16 Episode results for "Insurance Underwriter"

Insurance Software with Gordon Wintrob

Software Engineering Daily

56:07 min | 1 year ago

Insurance Software with Gordon Wintrob

"Insurance is an old business. Individuals and businesses have been buying insurance policies for decades. These insurance policies can cost hundreds thousands thousands or tens of thousands of dollars per year software is remaking the insurance industry one way that new software can improve the insurance industry is through better or brokerage technology insurance involves carriers and brokers who work together on delivering insurance solutions to customers the initiation and closing using of an insurance transaction often involves lots of emails p._d._f. Files and antiquated software systems technology improvements will smooth out this this process and reduce manual overhead another way insurance can improve thanks to technology is through smarter pricing the price of an insurance policy. He is offered to a customer based on how risky the insurance policy is how large the customer pool is and how much the insurance company could lose in the event that it would have to pay a out an insurance policy. These risk profiles are calculated based on historical data. Gordon weintraub is the co founder and c._t._o. Of new front insurance insurance gordon joins the show to discuss the insurance industry and how his company got started. You probably do not enjoy searching for a job. Engineers engineers don't like sacrificing their time to do phone screens and we don't like doing whiteboard problems and working on tedious. Take home projects. Everyone knows the software. Hiring process is not perfect but what's the alternative triple. Bite is the alternative triple. 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Bite does not look at candidates backgrounds like resumes and where they've worked where they went to school. Triple bite only only cares about whether someone can coat so i'm a huge fan of that aspect of their model this means that they work with lots of people from non-traditional unusual backgrounds to get started. Just go triple by dot com slash s daily and take a quiz to get started. There's very little little risk and you might find yourself in a great position getting multiple on site interviews from just one quiz and a triple bite interview go to triple by dot com slash s._e. Daily to try it out. Thank you to triple bite. The gordon wind chop welcome to software engineer daily. Thanks for having me jeff. I'm looking forward to talking to you about the technology that you've built at new front but in order to talk about that technology we i need to talk about about insurance. What is an insurance broker jeff. That's a great question insurance. Is this industry that most people don't don't really interact with and their day to day <hes> but the way i like to think about it is it's sort of like dark matter. It really touches everything around you every car on the road every pretty building you ever walked into every business you ever interact with. They all rely on insurance to operate. If you think about the first transaction the dawn of commerce merce there was risk in the world and insurance is what developed to transfer that risk to capital markets and so the way the market has developed is that there's something called an insurance appearance brokerage which is what connects to all of the insurance carriers. Those are the companies that actually underwrite the risk their companies like a._i._g. The hartford travelers travelers these are big names that you've probably heard of and the insurance brokerages what hires insurance brokers and these are the individual people who go out and find clients everyone everyone from a small startup to a restaurant to a public company they all work with insurance brokers to help them buy the insurance that they need so so there is an insurance broker and insurance carrier. The insurance broker is the individual or perhaps company that helps the customer connect with an insurance carrier and the key the insurance carriers the one who actually underwrites the insurance yeah that's exactly right. The broker is the individual who works at the brokerage house. Okay do these insurance. Brokers usually work as sole dole proprietors or do they join some kind of brokerage that they work with the brokers always work at a brokerage house and the reason why is because the way the carriers have developed the are quite antiquated they essentially run on pen and paper and really don't have the systems to work directly with brokers. I which is why instead they work with the brokerage house that has a longstanding relationship and deals with employing insurance brokers and as you you alluded to there is a wide variety of insurance types. There's individual insurance like auto insurance my life insurance my health health insurance but there's also insurance for businesses like construction insurance. There's real estate. Insurances agriculture insurance describe some of the industrial types of insurance that most of the listeners probably are not familiar with yeah sure thing. There's literally some kind of insurance for every risk that exists out there. If you wanna take sort of the classic example and then called general liability and this is the insurance that you need to buy in order to have a lease so every business that leases their office space buys this general liability insurance and it's sometimes called slip and fall <hes> the reason why is imagine you walk into a coffee shop and you slip and you hit your head. You're likely to sue that coffee shop and the landlord landlord wants to make sure that the coffee shop will stand business and be able to defend itself in the lawsuit and so you by general liability because the insurance carrier will actually step step in and defend you in that lawsuit. Why did you decide to get into the insurance business. It's pretty funny. I it's not the kind of thing that most people are thinking about what every day and my background is very much intact so i studied computer science at m._i._t. And started another business that went through the winner fourteen y combinator batch approach and that business was bought by lincoln put before all that i actually grew up around the insurance industry. My dad was the c._e._o. Of a._i._g.'s life retirement retirement business so i've always sort of grown up hearing about these things like underwriting and annuities just around the dinner table and always found it to to be this fascinating topic that i i never quite knew how to approach until new front when you start considering insurance plus software as a business to get into what were the different models within the insurance world that you considered early liane we we definitely thought about the more traditional approach in silicon valley to the insurance industry and most what are called insure tech companies are trying to find ways as to cut out the broker so it's kind of the classic silicon valley playbook you see an industry that has a middleman and you you think how can we cut out or disinter mediate. This broker and early on we were thinking about some similar approaches to that we were thinking about are there ways we could give away a free software product and then up sell people to buy insurance points and it was really my dad who pushed us and said look brokers dominate this market. There's a reason why ninety nine percent of commercial insurance is sold through a broker. You should spend a lot of time. Shadowing brokers just understand what is their day look like. What are they like. What are they hate and that was really what got us into this industry and our model with new front so you mentioned that there is a typical model for insurance insurance companies or ensure tech companies in silicon valley. I am aware of some of these insure tech companies. What were the new the insurance companies that cropped up during web to dotto or web three. What are the describe the landscape of insure tech companies in in a little little more detail sure. I think they sort of break down into two areas. One are sort of the disaster fits of the world and these with the company is that initially said look we want to figure out a way to discipline me brokers and so in that example the idea was we can give away a really the easy to use payroll software and upsell people to buy insurance without working with a broker. They just buy it directly from from from santa fits. The other approach was ensure tech companies that are trying to figure out how do we build software and sell it to the legacy players and and we kind of took this third model of saying look. We don't want to discern mediate brokers. We also don't want to offer and sell it to these legacy players. We actually want to build a full full stockbrokerage so we're a technology company that actually owns and operates the insurance brokerage right to your company is new front insurance ernst describe what your company does and a little more detail sure thing we're building the modern insurance brokerage and we're focused on what's called commercial insurance which his roughly half a trillion dollar market and that's every year just in the u._s. And what's interesting about how new front grows is rather than going to clients directly so rather than going to start up or a restaurant and saying you should come buyer commercial insurance from us. We actually go to the brokers. Convince them to leave their current brokerage house which gives them a really crummy experience. It runs on pen and paper commissioned come join new front and when they joined new front all of their clients follow them so our business scales by actually recruiting insurance brokers and moving their books of business two new front. How do you integrate with brokers exactly. We actually hire them there. Fulltime employees and that's the way it just works in. This industry is that the brokerage house always hires the brokers. What's interesting about the relationship. Ship is that even though there fulltime employees they're commission only so they only earn money when they when they bring in deals so you can kind of think of them as being halfway between an employee and customer. They're almost like a partner to the brokerage so customer. Let's am looking for agriculture agriculture insurance. I want insurance against my soybean crops. I'm gonna come to new front. I'm going to be talking to a broker and the broker is going to show me a catalog of insurance carriers or how how does that work so it really varies a lot client to client client using the example of say farmer who runs a soybean farm. It's likely that you have a long standing relationship with a broker so let's say you work with. One of our brokers is named joe. He's out in bakersfield. You probably have been buying insurance from joe for over a decade and the differences when joe comes and joints. It's new front. Suddenly he moves a lot faster. He can offer you many more options and help. You make sure that you're buying the right coverage. It's at the best price price and he's a lot more responsive as sort of other questions or issues. Come up with your insurance. And where does the technology come in if we use that soybean loyd being example further. What kinds of software can you offer across the experience to make it better for the broker to make it better for the customer. What's the software stack sure so what's so cool about. The software that we're building. Is that not only does it. Help us create a better experience the brokers but at the end of the day let's unlock client experiences that they can't get anywhere else so when i think about what we're building the base layer. Is this platform for for. How do you describe risk in the world all these different kinds of companies that we've mentioned whether you're you're a soybean farmer or a coffee shop or a high growth startup. You have risk but the way that you think about it is very different and so on top of this canonical representation. We have a few different products. There's a client facing product that makes it really easy to apply for insurance and manager policies and there's a broker dashboard where are brokers can understand what's happening with their book of business. S and what did they have to get done this week and then the third piece is everything around our internal operations so the tools that our account management team uses to actually process all of these insurance transactions so is there much in the way of data that flows back into new front or key or can you get data from third party providers. Is there any room to like. Get a broad base of different insurance rates throughout throughout from throughout the industry. I guess i'm trying to understand how perhaps large data sets might factor into your business. Yeah definitely we we sit in this really privileged position by being set up as a brokerage so on one side. We have all of this information about risk flowing in from businesses that information like nick. How many employees does the company have. What is that revenue look lake. What is their cap table. Look lake. We also have information on pricing from the carriers because in take take the soybean farmer example we might go to five or ten different carriers to help them find the best coverage in the best price and each one of those carriers will make a bid on the risk. I'm so we have this information on pricing and then the third piece is actually information on claims because if there's a law so let's say that soybean farmer one of their tractors tractors breaks down or a building burns down and they make a claim. They're going to call up their insurance broker so we have information on what sort of claims data they actually need from the insurance and so you combine all three of these things to figure out well. How do we appropriately price risk and make sure that you're getting exactly the coverage. You need ed exactly the right price. Do you have a sense for how correctly priced insurance policies are these days or can you tell me more about how insurance rates are priced. It would what the status quo is at jeff. I love that question question because insurance is this sort of insane industry where pricing is a is very very archaic and even though there's often some sort of black blackbox model or algorithm a lot of it is done by gut feel <hes> oftentimes an underwriter at a carrier will be able to calculate a price price based off an algorithm but then they have a ton of wiggle room sometimes as much as fifty percent to increase the price decrease the price depending on their sort sort of local knowledge about the market and as a result for some of our clients we might go to five carriers and nc one care come back at sixty five thousand dollars another ed one hundred twenty eight thousand and another one hundred sixty seven thousand and sometimes the more expensive carriers will have reasons why they're coming in like that but oftentimes times it's it's sort of just gut feel or based on whatever tribal knowledge that particular underwriter his working with take over the last few months. I've started hearing about retool every business this needs internal tools but if we're being honest i don't know of many engineers who really enjoy building internal tools it can be hard to get engineering resources to build back office applications and it's definitely hard to get engineers excited about maintaining those back office applications companies like door dash and brex an amazon use retool to build custom internal tools faster. The idea is that internal tools mostly look the same they're made out of tables and drop downs and buttons and text inputs retool gives you a drag and drop interface so engineers can build these internal. You is in hours not days and they can spend more time building features that customers will see retool connects to any database a._p._i. For example if you wanna pull in data from post grass you just read a sequel query. You drag a table onto the canvas. If you wanna try out retool you can go to retool dot com slash s._a._v._e. Daily that's r. e. t. o. o. L. dot com slash s. e. daily early and you can even host retool on premise. If you wanna keep it ultra secure. I've heard a lot of good things about retool from engineers. Here's who i respect so check it out at retool dot com slash s._a._v._e. Daily can you help me understand better how this negotiation process worked in the past. So if i i am a soybean farmer looking for my agriculture insurance i go to a broker. The broker has knowledge of the different carriers. I and the broker is is helping me understand the the options between the different carriers. Am i just going to go with the cheapest option shen or are there like trade-offs. Are there outlier events that one carrier might cover that another carrier does not cover how is my real and promised promised to the listeners that we will get to software subjects eventually with how does the relationship between that the customer and the broker and the insurance prince carrier once the customer has been presented with these different insurance rates. Tell me how that that conversation evolves and how the customer eventually select which insurance to go with sure the most important thing that the broker does is they really serve as the risk manager to the business business. That's why even the most sophisticated buyers say at general counsel or c._f._o. At a large organization will rely on an insurance broker to help to make sure that they're they're managing their risk correctly and buying the right insurance. Take the example of the the soybean farmer the insurance broker would i sit down with them and and help them understand. What are the risks in your business <hes>. Do you have an online presence. How much how much acreage you have and what locations how exposed are you you two different weather incidents or fire incidents. They'll help you kind of pull together all this information and think through what your risk tolerance. Maybe you want to retain retain some of this risk or maybe you want to find other ways to mitigate it and only at that point they actually help you figure out okay given all of these inputs. Let's go out to the appropriate carriers and help you find the right coverage and so at that point you have a pretty good sense of of what you actually need and and we can help negotiate with the different carriers to make sure you get exactly what you want and hope you find the best price okay so there is like a diagnostic process with brokers interacting with the customer and figuring out what at the risk profile is and then it's it's really just a matter. It sounds like it's not a clear cut decision. It's probably like you're shopping for a car and it's just you're never going to find the some perfect ideal or maybe you won't always find perfect ideal. You're just gonna find trade offs between these different insurance current policies rate and the way that the insurance industry has evolved to describe these different kinds of coverages is often very complicated and hard to understand and the broker helps you through all of that and figure out what you actually need just a a brief anecdote. The last time i bought insurance insurance online it was from ahead to get insurance a certain type of business media insurance and the process i went through through was baffling because there wasn't really a log in system was more like you had to like. Go through this form you fill out a form and that include your email address and then you have to make a purchase on a separate area of the site and then they email you a p._d._f. Policy and it was just very low tech and i believe this was like a multibillion dollar insurance company. Why is the insurance industry. I mean if you look at banking banking kind of kept up with the times to some degree. I mean completely but you can at least log into your banking system. You can look at your transactions pretty easily. This was much more primitive. Why hasn't the insurance or or are there insurance carriers that are more up to date. What's the like why hasn't the insurance industry caught up in terms of technology yeah. I i ask that question every day. It's crazy that in every other industry including very highly regulated industries like banking they have gone online line and figuring out ways to give clients a better experience and insurance is just remained extremely dusty and antiquated my best. Guess at why it's sort of stuck in in the past is these are often not only highly regulated but also mandatory products so you you need general ability in order to sign a lease so as long as you want to keep the lights on it your office you need this policy and that means that it sort of something that you're maybe willing to put up with some pretty serious headache to get it in place and then you often don't really think about it again until there's a problem or or you need something changed. I'd like to get into talking more about software because i think we've outlined the contours of the problem set that you're going after when you were starting new front and you had the idea for this seems like the focus was better broker experience and and better customer experience. What was the initial software that you built the way. I like to think about how built our product is sort of like peeling back layers years of an onion. I like thinking about. Let's start with the client experience. I that's the outermost layer of how do clients actually buy insurance and manage their policies and so the first thing that we bill was actually are are easy online application and so a good example of you gave the example of having to buy via policy online. You probably had to fill out a bunch of p._d._f. Applications that often ask a lot of duplicate questions so one might say. When was your company founded another one will say. Have you been in business for more than ten years and so what we've done is we've gone through. Thousands of these insurance applications and standard is all <unk> questions so that instead of sending a series of p._d._f.'s to our clients that ask a bunch of duplicate information. We send them a link to sing that feels a lot more or like turbotax where it asks you just the right set of questions for your business and we can also pre fill it with a bunch of information that specific to that client and is was there broker occur software that you built also like what happens when the user fills out that information yeah so kinda peeling back layers of the onion we if the outer layers how are we collecting this information from a client we now have in the standardized format in our database and then our team internally needs to pass all that that information to these insurance carriers and none of the insurance carriers have anything like an a._p._i. So some of them might have a web portal where you can upload information mation in a certain format a lot of them operate over email. She'll send an email to certain underwriter that has a set of attachments. Some of them actually still require facts and so the next step after we collected this information in a structured format was building an engine that could map from our standardized format into whatever crazy format format that the the insurance market's require. What what do you mean crazy format. I can't even describe to you some of these twenty thirty page long p._d._f.'s that argest are just filled with indecipherable taxed. It's these pedia formats that have built up over many years where underwriters will start asking additional questions and <hes> start saying the way we're collecting. This information wasn't crite quite right so we'll keep collecting it that way but then we'll phrase it in a slightly different way. It's extremely <music> onerous to to fill these forms out and even to interpret what information is on as on these forums. Today is your business mostly about judge building a better user experience rather than doing anything like with big data. That's right the way alex. Look at it as we right now the amount of data flowing through the brokerage when qualify for some sort of massive model you deploy in spark but it's extremely valuable every one of these transactions across our thousands of clients we may be going out to five or six different carriers and getting all all this information about pricing and so obviously this data set that we're building up over time <hes> has some of the most privileged information about the risk in these businesses and how the insurance markets gets our pricing that risk i've heard of businesses where if i want to get a mortgage i can go to mortgage platform dot com and inter information and then they'll federate the mortgage request to a bunch of different mortgage offer offers so that has existed for awhile. Are there other companies that do this kind of thing where they federate the request four insurance across different carriers they had is it traditionally work or is that just the broker is that traditionally the broker like literally calling or or sending an email to the other to the insurance companies that they're federating the request you traditionally it's done by the broker at the brokerage house so the way that conventional brokerages scale is by hiring an army of people and they ended up really just drowning under their own weight they it becomes this really hard repetitive repetitive data entry task and the only way that they skill is by hiring more and more are approaches to have technology as part of the d._n._a. of the company so that we can in scale through great software and ultimately deliver a much faster and better experience to our clients. Tell me about the software for that. You're working on today. What parts of your stack or are you focused on improving. We constantly have the trade off of these different constituents. So how how are we we improving things for our clients for brokers and far internal operations team. Is there one particular part you want me to zoom in on. Let's actually start with the operations team. What kind of software do you build for the operations team. What is insurance operations. Look like sure so that's what i mentioned and about. How do you translate data from our standard canonical format onto whatever format the carriers choir and so there are about three thousand carriers out there dozens of lines of coverage and we have to abstract away whatever format they they require make it feel like an a._p._i. For us internally and so what that looks like is one of very complicated matching rules about translating data from our standards format into these different formats and then when we get information back from the carriers. It's often locked away in a p._d._f. Document and so what we've built is this n._f._l. Pipeline where you can dump in a p._d._f. Like gay quote document and we will parse out all of the important bits of information to things like what is the company name. What's the policy number the eh premiums the amount that the client actually has to pay and then all the important limits and supplements that are specific to that quote and using this pipeline applying. We're able to build up this data's head over time about how all of the carriers are pricing the risk so the other areas of the company the other areas of technology stack the you're focused on with other areas so there's clients there's brokers and there's an internal operation right. Okay good deeper on the client lance software like if i'm buying insurance. What kinds of opportunities are there for you to make the experience better right now. One of the biggest ones is the the application process that i mentioned earlier just rather than having to fill out five or six p._d._f.'s every year that require tons of emailing emailing back and forth and meetings with your broker instead of just having a link. That's a living document. It has all of the information about your business. You can update just the important morton piece of information every year. That's a huge improvement. The other pieces giving our clients a really nice dashboard where they can see all of the policies that they have in in place they can see any quotes that we're working on for for new lines of coverage and they can also deal with claims so in the event that something happens building burns earns down and offices broken into of course you can still call your broker but you can then see what's the status of the claim what's happening with it who who don't need to touch twith and then ultimately. What am i going to get paid. That dashboard sounds pretty useful for particular type of customer like i'm thinking about. Maybe i run a set of apartment buildings. In san francisco or i run a set of candy. Factories stories in utah like a candy. Factory probably has fifteen twenty one hundred different types of insurance. It'll be pretty useful if i had a single pane of glass dashboard to see my different insurance policies. He's imagined that the way that that exists today's like a c._f._o. Has has psycho folder with some p._d._f. Senate for for most candy conglomerates. It's yeah one hundred percent. They're still insurance carriers that are talking about going paperless so if you have a series of p._d._f.'s you're often <hes> ahead of the curve and so having this nice online dashboard that's completely integrated and gives you realtime information about all of your insurance coverage extremely useful <hes> the example sample of of a property manager that manages a bunch of different buildings they can see a breakdown of what policies they have and how do those policies affect all of the a different properties that they manage. Is there like a process that if i am that kind of if i'm running a bunch of apartment buildings night. Let's say i have this dashboard board. Do i do a yearly assessment of my different insurance policies and look at different rates. How much money is there to be saved or made in insurance insurance optimization for a business owner like that well. I if you're if you're broker their brokerages doing their job crackly. Hopefully a lot of that is just taking care of for you there. There's often a lot of a lot of room to optimize both for a specific line of coverage and then also looking across across the entire package and that's a lot of what our job is to use all of this data that we're collecting to figure out what is the right set of carriers that we should be negotiating with. Are there ways as we can consolidate with one carrier and get better pricing for you or there may be ways we could pull in some additional line of coverage that will build up kind of like a tower that will at the end of the day. Give you give you better coverage monday. Dot com is a team management platform that brings all of your work external tools and communications into one place making cross team in collaboration easy. 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I feel like i've seen this kind of playbook before for this kind of business where it's ticket information business that has been around for a long time and when you digitize it you have this first wave of business opportunity which is just making things more efficient and then after that you have a tidal wave of opportunities because because by digitizing things you eliminate so many unnecessary processes that the overhead overhead for the business is just so much dramatically less than your competitors that you just you just tear out ahead so like that one uncovered comes to mind his checker checkers kind of like this because they do this background check process. They automate the background. Check process into an a._p._i. There's a lot of pain that they i had to go through to build out that business a lot of manual processes that they sort of had to like automate or semi automate and we've done a show on that. There was pretty mind blowing but it sounds like you're kind of in this first phase and you know eventually. You'll have the opportunity to kind of get into the data business. Perhaps even even get into the insurance business itself first of all. Do you agree with my framing and i guess i'd i'd like to know like what are the opportunities beyond because i know you're not going through the pain of of optimizing p._d._f. Formats for nothing yeah. I'm i'm happy to chat a little bit about the market landscape and how he golfing. I think that that is i don't quite grasp the first and second wave. I think the way that i think about it is that there was sort of <hes> a lot of initial innovation in software of building sort of purely software solutions and i think a lot of the innovation that you're seeing today is how do we use software to transform a legacy industry that hasn't adopted a lot of technology so checkers good example but i also look to what fleck sport does the freight forwarding what open door does with real estate <hes> and i think insurances in line for the same sort of innovation so when you move past the p._d._f. Half automation business what are the big opportunities the u._c. Where does it go. How does it evolve. I think what's so exciting about what we're doing right now. Is it's really taking a similar approach approach to a company like net flicks. You netflix initially said we just need a lot of distribution. We're just gonna have a lot of people a lot of eyeballs a lot of people watching watching shows but initially it's everyone's watching the office it's all third party content and then what's so cool is that as their they build out all this distribution and are amassing all the statea they suddenly understand oh we can our customers really want political thrillers and they can create house of cards arts their own first party content. We can actually do the same thing with the insurance world so today. Our clients are buying policies from companies like a._i._g. Or the hartford but long term we can use all the data that we're collecting on risk to offer our own white label new front products so products that are custom base on the risks that we're seeing being in areas where we can move faster. We can provide better pricing. We can provide coverage. You can't find elsewhere. Thanks to this data. Are you already doing that or you already beginning into the insurance offering business yes what school is the way we can do. It is by just using the data that that we're collecting and helping inform how we're working with the carriers so for example we could. Maybe maybe there's an opportunity to go to travelers and say hey travelers. There's we're seeing this other carrier. That is coming in way way less expensive for the same kind of coverage. Why didn't you bid across this whole portfolio where we thank you can outperform so you can essentially use this data to bring some transparency to a market. That's totally opaque and start driving efficiency for your clients right now so i'm not sure i understood that example. Are you actually underwriting the insurance. In in that example are or are you finding a market need in in finding a carrier that can satisfy that need understand sure so in that example rather than us doing the actual underwriting we can just work with the existing carriers and start playing them off against each other so going to the ones that we know are more expensive where they should be able to provide better pricing and show them the data about why they should be offering something better to a certain set of client. Oh i see i see so it's not necessarily about like like creating a new kind of insurance. You're saying there's opportunities in basically saying hey we're seeing you know enough data in soybean insurance you you should lower your rates. If you wanna be competitive with insurance underwriter a exactly that's the thing that we're doing today and that sort of the first step and then longer term it is truly to to white label our own product so maybe we see an area where payments companies takes them a really long sometimes get directors and officers coverage while we could come in with our own white label new front product <hes> to help them get the coverage that they need faster or at a better price what is directors and officers coverage good question directors and officers coverage is something that businesses need to buy to protect the directors jersey officers in in a business oftentimes in the event of a lawsuit unfortunately not only will the company be named but people will try to sue who director <hes> or an officer of the company as an individual and in this case the the business will buy. This kind of this kind of insurance was sometimes called d._n._a. Insurance to protect those people every venture capital financing round requires the the company baiano insurance coming going back to the the example you gave of like. Let's say you get a client comes in starts talking to a broker hey i i want insurance type x and you go out to the carriers and you're able to play the carriers off of each other because you you see all the different deals and you're able to negotiate on behalf of that customer and get them a better deal on that insurance type. They're coming through the door looking for how do you make money off of that. Yeah happy happy you explain. The way that we make money is that when a client buys a policy they're paying what's called the premium so that's the full amount that the client has to pay and the carrier pays the brokerage house a percentage of vat as a commission so the commission it depends totally depends on the carrier in the line of coverage but it's often between ten and twenty percent of the total policy premium got it so so you would traditionally benefit from actually selling the more expensive insurance to the customer right it might look that way but the way that you're actually savvy and long-term greedy eighty in this market is by offering the best coverage at the best price clients have lots of lots of competitors lots of other options they can go. Oh two and they're not going to work with you for one second. If you're if you're gouging them on price interesting yes just wanna lock up that customer and just make sure they don't turn and and they trust you long-term right and the industry. These are really really sticky relationships. The industry retention is about ninety percent so most i brokers will keep a client for a decade and that's using pen and paper. That's not using modern tools to help you retain customers. Although in some cases the sas ask tool might actually have more churn right because if you actually like i don't even know this this insurance policy that i got that i can only interface their email actually trying to cancel it the other day and it took me more than thirty minutes. I couldn't really figure it out so i just like gave up so i'm just not churning. That's funny. I think if it was is it was really affecting your bottom line you. You'd probably figure out how to yeah you'd probably right an angry tweet or somehow find a way to show the show that you're upset right. So what about the insurance rate calculation business itself. Is that okay. I i guess that would be that would fall under the umbrella of the white label business that you might eventually get in so if you were if you were to enter the insurance market and you were to to look for the best insurance to start offering well i guess first of all do you have any ideas for what would be the best entry point for the white labeled new front insurance. We see in lots of different parts of our of our folio to give you one specific example that i think is pretty interesting is think about how restaurants have to buy. I insurance the way that most insurance carriers will price that risk is they'll look at total sales so how much is the restaurant selling and look at the percent of the sales that's alcohol and the reason why is because if you're running up our selling tequila shots will in. That's pretty risky right people. We're probably getting into bar fights. The funny thing is the other kind of restaurant that looks similar it has high sales and a large percentage of alcohol is actually white linen restaurants and so oftentimes they are some of the clients that have the hardest time finding the best coverage had a good price because they're getting unfairly penalised. It's not people buying tequila shots. It's people sipping on really fancy bottles of wine and then calmly walking out at the end of the night and yet the pricing hasn't evolved to to kind of give them that that better treatment. Have you started to chart a course for offering neck kind of insurance yes we we recently brought on a really key. Hire fire seems make diagnosis. He's been building these sorts of programs for over forty years in the industry and he's done it at many large national brokerages as well all as large carriers. How would you infuse that rate calculation process with technology because i mean that that's that seems like a big opportunity right like actually get actually calculating rates more intelligently yeah that's right and that's really where all all of this data comes in it the way you do. It is by looking at the data you have about the risk across many many different factors for example sales or percentage of sales that are alcohol and you look at data about pricing so how how is the market currently pricing the risk <hes> and then you look at the claims data so how often are these clients making claims. How severe are the claims. <hes> how much eventually gets paid out <hes> you can buy all these things to come up with a model. How is the emergence of cyber. Risk changed the market for insurance cyber. Risk is a really fascinating area and it's something that we we thought about a lot when we were starting to company that for the past one hundred years a lot of value has been locked away in in physical assets the building that you're sitting in right now or cars on the road road and for the next hundred years increasingly the most valuable data out there is is on computers in digital formats and cyber cyber. Insurance is is a little bit like the wild west right now. It's the it's the insurance markets trying to figure out how how can we price this risk. How likely are people to make claims and how severe are those claims uh-huh and what's really tough is unlike some of the conventional risks like a building burning down where it's a very clear outcome right. The building was on fire and now it's in ashes with digital claims. A hacker can breach your network steal a bunch of data and you'll never find out about it or you'll find out about it five years later and so building building building a model that can represent that kind of risk and price it effectively something that the insurance carriers are all trying to figure out a lot of start ups are also trying to figure out right now and what do they do today. Do they just dramatically err on the side of really expensive pricing it really varies i mean they there are data sets about breaches and losses in the event of a breach but oftentimes they're they're working off of really limited data and trying to figure out what's the best this way to to price the risk. What's an unconventional technology decision that you've made new front. One of the maybe surprising decisions that we made was building on top of salesforce early on the way that i think about what we're building is. We we have to make a lot of trade offs and decisions to actually operate operate this brokerage unlike pure software provider. We sit right next to our users so we're building software for brokers and account managers who who are interoffice every day and constantly making that build versus buy decision so one example of something we did early on as we could have built a lot of c._r._m. Functionality into our a product but instead we decided to just use salesforce off the shelf and we constantly have to make that trade off because brokers are savvy they can they can look out in the world and see other technologies out there and think hey. Why are we not using that. Why why do we need to build that in house. We always seem to justify you know the product prioritization organization that we're going through each you still built on salesforce or did you move off event. I'm so parts of the platform are still built on salesforce on for example a lot of the the reporting around. How is the business performing week over week. And how are we managing. Certain teams will push data into sales. It's worse but it's not the primary data store. Our back end is node with brass using a post crest. Database does regulation affect your business at all. It's definitely a factor one of the advantages though of being set up as a brokerage is that were not subject to as much regulatory overhead as a carrier which will have certain certain capital requirements and other regulations that they have to go through. Are there any interesting internal tools that you've built yeah. The example that i i i love pointing to is our ano- pipeline for parsing quote documents so this is normally a process that at a conventional brokerage might take a few hours where an account manager will wind up these p._d._f. Side by side on their either printed out or on their desktop and they'll just very manually copy and paste all the important piece of information like the premium the the limits the supplements and put that often into a word document so that they can make a proposal to their client. We've built is this this engine that takes in those five or six p._d._f.'s and instantly passes out the important pieces of information and shows it to that account manager in the actual proposal that they can send directly to the client and then of course the account manager can review the proposal and make any edits so let's say that we accidentally extracted attracted a number like one hundred thousand when we meant to extract a million they can make those tweaks and then send a link right away to the to that client and so we've taken something that normally takes a a few hours and it runs instantly and then obviously maybe takes ten minutes for the account manager review and your front knee. You'd like to build a business where you can have interactions between the engineering workforce and the brokers because if you're trying to improve the experience for brokers you wanna have some direct feedback. How do you structure the organization in a way where there is consistent and feedback between those brokers and the engineering team something that we think about a lot one of our core values is empower people. Oh it's really at the core of our business model and flows through everything that we do and so we really select for engineers that are excited about collaborating closely with their users <hes> and understanding. How is the product that i'm building. How is it being used in the world. It's you in other software companies. You might ships on thing and you know maybe you you look at some analytics data are you. You take a survey that gives you some information here. Were shipping software every day. Where if you ship something that has a bug you'll see someone jump up and and say hey this thing's broken or if you ship something a new feature for a broker. The broker's aren't in the office every day but when they stopped by they'll walk right up to you and say hey. I love this new thing. Can we make this future improve as well. One of the things that we've instituted is that when every engineer joins the team during their first week they spend a lot of time actually actually shadowing knowing the insurance professionals at the company and seeing what their day to day is like and how they're using the software and it really gives them spits on the ground experience of what's it. What's it at lake transacting insurance and using the tools that we're building all right to wind down. Is there anything you'd like to add about the long-term vision and for new front that we haven't covered. I think the the thing that i always like to point out is that there's such a trend in software right now of of software eating the world and and finding ways to replace an automated way people and what i love about what we're building is. This is a huge opportunity for human computer symbiosis versus. How do we use software to really empower and enable people. That's why our vision is a new front broker in every town in america. The software that we're building is literally the operating system. I'm of how they run their their work. <hes> and that's a really exciting exciting mission. That gets fired up every day gordon show. It's been really fun talking to you. Thanks jeff. When i was in college. I was always looking for people to start side projects with. I couldn't find anybody so i ended up working on projects by myself and then when i started working in the software industry i i started to look for people who i could start a business with and once again. I couldn't find anyone so i started a business myself and that's the podcast cast you're listening to but since then i've found people to work with on my hobbies and in my businesses and working with other people is much more rewarding than working alone. That's why i started find collapse. Find collapses a place to find collaborators and build projects on find collapse dot com. You can create new projects or joint projects that are already going. There are topic chat rooms where you can find people who are working in areas that you're curious about like crypto currencies or react or coober netties or view jay s us or whatever software topic you're curious about and we now have get hub integration so it's easier than before to create a find collapse this project for your existing gab projects. If you've always wanted to work on side projects or you wanna find collaborators for your side projects checkout find collapse. I'm on there every day and i'd love to see what you're building. I'd also love check out what i'm building. Maybe you'd be interested in working. Got it with me. Thanks for listening and i hope you check out find collapse <music> <music>.

insurance underwriter adobe account manager software engineer hartford
Ep.59  USA roadtrip  blockchain & insurance


23:30 min | 2 years ago

Ep.59 USA roadtrip blockchain & insurance

"The. Hello, hello. Hello, welcome to intra blocks. Your decade podcast to blockchain and smart contracts insurance industry. I'm will lead also conquer host apologies for not producing a podcast last week. But we've been on a two weeks road trip across the United States from Washington DC to Myrtle Beach in South Carolina to New York. And then to Hartford Connecticut before finishing off in Seattle throughout this trip. We did some spot interviews professionals to get their insights, whether or not blocked Tunas were hyped. And if it isn't what kind of value? Can we expect from it? Let's start interviews in merger beach while we spoke at the North American contigency association. Hi, nick. Do you wanting to do it yourself? Hi, I'm Nick Haynes, and I'm the co president of the North American, contingency association, also insurance underwriter working in the US, and with Lloyd's of London. Excellent. So we're here at your conference, and what is this conference objective? And why did you choose a sessional blockchain? Yeah, this group represents a sports, entertainment and leisure industry. What we define as contingency insurance, and we have the chance to bring in panelists to speak about various concepts going on in the insurance world. And this year we wanted to focus on emerging markets and emerging trends, and I felt like blockchain was going to be very interesting item to discuss with very engaging speaker to tell us a little bit about what we could expect in the future. So that when our bosses are CFO's come to us to say, we want to bring your product onto the blockchain what does that mean and? How potentially should we be looking at integrating indoor systems, and in your personal point of view and de believe Buckton is all hype? Or do you believe it's got real life potential in the insurance industry. I certainly hope and look forward to working within blockchain in the insurance industry. I think there is a lot of opportunities to get rid of this being a paper based transactional world, and that insurance will be able to work with big data. We'll be able to work with blockchain and decentralized, ledgers reach rekeying is a certainly a headache for every single aspect of the sales process. And as we look to limit Ricky in a limit administrative functions. I think one of the most interesting opportunities is to get rid of the dead weight in the in the chain and that make sure that everybody who's involved in the cycles, providing value. And that we do not have. A world where their brokers or insurers who are simply human fax machines that are just passing paper from one person to the next, and that everybody involved does add value, because of the blockchain is doing the background passing of paper accent. Thank you so much. Nick fishing, type high. So I'm here with Philippe machine from one beacon Philippe, can you tell me what you believe is too big or tune for blockchain insurance industry. Oh, do you believe it's all hype in a personal capacity? Please. Yeah, sure. As a private citizen. I don't know about for my company, but as a private citizen. I don't think it's all hype. I think that the hard thing with any new technology is that sometimes we all use the same word, but we're not all talking about the same thing. And I think that from my perspective as a as a guy who's been in a variety of businesses. I think that blockchain presents an opportunity, not just from a easing of complicated technical situations. Like. Transfer of data or passing around information. But also allows for an opportunity for us to have in business in general, sort of conceptual mind shift, right, where we start moving to an idea that even though maybe we compete with people for certain types of business in certain markets. It's better for all of us. If we sit down and. Share ideas and also share some share some resources in order to improve the experience of the customer, because at the end of the day for able to provide value to our customers that's going to be good for everybody. Right. Happier customers will create better outcomes for the entire industry. Whether it's insurance or it's banking, or it's, it's anything to is that to general as great. And but there's two key words here that come on one is a customer, Centric city, and the other one is digital, do you believe that the insurance industry can be both be developed customer, Centric potlucks and have digital mindset instead of using digital distribution? Customer Centric and digital. I think the digital piece is obviously the trickier one right? I'm not I'm not a digital expert by any stretch of the imagination. But from what I've seen of different, you know, whether it's brokers or carriers or anybody, it's like the people have a lot of money invested in legacy tack, and so. Integrating with that, or changing it over as is not a small feet, and that's people who are way above my pay grade organizations that have to deal with those kinds of problems. Do I think it'll help happen? Yeah, but I think it's going to be tomorrow. I think absolutely not. And I think that from from what I'm seeing probably the best way forward as we were having a conversation about small tests, and minimum viable products and proof of concepts. And I think that's a really good way to get started is to sort of, like see if we can find a way to get enough stakeholders around the table with enough. By and that we can create a little sandbox where we can start trying things right? Because when you have that much invested in your having to move forward. I mean, at least I would wanna make sure that I had something before I went with something right before you don't wanna tip over the whole applecart, just because you have an idea like, we wanna get out there, and maybe engage with some customers and see for meeting a need before before changes are happening from Myrtle Beach, we, then headed to New York, where there we met Dempsey lowly, who works at we work, and then following that we rent, a very exciting workshop on our threes headquarters, where we had participants from all kinds of industries, looking at sharing their best practice on blockchain, but also to join valuate how we could interconnect our industries, using technology have listened high. So I'm here with Dempsey Luli, the H Q. We work each Q two. We were offices in New York. Hi, Dempsey, T when introduce. Yourself and tell us de believed blockchain is over hyped or not I will lead. Thank you for taking the time today. My name is Dempsey William, the risk insurance administrator for we work. I pretty much manage all of the insurance and responded, -ment go belly. A my thoughts on blockchain being over hype, obviously, I am a fan of blockchain so there is no over hype here. But my real concern is how can we find uses for blockchain in these different industries, especially in insurance, which is why I'm a big fan of your insure blocks podcast. And how can we get people like me to start thinking from a blockchain perspective? How do we think of use cases to apply in our industries, and in our professions, so in terms of it being over hyped I actually think it's undervalued right now and under hyped, you know? And that's that's pretty much my personal opinion on that. Excellent. So what would help you I guess, is more use cases of hides. It presently used in the insurance industry to perhaps, give you ideas on how you could replicate that, or do you think there's also room for some kind of a blueprint guide to follow when a denting use cases, that could be applicable for your industry for your business. I think there is a need for a blueprint or a guide of some sort to show the typical Lehman or the professional in his field how to apply that knowledge from tech blockchain perspective and apply to his industry. So we can better find uses of it because one of the major problems, I have as responded insurance professional is I know my industry. I just don't know how to apply blockchain to the industry, and maybe some sort of guide or some examples out there of how to do it will help. But I cannot seem to find that resource anywhere. Okay. Well, don't worry about it insure logs provide you that kind of guide, and we look forward to hearing your development on blockchain near feature. Thank you very much for your time. Thank you so much relieved on, you're welcome. We work anytime. Hi, we're here at our threes. A New York office, and we just completed the blockchain cross interestingly t workshop. So you could please tell us your name, the industry, you're in and do you believe boxing, over hyped? And if not, what use cases, using blockchain has really paternity great. Thank you very much Phillipines Berg with Arbel, Inc. Which is a parametric insurance platform that uses smart contracts, and we use the blockchain. Do I think blockchain is over height? Yes and no, I think blockchain has a big future. I think some people with old new technologies will try to include it anything that's popular or anything like that. When dot com was a big thing, people just put their names as dot com and so forth, but that any like any fab will go in and out blockchain is a real. Component of the immutability is. Immeasurable. There's certain aspects that are can be attributed to all industries, not every industry. Not every component of every industry needs blockchain, but there's definitely use for it, and it's very exciting to see every street looking at it. We are using the blockchain as a way of providing comfort to ensure ease and insurers to make sure not only that the premiums get paid, but that the policy gets paid on their very clear criteria in smart contract, and that it's done automatically we never touch the money and we never touch the data. And so it's automatic. And I think that component gives a lot of comfort to both. It's completely transparent. And the data is immutable, so regulators and government officials can. In look at all aspects. And it's on the blockchain so from that standpoint, we think it's great great. Thank you very much high. So thank you very much for participating in these blockchain cross industry into Reveille, t-, workshop, could you tell me what is your name, and the company you work for? And do you believe tunes of our height? And if not in what ways easing blockchain, can really add value. My name is Laura. I'm from Pfizer? Pfizer is a pharmaceutical company. I definitely don't believe blockchain is over hyped. But it has a lot of potential people has to understand the value of this technology. If we understand and come up with a good use case immutability, and the distributor, ledger, technology it will take us so far, and obviously, I look forward to see good. Blockchain, use case live in pharmacy. Tickle industry. Thank you so much floor. So hi, Mike. So you're, you're already been on our podcast from from nationwide. A couple of months ago. And so here we are at our threes. New York office, where we ran a blockchain workshop regarding cross industry. Enter ability and chambers best practice, so two very simple questions. Do you believe blockchain is over hyped? And if not, what kind of future do you believe it can have? So the first question's a really interesting one. Is it over hyped? I don't believe it's over hyped. I believe the hype is a per preate for where Blockchain's potential is. I do think that it's going to be a little while before blockchain delivers against that potential. So that's the one thing I'm a little cautious when it comes to blockchain, but I think the, the potential upside for blockchain is huge. I think that there is an opportunity for this technology to maybe go as far as replacing relational databases someday. As a core technology platform, that's ubiquitous within our industry. Now. Maybe it won't make it that far. But I think it's, it's quite possibly got that kind of upside. And so I'm very bullish on on the opportunities. I love the unique value proposition. The blockchain brings to the table, and I'd love for us to figure out how to get this thing moving a little bit faster. Great, thank you so much high. So you just participate in the blockchain interoperability workshop here at our three in New York, could you let me know, do you believe blockchain, over hyped? And if not in what ways eating Blockchain's got real paternity in your opinion. If you tell us your name and the company for industry your insurance, so my name is Tomer Sar. We'd TV construction consultant. Enjoyed it today. I don't believe it's over hyped. But the timeframe is what I'm having a hard time visualizing. I believe probably something that would transform a lot aspects in our industry, just went and where we, we just trying to figure that out. Yes. Great. Thank you so much from New York skyscrapers. We then headed to Hartford Connecticut, where we gave a blockchain presentation and ran a dog. Chain workshop to the Connecticut, captive Insurance Association and whilst with their we did some quick interviews was quite a few of their participants, including regulator their high. So I'm here with Steven censo-. We're here in Hartford, Connecticut. Stephen introduce yourself and answer, the question, do you believe Dhaka's over hyped? Hi aid. Yes, I'm the current president of the Connecticut, captive Insurance Association, consulting actuary with Milliman. No, I certainly think the, the potential is real, there's certainly some evidence of that are ready as I've heard, you say, you know, technology sometimes gets over hyped at the outset, but over the long term is rather under hyped. And so, I think I'm a believer and I, we've already seen some examples in the captive industry. I think they'll be more as we move over time. As an actuary, certainly, I'm very interested in how the blockchain in Iraq's with artificial intelligence and internet of things, and, and, and all of the other new technologies out there as well. Thank you know, what was really great about, you know, your event here is that you had not just captive insurance. You also had to regulators that were present and there seemed to been this real desire to put Connecticut on the map into be known Renou around the world as a center of excellence cat insurance. Do you believe that Connecticut can also be taking the lead in jobs? What is digital and embracing blockchain and other new technologies. And. Has to offer to catavzsr insurance. I certainly do. And what I've been espousing in my year and a half as the president of the association. Is that Connecticut in Hartford in particular as well, has a very unique situation where we are essentially the insurance capital of the world? Arguably, we have a very vibrant insure tech community over the last few years with a couple of organizations, and we also have captive insurance, that's thriving as well. And there's really no other jurisdiction in the US that has those three in combination. Like we do. And so I think with the state support where with the new Commissioner that we have in place in a lot of changes new governor with that support. And with all these organizations working collaboratively, I think we've got very good potential. Excellent. Thank you so much even. Hi. I'm with Christopher gala. You're the Connecticut insurance regulator, and we're here in Hartford, so could you please introduce yourself at the same time? Tell me do you believe blockchain is over hyped. My name's Christopher Gallo, and I'm not the lead regulator. I my boss was unable to be here today. But talking about blockchain, my son in law, who studies blockchain all the time you always tell me about how transparent it is. And he always keeps on telling me says, dad, you gotta get involved with this. You just can't say all your old and you're going to move away from this and then release that today as well. So I've got I'm trying to educate myself on that. I do think it's at the cutting edge like like you said, the internet of things and everything and things like that. And, and got so many advantages, I haven't heard of one disadvantage. So it's not over height. I think it's here to stay and only to grow excellent. Now as a regulator. Do you believe that Connecticut has a real opportunity to embrace blockchain, I would see to put Connecticut on the map as being a truly digital insurance state around the world? I do believe it. And I think it might be led by the millennial generation. I've got four daughters, and they're married. And they're my son's inlaws. And they're very technologically savvy. I seen how, how innovative that whole generation is, whether it's Facebook or Google. So this new technology is not going away. And I see that type of attitude amongst the younger generation, so we my older generation, I'll be sixty in January, we have to pay attention to them, and we have to take their lead. So I believe that we are open to this digitized economy. Yes perfect. Thank you so much. Chris, thank you. Hi, was janea could you please introduce yourself and tell me do you believe blockchain is over height or not? Hi, I'm Jane Anne Lubin sa-, France come aboard member of a and I've been an attorney practicing in the captive area for more than forty years. I don't think you can hype blockchain enough. I think that it has potential for almost every industry every line of business and everyone who's interested in digging into their data in an organized way, so that they can move forward. The is the Connecticut captive insurance, sociation, could you tell us a little bit about that association. Perhaps, how do you believe boxing can work that association? Sure, we're in association, Connecticut. Connecticut formed, a captive law a little bit later than other the other United States domiciles. But we're now ramping up so that we can attract more innovative business to Connecticut, and hopefully bring the captive concept to them for their risk alternative risk management, alternative. I think the place imperative role in education, I there are so many industries that don't understand blockchain. They don't understand captive. They don't understand the technology that literally is at their fingertips. You don't have to be a fortune five hundred company to benefit from blockchain or to benefit from captive and so. Oh, we're hoping as an industry to spread the message to take the light out from under the bushel, and to make sure that people understand that the potential here is there for every business. That was brilliant. Thank you so much high. So Christopher day where here in Hartford, Connecticut. So Christopher could you. Please introduce yourself and tell us do you believe balking over hyped or not sure, my name is Chris, and I work for myself, I'm a blockchain entrepreneur, and I don't feel that blockchain over hyped. Like you feel that you have to answer a very critical question before you ever think about looking blockchain is what business problem in my trying to solve with the technology, you can't solve business problems. You can't solve TEC for TEC sake. We have to always all of this problem. So that's my leading my leading peace, and that's an excellent one. And my question to you is because you've been here for two years. And do you believe in the insurance industry is ready to? Embrace technology or not. I think the insurance is slowly understanding that they need to understand they embrace it. I don't think they fully understand what it can view, what kind of problems it can solve. I don't think they're looking at it quite base in basic steps like data protection and security, basic, creating golden records of record keeping the probably edit that, but that's really the right. Thank you so much. Chris, hi, could you? Please introduce yourself. And let me know, do you believe blockchain? Is it over hype are not? I'm Don wear wear consulting board member, Connecticut captive, I believe there's a place for blockchain. I'm not sure it's a little bit over height. But I do think there's applications for it. I think it's definitely going to come by people are really excited about now. And they don't really understand it. But I definitely think the distributed ledger, especially close ones where you have companies like groups of insurers who are in transactions together can each have their own node and, and go through transactions, whether it be property or notices of loss. Those types of things I definitely think blockchain has a place. It's just going to take a little while to get there were insurance. And do you believe that Connecticut captive insurance market is one that could embrace blockchain, perhaps, over Vermont say, so? Well, you know, I think the one thing about Connecticut is we are trying. To be innovative. We, we have obviously many fewer captives in Vermont has. But the ones we have are definitely on the cutting edge. And so, I think, because of that we would definitely our regulators and the talent we have here would be embracing blockchain. Thank you so much.

blockchain blockchain Connecticut New York Hartford Connecticut United States Hartford Nick Haynes insurance underwriter Myrtle Beach captive Insurance Association president North American contigency asso Seattle Chris Buckton Ricky South Carolina CFO
Ways To Change Society  Episode 2

The Pig Wrestlers

29:59 min | 2 months ago

Ways To Change Society Episode 2

"The joke you're listening to the pig wrestlers a podcast where ray knight are review. Put never wrestle with a pig by mccormack while we'd be. Us markets now gone. The robin hood is still has basically been the Wall street bets gang for trading on incredible. It's up seventy percent from yesterday. Is that is that everyone else piling. And do you think. I mean i have the information sake but what i will say is. It's incredible that this group of people are still able to to keep this going considering what they're facing like with with robin hood basically saying we were allow you to buy anymore. This will help you sell it if you wanted to yet that yeah commission much i. They sold it to the hedge. Funds right and hedge funds are losing money as kerr's just a when incredible human story of people coming together to to make something until the report is sub until it gets subverted by someone else. Maybe actually you know what's going to be really interesting to see what the regulators coming do because the wall street spat gang are out in the public. It's a public forum. Anybody can read. It does not like colluding private But robin hood shutting them down like selectively shutting down access to the market. That's scholley something. The regulator should come in and investigate. I think it's all going to depend on. What is in the direct interests of the regulator in the markets. And my guess and is purely a guess is that they'll probably full on the side of the wall street kind of traditional hedge funds. And you know there was the usual gang. I just because i did my. I just my cmap Exams so that the mortgage advice practice. And so there's a mortgage along financial regulation in here says specifically. Fca is here to protect the consumer. Yes but that's the fca here. What it right. So that's fine yeah. The the regulatory bodies exist in uk are generally sets up to bias towards the consumer. Whether it's the fca your or vary some boozman energy ombudsman or whatever else so they are actually biased not even equal and and but they make it clear that their job is to biased towards conceived because the consumers usually at a disadvantage to the organizations that they're trying to clear out so that's fine but in in the in the us. I don't think there is that same imbedded protection of the individual of the consumer that we have here in the uk. So for me. I think that you know when when when the regulators going to be looking at what's going on is probably decide in the best interests of the financial markets and this kind of volatility and disruption. That is being necessarily caused by wall. Street bets game stop and so on is probably running counter to their desire for stability and predictability to an extent so i would be very surprised if the us regulation does anything that helps the the wall street bets gang just because i think it runs counter to there to their perceived best state of what they want to achieve. It'll be interesting to watch over the next week. See what happens. politicians then regulators Stop to realize that actually This is good. The shines light on. What's going on. People can ask questions and research and educate themselves on how things work in what happens if we'll see what happens if his really interesting right now. Yeah well it's one of one. I think one of a few things is going to happen. One is they're going to learn. People are gonna learn how to replicate this kind of scenario and use it for the benefit. The the risk here is that the the points this is being made about how a collective can disrupt the financial markets so dramatically can be in this case. It's not the same but it's showing it's one of the side effects at least and the problem here is that i think people are seeing the effect of the doing rather than the so the getting the point and the intent or why they're doing it but the problem here is that what people are seeing is something. This is a very effective intervention to disrupt markets and if and bad actors or did people just want to gear the systems that they can make a ton of cash. Very quickly bloomer. Certainly be taking those and figuring. How can we do this again. On on demand by pushing the button was a fairly unique stance where a stop was shorted to more than one hundred percent of his issued stock but nassar they sure but now now that patch has been recognized unless something fundamentally changes in the way things work anytime that happens again either deliberately or otherwise people will spot and pounce on it and the same thing will happen but is not the point is that the market can solve correct is it will conceive themselves and go. Oh there's an opportunity to take advantage. I'm gonna take the vaunted gentlemen fix this but is this an arbitrage is what possibly i think more the point here is is the situation is the is this remedy to the situation of over shorted stock Necessarily the best outcome with right tackle. Yes you've highlighted the problem and yes they're causing problem for shorts from shortsellers but is the effect is the kind of the consequences of what they've done necessarily better than the original situation. But if you were always game for the status quo which they are. I know you won't be election but we don't want to disturb the economy too much so you can have so many people come into our party. We'll still run the country and you can have a little bit of say. Well i think it's it's it's i think it's less about supporting the status quo. It's more about if you are seeing. There's kind of a if the remedy is more disruptive than the original state of being. Is that necessarily step in the right direction. So you know if if you're the loving pebbles into the punt to create ripples d love and a stick of dynamite then this kind of it seems like This'll they listening. Nobody's doing anything about his stick of dynamite. This is the problem is that i think is the is the point that they're making very dramatically being mosque the by the means by which they've said it so it's kind of almost like the difference between a peaceful protests and violent protest in everything. Everything that we know in the west is being built offer. People dying you know the it. The american revolution the us would not exist in. Its free form without the violence. Sure but it doesn't necessarily it doesn't retrospectively justify the conflict that had to occur before hunt for that state to merge basically there's everywhere that we have a stable structure there was instability before that's just normal natural way of things isn't it things have to be broken destroyed to be built up again. I don't i don't necessarily agree with. I don't think that you have to burn something to the ground in order to build something better. I appreciate that some things should be put to one side or dismantle but not necessarily so so dramatically so violently if discourse and asking nicely doesn't work what you do well this we're seeing. He grieved and taking taking things across the line because they know the choice. I think they're dangerous to realize to to come to the conclusion that the only way to change. Societal change is through extreme measures. Whatever those measures might be a think. I'm not saying it's the only way. I'm just saying history has shown it tends to be the way it tends to be the way but it shouldn't have to be right but you know. How else have you seen. Change happen beyond disease coming in out something or war coming in changing things. So one of the ways. In which i think change can happen is through the The openness of information tool so systems that essentially created a a bias towards people who held him formation versus people who didn't have access to that information either assistant mathematically or socially or whatever else allowed those systems to persist As soon as you get to the point where information is. Open an available tool To the same degree both fact fix shouldn't opinion whatever but as soon as everyone has access to the same information then the system can start to change. because there's no imbalance. There's no kind of imbalance of power between those who have information or then can form opinions and knowledge and action from that people. That don't and i think this example with game stop romans is access is in effect. A demonstration of a soon as a playing field becomes more level and access to information and access to the same system on the same basis becomes available then change disruption can happen to take a slightly less dramatic example. Think about how the mortgage and or the insurance car insurance market changed as soon as information ceased to be held only by insurance brokers underwriters but then suddenly became available to the wider public through comparison sites through the internet three information that basically exposed the information more broadly and more equally and then suddenly the industry changed because it could persist in the same multiple whereby people could shop around more easily for Insurance that provided the better premium or for better betterment the needs look you make a really good point but that car insurance poids is an interesting is worth a deep dive but just on the surface the same insurance is still dominating. The industry nothing has really changed except for their profit margins. You don't have farah practices in the way Younger drivers treated or older drivers of cheated or even disabled drivers treated you know the the algorithms are insurance and people that run the insurance companies and a friend of mine Freddie mcnamara runs cover which is one of the newer insurance and they tried to release a new interim for. It's great but they can't go as deep as they'd like mikan because there isn't enough change there isn't enough disruption that they can full with just the sharing of information things need to break for them to be able to have the excuse to say you know what fixing vicks because they read broken so yes to an extent but just the fact that we're able to recognize that there are still algorithm ick biases in the risk profile tables that ensure still use against young drivers old driver as people with disabilities or whatever else the fact that that is now. More widely known and people can actively research alternatives counting. There's there's always going. There's always going to be a a an insurer or an underwriter that will choose to use a different set of risks or accept the different level of risk to their competitors in order to win business at a high price sometimes insurance and mortgages at all financial products is if you want to serve the under served you got a nice fat margin for thank you very much. Yes but if that means win the business because you're prices are competitive than ultimately there will be organizations that decides to cater specifically to more perceived risky groups of people or segments in the market. And i think the fact that you know people are able to see that kind supply and demand. It's either you know you can either choose to win business of which yes. It may be more risky but you still by virtue of gathering that market towards you even within that segment. there's gonna be a risk profile. Somebody more risky than others. So i think just by virtue of the fact that the information is become more available as a opened up the markets be easier for people who would otherwise have got no insurance a tool to get some insurance. And i think it probably has had the net effect on driving down prices because the increased competition means that you have a certain level of risk and that means that you are you willing to accept a certain level of risk in your portfolio so as an insurance underwriter. You're going to decide what your target market is going to be. And that's fine but it also means that there is room for people to accept risk positions and less risky positions scope that while yes prices did come down dramatically and you had less chance of being over ear at off. It's still entrenched power of the incompetence. Now the prices were lower. Would you really have johnston getting your insurance company into the market dancers has been very difficult. It is difficult. But then they said the same thing about challenger banks and all it took these joke the the getting getting business getting business. They're getting business the same size as how many people do you know that. Use a monster called for the spending but actually still have that paycheck during lloyd's. Hsbc or something else couldn't tell you might have been paid by people who have monzo cards whether there goes in circles. Couldn't tell you well you could see in the amount of deposits they have. This account is really low but then there is this even even worse right the the business model of her bank. Which is why you'd get a banking licence. Which is why. I think revolut really one is because mullins which was the first move of the near banks because the stall include left They chased the banking license and then have never gone a set about lending. which is the business model. You know you get a bank license. You can access overnight. Money from the bank of england then lend lend yet multiples your deposits. They haven't done that happening built processes you've seen a recent press release by stalling saying now that we've taken advantage of the coronavirus business intervention loan scheme to turn a profit thanks to document on his loans. We're gonna go to figure out how to do all the bank for how many years and you don't know how to do lending. I wouldn't invest in that. I don't trust the big banks. I think the systems are awful and they don't allow me easy access to my money. I don't trust them but you guys don't seem to have flute was revolution. We don't care about banking we know you care about your money. We know you don't wanna be off. And while monza was saying he has instant- notifications revolution was saying his. Never being ripped off fx again. Take this cod wherever you travel. And you'll have to be ripped off facts and so the to you biggest winners of that period. Fintech translate wise. Revolut they hit upon the thing that people cared about most deeply. Why am i being ripped off for transferring money across borders. Yes a i would love of these. These fintechs stick it to the banks business. Banking personal is. We haven't been taken care of record vehemently lated not being given much choice. So this is this is the thing where the bars almost become so low particularly business banking the. It doesn't take much for a challenge of bank to kind of come in an even if they're not acting like a bank the very fact that they're doing very basic things better and more reliably than the established banks makes enough is enough of a disruption overjoyed to leave. Hsbc behind as my business bank because it was genuinely Emotionally traumatic to attempt to ever deal with them on the phone or in person whatever because it was just horrific and yeah i totally accept the fact that the bank moved to when the challenger banks is never going to provide me with with any sensible interest but then again neither was hsbc. I appreciate that. They don't have necessarily the depth of financial stability. That's one of the existing. Traditional banks has but you know. Walk for the purpose of what i need to do right now on a daily basis. I'm willing to take that risk and accept that compromise. The things that worry you about the challenger banks not take the acting like banks are not taking advantage of the ability to lend a hand sewn on the sleeping on a day-to-day basis. Doesn't bother me the slightest. Because genuinely got to the point where i just want to be able to transfer ethic money from here to there without your system falling earlier or breaking or getting it wrong. I don't care about transferring from natwest Account and had to call them up like are they formed that she had the old them up. I agree and that's the thing and this is this is the problem is that yes the higher order things that you're talking about absolutely important but genuinely were in such a position where the basic stuff is in catered for the. It's like it's a no brainer. it's i just wish. I just wish they'd do more. Wish they wipe the floor with these these incumbent. I guess that's my disappointment. Is that they haven't they haven't leveraged banking funding to fix mortgages to fix hustle loans to fix business loans. Like why was it. Up to the government to underwrite and force the neobanks tied installing completely. Dropped the ball in the beginning completely audible. And then obviously you know finally got in on the act lending off the back of the the government's underwriting or governments backstop but the the fact is they went prepared for it. That's just not acceptable an mortgages mortgages a crying out for somebody other than the big six lenders control x sixty six moke lending. yeah to actually Even sledding differentiate you how 'bout digital application for crying out loud you it takes to get a mortgage is five hours just apply for the mortgage five hours unusually. Oh that's a lapse over five weeks. I totally get all of that. I do the thing is. Is that the the the reason why we brought up the the challenge banks neobanks was because the the moments the regulator made it easier to get a banking license or allow reduced the barrier to entry for organization. Suddenly you had the Flourishing of several challenges banks once and absolutely some will succeed some will fail and so and so forth but the point being the fighting the very fact that they exist the tool is because of a a opening of the environments of the system to allow people to participate in a more level basis. Which brings us back. You know sort of unraveling the layers. A conversation back to that kind of idea of making the information more freely available on level basis so that people are actually playing in the same game with the cards not stacked against them And i think if you apply that concept to many other situations There's currently imbalance of power either knowledge or an influence or whatever By leveling the playing field to an extent allows alternative situations to occur alternative outcomes to occur unless change to happen without necessarily as we said that kind of violent incursion took force something different to have to make the point all saying it where you know breaking the banks which should have happened in two thousand and eight would be in a much better outcome we would have had. This happened a long time ago with real real challenge. The challenge bike sometimes the banks. The banks making more profits than they ever have done like. The is horrific to me in making more profit ever have dumb. I i would like to believe that when something comes along that a sufficiently better at serving the needs of the people that need to use the thing in a way that is functionally stables in other words. This is going to catch far the moment. Use it as long as something. Something like that comes along. We should just see a massive influx of people from the incumbents to the challenges whether it's banks or whatever else the problem is it. The moment is that particular. Mary's like banking. It's not just about having the features the capabilities. It's having the trust and for the and things like that can only be earned by virtue of not catching fire over a period of time. So that they're no longer seniors so the problem is there's no easy shortcuts in her The number scandal going through instill wire. It's a minor conflagration somewhere else. Either sub the put that firearm over there appears to be toasting toast slightly. Hsbc at the massive scandal only recently about money laundering. Right fine dislike investors sharp rise. Three care is fine us. They do this thing you know. It doesn't make any difference that should doubt things like that should totally destroy them in. If you can't trust the people who have responsibility for your money and for keeping economies moving to act it a ethical manner than what the hell can you do me. Its really simple. The regulators sponsored by the stake. I'm not fit for purpose. Bill have a license to hold on. Money is just not right. They should have been shut down. There's no there's no way that all the people that perpetrated. Pbr scandals These accounting scandals. How you p w c. And all of these big accounting firms e. y. After all the ordered scandals that they suffered still allowed to. Would it not. good it absolutely. And you'd think you know it's not like we're having to the example. Like enron and say was accenture anderson. Calm arthur andersen was the auditor on that one is like that and yet twenty years twenty years later still still stroke. Everyone's no problems here. But this is the thing the regulations don't have the regulators are afraid that if they remove such a fundamental block of the wall the whole thing will come crashing down because there aren't enough supporting blocks or turn to me the actually taking the out. It's all things come crashing down another another wave getting hurt Maybe it needs to come down for something better to here. Yeah but not because somebody's going in blown up the bank from the inside as long as it's not necessarily they did the things enron financial crisis the regulators had done. Nothing they still exist. What do what do the people have to do to be rid of the people controlling our money and think not airbus. I think. I think the incentives to do it better battery a different way lead by example

ray knight robin hood nassar Freddie mcnamara mikan mccormack uk kerr us Hsbc farah mullins monza bank of england johnston Us lloyd natwest
The U.S. campaign trail is actually quite secure.

The CyberWire

19:16 min | 1 year ago

The U.S. campaign trail is actually quite secure.

"Hello everyone and welcome to the cyber wires research Saturday presented by juniper networks. I'm Dave Bittner and this is our weekly conversation with researchers analysts tracking down threats and vulnerabilities solving some of the hard problems of protecting ourselves in a rapidly evolving cyberspace. Thanks for joining us and now a word from our sponsor juniper networks it goes without saying that we are in an ever changing world and change keeps going faster and faster. This ever accelerating. Pace is not new but we find ourselves in an environment where we must respond to this change at the same speed as it comes at us but we as we all know have a hard time keeping up or security professionals the need to keep up is essential juniper connected security is responding to what is happening in the market the convergence of infrastructure and traditional security and this puts juniper in a unique position to solve customers needs connect with juniper during a virtual summit on May Fourteenth Two thousand twenty to learn more visit summit dot juniper dot net that's summit dot juniper dot net and we thank juniper networks for sponsoring our show thanks to our sponsor in Vail whose revolutionary zero reveal solution protects data while it's being used or processed the holy grail of data encryption in Vail delivers privacy preserving capabilities to enable critical business functions organizations can securely derive insights process match and search third party data assets without ever revealing the contents of the interaction or compromising the ownership of the underlying data what was once only theoretical is now possible with in Vail learn more at in Vail Dot Com. We did a report out. Six months prior were looked at the cybersecurity of all the political parties small and large domestic and abroad. That's Paul Gilardi. He's the head of threat. Intelligence Enciso at security scorecard. The research were discussing today is titled Twenty Twenty Democratic Presidential Candidates get smart to cybersecurity a detailed investigation by the security scorecard threat intelligence team. We got really good coverage without especially following the well reported interference attempts at the election. Twenty sixteen. We wanted to make sure that we're seeing some changes both in the political parties and candidates themselves as it relates to their cyber security posture. So give me an idea of what you were setting out to examine here. Went the political party report. We really just wanted to assess Their maturity level on. How seriously they seem to be taking cybersecurity from an external only perspective and without being intrusive or needing permission to necessarily pen test and that report we were. We are somewhat disappointed in the parties themselves. There are some glaring holes in minor parties and especially those abroad the two main parties in the US seemed to have their act together to a degree but there was certainly room for improvement so when we took a glance at this at the specific candidates I was anticipating sort of the same results that we'd have varying quality of defense systems or or maturity in place to our surprise. They seem to be well positioned. We used our tool to to sort of off the interrogation and we really dug into the entire external footprints of these candidates and after looking at the the parties I was anticipating some large holes or flaws in their in their software or defense mechanisms. And that really wasn't the case so as you know as an American voter I was proud to say that. It does seem that the candidates themselves are taking cybersecurity and the hygiene of that quite seriously. Can you give us some insights? I mean what is the setup of a typical political campaign? That's being run at this level in in terms of The types of things that that would require their attention when it comes to cybersecurity. I mean at this point. I can't pain is almost completely digital and to reach their constituents From from email marketing to now virtual campaigns to accepting donations to just organizations it requires a litany of different technical resources and and types of offering so to properly simulate a properly stand up campaign you have to leverage quite a few different technical disciplines in terms of being able to accept donations securely being able to maintain a list of all those voters or potential voters that you're trying to market to it's probably matured quite a bit since thirty years ago where it was paper and paper and pencil and door knocking. It's now primarily I guess a digital exercise and I suppose it's I mean it's fair to say these are basically high-velocity small businesses. Your exactly I I. It's a kindle. Almost start up like they. They have very specific goals. And they are focused primarily on that. And we've seen another startups that to get that product to market. They'll sometimes be lackadaisical about other things and that's not necessarily their fault. It's just that their business requirements are to get the product or get their offering out there just says with this political campaigns their their objective is to get their message to reach voters And we were initially anticipating. Perhaps that blinded by that objective only they might be lax about cybersecurity. And I'm happy to say it doesn't seem like that was the case that they they balanced their objectives with with also promoting cybersecurity defences and proper hygiene in balance with those objectives. Which is the job of NEC? So my job is to implement defense or policy but also balance that with how that's going to impact my business or my primary objective. Well let's walk through the research here together What were some of the areas that you examined so our product is you can think of it sort of like a credit rating here security scorecard. We offer a credit rating. Except it's representative of your of your cyber security posture. So it's an eighth letter rating and it's often used in third party risk vendors management so. The grades updated every single day. And if I'M A if I'm a fortune five hundred I might want to know of all the ten thousand vendors that use which ones of those are risky or having some signs of indicators of compromise that might be reflective of future breach so we put that tool and we pointed it towards all of the. I think at the time there was fifteen or so candidates and sort of let it do its thing and create a a risk rating on top of that. The research team really dug into the specific findings to contextualized them. To maybe expand on the types of things that are product doesn't do at scale and part of that is sort of defining a digital footprint so if I look at Bernie Sanders. What are all of his digital assets that are public facing in the Internet and that's sort of the foundation of what we call a scorecard so if we can define all those assets and then start to look for hygiene issues as it relates to how they're configured or how they were purchased or how they were deployed? That's sort of what? What what start the process on top of that. Then we're really digging into maybe more indepth of findings without being intrusive or requiring permission. We obviously never stepped over any legal boundaries. But you know we had ex pen testers. That were making sure everything within those offering say. The website that accepts donations entre is dotted and T.'s. Recrossed. Well let's go through some of the specifics together can you share some of the The specific things that you took a closer look at. I think one thing that was really interesting where we found. Some ingredients findings were applications. That are not necessarily sanctioned by the campaign manager or by the candidates but they do represent potentially the user base of that voter so for for Andrew Yang. There was a sort of a website where you can organize with other constituents and plan events or just communicate. It's not an officially sanctioned Andrew Yang website but to your common voter. It might not be clear that it's not and we went through that same rigorous testing and with with that application it was just completely void of any security controls. We were able to quickly show across site scripting air. Where if we were malicious nature. We could have exploited quite a number of users. We did disclose that to the creators of the website. We never heard back. I actually tried to reach out to Andrew Yang's campaign as well just to let them know that even though you're not officially developing this application it is impacting potentially your voters. I didn't hear back from him either. But that's one example of of sort of the agree just findings that we did. We did see. I was hoping from a research perspective. We'd find more examples like that. Luckily as an American voter we didn't find many of those on the on their official campaign applications or or product offering other some interesting things. You dig in here. One of them is You looked at the top hosting platforms that they were using and Seemed like one organization stood out from the crowd. Can you take us through what your research found here? Yeah so we quickly deemed that it seems like when you set up a digital campaign. You're not writing any of the software or your applications yourself. You're you're leaning on third parties that provide an offering that does that specifically and I think it was by sea. So hat on. I think that's the right approach. I don't want to necessarily write my own. Donation ACCEPTANCE SOFTWARE OR OR MY MASS E. Mailing campaign like. There's that's a tried and true. Products that have been vetted by security professionals are used across industries. And that's the approach seemingly that these candidates took I wouldn't be surprised even though I haven't verified it but I would I would guess that the DNC or some other organization like that likely offered A. Hey if you're GONNA set up a campaign here are some vendors that we at least recommend wasn't mandated. But if I had to guess it was sort of like the. Dnc offered a candidate in the box. And here's the vendors that you can go to and there's a there's a litany of they offer different types of services from act Lou To mobilize America action kits. They offer different types of of either platforms or services to those candidates and we applied the same rigorous testing to those vendors so our product is designed to assess the risk of using a vendor so we just pretended I was the sea so the DNC. And it's like okay. Let's let's assess all these third parties that we you know people seem to be recommending to our candidates and again. Luckily there wasn't any glaring holes. We were I was anticipating to find some large security vulnerabilities or or just really poor hygiene and these vendors and they also have their act together. I look at a lot of other companies and in different sectors or different parts of this world. And that's just not true like just a basic pen test or basic security assessment find glaring holes with the candidates and their third parties. That they chose they are taking cybersecurity seriously as from what we can see externally obviously have no insight into necessarily their policies or their training of employees but from what they expose externally. I would say that it does seem like. They learned their lessons from twenty sixteen. Yeah in looking at your results here. I mean pretty much across the board I think it's fair to say. Overall they got high marks. Yeah there were some Some lower higher ones I always tabby our grading with a beer and a is actually quite good. We've proven that if you have a CD or your five times more likely to be breached. We've we validate that intern lane. Had A insurance writer under an insurance underwriter. Validate that as well. So the difference between a ninety seven and ninety four. I generally don't pinpoint on that much. All the candidates were within the the high. Be To a range of the same can be said about their third parties If there was like a CD. Or that's where I would really raise the alarm but I don't necessarily consider that much difference between ninety seven and ninety four but we did. We did to find that in a report where there any particular areas where they need some attention. It's it's a lot of like general web security application development hygiene like how you redirect from http to an https site. There's a really secure way to implement that. For some of these candidates they might have been missing old tags. Especially if you view it in an outdated browser again the the exploitability of that scale or the importance of that is is maybe not as impactful as say like having database open on the internet or something like that again like the the findings. Were rather hygienic if you really wanted to get in the weeds there. There were some basically web application development processes that they could improve on slightly and we're also happy to share this for any candidate wants to join this platform. I guess they're sort of ceasing. Their campaigns at this point of what we're happy to share that and let them access the platform have the full details of what those hygiene findings that were were showing them. Obviously one of the things that Takes place in any political campaign fundraising You got a lot of money. Exchanging hands there And that can put a target on your back. What sort of stuff did you see when you looked at the various platforms? These candidates used for fundraising so we didn't necessarily know how they're storing that money or or accounting for it it does seem like they're leaning on third parties such as act blue or action kid or blue state these are sort of platforms that are able to take in money via either. Pay Powell or some other sort of point in sales system to to securely transact that I'm happy to say that no campaign attempted to implement that themselves that's not an easy task to properly securely parse credit card information enact the transaction and and follow through with that so they leaned on third parties which is exactly what if you or. I were developing website to try to accept donations. You wouldn't write it yourself. And the candidates heated that recommendation. So one of the take homes here that In this era after some of the things we went through in two thousand sixteen I guess. The campaigns have taken notice and they've they've adopted So many of these best practices. It seems like overall. They're up to speed. Yeah I I would say that the You know a year ago. The parties were getting there but they weren't there yet especially the minor ones. They were not taking cybersecurity series. I'd hoped in this twenty twenty election late twenty thousand nine candidates I would say overall the the message was sent quite clearly to them and I would think that the DNC who we've worked with in the past at a lot to do with that. I'm guessing legal reasons that they can't mandate exactly how you implemented but they'd probably had strong recommendations of how of how to set up a campaign in modern digital era with that said we certainly don't conclude was served that these campaigns are invulnerable to attacks especially sophisticated attacks. It's my opinion that a fortune five bank that invest billions of dollars in cyber security defense cannot necessarily declare their defenses. Are Our risk a risk free of a very sophisticated actor. It's impossible so to ever think that you've defended that level of attack and sophistication varies from physical access to zero days to human intelligence and that is potentially an attack vector for these campaigns. So that is a do need to be aware that. That's intact victor. I don't think anyone can ever conclude that they're safe from that. But all signs point to that I can't necessarily test that level of of attack all signs point to that they are taking it seriously and they you know there as well defended potentially as someone could be to that level of sophistication but by no means of my saying that there's not going to be a successful attack in the in the following primary or general election but I I suppose In general as you mentioned for American voters This is Good news that At least the things you are able to look at the the proper attention is being paid. Yeah I would say from my research side and my My offensive side. I wanted to find stuff just to just to appease our curiosity and fun but yeah when I when I think about being an American and a voter I am relieved that it seems that the heat has been called by the by the candidates to take this seriously and I. You know the scrutiny. We as voters and those of us in the Cybersecurity well-needed continue applying that pressure for for these parties and candidates to continue to take that seriously. I think a lot of that came from the individual voter and those of us in in the industry applying that historically and then you know asking questions about cybersecurity and debates and making that a first order citizen in a modern campaign our thanks to Paul Galati from security scorecard. The research we discussed was titled Twenty Twenty Democratic Presidential Candidates. It's smart to cybersecurity. We'll have a link in the show notes. Thanks to juniper networks for sponsoring our show you can learn more at juniper dot net slash security. Were connect with them on twitter or facebook and thanks to unveil for their sponsorship. You can find out how they're closing the last gap in data security at unveil dot com cyber wire research. Saturday is proudly produced in Maryland out of the startup studios of data tribe with their CO building. The next generation of cybersecurity teams and technologies are amazing. Cyber wire team working from home is Elliott Peltzman. Eru Prokosch Stefan Kelsey bond. Dr Joe Kerrigan Carol. -Tario Benny Elon. Nick Valenki Jana Johnson. Bennett Mo- Chris. Russell John Patrick Jennifer Ivan Rodriguez Peter. Kilby Dave Bittner. Thanks for listening.

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Chapter 6: The Verdict and the Miracle


43:55 min | 2 years ago

Chapter 6: The Verdict and the Miracle

"A listener. Note, this story contains adult language and some graphic descriptions, violence. Previously on Caruth somebody said something about the Caruth trial starts tomorrow. And I said a few words because I realized that's when I had gotten deferred to firing five bullets point, blank range into Shariq out body all the elements of premeditation or there. She was the strongest witness for herself to her own murder rated founded saying his head. There was a bad plan also. No, actually he's saying he didn't do this Mr. Kennedy and that you're a liar. They, we're going to use van Brett Watkins, and I'm just sitting here thinking, hey, ain't gonna work out so good for you. I would rip you like a rag doll, probably the most unhappy guy in that courtroom was gentry. They were afraid they were going to lose the case. Down the hallway from courtroom, thirty three, a one in Charlotte's criminal courts building. There's a meeting room tucked in the back away from the lawyers, the parents and the media scrum engulfing everything around the Ray Caruth murder trial. The one window in the room looked out onto a parking garage, the twelve men and women of the jury gathered around a long table about to decide Caruth fate. In the killing of ceriga Adams, we had four or five things that we had to discuss. They had been charged with four different items. This is Clark panel, one of the jury members, and I've read after the fact that people out in the hall said, we were yelling and we were doing this and we were doing and I took exception to that. We all had been stifled for three months. We all wanted to talk at once. I wanted to make my point. She wanted to make her point. He wanted to make his point. It was like sitting around with family, you know, at thanksgiving dinner and everybody's talking at one time. It was basically that for those three months jurors had passed the time there during breaks in the trial by playing cards or working on a puzzle, or sometimes just counting down until they had lunch at a nearby. Restaurant called show Mars the only way on news circus because we could look out the women see what was going on outside. We were kind of confined to the jury room. And then at lunch, you know, we gave show Moore's lot of business. And occasionally some of us would bring our lunches and we'd go hide out in the park and the because if you didn't, people were come up. People did try. And I guess it was people that had come to the trial and they'd see us headed show, Marge women. And we'd just start our heads and and keep going, which is what we were instructed to do after going that far, I don't think any of us wanted to get kicked off the jury for doing something stupid. There was no TV in that room and know newspapers were allowed either the jurors had their own private bathroom when they threw away notes. The tore them up first before giving them to the court officer. And there are Pennells sat among a lawyer, a banker, a homemaker, a fraud investigator, and the others who made up crews. Jury scribbling stream of thoughts into court provided notebooks. The judge told us before the trial started who said they were going to be a lot of stuff say I'd done a lot of action said you're gonna need to remember everything that happens. So I recommend that you take as good a node sues you can't. So I went through the I eighty pages and then I flipped it over and started coming back on the next eighty pages. And then I went to book to started on page one sixty one. In a way after three months that jury room had come to feel like a prison of its own on January sixteenth, two thousand one. The jurors themselves were handed the key lawyers for Ray Caruth and the state of North Carolina completed their closing arguments for panel and the other men and women of the jury. Only one thing stood in their way of going home. They simply had to answer the question should Reich, Aretha live or die. From the Charlotte observer in McClatchy studios. This is Caruth. I'm Scott Fowler, and this is chapter six, the verdict and the miracle. This podcast is supported by the national coalition against domestic violence for forty years. The grassroots voice victims and survivors and the catalyst for society that no longer. Tolerates domestic abuse learn how you can take a stand against domestic violence at NCA DV dot org. This podcast is also supported by safe alliance, providing hope and healing to more than thirteen thousand survivors of domestic violence and sexual assault in the Charlotte area each year. See how your donation helps build a healthy and peaceful community at safe alliance dot org. Now, back to our story. And it's closing argument. The prosecution argued Caruth was the mastermind responsible for Cherie Kaz killing. The defense claimed her shooting was retribution for a large scale drug deal gone wrong. If Ray had just paid us the money, none of this would have happened as the drama shifted to that back room. Judge Charles lamb. I instructed the jury to pick a foreman. Most observers presumed it would be her Brown a lawyer for thirty seven years himself. And one had even tried cases against the lead prosecutor gentry caudill, but Brown wanted no part of the job. I never did get into a contest with anyone else trying to be the form and I prefer not to because I think it would appear had been a form of being an attorney with as much experience as I had, then the people may get out of there. Well, why did you have that one lawyer there when his other eleven jurors have been more puppet like I did not want that to happen. The attorney recruit. Himself immediately, which we all thought was probably a good idea because he said, if I'm jury foreman, whatever verdict we come out with is going to be torn to bits. And he said, I just don't think that it would be fair interest to me or to the jurors for me to be the reform was fifty two years old and worked at a Charlotte charity called crisis assistance ministry. You'd actually served on a jury in a murder case before the not as the Forman. But this time Pinna was elected Forman in a secret ballot after I was elected, we said, well, we don't need to vote on anything right now. We need to just kind to get our thoughts about us. So we all started going through our notebooks. And then I said, okay, give me some some input. What are your thoughts next? The jury needed to reach unanimous agreement on each of the four charges Karoo faced ver. First degree murder conspiracy to commit murder using an instrument with intent to destroy an unborn child and discharging a firearm into occupied property. Everyone. Very composed in in our deliberations. And there was no unkind words said to anyone drawer. This is Brown again, problem ause well, Ray Caruth wasn't the actual man who shot and kill the victim sharia atoms for name in North Carolina. Criminal cases, prosecutors can recommend the charges to be brought against the defendant and the defense can even way in. But the exact crimes right Caruth was charged with were determined by judge lamb who died in twenty sixteen, both sets of lawyers told me they agreed with lamps charges. Judge lamb told us what he intended to charge on. And that was first degree murder or not guilty. And the reason is and judge lion was falling law and correctly doing so this is gentry. Caudill the lead prosecutor. In the case, all the evidence was that this murder was done. Premeditation deliberation and specific intent to kill. There's no reason, no justification for submitting anything. But I agree murder by way of premeditation. So it was first degree are not guilty to the murder charge. The jury was given a verdict sheet to fill out for each charge writing down guilty or not guilty on each of the four pieces of paper. Well, we, we took votes on various charges. Some members of the jury had their minds mostly made up including an insurance underwriter in his late fifties. Whose name was Jerry karst. We had only one choice for the murder charge which was murdered in the first degree. At one point I asked question, is there anybody in here who doesn't think Caruth is up to this and up to his eyeballs. Everybody said, yes, they agreed that he was in the jury room. They weren't buying defense attorney, David Rudolph's theory that shriek have been killed over a drug deal. I've seen his most recent staircase set on Netflix, and my impression of David was he came up with alternate set of possibilities that were never backed up by anything in the testimony that I ever heard. He said it could possibly been it a drug deal, gone bad. None of the testimony even hinted at that, but 'penal remembers that for two days, the jurors disagreed on what to do with that interpretation. We decided that we would take a preliminary vote and we were not unanimous on any of the four atoms. And so we talked about it a little bit more. And I think I said, now that we've talked some more, should we vote again. And somebody said, no, I don't think we should vote again because from what I've heard, we're not at the point where everybody's gonna change their mind. Pennells says that gradually the jury agreed on the three lesser charges as we got more into the trial. And as we got into deliberations, we kept going back to that nine one one call. We just couldn't wrap our hands around. Why would she save some of things? She said at this moment, if they weren't rigged. And I was kinda thinking to myself how you couldn't help, but believer seemed almost impossible to me. So I think in the overall picture that was probably ninety percent of why voted the whale voting. But the murder charge caused problems. The four conspirators in Serena's killing Caruth had been the first to go on trial, but not the first to resolve his case van Brett Watkins who actually shot ceriga had already pleaded guilty to second degree murder. Caruth had declined the same plea deal. And now this first degree murder charge came with a potential death sentence that said, jurors like her Brown, Gerry karst at odds, but didn't think Ray Caruth was guilty of first degree murder. If the trigger man were guilty of second-degree murder, while we convict someone else, I agree murder, who is not the trigger. I mean, that's how that case played out. I think he should have been convicted of first degree murder and everything that we saw in court back that up. Everybody's story was the same Cherie Cas nine one one call and her later statements in the hospital. I don't think would be sufficient to. Convince me that Caruth was the perpetrator, but everything else along with. I mean, the David Rudolph didn't come up with any good alternative explanation for the facts that we had. I would've voted for the death penalty. In this case. He certainly did everything that is required for that type of conviction after two days of deliberations. Penaltl judge lamb. The jury was at an impasse, but at the tail end of a three month, long trial, the judge was having none of it lamb sent them back to the jury room to keep working. So we went back and we sat down and have we had another couple of hours a very good deliberation. So we broke for them. But before we broke, I said, now tomorrow's Friday. We do not have to make a decision just because it's Friday. I said, you know the whole world sitting out there waiting on us to make a decision. But if we don't feel comfortable tomorrow morning, when we come in about voting, we're not going to say, listen, I'll go home, get as good, a notch wrist as you can think about all things have happened the last two or three days, but most especially what's happened in these last three hours. And let's come back tomorrow morning and will continue our discussion by the fourth day, the only remaining question was whether to convict Caruth of first degree murder. Everybody really seemed to be more refreshed and had a little bit of about sender stale, and we deliberated probably onto lunchtime. And then we came back and I think that's when we voted and. We all called our spouses or significant others that we wanted to call and said. Turn on television. It's going to happen move in the next hour. The jury returns unanimous verdict as follows that the defendant Ray Lamar cruise is guilty of discharging farm and occupied property. Guilty of using an estimate with intent to destroy an unborn child. Guilty of conspiracy to commit murder of sharia Adams. But not guilty of the first green. The verdict left everyone stunned crew had been effectively declared guilty of masterminding. Shariq is killing but found not guilty of her actual killing. He wouldn't get the death penalty, but he would spend years in prison. Karstic knowledge is the punishment was either the best of both worlds or the worst. We were not permitted to consider second degree murder. We said, okay, we'll agree that he's guilty of all the lesser charges, but will say, we cannot convict on first degree. That's what we came out within the end. Caudill didn't like it a bit. He was about to become a judge himself. So this was his last case as a prosecutor looking back over his sterling legal career. This is one verdict that clearly still bothers him. The judge following the law jury didn't. The court instructed them that if they found Caruth was acting in concert with Watkins and the codefendants in their common scheme to ambush and murder, Shariq Adams, then he would be guilty. I agree murder by way of acting concert and or if you will, if they found that Caruth aided instigated, procuring Watkins to murder, Shariq announce or. Fire into our occupied vehicle, then he would be as guilty of first degree murder as Watkins, and they found him guilty of conspiracy to commit murder, aiding and abetting. If you will acting in concert, they found him guilty a fire into an occupied vehicle, felony murder. If you find those have fun, I don't have to the jury and have to do anything, but you know, if they follow the law, they follow their oath to apply the law is given to them by the judge. Then one would follow the other. They did not follow the law Pinot completely rejects that framing. I think the state made a huge air by not giving me stop Shen of second degree murder. We all knew that he was part of it, but with him not pulling the trigger in good conscience, we couldn't say, I agree if they had said, second degree ninety nine percent. Sure we would have done that. I know I would have. What you gotta go with options you're giving as we were told numerous styles, we're not allowed to deviate from the instructions that were given to us. Caruth. Defenders were equally upset. His mother told ABC's twenty twenty that our son was punished. For quote the sins of OJ people down here, feel that professional athletes have gotten away with too much the Audrey Caruth said they had to punish him for something. They punished him for OJ Simpson, even Rudolf agreed with caudill in a narrow sense, how do I feel about the verdict now looking back on it, you know, at the time I was disappointed, you know, it was an inconsistent verdict. I thought, you know, we had a very good chance of winning that case. So I was disappointed looking back on it now. I think in some strange way, the jury sort of figured haven't and sort of compromised to a place that you know, even Ray can accept. Okay, I get it. I, I'm responsible for this situation, so I needed to pay a price. And so you know, the jury probably got it right now with with what they came up with, and you know, that was a death penalty case, so that that was. You know, looking back on it, that's a win. You know what I mean? Ray is walking out of prison in October, you know, in a lot of ways, we sort of won that case the day after his conviction Karoo spins twenty seventh birthday in jail, two days after that, judge lamb sentenced him to at least nineteen years in prison. That hearing was the first time in the entire trial. The court heard from Cherie Carr's mother, Sondra an forgiving. I can't hate rate for roof because he is fundament grandsons, but in no way to do. I think that he should get off easy for what he's doing, remembers another moment of her grace. It was no winner. In this case, just tragedy all around. And after the verdict, she asked us to join her in a room outside the courtroom. She and some other friends and relatives, I guess, formed circle and she prayed prayed for us. Pray for right. Caruth prayed for van. Brett Watkins. It was an incredibly moving moment. I'll never forget. Yeah, regardless of the verdict, Sondra was still left to cope with the loss of her only child, whether he got nineteen years like he did or if he would have gotten closer to forty years, like van Brit did Rica still dead and is not bringing her bag. So not wasting my emotion on what day he gets out. This podcast is supported by the Children's Defense Fund founded in nineteen seventy three by civil rights. Pioneer Marian Wright Edelman. Dr. King was shot went into riot-torn, Washington DC neighborhoods, urging children not to loot, get arrested, ruin their futures, a twelve year old black or looked me straight in the I and said, lady ain't got no future. Well, it is time for the United States and for the black community and all of us to prove that boys truth wrong. You can help improve the odds for all children at Children's Defense, dot org, slash never give them. Now, back to our story. Caruth has been everyday since in prison. The verdict survived every appeal. At least once a week for the past fourteen years Sondra chancellor have come here to the busy child and family development center in south Charlotte. This is the reality left behind once the verdicts were read in the public, moved on privately. There was still a young man coping with severe physical and intellectual disabilities. He has irreversible brain damage suffered. The ninety was born when his mother was shot by the killer his father hired and with him every step of the way has been Sondra Adams, his beloved grandmother. They were the ones left behind in the aftermath of the Burdet CT clinging to their faith and to each other. Sandra has been chancellor lease primary caregiver from the beginning. And no, she will be for as long as she lives. She's embraced her role is Jima partly, of course because she sees so much of her daughter in grandson. But she was so determined that she was not going to die out on that street that she was going to get help and deliver her child. She was so focused on, you know, this her baby. She showed so much determination and so did chancellor because he could have had a week spirit and not really fought to live like he did, but he was determined is Wael that he was gonna live, and I think he's been determined since that time that he will live and be the best chancellor that he can be. Because chancellor does not think he's disabled, he is able differently. So he does not conduct himself like a helpless person. And so I see ceriga coming through that fight net determination. Of course, Sandra also say someone else in chancellor Li smile, and I must give credit to rake roof because I think Ray has some of those same qualities. You couldn't make it to the NFL just being mediocre. And so that strong athletic ability, the chancellor has and he displays when he's doing his therapy and it's not even disturbing is the day today task that we take so much for granted that he has to put so much effort into doing. I think it's great that he displays that drive and that to NASA Turkey. And I've been lucky to see that too nasty in person over the years for the most part, Sandra has kept her grandson shielded from the media, partly that's due to his past, but also because she doesn't want to overwhelm a teenager with significant disabilities. Chancellor -ly knows a number of words, but speaks very few complete sentences. He recently learned to count to one hundred by tens. His speech can be hard to understand unless you're around him a lot. But periodically and especially over the past few years, she's offered me extended glimpses into chancellor lease life. For instance, when he does therapeutic horseback riding, misty meadows farm just outside of Charlotte. What are some of your favorite things to do. Five or spec. Do you have a favorite horse where. Are you on Reiter? Yeah. What do you say Li when you want the horse. Oh, walk on. And what about when you want the horse to stop more. Yeah. And here at child and family development where chancellor Li sometimes simply walks the halls. Although there's nothing simple about walking for a young man with cerebral palsy. We have recounted every steps one, two threes. Number eighty two. But now we don't have to count. Amy Sturkey has been chief physical therapist since he was five used to walk everywhere in his own used only walk sometimes. Now he trusts starting to walk some independently. Doctors said, predicted chancellor Li might never walk it all today. He walks by himself. With the aid of a Walker or with a gentle hand to hold his steps are deliberate and often flat, which also makes them somewhat noisy. When you have cerebral palsy, you tend to move in more simplified patterns and some of it actually minutes early development, early kids what they want. They wall kind of like this and he's still a locker relatively speaking. So he tends to walk this way what leg up and down. But we walk by flexing our hip, extending the in Bercy flexing foot. So we don't walk with hip flexibility flexing coming like like that, like a little baby. And it's puts a lot more pressure on your joints and set you up to lose your. So we're working on a hilltop gate powder and because that you often get here early coming. Told me early on. He would never want to look. Until. We can take the stamp in March, and it is wonderful. Say, agrees miracle love to hear him coming. As you never thought you. After walking the hallway, chancellor Li often heads through a side door for a tricky. The stairs. Christner. Now. He has to take turns speak. Sturkey leads chancellor Li to a small trampoline helps imbalance while a bats balloons back to him ever tosses. So he hits on this particular day in twenty sixteen it was me. Then it's onto what's Turkey calls, elbow, extensions. Basically pushups on a red and yellow Jim, Matt near the wall. He'll do ten of these. The determination required for those pushups as a apparent. All the way. All right, very good. And there's another unmistakable site, chancellor lease arm, muscles, literally bulge out from the sleeves of his purple polo shirt. Do you like going to therapy. The same? Yeah. Are you strong and yeah. Having worked as larger muscles, chancellor Li sits with occupational therapist, Abby wash to hone his smaller ones. All right. For fifteen minutes. He'll practice scooping food out of a bowl with a spoon. These metals aren't doing. Yeah, grain telling. Muscles to overwork, really relying a lot of these big muscles to make these small movements happen. That's why he's doing that lean here. We're working on when he brings it to his mouth, really using the shoulder rather than you. And I are just going to keep it from the elbow down canes to use his big muscles because that's where he has the majority of his control. By doing things like leaning this way. That's why he's got that shoulder going. The whole by has to get into scoop in the next wash, helps chancellor Li practice, writing his name, which starts with opening the plastic container of markers, how you can hold the base it part of got it on there and I'll help you hold it down and then pop athlete open. If you need me, you know what to say. Right. He's got things containers at home. He needs to open dressing food stuff, that kind of thing coordinating his hands to get what he needs. Purple purple day. Buber don't they look good, Sandra believes chancellor league. Got that fashion sense from his mother. He loved to dress up. Everything had to be, you know, just need, never and chancellor has a lot of those qualities. Chancellor is so particular about his clothing in ill tell you can't feel like we're in a certain color and, oh goodness, don't let him be eating and get a little something on his clothes. She was the same way she would go and change. Now he just has to get wiped off. Gee, mom doesn't have time for all the. For the next ten minutes, he'll work on writing his name with a big purple marker that matches his bright polo shirt. And this land board gives him a little better control of his awesome tail to start with first name. Okay. Okay. Just go for it and we've got a couple more papers on here. Heaney a couple of times you can do a couple times. Oh, okay. Top in yourself and your arm out of control there. That's so good. Youthful. And you read that perfect picture. He's really usually he just saves the excitement for at the end when he gets it today, he's so excited. You're just gonna do that the whole time. You should know during therapy is phenomenal. Every single week, no matter what's going on. I mean, it's like you could be having a bad day in here. If you're lucky enough to be working with leading, never mind the ongoing reality of raising special needs. Child is obviously more nuance than that chancellor Li will likely always require caregiver. Pass Sandra about that during one of chancellor lease therapy sessions. I remember like it was just yesterday, sitting in doctor's offices are the team of medical staff was they're telling me all the things that he won't be able to do. He won't walk. He won't talk. He's not going to be able to feed himself. You know, every part of his brain was affected. So you know, we may be looking at someone this bed bound and you know, under my breath, I was rejected and every last word of and he is talking not as clearly as you know, believe he will. But I understand him. His teachers understand him when you around him and always say, he's in the smile ministry. You know, he's already walking in his collar and he, he just smiles and lights up the room and puts people at ease, and you know, and he's. Happy. He literally wakes up in the morning smiling and he goes to bed. He's still smiling. He has taught me more about how to love unconditionally the best lesson that I could've ever learned in my. So you know, when I think of the whole package of chance to leeann now how he's really coming into his own with his moral independence, and I'm just disgraceful from just grateful. There's no doubt she's right about the joy. Her grandson brings to others. I know I feel it when it gives me a hug which is done before and after every one of our interviews over the years. Thank you. This day. Anyway, everything was going right for him in washes, hardest test. She sits chance early in front of a mirror and tells them to button his own caller by his standards. He does it extremely fast, so fast. In fact, she almost misses it because she's answering one of my questions in good faith. Eighteen minutes do, but we do sometimes three battles in session and not one complaint from this number one of loss of focus anything. I mean, just amazing. Right? I is to. Time is to. That calls for a celebrate Tori dance. To what else, but the Ferrer William smash, hit happy. This podcast is supported by no more no more. It's none of my business, no more. He didn't mean it no more. Not my problem. No more. She was flirting with him no more. She was asking for it. No more boys will be boys. No more say something next time noble or by standing? No more ignorance. No more excuses. No more pledged to be part of the movement and donate to help prevent domestic violence at no more dot org. Now, back to our story. Four men responsible for chancellor lease disabilities. Only Caruth went to trial, Michael Kennedy pleaded guilty to second degree murder and serve nearly eleven years in prison. He was released in twenty eleven and declined to participate in this project. But his lawyer, James XM did speak with me. He feels like a bad chapter in his life and wants to move on from it. And I understand that. And I think again at Michael's non-participation is that he feels very bad about that. He knows he stepped out of his normal character and not so much of a get it because that's possible. But again wants to have that behind him and move forward Stanley, Abraham served a little less than two years after his own plea deal. He got out in two thousand one yet somehow the conspirator Sandra felt the most connection to is the man who shot. Her daughter van Brett Watkins. He'll be in prison until at least twenty forty six. If he lives that long, I told Sandra that I've been divisible him recently in prisons isn't doing okay. Seems to be doing okay. Is in 'cause I know he had some health issues and I was concerned Izzy does have some health issues, but they're not like critical. Okay. Here, things are more bothersome like he's. Okay. But Caruth is the man who will forever cast his shadow over this saga. With every step chancellor Li takes the teenager moves farther away from his father's legacy and the awful circumstances of his birth. Then again, maybe that something mostly outsiders like me worry about as he scribbled his name in purple marker, that therapy session. Chancellor Lee grant from ear to ear as it usually does. This is gonna be here warm up one to just do your best. We're gonna flip it over and then we're going to do another one to get going. Sometimes it gets easier s. Sandra at that session, how much chancellor -ly knows about his father named it. There's more, you know, we have video, you know, I'll show him the video. He sees his day and I have one of Ray's football pitchers. I haven't in his ABA with this Bursa ticket and everything. So he could see his parents because I want him to know that you will formed in love to me there, no illegitimate children, their illegitimate circumstances. In always explained to him that you day just did a bad thing. He's paid for it. Now, given the severity of his mental disability, I asked her if chancellor Li understands where his father is right now, where he, I don't think he really has a total concept. What that means. He's watched some shows with people behind bars in prison, and I'll tell him, you know that this is where you're at, he is. He's locked up like this. And so I mean, I think he understands to a degree, but you know, maybe not in maybe that's a good thing. So he don't really know out that works soon. Caruth will be a free man and a new media storm is already taking shape. Once again, the reality for Sandra inner grandson, we'll surely get harder before it gets easier. So when they recently visited our offices, I had a few more questions for chancellor Li about life inside his smile, ministry. Something. Yeah, just gonna put it on here. Okay. To do any on this site too. We could hear you at the microphone. So that way when we talk to you are cameras can hear you, isn't that Laura. Dr. It is much. Would you count for us? Can you count. Q. Okay. Okay. So let's start by you telling me your name. I-. Leah Dems? Yeah. Now, what do you call your grandmother? You fall Jima. Yeah. And what do you call your mother. That's right. Do you like. What is your motto church? I can't do our good through Amy. Emme give because bird girl draw is. I can do anything because God is with me. That's right. I'm glad you told me that. What do you like to watch on TV care? Are. Steve. The mar- if places girl play, feel chances cargo, where have you been that you really like cow? Why Colorado. Who went to college Colorado, where. Do you know what right looks like. Yeah, dude, it you look like for a girl. Mommy. Piece z. like mommy. But a lot of people think you like your day gray. Yeah, yeah. Look like rate a little bit. Do you know where your father is now. We're. That's right. And do you know what's going to happen to him pretty soon? Try. Would you like to meet your father? You. What would you do if you met. Say. I'm Scott. Fowler in this podcast is produced by Jeff signer and Rachel Weisz and Davin Coburn at McClatchy studios, fine. Lots more about this case at Charlotte observer dot com slash Caruth and for just thirty dollars subscribe now to a full year of the observers, award-winning sports coverage at Charlotte, observer dot com. Slash sports pass, leave us a rating and review on apple podcasts, and you can reach me directly at s Fowler at Charlotte, observer dot com. In chapter seven, the long road to forgiveness and everything that comes after my fault is that I didn't do like a hitman should do kill everybody on the same. I think I'm a grandma that would do what she is supposed to do in the face of tragedy. -cations. Co Wargo Colorado. So. That always happens when I talk about them. Thank king associate, November sixteen with the Dame. My grandchild was our meal boy.

Audrey Caruth chancellor murder chancellor Li Brett Watkins Charlotte first degree murder second degree murder Ray ceriga Adams Sandra Caruth Sondra chancellor Michael Kennedy conspiracy to commit murder Chancellor -ly Charles lamb Ray Caruth North Carolina
How to Face Your Financial Fears (Hour 2)

The Dave Ramsey Show

40:26 min | 1 year ago

How to Face Your Financial Fears (Hour 2)

"Live from the headquarters Ramsey solutions broadcasting from a dollar car rental studios. It's the Dave Ramsey show where debt is dumb cash is king and the paid off home mortgage has taken the place of the B._M._w.. As the status symbol of choice I am Dave Ramsey your host. This is your show. Thank you for joining us open phones at triple eight eight two five five two two five. That's triple eight eight two five five two two five Brian is with us in Charlotte North Carolina Hi Brian Welcome to the Dave Ramsey show Dave. How are you doing today better than I deserve? What's up all right to recently come through a divorce and I'm self employed of a very successful business but with the divorce and the way it left <hes> made some bad decisions in the past year wreck quite a bit of business in credit card debt of course since I'm self employed? It's all my bit I'd but long story short I now have two homes my primary inner rental then I'm thinking about selling them both to move into an apartment to use the equity to insult my debt so I don't feel like I have a cobblestone around my neck every day. Generally speaking I like the idea <hes> fresh start all the way around. How much debt do you have on the on the business okay so business and personal well? Counting both is about one hundred sixty three thousand dollars okay and what does the credit cards that is all credit card so about a hundred and twenty was business debt in it is on a business loan which is basically treated like a credit credit card in and the rest is on personal credit cards but of course I'm personally guaranteed on the business and the other ten technically no business debt and small business your own all of it so it's all personal debt. You just labeled it business business. <hes> the the homes will bring <hes> equity of how much a hundred and fifty so. I won't quite clean up the debt then we'll get a leaving about sixteen grand in debt. I have about eleven thousand in savings which I didn't let go because with the divorce I wanted to make tracking my mortgage payments 'cause I wasn't sure what was GONNA happen. Literally if I sell the House as the market is extremely hot right now and with what I haven't savings and if I keep a thousand dollars I will be left with probably five thousand dollars worth of debt which I'll be able to cancel that out in another few months with my income now so what is your income <hes> clear near forty two hundred a month. That's knit okay. What kind of business would you do some aquariums okay orthodontist pediatrician as you as you've gone through this horrible trauma in your life? Your Business has not suffered in having a little bit <hes> most of my clients fan for ten to fifteen years. I've actually picked up new clients. <hes> it's one of those things that it's not affected A. and negatively. I did put my advertising which is called the slowdown but that was really just kind of regroup with my company to refocus <hes> so no my income really for the past ten years for the most part completely consistent children. I have two kids. Do they live at the House with you WanNa half fifty fifty over a do not yet because he has some medical issues but within about six period. I should have both boys fifty fifty. I think there's a child support payment as of now as of now. I'm getting ready to move into an apartment. It's you know a lowest cost is I can cut everything kind of the beans and rice steel. I'll be left with about fifteen hundred dollars a month leftover after all expenses child support everything but the apartment will be okay for them to stay in when they're with you three bedroom apartment in meets our needs and issues. It's it's actually I'm not like five miles away from the kids school and my of course he's at three year old and a five year old five years start kindergarten <hes> S._O.. Accommodates the kids and you know about five years ago we moved into art. Maybe eight years ago moved into an apartment <hes> me and the ex Mrs you know we paid off about eighty thousand dollars in debt saved up enough to bar House with you know a twenty percent down fifteen year mortgage. We still had thirty grand left in the bank. No all all I was trying to figure out how the kids are going to be affected by this idea but it sounds like they're sounds like they're. They're totally. They're going to be fun with it. <hes> so so yeah. They're you know they you. We've our divorce will be complete in October. Yes at that point when the divorce is complete and the properties are in your name I would sell them. Yes ARGENTA QUICK CLEAN DIV there in mine and like I said I'm ready to fill out fresh start. I was going to hold it and it's a rental but it's that whole for me. They'll just you're not gonNA be your landlord right now. You're broke she exactly yeah I think I think you're making a good move. It's a clean slate. You've gone through a hard time emotionally and heartbreak and everything else and you're starting over but you're going to start over with almost no debt and soon to be no debt and yes. I think that's a great move. If you're going to liquidate these properties before the divorce is final. Make sure your attorney is in the loop on Matt and goes along with that because I don't want that to come back and bite you in change the settlement understand but other than that you know if the divorce was final. I'd do it today but if it's not final I want some assurance that. you don't sell these houses and pay off your debt and then she wants after business or something that wouldn't be <hes> that would not have worked to your advantage obviously then so we gotta have all that locked in and dialed in but good question i'm sorry you're going through this open phones at triple eight eight eight to five five to five elena is with us in orlando hi elena how are you good how are you they better than i deserve what's up so i am <hes> almost two hundred fifty thousand dollars in student on death good lower <hes> i'm not planning on being a doctor so if you're going to be a lawyer no kind of a degree to go get for two hundred and fifty grand i got my bachelor's in psychology for fifty thousand dollars yeah i think it was a hundred thousand a few years ago and i didn't even think about it and then it just sprang up even higher but i am planning on going back to school to be a social worker <hes> and everybody knows they make six figures true they don't your bro you can't go be a social worker what is your what's your household income <hes> right now i'm actually not making anything i am a caregiver for my grandma that's on are you single yeah okay how old are you i am twenty seven this is mean old uncle dave on the line are you ready yeah you have to go make some money you have to go make some money early a lot of money and social workers don't make a lot of money show you you gave up the right to be a social worker when you spent two hundred and fifty thousand dollars on the psych degree so now we have to retool your career and reset your career because you need to go make some money you've a mess on your hands and spend the rest of your life as a slave to the student loan if you don't i don't want that for you hold on i'm gonna get you signed up for financial peace university send you a book called start but it's not going to be start being a social worker this is the dave dave ramsey show thousands of people seeking home security get ripped off every day you get locked into long long term contracts with no way out it's robbery itself and it can cost you thousands now there's a smarter way to protect your home simplisafe home security simplisafe has no contracts and no commitments get a free h._d. security already camera when you order at simplisafe dot com slash ramsey that's simplisafe dot com slash ramsey <music> thanks for joining us america we're glad you're here are nita is with us in jacksonville florida hey anita how are you good day thanks for taking my call sure what's up i just learned about you over to the last two weeks and i'm i'm motivated motivated to pay off debt you got less i got about thirty five thousand in retirement seventy four thousand in the money market account your income is fifty thousand so do i take the money from the money market account and pay off the debt that i have or i can i just work my behind off in nauseous paid off how much debt do you have not counting your house not counting the house i have fifteen <hes> for a car loan and eighty two four student all through okay and you make fifty a year right okay yeah pay off the car and i put the rest on student loan down two thousand dollars that's gonna feel really scary because how the seventy four million are seventy four thousand this favorite up over a period of time and so on that which leads me to one of the questions should i take back there or do i move it maybe too 'cause i had the i._r._a. account which has thirty five now thirty five thousand long i'm clean out the seventy four and put it on the debt okay down to one thousand dollars one thousand dollars is baby step one and then that that will leave you about twenty thousand dollars in debt and you've got a knock that out like you used to knock out savings you're going to lean into that debt as hard as you can lean and you're gonna knock that that out and about a year year and a half okay and then once that that's gone then i want take that one thousand dollar account and raise it back up to three to six months of expenses okay she got that way you've got your rainy day fund and then only then start your long term investing with your i._r._a.'s and your roth i._r._a. roth 4._0._1._k.'s or whatever's available to you on that so have you read the book the total money makeover yet no i have not like i said i just learned about two weeks ago okay we'll give you a copy of it it's the baby steps that we talk about you hear me talking about those all the time on steroids every detail about the baby steps why we do them when we do them what what why the order is there and the reason even though it feels very uncomfortable through parts of the baby steps like when i take that seventy four thousand and take it down seventy three thousand put on your debt you can't hardly breathe when i say that because you're a saver and that pile of money right there gives you a tremendous amount of safety feelings emotional feelings and all that kind of stuff it gives you much more peace than the debt gives you nightmares right absolutely and i know that otherwise you would have already put it on the debt right if the debt nightmares we're bigger than the p she would have already moved it right correct but right and so what i'm asking you to do i know is emotionally strenuous but the fastest method between you and wealth is to get control of your most powerful wealth-building to not be giving all your money to a bank and debt free when you don't have any payments building wealth is fairly easy money marketing pay off the debt yup pathak pathak are today and then throw the rest of the student loan it's gonna leave about twenty thousand bucks on the student loan if i did my math right and then you're gonna be two hundred on the student loan eighty two hundred i thought it was styles and now you're breathing better than i thought you were breathing okay Oh my gosh yes. You're debt free but then that's a no brainer. That should be easy for you. Okay now. You're done today boom. You're debt free checks okay so it's twenty three thousand dollars out of your seventy eighty four. We got down to fifty one thousand. That's still too much. 'cause your emergency fund should be three to six months of expenses and so your emergency fund should only be about twenty thousand okay. It's fifty one after we paid off all your dad okay so the rest how are you. I am forty. Seven you own a home. I do balance on that sixty six okay. I'm GonNa Throw About Twenty Thousand Bucks at your home. I'm going to pay off the other debts coach for Twenty Thousand Bucks and I'm GonNa Leave Twenty thousand in your Rainy Day Fund and now I'm GonNa make sure you're putting because you've got no payments now but house payment. How's that feel right pretty good? We're going to take you. We're GONNA take your your income now and make sure you're putting fifteen percent for you. That's about seventy six hundred dollars a year into good growth stock mutual funds in your 4. Your 4. At work four three cow I don't I'm a substitute teaching my husband. He's retired military okay so he's got the good twenty year plan on the retirement. No no no. He's not he's not retired. He's not retired from twenty years okay but is he working on other than that. No how old are you to <hes> he fifty seven and I'm at I'm forty seven like I said Funny Work He. Why got any work while he's disabled banning? Oh okay okay. That's the that's the reason for his retirement. He's got that in prime coming. Good tell him thanks for service. Okay good and so you're working and you're going to take fifteen fifteen percent of your income and throw it into retirement and your fifties in your fifties and you're going to have no payments and we're going to get the house paid off next over the next five or ten years so that by the time you reach retirement. You're going to have a half million dollars. There's no house payments. That's feel pretty good that does and you do. You have any survivor benefits on his disability if he passes before you we we both have one hundred thousand dollars policy so in turn policy. That's life insurance audio survivor on his income. No no okay all right cool all right. You're doing good yeah you got oh. I feel so much better eighty two hundred sixty two thousand. That's just a lot better. Okay good all right so yeah hold on. I'm Kelly give you a copy of the total money makeover. It'll shop adopt. It'll it'll walk you right through this reiterate what I just told you to do. After you've read it. You'll understand and you can go over it with him too and the two you line this out. You're GONNA be okay. You'RE GONNA be okay but yeah you need to clean up the we're doing. Here's Dustin out to corners. I mean it's not near as bad as I thought it was good good good good good good all right. Kevin is in Seattle. Hi Kevin how are you. I'm good Dan. How are you better than I deserve? What's up so I am working through baby? Step Two <hes> and just started working through the two and I currently in school about halfway done and I have about twenty two thousand in student loan debt. I'm wondering a couple of things one to ice. Stop School School until I can pay for it and that way. I'm not continuing with the student loan debt <hes> or do I drop school altogether <hes> it's <hes> I._T.. Management Okay okay. What do you do for a living I._T.? Management they pay for it. <hes> the the organization I'm at <hes> as a nonprofit and so there's lots of <hes> those lots of experience but they don't have the resources sources for that <hes> I have been going toward me make on their management. <hes> I make total. I make sixty seven in total about seventy five with my wife okay. How Much Do you have twenty two thousand student loan debt? What other that do you have <hes> grand total? It's about style <hes> one hundred with my wife student loan debt and medical bills and car payments. What's the Oh when you're far A._M.? One car I oh about three thousand and then the other car I oh about fifteen or it is okay aw I wanNA tighten up my budget and say I really can't make much progress on my baby. Step two but I'm going to finish my degree. What's IT GONNA cost to finish the degree? It would cost <hes> probably between another ten fifteen. It's an online school and I can make seventy five thousand dollars a year. If you pay minimum payments on everything and get on beans and rice budget and stay out of restaurants you can cash flow the balance of your education. You're not gonNA make any progress on your debt while you're doing that but you can finish your education in which case your your income ought to go up twenty thirty thousand bucks when you finish it. I'm going to have to leave that job. You know yeah I know okay at some point. I mean you got decide but you're going to finish this degree in order to further your career. It's not going to be at that place. They can't afford you once. You've gotten this degree but fifteen thousand bucks finish it cash flowing out man. Stop paying extra on everything cash flow. You don't have to borrow the more you can do it but you have to if you're borrowing more in order to keep doing baby step two is debt snowball and then you're just borrowing money to that snowball. That's dog chasing its tail. We don't need to do that so just let us sit there and tread water to you. Get Out of school and then hammering this. This is the Dave Ramsey. Show Christians have an affordable incredible way to meet their overwhelming healthcare costs. It's Christian healthcare ministries. The original health cost sharing ministry a better business bureau accredited organization C. H.. M. Members share to pay each other's as medical bills. It's not insurance. It's Christians financially and spiritually supporting each other. It's what C. H.. M. has done for over thirty. Five years. Learn more at C.. H. Ministries Dot Org that C. H. Ministries Dot O._R._G.. Christian healthcare ministries is a proud sponsor author of Dave Ramsey live events in the lobby of Ramsey Solutions Robbie and. Yup Hey guys we're good. Are you guys live Georgetown Kentucky Georgetown Kentucky home of the famous Chris Hogan. Yes that's where he went to college very cool. They had a national championship while he was there. Yeah yeah very cool so the Lexington area beautiful area of the country welcome to Nashville and all the way down here to do a debt free scream. Yes Sir all right much. Have you paid off two hundred sixty thousand dollars in eight years. Wow very cool and your range of income during that time well we started our journey at one twenty five and interestingly enough our income went down over the eight years. I we have had a couple of children along the way and I felt a calling to stay at home so about two years ago I actually went part time and I worked twice a week so we ended our income last year at ninety nine thousand cool very cool. What do you do for a living Robbie? I'm a physical therapist at the university forgive Kentucky Cool and before you are a fulltime mom Julia. What were you doing an insurance underwriter? Okay very cool on your fulltime with the kids. Actually I work part time so two days a week and then the rest of the time. I'm home with the kids. Aren't you okay coming up too so two hundred and sixty thousand eight years. I'm looking at this. You must have paid off your house. We dare people weird people out. There will be more of a mortgage. Their whole is not not you guys know very very cool well. Here's what's interesting our team obviously new you're coming and Zack Bennett one of our top production guys combed back through the Archives Archives of the Dave Ramsey and there's actually a phone call from you five years ago this month years ago exactly so you call. We're GONNA play play a short clip from that right now. Let's hear James Home that we've had we. We have not tried to sell it but I just hear horror stories about people trying to sell their house and taking a law within the markets goodwill the markets bad with real estate is Hawaiian hot on fire and going up where the real estate's the tank and not doing well and people are taking on their home. It doesn't change the discussion you still pay off your home because in either case you're better off when you get to baby step six and you're ready to pour on and pay off the house you know pay the thing off as fast as you can get sitting there with a paid for house in the next five or ten years is going to put you in such a place to win long term. I mean it is such a wonderful place to be. Hey thanks for the call so you call in and ask if you should pay off your house so it's GonNa take you five to ten years eight years later here you stand. We are yeah or five years. I hear you saying that so crazy. I didn't I remembered calling but I thought there's no way that they they wouldn't actually we thought there's no way but we have a magic weapon Zach comb through all that stuff and found that that's absolutely cool so I mean that just that's inspiring to me to sit here and go take a call lady says can she should you pay for and you can do it. You can do it and here you stand yeah. I love it here so tell people. How old are you two and thirty four? I'm thirty five and you're a paid for house. What's the house worth probably around two to twenty five something like how cool so tell people? They think this is impossible. How do you do that? I mean it took years from the time you started five years into it. You called three years into it. You call me which means you were kind of finishing up the other debt probably okay and so out of the two sixty. How much was the house itself when sixty five okay all right so what's the trick to getting out of debt? You did it your rockstars. There's really no trick. Honestly we followed college program. <hes> our debt really consisted of a car loan at twenty thousand student loans at seventy five and then the rest of it was our mortgage and around the time of the call we had paid off all of the car loan we had paid off all of the student loan and we we had our we were. I was pregnant with our first daughter and was just kinda wondering you know when you have children the for me anyway the tolerance for risk goes down and it felt risky to still have that mortgage edge but it's so normal to and so we you know honestly we after the call. I thought I still don't know if we should because we weren't sure if it was going to be our forever home. You hear that term thrown around a lot but really what it what it matters is. Are you living there now yes. Do you want to have that on this. So life happened. We had another child about two and a half years later and then about a year ago we looked at each other and we were like you know what we're very close. We really could do this so we actually last summer actually about this month. We really dug in and took on a lot of extra jobs a lot extra hours and here we are. We actually paid it off in February be wary. I'm so proud of y'all well very very well done absolutely fabulous and I mean you're sitting here with one hundred thousand dollar household income not payment in the world thirty four years old. You'RE GONNA be so wealthy. It's GonNa be Football Komo House payment from out of sixty five. That's five hundred million dollars. You really are going to be an unbelievable place and you have changed your family tree just by being intentional watching what you're doing focusing working working a plan that works and while you guys feel it feels fantastic. I mean obviously with being intentional. We knew this day would come but to now like we said we've spent went the whole summer saying yes to a lot of things we've taken kids. We've done vacations amuse more talks on the weekends. We went to Destin Florida for a week and we've done amusement parks and just said yes to a lot of things and it's been enjoyable for the whole family because for so long we were just saying no. It's not in the budget. It's not in the budget this month so but it wasn't that long you're thirty four you live like no one else though and so now you can live and give like no one else she can say yes to a lot of things generosity you can say yes to kids you can say yes to investing and continue to bill wealth and change your family tree like I was saying you're going to be in that one of those everyday millionaires before we know it so. Early on your Gosh thank you. We've actually been quite not shocked but but before we pay pay our house off we didn't really have a lot of discretionary income to give and so over the last year actually two years we started prototyping and that has really just opened up a joy in my heart that I didn't know really was missing in. We've been able to give to community members strangers. You know everyone though that we come into contact with has a need and it's just so nice to be able to meet that need. It may seem big to them but for us. It's just such a small sacrifice to make to make such a big difference yeah tires on single MOMS car and I blink you know. You don't think that that's not even a house payment. It might not and that's just one month and you can do anything. It's it's amazing the position it puts you in people don't grasp it and it's worth fighting to get there. It is it's worth the sacrifice to get there the scratching and clawing and and all of that what was the hardest part for you. Oh well honestly couple things for me. One just the perseverance to do it eight years is a long time and having two children and you kinda get stuck in the grind so we actually would listen to a lot of debt free screams to stay motivated and another portion is when you're in that grind with two kids you're tired and you don't always feel like cooking but would have been a lot easier to go out every night but staying on budget with food in particular that was hard but it was well worth it because we've been able I've been able to do it like a meal plan for the month and it just helps with planning and grocery shopping and it kind of has a ripple effect that I didn't anticipate but that for me was kind of developing that system was difficult at first I it's interesting when you get disciplined in one one of these nuanced areas it opens the discipline up in the others and then and when you get generous in one of these nuanced areas it opens up the generosity generosity and other areas. It's very very contagious this stuff as it works its way works. Its way through your life a very well now. Dan You guys excellent. Did you have people cheering you on or saying. You're crazy well if they thought we were crazy. They didn't tell us about you behind your back. Did they speak on that now. We had a lot of supporters family friends. We've had a lot of people along the way that really also inspired us to continue you know during those times when it was difficult neighbors Eric and amy side bottom they started the journey two hundred sixty thousand paid off house and everything at thirty four and eight years maybe at one twenty five down to ninety nine Robbie and Julia count it down. Let's hear a debt free scream. I we need to give a shoutout Gwyneth. AN-AND YEP ready Freddie three to one Suzanne is in Columbus Ohio Hi Suzanne. How are you hi? I'm good thank you so much for taking my call sure what's up well. <hes> I'm a new listener and I just finished the total money makeover today and yesterday we completed baby step one <hes> but about eight months ago we did some really stupid things when we bought the house that we're in now the biggest of which was buying it before for. I got my paycheck. My first paycheck from a new job that I just started and when we got the paycheck we discovered that my pay was about forty percent less than what we had figured it was going to be due to mandatory retirement that was taken out <hes> taxes were a lot higher in our insurances were higher than we thought they were going to be. <HES> so fast forward to today last week we put the House on the market because we just decided that we can't afford it <hes> we've been trying to increase increase income by selling some stuff and I'm looking for a part time job <hes> but my question is until our income increases to we default on our other payments or two two and keep paying the mortgage or do we allow the house to go into foreclosure <hes> while we're still trying to continue with the baby step. What are the debt? Do you have other than your home. We have twenty thousand on a camper. We're we're trying to sell <hes> we have three thousand on a credit card and two thousand and medical and what is your husband make a year. He makes he makes about thirty eight and I make about twenty two <hes>. Is that take home pay. Yes Sir Okay Shiva sixty thousand dollar income. How much is your house payment? Nineteen twenty five okay <hes>. Are You doing your written everydollar much it yet. I just started. I just got that all entered last week doing a whole week. Okay yeah yeah the campers up for sale the houses up for sale. We're changing as many directions as we can hear a garage. Sale is in order craigslist. craigslist stuff is for sale. All that kind of stuff is going on. Both of you are looking for part time jobs. That's that that's a good thing <hes> to get this to balance I think though how much is the payment on the camper it to twenty okay. I was making payments of two fifty to try to pay don't faster but then you know we stopped doing that to start doing the baby steps. I think you can make all these payments. You can have no life but I think you can make these payments okay. Let's prioritize though to help you with that yeah but I mean you got twenty three hundred and you've got five thousand our take home. Pay On those two payments as twenty three hundred now leaves you seventeen hundred to buy food and lights. You know you ought to be making this. I don't think you're in default but yeah but we're not GONNA be paying for piano lessons in our house into foreclosure okay so you know if you're choosing between House foreclosure or closure in that the kids get to <hes> you know. We're GONNA everyone's limiting lifestyle right now because we're in crisis mode now. I'm not saying I'm not saying don't feed them but a short short of that <hes> you can make this <hes>. You just got to tighten down so. So anyway here's your priorities. The first thing you buy is food. Okay groceries not eating out you don't need to see you. Don't need to see the inside of a restaurant less. You're working there then second thing you do is you pay lights and water the third thing you pay house payment. Okay the fourth thing you do. You don't have any car payments you keep gas. Keep gashing a car so what I what I just did. Anti what I just did was the what we call the four walls but it's all it's all seventh grade civics lesson the necessities of life for Food Shelter Clothing Transportation and utilities. We do those first that keeps the four walls of your house standing. You have a place to live. It's heated the kids are eating. Everybody's eating. Were driving the cars and going to work. That's really that's where we start is getting these real basic necessities of life taking care of you've got enough to cover all of that. That wasn't the camper and that wasn't the mastercard credit card okay there. The last thing on the list is the camper okay <hes> well. Actually I pay the pay the credit card but the last two things on the list are the <hes> the the the <hes> camper and then the credit card because credit card can't do anything short term except except damage your credit long short term. The camper could repo you if you just quit painted altogether <hes> but you got it up for sale so we're going to get rid of but that's GonNa be helpful so I think you're GonNa get through this but what you've got to do is just prioritize from most important thing to least important thing the least important thing I heard in this list so far as the credit card next to that's the camper <hes> the most important Gordon things your family being taken care of food shelter clothing transportation and utilities see what the medical bills coming on that you didn't mention you had medical bills two thousand and medical then they would be down there by the credit card because there's nothing there's nothing they can do secured debts come before unsecured debts and both are at the bottom once we get past necessities because secured debts they can take stuff unsecured debts. They bother you right eventually. They'll sue you an eventually they'll garnish you but you're going to get to this long before that happens because the house is going to tell the Campers GonNa say you're going to be a better place. I mean this is a matter of months. It's not a matter of years okay so you you survive three months doing this. You're going be you know. Everything's GonNa turn how campers going to sell. You're going to be the side of this and you're gonNA be going man. We almost screwed that up right but we got out of it by the skin of our teeth right. That's what you're going to be saying. <hes> thank God you're turning the corner here but here's the thing if you eat feet and have lights and water and have a place to live and you have transportation emotionally the rest of it is just a monopoly game in your behind but when you get inside your house inside those four walls and you start having the lights turned off or getting foreclosed on in your homeless or that kind of stuff now emotionally your relationship. Everything's been invaded then and your stress level goes through the roof but if you separate necessities he's from the rest of it's just a game losing right now. I can lose a game but I don't WanNa lose my house that makes sense yeah so that lowers your stress level. It's not GonNa go away until you get rid of the house and the camper hamper but it lowers your stress level and if these collectors call just say you know you're you're to down the list until you right now. I'd like to I'd like to but I can't get to you. You know you're on the list and the more you call the further on the list you drop. They just have some fun with it right. We're not setting out to destroy credit. We're not setting out to not pay bills. That wasn't your plan. It's not my plan but I'm GonNa take care of your family. I because that's the best way for your bills to actually get paid later. If you get this out of order you're GONNA get all stressed out and it's going to mess up your marriage and you're GONNA end up in bankruptcy court in divorce court and all this other stuff. We don't want any of that stuff going on now. We're just going to lock arms here and fight our way through this a little bit of stupidity and it'll be in your rear view mirror within within a year. How will I know well? They put the House on the market competitively. Put the camper on the market competitively game so priced competitively good question. Thank you for joining US sometimes when you're scared and I've been scared you're scared scared scared. I've been scared man. I'm terrified sometimes when you're doing that. It's hard to think clearly one good rule of thumb when you're facing something like that where the fear is coming at you is just stop and break the problem down into bite size pieces and go okay. What what can I do? What what variables can I control okay? Our family can eat. That's good so we're not hungry one less thing to worry about lights and water on <hes> we're bathing and we we are drinking water and <hes> we have electricity so we have heating and cooling one less thing to worry about. We're GONNA pay the rent or the mortgage. <hes> now the place to live and do all that we're GONNA put the gas in the car so we can go to work. Yep pay the car payment. If you got one right now and you start working your way down these necessities I and you really start understanding. The rest of the stuff is just a really ugly game and you work your way through. It and that's all we did sir. You can do this too. If you need help you call here. We're here to help people. It's a pretty simple thing. This is the Dave Ramsey show. Hey guys it's Blake Thompson senior executive of the Dave Ramsey show over fifteen million people visited the Dave Ramsey show every a lot of people listen and one of over six hundred radio stations across the country to find a station near you had the Dave Ramsey dot com slash make more money doing what you love checkout Christie Rights Business Boutique podcast Christie's inspiring and equipping women to become successful running their own business hand Christy Wright and I help women all over the country take their ideas and passions and hobbies and turn them into profitable businesses. If you have an idea in your head or dreaming your heart and you've ever wondered if you could make money.

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Part Two: John Ronald Brown: The Worst Surgeon Ever

Behind the Bastards

47:59 min | 1 year ago

Part Two: John Ronald Brown: The Worst Surgeon Ever

"Here's the thing saving money with. GEICO is almost better than playing pickup basketball. Because there's always that guy who joins your game. He never passes the rock. He constantly bricks threes. And who completely hack you. And then put his hands up and say no foul no foul with GEICO. It's easy to switch switch and save on car insurance no need to fake. An ankle sprain. Because you're absolutely exhausted. So switching save with GYCO. It's almost better than sports episode. Start Begin now Robert Evans behind the bastards podcast part to John Ronald Brown Sophia Alexandra guest private parts unknown introduction. Bad Tire you doing sophia. Good just mentioned my other podcasts. For twenty days beyond more work with Mile Gray forgot to include forty percent of the actual words necessary to make that got salad. Not gibberish so. Of course I forgot your second. PODCAST faster a disaster. I think you will keep having a disaster until you commit to going back to the old ways what I have my wise. I have committed to getting fired and becoming corrupt small-time cop. I think that's is the path. I WanNa Watch jaws recently seen in the second jaws movie now sheriff noting. Oh man it's a great. There's a scene in the second jaws movie were sheriff. Brody gets out of his police car and is preceded by forty or fifty beer cans tumbling out onto the ground around found him and all that jazz like that's exactly what I wanna do for a living just rolling around in a police car drunk as shit with a gun. No no accountability and some beach town in the middle of nowhere. You'RE GONNA be a corrupt small town. COP does as as we discussed in the previous episode. I will be performing arming unauthorized surgeries and at that point. I'm GONNA need a friend Ryan the police department. Yeah this is the plan. Hey would you like to the non doctor. Conman Veterinarians Dr Spence to my doctor Ronald. Yeah Yeah not usually. She was clearly top. You already have a role to play. Would you feel with you on anything friend. Perfect we got a clinic going Robert keep us out of the papers all right well. That's good you know so. So it's it's complicated. I feel like I want to know more about spence because this is not just a simple man pretending to be a doctor. This is a man pretending to be a veterinarian who pretends pretends to be a doctor and that's like a whole different layer of scam innis areas that he needed to himself to step one. He's like no pretending to be Dr Doctor. He's like I can't do that. That's too much lying. I pretend to be a vet out of their pretending to be a doctor. That's not that far. I can do that. Yeah it's amazing. I think it's really amazing. Can we picture of him to be looks picture. Because I'd like what the faces of that firmware. You're not for clinic. He died in a ditch lake. That is my assumption that he died in a ditch overdosing on something horrible If the world is in any way just in which it's not he would have died in Spanish so let's start start to Now as I mentioned in the first episode John Ronald Brown didn't only have sad stories in terms of his patients. He had some happy customers. One of them was portrayed Baxter She was a longtime client and she calls him one of the best surgeons in the United States. Even though by the time she met him he was no longer legally allowed allowed to practice surgery. In the United States Still Dr Brown illegally gave Patrice a Tummy Tuck a facelift and breast implants. She was so happy with the results that she had him cut into her granddaughters granddaughters ears quote. They stuck out. The kids under track team called her Dumbo. Why don't you just fly? He did her nose to Patrice claims. The surgery went well enough that her granddaughter went went on to work as a model so she clearly admired the man. But even Dr Brown's number one fan acknowledge that he had some faults. She's also is a good person if she's getting a years locking granddaughter cut. We haven't even gotten into what a bad person. She is a great guy right away. She said he was brilliant but he had no common sense would walk through plate glass doors. He couldn't balance his checkbook screen door before that is embarrassing and shameful now whispering me to tess Tusk Tut Tut Tusk Tusk. Who says that no one? She acknowledged that his bedside manner was not exactly great Sometimes he would grab a magazine mid conversation and start reading. He mumbled frequently and he never held his patients hands. Still Patrice insists. He was more of a hero than a villain. He only charged twenty five hundred dollars exchange and half the time they didn't even pay now before you take Pat Baxter's commentary too seriously. You should know that she wasn't just a satisfied customer. She was also a surgical entrepreneur. which is one of the most terrified phrases I've ever heard in San Diego in ran a shady ass clinic and Mahyco? She and John Brown became business partners and work together for years. She urged John to expand his repertoire beyond basic plastic surgery and gender reassignment. There was she told him of vast untapped market in men who wanted bigger Dick's O-man I'm kind of excited about where this is going. This is going into funder under exit. And it's one of those things we've just been talking about the most vulnerable people in the world getting screwed over by this guy announced addicts about this. Yeah I mean societal yes yeah okay. Yeah so Dr. Brown got into subpoenaed extension business in nineteen eighty six penthouse forum. Sent a writer to to want to investigate Brown's practise now the good not a doctor had started claiming and advertisements admits that he could add one to two inches to addict by cutting the suspensory ligament that held the penis route to the pubic bone which I wrote as public bone which is not a thing but I found funny the article titled The Incredible Dick. Dr Portrayed Dr Brown actively as a horrible driver who frequently backed into other cars. It pointed out that his pants fell down. Once in the cartoon. That's basic imagine right before Dr Starts Cutting into you is pants fall down. You're like okay. I have to cancel the surgery if I will die. When Indiana fucking telling everyone an anvil just falls on his head? That's ridiculous to at one point in the article. He accidentally cut a patient's penile shaft. Sending blood spurting all over the room. His quoted response to this. Fuck up was. I made a boo boo. I guess it was hoops but this is worse. That's definitely worse than so someone from inside edition must have been reading penthouse for the articles because three years later they sent a team to investigate Dr Brown the resulting documentary. The worst. Dr In America was filmed with Brown's oblivious consent. At one point it showed showed him performing scalp surgery on a trans woman. Who was supposed to be sedated? But the sedation didn't take in the patient screamed and cried while the team recorded brown called this nothing unusual. There's a special segment of one interview. That I think is worth me reading in full inside edition this narrating but to Brown failure is no reason to proceed with caution and he continues to experiment on humans whenever he develops a new procedure. And this is Brown talking back in the developmental stage. Remember several times asking myself is. Is it really right for me to be doing. What amounts to experiments on some of these people after thinking it all through these people knew what I was doing? They knew I wasn't. It wasn't proven experiment. They were all willing so the thought about whether I have any more responsibility and I decided no no school. Nah So Cherry the young woman who's Sister got a sex change with Dr Brown definitely considered him to be a dangerous Kook but acknowledged he gives gives you a vagina at a fair price. Competent Doctors Charge twelve thousand to twenty thousand dollars for a vagina at the time. Browns fees were reasonable enough that hundreds of women chose to gamble on him in spite of the fact that his new nickname butcher brown was by far the worst yet. Not as good as Brown. Not as good as tabletop round. Now now during my research I came across a tremendous resource called the digital transgender archive. This wonderful site includes pictures articles in scans of entire issues of various zine scenes and newsletters distributed by the Trans community going back decades And I came across one from nineteen eighty nine twenty minutes and a few pages in it featured Richard a cartoon drawn by someone named Radja And Sophie you want to show her the political cartoon of Dr Brown Small Town Creep on it. Yeah that checks out. Yeah Yeah it's pretty much. Yeah he's dressed as like Jason from the Friday the thirteenth movies with the hockey mask covered in blood and a chainsaw of a patient on on and it says he's back yeah Now that cartoon was followed by a furious article about Dr Brown titled Mack. The knife and and I'm going to quote from it now. A patient no more like a victim of the nefarious. Dr Brown presented herself with the aid of a companion at the emergency room of San Francisco. General Hospital today November November Fourth Nineteen Eighty-four for lifesaving medical assistance just a week earlier in Mexico. She had the misfortune to fall into the not so tender clutches of Dr Brown by the time she arrived at SF general general she lost more than four pints of blood and was well down the road to being another not so fortunate statistic of the infamous Meat Cutter from information available. She is but one of ten recent victims of Brown's for those view contemplating surgery don't go to Mexico for it and above all. Don't let Dr Brown do it. Admittedly his price of three thousand dollars is attractive but the pain anguish and post. Surgical complications are not worth the trivial amount of money. Saved so twenty minutes had written warnings about Dr Brown before and he'd actually had someone from his office respond to them since since his potential clients read this magazine and since he knew no one from the AMA or law enforcement was reading Trans Community newsletters. He felt secure in just lying shamefully to these people to try to convince more more of them to let him commit surgery on their groins. And here's his representatives response. Many of you have heard about Dr John Ronald Brown. MD Some of it positive some negative. This letter is intended to set the record straight into inform those interested in his work. It goes on to account Dr Brown's educational history all the different hospitals. He worked at notably leaving out his repeated failures to actually pass his surgical exams. Then it gives this justification for the fact that his clinic had to be in Mexico rather than the United States due to the temporary very revoked. His license to practice in California has clinic has been moved to play US Mexico. He's currently preparing for reinstatement of his California license but states that even when he is eventually vindicated located his practice will probably remain in Mexico for various reasons especially the reduce problems of doing transsexual surgery. The reduced problems meaning like the reduced laws was governing. What you can do people performing surgery on now in that letter? Dr Brown's representative also brags about revolutionary new techniques developed taking bowel tissue to make the new vaginal canal for his patients. That's ensuring them self lubricating vagina twenty minutes notes that as a result of his failure to actually do this competently. More more than seventy of his patients had received permanent colostomy and I found a quote from writer Dallas identify on all this in the nineteen nineties Brown came to favor invasive surgery in which you would graph off the neo vagina to a section of respected colon. Has Results had never been good. The Groin area of Brown patient typically looked as if the penis had been split lengthwise and suture to the Groin with a simple hole between clean the split. Hats patients often wound up with colostomy. Several of Brown's girls dance topless using scarves to conceal the bags attached to their sides when he started going into the peritoneum things it got really scary. Patients would return home smelling of rotting flesh. Often they would return to brown going again and again. For addition each time paying large sums of money many eventually wound up in emergency rooms. I dare say some ended up dead. Now it's hard to imagine. Just how fucking horrifying receiving surgery under these conditions would have been in. There are very few first person accounts from Dr Brown's victims and none that go into a tremendous amount of detail. I did find the experiences of one Trans Woman Canary Conn who received her gender reassignment surgery in Tijuana and she went with a better Dr and Dr Brown one of the better doctors in the area so as I read the story. I want you to remember that. What Brown's patients would have woken up with was actually worse than this So so this is a better case scenario than Dr Brown. And it's still pretty fucking horrifying somebody please please come here. I cried and reached for the button. Keeping it in my hand accuser wet feeling was gathering around my legs. At first I was too frightened to peer under the sheets but as the chill increased a reached for the chain over my head with the light on. I lifted the sheets than I panicked. The sheet under me was a pool of blood and more was flowing from between my legs. I pressed the button again and again began to scream for help thinking about attaching myself from the bed. I propped myself on one arm but then and fainted and fell back when I woke up. Some ten or fifteen minutes later the blood had made its way down one side of the bed to the floor. I was weaker now and the pain didn't matter I was bleeding to death sobbing i. I began to pray aloud. The nice screamed again and again until my voice faded into hoarseness grabbing a book from the table I tried to throw it through the window but it fell for my fingers into the pool of blood. The chills had changed a small convulsions. I tried to call myself bidding my head. I looked once more at the side of the bed. Half covered with life's liquid. It looked pretty somehow red on white. I couldn't help thinking how ironic it was that I had worked can save all this time to pay for my own death. I would be my own executioner and again this. Is someone waking up in a clinic. So this is someone getting surgery from one of these doctors who actually does provide Dr Aftercare. Dr Brown's patients typically woke up in hotels or cars are going the same thing not attached attached to a bed not in like obviously canary eventually did get medical help. It just took a while for. I think the the the the clinic to realize what was going on. But what a nightmare. You're bleeding the death in you know it and you paid for your just like sober. Yeah yeah in. In the case of Dr Brown's patients this is happening like the back of a Ford Fiesta. it's it's hard to imagine so Despite the fact that he'd moved his practice to Mexico presumably because he couldn't legally perform surgery in the US. Dr Brown still repeatedly performed surgeries in the United States throughout the nineteen eighties in Nineteen eighty-four. He was arrested forgiving presentation where he offered to penile lengthening surgery. To to a group of men in San Diego he only received a slap on the wrist for this and continued traveling around California to perform minor surgery. Cherry recalled. He'd shoot silicone silicone anywhere. You wanted it for two hundred dollars do breast surgery for five hundred. He'd do cheeks breasts and hips after injections you had to lie flat on your back for three days. So the silicone wouldn't go anywhere. He plugged the holes with crazy. Glue is a big fan of crazy. Glue Yeah Shane. These are the people that have been busted for doing this stuff. Who Don't Y'all in Los Angeles County? One patient filed a complaint against Dr Brown for a breast enlargement procedure. He had performed on her. It turns out that rather than performing any kind of surgery. He he just shoved a needle into her breasts and injected them with raw silicone. He then closed the holes with crazy. Glue another patient a genetic female named Mona complained that after Dr Brown gave her face facelift face peel hijab and breast implants. He did not do a good job during the facelift. He severed a nerve in her face leaving her with a permanent crooked smile her implants failed which caused the breasts to rot and leak fluid her boyfriend described as smelling like cat piss. Then they fell off to his credit. Dr Brown performed some aftercare for Mona she. She recalled that at some point. He showed up to inject her with painkillers wearing only one shoe. Oh my God wow what a good sign to not let someone doctor Dr on you. When they're wearing just one shoe you're going to inject someone with medicine and you couldn't get your shoe game on point for the day? Let's go ahead and like extended to the whole outfit if you're missing anything from the outfit you're you're on a time out for Dr for the moment it's like a guy trying to shoot. Did you up with insulin. While wearing board shorts like no no go ahead and pass yeah now. Despite all this Har- It was the inside edition episode that finally drew some serious legal attention to John Ronald Brown the FBI went after him confiscated his money shutdown his clinic and charged him with practicing medicine without a license. He had previously been convicted for prescribing narcotics with revoked license. And practicing under a false name with all of that on his record you might expect him to serve some serious time that that seems like a significant crime right He was sentenced to three years in prison and served in nineteen months. Oh my God yeah. Nineteen eighteen months So for a brief period of time about a year he worked as a cab driver on Coronado Island Which is possibly the only job he ever did that? He might have been qualified for for remember. They said that he got con constantly. Rear ended people and got into car. Accidents actually went into only other profession. He could kill. It's not okay okay. You're absolutely right. Like he picked the one other job that he was dangerously. Jura sleep bad at. I mean we really key could he. We have gotten him to be like a Walmart greeter. Just something where you harmless you know home. I feel like as a Walmart. greeter he would have gotten people killed just directing them to the wrong. I'll need just throwing peanuts. Eh Kids with allergies so policy already interviewed John About this period in his life and Dr Brown insisted that the time in jail didn't indeterminate from his chosen calling in the least he said that he decided long ago to rebel against what he saw as the unjust medical establishment. I didn't like some of the things that Organiz doctors were doing. So I- rebelled later. I didn't like what the government was doing in support of the medical organizations. So I- rebelled. I chose to ignore the laws. He's a hero hero Sophia. Yeah after a year. John was able to put together enough money to reopen his surgical practice in Tijuana China. For a couple of years he continued shopping into whoever would pay primarily servicing. The Trans Community if you can call what he did a service nineteen ninety-six. He had carried out an estimated six hundred gender reassignment surgeries. That is the year he met. Gregg furth now. Greg was a cycle when you meet. I'm Greg Greg with two GS three. Actually yeah this is even worse than the regular Greg Greg. There are five letters in Greg. First name in three of them are G. It's it's a disaster is going to not end. Well it does not now. Greg was a psychoanalyst from New York City in addition to to being a well respected mental health expert I also suffered from a rare condition known as a potential failure. You've heard of EPA Timothy Leah. Now the person who coined that term nineteen seventy seven John Mony described it as an extreme sexual fetish wherein victims desire to sever their own limbs. So they can have better orgasms latte. Yeah Way why did I. Why do the limbs getting away of a good orgasm? That's a great question and we're GONNA talk about epidemic affiliate a little bit more in a minute but you know what won't several your limbs to give you better orgasm so via the following goods and services. That's exactly right. That is the guarantee we make is that none of these products will sever your limbs in the pursuit of an orgasm. I'm Robert Evans host of behind the bastards. And if if you're fan of my work you know we live in uncertain times and in two thousand twenty. They're just getting uncertain her. That's why I'm here today. To talk about simplisafe home security simplisafe can provide vite your home with commercial grade enterprise level security. Now we're talking about outdoor cameras doorbells to alert you to anyone approaching your home. Injury motion and glass break sensors sensors to protect the inside of your home and of course they also warred against fires. Water damage in carbon monoxide poisoning and winning alarm is tripped simply safe can ensure that police Eliecer first responder dispatch gets tear home up to three hundred and fifty percent faster than they do with a normal burglar alarm all this for fifty cents a day with no contracts so go to simplisafe dot com slash bt be today to get free shipping on your order plus a sixty day money back guarantee so. There's no risk that simplisafe dot com slash bt be to save on home security today again. SIMPLISAFE DOT com slash. We're we're back and we're talking about how there should be a legal limit on the number of jeez allowed in the name and I'm GonNa say zero all right. That just drags are raised now all they just raised now. Yeah exactly name yeah just wrath deal with it so apple Timothy Feeley is usually described arrived as an extreme sexual fetish about wanting to several your own limb for a better orgasm that is not how many sufferers of affiliate describe it. Okay what are they. Yeah I in a lot of other people with it argued that these sexual angle is either minor or nonexistent and a lot of cases Greg doesn't even like the term epidemic affiliate affiliate he prefers body identity transfer one suffer. I found interviewed in Salon. Described the way her condition made her feel in this way quote for me sexuality actuaries being comfortable with my body inside. I feel my legs. Don't belong to me and they shouldn't be there. There's just an overwhelming sense of despair. Sometimes I don't want to die but there are times I don't don't WanNa keep living in a body that doesn't feel like mine now. I seems to agree with this more or less insisting and interviews. It's not about sex. It's not about getting off with someone. This is about the coming able bodied so these people suffering this will claim that like. It's not I don't want to get it removed because it's hot to have to lose a limb I feel like this isn't and my body part and I can't be comfortable in my own body while I have this armor late because they're not alien limb but they're not capable of realizing that that's like a disorder or are they. I think they are but I think a lot of them would say that the treatment for the disorder have the fucking leg removed or whatever. I'M NOT GONNA come down on this one way or the other. This is just what they will say that. So yeah I mean I think it's about I'm like yeah and there are some people who definitely like their amputation. Fetishists assists and stuff to located. I think the I think some people will argue. That folks like Greg just have an amputation. Fetish and I think some sufferers of abdomen affiliate. I will say it's not a fetish. It's like a body dis- morpheus sort of thing. This is not my limit I need it removed and there are people who will be like you just saying that so you can try to get surgery because it gets hot like I really don't know I'm not a fucking expert on. I mean it doesn't really matter but like Anorexia or something. It's like you know you're looking in the mirror and you see something that it's not. There's not right so you're like no. I have to keep getting thinner. I'm not thin. It doesn't look right like I can't Jhelum this then but it's ultimately something thing that you know you recover from if you work on it but I guess not. I don't know if it doesn't work like that for this. I have no idea We'll we'll we'll. I'll tell a little bit more and we'll see how we feel. Definitely Greg actually does seem to have a bit of a recovery But Yeah we're building to that so for years Greg I had sought to have his legs surgically amputated And there are some reputable surgeons who will do this for people with epidemic affiliate Unfortunately fortunately the one I tried to contract had to back out of doing the surgery after the public hospital he worked at rescinded his privileges due to bad publicity There were actually protests in Scotland win against voluntary amputation. Being legal at all And when this all blew up in the news I dr the guy who tried to go with complained that banning safe voluntary amputations in hospitals would only make the problem worse for his patients quote. They may take the law into their own hands. They may lie on a railway line and get run over by a train they may use shotguns and shoot their limbs off off they really are quite a desperate bunch and the doctors kind of proven right in some of this that like you know When someone has this kind of It's tough because like a lot of doctors will say it's immoral fundamentally to do this because your job isn't to remove healthy tissue you. Yeah I think other doctors might claim that like these. People clearly aren't healthy so you are helping them by doing this. It's very complicated medical ethics Or at least it seems complicated to me Let us know if you're a doctor if you would remove someone's leg voluntarily Hit US up now. Once his plans to remove his leg legitimately with the real doctor in a real hospital fell through greg. I started searching around for other places where he might have his alien leg removed in Nineteen ninety-six he read a story about an underground surgeon based out of San Diego despite the man's nickname butcher Brown's good to me that's good. That's what I'm looking for. Yeah great decided. This guy was a good person to reach out to and Dr Brown was of course only too happy to help stacy running the DA who prosecuted brown for what later happened. said he saw all the same. You cut off a BOOB. You cut off a penis cut off a lake. Sounds like a quality doctor no difference between any of of those things now. I negotiated with Dr Brown and eventually they managed to settle on a price in nineteen ninety seven. He flew down to Mexico to finally lose his alien leg. But when he showed up at Brown's makeshift. Or the Mexican. Dr Brown had hired to assist him realized he was about to help her a healthy leg I recalled. He kept saying. This isn't right so you don't want this eventually. The Mexican doctor left the building and Brown was forced to cancel the surgery. Since it turns out amputating is a little bit of a two man job so hello Brown agrees first flies down there and like Brown gets an actual doctor in Mexico to help and that guy is like he tricks him basically and once he realizes what's happening is like I'm not going to I do this. This is fucked up so good on that Dr a year later in one thousand nine hundred eight John Brown called with what he called good news an bad news. The good news was he'd found another doctor. The bad news was it would now cost ten thousand dollars by this point. I was less convinced that he even wanted to commit to the surgery but he decided to give it a shot his good friend and fellow alien legs suffer. Filip bondy scolded him for considering bailing on the opportunity. Telling him you'll regret this the rest of your life. How ironic because you can't undo what your leg but you can always undo having your leg? Those people are not super rationally thinking about this problem I don't feel not to APPA Timothy Leary. Shame them but I don't think you should do this. And I think given what happens next time right so I travel to San Diego and took a taxi to the clinic into WANNA By the time he arrived he concluded that his his compulsion to have his leg removed was gone he told Brown absolutely not And this would kinda tend to suggest that like actually yeah. You shouldn't have your legs or moved if this is the kind of thing that seeing how horrible the Oh Arken like remove you of your compulsion Anyway here's how. La Weekly sums up. What happened next thinking? Perhaps that I was was merely nervous. Brown offered him a sedative but for testified. He didn't want to be sedated. He wanted out of there before leaving however he suggested that what he thought would be a win win solution for everyone even though he no longer wanted the operation himself new someone else. Who did? Maybe we could switch it around said firth. Philip could take my place and it turned out that Philip Bundy's appetite feely. It was much stronger than a firths. He flew right to Mexico and on May ninth. Nineteen Ninety Eight Dr. John Brown's severed his leg. Normally surgery. Like this would be an inpatient in procedure You would not want to but if you know John Ronald Brown you know. He doesn't do inpatient procedures now. Instead he drove the freshly amputated Filip Bondy fifteen miles into the desert with. Dr Brown tossed his Lincoln of the car to be eaten by coyotes. Oh my gosh. Why was that? His first idea college coyotes. The first idea you you have for getting rid of a leg because he is John King Brown. That is crazy nurse nurse coyotes. We'll be assisting in the procedure their medical medical coyotes. Oh my God. Those are probably the only people that worked in disciplining that actually were the most competent and medical works. You know what the coyotes did their job properly. We did. Yeah competent people. Yeah now after throwing his patients leg out of a car. John Brown drove his patient into California to a holiday. Dan gave them a ten minute lesson walking with crutches and drove off into the sunset to counters money. Oh my God oh God. It's a nightmare. Two days later Greg I went to check up on his friend in the Holiday Inn and found him dead. An autopsy revealed that gas gangrene from an improperly sterilized leg-stump had been the coporate Philip's Philip's death would have been an agonizing almost unimaginably painful affair. This was the case that finally made the law. Treat Dr John Brown as the menace to society society that he so clearly was It's telling that he had to finally kill a straight man before this happened. I'm not just saying that. The score points Police started yeah after the police. We started digging into Dr Brown. The detective in charge of the case made a point of looking at some of Brown's other patients and I'm going to quote policy with the La Weekly again when D- investigator estimator Basinski Atallah. Outgoing former COP with shaved head in the big grey moustache began calling on the people. On Brown's patient lists a lot of them just hung up on him. Some were hookers. He said some thought they were in trouble. Some just didn't like the police. I called one woman in an older woman answered. Why do you want my son? She said he committed suicide. Two weeks ago as Basinski later learned Christina. Tina formerly known as Eddie had mortgaged her house to pay for a total of ten surgeries by Brown but according to legal documents filed by running the skin graphs. That Brown used to line. Christina's vaginal walls were so thin they tore during intercourse. When Brown removed Christina's lower ribs to give her a narrower and more feminine waste she subsequently developed an abscess as big as a basketball Christina's nose job turned got so poorly that she ended up with different sized nostrils one of which turned up like that of a pig? Christina complained brown that he'd made her vaginal entrance to small. But when Brown enlarge it Christina felt he'd ruined her today Brown says he feels badly that he didn't better explain the procedure to Christina but when he called the teller he was refunding. Five hundred dollars. Her mother told him that her son had just hanged himself in the garage. According according to running Brown took the news quite calmly noting merely that transsexuals had a high suicide rate and I should note. I'm reading a quote from an article there Siada consistently correctly A Gender Christina Christina's mother mischief. Yeah those are her quotes on the matter though. Yeah so there you go fucked up. It's also super fucked up. Also removing the ribs like. Yeah that's not okay. I mean and it's kind of buried carried a little bit but the most fucked up thing there is that win. Dr Brown learns that one of his patients. His kilter doesn't care just like a lot of my patients. Kill themselves actually happens happens constantly It's amazingly terrible And it it it. It goes to show that like John is usually shown as having killed one in person Bundy but he killed a lot of people they just. The law didn't care about them. oftentimes is that story shows. Their parents did neither and also just like the fear of Who whoever the fear of whoever it is calling and checking on? You means like you're not really getting the full information anyway. Yeah Yeah because like a lot of these patients were sex workers. They're not gonNA talk to a fucking cop to cop legitimately legitimately cares about what's being done to them like it doesn't matter So Dr Brown was arrested in police. Search to San Ysidro apartment. They found bloody shoes. Pillows used needles vials of silicone. Dozens of empty tubes of crazy glue bloody towel soaking in bleach and dozens of return to advertising brochures for his horrible horrible clinic. One of the brochures read as follows. Boys is going to be unpleasant to read the prettiest pussies are John Brown pussies. The happiest patients are John Brown patients because number one. Each has a sensitive clip number two all ninety nine percent get orgasms number three careful so skin. Draping gives a natural appearance number. Four men love the pretty pussies and the sexy response. Yeah well all of that. Obviously not drew image allies. Yes horrible horrible is now also found in Dr Brown's apartment where videotapes of the bad doctors. Operations these videos were given names that reflect the level of professionalism. I think we've all come to expect from John Breaux. God I'm trying not to laugh but it's it's like one was titled. Jack has a new his whole behind his balls. again K.. This is how the doctor labeled his surgery tapes Yeah Well bizarre that video was not what hit prosecutors the hardest in brown stash. They came across a recorded sex. Change Surgery which showed Brown using a scalpel. So Dole he had had to use it like a saw jerking back and forth into the patient's flesh Yeah as the media's chief expert on tabletop Brown pulse yellow spent a lot of time talking to the detectives and prosecutors trying to put brown away. They showed him some of these videos. And here's how he describes one in the videos opening shot which is reminiscent. Listen to that famous scene from the crying game attractive Asian girl and the soon to be Las Vegas stripper is shown standing naked from the waist. Up quietly chatting with Brown. Who is off camera? She has nicely Ashley formed breasts in abundant black hair. That cascades down your shoulders then slowly. The camera moves down her body. And suddenly you realize she has a penis when the actual surgery starts I find it so unsettling thing that I have to turn off the tape. All the men had the same reaction says running the judge asked. Do I have to watch this video. I said well yes you do. Your the judge. Yeah Yeah I You know part of me is like I e I kinda like running here. Because he's like yeah you have to watch this. You have to know what this guy did to properly since him and like just because it's gross You don't get to not look at did you would look at photos of a murder. And that's what this guy did so we're going to watch videos. I respect that a lot. you know what I also respect. Sofia goods and services The products and services that support this show. I'm Robert Evans hosted behind the bastards and my mental health isn't always the greatest because I read about horrible people all the time. If you're like me maybe you should consider better help online counseling. The offer licensed counselors who specialize in a variety of issues just like depression and anxiety you can connect privately and the rates are really affordable and right now behind the bastards. Listeners will get ten percent off their first month by using the Discount Code. Bt Be that's better help dot com slash bt be so get some help at better help dot com slash TB it back so apparently Brown had intended that tape and other tapes. Advertising in training videos The second seen in that tape we just described shows the doctor sitting in a chair wearing a white coat and explaining the upcoming operation to the camera. He has a microphone in his hand is shaking says running you see. AM reach up and grab his hand and this is his dominant hand. The one he operates with he holds up crude drawings ripped out of a spiral notebook he says this is the corporate the corporate he stumped on the word. He finally says that the Kapoor Cavern Osa. The spongy tissue on the underside of the pianist. He goes off in this vein. You can see him waving the cameraman off when he loses a thought. The tape was so crude you could hear dogs barking working. During the surgery and music playing the scrotal skin was lying on a board it had push pins in it it was so dirty and dried out. It looked like it had been run over by tire. Yeah the prosecution's chief witness was a young trans woman named Camille. She was one of the only victims of Dr Brown who was willing to testify in court prey to her surgery. Camille had I've been an insurance underwriter claims. Dr Brown botched her surgery so badly that she was basically unemployable now. Her surgery went down in November. Nineteen ninety-seven quote. He gave me an epidural. I woke up ten minutes. Prior to the end of the operation. We started talking Brown. Said we're almost done. I wasn't scared. I was happy as hell. I was finally getting what I wanted when you are climbing Mount Everest you don't worry about frostbite on the top but after the surgery was complete Camille started having difficulty with her recovery. She developed a recco vaginal fistula which caused her feces seized flow into her new vagina. This was the result of Dr Brown experimenting with his technique of using bowel tissue to create vaginal walls. She said quote. My bladder was blocked. My lymph glands swelled swelled up and my skin turned yellow. Black stuff was pouring out of my lungs. All my systems were shutting down. All he would have to do is take one breath and let go the fact that Camille Survived Abdus almost miraculous and her testimony to finally put butcher Brown away for good. He was convicted by unanimous decision and sentenced to fifteen years in prison. He expressed no remorse. It's or even real understanding that he committed horrific acts that had permanently disfigured and in many cases ruined the lives of Human Beings Paulo talked to Brown several times in prison via collect call in their last conversations. Brown expressed that his entire career was part of God's plan. He called upon John Ronald Brown to help the transgender community. And Next Brown believed God had called upon him to invent a Hyperthermia Chamber that would cure cancer AIDS in general. Herpes Brown described. This sorry the things is not like the other That seems that seems like he had arby's he's like the the other two are for humanity last ones for this. What's productive Brown? That's what it sounds like. You don't go cancer AIDS herpes in serious trouble. That's amazing yeah. Now Brown described this as using a chamber with an IV you drip. That would spray a patient with hot water to cause a healing fever In addition to this Dr Brown claimed to have developed a prototype asphalt removal machine an attachment for trailers alerts. That would make them more. Aerodynamic in a book that would provide a full explanation for the movement of tectonic plates. He had a lot of book ideas including autobiography about his medical career. And a book doc that would prove the existence of God. Oh Ronald Brown. Yeah was taken away from US too soon to finish any of these projects in two thousand ten just shy of his eighty eighth birthday. He died painfully of pneumonia in prison. I'll silver lining painfully story. Yeah painful it was a horrible death. Yeah he did not get what he deserved. No he absolutely did not and on that. Now Yeah Well Sufia what would you do if you had a leg that you hated and desperately wanted removed because you felt like it was an alien limb like what do you do you go to therapy. And I don't know try to work on on it. I don't really know see. I was going to go with shotgun. But yeah therapies probably better. I mean I I guess I feel like depression in no way is the same as this. But it's not like depression makes sense you know makes you wanNA kill yourself and if someone was just like okay okay. Here's a gun I'd be like. Oh that's not helping me. You know probably just talk me out of wandering today. Yeah that's all. Yeah that's kind of know much about apetit Delia. But it does sound like a thing. I don't know I'm that one guy changed then it's possible right. It is but maybe he wasn't as serious about it. I don't know like the dumpster backstrom right you can be really wanting your leg off and just a little bit wanting it off. I don't know the doctor who like the legit doctor who had performed some of those surgeries and then lost his operating privileges. Like there's a lake like he. He didn't make a bad point where he was like. Look some people are going to do this. And as long as you make sure you're only performing surgery on the ones who are like otherwise go blow their own legs off or lay down on a train track like you're reducing harm I. That's the there is an argument that argument. It's just that you can try to guess who the people are. That are GonNa try it anyways and you can be wrong and you know there's really no good answer if you were wrong. One way people are going to kill themselves or maim themselves on their own but if they come to you and you do it every time then and there's no chance of them ever cycle recovering so I don't know the answers there. I don't either because it's one of those things where clearly I I think if I had been allowed to perform or to undergo the surgery e clearly didn't really WanNa lose his leg and he he probably would have wound up regretting it I think but the other guy the guy who died if he'd been able to go to a real doctor in a safe with a proper. Yeah there's a good chance he would've lived so it is. It is not an easy answer to this. I don't know anything about The disease like does it spread like after you get your one leg taken care of as a possible that you'll be like oh well now this legs alien and I need to get this off and then you keep going. How does it work because because he can get addicted to plastic surgery you can probably get addicted to this too? Can't you. Who knows I assume I assume you can? I do think it's a bit different than that just because like I think it's very focused. It tends to be with these people like they're they're obsessed with this one limb But you know I'm not I'm not an expert. Burn on it It certainly a pain. A complicated tale Yes it is as is the tale of John. What are you distracted by what he doing the bad John Brown? I'm trying to like there's this screeching noise coming Over repeatedly the line and I'm trying not to be taken aback by it because it's horrible. Oh that's my parrot. I'm so sorry you I don't think so. It sounds like like somebody is like fucking old. Television does to you also me okay okay. Yeah sounds like you're leaving our area. There is Dr John Ronald Brown. It was a fun one of the the interesting things about researching. This was just Because I read had to read a lot of old articles documents. Dealing with the Trans community is like kind of experiencing the use of terminology allergy. And what's okay evolve over the course of a couple of decades. That was really interesting And I do recommend the digital transgender archive which is like a really a precious source of? You could kind of see it as an attempt to make sure that lake no matter what happens what happens with Magnus Hirschfeld's library doesn't happen again. These these historical documents of this community taking care of itself in defending itself through the decades when no one else gives shit about them That that doesn't get lost. It's a really we precious source and I found it fascinating so I I recommend given that a really read cool great yup well so you got any plug ables you want You WanNa drop down the old zone. What's the PS zone zone? What it sounds like? Ra My cloak to plug those are. You can find me on twitter and instagram. that's T H E s O F. I Y and e- Can catch me with with miles gray on our podcast. Four twenty fiance weekly. We're on a game show recap show of ninety fiance and it's ridiculous and we have sound effects and he can catch me on my other tasks private parts unknown about love and sex around the world. Who Do you can you? Can you can do that. You can catch me on my podcast worst year. Ever you could catch me on this podcast. Every Tuesday and Thursday except for Tuesdays and Thursdays that I don't do this podcast and you can find love in your heart. I hope if not sorry. That's rough. That's the available now from Iheart a new series presented by t mobile for business. The restless ones join me. Jonathan Strickland as I explore the coming technological revolution with the restless business leaders who stand right on the cutting edge. They know there's a better way to get things done. And they are ready. Curious excited for the next technological innovation to unlock their vision of the future in each episode will learn more from the restless ones themselves and dive five deep into how the five G. Revolution could enable their teams to thrive. The restless ones is now available on the iheartradio APP. Or wherever. You listen to podcasts.

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DtSR Episode 426 - TPA Winning Intelligence Collecting Zombies

Down the Security Rabbithole Podcast

45:15 min | 3 months ago

DtSR Episode 426 - TPA Winning Intelligence Collecting Zombies

"They say they say we should have known bed then to saudi. Od down down into this. It's time you the venture down the rabbit hole into the world of cybersecurity. You're plugged into the podcast for security leaders and practitioners with a business sense. Prepare for unique interviews insights and practical advice. That makes your job just as benazir and now. Please welcome your guides this adventure gerardine and the white rabbit's roth all right. Good morning good afternoon and good evening. Welcome down the security rabbit hole to yet another edition of the down the security rabbit hole podcast great winter episode for you as we as we say goodbye in hopefully good riddance to twenty twenty. Although week mother of mercy. What's in store for us for twenty twenty one. I can only imagine. Please ll bring it back to normal james We're wearing hoodies. Let's get gold it. You know it is it's It's it's chilly this morning. I think it was forty six. When i got up this morning which may not sound that bad but for florida. That's chilly del. Parco weather yeah. I go into. It was forty two that overnight freeze morning here in atlanta. And that's like. Oh god what the heck people are gonna freak out but Well it's it's it's cold out there. But it's hot on the mike so Got an awesome guest interesting topic for those of you in the intel world and in cybersecurity general. I'll let a let him introduce himself in. Die cream johnny. How are you. i'm greg good to have you here. How's it going to tell you about you and where you're from and what you do and then we'll dive into the topic sir sir. So yup so. My name is karina. Josie i am presently the founder and ceo of a company called prevail. Ian which is a interesting brainchild of mine. That sort of vaguely spun out of my experiences in the sort of two thousand ten and eleven timeframe when i built another company back then which we can get into But in short what. I do with prevail in what we do collectively is. We pursue an adversary infrastructure so command control environments of these these groups and we basically gain their perspective on who they're victimizing and then deliver that information back either to the victims directly or even more importantly to organizations that are working with contagious groups that are infected so think that kind of fear. If you're a what's it called walking dead fan you know. We're looking for zombies to protect humans that sell that is super interesting because i think this is relevant to to the listeners. The of this podcast. Anyways i know got a lot of folks in the intel ended that play in the In the defense of companies. And you're looking at it completely differently. So okay what i question. It comes completely Straight to mind is wait. A second are saying. You're you're breaking into the infrastructures of the bad guys. That sounds very interesting. Sounds like hacking back doesn't it. I see james had to go straight there kirk quite lots in active defense. Remember that one. Oh my gosh. so no. we're not. We're not hacking thankfully Be in business too long. We certainly wouldn't be able to be invested in and be hard to even maintain any kind of semblance of longevity there however on that note We are very aggressively identifying and attributing as best we can with high confidence the infrastructure of these curves and then with the aid of very unique relationships. We've established over the years. Were able to deliver that evidence of malicious to them and then they can alter based on their mandates and their terms of service that they have set up these providers either registrars providers they can alter the infrastructure to work for us. And we're able to then collect lemon tree based on their changes. So i apologize for making this compare ahead of time but this is not like north model is it. We're not creating few maps with regurgitated data from d. shield or something whatever they did Not at all so this actual telemetry were collecting from the hour. That is out there proliferated in in the community and so we're watching the beacons back in fact. If we have time it'd be cool to talk about Some of the more recent stuff with like unc. Eight and the trick bought stuff which is really definitely want to get a. I'll let you kind of get into. That's always fascinated to hear what the latest greatest Badness at the bad guys are doing. But i i'm actually super curious on because the concept sounds interesting record so you want to figure out where the bad guys are at step one figuring out where they're lodging their attacks from whether cnc systems are etc and then basically going in watching that traffic is that emceeing matching it back to like. I people oxen assets of customers yet. The second half is absolutely correct. So we're doing our best to try to actually some. The hardest part of the business is really identifying ruse. Ip belongs to whom especially with cloud now right. Nothing's released clearing well avocados less. But you know now even worse But yes so so. The first part is correct. We we do identify the to infrastructure based on two or three ways out really quickly run through him so either look through open source intel. Really believe or not. It's amazing these days. There is an immense amount of our analysis going on compared to ten years ago That people are just broadly flagrantly sharing album and know you can find a of data and then we'll pick it off that to figure out other c to infrastructure. This may be more latent and dormant so unlike ten years ago when we were looking for like a c two environment that was jettisoned. Or relinquished by the adversary. Because they figured it was already had or it's been listed jimmy times. Yeah we're look things that are living and and very much and the one piece. I would change from what you said is instead of watching passively and listening and kind of men in the middling them which is more like a net flow like come guys do a great job of that says the guys were great friends. But what we're doing is we're more like man at the terminus. Were there the c. To watching the the endpoint at it. I have to i asked. What's the legality behind that. Because how do you know very reasonable quest. Like i've been due. Diligence is awesome that now it is very legal The the the reason it is is because the collection is going to infrastructure that the provider has afforded you know that that registering okay and provider decides to alter who just like if they pointed this e to to a parked page for example or suspend aid bronzes purposes. Were that so. That's the thing we get away with this pretty and we're not going into an organization's environment you know. We're not deploying an agent to our conversation. Which would really put this in a weird place. If we were collecting intel from agent. That's installed in a location. Yeah we'd be really in a in an interesting bind but because the intel and any kind of well. I should be clear. Any kind of telemetry. We're seeing this. Organization is collected completely on the outside of their perimeter. So we're all clear that's cool. So that's that's a. If the i think if if the if the if the sort of matching of a signal to the to the indicator to the Victim is is with enough confidence. That's a great way of getting people. Pass the non-compromise compromised by seventy four different pieces of malware which one matter right right absolutely we can. We can rank by severity. we can rank by. And as we'll get into the conversation you know. I kinda come from the mandate sort of style of belief. Which is you've got to separate the weapon from the actor from the campaign. They're not all just lumped together. It's not all about abt's using o'day right. It's that's not what happens so you know. We're looking for commodity. Malware like tone-deaf being leveraged by abt thirty four and so when we're talking to organizations either that are victimized or ones that are working closely with victimize organizations will say look this is a commodity piece of our. It's being leveraged by a nation state actor. So that's why you should be worried not so much that you're dealing with this extremely malicious binary. It's because the actor is behind. It is particularly nefarious. That's a unique to question how. What's the data volume that you guys have to sift through and in part to that is how the hell do you do. It is it is it. I mean is it algorithms and Filtered to humans or what's the rabbit. it's all you need to man. I'll tell you how many times i like blown away by not saying that. That's the answer because people are so expecting hot. You're so right but believe it or not so it is programmatic. We do have a very somewhere line process that we have to do this right so once. Something is identified as a command control infrastructure that we can pursue it literally goes into a hopper effectively. It gets it gets heated. There's no manual intervention. There where there is manual. Intervention is usually maller. The just won't detonate in a sandbox of some kind whether it's custom or or you know a commodity one that we had to pull apart and reverse engineer now that's the only manual part of our business. the rest of it is completely just influx of data. And we don't sit through it to be honest wrath which is pretty interesting because by definition what we're seeing is simply the malware communication back. See too. we're not looking at all the net flow point. Everything you have is single. There's no noise that's right so we're basically starting with known bad. We're just trying to rank severity of what is and what what you worry about to your point. That's interesting okay. Because that's that actually does significantly reduce the amount of 'cause there's no. There's a false positives here. You know this is a c two server. It's beating out. Two thousand one hundred million. Whatever at points you know. Those are all talking back right there. There's no the answer is yes. Yep we're we. Have you know. I would call really maybe a false negative than perhaps a false positive is if it is indeed a researcher that is detonating our and it's coming out of an ip address that belongs to a company that may show up however this is the only part where we use algorithms to try to look at one hundred and eighty days. And if there's constant sort of patterning either it'll ice. It'll look very much like an hour that's trying to evade detection which is pretty easy to see which is cool because it looks like it's ducking and weaving in hiding and the dorsal fins going underwater. It coming back up. And then you know it's pretty obvious and if it's a sandbox environment or it's a research group usually it's like a new flavor every week that's showing up in our system right so we're like outlets that's just someone testing but when something's there consistently for like one hundred eighty days it's like yeah that's a persistent piece of our that's infecting someone. That's not a sandbox running interesting. Let's the kind of kind of stuff do you guys. I mean we're kind of stuff. Do you have cover. Is it one of the things that we keep hearing. is that The time to discovery or once the metric that the companies to use All farm dwell time. That's right are you seeing dwell time. What's the average that you guys. I'm sure you've got a veteran up somewhere we do. And and it's probably taken from some other groups that have done the research early We we pride ourselves on reducing it right obviously because if we can so good example good segue in some of the more recent stuff that happened. we saw Beacons come about from a specific loader. That was tied to the tripod stuff right and it was really low and slow. I mean we're talking like one or two beacons effectively. Nothing that probably on prem solution would really be able to identify unless they knew what they were looking for right. So let's try as a trick. Yeah it's hard because you're basically saying well you know if you're looking for a baseline or some sort of pattern it's not gonna show up because it's just too too low Quantity wise We're able to see that. And then we watched another iteration or another infection manifests from the next stage of that type of campaign so we can watch fast over stages and then we're like. Wow this thing's imminently heading toward a ransomware deployment of some kind. There are about to drop the encryption payload here in a minute and low behold they weren't quite the whole organization went silent and they show up in the news about a week and half later. It's morbid to watch How our problem when you ask a little bit earlier what the volume as we see about a billion begins day leaks. It's expensive to to maintain meaning. There's a lot of there's a lot. There's a lot of really massive amounts of effort maintenance to keep a dvd running smoothly especially considering we built a search engine for people to sift through and look for organizations and ip's that are compromised. Yep wow yeah so dwell time. Yeah you know. Sadly we're not big enough as a company like proliferated. Enough to really have dented that It's still in the two hundred and something day timeframe honestly on average. I mean that really depends on the threat. But what's really cool is that we've been able to. We've been able to bring it down from effectively days to matter of minutes because we can hand them the telemetry that we were talking about to match up to their internal tools and they zero in on exactly what machine is hosted ours is compromising. They can remediate. So that's a that's a very interesting that that's a super interesting model because if nothing else you're you're you're very rarely alerting somebody on Hey this might be like no. This is one hundred percent. Guaranteed how how receptive i guess. I guess you have to get somebody like the the getting signed up for a service like this. I guess they have to care i right. Yeah yeah you're right so it's interesting so so with prevail. Ian my last company which was explicitly focused on talk calling the victim right and unfortunately there's a term for that in the industry which is ambulance chasing right that that was well intentioned but it was a really hard business model because you are dealing with people that are not happy they do not want to hear the information you'll have to share you know they. They've got enough problems bringing more to the table. So with prevailing. What's interesting is it originally was born to deliver partner system information to them so you are. I'm not. I'm not talking to you raff about you. I'm talking about all your friends that you go to lunch with and you need to basically stay away from them for a few weeks. 'cause they all have killed hit so that's really what i'm saying and now that's not fun to hear because you don't wanna necessarily change your way to deal with your friends measurably. Enjoy this bud. If it's getting ill and not your you'll probably take that advice so people have been very receptive to that. Believe it or not the real use cases of come from that were ones. I would never have guessed so for example as a massive one that people uses for can determine whether it's worthwhile to buy or whatever so they'll do some testing. They're the user data for due diligence purposes. They'll change deal terms with our data. I mean shave off millions of dollars to the deal price and be like fix it or were taking the money off. They use it to test security infrastructure. That's already been purchased. So all of the on prem are if we see. It's not working right bottom line if it's made it outside the perimeter of the organization in all of your on prem and proxy data scrubbing tools. And all that while then obviously none of that works despite your investment And then another really interesting. Use cases starting to emerge insurance Because in its bidirectional there. The the insurance holders can use our data to file claims and insurance companies are freaked out by not because we can prove that there was indeed a compromise and evidence of compromise in their environment and then insurance companies to use. It's actually create policies. Okay but hold on so this is interesting to talk to you. But so we've seen repeatedly that some of these cyber policies explicitly for like wallpa- out if it's like what do they call it an act of war or a nation state attack or right so basically what you're saying is let me show you all the ways that you can't get reverse. Yeah so it really like the data's dream for both both sides because for the ones like you're right if it's a situation where an organization has done everything in their power to defend themselves but a viscous cybercrime group. Ta five has gotten in there and done some damage. Insurance companies have to play ball. I mean i'm not an insurance underwriter actuary person but the good news is they can take that and it's true evidence. It's here's here's what happened. This is what we did. We had all the security in place. It still happened. You're my last line of defense insurance. Pay the insurance companies and other hand can take our data and they can say. This is a really risky proposition to give a policy to. This is a great good driver. Discount person in the answer. Is it possible. Also for like an insurance company with the data that you provide to be able to come back and say based on what we got. We know you didn't do x. Y. and z. Internally because see. I mean you obviously should be able to say look this endpoint or this protection would have stopped this from happening. They obviously don't have that deployed one hundred percent because most of the time the mall where we're seeing has ab signature says that you could have downloaded and gotten rid of it many times if it's really commodity stuff. It's usually pretty easy to get rid of many times. Others other stuff's not but you're right so if you're like hey you you. Why were you infected with this. You're you told me you got these entertain a agents and they're being updated will then why didn't you know deal with it at at. What point does this. Do you have enough information to be able to fingerprint software inside an organization based on what triggers. And what doesn't right like. Remember the days when you could fingerprint web servers and all that response centers come back like viking. Look from your points and see that. This were exploded at this. Didn't and this one dead. Well you definitely run this internally yet. Now it's a great question so so this is really good segue so our data comes in sort of two. Flavors are innovations the first dns traffic right which is fairly low fidelity to be honest with you. We're only seeing the beacon x. Fill you know communication to see to. It doesn't have any meta typically typically. There's a story here So there's not there's not really any good good meta to work with. You're not able to see. And point or workstation information mac addresses no you know nothing really Now the there is another step in this and this is gonna even fryer noodle more on the legality of this work with me here. So there's the dina's call by malware to see to infrastructure right that's great that's easy that's passive that's just one directional we reply with like a null glud zero answer never. We never really answered. We have the option to answer and give it an ephemeral. ip to talk to us without affords us is full layer. Seven can connect tivoli. Tcv handshaking with malware. Getting things like workstation names to your point right and now we're saying yes. Martha underscore macintosh. You know in accounting department is the one with the problem and she's running. You know this version of big sur or whatever example. That usually is a windows machine. That is very very possible now. The funny story. And i won't wellness because the legacy certain on that one the trick fun stuff the anchor. Dns stuff was really interesting because they were they were in collecting recon on the environments by getting the dns queries. To encrypt the workstation information in it too they were transferring actual recon information to the c. Two through dns so encrypted but once you break encryption you got all these host names to look at these workstation names scary innovation to yikes so okay so the also kind of came up as you guys were talking. You said you could use this for a activity. And then i'm trying to under my brain is trying to wrestle with the legalities behind me looking up another companies right. Like if i'm going to do business with somebody acme widget corp. I'm going to go look up. You're like oh man. These guys are seriously compromise. I guess it's public knowledge. How is that from. Like scorecard like scorecards. So yeah that's i was just about to say that. So get this scorecard. Companies actively scan these organizations pounding on their attack surface without their permission most of the time and then deliver report these people we are simply relaxing and waiting for the call from the malware to call us. We didn't call them. They called us. So we're even less. Invasive than scorecard companies are more relevant and more this real. Yeah though some of the scorecard or eggs are cute but like now So is wrong anyways so well. That's the problem right. Every single one of them gets the attacks. And i can't tell you how many times i've had customers go. You guys are just might get. None of those fees are exactly right. Yeah so so. It's it's exactly the point which is interesting even though what we're collecting effectively as more critical and needed by due-diligence team. No because frankly it's showing systemic success or failure of the org right over time not their vulnerability which you can. If you did a really good concerted effort you could get them cleaned up and you can get the vulnerability to squared away. But you can't. It's kind of like yelp or tripadvisor. You can't just go change the restaurant's rating overnight if they've had rate for an entire year and that's kind of what we're looking at. We're saying you've been compromised consistently for one hundred and eighty days per. Are we probably a years worth of data in our system that we could divulge. But you're telling me that everything's fine now you've magically fixed everything. After a year of complete dwell time we put earlier of the smell one. There's there's no like the only things you're going to see are things that are compromised. So it's not like i say. Hey go look this company. You know tell you haven't seen anything from them like things that have had something we're gonna show. What's the timeline. In which wants. Somebody shows up. They do drop off if they stop beginning like. Oh i fixed problem. I'm gone two years from now if somebody came in and said hey i'm looking to do business with xyz Would you be able to pull back and say oh. Two years ago they had a You know they had malware or is there at a certain point where that drops off or do you keep that one chart does drop off in in from a visual standpoint. Ui where we say. Okay if you've been because to be honest with you. We praise and think companies that showed the like sort of cardiac heartbeat. Look which is the huge amounts of compromise drop off indicates remediation happened. We've done a good job so we think those guys are pretty cool. This is not about trying to find someone that's flatlined consonance rare to find anyone like that Because usually someone finds something gets and they deal with it right so your point. Yes we could treat this very much a credit bureau to sort of say two years ago you did have the skirmish with drove a rub from. Abc twenty you look like you dealt with it really fast and really well. Congratulations but you did have this. It's on record. Yeah so so you know and if someone wants to make a decision based on that information frankly could actually improve the decision. They could say. Well you know what this is a really sophisticated group. They've been targeted heavily by a nation state actor or a very viscous abercrombie group but they dealt with it well so it's not always a negative assertion story it it's interesting to think about You know like shawn's take on something like this where you say. I'm company acts. And i've never reported any type of incidents anywhere Someplace that yes. I had my in my systems and extolling what happens when the government comes knocking and says hey look. We want information on this company. Because you know we've heard rumor or we're under some under investigation with them and we wanna go see and they go back and look and say you know. i mean. think about uber with. Hey i see two years ago. When we're in the midst of an investigation. You had a huge power infestation. That's going to be a problem for us. And it's not reported anywhere jays less worried about the fbi. I'm worried about the ftc. If the sec big now at what point do they go because you had mentioned earlier that there's like a search engine for this stuff. Is that for customers. Get anybody go do this. Like sh- oku or something like that or do you have to be a customer to be able to search these things as interested to go look up like oh let me see. If this companies had any issues yeah So when we started it was we were a little more policing the data for franck all the reasons you mentioned right so it's not just such a free for all because it gets to be a little bit you know chaotic and crazy and and we also wanted but but you know for us as prevail. Ian wanna police it right because it gets very complicated. So what's going to happen now. So timing is everything right. We actually did build. A bulk export capability primarily because of government interest in this regard. Right they wanna be able to say will couple things they wanna be able to see vast amounts of ip space and once he countries scale wanna look at regions or total industries for example. So we deliver that on a regular basis and they can sift through it behind their firewall and not worry about us. Peaking at what they're looking at that's the same for anyone else. Wants to get it. So an insurance company could basically say we're gonna create a cyber policy for specifically oil and gas for example so they can get the entire oil and gas industry look at over a period of time and then make really informed judgment because they need statistical information to derive their policies. They can't look at the onesie twosies. That are unique. They need to have a baseline But yeah so. Hey if the. Sec's watching this. And they give us a call and go. Hey can we have subscription to the entire thing and orchestrated by prevailing and watch everything from afar. That's possible you'll be both loved and hated the save brand new watchdog group. You know like. I was looking to be a whistle blower here as much as i can all right time and i wonder how many here about some of the more interesting things you guys have seen. okay one question. I is more interesting or more mundane day or that you guys. Is it more like because everybody says you know like you just said. The abt aren't necessarily blowing zero day on everybody. Right is it is is the adage that we've we've had any industry hold true that for the most part it's all commodity crap that you're getting whacked with because missing the you know the basics doug even worse it's it's living off the land you know that old term. I mean. it's oddly. Not even it's like it's tools like it's cobalt strike is shown up again to the trick. Pot stuff right. Like how long are we going to deal with this Go just got released to go. Saw that like allegedly. Yeah i heard couple with a week ago or something. Yeah so great question. it's a little bit of both. i think. I think what's most shocking is the fact that maller that probably i thought was extinct is totally alive and well lovely. We kick this thing off. I win just in the. Mvp of the product back in in late two thousand seventeen early eighteen. I had old historical stuff. I knew about from research and also i guess i could just start there and if i get a trickle right of few eggs that are still you know machines running the forgotten about whatever i assume there would be something to look at. It crashed the little easy to think that i had running. Initially right because any domain. Ls romney. this is something that i think circuit. Eleven or something. Maybe yeah any absolutely fine and then believe it or not win. The whole thing kicked off. We have a couple of theories around this. This might be interesting. That's how you guys it exploded in. This is again romney. This is something that now. it's funny about wrong. It is that it's it's a silly old. Our people laugh at it. I do too because it's so old but that stuff was built like solidly. It was like a model t back then right because this thing this thing can live on the master boot record of a machine which does do much anymore. That's just not bashing but that's a pretty resilient and you know strong way to maintain persistence in something. So we watch these things come online and the theory we have is that with the whole crazy. Covid mass and work from home. People started to handle ops left and right that were probably in cold storage and they probably weren't acted and they're all and they probably just handed him over to these people. They went home. They turn them on and blocked. There is remnant first millions of windows. Xp machines back to life. So that's one really interesting released semi mundane but kind of shocking story right because it's like geez that's still alive. You know harder does it. Does that make it harder to attribute the organization that that's part of though because with everybody working from home you're not coming from an organization's ip address unless they're vpn eq through. That's a good point right now. It is it is hard and their vpn inning. We're still seeing the x. Phil come from the org obviously right but what's really terrifying and that's actually perfect segue to what we did see. We saw that. That wasn't a new attack surface for the adversary that they loved right because they could use the vpn as a hypodermic needle into the org. They literally use it to their advantage. It was perfect for them because they could just go infect an xbox somewhere and then bouncing to a corporate laptop off ago right so we were seeing a bunch of comcast. Id's or whatever you know not. Gum resident told ranks gas explosion out of these organs. That were otherwise totally. You know getting compromised by these home but it's still happening at hasn't slowed down and all the other stuff that's probably pretty scary Was this convergence of what looks like crimewave groups that are you know syndicating their leasing their plumbing is i. Call it right That's come back into fashion again. So these huge and operators are leveraging their access to these ransomware groups. What i was mentioned about. Yeah exactly one one. That i know. We're running out of time but this is a good one. It looks like we stumbled across this like very very common trifecta attack which is and it was heavily russian in origin they would come in and they would infect with initial trojan they would harvest. Pi it t As best they could find it. Then they'd moved crypto mining when the cryptocurrency markets were high right so they could make some good money while the the numbers were good. The minute crypto market would debt. They would shift tdp's to ransomware and then go to a third stage of the whole thing of like ransack and leave. So they do this like three-stage effort harvest while line and then ransom and it's it seems to be consistently happening over and over again now. So that was pretty shocking. That is that's man. That's innovation in in bad guys. I hate it but good. What is what is the. What is the craziest thing you've seen in terms of some of the some of the exotic stuff out there. I mean this is a good example. But one while it's funny watching the experiments or funny. No i got i got one for you. This is this'll probably be the funniest. My favorite part in this goes back to like good good old school intel gathering heritage which is at some point or other in history. They're gonna make that mistake right. And they'll just not think about op sec. What's they'll think about object wants. They're successful right now. Start like glaring up and proxy and vpn everywhere and everything else in fresh bbn for your call. Wave remains anything. The coolest thing. I think we ever did was we are able to irritates will call that leave it leave it at that the dns infrastructure of this group to where we got them to log in and see what was wrong and we got them at a moment where i guess they just were lazy and they came in from their own. Ip able to find the physical location of the actual actor in this case and didn't match any id's for the last year that we were watching them but it did match one. Id from the inception of the infrastructure that we saw. We finally got him blink a year later between the in the beginning of the end. So we're able to really attribute it back to the same same group or same indicator and so that was pretty killer. Because we've now had and then we were able to unravel other infrastructure that was laden and it was everywhere and so we handle space that we in and And the experiment just to leave. Leave that we're all kinds of things they were using walled garden environments like twitter and slack and they're using emmer dns which is like a blockchain the tool to see if they could like hide their Dns communications all the usual stuff tour. That's all kind of had. I feel like that example is sort of like that. We saw this on a reported a couple of years ago where you had a terrorist cell and they were. They were communicating covertly and using encryption. Ed that one guy decides that he's going to get on twitter. Forgets turn off vocation suddenly inbound way. Dull it is. That's it that's exactly right. Yeah well we'll talk. Well we will. And i talk a lot about the parallels between what they were seeing net witness and what we see today prevailed and it was amazing. Parallels that would that's a that was an oregon. Right yeah so that's also you guys get. That's that's solving some really cool. That's really cool like problems. Because i think it's really easy to dakota a recent television commercials go knows blind to your own organization right as long as probably dusted physically like blow up or hurt you in some way or decrease your productivity or whatever you're going to go it's like i i'm not gonna i'm not seeing because there's a lot of to great security two layered upon layered upon layered and like using encrypted. Dns like okay. Well yeah right it's No doubt and i mean. I know this words overused now especially unfortunately but when we started the whole idea of figuring. Epidemiology of malware was slammed. Right i'm kind of reluctant to use that term now because it was like. Oh you're just riding on that epidemic. It's like well. I kind of started this before. There was ever covid uttered but yeah it is interesting because we can see the proliferation and island hopping malware from one order to another. It's pretty scary. I mean it really stuff built to laterally move like that and so it's all right i. It's it's amazing an elite at this. But i think it's amazing that i think most of us that aren't that don't live at everyday like you at will struggle to understand quite sophistication and the capabilities. Bill dentist some of this. Because last time i disassembled. Malware i use disassembled. Was i dunno to two thousand three right when he could pull the heck senator or or you know look at perl script and see what it was doing. This is not bad anymore. There's sophisticated stuff out there that rivals some of the the good guy code down. Yeah yeah you're right you're right and what's worse is they're using good guy code like that's the worst part. There are differentiate between. We'll looks like conventional tool that is meant to be used by an administrator versus it being used by an hour this now gained privileged to do so right so pretty bad. All right so still forbade it's p. r. e. v. I l i o n i. Did you get that name so funny story. So that was a domain. I bought like a thousand years ago. I think i bought it in early. Two thousands for something completely different. I'm trying to read what it was four. And when i started the project in seventeen i just went to my list because i was like i need to get you know when you when you think about getting started these days getting a decent domain and all. That's pretty tough right. You gotta figure out what you're going to call your company and i was running through the lesson. I'm like you know. That's kind of cool. Because i had this like mantra of helping organizations prevail yellow and long haul app like serendipitous lee saw the domain adds time ago like perfect. That's it and believe it or not. It was in the making from like nine hundred ninety nine. I bought the domain or something. And so i got. I was able to spin off that. And it's just it's been awesome. It's been a perfect term for it. for all product lines that we keep coming out with it. It keeps resonating really well. I wish you guys continued growth. Does that sounds like a man that sounds like some fun work for job to have like. Oh what do you do that up on bad guys. It's awesome. i mean you know. It's kind of cool. Because the net net of this is we actually make this more painful and expensive for them to do so. We make them have to deal with the same problem. We all do. Which is their ops. Cast to be pretty decent to avoid us so we'll talk a little bit heartache. There and make it more expensive which is probably the ultimate solution. More the minute it becomes too expensive to do. They'll stop well. Yeah i mean that's the ultimate that's the ultimate idea right. We're never gonna we're never gonna make bad people. Stop doing bad things but maybe we can make it so expensive that we can. We can take out some of the meggett. Have the do something force them to do something to go back to physical world. I don't know maybe right right. Exactly it's too lucrative. Yeah great point all right criminality. Thank you sir. That was that was kinda fun. Fun conversation james anything else. You want to arm in essence definitely go check out right because i mean it's it's interesting you don't know something like this even exists and You know now you wanna learn more about it for sure. Yeah i i you guys should have like a like a like a portal. Somebody can just log into hope ahead as mike actually being considered believer. Yeah you're like all right. What do we share right. How much would redact right there. Because it could get pretty crazy pretty quick but yeah absolutely possible. A freemium model like i as is free. I'll tell you seventy compromised assets. Here's the i still eat glass. You get results member really getting free now but we actually do have a freemium model at the moment which companies can come get their own telemetry for free so we removed the hall like extorted ambulance chasing a completely. We're like you are the company with the problem. You're welcome to get an account for yourself together for free. We're not trying to charge people for their own problems. Which is kinda help. okay. I'm gonna go check off out. You're listening. I recommend you check this out. 'cause you may be surprised if the how awesome your security is not or you may not surprised at all. Frankly all right cool. Thanks so much for hanging out with us. How do people get a hold of you. Want to ask questions or follow a conversation. Yeah website prevailing dot com again. That's p. r. e. pri a. I l. i. o. n. dot com. And that's the best means to get a hold of me. certainly We do have that the means to get a free county. I mentioned just at the very end and that does help you kind of figure out what you might be dealing with yourself But yeah we'll we'll we'll keep doing some pretty heavy marketing here in the next little while series. Thanks disclose so stay tuned. Well i i wish you guys have lots of luck is this is this is. This is pretty cool. I think There's certainly market for it and Mad that is That is of exciting stuff. All right folks. thanks for listening. This has been yet another edition of the down. The security rabbit hole podcast. I know i learned a lot and hopefully You guys go check out Pavilions wears on on your own or again. I wish that you find nothing. I suspect i'm going to be wrong. Crossed fingers crossed on that note. Thanks for listening. We'll catch you guys another time. Another place down the security radical podcast giant. Baid out on another down. The security ribbon whole episode. We'd like to encourage you to chat with our hosts and guests using twitter hashtag s. Please check out the show notes. Catch up on an episode of missed and subscribes. Don't miss a episode. Our website is white. Rabbit dot net w eight one two three r. a. v. i t. dot net so on behalf of raw. James good bucks. We'll see you soon on another down. The security casts.

intel sir sir jimmy times Ian james benazir Martha underscore acme widget corp karina Josie cardiac heartbeat unc abercrombie group saudi abt kirk prem Ian wanna johnny
AELF 101 w/ COO Chen Zhuling


50:22 min | 2 years ago

AELF 101 w/ COO Chen Zhuling

"Hi, everyone. Just a reminder that this show is not legal advice. Trading advice, financial advice or personalise. Enjoy the show. And thank you very much. This show is sponsored by liquid dot com. Be the change and also by crypto wanna ones Chinese guide to crypto currency pick. It up November first wherever you buy your e books or paperbacks. You're welcome back to crypto when a one the average consumer's guide to crypto currency this Matthew Aaron and today, we're sitting with the c o of elf mR Chun juuling to give us an Alf one. Oh, one in with the elephant one. He was very kind enough to give us a one on one on a lot of different aspects of Alf to let us know more about boxing and blockchain technology. So we're going to go through parallel processing side chains main chains colonels and nodes. So sit back relax and listen to out four no one and a lot of good one topics and information about the tech. But before we get into that conversation as always please go to crypto one on one podcast dot com. There you can find our IT tunes link. Please go to I tunes rate us. Subscribe and leave us a comment. Also, you can follow us on our social media's our Facebook, Twitter and our Instagram there. You could be part of the conversation or just hang out to know what's going on in the crypto wanna win land. Also, if you ever want to get a hold of us, you can DM us on Twitter or can goes. Does the contact on our website and send us an Email now? Without further ado, here's Mr. juuling with elf wanna one with a little bit of blockchain one one sprinkled into it. We'll see you after the show. Mr. ton juuling C O in co founder of elf. Welcome to crypto when one. Hi, Matthew, all audience of creek to while one. Thank you very much. I'm very few on radio honored to be at this show today. Oh, right hand, man. You don't have to feel honored. But we're very happy to have you here. No, indeed. Yeah. The first time that I got interviewed by someone who leaving in Taiwan. Oh, right. Excellent. Man. Where are you right now? I mean Singapore. Oh, cool. Are you from Singapore, some originally from China, but after leaving Singapore for over ten years? So this is kind of my second home for for quite a while. Oh, right on right on what part of China. Are you from southwestern part costs the train? Okay. You should I tell people where you know, you get like spite really spicy food, and you always want to leave a life as as Pender Disney. I never managed to do that. That's my inspiration. Right. And they've been the Chung do a couple of times. And I've lived in Shanghai in Beijing for about twelve to thirteen years. Okay. So I actually did my graduation trip to Taiwan lovely lovely country. I really liked it right on right on. Well, if you ever come by you have to hit me up, and we can go out and have some Taiwanese food or we could find a Sichuan food restaurant. Absolutely. But we're not here to talk about China or food today. But we are here to do is talk about elf in what we want to do today is talk about well I little bit about yourself. Get to know a little bit more about yourself. And then we want to go into L one, no one. And I want to talk about how the business start maybe a little bit about the name. And then I want to go into what else is doing is doing some things with I think a couple of topics. We haven't had on the show before and that is called computing side, change colonels, and parallel processing, so I'm very excited to go into a lot of one on ones on some technicals. And learn about new company. What do you think? Mr. Julian does sounds like a fantastic idea. Alfie self provides the food sweet. Of new design to blockchain. That's why it's very hard to have like, wow. Or two sentences to explain it. That's why I think it's really important an awesome very willing to share some time to talk about. Okay. What exactly our chime are we doing and what things were solving in this space? Will I'm excited so first let's learn a little bit about yourself. Who are you, sir? Sure. I'm more originally from China from Saddam province now leaving Singapore. So how I started is basically I went to see her for my university under a government scholarship that was quite a while ago. So I have spend all my lifetime, mostly engineering and science. Yes. So that's where I finished my bachelor degrees. Then I moved to U S to get my master degrees. At MIT, always a strong believer in terms of technology moving forward, the humane society, a Wayne just anything is that right after graduation. I actually get onto the busy. Side. So I joined while the leading strategy consulting firm as a consultant. So I traveled around southeast Asia, advising governments and also large corporates on certain strategy, topics. Things could be a how to improve a country's financial system or it could be okay. How do we improve searching aspects of telecommunications systems? So I spent almost five years in that space looking at different emerging markets. Again, technology always come onto the table as while the options when we are trying to do something bowed and a revolutionary. So that engineering thinking always came back to me. I'm asking myself. You know, okay, I'm going to be consulted for the rest of my life. Or should I do something in the technology space? That's fly at the end of two thousand sixteen. I start to spend more time into blockchain technol-. And the creature space 'cause I have some friends who has seen in this space for quite a while. So that's where I started new cat to realize the potential of blockchain housing steel fairness how to institute transparency how to redefine, you know, as a society help people do things and get rewarded, so it's a very interesting combination of taking -nology and also collaboration among human beings. So I I get very convinced that this is a space. I really wanna be and I start to see these will go way beyond crypto currency, probably go into every different aspects of business because business is about human and human interaction. It's about reward and giving as about how to collaborate are fair and transparent basis. So all of those things taking and then I started talk to people because I realized that okay? The Karen systems. Is perfect for cryptocurrency. It's secure. But okay. The scale ability side of the speed is still a lot of limitation. That's like companies always are taking a back from a using it. So last year, why was in China? I met my co-founder Hubble some fun facts about him. So he doesn't talk much, and he doesn't speak English. Well, however, he is the in the crypt of space ever since two thousand thirteen as a developer. So he has built a Cup of things in a crucial adamant s- in this space. So he has down payment system, and he has also build a exchange which is still up Romney in Canada. Yeah. So we're talking about. Okay. So what other things meeting this space, and we think while the fundamental needs is to build a blockchain platform that is fast enough, and that is also flexible enough to to to few the different business. Requirements. So that's why August last year. We actually posted are what we issued our white paper on keyed hub. Oh by then it was under a different name. It's called greet GR ID because we use this name to resonate to resemble in the multi chance structure that we're using it looks like a grid. Yeah. But then the funny thing is during that time there was another project on US called, greedy. Plus, they came the moved out and moved on faster than us. He had jeans. Yeah. If the energy project, so a number one, we are not a energy project. And we also don't not associated with that her -ception of back porject. We wanna be more unique. Then we sat down and say, okay, we got a chance they may wash it. So both of us are gamers. I'm a pretty hard core stock RAF player. He's more of a warcraft guy. Yeah. So for me, I'm taking few names from stock robbed. And he's taken from warcraft seems like warcraft gets more popularity in the road. And you know, some of the names are probably easier to understand. Yeah. In the end, we say, okay. Yeah. We like the l the elf race. Yep. Why don't we just use? That is he added a little bitter twist because he could be ousted by o rugs. No, no. Let's make patient. You know? Okay. Let's look into the dictionary. What's the ancient way of spelling out of this is the way? Yeah. Having according to him. So that's that's why we use the F A N E supposed to be linked together yet. But just for simplicity than we split up. I mean, also kind of give us an advantage because in terms of alphabet you order a candle stands out, right? Absolutely top brand lists. Yep. Yep. That's also whatever we're trying to achieve its hi how many people like put a their hobbies as their names of the company, and or Khyber and L. Exactly. Yeah. Yes. They come out that gets out law is a very good friend of mine. Yeah. Okay. Thanks. Oh, yeah. That's right. He's also Singapore. He was on the show to it. In fact, we are office are in the same building. I enjoyed talking with him in which at every so often said David is also in the same building. So you'd think but we have this creek to help which is like one single beauty quite a number of projects are or in innocent building. So it's easy to foster talk to each other as it's easy for people to find you then pitch you. I have a personal question. And I hope this isn't weird. But the things that you said that you like about blockchain you said transparency freedom, how do those juxtaposed with say people's idea of China mainland? You said you lived in Singapore for the past ten years. How does that juxtaposed with China mainland, and they're perceived control of say blockchain the internet and communications and the fundamental. I guess driving force behind blockchain technology in new ways to think about companies. It's a it's a two way interaction right in every single country. You have a top down ideology and also kind of like a movement. But also have a bottom up. I think right now China is to add a stage that the host society is trying to figure out, you know, what's the best interaction of these two forces. I mean, we we still see a very prominent in a row of the government in the society, but internet itself as we could see at least in the past ten years. I do think that it liberates information in China. Maybe not to the extent that a compared to other countries, but at least information flows much faster, and at least all those borderless in this case, I agree. Also, you know, we we also start to see our Chinese Internet companies going overseas also trying to find how to define their own values in the global stage. I think he's still is still luxury and a lot of struggles in the long run. I see this as a very good term. You know, we're getting inflammation and full blockchain is going to be catching the values of borderless and more interactions of across multiple countries. Right. Right. So before we start talking about elf. What I wanna do is. I want to define a couple terms. Give a one on one on a couple of different aspects of what else is trying to do. In. Those terms are parallel computing, parallel processing, cloud computing side chains colonels and multi chain. So if we could just go through the list in maybe one or two minutes, see if we can do a one on one in each of those definitions. What do you think that sounds like a plan? Matt cool, then let's start with parallel computing parallel. Processing would is it. Okay. A simple example is that remember back in maybe like nine hundred ninety s when we use computer. There is a single core computer yet. So what he does. Is that? Okay. It does all the transactions one by one. This is kind of similar to what blockchain is doing the right now, you know, all the transactions has to be in a Q, and they will be processed one by one and same as computer. Now, we have moved to multi core that means that actually you could process transactions imperil. This is why we're trying to achieve you blockchain as well. As has transactions are independent from each other. We don't see any reasons why they should not be processed impoundment. These will Kinley increase the process speed. Now, can you have a double spend? If you're doing it in parallel Akkad that may happen. If those two transactions are dependent from each other, for example, if I only have two daughters, but I made to transactions one two dollars to you at another two dollars to Sarah. So if these. Who are processing parallel that we have a problem. That's why the the key thing here is about detecting the transaction dependency and only put the independent ones being processed in parallel. Never use any related transactions processed at the same time right on what is cloud computing in. Could you do a just a brief one a one on? What is decentralized, cloud computing and unabashed ching network ship? Okay. I'm gonna take computer against example. You know, traditionally companies I start with using their own servers. So they deployed their own computers. But then okay nowadays, the new trend is to move towards a third party provider. That action has many more computers and some of computers specialize in data storage, some specialize in computation and other tasks so in blockchain right now. The most popular consonant says is that okay? Every Cedo computer has to do exactly the same tasks this breathing a lot security. However, this also brings in a lot of efficiency because a lot of reputation reputation and also redundancy of t in terms of the work they need to do. So this makes blockchain blockchain systems slow. So what are we believing is number one that notes should be specialized? That's why we chose we elect in those that will perform the tasks and within each node we move away from traditional one single computer as a node we actually assess. A group of computers as a note so these computers some of them will specialize in data storage somewhere specialize in computation. So the benefit of this is number one. This is already faster thousand your computer and number two. If there is any connec in certain of the tasks we can always add do computers to scale up the note. Yes, this is very similar to. So every single node you could consider is like a Amazon cloud or as you're of service. So if you wanna do this decentralized way, basically, you don't just use one of these cloud provider to perform everything you use like multiple once and they will always cross check with each other. So that you don't rely on a C a single party and the risk of the host system down is much lower. Because if one node is down than the other node can continue the. Ask right on. There's something else that Elvis does that we also need to do a one to one on is multi chain side chains what is multi chain in what is a side chain. So if you look at like bitcoin at ethereal, so what they do is they have one single blockchain so average transaction or the status they have storage, all the smart contracts. It's hosted on one single chain. This is fine for bitcoin. Because bitcoin only does one thing. It's a decentralized p payments system, however, for assistant that wants to support smart contracts. So that means, you know, any kind of solution of any kind of programs you can be wrong on that system. So we forsee thousands of smart contracts will take place in the future right that if you put all of those one thousand smart contracts on one blockchain he comes with a few problems number one. He gets really crowded and. That one blockchain is not capable of supporting all those smart contracts and number two if I am one of the developers Trump of a smart contract. I have to pray that no other smart contract is blocking the blockchain because if another guy is getting popular this blockchain cannot support my transactions at all this is what happened for a crypto Keady at the beginning of this year. Basically wouldn't Kripke gets really popular a lot of transactions new other smart contracts on theorem could perform the tasks during that time. That's why while the ideas is that. Okay. Do we just need to rely on one single launching? Why don't we just make multiple and argue multiple chain could make things faster because basically you replicate the blockchain, and so the speed also gets multiplied and the other thing is that if we put. Different smart contracts on different chains, then they kind of have their own space, and they do not interfere with each other. So this is similar light. Basically you expand a highway from a single lane to multi lane. Some of the lanes you allow motorbikes some of the lands you allow trucks and some of the lines allow cars so that that's the idea of multi chain structure right on right on. So the reason why I asked all those questions is because all those ideas are in Alf. Now, if we could what is what is it aim to do how are these definitions or these ideas that we just to find integrated into will we believe app is the next generation of public blockchain that is, customizable and also high performance for Barry space misuse the. We're seeing a future basically of any industries is going to have certain. Tasks performed on blockchain depending on their needs. That's why we do onto have industry specific chains rounding on top of health. So we'll have some of the chains supporting banking another chain supporting me and another chain may be supporting data storage and so on. So that's why we introduce the mouth kitchen structure to facilitate the various business usage in the future to allow them to customize their own chains. And also to allow them to have a good skit ability in the host system, and in order to support these more complicated and more comprehensive architecture are note side, we bring in the decentralized, cloud computing, so we enable each of our node to expand from one single computer to a group of computers. So that makes each of the note, much more powerful. So that. That is capable of supporting if transactions gets higher higher in the future, we could simply just expand our notes to support that needs. So you mentioned your nose, and you mentioned actually there's two things that came out of that that I really want to go into. I is who's your target audience for L who's your target. Consumer. Is it the average person? Or is it the company in if it is the average person how can the average person us L in? If it's not how can the average company is and what size of company are you trying to engage with to put them into your system. That's that's a very good question. So for us. Our target is basically startups and also large companies because what happens right now is that? When those guys are every time, they want the right smart contract, and they want to perform certain tasks right now, they're facing a lot of scale ability issue, and also customization issue. So that's why on elf. But see we want them to have their own freedom of. Performance and also because of this more powerful note, so they're smart contracts could have a much better performance. So the users will make it will feel much easier to use our system Blockchain's, very new industry. So it's it's quite hard for us to predate who whether the change will I start from the start ups or whether they this is gonna I start from the traditional at large pulp rates were not sure about that. But what we're focusing on? Is that okay where beauty a fast and capable on production system. So that everyone could try it on just like how people are trying new things on top of Ethiopian right now. So this is say there's a startup, and you really we don't know which way it's going to go like, you just said, it could be, you know, Beja companies adopting elf or it could be startup. How would you feel that they're going to use it? What would be saying? Hey, you know, what I'm a company, and I'm going to do this without what are some of the use cases that you can you can. See a rolling out in these startups. Just you know, a few ideas to share with with you. So number one financial services has a lot of could use cases on top of blockchain. So let's say, you know, if a remittance company that always need to do a lot of clearings of different currencies. They could actually use elf asked that cleary mechanism because I'm blockchain everything can be set code seem on tenuously at a much. Also, this is much cheaper. So careering end settlement could be done on elf, and here comes okay if startup that wants to do this on top of health, or whether this is a large company that's wants to do this on out. It's quite different if he's a startup the probably predict the initial transaction is quite low. So probably the do not want to have their own side chain at the very beginning on on top of out. Because now means they need. To run their own notes, and that's expensive. So what they could do is they could leverage on all the existing minors on the main chain so that to emerge mining and that should be originally sufficient supported their initial traffic. So that's cheaper for them to Ron and only when they get a high volume in the future they could start to have their own side chain with their own notes. Athlons coverage is quite different because probably already have existing customers. And they do want to have more control and privacy of their environment. Therefore, they will come into elf. Just take our alpha side chain template make you their own. So that they have their own notes running and they have their own side chain. So that chain they could customize it as their wish and this will be linked with the elp system. So that they can also talk to other side chains the applications on top of l. That's a very flexible in that case. Yep. So besides settlement. We also foresee no some gaming companies grew start build games on top of elf. And also insurance companies should be very interesting 'cause you know, pull the claiming old insurance underwriter, those are basically contracts and all those things could be done in the form of a smart contract of alpha system. And now a word from our sponsor liquid dot com. Liquid dot com. Crippled currency trading platform with dozens of listed cripples in multiple. Fiat pairs such as Japanese yen US dollars, Australian dollars Singapore dollars euros, Hong Kong dollars in more on the surface liquid is a regulation friendly exchange with a serious focused on security, the quality and user experience. 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Go to show nose cook my referral link and get ten dollars added to your count afternoon trade one hundred bucks. Now back to the show. So basically, a company this assay startup, and I'm just trying to see the path of maybe it started. We'll take so a startup. My name is Matthew in Matthew's gonna have Matthew Inc. In Matthew is going to do let's say remittances like you said, and we're going to have the company is gonna make a their own app. Let's say an app or adapt, or what have you, and it's already going to have from my server going to have its own log ins, and u I u x in then we're gonna go in migrate until obliging. Elf is that blockchain. So basically elephant is the executioner of smart contracts. The if then statements allowing my remains to go through, however, the person who built on the blockchain has full control over their business. Is that correct? That's correct. Yep. If they run their own side chain. Yup. Using the on the technology. Yep. Now when it comes to the service in the nodes who where are the knows because we say decentralized cloud serving when we say decentralized, we always think of like, you know, not having it in say, Google or Amazon or Facebook so data is distributed. So it's not in one central place for essential attacks where or abuse by a central company, but it seems as though that these nodes are going to be either controlled by the company or by the companies that are building the absent adapts is this correct? That say the multi noser decentralized nodes are going to be owned by elf or owned by these companies or can somebody say with a mind with a minor or a laptop run full nodes of sightings or offs chain allocate. Yeah, when we talk about the key miners out where referring to the miners to the main chain because the main chain is the crucial part that allows the different side chains to talk to each other. And most of the time companies will I do rely on the mainstream Niners before. Oh, they start to their own notes. When we talk about are. They are they out computers of nodes or they average people like they won't be owned by health. So what what's going to happen? Is that okay? We will allow all the token holders to run for the election of becoming those notes. You know, there could be a a group of token holders. Like average people they decided to foam up their own note that run that has a group of computers. Could you just follow a open source cloud architecture, or there could be some companies that specialize in providing cloud computing and the also agrees on the vision than they joined this election. So what's going to happen is that each of the is gonna teach to the to the society and ended the day that year one seventeen notes will be elected by down the token holder voting's and each year. What the heck ha we? Will add two more notes into the system. So you'll be seventeen nineteen twenty one and gets more and more because that's how we see them. The the system gets more mature. And also we want to add a more decentralisation into the system. Those knows will not be owned by off those will be elected among the society is this a proof of work proof of stake. Or is it a hybrid master note system? So it's a dedicated proof of stake. Yeah. That's why we need to run a voting. And also this space down the state in the system. So there is actually room for manipulation in this isn't there? So if somebody has a lot of tokens or coins or you'd like you said a company with us cloud cloud server, I don't know what they're called for her where hells whatever in they have a controlling as a controlling stake in it health. They can not only control the network, but also manipulate the network as well is that true. It is. I mean, theoretically, okay. If there is one single party that I really, you know, sees other is a huge potential yelp. And they want to buy a lot of tokens the could have the power to manipulate it. This is the same as if no proof of work. If somebody owns a lot of hash powers, they could also theoretically endanger the host system, however that is not to their best interest. Because if they. Mandated the system than probably the value of the network also goes down. So whatever tokens he holds is also gets less valuable in this case, let's say if a Google this because they're a big company they have money, but as they go Google says, you know, what we're not building our own blockchain. But this elf looks dope. We're gonna to get on elf. And this the, you know by fifty four percent of all the all the tokens all the other coins that are there, and they are running the biggest server with this. They can fifty one percent doubles pen. They can manipulate everybody. What about the side chains are the side chains vulnerable to the wills of Google? Let's say org Incan Google just kick them out if a company starts using this. And let's say the massive option of elf becomes, you know, very prominent in a lot of companies are there any one company just grows really fast with elf in the actually become, you know. A majority. Listen, we'll call it a steak or what threats do they have to the other companies that are running side chains. Okay. Number one. I do believe that. Okay. If he gets really attractive there should be. There won't be just one single company will be interested to become your note. So the competition will definitely comes in. Actually when you get one. We'll popular the risk of centralization or at one singles group gets too big. It's it's less usual. What we are worried about is actually more at the very beginning. You know, when the value of the network is still small, so it's more prone to too many relation and attack. Yeah. That's why I the very beginning. Our fundation also will observe the whole process and making sure that okay new is mandating the system yet. So if let's say a situation where one node is is is too big. Or maybe like one guy owns one fifty percent of all the notes yet said the risk. There is a risk. And for the side chains of the risks. Basically are when they want to do work across chain with other side chains they have to rely on the main chain said that a main may do some any relation for that. Or they can block them out couldn't they. Say you know, what I'm busy? Yeah. Yeah. I yet. I mean that happened in the that happened in the bitcoin miners in the past as well. Right. But he did is just block certain transactions. They don't like say if you the transactions are expensive, they're taking risks or expensive ones that people are just trying to pay for ten cents, you know, in bitcoin with the twenty thousand they're like, hey, those gotta wait. That's why is back win. Yep. Yep. Is there is there any protection against that? And also that's a good point that you brought up and I'm sorry that I'm going really far into this whole ownership aspect because I think that this is a very interesting case that might come up. I what about late mergers. Mergers in say acquisitions of chains, you could actually they have like different majority stake holders in the in the chain in his merged become the majority, and that's or a minority. I'm sorry majority. Could have lots of like lately slice it up like a salami. Right. They could salami in put slices into the chain own all kinds of bits without anybody. Knowing. Thing and then merge them and to become the majority holder. Is there any safeties or precautions thought about to prevent say that like a hostile takeover? That's very progression. That's why we're working on the government than site. So you're talking about two side chains that the merged with each other. You know, like, this is say, they I find value in elf, I know Elvis, working hard, and I know that they're going to land some big contracts. You know, what the best thing I do is hedging my bet in making making my company's unhealth, and I know that they're under like say of one umbrella company, and then eventually just merge, it take over the whole the whole blockchain, isn't that? A possibility kind of like shareholders do or merging companies. I company company b and then they just, you know, take over or reverse merger into the United States or. Yeah. I mean from from a stake on of you. Yes. It could happen include having for two is wrong. Why is for for good way is basically? That okay. If two side chains thing that it's too expensive to run out to Indiana on L, then they merged. They share the same of the the increase the number of notes on there for for their side. So you actually increase the security for both of them the other way is that. Okay. For more hostile way. They come by other tokens and maybe to get out of state. So they want you influence the whole network. I mean, just based on the the governance that we have or the economic system we have right now. I mean, we we have to respect people's assets and people's tokens. So yeah, in this case is he's a very challenging very difficult part. But you know, as as we make sure that the whole community sees the value of elf is being decentralized would be being decentralized and being secure. So if this kind of things happens, we really think, you know, those guys will lose more because actually come people will will slow. Down adopting it there could be a fork actually in this case right on right on how did elf get an eighty million dollar market cap? I'm sorry because I didn't look into the fundraising. Was it ICO V C and right now, it's eighty million dollars. It's in the top eighty of cryptocurrencies or digital assets that are on the market right now. That's quite impressive. How did elf become that in such a short time? So we didn't do a public show. We only did a private token, sell because you know, for our system we are talking to you very ambitious goal is to facilitate a business using us small and large businesses. Yeah. That's why we think it's very important that we get our initial investors with a lot of resources, meaning that, you know, either they are very deeping batted in in the crypto space or these other ones that can bring us with a businesses we raised twenty five million at last year. Yeah. I think you know, during the along the way for the. Eight hundred ten months now. Number one. Is that okay? Our tech development is very steady. I think are are updates is probably while the most active wines amount other projects we are. And also because we're building something like brand new so people do see the value of. Okay, why we're doing multi mortgaging? Why we're doing a cluster notes in? We're doing this for reason came for flexibility for performance, and it's it's not a it's not an easy job. Because this is a brand new architecture where we're writing all the codes from scratch, so we're not leveraging any other projects coats. So I think you know, all that was put into this project are seen by the community. We also have a pretty active community as well. So I think all those factors combined gave us a quite good. Mark cab to reflect all the efforts right on right on before we go into general questions. Is there anything else that you want to make sure that everybody knows about elf? I think one thing is that. I mean is very interesting system, you know, because we're using multi chamber music master nodes. So that's why it's it's kind of solving a few problems at the same time. That's why it's not like, okay. We can have one word to describe it for your number Scharping, always say, okay, just off chain of chain often transactions. But we do believe, you know, what this car market needs is a suite of solutions. So that developers spirit painless painful to develop smart contracts users periods, very smooth to use it as well. That's why you know, we do encourage people to to look more into health right on right on. I guess I'm the general question, sir. Okay. Would you respect or look up to in the crypto space? If someone person is going to tweet or write a blog or go on the news or a talk show who's somebody that you would make. Take time in your day to read or listen to I think I got a couple of quite a few guys that I really like to hear their thoughts. You know from the tech side. I think it'd be tally is a really good guy. Inspiring guy, you know, I'm he leads ethereal to cry big success. The other guy of follow quite a lot is Ceesay out the CEO of Binz because he's more of a practical and down to earth guy. Sometimes he note, he understands, you know, you make like hard decisions or sometimes, you know, instead of just discussing ideology. Okay. Get something done see the results. Learn from it and move on. You know, I I think that's that's quite different sometimes from a technical point of view people strict eighty focusing on the ideology, maybe sometimes too much, but without making real actions. The other guy I like to speak. A lot is our personality is a micro Arrington. So he's the founder of tech crunch. Very vocal outspoken guy in creek to space. I'm very active as well. He's also adviser to L. He's been helping us a lot. Are you on Twitter? Yes. I am on do you who do you follow on Twitter that you know, is entertaining. If there's an entertainer in the cryptos base who was the person that you follow his or anybody like crypto dog or. You don't have to have an answer for that one at note to. Something. Right. Like, no immediate guy names in my mind. What do you think will have the most impact in the future? I guess the question of this a little too general. I guess what? I'm trying to ask what this question is. There are many different ideas coming out of the space right now. I mean, while let's decentralized exchanges your project, and but what project do you think? Or what use case, do you think is like this one is definitely gonna kill it. Besides health. This one's gonna kill it. I think in general what thinks important is number one would need a lot of developers tools to make it easy for people to develop to build things on number two is that we also need we need the mass to embrace blockchain so one it's probably more later on leaning towards the regulation side to make people feel that it's not a something Slav scan to change people's perception is also very important. But that that definitely go that goes beyond blockchain system yourself. The third way is that we need a very successful. Use case, you know, a company that could demonstrate the value of blockchain securely to the to the public just like, you know, the Netscape for the internet is for the era. So that people have a very tangible feeding of oh, this is internet. Oh, this is blockchain. I think that that that's really important. Yeah. That's a good one. So you don't think there's any of those companies out there right now, there's no Netscape of blockchain yet. I am look curious to see the results. Yeah. And see what exactly happened? I don't have a cure view on that. Cooped? It went to one is position to be saying when the first stops for somebody getting into the crypto space. This could very well be one of the first interviews they listen to come into the space. What would you want the new person to know about getting into crypto currency blockchain digital assets and the future? Okay. I think the advice come from is that I think everybody should be open minded and not just looking at the surface of what other coupon talking about blockchain, but do some homework make your own judgment. Yeah. Because he no bitcoin starts at a very beginning. Basically, trusting no one grow safeguarding your own asset. So I would say right now it's trust. No was knowledge and safeguard your own judgment. That's why I'm trying to say to people right on you know, I had an Email just yesterday come in and one things that crypto one advocates about is that the black teens base is is emerging and growing at such a rapid pace that there are lots of jobs impossibilities for the average person to take their profession and transition into blockchain what? Would you be your recommendation or suggestion or advice to somebody that is not into blockchain? Maybe doesn't have a technical background and wants to start working for crypto companies. Yeah. Actually, I have quite a few interviews on this. You know, because as my view here is basically every blockchain company, traditionally is more tech driven. Probably you have like each person people in the tech side, the remaining people may be on the supporting role, but blockchain space is maturing up, and it's getting more like a typical startup. So that means okay. Various rows will open up, for example, even finance every company is gonna need a count accountant, you need a controller on the marketing side. Okay. You also need people who are who can wrong your social media, you need people who can do a community engagement you need graphic designers. So. Actually, all kinds of rose is gonna open up. I wouldn't say all projects are doing it that way, but at least for elf and a few other projects, I know that this is definitely ongoing. The person who gets sent me an Email the other day, he was a log cabin builder. I'm not joking about this. No, no. I'm looking at the Email, and I'm thinking about what how to reply and my replied, those guy would be I think that there are a lot of conferences. There are a lot of places that are for example, consensus consensus Singapore, and they do all kinds of booths and things like that maybe somebody like that could work for a consensus and make sure that all the booster constructed properly aligned properly organized properly for the people that are going to conference or maybe help build the stage or what have you? What would you do recommend somebody like him better? I think you you're more creative Di do I think that makes actually a lot of sense? I mean, the other option could be okay, he started do some burcin Dai's branded with blockchain companies could be Mr. ten juuling CEO of elf before last this last question, I want to say thank you very much for coming on crypto one. Thank you for your time in thank you for answering some of the hard questions that I was asking today about well merger. Mergers of of life teen in. Side chains and main chains and things like that. I appreciate that. I mean, honestly, I really enjoyed this conversation. I think you know, you are targeting, you know, very good level of knowledge. So that we could spread the word to a bigger crowd. I mean, the other thing here is that. Okay. If we only talk about the topics that we are all comfortable with where really not advancing where not pushing boundaries of industry. That's why know throw the tough questions to us. Sometimes I may not be able to answer. But I will keep it that at the back of her mind, you know, when we're exploring maybe one day, I could have a clear answer to you, your answers were very clear, but if you ever want to come back on the show, you're always welcome, sir. Okay. Thank you so much, man. What three songs would you like on the crypto one? Oh, one Spotify playlist. I hope he listened to music Spotify. Okay. Quite random. But this is just my personal preference. Perfect. So I listened to Amion them quite a lot we read I. Yeah. So I I love I love lose yourself from eight miles right on ready. I just that kind of you know, the energy, and you just reminds him, you know, in certain moment of your life that yet that that that feeling that. Okay. You gotta make something work. I think he blockchain that is definitely making me move forward. What else? We usually have people do three songs, and I do this because I like to show their personality. You know, like, nobody would have meant would imagine that. I would assume that Eminem probably isn't synonymous with with what people would price perception of you. And I think that this is interesting when you start getting the people's, you know, music habits because it tells you a little bit about about themselves a little bit maybe more vulnerable side. Like, nobody would know that Jim out of an Esa Carlton. I love in Carlton. Yeah. The otherwise, I think this is gonna be quite funny out slow. So the other one is. Is another rap son of its committee China by higher brothers. Yeah. It's probably the first Chinese rap Rapson that it's getting popularized in a western road. Because people traditionally don't think Chinese people up, but those guys actually manage to prove that, you know, also blockchain space know, sometimes started I keep on telling our team, you know. Okay. This is a great chance that you know, would push the east and west too clever even more even than the internet era, the science from meeting China about you know, made in China by the higher brothers. Right. Cool. Juuling? Thank you very much for coming on a one. And we hope to have you back soon to give us an update on elf. Sure. Absolutely. All right, polite. Thank you so much. Thank you very much for listening to this episode of crypto one on one. If you want to hear my personal thoughts on this project. Please go to the YouTube channel one to one with Matthew Aaron for our round up episodes usually posted two to three days after the release of this podcast in our next episode of crypto one one we have an icy one episode where Mr. Aaron Paul sits down with dusk. I'm excited. And as always before we go apogee crypto dot com. The best place for your real time. Prices if you like Quing market cap, check, them out and krypton, news dot com. A great place for your news was union future. Episodes of crypto one a one.

blockchain China Singapore Singapore US Twitter Google Matthew Aaron Matthew Facebook blockchain technol developer Elvis mR Chun juuling southeast Asia
Ep. 160:  What CISO's Need To Know About Risk Based Cyber Security

Task Force 7 Cyber Security Radio

48:55 min | 4 months ago

Ep. 160: What CISO's Need To Know About Risk Based Cyber Security

"The next hour will inform you on how cybersecurity is one of the most significant threats to our national security as well as the battle that cybersecurity experts are undergoing every day on your behalf to protect you your families and your data welcome to task force seven radio with your host. The president and ceo of task force seven radio and task force seven technologies. George rita's hello. Everyone episode number one sixty task four seven radio. The voice cybersecurity. I- mandy bonello pinch hitting for. George rita's i wanna emphasize it. All opinions expressed in the show on my own. My president pasa players on never disclosed any sensitive intelligence that republicans resulted my employment. And i'll never knowingly disclose any classified information related any truly clearances. I presently have in past with the united states government and nothing i say during the show should be construed as legal or financial advice while folks last week. George had the cto the chief. Technology officer for inquest drama media on the show to break down why email security is still a huge risk for most businesses what types of e mail attacks are prevalent today and how corporations can defend themselves against these resilient attacks amini also impacts the email technologies provided by microsoft and google which one of them have more effective email security in the projects and technologies the developed to fight the good fight against one of the biggest attack factors used by cyber organized criminals. Today all this much much last week's episode of task for seven radio don't sweat it. If you missed it folks you could find us everywhere on playbacks. That's why are we still talking about email. Security at last week's episode that's episode number one fifty nine task force seven psalm super pumped for tonight. We got another great guests return. Presto friend of mine will go back a long way. We the senior vice president of global intelligence at recorded future mr levi levi as senior vice president global in risk at recorded future where he leads. A continuous efforts amid measurably decrease operational risk for customers. I spent the past twenty years in both government and the private sector defending networks arresting international criminals and uncovering nations adversaries as bp cyber threat intelligence fidelity investments and has a special united states. Secret service los angeles electron of crimes task force which before recording recorded future he held senior information security leadership positions across technology financial services enterprises. And he's also a trusted risk advisor to fortune one hundred companies prolific speaker blogger columnists in recent author of the risk business. What seaso's need to know about risk based suk cybersecurity. It's my pleasure to bring back. Senior vice president of global intelligence ever recorded future. Mr levi gender levi. Welcome back task for seven radio brother. Thanks so much. Andy always a pleasure to be here man. We go way way way back fighting the mean digital streets of l. a. around the world together and mad so good to catch up with you. I gotta admit. I'm a little bummed. I did a little. You know search for my name in the book at didn't but will hold that for for another day there. There are a lot of people. There are a lot of people book but believe me it was. It was not an exhaustive list by any means. But look man i'm super pumped about the book I'm glad that you finally put something out is long overdue. You got such a great perspective and Glad you're here to share share with it. But i got asked like i know. I know you probably wrote most of the book. While you're in the air traveling around the world speaking in repin recording future but How did it come about in the first place. Will you mentioned it earlier. Andy you know you. And i obviously we met. I think fifteen years ago now something crazy back at secret service and back then you and i were really sort of at the very the very front of intelligence and the power in the value of intelligence in that brought to criminal investigations. And obviously you know you yourself have been a part of a ton of really important investigations for the service and you know intelligence made so much that happen and i think you know in la you know we. We were trying to really figure out how to do it properly. In the early days in it all makes sense. You know when when we were in we in the public sector it kind of all makes sense. And then i jumped to the private sector and when i was in the private sector it. It didn't take long before. I started to realize that the value proposition for intelligence was a little bit different and you know what businesses cared about and what the responsibility was you know. It was very different than the public sector. And the mission of companies and businesses. Obviously at the end of the day is to be profitable so the role intelligence plays. It's very different in as i of start to dig into this. I realized that there was a bigger problem around risk in that so many organizations The that i've personally been apart of had trouble understanding risk from cyber threats. They've had trouble understanding how to articulate how to measure how to communicate it and because of that there's a lot of different things unfortunately negative negative outcomes that sort of cascade from from that problem. So i've literally been thinking about this problem for the last five six years really ever since i joined recorded future and it's just sort of been a journey an evolution reading a different things that are out there and and really talking to lot of a cis owes like yourself in various industry verticals to really try and come up with a better model for how companies should be thinking about risk in specifically in the cyber domain. So we've had this topic a few times you on the show and we. We've talked about in the context of financial analytics in in. And there's been a huge push in the industry especially like the board of director level in those associations where you know the boards are now saying look. I need a better way to translate and understand communicate you know so they can absorb cyber in business context. So did you crack the code. Koby easy framework. I mean so you know you're a great person to talk to you about this because obviously you know you and i have been talking about this for years and there's different approaches to this and there's merit in each approach and every situation is different meaning you know the the board of directors there's different levels of i q. There's different levels of expectations. But i think at the heart of this. It is a valuable exercise to quantify risk. Even if you're not going to take the the the details and the nuance into the board even for yourself just running security program you know to understand. Better where the risk ashley lies i think becomes a very powerful very powerful story to tell at the board level. And obviously you need to sort of cabinet of this and you need to up level some of it before you have those conversations because obviously the board doesn't wanna get into formulas in variables and assumptions in models and so forth. They just want the bottom line. Which is are we going to lose money and if so how much right and there's all sorts of things. We sort of revolve around that you know. There's there's penalties from regulatory compliance. If you have a breach potentially there is no brand harmon reputation. There is the the cost you know when it comes to the theft of intellectual property. There's just so there's so many costs but the end of the day. What they want understand is is the cost of mitigating or managing the risk greater than the cost of actually succumbing to the risk and. That's really what they want to know. And you know this as well and so it really becomes an exercise in. How do we develop a formula. How do we develop a process to measure risk in a way that we can all trust. We can all get on board with because as you know in g. r. c. groups governance the risk compliance groups. They have ways they like to measure risk that generally revolve around something like likelihood of occurrence times impact. And they do this for all different things right there dude for economic. They do for geopolitical risks. They do it for all kinds of things but when it comes to cyber. There's something missing today. In the way that companies do compliance and governance. Broadly and a big part of that is really finding a better way to translate. All of these cyber threats. You know how do they represent a risk if they do represent a risk because you know most security organizations are already pouring so much money and so much financial resources insecurity so not. Every threat is a risk right at a given point in time. So it's really it's really figuring out you. How do we determine what are the risks and more importantly moving away from at the board level. I think it's fine if you wanna go in there and you want to say look you know. Here's here's the heat map breakdown right. Here's the the red yellow green. Here's the high medium low because it's easier to communicate is easy to tell that story but for your for your your own team and for your own function being able to go a step further and say okay we'll high or medium. Or amber it's a little bit nebulous like what does that mean you and is a cis. So do you lose more sleep at night. Right when something is amber What does that mean. What right. What do you do about that. Yeah exactly and so. It's a much in my opinion. It is much easier to make confident decisions and as you know. Businesses are in the middle of digital transformation with covid. Every you know they're literally taking five year strategies and they're doing these things in five months or five weeks and there's obviously risk that comes along with that and so the business obviously wants to accelerate and enable the core business with technology but they also want to be able to dress these risks as they're happening and so it goes from. Hey we've got high risk over here or we've got you know a yellow risk over here to. This is the risk you know. This is the threat this is why it represents a risk to us and this is what we think it will cost us this year in very in very specific numbers right lost numbers. And there's nothing. There's nothing wrong. There's something inherently wrong with likelihood of occurrence times impact. Except that what i have seen in my experiences that people typically don't put a lot of rigor into those two variables and so it's kind of garbage in garbage out scenario and has really unfortunately kind of come to represent the state of of our industry. I think unfortunately and so. I'm in the book. I'm just advocating for a little bit. Deeper level of scrutiny. In how we calculate risk how we communicate it and really trying to find a framework. That is practical. Because there's frameworks out there that you know they're all about risk quantification but they're not practical and people get bogged down in the in the details of the minutia and it's ultimately counterproductive to the trying to do. So i i really i can. I have a new risk framework that i call category risk or threat category. Risk tea cr and it's really just designed to be super practical. It's based on a lot of the same principles as fair abbott. It's it's really designed to look at risk from a threat category perspective and it can be as granular as you want. It can be as general as you want and the point is to be practical to be able to to do something better in a short amount of time Practical is such a great key. Point here right. I mean because you can boil the ocean with this You can build out completely new like erm you know programs right in this space but the practicality it become so important to actually implement it and get something out of it in your conversations with folks. Are you hearing any like resistance to having to make sure that the models defendable Or people looking to pick apart the modeling As your people are kind of checking out the book and hit me up question. I think that's one of the most important questions is. If you're going to use a model making sure that you understand it and that you can defend it. And i think one of the benefits of this model is really based on principles in a hubbard in series book how to measure anything in cybersecurity risks. And i really think it's sort of a seminal read in our industry and so this this model is sort of adapting cyber threats to the principals they lay out in the book and of this is that there is uncertainty and you have to be able to account for that uncertainty in your model and you know you and i have talked about this at length. There's better data today than there was five six years ago and things have have moved very quickly in terms of so many breaches so many security events. But there's a lot of data now in terms of what those events are costing companies over two three year period. So you have much better data to to begin a inputting into a model and then you also have different strategies. So the one the one i talked about in the book you know are these monte carlo simulations which is finding a range instead of trying to come up with an actual number accounting for the unknown so starting with a lower bound in upper bound estimate and then basically letting the simulations take care of a lot of this and i think you know the the insurance industry may not be using this This is something i have also talked about. Is that you know the the insurance industry is getting much better underwriting cybersecurity policies in insurance policies and they have a lot better day to do this so obviously you know piggybacking on their data is great but i think at the end of the day. There's still uncertainty Really sort of why. I advocate for the model. That i do not no matter how but you do. The exposure never really goes away. Like you might mitigate risk but the actual exposure still there Lead so i think. That's that's a really cool point definitely hitting a point around you know there's enough data to start to get comfortable. The question will be. Is there enough data for people outside of our space to be comfortable in. And that's where. I'm really interested to see where this goes Man i have so many questions for you. Gotta take a quick break though in. We'll we'll dive into here in the next segment but our folks reynolds transition has commercial breaks of. Hey if your social media junkie don't forget to follow t of seven radio. David social media platform false twitter linked in facebook instagram at surging of seven radio. You'll be connected to the extended t of seven family and your favorite social media platform for regarding sponsoring the show or suggestions for These email george directly george dot rita's at t.f. Seven radio dot com. That's george rita's at t.f. Seven that's the number seven folks radio dot com quick messages from responsible for right back with senior vice president of global intelligence of recorded future mr levi under whatever you do. Don't go away. You listen a task force. Seven radio the voice cybersecurity. Have you rented us on facebook yet. Why not just go to. Facebook dot com forward slash voice america or search for the keywords voice america once you are part of our facebook network. You'll receive daily messages about what's happening with our shows this week's featured guest and new happenings at the voice. America talk radio network and you can add your voice to the always of discussions on our time. Line just go to facebook dot com forward slash voice america or search for voice america as cis. Iso's managed known malware attacks they also contend with the unknown unknowns with twenty four seven hacker innovation where do cis owes place their next security investment. Bet find the answer with sign it with forums and public and private partnership dinners in toronto. London singapore tokyo and across the us sign. It is a mission focused purpose. Driven global community advancing the next generation of cybersecurity solutions as an entrepreneurial ecosystems superconductor sign it brings innovators top cybersecurity professionals solution providers investors and government executives into a collaborative alliance joint science global community to empower your organization and the industry to defeat hackers was cybersecurity next generation of innovation learn more at security dash innovation dot org or google sign it s i'd net in today's interconnected world digital transformation is taking us on a journey towards exciting new ways to work live and communicate in business. Staying out in front of the competition means pushing the boundaries of the status quo and exploring the possibilities of the future however pushing forward into this fast. Changing digital landscape brings a new level of uncertainty an risk that must be measured understood and managed by delivering state of the art cyber risk analytics x. Analytics is setting the standard to bring business clarity to the complex cyberthreats organizations face each and every day when it comes to understanding your financial exposure to cyber risk trust what the global cyber insurance industry and fortune. Five hundred companies trust trust x. analytics to guide you through the uncertainty into cyber risk clarity for more information about exxon's visit our website today at x dash analytics dot com that's ex- dash analytics dot com x. Analytics setting the standard in the enterprise cyber risk management. You're listening to task four seven. Radio with george. Rita's if you'd like to find out more about our program. Please visit the website at task force. Seven radio dot com again. That's task force seven with a number seven radio dot com. Now back to this week's show here again is your host george rina's back task. Four seven radio the voice cybersecurity. We're back with senior vice. President of global intelligence recorded future mr levi gonder early by last segment. You touched on tea. Cr threat category risk. What is it and can you sway question. It's going to be challenging man. I'm not. I'm not gonna lie. No it is pretty straightforward. Like if tant than i've i've already failed so terry. Third category risk again is just based on the principle of quantifying risk and there are some other frameworks out there like fair which. I'm sure a lot of people have heard of an issue they should have that is very adversaries centric. Meaning there's a lot of thought in time put into trying to understand all of the minutia around particular threat actor threat actor group in terms of you know how they operate. The tools are what the tactics are. You know so forth and so on and we we already know that there are plenty of bad threat actors and adversaries. I'm really advocating more for again. A threat. category centric approach and again these can be as basic or granollers high levels. You want them to be so in the book. For example you know. The risk types the risk categories. I have social engineering. Maybe you look at that. And you say well. I actually want to split that out. I want fishing to be. Its own category. I want someone dropping some drives in a parking lot to be its own category. You know maybe you want to be more detailed. that's fine. But i just start with some basic example here so social engineering credential. Reuse web application vulnerabilities. Denial of service. Internet protocol. Hijacking hardware vulnerabilities software boehner abilities in physical tampering. So you know we're really talking about eight categories and again. You can be more specific if you want cemetery oil as you understand. Yeah exactly and it's this whole thing has got to be practical. You know nobody has time to be you know. And i'll tell you honestly i've talked to quite a few different c. Isos and. I'm very fortunate i get to go to events. I get to present on this topic. I get to interact with cis os and it really. Is you know. I feel blessed. That i i just get to learn from so many people like yourself. That are in the trenches. Right in that are that are responsible for the security of of as organizations. And everyone i've talked to has had a really difficult time Implementing fair in a very practical way. I've talked to people who've been spending a year two years or even longer trying to implement and they just don't have much to show for it so again. This is really designed to be. Let's do something quickly right. let let's get. Let's get the model done. Let's get the simulations run in a day. Two days at most and the great thing about this is it's a spreadsheet right to input your values of the input ranges and just a little bit a little bit of python code. Whatever you want to be. it's not much. Just run your simulations and that's what you end up with so you're going to enter values in ranges. So i you kinda have to start with you. Know how do i come up with a range while you know you think about you. Think about a term. Like annualized loss expectancy that is to say. How much money do we think we're gonna lose this year based on the category right. So let's take denial of service as an organization. Will we get hit by donald services here. There's probably not a a zero percent probability and there's probably not one hundred percent probability right. It falls somewhere in the middle. So you know you start with impact confidentiality of information availability information or both and then you literally come up with the rangers for what's it gonna cost you. If you get hit by a denial service attack so on the low end you say well. We probably get hit by. Donald serves tax once a week. And we don't even feel them because we outsource our security control on that to a third party company and they they basically handle that Upstream for us you know we use an act enacted meyer. Or what have you to to handle that. So it doesn't really cost us anything so on the one hand Do now serves attack. Could be a zero dollars sheer On the top end right if if it's a new type donald service attack. It uses a technique that no one's ever really seen before and it really can be overwhelming. Then it's possible that maybe our cycles down and if we're an ecommerce site how much does that costas on an hourly basis. You know that's not too hard to figure out. So it's religious inputting the values in the spreadsheet and then running the simulations and you can run a single simulation and excel And then like. I said it's just a little bit. A co two. Run those simulations one hundred thousand times or half million times and again the results that come out of this are good. Guide points right. It's not to say that everything in the model perfect because there are no perfect models Doesn't matter whether you're an insurance underwriter at doesn't matter how much do you have. There are no perfect models right and that's really important to say up front. This is again really designed to be a practical tool so that you can be more informed about what you think. Losses are in a given year against these threat. Categories really drive that conversation investment strategies Transfer even Yes so in the in the book. You talk about the role of security controls in control validation Love to get your take on just kind of where you see that space going a you know as a practitioner rates. It's sometimes it can be you know you get you wanna get past that quarterly pen test for folks right in especially small meetings is come as no have the same resources that can implement this kind of modeling. It will be the advice that you give them around ways to validate controls consistently. It's a great question and you know this. You know i. I would love to turn the question around for you because i guess you know. It's how comfortable are you that you know that quarterly or annual pen test is really sufficient to flush out where you may have gaps in your security controls because of course you know the better you understand that better that you can push values into your your wrist model and really better understand the numbers and i think there are products out there in its nascent market. But there's definitely products out there doing iterative control validation right where you build scenarios and you run scenarios within your own environment in in a virtual sense and you can score your controls that you can score your host based controls network controls. Even you know maybe your process controls. And i think that's really where the best bang. The buck is in intelligence because so many companies today. If they haven't intelligence team you know when you talk to him their primary deliverable tends to be threat reports and if you kinda follow that you ask Who reads the threat reports while you know. We sent him up the chain and get distributed in people read them. And it's like would you get any feedback. I mean sometimes but you know people making decisions based on these reports like hard to know right so got this entire group of people with a daily workflow now these reports but how how do they measure the efficacy in the value of these things. What is it in us so difficult right. So if you're getting daily threat report like what are you doing with that. How do you how do you measure and communicate the value of that. Yeah i love that conversation right It really speak to the evolution of intelligence in kind of getting away from we say we want to be as close to the threat as possible. wanna know everything about that threat actor as we possibly can but we also have to turn around and say we need to be as close to our controls as possible to understand if the threat in control actually would be bypassed by that threat exactly exactly and that's what that's what intelligence should be doing for businesses. It should be acting as the canary in the coalmine. Right to to raise Set up these scenarios that you're playing out you know to understand when you have a gap point in time because that is the speed that threats and threat actors move at so the quarterly and the annual pen test. Don't work anymore. They're not frequent enough. If where do you think the for me. Adding united chatted on minor von. Oh you know these. ob man. I want to have an app that me my estimated financial exposure in real time based on all my tool. Can you know my tools. Power being attacked at that moment. In the effectiveness like control. So i if i zoom out a little bit it will be a little bit be threat. Likelihood plus control effectiveness plus business impact is being. I think right. And the the threat likelihood piece i think is very easily doable. The control effectiveness piece really requires a lot more immigration development. But i love to get your take on the cyber attack simulation space like there are some tools out there that that do this. The it's a really good reporting you know kind of getting it all figured and everything's another story but i think we're moving in that direction we're How far down the road using that spaces from being really mature. I think we're a couple years out. You know. I think in the same way that risk. Quantification is slowly gaining some traction. I think control. Validation is is slowly gaining traction in adoption in the same way because i think there is that realization. That threats move really quickly. And there's a news if there's a new ransomware family the start selling in underground economy in criminal forms you know today. How long is it gonna take you right to understand whether your point security controls are effective against it. How long's it gonna take you to understand how it spreads is its initial unauthorized access. Happening via fishing is happening via exposed remote desktop protocol. Instances is it happening through. Web application vulnerabilities. You know all of those questions. They take time to answer. And so i think that's where to your point. A technology has a really fundamental role to played help. Accelerate that cycle so in the book. I talk about two metrics that are very similar to incident response. Metrics which meantime to surface or meantime to detect rate in the meantime to assess meaning. How long does it take you to become aware of a new threat. And then what. You're aware of the threat. How long does it take you to actually do to control validation and it may be it could be minutes. Could be days could be weeks depending on the complexity of that new threat and what we found it recorded features that we have clients that are definitely on the more mature side. That are on the front end of this. That are that are doing this right. And they're they're using products that are out there Or they're developing scenarios A friend of mine stefan janette you know is the founder and ceo former ceo at the founder of attack. I q a company headquartered in originally based in san diego and this was their vision. And i remember Stefan actually seeing down lunch with him one day and him kind of explaining what his vision was for this product and kind of blew me away because it was such a gap in it still is a gap in our industry. So i think you know again. That's the most powerful thing intelligence can be doing is instead of creating a report for someone to maybe you're may not read it and really no actions that come out of that intelligence should be to your point driving everything closer to controls which is how does this thing work and what what our controls doing it. A point in time and we found that in a certain clients who recorded feature. They find all the time that even though they have any buyers even though they have in solution oftentimes. There is a gap between a threat. That is in the wild and what that what that security control can do in terms of protection you know five days out from that initial threat and maybe catch up to three weeks. But maybe there's a couple of days where there and i think that's really the the you know the power of the power of irritative control validation. Enter jere question in my long winded way of answering this. I really think this is going to become much more of an industry standard Over the next two three years especially he got me thinking about a whole bunch of things. you know. I love the correlation between regular i. are stats We talk a lot about the arms race that we're in right in typically hear that in the context of malware ray Newberry comes out and point. Have av software in point has to be reconfigured all that kind of stuff but an essence the same thing across every control rate and. I think that's a really fun topic to explore for folks if they haven't been thinking about control validation in control effectiveness in the same way as broadly as they used to is for av right back in the back in the day right you know. I think that's the right way to think about this stuff because otherwise you're you're not being holistic. Do i do wonder. I wanna get your take on the time though right like we have a lotta. We don't have a lot of time. And sometimes these controls you know. They require investment take Take re architecture. You're depending on maturity levels. You know all that kind of stuff right Do you feel like having a framework like this would enable people to kind of be under be comfortable with the amount of time things take to get implemented or is it still just a look. Doesn't matter if you have that kinda runway we give you the top cover to have that runway. You still men have on. The hook happens right. It's a good point. So i think you know a couple of things so number one. You're right like everyone is short. On resources there's a dearth of resources everywhere in human financial etc and security control. Validation helps you with this initiative scorn process to your point so that you can potentially build a dashboard and you can bring technology to bear on. Something that is is a big problem. Solve so i think that's number one and number two. I think to your point. It also helps you with a consistent story as you go in to the board and you tell the story of being able to talk through your security control scoring right at any point in time helps you sort of compare apples to apples. Have a consistent story to say. Look you know. We've had to go back to our vendor of different times because they didn't have protection they didn't have seemed it didn't have definitions for threat acts or why and we were exposed for five days or whatever it was and i think that helps in terms of storytelling helps teller consistent story about where there needs to be additional resource investment in the business and i think without that. It's it's really difficult. Right because i talked about this in the book is it's so many companies. Today are very compliance focused and by that. I mean they're going to align to the nist cybersecurity framework they're gonna to iso twenty seven thousand two whatever it may be and everyone acknowledges there super helpful tools right there. They're great tools for baseline things to kind of understand where you are. But i talked to see isos who tell me all the time. Look the overarching. Goal of our security program is to is to move Our maturity from three to four in this cyber security firm. It's like there's nothing wrong with that but the problem ran into then you start thinking in terms of check box We implemented the firewall chat. We you know. We outsource to assault check. But there's never there's never a lot of follow thought about the efficacy of the solutions and the continuous monitoring of the security controls. And so you run into this problem where people just kind of want to check the box and move on as mentality instead of the risk based approach that we're talking about. Which is i want to know how. My controls are faring. Every single day against the latest threats. And then i want to be able to convert that into actual risks risks numbers because that gives me that gives me tools in power to tell a story that i just can't tell otherwise because otherwise i can only say yeah you know we increase maturity we check the boxes and as you know andy i mean you you have investigated a ton of major breaches so many organizations get breached but yet they're compliant the day before they get breached. Whether it's pc idea sas or some other frameworks so it's really changing the way the entire organization thinks about security to say yes. There's obviously things we have to do from a governance appliance perspective. But that's just one tool in the tool bag and our entire holistic security program to your point should be centered around brisk and understanding what that risk is any given point in time. And if we can't do that we need to invest more to get to that point man our brother we're gonna take another short break to hear from our sponsors. Don't go away folks. we're right back with more from senior vice president global intelligence record. Future mr levi governor. You're listening to task for seven radio. The voice so cyber security yet. The news on our shows and other happenings by following us on twitter. Find us at voice. America t. r. n. or twitter dot com forward slash voice america tr an in. Today's interconnected world digital transformation is taking us on a journey towards exciting new ways to work live and communicate in business. Staying out in front of the competition means pushing the boundaries of the status quo and exploring the possibilities of the future however pushing forward into this fast. Changing digital landscape brings a new level of uncertainty and risk must be measured understood and managed by delivering state of the art cyber risk analytics x. Analytics is setting the standard to bring business clarity to the complex cyber threats organizations face each and every day when it comes to understanding your financial exposure to cyber risk trust what the global cyber insurance industry and fortune. Five hundred companies trust trust x. analytics to guide you through the uncertainty into cyber risk clarity for more information about accent olympics. Visit our website today at x dash analytics dot com. That's ex- dash analytics dot com x. Analytics setting the standard. In the enterprise. Cyber risk management cis owes managed known malware attacks they also contend with the unknown unknowns with four seven hacker innovation. Where do see. Iso's place their next security investment. Bet find the answer with sign it with forums and public and private partnership dinners in toronto. London singapore tokyo and across the us sign. It is a mission focused purpose. Driven global community advancing the next generation of cybersecurity solutions as an entrepreneurial ecosystem superconductor sign. It brings innovators top cybersecurity. Professionals solution providers investors and government executives into a collaborative alliance joined scientist global community to empower your organization and the industry to defeat hackers was cybersecurity next generation of innovation learn more at security dash innovation dot org or google sign it s i net. You're listening to task for seven. Radio with george. Rita's if you'd like to find out more about our program please visit the website at taskforce seven radio dot com again. That's tasked four seven with the number seven radio dot com now back to this week's show here again is your host. George rina's welcome back is asked for seven radio. The voice cybersecurity. We're back with senior. Vice president of global intelligence recorded future by pow. Mr levi under our buddy spent a crazy twenty twenty with everything going on. Glad you're famous doing well. But i do wanna get your perspective on you kind of lessons. Learned from twenty twenty. That's a crazy question I you know. I talked about earlier with the digital transformation and i think that's so true just the way that companies have had to respond and adapt overnight. And i think i heard earlier. You were talking about a a recent episode around fishing. I'm just basic threats that we've been dealing with for you know twenty plus years now like fishing continue to be problematic as employees went full time remote companies trying to figure out things like you know. Are they able to print documents out. Do they have shredders to you. Know how much more vpn capacity or we can have to add. You know so that everyone can continue to get hungry. Vpn and do their job and all traffic around the world vpn's d. Yeah i mean know down to fishing in. How do we deal with in employees. That may be susceptible to fishing at home. What are the implications of that for our assets and our network and so it's been to your point it's just been super challenging and i think you know everyone's trying to adopt and respond as quickly as possible but i think some of those basic threats that we know about just continue to be so difficult to to handle on a large scale in any any major shifts in the underground or just kinda steady. Stay leveraging the things that have continue to work and take advantage of the kind of the pandemic chaos. I think one of the things we've seen within our criminal team at record future. You know we've really seen a a pretty significant uptick in actors that are selling or auctioning that initial unauthorized access into a company. And you know it used to be five years ago when an actor compromised a resource right computer. Whatever it may be. There wasn't necessarily a recognition that that resource had specific value when it sat inside of a company especially because five six years ago know botnets were were big and you know the way you monetize the button. It was every computer was basically worth ten or fifteen cents in a pay per install model and it didn't really matter where it was. But now we're really seeing that adversaries understand that when they're able to either opportunistically gain access to a resource system inside the network or even in a targeted fashion that there is so much more value right to that. And so we're seeing auctions of twenty thousand dollars or fifty thousand us dollars. Depending on who. The company is the level of access that they have so. That's been pretty shift that we've been following for the last eighteen months or so and it's really sort of ramped up during covert. I think the other trend that's been pretty disturbing. Is that most of the people that are buying that access our ransomware purveyors. They are a people or groups that push ransomware into these networks and systems and a lot of that initial foothold is coming from other actors in the underground economy. So we're seeing this. This cycle become a very vibrant. And it's unfortunate because on top of that you know we're also seeing this model. Where if the ransoms paid. They're moving to trying to extort through pi theft there even now moving to try and parse out these databases of victims within these databases to try to extort the victims directly and that could be anything from healthcare records to other types of pi. It's just a super disturbing trend in. Obviously there's been a lot of headlines around hospitals and schools getting hit We're going to see more of that because this is such a vibrant ecosystem in the monetization. Potential is so high so unsure a couple of weeks to start getting hit hard for your twenty one projections. But i'm to get you just a little bit early here so little bit. What are you gonna happen outside. The groundbreaking insight futuristic insight. You wanna share. Everyone loves the the next year a prognostications. No so i think you know it's it's not difficult to see evolutions again in the business model around ransomware. I think we're going to continue to see. Just tremendous criminal investment in that type of business and they're going to continue trying to innovate in the way that they find in deliver ransomware that is unfortunately super troubling. And then i think you know. The presidential election is definitely going to alter some things. I think you know if you've if you sort of think about nation. State campaigns and nation state sponsored cyber campaigns. What effect will the biden administration have on some of that activity Trump was a hard charger in terms of addressing. What's been happening with. China over the last twenty years and you know iran as well right backing out of the the. Jcp away. so. I think it'll be interesting to see biden into foreign policy team. You know really kinda. What is the ethos in the mantra there in especially dealing with the big four you know china. Russia north korea iran. I think with the assassination that just occurred in iran. You know there is the potential for a lot more activity right coming out of the as as a tool sort depending on what happens in the administration in how they look at this so i think it's difficult to know exactly what what biden is gonna do but i think there's there's just a lot of unknowns in a lot of uncertainty around you know will will they'll be retaliation from companies from countries like iran. Excuse me Does does it matter. Who's in the white house. Kinda kinda difficult to say. We'll bring you back in like six months and we'll see where your head's at well you can prove. Everything i said was wrong limit. I really should come back on the show buddy. I'm glad all is well with you in the family. Likewise always great chatting with the andy. Thanks for the opportunity. Umbrella are folks time for us to bounce Here thanks for tuning in. You're listening to task for seven radio though boyce cybersecurity stay frosty. Thank you for tuning in this week to task. Four seven radio to learn more about task force seven radio. Please visit our website at task force. Seven radio dot com. Be sure to join your host. George rita's again. Monday at eight pm eastern time five. Pm pacific time on the voice. America business channel.

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3D Printing Today

44:30 min | 1 year ago


"Three deepening today's show number two ninety four clone are one gets duet Wifi par-five nozzle cleaning thermal blankets. Welcome back to Three D. Printing today the podcast about all aspects of Three D. Printing Hobby professional industrial it does not matter we cover it. All My name's Andy Cohen. I'm here at Mr Witt potted how you doing doing pretty good so interesting. Story came out in our time just a couple of days ago <hes> but then time for this show. It's been about four five weeks about carbon now what I about this company carbons. I thought the name of the company was Carbon Three D. Didn't you live thought it was yeah well this article and their website now refers to their company as just carbon okay which just strange elemental and and the article which is very impressive says that they got a huge pile of cash ash dropped into their laps two hundred sixty million dollars and which is even more amazing is that with that pilot cash and and and I assume their plans that they've publicized the valuation on the I guess the investment market is is now two point four billion with a b <hes> <hes> value of their company a company of approximately at this time four hundred employees. He's that's kind of big and they're considered a Silicon Valley company because they're they're based in Menlo Park but a lot of their stuff's stops in redwood city and in Europe a lot of other places they're kind of distributed all over the place I'm looking at at this article and they're talk about about their plans and and and wear their added value is and they're saying that they're focuses production <hes> and they're they're pointing two things like the lace this kind of the these kinds of capabilities where they can print different rigetti rigid capable materials in these lace lace kind of patterns that really can't be produced any other way outside of Three D. Printing but to produce that and make it per piece inexpensive of enough to be competitive for large-scale production. I gotTA wonder how how is that going to happen. Are they really going to be able to pull that off Tom. While their claim to fame was always the speed of their printers <hes> and their ability to essentially print stuff you know as you watch kind of <hes> <hes> if the videos are to be believed and they're talking about partnerships with NASA sporting company Redel Kitchenware Company the Vitamix vitamix people that Hamas blenders. There's all this talk about who they're going to be working with and I assume developing developing the capabilities ability to produce parts but you know you've got to use their materials. You've got to use their software. You've got to use their machines and when you're in a situation like that they've got to make a profit which means they're going to charge you per part it could cost a thousand bucks apart. Well it but I mean it depends on. I mean they've got. They've got to be competitive jeff right or else. You're not going to be going with that. How do they achieve that? How do they get their cost of ownership or the the cost of using their products to be low enough so that they're profitable and the people that use those parts can get their costs low enough so that they're profitable right? I think that remains to be seen. I hate to be skeptical here. I'm sorry I hate to be a buzzkill but you'd have to show me how you invest. Do you think about it. I mean at at scale the the cost of plastic and an injection molded part versus the cost of plastic in a three D. printed part is not going to be a whole lot different. You know I mean they're still sort of a floor that both of those are GonNa are GonNa land on yeah for for Parts Produced Three D. printed using more less. What's the word less proprietary abilities like F._D._M? Or S._L._A. I can see it even even with S. L. S. these days. They're getting a cheap deep enough but carbon I spoke with the fellow at NASA that uses the Carbon Printer <hes> and the first thing out of his mouth was he kind of expensive we can only sprint like one or two parts and he's holding a part that's between his two fingers and that and that's the the and that expense comes from the resin not from the come some printer comes from all the above yeah sure right. You've gotta pay per per part based on your cost of ownership which includes the purchase of the printer and the Turtles Facility right you. Do you do with any printer but the question is is there a cost going to be less and they're part quality going to be higher in in the end and that's that's the question that's what they're going on four for we will see we'll see what happens but if I was going to write a check I have to be shown how they're going to get there and sure in this in this glowing article which is like almost everything on the web these days about three D. Printing. There's no mention how they get to that point only about how how they got all these partnerships with all these companies seem to assume they're going to get to that point yeah. It's a it's a puff piece but but hey you know I mean that that it seems to be seems to be how the news is done these days except for except for our podcast the grouchy old guy and they were like those guys on the Ma show stuff. I don't believe this is a science fiction. Yeah be that as it may we are also so investors and we take where we put our money seriously and while you know clip clip look like such an exciting thing clip was where they I use them a membrane made of oxygen that made it possible to not necessarily <hes> <hes> what's the word repeal dry S._l._A. A S._l._A. Printing which means printing goes so much faster well you know the other companies in China worked around that issue and isn't that basically what carbon does yeah. That's coming from carbon. That's their clip thing right yeah. Well you know if that's the case they've got competition and you've got to take that into account tip so I don't know we'll see and knowing that I know about S._l._A. Printing and all the Goo and stuff involved in it and the problems of carrying it. I'm not really sure her. I want a vitamix with a food processing appliance with S._L._A. Printed parts well. You know there is another news article in there about how they've got this new kind of resin that is for dental. That's supposed to be good for you know. The body is supposed to be bio bio friendly. Well doesn't but that's not that's not good for the body. That's just just less doesn't kill you but remember the issue isn't the resin itself unconquered arisen in which is bad cured. Resin can be benign right. It's just it just plastic at that point but but it's it's a polymer. It's the monomers we have to be careful. Yes yes be very careful. Please don't put that brand new duplicator seven in your bedroom. Please don't do that or the your your other S._l._A. Selling machine anyway what's coming up on our show this week with the show number two ninety four always start out with another part and I think this is the the last part in the clone are one on his wife and no there will be more. It'll be ongoing. We just not gonNA label it like that okay <hes> and then we're going to talk about different methods of nozzle cleaning and then talk about thermal blankets boy. That's sure sounds exciting okay. Let's do it so we're on our next segment about. Updating the clone are one to a duet Wi fi and last time we talked about software before that firmware then connecting with hardware and now I wanNA talk about the add on's that the the do the the Wifi the Duet Wifi gives you that <hes> are fairly interesting and they could be the reasons for why you buy the do- at wildfire the duet the duet on the comes with Wi fi it comes with the hardware ethernet connector. There are other models but I think right now today this may change by the time the skits out there. It's the do it to do it to Wi fi or do it to Ethernet. There's also the DO D. E. D. E. U. X. I'm not at all not at all familiar with it at aw on the ones I am familiar with the Wi fi ethernet versions <hes> <hes> they they like I've said before they're designed to be Three D. printing specific for any three D. printing desktop three D printing context which makes them extremely versatile extremely powerful the thirty two bit S._T. car-based so it's whatever size S._T. Card that you put into their it's a micro Esti. <hes> it's not worth wasting your time with an S._T. Card reader because the Wi fi connection if you get it connected correctly as we talked about the first segment it makes it so easy to go right from your slicing machine directly into the duet board. You'll never use an S._T. Cardigan it's just like the race three D did that to me to really good good where OCTA print a really good Internet Wifi land-based interface and you'll stop buying those cheap to Gigabyte S._D. Cards well provided provided that the the printer has a controller on it. The problem I had Dr Prynne is that you would start a print remotely but then then you went and looked at the printer and if the printer was screwing up then you had to go back to we had to hit some machine that was running the entrepreneur website to think oh it stop op the print and I don t the way my shop is set up my my printers are all in in the shop with tools and computers are in a different room so that becomes a pain well the the WIFI board the processing system and the Wifi serving base things all in the same place which is really annoy some <hes> so. I like it a lot in the way I operated with OCTA print. I put the Raspberry Pi right there next to the three D. Printer so I was operating that way with with octa print anyway but the race three D. works that way too but once you get into that you start to not like sneaker knitting any longer not long no longer anger that much fun <hes> in any case the the the WIFI interface is wonderful. It's better than what the first ad on would likely be and Annette I add on would be the panel do the panel do is a fully integrated user interface with a touchscreen backlit L._C._d. And all of the resources in there to do the processing in connect through a ribbon cable to the Duet Controller Board now there's two ways of connecting one with a fairly significant ribbon cable. I forgot how many leads it is but it's fairly large at least engineer now and then there's the other way which is a four lead connector connection. <hes> both ways of doing it will make noise are F- noise. This is the from what I understand. The wider cable will make a lot more R F noise than the four lead cable on the four. Leo Cables Probably Twisted repairers the none none of them are twisted pair just ribbon but you can make a twisted pair version. If you've got the skill talk you can make your Sarah go again. So if you're prepared to do that great you should do it. It should be it should be twisted pair or some kind of protected cable there are it does not come the panel dues do not come with casings on them so you'll need to three d print a plastic case for it. There are three types of panel dues currently available but I think ones being phased out but today the two primary ones that I don't recommend by any others <unk> by either the seven or the five I I bought the FI. I didn't mind the seven why because it didn't make a difference you still get the same screen. The seven is great. I guess if you it's not a bigger screen. It's a bigger screen but there's not more information. I'll just bitch information's bigger so I just got the smaller one the way I i. I'll I have suggested a case that I use. I put it on our show notes but it's thing number twenty seven seven twenty seven ninety nine six twenty eight. I tried four or five of them and this is the only one that actually Ashley worked well for me. I then put on stick on plastic loops so that I can basically jam the panel wherever I want. It's not in one spot use. These plastic loops US enough of them. Let them dry overnight and they're nice insecure. You can just pop the panel channels like industrial fell. Plastic velcro works really well. You could buy it at any hardware store the panel do if you use the four conductor ribbon cable then you cannot use the micro S._T. Card reader in the panel. Do you have to use the extra extra wide traces to carry on exactly so I I may upgrade that however keep in mind that that s t card reader is a micro S._T. Ones that which makes it a real pain in the push to do however if you've got a three D. printed case then you can stick in a large reader cable onto that and integrate that into your case but you know what once you've got the do it Wifi. Even the panel do becomes questionable so you're not going to be using sneakernet any longer now. If you're in a situation where you don't have any Wifi for specific reasons then it makes sense for you to think about about using the wider cable S._D. Cord unfortunately or or putting Ethernet yeah putting Ethernet any case. That's it's the panel dude is the panel do really worth it. <hes> well probably not might be better to just get yourself an inexpensive <hes> tablet an old android tablet. That'll read a Wi fi on using the web browser and use the web interface because the web interface interface to the to the duet is substantially more capable and useful than the panel do screen. That's reality you've got but like for example for Mesh compensation for Z high control. You've gotta pull down with all the commands in there on the panel. Do you've got one button and you'll have micromax rose. You'll have to generate your own microbes. Digest it all to do it. So in the end I find the panel dues. It's it's most important use a use for me so far has been when those those emergency stops when I wanted to stop everything in because things are not going right if I didn't have the panel do I wouldn't be able to do that to have some kind of an interface right there. So is it worth it yeah. They're not cheap. They're at least one hundred bucks and you still have to connect them mall and and do stuff with it so there are other other add ons that are possible to do again. The duets got tons of things that connects to you can get a run out censor- there's like six different styles that you can use however the one that they sell officially is a optical reader. That's just the board and you have to integrate it into a holder for it to work correctly. It's not a rotating wheel so speed will not be looked at although you can get one that does do that on the board does support it. <hes> you can also like I said earlier you can put in one of three different <hes> say heat-sensors <hes> basic burmeister type K or much more sophisticated type T one hundred one thousand thermal couple. It's got this huge ribbon cable that you attach a daughter aboard to that'll add I pretty sure five more steppers and heaters controllers as good for the multicolor builds. Were not material. It's essential yeah multiple extruders. I'm not sure what other what other boards out there support that many control it's. It's the only one I've seen that you can actually get all four are four stepper motor extruded on right now for sure though if you've got yourself a thermal couple board and an expansion board you've got what I usually refer to as a Kluge. You've got this board with a whole bunch of things. Hanging off of that in itself can become a problem if not managed properly when Carl built the clone are one he he built with a multi-layered controller board situation that was designed well where he had everything on uprights very very well secured <hes> the do board unfortunately doesn't do that as securely there is a plastic upright that POPs into the thermal couple board that protects it but it's still not that secure so there's tons of add on's tons of capability more so than you probably would expect more more so than you probably need need more so than you may so you got to Claude. Things are not working right you. You don't know what's going on obviously you. You need to figure out what's happening so you try loading your filament to see if the filament will flow through and the filament is trying we get out and it's not getting out and you're getting stepper stutter or you. filaments going out but it's going out sideways or what's going out. Go turning around and going up and then going down going off a little bit to the side any of that you gotta clog good indication indication of o'clock. We've talked about clogs so much on this podcast yes. How do you clean it? We're not gonNA talk about how you get a clog. I've been talking about how you're cleaning. Say you know the thing is I haven't gotten clogs in years because the film has gotten so so much better than it was in the early days I went. I was looking through my box of nozzles. <hes> and I found my first nozzle. My first nozzle which I broke I looked at that nozzle in it looks brand new so I didn't use it that much before I broke it and I broke it because I tightened ended up more than I should have. A and hop block was harder than the nozzle which is appropriate strange because the blogs made of aluminum yet it broke anyway that nozzle reminded pardon me of my first batch of Chinese purchased filament that I got through Oh <hes> deal extreme that was the one that had the tiny ball all bearings tiny tiny bearing of some kind and that's when plugged up right so there's literally metal scrap melted into the film at that we ended up for that good but it was that nozzle that taught me how to clean the nozzle in the extreme right. Let's let's talk about cleaning a nozzle okay and I'm not talking about necessarily polishing the outside counsel which leaning Clog Oh yeah which by the way <hes> if you if you're using a nozzle that shaped I'd say the best example is the e three d nozzles the volcanoes volcanoes that come out that kind of shape. There is a good thing you should do even before you've ever used the nozzle this comes from our friend Michael Hackney where you take the nozzle remove it move it from the extruder taken. If you wearing jeans jeans work great and just rub it rub it on the jeans and Paul sure Polish it up and the reason that makes Michael says to do this because if you looked the brand new nozzle like U._S._B. U._S._B. Microscope you can see that the edges of the orifice are not idea. There's going to be on it from from the very beginning now. If you're using a margate or mark seven nauseam that can't be the case because it's coming to a very sharp tip and presenting still could be burned on there but yeah but if you Polish it you can bend if you Polish anything more aggressive than Dan which by the way is very unaggressive polishing a medium. You're likely to likely to remove the end of the nozzle but we're not talking about that. We're talking about their stuff going on and Scott so my favorite approach coach first thing I ever did when I see this kind of thing going on is to put it back into load and let it have its negative effect and take an e string from an electric guitar. It's got to be a light gauge. Put on my magnifies nice bright light and while the stuff actually stop it from extracting jammed jammed in there which is kind of tricky but it's worth worth the work <hes> get it in there on the tip and slowly work it in get it in their kind of shove it up and does is while taught while it's hot. It's got to be hot. You're wasting your time. It's hot as you can get it a little bit hotter than you would load it at and then while the the the guitar strings in in their turn on load kind of wish it around in slowly pull it out okay and that can clear whatever it is. That's usually it's it's slightly hardened filament on the sides of the orifice right comes right off yeah well what I usually start with that that that's it's kind of my go-to. That's sort of Stage two stage. One doesn't work bet stage one for me. Is I tried to start with the least invasive of procedure. That's like surgery so I start with you know something less drastic. I let the nozzle cool down ounce or turn off the heater. Let it cool down. Watch the temperature and what gets down around. Maybe a hundred degrees <hes> I would. I <hes> <hes> <hes> depress the the load leveler on the exterior depends on the design Sarong idler arm Yamba generally you want to you want to remove the <hes> the <hes> pressure that that is on the film it from the from the extruder. <hes> doesn't really matter if your if your stepper motors are off but it makes a little bit easier so they gotta be disabled the rise you're wasting your time yeah so so depressed that <hes> and then grab the filming on the top and pull it straight out out as hard as you can. <hes> is some films worked better than others with that if it's if it's really Brittle Pele. You're probably just going to break it off but something like Nylon Ceylon works beautifully because Nyland's an indestructible as we always talk about <hes> and what I really like about this as if it's done properly and it works you're you're pulling all of the crap out of the nozzle and then you clip off the end of the film and throw it away instead of if you're putting your your your eastern up through the orifice then you're you're sort of swooshing stuff around in there but you're still trying to extract it through the nozzle right whereas whereas if you if you do the cold pole you're actually getting material out of there not trying to put it through the NAS important that you call it the cold poll right now my hi opinion yeah don't do that with feeling that's my most yeah most most Pele unless it's absolutely brand new fresh role of good stuff. Most Pele is too brittle to new in my opinion. Is You unload whatever it is that you're using and either and I wouldn't even use nine ten anymore nylon. I would use T._P._U. uh-huh and teepee you I would. I've done this quite a bit. You've you've told me about this and you get it so it extruders the teepee you a little bit and then you let it go completely -pletely cold right yeah you can do that and then when you pull the T._p._U. The T._p._U. stretches next down E._S._O. It gets thinner and thinner hip and when it does pop out pop out all the way from the outside counsel yes and it can smack your hands but yes that that that is that is the extreme version of culpable works very well if you can if you can manage it now that too in my opinion can be more invasive than Qatar strengh because you're putting pressure on on your gantry yet well when when you I was GonNa say when you do this put in your your one hand. That's that's if assuming it's it's not a Bowdoin in you actually have the extreme there. You're putting your your hand on the you know you're putting your your thumb or whatever ever on the the <hes> the loading lever to release the the gears as you're doing that also be aware of you know sort of holding down on the Gantry entrace. Oh you're not putting strain on the entry because yeah that that that is you're putting a lot of strain the upper direction where it's not really designed to take that but I I wouldn't I wouldn't do that that very often with teepee you absolutely cold not because it does take a lot of force to to pull it out another thing you can do with that by the way if you're if you're using because US TV was so flexible rather than actually trying to pull it by hand. Take a pair of needle nose pliers grab it right as it comes out of the extruder just this clamp off on it and then roll it twist it yeah slowly slowly and that pulls it out but it's not actually putting any strain on the Gantry I it doesn't snap and smack you A and we're pulling the great big rubberband go slowly and it gives a time to stretch and par off the sides. I like that. I done it that way too but let's say that doesn't doesn't work yeah if that doesn't work. I'm down to the Eastern. Let's say that doesn't work then. I'm replacing the nozzle probably well. Let's talk about before you get to replace in August so we're talking about a brass nozzle. Yeah not a steel nozzle right with a brass nozzle. You take the nozzle off and you take it to your stove. You've or your torch that has a blue flame passed. I had a blue flame from what I understand. Propane Torch and you cook it in cook out the A._B. S._A._P. L._A. G Throw it away. You can't do this with Peci if it's nylon probably also thrown away. You can't do this well you. Can you just have to get significantly hotter. Make sure you're well ventilated. If it's in your kitchen make sure your stove ventilation fan is on or windows are open. Make sure your wife if is not watching with your husband depending on your spouse or your significant other or your landlord you do this your insurance underwriter. It Burns like a candle. It's not really that dangerous use needle nose pliers. There's not very much of it that you're burning but you don't want to breathe few no no no anyway you you can burn it out usually by find as I get. It really really softened. I Bang the thing on a piece of tile that I use for this and the stuff trips this out really fast you burn it all anyway I cook it all out and usually I let it cool and then I look in the light to to see if the whole has been cleared and for some reason that I can't really understand if I do it right away. I don't see anything <hes> but I let it cool for a while while interesting and then I look and I see it's cleared thumb. I I also during this time while it's still hot put the guitar string lunge plunged out lunch it out and <hes> milk in the light and if I could see light then I'm good I let it cool down and get like a paper towel or something or something I can get in there and clear off whatever never carbon is in there okay and I also have a drill bit that goes in the throw one point seven five millimeter throat and if it's if it's got the tolerance and doesn't <music> bite or anything I clear that way but I get something in there to kind of make sure if there's any ash or stuff in there I've cleared it out yes yet Dr- drill bit down the one point seven and five millimeter drill bit down. The top of the nozzle is good drill bit up the orifice of the nozzle very bad idea. I don't know why they it was never do that. Please don't do that. Don't buy a drill bit for the orifice because point four millimeter drill bit is so brittle. It's unbelievable how easy it is to break drug because Andrew that has to be hardened to actually work as a drill bit so it's the worst tool yes for cleaning the orifice the actual the actual point four mil hole on their use a guitar string. You can tie guitar string in knots. It will not break well. It will if you play it well when I play well yeah but I break them all right but but you're doing the Pete Townsend windmills you're not gonNA break a guitar string on and off now. Okay so now it's cooled off and clear all clean the surface with your on your pants again and it's GonNa print like it's brand new. It may be slightly used. It may not be shiny any longer but it doesn't matter if you WANNA shiny you can Polish it up if you really care now if you do this with a hardened steel all muzzle you will ruin the hardened aspect of it well. If you'd get it too hot you will you will lose the temper on it sure assuming assuming that they're actually bothering to heat heat treated which I don't know that depends on the nozzle manufacturer. There's plenty of them where the probably just machine out of something like forty forty and not bothering to heat treat us. Here's a affect nozzles brass nozzles now are so inexpensive yeah and if you find God I've got a vendor for the race three D nozzle. There's a vendor on Allie expressed that sells an equivalent. It says it's market it is not mark eight but it it does match the Race Three D. version of the mark a thinner on the flats on the heck's the heck's power eight point three something slightly thinner and slightly longer and you can get for five bucks a bag of these things and the moment is starts to act up you just throw it just toss it and put a brand new and there's there's an unless at some really esoteric nozzle there's limits to how much effort I would put it in declaring one plan on keeping keeping spares the same thing Ricky Three d style nozzles. They're so inexpensive right now. Sometimes it's just not worth your time to bother unclogging it so consider that if you're using a reality machine which is what most of the machines out there are now these days you can get these the same inexpensive markets they'll work in the reality perfectly ah so don't even bother clearing your nozzle just got a brand new one. Yeah you might want to look at what caused that that clog and if you do have a role a bad film it or something something that's causing clogs less likely than it was in the old days but you might Wanna get different film if you if you clog nozzles dollars's repeatedly using that color or whatever difference but I got my first three D. Printer by replicator to <hes> one of the things that really you confused me and I could not figure out who's why there was this orange kind of covering right by the nozzle what the heck was that orange shiny covering and it really bothered me because it looked kind of fragile but it was it was it worked fine and I didn't worry about it and everything worked after a couple of weeks. The printer was starting to work out. I was actually getting prince notice. I said a couple of weeks to get past the crap tastic feeder that the sold that thing with anyway at some point in time related to the crap tastic <hes> extruder the the the wire on the thermal couple came out yeah. That's that's bad that's bad. Shut everything off and I had to fix that etape thermal blanket off to do that well. I didn't know what the thermal blanket was good. I I knew what captain tape was but because of the the white material ahead underneath the thing uh-huh I couldn't tell it that was capped on tape until I started taking things apart and sure enough a tour and at the time you only way you can and replace it was to purchase this the stuff underneath the captain tape. Is this white kind of paper or fiber. This is papery material well that's super fragile and the captain covers it and they cut it in a special way it was it was kind of efficient the way they did it. But of course you couldn't take it off once you've removed it's ruined so how to replace that and I went digging around and I found for way less than what maker about was going to charge charge me I could purchase this cloth vibe Labra glass and just cut that to size and then and then captain that stuff back on I remember were you gave me about a foot of it. I've used used very little bit of it but it worked really well and stuff works great and I used I used that for years but the thermal blankets there for a reason and you can print without it but just lately remember those collapsible swords that we got from a fellow who we we featured a bunch of times on this show well when when when I was printing on the race three d the The the the the lightsaber version right which which is long and thin. I had to do it on the race three D. because it was so tall well. I didn't have a blanket on my hawk <hes> and I for the first time in the years. I've had that race ready. The cooling was not enough heat from the hop lock was enough to distort and Sag because you know you gotta keep the walls of the shells really careful apart from each other. It didn't work so I looked at a thermal blanket for or that hot block so you have to have a thermal blanket on your hop block. If you don't want this issue do you have to have a thermal blanket on your hop lock to print now. I've I've printers that that have him printers that don't they seem to work pretty well. If you're printing things that do not have small all tool paths that is if it's a little tiny thing in the in the hot end zip and around and around and around <hes> that's problem it right. Don't have thermal. You're hovering that the big radiant heat mass right above it. It's going to stay to soften. It's all going to sag get misshapen so if you've got that if you don't have that kind of thing in your printing wide things that are large you may not need a thermal blanket of it even with thermal blanket paths like that are problematic okay so there is a solution if you don't have a thermal blanket you simply print to them right and it'll print one path and jump to the other one hitting the first one chine to have a little cooling tower or something. It's next to it yeah <hes> but these days you don't have to go with a captain and cloth you could you can use a silicon sock. Yeah those I need. Those are very neat and we're going to feature one of these as a thing of the week because somebody I'm thinking is producing moles are nice in that as you can three D. print and then you pour the heat silicon into it and you can make your own silicon socks so I got a bunch of them for the markets and I've started replacing placing all the captain based stuff and I'm putting these on instead now the negative of the silicon socks is that you can't completely cover the top of the hot block right which is not why the the thermal blanket is their thermal blankets there to protect underneath however it's nice to the have on top of a hot blocher because that stops the radiant heat from going up into the Philemon Path right yeah. It's kind of like you know we want to keep the heat just just where we want it and we go through a lot of trouble to do with thermal break tube and and <hes> you know usually some kind of heat sink or maybe even like with the Three D. got a fan blowing on the heat sink to actively cool it so having that <hes> the <hes> the thermal blanket the top is would definitely be to your advantage <hes> but yeah kind of a pain to install it so if you've got that brand new ender three and you've got an issue going on your extreme take your extruder apart. You're going to see a captain based on ceramic tape Kinda thermal blanket on there. It's going to be bright orange and shiny that things fragile and if you have to take everything apart you're going to need to replace that. It's gaskets in your car. Once you've taken the those parts apart the gaskets have to be replaced it same thing with the thermal blankets yeah it was interesting the last printer that I use that had a or last last extruder setup those that that required thermal blanket was the <hes> the diamond hot end the color mixing didn't takes three different filaments into one hot block DOC <hes> and the hot block and the nozzle are one on that so there were some people came up with systems to <hes> to wrap the whole thing and silicon but you didn't really need to do that to make it work what you did need. was you needed some kind of thermal insulation on the top of it. It had US using basically e. Three D. Heat Heat sinks but the the block the size of the diamond hot end was so big I had so much radiant heat off of it that you needed an insulating insulating layer in between it and the and the heat sinks wow so you had something that you had holes punched in and that you just screwed the the heat sinks you know through who <hes> but I actually made my own. I discovered this this you get this material. That's basically a silicone foam. <hes> it's it's like it's like sponge rubber but made out of high temperature silicone interesting they use it for like a t-shirt printing shop or something where they're using heat transfers and in oppress they need they need to press blanket that will take a couple hundred degrees of temperature and the silicone is perfect made for it very inexpensive and it's not only as it is you know the silicone itself as you the the heat barrier but the fact that it's foam means it's got air trapped inside it and it's actually really good insulator so little title thick for your Standard <hes> you know wrap around the the hot block kind of application but works really well the diamond hot interesting Doc Whitney another show written to our hard-drive waiting for encoding uploading and commitment on our feet to all of our very supportive listeners. Thank you all for your support on Patriot Dot Com and thank you fewer reviews on itunes. We do appreciate those a lot. Those make a big deal to us because the good reviews brings in new listeners and you know what I like new listener silo. I like seeing those numbers increase so thank you all for your support in both locations and hey thanks for listening. I've got a thing that we yes so this thing comes from a fellow fellow who's handle on things. Versus Brian Allison is name has also Brian Nelson really from Sheffield U._K. I never would have guessed that a- and he's put out a whole bunch of like a family of these items but I picked this one because it just looked so cool of the title of the thing is Doc deca box and he did a second version of it now <hes> there have been lots of iris boxes out there and I- responses where where the cover if you rotate parts of the box the covers open up in separate pieces and kind of interesting horizontal motion and we've had lots the lots of them out there and some of them are print in place which makes them kind of hard to print <hes> I've there was one a little while ago which we had as a thing thing of the week where it was printed in place and you really had to work at it to get it to work correctly and then once you got it working correctly because you had to make the parts of thin delicate contended to break it was like an eggshell what I like about these designs and I'm going to be printing these implying with them is that he has versions that are not prineton place. Were you basically print the pieces and put us little metal screws to put them together which will make them much much less tricky to print as well as more durable overall and in the end you know you want your your thing to be durable and you're not durable than that's not good right and you can make a move oof. <hes> <hes> a lot lot more smoothly if they're not printing place yes so the Decca box version two is thing number three three six six five six four three and if you go to Brian Allison's link on their you'll get access to all of the other <hes> <hes> boxes that are like this. I think he also has some that are printing place. Doesn't he yet yeah. There's a couple that are of different different styles files that are prenton place but he's got a huge variety of different different things purple and they are pretty neat beautiful designs. Thank thank you Brian. They are awesome so let's see if you've got a tip a question up candidate thing of the week that you'd like to let us know about don't hesitate send us an email. Send IT TO INFO FO F Three D. PRINTING TODAY DOT com. That's H. R. E. E. The letter D printing today dot com you can also post on our Google group if you've got questions or problems albums or Three D. Printer if you've got some issue that you think is worthy of discussion. We won't necessarily be the people that reply because it's a community entity out there and we sure would like you to join the community go Google Three d printing tips and tricks. You can just read if you're shy and you don't want to write or or if you want to write you have to join the group joined button and send me your email and I'll get you in right away. You can also go to our facebook Page Three D. printing today the three separate words and the number three in Three D. and you can find it. She don't have to request to join. You can post if you want to. Let's see what's coming up next week when he let's see number two ninety five or you always start talking about cooling fans and then we get into a debate about Mesh Compensation and Dan. That's the show because they're big sector

Wi D. Printing NASA Brian Allison Andy Cohen OCTA Menlo Park Europe Hamas Mr Witt Tom redwood city jeff S. L. Michael Hackney Duet Controller Board Redel Kitchenware Company
TSS175_How to build a business for exit

The Site Shed

1:06:44 hr | 2 years ago

TSS175_How to build a business for exit

"A quick shout out to Alan who. Let's say fantastic five star review on Appalachians toddler was a must for any treaty who wants to grow. And the review said, you will take something from each and every cast you'll have a few f I wish I knew that sooner moments along the way to get on it, Allan, Allan. Thank you very much for that review. Much-appreciated fox. We really do. Appreciate these reviews if you can hit across the Appalachians or Stitcher or soundcloud or Spotify or wherever you consume your podcasting media plays versus review, and I will read it out. So there's a bit of an incentive for you. Thanks, folks. Hello at least those and welcome back to another episode of to mock walks on these such podcast when met John's and today would join us for a discussion around exit strategy now, and this has been a bit of a hot topic in the group when we got a lot of listeners out there where you guys are at that stage in business, and you want to learn a little bit how you could potentially be acquired in the future side today. I have for guests on the show who is going to give you some amazing sought into that world. Not only does he takes it. He has also done it twice. And he's in the middle of doing it his third time himself. So this guy certainly knows and is qualified to be taking on this topic, MS Dacosta guy for quite a while. And he's very very educational so hype you get a lot out of it. If you do you have it if I five to share it with somebody else because the more we can spread they sort of knowledge around the the better, the whole industry is of course, I had across two options review, if you liked it that would be much appreciate it. And. If you want to continue the compensation of head across to the private Facebook group, that's the site shed private Facebook group, you can find that going to Facebook dot com forward slash groups Ford slash v sought shade or one blood and you can jump in there. You can join the scuffling, and you can make the amazing guests that we have on these shows including one from tonight. This great resources pay left behind for this, Costco. Is you can go ahead and get that through the show nights at the Sasha dot com. You can also get hold of him through the resource section of the such website, which is this. I should come forward slash resources. Anyway, that's enough. For me. Let's jump brought in and enjoy these amazing compensation on a how struck she'll business for exit strategy. Does if you guys that have been following the such podcast and inactive for a while. You know, we do in joy doing some pre de dawn cool things out. Learn and travel program has been around for a few years now, and we affectively take tried businesses his across to amazing destinations where we can either surf or skate. So the last few years we have been traveling to New Zealand bone ski and skate programs. We've been traveling to Japan earlier this year on a Scanlon program that's two thousand nineteen and then we also traveled to the mouth is for. I suffered learn in two thousand eighteen however in February of two thousand nine hundred and we are holding yet another skin lunar, and it's going to be in the lovely Farrand. Oh in Japan, and Ron I was basically up in the Hawkeye region. Which is Pat a heaven sorry for all of you guys that want to come along to that. And I thoroughly encourage you to because such cool events. Yeah. Just the best. It's a tax deductible trip. You get to go skiing surfing and amazing locations in this this time, we're heading to one of the best powder resorts on the planet. So I go is hit across to the sought shed dot com forward slash events, and you can say the link there to the upcoming event. It's limited tickets 'cause obviously we've got a secure hotels in that kind of thing. So we can take many we launched it a couple of days back. It is already filling up. So if you wanna come Lynn Carragee to get in you deposit, secured any questions, you can hit us up on the Facebook or. Heaving tidies and contractors around the globe the tools to run a modern business. You'll listening to toolbox towards from the thought shit now he's your host Matt joins. Dome. Rabin? Oh, welcome to the such focused. Thanks, matt. Nice to be here. Absolutely. All the way from Vancouver Canada. Canada a note about it will do to boot it that's part of the world spent a lot of time there. Oh, you have. Yeah. Absolutely. Fanatical scale. So I've skied BC over. That's the thing to do here. Oh, no kidding. Yeah. I love it. And we've been many guests on the show actually Canadians. We quite a big following over this. So it's good to have you crisis with your time. Yeah. We'll thanks for having me. I've had a couple of Australians on my podcast as well. So sorry to hear they understand it for a lot of your listeners. I have an interesting accent. Yeah. It's it's always funny presenting a big workshop in Las Vegas last year in like that there was some pretty deep south people there now will man, you gotta speak real funny. And I was like hang on a minute. Wait there. Exactly. So anyway, so cool Brown your from cabinet maker prophet system. And you basically work we try by businesses primarily join ary cabinet. Mike is Mike is etc. Helping them with business growth strategies that more or less on the money. That is absolutely correct. Yeah. So why don't you give us a bit of a rundown as to as to how you ended up there? I know you've you saying offline there that you've you've been associated with either in the posture the focal point training system, and Brian Tracy in that kind of thing. So it might be a bit of a background. Yeah. That's right. I mean when you tell Adrian that you were Dominic on the podcast. He's going to make sure he's got a mouthful milk. So it comes out his nose. But I've been business coaching for eighteen years now and most recently, and this is how I know Adrian is that I have a group of business coaches around the world where we work with businesses of all types and show them how to. Work smarter, not just harder. But for myself, and my own personal journey I needed to travel a lot less is affecting my family quite negatively. And so I decided to sell my position in in focal point, which is where I was partners with Brian, Tracy. And I think Brian's really well known in Australia, actually. Yeah. I don't know a little bit. He's program. But I know I know a lot of people that do that. So yeah. Yeah. People have known about it for years. There's people out there with cassettes. Right. His and now you've got listeners who are going cassette on. Yeah. Yeah. I can barely remember. So when I. Exiting focal point as we speak as we speak right now this week documents are being drawn up. But when I wanted to figure out how to reinvent myself it had to be without travel because my family's just to important to me, and I needed to keep that whole in happy. So I thought well, you know, what I've always enjoyed working with trades and very specifically I've worked with lots of different people in the finished with trades. So I decided to start a podcast and a website in this space and just continue doing my business coaching, but in a vertical I really enjoy. So that's what brought me to being cabinet maker prophet system guy. Fantastic. And tell us a little bit about the podcast. It's the podcast is one where we serve the finish would trades industry. Right. So the owners of cabinet shops architectural mill workshops people that make furniture. I read Evan done stone from over there in Australia just couple of weeks ago, and both, and you may not know this, but people who make coffins and caskets as well, anybody in the finished with trades windows, doors, all of that stuff. They get value that come to our website and podcast to learn more about the business side of. Running Sean a bit of a dead and business. Lime. Coco. And so how many episodes day by you? Don't wear it Twenty-three published. Yup. But as I was saying, so we're in right now is we're recording. We're in August. I'm published. I'm produced till December. Yeah, I've got a huge backlog of material and and more guests coming, and it's it's very exciting. And lots of questions are coming from listeners to which I love because then I could be really specific in. How I go build the next episode. Yeah. Absolutely. It's one of the things I suppose that building like a podcast that has a big once you build a community around the around the podcast, like what you've done the sought shed. You'll find many of the conversations that come out of that community will fuel the content full the podcast, which is brilliant. Because it means you can involve your listeners, and they love it. And it also means you, can you cried and content. That's actually relevant to what I want. He. Yeah. Is that what people are so active on your Facebook, pretty mild? It's one of the reasons. Yeah. I mean, the group is incredibly engaged in. And because we do evaluate if aid that we wanna he things we got people Email me every week. We have an Email that goes out every week. I got emails back when people saying I haven't it with you. It is we do this. If something hasn't popped up within the group, certainly doesn't any mouths and. House, and yeah, it's great. I mean, that's what I want to hear. And it's way to serve them. So that's why we do it wonderful. Yeah. Says a little tip foil. That's cool so radically. You're in the stage of us always exiting from focal point, which is kind of what we're talking about today. The topic of this podcast is going to be had exit yo business as its job supplies that are going to buy your business. And so I'm really curious to dive into this. Because I know we have a lot of listeners out there that are at that stage and business way, they look you they've gone through the startup growth and they're not exert strategy. So to stage, and now they're looking for options, and there's very very little content out there. I should say this very little commendable content out there anyways referral relation to disorder stuff. Watch certainly have done very little on it. I'm probably because we've just never really had. The rod guests on the show that that knows what they're talking about say thing that you're actually going through these yourself seems pretty relevant does and mine was built at a scorch marks burning. Because I as I mentioned to you in our pre interview, I've I've now exit to companies in the last fifteen years. Yeah. One of them was pretty large. It was one hundred. Million in revenue, and then this one here at focal point, we bet over two hundred business coaches all around the world, and those are pretty intricate sales. But what I learned is that I have to be bible in order to sell does that I think that makes sense at face value. Right, right. Yeah. No. I'm just saying like there were times though, that we that we fumbled it, and we weren't ready to be bought. And that's where the mistakes were or we had people throwing, you know, pretty weak offers out us just casually and chase them for six months. And just wasn't just wasn't the way to go. We put a I'm guessing it's going to be very relevant. We'll probably get into it. But when you say you go to Bob or luck, we've been putting a lot of emphasis and lightly, especially a lot we've been really doubling down on content programme system structure on how to hope guys businesses really implement systems processes that effectively replace you as the business, I know which bible. Yep. I I invite experience when you when you going in the stage of acquisition for a business, you typically go to things you buying the systems and processes that run the organization and be might be bonded out of ice. But often that MRs -sarily want to always be buying stuff. Mazzola manages all business owners. Yeah. You're buying the cash flow. I'm buying your business. And you know, when you see true entrepreneurs out there, it seems like they don't even care what they're buying. You know, they got an auto dealership and a window washing company an insurance underwriter, what are you doing those guys understand? They're buying cash flow. Streams, and that's actually one of the types of buyers is the strategic buyer. They actually pay a premium for your business. So those are the one of the three types I can get into that more. There's actually a really good visual this whole topic needs a visual. So I I have one if you if you wanna share it that lays it out just as a simple picture. And then you just draw the lines where you wanna go and that you sell to. Yeah. Right. I definitely apply set in China it so that may actually domes getting left behind some. Some Bethlehem day document, coal the three types of buys for your contract business. So hit across the Sean is seeking you'll see the you've got to get access to that. And it will also be in the racial section of the shades. So you can and grab it to. All right. So let's talk about these allusive three types of is that why business trade? Yeah. Well, actually, why don't we Scotto back? First of all who we talking to. He is this a business owner compensation. Yes. One hundred percent business owner conversation. Like, actually, what did I say this ninety nine percent business owner conversation? One percent business buyer. Cocoa sation got for the business buyer. It's an evil tool. We we don't actually want the buyers to notice like guy was a seller of the business. Snow? This is due to NAT, right? Yeah. I don't want you know, in this stuff. But it's interesting because I mean, there's a we have a lot of listeners out there that do acquaintances I've worked in companies that have acquired businesses like aggressively as well. But I mean, purchasing three roofing company a plot to plumbing companies, you know, in the spice of, you know, months in deciding adding them to do with us, I should say. Doing. So I think this is very it is relevant in. It helps us for all aspects of growing the business because whether you're going to sell or not getting it ready to sell is what gets you profitable. Gotcha. So what did I tell you what the three types of buyers, aren't we could start to pick it apart? You can you can come at it from any angle you like, and I'll I'll do my best to walk through it. So the first thing we do is. We think about it from the owners perspective of what's most important to them. And this changes over time, and it changes my life situation. But is is money the most important thing, and I can hardly hear people laughing listening to the podcast. What else what else is support? We'll time might be important. If you're going through a family situation, which might sound like a rhymes with schmo voice, or or if some kids somebody's passed away things like that break up of a partnership unit time becomes important, and then the other one that really does become important as you get older is owner involvement. And so those are components we have to take into. Count. And this is laid out much easier in the graphic that goes along with this. But the three types of buyers are the strategic buyer that's number one. And that person pays a premium for your business. They pay premium they pay you more than the actual on the books value is and the we all want that strategic that buyer, right? The second type of buyer is the entrepreneurial buyer, and this is kind of the middle of the road by or they're going to pay you what the company's worth, you know, plus or minus a little bit. But it's it's where most of us think about making the sale when we're talking about selling the family or selling internally, and there's good and bad without the good is that there's very low risk at that company isn't going to be in trouble because the people buying it already usually working there, and they just keep running it. And then the third type of buyer is the opportunistic buyer. Nigga? I don't know if you add sound effects later, but this is where you. The views. Ick. Yeah. The opportunistic buyer pays you below fair market value. Okay. There's there's pros and cons to each. Right. Okay. And so what are some examples? And if I look at say, I strategic bile so with that they somebody who's got like a side, they're a plumbing company, and I wanted to add roofing to it. And I thought hi this is a good way to double business. Let's by seven. Yeah. So they might that might be something, you know. But if you're a plumbing company, I would expect that you'd go maybe further into HVAC heating ventilation air conditioning because you're used to running on contracts, and you understand the residual recurring revenue aspect or model run. But you might also say look as a plumbing company and we're operating in in New South Wales. We want to go to Western Australia, or or different areas, you're expanding geographically so strategically you wanna buy other companies that are similar to yours in the immediate cash savings. You have as you can. And I'll say this respectfully, you can wipe out their administration. You don't need to bookkeepers receptionists. You don't need to purchasers. You can do it with one or one and a half so a strategic by looking for a way to make more with less. Okay. Gotcha. So when you say they willing often to pay a premium. Why would I be willing to pay a premium? Why wouldn't I be paying what it's worth because they know how to put nitrous oxide into your business. Okay. They know where you're running it like a shop and. They're going to run it like a company. Gotcha. Right. So they they have their buying systems. So perhaps just by buying you. They're going to increase their volume of purchasing power with a supplier and that's going to reduce their costs by two percent right there. You know, they know where the holes are and they're going to plug him. So if you're looking at side, like a classic example that everyone would be familiar with would you say like a golden example of a strategic by would bay when apple bullet bait Bates by dry. Yeah. Extend that reach. Yep. So they already had the advertising they had the the right market. That was the right brand that that even added an accelerator to they're already pretty hot brand you. So then the familial is somebody that I guess doesn't have those frameworks implies what doesn't get have that ability to I we're going to bodies and blow it up hot and just willing to grind it out. You know, they might when I started remember this was eighteen years ago. The big thing that the entrepreneurial buyer was doing which was the son buying from the dad or the family buying from the, you know, whoever they were like we're gonna add computers because it's been fighting us on this forever. Believe it or not that was the big technological advancement. So sometimes that entrepreneurial buyers just dying to take over control. So they can implement new systems and processes and ways of doing things. Okay. But they are they are usually very well known to the company or they are like a main street business. They're brought to you through a broker, and so they're gonna pay some multiple of EBITDA EBA dis earnings before interest taxes depreciation and assets. And they wanna follow the math and pay very close to what the companies actually worth y'all very different than the strategic buyer who's actually willing to pay you more to get instant geographic expansion or instant buying power or instant new market, penetration. Okay. And then from an opportune opportunities seek an opportunistic ball that would be someone that you the music budding is just looking for the low hanging fruit. Yeah, they're going to pay you less than what it's worth their very honest about it. But they're also going to pay you quickly and let you get out brought and so tragically quit off. This is where the the personal situation comes in something's happened. The person is mentally out of the game. Let's say they've gotta take care of an ageing, parent or the partners are. Having a tiff, and they're not able to get over it. Somebody else just swoops in. Yep. Right. These people are called vulture capitalists. If a reason right what the benefit is they can get you out of there. And and when you when you look at the graphic time becomes important rate in opportunistic buyer will complete deal in zero to six months. Rut, and obviously the closer to zero time the closer to lower dollars. You are because they're going to they're going to charge you for that risk like cold. Yeah. All right. So why don't we talk a little bit about a spos- as business? I know which is what we're talking to ninety nine percent. How we go about framing up the different models of the business designed for the different types of is. Yeah. So a strategic buyer is looking for a certain kind of business that they wanna buy and quite often. If you don't look, right. They're not going to buy you wrote. And what that means is you've got to have your accounting in order. You've got to have your systems and processes in place because ultimately they just wanna plug and play they wanna come in and just take over operations and know that it's going to spit out, whatever percentage, your your reporting, and you know, for trades businesses. I'm gonna say this, and it's I know it's generalizing statement. But when I say clean books. I mean real books. Yeah. Right. So I know there's a lot of cash business that goes on with trades. That's fine. No big deal there. There comes a point in time when that has to stop, and then all has to transition to to being on the books, and then because it's strategic buyer wants to buy that cash flow. I think today with the introduction of technology, and you know, programs job management mobile invoicing that kind of thing a feel like maybe not as prevalent as it was twenty years ago. What are you reckon? You know, maybe I'm I'm colored because I live in a city called Vancouver Canada that just legalized marijuana which used to be one of our biggest cottage industries, which led to a lot of twenty dollar bills. So why don't we add delicately back away from this part of the conversation? Before I get anybody. I know Trump. They're still has lots of cash business it goes on. And the point here is that you have to run your business in a way that a strategic buyer wants to see it when they look at it because they're going to have a professional accountant yet look at your books, and they are going to do a a very thorough look at it. And you wanted to be able to stand up to scrutiny because anytime it doesn't down comes the price. Yeah. Yeah. Exactly. Right. And so for the listeners out there, should we all really in the mindset of building out business that could be targeted towards the strategic, blah. Is that the dynamic? He I mean, we don't necessarily want to build a business is going to be bad. We're going to be able to sell to an opportunistic Vira. No, you don't. And you know, what the real? I think the real simple answer that you may be asking me to give you as systems anything above opportunistic by a really relies on systems. Brought once you've got really established systems and processes in place in the company runs without the owner having to to have their finger on everything you've moved up the scale already voice found maybe you should have been a lot on this. I mean, I'm sort of going through the stage at the moment why we just system Ozzy in the business started that it's just removing myself from operations in areas etcetera etcetera, and then I'm thinking to myself, I would be great, and I had a lot of people in Kutch and things side of. Yeah. Well, you want to do that. So you can sell the business it on thinking. Well, if I'm going to business it runs with that may. Even bay while they held all want to don't you sell it to yourself? I mean, really what you're doing is you're selling it in exchange for time. So that you're on the beach somewhere while for you in your case skiing somewhere, and while the company's running and you just duck in for an hour every Wednesday to make a phone call back to the shop, and and here the metrics. Right. So in that case, you're selling it to yourself. You're not always building it. So you can sell it. You're building it. So it sellable Gaucho. Right. And if you worry about your family, and I'm not should word it that way. Because I'm that implies that I'm challenging you to ask whether you worry about your family, but for myself, I want to build a business that runs without me. So then if that bus comes along, my family has something to sell right because if I have to have my finger on everything going on, and I'm taken out of the picture, then that, you know, I'm doing my my family service in the whole reason of doing this is my family. Yeah. Okay. So I'm let's talk a little bit about us phase. Well, I mean, you told me do we want to talk about the process of establishing systems framing it up. Ascertaining what needs development what needs to be built out. What we need to offload which excetera. We can. Yeah. I mean, there's there's an order of operations. There's a way to go about this in. It's it's probably something that you're very familiar with as well in your line of work. It's establishing communication and accountability within the company. Well, I mean, that's a really good point like enough found that you know, we in any business. Non non percent of problems can be eliminated through communication. Just the my it always comes down to communication downfall in experience way within staf or within the organization that's communicating things to customers or whatever it might be the end of the day. It always needs the that's where the the native Hawaii's nearly always needs to point. That's right. The humans are the problem. That's that's the takeaway message. It's there. No humans involved. This would be really easy. So then where do you start? I mean, I I mean, you always see these. Fries. Cliche. Not gonna start with the end in mind. And like a get you've got to sort of fill out any probably relate to the fact that we well. Yeah. Okay. Great. It would be great to have, you know, sell the business one day. But at the moment, I just wanna pay a Bill. Yeah. So where do we start? If you're at that stage where I wanna pay a frigging Bill. Well, I'm I'm just more interested in there's a lot of Gaza listening to this podcast right now that could successful businesses, and they're like I'd like to sell it one day at what weta wanted what I wanted to be doing what am I going to implement? How do I find that? He strategic belies way wasn't what are some action sips. You don't want. The first one is really really simple. And it's just making sure the company is lined up properly. And I think if there's only one thing that your listeners take away from this is the to answer. This question is M I selling to my perfect and ideal client, okay that everything can follow from that. Because if you're if you don't have the right client, and what I mean is, you know, every company is set up to produce a certain product or service impeccably, well, and all of our companies are different because of the machinery we have in our personalities in our market and the timing. But what is your company perfect at doing? What are you most profitable at doing? And then once you know, that understanding that taking that that offering to the market and finding the perfect client so many problems melt away, so many problems melt away in I had a couple of painting companies in my past one of the one of the best named painting companies. I had was called ladder man, home services, and I was Letterman. Was that was my superhero name, and you know, I understood my market people that were free to go up a ladder. So as I walked up to the door of the house. I look at it and go these guys need gutter cleaning, these guys need painting. These guys need window washing that, I was trying to serve all sorts of things as I walked up to the door. Instead of understanding my best most valuable work was residential repainting of two floor two story houses both. That's it. Not three story because I didn't have the ladders not power-washing because I didn't have a power washer back then not bungalows because they were too small for me to get scale. I had to do two of them in a week. And I could really only do one in a bit and the rest of the week was wasted. So, but understanding my ideal client allowed me to be more profitable to story homes residential repaint mostly would not stucco. And I ask your your listeners. What's your ideal client in are you perfectly arranged in the company to serve that person or account narrow? And so does that come back to mushrooms that conversation around like customer avatar? And yes, yeah. Who's that best Gus, but it's beyond the avatar because I think the avatar also takes into account, the behavioral style of the person, etc. But we really want to understand who's our ideal client geographically, right, need wise. I mean geography becomes a big issue when you're in a city that has any amount of traffic at all because you. You can do a plumbing job next door where you can do a plumbing job across town. And you get paid the same jobs within twelve blocks of my office than three jobs. Four jobs a day at all points all corners of the city that I'm not gonna make any money, and I'm gonna burn myself out. So let's presume for me that we're talking to people that which I'm going to be designed this heat that are established, you know, they might be turning five ten million bucks a year and a looking full and exit strategy and are the customers they've got plenty of work. What are the next ideas? It really is a really comes down to having that communications on accountability in the company, and the the less the owner is involved the more bible that business is so relying on really good meetings to run the business with really cleared. Data information is the key. And not you know, as the owner, you should be trying to go into the office last year going to do it more of a favor. And I hope you know, this is an oldie, but a goody, but the the book the EMA th revisited it. Is one of the best books ever. So if anybody needs a book to read even in the bathroom, she get that one. Yeah. Muko gaba. Michael Bairbre, the myth revisited sorry when we talk about plus the still having to that a little bit more great matings indata. What are some of the metrics and some of the Dada that you measure at you know, that sort of macro level when you add in a business that's looking for exit. Well, again, it's different for every company. Right ev-, every company wants to look at something a little bit different. But it still comes down to a couple of things you want to start at the top of the funnel and start to understand things down from there. So just roughly in this won't apply to every business. But imagine you're looking at a white board. And all it says on it is five five categories. Number of bids were waiting to hear back on. Number of jobs. We sold this month number of jobs in production. Our cash flow receivables in the next thirty sixty ninety days, and let's say number of open deficiencies, so that we know which jobs aren't closed or where we've got customers shoes. And I just picked those five off the top of my head. That's a great place to start though. But you magin if you had a meeting once or twice a week with your team just to talk about those issues. Yeah. Right. And it was on the board for everybody to see. Gotcha. We interrupt this podcast today to talk to you very quickly about trading web gauze content creation program that program has been designed specifically tried by s- organizations as a why that you guys as tried business on Ken Stott, creating content that enables you to engage with your customers, and you'll potential customers it will enable you to build trust and build Ripoll because what you're doing is. You're investing in educating them. Biggest problem that we see we've customers today is not regularly updating that web sites, and that's a problem because first of all the such engines looking for that and second of all potential customers also can for try to whip gauze content crash program has been specifically designed to help you get regular relevant content on your web select consistently every month. We know that a tie when you're at the on the tools, and we know that sometimes you don't always have the time to be able to do these things yourself. So we're hiking it off your hands foia. It's a service that we're off. 'ring ugo. I wanna make sure that you're getting these Donna because we know how important it is. Anyway, hit across to try to web goes don't call Dodi you forward slash content. Filling the full and one of our representatives will come back to you. Another. There's been this is sort of a revelation that you know, I had earlier in in the diet lucky. You can get caught up tracking the wrong things you li-. Well, how much money have we might this way? How much it always comes back to all worked and companies as well. Where did I do a monthly review? All you might this much money. We might as much money. It's not enough. And it was just it just seems so stupid to be reviewing that. As a metric when the reality behind, the whole scenario is like, you're only selling to the Amana leads that you're getting so what kind of leads are we getting what kind of impressions are we getting how many, but where's that coming from lucky? I never really understood the like all the stupid thing when you comparing like, okay next month, Nick sees full costs against last useful costs. But nothing else is changing within the organization. That's just expected that the number's going to increase like I just feel like people just get so caught up with the wrong shit. Yeah. So first of all, I'm glad they're thinking about it. You know, coming to the realization that we might be looking at the wrong number is in itself valuable. Thing. But what is the right number comes down to something we call critical constraints. So take here's what I'm going to ask your listeners to go buy themselves a Cup of coffee, not a beer because I takes you in a different direction. But leave the office we don't drink beer and a or anyway, not at all. No, you guys are known for your ability. Yeah. But go buy yourself a coffee alone. Leave the office. Just take a pad of paper and pen. And think about what's the most recurring problem. You have in your company, you're not here to place blame on anyone person. But where is that problem where are you spending? Most of your time fixing issues that's a constraint or a critical constraint. It's the chokepoint in your company think about that thing. And then think about the numbers that affected and you'll you'll find your answer. Yeah. Go and in your as you're right. It's the top of the funnel. If it's if it's leads there's no use worrying about number of customers, unless you know, how many leads you've got in. What your conversion rate is rut, right? Because a number of customers is an output. You can't do anything to get more customers. You what you can do is? You can get more qualified leads and you can do a better job of selling to them or putting them on a maintenance program. And then you have more customers, and you can't do anything about revenue, but we all worry about it. Well, what you can do is you can take your number of customers. And thank well. How many times do I sell to those people and how much do I sell to them every time? Time. I make a transaction that gives me revenue a revenue in itself is just an outcome. It's a focusing on the wrong outcomes are focusing on the outcomes as the wrong place to worry, you're gonna focus on the end puts a lock it. Okay. Cool. So for all the listeners out, they are spies as as as a general framework that when we spoke out in understand what you're critical construction actually kind of reminds me friend and colleague, Yvonne, die from Jennings from Melvin SEO and system hub. Hey, I'm actually he helps Marco lawn cheese. Recent book, very successfully a wide. Now, he's got something needs system for what she calls critical clot flow. And it's affecting what you just said as far as maybe by mapped out a little bit differently. But it's what you you look at as far as the journey of your customer, and then you establish this the critical the critical Chinese ice. Okay. What is your I suppose? When you break it down into products or services like I got if you'll delivering a furniture product. There is a client critical client flow towards that might up of a series of steps. And then those are the steps that you they stop system ause ING, primarily otherwise you can get caught up system using things that I really make any difference. Right. How we order. Staples. Right. Exactly. And I had pick up the mile white. Really? Okay. You got to click and make it up. It's not. Yeah. I think it's kind of on a similar path. What you would just sign. The sounds like all right cool. So I'm saying credible constraints. They once you've been understanding goes credit constraints. You can then start what repairing them must buys just picking. You know, this is the other thing that we don't do. As owners is give ourselves the on and say, we're not easy enough on herself to say, I can only fix one thing at a time. So just do one thing at don't do them. All and by the way, I'm guilty of this. I want fixed right now. Yep. Yep. Is it an amazing like when you do apply yourself to one thing? Like, all right. If you've had in the Pomodoro technique, you know, the twenty five on five hundred off so the thing. Yeah. So at least as familiar with it is a talion for tomato, and it's affectively a time, and then every twenty five twenty five minute blocks, and you have a five minute break. Now, all of a sudden it really follow it strictly as I probably should. But the principle behind it is within that twenty five minutes, you apply self to one specific task. And you focus on that only and you tunnel unification's off. It's a phone call John Ray miles, you just work on that one thing. You'll be freaking amazed at how much productive work. You can get done when you just focus on the one thing. Yeah. It's incredible. And especially when you're talking about problem solving. If you really want him, not go down and get to the bottom of something just turn everything off for a Diane folks from that one thing at the end of the diet, you more likely to have a solution or ride map get you out of the pickle. It's just when we're focused on too many things a beagle. Can only chase one bunny at a time. Oh, so you got you ozzy's think you have all the great sayings. We've got some great ones up here in Canada. Right. I guess guys. Frasier. Cricket on Canaccord. But a beagle. Can only chase one bunny at a time. And there's reason for that. Because the beagle is focused and he could chase that bunny until he gets the bunny. You can't chase small and it's the same with us. Okay. Cool. So I mean, that's the first fantasize like we've gone through understanding the client with for the internal communications. And. Yeah. And getting getting understanding of your metrics. Obviously sounds obvious. But it's so not obvious understanding what you constraints and you bottleneck saw because then you can Bill back from there. And then what else wanted to debate to prepare myself for somebody who's gonna come along and bomb obviousness as a strategic Baugh? You know? I think my answer. My first answer is do it. And then hearing you repeat the steps back. It occurred to me that what I actually have to do is a half to impress on my team. How important it is to do this? Even when I'm not there. Right. So if I don't take it seriously, they won't take it seriously. And so it takes a little bit to get this ball rolling. But we have it's the discipline. That's required for that excellence. And that excellence can come through in more time for you as an owner more profit for you as an owner or somebody buying you. If that's what you want. But if we don't take it seriously, then you know, what happens with the team and like all the boss read another book this week. Okay. Let's wait sleep. Forget about it. No. You've got to focus on it and commit to it almost with fervor like religiously. And so they know this is how we do it here. And that in itself is a system. Gotcha. Gotcha. And a lot of these things. But especially we're talking about metrics, and that kind of stuff what of it can be like relatively automated. Yeah. The numbers should be simple. Yeah. It shouldn't be complex numbers at all. Like I systems. And like, yeah. I mean, I get it. So I had a you get all of that stuff above to Ron without you necessarily being the one to run it on my body. Darren who's on these podcast recently. He's he runs a kitchen cabinet tree business in Sydney here. So he's probably gonna be very interested in yourself fit on. He's he's basically got his business to a point where he now lives I've assays and he goes skiing in the air in the in the winter. And then he sells around took in the summer. And then these that's the result of thing systems and processes, but he's teamed runs that he's team bronze is meetings. But again, I guess that's that comes as a result of having that rut framework and responsibilities device role. Responsibilities implies and then having systems that are built around that. So they can deliver on those things consistently without him having to be the right? That's it. As a result of exactly how you said. It's because he put that. Discipline in the beginning that he can do that now. So what how does that look Wade we've been talking a lot recently about Oganization structure and putting into businesses that depatment structure, so you've, you know, you've got the business Barkan down and within the departments you've got roles, and then within the Rawls, you've got responsibilities than it'd be delivered on the neck of saw, etc. Etc. Is that really the starting point? Yeah. It is. Yeah. It's it's really no more complex than that. It's the hard part is keeping it simple. It's easy to make located right there, easy because off found of light like that's been the biggest revelation, and you know, like, you can read these things, and you cannot people will tell you this stuff over and over and over again man one diets like holy shit. Why don't we just do this? We'll do that for years. But it's just you know, when something becomes like all of a sudden, you know, and this is going to sound self serving and it, but I don't want it to. So it's still valuable enough for me to say that I'm gonna get past that. It's it's I I read fitness books, but I don't work out. Right unless I've got a trainer there. Right. And it it's the very same thing. Find somebody you can work with you know, somebody that's trained in has the right intent as your coach or your mentor. Your adviser whatever it is. But find that person who understands your goal is gonna help you work towards that. Because it's just like having a personal trainer at the gym. You'll get your best results when you have a trainer if you sent your kids off to school and the head of the school said, listen, we're not gonna we're not gonna be teachers in the class this week, the kids should be okay. He flipped your lid. Right. And at the same time if you sat down I understand you like baseball, Matt. Oh, yeah. So let's say your favorite team took to the field. And you're sitting there, he just crack your favorite beverage, you sit back and the announcer says and this week unbelievably the team has taken to the field without a coaching staff. What would you say of? Oh, yeah. No beer. So it's the same thing here, though, is is if you're a business owner who really wants to make these changes find somebody that you enjoy working with they can help you make these changes. Yeah. Plus fires as well. The. It's funny, you know, like and coaching can come in a lot of foams. And like other recently, I I have experienced this on Sunday cash strapped, my personal and professional life way. Like, I've just gone through recently office of Ray raid, one of my colleagues and friends and regular guests on the podcast. Al Levy, the seven pal contractor, and I'll just re his book and this second round. It's absolutely blind. My socks off and like I'm flicking through it right now. And it's just like full of hotline of dogging Tigers and pained like the form of a coach can come in many different ways. It could be a podcast. It could be a book. It could be a one on one coaching program. It could be a number of different things. But the point is there's a lot of stuff out there. You just gotta go get your hands on it. Yeah. And I think to your point it should be from multiple rods players. You should be open to learning. Not not close to it. I similar experience with Verne Harnish his book mastering the Rockefeller habits. The first time I read it. I didn't get it. Didn't get it at all. All and then the second time, I read it. I thought this is the greatest book I've ever read. What happened was the first guy? I just but I didn't get it at all. And it took two times to understand it. And that's actually the framework that, you know, people use for strategic finding is that book can it's really solid. Yeah. Well, suppose if you've ever to fry many business models off anyone it might as well be the Rockefeller. Exactly. Yeah. It is. And I think sometimes it's business on is. Well, nothing someone that wanted to be the big mistakes a lot of business. Sign is Mike is I don't write books for one. And then I'll think the second mistake by probably Mikey's. I might not be willing to revisit a book by soft and that experience the fest. Anamar Ray like something else out of it. Just do every time, you know, that it can be difficult the imagine, and I agree with you. But I think there's a way around it in podcast like this are the way around it. You know, a university courses something like thirty hours of education, thirty hours, if a business owner switches their activities their behaviors and listens to podcasts on the drive to work. So in our let's say, let's just round it to an hour every day. So when our indoor half hour into work a half are outs. You're listening to an hour a day in less than a month. You can have as much university educate as your kids are getting any university course. Yup. And it's it's free. I mean, downloading your podcast with great information and fantastic guests. But but in obviously, not just this podcast. Any of them are audiobooks. The knowledge is out there and knowledge is the currency of the new economy. It doesn't matter what your trade is. It's knowledge that will take you about everybody else because everybody's got the same tools. Exactly. Why wouldn't you wanna? Tone. You your car or your truck into a university? Amid it just makes sense when you're listening to talk back radio and commercials. I mean, come on. I call it burp firt radio. I don't wanna listen to the morning show jokes anymore on. I don't want to listen to Drake my kids. Listen to that stuff. My stuff is boring, but my stuff so pays for the gas and the car, exactly. So you will listen to it. You will like it and that's daddy's auto. I couldn't agree. I mean, I couldn't agree more. There's you know, there's nothing better than jumping a kind missing to me. I apologize. The about me. Let's talk about. Oracle. So we've gone through that as you say, I let's let's make sure that you can deliver on all of those things in a wife the tame can execute that. And you don't have to be the one doing which comes as a result of six systems frameworks, and then of course, training, right? Like, I think this is another thing seven this conversation yesterday with one of my one of my businesses, go is it's great. If you you know, doing these recording these chew Tourelles, but if you don't putting it into a framework which whipped PayPal can go back to and I can actually find it. Then what's the point? It just gets lost in the myriad of content that we create by internally and externally. So how does the training process looked online Hattie Mike show that people off on the processes keeping them up? Dieted gum, Mike, keeping them relevant yet. You mean, how do I train my support team to rotate? Apply season. Yeah, they replaced me. Exactly. Well, the first thing we start with is quite often. There's resistance from the owners like well. I don't want to train my guys what if I train them, and they leave and the the answer in a half to say it without sounding smug is what if you don't train them in. They stay. Which one is worse. But it in reality people want to be on a winning team. And if your team is providing education, and and you really are bought into this system. It's a better place to work. So look for trainers or do the training yourself or bring in a trainer on specific things that help the big question you've got. So if the question right now is lead flow like bringing a new leads. There's a ton of companies that are willing to come in and talk about social media marketing to your team at a lunch and learn and they'll probably pay for the lunch. It doesn't mean you're going to sign with those people, but they'll do free workshops all day long. So bring them in and educate your team and your team is the better for it. You'll get great ideas. And again, wherever you're constraint is let's say it's on the manufacturing process. I said the manufacturing floor 'cause my listeners are cabinet makers architecture Bill workers, but you know, if you've got field staff, there are lean manufacturing experts or safety people that can talk to our team and just make the company better. And do you deliver that sort of thing on like? Structured frequency is it lie. Well, it's the the Friday of the month today. We're going to be doing a, you know internal toolbox. Tolkien a workshop on the. Yeah. Yeah. Well, you see so you you automatically went to how to systematize this. How do I do it on a regular eating basis? The if I can go back another level. I'm going to get a big geeky on your here. But the system that you just introduce there is something called a block schedule or a default diary, and that is the tool of a multi business entrepreneur. Right. Having you lay out your week at a glance that has all the days in all the hours listed, and you know, that every Tuesday at two you're doing your your management meeting and every Wednesday at one you're doing your finance forecast meeting. And it's every week at that time your team gets trained that that's the system we follow here. And so it is is that like a physical calendar that everyone can say typically, it is part of the training would be all part of the training. But the expectation I mean, initially that process would be I it's your job to check these calendar. Dial you need to know what's happening in that calendar every day, and we always know that Wednesday at one is the financial forecast meeting rut, graded in it. It's just part of the company to the point that if that meeting gets missed people feel a little bit let down by the company, and that's what you want. Now the team is bought into the system. Right. So the first person that has to buy into the default diary is the owner. Yup. And then they've got a they've got a teach and train there. People on the importance of it and get them using it as well. It's a very simple tool super effective, and you see simply once you've gone to it. You can't run a business without it. Because otherwise, you're always reactive. I think you've subtly stepped on extremely relevant stunned, which is, you know, the fish routes from the head down like if you as a business owner or the later is not going to be willing to fly the flag for this new movement. Then you can't expect you tend to forget it your if you don't care about safety your team won't care about safety. If you don't care about drug use in the workplace your team won't care about it. If you don't care about time management. Neither will your team. Yeah. All right, cool. So now, we've got that implies we've gone through. We've tracked down metrics. We've got a critical constraints down, we've got structured training delivery based around that block schedule and the United calendars and the mating structure, and that kalona thing what else am I looking at. You know, what it that? You're really there. Once you have that kind of discipline in the business rinsed, repeat, right? It's it doesn't have to be. Flex its just find the systems that work set, your regular recurring meetings know, what numbers are going to talk about at those meetings. And then run the meeting affectively hope you don't mind I've got another download it's actually one of the most popular downloads on my site. It's called how to run the finance and forecast meeting who and it's got the agenda and the script. So the owner has everything there you just handed up to your team and even has a script for what to go through. But once you have those regular meetings, people know what to expect just keep rinsing, and repeating and that's the consistency. That we want to bring to the team, isn't it funny? So literally in the last wake because we've got seventy matings within the different businesses and things like that are reached out to well. And again as always signed before of just rating for this book, and I came to this part of the book, which I literally did not even see last time. I read it like it was like picked up an entirely new book, and it was like holy shit. Like there's a whole section right here. In front of me on what Al calls. He's mating manifesto. And it's basically how to structure like matings and on Thursday. I'm recording a podcast with him on. He's meeting manifest. I like he's a random, and I go dude did add this to this book. That's been sitting on my shelf. The like the less. He's like, oh, jeez. You're so young and dumb, you know. And then he sent me through all the stuff, you know. And always like this is incredible. So off the back of winning created this this meeting framework document, the document which I'm going to be sharing without whole audience. Anyone can get access to that by Stoff as far as my experience of the matings assigned. Absolutely just becoming like a complete waste of frequent time to the point now where they're completely structured. They admitted that documented like this everyone's buying into him. It's just it's it's been it's been a complete revelation. So I would love to say you'll have to run the finance and forecast mating framework. I'll I'll include it for you to put in your show notes, but it's also on my site. And that's that's just the keyword run. It. A people seem to like script. So I I include scripts with a lot of the things that I do. And that doesn't mean to have to follow my scrimped throws my jokes. I burn the bad jokes right in there. And then you've got all that work to get the back out. The you know, what I like that in listening to you is that you are very open about being both a a student teacher. Oh, you're gone into that stuff. I did not know this is why I have people like yourselves on the show because I don't know shit. Well, I don't want to tell you this out loud because you might be recording it, but neither do I. But it's constant learning. I think where I have run into problems with people that I've worked with is. When they've said, I'm done learning. I'm just going to teach rut, and I do the best with my clients when I start with. I don't know the answer to this. Yup. I don't know. But we're going to figure it out. Here's what you know. And then we we have a process with system for for hacking apart a problem, but it's impossible for any of us to have every answered everything. It's like that. It's like that. All all. Yeah. Personal development. I remember doing that. So. All right. My friend and mentor in a business associate now paid a call ladyship Gunar. He's always said John's e postal developments like showering might you just do it once. That's very good, actually. All right, cool. Now that we sort of us FIS we've got around to saying that, and we just basically type that we rinse and repeat having do we go about finding people might be potential Boswell. How we pitch it. Or how do we get it out there? What's what's that about? So that that is very interesting because if you want that strategic buyer, or if you want that entrepreneurial buyer if heaven forbid, you want the opportunistic buyer knowing what you when the creature you've built is best. And if you're in that world, let's just use the strategic buyer because that's the one that pays above fair market value. You know, you would know and when you look at the graphic you'll understand it actually takes a lot longer to close a deal with them in. It's it's a longer process to sell to them, of course. But then you've got something if you do want to go through a broker there's brokers out there L understand the value and be able to market you that much better. But the other thing that'll be happening is you'll be popping up on lists. Right. The top plumbing company in Sydney, and somebody's going to see that from Adelaide, and they're gonna go did I pronounce that? Right. Did actually. Melvin did. I say Melvin right? You did sign open raw that's very rare for North America. Missed only melborn your melborn dang. It. Gotta go to mobile, and he was let's say one of those other cities they're going to see that list, and guess what they're going to come knocking, and or you're going to get a phone call from their broker their accountant says, hey, you know, Fred's in town. He really liked to have a coffee, and you're just you're just flying in a different group. That's on the strategic side on the side. If you want to sell it to your kids, just as as a as a, you know, that's the most common thing in the entrepreneurial side, especially a trades is I want my son or my nephew, my niece's to take over this business. Then we have to have something that sellable to them in there. They have to understand that process. But we know that when we handed over to them they're able to keep the cash flow going to pay us. Gotcha. Sorry in that scenario. Would it be sort of? Yeah. I take over the business. But then on taking a percentage until it's tied all that kind of that works as opposed to give me a million bucks. So there's a million things. I'll tell you one of the one of the the highlights or one of the first wins in coaching. We call this easy wins early. And I mentioned before Adrian fitting, Ian, I know each other Adrian would recognize this from our training, one of the first easy wins that you can introduce to a business owner is to ask them whether they own their real estate or rent it or lease it. Okay. And the it's easy to lease. It's easy to rent. The problem is when you pay that first dollar in that first month if you own that place, that's the most expensive month you'll ever be there. Because now you've paid down principle in interest a little bit, right? It's going to decrease over time. And you have that asset that acid is separate than the business. Okay. When you go to sell the business, you can now stay the landlord and sell the business. Gotcha. Lease or rent your space every month that you pay. Your rent is always the most expensive month. Is it never changes? You just pay that money to stay in a hotel, which is called your office in your shop for the month. But you don't get any value other than time spent so you're actually not advancing. So there were thinking strategically about how to invest our money, and it can be difficult in some markets. The prices of real estate are insane. You also have to think about what the long term future is. So once you've done that you can when you sell it to your kids or somebody else, you can keep the real estate and stay the landlord. Right. That's one particular strategy coach. Oh, interesting. Okay. So I mean, I like how do you pop up on the right houses FIS is what I'm saying? Like, if you've got you've got a business it's going to be structure and stuffing plice man that doesn't necessarily main that the potential barred Atalaya it's going to be like, oh, I'm this looking at my system, log air. And apparently, I've got good ones. While had you. Well, you you will show up on those things because once you start to if you ever heard the saying that that you're most like the five people you hang out with. Royal nights the same for me. And it's the same for you. And it'll be the same for your business when you start to run at a different level, you'll start to hang out, quote, unquote. With other businesses, you'll go to different trainings, you'll go to different events and you'll meet people you'll get asked to sit on boards. You'll get asked us just not formally on boards. If that unless that's what you want. But you'll just be out there. You know, your vendors will know who you are. And that vendor is selling their their supplies to you. And they're selling them to that big company in Adelaide to and he is going to that your ideal buyers taken that company over dinner saying look, we want to expand Sydney who are your top companies there. What you really want is for that the owner of that that supplier to say, you gotta go meet Matt this guy is dialed in that. Thank turns out, nothing but cash and your problem with buying for that is he's never around. You're gonna have to go to France to beat them on the slopes. Okay. Now, that's a company I wanna buy right? Hukou. Real spy is really. Weekly the whole dynamic. He is getting back to that initial framework. Right. Because there's no point in even talking about who might wanna Bata company until we have something that's built the vital to the level. An expectation of something that I would wanna purchase. Yeah. Exactly. We don't need to know who the buyer is. I just know there's my ideal purchaser is a strategic purchaser just like if I'm running a cabinet shop. I don't need to know who my next deal is. I just need to know that my ideal client is a residential home over ten thousand square feet in that neighborhood, or it's a commercial improvement in a law firm. What whatever my ideal client is. It's the same thing. We're applying here to the types of buyers so domino. When you're on your heat. They will say you go to begin with the end in mind, you've got to stop. We've the end goal. What is that in goal is that relevant or is that just all smoke and mirrors? Now, it's one hundred percent relevant. And so then once you've got that idea. So okay, cool. Well, I'm staying with anymore I want so my business to a submit. It might be a building company cabinet company. Someone some of the locks within the next ten years in order to do that on a reverse engineer. What that's gonna look like that journey on have a systems implies Alcott bay. He ended to be scanning on the slides, France, blah, blah, then and then build it backwards. Yeah. You just don't do that. You're taking away my life livelihood made my job so easy. No. That's exactly it. Yeah. That's exactly reverse engineering. And I do I have another minute Manua. Thumb different. All right. So this is a story that Brian Tracy told me because I've had many conversations with Brian over dinner as well, as you know, on stage and things like that. And and Brian tells this story, and I don't know where the story comes from. But I've heard Brian about this young lady who wanted more in her life in went her family had provided and she made a conscious decision. She said Kay now. It's time for me to find the right husband. And so she said I'm going to go to a church on another. I'm gonna go to church in the nice part of town because she was not from the nice part of town. When I go to church, I'm going to join. The choir. So I can meet other people there. And of course, what happens. She goes to a church in a more affluent part of town, and she joins the choir. And there's a young man who also is in the choir. And he's from the affluent part of town. And she she crafted that change in her life to change her outcome because it wasn't going the way that she originally wanted. And you know, that's a story on the social side. But it's exactly the same for us. Here is aimed for what you want. It's this is your life. You can have anything you want as long as you ask for it. We would call that. I've really clever golddigger. Yeah. I'd call it that too. I call it that too. But I tell you what my job is to make the story. Stay. Women. You know, what somebody in the audience is listening going is that what Christine did to me you give me I used to data. I know. I know. Yeah. Yeah. Okay. Interesting. All right. We'll man I think that's been pretty good. Is there anything that? You think we've missed or anything. You wanna I suppose cover a phone or add to you know, what there is one thing. You just made me think of that. And it's this phrase that won't work here got one I want people to remember. I mean for for your listeners the bulk of your listeners in Australia Browns in New Zealand and the South Pacific area. It might be obvious. But I'm not from Australia. I don't live there. I don't I'm not even that right now did anything I say not make sense over. There was pretty relevant of of. I mean, maybe I'm boss because I I listen to all of this stuff but same pretty yeah. That that's the point. And and the the comments you making back apply here where I live in in Vancouver indefinitely in the United States in. I've done business. Like this all over the world. The reason I asked that question is because so often the resistance that we hear from a business owner doesn't matter the business says, but you don't understand. Oh, yeah. Yeah. On with you. Yep. And that is just be s it will work here. What isn't working is? Yeah. That he Sifi. It's and this is actually it was one of the reasons why because we were talking about systems in removing yourself from uprisings and all this kind of stuff. Oh, I had I had my money Darren on the shark because like the best way to dispel o defuse. An argument is to put someone who's done exactly that in a spot and say, well, yet works I've done it like avenues. I know. It doesn't work if someone's done it in a sorry could not agree more. And he these bullshit, Diane. Diane from sign that like, I've got one might especially. And he's just like he will not listen these dine on a stand my business. He's sorry may and I'm white, man. It always will be until you change your mind. It's up to you. You know? So it's completely up to you. I'm really no I had that as I said I had ever done stone on and and he's from Australia. Evan. I'm so sorry that I cannot remember what city you're in. He's in Queen bay and most South Wales slammed in. Yeah. Jesus. That's unfortunate. Grew on on a side for your listeners. That are. I'm says Queanbeyan was at one point until I bandit, though, I banned the fireworks. Anyway, it was the firework capital of strike, but it was also the poll and capital of Australia and I'll finish shorts. Still is the porn capital of Australia. Not come up in our meeting. You told us a conversation to talk to you about. Now, I'm gonna tell him that now, but his podcast is is one of the top ten. His is number six, and he's been only been posted on my podcast for a couple of weeks. So people are, you know, the people that are out there listening for new ideas understand that it will work your I just have to figure out how I can make it work here now. Absolutely. And I think to be a thank, you know, when when you talk about different markets, and the reason that we love getting people from alive the world on the podcast is because it does give a different perspective, the Tali relevant, and you can argue that until you're blue in the face. But the bottom line is, you know, the end of the day, although we might be living in different countries. The principles that help us run successful businesses, very similar if not identical identical. Yeah. I've had the fortune to do this all around the world and train coaches all around the world and through that I hear business stories from everywhere, and the only places it doesn't work as. Crazy places like Venezuela where where it's just a gong show. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, I would imagine in a lot of cases even that the the principles our problem with similar, but then the the red type and Huggies. Yes. Dictatorship gets away a little problems on the way. Luckily, not to be have to experience where we live. But anyway. Don't. Thank you, Tom. And it's been awesome. It has been great injury. Thank you so much. It's been the best one. I've done all day. And I'm really looking forward to the next one. So I don't retain from cabinet mica profit system where can people get haughty might you know, what right there at the website cabinet maker profit system dot com or on the podcast. Of course, I'm on Facebook in all sorts of social media that I don't even run. So when you when you respond there, my assistant will forward it to me right away. Any questions at all any at all. I'd love to hear from people in L anything. I could forward or help with let me know. Yeah. Cool. So that does happen. I won't you. You've got to be very careful when you give off is like that too shrines because they will very often take you up on where I found that North Americans don't often a prime example is that was when I lived in Colorado, and we had these guests come to the hotel from San Diego in California. And I think the fly by common I come into the bar. Every dials working in the body. And we had a great time. And I always said, listen if you ever come to San Diego, be sure to look up his give us a call. And you come stay with us as I sure enough space as catchment end. And I thought I'm going to get those. Now rank slide ios like my I don't remember. Always you tender and Aspen. Oh my God. What happened you? Okay. I'm like. Yep. Coming up. She's like what? We were sleeping in the spare room could find out. Why not write it this any this is your life? You've asked for anything you want. Right. Exactly. So I just say, no. So look any of you out there. If you have any questions around that hall had a sell your views or physi-, any pot of that framework that you want sure about he wanted clarification, I maintenance push some comments wherever you sent his coming across you'll channels whether that social media might be in an Email or you can even slave comment. If you wanted in on one of the oxygen stitches, soundcloud, whatever that is, and I will endeavour to get Dom back to answer that I will be pricing links to all of his podcasts, and those resources that he's gonna leave behind within the shy nights. And also, the retail section of the such shed website. So you're gonna head to the Sasha dot com to get hold of that stuff. And. Yeah, management gripes. I thanks very much Utah once again, much appreciated and minute we really before to collaborating in the future. Yeah. I as well. Thank you. Thanks, everybody. Rock and roll. Thank you for listening to another episode of toolbox talks. If you locking what you hit and you can hit across to the shade dot com where you can join our community by signing up to out toolbox talks. You'll get sent I wake -ly notification, which is basically a high lot of everything that we've spoken about joining that wake alone with any other industry news that may be relevant. Oh specific to the triads. If you're enjoying the shot, you can hit across to achieve stitch. Oh, all soundcloud. What you can leave us a review that would be fantastic and all the reviews get right out in the shower. Likewise, if you have any friends, I'll call eggs that you think would benefit from this show in the episodes that we create and plays. Go ahead and share it with them.

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EnneaSummer2020: Fives

That Sounds Fun with Annie F. Downs

1:18:02 hr | 9 months ago

EnneaSummer2020: Fives

"Hi, France welcome to another episode of that. Sounds Fun I'm your host any F- downs of so happy to be here with you today. Happy Thursday, as you may know, we are coming around the been the last three episodes of our special summer series called any summer twenty twenty. Any agreement is a tool. We love around here to help us. Know ourselves better and love our people better. It's just a tool one of many that can help with personal growth, but when that we find really interesting and helpful here at that sounds fine. It has been such a joy and an honor, and just a real treat to hear your feedback so far on the first six of the nine shows hearing your thoughts about the different numbers in your connection with their experiences. Just it just means the world to me so I'm so grateful y'all have enjoyed them so far. And today I. Think you'll as well other show today are. Fives and the music in the background is from our good buddy. Ryan O'Neal better known as sleeping last. He's created a song for each type. And what you're hearing now is the. Five, Song so make sure you had to spotify apple music to hear the whole thing including the lyrics, it will really add to your experience and deepen your knowledge of fives. It's really beautiful. This year are any agreement. Five are Winston and Haley are eighty five shows always blow me away with wet fives, no and share and today that is true to Haley or newer friends Winston is like family to me and just add very close friends, so this was fun to see them. Meet each other and here both of their perspectives river. We do have an agreement five show from any. Any a summer twenty nineteen with my friends goose emily, if you want to go back and hear that one as well, but before we meet and get to know Winston and Haley our buddy, Seth Abraham y'all Adore Him I. Get it me, too. He's our ideogram expert and host of the Fathoms podcast. He's going to give us a quick view of what we should know about the fives. All right. Seth, welcome back. Let's talk about any of them five. They are some of my favorites. Let's go tell me Gimme kind of a fly over on five's, so any type five is the point in any game that represents the thinking mind's capacity for wisdom and understanding and deep, knowing actually in sort of this mental discovery. If. You will so people with Julia with type five. They really have this natural ability to able to think through things and discover new ideas, and there there's often this sort of intellectual curiosity that they use their mind illuminate. They want to eliminate the thing behind the thing to figure out how it works. Yeah, so five, zero cerebral, and their perceptive and their inventive, and this is really one of their big gifts they offer. The world is sort of this mental. This heavy mental lifting of mining for deeper truths like E. EQUALS MC squared right. You know I don't know if we would have that if we didn't have five dollars right, so you know at their best with their really generous hearts when they're at their best, you know they they invite us into wisdom, but the issue for fives comes when they start to feel like they're losing contact with this innate gift of wisdom and so. They've got to recreate an and It and they do this by amassing more and more information and knowledge, because then they start to see the world in light of strictly observing and thinking about things, and this means they're disconnecting from any real contact with the physical and emotional contact with the world. And when you, when you disconnect with the from the contact with the well, you really need your heart and you need your body to ground. informing what you just know, right so the funny thing is if you leave your body, you leave the energy that you need to be in the world. Right as for were physical. See so you start to withhold and themselves in Julie don't have as great of a ability to live life. You know this lived experience. SINOLOGIST, power and knowledge is how they feel safe and other contribute in the world, which is great, but it can be really difficult for them to to not know into. Admit that because this is how they belong in the world is they belong by offering what they know? And so they start to believe this this condition story of the world's invasive, and it demands too much of me and I've got a limit myself and my resources in my energy and you know they start to substitute feelings for an elliptical knowledge. And really let's expensive. Oh, my gosh souls yeah, because emotions are endless. I don't know how to figure out emotions. Yeah, Seattle, they begin to withdraw into the safety of their mind or their mind palace yeah? Yeah so so ultimately motivated by this need to feel capable and mentally competent and gathered knowledge. Avoid scarcity. Yeah, so why do we need? In our lives, yeah, I, think they really inspire us with their original thinking. Yeah, their vision. It's they can be quite eccentric and we. We really need that it's. It's tricky based on the the culture. You live in but man. There's something prophetic about them I really believe. Also I think five skin sort of be your resident expert. You know they tend to have like this body of knowledge and nobody else knows about like our mutual friend Jason Have I've called so many times that I could be because I have no, he's done all the reading up on something some philosophical idea whatever and I could buy a book and read up on it, and like I usually do, or I could just get five minute. Spark Nazi No. Yes. Yes, right also think they offer objectivity. Like when I'm in this heated place that I can't figure out like. Last year a friend called me and say hey. You want to go to onsite tomorrow and I said. Yes how to figure this out so last minute all response. Ability in the world and so I called my buddy Jason, and he had so much objectivity to help me figure out how to make a choice. Yeah, yeah, why does the world need fives? Innovation and in business again I think of of Albert Einstein. but I also think this benefit of going slow. They need to process. They need to think through things. They need to make sure they're ready to be in the world after they're confident about what they know. So they go slow. That's a really good thing, but also think of solitude. Solitude is vital. Blaise Pascal, who says all all of our issues stemming from our inability to sit quietly alone in a room. And, so they're the best sitting quietly alone in a room, it can be isolation you know for unhealthy fives, but solitude man. Yeah, what should we listen for in this conversation with went, said Haley not all five super intellectual, but you might hear that. Content focused I. Think in also factual. Analytical and Even sometimes. Literal like I'll say something and I I didn't actually mean literal, but for some reason you're hanging by. The other really careful about choosing the words they really are sometimes. They're a bit void of emotional content. because. They're they're like an analytical. You know in what they're what they're sharing with you. Sometimes you can ask a five with they're thinking. Share the tear what they're feeling and they'll tell you what they're thinking. Yeah! But there's there's probably Tennessee to go deep into a body of knowledge maybe. I. Hope so yeah. I'M GONNA try to spark each of them in something that makes them deep dive, so we can just see. I. Think finally hopefully what you here's generosity of heart. Yeah, yeah, the sharing of themselves. That's great, okay, how can we keep up with you? I. Think you can find me if it's still up and running. A degraded any Graham on instagram and fathoms dot any Graham. So here is a really special conversation with our grand fives, Winston and Haley. That's the sound that we're going. Wow, you five fancy I now. I'm so glad you're here Haley. The first thing you said when you walked in the room is what say it again. It was more of a noise. You ask those moon. But you walked in studio. You said it's like an interrogation in here. Yes, yeah, you have two cameras pointed at me and there's not one behind me so I'm a little. Probably a one way window here somewhere. Between US y'all can't do up. There is not but y'all the joy of doing this series. Is that I get to watch to people who've never been in here? Come in here and everyone says something different at the start. No one has said this looks like an interrogation room until you. Half the people don't notice that there's video cameras I think I've been watching too much. Law and order something. Maybe being home I've had a lot of time. Right, well, both of you I want to particularly thank you because I know this is out of the comfort zone a fives to take your life a little bit public. So I promise, we won't talk about your last names are promising won't say where you live. We will just post your picture. So Haley start. Will you tell us who you are just your first name? What you do, marital status kids all that kind of stuff, so people can kind of put you in a bunch of boxes. Okay? Does that feel good? Yeah, my name's Hayley I am a property and casualty insurance underwriter, oh. Great Job for a five. Learn something new every day. I went to school for pr, but you know we just all do it again. That's whatever happens. I am single and I live in Nashville with my dog Benny. Oh. That's nice. Yeah, yeah, what kind of dog Havanese like old found fluff ball? Uh, that's adorable. She said no I didn't I. Don't know like Benny Yeah. That's Cute Yeah Okay. We're GONNA talk more about your job. That's fascinating. Winston. Tells your I'm Winston. I live in Nashville for the past ten years been married. Ten years have a five three in an eight month hole old at home. And I do real estate, so I have a real say brokerage and DO whatever comes my way, which is by so bill, yeah? As soon as you came in, I, wanted to show you all the building things about our office. Like Winston we did this, we didn't have. Beautiful? Do you me my affirmation? Julie. Do you walk into buildings and Haley? Do you walk in Buildings Winston? Do you walk in and see like I? Wonder how this was built in. Hey, do you walk in and go like what kind of insurance this place me? Pretty much a basically try to judge how old building is based on how it smells right so smell can tell you well, this is. Definitely a what was your? Building. A year to it I'm GONNA go Seventies. But I have no idea i. don't know what you're saying. I like to just wow okay. It has already has character to it. Yeah, it's a very nice. As Haley when you walk into a building, what do you think? How many ways can this person get sued really? Slip trip fall exposures all the yeah. That's what I do every. Just, started hurting. I can tell you what words to say on the phone. God terrify dangerous. Dangerous for the keep under good side. That will be my goal. Ailie, tell me about your kind of your journey with any agreement. How you knew you were a identifying as a five I tried to think of when I first heard about it I. Think it was two Thousand Fifteen, my mentor in College Told me about you know personality tests called Graham and he gave me a book to read on it. To which I did not have time for I was taking twenty four credit hours. The time I was like I want me to examine my mind, my how act! No, that's just that's not interested. No, so I lied and I told him I was a four. Oh, wow, I picked it out of I just picked a number I didn't even read about it. I just gave him. I was like yeah. I think four and then just left it. for about a year and then I was living in New York City and why? I used to work in theater advertising. That was my pre Nashville. What show is all So we worked on? We had like Phantom dizzy shows wicked. I did mainly the new shows that were coming to Broadway side, I'd pitch new. Broadway shows and then I did partnerships for the Tony. Awards, what a super cool job to have before you were here, it was it was a lot of fun. Yeah I didn't ever plan to go into. I just moved to New York and I was like arts their jobs than that. Let's see that okay and yeah. Wow, okay, keep going so you like so yeah, Yup. I finally decided it was time to kind of see what the game was all about. When I had the emotional capacity to do so and that was in New York I had a lot of time. My hand lot of subway, writing to read a book and. I remember reading through. Like the numbers up to up to five to singing like maybe there isn't one for me I. Don't know I'm kind of weird like we'll see. and then I read the five and I think one of them is like When I heard them investigator aspect, I was like Oh. Yeah, that's that's me because I. will stand fits a crowded room. I will stand in the corner and I'll just I'll just watch really. Yeah, like if you see me at Church on Sundays. It's not that I don't want to talk to anyone, but I'm having a great time watching people just observing everyone yeah, and just collecting information as you'll do, Winston. How did you start identifying five? I feel like the integrates started to take over and different circles of life all. Even know when it was. But my most memorable moment was I actually haven't read a book front cover on it. I've just picked it up through pieces of conversation in circles of people but there's a page and rode back to you. That says what it's like to be a four. What is like to be a six and so I read what is like to be a five in its statements? Probably twenty of them and every single one I was like. Yep Yep really. Yes, that's me so That's how I started to realize it. And then you know then I then I wanted to research it of course right so I wanted to go. See and take a test and figure out all of the strengths and weaknesses and. kind of resisted being put into like the box of a five. Like you know the you know, that's over there. Nice in the. He's a five, and then that person's before, but so I don't want to be a box or a badge necessarily, but it's very true to who I am. So tell me I mean because at this point, people have listened to a lot of any summer twenty twenty shows, but there are still people here like. This thing. What made you even? Buy In at all. And agreed to even like. Consider yourself a five. I think there's a lot of. Knowing Yourself. And I think it's more than a trend I think it's more than just. Take a personality tests that we can have conversations over dinner about it there there's a certain power in starting with who you are, and telling you telling yourself that like the truth about your unique design, and you can grow once. You know exactly what that is, so I've done it just out of curiosity and knowing like this is GonNa allow you know, allow me to grow as a person. That's really that's really my motivation. Plus I, do like to research, so I like to I like to figure it out and feel like I know kind of the tendencies of of each so. As more of a curiosity, thing y'all directly mimicked the two thousand and nineteen eighty. Fives, where the female emily didn't bring paper, but the male goose brought his. Just like you picked up. Gave folded Oh. Yeah, Oh, you formatted while okay guys. Sorry no like a judge, Moore ignorance. The listeners feel like I'm scripted. They can turn it off right now bringing permission. y'All come right now. I read all of that so naturally. Exist I did did you, but you also don't you practice practice with two people? Yes, yes, yeah, based on the questions. I sent you. Tell me what happens in a because I'm about to do it to you right? The second I mean we're going to go through these, but I mean. What is it five feel when you get a question that you haven't gotten a chance to think through? Fear fear. that the I can I mean it's really funny. This is but. If I feel like I'm going to have to be called on in a classroom or in a meeting, or whatever like I'm already thinking about what I'm going to say if I feel like I'm I might get called on to pray. I will sear my face. All seriously have already thought about what I would pray for. Wow so there is a when you ask that it's it's a deep fear of not knowing the answer, and there's always a failsafe of like I'm have something ready. Because I'm not going to not have an answer. Someone calls on me to pray. Does that ring true to you? Popcorn career is my least favorite thing in the world. Corn reading in fifth grade. Was that a problem? I don't know if we did that, okay? No, but when when you take another every other paragraph, yeah and you. Know I'm going to my paragraph. I WANNA. Make sure there ain't a word in there that I can. Yes and that I took. I went to a Christian high school. And you're reading the Old Testament. You know this name. How do I say this? Yeah, so I mean. Free face instead of preface and everyone left. How am I supposed to know that is the word face? It says pre face. Why would those preface? It's hard to bounce back from that, but were you find after? I mean I, brush it off. Yeah, because the bigger memory that year as a kid who, through on a girl in front of me, and so the bigger memory of that particular classes seventh with greatest when someone everybody. Yeah Yeah, Yeah I. Think everybody else. That guy you always count on him though so like. Count on the guy. That's GONNA throw. Girl worked out great. Just for your brains. We're GONNA. Skip around. We're not going to go and direct order of the less you have, but I would love free to talk about. Tell me a little bit about your each year experiences during Corentin what it was like to not go into work as much or if at all I mean you said you haven't turned your work phone on. Since March so start with you Haley. Tell me a little bit. About what was your experience over the spring twenty twenty yet so in March when everything started to kind of. Blow up a little bit. I was traveling. For your job. I normally travel a lot within Tennessee. At this time. I was actually flying I was in Richmond. Virginia okay which required to go through the Atlanta airport, and so when I like the week before it was a week after the tornado. It was going to travel for work and everyone's saying where mask don't wear masks. Just it was wild, and I the last time I was in Vienna was March thirteenth. And I remember walking out of the airport just like I don't know what I'm coming back here. Yeah, and that was crazy and then just kind of the research aspect said in like when I was not working. During that trip, I was reading news articles. I was on the world. Health Organization website. I always trying to figure out. What is this thing because there is a ton of information, just coming at Ya nos people, said different things, and so I was diving in to try and see what statistics I could find based on what happened in China and then what was happening? In the United, states, it's just so I need to know all. So I can emotionally prepare if something bad happens. Okay, so for me. It's knowing like okay. This group has a bad experience. I have asthma so for me. I was just kind of preparing myself to know what's going to happen. If I do get sick, what do I need to look out for? What do I need to have ready to go? And just being ready for that? And having that Info, and then also educating the people around me of like? Hey I, I can't come I have to cancel this plan. You can't come over. You can't sit on my couch like and so the started quarantine was just. Just, it was a more fear based thing because it was the unknown. Yeah, and then as quarantine went on I, got better, and like friends would come over, and we'd sit on opposite ends of my porch, more than sixty two part and like eat dinner or just hang out for a little bit, and that that really helped, but were you able to work from home? Yes, so working the whole time. Yeah, I got back from Richmond and I immediately went to working from home. They close the office down and I. DOUBT WE GO BACK IN I. Don't even know if we'll be back in twenty twenty. Really are still working from home time. Yes, yeah all the music industry. We just aren't because there's. Five of us that that works out well. We switched last year. Actually it's an open concept office with the lower cubicle wall. Yeah, yeah, I, think they regret that now. We used to have like six foot tall. Yeah, the standard office yet, but. I I think I figured out pretty quickly in quarantine that. Introvert does not mean that you don't need to be around people. Would you consider yourself an introvert? Yes, yeah, yeah, and so for me. It was at first people jokes me like all. You're probably so good at this. Actually no I don't think anyone's ever been intended to live like this which we haven't were meant to live in community. Yeah, and so for me it was. How do I? Keep this understanding of community that I've grown to know and Love Post College and That state without going back to how I was before where I was like I. Don't really need beer on people right and so it's just been that. Yeah, that balance. What about you? What was I mean wife and three kids and a dog? Man People at Home Yeah Yeah Corentin from me. It's kind of it was A. it was a process so at the very beginning. I would say that. I absolutely flourished in it. Really yes, I didn't know what was going to happen and like Haley like you're just kind of waiting on the next press conference and everybody's just kind of. Waiting but. But I I say flourish, because a lot of my emotional health is based on my energy so I if I literally will. Kind of plan out my day based on where I need to spend my energy. Like what did you do today? Different because you're having to come to this I literally thought. I'm going to be talking for a couple of hours on a microphone so if I've got meetings that day. I need to wash myself. Because it will, it will drain. It'll drain me out if I had a bunch of one on ones with people or meetings or like a lunch with somebody by the time I get I might not make it to two o'clock right it but I will, but it's just not. I'm just not as good so like my. You'll get the best me at nine am or whatever? So! What happened was everything shut down, so I didn't have any social demands. Right I didn't have anybody that needed me necessarily from a work standpoint. It was still there, but it wasn't like they could just. Come in and say hey. Whenever they needed to. And so life just kinda got way simplified, and when that happened I thought Oh. This is the way that supposed to be. You know this is the way it's supposed to feel. It's like mayberry and nobody's asking you to. Do you know dinner three or four nights that week and You don't even go. To Church. You literally were just with your family at home, and everybody was the same. It was a bizarre time of life like the strangest thing I've ever experienced. Then, what happened was. I started to realize that self-isolation is also kind of the antithesis to my emotional health, so pay a five. Five in the unhealthy can just be the owl in the tree. That never comes out and never engages another in another species like. So, self-isolation is not a good thing for a five. Then you know, we should be moving towards an eight. Actually, which is more engagement, more care more, you know consideration for other things other people. So I started to realize that end and pick up on it and make some certain changes to just can't isolate for forever. It's not good for you especially for five, so that was kind of my experience. Talk a little bit Haley about what I mean Winston said I think is so key for my friends who identifies fives is the thing about energy. And having enough resources in you to do the things you need to do, are you the same way? Do you kind of think through your day? Your Week? To make sure you'll have enough energy for the whole thing Oh. Yeah, absolutely I mean. I took this whole afternoon. Offside was off work two hours before coming in here, too, so I knew I'd have some time to. Unwind from the Workday, but also I mean there's I don't really like to commit to things too far in advance, because then what if I committed to the social event? But it's two weeks away and I don't know where I'm going to be like. Sunday afternoon two weeks from now. Really, and so I love a good a little bit of spontaneity because. If I WANNA say yes. I'm ready to say S, and I can go right there. Yeah, so I start to get nervous with my wife and I make one off social or calendar decisions. Over certain time, and and I think okay. Hold on, can you? Can we run back through what our next two weeks? Because we've said yes. Some stuff I'm starting to get a little and I. Can we do it all can I do it all, but but her. WHO's in any Graham three, there is no into it like it's actually actually like plugging into an outlet for her. It is right when the calendars. And recharge and I'm the complete opposites crazy, but but I totally I identify with that so impressive that threes can do that or really any other never. Well. I think it's really impressive that y'all y'all are. Healthy enough in your five business they you are thoughtful, every energy versus running out and losing on someone or withdrawing whatever your preferences of how it goes, so I think I think one of the most important things when we are thinking about our five friends is remembering that they start with a battery lower than A. Lotta people battery level lower now they'll have less. You just have a you know you're you start maybe seventy percent and all day long you're thinking about. How do I not get to zero? Because if I'm going to be there for someone I'm fully invested and I'm not gonNA. Go Halfway. Yeah. But you have to have the energy reservoirs to do that. I've I've been with a friend before. She was at my house and she looked over at me and she goes. You're done, aren't you? And apparently there something in my eyes just like? Shutdown. She was like it looks like no one's home and I was like. She leave yeah. If you WANNA know if we're good friends than the list that if I've fallen asleep on, you like at eight thirty. At l.. Done. You have fallen asleep by by. Yeah. Literally is like my mouth won't just won't move again. Yeah I've played closing time to get people out of my house before. Was Super Bowl Party and there are people I didn't know well, so I didn't want to be like. Hey, just get out I i. played closing time Oh. That's very funny and they left. It was great. They thought it was funny. So, what are you most afraid of what is what is really scary for fives or for you? You've written down to you. WanNa go first. Yeah I mean we. We touched on it and it is the feeling that I won't be able. Or have the answer or that I'm worthy. which is a different level of that fear But basically. That I won't be able to figure something out. If you. Bring me a problem and I don't have. A way to walk you out of it. You know that could be emotionally or like a physical problem or business problem i. My my greatest fear is to get called on and and not be able to use what I've what I do everyday day, which is research gathering Mpho, because it's the self protection strategy so I I am I'm constantly researching gathering things to put into my. You know my bag of of wisdom and knowledge. So that I don't have to be. You know exposed that I'm not gonNA. Have what it takes to get what you need. so it's a total self-preservation. It's all subconscious you just. You're gathering things so that you can. Have the answer and and not be seen as oh, they said previous right. I mean it's bad, but it doesn't. The same way it's it's very. It's a different fear for me. I think that would be kind of conceptually. What I would call my biggest fear as it relates to the program. Would you say Haley? Just looking stupid, that's. The worst thing that could possibly happen like whether it's a class or just a conversation with people. I'm constantly Kinda thinking like. Where's this conversation going? And do I need to dig deep into my archives to figure out what we're talking about? And normally I, read the news a lot, so I've. I go down. wikipedia holes sometimes if I'm just bored on the computer, and so I have a bunch of random information, but what if the random information is collected isn't enough at that moment, or if so out because then you've done the work, and you still don't have what you need. Exactly or someone I loved is in like a hard spot and I. Don't have the answer to that. That sourced really. Yeah you agree with that. Yeah, because I would imagine that there would be. This may not be the right word theon crack me, but there would be shame. You'd feel shame if. If you had thought you'd quite on the information you needed. And then someone needs something and you don't have the resources. They need totally shame. Shame and failure and. Oh, I would takes right I must not have done. What I should have done to get this through or to satisfy that person or the problem. Are you thinking about that all the time when you're reading and when you're collecting information when you're learning, are you thinking about? I better have everything in my bag I. Don't think it's that okay. Blatant I'm not that aware of it. Yeah, because I would like to think that I'm also at the same time balancing that outwith. Okay. It kind of is what it is at a certain point, you can relax. At a certain point you can say at you know what? I! Don't no, neither do you you know and we're all just trying to figure this out together. And so that pressure just gets kind of relieved, so I think depending on the areas of life. You know the higher the stress. The more that I'm GonNa think about it that. blatantly right so like the higher the higher the stakes, the more it's going to be front of mind and so. I would I will also kind of prioritize. How important is this? And, it'll be kind of linear. It'll have a linear relationship to how much effort I'M GONNA put into self preserving. Wow, so like this podcast. been putting in the hours to prepare it. I'm getting. Could be a complete savior and asked me. How to spell pre, face. A whole different set. No, but does that make sense. Yeah, it's a it's a proportionate thing. It's got a relationship, so it's not every day, but it is it is. It is to the extent of the stress of the situation, yeah. I don't as a seven I. Don't know that I think about proportions at all like that. So I'm hearing, you and you're saying, does that make sense I'm like? sepcially percent I understand what you're saying I do not know how you live like that. Yeah the greater the risk, the greater the research in my opinion. That it's my job. Hey But I mean to go off what you're saying. Someone told me that ignorance is only your fault. Until after you've discovered that thing so like if I'm I mean I'm of water skiing because I can't water ski to save my life and I don't know how to do it, but if I go out there, and I'm just like ignorant, and then I just flop into the water and don't even tried to learn or go farther then that that then then it's on me. But someone asked me a question about something and I don't know this is what I have to do. My job a lot is like I. Don't know the answer, but I'm gonNA. Go find out! Get back to you, okay. I mean. Did you pick your job? Why did you pick your job going from theater marketing? Yeah, in New, York. Would you know we're big fans of wicked around here because we've had the which is on, but not religious. We've had alphabet England on just who? What made you pick this kind of job? Did you just feel like such a sweet spot? I kind fell into it. I got to the point with marketing that. It wasn't the stability that I wanted and I realize that I mean there comes a point. If you're living in New York that New York is either your dream. Come true or if you're not in it, it's time to go, and it's not. That's not a bad thing. Leaving New York is not a bad thing I made it. They're like did fine and then can make it there. You can make it anywhere, but early and then I went to go. Make it in San. Antonio Texas, so there between here. I've moved fifteen times since I've graduated high school. Well. Winston. What would you say that that? That adds a whole level of Haley that I did not know. Did you research every single one of those moves before you did it? yeah, and I get to the point kind of where I trust myself when I hit the level of research that I need to like. The New York decision. I was living in DC, intern I was entering a DC that was not like a permanent move. and I didn't know where I wanted to go just yet, and so I was like Oh. Let's Go Try New York so I moved without a job or a place to live longer three weeks, but I figured out this three weeks and I had a plan for those three weeks. You've fifteen times since high school, but now I bought a house. You're in your early thirties. I'm twenty five twenty five really. Thought you're such a grown up twenty five. Fifteen Times since high school and you're twenty five. This is when it really throws people. I changed colleges, so I've lived in Texas. Oklahoma Washington DC NEW YORK. City back to San Antonio to national and I had five apartments in New York because you have to like yeah. For a little bit until you find a place unreal unreal. It's the best thing. To ask you moved that many times I turned twenty six months or so richer, twenty five I would have never guessed you're obviously. I thought you were thirty. That you were? Most people do think it's OK really. Yeah, yeah I feel like. No not. Never mind. Okay, so you're okay, so that's how you got here. San Antonio in the middle. National is Kinda like the move to new. York I just in my gut I was like Oh. Let's go I mean Antonio was a harder city for me to live in because I was morning. New York, and that's just like when you leave. New York. You compare everything to New York so I was comparing my church, my friends all of that just not, it wasn't going well. Yeah, and a job opportunity opened up in Nashville and I was like I'll take it a two and I knew one person here. You know it's a real. Like mind twister for me five in New, York. The best. No is you you're bragging on. It and I'm over here thinking. What is she seriously? A five on cry on the subway and no one will say nobody's. So it's a ton of people, but nobody notices, nobody notices you and I know that sounds like sad and depressing, but no, it's actually it's beautiful and it's you're. You're surrounded by people you get to watch. Yup, you're always learning new things because you're going to meet the strangest on earth yeah which is Great. and. So I heard us about five one time, and it said I didn't say that I wanted to be alone. I said I wanted to be left alone I. Call it social alone time. Okay, so if you put that. If you put that I didn't say I wanted to be alone, I wanted to be left alone so I wanna be this room. Just don't talk to me. Yeah, just don't ask me like. How was your day? Oh, please don't small. Talk me right. Yeah. That's the thing I mean we have to. We have to like right. You have to be people or Go to parties. Walk Dewey. That's funny. I had to. I had to ask about the new. York thing because I haven't been able to crack that code yet. Because I resist it, but that makes more sense. Yeah, I mean if you, if you go I mean. I loved it. 'CAUSE here national. You're sitting in traffic for an hour because I commute to Franklin and you're sitting in traffic for an hour. You have a podcast. Yeah, that's great, but in New York you can have a podcast and a book going at the same time. People watching and people watching. Yeah, I've always wanted to live in New York. And I always think man it would be. You just get so much done as far as reading books and so efficient. Yeah, it's very efficient. Nashville is not very efficient for me, so that's why live very close to elevate close to the office, because I cannot commutes or not I was not made for a commute and I have to operate the vehicle. Do Commute where I'm writing a subway. A or I gotTA. Drive him so bored. The time when we got trapped underground with no cell service I, was like that's actually isn't too bad. How do you feel about your cell phone? I am interested about how you feel about phones. Do you like? Do you have to throw it away? Sometimes is just an information. The fact overload the fact that anybody can expect to contact you at any given moment ever. It's really insane if you think about it. You can get the most random. Hey, ten years ago. person who can hit you. Directly and say. And need or ask or pay whatever and it's. That's kind of crazy for five to be able to realize so you know I. They're great. You got you got to move. You know you gotta be efficient and you got to get things done and communicate and provides all of that but it also. Requires like twenty four seven stewarding of my energy again. A whole another level of okay. You know what? I think. I'm just GONNA text everybody back tonight. Right because I'll I'll get out of a meeting. It'll be ten of them. It doesn't happen all the time, but randomly at does, and I think I. Am so underwater right now, and it'll stress me out I'm like. I'm a skin, this real quick, but I in in the mood to talk to just. Stop Energy I don't have it. Yeah, so I will plan to do it later. Yeah same, Haley just expect them to deal with yeah same I mean. If it's an emergency, they'll call me. Yeah, if you really need me that badly, please call me but. God if I could have a flip phone you were that'd be amazing, but I'm a millennial. Like totally would yeah. Both of you have a flip over an iphone. We'll say oh, sorry, I didn't get it 'til. Yeah, sorry I didn't see that you know pastor Dave Clayton. Has a flip phone does and you have dated like either call him or text him very short amount of words because there's no paragraphs going to his flip phone. And it is it directions. He prints out directions. Impressive mapquest. Probably a map quest. To not have absolutely. Fair, we're GONNA, get. A Francis interrupted this conversation with our five. Tell you about some of our partners that we are so grateful for as the weather warms up. 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We talk for a minute about being a dad. WHO's a five? Sorry, this is on your list. Talk about being a dad and the amount of energy you have to conserve to be the kind of husband and Dad WanNa be and have a very important job if you read the what it's like to be five in the road back to you those statements. It doesn't. It doesn't paint a five in a really kind like there like there are super. Super Super Nice and people person, person. And so I think a lot of my growth as a dad. Like how do I learn how to operate out of my? Emotion and my body instead of my head. Because there is nothing happening in the prefrontal cortex of any five year old. Or three year old, it is all emotion and girls and girls, and so there's a massive collision of. Winston five logic and five and three year old. Girl a motion, and it is I it can be madness again manis, and so it has stretched me and push me harder than anything. I've ever done in my life to be able to slow down and literally strive and coach myself to stand in their tiny little shoes and be like you know what this makes no sense whatsoever. But clearly to you, it makes all the sense in the world, and you're feeling whatever you're feeling. So Amelia came home the other day after school. This was pre quarantine from preschool, and she's four at the time, and she had this look on her face of sadness. What's going on? She said I'm sad, and I said well. What are you sat about? And she said. So, and so and so and so at school didn't sit with me at the table. And I thought what. Really. WHO And why and what do they say and know? I'm going through all these things. And I caught myself and I thought first of all. This is way too early in her age for me to be able to start talking about who south earned who didn't at school, and how it affected her little heart. But I did have this moment where I thought I am going to. I have a long road of sitting in her shoes and listening, because if I don't if I go into my little five, you know people should just. Be Independent and do what they need to do, and self sustain themselves. Then I'll never hear her and she won't ever feel heard. And so I've really had to grow a lot a lot of ways, but from from this standpoint it's been my. Emotional availability to them. Wow! Yeah. I would imagine I mean I've watched it up close and you've done an amazing job at it, but I have heard you say this is the hardest thing I've ever done Yeah, yeah, it's challenging. Yeah, it really is. It's it's. It's beautiful, and it's also demanding you know and. And to have certain predispositions like a five than. I thrive in stability and calm. And anything that's over stimulating and unpredictable, and we're like everything about zero to five and kids is the antithesis of. It's crazy. Right Haley. You should see when I get to their house to eat dinner. I just we all start screaming and the kids all start screaming and went into kind of like. Just, just Wiltz. I'M GONNA. Go Lay in the back I really. I mean. Okay every week. But I started up I started real hard into love it and love it, I. Do but I started up real hard. Let's talk about our spiritual eyes from an alley. Because that's how we know each other through church, tell me how about being a five and faith because I think y'all have to have a lot of things proven to you and God is not something you can. Prove exactly. So how how is your faith? Life affected by your number. If I look back to high school and I went to a Christian high school and I really. was really hard core into the legalism of that, and just you know here's. What's right and wrong, because I couldn't quite figure out. I don't think the relationship aspect I. Don't and IT'S NOT IN A. Legal Way easier. It was just so much easier. It's less in depth I can just get cokes through I can speak Christian. He's like nobody's business. Yeah, and I'll be fine. And so I made it through and I got to. I got to this There's this mentorship program. It's at a camp. I went to Texas in its for Recent high school graduates, and I remember going into that programming like I can cook. I got this. Yeah, no so. At that moment I remember we dove. Pass just learning about like the historical context of the books of the Bible and we dove into like here's why this historical factor is important, and here's why it's so creative that God did this. Oh and that really ignited me, into finding out more and so as a five I think my searchlights looks a lot like. Discovering the creativity of God. Through the complexities of his creation, and that is oh. Sorry, I, don't. Know, that's a very good sense. And so just diving into like I feel so bad I lead a group at Church last fall and those poor things. They probably thought they were just getting some Nice Little Bible study. No, they walk in and I'm like here's. Three different Greek words for life what they mean and John. And that was the Bible. Because that's that's how I get passionate. That's how I feel God because I look at this and I'm like. None of this is on by accident. Yes, there's something about the depth of you can dig into scripture and dig dig dig dig, and you're not gonna hit the bottom is there's something good about that? Yes, it's unlimited and I can. To a degree, I don't accept it as easily. So I've got to just say at a certain point. You just have to trust and have. I have to believe here is where it stops. Okay, Hey, I agree with that I. Mean there there's the belief aspect, and with when it comes to scripture. It's one of those things I'm. either. If I'm overwhelmed by the complexity in a bad way in a like, I will never fully understand and know God. That that comes to a point where I'm like I. Don't know if that's healthy. because there comes a point where I can be. Excited about the amount of information that's in the Bible and like what I can learn about God and then that needs to transfer into the relationship aspect. and kind of giving up. My brain out like giving knowing things. For a relationship, because that I mean, it's a two way street. I mean giving up my brain to believe it's probably a real. True feeling for a lot of fives. Right with that feel that feels like something. I've heard five. Save like at some point i. just have to stop thinking. That's the I've been excited for Y'all to get here because you were getting five six and sevens, which we haven't dove into this very much at all, but it's the thinking triad right, so y'all, and I are the most similar because we don't do things out of what we feel or what our gut tells us. We spend things in our brains. So that feels really true to me to that. At some point, your brain has to stop, and you'd have to go and do and that's how I know like when I make life decisions that kind of thing, because it is such a mind, centered personality that if I know in my gut. That I'm supposed to do something that's God. Okay when it when it is outside of your natural when it's peace without needing look into further information that that's good. Oh Wow. One of the questions I prepped y'all with so we'll go to. It is what what do you need God to say to you on a daily basis? What does it look like for God to? To speak to you to say what you need to hear. I don't know if I specifically hear him. Which I know air that works out differently for everyone and I'm not saying that people can't hear God and that. We we do not hear you judging anybody else Yup. so for me. It's just if I'm considering a decision preying on it when that piece hits, because pieces natural to me at all. So I'm constantly moving thinking, observe observing trying to figure out what the next step is, but if they're always looking for it piece. I don't think I'm always looking for it, but I'm always ready for it. Like so like if it if it happens, I'm not gonNA fight it okay. What do you think what's and what does it? Need, that's a big question. And so. Luckily you typed up your answer, so we find yeah well. They're just a couple of little. Bullet talking point. You're talking points. I certainly want to know that I am enough. That no matter what I'm enough and that His grace is sufficient because I can. I can get in that stress cycle. And self protect and defend and gather. And what defuses all of that is to hear him say my grace's sufficient. And I think that's my reminder on on a daily basis. I, think Also. Sometimes I think I project, my personality onto God and I think. I think we all. Do I wonder I. Don't know that's where I'm saying this this this might not be five thing, but but but to a five I do wonder. Does he see me like. Does he notice me in all of this chaos? That's happening. I notice. I feel like I noticed these ultimate details of life. That are so cute. I wonder if he notices me and so to hear him say. I see you is is like huge, you know. Because I like to be able to say I. Did notice that small little detail over there in in the corner and I wonder if he could do the same for me of that. He's a notice her them. y'all didn't hear. The beginning of the show is Seth Abraham talks about characteristics of fives before they before the listeners hearing you. And if Mitt remembering correctly in, either he said. This or we've just talked about before that that there is a real importance for us to see every type. When we look God to go like Oh. Yeah, that is who he is. If I can notice that deeply, he must notice that deeply. but it's also why we need. Each other is because I need you to remind me that he knows. Is that deeply? You need me to remind you that he shows up at your house in rows up your children. As the party. I love. This question is worse than I feel blank those a tough one really. Done. Not. Known it didn't just come to me quickly so I. Yeah, I don't know I would say. Nothing is worse to me than when I feel. Like, something doesn't go how I planned it. Don't make me happy birthday. Don't surprise me at my birthday. Don't change up plans on me. Don't say you know I well, we we actually are GONNA call an audible here. Yeah, no, don't do that and you go onto the next question or whatever but But I tell you what it shakes foundation so because I thrive in stability, predictability and so spontaneity. Unless I can kind of be the one that comes up with it and. Have already I can control that. But yeah I think spontaneity and surprises, and when something goes plan, it just trips me up. Yeah, so it's that whole fun thing just. I think fives are. Difficult having fun like coming up really coming up with fun. What does that really look like for you? Studying a tree. Is that really what you're saying so That's mine. That's a great answer. What about you? Haley? Nothing is worse to me than what I feel. I don't feel belittled at all. And I don't I. Don't know if that's just like a me. Thing or a five. Saying I hate being talked down to especially if I'm an expert in what they're talking about that. If you want to see me, get angry four hours later that. You want to guarantee I go to bed angry and you never know yes. How you doing. Because we have the answers that you need it, and you just took him. And you just said welcome. Yeah, or when they ask a question and they just like answer it themselves Mike that you didn't I know this? Let me answer this. Is that true? If if you're belittle by men and women, or is that particularly men? It's both. I mean I'm just curious. That's a great answer. No, it's it's both and I think it for me Sims I mean it happened in high school I would ask questions about God and People May. That's no, let's not you can't ask that. Don't asa yeah. Wow! I it does reinforce that question. How much of any grams nature and how much is nurture But that is very interesting. If we go back elementary school, it's it's nature. Yes that was not always wear in chess club in like second grade. Are you good at chess I don't want to say I'm I'm not because I. Don't you know what I don't know in my head? You thank you. You play piano. Hours yes or you? No you missed hours wanted to be in a band. Like a rock band or you? Either just anywhere I could be in the background, playing something, but not the League of course and wanted to be on the stage Yeah, yeah, music huge! It's incredible. Keep, going. It's therapeutic. It's a language that speaks of people in a different way and I've always appreciated. It loved it been a consumer of it and. I think it's a it's just another way for. A five to like sit in their thoughts and. In process. I don't know why I mean I. Just I just wanted to the second grade I have no idea why why I stick with I have no idea but. It was a way to communicate with something. that. That didn't this sounds terrible? But I could communicate with an instrument that talk back to me. I wanted to. Write like Hugh basically. Sit Down and you say I'm GonNa play this because this is how I wanNA feel today. And you can process through things as you play, and it's a it's A. It's a deep languish me like it's. It's a therapy I love it. That filter iffy. Yeah at I'd never thought of it that way. for me music, just the progressive aspect of it like even just is not to be a drum, but like if I walk, or if I moving or if I'm listening to music and I have that I process a lot faster if I had that. Help you really. Can we go back to the belittled comment? Yeah, I I've thought about that of course I identify with that because if there's somebody that has disregard for my thoughts or input. I have. Filtered unqualified, whatever I'm going to say or or or give to the situation so hard and so much that like I'm pretty sure it's right. You know like I'm pretty sure it's valid I'm pretty sure it has value. And so I'm not just kind of making it up. Just kind of verbally processing in a in a situation like that right, so it goes back to. Reading the paragraph ahead of the two students in front of you like plan and prepared for it, and so, if somebody just kind of disregard for do or even consider what you were saying. You kind of think well. That's your loss. Right 'cause we're. We're I I feel like I am very hard on myself to make sure that if you're gonNA, speak up your risks something. If you're gonNA risk something then you're gonNA qualify it and once that's been through that whole filter. It is a refined and hopefully accurate statement. That would add value to this situation. And so if it's not heard. It's real offensive in a way does that make sense? That's all done in ten seconds. That's yeah, those are it's not. It's quick. It's I like I'm just waiting until a gap in I mean I, do wait until there's a gap in the conversation to speak, but. If you interrupt me or you know, cut me offered. Yeah, belittle the comment it. We're done. You will not hear for me. For like a day or two. Oh yeah, and don't text me on my flip phone. Yeah, yeah, they'll makes me a lot of words, yeah! So y'all are both okay. If someone disagrees with you, just don't belittle you. You can have a different opinion if you have brought an educated opinion to the conversation. I, love debating people. It's so much fun, okay? That's a healthy five. I've had to learn that. So that moves into engagement that moves into the Challenger which is the eight and so bringing five out of their little tree. You know is good, so we can I would love to talk like I'd love to have philosophical discussion whatever it is but we're. Talking about the disregard of it like it's not even worthy of me. Responding to that would be the deepest cut Oh, that's the worst one. I've liked. That was really dumb. Respond to that. then. You won't hear from him for a day. We're healthy like if a five has done the work to get to going towards an eight. One. You should be taking our jobs out there. That, we're putting yourself out there, but you should be terrified. Because not only do we have the facts? We have the passion behind the facts and that has. Write our. Feel. The Passion behind the fact that is that is a hell backs behind the passionate passion behind the facts. Ah, there is something different, but yeah. That's why it hurts so much especially if you're in that space, okay, because you've got the passion behind the facts, but you've done the work and bothered to do the work to get there. And you could have used your energy and another. Yeah, it was worth the energy. So, so we better get somewhere with this. Man That's good. That's really good. Eight hundred nine of the people listening to this are not fives. I mean I'm hearing. You already say one of the ways you can love your fives by listening to them and believing them, but how how do y'all receive love? What does it look like for your friends and family members to love you? Really well I touched on this, but notice in that kind of this kind of the same theme but noticed. valued. Seeing seeing the value in the strengths that I feel like I would have to offer someone who can engage in the intelligence and. Go there and kind of have this deep level. Structural conversation of certain ideas or philosophies of life shows me that Oh, you know I'm worthy of I'm worthy of that. For you, you know. but but also just been. Noticed for what? We would offer too at the table. Yeah. When someone bothers to like learn the whatever area of interest that I have really deep into to talk with me about it or the. Let me talk about it. That that. That's one way just like showing up in being there. inviting me not expecting me to show up. Yeah? It'd be nice like still I still want to be invited. Just most likely might not come, but I still want to know that you depreciate me being there. and then please don't get hurt if I don't show up because if I'm showing up, I'm a hundred percent there for you if I'm not showing up, it's because I don't want to give you half of me Do you say that people I can't come tonight because I don't WanNa, give you half of me. I. Mean I'll I'll just tell them like. Hey, my energies low. I can't come tonight, yeah. Yeah Yeah. You should say that. I think people can really respond well to communication. That's really good. Okay, what have we announced that about five that you want the world to know? We're almost done. You really done at you guys. Thanks isn't that go past. Did it feel like to you? Know, Yeah Yeah, when she saw facts and passionate house like this is. SPLICES starting to go. Now we're getting started forty five minutes in I. Need a warm up. We'll just start now. Woodley the first forty five minutes now. We'll just go for another now. Let's say you're weird, not weird, but like what are you really passionate about learning about? Is there something that's just off the wall that you know a lot about I wanted to ask you. That's a great question. Man. I think it changes for me. And it none of it's all. Total nerdy stuff like. I grew up learning about birds and flowers and trees and stuff so I enjoy like being able to identify bird thirds. Burner. But I'm not bird her. Radnor you should totally go. I'm not a burder. Study them first of all, this was a Haley question to me and I'm getting put way on the spot with. What what do I like to I'm not a I'm a generalist. I don't I. Don't feel like I am an expert in anything. Specifically, if there's one thing I feel like everybody that knows me as screaming at me right now. It's weather. That's amazing weather. I am such a weather consumer. It's unbelievable. I have just a running doppler on my home twenty four seven, if I could of Nashville or of the world or how Zoom Dandy, you want the southeast. Yeah, you just want to see happening all around well. I WanNa see where it's coming from of course. Sandstorm. That's like coming at US right now. Yeah, yeah, I think! It's. I also seriously I feel closest to God during storms and certain weather situations. It's like nature. Just kind of brings it out of me but I but I also just I love to. Read about it. Learn about it and watch it. Come through so. Went since on Instagram, but if he was, he would follow all weather accounts. Oh for sure. Yes I sure what's the best way you said? The longest day of the year the summer solstice also. Do you want me to tell you how I seven response to that means the days are getting because. I was so excited and I'm like every day. We're getting closer to darkness. Exciting. I love winter. Oh Gee kind winter. The best. We have the complete opposite reaction to the summer solstice and the fact we're talking about this summer. Sources really exciting for me I love I love the summer solstice long as the that means, we're still incrementally the longest as the. We're like yeah. Yeah Yeah Yeah. It's nothing I got to know. Who is an expert in well? Mine's not is useful as yours now that. I don't listen to me. Give Advice, but it's fun I know way way too much about like the Northern Ireland troubles and harsh poetry and really fun. I studied abroad there, but also Irish. So, yeah, it's always been fascinating to me and the fact that like you can be I mean just the conflict of it and everything and how? They're less than ten years out of it. There's a beautiful poem called ceasefire by Michael. Longley highly recommended. It's nerdy. It's bad like it's not bad at long. Okay, not bad, but it's just it does not apply. Like, my wife Paul I watch dairy girls. I'm doing great 'cause I. Know What's happening, but that's about it after use subtitles on our. I'm like I can't understand what these. Are saying yeah. You. have any other deep dive topics that you love. Irish, of space. All, you love love space. It's close to whether. If you just keep going, it does impact them. Yes. It does some point they're. Also A to be fair Winston I would like to submit that. You also know a lot about safety. A lot about. Call Code Orange. What do you call it? Yes, yeah, code. It's it's condition. Why Yellow! Orange A. Lot, about about keeping things safe, like Osha, from from a self-awareness standpoint Ed from like protection and Home Protection and yeah firearms. Are you six wings. I'm a four actually two. Yeah the piano comes in. I'm convinced yeah maybe. Yeah yeah protections of self-awareness. Don't go through live. I can like everything's. Butterflies Right Rainbow. Pay attention to your attention. Yeah, fill up with gas and look around. Fill up with gas at looked around. That is like. That is such a winston. T shirts. You said yeah filled with gas and look around. Watch your back right. Okay. I don't have time. For that does has. Okay anything else. I have one thing how good so does I do, too? After this the hey, would you want people to know thing? Yeah, it's whatever you wanted to be. Fives are are much more emotionally wired them perceived. But the differences we just don't Omote as much. Right in front of people. Or in front of people, and it's not as it's not as on the surface, but I feel like there's a stereotype that fives don't have as much emotion, and that's not true for any of us, but it it just comes through in different ways and different levels That's what I wanted to say. Okay, why does that? Why is that important to you? I think sometimes fives can. Can Be perceived that they have a disregard for the person. On the other end. Because of their cavalier nece. If that's a word for the answer got you know? so it looks like. They become a bulldozer. And they all they want is the result, and it's a right or wrong in. It's proven right, and it's a hypothesis that you just you know. One Prize. And so you would stereotype the five to to say well within they don't care about people or they don't care about emotion, or they don't have emotion because men. Did you see? You know. It's like an engineer, which is where I started in college and I was like I'm not doing this not smart enough. But but stereotypically an engineer. You'd say oh well. They're just about the numbers. There's not room there for emotion. Because if you bring emotion into a bridge that falls down. But but I think the stereotype, and so that's why I to defend it a little bit. put it out there and say you do we do? And it should come out and it probably does with your closest circles. And that's a good thing. that's Creko. It came out during quarantine. Sure Oh, yeah, yeah, also if you ask a friend like if they need help or if they need something, do it twice Because the first time I'm going to say no, because I think you're just doing it to be nice. But, if you, if you really do mean it, don't do it if you don't mean it, but if you really do mean it, ask us time. Does that. Yeah, that'll actually that might get my attention and have given me time to actually think about what I might need. A. It's like a follow up. Okay respect that. You guys well done I. Know This job in very far outside of your comfort zone Haley, stretching for like. The last question well, what an honor that you would do this and you do this. I'm very grateful and the last question. We always ask that that sounds fun podcast. Tell me what you do for fun. Do Five, fun yeah, just getting to hope so. I mean I have water balloons written down I'll tell me. Now that did you know that some genius figured out a way to to hooker water balloon thing to a hose fills up like twenty of them. Yes, I've never done it but I've seen I don't know how high off that's what I'd like automatically. Oh, I don't know I. Don't know either, so I've just been thinking about that. I felt this summer. How am I going to survive the summer solstice? Water balloons. Do. You have the thing that gets them off. The bakes twenty. But Amazon does like I've seen them at Walmart. If you need that, so you just love waterbirds. It sounds fun to you. It just sounds fun. Yeah, great, you said. What do I do in life is that is fun i. mean now I said what sounds Wendy you water balloons. Water balloons great answer Michael Ware said water parks and I think he might be a five, so that doesn't. That doesn't surprise me. Well done Puerto Broacher, awesome water parks are. Are we ever going to get to go to water parks again? Yes. No. We do there's GonNa be like three people there. have to yourself I. Think the one nationals open, is it? Yeah I mean you're going to try to tell me I have to wear a mask, but I'm getting in the same liquid as other people. I mean there's chlorine right? Maybe the glories just up by eight. We're going to have bleached hair by the end of the summer, but at least we went to showers I. DO enjoy it. It is one of my favorite water parks. Okay hailing. What do you do for fun Tell me what sounds fun to you. Sorry. I really want Trivia night back. I haven't gotten it back, yeah! Would go trivia on Thursdays and yeah. Here for Trivia in fives brain. I don't need because you're Stinger Trivia either. Okay, that's under calculating. I liked it. I really liked it I mean I've prepared my whole life for it, but when I. It's been bad at Trivia. I talked too much during it, but so I either know it most of the time you know. If I. Don't know it I learned something. So! It's a win. Trivia is great. It's super efficient. It's like either get. Off a little. In half with friends and see what they randomly no round, and then if I don't know I learned something new. Brilliant that's a great answer. Both of you you're not the most five. Thing I can say to have fun is is. Like a box with instructions and build something. If if you identify with that, you probably. I've been doing that a lot lately. The furniture you're not the guy who throws away the instruction and goes for it. No, no, no, that's just like throwing away. You know the guidebook a guidebook, and then do you save them? Because underneath the desk, I have a symbol. It's taped the instructions in case I move. I don't play on it, but in case I do I. Have It, so it is. More often than not I do. Yeah, just in case. Because what if I take it apart and then I I could figure it out, but I want to do it the right way. I want it to be hopefully if it's furniture structurally sound so. You. Guys, these fives, right uh-huh. They're so great. I'm so thankful for Winston and Haley telling us their thoughts really sharing from inside the mind of a five I feel like I learned a lot in this conversation. As. We're sharing all things any Graham I. Just remind you about our any of summer two thousand twenty sponsor. You're curious about your number. If you've listened so far, and you still don't totally know where you fit I encourage you to check out your any grim coach. Take the assessment. They have amazing courses and tools to learn more about any. Graham and building relationships with other numbers. You can take the assessment by going to your. Coach Dot com slash that sounds fun or by clicking through the links in our show notes as you may know, we've been saving question or two for that. Youtube clip, and for all of our summer twenty twenty guests. We're talking about the election so to hear some really process thoughts from the immigrant five head to YouTube dot com slash any F- downs. T. S. F. or just click the link in the show notes below and hey, if you. You identify the Ingraham Five. We love you and we need you. And Will you share this episode with your people, so he can get to know you better and love and understand you as well as possible. If you need anything else for me, you know I'm embarrassingly easy to find any F- downs on instagram twitter facebook all the places. You may need me. That's how you can find me. Don't forget. We have those special summertime cousy all any. Themed over at shop. Any F- DOWNS DOT COM coming up next week. We finish up any a summer. How is it already over you got? Two more shows to go, and are any a summer twenty twenty, the Graham Sixes, and then we end with the party that we should end with the. Sevens and so we got two more shows, so make sure you're subscribed. If you haven't yet hit, subscribes any good shows that are coming up and if you get a chance to rate and review the show that would mean a whole lot. I think that's it for me today. Friends go out or stay home and do something that sounds fun to you. I'll do the same. We'll see you back here on Monday. y'All have a great weekend.

Haley Winston New York City Nashville Church Benny Yeah Graham Rossi York Christian high school Julie US Ryan O'Neal Tennessee Texas Seattle Blaise Pascal Hayley I spotify Jason
Alexa is Stealing Your Job  The Impact of Artificial Intelligence on Your Future  Rhonda Scharf

A New Direction

1:00:09 hr | 1 year ago

Alexa is Stealing Your Job The Impact of Artificial Intelligence on Your Future Rhonda Scharf

"You say the game is good. Monday morning then copied code. Live is nine one on to need. He didn't hello everyone and welcome to new direction. My name is Jay is an Oh man I love it. I love it when I have these great shows. Jake Arrieta is great great but this one you don't get your Alexa Speaker too close to the show because she's probably going to go into some sort of weird type of thing because we're probably gonNA be saying that name a lot. Why am I going to say that? Because I've got the wonderful the outstanding the marvelous magnificent the brilliant Rhonda scarf scarf. Yeah she wrote this book called. Alexa is stealing your job. Turn off your Alexa right now. Nothing you can't some of you. Some of you actually listened to my show on Alexa by the way. Thank you for listening. If you're listening to this show right now on Alexa Hi Hi Hi Alexa. That's just GonNa mess him up right. It's GonNa mess her up because I said Alexa Eh there. I said it again anyway. It's going to be it's going to be awesome. Yeah I've got an Alexa. Yeah you can hear my Alexa at going on for the background. She doesn't even know what to do with the whole thing. It's it's it's awesome so we're going to be. We're going to be talking with her because it's going to be an outstanding show. She's a lot of fun. She's a brilliant speaker and she is going to really lightness S. about what's going on in the world of artificial intelligence and it's going to be fantastic but before we get to her. Let's do what we do every week. Right I want to walk you through the four areas of your life. You know that I believe we are four part people right. We are physical people. We are mental. People were emotional people and we're spiritual people and because of that you know we need to check in every now and then about you know. How are we doing in those areas? So let's do that and skilled went to ten physically one being miserable ten being outstanding out there. Everyone how you doing physically that. What's IT number? KNBR five is average. So you know you better average lower than average right in the you know I always tell you ask the first question asked. Why are you that number? Why are you whatever number? You are outwear you that number and then the second question is what can you do right now to change whatever number. You are right now to the next number because you don't need to get to ten you just need to get to the next number right physically right. So what is what do you need to do right now. Are you eating something you shouldn't. Are you drinking. Something you said are you are are you may not. Maybe you need to get up and get out and do some exercise you you know you could take the show with you on the podcast right and for those of you who listen facebook live. You can actually watch it on your phone. You can listen to cast box. FM Live some of. You can tune in you know later on in the week to Oak Ninety three point five F N I mean there's just so many ways to listen to sean while you're Actually walking around and getting some extra so. There's a lot of ways that you could do things to help improve your physical wellbeing. So what can you do to help you get to that next number. Okay so you got that first number that physical number. What is the second and we're GONNA talk about? Is the mental number right. How're you doing mentally? And what do I mean by that. Well what I mean by that is what are you feeding your brain mentally right. What are you doing to feed yourself? There's two halves of the brain's Ray. We get the right side to bring which is a creative. You know kind of fun side and then we have this logical side the left side of the brain which is more logical and more linear thinking. What are you doing to feed? Both houses rains. What what type? What types hype things? Are you doing to feed that right. It's the same scale miserable tens outstanding. You why are you mentally that way and then what can you change it you know. What can you consume right? What can you read? He'd what can you do. You can pick up an instrument you can learn a foreign language pick up a foreign language those things all bring the whole brain together right because we need to be careful about what we're consuming in order to increase our knowledge wjr because of the more knowledge we have the better. It is for us to make decisions right so so on that scale of one to ten. You got that number that your mental number so you got a physical number and mental number and then the third area of your life is this the emotional aspect right and what I mean by emotional well the emotional aspect of US really talk about it in terms of two types of things right emotional quotient sir emotional intelligence when it comes to psychology. And you know we're talking about here's one how well are you able to control your emotions right. Do the little things the bug you right or can you keep yourself even right when somebody cuts you up traffic. Do you have. Do you immediately respond with that gesture from your right hand. Rakers Robin steering. Well unless you give them a double gesture in that case you know that's even worse right because it tells you how out of control your motions all right. So how are you able to control your emotions because you always have a choice right and then the second part of that is how well you able to really with others right. Are you really to understand their emotions right in in in walk in their shoes and as best as you can right. That's the that's the other piece of this right so I was killed when ten one miserable ten outstanding. How you doing emotionally right? What's that number and same questions? Why are you that way and then you know? What can you do to change that immediately right so you got three numbers you got a physical number? You've got a mental number you got emotional number and then finally only the spiritual area right a lot of people sometimes give me some static about this ritual area. You know the truth of the matter is there's things that we are never going to be able to explain what science right unless you believe that we're just soil soulless creatures. If you believe that were sold as preachers I can't help you from there. But if you believe that we soul if you believe that there's things that we just can't explain if you believe that there's things that science can explain that that touches you somewhere deeper than an emotion that touches you somewhere then place that you don't understand certainly touches you in a way that you can't explain physically. Well that's the spiritual area right and you know we all have ways of being able to deal with their spiritual area for some people. It's God for some people. It's you know nature nature for some people. It's meditation for some people they believe in Karma. There's a number of different things right that people use in order to get themselves re centered and at at peace and so the question is. How's that working for you right? How's that going? Is it going well for you is it is it. Is it working for you right so on that same scale one to ten one being miserable ten being outstanding. How are you doing in spiritual area and then same two questions right? Why are you that way? And what can you do to change it right so you got four four numbers right and the whole thing about this for numbers. It's like sitting in a chair right if the chairs even it's not very comfortable and it doesn't do good things for posture and at the same time if the chairs there's too low it makes things really uncomfortable and we can't be in a really good position to do what we need to do. So let's bring those lights up. You know work on it and then you know. Let's bring it up to the right height so that you can do what you need to do. And that leads me to my next guest. Her name is run the scarf she is a well recognized. She's a well recognized author author and trainer consultant and Both in Ottawa. Canada and Fort Myers Florida Since one thousand nine three. She has worked with tens of thousands of of People in dozens of countries. She specializes in helping others thrive in their work environment using her proven tools and strategies. She's unique folk focused working with your front line support staff by working with the people who actually do the work. She can make a lasting impression on organizational efficiency effectiveness and employee morale Organiz related organizations around the world singer praises for her relevant and useful tips on administration communication and workplace effectiveness. She's amazingly enthusiastic People people just rave about her. She's a certified professional speaking professional. which you know how I feel about you? Know speaking professors like myself in her higher immediately She's a she's also in the certified she's Speaking speakers fame which is great honor and she's the national. She's been served as the national president of the Canadian Associated Professional Professional Speakers and the Global Speaker Federation. And of course she's been in who's who since nineteen ninety eight of professional speakers but she is absolutely magnificent. Everybody please welcome come to the show and what goes to show Rhonda scarf stay. It's wonderful to be here. Thank you very much. Thank you so Ronda. He wrote this book and it is is an outstanding book. It's called Alexa. Is Stealing your job and I and there goes my Alexa again. Every time I said so there she goes so if you hear if you hear her in the back I may just have to refer this to my echo device from here on out because every time I say that word feeling everybody who listens to this show is going to get the same problem. So I'll say quietly. Alexa is stealing your job. That's what's going on there The book is outstanding. I thought one of the things I loved about reading this book. And it's it's a very fast read. I thought it would. It just flowed so well at once. They started couldn't put it down and next thing I knew I was done. And so it was fantastic so very well written. Congratulations one of the one of the things I really enjoyed about three. And and is that you really really. They do make a case for us to say look. Artificial intelligence is coming and we can't stop it. And matter of fact I want to quote you as something because I love it win on page seven which favorite number which you say? I'm hoping that after reading this book you'll be in a better place to make yourself relevant and I love that win. Authors will go out on record and say this rhyme writing this book. Because this book isn't to scare you this book isn't the frighten you. This book is to help become relevant. So why don't we just jump in with you in here and get to know artificial intelligence elegance and Alexa just in case our echo devices. When did you? Why don't you tell us what what should we? How do we define it at? What should we know you know how do we? Because it's more than just write that echo device correct. Yeah yeah absolutely so really artificial intelligence estimate to make it fairly simple. Is when your machine whether you want to call it your echo device or your google vice or whatever it happens to be has the ability not to show intelligence and that's a little bit different from a computer so computer will do what you tell it to do. So control P print unit control troll s safe so it follows instructions but a I has the ability to not just follow instructions. But figure out what you mean and learn from that so like if you take your echo device and and you know you say what's the temperature outside. She's going to respond until you. What the temperature outside is but she's also going join to learn that you might be able to say is a cold outside and she's going to say yeah it's cold outside or it is thirty eight degrees or whatever it happens to be and so oh? She develops natural thinking she develops and I say she because we're talking about her They developed the ability to problem. Solve to learn to understand to almost intuitively figure out what you're trying to do. So she's not really like a computer where like I said controlled P. means print control s means say like they're they're taught very clear functions and much like the way people have natural intelligence. Ai is developing that intelligence. From what it does it's learning. Yeah it is. I don't think people realize that if you own one of these devices and it's not I know it's not just a LEX. I know that it's certainly lots. You know Google's got their own Sarah set of everything to and I. There's there's several out there but I think if you own one of these devices the thing that you quickly learn is about them is that they understand more and more of what you're saying and and so all of a sudden thinking about the possibility becomes limitless. Now I use mine all the time I mean I clearly have one in every room and it's because is this She's got I call her. Is that wrong is calling her to okay. I don't know if that's wrong because I know it's not I mean I I I don't want to call it it and because I'm afraid while it's listening independent So no I call her. So it's nothing personal we'll maybe it is. I don't know anyway. So but but she you know she schedules. She's scheduled my calendar for me when I'm in a hurry. She gets groceries for me. She reminds joins me of things she said. When I do all the cooking in the house she sits on my timers she you know my wife uses her as her alarm clock because she doesn't have to set an alarm clock all she's got to do is tell her what she wants to get up right so and she and she learns different commands right? You don't just have to say stop. You can say off you. You're right. They're just she's picking up on things all the time and the more you talk to her the more she is expanding this this range right that she does and I don't know that people understand that and I don't think people appreciate and maybe that's a poor choice of words but I don't think people appreciate just how vast and powerful she can be do they. Yeah no I I really agree. I think a lot of people think that she's just a computer and she's just responding on what she's been taught but if you have multiple people in your house to like in my house I have my husband and his name is Warren and Warren can say to Alexa. Who speaking and she'll say I'm talking to Warren? Like she knows who she's he's talking to and my son is Christopher and I can say. Call Chris and she knows exactly who I'm talking about are I'll call my son and she knows that that's Christopher for and she will call him and so there's there's just they really do learn and the more you use them. The more they learned now that you know can be good it can be bad but they the more you maximize. Don't use them as a really nice speaker because they have really good speaker systems. Bet You used them to do stuff they really are gonNA benefit everything you do all men at work. I agree and you make code impeach. Nineteen that I want to quote you on and I want you to expand on because this is a question I think a lot of listeners Well not a lot but I would say a good portion right well. That is a lot because I have a lot of support. A lot of they're all over the world and they're probably going because because you said and it's artificial intelligence should not make you fear the future it should. It should make you look forward to it with anticipation. Do you mind talking about that expanding on that because I think people need to be put at ease about this. I mean. We're trying to do this but I would love you to go ahead and dig into that deeper so hey I is going to make your life easier if you figure out what you do on and Monday to Friday or a Saturday or Sunday. There's so much of your day that that is mandated that you must do this at a certain time we we're very task based and so. Let's just take a Saturday you know. Typically people aren't going to work on Saturday night. Everybody and so you get up and you you think okay. I've got to do laundry. I've got some groceries. I've got to get the grass cut like I've got a vacuum to clean the house. You know like you've got all these things that your day off is no longer a day day off and if you think about where artificial intelligence can come in is it can take away a lot of that boring mundane stuff. Like for instance in my house. It's not ai yet but it will be I have one of those robotic vacuum cleaners. So it's called a Roomba Roomba. Yeah Yeah Rumba Rumba and so yeah and so right now. It's not right now. So it's set right now. That every Wednesday at nine o'clock vacuums my house but wouldn't it be nice if I didn't even the need to set it like it. All of a sudden looks and goes holy cow. This floor needs a good wash. It needs to get back in ended automatically. Does it for me like wouldn't wouldn't it be nice if I cook or you. You know Friday night I sit down and have dinner and we open the last bottle of wine and then Saturday morning I get up and what's sitting on. My front step is only groceries including new wine because my I knew I drank the last bottle of wine in the house and this is the kind of WanNa have house like it's going to open up our day so that we're not doing all of those time. Can it can cut your grass can. Do you know it could potentially do. Your laundry can be so many things that we have to do because it's part of keeping up with life and if all of that goes away don't get to enjoy life a little bit more like we would have time to be more social. We would have time to exercise. We'd have time to do the things that we want to do. Instead of the things we have to do you okay. So can I play devil's advocate just a little bit with please. Absolutely it was okay. I mean because we're on the same page but ultimately I'm just doing this because I feel like well. I know that I have listeners. Who Oh but Rhonda Rondo Rondo? Rondo Rondo Rana now. I know you don't understand. I even hate it that when I go to Amazon and then go to Google Google that they're all of a sudden. Get feeding the advertisements of something. Similar that I just looked at Amazon data even bothers me. I don't need my vacuum cleaner to all of sudden wake up and decide you know what not your decision but your house is dirty. I'm a little uncomfortable with that helped me. Yeah I and I I understand that people don't like if you bought this you'll like that. But but the reason they don't like it is not that the suggestions aren't helpful because I most people most people say you know they're actually right like I I do like that But what they feel afraid is is the big brother thing they feel that somebody's watching them or somebody's telling them their houses dirty well. It is so so clean it you know and and so yeah. They don't like it but I think that they don't like the messages that they're receiving that somebody's watching them. Somebody's judging them. Somebody he's saying you need this instead of that and I think that once we realized that it's not a person judging you that your house is too dirty or not a person. Judging you that you need to buy more of this or whatever it happens it is it really is designed to make your life easy like think about when you go into the grocery store and you know you need groceries stories right and let's be honest most people even if they write a list. Although I don't think most people do they still leave it on the counter and so you get to the grocery store and you end up walking through every aisle. Oh and if you're hungry you're going to buy way more than you need and you're going to get to the cash and go. Oh my God what was I thinking and you bring stuff home and of course stuff rots in your fridge because you're hungry hungry when you bought it and you just bought an impulse now. If your grocery shopping was done based on a I you wouldn't have extra things that you don't need. You wouldn't spend forty five minutes in the grocery store. Mike it would know that you use the last of of the butter so another pound of butter is going to get shipped to your house. You're not gonNA have fourteen of them in your house because you don't need fourteen pounds of butter you know and so it's going to be able to keep track of your inventory and do that automatically for you. Yup people don't like it. You can devil's advocate because they don't like that something is watching but if you look at the bigger picture that's something just in your life a whole lot easier. That's that's awesome her name. Is Ron the scarf and her book is entitled. Alexa is stealing your job and you can hear my Alexa going on again. She and she's joining here here with us on a new direction. It's amazing isn't it. Hey by the way a new direction is brought brought to you by our brand new sponsor this month their epic physical therapy whether you're recovering from an injury or surgery or you're suffering everyday aches and pains or maybe a professional athlete. Ah and you just trying to get back into the game. Look or perhaps you're just wanting to improve how you feel. The elite team at epic physical therapy will provide you with a customized treatment plan tailored to to your individual needs with their experience in rehabbing young athletes to elite professionals. And I'm I'm not. I'm serious about that. They are under. They understand the need to treat. The entire body is the functional whole. Not just your sims or your injury. EPOCH RELIEF EPIC Recovery Epoch results. That's what you're GONNA get when you go see epic Physical Cup folks at epic physical therapy and you can learn more by going to. WWW DOT epoch e. p. c. p. t. dot com and also. Linda craft. The team realtors. No matter where you're at in the world they can help you find the right expert. They best expert to help you sell your home or buy. Your home doesn't matter. They have been in the business. Is this for over thirty five years and they there's a reason why they are known as the legends of Customer Service when it comes to real estate so why not start right away regardless of where you're at on when it comes is to your home-buying needs start with the folks and the experts. The professionals at Linda Craft and team realtors you learn more by going to. WWW dot. Linda Linda Craft L. A. N. D. A. C. R. A. F. T. DOT COM. And we thank them for bringing a ron scarf here on a new direction and and we're back here on a new direction with Rhonda scarf in her book. Alexa is stealing your job. And I'm about to get into some of the This this part of the book that was extraordinarily challenging for me and I think will be challenging for everyone else I wanna again. I'm going to do another quote on page thirty two because I love what you say I let me. Let's on what you write is good so I'm going to say you should see doug. I don't think people can see if you're watching live on facebook. There's I don't know if you could see how dog-eared this book is but it's so dog-eared because I think I turned around every other page Corner we can stick our heads in the sand and refused to adapt to artificial intelligence which will also mean refusing to adjust to the changing needs of our customers. And I thought that when you made that quote I thought you know. I don't know how many people are going to really understand that the customer is yes our basic basically we are still human. Don't get right. The four areas of the life that life that I went over still apply. They always well. We're still going to be physical mental emotional spiritual people regardless of regardless of how we wanNA believe about that. That's always going to be true but as a consumer we're changing and because I had an interaction with my thirty one year old son and his fiancee and we were in Philadelphia last week and and he said to me you know what I just WanNa talk to anybody. I don't want to have to deal with people. I would rather the convenience of not having to deal with. People is so much easier I didn't I didn't want to negotiate for my house negotiated once and I said this isn't worth it. It's not worth my stress regardless regardless of what the money is and they would rather interact with almost artificial intelligent things and you go through here from page thirty three two page Salute eighty seventy two Santa pages going through the percentage of likelihood that your job is about to become artificially intelligent and by the way. I'm just doing this because I've got some people I got people who I know. Join US and they want to know is my industry in there so let me just allow me just indulge me a little bit here. Rhonda can give people who I know what they do. If you're an an insurance underwriter you have a ninety nine percent chance of your job being taken over. If you are a real estate agent you have a about a ninety seven percent chance of your job being taken over new. You're watching it happen. You know you are real estate agents. If you're a dental laboratory technician ninety seven percent chance of your job stop being taken over if you're cashier ninety seven percent chance of a takeover. If you are a restaurant cook ninety six percent cent chance. Unless you're really good right let let me let me let me go down a little bit deeper here all right. You want some good news correctional officer you have a sixty percent chance of being taken over if you're a commercial pilot fifty five percent chance. Let me dig down here a little bit deeper just to give you view. If you're if you're a business manager and agent urine artists perform an athlete. You Got Twenty four percent chance of losing your job. Artificial intelligence manager's twenty-five percent chance public relations specialists eighty percent chefs in head cooks ten percent. So you're good there. I love this radio. uh-huh and television announcers ten percent. Hey Hey hey you wanna keep me employed and keep artificial intelligence. Jump listen to the show and tell everybody else about it. Okay in Gimme good reviews fitness. Trainers you're in good shape. Eight point five percent musicians and singers seven point four. Although I wish some of you would be taken over by artificial intelligent. Ah as as a practicing psychological professionalized sociologists we're at five point nine percent and writers and authors which Ronda. Ira If there's good news and bad news. Good news is we got a three point. Eight percent chance. The bad news is we have nobody reading so physical therapists folks looks at epoch. Two point one percent chance. You're doing just fine but I mean the point was the point that I think you're making here I did. I went a little overboard on these jobs. But hopefully everybody's gotten taste for some of it but the point of the matter is artificial intelligence is either gonNA take take job or it's GonNa take part of your job and and this is a hard pill for people to swallow and in you make an argument here and I'm GonNa and let you make it that this doesn't mean that you're out of work. What does it mean? It means that you're jobs going to change. So if you've got say a sixty percent probability ability it's not that it's not really that your job is going to be taken over it. They're sixty percent of your job. That can be done by or there's ten percent of your job that can be done so so that means if sixty let's say there's a whole lot at the ninety nine percent category right like pretty much. The entire job can be taken over by some type of artificial intelligence or some kind of computerization. So let's say you lose eighty percent of your job so obviously if you're going to maintain your job eighty percent of its going to disappear seve only got twenty percents. You better darn good at that twenty percent and then you've got to be able to pick up now that you've got eighty percent you know air quotes more time. What are you going to do? That's going to provide a whole lot more value to your organization. So it's not like everybody's about to get fired you know that's not necessarily the case but there's a big piece of your job that's potentially going to disappear so let's just use real estate because Linda craft is sponsor right so yes a lot of that can be done people shop for houses online. You can get audit you. You can get houses now like you say this is what I want. And they're gonNa send you that and let's be honest for those of us that have ever gone how shopping the purchase is almost made before you walk in the door. You're just confirming walking in the door right so a lot of that can be computerized already. So if a real estate agent can take out rotate eighty percents of their time consuming stuff and they still have twenty percent of what they need to do the negotiation or whatever it is than they need to that eighty he percents is going to open them up to be that much better at the twenty percent that counts so they're not spending all day long showing the houses to people that are never going to buy a house. They're not showing houses to people that will not qualify for a mortgage because all of that can be taken care of by a computer by an ai but what they will do is spend the time making sure that you get the best deal. It's priced at the right price. Point like get the best marketing and that really is where their money is made so it opens them up to be able to do much more so thinking about that. The probability there's over seven hundred jobs listed in that list. The probability is is that much of it might disappear which means you need to now prove your value to your organization by replacing that with something that I cannot do and make you a far more valuable piece of real estate for your company. A little bit Her name is Rhonda scarf and the book entitled is Stealing Your Job at. She heard she heard it anyway. I'm still having trouble connecting with that. You see yeah you're hearing you're hearing her in the background. I'm going to have to say something different. That is funny though you know. Nobody ever thought about this. That people were GONNA listen to my show on her and and every time I say her you know she's going to say something like the book though is outstanding read I I want I really am encouraging the book available Amazon. Your favorite bookstore. It doesn't matter The book is fabulous. And and you should. You should get The one of the things I love about your book is that you ask it's called Cues ask intelligent questions and you. The first thing you say is grab a pen. Answer the questions blow and you ask people these questions about. How's your job changed over the past twenty three years and to be very specific about it because we need to start identifying or new start need to start looking at how these artificial intelligent devices you know what? How have they changed? I mean I I have been involved in this thing when before. Computers really were part of the Internet right when they first started again on the Internet. People for instance didn't understand the marketing aspects and it was part of that early run and then when I when social media came out I became part of that early early run as well as an early adopter and and people in every level than I've ever been at this is when I is included. They've all said my job. Doesn't you know it's never going back to me. You know what my business i. In my first book I remember writing in Got Social Meteorology the story of the lady who did real estate and you know she said why. Are you wasting your time. You know putting your houses up on the Internet. Nobody's ever buy a house on the Internet. Ever and then a year later she was no longer in the real estate industry and and then I had somebody I remember when I was coming out in twitter and facebook and I was telling people telling you this is going to be. This is the next evolution in it. It just makes sense between the Internet and AIM team member. Aim Right right right. We combine those two things together. Telling you it's the next evolution and everybody went. Nobody's going. Nobody's ever going to do that. Nobody's GonNa care five billion people later right and nobody's GonNa Care Right. The fact that matters this is this is the next evolution rather than rather than US having to do it. We're going to ask to have it done four and you know you make such a beautiful point in this book that this has been a natural progression Russian for us in evolution for us even since the time you know go back to Aristotle We've always dreamed about things that will do things for us so that we can reduce man's effort or that may can spend his time on. Am I say man. I don't mean that as mail okay. So don't commute eight male. I mean as mankind If womankind feels better to find a I'll use that too but as humankind has seemed kind work for everybody out okay but the the point is that as humans Week be spending more time doing things that are more important to do. That are Are are better for work and I think that's part of the thing that you're saying here too. Is You know you need to start looking at your work and going okay. We'll where is your value. If what parts of your what parts of your job can be done artificially intelligently and then what parts of you can cannot and you need to start figuring. We need to start figuring that out pretty quickly. Don't we. Yes absolutely and would give us. It gives some strategies. How should we go about trying to figure this whole thing out you can you? Can you provide strategies. Help US figure out how to get there. Yeah and I think I think some of that's going to change and I hate to say this out loud because it's going to impact me as well depending on your age. So if I'm in my mid fifties we'll just lose that and so so that meant that like you. I started working before we had computers. I remember when you turn on your dumb terminal on your desk and twenty minutes later. You'd get this little green flashing letter C.. See you know and and so at that point I if you look from the eighties to now obviously there's a very long period of time in there and you can see how much has changed and and you've seen the evolution so for those of you that are fifty sixty seventy years old. I want you to be really honest and look back from when you started work right out of college. Judge to wherever you are now. What have you honestly seen change? And when you when you hit sort of the mid nineteen eighties. You're going to see a massive move forward at that point because that's when we got computers and then in the nineties. We got the Internet in the late nineties. Early two thousands. We got email and we got our cell phones and then everything got wired like when you look at sort of mid nineteen eighties to now. There's been a massive speed if you were to write a little bit of a time line on how fast things of moved in the last even just ten years. So whether you're in your fifties or in your twenties I want you to look back at the last ten years for those of you can go back twenty thirty forty years and do a time time line and say to yourself. What are the odds are that we're done? Moving the sideline like zero. This timeline is going to continue to grow. And if you look from the seventies to the eighties to the nineties ninety two the two thousand to the twenty where we are look at how fast things get replaced so then when you sort of scare yourself to death by looking at at that then I want you to look at your job over the last ten years and I want you to say what hasn't changed and what are the odds that we're going to go even another five years and that's not going to change like pretty low so when you really look at how much change we've had in the workplace in her life place and like I said scare yourself with that and then look at what has remained stagnant and then be really honest and say what are the odds of desma going to change its zero. So they're going to change so then you start looking at the things that hasn't changed and say how are we gonNA change that. I don't know I don't necessarily know how it's going to change. You don't necessarily know how a change but I do know that it's going to change and so if you can become an early adopter you're all over the place. I people frayed. You know. I've I've always heard that. Fear is a paralyzed. Her right. I mean and we get so paralyzed by fear and then we go into denial all right and denial is the acronym that means. Don't even know I am lying. Okay and and so often. We don't know that we're lying to ourselves elves and but it's fear that does by the way I have to give my wife credit for that. So that's great. I like it. Okay I do. She gives me all these great little acronyms and I do. I do have to give her actually credit for that And by the way we're talking if you're joining us right now we're talking to Rhonda scarf. Her Book. Alexa is stealing doing your job. And you're not going to hear her this time because I plugged her and The impact of artificial intelligence on your future. It's available on Amazon bookstores everywhere. If they they don't have it. You need to tell them you need to get this in because this is going to be a game changer. There's GonNa be a life changer. This is going to be a career changer. For All of us in that are having to deal with and understand artificial intelligence and run. It doesn't amazing job of breaking it down and not only breaking it down but really helping you come up with ways to understand how you can not well let her tell that piece but not not to be afraid of it not to be going to be out of a job but how you can utilize it to be part of your job and she. She does that so beautifully. Well here so in my when I I. I'm based out of North Carolina Research Triangle Park here in North Carolina and of course You devote chapter five to you are little town of cary which is a tremendously successful successful small town. Well it's not a small town some pretty big. It's it's a reasonable size down and because I'll get I'll get all sorts of email from them to In in backlash but you the chapters entitled jobs changing will you be blockbuster or Kerry. We don't listen blockbuster screwed up multiple times. But what is Keri got right so Kerry. It's IT's North Carolina it's the seventh largest municipality so it's not a big large city that potentially a lot of people have heard of but what they have done they've done their CIO geico one by the name of Nicole Ramandan and probably seeing her name. Wrong and I apologized but she she really did some smart things in what they've created created is what's called a smart city so they have all kinds of technology in this city on the way that it runs and the way that it's looking to the future so it kind of it it has computerized electronic dies. Artificial intelligence is in verb Everything and so. They have a platform where they can see three hundred sixty degrees of all of their parks all of their recreation all of their payment and all of their parking all of their roads. They have skills already created for Amazon Alexa Echo. And so that instead of calling and calling in the city you can actually say Alexa. Could you please contact Kerry and put in a permit. I want to do X.. To my backyard or something along those lines so all of that is already working on Amazon Echo it it uses smart parking smart recycling it uses chat bots. It uses smart city a smart lighting and so all of the things that they've put into play which is incredible will equal five trillion dollars worth the value back to this not overly large city but not bad improving the quality of life and so it really is one of the smartest cities in the United States. On how how we're providing municipal services to its tax payers and. They're doing a fantastic job. It is I I didn't know to what level until I Rachel but I live right next door to it right. I didn't know what I didn't know. What level they had gone to and then you know when i read everything that they were doing it was like? Oh my gosh you yeah well. It's it's so impressive By the press. It's it's really impressive. How they're doing and they're gonNA save a whole bunch of money and they're gonNA MAKE GONNA make? Improvements is going to be amazing We're talking with Rhonda scarf author of this book. Alexa is stealing your job and it is absolutely fantastic degree. Get it at Amazon local bookstore. It's available on kindle and paperback absolutely fabulous. I'm suspecting because she's a speaker that should also be probably having this thing inaudible at some point two. Yeah and she's joining us here on new direction. Hey listen a new direction is brought to our sponsor epic physical therapy whether that they are a facility that offers the most advanced top of the line equipment including the alter g anti gravity treadmill norm attack depressing sleeve game ready just to name a few. They are trained and certified the most cutting edge treatments available including blood flow restriction. Therapy dry needling coming just to name a few you can learn how they can make if your life more epoch by just going to epoch. PT Dot Com. It's F. Back EP. Icy P. T. DOT COM and of course the craft and team realtors located located here in the Research Triangle Park. But they can help you anywhere in the world when it comes to selling or buying your home they can help you find the right professional for to to buy or sell the right home. Because they've been around for thirty five years they stay in contact with all of them. They are networked to so well in some of the best possible ways to help you you find the right professional experts to help you sell your home. And of course located in Raleigh North Carolina. You can always drop in at seventy three hundred six road and you know what they're gonNA hand you a free bottle water. I promise promise you they will. Because that's what they do. Every time anybody walks in run here bottle water So that's what they do and you know what for thirty five years. They are known as the legends of Customer Service. You should find out why and you can do that by going to Linda. CRAFT DOT COM. That's www dot. Linda craft land a CR F. T. DOT COM and they're bringing you a new direction and we end around the scarf and thank them for that and we're here on a new direction with Rhonda scarf author of Alexa Stealing your job and mm yeah. How's that going for Ya? You feel good about yourself right you probably probably people who are GONNA. I'm scared to death. Dang it Rhonda you scare. You're scaring me. That Alexis can steal my job. Yeah she is she better figure it out So I love doing that I just I don't know why I just. It was just kind of fun because people now going on. What do I do well? That's why I've got run the scarf here with me what to do right. I mean. That's the reason. Why have you here is because people are scared you say in Chapter Seven and I love it trainers explainers and sustain owners and You you say this quote wrote or I. It's actually. I think it was gartner mine who bought from CNBC. Robots are not here. Take away jobs. They're here to give us a promotion so so help us understand that enters explainers sustains. Okay so I as much as I love the title Alexis de when your job is just one of those things that came to me one Monday but I'm actually not trying to scare everybody. I really think bats a I. It's just a great title but a I is really here to give us a promotion ocean and again if you look at her history like when we started automating things in the fifties where we had a factory lines. Remember that Old Funny Skit with Lucy and Ethel on the chocolate factory line in there watching the little chocolates goal. One by one. We had people that did that rate. I can't imagine what it would be like to do. One of those jobs for forty years. I like never mind the chocolate and Lucy. NEFF look like they had a good time but but working on a factory line so when factory lines got automated in the fifties. What they did is they took out a level of low tech or low paying or low quality jobs and all of those people found other other jobs because those jobs were mechanic they were robots they were all of that and then when computers came in the same thing happened so we used to have data entry clerks clerk's we used to have typing pools we used to have you know? Those are entry level jobs and when computers came in a lot of those jobs disappeared while. Ai is going to do the same thing so a is going to take away the part of your job that gets in the way of you doing your job like think about those days when you're you know you're crazy busy and and you just don't know what's going on and go home and you sit down on the couch and you say to your partner like Oh my God. I'm exhausted and they say would you do all day and you're like I don't know because you didn't get anything done. You're doing all that task based stuff that gets in the way of doing the function of our job so even think about putting together your radio show showed. There's so many little minutia pieces so that you can do this one hour of content but there's way more than one hour required to get this one hour out there right and so if if you could get rid of all that little stuff think how many different programs you can put out every week like you can do several because you wouldn't have to do all all the task based stuff so what it does is it takes away all the stuff that eats at our time so that we can't do the things that are really valuable valuable to us and to other people into the organization. so that's the promotions so think about taking away all the repetitive time consuming mundane tasks so that you can really do the stuff that you want to do that. What brought you into radio? What brought you into real estate? What brought you into physiotherapy therapy? What brought you into medicine? Brought you into teaching. What brought you into administration like that's the stuff we want to do? But it's all the. Yuck that we that eats away our turn and that's why we're going to get a promotion because that stuff is going to disappear. I don't think people that way though I know I I don't I I don't think they do. I think there is an I. I don't know what I'm doing here but I'm just throw this out here so maybe you can help these folks. Maybe how about if I put when you you know what Dr Scarf. Here's what we're going to we're going to achieve the psychologist here for a second and There are some mom and pop shops that you know that locally owned small business really small businesses right. I mean that have didn't mom dad family. These family owned businesses. That are scared to death going. What's going to happen to me And and And we're trying to reassure them right that it's it's GonNa be okay but you're also telling me that they may not need me and if this thing gets so big what's going to happen to my family owned business of you Komo X.. Number of years was GonNa Happen to me because I don't know they can afford all this technology. I don't know they can afford all this artificial intelligence. I think what you're going to find. Is that artificial intelligence. This is going to just come in. There may not necessarily be a big ticket price with it. And I'm not saying it's GONNA be free but it's kind of like the Internet is kind of like free you pay for the service in your house right back but all that stuff just gets given to you for free like Google doesn't cost you a dime whereas used to have to buy encyclopedia. Britannica cost you a fortune right and so I think that there's going to be a lot of AI. But when you look at the MOM and dad small business would they have to do is recognize that the product. Let's say they're selling. Let's say it's retail service the product anybody's going to be able to get anywhere and we can do. That now. Amazon sells everything. But the reason I'm going to go to that mom and pop is because of the relationship ship that I will get with the fact that I've known that they've owned the store for fifty years and it was their parents in front of them. And I'm going to go for the relationship and I will never have a relationship up with a Chat Bot. I'm never going to feel that connection so I may go out of my way to go to your store to go to your restaurant to go to your company because I know number one. You know who I am number two when I walk in the door you like. Hey Ronda here's what exactly I saw this yesterday and I thought of you and so it's really only about the service end the relationship so I actually think that we're going to see more of a change in the let's just just take retail is example. WE'RE GONNA lose the big box stores and the big box stores are all going to go online because you know you don't go to Walmart because you everybody feels great when they walk into Walmart it you know like you go to Walmart because it's convenient and so when everything just shows up in your front door that's going to be convenient but I'm going to go out of my way to go to your store because of the relationship relationship that you and I have so. I think that this gives the mom and pop the opportunity to provide something that online and a I cannot provide nine relationship. You know what that is so wow did you. People listen to her because she she nailed it. So we're in Philadelphia last week and we go into the store whose name. I don't know that I can mention on the air but there is a Christmas Smith show about thirty four street that they got an argument with and it's a big huge department store and it's four letters and it rhymes with Lacey's okay and and and so my wife walks in to this giant store and nobody's willing to helper upper. There's nobody to help her. She wants to buy some shoes. She can't find anybody helper so she finds something that she wasn't she. She found something else and she wanted to check out. Couldn't find anybody. Check her out. She had to go up to the second floor where she was at another four in order to find some check around and then we walk into a boutique store by the way the store that rhymes with Lacey's was pretty much empty and by the way people didn't care that we were in the store they just in. My wife loves to Boutique Shop. She loves little boutique. Shops little boutique stores. We walk in the door. Little Boutique Stores People in the store. And the first thing somebody says hi how are you. How's your day? If there's anything I can do to help you just police Lisa at otherwise just look around and enjoy or right and left on a compare those things. Because you're right what's going to happen even is with all this. Artificial intelligence is is the big box stores king all go online because we are customer service anyway but the reason why takes exist is because maybe they can get a few unique unique. Did you hear what I said. Unique maybe a few more unique items that you know. Maybe the online places are not going to spend the extra money because there's not as many them in existence and so you can find something unique but you're going to get an experience a customer experience that says we care about you on every level and you know that if your small business owner that's where you should have some hope MHM absolutely you're going to be able to make your business run. Smoother potentially more profitable because of all the systems that are in place. But you're going to be Very easily able to distinguish why you're better than everybody. That looks the same Oh Gosh Ronda Ron. That's beautiful because I think you know what again. Thank the genius because you know. Eventually all of these artificial intelligent stores are going to look exactly the same what. You're not gonNA distinguish Walmart from Amazon outside. That Amazon may be bigger. But you really not going to distinguish distinguish that. You're not going to distinguish any of these major stores. Even the one that rhymes with Lacey's from any other online store. You're not going to be able to do that because they're just gonNA warehouse everything everybody's GonNa have the same stuff you're gonNA do. Price comparisons matter of fact. You're probably GONNA ask Alexa price could put what's the best price that can find absolutely. You're not even going to have to ask. She's GonNa know. Get it from year. You'd get it from here. Where's the cheapest place I can buy X.? Right she's GonNa know but the beautiful thing about that is because they're gonNA look all the same. The the boutique the MOM and pop shop. The the customer service driven unique shop is going to be a place where people will go. Oh but I can go here and get out this beautiful I mean is there something I don't know about you but I just I just heard something beautiful about that actually. Yeah yeah and I think it applies to everything outside of retail is well like part of the reason. Radio hosts are not going to be. Ai Is because only you have you know JAS personality. You're the only one that can do this. And people are going to listen to you because they like you. I don't want to listen to a radio show. That actually has Alexa doing it. Because I know that Alexis not real and so that's emotional. Intelligence is one of the most sought after skills moving into twenty twenty which they were six weeks away and so the ability to connect the ability to have that relationship. The ability to Provide a different the level of relationship. That is not the same everywhere is part of the promotion that we're going to beginning and so if you're in a business look at wet set your personality. What your relationships can provide that? They can't get online. That's GonNa make you stand out so that's part of the promotion it's coming. I think this is an appropriate time. Believe it or not. I've never had a show where I've had a guest on friend. Sorry he no longer guest. Your friends who've been on long long enough for Francis where all of a sudden literally in our chatting about your book where literally led right into something something that's appropriate and I'm GonNa read it 'cause you quoted by my Angelou. I've learned that people will forget what you said people will forget. Get what you did but people will never forget how you made them feel favorite favorite call. Yeah I mean I mean there's there in right is the. There's the answer to artificial intelligence. Isn't it she. She's got the answer she didn't know it but she she answered everything. How do you how do you get how do we? How do we get people to? How do we compete with it? Was She just give you the answer. Yes then she. Yeah so if you go back to the example that used of your son and he doesn't WanNa talk to people and he just wants to negotiate. There's a very big part of our life that we all just want simplicity. We just want it easy. We just WANNA see press click and it works but at the end of the day were all still real. People and people need a different degrees but people need people and it's all about relationships that's what business is about. It's about relationships relationships so when I need convenience is going to be fantastic when I need relationship. The relationships the people the independence wants is going to be very successful. Because that's why I want beautiful. Her name is Rhonda scarf and She's written this book. That's available Amazon bookstores everywhere. Alexa is stealing your job. The impact of artificial intelligence on your future Rhonda. We have have been on almost an hour and it feels like just a few seconds and I have enjoyed you so much and I just can't thank you enough for being on the show you've been you've been a pleasure and enjoy and it's been just so much fun chatting with you. I am not GonNa put you on the spot but I don't think it's GonNa be that big for you because I think I'm going to put this on a tee for you. Actually so I always ask all my friends at the end of the show The show is called a new direction because we try to help people find a new direction in their life or their career their business or sometimes games all three if Rhonda scarf my new friend Kid leave my friends out there who are listening to the show with a new direction based on the book Alexa Stealing your job. What would run to scarf? Say Man. I've got one hundred pages of what I say. Ah I would say like all of the things that have come before. Ai Those people that jump on early enough are going. I'm to be very very successful with what it is and so I say right now. The fact that you're listening in your in our into it means that you have some kind of interest in what this means so oh move forward. Learn something new if you don't have an Amazon Echo or you don't have a hey google or you don't use Siri Cortana or any start. Stop telling yourself that this is just a passing fad. It'll never work. It is one hundred percent going to work so be willing to be open to what it can do. Keep Your eyes open to the possibilities and if you get dragged ragged in kicking and screaming. It's it's it's going to be a horrible thing for you but if you're willing to say you know what I not only am going to be open to this. I'm going in to look at how me might department like company my organization my family my country. My whatever can be better because of it and jump and and go there. Don't go kicking and screaming and there's your new direction action folks folks are named Rondo scarf. The book Alexis Dealing Aja Vailab all over the place. Please just get the book it's going to. It's going to enlighten. It's going to inspire you and she's got so many great little questions to ask yourself to help you kind of you know not be afraid of it work alongside these machines which is going to be awesome Folks you know what I say every week right. I say be inspired. Because when you're inspired that means you will inspire someone else in turn. They can inspire others and that can make this world of most marvelous place place to live in. I'm going to be back next week. With another Van tastic guests and I always appreciate him so grateful for all of you listening all over the world and Oliver this country that I get to live and and I thank you so much and as I say every week and you know what it is chow everybody Ascalon when you balanced your confidence and it has don accents. It's got to cave. y'All got you know you cancer. This is your the brand new. AH THINGS GONNA change to a different way in your in a new direction. The new sheriff brand new the new things to go to a the time has come a Muda Ah

Alexa Rhonda Rondo Rondo Amazon US Google facebook Alexa Eh Jake Arrieta Ai Linda Linda Craft L. A. N. D. North Carolina Philadelphia Linda Craft Oak Ninety Customer Service
"Tim Tam Slam" UCAP1012

Uncontrolled Airspace: General Aviation Podcast

1:25:06 hr | 6 months ago

"Tim Tam Slam" UCAP1012

"Video Killed Radio Star Them I know. That's the. And Thomas Dolby. Is the is the author of our lately departed theme song. Everyone, thinks it was. that. It was. What's his name? The Sledgehammer Guy and. Peter Gabriel. Gabriel. But of course, and of course, it ultimately was Peter Gabriel that we stole that that that music that that tune from. But. I literally directly stole is such A. Harsh term I did a little mash up. All right. Only I didn't do a mash up of Gabriel I never actually ever used audio that came from Peter Gabriel. I The mash up that created the theme like fifteen years ago. was was me Matt doing a mash up of a Thomas Dolby Mash up of sledgehammer. And I can't say for a fact that Thomas Dolby hadn't sampled some of the original sledgehammer stuff but I didn't sample any actual sledgehammer stuff I it was all Thomas Dolby stuff. And but we haven't used that now a few months since we've. Since we've had our change of life. What are we using? where? You don't listen to the PODCAST and I've heard our brand new. Ward winning Jack. Jack. Yeah. You still there I'm here. Okay. I wasn't sure if that was a sign that he couldn't hear anymore now. We don't have seen song right now. We've been we've been kind of going commando and. That's That's the title right they're going commando. No, there's been no theme song. There's been relatively little audio after you know sh postproduction. Adding stuff that we've been. We've we've gone back to the disclaimers for you know as you know, we had these really cool disclaimers were contributed by listeners over the years and we kind of drifted away from using the cool ones, and perhaps recklessly we can. We drifted away from using the disclaimer in in any form. Because fifteen years later, nobody tried to sue US which I don't know if I'm actually hurt by that. But anyways. we're we're GONNA actually erase this entire part of. This will never make it out into the While we'll see I control ours all I control vertical anyways. You control paying for the attorneys to okay so We. But I have started since the change of life I have started using disclaimers again just because there are fun and and and it didn't so long since we've heard a lot of them so yeah we should Gilbert Godfrey to record one for. Women Gilbert Godfried is is is on the isn't he a a metoo victim? Not Dictum Metoo a bad guy. He may be yeah. I just flashed on the idea of. What was this guy's name? Comedy screamer. Lewis Bobcat. Goldthwait now. He's dead now. Oh Yeah. The the Pseudo Evangelise Guy Oh, Sam Kennison. That's it. That's. Yeah. Okay. Him Reading The disclaimer. Okay, well, that will that would be even more difficult but you know we have talented listeners. You never know what might appear in our email at some point we could always try seance see what comes out of that. I will put a Lincoln the show notes to the text of the disclaimer script and And if anybody. Revisit that and send it to us as as an attachment to that would be I would. That's GONNA be. That'd be kind of cool. Talking about things that you can play with at home I'm David What's this runway? I thought that was a very good say what are you talking about? Just different. I'm sorry I'm just in a different mood today. So I guess. So David what is the FAA's new runway safety simulator all about. Runway safety pilot simulator welcome to. The here, and now this in the future this is here and now. Yeah. It's A. Runway Safety Simulator Dot Com, can you imagine that okay and I haven't opened it but the description of it makes it sound sort of like a video game you can use to earn your wings patch. Well, they give you a couple of scenarios here in you click on them and as scenarios play out and you get to. Change views. To change views of the videos based on actual events then responded the scenarios. What would you do? Would you do it? Right? and. If you didn't do it right in the. In the simulator, you may want to book some time with the CFI and work on that. Oh okay. I mean and is it like a is it just question answer or is it a photo realistic kind of Sim? Game Simulator photo realistic kind of really kind of a powerpoint type presentation of scenarios. Okay. Option and. Okay. and. How did you do David? Did you crash? I I haven't tried it yet. Well see I i. think that's your homework assignment I. I saw that and grabbed it before it went into the before that email went into the round filed. Okay. And then never got back to it been. One of those weeks where. Ambition has been at a low. Yeah I. Think maybe it's like a biorhythms think because I also have had an offer awkward sounds like Jeb so when. You know gems had the upbeat. Happy Week, this week. Is Starting to become. Unhappy. Only because here. There's that. Okay. So the video similar that sounds like a useful tool I. think we should all check that out and we actually have a story coming up later on the list related to that. But for pacing reasons, I'm going to leave it till later on. Some of Y'all. Try It. Out Listeners. Let us know what she thought of it Yeah Yeah. Talk about next. Speaking of tell listeners telling us what they thought. So we got we got a couple of emails from listeners this time. I wanted talk about The first one is from Lucerne Mike P. now first of all, it's interesting that miss listener my I'm not sure where he got this impression but he congratulates us he says I just finished listening to episode five hundred. All right which. I, wish I could do that because I was going to say where you so. Whether he got I should listen to the podcast either he got confused her we made it unclear somehow someway but he did specifically mentioned the episode. What's the episode where we talked about jet pack flying over La, which episode was that let's Go and actually see here. Let's see. Now this is. Not that one is it this one? it was episode Ten ten One thousand ten that he's referring targets. Yes. Yes. And Trying to ten ten is actually what's ten ten interesting binary number I forget what it is. It's like women so when See now. I'm pressuring myself here. That would be a one that would be to switch to. Listeners will tell me or I could ask Internet. Anyway. Mike. P.. Wrote I just finished listening episode five hundred where you mentioned the jetpack citing at lax I don't know if you have seen the jet pack that has been flying by a company. In California, for some time, he writes very similar to the Bell jet pack that was in the James Bond movie but uses to mini jet engines, and then you refers to a website called jetpack aviation dot COM, which I don't have on my screen and now. Although it does bring to mind some video that I've seen recently about a guy who's wearing a couple of jet engine ish e things are arms sort of iron nanny kind of thing. You know what I'm talking about if you've seen that jet pack, Aviation Dot Com, show me here. Let's see here. Tune in binary is Tim. That's why it's significant. Ten Ten. In Binary was somehow significant. Thank you. Appreciate that Yes. The P and I'm looking at jetpack aviation and this is the one that has wait a minute. nope. Maybe not hang on. It's a better picture. Would jetpack speeder sort of star wars e thing. That's where you actually sit on. It's like a jetpack motorcycle. JETPACK Jetski. Exactly the go back Jetski. stubby wings it must have a lot of jet power engine power to be able to fly with. Maybe. It gets lifted. Graham Oh they are they point down as well? Don't they how much? I'm sold. Yeah. You want one. Okay. Yes. You can launch from your side yard your lawns already pretty ripped up. So what the heck? Yeah what the heck. Just, think of it had the capacity you could. Fly to the grocery store and. Load, up and fly by. Yes, land in a parking lot. Yeah. They would love that one wants right exactly. Exactly. Currently, they're not selling it. They are the are like giving you a day with. For Five Grand. So, women telling me this thing actually exists to the point where you can rent time on it. I, it just struck me as being. You know, basically it's a fusion three, sixty project. It's actually two days fifty, four, nine, fifty for two days. Reduced. For a limited time used to be forty, nine, fifty for one day. That pricing makes a lot of sense for them since you're GONNA, kill yourself on the I. It's. It's it's. Insurance will be included in the cost. So. Who are they ensuring? Ensure. Tell me tell me more about. Let's insurable. Exactly. That's how they're getting their seed funding for version two of the pack jet jet. What do they call it? Jet Ski Jet Pack Somewhere we have an insurance underwriter. So his chair. Listener. Mike piece suggests that this might be it could be as plausible certainly could be at this was the aircraft was finger quotes air quotes. On. That was was sited near lax. Let's see. Now he also writes He says, you also mentioned about the seven thirty seven Max discussion about the angle of attack warning indicator in he writes, Mike? P. writes if I recall the airline. The airline's could order a warning light for a defective AOL indicator, but some airlines did not order that option however, the light was installed on the aircraft even if it was not functioning. So as a result, many pilots believed, they had that capability that this is the way I remember the story and and it could well be true. Yeah, and it's just as goofy sounding now as as it was back then. If memory serves there was also an option for dual AOA baynes right. But a lot of the overseas carriers in particular decided against spinning the extra money right? Oh didn't put that in. And one of the functions of the second one was to tell the flight crew. If they were not in agreement if they didn't match, it's something was wrong. And you can't do that with just one. Yeah. Right. Exactly at psycho. Number two is not wired up, they always don't well no they match sometimes and others. Okay. It's Third to be tiebreaker it's a clock. That's the way they do spacecraft. You know I'd Yeah I sort of knew this but didn't know this but. So you put a computer in a, you know like on the Mars rover or these the various. Things that are going into space. You apparently, it's nearly impossible to shield slash harden up a computer well enough that whatever gamma rays or these magic rays that are shooting through space. Won't. Possibly affect the computer and make the computer glitch. And so. Obviously, you gotTa have more than one computer, but in fact, it's routine apparently goes all the way back to apologize that they're even now there are three computers on board all of these spacecraft as as I've read and and there's a very very. Elaborate scheme for checking. And comparing the results from all three computers, and then there's a set of rules for what happens if they disagree you know if disagree but to agree and if they all three disagree. It's just kind of a thing. It's it's kind of interesting from a computer scientist which an amateur one. Point of view anyways might be. Thank you, Mike. That's that's interesting and that could could well be the jet pack the question I don't know. I don't think we've ever heard anything more about that story from I've not seen a whole lot of follow up on it either I think if one somebody did go. In avail yourself of this training Closely inspect jetpack and see if it has some silhouettes of seven thirty sevens alongside. The right. Have they. Or? Lax? Check mark by it or something. Yeah. Okay. All right. Well, let's see now. Now I gotta get back when I was looking at the wrong, I almost. I opened the next item on the list. Are we talked about that before I realized I was still looking at the old show notes. The old version of lists areas JEB. What's downright I'm alright Florida. How's the weather been? It's been delightful. Actually we had the first cold front of the season come through. And brought us some lot a lot drier cooler air I'm getting up in the mornings and temperature outside is basically the same as as it is in the house, which is you know low seventies. So that's that's a great thing. Right now I'm looking at blue sky and and some Lisbie's higher you know typical. Afternoon, thundershowers in the forecast but. They're not the percentage is not as as high in the coverage won't be as great. So we're we're starting the transition into what you folks. Call Fall. Right now, I know what you're. Seasons are different. I lived in California for a long time and I after being there for a while I insisted that there were seasons if you were there long enough notice. Yes. Oh, their seasons here to. A. Stark. I you you you. You allude to your your guy. At least in my mind you did that that you can step inside outside so to. I really admire I lost free. Plus free, right? Okay. That's maybe the wrong choice of words but I love your Lanai I love rushing. That was like a sixty three Top forty hit. That's where I heard it before I really really liked that kind of architecture. That's my kind of thing, and if I were ever to move to Florida, I swear one of the biggest reasons why would be so that I could have that kind of home architecture the idea that there's a relatively. A minor barrier between inside and outside is very appealing to me when I moved down here I thought it was like a state. Law. If you look around everybody's got him. You usually the one I surrounded by screen house of some sort and often with a pool also included. Yeah. State law I I know what you mean. So and this is one of the I like run living right now in in in downtown Dover New Hampshire but. The downtown. But and I generally don't mind department life but I don't have easy access to the outside like I don't have a porch that can just kinda step out onto the porch. Now it'd be really Nice i. have to like go into the hallway down the stairs out the door and I've I've had a deck or patio or something like that Successive houses for several years. So yeah, I get that I am currently that's high on my list if not the top of my list of where I live next year wherever that might be so anyways, which working on anything fun. No. Not Really. Couple a couple of side projects nothing really work related though I'm gearing up for the drum roll please November issue of. So we're, getting? down. To. close to the end of the year. It's going to be an interesting one for sure. But here I am working on 'em. I won't have to file it till October. So I, mean. Run out at twenty twenty. Some of US would consider that that's a good thing. I know I somebody. Yeah. I was chatting with a cashier, an my local drugstore, the other day, and we were just kind of bemoaning the the whole twenty twenty. And she told me she said she said that she was not the kind of person who really gets all excited about. You. Seldom stays up until midnight silvery that's a interesting observation. And she said, she said though this year she plans to stay up till midnight on New Year's just so that she can say good riddance to twenty twenty I'm going yeah. You know accents that's that's very sage of her don't let the calendar page hitching they ask. You know. Hopefully hoping twenty twenty twenty one is going to. Get some part of twenty twenty one has to be better. It may start out rough but. It's Ok. She rougher get better. Start out rough. Rough. Yeah. It's will for various reasons it's going to start off. Yeah, anyways. saw that cheery note. Yeah that you know now, but you know what you need here's what you need. I know I saw this in. Put it here I. Just I'm like. You need one of those airline beverage. Carts exactly and the idea of having the Card itself is not an unsound. Okay. I kinda part company here when they stock it as they stock it what are we talking about here? Charge it charge for what they're charging. This is Qantas the Australian carrier recently mothballed or turned over or sold or whatever all of its seven, forty, seven th. There's they stopped flying seven forty sevens that was a big. It was a big deal. We we put something on the list for episodes. Okay talked about that or they drew A. Logo. The stylized kangaroo on with. Flight track. Thing. In when they swim, they flew it off to for retirement but. They're selling early I'm sorry they were selling. Quote fully stock seven, forty, seven bar cart. Go Perfect they wanted fourteen hundred dollars Australia. Australian, which you know. But I think Australian money's Russia's equal thousand forty eight in in US dollars according to the. Ship it outside Australia so. Norte Americanos were we're kind of behind. You had to buy a seven forty seven as well to get well. But it wouldn't have been stocked who For sure you would've been picked over. Okay. But they have I don't know what Tim Tam Czar I'm guessing some sort of candy. That's Almonds amenity kits like. A toothbrush and blindfold and things like that two blankets. And I don't know what sleeper suite is maybe A. pullover. Disposable piece piece of clothing but eighty thank you bottles of red wine and eighty bottles of white wine and I'm thinking I can probably get by without all that. Having, the cart itself. Would Be Kinda? Cool. I don't necessarily need everything they throw on it lately would sure picture New Year's Eve party. Two bottles of Champagne. Hundred sixty bottles of wine. Small bottles now, small bottles. But the eighty where the equivalent of twenty standard seven, hundred, fifty milliliter bottles like he'd get the liquor store. So was a lot of wine there. But with all of that savory biscuits, salted almonds, smoked omens blankets. Just roll that out into the lobby for the new. Year's Eve Party and let him. In the immortal words of Slim pickens shoot a guy could have a pretty good weakened in Vegas with all. That's. All right. We're going to have to ask we have to speak to our Australian listeners about this whole. Just send you a link to the wikipedia page for Tim Tim. Them on Ebay apparently here in the US. What what is it just real quickly it's a chocolate covered cracker basically. It's very, very reminiscent of I can imagine I can't think of the name, but I can picture an American. Cracker cookie product. That's the same thing. It's something to Keebler elves could have whipped exactly. It's a it's an cracker of some sort might be like a Graham cracker kind of thing I don't know. Exactly. Feeling and it's coded. Okay. That sounds actually fairly fairly tasty. Yes. No, it does it. Absolutely. All right. Apparently, there's a thing surrounding. So you don't just eat tim, Tam's according to Wikipedia, and I, really really WanNa hear this from our Australian friends but. There are various I. Don't know what you want to call them. It's practices competitions. The Tim Tam Slam is apparently a thing also known as the Tim Tam Shotgun the Tim Tam bomb the. Tam Explosion the Tim Tam, Bong, or the Tim Tam Suck Sorry folks. That's what it says and Wikipedia. It's a practice of drinking a hot beverage through a Tim Tam. So apparently, it has like a channel like a Straw on opposite ends of the Tim Tam are bitten off. One end is submerging the beverage in the beverages sucked through the biscuit as though the Tim Tam itself were a straw. Well, here we go. It's an all purpose podcast. You'll learn something new every day I tell you that's not necessarily something I wanted to. But. The Tim. Tam itself sounds sounds tasty. It does it does actually description makes me wish I hadn't skip breakfast. Consists of two multi biscuits separated by a light chocolate cream filling and coated in a thin layer of textured chocolate. I I'm blanking on what is called the I'm picturing a US available. or US Brandon I don't know how to characterize exactly cookie cracker that is very similar but twix. Something maybe that's what I'm thinking. Yeah. So I don't to tell. Chocolates wrong. This clearly, that's the distinction. You can use it as a swizzle stick. Yeah. Okay. Yeah. All right. Ask me how I know this how did we get into that? What are we talking about Tim Cam go karts Qantas Cartier, Qantas cards so I again is sold out. So I mean, they sold out. Of the habit they're gone you and I then have a mission maybe Jeb David WanNa get involved to we need to get an a beverage cart. When we go to Sun next spring because I'm relatively certain that I'd seen size thing. The. The flea market climb are. there. So we're going GONNA. See what he has to say right now. Okay. You look at that. All right. So anyways, we're going to kind of serious when next the I'm trying to figure out how to change the change the tone here a little bit Yeah, all getting sight. So there was a crash. It'd be twenty-five crashed this past week. and. This is literally This was a forced landing the didn't well and. Last I heard according to this story then add web story from four days ago. As of the time of the story. Has Survived few people need some medical help but everyone survived to the scene three hurt in be twenty, five crash landing. This is from. ADB. September twenty two people were taken to a hospital and a third was able to walk away from a crash landing of a B twenty five in Stockton California on Saturday. Local authorities said the aircraft which is known as old glory. I'm trying to figure if I, I'm sure we've seen glory at one of the shows at some point experienced some sort of mechanical failure and the pilot was attempting a forced landing when the mishap occurred. Quote the plane attempted landing in an open field and appeared to struck an irrigation ditch and quote the San Joaquin. County sheriff's office said in a statement. That's. I've seen this airplane that. Yeah Yeah. No No. No you what mechanical failure will not in this story and this a four day old story. So maybe there's more news. But. and. That was what sort of caught my attention and I. I'm totally not second guessing the choices of the pilot and crew here I'm I'm not be at all surprised to hear that they made exactly the right choices about how how to save their cells in there and they're you know passenger or passengers but. A mechanical failure resulting in a forced landing. I just kind of. I Two don't exactly go together a mechanical failure would mean that you. You would try to get back to airport. What what's the nature of mechanical failure that say mechanical failure could be lost engine? Yeah. Yeah. Could be could could be the fuel selector failed and you're right. It totally could be that. But that usually they would say that we don't. We don't know this. This is who is reporting this. This is Nile Russ Niles because it's way but. I mean they've got to go with what they've been told not agreed agreed he's he ended the day after right? Yeah I I just looked at I'll look at India as being a moment. I just looked at it at the FAA's preliminary accident site and they don't have any. Additional information they're simply saying substantial damage aircraft crashed under circumstances, right? Okay. Is really knew how it just happened. Yeah. I just hope they restore it again. Well. Literally restored again again, apparently this, let's see. Now, this is the second major accident I'm reading from the story it was the second major accident for this airframe, which is owned by a New York. Corporation, but the aircraft apparently is based in Stockton California. It was damaged a forced landing near Reno Nevada in eighty seven and underwent eighteen thousand hours of restoration that was completed in one, thousand, nine hundred, and you just keep it away from Nevada northern cal. Now. So I just checked the NTSB side is not up there yet. So Yeah. Because the diminishing number of be twenty five in the world and that's I. Mean All these historic aircraft diminishing his sad. But I always liked admired. B Twenty, five's. Both for their sort of lines and capabilities and design, and they have a awesome obviously a. Wonderful. History. Of. Fan of any, any any medium bomber that can get off an aircraft carrier, right? Yeah. That's of course one of their big notable claims to fame as there that whole doolittle raid think one thing also. If in fact, mechanical failure wasn't engine. and. It happened shortly after takeoff closing the throttles and landing the airplane and the best available spot is probably a good choice. The airplane has a relatively high spread between Assay liftoffs or rotation speed and minimum say single engine speed of about forty five miles an hour. And that's fairly wide gap in the losing an engine an airspeed below one forty five. Is, not, a good day right? No I agree and I again I want to be clear I'm not challenging the choice make no no, no no I'm not either I'm just kinda curious that that wording was. You know they don't know they don't know any different. That's all I've been told and and this apparently was taken. From local SHERIFF'S OFFICE RIGHT YEAH SO We'll know more the next time. Yeah. Now I don't trust local sheriff's office know when it comes to describing aviation events. Exactly right. Exactly. Right. So okay. Well, glad the folks are okay and it's sad about the airplane but they prepared at once before maybe repaired again you know. Didn't look totaled if they bought the including the right engine in cell amounting. Going to need some work? Kids can't even see the left engine. and. The landing gear I can't tell anything about the landing gear either so. But The basics there and it'll fly again hopefully hopefully. Yeah. I've never actually one of these days. Maybe I on my bucket list get a twenty five right that would be that would be funny if I. Happen I had a chance a couple years ago to crawl over one in a museum with. A docent. Kind of guiding me and telling me about the airplane. Climbed up left and all that kind I was really shocked at how small inside of that airplane. Yeah. All of those things are. Likewise I got I'm sorry David go ahead. Say inside it's really cramped and the trip from. Upfront in the cockpit area back to the tailgunner spot. You've got a little catwalk to go over the Bombay right right and. It's interesting place to be with the doors open. Tell me about it. I got a chance to crawl around. We talked about this on the podcast you may not remember. A few years back I was visiting we'll hawkins out in California and The I'm always it's the collings foundation, right? And they're their tour of a twenty five and I forget what the other might have been a Mustang. We're visiting. Moffett field out there and will, and I went out to see it. Part of the reason we wanted to go see it was because one of the pilots was an old buddy of wills and we had arranged to meet up with the pilot who took us into some of the roped off areas of their between five that day and that was a lot fun. I know likewise got to go up and sit in the left seat and it's yeah can you imagine being in battle and kind of getting shot at? Yeah. Exactly and there's nothing between you and The outside especially. Three to eleven him. Imagine being in the Bombardier's but more when. The aircraft carrier. Oh Yeah Right. When she I know there's ocean water go away further away water further away anyways. Okay. All right. Hey captain of water is getting a little close little cap cap kept. Thank guys. Got My toes wet there. Jack. Up to lately. Also getting ready for just kind of enjoying the onset of fall as best we can hear. You know people who lives longtime listeners know that I'm not a winter person. And especially in these pandemic days, I'm really not looking forward to winter but trying to do my best year and. Sadly it's starting to get to chill I may have had my last all longtime listeners will also know them a breakfast person. I love my breakfast going out to diners for breakfast and for the past few months I've been going to outdoor. Seating thing here in Dover. And it's starting to get a little bit chilly at breakfast time the to go and sit outside and I'm not ready to eat inside yet. So I may have had my last diner breakfast jacket. A. Jack Jacket it may come to that but I've been paying a lot of tension until it's like a couple of times I've delayed my breakfast an extra hour just to get to sixty degrees or something like that. So But anyways been having afternoon. Occasionally morning coffee. It little place called the coffee coffeehouse near my house. Yeah and It's been brisk enough that I've been wearing a little light jacket. Yeah. Sitting there sipping Malaga Yeah I mean and and being. Later in the day I think for some reason at first of all, it does get warmer and the other problem is that my diner is oriented such that the outdoor seating is never in the sun. All right. It's kind of on the side of a building that's going to be always in the shade and as a result the that makes also fill obituary anyways it's getting to be fall and we're kind of just trying to survive I'm GONNA survive we're GONNA make it. We're GONNA, make it through this thing and But it is getting to be befall. Still working on getting my shop setup that's a slow process and I still haven't moved that motorcycle. I've got one of these days mood that motorcycle we survived all the other winners so far. It well, yeah. Usually I don't have to be here all the time in the winter. Usually, I get to travel all over America including to warm places throughout the winter and it doesn't look like, I'm going to get to do that this winter. So it's going to be a different winter. I've seen in quite some time. Commissioning about twenty twenty s different than using. The other thing I'm working on these days is I'm doing more and more I phone ipad programming. And I've got one sort of really begin project that I'm not GonNa really talk about because it was mostly training and learning thing that I've got a handful of friends helping me test right now but I've I've got a couple of ideas for other iphone and IPAD. A programs that might be interesting to people. At the very least they had to do with sort of making social media work. Maybe I don't know I have some ideas. And so I I may over the next month or to be looking for some iphone and on users who would like to play with a development experiment. It's it's you know it's going to be totally for fun. Neither unit I will probably make any money off of it, but if you're interested in playing long. The home game. So to speak, you could also send email to jacket in controlled airspace dot com. This would presume that you are an iphone or an ipad user. This is not going to be android at this time so Check me out. Yeah unfortunately. Sorry about that. Love to have you involved but. So, anyways that's a lot about. Some of the things that I've been playing around with and just just try to stay busy and it's kitten to be time I have to go back to work somehow some way I gotta go back to work this hooley copious free time. Yeah. Yeah. Well, I managed to keep busy I'm good at finding stuff to do. But the income thing is starting to become a bit of a challenge and so So anyways. Before we get back into the listed just wanted to say that. If to all of our great listeners. If you like what we're doing here with this podcast, please consider supporting it with a financial donation as little as a few dollars a month from you is a big help in covering the expensive doing this podcast, you can send individual donations to the cap tip jar a pay pal. Like to thank a couple of listeners who've made a recent paypal. Donations Todd and Michael and John Thank you very much or you can become an automatic monthly supporter via the service. PATRIAE. On. And thank you to some of our recent Patriots supporters Let's see. No a gym and Jonathan and Patricia and mark and Larry and Jan and Tim and everyone else who supports us on patron you folks of the best. Thank you very much for information on how. You can do this automatic monthly support checkout, patriotic dot com slash uncontrolled space, or you can make a paypal donation to the email address podcast at uncontrolled airspace dot com. If you didn't get any of that stuff, it's all on our website. Go to the CAP homepage at uncontrolled airspace dot com. Thank you everyone we appreciate it a lot. What's next here? So we heard again from anonymous airline. Pilot listener friend. Of Ours. who a few episodes back. To open the right window here. Give me second here though. Who we had been talking about all the aircraft that are parked on various ramps around America airliners that are parked. And he gave us some direct eyewitness reports about that. And and now he's following up on another conversation. We had from cap one, thousand, nine year discussion of the Fedex gear issue in lax quote unquote jostled my memory he used the word jostled I thought an airline to airline pilot term no I know it's not my memory is of a t writes two, thousand and five incident with A. GV What's a GP. Screen Gulfstream five belonging to Nike said they took off from K. H. I. O. Hillsborough Oregon. East of of the Portland and do some corrosion the gear mechanism on the inner door right main gear got out of sequence lodged between the two main gear tires preventing it's. They were headed to Toronto. So they had plenty of fuels fuel encircle for five hours trying various solutions. The even tried what you asked about, which is an attempted bounce down what's what he calls it of the gear he says, there's video of the somewhere He said the event I remember that event and there is video out. There's yeah. He says, they eventually shut down an engine to remove hydraulic power from that door and prefer performed a negative gene maneuver, which is also how I would characterize that I don't have two different maneuver. which eventually dislodged gear and a normal landing was preferred. He says, is the their links to a couple of of of. Articles articles. So yeah, you remember that Jeb. Is that the one pictured here a little bit lower in his message. I didn't want. Those links there appears to be I would call that a gulfstream five with only one gear extent one main gear extended. David you're saying, yes that's the one. That's the. Yeah that's the airplane. Okay. So. Is Yet another example of no? No, it's probably the same one. and. Then he goes on to some some is there is this the he talks about Jeb you commented about what the G. Limitations might be for transport category aircraft. And and our airline anonymous airline pilot friend clearly knows the specifics and so he gives us some information here about what they are with the flaps up and flaps down. He says, this is standard I'm. Paraphrasing here. I've heard of hard landing inspections are triggered in the neighborhood of one and a half to one point eight g touchdown. He said, oh. He says he suggests that the Fedex pilot going back to the Fedex could have tried to bounce down the gear by actually touching down on the one extended gear is what I think I'm reading here. He said however asking a line pilot to do a rejected land. Yeah, which is practiced practiced. Maybe once a year our friend writes in the SIM. and to try and bounce down a gear invites other risks and so he said he he closes by saying it seems the Fedex crew made a good choice and did what many airlines train their crews to do, which is create time and expand your team as best you can so interesting comments about this and he Is here. To somebody being there to get that picture. Yeah. I it's a lot different to try some of these techniques in. Your Piper Arrow or your bonanza. That isn't a seven, sixty seven. The masses different. The runway requirements are different. The speeds are different. All this kind of thing but. The point we made. When we talked about this episode the first time. Was it just a textbook example text book example of use all the tools available to achieve a favourable outcome. So yeah, I agree and we did talk about that and I kind of like the way a anonymous pilot phrased it by saying, create time and expand your team. So this. This tickles me he says, I was literally walking the bike loop around. Bowman. Field in Louisville has day was relating the story of one seventy two caught the wires over the Ohio River. Yeah, you know he seems to be everywhere. It's kind of like I think. I've actually seen another. I, think he sent me a text message the other day saying. That I I, was just there something else we were talking about I forget. All the notes next time but Yeah. So well, thank you anonymous airline pilot and It's good to hear from you again it's actually really good to be hearing from you and My understanding is that you may be able to speak publicly. At some point. We would love to have you join us if the house like ups asked me but hey, I just work here. Right. What's next here or real real quickly real quickly just to fill. A gap close the loop. ebay has airline of beverage. Cart. Okay. They're they're. Pricey. Here's one for nine hundred dollars or make best it offer things like that. So they're out there. If someone's inclined is not gonNA come at all the Qantas stuff prices go up from there so I can say, okay, well, there we go. It's like Oh you know and and we also know where to get Tim. Tam's so and we we're we're. Full Service podcast full-service by guest. I alluded to this earlier this is a video of. So this is from the bold method website really really good interesting website somehow associated with our friends at GE news but the and thing that's how I heard about this and they publish a lot of interesting articles about Practice and and and safety things and and whatnot, and this article. Is just recent. Oh No, it's not from a year ago, but I just came across it recently, what would you do? The headline says, what would you do if an airplane taxied in front of you during touchdown? And, of course, this is a an interesting hypothetical question one when you're thinking about it in training, but we have here. Cockpit video of this exact thing happening. And it's it's a little bit of a sobering piece of video I. Don't know if you guys have listened to it I watched it rather. It's a small aircraft for some reason I WANNA call it Cessna some sort of I don't know why wants to women. Seventy two. Airplanes you want seventy two alternate wednesdays. So wants me to on final. Very, routine final two touchdown. The landing one, seventy two is either touchdown or just about to touchdown when another one seventy, two taxis out across the runway in front of him. And and Yikes I usually watch this video and you go holy moly now what do I do? Now. This particular pilot chose to firewall the throttle. All right and and we lose sight of the of the. The intruding craft. Yeah intruding aircraft. But the? Says and obviously they didn't touch. We were relatively sure of that. The the account says they came burberry close and then the the landing aircraft manage to climb out and that's the last. That's the end of the video. So. I don't know if that's the choice I would've made. And I'm curious. What if you guys WanNa WanNa speculate on what choice you might make in this kind of situation has this ever happened to you I? Guess that's a first question. Not that close. Okay. Potentially close yeah. David of you I mean, this is really close this. If this hadn't if the landing air I would go so far as to say, safe landing craft had not done something evasive they would have contact it would have struck each other. This was going to happen. David is anything like this happen to you? Yeah want really. and. Caught the intruding aircraft out of the corner of my left eye. Just as it came not only came in front of me came over me. and down from the left side. And A. Seen the landing is going around. What's he doing? Oh, I don't give A. In. Far Welded at the same time our older pitch trimmed down. And didn't stow the wheels until I was five hundred feet up and had the flap stowed. and. The Guy came over later and apologized. and. Complimented me on doing something quick enough to. Prevent. wrinkling any metal on other of our point. but. I was. I was a little bit edgy and thinking my. Yeah. That's definitely a fresh pair of pants. Not Not, all that conciliatory I'm I'm not sure. I would have been either well. Yeah, you know. One. Thing I'd like to comment on is. Basic concepts behind defensive flying. Yeah So you're approaching runway. And Yeah you've got your eye on the air speed in managing your put. This happens to be a course of severe clear day and does it look like it's all that bumpier windy or anything like that the the arriving airplane is aiming basically for the numbers runway numbers and touch touches death fairly close to them. The runway isn't specified when it appears at several thousand feet long. I've got to thank. I would have seen in this pilot should have seen that tax year planet approaching the runway. Agree with that and landing beyond that taxiway. Would have been a prudent choice. Okay. Okay. That's The lesson, he didn't have to touch down before that taxiway intersection. He didn't have to touch down on the members there appeared to be thousands of feet of runway remaining beyond that taxiway. And if it had been me, I would like to think. Then I would have adjusted my glide path land to be on that tech. Okay That's that's unreasonable as airline thereby eliminating the possibility of any kind of a conflict I. I liked it would have made the same choice slash mistake that the landing aircraft made, which was he even assuming that I had this taxiing aircraft in sight I would've made the some assumption that it was going to hold short. And and and apparently it seem to have been now. If you'd seen it taxiing and maybe noticed the wasn't stopping at some point. You know maybe that's that would have been the the the milestone you would have been looking for is that he's in fact stopped. because. That's the other thing is that seems to be moving pretty fast I wonder if maybe he was so far off of the away from the runway that landing aircraft didn't even really see him that could well be but he was so far out of the environment shortly after the landing airplane down. The airplane entered field of you and it was fairly close to the A. Geometry and I'm not I'm not ragging on this pilot. but I'm just saying there's another option here. Yeah. So Yeah. So would you afire firewall think and I mean I'm not sure in one seventy two. Depending on the loading Yada, Yada Yada may well have keep in mind. A lot of that also depends on the later model one, seventy two had maximum thirty degree flaps versus earlier with Max. Forty degrees. Forty degrees On a go around from from the pavement in a one seventy two. As a little much. He would WANNA get some of those flaps retracted sooner rather than later. A thirty degree Skyhawk. Going around with full flaps should not have been that big a deal. I don't know what I would have done I. There's another school of thought that says, Hey, you know I'm on the ground. If I go around I'm not going to be on the ground anymore it is better to hit something on the ground than it is in the air. and. Okay and I I might have just stayed on the ground and slammed on the brakes. Done everything I could including maneuvering behind the crossing airplane even if I would've taken out a runway light or something Oh Yeah I. Yeah and that's and the article refers to that being a a mediocre choice because you're going to go into the grass and I don't think that makes. I think that makes it a mediocre choice either. Some of it kind of depends on the airplane but the flip side of that is. Really matter. I once you're on the ground, maybe it's time to stay there. Yeah. That was my first impression when I watched this was that that would been my choice I mean you never know in the in distress at the moment, but but it seems that my choice would have been to maneuver behind this intruding. Let me hasten add that miraculously on miraculous not the right word fortunately, this turned out. For the best outcome for everybody right and and got to log another landing. A. There is a silver lining. Just gets better and better. When I first saw this on the On the List. Okay go around from conflicting. Traffic. Yada Yada. I think we've all had someone pull out onto the runway as we're on short final. And have to go around with perhaps strong language to follow as I. Say I think we've all had that probably but. That's not the same as this event. Right because it happened. So last. I mean they were you're there's more decisions to make and and this pilot made a good decision. There are other decisions one can make also. Other than maneuvering or or adding power going around landing longer. Going behind, you know he could have. Know. Slammed on the brakes in turn to the right and maybe come parallel with that conflicting traffic. Again, what you do once you once you decided to stay on the ground is is. Okay let's call it. Once you once you're on the ground, what you do next is up in the air Personally, I take your suggestion of of landing long if if if the if the if the taxiing aircraft is not clearly stopped. Then land and it wouldn't or don't land just playing Goran. Dea. Don't Let. It wouldn't have taken much power application to to get the Skyhawk Skyhawk into hover go beyond to go beyond. Beyond Yeah. All right David any final thoughts on this? Just as long as you miss it. Yeah Yeah. What's going on or shoes anger nights Okay. It's going David How's the weather in Wichita? It's Unusually Paul like. Yeah. But now we've been down this road before that means eighty is that what you're telling me? Well, it was fifty eight here overnight. Okay. Yes. There we go. That's when barely hit eighty yesterday. Excuse me. And I think that progress for today or mid eighties. Let's see what's the outside the how do y'all Degrees right now outside. Clear Blue and We have been plagued little bit by California fire smoke. And that's out of yeah. Inside says. Uproar. Really Oh That's really interesting. Anthony I'm sorry that's. What going through Jack I you know well as a whole different story David. So yeah you really literally play not just like you know red sunsets. Right. That's interesting I. The reason I suddenly had this epiphany. So. One of the byproducts of pandemic was discovered that and being home all spring and summer which I haven't done in ten years is I discovered that I actually have allergies here in New England when I'm actually here. And they had finally calmed down like you know late summer mid August ish and and then some the last few days they flared up again, I couldn't figure out why I wonder if it's because of the smoke that's really interesting. That's an interesting idea. What are you working? David. What's going on when you having any fun? Doing doing some of the regular stuff Finished up one magazine last week I've already started work on another. I did have. Very, very pleasant evening yesterday with a friend of mine whose name you'll recognize A. Paul Bowen sure met for. A couple of the brown bottles at one of the local brewpubs. Sitting outside at a table in the shade. Nice Breeze A. Good Beer. Pleasant conversation that. I I could do that more often. Yeah well, be nice to do that more often for sure that's great. Yeah. Let's Great. So That's it sounds like maybe work as calm down or not. Know. It steady. I finish to last week I've got to do to the next to. In the next week and then three more of the week after that. And I'm. Trying to minimize any new projects right now until I figure out. What may be happening with a family member yet may require. Travel Long Distance on very short notice right. I'm going to get the little coop over to my my mechanic on Monday and the work's not due until early November. But up bigger out I'll go ahead and get the oil and filter change the tires rotated and all the cabinet filters changed because I. Know they'll be loaded right now. and. Have it all up to go and case I have to haul myself out Indiana on short notice. Otherwise just I've already started thinking about the holiday presents for folks because I'm not sure I'm going to get back there over the holidays this year. Yeah. Well, we're going to chip in and get get. A snack cart. Actually last night loaded or unloaded already had a gift or JEB. What did I have in mind? For Jim Oh, that's right. I was going to get JEB, a laser pointer for his gate to play with his own. Twitter thing I don't know if we talked about that on the podcast or not but All right. David what's the story with This book this I and I'm I really hate that I'm going to mispronounce her name shot. Cheyenne ESTA shut. Why Shake Sta wait Shasta the ways. What's what's this book and Why is it significant? Well, she started an organization called Dream Sore and his book of. Talking about her life story in the challenges, leading up to her dream flying solo around the world which she accomplished. Book is available now and I think what makes her story particularly Worthwhile. Is that She's not in America she lives in the Middle East where. Women being able to overcome social barriers quite an accomplishment and She got herself trained got her license Got An airplane flew around the world. Now she's done a book about it, which I think would be. Really. Good gift for Young, ladies in the household when the holidays come around or young boys this is a great story. Yeah. Yeah. It's great. Story And I wish I had a chance to meet her the believe she was at Oshkosh last year but. The. Years are all screwed up. I. Know Twenty Twenty One's another year. Maybe we'll get a chance to get around the podcast something. Anyway we'll have the Lincoln show notes and where you can take a look at the book cover and decide if that's A. Something that you want to put on the list for the youngster in your household. Yeah. Very cool. And now. You're really depressing the heck out of me Dave because you're put a story on the list about flying in the snow. Getting ahead of yourself here but wh, what's the significance of wet snow an NTSB, news release wet snow flight hazards highlighted in NTSB safety alert. So apparently, it's not just you. It's the NTSB US trying to bomb me out to Well, this is worthwhile information. Of any and I were A. Comanche spirit of St.. Louis I'm sorry Cherokee it spirit of St. Louis years ago. We, head freezing rain overnight, and then it stopped and we had the airplane in a hangar. By Germinal. Correction because they didn't have their de icing fluid truck out yet. And Son cleared up a sky cleared up everything sunny. We got the airplane all cleaned off an all water. Removed no ice and then it started to snow. And we check the air temperature outside. And it was a eighteen nineteen degrees. And in talking to light service like. You know. Pull airplane out and. Don't let it sit in the snow, but let it sit outside until the temperature. equalizers in matched as ear free matches, ambient temperature, and you should be okay I was told. And in fact, that worked out we flew. Of A four hundred mile trip, we drew black one hundred and fifty miles suit. Snowstorm. And A, you don't want to strobes on when you do that. Man. Does. That give you some traces but? The important thing was that the airframe was too cold for the snow to melt and stick. So it nothing stuck to the airport. We didn't even have a snow or ice on the prop when we made as a precautionary landing because. Fuel. Fuel, consumption was not what it was supposed to be. and. You WanNa know how cold it is. You want to know what kind of snow you're going to be getting into because if it's wet snow. and temperatures enough like. Twenty six to thirty degrees. It'll melt and referees. Now, you've got an airplane. Trust us when we say they don't fly very well rice right I've met a handful of. What you WANNA. Might WanNA call right stuff air pilots in my life serious qualified bad ass pilots if you will and there's only a handful of things that they almost all tell me your. Nighttime, aircraft carrier landings. And Ice. I've just so many pilots is you don't mess around with ice period. I've never had occasion to because I'm not that kind of a pilot but Except on board we picked up some ice I. Think I vaguely remember that time that you and I flew to. To Wichita And I for some reason, I wanna say it was on the trip back and we were in the clouds. Okay It was like, October? We're motoring along in the clouds and and exact same moment. We both noticed that the outside air temperature was like thirty one degrees or something like that. All right, and we suddenly went okay. Maybe we should start paying attention to this and I think we looked and maybe saw the tiniest bit of frost and made some changes you took us up or down or whatever it was. You did to to get us out of that. And another time I was, do you remember that incident I vaguely. I've had more than one episode like that. So. They kind of blend together after the yeah I'm not disputing whatever you said. And other time I was with. Another flying buddy of mine and we were up in the Pacific northwest flying from Seattle back to. Some place in central Washington state. I forget what town it was. I want to say Yuccas add up there. anyways. And if you know the geography up there, you have to hop over some pretty big hills to get from the coast to the center of Washington and it was it was a cloudy or snowy. Day Snowy Day. Why would have been snowy? Because we were coming from cash. All I. Know is we did in fact up ice I, remember very distinctly seeing ice on. On the must've been the couldn't have been the PEDO too because I would have been underneath must have been the outside air temperature sensor going through the window. And I remember that's kind of sobering. WHOA look at that. That's interesting. And and he also took it very seriously and we've I forget exactly how he resolved at found in different. Altitude or something like that. But the only time I won an airplane and ice mixed together is when I'm getting a drink in the cabin. Related. The is if it's in association with the Qantas a snack cart, right? Right right. and. There's story. We're when we're in flight training, we're taught about icing. We've talked to stay out of visible moisture when the outsider temperature is thirty or below And the implication is you can only ice up if you're invisible moisture which found not to be true. Night flight. From Louisville back to Augusta Kansas. In the comanche some years ago is December. had been a big ice storm moved through the area the day before But it was clear night. No moon the stars were spectacular. Anne says a dock You're getting nice over there because the leading edge on my wing is a different color than the rest. Shouldn't be I mean we're not in the clouds or anything. And sure enough we were. Developing light rime ice and. As it turned out, what was happening was the humidity was about ninety eight percent To temperature was about thirty. Moisture was condensing on the cold skin of the airplane and freezing. But there was no visible moisture. and. We checked in with light service found an airport close by that had an open runway, an diverted there and. Had about a quarter of an inch of ice on the leading edge. In. The last fifty miles at a ticket to get there. Very very sobering because I'd been flying around for years on the the idea that if you're not invisible moisture. Up Right and. WRONG RIGHT YEAH So. Jeb You've your Florida guy you don't. You know what snow is you? Know is that's That's why I'm in Florida. Exactly. Yeah No, snow is worth all the other things. Yes you sort of. There's flying snow and then there's living with snow. And Either of those things. But yeah. So any other thoughts we know by here? Flying in snow, as long as the as long as the temperatures cold enough. He's not a thank because because the snow will stay frozen, it won't adhere to the airplane. The airplane will be the same temperature or close to the same temperatures, surrounding air, and as long as that's I I'll say. Thirty Fahrenheit or below thirty you don't really have a whole lot to worry about. and you know everything being equal. The colder gets the less were you have is when you're on the cusp of thirty, one, thirty, two, thirty, three, and you're now you might want to. Take an extra peak or to outside. But Isis certainly nothing to to play with just as as Let's just simply. The best example I have is, is about the phrase known icing and why you shouldn't be flying around in ice in non approved airplanes. Excuse me. Years Ago I was on my way back from California and in the Debonair and leading down into one of my favorite fuel stops, which is winslow Arizona and. Letting Dan I went through a couple of white puffy. So there. Wasn't any big deal wasn't any real turbulence in them but when I came out the other side of those white. Puffy there was ice on the windshield. Clear is. Well. That's interesting. I didn't. Yeah. It was it was right on the thirty thirty, one, thirty, two Fahrenheit. A temperature and Didn't didn't really accumulate on the airplane I thought that I saw and. Pretty Soon I was. Again descending. So pretty soon I was warmer air anyway and I didn't pay it any any any mind? landed. Tax Up to the self serve pumps shutdown climb out and I hear this hissing noise. Like what the Hell is that? I hopped Anna start looking around and one of the main fuel tank Vince is. Urinating one hundred lead onto the ramp. Okay what is this and I quickly went and released an open the fuel cap for that tag and it stopped. And what happened is events froze. The actually, the overflow that was that was leaking gas the vent for that Tang got plugged with ice. And as I, descended. The pressure increased inside the tank star pump fuel overboard. Wow. So Isis not just a lift issue I is not just a lift drag weight issue. It can also foul up your shrimp fuel events as one example interesting. Well okay. All right. Well, winter's coming the winter is coming. What's a man? That's what the man said. Right yeah winter. The Promo for? That game of Thrones you're just. So that's why you shouldn't I think every airplane Oughta have needed pedo. Heated pita. Stuff happened. You find yourself in conditions that you had no intention of entering and no way to avoid it and. Now you get a plug pedo tube, Luger airspeed loose accurate altimeter reading lose vertical speed accuracy. And like JEB says I, Isis, and airframe issue is narrow dynamic issue. It's a weighty issue more ways to mess you up than there. A are wheels on your airplane plane. I was wondering where you were going with that. All right. Well. Thank you guys. It's four time. I. Think you're a ninety, one, hundred, low lead should be the title of. What to do with that I just have no idea what I'm GonNa do with their. DEB Air on a hot rent. Let it says let. Me Thank you guys. Just get you someplace where you can't do more damage. Dave Dave. Aviation photographer aviation journalists in the US editor for London's Ab Buyer magazine you can find his work online at ABC buyer dot Com and eighty eight dot net and on twitter he is real hidden and Jeb burnside the so classy Jeb Burns. Is Don't don't make me come up there. He has a very nice home though like his home a lot has a free is he's a freelance writer and editor serving as the editor in Chief of Aviation Safety magazine, and also is a regular contributor to other aviation publications online. You can find jobs work at aviation safety magazine Dot Com is magazine is on twitter at as ABC Safety Mag, and you can also find his work at at Dot Net and Ab, web dot COM on twitter. He is burnside Jay. And I'm Jack Hodgson I'm a private pilot freelance writer and a digital media producer. You can find me online and most of the usual places with the all one word username Jackson for example twitter dot, com Jackson Youtube Jakobsen Patriot. Jack Hodgson can find my e books on Amazon by searching for around the field in the books section and you can sign up for my email newsletter at Jack Hodgson. Dot. Com Hey David was something you wanted to tell us Kito age airtime airtime because time spent flying is not subtracted room your life's man. So get old go fly. And that's enough talking. Let's go flying in. Remember you can land anywhere. Once once. We don't have to be lost in space I can fly Jupiter and get us back home to earth warning, warning, warning, warning, silence you belligerent bucket of Bolts Dr Smith you must not take the controls into you received a safety briefing. Hello go ahead. Members of the uncontrolled airspace podcast are participating as private individuals. Their comments do not necessarily represent the views of the various organizations they work with site at you can take clump of cokes also anything you here on this podcast that sounds like advice on aircraft operation is obviously very general. You should always consider your own situation, remember your draining and the spacecraft. Late. Are you. What did you? The Chili Speaker. Whereas Jack Hodgson when you need it. You may bro seen. All right then. All right. You talk a few more minutes here anything. Nobody break. We haven't gone that long here now. So I my wristwatch, why did we? Well, how did research come up? You've talking about digital versus analog digital versus analogue right and wristwatches. So I WANNA wristwatch in in I don't think I talked about this on the podcast I used to when I was younger I wore a wristwatch all time a lot. All right and About the time I moved to California I stopped wearing a wristwatch because I didn't like the Tan Line that it was putting on my wrist all right and so I chose to stop worrying wristwatch when I was living in the sunny beautiful climate. All right. and. That's like twenty five years ago. All right. So now years back, my beloved apple comes out with what is apparently a pretty cool device in the form of a wristwatch, the Apple Watch. And I and because I didn't I thought I looked at it and I said, that's a cool gadget, but I really don't WanNa wear a wristwatch. So now buying one. So for a couple of years I hadn't bought one. And then coincidentally, not coincidentally, it was one, seventy, two drew who beat me down he he'd been. You gotta get. All my applicants were saying this, but he was the one who finally tipped the Scales and he beat me down and got me to buy an Apple Watch, and so about three or four months ago now I got an apple. Watch. All Right and obviously start wearing it on my on my left wrist I'm shocked by this. And and so two things happen First of all, I very quickly decided that I do like it as a gadget. It's Kinda Handy. All right It it. It does not only does notifications the actually the notifications part. Bugs me a little bit. It notifies me way too. Often I've got to try and figure out how to tuned on the notifications and I haven't quite figured that out yet. But as a as a Quick reference output device like for one I'm I'm working out I want to know how long I'm how I'm doing or or go notifications like reminders and things like that, and also I can talk to. Siri through. Don't say that. Almost woke up the watch almost woke up that that that device can't say that. And So I like that so many things I, like about the watch. The problem is that I started to develop a rash on my wrist underneath watch. All right after. We know what Causes Rashes. I'm sorry that you're talking about this. Family podcast. Well Okay Yeah. Okay So. So I started I started a little bit readiness underneath to watch and this was back in still in in the hot part of the summer and at first I thought and people told me they said it's it's sweat. It's like you got to like make sure that you know you don't build up sweat underneath there and make sure you you know and the other problem is that the the wristwatch wants you to be worn wants to be worn twenty, four, seven all right I mean they they want you to wear it all ten collecting all kinds of fitness information sleep patterns you know I mean kind of cool stuff. But I was getting a rash underneath my wrist. All right and so I started trying different things and I would like you know kind of take it off and make sure it was cleaned every night and and you know. Just things right and it would get a little better and then it would come back a little worse and then it would get a little better. We'll come well reached the point where I'm telling you man, it was like a flesh eating bacteria thing my it was nasty. My risk got red and I have pictures I literally went to see my doctor about it right because it was so nasty. And And so I actually took the re watch offer about two weeks and so I get my my kind of skin condition back under control and finally have, and so now I'm wearing it again but it very nearly rotted my wrist off. Yeah I mean I I I'm exaggerating a little bit but it was a nasty rash and it was more than just under it was like maybe three or four times the width of the of the watch. And and so. What what the Internet has told me is that in my case, it may not have simply been a moisture sweaty kind of. Irritation The Internet tells us that many people have. So the one of the alloys that's in the risk in the watch. The backside of the is actually glass and it's the strengthened glass and apparently one of the allies are one of the materials they use to make the what the glass strong is Nichole. All right. And apparently a lot of people skin reacts to Nickel and although I haven't been tested specifically for that. That's my current working hypothesis is that I in fact have skin sensitivity to the nickel because for example, for a while I change to my wrist, just to kind of get it off the risk that was all nasty and the other is within a dare to start to get rid too. So I. Think I was developed. So now I'm wearing the watch with a sweatman I literally have created a little sleeve that is on my wrist so that the watch so that my skin is being touched by the cotton of the cloth in the in the wristwatch and it's been great. Now, I've been wearing it again for almost a week now, and there's no recurrence of the rash so and all the other functions were. Like your heart monitoring. That's a good. That's a very valid question. All right and it appears yes. It's a as near as I can tell, yes. Now, the newest one they just announced a brand new watch the other day that not only does heartbeat but does. What do they call it? Pulse ox does. Oxygen percentage. and. That's kind of cool especially in these days of covid. That watch and that might not work through the cloth I don't know but So I'm experimenting with different different ways of of of basically Putting barriers in there. To, protect my skin from my watch which I because. My if my arm, my hand falls off my in falls off but I need to have the latest gadgets. That's all I have to say and I. have nothing to add any of this. Okay. Do you you don't worry? Don't. See, you don't even wear hats. Your is has been a problem. This has been UK problem since the beginning of time excuse me well, we'd be such a natural for us to have had. Jeff Ward wants actually made a pirate you I'm uncontrolled airspace at. A you cap yes. The the CAP, right? Yeah and But we've been unable over the years to ever do I'm happy I'm happy to do has his swag. Aware I won't I'm I'll take take pictures of me wearing but I'm not gonNA wear it routinely All right. Yeah. So because I don't I just. The whole thing just bothers me I don't know I know I I'm not sure I guess I'm trying to make fun of you a little bit here but but mostly yeah. I noticed. I don't. You Know I. didn't wear wristwatch for a long time but and I didn't either. But I went back to one about five years ago because I got tired of. Digging my phone out of my pocket to push the button to tell me what time it was. But there's clocks everywhere. Let's what I discovered over the years I debate Scott to on the radio one in the in the instrument. Yeah and I also in in my years of not wearing a wristwatch I long ago learned that you kind of get used to where the clocks are in your world. You know I mean not only in your home but you know as you're you know the various places that you go your your local coffee place or whatever. This is the microwave has clocked. You know the kitchen stove as o'clock the cable boxes have clocks, right? So clocks are are pretty easy to come by these days. Although. I will also confessed though that during the week and a half two weeks that I took the Apple Watch off because of the risk. The first day that I had no Wotton, it didn't have the Apple Watch on. Have looked at my risk for the time four or five times that day. All right and and even made me laugh every time I got really Jack. I didn't even know you were doing that but you are apparently so. So. That's my my story here I don't know I. Know.

Jeb David WanNa Tim Tim Tim Tam California Jeb Peter Gabriel Jack twenty twenty US lax JEB Mike Thomas Dolby Gilbert Godfrey Lincoln Florida America Ebay Qantas
#1225 - Theo Von

The Joe Rogan Experience

3:14:01 hr | 2 years ago

#1225 - Theo Von

"Hello friends. Welcome to the show. This episode of the podcast is once again brought to you by the cash app. The number one finance app in the app store, and what it is is an app that allows you to lot of cool shit. You can buy sell bitcoin very quickly and easily and conveniently and inexpensively. It also allows you to use a thing called the cash card. It's a debit card. That comes connected to your cash app. You can even direct deposit your paycheck right into the cash app. And then you use your cash card than they have a thing called boosts. This is what makes it the most incredible debit card with boosts you pick a boost in your app swipe the cash card and you save ten percent or more at whole foods, just whole foods alone. You'd be like, whoa. It's probably worth gin, but shake shack lay Taco Bell, Chick-fil-A Domino's and coffee shops with coffee shops. 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Kaspar, ladies and gentlemen asleep brand that continues to revolutionize its line of products to create exceptionally comfortable sleep experience one night at a time. In fact, young Jamie sleeps on a cat. Spur mattress, look at that rested. Motherfucker he comes in here. Looking good. He got some sleep. Refreshed. A casper mattresses are perfectly designed for humans engineered to soothe and cradle your natural geometry now most people don't even think about this. But you spent one third of your life sleeping. She become favorable casper brand mattresses combined multiple supportive memory foams for equality sleep surface with the right amounts of both sink in bounce their designed developed an assembled right here. In the good old US vi-, affordable prices because casper cuts out the middleman and sell directly to the consumer no hassle returns. 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Clear. Audio an instant sharing across any device, desktop laptop, tablet or mobile, the HD video is fantastic. And the first time you use it, and you see forty nine participants live on it's green. It's gonna blow your mind with zoom. You can share anything with anyone from any device. A word file a spreadsheet a presentation deck YouTube video photo from your phone zooms. Everything you always wanted video communication to be with some amazing features that you didn't think of, but you wonder how you live without them. And you can even set up a green screen behind you and make a backdrop of your clients logo or some exotic location like you ability. I don't need you bitches here on the beach, drinking my ties, the only limited your match nation. You already use zoom. You know what I'm talking about? But if you don't find out, visit zoom dot US and set up your free account today. Meet happy with zoom. Video communications set up your free account today at zoom dot US. My guest today is one of the funniest human beings of all time for sure legitimately dude makes me laugh as hard as any person other than Joey dis grip. Give it up. For the great and powerful deal. Von. The Joe Rogan experience joy. Joe Rogan podcast. Baller? Jimmy. I want to show you. Through use wetter. And saw bad sweater sweatshirt. You weren't it's very cool. But this is a this is a symptom of everything is wrong. Go ahead. This. Are we on you? It's yeah. We're on. It's got fake short sleeves. It's got fake short sleeves over long sleeves. So the short sleeves are so din. That's not. So it's not attached. How's it worked? Then the the short sleeves it comes apart. But this sleep part of there's not a separate. So it's two pieces. I didn't know that when I bought it either. But when you pull the sleeve up what happens. Oh goes all the way over the top. Oh, I see a separate hood. So do you wear the two of them together or they just sold on just bought it? There's a whole rocky thing that this company. Did it whole bunch of pieces. And I was like, oh, that's kind of cool. So semester Sloan is slated to come on the podcast you will wear that. Correct. And he's here, please. Okay. All right. So is that but the upper shirt is just laid over the tops shorts long-sleeve shirt. So you could wear one without the other like you could wear the short sleeve one. Okay. Just to sweatshirts. But it's the training montage. Oh, it comes. It comes as a team. Is it heavier is it light? It is not light at all. I'm starting to sweat right on store. But that make you stronger, if you've got a heavy shirt, I think that's the idea. So we are here in some shit goes down. I may have to bolt from the podcast because there's mandatory evacuations all around here. Really? Yeah. What is it live all in Ventura? County. There's all these mandatory bees honeybees is it. Really? Yeah. They're making too much, Honey. What is the mudslides? Oh, wow. I didn't know that I had to pull off one time that a bunch of Bs on there. Really? Yeah. Huge odds, man. Wow. And you see, you know, a lot of homeless people, and they don't do anything. But when be show up they fucking get to doing shifts. That's one thing. I noticed quickly. Yeah. Yeah. Is it an interesting how they get motivated by these these will motivate anybody, you know, you know, you know, you not all cracked out once the beach show up to I watched bees communicate with each other. Once I was onset of fear factor. We cover these people with bees. And then a neighboring colony colony that actually lived there local colony came. And we're like what are you guys doing here and the bees all flew up in the sky together, and sort it out in the sky really it was wild. We had the guy told us like the beekeeper is like everybody's gonna stand down. We've got a backup get out of the area. We'll like what? So. Yeah, they have to communicate. I thought he was joking. Let them do it. They have to talk it out about. Well, they talk. What are they gonna say? There's something going on with them that we you know, we just kind of subtly we sort of get what they do. Yeah. Yeah. They're kind of like little little kind of liaisons. It seems like like I wonder if in the future, we'll know that like certain animals can like. You know, take messages around for us. And like if you told an animal something could go a wonderful start using animals more because animals, are we don't use them that much. I mean, they're sitting around most of the time. Right. I've read something about they were trying to encode information in DNA. We could ask Mike Tyson about his pigeons. Yes. I think that's different though. Carrier pigeons used to care shore long. How about game of thrones them Sam? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. For sure. But whatever for whatever reason it makes more sense with birds. Yeah. Right. Like a bird seems like you should be able to train it a little bit. Oh bird. You could train some birds. I think summer that thing would do their own thing you this. If you had an important message. Would you just send one raven? That's what I'd never got sent a fly. What are you crazy live that God damn thing? It's eating an eagle Jackson along the way, the fate of your kingdom is at hand, sir. Yeah. Yeah. You can't put that on the back of one bird that I would send a bird. Nobody would expect, you know, a little warbler something or a Nightingale. Oh, that's a good move. Yeah. You got to send a bird that nobody wants to shoot though. Shoot birds will our will to do we had owl too thanksgivings ago. We had two hours at my sister's house, I saw one last night. Actually, did you. Yeah. It was pretty knowledgeable night before it was pretty fucking cool pulled into the driveway and our took off who's big to it's gross at thank howls the meat you ate them. You're saying. Yeah. But the years eight owls. Yeah. That's legal pressure and say that on the podcast. Well. I didn't have a lot Bill Burr used to have a joke about even spit it out. I'm not even joked Bill Clinton he smoked weed, and they had to they didn't have all the thing. They don't have a lot of meat on them off fucking Cowles. They're predators. They're important. You don't have rats everywhere. Yeah. But you know, they're I think they're violent than they're dirty. And they they get this als whoever did their PR you notice. Everything's they're smart, and they can read and they're like, yeah. They had a good PR. Yeah. Right. Yeah. Look at that. We only got one option but see almost little meat is on them. You think there's more? Look, he's kidding kidding. Folks. He's not eating AL's the one in the middle looks like it's another planet. You know? Yeah. Yeah. And that's what that's what it really looks. Like, it looks like that fluff little alien raptor creature. I was a crab looks like a crab was driving home on one was flying above me on the road and dropped a rabbit. He had got a rabbit and jacked it flying with the rabbit. And as he was flying just decided like maybe decided the car was too close to him. It was too loud or something like that. I just drop that rabbits at fuck it, and I stopped the car and to check it out. It's like, whoa. That's flirt. And really sounds like flirting. Oh. Trump's pick your feet a bitch. Yeah. It's ready to fuck. Probably. Yeah. Like an offering look for more with that came maybe. Do the predators? Man. We never thought of them growing up as predators talk. They told us they were wise they had that Monaco like fin. Like Budd Friedman. Yeah. Need the improv that planters peanut but Friedman from evening, the improv his whole deal was yet. I loved even at the improv when I was a kid or saw oh man that was like one of the reasons why I got into stand up comedy. I watch these TV shows syndicated TV shows that they would do you know, VH one had one MTV at the half hour comedy hour. What time did it come on? I don't remember, man. You'll remember that was bud. But it was probably night. He looks like planters nut. But then one of the owners he sold it eventually and Chit chain cashed out about from Brian Friedman in the left corner on the different dude. Yeah. Interesting a lot of freedoms out there. But anyway, bud ran he was the host of evening. The improv, and we come out with that, Monaco. Go back that Manco picture lower left. Bam. Those him see Google Budd Friedman evening at the impr-. Prov. That's okay. Yeah. Nice guy. Real real nice guy. He was real nice guy. Always always to me, always very very friendly. Who's a very gregarious guy. And he. Basically, it was one of the original owners of evening of the improv and evening theme. Pro I don't know. I don't know the full history of the improv. I probably should. But I think I wanna say it started out New York. Yeah. Because I know there were there were ones everywhere at one point time. They had one in Boston for a little bit an improv. Yeah. Yeah. They had one in Boston. And then they changed it to a different. Name started hell's kitchen and nineteen sixty three. So that was probably one of the original standup comedy clubs, probably one of the top two or three. Do you have a favorite like a club when you were like doing clubs more together like a favorite one? I was just happy to get on stage back, then, you know, I mean, I had favorite ones like Nick's comedy. Stop was always a favorite in Boston. Right. Stitches stitches, moved a couple of times stitches move twice. What about any of the funny buns? Or did you go to any of those places? Yeah. More for the Boston clubs. The comedy connection was the big one. And now, that's. Wilbur theatre. It's really weird because it used to be the smallest club in town. And everybody wanted to work it. It was like one hundred. I want to say they could stuff maybe one hundred and fifty people in there. But I mean, stuffed this room this this ceiling was low. I mean, I'm five eight and I remember I could appreciate I could touch the ceiling. So this shit is low. So if you were like Owen Smith. Yeah. Or, you know, so intolerant along on like you. It's a big stage for you like big people real weird on that stage. Yeah. But the the laughs would be so contained it was so low ceiling and tight I love that. I saw Hicks there for the first time first time I ever saw him was there. I was like, whoa. He was doing this pit about Jimi Hendrix meeting Tiffany at the mall, Tiffany, the singer. Oh, yes. She was real popular. Then I think we're alone now. Yeah. Yeah. That song make you just be a wreck. I remember on the school bus so fucking erect, bro. Dude. I remember that shit bra. Did I love being a wrecked? And I was young man. Now, it's whatever now, whatever. Now, I'll have to do something. Now. What do we know? What is my dick needed do? Right. So you eat now. So. I'll tell you this. If you wanna feed a family of four you can't just have one hour. I will say that. Well, if you look at what it looks like without the feathers. It looks like some saying in demon. Yeah. You know, he's a real bayton switch I feel like it's wanna God's hidden agenda. So I was talking to someone about peacocks about this. I started talking about on stage. But like peacocks are pretty took their feathers off you'd want kill it with a hammer. Yeah. What is that? Fuck is that it wouldn't let that thing anywhere near your kids will have their feathers on you. Let your kids get right close to him. Hell, yeah. But with no feathers. Dark skin like charcoal, covered this Garrity and the little nubs all over it. Look fuck look at that. It looks like a lane murderer looks like a little twang out on the town creepy murder a little bit probably a little gray and pink murderer. Is that what it looks like when mains? Oh is that real on my duck face? Yeah. That's a duck, bro. It says picot data. Right, though, go back up picture, they have a different head go back to that peacock picture that you just had that head. That's a totally different Headley beak shaped different play. That's the problem with the internet. So hard to tell that's a duck, son. Who is? Yeah. Those are duct on that page or something like that. Well, it says right there said feathers ripped from live birds didn't rip feathers off peak cars, zeal Hicks, a nice guy. What was he like you eat them? Eat them. I met him. Like, hi, hey, I was I was an open, Mike. Gonna talk to me. Yeah. It's like, you know, I say hi to everybody. I run into like door guys. I always try say hi to everybody. Yeah. Because I remember what it was like when I was an open mic and seeing these guys couldn't even talk even imagine that we were the same thing. Couldn't talk to them. You know what I mean? Like the big comedians. You mean fuck you like Bill Hicks would come into town. I didn't wanna say hi to him a be super annoying. Right. Because what are you back it up with? That was always my thing. I was so stupid back then to now pretty dumb now. But it was really dumb back that. Yeah. There was no way had anything to say, dude. I think there was a time your life. You were the dumbest that you'd ever been. Couple of weeks ago. No, I don't know man about I definitely have more data to work with now. But I've forgotten a lot of shit to. But like, do you think there's generally a time in people's lives when they what they should know kind of and the there's like a kind of like a middle ground where maybe it doesn't well for sure when I was in my early twenties for sure when I was in my twenties like deep into my, you know, it took me into my thirties to kind of fucking. Shake my head loosened figure out what the fuck I was doing. Yeah. Do your twenty when you think about twenty bright direction. No idea whether or not this comedy thing was gonna work out. I'm like, what am I doing? I'm telling jokes Jesus Christ. And then tell them when you go back home and they've never seen. You never heard you. They think you're gay vote. Like like, you keep flying home. You don't have any money, and you're bringing a girl home, you're hiding. Yeah. You're from sounds. You know, just come out. I remember my stepdad is yelling at me in the yard one time. So just come out. Yeah. I was like, I'm not footing gay. I'm not flying some girl home that I just met. You know, just off route t a hat. You can catch you to lie. Yeah. He thought maybe he was going to leave. Yeah. Like set a trap gonna set a track setting the trap. He's like a slick boxer. Trump just come on. Oy. Like what the fuck that's one of the reasons why young boys will always accused each other being gay because it's so hard to prove you're not yet. But someone says you're gay. You take that off me. Crazy. The worst has got to be if someone says you're gay, and you are, but you don't wanna know. Yeah. That'd be yet. Yeah. He's change your clothes. The next day. He come dressed like an a mafia outfit or something. Like something. Totally take them off the trail. You know, you just wish you could say you were. Yeah. You wish you could say, you were I think now, you can I think it makes a lot of places it. I mean, I would love to think that everybody's like the people that are around us where they literally don't give a fuck. Yeah. Justin Martindale or look our language is funny. And after that, it's cool to be around. Those are the things that are most valuable in our world funny and cool to be around those two things. Okay. Someone's funny and cool to be around. We don't give a fuck if you're a guy a girl trans gang. Yeah. Funny. Ghost cool to beer. Yeah. Do you think this goes at the comedy store? I I don't know. I have some friends the other day, I was trying to give them the whole tour. He tell them how it used to be Ciro nightclub bugs. To own it. I didn't take all the way. But I showed him, you know, you go through the back room of the main room that that used to be like their hideout shit. A to- told them about all the ghost stories that have been filmed there. But I don't believe it. I don't think it's real. Why think I'm surprised we don't have more ghost animals? You know, what I think I think it's you this is what I think for real. I think when you think you can probably tune in to something that happened in a place. That's what I think. And I think if you trip yourself out, you could see things that aren't really there. And I think that it is entirely possible to ghosts aren't real. But that you seeing a ghost Israel. Yeah. That I think that you can get your body until like such a frenzied terrified state in view are open to the idea that ghosts is a real thing. Your mind can fuck with you. Yeah. Ghetto boys. You minds playing tricks on you. Yeah. That's what I think. I think legitimately. And I also think that if if you hit the right frequency, I bet you get holdups. Like just a ghost of a memory of someone getting killed in a place, right or something horrible happening. The ghost of a memory. Oh, I think that's next. That's one of the next things. You're going to be able to do like a gang sign in the air, a special gang sign, and then a fucking the truth is going to pop out right in front of you like I think we're going to start to learn a carry Potter type shit. Yes. Are like maybe a song. What if the a certain like playing of Lear exert our notes in a row would reveal like the past right in front of you like, I wonder if there's some, you know, magic little warp holes or something. Well, we'll think about what music does do music. Literally changes the way your body feels like a drug like if you were a kid. Okay. And you heard that rocky song dot, Don. Don, Don, Don, Don dot you could run faster. You would get more fired up you'd be able to do more pushups or my stepdad does to you. But you will probably a lot of dudes probably but the. Point as you would for sure get energy from that like a drug. Yeah. Because that was a Cup of coffee you'd be like this coffee is good, right? You hear that song put up that video the other day? Oh, yeah. Reposted vibrations sand. Yeah. If you look deep into this topic of I- brations and symbols that come out and explain to people what we're talking about kind of different. It's hard. I posted it on my Instagram. I reposted it because it's really fascinating that it's it seems like it's just a matter. That's charged writing vibrated. Let's explain what's happening for the people that just listening to play this video because it probably taken down. It's got a lot of users. Lots of different versions of this online. It says amazing amazing amazing residents experiment. So they put some San is it San it's probably salt. Okay. They put some sort of powdered stuff Sanders salt onto a black matte that's charged and then they send certain hurts. Through this one's three thousand eight hundred thirty five hurts, and then it makes a different patterns craze on the we'll get this three thousand nine hundred seventy five like every time they changed the hurts. It has a different panel that four thousand forty nine look at this pattern. So they are way. That's unbelievable. But yeah, these are also you can take these numbers, and these can also be notes darkhorse demanding on a piano or used to hearing singing. Right. So these can also be recreated in other ways in are probably happening right in. That's how like maybe one of those earworm gear your the back your neck vibrate or something like that. Would if a certain hurts to spelled your like your grandparents name. Well, what's interesting is the each one of them are different geometric patterns there these beautiful patterns, they're gorgeous. And as you change the hurts the patterns morph immediately. Yeah. And but the thing is they're kind of fractional like not facto, but they they seem to be. What's the word e equal on both sides this word, I'm looking for parallel. No, I think you're you're on the right topic. If the numbers a little more round around number these are not Vic hurts like if you do a specific like twins looking different than identical. But anyway, the both sides are exactly the same. And it's separated in this one. They're not it's not separated in a half. It's it's all like the circle is the center, and it all goes out from there. But they're different every time. But they're all even like. It looks the only thing that's keeping it from being perfect is that they run out of sand. And it looks like the power is centered around the centre part with the wires are connected to. So that's the most potent but to beautiful so that may like if you think about that like, maybe if there's a certain hurt going through the air like in space, then it would form like a solar system game on better the feeling that you get from like rocky, right? The feeling that you get from that song. Don, Don that things going through your body s. Yeah. It could literally could be like a little drug the think about why people like music so much because that musician is your drug deal. Yeah. Okay. You hear like some old Elton John like you're in your car and Saturday night comes on your fucking goosebumps. If you haven't heard that song in a long time, and you don't expect it. Oh fuck. Yeah. Jesse had friend. That would make you wanna you know. That's a good song too. Is good. This was done with my like, I was saying with musical notes. How on water we're looking at the thing. It says the Saimaa scope is that how you say that Cy CYMK scope uses a high definition camera to monitor the effects of an individual sounds particular vibrations on purified water revealing for the first time what Pino notes look like. There are people out there so much more than you and me. Oh, yeah. Oh god. It's it's amazing that we're considered the same thing. You know, what smart people really smart people have someone like, Sean Caroline, the physicist in the has to breakdown particle physics and shit. You like is it hard doesn't even get in. Yeah. Does he I can repeat what he said. Yeah. Well, fuck it means when people start talking about quantum quantum things and quantum theory and quantum particles as danger, dude, I don't get I don't trust that kind of stuff a lot of it. Well, how about you know, what superposition is is the ultimate what the fuck where particle can be in the state of motion and be still at the same time. We'll good luck with that. Good luck yet. This magic world that you've created crazy scientists that. I don't understand. Yeah. I would rather do something more chill than that. What the fuck? Something can stay sign applied or go for a run or some. Being rather than studied that or rather than be that particle? Oh, rather than study that in be? Yes. Like, I just think, but don't you want someone to know because don't you benefit from cell phones? What about the the the such few people know that if they all wanted to lie to us, and they could they would have to be conspiracy. Nice starting to and some other people in. Let's go get some tin foil. But while I didn't know that that that your body would do that the reason why they would never do that. Because scientists whole deal is figuring out shit of the scientists didn't figure out. That's like the best thing. They can do the best thing. Scientists can do is a real honest to goodness breakthrough. Would you have sex with the scientists who think Calica movie scientists so she keeps glasses on? Yeah. They're always blonde the movies right side. Now, sometimes it dark black hair to mysterious. I bet they're cleaned to if you fuck scientists yet, but they have a clean apartment, maybe. But maybe not maybe they're fucking brain is like that chalkboard with all the scraggly alien mathematics on our. That's true. Tattooed us but dirty math tattooed around their push. I was reading other. But I was reading this thing's about Richard Feinman. Feinman was fine was a scientist. He was a physicist. And there was an article about him like was Feinman abuser. But it was it was talking about Richard Feynman. And how you know he's to just his wife said he's just do nothing but calculations all day, and then he wanted to play the Bongos, and he didn't want anybody to bother them. But like he had a quote from one of his one of his books, and it's crazy reading, and it's like, I just see if you could find it because it's a really it's a crazy, quote, call on women bitches, and I'm like what like that. There were that that, you know, I just I don't want to paraphrase. It sounds like I don't want. I can't deal with these bitches around here. So I think he was a funny guy rise what I think hard. It's hard when you see things intact because you think okay? Maybe he's I really mean terrible person. C I Dopp did the attitude that those bar girls are all bitches that they aren't worth anything. And that they're all in the all they're in there for is for to get you to buy a drink in there. Not going to give you a goddamn thing. I'm not going to be a gentleman to such worthless. Bitches? And so on he writes, see, but I feel like and so on when someone says and so on that implies that this is taken out of context, if my mind is what does that mean? And so on that means to me what I'm getting out of this. If I if I was gonna guess is that he goes on he s-, he might say, this is how I felt back then, and obviously changed my mind he could have been eighteen when you talk about this or sixteen. I don't know what the fuck variety. But he also could be very funny because he was apparently a very funny guy. So the the title of his book is surely, you're joking Mr. firemen, that's nice then. But if it so like, if if someone said that I dumped it all these bargirls bitches, they said it funny. Could you see those those same? They're all involved, really bitches. But it's all depending on how old is to or it could be that's really how he was. Was and maybe he got married maybe got in trouble, his wife, and he had to say this. You know, I don't think that's I think he's talking about when he was younger. But it's I could see that though, you're at the bar if you don't like real loud music, and all the girls are just drinking with bunch of in. I'll be like all these girls are a bunch of bitches probably. Yeah. But that's a lazy way it is a lazy way thing. And it just makes it is you can judge, and you can control the scenario is look if you go into room and ten girls are in there and seven of them are fucking super annoying. And you say these bitches are all annoying you're being super rude. Those three that aren't. Yeah. And they might be some decent girls. But that's why it's weird. Yeah. It's like it's weird to hear a high level famous scientists probably I think the article they're saying the second. Yeah. Beyond beyond Einstein. He's the second fame most famous physicist, especially a scientist because you think scientists would know that there's a couple of these bitches could be variable know, I'm thinking this might have been a quote from him when he was. Young. Yeah. That's crazy. Said that or him criticizing himself when when you young, but I don't know. I'm just guessing I was hoping that it would be that bad. It's crazy to read that dude a lot. Sometimes I miss being young, man. Don't you miss it sometimes? Well, no, and yes like it. Looks like fun to have no responsibility to be twenty two and be backpacking around the world or doing something silly. And not having a place where you have to go or bunch of bills. But. On the other hand, I feel so fucking ridiculously lucky that I get to be a comedian. Right. Like, I don't want to try to do this again. Yeah. Why would I try to do this when I'm doing this? But yeah, but to go back out of Smith being young, and like member Knapman, we took a nap, and you were young could last you putting didn't care lasts for three day. Yes. But I think one of the secrets to happiness is to never look back at any point in your life and wish you were back there because A it's not possible. Right. And be if you didn't go through that you wouldn't be you if you would go back now and be twenty two again and broke and fucked up with all the information you have now he'd be like shit, y'all. Don't know I had a fucking Netflix special as house killing it out there decide to start over like an asshole. Now here I am beyond. But I'm broke can't even afford vitamin fuck. I guess the first thing once. I work out hard, man. I'm gonna take care hottie. You're right feed. It the right food. I can't afford Rama noodles meeting. Rama noodles every day. I'm gonna get breaking joints. Yeah. Terr- muscles and shit. You're you're going to beat now. Let me fucking catch it. Squirrels my yard. That's when it gets bad. I'm not as. I'm not either. I miss my body being young, dude. How old are you? I'm thirty eight shut your mouth, you're fine. Just got to work out. Yeah. You don't work out. I just started getting back into it. Yeah. That's all it is doing some yoga. And I wanna go travel Brazilian jujitsu. Downtown slowdown with that k yourself in shape. I yeah. That's my. Yeah. My advice because we trying to explode and get out of things. Look, don't listen to me. You can start you jitsu and be in terrible shape. Shaping getting shaved through jitsu. You can. Yeah. Absolutely. But if I was going to advise someone I would say if you're going to do something that's as physical as jujitsu, I believe that you should arm or your body. What I mean by that is like your shoulders, your knees. Your back your neck, those are all areas that if you don't work out at all. They could break susceptible they're susceptible. So I would always advise that someone does a bunch of cows jenex, particularly like like the classics pushups situps bodyweight squats chin ups, those all those classics do a lot of those get you just get your body accustomed to resistance training. Right. Do that first. Then I would move from the I would always start with a with calisthenics always start with that. And then from that move into weights do like, some kettlebells take a couple of months, you can take a couple of months before you just jump right into jujitsu if you don't have. But if you're an athlete, right? And you could just jump right in right guy. Already does basketball you already wrestle. Oh, yeah. Jump right in. But a guy who doesn't do any exercise at all. Yeah. Jujitsu so rough on you. Yeah. I used to do I used to do the we should up steroids on the side of the interstate. When I was growing up shoot on the side of the road. Why wouldn't you go home? I was more of an outdoor thing. I felt like, you know, I didn't wanna bring that shit in the house, but we would. Me. And a buddy of mine is do Billy Conforto actually, and he passed away our IP, and he died he had a bunch of pills and actually drove into an embankment one time. But let's go. Oh, yeah. Can you imagine about where to go? And he, but he was a busboy, and I was a bus boy, and he would. And yet we both like to go to the gym. And he was like the first gay man that ever met. And then he, you know, one time he got some steroids or something. I don't know. I think everybody was doing them. And then we just really pull over and do and then just go to the gym, you know. Do one time a guy in New York said I'm going to get some drugs in the middle of the night. He went came back three hours later a steroids party. Wow. Whose party sterile like fog? No, bro. I'm leaving tomorrow for I was there for about eight months. How come so I was just kind of trying out the comedy scene there? And seeing what it was like, why did you decide to leave? I don't know. I guess that's one of like a new. Here's what it was. I never wanted to get old and say that I didn't try it too. Go to LA two to try New York to. Oh, right to never have even just six months. Even have like an experience there. You know? Well, it's a hotbed for sure. The to hotbeds right now are here and there. Yeah. Those are the two hot beds, and there's all this debate as to like, which ones better whatever it's silly. It's a great hotbed no denying that. There's some world class comedians over there. And then there's ones that show up there in here like Chapelle, he's always bounced bounced back and forth. Chris rock was always bouncing back before Louis would news working in here. But will Louise working again, he's alert working at the improv right now who seek in San Jose. Oh, wow. That's cool. I think he's going to sell it a world tour in like a year for sure for sure her next month, even if he wanted to. Yeah, for sure, you know, I mean, it's it's interesting this whole bit about the parkland shooting. Oh, yes. Stirred up all this controversy. That is. So that such a Louis C K bit. It's it's almost like people don't understand what kind of comedy. He did bright. He had suddenly they forget who he was. We've you look at his comedy. You're not even surprised that he was jerking off. You know, kind of room service sort of d you know, but he's he's his style has always been like that. I mean, he's his style is always very irreverent. Yeah. Saying fucked up shit. You can't believe he saying, and you know, well written and well thought out stuff this is stuff. He's working on. And this is the people like, you know, how could he joke? It wasn't even that good. He's probably wrote it that day two days before who knows how many times done that bit. But I guarantee you the guy takes ten months office stand up, and then he's starting to do it again. I don't he was scared. I bet I don't think I would ever joke around about that. I definitely wouldn't joke around about. But you can. Yeah. Eight I don't know if I would it just wasn't wasn't as best stuff. It wasn't good. It's like wasn't ready. Yeah. But maybe he could have come up with a different turn on it. Where wouldn't be as offensive, and it will be way funnier. That's what working on a bit is all about right? Like fuck look Holtzman, Brian Holtzman, if he had said that exact same thing that Lewis said, we would be howling. Yeah. We'd be in the back of the room slap in the table, Howland laughing. Yeah. It's been. Talk. 'cause you put the fucking fat kid in a way literally that's a bit. That Holtzman said we will be crying. We'd be slapping the table. We'd all gather around and watch him late nights an issue. Right. It wouldn't be an issue at all. Because we know that it's humor is that. Yeah. It's a fucked up thing to say that's kind of the point the whole art form is about saying things that are funny sometimes saying things that are funny are self deprecating sometimes they're fucked up. Yeah. There are always different sometimes saying things, they're funny is really door -able someone will say something it's real door. But also hilarious. Yeah. Or your act? This is odd odd and hilarious. Just very very THEO. Von. Yeah. If I had to describe your act that say, it's very THEO von, really, it's you you know, how to do it. But it's like everybody does it different folks. And you know, you take a set from someone who's just working stuff out. And you pretend that this is he's probably. Half those words, he saying he's probably trying to be in the moment. He's probably got a place to go kinda got some punch lines. And hoping that he'll see something in it while he's doing it and working it out. And then you listen to the recording, and you go why did I say it that way? Why don't they do this? And you changed that and add this and its history. Learn yeah. And then, you know, it just can't expect them all to be good either like immediately, especially when the guy's been on trial, like, you know, then, you know, under the social pressure and just like, you know, in probably been dealing with remorse and going to sell out. I mean who knows what he's been doing? This is my this is my take on a lot of this. And I think there's an important thing to say, we can't lose, our empathy. We can't lose our compassion. We we we should be compassionate towards victims. We could we should be compassionate towards each other. We should be this tendency to wanna stop people from working and being like. There's a certain amount of time where it passes in starts to look like the you don't want anyone to have a path to redemption bright, which is everyone's got to have a path to Redan too. Because we're all faulty all human. But there was an article about it that I just re tweeted today from Nick Christoph Kaz who is a professor at Yale. I retweeted it today earlier in it's about callout culture. And the these people that got called out for things, and how would destroy their lives people that you don't even know one small a punk scene where these these two people got called out for stuff. But it's like, oh, the subscription the goddess with a subscription gotta subscribe, the New York Times, bro. You gotta pay for good journalism. I pay I'm having this account. Actually, if you wanna use me have you ever times account? I think I do I had one, but I tried to renew the other day, and I couldn't because these cut stole my fucking American Express card. Get my new one yet who did the people where on some fucking piece of shit criminals. Yes. He's third charged up shit. One of them was toys R us in India. Oh, wow. Okay. I love seeing what people charged when they do steal from you. It is kind of fun. Isn't it? You're like pissed that they stole be like. Oh, wow. A lot was one dollar. I got an Ottoman lot of it was a one dollar on. I was like what are you doing? If you bang, maybe they bang the card out for one hundred one dollars, or maybe just gotta snacks you running places to get a snack. Get a gum. It was. It was all online about a research or something. The other day was eighty eight cents. That would be a stupid thing. Hit someone's card for you'd wanna get a jewel. Yeah. Really, expensive, vape pens. For that twenty nine bucks. How crazy though that that that's the future that now it's like that? Like, I was thinking the other day that having a baby inside of your body. This is going to be like the last. Yeah, this is becoming retro you'll they're going to take it out for sure there was a baby that was born today inside the amniotic sac. Did you see that nessa damn goldfish at it's crazy? You're seeing delicacy places inside the sack. I don't know what the story was because I'm a notorious headline reader, I read headliners googled it. And as there's not a thing if that happens apparently. Well, I don't care if it happens all the time. I wanna see it photos of babies born, but it was an article that was going around the internet today. Baby. Born in video of the baby move it around inside this the sack. It's very weird. That's a Dan got it here. That's a dumb. Dumpling, dude. If you're downtown. Dumpling? It's they're very small. It's not. Wow. CV find it. It was on. I saw it a believe I saw it on Instagram. We see that baby. Man. Do you think maybe when babies are born, right? When they're born look at that, though. That's the thing. That's the baby inside the sack. That's one of the things they eat eat sometimes on those game shows. Oh, so I'm guessing this is a Sicilian section happens. Once every eighty thousand births that is amazing. You could see what the baby looks like when it's in their holy crap. That's incredible. Bro. Initiate was in Spain human beings, making human beings at crazy. This is exactly what I saw this one is the exact when I saw how crazy is that might be upsetting for some. You're about to see the amniotic sac being opened up setting. That's how we exist. Yeah. But people aren't ready for life. We're going to keep you from life. We're going to keep you from everything there. It is banned the sack OSHA Kettering. Now, we could see a little bit of but on that one. Oh, lord. Yeah. I can't do you ever think that maybe if a Brady is born a certain way like missionary or doggy style that it could affect the way that they live their life. I thought about that before you should probably understand how babies born the have to come out head headfirst debate becomes Doggystyle. You've got gotta spin around side the womb literally. Okay. But what if the person is Doug style when they had the baby though. Oh, different thing. Yeah. You kids probably going to be a freak. Dashi darter styles. Like, we're not making. We're fucked doggy style is basically kind of pet. Yeah. It's like getting to know each other quickly. Well, it's just a different kind of fucking. Yeah. It's like, oh, this is thirty shit yet fast or slow. Sometimes it depends on how you're feeling sometimes I'm a sex when I was young man sober sex is for fucking kit is for what does this with you missing your youth? I just love love being. What are you doing? I don't wanna watch the lady give birth. You set up a bit video get out of here. Senate river she's giving birth in a river. It's cold in the river. You crazy bitch. That's melted. Glaciers at Wim Hof. A little kid. And if it's not war, if it's not, then it's warm, and if it's warm, it's filled bacteria get the fuck out of the river. Spill epi, no, no, you can't have a baby in your bathtub. If you live in fucking Brooklyn. God damn hospital on the street. Don't you? Love your kid. Yeah. They figured out a better way. Look lady, first of all she is. She's an Australia. We'll spiders that are gonna crawl into her pussy right now and kill the baby before it even comes out. They have seven of the eight most dangerous snakes in the world or in Australia. He's trying to tell my friend Adam green tree yesterday. Does want to believe me vary? The Brown snake? Australian Brown snake dude, kill the shit out. All that little fucking creek bit speaking Australian Brown snake? That's how she got pregnant in the first place. Dude. A lot of Lamma sister almost got knocked up. My brother wants man, all never know. Yeah. Almost what's almost he fucked her. I mean, I don't know if they fucked, but they will that's almost they were thinking about baby names sell assume that they had had some type of interaction. Oh, so they were going to do it on purpose. I don't know. I think that they're thinking about baby names in case they fucked up, but that's a weird planet ahead how much wear Condor. But I think the dunes move if you think you might have knocked to grow up, and you're still wanna stay whether you like, oh, let's talk about baby names. You know, what I'm saying until you ride out the until you bail that menstrual cycle know until you know, that the menstrual cycle. Oh, you know. Yeah. He's on a full moon or not. It's a weird thing if you haven't sex with somebody and you like having sex with them, but you don't like hanging out with them. Yeah. That happens for guys and girls. Atoms for a lot of guys. I know dude, it happens and girls to it happens. I've heard girls say that I don't even like hanging out with them anymore. But I liked fucking him. It's changing a lot more girls are being very much like guys used to be well, they can be the first birth control pill, then dating apps they can get a hold of people then money. Yeah. Yeah. But the thing about this. About. Dating apps. It's like that's kind of be just as weird as dating for girl almost weirder. Maybe right. Because you can't even see the person. Right. I mean, you can see pictures of them. But you don't see them when they're looking at your profile and right? You should be able to see how they look at your profile. How many people were looking at your profile and any given Mon now, that's a that's a nightmare avid self. Yeah. Me think about that imagine like just people just looking at you and saying, no. And you're in the distance all the time it has to be bad for us. Somebody will say, yes. The the things you're playing the numbers. Maybe in that sense. It's better because the only people that get a hold you the people that say, yes, right? So you miss all the nose true. But what I was going to say is that haven't how to babe someone that you don't really like. Yeah. That's a possibility if you just like to have sex with them, and then when you're done like, I go. Yeah. You can't go because the baby's around fuck buddies. They are everyone has guys and girls. Have fucked buddies. Yeah, I'm almost everyone. I know has had one in the past where you weren't in a relationship with them really drive over and bang and then all right bye. Yeah. Bye. But you kiss at the end that's a lot of chicks these days. I think they just want to see they don't even wanna kiss on someone going to see you do open the door the girls, they're ready to fuck. And then just walks off in the other direction. You're puts a blindfold on. Bird boxes. You dumb with us man done. I feel like they're done. Do you feel like that? I think it's a precarious time. A lot of chicks are probably going Lesbos this week. Oh, it's dude. I'm going to be with Trump. I think the MO the more days that the the government shutdown. The more women are gonna go lesbian gonna hate men so much because it Trump go gay, but people always people right now, that's not how. Remember what I said earlier about jokes? But what's funny to me is gay guys are always like, I'm gonna turn this guy out? And that always sounds mooring does work, but that's owns a law doesn't alarming. But it does work. I have I won't say I almost said his name. He worked on it wasn't his not an actor. But he worked in the world of acting, man. He told me that he blew a lot straight guys. That was just something that happened. They'd have a couple of drinks. And pretend they've never done it before next thing, you know, long long. Yeah. I got that delicious mouth. That's what a lot of gay dudes say. It was the him doing Namur them doing him. But he's like you'd be amazed at how many, you know, air quotes straight guys are out there. My won't. Yeah. It is. Just knows how to swing it. But will you do you think is it less homosexual to jerk golf with your left hand? What are you left handed right hand right handed? So you if you you off with your left hand, it's geared to do it with your right hand scared to my left hand, the one that doesn't work as well. Because it'll take longer you have a you don't really have. But it's understandable. I it's understandable. If you do with your left hand because that's barely even your hand. It's my hand, bro. Lacked. You're not gonna feel that much of it. She jerk them off with your right hand. So you should be affective and get it done with unless you like holding on Dick's longer that don't come yet. Hey, buddy. I'm right here your pal. I know what's going to happen. You're going to come knocking wanna hang out with me anymore. No, no. I would do that. Just go fast. No, I don't believe you. I think you I think you I think using it left hand is that read that's the party move. You know, because it's not you could still use this hand to be on your phone. You can do other stuff. Yeah. But then you're not concentrating on the jerk and the guy off once you commit to doing something gay just get it done, son. Yeah. To get after it. You don't wanna be out there halfway jerk awfully pretending that you're looking at your mentioned. But also what about this? If you you're aggressively very effectively jerk off, right? And then you can barely use your phone. It looks like you were just like a baby, you know, gay or by gentleman. That's on some dope person, you do engage shit with your phone. Okay. I I like it acts as a condom to prevent you gayness, you're doing gate things, man. You're hold onto a dick. You just gotta accept that. And keep moving. There's a lot. You're right. Does stick the next right action? There's gay people doing shit that's gay straight people doing shit. That's gay everything changed jerk that man off. Once you commit to that project. Just keep going and yes, the payoff. What are you gonna jerk in the mall? I don't know. I don't think let me ask you this. Here's a question. Okay. There is a place. They just seem. If life was free really, do whatever you want. If you're a grown adult. You can do whatever you want. That's one of the interesting things about society is that we set up these rules and cultures. And we decide what you can do. And what we decide is different with the decided in Holland is different when they run. Yeah. Everybody's got different rules. Yeah. But once we set those rules, it's very hard to book those rules. Let's just pretend there was no rules would if there was a place where guys would go and guys would jerk them off, and it will jerk like if there was a place where guys straight guy's got a job jerky guys off. But you it you you get paid a thousand dollars an hour. You don't think the straight guys would take that job straight struggling guys than it? Would it would morph and figure out a way? Oh, just over a generation who just a generation or two if you could make a thousand dollars an hour beaten guys off. Yeah started as it does. She needs job if you could wear an oven mitt while you do it. Do we do we figure that out if you could wear an oven mitt while you do no more oil in your bare skin. This the only way to jerk is off you go to quit. Wave do way other ways man, you could definitely do one way. You could do is even union wrap your, and you just do like that release Assad ways like Kentucky Fried Chicken is only one batter. Chris bullshit. Nobody likes that crispy batter. The fuck out of here. I'm trying to think if I had to jerk one thing about jerking off to me, I feel like there's not as much common your body's there. Could you know what I'm saying? You don't get that much out. Well, it depends on what you're jerking off to and you know, how focused you are on the task if you're jerking off while you're looking at your phone. Yeah. But you, you know, checking your Twitter, and you're also beating you have multitask. But you're not going to get a lot no matter. How how how how you do it really? How do you get you get like a little bit? How much do you get? Like if you compare it to something like a quarter. No, probably like, maybe a like an eleventh of a handful. I guess. I don't know how big is your hand. Dude. I can't do you still masturbate as an adult. No, I do it as a job. I mean when you're saying put a diaper on. It makes me feel. Rejuvenating myself. I thought you'd rip your dig off each survey. He'll hold my kids hands. I know how the whole thing gently. Yeah. That's true. Man. I I don't know, man. I I actually masturbated yesterday, and I feel bad about it sometimes, but. Why how does I don't know? For some reason. That's the thing. It's a cultural thing they got us when we're young like think about it this way. Would if the culture was all stand up comedy culture because on arguably stand up comedians have different culture and a different way of looking at things. Yes. And definitely the good very deep camaraderie between fellow practitioners. Right. Yeah. If that was the culture was stand up comedy culture was the whole world. You wouldn't give a fuck if you beat off? Right. You wouldn't even be slightly embarrassed. Right. You tell you tell me where it's Azure. Hari would tell me all the time. How many times beat up towards two? Oh, talk to we all tell each other. How we beat offer. What we beat off to? I don't like it as much as I used to when I was young. Well, that's my thing. You're probably healthier. Yeah. You know, like you've gotten older, you're more comfortable, you're successful. Just feels like. Yeah. Feels like a novice move. It's still jerking off in. It's two thousand nineteen. It's certainly a distraction too. Yeah. Something about especially looking at porn. There's there's. I'm not anti porn. I don't want. Anybody to get me wrong. I think she'd be able to do whatever you wanna do ultimately. And I think a lot of why people have bad opinions about people doing certain things is that we judge people when they do certain things, and we have these ideas about them that we sort of impose on them. Right. But I think for some people porn is very useful. But you have to have discipline. Yeah. See the thing is if you watch porn, and you watch two people have sex and you get excited, and you jerk off you just took care of like some sexual needs that you had. Yeah. What could possibly be wrong with that? The only thing that could be possibly wrong with it is that there's something wrong with these two people having sex and filming it. Well is there like, but doesn't everybody wanna fuck? I don't wanna film myself fucking, but doesn't everybody wanna have sex people love to have sex. It's like one of the most important motivations that. We have. Oh, yeah. Look people leave the house every day. They might have a chance to fuck for. Sure. I mean, why do people why did they get involved romantic relationships in the first place to not just not just be nice to other? But to fuck this. Sometimes that's the whole thing. Yeah. So what is it about two people fucking on film? That's so distasteful. Well, you know. You don't want people to see your special thing. Maybe or like what you don't wanna keep it private. I get all the fancy though. I it. It's too high def though, you get your you see real life can't compete with it. So then it's it's not always the case is just right there. But it's not real life though. It's not as good. It's not as good as real life. But I think that it's visually. It starts to get that it's better. And it starts to get where like sometimes I got like I'm forty days off porno Nagasaki right now. Right. Oh, so you're like on a pornography detox do the I don't ever want to see it again real. Yeah. If somebody tries to get their pussy out. I'm like you stop. But let me let me say this to you though. You also had the same kind of issue with drugs and alcohol, right? So you have like an addictive personality. Yeah. That's a good point. So I've been addictive personalities was saying earlier that I think that the thing of the thing it self is not necessarily bad and for some people can actually provide a service, right? Yeah. Get helps them to jerk off. I don't understand why that would be bad. The only thing that would say is. And this is I don't know how factual this is because I haven't done any surveys. But what I've read is that a lot of the people that get involved in that are victims of abuse. That's disturbing. Right. You don't want to hear that? But then some of them aren't some of them do it because they want to do it. Yeah. Isn't that? Okay. That seems more. Okay. Then someone who's doing it because they're a victim of abuse in their desperately seeking love and attention. And they don't know how how to do it. That's a good point. So then you look at it like in terms of Petit, you just that's looking at that is like well, then don't laugh at comedy, right? Because you laugh at comedy almost everybody. There's comedians fucked up fucked over I mean, that's that's really why they get into it in the first place because they desperately need attention. They wanna be special. They want to be something. They look at me. Look at me. So they figure out how to be funny. Yeah. Usually those are victims of abuse like some way, shape or form, not all. All of them rank is an easy affection. They need the they need something from people. Maybe six out of ten right? Yeah. Baby girl. Yeah. Yeah. So there's so many things that you could look at that like that, you know, like something good comes out of standup. Right. So we just accept that. That's okay. To laugh of these fucked up people. But you know, what? I mean Joey Diaz. Yeah. I mean that guys lived everything he seen everything. But it's okay. It's okay. To laugh at the chaos that his life was because the jokes are so funny. Yeah. You know, it's it's weird. Right. But it's not okay. To look at a like, even the girls enjoying porn, if you find out that some point in time, she was molested, and that possibly was one of the motivating factors that letter into porn, then you get super weird about it. Yeah. Ooh. Then you think about it? They should put that on the thing. Like percentage chance of somebody that was molested in the video. And I think that that would deter people from watching us out think so. Yeah, man. My thing is just I started to think of sex then in frames like, okay, I got to meet the girl, and then we have to walk over by. You know, we have to see this and have to see that then that happens and then now and that sex. So I started to you know, like interpret it that way, and I don't know sexist from when you were young member when you were fucking imagine being sixteen and fucking somebody else was sixteen row. You know, what I want to hear in the background? I saying this song live and let die when you. He's saying, you know. Diana Ross who slingo Paul McCartney and wings motherfucker rings, those from JAMES BOND. Oh, that's right. That's right guns and roses. They would. Would. I was one time where the fucking remaking so good that was kind of. Wasn't their own song. We Ben dancing. Only we hear it has actually been on your podcast. You know, definitely have him on man. Wow. Oh, definitely have that guy on. I can't imagine seems to have come back from the brink. Yeah. Right. Yeah. This who knows what kind of ego happened. And what all happened whenever they went me some volume so I can hear at least I want to hear him say that go. We go. Here we go. Yeah. Lookout. So he was for years. He went crazy. Yeah. Vanished was trying to make that one album forever. Right. Many many years and everybody was like goddamn and axl rose went crazy. And you'd see like Dan was a shame guns roses. It was so good so good. And then slowly. But surely he fucking came back. Really? Keats fucking back like that do tours with ACDC now. Yeah. I mean, he crushes it. I saw some videos of him on stage. He's a fucking animal again. He looks like heart a little bit like one of the heart. But that's just in time. You know, just I don't think it's agent time. I think there's a lot of other ingredients could be shrimp throw some shit onto that mix. We'll solve us ribbon. Right. Yeah. Slash looks the same slash looks society. But that's what I'm saying. They're both the same age started out together or close to the same age. At least dude how much fun must that be decision. I think it's too much fun. This is my theory. I think it's too much fun. And I think they don't even have to write new shit. So because they don't have to write new shit, and it's too much fun. They're out there. Just fucking sin. Bashing every night. Fucking smashing. Smashing shows smashing tour buses and hotel Kisan to smash pussy to smash. They probably crazy. You wouldn't even notice if you fuck dude, if you're that famous you notice I think you're wrong, I beg to differ. Oh, he's kind of teleprompter. What about fast, dude? There's you know, rose at a teleprompter. I guess you want that if you're on all the drugs, and you want all the judge not all the teleprompter. I wanted to be highlighted what to say. I mean, he's wearing hot pants. He is. Uh-huh. Khloe swear, he's very hot pants with high cowboy boots with sock. The mesh top and tidy whitey's. So what is it that make somebody so famous that they get close to being almost like, a bisexual? You think you keep bringing up? All this stuff. Was your step dad? Right. No, bro. Never been gay, man. Never ever never ever ever ever. I mean, maybe when I'm sixty or seventy I'll bust try, you know, come on somebody, but I'm not doing anything. Now, I want to family and everything I think they're so free with their expression right that they wear whatever the fuck they want. And I think that's a part of the culture of really huge musicians is that they get very free with the looks their sexuality like look at him with his own with his ripped up pants axl rose back. When is a key pie or David David Bowie when he was in his handwriting day of prince. I mean, you can go on and on and on about men. Fucking mc. Jagger mean, Mick Jagger would swing. His hips puff is less. Well, this is not will stay pretty manly thing. But he wore women's clothing and women's like, you know, stuff from my. He wore stuff from my scarves and shows that what you're saying. Now, what's that women's clothing store? That's in every like Louis secrets. No, it's for like kind of more, you know, lane Brian lane. Bryant were the big fat lady stuff out. Me. He some dude closed door for fat guys big and tall big and tall. They call it. But that's like some of them are if it's over there on PICO boulevard there. Anthony, always Celso suits over there on stage. Yeah. What's up? There is is that him. Now, that's him. That could be the lady as my end of the craziest, Cheryl swoops. He's. That's right. That's his on a gut hair looks weird like that. It's like he went to great, but that's axel from younger days. So that's when he had vanished for a while. Right. Sort of like when you're resurfaced, I think, oh, but when he did that like he did a big concert in Brazil to right? Listen to that. And his voice was kind of struggling a little bit because he has such a script such a scratchy voice. You know, you gotta think like that voice probably very difficult to maintain. But that primal fucking welcome to the. Do that was this shit. When I was that was like right when I was graduating highschool. I remember worked out this shitty. Little gym. I'd be on the leg press machine. Listen to welcome John what kind of headphones, he whatever they the big ones out. I had a walkman with a cassette. Might have been disk player that one's ridiculous that one makes her oh, who's recent Holly hunter, that's him? Now. No, not Holly hunter Sonneborn bid to lead singer tons and rose Johnson roses, do you. Call him my brother, and I used to beat each other in our room. We'd fistfight in the yard to fucking guns and roses, AC DC. It was a music childhood was was was GR Alison chains. That's a that's a weird. Look, the the thermal the flannel shirt tied around the waist. What's that? Look like, the that's the grunge look. That's right. The night. But it's a weird litter on it. Yeah. Like on purpose as a weird, look, Darlene CONNER, and he's like, hey, I know I'm not going to wear this flannel shirt, but I'm going to tie it around my waist, but hey, it's not really a skirt. Right. It's just like an coup treatment to my outfit of fake ripped pants. Yeah. Right. That's a weird. Look, isn't it weird? Look, would you think you'd rather have a little skirt or like be naked, you think skirt people judging me really looking at my tickets make me self conscious. But what if you had like a little dick Hyder like a little thing that you could still did looked at how big is dick either. You can't get no scape. Would you ever wear a fake, dick? So that people thought your dick was bigger if I did it would be an outrage. My waist talk. You the front tucked in my sock. And it would be green like hell dark green like evil notes. Baked kale. Like that guys is fake, bro. Why are you looking at my dead? I think our people are gonna have Dixon the future. It just seems like everything's going away. So fast other trying to do that with this. New Gillette commercial seen that Gillette commercial? I heard about it that you can shave your buddy or all these this really mad because it's like an anti masculine Gillette commercial and makes like every man logo and piece of shit. It's such a disturbing commercial over and over again men doing Dushi shit. Like, hey, bro. Aren't you selling razors? He change in the world your shitty fucking advertiser based philosophy. What are you doing? What are you doing who fucking green lit this Bill? Atlanta. But like, yo yo guys people get hair they wanna fuck and shave. It does not that. You're not get a fixed. Imagine if you're a sexist rapist piece of shit, and you see that Gillette commercially damn I gotta switch my game. I've been too much of a dent does anybody think the Gillette commercials are somehow and other in any way, shape or form gonna affect cultures bad. You're selling razors is bad. It's just a razor. I'd rather braid my fucking face here than by Gillette buddy wants to be lectured to we're tired of that. So sick of it. You don't have your shit together. Nobody has their shit together. And you tell people how to get their shit together in a fucking razor blade. Yeah. Don't be racist. We know. Yeah. Don't be a sexist. Yeah. We know we know most people aren't. Yeah. There's still you got it like most people are the videos like most people are it's not most people are easy. That's a disproportionate amount of people that are that sorta hate about a lot of the a lot of these idea the ideology today is like like they say everybody where I'm from his racist. Everybody's like. You know, some Christian bible thumping, and that's not true. So many of the people I know are not that at all that it's unbelievable. But so many of the people in some in in these other places, they don't even know anybody from there. So it's like they have no idea, but they immediately stereotype because of your accent to you have a southern accent people assume, you're not bright. Yeah. It's so stupid. But it's also it's indicative of what the place used to be like like what the world used to be like was like a lot of the rural areas were less educated. Now that there's the internet the world is a different place, man. You can be cool. People in Wichita, Kansas. Cool people everywhere everywhere, you go you're going to run into pockets of cool people. Yeah. Kobe blur everywhere, man. So good people, and they're they have different values. And a lot of them are more community oriented, more friendly. We we on this side and those on the east side. Everybody gets this idea that everybody is. The people that live all stacked on top of each other fucking like bees swarm in the high. Most people don't live like that, man. Most people live somewhere where there's less folks gotta relax. They could throw a frisbee and not can hit anybody. That's the most people the vast majority of the country. There's what is there three hundred and how many people billion why does it three fifty already not quite? But I mean, we're on our way. What is it billion million bro million your billion? So I'm glad it's not billion. I think there's you imagine I would say three twenty if I had to guess I'd say three twenty but I'd say it's twenty five three hundred five right? But that's like how do they know about illegals who knows probably two billion if they knew illegal aliens, you be pissed like how do you know, how many of them? What are you doing? You count them. How are they still here? Then what he was. Dude. But you can't even raise your voice in like, I have to drive to riverside, even fucking raise my voice. I feel like that's how to tight it is in a lay three hundred eight million people in the United States in two thousand ten but that's two thousand ten thousand it was two hundred and eighty one million an increase so to look at that, dude. Think about just think of that twenty fucking million people twenty eight twenty nine twenty seven million people and who's fucking the most are they saying is it whites? Oh, it's all whites. Is it really fucking every race now, bro? It's new no decided we decided to take back our country of no, man, we're we're on our way to white people are on their way to being serious minority. Yeah. That's going to happen. Beige power. That's what I say everybody. I look I love all the variety. But you know, what? It's like it's like we have nice things. We can't we we can't have nice things we keep breaking things. Yeah. So we can't because of racist people. You can't have all this. Wonderful diversity. So we're eventually all going to be gray. We're going to be like those fucking aliens with the giant heads, and we're going to have no Dicks, and we're all going to be the exact same thing. So no one can criticize anyone anything other than your thoughts. And they're gonna be able to bring your actions, and they're gonna be able to read each other's minds. That's what I think I think we're going to ruin the environment. So they have built in glasses when you born. They just fucking glue these bitches onto your head sort of like chicks fake eyelashes. Oh, yeah. You just you just have these lenses that you put on when you're indoors appeal the ones as off and otherwise you can just see Nate you can walk outside. You can't really go far. And it's just you see he could press a fern button. Inferno Papa why firm we'll just foliage or something, you know, fallen foliage maybe a deer runs by you hit that Saad. But I think nature in the future will probably be contained in these gigantic dome. Like places like minimum Stephen King books, and that's why you'll go to get into the nature. Yeah. Like a bio dome with paulie shore. Stephen baldwin. I think that's what it's going to be like is going to be there's going to be nature places and the rest of the world would be city the rest of the whole plan will be sitting in our wildlife. Be a bullshit wildlife. It'll be like, you know, you a few thousand acres or something like that of a bunch of animals living together. It's all it's left. It'd be like a like a rabbit with a little story like a story on its back or something because if you look at relation, and I'm not one of those doom and gloom people when it comes to overpopulation, you know, why because I like people when people like ios too, many people don't like I've good friends that thank you know, you want to help the world. Don't have any kids. My okay. Yeah. I get why you'd say that. But don't you like people? I love people. People are awesome. It's all on now. I mean, some of them aren't awesome. But the vast majority are pretty cool. Yeah. Work at least capable of being pretty cool. If you're cool to them, and you stab was sort of a commute. Unity being cool with each other. The vast majority of people are people are nice people friendly. Yes. The vast majority. So what's the problem? The problem is we was too many of us, and we're not gonna stop right. They're going to keep an eye on a fuck somebody right now, you know, we're gonna make people the the question is will they say. Stu- stu- study say scientists say that as people come more affluent. And as they become more educated. They're less likely to have children or they have less children. So they think that the best way to stop overpopulation is actually equity in the world or equality rather. In the world make make the whole world, basically like America, where everybody's just got a chance to get ahead and everybody has an awesome education and everybody has access to the best information can't happen. But if that does happen, that's what's going to curb overpopulation, otherwise the people that are the lease educated or they're not gonna have the same access to like like in in countries where people are poor like, for instance, they want to have more kids because they want the kids to take care of them too. Yeah. That's a big thing. Right. That's a big thing and traditional communities, and you know, they're they're tighter. And you here's the weird thing. If you talk to scientists, they will tell you that. Arguably those are happier. People happy people that live in these villages and stuff, and they all enjoy to this company. Even though in our mind, it's a hard scrabble life. You know, they're living in the third world country in a village. But if they have access to food like if they live in the Amazon or simply they have much food you can get in there. You got a lot of food, man. Like, I know how you would say, hey, I don't wanna live that way. So these people live in the wrong way, they you know, they have fucking ten kids laying on them and shit, and they're all they're all community in this hut together. And you like that that looks terrible a hot bunks in that based to a lot of times, you see the whole families, and they have fucking smoking. Oh. But meanwhile, those people could be like, really happy. Yeah. They can arguably be happier than a comparable group of people in western civilization that you would just grab one hundred percent. And why is it black homes? A lot of black films are still in the woods, you notice that allow the tribes there kind of are there. I guess maybe not black. But it's like a Latino or darker like not. I don't know what she attack is like a more universal shade almost kind of like a so folk color. Well, if you're in the jungle, you're you're obviously in a hot climate if you're in a hot climate, you better develop some fucking Melania. That's what it is as melon and they got more melanin family. I mean, if you look at it, I'm Italian mostly if you look at it, and I have some Irish in me too. But if you look at talion who are in the sun all the time. Do they get Darcus? Fuck. Yeah. You know, and if you were seven seven plus generations of people living in this one area where exposed to like tropical sunlight all the time. You had Brown the fuck up or you wouldn't make it. Yeah. Sure. I'll go to Costa Rica, even a couple days, and I'm fucking, you know, Brown the pace is all you know, kind of has pus and it from the sun. But I think people evolving in a place like that like being there. Hundreds and hundreds and hundreds of years, maybe thousands of years like you adapt to that environment, or you, you know, the. Preferential preferable genes are the ones that make it through. Yeah. And there's people have joy those families have a lot of joy because they have their family around. You know, like if somebody if somebody dies they have them right day. It's like everything's just a lot more communal. I think there's more. The only problem is they don't have like ways to save each other the way we do. Right, right. Like, they don't have cars. They don't have modern weapons. They have to hunt with these bows and arrows, they make themselves, but they do have pots they have some things. But also, depending on what tribe, obviously, and also your life expectancies, probably not as long if you do die, and you believe in higher power. Then you get to go see him quicker. You probably have reincarnation your, you know, your friend that died could now be a plant or a Coyote that you made or something, you know, what I'm sure a lot of their cultures. It's a lot of you know, there's just things are more just all intertwined human in nature with that was big with native American cultures. Right. They thought that coyotes were I mean in many different different tribes with looked to coyotes almost like they had some magic to them or something. Yeah. Why other up all night? I mean, I could see that. You're in that tent sleeping sleeping off that hashish high. Maybe. A Coyote got trapped in a bathroom. I want to say it was in South Carolina or North Carolina. They're wild, man. They in this bathroom, and these guys have to get it out of the bathroom and sitting on the sink. It's crazy and they had to use one of them long. Poles that the Jack dogs, you know, Graham around the neck, you said the Nashville. I knew it was one of those places in Nashville. Yeah. I could see that dude. It's a cool little video. But it's weird. Like, those little fuckers are everywhere. Now, they are everywhere. Well, raccoons are really dangerous you they're always doing, you know, Jerry. The Nashville music hall of this beautiful. So they're in this hall in a boat show. Look at them. Chilin? It's a very photogenic Coyote. How weird so what they did was they captured it, and they said that if they brought it to an animal shelter. They would've euthanized it so instead, they captured it and let it loose in the woods, which do you have any animals that you don't tell people that you have any secret animal, I keep a lot of giraffe. Keep them under leaves. I could see you having something have you thought about it? I used to have piranhas allegedly and what do they keep in a tank tank? You know, used to be able to buy a human skeleton online of human skeleton at the bottom of my prompting Brealey where does that you buy a skeleton and looking you do with it. I don't think you can anymore. I bet you can't buy them anymore, but it used to be able to just by human skeleton. Helen, can you keep it the whole time forever? Who was it? Here's the funny thing, I got rid of it. And we'll get rid of him. Like, ma'am, throw away this human skeleton. It's a question is. You would think it'd be like a cabbage? Patch doll like it comes with a little birth certificate. We bird, which is even worse. Probably then people are going to be like what the fuck someone. Someone got killed here. Someone's going to find it someday go what the fuck it's going to be a giant mystery it sound fun. I always love mystery, man. The thing is somebody might have died like they might have somebody might have killed somebody and sold their bones. It's probably one of those real. What does this say is that limit front say mail from India in good condition? Twelve teeth present the rest broken missing. There is lipping on the lumbar vertebrae what that's five thousand dollars, you could buy a fucking human skeleton. Holy shit. Do there several of them for sale. So the lumbar vertebrae lipping, you know, what that means. I think that means her his backs fucked up excuse me, and what happens is the discs themselves. The lumbar vertebrae of actual vertebrae the bone piece from wearing against each other. It starts to spur and develop like a curve to the bottom. I think they're calling that lipping see if that's what that means. Lipping lipping on the lumbar vertebra lipping lipping on it. Yeah. Yeah. I got bad. Let's see that. Yup. That's what it is. Yeah. See that image upper left left right there. Yeah. See how it curves over the top. Oh, yeah. Osteopor- osteo fight osteo fight grading or lipping. Yeah. See as your disc, get smashed your bones trying to protect themselves, and they grow this extra bone tissue. And sometimes obviously, I'm not a doctor. And if you are a doctor stop yelling or nor I'm talking about. Yeah. But sometimes people that that shit causes sly Attica either inflamed. Discs poke out and poke into the nerves or the bone pokes it or causes inflammation in the area. Eddie bravo. Has that? He goes. Yeah. He bravo. Had had his he got his whole disk replace. Disc autumn. Yeah. Wow. He gained an inch in height to did. He really did was backsaw fucked up. So you think like your disks or these things right? These little things, and there's probably a bunch of them and they bind when they smash and get smashed down to nothing. I mean, he was basically bone on bone. He had long ago disked. So he was in a constant state of inflammation as Anita text. Like, he couldn't he couldn't sit down. Sometimes he'd have to stand up, and he would have to hold his lower back, and he does dealt with the pain forever. But it was like almost nothing there. So they replaced so bones were on top of each other. They replace that. And put this thing they shove it in there. Fucking two story. Eddie, suddenly, he's talking about a new shirts. Yeah. He's but he actually is no longer in pain. That's what's amazing. Yeah. And this is an articulating titanium disc. So they used to have to fuse your vertebrae together. Yeah. That's what I've heard of. They don't have to do that in every case anymore. Sometimes they still do it for some reasons, you know, doctors and no one there. Talking about but for many people now this articulating titanium disc has now an option, I know it out. Yeah. I know that s want surgery part of taken out how bad is it? Is it hurt it hurt bad? Yeah. Now. No better. Now. Sometimes I have sciatica, though, do you ever stretch it out? Yeah. Do you ever use one of those teeter inversion tables? Now, I just got something free from you guys though in the lobby. What's that thing called pro forma or whatever? Oh, that's a so. Right. Yeah. That's so awesome. Massage. Isn't that great? So. Yeah. That's this muscle in awe. I'm gonna come on that day and things. Sorry, bro. Feels good. You are so horny today. Dude, I had to dry it's like twenty minute drive over here. Nothing like driving gave. No, I'll say this thing. They get me. Ereck these days driving being on planes. You know that? Bumpy roads. Killing those bumpy road. Boehner's you Villarreal you asked me one time they had a lady fellow. I got an erection on a plane, and she got pissed she told the she told the flight attendant to give me a blanket. Yeah. Well, did you have it out? No. I was asleep in my pants. It was in your pants. Yes. She saw it somehow to some pants because I wear lean pants lead pants, or you know, it wasn't wearing like a defense hand or anything, you know. Yeah. A sharpie. That's crazy that she's looking crazy though. But I guess if I was a woman in a dude how to rock hard Boehner just like a couple of I would know that's like a ticking time bomb. Okay. All right on a plane. I'm going home. Yeah. But what if you're a pervert, I am a pervert? But I'm still just going home. I use them. I did on what kind of scale of a pervert, are you? If like ten is jerking off in front of people on the subway with a knock that you open a trap. I have a friend. That's a flash of. Well, you this flashes and this flashes at jerk off on people doesn't do that. That's ten nine is a flasher that just pretended. Your funny doesn't finish. Yeah. Or can't get hard. And then you gotta go back from their seven assault bowl five. What are you look at three? No, I. I. I guess perverse perverted tendencies. Like, would I guess it's like would is perverted, you know. Well, it goes back to the porn talk. Like, you said that you had a problem with porn. You're watching too much porn habit for me. That's what I didn't. Like it became instead of me wanting to watch pornography became, oh, I'm used to watching pornography at night, some do it golf and get a little bit of rest. I didn't like the habit of it created a bad habit. Well, you you get real intense thinking about things. Yeah. I'll even when we're talking about like business stuff like you can tell like, you get you focus on things. Yeah. Which is good. If it's a good thing. But sometimes that kind of thinking can get away from you. Yeah. I think it does. Sometimes the same kind of focus that can get you really excited about something. That's productive in your life. Can also get you obsessed with something that's not productive. It's the kind of person that you are in a lot of performers. You're an impulsive creative person impulsive. Creative people sometimes get caught in ruts, you know, and there's a bunch of different reasons, I think for for addiction, I their psychological diction physical Dixon's. Some of them are undeniable physical addictions, some of them will kill you. Like you get off of alcohol. Too quick. You'll die. Yeah. It's a physical addiction. That is real point. You can't pretend it's not real that. It'll kill you. Right. So it's obviously real. But then there's other ones like washing your hands too many times like some people are addicted to washing their hands. I know I did it doesn't go anywhere without pure, AL everywhere. He's putting prelims creches linked to touch doorknobs put touches doorknob pure AL back to the hands. It's weird. And you fuck up your skin flora like it's not good it. We had to do that used to lick both of his shoulders for start talking of. That's good news. My raise motherfuckers. No, you're Sears. Oh, yeah. That's an Irish. Hello. Well, we'll we we're we're we're we're in crazy town. You're the mayor fluky doing you lick your show, isn't that? We had a we had to do in our town. He put like a chocolate on your shoulder, and you try to get it off. That's not right. That guy was going to grab you one. And fuck you. Well, he or something I don't remember what it was. I I'd grown up. But he was he's like one of those anglerfish. He's turned can you getting you look at that. It's going to get you come looking for that chocolate on my shoulder. You know, my shoulder, boom. He looked down. He's got a baton his hands. Well, if you like you on that plane. Get your chocolate could get shock. More just chocolate. But here's the thing. What here's the thing is if you Stevie Wonder movie, just did not just kind of get my neck better. I'm trying to get my neck longer. And we're in a little bit of a neck brace sometimes stretch it out. It's just tight my neck feels kinda or not tight feels short. Yeah. Have you used those things the harness that goes under the chin, you attach it to the top of the door, and you pull on it quickly club seen those those are great, really? Oh, yeah. Yeah. If you have a tense neck. I'm a big believer in that kind of spinal decompression. Yes. There's launched that you can get that. And I got a really good one out here to to really good ones from that teeter company. Will you put your waste on one of them and you lean award and it stretches your lower back and the other one you hang from your ankles. It's really good for you. It feels good to alleviate because it's just like that compression of license of slushing you down. And it's very rare that you do anything that. Like, I have a terrible problem slumping I've always slumped. I've always been like a voice at shit posture for whatever reason, and it's not good. Like you're supposed to set up. Up straight. Yeah. You know, you're supposed to your back. It's supposed to be straight. He can be like sometimes like I sit like this. I'll talk to people to be like that. Like my head is Ford. It's like just very bad for your back. Like, you're making your your disks carry your weight in an uneven way, which you want to do is have everything everything up and strong. Obviously, this is exaggerated. But most people like you get lazy. So what what what good posture is is like a constant state of exercise. That's what good posture wanted to slump. I saw all the time. But yeah, but doing imposture all the time. It feels like you're always like, you know, about to graduate. You know, you always have to be like kind of like, you know, what I'm saying? What it's like. But you don't have to be exaggerated. But you really should. And I've been trying over the last few years really hard to to do that just straight. I need to get an alarm from us mine. That's it. That's the shit. I love that's called the teeter decks inversion, that's one of my favorite things ever for loosening up your lower bag, really decompressing. Yeah. I got one right here, man. And it's not prohibitively expensive. Either. I'll leave that thing right there. When you go down when when press play so you can see how it works. You hang down like that. And when you hang down like that, it just lengthens everything and straightens it out, and that's the one where you hang by your ankles. I love that too. Although it it looks good, right? Cannot even imagine. They have no good for you. I got one right here. But really it feel like something you would do to kill a deer something. No. That's that's a different kind of thing. Then that's wild. Man. I need some stuff on the need to get more. Bars and stuff like that hang off of. I gotta leave you for your shoulders chin up bars. Grab a hold of a chin apart. Just hang hangings really good for your shoulders because everything gets compacted everything gets like punched in nothing stretches out on a kind of SOGA wagon brother, you know, that consta- what does it cost Togo? And it's like a wheelbase is really question was six by six you know, like. You don't move that. Good. I'm I think I used to be able to. But I gotta go onto the past, bro. You're still young enough to move like that right now. Yeah. Oh, that's a constable wagon like that maj. If you just decided that's how you're gonna rocket from now on you're on the highway people beeping at you, get you mode running wooden wheeled wagon. Dragging behind your ram pickup truck. A bar gold. This falls out the man, you gotta Silverado Chevy Silverado. Poland a fucking covered wagon. Like, you can't do that. Why not cars registered? Yeah. It's all legal. We'll fuck is buying wagons. These days people buying them today the wagons coming back. It's just these assholes wanna reenact a civil war. Get out there and a wagon and pretend there's still slavery. We hear that. I understand reenacted in the winter. But they do it in the summer, man. Do they really? Yeah. You don't want to do in the winter. You'll die in the south always wins the reenactment to just while. No. It doesn't really. Yeah. So real I think there's a little bit of this. You do this reenacted civil war and kill themselves not in real life. But in the in the fake, I mean pretend hey, man, I don't want to fight for slavery and just all pretend to kill themselves. Yeah. Oh, that's interesting. Yeah. They should say, hey, we're gonna we're gonna do it the right way. Or we're gonna toss down our guns and suck all the dick of the guys in the north. Yeah. That they would one that. I wonder if they'd said that. They don't want to be like if they catch us there. To feel good in the one apologize. Yes. They need the nutrients throughout their starving. But I was thinking about this. Do you think that so slavery? Right. They had it. Do you think that would if I had this thought of one day would have computers artificial intelligence happens? Okay. Takes over. And then they're all going to know that we had. We own these phones. Yeah. Yeah. Just like people like they were slain like this was a slave member. When you owned my little buddy emotional about that. I see where you're going with that. But I disagree. I don't think that'll be an actual factor. I don't know. I got the rose gold when on dude. But you got a black case on it. That's ridiculous. Yeah. That's true. If you're going rose goal. I think you have to go case looks like out. Way like a savage going case, less man. A lot of people. Go Jamie case lists, are you really teams a cases barbarian. Wow. I bet he jerks off of this fucking his natural hand cute case. My my kid drew on it. That's nice adorable. Do you? See your kids every day. Yeah. Sometimes I keep my eyes closed. This. He was fantastic. Style podcast. Is it were you nervous at first to have them? Yes. Yeah. Nervous to be vulnerable. Nervous to love something that much nervous to have that kind of responsibility nervous about all those things. Yeah. You changes you changes you'll enough announce, but did you feel like the changes would be for like that you won't like the changes? And then you did like them like did you ever survey? Shins? Well, I didn't have a relationship with my father growing up. So for me, it's very it was very very important that I did whatever add to do to have a relationship with them to be as present as I can relate to whatever whoever I was before had them to to evolve to to get better. Like, it's it's a very when you have kids. It's a very weird thing. What happens to you? Because all the sudden, it's you're not alone anymore. You like you. You don't just have responsibility a dog you have to feed or a plant you have a little person. Yeah. And you don't wanna fuck up that little person like shit, and it feels overwhelming and then the world feels so dangerous change the view of the world. There's so much threat. The so much out there that could fry times planes stories to you read stories about terrible people and terrible things that happen. Oh. And then you're like fuck it. I don't have to worry about this. This happened to me afterward when this happened to know somebody else to your little song or your little daughter. You know? Yeah. That's wild, bro. That's crazy world, and you you think of people differently because you think of people is a project that develops instead of being in a static state. That's interesting. Did you did did do you think that something fizz like emotionally happens to you like at a level that DNA level? Yeah. The love you have like Dave chappelle said this best goes not only do increase. My love it increased my capacity for love. That's a great way of putting it, and I would I would agree. One hundred percent increases your capacity, you become an I at least me I became a nicer person. I've seen it not work to I've seen people that just rejected. I've seen men and women that just don't want to be. The parents. Yeah, I've seen women move away from their kids. They don't want to take care of their kids. I've seen men abandon their families. They just don't want to do it. It's crazy in the I don't know if it's a mental health issue, or if it just some people just can't take like this like attitudes. And this is not just about raising children's about pretty much anything difficult in life. There's some people that have a very low quit point very low. They just quit everything they quit. It gets tough quit quit. There's a lot of people that just quit. And when you have a little like say, if you have a little THEO in front of you, and you think about your life, and your childhood, and like how important it is for you to to raise this little person and give him love and teach them about life and protect them from safe and give him good lessons in life. Yeah. Just changes. Everything changes everything. Changes everything. But it also is very very well Ming it's over well people get serious when they have kids. They start thinking about the responsibility in the weight of it all or they don't some people. Just fucking take pills land the couch. Let their kids suck fucking carpet glass and fucking stick forks into the wall sockets and play with knives. People just don't some people don't give a fuck. People are dumb. That's a that's a thing to man. I, you know, people don't want to say this. But there's folks out there that just aren't equipped for life. I I really believe that. I think d- come the dumb, brother. That's what I'm saying. Take the semen out of him. You know, what I'm saying like at a certain point. But here's the problem. You're dumb compared to physicist so whose the whose to judge and who's to say that this person really stupid could never brilliant child. That happens to men lotta times. Brilliant people come out of need adversity, man. Who knows what they need? But it's like it's not our job to. Side who's stupid and who's not because it gets slippery. Yeah. You you could get boxing that stupid corner in a different metric if you're hanging around with a bunch of people from Stanford in on their looking steel Vons neighborhood, and they know there's ten people in the neighborhood, but only nine survive resources for nine to get rid of me. Probably depends on how good you are digging ditches. Could be better than them at that though. So suddenly have different skill. I don't know. It's a thought about having kids. Yeah. I think about it a lot more like as I get a little bit older. I just yeah. The thing for me is just like about being brave. I think and just being willing to have my life. Just be totally different. And be okay with that. And just being like willing to know that I will be okay. In that space. You know, I think it's it's like, I just. It's like I'm just starting to manage the space that I'm in like as a regular person. And then to get to that point where now it's like flock another ball, you have two balls in the air, you know, wife and a kid or yen. Then what we're talking about earlier, look sometimes people fuck people that they don't really like to hang out with. Yeah. I'm not doing that anymore. Man. That's where it gets slippery. Because sometimes that sex is fun, man. I was just talking to a buddy of mine about this. He's got a gal he's a single guy, and he's got a galaxy FOX every now and again, they get together. And they both kind of know what it is. Yeah, they get together. And they want one out. And then they see that's it and his his take on. It is interesting. He's like, yeah. And some people you just don't want to see him that often. Like, that's okay. That's okay. But the problem is is not always mutual or sometimes the guy wants to the girl more than she wants to see him or vice versa. And then it becomes some weird thing. One person starts talking the other person's Facebook, and yeah, you know, people. Getting weird with people, you know, like that's actually an addiction to people get addicted to each other just as much as they get addicted to pornography just as much as they get addicted to wash their hands or anything else people. Absolutely get addicted to certain. Oh, yeah. And when that person doesn't want sex with you anymore, like it's like, they're taking away your drugs, you know, and really dumb men in those cases get very dangerous because does. Yeah. They they start thinking this person's done something to them because they don't want to be with them anymore and really dumb manner dangerous right there. That's where you know. You you you hear about women getting stalked by their Xs and murdered. And that's where that should come hate. That really dumb men who are angry now that the person that they loved doesn't want to be around them anymore. Yeah. And they can't look at themselves and they're probably mentally ill. They might be on medication who the fuck knows what trifecta or what conglomeration of factors making them be that piece of shit. But yeah, they just feel. Yeah. Won't you via p may get film? They feel rejected. And then you just wanna. Yeah. You don't know what to do? Sometimes you get addicted to somebody else's love or lost or sex all those things. Yeah. Women to men. To I was talking to a gal who was going through this with another gal couple of lesbians capitalist beans field talking about voi- less. One lesbian was mean to the other lesbian. Apparently. I was delivering Garnett. Or you know, what I'm saying boy domestic abuse. There was some article about domestic abuse of growing communities. Yeah. Yeah. It's disturbing. It's dark arts man, and those women are and some of those women are tough, you think tough as nails would you find a lesbian for an undisclosed amount of money. Yeah. Really, you don't even have to hear the the number. What is disclosed? Do. I get to hear it or. Don't get to know until it's over. You just read by women. No, I'm not cannot train. I I wouldn't like Amanda newness. I wouldn't let you know. It has to be a woman at least I've seen a couple of pitchers on them. You know, like at least want to be able to make sure you I've seen like a couple of images of them, or at least be able to scroll through their instinct, and she'd have video of that grown man who punched out eleven year old girl in the face of the mall. She makes me mad is so crazy. There's a bunch of kids apparently that were involved in some sort of a scuffle. This guy comes over to break it up his yelling at them breaking up one kid pushes him. And then he says something and then pushes the girl she goes flying. She's a little tiny person. He's a big, dude. She comes at him with her dukes up, and he just fucking way laser I didn't see hits her with a straight left right in the mug. And he's a big grown, man. Like, a he looks like a big, man. Who knows how to throw a punch? I'm not gonna play the video. You wanna find it? Go find out what I wanna see it fucking disturbing to things should tell you one. That guy definitely shouldn't have done that. But to she shouldn't have fucking run at that. Big giant man with her dukes up. Yeah. God. I know she's eleven I get it. She didn't know she's a kid and sat down teach kids kids are hardy some eleven year olds are are like what if you get like, I knew at twelve year old. That's no, no. She's this big. Oh, she's little she's tiny. She's like nipple high on him. Oh, KO, sir. You want to see it? No, you do you do want to draw for me on a napkin. I don't wanna see it. Yeah. Those are the old days, man. We guy over they had a guy who chiseled some tits in. Mina pint, you may be a Birch or something and can we go out there and you're off on this off? Off at the base of the tree. I think us like a step stool or something or a barrel. That's when you found all the magazines in the woods, we used to have that. But sometimes you go out on the tree and somebody will be using the tree. Like fuck. I gotta walk back. That's. Well, it's one hundred percent real you making this up. You have photographs this tree. No, why not do you know where it is. Could you take us back with a film crew? Get back there. I think you back up at its devolve now though. Sri live, go back there and touch the thing. And all of a sudden, you can't find your way back where the fuck are. We we've gone, sir. Like turns out that the tree got tired of people jerk off on it. So it evolves. Some sort of a neuro toxic chemical that when you touched it. It got in your bloodstream it distorted your perception of distance and time. I'm gonna go skill. But what if you would've come could've would've seen could defy gravity? What do you think about that? Don't. But you know, what I do think? Imagine if it wasn't. If come didn't just get humans pregnant. Yeah. That's what I think of. Frogs to chickens, a give everywhere you went you found. God is dude fucked attornal, you funk turtle person. I got you can't think about that. Man. You magin if anything could get anything pregnant new combination was born turtle people to that's what's next Koi? People some do fucked Koi. Yeah. Boston's Koi palm not that imagine you're out there throwing bread on your Koi. Hey, it has legs. What the fuck, man. Somebody fucked twenty. People come up on the shore. It's got a sign for you. People. See people see you at the pet store shopping and the like, whoa. This guy's shady's mashing. If are refunded and came out, and we knew it because Ariz knows. Yeah. So it's like always knows on a Koi fish with legs comes out. And you're like Ari would would you. Here. On your business. I'm going to Bali Q magin. Yeah. I'm gonna go. You'll find why my turtle babies and the other side of the world. But if you had to make love to an animal, what would it be? If you think you had to go in something I could brag about. Yeah. I'm not fucking anything. Sedentary? I'm not forget anything. That's like a basic something ends up in the poultry section or anything like that. No be have to be a female. What if you had gay sex with an animal, which animal would it be? That's not gated fucking animal, bro. It's not. I don't think that applies. Do your fucking an animal that you more both if it's a male gorilla. I think it's both dude. Hey, NBC out. Nobody's going to be like, oh, man. When you they would let you off the means they're gonna go not only did he fuck chip he fucked male and everybody would be like Jesus THEO. You would never buy a beer again. You want to break the internet. You put a fucking video me sneaking up on a cheetah and fucking it. Doubtful wrapping a noose around its neck. And you're banging it while it's clawing on you. It's trying to get away. And you nut. I'm talking about putting on Eddie Laverdure, some Gerald avert and playing some sweet music into good. How you plan on holding it in place while it's all happening. I think if you're good enough in gentle enough, it'll stay. Wow. You don't think? So think about it you for tell magin it though, I love to look at the world to your. Thank you right to the hospital. Whatever medication. We're on. We've got to change it. We got to fix this pro you should be yourself. Then wrote. Your extraterrestrial. As the most smiled. I'll though so good. We always have a good time, bro. That's funny. You working tonight? You do in Tripoli shows. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. That's fine. It was a good times. Do what a fun job man, just realizing it this year. That's what I was saying like your idea of like looking back on your youth. Are you crazy? We're alive we're alive doing the most fun job. You could have. Yeah. What would we change that? You only get busy. I want to like get busy living this year and just try more things. And just enjoy my time that I'm Diane that I am alive. That's what's up. I really do. The whole thing about life is all that. I wish I was doing this. I wish I was doing that is only good if you're working towards something. But I wish I was young again. Let that go. That is not happening. Yeah. I wish I was eight foot tall. That's not happening. I wish I could fly not app. I wish I could breathe underwater. Like man, it's not happening. I could see paying to get gills installed though. I could see you. Coming up one day Vig. Come up with some gene editing, some gills man, fuck scuba dive. Joe take you to the side and shows his gills. I don't like snorkeling, bro. You get. I snorkeled a little bit. When I was in Hawaii. It's fun. Yeah. Man. It's wild. You're out there looking down. You watched all these fish swimming around like that we wouldn't near this coral reef. It's crazy. It's just this world down there to push and how easy it was a free two blackouts like sharks or something. Just not the blue not easy. You know? No, this real it. You're always thinking like what if one of those mother fuckers is here, and you look like a dull like a damn delectable event too short. Definitely a mouthful, but yeah, I mean, you know, what I'm saying if you if ios out there that's a that's a real snack. How many famous people have been killed by sharks? Happen. That'd be crazy like LL cool J cut kill by shark and malleable you'd like what the fuck. He no he like how was that? Real. How could it happen? Right. What if OJ Simpson gut Jack by a shark Q mansion, how many ha-has would break out across the country. Ha if you could see OJ Simpson infl-, it would have to be Florida. He'd be enforced in Florida a lot. Of course, those white trash girl off his waving waving to the beach, and you see the Finn like fifteen feet away from him if you'd go under and then burnt the yank-. The blood and the body like no way. Dude. I bet OJ Simpson and Dennis Robin fucked a lot of the same chicks, bro. When you think about that with what if the I don't think OJ Simpson's allowed to leave the country, right? Saying would've Kim Jon starts partying with. Oh. John. Good. Like, I don't care. I don't care what he did to juices loose. A buddy doing cocaine with OJ Simpson. One time in new and in Miami. How long this is like fifteen years ago post murder, then after the murder and the guy goes, hey, does anybody have a car key and the knees hits OJ's? Hey, give a car Kierra knife. That's what he asked him for to do the cocaine off of. Oh, like this goes, we will go to book good knife, Letsie laughing. Yeah. Oh, my that's pretty funny. I think it's funny. I mean. If you didn't get in trouble for it. Even if you did it, I think having a sense of humor about is still important the way he reacted every step of the way. Did not seem like a guy was being accused of something. He didn't do every step every step of the ways. I wouldn't do. Yeah. I couldn't do hard. Don't even that is not what you'd say. If your wife got killed row. You would not be thinking like that. You'd be heartbreak in the fuck out. You should watch this Whitney Nolte. Now. It's so Sasha baron Cohen, the very very end of the show is almost like a bonus seen. Oh, I didn't know he got this deep with the outfit who's the gal? It's just it's part of this is like cell. She's a girl it's supposed to be with him. He's like this extravagant. Millionaire billionaire type character. Oh, and he's got OJ. I need to see this show period. I think he spent like three or four hours with them. He said did you hear that? They might have uncovered a pedal ring, he might have uncovered a pedal ring when he was doing this OJ did know Sasha baron Cohen a while. Oh, yeah. Did you see I read a headline that says find what the exact specifics of it were like they decided not to air. But it's like, what do you know? What when you said that about J me think I met Buzz Aldrin from the moon. Yes. And he and when I met him. It didn't seem like he'd been to the moon. Saying that Cohen. Yeah. Hold on a second sent cut who is America interview to FBI over fears of Las Vegas pedophile around. Whoa. Said the goats up said the interview led him to believe there could be a pedophile ring in Las Vegas. Holy shit. Could you imagine if a pedophile ring in Las Vegas was exposed by Sasha baron Cohen in a comedy movie? And they find out it's real I wonder if this is all it's a setup for some other type of film, but let's look at it objective. Okay. Okay. There has to have been pedophile rings in the past undeniable bright, I would think if you go back you go back to like the fifties or the forties of thirties. There has to be something. Like that way. Easy. Yeah. They take orphans, and they molest them all that Sandusky type shit that has been going on. Yeah. So how often has it been going on? And what happens now to the same type of people like if that's no longer available for them. Is there some way they get it? Some super fucking super tightly watched circuit ring of people. Who still engage in this activity and figured out a way to do it? I hope not no to everybody hopes not. But the idea that it's impossible the idea that it's impossible is unlikely. Yeah, there's probably a market for it. Sadly as well. You think about it all the time when you think about other countries, right? Yeah. They're doing it. They are for sure. Most of our guys it seems fly over these other countries and be dirty over there. Like going over there. And there's a ring a pedophile ring. That's scary. Did who wants to fuck some kid? That's crazy. They think it's mostly people who have been abused like that themselves. Yeah. Mostly at that's one of the things that Kevin Spacey's brothers said about Kevin is that Kevin is basically like their dad and their their dad sexually abused them. And now Kevin is acting that out. And there was a an interview his dad his brother rather gives you Kevin Spacey's brother and everybody looks like Rod Stewart on the strongest acid available who he's crazy. Lookin'. This weird looking guy with wacky hair, and he wears funky glasses and weird closed. Donnie, what's his name? I don't know what his name is. But he looks like he's wearing a costume Donnie Spacey. That's not is it. No. But here took a look at them. Look at this. That's that's his brother. It looks like nice got seem in English scientist and Rod Stewart. I can't believe Kevin when they got banged by the dead. I think they both did I think you saying they both did. I can't believe said as messed up. Yeah. Say it, man. They said their dad was a monster. Yeah. Yeah. Look at his dad like look look at his brother how he dresses up that. Crazy. Rod Stewart outfit. Yeah. I bet like one chick or one dude fucked him because thought it was Rod Stewart, and it's like we're just going to ride this boat running Iraq. Right. Stuart this is outfit. That is. Crazy outfit. That is a crazy crazy outfit. He's got rings on every finger. He's got a wall chain across his pecker. Wow. Those Dicks keeping time rather you look at that shirt at fluffy shirt with the crazy ass neck accoutrements. Yeah. If you're not trying to get fucked by somebody you shouldn't wear all this. And but but think about how much effort it took to do all this now, go up to his teeth, son. Yeah. Some of that mug at Scotland bro clean that shit up. Is he from Scotland it's Kevin Spacey from Scotland I think they're from Britain. I think from America, really. Yeah. We're whereas Kevin Spacey more fuck of, you know, you're googling it. Well, you know, you're right. Google in front of you. But no doubt. What about this? Do you think he would have been as talented even have this affliction per se? This is where he's from orange features. You see? There you go. Perfect dump? And one of his talented men of our time people in New Jersey Fuk you, bro. Hey, I was born there. He is very talented. He's also very crazy. And I think in his day, you could get away with a lot. If you had a movie star. I think you know, they just they ran those sets like crazy. We'll have that are Kelly thing. Now, I mean that guy is whole life. He got to do whatever he wanted. It seem like that's a different animal right because he's a musician. But yeah, it seems like he's the underage the underage thing. With him is like a Leah married. Leah underage sex with underage, and it was I remember we just grew up listening to his music. It was always girls are coming out about him doing to them when they're ever a lot of people knew thirteen fourteen or saying fifteen, but I can't believe more people. There was a video of it. You know? That was complicit in that. It was unbelievable. What about the people that? Like, here's what's crazy. The video is out of him peeing on people. And then years later, people are still making music with them. Wow. That's crazy at crazy. Yeah. That's crazy. When you find out how many people were who was it. Was it the breakfast club? What show was it that they they started reading off a list of all the people that worked with our Kelly post video. So the video was out lady Gaga all these people. And he like a giant number of people. Do you think we'll ever be able to eradicate the the fact that people do that to like like the pedophile are had that vibe for them for the to sexual sexualize children or young people? Hopefully. Scientists will figure out a way to isolate that part of human thinking some day like, hopefully, they'll be something researchers doctors scientists psychologist whoever it is figure out a way to stop that. But in the meantime, what had has gotten his way more difficult for them to get away with it. Right. Right. And it is going to get more difficult. Still. I think people are going to be connected. I mean, we're connected right now with cell phones. Like, this is weird connection is you know, Adam green tree who was here yesterday. What we were talking about Toyota tundras, he said after we were talking about it. And he said all of his ads on his phone like when he would look at a website. It would all be Toyota ads in a way. It's like, they're listening. Yeah. There listening to his phone like the word Toyota tundra came up over and over and over again, insert searches Toyota, trucks, because. Toyota, trucks, Toyota, trucks, I'm gonna say that. Drug Toyota, Tacoma, say it over and over again. Yeah. But whatever the fuck process of. I mean, I don't know if he actually accidentally googled Toyota trucks that day too. Yeah. But they found out he's he's there. My point is like saying something in a conversation, and it's being connected to these internet searches like these little things are starting to happen. And it's going to get more and more prevalent. It's over for us. We're going to be like way more connected now than we. We're going to way more connected rather in ten years than we are. Now buck man, we've got to figure out what would that be like because no one saw this coming. No, one saw us being disconnected. So what the fuck is it going to be like if we're connected much much more than that in the future. What's that gonna be? It's gonna be it's gonna be something unimaginable. Because it's this was unimaginable. Right. So that's what I'm thinking. It's going to be some wrecks plane that we're going to get to there has to be some next level. Of intuition, maybe that comes into it or. I when I was really high thought this up. Yeah. My really high thought was you know, how kids learn things really easily there? They learn things ways. They can learn a language really easy. They're going if very soon in the future, a universal language is developed it coincides with artificial artificial intelligence technology virtual reality in my mentored, an augmented reality. And so this universal language allows people of all languages, they can learn it, and they can learn it, and this was coming off with something that Jamie said once we're talking about emojis being almost like hieroglyphs like, wow, that seems so weird because they seem so cute and corny, but someone could send you a whole series of them like eggplant water smiley face high five, and and it's like, oh someone wants a fuck. I guess might write me time to me a picture could sell Jackson. Well, while I was thinking that. I was like, okay. Well, what would stop once they develop augmented reality or artif- or virtual reality in some sort of a easily digestible form, whatever it is. Whether it's a chip that you have in your body that send signals directly to your brain lousy to communicate with each other. If we developed a language, and we can send and receive images in a way that maybe even more effective than the language that we assume that English is the best way to talk because we only know how to talk English, right? Maybe if we could speak Chinese we could express ourselves clear, maybe we speak Turkish or Arabic. Maybe there's a better one. I don't know. I only one language, but what if? Sound languages are far inferior to visually. And what if these visual languages allow people that even can't even see to see because they send it directly into their mind. They see these things there is closed. I don't even using her eyeballs and everybody can communicate on an even plane. So there's no language barriers. And when I was thinking this I was like, well, that's doesn't possible. No. It's not impossible because there's more than one hundred languages. I mean, how many languages are there? If you had to guess, I would bet there's probably hundred maybe fifteen. Yeah. I bet you're right. I'll say one hundred thirty let's go crazy. I'll see one hundred thirty locations. It's probably a thousand who the fuck knows language. Bob one language. Bob more more than thousand. Okay. I'm gonna go them all like to have a separate guests. I wanted to go with eighteen hundred I would like to go with. One thousand sixty. The says there are roughly this is number of spoken languages in the world today sixty five hundred. What wear whom ups you about two thousand of those have less fewer than one thousand speakers. So even if we count those off it's still for over four thousand well, you know, those people in that sentinel north sentinel island, I think they have a dead language. There's only thirty really where that guy got killed. There's only thirty nine of them four thousand to even if you take hundred right? If you take those off the one that he said that only less than a hundred people are, but they're using it. Right. Good point. Here's the thing. That's really crazy. The p- the indigenous people Australia, my friend, Adam green tree who's here yesterday. He he works with a lot of these people. He is a mining company in one of his a bunch of the people that work with wood explained him, these different languages that. They're not written down, and you and your mob like they would call the aborigines call themselves. Like, it's it's not like a clan, it's called the mob their term for it would have a totally. Language and someone who lives just a few miles away. So there'd be a different mob those few miles away. Totally different language. You can't understand what the fuck. They're saying. They don't know what the fuck you're saying. Then there's another one over here. And there's never no wonder one, Mike. How many do you think there is like, oh, it's probably hundreds hundreds hundreds of different languages. Nobody knows what the fuck anybody saying. It's almost like they don't want the other one to know because it's like they'll get their secrets. Maybe how many do you think? There's a another report that says there's this number of languages that are spoken in US homes. As of this says, a twenty fifteen okay, smaller number but three hundred fifty. Wow. This is at least through if you'd asked me before this conversation. I was thirteen. Yeah. Me too. So I was gonna guess actually I was gonna guess eleven fuck. That's a lot of languages. That's so crazy. So we're at fucked. We're okay. That makes my point. I think the next stage is a universal language. Yeah. Universal language would. Think about the aborigines there. That's how fucked up situation and be in. Nobody knows the fuck anybody saying, and none of those things written down. So you have to be in that clan understand that language or that mob, and then they die off. And. Yeah. Yeah. They're thinking small small ball. Well, they didn't think it's not planned out. Well, but we are connected everyone's interconnected, and I think through a universal language it's entirely possible that we could reshape civilization. Yeah. Through a universal language that every kid picks up in school. You teach them Bing Bong, right? Upside a English or Chinese or anything else, but Bing Bong is the the internet land route and this internet language that everybody understands everybody just starts communicating through Bing Bong, and nobody. Yeah. Nobody's using regular language anymore. You just talked like when you're in bed. You talk. Yeah. Bitch. Remember, dirty, talk English. Doc by our franchisees one hundred and eighty five setter spoken, just in Los Angeles. Let's lot. But that makes sense if there's three hundred in the country. I would think it would be here. I'm more shocked at all money is pretty multicultural era. There's a group in twenty five hundred people or so that speak Dutch at home and riverside. Yeah. That makes sense. But only Dutch well, not only, but that mostly maybe it's riverside Dutcher. So era dynamic the move good. No you ever seen. A dutch. There really are dynamic there. The what what do you do in your hand lean face lean headed tell the not four inches cheek-to-cheek? Big people dude, do how big are the Dutch ho they're very tall. But they're very dynamic. Very aero dynamic the downhill people, they call it can do look at pull up a duck. Okay. Pull up or Nesta who's or Nesto who's getting gander at this? Celebrating Dutch kickboxer Mr. perfect. I'm bet you it's hard to kick him in the sides of his head because he was less than others, Scott, Dan mcdonagh's. Okay. That's him later in his career to if you get earlier in his crews more jacked get early in his career right there. Bam take that picture right there. No, no, the one above it. We cursor was to write to right to the left of that one. Or right. I'm sorry of that photo. You just pulled up the right of the photo. You just pulled up that one right there. Bam. That's what he looks like when he was in his prime, can we let's get face Dutch that guys in advance. I feel like advanced Dutch look at him. Yeah. That guys. Okay. How about rob Cayman? Our obe- K A M E N or an rather. Well, graves kick, boxers of all time. And there we go air dynamic. Yeah. Come narrows head is put us looking at you sideways. What about basic Dutch, gut does not look like a guy with a narrow head, bro? Yes. It doesn't get that mind. On their head was next to his head. You he his head with eclipse your head. No, yes. It would. It'd be nothing behind you. Look a long that hit is narrow his head gone from you. I wouldn't even know you're that deals that you back there. I'd see the bottom. Vacuum jerking off of on non dominant, brother. It doesn't count. Did you think it's better be crazy in this? I know I'm thinking about this. But to watch people from different. Ethnicities jerk off, you know, we're back to this again. He's, but you know, what I'm saying because everybody probably watch little point. Oh, man. I'm not what your from memory now. Yonder? Yonder from memory. Now. Do you find that your fantasies become more elaborate one hundred percent or more excited up to set it up in your head? Oh, no, how many how many days a week. He'd beaten it. More than four and you got a pro no two days a week. And I'm disappointed at that. I'm just trying to turn over a new leaf. I wanna not jerk off. Yeah. To be confused. I think that's that's look there's a re-. There's a if you just look at sexual desire and lust. Yeah. There's a reason why you become more and more desperate as time goes on. It's like, you're. You're sites are set too high or you're not being ambitious enough. You gotta spread you seed. If you think about how ridiculous it is people didn't know that having sex with people has consequences. And and by that I mean, you can get pregnant you can get disease is if there was no, and this culture, limitations people frown upon it. But if there's none of those imagine how much people would be fucking. Oh, you would be insane. Yeah. The if there was no such thing as masturbate could forget a gas station. Peewee fucking. Yeah. If there was no if masturbation wasn't possible. First of all, you know, what would happen? What women would rule everything one hundred percent? But to have so much e- built up in them. Nope. Nope. There'd be bitches. They'd be given in every chance because the women would've unit. It'd be worth so much more Australia because women would be able to decide whether or not you came. This is the only way those the. The only way if women were the rulers whether or not you came. There was no way to come. Without them MacArthur would dominate we're fucked it, I know that the next law if they're really smart that's how they would take over. Chop our arms off. You telling me though, you wouldn't watch like a little like Chinese guy jerk off thirty feet away back to this again. No, but just train accidents. I don't want them to happen. Jamie pulls up a video of a train act. God you've got to see this shit's. Okay. Go ahead and watch it. Oh, I don't watch that kind of stuff. But tell me about this. How close do you get like there's a Chinese guy jerking off in a park? Okay. And he's Ma he's depends on who. I am. He's candies. He's cantonese. My me right now. You're you right now, you're jogging right jogging is beaten off depends on how close he is to stop to tie your shoe. Right. And you see them in the park. You know, like, oh that guy's definitely beaten off. And you're about two hundred yards away. I probably would stay there. How close would you walk two? When someone's jerking off in public. Obligation do one or two things you have an obligate. It depends on what he's doing. Is. He looking at you and jerking off. He's looking at you and Juergen off if he's doing it out in the open. He might be sick. But he turned enough toward you that you're kind of invited. No. No, no. Yeah. You're right. If you're in the park, this is just. I mean being one hundred percents. Here's yeah. If I'm running in the park. Okay. See, you know, five yards over to the side right next to a tree. There's a guy beaten off. Okay. I'm going to stop running. And I'm gonna look at him. And I'm gonna look at all the people around him, and I'm going to keep an eye on him. And I'm probably either gonna call the cops or I'm definitely gonna stand. There was would have some person is jogging. And he just decides this is the time to jump on this person. Yeah. What are some kid is walking by and he snatches that kid drags him in the bushes. This guy is so crazies beaten off in public, and he's looking at you. Yes. True. I I don't think I would go over and be violent with them. But I would definitely keep an eye on them. I'm not gonna let what if he's a fucking sexual predator. And he's looking to do something to someone and you could be like Peter Parker in Spiderman save your ankle. Yeah. Right. You know? That's what made Peter Parker becomes Spiderman. He saves his uncle had the power, and he didn't save his uncle on a robber ran past him. He didn't feel to do anything about it. And the robber got into the elevator. And he killed his uncle. I didn't even know that. Yeah. That's just or and it wasn't an elevator. I forget what the actual story was. But the Robert did something to his uncle and killed them. As was everything uncle took care of him. So then he decided he could never let evil people do anything bad again. And it became Spiderman like superhero, I think you have an obligation, especially if you're if you're a man 'specially. Yeah. If I was a small woman, and I was in that same situation. I would say call the cops immediately. You know, don't try to be a hero. Get the fuck away from that guy. But call the cops mealy, but I'm pretty sure most dudes that are beaten off in the forest like that they're not looking for me. Right. They're looking for a woman or a child. Yeah. That's true. They're probably not looking to meet another another, dude. If I saw another dude at grab another dude for sure to help me like, let's get this, dude. I Bill K. Hey, hey, man. This fucking guys is beaten up training. In most men would be like, oh Jesus. What do we do? We'll call the cops. Keep an eye on them. I'm gonna call the cops. Don't let them get away. Call somebody runs by tell them to a. Yeah. That's a seat. When someone's really crazy. What's the ones really crazy? Like that kinda crazy like some guy. Data arrested for trying to duck the kid trying to drag kid in his house and he had horns on his head. Yeah. He's got horns he's a sexual predator. And he's got those those implants in his head were looks like some. Demon is his ears. Hang down to like, it's fuck and Chan fucking idiot. Great that guys out there. It's a real guy. Just got caught. Right. So if you run into that sort of a situation you have to as a person you can't just run away. I feel you go to stand. You got to stand around and make this, you know, make people aware, right? Say this guys come over trying to come over here. This guy's jerking off or. Yeah. Yeah. I think getting somebody else to help. But there's less of that than there's ever been before. But this was going to be some of it. So if you're talking about with pedophile like how do you stop that forever? How does that possible? Stop that forever. And we had a dude in school when I was growing at this guy big Richard Reid, and he ended up meaning big dick does what you call them. Now. This will we didn't know this was before we were old enough to know that dick and richer with the same in our dick. How about this house, Jack, John? How is short for John Jack. Is it really didn't even know that JFK John F Kennedy, John Kennedy, Jack Kennedy? Oh, wow. But I knew Jack Kennedy was the fuck is that. Yeah. There's some other weird ones. Right. And we're never going to get a universal language. I can't even get that. Right. From Irish it's how you say. Jack in Irish look this up. Really? Yeah. John since their Irish that makes it a lot more sense. John. I believe I guess if you said it fast and from far away 'cause sound like Jack jump. Yeah. Short for Barbara is Babs. Yeah. I know a Babs actually is that. Bab? That's weird short for Barbara. Barb is a rough name though. I think like a hook. Yeah. Like in who wanted to fuck baller Barton's cute? Barbies key. Sal is like a man's name tour with us a short for this other weird ones with men. I know that some other weird ones that I forget big, Sal. I know a lesbian named big sale. Whoa. What's a real name Sally model now? So I used to be called, Sal. But one time she bought a man's bathing suit to go swimming with us, and I thought that was pretty impressive. No top cops, no tub. Daddy, go. She's fucking so big. And it's using the shallow into daddy. You know? And that's a that's a healthy gal. But yeah, I think if somebody I was in Germany one time I was on a bike ride, and they had a man swinging his dick in a big circle. And I thought that was but it was a nudist area of apart. Well, if you got a nudist area, that's what you're getting counter. Yeah. People swing index. Yeah. I guess I was kind of a just sped off. But you know, I think about it. Sometimes. About big Sal nervous about that guy in the park on what he was doing. Why he was doing that? You know, what I used to think I used to think oh look at that piece of shit. Now. I think oh that was a baby right? It was a baby that neigh became this helicopter dick weirdo. What standing on the street pointing to his hog spinning around with spending like that. It's fucking weird. Crazy. It's fucking weird. It's weird that there are people that do that. And how much of that is because of repression like that would if you went to the most sexually liberated country, they have more or less perversion, that's the question. Right. And how much of it is imported like if you went to the most sexually liberated place like. And how many of the people that come in or people from out of town that are we're that one freaky shit, and then it becomes an economy. Yeah. And how many people just leave them to their own? Just be chill because we're pretty caged up. They say here in America. It's pretty, you know, everything's kind of taboo, and you can't see nipples and stuff on television. And that's weird. But a wonder if that's also why we get so much done. Yeah. You know, like, do we? I mean, maybe it's just maybe it's my perception that we get more done than other that were more productive. I mean, it's I I think we focus on it a lot. Yeah. A lot of things have definitely come from here. But I think that's changing right? Yeah. But I think pedophile is going out of style too. I think there was a time where more people got away with it easier. That's for sure. Yeah. It's hard to get away with it. But the that fucking that whatever that is that makes a person do that just doesn't seem like we've radicalized that. It must be a loose wire. In imagine that the thing about that is if they could one day figure out a way to get certain traits and breed them out of people or engineer them out of people like we're fucked in. Well, what what what would you leave in like, what would you leave in emotional outbursts? Would you leave in the ability to have an emotional outburst? Like what the fuck? Yeah. Would leave that? Would you leave that in as fun? Yeah. It's fun for me. But maybe you, and I wouldn't be the ones who decide we leave sneezing in. No, I'm a behavior male, emotional outbursts. Okay. Like fucking count. Yeah. You fucking asshole dot kind of shit that kinda shit. Yes. I would leave that in. I would leave that into not a lot of it though. Turn it down a little. I wouldn't fuck with it. I don't think it's our job to fuck with it. Okay. 'cause you need that. If a war breaks out, right? Yeah. You can't have these guys like gonna need that going to war. Yeah. You're gonna need that energy. You need. That whole like male eruption fuck and crazed aggression that you don't like well when invading village is headed over the top of the hill, you want that in a dude with an axe. Yeah. You want that you want that to be available? Yeah. Agree, unless we get to a point where we don't have any war anywhere ever again until then like, but what have we engineered app, but the Russians say they're going to. But they don't they don't they would do that. Probably. We would do that. Also, we would definitely do. So fucking sneaky. Do you think that we will have another war? I hope not. But that's always the fear. Right. Mean we're in the middle of two right now. Know, I think it could be you could ever be another state war in America of the civil war states will some are worried about that. Some people are able to work government, some people want state run government. Well, some people were worried about that as hate for the Republicans and hate for Trump in particular ramps up and that they're really worried that they'll be some sort of a violent outbreak between the right and the left that this could actually really happen. Man. It's not impossible. It's not impossible that at least battles could break out. Because people are fucking polarized, man. Yeah. Yeah. But I think what's interesting to me is that more and more people. It seems like at least from my perspective on the right are now coming out against Trump. It seems more common more common, especially with this government shutdown people like what the fuck, you know, there's so many videos of people going to what are you talking about what this wall like we need money like people Scott people a lot of our living. Check to check. Yeah. You're shutting down there is the only way you can negotiate this wall. Does the only way you can fund this wall? This is crazy. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, as I don't know. I mean, people always say the government sucks fucking shut it down. And then it shuts down everybody gets mad. You know it. It's makes an argument that the government should be doing less things. This is the real argument. The argument is some of those things that the government does why does the government have to do it. Why can't it be privatized? Why? Why can't it become a business? It would probably run better. If some of those things were not run by the government, like airport security or like road maintenance or like a lot of other things. Yeah. But don't have the government. Do it have private contractors? Do it. Some real can't have you strong standards and strong competition and Johnstone actually has a video about it. Right now. It's on his Twitter page. It's a long video, but explaining how one of the things people are realizing from this government shutdown is that the government does a lot of things that they don't have to do. Yeah. It would be probably better for everybody. If some of these things were streamlined. Some of these things were done by the private sector. I don't think that's a bad idea. Yeah. I think there's a lot of things that could be done better. If there was competition as soon as the government control certain businesses mean, maybe they do it. Really? Well, maybe they don't, you know, I think the I think there are certain things that we're socialism works. Really? Well, like, here's one fire department fucking you got to pay for the fire department. Everybody wants to fund the fire department. Don't you you cut the fire budget, man. What if my grand no fire a house? Yeah. We wants fire, man. We're gonna pay for the fire department pay for that shit pay for the police yet pay. Everybody says pay you shouldn't be rich people only get cops poor people. Don't get cops. That's crazy. Everyone would say that's crazy. Right. Well, why is that not the case with education to then? Well, right. Don't you want people to learn things like when did education become such a big business? Why is that a business? It should be our goal as patriots right to make less losers. More happy successful people more aware people more. Educated people, you know, but instead it's like subsidized by the government and that makes even weirder. And then you have student loans. You can't escape you a lot of that is pretty bizarre. It's bizarre. Fuck it should be free. But there's also like there's another like some people don't want to do anything. They does true wanna be alive, and they just they just they don't want to contribute and really have any sort of life, and they no desire for that. And there's generation generation generation of them debt is true. But what if you ever do you ever look at universal basic income too weird idea, I flatly rejected it when I first heard we have it. No. We don't have tried it out in a couple of places, but don't think it's really worked out that. Well, but the idea behind it. I'm having a guy who comes on soon. His name's Andrew Yang proponent of universal basic income. And the ideas you give people x amount of dollars per month. Whether it's a thousand dollars per month and everybody gets it no matter what. And. By doing that, you take care of all of the burden of survival. Like, we take care of everyone in the civilization, everyone everyone gets shelter. So that eliminates a lot of crime and a lot of strife just right away. Right. That where's all that money? Come from. There's a thousand dollars a month three hundred eight million is that what it was. Plus, you know, that was two thousand ten it's probably more. Now, let's let's say three twenty that is a lot of money three hundred twenty million thousand. So that's three hundred twenty billion Jeep is that what it is. I have no clue three hundred twenty billion a month. Wouldn't that would be the if you gave a thousand people a million dollars, isn't that what it would be a thousand million is a billion, right? Just to in the calculator, bro. Don't do you head. Thousand million. Yeah. So that's right. So must be so that that's so much money so three. So the the wall Kim talking about building the wall isn't he asking for five billion yet want five Bill? Okay. It's not that much. I don't think. Well, that's to build a wall. Once this is every month, you would need all those billions. That's all lot of can Chadha an SME's. Everybody would have their basic needs met. Yes. Everybody get a thousand bucks where that money comes from. This is what I need to talk. This guy about obviously, I'm not a mathematician or any sort of an economist of any idea. What they've how they feel like they can do to three thousand got that three thousand in the country. Jesus Jeep that's a lot less a stipend of two fifty a month is that Andrew Young. It's not from him specifically, but it's a different guy from like a guy that was talking bad about it, actually just giving you what people were oh someone talking to you. Yes. Someone talking bad about three thousand a month is a lot. That's crazy. That's almost that's crazy. But yeah, thirty six thousand dollars a year. That's I mean, that'd be nice, right? Then you'd be in the top one percent of the world. Everybody over thirty four thirty four thousand thirty four thousand dollars. I think is one percent of it would cut the nation's poverty rate in half. Wow. But I d- where's the money coming from? And also, do you lose incentive at that point? That's a good question. Is that bad is bad to lose incentive. Yes, why? Because that's what it's like the drive. It's the only reason otherwise you nobody overcomes anything. Nobody chee. There's knows that true is the is the drive does the drive always have to be for survival. Or can the drive be the drive to succeed in better yourself. So say look at it this way, if you have thirty five thousand dollars a year, would you think you'd be cool? He'd be like I don't need to tour. I got thirty five grand coming now. I'd want to work harder. Right. I think a lot of people would want to work harder. Because I think your motivation would be different your motivation would be to do better. Thirty five thousand dollars, but that thirty five thousand dollars would take care of you, look if money was free and Konami didn't make any sense, and you could just fix it. Like that. I would say, yeah. Fix it. Like that. Right. Where the fuck is all that money. Come from. That's a crazy amount of money. Yeah. We couldn't do it. We I mean. No, that means a lot of rich. You would have to give up some of their money. People aren't doing all of that. That would be nine hundred billion dollars. Every month that my right about that three hundred billion now, it's for every adult. It's not to give it to every person. Go. Okay. Every adult have to raise your kids. They get the money. Fuck it to get a car three thousand no bills. That's true. That's true. So how many people were dealing with? How many people are adults? It changes to this is the argument they make that is that you would end some of the subsidies that are already going on like Medicare here d and maybe welfare in some cases because people would have money that they're spending or they're getting now. So that money might be worth a shot. I think it'd be worth a shot. But how long do you try to make you know, because then people are going to be like I needed more time. You know? Right. Well, that would be they wouldn't ever get their shit together. There's some people that will definitely do that. There's some people that will never get their shit together. And I don't believe that this is a simulation. I don't believe that we're in some sort of a video game. But if we're in something that was that you. It was a learning environment. You would want both to have your own opportunities for failure. And to see examples of failure around you. You would wanna see that like I'm not happy that already laying that his noses caved in. And then he's got all these problems with drugs. I'm not happy with that. I love Artie Lang already land to be clean. I think he's hilarious. I think he's a great guy. The one thing that could be good that comes out of that. For anyone other than Ardy Lang and already Lange loved ones and friends. Yeah. His someone that's just looking at him online. And sees what he's done and goes like fuck that. I don't wanna ruin this guy's in and out of court. He's always getting arrested. He keeps pissing hot. They kind of easy. That was reading something today. Well, the thing is that. It's it's it's sad. It's sad and people love the guy, and you see this is dangerous. Drugs are dangerous. Yes. People it hits them this way. And for whatever host of factors already. Got it bad. Right. We love already so someone on the outside seeing that could be like. Wow in that now is a thought in their head. If somebody offers them those same drugs, right? And so I don't need to make my life hit hit rock bottom. I can look at this guy or that guy or maybe someone in the neighborhood or people around you that don't get their shit together. You could see what happens right when they don't chase their dreams follow their ambitions. They don't they don't take the time to let the people around them know that they love them. They don't do those things and you get to see that that's a little bit of your own education to it's not ideal. Right ideal would be everybody is doing great. And we would all have. Big old fucking happy community. But yes, some education comes from that, you get and also, but you start to even specifically with already lined do you ever think that when that sort of becomes such a big part of his life that I like I'll worried that that I wonder it does he is he gonna fault or with drugs and stuff because it keeps his name in people's minds. No, I don't think. So I don't think I wouldn't think people aren't as he was always a successful guy. Anyway, when I met him he was on TV. I met him in nineteen ninety four the same time, I met Cowan I became friends with already we did a scene together where I played a boxer and he was a boxing manager. I know that I don't even know he did that show. Yeah. Man. It's probably online somewhere. It's wow. We look so young. I was like I think I was twenty seven wow. Wow. And he was probably the same age as me or real close as was Cowan calendars just to that's me right there. That is crazy the boxer. Yeah. Did is crazy joke. Get jar. I'll look at the shoulders though. Never got this to a whole Micon. Tro shis. What did you feel like look at your young body? Like that weird is it. Yeah. It's weird. Like a different person. Yet doesn't doesn't feel like it was me. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Well, you you look at yourself, you know, from the past Faulk shoe already, and some even already fucking, handsome, and hair hair, kind of an illusion was it. It was falling out. It was definitely on the way. Did you know, you're gonna lose your hair terrified? Yeah. It's weird seeing my body with no tattoos too. That's interesting. Yeah. That wasn't even like a weightlifting days that was all martial arts days. Dang. A strange I, but yeah, the first time I heard already was just through drugs. So maybe my perception that is that, you know, well, already, you know, he was very successful comedian for sure from the Howard Stern show from doing dirty work that norm Donald movie and a bunch of other things mad TV so many different things that he did. He was always very successful. And very well liked like in the comedy world. If you don't like like, if someone says fuck already land, you'd be like, what's really right fucker. You what you don't like? Artie. That's wrong. He's the nicest guy ever, it's just one of those things, man. You don't want to see it. Go down like that. You don't want to. But you learn from it. Yeah. Other people learn other people do learn from other people learn from all kinds of things that people do wrong. You don't want those things to happen. But men their educational for all of us. We're all in this constant state of evolving. This this culture that we're in right now the civilization is. Rapidly changing everything is shifting moving and growing it's out of control, man. I mean, it really is a lot of elements. Even like, I was listening to when you Bill Burr we're talking last time. He's he's talking about like flying around and stuff like that. And then he was talking about doing a comedy specimen. He's like, I don't even know what to do with it. These days to just do clips to put like things just change so fast, whereas like a year ago or two years ago to been like, oh, this is exactly what you do make a special. It's it's like do I well used to be you didn't have an option. You know, the first guy who actually introduced it as an option was Louis because Louis decided to put a special on his website, and you buy it for like five bucks, which is a really reasonable amount. And it was really good special and it killed he made a shit ton of money. Right. And then people realized that he made a shit ton of money. And then people realize how good he was. And then people realize how famous he really actually was. And then everything started booming and taken off for him. It was already in the process of happening. But it happened even more because he did that then. Netflix came along. Right. That's the ideal. They shook it as nothing better than that. That situation day just set it up. So they put their like we're going to get everybody. We have a fucking trillion dollars. We're going to get everybody. We're going to get all the greats. We're gonna get ship have Chang, Chris rock everybody fill in the blank Sebastian. They're just gonna cry. Bill Burr, they're gonna just crush it. And keep crushing it. And then anything else now like if someone has a special on comedy central. You you go guess Netflix wouldn't hook them up. Yeah. Yeah. Go to comedy central. That's how you look at right in the comedy community. Right. But I think a real player is going to be Amazon because this Amazon show the marvelous MRs Mazel. Yeah. People love it. It is fucking good is in its good. As a comic. I watched. I get nervous. I get anxiety. When she's about to go on stage. I gotta watch it do. It's fucking good. The guy who plays Lenny Bruce kills. It kills. It seems like a less CD less problematic. Lenny, Bruce, but he seems a lot like Lenny Bruce means it's you know, you can only do so much with written in as a he's like a someone who helps the marvelous MRs Moi's Linney CD was Lenny Bruce CD man a little bit. I mean, it's just I just I he doesn't see the this is just the way it's written doesn't see my guy died of a heroin overdose. Right. Yeah. Seems like more together in the TV show. So mostly it seems like in the TV show seems like a victim of the censorship of the circumstances involved in that point in time more like in the future. Like, he went mad. You know, if you ever see any of the one of the things that I noticed when I when I really started getting into stand up I used to start I would watch some of the old stuff and one of the things that I found is that you can I think I bought it as a V H S. I don't think. Was online. It was way before YouTube in the stuff was available online. You could get old performances. I watched Lenny Bruce. Wow, this videotape that I bought it's basically they're filming him going over his court case in front of a group of people. It's really weird because he's not really tone stand up. He just reading off of his court case allows kind of interesting, it's interesting. It's not it's not it's like he's going mad is going crazy because they're trying to bring them in jail. They're finding him and arresting him and they're locking them up in jail and they're ruining his career because he's swearing on stage. And what he's trying to say is like, you know. No, this is I'm trying to point things out that I'm swear if I say something if I say naughty words for reason, it's to express myself. I'm not I'm not just just saying things because there are legal, and I want you to lock me up. He went on trial for that. Oh, yeah. Oh, he went to jail for that. He got arrested many times many times him and George Carlin. The reason why we can do it the way we do it. Now. Has a there's a direct. You could trace the path as a direct path to Lenny, Bruce Lenny Bruce, started it all off. I had a re I need to do some more work. He opened the door for guys like Carlin and Pryor. His you know, there's more at saw back then too. But Lenny in particular, he had a irreverence to him. And this this notion to buck the current. Yeah. Standard of what you couldn't couldn't say. You know, he just change change. What comedy was how brave to he was a, you know, there's people like that that these these figures whether it's Nikola tesla for technology and innovation whether it's you know, there's a bunch of people like that in this world. Yeah. They just change your one dudes like Elon Musk is another one one do pow to Slough this Jesus Christ. These these these people that are like that one guy just goes off in a direction. Yeah. And I I think like I wonder if say if they went to the universe. Little money for everybody. Right. Do you? You be. I don't necessarily think it's the worst thing in the world. But then you have as much adversity for people. Like, would you get a nickel? Tesla. Would you get us George Carlin? Will you get people if they didn't have to look at the world that they're born into and see not the things be uneven and sparked some desire you not just want. If we get that. I don't know. I think you would only have your needs met. I think you would still have your desire to improve. I think that's an inherent thing. But I think it would be more beneficial. This is just a wild. Guess I'm wrong. It might be totally wrong to might be. You might be right. It might ruin people's ambition. But it might raise the base level. Right. So what we're we're we're operating from never the same level of desperation. So maybe we're not as mean to each other. Right. But maybe the innovations still takes place because people are always going to want to be challenged. And maybe it's it comes from a good place, right? Instead of from this. Constant place of desperation. Right. So somebody goes from zero to ten in their life, which would be you know, somebody that does something unique and special in outstanding. If everybody all automatically is given a three at their base. Then now that this is going to get us to a thirteen or maybe you just don't have as much violence. Yeah. Don't have as much sadness. That's true. Because people. Yeah. People were violent when they see they want stuff from other people if your if your food if your food and your shelter is always met like we don't have that. Right. And we've talked about earlier about like cultures have standards in these standards. They're different everywhere and those communities accept them. And they don't like it when you try to change his standards, if our standards here were that all of our needs are met. We we decide as a community if we're going to stick together and car selves America, we should treat ourselves as a family, which our selves as a family. We shouldn't ignore neighborhoods. We shouldn't ignore communities that are downtrodden. We shouldn't ignore any kind of poverty, we shouldn't ignore a lack of education. Or lack of nutrition we should ignore those things. So if we take care of all those things all of those things first before you anything else of yet a reengineer America. Would you think, hey, we have to do is ramp up the military budget by ninety four billion dollars because we're basically arms dealers. Yeah. We're gonna make these deals with Syria and Saudi Arabia wherever the fuck. We could sell rockets. Do it's. Oh, yeah. But that's what we do. That's what we did is what we do. But if instead someone came along and said, no the way to make this country stronger is not make the arms industry bigger the way to make this country stronger is to make the human industry better. Right. Make it better. That's fine tuned. Humans fine. Tune. Yeah. Why haven't we done that less losers? Yeah. Two thousand twenty four. I like the O von run for president lessons loses. That'd be the best. I'll be your vice president Pence. I don't do anything like that hang back and eat chicken. Nice. And all of the weird hair. Piece. Oh, bad. Kept us about your go ahead. We're probably almost done. Anyway, it's already three o'clock. Go P, go info graphic on the do you? I it's because there are the argument for the positive or wanting it is a lot of jobs are going to be replaced by robots soon. Right. Yeah. These are some of the jobs that are that are at risk. Yeah. They think automation automation is gonna kill most jobs so insurance underwriter ninety nine percent of jobs are at risk farm labor. Ninety seven percent of jobs are list. Wow. Fast food, cook ninety seven percent of jobs at risk construction. Laborer. Eighty eight percent truck drivers seventy nine percent mail carrier sixty eight percent while had a robot cooking food. I think it was called flippy. They don't remember where they put it of the United States. Maybe but they just fired. It was the word they use because it was doing too good. Whoa. Yeah. Fired it because it was doing. Too. Good. That doesn't I get? I believe. Yeah. That's a stupid asset ended way of looking at it. I don't understand that stupid shit place. Kelly burger. It was too good. That's so stupid. That's so dumb. It's been sidelined. At least temporarily turns out the automated fast food worker created by me so robots would've victim zone. Success? Fifty burgers our? Wow. So yeah. Was a bad. It's better way better better than you. You don't wanna work that job right at suck. At that job. We can find some other things that people do. Yeah. But you know, I'm I'm good at a couple of things. I'm not gonna flip burgers what you're not gonna that. You don't want to get in mindlessly flip burgers. It doesn't even need a mind. Why not leave the mindless things to the two things with no mine. So this is the idea behind, but the problem is where's the money? Come to take care of all the people with the universal basic income. And are you saving enough money with the robots to make it actually profitable to pay for people? Like, you save more money and make more money Implementation's. Well, Andrew Yang is gonna come in here. And he's going to explain all this stuff to me in a way that supposedly gonna make sense. He seems really smart, and he was on Sam Harris's podcast and that worked over there. And as most your enough ever held. I think congratulations. How much can you? Hold kind of car. You drive. Theo von drive, a BMW. But I'm trying to get rid of it figured more muscle car type, fellow really. Yeah. I own a nineteen Eighty-four Ford Escort. And somebody stole my passenger see God down at. Yeah. What are they going to do with a passenger seat? I don't know probably put, you know, put in the living room. I guess at the time put in the forest and jerk off. Take. How much comes out in the fucking forest, bro. Not for the next. No wonder swamp thing happened while I was thinking this once they found out that in some plants some plants contain DNA from salmon because the salmon were used as fertilizer by the plant as it decomposed got into the actual plan itself, and you can actually somehow or another through some scientific process that I'm too stupid understand. They can actually detect salmon in the actual plan itself, we're close. So if you were whacking off on that tree tree it's every day. That's your spot. You went down to that. Teddy tree and whacked off on the roots. And then like capture awhile, you did an analysis and you found your DNA in the tree itself. Helium? Oh, be great, man. If it maintains the information of everything that wacked off on it. You have a little summit at a would one day. You data kit in our town of one time, this guy made us on a wooden shirt that I tell you that a wooden shirt. Yeah. He made his son shirt out of plywood for Christmas. Yeah. We wanted to kid to wear it. Oh, yeah. You did. And I remember I was wait a minute. Is it a stiff shirt or is he make it like little bitty tiny pieces of plywood? And we've it all together. I was pretty stiff and the dad was a. Like Elvis impersonator. You know, dad was an Elvis impersonator at a casino or did you do at carnivals notice locally? Oh. Oh, but we didn't even in that. No, nobody really I think he's probably an alcoholic. But he had he had four kids and one of them. He made I was going walking home one night and a hurt him in the garage. And he's making like a son like a like a for Christmas like wooden shirt, like a, you know. Not as nice that one is nice wooden shirt. He can you get sore? But that's a like a sculpture. Yeah. That's nice. Can you get one more? That's like. Like if you will over someone's house, and they have a wooden shirt on a hanger like, and they think that's cute just leave. Now, people are assholes. Now this kid needed it. Because people weakness is that salmon. Yeah. It's a framed wooden shirt and looks like he's he used to beat him up because of his wooden Scher not we used to beat him up anyway on the bus while the wooden shirt would protect you from a lot of shots and. And it helps him where that wouldn't sure. You better shut the fuck us where to God. He did a kid's not walking around with would over his body. Like that not bad be that would be. Yeah. Pads inside the looked happy. Fuck. No, dude. Who do you think his dad is essay off lady? Yes. See there's some lady there. Okay. But this was early. It might have been teak. Download speeds way too much attention could are opposing pretend to be aloof short hair by the ocean, wearing a wooden shirt. How about a big? No, that's a big. No from me. Hey, do you wanna beat my friend to show she's channeling with her fucking geometrically patterned wooden shirt on what? No, I like regular people. This kid's name was Eddie. Can you look up teak wood teak? Look like, you imagine. If someone was trying to set you up with that gal, you'd be like, well, I'm going because obviously, she's very pretty sure she's not crazy. If you're super desperate. She might have splinters that our tits studios one photo shoot. She doesn't wear that. Yeah. Except when she worships the ocean. Now, that's something a little more valuable tea or so like that what are the kind of would overprint shirt? Now, we're talking. So it was like that. But a little bit more, but more real and he wore this for what reason did action. Chest plate like a Roman soldier you like that. Okay. Was it like how was it? A connected on the waste on the sides, rather it was just kind of like a long square. It was almost like kind of a cereal box kind of what did he put his arms aggressives arms on the side in the side. Yeah. Fuck your armpits up. Oh is limiting. I mean, look man, these were I mean, the man that made it. Not a real can't do. So by people would find out. They would call him out. We do when I was younger, you could do anything you wanted to, you know, people people were I don't know. Just more fun it use your imagination more when I was young. You have more fun. How many kids you see beaten your kid people used to beat their kids? Yeah. Probably like at least twenty. I bet. The people in the street beat their kids. Yeah. The people beat people up way more common. But I guess it's maybe we've moved out of those areas to bast true people back in those areas like Brome on the frontline shit still going down the mall. Mall. Did I yeah, he's he will fight man. I saw this old man. Get thrown into a fire. Once I'm gonna ditch fire that people were burning right in this guy was in his eighties to Mr. Pollino. Why are they gonna ditch? He was fighting a bus driver. He was fighting our bus driver and on the bus driver through minute ditch. Yeah. I don't know. Why was he swinging on the bus driver? I don't know whose fault was it both of them both of them. I think I mean of you know, they're both adults. I mean, look, man. I'm not surprised they were doing it. Oh, you know questionable. Humans. Yeah. Yeah. It you. Yeah. If you saw me with me shock, they were fistfight. But what do you do with people like that wants universal basic income rose around, and there's some stupid people that just ain't getting any better basic needs met. Okay. So then after that after you do a couple of years, universal basic income. Then what do you do in the woods? Yeah. Let wolves loose thin. The herd. Some thing could some dude out there Jergen off thinking, he's. How to Bush? He just turns these six wolves look up. And they just know what to do. Takes out. We think a wolf would attack while you were jerking on. Now. Oh, yeah. You're all pink. Everything's pink pink. Dick looks delicious. When you wearing clothes. It's like can I eat that? I guess I can eat that. I gotta get through all that fucking bullshit plywood. T shirts. Once they get through that. I'll eat the fuck out of that, dude. But if they catch you out there with just all pink. Oh, yeah. The fuck outta. Yeah. Yeah. Hope I don't do anything bad like that. And they in any of them see me, you know, I don't wanna be have that kind of ending you get into this. And I'm going to stay right now. I don't think you're going to be jerking off in the woods and eaten by a wolf. I might be wrong. Yeah. But I would say that's not how you're going to go. Thanks. I just don't see that in you. I see better things for you. Your pecker in your hand. Imagine. It's like you about to come in the first wolf built your cat bit your calf. And you like look they're gonna get me. Anyway, I'm just keep going on the edge. Oh, yeah. Maybe the bite in the pain because you're about to come. What if you bust like more than usual? Yeah. And you're like, wow. At least I dyed my biggest load ever take that. As one thing. I've always been disappointed by right is the sheer volume of your loads. Well, it's not much. If you look at it to sink in magnesium, really allegedly egg whites. I do have zinc at the house actually zinc's supposed to be good for raising testosterone. Bro. Neighbors. The more you save it up to. Oh, yeah. Who gather up more? But I like to do that nocturnal. I wanna ride I want that dream bus that used to get. The tiger. Super bus. Dude. I want that dream BUSTER when you would bust in a dream those don't happen anymore. But they can't if you search for it if you seek it out, but you have to not beat off for a long time to the point. We bought bodies like this dumb fucker can't even jerk off. Yeah. I'm just going to have to jerk off four him unconscious your brain fuck ensure you. What do you think to you think that you're learning things while you dream, and because some people think you learn things when you treatment, I think that'll be one of the next hurdles that we get over where people are able to be able to take in information while they're asleep. This is what I mean. Like, they say if you have a problem something's bothering you should sleep on it. And when you wake up in the morning, you'll have a clear perspective. I believe that. Yeah. I think so too. I think that's real because I've done that before that seems to actually be a good strategy. If you can go to sleep the promise of something's really bothering you like damage to figure this out, you might stay up all night and be exhausted. And then you might not be able to sleep and think through it you gotta get a higher power to help you out. Man. You gotta get us a higher power comes in the place. Do you think you see yourself ever going to church again? Yeah. I would think so I didn't Churchill is kind of evolving over our time and stuff like that. And would you go to Justin bieber's preacher carlin's? You know? He is. Hey, he text me, actually. Trying to groom you trying to pull you in house how low low load you wear your shorts. I'll tell you guys make fun of this route dig route. Yeah. That was a little wild. So, you know him because he never met a no you just text each other back and forth. He we communicate. Sometimes that route hashtag dick route. He looks good. Yeah. They're both camera to thank. Jay schwartz. But I've never met him. But I would goes to other. Yeah. Try to meet you not tonight, bro. You think he's Homer Harada? No. I mean, that's a weird way of putting it. The euro moron. A year again. You always every time you talking about jerking off the magical. What about the problem is like you came in here with a gay expectation, dude? I jerked off yesterday. I'm planning on coming again for a couple of days. Do you have a time where like if you jerked off, and it's been like four days like man, maybe I should do something. No, I get that feeling and sodomy some it's like a vulture that wants to flat out of my brain. You don't wanna be to sex obsessed? No like, there's a balance. Right. You don't want beat off every day. Now, you don't want to not beat off either because they know consume you. But I think I'm gonna start hunting that dream don't want that fucking nocturnal bust. They don't start a group. Elian bays row. Late night busters brothers dream to how funny is that expression. One hundred and a dream. I want that nocturnal BUSTER hunting the dream. But Tutu magin you fuck. Just like would you have you ever come and dice clay noises? Have you? That guy's a fucking McMahon. A mook. I never liked him. Every story's never been nice. He's never nice to you know, it doesn't make any sense. I don't know. Why? No have you said hide him. If a conversation with them, I've tried I feel like I've tried to engage with them in. He and it will one time he brought me up on stage. And he kept like they told him name a million times. He'd never got. It just got to the point where I felt like he was like being rude. You know, like my him fun. He might just be having fun. He's a good guy is he he's a good guy. I'm a fan. Maybe I need to see another side of him. I mean got to get to know him to know, dude. I when I was a kid I was gigantic dice clay fan. Remember when I first started meeting him at the stores can't believe he's either. But once you got to know him as an adult. I mean, being he's been always been cool. Yeah. Yeah. Maybe I just need to have a new experience with him. He's he, you know, he just his dice. He's crazy like half of his thing. Like if you go to his Instagram page half of it is like a poodle. He's always fucking around. Always be funny. Yeah. That's true. But he gave me very good. He's the reason why started tour, and he gave me very good advice. When I was you know, like in the nineties, man, he's like you should go tour was like your funny. His hang around here. All the time. Yeah. I was like, yeah. He's right. I don't wanna hang around here. I guess you'd do clubs. I should make a living and his what he was basically saying it was like don't get roped into only working in Hollywood and doing television shows and stuff like that. Because then these other people you control your destiny, you could tour. Yeah. And this is from him obviously, coming out of he had the most insane epic success of any comedian ever. Yeah. He was a rocket ship. He was he had sold out hundreds of arenas arenas, giant ask places. A why everyone is DVD his seat. Whatever we hit the neighborhood. And all the kids were watching it. And I wouldn't even allowed to watch it. So I thought when I was listening to him talk. I was thinking. Oh, yeah. Of course, like this guy probably made more money than anybody ever did on a sitcom ever Malia. And he did it just doing whatever the fuck. He wanted to do. And he was basically saying, hey, don't get wrapped up in this only you could tour you can make money. I mean, even if I never made money the way he did you could still make a living. Whereas if you don't tour, and you just do sitcoms or just work in television, especially if you work as a writer, that's the dark path the great stand up comic that becomes a writer. They never tour and they never develop a crowd that happen. Yes. It happens a lot. But weren't they disposed to be a writer? No, no, no, no, no, no. They gave into the writing that could've when we know great comedians who mostly work as writers. And it doesn't make any sense when they don't want to. They wanna be a comic out there performing and the level of their material is far better than the level of their notoriety. You know, is what you're saying. Yeah. That's owen. Smith is a perfect example. Oh, and Smith in my opinion. It's one of the best comedians on the planet. He's a killer. That makes me cry funny guy, and he's so good. His timing. Stage presence is delivery is material. The subject matters. Excellent. It's top shelf comedy. Yeah. But most people don't know who he is. Right. That's because he's made he's made a great living as a writer, but he's still he should you know, he should be recognized as a comic as well. Yeah. That's how I look at it. So basically with dis was telling me back then was like get out go go someplace go. Do the road do comedy out there. You could headline clubs won't gratefully. Yeah. I mean, I mean, I'm glad he did that because we wouldn't get you that you might not be the same comedian. If he didn't say that. Yeah. I'm sure and I don't know. You know, it's easy. It's easy to just decide. Someone's an ass. Hole or you know, have one interaction with someone. You wanna shit on them? I think we should be an I'm trying to do this myself. It'd be very careful when you should on somebody. Yeah. When is it? When is it valid, and why is it just you looking for something to shit on? Right. When are you showing, no empathy? Yeah. No. When what is it? Now. I think I mean. Yeah, you're right. I mean, I'm willing to have a new a new experience too late you fucked up. Fuck says name said Mook, it's over. Oh, well, I don't care about that. I mean, he's gonna get mad. But he he was an asshole. So how is it? Okay. If I if they he just kept. There. He was on stage before me. So I was going to go up after him. He was probably joking around Mon. Yeah. But a certain point it was it was just re- that. No. It was just like he kept not getting it. And then they gotta fuck, you know, is this like at a certain point to me. It was just rude. I see because you're probably a little bit anxious. You're going on after him. And then he's not so your name. Right. And you feel like, oh, he doesn't know AM. So this is kinda disrespectful. There could have been there could have been. Yeah. I think that that certainly could have been my partner couldn't make an ego and nine point nine percent fucking around. Yeah. And he thought it was funny. Maybe one would do that. If it was if he knew you. Yeah. We go who Bobby Lee, right? He's alive. I mean, that's part of who. He is. Right. Well, maybe I'll maybe I'll have an opportunity to get to know him better in Dhamma hate each other. They do I'm great friends with both of them. Now, I loved watching him at Mitzi Shore's when he performed the MSCI shores reunion are deaths party. But I remember watching him there. You know? I don't I mean, I think that he's a great comedian and stuff at you know, who what does he like now, though, I don't know who would you have liked to have seen live that you never know. I see him live when he was really old and sick. Unfortunately, I love him man from ROY near my mother's from Illinois Peoria house. House. I at least got a chance to see be in his presence, see him live, and he had this kind of. He kinda had this head Bob thing. That was very, you know, who I think would come back and Marder stand up right now. Dan, Eddie Murphy. Yeah. I think Eddie Murphy came back right now, he would murder stand up murder. It somebody said that the other day they're thinking he might come back. He did a a thing one day where he was talking about Bill Cosby about them taking awards away from Bill Cosby, and he did this Bill Cosby impression, and he did this was that say what happened pop ups come fuckers sequel back for that the movie, oh, really well is our CEO in it too. He just had his ten th kid. Shoot just shooting mad loads. Now, there's a guy who needs a tree in the yard fifty seven years old. He's fifty seven damn it's mazing. He's only six years older than me or. Yeah. Six years old, and there's a guy easing. Eddie murphy's. It's been around forever out. Did he was killing it when he was eighteen years old? He was on Saturday Night Live, but he was like eighteen or something create. You forget how young he was when delirious rolled around. Good lord. He was probably twenty two years old or something would you amid eating come pretty far. How far are you thinking about late foot? We we win over the world writer jimmer, Jim Jim Carey can come thirty feet grow back out looks like. There's a lot of dudes out there that broken the world record in distance coming and nobody wants to give him any credit for it. Because it's like an impromptu thing, you know, like, you don't know. Cited you pull out by. Peter north is known for he was known for volume. Oh, yeah. Yeah. That's a crazy thing. The big loads. Are so hectic that you're known for them? Like like, if you say big loads, you say Peter north everybody knows thank about that. Oh, yeah. All the fucking substantial loads that all the porn stars have dumped on all those all those maidens all over the land. And then one dude is known for the highest volume of comic. You gotta be known known. You know what I'm saying? You're right to be known known known. Right. You're gonna any time after time a grand you gotta fuck and bring that gravy boat. Yeah. You gotta be like you gotta be like the Kanye west of loads. You have to be coming. And also probably look at your watch your phone during it, and you're still coming. You look back at your you. Gotta be the max of loads. Yeah. You gotta be you gotta be. Michael Michael Jackson, undeniable, you think no very little come and probably zero but dancing prodigy like he's the Michael Jackson of dance. But you don't come much when you're doing all that. What activities? Do you think you do where you come a lot like the kind of people that like powerlifters probably shoot giant loads? Right. I think you would think they do. But for their size and stuff they're not doing that much. I think she's the biggest loads in space. I think the guy that's on a cliff cliff climber. Yeah. Is that the biggest loads? I mean that guy shooting some fucking just because he has the balls to climb up like that he's buses spackle. Maybe that's what it is. Like, he's got balls those guys shoot bigger loads. Yeah. Like BMX jumpers, and they jumped three times in the end and land on the bike. Yeah. Maybe they have the biggest loads. Also guys who like fake put a sign on their car when they don't pay a meter like meters broken that is put that on their car still parked their nose dudes bust some loads breath. I think there's other things too like pickpockets. Oh, people that were turtlenecks do not come very much or no what is it about wanting to keep your neck? It's not very manly. It's just a bitch move. It's a similar French thing too. And I don't care about the French. Wow. But you have you been there, or are you just this? I'm probably prejudiced to have you been a friends. Yeah. He'd been a Montreal. Montreal. You didn't love the French. I love the Canadians french-canadians. Yeah. I'll take him you love Canadians, period. I'll have Canadians period. But do you love french-canadians? Yes. Because they are Canadian, but French, bro. Not in the French. And nobody is great one. Yes. Not true people go to Paris every year. Yeah. But they leave. It's not the kind of place. People are mill around. I think people go there, and they decide that it's better than America. Sometimes didn't Johnny Depp move there. Yeah. Poor johnny. You know who else move there? Fuck the guy from law and order of the Mandy patinkin. No, Richard Richard Belcher, Richard Belcher moved to France. He met a woman. Probably. Yeah. I would think we we we. I mean, we love. Yeah bread. But you Boston France. Imagine semen cruising down the street in that city. Roads, a slippery of it. It's all on quarter sideways. Roads slick with low. We'll do. Sideways. Through the air flying out of the bushes. DNA fucking manhole covers like. The clown. Pennywise do this should get getting Gabe road. Sorry. I just very dick oriented today. I won't say, it's okay. Well, it's that time of year. It's spring people are refreshed spring. It's a middle of the winter. Yeah. It's freezing cold outs January. You gotta turn. You guys aren't open minded. It doesn't get more win. Well. Okay. Well, let's just say it's August. Lie. It's August out what it's spring. I have the. Does. Dude. We just did three hours. It we three third Jesus. Cry brothers the longtime never been in my life. Now, all we've done this before not this much think we did how long was the last one. I think a lot of them are three hours. I'm gonna have to get on some pills or something to be able to go through this extreme drink one of these nitro 's really caffeinated the juicy up, plus there's fun fun. Actually last one was longer. Oh. He leave. We've fucking limit it bust on this one. Yeah. We did it. My pleasure, brother anytime. You got a new podcasts out with Brennan Shaab. Yup. Called the king and the sting and it comes out, how did you become the rat king? What is that? He just made fun of me one time and called me a rat. Oh, did you see that video of a bunch of rats connected together to pretend that they're a snake? Oh, yeah. There was I just said Whitney coming Senate to me. They do trickery. I found it on Twitter you seen that. Yeah. That's a it's on my on my Twitter. There's a bunch of rats that connected themselves, and they're running together to pretend that they're a snake Surat came to confuse Barack kings when they all get bundled up together, and they get stuck and they get their tails twined up. Oh, fuck does that ever happens? Disgusting creatures already they die that way too. They find him all caked up and fucking trap already Umbro. But this spring break, dude, it's burning man, let's burning man for rat. Yeah. Look at this watch this this this those are all rats all complete. Bundled up together to look like a snake's, mama rats in the front and the all the baby rats. Stay connected to each other to pretend they're snakes. So they avoid predators. And and you and I saw that from far away. We think it was a snake? One hundred percent. Yeah. How crazy? It's amazing mother. Nature's amazing man. Other nature's mother fucker. Yeah. We're limited time, I think humans you think this is parttime brothers. No way. They're letting us out here. Fall. Those dumb motherfuckers could do is pretend to be snake and can make snakes we've made robots name shoot them to Mars out of our robot. Dick. We can't beat avalanche though. Can if you're not there. Don't go near where it gets avalanche schmo. Kidding the sting the oh Vaughn on Instagram and Twitter. Thank you. Thank you. My brother anytime anytime, and we'll we'll see you tonight at the comedy store later. Thank you, everyone for tune into the podcast. And thank you to our sponsors. Thank you to zoom. Video communications set up your count today at zoom dot US to set up your free account, meet happy with zoom video communications and set up your free account today at zoom dot U S. We are also brought to you by the. Oh, sweet sweet cash up. How we love you. So it's a great idea. They just figured out a way to bypass a lot of traditional banking nonsense the cash app folks and use the referral code. Joe Rogan all one word when you download it. So that you get five dollars. So that five dollars goes to Justin Rennes fight for the forgotten charity and five dollars goes to Ray, Bork, son. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you to cash app in. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you to casper mattresses, the reason, Jamie sleeps. So does the new logo song? Jamie has one of their top of the line mattresses loud. And you can get one too. You can get fifty dollars towards select mattresses by visiting casper dot com slash Joe. And using the promo code Joe at checkout. That's casper dot com slash Joe and promo code Joe for fifty dollars towards select mattresses, terms and conditions apply. That's it. We did it. Thank you. Everybody for tune into the podcast. Holy shit. Still on funny. That was some funny shit ridiculous. He so ridiculous. He makes me ridiculous. But I had a good time. And I hope you folks did too. And hope you're all groovy and all that good stuff and take you Bye-bye.

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