20 Episode results for "Irving"

DYNASTIES 2 - The Irvings

Commons

38:29 min | 11 months ago

DYNASTIES 2 - The Irvings

"The Episode of Commons is also brought to you by Lisa beautifully designed in handcrafted mattresses. Lisa believes that comfortable quality mattress can help transform your bedroom into into place actually worth spending time in their phone technologies engineer to relieve pressure from Your Body and contour to you so that you can get the best night's sleep possible if you've been putting off getting a new mattress now is the perfect time to make the change because Lisa's offering ten percent off on their website for more information go to Lisa Dot. Ca That's that's L. E. A. Dot ca this absurd of calms has brought to you in part by fresh books account as a huge time suck and no one wants to do it so why not not make it easy on yourself fresh books the cloud accounting software that makes it simple to keep track of your invoices and payments and everything else to get a thirty day free trial head over to fresh rush books dot com slash Commons and enter Commons and the how did you hear about us section just a quick warning this episode contains contains descriptions of self harm and suicidal idealization that may not be suitable for all listeners and we're going to start with the story of how one man's lying is screwed a city out of tens of of millions of dollars. The year is two thousand and five in the city of Saint John New Brunswick is in trouble now Saint John is an industrial title town but one of its most important industries shipbuilding was pretty much dead. The population has been declining for years and the city's budget was teetering on the edge of collapse so an irving oil approach the mayor of Saint John with a proposal he was keen to listen irving oil owned the refinery and Saint John and was one of the city's most important employers and they'd come to a deal with a Spanish energy company to build a liquefied natural gas terminal on a big chunk of land land that Irving oil owned the project would have been a massive seven hundred fifty million dollar investment but irving oil told the mayor Saint John that the project couldn't happen unless the city gave them a massive break on their property taxes. The project just wouldn't be profitable otherwise and the Spanish energy company would be forced to walk away the mayor entered into secret negotiations with Kenneth Irving the CEO of Irving Oil Kenneth is a third generation irving. He's tall a little bit nerdy and had a reputation as a smart kind manager but the Irving's are tough negotiators and Kenneth was no exception exception. The secret talks were tents and they lasted months and then one day the mayor of Saint John Approach City counsel and told them the news he'd he'd offered the irving's a deal they would only have to pay five hundred thousand dollars a year on the most valuable piece of property in the city for twenty five years and here's the kicker if city council didn't take the deal by midnight that day the project was dead and that massive Ellen g terminal the city needed would never be built. The city was giving up over two hundred million dollars in tax revenue. You get this built but they were desperate for the Investment City Council approved the deal unfortunately for the residents of Saint John a few years later they discovered that they had been screwed irving coming along with a multi million dollar twenty five year taxdeal at can't afford in two thousand and five after convincing city council the financial margins on the project were so thin and can only afford to pay five hundred thousand dollars a year in property tax less than ten percent of the going rate but according to confidential documents. It's about Canada port released by earnings partner in the deal Repsol suggests that the deal was a lot richer than saint. John was told the project would have been profitable even without the tax breaks to many Saint John Residents it looked like irving oil had lied to them the Irving's walked away with killing and deprived of port city of tens of millions of dollars of tax revenues that could've helped out its citizens here city councillor Jerry low speaking to the CBC see that's where we're hurting so bad right. There's a lot of money being made of their Anna's not coming our way for the mayor of Saint John One of the most humiliating parts parts of this whole saga was the quilt that he'd given the press on the day that the deal was approved quote I asked him very clearly and looked into his eyes and said Kenneth Breath you look into my eyes and tell me if this does not happen. Will this facility not be here and he very clearly said yes. It's true on quote well Kenneth Size had lied but when it comes to business the Irving's are ruthless and Kenneth Irving was about to find out just how ruthless his own on family could be because even though at this moment he was one of the most powerful men in New Brunswick in just a few short years he'd lose it all in one of the most tragic ways imaginable. If you ever drive into Saint John New Brunswick you'll pass by Canada's biggest oil refinery and you're sure to see six royal blue letters emblazoned on six Willie Willie White storage tanks. I are fee high end sheet. That's how you know who runs tap hell. That's how you know who runs the whole Damn Province province for nearly a century the irving family's run new Brunswick like a feudal state. They're the largest landowners by far. There's the biggest players in forestry oil oil construction shipbuilding median so many other industries one in twelve new brunswickers well. They worked for the Irving's and that means if you yourself don't work for them. You probably have a family member. WHO does they own? Almost all of the newspapers and even the premier of the province himself is a former irving executive to the earnings what's best for their family and what's best for New Brunswick well. It's the same thing but while they're one of Canada's richest families New Brunswick is still the country's pours province so how does a single family so thoroughly dominate an entire province and what happens happens when that family starts to fracture and split apart at the seams. I'm Marsha man and from Canada land. This is Commons. This episode of calms also brought to you by Lisa Lisa mattresses that are not only comfortable but they also look great. These mattresses are handcrafted thoughtfully designed with you in mind. The LEESA mattress has three expertly designed layers that worked together to provide you with comfort and and support and Lisa's foam technology is engineer to relieve pressure from Your Body and contour to you so that you can get the best night's sleep possible but don't take my word for it. My co-producer Jordan just got a LEESA mattress Jordan. How is it treating you? It's great. It's comfortable came in a really small box which was Super Fun and Weird and slowly kind of inflated ended a so much better than my previous mattress. I didn't know how terrible my last mile was until I got this mattress. Lisa also so donates one mattress for every ten that they sell which is pretty amazing in Canada. They are about to donate five hundred mattresses to the Canadian Mental Health Association in Partnership Partnership with the Bay Leesamattress also come with one hundred nights risk-free trial and free shipping anywhere in Canada so there's really no excuse not to try one out leases says available in seventy eight locations at the bay as well as Lisa Dot. Ca If you've been putting off getting a new mattress now is the perfect time to make the change these Lisa's offering ten percent off on their website for more information go to Lisa Dot ca that's L. E. S. A. Dot. CA This upset of calms is brought to you in part by fresh books cloud accounting software. That's designed to save you time every time you use it. It's so simple so easy to use that fresh quick says Israel actually save you around sixteen hours a month on administrative tasks and paperwork. You know what you can do with sixteen hours. You could listen to Classic Ninety Swedish Euro dance country hit cotton eyed Joe exactly three hundred times and I mean exactly like down to the second and that's all thanks to fresh books with fresh rush books. You can have professional looking invoices in thirty seconds and fresh books has double entry accounting reports and tools that will help you plan for the future and evaluate the current the health of Your Business and even better you'll have access to great canadian-based customer service to try it out for free head over to fresh books dot com slash Commons. That's fresh books dot com slash Commons Kenneth Irving was the heir apparent to the most important piece of the Irving Empire in the nineteen nineties. He was the number two man at Irving oil and he was poised to take over for his father Arthur who had run irving oil since the seventies now the irving's rarely speak to the press but one exception was nine hundred ninety. CBC Documentary in which they all opened up Canada building is the number two man at earning oil answering only to his father Arthur one day the entire oil business will be his run and he knows the refinery is the key you would all you know my cousins and although we get along very well and I one session level. We're very different people of because we all run very different businesses. It doesn't it doesn't pose any issue. Kenneth was born to be in the refining business from a very young age. He was trained to be a model irving employee and I I can remember the the shaking hand drill that my grandfather used to make my brother and I do before he took his through the paper mills or the refinery on the weekend. We'd have to practice yeah and shake hands saying how do you do you know it was important in for him for us to be very polite and respectful of anyone we met along the way when he was seventeen his grandfather and the Family Patriarch Casey Irving which is short for Kenneth Colin asked his grandson to take his middle name he was assigned signed one day the younger irving take over irving oil the crown jewel of the family empire. Kenneth worked his way through entry level oil jobs both in New Brunswick get an Alberta and he moved up quickly in the company he would take over operations of Irving oil itself in two thousand but his father Arthur Irving was still still the man in charge are irving is an imposing man who speaks his mind and we want successful. We want to have the sense of accomplishment and doing good job. That's it. We're not in it for anything else. We want employ a lot of good people. We want our employees to be proud of us. We want to be proud of them. mm-hmm and we want to keep going down the road making this part of the country a better place to live. That's our dry everyday everyday everyday and dot quit the irving's including Arthur and Kenneth always professed their love for New Brunswick and the maritimes. Here's Arthur again pretty much saying he'll fight anyone who takes a shot at the maritimes. I enjoy this part of the world. It's part of the world I'd rather live in Americans. It's alright trusted joke amongst ourselves about the maritimers you know but when somebody takes us on for they've picked on the wrong bit we'll defend you will defend the Americans landed Candida everytime and that's it so it's straight up with plus. You get what you see. The relationship between softspoken Kenneth the heir apparent and his hard driving Father Arthur is going to reshape the irving empire forever but before we get to that we need to better understand the irving empire for what it is because unlike anything else in Canada in the irving empire was founded almost a century ago by Arthur's father Kenneth Call in irving who everyone just called Old Casey or Casey Ravine has done something very unusual. That's Bruce Linsey. He's a journalist the author of the thieves of Bay Street Street and the I guess that I ever had on the show most companies focus on one area K. serving decided he was going to build his empire era many sectors he adopted what was called vertical integration which was if you're going to publish a newspaper well why not only newspaper but own the pulp and a paper mill that produced a newsprint and also owned the forests and growth would you basically own the whole production but what that's given him complete ironclad control over region and as the empire solidifies when it just expands into the next so he he is a very unique corporate entity in that regard where did he was a young man of the Nineteen Thirties Casey Irving started at and business by selling cars then it was gasoline and then it was transportation then building buses and making airplane veneer then it was forestry than mill then steal than shipping than concrete then ship shipbuilding and then it was the refinery by the nineteen sixties Casey Irving was the most powerful man in New Brunswick by far into Brunswick Casey Irving blamed for just about anything wrong with the province perhaps because he owns so much of it something like four hundred million dollars worth. KC See inspired a kind of all in many new brunswickers just listen to this clip from that CBC documentary my cameraman and I were on an assignment who were traveling down the street and all of a sudden you hit the brakes full the u-turn pulled up to this curb instead bears KC. I looked out the window across the street and this is what I saw off an elderly man wearing a black beret walking along the street. Cameraman's response was part off part reverence. It was the first time time I saw the deep emotional response. Many maritimers have to the Irving's. That's how many new brunswickers view the Irving's third both feared and revered appeared in the Nineteen Seventies Casey Irving did something that at the time was pretty unprecedented he moved all the businesses to Bermuda in order to avoid paying Canadian taxes. This is among the outrageous things but your veins is under the vast amounts of money of Canadian taxpayers money but then they they scroll it away in offshore taxis and while he spent half the year in the Caribbean he appointed his three sons to take over respective parts of the Empire Arthur Arthur Irving who you heard from earlier was given irving oil the most prestigious business of the lot Casey Irving died in nineteen ninety-two but the power of the serving family didn't die with him even today the Irving still get what they want out of government at almost every turn. It's the perfect example where called hold captured state. This is where the purpose of government is to serve the interests of corporations to really understand understand the power that the irving's wheeled New Brunswick. Let's just take a look at one of the many industries they dominate forestry net forestries always been one of the most important parts of the provincial economy cure. CBC reporter Jacques Putra speaking at a candidate Len live show in twenty fifteen new Brunswick essentially began as what one author called it the timber colony I mean it was built around cutting wood and sawing wood and using wood to build ships and other things lately in recent years many mills have closed and what has happened is that has taken over more of the leases that were abandoned by some of the other companies that closed their meals and left so I think it's fair to say that irving now occupies a bigger piece of the hi than they ever did before and consequently governments feel a certain pressure to accommodate them because their meals are scattered around the province and so there are a lot of local communities that feel they depend on those jobs. The Irving's don't own most the land that they harvest their trees from its crown land that belongs to the province which then leases at to the irving's but the province has to balance the need for jobs today with the need to maintain the forests for future generations and since two thousand one the Irving's pushed the government to significantly increase the amount of land that could be logged. They commissioned a report that pretty much said it was in the provinces interest to do just that but environmentalists smallwood lot owners and a lot of everyday people pushed back the issue became hugely controversial in a new Brunswick and the conservative premier at the time Bernard Lord delayed making any decision instead commissioning more studies but in two thousand six Lord lost election to the Liberal Sean Graham and almost instantly Graham government brought the issue giving the Irving's more forests backup. They argue that all those people who argued against the force for Sri planned didn't really represent the public his government instead point two to five thousand letters. The government had been sent in support of Moore logging. There was only only one problem three thousand three hundred of the cards came from Irving employees or contractors. Another big chunk were created by pressing a button on a website called more trees are the answer which was run by the Irving's Ole told there are only nine actual letters that either weren't form letters or didn't come from irving employees the debate about how to use the forests lasted until twenty fourteen through numerous governments both liberal and conservative but at the end of the day the Irving's got what they wanted. The government agreed to open up a lot more area to forestry and the biggest beneficiary was the Irving's forestry company that we should note that the Irving's did build a pretty big male after they got this concession one of the main ways that the irving's Irving's get what they want is by threaten to shut down their operations or move them elsewhere. Here's Bruce Lindsey again is basically a form of economic blackmail and and because the political class is so weak in that region they cave the reason they keep using is because it works because sure enough either the provincial or municipal the governments will cave and give them what they want. In critics of Irving business practices well. They've sometimes found themselves out of a job. Take the issue of glyphosate. It's one of the most commonly used pesticides in the world and in recent years it's been credibly linked to cancer but in order for the type of forestry that the Irving's due you to be as profitable as possible. They need to use glyphosate when the chief medical officer New Brunswick began to look at the health impacts of of of glyphosate the province fired her this happened in twenty fifteen and all the province has denied that they fired her because she was looking into life. They've never ver- provided an actual reason why she was terminated and she was given seven hundred twenty thousand dollars in severance. She's not the only person to be fired while they were studying inglesias eight Rod Cumberland is a scientist who is employed by the new Brunswick government to study deer populations he described the deer population being wiped out and was because of the spraying of glyphosate because the glyphosate destroys hardwood trees which deer feed on so essentially they were being starved out of existence and he wrote a report and nobody cared and government didn't do anything about it typically because this again would mean challenging the Irving's and use of glyphosate Cumberland individually left government employees and went public about his research but that didn't exactly sit well with various levels of government and the forestry lobby an alliance was formed formed between the provincial and federal governments the Irving's and other forestry companies to counter Cumberland's claims about glyphosate and they set up a website they hired scientists from the federal government to do tours on New Brunswick and Nova Scotia to basically try to argue. There's nothing wrong with glyphosate and so there was a complete open collusion between the two levels of government. Andy Irving's to fight a educated wildlife life biologists who is raising legitimate concerns about the use of glyphosate and just this year Cumberland was fired from his teaching position at the Maritime College of Forestry Technology. He believes it was because of his advocacy on the issue of glyphosate which the college does deny here he is speaking to the CBC after his dismissal not opposed to the forest industry. I'm not opposed to you know there's all kinds of ways that we do forced her in the province and you know but at the same time there's you know my thing always has been. We need to look look at all the science I'd be lying if I said there was not pressure exerted in the past from different organizations basically two sides of this issue you know there's the old outdated aided stuff that was done short-term very quickly sponsored mostly by industry that says glyphosate. Is You know you can drink it then. There's the whole other side that says that it's very problematic. Science says what science says and there's a lot there former executive director the institute Gerald Redmond agrees with Cumberland he told Bruce Lindsey that forced re representatives on the board including those from Irving businesses headed out for Cumberland now. Jd Irving Ltd totally denies that they in any way interfered with the institute or got Rod Cumberland fired now that you've mm sat through our lecture at the last two decades of New Brunswick forestry policy. It's time to get back to that most essential part of the Irving Empire Irving oil what you're hearing is a nineteen ninety ad for serving gas stations and because irving means people and people means Irving. Let's get back to the people at the heart of this story specifically a father and son as we told you earlier Arthur Irving had been writing irving oil since the nineteen seventies seventies curious again in that CBC documentary talking about Irving Oil's market share in New Brunswick Arthur Irving runs irving oil elbow initially initially he wanted his son Kenneth do all the talking for the company for the purposes of this project. You couldn't resist telling off a reporter who suggested to him. The urban markets is inside. The maritimes might be a little big bag with when you're talking about the thing. Is that market share Michael Chair you know the thing is if you have ten percent of the market down here in the office and what happened to you you go broke that means you're good to nobody and Kenneth. Arthur Arthur son was his chosen successor. Arthur candidates relationship had always been close but contentious. Here's Kenneth Irving looking back in a video that he produced Houston 2017 my dad and I had a complicated relationship a really intense relationship there was a lot of very good things in my relationship with my dad things that I still memories that I still hold very dear. You know we went on many canoe trips together. He was my best man at my my wedding Arthur appointed his son Kenneth to be CEO of Irving oil in two thousand and Kenneth Relish the chance to build on his family's legacy you know to be in Irving oil was was very special because it was my grandfather's company he when he started his out on his his own when he built his first company he moved away from home and moved to Saint John Away from to and you know he started Irving oil painting twenty four th in in I was in his company I was you know I was going to work in going into what once was once his office you know and it it was more than just running a business for me. It was the responsibility felt more important than that. I felt I had a responsibility to the community a d. I felt a responsibility to the people that I worked with. It was incredible. How was I going to match that while he was in charge irving oil thrived between two thousand and two thousand eight the value of the company quadrupled by some estimates but well Kenneth was respected within the company company? There's one man who couldn't seem to please his father. Arthur Arthur has always been hard man when he divorced his first wife Life Joan carlile she discovered almost everything their home belong to irving oil significantly reducing the property that she was entitled to and after the divorce the children children including Kenneth stayed with Arthur and rarely had the chance to even speak with their mother well Kenneth C over Oil Arthur still chair of the board a source within the company told the Global Mail that quote. I've never seen anything like it in a corporate setting. He didn't hide his disdain for the path. We were on in two thousand eight. The great recession struck and the price of oil collapsed irving oil was now in hard times and Arthur's. I returned to awards his son. Kenneth Kenneth was harboring a secret from his father. Since his twenties Kenneth suffered from depression. It was something he hadn't shared with almost anyone especially not as father as the business faltered Kenneth felt that he was failing his dad and I really felt that I had let my father down on my my family down. I felt I felt terrible about myself. I hated myself a loathed myself. I couldn't couldn't stand being in my skin. He became obsessed with making his father happy something he couldn't seem to do but as as I grew older and became more recognized for for certain things it didn't it didn't it didn't bring happiness to my dad and I became very overly consumed by wanting him to feel good about the achievements for success that I was having and and and I was having the opposite effect and that was that was really hard for me to to to process and I should warn you that things from here on out are about to get quite dark and may not be suitable for all listeners while he was trying to steer the company through tough economic times and deal with his father questioning his every decision Kenneth began to hurt himself a lot of people turn to drugs or alcohol alcohol or and I I ended up getting involved with self harm that hurting myself created a pain that would distract me from the intense feelings. I was having a full-time and it's even really strange for me to tell you because I never thought I'd be that guy. Kenneth would stare at himself in the mirror plagued with self loathing and then he'd raised his fist in punch himself in the face repeatedly until the flesh around his eye was blackened. It was hard for me when I looked at the mirror in the morning to to accept myself to see the state that my my face had become a hard myself and my daughters were looking at my face face. I still think of it now and I still feel like I was letting them down not note from the outside. It looked like he had everything but Kenneth was suffering. Immensely Um it doesn't it doesn't really make sense. I considered myself all the way up to this point in my life and and and most especially now very very lucky person I was given enormous opportunity. I was blessed to had a great marriage and and I have really close relations with my four daughters have lifelong friends. I had a dream. I'm job at lived in New Brunswick. Come on it was awesome. how could someone that's so blessed want to you know just think that that's a rational option defined piece really early in the thought of ending ending my life yeah it was difficult. Kenneth tried to hide his depression from his father and from the company but at a certain point became too much and he finally asked his wife Tasha's for help and I had had the courage that morning when I woke up in Saint John to tell her I said don't don't leave me alone and when I told her that she didn't need to say anything she knew but I I it. It didn't get better. Uh it started to get worse for few months. He carried on working and traveling but he's never left alone again. Then one day in April twenty ten he hurt himself again and it became clear that he needed more drastic help a psychiatrist came to the House and recommended Kenneth Check himself into a facility for zone safety so he decided to leave but not before visiting irving oil one last time with his face still horribly bruised Kenneth showed his psychiatrist tryst around his office joking to please that he'd hit his face on a door. It didn't fool anyone then departed for Boston to check into a psychiatric award a few months later Kenneth would have his last face to face conversation with his father. He won't say what they spoke about but soon the company audience that Kenneth Irving was no longer. CEO of Irving oil yesterday's news that Kenneth Irving take an indefinite leave of absence from the company definitely finally started people talking about what was going to happen next with the corporation. We still have no independent confirmation of why Kenneth leaving the company owned newspapers quoted an email from the CEO talking about health setback Kenneth was replaced CEO not long after except for one minute phone call can it's father Arthur has never spoken to him. Again and Kenneth has never even stepped foot in Saint Johnson's then besides to pack up his house. It took Kenneth a longtime to return any kind of normalcy in while he was struggling Kenneth went to court in Bermuda against the rest of his family. What we know about the court case is truly early heartbreaking while they're still some dispute about what the case was really about? Kenneth made a few conditions for any kind of settlement. He wanted a retirement party at Irving oil that would acknowledge contributions to the company he wanted a family meeting with his siblings who also wasn't speaking to the time attended by professional mediator gator and he wanted the settlement to force his father to come to a family activity with him. None of that happened Eventually Kenneth did get the help he needed and today he's in touch with his siblings again he he seems to have a happy life with his wife and daughters while he isn't involved in any of the irving businesses anymore he now has his own business that has to do fixing urban congestion and he made that video that you've been hearing from spoke to the Globe and Mail in order to open up about his story in the hopes it might help other people who are suffering from depression. He's tried to reconcile missile with his father sending him multiple letters but Arthur has never applied Kenneth says that he doesn't blame his father for what happened to him so while it might seem kind of harsh things went between my dad and I don't I don't blame him for for anything. I mean it's it's it's my own life to to take care of but at the end of that interview with the Globe and Mail reporter reporter Eric Anderson Asks Him One last time about whether or not he cares what his father thinks quote. I can't think about that. He told her I won't crawl under a rock doc. If you can't love me maybe he will respect me and then Kenneth wept openly today. Arthur Irving is on speaking terms with most of his children children from his first marriage instead. It appears that his daughter Sarah from a second marriage is poised to take over the business Kenneth Irving has been undeniably brave when it comes to telling his story it's hard not to look at the story of Kenneth and Arthur Irving and see the sun as a straightforward good guy and Arthur some kind of villain. Things are never so simple after all Kenneth Irving is the same man you heard about I bet at the top of the show the one who looked into the eyes of the mayor of Saint John and promise at the terminal couldn't be built unless the city gave them tens of millions of dollars off of their property taxes tax that wasn't true and it cost taxpayers of Saint John a lot of money money that could have been used for fire services police roads is in public housing and that was just one of the many examples of the government largess that's been handed to the Irving's over the years according to a CBC investigation the provincial government has four gone over three hundred eighty million dollars in property taxes over the last forty years and a huge chunk of that winter serving businesses. That's money that could have been used on mental health services to help people who can't afford the kind of treatment that Kenneth Irvin God I lives he grew up in New Brunswick and he's seen the province to K- under the irving's domination New Brunswick is the poorest province in Canada as the lowest median income. There's a weird provincial pride that this corporation is run by New Brunswick hers and owned by this New Brunswick Shanley. What they don't really see is a is a parasitic outfit in a completely parasitic they take so much wells and have taken so much wealth out of the province and return turn so little the Irving's are still the most powerful people in New Brunswick but things are changing for one? It's no longer a single company. In the two thousands the the three sons of Casey Irving split the business between themselves and attitudes towards earrings may also be changing even though they still control the newspapers social media. He is out of their grasp. The Irving Dynasty has lasted for a hundred years whether it will last another hundred still an open question doc. That's your episode of Commons for the week this episode relied and reporting done by Bruce Lindsey Z. Jacques Putra Aaron Anderson and many others now this episode dealt with some pretty serious stuff especially near the end and if you feel like you may need someone to talk to you can Cole or text suicide prevention support at Crisis Service Canada at one eight three three four five six four five six six. There are available able twenty four seven that number again is one eight three three four five six four five six six. If you're looking for some election coverage make make sure to subscribe to oppo which going weekly right now. If you WANNA get in touch with us you can tweet us at Kennedy Commons that C. N. S. You can also email me Arshi at Kennedy Show Dot Com. This episode was produced by myself and Jordan Cornish are managing editor is Kevin Sexton and her music is by Nathan Burly and Kevin Evans Sexton. If you like what we do please help us make this show you can support us and get ad free podcasts by going to Patriot dot com slash slash

Arthur Arthur Irving Kenneth Kenneth irving oil irving Kenneth Irving New Brunswick irving Irving Empire Irving oil Irving Oil Kenneth Father Arthur Irving Empire Canada Casey Irving Commons Jd Irving Ltd Lisa Lisa Andy Irving CBC Saint John Kenneth Size
Let It Roll: Irving Berlin Defined American Music

Rock N Roll Archaeology

55:32 min | 5 months ago

Let It Roll: Irving Berlin Defined American Music

"Welcome to let it. Roll the podcast about how why. Popular Music happens. Hosted BY NATE. Wilcox follow the letter will podcast on twitter at let it roll cast a check out our website at let it roll podcast com. Let it roll is a pentium podcast. And you can listen to all the other great champion podcasts at www dot had the podcast dot com today. Nate welcomes author. James Kaplan to discuss his book Irving Berlin New York generals. James tells nate about the legendary songwriters fifty year career of Alexander's ragtime band to any. Get your gun pop in those ear buds in joy. It's fun to let it. Roll host Nate Wilcox today. I'm joined by James Kaplan author of Irving Berlin New York Genius James. Welcome light to be here. Thanks for having sure and this is a really nice book on a big topic. I mean Irving Berlin astrum. Kern said doesn't have a place in American music. He is American music and at least up to the nineteen fifties. That is absolutely the case. I mean this guy had a career from nineteen o nine still active all the way up to nineteen sixty six had a hit play in the early fifties an incredible random and nobody in the modern era except may be. Paul McCartney could even be comparable. Yes I draw. A lot of comparisons actually between Lennon McCartney and Irving Berlin very similar work ethics ver very similar of brilliance at constructing songs and a lot of similarities in the way that constructed songs and yet unlike. Mccartney who had never ten incredible years and and you know Lennon had another five years or so and McCartney's maybe had another ten. I mean Burland kept it up and was at the top of his game through the teens through the twenties answered the challenge of Gershwin Kern and the the modern Broadway musical that integrates his story with the songs all the way up. You know into 'em beyond World War Two. It's it's just an incredible achievement. And he's just a Roy. Likable Guy and reading. This book really brings that across. I mean this is a guy with what you call an innate moral compass and avoid the temptation of most of the temptations of fame and money to an unbelievable degree. How do you explain? It's true And but I would I would I I. I would like to be very very careful about About emphasizing is yes his his high degree of morality and ethics and Pointing out at the same time that he was in a business a business that remains extremely competitive full of sharp elbows and nobody was more competitive and sharp elbowed then Berlin. He had a keen eye for the best business opportunities. He was sharply competitive and he could be very tough. Absolutely analysis. You know found his own music company very early on in his career. I think he had maybe two or three hits by the time he finds found his own company and there was a founding member of ask cap the publishing union that you know brought all the songwriters together and collect the royalties and BMI comes along in the forties to compete with it. But essentially you know Irving Berlin found co-founded modern music publishing yes. He was really present at the creation of the American songbook. And in your book. You talk about your own personal sort of discovery of Berlin and ties in with with the The New York theme that you were working as an intern for the New Yorker I'm out of the title wrong. But you're on the junior capacity at the New Yorker. When I I used to I used to handle a now. Outmoded machine called a typewriter I. I was an editorial typist at the New Yorker and Kids today don't know what they're missing with those IBM Z. Oh and but this was one song. The first song that you bring up in the book was one. I hadn't been familiar with which was very early. Irving Berlin strong and I hadn't realized he had recorded performances. But you found a record going back to nineteen o nine of Irving Berlin Singha Sonko called. Oh how that could love what what you know. What fascinates you about that recording. Well the first thing that fascinated me about that recording was how unbelievably old it was. I didn't even know. They made records in nineteen nine anti ear. This record that despite the hisses and pops inevitably that came through in the reproduction process and let us not forget that That went phonograph. Records were first made in that very early. Nineteen hundreds there was. No such thing is elect electronic microphone. These were made Singer sang or orchestras played through the bell of a gigantic speaking horn. Beg a Cone Light Assembly. That translated the vibrations of the boys are the music To a needle that etched the vibrations into a wax disc That was then That was then converted into a SHELLAC discs. That could be played on. This new fangled instrument called a phonograph. So all of this process was necessary and yet piercing through. This process was the unbelievably light. Witty engaging voice of a kind of genius who is coming up with this very funny popular songs very funny take on the silly ethnic songs of the early nineteen hundreds. The title itself gives you a hand. How German could love was about a very curvy? German lady who is singer was infatuated with and it's such a such a beguiling performance and in the book you call it modernism on the hoof startling. Formal innovation smuggled into into a seemingly banal idiom elaborate on that a little bit. What does that mean modernisers? This twenty years twenty one year old. He's twenty one years old and I ask you or any of the listeners. To think of themselves at twenty one I think of myself at twenty one when I could just about time I shooed. This is a guy who's twenty one years old who is not only a fully engaging with the art of songwriting. But he's he is making fun of it. He is both. He is both succeeding in it and Satirizing it at the same time and so again back in the very early twentieth century you had these waves. Upon ways of immigrants arriving in America Ellis Island and as a result of that kind of in reaction to it and also paying homage to it there was a great fad for ethnic songs songs written in the voice Voices OF GERMAN AMERICANS ITALIAN AMERICANS JEWISH JEWISH AMERICANS AFRICAN AMERICANS Kind of making fun of these minorities but Celebrating them at the same time. And this was a song that was sort of done in imposs- style with an own pas band playing in the background but at the same time Mel Brooks could have written the song. It is is just hilarious. So it's Berlin not only writing ethnic song but having his way with it and showing how brilliant He promises to be. And let's hear a little bit of it. This is Irving Berlin singing German. Could WHOA got speed German at all by the Durban key? Franklin off for me getting more yet was irving Berlin himself singing Ohio that German could love very song in a very rare recording of irving Berlin as a performer. And I thought it was important to include that because frequently we start the Irving Berlin story restart talking about Irving Berlin with Alexander's ragtime band and it's notable to me that he had multiple hits notably So when my wife goes to the country and my wife has gone to the country that fit more into that sort of after the ball or sidewalks of New York era or the George Cohen. Yet Yankee doodle Dandy solid saying that he would supersede and sort of blow away with Alexander's ragtime band. Can you talk about that transition from the early Tin Pan Alley to the ragtime era and how Berlin pity is that well? I think the first thing we want to do is is say. Very carefully and emphatically that ragtime was rank. Time is a lot of controversy. About ragtime and ragtime has a lot of a number of definitions but by the definition of The great genius Scott Joplin who was kind of the The procreate the originator of ragtime Alexander's ragtime band is not a ragtime song at all. It's a rather it is a song about. Ragtime is a song about a band leader named Alexander an African American bandleader named Alexander. And it's a sort of. It's a march really. It's IT IT IS A. It is a call to participate to enjoy to sing along to dance along to ragtime and it is kind of A. It's kind of A. It has a quantum leap from anything Berlin or anybody else had written floor. It comes along at precisely the right moment. One thousand nine eleven only two years after. Oh how that German could love for. Loon is now an old man of twenty three rather than just twenty one and he has been writing songs for a few years. He is making very good money writing songs. Such grant money that he's now able to go on vacation to Florida. He's on his way to Penn Station to take the The Orange Blossom Limited down to Florida a train down to Florida. That's how you traveled in those days but he has a couple of hours before train time so he stops by the office and he has a snatch of song that's playing in his head and here. We should note that Berlin Aerobic Music in quotation marks. He didn't know how to write music or read music. He had songs in his head. He would work with a musical secretary. Somebody A man. Who would sit at piano? Berlin would stand next to him. In the -TUNI- had in mind and the guide the piano would play the notes and begin to harmonize it play chords that Berlin would either approve or disapprove of. Tell the guy that change. He went to the office and he wrote down the lyrics to a song that it had in his head and he had the musical secretary. Play it and memorialize. It many went on vacation to Florida. This whole thing. This stop by the office to write down the song to take down the notes in the words of it took maybe twenty minutes. He goes on vacation. He comes back and this song is put into sheet music and it is then recorded On the brand new technology of phonograph records. Just coming just coming in in Nineteen Oh eight. Nineteen Nine. Nineteen ten and nineteen eleven. And because of the sheet music of Alexander's ragtime band and they'd phonograph record of Alexander's ragtime band. They twenty-three-year-old Irving Berlin becomes not just a national sewa celebrity but an international celebrity the sheet music and the phonograph records travel across the Atlantic to England to France to Spain to Italy to Germany. Suddenly this song is playing everywhere. Berlin gets a commission to come across to the London. Hippodrome and performance a show They pay him twenty thousand pounds which is equivalent of two million dollars today. He's twenty three. Come over and be in the show. He gets out of his He sales across the Atlantic. He gets out of his horse drawn cab at the. Savoy Hotel in London and the kid who selling newspapers on the corner is whistling. Alexander's ragtime band. This is the beginning of the American Century. It is a huge epoch. Making event this song. It turns Berlin at twenty three into an international celebrity millionare's and I'm glad you brought up the point about this isn't a ragtime song and and and I thought you cover that very well but it does as you call it. It is A joyous tribute to African American musical genius the first great and lasting one in American popular song from a Jewish American musical genius. And and that's just a beautiful elegant way to summarize what's going on here in this Conversation between jewish-american songwriters and performers and African American songwriters and performers is something. That's going to mark the twentieth century as you know kind of the American Century in it's commonly acknowledged to be America's great contribution to the arts. Yes and it's not always easy or an uncomplicated conversation. There are There are hurt feelings. A lot of the time Scott Joplin himself felt that Berlin had ripped off a piece of melody from his Opera Trim. Initia- and put it into Alexander's ragtime band and actually tried to sue Berlin. The suit never got off the ground and I think actually the accusation was was kind of baseless but Scott Joplin was a tragic genius and it was a sad moment in his life. It was an ongoing conversation from the very early. Nineteen hundreds through the teens into the twenties thirties forties fifties and beyond with rock and roll. Blues are and be A lot of of course many great African American innovators and and a lot of jewish-american innovators involved and this notion Berlin being sued by Joplin and the faculty had to have a musical secretary to help him find the cords which he heard in his head he knew when it was right or wrong. He just didn't have vocabulary to find the court he was hearing and he could only play the piano and f sharp like you said he had a transposing piano. I think this that in combination with these rumors that he was also hit with rumors that he had purchased the song from a Little Negro boy and and that he you know catch the way they put it in was a little colored boy. Yes yes and so talk about that a little bit. I mean 'cause you know as a product of the Rock era of learned about the great American songbook figures you know retrospectively and through you know going back from Frank Sinatra Ella Fitzgerald and others and you know. It's obvious that George Gershwin was this musical genius who could ride operas. Rhapsodies and contend with the European concert tradition on its own terms. You know and Rodgers. Richard Rogers is clearly this melodic genius and Jerome Kern and others and Berlin always has this. I don't know people sort of underestimate berendt Berlin because Alexander Wolcott has his first. Biographer called him a creative ignoramus. I mean there's no there's no book learning now. The guy didn't wasn't a great conversationalist he wasn't a musical master and yet if you look at his accomplishments he could go toe to toe with any of those guys anytime and you can put. Berlin's over a up against Kern or Gershwin or Rogers or Lennon McCartney anybody in the twentieth century at least as a composer do you think he's overcome that sort of discrimination against him because he wasn't a trained musician because he wasn't a well. Educated man and a brilliant conversationalist will he had a lot to overcome it as I said before. He looked at a lot of competition to to face up to again. The songwriting business was incredibly competitive and a lot of the rumors about Berlin. I would say probably all the rumors about Berlin hiring somebody some kid to write his tunes or or some black musician to write his Jones restarted by envious fellow songwriters. Who just weren't having success. Who didn't have the kind of flows out of your head in the middle of the night? Genius that Berlin hat now at the same time. I talk about that genius. We have to talk about preliminary unbelievable work ethic he would he tended to right through the night he tended to start maybe Eleven o'clock or twelve midnight work through to five or six. Am and he liked to say a couple of things. One thing he said was that he of that writing songs was easy. All he had to do was stare piano until drops of blood forms on his forehead. He laboured he labored so hard for simplicity in his songs. Simplicity was everything to him. The other thing he liked to say was he wrote more bad songs than anybody. Berlin was a guy who wrote fifteen hundred published. Some fifteen hundred songs in his lifetime and as he freely confessed Throughout his career a lot of them were dogs. But it takes a huge amount of work Lennon McCartney would attest to that to come up with a really good song. And you have to turn out some crappy songs along the way a lot of crappy songs come up with the with the cream that rises to the top. And let's go ahead and hear Alexander's ragtime band this version by Bing crosby and Al Jolson from the nineteen forty Saddam. Think this is what it sounded like a nineteen eleven of As we already played every Berlin song from nineteen o nine if the audience had enough of the really early days. But here's been crosby Al Jolson having a lot of fun with Alexander's ragtime band dull Alexander's ragtime on and hear come on and best band in. Gayton play a bugle Powell. Having had before so natural road you WANNA GO TO WAL test ban out on down. Come on along come on along that take you by the hand up and that was the Great Bing Crosby and Al Jolson having fun with every Berlin Alexander's ragtime band and I think that's one thing I wanted to get across is that we have such a compressed view of the past In in twenty twenty. And even you know you're a boomer Magen extra bet. I think we tend to look at all of this music of the first half of the twentieth century through this lens of Frank Sinatra and Ella Fitzgerald and this sort of art song interpretation of what we call now the great American songbook. But I think it's very important to remember this wasn't the great American songbook in the nineteen twenties. These were the hits of the day. This was the currency this was pop pits and Berlin is having to do everything he can to compete with Gershwin and rutgers at all and as well as Louis Armstrong and bing crosby and and the specter of real jazz and he's got another hit you know we're GonNa we can't cover his whole career because it's just too much but I want to jump ahead to his confrontation. I wouldn't say confrontation but his triumph in the jazz era. Which was everybody's step and you call it. White Jazz explained that terminology little bit. Well Berlin new his abilities. He was confident in his abilities. One thing he said and he said it in Nineteen Fifteen. When he was twenty seven years old he said. I know rhythm and he was not kidding. He did understand rhythm when he wrote everybody step. He was writing a song that you syncopation very effectively. He would also use it. Effectively very effectively a few years later when he wrote the great putting on the Ritz If you listen to that song and then listen to it again just listened to where the where the beats fall and where the emphasis fall in that song. And you'll annual realize that Berlin really did no rhythm but the song everybody stuck as it was performed in the show was performed in and I think we also want to note that these songs of the great American Songbook were written almost entirely not as free standing songs but to a purpose for purpose for either songs or or movies for shows for musicals. Everybody step as it was performed in a in the show by a vocal trio called the brock sisters three young ladies from the South who sang in very tight harmony And they were white. They were black. was It was charming. It was delightful It remains delightful but it. It didn't have exactly what you would call so I think so took awhile to arrive in Berlin's music. I think it really took until Until probably until nineteen thirty three with Berlin and Moss Hart's Great Revue as thousands cheer and the great at the waters and African American. Who really made her debut Her Broadway debut in that show singing a song called Heatwave And she did it very sexily very easily and she did it the way it needed to be done. But there's a difference between everybody's step by the brock sisters and heat wave by a biathlon orders and he also wrote a song for waters called suppertime that talk about that. I mean that's probably the most socially conscious piece Berlin of Berlin's great songs that's probably the most socially conscious and a self conscious statement that he made. Yeah well this was a show The revue as thousands cheers was a genius idea by Moss. Hart and Early Berlin. It was a musical in the form of a newspaper and so their idea the great idea so great. It's hard to believe nobody had thought of it. Before was to mount a musical on Broadway stage in the form of a newspaper and it was it had a this show it had a society columnist gossip column. It has sports column sports page. It had it had the weather everything that a newspaper had. And each of these sections of the newspaper of the Fictional newspaper In the play as thousands cheer was ahead Berlin songs that were appropriate to that section the second act and and the the crowd it was the midst of the Depression and the people who could afford Broadway ticket. Were rich people. So that was an audience. Broadway audience full of wealthy people in join this The TIRICO sometimes sharply satirical Musical remains were used Feelings weren't spared but it was all in the in the spirit of good funds and this wealthy audiences enjoying the show and then came. The intermission man came. Act to an act to began with a cheeky. Little skit about Was slightly risque was about a young engaged couple on their wedding day and the peaking at the skit was that they are waking up together which was very daring escape back in nineteen thirty three well. That skit finished up and then a curtain descended and own. The curtain was printed a black big black headline that said unknown Negro Lynched by frenzied mobs and the audience If you've ever seen the producers the Mel Brooks movie when the Song Springtime for Hitler is Sung and they show a shot at the audience sitting with their mouths open. The audience must have looked like that that night as they are watching thousands cheer because this headline and then. Ethel waters presentation of this great song. That Berlin had written like nothing he'd ever written before because it is sung by the waters in the person of a wife waiting for her husband to come home but he's not gonna come home because he's been lynched. It's a powerful song terrific song it predated. Billie holiday's great strange fruit another song about lynching by ten years and it's just an amazing piece of history and amazing leap forward in Berlin career and it was even a statement to have ethel waters in the plan of first place that correct that is correct and three of her White Co stars. When the show was in tryouts out of town in Philadelphia refused to take their bows with Ethel waters a for one reason because she was black and Berlin heard about it and informed her three white coast ours that in in in that Because they are choosing not to take their bows with at the water's there would be no bows at all well. Three White co-stars changed their minds and they all took their bows together. And I wanted to get that in there because you know Berlin and like many members of his generation Benghazi when it comes to mind is not often. We don't often look back at Berlin and think of him as a civil rights hero and in part because of things like the Abraham number in a Holiday Inn with bing crosby which is one of his great cinematic triumphs. It's Irving Berlin Holiday Inn it ago sheets. Great deal with Hollywood he. He's got complete creative control. He's got being crosby. He's got white Christmas and he's Got White Christmas and you double my gun. They're not known. I was going to drop that card in the second bet. Sorry but that's okay but he. He's got white Christmas. He's got a song about Thanksgiving He's got a early version of Easter Bonnet and but also got this number Abraham with bing crosby singing in black face the whole a whole whole bunch of people singing in black face and crosby crosby who by the way revered revered black musicians was a great a great jazz singer himself at the beginning of his career revered black musicians I thought that the whole thing was just good fun and Berlin thought. The whole thing was just good fun. This was a different America. We we have to. We have to take care not to see that America Through the eyes of today's America. Or if we do we have to realize that it was a different place and so this is not to forgive black face which is unforgivable. But it's to understand That in those times it was. It was a tradition in which by the way to make things thoroughly complicated. Black performers often participated themselves. Now this is a whole complicated question. The question of black performers putting black face to perform to perform musical numbers but but it was It was a reprehensible reprehensible number reprehensible part of that movie and when they show the movie these days it's it's just it's simply been edited out. Yeah I turn it to my daughter recently. An add forgotten about Abraham and. We had to stop and have a whole teaching moment about that. You know she's six years old and and you know as very in Congress and Berlin even got in trouble at the time not for the black face but because the song used the term darkies yes and no because being a similar things like having Paul Robeson on his radio show and gone out of his way to call him Paul and have all Rogerson call him being which was very controversial at the time you know and get in the mills brothers on his Radio Show. I mean these guys have done a lot for integration and to advance the cause of African American musicians but the rules had changed under their feet. You know they're middle aged guys in their forties. And so I think some of us have seen the rules change in the me too. Era can sympathize a little bit. Yes The rooms were changing under their feet. They were doing the best they could. They had They had good hearts but they had old fashioned instincts. They were products of their time and their culture and they were products of an America that for the first The first fifty five years at least of the Twentieth Century was deeply unapologetically racist unapologetically. It was a wasp dominated. Culture White anglo-saxon Protestant Italian Americans weren't even officially considered legally considered white until the nineteen forties It was It was an awful time in so many ways and again as you put it so eloquently it. The the culture was changing under their feet. They adapted at the best they could and this happened to Pearland and numerous ways not just culturally but the business changed under his feet multiple times like you know. We talked about how he came up in the sheet music era and it was sheet. Music and records were a secondary promotional tool but primarily. There were selling sheet music for people play and sing around their piano at home and also to listen to the record. If to a record of of the song by multiple performers any hit song have multiple versions. Come out by many performers and then the radio comes along in the nineteen twenties when he's well into his career and in the Broadway musical changes and you got people like drome current producing things like show boat In the late twentieth. And you get Gershwin up in any again. You Know Poor Game Bass into a full. On modern musical opera and Berlin rises to the challenge. She moved to Hollywood in the early thirties. And Ed's funny that you brought I kind of came to him and you talk about this in the forward through the Marx brothers and he provided the songs for one of the early movies coconuts. Which is a terrible gig because you know song is GonNa Shine in Marx brothers comedy but he they rise through this and and eventually hooks up with Fred astaire and goes on this amazing run of hit absolute classics absolute classics and yet at the same time Berlin missed Broadway badly. He felt like a fish out of water. In Hollywood he adored astaire where the same brilliance that he did the same kind of intense work ethic that Berlin did any adored writing for a stair. But again you felt very much out of place in Hollywood. He missed New York badly he wanted. He wanted to go back to Broadway. Let's hear Fred Astaire to putting on the Ritz Avenue on that famous thoroughfare with their noses in the air hi hats and our colors fight spats and lots of dollars spending every far. Rwanda ta with your blue and you know where to go to. I don't you go. Where fashion sits putting on the Ritz types aware. That was Fred astaire singing irving Berlin triumphant putting on the Ritz and he does get back to Broadway but it's not until after World War. Two that he writes his first modern musical. Annie get your gun. Tell us a little bit about. It was a coincidence. That Berlin got. That GIG was a terrible coincidence because The show that was to have been called. Annie Oakley out was to have been written by Jerome Kern in conjunction with the brother. Six great brother sister librettist's and lyricists Herbert and Dorothy fields and jerome. Kern was walking to lunch in Manhattan without is to meet his wife for lunch. One day in one thousand nine forty five and suddenly dropped to the pavement on Park Avenue. with a brain hemorrhage and he died a week later So the great current is dead at an early age and a Richard Rodgers and Oscar Hammerstein. Who were were producing that show. They had written. They had ridden Oklahoma in South Pacific. And now they had they had sort of transition to becoming producers they were producing Annie Oakley. Try to think who they could hire to write to write the music for the show. And the first person everybody thought Rodgers Hammerstein and the fields is was early prevent. But the thing about Berlin was Two things one. His name was always above the title. He had achieved that level of of fame and power in Hollywood and on and on Broadway and to he wrote and should we should take note of this too. Because they're very few people stand alongside of them in this regard this Cole Frank Lesser but very few people he will use again lyrics. It's like double genius. Not just genius so But they persuaded themselves and they persuaded Berlin Anyway and Dorothy and Herbert fields very gracefully stepped back and let Berlin write the lyrics and Berlin went down to Atlantic City and produced a score of for Annie. Get your gun in some incredible time. Like two or three weeks the entire score and it was a great score from a guy at the beginning had no idea who any. Oakley was and said that he had he didn't know how to write hillbilly music but he wrote in you wrote a great and the phenomenon of that you're reading your account of that production and the fact that he almost pulled two of the great great songs from that number. There's nobody there's no business like show business and anything you can do. I could do better. Because he got mixed feedback from his his his team around him and that brings us back to the really big numbers. Which which Irving Berlin? You know as incredible catalogue that can match. Gershwin etc etc. Max. Any pop singer but he also wrote two songs y Christmas and God bless America that sort of transcend pop culture and inserted themselves right at the root of American culture. I mean God bless. America is basically the National Anthem and at various times there have been official attempts to replace the Star spangled banner with Berlin. Wouldn't have anything to do with that when he was alive But if I was a betting man I might bet even odds it in the next hundred years we change our mind and make God bless America. The official song and White Christmas is the most successful recording in history by a distance. You can't fathom it was a top ten hit for twenty straight years and the Bing crosby recording and what is the meaning of Irving Berlin this Jewish immigrant who comes in and writes these absolutely integral American songs and this was controversial people like Charles Lindbergh and the America First Movement? They were denouncing idea. That a Jew could write songs like this in America. Yes they didn't They they didn't They didn't denounce White Christmas. There was vigorous blowback against God bless America when it was introduced in nineteen thirty eight nine hundred thirty nine. This is a time. When there was a powerful America. First Movement a powerful movement to keep America out of the war that was beginning in Europe. It was only Pearl Harbor that drew us into the war. But for a buck for three years before that An awful lot of people in America didn't want to To go to war to shed a single drop was American blood to save England to save European Jews and And made a lot of powerful speeches on the radio and in In big big venues like Madison Square against Against any Any effort to to help out the Europeans or the British in this war and so when Berlin introduced God bless America and America took to it right away. America was so So joyous adhering most of America was so joyous at hearing this song but much of America at the same time. rebelled against hidden and yes said the nerve the nerve that this a Jewish immigrant had a writing a song about God. What did he know about God? God bless America. It was seen as an active presumption by a lot of people and I blew my segue there because the point I started make was Berlin. Kept God bless America in his drawer. Twenty years he routed the nineteen eighteen and thought. There are too many patriotic songs right now because of World War One and just the idea that seventy could I consider not not including. There's no business like show business in the play and then to sit on. God bless America for twenty years. I mean what? An incredible wealth of talent was there. Were there more treasures on earth in his archives. Do we know I mean. Have people sifted through his unpublished works in any comprehensive way? Are they even extent? Well there's A. There's a bank Irving Berlin collection the library of Congress in just about every piece of paper that he ever put his pen to. I think his I think that his music has been very thoroughly Gong through. I think we have isn't nate. What we have is such a Cornucopia of brilliance of greatness That I think it's greedy for us to ask for anything more so I don't think that unlike J D Salinger who knows who knows what What great were great salinger works might might still be published? I don't think there's any hidden mysterious lost Berlin work that he was too shy to published during his lifetime. I think that I think that better angels whether his or people who were working with him always came to the fore and persuaded him to publish what he shouldn't published. Well that's reassuring and I'm pretty happy with the amount of topics that we hit about his career and the industry but one of my goals was to talk about Berlin as a person and I think you can't cover that without talking about these incredible tragedy sees face. I leave his father at a very young age which terminated his education and literally put him out on the streets within a couple years because he felt he wasn't contributed enough to the family that they'd be better off without him and then the death of his first wife right after their honeymoon. He takes her to run a honeymoon and she takes all typhus and dies a few weeks later. And you know this is not a guy that we think of as as an artiste. He's not somebody who you know. He's not Sylvia plath. He didn't reach into his our heart and tear out songs. But in that case he did break that pattern and and wrote a song called. When I lost you. That was very personal. Yes it's a beautiful walls that he wrote nineteen twelve after the death of by Of his of his first wife Dorothy he was twenty four years old. It's a gorgeous song. It has been recorded many times since it holds up it is. It is a awards whose lyrics have simplicity that he that he had to really really work very very hard to achieve it. Holds up It was perhaps the one instance the one instance in his life were Berlin admitted that he wrote a song about his own personal experience. But I think it's important to know and there's one there's a loss. Glenn's life was really marked etched deeply by loss not only the loss of his father's first wife but when he married again There was an infant son. Three weeks old died on Christmas Day of Crib. Death in one thousand nine hundred twenty eight there was that terrible loss and I think that that laws arguably underlies the bittersweet yearning feeling of the Song White Christmas I think balloons entire curve of of of of of ballads certainly contains contains elements traces strains of of sadness that that are that are deeply informed by the loss that he suffered in one of the great songwriting tools. That employed to terrific effect I think was the shifting of a major to minor within songs. It's also by the way is also by the way a device that was very much used by Lennon McCartney who both both suffered the loss. Each suffered the loss of a mother when they were in their adolescent so loss loss had a lot to do with Lennon McCartney balance as well okay. Let's go ahead and here when I lost you. This is Frank Sinatra's version from nineteen sixty to many decades after the song written and roll who Lost we'll have of you. I lost the beautiful Raynham. Lost More Novice Frank Sinatra saying Burlington's when I lost you a song. He wrote for his first wife. Who died tragically tragically after their honeymoon. And you talked about the death of his son and we've been talking about Irving Berlin or this moral paragon and many people either. He he lived with his second wife straight through to their deaths. They both lived to be quite old Berlin to one hundred and one and fell in lived into her eighties and they were devoted There's a touching anecdote and they are about their senescence when they're in separate rooms and caretakers and he thinks he's in a hotel room and he's very concerned that he get a message to his wife and he wants her to know that she loves him and that he loves her and they take the message downstairs to his wife and she sort of laughs you know that they say he wanted to know you have his love and and she says. I knew that and and that's to me speaks of the confidence of a couple that had successfully raised three daughters together. That had lived together for decades as you said. His mistress was music but in the nineteen twenties it was very controversial for ten. Pin Alley Songwriter. A Jewish emigrant to court the daughter of one of the Titans of American Industry Clarence mackey of a Major Telegraph Company. Talk about that a little bit. And and the role of the tabloids and helper len reacted to the negative spotlight fame. Well it was rough They were As you say they were mismatched. Couple Berlin was a thirty five year old widower. She was twelve and a Jew and she was a twenty one year old Catholic socialite Who wrote amusing pieces for the new which was a brand new magazine and her Father Clarence? Mackey was not so much. A tycoon. His father's at tycoon. He was an air to a huge fortune. Comstock Silver Lode Fortune A Catholic and deeply disapproved of this match and in fact disinherited his daughter when she married when she married Berlin and this story was just cabinet to the newspapers of the day This was way before. Tv or the Internet. They were the access Hollywood couple of the day. The newspapers could not get enough of this story about these. The Catholic socialite at the at the much older Jewish songwriter disapproving father disinheriting the whole thing drama. That played out for month after month and year after year. And it got to the point where Irving and Ellen It just couldn't stand the spotlight anymore. There was there was one moment when Ellen really snapped at at a bunch of reporters and Who one of whom had had the temerity to ask if she was pregnant her first pregnancy and she swore at him like a sailor This very polite young lady so it. It was hard on them. But listen with fame and comes comes the wages of fame and this is these were the wages that came along with with with their with your marrying and they were indeed a happy and long married couples sixty three years in all and and and and loved each other very deeply and even reconciled with her father who gallantly. I was watching a documentary about Berlin. Prepping for this and that just broke me down when they told the story of that Christmas Day when they found her in Berlin junior dead in his crib and Clarence Machi- shows up at the door a few hours later and put the reclaimed his daughter and forgave her. And you point out. In a book that they're fortunes had kind of changed mackey losses fortune in the stock market crash and there was no later he reestablished himself as a wealthy man but never again what he had had before and Berlin also lost everything and the crash but he had more songs than he a Berlin yes Berlin laws. Five million dollars his entire fortune in stock market crash. Five million dollars being the equivalent of fifty million today if not more but Berlin had something else first of all. He had a hit a wealthy young wife who despite the fact that she had been. Disinherited had an untouchable by her Father Trust Fund That that was a source of income and Berlin also. Berlin was a muddy engine. He had the money engine. He wrote the songs that continue to generate royalties for his wedding. His wedding gift to his young wife he he gave her Then and for For All posterity royalties to the great song. Always so They they met made out. Just fine and yes. There was kind of reconciliation between Berlin and his father in law. I don't think they ever truly reconciled. They were too far apart for that but they they at least became cordial with each other. Yeah add more importantly. She was able to reestablish the relationship with her father and talking about e- Berlin bouncing back from the depression. There was a court. You haven't hear from him that he had this worry throughout his career that day. I'm going reach for it and it won't be there it meaning his inspiration and eventually even after this incredibly long career from you know of nineteen o nine to call me Madam. In the early fifties he's scoring hits but eventually there does come a time when he reaches for it and it's not there. I think it's important to note too that Lynn especially in the wake of World War. Two he wrote in all armies show called. This is the army That played on Broadway very successfully up. All the receipts. Were donated to the To the Army Emergency Relief Fund every Penny He then toward this show with an all army cast across the country. A movie was made of it and then he took the cast over to England Great Britain and to Europe in the midst of World War Two and often close to the front lines within the sounds of guns firing bombs dropping perform this show to entertain the troops throughout Italy in nineteen forty four and then the South Pacific nineteen forty four and nineteen forty five sometimes at at extreme personal danger. This experience in World War. Two was very intense very involving very physically draining to a guy who was getting close to sixty years old and he was exhausted at the end of the war and suffered a kind of PTSD and Fell into a clinical depression and for five years in the in the early and mid nineteen fifties was hospitalized with with depression so Yeah and then. There came show after that he. He came out of his depression. Nobody knows exactly why. Or how in the late fifties or early sixties? He wrote a final musical. Mr President in nineteen sixty two was a gigantic flop so he was reaching four. It was no longer there but the age had changed. The time had changed had changed. He was old man and the sixties were in and And the music business had completely metamorphosed and he goes on to live another. Several decades basically is a complete recluse and allows them to have one hundred birthday party that he doesn't attend but is a big fit in showbusiness extravaganza with with Many performances and you sing about. Madeline Kahn's tawdry take on one of his numbers for special notice. Yes you'd be surprised. It is a wonderful performance of a wonderfully dirty soem without a single word thousand art that they had an end the days of of the censorship and and Like so many arts and we might have lost the ability to create new contributions to the great American songbook. We can always go back and listen. We can always sit down at the piano and try to play the Marcellus. And and so James. Kaplan it's been a great treat talking about Irving Burland in your book arguing. Berlin New York. Genius and Oprah can have you back on the show to talk about Frank Sinatra pleasure. Speaking with you follow the letter role. Podcast on twitter at let it roll. Cast and check out our website at let it roll. Podcasts DOT COM. Nave will be back next week with the rock and Roll Librarian to discuss the classic biography of the doors. Jim Morrison no one here gets out alive. Let it roll is opinion podcast and you can listen to all the other. Great Pantheon podcasts at. Www DOT pantheon. Podcasts DOT COM Irving Berlin New York genius is published by Yale. University press please support our show by ordering the Amazon referral link on our website. Let it roll. Podcasts DOT COM Everybody this is Brian Regan host of the podcast side gems which is now a prime member of the Pantheon family of podcasts. I've been a free Lance Entertainment Journalist for twenty five years now and I often end up in conversations that go off on tangents. Suddenly you're discussing someone's outside passion or hobby something you didn't know about and it leads into revelations about their character and about their life outside of their art. I've often had to cut those details out because the story district word count for a specific focus. So here the entire focus of the podcast is just on their side. Jam Or side Gems for example Alison. Chance Frontman William Divall. Spent some time talking to me about reading history which led him into talking about his public school education and how it was so terrible in high school that he actually managed to get into a private school for free to his life. Could take a different course in this series of podcast. You're going to be hearing my interviews with musicians of all different backgrounds genres talking about everything from surfing to collecting antiques to stargazing. I hope you enjoy side jams. Please tune in regularly and I'll have a lot of interesting guests in store for you.

Berlin Irving Berlin Irving Berlin astrum Irving Berlin Singha Sonko America Alexander Wolcott Irving Berlin New York Bing crosby Twentieth Century Hollywood Irving Berlin Holiday Inn Lennon McCartney Berlin Aerobic Music Irving Berlin Scott Joplin Frank Sinatra ragtime Alexander Irving Berlin
Hour 2: Pascal Siakam or Kyrie Irving?

The Dan Le Batard Show with Stugotz

37:58 min | 5 months ago

Hour 2: Pascal Siakam or Kyrie Irving?

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Ziprecruiter hiring faster and easier from COFFEE ROASTER TO CONSTRUCTION WORKER. The CMO to try Ziprecruiter for free. Simple go to ziprecruiter dot com slash. Dan that's ZIPRECRUITER DOT com slash? Da Yeah and Ziprecruiter dot com slash and Ziprecruiter the smartest way to hire quits. Gotcha podcast is presented by capitoline. This is banking reimagined. Live at our with his two guys on. Espn RADIO ESPN. Radio is presented by progressive insurance drivers who switch and save pay an average of seven hundred ninety six dollars less per year all gassed on Dan. Lebatardshow appear via the Shell Pennzoil performance line. Here's your sportscenter. Update CLIPPERS owner. Steve Bomber is in negotiations with the MAS- Wear Garden Company to purchase the forum in Inglewood California in a move to build a new eighteen thousand seat arena and entertainment complex in the vicinity Atlanta United Forward Joseph. Martinez has a torn. Ac L. His right knee. He did it in their. Mls season opening victory vs Nashville South Carolina. Oh no no no. No no no no Nashville. As see yeah. South Carolina's sports no no Nashville South Carolina. No no place to have a team both places soccer story the no and finally Meghan markle reportedly dried sport diving sport. That's that's GONNA go with that. Just dying or dead for. Awhile Super Bowl with them and finally Meghan markle reportedly is trying to land. A role in Hollywood blockbusters. This markle can't quit. Be in a princess and then continued act like a princess. Personally that's just my thing. Good Point Sports Center brought to you by advance auto parts. They can hedvig advance anytime. What four batteries is about to fail getting free battery testing free installation with any automotive battery? Purchase only at advance auto parts for all the way to live information tune into sports center on. Espn radio all throughout the day. Nashville South Carolina. Stu Gods has Been excited here because Lebron keeps doing the things to God says that every once in a while. Lebron will have to remind some people that he's still the best player in the game and these people are peers or the young up and comers he's averaging thirty ten and ten against Luca trae Young and Zion Williamson right and they're seven and one in those games and so he it seems clear. In retrospect it seems clear that he was just injured last year and that what happened was though sixteen games. They were fine. They were three seat or four seat and then he missed sixteen games and then when he came back there were a number of times you saw him and he didn't look like himself. There have been a couple of times this season. Where he's going up for a dunk and he gets you know he hits the Rim and he's not like he doesn't look the same way that you're used to seeing him look when he's jumping jumping over. You know John. Lucas junior dunk the ball. He's got better teammates. And I think it was John Lucas third. So is that a fine that that is a fine. Yeah I mean Lebron used to be the guy to take Matthew Della Vedova to the NBA. Finals or Larry Hughes to the finals and last year. He showed that he's no longer the guy that could lift a bad team too not just the championship. Not even the playoffs. I understand. He was hurt and allegedly battling through that when he came back he did the playoff zero dark thirty mode remember and they lost like all the Games because he knew them morale on that because he tried to trade them all publicly so he's not the same kind of player but if you surrounded by the right pieces he's an MVP candidate that's what's happened. He's right back to the top of the sport where It is odd to say because of his age. Like that's not supposed to happen and I do believe because I've told you a number of times to God's I am old enough to remember how cruel and mean you guys were to Michael Jordan before he won the titles like I'm I remember how much you questioned him as a ball hog and guy who couldn't win because he was putting up a sixty against Larry Bird in the playoffs and his team was lose it. You didn't even know me then but you knew it was doing it. There were so many people doing it. And I think we've done into Lebron like it's actually a very poor reflection on the intellect of the sports fan in terms of being able to appreciate appreciate what feels like unprecedented greatness as it's happening because we bring such judgment to it. I mean we were comparing Michael Jordan. I remember it to Dominique Wilkins. We were saying like you can't win like that. The reason that he loses in the playoffs isn't because he's got to get tougher anything now think about what he was playing against right. He was playing in total thug ball. The rules were different and so he was just getting He was getting dismantled by Detroit's of the world. You know how Lebron sort of change the math in winning titles when it came to the Jordan comparisons one in Cleveland and ending that cities curse means. Like I don't like to Jordan's rings has ever been a star. That's one at three different places. If he does this Mike if he does this I understand that some people will still do six and four on him but if this year if he can knockout Greek freak and win titles are four titles in three different places. What of why does it though I mean a? I forgot about that because I thought the com- was shack shacking pretty close because he got through an NBA finals with Orlando. But that's how you change. Hawaii is not all over the map in someone has a fond memory of you. I don't feel like why is ever going to be able to be Lebron because he wasn't covered If for as weird as it is to say because he was in the finals winning a championship when he was in his early twenties. Kawai has done it. So quietly that he hasn't gotten decade-long infomerrcial of here at all times is Lebron James talking about a Taco like every bit of thing that comes out of Lebron James's mouth becomes a content item in a way. That just doesn't have that kind of thing. I think will build the narrative around him if he eliminates Lebron this year especially with that team. 'cause we already started doing it with him. As a tornado thing does it Lebron and Ghana and Janas. Yes yes decides. What if Lebron does it to Hawaii? And then Lebron's back morons all the way back in. It's his league at thirty five years old. That's the crazy part. That's the credit not just thirty five years old thirty five years old with more mileage on the odometers than any thirty five year old has ever had in that sport ever had because of the minute he has played so many postseason minutes that he's basically played an extra season in the postseason. International Ball to Kobe had a lot of miles. Because when you start getting into the guys that were stars right away from out of high school I mean I did do it last year to this and then did it to. The warriors did a basically by himself into like the warriors. As we know it really. You're feel you have to stop doing by my by himself like given the Raptors GonNa Win Sixteen Games this year without doing that before I got there and they would always token the playoffs. Still it's a different team. It's you're saying by himself but they had to all stars this year. They have two people in the All star. I understand but I have Kawhi winning one by himself and I have Lebron winning one by himself there. Even I'm not doing anything for that. I wouldn't do it for Lebron James. Okay but when you look at the second best player that Lebron James had is he going to have had the career that Pascal Siachen is GonNa have kyrie Irving Kyri. Yeah better career than Pascal thank. You didn't know that he's going to have that. He probably do is problem. I mean Kyrie's probably GonNa win another title right if you think durant and Kyrie you're GonNa win a title. I don't think they're well regardless it doesn't matter whether I think they're going to win a title or not you guys think that by the by the time it's done Kyrie Irving is going to have had a better career. I'm no Kyrie Fan and this year has kinda disaster sort of skip a year for for Brooklyn. He's coming off of that Boston mass. But let's let's pump the brakes on crm. Well how old is he? I Know Siachen shown like incredible growth by putting in the Kyri class. And I don't like hiree as a player but Come on hold on a second here. Let the outcomes twenty-five years let's talk about this for a second and Kyrie is only like twenty six twenty seven right. Yeah but at twenty five. You're kind of those kind of who you are even if you're Siachen who was like incredibly wrong. When he came into the league like I don't I don't think is going to get that much better. Kyri is twenty-seven can you look at the numbers for crm this year the first year where he's allowed to be the centerpiece of a team and the efficiencies of Siachen I understand? I wonder what you're doing doing a respect for the game like Siachen. This is his first year as also and he was he was good certainly stretches down the postseason and his growth has been amazing and Kyrie's on sort of like a downward trajectory but come on cary was I mean second biggest shot in NBA history. Let's ease twenty-three to half points per game. Crm seven point five rebounds. Field goal percentage is forty five percent which is actually down from last year when Kawai was they're making the game easier for him so I mean he's down in in terms of numbers but he should be but that's what always happens right. What always happens is when you're star leaves the guy who comes in next ends up averaging the twenty-three because someone has to average the twenty three and is efficiency percentages go down because it's easier to stop him when you make the usage rate so high that You wear them out. And he's not getting your primary defender but still it can't be disputed that That the Toronto Raptors are going to win more games this year without Kawhi Leonard Than Kawhi. Leonard is going to win with the clippers. That's that's not. That's not a small thing when you when you're confused by the Toronto success and you keep going to. Nick nurse can coach and their central player on a on a team. That will probably not make it very deep in the playoffs this year. Either because Boston or Milwaukee will probably end up knocking them out. He proved it to his last year. He builds those teams for the postseason. I mean they do. The maintenance plans over there with the clippers. Him and Paul. George haven't really played together all that much. Considering Paul George's injuries and their nights off they had the playoffs in mind. They really don't care about the regular season they've won four straight the rat there's of lost three straight and quite honestly that team without Paul George and just go. Why like not much better than what he had in Toronto last year? Probably even worse and you guys helped me with something though because. I don't know what it is that you want Toronto to do and I understand that up a boot and Holzer team One SIXTY PLUS GAMES IN ATLANTA. You didn't trust them. And you shouldn't have because Lebron ends up knocking them out of the playoffs. But can you explain to me what it is that you need to see from Toronto for T to buy in if I can impress you with Toronto winning more games than coli out Kawai the season after losing. If I can't impress you with that what the hell can impress you with nothing seriously. I the raptors have to win a title without Kawhi. That'll be impressed. Okay but then but also the warriors have to all get hurt at the same time to make that possible because it's the only reason the raptors one like everything fell apart in golden state in physical obvious way. It's a shame though. It's a shame they had all those injuries. Because it was headed towards the end of the dynasty all those dynasties and ugly and durant already gave away saying that he made his decision before the NBA Finals Senate Achilles enough. But I mean when you lose clay and you lose Kevin Durant and then the next season Steph. Curry is broken. And the Golden State Warriors are among the worst teams in the league this year. Draymond Green looks useless without the other. Three guys covering goal. I wish I had the ending to the heat. Run at the warriors had because all their fans can just say We got hurt. And that's what sort of nuked everything when it was probably at its logical end. It seems like in your personal record book. Dankali did not win the title last year. Ratty let's go my private jet fuel film. I'm just saying you're giving an awful lot of credit and I was amazed by his by his mercenary nature to. I was amazed by two but a lot of things had to happen to make that possible and Toronto. I'm just trying to get you to stop saying that. He didn't have any help right. But what had to happen was quite had to sit out and all that stuff but also what had to happen. Was Larry Rosen continuing to go to the post season every year and losing it. But this is the thing though I think the stink of Derozen is so lingering that you're still blaming the raptors and still not trusting the raptors. Because of Garozzo Rosen back. And what a title within. Then no one press. That's okay. That's what they have to do because I do believe put it on. The poll. Guillermo is Toronto handicapped by the stink of is your belief in Toronto. Handicapped by the lingering stink of derozen. Geico presents left brain versus right brain after much deliberation. I've decided we should switch to GEICO. Hey sounds good to me. We could save hundreds of dollars on car insurance which now just blue sky in here. We can reinvest those funds in my business idea. Not this again. I get some investors on board right. Nobody is going to invest in dental floss. Made of Turkey jerky okay. Well not with that attitude. Wow geico fifteen minutes could save fifteen percent or more there's crispy and then there's crispy try our new and improved Tyson crispy chicken strips crispy just got crispy Donlevatar. You are very poor listener. Your job is to be a listener. It's your only job as far as I'm concerned as my only relationship with you to listen you already listener. You're bad at it. Guts that listener back this is the Donlevatar show with the guys on. Espn radio if you missed any of our interviews. Check about on demand and he Dan Lebatardshow podcast brought to you by capital one with capital. One you can open a checking or savings account with no fees or minimums welcomed the banking reimagined capital one. What's in your Wallet Approval Required Capital One? Na member Dan it's time for straight talk. It is brought to you by straight talk wireless. Well here is my straight talk and it is a threat to the monopoly. That will came. Thinks he has on the truth but this is my true in the last segment. I forgot about Kyrie. Irving being Lebron James's teammate. And then I started forming the argument on behalf of Siachen because I had forgotten. It is something that we in the media the biggest of the gas bags do all the time we call it the COWHERD. I I I call it the Stephen a Smith the first take actually will be the wilpon too. It's really be patient zero with Chris. Carter Kevin Johnson and his top mind then just doubling down. Remember that defending into the death. It was great it was okay so I did forget. And then I started formulating the argument on behalf of SIAKA CC. So he doesn't Catch Abo- He wore number Bo when he played so I put out a call to a meal. Hassen and Brian Windhorst to see who they would say Be who they would say is better between Siaka and Kyrie Irving So come on here with US Amino Hassle. The first one to join US explain to me. What is the answer to the question? Who is the better player? Or WHO's who's going to have the better career. I don't even know what how Danby Right. How can I be right? It's a little career obviously from the skill level sampling. He's one of the best ever in terms of the things that he can do with the basketball on the court. There are many players in the game that rival his especially inconsiderate. He's not really excessively athletic. Were really big. He's just a fairly normal side they will to compete here and be great at it and he's got a track record of doing it for a while. Multiple All Star game multiple also obviously champion with with Cleveland. In Two thousand sixteen having said that as gal even with a shorter resume His growth in three years is pretty much unprecedented. I don't think we've ever seen a player improve like that as quickly And he's got the size. Obviously Anthony the far better defensive player asking me. Who's had the career victory without about? Drafting right now rather have on my team. I think I'd go pascal him. Because he's more well-founded also I know he doesn't. I don't have to deal with any of the shenanigans that you have to do. I actually when I was asking you. Who's GonNa have the better career which gets hard to answer given Kyrie's body yeah? The injury Obviously factors inside. That makes it a lot tougher And obviously he plays Kevin Durant so that makes life a little easier for him as opposed to see them. Who is the best player on his team? But I guess you could say like this. When Cari was the best player on his team. How good that team look? Good this well. That's that's thank you. I appreciate you always being available to us for your expertise. Here's how I do. Kyri has one title as at two dreadful as one. Crm has won titles two slash three. Because Kyle Larry was there so Siaka needs to win one as brine and then your your measurement is always. Yes your paint you thank you. He says if anyone was throwing flowers on the state was. And that's all I care about because you were just hitting the note you always hit. Which is I just can't rings. All I do is different counting of rings I mean what else is it accounts So I mean thank you for being with us. I appreciate it but Windhorst is busy right now. He said it's a simple question with a complicated answer. Oh but he can't. He can't come to the phone right now because he's busy so If we can't get windhorst were never going to get names. We're still going after. Nance Mike does not believe that Jim. Nance knows who we are. You might know. Sue God's outed do God's not know why the seventeen mile collection was what the seventeen mile collection was as our resident Gulf expert. Who knows all about the Pebble Beach Stuff Super Bowl Week? Dan GEICO presents a book. Another voicemail from your roommate. Hey I got some bad news. Someone broke into our apartment and they took your TV on your computer. But what's most upsetting? Took my water bottle there it is. It's really worried I second. Oh they took your stereo to the Geico Insurance Agency could help. Keep your personal property protected like if your roommate is only worried about her two dollar aluminum water bottle visit GEICO DOT COM to see how easy it is to switch and save on Renter's insurance donlevatar with a by the way that sounds like a dumb one box plus mine. Yep about rings plus minus. I mean okay six. Mj Three for Lebron. To Gods what. Lebron's rings in a box and then put. Mj's rings in a box and tell me who has more. That's a plus three by the way this is our show with as to ads on. Espn RADIO ESPN. Radio is presented by Progressive Insurance. All guests on the Dan lebatardshow appear via the Shell Pennzoil performance. Line here's your sportscenter. Update CLIPPERS owner. Steve Bomber is in advanced negotiations with the Madison Square Garden Company to purchase the forum in Inglewood California in a move to build a new eighteen thousand seat arena entertainment complex in the vicinity Atlanta United Forward. Joseph Martinez has a tornado on his right knee. He did it in their. Mls season opening victory vs Nashville SC. Add finally in news that will excite Meena kinds. Edged sketch is unveiling a new model that will feature a round screen that can be rotated drop. Perfect ARCS and circles. She'll finally be able to draw me. Need a bigger achy. Sketch though surface screen CA giant tablet like. I'm like movie theater screen edges sketch ears these selectquote difference guppies what option what policy one rape but selectquote. Jobs a good. Get you up to Ted options. I'm highly rated life insurance companies for a free personalized quote. Call Eight hundred. Seventy Zero Ted Dan or go to selectquote dot com today for all the latest headlines and information tune into sports center on radio all throughout the day Stugatz The Houston Rockets. Have to be the most inventive team in the league. They have to be because they saw. It wasn't good enough and in the middle of the season they just said I Russell B our center and he's been super efficient and they've been good as well. Yep Thirty nine twenty one six straight how about? They invented a way for them to win themselves. The title though there it is okay so getting back to what you were doing in the last segment where you were making Theocracy win a title this year to prove himself to you got to win one. Okay I understand but this is what just happened. Okay I want you to understand that you who doesn't care about being consistent at all and I understand that you want to do this with just titles but if winning is indeed the measurement that your going to use to measure these people Siaka is presently having a season that Kyrie Irving has never had as a number one like this is the we have only seen kyrie irving do nothing lose and foul up the Celtics as a number one so using your measurement of winning is the only thing matter. Siachen is presently having a season. Kyrie Irving has never had kyrie irving is a career loser. When he's a number one right well he was a number one on some really bad cavalier team. He was Oh talent around. Was the number one on a good Boston team. So good boy any nuked and they went to the Eastern Conference Finals. Without Kyrie Irving. So that's fair Jaylen Brown and Jason Tatum and those guys with guys that took them to that. Isa Guard pilots. A fair point this holy fair windhorst says okay. Windhorst is answering the question. I'm asking him how much better is Kyrie? Irving is a player then Siachen and his response is that it is a simple question with a complicated answer. Siachen plays at both ends and can defend multiple positions. He's much more valuable than Kyrie in that way. He's also low maintenance in the locker room not an offensive superstar. Kyri as a spectacular offensive talent. Who can win you games? But his fragile and also poor on Defense. Neither one is the number one most teams would love to have either. So it's not as much of a difference as it would appear to not be as much of a difference as you think it's reputation it's winning a championship if you ask Lebron Right now. It's just a purely hypothetical world. Just hey you could have. Crm OR KYRI. Irving one hundred percent healthy for the playoff run. Who Do you think he choose? Probably Kyri right. We're also looking at it right now. Or Kyrie's stock on the heels of the boss and stuff and him being hurt yet again and no one. Generally liking his attitude is stock is pretty much kinda like at an all time. Whoa whereas you look back when he was number two winning a championship Siachen for as good as he was. I'd say lowery was probably number two in that NBA finals series despite not really ever being a good playoff player before that. So who's a better number two on the championship team easily? Kyrie Irving because he was the number two and he made the biggest shot or one of the biggest shots in NBA history again. Put this on the poll. More annoying phrase having said that or I will say this because Jeff Van Gundy loves I will say this instead of just saying it and we just heard you said that so. I don't need you to tell me that You're you have said it. I think it's listen. Thanks Mike biggest verbal CROTCH is. Listen I will say this because I don't WanNa hear you say that basically. I want to hear what you have to say. I don't Care Okay. Very good so you don't. WanNa talk to anybody is you're you don't want anyone to say anything. I want. Anybody talking came very very good. Weird Industry Joe's. You're actually a very active listener as someone who doesn't want anyone talking to you. There is no one who's listening more to the things happening on this show than you are. That's true I wanted to ask you guys this question because I don't know whether I know what I'm married to okay. I'm aware I stopped getting disappointed by students. I've lowered my expectations to a place where I just don't expect much from him. I've noticed that I mean okay. And so Crashing so there are opportunities that Stu gods has in his life as their every eighteen months. There are opportunities. That's authorized has in his life and usually requires an investment. Stu Gods wanted to talk about this on Friday. We had we went to the heat. Game had a great time with the Jimmy V. Winners who paid way too much money to hang out with us. But STU gods nuked my ability before the game to take these people to Pat Riley and Micky arison because of what? I'm about to tell you and it's okay. We did it at halftime. But STU GODS NUKED IT. I tried to make plans was to God's I'm like happy hour five o'clock on Friday and then we'll go to the heat game so I'm happy hour. Five o'clock Friday six o'clock comes around and like I'm on the golf course. Be there shortly. You did say closer to five thirty at one point. I did but you came closer to seven thirty. You arrive arrived in the area now. One of the things do God's his lived here so long that he doesn't know he's still doesn't know the difference between Miami Beach and downtown like he was lost. He thought I thought he was. He thought he was staying near well. This is what he said. I don't know what it is and. Espn was nice enough to put me up in a hotel because we were doing the Jimmy V. Night. Okay and I'm telling you I had no idea until I actually started driving to the hotel that the hotel was a downtown brickell right near the arena and no I couldn't get there from from the links to that hotel and then back to Dan for a nice little dinner before the heat game. I couldn't get there and back in time to time it out correctly because I have no idea how to navigate around the city. I don't okay. You've lived around here a long time. But how what level of Mad am? I allowed to be that a meeting that stugatz requested to discuss his life. He stood me up for two and a half hours and nuked our ability before the game to introduce the winners to these These important people. It should be nine on a ten scale considering. Gps on his. Were you waiting at the place for him? I mean I was there with my wife so it was fine but yes he. The only reason we were there was to to have this conversation with two. God I would say Ted of ten but I mean this is amazing. What's happened with Dan? Seventeen years in shrugged. Valerie asked me. She's like aren't you mad? I'm like it's it's the reason I chose not chosen Tequila because this is interesting because I was wondering Valerie had said that to you if he asked. Aren't you mad? I was wondering if she's asking. Where is it? It's weird to make a meeting with somebody and then you don't show up for two and a half hours? That's not normal. Human behavior is if it was a meeting at. Why was your wife? There was an important business meeting because I don't trust the Guy Achillo important catch. He's such a nice person billy such as he he'd somewhat cost me when I tell you. I have ceased being the gatekeeper on these things. Most people can't get into my life anymore. That's a perfect move. Actually now that I think about it. If you're GONNA get stood up just bring someone else. 'cause then you won't be alone. But I'm also anticipating like the expectation. I would be mad if I'd been sitting there by myself year but when you said five. I figured I'd get there at five thirty when you pushed it back to five thirty then I said to myself. I'm going to get there at six. That's what I didn't get there by seven. Thirty is a big place this city. I am happened. Did you get close to the place and then turn around by the time you got there. Did you even get closer? Were you lying to me? What happened besides Super Bowl? Week was I did get to the parking garage. Offered to drive you to back to the game. I mean I made it totally unnecessary. I never made it to the park. You're Donlevatar if you see a photo of fries you reach for it. Not Unlike a pigeon flying into a sliding glow I. I'm not kidding you. I have been tempted in restaurants just walking past tables to grab somebody's fries. That hasn't happened to you guys. I've done it. You've done to me done that being on like actual photographs retry to zoom in on it with your fingers and you just make a big streak across it a bigger. Frye yes. I've licked my computer screen when it's on there. I love cry. Stugatz doesn't love French fries. I thought it I always someone out there. That was the one thing America could agree on. I thought that that was the one place. Where every citizen in our country would indeed be united across the fifty states. This is Liberta show with the guys on. Espn radio today is for doing and today. Louisiana State University celebrates Mahmoud Abdul Roaf Mock Mood Mahmoud. Let celera this wrong now now. It's the it's spelled. I think with an agent pronounces a K. Super Bowl about thirty years ago at the time named Chris Jackson. I'm no one to be correcting anybody on names by the way like I I no one is worse here. I am the worst so like but I do know that one and Mahmoud was spelt mock mood was spelled M. A. H. M. O. U. D. Yes okay easy to spell what his name. Was Chris Jackson right anyway. About thirty years ago at the time named Chris Jacks in Abdul Rose spent two years at Lsu before being drafted by the nuggets in nineteen ninety man. Was He good odd Saturday? The Tigers retired his number thirty five. Is They went on to beat? Texas am today is for doing and it's brought to you by the Home Depot with everything you need to do. Projects Smarter Faster and easier. Welcome to today's Home Depot. How doers get more done Stugatz? His weekend observations are coming in ten minutes. But Billy why were you saying to STU gods man? You're really good at lying during the breaker you guys thinking that this is not something. That's going to be here today. To God's scribe and I think about it that's all here's what do you mean it's why is it not going to be described today? God's came in here and says man Chris Cody has mastered the three day weekend. Knows how to call in with some sort of sickness or something. That's not real and what happened where we're the conversation but it was three phases. The first one was him just floating out there whereas Chris and then Kinda like well you know. He has an issue in whatever goes man. It's always a mind. Anyone else ever noticed that always on a Monday with him. And then we're like okay guys like the seems like it's out of his control. Whatever he goes guy leads the league long weekends and then walked out on like. This doesn't seem like something that he would make up like the situation that he's saying whatever like it seems like like you really need to learn how to lie. I need to teach you how to lie. This guy's mastered it and then walked out. Well I sat down with Chris. I mean you and I do so so you don't want to get into the details of how good how you marvel. That's I don't know any of the details. I don't know why Chris is out today and I see that you're avoiding pieces of it but because it's none of my business for me to put out there. I've already put it out there though. And Stu gods thinks he's lying. I'd bill deep at this point all right. The way the conversation went was Chris usually tells us the morning of but he was in the emergency room with his wife or strep throat to which I said who goes the emergency room which strep throat. And she's hospitalized. She stayed there overnight. Okay right so right. I understand that. Billy said to me. We usually find out about these things on Monday morning but Kris told us last night. Yeah and I said that's the cover your basis and he said explain to me how that works and I explained to him that if Chris tells you this morning that he spent all night in the emergency room with his wife. You will quickly fire back. Why didn't you tell us last night? This was going on and give us a little warning heads up that you might not be at work. The next day at Billy said man. You're good so I offered to sit down with billy and give them a little. You know a tutorial on one lives. Yeah Billy you're claiming last segment to be a master and and yelling at me. How could you believe? That's God's was at the parking garage because he said he was at the parking garage. You were the one telling mean that you can't believe anything. Well you got anything to God says but I tend to believe Chris on this one like you let us know yesterday now. Granted trying to be honest with you. There have been some that I might put it on the poll. Is it suspicious that Chris Cody's every ailment lands on a Monday ability to pads fun? Well we both did. It wasn't billy to Nascar any of this. I didn't ask for any of their stand up. Always so what's coming up in ten minutes or Stugatz Gods as weekend observations but did somewhat indeed catch. Tom Brady. You guys are always making fun of me for using facetime. Did someone indeed the catch Tom? Brady face timing Mike rebel while at a basketball game Ataman. Did it too like they were facing together for Abel's there? How and they were facing at the game and people invaded their privacy. But kinda ask him for it when you do the face in public man. That's a pretty good one though in terms of getting out like I don't know how guarded Tom Brady. Is 'cause Tom Brady's old so maybe he's having some technology issues. The same way that I'm having probably not settled out. It was not a man who appears to be a bit of a meathead who So a bit of a meathead. He is a bit was not necessary. They're covering my bases but the idea that Tom Brady might get caught in. A surprise is probably right where he wasn't expecting that particular invasion of privacy. But if I were trying to increase my leverage if I were somebody who wanted to publicly put pressure on my organization my fan base to get scared because I might leave. There are only three coaches are for. That could have come up on that face time and they happened to call the one. That was most beneficial financially.

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The World According to Garp by John Irving

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1:23:44 hr | 3 months ago

The World According to Garp by John Irving

"Stability in which zoom analyst based on their case background. I have heinous bookcase credibility. Because I'm in a child's veteran so veteran that's trim come on. I think you've got decent bookcase credibility from what I can see. Andy Your glass case. Something is that. Is that special. No loss case buts you are. You are possessive because Those shelves came wave doors. But I just didn't use the deals right so showman units you. That's an aesthetic choice. I didn't Oskar shocks me thing. Have you alphabet. Typically that's frowned upon. I think in case credibility. No a working in a bookshop. Many years cured me of that. I I keep authors together. That's interesting mostly. I don't do anything more formal than that. Do spend lot time. Not Quite knowing. I mean every room in the house go books in it so I don't see I don't quite know where things are half the time. Well about you never really talked about this well. Gee I've been to your house. I know you've got books everywhere not in any particular order. Hurry because I'm too lazy to do that. And also because I don't know like you bookshops and well I can't. I can't ever quite get my head round of the people who Color Code Book shelves. Let Nicholas Royle. He's mad about his name pitches on twitter wondering green rooms or blue. You know wouldn't judge but it must make quite difficult to find things even more difficult. My I always know where books are. That's one thing but I just. Sometimes it takes ages because the the to me. I haven't gotten enough book. Shows Steve Ever worry that the case will be based upon by visitors Worry about I've got one downstairs. Learn less less so at the moment. Not such a big issue one. I've got one to use the C. Word. I've got one. She rated definitely book shops downstairs. Where I'd go cool because the boys for some reason they stuck a couple of green men fick fick. It's on there so dad's old country widow crap shelves which is full of full of shows sort of books which. I haven't talked about this on the podcast with with with this on it which has which craft secret societies of rural England the magic of toad men plow witches mamas and bones men bones man. Yeah it's pretty. Yeah that I've got a lot of that kind of stuff. How do all guests Dan with books? Nikita your your so-called choice as as a fairly lax. Today's approach that's right. There's building Polish at the front of the books I put together but they're not alphabetical and I definitely curate. The bookshelves as kind of pass time so just walked past a bookshelf and take one off. That's not really visible and place it in a visible but I don't really know he's gazing. That's the existential question around the bookshelf. I just keep putting I keep dragging books out and putting them on show. But I don't know who it's for to you is let's return to your childhood is not because you want to do what we would call the bookshop of faith out so you want like a face out to just bury your day to day existence or is your brain thinking. Wow it would be amazing. If I don't know Jeanette winterson called in by things are going on. If I'm a lockdown provokes. A kind of honesty tried to answer. The question is honestly as possible. Now grow interesting. That's not like that so I would dream of a high profile high status gazer gazing person to come in but also I am trying to create an aesthetically pleasing bookshelf. Day to day. You're right I hadn't thought about that before I'm doing because a lot of the time a high stakes gazing person doesn't enter the room. Oh you know what they say. File your books like nobody's watching. Yeah we did. We did some bullshit research back in the day it will stones about this and and unsurprisingly. I think books came up ahead of clothes as The things that people felt most spoke of their their true cells which was so. That's one of those things that people obviously say in research things you John. Hayden cells look cleverer and more ingesting. Deeper like great quotes of CASCA is a book is had axed the breaks the frozen sea within us. Well sometimes France. I mean just Merry Merry Christmas. It's just subsidies entertaining take on holiday Shirley. That's all right but yeah I notice you are in a room with media behind you. Is that dead made it? Is that makes to. This was various types of different that media. Yeah though so all finding system which family filing system which involves everything From you know final two CDs to DVD's books whatever eight track is the Leslie in the Children. Very Catholic everything in alphabetical order. When we move times what soon as we have one. That was just full of two day. We realized how much rubbish that was at the beginning of the fence summarizes the rain just said well mix it up a bit so so yeah but like Makita said it's kind of a curated saying But then I say to somebody well this rooms just the one one of these homes. Mvp people that chaos come round. I always say well this is the rubbish and then realized that so now I mean the nice thing is if you go to write coming into your house and I speak have experienced this myself. Do you want to see? You'll buckle Nash shells or do you and if could be round. They going to be embarrassed. If they suddenly say the books piled up where they're GONNA be delighted. It depends on the author. I mean I think John Irving would be delighted. Very Happy Life. She went into a highest Old of his books in a row. So you're going to a friend's house and you know they've got at least one or more of your books. Do you hope to find it in the living room all in the spare room? Oh I think this is the dream that they return to all the time away said it's been on just say though. I'll read that one day. What about on the landing? I've seen my book on that. Sorta strange small bookshelf on the landing. He knows exactly. Is that a nice things that the guests might want to read. Yeah yeah yeah now understand it? So it's also no-man's-land this well. Isn't it this book I own but I don't feel particularly vested in that kind of Know Spurs to go? It's like it might be. It might be useful. Yeah have you ever found? It's anyone ever found their books in a holiday cottage or an airbnb all the time once. I've seen it once. She felt exciting very exciting. Did you sign it? You should have signed it in case I should have. You should have said all I was here I stayed here. Yeah find the really audacious way overly intimate an intimate signing yes. I'll never forget you. Oh get on with the show. We got so much. Those are chat. Hello and welcome to back. This did the podcast that gives new nice to old books today. You find us in the STOLID. Misstep streets postal Vienna hurrying past half-empty restaurants and pastry shops in search of lost child. While neares- just out of sight that looks the sinister wate skin creature known as the undeterred. I'm Don Mitchelson. The publisher of unbound the platform where readers proud from the books. They really want to read. And I'm Andy Miller or through the reading dangerously and joining us today for the second time on about listed is the Double Act of Nikita Lonnie Matt Zone. Hello Hello John and Nikki. Matt were lost here two years ago to talk about the terrifying. Something happened by Joseph Heller. Which some of us is still recuperating. It still haunts me that book it really does. I think about it. I'm a week goes by when I don't think about it. And the ghostly POPs like him but we really love that and we love the episode and when we went to the pub off to the recruiting and we knew it was a gooden We had a conversation where we said. Well it would be great to get Nikita back but this time like because I think I think match owes something happened. So it's Nikitas turns cheese something and Nikita what did you choose the world according to Carp by Jonathan. So we've all been in lockdown reading the world according to Gulp and I can tell you from the conversations that have already taken place off air. Everybody has thoughts that they wish expressed in in the next hour or so. We'll get to as quickly as we can. So let me guess. Nature is the author of three novels including her latest. You people just out from Viking which I talked about on our last episode. Those of you listen to this loss of so. Please listen to me. Talk about how much I loved. Nikitas novel that the reason I did it last time is because I slightly when it's despair lushes. This time. It was such a great book. Wonderful Wonderful Book. I've finished this week as well. I'm really really full of admiration for. Thanks so much guys know so for making me out of Ken for so I'd say to anyone. Now that's my thanks for your book was. Thanks for getting me out of Kenny me. Anyway you. People has been optioned for television by world. Productions creates the bodyguard and Loin of Jesse Nikita is a fellow of the Royal Society of Literature on her work has been translated into sixteen languages. And the thing I wanted to ask you cater Is What's it been like publishing a new novel Now in the middle of this. It's been very different week to week. So obviously the book came out on something like a second. So lockdown just begun and initially there was that palpable publ loss of not being able to touch the book in a bookshop. Actually is quite important to me. I didn't realized that was the visualize was getting now launch and chance tip kind of celebrate in passing but that felt like a small thing given what everyone was going through and what we will going through together. I feel like the book community has really come together in really moving ways to promote books at the moment for kinds of platforms and initiatives and writers supporting whitest. Lots of video sharing and discussions going on lots of stuff happening on podcasts. And on The whole radio circuit and reviews started happening. And that's exciting. And now there's a whole conversation about people wanting to read in lockdown. So I feel like the book is very much discussed even though it's not in a physical book short fills like it's on virtual shelf somewhere and yeah on the landing. It's on the land. It's on the landing of someone's has in a virtual bookshop and most importantly in what formats can wheel listens. Boy You people at the moment so yeah it's available in hardback with various booksellers. Now so it's in stoke and it is tightening up after a week. If you buy online games and you can buy it as an e book too so you. People is also notable as well so there are three different ways to experience. But that's also exciting and booksellers sending it everywhere. So I say the feeling goes up and down because it's not communist in a physical sense but there is this really cheering communal experience going on in terms of the dialogue Arandit. Well thank you. That's really that's really upbeat. Turn to matinee to bring us down. I'm here for Matt is also novelist with six books under his belt including eight minutes idle which was adopted into a film by BBC films. He's also written three children's books and his most recent book was a critical study of the pop star Prince and that was published by Faber. Now I'm going to ask you the question you shouldn't throw it but getting any renting them I wasn't well. It's been a long time for me as I'm sure it has everyone else but initially I was reviewing for the Catholic Herald and I've been given a pile of books that were completely appropriate for the time. The first one was about solitude and then there was the second one about deaths then. The third one was about the afterlife. So that's it. That's the whole the whole of human experience in three books not so rubbing his hands together so it but but by you know it was something to do and it felt like I felt like I mean you know immediately all the all the columnists on twitter have been saying out these noblest write novels of Back Corona Virus. That will be terrible. We would want to read and and they're even normally saying things like I'm Alex Preston. He was saying that That will be writing adultery novels. It will be a you know the. Somebody's going into lockdown and they can't see their mistress Nobody's GonNa write these these or maybe they will but I feel that when this is over people who WanNa think about it for you know it's GonNa be it's GonNa be it's GonNa take a while it's going to be. There's GonNa be a bit of of of reckoning so I didn't really and also there's a lot of people who haven't written before suddenly writing now but I mean what's up group and everybody's with neighbors and they're all going. Oh we'll nobles now this is important. That's remember history. No this ever stop taste. I mean no books that were spawned from last year. Come BACK NEXT YEAR. You'll have all the people wrote during this time and all the books by people who is starting for you know starting afresh so so. I I was quite happy to be writing these reviews because it meant I could respond to what was happening and my own failings but with the venue of reviewing these books so I didn't feel completely self-indulgent or separated from what's actually happening and then since I've but but of with all these things Catholic reduce numbers of of issues newspapers and magazines on. You know going through a difficult time at the moment so So that's gone away so then I fortunately I do have a contract for nonfiction books. I'm working on that. So quite happily where he on working on fiction is a music related But in terms of writing fiction I think it's I mean I'm sure that will be people who who brilliant novels about this. This time of course was the case but I do think they'll be. We have to go through these stages of I Understanding what's happened and then I think the books that will be really interesting won't be the ones that remember this time. But they deal with what happens after this. And I've I mean I think what I've heard particularly from. Tv people at the medical. They're looking for is is really upbeat stuff of that things. That won't see cool Cotton caviar but every everybody's GonNa want these radio domestics of I think it will be every for a kind of inaugural response to in the northeast with any of the terrible things that happened but what the world's going to be like after this when we're all starting to learn how to do things again for the first time in a way And that will be really interesting. I think that that will make writing about that will. We'll be far more interesting than writing. Say Somebody points it out. There's no salutes of Spanish flu literature. Know exactly yeah. Yeah so it may Welby as you suggest that the this period is not the period people want to write about. And it's it's what comes next the whatever that's going to save John. What have you been reading this week? Well I've been reading not in any kind of fernie. Morbid reason but Fought nights ago Tim Robinson died of covered Complications He was. He was suffering from Parkinson's as well but and he was He was in his Jesse was in the seventies late seventies but He is a an artist and a writer and a map maker and he's moved to The Aaron Islands Nineteen Seventy Two was born in Yorkshire and lived in various places in Europe and moved with his wife Mary to The Iron Islands where he says about making the most incredibly detailed physical maps of pretty much every stone every rock on the island but also gathering stories and researching history and owning that particular. Tiny little place on the planet in order to tell an amazing epic story of evolution and of kind of philosophical development and he produced a series of books. But the to the one. I wanted to talk about today's the first one which is called stones of Aaron pilgrimage which is his account of a Sun wise around Around the largest of the errands this was published in nineteen eighty six By Small Irish publisher Wolf Found Press and then he was taken up by Lilliput press another small Irish publisher and eventually he came. He was published in Penguin. It won all kinds of awards. He's like a spiritual godfather of the whole of the what you might call. The sort of Robert McFarland School of of Of writing is a beautiful rich. I mean he's better than almost anybody who's ever tried to do it because he takes one place. I kinda like I will set in this. I liked the practitioners. I like the people who are shepherds who make dry stone walls. Who live in the landscape visits their job although he was an outsider a nobody has. I mean he learned the language. He totally soaks himself in this tiny little bit of land and he spins out of it the most amazing the most amazing stories is a beautiful book. He was a remarkable. He came over to London with his wife and and then he ill and he couldn't go back and he died and his wife died two weeks after he died they had worked together for fifty years on. This extraordinary project is amazing story. I'm just going to read you a tiny little bit because Which turns out to have a slightly kind of John. Irving ye failing to it. But it gives you a feeling for the pros. I lost impression. A stampede dog white with Brown blotch is mainly gun dog but with a bit of Sealand Him. According to his owner are adopted pet Oscar daily loved and sadly missed as the death. Notices put it is to throw a ball for him on the Strand again that almost killed the neglected creature was delight. If I stood forgetful with ball in my hand lost in my musings over the riddles propounded by the sea to the sand. He would wait patiently at my feet looking up and very delicately placed a poor my toe to recall me then I would glance down and catch him saying there were just two ways or perhaps three in which you could hope to give supreme pleasure to another living being you can go home. Might love to her. Who loves you or you can throw that ball for your dog. This is the time for the second alternative for the third is to go on trying to perfect your book which I do not believe you have in you to do. No dogs do not speak. The C does not riddle dolphins. Do Not pray. The vagrant bird neither trust distrust Robinson. Wade's never signed anything. What I myself. Witness is my own forgery. One should forgo these over luxuriant metaphor that covertly impute desire of communication to non human reality. We ourselves are the only source of meaning at least on this turtle beach of the universe. These inscriptions that we insist on finding on every stone every sand grind our in our own hand. People who write letters to themselves generally regarded as pathetic but such is the human condition. We are writing work. So vast so multi vocal so driven asunder by its project becoming co extensive. Reality that when we come across scattered phrases of it. We fail to recognize them as our own beautiful. That's quite good irving like I saw that whole multi vocal sort trying to turn the world into something that is intelligible. Its own handwriting. But we don't recommend Andy what he'd been reading. Well I've actually been reading. Is another novel. Brushing McCoy called illegal land. But I'm not going to talk about it partly because Something else about but will say because I loved it so much I. It's one I put on the on the in the fall on the the no no no no no go on the landing bookshelf of Atlantic might do a full episode on Sheen MacAulay or not noble. I've never read it and I would. I love her to you know with entity that is a but also because we've got here and because an excellent play. Don't blame me for this. I've been reading and listening to this just like answering back. Indiana Joel embiid. His bad boys still go right to the EH THE RUT. Where all things up? Good again a sing. The songs of experience that Blake policies and everything slower all at the same time olive auto crime. I drive fast. Cars fast foods. Maltese foods there is particularly pleasing. Ch- identify everyone. If you heard of that guy that's in a cynical Bob Dylan and we had a clip on the last from Bob Dylan coded fifty five years ago. But that is one of two songs that Nobel Prize Literature Winner Bob Dylan released in the last few weeks that one is called. I contain multitudes. And there's another much longer. One called murder most foul and murder. Most foul has one of the historic things about about seventeen minutes. Long is it is Bob. Dylan's first number one single in the states. Yeah I think I think that's true. I think it's the first time he's ever got rentable before I turn to Matt's who is a Dylan Aficionado. Nikki to Dylan Fan. Yeah I'm a huge fan and when I was listening to see that then I just felt a deep. Fondness are not pleasure just so mischievous it's just mashing it all up shaving off. Who HIERARCHIES I? I like phosphate and I drive. I 'cause I mean. I picked Jim doing both there. He's daring you. I mean he's a daring. It's too on this day. You not to smile. I dare you not to laugh at this. Absurd practice of making arts. Something like a little bit reminded me a bit of his Nobel Prize speech. Actually attacked reminds me of is So mixed a lots babies back. I like big butts and I cannot live from I contain multitudes a ironically named because it seems to have only one notes the whole relevance. But what what you hear on that clip is really fascinating classic. Dylan thing there of a lot. You were saying the cancer from one line to another. You know some of the silly the you soon phrase those bad boys the rolling stones but then suddenly but then suddenly switches into something really a Dylan Ian Melancholy INS and and timely and seriously. Yeah William Blake. What were you saying about these so well you know. I understand that some people have made these arguments and a lot of people seem to seem to agree but for me I it just science science like he's on the landing has looking down the books. I read the matter which was also the criticism made of the Nobel speech. Wasn't it that Charles Stick? Anyone could do it like Charles. Dickens of having hard times you know like like George Elliott. There's no millo my seen in the right order but apart from you know. This is a lot more knowing. This is like him saying he was standing in the doorway looking lot. Jack of hearts. I think it's more like that. It's very curated. Sculpted put together. It's not deranged in the way. You're suggesting look I've got. I've got his notes. I've into notes here. And he's he's written is he's written like you were saying floss mill. Something something mockingbird kill. He's he's trying to work towards no. I mean that's been the thing for years. Hasn't it that he has just people that mind but you know he has just sports books the Japanese novels where he broke the lines but I think he's reached the stage now where he really doesn't care. You know filed as well. That's a book about Jeff KS. And that's where he got the the The title for the Song. Was it was book about JFK amongst the Dylan Gist. That is sort of. You know he'd always said he would never about the assassination because it was. It was too important to him. And then he has and Just fascinating to watch the the kind of the cascading discussions on line of of what is he really saying this. I mean I don't know I love. The levity has in these songs. It's just great. Do we know if these in new or if they or if they've been sitting around for well I mean? The story is that they've been sitting around since about two thousand twelve and he did a couple of songs light. There's on there on on tempest. There's one there's one in about What about the titanic. And then one about John Lennon. I think I charitably. I would like to think he wrote radio and he's finding it is possible to. He's okay well you know. Let's just put out a couple of nine the land being able actually what what is a whole double album soy blonde murder most foul and three songs one personalize an Christmas album. Independent Chris Cover. Maybe they'll be assumed banish flu which I think he's taking these taking a second big iconic subjects with with a sort of with sandy one. Maybe two notes great isn't just acknowledging that all writing is a form of plagiarism. When he does this I think he doesn't own purpose. It feels so rhythmically put together. It's not an accident is it's not just fooling into page of cuttings. It's the folk tradition. Did it's the folk tradition. That's what he always said. Isn't it but you know given given the actually knows the running students come up with a better way ahead. Brace fatboy. That's what what's wrong with. Data of this guy with Nikki is is saying five minutes are up but nick. I think they should be seventeen minutes. Well let's turn to the main event. Which is the world according to go up by John? Irving first published in nineteen seventy eight by Dutton in the US Angolans in the UK. And I'M GONNA ask each vis intern. an all star. I lost read a book by John. Irving in Nineteen Ninety Mitch. When did you rose law street about budgeting I? I think I can beat that. My the last Giovinco I read was in nineteen thousand nine Which was a preferen- meaning and did she see him? Read from with stones in charing cross road as Alfred. Jonathan just I did. I did one. On one of the great night's actually there was a he was. It was absolutely one of the best readings. I've seen by anybody that sequence of readings at that shop which had started some years earlier with a Tobias Wolff at sort of dirty realism to it and Richard Ford but irving absolutely knocked it out of the park. It was amazing. Doing the high pitched capital letter voice. Kind of of own meaning an indicator. When when did you lost? Read a book budge on. Irving other than this I think I read a Owen meany about two years ago. Yeah for the first time or rereading it for the first time so I I. I read John. Having only six years ago. Okay so we'll come to that we will. That's fascinating and Matt. When did you all you? You're a fan on your living. Within reason I mean I I. I tried to find before I came on the last one that I reviewed but because newspaper databases will disappear now. I've reviewed one for the Independent. I can't remember which probably isn't a good sign whether it was until I find you or widow for one year but I did read last night in twisted river which I think was a couple ago but I haven't read the last one the last one I didn't I mean the last one didn't appear to be on the radar tool and I don't have any kind of recollections are even coming out to be honest but I was re reading in pretty regularly up until The one one where he's just working in a restaurant and he actually did go work in a restaurant and the first hundred pages are about him making it Omelette or something and I just couldn't agree that he I gave up. I guess who I feel for lots of people that June arriving suits of if you if your generation lots of people read irving in the eighties or early nineties. And he's carried on of course being tremendously successful author publishing Published Fourteen novels. He's he's still widely read. But I think there's a sense that he slightly belongs to that era that era when he first rose to prominence and when you go is suggested we do Irving Gulp on here was killed out. Be Interesting It'd be nice to to hook up with John. Irving again after such a long gap because I had really enjoyed the books of his the I'd read and coming back to it. I thought wow. This is totally fascinating. This is not the because it's going to be all by the author. I thought John Irving Wolves so there you go. That goes to show. I should've I should've kept paying attention over the last couple of decades Matt. When did you just read Irving Gulp will both well when I was a kid my My mother used to go to this place called this the settlement which was sort of a a bit like Jenny failed his Kind of encampment in the in the in the book and I remember this book. Hitler's people that really hard. This was in the seventies. It was a bad. It was probably about seventy nine. I would have been five or six a little bit older and everybody was a real buzz about this book and I remember thinking I really want to read this book even from Italy. I was too young to do it. And then when I was about twelve or thirteen it was in the school library and I'm meeting was just drooling. Cover the faces on the cover. It looks like this sort of eraserhead fetus. So I had no idea. What was it like an entire book about baby and everybody? Everybody was really upset about it and really passionate. Somebody's have dare you read that book. He says such terrible things things about women and it's somebody else to say. You know such a feminist. No reason most important feminist writer there is i. Just you know seeing literature cools. That kind of fuss made me. Maybe what to read it soon as I possibly could Nikita. When did you so if you started reading about five or six years ago? When did you get to this one so I started with this one so it was very exciting thing of reading something in adult life? That's completely takes you over in the way that you might develop passions for reading Roy to identify the way you feel when you're sixteen or in the six full or university. Those are very particular sweet. Foaling ones that you do in your early journeys of Literature and Literature Loving and are not really hate his son and then later when you think I mean you you love and hate in that sort of very irving garb esque way the feelings of strong and then when I read this which was six years ago I was actually teaching. Create voicing was already a writer and so. I wasn't expecting anything to really Bomi over in that way and I I saw on the list. Of course that another Roy to his teaching James Hose and he was a colleague and I thought. Oh I've never read that. Maybe I'll maybe I'll read that now. Maybe now's the time to finally be of course. Books was very much in public consciousness. Also a new about an you about the film. I hadn't seen the film either and so I write it then and justice bombast of it and the humor and the politics in the unapologetic. It's a and some salting burra style. I just laughing and crying as I read it often in the same page. I thought it was amazing. Certainly it is amazing. I think I don't think anybody who could read. It would not be amazed by a just the the sheer Chutzpah of the book is. It's unflagging incredible one of the things that totally surprised me about is. I think I thought it would be light. Reading a tone Robbins would have slightly seventy kind of right it would. It would be sort of lie or a slightly manny feel to it that would have zany only. Yeah Yeah Leroy signing and what really blew me away is how contemporary. It fell in terms of some of the issues that it deals believable. Yeah and we've got a clip here of John Irving talking in twenty eighteen when the noble was reissued about. Why might speak to people? Now I even imagined as I was writing this novel more than forty years ago now that it would be out of date before I finished it. It seemed to me that the kind of sexual discrimination I was writing about was truly to backward to lashed. Well I was wrong Sings MAY BE BETTER? But in many areas of the world In my birth countries United States included women are still treated as if they were sexual minorities and from the sympathy. I've always felt for women being treated as sexual minorities. I recognize that smaller actual sexual minorities gay men Lesbian Women. Transgender men and women were treated even worse. I'm dismayed that and tolerances still tolerated forty years after I was writing about it but it is. That's why I say it's not to me entirely good news that the world according to Garp is is still relevant and why I say it should be a period piece. So that's why I mean I was complete. I thought we were getting a period piece and we get this full on assault on. It seems to me anyway. Own Attitudes gender and sex roles and all those things that you might expect reading a very contemporary novel. Now Yeah and I mean violence all the way through advise. It's unbelievable what he was saying that that people were saying to you when you were kids. You shouldn't be reading this. Because of some of the things that he says about women but other people were saying well you shouldn't be reading it because he says the opposite to what the first group of people were saying you know when you came back to it now how did you how did you feel about it reading it as a a a grown up in twenty twenty well. I think there are two levels that the book is interesting on one is for writers because it's so much about writing even though the the irving says it's not that's that's not true is that right that's important and the other thing is the sexual politics and the thing is the books that he drew up until then Do have a very sort of seventies failed about sexual politics. It's Zany thing where everybody's having every chapter you know it's very sort of disturbing and Beta in this but it's so different to the sexual attitudes in a John Updike novel lower. You know so ballard novel or Roth No we know he does he really gets involved with Gender Politics Fail Asli and without some steering it towards the male campus of the male writers. Do but at the same time there are. There is sort of incredible. Sexual Graphic nece about two and a he does right so much that rape and abuse and bad men doing terrible things to women. But at the same time you've characterized going around sleeping with prostitutes and that's just the possible. That's fine that's okay. It's very unusual. Former sexual politics. It feels a one hundred very enlightened but on the other. It's written in a time where you know. I mean maybe because it's creates maybe because it's that kind of that kind of morality. It feels very sort of confusing in that way I mean and and also obviously the connections and he went to university in Vienna's have lots of his nobles sections of the NFL. But the idea of going with your mother to Vienna and your mother buying prestigious for you and I mean when I read I mean. He spent like something happened. I was saying it was really weird reading it as a child and thinking that's the adult world is like in a so so when I read that when I was too young to not best I was just thinking oh well maybe when I'm eighteen a with my mother generates these prostitutes and that will be fine. Everybody will send kids lovely. I'm was it on muscles case of would you make of the sexual politics of it when you read it in the year. Two thousand fourteen. Well it's interesting because Just the fact that map twelve John Irving in that forward that you just quoted him reading from to the full two year anniversary. I think one of the reasons. He says that he gave it to his son to read when he was twelve and he was worried nervous. About what the Sun would sink. And I'm thinking now was he worried that we all essentially fiction thinking that it's the guy to remain annual living so like my one when he's reading he'll goes a have you know sexual favors delivered to him. Cuts mothers purchasing power Whether John Irving thinks that's going to happen to his child it's it's really interesting when you read it. I think that the sexual politics are very honest and he kind of is so under the skin of feminism of that time and serve respectful of it at so many points in the book and also just really hates. It's just really hates. The factor the feminist who feels most daring to me which is his mother. He's a very strong mall. Might character and annoys lotteries that she can constantly quiz him on male lust and constantly intervene about male lust and constantly. Ask about it and not know it. And he's just like enough already with the male lust questions but he also is so sympathetic to feminism to the Trans situation and he said some weather he keeps well. He kept writing the Trans character into all his books. Roberto so can some form or another in all of his books and that huge identification as Matt has set with women and women's Politics Female Mus and female. The primacy of female needs urges discrimination. All of that is done actually very respectfully at many points in the novel and then it's torn down by call in moments of sort of pitiful anger. He's not very sympathetic when he says feminism. Don't you think don't you think it felt to me like a book? Clearly written I and I think what you're both saying is is spot on actually. It's a book written in America in the seventies where many royces a trying to make sense of what's been shaken down by the so called. Permissive Society. Is You know what happens in. What's happened in the sixties? Why I so interesting about. Reading over is a might not get it totally right. But he's a lot more respectful as you suggest of lots of aspects of it or seeking to find balance in a way that I think other more Lionised male American Reuters. Probably weren't trying to do you know they're trying to see exclusively from what does this mean for men. That's that's not what's going on in this book. He's trying to do it. Whilst also acknowledging the identity politics are by their nature. That's sort of Seventies. Centralism is infuriating so to be reduced to just one of many plural. Identities is infuriating. So He's trying as you say infuriating that's right that's that's right. That's one of the key notes isn't it? It's the bookies infuriated as a series of things past before the narrators I which infuriates him and God is himself infuriating in gap without giving everything away as for that in most in the ultimately by be by being a kind of a kind of gadfly It's a brilliant book. I have to say about family life as well. A brilliant book about about parenting about the dread the constant existential dread that will parents have the of of wanting to try and control the children and wanted to try to steer them away from danger. But at the same time knowing that in some that you have to expose them for danger for them to grow he did say Denise said that He. He alternated all the time between which currently light the best in the novel. And what what? The book for Longtime Jenny Fields. That golfs mother was a more important character to him than than God and she is a kind of magnificent character not civilized but as he say Nikita definitely. Mom I you know definitely. There's nobody in this book you can confidently say that's the that's the the calm steady moral core of the book the rule up in different ways. Well I think he's a very messy rights risen Ami that's one of the people don't like him they don't they don't like pros and they don't like the way that he he writes instructions things and I think some of that mess left in the boat you know. He talks again in the introduction. The key to mentioned He talks about how he originally started it in seventeen eighty six and then he started it with Jenny and then he started it with up and you know he would not still day. You can see that these are all sort of broken pieces. That aren't completely put back together. you know it's not I mean. I think that there's the two problems that people have with the quality of the pros and that kind of insistence on it to Kent Structure. With really then depending to do it but he somehow manages to get through all of that. I'm produce stuff that so goods so chapter by chapter an incident is that you don't care you know. The quality of the prose is always the relevant. I won't sit. Toolkit light thrown about that. Dickensian thing about his about how he uses plots not what. The plots are in his books but how he uses plot. I think that's one of the things that really distinguishes irving as Reuter. It's it's almost the sense you were talking about. Things being quotation marks plots in Irving's books in quotation. A thing needs to happen now reba. And so I'm going to Ping always it's also about whether he'll pull it off the isn't it. I mean there's that whole thing of putting massive chunks of novels short stories. I mean no hardly anyone ever done that because you know it's things like you know back in the classic like maybe two camera no don't care to but you to just have so much of a different novel in your book. I mean if you took the book collapse it only really works in a way. And that's why the film problems because it's a method of delivery these other stories at the same time. I'm going to read the blurb as we do traditionally on that listed and I've got. The Jack is the flap coffee from from the US first edition so before the before. This book was a bestseller and this was John Earnings first bestseller before John Irving had a great reputation. And this books arrived. You know. We're sort of familiar with irving represents. The readers publishes for two years ago. I was thinking how did they? Marcus markets right. So here's what here's what was on the Jackie of the US first edition and this will set it up for listens. You haven't read as well like the Great Nobles of the Post that moved profoundly and still echo in our moins allow. Now that's starting high. The world according to garp creates a populous world and persuades us to dwell in it for an extended time gulps world is an imagined one but it lights up the real world us with all its terrorism. Deloitte's it's themes of rage and love it's alternation between comedy and tragedy new power the main story in the world according to Gulp brackets and it is a novel. Filled with stories. Close brackets is over. That's publishes touch. Well is the man with a famous mother. A man who reaches toward fame himself. Jenny field is the black sheep daughter of an aristocratic New England family. She becomes almost by accident. A feminist leader ahead of her time her son. Tes Cope named for a fall but he never saw has high ambitions for his artistic career but he has an even higher obsessive devotion to his wife and children surrounding Gulp and Jenny are wide assortment of people schoolteachers and hose wrestlers and radicals editors and something. I can't read. Editors in Reuters transsexuals and rapists and husbands and wives. It is John Special gift all his characters even the lease lovable among them arbitrate. Not just vividly but affectionately the pace and language of this novel or edits gulps life and career explosive with energy full of Roybal. Dri and sense of drama in three previous novels. Jona established himself as one of the most imaginative Reuters of his generation with his new novel. He has taken a quantum leap forward. The world according to the goal is a work of extraordinary narrative power rich humorous and wise. I mean I'd like to. John Irving wrote that. Most interesting is that. There's a lot of positive visualization going on in Gob because gopro bestseller doesn't he which we call the word wilt according to the world according to something else but he writes the bestseller and then this becomes a best seller. I kind of like that. Yeah Mesa same thing. Nabokov used to do where. He puts his nose in a fictionalized versions of of his novels. But the thing is you think that maybe this is the first time He. He's writing about being a writer. Because you might say well okay. He reached that point in his career where he wanted. The senator wrote a bestselling novelist but other earlier books. That are about Novalis as well so he was always writing about himself from the very beginning and and I think people don't like books about Ryan says I love books about but I think writers often often do but I think the way two ways that he makes it acceptable in this one is he. He writes in the third person. So you don't have the sense of John Irving too closely later on rewrote another book into the third person because he worked for that that very same reason and the other thing is he surrounds himself with normal people who come up when I noble placeman than regular everyday. Tartus come up to him and have an argument with him and say you know. Why should anyone be interested in what you're say? So we have a sense of the real world being around him and I think that's probably what made it one of the things that made a bestseller. Is He puts it makes. It seem like a desirable job but then put in a world of other jobs that really desirable and doesn't make the right to this incredible here and figure he makes some kind of tragic person rather than you know. What would happen in other when you know when for example writes about righteous and he always wins the argument and he's always the best character and everyone else has to buy into him with this. He makes up the caterer. I found a list on the Internet. Things one can expect to find in Irving novels. And so I'm going to read this out to you and I want you to choose your favorite right brilliant so which of these is the single most. Look forward to finding journaling. Noble is it Bez New England hotels Vienna wrestling sex violence or writing fiction. Who so I mean? It's definitely not as a New England New England. I'm not looking for New England. It's probably sex because it sex delineates character in this incredible way is also part of plot. All of the tension is usually in what happens during sex and also the recompense for the Sexual Act. Isn't it people to connect will rewarded yesterday sexual misdemeanours and that is very interesting? And there's a lot of humor around it probably sex crime and punishment. That's a big thing irving right. There's a there's an and the death wish this is the the death wish is a thing in this book we've seen you know I was reading it. I was thinking about the death wish and I was thinking I'm not so sure I it just straight up fear of death so he puts it in to tackle the greatest fear. Paul part of the plot is linked to trying to believe that you could live on after that greatest fear but also is very also. He does that thing of some characters. He kills drama. Yeah some characters. He kills fee matic necessity and those those that he hasn't killed for drama or massive necessity. He does a round up to the end of the book to give you a dentist. He feels the book has an ended unless it's not the end. An underlying in bold. Unless he's killed ruin. I mean right. I mean pro spoiler here sometimes he jumps sometimes he jumps forward well. That doesn't need that so I mean that's I find very unusual. I mean some other people have done it. I think probably influenced by him as well where you know. He'll describe a character in the middle and say character died in this way ten years later twenty years later so he does things with time you know. He's constantly move. He's always looked like every time we meet some of the he looks at the whole life. They're just a small character. The you'll have a character Who Trump's up back together doesn't tying up loose ends doesn't he's got that kind of Dickensian. The Kenyan thing definitely wanting to make sure that you will the right to the very last pages of the book that you know where everybody's ended up so got was irving's fourth novel and Here he is in two thousand eighteen again talking about what the publication of the novel meant for him. It was my fourth novel. I had learned something from the experience of writing the first three. But it was my first novel with A social subject my first political novel my first protest novel as I would describe it and it was written at a time personally of considerable duress. I was a fulltime rusting. Co Two full time English teacher and I had two young children and I was lucky if I got to write for as many as two hours a day and not every day of the week so whatever I sink of Garp with hindsight I'm eternally grateful to it because it is the book that made me a fulltime writer. It is the book that eventually enabled me to write seven hours a day. Eight days a week it freed me from having to have other jobs and I never imagined at the time I was writing it that I would ever be self supporting as a writer. I had no reason to think would be Nikita case. Could you read this a little bit of this implausible bestseller half? Well the bit I was GonNa read is actually all about this idea. That was referencing earlier. Where the active writing is torn down several times and the Roy was put in. His place will replace regularly in the book. So it's about halfway in and it's when up get some hate mail of his own second book yes Gert Gerson which who later by someone who took offense at second wind of the cuckold was wonderful. Book title. It was not a blind stuttering spastic. Fatter as you might imagine. Caesar it was just what go needed to lift himself out of his slump. Dear Shithead I have read your novel. You seem to find other people's problems very funny. I have seen you picture with your fat head of her because you can laugh at bold persons crew book you can laugh at people who can't have orgasms and people who aren't blessed with happy marriages and people whose wives and husbands are unfaithful to each other. You ought to know that you have these problems. Do not think everything is so funny. Look at the world shithead. It is a pain people's suffering and nobody believing in God will bringing up their children. Right you shithead. U-turn have any problems so you can make fun of people who to yours sincerely? Mrs Rb Pool Findlay Higher. That lets stunk up like a slap. Rarely he felt so importantly misunderstood. Why did people insist that if he were comic? You couldn't also be serious and it goes on to talk about how he thinks that people mistake being profound being sober but very amusing section and he engages doesn't so much again resonances with today with social media in trawling. An- not getting. You're so locked into a so much of this book that that feels as you said right at the beginning of the incredibly contemporary when you were reading indicator I was really pleasantly surprised how funny the bouquets on the kind of a on the atomic level that yeah. He's got such a good area for. It's quite muscular. The Pros Matt was saying about the the question marks around the pros but he has a really goods rhythmic air for landing gag landing a one liner and justified. That's pool and she calls him had again and again. Yeah Yeah Yeah you know that he had that left it right. It just feels as if he must have had let that Louis. Yeah just just like you know he is names from from telephone directories yet. This is talking about being funny writer. I think I I learned this best from the Persona of my old mentor and first reader of my first novel. Kurt Vonnegut Oh who was one of the funniest writers and one of the most depressed men I ever knew and terrible. Things happened in his novels to. But if you have an instinct for comedy you can't control it. If you are a comic writer you will be comic and perhaps especially at the most awful times in literature. I've always felt that the better time the reader the audience is having right up until the car hits the wall. The more emotionally unprepared. They are for the car hitting wall. I I liked the idea of telling a story in a way that makes my audience. Feel this fun. This is until it isn't so matt that speaks to what we were talking about about it humor and also his boy does with plots. How do you feel that? He sees plot in Gulp or and in some of the other novels. It's interesting. I was watching the film with my son the other day. to prepare for this. I've watched it before but I wanted to watch it again. And he was saying that he felt like it. The entire film was about a side character. You would you'd have inefficient. Compared to films he watches. He just felt like. Why is it this this I mean it's a very low key performance williams? It's very good but I I kind of feel the up until this point when I think. I don't think you could sort of generalize about plots crosses books because I think the books are plotted a fairly conventional way than this one is. Because he has his breakthrough where he sought to put in other books and other stories. And and if you took all of the I would saw fall apart. It's really just a sort of I mean I think. His structural rule is is lives. The whole people's lives like we were saying but then as he goes on after this on. I'm slightly less keen on the on the books after that because I think he became too obsessed with the idea of being too Kenzi. Athough probably a lot of people said. Oh you're like Dickins. And then he started wants to be like kittens and then start putting in much more convoluted plots I mean. He has later on their birthdays and crimes. And there's much more of a sense that he that he's working very hard to plot it. What I liked about golf is. It's almost sort of plot Louis. But it's full of incident in who the pattern of it that people come in on page one and they do something terrible at the end. And but there's no real sense as you said earlier about people being punished for sexuality or behavior things like that. But that's not really likes macaroni. Could fail that. He really is really just enjoying. I can do this. Let me let me see what happens if a job. Listen you feel that the book is kind of. I mean it's not exactly sprawling but it's never stable it doesn't you don't feel that you're in the hands of somebody who's calmly narrating user at times when you feel. It has the potential. It might just fall apart. I I've got. I've got a quote here from his Paris Review Interview. I think every single part of this I would ask you as I read it. It's very sure to to think that what he means is the opposite of what he's saying John Irving. I'm not a twentieth century novelist. I'm not modern and certainly not postmodern. I follow the form of the nineteenth century novel that was the century that produced the models of the fool. I'm old fashioned a storyteller. I'm not an analyst and I'm not an intellectual stop true visit as any of those things are true right Also he realizes that in the book because he's Got Helen cops white excuse an academic and is constantly giving lectures on narration or narrative. All in he's in. It's almost as a way of saying I know this stuff but I'm not gonNA do it Stevens. Yes so you know. And the books got even approaching of the books that got rights. They sound like crazy books. I mean they have some relation to is is previous. But much matter versions. I mean these folks couldn't exist in the read second wind of the cold or or the the the Mad Juanita can I? Can I read a bit is okay? Yeah what I wanted to read is is Joan. Woo who's a is added to his response to receive one of COPS books This crazy so he's in this crazy. `Bout full of rape and violence and gawkers start juggling. Who's a very seems like a very decent and he's one of characters I like the most. I wish there were more more of its content decent decent stable stable exactly so this is Harry response to receiving this not boat and there was my my my my wife as an agent when she was watching the film and it's constantly walking into a publishes office and saying just published a book. Exactly as I wrote it keeps. That's not publishing words but clearly in Gotland this is this is so this is jungles response to God's crazy double what you mean. This is to one said it's a Joan Wolf. Wrote him after that? The more of this this is this is entirely too much spans. It goes on got back. You'll see I talk. Please drop it at least put inside. Why don't you take your trip? It would be good for you and for Helen. I'm sure and Dunkin can travel now county but insisted that is going to be a novel insisted that John Will Try and sell the first chapter two magazine go but never had an agent. Joe Was the first man to deal with gops writing and he managed everything for him just as he managed. Everything for Jenny failed as good. I mean you know the the thing about garment you saying the teacher about life imitating art. I mean this was a massive bestseller. I mean three million copies sold and You know sat on the top of the of the best seller lists and was shortlisted for National Book Award and was in the running for the Pulitzer was picked to the post by Chievo. It was it not only gave him as he rather modest. He said financial security made him incredibly wealthy wealthy enough to be not by a place in the Hamptons. Couldn't find a house light so he moved a house from New Hampshire and rebuilt it on the Hamptons? It's the sort of literary fame. I'm show some of the problems that people have with irving is because he was so successful. I mean he's kind of almost like sort of the archetype of the of the the great American male novelist of the of the late twentieth century. I've always found it strange that a book like this could be a best seller. You sound strange book. If you're going to break out from an elite all of the things he just said in his quote where he says I am nope price more than I am. Not The following experimental. It's the opposite of the Bob Dylan Song where he says. I am excellent. He Sang I'm not but he is. He's sort of postmodern joke in saying I'm not. How can that be a bestseller somehow? It doesn't feel like a best seller. It's very hard to summarize it. Even the blurb was failing someone when you read serving now here in twenty twenty which royces does remind you of Murakami a name sort of exercise together and I think I think that they do. They tell me is translated moving and I think he went into his early saw. But I think the indulgences and problems with later Murakami there in irving as well if it was and have exactly the same careers you know. That sort of you know with weights Murakami Writing Norwegian within that selling two million copies. It's exactly the same cribs. Like four or five books. Then big breakthrough then. These way would lay to and constant sort of Amazon about their status in the tree as in the literary Canon. Yeah as a sort of an American original. He reminds me of Randy. Newman he has this ability to see to create character and to make you know that thing. Randy Newman does the his. His songs are popular. The people he's satirizing. I can sort of say that with with With Irving because he is he takes in particularly in you take so many risks. He's on both sides of as we say loved by feminists despised by feminists. And I just think he's a he's a I don't think he's nineteenth century at all. I think that was brilliant reading that passage out. I think he is really mean. This is this is a modernist a strange. It's totally so generous in some ways even even within his other books. I mean I you know. I haven't read as many as map. I think garp is is is something oppo I tell you. He reminds apartment. It'll be the coming to him now and we heard that clip of him talking about I can see a lot of vinegar in In this book particularly I don't know about other ones but engulfed particularly the rights to the here minds. Me OF WHO? We did on bat listed last year. Stylistically doesn't really remind meals but in terms of because I listen to lots of serving interviews when I was preparing for the Shug and the the figure he reminds me of these Ray Bradbury in much. Some extent they ha. They both have a strong sense of as Reuters and as American Reuters and as American Reuters in the media they have a strong sense of their public persona and their figure right that kind of American philosophers salesman that that's what bradberry was and that's that really feels to me like what are we four. We come there. We got so many clips of Irving. Yes he so good at curated his own Persona so we listen to always closing waste. Closing always be closing. That's why shuts down all those characters at the end of the book you know. I'm I'm hitching up the wagon to the back of the horse and an hour here. I think that that's why it say satisfying flying as a book. Go up that he does finish it. And so many literary novels just build up setting psychology character and then fall off a cliff the minute something interesting happens but he is quite nice about. Right is right to use any. Because the Alice character doesn't finish novel quite respectfully every writer. And it's not I mean that's one of the things you're saying about reading as rights. I mean it's it's quite nice because it doesn't even you don't feel like irving where he so. Two million companies go publishes three books that one of the two of them. A complete failure is agents constantly. Saying to him. You'll just literally right. You're never going to send any companies and there's jealousy of his mother. That's just nakedly displayed. Really UNAPPEALING UNATTRACTIVE WAY forgot. I just wanted to do that. There's a little bit. Where he I think. This whole thing about the popular and the and the littoral where as often with irving I think he gets a minor character to to kind of To carry that that that that sort of debate forward is brilliant character who is the cleanup for the publisher in the book Gills e slow parts. And he you know he's also. She occasionally only twice as she ever wanted to. Keep a copy of the book with I with with Jenny's book the Alps Mums Book And the the feminist book and the second was was mad that John Will. The publisher had sold. He got serialized in crotch shots a porn Mac because he despised it so much but she likes it and he says what is well. I like it because I read it because I want to know what happened. And then she asks rather kind of shyly arson for copy and says why she said you know you go. You thought you were so now you know what happens and why would you want to read it again? And she's I might need to lend it to and he says well would you ever read it again. You'll sell John Wolf. Well Jill's he said not all of it. I imagine at least once or not right away again. She looked confused. Well she said sheepishly. I guess I mean there's parts of it. I wouldn't mind reading again. Why John will I law? Josie said Todd. Haley is if she would making finally impatient with him. It feels so true she crooned making the word true cry like a loon of a lake at night. It feels so true. John repeated laud. Don't you know it is them? You don't know when books true Julie Sang Him. We really ought to trade jobs. She left now. The stout prone plug of the vacuum cleaner cooled clutch like a gun in a fist. I do wonder Mr Wolf. She said sweetly if you know when a bathroom was clean she away or when a wastebasket was empty. She said a book feels true. When it feels true. She said to him impatiently books. True say yeah. That's just how damn people behave all the time. Then you know it's true. It's says that's my favorite scene in that in that. Listen we have to? We HAVE TO WRAP. We have to so before we go. I'm going to ask you Intern in the kitchen. You listeners. Who haven't read John Irving. Maybe they've reading before they they've read Garp. They've come back to go up. Which John Irving noise they read next? Probably prefer meany. I'd say that would be a good one to not next. Could compare and contrast if you're GONNA go deep well that's the lowest one on no. That's not loss when I read. That's the first one I read when it came out and You know I can still remember whole chunks of that book remarkably clearly which will be calm. Lots of things. I read thirty years ago. So yes Matt Imerese. Maybe until I find you. I think that Dickens influence hit hard with highs rules in the next kid and then I think he gets back to his way. An older teen all the strangeness. In until until I find you it's it's too long. And it's too rambling. It and it makes gop seem completely sensitive in the fact that you know go. Radio only covers his life to mid thirties. in this book goes right so it's twice because his life's twice as low But I think if you liked Jonathan wanted more of the same I think until I find you would be the one that I'd I'd recommend following out with. I just like to add that it was only when I was reading the world according to Garp the could to me that You Know Irving in several films of Irving's work He wrote the screenplay for soy to house. Rules says the film Gulp not you recommending door in the floor which is a year and it was only when I was thinking about those things and thinking. Wait a minute now. War Is this book reminding meals. Oh Yeah it's reminded me of forrest Gump except forrest. Gump is rubbish. For if it's gone like this explains what forrest gump is rubbish. John Irving film in your Rimba Jordan ambition behind I come and also the oil over a a titular character. He has a thing wrong with them. Who OPENS UP A VISTA OF AMERICAN HISTORY? Except and this is the tricks John Irving. It's no good and it's also really conservative. Wherever reservations we've we might have expressed about. Yeah he's a fair Reuter Nikita. These guys what you were saying. At the beginning he is prepared to see things from all sorts of points of view. Even things that you the reader might not immediately identify with. I think that stand to his honesty. It's as though he's made pact with himself to be honest and not to lie and therefore there's an ugliness that has to come out but there's also a deep river of respect that comes out so he's always talking to be honest or even handed even in each situation even though as has been said he does get it wrong sometimes and he. You know he can be. We sort of not politically correct. But then when did you ever read a book? That was good. That was deeply politically. Correct all the way through Joan. Lets wind up is a brilliant brilliant place to end. That's it thank you to the kitchen map for taking us back to that strange and violent but weirdly familiar land of America in the seventy s to Nikki Birch for juggling distant voices and weaving them together with the skill of a great American novelist found for one small finishing a virtual table. You can download all one hundred ten sizes this plus fully links clips and suggestions for further reading by visiting our website about this Doodo FM and contact us on twitter or on facebook and you can also now show you love mall directly by supporting our paychecks at patron ww patron dot com forward slash blacklisted. We have done this really to keep listed going We love doing the shows. We want to keep the quality high. We don't WanNa have to depend on intrusive paid for adverts where I talk about trousers and I'm sorry to those of you. Who ENJOY THE TRANSRAPIDS? But they arrive on. Let those go on a say. Just a small gesture of financial support will help us do that. All patients get to hear about listed episodes early and for the price of too fancy coffees the lot listener level gets you to extra focus on where we Anti Nikki and I go of peace and we talk about music. Film Television and our as books than wide lights do is Cape Matt and indicates hostage. And we'll three hour book Dylan poco. Yes time for its anyway. Listen we've been amazed by the sport so far so as promised here are a few names the first year of recklessly generous master storytellers pulses. They get the law and our undying gratitude. Neither cheap nor easy to come by is the honorable guilt. Nasty storytellers and we have in Walker. Clara Abraham's Grant Samphier Melissa Gray Chris Jones Stewart. Hewer JEN SHENTON and John Dennis. Thank you then we could do. I add some lock listeners. From the roll. Call of honor. Here I think you could definitely do. And you're should we sing them in kind of NO DYLAN WAY? Let's not boy Dylan thank you. That was bad. He gave us some money. There was Brian Kirkland Clad Joost Steven. Great thank you. Eleanor Robson Gary. Cain Jackie patience. Thank you very much. Alex Tobin Montiel Roseanne Spencer. Jim Post Mar- Ben Meadows sank you off. Martin Sellers Cliff Morris Catherine Right Alison pomme Jonathan Wilson. Simon Harper. Josh Lewis striker. I'm finally we'd like to thank Lorraine Anne and Alex Preston as mentioned Boy Matt Fooling earlier on military cost. Thanks Alex thanks you too very nice man. We'll be back at listening. We'll be back in thought night or indeed sooner if you sign up.

John Irving Nikita Lonnie Matt Zone writer John Irving Jesse Nikita United States Vienna twitter Nikki Nicholas Royle Jeanette winterson England Nikitas Bob Dylan Roy publisher Jenny
VP Irving

First Take

53:34 min | 6 months ago

VP Irving

"What's going on everybody? I'm Molly Karen Rose and you're listening to the first. Take podcast if you're hosting game day this weekend you have to make sure your freezer stocked with Tyson crispy chicken strips crispier than ever there the GO-TO option for any game day occasion bigger small made with all natural ingredients in white meat chicken. Their high qualities. Perfect for your game day gatherings to please entire crowd next time. You're shopping for your tailgate. Food make sure to pick up. Tyson crispy chicken strips birthday. We'll be live from the grants tomorrow and Friday. Cleave Max Kellerman Max boxing five. Pm Eastern Standard Time to plug good looking out the the MVP has elected Kyrie. Irvings have replaced Powell Ghazal as VP of the players association after Gazelles Three year term ended ESPN NBA analyst. Kendra pershing's had this to say on sportscenter about Kyrie's new position in a leadership role to me. It's the blind leading the blind careers proven. All of us did. He's not a leader and I don't understand this for the life of me. Maybe he surprised the world and become this person overnight but when he was with the Celtics he wasn't a good leader and now he's in Brooklyn. We had several occasions where he goes under the bus. Or whatever the case may be saying. He don't need certain guys or he won't this guy back and it's just. I see those leadership skills in an perk. I Know Jeez. I'm sorry about the loss in the All Star game it was re it wasn't it wasn't and UCLA composer technical foul. I didn't mind it all got thrown out the Damn Game. I was so he. He's GonNa play next. Play next me. You WanNA trade happening. This is how y'all need me on your squad. Let's go to work on that. Max what's going on yesterday? Who just arrived. Stephen Talks about what he's GonNa Beg Afford. Jon Allen we got we got real stuff to talk about. We've got Jay Williams here. He's our basketball analyst. Stephen I'm going to start with you. Do you have an issue with Kyri being in this new leadership position because I do okay. I got a lot of carbon. I let me say this list layoff Kendrick Perkins in this regard I I called Kendrick Perkins and I thought he was wrong about the whole k. D. Situation you a teammate discern you don't say and you try to provide insight to that gives the wrong impression. This is just basketball analysis looking at the issues that Kyrie Irving has had and the games that he's missed and playing the leadership role Kurt Kendrick Perkins perfectly within his right to say that. Because that's one on the outside looking in it made you say ouch. But nevertheless from an outsider's perspective. I can't blame where he got. I won't go there hardwood career because I know Kyri a little bit and we talk and I got a lot of love warm and I get and I think I have some insight into how he is. Here's what I will say what I do like about. This is that it should apply more pressure on KYW RE to show up when he's there he's delivered and because he averaged twenty seven game and we know what he can do all right. I'm simply saying Damn Bro. You already missed thirty. Three Games this year K. Da Come to Brooklyn the play by himself. This team is a solid team even without Kyri. But we're Kharian K. D. If Kyrie brings his game I know what? Kt going to. And I'm looking at them as a title contender next. Ad Yukari Irvine. You Pride yourself be cerebral you. Pride yourself and being a thinker. It's very. You're very into making sure that what you do extends beyond the court of play because you want to have that kind of impact. Kyri just has to remember it all starts with you showing up to perform when you are not able to do your job for whatever reason people are going to question y you got another job master. What YOU DO I. We know what he can do when he's healthy. I'm just saying prioritize getting healthy. I'm not saying don't be on the MVP A I'm not saying be VP. I'm not saying. Don't add your level of intellect. Whatever the case may be what I'm saying is I don't want to see something Alpha priority over you on that damn court so him being in this position dealing with those players making that more of a priority than being no no. He's not out saying that. Being in that position is going to put them in a position where people say where you go play by play. 'cause we don't give a damn about the damn committee if you ain't playing. Chris Paul the President but he's also an all star. Let's remember that. Go Ahead. Y'All this is what this is what. Kyrie's election told me. No one must want that job and like if it sounds like negative towards Kyrie and going at Cairo very clear. Kyri is from the New York area. He was the first superstar. Because you've got the feeling like he was lower for K. D. He was the one kind of like really wanting to play. You know basically worries from. He was the first guy in maybe my lifetime at that level other than Carmelo Anthony. Who said I WANNA play on a New York team? I should love Cairo also sitting here saying and I've said before I think in the history of the NBA. He may be the most skilled player ever. There's nothing he can't do whether you always has the wisdom to properly deploy. His skills is another point but in terms of skills. It's absurd earth is handled through the best ever. He can shoot the lights out. He's the best finisher in the paint under the rim. Probably ever like it's ridiculous skills and yet guys now we have a huge sample size with the Celtics and the nets in both cases both teams performed the little better without Kyri then with him. At a certain point. It's not coincidence. I agree with Kendrick Perkins. He's a bad leader. We're hasn't learned how to lead yet number one number two Stephen. You talk about his intellect a lot. You know him personally I do not. I have seen zero evidence of Kyrie's intellect in a way that would be that would be impressive. I'm impressed by it. I'm talking about reactions to his social media ramblings. The flat earth thing like even if he was saying that tongue in cheek but the way he expresses himself on social media. It's very clear to me. He wants to be perceived as a Smart Guy. Maybe he is one. He has shown zero evidence to me from where I'm sitting that I would look at him. Go Yet kyrie's one of those real smart athletes you come across. Who's WHO's just a real real bright guy. There are athletes. You come across like that where you say. This person's bright period not by standards of an athlete by standards of human. It's a really smart person. For example Kobe Bryant was a brilliant guy talked to Kobe. Whatever is measured? I Q was. I'm sure it was extremely high. He was a very smart guy. And you come across. Kyrie very desperately. It seems to me wants to be perceived that way has shown me no evidence so maybe because he does seem to elicit some kind of loyalty from some of his teammates. They speak well of him some of his teammates and feel he gets a raw deal and so okay. Maybe he's showing it to them and here. He did get elected by his peers. And maybe it is a job people actually want. Maybe I'm wrong about that okay. But I'm saying I have yet to see the evidence of the intellect that you referred to back so I've seen the intellect Kyri is bright so I will say this is extremely polarizing. Because him on the court he becomes emotional And I think he's still learning maturing in that regard as a leader for a team and I look. We've all been up here and we've all had multiple conversations about the way. Kyrie has led on the court. I will say this because I think it's really critical. The put this into perspective for everybody as it relates Stephen as to how the how the union is orchestrating this so. Cpi three is the president. Yes Okay Andre. Dalla is the first BP so Kyrie being be six other VP's exact okay. So he's not second empower that is Andre etc. Who Second Empower? He's one of six other people this correct. Because he's been on the sideline for all these years watching the way that Paul saw. Cpi three and all. These guys have orchestrated that so actually give him a lot of credit that he's trying to learn and I will say this you know. Obviously we have the boardroom. You've been on a boardroom cave. We talked about paying attention to the business of sports. If you look at the way that Kyrie is going about his business off the court. L- look at a lot of shoes. His shoes are always top top threshold of his shoes being sold the way. He's the detail that he's focused on with. How he delivers the product. Look at what he did with uncle drouet. He is a student in that regard. So I do like seeing Kyri going direction. I think the on the court group is a completely different conversation. Conversation is focused towards him and his business and understanding that as far as the BPA. I like it on the court. We can have that conversation. We want to go in that direction too. That's a different conversation right totally. And that's that's the thing what I'm saying. Is that first of all when we say on the court literally talking about him on the court because when he's on the court there is no question the balanced by spectacular? All right off the corner. Somebody that talks to I find career to be very I find. I read a be somebody. That's very astute. Very smart about a lot of things. Max. There is no dummy in Kyrie Irving. He's a smart brother then. There are times that he goes a bit overboard and tries to be a bit too intellectual as opposed to simplify things but he has no dummy. He is smart. He's a thinker. I think the problem with careers that at times he thinks too much about things that are relatively simple. It ain't that complicated Kyrie. Don't worry about it but I certainly wouldn't sit up and say I've seen no evidence of him being smart or intelligent Max. I think that's going to follow and I think that's I think that's disrespectful. And I honestly think that right and I just tell you the truth the Truth Stephen. I tell you the truth it I tell you. I see it his social media ramblings which are poorly written. He's bad at expressing himself at least in the written language period. The ideas are not interesting and they're and they're poor. I will say this not an. That's right according to me. That's right according to me and that's okay. Do you put yourself out there. You're going to be critiqued period now Jay Williams what you say about his business. Accurate has to be acknowledged. You're right his shoes do sell. And it's not just because he's a spectacular player their fresh shoes and they're marketed. Well and that's to his credit and he has done other things in terms of his business including when he puts his name on something. It's generally high quality and that be speaks some kind of intelligence. I agree but I'm talking about his his his apparent to me need to be perceived as a smart guy and yet he betrays himself when he starts expressing himself. So I'm curious to see how that works out in the context of the Union Hotel magazine players. He is Max Max. I'm saying because of a because of how incendiary remarks respect where you come from. But you gotta give us an opportunity to respond. 'cause we can't leave it there and the point that. I'm trying to make your Kyri. You could make the argument that at times. He's tried to haul one of the reasons why because Cari is one of those people as they think. Ajay correct me if I'm wrong. He's sensitive to how stuck is going to be received and by whom at odds and so on one hand he wants to be very candid and forthcoming in another hand. He wants to guard against it. Being missed misconceived to some degree and as a result it becomes a bit challenging to him because he has to worry about the fallout from time to time. It didn't there are other times. Where he said. Damn the fallout what. He said he gets in trouble with that as well. So you gotta go back and forth. Sometimes that is a challenge for somebody that does is talking on the court and doesn't have the platform that we have and I think we have an obligation to be sensitive to that and not question. The man's intelligence because of it. I'll agree with you. I grew also says you know look. Psychologically seems like sometimes he's in purgatory he doesn't he should or should not and he's constantly balancing that line. I also say this Stephen A. The fact is fascinating to me because when he's on the court Correa's one to one right. Curry is one of one him and Lebron kind of class a little bit and leadership style. But that's why he also isolates himself. He's Kinda that's why he was attracted to Kobe right. Two of those guys are like we're talking. I think difference. They talked all the time. So I think this is fascinating because now I'm watching Kyrie degree acquiesce a little bit. And say all like I'm trying to learn more I want to spend with. Cps Help Andrea. It also helps because he knows in Brooklyn at least in the case K. D. K. D. He has K D's full support yes K. D. Is going back this brother? Katie believes not just as a player but as a person that's man that's number one number two when we get back to the MVP a all. Say this. And I'm saying this and ain't nothing that I won't say Kari's face since you're going to be involved in all of this understand equal dollars a champion. Chris. Paul is one of the greatest point guards. We've ever seen okay when folks look at. You contribute in this fashion. They're gonNA sit up there and say you sound to be Brooklyn. You'VE ALREADY MISSED THIRTY. Three Games when you. GonNa be on the court. They're going to ask those questions. I know I'm the last questions because I understand the legitimate. The injuries are legitimate. But then there's so many of them and it's like then. Are you getting that fragile? What kind of physical problems do you have that we don't know about because every week we turn around you and even though we didn't expect much from you the bottom line is they've had a better record with you without you? The is no K. D. The show stopper that you are folks to showing up to the ball. They sent a hope in the Cu Inane. See You more as much as they do. You think this big as big of a deal because I remember a couple of months ago we were talking about. Nobody cares what it's doing. They've finished in cancer care. I actually don't I think it's a wash. Would you mean I feel like I feel like this season is going to be a wide matches whole thing with Kyrie shoulder the shadows of it? Who knows it's going to be all buttons? Go ahead Max. I would refer you to the November twenty seventh two thousand Nineteen Instagram Post. Kyrie meg where he thought he was making some profound statement across in fact it was miss capitalized punctuated and and came across as an entitled. Athlete insulated. Actually from or with the kind of warped view of himself I would free. I would refer you to the the earth. It may not be round comment. Which after some controversy he claimed didn't act up national quarter or other examples. Also let me stop you. An actress question. Max We are in the business of speaking in communicating. We're not ball. Plays at least not on that level right. You haven't made mistakes. I haven't made mistakes. Other people have made mistakes with what we have written or what we have said. I mean think about all. I'm trying to say you could come to me. I know more instances than that. We're REMAI- have miserable. He made a mistake or he may have come across as a bit less lateran that he would have chosen to as we have. That doesn't mean that. There's an absence of intelligence. It could be a bad moment. That's all I'm trying to say. It shouldn't divined who e-except say no I thought thought it spoke to. I thought it spoke to the way he was thinking about things. The way he was contextualising. Things the kind of sense that he was being victimized. I agree it's tied to immaturity as the kind of NEAT. I remember as a young man wanting even now you could say Max you want people to know how smart you are so it's really there's an insecurity there somewhere but whatever that is. I certainly noticed that in Cairo. And then if you're going to be that way than when you finally do make a statement. It should be able to see boy the person who said this. There's an intelligence here. I xe yet to see that knows. Public statements from Kyrie Irving and now he's leadership position that requires thinking now. It was not a good one I went to business has shown acumen around. I got it but I'm not going to challenge you because you are entitled to your opinion. That's what this show is all about. All I'm going to say is I'm in my fifties you and your forties brothers in his twenties. I mean give him a break. In that regard I mean to sit up there and talk about an absence of intelligence. Come on Bro. He's in his twenties and he's accomplished a lot. And if you talk to the brother I don't think you would say that Kyrie. Urban is not smart. Not Maybe not. But if you're going to be the reason that's okay Stephen is because he puts himself out there. He wants to be part of his brand. He pounds his chest downs elegance. I can refer you to numerous examples of how smart he is okay. He's still young. Will you try to make mistakes? Perhaps this leadership opportunities gives them an opportunity for growth and it's up to the place and it may be something that works out for the nets and Kyrie and all the players in the NBA. As well ever been knocked down. You know suffer descent. Backfired left out it happens. It happens a Mike. Bloomberg middle class kid worked his way through college. Got A job started. A family boom fired at thirty nine. Would it Mike do or a lot of us? Do we got backup dove back in. He had an idea designer new computer able to quench data and process information in a unique way he built it. He sold it. He built more. He sold more. He built a team he built a company created. Twenty thousand jobs. Bloomberg is a doer. This is Michael Douglas. I played a president and movies. This is real world. This is our World Mike. Bloomberg has what it takes to win in the country. Find some common ground between Democrats Republicans and then lead the way a leadership. Mike will get it done. I'm Mike Bloomberg candidate from President. And I approve. This message paid for by Mike Bloomberg. Twenty twenty welcome back the first we are coming to you. Live from above the Heineken River. Pier seventeen seventeen. The duo James Harden and Russell Westbrook have the Houston Rockets currently in the fifth spot in the West as teams begin their push towards the playoffs in a recent article. The two stars were asked if there aren't any missing pieces for a championship arte responded. We got everything westbrook followed with. Yeah we're good all right Guys before it gets to the basketball question. I just want to say I thought the G. Q. Cover and the whole photo shoot was dove was to me a couple of pitchers of questionable. But I got admit there was some pitches with James Harden and Russell West but they will look for. I was like this and I I gotta get those outfits get those outfits they were there were looking small. I was thinking about you. Give credit where credit was thinking to myself. Damn I want those bank accounts that I have see James on a Russell Westbrook when an outfit that I wanted to wear it was a couple of photos in the I was like. Damn I got call. My Man Charlie Hoffman. I got I got I got to get going on. He paid tribute to outcast. That was agreed cultural culturally task house basketball wise to do you agree that. Westbrook and hard at the rockets having do agree it. Here's what I mean by that. I don't have them winning the championship. But I don't believe that you look at this roster in terms of they've made a decision Jay we going small we smallman and it really comes out. And it's not supposed to Daryl Morey about. This is what it comes down to this. James Harden a Russell Westbrook. If they play like the superstars they are going to beat them. In the way. Take anybody they can take anybody. It's just west of the whether or not they gonNA play likes installed postseason. You can't twenty percent fifteen point. You can't sit up ahead and let Damian Lillard give it to you if you the west because somebody likes to just use the hypothetical because of what happened laughs get against Dame Tom you James Harden as much as I don't think he choke like Max's said or whatever but I do believe obviously clearly. He's played better regular season that he's had deep into the playoffs. If James Harden shows up and he's Briggs is eight game and Russell Westbrook breaks his game and they're playing small ball who the hell they'll stop this offense as a as a betting man betting on that. I'm not kidding you're saying if I've seen it which is why I said you say. Do they have enough. Yes because if those dues bring that game. I think they could take anybody. I just don't know if they'll be able to bring that game against the clippers or the Lakers. That's me but I'm just looking at them office. I'm like my God who the Hell's GonNa stop them. They made a commitment to small ball. And I'M NOT GONNA lie to you. It's scaring the hell out of being a good way. Because I have no problem being h town June. It does not ask. I like h h down has been Betty Betty. Good to me because a lot of your opinions Stephen. A are based on the weather and other absolutely the weather absolutely without question whether the point that. I'm trying to make to you that whether it does matter in hot enough it does it. Does matter does go ahead. I agree with them. They have enough in the sense. That when you look at each piece they they have the guys who who do the job you want them to do. The team is constructed enough to win a championship. The question is are. The talents of some of those pieces pitched high enough to complement harden and Westbrook to win a title again. I think yes but they're not pitched so high that you would make them the favorites so it's possible that they can win. They have all the pieces and their talents are good enough that you can't rule them out but they're not want they're not the odds on favorite or the second most likely even to win. The thing that must be said is the commitment to small which I mentioned right away gives them the punchers chance increases the punchers chance that they have to win the whole thing. That commitment really is the reason that you can't rule them out when you look at the team that lost to Golden State in game seven at home. It took one of the worst shooting nights in the history of basketball for them to lose by single digits to a fully loaded. Katie Steph Curry Klay Thompson. Draymond Green Warriors team that wound up winning the championship. That's how much that's how good some of those rockets players were. But also the system the warriors way more talented than rockets on paper. That should not be a seven game. Series decided by single digits and yet it was and the only reason in my view. I know you feel differently. Steven you think this gold state words with a ratcheted up their game they needed to. Maybe they would've but in my view the rockets lost because bad shooting including by their leader. James Harden that's why I thought it was a choke jogging that guy to step up. He didn't he was missing shots but everyone was missing shots. When you look at this team they have the lengthy kind of switch defender that they need in Covington who can also shoot a three. They have the attacker in Westbrook and they can play five out because he can surround him with shooters. They can push the pace. They can do all the things they need to. Pj Tucker who can hit the corner three and could play defense and all the things they have all the pieces. You need to do it. But the talents aren't pitched high enough to make them favorites. Love watching this team. Play as a guard. It's like a glorified a basketball game and it's different because that's unique. Pov that we don't see in the game of basketball especially in the NBA. I don't think it's enough though and I'll say because strategy I got a chance to talk to a couple of scouts in one coach. And he said Hey Jay. This is when things are going to change when you get into the playoffs. We're going to designate. One person to meet Russell Westbrook off made Emmett shots early full length. So he doesn't get a running start so we limit him transition we will then in the half court back off of him and then play a man in the middle if you have bigs if your L. A. Or of your team like the clippers and you have mantras. Herro you play a Guy Centerfield this clogs paint. Stop Them from driving and half court so then it comes out. Do jump shooting now. I think James Harden could get hot. There is a question about him if you look at the history of him getting hot in the playoffs where he'd be. That's a legitimate question. But I start looking at other guys. Covington Era Gordon Ben mclemore Daniel House. Pj Tucker will they be able to make enough shots if you limit guys like Russell Westbrook and transition you make Russell and you make James Horan the guy even if he drops thirty a game. I don't think they have enough pieces to plays different styles of basketball than the way they play one style and if the thing that we've seen in the NBA you have to be able to change your style which you play. Well they can do them Jay. Our China don't have personnel. Challenge you on that there. Are there have been champions? That played a style and said this is what we're going to do which going do about the small. Boston relaunched small. I'm just simply saying that. They have been champions in the past. Whether it's the Bulls whether it's the Pistons whether it's the lake is whether it's the San Antonio Spurs this is who we are but those styles Biz Cowan. No no I'm not. I'm not challenging. I'm only challenging the notion that you must. You must be diverse. Okay in order to win. I'm saying that there are those that were not diverse. They like this. How we're going to beat you. Would you go do about it and what I love about Houston if this was Daniel House or it? This was every Gordon and somebody even do. I respect those guys. It would be different. The two cornerstones for this franchise right now. James Harden and Russell Westbrook would want saying we have enough where it what they're doing is letting you know we're coming. This is what we don't do. We don't force y'all you know what y'all when compared to do a damn thing about it. That's what they're saying. And that's what I like because the bottom line is that question more. We know what everybody else is going to. For the most part they're gonNA make him this shots. Okay they have good nice. They go have bad nights depending on what we think about the Houston Rockets. Is Dan Tony? System and James Harden Russell Westbrook feeding off the Russell. Westminster plan out of his mind. But I agree with you because that's the same thing I heard. We will have somebody following him wherever he goes. Make ALL MISS WE GO MIRROR. And where are we gonNA shadow where he goes James Heart? You know what he could bring you. GonNa let him dribble the ball and he'll dribble the ball and to ten twelve journals before he does something they're saying you we don't give a damn. How are you going to do it? We the ones that's going to do it. Go find out. I like that like but is that enough just because they say I'm not sorry guys that can say come on the show but is it always enough. All I'm saying to you is this. There are people who have said it and have backed it up. I'm saying well let's find out do. Do you want to hear from anybody else? So you know I hear thank you. That's what I'm saying so we will find out and that's what I want what I think. And then there's one last thing guys that you take into consideration one last thing you know. I'd say Hey James Harden just don't choke right like at least your normal self. There's always the possibility that a superstar actually elevates think of think of Jordan and in any number of of finals games. Dwayne Wade Lebron. James learned to do it Dirk Nowitzki did it. What is hard and actually elevates when. They need him most one of these years. They'll win the whole thing. I don't know if they'd they'd be Milwaukee either. Just right if they don't win it this year. What do you do with that team? Because they went all in on that strategy as well. You're not afraid of anyone you James Harden an MVP. You thought he was disrespecting you a little with the way he was guarding you. And you're like tell that mother about me. What makes you be able to stand up and trash talk to anyone? Just don't care honestly I just feel like everybody put their shoes and stuff on the same way I do. So no reason to be afraid of anybody I came in this league to try to prove that I can compete with the best. And that's just rookie sensation. Jam rant. Speaking with our Rachel Nichols his Memphis. Grizzlies are currently in the eighth spot ahead of the Blazers. Spurs and Zion. Williamson's Pelicans he got them in the playoff ratio which rookie will be the bigger story at the end of the season. We'll it'd be jaw or Zion. Stephen Zion Zion because job Miranda's special and I love his upside and I got a I'M A. I'm a huge fan of John Moran but I think in the ten games that we've Seen Zion and the kind of impact he has had and the man in which he plays with the veracity the athleticism the strength to Samantha amongst boys as they said he's not even in shape and I think you look at that and I of the basketball world being on him. I think that's why when we asked a question about the biggest story by seasons in you can easily say him Memphis going to the post season argument and season. Okay you talk about jobs but the I think for me personally if the Pelicans continued upgrade him looking the way that he looks. And then you fantasize about what he's going to bring to the table. That's what you're going to be talking about. I think you'll talk about job. He's playing in the postseason. And that's what you say recognizing his greatness of course because he is a great talent. But Zion is just. You just seem to be on another level go. Max Zion Zion. Williams said Look John Ranch playing almost all star level out the Gate Zion Williamson's playing somewhere between like an all star and an MVP out the gate. It's absurd and there's room for growth you know like I I do one two three four five stars. One Star is a is a you know a role player a rotation peace etc right up to five which is an MVP's Zions already like a four and a half star player. It's absurd however they're only about twenty games. I think for most teams in the season less. That's a whole lot for Zion to try to make you know four and a half games out now to try to make the push against Memphis if John is in the Playoffs Stephen. Eight particularly as an eighth seed. It's going to be them. Going up against the Lakers. That will be a showcase Jaama Rhett so even those Diane Game. For game is better. Jaama rant will only get rookie of the year because he played a full season. But he's going to be showcased in the playoffs in the Lebron James Series in the ground and his performance. The on everyone's mind even though obviously they're gonNA lose. I'm going to say by the end of the year. We're going to be talking about John. Marin I'm not going to make a case if Memphis gives it a playoffs if Memphis doesn't get to the playoffs. I'm going to talk about defensive from this perspective right now because I can give a lot of different scenarios where maybe the. Pelicans make the playoffs right. If you look at the numbers from right now what is doing is literally next level. I mean he's rebounding averaging either a shot attempt or a rebound every time he touches the ball and his efficiently is efficiency. Level was over seventy percent. That's insane when you think about now. I'm not saying that that diminishes by any manner. What John Moran is brought to the game of Basketball John? Moran is exceptionally special if they get to the playoffs if he gets a chance to showcase against the Lakers great. I'm not betting on that. The fact that that young team can sustain that to make it in the eighth seed in the playoffs other teams. That are on the way up. It's not gonNA make moves in the second half of season. One of the things you learn as a younger player in the League is that your legs get really heavy in the second half of the season. Because you're not prepared for the length and you don't have the durability in the season and maybe wrong with John Moran but Watching Zion. Play the fact that he has gotten a later start. I think behooves him and getting an advantage with these. The last forty games are so last. Twenty eight Games thirty games. And I like the way that Zion plays because he just plays with that sheer energy and effort Stephen. He's an games he might be able to get you. Twenty five and twenty twenty five and twenty five just based upon his effort. And I'm saying the ball being in the hands of John Ray all the time to do something. I liked the position that Zion is on and plus. Let's talk about this. Honestly he moves the needle. He moves the needle media wise. Yeah their ratings. Go off the charts every time you watch him play so if he plays this way and continues to sustain that. There's only going to be more attention. That's GONNA come along. And who knows what they would have been doing. The Brandon Ingram healthy play. And there's only one game in which Zaire waves in this shot less than fifty three percent from the field one game. That's it and so when I look at it from that perspective and I just see the condom noise. He's making wild. They're struggling. Think about this for a second is great talent as John Moran is. We weren't talking about him that much before. Zyklon came on board. And so now the only reason you think about him is 'cause you comparing him to every evolves around Zano what else about. Zaire guys the ways in which you want them to improve are actually like already similar to the way you want to improve really. Zion is a center in the modern small ball era. He's probably best at the five and the already does so many of the things at such a high level. You want that guy to do the extra stuff he want we wanted to do is because we want him to have skills of three also which by the way he may continue to develop because he's already got a lot of them like his facts that he's already good right out the gate and there's obviously room for improvement is scary. I think I think if you ask has Zion. So far given US evidence to think he'll live up to be below or exceed expectations so far. The evidence to me says exceed expectations and the expectations were impossibly. I Max I did a little of an experiment the other day because I got a little bit frustrated on air because I was like. I wonder if we're doing so we came out of a highlight. We Show Zion. They're playing against okay. See we show Zaia walking in the tunnel we show Zion ten of thirteen highlights whereas I on and then we came out of it with the graphic where we compared to Michael Jordan. Stats in the I. I think. Twelve or thirteen games. He played then I started looking at house highlights and I started looking at bleacher report. Then I start looking at boxes so looking at all these other programs that were showcasing. The game and it was so similar. Then I watched Memphis highlights and they lose I might see one maybe two highlights John Morand so think about that infatuation that is worldwide. That is happening right now. In fact okay see won that Game Right Danilo. Gonorrhea had twenty nine here at one highlight in it. That's that's where we are was on. That's how much the media loves on so I do think in the media does dictate a little bit to a certain degree what people pay attention to. Because there's so many things out I will say the UN and props to our very own. Rachel Nichols for the interview that she did John. Rich did a great job with it what I love. I think we'll help chow. Moran is that he's unapologetic about his swagger confidence and how listen one many he's going at James Harden somebody better tell them who the hell I am? You know another minute. He's going at Steph Curry Audrey dollar backing up his team mate When you see stuff like that going on John Moran is going to make a name for himself when you turn around and you show up on the court and you shoot forty eight or forty nine percent from from from the field and you averaged seventeen and seven and your team is above five hundred en route to go into the playoffs. That is not something that we can ignore. So you desire is going to get to shine but Zayas play ten games. Josh pleased forty eight. Jaaz GONNA be rookie of the year. Let's just go. Are there enough games? I play to win rookie or are enough games. I think so you think so. Do you think there's enough game design play to win rookie of the year? Because here's the deal if meant false and Pelicans elevate signs GonNa get credit for that. John had to continue to help Memphis. I know John is an edge. Take comments like that. Oh Go ahead Max Clinics Zion is. I've just got over like fawning over him. John is also special he's not on Zion's level quite. Let's be honest he's like almost all stars ions beyond just normal all star already but Zayas not twice as good as job and he's GonNa play half the Games and MEMPHIS. I think is actually as likely as any other team to get that. Abc Line. I think Josh shoo-in for rookie of the year. Second Happy Two seasons I noticed. Scott it's like a quarter of the Tom Brady not touch more for funding. Took part in everything. Other than scrimmage. Alright high praise from Steve Kerr on his point. Guard steph curry meanwhile Kerr also says the former. Mvp is still on track to potentially return in early March despite not being cleared for scrimmages just yet so stephen a Smith I already know the answer even adamant all over and over about this. But what should the warriors do with Steph? Please listen somebody needs to take steph curry and Klay Thompson and I don't give a damn if you gotta locked him in a room and I don't Wanna I don't WanNa see Joe Lak- Mommy Steve Kerr Bob much stop it. I don't WanNa hear it. I don't care what Steph Curry says Klay Thompson. Let me say this. I speak from a position of passion and heart when it comes to these dudes. I love what these brothers me to gain. Dell curry the father of Steph Curry. Seth Curry Front of Steph Curry. I give the wife. That wonderful kidnapped this brother. We've seen what have you given us the last five years five straight trips to get off the screen. I went to camera on me five straight trips to the NBA finals three titles. You lost one after seventy three and nine season in game seven last year. Katie goes down and then clegg went up. They wound up basketball team. Then in firm are- you're still went six games with Toronto. They have given us so much. I want them back. I don't want anything compromising the season. Twelve or forty three twelve and forty three the seasons. Watch what you've done for the Bay Area. How you've returned basketball. You owe them nothing. You Owe us nothing. Take a rest cheile get just one hundred percent workout. Totally game team on play. They don't to be a basketball court to own them. I don't WanNa see him because I don't want anything to happen. Where you get another injury and you compromise next season because they will be back Klay Thompson and Steph. Curry is the greatest shooting back caught in the history of basketball. Make those about it. They GIVE BACK GO TO COURT. Next year they title be writing a mix of tell you right now. Don't let anything that Joe Lake Up. Listen to humane. Bob Myers Steve. Kerr I like you man. I like I really really do. Okay listen to me. Do not let Steph Curry and Klay Thompson. I Know Klay Cook. I worry about Click Michael Thompson. You have something colleague happening. They're not getting back on a day. Of course this year Steph Curry. Curries desk that the wonderful. Why Mama the gorgeous month stop back? Steph curry needs to stay the hell the court because we need you. This game misses you and we need you to seize your K. Was Far beautiful years. You'RE GONNA FOB. You'll give us a lot more because they pay. They got legit relaxed with a season. It's a vacation doughnuts would it? Max Don't usually yup originally. Of course I didn't want to play. Because is he wasn't going to and originally. I thought no Steph should come back if you can play this year but March had a joke. What is in March Steve Day? It doesn't make any sense Steven. They I want to read you. Something this is from real. Gm after the trade deadline. It's not just now and by the way I don't think Steph and clays windows are short right now. The way they shoot they can be valuable going forward into the distant future even if they're not as valuable as they are in the immediate future in twenty twenty golden state. Think about this and Stephen keep in mind how they draft and develop including Steph and clay. Those guys weren't sure thing superstars coming out of college and Dray. Okay hold on twenty twenty this year. They had their own first round pick. It's protected the top. Twenty The Dallas Mavericks Second Round Pick and the Utah Jazz. Second round. Pick twenty twenty one. They have their own first round pick. They have the Minnesota Timberwolves First Round Pick. Which is only top three protected the Denver and Timbale Second Twenty twenty two. They have their own first round pick and their second and the Raptors Second Round Pick. They got all these picks coming up in the next three years and in their hands they're more valuable than picks for another franchise. They're better at evaluating talent. They're better at using their imagination in terms of how to use that talent and they're better at developing that talent and fitting them into a system. So it's not just oh but Stephan Klay they gotta do something next year no Klay. I don't expect to be as good as he's going to be the year after next year. But having a healthy Stephanie Klee whatever version of them next year is immediately going to make them a playoff contender and the following year. They're going to be a finals contender. And they're going to not only have their first round pick that they drafted this year. They're going to have first round. Picks going forward multiple first round picks. They are sitting ready right now to continue this run as this dynastic powerhouse. If they don't screw it up I totally agree. It makes no sense for Steph to play games in March. Well let me say this to you with the blasphemous words that I just heard. Come out of your mouth. I believe that anytime. Klay Thompson and Steph Curry on the basketball court together and healthy. They are instant title contenders. That means the next year and I don't mean two years from now that means next year you know why. Because this success isn't predicated on their lettuces. It's predicated on their marksmanship. And these are two of the elite marksmen. This game has ever seen. I'm going to remind the world. Listen Reggie Miller is a hall of Famer Ray. Allen is the hall of fame. I go back to the days at Dell Dell Curry Ricky Pierce from downtown Freddie Brown and Seattle in the late seventies and early eighties. And I'm telling you even with Larry. Bird don't do it steph curry and Klay Thompson. Greatest shooters I've ever seen in my life and I'm talking about the great without question. The greatest back court debate is good to great has back why they're going to have thousands and I'm saying that you next year next year not two years from now next year. Let them stay on the basketball court healthy. Because you've got to remember back to when you talk about just rim shots you talk about free. Throws to talk about those. They don't miss they. Don't Miss Tell you right now. They'll be talking about the shooting that no that the shooting is why think their horizons are longer than people suspect. But the reason I don't think they'll be title contenders right away next year. Coming off of injuries. Is that your underrating. The importance of their athletic ability. Stephen you and I when we were much younger saw Trent Tucker and then also later Alan Houston with the Knicks. You think Alan Houston shot better than Trent Tucker. No they both shot really well but Alan Houston was more athletic bigger and could do more things. He wasn't like a slasher. Kinda guy or or a point guard type guy but four to. He could do things that other touts couldn't that's why he was a star. Not just the shooting steps like Klay Thompson Steph Curry. It's not just that he can shoot from you know from the parking lot. The Guy can get to places on the floor because of his hands and quickness and small spaces that others can't you're you're sleeping on the combination of their marksmanship with unusual athletic ability for players with that level of marksmanship. Okay all right. Excuse everybody said all right. Thank you guys. Lot all-stars returning when Steph and clay are back. Potentially this season or next season it makes not the season according to Steven a. After the NBA. Tweeted out the changes to this year's All Star Game Victory Sounder. Ice Cube responded with a tweet thing. Oh really where should I send? My invoice isn't playing games determined by targets. Four instead of a clock since two thousand seventeen should ice cube and the big three get credit for the new all-star rules even just they should they absolutely should not that it didn't exist before the point is it almost seems like the NBA sore. That it was working at it had its appeal and as a result bit from it to some degree with is no crime it crime and it is that ice cube has been starving for attention for the big three and the reality is he deserves it. Because you've got guys who a former players that obviously can't run up and down the court ninety four feet from one eighty two nights a year. But you have caught three on three basketball you would think that the NBA the Angie Leagues and others would provide some assistance to help uplift in the sport. Because you've got guys on the come up that hoping to get an NBA and the other leagues the G. League. And what have you and in college basketball in this case you've got guys that have veered away from the game in other words. They're not playing any law but they still got a little something where they can entertain you in half court basketball support it. You don't speak about. Give Him some love. I think ice cube and the Big Three as a League deserves that not just from the MBA. But from all of us and they'll certainly get that love from me. I saw the story yesterday. I wanted to talk about it. I'm glad we're talking about it today. Ice Cube saw a need in the marketplace. Like a that wasn't being met he saw market where the need wasn't being met and he supplied it. He supplied it. Sort of a seniors tour meets kind of innovative league. That's giving the people something that they want and some some people they didn't even know they wanted but they actually do. He's done a great job with it and when he asks for some credit basically that's what he says. Hey can I get some credit for this? He's right but he's having the effect that he wants in the sense that the innovation of the big three has found its way to the NBA and turned an all star game which was an exhibition. That should have been the best in sports of all the exhibition games but really want any better than the others. Eventually back into the best exhibition in sports like it was great this year and it promises to be great going forward and so the innovations already working look the three point shot and other innovations. Aba found their way to the NBA. Took a long time Credit Chris. Paul Adam Silver for not dragging their feet and taking a long time with this one and give ice cube. His credit to the the the basketball is better for the big three about it that I wanted to say also about ice cube is this and I want the NBA to understand something. Ice Q supports the NBA snoop dogg supports the NBA. Ll Cool J. Who obviously helps ice cube to some degree? He's at a lot of those big three games. He was that one with me in Philadelphia last year. So they support this game. There's a whole bunch of brothers out there particularly in the music industry whether it be hip hop rb whatever that is incredibly incredibly supportive of the NBA brand and things that they try to do to breed off of it is a plus for the NBA. Not a mind when you see cats out the plan three on three basketball. It obviously encourages you to stay in shape. It obviously encourage you to continue playing ball and it reminds people that ball is twenty four seven dislike. Football is and so when you have that adore twenty four seven three hundred sixty five days a year when you remind people that that's what be ball is all about and you don't need to helmet and pads and a football field in order to pull it off and stuff like that. These are things that help. Elevate the profile of the game of basketball so be receptive to helping ice cube and the big three grow it's good for the NBA. It's good for basketball. It's good for basketball. Love everywhere you got that Max. Yeah I know I a I agree like this is three on three. I mean come on. That's he saw as I said it wasn't being met their stars who could still play. The fans still wanted to see maybe not an NBA level anymore. He gave it to them. He's just asking for some shine and the NBA. Give it to them. We go says go. Sounds good to me right. All right guys. We got some results in. Okay Cloth Robin all right and so right. You needed us to our show. We did it so we asked. The fans does drew brees and not retiring does that make the saints. Nfc Contenders Sixteen. Four percent said no breeze does not is not about content about whether or not they should be the favorite okay we all noted contenders. But should you be the favorites with Sam France? Seattle Green Bay in the NFC hell to the no. No you can't lose in a wildcard game kirk cousins favorites before a game is played now absolutely not and I love me. Some what happens in the draft and free agency. They have a lot of free agents. Okay offensive side of the ball. Let's see what happens. They'll see what happens to the draft Stephen. Ai Suspect that when the dust settles I'll like the packers this upcoming season possibly because they're almost there they just need a few things and I think they probably can address that in this off season but as of this moment yup I agree drew. Brees going back to the saints given that Tastes Hills backing them up. They should be the favorites. I've just happy to have juries back. Thank you for watching. Sports Center is up next.

Stephen basketball NBA Katie Steph Curry Klay Thompso Max steph curry James Harden Jay Williams Kyrie MVP Russell Westbrook Stephen Zion Zion Chris Paul Kyrie Irving Cairo Kyri Kendrick Perkins President Steven Mike Bloomberg
Why is Kyrie Irving Proposing Players Start a New League? | Garden Report

The Garden Report | Boston Celtics Post Game Show from TD Garden

07:37 min | Last month

Why is Kyrie Irving Proposing Players Start a New League? | Garden Report

"Several MBA players have expressed their concerns about heading down in entering the Orlando Bubble Kyrie Irving leading the charge I'm Sarah. Goodwill here with Mike petrolia NGO swayed kyrie irving has been very vocal about how he's not on board with all the restrictions of your Landau bubble, especially during the time in the state that our nation is in in terms of fighting all of these social injustice in racial injustice issues right now. He thinks that you know bringing the NBA. That is predominantly Black Cowan into one area will take away from the movement. He's also now talked about NBA players creating their own league in place of the restart guys why Kyri. The leader of this isn't really for the social. Aspect of it all well. I think this is a dangerous game. Guys trying to get inside Kyrie irvings mine when it comes to social justice. And the pandemic, and what should be priority number one but I'll take a stab at it here and. And I think what Kyrie Irving is trying to say is well intentioned that you know our focus as especially the African American community should be on the welfare of our own and I. Get that and I understand that the problem is when he says we should go start our own league. Why? Why would you want to do that? I have not heard a legitimate or a sufficient explanation from him as to why that would be better than working with an already established significant community in the NBA where you are already our to speak. I don't understand that. Yeah it makes very little sense doesn't I mean I got it in the sense of safety precautions like Bass. The way I look at that's the way I translated his quote when he says something that looks fishy. Jeff Obstacle nineteen another. Houston turned the biggest are the reason why initially a lot players or some players were hesitant of idea. I Jeff. Goodman shared with me. Bad Return that phone call. It was hosted no talk about Kobe nineteen The hint tell him that career was talking about the movement, black lives matter, and maybe a little bit of safety precautions, but the that I was alluding to is weak, but now it seems about the movement will then Bachelor I'm confused. I read 'cause. Shake track you know more progressive. League in the United Reason. NBA Use your platform. Use It. We're going to see people who don't even normally wash the. To and because they want to see how this whole thing plays out live, basketball's back. You're going to use that platform. You're going to be around players. You can start a forum you can do. Things have between games. You can do things a between practices. Maybe get players together. Start a healthy conversation. Put that out or social media. There's so many ways you can go about. A be ahead of the movement and still play basketball and compete, or you're not going to be. case support your teammates. Again Curry Irving is so hard to try to dissect his clothes I mean we spent the last two years door? Then right tracks in so many quotes from curry that we try to understand me from I just know crystal clear answer Karekin our. He comes forward and says he's not going to do that right so i. just that's just where we are right now. Yeah the players might not be able to go out there in protest while they're down in. ORLANDO, but like you said they can wear shirts, warm up. They have full autonomy over the shoes. They wear the posts that they still can. Put out there on social on their social media accounts. If anything goes around more people that like you said just way they can have conversations about in continue on with this black lives matter movement down in Orlando, but to play devil's advocate. There is not just career ring. WHO'S CONCERNED ABOUT GOING DOWN TO ORLANDO? Are This are? These phone calls filled with players who don't really like the idea at all. Do they have a point? Why I think certainly, they have a point in. They're discussing it amongst each other. I would warn NBA players not to go down the path that major league baseball players are going down and obviously you're talking about two different. Totally different scenarios whereas MLB was concerned about how the players would get paid. How that's salary structure would carry out over twenty, two, thousand and twenty, one and twenty twenty two. This is about the social. Awareness that these players can bring to the fore, and that's very legitimate. However you you. I think run the risk. Of overplaying your hand and having the message lost because you're not one unified voice, and that's what. One criticism I would give of NBA players. Me Sometimes. The player Players Union in the NBA is very very very talk, and you have ten to fifteen voices, speaking for six hundred players, and I think sometimes that comes across as the superstars are in charge and little guy doesn't count as much. Yeah, that's a good point. I mean every Bradley's one of those guys who speaking out. Obviously he plays with Lebron, James, and the Lakers and they have a really good chance of winning a title, so I think that's significant. Someone like that to speak out. sold has been sorry for the Lakers all year long and. He's obviously not the quote. Unquote superstar of Curry's level, but obviously the concerns and I. I think they are are ways to go about it. These guidelines I think are ridiculous I think this has to be somewhere in the middle that these two sides can be but I just don't see. Black Lives Matter Movement, and all that I don't think that's another reason to to replace to be afraid to to. Step away from that movement to play basketball I can do both at that. You could do it on accidental. You know level, but you can even make it bigger than it is you know. I just think this is a great opportunity for the ability to do that. And I would hate them to miss out on. All of our coverage, leading up to the restart head to our website at CNS media dot com check out our Youtube Channel forget to subscribe at Celtics all access. There is no shortage of action going on at our exclusive partner Bet, online sports are slowly making its way back with the UFC NASCAR and soccer leading the way that online has all the best odds in lines for the upcoming matches this weekend. Need more that online has simulated NFL NBA, and UFC happening every day live for you to check out looking for something else other than sports, but online has hundreds of live Casino Games Poker tournaments and all best props in the business visit bet online dot ag, or use your mobile device enjoy now to receive your new welcome bonus and start playing today, but online your online sportsbook experts.

NBA kyrie irving basketball ORLANDO Curry Black Cowan Matter Movement player Players Union Mike petrolia NGO Jeff Obstacle Lakers Houston Youtube UFC MLB Kobe Goodman baseball
The Ocho: Cowboys sign OL Cam Erving

Blogging the Boys

28:38 min | 3 months ago

The Ocho: Cowboys sign OL Cam Erving

"American what a world welcome to another episode of the Ocho presented you in partnership as nations blog in the boys dot COM Joe Showa Nomi of course from bTV INFORMATICA as humble host on of the OCHO. It is Thursday. The Third Day may seventh two thousand twenty. We hope is well wherever you are. We hope you're happy. Safe healthy practicing social distancing and excited for the two thousand twenty. Nfl scheduled to be released. Tonight look forward to it. Look here's our plans for when the schedule is released six thirty. Pm Central Time Dallas Cowboys Dot COM is going to be releasing the two thousand and Twenty Dallas cowboys schedule. We will of course have it available for you at blog. Boys Dot Com. We'll have it available on social media as well you can follow us on twitter at blogging. The boys on instagram blogging dot. The boys you can also like us on facebook. I am on twitter and instagram at arduous. Show on both we'll have a recap podcast available as soon as we can get it up here on the podcast feed and make sure to subscribe wherever you get your podcast apple devices. Spotify tune in radio stitcher. We are all over the place. So we'll we'll be here. We'll be talking about the cowboys scheduled. There are different rumors going around right now. We talked about it earlier this week with friend of the show. Bobby Belt Bobby. And I gave our own predictions. Bobby's prediction for the season. Opener was at Baltimore. My prediction was on the road as well but on the other side of the country against the Los Angeles Rams. I HAVE THE COWBOYS. And so does bobby hosting the New York giants in week two in their home opener. That kind of feels solid. I mean just because it's the cowboys the giants and that's kind of how things tend to roll but but as mentioned we'll we'll have some reactions and some thoughts up for you as soon as they are available so make sure to subscribe so you don't miss a thing in terms of things we have this week on the podcast. We have a lot available for you. We have interviews with four the newest Dallas cowboys again. Monday's episode of girls talk and Boys Bendon Uchi Tuesday not Wednesday Tuesday's episode of talk in the draft featured both Neville Gallimore and Reggie Robinson the second and then yesterday here on the show we had Rico Dowdell undrafted free agent signee for the cowboys by the way the cowboys officially announce their undrafted free agent class on Wednesday. So all of those ts are crossed. I's are dotted and the cowboys stayed active actually on Wednesday the cowboys You know it was during a conference call with season ticket. Holders that Steven Jones announced that the cowboys signed Cam. Irving the offensive lineman most recently of the Kansas City chiefs. Sag giving them some depth. The cowboys now have a lot of offensive lineman a lot of people might infect here. Here are the notable Cowboys Offensive Lineman. No disrespect anybody intended but these are the guys who are going to be battling it out for roster spots. Obviously and we're we're pencilling and Joe Looney. The team starting center for now. You're starters include Tyron Smith Connor Williams. Joe Looney Zack. Martin and Lyle Collins and then strong important reserve players Connor McGovern Tyler Beyond Ish Adam Redmond Brandon Knight. Mitch I think is on the bubble terrence steals and undrafted free agent. A lot of people like Marcus Henry. Wittmann Wyatt Miller round out the group of course Cam Irving now part of the rotation Cam Irving played a majority of his time in two thousand nineteen at left tackle for the world champion. Kansas City chiefs obviously played for the Cleveland Browns as well You might remember the scuffle that he had with David Irving in Cleveland. The last time the cowboys played the browns. That's another rumor by the way cowboys could play the browns and weak one. They did play the browns in week. One if I recall in two thousand and eight that was on the road And that was. That was a fun game but I don't know we'll see we'll have all of our questions in all the mysteries answered in just a few hours. But the Cam Irving thing you know. I don't know I mean I think these are the offensive. Lineman I think without question part of the college group you got your five starters right and Kinda McGovern that six tyler beyond that seven and then I'm open to having a conversation so that at seven. I think I would take Brandon Knight. That's eight in fact Brandon. Two teams swing tackle in two thousand twenty. I think I think everything's okay. That's a like I said and remember. There are two more roster spots on every. Nfl team. They've been bumped up from fifty three to fifty five and remember that active game day. Rosters have gone from forty six to forty eight and one of those two spots. Must be an offensive linemen. We talked a lot about that when the cowboys traded up to draft Tyler and so I don't know I I don't know that I mean I don't want to say that I don't came every making the team but I just you know there's a lot there and ultimately that's what you want you want competition right and so. I think I think the cowboys have a lot of it again. I really liked terrence steel. Too I mean. So there's there's GonNa be some some training camp you know battles and whatnot but an order to properly understand. Who CAME IRVING? Was You know? I thought well we know because we all watch football we all talk about the NFL cover the NFL etc. But let's get somebody who knows the chiefs better than anybody else. And when I think of that person I think of the one and only Pete Sweeney who is the me for espionage Kansas City chiefs website Arrowhead pride dot com. Pete is the manager editor in chief just head Honcho over at Arrowhead pride and he does a fantastic work with all the gang. Ap and he knows the chiefs again better than anybody. And so pete was kind enough. Not only. Give me a little blurb in my my article about this news but To hop on the podcast and to kind of give us a CAM irving one. Oh one talk about who he is. What the cowboys are getting what his strengths are. What his call them? Non Strengths are just kind of give you understanding of the newest member of the Dallas Cowboys. So let's let's go ahead and get to it from Arrowhead Pride Dot Com Pete. Sweeney next right here on pleased to be joined by a very special guest known all over the world known specifically on Miami Beach in Miami beach around Miami Beach. Wherever Miami Beach said allowed the One and only you know him. You love him. Estimations DOT com manager editor in chief and great friend of ours. That blogging boys. The one and only Pete Sweeney beater goes. What an intro. Thank you for that party in the city when the heat is on and you know the rest that's right you know it's so interesting. I I know that you probably had similar conversations with people about like. How's your job like other people you work with? It's like I've met like two of them and actually I've met three ACAS. I forgot burned. So that's my bad But you're one of the three so I mean big time honor for you. I think yeah big time honor to to know you and to have been able to hang out with you in Miami. That was my first real trip to Miami in about a decade. We had a good time down there. One of US left with a team that they covered winning the Super Bowl. So that was a cherry on top. Good for me not so great for you but again it was good to hang out with. You know it was so awesome though. Why is great if you are an avid blog on the boys reader? I know if you're listening you are. I remember during that week. I wrote something about Andy Reid talking about Mike McCarthy and kind of you know revitalizing his career kind of a second stop and it was Pete that sent me that audio because Pete was in that press conference. I was busy working on radio row. He was just going here. Going there. so can shopped the be. Yeah I had my ears to the ground for you Mike McCarthy. We'll see how he does in Dallas. I think it's going to be better than the status quo that was Jason Garrett for as long as I can remember so. I'm glad you guys got something to different. Were different to work with them. So we're we've brought you here today to get your perspective on one of the newest members of the cowboys before we get there. Your Bird's eye view of the cowboys. I mean you are sitting from the perspective of the world champions again you cover the Kansas City chiefs better than anybody in the Biz and So you you keep your your eyes and your ears of course fixated on blocking the West Dot COM but across the NFL general. So what do you make of Mike? Mccarthy's moves as the new cowboys head coach and following in. What many people hope is the archetype that Andy Reid has created have success somewhere if fizzle is allow and then go have even more success somewhere else I think. Sometimes these coaches need to have that happen in their career for reset and we saw very recently in Kansas City with Steve Spagnolo who took a year off for the first time. I believe it was since one thousand nine hundred eighty and was able to sit back. Watch take notes. He said he watched a lot of film was able to Rethink His coaching style. And his scheme and he really came back and took a chiefs defense. That was really poor in two thousand eighteen. They did ED pieces and Frank Clark entire and Matthew but really overturned it to one of the better defenses in the league going. It's the play offs and it ended up being with the help of Patrick. Mahomes on the other side championship caliber. So I liked the head coach higher. I think it can work in Dallas would alarms me a little bit more from the outside looking in is what I call a first day headline and Andy Dalton being signed without Dak getting his money is a. I take headline of the night. You don't want to see if you're a fan of the cowboys. I'm sure I'm sure you feel our pain in fact actually peek behind the Glass. Pete behind the glass. Perhaps the moment Andy Dalton. That news was announced. Pete just disliked me and I felt my pain so It's been it's been a long week. Beat we've carried a lot of water up a Lotta Hills To to combat those Those people that seem to believe the cowboys have leverage. Now so Watch out but the shape. Patterson TALK ABOUT LEVERAGE MAY NOT. I mean in quarterback contract situations and eerie likes to go into training camp with four arms. So that's where Patterson comes in. There's a spicy quarterback three battle story with Tom O. In Patterson now both coming from that Ole Miss Program. Who's GonNa get it? That's that's as controversial as the quarterbacks skit in Kansas City and I'm thankful for that but I look I wouldn't you the best with the Red Rifle. I think. The Sky's the limit you never know. Maybe he winds up being. Qb One by the end of all. I just you know friends or compadres in the owner. Go DOWN THIS ROAD I. Even I went on Pete's podcasts. The other day the editor show on pride DOT COM subscribe to the head pride. Podcast feed lots of great work there from all the people and to talk some Taco Charleston. Talk about award-winning defenses. And so we actually quipped. Then how every. Nfl team kind of has a team that they are sort of A. How did you put a kissing cousins with you? Know players that seemingly are caught up in both streams and that is now the case again. Peter The Dallas Cowboys have an award winning Super Bowl champion offensive? Tackle Cam Irving and you wrote for us at blogging. The boys dot com a little blurb as we like to refer to them regarding camera moving and it was not very kind in fact the first sentence during his time in Kansas City urban proved to be at his best which was bordered by two hyphens. A borderline sixth of lime and so Pete I'll put it to you. Get cowboys fans height about the newest tackling down. Some nerdy writing talk though some em dashes in there and call it a sentence. I think that Cam Irving is exactly what I said. I mean he is your sixth offensive Lineman. If one of your guys goes down be at a guard or tackle Cam Irving can fill in for a game or two or three and that was fine during those times that that happened again the city where he was plug and play this is not a starter and that is where I think he got into a little bit of trouble where I mean he did start the AFC title game in in Twenty Eighteen. So he has that experience but just last year. He replaced Eric Fisher as left tackle for eight games and Midway through he stepping on Patrick MOMS. He became a little bit of a joke in Kansas City because he was such a clear week. Part of the Oh well and then when Fisher was able to get back in healthy he never saw the field again. I like camera irving. He was guy I I'll say that again he is that. I think cutty that you have in your toolbox where you could plug the leak until you can get to the hardware store. That's essentially what. He is any good at that role. He became a little bit of A. I would say one liner joke by the end because I in the Kansas City chiefs super bowl run whenever they would pan to the sidelines. Irving was just going absolutely crazy. Like real good cheerleader. Along the playoff run so the cowboys can make a push. You can guarantee that there's going to be a guy in the sideline ready to enthusiastically high five and cheer. And and that'll be cam irving for you. A magical. I would in ancient tree. Line BRANCHES CLIMB SPOOKY K. Your island haunted by ghosts. Where all the answers all? Why welcome to the island of explain where we answer kids? Big questions about what's going on right now scores and do things that we have to be adult. Discretion is advised but seriously all welcome. Even you grown up. Kids Cup was done on spy or wherever you listen to today. Explained ha ha ha ha ma. Hey everyone this is editor at large recode and I'm Scott Galloway professor of nyu Stern School of business. We host the twice-weekly pivot podcast. Where you break down all the news in Tech Media and business and anything else that we fancy we want to talk about. The news is moving faster than ever. And we're here to bring some analysis context sanity and occasional levity to a lot of sanity around here anyways to the cove in one thousand nine hundred economy Keira Art. Listen Scott Listen. We don't WanNA bring levity to cope. Nineteen we think it's a very serious crispy WANNA give people insight and other ways to cope with cove in nineteen. We've had lots of ways to talk about it whether it's through relationships and we talk about how tech is being used to track data and health and location the privacy risks of living out our lives platforms like zoom which can be a little dangerous how streaming platforms like Netflix will excel or fail without sports broadcasting and how this moment is changing the relation between labor force and major companies like Amazon. We cover the entire landscape of we also bring on great guests ranging from Robert Rice to astaire. Parral got us to the economy and how covered is changing our relationships. How is our relationship changing? Scott Bo I think you know it's getting stronger. I think you're finally in touch with your emotions. Let's be honest. I am the future ex Mrs Swisher. Yeah Anyway got puts it over. Nineteen has been the great accelerator for companies the economy and public policy. Stay on top of all by listening to pivot with Cara Swisher Scott Gallery. Every Tuesday and Friday subscribe on Apple podcasts. Or wherever you listen to podcasts. Yeah when I was picking a cover image for him looking through the libraries that we use There was a photo of an extreme height. Man Came Irving Joy. The only way I would describe him in your blurb you wrote that he does not like playing center. Can you expand on this? Is there a backstory there? Yeah This dates back even to his chiefs or PRE chief stays with the Cleveland browns. Where you can look it up yourself. He was asked to play center and he just straight up said in a press conference he doesn't like to be in charge of the entire of it. And so I I that that is what that was referring to. Maybe that's changed over the years. I think right now any position that he could play to get an lineup. Hell do but I find in my experience with him that he can play guard but he prefers to be the tackle position and again. It's just I would say a slightly below average tackle and so probably will fill a role for the cowboys. It just won't be as a starter. Interestingly enough so there are some rumors I actually haven't seen any real reports. This is just like some people that have tweeted at me that the cowboys are going to play the browns in week one We'll see this episode pitas dropping on Thursday and so the schedule will drop a few hours after this but The last time the cowboys play the Browns was twenty six. Because the whole is it. Inter Inter conference at that point. INTRO conference. So that's intro. Comp look learn the Wiseman Pete But the last time the guy was played. The browns came was on that team. David Irving was on the cowboys who Dallas also got from Kansas City and they had a big skirmish. I don't know if you ever saw that. And there was this big like Irving on urban crime Obviously the fortuitous connection there with the chiefs wasn't fully completed but you know that That make you feel nostalgic part of me wonders if maybe the cowboys thought they were getting the older today. As opposed to this serving but Yeah no no no. No Real nostalgie here wasn't wasn't on that on that pulse of that that skirmish but irving we'll get into some training camp. I think words were battles. That can sometimes leads to set training camp fisticuffs and maybe get some of that in Dallas. So this isn't the first time the cowboys have gotten a potential swing tackle named Cam off of an AFC team. That was recently in the Super Bowl. They got Camp Fleming after the Patriots lost to the Eagles but There were I saw a friend of our show. John Owning tweeted that Bradley and neither couch fifth round. Pick who a lot of people believe is one of the values throughout the entire drafts. That Cam Irving is like the guy that Bradley and is GonNa put up his training camp highlights against you know like we're going to be out there and and Bradley and is going to be working. Iran Bradley Looks Great. And it's it's really going to be more came irving than anything. Can you see that absolutely and that is someone where if you need a boost of confidence at the end of training camp? Say Bring up my camera and you'll be good to go. Frank Clark. Had his way with every offensive Lineman at training camp last year and that was another example. And you know I think you do see that in Dallas as well and again I. I'm joking here. I don't WanNa go crazy crazy in an irving. I just think he is what he is. Which is a decent role player? And you need those to fill a fifty three or what? I think it's like fifty five roster limit this year saying that you need those type players there and again if you need for a few games he's there he can play a lot of positions that is hard to come by in the NFL. So that's where the upside us. So we've had some extensive conversations over the last week about Taco Charlton and Cam Irving both I think regarded as subpar by the teams that we cover individually. Who Do you think if this is the the swap who won I mean the cowboys the chiefs for Taco Charles? Inner Cam Irving. It's funny because I I could see it. Now we're both fan bases and reporters would probably say that they want because they've got so sick of Taco and the chiefs fans got so sick of camp stepping on the MVP's ankle. And so I would say as someone who covers the chiefs that any thing of value for Cam the right side of it. Okay and who knows if that's what Taco is based upon some of our conversation so it's really hard to tell. I think I would say the chiefs but you just don't know I think Tacos at a point and you alluded to this on our podcast channel. Where if it doesn't work in Kansas City you pretty much and so- Dallas still is working to get there to that caliber again and not to say that they won't but I think that's where I'll say maybe the chiefs win. Because he's if he can't get motivated next to his old teammate. And frankly and playing for a team that's expected to win the Super Bowl again. I mean you might as well quit and so that's where that's where I think I I choose Taco sense. Don't super bowl fifty five. Play the game you everything's on the line Taco versus Cam and Sunday and they they decide you know the two of them. That's all I mean. This is so predictable. Just lock it in right now and TACO sheds off the sour cream and run right into the red rifle. Who won the job and Wiki? Bring the cowboys to Tampa right. Okay well hey speaking of I. I've made a joke several times in my life but the first person ever made it was Pete Tampa Bay. I've never understood. The buccaneers got lot of sex appeal. Right now at Tom Brady and everything. How have they never taken a team trip to Boca Raton and called themselves? The buccaneers. It's there that's right and they've been going all in on on Tampa Bay whereas Boca nears. It feels like would be a lot better at least in my opinion. So I'm with you I can. I can vibe with some in Boca nears. I'm hoping that that we're back. We're back together again. What how how many months now? Six to eight with all this corona virus in the rear view and we're back and covering the Super Bowl. That'd be fun wouldn't it? That would be a lot of fun. Florida's just Argentines playground. Is Really what I've decided we. That's right Oh yeah like you know because there's Florida man but Florida men it pluribus unum man from any someone. One P Q for for giving us became irving one on. What do you have coming up later this week and over the weekend by DOT COM? I think it's just a parent RJ. And I'm going to be one of these complaining reporters the NFL. Just doesn't want us to take a break so. I'll be working all day tomorrow on the NFL schedule released. And hopefully there's some kind of room to breathe in between that and the weekend and then yeah just covering this virtual off-season really weird so the chiefs will be having some availabilities. If you care to check in on the World Champs Stop BY ARROWHEAD PRIDE DOT COM. You can also get me at. Pg swing on twitter and your instagram is pg swing as well right right yes and I've been teetering in teasing and RJ with a segment called jokes at noon. So if you like some of the jokes we out there. Which probably didn't if you did we can stop by my instagram same title. Pg To call it. A segment is one of the most insane humble brags of all time it is. It's a revolution jokes at noon. Jan As as the cool kids are Pete Sweeney. Thanks so much for taking the time to join US rest easy. Want to give a big time. Thank you to Pete Sweeney for taking the time to join us on twitter and the Graham at pg swing one of my better friends in this world in this industry Remember the episodes that we put out while we were on radio row at the Super Bowl in Miami was off covering the chief says so. He didn't really get a chance to jump on all too much but he's really talented and does a lot of great work and it's always always always working so Really appreciate him lending. I some perspective on the newest member of the Dallas Cowboys in ultimately after hearing that I think I actually would argue and I know that was kind of pizza point that if you could have one of the two players if you could have Taco Charlton or camera bring on your team actually. Let's refrain that could have Taco Charleston or Cam Irving on the Dallas cowboys? Who would you prefer? I'll give you five seconds to think about it. I'm buying your time. Here's me tap dancing years. Me Stalling in there you go. You better have reached your answer. I think I would rather have cam irving some of that is just positional need. We mentioned Bradley. And I I don't know that I don't know the TACO is even a year removed What the cowboys need in two thousand and twenty so? Hopefully he find success in Kansas City. You can hear my thoughts on that again on the Arrowhead Pride podcast feed. They are just like we are available. Wherever you get your podcast. They do fantastic work representing the world champions and obviously the cowboys are going to be world champion right when when they're two thousand twenty schedules complete when when when it's all said and done when all sixteen games are in the rear view mirror and all the playoffs from the rear view mirror and the cowboys are in. Tampa Bay like the Bokan. The years going for net perfect nine two no record right. That's definitely happened right. You believe that. Now but yeah. I think the cowboys will be very good. So we'll see we'll see how it ultimately shakes out. We'll see when and where we know where you know win. The Games that are going to happen ultimately will happen. We will know the two thousand Twenty Dallas Cowboys scheduled later today on Thursday. So make sure to check out blocking the boys dot com all of our social channels for much discussion on it later today later on Thursday you will get a brand new episode of Bruce and the boys Michael Sizemore Tom. Riley and special guest Roy White so looking forward to hear what the guys have to say about all things Dallas cowboys tomorrow. Of course you'll get our reaction to the two thousand Twenty Dallas Cowboys scheduled right here on the show and then a brand new episode of Girls Talk Invoices Kelsey Charles and Meg Murry. We have just gotten some feedback about our podcast. Feed is whole and gross talk and boys and the new edition and Calcium makes. We really really are just so thankful to everybody who has taken time to comment to reach out etc and for those of you that have and we appreciate those of you that will in the future if you get a chance to. We certainly do appreciate it if you give us a rating review wherever you get your podcast. It's apple or spotify. Whatever those things help us out so much so yes do me a favor. All right That I don't really ask this favor all too often but I'm going through today. Have a great lunch. I mean I just I know I said that recently but I've just really been on this. You better have a great lunch kick lately I I just I want you to get your nutrients I want you to hit the basic food groups. I mean I wanted to be delicious. Nutritious I mean that's what I want for you just you know build that physique and while you're at it another favor and have the absolute best Thursday of all time you know why because you deserve it. We will see him. Indiana friends as always go cowboys and peace out.

cowboys Dallas cowboys Cam Irving Kansas City chiefs Kansas City Nfl irving Dallas Pete Pete Sweeney Cleveland Browns David Irving twitter Spotify Miami US facebook Boca Raton
Warriors-Rockets, Lakers, Jeanie Buss, and Kyrie Irving

The Herd with Colin Cowherd

1:53:31 hr | 1 year ago

Warriors-Rockets, Lakers, Jeanie Buss, and Kyrie Irving

"The maybe it's who you up next to this morning. Maybe it's what you had for dinner last night. Oh, how you getting to work right now. It's invisible. But AI is already making decisions for us on sleep walkers were speaking with the smartest people in the world and taking you inside the headquarters of Facebook, the NYPD and a secret lab at Google to find out what the revolution will mean for us. Listen subscribed to sleep walkers. Apple podcasts on the iheartradio app or wherever you listen to podcasts. Thanks for listening to the heard podcast. Be sure to catch us live every weekday from twelve to three eastern nine to noon Pacific on Fox Sports radio NFS one. Find your local station for the hurt at Fox Sports radio dot com or stream it live every day on the iheartradio app by searching heard. You're listening to Fox Sports radio. Oh, here we go with a loaded Thursday the topic. God tipped granted us some gold bars. This is the heard wherever you may be. However, you may be listening. We are live in Los Angeles on iheartradio, FOX radio NFS, one joy Taylor is joining me Lakers dysfunction, Katie could be gone forever. Kyrie Irving math. It is great quite a day NBA yesterday. I could break down the baseball regular season. I'm gonna pass on that today. I'm gonna pass on that today. Join locked on. Let me start with this. This is a concept that even though we've seen it materialize basketball fans struggle with this. I talk about this all the time. The concept that you can lose your best player and actually get better. Maybe it's short term not long term. But when you've got a K D, And you've got a Kobe. We've all played basketball at the Y you go into a gym. There's a great great player. He's better than everybody else. And you stand around watching him, and you don't move as much and you don't cut as much and long-term K D in the warriors are a better team more ammo to their arsenal. Short term. I'm not so sure when Kevin Durant not playing the warriors aren't better. I'm not saying that they are however different. And they're different is damn good. They move more. They cut more. They're more fluid. They're more frenetic. They stand around less dream on. Green is empowered. They're twenty nine and four when Katie doesn't. And Steph does play don't tell me Houston's got this series. And I would say Houston, actually, if you ask James harden who we would rather face. He'd rather face the warriors with K D because when K D plays and warriors never been a great stamina guy. What's the knock on him forever meltdown at the end of seasons? He looks tired when Katie leaves? Did you watch the staff? Offense running cutting harden was chasing them all fourth quarter. It's not. That harden was off in the fourth quarter. He was gassed it's not that. He was missing shots. Heli wasn't even taking them. He took three all quarter. He's averaged almost nine a quarter he's ever to eight in the fourth quarter. He took three made to the K. D warriors are more static and long-term. They're better. But Hardin and Chris Paul get your track shoes on because the Steph warriors are running all over the floor. They have to because they they lose a prolific score. They've gotta make more screens cut harder. Pass better space better get the ball up the floor quicker. And I thought it turned harden. It was a track. Meet he didn't want to be involved. He's never been sprinter. He's never been a sprinter. And that's why this morning. Everybody's like oh it over for Golden State. No, they're just different. We've got statistical. Alice's with Kevin Durant. They're the best team in basketball without Kevin Durant. They won seventy three games a title and came within a kyri Irving jump shot of winning a second second title. So with or without K D. They've been great. They've been dominant Seventy-three wins without him. Steph wins without him if not for kyri jumper. They win twice and get Seventy-three zone. And then they add him, and they're really great. But it's two different teams dream on his energize when katie's off the floor. Feels like it's Steph and Draymond team. You can feel the energy. He talks more. He's feistier. And this is a concept basketball fan struggle with in the other reason Golden State's Adine Issey and Houston just really good because Golden State loses the best basketball player in the world. And they've got to staff and a three clay and a four Draymond in a five Iggy. And a six looney championship teams have layers of excellence just like championship companies have layers of excellence, it's not just Alabama's defense. It's not just Tom Brady. And the reason Houston is just good and not a dynasty is Katie leaves? Harden struggles. And they're not the same team if hardened not great, and they may win this series. But harden, you'll have to be great. If harden isn't great Houston's. Visit good good good team. When hardens on when harden scoring they can be amazing. But last night is why Houston just a good team. And the warriors are a dynasty people. Forget how good how good Michael Jordan's bulls were Scottie Pippen was a top fifty player. Dennis Rodman was the best rebounder ever. Coach was the best European Steve Kerr at the time was the best shooter in the league. Jim Paxson was and four behind Ron Harper was a twenty five point a game player who went to be a reserve. They have the best coach Golden State's got layer. After layer after layer they were a better team. And I'm not saying long-term, but they're a different team. And last night a better team than the second best team in the league without? Out K D Steve Kerr afterwards. Liverpool yesterday came out with just one of the great wins in soccer history. And after the match their manager your Klopp said our boys are giants. That's what he said. And I know how he feels. So I apologize to my mom who is probably watching. But our guys are giants was unbelievable victory tonight. It really was. And that's why they're a dynasty and Houston's just really good Houston. All katie's out. We've got a switch. Couldn't do it. Golden State lost the top guy and for like seven minutes. You're like I like this new style. It's actually kind of more fluid and fun. That's the difference between the Utah Jazz and the bulls and the good Sonics and blazers teams and the bulls and the Showtime Lakers and those really good Nick teams and those pretty good Indiana, pacer teams layers second gear third gear fourth gear bench coach that was impressive last night. Let me shift to this. Yeah. Yeah. I was wrong on that Boston Celtic thing. Yeah. Milwaukee's way. Better bench is better. Stronger longer taller more passionate. Kyrie Irving thing. Never worked two years didn't work it didn't fit with coach. I don't really fit with a roster. And here's another thing. He doesn't really fit with the city. I always thought that mattered Michael Jordan felt Chicago city a big shoulders. Michael was big Oprah. Was there Cisco Niebuhr industry leaders? There's no better fit in history basketball than magic in LA glamour player. Glamour city kyri doesn't even feel like Boston. Larry Bird did tough gritty clutch to lunch pail city, by the way. Kevin Garnett to me felt like Boston trash talker frugal tough don't get in his face. Intimidating Paul Pierce overachiever gritty played defense. Julian Edelman embodies Tom Brady has a supermodel wife. He's a grinder watching tape. Kyri? Just doesn't feel like Boston. We already know. He doesn't fit with this coach. We all right. No he doesn't fit with his roster. I always thought it. I always thought it felt like Detroit's good teams in the NBA are tough because Detroit's tough and the seventy Steelers the steel town USA now, we're tough. They may have had a glamorous quarterback. They won with defense. Dallas teams always little flashy with Aikman Tony Romo and Dak. I always feel there's a perfect harmony with the all time great teams. They almost feel like their city. Curry doesn't feel like Boston. He's not into practice. He's not a grinder. He's not into the communities in ice. Oh guy. I don't know anybody anything. He's just an unbelievable basketball brilliant. Solo act. He's very much Capello. I don't feel the harmony staff feels like Silicon Valley Dunkin felt like the system he felt like pop he felt like family even after the loss last night. Kyri just feels like he's just his own guy doing his own thing. And it just doesn't fit. In general, what kind of what kind of things are you looking for in your life? And what kind of things kind of situations would be a positive action that you wanna be when you I'm gonna be honest with you. I'm just trying to make it back to Boston. I, you know, safely. Get see my family decompress. You know, do what human beings do? Kyri also has something I would call the number one pick syndrome. John wall's got it. Kyrie's got it. Blake griffin. Had it Iverson had it d- rose one cheer the number one pick. You see yourself as a one and the truth is Blake Griffin's, not a one. He's a to John walls a to Kyrie's at to Derrick rose. Rosa two Iverson is a one if he's willing to play well with others. But when you're picked number one in the world. To the world's best basketball league. Most number one picks are not magic in. Lebron? They've got all sorts of flaws they'll develop emotionally and physically into a better player. But there's been a lot of number one picks who were really over skilled twos. Wall. Kyrie rose Blake Iverson, and they all had the same dilemma, and it wasn't a lack of talent that didn't play well with others. The number one pick syndrome they see themselves elevated above everyone coming into league. Forget once they're there. They see themselves from day one. I'm number one pick. Therefore, I have to be a number one guy. Kyrie's not hit another personality for it. You could argue it, and they have the size for it historically, Steph curry very unique scoring small point guard that wins title. I just don't feel like kyri fits here. I thought he would I thought he was kind of the icing on the cake the great closer. They had the coach they had the cast. They had the closer. It just doesn't work it. Okay. By the way, not the end of the world. He's got options. It'd be a lot of bidders. Not everybody works everywhere. Drew Brees didn't work with the San Diego. Chargers. You work. Boy, drew breeze. Feels like New Orleans as okay, not everybody works everywhere. The first place you'd goes not always the best place you go first marriage, not over the best marriage. But I thought even after the game sitting at the end of the bench sort of indifferent. I was wrong. It just doesn't work. Good news is he's got a bunch options. Coming up next. Lebron doesn't what I've heard from. What can only be called a circus with the Los Angeles Lakers. That's coming up. Be sure to catch live editions of the heard weekdays at noon eastern, nine AM Pacific on Fox Sports radio f s one and the iheartradio app. Rossi is are the everyday flats for life on the go there. Silence. Comfortable and go with everything from yoga pants to dresses and skirts. They've quickly become a most loved gotta have them brand. Thanks to their wide range of colors and patterns with new ones launching constantly, and there's zero break in period since Rossi's are crafted using three D knitting techniques and hand assembly there seamless design means right out of the box comfort. Best of all they're made from recycled plastic water bottles. That's right over twenty five million water bottles have been diverted from landfills to make these gorgeous and sustainable shoes. Another major bonus. They're fully machine washable. 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I do believe LeBron would demand a trade at different times in his career. But he won't now. He's in L A, his wife his kids. They liked the community. He's got the homes. He's got the business. He's got his family. I think there was a point in LeBron's life. He would have just said get me out of here. Lebron got his rings. He's got his legacy. He's got his titles. He's got his money. He's got his brand. I think LeBron's really frustrated right now. But I I've also been told that he enriched Paul are just standing back. They're not imposing their will. And there's always a sense that LeBron's running everything they're not imposing their will. They're sitting back and watching it happen. And what they're probably thinking is today. We should have imposed are will they have not the Lakers are starting to feel like an this is weird because they've. Has had money. They're starting to feel like a power Powerball winner. You ever seen those Powerball winners where they don't even know how to spend the money and all of a sudden they buy like six horses a hovercraft nine jet skis and a tiger on the back yard and four winnebago's. The Lakers literally they land LeBron with their lump sum payment, the greatest free agent ever. And then they're like, all right. Let's get Rondeau. He can't shoot. I know how about land Stevenson keys weird. Yeah. I know how about javale McGee. He's an odd bird. Well, what about Michael Beasley? He's trouble doesn't last anywhere. I know when we got all this money. Let's have the Rams family run everything. Let's have the people that really matter LeBron and the coach that really fits him Tyler. Let's alienate them. They don't know what to do. They got that lump sum LeBron payment, and they've just made bad purchases ever since players that don't fit LeBron guys that can't shoot Kurt Rambis struggled as a coach. Now, the families, and I know the Rams family, I like them. But you cannot one of the things about sport is nothing in sports is as corrosive as bad ownership. You can fire a coach you can fire GM you can trade a player. But the reason the Detroit Lions don't have a Super Bowl. And the reason the Cleveland Browns don't have a Super Bowl, and the reason Abair should have more is they've historically had bad ownership the raiders in the last ten years. Not great ownership. You can't overcome. It would draft picks. You can't it all starts at the top. And right now, let's be honest about this. I've been saying this for five months and I get pushback limit in Los Angeles. This is worse than you think. It's just now all coming out. Like, it is worse. Then you think, you know, when a president leaves the White House than somebody writes a book, and they're like, oh, my I know it was a little crazy whole holy hell, it was really bad. They're gonna write books about this White House. It's Comey worse. New think this is a mess, and I'll tell you. What's really scary? If you're LeBron. Mani Williams chose Phoenix. Let that bake Phoenix is coaching purgatory money Williams is talented. Joe's Phoenix over the Lakers. We should have all seen this. I should have seen this Paul George chose Westbrook over LeBron. They had brands. We knew what they were. Kevin durant? Lebron tight probably whispered in his ear tough to play with. I think LeBron would demand a trade at other times in his life. But now it's family now to wife now his kids now, it's their schools. We can all relate to that. Even rich people have the same. Tom Brady's worried about where his kids are going to school. The Bron James is worried about moving his kids around the country. I know you think always reg it doesn't matter. Does it matter for Brady it matter for Koby managed for LeBron? You want your kids in the same school? You don't wanna bouncing around the country. They've already sacrificed because you're a star. If you're Kobe your Brady your LeBron. I don't think he's going to demand that trait. But I think now we all thought that LeBron. The Lakers were these two massive well-run brands. I think the Lakers now hurt LeBron. And I think deep down. If he didn't have the rings, the title the network and the businesses he'd be freaking out. I think now he's just discouraged disappointed disillusioned. But I don't think he'll demand a trade. But this they'll write books about this Laker team in this White House down the road. It's this is just the stuff that's getting out joy with the news. This is the headline news terrible endings the Celtics season in a game. Five gentleman sweep ended with Kyrie Irving going six for twenty one and sitting on the bench for the final eight minutes. But the way this two thousand nine hundred Celtics season wins we should've known this all along. And it's tempting as it was pretend this regular season wasn't gonna matter. And they were going to kick it into gear for the postseason. We pretty much knew all we needed to know about this team going into the playoffs. They have the talent. But they don't have the cohesion. Which is what we questioned all year. Kyri question that this year and after the game Brad Stevens took the blame for that. All right. I don't think we have the sound of that. But he said I'll be the first to say this as far as any other coach any other year. I've been a coaches certainly been the most trying I think I did a bad job at the end of the day as a coach if your team doesn't find its best fit together that's on. You is playoff record is now twenty seven and twenty nine I don't think this is any one particular person's fault with the Celtics. Kyrie's gonna get a lot of blame. Because you know, he left LeBron and he wanted his own team. And I think Brad Stevens does deserve some of the Wayne here because part of being an NBA coaches managing egos and minutes and setting up a system that works with the players that you have it's not college where you know, this is the system, and we're going to recruit players at work within this system. And you know, we're going to develop them's worked with an assistant. The this is the pros you have Kyrie Irving, you have Gordon Hayward. You have Jason Tatum. The players league coaching. Coaching amount. And that's what to say that coaching doesn't matter. It certainly does as we are seeing around the league coaches making it as far as they are. And I'm not saying about isn't a great coach. I'm just saying that this idea that there's a system that has to and the players have to fit within that system. We know that doesn't work. We know that that's not how the NBA works. I feel like this is this is a huge disappointment for the Celtics overall not just for kyri Yano. It's I just kept thinking they figure it out. You know, just like when you got a bunch of smart talented people in any business. Like, I I've always said before I've always hired smart, not necessarily people who knew about radio and TV. Gimme smart people. They'll figure it out. I was figuring you got smart people like when member and harden, Chris Paul came together. And I said it's going to work and a lot of the analytic people's that it will work, and I said to smart dudes. They'll sit down have a glass of wine on go. Okay. I'm gonna shoot a little less. Smart. People usually figured out. Kyrie's pretty smart guy. Brad, brace Margai, Al Horford, pretty smart guy, doesn't work. It's just it's more than just egos at style of. Flay and to me it's setting up roles at the beginning of the season. Everyone should know what their role is should feel comfortable with it should feel empowered with it and want to be the best at what that is. But the other problem is it's incredible young team with a lot of unproven guys. They're trying to get contracts. It's just it's just too much of a good thing. Almost with the south. It's almost like a bunch of kyri and a bunch of big eyes. And sometimes when Kyrie does this thing the guys become C, plus guys and are not as effective like I like Jason Tatum. This year Jason Tatum. I didn't like as much last year is a rookie. I loved him in the postseason this show in the postseason. I'm like, it's just not as fluid. It doesn't feel like he connects. It seemed completely lacked balance is what it felt like so Kurt and his wife. Linda, Rambus are the two most powerful voices in the Lakers. It's appearing they faithfully prevented the Lakers from hiring. Tyler who as the next Lakers head coach the report from our own, Nick, right? It's become apparent that the bus family and rob Pelinka signed off on hiring Lou last week. But the Rambus is where. Against a higher convinced the Lakers to hold off. There were a lot of reports circulating yesterday about what exactly the stickling point was for this contract. Now working. There was reports that they wanted to have Jason Kidd as an assistant coach the ears matched up, basically. Which was what Nick said with LeBron being with the Lakers of the three years eighteen hundred which is unprecedented for a head coach, especially at championship level head coach. So it's highly was smart to stay away from this Tyler every other kind of feeling like Tyler who doesn't have any other options. He does he he's he wanted championship player went to finals and former player he he is not an desperate situation at all. You got money. He's got a ring. He's he's got a ring. He's he's Jilin. He wants to coach again. I'm sure, but if this is not the right situation. He's already been a head coach. He knows what he needs to put around him to be successful. And why would you want Chason key? Even if you were willing to bend on the Jason Kidd situation if you had a longer deal. Why are you telling the head coach who has staff should be? What do you know about putting together a staff the reason this didn't work also is because ties got money in a title? He set gimme five years and the Lakers said three and Thai tie, by the way, walked away from this as he should have. He had the leverage. He's like, I don't need a job. I got twenty million in the Bank. I got a title he walked away from them. So once you have leverage in life, and you have options, you don't have to sign contracts that you don't feel benefit you long terms. No, there's no coach that signed that contract. It's a rookie coach contra nine appropriate contact is not even reasonable something about of LA basketball with the coaching situations weird. Finally, Stephen Jones appears we putting some public pressure on deck, Amari Cooper, and Zico Elliott the take team friendly deals. He is clearly playing there's the lots of benefits to being a Dallas cowboy card, and this is what he had to say about it. Okay. We don't have the sound for this either. I'm sorry. But he said if we can talk them into not maxing out doing well, but. Not max allows us to have other good football players around them. And we all know what happens with the TV booths. And look at what these players do off the field if we can put Super Bowl rings on these guys they'll be legends around the area for many many years to come what they may give up a little bit in their contract. They should be able to invest in a cowboy making our teams better. I mean, I disagree with ever telling a player to take less money, especially coming from the owner. It's like cool. You you you take less money than will take less money. I understand the salary cap situation. But you can't ask that can take us money. And and this is this is the weakest argument to me about it because that's been on a rookie fourth-round contract. And you haven't put the talent around him to get to. Well, they're they're going to say, yes, we have they're going to say we have the best linebacking duo in football. We have the best running back. We've had the best offense of line. We got you Amari, and we actually have a lock down one. So the Cowboys aren't going to buy that pitch from the age, and they're gonna say they've been in the Super Bowl that they're going to attack issue. That's not an issue. That's a you're a fourth round pick for a reason. Only one player, but he's the quarterback. I I think that guy's all the leverage here. And I don't like I hate the idea of players taking less money. I don't think it's reasonable. I think it's completely inappropriate to even talk about layers taking less money. And I know everyone's gonna point the Tom Brady situation. That's an outlier situation. No, matter what way you spend it. It's an outlier situation. He won a Super Bowl incredibly early in his career. He knew what kind of ownership and coaching. He had around him. He has married to a woman that's worth four hundred million dollars. It's not a comparable situation. There's no reason to take less money joy with news. Well, that's the news and thanks for stopping by third lie. Chris Broussard, former New York Times odd couple of Fox Sports radio. What a what a topic God topic? God's today gave us all sorts of stuff. Chris. All right. Let's start with that let let's let's get the Laker thing out of the white here. I don't wanna go to Laker crazy on this. But ties out what's next. Well, I mean you see today. Names out there, Jason Kidd, who they wanted to be on his staff could end up being the guy. I think that will probably be LeBron choice at this point, by the way, Milwaukee got significantly better when he left. Yeah. Yeah. No, no question about that line Holland's. I love Lionel Hollins. I love his style of coaching. Which is I'm the boss. He's tough. Right. And I liked that. And he had great success in Memphis. It'd be interesting. I don't know. It'd be interesting to see how that worked with LeBron Frank Vogel. I think is a good coach not for LeBron. I don't think he'd get LeBron's respect Woodson. Mike Woodson would be you know, he'd be pretty good too. So let me throw this at you. The story that Rambus says are suggesting Jeannie trade LeBron and get a cash Ahah of gifts. What do you make of the hang in the cashier? Guess that's the problem. First of all if you trade the round wants to be in LA, he came here. One reason was basketball. Another reason was family. Another reason was business if he gets traded somewhere else. The other team's gotta be like, he's not going to be happy. Well, we've seen LeBron song. So if you trade him somewhere, the first there's four reasons you're not getting anything. I was just talking to a GM this morning about one is he going to want to be here. And if he's not you got a problem to the perception now, LeBron has guys will tell you the reality is different. The perception is that he takes over the franchise. A GM doesn't want that third expectations become championship or bus. All right. If you don't win the championship or get to the finals, you might lose your job as a GM what GM wants that fourth. Whether this is true or not allowed executives think LeBron is fallen off. He's still great still top five. But not the guy that no matter what you have around. You is carrying you to define. Okay. I'm a throw a team at you. And just gimme a minute on this. If Sixers lose tonight, you got blow some stuff up. I'm Jeanie Buss Lonzo. And LeBron you go to Philly. We get Simmons who Philadelphia doesn't fit. And I think there's Elton brand already suggested trading him. Right. You give us Butler, you give a Simmons. We'll give you LeBron and Butler will you can't trade him because he's a free agent to a sign and trade. But if you tell me Butler Simmons for LeBron Lonzo, I got my point is that. Well, look, I'm just you don't want it out there to teams that it might makes this for the Brown. One is Boston. Because Danny they're great historic France out that I don't think LeBron would frown on being a park of and Danny ages like less win all in less win. Okay. And I think LeBron could go there. And so I think that makes some sense the second one is Philadelphia now you'd have to work it out with clutch been some as a clutch client, Rich, Paul. So they all. Have to be involved are all happy with this. But I liked LeBron Philly with be unquestioned Symington, LeBron or interesting trade pieces. I was saying last summer if LeBron James if it's just about winning where can I go and stack more rings go to Philadelphia. That's if I know it was about other stuff, and there's no problem with that lifestyle stuff. That's fine. But if it's just about basketball should have went to Philly. Here's another you'll guy Embiid because it a health concerns. What about him to the Lakers for Lebed then Simmons and LeBron have a similar style game? Yeah. But look if I have LeBron and Butler and Tobias I'm competitive in these. But I I like your Simmons libra because right? Pointed Philadelphia's kind of a mess if they lose tonight, and they got all sorts of players Philadelphia's the Oiseaux Butler in that if I'm the lake okay? Because I don't want to give you my franchise. All right. Chris Bruce are joining us. So last night Charles Barkley's like it's over. Golden State can't win and might take away as we have data here. Twenty nine and four the warriors when katie's out and Steph can play now, I don't think they'll win in Houston. But I actually think they win. The warriors will win a game seven without K D And Golden State. Look, I'm glad you're saying it's because I've wondered am I the only person on the planet that understands that. Kevin Durant was a luxury not a necessity. All right. The warriors did not knee. Kevin Durant to win championships. They already one one or seventy three game one seventy Seventy-three. They beat an MSA it. Great. Okay. See team that that. Okay. K D A. Russ was great. They should've beat the warriors. They had them three one. They would be Cleveland or not, but they beat them. And then with all due respect to LeBron kyri the Cavaliers most people feel like if dramas not suspended for game five Golden State wins s here. Yes. So they could have been to turn to finish Sammy hand seventy three wins. Yes. What happened with this is what's happened? Katie goes there to Golden State and overtime staff. Clay, all these people. They see he's the best player. Like he's by far as great as Steph is katie's the best player on that team. And they see it and over time they naturally began to defer to him. And so they're still good enough to win titles. But you see it's not as smooth and free flowing as it used to be and last night soon, if he's gone staff tixx overall, Katie reminded us, I'm Kevin Durant. He reminded you I'm Steph curry and also they're more. Fluid hardens running around the floor chasing him. I wanted. I want to discuss harden. What happened? What's happened at Chris Paul who rarely looks at the basket the kyri situation. We Chris Bruce are don't go anyway, Kendrick Perkins next hour, be sure to catch live editions of the heard weekdays at noon eastern, nine AM Pacific. Do you love music? Are you a fan of movies like Star Wars Lord of the rings back to the future? Harry Potter Jurassic Park and more than the soundtrack show is made just for you. I'm David w Collins, I'm a composer voice actor in sound mixing entertainment industry, and I host this show. That's more than just a discussion about music. It's about how that music makes us fall in love with our favorite stories and characters joined the each week as I break down the best moments in our favorite movies, TV shows, even video games and talk about why the music makes each of these experiences on forgettable, and that's not all I also share stories of human drama behind the scenes. Delving into how these projects were made. And if you don't know anything about music, don't worry, I've got you covered. This show is for everybody season. Two of the soundtrack show is now playing listen and subscribe at apple podcasts or on the iheartradio app or wherever you listen to podcasts. Correct. Kris Bruce arts here for another ten minutes. All right. We talked about the Lakers situation and the warriors we both think could win this series without a K D, it'd be harder long-term without him. But short term, they're different. And I think what I saw last night. Harden? It wasn't that. He was bad. He shot three times in may two. I think the warriors without K D R a nightmare for harden because little skinny steps running around the floor and coming off cuts and hardens OAS been like a stamina concert is chasing Steph around and Claire around hard. Look gassed, not that makes them sense because there's going to be a lot more player movement, and you're going to have to work allow way. That's a great point to things about Houston. And why feel confident Golden State will still win the series one. I just liked Golden State even without D twenty nine and four without Katie last three years. Okay. Steph and clays numbers both go up but beyond that to Houston. Chris Paul what happened is it? I don't know if it's age or if the system because he's basically a two guard. He's not a great to guard. He's point guys. He even the Eric Gordon's better. This Gordon is the second guy. No, no question today. Tucker's playing a more valuable row the last three games, Chris averaging thirteen point six assists on thirty three percents shooting. This is his moment after getting hurt last year. But we so I don't know if it's that. Or if it's just remember we've seen him struggle at big moments in the playoffs. So let's see I got questions about what he's gonna do. And then harden to your point he wasn't playing badly. I'm talking about the last seven he wasn't bad. They were getting decent shot. Air. Gordon, hit a couple of big shots card made a nice pass the Capella. But here's what shocked me. And this is why I'm concerned about the rockets harden was not on the ball. Most of those lasts seven minutes. There were times. Erik gordon. Brought the ball up twice. We're both hardened ink's EP three on the floor. The ball was CB threes has at times the way they played the entire season the entire playoffs. The entire I forty four minutes or whatever it was forty two minutes was hard and handling the ball doing doing everything. And then the last seven minutes, he's not handling what's going on. Is that harden going to Gordon saying, dude, I'm gonna let you bring the ball up because I got to chase Steph like, I think hardly data or is it him running from the walk running away from the moment. I don't know. But it's something to watch for and something that makes me think of all those big moments were hard and hasn't delivered this. I've always been a Chris Paul fan last night. It was he could have taken him off the floor generally was star basketball players when Kyrie's on the floor Janas on the floor. Colli? You can see the star. Like, LeBron never disappears. I was I'm like, it's Chris Paul on the floor. He was just another player. He was just an by the way shooting thirty three percent. Okay. So we've addressed those two things let's move into this. I said Cari doesn't fit the coach he doesn't appear to fit the roster perfectly. He doesn't even feel like Boston. He's kind of a I always felt Kevin Garnett was kind of a tough guy was kind of a trash talker had an edge to him. That's boston. Boston's angry when it wakes up on a sunny day. There's a chip edleman. Feels like Tom Brady's a grinder havilcek. There's guys that work. Paul Pierce felt Belsen to me. You see I would say Pierce wouldn't boss appears play defense Pierce peers. Play defense pierced would get in your fate pierces. I wanna. Guard. Kobe Boston's tough not always talented, but tough Curt Schilling felt like Boston. Angry tough is Brady. Tough grind. He's a grinder at Boston likes work. I'll kyri and I'm like, you know, what? Kyrie's great. Boston's awesome. It just wasn't destined to work. He didn't feel like Baath. And he doesn't feel like Brad Stevens. He's okay. Let me see. I just wanted to say. And Kyrie deserves a lot of criticism. No question. But why is brass Stevens? Getting a pass brass. Steve is who was crowned as the next Gregg Popovich fact as Gregg Popovich, right? He did not. He was right. He had a bad year. Look every coach in the league knows the Xs and os. Especi, and you got little engine that could coaches in the NBA some of them. Yeah. And that's what he is. Now. The question is Kenny coach the Rolls Royces because if you wanna win championship, right? You need a coach you can coach the rolls, ROY. It's funny about that. For a lot of fans that have never seen Gregg Popovich in person. He's overpowering. He's huge the had the beard. He's like six six. He's loud. He's intimidating Popovich looks like a former NBA player when you see him walk off the bus. I've been there in Portland watching them walk off the bus. He just looks like an old NBA player. Stevens looks like an accountant there's something to be said about that. Like Brad's always like that meek. Nice went to Butler guy. There is a possibility that stars look at them and think college coach players like him, but a guys like college, right? When you have guys that are just trying to show that they belong in the league or trying to win next contract. They're going to do whatever it. Takes and that's what he had a book Butler. And that's what he has had until kyri even Isaiah Thomas was a six man chip on his shoulder. He was of that molten Mercedes Benz in kyri, and you couldn't make it work. So you have to be able to manage egos bringing together I've been told Brad doesn't like confrontation and Kyrie kinda that's one reason Kyrie was out kind of talking and bring stuff into the media. Because Brad wasn't on really address. It, dan. Tony didn't like confrontation either. No. He does it. So brassey. I'm not saying fire him. He's he's a very good coach. But I'm just saying he should not get a pass on this. Now, we regarding kyri and Emma tie back to LeBron if I'm LeBron James, I wanna stay in LA. So I'm not asking for a trait. Go all in on getting kyri back with you Lakers. That's what he should do know this. This morning, go see KAI read this like sued whenever Kyrie's ready, buddy winds down. And and I know it will look humbling of Cairo like he's going back to his leader. You if you're LeBron you gotta get the narrative out there. No, I need kyri J much as my fav-. My favorite band of all time is the eagles. They fought the entire time. They were together records they separated they had some success individually, then they got back together. And they were great. They fought the entire time. This idea that every marriage is just hand in hand. I've been married in relationships. I've been in relationship. Arguing is okay. The eagles argued to great band. Not everybody's YouTube shack and Kobe fought Phil Jackson the bottom line is LeBron kyri worked. Now, they broke up like the eagles. They did have some success, but they worked together run guys at true way and controls the ball of the other guy is an over skilled to who doesn't want the media. Lebron's great with the media. Kyri doesn't Highridge is was the ball this, by the way, don't want the responsibility run into Ghani Pippen. I covered him. Scotty, didn't like the media Scottie. Didn't like the responsibility. He was a super talented to Michael sell the way dressed Michael loved the podium. Michael loved the moment, Michael alike. The media Michael loved being a one Koby love being a one Kyrie's good enough. But he's a two was wrong. We're going down in history as Scotty Pippin. That's what and even more. So because he hit the biggest shot arguably the biggest one of the biggest outs in NBA history. If I can't get kyri, and LeBron's gotta find out relatively quickly got time. But from kyri, okay. Can you will you come? Then I'm all in on Kimba Walker if I'm Hugh, I don't think he's getting paid the I don't think he's getting unless they know something we don't know, then don't even bother with them. You have to show kyri. You're my first choice. And then if you can't get him, so Kimba your. I'm all in on you because I gotta ask you as much as I love, Kyrie Irving. His game is phenomenal best handle ever clutch player. If he had not teamed up with LeBron how much more will we think of him than Kimba Walker? We like him like Kimball Walker team every year team loses doesn't make the play out in the first Yukon Duke both right college star yet. So Kimba might be at a we've seen size that Kimball would play well in the clutch just as good point. So, but and then I'm Marcus Morris Bogue on by Donovan some shooters. I'm hoping to Rambus Rambus are listening our to next. One more heard the herd. Streams twenty four hours a day seven days a week within the iheartradio app. Search her to listen live or on demand. Whenever you like how did snoop Dogg beat is murder case. What Joe Kurt Cobain's suicide was Bob Marley? Stone cold killer. How did Sam Cooke really die in seriously? How are the dudes mcchrystal? Do you want to hear these stories and more stories about the Grateful Dead and CIA the Rolling Stones botrous lifestyle? The beep behind the deaths of two pocking biggie. I hope you do because I want to tell them. I'm Jake Brennan. The host of disgrace land, a rock and roll true crime podcast about musicians getting away with murder behaving very badly season three of his grace featuring Johnny cash. Amy wine house in more is available now as our seasons wanted to for you to binge and catch up on passed up on James Brown. John Lennon, others episodes. Come at you on a mostly by weekly schedule and clock in around thirty minutes. Warning. This is an adult storytelling podcast. It contains strong language, and it's not for kids. Listen to disgrace land on apple podcast iheartradio app. Wherever you get your podcasts. Here we go hour to Thursday. We are packed. This is the heard wherever you may be in. However, you may be listening. We're live in Los Angeles. I heart radio Fox Sports radio and f s one Kendrick Perkins going to be joining us on the Celtics. Mass arosh Markazi L A times columnist on the Laker who would have thought the Celtics and the Lakers these massive brands right now, they're kind of teetering and then Cotino Moby last hour. Joy Taylor is joining me for what is a gold bar topics that they all sorts of stuff sports diving very kind at the time today are we've had very very lucky NFL free agency. Now's the thing. So we got about about a month. More now of of NBA, don't we go. We get a week off for two for the World Cup. Then it's massive free agency NBA stuff in the world could change in the last hour of the show today. I'm going to give you the dream scenario starting Tuesday with a ping pong lottery. My dream scenario of what would happen. The chaos in the NBA free agency going forward. There was a quote I saw this week by Nick Sabin. It's a really smart quote. And if you're a sports fan or not I want you to listen to it, regardless of what you do. He said success is temporary. It is not continuous be relentless in whatever you do. And what Sabin is telling you is something I've struggled with my entire life live in the moment. Enjoy your successes they go away, their fleeting, I want you to think about this. Was a calf tear. Kevin Durant last warrior moment. You think of this as a dynasty back toback finals one second before that he was the happiest basketball player in the world. He was the best player on the best team. This morning calf tear out of the play offs warriors. One last night without him could win the whole thing without him. You talk about a pivot one second before that. He is what every basketball player wants to be the best in the world on the best team. Now, it's a calf tear and you're hearing things this morning. Like, you know, the warriors are twenty nine to four without him. I kinda liked the Steph team they move a lot better. What if they beat Houston? Folks, you gotta love the moment. And enjoy the moment and put your arms around the moment. Lebron James a year ago. This was the narrative you could take four bartenders with LeBron. They could get to the finals today. He's trapped in the movie, misery. He's James Caan in a bed and Jeannie bus. And I from what I read Linda Rambus are putting blocks between his feet, and they're telling him don't leave. Lebron? I'll be right back. Lebron six months ago he and four bartenders get to the finals this morning LeBron trapped. They could train them to Memphis. He's in the movie, misery. He's in a bad, and they're not letting him leave and they're saying, please don't leave. I feel bad for LeBron this morning. I feel terrible for him. I mean. One minute before. Alabama played Clemson last year one minute before Alabata was too good. For college football, three hours later. Clemson was Alabama Alabama's now chasing Clemson in recruiting in games. Like, you got to put your arms around the great moment. They do not last forever. Kevin durant? One second before. That was the perfect basketball player in America. Best player best team this morning, calf tear, they look better without him. What if they beat Houston a win the finals, they'll be favored over anybody including Milwaukee in the finals? I mean, crazy. All right. Here's something interesting. I've always felt with. You know, it's really funny. This morning. Everybody's banging on Kyrie Irving. Okay. But ask yourself this morning. Who would you rather be kyri Irving or LeBron? I again, LeBron is trapped in a bed blocks between his feet can't get out. He can't he can't he can demand a trade than anything. Kyrie Irving has options. Kyri Irving has all sorts one's. Kyrie Irving can go to Brooklyn go to New York can go to the Lakers. Are you kidding me? The sporting just thinking about this. Everybody is crapping on Kyrie Irving this morning. Kyrie's got all sorts of options. If you think teams watched that series half, the people in the NBA circles are blaming Brad Stevens on this show. Chris, Bruce, our joy, I think it's Brad Stevens kyri Irving's got all sorts options. Now, it wasn't a great two years. It didn't work perfectly. I'd rather be kyri Irving this morning, then LeBron. I'm reading stories this morning. The Rams is now run the Lakers. They can't find a head coach kyri Irvine can pick his coat can pick his team. They're gonna lineup for kyri. You're having. I mean, I it's I would be fine. Waking up this morning is Kyrie Irving, I got all sorts options. Not happy. How it worked? You know? It reminds me this is why I always defend players on this stuff. The one thing you do not want to be as a player is trapped. Okay. Like like my entire career. I've been very lucky started in Vegas loved it. Was ESPN loved it. Here. Love it. I was in Tampa for two years did not love it. But you know, what I could get out. This is why I always defend star players when everybody tells me about star players, and mobility, and you don't like it, if I'm honest, I wouldn't leave because they've got a really good owner and a really good coach. And Chris Middleton, really good. That's great. But the most powerful guy in basketball, LeBron James this morning. I think he's got one of the worst situations in the league. He can't get it out. He can't get out. He didn't trust the owner. He didn't have a coach he had. No, the Rams family got a bunch of young guys, then aren't at his level. I mean, that's where you do not want to be in the NBA. Forget the kyri situation. He's all good. He's got options in life. Lebron doesn't. I mean, the Brown's got no option, by the way, Charles Barkley said something last night. I want to address this. Now for whatever reasons. I'm not a psychologist. I'm not a sociologist. But I wanna talk about Steph curry first second is that. Players around the league, including Michael Jordan respect Westbrook, more than Steph curry at Adam get it. I don't know how you can watch the two and think definitively Westbrook over curry, I've talked to players they like Westbrook tougher relentless hard not finesse. Maybe it's because Steph curry is an an alpha. Maybe it's because they see him as soft because his dad played in the league, and he likes golf, and he's got those pharmaceutical shoes, whatever it is in the NBA. It's really players all respected, Michael, they all respected Koby. They still all respect Westbrook. They there's something about staff and former NBA stars and Kern NBA stars. They just don't respect him. And Charles Barkley said this last night about the warriors going forward. There were I got no chance of winning without Kevin rent this series this series or any series. He made them a dynasty less. Don't sleep on. It people say what they want. It. Did it was terrific, and he wants them to they lost here. But that was like five years ago people act like that was two years ago. They did not become a juggernaut onto Katie got everybody who knows best ball. He's the guy who made them down STI. They wanna title without K D. They what they set an NBA record without K D, And they were a jumper from Kyrie Irving from beating them again. First of all they were great without K D And they're great with him. But if they don't wanna third title this year, are they a dynasty or just great. We have data. Twenty nine and four are the warriors. When Steph plays in Katie doesn't. You don't think they can beat Portland. They can't win one of the next two against Houston. They couldn't beat a Milwaukee really think about that. He's the only unanimous MVP winner ever. And because Katie is hurt. Charles Barkley believes. There are done. It's fascinating to me. I've never seen. There's a Steve Nash quality, Steve Nash battle with this. When he was the MVP is it because they're small they're not physical. They're not trash talkers that I don't know what it is. I'm not a psychologist, but the idea that they can't win without they did they did win without Katie. And they came within one more shot of winning and they set a record, and they beat Houston last night and Curry's a nightmare for James harden the guard, and he's way better than Chris Paul and much better than Gordon and much better than clay, Tom. Listen and the warriors season's over. I don't ever remember. It is unbelievable to me. If you pulled players in the league more of them, like wet stroke who can't win two games in the first round over curry. I've never seen anything like an I don't have an answer. Maybe it's those shoes. Maybe it's these small maybe a team went to Davidson, maybe he's not an alpha. Maybe it's because he recruited K D. Maybe it's because the Joe DiMaggio thing. He's he doesn't want to hang out with players all the time. I don't know what it is. But the idea like they can't beat. They can't beat you. Don't like this Golden State team over Denver or Portland, if they can split the neck to really think they could be Portland. You don't think staff clay Kerr? Draymond Iggy experience. They can't beat Denver Portland. I've never seen anything like it, by the way here the stats here Steph before and after katie's injury. The last night before he was one freight on threes. Katie gets hurt in the last fourteen minutes. It's the old staff. It's the harmonize warriors. No more Capella. It is. Crazy, absolute crazy, Kendrick. Perkins is not he'll be joining us next. Nobody likes stuff Charles unlike staff, unanimous MVP, they can't beat Portland. What can't be Denver? What be sure to catch live editions of the heard weekdays at noon eastern, nine AM Pacific on Fox Sports radio s one and the iheartradio app. Are you following your passion? I'm Carla Marie the host of side Hustler's, I talked to people following their passion outside of their regular job. Everyone either has a side hustle or wants to create a side hustle. Get inspired to start your own business or just hear the story and hustle of every side hustler. Get motivated with side Hustler's, listen and subscribe on the iheartradio app at apple podcasts or. Wherever you listen to podcasts. Welcome back. Discover alert you if they find your social security number on one of those lousy risky websites free for card members sign up. Discover dot com slash freelance. Limitations apply online. Joy Taylor's, joining us, one of my favorite, guys, Kendrick Perkins. It's fascinating he played. He's played with everybody. He played with LeBron kyri in Cleveland. He played with the big three in Boston Pearson. Ray Allen, he played with James harden, and Westbrook and Kevin Durant in Oklahoma City. He played with the pelican two Anthony Davis. He's like the actor. Kevin Baker bacon. They say like six degrees of separation. Kevin bacon. Those everybody in the world. He's worked with every actor ever. And I want to bring on perk Kendrick Perkins. The coward global satellite network. Burke. I said this watching the Celtics last night. I know Kyrie's great. But it doesn't fit, and that's okay. It doesn't mean. He's less great. But as a former Celtic as a former Celtic who has great pride in somebody. That's played with kyri. What did you see in this series witness series? I read the way he went about it was disrespectful to the city of Boston was disrespectful to little organization. And he didn't represent with Celtic pride is all about, you know, I spend my first eight and a half years of my career in Boston in those fans. Unbelievable organization is unbelievable. The history of franchising itself is unbelievable and away. Cowdery one about it. You know, just you know. Okay. Yeah. I struggled okay. Onto the next game. And kind of like, the I don't care attitude, and, you know, just basically, I mean the whole process. I mean, he was just I thought he had got it. But he was just a van leader. And he he didn't represent what. The problems about I mean, and it was proven that in my opinion. He's not a bad, man. I mean, he's a great player Kyrie's league player, but he's not a Batman. And he's a bad, man. When he's on the team when Abhran, but he's not a bad, man. He can't care on team. Let me shift to another guard who I think's better than kyri. He'll go down better, historically, and he revolutionized the game Steph curry, but charlesbourg Charles Barkley and others are saying it's over for the warriors, and it's weird with Steph curry, and I can't figure it out. Russell Westbrook has more respect in the league from players then Steph curry, and I don't think it's close. What is it about staff that many stars former and current don't respect about staff? What is it? I can say is the current players do still curry. I mean, you anything away from stuff. He's two time. MVP? I mean, the guy's talented. I mean, he is he he's a Batman. And we've seen this last night K D went out. And all of a sudden, it was like a light. Switch went on with Steph curry, everybody thought even myself, I'm thinking, oh, Lord. The rock is about the blow to warriors out and still game five and they bought the clothes. And then all of a sudden stuff curry turns at all and make big plays down. Do. I do. I. Oh quarter any becomes Steph curry that we all we all been knowing. But you know, he he took a back seat to Kevin Durant, which is rightfully so. But I think a lot of guys do respects of current. I heard we're assay yesterday. But you know, you gotta show that Manson respect name today's he's done and the things he's been doing throughout his career. He's a Batman. And he's a he's going to go down as one of the greatest point goes to ever play the game. You know, I watch. Kevin durant? Had a great career. But I watched him get hurt last night. And I thought oh my God. Is that the last moment he's a warrior because my guess is. They've already said he's not planning game six if it's a calf care. He's out. Okay. If that's the last moment for Kevin Durant as a warrior PERC. Could I make the argument that he wouldn't leave Golden State if that has last moment that that if they lose he'll come back. I think today we talking about today. I think Katie this is his last time. This is his last season with the warriors. This is not something that he told me, this is just my opinion. I mean, I think K D want to go win elsewhere because I think he's tied to getting discredited for joining a seventy three and nine team. Yeah. So my opinion today, if I, you know, just thinking for Kevin Durant. I mean, if you don't play another game for the warriors this post season, I think this is last guy for the warriors. That would last night was his last game for the war. What what a laughter image, a calf tear. James harden? You played with James harden now one of the knocks on harden has been stamina that at the end of the year. He's not in world lashed shape. He's never been a great. He's not like D Wade where he plays both ends of the floor or Paul Peirce, a Colli Leonard. He's kind of a one end of the floor guy and even. With that he wears down. So I'm watching him last night perk. And when Durant got hurt they gave they gave the team to staff and Steffes want enough picks. It's now Steph team, and they're much faster, and they screen more. And they run more. I thought hardened got tired. You play you played with him. Do you always think stamina's an issue with him is say because this you mean in a pay as years, but dishes James's in unbelievable say, and he's been doing a lot to treat his body. But one thing about it is that is hard to always tell people I never was a least school. I never was a school. A really liked it at all. But James have to do so much offensively for his team to be successful because of the lack of production that he's getting from his other guys. You know, CPA is not CPA right now compelled is not giving them nothing. PJ took it. They're going to play a great basketball. But giants. Have to do so much and going on the other end he had the the guard Klay Thompson or Steph curry they run around. They said pigs. I mean, you know, and in the fourth quarter, they was trapping them. So I mean what else did he do man? I mean, I don't think he got tired. I think he really just left on the court and pay the best basketball any positive play. But I just think at the end of the day the other guys like CPI did step up last night. What's happened to Chris Paul? I don't know how well, you know, him what happened to him. He's a shell of himself. I don't know. It's like it's like he's not being aggressive. This is not the CPA week grown to love or. No. I mean, he's not being aggressive. He don't look confident at all. I don't know. I don't know. You know, I don't want to say the time caught up with him because he's thirty four years old. But you know, he still didn't rate shake when he still Chris Paul. But I don't know. And he's just he he don't look the same right now. He doesn't he doesn't. He not look the sign right now at all, man. So I I don't know what's going on with him. But I know he have two games to get it right to figure it out. Yeah. Finally, if you were LeBron James they butchered the Tyler situation the Lakers. Did you don't know who's running at magic quit if you were LeBron James this morning? Would you go to the Lakers the bus family and said, listen, I came here. I did my best. I got hurt. It didn't work trade me. We would you do that. Or would you stick it out? I mean, if I'm bra, and I if I'm brought in and I know ROY he's gonna stick it out. He's not he's not the type to Bill if those the Casey wouldn't assigned the fool you deal. I mean, I was with him in Cleveland when he was signing one year deals and option on the second in another one year deal he signed a four-year deal. So he was committed to the Lakers now would them not hiring teeth. Lou. They dropped the ball relations a word about every everything else. Besides trying to build a team to win basketball games in bring a championship. And guess what? At this point in time. They dropped the ball with Lou which would have been a perfect fit for the Lakers. So they dropped the ball on Neko. So they came in bronze. He didn't have his hands and none of his perk. It's good talking to you Kendrick Perkins. Thanks, man. Collins is fathom you bet I it's LeBron is always a talking point, obviously on this show on all shows all opinion shows. I mean, he he is a six or seven people whether you're a political host or a sports host Brady LeBron. They just get talked about, right? And there's certain politicians, obviously, we talk about and with LeBron. I was always a defender of LeBron. I've always been like look with the kid came from. He went to Cleveland busted his butt. I defended a move into Miami. And then I thought it was kind of cool shot me moving back to Cleveland and then going Los Angeles. I get it mogul stage. I get it. This year's the first time I've said. He there's the scales are uneven. He went too much business too, much non basketball. It didn't feel right. He didn't feel engage and I was critical of LeBron. But when I saw the two stories come out today one they're trying to trade him and to butcher the Tyler situation. I was back in the LeBron train. I'm like guy give me a break here. I mean, I'm the luckiest guy in the world. I of worked overwhelmingly for great companies, I've been incredibly lucky I had a year and a half and pampa the people were well, meaning, but the station was a mess it had transitioned from CBS to FOX new management, and it was you cannot overcome dysfunction upstairs yet can't ag-. I don't care who you are yet. Can't. And I woke up this morning with LeBron. And I feel sympathy for him. This guy is entire life. He has been a model citizen. He's been. A wonderful guy. Good husband, great, dad. Totally engaged. I didn't like his last six months. And I know he's mad at me. And his people are mad at me. But I will tell you. This you wake up this morning. He is being under served. This is not good enough for him to this is simply not good enough for him. This would be like Brady deciding I've done everything I'm going to go to Miami. And the dolphins do what the dolphins do. They can't figure it out. You got no GM. You know, be be careful. I tell people this all the time. Young people don't chase money chase management. There's a sea of money for talented people. There's not a c- a great management, and I felt this morning sympathy for LeBron. He's good, dude. Who's done it? Right. Didn't love the last six months. But this is embarrassing. If he didn't have if he wasn't married with kids get out of town. And I totally support it like I'm out. I'm not I've proven myself. You haven't I'm out and I'd support him joy with the news. Heard on the new this is the heard line news. Speaking of LeBron he's made it clear. It's everyone who will listen that he's not in charge of the Lakers or telling them what to do. And I would say I have to believe him at this point because this is a whole 'nother level at the stunk Shen. But apparently that's not enough to get the Lakers to trust them, which we saw what their unwillingness to give Tyler contract that went beyond LeBron's contract. Now ESPN CNA Smith reporting that people close to Jeanie Buss are telling her to grade liberal okeydokey. Well, well, you know what? Chris Broussard said this earlier, what is the trade market for him? I don't think there is a big trade market for him, which seems a little silly. Because a team that wants to win now should be in the market for LeBron James. I mean that is what the Lakers are trying to in his numbers were great last year. Yeah. The whole thing was Ron is. Confusing. Feels like we're being a bit reactionary it has tiny touch of the Leonard situation. Whereas like, did you forget that quiet Leonard before he was injured was in the conversation for the second best player in the league, still Brian James? Yes, he had his first injury. Yes. Everyone had their moments. Lebron is down. So we're going to be triumphant. And you know, it's finally fair. It's still a Ron Janes. Just what what what happened and everyone just forget he's on James. Lebron is going to come back in perfect shape. Next year. He has extra time to rehab, his one and. Only injury in his career. Does it right? He's going to come back in the best version of LeBron James that he can possibly beat me know that takes impeccable care of his body this. I don't see what the Lakers are doing. I've never understood this from the very beginning you draw on here for four years, everything that you do from the moments, you know, LeBron's coming here should be to make not only make LeBron happy because we know that that's something that matters to lebrons. But also put the pieces around him. This historically make him successful. Doesn't seem that you're over thinking the situation. And I think the person that's getting a lot in this situation is Pelinka wasn't. He the guy was supposed to be running. This whole situation spoke to be now Rambus is above full Inca. The Rambus is actually I should say are above Palinka. Where's Pelinka fall? And all this. It's bizarre. Alright. So the Celtics off season begins and ends with Kyrie Irving. His decision to resign or go somewhere else will dictate plans free agency and Davis, trade talks and Jalen Brown extension. But following this loss predictably sidestepped questions about agency. I'm gonna be on your back to Boston per se. You'd see my family decompress, do a human beings do to be toys. It's no not to be disappointed. I think that. You know, you take your lessons. If you take your aspirin that they handed us and you move on. A basketball journey, obviously, you know, you want to keep playing, but they put a whole today. So has two options he can sign a five year one hundred and eighty nine million dollar max contract with Boston signing with the team other than the Celtics with be walking away from a guaranteed forty nine million or sign of the team that has cap space, which could be the Lakers Brooklyn Knicks. Yeah. The Mavericks also could pitch teeny kyri Luca Kristaps. Oh, that's interesting. I didn't think about that. Yeah. A lot of players that there's one in ten teams will have room including both New York teams and both LA teams. The nets also have been in the conversation. This this particular free agency is going to be very interesting because there are a lot of players with a lot of state. Just funny Philadelphia. I keep your Philadelphian, Ben, Simmons Simmons and don't work together. Simmons would be easy to trade now 'cause he's had a terrible series. You wouldn't get crushed of you the GM and the Sixers trading and got up in return. Bam beats more popular you put an Embiid on a Dallas with Luca. And and porzingas you put him on a franchise where he can dish. And I don't know Ben Simmons a fascinating piece to me. Nobody's talking about him. I think Philadelphia going to have to move somebody Ben Simmons keep your eye on the whole MBA is going to look very different next season. So finally big big news yesterday thought sports and the stars group announced plans to launch thoughts bet the first of its kind national media and sports wagering. Partnership the United States. It's all sets kickoff in the fall with the launch of two products and nationwide free to play game awarding cash prizes to players directly predict the outcome of sports gains and the FOX bet app, which will give people in states. Regulated betting the opportunity to place real money Fettes. So with the recent legalization of sports gambling certain students as a huge market for digital sports wagering and clear with this partnership that Fox Sports, Don, let me explain this. Okay. So we partnered we bought a part of the company called the stars group. Yes. Okay. Europe's ahead of us on sports gambling. You can go to Liverpool Manchester United game and in the stadium. So Europe is a head of us on this. They've had less stigma with the gambling less political as Asian of gambling. So stars group in Europe is the company of note. That's how you bet we bought a chunk of them, and we're going into business with them Bill to app will release. In the fall, right? Let me talk about the FOX bet app because that's the one I would be on a lot of my friends say where do I put my money? Where's my Bank who do I trust? This is the kind of company you trust. That's your Bank, and you go to the FOX bed app. They'll be two apps. This is the one where you can actually bet real money as long as you're in a state where that's allowed. But this is the future of sports England's ahead of us. Right. The UK's ahead of us. The stars group is the company of record to make your app your digital bats. We bought a piece it's the first ever of its kind where you have a sports network like ours going and owning and being involved for the next thirty years of of my life. This is where this can be where you go to make your sports, huge partnership said that's digital sports. Wagering spaces. Oh, lord. Yeah. Gold rush. Yes. It is Silicon Valley twenty-seven years ago. And now it runs the world at bigger than Wall Street this over the next thirty years. This is going to be sports. The world fair you're gonna watch games on one channel and the same network will have on a channel next to it. You can bet on. I mean, this is the future of our business a joy with the news. Well, that's the news and thanks for stopping by heard lie. Anybody noticed that gronk story talk about that later arosh Markazi L A times on the dysfunction of the Lakers. What does it all mean? Stories breaking last night that if your LeBron James are at best uncomfortable. Be sure to catch live editions of the heard weekdays at noon eastern, nine AM Pacific. Welcome welcome. Welcome back to the Bob left's. That's podcast. That's right. I have all new episodes with your favourite musicians, comedians promoters, and behind the scenes people if you want to know how the entertainment industry, really works. This is the place to tune in for those unfamiliar with my act, I've been writing a newsletter for thirty years. A who's who of? Of industry people subscribe to my newsletter. Why are they tuning in? Because I make sense out of the chaos. I interview people in the music and entertainment industry to find out how they got to where they are what it's like to be in the belly of the beast. These are the stories you want to hear this is not puff pieces. I guarantee you'll be riveted. So every Thursday. Tune into the Bob left's that's podcast on the iheartradio app. Apple podcasts or wherever you listen. To your podcast arosh Markazi is a sports columnist for the LA times, formerly a senior writer at Sports Illustrated and ESPN and you decided I'm going to go back to Los Angeles. I'm gonna I'm gonna cover Los Angeles teams. And boy did you step into a dysfunction salad. You just get this job. And I've never it is remarkable. Generally speaking, there's an advantage to be with the Dow. Cowboys the Green Bay Packers. These historic franchises players wanna play for him Notre Dame coach is one a coach for him. Let me out a moment. Join I talked about this last week when Monty Williams chose the sons that's one of those. Oh, I mean that would like that'd be in college football choosing UCF over Florida. You'd be like, oh Florida's got problems right now, central Florida got the job. Like me ask you, do you think they land any free agent? No superstar free agent. No one that you would want to build a team around in Colin. Let's go back it began with Luke Luke wanted at that point to leave. Because the only way he was going to say, and I think he would have stayed. They wanted to hand pick his assistant coaches, they love that. Apparently. So Lucas like, you know, what let's part ways mutually one of the few mutual parting ways, so he chose to leave to go to the Sacramento Kings. Monty Williams chose to not take the job to go to the Phoenix Suns in Tyron Lou chose. Not to come for self respect. Don't treat me like a first year head coach, let me pick, my assistant coaches. Let me just give me the same contract. Luke, Walton guy Luke Walton had never been a head coach Tyron Lou won a championship. And you're telling me that I got ahead. You're going to hand pick my assistant coaches, and Colin he was already going to walk in with this perception that he was LA bronze guy, and you say give me a chance don't give me the same terms that LeBron has to LeBron's got three years on his deal. You're going to give me a three year contract. Give me a chance to walk in here with my guys and a five year deal Cohen, this is a four billion dollar franchise. You can't give me a five year deal in. If you really believe that I'm your coach give me that kind of respect, and they chose not to what do you make of I know Kurt Rambis, I've met Linda once they both really nice people. I don't have a problem with Jeanie Buss having a confident I think I think lots of people that run lots of organizations have competence, Linda, smart, Kurt smart. What do you make? Are these stories that they I saw this one this morning that they are in genie's ear saying trade? Lebron? Yeah. I I I don't think LeBron's going. I mean, I think he he came here because of Los Angeles y'all been a to a maverick Carter premier and whenever I've been at these movie premieres for shows that they've done whether it's a documentary or the shop, it's so clear that he came here for Los Angeles. He's not going to go to Philadelphia that gonna go someplace else, I gotta me leak executive who said they were in a better position. When Jim bus was there. And I said, well, what are you talking about why? Because at least they had Mitch Cup. Check, colin. They have rob Pelinka Rupp link has never had this job before prior to that. Magic johnson. Magic Johnson never had this job before they have people in place. You've never had this job. Right. So at least with Jim buzz. You had Mitch Cup check which is a respected man around the league. He made a lot of good personnel. Moves for fifteen twenty years and people are going to take his phone calls. There's a lot of people not take properly still. It's interesting. Because Pelinka's getting beat up by by yourself and others in the media. So he's he's kind of pushing back. He doesn't wanna talk to anybody. It's a weird situation where nobody can figure out. I'll just throw this at you. Chris Broussard said this and as we prepare for our show. Arash Arash Markazi, joining us for our radio listeners, we said this morning. You know, I love the ban the eagles. They fought the whole time. They were together in great. They broke up had some individuals success got back together. They're always better together. Never easy with the eagles. They fought the entire time together apart together kyri and LeBron. Okay. It's never been perfect together. They they both think they're ones one is one isn't. And what about kyri what about LeBron being an active recruiter on Kyrie Irving? I think they are the ones who know how good their relationship is. I think they are in a good spot right now. What do they want to be teammates? Again. I'm not quite sure. But you brought up a great point kyri is a hall of fame number two guy. And there's nothing wrong with James worthy hall of fame. Number two, guys Coty Pippen hall of fame number two guy. He's not a number one guy. So if he comes to that realization, and he wants to come to Los Angeles and team up with LeBron that is their best case scenario because right now calling you're looking at Jimmy Butler Kimball. Walker I mean to give him next contract to one of those guys. That's not a smart decision. And that's probably the decision that they will make okay. If I said to you. In in because I would think the Lakers would have to have a coach and general manager when free agency stars player would come to a rudderless ship. So if I said to you who will be the topped take genie out who will be the top two people running the Lakers in a month. Rob Pelinka and Kurt Rambis will be the coach in a month, Jason Kidd. All right. Well, it's a bad spot calling. This is not a job. No, no one's running to take this job. And it's crazy to think like there should be a line out the door. You're talking about the Los Angeles Lakers with LeBron James and imacs contract. This should be a prime job. And you had two guys basically say no thank you to go to the Sacramento Kings. And the Phoenix sons and one guy say, I would rather not work than it work for you guys. It is a bad position right now. Why do you think LeBron would ever demand a trade? You don't think, you know? I I really think he chose Los Angeles. He will retire here. He will live here. He's got movies. The documentaries TV shows. I mean, listen, I don't think he thought it was going to be this bad, but he's not gonna go. Chase ring someplace else. Yeah. Let's shift to Chris Paul who you covered for years with the clippers Iowa's like Chris Wake Forest. Tough smart heady. I thought he and harden would work because her smart dudes, and I always kind of believed that smart people work when you put them together. I don't know. What happened? I always defended Chris on his postseason failures. I said, you know, he's playing with de'andre Jordan's not perfect. Blake can be high maintenance what is happening to Chris Paul. He now appears to be and I'm not I'm being serious James is our best player. Erik Gordon to PJ Tucker's third. I think I trust Clint cappella down low what happened to Chris Paul? He's not shooting. Yeah. I mean, you I mean he is hit that wall. And when he signed that contract caller, I said that is the worst contract right now. I mean that his last year he's making over forty million dollars, and that's three years from today. So he's hit the wall today. Three years from now, he's on the book for over forty million dollars. Do you believe this is a physical thing and not an emotional thing? Yes. He is. I mean, he is a player who has always been nicked up and has not been himself. He plays into the season. He's like Dwayne Wade. He plays halzack leahey's in you. He's up in you like, Dwayne crashes. Yeah. Sick time. He competitive guy that I know like when he does those. Things where he'll hit you in the growing. He he wants to win so badly in for him to be in this situation again where he's hit the wall physically. And he's with a team. That's very good. But just can't get over the hump. It's a very frustrating situation. That's why the clippers had to move on from that core group has good as they were that Chris Paul Griffin. Like, they hit that wall. You know, they absolutely hit a wall. I want to go to the Colli Leonard Colli tonight place, Philadelphia. I think Toronto is going to win. I think Philadelphia has more talent I think is playing it like an MJ absurd level where he doesn't miss shots. Okay. So there's a lot of stories out there, and we both know woes, and we respect him. But I said yesterday his woes bombs the only one I didn't believe which is. Co is considering staying in Toronto. And my pushback is co why doesn't talk nobody knows. And the only time washes said anything on like. Okay. I really I can make a very good sales pitch for Toronto sophisticated city. It's the third biggest city in North America after New York and LA they win. They are building the franchise around him. You can sort of hide they got a major league baseball team. They got their hockey. They got Toronto's a big city. Okay. It's way up north. I can make a compelling argument if they beat Philadelphia that collide doesn't leave Toronto. What are you hearing? I well, listen, I co co why does not even talk to people that he's close with. I don't think anyone truly knows what he's going to do. But I'm going to give you an example. There's going to be a pitch meeting and three people that we know really well are going to walk in there. Jerry West Steve bomber and Doc Rivers three of the most just guys that you want to follow and play for shoes. I mean compare that to the Lakers who role in with seven people in its genie bus, and Linda embassy, Kurt Rambis, and Tim Harrison Jesse can like all. All of those exactly which I do by the way, but Balmer west and doc three the most accomplished people in their particular fields. Listen, if you're in a room with Doc Rivers, you're gonna have been there's a presence with known. That's not that. I can like all the Laker people that I know. I do. Yeah. But if you're trying to if you put bomber one of the richest people in the world, doc and Jerry West and don't discount Jerry West when it comes to these big names talked to Shaquille O'Neal. That's why he came to talk to K D. That was a big reason he went to the warriors stuff arosh Markazi sports columns, the L A times, a newspaper hiring and breaking stories. Our three next one more heard the herd. Streams twenty four hours a day seven days a week within the iheartradio app. Search her to listen live or on-demand whenever you like one eight hundred flowers dot com code heard get twenty four multicolored roses and a vase twenty nine bucks twenty nine ninety nine one eight hundred flowers, but Cotino Mobley over a decade in the NBA all rookie team out of. Rhode island. Okay. So let's start with Katie gets hurt. So I was saying I don't know if the warriors are better without Katie. But they're different without K D And their difference. Really good. It's sprinting around they moved their more fluid. What do you make can the warriors beat Houston without K D? I think they can I've been saying this for a long time Katie to me. It's like you have a mansion. Okay. You live in Manhattan beach or the ocean. Those huge homes. Yeah. Okay. You have fri- you ever Lamborghini, and you have a Bentley. Okay. Yeah. Now, all of a sudden, you purchase a rose Royce. Do you really need the Rolls, Royce you needed Lamborghini? Do you? Right. So Kaby come into the Golden State Warriors is more of like a luxury. It's not an accessory. He's not making them better. When he's also shooter, and they had the two best shooters in the world point. Now, when you said, would you just say, okay, when katie's not there you watch them they moving around question, James Harden's. Jason's hall of ardor they're harder to guard. He's more of a one on one ball. Stay still kind of guy. Stephan. Curry is such a great player to me that you see net the end of the third quarter. Right. It's time to take over there. Moving around the balls this. You know, it's like a hot potato. Yeah. It's harder for Houston. Two guards you 'cause they can't set up their defense is much. Right. So Steph is always gave Chris Paul problems because they moved around a lot Katie comes you get to contain Steph a little more because Katie has the ball in the polls. Steph doesn't move his bagel. He doesn't move as much you know, it. It is interesting that that what K D was to the warriors. He was duplication of what they had. They had great shooters katie's the best mid range to in the league. That's why Draymond so valuable. He's what they're not. He's tough. He's physical sometimes appropriate. He's an energy guy. Draymond his value comes in. But he's he does not duplication like if you've got any company in the world, you don't want to hire the same thing over and over and over and over you wanna hire the weakness the strength. Join Iowa's talk about this new relationship my weaknesses, or my wife, strains, hopefully, I can add things that she can't do. I do think short term. If you ask James harden who would you rather play? I think James would rather play the warriors with K D because I don't think he loves defense. I don't think he's great at defense. I don't think he wants to put the effort on defense and when Katie plays he can be more station. It's more segment. It's more stagnant. Rest on the defensive end sweet easy to not listen. I'm not saying that when katie's out there Steph Klay, Draymond, blah, blah, blah. Oh, yeah. J-? It's it's so much note not bat, but it is harder. When it's no K D, And you have those two guys running around every single way. And you have Golden State has something. Everybody's still have super high Q without K D super high. So that right there they win. They're already up ten against any team before they even play them. So when you have Steph curry and Klay Thompson, would they do is they take a back seat to K D because they know everybody saying, oh, katie's the best in the world. Yes. Talent wise, you are. But when it comes last time, I checked the best in the world makes everybody else better. I'm ask you this this Katie make Steph curry better know, K D does not make Steph curry better K D at their best. Just over the course of eighty two games. Steph is allowed have lousy night, and you can overcome it. But that's the way to put it like, there's no K D doesn't make stuff better. In fact, if you look at the numbers last night before Katie hurt after Katie hurt Steph to different player, you could literally see it Katina within a minute. You're like, oh, I remember that warrior team that was all your team that was so much fun to watch like three years ago, they go right back into their spending one hundred miles an hour. The reason why he got MVP two years in a row unanimous. It's super hard to guard that person running around every single where now they don't have a lot of size now 'cause boogies gone and katie's out. And I think that's their problem. They've got no side if I had boogie if they can get through Houston, and I get boogie against Denver because if they face Jokic who guards him they do now, I'm not if you gave me I don't think they trust bogut up. Their big concern is not just k D's gone. I think they don't have any size small been small right wheth-. They had bogut. Whether they had what is David Lee early on. They always been small always been out rebounded or what what have you? But their offense makes up for them. Switching everything makes up for all of that. Because today's game is not about posting guys up. Now, who cares? Right. So if you want to shoot a to we're going to shoot we're gonna make seventeen to twenty three's cool keeps shooting you twos. That's that's how they go and aid been successful in the past five six years doing the same thing. Let's shift to kyri. Listen it happens. Good people to good people can get together. And I don't work, and it's okay. Like, not every relationship. Kyri? I is a good, dude. Boston incredible franchise, and I was completely wrong on this. I just figured they'd make it work. And it doesn't I watched last night. They didn't have any fight the coach the star the roster the city the player. I don't think Boston's man overboard. I think if you brought back the same Celtic team. Now, I'm not saying they beat. Milwaukee. But I still think it'd better Toronto. I get better in Indiana. I think they're better in Washington. They may not be better the Milwaukee without kyri, that's different. But I don't think when kyri leaves. And I think he will. I don't think the Celtics are bad. I think the Celtics are really good. And it's kind of like the same dynamic with Katie and Golden State. Golden State one because I accuse high knows guys more established if Katie would want to Golden State early on with Steph curry have flourished with Klay Thompson would have flourished would Draymond green have flourished point. Now you go to Boston. And I I saw Tatum growing I saw Braun growing. I saw Roggio growing. This is a great point. Right. I they stopped growing they stopped growing. And then Kyrie Irving to me just like he has never let a team anyway. Alpha dog was Russell Westbrook. The alpha dog was LeBron James they weren't alpha dogs. So now, you going other teams you think it's that easy to lead a team have at it. It's funny DeAngelis. Russell was drafted. He was really good player at Ohio State comes to the Lakers and the Lakers resigned. Kobe because Time Warner came to him and said, we're not giving this money Dangelo Russell. So they resigned Kobe, and it stunted the Angelo's growth, the Angela goes to Brooklyn, and you're like whole Dangelo is an all-star Victor Oladipo with Westbrook held down. And he goes to Indiana. You're like I got he's an all star to me, the loser in the Kyrie Irving thing. Isn't Brad Stevens this morning? What I watched in the last two weeks the losers. Jason Tatum Jason Tatum. If kyri left is a Dangelo Russell, we everybody bailed on the ngelo. Russell myself included. I'm like, he not very good. I watched them this year. I'm like, oh, he's a late his team. I think the loser in. I think j I think this roster without kyri is a playoff team is a three seed or two seat next year. And I think they're fine. I played at a high level and Stephen Francis. All for St Francis, myself was always arguably one of the best back course in MBA, you were and we always put pressure a defense. I feel bad for Tatum. Because to me you can't. Grow like this. I didn't all of a sudden have because it can be mental you something can happen. Mentally next year. You may knock on wood. Hopefully, never happens. You can get injured. Now, you have another you have to wait to come back and prove it again. But to have with you Tatum to me Tatum. It's kind of like Alan Iverson who I loved to death and mobile the best pound for pound players ever. But Jerry Stackhouse was there. Tim Thomas was there. Larry, Hugh guys were there, and they didn't grow with them. It's just what it is. I just don't like kyri Irvine with them. Yes. Tatum to me because he was the most he has to go on the scene. Yeah. Most promising all of them. Yeah. Much more much higher ceiling than Gordon Hayward. Right. He was the most promising an amount of fan of Gordon Hayward. But he's he was the most promising one to take that franchise to another level and this year stunted his grow. No question. What all they have four or five guys that play the same position to me. And you need they need to. All they're not giving us a him to close games out. Yeah. They didn't even try to give it to him when he was here doing the season to even help him understand like, okay? You know, what you can share this cover? You didn't even try to give it to him. Now close games at the end the game. Now doesn't trust him. I mean think about it. Eight hundred twenty two seven foot twenty two six foot twenty one but your basketball genius. I don't know about genius. But that's not genius. Finally, Lakers right now have been in their history. Well, run now, we see this before where really well in organizations, the New York Giants have some management changes. And it just doesn't doesn't feel great Washington Redskins. My entire life were well run. A Dan Snyder buys them, and it's been chaos. Quarterbacks coaches GM's. Everybody blames everybody else put it's off in the I think Dan Snyder's the problem. So the Lakers right now are a mess. You were with the clippers were you with the? The poorly run clippers of the well-run clippers. I was with. It was weird. Okay. So I came to the casino five. Oh, six. Okay. So you're with a poorly run clip. No. It was pretty good. The first year. I came to clippers up says, I Donald sterling's first time paying a free agent so much money because he didn't really pay free ages, you know, high level free agents, he didn't pay money. So finally, he did and you were there, and I was there. I I came near on that. Right. And the only thing that was kind of weird. Was we were sharing a we? We have to spectrum off of rosecrans. That's what you train close Manhattan beach. Yeah. Type on a house yet. And it was a to me. It was weird because I'm just used to being around like my peers players. Yeah. And then like I'm sitting next to this older like white guide like in. He's like naked. And he's talking to me. It's kind of uncomfortable to talk about the public gym. Yes, public. Well. Yeah. That's not ideal. I think if I was LeBron I would not want to be only organization so clippers and movie cocoon. Yeah. I guess it's definitely cool. It was definitely cool set. Next guy's playing backgammon. There naked. Yeah. Yeah. I get it. Yes. Sure. I mean, jerks hall out of floating at all. It's the craziest thing. Listen, I I'm going to get old. You see degrees is fine. But I thought it was a little. Yeah. Sure. He's so many braces. And so many like. I mean, I saw like an oxygen tank coming across. No, that's not anything. You should be here. That's not how Jerry bias ran the Lakers casino. I've got your back on that one. That would be a little disconcerting for me Cotino Mobley eleven MBA seasons. A well dressed man is fine. This guy's Taylor. Could see anybody joy with the news. This is the headline news cloth hat. Oh, no. No. No. No, no. I do not look heavily for. No, no, no. There are certain untrue. You look good enough adore. You look good. If a tow anti hat person. No, no, no. Because good hair. I have my head is shaped like a bean. I don't look good. I can't do ball, by the way. Let me see your hair, by the way is now. Now, see I think you look. Great bus. No. Because you have the perfect symmetry your faces rounded up. I look if I was bald. I would look like a taxi with its doors open. I would be it would be the most ridiculous looking thing. Very senior. Text me. All right. The terrible ending the Celtics season game five gentleman sweep Tyree went six for twenty one and south of the final eight minutes. And you know, we pretty much could have seen this coming the way that the regular season went with the Celtics about how come I couldn't? She coming. Everybody in America Sonics at me. We discuss it. We discuss it a lot. I just always felt they had enough talent overcome. I had blind when shoes. Yeah. Blinders on he didn't wanna have any doubts. Well after the game Brad Stevens to blame the blame for the season. I'll be the first to say that this is you know, as far as any other year that I've been head coach certainly been the most trying I think I've done I did I did a bad job like at the end of the day like as a coach few team doesn't find its best fit together. That's on you. I think they showed a lot of character at a lot of different times to keep coming back and the stay together. And I've said from the get-go this team in the locker room, and they're all together, his great. We just couldn't find it play together as well as we we had hoped and Milwaukee's really good, by the way that we are not giving Milwaukee any loves today, and they do deserve it. You're absolutely right there their bench. The honest has been incredible assign it'll game when they look awful Middleton's been better than he's ever been. I always worried about this team because I do think it's a baby step league. The warriors are rare. They were like nobody and great usually. It's like oh you win. You win. A first round you in a second Milwaukee last year. I'm like they can't wanna road playoff game. Two. Oh god. They're like eight deep. Well, coach best player Middleton's now. Now, Milwaukee when you watch the series by game three you're like, oh cabinet big mistake. Milwaukee's way better. Yeah. We all down in Milwaukee. Because everything you just said, we didn't know what they're expecting. They've been incredible Janas definitely deserves credit for that Milwaukee. Could not win a road playoff game last year in Boston. So it's like now the best team by Farnese. Right. And and Boston's gonna be okay. It's like you said like they're they're both in end up where they need to be end up in a space that works for him. And I just think that the situation with the Celtics they have too much of the same thing. It's very hard. When you have a young through unproven group guys are trying to not only their value. So that they can get their contracts, but they also are trying to win. And that's a weird dynamic, and you have a bunch of guys you need the ball in their hands to be successful again to rhythm. And the one thing I would say is this, you know, mentioned earlier Brad Stevens is kind of skating and all of this because he has this incredible system was kind of annoyed anointed before actually achieving anything. And that's like saying he's. Not a good coach. But there's a lot of talent on that team in this league is about talent college is not a system. Fells always been a coaches Lee NBA's a players league. And it has been since since I've been a kid in the seventies. I remember talking to a college coach your this is like dating me. But I remember when I went to college in the early eighties, and I was talking to a college basketball coach. And he said, listen I liked college coaching because it's a coaches for right? He goes the NBA's a players league. And he's like, you know, that could get I don't wanna move my family and get fired fifteen minutes later at that time coach didn't make any money. So it's the reality is Brad Stevens is finding out college. You're the king NBA. Kyrie's the king, right. Then you got to make it all work. Yeah. So curtain his wife, Linda Rambus are too powerful voices in the Lakers organization, and we are seeing just how much power they actually have pretty much prevented the Lakers from hiring tie Lewis their next head coach after the four from our own Nick rights. It's pretty apparent that the bus family and rob Pelinka signed off on hiring. Glue last week, and the Rams his Burke the higher convinced the Lakers to hold off as we know negotiations fell apart Tyler essentially locked away. So. Nick right on this joy reported this morning. First things first magic had dinner with genie. That was on the internet. We saw he told her magic toll Jeannie get outta the optics. Don't worry about it. Get the best coach like to your point like get don't worry about optics optics would be different if we had a star studded team, right? And we could be picky and choosy get Tyler. So Jeanie came out of that dinner with magic according to Nick Wright. And like, okay, let's get out of the optics left. Get tight Lou. And then something happened over the next week with the Ramases genie anti Lou blew up. Well, I mean, it has was Wallin and Monty Williams. And now, it's Tyler this isn't an ideal position anymore. There's obviously a an incredible lack of this function at the top. Like, you said that you can't overcome that. And and now Lakers fans are actually they're starting to starting to rally. They've announced the protests outside of Staples Center, noon tomorrow, right? Well, what the organizers says the goal of this is to voice our displeasure of the front office. They have some this is according to Lakers, read it. They have some chance ready sell the team fire Rambus fire Linda heaven, Mikhail no, Jason Kidd, shadow owner slash. Last night on the internet. When I went on the internet last night WW bandwith dot com sell the team was trending that was trending in the country's Selva team. It was a Laker thing. Yeah. Well, I mean like spans upset and rightfully so there's there's a lot of dysfunction going on. So finally, Stephen Jones appears to be putting some pressure publicly on back, Amari Cooper, and Zeke Elliott to take team friendly dear deals, he's playing the there's a lot of benefits to being a cowboy card and had this to say about it. We can talk him into not maximum out doing well. But not, you know, not max and that allows us to have other good football players around him. And we all know what happened just look at the TV booths. And you look at what these players off the field. I if we can put Super Bowl rings on these guys, and you know, they'll be legend around this area for for many, many many years, and what they may give up a little bit in their contracts. They should be able to invest, you know, in being a cowboy and making our team's veteran. You baseball doesn't have a salary cap. So you can pay them whatever you want to pay him. NFL hockey NBA salary caps. And so this is the reality of this is the world we live in now GM's wanting to take a little less than occasionally you get a Dunkin or Brady that will. But boy, it's hard for me to sit there and say, hey, pro athlete football player who gets hurt early take less it that's real hard for me to back like if I'm back Prescott. I think he's better serve taking last. But he's basically been free four three years, which is what I'm saying. You don't Brady is an outlier. Outlier. They are. They are the exception. Not the rule. I admittedly, very pro player. But I also just think. The owners aren't taking discounts. Why the player gonna take a discount a very short window to make money Dak as you said has been essentially working for basically nothing the last three years, he has his all leverage. And there's no reason that he should take who likes salary caps owners. Owners love salary hours. It's it's I don't like it. I never I never think that it's a good thing that players take less money, and I don't like the Tom Brady comparison to this. Because it's he's there's so many other factors in that Brady situation pro athletes, get one hundred million net worth like Dunkin then easier to sail take thirty to thirty five. Right. But you're asking Dak Russell Wilson. They've never made the big boy money. I'm so Mike trout, like those guys, you know, if I've never made it I'm not taking a discount now if I am a legend like Aaron Rodgers got nine commercials. I'll scale back three million years now. I'll get a left tackle. I'll say, okay. You get me left tackle, I'll take four million less. Right. Joy with the news. Well, that's the news and thanks for stopping by heard lie. Not coming up next. Kevin Durant injury. And Kyrie's meltdown. I think if altered somewhat potentially the future the NBA it's called the Hurd tub time machine, I'm gonna tell you starting Tuesday with the NBA lottery, we are gonna. Have massive historic transformational moves among draft picks and players I'll tell you ideal situation. I think I'll surprise you. What I would love to see happen. The Domino's over the next three weeks. That's coming up. Be sure to catch live editions of the heard weekdays at noon eastern, nine AM Pacific on Fox Sports radio affects one and the iheartradio app. One eight hundred flowers dot com code her. Get you twenty four multicolored roses and a vase for twenty nine ninety nine. Good avenue in one eight hundred flowers dot com code her. Katie's injury Kyrie's meltdown. I think you know, the psychology NBA dynasties are unlike NFL dynasties NFL dynasties tend to last a little longer, and when they ended juicy because of free agency NFL doesn't pay the guys like the NBA does NFL guys are like I'm gonna get paid and NFL guys will peel off a really good team and say, I only paid NBA guys make a lot of money their their dynasties, usually, and because of you know, some ego a little injury. So it's all different. But I see the K D stuff. I see the kyri stuff. And I started thinking about all the crazy things that could happen between now and July first when free agency starts, so I'm going to take you through. What what I would if you're telling me, ideally. And I know how you think Colin you love big markets. I like traditional powers being good. I like stars moving to great teams. So it's time to travel into the future. Let's jump into the herd. Hot tub time machine. We don't need those. Her tub time machine. Okay. Let's travel forward. It's the ping pong lottery. This Tuesday may fourteenth the night of the NBA lottery. The Knicks and they've got fourteen and a half percent chance. Win the NBA lottery. There's only two other teams that have a chance the next two. So they win the lottery. It's very exciting. Now, let's travel forward to June sixteenth game seven NBA finals, the warriors get there without k b they beat the bucks in an epic series. This is my wildest fantasy. It's a great series. And now K D. Not their warriors win again without him staffs team it in katie's head. Let's travel now to June twentieth. Neither the NBA draft. Nick, select the most profound college player I have seen in fifteen years. I n Williamson from Duke. Fascinating. Nice picture to go graphic department. That's good. That's gonna look amazing and Adam silver, by the way as tall. So that really amazing. So now we travel to July first first-half agency. Kevin Kevin Durant. Signs with the next. This is what you want. Kevin durant? I'm saying for fantasy. Kevin Durant signs with the Knicks. He and zainur together. Kyri doesn't go to the Knicks. Lebron talks him back in to playing together. Like the eagles band breaks up. They get back together. The Lakers are now relevant. I don't wanna see LeBron Peter out and do nothing for four years. And I know that's not good for the league. It's not any fun. I like watching the Brown play LeBron kyri or now together, by the way. They don't have to give up anything joy that got coups. Ma they got Lonzo. They got Brandon Ingram. They got Josh heart. So they don't have the Guelph anything. Right. Okay. So now the Lakers at a real team. We wouldn't deny that. Now. There are a real team Celtics knowing they have to get through Janas and kyri has left them trade for Anthony Davis because Boston sitting there thinking, okay, we yawn us is the future the east if we don't combat him. We. No chant if you watch that series, Milwaukee was just bigger and stronger, so Anthony Davis, and they've got the pieces to get him goes to the Celtics. So the Celtics now are. Anthony davis. Jalen Brown pledge? Gordon Hayward, Jason Tatum gone. They're still good coli Leonard at the last second harder. Protect goes to the clippers a playoff team that won two games over the warriors. Steve bomber Jerry West Doc Rivers. They bring in. It's a really interesting team. He's there silent assassin star the clippers. Now have a real rivalry in L A would LeBron kyri now Jimmy Butler, Philadelphia. Lot of pieces he signs with the Knicks. Oh, so I get Durant. You're one butlers. You're very talented too. And the kid fee. Nam's Zahn, not kyri. I don't think that's the best fit. I want more size and athleticism in the east. If how did kyri look against the bucks. If you wanna get pass, Milwaukee you better have size Butler. Success durant? Six elevens, I on six six and a half and powerful. So the Knicks and the Lakers and the clippers and the Celtics Zahn. Now, we return back today. Thursday may nine not nearly. Well, still very interesting day. But by the way, Nick right had some good stuff on first thing. I this morning. I got a play this bite. Nick has this source laid out how the Lakers botched the Thai Lou higher. Listen to this. The reason he was not offered the job a week ago is genie. As had been reported was worried about the optics worried that it would look like LeBron was in charge, Jeannie, then had dinner with magic. And magic told her. You cannot worry about the optics. It is about maximizing the time with LeBron tight is a good coach LeBron will respond to tie go with him. And then Linda and Kurt Rambis stepped in Linden, Kurt Rambis. And this is what I'm reporting slowed. This whole thing down and said, if you're going to hire by you need to make some demands do not offer them more than three years, and when Thai asked directly why are you offering me three year deal when Luke got a five year deal? He was told matter of factly. We are hiring you to coach LeBron more than we are hiring you to coach the Lakers LeBron has three years left on his contract. And at that point said, I don't need this and walked away the Lakers tried to spin it like they walked away that has now been roundly refuted. Good stuff by neck, also. And I think you and I talked about this. I was told and arosh Markazi confirm this today. I was told Luke went to the Lakers and said I'm out that was not him getting fired a mutual. It was a mutual separation in arosh Markazi LA times came on today, and confirmed what what I had been told. So I trusted my source, but you know, this idea Luke fired tie get out of here. Mandalay working in leg lamb, VAT, not the way to work in. All right. Good style. Join I'll be back tomorrow, Friday exhausting, sir. Have you ever wondered how the smartest marketers cut through the noise? I'm Bob hitmen chairman and CEO of iheartmedia and on my new show math and magic I'm sitting down with the day's most gifted disrupters, but when I did this people thought, I was crazy there really no other rules aside from, you know, no full frontal nudity glove there and do it. Don't like to follow the trend. Listen it subscribed to math and magic on apple podcast the iheartradio app or wherever you get your podcast.

Lebron Kyrie Irving Los Angeles Lakers LeBron James basketball Steph curry NBA Kevin Durant Houston LeBron kyri Katie Tom Brady Golden State Chris Paul Brad Stevens kyri Los Angeles iheartradio Boston LeBron Frank Vogel
John Irvings Abortion Arguments

The BreakPoint Podcast

03:54 min | 1 year ago

John Irvings Abortion Arguments

"John irving famous for the nineteen eighties novel and subsequent movie the cider house rules just demonstrated the problem with moral outrage if you're a moral relativism the colson center i'm john stonestreet this is breaking the nineteen ninety nine movie the cider house rules one writer john irving in oscar in it elevated him as a pro abortion apologist in his acceptance speech urban thank harvey weinstein's movie company miramax for quote having the courage to make this movie he didn't sancti academy for honoring a movie about about abortion is well is everyone at planned parenthood and the national abortion rights league last week twenty years later in a new york times op ed irving once again took up the role of proabortion apologists and in the process expose just how incoherent his this particular proabortion argument really is and i'm not even talking about the factual problems with a piece like claiming that prior to the eighteen forties abortion was widespread or that are founding fathers got this right the choice having abortion or a child belong to the woman and sorry john are founders put no such right in are founding documents rather supreme court justices imagined abortion rights from numbers and emanations they literally used those terms as ramesh punter rewrote at national review if the founders thought about abortion at all they certainly didn't think in terms of they right to choose and then ignoring the overwhelming evidence for life science and philosophy irving also argued that are first amendment rights include being quote protect it from having someone else's religion practiced on us well then i look forward to his next novel supporting polygamy symphony prohibition of that would be having someone's religion practice on us still wear irving's piece really goes off the rails in his in his self promoting appeal to his own novel into the cider house rules as such it convincing syncing apologetic for abortion what stunning is that still twenty years later irving completely misses the moral chaos that his story justifies the protagonist of the cider house rules is homer wells who grows up in an orphanage in the years prior to world war two they orphanages kind director doctor large treats homer as if he were his son and teachers and everything he knows about madison is specially stat tricks by the time homer leaves your finnish cheeses well trained as any doctor despite never graduating from high school doctored larch is also an abortionist which irving naturally depicts as an act of kindness towards the women he meets in dire straits but homer refuses to perform abortions because as irving himself describes it he's an orphan his mother let him liv now what changes homers mind with young girl who is raped and impregnated by her own father homer works where their father in cider house were mostly illiterate worker stay doing harvest season homer sets aside his objections jackson's and personal history to perform abortions and afterwards the father as homer to rid the rules posted on the wall for the cider house homer does and then the father proclaims someone who doesn't lives here made those rules but they don't know what it's like to leave here we have to make up own rules so you get the argument where you just say someone shouldn't have an abortion if you've never walked in their shoes we shouldn't force are moral values on others it's the same argument irving makes in his op ed of course that same argument that's used to justify abortion in the movie could net also be used to justify be incest in the movie who were we say it's wrong if we don't leave their walk in their shoes by the way the kindly doctor larch while he was also forger he created fake education one professional credentials for homer

john irving twenty years
The Ceiling For the Clippers, Nets Momentum without Irving, and Love Chokes | Heat Check

The NBA Show

37:12 min | 9 months ago

The Ceiling For the Clippers, Nets Momentum without Irving, and Love Chokes | Heat Check

"Today's episode of the NBA Show Heat. Check on the ringer. PODCAST network is brought to you by state farm just like basketball game of life is unpredictable. talked to a state farm agent and get got a teammate. Who can help you navigate the unexpected and help you handle whatever life throws your way all kinds of unpredictable things happen over the Thanksgiving holiday in the NBA? Like James Harden going own for sixty points and three quarters and then sitting is only two off of his career high I thought it was gonna go for Etienne steady sat down that was unexpected. You should get a teammate. Who can help you navigate eight? The unexpected talk to a state farm agent. Today about combining your home and auto insurance. He'd check his also brought to you by Zoro DOT COM Zoro DOT COM. Where you'll find everything you need for businesses of any size and almost any industry? They have tools equipment and supplies for everything. You need whether you need stuff for industries. Industries like electrical plumbing manufacturing were more Zoro's got it from brands you know and trust and Zoro Dot com offers. Amazing customer service for real people based in the United States Visit Z. O. R. O.. Dot Com slash NBA in all lower case letters to sign up for Z mail. And get fifteen percent off your first first order. And now he check I the Czech cover. Welcome to heat check. I'm your host ause joined. I won't be every week by our new producer Steve allman belated. Happy Thanksgiving to you sir. Happy Thanksgiving T. was well how did it go for you. I would imagine that there were some Vegan related items on your Thanksgiving that perhaps you would not have experienced Chicago because now you're in southern California. Yes it's A. It's an ongoing trend for a lot of these people and I gotta say this mushroom gravy. Yeah not exactly like I wasn't for you know I'm going to have to say that. I like mushrooms and I like gravy. It sounds delicious but you you have the longer you stay here. The more that that will happened to you Godspeed on your California travels and thanks to all of you for listening a reminder to please rate and review US and don't forget about all the great NBA content on the rare dot dot com. Young Paolo ESCO blog wrote about trae young making the leap. He also has his biggest questions of the week column. which runs every Monday? This this one is Centered on whether the bucks are the League's best team another questions. Check that out. Also be sure to read Zach Cram on why the post up is deader than dead in the NBA. Later on in the show will discuss Kyrie Irving and how the nets have been surprisingly good without him and whether or not that is going to be a thing and maybe it's already a thing But but first let's review the latest news from around the League and bring in our regular contributors Dan Haley all right one of them's in studio one of them is way across the country and our NYC HQ so. It's heat shock coast to coast with Alien Dan. Hi Guys on Hagen's great to see you. Happy Thanksgiving belated to both of you. We have all kinds ends of fun stuff to discuss from the long weekend in the NBA. So let's review all of that with NBA instant replay. All right. Just some eye popping stuff. That happened happened over the weekend. Guys I the clippers put up one hundred. Fifty points against the wizards have good offense. Not Good enough. Though they lost by twenty five points the covers afterwards. Kawhi Leonard said he still thinks it's going to take time for them to learn each other. Haley put up one fifty and he thinks that they they have room for improvement. I love it. What's a ceiling? What was that Michael Jordan quote? The ceiling is the floor. Sure is the roof. The ceiling is the roof. I mean the twitter thing the ceiling the floor. The ceiling is the roof is. The Sky is galaxy for the clippers. I mean I I will write all that down I I was. I had three of these eye-popping things To lead off the headlines and I just initially thought it would only be two and then I woke up this morning and saw what the clippers did Because that into watching the game and then one hundred and fifty points. Yeah The wizards will they're good for that. They will allow you to walk. Walk into their house and stomp your feet on the couch and just sort of take whatever you want out of the cabinets in the Pantry and do whatever the hell you want to them but The clippers are going to be a team that can do that. We're still I think I think Kawais right like they're kind of still figuring out what it looks like with him Paul George Together. It's hasn't been all that many games all that many minutes yet. But they've looked absolutely sensational when they've had those two guys on the core On the court rather about an plus nine point six hundred with the two of them and as they get more familiar with one another in the rotation shakeout. It should only be go out go. Better from their equally eye-popping perhaps even more impressive the Toronto Raptors Absolutely ruined the UTAH. Jazz perhaps more impressive because of the competition as as. Dan said the wizards not so great. On defense the jazz known for defense the Raptors put up seventy seven in the first half half Haley against the jazz one on the wind by twenty according to Tim Reynolds it is the biggest halftime lead an NBA. This season the big halftime leading raptors. History the biggest halftime deficit deficit and jazz history tied for the eighth biggest margin halftime margin in NBA history. Obviously the raptors sort of took their foot off the gas a little bit but holy Hell. Yeah yeah performance jazz history race feeling again do the ceiling is the roof for the raptors. None of us thought. I want to add that Kyle. lowry is still back in that. This is like some kind of I mean he wouldn't be doing in that you in theory anyway in the situation but there's no way that him being gone is the reason that they're having success or just only going to be more successful when he comes back then. They're going to get better. This is a really good team the second best point differential in the NBA so far It's not like super fluky. They've played a ESPN strict schedule. Has Them at number ten over also like they've played tough teams. They've had injuries as Haley mentioned with Lower Serge. Ibaka being out there. It's just they've nick nurse has sort of had to find a bench and he's found some contributors there through the injuries. Guys like Terrence Davis and Chris Boucher helping out S- calkins been a Lagos seconds here and be. MVP VEEP candidates so far. There's no reason to believe that this is just going to house of cards fall apart. Really really impressive start from the raptors last one that grabbed my attention James Harden one for sixty points in three quarters against the Atlanta Hawks. Two points off his career high only Kobe and Klay have done that. He sat in the fourth quarter Dan. I'll go back to you on this on Are you surprised that he sat. And he didn't just try to like gopher eighty I mean could. There's no way in hell. Kobe would've sat. Well I love the moment whereas like him watching the scoreboard and seeing that he's like two points drive his career high and then he's outgoing like you see him. Kind of shrug me man. Like what the fuck. Why am I not going for this as well? You should should have that reaction James Harden go get yours. I think it's I. It was wild. That was like we'll let him go with that and now it really has me wondering like if he just got sent out there and let go what would be highly where would be in that sort of scoring scenario attic feeling stratosphere stratosphere loves it. He didn't I mean I know I would've loved to see him go for two but it's like the people already fucking hate him this year and last year and think that he's like cheating somehow by gaming the system. Whatever I love that he's like I'm not gonNA play basketball the ball the way you want me to play basketball? I I'm just. I'm just surprised that it didn't go for it. Feels like Long season guns. It's a long. I just heard it the other day. It's a a long season. It's a long season but this seemed like a good opportunity for him to just go out and get his been. Maybe next time All right so for basketball purposes for for actual competition team purposes purposes. The Lakers and the mavs played each other. This was a fun game. The mavs beat the Lakers by fourteen in L. A.. And they did it in those Funky Umbra jerseys that we've discussed previously which by the way then you're laughing. Initially we were all out on it. We did a good call bad call on this and it was a decidedly bad call. It's kind of growing on me so GROWING LIQUOR SO everybody in studio for those of you who can't say because it's podcast as we've established. They're all shaking their heads in disgust at me. They're so so bad they're they're Kinda like I don't know I don't know they're kinda grown on but anyway the mavs snap the Lakers ten game win streak. Luca was incredible. One rebound shy of yet another triple double. He averaged thirty point. Triple double in November Halio Shaughnessy refresh my memory at the beginning of the season when you and Dan became regulars here were you or were you not the only check member who predicted that the mavs would make the playoffs. I was the only heat check number. Who predicted that? The Mazda make the plan we are are as I've said many times the smartest person on this show We clearly underestimated both Luca. And the mavs but you did not. Yeah I mean I think that I'm not GONNA US guys didn't pay attention to local Asher but there's just no way that he wouldn't he wouldn't be a player who wouldn't grow on this I don't think he was the kind of guy who would regressions because he already looked like such a professional because he was a professional before and he's already doing things like that step back three in Lebron's face in the fourth quarter and he's straight up looked better than eighty. Lebron that game. Although it came out later that neither of them was feeling very well as as happens. When you have off games us us? These things happen Dan Devine The Dallas Mavericks. I I will say that. I'm surprised by them. As we record this podcast at thirteen and six puts them fourth in the Western Conference. I thought that if they were going to and you know who knows it is early. No Haley hates that saying but it is really only about a quarter of the way through the season. Maybe that changes one way or the other. But I'm surprised personally that they're this good as a team. They've got a lot of depth. Th Rotations Carlisle have has used have been interesting kept Lucan. KP together are you buying them in the Western in conference long term. I still think I would. At the risk of sounding like a hater. I think I would probably pick either of the LA teams over them in a series. I just think the mismatch problems albums that you could create with Lebron ad or Paul George and Kawhi Leonard together like would be too much for Dallas to handle short series. But I think they've really firmly established themselves. elven it's in the tier below that with you know Houston and Denver and sort of the other teams in that kind of very good here in the West and they're they're building a resume their now six and three against other teams that would be in. The playoffs started today. Four and two against other Western teams. There they just they they look solid and strong the carlisle as you said the figuring out the rotation in the bench. They've got enough to be able to survive when Lucas off the floor. PORZINGIS gets time to sort of get a get rolling. Now he's going to be tethered to to Luca it's the the right way for all that sort of play out and Luca at this level gives them a chance against basically anybody. I really liked the mouse but I do have a couple of postcripts. They had last night. A huge game from Justin Jackson He was three for five from three point. Line fifteen points but I will say that kings fans will tell you that he is can be very inconsistent and they also had a good game from right who also be central but he can also kind of you know not all the time have the intensity so there are some factors there that perhaps like especially against the the clippers. They don't necessarily have the same amount of depth and things have to go right but I don't really see a reason why can't go right. Yeah the depth is relative for sure I I I would like to see more and expected more from Delong ride and yet I think on the whole The mavs are exceeding at least my expectations. Sore the Lakers. Frankly they're seventeen and three they were until Jill they Got Stopped by the Mavericks off to their best start since the Oh eight oh nine season they are fourth in net rating fifth and defend six. That offense they had won ten straight until that mavs loss the first time since two thousand nine and ten Zach Cramp pointed out though however and this is where it gets a little interesting. I love when Zack throws a wrench into the the works here. All ten wins were versus teams with losing records and as young. Paolo pointed out ten of the fourteen games that they will have in December come against teams over. I five hundred. We're going to see what the Lakers are. Made of here Do you think the Lakers are the best team in the NBA. As they had looked record wise. Or are you wondering during the best of that in December I know that you love when I don't take a strong opinion here but I'm I'm not sold on them being the best team in the NBA. Just because there's a lot of others that have to reach our ceiling. We were just talking about quite saying that they haven't figured out him in PG and then this is a six time that they've played team the the only They've played a team with a winning record. But on the positive side you said this is their best start. Since oh eight or nine they WANNA know nine. That's a good point. This is good history lesson and by you Dan Devine Lebron James. You just wrote about him And and why. He's sort of moving the chess pieces around the board. and has this all figured out here. have we we not to say it's very difficult to say that we have forgotten about our slept on Lebron James Given who he is but last season was a disappointment and this year is going certainly certainly to his plan. Are you buying Lebron James and the Lakers a long-term this season doing exactly what they've done so far which is leading the western conference I I I do think they're going to be right at the top of the West all season long. I mean the the the thing that I wrote about for the day after Thanksgiving so everybody was hung over what I posted that really ideal times for for But was that Lebron for as long as we can remember. It's been sort of the Queen on the chessboard. The Guy who can manipulate every matchup every sort of A-. AH figure out how to move everything around the floor to maximum effect. He's also done that. In like the superstructure of the league with his short one plus one contracts and player your movement and sort of agency in terms of how he wants to coordinate his career and his big one now is been bringing in. Anthony Davis figuring out a way to make that work and then re reorganizing the Lakers from from last year is unsuccessful. Model until this new one. the big thing that I wanNA watch for though is because the idea with Anthony Davis was it makes Lebron life easier and it'll give him chance to kind of you know rested and manage himself. Of course the season and so far. They've only been they've actually been outscored by two point. Five points per one hundred possessions. When a on the court and Lebron's he's not on the court that's from cleaning the glass so if they're awesome when they're both on the court they're awesome when Lebron's on without a D. and they haven't been good in a Dino Lebron minute so like that's going going to be something to watch as the season goes on because you can't have Lebron playing this much that you know that well all season long and expected to keep going this way but so far that you have to like what you've seen as Palo Allo and Cram said I want to see what happens in December but I'm encouraged so far Couple returns to discuss skier. Carmelo Anthony is back. I don't know what to make of this. I I will throw it to the two of you. The three and three with Carmelo and the lineup. He's averaging close to to eighteen points per game six rebounds two assists he shooting thirty seven in percent from three. Here's the one. That's very surprising to me Haley. He's playing thirty minutes per game. It's not like he hadn't played in over a year and now he's is sucking up like a significant amount of time because they need him too. I'm just floored by that. Well that was their cell to him you know. When they called him they were like? Hey we really need you you and you really need us. And he was like well. Okay I guess I do but I'm still selling on the Blazers Mellow because defense is incredibly important and He has it's really good that he's been shooting butter from three because they need him to be a spot up shooter. Also don't know that that will maintain throughout the season but he's is undeniably been a spark for them compared to where I think. The Blazers should be now. Dan Miller said when he came back at. This isn't a farewell tour Is he right what does he have left. Well I think it might be right if what mellow winds up being like. I don't know a stretch five at this point in his career like it's we we might have blown past mellow with the four so like Melo as a small ball stretch five right now. It's it's weird. He's taking way more of his shots at the Rim than he has in years fewer a smaller share of his shots from three. But it's kind of like making things work better. He's finishing shing better inside than he has. In a handful of seasons his the defense is a problem obviously if you expect him to be a rim protector of the Line of Defense. That's going to be an issue but he still l. better than what Portland was able to throw up before. So if what you're asking is like come be a release valve offensive player. Help US juice up our offense so that we outscore people when you're on the floor even if you were given a lot of points defensively. Maybe there is a life after you know the the year long Siesta Mellow. And it's been Kinda cool to watch like I. I don't know that I believe this is going to keep going the three wins. They have or to a more two of them are over a really bad bowls team in one against the thunder but on the other hand the blazers sucked against bad teams. Before for this like there's no gimmes for this team maybe there's something to be said for what mellow can do at this point. It's been Kinda cool to watch all develop. Yeah I I don't know what to make of it but it has been interesting going to watch a last return to wrap up headlines here another guy. WHO's back Kinda Dion? Waiters is back you practice with the heat after being suspended for ten games for reportedly taking a gummy on a eighteen light that led to a panic attack. He issued a statement where he apologized. Teammates coaches basketball staff fans the entire organization All of you listening for he check basically everybody everywhere he said he was wrong and he takes responsibility for what happened any sorry for what he put. Everybody through sponsor said his conditioning is quote at least as is level where we can work with him he did not play versus the nets Halio Shaughnessy and Dan Devine echoed up to both of you. What's the path year for Dionne in the heat? We're going to actually see him play. Hi He's owed twelve point one million dollars in total this season in twelve point two next when he becomes a free agent Not Going Welford for Dionne despite the Mayor Culpa that is the worst. I semi positive endorsement. You can give. What's also? Why would is conditioning? have been this bad. You can't work out in the meantime what what after after you can smoke or however you want to endorse and we'd go sure sure I don't know tough to get to be Vienna hospital but the entire time so I don't know why conditioning would be this bad. Except for this species dion waiters. He was also suspended before any of this happened in the preseason. He did not play in the season as an opener. For good reason I mean this is a repetitive thing. It's not going well. Dan divina czar Heat check resident gummy expert. What say you on getting up off the couch to practice because to me I would just WanNa put on a movie or something? I would say if nothing else I think. Dion waiters deserves credit for being at least the level where you can work with him conditioning. I'm not there I'll be honest with you. It's been a tough few months. I'm not at that level of heat conditioning If the question is what's the path for Dionne there isn't one at this point heat fourteen and five. They're one of the best teams in the Eastern Conference. They go a legit eleven or twelve. Deep with all the rookies. They've brought in And their bench inch wings right now. Their bench perimeter group is justice. Winslow Goran Dragic and Tyler Hero. Who of which of those guys should be taking their minutes? I I don't see one. It seems like without an injury or a trade possible. There's not really a good reason to get him back into the rotation and mess up a good thing We'll continue to monitor that Atfer Dion. We'll see if he gets back on the court a couple of injuries as well to keep track of John Moran who's been absolutely killing it in his by far and away the favourite for rookie of the year. He's out and Week week-to-week with back spasms and Marcus smart left. The game against the Knicks with an abdominal injury. Missed about a month last season with an oblique injury so something for us to pay attention to there was NBA instant replay before we go to the main event. Let's take a quick break for a word from our sponsors hiring is challenging. But there's one place you can go. Were hiring simple fast. And smart and growing businesses connect to qualified candidates. ziprecruiter potable co-founder Gretchen hubner experienced. How challenging hiring can be? After unsuccessfully searching for a new game artist to grow with her education tax then she switched to Ziprecruiter and saw an immediate difference Prince and you can too by signing up ziprecruiter dot com slash ringer. NBA Ziprecruiter doesn't depend on candidates. Finding you it finds them for you by using ziprecruiter occur screening questions to filter candidates Gretchen found that easier to focus on the best ones. Then find the right one in fact after posting her job on Ziprecruiter Gretchen touching said. She was honestly surprised. She found qualified applicants so quickly and hired a new game artist in less than two weeks with results like that. It's no wonder four out of five. Employers who post on Ziprecruiter get a quality candidate within the first day ZIPRECRUITER. The smartest way to hire see. Why ziprecruiter is effective for businesses of all sizes? Trust try Ziprecruiter for free at our web address ziprecruiter dot com slash ringer NBA. That's ziprecruiter dot com slash R. I. N. G. R. NBA. It and now I teach I time for the mate of Ed so the nets have been interesting here guys gang to stay on brand Kyrie Irving has been out for a while. He sat out nine straight games with a shoulder. Impingement the nets just just lost on Sunday to the Miami Heat and yet the nets are six and three without one Kyrie irving they beat the Celtics at home on Friday afterwards. A bunch of guys including Marcus smart and Kimber Walker went over and hugged him. Jason Tatum said he that they still talk. Marcus smart said there's no hard feelings and in fact he said quite frankly and I believe this. He gave this quote tour. Your Guy Tim bontemps quite frankly. I'm really honestly tired of hearing about Kyrie. Kyrie is no longer with the Boston Celtics. And it's a slap across the face of everybody on this team mm-hmm that's here now to keep hearing about Kyrie's name so he was not really loving that I don't blame him for that but do you buy Haley. That there's there's no hard feelings because Boston booed the living shit out of him in a win at the garden last week over the nets they really enjoyed doing Kyrie. And that's not surprising and as I said last week as a Philadelphia. It's my God given right Tabu Boston and Philadelphia extremely similar cities despite the fact that both cities would hate hearing that Do you buy that. There's no hard the fans myself included can say we as much as possible but they're very different from the team and they don't see what goes on with the team. I truly do believe this. I also heard Marcus smart on Zach. Lowe's podcast Gasunie kind of said the same thing you just said it didn't work out and you know what you can have two very lovely people in a relationship and it can just not work out. Yeah these things happen And and yet you know I get Y Dan. Boston fans were worked up about this because look he got traded there so that's not his fault but he did so much shit last year at the beginning of the year with the commercial. And saying like you know my plan is to be to have my jersey retired in the rafters. And you know I'll be here as long as you'll have me and then all of a sudden it was well you know. Why are you asking me these questions? And let's figure it out in June and July. Yeah I I mean I think we have to keep in mind. The the the Kyrie's side of that story. which was I had every intention of wanting to be here long term? The beginning of the season happens. He has a death in the family. The kind of shakes them in messes things up for for him and puts him in a very different head space. That plus the struggled throughout the beginning part of the season winds up spiralling. And you know he just felt like he needed a fresh start and and you know every if if the people on the Celtics and the people with the Celtics are comfortable with moving forward from that. That's on them. I don't blame Celtics fans for feeling like you you have to. You can't tell the story of where the Celtics are and where they're going to go for the next handful years without saying without telling the part about Kyrie getting there and things not going the the way they intended to. 'cause there's draft picks into that there's a tree that went into that there's sort of plans and ideas that we were talking about like the next version of the Celtics. Being Kyri and Anthony. Davis Davis like things changed so drastically based on that like butterfly effect. Kind of thing. But you know they're onto the sort of a new path and the celtics seemed to be doing great with think the interesting part to me is like where the nets kind of go from here. Yes yeah more interesting than Boston being upset about how things didn't work out with Kyri is it's very much how things are working out in Brooklyn Without Kyrie again They lost to the Miami Heat but taking that aside they've won on the nets of one five of their last seven. They looked really good. Without Kyrie. Irving especially Spencer Dinwiddie has looked good. Keniakin called him a difference maker. Heli how will that change change when Kyrie gets back out there. Are you surprised by how good the nets have looked By extracting Kyri and giving more run to Spencer Dinwiddie. I wouldn't and say surprise because we saw the nets last year. pull off what they did shorthanded and then also we saw the Celtics Two years ago pull off what they did. Did Wendy Kyrie left the court. But I also wouldn't blame this on Kyrie either. This is not as easy as incorporating Paul George back into the Clippers Kyrie as a ball dominant guard. It's just GonNa take some time and the nets are fortunate that they have players like Spencer. Did Wendy who can step in big games. But ultimately they're going to need Kyri sorry last night after the game. Joe Harris said we live by Dinwiddie dive identity. Something like that down the stretch. That's what you need Kyrie Irving for it will just take time. It's just not as easy to insert him into a team as it is Player like Paul George. Dan Haley brings up a good point. I don't think that it's fair to blame it. All on just like the extraction of Kyri either because don't forget Carol was having a pretty good season and then I'll have Charissa verd- either and I don't hear anybody going all right. There are a better team. Just because carousel averts not on the floor And in you know Garrett Temple's getting more run but it is interesting and as these things tend to go there is sort of a bubbling conversation about you. You know the nets playing better without Kyrie irving is already a thing. The people will talk about it. Certainly a thing people talk about because it's like whatever the the idea in journalism of wants is a can be a fluke twice as a coincidence three times as a trend and it's like if these are if teams are starting if there is a sort of movement toward at least they're not getting crushed with him off the floor. They're moving in a successful way The the offense has been trailing without him. I think they're like bottom. Ten offense in the nine games teams that he's been out but they've also been like a top ten defense with him out and Dinwiddie has stepped into that usage role kind of pretty comfortably and so now. There's the question of when he could win irving's Irving's back to they start together to juggle the rotation differently. Do Bump Dinwiddie back to sort of sixth man role. When is back healthy you know? How does that juggle the rotation? So there's definitely definitely a lot of questions to answer because it. I think it comes back to a lot of it like you know not to use one sort of throwaway quote as like the keystone into all this but I was at a nets practice before they went to China China earlier this summer and Kenny Atkinson was talking about like the difference between bringing in like a different magnitude of star in Kyrie irving than de Ngelo Russell. Guys they'd had and and he said basically like it's interesting to see how guys respond to it and the thing you really WanNa see his do guys just sort of recede and when you have a guy like Kyri that's just such a magnetic offensive sense of force like at some point people are just watching them right and like you have to get used to what it's like to play with that guy and to meet you make yourself a threat and be part of the system as opposed to just letting letting him be the system even if it's really effective system so I all of those questions are still needs to be answered and the injuries in the sort of absences of guys are not GonNa to help with that But I think the more that they do well without him and the more that they've struggled in times with him on the floor the more that's going to be a conversation. Yeah there's there's definitely questions here to answer. I think like Haley Haley at the beginning of the season. You saw Kenny Atkinson sort of trying to work through it in real time because this team I I think is is pretty clearly. There are three bus. Players are Kyrie's Spencer. dinwiddie woody in Carousel avert and there were times. When as Dan mentioned they were sort of staggering their apply or then I and I watched at the beginning of the season probably an unhealthy amount of nets basketball? But there were there were moments when they were closing with all three of those guys on the floor at the same time and they're trying to get a sense of like what's that look like and is that a good thing or a bad thing How much of this? I guess my question is is false to Kenny. Atkinson to really figure out because I think you know and understandably so as people consume the NBA. We immediately look to the number one star. And that's Kyrie Irving right. We put like maybe a disproportionate amount of the onus on him. But I think figuring out this puzzle is very much Kenny. Atkinson thing no long as tyree he is willing to share and the other two are willing to not get upset about losing a bit of touches and possessions in. Yeah absolutely. It's all on him and I think that the he he has to also manage as well as lineups dynamics because Kyri has gone through so much the last couple of years in terms of mentality switches. I mean first of all. He went to Boston and after being under Dan Gelber forever and then wanted to show that he could stay in a good and healthy environment like that and then he moves to the nets a team that he actually committed to. And there's all this pressure on him to be the leader that everyone likes because you know we had all that bad. Pr there and then there's also players you know cares. Liberte and Spencer did when you have more more than proven that they are worthwhile like household names and they probably want their time. They WANNA be put in the right positions so I think actually way more of this falls on Kenny Atkinson and when everyone returns to be healthy. He's the one that we should be putting the most Pressure on Dan. I like as much as anybody probably really because of his last stop and where he played in Boston to Make Fun of Kyrie Irving It's a good. It's a good time however I think like we sometimes forget like when we when we dump on Irene Arena said that he doesn't play well with others we sometimes forget how good he was with the cavs when by the way he was playing with the biggest player on the best player on the the planet I mean like to be able to co exist with Lebron and thrive and win a championship. I should like we should remember that. One were quick to to strike Kim down and say that he's a ball hog or he's a team killer. I mean he played with again Lebron James so as the as he returns Eh one K. D. comes back like long term. What the nets? What do you see this thing being? Yeah I think the the the everything that happens. This season has like a seven foot shroud. A cast over at Rayo kept like a big shadow. which is like there's an empty space in that lineup? That you're going to eventually fill with one of the two three four best players in the world. Hopefully if he has something resembling what he looked like before his injury Kevin Durant so the question to me. Is I think what you expect from them is. This season is Kinda bridgier no matter what and everybody knew that right but the hope was you sort of institute a program scheme in a system that then when you plug. Ah Kevin Right into the culture into the existing thing it makes everything sort of look championship caliber. The fear would be if things get dicey and uncomfortable notable and you know rumbling grumbly throughout the year and then like by the time. Katie comes back everybody's noses out of joint that's a bad scene and that's not what you're looking for but Kyri hiree has shown he can play well with others as you said and expecting him to maybe to carry this carry everything on his own. He's never shown he can do that. And that's really the issue so the idea that they're a package deal they come together We don't know what the full package looks like which gets me to a button on this. which was Spencer Dinwiddie? After last night's game courtesy of ESPN's ESPN's Melinda Andrews. We have no idea what are ceiling is because we are not even close to healthy. We have no idea how good we could be. It's encouraging to know that our floor is continuing to rise. The floor Lore might be the ceiling might be the roof and we really kind of have to wait. Everybody's back in the lineup to find out expertly done Dan. Devine tying a bow on it. That was the the main event that guy's a professional broadcaster. Can I say all right. Let's go to Everybody's favorite segment to wrap up the show. It's time for good call bad call. They want a full call here all right for good call bad call. We go immediately to one. Jim Boylan who seems to be a regular on this particular segment. After yet another bulls lost the drop them six and fourteen. He said we have to keep playing the way. We're playing the winds will come which is hilarious or reporter simple. What makes you? I think the winds will come and Boylan responded. If you build it they will come. You ever seen that movie too which I said. What the fuck is he talking about? Helios Shaughnessy Z.. Here's my question. Forget about that particular because I have no idea that was a complete non sequitur but then I started thinking like maybe he just answer all questions in completely random quotes Good call bad call on that idea. I'm just the girl standing in front of a Boylan asking him to keep it up. May the force be with you. Jim Pat Devine. Good call but Haley. Shaughnessy what the best call of the year. Thank you thank thank goodness. Show us us. Cost Steve noted Bulls Fan Resident Bulls Fan extremely good call. Some men just want to watch the world burn extremely extremely good call A sweep it off. TJ McConnell returned to Philadelphia not surprisingly unlike kyrie Irving at Boston philly knows how to welcome. Somebody back cheered him as a returning hero T was greeted though pretty. Interestingly by both his former teammate Joel embiid and his former coach Brett Brown Joel embiid after to the game. recreated the post game after TJ had one on a game winning shot a couple of years ago. Joel embiid choked him with a love. Choke it 'cause it's a lot you know that's how it that's what you doing Philadelphia. Everybody gives a love choke to say. Hello did that again. After the game and then during the game brown gave him like a belly rub which which I thought was pretty great so good caller bad call on the unique way that the sixers welcome. TJ Back to the Foltz look man. I'm not telling people what to do as long as the belly. Rubbing in the choking is consensual. Welcome back to Philly. TJ That's a good call halio Shaughnessy really shines in this segment. Dan Devine I would agree like I'm not here to Yuck yum men you as long as you guys are both on board with it. That's cool by me I don't I'd be interested in learning a lot. More about how the choking king came to be a big part of Joel and MTV's relationship But if they want to continue that that's on them and belly rubs listened to you good boy. All good voices are belly. That's that's what I thought too like when I saw that I'm like wow. He's literally giving him a belly rub like scratching behind his ear. MIGHT BE NEXT Steve. How do you feel about this? Good call to the sentiment bad call all to the term love choking maybe some hostile work environment be are there. You're from Chicago. Everybody in Philadelphia knows knows about the love choke. It's a good call. Last one here presented by our very own Halio. Shaughnessy Haley you take it away and then also you're the first vote on this okay. Gang Bang good caller Bicol Brad. Stevens was very unhappy on the bench with the result of this challenge and he said quote. I'm done with these fucking challenges. This is is unbelievable. I'M GOING TO GO I. I'M A lady here. I have never cost not even in the last ten seconds to read that. So this is a really bad call for me Dan. Devine otherwise wholesome Brad Stevens cursing and setting. He's done with these fucking challenges. I mean you really hate to see it. It's unfortunate that Brad Stevens is feels like he's got to resort to the potty mouth behavior You really wonder if the culture in Boston soon of sustain survive is kind of ridiculous behavior from a head coach. Yeah Puritanical Boston. They never curse up there. Steve What what say you. It's absolutely no city for such behavior like that so extremely bad extremely bad. Call the Celtics off to a really hot start. Fourteen in five this could ruin their season. Could put Brad Stevens on the hot seat. It's a BC. Brad I don't know what. Oh you're doing there buddy. That was good. Call bad call. That was our show. I WANNA thank new. Isaac Steve Almond for producing Dan. Devine Halio Shaughnessy and thank all of you for listening please. Rate and review us read all of our content on the rigor dot com listened to the ringer. NBA show on the Ringer podcast network. All week long he check will be back next week. Thanks for listening gang take.

NBA Kyrie Irving Dan Haley nets Lebron James Dan clippers Dan Devine Boston Celtics basketball James Harden Shaughnessy Haley Lakers Halio Shaughnessy Spencer Dinwiddie Dallas Mavericks Paul George Philadelphia
Ep. 213: Part I of Tyler Gibbs and Jack Irving of Toyota Racing Development's driver development program

NASCAR on NBC

45:48 min | 3 months ago

Ep. 213: Part I of Tyler Gibbs and Jack Irving of Toyota Racing Development's driver development program

"Welcome TO THE ASPIRIN. As the PODCAST. I'm your host riot today. We have a conversation with the brain trust behind Toyota racing development's driver development program. They are Jack Irving and Tyler Gibbs and we did this conversation over Microsoft teams which is a format similar to zoom which. I'm sure many of you been using during the quarantine period. Good conversation. I think learned a lot about how he goes about. Developing its drivers learned a lot about the genesis of the program learned a lot about the analytics and the sports science and the moneyball aspects of the program learned a lot about how they fund the program through sponsorship and then also at the end. We talked alluded about what life has been like trying to develop drivers when drivers aren't really in rural development. Right now what it's like for Jack Irving and Tyler Gibbs again oversee a lot of young drivers coming up. Twitter racing developments pipeline. How they are doing that development. How're they're staying in communication with all these young drivers when none of them are actually racing in the real world and how they're advising them on when and how in if they should get back into the real world racing as restoring see tracks opened up and of course? One of those tracks is Darlington. Raceway where NASCAR will be dropping the green flag Sunday afternoon on Fox. All the coverage that you need is on. Nbc Sports Dot Com Slash. Nascar got dust long Dana McFadden jury Bukowski feeling that setup up with content all week immediately after the checkered flag. Sunday at Darlington raceway. We'll have another edition of Nascar America at home being taped with Jeff. Burton Steve Atar. And I believe during our junior analyzing what happened in Nascar's first race back after a two-month absence that will be on the motor sports and NBC. Youtube Channel. The Nascar America at Home Edition. These videos have been well received. You get the same great insight that you would get on Nascar America and I'm BCS N so lots of great content. We're checking out on the motor sports on. Abc Youtube Channel Also on ABC SPORTS DOT COM SLASH NASCAR. We've got you covered on all things NASCAR and we have you covered here on the Nascar on. Abc podcast. So let's get to the conversation that I had with Jack Irving and Tyler Gibbs right after this guys. Thanks to both of you for being here. I WANNA introduce both of you. One at a time as people can kind of get a little bit of a distinctive sense of. Who's talking to each moment? So we'LL START WITH TYLER. Gibbs tailored rub your title right. General Manager of twitter recent development. Is that correct yet? That's exactly right. Give us a little bit about your background teller still. I've been cheered for twenty three years. It's been a great ride. I started out kind of in operations supply chain and have had the opportunity to move my way up Why came from Cosworth before that or our program and came to tr D. as we were in entering the INDYCAR program and been there ever since and as the general manager. How does driver development fall under your purview? And you have other things that you're sort of responsible for yes so basically. My responsibilities are everything. That's not technical Our technical director Andy Graves covers the technical pieces and everything else Whether it be the team relationships whether e finance and kind of the admin functions whether the supply chain manufacturing all those kinds of things fall under my my Bailiwick Jack is our commercial director. So all of that again falls in Farrah's driver development slots right into that commercial piece Gotcha and let's meet the other guests today. Jack Irving and Jack is tyler mentioned. I understand commercial director as part of the title Senior Manager Commercial Director Interesting Development to. I have that correct that is correct so when I when I signed the contract and I have to write all that out. It's really long but that's what it is so I oversee driver developments software Civilities All of our anything that relates to Any team relationship piece that is xfinity and under would come under me as well Then a few little things with Toyota. You get a lot of opportunity to do a lot of different things so we were lucky enough to to kind of get to play Rabbit. All different types sandboxes. And how long have you been tiered Jack? Ten years actually think it. So here's a funny one. So today is my son's ten and tenure birthday and Tyler hired me about two weeks or three weeks before this birthday and I flew to North Carolina about four days. After this birthday that was that was the introduction to teary. You just had a baby. We're taking him to North Carolina for a week. He did send my wife flowers. That was sweet of them but yet in ten years so I think In a couple of days it'll be ten years we from trading. I guess if your wife's on board with that then you know she's going to be okay with this job if you four days after your son's born very good sport. Yeah that's good so that Kinda gets a little bit my next question so Jack. Are you still in California? Yes so we're based out of California a lot of our corporate headquarters Costa Mesa where our engine development our software team is there. We have a bunch of software engineers who build our software so that's under my group of our commercial group is there Our Commercial Group deals with a little bit more sponsorship related activity and sales of moments from td outside sources So that group is based California. I spend about a week a month before. This pandemic In North Carolina at least among the road around two hundred days year. You know it's one of those things that you kinda get used to. It didn't start that way. Just became that way so for us. Being at a California is kind of comfortable at this point there is something you know about being on a plane and being able to work on a plane to get. Some things done helps as well so but but yet it travel wise. I think if we were restarted all over maybe you would have based in North Carolina just because it's a little bit easier to get around but but there is a certain comfort to how we do it this way and it seems to work for US. Pretty well right and tie your side of that Jack. Just mentioned he flew out there to to talk to you the first time about taking this job North Carolina but are you based in California. And how much time do you spend flitting around the country when things are maybe more normal? Yeah I'm based in California as well so been here the whole time like Jackson. It's it's nice to come home to no matter what time of year it is. We never have to worry about snow or things like that. So it's a nice relief when he gets come home. I'm I'm on the road like Jack. Probably two hundred twenty five days a year or so Spend a week a month or a little more in North Carolina. A lot of races All over the place so where Jack Hits a few more dirt races and What we would classify his grassroots races. Arc cannon super late models I hit a few more cup races and things like that but I try and overlap a little bit in and gets another kids Pretty well as well. You mentioned the kids. That's certainly the reason we we had both of you here for the Nascar on NBC. Podcast I had Lisa Hughes Candy of Turtle Racing. Pr Pitch Me. That you guys are pretty much in the thick of it in that. Toyota racing development driver development program that we hear so much about so whoever wants to go I can just lay out the groundwork and what it all means checks already pointing the Tyler Tyler will go. I in explaining as the general manager of the year. D- what the driver development program means and how it all got started. Why I think Jack tells the story better. It was really something that he he developed. An and really is is his baby. We've been able to support or did along the way Make good use of it but the Jacqueline. Why don't you start off with it because really you? You have the whole thing so you know. Obviously this kind of goes back to Kyle Larson kind of the start of it. All right we were. We were doing some peripheral driver development but it was probably a little bit more financial based in working through the teams and in kind of once. We've Kinda went through the Kyle Larson part of it and in losing kyle and then we had bubba Wallace in a in a kind of a peripheral way also connected in the Air Jones There was this push to try to make it a little bit more formal And also to engage partners to see if there'd be some some desire to work with us to to make it bigger So over Dave Wilson took over as President Tyler. Ni- kind of brainchild this on one of many drives around the country looking going raises and We kind of expanded. It made it a little bit more formal in and then kind of went after the sponsorship piece which is where the commercial side is. We needed sponsorship on top of what twitter was supporting at to try to make it work and we kind of slowly built it from there to to get bigger and bigger to what it is. Now you know. Initially it was it was more of a find drivers and make sure you get them in good cars with good teams which is what we did and then in the last five years it's it's it's Kinda more into what I would consider a little bit. More of a development program were were definitely in the day to day. Lives a lot more Guiding a little bit more to to what is expected of them and immersing them a little bit more in the culture than just kind of seeing him on the weekends so we have a training facility in North Carolina where we do all the driver training and we have a strength conditioning coach. That's out there. We in the media group. That's out there that helps out with capturing media forum. We engage with them. We have a couple of people at a California that can drive if it's their social peace in how often they pose to if you know they're they're doing all the things that they're supposed to be doing Monday through Friday We partner with North Carolina to have a medical piece to it that helps kind of with their day to day. Living we have a nutritionist. That drives a lot of what they're eating and doing every single as well so that we just kinda started adding adding pieces onto it and then we took a little bit more of a sports science approach. We'd work in the beginning with Texas Christian University to help us develop some of this into kind of go through how we were going to set it up and then we've kind of taken that and morphed into kind of what it is at this point. Which is we feel pretty immersive program once you're committed to but you have to commit to it. There's lots of people who I think. WanNa be part of the program in some way or form but there's a day to day input piece you have to engage with us. You HAVE TO FILL OUT FORMS. You have to be online. You have to be doing oliver APP stuff. Then you have to do all the media and the social media pieces of it. So there's a lot to beyond this racing I then all of that gets you into our simulator are really good simulator not just our fund simulator. So there's there's just a lot of pieces that Kinda helped drive drive the program as a whole but that was seven years of developing that in that was after I think tyler I initially thought it was a crazy idea and then kind of pushed it forward so the the crazy idea was so we had had kyle and we'd had bubba and we'd had eric and we'd had Daniel Suarez and just as you as you watched that program and you you see the influence that we had or didn't have could have had when you have a really talented driver You want to keep them in the family. You don't really want to compete against them on Sundays and at the same time. How do you pay for it It's not as if we got a budget increase to cover driver development and so there was kind of a two attack. How do we do? We raise the money and to be candid Jack and his group done a brilliant job with that total puts in relatively speaking of very very small number of very small percentage single digit percentage of what the total is it gets spent on our driver development program and at the same time Christopher rebel coming along so we we watched Christopher kind of had a pretty good feeling that He could be special in his first ten pavement races. He won five of them. A couple of them were pretty big super late model races. Okay again a good indicator that we probably had somebody who had some real talent and points. You don't WanNa waste against them on Sundays. So you begin to kind of work through this Jack and his group were able to raise the funds to to kind of keep the momentum going and kind of roll along and so between the teams between the funding between all of the different pieces. We were able to to kind of begin there. So nate that is that is one of the parts that I find if you were to go back and do it one hundred times. It probably doesn't work from it from a timing perspective you just. We were extremely lucky to have tried it when we did our pushed it when we did and then to get the buying we did there. Were some wars. That happened early on that if they would have gone wrong. Probably you may not be talking to us now in a in at work right but there was you know if Christopher Belt if you if you were to go in and look at his first ten late model races that kind of helped start. The process of one of the kids. Were obviously behind if that goes a different way. The program changes immediately. And so that you had to get buy in from toyoto. But y'all said to get buy in from you get Frontier D. and T. T. or D was not in the business of developing drivers before that wasn't really kind of what we did. And and though we were part of it we weren't necessarily developing and I think if you look at how we engage in all motor sports. Were a little bit more hands on than maybe some other groups and so with development it seemed reasonable to all of us internally that we need to be hands on that that we had to have impact and input and make sure that our vision in our view in our view of the world as a whole kind of came through. I think that's one of the things we asked a lot. You know you can't keep the drivers and you're GONNA lose drivers and we're going to and I think we all know that But our job is to to find the best drivers we can and ultimately helps the sport and it's not about money it's not about funding. It's about finding the best drivers that takes a lot of effort and time We we try all kinds of ways to find different people into two. You know you always get the parents to call you until you they found you know there's the greatest and I'm sure they're right But it's it's hard right. It's people don't realize you know to buy tires and show up at Orange County. Speedway IS GONNA cost a few thousand dollars in into just look at somebody in a plane race track and go out. I mean at they look okay now. What happens when we put a bunch of people next door to door to door on a restart so there's just so much development that just a little bit different than stick in ball sports so There's just an analysis that has taken of. What is the next five years? Look like what is the next ten years look like and so we traditionally look at a lot of young drivers but some of that is just because of where everyone fits in the kind of global look of where we are in motor sports and what the next ten years looks like an. It's just a different way. I think to look at it. We're not a team. We're not looking for somebody to fill a seat tomorrow. It's a little bit longer term than that but but I think one of the byproducts of this program that has helped is I think overall our teams are more unified together right so if you were to go from grassroots team to an architect to truck team to Xfinity team a lot of our teams link extremely well because the drivers have gone through all of those steps which has been something. I think we hoped that would happen but didn't necessarily know that it would happen. But that that has been kind of a a pretty nice byproduct of that wasn't something that necessarily was masterminded before. When you guys talk about that timing and it's not just about finding the sponsorship and putting on that in place and having the infrastructure but also about I would think good results in good drivers was somewhat fortuitous. Here that I mean I would consider Christopher Bell to be a home run. That right is this was starting. You guys essentially had that guy that She said Tyler think he won several late. Model Super Late model races. Or whatever like Bang right out of the gate you guys had to kind of. Can't Miss Prospect. Yeah I mean he certainly made it easier upfront right. It's hard to find money and it's hard to find a good driver while if you have a good driver now you can focus on the money part in and so he did it the right way. He was patient. It's a no brainer. If twitter calls and says we'd like to have you in our driver development program or somehow we see you and your coach you. I'm not saying that everybody jumps in but it's not a big risk to jump into the program there again. Jackson there's a big commitment A lot bigger commitment than people probably recognize or understand when they when they say they want to jump in but back then we were growing this thing as we went you know we knew we needed a plan where we had a plan that we didn't really we'd never done this before so we have the right plan. Are we doing this? The Right Way and Christopher bad on us every bit as much as we bet on him maybe more And so he took a gamble on us. There were a couple of crossroads or forks in the road where he chose us over probably something that looked a little bit better and it worked we were able to reward that loyalty and he just kept winning and so that that helps you know. It's funny too because even the Jones e. piece is hard to you know with Jones. We were close to David today of his dad and and we'd worked with them in in in. This was again the start of it right so we had BUBBA and there was this how we kept. Bubba didn't really work. If you think about what the program could have been to. We could have held onto those guys. I mean Bubba specifically right I mean you get somebody like Bubba. Then you run into Eric and Eric happens to have a certain amount of of ability already. Obviously Kyle helped kind of locate him in and pick him which is kind of what happens with a lot of our program. A lot of our programs are about we do our best to scour and find but the teams are such a pivotal piece right. So it's Keith. Coons with cuyler or Christopher or if it's Kyle Busch with Eric Jones right But then it's kind of maturity of it so at some point with Eric had a really good support system and they had a vision and Eric also had to make decisions along the way of wanting to stay with us in the way that we engage with him and then an fell into to to Christopher. Obviously we worked extremely hard to kind of make that work but those guys I think those three guys in particular when you look at it kind of made it look easy. I mean you look at last year at truckee won four races. I mean it's a ridiculously good trucks and right in obviously bummed when a different way. But there's there's those kind of things fell amion and then even during the Krispies we meet William Byron and have relationship with Bill Byron and William and and he comes out when seven truck races in his first year again. You I could act like that was us saying wow when he was that greet she's in that Canaan car. He looked mazing but the truth. Was you know we had really good relationships? And with our teams and people said he was good and Billy Billy Venturini he was the one that was with William Byron and putting them in our truck. We're able to win a lot of races and and have a chance to win a championship or compete for a championship. And I think that's one of the things that I think. All the always are starting to come around again. This is cyclical development of cyclical. There was a lot of development twenty years ago and then it kind of slows down based on people staying in our sport. But I think you're seeing that again with Ford with some of the stuff they're doing with their program and I en- I hopefully you see that. Get bigger and bigger down the road but you have to be involved right at some point you have to have people who have is on on groups and and you have to be available to to try to to help it grow in. I think that's it's not just about drivers. Yeah there's a driver selection. We can around this about this lot. There's there's a family selection process it asked of work With this too. Obviously the families are extremely important part of this process. And they're they're the ones who put up with it all the way to this point and then they're kind of handing him to us in in a lot of times that's very difficult for some of them to do Letting go is not easy especially in the sport so that's another part of the process but a lot of things have to work out that are beyond just what happens on the track you know a lot of people talk about you know who. This guy was good. That girls good to that person is good in in in the truth is there's just a lot of things that have to come together at the right time to all fit to make it all work and you can do it a hundred times over again in it not turn out the weight as for a lot of drivers so timing is just a big piece of it. You could have a great driver just a work for you at that point and then you need to move on and go to something else based on the big board. You mentioned Jack How. It's different obviously than being team. In the way they operate. But you guys are. Doing team functions like the sponsorship side. That's very interesting to me. I mean I think we've seen as Christopher danced. There were sponsors J. B. Oh I remember that seem to follow him truck xfinity. I don't know if you guys are involved in that. How does that sponsorship side of it work? How do you guys get involved with doing that? You do it. Similar teams do and attaching sponsors to the drivers. How does that work yes? So they're they're all a little bit different because every sponsor has different views and needs at times with what they're what they're promoting or pushing Some of its business business relationship pieces and in some of that will silicate and help a with We've always helped the teams in some form or fashion. Right executive team wise. They would they would help. Whoever it was that would need to be introduced to whoever I think we just tried to formalize it a little bit more and actively searched for sponsorship connections and what would work and there has to be a consumer facing side of it to you know. If you're you're you're going to somebody who's making a for the underside of the car. It really doesn't matter. They don't they don't really care about selling the customers but for somebody like jpl who is who was really one of the first one that we that was at the level we worked with there is. There is a lot of links there right. I mean it was. This sounds kind of funny to go back but beats had just come out with their pill and JBL has a thing called the charge. That's a Bluetooth speaker than being. I think the biggest selling Bluetooth Speaker of all time. Danso thirty million units or something like that as of two years ago and so they had a consumer based pro product but they also were in our our cars and our trucks and so they had a relationship they wanted to have with. Toyota's well they wanted to keep that strong but they also wanted to promote their consumer base products so it was an easy kind of link. Once you've got going on how you were going to do it. And how would link to them but what we found is there are so many things we didn't know You create a lot of content and you have to use social media to help promote those relationships. You also have to win you have to compete and so finding good drivers and winning races is a big part of that because sponsoring a car that finishes Fifteenth Eighteenth Nineteenth. It's a tough way to earn your investment back from a marketing perspective. So we've spent a fair amount of time analyzing the market and what each group would need and we help put together a marketing program for them for them. We have a a group name exit ten at Maryland Baltimore Maryland. Who helps us out with a lot of our at decks and kind of how we engage and they come up with wacky things that we can try or do and we have video person who does a lot of video for the kids to try to make sure that they're actively engaging consistently engaging unsocial is not easy. I mean I think a lot of people see people do it go. Wow it's it's not that hard it's it is. It is really hard to document your life and start putting stuff out there and to do it in a creative way that people wanna see so. That doesn't always work for everybody. So you have to find. The Ray fit for the right sponsors but it was. It was a big part of it for us to start in to learn. We do it similar to the teams but our differences. It's not team based so it's more Toyota racing based so it's about the racing programs about the development program so a lot of the partners can be part of the bigger development program in utilize other drivers and do kind of more engagement or activate in a different way. All the kids have been fantastic ever since we started all actively engaging both sides of it if it's Harrison Burton and creek is doing safe light stuff way before we knew if Krishna safe flight driver which just there was a lot of ways to cross engage in. That's another thing is a lot of. Our kids are not asked to speak to big group serving gauge with with sponsors. Until they're actually doing it. So this gives us a way to get him in front of people who are decision makers or or involved in their businesses and learn a little bit so they can be better at it when they get there because if you go to Mobil one you need to be pretty good when you get to mobile one right. So there's a certain amount of this where there's a lot of trial and error that goes on beforehand and when you have groups like Bill McNally and the West Coast doesn't amazing job at developing kids in that way. He's very engaged. We've been really lucky to have teams who understand that side of it and can actively help with it. So that's again. It's one of the components of raising. It's not the most important part you still have to win races. And ultimately were judging you for wins and losses but it's it's a big big piece in in it's a piece that affects them later. I mean it's a lot of them. They realize it once they get older that okay. That's why we were doing all of that stuff. And that's why I don't say this. Ray say that that's why when. I'm at a party or a man event I'm talking to people and I'm actively engaging because it's important for me to do that. It's it's a fulltime job. I mean being a driver is a lot harder. The stress the ups and downs of it are part of it the racing itself but then it's the Monday through Friday stuff that you have to deal with that does consume an affair amount of time just to get ready for that Saturday race so onto Jack's point each sponsor needs something different and so we're we're different from a team that we just have opportunities in a in a variety of different places in racing so jbl has athletes in the NBA and other places and so they have certain amounted engagement. Socially that way will they need something completely different from us and our ability to provide that across again a variety of different teams. You Look at Exxon Mobil or mobile one they to have a relationship in the NBA but they are a staple product in motor sport and so showing that diversity. We can do that whereas individual team. It's much more difficult because they're not going to start grassroots teams and truck team and this team and they focus on what they're good at and so Jack in his group have done a good job of being able to work with the potential sponsors. What do they need? How can we help fill that for them all the stuff? Jack were Santa about how to help kids with doing social which is interesting to me because I figure anybody under the age of like eighteen knows how to social media burden me but you're right. I'm sure there's a lot of elements there. I WanNa get to all that eventually. Because that's very interesting stuff before we go to all that I just want to go back to what Jack was saying about sports science and how important that is Could you expand on that a little bit so we actively when twitter moved to Plano there was an engagement piece with the Texas Rangers? That kind of happened organically that introduced us to a bunch of really smart guys in baseball and we're already doing some analysis of races and how we were trying to understand who is good. Who wasn't what a race meant so back. Then we were we would take data and we would do our best to kind of figure out if Chris rebel was as good as we thought he was. And we try to figure out what the other cars rated. And then you'd read the drivers and you try to come up with some sort of system to try to understand what that meant for what we were looking for in a race car driver in what other people were looking for in race car drivers back when they were developing. We talked to a lot of people to do that. Then we kind of engage with the rangers and you see how they do it differently in the respective. Just how big sports do it you know. In in how? They engage with With their athletes and the day to piece of how important the if it's health and fitness if it's their mental wellbeing if it's just the way they approach and how they learn the sword we all of us who played ords kind of understand some of that but these stick and ball sports do it at such a high level it was. It was really impressive does so we linked to Texas Christian University at the time they were doing a bunch of analysis for drivers for us We took a bunch of our drivers through their program in and did a bunch of Body analysis mental analysis. Quick twitch type stuff. We worked with them through that process to learn and understand how they did it We work with the Rangers to kind of understand how they did it. That has kind of morphed into US doing a lot of different tours through different places and engagement Through the F. One ranks to understand how they developed drivers and and so we took all the pieces that kind of fit for our application and started putting together a more sports science approached way of engaging with the drivers a little bit more science based beyond just the we think he's good or we think she's good of even you know how you train them and why you train them at the level you train a ads in if you what you know what he does to their body and then how do you train heat. Then how do you add the stressors of it? So there's just a lot of that. I think we have a long way to go from the beginning of it. We were happy to be where we're at now but there's just a long way to go to kind of keep developing it but it's it's a pretty big part of what we do. I mean at some point. I heard this a long time ago and it sticks with me now. We know when you were in school in high school junior high. You got report card at the end of every quarter every semester and it's no different with the drivers and the drivers have to get a report card. They have to understand where they're at. So if you're GONNA have somebody go work out or do some sort of activity and you're gonNA monitor them at some point. They need to understand what they did. And how it worked and what it what. It helped them with her. Didn't help them with. And what didn't work So we've done that. That's kind of been a big part of what we do. So we do body. Scans we do engage with from us. Our our strength conditioning coach our medical staff. I mean all of that so we we do it also same thing social media. We actively track their social media and give him a report card we give them weekly updates. It's it's all that at some point. There's this assumption. I remember this back with Rico was funny drivers who win. Everybody just assumes that they know everything about every car they've ever been in in the truth is they don't a lot of them. They're they're getting into a car for the first time and they haven't they don't know what all the lights mean they don't know what all the all the items go. I mean if you go back to bell even. He hadn't shifted in h transmission when we put him in late model. I mean in that that is common by the way so there's just so much that needs to be learned in in so that's something with Rico. Bring HIM UP. Only because it was a car ran out of gas and one knew what to do when a truck ran out of gas. And there's Matt Craft in Heaven Obsession With Ben Rhodes Rico. And whoever else in the in the in the hauler teaching them that in and it's one of those things that anyone listening to this is going. How stupid could they be? There's a way to deal with that. That's not common and and it sounds funny but they just a race. A truck race is really expensive. And you don't get a lot of them so a lot of times. What we found at least in the beginning was we were spending a lot of money for someone to learn. You know instead of having that figured out before we get there. So that's where some of the sports science is really nifty. Different stuff that's edgy. And then some of it is just basic man. I mean the carbons and what do you do and the teams it? It's interesting because the teams are great. We have great teams but they take in new kids all the time. And there's a certain misunderstanding at times of did I. Did I teach him that? Did I go through that with them? So even navigating. How do that was a big part of of the process of knowing you know when a kid comes any has to go through XYZ? While I need to make sure that rudy is doing it his way that you know whoever on this team is doing the same thing because everybody is getting kids at different times and all the kids are at different levels and so it dirk kid is completely different than the pavement kid? Write some stuff that seems really basic pavement. People is completely. It's the moon for for their kid and so there's a lot of that that we've we've done glossary terms of what the meaning is of each thing. What a dirt meeting is and what a pavement meaning is what they mean when they're combined together. I mean it's pretty amazing amount of stuff that doesn't always fit for every kid anything to add on that front tyler but here sports science and I I heard Jack Target I was thinking maybe these metrics or moneyball or your wise and things but it sounds like it's more basic than that. It's just sort of like understand what you got. It is moneyball that is part of it but it's also the science of the human body right. I mean it's it's exactly how the human body is constructed made. I mean we have specialized equipment that we use that helps. The kids engage better in racing that erasing specific in sports sciences. A lot about that is about your physiological based on the sport you're going to play in how you act how you further enhance those attributes to be ready to play in that particular environment with racing. What's extremely different about racing is one hundred thirty to one hundred and forty degree car. I mean just tearing apart your body in a different way. So it doesn't look like what they're doing is overly aerobic but their body completely decaying in that car and trying to understand that but then also there's the social side of it is psychological side of it. That is completely different because you also have to explain to them that eating a pulled pork sandwich before the race is not the way to be ready to one hundred forty degrees car like I mean and it sounds basic in. You're right there's really. They're really basic parts of it but then they're super complex parts of it and the funny thing is the kids for the most part. They're extremely smart when it comes to that stuff but you also have to actively engage explain. So they buy in right. It's not as simple as just like hey eat fruit or you know. Carbo loading is not a thing anymore. That's not the way we do it anymore. But there's there has to be some some understanding behind Jack touched on it but we have learned a lot of the simple things and those are the things that we focus on there is science to it. There are some analytics math behind it. Jack said we're at the very beginning of this endeavor so while it looks like we have a well buttoned up program. We really do But there's just so much more for us to learn to know to understand. Do we calculate some things? Yes do. They mean anything. Do we get good results that we can make decisions on. Sometimes they line up and sometimes they don't and again this is. This is baseball. Metrics there are thousands of baseball metrics. Which one do you want? War is the big one right now but it used to be era it used to be batting average and it used to be so for us. It's it's really pulling those together and understanding those touching teams for us. The teams are a huge part of the science. They take huge variability out. When you get into Keith coons midget we know what you get and we know that the chances of it breaking down it happens and there are mechanical in every form of racing. But the chances that it's going to break down on a consistent basis over the course of the season is pretty much zero. So you'll have a couple of failures but by and large you will have the equipment that will be set up properly. That will be properly prepared and you will be coached properly to take advantage of that and if you do then we know that you have some talent and it just kinda continues to work. Its Way along there. Same thing with Ben Tarini same thing with Kvm same thing with hr east anything with Jr. just it builds on those things. There are so many talented drivers who not get the opportunity. They probably deserved because they were never in equipment that would allow them to show what they had on a consistent basis against consistently good competition and our believed to take variable out. We can hand on heart. Say We know they had the best opportunity against the best talent and it just didn't work out that's okay we'll move on and they'll move on so it helps on both sides they're like taking out. The variable of the teams knowing the teams are going to be reliable like it helps them because they know they're getting a good stuff. It helps you guys because you know. There's no excuses here the numbers but the data's good I guess is what I'm saying like it'd be reading about. It allows us to take a lot of variables out and teams have come to understand the Intel us. Every driver is great because they want to keep that driver just to they have work. Bander stand our program and know the way that we we're patients but we're also not going to do this forever with the driver that's probably not going to make it and so there's a good balance there. They understand that we're not going to Yank the kid out. After the first week they crashed and so they have some consistency but at the same time. They don't need to tell us that. Kids great 'cause we have no one to fill that seat when that kids out. They know that we have a big enough program and partner with them to speak openly. We need this many races for this for this kid. You need to fill the rest and we can work together that way. I want to get a little bit into what it's been like for you guys this season because obviously driver development works really well when you can actually go to tracks and watch drivers so and. I'm speaking you guys Microsoft teams and I'm looking you guys are both in your houses right now. Jack Actually hasn't more interesting background. Sorry Tyler Scott the punching bag. So what's it been like trying to do driver development during the middle of this pandemic where everything's sort of put on hold for two months? Chili Bowl started out. Well you've had a lot of good performances. The different nights chilly bowl. Yeah a lot of ARC. Young kids did a really nice job at the labels. That was a good start. The season hasn't progressed. Quite like we thought it would yeah. Harrison's win was a good one that was great to see you know after you got through once Atlanta kind of happened. Initially we stopped everything right so us. Being in California geographically the pandemic is different rate. Everywhere is a little bit different depending upon. Where you where. You're at so for California. We shut down quite a little bit earlier than North Carolina. So I think there was a little bit of a sense of urgency from us knowing kind of what happened here but obviously it was a little bit different North Carolina. So you know we. We shut down the performance center quickly and kind of had to deal with with a few things. Just internally of how we're going to engage with the kids And keep him active and then when when it kind of started becoming a much bigger impact to everyone then. We obviously held stopped. Everything we did do some e outreach engagement we we have some APPS that we engage with the kids for workouts nutrition and stuff like that so those most of the kids were active on that that you could give them a routine and they would do it in their house. There was. We've always had a pretty decent. How you workout in the hotel with bands thera- bands and stuff like that. So some of the kids are had already done that. Some do it more than others so there was a little bit more encouragement to do that. We engage. This sounds funny but instagram. One of our private channels that we share with the kids that can engage their instagram. The funny thing is can have it. You can tell them to go to a website. They won't go to a website but they will for sure. Click on instantly. So so that's worked out. We learned that From from one of our nutritionist. That's finished just how you engage in how you actively Kind of keep them motivated. You know there's a lot of tech streams You you also don't want to over inundate them with data that they stopped breeding and stop engaging with so that's been part of it but a lot of it with IRA. Sing has been a lot of fun. So there's been a certain amount of link through that we've always been a big CIM group with our own you know. Tear Sim but At the performance center we have. We have some pretty high end. Simulators simulators there that we use for you know more homes but Carolina ascended for us and so the kids have always use those So we had a way to engage a little bit more with Kinda like Daniels whereas in bell and some of those guys that were competing in the pro invitational. That was the they needed that kind of access until the WIKI. Get them running. Same thing with Kyle. I mean one of the SIMS. We ended up delivering to Kyle's house so there was fair amount of work that had to happen Just during the pandemic to try to keep everybody engaged but then also keep everybody distance. Not with each other is different in young kids. This is shocking. Nineteen twenty year old kids. They don't always fully understand when there's possible issues. You can't put them in a situation where they may engage with each other. Because you know they're they're not supposed to do the Bro. Hug but you as so So we had to be a little bit strict on it. But that's this is another part where parents matter right. We actively have to engage with parents on stuff like that and even the kids or the older kids still parents are engaged in their life are the ones who are making sure that they're safe. And so you know that was. That was another piece of it. But it's been different. I mean not not going to the race. Track is is a bizarre thing in and not being able to see them. We haven't seen him in two months. This is the most. I've been home in ten years so it's different for everybody right. And then the fear to when they started announced racing again is our our kids ready to race. Or You. You'RE GONNA go to Charlotte Man. It's going to be a hundred forty in that car for. I mean Chris rebels going to go six hundred laps man or six hundred miles. I mean it's a ridiculous thing to ask if somebody who hasn't been in a car in a while so you gotta ramp back up and get back working out and back to doing the things of your anaerobic. Lee challenged them similar to the car. So the ready to get in the car. And that's that's with all the drivers I mean that's Arca people that are going to go raise the first road course here soon like I mean. There's just there's a lot of things that come into that in some work even home. Someone has been a big part of that one of the things to nate presses. The infrastructure was in place. Because remember we talk about the training of the performance center? But probably half our kids don't live in the Charlotte area so we have a group of kids who follow the regiment. Who have were not have nutrition protocols that we lay out for them to get tested on a quarterly or every four months basis. Again that report card back to them so they just don't live in Charlotte so we have the tools available for them to know what to do. Know How to do it and so forth but as Jack said the parents have to be helping us in reminding them of how important is we are going to race again and you want to be ready when that time comes but most of the kids are pretty self motivated. You know. I think they all well. We're not gonNA raise for a while. I might have taken the first week to a little soft but after that they begin to ramp back up again and then we're pretty anxious to get started. How do you advise them during the layoff? You just say hey do as much as you can. Or as receiving the world of outlaws late models and sprint cars and drivers. Knoxville last week. Who is watching after you encourage them? As those short tracks and sprints and dirt stuff comes back online to get into that or how do you advise them on all the all that? Yeah I think you know if they can safely race. I'm I'm a fan of kids racing much as he possibly can. I mean in anything that they can and I think it's important forever honestly. I just think it's a big deal. We don't we. Don't get enough races in any way right so you raise once we again and if you had a bad race if you could go race Tuesday at Knoxville. You should progress Tuesday Knoxville So I'm kind of a big fan of that. I also think it's extremely important across develop. I think it makes them better payment razors in Bay being a racer makes you a better dirt. Racer great razors win in everything that they're in That's what makes them great In those are the guys and girls who win championships long-term so I'm a big fan of recent whatever they can we did have a little bit different approach with the Cup guys. There was a little bit more focused on yet. You gotta get to cut raising. You can't put yourself in a position to where you're exposed To anyone who may have have have had it so Travel Wise? We were a little bit not harder necessarily but we advise against it You know in most of them. We don't have this dictatorial dictate Dicta Dick something tutorial. Yeah you know. What if you can rewind that and edit that he just here to make you guys look? It's okay yeah but a lot of good luck with that but but I you know we're we're not we're not like steel hammer. Guys are still guys that are yelling at kids and saying don't do this don't do that. That's not the way we do. It were pretty big collaborators in how that works in in everybody has kind of a what they're trying to accomplish and it's different for each one so we typically with if we're asked for council will give that council and let them make those decisions. There are times where those decisions are ones. We would have made and we will let them know that but it's still their decision. It's very rare that we've ever really had to be. This is really a bad idea. And usually if it's really bad idea it's it's going to cause harm to somebody More than anything else in. Sometimes that happens but with racing it. I think we're probably extremely open more than maybe some other troops because of our involvement in it of just how important it is to cross develop our belief in range in that whole concept of Schnorr opens letting kids race in multiple supports Then than most people. So that was part one of my discussion with Jack. Ving and Tyler Gibbs as you just heard we covered a lot of ground there but still a lot of ground to cover in part to which should be coming out next week. You'll hear a lot about the incoming drivers in the Toyota Racing Development Program. You'll hear Tyler Gibbs Jack Irving discussing what is like knowing that they can't keep everybody and there have been some instances in which they weren't able to keep somebody notably William Byron was in the Toyota racing development driver Volkmann program in and he was one of the ones that got away so some good insight on that front and then intriguing perspective on what it's like dealing with kids. I these for the most part. These are a lot of teenagers that you're dealing with and that comes with some NASCAR MOMS NASCAR DADS who might be considered of the racing equivalents of Little League MOMS Little League DADS. They deal with those in racing. And I think that Tyler Gibbs and Jack Irving have a really unique perspective on what it's like dealing with the parents of race car drivers and essentially filling those parental roles and having these kids handed off to them At this critical juncture is they're trying to become world class race car drivers and also they have some interesting insight on the things that they teach them off the track about how to manage their lives. Things you shouldn't shouldn't say things you shouldn't shouldn't do but also trying to these guys to be themselves as well because as we all know. One of the unfortunate trends in the racing industry say over the last twenty years is that some of the personalities have been bleached out by too much corporate sponsorships. So you WANNA encourage these kids coming along and developing to be themselves and become charismatic drivers that people want to follow. But there's a fine line there and also knowing how to represent multinational corporations while also being yourself so lots of good stuff coming up in part two of this conversation with Tyler Gibbs Jack Irving on the Nascar on NBC podcast so stay tuned for that the NASCAR ON NBC podcasts. Available and apple podcasts. Stitcher Google play spotify. Please leave us a reading review if you like what you hearing at really helps us out and as always if you have any feedback consent me on twitter at Nate Ryan is my handle. Thanks again for listening to the BBC podcast.

Jack President Tyler Toyota twitter North Carolina California Nascar kyle partner bubba Wallace US Jack Irving Tyler Gibbs NASCAR NBC Eric Jones baseball General Manager Microsoft
Hour 2: Baker's Frustration

First Take

46:29 min | 10 months ago

Hour 2: Baker's Frustration

"The teammate means no problems at all absolutely great thing and carries a great great player out of this world player so a lot of situations do you think I think do you think that Kyrie is especially no problems absolutely none what's going on everybody welcome back to I Kyrie Irving Max I wanNA start with you here how confident are you what he was I think there's a solid chance that that happens that as I that were guys are made of and if K D can lead the Brooklyn Nets to a championship Nia since the Nixon seventy three January of seventy three before I was born as the piston platinum standard right but Kareem abdul-jabbar Lebron James like who's actually turned it around in me and said you guys don't like him what he's really saying is I don't know you tell me why but I haven't seen him make a group greater than the sum of its parts yet Lebron came with the talent and then left with talent but on the Celtics it didn't work out and you he's GonNa be the chemistry guy because he got the ball in his hands can he do that and you can transition that too okay you're a point guard but in today's NBA guess does in Avery Bradley's of the world and others to to look at Kyrie irvings average thirty tried to do to Kobe Kobe was an assassin people out there relaxing this is strictly based off the interview that Kevin Durant just granted us right here in Studio what he wants to do but you have to be fixated on that you can be well there's there's a different element to that like if Kevin Durant the winch championship that's what it's going to take now Kyrie Irving eight time that's GonNa Chirp at Bourbon and going and busting his butt you watch that brother as to make sure that he's that kind of dude if he does then you're only talking about them having to have to be one team and that's whoever represents the western conference of the real question is it hasn't played in the but that's not a given because people can't score on Philadelphia right it's not just about being point guard for Kyrie Stephen it's about who's the highest usage player Lebron is by run the show the balls in his hand anyone else that's like Kyrie it's not that he's the point guard members of it including me WanNa see from Kyrie is can he lead that group the scene and the best show in the NBA like competition for that like Koby's Kobe proved in the second round with POW that he could lead a group else on the team could the ball is in Kyrie's hands more than anyone else that's not how I interpreted what Katie said I th you may be right about that interpretation his mental health he has to have this attitude in other words it's not that he doesn't want to be the best godless so he has to just take it one day at a time he has to take song comes up you get up and work right and K. D. is saying he's just GonNa take that approach uh-huh a moment in time where something extra is required for example measure Kevin Durant was here damn right more so the moment uh-huh a moment where you have to rise to the occasion we know he's already okay be right about that but to get to that moment he's got to adopt this Cetera you come in and do the work everyday Katie saying that I don't think Katie is gonNA come out and say this but in my they've all the haters he heard from going and joining the warriors now he's not with a super team that's into but you know he had to he had to race out of here so he gave us the time that he gave communion grind you gotta put something but would him and Kyrie and what so many people have said when those troubled times arrive and the moment presents itself that you got required that's right I believe that's right in the moment of truth and molly that's a great point Brooklyn improving something really wasn't on the front of his mind I don't believe it I think he has but I do think that's why he went to Brooklyn ultimately that was a top of mind I think he was real and I felt like he owned he was he wasn't apologizing I was impressed with them. History truly pregnant missing guy goes great serviced Cornell at the Geico weeds which today for twenty four seven access to licensed agents is pointing to and five start to the season all the questions in doubt appear to be having an effect certainly there's a penalty for next year there was no you don't play you don't know this was happening John it's everybody wants to hear the truth until they actually get it I am who I am and always have been don't complacent my sense of urgency is at all time high and if I offended anybody I'd like to go first yeah go first lesson not get his act together here's the reality gain like Baker Mayfield Fair enough but Baker Mayfield you know what he does the three that ended last season he does know that the team stance the performance all of these things they know now what am does Shawn Watson a few weeks ago was asked a question and his initial Kamei's an explanation of exactly what the play was what the options I want to explain fine but then the storm off when there's a whole bunch of other reporters either and you've shown no leadership qualities whatsoever in this very very you're you're losing you're not meeting up to expectation simply answering questions because we are not to get a bit role with this but we questions were asked the fact that person is asking you a football question because there are other things he could be asked he better get his act together otherwise people are going I've been on social media that's not have the show Watson meant it to put the reporter on the spot reporter asked him a question maybe not you really want me to explain it to you and then went into a detailed explanation it wasn't Deshaun Watson that was great reporters there to get an answer like that and it ended offensive line that has some problems to deal with this kind of stuff but a half dozen other place that he could have asked you about where you know you weren't fine on that way because reporter Steven said then leave everyone else high and dry the idea that Baker says shouldn't he should be himself and this has been great but he should also understand that the point where he's not going to be a starter in the NFL or if he is not a good one we will stop with that when he's winning when he's not winning he can't that doesn't mean that not that much interest because he's not that good that's what's at stake Mayfield doesn't understand is that there's a price to be had when you oh before game running now getting people during and getting after people but measured what Baker Mayfield needs to understand do you know how many coaches and never played at this level but I have the utmost respect for in the Sir and so all this noise at every everyone was talking about warn people about before the season Baker Mayfield oh it's great it's like how do I want my quarterback to be Rodney Emotional rollercoaster Heo I play for Clara's big house gaines was living legend his my first job in the profession after covering high school sports was the coverage you too basketball stuff like that but I- directly learned else I defer because I know there's levels to this they played I did somebody as if we do no it's actually our job to walk up to you as if athlete says you don't know you have any idea how stupid you are you can take your knowledge to us and allow us to do it between you I'd say that was supposed to be completely oblivious ignorant whatever but there's an intimate knowledge in his readers etc expect when a guy like Baker Mayfield comes out and he acts you know what I would sit up there if I were in Cleveland and I had any kind of connection it wii because he won't answer the sports what I'm saying is exactly in other words it's Tom Brady when we brought another one it sounds like kind of a bullying thing but what you're saying is if he wanted to to bring up stuff that's non football related that would make you comfortable represent what he was trying to do for the skit in other words they were accusing him of making fun of eighth that the relationship he has with a man and he reveres that's entirely different I think that that entire thing is right you even if you do know as a reporter reasons you WanNa say this to you Damian though the whole the way you deal with the media and everything and you said he everything under control Tom Brady is the paradigm we'll be now it's all predicated on being a baller distorts bowling and yeah I did it my way wins a playoff game right that's reason I don't like all of that that energy that Baker I listen even have a chance to redeem yourself for another week in basketball those guys play affect on a gain than probably any other sport as important as important this raises this emotional rollercoaster that affects everybody with the way that Baker Mayfield acting his actions the way he's he it's not just about make Baker Mayfield that week that Roger Teammates who's to say that you know you you bring up the emotional stability building fomin if you're doing all those things because you lose it who's to say what kind of impact he's I love to see a ball or do that just to see if it could or you're saying you don't know I don't you gotta think about the coach has a direct effect on all of this there's so many variables now visit the fact that the biggest mistake that was made was taking a second year quarterback as temperamental the best then stop it seriously seriously because traditional shirts weren't all shapes and sizes taller short slim athletic build untuckit has the perfect fit because so whether you're shopping for the perfect gift for the man in your life this holiday season or just trying to craft Loro s to save twenty percent on your first order at checkout that's U. N. T. U. Michael Moore of special player Michael To Push Brady office I'm Scott pushed play our style football that was a coffee offensive in the entire league with Bill Bella check at the helm WanNa hear this I actually think it's Lamar Jackson. I have a sneaking suspicion thing we may have to play that team in the playoffs and Damien what was the player this year there was a story about it

Kyrie Irving Max Geico Cornell Damien twenty percent one day
123 | Clowning Around

Aaron Mahnke's Cabinet of Curiosities

10:27 min | 1 year ago

123 | Clowning Around

"Our world is full of the unexplainable and history is an open book all of these amazing amazing tales right there on display just waiting for us to explore welcome to the cabinet of curiosities. A good president needs to have a lot to win. They need to be likable. They must have sound policies that benefit the american people and well. None of that is actually true. Politicians are cabrera breed mix a pinch of charm dash of authority and a whole heaping bowl of hubris and you'll eventually have yourself a red blooded american individual with grand dreams aims of running the country one man had such a dream over one hundred seventy years ago when he tried running for president his name was dan rice and he made a living as an entertainer. He trained animals. He dabbled and political comedy performed in stage shows n. parodied shakespearean plays with his own humorous humorous versions early in his career when he had no money to his name and only one horse larger circuses and troops made fun of his one horse show although they intended to insult him the aspiring star flipped it around and use the phrase to advertise his surprisingly enjoyable performance as gain in popularity his show was able to generate more income and was eventually dubbed the greatest show on earth years before p t barnum's own traveling circus would fly hi that flag legendary american author mark twain admired rice so much that his description of a circus in adventures of huckleberry finn was based on the performers. The famous spectacle rice was best known for his enduring role as a circus clown. He didn't just run around and perform slapstick for cheering kids though his was more like a stand up comedy routine than your typical clowning around he performed observational humor and sing songs about the news which led audiences inches in on another passion of his politics rice once invited then candidate zachary taylor to campaign aboard his circus wagon encouraging in the future twelfth president of the united states to jump on the bandwagon which by the way is how that phrase came to be later on rice decided to stop sharing the stage with with other politicians and enter the fray himself in eighteen sixty four he ran for the pennsylvania senate using his immense popularity to help power his campaign but when when it later appeared that he wouldn't secure enough votes to gain traction in the polls he dropped out he didn't let the experienced discourage him though rice wanted to serve the people as best he he could and as they say the show must go on when rice tried again four years later to get elected to public office. He aimed higher this time much higher you see he wanted to be the president. At first it seemed the papers were supportive of his plans. He was a national treasure. After all beloved by audiences everywhere everywhere of course rice had his detractors and not everyone thought that a former circus clown had the ability to lead the people in fact during the campaign a newspaper called the somerset perset democrat mocked his bid for the presidency claiming that he had and i quote amassed wealth by catering to the tastes of the very lowest order of society heidi in the disreputable capacity of clown and showman an seemed to open the floodgates more papers followed with rebukes of their own. Although he tried to respond through open letters and opinion pieces his efforts had little effect. It didn't help that popular military general was moving up in the polls no no doubt bolstered by his impressive performance during the civil war so when it became clear that he wouldn't get the nomination rice withdrew from the race allowing ulysses s. grant to go on and become the eighteenth president of the united states. Dan was an entertainer a showman and a patriot he loved his his country and thought of no better way to show that love then to become an elected public servants but don't think of him as a failure he was incredibly patriotic attic and those images of him with his long white beard went on to inspire a character we all know from the recruitment posters were printed and distributed during world wars one in in two. You might not have become president without dan rice. America wouldn't have its most famous mascot divall uncle sam sam mm-hmm typically when someone hears a tapping noise in their house they tend to think the worst it could be a leaky pipe dripping dripping inside the walls or someone on the outside looking for a way in in the case of the irving family. It was an animal that had found its way inside however however in nineteen thirty one on the isle of man it wasn't just an animal the irving's encountered on one fateful september nights james margaret and their daughter voire are- came face to face with creature unlike anything they'd ever seen before or heard it started with scratching and bizarre sounds sounds emanating from the walls the noises which sounded like a cross between a babies cooing and the squeaks of rodents caused them to investigate and that's it's when they were introduced jeff among goose from india and when i say introduced i mean gaffe introduced himself to them with his voice gef explained the irving's that he was a ghost that had taken the form of a mongoose rather than shoo him away or capture him and invite the press to photograph him. The irving's instead invited him to stay with them. He guarded the house from intruders and hunted mice that had found their way inside he put out the fire at night after everyone had gone to bed and acted like the irving's alarm clock waking them up when they'd slept late the family rewarded gaff with food like chocolates and bananas and often brought him with them to the grocery store although he usually stayed outside and talk to himself eventually word got around about the irving's chatty house guest. I and the papers did come knocking. Everyone wanted a glimpse of the talking animal. Some allegedly did claiming that the even heard him speak but not everyone was willing to believe the family story though for one gef had never been caught on camera there were photos of parts of the house were gift was supposedly heard as well as one of james irving pointing to a set of pause coming out of the wall any attempts to snap a picture of the mongoose himself though resulted in shapeless blurs captured options on film and gef didn't just talk. He made grandiose claims about his abilities. He said he could split the atom and read people's minds. He once told the irving's i could kill you all but i won't gaffe also had a strong attachment to the families thirteen year old daughter ouari james james once tried to pull her bed into their bedroom and the mongoose screeched that he would follow her wherever they moved her. This was seen by some as evidence that ouari herself had learned to throw oh her voice making it sound as though it was coming from some small animal in the room when it wasn't naturally people wanted proof there were plenty of stories for sure but very little in the way of actual evidence the irving's allowed photos of footprints and stains on the walls to be taken. They also provided a first sample for study wants once everything was analyzed though it was clear what the irving's really had on their hands a sheepdog not a talking sheep dog just a regular barking working sheepdog their own named mona the for the stains and the footprints all belong to her and the blurry photos they claimed her of jeff those those were of mona to just on the move then after james died in nineteen forty five margaret and voiret sold the house claiming they left gift the mongoose behind very claimed until the day she died in two thousand five that gef had been real she had made him up nor had she performed ventriloquist to fool will everyone into thinking they lived with the talking mongoose in the years following their departure from the house though psychic investigators and ghost hunters stayed there for extended periods hoping to hear from the elusive mongoose what they discovered though were possible explanations for gifts tiny chatty voice as it turned out the walls of the house had been built with significant airspace between the wood on the inside and the stone on the outside that gap basically turned the walls into great eight big amplifiers able to carry voices all over the house without anyone having to shout that's forgive himself few actually believed talking mongoose had lived with the irving's a member of the international institute for psychical research the arise the gaff was nothing more than a creation of james irving a kind of split personality personality. He created to help him deal with the stresses of daily life but that's all it was just a theory. Even though much of the physical evidence points servings dog rather than a talking mongoose the fact is that no one knows who gaffe was or where he came from was he a ghost that had taken the form of a small weasel like creature or was he a figment of james irving's imagination whether we discover the truth or not. There's no denying that the possibilities hostilities are very curious. I hope you've enjoyed today's guided tour of the cabinet of curiosities subscribed for free on apple podcasts or learn more about the show by visiting curiosities podcast dot com the show was created by me erin minke in partnership with how stuff works i make another award winning show called lor which is a podcast book series and television show and you can learn all about it over for at the world of lor dot com and until next time stay curious.

james irving dan rice president irving gef irving james margaret united states irving family james james mark twain zachary taylor somerset cabrera apple pennsylvania senate huckleberry finn gef America
Hour 1: David Irving Retires

First Take

00:00 sec | 1 year ago

Hour 1: David Irving Retires

"Dell small business technology advisers. No, there's nothing small about your business. That's why we offer one on one partnership and reliable PC's with Intel core processors to help you get business done. Call eight seven seven by Dell. What's up TGIF? Welcome in the hallway. You look terrible a little base in my voice. Molly grew up. Overnight will Cain filling in for Molly carom, you've got regular combatants. Max Kellerman here in New York. Stephen alien LA. What's up fellas? Good morning fellows. How y'all doorman? How's everything going to get into today? Yeah. We do. Yeah. We don't hold onto will max Cullen. I say good morning. How are you back to that? I did say that pardon me. Pardon me. You're you're absolutely right. Take you. Good. Good morning. Steven. Oh, I hope you will. Thank you, sir, sir. Now, the gloves come off. Exactly. Born. Trees out of the last time. He's going to be right. This morning. Now as Maxine put on gloves strap mom because we got a little something to start with here. Right. Dallas Cowboys defensive tackle David Irving says he is quitting UNIFIL. Listen a week after the league suspended him indefinitely for violating its policy and program for substance abuse. And this is his by the way, third strike. So Irving being announcement last night on Instagram live, please be advised Irving smoking marijuana here during the video, and he spoke about how he disagreed with the NFL's policy on the substance was. I quit. I want to talk about a suspension and all this other nonsense amount of their. I'm not doing more. You start talking about addiction. It's a sensitive subject. It's funny. You know, some people are, oh, you're dicta to we did to this. And that. I mean, if I'm going to be addicted to something I'd rather be marijuana which was mad at wrong medicine. I do not consider the drug rather than Xanax bars or the the hydros or the Serra quail, and all that crazy that they feed you, you know. So like I said it ain't about smoking weed. There you go. So Stephen A your reaction to David Evans video. You know? Usually everybody expects me to just go off about stay off, the we and all of this other stuff, I'm incredibly sad at this video. I wanna make sure that I emphasize that. I don't find David Ervine ABI wrong about what he is saying about the NFL's policy, particularly when you break into account, the number of drugs that they inject in the players according to him if he's absolutely right. And I don't think we have any reason to believe that he is not. But the point is is that as far as I'm concerned, if you're the NFL you want to have a policy against weed. This is this is a number one right here. It's embarrassing. It really really is. He's a multiple Tom offender. He's cost himself millions of dollars. He only played in two games last year. He's been leaked in two thousand fifteen has. Only played in thirty seven games in that span. Why? Because he he he appears to be an addict, that's really what it comes down to a so so what you're saying. Is that rather than go out there and discipline yourself enough to follow rules and regulations? What you're going to do is cost yourself millions because you can't stop using weed. It makes no sense whatsoever. As far as unless you're just an addict because I don't have a problem with we use for medicinal purposes. I certainly don't have problem with we use because it subsides the pain that you're doing which is why I think it's a conversation worth having with the National Football League. I am totally against we use for recreational youth by professional athletes and before ignorant amongst this world comes out and drove to attack me for that position. I would remind everybody that I have been stating disposition for years, and when they tried to attack me I brought snoop. Dog on this show lot me who gives new meaning to agree room? If you know anything about snoop Dogg, snoop Dogg came on I take and acknowledged along with me that guess what we aint talking about. Just anybody that it's not going to be effective not going to affect your quality of life. If it's not going to compromise your living. We're not talking about we're talking as it pertains to professional athletes. If the rules stipulate that this is something that you can't do. Otherwise is going to cost you millions. Then why allow it to get in the way of your paper, snoop Dogg came on national television and acknowledged that for professional athletes, both of us agreeing. We didn't like to rule, but both of us recognize the fact that it wasn't worth losing millions of dollars. And here David Ervine is really articulating this point a us putting out a video that essentially shows him to either be an addict or absolutely. Positively ignorant undisciplined. Now, I'm not calling him that as a person I'm saying how the video makes him. Look, I don't know him. But it's really sad when you are a professional athlete. You have busted your tail or your life to put yourself in a position to generate millions for yourself max, and you are willing to throw it all away because you can't stay off the weed to do that to yourself and think it's a good thing. It's just one of the saddest things that I've seen to be quite honest with you. All right three things here one David Irving is obviously addicted to a drug not just medicine. I don't have a problem with recreational use. And I'll explain that in a moment. But he has he for him to say, he's not, of course, he's addicted. I suspect by the way that he may be addicted to the delivery system because. Cannabis is not considered an addictive drug, though, we know in life. You can be addicted to all kinds of things including like binge eating and stuff. So stands to reason you can come at least psychologically addicted to a drug even though it shouldn't be a schedule one drug cannabis. But but the point is he may be addicted to nicotine a lot of times like people who think they're addicted to weed they roll it and blunts there's no filter. That's a massive dose of nicotine there inhaling, and they become addicted to the to the cigar paper. And they think they're addicted to weed so he is addicted to something no to sacrifice millions and millions of dollars. He hasn't even made yet on a principled stand because he doesn't want to take a drug test. Obviously, he seems that it seems as addicted to me that's number one. Number two, the recreational point Stephen this is a league that pedals alcohol. They're in bed with alcohol companies you can watch any football game. And you you are sold beer during the football game. And every peer reviewed study ever done in the history of time shows you that alcohol and cannabis are roughly equivalent in terms of the damage, they do if one is worse. It's in fact, alcohol so at the very least Atip a critical that the NFL test for cannabis. Now, you're choosing to do that. It's quasi league. It's legal in a bunch of states. We know if the if ethically or morally if the bar is alcohol than cannabis passes that test and yet they choose to test for that. Anyway, that's an enormous mistaken. And he brought up David Irving brought up the different things that that it's not as bad as totals. It is bad as total. How about this? What's worse for your health, cannabis or tackle football? Which one is worse for your health. You want to test for tackle football. Because I Darren t you you will find every time tackle football is worse for the human body then cannabis so for that league selling you alcohol and promoting damaging the the human body. I love football. I'm not saying rid of football. I'm saying it is beyond hypocritical. It's absurd and it should change the testing for the fact that they test for cannabis use at all. Yes. David Irving's inadequate. No. I don't. I think what he's doing is wise. But this is an NFL issue more than a David Irving. Even a hold on. Can I ask you a quick question on this front max Maxwell? I'm coming to you. Stephen. I do want to clean up one thing. David Irving and clean up. Something he said in his video says he's quitting the NFL. Right, truthfully. The NFL quick David Irving he has failed multiple drug tests over the last two. He was on indefinite suspension. It's a little bit like breaking up with somebody or quit your job after you get fired or the fact that he kept smoking means that he essentially did he chose cannabis over the holy max. But only the only thing on push back on one thing you Stephen A. Both have said is I don't know that we can say definitively that he's addicted people still make bad choices. We just don't know is he giving up all these millions because he makes horrendous choices or because it's dick did. But my question to you, Stephen A is this do you agree with Matt's at the NFL should stop testing for marijuana not agree with that? I don't agree with that at all because because I opposed to we use by professional athletes recreationally, I have no problem with from additional purposes. I have no problem with it. If the pain is so severe that. You know, what we could help subside that like, for example. You're playing in a game during the NFL season. And you feel the need to use it at that particular moment in time because you suffered an injury or whatever the case may be I get that. This is the off season. We're in March. There's no NFL games going on here. And you sitting around puffing. Nah. That's a problem for that's a problem for me in terms of your you want it you're wanting to use it for recreational use. And you want it justified because recreationally why you want to do it. It's because me why do you feel that way about cannabis use recreationally but alcohol, for example? Well, well, listen, well to me, that's a different argument and reason why Mexico's I repeatedly told you that I agree with you in terms of the other drugs that you've brought up and how this should be just as much focus placed on that particularly when you consider the hypocritical. Tendencies of the National Football League to sit up here and use a used to be prohibitive, but not something else like alcohol, and what have you? I totally get that. I've not I've never disagreed with you on that. What I'm saying to you? However is as God that's covered professional sports for a quarter century. I am telling you I've seen many cases with dudes a flat out hot, right? It doesn't affect everybody to save way. And I'm willing to concede that okay? And in the interest of full disclosure, friends, family members and beyond. It's not like weed is I'm oblivious to it. I've seen it. I know people who use it to this day. So it's not like I'm sitting here. Talking about alcohol, though, I've seen people with the problem with that. But that's fine with the NFL if you live in Colorado, and you smoke some weed and Colorado where it's legal you're against player being able to recreationally do that of my response to you is that once again, I told you I'm not opposed to your position about the alcohol. I completely agree with you. What I'm saying is is that I've seen people who are who are high, and they're not they're not fully loaded as they say, they're not feeling and lucid they heard with a professional. Athlete being in that position. Just like I would have them in that position. I would have a problem with them in that position. If it would do to how hall as well. So I do agree with you. It is is that other things should be added. But that doesn't mean you wanna say marijuana should be omitted. Stephen I want to say something else frequently you are charged with playing the so-called race card because you may see things through a racial prison. In fact, cannabis law truly can be seen that way. I brought it up from time to time. The reason it has been stigmatized the reason prohibition persisted at for cannabis after it ended for alcohol loath were prohibited. Then prohibition fell against alcohol and continued against cannabis was because there was a drug czar in this country named Harry S or a government truly fully, right? Was a racist. Zena folk who essentially commissioned propaganda pieces that were simply untrue that led to this classification of cannabis as a schedule one. Drug which is by the definition of schedule. One a lie. The government persists in lying about the effects of cannabis in spite of every bit of scientific evidence. And it was because there was a racist xenophobic drugs. Art, Steven A. He's made like he made statements like like he that it makes the darker races of the world feel they're the equivalent of the white, man. I mean, this is the basis on which you believe that it shouldn't be recreationally out in the first match. You can go that way. I can go to more recent history where the Clinton the Clinton administration and their crime bills, and how that detrimentally affected minority communities as opposed to others. So listen, I get where you're coming from because actually because in terms of cocaine crack, and the don't even get me started with that whole subject that's a different subject for another day. All I'm trying to say to you is I don't oppose what you're saying. What I'm saying is the rules are. Rules, and what I have to speak to this one thing to say that the rule is wrong. There's a different problem when you can't exercise the necessary discipline, and you're willing to allow it to 'cause you cost you millions of dollars disagree with reality. You and I on the same page, David Irving, you got a problem. I mean, I think you're a dicta- to something whether it's cannabis or tobacco in a delivery system of a blunt, whatever you're addicted to something you should check that out rather. I mean, I think there's a problem there. Stephen name. We'll ask you point blank should the NFL. Because now you're saying, hey, it's the rule. I'm saying the rule shouldn't exist. They should strike it down. What do you say about the rule, and I'm saying to you that when I think about the marijuana you marijuana you? I am guest recreational use by players during the season. I should tell you me and the NFL should test. You believe for it. I think that the NFL should test for everything all the stuff that you up max, and the we'd all of it because I need to I don't want. You leave rated in any way when you're out there performing, I want you loose it. I want you coaching. I want you ready to go. I don't want to watch some athlete hot. I don't wanna see that. Okay. I don't really want you sitting there looking listen, you're talking about somebody like me will that a scene and athlete show up at court. And I'm talking about how like looking around what coach coaches to the game. Here's the here's the deal. I've got a question for you about that. We're going to do more of this. Okay. Let's spit it forward, Marcus spears. Joyce a little bit later because I will follow up on that exact point you just made. But we talk about Antonio Brown now. And we're gonna have to do it fairly quickly here. Here's the latest the trade talks surrounding on in Tonio Brown. Heated up overnight. In a statement today. Bills GM. Brandon Beane said the team inquired about Brown. But the sides were unable to come to an agreement Adam Schefter reported earlier this week that a deal for Brown was expected to be in place by today today was the deadline, but this morning, they said nothing is close. Our rod demoss Keat also reporting that the Packers are not involved in the Browns sweepstakes. So max what has happened to the Tonio Brown market? Here has the price change brave. No. I don't think it has. I mean, I think he dropped his price a little by talking and talking and talking, but I said at the time they ain't going to get a first round or I don't think he's expensive. He's older. He could be a problem in the locker room. I think teams would figure, but I do think third rounders too low. Once it gets that a bunch of teams jump in the mix. I've said from the beginning a second rounder if it was a low second round pick, maybe that adds something like a fifth, and then when he kept talking I said, maybe even that went away. But I still think guys that the price is where it's been. It's someone we'll give up a second round pick for Antonio Brown. Well, Mexico amid if you're saying that. The may have changed once he opened his mouth, then the price has changed round pick. I mean, but it's still the point is the top pick. You're gonna get is in the second round that well, let me say this to you. I think the price changed for him when he opened his mouth, obviously and the second Kevin covert said we've got about three teams you're talking about a receive it. It's court over one hundred catches each of the last six seasons for a minimum of twelve hundred eighty seven yards per season. Each of the last six years who's universally recognized as one of the top two receivers in all football consistently over the last five or six years, and you're talking about three teams are interested in him as opposed to ten thirteen fifteen twenty think about that for second. Why would it not be? Why would it not be more than three? Why would it not be a plethora of teams interested in him because he's opened his mouth? He he basically called out his quarterback not to say that Big Ben Rothlisberger should be absorbed. Because I think Antonio Brown was right with some of the. Things that he was saying he's not totally wrong. But the reality is by talking about your quarterback the way that you did by talking about your coach the way that you did by talking about the organization the way that you did you got a plethora teams in the National Football League that's questioned whether or not they want that in their locker room. So that's problematic. And then he goes on a shop when LeBron James and all of them sydell. By the way, they did a great job. Lebron maverick Jamie, FOX to change Anthony Davis the whole crew they will all up in there. But for Antonio Brown to sit up there and mouth off the way that he did before he got traded. I don't think it was the smartest thing in the world for him to do because let me tell you something to organise as is if they watching the show, they certainly get a clip with a show. They can certainly hear the kind of things that he was saying that was counterproductive to what he's openly tried to accomplish. So I think he's compromised themself. I think it's going to cost them dollars. Now might not matter the end because Oakland Raiders may be desperate enough to pull the trigger. Not to mention having him for David Carter. Throw the ball. Derek Carr rather to throw the ball to in Vegas next year, by the way, would be beautiful for Antonio Brown. And I hope it works out for him. But in the end, there is no question that this is not the way that you should go. If you are trying to get paid while also tried to get traded. In fact, max doesn't it look like the price for Brown has changed just this week? There have been reports from the raiders being interested. There was reporting the Las Vegas review journal. They were getting cold feet because of his contract demands. There's conflicting reports or the Packers in or they out the bills at the end or they out to me. It looks like his prices fluctuating and going down this week. I know why you say that. And as I said, it could have changed by what else you get other than the second round pick. Really? I'm talking about the principle price you pay. I never thought it was going to be a first rounder for Antonio Brown because of his age and the contract that he's gonna want and the price that you have to pay in terms of treasure. And the fact that he's seen as a. Locker room issue or could be a chemistry disruptor that always cap that I thought below a first round pick. But I always that no matter how many of those kind of elements. You pile on guys won't you hear Antonio Brown. Could be bad for third epic. I think a lot of teams who think they're not interested would be like all right? We gotta do it. It's the third round pick for this guy was one of the best ever. So I always think it's within that second round range guys. If you think that was a second in fifth in the beginning of the week. And now, it's a second. Okay. I guess you could say the prices dropping, but major point is he was always going to be for a second round pick. And that hasn't changed Wilkinson max Kellerman. I want to close by saying this. Okay. Whether it's the weed issue that we talked about at the top of the show boy Antonio Brown. The common denominator is that. You have folks who are not it positions of actual power acting like they can do what they wanna do when they wanna do it how they want to do it. And my issue is not with them. It's with the message that they're projecting to a younger generation on. Come up. I think it's sending the wrong message to give folks the indication that you could get away with doing what you wanna do. And they're aren't rules regulations that you have to capitulate to when I'm watching the shop on HBO with LeBron. And again, they're doing a great job with it. What have you? It's very interesting yet annoying to me in this respect. Lebron James who I'm incredibly proud of with all the things that he's doing we have to pay attention to what he did. And how he did it this man established himself as being absolutely phenomenally. Great at what he did educated himself positioned himself and empower themselves to be in a position that he's in the Jay Z's of the world that Jamie, FOX is of the world and others did the same thing. But I think it's foolhardy to perpetuate the message that to everybody that doesn't have this statue cachet dollars, wealth, etc. That you could go out there. And just do what you wanna do today. Thank repercussions. Ramification always not the message you, and I are always on opposite sides of this issue when it comes down to this. I agree with the idea of respect for authority because you must respect the fact that the authority means they do have a certain amount of power over your life. But that does not mean you capitulate to it. And I think that eve and even if the authority can damage you in some way, if you believe you have a higher moral authority or even an obligation to yourself out of self interest to go against that authority to fight against to fight. You fight the power, then I say, you do it while I'm and I'm saying my response in retort to that max Kellerman is this. I'm not encouraging somebody to be pokes and the sell this soul for buck or anything like that. I'm not going there. What I am saying to you. I'll ever is. We don't disagree. I appreciate the position that you're coming from. But I think that you're coming from a position of utopia. You're talking about idealism and the way things should be. I'm a black man that recognizes not just the trials and tribulations. But also, the, you know, the real holes that you're in what you have to what I'm saying to you is what I'm saying to you is it's not going to work for most. That's all of them, Sanford American. Throughout the history of this country. There has been a divide among between the more and less radical when it comes to those ideas. So when you say, you're a black man who saying there should be some kind of element of pragmatism. I appreciate that. And there's a wrestler addition of that. But there is also a rich tradition in this country of black men and women who feel more radicalized by their circumstances. And don't agree with that line historian, new electic of the hippie this country, but as a historian, you know, this there are those who were radical but still played the game alone the way and position and timed their radicalism. They did just go out there gung ho hippie radical. They had a plane how many of these plane. Agreed. Hey, it's Dan Patrick here to tell you about the Dan Patrick school. The sportscasting of teamed up with full sail university to create a sports casting bachelor's degree you work both on and behind the cameras and you build skill. For the future of sports. So you can connect with audiences. No matter where they are or how they're winning in learn more about full sail. Universities Dan, Patrick school to sportscasting by going to full sail dot EDU slash ESPN. Sportscenter right now, I'm thinking of the Collins NBA action, we had a battle to the east top teams books and Pacers. We'll pick this up with three left in the third quarter bucks up by fourteen Janas Kubo slamming at home up by sixteen then under five ago in the fourth onto the coup with that amazing block take a look at that. Again. He'd finished the twenty nine points and rebounds bucks when this one seventeen to ninety eight elsewhere the Lakers currently eleven seed in the Western Conference in six and a half games behind the eighth seed clippers the team is planning to scale back with Brown. James's minutes to close out the season a source close to James will the that the team is looking at their thirty two minute. Limit LeBron missed seventeen consecutive games nursing. You're going strain was back in the lineup. January thirty first and has played in all but one game since then the Brown has been emptying the gas tank making a final push at the playoffs since the all-star break James has been on the floor more than any other. A player in the NBA averaging nearly thirty minutes per game over an Achim stretch. And it's just not this. You're either he's averaging over thirty five minutes per game for his sixteenth straight season for more on James. Here's I take. Can you Lakers are planning to scale back LeBron's minutes until the end of the season? Stephen do you like this the Lakers putting LeBron on a minute restriction? No. But it has nothing to do with the amount of minutes. I have a problem with the Lakers being the one imploding restrictions. I'm interested in seeing what LeBron James wants to do. That's what I want to see you have to understand that Bill Plaski for the Los Angeles Times. It's been a long time columnist in. This town has both of you know, for many many years over two decades to voice of LA as far as I'm concerned. He wrote an incredibly interesting column believe it was just yesterday where he talked about how folks in Los Angeles don't consider LeBron Viet somebody that's interesting to being a part of Lincoln nation. He didn't come out here to be a Laker. He came out here to go Hollywood. And so that's basically, I'm paraphrasing. But that's basically what Bill Plaski is accusing LeBron James of and you do have people in the state. That have indicated that I've been here all week long periodically. I've been here throughout the season. And those are the kind of things that people say believe it or not max is shocking is this may be to both you and will I've actually argued with some of those directors producers courtside and of the fans 'cause you know, the who's who LA shows up to Laker games saying brother chance he did commit to four years. He is a three time champion greatest play in the worldwide, y'all tripping. What the hell Joe have before he got here. The last five years you didn't make the playoffs from nineteen forty eight to two thousand and thirteen when you win Minneapolis. And you transition to LA you missed the playoffs a grand total of five times and over sixty years, and here, you are tripping when this man comes to town and you've missed the playoffs. The last five years they like Stephen eight we don't give a damn we want somebody. We want people who want to be here and want to be part of lake a nation, the fabric of LA, and we don't think that's what he wants. We think he just came in Hollywood. We don't even think winning. Is a priority. This is what they're saying. So if this thing those kind of things about him, I want to see what choices LeBron James himself makes he knows his body better than anybody. He's absolutely phenomenal. If he wanted to take the rest of the year off wouldn't knock him for it because they're not going to the plans he put in his top and the next week years or imported, but I want to see what's the situation. He's interested in making as opposed to magic and the lake is making it for him. Because I want to see what playing particularly in this town with this fan base means to him as opposed to the Lakers. I'd be mad if they didn't put him on a minute restriction. I'm glad to Lakers doing this. Listen, the Lakers are saying we have four years invested in you and we intend to get four years out of you. So K couldn't get it done this year. There's a ninety nine percent chance. We're not gonna make the playoffs. We're not running this dude into the ground. So he's compromised later, even if. There's no catastrophic injury the number of miles. This guy has on his legs. Do people realize there's never been a player close to this. Good given the number of minutes. NBA minute's already played this deep into his career never ever not close to this. Good. But the time not even Kareem Abdul Jabbar. Right. Who's the guy really LeBron's competing? With is the second greatest player history behind Michael Jordan, not even Kareem was this good. Having played this many minutes as debtor put him on a minute restriction you now the Lakers found themselves in this position in the first place. Guys, everyone talks about the Chris Paul trade that was undone by the league. Kobe. Bryant was determined that. The Lakers were not going to miss the playoffs the year, they got Dwight Howard, Steve Nash. And then Steve Nash got hurt. Kobe took over the point Dan, Tony was the coach he wasn't getting along with how trying to use him as a stretch foreign power really couldn't shoot the three. And he wanted them off the bed. This whole soap opera is about a miss the playoffs. Koby staged a mutiny took over the offense. Played them into the playoffs snapped his achilles was never the same. And here was the real turning point in the franchise before Kobe ever got back out on the court. The Lakers extended him when they gave him that contract. And remember he was only never the same again because the achilles snapped. Because he played himself too, many minutes. He'll and then Tony went along with the franchise went along with it since then even when they cleared caps base before LeBron took their money. They couldn't get anyone to take their money. They wound up with Lou I remember who who the Lakers gonna get out of doing after noon drive out there at the time this one or that what all the top free agents, they wound up with Lou Al dang Timofey. Mas gov. Each. John four year deals for like sixteen seventeen million a year. They had to trade the ngelo Russell just to get out of one of those deals those deals killed them. Because those were the only people on earth who would take their money, then LeBron took their money. So Lakers fans come all the way down this dude, major relevant again and the Lakers sitting or restricting his minutes. Everyone calmed down. It's the smart. Stay canoeing, Steven, I'm having trouble with something. You said you said you wanna see how LeBron feels about this minute restriction? You wanna see what LeBron decides to do? Now. I listen to you Stephen eight, and I think we share an opinion on this. Well, LeBron might not be the GM while he might not be the coach while you might not be dictating what goes on. He has massive influence on every decision around him. No matter what townies in. You're telling me, you already don't know how LeBron feels about this minute restriction. You don't think he had influence input could could've even dictated. How many minutes he's going to be playing? How do we not know? Oh, how he already feels. Well, no, I don't know. That's not what I'm trying to intimate what I'm trying to intimate is that this city feels as if they don't know. And so interested in seeing where LeBron James hearts lot, see one of the things about being a great columnist the likes of a Bill Plaski, for example. And people don't realize this about the media, they act like an individual media member is talking for themselves. No, if you're any kind of a columnist, if you're any kind of immediate member, you get the pulse of the people that resonate with you who follow you who read your worth watch on television and radio and things of that nature. You feel the pulse of the city that you represent when I was a columnist Philadelphia. It wasn't about me talking. It was about me marching the streets of Philadelphia, and recognizing the stuff that was reverberating throughout the city and making sure that those voices got hurt got heard rather in the form of eight hundred two nine. Column. That's what you do. So it's not about what Bill Plaski wrote. It's about who built Plaski is disseminating the message for and he's disseminating the message for the city of angels and lay who has questions about whether or not LeBron James heart is in it fair and not think is ridiculous. Because I think I think LeBron is a winner. But the fact that the Matt is he's here in LA. And there are people who have those questions and max to get to your point about Kobe Bryant. Let's be clear max, the tell the truth about this. You only told a partial troop the Timothy MAs Cobb luau. Dang, sure, Kobe and achilles. Sure. But the greatest impediment to the success of the lake is to the allure of the Lakers at that time was Jim Barker and did this. Dysfunction with Jim boss and Jeannie, boss. That's that's right. But part of that was the Kobe extension because they understand the great was the message that was sent when Jim bus was at the helm, and I've dealt with Jim I've always had a good experience with him. So I take no pleasure in saying this. But the message that was sent was that you're not in good hands here. The franchise is lighting run competently with that. And that was part of that was indicated by the fact that Kobe could play himself. Way before Colby. That's all I agree. But there was more and more evidence. Right. Okay. Fine. This is what I want to answer. We'll I want to answer your question directly, right? In so far as wouldn't LeBron weigh in on everything in boxing. You can have a cornerman who's just a yes, man. He doesn't know what he's looking at. And he has a fighter who's just getting destroyed and the kid really has no chance to win anymore. Maybe a one percent chance for an a punchers chance and eat the kids, not a puncher and the and the kid doesn't want to quit because he's got a lot of heart and the corner man has got to say you're done that's different than you got a chance to win the title because you are a puncture even though the odds are against you. You're risking your life. But you look at the corner man say you don't stop this fight in the corner. Man, lets them out the question is what kind of cornerman is Magic Johnson. Do you believe he's the kind of cornerman who will just get overwritten by the fighter when the fighters got no shot to win. I don't I believe that in this case, even though LeBron weighs in magic to type of dude to be like slick. Oh, LeBron four years. We got an you. And you can't win kid. You're sitting down you're taking the loss. This time. We're coming back next year link. Lebron? I know we gotta go laugh that you max only. For one reason. Once again, it's a posture truth. You're absolutely right about that with the trainer. But does it the trainer one to see you want to fight as opposed to you wanting to quit before wrecking that coal? You can say it. Yes. I did say it. Yes. State. What you're saying? Standard point LA wants to see how LeBron feels what I'm saying. He might have already told them. Geico presents unhelpful home improvement how to a slippery bathroom floor can result in expensive hospital bills. So today, I'll show you how to cushion a serious fall by filling your bathroom with thousands of plastic balls. Just nail a piece of plywood across the doorway and dump in two thousand multicolored plastic balls, you could try to protect yourself with a bathroom full of plastic balls or you could get liability coverage through the Geico insurance agency. Visit Geico dot com and see how affordable renter's insurance can be. Everyone. This is sportscenter right now. I'm on the Collins in case, you missed tempers flared in Portland last night, Damian Lillard doing everything possible to get the win dropping a season high fifty one points, but it wasn't enough. Let's take you to the action. A Westbrook with the co Bush NASCAR Eminem's jackets Thailand, we'll pick this one up in the second quarter thunder down by one here. West book throws a wild pass use of nerve kitsch saves it. But then when you bet on defense Rusnak's donor Pige Westwood we given a flagrant foul venture the fourth Nurik to spell on the put back card, George and Nurkic get into it. Take a look at this nerve kitsch headbutting, George he received his second technical foul, and then being the judge in and then Westbrook making layup finished with thirty seven points thunder. Go onto win one twenty nine to one Twenty-one here's Russ after the game. And all this. To make big plays. Four stops in a row. Listen big buckets. That's part of the game interact with the fans good back, regardless of what happens to compete at a high. Compete at a high Nova every night go to gain hoping a game. Obviously, they didn't because they're going home. But no more. I'm always half want Georgia game. Now, let's get you back to the first take. Crazy game in Portland last night. But a big overtime win for the thunder. Russell westbrook. Led the way with thirty seven points. Paul George Shipton thirty two he hit only seven of twenty three shots. So looking at Paul Georgia's performance, Stephen A, who's the key to the thunder and playoff success? I think as Paul George because Russell Westbrook is Russell Westbrook. Some games he's going to shoot. Well, some games. He's not. But the effort is going to always be one thousand percent. He's going to be incredibly aggressive. He's going to get to the basket. He's going to make things happen in some other way. He is what he is. But with just him they go home in the first round Paul George's to Reza while we were talking about Oklahoma City at one point being the greatest threat to the Golden State Warriors, Paul George is the reason why the Golden State Warriors at least at one point in time a few weeks ago considered though Goma city thunder more of a threat than anybody in the Western Conference, including Houston, Paul George before he went down and mystery games. You know with absolutely playing like a league in the peak averaging about twenty eight shooting mid forties from the field. Nearly forty percent from three point range being an absolute stud and superstar in this league. Over the last two games. What is your shot like fifteen forty eight from the fields that he's been back like five of twenty three from three point range. He's averaging about twenty seven and a half. But nevertheless, the shooting percentage is not that impressive. That's not Paul George. It won't last. And the only reason we're talking about the Oklahoma City thunder being the threat in the Western Conference that they are is Paul George everything else to roller coaster that Oklahoma City is with Russell Westbrook. That has always been the case. But Paul George is the difference maker. And I think he's the key to this success. We have the same analysis completely different conclusions. Look, the most important ingredient in a championship team is still dominant two-way wing, right? Look at who wins the championship. It was K D K D LeBron before that you say, well, the warriors didn't have K D, nobody who won MVP of the finals Igwe Dala before that Spurs Kawai before that LeBron and Wade dominant to way wings are really the way to go. But once you have that guy, you know, Paul George whether he hits the shot or doesn't it the shot? He is going to be playing that way on both sides of the floor. He's a problem on offense. He can do he can play without the ball. He doesn't. He doesn't slow down the offense or anything like that. It can get out in transition. He can play defense. He can do all those things and you have them now. Good for them, just as they once had K D, the key to the success of the teams Westbrook. You know, I've been saying if Westbrook and just hit those shots it is shot selection. Sometimes he's reckless with it. And if he can hit those shots, he's shooting really poorly this year from three if he was just shooting what he did a couple years ago. Thirty four percent. I might take them the win the whole thing. But he's not. So what else can he do? I really think with Westbrook comes down to this. This is why it's my favorite player. He never cheats the fans or his teammates at all. He goes hundred percent all the time. I love them. But because of that I think he has a tendency when the going gets tough to not trust his teammates enough. And it's not even that he's looking down at them or anything. He just seems to meet a feel that responsibility of having to shoulder the load shoulder more of it more of it more of it and in so doing a lot of times the team gets less effective as the game goes on. I think Westbrook is the key. I think he's got a loosen up the reigns. A little bit. And if he can do that and hit some of those shots sky's the limit for the Oklahoma City, thunder and the keys the key. You know, what's fascinating. You're right. Max YouTube Stephen and max you're looking at this the exact same way in coming at it with different conclusions. Essentially, what you're asking is who is the one you. Can count on who is the constant. Right. Who's going to be here? While the other guy the difference maker goes like this. I will. But I actually think I agree with you in the end. I think we know what? Okay. See is with Russ. He'll thank. But we know where he takes them. It's Paul George that makes the difference. Max you're seeing George as the granted as the raving and Russ as the variable the reason for that is Paul George not the primary ball handler. Russell Westbrook is. So he really is the one making decisions about the offense. But you know, what I call the ultimate complementary piece. So even Steven when you put him on your all time team that you wanted to function as a team, and I would say, hey, Larry Bird or someone like that. But understand the reason for K D. He does everything Katie does everything, but he's a complementary piece. It's not a knock against them. It's the nature of his mic. The right basketball play mentality. Paul George is largely the same thing. Russell Westbrook is the season maker in this NBA that kind of to guard and a one guards body who's who's the do everything, man. And making it go that guy Steph curry on the warriors is the key to that team, Damian Lillard, obviously in Portland, and Russell Westbrook and okay, see because he's the decision maker the ball in his hands. He's the one who it's incumbent upon when the going gets tough when it gets thick out there for him to not try to pull even harder, but to relax a little bit. And I think if he can do that. And that's the key to the thunder. The sky is the limit was this what I'm saying us this where I have a problem with your position on this subject is because many many times over the course of two and a half years together, you've talked about this is who Russell Westbrook is. It's not going to change. So if we say that's who he is. And that's who he's proven himself to be a superstar woulda real one at best. The bottom line is this. We know who he is. And what he's going to be. So what is the element? The ingredients. That's going to elevate the Oklahoma City thunder to another level, you have young athletes who are greyhounds thoroughbreds rather there. Run up and down the court. They can finish at the basket. Some of them guys like Ferguson kit hip perimeter shots. Stephen Adams is one of the toughest big men in the game basketball. But the key to this success why they were thriving so much was the greatness being put on display by Paul George so much. So that we've literally said hair and questioned why Magic Johnson, and rob Pelinka didn't appear to make of a strident effort in getting him to LA. That's the kind of impact he has realities. That's why I say he's the key. I understand but saying that Westbrook can't change his stripes. I agree with that. I'm talking about on the margins. You know, we saw LeBron James who is you know, I say MJ and magic had a baby it was LeBron James, right? And he just passed nj in career scoring, but it's not because he's primarily a scorer. It's because he's so greedy can't help himself. He's going to score. Lebron James soul is that of a point guard. Really? I mean, LeBron is the best thing. He does is. Passable and he had to learn what he got to Miami. No, I know Wade's there. And there's an issue who's gonna take the lashawn that stuff. You got to be the due to took him a while to to get there, you lament the fact that he had to learn that over the course of his career, David price. We had on the show yesterday. Choked under pressure choked under pressure until he didn't. And what I'm saying about Westbrook is not suddenly waking up as another guy. But maybe he has learned on the margin to trust his teaming of truth that right there what you just said start right there. Russell Westbrook to win. Rupaul George was rolling this year. I've never seen. Russell Westbrook relent or defer to someone more even Kevin Durant. Basically gave Paul George the ball and said, hey, take us there. And that's what Paul Georgia's doing because he loves Paul, George the Westbrook. This year, the hiring of Westbrook Caceres. He's having is worst shooting ear and playing his best overall game in many respects in other otherwise.

LeBron James Stephen Russell westbrook National Football League David Irving Lakers Antonio Brown LA Rupaul George Steven A. NFL cannabis marijuana Cannabis NBA Max Kellerman Portland football max Cullen Packers
Buried by the Wall Street Crash

Cautionary Tales

37:20 min | 8 months ago

Buried by the Wall Street Crash

"As the night draws in and the fire blazes on the half we warn the children by telling them stories. Cinderella teaches them. That if you want to leave the party early leave your phone number rather than a piece of designer footwear. But my stories for the education of the grown-ups stories all true. Tim Harford Gabar close. And listen to my cautionary tales Late One evening on the twentieth of December nineteen fifty four. A small group of people sat together in a living room in oak park a suburb of Chicago. Waiting for the end of the world they were led by a woman named Dorothy Martin. Who's a conduit for messages from aliens? Will God or both the messages were alarming at midnight. The aliens would land a flying saucer in the backyard and convey the true believers to the safety of a planet named Clarion then that door a cataclysmic flood would destroy much of the world now at five minutes to midnight. The believers were waiting. Some were disheveled. Since the aliens had demanded they remove all metal from their clothing. Brock lips bottoms even trousers. It had been hastily. Slashed away by fumbling hands wielding scissors raises some of the group with air out of mere curiosity. Others had sacrificed almost everything for this moment that quit their jobs given away their possessions and said farewell to their families. But what distinguishes this particular apocalyptic cult from all the others is that a small team of social scientists led by the world renowned psychologist. Leon festinger had managed to infiltrate it. They were there to witness what happened at midnight and in particular how the group reacted to the appearance or possibly the non appearance of the aliens gathered around. And I'll tell you another for Sri Times I'll tell you all about what happened with Leon. Festinger Dorothy Martin and the aliens in due course but for a moment. Let's leave them there in Chicago anxiously waiting for the end of days because I have another story to tell you then. It's not a story about crazy cult members but about two economists. Indeed two of the most celebrated economists who ever lived and what these economists have to do with a ufo cult nineteen fifties Chicago. It's very simple just like Dorothy mountain. They tried to see into the future and trying to see into the future. It's a dangerous business. One of the economists. I won't tell you about is the great British polymath. John May Not Canes. You may have heard of him. He's a colossal figure in economics. Overturning the ideas that had gone before him and then reshaping the post war economic system. Many economists still hold themselves Keynesians. Like him or hate him in economics. You can't get much bigger than John Maynard. Keynes except that in his day you could. When canes I strode the world stage he did so in the shadow of another man in nineteen twenty four. The Wall Street Journal tried to describe John Maynard. Keynes this up and coming economist. They reached for comparison that everyone in America would've known Keynes said. The Journal was England's serving Fisher and Irving Fisher was the most famous economist on the planet. But having Fisher wasn't just more famous than Keynes he was brilliant as warm Nobel Prize Winner. Put IT. Fuzhou was anywhere from decades. Dude Asians hit of his time. Some would say he was the greatest economist who ever lived. But if you're thinking I don't hear much about Irving Fisher these days. You're right. He's not the household name. He was one hundred years ago. If you're wondering why. His reputation faded while Keynes's lived on. That is what our cautionary tale is all about. Irving Fisher and John Maynard Keynes. We're very different men in some important ways but they also had a great deal in common. Both were stars at their universities canes at Cambridge in England Fisher at Yale they will both physically impressive. Canes was thin and very tall with piercing eyes. Fisher had the broad chest of a competitive rower. They were both skilled writers charismatic speakers to after witnessing canes giving a speech the Canadian diplomat Douglas Lapan was moved to write. I am spellbound. This is the most beautiful creature I have ever listened to does. He belong to our species or is he from some other order and Fisher and canes also both active investors. They weren't just ivory tower economists but men who believed that their mastery of economics would enable them to make profitable investments that is where the interest in forecasting came in an academic economist might be contents to describe and explain the economy's past but to make money in canes would have to catch a glimpse of the economy's future. Let's meet the Young Irving Fisher. How much there is I want to do. I always feel that I haven't time to accomplish what I wish I want to read much. I want to write a great deal. I want to make money. He's writing from Yale to an old school friend. Money was important Fisher. His father had died of tuberculosis the very week that irving had arrived at Yale. The young man needed to scramble for funds throughout his studies. He understood what it wants to struggle financially. While surrounded by wealth at the age of Twenty Six however Fisher found himself with a small fortune at his disposal. He'd married a childhood playmate. Margaret has it he was the daughter of a wealthy industrialist irving and Margaret's wedding was sumptuous enough to be covered by the New York Times with two thousand invited guests three ministers and extravagant lunch and a wedding cake weighing sixty pounds. They commenced a fourteen month European and turned to a brand new mansion in new haven. It had been built in their absence. As a wedding. Present from Margaret's father was furnished with a library. A music room and spacious offices. If marrying your childhood sweetheart sounds a little too wholesome. I'm just getting started. There are three things you need to know about everything fisher. The first is that he was a health fanatic. He abstained from alcohol. Tobacco meat tea coffee and chocolate one. Dinner guest enjoyed his hospitality. While noting his quirkiness I right through my succession of delicious courses. He dined on a vegetable and a raw egg. He founded the life Extension Institute and persuaded. William Taft who just stepped down as president to be its chairman in one thousand nine hundred fifteen. When he was nearly fifty years old he published a book titled How to Live. How to live? Now that some real ambition. It was a huge bestseller freakonomics of its day and from a modern perspective. It's hilarious. I advocate a son bath commonsense must dictate its intensity and duration. It is important to practice thorough massification chewing to the point of natural involuntary swallowing. He even adds a discussion of the correct angle between the feet. While walking about seven or eight degrees of towing in each foot and there's a short section on eugenics which really hasn't aged well but while it's easy to laugh how to live is in many ways as far ahead of its time as fishes economic analysis describing exercises preaching mindfulness and at a time when the majority of doctors were smokers correctly warning that tobacco causes cancer. The second thing you need to know about irving was that he believed in the power of rational quantified analysis in the modern. Study of scientific clothing. There is a new unit. The CLO- This is a technical unit for measuring warming. Power of clothing. There's also the money that's the third thing you need to know. Having Fisher was rich and not just because of his wife's inheritance making money was a matter of pride for Fisher there. Were the book royalties from how to. Live. There were his inventions most notably a forerunner of the ROLODEX. Away of organizing business cards. He sold that invention to a stationary company for six hundred sixty thousand dollars in cash. Many millions of dollars in today's terms Fisher turned his academic research into a major business. Operation called the Index Number Institute. It sold data forecasts and analysis as syndicated package to newspapers across the United States. He called it. Irving Fisher's business page with such a platform Fisher was able to evangelize about his approach to investment which broadly speaking was to bet on American growth by buying shares in the new industrial corporations using borrowed money. Such burrowing is called leverage since it magnifies both profits and losses but during the nineteen twenties stock market. Investors had few losses to worry about share. Prices were soaring Fisher wrote to his old childhood friend to inform him that he's I'm Bishen had been fulfilled. We are all making a lot of money in the summer of Nineteen Twenty Nine Irving Fisher was a bestselling author inventor data. Pioneer friend of presence entrepreneur health campaigner syndicated columnist and the greatest academic economists of his generation. And in that summer of one thousand nine hundred ninety nine a millionaire. Many Times over Irving Fisher was able to boast to his son that a renovation of the family mansion had been paid for not by the hazard family money but by Irving Fisher himself that achievement matter to him. Fisher's own father hadn't lived to see his seventeen year. Old Boy grow into one of the most respected figures of the age as irving and his son watched a mansion reshaped before them he could perhaps be forgiven pride. This episode is brought to you by the new podcast go and see hosted by our very own Malcolm Dodwell produced by the team behind revisionist history go and seek is a six part series focused on Alexis philosophy of Ganci again butson which means teeth yourself an idea that stem list from the belief that if you experience something yourself you have a better understanding people how to create something Ford in a series. Lexus invites Malcolm to Japan. Discover that unconventional thinking and processes firsthand find out. How a Japanese tea ceremony influenced the engineering of a car window. How the sound of an engine is like a musical composition elicit certain emotions how Understanding Samurai warriors is led to a suspension innovation? Malcolm loans that no detail is left behind and that a car company and learn more about my studying people go inside lexuses headquarters in Japan ride along on a top secret test track with a master driver. Sit in the expertly designed seat that actually lowest to welcome you into the vehicle. Follow Malcolm on his journey. Starting March the fifth. Have you liked to listen? Visit LEXUS DOT com slash curiosity more stories. Like these John Maynard. Keynes was the ultimate insider as a schoolboy. He was educated at Eton College. Just like Britain's first prime minister and nineteen of since like his father. He became a senior academic. A fellow of King's College. The most spectacular of all Cambridge colleges his job during the first world. War was managing both debt and currency on behalf of the British Empire. He'd barely turned thirty. He knew everyone he whispered. In the ear of prime ministers he had the inside track on whatever was going on in the British economy. May Not Bank of England here just wanted to let you know that interest rates will be rising Tamara Champ but this child of the British establishment was a very different person to his American rival. Irving Fisher. He loved fine wines enrich food. He gambled monte-carlo is sex. Life was more like a nineteen seventies pop star in nineteen hundreds economist bisexual. Poly-amorous eventually settling down. Not with his childhood sweetheart but with Russian Ballerina. One of Keynes's ex-boyfriends was the best man at their wedding. And Canes was adventurous in other ways to in one thousand nine hundred eighty nine for example as the first World War was raging and the German army was camped outside Paris canes caught wind of the fact that in Paris the Great French impressionist artist at Garda Guy was about to auction his vast collection of pieces by franz his greatest nineteenth century painters and so- canes embarked on an Insane Adventure. I he spoke to the Chancellor of the Exchequer the UK's senior Treasury minister asking for a phone for purchasing art twenty thousand pounds. That's millions in. Today's money may not the first occasion that I've ever known you in favor of any expenditure. John won't so ever remember. The British Treasury was four years into fighting the most devastating war the planet yet seen the Canes New House against his way my picture coup was a whirlwind affair carried out in a day and a half before anyone had time to reflect on bought. They were doing. I think the chance was very much amused at my wanting to buy pictures. And eventually let me have my way as a sort of a joke. Some joke escorted by destroyers and a silver ship watching overhead canes crossed the channel firms with the director of London's National Gallery who shaved off his moustache so that nobody recognized him and just as dagoes auction begins the German artillery starts up some people panic and hurry out Canes Pounces Buying Twenty seven pieces at rock bottom prices for the National Gallery. Andy buys a few for himself. Including Suzanne which these days would be regarded as a better by than anything the National Gallery director chose it costs canes just three hundred seventy pounds then flee back to the English Channel and Cross home with a convoy of hospital ships exhausted after his nonstop adventure canes calls in on some friends. I've got in my suitcase. It was too heavy to carry. So I've left it in the ditch behind the gate. What Irving Fisher would have made it at all? I do not know yet like Fisher. Keynes was also pursuing an investment career. It wasn't just an art. He set up what some historians described as the first hedge fund to speculate on currency movements. He raised money from rich friends. And from his own father to whom he made the not entirely reassuring comment when all those this high stakes. Gambling amuses me. Initially canes made money fast but then a brief spasm in the currency markets wiped out his phoned in nineteen twenty awkward but he went back taste investors including his own father and asked them to trust him with more of that money. I am not in a position to risk any capital myself. Having quite exhausted my resources remember. This is John Maynard. Keynes the man who swayed a wartime government to speculate in a Parisian auto auction. The man a Canadian diplomat mistook for an angel. I anticipate very substantial profits with very good probability if you are prepared to stand the racket for a couple of months of course. They gave him the money he wanted. Canes was back in profit by nineteen twenty two so having made a small fortune lost it and made it again. Canes turned to the vast investments of his own college king's Cambridge Canes persuaded his fellow academics to let him adopt a radical making strategy. He would forecast booms and recessions and move in and out of different economic sectors accordingly. Such an approach makes sense. Only if you actually can forecast recessions. But Canes was the leading economists in the country and a man who remember would get friendly phone calls from the Bank of England if anyone could see into the future of the British economy it was John Maynard. Keynes by late nine thousand nine hundred thousand nine both Irving Fisher and John Maynard. Keynes were rich famous respected and standing on the brink of a financial precipice. The Cataclysmic Wall Street crash followed by the Great Depression. The worst peacetime economic calamity to befall the Western world on the two greatest economists of the Age Fishe and Canes. Both of them failed to see it coming. Experts don't have stellar reputation for forecasting in one eighty-seven the young canadian-born psychologist named Philip. Tedtalk became curious about the entire prognostication racket. Tet Lock had been interviewing Cold War experts and he soon found himself frustrated by their wildly different predictions their refusal to change their minds when they were wrong and the endless excuses for their forecasting failures. Tech's response was patient. Painstaking and quietly brilliant. He began to collect forecasts from almost three hundred. Experts eventually accumulating twenty seven thousand five hundred predictions. He focused on politics and geopolitics throwing in a few questions from areas such as economics. Ted Talk sought clearly defined questions enabling him with the benefit of hindsight to pronounce each forecast right or wrong. Then Ted lock simply waited while the results rolled in eighteen years Ted lock published his conclusions in two thousand and five. In a subtle and scholarly book expert political judgment found that his experts were terrible forecasters both in the simple sense that what they predicted often didn't happen. And in the D percents that the experts had little idea of when they should be confident and when they should admit that they didn't have a clue. Expert forecasts were barely more accurate than chimpanzees throwing darts most people hearing about Ted talks research simply conclude that either the world is too complex to forecast or the experts are too stupid to forecast it or both on April Fools Day in twenty thirteen full days. I received an email from Philip deadlock inviting me to join what he described as a major new research program it was funded by the. Us intelligence services. This program continued and expanded. Tet Locks look study in the form of a full costing tournament. You would simply log onto a website. Give your best judgement about matters. You may be following anyway and that judgment if and when you feel it should be when time passes and forecasts are judged you could compare your results with those of others. More than twenty thousand people signed up some professionals and some amateurs and his colleagues ran experiments on this army of volunteers giving them different kinds of training or assembling them into teams to see if that helped. I didn't join in a told myself I was too busy. I suppose I was chickening out too but the fundamental reason that I didn't participate was because Ted talks work had already persuaded me that the forecasting task was impossible. But it wasn't. This vast new tournament identified a select group of people whose forecasts while by no means perfect. Were vastly better than the dog. Throwing CHIMP STANDARD. Ten o'clock with an uncharacteristic touch of hyperbole called them super forecasters so what makes a super forecaster the super forecasters a what psychologists call actively open minded thinkers people who didn't cling to tightly to a single approach who were comfortable abandoning an old view in the light of fresh evidence so new arguments and who embraced disagreements with others as an opportunity to learn the secret of super forecasting. It's a willingness to change your mind. Philip Tet locks work on super forecasting has rightly attracted a huge amount of attention. But I think there's a message in that work that's often overlooked a willingness to change. Your mind doesn't just help. You make better forecasts it. Helps you cope with failed predictions to? Let's return to John Maynard. Keynes and Irving Fisher. Both of them remember had persuaded themselves that their expertise in economics should lead to investment success. Both of them were wrong. The stock market crash of nineteen thousand. Nine court each of them by surprise both lost a lot of money yet. Here's a curious fact. Despite his failure canes died a millionaire and perhaps the most celebrated economist in the World Fisher made basically the same mistake yet. It ruined both his finances and his reputation why the difference in their fortunes in a way. The answer is ridiculously simple. Canes changed his mind and changed his Investment Strategy Fisher changed neither but that only raises a deeper question. Why did Keynes Change while Fisher? Didn't canes had lost one fortune in nineteen twenty and survived the experience by nineteen twenty nine before the crash he was again pondering his shortcomings his investment strategy based on the assumption that he could predict the ups and downs of the business. Cycle wasn't working out. He started thinking about how to change his approach. Canes lost more than eighty percent of his net worth in twenty nine but even afterwards he was still rich in short he had plenty of evidence. That had made a mistake. He had experience of making mistakes in the past bouncing back and he was still comfortably off. Why not change by the Early Nineteen Thirties? Cames had abandoned business cycle forecasting entirely the greatest economist in the world had decided he just couldn't do it well enough to make money as time goes on. I get more and more convinced that the right method investment to put fairly large sums enterprises which one things one knows something about and in the management of which one thoroughly believes. Forget what the economy's doing just fine. Great companies and invest for the long term and if fat approach sounds familiar. It's most famously associated with Warren Buffett. The world's richest investor that a man who loves to quote John Maynard Keynes. Keynes is rightly viewed today as a successful investor. At King's college he recovered from the poor performance of the early years he secured high returns with modest risks outperforming the stock market as a whole many times over. It's an impressive reward for being able to change your mind. Having Fisher was in a very different situation Irving Fisher's business page had graced newspapers across the country when things turned Sour Fisher was escape goat in front of the entire United States. The New York Times reported that the bubble had been blamed on. Us Treasury Secretary Mellon former president. Coolidge and Professor Irving Fisher of Yale and Professor Irving Fisher of Yale was in deep financial. Trouble the fact that his investments were made using leverage meant that both gains and losses were magnified what had seemed like brilliance before the crash was catastrophic. Afterwards Fisher was staring in the face of bankruptcy the loss of his house his businesses everything for example one of fishes major investments was in the stationery company Remington rand. It was fifty eight dollars a share before the crash dropping to twenty eight dollars within a few months at that point Fisher borrowed more money to invest but the share price kept falling all the way to one dollar you can imagine his desperation but surely being in such a tight spot would have made Fisher more likely to adapt his strategy. Not necessarily a received another message. Everyone gets your overcoats and stand by okay. Okay Okay. Everyone sit quietly in the living room. We shall act as if this were just an ordinary gathering of friends. Remember Dorothy Maltin an had. Ufo called. They've persuaded themselves that. The world is about to be flooded and they will be saved at midnight. I aliens delivering them safely to Planet Clarion and remember too that the psychologist. Leon festinger has infiltrated the Colt. His researchers were there that night to observe what happened. Festinger had a striking prediction. That when the aliens didn't appear many cultists wouldn't be discouraged by the clear failure of Mrs Martens Prophecy or feel angry and betrayed. Instead they would redouble the efforts to believe another reporter. No doubt just hang up. Preparations cannot be interrupted. We'll call them later. If we have anything for hasn't the clock has made national starts with a couple of minutes back. Caught is look at the clock. I set myself this afternoon and it's not midnight yet one minute to midnight midnight. The aliens did not appear. Nobody said a word. One of the more casual cult members who've expressed skepticism before picked up his coat and hat and walked out no comment. We have nothing to tell you. People tried to make sense of what was happening or rather not happening. The theories grew ever wilder. People were confused exhausted. Leon festinger observers tried to ask why the saucer hadn't come the group didn't want to talk about it and then at four o'clock in the morning Dorothy. Martin put her face in her hands and began to weep one fasting researchers stepped outside for some air and discussed the situation the leading cult member. I've had a long way to go I've given up just about everything cut everyti- burned every bridge. Turn my back on the world. I CAN'T AFFORD TO DOUBT I. I have to believe they went back inside but four forty five. Am Dorothy Maltin hand. Shaking picked up a pencil and began to ride it was. She said a new message. Because of the faith shown by that small group of people F- had been spared destruction. A higher power would save not only the small Colt but the entire human race At this the cultists acquired new fervor going out to greet the dawn and tell people the good news. They suddenly became evangelists issuing statements to the press. Ravin batting them away. Dorothy is this the first time you've called the newspaper yourself? Oh yes. This is the first time I've ever called them. I've never had anything to tell them before. But how I feel it's urgent. We should call the Associated Press and the United Press. This thing is pretty important. It's a very big thing bigger than just one newspaper. I don't think the Creator would want this to be an exclusive story. Any not definitely not right correct. It's it's got to be for everybody for everybody correct. Yes festinger had been right. His view that the cultists would redouble efforts to believe in. The face of failure was based on a theory. He called cognitive dissonance. Cognitive dissonance predicts that people will start to squirm when they hold contradictory thoughts. Such as it's worth quitting my job in order to be collected by aliens and the aliens did not show up. People often deny the obvious in order to reduce the discomfort and the more suffering people of put themselves through on behalf of a belief. The more likely they are to cling onto it otherwise. Olot suffering would seem ridiculous. Would it not fasting? Gas Theory applies perfectly to poor Irving Fisher in the nineteen thirties. He believed himself to be a man of logic and reason and yet he was deeply in debt the most famous financial basket case in the country in fact if people today not just one thing about Irving Fisher. It's this two weeks before the Wall Street crash began he was quoted by The New York Times. Stocks have reached what looks like a permanently high plateau. How'd you back away from that? Fisher went deeper. And deeper in debt to the tax man and to his brokers towards the end of his life he was a marginalized figure a widower an easy target for scam artists and their get rich quick schemes. Because he was always on the lookout for a way to revive his fortune he never did. Although canes had much in common with Fisher was a different kind of character recall canes his common to his father this high stakes. Gambling amuses me. The monte-carlo Gambler knew all along but wall investing was a fascinating game. It was a game nonetheless and one shouldn't take an unlucky throw of the dice too much to heart. When his investments flopped he tried something else Fisher and canes died within a few months of each other not long after the end of the Second World War Fisher had become irrelevant. Canes was the most influential economist on the planet fresh from shaping the world the IMF and the entire global financial system looking back canes reflected. My only regret is that I have not drunk more champagne in my life. But he's remembered far more for words that he probably never said nevertheless live by them when my information changes. I ultimate conclusions. What do you do sir? If only had taught that lesson to Irving Fisher. You've been listening to cautionary tales if you'd like to find out more about the ideas in this episode including links to our sources the show notes on my website. Tim Harford Dot Com cautionary tales written and presented by me. Tim Harford our producers are Ryan Deli and Marilyn rust the sound designer and mixer was Pasqua wise who also composed the amazing music. Starring in this season are Allen. Coming Archie pange rb Toby Stevens and Russell tovy alongside Enzo Chilean at Gahan Melanie Gutteridge Messiah Monroe and Rufus. Right and introducing Malcolm Bradwell. Thanks to the team at Pushkin Industries. Julia Barton had a fain meal. Lebel Kalemie Jacob Weisberg and of course the mighty Malcolm Dodwell. Thanks to my colleagues at the Financial Times

Professor Irving Fisher John Maynard Canes Leon festinger Irving Fisher United States Dorothy Martin England Fisher John Maynard Cambridge John The New York Times Keynes Canes New House Dorothy mountain Philip Tet Cambridge Canes Ted Talk Bank of England
Buried by the Wall Street Crash

Cautionary Tales

39:32 min | 8 months ago

Buried by the Wall Street Crash

"As the night draws in and the fire blazes on the half. We warn the children children by telling them stories. Cinderella teaches them. That if you want to leave the party early leave your phone number rather than a piece of designer footwear. But my stories for the education of the grown-ups stories all true Tim offered close. And listen to my cautionary tales Late One evening on the twentieth of December nineteen fifty four. A small group for people sat together in a living room in oak park a suburb of Chicago. Waiting for the end of the world they were led by a woman named aimed. Dorothy Martin who was a conduit for messages from Aliens Will God or both the messages were alarming. Lami at midnight the aliens would land a flying saucer in the backyard and convey the true believers to the safety of a planet named and then that door a cataclysmic flood would destroy much of the world now now at five minutes to midnight. The believers were waiting. Some were disheveled. Since the aliens had demanded they remove all metal from their clothing. Brock lips bottoms even trousers. It had been hastily slashed away by fumbling hands wielding scissors raises some of the group with air out of curiosity others had sacrificed almost everything for this moment that quit their jobs given away their possessions and said farewell to their families. But what distinguishes this particular apocalyptic cult from all the others is that a small team of social scientists. It's led by the world renowned psychologist. Leon festinger had managed to infiltrate it. They were there to witness Nisa. What happened at midnight and in particular? How the group reacted to the appearance or possibly the non on appearance of the aliens gathered around? And I'll tell you another for Sri Times and and I'll tell you all about what happened with Leon. Festinger Dorothy Martin and the aliens in due you course but for a moment. Let's leave them there in Chicago anxiously waiting for the end of days. Because I have another story to tell you you then. It's not a story about crazy cult members but about two economists. Indeed two of the most celebrated economists who who ever lived and what these economists have to do with a UFO cult nineteen fifties Chicago. It's very simple just like Dorothy mountain. What'd they tried to see into the future and trying to see into the future? It's a dangerous business. One of the economists. I won't tell you about Tis the great British polymath. John may not canes you may have heard of him. He's a colossal figure in economics. Overturning the ideas that had gone before him. And then in re-shaping the post war economic system. Many economists still hold themselves Keynesians. Like him or hate him in economics. You can't get get much bigger than John Maynard. Keynes except that in his day you could. When canes I strode the world stage he did so in the shadow of another man in nineteen twenty four? The Wall Street Journal tried to describe John Maynard. Keynes this this up and coming economist. They reached for comparison that everyone in America would've known Keynes said the Journal was England's serving Fisher and Irving Fisher was the most famous economist on the planet but having Fisher wasn't just more famous than canes he was brilliant has warned Nobel Prize winner put it Fuzhou was anywhere from decades. Dude Asians hit of his time. Nine some would say he was the greatest economist who ever lived. But if you're thinking I don't hear much about Irving Fisher these days. You're right. He's not the household name. He was one hundred years ago. If you're wondering why. His reputation faded while Keynes's lived on. That is what our cautionary tale is all about Irving Fisher and John Maynard Keynes. We're very different men in some important ways but they also had a great deal in common. Both were stars at their universities canes at Cambridge in England Fisher at Yale they were both physically impressive. Canes was thin and very tall with piercing eyes Fisher had the broad chest of a competitive rower. They were both skilled writers charismatic speakers to after witnessing canes giving a speech the Canadian diplomat Douglas Lapan was moved to write. I am spellbound. This is the most beautiful creature I have ever listened to does. He belong to our species or is he from some other order and Fisher and canes also both active investors. They weren't just ivory tower economists but men who believed that their mastery of economics comics would enable them to make profitable investments that is where the interest in forecasting came in an academic economist might be contents. It's to describe and explain the economy's past but to make money Fisher in canes would have to catch a glimpse of the economy's future. Let's meet the Young Young Irving Fisher. How much there is I want to do? I always feel that. I haven't time to accomplish what I wish. I want to read much which I want to write a great deal. I want to make money. He's writing from Yale to an old school friend. Money was important important Fisher. His father had died of tuberculosis the very week that had arrived at Yale. The young man needed to scramble for funds throughout his studies. He understood what it wants to struggle financially. While surrounded by wealth at the age of Twenty Six however Fisher found himself with a small fortune at his disposal. He'd married a childhood playmate Margaret Hazzard. who was the daughter of a wealthy industrialist irving and Margaret's wedding was sumptuous enough to be covered by the New York Times with two thousand invited guests three ministers and extravagant lunch and a wedding cake weighing sixty pounds? They commenced a fourteen month European honeymoon and returned to a brand new mansion in new. You haven it had been built in their absence. As a wedding present from Margaret's father was furnished with a library a music room and spacious offices If marrying your childhood sweetheart sounds a little too wholesome. I'm just getting started. There are three things as you need to know about Irving Fisher. The first is that he was a health fanatic. He abstained from alcohol. Tobacco meat tea coffee and chocolate one. Dinner guest enjoyed his hospitality while noting his quirkiness well I eight right through my succession of delicious courses. He he dined on a vegetable and a raw egg. He founded the life Extension Institute and persuaded. William Taft who just just stepped down as president to be its chairman in one thousand nine hundred fifteen. When he was nearly fifty years old he published a book titled How to Live How to live? Now that some real ambition it was a huge bestseller freakonomics of its day and from a modern perspective. It's hilarious Larry's. I advocate a son bath commonsense must dictate its intensity and duration. It is important to practice thorough massification chewing going to the point of natural involuntary swallowing. He even adds a discussion of the correct angle between the feet while walking about seven or eight degrees of out towing in each foot and there's a short section on eugenics which really hasn't aged well but while it's easy to laugh how to live if is in many ways as far ahead of its time as fishes economic analysis describing exercises preaching mindfulness and at a time when the majority of doctors says with smokers correctly warning that tobacco causes cancer. The second thing you need to know about irving was that he believed in the power of rational commodified analysis in the modern study of scientific clothing. There is a new unit. The CLO- This is a technical unit for measuring warming. Power of clothing. There's also the money that's the third thing you need to know. Having Fisher was rich and not just because of his wife's wife's inheritance making money was a matter of pride for Fisher there. Were the book royalties from how to live. There were his inventions most notably a forerunner runner of the ROLODEX. Away of organizing business cards. He sold that invention to a stationary company for six hundred sixty thousand dollars in cash in many millions of dollars in today's terms Fisher turned his academic research into a major business. Operation called the Index Number Institute. It sold data forecasts and analysis as syndicated package to newspapers across the United States. He called it Irving Fisher's business page with such a platform Fisher was able to evangelize about his approach to investment which broadly speaking was to bet on American growth by buying shares in the new new industrial corporations using borrowed money. Such burrowing is called leverage since it magnifies both profits and losses but during the nineteen twenties stock market investors had few losses to worry about share. Prices were soaring Fisher wrote to his old childhood friend to inform him that he's I'm Bishen had been fulfilled. We are all making a lot of money in the summer of Nineteen Twenty Nine Irving Fisher was a bestselling author inventor data. Pioneer friend of presence entrepreneur health campaigner syndicated columnist calmest and the greatest academic economists of his generation and in that summer of one thousand nine hundred ninety nine a millionaire. Many Times over Irving having Fisher was able to boast to his son that a renovation of the family mansion had been paid for not by the hazard family money but by Irving ooh Fisher himself that achievement. Matter to him Fisher's own father hadn't lived to see his seventeen year old boy grow into one of the most respected figures of the age as irving and his son watched a mansion reshaped before them he could perhaps apps be forgiven his pride and now a word from our sponsor. Let's talk about about transfer wise. The one stop shop for sending spending and receiving money internationally picture it. 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When you like that's foreign exchange freedom transfer always has over six million customers always looking for more? Aw Join Folks. In seventy countries already saving test them out for free transfer wise dot com slash. podcast download the APP again. That's transfer wise dot com slash podcast. What kind of person listen falls for a hat? And what kind of person tracks down the voice on the other end of the call. Introducing the mother hacker who the new scripted fiction podcast from Gimblett starring Carey Koon and featuring Hadra Pascal Lucas Focus Hedges Alan Cumming Evanston and reply. All's Alex Goldman and more when single mom bridget down to her last Donna decides to track down a hacker tech family. Life takes a desperate turn she steps into a hidden world. Play with a gift for Gab and an ex husband and Rehab. She unexpectedly journeys down the rabbit hole of the dark web. Beyond mother hacker you can get full episodes right now. Three on spotify Joan John Maynard. Keynes was the ultimate insider as a schoolboy. He was educated at Eton College. Just like Britain's first prime minister nineteen of a since like his father. He became a senior academic. A fellow of King's College. The most spectacular of all Cambridge colleges his his job during the first world. War was managing both debt and currency on behalf of the British Empire. He'd barely turned thirty canoe. Everyone he whispered in the ear of prime ministers he had the inside track on whatever was going on in the British economy. The Bank of England. Here I just wanted to let you know that interest rates will be rising Tamara but this child old of the British establishment was a very different person to his American rival Irving Fisher. He loved fine wines and rich food. He gambled monte-carlo is sex. Life was more like nineteen seventies pop star in a nineteen hundreds economist bisexual. poly-amorous eventually settling down. Not with his childhood sweetheart with a Russian Ballerina. One of Keynes's ex-boyfriends was the best man at their wedding and canes was adventurous interest in other ways to in nineteen eighteen for example as the first World War was raging and the German army was camped outside Paris. Canes caught caught wind of the fact that in Paris. The Great French impressionist artist. Edgar Degas was about to auction his vast collection of pieces by from from his greatest nineteenth century. Painters and so- canes embarked on and Insane Adventure. I he spoke to the Chancellor of the Exchequer. Yeah the UK's Senior Treasury minister asking for a phone for purchasing art twenty thousand pounds. That's millions in today's money may okay not at the first occasion that I've ever known you in favor of any expenditure won't so ever remember. The British Treasury was four years into fighting the most devastating war the planet had yet seen the Canes New House against his way. My picture coup was a well into fair carried out in a day and a half before anyone. Anyone had time to reflect on what they were doing. I think the chancellor was very much amused my wanting to buy pictures and eventually let me have my way as a sort of a joke luke. Some joke escorted by destroyers and a silver airship watching overhead canes crossed the channel to firms with the director of London's National Gallery. Who'd shaved off his moustache so that nobody recognized him? And just as daggers. Auction begins the German Jam. An artillery starts up some people panic and hurry out. Canes Pounces Buying Twenty seven pieces at rock bottom prices for the National National Gallery and he buys a few himself including Suzanne which these days would be regarded as better by than anything the National Gallery Director to chose it costs canes just three hundred seventy pounds then flee back to the English Channel and Cross home with a convoy convoy of hospital ships exhausted after his nonstop adventure canes calls in on some friends. I've got in my suitcase. It was too commit to carry. So I've left it in the ditch behind the gate. What Irving Fisher would have made it at all? I do not know yet like Fisher. Keynes was also pursuing an investment career. It wasn't just an art. He set up what some historians described as the first hedge fund to speculate on currency movements. He raised money from rich friends. And from his own father to whom he made the not entirely reassuring comment win or lose this high stakes. Gambling amuses me. Initially canes made money fast but then a brief spasm in the currency markets wiped out his phoned in nineteen twenty won't quit but he went back as investors including his own father an awesome to trust him with more of money. I am not in a position to risk any capital capital myself. Having quite exhausted my resources remember. This is John Maynard. Keynes the man who persuaded a wartime in government to speculate in a Parisian art auction. The man a Canadian diplomat mistook for an angel. I anticipate very substantial prophets with very a good probability if you are prepared to stand the racket for a couple of months. Of course. They gave him the money he wanted. Canes was back in profit by nineteen twenty two you so having made a small fortune lost it and made it again. Canes turned to the vast investments of his own college king's Cambridge Canes persuaded his fellow academics to let him adopt a radical money-making strategy. He would forecast. Booms comes in recessions and move in and out of different economic sectors accordingly. Such an approach makes sense only if you actually can forecast most recessions. Canes was the leading economists in the country and a man who remember would get friendly phone calls from the Bank of England if anyone could see into the future of the British economy it was John Maynard Keynes by late nineteen thousand nine both Irving Fisher Asia and John Maynard. Keynes were rich famous respected and standing on the brink of a financial precipice. The Cataclysmic Wall Street crash followed by the Great Depression. The worst peace-time economic calamity to before the Western world and the two greatest is to columnists of the age Fisher and canes both of them failed to see it coming Experts don't have a stellar reputation for forecasting in nineteen eighty seven. The young Canadian born psychologist named Philip tedtalk became curious about the entire prognostication racket. Tet Lock had been interviewing Cold War experts and he soon found himself frustrated by their wildly different predictions their refusal to change their minds when they were wrong and the endless endless excuses for their forecasting failures. Ted Talks response was patient. Painstaking and quietly brilliant. He began to collect act forecasts from almost three hundred. Experts eventually accumulating twenty seven thousand five hundred predictions. He focused on politics. Listen geopolitics throwing a few questions. From areas such as economics Ted talks sought clearly defined questions enabling him with the benefit of hindsight site to pronounce each forecast right or wrong then tedtalk simply waited while results rolled in eighteen years. Ted Talk published his conclusions in two thousand and five in a subtle and scholarly book expert Political Judgment Coun- that his his experts were terrible forecasters both in the simple sense that what they predicted often didn't happen. And in the sense that the experts had little idea of when they should be confident and when they admit that they didn't have a clue expert forecasts. Were barely more accurate than chimpanzees throwing darts most people hearing about Ted talks research simply conclude that either the world is too complex forecast or the experts are too who stupid to forecast it over on April Fools Day in twenty thirteen full days. I received an email from Philip deadlock inviting me to join what he described as a major new research program. It was funded by the. US intelligence services is this program continued and expanded Tet locks long running study in the form of a forecasting tournament. You would simply log onto a website. Give your best judgement about matters. You may be following anyway and update that judgment if and when you feel it should be when time passes and forecasts are judged you compare your results results with those of others. More than twenty thousand people signed up some professionals and some amateurs tetlow and his colleagues ran experiments on this army army of volunteers giving them different kinds of training or assembling them into teams to see if that helped. I didn't join in a told myself I was too busy. I I suppose I was chickening out too but the fundamental reason that I didn't participate was because Ted talks work had already persuaded me that the forecasting task was impossible. But it wasn't. This vast new tournament identified a select group of people whose forecasts while by no means perfect perfect. Were vastly better than the DART throwing chimp. Standard Ted talk with an uncharacteristic touch of hyperbole called them super forecasters so what makes a super forecaster. The super forecasters are what psychologists call actively open minded thinkers these people who didn't cling to tightly to a single approach who were comfortable abandoning an old view in the light of fresh evidence or new arguments and who who embraced disagreements with others. As an opportunity to learn the secret super forecasting it's a willingness to change your mind it getting out of the Rut and stay in creative is easier said than done especially with a busy schedule after. You're done listening to this episode of Cautionary Tales. I implore you you to join skill share and take one of the thousands of classes that are offered from writing to graphic design or illustration is even a class on how to make the perfect grilled cheese skill. Share is an online learning community. The Creator in all of US Ne'er classes are on demand. Said you you can learn at your own pace join. The millions of students already learning on skill share and get two months free. You sign up at skill. Share DOT DOT com slash tales at two home said unlimited access to thousands of classes. Free get started today. I I heading to skill. SHARE DOT com slash tales. T. A. L. E. X. dot com slash towns Philip tat locks work on super forecasting has rightly attracted a huge amount of attention. But I think there's a message in that work that's often overlooked a willingness to change. Your mind doesn't just help. You make better forecasts. It helps helps you cope with failed predictions to. Let's return to John. Maynard Keynes Than Irving Fisher. Both of them remember had persuaded swayed themselves. That their expertise in economics should lead to investment success. Both of them were wrong. The Stock Market Crash of nineteen twenty. Nine court each of them by surprise both lost a lot of money yet. Here's a curious fact. Despite his failure canes denied a millionaire and perhaps the most celebrated economist in the World Fisher may basically the same mistake yet. Yet it ruined both his finances and his reputation why the difference in their fortunes in a way. The answer is ridiculously a simple. Canes changed his mind and changed his investment strategy. Fisher change neither but that only oh knee raises a deeper question. Why did Keynes Change while Fisher? Didn't canes had lost one fortune in nineteen twenty and survived the experience by nine hundred twenty nine before the crash. He was again pondering his shortcomings his investment strategy based on the assumption that he could predict the ups and downs of the business. Cycle wasn't working out. He started thinking about how to change. Changes Approach Canes Lost More than eighty percent of his net worth in nineteen twenty nine but even afterwards he was still rich and short. He had plenty of evidence that had made a mistake. He had experience of making mistakes in the past and bouncing back and he was still comfortably off. Why Not Change Range by the Early Nineteen Thirties? Canes had abandoned business cycle forecasting entirely the greatest economist in the world had decided he. He just couldn't do it well enough to make money as time goes on. I get more and more convinced that the right method investments is to put fairly large sums into enterprises enterprises which one thing one knows something about and in the management of which one thoroughly believes forget. What the economy's doing just find great eight companies and invest for the long term and if that approach sounds familiar it's most famously associated with Warren Buffett? The world's richest investor her that a man who loves to quote John Maynard Keynes. Keynes is rightly viewed today as a successful investor. At King's college he recovered from the poor performance of the early years he secured high returns with modest risks outperforming. The stock market is a whole many times over. It's an impressive reward for being able to change your mind. Having Fisher Fisher was in a very different situation Irving Fisher's business page had graced newspapers across the country when things turned sour Fisher was a scapegoat in in front of the entire United States. The New York Times reported that the bubble had been blamed on. US Treasury Secretary Mellon former President Coolidge judge and Professor Irving Fisher of Yale and Professor Irving Fisher of Yale was in deep financial trouble. The fact that his investments it's were made using leverage meant that both gains and losses were magnified. What had seemed like brilliant before the crash was catastrophic? Afterwards Woods Fisher was staring in the face of bankruptcy the loss of his house his businesses everything for example one of fishes major investments. I was in the stationery company Remington Rand. It was fifty eight dollars a share before the crash dropping to twenty dollars within a few months at that point Fisher borrowed more money to invest but the share price kept falling all the way to one dollar you can imagine his desperation nation but surely being in such a tight spot would have made Fisher more likely to adapt his strategy. Not Necessarily I've received another message. Everyone gets your overcoats and stand by. Hi Okay Okay okay. Everyone sit quietly in the living room. We shall act as if this were just an ordinary gathering of friends. Let's remember Dorothy Martin. UFO called Nave persuaded themselves that the world is about to be flooded and that they will be saved at midnight take delivering them safely to Planet Clarion and remember too that the psychologist. Leon festinger has infiltrated the cult. His researchers searches were there that night to observe what happened. FESTINGER had a striking prediction that when the aliens didn't appear many cultists wouldn't be discouraged by the clear failure of Mrs Martens Prophecy or feel angry and betrayed. Instead they would redouble efforts to believe Another reporter no doubt. Just hang up. Art Preparations cannot be interrupted. We'll call them later. If we have anything for the clock pass MIC national acid a couple of minutes. back-off is look at the other clock and I said it myself this afternoon and it's not midnight yet one minute to midnight on the street. You're at midnight. The aliens did not appear. Nobody said a word. One of the more casual cult members bruce who'd expressed skepticism before picked up his coat and hat and walked out no comment. We we have nothing to tell you. People tried to make sense of what was happening or rather not happening. The theories grew ever wilder. People were confused exhausted hosted Leon festinger observers. Tried to ask why the saucer hadn't come group. Didn't want to talk about it and then at four o'clock in the morning Dorothy. Martin put her face in her hands and began to weep one of his researches step outside for some air and discuss the situation with leading cult member. I've had a long way to go I've given given up just about everything Everyti- burned every bridge. Turn my back on the world. I CAN'T AFFORD TO DOUBT I. I have to believe and they went back inside but at four forty five. Am Dorothy Martin. With hand shaking and picked up a pencil and began to write. It was she said a new message. The cause of the faith shown owned by that small group of people the Earth had been spared destruction. A higher power would save not only the small Colt but the entire human race at this the cultists acquired new fervor going out to greet the door and tell people the good news news. They suddenly became evangelists issuing statements to the press. Ravin batting them away. Dr Is this the first time you've called the newspaper yourself. Oh yes. This is the first time I've ever called them. I've never had anything to tell them before. But now I feel it's urgent. I can't we should call the Associated Press on the United Press. This thing is pretty important so very big thing bigger than just one newspaper. I don't I don't think the Creator would want this to be an exclusive story not definitely not own correct. It's it's gotta be everybody for everybody. Grug yes festinger had been right. His view that the cultists would redouble their efforts to believe in the face of failure was based on a theory. He called cognitive dissonance. Ascendance cognitive dissonance predicts that people will start to squirm when they hold contradictory thoughts such as it's worth quitting my the job in order to be collected by aliens and the aliens did not show up. People often deny the obvious in order to reduce is the discomfort and the more suffering people have put themselves through on behalf of a belief the more likely they are to cling onto it otherwise olot plot suffering would seem ridiculous. Would it not fasting. Gas Theory applies perfectly to to poor Irving Fisher in the nineteen thirties. He believed himself to be a man of logic and reason and yet he was deeply indebted that the most famous financial basket case in the country in fact if people today no just warm thing about Irving Fisher. It's this two weeks before the Wall Street crash began he was quoted by The New York Times. Stocks have reached what looks like a permanently imminently high plateau. How'd you back away from that? Fisher went deeper and deeper in debt to the taxman and to his brokers towards the end of his life he was a marginalized figure a widower an easy target for scam artists and their get rich quick schemes. Because he was always on the lookout for a way to revive his fortune he never did. Although canes had much in common with Fisher he was a different kind of character recall. Keynes's common his father this high stakes gambling. Dan Uses me the Monte-carlo Gambler knew all along but wall investing was a fascinating game. It was a game nonetheless and one shouldn't taken unlucky. Throw of the dice too much to heart. When his investments flopped he tried something else Fisher and canes died within a few months of each other not long after the end of the Second World War Fisher had become irrelevant? Canes Haynes was the most influential economist on the planet fresh from shaping the World Bank the IMF and the entire global financial system looking back canes reflected. My only regret is that I have not drunk more champagne in my life. But he's remembered far more for the words that he probably never said nevertheless lived by them when my information changes I ultimate conclusions. And what do you do sir. If only taught that lesson to Irving Fisher you've been listening to cautionary tales if you'd like to find out more about the ideas in this episode including links thanks to our sources the show notes on my website. Tim Halford Dot Com. Cautionary Tales is written and presented by me. Tim Harford our produces are Ryan Deli and Marilyn Rust. The sound designer and mixer was Pascal wise who also composed the amazing music. Starring starring in this season are Alan Cumming. Archie pange rb Toby Stevens and Russell Tovey alongside Enzo Celente at Gahan Melanie Gutteridge Messiah Monroe and Rufus Right and introducing Malcolm Bradwell. Thanks to the team at Pushkin Industries Julia Julia baton had a fain meal. Abell Colleen Yori Jacob Weisberg and of course the mighty Malcolm Dodwell and thanks to my colleagues at the Financial Financial Times

Professor Irving Fisher John Maynard Canes Irving Fisher Fisher Fisher Keynes Fisher Leon festinger England Fisher Irving Fisher Asia Dorothy Martin canes Cambridge The New York Times Canes New House Bank of England Dorothy mountain Canes Haynes Cambridge Canes United States
CLAB 005: The Kyrie Conundrum -- deconstructing popular narratives about the divisive player

Celtics Life NBA Basketball Podcast

56:37 min | 9 months ago

CLAB 005: The Kyrie Conundrum -- deconstructing popular narratives about the divisive player

"The only Welcome inside Celtics Lab. podcast this episode we dive into the aborted homecoming coming. If you could call it that of Kyrie Irving which is not happening on the day of this recording Wednesday November twenty seventh as well as trying to unpack a lot out of the narratives which swirl around this polarizing player. We've brought on Jackman. Well the Brooklyn Buzz in off the glass fame. Try to help us get to the bottom of what we know you. What we think we know? And what we don't know of Irving's impact from the to entangle eastern conference franchises. Has it going on to be on a Boston. Celtics podcast with the only to Boston. Celtics fans that I actually like. Thank you sir. Oh totally like you to listen. Yeah Yeah I mean I get it because it's gotten to the point where some of these narratives about Kyrie like I really do you know. Hang my hat on some of them but a lot of of them are really getting under my skin just sorta piece in USA Today about one of them. We can talk about that later but before we get into the Kyri stuff. Let's let's ministers to check John what's been going on since our last pod. The win streak is over but the losses have at least been close. Cam gave me thoughts on basically the game that we have gone through with some mixed results since the win streak ended. Yeah I mean I think for me. The Way I've approached changed how this the Celtics of had such an improbable start has been Tepid optimism. I don't really think that the Celtics have played that many great were impressive. The game they beat the bucks and they beat the mavs and that was good but mostly they were just beating up on bad teams so I kind of was unsure of what to make of. This is team. I think that the way that the celtics hung around with the clippers and just turn it into a rock fight. It was really interesting. And if you're a celtics fan incredibly encouraging urging they did not win that game Because quite Leonard Quite Leonard things down the stretch but I thought that was really talent thing and gave a better peak at what the Celtics ceiling might be. Then you know beating Phoenix Or beating up on some bad teams in the Eastern Conference. AFRI- you know to be fair. Phoenix has been surprisingly good this season. I'm actually surprised. Beat them by as much as we did We face them last week. They did have Rubio Ricky Rubio out. So He's been along Aron Baynes unfortunately for us a bit. He's been a big part of their success. So far this season but like you I was really early. Surprised with what happened with the clippers Particularly when you take into account that we were we were down on Hayward Gordon Hayward and we still manage to due to do pretty well we. We probably couldn't won. That game had broken just a little bit different. I mean the Celtics started. Oh for fifteen from three exactly. Two of those go down. The outcome is incredibly different. I mean maybe throughout the whole whole the whole game too because once you start feeling it you know it goes in a lot more often so without without dwelling on the win loss record too much After seen the Three loss to win road trip definitely. Not You know the outcome we wanted obviously but considering how close allowed to games war Have you has your opinion changed about what this team could possibly do this. This season at all I think I'm pretty impressed with the rookies The other day against Sacramento Jason. TATUM was the most experienced celtics player on the floor. For maybe like four minutes and that is just a testament of like what has happened to the team but by and large the rookies have you've been able to hang grant Williams refuses to make three otherwise the celtics getting great production out of the young players which I don't oh how sustainable that is but Is Part of the puzzle for how the Celtics team is winning as many games as one. I still have big questions about what happens when you face. Anthony Davis Or Joel embiid when he's actually on The frontline for the Celtics. I don't know how long long they can get away with this crazy small But that's a Tyson has been playing. Great Robert will streams is really looking promising so maybe that in and of itself is not that much of a problem so so I think there's so much heart and the Celtics team. There's a lot of UPTEMPO play going on But then again they can slow things down the way that they did against against the clippers so I wasn't Super Bullish on Celtics going into the season and I think I might have been wrong to be that because it's looking good. Yeah I am actually right there with you in terms of having started out pretty against the word you use tepid is created way to describe it. I had very qualified expectations of just not being as bad as last season which seemed like a pretty pretty easy bar to meet meet which we will talk about extensively in a little bit but I feel like this is a good point to talk about the other major thing that happened uh-huh and I really wanted to say something about this. A lot of listeners regular listeners know I teach in addition to writing To you know what am I table and Dan. I was teaching on English class while watching that to come. Celtics game The Denver Nuggets Game. Where I wasn't I didn't even see the play? I just saw the collision I just looked up from one of my students saying something and saw Kemba Walker go head first into Semioli and let me tell you. I almost had to stop the class because I was so shook up by what I was seeing. I'm I'm sure the rest of you Who saw some of that It was not an easy thing to watch Is just a freaking miracle that you know he's basically Pipe Hi potentially able to play tonight against Brooklyn and if not. I think he'll be back for Friday. Yeah I thought my I don't I said afterwards I can't remember seeing a player on the ground for that long and then on the stretcher for that long they were so careful with him to the extent that I thought he was paralyzed and it just looked. The play itself wasn't so scary but the follow up after I was watching it a bar so I didn't get to hear any of the commentary commentary but it just looked like a crime scene almost the way that people are being so careful And I think that I mean everything thing lives on the edge of chaos in the NBA. We're GONNA talk with the nets shortly but the Kevin Durant injury was pretty fluky and eye injury you like this. Two Combo would have completely changed the fortune for the Celtics and so on any given night the entire fate of the MBA could change because someone goes headfirst into their teammates. avs I mean it's just crazy. Yes fall but I'm saying in in the comparison I sold it might was John. Moran ran a not the same sort of injury but the same gravity and sort of dying judge that it looked like the injury had sort of inflicted upon the Playa and John Moran ended up coming back and he's been healthy enough since obviously he plays Wilde. boscell completely. Different solvable to come. But that's what a fluke Nigerian nor really agree uh-huh signing cabin in the sense that the it you wanNA knocks edge in this league and any team wanted to injuries can really change the the trajectory of your Having Al three best players out for extended periods of time Kharian Kerosene accountability back in the next three weeks. Cari hopefully backs in the Knicks Waco. But here this talk that he might need shoulder surgery so he can really change your entire ceiling. And if you don't have the requisite depth switch you know the Celtics are certainly developing in Brooklyn hopefully odd now with this mini one that they're having as well. You can really full behind the night bowl indeed and to be honest the next topic really today. Kyri obviously isn't playing too big Disappointment to people Maybe maybe if surgery is off the table an easy to come out we might see him away At Barclays on Friday but at least for now there is a bunch of stuff swirling around the NBA media in particularly the Boston Celtics media. That is getting kind of insufferable. At least you know on one hand for you guys Brooklyn fans out there. Who are just hearing the endless comparisons and I think a lot of our van we can talk about in in today's lab But on the other hand also just this idea that he is trying to avoid games James and so we have these narrative you twin twin macklin multiple narratives that we should probably dive into. So I mean that's why we brought you on Jack to talk about this and see exactly no evidence. There is for a lot of these different trends. That people are talking about the trends. That Kyrie's of some kind of a locker room cancer her or that. His style of play only works in certain situations Ideas that you know. He will never play for a home. Game of a franchise They used to play for all these different things. This pretty compelling evidence for some and not for others so how about we take a look and and see exactly what there is to some of these. These narratives the KYRI conundrum. How much or little is he behind? Signed the current situations both the nets in the Celtics. I'm now recently in this speaks to some of the narratives will be diving into off. The Nets have started turning around While Irving has been sitting with that shoulder impingement at the same time where the Celtics really probably expected just to be around a five hundred team maybe a little bit better. This season They're doing a lot better than expected. Is I guess the way I want to say that a now the question is why. What do we feel about? Kyri being behind Brooklyn's rough start. Is there anything right now before we look the things that speak to us about this see. I'm I'm always sceptical about adjusted in the sense. That unintended Brooklyn about that. Tough of Stott. I always thought that would be about a forty five win team at best not not saying that we couldn't be better and worse. You know. Maybe I just under five hundred team you know we just go to over five hundred The other night. Thanks to the Cleveland Win. So I think Karma you're having has got in a lot of games sometimes in light game situations to represent the narrative where he's not so much a closed that he's sort of taking away from. What is the beautiful broken? That's possible where we moved a bull in your hundred hundred passes a guy yes he can get things down but at the same time. That is the catch twenty two when you have a superstar dot law caray. Who can get you in those games in the first place? There's no way we would have had a chance against Utah Against Denver with that. The the exploits of carryover. Yes the Denver game. I don't think he should play on a nickel said that on the broken bus too. So I think it's something you have to balance when you have an enigmatic superstar on the court this is just purely on the like cargo of and you need to take on some of his positives as well as some of his negatives and for me. That's a challenge. That coach Kenny and the Stop has to work on and I think he has gotten better of really locks them. He's passing games. This season as well. I remember in the first half of cover was Utah Demo. When he had eight assists I think it was Denver actually and are up at the the silly spongebob? Mary's like he doesn't move the ball. He bugs on the offense but I think it there is there. There is some validity to the narrative. Wet You know he he he can make your team West in some aspects but I think what he does and the talent that he brings things he still does make his teammates betta purely because the gravity of his individual talent but I understand in terms of the fit and intend to certain in situations where he might not be ideal in specific organizations that. Yeah it's Interestingly enough I found some stats. One is that as of I think. Two days ago Kyrie was leading the League in Clutch points at fifty one of those which are In a game where the scores five points or closer in five minutes left in that game so the narrative. The uncle drew is is clutch still holds water But then that doesn't really vibe with the test Because there have been stretches where he goes into hero mode in like a really counter productive. Way I also found that the nets are ranked twenty eighth and passes is per game Which Jack to your point the Nazis to have like this really great team i? Let's pass the ball at share. The Rock game where de Ngelo Russell was. Maybe maybe the focal point of the offense but barely And now the nets Don't have that going on Kyrie Irving is averaging seven and a little more than seven assists per game which is about Actually it's better. I think as a number it but it doesn't always have the same function way as certainly last year's nets team and then also as a team that has all the pieces this is together but then it's also they have integrated a new point guard They have integrated a new center. And that takes time there. We're only a fifth of the way through the season so it's not like they've had a tremendous amount of experience together making this work so I think I I agree with you. Justin I in preparing for this. I was just going through some of the headlines about Cairo about Kemba and Leading to once in its net celtics game and it's is just poisonous on both sides The Boston based writers or slandering Kyrie and Vaunting Kemba and then the Brooklyn Writers are ignoring wearing some key problems at the nets. Have And I think really. It's just like not enough. Time has persisted. I think the Celtics should be happy because Kemba has been great and it does seem like the chemistry is completely different than it was last year. And and that's great and then the nets. We don't know what's going to happen because Kevin Durant is accused piece that puzzle and he's on the sidelines so almost everything that's going to happen happened between now and then is a moot point in the first place so I love a good hot take good narratives. I Love Big Games around holidays but adjusted to your point. Some of it is just a crazy amount of noise And then I have one thing to add which is well. I'll let you transition because I some thoughts on whether or not skipping this game or not I have. I have a little a little bit. I would like to add to this. Speaking to Jack's point which is the justice. And you've touched is while the structural nature of this team with durant being a huge portion of the team salary cap completely able to play We knew you know. It's not exactly a mystery that irving is I won't I won't come a fragile fragile player. But he has all kinds of small injuries that routinely make a miss ten percent or more each season. It's almost like clockwork. So you factor those two things things in with the fact that they shipped out a large part of the roster that made them tick lessees nut two key parts mercifully for how to do now except when they face. The Celtics of course Tom I think there was much of an ability for this team to be much more successful than being anyway. And they don't control their pick which is an important factor. We'll talk about later. All the odds are they were going to end up getting anyway because considering a lottery protected detected in you know while the Eastern conference is weak the still a fairly high bar for them to meet particularly if they're looking at the end of the season for example if they're having a ride irving as they did earlier in the season with bill over thirty minutes a game. Just just stay in them all but if you return to where the situation is now in in the last six games he has been out there five and one compared to four to seven mm-hmm with him. which does lean on That whole narrative that he is behind to at least a certain degree. But it's really kind of hard to separate separate Whether or not it's irving that's the problem or the fact that you know as you go onto the season People start to get chemistry particularly when you had element as there are on this team. So it's really hard to decipher Unin Joan. Whether or not. He's very responsible even at all responsible. But let's go to to to the Celtics and their their current on surprising with her Kyrie not being on the team has. What are your thoughts Jack? Really think it is but I think it takes away from a little points to both of you guys have been by tapping some of the results. The the growth from Jason Tatum and Jalen brand-new Marcus Smart. So may you know. He's been defensive player of the year so far I really liked. He's putting into place tribute Felli enough enough. And he was listening to play that he found toughest event. The city's full payment and Cario ving on there as well. And obviously Gordon Hayward playing revitalize BOSC ask the side of the seasons. Well I think it takes away from those elements to put it all on cargiving. I think it's easy but I also think it's lazy and I think for the most part the most which Don Boston Celtics fans the most Plugin Celtics fans like you guys will address and give credence to specific narratives in specific civic elements for what it's worth but knowing that kimball walkers almost a better stylistic fit for this Brad Stevens offense and it's it's a pretty good defensive possible as well as well. He's almost an upgrade. I Guess Zach Thomas Boca supercharged. Isaiah will also be able to provide agenda Brandon entitled entitled that's the Big Three quote unquote has been sensational. And you're obviously these young guys as well. We thought that they'd have offered that would have some moisture issues that set up but I think toss has been really good as defensive presence in their young guys to cancel your. He can fill in here Neb.. He's had each injury. I think for the most part pop. There isn't Elton. But putting like a nickel as likes to give me a percentage he likes to throw percentage that may well if we if it's a percentage it's under ten percent. I'll say I don't want to. I said it's being late leaving the organization whereas ninety percent plus is all of the elements that I just listed and mole. Oh there's a synergistic stuff going on camera. I'm wondering if you are seeing missing as me. You tend to pay more attention to the Celtics. I'm assuming than than Jack does. What are you? What are you seeing in terms of like this Kemba Walker synergies this legit for one thing? you know both of these teams. Ironically enough are tied for having the fifth easiest records. So it's pretty hard according to vegas arm so it's pretty hard to blame that on either side for having a role I mean. What are your thoughts based on? What you're seeing gene terms with Jack was talking about? I think Jack's right all right players have stopped for the Celtics. which is exactly what needs to happen for them to stay afloat I think the way that I have been trying to make sense of it is if you switch Kyri Kemba the season and I I just feel like it would be opposite results. I think that the nets would be really smooth sailing if they had Kemba right now And I think that the Celtics would continue to struggle. The way they had in the Kyrie Irving era I think it has a little bit. It seems like Kemba is just like a lightning rod of positively but I think also a little bit. He doesn't demand the ball in the same way at the very doesn't kind of carry the same gravity. I'm they're both in their ninth season to get a a as a pro but the just the pedestal. That Kyri is song is very different so it feels a little unfair to the rest of the Celtics to say. Well you got rid of Kyrie and I think getting rid of Al Horford opened up opportunity. So that's part of it too. I mean I think if you compare the usage rates between the two players pretty similar Kyrie is taking a bit more actually taking twenty three shots per game and Campos taking seventeen shots per game. So there's a little bit of something there but I just think that the Celtics locker room really was such a weird toxic place last season. I thought I don't know if you guys saw Rachel Nichols had an interview with Danny Ainge. I thought he handled it really well. L. And he almost admitted he should have traded young people to Young Celtics rather to make things easier for kyrie irving which was interesting interesting. But I think it's just like the Celtics Have a hot new young girlfriend and they feel so good about themselves. Yeah and I think eventually the rubber will hit the road and the regress to the mean a little bit And then the nets. I think that if we're using the girlfriend analogy they also have a hot new girlfriend They're just acclimating a little more slowly and that's fine to run with it I tend to agree with all of this. Yes I do think that there is something to the notion that each will be a better fit for their respective teams. The way they are going to be constructed I feel like the nets knew what they were doing. They set the team. You know. Katie is the perfect one age. Kyrie's one be he's going to take the pressure off. Kyri sorry to be the person who all the microphone. Get Rams in the face of on every night that you know he clearly does not like into that do well. With and he'll he'll be able to be the kind of leader that he wants to be in Brooklyn you know if we look back at the strongest evidence of how poor of fit that he was the celtics that would be the first season when he was with the team and more more in stark contrast the second season were he had irrespective point six five three winning record With him on the Celtics playing for the Celtics in two thousand seventeen eighteen compared to six fifty seven within out. Not that impressive. You know. Maybe there's something there it's very small difference but then you look at last season. It's just wow like point. Eight five seven when record with him out Point five nine three with him in So I mean there's clearly some evidence that at least last season wants everyone had no contract Interest to take care of When everyone had whatever else was going on their lives that it was just like oil and water you know whatever for whatever? was there the season before that you know there were hints of. It became very clear last season that the structure was. Just you know unsupportable. It just couldn't lasted didn't so I do think that there is evidence of something that's not necessarily evidence that Kyrie's absence is y Boston's doing so much better. It's your evidence that wasn't a good fit with that roster in my opinion which brings us to another. I think this is going to be a very quick one on for us to deal with but the notion that Kyri is a problem for locker. Rooms thoughts from the broker perspective Justin. It's been anything Baden. We saw Jared Allen gone a the prince report I am a and he said that you know completely false and that sort of sense cards Kenny's in off to the Jackie macmullan pace taste was released. which was everyone that actually read? It was a completely thoughtful. Holistic pace about caray heyday and DJ was an amazing pace. But when you have bleacher report getting the the little black boy sort of elements pick out the quite stiff sort of stick to them I. It's not true. I think think that Kyrie who have seen him. Now when I was over in the states you know he was he was planning and he was having fun on the bench you know. He's dancing with Thea. He's he's doing all the celebrations he's talked about. How happy is in Brooklyn because he you know? He's able to go to games with his dad. You know he's able to be with family you no. He's Pot Nah he feels like this is hunt for him and I think that we can't underestimate that element for for these guys. And I think it speaks to general general superstar movement but just be comfortable in a in your work situation. I think all of us deserve that opportunity and I think if you have the ability ability to do that to find that sort of element of harm in that element of comfort in your workplace. I think that you should go for. It doesn't matter if you're a teacher like a lot of fun on this podcast right now or NBA. All of us Aba. I mean I mean I've told him a couple of different countries and teach Melvyn in London. And maybe I want to teach in the states one day but I think to say you know he has a negative impact on local routes has some because you know the results of what you saw in Boston which official Shortcut Cameron. And you will touch on a little bit but in Brooklyn until I say something. That isn't Stephen. A Smith tycoon. I take then unless it comes from. You know coach Kenny. Himself Will Spencer Dinwiddie will a more credited new Brooklyn Nets reporter. I'm not buying camp I actually disagree agree with Jack Because I think that this is a young nets team. That will be surprised at the demands of a superstar player. Like Kyri He's just mini. Lebron he thinks a certain way and wants things a certain way and he is one of the twelve best people people in the world at what he does. So he's entitled to do that I think that the young players will end. Maybe coach Atkinson. Because I mean he's untested in a Lotta ways to. I think that they will struggle to keep up with his weird mood swings and When things get tough that will be really challenging for them? Yeah but even though things got tough Justin can I swear you can swear your frigging when he when Kyrie told Fanta seconds deck or whatever that yeah that was an early struggle for the Kyri Celtics and then things got great and then he got hurt which is something we should talk about And then he came back in he was moody again so This little bit of struggle does not qualify nets fans to say that they have experienced what it means to have Kyrie Irving on your team team because you guys better. Just buckle up. Wait all of that being said I think Kevin Durant and the android and change everything because as we John Cleveland. If there are other superstars to Cohabitate with Kyrenia understand where he's coming from to take pressure off of him to talk to the media like you said Justin to just share the spotlight and responsibility and everything that comes with it That's going to be huge because in Boston. Austin the closest thing to that was either Al Horford who is not cut from the same superstar cloth or Jason Tatum. It was twenty years old at the time. So I think that it's very possible that we continue to hear weird stories about Kyrie Coming out of Brooklyn and his young teammates are tested but once Kevin Durant rant in the fold assuming that happens. I think this will be very different than anything that happened in Boston. I think not just because Kevin Durant is one of the best basketball players in world but just because of who durant is and how much of a peer he is to carry irving. I think that's GonNa Change everything I I completely agree. I came too much more than that other than the fact that we are hearing all that. He is incredibly toxic Teammate at of his former. Cleveland automates you. Know we do know that he is a demanding difficult at times teammate but most people in the NBA at moment are in particularly stars. So it doesn't really shock me The people might think that he is a bit of a ticking time bomb but a potential. Aw Monkey wrench in any kind of feel good narrative this season and if he does get shoulder surgery. It's it's really going to be very difficult to to feel out how that going to play in terms of the overall season narrative for knit But I do think that you are right. There is still the possibility of some waves this season depending on how things break. I don't think there is has the same structure to worry about that. Really amplified it to a level that was just completely unsustainable as it wasn't Boston but I do think the nets fans they should buckle up as you said because he can't be you know pretty hard to I don't know how what the right word here to deal with. in terms of negativity. When things aren't going his way but overall I think things are structurally much better prepared for Irving Irving both in light of expectations this season but also going forward with with Jordan and with durant being on the team but this brings us to a couple of other issues? We know that he flashes Jaylen Brown in Boston. I don't think that's the same thing really as bad team is just some people. He really doesn't get along. I think something you will find with anybody on any team over time but if you need a certain rostrum makeup sixty my off base for this premise. That's another big narrative and I see that you know things are already going much better for him with a roster. That's much more similar to what he had in Cleveland. Mylan island here or is this like a narrative completely of my own a few others celtics writers making kind like Clung Onto Jack. What do you think I think this is a narrative? Justin probably has the most voiced validity out of all of them because it's based off pass results and we can sort of see the evidence already there. And obviously it's unproven in Brooklyn Right now. The the results didn't occur Boston despite the high levels of town. But I think sort of touch you ought to get a little bit the locker room and personality dynamics of teammates. I think in comparison if you comparing njit brand through like a Costa vote as a one to one fifth has a a mole malleable personality. To decide I guess. Jelly brands is a bit more headstrong in a positive way. I Love Joan Brown that's just an NBA personality. And I think a lot of young guys in the locker room locked Jared Allen incredibly softly spoken you know just the other day coach to him John we need you to step up into more consistent. He's like okay consistent and that he has like two fifty and fifteen game game another twenty twenty game so I think the in terms of makeup in them roster I think Brooklyn is similar to Cleveland. Obviously it's going to be very hot to sort of say say unto and analyze and assess until we see Kim around the basketball court but I think it's also due to the fact. That commie chose this situation. Yes yes you know. He was motivated. Yes he wanted to come back to busted but he was traded there and despite everything and everything that he said and he didn't say Ryan that has been twisted and hasn't been twisted and came from his own mouth. He's choice was to come to Brooklyn in free agency Short Knox and coach Kenny directly. Luckily you know assessed him and how he would fit within their culture because they built the culture I and you you want to build a culture to bring the superstars and luckily enough that did happen happened. But in terms of just carry Puglia supplier and what he needs to succeed to reach he's pick individuals success and pick team success other Cleveland. It's number one thing. Kevin durant playing with you. You know your best friend. And what the one on one I at his best superstar in the lay off. I think it's GonNa be a pretty synergistic fit on the basketball court. You know obviously hopefully night get back to the level we all have saying of him and you know the we all know Lovin you know. He's one of the fifteen twenty best players in the history of the game. So I think as the one bay number two option behind Lebron behind the Kevin Kevin Durant. You can be a championship team with cargo having the ceiling with the car we ever as your number one guy restored in Boston. I think in Brooklyn I did. A pace virtually bassel in the preseason at the nets have a ceiling of the three seed. Always optimistic obviously. It would depend on health and probably detected into account enough but the floor. I think is higher than what we have at the end of the Russell as well so your car brings a lot. But I think he's individual talent levels up you'll floor but also so you have a student peak of your ceiling. At the same time I agree. I think that Kyrie Irving led team might not have a championship ceiling. I I think the Celtics from an offense standpoint it was a really great fit for Kyrie I think Brad Stevens loves to use a point guard and attack mode I think the problem is Unlike Care Sliver or Spencer Dinwiddie you had players like Terry Rosiere and Jalen Brown who had been featured players in the Eastern Conference offers finals against Lebron and they weren't about to become the seventh and eighth man While Kyrie bad Thanksgiving and has been so There was just way too many cooks in the kitchen at so it was a talented roster but the expectations were just something that I don't think any coach coach could have handled so And I think Jack Your Point doesn't get made enough Kyrie didn't choose the Celtics Situation I mean. I think there was some conversation when he was GONNA leave Cleveland that he would like to be traded to a team like Boston but It is not the same as going to the Bahamas and and handpicking your teammates like you got to do in Brooklyn so In terms of an offensive fit I think in theory Boston the way it was constituted last year the year before was spectacular And we never really got to see what could have happened with the Big Three of Kyrie Gordon Hayward Al Horford But like we said before Bambi is just chaos and so many crazy things happen such that. We never really got through that experiment. Play in the first place so speaking on things. We aren't going to see like tonight's as it's been very. Thank you the unwelcome reunion. I guess you could say our homecoming whatever you WANNA call it of Kyrie Irving to. Td Garden He. He's supposedly according to most of Celtics media faking or at least exaggerating this injury to not not play for his home as former home franchise as he supposedly did against Cleveland. And I kind of I kind of bought it a little bit when it was Cleveland but now that has become such a in Bic windass idea that he is blowing off games To avoid getting booed I mean. Do you guys like of miss out. I mean not to. He's GonNa get paid anyway but would you. Would you miss out on. You know you'd be. He's not paid millions of dollars to get you know a stadium of angry people. You know doing it you not wanting to do your job. I don't know it's just seems kind of well. Let's talk about what do you. What do you guys think of this? Narrative in the first place is a complete bowl. Is there anything to hit like. What are your thoughts? We'll start with you jack year. It's completely yesterday. Just elite as we have we been chatting a little bleach report notification that their their coward posted hanging out the side of TD Garden. And you know I mean Boston's fans will get up on their fields. And then most any any sports fan will get up in feels when you lose a generational supercell cargo having been. I think he would be happy with what you have. With the in relation to the whole L. Injury Narrative Cari having would probably relish opportunity to come up against Boston and started throw fifty point nod at him and so it in their face. It's a little bit because I think he relishes at least a subjective stamp what I see from him and what he is produced on occasions. I see him as a big occasion plan. Obviously what he did in Boston. The Post doesn't reflect that but I think when it comes selected national TV where he always seems to step up? I think in this the situation you know going back to Boston whether it's your we see him again when not necessarily when he goes back to Boston when possibly he gets back for for the Bach. DOC lies game which I don't think he'll be back just a personal opinion. I think it's I think it's silly deny at the very latest and I think it's dangerous at the worst is because you're you're questioning guys competitive nature and you're questioning a glass. You're competitive compass. Which I think from the most point in full hundred the four hundred ten MBA plies over on the lake all of them relish your paternity to go out and hoop on any occasion? And I think that a to suggest that he's faking it. I mean it's just it's just dumb. It's just stupid and I think it reflects more on if you think that that is your opinion opinion and our member Kendrick Perkins. The Guy who earns Jewish courts waited and responded to my tweets before it's all about the perk is a tax man. But it just again I think it reflects Poli on you if you have that opinion because your just a original in in your biases than it's almost dislike icon. Take anything else you might have that has validity or some legitimacy to it like if you say something about a car yeah. He did this but he also was really going might look believed anything you say because this one opinion is so bad and toxic eye. Contact anything else that you're saying seriously and I think your article highlighted a lot of energy tonight as well so I think it's just it it. It gets me worked a little bit trying to think about all the the people the Boston Globe Kendrick Perkins Stephen. I old isolated paypal. It's just you know I'll end the rambler just aside instead. I expect this from Stephen A.. I think Boston writers as a whole we can do better I have. I have had some green tea. Fan Fan boy. Kind of take stuff in the past like most of us have but I also acknowledge My my my bias is is my blindsides. How are you taking this Cam? I mean what does this feel like. Do you to me. I think it is a much much more alarming Thing thing that people need to take note of these vedic Kyrie Irvings. I believe this will be the seventh straight game that he is missing. Is that correct. Yup both Kemba and Kyrie are in their ninth season of service in NBA Kemba Walker has played six hundred. Twenty Games Kyrie his only played had five hundred. Nineteen Kyrie Irving is a fragile player. I think it lends itself to how he plays the game but at the end of the day he is. Someone who gets hurt hurt not infrequently in Boston. He played sixty games his first season. Just sixty seven the season after that He's already missing a big chunk of time. Here ear with Brooklyn I think He has played sixty one. Playoff Games So just because he's had time to rest his tired tired bones doesn't mean he's not had a long nine year career and I think that is probably Something Nets fans need to take seriously really that Kevin Durant and kyrie irving or two players That on any given stretch may be on the bench or or actually inquiries case. They won't be on the bench. They will come up with some sort of no surgery so that they don't have to be on the bench supporting their teammates So whether or not You're worried about Kyrie's injury history. I don't think that this injury is made up. I think that he is is truly has an injured shoulder and I think that he wouldn't miss six other games just to get out of Tracing the music in Boston having said that if if he was healthy I still think that he would come up with an injury and not play in. Tonight's game Jack I am questioning his his hunger. I'm questioning How how much he wants to get up and face? The fans boo boos. I think that everything I know about Kyrie Irving is that he would either fake an injury to get out of this game or otherwise completely. Shut the bed Oman so I am just going to go in jump in here. And I'll give I'll give jack a chance to rebut both of us before we get out of here but I just WanNa make a couple of points. No player are player. Rest particularly when healthy is a very hot topic right now. The League just release a clarifying memo on the eleventh a few days before he started missing games on what is required edlow Zach Lowe of ESPN did a story on. I think yesterday or the day before a a couple of days ago just yesterday on the ramifications and requirements to not play helping players. And what will happen so you have to go through a really detailed process where you have to provide documentary evidence to independent physician to verify that these players who are it sitting from national TV Games which Kyrie Irving in a game. That Vegas has all these crazy props on to say nothing of the regular bets that is an ESPN national television game in one of the most anticipated early season games of the year all. I'm pretty sure it qualifies exactly what low was talking about his article on it was independently confirmed by a team medical professional that this new regime is being institute sued to prevent teams from from seeing players during high stakes games and that they should only be sitting them if at all For Non National Television Home Games James which is also not happening I. I will not deny that there may be times where Kyrie made the executive decision with the team physicians positions to rest in light of actual things wrong with him to maybe avoid games that he didn't necessarily want to deal with you. Know the media attention. It's very clearly doesn't like media attention. I will grant that but the notion you know we need to trust people doctors. There is nothing else besides sports in the world. Where if someone says? Unless you're a Boston your asshole toll on there is no other situation in the world. Where if you are being treated ongoing by a medical doctor The people will say well. Why aren't you working? You know we need to trust these people's frigging doctors people seriously. Yes there is some fungibility where maybe one game here or a game there when someone misses egging or maybe two. It's realistic that these people could be faking it in the sense that they are kind of playing playing it up to avoid something. Sure I can. I can see that. But I mean of the three meetings with Cleveland at home that that Irving had he suited up for the first of them. It was only meeting with them in their entire regular season and he played it. You know you can't fault him in this first season for missing games names that didn't exist. You know and the postseason when he Miss Games against Cleveland Home Games against Cleveland. He was getting knee surgery. You can't be mad The person for not playing in the game. They're getting knee surgery the next season you know. There's some more viable situations that may be kind of fed this narrative all but I mean the first of the two meetings all he ended up missing. I think three of the six games before and to the four after the second he played you one of the worst games of the season with against Spurs scoring only eleven points and missed another game game after that seems like a really awkward combination of events. It's too to flesh out this narrative that he's missing these Games on purpose. Maybe one of them. Maybe other I don't buy both of those either and you know he'd already been back to Cleveland. Point two so is like is he really going to get that much negative attention going back to Cleveland. Maybe I don't know not based on what I was hearing during. The Cleveland Myriad not based hearing from former teammates this season you know he lost the last three games including the negative thirty one drubbing by Phoenix before he was out as we've said he missed six games just as the NBA. Crackdown crackdown on resting healthy players. Probably going to miss. At least two more. Maybe more you might even need surgery. I am not buying this narrative all Jack. You have anything to say ain't on on this narrative before we got here in Came if you want to you know jump back in feel free. Yeah I mean uh he was saying and I guess it's coming from a fan perspective. We're all FANS YOK at the end of the day but with guy I think it gets overlooked a little bit as well and I think it was a narrative in the preseason when Kari's at his major availability for The first time we saw in Brooklyn Nets uniform where it was speaking about the death of his grandfather and how he and I think it's partly on him as well because he didn't communicate that to or maybe he did. I'm not one hundred percent jewel. Maybe he didn't communicate that to Brad. Had Simmons at Danny Ainge and he was going through some mental demons and dealing with the grief and didn't WanNa play basketball and some nights. And maybe that you know quote unquote made him look soft and it's like he was faking an injury. Maybe some of those nights of cameras speaking about would because of that and I can totally imagine we've seen already this season a lot of playoff. Why is Hashtag Games off? Dennis Junior Ed wiggins because of destined to family legitimate reasons. Do Not WanNa play because you can't mentally be prepared for an incredibly physically taxing sport. I think the situation is different in Brooklyn. I don't think to say that. Just because he did what he did in Boston. Maine's the exact same thing is going to happen Brooklyn not saying that. It couldn't but I think it's less. Luckily because of all the things we've spoken about in terms of He's chosen to be with his organization. He surrounded by the greatest support network in his best friends. I think he might have a little bit better of a relationship just as early subjective standpoint with coach Kenny that he did with broad statements not to say that I didn't have a relationship at times. I think that there's just it was. It is beneficial as it is with Kemba Isaiah and Brad Stevens I in in comparison so I'm not completely discounting within the camp said but I think to site just because it happened. Image is going to happen everywhere I think he you is wrong. I think that Jack's pobably empirically right I think if I had to sit down with a pen and paper and and try to pick the biggest Boston sports villain Based on like behaviors that they've chose and choices that they've made probably probably Kyrie irving is not the biggest the twenty first century the biggest in a long long time which is to say that the fan reaction at the garden tonight would have been possible much and probably worse than what happened in Cleveland. Cleveland Lebron I think the Celtics six maybe should celtics fans rather should calm down and just be proud and act like been there with the team that they have. I mean they're much higher in the standings right now and then that's our That said I think that the scorn and hatred would have been one of like the most horrific Bits of booing in sports recent sports. Memory that I can think of I can't Lebron would be the only one when he went back to clear it will be on that order. Yeah that was disgusting like that. I just is because the reason why going into this game was the budget to see. See that happen and I think you might do. The points came in that act. Like you've been there your active buffet. I take the higher I mean. It's easy because we get so you caught up in sports. I mean I would say that. The way that Lebron left Cleveland I mean he raised like two and a half million dollars. for charity and the decision. And I think that whole season he was kind of coy with what his next move. Was I think Kyrie Irving made an ad with his father other saying that he's going to have his number retired as a Celtic So the way that he communicated his intentions versus the way that Lebron communicated his intentions were a little different. So I think Harry has earned a bit more scorn than Lebron did. Yeah to your point you have to be kind of an and I guess Cleveland. What what Cleveland didn't do for Lebron is inexcusable? And the first time around what Boston didn't do for Kyri is not on on the same order. So I think Celtics fans maybe get to be a little more angry at Kyrie. Then clear totally. Could've been Lebron. I think we all agree on that point and Dan. I think it's probably a good place to leave it. We'll let the audiences are respective on the incidents. I am house before we need it now. They do say no questions. Glenn doing talking about this and recapping last week. Justin on a scale of one to ten ten being unbelievably great and one being putrid. What do you think of the Boston City edition? Jerseys and Jack L.. Pose the same thing with the nets jerseys and I'll just take my hand and say I think they're both terrible. I actually liked Brooklyn ones I into how they look on. I understand why some people don't but I like the symbolism behind them I am much bigger of a fan of the city edition Celtics now that they actually don't look like some kind of weird like Irish club. Miami Heat Alternate Jersey Mash up a think. The sports illustrated ranked the brunettes like seventh edible. The city editions. Now it's know in Ne- The the the Miami Vice City flames ask so good. I'm wonderful mommy hate fan but it's nowhere near to the to the depths of the doldrums of cream city or a sack town he's It's wonderful content. But I mean whoever just to like it you talk. You'll making Jersey about the color of the bricks in your city. It doesn't make sense. I mean I spoke with us on the bus with me and I was a little bit higher on it that he was. He didn't really care he never really cares about judges. In general other ones will list the Greg graffiti ones. But then I sold them in person. They caught a mesh well with the the aesthetic of the court and such. I always loved the Cougar to me. I think that's really cool and I think it's odd because law. She's one was so cool because we're the black with the trimming whereas the WOK doesn't look as good now. I do a lot of people including a fellow j Rod that we all know. We'll Jackson is incredibly low and it because its bed stuy and still have a Jersey that actually says nets on it so said nets. Is it a bed stuy. I think most Brooklyn Nets Fan would be like this is flying but right now I'm somewhere in the middle. Well where can we find our work. Now we all right for off the glass who we can find our stuff there. You can find me on twitter at Justin Quinn. My Name. Nothing in between clean but three ends at the end long story all work. We find you guys Besides visible USA Today and Dan Double Cut UK are where you can find me where we find your best. y'All metal glass and that's republic on twitter at the James J B on the Brooklyn Buzz just bowl things and part of it also podcast. Now we're GONNA. I'm just grateful to a like speaking. I like Philip Bridge. The gap today go is bringing turn well together you know. I think that this is almost like a peace treaty of sorts. I think all Brooklyn Nets Fazal. Boston Celtics fans need to listen to this and shows that they can be healthy looking healthy debate while also finding common ground. I it's I think it's symptomatic of what we all need today. I'm going to go back to back on twitter. Jack I agree. It's just sports and it's also November. We'll talk in the spring spring also also. I'm also on the Internet. My last name to dispel a few follow them to find me. Eventually you can find the pump catcher the episode. And if you like what you hear Rina's five stars if you don't like something to give a negative rating. Tell us how to make better comment on twitter toward G.. Always trying to renew deepest dive into celtics coverage in this particular discrete convince instance Brooklyn Nets as well to carry out happy thanksgiving.

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Kyrie's apology

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00:00 sec | 1 year ago

Kyrie's apology

"Are you hiring with indeed you can post a job in minutes? Set up screener questions then zero in on your shortlist of qualified candidates using an online dashboard get started today at indeed dot com slash podcast. That's indeed dot com slash podcast. Bruce n last the podcast. We got to start with the NBA stars of today. Kyri Irving every time I hear a quote from Kyrie Irving, I resist the same urge which is to get up and talk about how much kyri clearly loves to hear kyri talk. Kyrie Irving Celtics star point guard, obviously, former Cleveland cavalier and a guy who left the familiar confines of Cleveland, while lebrons James was still there in an effort to get out from under the umbrella, the shadow whatever you wanna call it of the player that had dominated and has dominated the NBA landscape for the better part of a decade and a half. Now since he burst onto the scene and for Kyrie Irving at that time, I think we could all understand the desire in the hunger of a young player to come out and prion prove himself a guy who wanted to be a leader. But there's a difference between wanting it and getting it and going along with the things that come with that one. You get there. Now, Cairo Irving in a moment of clarity in a moment of self reflection. Has finally realized that to an extent now I still had to resist the same urge in the same reaction. When I heard a lot of these comments come out last night. Kyrie Irving who had been very critical of some of his younger teammates in public throughout the course of the season had set on multiple occasions that this team is lacking quality veteran peace, and that these young players don't really understand that at this point in a lot of it felt patronizing and a lot of it felt like Kyrie Irving was speaking from a position that maybe wasn't wholly earned yet or at the very least felt unnatural. But you do remember the LeBron James of that era in Cleveland talking about fitting out not fitting in and all these other very public shots at Kevin love and Kyrie Irving at some of the other younger. Cavaliers at that point. Lebron James who had already been a multiple time champion from his time in Miami. At that point LeBron James who it operates in a different stratosphere, even then than Kyrie Irving does. Now that was before the Cleveland championship that LeBron will tell you made him the greatest of all time with that being said, kyri Irving, I thought it was interesting enough that he did mention. After last night's win over the raptors they won seventeen one eight win for the Celtics that he did call and reach out to LeBron James after what happened in Orlando on Monday and apologized for. In your played. I wanted to everything. Fingertips. I wanted everything to be at my threshold. I wanted to be the guy that let us change leader. I wanted to be on that. And you know, the responsibility of being a best player in the world leading the team is something that's not meant for many people. Brown was one of those guys that came to Cleveland and tried to show us what it's like to win a championship. And it was hard for him. Sometimes get the most out of the group. It's not the easiest thing in the world. And like, I said only fewer or mid for chosen Florida. And you know, I feel like the best person called him because you know, he's been in this situation person. Last Michael junior here on ESPN radio were presented by progressive insurance customers switched to progressive can save an average of six hundred sixty eight dollars call or click today and find out if we could save you hundreds on your car insurance, and I have to stop myself because. The urge to criticize Cairo Irving and the urge to criticize leadership in general. When it's presented is very easy. And I'm reminded of at times the way that I wouldn't say we give LeBron James a pass. But I think we look at things through a different lens with him. Because we understand what comes along with being LeBron James I said for a long time when you were a child prodigy, and that's what he was your socialized different. And I don't think you truly get a lot of the same social cues as everyone else, and that goes to an extent for a lot of high level athletes who are pushed through and get a pass on a lot of things leading up to their time in the limelight that ultimately shapes the way, they handle events like this. But for Kyrie Irving, someone who was a guy that felt slighted by the leadership on his team for Cairo Irving, a guy who did feel like LeBron James at the time was too. To hard on them said things publicly that bothered him. You are a little more critical. When all of the sudden, the shoe is on the other foot, and we see this all the time. This isn't limited to sports you see this in your workplace, you see this in your school that the minute someone who was once under the boot gets a little bit of power. It's amazing how quickly they start wearing the same sort of clothes and wearing the same sort of attitude that the person who was formerly the bother to them did. So you see that turnaround in for Cairo Irving. Maybe that realization that comes now is for the better because tyrod serving has enjoyed having the microphone in his face in Boston. He's a guy who left for all of it. He left for every bit of what comes with being the star. And being the leader again in that spot in this time getting to do it as a champion not getting to do it as the former number one overall pick in Cleveland who didn't win anything of note until the Bron James came back. That's always a difficult part of this. Kyrie Irving with more details on the conversation between him and LeBron or actually less. Relax. Good. Okay. Because we bring O'Brien, of course, it brings. When did you? After the Orlando became into Orlando. But he say to you when you talk to them, obviously, our conversation private, I give you a great, okay? Conversation like, so there was just a lower responsibility that I had to take young player in their shoes and understanding where our young guys are, and how much responsibility I have to help teach them things and help them do little things which I am. I asked here on ESPN radio and the ESPN app leadership at times is learning. How to listen leadership is realizing that less can be more and he's gotten back publicly from guy like Jalen Brown. Who came out? And basically said we can't be pointing fingers at starts from top to bottom not from bottom to top a public shot back at a guy we've seen these sort of clashes between the young guard and the old guard you can look back at the Chicago Bulls from a few years ago. We had some of the things that went on there with a guy like regime Rondo taking the side of the younger players who were warring with the Dwayne Wade's and Jimmy Butler is of the world to now this, and I think Jalen Brown having the guts to speak up publicly about this into sort of fire a shot back across the bow reminding them, we're listening, and we did some things without you last year. That's the other thing about this young group in Boston is kyri Irving was not there in the playoffs last year. And this young Boston groups still almost took that LeBron James lead Cleveland team to the brink of extinction in the Eastern Conference finals they have that to fall back on. They may not be champions. But they're not a bunch of slouches either. That's the other side of this for that group. And so for Kyrie Irving, it's easy to get up here and have fun Kyrie's expense. Kyrie's guy who has given us a lot. And he himself said after the game last night. And there was draw sums it up pretty perfectly with the NBA with a little drama kyri is provided us with that Cairo has been opening and maybe a little too giving of his truth as I sit here and put the former athlete cap on and operate in that room that was something I was never fully comfortable with. I don't think the outside world deserves all of your truth. If you're moving now as a media member, I am truly appreciative of it. And I pray that kyri never stops with a lot of this. But for the continued development of Kyrie Irving, the leader. I am willing to admit that at times because of some of the flatter theory stuff. And because he's a guy who is a little more verbose when he gets the microphone in front of his face. I think it creates. An idea that probably isn't fair to the leader in the teammate. Kyrie Irving actually is or can be going forward because this at least demonstrate some ability to listen and learn you just hope it sticks. Like, this sounds good as number soundbite. Now, you gotta see the proof in the pudding. Now, you got to see a little less said in public at this point, a little more understanding of what this team actually may need behind closed doors, and we'll wait and see if they're going to get it first and last podcast. Indeed knows finding the right hire takes time away from your business. Hiring a qualified data engineer felt like a second job more job seekers use indeed than any other sites. So there's no better place to find someone with the skills. You're looking for I needed someone with a masters in computer science and database experience. Plus indeed screener questions up you find your shortlist fast. Now, I'm back to having just one job could a fifty dollars credit to give your first job. Posting premium placement at indeed dot com slash credit. Terms, conditions qualities. Awards and usage limits apply. Additional terms online first. And last the podcast another thing that we've seen obviously happened. A lot more frequently in college football lately. Was the idea of players sitting out in their bowl games? We've seen it over the years going back to Christian McCaffrey and let her for net from a couple of years ago. Judy and clowney was a guy who people floated and said he should sit out his entire last season in college after the hit heard around the world against Michigan in the outback bowl that year. And that's become more popular, especially as the college football playoff has rendered certain games air quotes meaningless when it comes to the national championship picture, the postseason bowl game picture, all these different things. And I've understood it obviously in these instances of a player with a one game threshold to the millions of dollars. They have worked so hard for saying, I wanna make sure I get across this line safety now with take it to a different sport and take it to a different level. That's what's got he Pippen wants to do NBA hall of Famer who is on the jump yesterday with Rachel Nichols. And Tracy McGrady who says he looks at Duke Zion. Williamson with this same set is who says a guy who is a virtual lock to be the number one overall pick should think about sitting out. Now here was Scotty yesterday on the jump definitely going to be the number one pick. I mean, I think he's done enough for basketball college basketball that is is more about him. Person now. And I think for him was a young player that I would shut it down. I let me let me. Let me actually. I would stop playing because I feel that he could wrist a major injury that could really hurt his career football players are doing it. Why not to college football players are skipping a bowl games. And they're getting ready for to come by. If I was him. I know him lease NBA, I'm outta here. Shut it down. I might go junior here on ESPN radio and the ESPN app. Now, I understand what a lot of people will say is this is the slippery slope. You always wanted as football players. Now, it's I would I would begrudge that. Yes. If you want to try and construct that argument, you can say, well, you guys let this Pandora's box open up when you came out here and all condone these players sitting out bowl games. Now. I can do the thing where we point out the obvious differences in a lot of these where there is still a lot for this Duke basketball team to play for the season as a national championship hopeful for a group of kids to accomplish something in college that everyone is competitors. Does cut it that basketball is a far less violent sport and one with far less risk of violent injury. In the way that we see in its football counterpart, those inherent differences are seen in a number of ways manifest themselves in a number of ways, and both the pro and college level. But again, this is also about what I've always said. And this is the one thing that has been consistent throughout this. Which is this decision belongs to. Each player in each player alone. So if Zion did come out. Say I don't feel like playing the rest of this year. I want to shut it down as much as I may not understand that decision. I find it really hard to criticize someone who comes out wants to protect what they believe they've got coming to them. We already deal with a one and done rule in college basketball that we think is dated at this point that we would like to see done away with we would like to see these players with the ability to go into mmediately earn for a skill set that we know and have seen already can translate this quickly and already works at the level that Zion is operating at. But ryen russillo who host the ryen russillo show podcast that you can check out on the ESPN app. And apple podcasts brought up an interesting point. And all this yesterday talking about Zion Williamson again, the idea that he should sit out the rest of his freshman season at Duke. I don't know if it's because none of us that do there are so many of us that do this getting play in any games than anybody ever cared about. But I would I would think if I were that good of an athlete to be duped into be somebody that could be potentially number one pick like I would I would love play. In the ACC. I would love going thinking about these two games with North Carolina that maybe again in the NCAA tournament. Maybe have a chance to go to the final four. Maybe I have a chance to win most outstanding player, and we're doing this thing where it's almost like we want these kids TV to be more selfish because the system is messed up, but we're also eliminating like just some common realities of of loving to get the opportunity to go out and put on a uniform and do this and compete and being accurate and and show off and beyond TV like that. That's awesome, man. That's awesome. First and last here on ESPN radio and the ESPN app. I think the thing that stuck out to me most about what Ryan says there is we want them to both sides of this argument. Always reek of this is what I want this young person to do with their body their future earnings their lives, and it comes from a place where we look at an eighteen year old than we say an understand because we were all eighteen once and understood. And we're largely dumb when we're eighteen or at least I can speak from personal experience. I was largely a moron when I was eighteen. And so the idea of making a lot of these decisions seems outside us, but we have kids that are growing up faster now in the world of sports and a lot of ways where so much of this is introduced you at a younger age where the business of sports has seeped into for better or for worse, but without question into college athletics. And in some cases into high school athletics in ways that we may not be comfortable with in ways that ninety nine percent of the population. We'll never understand because they never live. But it doesn't change. The fact that guys are more capable of thinking about decisions in this way. But that is their thought and their decision. And so we can want them to do any number of things like Ryan pointed out there playing basketball Duke might be thrilling experience for Zion. Williamson who is healthy at this point. He's not dealing with an injury the way Nick Bosa dealt with at Ohio State this year the forces you to make some of these decisions a little sooner than. You might want to an Ohio State team that had a lot to play for. But unfortunately, when those things but up against each other to close Nick Bosa did decide that after seeing a number of recent examples where it did hurt guys. I'm going to go and do what's in the best interest of myself and my career for Zion? Those things aren't there right now for Zion. This seems to be a kid who's enjoying this right now who is the best show in college basketball who continues to get a tension and education, and all of these things that man is an athlete. That's the drug that you cut it. That's the rush. Those are all the things that might be valuable to him. And we don't know. So he could come out tomorrow and say, you know, what Scottie Pippen's, right, I'm done. And I have a hard time disagreeing with him. But I have a hard time sitting here right now trying to tell him to do just the opposite. Because I sit here with the benefit of experience. And well, this is how you should live your life. Because of that, even though it's your life with problems and things going on the I don't know that I can't reconcile with. And so forth. I Williamson we continue to watch him ball Duke, and he'll probably go on and still be the number one pick and all these things, and we can have all these points about how in sports we can let this fear of injury. Rob us of all of these different things. And why play any games at all? After a certain point. But the end of the day the bottom line is it always comes down to an individual decision and trying to influence otherwise in that ends up seemed like hustling backwards first. And last podcast. We got tweets coming in the one eight hundred flowers dot com Twitter feed at ESPN radio and Adam goal of junior, Fifty-seven Scottie Pippen NBA hall famous Zion. Williamson Duke star Duke freshman sensation should shut it down. Should sit it out to get ready for the NBA Michael Riley says if Pippen said that about the Jones kid, I could have made sense out of it. Trae Jones injured in the last game for Duke and their loss against Syracuse. And this is similar to what I said about Nick bozo. From Ohio State. He's a guy. Who was injured during the year had that abdominal injury in their game against TCU, and then because of the time line and that injury decided he was gonna shut it down to prepare for the draft Zion. And listen that's not to say that Zion could want to get out ahead of that all these different things, but shameless fifty one fifty tweets, and I remember throwing shade of Ben Simmons when he didn't play for the last few games or in the tournament for LSU if Zion quit now he would lose a lot of fans there. I'm going to disagree with you first and last Michael junior here on ESPN radio and the ESPN app, we're presented by progressive insurance. And we are joined now on the shell Pennzoil performance line by Gordon Damer ESPN ninety eight point seven FM. We're brought to you by Pennzoil synthetics taking synthetic motor oil performance to a whole new level. Make the switch to Pennzoil synthetics today because I don't think Zion would lose a lot of fans. Gordon, I think Zion Williamson to be chose to shut it down. Today would have a lot of jubilant New York. Knicks fan potentially looking at the health and wealth of their future. Maybe hopeful star in. That Knicks blue and breathe a deep sigh of relief were they not while as long as they get it. Right. I mean, he might lose some fans in the in the time being from one of the tournament starts to whenever Duke is out or wins the title until the draft comes along. But if he does wind up as a knick after that draft pops up, no he'll gain a whole lot of new fans, and they won't care anything of whether or not he sat out the tournament play the game if he sat on the sidelines and ate popcorn they wouldn't care as long as he comes to New York. And at this point with the Knicks season being what it is anything less than getting that number one overall pick will feel like a disappointment. Absolutely. And it feels like I'm sure for James doing anything less than getting Zion. Williamson who we can debate the merit of the baseball. Are the basketball players atop this draft class for the NBA upcoming Zion is without a doubt, the most exciting and the guy that would certainly bring the most buzz to the New York Knicks, regardless of what other needs might present. If you talk and look at the prospect of a healthy, Kristaps porzingas and this guy in the court in the same time. I have to imagine that's the draw to Matt. Madison Square Garden that people are looking for. Oh, and look the Knicks are planning to have a big off season this year. And if everything were to go, right? It would include a premier free agent. Maybe a Kevin Durant or someone along those lines getting the number one pick and drafting Zay on and then getting Kristaps Porzingis back and healthy and away you go at this point. I think that it might even get as much as getting Kevin Durant. Clearly would excite the fan base having that premier star in the analyst optimism and hope that someone like Zion. It's almost like there's nothing that he can't do right. There's just this idea of potential unlimited potential that that might actually get the fan base more fired up than even someone like a premier superstar like Kevin Durant talking to Gordon Damer on the shell Pennzoil performance line. Here you can hear them taking over at the top of the hour on ESPN radio ninety eight point seven FM in New York, and so a unlimited potential there. But the current state of the Knicks is one that. Interesting and we talked about this coming on air. It's remarkable that we're going to talk about that. And and his canter in these same body of a segment who now has Turkish prosecutors seeking international arrest warrant for him accusing him of being a member of a terror organization. Gordon, what is as the situation looked like from the ground floor in New York for a guy and his canter who we know has been publicly outspoken against the Turkish president and all these different things involved in this city won't travel to London with the team for the game. That's going on this week. What have you made of this whole situation while I mean, the first thing is, you know, maybe it's just the day and age that we live in with Twitter being able to get your thoughts out as as a mmediately when things happen that we don't really maybe take some foresights kind of sit back and let things play out at actually analyze things before we get our thoughts out there. But it does feel like in a world where we just kind of blow f- every single thing up. To be the biggest thing in the world. This probably should be a far bigger deal than it is like it's getting attention right now because the Knicks are in London, and they're gonna play the wizards and Kanter is not with them. But this story has kind of been out there for a while. And it's one of those things that popped up from time to time, but has never really been the center of focus that it probably should be. So that's the one thing that kind of jumps out to me that you know, it's been out there for a while. And in a world where we just kind of blow up everything up to be the biggest deal in the world. This really is a big deal, and it's not gotten the attention to probably deserves. No, it's first and last Michael junior here on ESPN radio and the ESPN app talking to Gordon Damer, I think you're absolutely right in day and age where so much of what we have done in talked about on US soil has been about players using their voices and being activists and advocates for social causes a guy speaking out against the president of a country where he believes that wrongs are being done and doing so so much to the level that he. You know holds himself back from a work trip because of fear for his life. You're right doesn't seem to be drawing. I think the appropriate level of at least discussion for someone who has been this outspoken in this critical of his home government. And when you hear the idea that, you know, the the Knicks trying to put out there that this is a visa issue. And he's saying no, I fear being assassinated that feels like a level that we haven't seen yet. Yeah. I mean, we blow everything up in sports terms, right? We make everything out to be life and death this to him. This is he actually fears for his life. I mean, that's not a conference we use that maybe sometimes and make things out like, it's life and death. But no this to him is actually life and death. He just said he's worried about being assassinated. That's not generally a conversation that we have in terms of sports, and the fact that we're having it here, again, this is a story that's out there for a while. It's kind of we knew that the Knicks are going to have this trip to London at a canter probably was not going to go. But when you actually take a look at the words that are being used to describe it. It's a far more serious thing that almost anything else that we talk about in a sports context. Yeah, you're right. When we were used to sports, we're not used to words like INTERPOL and read. No. And all these terms that were looking up this morning to try and digest this situation that we will hopefully be keeping better tabs on going forward. First and last talking to Gordon Damer on the shell Pennzoil performance line. You can hear him take over at the our top of the hour here. Gordon, we heard from Jeff passan on the Michael case show the other day talking about the Yankees and there continued involvement around the world of Manny Machado about a minute left. What can you tell us about the latest with New York and one of the marquee free agents as offseason, you know, it's funny Mike when we when the first the off season I got underway. We run polls on our show every day just a Twitter poll, it's chided gauge what the site Geist is that day when we first started in the off season. It was about Manny Machado do Yankee fans want Manny Machado end at the time. It was pretty universal that no. They did not after the whole thing with the World Series the effort questions all those things the price tag. But as the player has remained out there and the price tag, seemingly at least, according to this report from either BUSTER only, or Jeff passan seems pretty reasonable things are starting to come around. And I don't think even with the moves the Yankees have made. I don't think that it's it's a an incredible impossibility that he still is on the Yankees radar. Great stuff as always you can check him out taking over the top of the hour here. Gordon? Thanks for the time, rather always thanks my first and last podcast, first and last podcast got college transfers in the world of football, an expedited process that we don't have to go through again. Now, it's nice when the public outrage machine doesn't have to get all revved up to do the same things and have the same conversation. We have had pretty much on a yearly basis at this point surrounding transfer restrictions and rules in college football these things. Worked themselves out rather quickly. Now, one high profile example of that going out at a college football playoff team. And another example of coming in in a way, that's become par for the course. And as people lament the nature of transfer rules in college football, I'm looking around and starting to wonder why. Because man, it is made for some pretty compelling action. And overall I feel like it's worked out for everybody involved. We'll get to that in a little bit plus advice from a hall of Famer for one of college basketball's biggest stars that a lot of people in my mentions are having a difficult time digesting, but. Championship weekend. The NFL coming up guys. I don't know if you heard pretty exciting stuff. We had Trey wingo. Top-five offense if weapons yesterday on golick and wingo that we take you up to every Monday through Friday, six to ten AM eastern. We had that yesterday. Previewing some of the stars you'll see on display in championship weekend. And for us. It's nice because it's a pair of rematches from the season two incredibly high scoring offense. Yvonne, riddled rematches between the saints and the chiefs in the AFC or excuse me the chiefs and the patriots in the AFC and the saints in the Rams in the NFC. Patriots in the chiefs who combined for eighty three points in the regular season matchup and the Rams and the saints that can find for eighty in their regular season matchup when we said we got the four best offense teams in football. We meant that. So in honor of that coming up, it's Thursday. We wanna read the engine a little bit always said, we get the opportunity training for the combine they always tell you when you're training for your forty yard dash at the combine that the couple of days leading up to it in your training. You want to get to about ninety percent on that last training day where about ninety percent of what you think you're going to run them at forty. You're putting it out there. You're getting great effort. And then you dial it back a little bit. So we're going to try and hit ninety percent. And then dial it back in we're going to try and crescendo and peak at the right time here Thursday leading into Friday. So it's time for a little not not football at five. We don't have our yells from before too. I miss those. We've lost all our Sounders on the board here we used to have those guttural football yells. So that's about as good as gonna do for you first. And last Michael junior here on ESPN radio presented by progressive insurance with insurance for cars. Home boat, motorcycles, RV's and commercial vehicles at one eight hundred progressive and progressive dot com and our matchup in the NFC is going to afford me to opportunities one. Is to dispel popular myth by agreeing with will Cain, which is not something that happens often around here and as much as I enjoy will. We tend to come at things from opposite sides on a lot of things. But today, I actually feel like there is common ground for us. And to it's to revisit one of the better sound bites and beasts from the NFL this season. If you remember from this first matchup the first time around Sean Payton hinted at a match up of the enjoy with Michael Thomas and Marcus Peters. The Rams quarterback the end Marcus Peters, basically telling Sean Payton to keep that same energy, then indicated they might share some Gumbo. After all the fisticuffs are done, Marcus Peters. The Rams cornerback who will have the benefit of a keep to leave across from him in that defensive backfield tried to downplay a little bit of that. When he was asked about it. The other day, I'll see all trying to make it to be something that is not man all respect to Sean Payton, and what he does like you say before during the game, you know, things having I just love the fact that he's a competitor. You know when I was coming on draft stuff. It was the same way fiery. Edgy when I was mean when move things like that. So it wasn't nothing to be disrespectful. Anything like that? I was pissed off. I didn't have a game that I wanted to have coming into this week. You know, you've gotta be excited about these matches and things like that. But we're going to give them all respect that we can't. 'cause they not number one C C for a reason. So no, I means just competitive as me. See everyone trying to butter up this time of year where you want to give anybody every bit any bit of extra when they're looking at their bulletin board for the playoffs because Sean Payton's doing the same thing on the other side, man, they're playing real good football. They had a great season. Last week was an impressive win real oppressive wind considering the opponent in Dallas all year long. We felt like it was one of the one of the top defenses. And those guys did a real good job in that game. Defensively. They they did a good job. They've always been at the top in our league in the kicking game. There'll be great channel. They, you know, a real good atmosphere. Good environment in two football teams. I'll come on talk about Gumbo and beating each other up again, this has gotten boring in a hurry. So. Going to talk about and make the one point that I wanted to and all this coming off a game where the Rams in this matchup where we look at the Rams rushing for two hundred seventy three yards in their win in the divisional round the easy. Look is going to be rushing stats for the Rams in wins and losses especially against a saints defense that we know doesn't give up much on the ground. Having allowed one hundred yard rushers since week eleven of last season. But are going to be without Sheldon rankings one of the great defensive tackles that busted up achilles from their game against the eagles. Devastating loss for them up front, and we get this stats. That's like this. The Rams rush for a postseason record two hundred and seventy three yards net. Winning the Cowboys average four yards per rush before I contact all these different things the Rams this season or the Rams I should say with Jared Goff are seventeen to know with golf is the starting quarterback when they rushed for at least one hundred and twenty yards eight and fifteen when they can't crack that threshold that is a reminder. And I bring up we'll came because yesterday on the wo- show. I heard him talking about the most valuable commodity in the NFL is adapt to -bility. And I heard Dan Orlovsky talk on his show about having a run pass ratio matters a lot less than your ability to give out touches to your offense of weapons, and I've heard this echoed by offense of coordinators that I respect which is this idea. We're trying to figure out how to get the ball in the hands of our best playmakers. And it's a reminder that rushing stats like this archaic because it is not about hitting some sort of threshold to say, all right? We gotta give are running back a certain amount of touches because we have to get to a hundred and twenty yards in order to win. Is that running is usually a byproduct of winning which then I hope by now that we figured out that if you're rushing for this kind of yardage. You're probably running out the clock in the fourth quarter because your offense of weapons got you the necessary yardage and point totals. So I hope we're viewing this through that proper ledge, which is not that rushing begets winning, which is that winning begets rushing. And however you. You get there is dictated by not only what you do. Well, but what your opponent does? Or does not do well, which brings us to. The AFC championship game. The patriots, Patrick Mahomes and the Kansas City Chiefs versus Tom Brady and the New England Patriots. And all this one seems to be centered around weather for this game. Where you got the kid from playing his college football in Lubbock, Texas asked if weather will affect this game in his mind. I think the weather doesn't make any difference in how these fans are gonna come out this weekend. Honestly, I mean, I know this stadium's going to be rocking. And I know these fans are going to enjoy this as much as we are trying to go out there. And when they of see and bring Lamar hunt trophy back. You've got that on one side. And you get a guy going through his first round of the playoffs. Patrick mahomes. All he's hearing from the outside is how much these things the first time around or going to affect him. So of course, he's going to deflect of course, he's going to be deferential here. Seamless transition to the patriots. I don't know why chose to use that one mostly because I'm sick in the head Tom Brady the veteran in this scenario gave a little bit of a different answer. Talking about the weather Biegel factor for a guy who has the benefit of all these experience playing cold weather games in Foxborough in the like in the postseason, whether the factor anytime, you play in January, these colder climates and Kansas City. Obviously a cold climate. They're used to it. And we've been practicing it for last two months. It hasn't been extreme cold. But it's been cold enough to know, you know, what you gotta wear, and you know, how you gotta deal with it. The best way you can you know, I played a lot of games over the years where where whether the factors. So you know, you just dress for it. And and, you know, hopefully, our bloods thickened up enough here being in the northeast to deal with some of the cold, which I think it has an even days like this to today, they're Kohl's. And they do a good job. Preparing you, it'll be colder Sunday that's been any point this year. So have a little mental toughness little physical toughness, and you know, just deal with the best. You can't I on ESPN radio and the ESPN app. Again, you see the difference between the rookie and the vet even though Mahomes is a second year player. I understand that is the ability to address the situations in the. Ability of the situations and the reality I look at is this the Kansas City Chiefs. I thought they were going to stumble in a cold weather environment against a physical football team. It was going to be last week against the Indianapolis Colts who were as hot as any team in football who are built to try and ground and pound you up front in a way that the patriots had success with last week against the Los Angeles chargers. And so one could make a lot of connections there. But I think the chiefs defense has been playing much better of late than the impression that we had during the regular season with this group. I think they dispelled a lot of the worries I would have had about them playing being able to rush being able to make the same plays downfield in a cold weather environment. And so we're not ready to make picks yet. But we know whether being the ultimate fact in this one I don't think nearly as detrimental to the chiefs causes people would want us to believe in a match up with the patriots team and Tom Brady quarterback team that has sort of made their legacy in environments like this. All right. We'll taste the not football game. We got a peek at the right time with the stuff championship weekend. Arm yourself now. Thank you for listening to first and last podcast. You can listen in subscribe to all ESPN podcast in the listen tab of the ESPN app. First and last.

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LeBron James at PG, Kawhi inks 3-year deal, Is Westbrook on the move?, Kyrie Irving, Will Zeke lead NFL in rushing?

First Things First

52:10 min | 1 year ago

LeBron James at PG, Kawhi inks 3-year deal, Is Westbrook on the move?, Kyrie Irving, Will Zeke lead NFL in rushing?

"Good morning and welcome to first things first. I'm John Wolf Vets Thala famous Chris Carter this right here. Nick right basketball is over basketball. Drama is not ah Miami seems to think Ross is a perfect fit for the heat. Hold off on assuming you know what the Lakers will look like next season says the head coach but we're going to start this morning with one Co.. I Leonard the two-time Finals M._v._p.. Has reportedly quarterly signed a three year deal worth one hundred and three million dollars with the clippers turned a few heads who assumed in reporting he'd probably signed for four years. The last year reveals a player option so that means that in twenty twenty one coup why it could be a free agent again if you choose it also means his contract now matches up without of new teammate Paul George Star Review. What does this contract tell you about Leonard's future well? We found out a lot when qui- was a free agent. We found out a number of things that were quite surprising for. One is how aggressive he was as far as recruiting other players star players to be able to play with them had conversations with Kevin Durant had conversations Kyrie Irving convinced Paul George to we ought to get traded to the clippers so we do know that I'm not surprised by the short term contract because he he has to be a free agent once he reaches ten years tenure in the N._B._A.. It wouldn't have made sense. People thought ought that only the Toronto Raptors could sign him to a short short term deal. He signed anywhere else. It was going to be a long term deal so he wants to be a free agent on that tenth year. You have to be from a strategy standpoint because your salary Jerry jumps at that point and you know Kawai wants to leverage to be able to move and or have leverage over the club that's why he signed that two and a one year after the ten year tenure. He's just finished his eighth season. He's going to be a free agent again. I think it has more to do with him and controlling what he wants to do. And the constant pressure he can keep one the organization if they decided to change coaches doc rivers he would have a say so about that but ultimately intimately to up to recruit other players to build a come to the clippers it gave him the leverage and the flexibility to do what he wants to do. Money and power is what this is about. The money is what Chris talked her out there that just the way the collective bargaining agreements. It's written you can get a bigger percentage of the salary cap the biggest percentage once you've been the league ten years so that's why the two plus one instead of the three plus one but more notably than the money is the power the power to continue to hold a bit of a vice grip on new organization because the clippers no this now they in theory could lose Paul George and Kawhi Leonard after the twenty twenty one season and they do not have control over their drafts starting starting in twenty twenty two twenty two twenty three twenty four twenty five twenty six those five years okay see either has their picks outright whereas pick swap so you you damn sure better make sure quite Leonard Tapping happy. You Damn sure better mixture. Paul George is happy and you're competing for championships and this is the new N._B._A.. Then we are going to be on a constant cycle of this free agent classes great but the one a couple years from now is going to be even better because guys are not signing five year deals Yes qui- will be eligible in two years for a four year hundred ninety six million dollar contract but what makes anyone think he'd sign that and give up that power as opposed wait to plus one hundred forty four hundred and forty five million dollar contract. This is people thought Lebron was the outlier cycles one plus ones in Cleveland eventually to plus one in Cleveland that is not going to be the outlier that is going to be more the norm for a select few four first and second team all N._B._A.. Caliber players because it keeps the pressure on the franchise to never take a step back to never be worried the luxury tax to never go back on the promises that were made to Kwai in the recruitment phase. was there something though to those that thought he should have signed a long term deal that he he's had had a little bit of history with injury. Maybe this is a guarantee for for longer years ears and a guarantee for for more money and stability to a guy that did miss some time because of injury what would it speaks to. He's not worried about getting hurt because if he was worried about getting hurt he would sign the maximum number of years that you could but where he is right now he's. He's very very comfortable but you gotta give yourself the flexibility if you're not concerned about your health John Wall John Wall did the smart thing. He signed that long term contract. We got Dane there in Portland. He just signed a long term contract. I I can understand if a guy did that but Kawhi with his tenth year two years away he's got to give himself the flexibility because not arm on not only are him in Paul George not only the current team that they have but they're going going to be the future they know draft picks like only way you can add through them bill to keep these and when they go out recruit other guys to be able to come to Los Angeles to be able to play with them because you can pretty much guarantee that they're going to be there but people should also understand once he pick the clippers the the longest contract he could sign would have been a three plus one. This is a two plus one so it's not as if he could have signed a five year deal with the clippers because they were not the incumbent team but it does mean twenty so the twenty twenty free agency in classes a very weak one in twenty twenty one if players exercise their options if guys don't sign early extensions the following guys are free agents. Jaanus Kawai Lebron Paul George Blake Griffin Bradley Bill Rudy Gobert C._J.. mccollum Victor Oladipo go down the list. It's eighties a third of the top twenty players in the league and then some and that is listen the League Adam silver can talk about the owners not liking hiking the level of pressure. The players can put on an organization okay the the way around this is one of these two were both of these to allow for seven or eight year contracts the way you used to because it's one thing to say ah I'll give up one year of guaranteed money to be able to exert pressure. It's another thing to say I'll give up four years of guaranteed. It'd be able to exert pressure or remove the individual player maximums remove the have someone be able to offer a player sixty percent of the CAP and thirty five percent of the gap but as the C._B._S. currently written it's in the players interest if their top player in this league to go short term deals and continued at be able to put the screws to the team. You can't possibly have any doubt that Jerry West won't be able to keep these guys. Do you think Leonard wants to stay with the clippers wants to be a clipper for longer than two years. Jerry whistled to be alive. Jerry West is no no young guy wants to be a clipper but it doesn't make sense for him to sign a three and a one a four year deal doesn't make sense doesn't make sense as far as where he is. He just finished his eighth season. You know you've got that big. Jump Coming after your number ten and the flexibility like we were shocked to how Kawai recruited the other players to be able to come there that will continue in him being able to say hey man. I'm going to be a free agent. I can be a free agent. I can opt into the contract. I can sign long-term. That's what other guys are looking and he can kind of help. Control that roster and you WANNA be able to make sure the team doesn't at some point we saw the Miami Heat all of a sudden tail into Lebron's time they're all we're not going to bring Mike Miller back. One avoid the luxury tax. We saw the Cleveland Cavaliers another Lebron example the one year he didn't have the ability to opt out of a deal. They don't bring back David Griffin. We we know that when co I was meeting with the Lakers the clippers the raptors there were certain demands he made certain requests he made about what his load manager would be about the medical medical staff about how the team was going to treat him once you sign the contract if they renege on that there's nothing you can do is specially. If you've signed for the maximum number of years this now ensures the team has to keep it. Moving on to a guy does not struggle in the N._B._A.. His name is Lebron James Place for the Lakers last week. It was reported that Lebron would be two teams defacto point guard next season from there up plethora of potential Laker lineups for this team. We're throwing around this was all before we heard from the head coach yesterday at summer. League play Frank Vogel was asked about his team's lineup. Here's what he had to say. There is no decisions made on our starting England of <hes> no imminent plan to start around at the point guard spot <hes> a lot of different nominee lineups and combinations have this have been discussed but it's really way too early for any of that <hes> he'll be a primary ball handler <hes> in our system the same way he has been <hes> his entire career but we're certainly not gonna ask them to do anything that he hasn't done his entire career so <hes> you know it's going to be a situation. I'm just putting all our guys in the in the best position to have success on the basketball court and look afford for ought to take the place at the right time nick everything you just heard all that being said you still think that Lebron should be the Lakers starting point guard next season. Yes then that's their easy decision that that's not the complicated one Lebron should be in. We'll be their starting point guard because they don't have in twenty nineteen a starting caliber point guard on the roster Rondos not that anymore win. Cooks never been that crucial was a nice story a guy that you didn't know it was going to make the team ended up playing some decent minutes form last year but Lebron's their best option and we maybe we should just get out of saying starting point guard and like the coats it the primary ball handler because if you look at Steph curry we know de Ngelo Russell. He's going to be the point guard. STEPH CURRY IS GONNA play off the ball. It's the difference difference between running office. Screens Lebron the number one skill. He has outside of his body. Being incredible is his ability to be able to see the basketball his basketball I._Q.. And Lebron has even going back in the past and watch N._B._A.. Video Games to watch where guys like to shoot. He looks at Guy Stats. Where do they like the ball? What's their dominant hand when they like the drive when they're coming off the pick and roll those things Lebron you can take advantage oh if he's on the ball in the primary ball handler in offense if he's not then you don't get that advantage if you don't if you don't have a `nother competent high level guard and so but here's the complicating weighting factor? It's not who's GonNa start at the one for the Lakers because that'll be Lebron. It's the five position in the trickle down from there because I throw out a bunch of lineups that involved anti starting at the five and I got two separate text messages from two separate people saying Anthony Davis is not going to start the season at the five. Maybe in the playoffs maybe at the end of games but stop saying he's going to be the starting center. Even though you think you should be the starting center not going to have both those texts them so no no. Oh it's no no I told him on the air but usually that you that you said he's been on the record and inconsistent I do not WanNa play doesn't WanNa play center and my argument was okay what you want. What's best for the team or two separate? Things turns out what Anthony Davis wants lease. What I'm being told is going to be at least how they start the season so if Lebron just starting point guard you're going to have a center whether that's Travailler boogies? One of them's going to start who cares who justice center then Anthony Davis you also Danny Green's starting that leaves you one position. Now people are going to say well obviously Kuzina well is it obviously coups mma if it is who's guarding the opposing team's point guard and is there enough enough shooting out there because Danny Green's and knockdown shooter but Kuzina last year was a bad three point shooter he would have to get back to rookie or three point shooting Kyle Kuzma and even then is that enough shooting does Davies caldwell-pope find his way into the starting lineup. Would it'd be a there's no way he's going to start. Would it be Bradley. Is there any chance Kuzma's coming off the bench to run that unit. If not then you have a question about. Are you GonNa ask Danny Green Jor best wing defender the guy who should be guarding the other teams best wing just start the Games guarding the other teams point guard the if you have Lebron Anthony Davis and a center all in your starting lineup and Lebron's the point guard. You're going to have a big lineup and some of that shooting the Lakers acquired in this off season is going to have trouble getting on the court see yeah. I mean ultimately as far as the center position. I didn't think it was as complicated as people were trying to make it out. boogie cousins developed McGee when they go to training him whoever plays the best Boogie says his his quad completely healed. I believe he's a lot better player than what we saw in the playoffs. You made a point say he didn't come back in the playoffs. Would you be more excited about boogie cousins being the center for the Lakers if you didn't see him where he couldn't jump over over a pizza box right after forcing himself back because you gotta give him credit for that you can't you can't on one hand say you know I want athletes to build a try to push themselves which boogie cousins did because originally they thought he was done for the season and then he comes back push themselves all against him and he looks bad and then we hold it against them so I've Lee boogie cousins should be the starting center now as far as three point shooting. I believe boogie cousins. We'll shoot above twenty seven percent he did last year here. I believe Anthony Davis will shoot better than he did last year and Lebron so you just have to get some of that three point production to bill spread to court to keep teams honest by your bigs. You don't have to always have small guys on the court that are stretching stretching court we saw that with Shannon fry when learning channing Frye when he was there in Cleveland a great example of Pick and pop a big guy who'd been stretched to court just like smaller guys make me on us. You Trust that guy right there to make all these decisions decisions that no one seems to be able to find a good starting five for this team that Guy Frank Vogel this is where his jobs very difficult and this is where had they gotten Qui- not only would they have three of the top seven players in League but the coaching job it would have been way easier. You have three superstars that are going at least two of them are going to be on the court at all times and then you have minimum level players and buyout guys that fill out the rotation now. You've got a roster where you probably have eight guys who think they should be starting. You who have of Kuzma Khun Davies caldwell-pope Avery Bradley three guys who all have been starters in their career coups mma who's making the least money but is the Best Player K._C._p._T.'s making the most money but arguably is the worst player Bradley lose the best defender win healthy and his team needs that skill set out there so you have one spot for those three players and there is a little bit of a mix and match here and that is what the beginning of the season is going to be about to a degree figuring out which lineups play well altogether and that's not even a mention regime Rondos a big personality and a guy that average eight assists per game last year when he did play when he was healthy just all of a sudden being eliminated from the starting line of which I by the way I think you should be eliminated from the starting lineup. Sure Rondo doesn't feel that way. Yes Frank Vogel even if Kawai signs with the Lakers we still got question marks about him today. I don't have as many question marks about other people. He's got a three year guaranteed so as far as pressure. I got two of the top six six players that don't seem like a whole bunch of pressure to me. They got a better bench than we thought they were going to be able to do because they waited on the Kawai sweepstakes so regardless if they act Kawai their people was still question Frank Vogel to me. It's a built in excuse. Let's blame it on the coach Lebron everywhere he's been. It's been questions about the Cote. He's never had a great coat tie. Lou People didn't have no hell of a confidence in Thai Lue they got confidence after Lebron and Kyrie and that team put together a special run Frank Vogel. He's GonNa be on the hot seat all year not just because Jason Kids. They're not because Lionel Holland's is there no but because it's an easy excuse excuse if guys don't play well if they don't shoot the ball will be. We're going to blame it on the coach. It's easy. I just think the players in the N._B._A.. They control things a lot more than the coach does so we want to blame someone. Oh list blamed the coach compared to look guys out there in the uniform and realized that you know something they control their own. Faith is hard to stay in shape. You make twenty million. Housi- What are you GONNA do. Stay say start your morning yesterday. It was revealed that Kawhi Leonard signed a three year. Joe were the hundred and three million dollars with the clippers many thought he'd time for four years. See what you make of new deal the and let you know that he has to be a free agent. After the ten years of service setting him up. He just finished his eighth year very very smart by his agent and quiet and his team. Let me know that it was on the board for him. Signing short term deals is a little miscommunication between me them as far as what is it going to be a long term because the general public thought that only a short term deal existed with the raptors he was not going to sign a long term deal with any team the and again people should understand as you mentioned in the longest he could assign with the clippers was was four which would have been a three plus one hands up signing a two plus one but it also keeps the scrutiny and the pressure on the Clippers not that bomber doc rivers in that crew wasn't going to do everything they could to win already but he has all George could walk out the door in two years and then the clippers would be left without their own dram no way no way twenty twenty two to twenty twenty six those five drafts okay see either has the picker as a pig swap so critical to season's coming up for the Los Angeles Clippers even more than we thought all right injury up day now and boogie cousins boogie cousins is injury free Boogie Torres Squad in the first round of the playoffs against the clippers he was able to come back and play in the finals but clearly he he wasn't fully healthy bogey now says his quote is one hundred percent healed all right nick what are fair expectations then for cousins next as well listen. I think Boogie can still be a guy that gives you at least fifteen in eight if he gets the minutes. It's available to do that if he plays twenty four twenty six minutes a game I I don't want to hold against him. What I saw in the finals it's hard not to but when we saw him terror squad and his second playoff game ever we thought that was going to be the last we ever saw aw with golden state he fought all the way back basically cut a month off the expected recovery time and then he looked really bad a lot of the time once we saw him back and that's your most vivid memory of Boogie but if he had not at fault all the way back seat we wouldn't have had that memory and we decided man? He was looking good the final month of the regular season. I'd like to afford him that benefit of the doubt but it is hard because it looked like he couldn't jump four inches off the ground in those N._B._A.. The best thing about him announcing he's one hundred percent now is we've got about two and a half to two and a half months until training camp opens. He won't be rehabbing this year last year. All he did was Rehab. Rehab workouts are totally different than I'm trying to get ready for endurance and trying to get ready to play an eighty two games scheduled to me. boogie cousins is the best value at three point five million in the league. Tell me tell me another player is good as him three point five. That's all you're paying for him so it's not like we're paying this guy ten or fifteen million those a lot of guys in the League making making ten million and they're not very good at basketball oddly just is going to be one of his better off seasons and he'll fit in with the Lakers well all right. Let's talk some football folks over at pro football focus said predicted that Ezekiel Elliott a win his third rushing title this season Zeke would be the I back to win three rushing tunnels in four seasons since Barry Sanders see things equally the league in rushing next season. I knew when he came into the League lead the League as a rusher for a number of years. He's the best runner that we have in football. Couple won. The best offensive line last couple of years offensive line hadn't been good. It's been Zeke more Zeke than them this year. They should be a little bit more healthy. Yes he's the best pure runner that we have you at Amari Cooper. You put Randall Cobb in the slot. This is the best offense that Ezekiel Elliott would've played on since his days at Ohio state and I wonder if that actually might prevent him from winning his third rushing title in four years because if the cowboys passing attack takes the steps forward that they hope it does with Amari Cooper being there for a full off season in the full year and the addition of Randolph causing not having to rely on most of the time it doesn't work that way if he leaves the League in rushing if their office can score in the red zone if they're one of the top five teams on third down conversions. That's how everyone's able to eat. I played on a lot of talented offenses and madame third downs become important. You know why because you get another three downs the bill to spread it around and in the red zone you gotta score score points. I wouldn't be surprised they scored twenty touchdowns well. That's what I was about to say is. I think what's more important than the cowboys is if he can lead the league in touchdowns rather than just rushing yards all right. Let's get finish up with some basketball. sixers currently have the second best odds needs to win the east behind the Milwaukee Bucks however philly forward James Zina's thinks that Philly is going to walk to the finals now. The Kurai is out west. You agree nick. Do you think the sixers are legit contenders for the finals next season so I do do not agree but I do absolutely think legit contenders with James and his said it's ridiculous like that's that's foolish comment. Who is the team? He's going to be their sixth man. I mean he he's bounced around the League play well in the playoffs but he is clearly at best. He's the fifth best guy on that team. He's probably the sixth or seventh best gone that team will see what Zaire Smith and John Richardson do for them this year but listen Philly is has the ability to be the best team in the Eastern Conference. I need to see the fit I need to see if they can be as dominant defensively as I believe they have the personnel to be. They are going to start one of the longest teams. We've ever one of the tallest teams we've ever seen start in an N._B._A.. Season when Josh Richard Richard Singer smallest guy when the median height of your starting lineup is six ten that is a long arm Al Horford into that absolutely right Al Horford is one of the smartest players in the league and even though is that led us is not very good. He can knock down shots and hand is an excellent all NBA caliber defender but the X. Factor for Philly and I'm sure crystal expand on it is of course going to be Ben Simmons. If Ben Simmons comes back better if Ben Simmons comes back to where he is not a liability ability at the end of games offensively and a liability in a playoff series didn't philly can go man for man with Milwaukee you even if you're honest is better than embiid embiid close enough that the rest of the roster for philly would outshine and Milwaukee has but that assumes something that I did assume you're one or two but I got burnt by it so I can't assume your to your three which is that Ben. Simmons expands his range a little bit. I was dead wrong after his rookie season. Saying of course you'll get better of course you'll get in the gym even doesn't have three point shot. They'll have mid range shot he didn't he was two of twenty five last year outside of sixteen feet so they have a clear ceiling in Philadelphia unless Ben Simmons improves no matter what James Innocence but because quite left they are without a doubt one of the two best teams in the Conference Yeah I. I don't like people `specially who don't have championship experience putting out these types of soundbites when now all the rest of the team they got to build vouch for the this is not about fit and Phil even though they've made some changes this is about two things one you mentioned as far as the fit with the players but it's not about the fit it's about fitness. <music> fitness and jump shot right Joel embiid and his fitness. Is he ever going to get himself in the top shape that that's not a detriment that he's not missing games missing time because he doesn't have an N._B._A.. WPRO diet cooking food. He's still eating Taco Bell. I got friends that see Joel Embiid a lot of times in Philadelphia. I'm not talking about at the basketball arena and Jolyon be and what he puts in his body that has been part of the issue now. He's hired someone. He's working with someone here in New York so that's the update on his body. He's doing something about that. What's the update on Ben Simmons Jump Shot then you guys get it? Then you guys see the video. No Oh that is update it. They know better you know the reason why the season been over with and he ain't put no video out there. There ain't no good video to put out there Jenna. It's a simple in the off season. That's when you are able to me. I used to break down my game with my. Coaches and say what are the weakest routes that I run in the passing tree because this off season those routes I will move up to be a priority. I won't even run the things that I'm very very good at and that's how the best players. We've we've ever seen in any sport. That's how the good become great. That's how the greats become legend and let me know when y'all see some video been simply because I'm sick and tired of my buddy over here appropriate. Oh yeah he's going to get to the gym or oh. You're a year ago. I said I learned my lesson on it. I listen I. I assumed he would do most blue chip young players. Tom Brady's out run the forty yard dash at forty two. You know the reason why because he won't you don't General I'm one of the best it's ever done it and no young kids going to take my spot Antonio. You think we ain't got nothing better to do but to show him up there on the bouncing ball with the goggles no because that's what you're supposed to do all right well. I Know Oh ben Simmons is the obstacle right now for for the sixers book ruin the other real x-factor Bianca's. I mean isn't Janas going to be the real x factor Milwaukee right now gets to go into the season as the clear favourite in the east because not only they had the best record but the team that knocked them out is now totally different quiet Leonard go to put the claw and you're honest and change that series so usually we would say hey you got to beat the champs but it's not that dissimilar to the cavs were four time defending garments champs last season. Did it seem like it no because Lebron left the team. They were different team. TORONTO WON'T BE THAT BAD but they will be different team but embiid is embiid is in that the top of that very next year of N._B._A.. Stars like Janas is in that top seven superstars superstars here embiid's at the very top of the next year Tobias Harris is Max Player. I think he can go out I with Chris Middleton Al Horford and go with Brook Lopez like their top of the roster matches up well and so the question is Ben Simmons Eric Bledsoe also blood so struggled in the playoffs but was not the liability that Ben Simmons was and we kind of know what we're getting from blood so if Ben Simmons improves then James Innes can be proven correct. They won't cakewalk silly comment if he doesn't then they will be limited especially against a team in the series as good defend. I'm willing to bet as a significant amount of money as far as Ben Simmons his percentages outside of ten feet and the three point line oh that's like a foreign country. Forget the three point line I mean he you'll never be able to shots outside of sixteen feet all year which seems impossible but also last year he only made two more south than me yeah true true. I only took twenty five. It's unbelievable. I moved onto things that we can infer from instagram. Postings stings yesterday on the Graham Russell Westbrook liked a picture of himself wearing a Miami Heat Jersey. Even though he's still a member of the o'casey thunder a new report says that they he willing to take on Russia's money and Russel's personality all right see how does Russ need to adjust his game moving forward if he wants to be more effective well the thing about it. Russ has got to play with some veteran players. You can't put Russ on a young team. Also you gotta put Russ with some guys that can shoot a basketball typically. You would think if he's going to be at their absolute best. They gotta be top ten defensive team. They got to be a team that plays with a lot of pays him and Steven Adams in the pick and roll very very effective but Russell's ability to go off to bounce get into the lane breakdown down the defense but when you have only limited shooters and if you look at the last several years since Katie's let they have not put the type of shooters that would help Russ develop his game last year you could see he deferred to Paul George. Paul George was playing spectacular but who else if they put around him. I'm not down shooters that Russ once he gets into the lane he's got viable options of digital out compared to shooting a much more difficult contested shot with Iran which is why Miami might feel like but we will do a better job than okay see is done at surrounding with talent we will be able to present him with another all star caliber player in Jimmy Butler already here player Jimmy Butler who a lot the people thought Jimmy Butler and Paul George were almost. We're nearly identical in like player rankings going into last season now. Paul George had a far better year than Jimmy Butler and Paul George Right now appears to be the better player than Jimmy Butler will see next season with George coming off the to shoulder surgeries but for us. It's really simple it is last year. It wasn't just as free throw shooting went to Hell. He's always been a bad three point shooter. Last year was his worst three point shooting year he's had since he's been a star and he's now in very rough company. He's the second worst high volume three point shooter in N._B._A.. History only Charles Barkley has taken two thousand plus threes in the N._B._A.. With the worst percentage Russ's now beneath guys like Jerry Stackhouse Allen Iverson and guys that we thought of as chuckers from three he's below thirty one percent from his career from three and he takes a bunch of them like you last year who's taken over five a gain. We've seen him shoot thirty four percent from a spurs season the year that he won the M._v._p.. Was Eighty five percent from the line or I think about thirty five percent from three if he's a guy that he is shown the ability to adjust the style in which he plays at at least a little bit within a season but last year didn't matter if you just the style because he was bad shooting everywhere the free throw line the mid range jump shot which used to be bread and butter that little elbow jumper that used to be as Goto shot and his three point shot was broken. If he's going to be successful he has to be in year twelve. There's going to be your twelve now. He has to be an adequate three point shooter. There is no way for a guard in the N._B._A.. At his age moving forward to be <music> a superstar in this league if you can't shoot the ball and Russ last year could not shoot the ball but he's still shot the ball so to me the there's the personality stuff how will fit in with a new team never been with a different organization Spoelstra Butler all that so put it really is Ken Russell Westbrook thirty four percent from three if he can he can still be a great player in this league if he's at twenty eight percent as he was a lot of last year and he's still shooting a bunch of them. That's the percentage draymond shot but he's shooting twice as many that's. That's a huge problem for whatever team he'd be a lot to ask someone to say you gotta get you gotTa. Go get back to your numbers that you were so go to a new team. Isn't it more realistic that they're going to have to say hey. You can't take this many shots. You'RE GONNA come here but you're going to have to reduce the number of shots you take and is he going to be able take that adjustment no. I don't believe that's realistic. I don't believe there's a whole bunch of people going to tell Russ you. GotTa Stop Shooting The basketball last season. No one had the ball more than Russ Ninety Times per game. He's got the ball only James Harden has the ball more amount of time time so for me. If you're not shooting it he could be a better distribute. The basketball cut down on his turnovers. He could be a better defender so there's a lot of things that Miami into switch there can be able to help them. Miami's one of the lease effective teams in the pick and roll even though they run about the same amount is okay see sponsored them have to build let him go and let him get his points early in the offense. Get a paste. It's a little bit faster. I believe Ruskin steel do that. At a high level compared to the half court offense to me. That's one of the big conflicts that you have with Russ. He's far more effective in open court than when they slow the ball down and he and the Oklahoma City thunder before the All star break he was playing well pool Georgia's playing while we were talking about. Could they get all the way to the two seat in the West and then fell apart once Paul George dealt with his shoulder injuries and rusk had a really bad stretch post all-star break if he can get back to just stylistically the way he was pre all star break and add a couple percentage points to his shot still be eh one of the best six guards basketball but that's what they betting on the trade this nick right from first things first and you have to check out this website pristine dot com pristine auction has daily auctions with one dollars. Starting bid authenticity is important too pristine auction perceived auction guarantees authenticity and it comes with authentication from the most trusted sources. Pristine auctions are affordable rebel. Most people don't think they can afford this stuff but it's much more affordable than you think. Addict Buck is signed Bears Jersey sold for just fifty six dollars in a Mike Tyson autographed boxing gloves sold for under a hundred bucks. It's quick. In free to register bidding is free and you only pay if you win US Registration Code F. T. F. Wind joining P. R. I. S. T. I N.. E. Dot Com and new users will receive you've a five dollar auction credit again. You'll get a five dollar auction credit when using Registration Code F. T. F. TO SIGN UP FOR PRISTINE DOT COM. That's P._R._I.. S. T. I n.. E. Dot don't come back here first things first with N._B._A.. Analysts Syracuse stock is great to see you. How's it going? It's you are testing me with really toss tossed. Drama combined yeah strong test you in the commercial break perform excellence. Let's talk some net Sarah. There were noticing the season of teams that were wary of signing Kyrie irving because of his leadership skills recently Brooklyn's head coach. Kenny Atkinson was asked about Kyri coach that he he doesn't want to prejudge him that he wants to have his best season ever. He also said you don't know a guy until coach him Sarah how will carry fit in Brooklyn. I believe it's going to be an excellent fit and similar to what Kenny Atkinson said you don't know until you have a guy in your gym every day playing with the rest of your team and the rest of the Rosser until you actually see how it melds together however Kyrie irvings coming in and I know that he got a bad rap in Boston but he had a season where he averaged twenty four seven five right around there shut forty percent from the three point line. He's one of the most talented and skilled guys with the ball in his hands the way he creatively finishes and this is a team that likes to get up and down they. I'd like to shoot a lot of threes they do share the basketball however we saw last year with Diangelo Russel the utilize the pick and roll they like to use ball screens. They use a lot of off ball action so all of that said with how talented Kyrie is offensive -ly fitting in with an already strong core of players everyone understanding their roles and the flip side of things. I know a lot of people focus on the defensive end. Guess who's going to be next to him. It's either going to be careful avert six seven Keira sliver with one of these strong defenders on the other end six Spencer Dinwiddie who is a talented defensive player along with being able to play on or off the ball shooters and Joe Harris big men Jared Allen and on top of all of this as we continue to talk about with Kyrie Irving he chose to play here. He's playing amongst friends. He's with people that he wants to be with. He's going back home so I think all of those things are what makes us the situation. That's going to be really advantageous and beneficial for both sides before I get into in my opinion on this. I think a lot of people that are watching have a much better idea of WHO Kyrie Irving is then who Kenny act gets an so Brad Stevens non-confrontational coach Tai Lue Not an overly confrontational coach his last two coaches David Blatt that was just swimming without goggles. WHO's trying to figure out what was what Kenny Atkinson I haven't watched? I haven't been up is up close and personal is you have but I've seen enough nets games enough games where he will get in your face. He will yell at a gun. Tell the audience about who he is and how you think that relationship could go Kenny Atkinson and I say this sang through and I won't divulge too much but being able to sit through practices watch the announce the day to day see how he is with guys. This is in a practice setting with the full team the skill workouts this is one on one individual were Kenny Atkinson is one of the most dedicated committed gritty guys at you will see as a coach but he's also fearless and how he interacts with players and he is going to treat everyone the exact same and you brought up the word confrontational and there's a reason why everyone on the Brooklyn Team Dangelo Russell being one of those who really was attracted to Kenny and the way in which he coached because he's a player's coach in a sense that he's going to do whatever it takes to get the best out of you but doing so in a way that he's going to get in your face and he may cuss you out and he may be someone who does things that you don't appreciate in the moment but at the end of the day you know how much he cares about you. He's one of the most sincere human beings and he loves you as a player so with all of that being said I to Kenny has got an excellent staff along with him that works with these players Kenny's out barefoot chasing rebounds and getting it he he's got his ankles tape in practice in with the guy's going through drills showing showing them things hands on so for all of those reasons. Is it going to be an adjustment period. Probably it is with every player but because of that I think the respect goes top to bottom with all the other players but I think for Kyrie Irving. He is going to have someone that that is as up close with him in it with him as he can find and I think at the end of the date he'll realize that what Kenny wants us for him to be the best player in and that is what any guy should want. We're GONNA have plenty eyeballs on Kenny accent as a head coach. He cut his teeth in Atlanta Organization in player development so this is how he coached. He's owned a court development players. Given guys drills the number one way to get a professional athletes attention is to make him better at something and that's how he's done that and that's why they selected him as a coach. That's why they have confidence in him. That's why you saw all their young players. Get so much better. The style for which they play at is conducive to Kyri getting better header not only do they have the Andre Jordan so he has someone to build a finish at the room because we can get into the pain. The LOB game is back open for him that hadn't been opened for him not when he was in Cleveland because they didn't have much guys play above the railway and definitely not in Boston they got better shooters in Brooklyn then he had with the Celtics so to court going to be more wide open. I just wished Kevin Durant was playing from day number one because I believe with him on the court we will see the best Kyrie that we've seen since we saw in that final so I do think the style for which them getting up and down this offseason becomes important for Kyri the most important one since Lebron went back to Cleveland will he get his the body in tip top shape because there were teams that looked at Kyrie and they were concerned long-term with his dedication not the basketball what does dedication to take care of his body and the coach made it clear yesterday. I'm giving him a clean slate right right. Even though we've done our research we know about Kyrie but I'm gonNA give them a clean slate in most coaches when you start like that it really gives the player a lot of confidence that he doesn't have to be perfect from day number. One KYRI did much better last year. Obviously when the Celtics six were winning and weren't they weren't losing you saw that in body language you saw that in post game press conferences now. You're going to have him starting on a team without Katy which means if this team goes bad. A lot of that pressure is going to be on Kyrie. It's GONNA be well. It was Kyrie's fault because Katie wasn't there. How do you think he'll be able to handle those? The bonuses on Kyrie did not only keep them afloat but to keep them going in this direction until Katie steps on the court for the first time. This is a team that if they adjust run it back given the fact that quite left the conference given the fact that there's uncertainty after the top two teams seems if they had made no changes brought back Angela Russell not signed Kevin Durant we said could the nets jump up to the three or the four seek right that would have been a discussion so it is Kyrie's job when they also add a De'andre Jordan and he's clearly on the downside but jared Allen's owns back Harrisburg. You hope be able to play the full season Spencer Dinwiddie six man of the year buzz like this is a good young roster if they are floundering if they are fighting dooby five hundred of course it's going to fall a number eleven hit and it should good now. I think Kyrie has the ability to be a great player in this league. We've seen it what we haven't seen him. Be is a great player as the best player for everything that comes with that responsibility everything that comes with that. He's is going to have to do that until Kevin. Durant comes out there and I'm excited to see it because we know how especially as we know there's not another player in the league with his specific set of skills and I think the Spencer Dinwiddie relationship really matters he was recruiting. Routing him all year Ella Draymond with Kevin Durant a few years ago there close friends we know how close he is with durant. He has a relationship with the Andre Jordan so does I don't think he had someone on the Celtics that when Kyrie was getting skew could grabby like April we need. We need your back here right now. And what you're doing is not working. I think they have that in and I think that that's the biggest factor you look out and you don't just point to one thing and I'm certainly not putting blame on Terry Rozier. Everyone plays a part of that but you had a guy I that was the backup to Kyrie irving that felt like he could have been the starting point guard. He was part of the reason that they went to the Eastern conference final. This is such a different situation and so that changes the entire complexion of during the ups the downs how I think the perspective and mentality of the some of the blame for Kyran Boston's not his fault Jason Tatum not being offense player wouldn't Kyrie's fall then. We have an all those forwards to try to get in that rotation. That's not his fault rozier wanting to be a starter get a new contract. That's not Kyrie's fault. We gave a lot of blame for what went on in Boston. That was not his fault. A lot of Danny Aines should assume some of that in Brad Stevens did not have a good year he should assume some of that blame and I just saw last year real quick Diangelo Russel being a guy that people said couldn't be a leader couldn't fit in was one of the most beloved guys that I've seen in a while in Brooklyn so I think it shows how you can bring a guy who now time finals has reportedly goodyear or the hundred three million dollars with the clippers turned a few heads who assumed he'd signed for four years the last year of the deals a player option so that means in twenty twenty one on quite could be free agent again. If he so chooses it also means his contract now matches up with that of new teammate Paul George say. What does this tell you about his feature? We'll for one. He wasn't is concerned about his health is some other people because if he was concern you go ahead and get that extra you get two extra years so one of the misinformation that was out there when I was going to sign was the only short term deal existed with him going back to Toronto Ooh he would try to run it back with them on a one and one but no it was not going to sign more than two years with any team that he looked at because he just finished his a season it does not make sense for him to be under contract. He's he's got to be able to have that option because then he gets that big jump in this contract so to me it speaks on the leverage he wants to have his overall healthy is not concerned about and the one of the most surprising things about free agency was how aggressive he was us in taking the initiative to go out there and talk to players who didn't have an existing relationship with and hadn't been in communication with that right there was very surprising yeah and you said it the word leverage I mean this is exactly what we would anticipate adequate Leonard. It's a smart shrewd savvy move and doing what works best and I don't necessarily think this is a bad thing for the clippers but ultimately it gives the leverage and in the power to be able to win that player option comes out look at the roster look at the team. He's someone that we talked so much about about really wanting to trust an organisation trust the medical staff trust everyone he's around and he can have that belief in confidence in the clippers but until you're there until you're in it. You don't ultimately know what exactly it's going to be like an also think you bring up a great point about that twenty any twenty twenty one free agent class which this contract lines up with Paul George it also lines up Lebron James and also lines up with anaesthetic Kubo Bradley some others so I think for this Leonard is setting himself up in a really excellent position it also allows the clippers to minimum of two years but allows the clippers to to continue to prove that this is the best place I remember Lebron James when he initially went to the Miami Heat. There were a number of things he talked about what the organization and but he didn't get it in his contract just talked about exactly right man as soon as Lebron sign man Pat Riley took love. That's still a way Yup Lebron. I thought we whatever was in the contract as far as seats people in the Locker Room V._I._p.. Services all stuff. He hadn't Cleveland that no longer this once they went to Lebron learns a lot of the handshake agreement stuff the stuff that wasn't in the contract these the the special dispensation he had received in Cleveland. He was not given even in Miami and then he got it back when he went back to Cleveland like we are now to a point in the N._B._A.. This is not for all God's Hell Reggie bullock just had the knicks basically say the contract we agreed to is not available to you anymore and Marcus Morris went to the Spurs and said I'm. I'm going to take his contract so there for if you're not a top twelve guy what I'm about to say doesn't apply to you but if you are a difference maker if you are a guy that can turn the fate of a franchise with your decision you become eye to eye with the owner as far as most powerful people in that organization as long as you have the credible threat to leave as long as you have a free agency or an option year hanging over their head and so the owners owners did not want these seven year deals anymore that became albatross is and what they didn't expect or what they didn't anticipate was the butterfly effect of that the unintended consequence of that is guys can sign with your team and immediately mmediately be approaching free agency and what they didn't anticipate was how many guys at the top of the League who already have hundreds of millions of dollars will make decisions that at first blush look like the wrong and financial ones that will say oh the spurs can give me five years two hundred million dollars. No I want out of here. Oh the rappers and you being the most money no I want out of here over the clippers can give me four years one forty knoll take three years one zero three that they will continually turned down enormous amounts of money because they already have so much money in order to be able to have leverage and the other aspect of this is this does let him hit free agency in his ten season when he can get the biggest possible contract if he wants to sign a long term deal anywhere and also you look at this in in this gives you leverage. If it's a place to that you want to stay at lots of times I've seen guys in the midst of their deals requesting a trade or wanting out or not wanting to be they. They don't have any leverage other than going somewhere else. This allows us to have leverage in a place at a point where he's not necessarily needing to say I you need to do this. I WANNA go somewhere. You could still stay there but now he has the power because he's not stuck in a contract act for another few years. Even when you go back home you need leverage Lebron. He showed you that Dan Gilbert not bringing back the general manager. I you know some championship. We got one. He was so satisfied with eh so man Kawhi. He won't have that problem even though he's back at home still keep the pressure on the organization and his owner. Let me tell you he might have a lot of problems in life but money won't be one of stays with the clippers any any part of this this because he's not sure that I see to me I I. I don't want to start speculating. That quite doesn't want to be a clipper before he's even played a game clipper. I can say this guy wants to be a clipper. The only deal to be made by his team was to do do a two plus one so we can be free agent at that tenth year he wants to He. Don't WanNa put where another uniform but it don't make sense for him to sign for four years. Even though we steal has that same process right there if you look at the guys who have signed long-term deals the that didn't have to Steph did it because he has full faith in the organization he was eligible for the supermax. They'd won championships. He didn't need to exert pressure. Lebron going to the Lakers signing for the maximum years was to signal due to the rest of the League. I am here to stay. Come join me like there but if you're not in that type of position unless you are really concerned about injury or about your ability continue playing at a high level you might as well continue can you to hit free agency as early as often as possible to keep pressure and to keep viable flexible options because what the other thing for quite we. I'm sure he wants to be a clipper but what if to have some that was Paul George and Lou Williams and all of like man like a new through nobody's fault some catastrophic injury like can I win a championship here that flexibility is a good thing to add flexibility leverage and I do think he gave up money coming to the clippers money he could have had this allows him to get to that supermax with the ten year at age thirty.

Jaanus Kawai Lebron Paul Georg basketball Los Angeles Clippers League Paul George Lakers Kyrie Irving Kawhi Leonard Miami Cleveland Lebron James Ben Simmons Frank Vogel Kevin Durant Kenny Atkinson Russ Boston Brooklyn Lebron Anthony Davis
Best of The Herd: 05/09/2019

The Herd with Colin Cowherd

42:12 min | 1 year ago

Best of The Herd: 05/09/2019

"You ever think about how much were you choose to live impacts who you ultimately become in life allot. Luckily, apartments dot com can help you. Find your future perfect place, though. The number one rental search site, they have the most listings giving you the most apartments townhomes condos and houses to choose from an apartment dot com. Custom search tools to help you find exactly what you're looking for become the best version of yourself. Visit apartments dot com. Change your apartment change the world. Thanks for listening to the best of heard podcast. Be sure to catch us live every weekday from twelve to three eastern nine to noon Pacific on Fox Sports radio and f s one find your local station for the hurt at Fox Sports radio dot com or stream it live every day on the iheartradio app by searching heard. Is the best of the herd with Colin cowherd on Fox Sports radio. Oh, here we go into a loaded Thursday the topic gods. Have granted us some gold bars. This is the heard wherever you may be. However, you may be listening. We are live in Los Angeles on iheartradio, Fox Sports radio. NFS one joy Taylor is joining me Lakers dysfunction, Katie could be who gone forever. Kyri Irving math. It is great quite a day NBA yesterday could break down the baseball regular season. I'm gonna pass on that today. I'm gonna pass on that today. Joy lot on let me start with this. This is a concept that even though we've seen it materialize basketball fan struggle this. I talk about this all the time. The concept that you can lose your best player and actually get better. Maybe it's short term not long term. But when you've got a K D, And you've got a Kobe. We've all played basketball at the Y you go into a gym. There's a great great player. He's better than everybody else. And you stand around watching him, and you don't move as much and you don't cut as much and long-term K D in the warriors are a better team more ammo to their arsenal. Short term not. So sure when Kevin Durant not playing the warriors aren't better. I'm not saying that they are however different. And they're different is damn good. They move more. They cut more. They're more fluid. They're more frenetic. They stand around less dream on. Green is empowered. They're twenty nine and four when Katie doesn't. And Steph does play don't tell me Houston's got this series. And I would say Houston, actually, if you ask James harden. Who we would rather face? He'd rather face the warriors with K D because when K D plays and warriors never been a great stamina guy. What's the knock on him for every melts down at the end of seasons? He looks tired when Katie leaves? Did you watch the staff? Offense running cutting harden was chasing them all fourth quarter. It's not that hard and was off in the fourth quarter. He was gassed it's not that. He was missing shots. Heli wasn't even taking them. He took three all quarter. He's averaged almost nine a quarter. He's ever to eight in the fourth quarter. He took three made to the K. D warriors are more static and long-term. They're better. But Hardin and Chris Paul get your track shoes on because the Steph warriors are running all over the floor. They have to because they they lose a prolific score. They've gotta make more screens cut harder. Pass better space better get the ball up the floor quicker. And I thought it turned harden. It was a meet he didn't want to be involved. He's never been sprinter. He's never been a sprinter. And that's why this morning. Everybody's like oh at Dover for Golden State and other just different. We've got statistical analysis with Kevin Durant. They're the best team in basketball without Kevin Durant. They won seventy three games a title and came within a career Ving jump shot of winning a set. Second team Chaikin title. So with or without K D they've been great. They've been dominant. Seventy-three winds without him. Steph wins without him if not for kyri jumper. They win twice and get Seventy-three was out. And then they add him, and they're really great. But it's two different teams dream on his energize when katie's off the floor feels like its staff and Draymond team. You can feel the energy he talks more. He's feistier. And this is a concept basketball fan struggle with and the other reason Golden State, a dynasty and Houston. Just really good because Golden State loses the best basketball player in the world. And they've got to staff and a three clay and a four Draymond in a five Iggy. And a six looney championship teams have layers of excellence just like championship companies have layers of excellence, it's not just Alabama's defense. It's not just Tom Brady. And the reason Houston is just good and not a dynasty is Katie leaves? Harden struggles. And they're not the same team if hardened not great, and they may win this series, but hard you'll have to be great. If hardened isn't great Houston's is a good good good team. When hardens on when harden scoring they can be amazing. But last night is why Houston just a good team. And the warriors are a dynasty people. Forget how good how good Michael Jordan's bulls were Scottie Pippen was a top fifty player. Dennis Rodman was the best rebounder ever coup. Coach was the best European Steve Kerr at the time was the best shooter in the league. Jim Paxson wasn't far behind Ron Harper was a twenty five point a game player who went to be a reserve. They have the best coach Golden State's got layer. After layer after layer they were a better team. And I'm not saying long-term, but they're a different team. And last night a better team than the second best team in the league with. Out K D Steve Kerr afterwards. Liverpool yesterday came out with just one of the great wins and soccer history. And after the match their manager your Klopp said our boys are giants. That's what he said. And I know how he feels. So I apologize to my mom who is probably watching. But our guys are giants was unbelievable victory tonight. It really was. And that's why they're a dynasty and Houston's just really good Houston. All katie's out. We've got a switch. Couldn't do it. Golden State lost the top guy and for like seven minutes. You're like I like this new style. It's actually kind of more fluid and fun. That's the difference between the Utah Jazz and the bulls and the good Sonics and blazers teams and the bulls and the Showtime Lakers and those really good Nick teams and those pretty good Indiana, pacer teams layers second gear third gear fourth gear bench coach that was impressive last night. Let me shift to this. Yeah. I was wrong on that Boston Celtic thing. Yeah. Milwaukee's way better bench is better stronger longer taller more passionate. Kyrie Irving thing. Never worked two years didn't work it didn't fit with the coach. I don't really fit with the roster. And here's another thing. He doesn't really fit with the city. I always thought that mattered Michael Jordan felt Chicago city of big shoulders. Michael was big Oprah. Was there Cisco kneeboard industry leaders? There's no better fit in history basketball than magic in LA glamour player. Glamorous city kyri doesn't even feel like Boston. Larry Bird did tough gritty clutch to lunch pail city, by the way. Kevin Garnett to me felt like Boston trash talker frugal tough don't get in his face. Intimidating Paul Pierce overachiever gritty played defense. Julian Edelman embodies Tom Brady has a supermom. And the wife he's a grinder watching tape. Kyri? Just doesn't feel like Boston. We already know he doesn't fit with this coach we already know he doesn't fit with his roster. But I always thought I always thought it felt like Detroit. Good teams in the NBA are tough because Detroit's tough and the seventy Steelers the steel town USA, and we're tough. They may have had a glamorous quarterback. They won with defense. Dallas teams always little flashy with eightman Tony Romo and Dak. I always feel there's a perfect harmony with the all time great teams. They almost feel like their city. Curry doesn't feel like Boston. He's not into practice. He's not a grander. He's not into the communities and ice. Oh guy. I don't know anybody anything. He's just an unbelievable basketball brilliant. Solo act. He's very much Capello. I don't feel the harmony Steph feels like Silicon Valley Dunkin felt like the system he felt like pop he felt like family even after the loss last night. Kyri just feels like he's just his own guy doing his own thing. And it just doesn't fit. In general, what kind of what kind of things are you looking for I guess in your life. And what kind of things kind of situations would be a positive action that you wanna be in. When you I'm gonna be honest with you. I'm just trying to make it back to Boston. I, you know, safely. Get see my family decompress. You know, do a human beings do. Kyri also has something I would call the number one pick syndrome. John wall's got it. Kyrie's got it. Blake griffin. Had it. I've IRS had it d- rose one cheer the number one pick. You see yourself as a one and the truth is Blake Griffin's, not a one. He's a to John walls a to Kyrie's to Derrick rose. A two Iverson is a one if he's willing to play well with others. But when you're picked number one in the world. To the world's best basketball league. Most number one picks are not magic in. Lebron? They've got all sorts of flaws Bill develop emotionally and physically into a better player. But there's been a lot of number one picks who were really over skilled twos. While Kyrie rose Blake Iverson, and they all had the same dilemma, and it wasn't a lack of talent that didn't play well with others. The number one pick syndrome they see themselves elevated above everyone coming into league. Forget once they're there. They see themselves from day one. I'm a number one pick. Therefore, I have to be a number one guy. Kyrie's not hit another personality for it. You could argue it and have the size for it, historically, Steph Curry's a very unique scoring small point guard that wins title. I just don't feel like kyri fits here. I thought he would I thought he was kind of the the icing on the cake the great closer. They had the coach they had the cast. They had the closer. It just doesn't work it. Okay. By the way, not the end of the world. He's got options. It'd be a lot of bidders. Not everybody works everywhere. Drew Brees didn't work with the San Diego. Chargers. You work. Boy, drew breeze. Feels like New Orleans as okay, not everybody works everywhere. The first place. You goes not always the best place you go first marriage, not over the best marriage. But I thought even after the game sitting at the end of the bench sort of indifferent. I was wrong. It just doesn't work. Good news is he's got a bunch option. Be sure to catch live editions of the heard weekdays at noon eastern, nine AM Pacific on Fox Sports radio f s one and the iheartradio app. Hides the heard it's a situation. Nobody wants to experience during tax season. But with the breaches in the last couple of years, your information may have already been exposed. And that could lead to an unfortunate discovery finding out that a cyber criminals still your identity in filed for your tax return. Good thing. There's lifelock with Norton to help you protect your identity in devices. If you become a victim of identity theft tax related or not lifelock will work to fix it. With a dedicated. Identity restoration specialist who's assigned to your case from beginning to end, plus with the addition of Norton security, you'll also have protection at block cyber criminals from stealing information from your devices. Of course, nobody prevents all of it or nobody can monitor all transactions at all businesses. But you can join right now and get ten percent off your first year just head to lifelock dot com or call one eight hundred lifelock and under the promo code heard. That's heard for ten percent off your first year Lakers who have been imploding for mostly every day since. Seemingly forever have become one big dysfunctional salad of here's a couple of stories that broke yesterday. A number one that Kurt and Linda Rambus overrule genie bus and the bus family on hiring. Tyron Lou who we thought two days ago is a done deal. Here was the second one that came down yesterday. The people close to Jeanie Buss are telling her to trade LeBron. Okay. I do believe I talked to somebody close to LeBron last night. I do believe LeBron would demand a trade at different times in his career. But he won't now. He's in L A, his wife his kids. They liked the community. He's got the homes. He's got the business. He's got his family. I think there was a point in LeBron's life. He would have just said get me out of here. Lebron got his rings. He's got his legacy. He's got his titles. He's got his money. He's got his brand. I think LeBron's really frustrated right now. But I I've also been told that he enriched Paul are just standing back. They're not imposing their will. And there's always a sense that LeBron's running everything they're not imposing their will. They're sitting back and watching it happen. And what they're probably thinking is today. We should have imposed are will they have not the Lakers are starting to feel like and it's weird because they've always had money. They're starting to feel like a power. Powerball winner. Ever seen those Powerball winners where they don't even know how to spend the money and all of a sudden they buy like six horses a hovercraft nine jet skis and a tiger on the backyard and four winnebago's the Lakers, literally they land LeBron with their lump sum payment, the greatest free agent ever. And then they're like, all right. Let's get Rondo he can't shoot. I know. How about land Stevenson keys weird? Yeah. I know how about javale McGee. He's an odd bird. Well, what about Michael Beasley? He's trouble doesn't last anywhere. I know when we got all this money. Let's have the Rams family run everything. Let's have the people that really matter LeBron and the coats that really fits him Tyler. Let's alienate them. They don't know what to do. They got that lump sum LeBron payment, and they've just made bad purchases ever since players that don't fit LeBron guys that can't shoot Kurt Rambis struggled as a coach. Now, the families, and I know the Rams family, I like them. But you cannot one of the things about sports is nothing in sports is as corrosive as bad ownership. You can fire a coach you can fire GM you can trade a player. But the reason the Detroit Lions don't have a Super Bowl. And the reason that Cleveland Browns don't have a Super Bowl, and the reason Abair should have more is they've historically had bad ownership the raiders in the last ten years. Not great ownership. You can't overcome draft picks. You can't it all starts at the top. And right now, let's be honest about this. I've been saying this for five months, and I get pushed back living in Los Angeles. This is worse than you think. It's just now all coming out. Like, it is worse. Then you think, you know, when a president leaves the White House than somebody writes a book, and they're like, oh, my I know it was a little crazy ho-. Holy hell, it was really bad. They're gonna write books about this White House. It's Comey worse than you think. This is a mess, and I'll tell you. What's really scary? If you're LeBron. Mani Williams chose Phoenix. Let that bake Phoenix is coaching purgatory money Williams is talented. Joe's Phoenix over the Lakers. We should have all seen this. I should have seen this Paul George chose Westbrook over LeBron. The head brands. We knew what they were. Kevin durant? Lebron tight probably whispered in his ear tough play with. I think LeBron would demand a trade at other times in his life. But now it's family now to wife now his kids now, it's their schools. We can all relate to that. Even rich people have the same. Tom Brady's worried about where his kids are going to school. The Bron James is worried about moving his kids around the country. I know you think always Reggie doesn't matter. Does it matter for Brady it matter for Koby manage for the Brown? You want your kids in the same school? You don't wanna bounce around the country? They've already sacrificed because you're a star. If you're Kobe your Brady your LeBron. I don't think he's going to demand it trade. But I think now we all thought that LeBron. The Lakers were these two massive well-run brands. I think the Lakers now hurt LeBron. And I think deep down. If he didn't have the rings, the title the network and the businesses he'd be freaking out. I think now he's just discouraged disappointed disillusioned. But I don't think he'll demand a trade. But this they'll write books about this Laker team in this White House down the road. It's this is just the stuff. That's getting out be sure to catch live additions of the heard weekdays at noon eastern, nine AM Pacific, Chris Broussard, former New York Times odd couple of Fox Sports radio. What a what a topic God topic? God's today gave us all sorts of stuff. Chris. All right. Let's start with that. Let let's let's get the Laker thing out of the way here. I don't wanna go to Laker crazy on this. But ties out what's next. Well, I mean, you see the names out there, Jason Kidd who they wanted to be on his staff could end up being the guy. I think that will probably be LeBron choice at this point, by the way, Milwaukee got significantly better when he left. Yeah. Yeah. No, no question about that. Lionel holland's. I love Lionel Hollins. I love his style of coaching. Which is I'm the boss. He's tough. Right. And I liked that. And he had great success in Memphis. It'd be interesting. I don't know. It'd be interesting to see how that worked with LeBron Frank Vogel. I think is a good coach not for LeBron. I don't think he'd get LeBron's respect Woodson. Mike Woodson would be you know, he'd be pretty good too. So let me throw this at you. The story that Rambus says are suggesting to Jeannie trade LeBron and get a cash a of gifts. What do you make getting a cashier? Guess that's the problem. First of all if you trade the Ron wants to be in LA, he came here. One reason was basketball another reason with family another reason was business if he gets traded somewhere else the other team's gotta be like he's not going to be happy way. We've seen LeBron song. So if you trade him somewhere, the first there's four reasons you not getting anything, I was just talking to a GM this morning about one is. He gonna wanna beat here. And if he's not you got a problem to the perception now, LeBron has guys will tell you the reality is different. The perception is that he takes over the franchise. A GM doesn't want that third expectations become championship or bus. All right. If you don't win the championship or get to the finals, you might lose your job as a GM what GM wants that fourth. Whether this is true or not allow executives think LeBron has fallen off. He's still great still top five. But not the guy that no matter what you have around. You is carrying you to define. Okay. I'm throw a team at you. And just gimme a minute on this. If Sixers lose tonight, you got blow some stuff up. I'm Jeanie Buss Lonzo. And LeBron you go to Philly. We get Simmons who Philadelphia doesn't fit. And I think there's Elton brand already suggested trading him. Right. You give us Butler, you give a Simmons. We'll give you LeBron and Butler will you can't trade him because he's a free agent do a sign and trade. But if you tell me Butler Simmons for LeBron Lonzo, I got my point is that. Well, look, I'm just don't want it out there to teams that it might makes this for the Brown. One is Boston. Because Danny they're great historic France out that I don't think LeBron would frown on being a part of and Danny Ainge is like less win all in less win. Okay. And I think LeBron could go there. And so I think that makes some sense the second one is Philadelphia now you'd have to work it out with clutch been some as a clutch client, Rich, Paul. So they all. Have to be involved are all happy with this. But I liked LeBron Philly with him be and question Symington, LeBron or interesting trade pieces. I was saying last summer if LeBron James if it's just about winning where can I go and stack more rings go to Philadelphia. That's if. If I know it was about other stuff, and there's no problem with that lifestyle stuff. That's fine. But if it's just about basketball should have went to Philly. Here's another you'll guy Embiid because of the health concerns what about him to the Lakers for Lebed LeBron Simmons and LeBron have a similar style game. Yeah. But look if I have LeBron and Butler and Tobias I'm competitive in these. But I I like your Simmons libra because right pointed Philadelphia's kind of a mess if they lose tonight, and they got all sorts of players Philadelphia's the Butler in that if I'm the lake okay? Because I don't want to give you my franchise. All right. Chris Bruce are joining us. So last night Charles Barkley's like it's over. Golden State can't win and might take away as we have data here. Twenty nine and four the warriors when katie's out and Steph can play now, I don't think they'll win in Houston. But I actually think they win. The warriors will win a game seven without K D And Golden State. Look, I'm glad you're saying it's because I've wondered am I the only person on the planet that understands that. Kevin Durant was a luxury not a necessity. All right. The warriors did not need. Kevin Durant to win championships. They already one one or seventy three game one Seventy-three. They beat a an almost say it. Great. Okay. See team that that okay? With K D A. Russ was great. They should've beat the warriors. They had them three one. They would be Cleveland or not, but they beat them. And then with all due respect to LeBron kyri the Cavaliers most people feel like if dramas now suspended for game five Golden State wins Esser. Yes. So they could have been to turn to finish him hand Seventy-three wins. Yes. What happened with this is what's happened? Katie goes there to Golden State and over time staff clay, all these we will they see? He's the best player. Like he's by far as great as Steph is katie's the best player on that team. And they see it and over time they naturally began to defer to him. And so they're still good enough to win titles. But you see it's not as smooth and free flowing as it used to be and last night soon if he's gone Steph takes over. Katie reminded us. I'm Kevin Durant. He reminded you. I'm Steph curry and also they're more fluid. Jordan's running around the floor chasing him. I wanted. I want to discuss hard. And what happened? What's happened at Chris Paul who rarely looks at the basket, or I we talked about the Lakers situation and the warriors we both think could win this series without a K D, it'd be harder long-term without him. But short term, they're different. And I think what I saw last night. Harden? It wasn't that. He was bad. He shot three times in may two. I think the warriors without K D R a nightmare for harden because little skinny steps running around the floor and coming off cuts and hardens oh been like a stamina concert is chasing Steph around and Claire around hard. Look gassed, no that makes them sense because there's going to be a lot more player movement. And you're going to have to work a lot harder way hard desecrate point to things about Houston. And why feel confident Golden State will still win the series? One. I just like Golden State, even without K D. They're twenty nine and four without al-qaeda last three years. Okay. Steph and clays numbers both go up but beyond that to Houston. Chris Paul what happened is it? I don't know if it's age or if the system because he's basically a two guard. He's not a great to guard. He's point goes, he even the era Gordon's better. This Gordon is the second guy. No, no question today. Tucker's plan a more valuable row the last three games, Chris average and thirteen point six assist on thirty three percents shooting. This is his moment after getting hurt last year. But we so I don't know if it's that. Or if it's just remember we've seen him struggle at big moments in the playoffs. So let's see I got questions about what he's gonna do. And then harden to your point he wasn't playing badly. I'm talking about the last seven men wasn't band. They were getting decent shots heir. Gordon? Hit a couple of big shots card. Made a nice pass the Capella. But here's what shocked me. And this is why I'm concerned about the rockets harden was not on the ball. Most of those lasts seven minutes. There were times. Erik gordon. Brought the ball up twice we both hardened ink's EP three on the floor. The ball was CB threes has at times the way they played the entire season the entire playoffs. The entire I forty four minutes or whatever it was forty two minutes was hard and handling the ball doing doing everything. And then the last seven minutes, he's not handling what's going on. Is that harden going to Gordon saying, dude, I'm gonna let you bring the ball up because I got to chase. Steph. Like, I think hard that data or is it him running from the walk running away from the moment. I don't know. But it's something to watch for and something that makes me think of all those big moments were hard and has it delivered. I've always been a Chris Paul fan last night. It was he could have taken him off the floor generally was star basketball players when. Series on the floor Jaanus on the floor. Colli? You can see the star. Lebron never disappears. I was I'm like, it's Chris Paul on the floor. He was just another player. He was just an by the way shooting thirty three percent. Okay. So we've addressed those two things let's move into this. I said Cari doesn't fit the coach he doesn't appear to fit the roster perfectly. He doesn't even feel like Boston. He's kind of a I always felt Kevin Garnett was kind of a tough guy was kind of a trash talker had an edge to him. That's boston. Boston's angry when it wakes up on a sunny day. There's a chip edleman. Feels like Tom Brady's a grinder havilcek. There's guys that work. Paul Pierce felt Belsen to me. You see I would say Pierce wouldn't boss appears play defense Pierce peers. Play defense pierced would getting your fate pierces. I want to guard Kobe Boston's tough not always talented, but tough Curt Schilling felt like Boston angry tough. Is Brady tough grind? He's a grinder at Boston likes work. I'll kyri and I'm like, you know, what? Kyrie's great. Boston's awesome. It just wasn't destined to work. He didn't feel like Botham. He doesn't feel like Brad Stevens. Okay. Let me see. I just want to say. And Kyrie deserves a lot of criticism. No question. But why is brass Stevens? Getting a pass brass. Steve is who was crowned as the next Gregg Popovich as Gregg Popovich. It's right. He did not. He was right. He had a bad year. Look every coach in the league knows the Xs and os. Especi, and you got little engine that could coaches in the NBA some of them. Yeah. And that's what he is. Now. The question is Kenny coach the Rolls Royces because if you wanna win championship, right? You need a coach you can coach the roles ROY. It's funny about that. For a lot of fans that have never seen Gregg Popovich in person. He's overpowering. He's huge the had the beard. He's like six six. He's loud. He's intimidating Popovich looks like a former NBA player when you see him walk off the bus. I've been there in Portland watch them walk off the bus. He just looks like an old NBA player. Stevens looks like an accountant there's something to be said about that. Like Brad's always like that meek. Nice went to Butler guy. There is a possibility that stars look at them and think college coach players like him, but a guys like college, right? When you have guys that are just trying to show that they belong in the league or trying to win next contract. They're going to do whatever it. Takes and that's what he had a book Butler. And that's what he has had until kyri even Isaiah Thomas was a six man chip on his shoulder. He was of that molten Mercedes Benz in kyri, and you couldn't make it work. So you have to be able to manage egos bringing together I've been told Brad doesn't like confrontation and Kyrie kinda that's one reason Kyrie was out kind of talking and bring stuff into the media. Because Brad wasn't gonna really address it. Then Tony didn't like confrontation, either know he does so brass. I'm not saying fire him. He's he's a very good coach. But I'm just saying he should not get a pass on this. Now, we regarding kyri and Emma tie back to LeBron if I'm LeBron James, I wanna stay in LA. So I'm not asking for a trait. Go all in on getting kyri back with you Lakers. That's what he should do this. This morning, go see KAI read this like sue whenever Kyrie's ready, buddy winds down. And and I know it will look humbling of kyri like he's going back to his leader. You if you're LeBron you gotta get the narrative out there. No, I need Kyrie J much as my favorite my favorite band of all time is the eagles. They fought the entire time. They were together records they separated they had some success individually, then they got back together. And they were great. They fought the entire time. This idea that every marriage is just hand in hand. I've been married in relationships. I've been in relationship. Arguing is okay. The eagles argued to great band, not everybody's YouTube Shaq and Kobe fought Phil Jackson the bottom line is LeBron kyri worked. Now, they broke up like the eagles. They did have some success, but they work together. One guys at true way and controls the ball of the other guy is an over skilled to who doesn't want the media. Lebron's great with the media. Kyri doesn't Highridge is once the ball. It is by the way, don't want the responsibility run into Ghani Pippen. I covered him. Scotty, didn't like the media Scottie. Didn't like the responsibility. He was a super talented to Michael sell the way dressed Michael loved the podium. Michael love the moment. Michael alike. The media Michael loved being a one Koby love being a one Kyrie's good enough. But he's a two was wrong. We're going down in history as Scotty Pippin. That's what and even more. So because he hit the biggest shot arguably the biggest one of the biggest outs in NBA history. If I can't get kyri, and LeBron's gotta find out relatively quickly got time. But from kyri, okay. Can you will you come? Then I'm all in on Kimba Walker if I'm Hugh, I don't think he's getting paid the I don't think he's getting unless they know something we don't know, then don't even bother with them. You have to show kyri. You're my first choice. And then if you can't get him show Kimba, your, I'm all. All in on you because I gotta ask you as much as I love, Kyrie Irving. His game is phenomenal best handle ever clutch player. If he had not teamed up with LeBron how much more will we think of him then Kimba Walker? We like thinking him like Kimball August all star team. Every year team loses doesn't make the play out in the first Yukon Duke, both great college star yet. So Kimba might be at we've seen signs that Kim would play well in the clutch just as good point. So, but and then I'm Marcus Morris Bogdan bogdonovich some shooters I'm hoping to Rambus Rambus his are listening. One more heard heard streams twenty four hours a day seven days a week within the iheartradio app. Search her to listen live or on demand. Whenever you like have you ever thought about how much the place you choose to live directly impacts, the you that you become that's where apartments dot com can help apartments dot com has the most listings, which means you have the most apartments town. Homes condos and houses to choose from to kind of unlock your full potential and become the best version of yourself. You're in control of your rental future. They have amazing custom search tools. So if you're looking for something specific like pet friendly commute friendly lounge by the pool or sit on Mike couch and watch reruns. You'll find it departments dot com. What you see is what you rent they comb through their listings to make sure all the information is verified in up to date. How great that they're making the hunting for a new place process, really really a breeze. So stop wasting your time searching through sites that don't have you in mind instead visit apartments dot com to find your perfect new place, apartments dot com. Change your apartment change the world Haiti's injury. Kyrie's meltdown. I think you know, the psychology NBA dynasties are unlike NFL dynasties NFL dynasties tend to last a little longer. And when they end it usually because a free agency NFL doesn't pay the guys like the NBA does NFL guys are like, hey, I'm going to get paid and NFL guys will peel off a really good team and say I want to get paid NBA guys make a lot of money their their dynasties usually and because of some ego a little injury. So it's all different. But I see the K D stuff. I see the kyri stuff. And I started thinking about all the crazy things that could happen between now and July first when free agency starts, so I'm going to take you through. What what I would if you're telling me, ideally. And I know how you think Colin you love big markets. I like traditional powers being good. I like stars moving to great teams. So it's time to travel into the future. Let's jump into the herd. Hot tub time machine. No need. The her tub time machine. Okay. Let's travel forward. It's the ping pong lottery. This Tuesday may fourteen the night of the NBA lottery. The Knicks and they've got fourteen and a half percent chance. Win the NBA lottery. There's only two other teams that have a chance the Knicks do so they win the lottery. It's very exciting. Now, let's travel forward to June sixty game seven NBA finals the warriors get there without K D. They beat the bucks in an epic series. This is my wildest fantasy. It's a great series. And now K D. Not their warriors win again without him Steffes team it in katie's head. Let's travel now to June twentieth. Nine of the NBA draft. Nick, select the most profound college player I have seen in fifteen years. I n Williamson from Duke. Fascinating. Nice picture what to go graphic department? That's good. That's gonna look amazing and Adam silver, by the way as tall. So that really amazing. So now we travel to July first I every agency. Kevin Kevin Durant. Signs with the next. This what you want? Kevin durant? I'm saying for fantasy. Kevin Durant signs with the Knicks. He and zainur together. Kyri doesn't go to the Knicks. Lebron toxin back in to playing together. Like the eagles band breaks up. They get back together. The Lakers are now relevant. I don't wanna see LeBron Peter out and do nothing for four years. I know that's not good for the league. It's not any fun. I like watching the Brown play. Lebron kyri rear now together, by the way. They don't have to give up anything joy. They got coups. Ma they got Lonzo. They got Brandon Ingram. They got Josh heart. So they don't have to get off anything. Right. Okay. So now the Lakers at a real team. We wouldn't deny that. Now. There are a real team Celtics knowing they have to get through Janas and kyri has left them trade for Anthony Davis because Boston sitting there thinking, okay, we yawn us is the future the east if we don't combat him. We have no chance if you watch that series. Milwaukee was just bigger and stronger, so Anthony Davis, and they've got the pieces to get him goes to the Celtics. So the Celtics now. You are. Anthony davis. Jalen brown. Gordon Hayward, Jason Tatum gone. There's still good coli Leonard at the last second hard to protect goes to the clippers a playoff team that won two games over the warriors. Steve bomber Jerry West Doc Rivers. They bring in. It's a really interesting team. He's there silent assassin star the clippers. Now have a real rivalry in LA would LeBron kyri now Jimmy Butler, Philadelphia. A lot of pieces he signs with the Knicks. So I get Durant's. You're one butlers. You're very talented too. And the kid FINA. Gms Zahn nut kyri. I don't think that's the best fit. I want more size and athleticism in the east. If how did kyri look against the books, if you wanna get pass, Milwaukee, you better have size, Butler, six six Durant. Six elevens. I on six six and a half and powerful. So the Knicks and the Lakers and the clippers and the Celtics Zion. Now, we return back today. Thursday may ninth not nearly. Still very interesting day. But by the way, Nick Reid had some good stuff on first thing. I this morning. I got to play this bite. Nick has this sourced laid out how the Lakers botched the tie Lou higher. Listen to this. The reason he was not offered the job a week ago is genie. As had been reported was worried about the optics worried that it would look like LeBron was in charge, Jeannie, then had dinner with magic. And magic told her. You cannot worry about the optics. It is about maximizing the time with LeBron tight is a good coach LeBron will respond to tie go with him. And then Linda and Kurt Rambis stepped in Linden, Kurt Rambis. And this is what I'm reporting slowed. This whole thing down and said if you're going to hire by you need to make some demands do not offer more than three years and when tie asks directly, why are you offering me three year deal when Luke got a five year deal? He was told matter of factly. We are hiring you to coach LeBron more than we are hiring you to coach the Lakers LeBron has three years left on his contract. And at that point said, I don't need this and walked away the Lakers tried to spin it like they walked away that has now been roundly refuted. Good stuff by neck, also. And I think you and I talked about this. I was told and arosh Markazi confirm this today. I was told Luke went to the Lakers and said I'm out that was not him getting fired. Yeah. It was a mutual. It was a mutual separation in a rush Markazi LA times came on today, and confirmed what what I had been told. So I trusted my source, but this idea Luke fired tie get out of here. Underway. It's working in Laker land. You ever think about how much where you choose to live impacts who you ultimately become in life a lot. Luckily, apartments dot com can help you. Find your future perfect place, though. The number one rental search site, they have the most listings giving you the most apartments townhomes condos and houses to choose from an apartments dot com. As custom search tools to help you find exactly what you're looking for become the best version of yourself. Visit apartments dot com. Change your apartment change the world.

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