15 Episode results for "Institute For Diversity And Ethics"

Renel Brooks-Moons Powerful Words

Giants Splash

16:47 min | Last month

Renel Brooks-Moons Powerful Words

"Kamala harris went to civil rights demonstrations in a stroller. How'd you get from there to a spot. On a presidential ticket. We'll tell you on. Chronic who is commonly harris a limited series on apple or wherever you. Listen hello and welcome to the splash. I'm john shea of the san francisco. Chronicle and our special guest is the giants popular announcer rennell brooks moon. Hope you enjoyed part one of our conversation here in partout. We discuss baseball's issues with diversity in hiring practices and the commitment to the black lives matter movement and also some cool stories about her folks and willie mays and willie mccovey we pick up with renal addressing the powerful pre-game video that included we now and was shown at every home game. We worked so hard to for the home opener and to set the right tone for our pregame ceremony. And i was really happy that they ask for my input as she productions and our entertainment department ask for my input in the pre game ceremony and in doing that powerful video. The time is now video. Which i don't think any other team in major league baseball made a video like we did in house and i was really proud to to have gabin far hunting. The guys take part in that. So you know. The beginning of this was such an emotional start to the season in so many ways. But i just could not have been prouder of my guys. How did that video evolve because for fans might not realize this but it is played before every game. It's about a minute long in. Its your voice. It's far hunt zaidi's voice it's gave kappler's voices jalen davis voice. It's mike yastrzemski voice and a diversity and the importance of the black lives matter movement and The the message's join us in your voice. Fittingly is the last voice in your last words. Join us And i wish fans could seen at every day because it was just like the few of us in the ballpark in. It's you can see it online. It's probably an youtuber. Giants dot com wherever. But i imagine next year it would be nice if if it were their fans were there but it would have been nice if people could see that every day. Yeah i agree and they were able to see it for for the home opener. But i have to give all the credit to our wonderful are wonderful team it s she productions in honestly john Special kelsey roth house. End at amman. Rodney who who had the vision. We had several meetings on it. I mean they were working on that right to the eleventh hour the day before the home opener to make sure that that the tone was correct they spoke with our black employees resource group To get our feedback on so lot of people had a lot of input but that s few productions crew really they get all the credit for for pulling it together. In fact the night before they. They made some really quick edits because they spoke with one of our members of our black employees resource group. Who had some additional feedback and that it was a really it was any emotional project jump. Who was also a labor of love. I tell you how many zoom meetings i had After george loyd's murder and with staff and with management it was executives Including larry baer Assuring me that that they support the black lives matter movement and that it was not just like a one game saying that it was it was going to be a season-long in a full time commitment which i really really appreciate it. Well you had mentioned the no african american coaches and jalen davis was really the only african american player and he was going to contest a few games. And you said you've spoken out on. Feel free to speak out now. Because i even know whether you might not be comfortable. But the fact is there. Thirteen coaches No african americans. That weren't any african americans from us this season on the the roster. If you look in the office you don't see the faces in a media guide that maybe ought to be there That i you know might be an issue and You know the giants. It's your your employers but at the same time We look around. Baseball and eighty percent of the players are african americans and you and i grew up at a time where there was probably twenty five percent and it was it was normal and the numbers at written a bunch about this spoke with everyone from dusty baker to the the great monte urban over major league baseball tyrone broke antoni. Regan's richard latch over at the university of central florida. The institute for diversity and ethics since four and everyone has theories but there's not a whole lot of movement. But i i asked about the giants in particular and maybe baseball general. Yeah it's something that it really really really really breaks my heart I understand on on the one hand that you know. It's it's it's tough. It's tough to get young black kids interested in baseball now. It's just not a sexy sport when you compare it to. You know football and basketball sports that they can actually see themselves really being man. You know. baseball's is you know it's an expensive sport to play and travel everything i totally. I totally get that. And i would definitely i know baseball. Major league baseball has tried Twenty years. I've been eric to get to get kids more interested in more engaged So i know we do have have that problem but in terms of front office hired. That's a whole separate conversation. Front office. hirings coaches in. That's something that i have spoken out about. You know since. I've been there in two thousand and have really in depth conversation with with larry baer about that. We had our our zoom calls before the season. How do we approach. The season with black lives matter. What's mike experience been like with the giants for for twenty one years and So i i made it. I've made it known that you know this is san francisco. You know are not not just for african-americans but we really need to have more diversity in in so many ways in the front office and it's been. It's been a hard line for me to walk. John because i worked from mlb. I worked for the giants. But i'm also a black woman and i also immuno spokesperson for the my community. I'm a community activists so it's been fine line to walk but one thing i've done throughout my career sometimes to the to the detriment. My reputation is. I'm going to speak out and i always do it respectfully and professionally but that's you know i'm always looked at differently starting with radio all the things that i say that my male counterparts would say or ask for. I'm looked at as different. You know there's that whole angry black woman thing. Even though i i work my butt off. I work my tail off a treat. Everyone the way. I want to be treated treat everybody with respect. I mean i had. I was in contract negotiations earlier this year and quite frankly i wish they would have gone a little smoother than they did having been there for twenty years. But you know. I've i've had to fight. I've had a I'd have to fight my way through a lot of things. And when i find for myself i'm fighting for others. I'm finding for those that are gonna come after me. You know what i mean. So it's been a. It's been a tough position for me to be this particular but this is the year that we are all having uncomfortable conversations and the giants have just given me the freedom to speak out and say what i need to say and i think when i ended one of my conversations with larry thanked for the conversation and you know he says it's a safe space for you to say whatever you want to say. I said you know with all due respect. I'm going to be watching. I got a hold. You guys accountable guys accountable. You know another thing to jonah is as i love tony larussa. Baseball career actually began with the oakland. A.'s i don't know if you know that my sports career was much tony larussa. I was really so upset when he got the job with the white sox. I was like you've got to. In fact i think i tweeted out. I would like to remind major league baseball that we still only have two black managers. I was just. I was like what is it gonna take are so many qualified candidates out there of color black candidates in particular. And i'm like you've got to be kidding me here. We go again. With all due respect to tony larussa. But what is it gonna take. What is it gonna take so. It's something that i have really spent spent a lot of my career probably the last ten years in particular. When i've kinda gotten a little more settled a little more comfortable. I've got to know more people in the front office that i've really been able to speak out a little a little bit but i will say john. This is the first year that i feel like. I've really been listened to while that's that's good and bad news that you weren't listen to in the past and it's great news you finally are. It's still an old boys club. Let's face it. That's still their same thing in my radio career But i really felt this year. That i'm being seen and i'm being heard we'll be back with more of renewal brooks moon right after this comma harris. The civil rights demonstrations in a stroller. How'd you get from there to a spot on a ticket. we'll tell you unchronicled. who is kamala harris. A limited series on apple podcasts. Or wherever you listen. I'm guessing that a lot of these. Maybe like you said uncomfortable. Conversations the fight a might have stemmed from your childhood in your parents because they they were both like you said administrators and educators nathaniel and juanita. Amer your dad. The first african american principal at at san francisco high school. What did they instill in you to to give you the strength to do what you've done in your life and and we'll also clear your grandfather who closely followed the negro leagues which you mentioned and i don't know if i'm leaving out brother nathaniel do near yeah brother he really wanted to be sandy colfax but i. I can't tell that story you have to say you want to be one. Because he was a right hander. Didn't have anything to do with the giants exactly. Yeah yeah outlet. Yeah my my brother. Had you know major league dreams. And i mean as a little girl. My favorite thing to do. Every summer was to go watch. My brother planned his tournaments down in central valley and in stockton and everything john. There's not a summer that i don't remember probably from the earliest age of four. I remember just being campbell to all the time with my mom and dad and my big brother. I don't. I don't remember a time in my life when i wasn't a baseball fan. That's just my family is. It's just a huge sports family but baseball in particular because of my my grandpa and my brother wanted to play major league baseball but you know my parents groping the jim crow south and Always instilled in myself and my siblings the importance and the value of education as it being the greatest deterrent to racism and to sexism. And i i just watched my dad lead. By example he never really sat me down and you know and and gave me like a. You know a talk on what you what you do when you accomplish this. What happens when you get. I just watched him be such a fighter in my neighborhood for particularly for at risk kids it was so important because my parents fought for their education horrible stories of of you know them trying to get their education as little kids in the jim crow south. You know trying to catch. You're trying to get on the bus into the back of the bus and the bus takes off you know. My parents fought for their education. And that's why it was my dad's calling to fight for other kids education as well particularly those that didn't have access to a good education. So i watched my dad be such an engaged educator and administrator and community activists i watched. I'm what he he was an alpha phi alpha fraternity. I watched all of his community work. And i understood by watching him in my mom. I understood what what i needed to do. And what was expected of me. And then i as i got more successful and had more conversations with my folks and Just in the night. I got into this high profile career and realize the impact that could have and it's been very interesting john. How might my voice. I've been able to use my voice for entertainment but but more importantly for the for the greater good for the good fight just watched my folks do that. There were always meetings to attend and speeches to give and rallies and parent teacher conferences. And you know my dad would just go out of his way to go to students homes and really get in there and work with the parents and everything was so important to him and you can probably tell he's totally my hero and i have his face and i have his voice in everything that i've grown up to do for a living everything that i love with my dad. When i was a little girl in on the radio. I got to play all the songs that we loved listening to on the radio. When i was little watching the ed sullivan show on his lap. You know i got. I got to do my own. Edsall variety show on the radio and going to sporting events. And then i get a sports career so everything that i'm doing everything that i enjoy with my dad who just really lead by example and then i lost him in all three john that two thousand three. That's when i i really of stepped it up. I was like i really got i. I've got to honor my dad's legacy in every way i possibly can every day i'm on a stage or on a microphone in front of a camera. That's just who he was in. I i always wanted to be just like him. Well sounds like you're doing exactly that. And i'm sure the pride factor would be through the roof but unless this is amazing stuff in incredible conversation and rennell. I can't thank you enough. You're always the voice of reason you're your voice Counts it always dead. And it's i don't think it's counted more Anytime before than than than right now But i thank you for all. You've done that. I imagine countless giant fans and folks around the bay and beyond would say the same. Thank you so much. I just want to say that. The fans I'm getting teary again. They have really embraced me over the years and they've been so incredibly supportive this year on social media. Because you know it's it's it's been a hard year for all of us but They've been so incredibly supportive in. And i was able to do two things this season john that i like to share that mum i that really meant a lot to me was that i was really honored to have my own celebrity cutout section and And i was able to choose my charity because you know the proceeds some of the proceeds from the cutouts.

baseball giants jalen davis larry baer tony larussa rennell brooks willie mccovey Kamala harris gabin kappler mike yastrzemski Major league john Special kelsey roth george loyd eighty percent twenty five percent tyrone broke antoni richard latch institute for diversity and et john shea
Vincent Pierson: MiLB Director of Diversity and Inclusion  Work In Sports Podcast

The Work in Sports Podcast - Insider Advice for Sports Careers

38:16 min | 1 year ago

Vincent Pierson: MiLB Director of Diversity and Inclusion Work In Sports Podcast

"Prior Hi everybody. I'm Brian Clap. Director of content for working supports DOT COM and. This is the work in sports. podcast people tune into sports words as an escape. Their day-to-day lives hold stress bills to pay meetings to attend promotions to fight for sickness relationships all stressful endeavors endeavors sports. Either playing them or watching them in theory is a release a chance to tune out the external stressors and enjoy an art form that that is not on canvas with oils and acrylics but on turf with muscles and mind power. My career has embodied this to a T.. I thought about working hard news but the constant stress of politics and death and fire and traffic in tragedy in peril was just too much for me. Sports was light. A passion. Shouldn't play that I could engage my mind into the strategy but stay loose and separate from the constant constriction of life but in all honesty. This is a pretty naive viewpoint because sports isn't separate from society quite the opposite. Sports is a microcosm for society Moore being the way it operates an often dealing with large scale issues before they become large scale cost sports a precursor to global events. Almost a trial society. Where issues are are played out in real time then graduated to the society at large? The sports world is complete with society's conflicts assets and defects are escape world is not right bereft of greed corruption inequality or entitlement or personal. Utopia isn't all upside. It's flawed and broken just like the rest of the world in sports we deal with real life issues like ray rice and cream hunts issues with abuse. Tonya harding conspiring to assault a competitor. Pete rose gambling. The list could go on. We deal with people ruined by drugs and alcohol. Like Roy. Tarpley Josh Gordon. Mickey Mantle. Lamps aren't strong. We talk about Social Justice Issues in the context of Colin Kaepernick. But the use of sports which is a platform for social justice started decades ago why into Sports Act as a microcosm for a world. Well I think it's because sports is the ultimate meritocracy. Elite athletes are put into position to thrive based purely on their skills and ability not their color not third gender. If they stink they get cut. If they thrive and achieve and lead they could sign a massive contracts. If coaches win they they stay if coaches lose they go. They know this to sign the players are going to help them win. No matter what they look like when you have meritocracy it almost forces diversity because different people in different sports succeed in different ways there is some balance but not always always rosy the workplace in sports is just like the workplace in every other business in the world. There are struggles to enforce diversity and inclusion teams have had massive passive problems with these tenants Google stories on the Dallas Mavericks and the Atlanta Hawks and your jaw drop their far from the only to this issue is hot. It's important and it deserves cost and conversation. And more importantly action. There are leaders in the field of diversity and inclusion as it relates to sports and none are more impressive than today's guest Vincent Pearson Director of Diversity Inclusion for all of Minor League Baseball. Let's get to this conversation here's Vinson the Pearson. Hey Vince how are you doing today. Abdullah Brian how are you. I'm doing really well and I'm excited about this conversation because this is one of those subjects. We haven't talked a lot about but we need to so. I'm glad that I've got you on the show and your role is so important and minor league baseball but before we get into all the extremely important an issue. Let's talk a little bit about you. You did. Your Undergrad Virginia State. You graduated in two thousand eleven. Was this the point that you hadn't did. Do you have an intention to work in sports or was that something that developed over your college experience now. I think that I always knew I wanted to work in sports. Update when I I started in college and you couldn't convince me that I wasn't GonNa play sports. I was that person for a little while chasing the game for you know few years longer than I I should have but at the moment that I realized that that's not how I was going to make a living I Moon who I wanted to stay within sport close to the game and For lots of different reasons. That definitely evolved over time and I I was thinking. Well I can't play. I got a coach in migratory basketball But eventually you know as I graduated from Virginia State landed my first positioning sport. I realized my passion for this industry during goes beyond what happens on the field. I actually loved that. So many lives are touched by sport including my own and and now that presents a great opportunity to one bring people together to really create some life changing experiences as now you know I think you worked out perfectly with the position I landed in but I I learned really early on in my career that that was the power for that attracted me to the bet and you said the career you landed in. I WanNa get into that later about how you got to this path. But let's talk a little bit about your masters you went back and got your masters from Central Florida. Why was that important important? Step for you. And how much did getting that extra layer of education help kind of open doors and your career and kind of frame where you want to go so for. Megan Backing University Central Florida La Gone Back to school at the University of Central Florida was important because it was a leap of faith attorney. I'm from Roanoke Virginia. I went to School Virginia State by I twenty to twenty two years of my life. I would end Virginia in a very comfortable space. Ah Okay this was picking up my life. Well Birds I quit my full time. Job at the colonial Athletic Association at the time which is the I am a mom to my face called me stupid and those kind of Lake? Your mom would have to go. Get back in line And you know want to four jiving sports but I was really convicted at a time that I wanted something that really appealed to a lot more of my. I centered in terms of compassion And I saw something in the program at the University of Central Florida specifically the chair. Back the Richard Lab Chick and in his background and really pioneering using sports or positive change in society. I thought if at twenty three I can go sit next to uh-huh human being like this. Who has a lifetime dedicated to living sports into positive? Social Change I'll think that got something I regret. I think I'll be better for it. And oh by the way I'll get a master didn't administration of all else fails. I'll get a job outside of sports but I think it real money early. Yeah So you know and I have to now of your mind. Our program does recently suffered really severe loss on one of our professors fasters. Mike Riley actually passed away. This past. Weekend I just thinking about. UCS is very touching moment. Right now I was his first. I graduate assistant so WANNA take a moment to send allowed to the Devos family that loves it a relic family first and foremost and US You know just give him his love. I definitely wouldn't be where I am. who weren't for him in the investment he made in my career In the friendship he as. I've definitely just trying time for the family and extended family and devos a bit of a Tangent Airway. Now he's Okay Olea. My mind ended as a talk about my. UCF experience. Well no that's important. I think that having a mentor. That's hoped to guide and frame who you are and then being able to respect that in a time of the pain that you're dealing with right now of course is a good platform for that. I appreciate you Before we get back into the deeper subjects you said that your in your mom. That was the first time she'd called you stupid As has there been any experiences like that since she edgy called you stupid since then. Not The my fate. I don't doubt that it's happened. But she's been kind enough to commit that frustration and income with a mortgage destructive criticism when when she brings it to me. Okay so while. You're getting your master's you mentioned. You were graduate assistant in the Institute for Diversity and ethics and you talked about your mentors terms and how they've been pillars in this side of the sports industry for decades and yet it seems like this is something a lot of us are just learning about now right. We're just starting talk about the importance of diversity inclusion and I'm seeing more jobs posted that involve like yours that are diversity inclusion. What tell get into the details of this? His program like what you were able to do as a graduate assistant and how that helps kind of frame your perspective. What was that experience like for you though? That was really a great and it would kind of my first time on realizing that. Okay Barad actually A space for this I always thought anything I did. That was directly geared toward You know building or engaging minority community based on that premise alone would be aside project or Something something I would have to create on my extra hour either at work or personal But the experience that used the act would be to for diversity Ethics in sport actually allowed me to realize okay. This is something that organizations care about This is a skill set that organization. We need the experience. Allowed me to Actually touch every major professional sport on the way working Dr. graduations we will give you up and excellent believes and go through the data that they provided for us and obviously we would support one another throughout that process leading to NBA MLS NCWA. Aa football coaches. We've been lifted Spore media representatives and winter and created essentially a demographic ethic profile that Would and then there was a process back to latching had created and would give them a grade and each year it'd be posted on. ESPN so it was it. It was cool because he got to see our work then be posted on. ESPN IS I. Wow we get Credits for assistance. We've provided that part of it was cool but then ought to know that these leagues respond to that Right cut of the platform that is being put on. And then you start to see the power our And you start to see the The unique positioning for this work. And it's like okay. This is this. Is there the appeal for this. This is something that could actually be done. And I think that's when kind of the light bulb went off and even then it was too ambiguous to go and target during my graduate schooling experience right but that's when a light bulb went off it. Okay this is more than just You know a side project Eh. Yeah this is a direction so at the same time. There's a lot going on in the kind of global news conversation to you could say there's things happening Outside of sports there's things happening inside of sports and there's a lot more attention drawn to the subjects of equality and diversity and social justice. was that also kind of an underlying kind of inspiration to you is to see what was happening out. In the though wide landscape of the world and know that there was an impact you could make using using that towards sports as well. Yeah most definitely and I can share that when I was going into the program in the summer of two thousand thirteen and in the previous year Trayvon Martin was killed Rey. His trial played out that Spring and summer. And I've I that. That was the moment for me where I watched that trial Probably at unhealthy rate Followed it and closely as I could and in the final verdict was was crushing for me. But you know kind of looking back now and seeing how. The sport community embraced respects story. On how the sport community really putting on a different platform again. That's the power sport one data. We started to tell the story. It became of global story. That's right and so it is very is not lost on me that we are also in a similar space and I can share with Miley baseball and another not gotten there yet but when the Charleston shooting happen In in deterring talking in the name escapes me at the moment Our team was able to step in and support the family support the families who are impacted in and make a donation and we were able to match their donation. And it's just like that may not make front page news for CNN. When Marley did but I know that family will never forget that we still have an opportunity to again create those memories within our Ball Carson in our community and pain live and unfortunately tragedies something that you know it can't be avoided but we can It does provide an opportunity thirteen to step up and show that we are committed to our communities But you know getting a bit attended I feel like what happened in society. What happened at -ociety and what happens? In sport almost immediate directly intertwined because for Trenton. The the playing field right and we get into society. I I've been I've had conversations where I'm like in the entire country With all that happens. Good and bad. There's one organization that everybody's looking at in wondering what they're going to do about the domestic violence issue in our country and the National Football League no other organization or company or you know no one in Silicon Valley in ask those questions but the National Football League is is being held accountable. And I don't think that's unfair. I think that's rightfully so and I think that's a message on the opportunity. Tony and responsibility of sports to transcend are playing field and impact society because we were unique addition to do. It's so true and so many of us that worked in sports our entire career all say that I think sometimes we get looked at as sports fans at lug nuts like not these extremely intelligent eligible people and that the bigger issues than sports and Blah Blah Blah. And yet you look at it and say there are people in our community and our world in community relations in diversity and inclusion and the athletes themselves that are making such change on such a grand scale and impacting everyone on such a large level level that I think the sports world actually should take a lot of credit for that or at least a pride in being part of a movement and progress progressive. Forward a great way to put it that it should. We should take pride in that And Nash Shy away from it because there are a lot of folks who will work their entire lives and I had the opportunity made the impact that we haven't or we should grab that about a horn. Yeah being I find the subject of diversity inclusion and inclusion really fascinating as it applies to the sports world and just the world in general the how behind it all like. How does this happen? It's such a big conversation. But let's start with that part that actual conversation. I hear this a lot and I'm going to be blunt here. The common thing you hear era from those of us that are not diverse. Because I'm a forty four year. Old White male is non diverse. You get is that it is important just to be having the conversation station about these issues. I hear that all the time. It's just great. We're having the conversation but I I kinda I kinda dislike that. I hate the idea that that's our goal. And that's such a low. Oh Bar that's all we really care about is like well. We're talking about it and that's a good first step and I want to push people in a way to aim higher and to stop putting ourselves in backward is talking about it and allowing the conversation and actually going steps further right I mean am I crazy for thinking that way no no not at all. MM-HMM I actually do your pain away. And what I mean when I say that as I think back to my star with Miley baseball I think within two weeks I said now mentor and thought to myself This is going to require a lot of patients And for or anybody wanted to break into the field diversity inclusion. I think that would be my first. Bit of information are or advice is if you don't have patients develop It's a lot of meeting people where they are. And so I think that's why the conversation of it good you're having the conversation at all because you know we kind of it was a time where this wasn't even allowed. You spoken on I think that's where that comes from but I agree that we have to graduate from that exact home. We cannot stay there so yes great job. We're talking talking about it now. Let's put on it. Let's let's put steps in order for us to get better in place and let's hold ourselves accountable. I think as long as the conversation includes those elements then I will say great job. Great talk otherwise with you. It's We gotta do more. We have at the set a higher standard in terms of how we engage in comparison you know think of business development if we had a conversation around Clothing deal we would not be happy that we did talk about it right and we have to bring that same mentality to this. Where where it's okay to start but we have to start with the end in mind in an least have some type of vision for what that looks like? I will push back like little bit. You mentioned that you're not versus. They come. I think I'll say this. I understand what you're saying. But we have to contextualized the diversity within that could become something where they create that puts you out of the conversation and we very much need you in the conversation. So you're not racially diverse by which you mentioned in there may not be that element of gender diversity dependent on the crowd that attend but I think contextualising diversity diversity inclusions become such a hat but almost losses meaning That's something I always like to do. That's that's put some context on that. Because you could be your. I would ensure you an extrovert based on that you have an entire podcast. Thurgau people breaking into sports Interesting to look at that in consider a very different thing just hanging every little characteristics that they goes into making you who you are and me who. I am If we're not the same person element of diversity now. We knew one of the intention. That's where we might have to say we want to anymore. Racial diversity or more gender diversity wind are organizations of the always. Say to be pathetic. Tell me what you one bright -versities just become too vague. Now it's fair. I'll take that push back no problem but I wanted to get it out there too. That I'm a I'm a forty four year old white male. I wanted WANNA know. Make sure everybody knows that. I'm speaking from that perspective. Now that's that's where my feet are on the ground and I don't want to pretend to be somebody that I'm not so I just wanted to be clear about that as well. Oh but I appreciate the pushback as well. Let's talk about. Let's get into this minor league baseball conversation. Let's talk about your specific role because you're the director of diversity and inclusion for a very large organization of teams the question here how do you go about effecting change in Minor League baseball what does that process look like you know the the fun part about that is Well we have one hundred sixty communities in different in each one we go back to been director. Diverting Ingredient reminding baseball officials also the first time this position ever existed. There was no blueprint. There was no. Hey this is what the job looks like it's and we had a vision We do have our visionary leader Pat O'Connor But there is no blueprint to this day. and I think that's part of our culture as an industry miley baseball we have We have a way a of going about doing business. That allowed us to be more creative It actually requires us to be more creative We have to push harder. We have to get out of our comfort to get outside of the box. And I think that's been the approach to our diversity initiatives. How can we get outside of the box? Get outside of what we've done get outside of what we think we need to do. And go beyond that So engaging Keynes's really really the most important part of what I do because that's the only way we're going to actually see change affected We could paint a beautiful patron in here in Saint Pete with avas representation of what we do in our community. But if we don't get that same type of activity activity at one hundred sixty different communities Mile Meiling baseball as an industry will not have great story to tell the beauty and that is our team are chomping at the bit for what to do next next. Oh that's good that's really good. Would what when we launched our Koba del Advertising on platform would be initial. We did a fourteen pilot. A big graduated to a thirty three pain series and the two thousand eighteen season teams clawing to get in in the way that the foundation is settled. And I can't take credit. This a huge collaborative effort really the entire often to saint people led by our vice is president Marketing Strategy and research. Kurt Hunziger waited that that platform position requires so much Authenticity and genuine interaction in your community. That had you can't fake it. You can't get into the program and fake it and I think I think that's the most important piece of what we do. Every step we've taken with our diversity. Initiative has been an authentic step if that authentic stabbed least west of in our toll and going back to the drawing board and come up with a better plan where one hundred percent okay with that. We'll do that happily because we're GONNA come right back even with the same authenticity. More prepared based on the feedback we've received and now we can move forward. I think that's been our approach is just how can we be authentic doc into how can our approach me genuine whether it's education and culture whether it's collecting data whether it's creating multiple multicultural marketing platforms or whether it's going to recruit and and finding town for the industry. How can we genuinely approach? Those different pillar approach those different projects in Megan though. It an auditing interaction. Which I think is going to do wonders for US five ten? Can you down the road. Yeah so you've been with Minor League baseball now for a little over four years how would you look back and evaluate where you were versus where you are now. Have you been able to kind of see the change efforts that you're putting into it. Wow I yeah I think so. We've seen our initial become a lot more comfortable with the dial on on this kind of goes back to where you say. Well with the compensation package on the back taking where we were it was. Everybody knows Dell's diversity and inclusion we all get it You know it's kind of like you take that back a good person business as usual and now it's like hum we know it's important and now here's what we want to do about it. Here's what we're going to provide you and the team Inherited the initiatives. We're going to create as is a leading And now here the steps forward for us and I think ended became a part of the conversation for us was all lot more organic activity taking emplacing hosting their own women. Baseball seminars are king going going out in engaging the black community and their market without a tool kit provided provided talking amongst themselves and how they can collaborate or Share Best Practices to engage of different groups of fans and I think our people are so creative And so unique in how they want to approach their market that if we can can get them thinking about this more often not there they'll take care of yourself. We'll see a lot. We'll get the moving a lot quicker but that's actually a big part of it is Bringing that conversation to the forefront making people can with their own off and then that turns into action. I think that's been probably the biggest shift I've seen it for years is Bertha was. We're going to start to have this dialogue as an industry now. It's very interesting to see them talking back in telling me what they're doing the conversation outside of the program bill with him. That's probably probably milking fighting bay for sure. Sure on a broader scale in sports. I almost look at it. It's almost cyclical in a way. Like in the fifties and sixties go russell for the Celtics was not afraid to talk about social justice assists and the problems that he saw on the global scale. But then I remember during the eighties when I was growing up in the nineties Jordan. Bird magic they didn't really talk for this kind of stuff. A lot of the athletes stars. The time didn't really get on that platform and now again. It's starting to come back again. Guys like Lebron talking about these things. And and and there's there's a voice out there how important in your view is it that the athletes used their platform and the power of their reach to discuss. These topics like social justice and inclusion. And of course you have to include Kapernick and all the other voices in the NFL. They got a lot of people are using those voices. How important is that to you? I think it's important I I think actually Kinda breathe life into me on a daily when I know that it's almost like if you as a greater mission And they'll give me wrong. I Love Working Marley baseball. But what I know. Lebron James is committed to the same mission that I'm committed to you. You know you get you. Get a little tap into that yeah. They're they're people and the diversity inclusion space who I think we Kinda draw encouragement When athletes used their platform Polish for social change? Because it's kind of a lending a hand to the same mission that we're fighting for and obviously the platform stage and they have is likely going to be bigger than anything I'll have in the near future so be able to attach to some of their Their word is always very impactful. And it's encouraging to see. I think optically thank Eh plant sports now to just understand that. There's more to this than the game you know. We talked about that a lot on this conversation that even as executives -secutive we have to understand. There's more than there's more to this than what happens during two three hours that we're going to have sport activity taking place over athletes to understand. Eh Well I think is important By their own individual and socialize but then also for their communities and in the greater society the Laura Vince. There are two hundred and fifty six minor league baseball teams. I think you're making a pretty big influence as well. Give the quite the opportunity that really maintain. Yeah for sure so just a few years back. I WANNA use a little case study here at the Atlanta Hawks were like in the middle of controversy. Danny ferry was the GM the time he was connected to scouting reports on well Dang that were inappropriate. Insensitive owner self reported himself on sending out a racist email. I mean this. The franchise was not the model for tolerance and then fast forward a few years and the hawks just recently received an NBA award for inclusion leadership. This is along way of asking you about change and how it happens. How do organizations and leagues make those dramatic changes necessary to improve their operations? Sounds like the Hawks did. Yeah I think we'll what I'VE GOT TO GIVE OUT IN UTAH. And I knows an organizational effort but she is the modern this space in amused that I looked to You know if I had a Now Rushmore Deny boathouse swore she would definitely be on that Mount Rushmore Similar it's almost based on personality of organization and I'm bringing it to like an individual level. You know I might know the person that there are things that I need to do better than I need into improve that I'd do wrong but for whatever reason and Pale I get some trouble board. I don't seem to make a change I think that's part of the personality. You kinda get exposed. And you're Kinda Nabati being held accountable at a new level. So you commit and I think it is genuine that commitment. Fortunately for the Hawks and I think now they're getting to review for their also organizations who organically or naturally Just do things in an inclusive manner. Have they don't need to you know back to the personality. They're supposed to don't need to me told to work out three times a week. They just naturally have that built into them. So I think it's Kinda Organization of personality. You probably started the top man in the back tomorrow baseball. I'm fortunate that no one Patrick see his presidency. Oh Two thousand and eight. This was one the first initiative he put in place the diversity initiative And granted I was hired in two thousand fifteen advantage. It from the nate everyone in this industry her from him that diverse including is going to be important under. My leadership is Gives me a much easier job to do And I think he just puts us in a position to Avoid some of the the downfall that may come with a misstep or that hydro exposure. The hawks had to go through in their earlier years. And it actually have a more organic approach to becoming An award worthy industry industry changes. It can happen in a lot of different ways but I think it was. The you know the exposure always area. Now you gotta change but Kudos to the Organization for doing so in a way that was real because you know there's a lot of Window dressing dirt diversity including spaces. Well Yeah I think that's a really good point that sometimes need to get caught and have NC the repercussions of it before you start to make some real tangible changes and again. I'm with you good for the Hawks from for making that change happen. I know it's impossible to predict. But where do you think we are with diversity inclusion in sports looking down the road five ten years because it feels like if you look back five to ten years. I don't know if we would've predicted we've made it this far so we need go even further and say we because I think it's all of us What do you think we we will be in five ten years better very That is a difficult one to predict. I think that we will be helping a much better. Play the actually say I look at the Silicon Valley elite model in terms of sharing Beta You can go on any of their websites. I think that's one thing that I would like to see for myself and my peers sports and five or ten years. Let's be more transparent. Yeah that's that's not. Just tell the story. But let's use the numbers And and let's not make a third party organization have to do it. Let's do it ourselves. the hopefully. I would like to see that just kind of you. You know maybe catch up to the time with some of the other practices that are taking place in India notch page. But I think we'll see a lot more activity Allow more intention around what's happening. Probably loud more sophistication in better storytelling. what I hope. We don't see. He is kind of like the EBB and flow. That you mentioned is that you know we're hot right now. In in ten years we should kind of cool off just to come back in twenty. Yeah Yeah yes it will finish up with this and I. I really enjoyed this conversation. I think you and I could probably go on for another hour or two But I know we're going to do So finish up with this is a field you believe will continue to grow across all sports teams and leagues because it seems like it is right now and I know we're in kind of a growth cycle but do you think that will continue and if so how does somebody a young person who's in college right now. Alan thinks this is. They're calling. How did they get interested in the movement and get more involved than possibly see a DNA career for themselves? Big At the great question and I do invented at this will grow a lot of different ways. So you'll see the diversity and inclusion specific roles You will also see Multicultural not cultural marketing roles talent acquisition and those types of positions that focus on Finding verse Talent there would colleges and universities are beyond but I I would say if someone had those specific injuries in diversity inclusion work. I would find a way to start doing that in pumping that allows you to use whatever you need to. That is though I would it. You really want to get get into community relations for example I would buy way to impact diverse communities If you WanNa do denied and you gotTa Niche Marketing by ways to create multicultural marketing platform or do your research and understand why organizations are doing. Well Nancy how you can get involved. The only thing I'd alarm students on pigeon hole and pitching yourself into pursuing just that diversity including specific role understand. Stand that this work is important if we we need every person in the organization thinking this way Though don't think that you have to be the deny leader to bring diversity inclusion to your pain You can be the community relations communications marketing saying we need divers mine and reverse mentalities in all of those department though I made creating the initiative though there there will be more positions just or shore years ago. My role didn't exist and the associate that I just recently hired these. Those are two positions. Listen by themselves but I think it bit here but fitting Interest Bank of how you may be able to create impact in a different type of role the bank just as I know. I said earlier that I bristle at just having the conversation and acting as if that is a high enough bar and we need to do more than that but I have to say. I really enjoyed this conversation so I appreciate you coming on the show. Vince and I and I hope that we can do it again. Because I think there's going to be a lot more to talk about about us in the future and These conversations are important. That's for sure yet airport. And you know they're fun right. I really enjoyed this I appreciate hey which are doing and engaging young people and I'm glad that we were able to meet new this and definitely before the doing more at any point it makes sense. Let's do again. Thanks for coming. On Vince I really appreciate it. I've said since the day I started this podcast that I wouldn't shy away from any issue whether it's honesty about the real life of working in sports or the importance of social justice diversity and inclusion in our industry I wanNA thank Vincent Pearson for having this honest discussion with me and I hope you got as much out of this interview as I did. Thanks for listening and hopefully altering your perspective or opening your point of view just a bit more doc.

Sports Baseball Laura Vince Miley Vincent Pearson Director of Di University of Central Florida Atlanta Hawks Mickey Mantle NBA Tonya harding Director Google president Marketing Strategy a Colin Kaepernick Central Florida ESPN ray rice Brian Clap
Its official: Were in a recession

Marketplace Morning Report with David Brancaccio

07:15 min | 8 months ago

Its official: Were in a recession

"If, it looks like a recession and tastes like a recession, it must be a recession. I'm David. Brancaccio, how we feel is now certified by the experts. The National Bureau of Economic Research says the US is in a recession the peak, February the eleven year long expansion gone. Here's marketplace's just hope in the past, the N. B. E. R. has watched economic decline for much longer before officially declaring a recession, but economists Teresa Ghilarducci at the new school says this is no ordinary contraction. It would've been a bit ridiculous to wait to tell the world what we already knew and felt the NBA says the magnitude of production and employment declines warranted the official designation Ghilarducci says. What's different this? This time is how quickly we went from full employment to double digit rates of unemployment. It took two years in the nineteen thirties to get to the kinds of rates that we're seeing now. In previous recessions, economist Peter Arosa at State University says unemployed people jumped to other jobs in less affected industries, but this has been a nearly universal shutdown, and that's GonNa, make it much more difficult for people to shift from one job to another. As a way of surviving the the economic consequences of the pandemic Rosen says that can make it even harder to recover. I'm just in Ho for marketplace. All right so of academic interest we are in a recession as if twenty one million unemployed people's did not spell that already of more practical use. When's IT END? There's news from the national. Federation of Independent Business. That owners of smaller enterprises are more optimistic than they were a month earlier. This covers may in some virus. Restrictions were eased. Optimism is up, so is uncertainty. Can we say there's a little bounce? Let's check in with economist David Kelly the chief global strategist at j.p Morgan Funds. It's like falling off a cliff onto a trampoline balances Nice, but the, but the full is all the more important We're still in deep trouble here and I know. The Federal Reserve is meeting this week, but we. We still need a lot of help to sustain this economy until we actually have a vaccine that we can really be into accelerate, so the Federal Reserve is meeting starting today I mean the can't lower interest rates much further. You think they'll ever take a page from our European friends and go negative with interest rates, I hope not and I think. The current monetary policy is by far the most stimulus of monetary policy we've ever had from the Federal Reserve, and the reason is the federal government is is spending huge amounts of money and borrowing it all and the Federal Reserve is buying those bonds, and that's tremendously similar, so there's no point in playing around with bows and arrows of negative interest rates. You're actually using the Bazooka of monetize Federal Dash, and that's really what the federal. Federal Reserve is doing so, what could they do today you think. Is there anything open to them that they're not doing already? Well I think they should reassure the everybody that they will continue to support the economy I think they need to be empathetic to the problems that many people particularly low income workers, and those laid off are suffering and I think they need to express optimism. We will get through this. We will get poces. That is David Kelly. He's the chief global strategist at j.p Morgan. fons always good to talk to you. Sir GotTa do. And despite the year we're having. The Nasdaq is now up ten percent year so far after reaching a record high yesterday today a down Vibe, possibly people walking in the gains with the Dow down three hundred fifty six points, one point three percent at the moment, the S&P is. Up percent, the Nasdaq composite is down two tenths of a percent. Not was story about social justice, culture, business and how the national football league is learning, that now is not twenty sixteen that year, NFL quarterback Colin, Kaepernick kneel during the national anthem to call attention to police, brutality and racial inequality. After that season Kapernick ended up unsigned by any pro team, but amid social justice protests now the country. The NFL's position is shifting here's marketplace's Andy Euler five days after the killing of George Floyd by Minneapolis Police NFL Commissioner Roger. Goodell weighed in for the first time saying quote, the protesters reaction to these incidents reflect the pain, anger and frustration that so many of us feel. Some players NFL. Critics called that statement disingenuous could the Davidson as a sports writer and podcast host for the athletic. There was kind of no right move for Roger Goodell to make in this situation, but frankly he put himself in that place and the NFL. Put itself in that place. Goodell was in a box because Colin Kaepernick in two thousand, sixteen nick was the starting quarterback for the San Francisco Forty niners. He began kneeling during the national anthem to protest police brutality against black people. His team cut him loose. Loose at the end of the season. Clearly Colin Kaepernick paid the ultimate price in terms of his career. That's Charles K Ross he teaches African American studies at the University of Mississippi ultimately team owner. salk happening is too risky. Given the controversy generated, and they're the ones writing the checks Ross says that power dynamic in the NFL remains. When you feel like you know, you can Kinda push your labor force around. You still have control. Why do you have to worry about the public? You do what you want to. What the League and its teams feel compelled to do right now. Is Show support for the fight against police brutality? Richard Lab Schick director of the Institute for Diversity and Ethics in Sport, at the University of Central Florida, says after two thousand sixteen. The NFL started social justice educational programs so when I heard Roger Goodell status. I didn't feel critical of it. All I thought it was part of what they have been doing. The aftermath of George, Floyd's death. The NFL seems more cognizant of the need to protect its revenue and change its image in recent days, a group of prominent players up the pressure for Goodell in the League to. To say more, and he did more strongly condemning racism. We the national football. League we were wrong for not listening to NFL players earlier and encourage all to speak out peacefully protest and appeasing those players could beat the Davidson at the athletics is. Goodell is walking a fine line. The fear is always turning off those dollars turning off the people who you've you as being the most financially valuable to your fan base you dental is getting praised for doing more now, but in his recent statement, He didn't mention Colin Kaepernick by name and the thirty two year old quarterback, who started in a super bowl is still out of a job. I mean dealer for marketplace. I'm David Brancaccio and you're listening to the marketplace morning report. From APM American public media.

NFL Roger Goodell Colin Kaepernick Federal Reserve David Brancaccio League National Bureau of Economic Re David Kelly Teresa Ghilarducci George Floyd football Davidson US David NBA federal government N. B. E. R.
Tuesday, April 16, 2019

Westwood One Daily News Flash Briefing

08:17 min | 1 year ago

Tuesday, April 16, 2019

"From Washington DC. This is Westwood One daily news for April sixteenth twenty nineteen. I'm John trout. The art world history lovers and Parisians are understandably devastated by the partial loss of Notre Dame cathedral, severely damaged were told. But not lost. Jim Rupe has more on one of the most beloved buildings by Christians, worldwide and non Christians alike, construction of Notre Dame cathedral in Paris began any Levin, sixty three took nearly two years to complete finished in thirteen forty five. Means a lot to the French culture to French people. Again Rupe is my daughter. She lives in works in Paris has now for just over five years and lives nearby the conic cathedral neutral so much more than just a symbol of Catholicism symbol of fans. And it's a symbol of how many wars it's been through the liberation of France. So many important events happen in France and near Notre cons in the early eighteen hundreds it was almost lost ransacked and looted by revolutionaries at wound up a storage for food and wine during the revolution. But the Polian Bonaparte is credited with saving it making it the place he would be crowned as emperor it was prepared for Palm Sunday mass in eighteen o to the damage by the revolutionaries covered draped by cloths Napoleon, attended eastern mass there a week later and declared its bills could ring again. What also helped physically restore it and give it worldwide. Attention is that Victor Hugo used it as the backdrop for his eighteen thirty one best selling book, The Hunchback of Notre Dom. It was made into a film in nineteen thirty nine the cathedral survived a lot including World War Two in just a few hours nearly destroyed. Most of Paris came to a standstill says Charlotte remorse as she says. People stood and watched the fire burn. Everywhere. People are very religious concerns for the religious relics inside such as the crown of thorns said to have been worn by Jesus as he was led to his crucifixion as well as a portion of the true cross on which he was crucified both were saved for this to happen now during holy week is a double blow to Catholics who worshiped there. The rebuilding. Retold though will begin right away. Center of Paris is remembered on as being most visited a monument in Paris, more people. Visit Notre Dom than the Eiffel tower thirteen million people a year, enter the cathedral doors. I'm Jim Roope. The Trump White House and legal team are preparing for Thursday morning. That's when the Justice department is set to release a redacted version of the Muller Russia investigation report. Bob Costantini says that won't be the last word when word from the Justice department about the redacted reports released came President Trump was flying to Minnesota. He tweeted from Air Force One. The Muller reports which was written by eighteen angry. Democrats who also happen to be Trump haters and Clinton supporters should have focused on the people who spied on my 2016 campaign and others who fabricated the whole Russia hoax. The White House is not claiming executive privilege on any of what might be disclosed. So all reductions are being made by attorney general William Barr deputy rod Rosenstein and Muller himself. But press secretary Sarah Sanders is well aware Capitol Hill. Democrats want to see the whole report to look for lines of investigation of their own. They don't get a second chance at trying to reinvestigate the president after ten years and millions and millions of taxpayer dollars wasted on a complete hoax. Sanders there on Fox News Sunday, the Trump team of personal lawyers led by Rudy Giuliani has prepared a lengthy rebuttal that was on standby for what turned out to be AG bars brief synopsis and conclusions. It was not used then. But might have to be dusted off wants Democrats get a hold of the full report, but they still may have been proof of some very bad deeds and very bad motives, and we need to see that. That's House Judiciary committee, chairman democrat, Jerry Nadler on CNN state of the union. Bob Costantini, Washington. Former Massachusetts Governor William weld officially launches a long shot challenge against President Trump. Correspondent Linda Kenyon has the story. President Trump has his first. Official Republican party challenger. I'm announcing that I'm running for president of the United States as a Republican against President Trump in twenty twenty Liam weld who is seventy three was the libertarian party is vice presidential candidate in two thousand sixteen he reregistered as a Republican earlier this year in canton, Massachusetts, where he lives well served two terms as governor of Massachusetts in the nineteen ninety s where he built a reputation as a fiscally conservative socially, moderate Republican. The Republican National Committee is taking steps to head off any potential primary challenger by voting to express its undivided support for the president. So far Trump's presidential campaign is raised more than thirty million dollars in the first quarter of two thousand nineteen and has more than forty million dollars on hand. So why is William Weld trying to unseat the president given what appears to be nearly impossible odds. I really think if we have six more years of the same stuff we've had out of the White House the last two years that would be a political tragedy, and I would fear for the Republic. So I would be ashamed of myself. If I didn't raise my hand and run says, the president is disrespectful of some of the very basic tenets of the job in my opinion. And I was a prosecutor for quite a while. He has difficulty conforming his conduct to the requirements of law. That's a that's a serious matter in the Oval Office. And he says Trump runs roughshod over some of the very basic norms of American life. Now, what we have now is the president who mocks the rule of law. I spent seven years in the Justice department, try to keep the politics out of law enforcement. He's trying to put it in a president. Who says we don't need a free press? Meanwhile, a group of never Trump Republicans led by weekly standard founder Bill Kristol have been discussing primary challenger against Trump. But do not view well as their top recruit. Other Republicans say they remain hopeful. There will be some promising members of their party who might consider jumping into the primary race against Trump. They cite former Ohio governor, John casick and current Maryland, governor, Larry HOGAN as possible recruits. For his part. William Weld says if he does not win the nomination he will not run as an independent in the general election. He also says he will not support Trump. Linda Kenyon, Washington lift has pulled its four higher electric bikes from the streets of New York, San Francisco and Washington DC correspondent Scott Carr tells us why this after some writers reported as us with the brakes on the four rent electric, powered bicycles stronger than expected breaking force on the front wheel was the complaint lift says in a blog post out of an abundance of caution. They're removing about three thousand of the pedal assist bikes from service, replacing them with regular bikes altogether lift operates a mix of about twenty thousand electric and regular bikes in the three cities lift which went public in March became the largest bike share operator in the nation last year, expanding its four hire bikes to Chicago, Boston and Portland in addition to ride sharing and bikes the companies expanded into carpooling and scooter rentals. I'm Scott Carr yesterday. Baseball fans Sela. Rated Jackie Robinson day. A new diversity report released by the league finds the sport is about where it was last year when it comes to hiring minorities and women correspondent John Stolnis has more. The report says the biggest area of concern is with the front offices of individual teams overall the score for racial. Hiring was outstanding. An a minus in the institute for diversity and ethics in sports report card that was up a point from last year. However, the great for hiring women dropped a point to a seventy a c overall the score this year of seventy nine was unchanged from year ago, which is a b minus. The Boston Red Sox led the league with ten women in vice president positions are higher while the San Francisco Giants were next with eight. According to the study, I'm Johnstone's Westwood One daily news for April sixteenth twenty nineteen. I'm John trout.

President Trump president Paris William Weld Trump White House Notre Dame cathedral Jim Rupe John trout Justice department White House Washington Massachusetts Trump Bob Costantini Linda Kenyon Sarah Sanders Republican National Committee France vice president Republican party
Can't Stop Lamar Jackson? Hire an Impersonator.

ESPN Daily

21:49 min | 1 year ago

Can't Stop Lamar Jackson? Hire an Impersonator.

"It feels like those that are playing in for the first time pretty much the reaction to the same every single time. You hear these guys shower. Praise and Lamar Jackson explosive. Guy On film L. Dynamic runner and then after the game they're like dude. I had no idea we completely miscalculated. Just how dynamic of a player he is. There are some things that just can't be duplicated fingerprints snowflakes Marvin Gaye rendition of the national anthem at the nineteen eighty three NBA all star game. Now there's another thing on the list. The freakish combination of skill smarts and athleticism possessed assessed by Ravens quarterback Lamar Jackson today. ESPN's Ravens reporter. Jamison Hensley breaks down the ways in which Lamar's opponents have tried need to find players who can replicate his talents as they prepare to face the NFL's deadliest weapon. I mean at times it's Wednesday January very eighth this is espn daily presented by Dell. Small Business. Jason I'm I'm doing better than Dean pees the Titans Defensive Coordinator because I do not have to game plan for Lamar Jackson all season long. James and we've been talking about how difficult it it is to stop this ravens offense. How teams are efforting to suit against him? But that process begins at the start of every week I for these. NFL teams. They tried to put a plan and they try to replicate the offense with their scout team. Can you explain why that's so difficult. Yeah Yeah it's a complicated answer for a lot of teams and it starts with that. The rains have so many different personnel groupings. They can go three wide. They can go empty backfield or they they can put in three tight ends and fullback in just muscle up against you then you also have to contend with the various motions. No no team in the. NFL runs more pre-start emotions than the Baltimore Ravens and then when the ball snapped you have to find the ball once you actually find where the ball is Kinda termine where it is going. If it is in the hands of Lamar Jackson. Well then good luck with that because he is the fastest player on this field. And if you're one on one against him he fake you out and then you become you know a highlight on sportscenter for the whole night. So yeah there's a lot of things to contend with but it really boils down with nobody can really mimic Lamar Jackson athleticism. The first part of what you described the personnel groupings. The Pre snap deception all of that. Those are things coaches are responsible for instilling their players. But the more Jackson side of it seems to me to be very difficult to prepare for. What have some teams done? Well first they kind of look at their scout team and they're like okay can their quarterback that they have on the scout team or their third quarterback on the roster. Can they mimic what Lamar Jackson or even get into into the realm of what Lamar Jackson can do. And for the most part it's no and so then they go okay. Who's the best athlete on the Scout Team? And a lot of times it could be a wide receiver. It can be a returner. You've seen teams resort to a former quarterback in the alliance of American football. They've gone onto your former college. quarterbacks run kind of the wildcat and they've even resorted to calling an ice fisherman in South Dakota wait an ice fisherman is his name is Taryn Christian and he formerly played quarterback at South Dakota state. Home whom of the Jack Rowell's quarterback keep after the banker rattle busy to the External Christian. The all time leader for South Dakota go to St doubt total offense and it's six nothing favor of the. Why did they call him in particular? Well I mean he does have speed four five at his pro day. He spent some time in training camp with the cowboys. He was quickly out of leak. He went back to Sioux Falls. But he's an avid outdoorsman store's been he likes ice fishing he likes duck hunting and then out of the blue he gets a call from Mike Tomlin just few days for the steelers had their first game. Mm Against Lamar Jackson in the Ravens back in early October it was actually in my haircut called aspect this morning. Got here about ten minutes. Greg started got changed in Got US I explain to you what they were looking for you. This week you Scout team stuff You know mobile quarterback playing the Ravens. So Lamar Mark Jackson just running around a little bit slinging things on on Scott team so far. How did he handle playing Lamar? He actually did a pretty good job. I mean they they weren't gonNA put Devlin Duck. Hodges out there so I guess they were trying to find another doctor so they eh. They went and they brought in Tehran and he kind of anticipated was going to be just a short stint that he was going to be there. Lamar Jackson for the week. The players in the locker room almost conceded that because many of referred to him as Lamar. Not Taryn Chris. So yeah he took it all in stride overall. He did a pretty good job. Because is in that game. It was The Ravens won in overtime against the steelers. But Lamar Jackson. He threw three interceptions. He did turn it on at the end to to pull out the victory but it will rank as one of Lamar's worse games of the season Games in as you're telling me about him. I'm thinking of a hunter named Brock Miller who is left-footed and told me once that he would get signed repeatedly throughout the season by NFL teams. Who are about to play the Patriots because they always have left footed punters hunters? Did that end up happening with Christian. No no he didn't get another call and after just two days after the steelers game he did get cut cut probably had thoughts of. Hey maybe he could be the Lamar standing for a lot of these teams. He did not get a call. Did Not get signed for the rest of the regular season and rate great now he got signed to the XFL and he is trying to make that league properly. Lamar's worst game of the season was the first game against the browns round where they lost. The browns coordinator Steve wilks was asked about how he was preparing for the game. And this is what he had to say. Our tax plan men who Dania Guess But the browns actually use matt got into prepare for Lamar. I don't actually think so. But I mean as everything with the Cleveland browns you cannot say definitively no but coach Freddie Kitchens. At that time I said in a press conference they used a few guys to Mimic Lamar with a couple of different guys playing Odell played him scouting quarterback. You just don't believe me. I know people with the browns thought. They weren't using Odell Beckham Junior enough but obviously they were maybe not as much as a wide receiver but they were using him in practice to Mimic Lamar Jackson. And you could tell I mean. He's an athletic guy out there making those one handed catches but I think really the talent especially the skill set would really translate to Lamar Jackson so the Ravens have played some pretty pretty good defenses with very good coaches in November. They went up against New England and of course bill. Belichick is the master of game planning. And he he had this to say about Lamar. Before the game to simulate the speed with which they execute the problem of course on another quarterback in the league like this how do you get one jamison. What can teams do win? They don't have have a single player with a skill. Set that replicates Lamar. It's funny because the best scout team quarterback that anyone could have for Lamar is actually the Ravens and that Robert Griffin the third so Knowing we did they signed him in the off season because he can run this ravens offense in case something would happen to Lamar but they also took away from other teams a guy that could probably replicate Lamar Jackson best in in in their practices. You it's almost like almost monopolized the dual threat quarterback position and you mentioned Bill Belichick. I try to ask ask him you. Who are you gonNA play Lamar Jackson in your scout team? You know. He didn't disclose who would be but obviously did not work wherever they chose because the rains. Let's put up thirty seven points against that Bill Belichick defense that a lot of people thought was going to be a very historic one at the time Coming up can the Titans actually learn anything from Amar Jackson's playoff defeat last year Espn daily we tell the stories of the world's greatest teams coach Bill Championship teams with players uniquely qualified for the roles. That's why you need indeed for Your Business. Indeed provides tools like skills tests to help candidates. Show the perfect hire for you post a job at indeed indeed dot com slash. ESPN daily and try skills tests for free that's indeed dot com slash. ESPN daily terms conditions. Exclusions apply apply as teams have resorted to desperate measures to prepare how they failed. Yeah it's funny. 'cause they do they they try their hardest to find somebody who is fast enough somebody who can also at least throw the ball a little. Oh Bet to give their defense good looks the bengals. They had a scout team wide receiver. Trenton Irwin and and he was going out to practice and they go. You know your your Lamar Jackson today and so the kind of throat Adam. A little bit and didn't really last long. He got out there he he said about three or four plays. He tried emotion one of the wide receivers to do like a jet sweep. He called for the snap too early. The snap hit the wide receiver her and they said. Okay Trenton. You're you're no longer Lamar Jackson. That's kind of precision part of it. Where the Ravens when they snapped the ball I it's they always had these guys moving and it's sometimes very close to the ball okay? You're watching the guys in motion but you're trying to locate the ball. It's very difficult difficult to do that. In Trenton Irwin found that out firsthand. They threw Andy Dalton in his place. And I'm going to guess that Andy Dalton this year it was probably the slowest of the march accent. Mimics out there. What about the bills? Didn't they have a little bit of inside information on the more they they they used Ray Ray McLeod and he has a very interesting connection and back story with Lamar Jackson. In McLeod's roommate at Clemson was Oakland. Raiders cornerback Trayvon Molin. Who is Jackson's cousin? So trying to keep it in in the family a little bit. Also McLeod's background. He ran the forty yard dash in four point five seconds. He also quarterback the read option offense in high school you saw throughout the week. The Bills Defenders Really Complement McLeod for. We're giving them a good look and it really turned out in the game. Because the bills held Lamar Jackson to forty yards rushing and that's that's his lowest output on the grounds outside of that first game against Miami when he threw five touchdowns didn't really even try to run the ball so I thought the bills defense contained Lamar Jackson at least running better than anybody else else this season. I think my favorite scout team quarterback to play Lamar. This season has been John. Wolford the rams practice squatter wake AAC forced Alan by the way. They beat Lamar Jackson and Louisville in college. Now when it was revealed that he was going to be Lamar. It was a bit derided. Here's what coach Sean. mcvay had to say. John do a great job for us and we'll see if he's got he'd found some extra speed tweet. This week I'd like to say that's unfair because I actually called the Rams preseason games and John Wolford can scoot right. He actually had an amazing amazing three cone. Time unfortunately didn't work out so well for the rams. No the ravens routed. Those rams forty five to six on Monday night and I like to call that allows Lamar's Hollywood moment you're playing in the coliseum. You see the Hollywood sign in the background. You the first player in Monday night. Football to make his debut. And throw five touchdown touchdown passes to magical. I think that was the night when everyone kind of said you know what Lamar Jackson is winning the MVP right now. Afterwards Eric. Weddell the Ram safety who used to play for the Ravens was asked about poor. John Wolford efforts on the scout team whether whether they help the defense and this is what he had to say. Well Yeah I mean. I don't know what you guys keep thinking. He ran the scout team for us. You can't emulate it are you gonNA practice it. Lamar's Mars the fastest guy on the field. I kid you not like I wouldn't let you guys go half the time. I didn't know who had the ball until they were getting through line. I had to go tackle. Comb the Rams Riesling let their defensive coordinator Wade Phillips go now Wade as you know is a legend around this league bill. Belichick is a legend. Perhaps the greatest defensive coach in. NFL history. What does it say about Lamar that those two coordinators couldn't figure out a way to stop him? Yeah I think it just shows that Lamar Jackson is just a generational talent. Winning kind came into the League. People said Oh could he be the next Michael Vic and I think early last year. And maybe we're only the season you could say. Okay Yeah you you can compare him to that. But I mean he has shattered vicks rushing rushing record he is thrown more touchdown passes than Vikas ever thrown in a CD. So more passing yards. I don't think that comparison even holds up right now now to have a player who can run and throw the ball like Lamar Jackson. That's just something that the league just hasn't seen you mentioned that during being in the style in the week preparing coaches have to get their defense is ready for all of the various right but watching the Mar- play sometimes you see linebackers. Packers make the correct read and he's still beats them. It's like a choose your own adventure book where every option leads to a horrible death. There's no right answer her. It is and and that's the thing I mean. I think turn Matthew said earlier this year when you go against Lamar Jackson. It's almost you have to be a little a bit more patient and it's hard to do that in the open field against him but you don't want to go and attack because he always has a counter move. It's almost almost. You have to wait for him to make his move and then react to him so this weekend in the divisional round the Ravens will be hosting the Tennessee. NFC Titans Lamar's second postseason game. Jamieson you remember. The first one didn't go so well Baltimore lost to the chargers who notoriously Ashley defended the Ravens with seven defensive backs on the field mostly because the chargers were so banged up and until the fourth quarter. The Ravens Office. Really couldn't get much going. Do you think the titans might try to replicate that. In some way I think it will be a little difficult and the reason. I say that it is one big difference from last year's playoff game to this year is Lamar Jackson. He's just become a better passer. And in that chargers game he completed just three passes asses in the first three quarters at one point in the second half he had zero point zero passer rating. He's obviously improved. In that regard the other aspect they got to remember is is that the rains added Mark Ingram agents. He was their their number one target in free agency. They that's the guy that they said. Entering this off season. They wanted and the reason they wanted him so badly was because he brings just that tenacious physical aspect to the running game in between the tackles. And if you try to put seven seven defensive backs with Mark Ingram runs. He's GonNa run all over you so I would be very hesitant for any defense to use that strategy against Moore Jackson Timpson. You've watched as much. Lamar Jackson has anyone at this point. What would you do? It's because it's an impossible question clearly but what would you do to stop him. The only way you can beat. Lamar Jackson Jackson is to get a lead warning. And I don't know if that really answers the question but you need to jump out and get a lead and that is very difficult to do because the ravens are so good good in scripting their plays and that's why they have outscore teams by so much in that first word they rarely rarely trail in that first first half but if a team can jump out even to scores or seventeen to nothing what you do. Is You force Lamar Jackson into become more predictable. And then in your mind you're going. Okay Lamar Jackson is going to have to throw the ball and you kinda take away the running element a little bit but you also have to score against the Ravens Defense and the rains defense number four in the league their top scorer against as well so everybody guys you heard it here first. I the way to stop the mark. Jackson is to outscore. Thanks Jason Thank you and coming up with the latest. NFL coaching hires. Tell us about the state of diversity leak New Year new budgets. Every small business has unique needs when you partner with a Dell Small Business Technology advisor you get real time tailored advice you'll even give you a free audit on your servers and storage devices to develop a custom solution solution to help improve your company's productivity plus right now upgrade to windows ten and get up to forty five percent off select business computers with Intel core processors officers to speak with Adele adviser call eight seven seven by Dell. That's eight seven seven by Dell. Here's here's another story. I want you to know on Tuesday to. NFL teams announced that they had picked their next head coach. The Carolina Panthers Selected Baylor head coach map rule and the giants who reportedly also going after roll with Patriots Wide Receiver coach. Joe Judge a scoop. All fans process the news and and in some cases I'm guessing learned that judge exists a number of analysts for players and fans pointed out that after these latest hires. Just three of the leaks. Six head coaches Pittsburgh's Mike Tomlin allies Anthony Lynn. In Miami's Brian Flores are black as opposed to seventy percent of the players. Now there's at least one spot open. The Cleveland. Browns haven't announced replacement for fired head coach Freddie Kitchens yet but it's evident that after the ranks of non white head coaches grew for years. Here's hitting eight not too long ago. They've since rapidly declined this fall. Richard Lap tick the director of the Institute for Diversity and Ethics in sport. Publishes Publishes Annual Report on the issue and gave the NFL its lowest grade since he started collecting data fifteen years ago. Now I imagine there are people who are hearing this and saying to themselves teams should be allowed to hire the best possible candidates and I absolutely agree but I'm not sure that's happening four years ago. Oh I wrote about a study from professors at Georgetown. George Washington emery in Iowa state who found that white position coaches in assistance or more than twice as likely to be promoted to coordinator roles regardless of their background given that many of the coaches promoted since then have a market lack of experience rule for example spent very little time in the NFL and judge was most recently a position coach. I would be surprised if that's changed now. This doesn't mean. NFL teams are actively seeking seeking to discriminate against qualified candidates. The reasons for these things as is the case in fields outside of sports are insidiously complex in football all the roots of the problem can be traced to college where the numbers aren't much better or even lowest levels of the sport networks also play a role and so do trends. NFL teams. These are more likely than ever to hire offensive minded head coaches and there were just two black offensive coordinators. This season one of him the chiefs Eric. The enemy would seem to merit narrative closer. Look from Cleveland. But just because the factors behind the absence of diversity at the league's highest levels can be difficult to untangle doesn't mean we shouldn't try and above all acknowledged that the gap exists and this has been E._s._p._N.. Daily I'll talk to you tomorrow.

Lamar Jackson Jackson Lamar Ravens Lamar Jackson NFL Lamar Mark Jackson League Bill Belichick Titans Baltimore Ravens Jackson Browns ESPN Espn Freddie Kitchens Mike Tomlin Jamison Hensley Moore Jackson Timpson Dell John Wolford
Collusion Concerns

Outside the Lines

26:00 min | 1 year ago

Collusion Concerns

"If you're hiring with indeed you can post a job in minutes set up screener questions then. Zero in on your short list of qualified candidates using an online dashboard get started at indeed dot com slash outside the union. Believe there have been collusive efforts. They do have to take a look at this. Make sure that whatever's happening right now protects the most players populace gave him an opening and now someone is going to run with it and it may cost says the larger issue here regarding minority hiring and opportunity teams jeans that are really genuinely want process. There's just not this pool of candidates in those traditional spots cold from conduct that kind of hiring hiring pulled in the driveway as what material as our breaking it against one town has gone through. What this town ass wide is a game still matter because paradise is a football town it Welcome to outside the lines. I'm Tissue Thomson Today. We're talking about the lack of color among the NFL's top decision makers and this stunning running performance of a high school football team that literally lost everything except the turf they play on but first our big story it was this time last week. Washington nationals. Were celebrating their first world series winning club history but while the nets were showing off their shiny new trophy the rest of MLB was plotting out which players. Here's they WANNA snatch up in free agency the likely top three free agents all appeared in the world series nationals Third Baseman Anthony Rin. Don't in Pitcher Stephen Even Strasburg as well as Houston Astros Pitcher Garrett Cole but there are rules about how much a team can talk to another team about potential trades and on Monday Atlanta braves general manager. Alex topless made a controversial comment during a conference call with the media every day. You get more information he said and we've had time connect with twenty seven of the clubs. Obviously the Astros and the nationals being in the world series they were tied up but we had a chance to get a sense of what the other clubs are going to look to do free agency who might be available in traits last night. MLB Players Association Executive Director. Tony Clark put out a statement. Alleging teams may have engaged in collusion. The statements made by braves. GM Alex Anthopoulos call into question. The integrity of the entire free agent system clerk. Clark wrote that clear description of club. Coordination is egregious and we've launched an immediate investigation looking into the matter joining. CBS now is the Guru of all things baseball ESPN MLB insider. Jeff Passan Jeff. Thank you first of all for being here. I think the first question for folks who don't follow free agency as closely as you do is. What are the rules about what teams can and cannot say to each other right now? Well there's no explicit rule saying you can say this you can say that you can say one thing you can say another. There is however in the collective bargaining agreement article twenty section e number one in the last sentence that says player shall not act in concert with other players and clubs shall not act in concert with other clubs and what that essentially means is. You cannot collude. Now that is a broadly interpretive statement and whatever and arbitration panel if this ever reaches a grievance is what the actual actual answer to. This question is and what the Union did yesterday by saying out loud and quite vociferously that. MLB teams are essentially coordinating with one. Another was alleging publicly which they do not do that. They are breaking this by law. Aw in the collective bargaining agreement so what was it in Anthopoulos his statement specifically that alarm the Players Association. What was the words that he used that they were concerned concerned about? The problem was that they were that he used the words free agency and he used them. If you go back and look at the whole context text the quote. He used them these v the trade market now next week. The general manager's meetings are happening in Scottsdale and in preparation for the general managers meetings every year. If you are a good and worthwhile general manager you call your counterparts and try to get a sense of what their off-season free agent plans and trade plans are going to look like so you can see who you might be able to match up with and might be able to talk with without wasting your time now. During the course of these conversations tissue and I will say these conversations in these types of conversations have have been going on for decades. Now you may say hey. I need a third baseman if I can't trade for third Baseman I'M GONNA go after one in free agency see what the MLB PA is saying is that that is not okay and this is something that's going to be really difficult to argue but at the same time the union is looking for anything in this burgeoning war that it has with Major League Baseball. So how does an investigation. Jason like this actually take place. Can it hold up free agency. Yeah I don't know that it's going to hold up free agency and that's an important point here here because all of this goes back tissue to free agency. Free Agency has not been the same over the last three years since the most recent collective bargaining agreement admit that it was in the past and because of that the union is looking to find somewhere to fight. It's looking to find somewhere to plant it's flag and say we're doing the work for the players now. The work in the investigation is going to mean asking Major League Baseball for evidence for discovery. And so you know we're not sure if mlb going to comply with these things it could send documents over. It might say no. This is all an overreach. This is all entirely unnecessary this area. And if that's the case then the union would file a grievance looking for documents so this is just the beginning of something that is going to be lasting for quite a wile. I think I mean the collective bargaining agreements not up until the twenty twenty one season This is a war that's just started. Well Jeff thank you so much for making time for us. Because I know you're busy trying to figure out what's going on behind the scenes appreciate it. Thanks to ship. Every year. The Institute for Diversity and Ethics in sports at the University of Central Florida puts out a racial engender report card and this year the results for the NFL or dramatic. The league had a fifteen year low for the number. We're of people of color holding the most important jobs. The report noted eight of the thirty two. NFL head coaches at the start of last season. Where people of color a quarter of the available jobs this season there are only four with just one new hire and among those doing the hiring as recently as twenty fourteen twenty four percent of NFL general general managers or directors of player personnel? Were people of Color. That number has plummeted to just to Doug Williams senior VP of player personnel for Washington. And Chris Greer the general manager of the Miami Dolphins joining us now from Washington. DC Rod graves a longtime football exact. Who recently really became the executive director of the Fritz Pollard? Alliance a nonprofit dedicated to promoting better diversity in the NFL Rod. Thank you so much for joining us. The big question is what was your initial reaction when you saw this report. Well first of all Tisch. Thanks for having me on. My initial reaction is supports the fact that those of us who follow these types of reports have believed all the time that gains aren't sustainable ainable unless you have racial and gender diversity in the C. Suite. You have to have people there who are very committed and interested and intentional tunnel about diversity and that to me is where the numbers are lacking and hopefully we can focus on improving the numbers in that particular uh-huh area which finding in particular really stands out to you about this year's report. What number really spoke to you? Well well you know. Obviously the focus has been a great deal on Head coaches and GM and the slide that the NFL has taken over the last couple years with respect to those positions. But I also sense that. There's a lack of diversity strategy at the club level we've seen gains in the. NFL office is largely credited. Roger Goodell for keeping this issue in front of the owners honors the outstanding leadership provided by Troy Vincent and others at the League office. But I think the the the opportunities to really advanced diversity are in the hands of owners and that's where we're not seeing the commitment that needs to take place in order for diversity to really be sustainable so the NFL has what's called the Rooney rule which requires teams to interview people of Color for Head coaching and senior front office jobs. These are some of the lowest numbers we've seen since the advent of the Rooney rule in two thousand and three. So is the Rooney rule. Even working well let me address address that because I think that the expectations for the Rooney rule are misplaced to some degree. I remember a period of time. When people of color struggled to get to the interview table I think the Rooney rule has done a significant job and benefit in terms of at least ensuring that minority representation is is going to be had at the end of you table? The Rooney rule is not responsible for the results. The decision makers are but I applaud the NFL for for committing to a Rooney rule. And we see that the Rooney rule itself is is being adopted in other industries across corporate America effective it has great benefits not only for the employer but also all the employees and. I think that the Rooney rule is something that needs to Stan and vouch for its effectiveness Rod. I I can't thank you enough for making time for us. We really appreciate it. We know you there in DC fighting the fight so really appreciate you being here. But they lost their homes their cars nearly their entire town but they still had their field coming up. The extraordinary story of the Paradise High School Football Team Prescription required online physician consultation and only available if the physician determines prescriptions appropriate. See website for full details information. One of the scariest things that can happen to a guy is that first morning you wake up you look in the mirror and you start to realize you're going thin up top to out of every three. Three guys are going to start losing their hair by the age of thirty five thirty five. You're still a young dude at that point you're GonNa Start Losing your hair then think about it a year from now. It's all gone in. Everybody used to think as soon as you start losing your hair. That's it. It's genetics. It's father time and there's nothing you can do about it. Well guess what that's wrong for him. Dot Com is a one stop shopper hair loss skin care and sexual wellness for men. Prescription solutions backed by science written by a doctor and delivered to your door. Thanks to science baldness can be optional. Good a forums dot com slash. ESPN right now. It gets started for just five bucks while supplies last. This would cost hundreds if you went to the doctor or pharmacy. So go to four hymns DOT COM flesh. ESPN THAT'S F. O.. R. H. I. M. S. dot com slash. ESPN FOUR HYMNS DOT COM SLASH ESPN California's wildfire season and typically starts in October. which when you think about it is right? In the middle of football season is multiple fires continue to burn throughout the state. It's hard not to recall last year campfire which swept through the mountain town of Paradise California. That fire killed eighty five people in destroyed more than eighteen thousand structures. There's but somehow spared paradise high school's football field e sixties. Tom Rinaldi spent ten months. Following the Paradise Bob Cats on their journey to rebuild and and reclaim their home turfs polling driveway. That's what made it real and just heartbreak you know. It was devastating it. It was just like as heartbreaking gets As you pull up into it it's it comes over here and it's very heavy when you see everything thing that your family has built and collected Trista pile of all twenty seven thousand residents of Paradise were displaced by the Campfire due to health. Health and safety concerns. No one was allowed to return to paradise in January when school resumed classes were held in Chico nineteen eighteen miles away enrollment. Once nearly one thousand students fell by more than half. Where are you going to school? Career warehouse next to the airport. It sounds crazy like I'm talking crazy. But that's really where our school is. And we're grateful for Lucas. Hartley began taking classes online online allowing him to work forty hours a week at an auto salvage yard to help this family pay rent on part four four months ago. I was just a high school kid to school every single day and now it's like after work a fulltime job uh take online classes and stuff because things are just different now one. What keeps you going football? I guess it's not too much you know for all that was lost on November eight th two thousand eighteen. One piece of paradise remained virtually untouched. Here we are at our stadium mm-hmm and it looks pretty normal. You could see some burning right over here. That hill fire went around over there. By the burn on the Trees Somehow Paradise High in its home field were intact the prospects for or a football season in twenty nine thousand nine. How do you describe them? We're going to have one. Why why does it matter? I want to make sure that the kids that come to our school have football program that they can be proud out of and so the boys from paradise would begin their honesty hoping to reach the new season. We have a waitress room the stuff. There isn't very very good but we still use it training in the warehouse and on a field outside Zayn. They started with just twenty two varsity players. This journey that we're going to go on. We're not going out there for no participation awards. Their goal to be able to play their opening game in paradise three weeks before we're opening night the team now forty strong on varsity gathered as camp concluded. There's been a lot of changes a lot of things going on. But we'RE GONNA ROCK DOC people and if we're a little bit angry about our situation all the better captain. Lucas hardly addressed team. I just wanted to say this. Has Been like super heartbreaking for me because last year I thought after the fire and everything that it was going to be the last season played for Paradise I and believe it or not. Aw made me so happy to not had an opportunity to come out here and play with you guys Nine month's two weeks and one day. After their season was ended by the Campfire the boys from paradise returned to their field to that patch of soil. They call home. They played for more than a win. They wait for a chance to show the five thousand in attendance. What had risen from the ashes Harley number twenty before say you don't miss something till it's gone and then you miss like how I I love that community with everything. The town has gone through what this town is. Why does it gain still matter because paradise is a football town years would? Would I pray for you tonight that you started a healing. That's going to continue through the rest of the season. Doggone it you guys you've been through so much. This feels great and despite all the obstacles. The Bob Cats went undefeated. This season Jeremy Shat just caught up with Paradise Paradise head coach Rick Prince with everything. That's happened in the last few weeks. Rick you just completed perfect regular season. Ten Ino- you've got the playoffs coming up next week. What was it like as the season progressed from the beginning when you guys came together up to this point now one of the best things was how pulled our community together? Our first game ten weeks ago we had almost six thousand people that are game and right now in paradise there's less than two thousand residents so we just continued to build on. That just took one game at a time because because we're not in a league. We knew we had to go undefeated just to make the playoffs and the kids did it. I'm very proud of under so So much going on in their lives outside the football that to have them on the field and focus like this was amazing. And I'm very proud of him. I think it's fifteen years since your last undefeated regular season sooner or paradise is last undefeated regular season. You mentioned the resiliency of your group of kids those players. What does it say about them that they they perform form the way they did this season? So far there's only three of our players. It live in paradise. The rest of them are travelling at least thirty minutes minutes to get here so every day. They're they're traveling to school. figure out how they're gonNA eat and then they gotta do school and then we have a three hour practice so the demand a and they're great but you can see it in their eyes when they hit the field. It's all about football. And they're serious about their commitment to their teammates and to making Mrs Successful Year challenging. Of course not only for them but for you is well what were some of those challenges. Mine mine home did not burn down. So I'm wondering if you that it didn't happen too but it still took me eight months to get back into the house just being displaced next for that long was top personally but I just kept thinking. How so many more had it worse? And then to the rebuild. The team we started with twenty twenty two players last semester and then as we started in the summer kids just kept coming back and right now. Our school has under three hundred boys. He's an almost one hundred football players. What you have achieved this season has been so inspiring to so many people not just those has devastated by the fires around Paradise but elsewhere? What was it like for your team and for yourself last few weeks as we saw so many other wildfires wildfires breaking out in California? I just think these kids have been through settlement hutch that when something else comes into their lives they just about had it a lot of kids deal with in different ways some are emotional about it some just bury it and try not to think about it. So that's one positive thing that football is brought for them. One Kid said I wanNA forget all about what's going on and just let me practice but our hearts go out to all those fires. We certainly understand what they're going through. What's IT GONNA be like as you guys head to the playoffs? And there's even more at stake winner go home so we have to play our best right now at the end here but I know that will compete with whoever we play in the playoffs. You've seen that kind of character obviously from your team from your players this past season. I've seen a real hunger. You're the real desire to prove themselves and honestly a little bit anger just some built up built up tension that they bad because of all this it is difficult. It is difficult for them to beat here and we ask a lot of them and they have come through. Their parents have come through and we've had tremendous community support. I'm just so proud of him for being as tough as they are about it. Rick thank you for your time and good luck in the playoffs. Thanks for having me for much more on the journey of coach Princess Team Checkout Essex Useful Feature Presentation Paradise from the ashes on on. ESPN plus. We'll be right back. 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Paradise football NFL ESPN MLB Union general manager paradise high school MLB Players Association Jeff Passan Jeff Baseball GM Washington nationals Astros Tony Clark braves Rooney Paradise Paradise Rick Prince
Moving Forward Part 4: Breaking Down Barriers to Entry  Work In Sports podcast

The Work in Sports Podcast - Insider Advice for Sports Careers

52:47 min | 3 months ago

Moving Forward Part 4: Breaking Down Barriers to Entry Work In Sports podcast

"The work in sports podcast moving forward is brought to you by empowered. This is the most important election of our time and let's be honest voting during a pandemic is a little cash in right now. There's so much misinformation out there aimed towards making you believe your vote doesn't matter. It's called voter suppression. And we need to stop it your vote does matter. What is the most important responsibilities of citizens do not give up that power or that right getting engaged informed and ready to vote all with one app called empowered e m p l a w r d I've used it. I learned a lot it made me feel more confident to this entire process. I got my ballot last week. I filled it out and dropped it off in an official ballot box office. I'm feeling good. Pennsylvania is ready to rock. All these top athletes are out there supporting this great app. It makes it easier for you to get all the information you need to vote. So please get involved download the app. And get empowered empowered e m p r d. June 2014 just six years wage the Atlanta Hawks finished their season 38 and 44 and were bounced in the first round of the playoffs their general manager of the time former NBA player. Danny Ferry was in a conference call with a team owners and organizational stakeholders outlining his offseason plans and possible Targets in free agency Luol Deng was a free agent Ferry during the call described as a player who quote has a little African in him and quote a guy who would have a nice store out front and so you counterfeit stuff out of the back. The comments became public after being leaked very claimed. He was only reading comments from a Scouting Report compiled by someone else the team concluded off their own commissioned investigation that fairies remarks did not include offensive language and were not motivated by racial or ethnic animus. You can judge that for yourself with or without a commissioned investigation, but that wasn't the end of the Hawks problems at the same time. The franchise is controlling owner Bruce Levinson reported that he sent out a racist email two months earlier criticizing the Hawks predominantly African-American fanbase. The email was sent to Ferry and a detailed Levinson's belief that box fan base was quote overwhelmingly black and the black people scared away whites from attending games. Levenson also wrote that the Hawks games were attended by a 70% black crowd with predominantly black cheerleaders hip-hop used music 90% black patrons at the Arenas bars and fewer farmer and Sons had the games. He added the concert to the games were mostly hip-hop or gospel the subtracting more African American fans. Levenson sold his interest in the Hawks upon revealing his email to the NBA. October 7th 2014 just a few months later from all of this Hawks CEO Steve. Koonin seeing a need for change in his organization post a job listing out for chief diversity and inclusion officer. We often think roles and diversity and inclusion are the norm in sports that there are people and staff dedicated to the process of equality and workplace culture hiring practices benefits deeper cultural awareness education sensitivity. And that these people in these roles have always been there guiding the ship of cultural Equity. But when Steve koonin and the Atlanta Hawks hired sings thought to be the chief diversity and inclusion officer in the fall of 2014. She was the first in the NBA amazingly wincing Shah left the Hawks in 2019 to join Starbucks as their Global Chief inclusion and diversity officer. She was also the first to hold that role at Starbucks. Five years ago diversity and inclusion roles didn't really exist in sports. And while it is important to know the diversity officers and dni executives are now being included in every Sports organizations corporations. Sure the fact it took this long and this big of a problem to make it happen is sad the Hawks in case you were wondering during Shahs rain turned their image around in the Atlantic Community. They created all staff service days with six service projects in the city accumulating a thousand combined hours of community service. They had a float in the Atlanta pride festival current and former players and employees riding on the float and throwing mm basketballs to the crowd with pride and Hawks logos on them. They became an organization focused on fairness equity and inclusion. I won't list all the actions they have taken to change their image, but suffice has to say they are all meaningful. This is a great turnaround story. We love stories where characters find a new truth and a reformed and changed. They go through an evolution. These types of stories have always been very popular in our culture. But what if this happened at a smaller lesser profile team or League or Sports connected organization? If a minor league baseball teams GM talks about a player in the same fashion, Danny Ferry did it doesn't become national news. It doesn't spark change. It doesn't Inspire introspection. It just happens and it likely happens again and again and again the human mind likes to come to conclusions job done problem solved everything's better because that is easier than acknowledging there is still great work I do. When we hear and read about Positive Growth like in the Hawks organization, we clamor to say problem-solve mission accomplished, but it isn't. Four years ago in Ohio juvenile court Mitchell Miller. Remember that name Mitchell Miller admitted to bullying an African-American classmate with developmental disabilities. Miller called the young black boy the n-word called him brownie repeatedly hit him and trust me. This is hard for me to even say out loud tricked the developmentally disabled young black boy into licking a candy pop that Miller and another classmate had wiped in a bathroom. Urinal. This isn't an accusation or alleged because I initially lying to school officials about his involvement Miller and the other boy admitted to the misdemeanors primarily because there was video of the incidents a quote from the victim's mother it off. The video was absolutely brutal had Mitchell not plead guilty. The video would have been released. It would have been so much worse on Mitchell because of the brutality to our son. He's smashing his head against a brick wall. Both boys involved were sentenced to twenty-five hours of community service were ordered to write an apology participate in counseling and pay court costs according again to the mother of the the victim the other boy not named Mitchell Miller went further than the court-mandated letter of apology. He personally apologized to their son and broke down in tears while doing so Miller did not he never personally apologized just sent the court-mandated letter checked the box. He did the bare minimum of what the court manage it. In the 2020 NHL draft held just a few weeks ago the Arizona Coyotes drafted Mitchell Miller in the fourth round. We just aren't there yet. This is the final episode of are moving forward podcast series to join me in today's conversation about barriers to entry in the sports industry for minorities off. Please join me in welcoming Jose Lopez, Brittany Barber and Brandon Lewis. So Jose, let's kick it off with you. Tell us a little bit about yourself. Hi Jose. I am a recent graduate of the University of South Florida. I am currently with the Tampa Bay Buccaneers as a game customer service representative. And yeah, that's that's me pretty I am a current graduate of the University of Central Florida sports management program. I graduated in the spring of this year. I recently was an intern for the Atlanta Braves spring training but unfortunately got cancelled due to covid-19. Now I am currently working with the University of Miami as a student assistant for their canes central office. Oh, that's Great Britain little bit of your background. Everybody loves name is Brandon Lewis. I am a a recent grad of Johnson Wales University in Charlotte, North Carolina. I'm in currently right now. I am assisting women coaching women's basketball at Belmont wage. College fantastic pretty let's get this off with you. The number one female tennis player in the world thing Amigo Saka is 23 years old. She's not just a force in women's tennis. She's a force in the battle for social justice using your platform to raise awareness Kobe Bryant was a mentor to her and at one point she told Kobe that she wanted to be just like him and he then looked at her and said no be better and even that again now, I've read it a thousand times even saying it now I get the chills again just that moment right I hear this and I also wonder if there isn't a lot of pressure on your generation to keep pushing battle beyond what previous generations have been able to do do you feel that pressure? Yeah. I definitely do but it's not in a negative way. I feel like when I sort of think about especially that quote to be better. I just look at it at this way. I always was taught that you have to be twice as good as aspell. For me I have to be twice as good as my male counterparts. So I feel that that pressure is just a constant reminder that I have to constantly keep pushing and to do better than the generations before me because yes, we've made a lot of strides in diversity inclusion in or just racial tensions in this country as a whole since the song 50s, but you know, we still have a long way to go and if our generation aren't pushed to do better than the previous then the generation after us wage will not have anything to show for it and we almost can you can almost say that we almost let down the Next Generation because we didn't continue the fight that our ancestors have lived basically done their whole lives. So yes, I do feel the pressure, but it's it's just a driving force that continues to keep me in wanting to do better and be better off. And you know get into positions that I never thought I would in the past and just continue to break those barriers will follow up with you on that does when you see something like that when you seen a truck out there at the US Open at this major event going through the championship rounds and every time wearing a different mask does that inspire you do you feel that power off? It definitely does is the fact that she's taking her her platform and using it to bring awareness to things that you know, some people might not even know exactly what's going on. Even though yes, she wore Brianna Taylor a lot of people already know what's going on with regard to Taylor and that the fact that she still needs Justice and the George Floyd and all and Trayvon Martin a lot. Some people might have forgotten about Martin because it happened so long ago, I believe that was sweat 2013. I was a freshman in college when that happened. I remember watching that trial my dorm room. So the fact that she brought home. Now she's bringing that that awareness back because you can't be quiet about these situations anymore. You have to you have to make people uncomfortable in order for a oil change to actually be to be made. Yeah, I totally agree philando Castile many other names in there that needed to be brought back to the Forefront Brandon when I was in college. I'm going back a couple of decades now, I'd hate to date myself, but it's true. Seriously. My whole Focus was on like let's have a good time. I'm going to graduate and get a good job, right? I did not have to worry about too much. It was a pretty simple world for me. I've personally acknowledged my own privilege of thousand times on the show and I'm not here to murder myself into saying like, yeah, I can acknowledge it may be honest about it. But let's really contrast this. What is your world been like the last four years as we've dealt with these massive issues as a society pandemics everything going down. On like how is your world felt in your focus? My world's been, you know, pretty crazy up and down like Britney. Do you have to be twice as good not only, you know just walk out and about and you know your industry but just also walking around from myself just being a young African-American male. There's certain things that I have to think about in certain ways. I have to you know, you know do when I'm in certain situations because everybody just, you know, having a good time and you want to live your life, of course, you're not saying you want to live in fear, but digits are things you have to think about. I like to I heard this analogy in any kind of stuff, you know with me and it's kind of, you know, I'm worth it to light and it's being a you know, a young African-American male not in this world. It's like being left-handed and when trying to use right-handed scissors right A lot of people don't think about it until you're actually put in that situation. So for me personally, you know, like I said going to school and Joshua was in Charlotte North Carolina and being from a Charlotte I was there had when they had the riots here in Charlotte and my dorm is literally in the middle of the city so I can log It off the top of my balcony and I was getting calls and texts from family and friends are talking about are you going out there? I mean part of me was I want to go out there and you know, see what's really happening on the front line, but also another part of me. I want to see another day, right? Like there's certain things. Like I said, you have to really think about and understand that, you know, if you're out there in that situation not only you put in harm to yourself, but somebody else is out there again harm so long, I guess even with the the pandemic and going on and then with you know, their social injustice. It's it's a lot of different things, you know, you think about and I'm pretty sure a lot of people, you know, like I said take go about living your life and by all means I'm not saying dome but just have to be a lot more aware of a lot more cautious out there. In fact, you have to even consider, you know going out and being a part of something as being a risk to your life is is just awful. The work in sports podcast moving forward is brought to you by 26 marketing agency founded by former guests and personal favorite Rashida Gail Rashida. How are you? Hi, Brian. I'm well, thank you so much for doing this. Thank you so much for having me. Well, it's good to talk to you again. I mean our podcast episode we did last year was fantastic and the fans loved it. So tell us a little bit about 26 marketing you went off on your own and the last year was the mission and purpose of your business what your goal so 26 marketing agency is a sports and entertainment agency that maximizes clients Brands and exposure off while creating cultural and meaningful brand collaborations. Essentially. I started this business because I thought were not thought I really felt that the marketing space was changing specifically for Millennials and gen wage. And so we are we're absorbing content from digital platforms and athletes and the influence that they had ten years ago is not the same anymore. We're really looking at personalities. We're looking at individual. Those who can do really well in front of the camera and create content that can reach millions of fans millions of customers Etc. So I thought you know while I was at home is Farm. I just saw a desire to go out and start my own thing and really put my vision to life. And so I created 26 marketing which really hones in on Innovation and Home in on the expansion of the marketing space and taking reign of that and developing what the future will look like. I love the way the marketing is changed for professional athletes need to learn so much more about them as humans. We're getting to understand their voice and their vision for themselves and what they believe in and I personally love that. I love the fact that we're seeing them whereas humans with a voice and a platform than just a commodity so kudos to you for doing that how crazy I mean starting a starting a new agency in this year is is is I commend you it's impressive. How is how is your one dog? You you're one is better than expected. I've read a couple of books that talk about companies netting zero the first three years like it is common for you to struggle in the initial phases of creating a business and I'm just really thankful that I had a book of business prior to forming this entity forming this agency. So we were I was able to bring all of my business over to my new company and really have something a foundation there. So the business has gone really. Well. I have a staff of about ten individuals who are amazing people. I have a partner College Jacobson who is literally my right hand supports me in everything I do so, I'm just super super thankful that we have a good team. We have a foundation the country has grown we've gone into the influencers phase. We've gotten into the Esports space for definitely expanding. We're into brand Consulting. We're even about to create our content creation division so long It's the sky's the limit at this point That's so exciting. We're gonna have to have you in the podcast again to dive into everything that you're up to and what's going on for other people listening all the executives and all the people the Sports World and athletes who are listening to this website. Listen to this podcast interview. How can they learn more about 26 marketing and all Europe too? So you can visit our website 26,000, which is marketing agency stands for marketing agency. We also have our Instagram at 26 ma Arlington at 26 M a r Twitter at 26 7. A everything is 23rd of May. Thank you so much for sharing. It's great to learn about what you're up to and and know that you're changing the world of marketing for the better. So thank you so much. Thank you for having me Brian really appreciate it off. Jose you currently work for the Tampa Bay Buccaneers and the lightning and Bucs head coach Bruce Bruce Arians has been very vocal. He always has and guys pretty vocal guy named vocal in a supportive social justice initiatives. He's a hiring women his defensive coordinator offensive coordinator special teams coordinator and assistant head coach or black men and key leadership roles. How important is this? How important is it to see true representation in the organization you work for and how empowering is that to no? No, it's huge. I love Bruce Arians with every time he speaks out. He he spoke out earlier before the season started and it rubbed some people the wrong way. I believe he said that protesting doesn't matter. I don't necessarily agree with him there. I believe that protesting doesn't matter. But what his point of what his point was that you actually have to make a change go out and make a change. I believe he's doing a great job again what you said all coordinators are black mass. He's hiring women coaches. I believe that really does a a great. It really does great for just to see those people in those positions. It gives us motivation that it is possible even though it's just a lot harder, but it can happen. Yeah, it's just important to see representation. I know Gerald and Jaylin and I and the first episode of the series talked about Jason right being hired by the Washington football team as team president and those moments matter age matters when somebody is put into a position of of great leadership and responsibility and then others can see and admire and reach for that goal pretty I want to come to you in 20, 20 wage want to get all crazy stat driven, but I'm going to drop some data points here. Okay. So in 2020 Major League Baseball received a b grade from The Institute for diversity and ethics in sports tides and off that's their overall grade based on whole bunch of factors. I went through the research study. It's very interesting when you get a little deeper into the data. They received a d plus a d Plus for gender hiring and professional Administration a c - 4 gender hiring and Senior Administration and a B+ for gender hiring in their central office. That to me screams out. We got a long way to go as a woman broke breaking into this industry. How does that make you feel? Well, I looked the report as well cuz I used to be with a deters. So every time I see one come out my start wasn't but just looking at just from my experience with doing the report when I was in grad school in the one that just came out now the the grades for the central office it definitely increased in that, you know that gave some type of Hope because I belong 40% and so that's almost half. So that's great. But I wish that the team offices and offices below would reflect the same thing because of the high office is being able to have these hiring practices that have almost 40% women in high positions. Why isn't the same thing happening in New Jersey? The team offices and then that's like four something for a woman like myself that I necessarily never wanted to work in a league office per se. I wanted to personally work with a team directly work with players and but it that doesn't give enough hope for me because like you said like we said the the grade was a deep the Deep plus and that's what I was like twenty 20% give or take of how many women they hire and it just shows that there's still a lot of work that needs to be done and not higher ups need to hold their their their their teams accountable for their the way they hired their candidates and they can't just have a mentality that okay. The diversity is just hiring racially. It is hiring women because we you can hire men of birth. And have white men in the office and you all have some differences in perspective. But at the end of the day, you don't have the woman's perspective and on a Mark if you look at our own marketing standpoint, if you want women to be your your fanbase. Oh you want to bring more women into your fan base and you don't have any women making decisions in regards to your league or your team then how can you expect to to cater to that that demographic is not possible and yet they can have them hiring secretaries and office is Bush isn't equating to these senior level positions baseball has done a lot better and giving women senior positions, but they still need have a lot of work to do. I believe I read the report right? There was 29 vice-president. I can't remember I don't quote me on that. But but it's still still a lot of work to be done. MBA is a great job. Is great when it comes to racial in general hiring, so I feel like a lot of sports need to look at what they're doing and try to implement it in their in their hiring practices, but we still have a lot of work to be done but it is it is refreshing seeing these increases in gender hiring because it does give me hope that okay, maybe just because I am a woman and originally may be like, oh, you're a woman you don't really know sports like that. But this is an industry that I've studied. This is an industry that I've been in as an athlete on one side and I just wanted to come over to the business side. So, it gives me hope but we still have a lot of work to be done. I'll go off track here for a quick second. There's so much going on right now. I see a constantly out there where there's a lot of dead men acting as if they have like ownership of sports like they're the only possible ones that could grow up with sports knowledge and the only possible ones that could really understand it becomes very frustrating. Even for a man like me who came up with the industry who has worked with women who has worked for women. I've had plenty of women female bosses in the sports industry and never once thought to myself some of my best friends in the industry from the best Jerome I know are women and I never once thought to myself like they don't really know what they're talking about. So all these idiotic men who talked that way don't deserve the conversation to be had about them don't deserve the people fighting back against them don't deserve the people even giving them any gravitas, like just ignore those people cuz most people that are in the industry don't think that way about the women they work with I will tell me that so I'll just give you a little bit of insight there since I'm somebody that's been in the industry for twenty-five years. That's the other people in the outside of talk that way not the people that are in the industry at least from my experience Brandon. We're going to draw back into the institute for diversity and ethics in sports, which we now know Britney's a editor for so I got to be careful what I say things accurately credit, so I got off I got into the research studies. I started reading and reading and reading more and as as pretty pointed out the NBA and WNBA do an incredible job and some other leagues don't and you start to go through this and one that really stood out to a college sports. The NCAA was the worst getting just a C+ overall grade for their racial and gender hiring practices. I'll quote from the study. It is embarrassing to see the Collegiate institutions back to Pride themselves on the idea of diverse and inclusive hiring practices not hold their athletic departments accountable in the same regard that's about as heavy-handed as of a tongue lashing as you get in a research paper this seems like an area we should focus. How do we break down that barrier to entry for important roles in NCAA Sports, which should be to me the absolute best training ground for people who want to work in a sports. It really should be College athletics should be where everyone is welcomed and underneath that that umbrella. How do we fix this problem? I might I think there's a multiple ways to fix the issue. First name. It's a suits at m a t level. I do want to give you know quick. Shout out to remedy College Doctor Stephen miss the Avi Belmont. Abbey is real big on diversity and in making sure that we have that changes and that trickles down to all our sports athletic programs and even down in our coaches to have my coaching staff is very diverse in all different aspects in age and gender wage. So that's one quick shot. I want to give out but I think an issue that kind of help fix that issue, you know understanding, you know, my biggest thing is, you know in to empower the Empower that makes sense. So understand that I am a you know, a male coaching basketball that my whole job is I wonder you know, you kind of a mentor or a father figure to these women to understand like hey that you know that instantly had one of the worst thought you said it was a you know d - 6 Plus but it does in in some areas. They were they were in the D level for sure. Yeah with with that, you know understanding that like understand off. You are that the new generation that's you know, been changing a lot of it just comes from it's being uncomfortable, you know being comfortable and uncomfortable situation is that makes sense understanding that a lot of people don't you may want to have that, you know diversity initiative because they don't want the the confrontation and then that to me that's close minded right? I mean doesn't do us any good if we all agree or we all look alike, cuz that's not expanding. You're not in learning off. You know, you know hoping, you know, not only yourself, you know, hoping years to grow is like a college athletics just a whole like you said, it's one of the the most diverse things from people of different backgrounds from players alumni page two boosters. It's just everybody rallies around their you know, their University and just and supporting each other in all different aspects. So there's many different things we can do to change like I said start off somebody said like from the higher up, I'm understanding that putting people in there just the front office positions or a receptionist is not going to get the job done. You want to get somebody in position where they know they can kind of dog. Challenge a little bit of your Montana thinking, you know to bring a more diverse. grow together Hello everyone. I am Nile hooker and I'm the face behind the magic hooked on Sports is a platform that I've created to put a spotlight on athletes and several different Arenas instead of having to search multiple players. You can come to hooked on Sports for a one-stop-shop. I'll be highlighting your favorite athletes to show you a side of their lives that you normally don't get to see tune in every week to get a glimpse of them in store and get hooked on Sports follow us on Instagram and Twitter at underscore hooked on sports. If this was one of our biggest roles when I was the news news director at Fox Sports Northwest is that everybody that came into the building as a new entry-level employee where you wanted to point out like where you can go where your next steps are. How do I get there? What do you need right additional training? Whatever that was. You want to paint a picture for somebody that says this isn't the end. This is the beginning, you know, when you want to be able to train and set them up for success to go through the industry so that they are mid management their executive management there in leadership positions, and that should be the case for everybody across all you know, races Creeds genders Jose. Let's talk personally. What do you feel in your faith and so far post-graduation getting into the sports industry would have been the biggest obstacles for you? I would say there are two really big obstacles. I believe the two obstacles. Our entry level pay in sports is really tough and wage networking aspect of getting into sports. So first with the entry level pay like I'm an immigrant I come from a single-mother household. Like I want to provide for my boss. I'm like, I can't be doing that on a 20,000 entry $20,000 a year like entry level position. And so it's tough It's I've been it's tough. So that's a huge one. And then the networking. I'm sure I mean you talked to Gerald. I'm sure he told you about all the stories from the summer the winter baseball meetings and Thursday a go and how tough it was to to fit in and and have a positive experience there. So and that's all throughout Sports. So those are the two biggest things that are at home. Are difficult to against into sports for sure for any what about you? Well personally being an athlete my biggest issue was going through college as an athlete. I'd never had the opportunity to do an internship or to get the experience that I need. So, that's why I once I did graduate I did decide to go right back into school because I wasn't able to get any positions anywhere because I even I love the bucks, but may I put I did it and I wanted to do an internship with them but their requirements were you had to either still be in school too in order to get the internship home and I was like, well I didn't have time to cuz I was a student and an athlete and all my time went towards either or so, that was my biggest thing and then Thursday and then off of what Jose was saying the the pay for entry-level jobs and even the for internships even while I was in grad school. I attempted to do an internship birth. They weren't paying and I had I was paying for the school myself. I had to work I had to I had to get two part time jobs. I was a grad assistant of doing the times reports and then I had to get a certain job on the side because I couldn't pay all my bills I had rent to pay so it's it's a it's that's one thing about the sports industry that has to be improved because not in that that gives a disadvantage to a lot of people of color because we don't necessarily always have that those parents that are able to support us through as doing an internship. Thankfully my parents were able to help me but they couldn't pay all my bills and school and pay and all the other little different expenses that I had. So I wasn't able to take these internships in order to get where I need to be as so when I do want to apply for these true. Rob's they're asking where's your experience? I'm just like well, I can only use the experience that I have from my serving job or these just my little temporary jobs that I have to combine it to something that might be worth using an actual Sports job. So that's a really big one. And then also the networking is really hard sometimes when especially for myself most of the people that I have as contacts in the sports industry look like me the when I try to reach out to people to get you know just interviews just informational interviews about the position to get more information. I like. Okay, what do I need to do as someone who's starting out to get where you are or cuz I want to be do more like team Operations Logistics and when I reach out to those. Or either I don't get a response especially if they don't look like me there was that do look like when they're like, yeah, great. I'll definitely, you know, get on a call with you and we'll we'll we'll sit down. On and we'll talk about some things but most of the time they're either women or their people color it is I it's very rare that I've had a conversation with someone who bought a white male and that's a hard situation, especially when majority of the sports industry does comprise of white men. So, I think that's a big thing that needs to be fixed and more people need to be more than willing to, you know offer their help to students that are coming up and then just be more open to it. I'll talk anytime. You want. All right, Brandon, I want to hear from your perspective to you with the Charlotte Knights and inside sales for a little bit. The pandemic is really hard Minor League Baseball as you alluded to earlier you are now coaching at Belmont. What's your experience been like breaking into the industry? If you have you face some challenges work in the industry and and just a sports in general was tough to kind of go back. What Jose and breeding talked about with you know the networking and relationships? Sometimes I could speak for myself personally, but sometimes you fight the relationship is not genuine, but that makes sense on a lot of times you want to for most people, you know from these brackets and for myself person. Like I said, I can only go back and speakers. It's it's hard to know how to reach out or who to reach out with two which is not a lot of people like Jose and he said that look like you if that makes sense. We're not We're Not Invisible what we do with that look like me or the ones playing the sport package. We don't see anybody in there that you know working in marketing or in sales or in finance or an HR. So you're feel like you're reaching out but you're not getting a response or you're not going to respond to that off and it's just tough, you know, like you have to really understand that you have to be diligent and continue to work hard whether that you know, personally what I did to kind of help me out. My daddy is actually log 8-bit initiative and drove up there and accuracy speaking to somebody in the midst of code that I know. It's probably not the smartest for the safest thing to do still wore a mask, but just going up there initially looking to speak someone and that's how I got in the opportunity and then later that night. I actually got a call from the head coach Jason Williams and he was like Hey, man, like the initiative that you may need to actually come out here and wanted to be a part of our program. I'm willing to give you an opportunity and I always think every day personally have no opportunity for me to kind of go off on that operational no more working on the coaching side of the dates with to go back a little bit with the time of the night. There's wonderful I learned so much. Ultimately new sales wasn't really for me, but I learned a lot. Like I said, you learn how to you know be a risk factor, you know how to talk to people and ultimately always selling whether you're selling, you know, yourself off and whatever case that maybe so like I did take that in and transform to where I am at my dad be but my experience has been you know, life-changing. I actually can say that I am at work and I love what I do every single day. And now with that I'm giving back to people that U no want to get into coaching people that I have inside of questions. I'm always yeah, you know, I'm in misery practice or doing other things but like like Britney said right out. I'll take a call 15-20 minutes. Here's my number text me. If you have any questions, sometimes I'll send all the things and be like, hey, I might not be the best person you want to reach to if you're trying to get X Y and Z, but I know a person here to call that person that person gets you can definitely help out. So like I said earlier juice You know, I'm in a position now to empower the power. My biggest thing is just always people that want my position you have to understand that. Yes, you have to continue to work hard and be diligent but I understand at one day off your whole job is to mentor and ingrown people for when you leave that they're ready to be prepared to take your spot. Yeah. It's like we were talking about in the first part where we talked about nine moussaka and saying, you know, there's pressure on the your generation to to to make change and then you guys are going to apply some pressure to the generation after you to to continue pushing that forward and that's probably a good thing off. Right Jose. So diversity amongst leadership positions in sports is incredibly important. We talked about J. Right we talked about some other roles and people that are representative. But we also need to see diversity in race and gender in all parts of the organization, you know, entry level Road Rules mid-level jobs, executive leadership ownership, you know, these are important positions that need to be diverse in our leadership wage. You're an entry-level roles with the the lightning and Bucks. What is your environment look and feel like you know when you look around you feel represented and do you feel like you're part of the organization welcomed. I've definitely felt welcomed. I am a people's person. So I always tried to make everything as easy as it can be you seem so shy I never really got no choice, but with the lightning my manager was actually look like he's just shy but she is a black woman and I love that lady so much like she read really made me feel welcome. But like I think it was me and one other person in the in the sales team that that spoke Spanish. So there's not a lot of representation that way and with the Bucks I'm did not see another person of color working with in my position. So it is tough. I'd like to see it as a challenge. I can I will break in and I will make my stance known and I will speak my mind and and I will help whoever needs help I speak two languages. So that puts me an advantage. Like I don't I don't try to see it as a disadvantage but I definitely don't see the representation as much Brandon if you were in charge of hiring in some day you will be all three of you guys will be you'll be in these kind of roles. How would you ensure a diverse workplace? Like what would you be your processor your methodology for making sure not only the best people got hired but a diverse and inclusive workplace for for me personally. The first thing I would do is when I see, you know a resume or soccer resumes come across my desk or on my computer. First thing I would do is just delete the name the number and we're going from cuz I think a lot of people put that unconscious bias in when they see a name they automatically assume you're most the time you're you can go to a gym. Killing and you can kind of guess, you know a little bit about that person just off the name and where they're from. So for me personally, I would if it's on paper folded up or tear it off or if I'm on a computer completely just erase it or white it out and really, you know, see the person's qualifications and experience and you know what they have to offer and then from there for the people that you know, sometimes they may I have the best, you know resume on paper. You still want to take a I would say a couple handful of women still just talk cuz sometimes people on paper they're they're not you know, what they are you shove somebody on paper that looks stellar and then you get them in person and they're they're not excuse me to Jose this point. They're not a people person. They really don't care. They don't have to work yet. They're going to drive and rice farmer might see somebody that on paper doesn't look too well, but they're the best fit for your company. You understand that, you know, they can really help. So for me. It's just, you know, honestly taking you know that Bristol understanding wage. That it shouldn't matter of your name where you're from, you know your religion and your race anything male-female you really want the best candidate to help you in your company grow and understand it's just going to take that calculator right? There might be somebody that you know, just like I said on paper it's not immediate but still getting opportunities at least speak and hear their mind. I think we've all been in positions, you know, even like you Brian at one point you just I just need an opportunity. Like I just want the opportunity. I'm going to apply I may not be the best qualified. But if I get that email response and says, hey we want to interview age, you know that you can bust down the door and and you work your way and so for me personally, like I said, it is a limiting the first, you know, unconscious bias of the name or that person's from and bring really look at that person's, you know, you know resume and experience and also think, you know you can do is is you know, call the references, you know, just out of blue and it's you know, don't say off. Much just like hey, I saw that you know, John Doe hear you notice, you know looking apply here just one kind of hear your thoughts and indoor from Ultimate people trying to do as much research on you. Can I know a lot of companies now, they use social media to kind of get a a different Insight on that person, but you know it is what it is at the end of the day, but like I said just having wage the opportunity to give everybody a chance. Like I said, if you have a pile of resumes obviously not going to call on 300 just just time and and stuff like that but just really understanding that, you know, you really want a diverse back because it's kind of only help you in your company growth. I think that's great. I think that's a wonderful idea and it should be something that's put into practice Britney the final question of this entire four-part series the pressures on you. It's coming your direction kind of really thank you guys for being a part of this conversation, but I think it's so important and I hope that as you guys have listened to the other episodes and log I've talked with all the different people from your field cohort that you do feel listen to and that you do feel like you have a platform to so I thank you guys before we get to this last question just for being a part of this month. So Brittany, sometimes it feels to me like we either talk about race or we talk about gender and we can't keep both things in our head at once like we're not a multitasking Society where we can really comprehend more than one issue at a time. How do we make sure in this discussion and all of these discussions that through this long history of racial unrest that we still say women need support and representation in sports to do they need to be separated. Can we bring it all together? What do we do to make sure that it's not one thing or the other? It's all right. I honestly I just feel like our society as a whole needs to broaden our spectrum of what diversity really means wage. Because nowadays when you hear diversity, all you think about is, oh we have to hire somebody a color that's not all that matters like women are out here too. We and we need to intertwine the two we don't it shouldn't be a oh has either be race or it has to be women. It needs to start to be both and give us a concrete answer of how to do that. I honestly I don't know but we just have to start making having those conversations and forcing people to widen the Spectrum and think okay when I'm talking about a diversity higher does it just have to be somebody of color and like I said with the sports industry of it being a lot of men of color getting higher in a lot of these positions for for like coaching jobs and things like that. It's not just men of color. You have women white women who play sports that are dead. Well equipped of being a coach or being the general manager or anything in that in that realm that can do the job just as well as a man of color or white man. It just needs to we just need to start having those conversations and I feel like people shy away from women being in the conversation just because we gotta deal with race first now it's a joint issue that needs to be addressed but it's going to take a lot of time. I know it's not going to happen overnight and there's still a lot of work to be done, But we just have to consciously make ourselves aware of what we're doing in regards to hiring and talking about diversity more wage is more deeper than just If somebody of color we need to involve women as well because we are a marginalized group as well. And like I'm a double minority. I'm a woman and I'm a black woman. So I know that there's always that oh, are you black or your woman first? I'm knowing both and I can fight for both and I can fight for people who look like me just because of my skin color and I can five or so people who look like me because of my genetic makeup like I'm a woman but I'm a black woman. I'm okay with that and I I'm probably in probably will say that way all over the place. I am a proud black woman. That doesn't make me any less qualified or any more qualified than anybody else. But at the end of the day, you have to see me for who I am and not accept that and know that okay other people are the same way and we need to include everything and when we talk about diversity inclusion, that's what inclusion is about everything not just one month. Hell yeah, and you know what? I Brandon I want you to jump in here too. But one thing that has been very clear to me through these conversations is that we save diversity inclusion all the time. Now, we say these words right? But if you don't stop and think about what that actually means you're doing yourself a disservice and so you have to understand that diversity means all the things you just said Brittany, but inclusion means I'm have having a voice once you get inside and being listened to and being cherished right? It's not just hiring and checking the box. It's actually including within the processes and when the decisions within the leadership bring you want to add there to Britney's pointing your point Bonita Drama head generation inclusion. I think a lot of times we need to actually stop counting heads of checking boxes and making heads actually count awful lot of times. You said people are just checking the box that we have. You know, this person is this person instead of actually making the heads counts and it's definitely doable right? Like we've done our job working we hire these positions like exactly it's got to be bigger dog. I'm bringing those people together and actually creating something that's bigger for yourself. That's ultimately what it's all about. And it's definitely doable for I've seen it our field program is done it personally, we've literally for a week-long opportunity. We brought people from all different backgrounds different places all over the us and we literally went through an entire week of literally being each other live each other and working at many things happen. So why can't we have anyone on the professional level but the field class I will love everybody. They're literally like a family. I'm I can't speak for myself. I got a little teary-eyed when we all left no idea to you know, it was so you can see it happening. It's just now we have to translate that on a professional level. I feel like I know all you guys now can I be an honorary member of your friendship group home? You can be in buying these diverse as they come unfortunately for 45 year old white guy and I was like, I'm not allowed although I'm just playing we have to keep some wage. Spirit about this as well. You guys have inspired me and I mean that sincerely there's this is the most authentic talk that we've had on this show. I believe I've literally sat back and learned a whole lot from each one of you and I think it's important everybody listening at home takes the attitude that I have which is my role here is to listen and learn and try to Shepherd the conversation but like you guys are the stars of this. So thank you so much for coming on and sharing. So honestly how you feel and what your experience has been like, thank you so much for having. Thank you so much. Appreciate you. So one quick shout out to everybody in the field family everybody. Hope everybody's doing well. I mean people and listening. If you have any questions, you know, feel free to reach out. We're always here to help. Yes and iOS. Thanks to Adrian Brown to help organize a lot and your Works behind the scenes didn't want to come on one of the shows the one to help me set up a lot of this. She was like my executive producer. So I thank you, Adrian, Adrian. Yes. I love you. I want to say a personal thank you to the ten young professionals that join me as part of this four-part series their stories moved me. They were honest wage Ville neurable and trance parents and real and I hope that they moved you as well. I hope that even just a little bit your perspective may have shifted or it may have strengthened may have changed or developed. I hope this did something to you because it definitely has to me it's important to have these conversations, but they're just to start it's on all of you listening to force change to make changed be better and it starts inside. I think one of the themes that really came through in all of these conversations was it doesn't always have to be grand actions home has to be the little steps has to be the way we talk has to be the way we interact has to be the way we listen and include those are the important steps. We can all do starting today. You have to wait. Than Grand you don't have to fight scream kick. Yell. Those are all important things too. But if everybody just made small incremental changes those with a mask to massive change globally. Thank you all for listening as part of the series that has been my absolute pleasure to have these conversations often share them with you.

Sports Jose Lopez Britney Brandon Lewis Hawks NBA Brian Mitchell Miller Danny Ferry Brittany Barber Bruce Bruce Arians Charlotte Tampa Bay Buccaneers Atlanta Hawks Starbucks Atlanta general manager Luol Deng Bruce Levinson
Moving On

Outside the Lines

23:09 min | 1 year ago

Moving On

"If you're hiring with indeed you can post a job in minutes set up screener questions then. Zero in on your short list of qualified candidates using an online dashboard get started at indeed dot com slash outside Cochran out in Jacksonville a quarter of the grievances about illegal fines were involving the Jacksonville Jaguars. NFL PA warning players not to sign. Jacksonville was too much for ownership to take. I think unquestionably the browns have been as disappointing of a team in the NFL. There's it's been so much more drama than there has been results fact that they we were thinking about Super Bowl contenders shame on us. We've been battered bruised. We moved and come back but don't change with silver and black some of these people that are nuts. He who has ears let him he raider Welcome to outside the lines fits. The browns came into this season with unprecedented hype. Predictions a super bowls but that hype has turned to heartbreak. We'll look at why and what's next next also with the Oakland. Chapter closed for the raiders. What's next for them in Vegas all of that? But first we start with our big story yesterday the Jacksonville Jaguars that were fired. Executive Vice President of football operations. Tom Coughlin in the wake of a grievance one by the NFL PA filed because the team had been finding players for missing nonmandatory mandatory off season activities. One player now known to be Dante Fowler Junior was improperly find seven hundred thousand dollars and the NFL PA has revealed that more than twenty five percent of total grievances filed by its members of past two years. Were Against Jacksonville. The Union even took the extraordinary step of saying it was something to considered quote when you have a chance to select your next club in a statement announcing Coughlin's firing jags. Owner shod CON said quote. I determined earlier. This fall that making this move at the conclusion of the twenty nine thousand nine season would be in everybody's best interests but in recent days I reconsidered and decided to make this change immediately. Really help us make sense of this entire situation. We're joined now by ESPN NFL analyst. Victor Cruz Victor. Thanks for some time. You obviously have experienced Tom. Coughlin you played under the Tom. Coughlin have you seen anything like this. In the past from coffin obviously have seen FIS in fines being levied down for missing a meeting or being late for a mandatory treatment or things is it nature and never anything that was outside of the of the mandatory obligations. That being seven hundred thousand dollars feels a bit agreed for something that's not mandatory and that's the part that kind of shakes me a little bit. Look I understand. That coach coffin likes his ship. Run a certain way. He likes a certain level of discipline he he likes players to abide by certain level of discipline. But I think this one kind of went off the rails a little bit and then it was too much for him to Kinda real back in when it goes off the rails like this. What's the effect on a locker room? It has a huge effect on the locker room. Obviously Gaza walking on X.. Shows not knowing what they're gonNA get fined for you know going to meetings early doing things that they're you know just. There's a lot of indecision in terms of where to go and how to be because guys are getting fine for things that you know. I heard Leonard. Fournette got fined for sitting down on the bench in a game that he wasn't even dress dress for so it. It gets to a point where you're like okay coach. Where are we going with this because it's starting to? There's a difference between setting rules and being disciplined on those rules and then just doing things off of just off the cuff and sending fines because of how you feel at the moment as as a former player how common are fines for non mandatory mandatory away. Things they're not common at all. I mean things are mandatory that and you miss those mandatory things then you will get a fine but if those things aren't mandatory if they're not if you're not obligated to be they're either contractually or something that you're coach and teammates have obligated for you to be Eh. You're not supposed to get fine for those things. That's just not the way it's supposed to go. So what we're seeing here finds from indicative Vice President of football operations when that trickles down. What role should coach? GM be playing in this situation. It's tough because the coach obviously understands. He's probably closer to the team and understand. And here's the things that they're saying in terms of how these finds are going But he still has to abide by the rules by the front offers and the people upstairs so that puts the coach and a tricky spot because he's understanding where the players are coming from. And getting money you know taking from them on a weekly basis when things aren't going their way but he also listens to the front office and I'm sure he wants to keep his job and make sure he's showing face in saving face with the front office so it's a tough position to be put in as a head coach or gm but there's something that you have to have a conversation with both sides have a conversation with coach Coughlin and see if there's a way to kind of meet in the middle of all of this and then have a meeting with your players and kind of bring everybody together. You were obviously a member of the NFL Players Association at one point. What was your reaction when you saw them? Come out so publicly say you should consider this before signing with the jags. I've never seen anything like that before. And and for that to be their stance in the NFL PA to come out that outrightly and say something like that. It just shows you the severity of where the situation has gotten and and you know and it kind of force the hand of Jacksonville to make this change because of the light in the level of attention that it was getting from the NFL PA throughout the rest. The players across the league. Is that a good thing. I mean this is basically the players association flexing on behalf of their members. Do you like that. I do like that. I think it's a moment where the NFL PA had to step in and say. Hey look look this is a this is out of control. Let's step in and make sure that we're taking a handle on this and we're telling our players the right thing to do to be cautious if they have the opportunity. It's a play for the Jacksonville. Jaguars under this regime and what things are going on there be very very careful with the NFL. PA was saying we don't know obviously what the next step for Jacksonville will be. But we're Tom Coffin. out of the building can call well marrone. GM and coach can they actually established a new culture when everybody has seen the way it was before I think they can. I think they have this savage a culture that understands understands I think nowadays in the culture the NFL. To listen to the place. You have to listen to what they're saying. Listen to how they're acting listen to how they're reacting to certain things because that's going to tell you what type of guy you can bring into Kinda run the show run the ship and I think they can do that Because they have a good young core of guys in Jacksonville that they can kinda grow row in mold into whatever they want to become. Well obviously nobody would know better than you not only. Have you been in locker rooms. You've been in locker rooms with Kaufman. Victor we appreciate your time and extra hanging out my pleasure. Thank you if you spend any time watching or listening to. NFL preview covered this summer. It only took a few minutes to figure out this was supposed to be a new version of the Cleveland. Browns teaming Baker Mayfield with a staggering number of newly-acquired offensive weapons including superstar Odell Beckham. Junior had some people talking super bowl now. Baker hasn't taken a step forward and Beckham's headlines are more for his future intentions. Then there's work on the field this is done just put dead like I'm from be here to talk about unless like I said unless I go to the argonauts the blue bombers and coach Freddie Kitchens is now facing potsy questions so where did it go wrong and what's next we're joined now by. ESPN NFL Nation Brown reporter. Jake Trotter for awesome insight. Jake where did this go wrong for. The browns boy fits. I mean you have to go back to the beginning of the season first game against Tennessee. The crowd was completely amped up here in Cleveland and the browns commit eighteen penalties. They're left tackle. Greg Robinson gets ojected for kicking an opponent in the face and they go on to lose that game by thirty points and really since that moment they have been defined by things that have happened off the field on the field but not necessarily in the game itself and and as you mentioned Baker Mayfield. An Odell Beckham that connection that everybody was so excited about when they made that train back in the spring it just has not is not clicked and part of it is that has been hurt you know. They have been able to practice together. Their Office of line hasn't allowed Baker to throw the ball downfield and then neither guys playing very well and that's why the offenses this is struggled so much this year. Well let's be honest. A lot of the hype was because a Baker. So where is he in your eyes right now in his development process he stagnated. I mean if you ask Baker he said it a few days ago. He hasn't taken the twenty percent jump for that. He anticipated that he expected that the the browns front. The office was hoping that he would take this year. And this is a franchise that has started thirty different quarterback since nineteen ninety nine to put that into context excited. This city was about Baker Mayfield. I mean he wasn't Lebron James in terms of the talent and obviously the career that Lebron has had but in terms of popularity in Cleveland. He was right up there because the city was so quarterback starved and he's not been accurate with the football this year. He's down the bottom tier in the league and completion percentage which is inexplicable given how accurate accurate. He was throughout his college career. He's turned the ball over as much as any quarterback in the NFL. This year and just doesn't look as decisive at at times as he did last season and certainly throughout his college career at Oklahoma. So how much of the blame for that to you. Put it at the feet of Freddie Kitchens. Yeah I think a lot out of it. You have to put it the feet of Freddie Kitchens. He's not only the head coach. He's the play caller and he's the one who is calling. These plays on game day where Baker Dacre is not always in the best position and they had this great synergy. Last year. They fired Hugh Jackson they promote Freddie Kitchens from running backs coach to interim interim offensive coordinator. The guy never called place before. Never been a head coach before and he and Baker had this great synergy and down. The last half of the season Baker was about as good. What is any quarterback in the NFL? Set the rookie. Touch passing touchdown record and Hich is not carried over to this season Baker and the other quarterbacks they have a a lot of input into what scheme the team is going to run from week to week but it has they have not been able to carry over the magic and that synergy that they had last season so the national national conversation consistently goes to. You can't disappoint this much without epoch. Change coming in the off season in Cleveland. What is the level of expectation for change? Well you at anticipate there would be some changes. I mean in terms of personnel. They've got to get more veterans more leadership in the locker room. They have definitely prioritize talent over character in some cases which is backfired on them. This season of a bunch of guys that are not on the field for reasons since other than injury which has really hurt them particularly on the defensive side. And then when you talk about the coaching staff. I think that this front office really. He wants this to work out with Freddy Kitchen. John Dorsey his first hire was was Freddie really staked his reputation on him and they kind of went into this thinking. Okay Freddy is GonNa the be learning on the fly to some degree inexperienced head coach. First Time he's doing this. There's GonNa be hiccups along the way but Freddie has got to give them a reason to it to get him another chance and that loss to Arizona was was pretty damaging. I think to the potential that Freddie will be back next year they still have two games left. Go there still remarkably in the playoff picture. Even though it's remote and they could also flatlined the rest of the year. I mean they've got Baltimore team. That will be looking for revenge. A plane for Home Field Advantage and then Cincinnati team. Where if they're out of the playoff picture at that point you wonder how motivated the browns will be so? This could really go either either way. I think at this point but the Arizona game really hurt Freddie Kitchens in terms of the front office feeling like he deserves a second chance next year yet again. We're we're we're entering off-season for Cleveland where the conversations going to be maybe next year and we'll get this stuff right jake. Thank you so much for your time. We appreciate you coming up. Next for the raiders. The Black Nicole chapter came to a close Sunday now glittering glamorous strip awaits. What's next for the soon to be Las Vegas Raiders? We'll take a look at it on outside the lines. Your home is important. That's why GEICO helps make it easy to save on Homeowner's insurance because home is more than just a place home is where you curl up on the couch couch in a fetal position and cry at cheesy movies even though you've seen them a thousand times and have all the lines memorized and and also you with me. In the GEICO Insurance Agency could help protect tear-filled comfort zone. You Call Call Geico and see how easy it is. Switch and save on Homeowner's owner's insurance. Here's more stuff that matters. Russia has indicated. It will file an appeal against its four year Olympic banned due to sanctions placed on it by the World Anti Doping Agency on Thursday we saw a supervisory board voted to file a case for the Court of Arbitration for Sport in Switzerland. The decision must to be approved. By another panel of Russian sports anti-doping figures should the appeal fail. Russia would be banned from participating in the Twenty Twenty Tokyo Summer Olympics and twenty twenty two winter games in Beijing elsewhere. The Institute for Diversity and Ethics in sports at the University of Central Florida released its annual racial and gender report for FBI colleges and universities the one hundred and thirty institutions collectively received a grade of C for racial hiring practices and in F- for gender hiring practices that we're promising promising news though among the ranks of athletic directors who twenty four people of Color Holding those positions in two thousand nineteen the most in the studies history in this past weekend. My Beloved Raiders Played Their Final Home Game in Oakland and with that we have the end of that whole as we know it for raiders fans the black hole as much more than a section in the coliseum. It's family check out this excerpt from e sixty profile following the end of days for one of the most passionate fan bases in sports. We've been battered and bruised. We moved they come back but I- colors don't change with silver and black a raider fan. We look at the raiders of real they. They left us before they came back as real life. Stuff leaves stuff dies stuff moves stuff changes. Yeah that's right. A nascent. Blackwell Cole was born twenty five years ago when I found Robert Bureau and just a few of his buddies watching the Cleveland browns. Game The call that we knew they were doing some special in the end zone. I think we saw them and we now have. We knew if they come back to Oakland. Let's let's do something similar to the Alma. Let's do it. On ratings we started throwing around maims rats you other things and the black hole came up and there was silence and we knew right then and there. That was the name that we were going to go with. Raiders did come back now and the very next year ear. So as we're in the end zone NAPOLEON KAUFMAN GETS A kick return against the colts. He jumps into the end zone. He jumps into my arms. It was like I gotta get Outta here. I knew that they want to stay in there too long. Because he was getting Kinda rough for a minute there. First few games people started moving out or that section. That didn't want to be a part of that mosh pit atmosphere but then people started moving in. That wanted to be part of it. And that's when it really started to take off. It became became a fan phenomenon. There are fans and then they're super fans we don't just look the part. We live this. The face as paint from being is getting ready for battle once that faces complete no longer wayne stared at you. Violators looking at you. and talking to him I met violator when I was kid. I told him I grew up on Gulick. He said it was the original topic. Okay interesting Mexican and particularly for many outsiders the black holes reputation tation precedes itself. Is this whole kind of stigma You know people who said they're saying quitting the him out of prison and I think we're all criminal people think of US less than you. We just a bunch of paying the phrases caricatures. Not exactly who you I wish you were Darkest Day came on March twenty seven two thousand seventeen when NFL approved. The raiders moved moved to Las Vegas. I'm highly upset with the city with the reader management. And you know I don't think get that back. That sucks crack my heart man. There's a scar there and they'll never go away for for them to be able to pack up and leave a trail of tears behind them is something that is in my mind criminal when you give everything that you have and that you can muster sure up for the love of something it leaves a big hole sort of a black hole inside the black hole. mm-hmm as raider trying to figure out what's next we welcome in. ESPN raiders reporter. Paul Gutierrez Paul. You saw that piece with the with the black hole. What's next for the the black hole? I made sure I wouldn't paid my respects of the guys in the in the ladies and the children and everybody else. That's in the black hole. When I went through there and I I may have taken a picture with violator in guerrilla real as well so in talking to a lot of the people there a handful say that they're moving to Las Vegas? They're going to get their season tickets. I asked one person and if they were really into it and if they were really going to go through with it. He pulled up a receipt on his cell phone and showed me his. PSLV say yeah. You think I'm committed so so there. There's a handful that are going to continue to to root for the raiders. Go and try and recreate that type of scenario in Las Vegas in one of the end zones but again it's GonNa be hard to replicate exactly what that Game Day. Experience is like not only in the stadium for the people in the black hole but for the tailgate experience outside as well well much was made eight in that stadium at the last game of people throwing things on the field police having to guard the field. What was your reaction to the way it all came to a close at the coliseum? You know the few ask me one word I would say painful and yet it was so fitting as well because we all know. And there's no running or hiding from it. It's the second era of Oakland Raiders. Football since they returned from Los Angeles in Nineteen ninety-five has been full of valleys. A few highs they did go to the Super Bowl but mostly a lot of heartache. A lot of heartbreak in this game was was kind of a microcosm of that because the raiders were dominated in Jaguars they had the game in hand and then Ono the referees blew a call and the NFL admit that and they have admitted that. So the I did blow a call. They cost the raiders. The raiders shut it down in the second half. They couldn't get anything going off. They give up two touchdowns in the last five minutes. The crowd is stunned and and perhaps most fittingly of all the last play the game a hail Mary hits a Raider in the helmet. Wide Open unimpeded and the season at Oakland is done on just like that. So at that point things are flying on the field fans are upset understandably not saying they should have been throwing things on the field and then got real strangers. When Derek Eric Carr took the time to go over to the black hole and pay his respects as well the the booze amplified when he got there and then the crowds started throwing things at him when he was over in the crowd and then when he's spun off and run out back to the locker room? The entire stadium saw him and the booze thunderous and it was kind of an unbelievable situation the way that this crowd kind of turned on a dime in the middle of a game. Well Derek Carr is somebody that is very polarizing for raiders fans. There seems to be a love hate relationship depending on who you are do you believe the Derek Carr will be the starter in Las Vegas. Yes I think these two games are going to tell the story. I also believe in a weird strange scenario like we're talking with the browns earlier. The raiders are still technically alive. Five and it's not an unfeasible possibility for them to do this. The least likely though is for them to win these two games at the chargers at the broncos and if they do that and if they finish on a strong wrong note then yeah I think you roll the dice with Derek Carr in Las Vegas and I didn't mean to do that role that is in Las Vegas but that's kind of where we're at right now but you also have to wonder if if John Gruden wants to see what does Shawn Kaiser can do in this offense in alive game to the danger. There though is if you throw Kaiser in there and you sit Derek. There's going to be a lot of unhappy people all in both sides of the camp. And you're right. I've been covering this team since two thousand five and I don't think I've seen a more polarizing figure raider history than Derek Carr is right now and that's including the likes of Jamarcus Russell Relondo McLean and even Carson Palmer. Because as you said people either love Derek. Or it's the other thing with him right now and none of it is fair. But that's what happens is with the quarterbacks in the NFL all you brought back a lot of painful memories for me. As a raiders fan. I mean that's not fair my friend. I appreciate your time. It's going to be interesting to see how this chapter ends. And and how the next chapter begins in Las Vegas. It's going to be a very different experience. But it's still an exciting. Chapter for the raiders. Paul thank you so much for your time. We appreciate it Jason. Thanks for having me coming up. We'll be right back updated on more. You need to know. Join Ryan Smith and sage. Page steel for sportscenter tonight at six eastern heck I might just barge into the room to the look at the tonight's keys for victory for Lebron honest and a possible. NBA Finals Preview. Definitely the the game of the year so far plus Dak Prescott plan to play through the pain Sunday against the Eagles and the bills blueprint beat Brady and the Patriots can finally have him for the love of all things only that sports center on. ESPN and the APP right after PTI. And you don't WanNA forgive. Friday bowl. Season begins landslide. Pulled in my buddy the the Buffalo Bulls take on the Charlotte that takes on Charlotte. And the makers wanted Bahamas bowl. I want to go to the Bahamas two. PM EASTERN ON ESPN and seven thirty on ESPN two. Just one should be Jordan. Love should be leads. Utah State Against Dustin Chrome and Ken State in the Tropical smoothie Cafe Frisco Bowl next stuff. NFL live coming up. When the Nixon GonNA keep breaking down what tax expectations are? This has been not l.. Thanks for watching.

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Empathy And Power; U.S. Military Confronts Racism

Here & Now

41:40 min | 7 months ago

Empathy And Power; U.S. Military Confronts Racism

"From NPR and WBZ. I'm Jeremy Hobson I'm Robin Young? It's here and now the Supreme Court ended its session with a bang today ruling seven two that the president can be subpoenaed while in office in case involving New York prosecutors who want president trump's financial records, but the court also found in the same seven to majority led by Chief Justice Roberts that Congress does not yet have the right to trump financial information, and both cases were sent back to lower courts. Further review so as legal scholar Jeffrey toobin put it a big legal loss for the president. He does not have immunity, but a practical win while Congress may yet get some of. Of his records and the New York prosecutors most likely will nothing will be revealed to the public before the election. Let's get a quick reaction from David Coltart National. Legal Director of the American Civil Liberties Union which filed an amicus brief in the New York Case David. The president argued that as president he could not be subpoenaed. He called presidential harassment. The court said he could be by these New York prosecutors your reaction. I think it's a victory, not just for the New York prosecutors, but for the rule of law how the president was essentially arguing that he was above the law that he could not be compelled to respond to a subpoena. That everyone else in the United States would have to respond to and the Supreme Court resoundingly rejected his argument that he's immune from such subpoenas, and that a heightened standard of proof has to be established to to require him to. His records he's. Obligated to turn over his records like anyone else in the united, states and that's a victory for the rule of law. And yet it's a process that takes time. It will be secretive in part and will not happen before the election your thoughts on that. That's the nature of law doesn't move swiftly and grand juries are secret for good reasons but the important principle here is Should a president be able to put himself above the law to refuse to comply with subpoenas that every other American citizen would have to comply with? President Trump's argument very forcefully made, and it was very forcefully rejected by the Supreme Court including by the two justices that he appointed justice. Gorsuch and Justice Cavenaugh David Cole, national. Legal Director of the American Civil Liberties Union. Thank you, thank you well. Let's now bring in David Kay Johnston, the former New, York Times, investigative reporter tax policy, specialist and trump biographer. David Just David Cole say that this is a legal victory whether or not we see as Americans, we see the president's tax returns almost doesn't matter. We know you believe very strongly that it does matter why. Well I think this is a very weasley decision. By the supreme. Court, it was totally expected that the court would hold David Cole pointed out that the president is not immune. But the court punted here. The court could have said the subpoena from near prosecutors can be enforced. Secondly the house, Ways and Means Committee operates under Section Sixty one zero three of the tax code, which says that the Treasury shall. Turnover tax records on. It's the same law that applies to the president. He can look at anybody's tax returns. All make a request so I think what the court did. Here is instead of ordering immediate enforcement of the subpoenas by the ways and Means Committee the Manhattan, prosecutors. As happened in the Nixon Watergate tapes case, they sent it back for what will be months. Possibly years of litigation and that is very troubling. is suspect we will learn eventually that the only way chief justice could avoid a five four decision was to make this procedural compromise. The court should have acted when it mattered so that we would know before the election. What's going on well and there is speculation that John. Roberts wanted to have. As close to a unanimous decision as there was in the Nixon case could get, but remember also in the Nixon case, before that could be litigated president. Nixon step down onto the pressure of knowing that eventually it would be difficult Johnston. What do you think we need to know? What is it that you WanNa? Know from the president's personal taxes or the money that he allegedly paid hush money. Well there is abundant evidence in the public record already. Donald Trump and his family are long time garden variety tax cheats on a grand scale. New York. Prosecutors already know his federal tax information what they don't have our the actual returns as well as the drafts of his returns, the business records and internal documents, which both his accounting firm, and others indicated they will turn over if the subpoenas aren't forced. Germany's Deutsche. Bank has been trump's mainlander in recent years. They have admitted guilt in a scheme to accept large suspicious transactions from Russians. I'm assuming you're looking to find out more about that. Well the expectation is that the lungs that were made by Your Bank to Donald Trump when the bank would loan money to him. were backed by deposits made with Deutsche Bank by various Russian criminal elements, and that's who the oligarchs are there a the Putin's criminal gang. And if in fact Donald Trump's. were made by Deutsche only because there were offsetting deposits or letters of credit from Russian criminals. We really need to know that because it's fundamental to our national security. David Johnston former New York Times investigative reporter tax policy specialists trump biographer David. Thank you. Great you. We'll major us. Universities are joining forces to fight a trump administration policy that will strip international students of their visas unless the students take in person classes Harvard University and the Massachusetts Institute of Technology, filed the lawsuit in Federal Court and more than a half dozen schools are lining up in support, including Princeton Cornell and Stanford while the University of California, system says it will file its own suit. Max Larkin has been covering this. He's education reporter. At Wb you are in Boston and Max. The federal government announced this visa rule on Monday. Remind us what exactly it says. Your Jeremy so back in the spring you had campuses clothes like in a hurry right? The everybody get out sometimes in just a few days and so back then and officials that immigration custom, enforcement or ice, which polices the visa program showed this kind of uncharacteristic bit of leniency so normally international students here on a visa cannot take more than one class. Class Online, but in the spring ice basically looked the other way, and then on Monday, they started to try to head back to that status quo, so students on F, one and M. One visas can't enroll in Eighth Foley online program, and then if it's partially online, schools will need to assure immigration officials that there is at least some in person component. Do, we have a sense of why the federal government is doing this. Is this a negotiating tactic to try to force the schools to reopen in the fall fully? Get does have the feel of hardball tactic because it's broken down by the course that colleges are choosing to pursue, and it may well induce schools that are fully online to try to include some sort of pro forma person element as they try to skirt this regulation, but then I think there's still a big question of by Jeremy and I think maybe there's a kind of a fear of. Of A ratchet effect or a precedent, if I were to look the other way on this online learning or in person, learning requirement for international students for too many months in a row than it might be all that much harder to return to the status quo, so I think they're trying to reintroduce the structures gradually, even if that sort of flies in the face of public health thinking. Acting Deputy Secretary of Homeland Security Cancun Cinelli. Defended the policy earlier this week on CNN listen if they're not going to be a student or if they're going to be a one hundred percent online than they don't have a basis to be here. What are the schools that filed? This lawsuit Harvard and MIT. Would mean for them. We know that overall. There were more than a million international students in the US last year. Yeah Jeremy. They're arguing that this policy doesn't really make sense and leaves them with only bad choices, so they point to this moment in the lenient policy back in March. Officials said it would apply for the duration of the emergency, and so now you've got covid nineteen cases climbing all over the united. States and Harvard and MIT sickly. Say this is still an emergency the emergency. He's still with us so. They're frustrated. As they started up their case in federal court in Boston this morning daily in Attorney for Harvard, said one year first year student down for their campus, for the fall, was already blocked from doing so in Belarus, and that's as reported by our wonderful wbz colleague Fred Tastes so they're saying legally this ill-considered, arbitrary and capricious in other words, and therefore a violation of the administrative procedure act and morally, and in terms of what we know about how these things spread. It's just a a policy that has. Sort of a huge downside. You've been speaking with international students. What are they telling you? Yeah. I think they'd say that. Colleges aren't the only ones confronting really really difficult choices right now, so some of them will have signed leases. That I spoke to in the very expensive Boston Cambridge Somerville Housing. Market others who are dealing with a hybrid program, and therefore might have a slightly easier time with this regulation had been looking forward. Counting on being able to stay off campus because of a medical issue, because you know, they might have an elderly relatives somewhere in their world that they're trying to avoid you know exposing possibly to the virus, and they're also saying imagining heading back to China and the number one source of these visas, and having to take you know a two PM class in the middle of the night, and I think they're all feeling very torn up, but at the same time they're hoping that these very wealthy and powerful institutions that are leading this fight might be able to win them a little bit of latitude and find a way around this. Is WBZ are. A reporter Max Larkin. WHO. It's been more than a month. Since the horrific video of Floyd's killing inspired a movement demanding change in policing in education and the symbols we wear, and the statues many took for granted the way we feel all good, but why now? Why are people suddenly paying attention? When injustices against and Brown Americans have been tolerated for years. Why not after the protests of other deaths of Michael Brown in Ferguson Missouri for instance so many others? Will according to Stanford Psychology? Professor Jamile, Zaki. It has to do with empathy how it's fostered, and what makes it atrophy just like a physical part of US might Zaki is author of the war for kindness, building, empathy and fractured world. We spoke with him earlier this year. He was teaching kindness and empathy. College students immersed in technology and social media professors. Aki Jamile. Good to have you back. It's great to be back and it was fascinating to read some of your writing about empathy. For instance you say it is like a muscle and we were remembering when we did a story on. How will which you don't think tangible thing you know your will to stick with the Dieter to work out. Your will is actually a muscle. How is empathy like a muscle? We tend to think of a lot of features of our inner lives. Lives like how outgoing we are or how empathic we are just something that will never change something that you either have or you don't, but it turns out that empathy is like a skill. It's like a muscle. We can practice it like any other skill and get better at connecting with people, which is terrific in some ways, but also has the dark side because like a muscle. If you don't use it, it can as you say atrophy. By the way I think, we should learn the distinction between empathy and sympathy. How are they different oh? Thank you so much for that question. It's so more to define our terms. Empathy is psychologists see it is an umbrella term for multiple ways we connect with other people's emotions. Including at least three things, one is sort of catching were sharing what other people feel a second is trying to understand what they feel and Y which we would call cognitive empathy and. And a third is feeling concern for what other people are going through and desire for them to feel better, which is what we would call compassion or empathic concern, and all three of these can change depending on our experiences, practices and habits, and that brings us to the relationship between power and empathy. You say it's an inverse relationship. The more powerful people are the less likely. They're to have empathy because they're less likely to need. Other people flush that out. Yeah so a lot of this comes from the great work of the psychologist Michael Krause Michael and his colleagues argue that a lot of people whether they come from lower socioeconomic backgrounds or from under represented groups they face all sorts, if disadvantages from material insecurity to the danger of being disenfranchised or even facing violence at the hands of the state, and all of these disadvantages and vulnerabilities just make it obvious how much people need each other as a result, people who are lower in status and. And power tend to practice or work on their ability to understand other people and get better at it. By contrast with relative power might be less inclined to realize they need other people and therefore less inclined to work on understanding them, and that pops out in all sorts of different ways, so Michael and his colleagues have found that people who are high versus low in power and status are less likely to people to understand other people's emotions. Their heart rates don't match up with other people. When they're in conversation with a stranger, they're more likely to look disinterested for instance, not making eye contact, and they report lower compassion for the suffering of other people well the science here I mean science that shows that for instance lower status individuals pay more attention to facial cues. They can see when somebody's upset and somebody. Who's much higher status. Just reading the news I think that's right Robin, and let's go back to the idea of skill. So why do you? Why or why does anybody work on a skill? It's because we realized that it's important to us. And again it seems based on the research that in essence people who are lower in status, just realized that the skill of connecting with others will be very important for them to make it because oftentimes. They don't know if they have the resources to. To make it on their own, and so that recognition of the need for others that drives us to practice something like empathy, which in turn build that muscle build that skill, and that's one of the sad things that people who have a lot of privilege could make a difference they can affect lots of people with their words and actions, and yet it's these very people who often have blind spots to the experiences of the folks who they could help the most. We asked the start. Why is this happening now? Why do polls show a huge majority of Americans from different parts of the country in both political parties feel that there's been injustice, and there's systemic racism that's so different from other times and research shows that you know in in our past in our recent history, whites have a reason not to understand. Some of our terrible past, because that might force them to realize that they might have contributed or benefited from it. Yeah, I think that's exactly right, so you can go back to again. Maybe people with less privilege and power have lots of motivations, lots of reasons to practice the skill well, people with privilege might have reasons not to, because focusing on the pain of others might make them focus also on the ways that they're benefiting from the very systems that cause others harm when someone feels that they are the culprit for the harm of somebody else. That's a threat to them. THEM WE WANNA. View ourselves as good people and when you, when you're forced to see yourself as a perpetrator or as part of a group of perpetrators that damages your ability to continue seeing yourself as good. And how do people react to that? They strive for any means through which they can recover their sense of being a good person, and unfortunately one of the most effective ways to do that is to blame. Victims were to dehumanize them. There's a really dramatic example of this. My colleague Alexandra studied in executioners and other death workers, and what they found. Is that people? People who were responsible for executing folks were more likely to dehumanize those prisoners, and the level of dehumanisation tracked. How involved in the prisoner's death? Somebody was the idea here is that when empathy threatens us? We might purposefully turn it down. So in one set of studies, psychologists reminded white Americans about the slaughter of native Americans at the hands of Europeans and in response to this white Americans tended to dehumanize native Americans or view them as less capable of experiencing the full range of human emotion, and in so doing atrophying that muscle, but as you say, you can go to the. The Gym you can go to the empathy gem you can work at. How do you do that? Well I think that there are lots of ways to do it, but let's I. stipulate that it can be done I think there's a lot of thinking in this space and a lot of reporting on this privilege empathy gap that suggests that privileged people have brain damage, or are incapable of empathizing and a that's unnecessarily hopeless. Be leads powerful people off the hook says well. They just can't do it. They can. Anybody can and one clear way of doing this is by just. Practicing on a regular basis, taking the perspective of others research from Adam Gallinsky for instance has found that when people who are in positions of power do regular perspective taking exercises. They're more open to justice so oftentimes in settings like conflict resolution the idea. Let's have each party have equal time, but it turns out that there's a more powerful way to do perspective taking when there are pre existing imbalances of power, because people in disadvantaged positions tend to already know a lot about the perspective of those in power in our case sort of a wealthy white male perspective. My friend Emil Bruno did a really powerful set of studies where he basically said instead of ignoring power differences. Let's flip them on their head. Let's have people from historically lower power groups play the role of the perspective giver, and let's have people from higher power groups play the role of an active listener that type of exercise that really again reverses, and in a way redresses. Old Imbalances empower actually produced greater harmony between groups and greater affiliation between them. So that's one way you telling us other ways that we can work that muscle. Well, I think one especially important way to think of now is by diversifying the voices that we have in our life and in our culture. I think right now. Thanks in large part, the work of activists, and in particular work within the black community. A lot of people who have relative privilege have opened their eyes more so as you said than during previous movements even four or five years ago now one thing about empathy that's tricky is that it's hard to count on it to last and the problems that we're facing. The culture aren't just problems of empathy, their problems of structural racism and inequity, but one thing that I think we can do is use the empathic momentum. We have to make sure that we're creating policies that put black and brown voices in positions of leadership, and in in high profile positions in our culture, because one way to practice empathy is to hear from people who are different from you on a regular basis. Jamile Zaki Professor of psychology at Stanford University author of the war for kindness. Building EPA themed fractured world. He also taught a class. Unkindness at Stanford. Will Link you to our past conversations professor. Jamile, thank you so much. Thank you. The Labor Department reported today that. One point three million Americans filed for unemployment benefits last week. That news comes as states have reimposed some lockdown because of rising cova cases. NPR Chief Economics correspondent Scott horsely joins us now and Scott I of a one point. Three million new claims is the headline. Everyone is talking about today, which is of course lower than it has been in previous weeks. But what do you see as you look deeper in this report? How'd you remember that one point? Three number is the state claims, and it is down about one hundred thousand from the previous week, although still very high by historical standards, in addition, though more than a million people file claims under the Special Federal Pandemic Program for gig workers and others who ordinarily are not eligible for unemployment, and that number's up from the previous week so unbalanced we. We saw just a small decline in the total number of new jobless claims. We also get each week a report from the Labor Department on the total number of people who are collecting unemployment under all the various programs that comes out with something of a lag, but as of June twentieth, nearly thirty three million people were receiving some kind of jobless benefits from the federal government. And thirty-three million overall, this has been going on for months now that we've been seeing claims in the millions. What is driving the numbers at this point? It's still possible at some of these new claims are leftover from the spring. When there was such a crush of people trying to file that the system was just overwhelmed, but it's also true that you know four months into this pandemic domestically people continue to be laid off including some who had just recently gone back to work as you mentioned. cove infections are accelerating. Some bars that opened in May and June have now been forced to close again Seeing. Job losses have just taken time to materialize for example. There's a paper mill in Wisconsin. That will be closing its doors later this month. Because with the pandemic demands has dried up for the specialty paper, it makes for advertising by retailers and sports teams in the tourism industry for example that's going to mean nine hundred job losses at the end of July also this week United Airlines warned it may have to furlough some thirty six thousand workers in the fall, because demand for air travel, which had improved a little bit from practically non-existent to just really really low is now once again losing altitude. We'll speaking of things losing altitude the P P P program a lot of the aid that has come from Congress to help people through these times. is starting to run out. How much of that aid is? How much is that keeping the economy afloat right now? The peop- those are the federal loans to small businesses that were going to turn into grants. If they use them to keep people on the payroll, there's some debate in the Economic Community about where that money really save jobs or just subsidized companies that we're going to keep workers around anyway. We do know that other kinds of federal aid whether it's the supplemental unemployment. Benefits were those twelve hundred dollar relief payments were really important in putting money into people's pockets, so they could pay their bills keeping the economy humming. Course for many that twelve hundred dollars is now been spent, and the extra jobless benefits are due to expire at the end of this month, so economists are warning that if Congress doesn't find some way to pump more money in the economy, we could be looking at another setback in August, September and beyond. And briefly Scott. The the picture you paint is pretty dire, but we are hearing about the unemployment rate falling down to what eleven percent or so last month. Is that legit or do you think it's under counting people? Jobless claims tell us who's losing jobs. They don't tell us about those who've gone back to work. And in May and June, we did see a faster than expected return to work by some the question is will those hold up as infections are surging? If your teeth, economics correspondent Scott horsely. Thank you. The American military with its own history of segregation is very much a part of the racial reckoning that is going on in the country right now there are calls to rename basis named after confederate generals and branches of the military are moving to ban the display of the confederate flag, but service members are getting different message from their commander in chief president. Trump joining us now is retired admiral. James Stavridis who also served as NATO's Supreme Allied Commander Admiral every just welcome back. It's my pleasure to be with you. Jeremy well how much work does the military have to do on the issue of race? Would you say more than other organizations less or about the same? I think we have got plenty of work to do, but we've come a long way in the military and if you go back. To our period of time in in the Second World War. We still had a very much a segregated military, utterly segregated. We turned that corner. I think a little before the rest of the country by the sixties. We are desegregated organization up today. We have a four star African Americans. We have four star Latinos within the uniform military made a lot of progress. The navy just named its newest nuclear powered aircraft carrier after an African American. Former cook named Doris. Miller Dorie Miller, who won the Navy cross at Pearl Harbor at the Battle of Pearl Harbor. Just an example of I think the services are paying attention to this issue, but we still have instances of racism. We still have pockets of concern around the military. We're going to be working at it like everybody else for a long time to come. What you say that there are still pockets racism. Apparently, people have still been able to display the confederate flag in the military. The Navy is working on a ban of the display of that and General David Berger whose commandant of the Marines spoke with ABC's Martha Raddatz on Sunday and she asked him about the marines ban on confederate flags. Let's listen. This is not an attempt to arrange history, but the bigger symbol is the things that draw the team together so that we can operate with kind of implicit trust we have a flag is the American flag. We have a marine. Corps colors. We have things that unify US anything that gets in the way of that as a problem. How hard do you think it's going to be to ban confederate flags in the armed forces? It will not be hard at all first of all in my career for thirty five plus years. I just can't remember seeing the stars and bars so to speak the flag dixie flag up anywhere so I. Don't think it's a big deal, but to my earlier comment of pockets of racism I think there is. Is a a strain of white nationalism that runs through pockets of the military. You see that in polling data that the military times does for example so again. We've got work to do, but this is a layup. This is a no brainer to get rid of the confederate flag and I think you'll see not only the navy I think you'll see the entire department of Defense do that in the next several months. Well. What do you think about the fact that you've got right there? In that clip? We played an American general appealing for unity, even as the commander in chief is stoking racial divisions. Is that confusing to service members I think it is, and I think it's deeply unfortunate and the one thing Americans historically have looked to the presidency for is unification is a leader who can transcend the the moment. Those are the great presidents think of Franklin Delano Roosevelt leading US through the Great Depression coming out of by the way the Spanish influenza into the Great Depression, and as he becomes president, and through the Second World War. He brought the nation together on. That's the kind of president we need. Beyond the debate over the confederate flag there's also the question of renaming military bases which would be significant. There are a lot of them named after confederate generals. What about that do you think that that's going to be a heavy lift for the military to rename ING bases? Not In the least and again I think this is a lay up. I if you look at a, General Burger said it. We're in the military. Ultimately were an organization that values above everything else teamwork working together I mean this is one point. Two million people who get up in the morning and put on the same outfit. They call them uniform. Because we WANNA be together, we WANNA even look like each other so in a case like. Like this, these confederate bases are not unifying us because significant members of our force find it offensive that and frankly the idea that we would have basis named after generals who fought against the United States of America. We certainly don't have a base named after General Erwin Rommel. Who is the great Nazi general in the Second World War? He was a terrific general. Exceptional warfighter. We're not going to name a base after him because he's a great warfighter, I've heard that argument foot forward. In terms of having basis named after Lee or Brag or Stonewall Jackson? It's a mistake and it's a mistake that we can correct in the Congress sees it by the way on both sides of the aisle and has sent the president. Defense Bill that is going to help the military unnamed those bases. It's time to do that. What about the issue of leadership in the military, you mentioned that there are some that you could name all of the black members of military with four or five star ranks on two hands How does the military? Reckon with that. We need to do better. And this is something I mentioned before at moving along our minorities, and it's not just African Americans. It's are Latinos who represent fifteen percent of the United States population more than the African American population, and we need to be looking out for Asian population as well. All of these minorities in my view need to be better represented the way to do that is to get them into the. The mid career jobs that lead to those flag ranks. That's passed to happen as a result of Mentorship, just as it does in the civilian world, just as it does in the academic setting when I was dean at the Fletcher, school, you have to work hard to get people in position in the middle of their careers, so that they can then step up to those leadership roles later on mentorship. Here's the key. Okay, so you've made the case that it should be done and that it is hard work then my question is, does the military have the bandwidth to tackle this issue right now given the pandemic and all the threats that exist that have not gone away because of the pandemic from Russia to China to terrorism. Yes, the military has the ability to do this because these are fundamentally different tasks in different muscle movements. If you will on the the skill sets in the work that we do in. In order to prepare to conduct prompt and sustained combat operations. That's what the law charges. The US military with doing the work to do that is a discrete set of tactics. Techniques procedures alongside that we're running a big HR department. If you will one point, two million people, but we have specialists who do that and we have leaders who are perfectly capable of focusing on their warfighting responsibilities at the same time that they focus on taking care of the force, and throughout the course of my career. I've seen. So, many of our best leaders are the best warfighters, but there are also the ones who take the time to mentor people and bring along others I'll give you a practical sample who you will know and that's General Colin Powell. He's someone who was a terrific combat leader, who also was an instinctive mentor and I was lucky enough to be someone who was mentored by Colin Powell that helped me in my career. We had the leaders who can do both. Admiral every has before we let you go I just want to ask you one question while we have you which is. What would you say is the number one threat facing the United States right now I will surprise you perhaps, but the thing that kept me awake at night when I was supreme allied commander of NATO was not Afghanistan Libya the Balkans piracy Russia. It was cyber. Just as we have been surprised at our vulnerability to this pandemic, we are quite vulnerable and not thinking enough about how vulnerable our cyber systems are in touch, everything that we do and we are vulnerable there I. Don't think we're paying enough attention exactly as we did not pay sufficient attention to the pandemic, we are not paying enough attention to the cyber threat. And it's just about as complicated as a crazy new pandemic that we'd never heard of four so. We'll see if we start paying more attention to it. Now Admiral James Stavridis former supreme allied commander of NATO. Thank you so much as always for joining us. It's my pleasure to winter. Major league soccer resumed its season last night with the start of a tournament in Florida. Before the first game, players protested against police brutality by standing fists raised for eight minutes and forty six seconds the period of time of course in Minneapolis police officer had his neon George Floyd's neck as he died one team FC Dallas is playing the tournament around a dozen of the players tested positive for covid nineteen so headlines Intersecting with sports once again. Let's bring in Mike Pesca here now sports analyst he hosts the daily Podcast, the just at slate, dot, com and Mike. Eight minutes and forty six seconds standing with fists raised that sounds like an incredibly. Powerful moment your thoughts on this and you know. Does the League support the players? Yes they do and beyond the length of time the visual was just arresting, because the players were spaced around the field, and around the circle in the middle of the field, and they were standing for the most part with fists, raised raised, and it was just a very well done protest or very well done statement the League. Is Supportive. It not only allowed the players that encourage the players to do this. MLS according to the Institute for Diversity and Ethics in sports has the highest grade in terms of its racial composition of its offices of coaching staffs. The MLS is about two-thirds people of color which includes Latino players and black players, and we say black because there are. They aren't all African Americans, and so it is much more progressive than say. Football and we're seeing that in the support, the players have gotten, and even some of the cash contributions. The players gotten. Will you know that's of course? What I I thought you know all these players fists raise eight minutes forty six seconds, which is an unbearably long amount of time, and then you know you have the image of Colin Kaepernick kneeling all by himself, and nobody doing anything about other leagues whose players might now be protesting. Well an interesting one that gets less attention than their brothers in the NBA is the WNBA and they're doing a lot black lives matter when may resume, and they will have a version of the bubble like the NBA has, but it will be played in a large Sports Academy in Florida, but they will have black lives matter painted on the courts. They will have slogans like say her name and back lives matter on their warm up jerseys now. Interestingly, there is one owner who is objecting to this, and it is the owner of the Atlanta dream. Team called the Atlanta dream because of mlk and I have a dream, but the owner is Kelly Laughlin. Who is the Republican Senator from Georgia's? She's written to the WNBA president requesting an American flag also be put on players. Jerseys Laughlin of course supported by Donald Trump. She faces a reelection fight. So, what did you say in the beginning the political intersecting with sports very much so? Well and just you mentioned the WNBA. We spoke with Renee Montgomery, one of the players. In women's basketball. You Know Yukon just top player. WHO said I got to go? I I'm going to go work on social justice and the leaks seems to embrace that Maya more. The you know the player who did it before. Her so what about other athletes making statements by not playing? You've got Ian Desmond. We've spoken of the Biracial Colorado Rockies outfielder. Who says how can hang? The focus has to be on racial justice, not the game other athletes Don't think it's safe. Because the coronavirus, those two stories again intersecting, so talk about athletes, not playing. Yes in terms of players, there are those w NBA players that you mentioned, but in terms of athletes opting out specifically and only for reasons of social justice. It's rare. NBA athletes are voicing opinions and Kyrie. Irving, who wouldn't play this year? Essentially intimating he, he wouldn't play even if he were healthy because of social justice, but there are I'm not saying that there isn't fat component. There's a lot of stress on players, and if they have a health concern combined with what's going on society, they are more apt to maybe opt out, but I would also note if you look at how the have. The NBA has constructed. They'd schedule. They didn't invite all the teams back. So you see the teams that have almost no chance of making the playoffs at teams like the Brooklyn Nets or the Washington Wizards who would have to win almost all their games. Games and then get a few breaks to make the playoffs. A lot of players on those teams are saying that given that all we're going to do is show up. Play four games and then go home again. It's not worth it some of them for health reasons, four or five players on the Brooklyn Nets, some of whom have had covert and have tested for covert twice are opting out, so the health reasons are playing a role in baseball Desmond's the only one I know of who is doing it essentially for reasons of social justice, or at least racial concern, but they're very prominent players who are opting out Mike Trout. Greatest player in baseball hasn't made a decision yet. Yeah, and of course we just got a few seconds here, but we'll wait to see what the fans are doing because we have this weird thing in American sports, most of the players in major sports, football, basketball, or black, most of the fans in most cities are white, so be interesting to see in a few seconds that we have the fancy. Yeah and also nothing has gone easier than expected. Let's remember so for all these plans. Even the MLS tournament that started will continue Eugene known. Like here now sports alice who host the daily podcast. The gist at sleep dot com might thanks always. You're welcome. Every Week! There's something to talk about in sports. Even sports on being play here now is a production of NPR IN WBZ association with the BBC World. Service. I'm Robin Young I'm Jeremy Hobson this is here now.

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Best Of (Xavier Woods joins the show, Fritz Pollard Alliance statement, Lamar Jackson, Joe Burrow, Trevor Lawrence)

Skip and Shannon: Undisputed

57:46 min | 1 year ago

Best Of (Xavier Woods joins the show, Fritz Pollard Alliance statement, Lamar Jackson, Joe Burrow, Trevor Lawrence)

"Welcome to the undisputed podcast. I'm your host Jenny Taft. This podcast is a condensed version of today's episode of undisputed handpicked with the best segments and discussions skip Shannon. Let's go we're now joined by Cowboy Safety Xavier Woods so good to have have you should be playing in the Super Bowl. You'll be happy. Come off the top but I hope you're welcome but you also from Louisiana so curious areas watching the game last night. What did you make as big day for the state of Zanna main grown up? I wasn't fan but now as day for the reason we I haven't won anything by the way I have traveled enough to have gone through your hometown. which is more North Central Louisiana Monroe? Right that's how you say it monroe because while they're robe robe they say Monroe right morals so when you were growing up did you hate LSU or was there rivalry or how did you feel about going to the Georgia Fan. Okay Great Green those okay. Oh I looked up those guys but Definitely like shoot but growing up me now. He's the hometown win the home state. Win Okay I mean we've been let down a lot okay. So I'm assuming a recruit you out of Monroe Louisiana Tech Doc which just down the road and rust me open up grab between from the especially into the league. Obviously blessed to be able to go to Louisiana. Take Alumna so we're you rooting last night for Lsu. Pick way to go so before. We look ahead with Mike. McCarthy lists look back do what I considered a highly disappointing eight eight season just gut feeling what was the biggest reason you finished eight nine just GonNa put it together We have the talent we had talent. from top to bottom from coaches to the staff to the players just didn't put it together Just GonNa win those games when we got down down just couldn't come back I it was not is not solely on one person. I mean you get this great goal would be Jason Gues- but it's on us. I Maine do agree with the premise of it was always something is missing but the defense could not take the ball away at key moments and I don't know how you teach that I I don't know how you coach it but you are obviously playing safety part of it. Did it start to eat at you. We we gotta take the ball away and we're not so how. How do you say let's go? Take the ball away today or tonight. With as a pros and cons pros is in focus. More I'll take an Baas away and trying to get cosby forced worse worse than football You just do too much and things happening. Start guessing and stuff like that. And that's what started happening. We started forced to me personally. Started Force I on the back end but I mean we missed out of Chicago. Game was terrible news to her band. You can't blame them when coach go out there and we miss tackles give thirty are and that's not that's players. You know you turn Mitchell trubisky inch Lamar Jackson that going and but this one of the players and all in all we just completed together Jason Garrett would you coach off Lee lost his job and you mentioned the term scapegoat and it seems like when things went well he got Lou created when things went bad. He got all the blame. What do you think of Jason Garrett as a coach well as these things go you don't get no credit important leader but he's players coach You won't find a handful of guys in room that doesn't like them doesn't like him as a person I love him. He believed in me. I mean he had to come around. I mean he drafted me so I would never go against guy that me leaving me. And I'm loyal to that Guy because this is coming up but sometimes you enjoy engine building breeze a breeze. Something Different Doubly he was a problem. No W just in putting together. Yes do you believe. You started to tune out his pre-game messages. Like you've heard him so many times they start to go in one ear and out the other end. Coast Yep Anchorman internally. Then something's wrong with you. So he's his. I mean he's not the fiery guy no he's not going to be the guy that makes your heart pound on the game. His speech is consistent. It's the same every wait so you knew what you're going from But I mean he's not going to be the guy that the base in wasn't he's the Nice Scott in the world but I don't believe anybody in your locker room feared him feared his retribution. If you've missed all those tackles Chicago because he's not going to yell and scream after the game or we're on Tuesday or Wednesday or Thursday but I mean I will say no. That's not the reason Christmas Audi because the he's got he's got that we fear that not nowadays fear but he's the guy that will holler. Were those we miss. Those type of women make mistakes and I mean he's a place for both head. Coach is not that guy but then you gotta the DC or the president is by the way. Would you like to see Chris. Rashard get a head. Coaching job. Definitely definitely definitely. He's deserving of it which you know let's be real coach. Was the guy that all all the time Jerry. That's why you're tuned out Jason Garrett be continue anything because who could I mean. He's the boss. No no he jeers. Debunks Jerry's Neil Jared Joerg okay bye. Oh come on all right so you have a new leader and we hope. He's not the same as the leader. But Mike McCarthy I thought was pretty impressive even the opening Prescott. Did you attend or walk right so early. Gut Feeling on Mike McCarthy. I energy like I say new energy. He's won before. Is that cachet in the locker room when he walks and he's got a ring now Yulia definitely. That's how that's how we treat shot. When he came in he won't rain? Had One of the best defense is ever as how you treat winners when you bring in a whole new staff so definitely new engine the building new staff on me. I don't know why this is going to be it. They haven't told us three four or four three we all know. Oh by the staff that he's assembled already They they have some stuff with them. Has Some stuff about Mike. Nolan Your D. I don't know that the thanks decent. It's been rocking doc. And Rolling for some time now. I'm sure you were going to switch your scheme to it. Three four. Because that's all he's ever coached and teach so I don't know that for we. You won't be running. They're coming through that we've been running those guys. Don't run that right now. So I'm excited to to see we'll be running. Surprised has been look. I get it Kris K.. From Seattle and they will cover one lert Robert Team. But that's not that's not that's not what you gotta believe what you guys were good at. But that's what he coached Are you surprised that you didn't switch it up more. We're not good at cutting. We are a good cover one cover one. Three eighteen is sometimes system me. Update sometime this off when you update and when you say means against the seahawks and foreign and honestly just run the same thing they make sense different mixing that come before dolls that Gogi Hunt Dog. Two dollars to DaMarcus demarcus Lawrence had a half a sack over the last seven games again. He could double team way well. Somebody's gotTa get Home Robert Grunt Barbara Quick. Look here. I want him to about dogs. Now guess what here too ages. And they've got him one hundred dollars. I need to give me about who you are now. Lost his mother went down but the production. The defense way down and decent offense was afraid of dealer. Come on now you know with the game Bob up to Italian the the right tackle. Look I need you all to take the ball guys. y'All got skip skilled yelling at me all year long. Let me speak because Y'all catching the males you can get the ball me. Personally I draw four. You did me yeah. That's not why I WANNA be. I WANNA get hit won't do the AH described Dak.. Prescott is the leader of your football team. How would what's your view of him? Phenomenal phenomenal guys. You've listen to guys you're going to follow guys Longley by accident and not just words He's a great leader greatly. He's I went in the door out as I mean that's small but then your mind is like my quarterbacks in here I want to be great for him to you have a close relationship with them. Yes move from the same state Wrong not go out now go out to dinner every night or something like that. Yeah what did you think Zeke's year ear. Because I was a little disappointed. I wanted to lead the league in rushing after he got paid. And how did you see his season season win. Good I mean that came came out passing the ball phenomenal year that was working for some works. Y Y Y change he won't he. Won't you throw for a five thousand yards and wolves eat Roy for two thousand which you and I both know is impossible but some some has some has some has a masterful national S. northern running so you are making big predictions about next year. We'll be innocent. Well there we go. Well that people take that Vegas thank you might be in Tampa Tampa Tampa. I don't Oh care where we'll be able to take. You can get tickets. You'll be there be two not that we won't be that two he'll be he'll be to stay with me day. By the way Shannon. We got a real coach. The man got a real code ring on us. Thank you might have a couple because you know what my team does. It just rides the roller coaster for every other year goes away up and then it goes way down this time to go up where you been down here. Hey Babe the bad news. He just said they are going to be in the Super Bowl. As CLO- trouble rebel lowers the number one guy. Say Oh the best we can. We'll take it one game at a time. He's taking a one season at a no in the confidence good energy in the building. That goes a long way so we really appreciate you saying please positioning is as defense. GotTa do by being more from the you got a Lotta guys. Get McDonald's over there Is it big guy but a lot of guys making big donald over there for nothing. This year we appreciate your feeling These guys could keep you for the rest of the show. But that's all the time we have passed the after the browns filled the NFL's final head. Coaching vacancy with Heavens Defense Givi. Fritz Power Alliance issued a statement yesterday urging the NFL to boost use their quote abysmal. Record hiring minorities the statement. Also said that the League's quote current system of hiring and promoting talent into the upper levels of NFL management. It is a flawed system. We cannot expect fairness if business remains status quo Shannon. What is your reaction to this surprised? Ride the use the term abysmal abysmal. Because that's what it is and as I said last week. Skip until you have a more diverse. People that are that can have more diverse looking the people that doesn't necessarily look like them talk like bill act like them. This is what you're going to get get. We automatically knew when we heard Marvin Lewis had interviewed for the Dallas Cowboys. What are the the first thing? I thought that was a box. They had to check. That seems to be the reoccurring themes give every time that minority gold we ought to we're so conditioned of they just checking the box. It skip if I didn't no but before he was calling plays on Sunday I could avoid with calling blaze now. He plays defense. If I'm not mistaken businesses. Second Year on the job. He was so bad at the job of the year before that they brought in Gary Kubiak to oversee. He'll he gets a head coaching job. But Oh that's that's the reason this is. WHY CLEVELAND IS GOING TO BE CLEVELAND? They'RE GONNA do Cleveland Brown things and guess what two years from now. We'll we'll be back in the same situation against kitten until skill until you get more minorities in positions that they can hire minorities or people of Color. You're going to have this gift. It used to be that way in the movie industry where women can't lead until you got more women directors and against what you guys get one of the woman. All blind can't lead. They will have no moving movie. And then you got a riot Kugler and he got Black Panther they could do it if these studios just gave them a chance studio. We all starting to give women and minorities more chances and you're seeing more diverse movie cast. Oh wow a billion dollars but the ooh million. The billion dollars wonder woman. That's what you're going to have to do skip until you get general managers. MVP's because it's like well. I don't even know how they get promoted. Because it's supposed rose to be skilled not only coaches front office so GM's a president VP's all of those supposed to go through that channel of the Rooney rule must give them now. The Rooney only route become a joke. They come in to check about day. We got to see him. We had let them see him coming in the front door. Just ask him a few questions sent him on his way. We checked that box awesome. We've moved on campus. A joke is really a joke. That and the likelihood if you lose your job as a black oh you got to wake myself eight years. Well you get another job These guys why guys lose their job and they go. Guess what laws job here. He didn't get him another job. And if they okay good NFL So I bring them up off and on the show but my longtime friend John Wootton recently retired as the head of the Fritz Pollard. Alliance who was the driving force force behind the original Rooney rule spoke to him yesterday and he drove home. The point to me that remember the Rooney rule worked for a long time. It actually worked at a pretty eighty high level because as recently as twenty eighteen not that long ago there were eight minority head coaches in the league including Ron Rivera. Right as as recently as twenty fifteen there were seven black general managers in the National Football League not great but not terrible like it is now right so his point was it was kind of working for the longest time and then all of a sudden we just lost it. Everything went went white on the news. I'm using but back to Stansky and back to your point. Gary Kubiak was the driving force behind their offense this year. That's all Mike Zimmer has ever talked about is he turned around our life. He changed kirk cousins life. Yes Gary Gary Kubiak did he call plays unruly calls. Some of the plays I look like Stefanski was mostly with the headset on. But was the game plan from Gary Kubiak S. So how much control does defense key really have. But guess what. He's become a close friend of Paul de Podesta of moneyball fame baseball fame on new Paul when he was under Billy Bean in Oakland but Paul is an integral part now. He's survived a bunch of regimes with the Cleveland Brown. Right and where did Paul go to school. He went to a Harvard and worded. Stefanski go to school. You went to Penn.. So they're like Ivy League rather end right and Paul pushed hard to hire cabin a year ago when they elevated you know who for any kid shakes and so he pushed again. And this time he won Kevin's Fan Ski. Let's bring him in and watch what happens. What what is what a Stefanski ever done in this league to show? He's going to be a great head. Coach show me. Please show me somebody over him to oversee to overseeing overseeing them and then we're back to do I have to keep beating the quote Unquote Dead Horse. But Matt Rule One nothing big temple and absolutely nothing big at Baylor he quote unquote turn them around and that qualified him. How for a contract? That's what is almost ten million a year with the innocence right right. Yeah okay. What did he do to qualify for a head coaching job? Nothing right Joe Judge. He talks tough talks a big game. It's not a good conver- sounded good out again. He's a chip off. Bill checks blocked but he's way down the list. He's a special team slash wide receivers branch off the trees. You Know He Lina. He's elite. You WanNa go Manzini you cornell. You'RE GONNA go bill. O'Brien okay. I get that okay so John Drove home. The point to me that do you realize in the superbowl superbowl. The odds are we're going to have to minority coordinators facing each other Robert Solid verses. Eric Bonhomie and we didn't get one minority head coach. Meyer hire a registered essay. I think seventy little over seventy percent of the players in NFL African American okay. What's the likelihood you'd think the fifty percent of forty five percent? You see when you see. That doesn't never. That'll never now just to let all the division around. You had four African American quarterbacks when you go to the play but are you good enough to coach the players. That looked like you. Jim Call up call where the heck of a job I bet the lions bands Wednesday could go to the playoffs. Why Jim Call? We'll head them. Two of the four years that he was there. We're ninety seven lost his job. Now we go see how long before Steve He will. Marvin Lewis Jim. Call will get another job. They've lost their jobs. Good point maybe won't happen. Yeah you're right. So you mentioned black quarterbacks. We've seen great sort of progress. There was a time when we just barely had. They can think on the feet. They don't process information faster. And then all of a sudden we okay. Yeah but you gotta give them a chance. Give them a chance. You got me let me give you. Let me give him mad. We give them a chance. Okay I told you. I spent a week once upon a time where I worked at the La Times in Ruston Louisiana Zanna had grambling university with Doug Williams his kid that nobody really knew and I talked one. GM WHO said they don't have the mental skills to play quarterback and in all he did was become the first black quarterback to win a super bowl. And that was sort of the breakthrough moment. And now. It's it's pretty good like whatever diversity diversity we have at quarterback in the NFL is not being mirrored at head coach or especially at general manager. You can be the line. When the Shufu Suzhou you can work for the restaurant? You can't be the face of the restaurant and that's all I'm saying so the pinnacle cynical was reached after the two thousand six season in the Super Bowl. When we had Tony Dungy Verses Love Great and Tony Obviously broke through and won? He loves his job. Why wouldn't let me go eight in Tampa and he lost his job to his coordinator? Let Vicki I I give you one guess because of the coordinator Okay and Mike Tomlin did win a super bowl berth. Steel Yeah so and had them competitive all all year long Given the injuries with the quarterback Jude. UBS DOT COM being out the injuries that they go through. But Mike Tomlin is more the the anomaly then the norm black widow normally get that kind of time now. The steelers is organization. They don't really like the fire that's why they've had three coaches since nineteen sixty nine. Choke nobil cower. Mike Tomlin but and I and I tell people like look at look at Marvin. You don't remember what the bengals worth you'll remember. Got You cope with this game. You've been around. You know in the biggest before we got onto the marlins problem was. He went over seven in the playoffs right. But he made the plow seven times for a bad franchise. Ah Yes a mom and pop. IOS Asia's that's run cheaply so he deserves clearly. I like more in fact I was pushing. I wouldn't have minded if Jerry Jones at ARD Marvin Lewis Career so highly of him brown cheap. You can go with overpass giving parliament overpass Bingo practice. You can construe so. I mentioned this earlier but the Institute for Diversity and Ethics in sports their racial report card for last year. That doesn't include this hiring month right but but a plus for minority assistance d-plus for head coaches in the national football league. Well what is this okay. Probably I don't know the the front office but I I do. If you're given a plus for assistance that that means the pipeline is full of young could be of any minority but a lot of a young black assistance. Who are coming up in there? Maybe they're better than Kevin Stefanski right. You can sit next to the man. You can't beat a may be you. Beat assist the rich guys. Lamar Jackson season while it came to an early and after being upset by the titans in the divisional round last week looking at how to next season though there are differing opinions on what we will see from Lamar. One anonymous coach said Lamar's improvement in the passing game will continue to progress like it did from last year to this year. However another coach said that Lamar's passing numbers? This season were or do mostly due to mostly playing with a lead and being able to make plays within the flow of an offensive Shannon. How do you feel L. About Lamar? Now feel the same as I did going into the game with feel coming out skip you know so many people waiting for this moment skill to say I told you so. So they'll describe everything that he did over the course of a season and then put all the competency. I told you in one game but they said exact same thing last year when they play the chargers. See I I told you. He should have stayed in where he should've running back. It should have been a receiver. And then he improved leaves. Him Brown's I believe he can still improve. He understands he needs to become even better. Great pro football. He understands he needs to get rid of the football sometimes in the pocket and not always wait to try to get the home. Run down down the field. He understands he can't take those hits. It's slight sooner. Get Out of bounds. Sooner get what what does this mean. A lot of play came when they had the lead or the Florida game. Shouldn't that how y'all his art art nuclear should have really everybody Dak Prescott. Threw bubbles five thousand yards. I call them Garba Jars because he's behind in the fourth quarter now who criticize Lamar Jackson for having the lead giving his team lead in the fourth quarter for playing forgetting his yards his touchdown throughout the flow. Loa game. Now that's a drawback. Every other quarterback that gives their yardage or touchdown in the flow of the game. That's unbelievable he doesn't do anything outside outside of the game. Now you Lamar Jackson for that. This is so ridiculous. I just can't believe that people would actually sit back. People sit back at home. That is young. It feels I if you WANNA critique is play if you want to say he didn't play well okay so be it. I got no problem because you know. Offer harsh critique analysis of any player player regardless of position but skip the sit back and hope man. I sure hope they lose. Because there's going to be my opportunity and it seems like there's all he duggleby we. Why not every quarterback improved? Did you say that when Peyton manning lows forty one nothing to jets goes from here forty one nothing. You didn't say that Komo Guy Play Sixteen. Unbelievable Gay had an unbelievable season and now after one game you ready to write him off you hope that he fades away will Llahu that he comes back even better than what it was last year. Because this is ridiculous okay just for the record. You were pretty hard on him yesterday you said he deserves the bulk of the blast and that he played his MVP standards yes poorly right. Yes okay this is just me and I don't know what to read into. Those anonymous quotes quotes. I don't think they want him to fail. I think they're just trying to be smart like to see the future because you don't have to put your name on it right. You're saying I'm cool. I'm going to tell you they're going to struggle because he can't come back and I thought you yesterday on this. I didn't think his numbers numbers on Saturday night. were garbage numbers or empty calorie count numbers. I think he can come back and I know they don't want to throw fifty nine sometimes but he made a bunch of good second half throws. But let's put this in some perspective. What happened a year ago? He was not ready for the chargers in a playoff off game because he was a rookie quarterback who'd never played in a playoff game and the chargers last year especially were really good on defense until they got to foxborough but they were really good all year and they show you how good they were against him so he wasn't ready for that game but his team wasn't ready on Saturday night because we talked about three weeks off. Everybody's a little off kilter everybody's a little out of sync a little louder rhythm and his first pass to mark Andrews who might maybe three weeks before for he makes that catch fingertips and it results in an interception and it changes the whole flow of the game and then he threw a bad pick and then he'd lost you detail yesterday. He lost the bad funnel because he lost giral Casey behind him and he just forgotten. He's going to try to make a play and you're getting a little desperate because you didn't know you're going to get hit in the mouth like that. They were playing extremely physically and mentally tough football team. That is a buzzsaw right now. That was coming off a hot wind up in foxborough borough and it was the wrong place and the wrong time for a Baltimore Ravens team. That had an extraordinary regular season that ended three weeks before they weren't ready for the onslaught and the problem. We're trying to come back against that team. Obviously is number twenty two plays for the other. Ta It is hard to come back on that. Because he's just going to punish you you can't tackle in the meuse runs like a deer and it's going to be so relentless list that it's going to defeat you. Psychologically and so he's not getting a lot of help from his defense or is that's not the Ravens Office. Their office isn't a drawback sixty times. Now I know my point is I was highly impressed with his growth as a parent or this year and I thought Y- a- any other team if they fell behind what were the phone scores Twenty eight to twelve. I forget what it was at some point but could he come back on some other teams. That would get up. Could they've come back on Cleveland. As long as they lost forty to twenty five he could throw them back in a game. And I don't doubt he'll get better and better throwing the folks give if you look at him last year when he lost it to charge remember he went to he went to Laney. Lady beat the chargers the first time around so they get a crack at it skills. I can see if it was like four or five games skill. They got tape on you. They got twenty three days worth tape. So it's not like they're not well we don't know what he can do. You did that. He's going to win the MVP. He did that. How many scale how many outlets and say the last twenty years we've seen a guy that just all of a sudden he win the MVP because wor yeah? Stop it I got. I'm not saying he's got five. MVP's like manny three light brady or even two but the try to discount him for what he did this season because of one game they lost. Ain't nobody saying anything. What Tom Brady can bounce back? Yeah they brought him in their building and nobody said anything I wanted to. Tom Bows Bag. But because the Lamar because it's dollars or unorthodox they run more than they pass. He's not as proficient born the ball. He's good but he's not as good throwing the ball. All is the with his leg. We understand that but if he just incrementally get better he will get to year twelve. What he did with his legs on Saturday night was extraordinary? Twenty Times for one hundred forty three yards. There's one play up the sideline when he made a Dory Jackson Jackson. Look silly stopping. He just stopped cold and windy rice. Like put him on his back without even having a touch right well. That's just nobody. Nobody else can do that. You had the two best running backs in the game on the field design time one guy does it one way and one guy. Is that a whole. It's thunder and lightning the thing when you look at Mahomes okay. Once they got the lead they were still throw it. He got though yards in the floor of the game. That's their offense okay. Well Lamar Jackson. What what they do is they run? They force you try to okay. We got to commit more to the boxer. Take away the road. They got tight ends. They can run and get seem Hollywood bragging over the top and he picks you apart. That's kind of like what a quarterback does when breaking run the ball. What is working play action now? He's throwing the ball down the field but they try to minimize what this guy's been able to do you have to evolve. You have to reinvent yourself year after year in the really good ones because braid is not the same guy skipped. He was not always a a a screen guy de dup down to the bank. They catch a fifty sixty balls. That's not what he was he. The Brady used to when he had a moss. Now man the field but you evolves giving you reinvent yourself okay you take that away. I'll find another way to beat you and I believe the market do that but wildly. You may need to me that I think he's good enough. Got Sixteen Games teams had sixteen games to try to figure them out. They they did he lost. He didn't play particular will he picked his worst. He picked the worst day to have his worst game in the playoffs. It just happened. Drew brees the week before he played his worst games company when he went home only to now neither one of them have been anything to write home about. Well how many what would pay his first playoff game. What did I used to? You say you said nobody said anything about Peyton. I used to beat this desk for years back at the old show about Peyton. Manning never lived up to his greg his regular season in the post that he was the all time. Greatest regular season quarterback who couldn't live up in the postseason right okay and it didn't didn't happen until he went to Denver and had a real defense and completely. Reinvented the way he was throwing the football right right. I mean he you know he won that that breakthrough season I think in two thousand album six two thousand six hundred two thousand seven and they had to go through it. It took him. He had to go because he couldn't get through Tom in order for him people like finally he had to go through Tom. You know he finally did with the different had to do it twice and he did it. I got it so even though I picked the titans I told you I was going to be deflated. If we'RE GONNA lose Lamar from the tournament because Fox has got to roll now. I wanted to see more on the super bowl so it did this. Put a little bit of a damper around him winning the MVP did it kind of little. I don't really like to see the. Mvp I kind of want to see him. Do it be a remote from his hotel room. Because he's getting ready for the game. I mean you gotta go. You gotta go all the way back to Kurt Warner before you had the last super bowl. MVP The won. The Super Bowl met Ryan. He didn't win. No I'm Brady. He didn't we it so it's kind of like the heisman. You Win The heisman. Although Joe burrowed right it made them eat their word right but a lot of times. The heisman winner will have our time in the postseason because the banks. He's eating more and more than practicing Eh. It'd be really going to where it's just a team. Skipper teams have two weeks to prepare. You know you have an update going Joe. Borough took them all the hardware this season. The heisman winner showed a big in the national championship game. Last night against Clemson borough had four hundred and in sixty five yards through the air and five touchdowns and he ran went in as well L. C. ended up winning the title. Forty two to twenty five over the reigning Champs Borough six exceed passing touchdowns this season the most by any QB in College History Fox college football analysts Reggie Bush joining us now. Reggie did rural have the greatest latest college season by quarterback ever. I think he did you. Just say sixty touchdowns on the season unbelievable sixty five and total. It'll touchdowns and it's the way they did it. It's the teams that they they'd be seven ranked teams from Florida Auburn Bama Georgia Oklahoma and and Clemson the number one scoring defense. They have all the accolades I think last night was just another example of why. He's a heisman trophy. Winning quarterback back why they were regarded as the best team. And I think also we gotta start to talk about this team as you know in the Congress is one of the greatest team ever Because of just what they were able to do and how they were able to diastolic dissect are a lot of these defenses in. SEC is extremely dreamily. Impressive job. Once again showcase to us the whole world again. Why he's you know? One of the best is going to be the number one draft pick To Cincinnati Bengals. Good luck down there. But but yeah. I think this is the greatest season by any quarterback ever. Well I'M GONNA take it a step further. I think it's the greatest college season ever by player. I think the only one that could've come close would have been buried. Sanders had national title. His twenty six hundred yards rushing score over twenty six hundred yard rushing skill. It didn't count the two twenty five that he got in a bowl game handiwork anyone because he won the heisman but if you look at Joe Borough in totality give. I'm not saying who had the most talented will Cam Newton. Whether one man game well look at this young and what he he did. I'm talking about the greatest season ever in totality sixty touchdowns pass which is a record sixty five total which is a record the second best completion leisure percentage ever the third most passing yards ever over six thousand yards Biz young season. Skip that they're talking about jober or had two thousand the more yards in twenty seven more touchdowns. Kay he had seventeen hundred more yards. Import team more touchdown Cam Newton. So you tap. That would a heisman win win. A national title with all of this in totality skip is not even close his last three games eighteen touchdowns zero interceptions the number to scoring defense the number one scoring defense and a blue blood in Oklahoma. It's give you do any more than what he did. A top ten teams. He completed seventy ninety five percent of his passes. Three hundred ninety eight yards a game twenty seven touchdowns two interceptions with somebody more talented shore with was somebody may be a better player to shore but nobody had a better season than this. I defy you about everything you gotta put his yard. Ardi completion percentage the husband the nicer the title the seven top ten teams that he beat at the time that they played them. Nobody's even close skill. Nobody's close. I've got two words for you. Cuyler Murray not even not even close not even close a year ago. Not even close collar Murray had the greatest this Qbr in the history of Qbr's ninety three point six. That's one says okay. But it's everything in Iran for a thousand and one yards and it counts else. What do you do any when he got blown out? Had the worst good team defense I've ever seen ever seen with give you that. I'm just saying and you can say I bleed. Oh you you do cream because I was born and raised in Oklahoma fan but I gotta defend him because it was just a year ago that you because you never give him any credit right at all for anything. He had an incredible rookie season this year. And you thought it was garbage and okay. Yeah it was just okay. It was extraordinarily should be the runaway rookie. You're they're going to run that bad football team to do what he did for them. Starting with a tie of the Detroit. Lions in Game One and play in San Francisco to the wire twice. Are you kidding me. Klis Kingsbury team to joy to the Arizona. Do why did they have. If they're still almost those head. They almost had the same record in Detroit. So I love Qbr because it encompasses everything a quarterback does so he had the number one Qbr in the history of the stat. Okay Okay Joe. Borough had the sixth highest okay and others on the list that you would know. Russell Wilson was third highest in his one college the Wisconsin season two this this year had a better qbr. He had a ninety two just slightly. Better Than Joe Borough at Ninety One and I missed Andrew Luck also had a ninety one. Borough was ninety point eight so my point is that keiler season was extraordinary because he stepped into the shoes of the heisman winner at the same school and he was a transfer in he'd he'd been there for a year and he took it up a notch from what Baker Mayfield did which the year before a lot of people thought that was the greatest. Were also transferred. I know skip. You know you all you can hang it on. What about his completion percentage where they're better than Joe's didn't offer more touchdowns DITTO for more yards? D have more win guy called sales with Ah. QBR Did anybody even come. Close to beating so against Alabama in the second elder you talked about in the national through for Thrill Weight and ran for one hundred hundred and nine. So that's four hundred. Seventeen total yards against that Bama Saint Nick Defense and there was no Hollywood Brown that night in Ginny knows how much how valuable Hollywood Brown was to collar because he was unstoppable. Didn't realize how injured you big gadget had over. Five hundred against the number ones Gordon D in the country they give a one fifty one pass it. They gave up nine total touchdowns and fourteen gain that Guy Jizhong five on them had another touchdown drop and it took him. I thought he was extraordinary. especially coming off such a mediocre year year at Lsu and his first yes skill but when you add this this guilt sixty touchdowns with six peek through. What was he was forty? Two two seven. He did not win one through interception Kyla ran for twelve touchdowns four fifty fifty four to six thousand not even close. Oh sixty sixty five close. Well it's it's in the ballpark the ballpark. You know you said and popcorn feel. They voted him all apart. We got two different jobs. So you believe you believe twelve hundred yards is throwing another thirteen. Does skill cuyler was extraordinary yards per attempt. Eleven point six for caller ten point for this kid in this kid's got you WanNa talk about wide receivers everytime I looked up. There's another WHOA. WHOA WHOA WHOA? Whoa you just talked about Hollywood Brown Holly Barges with the one gay so CD lamb? You know the last two years he's been in a couple of I'm not mistaken. CD Lamb are chase was Hollywood and he got hurt yeah. He got hurt in a championship game but he played up until then. We'll champ the big twelve year between yes. Twelve the game right. Yes so he played up until then okay so missile missing eighteen hundred yards passing. What I'm saying is he threw for three hundred eight with no Hollywood in the national semifinals? Oh took him to the woodshed on. I don't think they would have. Did you see what he did Georgia. Championship Game Yeah. We thought we'd never seen it. They would disarm Watson. The Sean threw for four twenty six to three any took her knee. I'll give you this just throwing the football. Nobody's ever had a greater season in this just throwing it. I don't think the totality combined everything that a quarterback does if you put in its totality. No player has ever had a season like this skill. Not Because you said he got the best. QBR since they've been taking that the second best completion completion percentage the most touchdown passes the most total touchdowns six thousand yards total wealth extraordinary national championship. Take account he can run the football to last. Ask at one point. That was their offense. Was Joe Borough quarterback running slowly. He's got sneaky clever sort of quickness out of the pocket at six four he does. Yeah yes look. There's some unbelievable season to season that a young had and what he did in the championship games are originally. That was unbelievable. Tarver Auto Tommie Frazier was going to say. Vince is performance. That night against you guys was the greatest single solo performer. I've ever seen you. It is it was just he. He knows him Max after the game he just a Huda Sonia shoulders and said I'm going to do. Obviously he ran for the final touchdown for eighteen yards away. Felt like you're watching it. You WanNa say his performance. That game was the greatest. Okay I'll give you that but for a season bodywork seat does ask you. I was impressive. Fifty from wasn't him last year from fifty fifty seven do with sixty six It's over and this is the guy who felt you third-string at Ohio state and then graduated three years was a quote unquote free agent in Nebraska. Where his father played said now? Now here's what happened with me and my research and my he brought me some information on one hand So that took him out of the running to beat a back up and so the got the advantage Haskins got the advantage of being able to play yes was and again it was jt bear. I knew you were going to beat out. Jt sometimes skip. YEP everybody I want to go here. Sometimes it's better. Were you go than when you go. Yeah he went to the right play go to Nebraska. And we'd never heard Joe Grow Up. I don't know of Joe Birth Moody got drafted skilled but he went to the right place. You go there right. Those Thr- receivers a look at just like tour business. Not Alabama's Obama offense Alabama three yards and a cloud of dust. But they bring in tour. They get judy. And Smith erodes and all those guys and they changed wattle they changed the way. LSU As you was three yards and a cloud of this net positive remit even when they had old ellen landry tall okay and think how fortuitous notice it was. The coach took his staff to talk to the saints and try to pick their brains about offense of ideas. And there's a low level assistant gopher gopher for Shawn Payne operating became the Tom Brady assistant coaches. There's no assistant in the history. Three of college football has had more impact than he had on this kid right away and I think that's the most impressive part is this is a professional. NFL style off right. It's the same office miss that we ran in New Orleans that they're running right now the office that helped us to win the Super Bowl. Yup and then you see that's what I think was probably going to have coaches and GM's excited because he's he's already making these. NFL type throws in read. And he's throwing receivers open. He's not waiting for them to get open if I'm going to coach here's my new salary. Negotiating this is my new salary. I really appreciate you. He just turned thirty years of age. I just is readily to where someone asks. Do you have an agent. He's like oh no no I don't I don't need an edge until now everybody over Taylor in. Here's pretty special guys. Joe Boroughs six total touchdowns last night cemented. His spot as the favourite be the number one overall pick in the NFL draft. This April on the other side of the ball last night Trevor Lawrence who suffered the first loss of his college career career and most experts have already pegged the sophomore quarterback to be next year's a number one overall picks. Or Reggie when you look at these guys who will be the better. NFL fell quarterback Lawrence. Borough will let me say it is if they were both coming out in his draft. Joe Be one trevor. Lawrence would be too same thing. If it was next year it could be vice versa. I don't think you can go wrong with our the quarterback they both bring something significant to this game. And I think they're both GonNa have great careers. But what I. I saw Joe Borough last night. I saw quarterback who won the mental battle. This is the first time I think I've seen him under this much. Duress all season They hit hit him. They sacked them gotten his face. They tried to make it ugly as they possibly could. They threw a bunch of blitzes out them and they threw the kitchen sink and he's still came out on top. And that's the thing that you're most excited about when you watch him play because how many times. NFL Games go through these. Evan Flows IOS where quarterbacks needs to be mentally tough they have to be able to just on the fly they have to be able to now scramble out of pressure and and make those throws down the a football field and he can do it all. There's nothing that I saw from him that he cannot do this season and because he's operating. NFL style offense. That's the other part that gets people excited because again like I said this is an NFL star off and said he's running and he's making NFL type throws he's doing his receivers open even when bb's draped all over them he's putting that ball and places where only here's the receivers can get that and we saw that time and time again this season and we saw one more time on a big stage last night. I'm GonNa give a slight light aged borough skip. I love his demeanor. I mean his demeanor on the field skipped not Sela Tori when he was ringside of the pointing in Texas but he kind of reminds you allow because because they got his face early there were a lot of scat protection. And you guys run a lot of scat protection. And what teams do they lie to blitz you out of it. They'll make you keep an extra guy in so you don't get all five or received with eligible Bercy without. He took some hits. They confused him early. Ask them incompletion at one point five. You never see job. He normally starts the game level of Libya Libya Fourteen of sixteen. But they had him off kilter but he didn't alter he didn't bleak. He didn't lose I love. I love that in a quarterback because because everybody can play when things are going great. Let's not pool. That's everybody getting Gordon. Early get it cooking. Everybody can cook. But he didn't have it going early but he stayed the of course he then a pro Israel and pro style offense making pro pro style throws with Prost our reads. So I'm GonNa give me skip. We look it up. Did you know tallest quarterback inappropriate ball of fame is six foot four Aikman Dan Marino tallest elway six three thousand six three the Jim Kelly six three and don't think about that. Trevor Lawrence is would be prototypical six foot six to twenty which means his frame can hold thirty five to forty. But I'M GONNA take Joe Burrow because he's six three he's more APP four six six four. I love his athleticism coming into the seascape. I didn't realize this athletic until I really what you know. You had an opportunity to just sit down and watch him against Alabama and I saw saw them use his legs covered with acute just like last night a key. He didn't throw. He ran for. Okay if you look at the guy what are they all the gather in the final four Sundays get looking they all do all moving run. Garoppolo can move. Rogers doesn't move as much as he wants. Tanny Hill and Um homeboy showed you Sunday with fifty three yards rushing. So I'm gonNA give a slight edge. I saw some things with Trevor Lawrence. I didn't like last night. I saw some throws. I saw a bunch of erotic. Arctic through D Hic et higgins maze of acrobatic catches or. They wouldn't be even more accurate overthrows so that was a little concerning for the first time he got tested and he didn't really pass last night so I'm GonNa give a slight edge. Both of them. Don't go to bed team's Joe Burgo. Cincinnati he Alco. Oh major green leaving what I got here receivers. Iot might need to bring everyone Jason. Do you ever get. He will love it. That story a great fit. Did you just compare Joe Borough to ally manning no his demeanor skippy. Yeah he's nothing he didn't get to Eli ever do. That's what I'm saying raised never did go to your job was like in the Wax Museum book here. Macaulay Culkin's had cookie exactly where we look alike. But you don't like you say he lacks Paul. Allow you get nothing good or bad. You don't even know if he talk about thirty five down by forty. Two ernestine walks into the living room. Last night. I was watching the game. She stopped and looked at him and said home alone. They had not heard that. Oh right funny photo. Grown up a little taller DART snow so I am not being prisoner the moment to say this I have been tweeting about it. We haven't done it on the show until the last topic yesterday. But I told you when I picked. LSU that Joe. Borough is much better than Trevor Lawns. This you just said it's not even close to Joe. Borough had the greatest season ever for quarterback or maybe any player. This is not even close. Joe Borough will be a much better header. NFL quarterback than Trevor Lawrence. I have had issues with Trevor Lawrence all year. I've been tweeting about it all year. I tweeted about it after the Ohio State win which he he turned around after the loan. Td Roy get well. I mean after the the ejection visit came right after and he bolted it away for sixty seven yards in. It changed the game. If you let him get unwound with those long legs of his he can fly. It looks like run. Four five ish to me but he runs kamikaze style. He doesn't protect himself at all. You the way he was running last night will not work in your league. It will not last. Just because Joe Borough was running smart he would just get down time to get down he just slides. He's not GonNa take anybody on what they call them. That's why the ball and he tried wrote over guy the guy. I don't think he's going to be nearly as effective runner as Joe. Borough will be at the next level right and Trevor Lawrence is not an Accurate Passer Book It. He's just not accurate he has had T- Higgins at six four. He's Got Justin. Ross at six feet four inches tall and both of them are basketball lepers and he's thrown a lot of jump balls that they have come down with Szostak this morning I think is. ESPN step but he overthrew thirteen impasses last night and it was the most any college game this whole year. But I'm not being prisoner of that moment. He's been doing that all humanly in his career. But he gets away with it. Because of the two big stud receivers. Both of them are going to be really good in the NFL especially two years. But the point is I don't see feel for the game. I don't see finesse. Feel where you can throw nice screens or or have a feel for how to play quarterback. I I'm going to be surprised if he's the first pick in the draft after a year from now who's going to beat them. I don't know somebody's GonNa talk themselves out of this because I'm not sure this is going to work in the NFL. I'm not saying he's going to be bad but he's not going to be. What the other kid is Joe Borough is he is may talk for? He's got ta go. Great is going to depend on which the nature of which which team he goes to. What kind of ways all it always comes down? It was very tough to go into organization especially picked usually go into the worst team in usually there's issues with either the coaching staff or just the chemistry or the maybe the organization. The mentality of it can be a lot of different things that can affect his his his first couple of years and league so we don't know we'll have a crystal ball but from what I've seen last night aimed close Joe Borough normally get when you get the first overall pick you normally. I second year coach. You not and fifteen record number one overall pick because if you and you get the number one overall pick and you can fire the company with a new coach anyway. If Laura's have the big bigger arm with Joe Montana armies proves ple- plenty good in this joe boroughs this arm a little better than Montana's to me. Sometimes you gotTa have a Patrick. Mahomes Law John L.. We are no no you just just get it. They're here then undisciplined. You ask the most important thing not arm strength anticipation because you gotta look guys are not going to be wide open like they are in college. You gotTA throw guys open and if you lay them all as Lamar Jackson when he threw it out could get. You Ain't got to get you gotta throw you better throw. They'RE GONNA be small windows. You gotTA anticipate that guys coming open and let the ball go before he's actually open because if you wait too he's open to throw. It is not always picked. Decided nope Imagine Marchese. Went to work on work on him less. They tried to hide it to to get them geared to go there if they don't give him some help over the top man eh denies going to get even longer. I would put Simmons on them get some some listen. I don't care how great you are. You struggling a game give the man some help. Yeah okay I got needs. We'll get out just in Jeff when I was in just the could do it because I'm not letting get eighty more years. You glad coach and Bro found each other. It's just the way it all wrapped popped up. He was asked after the game. What borough Lsu and he said he means the world to us? I couldn't have been used for another meal in the State of Louisiana. Never saying And he's one of the greatest players in the history greatest. What why he'll be? Billy King is men in one thousand nine. The galloping goes the great goals they call it. That's what he called. Billy Kelly can every five star quarterback and at his disposal. You will for the next ten years because it is around but it's gonna be hard skilled for other for other programs could normally go in there and steal a couple of players from Louisiana. It's GonNa be hard. We hire now coach. Oh gotta Doc. He goes down to New Orleans. No more going this deal. About Yeah Clinton Higgins one of those receivers maybe eagles a raw yup from Alabama because he got Alabama but coach Joe. He's strikes you of a guy that you just WanNa play for. Yeah we just WANNA hang out with them. I mean I love devs well. It was like two inches that you can't really say anything bad about. In my opinion it was fun to watch. Reggie good stuff today and all season job. No thanks for listening to the undisputed podcast. I'm Johnny Taft Join. Join US again at the same time tomorrow morning. Nine thirty eastern a sea of up one of learning.

football National Football League Joe Borough NFL Joe MVP LSU Trevor Lawrence Steve He Lamar Jackson Lamar Peyton manning Alabama Paul de Podesta GM Guy Jizhong Kevin Stefanski Jerry Jones CLEVELAND
Week's Best (LeBron vs. Brady, NFL coaching jobs, Patriots/Titans, Dak's contract, Cowboys' next head coach)

Skip and Shannon: Undisputed

55:17 min | 1 year ago

Week's Best (LeBron vs. Brady, NFL coaching jobs, Patriots/Titans, Dak's contract, Cowboys' next head coach)

"Welcome to the weekend edition of the undisputed podcast on your host Johnny Taft. Today's podcast features features all the best segments from this week sleet of undisputed with end up interviews and discussions. We have a lot to talk about heading into next week. Skip Shannon. Let's get the two thousand nine comes to a close today. Lebron James was named the Associated Press Male. Athlete of the decade Lebron's three championships have have all come in the past ten years and no other player has won as many games as the king in that stretch. Lebron was a runaway winner. Distancing SINZIG himself. Tom Brady for the award shedded. I must start with you here. Did they get it right right. I don't even know who else running I mean. Everybody else should just say. Take me out of the running because you know your head. No chance moon book getting Beijing. You had no chance of winning him him in real. who had no chance of winning London? No chance of can't hold on by the two thousand twenty nine judge straight first team all NBA as straight file of the peers is something that hasn't been done since the old fifty sixty celtics and it did it with two different teams three finals. Be Peace Three regulars needs an MVP discussion. What are we discussing? I know you done. I understand you and because you know you have first place votes. That's why you get you know. Second play got really if you just said okay. You just can't first place votes. We already know who the ban it was runaway. They say landslide so it wasn't even close so it was a bigger so bigger bigger than when Reagan beat Mondale. Though that they say I I don't think anybody even knew it. Would it be eighty four. I don't think he won his home state of Minnesota. You should be ashamed of yourself that you would even wrote the subject if you know what you still have been chasing engaged. I'll give you that. He learned the contract to January fourteen. So let me get the last little bit of laughed. Thirteen days out before he probably ceremony league he give him to become an adult really. Know who who else could have even been in discussion. After what we just witnessed Ni- he went to every file except one he's the first team all NBA everyday said one of the MVP. Three regularly repeat no further question. Thank you might turn Tom Brady. Eighty clearly deserve to be a male athlete of the decade because he had so much extraordinary success at the highest levels of his motor. Neuron Ron while Lebron James suffered so many epic failures through this decade. And I'M GONNA start with those. Because the blind witnesses led by I lose Shannon Sharpe tend to sanitize these from the record. Sweep them under that. Little Rug you keep over there for Lebron Sake and let's start with twenty ten that counts counts. Yes playoffs when Lebron and company. Two Games to one on the Boston Celtics remember this and Lebron shrank and games. Four four five and six and Dan Gilbert his owner accused him of quitting on the Cleveland. Cavaliers in that series and Kevin Garnett now the star of uncut gems. Recently we said just a couple of weeks ago. We broke Lebron in that series. Does that count in the decade. That's an epic fail to me. which led to the decision which sled to Lebron and dwayne sitting on the stage and Lebron saying not five not six not seven remember that led to twenty eleven I go around with the heat versus the Dallas Mavericks Mavericks Epic Meltdown in the NBA Finals Versus The Dallas Mavericks? The chosen one turned into the frozen one right on schedule and games. Four four five and six games two one half L. takes how can you wipe that. How can you expunge that from his record happening in this decade? Then let's go to twenty did breakthrough against the twenty twelve against the baby thunder. I baby baby 2013 without the clutches. Gotcha shot ever hit by Ray Allen. Lebron James is now two and seven and files because this simply there it is. I hate to see it again. Chris Bosh out to my great bag. Nothing but net net and that saved Lebron who had just Blah brick to three point. It shot that could have tied at the Senate overtime that saved Lebron from going to and seven in finals. Now we go to twenty fourteen. The next year my spurs blew out lebrons. Iran's Miami Heat by a record finals margin in five games and I dare anybody to go look at the tape. When it's one to one going back to Miami Games three and four helped me out? What did Lebron do in those two games? Not much shrank. He disappeared in those games and all of a sudden they get blown off the floor by a record. Finals Arnold's margin which brings me to twenty fifteen. Lebron had golden state down two games to one and I said this is going to be his shining moment. This is going to be his right through. MJ moment when he joined the all-time conversation of WHO's the greatest between Jordan and Lebron he's up two games to one with game four in his house house. And what did you do in that game. Seven for twenty two one for four from three five for ten from the free throw line and they got blown out by twenty one points in. What's now the the Eagle Game? In which Steve Kerr inserted Yup Yup remember that compelling points giver then they lose the next thirteen in the last game by eight and boom boom. He's out again again. These are epic failures. Twenty Seventeen Remember K. D. Lebron's house just rose above him and game this game three and Lebron's house and shot at right in his face to take over basketball and become the MVP of the finals and the best player on the planet with that. I guess most people are now which led to twenty eight eighteen game one that debacle at Oracle and the finals remember what happened. Lebron gets the switch onto little tiny steph and Lebron's out of his mind at that point. He scored forty nine points and they had the hottest hand from distance. I've ever seen him have in any playoff game. And he opts not to shoot the do or Dashon because they're down one and instead kicks it to George Hill who of course misses his second free throw which leads to the JR Smith Blunder which leads to Lebron quitting on his team sitting aside from his team down the row pouting and wouldn't shoot for the first two and a half minutes of overtime and manage to go for for the rest of the way and overtime and they lost the overtime seventeen to seven and got swept in a series. I thought they could have won if they had one game. Well I'm just so. These are epic meltdown which led to last year. He comes to La. And he's chasing Michael Jordan. I believe and he goes twenty. Eight and twenty seven in the Games. He played for the fairly young Lakers but I thought at least he could get them in the playoffs and incited young. Lakers doing in Pelican but we will. They're hurt right now. So so the point is that we were left with a blooper. Reel of Lebron James last year could we just see it real quickly just to remind everybody steered it throws it off the backboard and bounce off the backboard wait a second Kuzbass to shove him out to play three point defense playing no defense last year rolling rolling a ball up the floor kicking a hall house. Lebron what are you doing. And then Mario Has Zonja in the garden. It makes him eat it. What are you doing Lebron? This is the athlete of the Bulgakov. Hold up yes yes in two thousand ten and the Division Division round of the Playoffs Yoga. Tom Brady lost the JOE FLACCO. Hey Joe FLACCO lost Ray Lewis. That's not that's not the JOE FLACCO that you call Joe FLACCO. Okay okay. Did he followed up next year in FLACCO. Do the flower upset of autism to staff. Would you don't you as it. I'm just GonNa ask you questions that once I'm done with trying to pull back and then the following year if you type in Buck bumble this gap yeah. pitcher comes up. Did Bill Bumble Bee. Tom Brady not just WANNA know of Joe. FLACCO and Mark Sanchez. Which I'm going to don't answer that 'cause not to turn your shit? Joe flacco is going to the postseason hall of fame. There's no such nick foles. Yeah Nick foles got beat up. Garner Manchu Garnham Radio Radio that got to downtown. I know you're not gonNA say WHOA. WHOA WHOA WHOA? WHOA WHOA WHOA stop now? And the guy that you said led the League in interceptions three times lawsuit job to a rookie this year. Eli Manning to die down twice. No that didn't count the decade only one counter doing. We're just doing this past decade skill. He took him down one twenty. Okay Okay Nick. foles known twenty eleven. Yeah Yeah what's took him down. Yeah who took him now the second to Oh okay tell me when it's returns you. Now he keeps talking about how the Mavericks beat Lebron James He. He didn't mention that that same mavericks team swept swept two-time Defending Champ Lakers four games. Now whatever the best player on the planet they swept the two-time talk defending champ two time. MVP and beat the brakes off of the thunder not five nonsense. I'm just saying so when you add up. The totality Taliban one guy got three regular-season. MVP One guy got three skip. You might have had another compelling cave head he not play like stir fry Last Super Bowl Julian Edelman with a super bowl. Mvp I quit. He played like stir-fry. Thank you my turn. Tom Brady in this decade. That is ending in tonight. Eight straight. AFC Championship Games. That's way better than going to eighth straight finals. The L- Eastern cod eight straight. AFC Championship Games. It's my turn. Okay including the one in the fourth quarter in which they trail Jacksonville twenty to ten. That's when they were Saxon. Vilna the best defense in pro football. What did Tom Doing? The fourth quarter with twelve stitches in his throwing hand cut that week. He goes one hundred thirty eight yards passing for or two touchdowns and they roar back to win twenty four to twenty. It was extraordinary. What did he do last year at Kansas City in overtime against Patrick Mahomes and company not against Patrick Mahomes on defense? Obviously he completed. Tom Brady three straight third intense. It's virtually impossible to do that. To lead them down for the touchdown that won the game on the road against the MVP team. Now let's go back to the Super Bowl when you talk about eleven. Tom Brady is up on. Eli Seventeen to fifteen with four minutes left in the game and he throws the ball up the seem to wes welker and it wasn't the most on target house that Tomlin's ever thrown life but even Shannon in sharp said you know what you gotta catch that you got both hands on it. Shannon Sharpe puts that in his back pocket in his front pocket. Because that's a catchable pass pass and if he catches that pass. We're having a different conversation about the second. Eli Twenty Fourteen. What happened to gets the Legion of boom in the fourth quarter? Tom Brady is down. Twenty four to fourteen and he throws a hundred and thirty. I'm sorry one twenty four and two touchdowns against the Legion of boom and they come from twenty four fourteen down to win the football game. That's extraordinary to me. Atlanta obviously happen next in two thousand sixteen. They're down twenty eight to three. Whatever the two hundred fifteen the fourth quarter and overtime? I'm just going to the ones that they won or played great in but there are a whole bunch of those what happened. He goes twenty one of twenty seven in the fourth quarter and overtime for two hundred and forty six yards just in those two segments fourth quarter and overtime to forty-six and they come from twenty eight three down to win another super bowl. Then the Super Bowl and question that you talk about Bill Bell checks defense allows forty. He won points to the backup quarterback Philadelphia Forty one point. Wait a second. Tom Brady froze for an all time. Playoff record five live. Oh five not just a super bowl. I'm talking about an all time. Playoff record five five and puts up thirty three the most ever scored by a super bowl loser. Because Belichick's defense gave up forty cleven about Lebron's going fifty one points in a finals game with the most points by but hairdryer not quite finished. Finished still my turn. Last year. He played lock dog ear. Oh wait a second going up against the best defense in the NFL at that point Wade Phillips had been his nemesis has been his whole career and yet. What did Tom Finally do? Mid Fourth quarter he said I am going to crack the code. He goes four for four for sixty seven yards on the drive. That wins the football game game winning drive and puts them up ten to three and it's game over on the head when thank you. Don't vote against the fourth it quarter matter three-game. Hit it again. I WanNa hit his extraordinary when I compare resumes. How could you not give we? Have Tom Brady athlete of the decade. It's not even close to hold on even clubs. I it the other way. It's as you say the Legion of boom. You said he was down twenty four to fourteen and he ended up winning. The game. Did did the Score anymore points. Tom Brady play defense visit so I was wondering one thing before we know Jenny. Janet the changes up so she's interesting because she knows you're in trouble. I just ask you a simple question. Who who had a better defense in two thousand Fourteen Legion ables Seattle seahawks or last year's a la rams better defense? Well that's a close call. You tell Aaron dollars the best player in all of football. Wow I mean you had so you had Richard Sherman with all pro camps jesuits all pro wagon was all pro. You had that Fearsome Front for Earl Roy. Thomas also went to the pro bowl that year so you had like five guys. Six guys on the defense decided okay. I'll go with that. Thank you and Tom Brady so but last year. For some reason you can only get pinpoints. Thirteen points well I mean. Did that win the game to win the game yeah. I'm not four. Four eight the pass of the game. What would you say was the past of the Super Bowl? Oh so they're going to grow will will will follow eighth straight. AFC Title Game Eighth Straight NBA Finals. You know least concocted. uh-huh oh I think I want you to have difficult days here that 'cause I know John this is at least conference joy l. a. b. so when it comes loved MVP. I want to hear the thing about winning Eastern Conference here by Joel Embiid at least one conference game. But they weren't there through the decade matter. Yeah Yeah Homo. Back in two thousand four hundred ten twenty we raise the the prayed yeah. Of course you'd like Jelly be. I'm bad loan. La I have a request. Maybe we don't show the Lebron blooper reel anymore. Twenty twenty dogs tiger was the I want to bring up. Joe FLACCO be beaten. Are they want to bring up there. I didn't WanNa bring you think I wanted to bring up bugged Bobo beaten Tom. Brady resume what we're coast numbers in the postseason over. They skip all time all time during uranium. If you go look at that Game Joe FLACCO had like twenty. Qbr these pick and had ninety one young the super bowl the Dirk Nowitzki winners Mo the Golden State Warriors Win Championships Kevin Durant MVP. WHO's the most unique office player that we've ever seen and you pair him with the two-time unanimous? MVP A guy that can catch US shoot like nobody else Klay Thompson and the utility to four tonight and Draymond and you say Lebron you gotTa beat that is better Jordan or not. What can you tell me? He's better Jordan name. A team that Jordan be that was caught to the warriors. If you put Jordan on the cavaliers against that warriors team he would have beaten them you in the East Bay Celtics in the big the big three in the bad boy pistons you give. He joined by himself when he was the cavaliers basically by himself I thought he got out. Lebron being we wanted it all day we really could there so yeah well I. Coaching vacancy of the offseason has been filled as the redskins officially announced Rivera as their new head coach yesterday. However Mike Freeman pointed out on bleacher report? That Rivera is one of only four minority head coaches in the NFL. Along with Brian. Flora's Mike Tomlin Anthony Land while there were a record. Eight minority head coaches as recently as twenty eighteen freeman. Also points out. That coaches of color are now turning down interviews for jobs because they believe these interviews are quote. Sham's so Shannon your reaction to this. There's some merit to skip. I think the spirit of the Rooney rule is is in the right place. At least give them minorities Black people call a Hispanic and Ron Rivera of Hispanic descent Give them an opportunity to get their foot in the door because before they were not even getting their foot in the door. And if I'm not mistaken skip I think the Rooney rule was implemented. Oh Two oh three something of that nature right now. There's thirty two. NFL head coach is just for our minorities. diffused in the last sixty years. The thing is going to have to change the people that do the Harry. Yeah there's one of the thirty two general managers. There's one of color. That's Chris Grand Miami. The thirty two owners. There's no no color so you get someone because there's GonNa be familiarity skill. It's going GonNa be somebody familiar with. I know I know it sounds Cliche as a shame and I agree with my say that somebody got cut. Sometimes I believe is just okay. Okay let me just check the box. Just say I did have one in your having no no intentions of hiring him but until you get more. African American minorities authorities of color in the general manager position and until we can get Robert Smith and Oprah and Jay Z. Tobia Club skip. I skip his skill. Telematic Alamein is worth ten billion dollars. Who the hell I mean I I get it but Jerry Jones is gonNA? We've comfortable with Shad Khan and all these. They're going to have who they're comfortable with them. Sorry I can give you better explanation but it comes down to what it is. They're going to have somebody that they're comfortable with and governor getting in the position that they can have influence one general manager so quick question in. Yes why do so many white NBA owners hire men of color to coach their basketball teams which they might or might not be socially comfortable. I I have no idea because but if you look at skill you look at the. NBA is predominantly African Americans. And they have a lot of black coaches but you look at the entertainment you look at the entertainment at the All Star Game. NBA and look at the table for the Super Bowl. I know it's a totally different. Gotten and the thing is keeping them like. Hold on how you have said that percents. African Americans play the game but what ten percent five percent coaching. Well throwing pitcher skipping is just that maybe the the NBA owners the more forward thinking. Maybe the the players have more power. I don't know what it is but there's something I mean. Four thirty two was it. Eight percent of my math was a until that changes. Because I just don't know how you tell a billionaire who Who you are correct so I got to strong points? I would like to make first of all. I texted with my friend. John Wooten who I've known forever covered covered him forever when he was the GM of the Dallas Cowboys and he is now the retired ahead of the Fritz Pollard. Alliance and I believe that John Wooten was most responsible for pushing through this ruining rules at least requires. NFL owners to interview candidates of color in John's response to me about four out of thirty. Two's morning it is hurtful. The owners must commit that they are going to be open to giving opportunity to men of color as the face of their franchise. Is We have guys ready to go. These are African American candidates for head coaches Eric Enemy in Kansas City. The coordinator Chris Rashard the defense since coordinator in Dallas Robert saw obviously the coordinator in San Francisco. Now Jim Caldwell who has been successful coach in this league. Steve Wilks did not get a fair shake in Arizona and got one and done terrel Austin. WHO's in Pittsburgh and ready to go as a potential head coach and of course Marvin Lewis? who was a longtime time is up and down? Successful head. Coach deserves another us with Herman Edwards at Arizona State this year and John Wootton concludes in his text to me only one. GM is heartbreaking. Because that's the bottom line used one. Gm Right so now the flip side of this. The only silver lining is is the annual report from the Institute for Diversity and Ethics in sport in which they grade the NFL on its head coaches. And it's assistant coach hiring. Do they give this year's head coach hiring a deep loss. This is for this past year and assistant coach hiring they give the NFL and a+ Woo d plus for head. Coach is a plus for assistance. So they're in the pipeline as they say right they're coming up but these owners they have sheep think to them and they want the next thing and so they're looking at WHO's successful as a black head coach right now well Bryan Force was coming alive. Have you been on my. They went five and four to finish right and they did beat those eagles and they went up to bell check and beat bell check brisket. What are they won't? They won't hotshot young offensive. They won't the Lincoln Riley they want. The Josh mcdaniels the shock okay. Who was the most most of the most of the coaches become what side of the ball? Mike Mike Tomlin but Mike Tomlin went eight nate. This year Anthony Lynn. Who played with? He went five and eleven this year. So they're not saying and I need another Tomlin not now not that that happened right before right. So this is the one that baffles me. How is Matt Rule? Rule the head coach at Baylor University. The hottest thing going in head coach. I I don't get it Matt. What are you talking about is like when somebody push your May? My there I know catch goes crazy. He assistant offensive line coach for the giants for one year. Twenty twelve. He turned around Temple and people are giving him credit credit for turning around Baylor from its scandal. Sure but it still there up thirty one to ten on my Oklahoma sooners at halftime at home and they lost and then they lost to them in the championship ship game. They lost to Georgia. I don't know I don't get it. It's not like he's sitting the College Ferrari world on pro okay. But he's the hot candidate and of color collar. Nobody we're not hearing. I don't have any and the thing is like you can be a hot candidate if you like. Chris are but if you have you out the rate on the WBZ What Creek. He's what he did. He did get an interview with the job. Yes and I don't know. Is it a Rooney rule. Kind of interview. I'll know skip until you get people in position that can do hiring. I mean look. They're only a handful skip. Let's get right down to it. They're a handful of the coaches. How many coaches are by Bob? La made by Jimmy Sexton so they're not poo poo. And so. Oh my God. Oh Hey guess what I got a job. I'm a higher him hire him. I'm a higher him so we just keep it revolving well you got to be the hot guy at the right time. Kush Rashard was a hot guy coming out of Seattle Legion of boom youngest. The coach of that defensive backfield and last year was kind of a Hawkeye when Dallas. What do you got a coup? Because this year yeah I agree. I mean that impacts him though when you're out in the playoffs and you don't have any. What's it called them? Josh mcdaniels GET RUN OUT OF DENVER. The terrible he was terrible at the horrid with the Rams he quit a job offs skip you. Did he acquitted debuted rather introduce about the press covers. The man no show yes. He come out of the again competed bridge. I want to see what he can do without. I questioned his mindset. But I want to see what he can do that Tom Brady 'cause I saw what he did with. Sam Bradford and I saw what he did in Denver with a forget the guy he was Chicago Chicago. I I forget what he did with. What do you do nothing? Who but who could go probably with reasonable we? I'm might not get to see what I hear you. Would you could get every librarian. Brett farve guys who came up on my like home retreat. But Mary John Gruden's job grew ray and reading it. It is interesting Eh. Saturday is not only the first time since two thousand nine that the Patriots will play on wild card weekend but it could also be Tom. Brady's last game as I. Patriot can't believe I'm saying that Brady is set to be an unrestricted free agent. After this season and cannot be franchise tag by New England when asked about his future. This this week Brady said that it has felt like a normal week. He remains focused on the titans. I'm not surprised that to say but Shannon if the Patriots do in in fact lose where. We'll Tom Brady. Be Playing. Season was good. But I don't believe you'd be planning to England and I've been on the record at the beginning of the season. Said I believe twenty years is all it is is going to be Tom. Limited in New England. I just believe that coach Belichick tried to coach. Belichick is normally. You're early and he was going to be two years early but I believe in his mind skipped. He felt they winning one superbowl with Jimmy worth more than two with Tom Brady. That's because they would have given him the cash it would have given him what he'd valued most that I get most credit for this dynasty. That is true. Tom Brady realized they'd been trying to wait each other out for the longest time scale. Because it's kind of like a coach. Walsh Joe Montana. Coach Walsh retired and then Joel goes on with another with George Safer will now. Joel gives credit. That's the way and so if it works because like why can't just ride this thing out skit. We won't create it. We won't create I E created. Give emme fifty one. Let him have forty nine. As long as I get the most we good. Yeah but the thing is and this is why coach. BELICHICK WANNA move on with Jimmy. Because Jimmy. Geez doing he understands like when you have a franchise quarterback all time great and you don't have a bridge to succession. You're going to spend as many us down as you spend up because Miami still hadn't found a replacement for Dan Marino. Dan Retired in two thousand and they still haven't found that yet. And that's what happened. Maybe Buffalo is just is now finding it after a killer retired in ninety seven. This is what he saw. He says you know what I can be ahead of the curve. I can have ten in twelve year. The Jimmy Garoppolo will another two three super bowls and we can keep keep rolling. I don't believe Mr Kraft's intervened this time around else. Give that there's going to be very interesting Ryan Tannehill unrestricted Fridge Cam. Newton Philip rivers all. These guys will be unrestricted. Fridges for me. Paint tend to heal would be a better a choice in new England if you don't WanNa go with them but I don't feel scenario skipped. Tom Brady is back with New England in a twenty twenty seater yet. Your your point. All season long to me is that Bella check would say no to break this. I think there's another scenario developing in which Brady would say no to the Patriots. I don't know if it's double check or crafter boat right. He would just say no. I'm out I'm okay. I'm an unrestricted free agent for the first time in my career. I'm going to go there so look I'll disqualify myself. I'm not objective about Tom. Brady so maybe this is. I'm a deep emotional place. That is not remotely objected. But I'm still angry about bell checks performance in in the Super Bowl that the patriots lost the eagles. Because it's just unconscionable to me that they gave up forty one points to nick foles while your your best defensive back is on the sidelines Malcolm Butler for reasons. We still can't quite get our wrap. Our heads around right and Tom Brady. Those goes for an all time playoff record five hundred five yards and puts up thirty three and loses forty one to thirty three. And I'm still that just sticks in my craw and I'm still angry about this this year in which I believe Bill Belichick gave Tom Brady Asari supporting cast. And and it feels a little like sabotage to me. But I'm over emotional about it but that's how it feels like but he did. He tried to get him a B.. And it lasted a one game and we know what happened Brooke and he had him Josh Gordon and then I don't know why they just cut bait but maybe they knew something was on the rise you know on the horizon and yet here we went and now he's out of the League League God bless them maybe for good and yet. This team is so bad. The supporting cast is so bad around Tom. That that I'm getting close to done with this whole scenario in New England and it feels like the dynasty is teetering about to just splinter apart and we both just picked Tennessee. See to win this game at Foxboro tomorrow night. It feels to me like both men need and deserve a fresh start like at this point in their careers and they're both deep into their careers. Obviously Tom's way deepened is and bill's going on seventy years of age wjr but they just need a shy to do what you said. Maybe it's for credit. Maybe for self satisfaction that I won without him right. I don't WanNa be attached to his hip all the way home because you always no matter what transpired you joined together coach coach check. The people will say your credit belongs to Tom. Brady Tom Brady. People will say you're crazy below the coach Bela Jay. That's just the way the story is going to be. There's no way around it. You've had too much success and you guys go hand in hand so whether you go to New England he leaves and goes somewhere to go to. I mean I. It'd be unbelievable if Tom could go somewhere else and win. Another super bowl that that would pretty much since it right. Woo Yeah okay. I want everybody to understand Tom. Brady is not like a son to bill Belco. They have nothing more than a working relationship. And I've heard that again and again from people very close to Tom. Brady that it still. It amuses him to the point of frustrates him. that he doesn't have any more relationship with bill. Bellas remember the came out with the NFL network with Aaron the all time the player and Tom came on coach Belichick and they was talking and talking about how great it was. Give me I think a lot of acting going on the go. Oh it was so great. You'll sit down and talk really really the main breeding a twenty year. You could sit down and talk anytime you want to. There's a cafeteria you can go. Sit Down and talk to the plea tab that you had opportunity to sit down and talk. I know for a fact. Tom Wondered why some off season bills didn't say let's play golf somewhere. They were paired together. One time in the about by George Beach pro-am. Oh you not by choice right okay. So they played. Because you're right it's coach. BELICHICK KNOWS GONNA come a time no matter how great the player ears does. I'm going to have to make a tough decision. It's like you always say about the general manning officer has to keep arms length. Keep it so you don't let your personal feelings get involved because Jerry obviously obviously just latest personal feelings let Jason Garrett Linger for years. Yeah because he loved him and Jair personal feeling towards Tony Romo. Jerry who issued Stephen had a tall Jerry and Tony go back into Jerry. Yeah so speaking of sons bill does have a real son named Steve. Who is the new? I think defensive coordinator at least he's the one album the signal doing Leeann noon. Good lately and I don't know how bills getting a pass for that. But God bless bless him let them go and be together then he can have a real son and they can go see if they can win a super bowl together. Is it going to be a New England. Could it be long shot in Dallas. I just I believe and I have from the start that Tom Brady would be the perfect fit for the Los Angeles chargers as they go to that new stadium out here in Los Angeles next year. You need read a marquee selling Volvos. Glue they pay. Didn't pay with Bronco Tall. You and my mom and the Denver after all the negative nasty things. You've said about him Do you realize eh you pick up him and father time at baggage claim level together all the time all the time in New England. Okay I I got a year maybe a year. Maybe he could have eight next year. That would be a year. We know not painting this last the last year. Pay Not the first one of those three years. That was something that doesn't forty-three years of age point and Tom doesn't have the Ninja that we know Wolf. We don't agree. I think they both need to start fresh. They've earned it and let's see it next year. I sometimes get when you're in a relationship chip you don't realize how valuable the other party is until you separate and the you light you know. Yeah and we could be seeing that all. I knows that Joe Montana wound up in Kansas City. Knew it was pretty good last year. All right so it happens. Let's see let's see this game Saturday. And then we'll have money talk about after prescot still doesn't have a new contract despite having the best season of his career. The Dallas quarterback had a career high thirty thirty touchdowns and ended up. Just one yard shy of the cowboys. Single season record for passing yards however it was the worst season for deck when it comes to wins and losses assist was the first time he didn't have a record above five hundred former cowboys. DVD Orlando skeptic is still with us so Orlando when you think about this. Just one season impact his contract negotiations in a positive way. Anything paid a man If you don't WanNa pay him and you haven't seen enough let them go somewhere else at at this point. What are we doing? You want to turn into a kirk cousins situation. You WanNa make the potential of the the blowers are do you. I WanNa say this is the direction franchise is going in is my new. I want my new head coach. Sold on them. I want them to be bonded. I want them to be together. I want them to have the type of relationship that we all imagined. When I say imagine when I say the name you know why I say imagine we want them to have the type of relationship that Tom and belichick chair have in our minds and have had for so many years. The the kid is great. He's come in and he's exceeded all expectations. Even if you don't think he's worth the thirty thirty five or forty million then you go back and say well we're well we're repaying him for what he's done. The last four years for me he looked is hard for me to envision. The situation is that he didn't give them a pay cut. At the beginning of the season he navigates the minefield he gets off the field. He's healthy so so basically only thing that could have derailed him. He has a credit Straw. He has an ACL key lease or shoulder. Major shoulder surgery. Okay now look. We don't know what you're GONNA do. But he's like hold on wait a minute carson. Wentz is one of the division twice. He got paid Jerry. Golf is one of the Vision I think twice. He got paid. Now I just want WanNa know what the holdup is. You see the differences is that those two guys identified their guy. We believe in you. You'RE GONNA pay you Jerry. Jones seems to be somewhat with the holdup. Is there probably telling him planning Dallas quarterback your mark. Your marketability is more no state taxes. But I don't WanNa hear none of that Carson wentz number two who picking draft number one picking Jeff Som- already twenty twenty five million behind the eight ball so sum up this year. How much blame does Dak deserve for eight? He's a quarterback I mean he's showed her all the blame for you know missing some throws because he misses throws. And you'll be the first one to tell you not gonNA use injury as a as a As an excuse but at the same time he has deficiencies he has flaws as all of us. Humans do and I can assure you knowing him like I know him. He's going to work towards it. And I genuinely. I believe that he's the guy. And if you don't think he's the guy is franchise to talk about it a little bit franchise so we talked. That's not good for anybody. I don't know a situation that that's worked out. Nope so I believe in the Big Picture Jerry Jones blue this because I believe this deal should have gotten done not even during camp before cancer cancer last off season if you had had beaten a curve before the curve started going higher started getting their money if you had headed added this all off at the pass if you given this kid his his do and his money because he had done it already. I was completely sold and I believe Jerry was sold in the off season last off season but no. He's a hard bitten. Tough negotiator tough. You know what and so are back in his representative for it so it became an impasse and I believe it hurt. DAX performance a little bit this year because he made lots of throws but he didn't make enough the throw pro at the moment and you can't tell me he wasn't pressing lading absolutely anything in life. It's just coming in here. You coming here. I'm coming here and I'm thinking you know I security and. I'm just going to come and do my job and do what I'm paid to do. A post to. I gotta be perfect every day. So right I can prove them that I deserved. He wasn't free mentally really. When push came to say from personal he's going into my fourth year and going through camp and things like that before I did sign my first big time track? It was like I gotta be perfect. I gotTA show him. I got this I gotta prove it every day and then when you get it it's just like now is that you believe in a lot of people believe that was bred. I think that was a better than cousins. They should've gave him a deal comparable to cousin. No no no no no no no no no no no no even. If you don't put a guarantee you give them a deal comparables look you making five hundred. You're making five hundred thousand dollars a year. Somebody come to you except you're taking that you say cousin's cousin. Twenty eight and a half. I'm not taking twenty eight and a half when at the time I'm sitting there and I'm looking at Carson coming up here but Carson didn't get his money get the money to this year I'm seeing was was once golf. Got His own. We've got his gall got here. The market is going here. Dad Wasn't gonNA give you know discount. If you're making five hundred thousand somebody comes to you with seventy five degrees. It's hard argued. Walk away from the eight absolutely is but you've got to look at the bigger picture and Kirk. Cousins was a prime example of looking at the bigger picture and he was able to wait. Wait wait wait wait. Wait is my time. He was able take that twenty eight and a half million a year because two years of franchise tag so so make that into a five year fully guaranteed thing though what was kirk cousins that vacuum you three being big. When he went through two years I don't think deck is opposed to going through? Here's thirty million dollars a year because because because they're very good yes you your team. Is Betting against you. That you're not what they think you are. Because they believe in you they give you the money who has played a little franchise tags. I can't even think of exactly on. I would ever work stream my thanksgiving even if you give the guy a little money early you can get off Monday Ryan Ryan Tannehill got paid but it was so structured so they could get out from under you got to pay. You got to pay these guys early because if you wait late and he built himself MHM way better than Ryan tannehill apples and oranges. But I'm saying they gave them a little bit and give them all the way market value but they got not too early back is not gonNA take less than market value. If you teach tannahill then you talking about. They should pay him before you know. I'm saying no. That's what I'm saying. I'm saying you go to him early. One of the Vision for your three times down. What else do you need? This is the problem. This is a problem. Is this big roller coaster with Dallas super bowl or bus every year so his first year thirteen eighteen and three second year eight thirty year. Okay now we he looked. He looked ninety seven ninety seven. He looked bad before. They got Amari Cooper. So now they get Amari cooper he looks good again and now at this point he's sitting there and now he's looking at Carson. wentz is thirty million or thirty two million a year now. That's the number and I think like both of you said I think they should sucked it up and if he was the garden just pay them. Sometimes you've got to bite the bullet because the market is not coming down. It's not like what because air you see Aaron Rodgers they get arises. Hey two years left on his deal you see Seattle. He had the deal going to him in signing him early. But did you let this guy get to the the contract. You can't make an excuse of we want to have a contract that's able to put him. It's not my job to to structure a contract to put people around so his numbers this year off the charts everywhere except eight and eight and Jerry's going to use eight against him because Jerry will negocio hint tag me a okay okay. Well what is coming to know what's going to be you know how you if you take meat and you lose some art remember. The defense did not live up to what we thought at all to be. And Zeke did not live up to what I expected him to be deleted. The League in rushing don't were still comes back on some Uber's out front somewhat so those Uber's is fourth the good way rights. That's not front today. You've got to bite the bullet they let contra the lead Winston Golf so that in that my dad believe. He's as good if not better than those two guys. They got a hundred and fifty million wanted it to be done before the era and now I'm thinking about what if what if it had been taken care of and how it would have impact think you've seen him play comfortable level and make some place that one game. The ports are saying that Jason Garrett will not be part of the cowboys organization moving forward after Garrett had his fourth eight season. Season rumors have swirled around who Jerry Target as the next head coach urban. Meyer Sean Payton. And Lincoln Riley are if you prominent names that have been thrown out as this possibility so eric would you hire if you had the decision for the new head coach of the Dallas Cowboys. Well let's start off with would skip. I excape with low. What did you think about the Lincoln Riley? You think that you're thinking about. Hey I get to him and just Matt Rule Rule at Baylor I would think you Josh mcdaniels them people instead of using hosts around for a while I wouldn't I wouldn't hire him. My Guy and I said this months ago Urban Meyer I think urban Meyer fister Kabwe Mode. You know I think that when you look at Urban Meyer Costa Utah Utah. Because they're Florida now you know. He took the job in Florida. Because he looked at the roster over Notre Dame nothing about Notre Dame Florida. Don't you say I'll take no no. He took Florida become that roster as he looks at Dallas Cowboy Roster think he'd like he likes he likes this roster. You think about when you think about the the Cleveland. BROWNS CLEVELAND Browns Dallas cowboys clear. I think I'll take the cowboys up so I just feel like he's the best fit for the Dallas cowboys. I feel like that him and Jerry Jones could works. I know the Jerry wants all the power but I think it's seventy something years old jay like Super Bowl powers. I think I'll take super bowl. Bob So I just feel like that. Urban Meyer is a guy for that he even he looks at it. He has the Moly Modem me I think when you want a coach for the Dallas cowboys you need someone right now with like flash MCI. Everybody knows his name. He's not a guy like when you come frontally frontally little attention so I think for me and I'll say it this months ago. I hope I'm right. I Miss Cleo got me right well I just feel. Urban Meyer is a guy that coast in like it. You know I'll give a free first round of the I'm I'm trying to get Sean Payton New Orleans getting anything because the obscene side but a check that he'd be willing to ripe for a super bowl scale. Go take them seeing them now. Only you would have to give a draft pick compensation monetary compensation. If you were to do this. You probably have to pay Sean Payton somewhere between one hundred and twenty five and one hundred fifty million dollars. That's still seeing side of the check that he's going to have to write. And I believe Sean Payton could deliver Jit with Jerry ultimately the problem that Jerry had scale Jerry Ball team in one thousand nine hundred right brought the team in nineteen eighty nine it within five years. He had three roles so now that is true. I agree anybody so he starts. He started to believe that anybody could go to cowboys. Oh boy he said that not that easy he said. At one point there are one hundred coaches who could coach his team to a super right and he started. I believe that we ended up going to give them a talented roster. And if no there's so much more that goes into a talented roster and he's finding that out now because does he believes he's assembled a talent roster even talented last two to three years and what have you have to show for one playoff win and two division titles. That's not enough up for him when you had the ultimate success that he's add especially early when you win super bowls get. It's kind of like the Patriots The AFC East that's Nice Yeah the AFC title. But if you don't win super bowls when you had the success that they've had anything lists don't even matter to them they've super bowl a bus. What Jerry got that tastes early and so now that's what? He thinks that he should win. Every single year Bertha me. I'm doing everything I can to get Sean Payton. Because he needs to see oh he needs a guy that commands kids. Sean Payton will command that locker room. Respect he will they will know he's in charge and that board that used to get away with Jason Garrett Ain't happening on his watch so to your point if Jerry Jones managed to go to New Orleans and extract. Sean Payton away from the saints to the cowboys I would give you such a big. How about out the cowboys table so hard I was getting? That's how big that to happen to. We'd have to go get another the show. I might break my handle now close enough already and it's already a little black. Yeah the point is it just just seems pie in the sky too. Because I don't think New Orleans for any price would let him go right now. I don't know drew brees future. I don't know if they go win. The Super Bowl and I give them a shot. But I've loom. I give him a shot if they go win. The super bowl withdrew city. I'm going to walk into the sunset. 'cause I got Kids Coaching Coaching Little League football. I don't know I have no. I don't think so I don't think so sean. Say I'M GONNA give up total control with with a as you call her Miss Benson News. She's hands off right just days out of the way. Its run that team right okay. So why why would he give that up with. Drew brees is going to commit to playing a couple three more years. Why would he give that up to go to Dallas? I just don't see Jiggle Jiggle. Have like you say data live. He goes down the kitchen. Okay woody I don't know I don't seventy seven years of age at some point you got to give it up you really and truly want a super bowl At any cost well the cost may be your pride nego because you might have to just pull corral the way and I don't I don't thought Jerry for the roster. He's helped December right and he had something to do with it right. We'll play has become their draft right. Oscar I don't like what he did with his vitamin real. Quick Point is second round pick last year designed by remember what happened. I didn't know Tristan ill central Florida. He boy was the the problem with in central falls. They had problems with him and now he's become an even bigger problem for Dallas. Seems like a swing and a miss and remember that was the top pick. They had last year because they gave up the one for Mara. All right so my point is if you give up. Four I for Sean Payton. Would you sort of cut off your nose. Despite your face would you handicap yourself into go forward you just you just know that you're going to escape if they win two super bowl. Let's just say they don't have a first round pick until the year twenty twenty two but you win two of the next four super bowl. Okay can you guarantee me that. I'll take Sean Payton Sean. Payton can deliver that. Okay so my my gut feeling right now. Now is your gut feeling I do like the Urban Meyer possibility. I like the prospect of it. Because he's a big guy he he's he's one of those guys ginny knows been around when he walks in the room he commands. He would come in every locker room because he was wildly successful at all. Three college stops now again. He's not coached a lick of pro football and sometimes it doesn't work needed bears. Okay needed I. I Love Barry Switzer. Know him very well well. He walked in and he commanded the locker room. I promise you the point is that I believe urban such a big guy that he would walk in and be a success because he's always been successful and he does have charisma about him but he does he wants to control every last nuance of the franchise. Injury would have to get out of his way. I don't think he's personality would clash Jerry's because I'm around urban honor and how you feel but I think he he can sort of figure out how to get along. Yeah he's a great to be around. That is fun about this year being around him a little bit more knowing him on a personal level then coach but the thing that I can say that we talked a lot about this year is how how much you must the competitiveness and there's no better place to go competitive and handle the Prussian Dallas. He does tuned to burn. He already burns out right. The big about the okay. Thank about the pressure that he felt it Florida to win in Ohio state to win teen. Because that's the cows. Dallas Cowboy Doubt Ohio Tame compared to that can the cowboys of the national state and expectation. Now is that look at the roster given you you gotta go deliver ever. Because he'll be making ten plus me but I think I think he would deliver. I think when you look at Urban Meyer I think one thing he say. Okay I want if I if I'm him I said. Give me one thing and Gimme Bill Callahan. Back let's get Bill Callahan back here. Because I have Zeke. I know Zeke. We ran the ball better when we can give me give me that. I know the young players news at the draft draft draft. Some of them. I know these guys that other people don't Know Your Head Coach coaching. You know the guys at that man and why not in the League of my football team. I mean they're doing play. You don't put them in the right position so I feel like with with him. I just feel like that like you said I. I met Herbert for the first time. Here a couple of months ago and I never met him before right and I wanted to meet him he he wanted to meet me. I mean I like big urban Meyer Fan. I mean because my number two choice choice okay. Number three what about on Dab Dab away were you gotta where he he built a power down Clemson but just he want to walk away from that power who and the Urban Meyer thing to think about the to the personality so and and and to me I see urban almost like zero like that. Hey guys how's it going. You know a heck of a motivating gate Lincoln University of Oklahoma Fan. He has overseen three of the worst college defenses last three years. They just gave up seven. First Half touchdown passes to Joe Borough. I can't the score eighty points. Sixty three on 'em like right and finally one last name. That could become a possibility. Maybe a long shot possibility. The is if the Patriots lose tomorrow night which we both think they will. The dynasty could just splinter apart and Robert Kraft might have to make a choice between between the quarterback and the head coach going forward and if he somehow talks Brady into staying embel- check says I'm out I would think bell check might be intrigued with Dallas. It might be. That would be la. He literally go have a kitchen. That's where you'd I'd say I'm seventy seven and I got a chance to get the greatest coach ever so everybody says let's do it and you already. You're on the record that would mean super bowl year. Oh turn over the next five out of what could happen. Eric where thanks for listening to the undisputed podcast. I'm Johnny Taft join us again at nine thirty. Am Eastern on Monday for another week of undisputed. We'll see that why.

Brady Tom Brady Lebron James Dallas MVP Jerry Jerry Jones NFL Bill Belichick Shannon Sharpe NBA AFC Michael Jordan Meyer Sean Payton JOE FLACCO League Mike Mike Tomlin football Seattle Jason Garrett
Hang Up: What Was The Last Dance?

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1:15:26 hr | 8 months ago

Hang Up: What Was The Last Dance?

"The following podcasts contains explicit language people who are listening for the first time my here bad word to Hi Josh Levin Slates National Editor and the author of the Queen. This is hang up and listen for the week of May Eighteenth. Two Thousand Twenty on this week. We're going to do our last ride with the last dance. Assessing the final two episodes the documentary and the series as a whole. We'll also be joined by broadcaster. I ego we'll speak with us about the challenge of Calling Games remotely. Finally we'll talk about a new. Nfl proposal would give teams better draft picks if they hired minority head coaches and general managers. Hello from Washington C. Home of your Washington Wizards an NBA team that exists just throwing that out there also in DC is friend colleague Documentary Aficionado. Stephan fats US author of the Book Word. Freak and a few seconds of panic. Hello Stephan I hear that Michael Jordan guy played for the Washington Wizards dirty vicious rumor. Also with US Samantha and for winning on the track in the crossfire gem and a little game that we call life slade staff writer. Slow-burn host Joel Anderson schedule. Hey Good morning. I'm not the loser. That Michael Jordan thinks this leave it at that. Think no better way. To and our pre show banter after ten hours an untold number of cigars. Glasses of Scotch and perceived BA last dance at waltzed offspring on Sunday night but Michael Jordan and the Chicago Bulls winning their sixth and final championship. Although there was a notable segment on the murder of Steve Kerr's father in Beirut the last twenty percent of ESPN's documentary series mostly focused on basketball with an emphasis on the Bulls battles with the Indiana Pacers and the Utah Jazz towards the end of the series owner Jerry. Reinsdorf gave his explanation for this series of central mystery. Why break up a team? That had just wanted all for the third straight time. Reinsdorf said that Scottie. Pippin Denis Rodman Ron Harper Steve Kerr were too old and expensive and bringing them all back for a run at eighty seventh title would have been suicidal Jordan. Watching reinsdorf on an IPAD says that this is rubbish that everyone should have had the opportunity to come back and do it all over again and in the documentary we hear this exchange so is it then SAS fine to leave at your pink or is it madden is maddening. Because I felt like we could one seven. I really believe that we may not have but bad just not able to try S S. Something that I just can't except for whatever reason I just can't accept it so this is where we leave Michael Jordan Joel. He's unable and unwilling to accept the storybook ending that he wrote by sticking that jumper over Brian. Russell in Utah He doesn't acknowledge that he did write a new less story. Bookish ending for himself in Washington. Dc But he's also I think justifiably annoyed that the Bulls Dynasty ended the way that it did. Yeah the ending to me. In many ways undermined the premise. That Jerry Krause was villain here in confirmed the Jerry. Reinsdorf held a lot of the cards. Here it is important to acknowledge that though the idea that it would have been suicidal. Bring Back Dennis. Rodman Scottie. Pippen Kerr and Luc. Longley among others seems ridiculous. But it's not necessarily wrong. If you consider the fact that Scotty and Dennis were significantly diminished the next year and the lockout shortened season. Michael Jordan sliced his finger. Walk cutting a cigar that off season and would have missed at least a few months and it wasn't even clear that Scotty and some of those other guys wanted to make the kind of sacrifice that would have been necessary to return for another year. So although Ryan's door is technically right and that the Bulls probably would not have won a championship or they would not have been the same team that they had been the year before he didn't want to pay for it and he allowed Jerry Krause sort of stand in the breach there and take all of this abuse. It seems like he was pulling the strings behind the scenes all the time. Yeah that seems like a good assessment. Joel I mean did REINSDORF Call Phil Jackson and ask him to come back because he had second thoughts and wanted to overrule Jerry Krause. That's what he says did Phil Jackson. I WanNa take a break. It wouldn't be fair to Jerry Krause to overrule him. That seems plausible as well. I mean the part that is most ridiculous here involves Jordan and Jordan's belief that if he and he alone had told Scottie. Pippen Steve Kerr and Dennis Rodman and Ron Harper. That they should come back for one more go round a diminished salaries. They would have been willing to do that. And that's not clear to us because nobody else has asked in the documentary whether they would have been willing to do that maybe they were. This was enough for them. You know they've one three or six or some number in between and they were ready to go play somewhere else and not get yelled at all the time as a tourist grant or Luc Longley or somebody else said in a previous episode. Well Scotty is the interesting question. There I think Jordan we do hear from Jordan that everybody except Scotty definitely would have agreed to do it which I think is probably true and then he sort of kind of waves away the Scotty question. It's like yeah that would have been an issue but if everybody was coming back then Scotty wouldn't have missed out on that. We don't hear what Scottie Pippen's answer to that as we don't know if he was asked and didn't answer we don't know if he was asked and answered and they didn't put it in the documentary. Which would have been aware choice? Or we don't know if he wasn't asked but that was a huge missing piece that we didn't hear from Scotty Pippin on that question and you know we've lingered a lot on the stuff that we don't hear and that we don't see in this documentary the fact that Jordan's tenure with the wizards wasn't even mentioned in the onscreen text crawl at the end was weird but the biggest mission to me. You know if we're going to just say all right. We'll take documentary on. Its own terms. These last two were on about basketball. Mostly you know. Seemed like they were edited. More quickly Because they they didn't have much time to finish these these last two. But you know the person we didn't hear from such an interesting character. Here is Brian Russell. Who Jordan says in his hall of fame speech you know. He tells the story that he tells here about how Brian Russell like talk shit to him during the baseball year. During a pickup game. And saying you know you quit because you know I could lock you down on defense and this was another of the slights that drove Jordan. I put him on my list. Good but Brian. Russell is a guy who had to work really hard to get into the NBA. He was a guy who had his moments in those NBA finals series. But he was also somebody that he was. The Guy who you know doubled off of Jordan till like double team Scottie. Pippen post to allow Jordan to make like a game. Winning three one of his final series Jordan made two game winning shots over him. And we don't hear from him and he's a you know his perspective on this in his journey here. I think are extremely interesting and probably would be more revelatory than anything we hear from Jordan. What's what's interesting to think about here. And of course. It doesn't come up in this documentary. Is that Baron? Russell played with Michael Jordan in his last year. With the wizards and so. I don't know that has anything to do with why we didn't hear him here if they did not interview him at all but it is worth noting that he had a relationship with Michael Jordan. That went past that. You know that time with the Bulls. He got the experience Michael Jordan in the locker room in see the kind of do that. He was dealt with a day to day basis and all of a sudden we. We don't hear from him even though he plays this pivotal role in making machine of Michael Jordan. So I can think of a lot of reasons why you can hear him. I'm sure they wanted to talk to him and he just didn't WanNa talk. I mean that seems like like explanation but it's it would have been nice to hear from him Absolutely should we talk about the pizza? Yeah let's talk about the well. This is all going back to the myth making machine around the Jordan brand right like first of all. Why would you ever eat anything? Brought to your house by five people at once. Like it's not clear WHO's deliver? Who like why were there? Five people necessary to bring a pizza to your room Joe. I think we need to set the context here for a no we do. We do we right. So this is the hundred ninety. Seven finals against Utah. The Bulls are in Utah and before game. Five Jordan is hungry late at night. He's with his guys in his room and they have apparently Decem and not had dinner with him for some reason and Jordan says I'm hungry and so his people order him a pizza. That's the setup. That's the setup. Well I mean it sounds like you're the one buying into the myth making here like the documentary wants you to believe that somehow sketchy that five people are delivering the pizza to him But the director in an interview after this episode aired was like. I don't believe that Michael Jordan was poisoned and then seemed like unable or unwilling to answer the question of like. Why did you put something in the? Why did you insinuate something and the documentary that you don't believe like you're left with your left to believe the Michael Jordan was poised. Yeah RIGHT THE PEOPLE OF UTAH. Yes and that's also that how food poisoning works like you don't like normally takes like twenty four hours before something like that really starts to bubble. I mean maybe Michael Know. Michael Jordan has a body that is unique to Oliver so maybe poisoning metabolize based pizzas and four hours or less right the part of the documentary interview that Jason here did with Jalen rose and Jacoby on ESPN. That was very jordan-esque. Is that in describing the scene? The director says that he told him that the pizza arrives. Jordan doesn't want anyone else to eat any of it so he spits on the pizza to reserve it for himself. This is weird behavior. He treated everybody like Horace Grant. Then you WANNA eat horace grant allow horace. Grant wasn't allowed to eat if I didn't think he should eat and guess. This rule applies to all of his friends friends and quotes by the way. Yeah it's just your Georgia's an exceedingly weird dude and we don't see in this one of the problems with the documentary and I'm GonNa say some nice things about it eventually but we had twenty two years to sort of really investigate. The claim here right that the flu game. This is something that happened and it was the flu in quotes. And we're left with the same mythology the same like you know insinuation. That Michael Jordan overcame an obstacle placed in his way. Not that this is something that he did to himself which you know he was sick because it's something that he may have done to himself for that he just a normal human got sick before a game that no this is yet another brick in the foundation. That Michael Jordan was constantly overcoming things that were placed in his way. And that just said this is the story. This is the story that Michael Jordan has tells himself about the flu game. The flu is to human. The flu is normal. I got sick. I don't know how but I got sick. So he has created a story that is more dramatic. And More self-centered the fans of Utah wanted a poison. Me AND FIVE. Jude's working at a pizza shop. Got An order. Knew it was a delivered to my room knowing that I was the only one that was going to eat it and then I got sick and went out and torched Utah the next night. One of the five delivery people at a poison tipped umbrella suspicious. He was driving batmobile to. Well you guys. You guys said a couple weeks ago and I think I questioned at at the time. But you're right knowledge that this documentary was designed to give Jordan the last word on every topic very true accurate conservation. And that's all the absence of all the wizards stuff is is one part of it. The way that the director acknowledges not believing certain things that are said but not including interviews or material that might undercut it. It's pretty damning right. I mean it's not journalistic. It's not what you would do if the thing that you care about. Most is presenting an accurate and truthful picture of of what happened so You know the other thing. That's like Super Weird and the last episode of the series is that we learned that Michael Jordan has children right. Jeffrey Marcus and Jasmine Jordan. Make on camera appearances where they say nothing interesting. They're just like Oh yeah we didn't like Utah and one is left to conclude since we're just kind of talking about insinuations here that they were added at the end because people noticed that they weren't in the documentary. Like that's the only explanation that makes sense. That Jordan Jordan has a family. Let's let's include that. Yeah I mean there wasn't really a place for them here. I mean I don't. I don't think we needed Jordan's kids to understand that Playing in Salt Lake City was really difficult. You know. I don't know what they had to add there but you know it. Does you know the criticism that there were no family members. There there Michael Jordan was a you know this lone wolf. They had no family. I think misunderstands the criticism in rebutting. Yeah Right Right. I do want to say this because I do think that the final two episodes where real payoff of the documentary and that the behind the scenes footage was supposedly. The you know th the foundation of this. That's what everybody wanted to see. And this is how this whole project happened. Well we finally got to see it right. We finally got to see Dennis. Rodman running away from the media after skipping out for wrestling do in. W. W W wrestling event. We get to see Phil Gathering at the team to tell them. The dentist dishonored them. We get to see my you mind telling Larry Bird. Hey Bitch fuck you you know. We get a lot of that stuff. And that's the stuff that I think that people wanted to see because that was that was what it was building. Oh these behind the scenes footage of Jordan's last year will here. It is and I'm glad we got to see it. I you know so. I was fascinated by the documentary all the way throughout inspite of the criticisms we have but it was this sort of stuff seeing Michael Jordan dancing to Kenny lattimore. Tombs is sort of stuff that you wanted to see. You hope that you would see when we got started on this five weeks ago. Yeah and the footage that I felt encapsulated. The entire documentary was after they win the last game in one thousand nine hundred ninety eight and Jordan walks into the locker room a lot of the players already there because he's been doing interviews or whatever and the greetings he got worse. Oh half hearted that it was really jarring to me and the after party scenes were also really weird. Jordan feels very isolated. It doesn't feel like his teammates. Once they get off. The court are particularly interested in sharing this moment with him or even look terribly excited about what they've just accomplished. Think you might be projecting a little bit there. Players seemed pretty happy to Miami and especially on the court. I don't know man. It was a lot of sort of half ass handslaps walking around the room. I will say this. I've been on a thirty for thirty bins in the last month. Or so. So revisited. The documentaries on Magic Johnson Dennis Rodman and the bad boys among others in what I did notice by comparison that those bulls celebration seemed a lot more subdued in stilted after that initial burst of euphoria. Right like everybody gets excited on the court. There is the burst of euphoria of euphoria. But then you see in these other documentaries Magic Johnson. You know hardly hugging people and porn champagne on each other. And it's like everybody is like very happy there's a lot of warmth in a camaraderie. I didn't see that in any of these bull celebrations not in one thousand nine hundred eighty eight. Yes certainly not in nineteen ninety eight. Maybe that's just the mission of editing or whatever. Maybe that's just an editing choice and we didn't get to see that but I didn't get the same feelings of warmth from those championships. In comparison to the other ones that we saw with other superstars right. What about the warm exchange between Jordan and Leonardo Dicaprio? Leonardo DiCaprio was famous then on second thought the the lack of warmth that I'm talking about was after they beat the Pacers before he tells bird. Fuck you so. I guess it was only the Eastern Conference finals and it was only game. Seven but yeah. They didn't look very excited. Well there was the sense that this was a relief that there's a lot of pressure and it was a huge burden on them the whole season. So that's fair enough. I mean I think the thing that was really revelatory to me and back to what I said. An introduction is that after Jordan goes through his whole spiel on How was unfair and unjust that they weren't given a chance to when seven title Phil Jackson like. Yeah it was time to end. It was a good team. It's time to go. We're we're ready. That have been done Phil Phil. Jackson has his own problems. Certainly not a perfect guy but that does I think in very short form. Encapsulate the difference between those men and also just between Jordan and other people who are more I guess I'm motionlessly available or like not stunted is just the idea that like you should be grateful for the good things that happen to you and your life and hold on to those and he had a really really great. Ron May the one of the best rounds ever But he just really hangs on to everything that was taken from him that he was deprived of that. He was denied that other people tried to stop him. And you know maybe that propels you to greatness. Maybe you think that propels you to greatness but it clearly makes you angry and unhappy and not content with you know accomplishments. That are extraordinary. And that's just a really said disconnect it is and it that ultimately is one of the things that undermines the documentary Gotham Chopra director who Did the the Kobe Bryant documentary stuff? There was A. He's quoted in a piece in the Washington Post Ben Strauss about the vanity project. Nature of the last dance and Chopra says about working with Kobe. It turned into a form of therapy creative ownership over something is also agency over his own story and that makes a big difference whether it's Kobe Jordan or anyone else and while that is absolutely true. What's revealed here is that that is creatively powerful. If the subject is thoughtful and introspective if the subject is willing to sort of reconsider his the kiss career arc. Kobe was willing to do that. And Jordan obviously was not or wasn't able to to build off that point in these last two episodes. We get to see Steve Kerr who is like a real delight You know that I could do without some of the self-deprecation okay. Ucla didn't want you. But you still managed to get into Arizona. You're you're pretty good Steve. But at the end he gives up the game all of this when he says about Michael Jordan. We saw him as a bully right and he had said earlier. In the documentary it was very difficult to reach him emotionally. And so I just got the sense that as we come to the end here that it was really unfulfilling for all of these people. Just don't get the sense then. Being a champion was fulfilling or a pursuit that it's worth pursuing because it alienated Michael Jordan from everybody in his life you know it seems like and I think about even Scottie Pippen Scottie. Pippen sacrifices bodies sacrifice money for the greater glory of the Chicago Bulls and Michael Jordan and Michael Jordan never even fucking said like. I never saw him. Come to the to the Defensive Scottie. Pippen and say hey man that guy laid it all on the line for me after that game six in Utah it was all about. Jordan's heroics not about Scotty fighting through a back injury that would upset most other people down and I just think sort of encapsulates everything that we saw coming with Jordan in this documentary that it's all about him in his greater glory and everybody else was there to serve to help him and if they felt the way they felt that's how they felt. But Michael Jordan care all right last dance. Thank you for all the content. We appreciate it. The Bundesliga returned over the weekend and bt sport in the UK was there to cover every touch and by there. I don't mean in the families stadiums in Dortmund and Berlin but rather in the homes of producers directors and commentators scattered across Britain. That's certainly going to be the setup. When live sports return to America play by play and color brought to you not from Wrigley Field or the staple center but from ESPN and NBC studio booths in Connecticut or from their home offices or home offices of their wives? Which is from where our next guest joins us. He is Eagle who calls the NFL for CBS the NBA for TNT and much much more. Welcome back to the show I am great to be with. You guys This is not necessarily the way that I would like to fill airtime with you. But it's still something at least connected to normalcy in some way we can talk about sports as I'm sure you know the very first live sports on the radio on K. D. K. And Pittsburgh in one thousand nine hundred ninety. One was based off of reports. Telephoned into announcers Ronald Reagan. And even more famous play by play guys did it. Converting phone calls and teletype messages into gripping game narratives. I'm guessing you're not quite old enough to have called the game off them but remote broadcasts have been pretty normal before Kovin even for big events like the Olympics World Cops College Football. Give us a little context on how often you've called the game this way. And under what circumstances yeah so for me. Obviously I've been more of the traditional broadcaster from the start of my career but I have received some assignments that were a bit unconventional and was asked ahead of time. Are you comfortable this? Nba Games? Sometimes you're not going to be in the same exact venue as the actual event. I got hired by the NBA to call the NBA finals. The Miami Heat in the San Antonio Spurs two thousand thirteen and I did it from a studio in Beautiful Secaucus New Jersey and did every moment of every game of that series off of the large screen my broadcast was Jim Monarchic. We had a little production meeting before we went ahead and did our games and tried to treat it as normal as usual but not being at the game means that you're doing a more general call a you're not picking up the nuances. You're not feeling the energy from the crowd and often you had to supply your own energy now. The difference there you were getting ambient noise back into your headset. So there was a little bit of the Crescendo. That would build from an audience but your own personal energy you had to generate yourself and the whole goal for an announcer is to convey the emotion and drama of an event. And you can still do that through your voice. But there's no doubt there will be an adjustment period if there are no fans in the stands and then decisions will have to be made in regards to the noise that is going to accompany the event itself. Will they pump in crowd noise? A will they see that as almost like a laugh? Track like you would get on a Sitcom and it's an interesting analogy because seinfeld which was one of the great sitcoms wall time laugh track. It worked it played curb your enthusiasm which I enjoyed equally. If not more at times and Seinfeld no laugh track and it played it worked but a completely different viewing experience. I just real quick for a second. You called the Ray Allen three from a remote studio correct. Oh my gosh what. How did that I mean like you said I mean that must have felt weird? Did you feel the emotion of that moment from a remote studio? I did because everything had been building in that game and given that was not game one. That was game six so I had some experience in how to handle the ups and downs of broadcasting from a remote location. It wasn't the first time that I had done it. In fact I did the world basketball CHAMPIONSHIPS WITH BILL. Raftery in a studio in secaucus. Although the Games were being played in Barcelona I was getting attacked the entire first game throughout your in Barcelona. Now I'm in Secaucus that's when people texted you. They wouldn't say birth alone. They would say to people in particular foot t h in there during Barcelona. Yeah it was a little odd because people just assume you're there I never once said or try to convey the idea that I was at the event but I think there's just a general connection that people make if your covering the event the assumption is. Oh he must be there well. Let's listen to a clip of you calling that rail and Buzzer beater and the two thousand thirteen finals. Rebound Bosh got it clears Alan fire drills ninety seconds to go so it's a great call in the question that I had for you. I N as one the you kind of got to in your first answer. Which is how much of this is real. And how much of it as performance you know we know you know you're dripping with sincerity and everything that you do but how much of that irregular game and in a remote game are you kind of acting. Are you trying to convey emotion? And just that. Maybe isn't isn't there but you want the viewer at home said feel excited. It's a fantastic question and probably does not get talked about nearly enough when we discuss sports casting. In general I think as you evolve in your career you begin to figure out what energy level is required for the event that you're calling and to say that I'm exactly the same for every event that I do. There's a consistency in my approach. There certainly a consistency in my preparation but the job requires the marriage preparation and performance so my preparation which I take a lot of pride in in getting ready for any event. Sometimes I'm calling five to six games in a week and it varies from a television football game to a football game on the radio to NBA Games local to NBA Games. National to a college basketball. It could be in one week so to say that I'm going to be exactly the same for every. Single event is not a fair statement of course There's going to be a variance and in how I approach it. How I cover it and how I use my voice if you're doing a game where the home team is on a flurry. Football basketball doesn't matter. The crowd is going to play a much larger role. And you're going to have to push your voice in order to break through with the crowd and create this blend where your voice is connecting with the crowd if the same exact thing is happening with the visiting team and the crowd is playing no role. And you're now going at a nine or a ten with your vocals. It's not gonNA come across the same way because you don't have the backup there so there is performance involved in this job and of course when you've got a great highlight in the NBA. When Moore of Albert said Hey spectacular move by Michael Jordan? Of course? He happened to pick the right word in the right moment and he punched it in the exact perfect way and he also recognized that in that moment it was probably GonNa live on for a long time. If you have the right call and the right words in the right moment it can elevate that moment the issue here with remote games there. There are multiple ones. I mean one is something you mentioned a few seconds ago which preparation you're not in the arena. You know you might not be doing the same kinds of interviews before a game with athletes with with coaches your NFL game where you get to sit down with a members of the staff and talk to players the days before. So you're you might be losing something of the human connection in terms of what you're able to relate and that's just one thing right oh no doubt about it now. A whiz Zun becoming such a big part of our lives. I could easily see that transitioning to our new normal in covering sports where you will get the players that you asked for on an NFL Sunday but the interview will now take place via laptops and your hope is. You can still cultivate some information that can be used over the course of your broadcast but the human connection certainly is going to be affected. There's going to be an adjustment period. Here there's no doubt about it. The next part of the equation will be the sterile nature in the conditions. That you're working whether you are on site let's say the NFL makes the decision. They deem the announcers essential but no fans in the stands. You're in your broadcast booth. You're in your typical setup yet. The game does not have the feel that had during normal conditions. And now it's up to you to generate the energy or to gauge. What's required you? The one thing that I would say in regards to the performance aspect that we were discussing it still has to be authentic. If it's not coming from a real place listeners viewers. They sniff it up. They know something doesn't fit which doesn't belong in. Why that highlight didn't deserve that. Bega call or that highlight was actually better than the call that you provided that in the moment split-second when you have to make those decisions as a broadcaster you've got to determine whether or not your voice is matching the action or are you underplaying overselling. All of those things are done in a millisecond. And now when you don't have a crowd to help you figure all of that out That that's going to be based more on your Gut Instincts Bryan Curtis story for the Ringer about. This was great and he did a really good job of kind of demystifying. How guys like you call games in an arena stadium versus at home and I was wondering if you could walk us through that like an NFL game. You might actually be watching a lot of the game on the Monitor from You know the six level or whatever. So can you just kind of walk through football and basketball and What some of the kind of advantages and disadvantages are calling it and the stadium versus remote away. My play by play career started. I began in radio so when I started with the nets. Nineteen Ninety four ninety five. That was all. I knew I had no television experience whatsoever at a blank canvas and I was told by anyone that was an expert in the field. You are the conductor. You're in charge. What you see is now the picture that you're going to paint for the listener. That's driving in their car. That's doing some gardening in the backyard. That string of beer on the deck. Whatever it might be so when it's put in those terms it's fairly easy to understand. Okay I'm going to paint the picture. I transitioned to television the very next year and it was a whole new world it was more of an analyst medium so that was the first thing that struck me. I was working with Bill. Raftery who is a brilliant guy and what you see is what you get and a lot of times. I was getting out of his way but I also realized that the producer the director. They were steering the ship more than I was as the play by play announcer football. I got the jets. Radio job in nineteen ninety-seven same situation as three years earlier. Paint the picture. The next year I get the CBS job covering the NFL. And I'm doing TV now with some experience behind me at the local level so the transition wasn't as big elite and to be honest with you. The transition wasn't that big league for me from ninety four to ninety five because I hadn't really developed any habits. It was still very new so in a way it probably benefited me. That I hadn't done radio for fifteen years in a sudden now. I had to change what I was looking for. And where my focus was concentrated on basically when I got to the television side of things. I realized that I needed to talk to pictures. This is the essence of what we're doing if fans can't see what. I'm talking about Ben. There's a disconnect and you have to get on the same page as you're producer and director and you have to use that talk back button that goes directly into the truck if you see something. They're not seeing alert them so they can find it and now you're in concert with one another and you're working together as opposed to me doing a separate broadcast from the truck so for NBA game for an NFL game. There is such a collaborative process in covering the event and that hard is going to be a little different. I can no longer be the eyes and ears if I'm seems develop because I'm just getting what they're getting. I'm getting one screen. Maybe there could be some advanced setups where we have multiple looks where you can see. Eyeso- monitors which we might have on a normal television broadcast. The analyst is peaking at a different monitor. That's not on television. Not Our program on her but an eyesore monitor and noticed something and tells the producer director. Hey get a shot this for keep an eye on that for this play because they see it developed we might be a bit more limited because we just don't have the same kinds of options that we would normally have under our usual show the reason that there's been more remote coverage as that covering live sports on location is really expensive. And there's a shit ton of live sports available to be broadcast and you practically networks and other producers can't send crews to cover every game. The goal of the announcer of course is to make us not realize that we're missing anything and my question. Is I guess the two questions here one is. Are we missing something by not having your is your physical is in your physical emotion in the stadium or arena or on the field? And do you worry where we are now that this will be a convenient way for networks and other sports producers to say? Hey we can really cut costs by remote broadcasting more than we have in the past. Yeah I four yes You are missing something. If the announcers and the producers and director are not onsite. You're missing part of the feel that comes with covering an event and not just doing the nuts and bolts. And telling you exactly what you're seeing. There is still something to being there in person and experiencing it and being able to convey it with the last dance up. Costas stepped in for that final run for Michael Jordan as the play by play announcer and really did an excellent job is a tremendous journalist and understands the medium but the interesting part for me is looking back on that final edition. He was there and had the right words and the right tone and it lives all these years later. He chose the exact narratives that we needed. That helped tell that story. There will be a disconnect. If you're not there you're not going to have the same vibe. There's just no way. There's no way to recreate that. There is no way to simulate that. Will it be passable? Yes it will be passable and for most people right now given the circumstances they would take it in a heartbeat and I get it a hundred percent get it. We just want something right now but big picture. Long-term no the product would suffer and look some companies have already done it. They've done it without telling anyone that they have a remote production. They may have the announcers on site but the producer and director are back in a studio somewhere. They're not on site. And there are some cases. Where the announcers are not on site and they don't necessarily tell you that when the broadcast starts soccer as we know very common a that's probably to me the most common sport of all of them that there are matches happening all over the world and there are two guys in Studio in Fort Lauderdale Florida calling them lots of them but I think people will accept what the new normal is shorter long term. I think there would be an issue if we don't get back to the standard in which we've grown accustomed to. I think I've got one question for you. Since you brought it up about the last dance. I know that you did a show with Phil Jackson and Radio. Weekly radio show with Phil Jackson. So can you just real briefly? Tell us about I. Were you in the same room with Phil Jackson when you were doing these enter. How appropriate is this question at this moment? No I was not really. I was with him. One time when the Lakers came into play the knicks that was the only time he was available to come into the studios at serious and that was the only time we did the show looking at one another and every other show that we did for that season he was somewhere else. Sometimes in a hotel room sometimes at the practice facility Sometimes in a remote location that he did not devote yes Phil Jackson. I did a show for an entire NBA season and we were together once. Why did you feel like you've ever gotten to a rapport with Phil? Then on not the way that I normally would like to to think of chemistry no I I would look back on that and say there was definitely a disconnect because he was doing the show during a very brief time that he had actual time to commit to it in between other things so it was never a focus for him. Phil was very easy to deal with. He could not have been more of a gentlemen's very interesting guy. His view of what the show should be compared to what my you was and management were two very different a he at one point on a show wall. There were definitely some things happening with the Lakers. You wanted to do twenty minutes on canned goods one. That's real and I I remember after the show meeting would somebody from serious and and he asked me how. How did you get on that time? I think that was filling as I tempted to. Get off that topic. He went back to that topic. So yeah it. It's something that I always looked at as as a real strength of mine connecting with my partners finding that that dynamic that works that was digestible for the audience. I would say that was one of the few instances where I just couldn't quite get over the Hump on that particular setup Stephan. We should wrap this up. I think before we got. We should all just grade how he did not in the same location. I can give us a solid C. Four but we faked it. Well Yeah that's a Great Eagle calls the NFL the NBA. Pretty much. Everything else. Thanks so much for coming on the show. Angry to see you guys all right. We'll let you know that in this week's bonus segment for slate plus members. We'll be talking to our slave colleague. Heather sh widow not a sports fan about her interpretations of the last dance. What was it like for a sports? Newbie please stick around for that and join slate. Plus SLATE DOT com slash hangup plus the. Nfl came up with the Rooney rule in two thousand three under threat of litigation from a pair of civil rights attorneys one of them. Johnny Cochran the rule which requires teams to interview minority candidates for head. Coaching and front office positions was meant to boost minority hiring. It hasn't really worked today. Seventeen years later the. Nfl has three black head coaches the same number. As when the Rooney rule was adopted. The League gets seems wants that to change the. Nfl will reportedly consider a pair of resolutions during the owners. Virtual meeting on Tuesday the I would do away with the rule that permits teams to block assistant coaches from interviewing for coordinator positions with other teams. This second would reward teams with improved drafts. Lots if they hire minority head coaches a football executives. So Josh you think. Nfl teams are now going to fall over themselves to hire Marvin Lewis any probably not poor. poor Marvan but Anthony Lynn. One of the three black head coaches I think had it exactly right when he said in an interview. I think sometimes you can do the wrong thing while trying to do the right thing. I don't think that it's a bad idea for the NFL. To look at the Rooney rule and say how can we improve this? How can we get more opportunities for minority coaches and executives? That's a good impulse the way that they're going about it here or that they're proposing to go about it. Here seems wrong in that people that support minority hiring and people who oppose it are going to be united and thinking that this is a bad idea if you are upset or outraged bird or think that there should be more opportunities here. You'RE GONNA look at this and be like all right. You're saying that you're now qualifying like a minority head. Coach is worth six spots in the third round. I mean we can go through the specifics of the proposal. But it's basically like putting a value on a coach that's associated with like moving up a couple of spots and the draft and it just feels wrong and it also sends the message. That teams won't do this unless they're giving a cookie for you know. Oh well you don't want black coach there. We'll give you a third round pick. I'm like Oh okay now I really do want black. I mean it just sends the wrong message and on the other side. You're GONNA have the usual suspects people being like. This is unfair. It's discrimination it's the same conversations that you hear about affirmative action and that's going to be unfair to the coaches that do get these opportunities. They're going to be seen as Being less deserving Because these inducements are now attached to it. So you know Steph and it just seems like good idea in theory and just really really bad in practice. Let's start with the NFL's history. It's not just. How many black coaches there are. It's their overall hiring policies. And they've been uniformly terrible over the years the institute for Diversity and Ethics in sport that group that's run by Richard Lap Chick most recently gave the NFL a d. plus in hiring for coaches and an F. for hiring diversity for general managers this all reflects the horrific insularity of NFL ownership. I mean you said. Give them a cookie. I mean it's exactly like that the NFL has the treat. It's owners like toddlers. These are the same people who think Colin Kaepernick is a social menace. It's astounding how little what little awareness the thirty two owners in the NFL. Have of what constitutes collective fairness what constitutes equity what constitutes progress and they demonstrate their failings over and over and over. It really shows to me how insulated NFL ownership is from the reality on their own workplaces ingestion. You mentioned something about how you know. Those coaches that might get hired under. These circumstances might be seen as less deserving which that's true but I have and I think that if you got hired under those circumstances you might might not have as much of a problem as you think because that's never stop the NFL. Coaching carousel from hiring people. That are seen as less deserving all the time I mean nobody look at Mike Shula. Brian Schottenheimer Wade Phillips. Jim Moore Junior call. Shanahan Jay Gruden the Ryan brothers. Mike Nolan Lane Kiffin. You know even Tom Dmitrov. All these guys are nepotism. Hires in nobody ever says. Hey those guys unless deserving. It's just assumed that when you get in there you get in there and you have to do your job and so I think even if you got hired under these circumstances you gotta take it and do the job that you can with it because those opportunities just come around and it's never stopped. Anybody knows middling son from accepting a job but more broadly like you said. I don't think this is going to change anything. I don't think teams care that much about a third round pick rhino or positioning in a third round. Pick to do something like this. I mean it just doesn't it doesn't seem like enough of an inducement to do the right thing. Should there being inducement? Joel I mean. Is there a better approach here? I mean look as Bomani. Jones wrote on twitter having to bribe ownership to seriously consider hiring minority coaches as a staggering indictment of the. Nfl is what Bomani wrote. Should you have to do this or is this a is there a way to improve minority hiring in a league like the NFL? I don't know because I mean it's so dependent as you mentioned on these owners and these people that really don't necessarily believe in diversity or fairness and hiring as a concept in the first place right like I mean there are people that skirt these sort of rules. All the times and other industry is so. I don't know that there's anything that could necessarily be done. But they should do something right but I always think about it. This way that the problem with the pipeline is not it head. Coaching in the head coaching. Position or general managers you've got to build a pipeline way before you ever get to that point A lot of coaches get stuck and positions that you know position coaching roles that never get that sort of responsibility in it is not really an advancement and I'll use this example so I played at. Tcu Nine thousand nine hundred ninety eight and ninety six we had three black assistant coaches at TCU. This is nineteen ninety-six. All three of them today. A running backs coaches still you know and and only one of them has had an opportunity to be coordinator at some point net careers and it wasn't like one of those coordinator positions where you call plays. It was being a coordinator in name only. So you think about it. So like that guy's never even gonNA get a chance to be to get the sort of advancement that somebody else gets a coordinator position when the thirty one years old guy like Lincoln Riley or whoever else so yeah I just I get what they're trying to do but the problem is pipeline and I don't know how you deal with that so a couple of things The thing that the real indictment of the NFL as compared to other industries and of in leadership positions and journalism. In which. We're familiar with and and you know many other industries that were less personally familiar with as a scandal in itself but the NFL the vast majority of players are black and so when the coaches and know ownership and management arm black than that is an indictment of the whole industry. I mean it's an obvious point where it's saying like they're obviously people that can do these jobs and should be given an opportunity to do these jobs. So that's point number one The second point is I think this is a really really important lesson in the difference between You know how things are in Noun on paper and then how. Things are executed in practice. The Rooney rule is progressive and the NFL was progressive. Instituting and in two thousand and three and the numbers that you mentioned Jal It's certainly true. That the number of coaches the same now. Seventeen years ago but that does It's a little bit more of a topsy turvy story than that. It did. Initially I think work and there were more coaches and then just like And again this happens across other industries. These coaches get an opportunity and then maybe they don't you know some of them succeed in down and then like Marvin Lewis. They don't ever get an opportunity again so it's like okay. We hired by coach. That didn't work. We're not going to do that again. And so I think the NFL is right and saying we need to do something different. We need to change something here. But I thought Mike Florio profootballtalk had a really good point. The problem here is moving from the Paradigm of Punishments to the Paradigm of reward. There's only been one fine. Ever issued for Rooney rule violation to Matt Mellon when he was with the Lions. Congratulations mad melon. And being the only person to ever get fined for this the NFL has been unwilling to punish teams for making a sham of the Rooney rule process for going through with interviews with coaches. They don't intend to hire with not taking it seriously. That is where the NFL should put. Its Energy and attention is making sure that these interviews are real. That more coaches are getting the opportunity to interview the part about In the first part you mentioned y'all of getting more minorities opportunities to be coordinators. That is the part here that will get the least attention but as the most important and just bringing the whole concept of reward and giving team something for you know a practice that they should be doing anyway. It sends the wrong message. Punish punish right. The word and I'm glad you mentioned the bit about allowing assistant coaches to be interviewed for coordinator positions because that is far more important. There are a lot of African American and other minority coaches in the NFL. Position Coach's position assistance. Who Don't get to move up and running coaches flat running back. Coach is a lot of defensive coaches who who don't get to move up particularly because they don't get the opportunity to run the offense which is the most likely path to becoming a head coach so allowing coaches assistant coach to be interviewed for these jobs and getting rid of some of these bogus deadlines and sort of periods when they're not allowed to talk to other teams is a real step forward. The insane part about this is that the NFL also is having to write into this rule that every team will have to notify the league. About what an assistant coaches responsibility actually is to prevent teams from giving them titles that would prohibit them from being interviewed for these positions so the League is going to have to build in rules to keep teams from changing the titles of assistant coaches to prevent them from qualifying to be interviewed for coordinator jobs. That is just another tremendous indictment about what this league has to do to prevent owners from doing the wrong thing in a question. I have is who wanted this. Who proposed this and who wanted this does the NFL. Actually this is some sort of you know potential lawsuit in the works that we don't know about have they been contacted by somebody that makes them want to address this now because I guess I'm just curious about what what's pushing this like? This past off season Joe. Judge gets the giants head coaching job and he was a special teams coach. Rate and the guy that got hired in Cleveland Kevin's defence key. These are guys that don't have as much experience and as many accolades as Eric. Bana made a no black offensive coordinator for the chief so the NFL is responding to events. That happened in twenty twenty. And I bet they thought that they were GonNa get praised for it right bright. Well also look this public relations a does affect the NFL. They are not immune to bad. Pr Jim Trotter. Who's African American who covers the NFL for the NFL? Network said the end of last year. That Clemson offensive coordinator named Tony Elliott rejected being interviewed by the panthers. Thought it was going to be a bogus interview. And then a a week or so later. He quoted an unnamed black. Nfl assistant coach. Nfl is finally shown. It's not the place for black men to advance. It's ridiculous it's disgusting. We can sell tickets and make plays but we can't lead. Maybe there was pressure and is pressure and there should be pressure is coming from the. Nfl PA is coming from an outsider. Like Cyrus Mary or lawyers. That are once again going to have to threaten the NFL or have we don't know right now but that wouldn't be out of the question is not for me to tell. Tony Elliott whether or not to take interviews that he knows maybe a sham or not because at least for the panthers the it had been telegraph. That Matt Rule. The head coach. Baylor was always going to be the guy in that role right but I do think it's important to take those interviews because you just never know by getting in the room and that's why like the idea that people might be diminished by getting installed. You know through these means might make them seem less deserving kind of falls apart because the thing is that often guys just need to get in the room. And that's the biggest problem in a lot of in these instances just not even getting the opportunity to make your case to the decision makers and like. That's the piece that needs to be solved here and yes. This proposal does kind of get at that but I just I guess I'm just really cynical about the idea that the NFL and the people that are in charge of these franchises are really going to do anything unless you punish them but even then you're punishing them not for not hiring but for not taking the the rule seriously because that's another step right taking the rule seriously and then going through it making a higher and I just you know we've been talking about this. Entire life is a football fan and there hasn't been much movement on it and you know I I doubt they will see much movement on it. The rest of my life well. I think you're right that if these rules went into place and it's unclear it seems extremely unlikely to me that this will be approved given of the criticism that received instantly in a world in which this did happened. I thank you know coaches who got these opportunities. Shouldn't turn them down. At the point I was trying to make is just that you know you would be associated with a team jumping six spots from where it is slotted to pick in the third round like that that's a part of a transaction on the wire you know ex coach hired Ex team moves up six slots in the third round. And if you look at like I mean it's a long list of bullet points if a minority assistant left to become a coordinator elsewhere. His former club would receive a fifth round compensatory pack and it kind of goes on and on and the thing that made me think of was Tampa Bay sending two first round picks and two second round. Picks to the raiders for Jon Gruden. I think that they weren't disappointed with that. Trade because they they want a super bowl but like that's the that's the value that's connected to Jon Gruden right and then you know minority coach. Td is worth six slots in the third round. It's just makes it. It makes the whole thing look Chintzy and ridiculous and unfair from whatever perspective. You want to look at it. It's just the whole thing. Looks look like the result of a round of negotiations where someone in the NFL headquarters said well. Maybe it's worth the first round pick and someone else said no way. What are you kidding me? A black coach that's sixth round. Pick and then. They settled on six slots in the third round. It looks cheap. I think we can put a pin there. Clearly we'll be hearing more about this the NFL owners will meet on this on Tuesday. Which will be the day. Some of you all listen to this podcast so Maybe we'll circle back on this now. It's time for after balls and there's a really sad part of Brian Russell's wikipedia page. I just wanted to let you guys. Now it's not enough. I wanted to prepare you because this has added as it reads as follows in two thousand nine Jordan mentioned Russell and his hall of fame induction speech who calling an interaction they had during Jordan's first retirement in eighteen ninety four lobby blabbity Blah Russell says why did you quit? I could guard you. Jordan says from this day forward favor see Russell and shorts. I'm coming at him in response. Russell challenged Jordan to a game of one on one for charity. Such a matchup has not yet taken place though the Utah Flash of the N. Bdo did stage a halftime game between Russell and a Jordan look alike. Oh God. That's like racing a horse for Brian. Russell Utah Flash of the D. League the G. League. I guess it is now staged this. I guess congratulations to them. Coming up the that promotion Stephan. What is your Utah Flash? Well this past week Major League baseball prepared sixty seven pages of medical and safety protocols. Should the sport return for a partial season on proposals? Include social distancing during the national anthem and when men are on base no managerial lineup card. Swapping no throwing the ball around Macquarie. No high fiving no fist bumping no spitting tobacco chewing or sunflower seed expect rating the most spitting edict is getting a lot of attention because no spitting baseball next crotch-grabbing. They're killing baseball. Anyway you'll recall a few weeks ago. I reported that the last huge US pandemic in one thousand nine hundred eighteen and nineteen was not responsible for outlying the spitball. I also didn't turn up any evidence that the pandemic hastened the demise of plain old spitting in baseball players began spitting during baseball's earliest years. In the mid nineteenth century when chewing tobacco was very popular tobacco produced saliva which was good for lubricating the mouth on dry dusty ballfields and also for lubricating newfangled leather gloves. I couldn't find any stories about the contemporaneous spitting habits of the nineteenth century baseball players. But I did stumble across an interesting item in the February one. 1896 edition of the Pittsburgh press quote Van Hall trend will be asked to sign an agreement curtailing his tobacco. Smoking during the playing season Van. Halton was George van Halter and he played seventeen seasons mostly for the New York. Giants still tons of bases batted over three hundred a dozen times and he also had an awesome handlebar moustache a few days after the Pittsburgh report story only Buffalo Morning News reported that the giants club people had sent word to Van Hall trend in San Francisco. That unless he quit smoking or at least limit himself he could not play on the New York team next year giants owner Andrew Freedman. The paper said is convinced vans excessive. Smoking interfered with his good work last year and insists on limiting the abuse. It's interesting that people in eighteen ninety six thought that smoking might be bad for athletes. Two thousand nine slate explainer about baseball chewing tobacco by Brian Palmer noted that the sudden decline of former batting champion King Kelly 1892 was attributed to his longtime habit of smoking while patrolling the outfield but Van. Halter was no Kelly. He didn't do good work in eighteen. Ninety six he did great work. He hit three forty stole thirty. Two bags drove in one hundred three runs and had a career. I P of nine eleven. Not that he would have known that because Oprah's didn't exist in eighteen ninety six. So why would the giants leaker story about Van Hall and Smoking Problem? Probably because Friedman the owner was a notorious asshole whom bill. Jane's called George Steinbrenner on Quail Woods with a touch of Al Capone. Friedman was a real estate millionaire. Tammany Hall insider who routinely alienated his players and managers star Pitcher Amos. Roussy would sit out that eighteen ninety six season because of disputes with the owner the smoking threat against Van Hall trend was probably a contractual ploy by Friedman against a star player according to an incredible sabre bio written by Bill Lamb. Friedman fought with fellow national league owners and literally fought with reporters covering the giants to punish the League for not taking his side. After a player used an anti Semitic slur against him on the field. He tanked the giants saying I would not give five cents for the best baseball player in the world to strengthen it that nearly crippled the league because other teams relied on big gates from giants Games. His fellow owners wound up caving. Friedman finagled his way back into power until he left the sport to run the construction. Of New York's first subway line the Iot from which he got even richer and for which he was widely praised Friedman later was a director of the company the back the Wright brothers he had a nervous breakdown and died in one thousand nine fifteen at age fifty five as for Van Hall. Trinh baseball associates defended him against smoking. Charge Connie Mack said that I am confident. He never carried it to that extreme where his health was injured. The big outfielder was always very careful of his health. The trainer for the Pittsburgh Pirates van halting play before joining the giants said the smoking report was absurd and the van. Hulten was a crank on his health when he was in Pittsburgh. He backed up that claim with details than hall. Trend was usually the first man in the room after the game and was the last one out he would not go out in the air sweat. He was careful about eating and finally we and obviously most important to maintaining one's health after taking his bath and being rubbed down he would always stand around fanning himself with a towel for five minutes before dressing. I couldn't determine whether van Halter and smoke less or more during the eighteen ninety six season but he had a career best three fifty one average with thirty nine steals and a league. Twenty one triples. Nice Josh what's your Utah Flash before I get to my actual Utah Flash. I have to say that I have an update on the Michael Jordan. Brian Ross all look alike one game from two thousand nine. Is the price of looking up after Bonham too quickly so it turns out that the owner of the Utah Team Brandt Anderson tried to convince people that are actually a real game and sent the look alike all over town to try to drum up interest in this and ended up having that offer refunds to seventy five hundred people that buy tickets to this game to thinking. They're going to see a Brian Russell Michael Jordan one on one game. Oh man offered one hundred thousand dollars to the charity of the Winter Choice Jordan somehow declined shockingly to play Brian Russell at a D. League game in two thousand nine so just a little bit more information now onto my actual Utah Flash. A couple of weeks ago. My friend ten mcclelland asked an important question on twitter. Is the last dance going to ask Michael Jordan why he wouldn't license his image to NBA Jam? The answer tad is now. The last dance did not address that like it didn't address so many other things so I will address it now. Jordan was not in the arcade and home console smash hit. Nba Am because he opted out of regular NBA licensing and made his own arrangements presuming correctly that he could cut better deals for himself than the League could make on his behalf but by opting out of NBA Jam. He missed out on the Europe label. Opportunity to be part of the amusement and music operators associations most played video game for nineteen ninety-three. Actually it's not true. I mean the part about it being most played games trail. But because Michael Jordan is Michael Jordan did get his boom shock cake and eat it to an oral history published in sports illustrated video game developer mark. Turmoil says the following. And I quote Gary. Payton got a hold of me and wanted to be in the game. I told him what we would need. Not Thinking anything would come of it. I should say that Gary Payton is not in the game and that if you plan a jam it's Shawn Kemp and been wait. Benjamin Gary Payton feeling well but left out so he calls. The developer of the game. the developer says. I told him what we would need. Not Thinking anything would come of it. A lot of effort like nine images for the head then. I received photographs in the mail. Payton standing in front of a wall and all these angles then he said Oh. I'M BUDDIES WITH KEN. Griffey junior and he wants to be in the game and Michael Jordan wants to be on the game. I did a special version of the game with three of them in it. I sent that to Peyton. I was happy to do. It was pretty early in his career. It wasn't even clear it was the right move. Okay Gary Payton Gone Michael Jordan. Nba Jam and Michael Jordan was still an asshole to him and last answer. Shake him my damn head This MJ version of NBA. Jam has never been released. Gary Payden apparently has it in his garage. If you want to play this just ask Gary Payden. It's not it's not on me according to the NBA Jammed Super Nintendo Faq on the website game tax published on April seven. Thousand nine hundred four any codes that you might receive to quote unlocked Jordan and the Console version of the game are quote bogus and are merely an attempt by one person to make themselves look cool. Don't fall for it. Game fact says in Nature Ninety four DAFFYD Q. Continues other rumored secret characters that can be confirmed as false are as follows? I'm not making this up. These are all all false false rumored secret characters the list as Barney the dinosaur beavis and butthead Charles Manson Jeffrey Dahmer Randall. Cunningham Jim Harbaugh Magic Johnson Larry Bird it. Dr J. The Red Ninja Donahue. That is rush. Limbaugh Darth Vader Superman Al Pacino. Santa Claus the state marshmallow cool spot. Sinbad Humpty Hump Oprah Alien Predator dray Snoop and Michael Jackson. No mention of Big Into Pack Humpty Humpty Hump of digital underground yes so if you wanted to play Humpty Hump in a video game you might be out of luck. Unless they're games out there that I don't know about but there have been various Jordan titles released over the years one of them Michael Jordan Chaos. In the windy city is a side scrolling platformer released in one thousand nine hundred four in which Jordan throws basketball's to incapacitate has enemies. You can watch a play through of the entire game on Youtube because of course you can but everything you need to know really is in the like cut scenes in the beginning that explain the premise of the game. So I'm just GonNa read that part and then we'll be done. It begins with the following tidal. It's a windy day in Chicago. I practice for an all star Charity Game. So you know this is funny. Michael Jordan would never play a charity. Michael shows up and finds his team has disappeared. Their stuff is here. But they're not he says this is weird suddenly through a skylight crash a ball with a note scrawled on it. Note Mr Jordan if you want to save your pals come to the Egyptian Room in the field museum at midnight come alone signed. Dr Max cranium. Michael says man. This is serious. I'd better check out the panel. Then reads that night a guard. Lets Michael into the closed museum in the Egyptian Room Michael? Well I'm here now. What hey a door in the wall? He enters warily. Michael What the the panel finding himself at the entrance to an underground prison Michael sets out to find his friends and then we again not anywhere in space jam. I guess sounds better the spice town. Although you know just the notion that Michael has friends that if the friends appeared that you would want to find them. That seems a little bit less believable than the fact that you can throw basketballs at your enemies to incapacitate them Michael Jordan in the windy city by today. That is our show our producer. Melissa Kaplan wasn't a Pashas and subscribe or just which out dot com slash hangup. Email us at hangup sleep dot com. You are still here. You might want even more hang up and listen in our bonus segment this week. We're joined by our colleague. Heather twiddle sports newbie talked about her experience watching plus dance with the bullying and trash talk in general I mean. I realized that he was painting. A Rosier picture of it then was probably really true. Because yeah if I were a rookie and had Michael Jordan Lake terrifying me all the time. I would hate that. I wouldn't think the payments in the same way as at all conversation. Join slate plus. It's just thirty five dollars for the first year you can sign up at slate. Dot Com slash. Hang up plus for Joel Anderson and Stephan Pat says. I'm Josh Levin Remembers almost movie and thanks for listening.

Michael Jordan NFL NBA director Michael Jordan Joel Utah basketball Phil Jackson Pippen Steve Kerr Scotty Scottie Pippen Scottie Denis Rodman Ron Harper Steve Scottie Pippen Chicago Bulls Brian Russell Bulls football Washington Dennis Rodman
Effectively Wild Episode 1482: Multisport Sabermetrics Exchange (Diversity and Inclusion)

Effectively Wild: A FanGraphs Baseball Podcast

1:22:57 hr | 1 year ago

Effectively Wild Episode 1482: Multisport Sabermetrics Exchange (Diversity and Inclusion)

"He was Gotcha. So the can see the very best. What you guy to For two see and made them who was made you. You got your profits and no man the vocal few gen show. Tell me were J.. F. Words may blow in welcome to episode fourteen eighty two of effectively wild baseball podcast from famed graphs presented by our Patriot supporters. I am Ben. Lindberg of the ringer when you're listening to the final installment of our seven part multi-sports sabermetrics Exchan- series in which we have provided a primer on the past present and future of advanced danced analytics in a dozen different non baseball sports. If you're just joining us now we've talked about American Football Basketball Hockey Cricket Tennis Golf Soccer Rugby eastport Volleyball Nascar and cycling. I hope you've enjoyed it as much as I have at the end of this episode I'll share some takeaways from the series as a whole some things that have stood out to me over over. The course of these interviews have definitely learned a lot of enjoyed talking to people from each of these fields. We've had a lot of great guests but one thing you may also have noticed is that we've had a lot of white Guy Mike guests and that's something that's historically tended to be true about the sports analytics industry in general if you delve into the history of Sabermetrics and other sports analytical movements governments as we have with some of their longstanding proponents in this series you notice that it has not tended to be a very diverse group of researchers and writers analysts and fortunately that's changing and on previous episodes of the podcast we've talked to some of the women who were working in. Mlb Front offices today in our in D. roles it's becoming more common belatedly. Yeah but today I wanted to explore some of the reasons why historically speaking women and people of Color have been underrepresented in research and development departments inside sports teams and also in analytically oriented roles in sports media in addition to sports media. More broadly and to try to talk about some of the ways that might change some of the people who are trying to change it. And why why. It's so important to change it later in the episode. I'll be talking to Tiffany Kelly about her experience in the sports analytics field. But before I bring on Tiffany I have another guest lined up and unlike a lot a lot of the segments in the series this one will really be about baseball because my first guest was intimately involved in the origins of sabermetrics and fused landscape. We enjoy or mostly mostly enjoyed today. I am joined now by Sherry Nichols. Who is one of the formative figures in Sabermetrics in baseball and I had pleasure of talking to earn? I'm telling her story at the Ringer early in twenty eighteen and I am overdue to have her on the podcast to tell her story herself. So Hi Sherry. Hi Ed so so tell me a little bit about your childhood and growing up in Clarksville Tennessee which I think you told me was about equidistant from Atlanta within Saint Louis and Cincinnati. So you had your choice of of Major League teams. You grew up as a baseball lover. So how did that come to be. Don't really remember not being a baseball fan. My Dad Baseball Fan so just always baseball was always round. I remember you know as a kid. Old enough that recess more often than we had P in school and I remember playing baseball with all the boys when when I was at first and second grade and I remember being very upset when I found out that I couldn't play the league the boys were GonNa play Little League and I still I could because I was a girl and I didn't understand that but that's one. The League didn't allow girls so I grew up in Clarksville. This is in the seventies so the big red machine was you know going along and so We would listen to Reds Reds Games on the radio or as many games televised back then we get reds games and braves games on the radio. The brave sort is good of course so my brother and I were became more reds fans and we would occasionally make trips up Cincinnati. See Games did doc few times. Were you interested in this statistical side of basse-bolle at that early age or did that not come until later. Well my brother other course played little league and so He was a couple of years younger when he started playing little league. One day is coach. Came over with the scorebook book and needed someone to score games for the team and he handed the scorebook to be said here. You can figure this out. And and so. That's how I got started scoring baseball games. And of Inslee Baid spending money scoring income working as the score keeper for the League. So I did that and my teens and that was fine. So that's sort of how I got into statistics. Six in that sense and baseball always interested in math so it was good in math so natural fed and did that experience of keeping score our make you think about what valuable in baseball games in any UNORTHODOX WAY or or at that time. Were you just thinking yet batting average and RBI. That's all we need. I don't think it really made me think about. This is just an for fund than babysitting for picking up spending money and A guess at that time it wasn't really a a baseball analytics community. They were a few people here and there were doing things mostly on their own. So you later went to Carnegie Mellon and we can talk about how that brought you back to baseball and even deeper way but were you aware it for you found the online community while you were at Carnegie Mellon that anyone had really done any baseball analysis and research of statistical nature but Johnson College. I remember that was the sports illustrated article about bill. James came out so I mean I I read that and thought that's interesting is really thinking about the different way drawn to that. I didn't know anybody doing that kind of work and I was in college time so you had gotten your degree in physics six at Tennessee tech and then you went to study computer science. So how did that lead you to baseball. Well up to to Pittsburgh pretty the early on met David who eventually became my husband and He was also a baseball fan and I had always been baseball fan. And there's a community within within the Department who are all baseball fans and we found the abstract buildings baseball abstract and read it and learned about project scoresheet and got involved with that it and then started going to Sabkha mentions the I got involved on wreck sport. Baseball the usenet group and everything to serve flowed out of all of those the various things I met people and now it's sort of messed a lot of interest is interested in baseball. I think analytically anyway computer programmer. I I like writes. Export Baseball was interesting. Yeah outlet for all that and was very heartening to discover this like minded community of people who are looking at baseball in a different way and were your eyes opened by that community amid. I know that you opened is in that community to fun. Gary Huckabee was entertaining. I really sort of tone on there and it was just a fun fun place to hang hang out. I met a number of people on that community in person and just a lot of fun and the project was a lot of work and a lot of fun interesting think People Sabre Conventions Gir- a lot of fun make friends there that you know. I'm still really friends with like David Smith and Tom Tippett. It is cool time. Yes so Jerry. Huckaby of course one of the founders of baseball prospectus and many of the other eventual enters. VP were Also on Rick's were paced time in for people who were not rounded and having read about all this use net was essentially like precursor to you to read it but in the eighties and through forums or bulletin boards and and all of it is archived now at Google groups so you can actually go back Atkin and resolve the wrecks baseball posts from the eighties. which is entertaining high to that time but you became kind of one one of the leading lights in that community from the people that I spoke to remembered fondly reading what you wrote about at that time and remember what sort sort of topics animated you or? What kind of research was most interesting to you at the time? This is taking a whole analytical approach and sort of looking at you know what are we really know. And how can we look at things you know if this is true then what would be what would it look. It's like the way I think about it so if it is true that you know sacrifice bunt sir are important than what would be the result of that and if you don't see the result then maybe those aren't as important you know and so you start looking looking at it from that approach. The new conserve start backing out and going okay. What really does matter and you? Can you know you start. Learning that. Getting on base is important outs really bad areas. They're just another way that outstart made. Yeah Yeah just sort of looking at at the results and backing down to yes. It's like if this is true. What must be true as a result and and if you don't see the result that's not true right and this was before of the started to actually lead into the game and before Internet analysts started to be hired by teams and team started to think this way so was there sort of a an US versus them and obviously the early days? EP There was sort of a snarky tone to it which I think was appropriate because you know it was sort of this outsider cider voice that no one was listening to and if they were listening they were making fun of it so I guess you had to sort of fight fire with fire. Yeah Baseball Talk Perspective. Stephanie had a snarky tone wreck sport. Baseball has snarky town I. We were definitely outsiders. Bill Dame's was an outsider back. Then and he you know he started project scoresheet because he couldn't get the data. Yeah I mean you know there was no other way to get the data but to collect yourself yourself and I think that's one of the things that people today don't realize is that there wasn't a data we had to collect you know as those. I went to Carnegie Mellon last year to their sports at Holidays Conference. And I'm talking to to like I had to step back and realized that they don't understand that there was no data scrape off the Internet. There was barely. Yeah Yeah I mean it was difficult to impossible to answer you even the most basic questions us you know you couldn't even look up. How how someone had hit? I mean you have to Lug around the baseball encyclopedia or something and even that had just the most basic stats and mlb the N.. Word Spiro at the time was very protective of of the data that had so they wouldn't share anything. Guess they wouldn't share no Elias. I wouldn't share anything. That's that's why they'll start. The project was Elias would share. So yeah it's really crazy that the project Roger worked as well as it did. I mean it's all volunteer organization trying to score every single game as it happens. Yeah it's ridiculous kill it. Sort of worked for a number of years. Yes so that was what eighty four or so as think it started. Maybe and yes. So so how were I mean. I know that you weren't Giving out the assignments I guess at that time. But how generally was it organized. In what was the process of scoring scoring a game link. There were team captains in each major league city than volunteers and the team captains would try to assign nine games to everybody and pick up any games that were covered so people were scoring games both in the park and off of TV and you know lot of times at the end of the season trying to catch up on games that were missed tape recorded on VHS in the day yes we're trying to get all the games covered. It's amazing that it worked as well as it did. Jimmy you just had some people who are doing as Labor of love and a few people were doing a lot of work and a number of people were doing a little bit of work like in any organization and sort of work for a number of years. Yeah and what data was recorded. Because you were able to the do some of your later defensive work because the trajectories of falls were recorded with some precision. So how how granular was initially. It was just play-by-play data. Eventually we started recording pitch by pitch and hit location so it wasn't really trajectory but each scorer recorded where the ball landed or was fielded or. Yes it wasn't perfect but it was an idea of sort of where the ball was. Nothing like you have today with stack cast and So that was the last few years of it had had hit location and once we had hit location then you could start doing stuff. Food Defensive Data you can start looking at. That's when it became possible US will do defensive. Average as the field was divided into locations we serve arbitrarily divided into to a grid moross and each hitless. Assign to a batted ball put in a grid and then Pete and I were talking about defensive average we assigned each fielder an area of the field and looked at it has many balls were hit into that area and have any balls. They actually successfully turned to the outs and computer defensive average rate it and that is the same basic framework that many of the subsequent defensive stats used them continue to use something like ultimate zone rating for instance as I discovered as I was working on this article. There's a direct lineage. There to one of the defensive systems Adams that is part of the input for pickled clubs now the Sabre Defensive Index that stat essentially just borrowed the design. And that you had come up with for defensive average so essentially the work that you were doing back in the late. Eighty S is now indirectly or fairly directly actually reflected in who actually wins a gold glove award. Which is pretty amazing? Because I'd imagine at the time you probably exposed some players players who were very much not deserving of clubs winning them and players who should have been winning them who were not definitely differences between what perception and defensive average showed as what defensive average joes reality anyway. I don't want to say what reality is. Because you know who knows this but Yeah there were definitely some some striking differences because back then it was all about. Filling percentage of that was basically Klay what decided gloves back. Them's fielding percentage so it was all about errors and if I had my way we wouldn't even charge airs because as I don't think errors. Tell us anything they just. This is the play not made. Yeah and do you remember any misconceptions that you helped overturn nerd or that were sort of I. Guess the things that people at at expert baseball whether it was defense or or otherwise things that were frequent subjects subject of debate. Or maybe when you came up with defensive average you had some insights about the nature of defense or or certain players who people. We're surprised or you were surprised to find. Were more valuable or or West valuable than generally believed the one. The one that was most memorable a Nisa Carney Lansford who had a reputation of being a good defender because he was always diving balls and all that but he was diving driving for most because he could move Adna range so the defensive average showed that he had no range age if he could get to he was good at fielding it but he could get to and if I woke up his baseball reference Patriot. Now he has a negative forty-six fielding runs so that that holds up total zone says the same thing that defensive average did so what was the process of calculating calculating that step. Because you'd get the the project scoresheet data so all of these. What would it be input the computer and then collided somehow? And how did you get from that to the output. Well there was all the Games. Were input into a computer. There were actually on a library very of programs for processing the data. The David and Tom Tippett had written so there were some already some code for you're getting the data into usable shape and I wrote code to take data. pull out what I needed and calculate from there so yeah it wasn't as easy as just you know pulling data and putting it into a spreadsheet but the project excursion data was in a regular fashion. You know it had a play by play data but there was a library of Code. That had the engine for pulling pulling out the play by play data out of it in a reasonable fashion. I I can't remember the exact details of everything now because it's been thirty years since I wrote that code food but yeah so as you're going through the physics program and the Computer Science Program and then you're on. Rex worked baseball. What did the demographics graphics of these groups typically look like and where you often the only woman are one of the very few yes Often the only or very few my physics program an undergraduate. WHO's a little unusual? There actually were fair. I mean it's a small all program and it just happened that there were several women in it and graduate school when I entered I entered in nineteen eighty four four and it was about twenty one. Say Twenty five percent women in my class. which was I think? Sort around the appeak things serlin downhill from there but it was mostly the women. Were all graduate. Students there are only two when professors and one of them was first year professor so media. You didn't have a lot of role models or mentors wreck sport baseball. There weren't very many women in there certainly weren't very many women as active and vocal as I was in there. Were some women in Saber. The project again. Not many women as active and vocal as I was and it was rex for baseball generally a- A welcoming community or or was there resentment or bias or disparagement that with crop up from time to time deaf. Sally disparagement crop up from time to time but there was generally a group that kept it from getting out of hand. I mean they're strong group group of men on there who just didn't let that who would stand up and not let go like Gary and some others and was that underrepresentation representation either either there or in the classes that you were taking. was that daunting to you. Discouraging or was it a challenge that you wanted to embrace it. Was this just like the air around me of what I had always been around so I did. I didn't really think about it that much. Then and I'm more aware of it now in a sense than that and Si- can see the impact of it more now looking back then I could then if it was just it was just the way it was. I remember feeling it and being annoyed by it but thinking well okay. At least I'll make it better for the people coming after me. And what's frustrating to me now is. I'm not sure how much we did make it better for the people coming after but yet young do you have your is about why. It hasn't changed more quickly or I guess ideas about how it could definitely have ideas about. How could good? I don't know why well in Tech Anyway. I mean I think if more than just pay lip service to the idea of diversity. They could make it happen I think if they treated it like a problem like they treat any other problem they would change the way they do things but they keep Doing things the same way expecting different results they keep talking about the pipeline. The problem is not the pipeline problems that women come into tack. Can they leave. Yeah because it's not a environment that women want to stay in. Yeah I think you you told me when we spoke for the article you said I know how hard hard it is to be in a field where there's nobody like you. It's a constant subtle message that maybe you don't belong that when you screw up. Maybe it's more than just a mistake. Which I guess is what you were alluding to as something that may be? You've realized that. Most in retrospect more so than at the time so at that time it really wasn't even an an option to do stats for baseball team. There were just a vanishingly small number of people doing that so it wasn't something that you strongly considered as as a career It could become one for for anyone but you did have One close call or I guess one one encounter her with a major league team which I thought was great story while you were at at Carnegie Mellon so I will ask you to retell it for our audience. Yeah so at one point. Courtesy melon head a small ownership stake in the pirates one point when the pirates were going to leave Pittsburgh Oregon. Some group bought them in Carnegie Mellon had a small ownership snaking so the GM at the time had some idea and and wanted some people to come do some work for them. Two convinces field manager. Was Jim Leyland at the time. And so you know we're got some MVP at Carnegie Mellon trickled down to David and I and A friend of ours. Who's also baseball fan? And so we went and had a meeting with gm mm-hmm. I think Larry Doughty time and so we had a meeting with him and I can't even remember what his idea was did make any sense but he was convinced events that he was right and he just needed he just needed proof that he could beat Leland over the head with to convince them that this was right and it was also clear that if we came up with data that matches conclusion that we we will do and it was also clear that they weren't interested in you know paying us anything anything at all much less anything commensurate with the amount of work but we got a meeting at the pirates and dinner in the in the press box then got to watch the game for a few innings from this is in three rivers and there was a right behind home plate there was a little window underneath the stands little area underneath the stands hands behind home plate with little window. And that's where the grounds crew hung out and so we got to go down there and the grounds who's really not very comfortable title with me being down there because I was a woman and then they could curse so then at one point. Jim Got Pitcher for the pirates. WHO's on the Dale Time? I am comes bouncing in. There is no no no stop. Stop this woman. My other favorite Pirates story is later several years later when I was doing some stuff wretched one that was on the Board Rashit and it was. This is after. I'd moved away from Pittsburgh but it was back in Pittsburgh for Sabre Meeting and David Smith and I had a meeting with the pirates to talk with them about some pirates score sheets and Soviet remitting the sky who's who's barely worked his new the pirates and he doesn't he's like their PR person and meeting with him and he's like I don't know you know. The score sheets probably probably got lost in the move from Forbes field to three rivers. I don't know where they would be the only person who might know retired. And it's clear. He is known anything. So I'm sitting there and I'm bored because this guy knows nothing is worthless and so I'm just looking around his office because is on board and I see these books on a bookcase on lower shelf and then going those are interesting. Does the clock could be scorching so I think like what did those he has. I don't know and he goes over the score sheets. He know where they were but I found them Russia sheet. We've had David Smith on the on the podcast to talk about the origins of retro sheep. At you were the First Vice President and treasurer of Retro Sheet. You you kept down in that capacity until two thousand three and you made what may have been your greatest contribution to sabermetrics by insisting that everything richie to be free forever. And so that's why we have this great data available to us. So how did you come to be involved with retreat. I guess it was a natural extension of project scoresheet. But how did you decide. You wanted to take on a leadership role there and then and how did it come up that you wanted that to be the position of the organization. Well I met David Smith Sabre Commissions. He'd been involved with the the project. So heads crazy idea about retro cheat and yeah it sounded great having play by play date. I go back in the past. Ask to be marvelous. And so he's forming the services ation and once asked for David or I one served on the board and so David now discuss it. Nice side of the he had served on the project board at the end so I stepped up serve on retro aboard and so they were discussing so if we we had all been involved to some degree with with project scoresheet and seeing how trying nine to the people who were trying to make a career out of project scoresheet especially at the end and trying trying to sell the data and people trying to have a volunteer organization with people who wanted to make a living. Doing this head created a lot of problems and it was clear that to do retro sheet going to require a lot of volunteer time it was also clear that the data did have some value. We could sell the data but probably not enough to compensate everybody for the amount of time and it was fortunate that you know David Smith wasn't interested in trying to make a living out of baseball. He was a tenured professor at the University Save Delaware I wasn't interested in trying to make them living out of baseball. Ira Yeah it's time had a job. Yeah the main people involved and weren't trying to leverage this into a living in baseball and so as said let's not try console the data that just complicates our lives. It makes everybody unhappy. Let's give the data away s for credit and if we need money to run the organization last part and that made it much easier to get score Gore sheets from the major league teams because the major league teams didn't score sheets were valuable but they don't like the idea of somebody making money the author of their stuff. I mean I think you know now I think they understand the value of them back then. They didn't think they were valuable. Yeah made it easy to get score sheets from retired. Sports writers made easier to Dur with the hall of fame. Because we weren't trying to make money off of it and so oh yeah you look at. What's come out of that? All the people who've been able to do stuff because the retro data is free. It's just incredible yes. Yeah I'm grateful for that. I'm sure many people are grateful for that. It's made so much of what this whole community has done in the past two Decades possible so it would have been. I guess said if richer. She'd had the turned into the sports bureau walled off. It's it's data too too so I should also I think ask you about the aphorism the saying that bears your name because that is what originally commute to you because I kept reading about the Nickelsville of catcher defense After I'd seen it enough times I started wondering who's Nichols and in fact just last month in the transaction analysis at Fan When yes Monte Grondahl signed with the White Sex Nichols love catcher? Defense was cited did granted by dense. Gorski who was on expert baseball back in the day but it still shows up so tell us about the Nikola. Aw Yeah I never would have dreamed that it would still be being cited all these years later and an and some Sunday disproven context so this this is back in the eighties. I guess I had seen Mickey Olson play for the Oakland A.'s. Where he had been a you know hit good defense catcher or that had been the perception of him and that I'd seen him signed with the Orioles and suddenly he was was hitting slugger catcher? And now I'm reading that well his good hitter. But he's not very good defensive catcher and I'm going wait a minute. This is the same guy I had seen him play in Oakland Lebron reading about how good defensive catcher even though he couldn't hit I'm going what's the deal here not more about it and I'm going okay. I see this pattern here that we have no idea how especially selected new idea. Who's a good defense? We have no idea how to measure culture. Defense was nobody really knows and so the same to be this assumption that if catcher couldn't hit he must be good defensively because else why would he be on the team but if he had hit probably not very good defensive. Unless you're The Jani Bench for Johnny Bench than Yeah. You can do everything. So that's how I came up with Nichols Law catcher defense that a catcher's defensive defensive prowess inversely proportional to his offensive prowess yeah that perception preppy still exists to some extent now that we have better stats for catchers and can quantify events much more accurately. I guess it's harder to have that misconception but still I think there's awesome inclination to that so I think that probably accounts for why that takes still lives up after twenty years or more so I I also also wanted to ask so when I spoke to Gary Huckabee he compliment to do and what an impression you made on him. At the time and in the very I forward to a baseball prospectus annual in nineteen ninety six he thanked you immediately after the other. BP CO-FOUNDERS WHO had helped him write the book cook and he wrote Sherry has taught me more about baseball than anyone else in the entire world. So it is certainly possible that spot perspectives would not have existed or existed in the way that it did. If you had not made that impression on Gary but did you consider writing about baseball pursuing some sort word of prayer in baseball you eventually went onto to work on software EDITO B but was there any temptation to stay in that sabermetrics world. Not really by the time. By the time Gary Did Baseball Prospectus. My daughter had been born. I was really starting to fade out of baseball all that that point. I did some writing for the project did The Great American baseball step book. I did some writing for that. Never really was that strongly tempted to try to do anything professionally. Baseball related. Money was too good. And can you explain the major addition you you made to software too. Because that's another thing that I know has been sort of brought up again again after some passage of time and and appreciated for the impact that it made soon. After I left graduate school I dropped out of graduate school dropped out of a PhD. St Program I went to work on Campus Mellon the Information Technology Center which was a joint carnegie-mellon IBM project project to sort of build the campus computing environment of the future. And the thing I worked on was the Andrew file system which was A distributive file system so this is back in the eighties so this is one of the things. IBM Did was wire. The entire campus purpose for Internet. So this is before. Why five this is it? This is unusual. All the dorm rooms everything was was on the Internet. And so we built a file system so that you could walk up to any computer on campus and log in and see your defiles so things like dropbox today or the dropbox founder sites. The file systems one of his influences. So we we've built that back in the eighties in this was just unheard off and wrote a paper about it that is in one of the big operating operating systems journals and just a couple years ago we won An ACM award the software systems award for influential software systems. So that's pretty cool. Yeah so as you kind of. I guess drifted a little bit back into the okay CPAP world over the last couple years just through articles and and speaking at Cmu and making the cover of of the Carnegie Mellon magazine Seen Have you dabbled it all into the current state of Sabermetrics in-stat cast in and all of that. If anything it must just inspire envy of at this the people working with that now as opposed to what you had to work with the thirty years ago. I haven't really gotten it into that I'm pretty busy suffering doing now but it's pretty cool Yeah I look at all the defensive shifts and go well well defensive average doesn't really fit anymore all these shifts break it. That's true. Yeah the systems are trying to account for that now said scoresheet would have had to record the starting position of of all the fields too. So and have you made any connections because of this. Have you talked to any maybe young women who are trying to get into the field now her hurt your story i. It's interesting the connections. You may free connected with some people like Christina. Carl the hadn't connected with a long time and Keith Wallner Keith. Wilner came in Carnegie Mellon talked to him ages yet. But it's interesting like a friend of bovine worked on. AFS with the file system. His daughter found out I was having dinner with him as his daughter found out that he was having dinner with me and she had read the rear article and she's a sports fan. Since you're having dinner Nicholson's take strain. Well it's nice that the story is coming to the attention of some people apple and I know just from having worked on it that when I was speaking to some of the women who are working for offices today and they weren't aware of of it I think they thought it was somewhat inspirational to know that that had happened because I just kept seeing your name and address. Even you didn't know necessarily early. The the extent of the impact that you had to the gold glove voting for instance. That was something I was happy to to turn up. Yeah I had no idea about that and Yeah you talked to some people who are in front offices today. Who had read me expert baseball than I be? Careful what you read on the Internet. It's it's out there for her. I'm glad he could have this conversation. And I know you're busy now with your your work with the ACLU and powerlifting and all the things sitter are keeping you busy but Adam you made a huge contribution to baseball analysis. I think is continuing to have an impact. So thank you for that up and thanks again for your time. Thank you all right. Let's take a quick break and we'll be right back with tiffany Kelly to talk about her experience breaking into sports analytics build so I'm joined now by Tiffany Kelly. A Sports Entrepreneur and data scientists studied sports analytics in school and then went on to work as an analytics consultant for the Miami Heat and then joined. ESPN as a sports analytics associate where she was the first woman of color on ESPN's sports analytics politics team. She has also written for the undefeated and she's involved in many other projects. which maybe we will touch on tiffany? Welcome thanks so much for having thing me happy too. So give me your backstory. Tell me how you decided that you wanted to become involved in sports and then how you set about acquiring during the the skills to get involved in sports analytics so sports is definitely kind of this way for my family to bond growing up so I knew that I wanted to work in sports. I just didn't know what capacity yet whenever I was in high school and growing up. And so we had this thing it was career day where we job op shadowed people that we eventually wanted to become my senior of high school and so one of my friends actually was connected with the staff at the Hornets at the time. Now the Pelicans down in New Orleans so I signed up to job shadow for two game nights the public relations team but like that entire tonight kind of change the entire trajectory of my career because it was the PR staff was super busy that night. So because Wolf Peril is there so it makes total sense so they stuck me with the stats guys. And they're like hey hang out with them for awhile and will come back and get you but during. I think it was three the quarters that they stuck me with them. I just started noticing that their job was so cool they were running the stats to personnel. They were putting it into the NBA DOT com website after every quarter and stayed for press conferences at the end of the game as well and the coolest thing was during halftime time so we were handing out stat sheet Toumani Williams. WHO's a coach at the time? Enter the Front office staff. So I actually like poked my head in peaked. My head added to the on the president's weak because they were delivering stats the president's tweets. There was kind of like this golden ticket moment like Oh my God. Those guys are awesome. They literally talked to everyone in the front office in just not even just in front office marketing public relations. Everyone right like everyone knew them. I am so this is what I want to do with my life a seventeen year old. So when you read this in your undefeated article you you said they look tired and they were yeah manually inputting steps until one a m with an empty potato chip bag at sometimes. You just gotTa get on on that no. They weren't so not took money because they were kind of put in this makeshift closet. Like act like an office kind of thing so I was just like Oh okay and I had to leave because it was the school night so I didn't even say for the press conference but you definitely got to notice that what they were doing you come Super Hurley Game Day new. Stay two and three Depending on how late the game has so. I'm but besides that I didn't I didn't fully focus on every job has it's it's tough half points but I just as a seventeen year old senior in high school. I just super intrigued. Just that they got to go everywhere within the entire arena. So I interest was focused on that. This is amazing. Yeah so then. How did you decide how to get to this exalted position in the closet? Yes so I knew that I wanted to do it so I made sure that my on what I focused on in college kind of fully surrounded that but a ha there. We're not sports analytics degrees right. So I had to kind of create my own sale. I went to Novus these university down in Fort Lauderdale which is actually where the dolphin extreme But they're they're moving to the Hawks Stadium. I think they moved there either moving next year or they move this year so I went to school there and my degree was actually we. My Bachelor's is officially sports management but I added computer science and Statistics minor so I was kind of like basically creating my own words analytics degree because I knew that I needed the statistical foundations mathematical modeling. And then I also needed to know how to program Graham those models as well right but also wanted to have the sports management background. Like I wanted to just understand how to run a team and just things that the matter salary cap like finances all that good stuff that you cover within sports management. I also knew that I needed that so I kind of just created this melting pot a lot of information that I noticed when I was young that would kind of me and get me into the career and did you have any mentors tours in that process or or were there people in your family or your community who has done something similar where you sort of displacing your trip. Great Question I actually. My Statistics Hazard was by mentor. So Funny Enough I actually thought my stats classes. We're GONNA kind of be boring. That's what everyone tells you. But first day he starts talking about sports examples and I was just like. Oh okay. I'm definitely GonNa like this and so so right. So like hypothesis offers testing all that good stuff every single example majority of them he used force and that kind of just started our relationship and yes. Oh my statistics oppressor Dr Dr Gershman down in Florida. He was kind of the main mentor that I had growing up to eat to even wear. I was also honor student at my college so we got ought to kind of either take honors classes or do a thesis which of course I picked these this route so we had a lot of one on one classes where is literally just condemn scripting in our my thesis project which was on the on the triangle. Offense which was really interesting but but yeah so now that I would say he was my mentor growing up and so as you were going through this program were you very much in the minority. I mean was this male or White task kind of class. I guess at the time one hundred percent so I in all of my computer science classes like programming PSY posts plus. I was definitely the only like minority when it comes to being an ethnicity for sure there. There were three other gender minority so there were three other women within the classes but then those programming classes database statistics. Not so much. Because you you those are more of the. I don't WanNA flagship. Those are more courses at a larger audience took but yeah. It's definitely been a reoccurring thanks theme by entire life. I mean also just I went to a predominantly white high school growing up in the south as well. It's it's it's an amazing high school. It's one of the that's high school. We have a blue Ribbon School of excellence for four years. which I think there's a cap but yeah so that's kind of just been a norm for me so I mean it's daunting for anyone to try to break into the sports world or or sports analytics but that may be adds an extra challenge where you know when I'm trying rank to get into this line of work and I'm thinking gee maybe I want to try to do something with sabermetrics? I didn't have to wonder. have any white guys ever done with safe taper metrics and so. was that something that weighed on you as you were going through this process that there were few people that you could point to to say. Yes someone who who who looks like me has has done. This and succeeded are now so I might. My parents are amazing because they raised me to understand obviously just history but they also raised me to not focus on it so much so so to kind of be in the the middle area but just to balance like if something does happen to me that does feel racially motivated or a a prejudiced than understanding that. That's what that is but also not just being so obsessed with it like God. Is this going to happen to me. Everywhere that I walk but so kind of growing up being raised with that mentality going back to that night in New Orleans where he wants the stats dies in the PR staff. It is something I noticed artist so I I guess I noticed more so as gender diversity. How a lot of the women kind of all had similar roles but they all Kinda fit a certain mold whether they kind of worked with marketing? Pr Or they were in front of the camera and it wasn't until I got moved with stats guys. I was the only woman and I mean Montiel as a person of color but I was definitely the only woman of color maneuvering around the hallways within the arena And near the locker rooms and actually like poking my head in the presence we. So that's when it definitely dawned on me that was just like Ooh they didn't dawn on me in a negative way don on me like Oh like why is like this. I definitely want to figure out a way to change this. In on the way back home to Baton Rouge was like forty five minute drive with my dad. I mentioned it to him and he was just like okay. Like why are you GonNa do about on just like you know. I'm not working a front office and I'M GONNA I'm GonNa Change that and kind of figure out what's what's going on. So yeah I I noticed it early on. I think that's because I was raised that way. In how did you end up at. ESPN and went to work. Did you do there. Yes so I went a year which actually kind of goes into what we're talking about. I went a year without being hired so I when I finished up got my degree at Nova as actually interviewing with an NFL team for six months. which didn't end up happening? Because one of their their top personnel left last minute so they had to kind of halt the position and understand. Hey tiff like you're amazing. We're GONNA hire you but this happened we can. I'm kind of connect you to people that we know because we know you want to work in the NBA. I was actually really funny because like an NFL team as we know you work. So we'll connect you with someone with the League office containing issue going. So that's what they did. I honestly think I interviewed with about five to ten. NBA teams within a year. No that seems so small but obviously there's not that many there's a handful also. It was just super tough and interviewing for an entire year. I mean it kind of dawned on on me like this is not gonna be easy and not that. I thought that it would but I think interviewing her foyer royer and also understanding like I was kind of the only only but the one of the main Women of color like doing sports analytics. That also is in the back of my mind. Were there moments where I mean. You don't always know obviously wia says no or doesn't respond but were there moments where you thought it might be because of a bias or was it just something when it keeps going on and on and maybe you see other people with similar trading get get jobs than you start to wonder. It started to dawn on me. I think maybe halfway through the year of that year when I was interviewing because two teams actually so I Iowa's referred by one of the top people than basketball analytics who kind of became my mentor during that year and he referred me to a lot of of teams at the time and I talk about an article a little bit. There's one team they were hiring and a handful of people were referred. Obviously you don't refer and so it was tough though because sitting email radio silence followed up. Maybe a few days after that radio silence again and it wasn't until will I was at work. I was working with L. buttocks during that year so while I was at work I get this text from one of my friends in the industry saying. Hey tiff can you help me. With Sanath methodology because you interviewed for front office or just any technical job you have interview process technical and so he wanted me to help almost nothing like Oh yeah for sure what is it for and he was just like. Oh it's for this job and the job that I was waiting here background and the job. Bob was needed a bachelors degree and Mike My Friend. My colleague did not have about degree and I did so. I doubt that was the first time I was like okay. This is actually happening and the second time was an. NBA team told me. I was second tier in their candidates. which is okay okay cool like you rank your candidate? I don't know what you're ranking them on but I kind of introduced myself to them at. Mit Sloan which is our huge conference. And and I sent them. Mike Cote sent them snippet of code. Now just a K- this is just something that I've done. And they were like actually interview within the next few weeks and I was like cool. Let's totally do that. And what's crazy is on the interview. GM was on the phone. which after I had the interview I attacks one of my friends that was affiliated with that front office and I was just like hey because this normal he's like was it? Your second interview or third interview was like no the first one. He's he's like. Yeah No. That's definitely not normal. So I think those two instances which are which were a few months apart before I kind of made my way to ESPN as when it kind of dawned on me like okay like this is actually really tough to where I was even kind of second guessing like do I even want to continue in this profession or stay on this trajectory but I apply for the ESPN Pakistan to make a long story short. I applied for the Pakistan and was accepted in presented my findings which I think within that year it was on measuring the measurable though I did the NBA Hustle difficulty complex. If entity Have read basketball. The ball on paper by Dean Oliver. It's fantastic but he essentially has this this crazy crazy these formulas that are quantifying individual points allowed allowed and individual points produced on both the offense the defense events. I basically took that I just added an hustle for that because the NBA came out with hustle metrics those five hostile message so I presented dot mit and then ESPN started the interview process like that day and I got hired within a within a month so I think slow not year was March. I believe it was in March interview process starting March and then I was going up to. Espn Mike June fifth and Beautiful Bristol. So yeah there was a story in the Times last month about Rachel. Belka evacuate was hired by the Yankees. And she's going to be the first woman to be a a fulltime hidden. Coach hired a major league organization and there is a an anecdote stowe she told in there. About how you know. She was trying to get a full time position in affiliated baseball and she wasn't getting call backs and when she was applying for or strength and conditioning jabs at that time and so she changed her name on her resume our from Rachel to rape. which is you know sort of indeterminate? And and then she said she started getting calls and the colors were surprised to hear a woman's voice on the other end and she said some of them wouldn't call back when team told her. It would not hire a woman which you know you. You wouldn't normally expect it to be so explicit even if it is implicit but that experiences is out Out there so you end up at ESPN. And what sort of work were you doing. Yeah so I was R for Channel Team within our stats information group. So our staff information group is the entire brain when it comes to all the like numbers you see throughout programming so so on. ESPN the channels throughout games. Everything that you see on on programming digital what have you. It's it comes from staff himself and so therefore arms against him. This team which was a team of eight people. The research team the bottom line team and so just the ticker that you see at the bottom. And then I think the stacks teen which kind of focuses on play-by-play data so you're a four teams. I was on our sports team as associate so I wasn't actually supposed to be just like building metrics by myself but of course in in tiffany fashion when I got there by manager gave me a project two hours of my day it was just like hey. The magazine wants us to quantify Fi the happiest college football fan bases and from Banerjee Louisiana. This was like heaven because go tigers so I was so exciting. Okay don't spend to China to get your feet wet suits you can do so. Of course I mean I spent about like three months actually it kind of working through the methodology in and building a metric and it was launched. It got over a million views within a couple of days which is huge so a lot of people kinda started to notice and started to notice our team more which was definitely very interesting and end. Were you able to do a lot of other independent projects like that during your time there. Yeah so there was another one in our team was pretty like all kind of work together are and kind of build metrics with each other like if one of us was building metric and we need to help one methodology. We help each other so I also worked on our fantasy Hennessy. Soccer Projections with one of our swore specialists on the team and I also worked on the with a problematic top. Twenty call triple champions In the past twenty years which was actually on Fox sports one like like they were actually talking about which was hilarious but yes I got I got to actually do. The methodology for that list. Increase that list so there were definitely a lot of a lot of projects that I worked on. I got to kind of get into a win probability a little bit more. I looked at some different sports baseball. And all that good stuff so definitely definitely at a company like ESPN where it's all sports. You kinda get to work on ally and just building metrics for all of this so you were at ESPN until early in two thousand nineteen and then at least looking at your linked in it. It looks like you've moved on and youth started some other things. Listen you're involved in a few project. So what are you working on these days. Yeah so I quit in January and I do want to say like with p. just focusing on diversity and within sports analytics just the reason I left was essentially kind of surrounding that 'cause I was first female of color you're on the team. The only female color like two hundred three hundred person department so definitely super homely and Dan kind of when the trajectory that was happening for the team which was awesome. I created the the happiness metric they essentially wanted someone to face much work and it was a pretty tough time where I didn't have the support from my team my department even from and having the support from producers and wanting that to be me but kind of having it be told to me that we don't feel comfortable with the representing us on TV super tough and I think it's like being a woman and a female in color just within sports Like since I started just always having had this tough exterior so that was one of the main reasons why left and Liaquat in January. Yeah so I I quit for startup world but I'm on building my own entertainment. Sports Entertainment Media Tech Start up now with athlete driven media and individual media being just such a norm now and now with NC a student athletes being able to WANNA ties name image likeness. I knew that something needed to exist for them. To able to easily create their own media uneasily monetize separate from the current options that are that are currently out there in the market. So what I'm doing now. So it launches into end of this quarter one next year. Good luck with it and thank you that. ESPN experience sort of Sour. You on your original goal of working working for for a team or an organization and did you feel like you needed to start something of your own or would you still be interested in doing that. Ten the wrote essentially you if the opportunity presents itself for me to go back and within a front office maybe but I do think it's. It's super interesting. Just just thoughts and opinions surrounding might minorities within sports analytics right and we both mentioned like just some comments that commentator the SPN have had. Ed So Jalen rose mention something in the summer but also like Steven A. Has the exact same thought process to write like that. There's kind of this. This evil specific like only focusing on a subset and a sub group of people within Sports Channel And those comments like yes and no. I do believe that some sourcing going on no that. I don't believe that it's purposeful. I don't believe that genes are sitting in a room and deliberating saying okay. Let's not hire this black person or let's not Hire this woman just from the experience I had but human psychology wanted one we. We gravitate towards what we're comfortable with. And what we we have experienced and what's normal to us in what's our social group right. which is why h artist? And I think that AH specifically in front office is just when I've worked with front office. HR actually doesn't really touch a lot of fun offices which is extremely family problematic which that needs change in every single front office and that's kind of what happened. Dallas Mavericks Incident. So I do think if the right and opportunity comes along. Maybe but I think that that needs to change it needs to stop being looked at as a pipeline issue that we're kind of just like not out here because we are like were were. There are technical African Americans and era very technical women that that can do the job and it's not a coincidence got hired within a month to go work at. ESPN right like within three months of getting hired. I John Skipper asked me the former president of ESPN to meet with him in his office and he was super intrigued by my hiring process and forever grateful that meeting because he I was just I made it a point that H R purposely hired people that were competent but also people of color and diversity city that were competent and so just that was amazing for me like so. It's not he's like. It's not a coincidence that you hired quickly like that like I wanted it to be that way because it needs to be that way if every corporation of every front office had this mindset. I think we would definitely far better off your for people who didn't see beat Jalen comments. I'll just read a bit of his quote. This was something he told New Yorker back in June. He said you notice that when is a powerful job in sports. It's whether it is an owner whether it is a president whether it is a general manager whether it is coach usually in football and basketball sports that are pregnant merely dominated by black Americans. It's also so an opportunity to funnel people jobs analytics. That is by saying that I am smarter than you because the numbers back what I say and I am more red eye study more. I'm able to take these numbers and manipulate my point and so he was saying that players with experience ex players are not making it into analytics departments because their numbers backgrounds are Kinda trumping the experience when it comes to that kind of work and in follow up interview with NPR. He said a a Lotta Times. The numbers become a catalyst to say. Here's an opportunity. Oh and by the way since you know analytics you get pushed to the front of the line and if you look in the NBA and in many professional sports sports. There isn't a lot of diversity on those who get their position based on the fact that they were really good at crunching the numbers and doing analytics. which is in arguable? Obviously sleep if you look at in departments. There's not a lot of diversity as he said so. That sort of I don't WanNa say started a discussion but amplified data at discussion. That had been going on and brought some attention to that imbalance. So are you aware of programs initiatives that are out out there that are doing a good job or a better job of trying to increase the representation. Yeah so I. I'm on the board of one not got to plug here. But it's called the Sports Analytics Club program and it's it's a nonprofit that's essentially helping inner city high schools. This get students of color were undefeated within sports analytics on having them complete projects and just getting them really interested within stem and sport and and also another one for family amazing. They travel around the country. And kinda host these stem workshops. But they're like in basketball gyms which is amazing so programs like this. I think obviously it starts really early. But retaining retaining talent is super important like I think having the pipeline to to give them the resources is amazing. And I think that's a lot of people focus on but once someone's in front office once someone was in a corporation Russian and you there there. There's divers in there are kind of contributing to the organization. How do you keep them there? Right like because I if you are saying that like you said it's an arguable. It's not diverse once. You do have someone divers had you keep them there are. Are they lonely like is it just van a an art like are you giving them opportunities to be included in projects. Everything that you're doing as an organization like that that's super important and I want more resources to focused on retaining and just making sure that we kind of like our voices aren't lost essentially and that's kind of what I've breath notice throughout my entire career. Yeah so do you think that any of these sports leagues does a particularly good job at promoting this type of hiring. Bring it. You know I know baseball. Just because that's usually what we talk about. And they have started a diversity pipeline program diversity fellowship and we've talked about that in the show and you know there's an organization the Institute for Diversity and Ethics Sports that gives Sports Leagues and baseball a report card every for year on gender hiring and racial hiring and I don't know exactly how they determine that I know. MLP's grades used to be terrible and now are slightly the less terrible. I think that got an a minus for racial hiring see for gender hiring in the most recent report so there serve our efforts to change there but I guess that basketball has probably done a better job of that than baseball has the NBA. And you know. Maybe they're more people in positions of power in the NBA who are diverse than than baseball. Certainly yeah I think so. I actually recently gave talk at facebook and it was an analytics conference and hey people were super interested that were there and then and be like. Oh that's that's like really technical right. It's like you're doing analytics but it's also sports right. So I whenever I was there eric kind of had this screen on my slide. Show that kind of had numbers of women in the Front Office for all the different leaks. Yes of course the NBA is the leader when it comes to hiring. Both gender minorities racial minorities. But there's still so so much work to do because I wanted. I wanted to go into them. Yeah and I wanted to work with the front office and work with a team but even I hadn't had my own in just my own experience. Even I had to kind of go through all those hoops that I mentioned earlier so even though it is the best like still the fact that that's the best. This is kind of sad right like there's so much work that essentially needs to be done and I think it's done through. Hr like having HR embedded in different offices like that needs to happen like it. Can't it can't be separate anymore. Like I remember when I was working with the heat down in order like like front office one side business office other side and it was so interesting. no-one commute like you don't communicate with the front office. So obviously I think that's changed a little bit but that shouldn't be the norm anymore like HR and business needs to be plugged right in the front office. Because even though you're running the team even though you're talking to the athletes even though you're focusing on super important personnel to get the business running I mean you're still you still have to follow the rules and you still have to can focus on all the things die or Super Boorda's what we appreciate Shit. You're coming on and sharing your experience I wish you luck with your ongoing ventures and you can find tiffany on twitter at tiff and in cal- you can also find her website at tiffany. Kelly DOT Co.. She does speaking engagements who would like to have her. Come talk to your organization. And so thank you very much for your time. Tiffany van alright. Thanks to Sherry in Tiffany for sharing their experiences. I've linked to some of the programs initiatives that we discussed on the show page at Fan Graphs and in our facebook group. It's obviously important. That people not be bartered discouraged from doing things that they wanna do that. Also just make sense that you would i WanNa have a diverse group of analysts because increased diversity and demographics may lead to increase diversity in thought and a little less group. Think not to mention the fact that since historically speaking and teams of tended to hire interns. Don't make much money or any money. which really restricts the pool of potential applicants to a- limited socioeconomic groups that can actually afford to do those jobs? You're really narrowing the sample of people who can potentially work for you. Fortunately that is changing. But it's taken too long. This is the last episode in our multi-sports sabermetrics exchanged series. But it seems like a lot of you have liked it learned from it so maybe we'll bring it back during the holidays next year in these slow Newsweek's for baseball when people are traveling and UNBE vacation and we're looking for things to pre record. We covered a lot of the most popular sports in the world in this initial run but there are many more we could get into in the future could talk about other racing exports combat sports curling Lacrosse Roller Derby Australian rules football. Some of the other Olympic sports even board games card games are individual. Video Games If there's a sport with interesting analytics that you'd like to hear US talk about in the future. Please let us know as we've worked our way through these dozen different non baseball sports some things have stood up to me some common themes one thing. There's no stopping sabermetrics. Once it starts you can't put the analytical genie back in the bottle that's not to say that they did. Analysis is is the only way to succeed in sports. But if you're using those tools in your competitors aren't you're going to have an advantage. We started the series off with football. And you can hear what I'm talking about with football just this week. Were Dave gettleman the New York giants. GM WHO's been anti analytics in the past and called the analytically driven idea. That running backs are less valuable than previously previously believed a crock and he said if that makes me a hater of analytics because the analytic people say you can plug and play. Whoever you want running back you can't if that's the reasoning that I've become a doddering old fool that hates analytics that's okay et Cetera? Well now cattlemen's job is in jeopardy. So He's saying I'M GONNA learn from my mistakes is saying we hired for computer folks software that he recently met with a big analytics guy. Now Okay someone who's describing analyst says computer folks maybe not actually going to changes inches ways but the point is that he now at least has to pay lip service and if he doesn't change his ways than the giants will probably find someone else. We're actually means what he says. There's just no way hey to be anti analytics anymore. And keep your job. And of course as tracking information has become common the lines between what we used to think of as statistical testicle information and scouting information have really blurred and those things have become almost indistinguishable so it really doesn't go backward. Once the stuff starts to break into a sport you can kinda the forecast where it's GonNa go from there and that's not necessarily a bad thing from a spectator perspective as we've seen it really varies by sport in baseball arguably it has been a negative in some some ways maybe been a net negative but another sports. It hasn't hurt the entertainment value. Maybe it's even improved it in some cases. I think we've seen the importance of public data. You can't have a a thriving in local communities surrounding sport unless the data is out there and so we've seen in sport after sport. How in the early stages of these movements people really had to put some sweat sweat in and do the grunt work to gather this data themselves and over time it has become more available but not in every sport in some sports at still really restricted to teams and certain data providers and so those sports may have people working for teams who can slice and dice that data but not so much out here in the public sphere and when there are fewer people doing this work in the public sphere that leads to fewer qualified? People can really move into a role with the team and help right away and just spot check in quality check uncovered by seizing the data. That's an ongoing concern in baseball. And other sports who will have access to this information and will there be a gap between private and public analysts. I think we've also heard over and over about the importance of moneyball. We know what impact it had in baseball but in baseball there was already a sabermetrics movement. Under way I think moneyball certainly help accelerate it but it was proceeding along that path already in other sports though money Paul really helped jump start things because people looked at Michael Lewis wrote about. And what billy bean and the as were doing and thought can we apply this to our sport and it really just reduce some of the resistance because if it had already worked in one sport and produced the best selling book than there was less resistance to it. People wanted to jump on the bandwagon instead of circling wagons in preventing it from happening. But you still do see the same clashes in the same backlash in the same arguments playing out of it over and over again but if you've been following baseball you kind. China know where they're going to go and where they'll end which is in greater acceptance. That said there's still a lot of uncertainty still out of concerns about tracking data and biometric data and wearables and privacy and how much is too much and whether it becomes invasive at a certain point I think more and more all sports are really grappling with what Travis such I wrote about in baseball spell the MVP machine which is okay there. Some baseline level of acceptance of analytics. There's some rich data out there. Teams or pros are employing people to analyze that data produce insights but then the key becomes translating it to the field to the court to the pitch and figuring out how to get players to internalize apply that information formation. And how to get it in the hands of coaches who will actually use it otherwise. They're sort of a bottleneck preventing that information from actually being useful so clearly a lot of parallels here even the sports we discussed according to our experts ranged from a two to a nine on the one to ten ease of analysis scale in. I think it is helpful to have people from each of these fields. Let's talk to each other because there are a lot of concepts that extend across sports and some statistical frameworks that can be re purposed and concepts that have some universal value. So again thank thank you to all of our guests and thanks to all of you listening. It's easy to enjoy sports without looking at them through an analytical Lens but there can be something compelling about trying to solve them or understand send them in a new way and it is something that has enriched my enjoyment of sports. It's sort of a puzzle that we can all try to tackle while we're marveling at the athletic feats that we know. We could never never recreate before I leave. You a follow up to a follow up on the show to yesterday's episode. I brought up the idea of the most famous non walk-off non milestone homeowner's I in history. which is something that's Millard? Make Rally and I talked about a couple of episodes ago. We were trying to come up with examples of home runs that fit those conditions and not coming up with a lot off the top of our our heads of course as I mentioned on the last episode. bucky dense homerun is a very famous non walk-off non milestone homer and James Gannon another one of our patriots supporters wrote in to suggest a few others. George Brett's Pine Tar Game Homerun Ted Williams's Homerun in his last at Bat. Reggie Jackson's third home run in game. Six of the nineteen seventy seven unserious and Derek. JETER's Jeffrey Mayor Assisted Homerun over. Tony Dress goes outstretched glove and came one of the nineteen ninety six August suggestions. Thank you James and one. Last last thing from the Scott Boris verbal rations department. I was reading an article at the athletic by Richard. Dyke and Daniel Kaplan and Bill Shea Headline Twenty twenty predictions thoughts from sports industry figures. This was just surveying a lot of prominent sports people commissioners and executives and analysts and network presidents and so on about what will happen in their respective sports in twenty twenty and every entry but one here is just written in regular language people. Writing in complete sentences says mostly pretty bland language just business like professional. The one exception is of course Scott Boris. Everyone's favourite inscrutable super agent. And he actually leads off if the article. So here's what Scott. Boris Rights Twenty Twenty. It's the beginning of a new decade. The MLB roaring twenties dot dot dot and he has a bullet point list of five things. That will happen. A jazzy new. CBA will play new tunes. Signed bootleggers will be fined and suspended signed bootleggers. That's hyphenated as in sign. steelers Taylor's three. Reliever prohibitions will be enforced for flappers will crowd the clevelander in Miami and double attendants five. The great luxury tax depression will occur. Kerr and then he closes with it's deja roaring all over again deja roaring. That's hyphenated too. So he's really embracing the roaring twenties theme here trying in a tie this into jazz and bootleggers in prohibition and flappers and the Great Depression. No one asked for this one. They just wanted some predictions funds for what will happen in two thousand twenty everyone else obliged in completely predictable way. And here's Scott. Boris coming up with catchphrases. And what he thinks is witty wordplay and you can kind of understand what he's going for but you don't really understand why he's going for it and I scroll down to the comments just to see if anyone else had remarked upon upon Boris's response here. The very first comment says for baseball all you have is some nonsensical drivel from Scott. Boris deeply disappointed expected much. More from view that has one hundred forty seven likes someone else says I was going to say the same. Another person says that guy needs to put the pipe down someone else and it led this piece. What a waste? Seven House calls it under trash by Boris. Another person asks anyone care to translate Boris's Word Salad another notes as others had previously written Boris's comments Mentzer a waste of time. It goes on anyway. This is one of the weirdest examples of Scott. Boris torturing the English language that I've ever come across I get the metaphors and the analogies allergies. He's trying to get people talking tweeting fine but here he is given a platform. The spotlight is on him and many other prominent people from the sports world and he just fully embraces races. This bit of about the twenty twenties being like the roaring twenty s in baseball or is just can't help but be himself all right. That will do it for today and for this week. Thanks again for listening. You can't support. The cod cast on Patriot by going to patriot. Dot Com slash effectively wild to the following five listeners have already signed up and pledge some some of the amount to help keep the podcast going and get themselves access to some perks Matt. Fogelson Chad Post. Then you'll siegler his shot Menon and Sarah Lucy. Thanks to all of you. You can join our or facebook group at FACEBOOK DOT com slash group session wild. You can rate review and subscribe to effectively wild on itunes other podcasts platforms. Keep your questions and comments Burmese for me and MEG. and Sam coming the email at podcast dot com or via the Jan messaging system if you are already supporter thanks Higgins for his editing assistance. And we'll be back to business as usual next week. Have a wonderful weekend and we will talk to you soon the real.

baseball Carnegie Mellon Sabermetrics David Smith NBA ESPN Pittsburgh Gary Huckabee GM Tiffany Kelly US Sherry Nichols Hi Sherry Tennessee Guy Mike Mlb Soccer League
What Was The Last Dance?

Slate's Hang Up and Listen

1:15:26 hr | 8 months ago

What Was The Last Dance?

"The following podcasts contains explicit language people who are listening for the first time my here bad word to Hi Josh Levin Slates National Editor and the author of the Queen. This is hang up and listen for the week of May Eighteenth. Two Thousand Twenty on this week. We're going to do our last ride with the last dance. Assessing the final two episodes the documentary and the series as a whole. We'll also be joined by broadcaster. I ego we'll speak with us about the challenge of Calling Games remotely. Finally we'll talk about a new. Nfl proposal would give teams better draft picks if they hired minority head coaches and general managers. Hello from Washington C. Home of your Washington Wizards an NBA team that exists just throwing that out there also in DC is friend colleague Documentary Aficionado. Stephan fats US author of the Book Word. Freak and a few seconds of panic. Hello Stephan I hear that Michael Jordan guy played for the Washington Wizards dirty vicious rumor. Also with US Samantha and for winning on the track in the crossfire gem and a little game that we call life slade staff writer. Slow-burn host Joel Anderson schedule. Hey Good morning. I'm not the loser. That Michael Jordan thinks this leave it at that. Think no better way. To and our pre show after ten hours an untold number of cigars glasses of Scotch and perceived. Ba last dance at waltzed offspring on Sunday night but Michael Jordan and the Chicago Bulls winning their sixth and final championship. Although there was a notable segment on the murder of Steve Kerr's father in Beirut the last twenty percent of ESPN's documentary series mostly focused on basketball with an emphasis on the Bulls battles with the Indiana Pacers and the Utah Jazz towards the end of the series owner. Jerry Reinsdorf gave his explanation for this series of central mystery. Why break up a team? That had just wanted all for the third straight time. Reinsdorf said that Scottie. Pippin Denis Rodman Ron Harper Steve Kerr were too old and expensive and bringing them all back for a run at eighty seventh title would have been suicidal Jordan. Watching reinsdorf on an IPAD says that this is rubbish that everyone should have had the opportunity to come back and do it all over again and in the documentary we hear this exchange so is it then SAS fine to leave at your no or is it madden is maddening. Because I felt like we could one seven. I really believe that we may not have but bad just not able to try S S. Something that I just can't except for whatever reason I just can't accept it so this is where we leave Michael Jordan Joel. He's unable and unwilling to accept the storybook ending that he wrote by sticking that jumper over Brian. Russell in Utah He doesn't acknowledge that he did write a new less story. Bookish ending for himself in Washington. Dc But he's also I think justifiably annoyed that the Bulls Dynasty ended the way that it did. Yeah the ending to me. In many ways undermined the premise. That Jerry Krause was villain here in confirmed the Jerry. Reinsdorf held a lot of the cards. Here it is important to acknowledge that though the idea that it would have been suicidal. Bring Back Dennis. Rodman Scottie. Pippen Kerr and Luc. Longley among others seems ridiculous. But it's not necessarily wrong. If you consider the fact that Scotty and Dennis were significantly diminished the next year and the lockout shortened season. Michael Jordan sliced his finger. Walk cutting a cigar that offseason and would have missed at least a few months and it wasn't even clear that Scotty and some of those other guys wanted to make the kind of sacrifice that would have been necessary to return for another year. So although reinsdorf is technically right and that the Bulls probably would not have won a championship or they would not have been the same team that they had been the year before he didn't want to pay for it and he allowed Jerry. Krause sort of stand in the breach there and take all of this abuse. It seems like he was pulling the strings behind the scenes all the time. Yeah that seems like a good assessment. Joel I mean did REINSDORF Call Phil Jackson and ask him to come back because he had second thoughts and wanted to overrule Jerry. Krause says did Phil Jackson. I WanNa take a break. It wouldn't be fair to Jerry Krause to overrule him. That seems plausible as well. I mean the part that is most ridiculous here involves Jordan and Jordan's belief that if he and he alone had told Scottie. Pippen Steve Kerr and Dennis Rodman and Ron Harper. That they should come back for one more go round a diminished salaries. They would have been willing to do that. And that's not clear to us because nobody else has asked in the documentary whether they would have been willing to do that maybe they were. This was enough for them. You know they've one three or six or some number in between and they were ready to go play somewhere else and not get yelled at all the time as a tourist grant or Luc Longley or somebody else said in a previous episode. Well Scotty is the interesting question. There I think Jordan we do hear from Jordan that everybody except Scotty definitely would have agreed to do it which I think is probably true and then he sort of kind of waves away the scotty question. It's like yeah that would have been an issue but if everybody was coming back then Scotty wouldn't have missed out on that. We don't hear what Scottie Pippen's answer to that as we don't know if he was asked and didn't answer we don't know if he was asked and answered and they didn't put it in the documentary. Which would have been aware choice? Or we don't know if he wasn't asked but that was a huge missing piece that we didn't hear from Scotty Pippin on that question and you know we've lingered a lot on the stuff that we don't hear and that we don't see in this documentary the fact that Jordan's tenure with the wizards wasn't even mentioned in the onscreen text crawl at the end was weird but the biggest mission to me. You know if we're going to just say all right. We'll take documentary on. Its own terms. These last two were on about basketball. Mostly you know. Seemed like they were edited. More quickly Because they they didn't have much time to finish these these last two. But you know the person we didn't hear from such an interesting character. Here is Brian Russell. Who Jordan says in his hall of fame speech you know. He tells the story that he tells here about how Brian Russell like talk shit to him during the baseball year. During a pickup game. And saying you know you quit because you know I could lock you down on defense and this was another of the slights that drove Jordan. I put him on my list. Good but Brian. Russell is a guy who had to work really hard to get into the NBA. He was a guy who had his moments in those NBA finals series. But he was also somebody that he was the guy who you know doubled off of Jordan till like double team Scottie. Pippen to allow Jordan to make like a game. Winning three one of his final series Jordan made two game winning shots over him. And we don't hear from him and he's a you know his perspective on this in his journey. Here I think are extremely interesting and probably would be more revelatory than anything we hear from Jordan. What's what's interesting to think about here. And of course. It doesn't come up in this documentary. Is that Baron? Russell played with Michael Jordan in his last year. With the wizards and so. I don't know that has anything to do with why we didn't hear him here if they did not interview him at all but it is worth noting that he had a relationship with Michael Jordan. That went past that. You know that time with the Bulls. He got the experience Michael Jordan in the locker room in see the kind of do that. He was and dealt with a day to day basis and all of a sudden we. We don't hear from him even though he plays this pivotal role in making machine of Michael Jordan. So I can think of a lot of reasons why you can hear him. I'm sure they wanted to talk to him and he just didn't WanNa talk. I mean that seems like that like explanation but it's it would have been nice to hear from him Absolutely should we talk about the pizza? Yeah let's talk about the well. This is all going back to the myth making machine around the Jordan brand right like first of all. Why would you ever eat anything? Brought to your house by five people at once. Like it's not clear WHO's deliver? Who like why were there? Five people necessary to bring a pizza to your room Joe. I think we need to set the context here for a no we do. We do we right. So this is the nine thousand nine hundred. Ninety seven finals against Utah the Bulls are in Utah and before game. Five Jordan is hungry late at night. He's with his guys in his room and they have apparently Decem and not had dinner with him for some reason and Jordan says I'm hungry and so his people order him a pizza. That's the setup. That's the setup. Well I mean it sounds like you're the one buying into the myth making here like the documentary wants you to believe that somehow sketchy that five people are delivering the pizza to him But the director in an interview after this episode aired was like. I don't believe that Michael Jordan was poisoned and then seemed like unable or unwilling to answer the question of like. Why did you put something in the? Why did you insinuate something and the documentary that you don't believe like you're left with your left to believe the Michael Jordan was poised. Yeah RIGHT THE PEOPLE OF UTAH. Yes and that's also that how food poisoning works like you don't like normally takes like twenty four hours before something like that really starts to bubble. I mean maybe Michael Know. Michael Jordan has a body that is unique to Oliver so maybe poisoning metabolize based pizzas and four hours or less right the part of the documentary interview that Jason here did with Jalen rose and Jacoby on ESPN. That was very jordan-esque. Is that in describing the scene? The director says that he told him that the pizza arrives. Jordan doesn't want anyone else to eat any of it so he spits on the pizza to reserve it for himself. This is weird behavior. He treated everybody like Horace Grant. Then you WANNA eat horace grant allow horace. Grant wasn't allowed to eat if I didn't think he should eat and guess. This rule applies to all of his friends friends and quotes. Yeah it's just is Georgia's an exceedingly weird dude and we don't see in this one of the problems with the documentary and I'm GonNa say some nice things about it eventually but we had twenty two years to sort of really investigate. The claim here right that the flu game. This is something that happened and it was the flu in quotes. And we're left with the same mythology the same like you know insinuation. That Michael Jordan overcame an obstacle placed in his way. Not that this is something that he did to himself which you know he was sick because it's something that he may have done to himself for that he just a normal human got sick before a game that no this is yet another brick in the foundation. That Michael Jordan was constantly overcoming things that were placed in his way. And that just said this is the story. This is the story that Michael Jordan has tells himself about the flu game. The flu is to human. The flu is normal. I got sick. I don't know how but I got sick. So he has created a story that is more dramatic. And More self-centered the fans of Utah wanted a poison. Me AND FIVE. Jude's working at a pizza shop. Got An order. Knew it was a delivered to my room knowing that I was the only one that was going to eat it and then I got sick and went out and torched Utah the next night. One of the five delivery people at a poison tipped umbrella suspicious. He was driving batmobile to. Well you guys you guys said a couple weeks ago. I think I questioned at at the time. But you're right all acknowledge that this documentary was designed to give Jordan the last word on every topic very true accurate conservation. And that's all the absence of all the wizards stuff is one part of it. The way that the director acknowledges not believing certain things that are said but not including interviews or material that might undercut it. It's pretty damning right. I mean it's not journalistic It's not what you would do if the thing that you care about. Most is presenting an accurate and truthful picture of of what happened so You know the other thing. That's like Super Weird and the last episode of the series is that we learned that Michael Jordan has children right. Jeffrey Marcus and Jasmine Jordan. Make on camera appearances where they say nothing interesting. They're just like Oh yeah we didn't like Utah and one is left to conclude since we're just kind of talking about insinuations here that they were added at the end because people noticed that they weren't in the documentary. Like that's the only explanation that makes sense. That Jordan Jordan has a family. Let's let's include that. Yeah I mean there wasn't really a place for them here. I mean I don't. I don't think we needed Jordan's kids to understand that Playing in Salt Lake City was really difficult. You know. I don't know what they had to add there but you know it. Does you know rebutting the criticism that there were no family members. There there Michael Jordan was a you know this lone wolf. They had no family. I think misunderstands the criticism in rebutting. Yeah Right Right. I do want to say this because I do think that the final two episodes where real payoff of the documentary and that the behind the scenes footage was supposedly. The you know th the foundation of this. That's what everybody wanted to see. And this is how this whole project happened. Well we finally got to see it right. We finally got to see Dennis. Rodman running away from the media after skipping out for wrestling do in w a WCW wrestling event. We get to see Phil Gathering at the team to tell them. The dentist dishonored them. We get to see my you mind telling Larry Bird. Hey Bitch fuck you you know. We get a lot of that stuff. And that's the stuff that I think that people wanted to see because that was that was what it was building. Oh these behind the scenes footage of Jordan's last year will here. It is and I'm glad we got to see it. You know so. I was fascinated by the documentary all the way throughout inspite of the criticisms we have but it was this sort of stuff seeing Michael Jordan dancing to Kenny. Lattimore rooms is a sort of stuff that you wanted to see. You hope that you would see when we got started on this five weeks ago. Yeah and the footage that I felt encapsulated. The entire documentary was after they win the last game in one thousand nine hundred ninety eight and Jordan walks into the locker room a lot of the players already there because he's been doing interviews or whatever and the greetings he got worse. Oh half hearted that it was really jarring to me and the after party scenes were also really weird. Jordan feels very isolated. It doesn't feel like his teammates. Once they get off. The court are particularly interested in sharing this moment with him or even look terribly excited about what they've just accomplished. Think you might be projecting a little bit there. Players seemed pretty happy to Miami and especially on the court. I don't know man. It was a lot of sort of half ask handslaps walking around the room. I will say this. I've been on a thirty for thirty bins in the last month. Or so. So revisited. The documentaries on Magic Johnson Dennis Rodman and the bad boys among others in what I did notice by comparison that those bulls celebration seemed a lot more subdued in stilted after that initial burst of euphoria. Right like everybody gets excited on the court. There is the burst of euphoria of euphoria. But then you see in these other documentaries Magic Johnson. You know hardly hugging people and porn champagne on each other. And it's like everybody is like very happy there's a lot of warmth in a camaraderie. I didn't see that in any of these bull celebrations not in one thousand nine hundred eighty eight. Yes certainly not in nineteen ninety eight. Maybe that's just the mission of editing or whatever. Maybe that's just an editing choice and we didn't get to see that but I didn't get the same feelings of warmth from those championships. In comparison to the other ones that we saw with other superstars right. What about the warm exchange between Jordan and Leonardo Dicaprio DECAPA was famous then on second thought the the lack of warmth that I'm talking about was after they beat the Pacers before he tells bird? Fuck you so. I guess it was only the Eastern Conference finals and it was only game. Seven but yeah. They didn't look very excited. Well there was the sense that this was a relief that there's a lot of pressure and it was a huge burden on them the whole season. So that's fair enough. I mean I think the thing that was really revolutionary to me and back to what I said an introduction is that after Jordan goes through his whole spiel on How was unfair and unjust that they weren't given a chance to when seven title Phil Jackson like. Yeah it was time to end. It was a good team. It's time to go. We're we're ready. That have been done. And you know Phil Phil. Jackson has his own problems. Certainly not a perfect guy but that does I think in very short form. Encapsulate the difference between those men and also just between Jordan and other people who are more I guess I'm motionlessly available or like not stunted is just the idea that like you should be grateful for the good things that happen to you and your life and hold on to those and he had a really really great. Ron May the one of the best rounds ever But he just really hangs on to everything that was taken from him that he was deprived of that. He was denied that other people tried to stop him. And you know maybe that propels you to greatness. Maybe you think that propels you to greatness but it clearly makes you angry and unhappy and not content with you know accomplishments. That are extraordinary. And that's just a really said disconnect it is and it that ultimately is one of the things that undermines the documentary Gotham Chopra director who Did the coast the Kobe. Bryant documentary stuff. There was A. He's quoted in a piece in the Washington Post Ben Strauss about the vanity project. Nature of the last dance and Chopra says about working with Kobe. It turned into a form of therapy creative ownership over something is also agency over his own story and that makes a big difference whether it's Kobe Jordan or anyone else and while that is absolutely true. What's revealed here is that that is creatively powerful. If the subject is thoughtful and introspective if the subject is willing to sort of reconsider his the kiss career arc. Kobe was willing to do that. And Jordan obviously was not or wasn't able to to build off that point in these last two episodes. We get to see Steve Kerr who is like a real delight You know that I could do without some of the self-deprecation okay. Ucla didn't want you. But you still managed to get into Arizona. You're you're pretty good Steve. But at the end he gives up the game all of this when he says about Michael Jordan. We saw him as a bully right and he had said earlier. In the documentary it was very difficult to reach him emotionally. And so I just got the sense that as we come to the end here that it was really unfulfilling for all of these people. Just don't get the sense then. Being a champion was fulfilling or a pursuit that it's worth pursuing because it alienated Michael Jordan from everybody in his life you know it seems like and I think about even Scottie Pippen Scottie. Pippen sacrifices bodies sacrifice money for the greater glory of the Chicago Bulls and Michael Jordan and Michael Jordan never even fucking said like. I never saw him. Come to the to the Defensive Scottie. Pippen and say hey man that guy laid it all on the line for me after that game six in Utah it was all about. Jordan's heroics not about Scotty fighting through a back injury that would set most other people down and I just think sort of encapsulates everything that we saw coming with Jordan in this documentary that it's all about him in his greater glory and everybody else was there to serve to help him and if they felt the way they felt that's how they felt. But Michael Jordan care all right last dance. Thank you for all the content. We appreciate it. The Bundesliga returned over the weekend and bt sport in the UK was there to cover every touch and by there. I don't mean in the families stadiums in Dortmund and Berlin but rather in the homes of producers directors and commentators scattered across Britain. That's certainly going to be the setup. When live sports return to America play by play and color brought to you not from Wrigley Field or the staple center but from ESPN and NBC studio booths in Connecticut or from their home offices or home offices of their wives which is from our next guest joins us? He is Eagle who calls the NFL for CBS the NBA for TNT and much much more. Welcome back to the show. I am great to be with. You guys This is not necessarily the way that I would like to fill airtime with you. But it's still something at least connected to normalcy in some way that we can talk about sports as I'm sure you know the very first live sports on the radio on K. D. K. And Pittsburgh in one thousand nine hundred ninety. One was based off of reports. Telephoned into announcers Ronald Reagan. And even more famous play by play guys did it. Converting phone calls and teletype messages into gripping game narratives. I'm guessing you're not quite old enough to have called the game off them but remote broadcasts have been pretty normal before Kovin even for big events like the Olympics World Cops College Football. Give us a little context on how often you've called the game this way. And under what circumstances yeah so for me. Obviously I've been more of the traditional broadcaster from the start of my career but I have received some assignments that were a bit unconventional and was asked ahead of time. Are you comfortable this? Nba Games? Sometimes you're not going to be in the same exact venue as the actual event. I got hired by the NBA to call the NBA finals. The Miami Heat in the San Antonio Spurs two thousand thirteen and I did it from a studio in Beautiful Secaucus New Jersey and did every moment of every game of that series off of the large screen. My broadcast was Jim Spin Arkell. We had a little production meeting before we went ahead and did our games and tried to treat it as normal as usual but not being at the game means that you're doing a more general call a you're not picking up the nuances. You're not feeling the energy from the crowd and often you had to supply your own energy now. The difference there you were getting ambient noise back into your headset. So there was a little bit of the Crescendo. That would build from an audience but your own personal energy you had to generate yourself and the whole goal for an announcer is to convey the emotion and drama of an event. And you can still do that through your voice. But there's no doubt there will be an adjustment period if there are no fans in the stands and then decisions will have to be made in regards to the noise that is going to accompany the event itself. Will they pump in crowd noise? A will they see that as almost like a laugh? Track like you would get on a Sitcom and it's an interesting analogy because seinfeld which was one of the great sitcoms wall time laugh track. It worked it played curb your enthusiasm which I enjoyed equally. If not more at times and Seinfeld no laugh track and it played it worked but a completely different viewing experience. I just real quick for a second. You called the Ray Allen three from a remote studio correct. Oh my gosh what. How did that I mean like you said I mean that must have felt weird? Did you feel the emotion of that moment from a remote studio? I did because everything had been building in that game and given that was not game one. That was game six so I had some experience in how to handle the ups and downs of broadcasting from remote location. It wasn't the first time that I had done it. In fact I did the world basketball championships with bill raftery in a studio in secaucus although the Games were being played in Barcelona getting a tap of the entire first game throughout your in Barcelona. Now I'm in Secaucus that's when people texted you. They wouldn't say birth alone. They would say barstool people in particular foot t h in there during Barcelona. Yeah it it was a little odd because people just assume you're there I never once said or try to convey the idea that I was at the event but I think there's just a general connection that people make if your covering the event the assumption is. Oh he must be there well. Let's listen to a clip of you calling that rail and Buzzer beater and the two thousand thirteen finals. Rebound Bosh got it clears Alan fire drills ninety seconds to go so it's a great call in the question that I had for you. I N as one the you kind of got to in your first answer. Which is how much of this is real. And how much of it as performance you know we know you know you're dripping with sincerity and everything that you do but how much of that irregular game and in a remote game are you kind of acting. Are you trying to convey emotion? And just that. Maybe isn't isn't there but you want the viewer at home said feel excited. It's a fantastic question and probably does not get talked about nearly enough when we discuss sports casting. In general I think as you evolve in your career you begin to figure out what energy level is required for the event that you're calling and to say that exactly the same for every event that I do. There's a consistency in my approach. There certainly a consistency in my preparation but the job requires the marriage preparation and performance so my preparation which I take a lot of pride in in getting ready for any event. Sometimes I'm calling five to six games in a week and it varies from a television football game to a football game on the radio to NBA Games local to NBA Games. National to a college basketball. It could be in one week so to say that I'm going to be exactly the same for every. Single event is not a fair statement of course There's going to be a variance and in how I approach it. How I cover it and how I use my voice if you're doing a game where the home team is on a flurry. Football basketball doesn't matter. The crowd is going to play a much larger role. And you're going to have to push your voice in order to break through with the crowd and create this blend where your voice is connecting with the crowd if the same exact thing is happening with the visiting team and the crowd is playing no role. And you're now going at a nine or a ten with your vocals. It's not gonNA come across the same way because you don't have the backup there so there is performance involved in this job and of course when you've got a great highlight in the NBA. When Moore of Albert said Hey spectacular move by Michael Jordan? Of course? He happened to pick the right word in the right moment and he punched it in the exact perfect way and he also recognized that in that moment it was probably GonNa live on for a long time. If you have the right call and the right words in the right moment it can elevate that moment the issue here with remote games there. There are multiple ones. I mean one is something you mentioned a few seconds ago which preparation you're not in the arena. You know you might not be doing the same kinds of interviews before a game with athletes with with coaches. You know your NFL game where you get to sit down with a members of the staff and talk to players the days before. So you're you might be losing something of the human connection in terms of what you're able to relate and that's just one thing right oh no doubt about it now. A whiz Zun becoming such a big part of our lives. I could easily see that transitioning to our new normal in covering sports where you will get the players that you asked for on an NFL Sunday but the interview will now take place via laptops and your hope is. You can still cultivate some information that can be used over the course of your broadcast but the human connection certainly is going to be affected. There's going to be an adjustment period. Here there's no doubt about it. The next part of the equation will be the sterile nature in the conditions. That you're working whether you are on site. Let's say the NFL makes the decision? They deem the announcers -sential but no fans in the stands. You're in your broadcast booth. You're in your typical setup yet. The game does not have the feel that had during normal conditions. And now it's up to you to generate the energy or to gauge. What's required you? The one thing that I would say in regards to the performance aspect that we were discussing it still has to be authentic. If it's not coming from a real place listeners viewers. They sniff it up. They know something doesn't fit which doesn't belong in. Why that highlight didn't deserve that. Bega call or that highlight was actually better than the call that you provided that in the moment split-second when you have to make those decisions broadcaster you've got to determine whether or not your voice is matching the action or are you underplaying overselling. All of those things are done in a millisecond and now when you don't have a crowd to help you figure all of that out that that's going to be based more on your gut instincts Bryan curtis story for the ringer about. This was great and he did a really good job of kind of demystifying. How guys like you call games in an arena stadium versus at home and I was wondering if you could walk us through that like an NFL game. You might actually be watching a lot of the game on the Monitor from You know the six level or whatever. So can you just kind of walk through football and basketball and What some of the kind of advantages and disadvantages are calling it and the stadium versus remote away. My play by play career started. I began in radio so when I started with the nets. Nineteen Ninety four ninety five. That was all. I knew I had no television experience whatsoever at a blank canvas and I was told by anyone that was an expert in the field. You are the conductor. You're in charge. What you see is now the picture that you're going to paint for the listener. That's driving in their car. That's doing some gardening in the backyard. That string of beer on the deck. Whatever it might be so when it's put in those terms it's fairly easy to understand. Okay I'm going to paint the picture. I transitioned to television the very next year and it was a whole new world it was more of an analyst medium so that was the first thing that struck me. I was working with Bill. Raftery who is a brilliant guy and what you see is what you get and a lot of times. I was getting out of his way but I also realized that the producer the director. They were steering the ship more than I was as the play by play announcer football. I got the jets. Radio job in nineteen ninety-seven same situation as three years earlier. Paint the picture. The next year I get the CBS job covering the NFL. And I'm doing TV now with some experience behind me at the local level so the transition wasn't as big elite and to be honest with you. The transition wasn't that big league for me from ninety four to ninety five because I hadn't really developed any habits. It was still very new so in a way it probably benefited me. That I hadn't done radio for fifteen years in a sudden now. I had to change what I was looking for. And where my focus was concentrated on basically when I got to the television side of things. I realized that I needed to talk to pictures. This is the essence of what we're doing if fans can't see what. I'm talking about Ben. There's a disconnect and you have to get on the same page as you're producer and director and you have to use that talk back button that goes directly into the truck if you see something. They're not seeing alert them so they can find it and now you're in concert with one another and you're working together as opposed to me doing a separate broadcast from the truck so for NBA game for an NFL game. There is such a collaborative process in covering the event and that part is going to be a little different. I can no longer be the eyes and ears if I'm seems develop because I'm just getting what they're getting. I'm getting one screen now. Maybe there could be some advanced setups where we have multiple looks where you can see. Eyeso- monitors which we might have on a normal television broadcast. The analyst is peaking at a different monitor. That's not on television. Not Our program on her but an eyesore monitor and noticed something and tells the producer director. Hey get a shot this for keep an eye on that for this play because they see it developed we might be a bit more limited because we just don't have the same kinds of options that we would normally have under our usual show the reason that there's been more remote coverage as that covering live sports on location is really expensive. And there's a shit ton of live sports available to be broadcast and you practically networks and other producers can't send crews to cover every game. The goal of the announcer of course is to make us not realize that we're missing anything and my question. Is I guess the two questions here one is. Are we missing something by not having your is your physical is in your physical emotion in the stadium or arena or on the field? And do you worry where we are now that this will be a convenient way for networks and other sports producers to say? Hey we can really cut costs by remote broadcasting more than we have in the past. Yeah I four yes You are missing something. If the announcers and the producers and director are not onsite. You're missing part of the feel that comes with covering an event and not just doing the nuts and bolts. And telling you exactly what you're seeing. There is still something to being there in person and experiencing it and being able to convey it with the last dance. Bob Costas stepped in for that final run for Michael Jordan as the play by play announcer and really did an excellent job. Bob is a tremendous journalist and understands the medium but the interesting part for me is looking back on that final edition. He was there and had the right words and the right tone and it lives all these years later. He chose the exact narratives that we needed. That helped tell that story. There will be a disconnect. If you're not there you're not going to have the same vibe. There's just no way. There's no way to recreate that. There is no way to simulate that. Will it be passable? Yes it will be passable and for most people right now given the circumstances they would take it in a heartbeat and I get it a hundred percent get it. We just want something right now but big picture. Long-term no the product would suffer and look some companies have already done it. They've done it without telling anyone that they have a remote production. They may have the announcers on site but the producer and director are back in a studio somewhere. They're not on site. And there are some cases. Where the announcers are not on site and they don't necessarily tell you that when the broadcast starts soccer as we know very common that's probably to me the most common sport of all of them that there are matches happening all over the world and there are two guys in Studio in Fort Lauderdale Florida calling them. Lots of them but I think people will accept what the new normal is shorter long term. I think there would be an issue if we don't get back to the standard in which we've grown accustomed to. I think I've got one question for you. Since you brought it up about the last dance. I know that you did a show with Phil Jackson and Radio. Weekly radio show with Phil Jackson. So can you just real briefly? Tell us about I. Were you in the same room with Phil Jackson when you were doing these enter. How appropriate is this question at this moment? No I was not really. I was with him. One time when the Lakers came into play the knicks that was the only time he was available to come into the studios at serious and that was the only time we did the show looking at one another and every other show that we did for that season he was somewhere else. Sometimes in a hotel room sometimes at the practice facility Sometimes in a remote location that he did not devote Phil Jackson. I did a show for an entire NBA season and we were together. Once why did you feel like you've ever gotten to a rapport with Phil? Then on not the way that I normally would like to to think of chemistry no I I would look back on that and say there was definitely a disconnect because he was doing the show during a very brief time that he had actual time to commit to it in between other things so it was never a focus for him. Phil was very easy to deal with. He could not have been more of a gentlemen's very interesting guy. His view of what the show should be compared to what my view was and management. Were to different a he at one point on a show wall. There were definitely some things happening with the Lakers. You wanted to do twenty minutes on canned goods one. That's real and I I remember after the show meeting would somebody from serious and and he asked me how. How did you get on that time? Think that was filling as I tempted to get off topic. He went back to that topic. So yeah it. It's something that I always looked at as as a real strength of mine connecting with my partners finding that that dynamic that works that was digestible for the audience. I would say that was one of the few instances where I just couldn't quite get over the Hump on that particular setup Stephan. We should wrap this up. I think you know before we got. We should all just grid how he did. Not In the same location. I can give us a solid C. Four but we faked it. Well Yeah that's a Great Eagle calls the NFL the NBA. Pretty much. Everything else. Thanks so much for coming on the show. Angry to see you guys all right. We'll let you know that in this week's bonus segment for slate plus members. We'll be talking to our slave colleague. Heather sh widow not a sports fan about her interpretations of the last dance. What was it like for a sports? Please stick around for that and join slate. Plus SLATE DOT com slash hangup plus the NFL came up with the Rooney rule in two thousand three under threat of litigation from a pair of civil rights attorneys one of them. Johnny Cochran the rule which requires teams to interview minority candidates for head. Coaching and front office positions was meant to boost minority hiring. It hasn't really worked today. Seventeen years later the. Nfl has three black head coaches the same number. As when the Rooney rule was adopted. The League gets seems once that to change the. Nfl will reportedly consider a pair of resolutions during the owners. Virtual meeting on Tuesday the I would do away with the rule that permits teams to block assistant coaches from interviewing for coordinator positions with other teams. This second would reward teams with improved drafts. Lots if they hire minority head coaches a football executives. So Josh you think. Nfl teams are now going to fall over themselves to hire Marvin Lewis any probably not poor. poor Marvan but Anthony Lynn. One of the three black head coaches I think had it exactly right when he said in an interview. I think sometimes you can do the wrong thing while trying to do the right thing. I don't think that it's a bad idea for the NFL. To look at the Rooney rule and say how can we improve this? How can we get more opportunities for minority coaches and executives? That's a good impulse the way that they're going about it here or that they're proposing to go about it. Here seems wrong in that people that support minority hiring and people who oppose it are going to be united and thinking that this is a bad idea if you are upset or outraged bird or think that there should be more opportunities here. You'RE GONNA look at this and be like all right. You're saying that you're now qualifying like a minority head. Coach is worth six spots in the third round. I mean we can go through the specifics of the proposal. But it's basically like putting a value on a coach that's associated with like moving up a couple of spots in the draft and it just feels wrong and it also sends the message. That teams won't do this unless they're giving a cookie for you know. Oh well you don't want black coach there. We'll give you a third round pick. I'm like Oh okay now I really do want black. I mean it just sends the wrong message and on the other side. You're GONNA have the usual suspects people being like. This is unfair. It's discrimination it's the same conversations that you hear about affirmative action and that's going to be unfair to the coaches the do get these opportunities. They're going to be seen as Being less deserving Because these inducements are now attached to it. So you know Steph and it just seems like a good idea in theory and just really really bad in practice. Let's start with the NFL's history. It's not just. How many black coaches there are. It's their overall hiring policies. And they've been uniformly terrible over the years the institute for Diversity and Ethics in sport that group that's run by Richard Lap Chick most recently gave the NFL. D plus in hiring for coaches and an F. for hiring diversity for general managers it all reflects the horrific insularity of NFL ownership. I mean you said. Give them a cookie. I mean it's exactly like that the NFL has the treat. It's owners like toddlers. These are the same people who think Colin Kaepernick is a social menace. It's astounding how little what little awareness the thirty two owners in the NFL. Have of what constitutes collective fairness what constitutes equity what constitutes progress and they demonstrate their failings over and over and over. It really shows to me how insulated NFL ownership is from the reality on their own workplaces ingestion. You mentioned something about how you know. Those coaches that might get hired under. These circumstances might be seen as less deserving which that's true but I have and I think that if you got hired under those circumstances you might might not have as much of a problem as you think because that's never stop the NFL. Coaching carousel from hiring people. That are seen as less deserving all the time I mean nobody look at Mike Shula. Brian Schottenheimer Wade Phillips. Jim Moore Junior call. Shanahan Jay Gruden the Ryan brothers. Mike Nolan Ryan Kiffin. You know even Tom Dmitrov. All these guys are nepotism. Hires in nobody ever says. Hey those guys unless serving. It's just assumed that when you get in there you get in there and you have to do your job and so I think even if you got hired under these circumstances you gotta take it and do the job that you can with it because those opportunities just come around and it's never stopped. Anybody knows middling son from accepting a job but more broadly like you said. I don't think this is going to change anything. I don't think teams care that much about a third round pick rhino or positioning in a third round. Pick to do something like this. I mean it just doesn't it doesn't seem like enough of an inducement to do the right thing. Should there being inducement? Joel I mean. Is there a better approach here? I mean look as Bomani. Jones wrote on twitter having to bribe ownership to seriously consider hiring minority coaches as a staggering indictment of the. Nfl is what Bomani wrote. Should you have to do this or is this a is there a way to improve minority hiring in a league like the NFL? I don't know because I mean it's so dependent as you mentioned on these owners and these people that really don't necessarily believe in diversity or fairness and hiring as a concept in the first place right like I mean there are people that skirt these sort of rules. All the times and other industry is so. I don't know that there's anything that could necessarily be done. But they should do something right but I always think about it. This way that the problem with the pipeline is not it head. Coaching in the head coaching. Position or general managers you've got to build a pipeline way before you ever get to that point A lot of coaches get stuck and positions that you know position coaching roles that never get that sort of responsibility in it is not really an advancement and I'll use this example so I played at. Tcu Nine thousand nine hundred ninety eight and ninety six we had three black assistant coaches at TCU. This is nineteen ninety-six. All three of them today. A running backs coaches still you know and and only one of them has had an opportunity to be coordinator at some point net careers and it wasn't like one of those coordinator positions where you call plays. It was being a coordinator in name only. So you think about it. So like that guy's never even gonNA get a chance to be to get the sort of advancement that somebody else gets a coordinator position when the thirty one years old guy like Lincoln Riley or or whoever else so yeah I just I get what they're trying to do but the problem is pipeline and I don't know how you deal with that so a couple of things the thing that the real indictment of the NFL as compared to other industries and of in leadership positions and journalism. In which we're familiar with and and you know many other industries that were less personally familiar with as a scandal in itself but the NFL. The vast majority of players are black and so when the coaches and know ownership and management arm black than that is an indictment of the whole industry. I mean it's an obvious point where it's saying like they're obviously people that can do these jobs and should be given an opportunity to do these jobs. So that's point number one The second point is I think this is a really really important lesson in the difference between You know how things are in Noun on paper and then how. Things are executed in practice. The Rooney rule is progressive and the NFL was progressive. Instituting and in two thousand and three and the numbers that you mentioned Jal It's certainly true. That the number of coaches the same now as it was seventeen years ago but that does It's a little bit more of a topsy turvy story than that. It did. Initially I think work and there were more coaches and then just like And again this happens across other industries. These coaches get an opportunity and then maybe they don't you know some of them succeed in down and then like Marvin Lewis. They don't ever get an opportunity again so it's like okay. We hired by coach. That didn't work. We're not going to do that again. And so I think the NFL is right and saying we need to do something different. We need to change something here. But I thought Mike Florio profootballtalk had a really good point. The problem here is moving from the Paradigm of Punishments to the Paradigm of reward. There's only been one fine. Ever issued for Rooney rule violation to Matt Mellon when he was with the Lions. Congratulations mad melon. And being the only person to ever get fined for this the NFL has been unwilling to punish teams for making a sham of the renewal process for going through with interviews with coaches. They don't intend to hire with not taking it seriously. That is where the NFL should put. Its Energy and attention is making sure that these interviews are real. That more coaches are getting the opportunity to interview the part about In the first part you mentioned y'all of getting more minorities opportunities to be coordinators. That is the part here that will get the least attention but as the most important and just bringing the whole concept of reward and giving team something for you know a practice that they should be doing anyway. It sends the wrong message. Punish punish right. The word and I'm glad you mentioned the bit about allowing assistant coaches to be interviewed for coordinator positions because that is far more important. There are a lot of African American and other minority coaches in the NFL. Position Coach's position assistance. Who Don't get to move up and running coaches flat running back. Coach is a lot of defensive coaches who who don't get to move up particularly because they don't get the opportunity to run the offense which is the most likely path to becoming a head coach so allowing coaches assistant coach to be interviewed for these jobs and getting rid of some of these bogus deadlines and sort of periods when they're not allowed to talk to other teams is a real step forward. The insane part about this is that the NFL also is having to write into this rule that every team will have to notify the league. About what an assistant coaches responsibility actually is to prevent teams from giving them titles that would prohibit them from being interviewed for these positions so the League is going to have to build in rules to keep teams from changing the titles of assistant coaches to prevent them from qualifying to be interviewed for coordinator jobs. That is just another tremendous indictment about what this league has to do to prevent owners from doing the wrong thing in a question. I have is who wanted this. Who proposed this and who wanted this does the NFL. Actually this is some sort of you know potential lawsuit in the works that we don't know about have they been contacted by somebody that makes them want to address this now because I guess I'm just curious about what what's pushing this like? This past off season Joe. Judge gets the giants head coaching job and he was a special teams coach. Rate and the guy that got hired in Cleveland Kevin's defence key. These are guys that don't have as much experience and as many accolades as Eric. Bana made a no black offensive coordinator for the chief so the NFL is responding to events. That happened in twenty twenty. And I bet they thought that they were GonNa get praised for it right bright. Well also look this public relations a does affect the NFL. They are not immune to bad. Pr Jim Trotter. Who's African American who covers the NFL for the NFL? Network said the end of last year. That Clemson offensive coordinator named Tony Elliott rejected being interviewed by the panthers. I thought it was going to be a bogus interview. And that of a week. Or so later. He quoted an unnamed black. Nfl assistant coach. Nfl is finally shown. It's not the place for black men to advance. It's ridiculous it's disgusting. We can sell tickets and make plays but we can't lead. Maybe there was pressure and is pressure and there should be pressure is coming from the. Nfl PA is coming from an outsider. Like Cyrus Mary or lawyers. That are once again going to have to threaten the NFL or have we don't know right now but that wouldn't be out of the question is not for me to tell. Tony Elliott whether or not to take interviews that he knows maybe a sham or not because at least for the panthers the it had been telegraph. That Matt Rule. The head coach. Baylor was always going to be the guy in that role right but I do think it's important to take those interviews because you just never know by getting in the room and that's why like the idea that people might be diminished by getting installed. You know through these means might make them seem less deserving kind of falls apart because the thing is that often guys just need to get in the room. And that's the biggest problem in a lot of in these instances just not even getting the opportunity to make your case to the decision makers and like. That's the piece that needs to be solved here and yes. This proposal does kind of get at that but I just I guess I'm just really cynical about the idea that the NFL and the people that are in charge of these franchises are really going to do anything unless you punish them but even then you're punishing them not for not hiring but for not taking the the rule seriously because that's another step right taking the rule seriously and then going through it making a higher and I just you know we've been talking about this. Entire life is a football fan and there hasn't been much movement on it and you know I I doubt they will see much movement on it. The rest of my life well. I think you're right that if these rules went into place and it's unclear it seems extremely unlikely to me that this will be approved given of the criticism that received instantly. Stanley but in a world. In which this did happened. I thank you know coaches who got these opportunities. Shouldn't turn them down. At the point I was trying to make is just that you know you would be associated with a team jumping six spots from where it is slotted to pick in the third round like that that's a part of a transaction on the wire. It's you know ex coach hired Ex team moves up six slots in the third round. And if you look at like I mean it's a long list of bullet points if a minority assistant left to become a coordinator elsewhere. His former club would receive a fifth round compensatory pack and it kind of goes on and on and the thing that made me think of was Tampa Bay sending two first round picks and two second round. Picks to the raiders for Jon Gruden. I think that they weren't disappointed with that. Trade because they they want a super bowl but like that's the that's the value that's connected to Jon Gruden right and then you know minority coach. Td is worth six slots in the third round. It's just makes it. It makes the whole thing. Look Chintzy and ridiculous and unfair From whatever perspective you want to look at it. It's just the whole thing. Looks look like the result of a round of negotiations where someone in the NFL headquarters said well. Maybe it's worth the first round pick and someone else said no way. What are you kidding me? A black coach that's sixth round. Pick and then. They settled on six slots in the third round. It looks cheap. I think we can put a pin there. Clearly we'll be hearing more about this the NFL owners will meet on this on Tuesday. Which will be the day. Some of you all listen to this podcast so Maybe we'll circle back on this. Now is time for after balls and there's a really sad part of Brian Russell's wikipedia page. I just wanted to let you guys. Now it's not enough. I wanted to prepare you because this has added as it reads as follows in two thousand nine Jordan mentioned Russell and his hall of fame induction speech who calling an interaction they had during Jordan's first retirement in eighteen ninety four lobby blabbity Blah Russell says why did you quit? You know I guard you. Jordan says from this day forward favor see Russell and shorts. I'm coming at him in response. Russell challenged Jordan to a game of one on one for charity. Such a matchup has not yet taken place though the Utah Flash of the N. Bdo did stage a halftime game between Russell and a Jordan look alike. Oh God. That's that's like racing a horse for Brian Russell. Utah Flash of the D. League the G. League. I guess it is now staged this. I guess. Congratulations to them. Coming up at the that promotion. Stephan what is your Utah Flash. Well this past week Major League baseball prepared sixty seven pages of medical and safety protocols. Should the sport return for a partial season on proposals? Include social distancing during the national anthem and when men are on base no managerial lineup card. Swapping no throwing the ball around Macquarie. No high fiving no fist bumping no spitting tobacco chewing or sunflower seed expect rating the most spitting edict is getting a lot of attention because no spitting baseball next crotch-grabbing. They're killing baseball. Anyway you'll recall a few weeks ago. I reported that the last huge US pandemic in one thousand nine hundred eighteen and nineteen was not responsible for outlying the spitball. I also didn't turn up any evidence that the pandemic hastened the demise of plain old spitting in baseball players began spitting during baseball's earliest years. In the mid nineteenth century when chewing tobacco was very popular tobacco produced saliva which was good for lubricating the mouth on dry dusty ballfields and also for lubricating newfangled leather gloves. I couldn't find any stories about the contemporaneous spitting habits of the nineteenth century baseball players. But I did stumble across an interesting item in the February one. 1896 edition of the Pittsburgh press quote Van Hall trend will be asked to sign an agreement curtailing his tobacco. Smoking during the playing season Van. Halton was George van Halter and he played seventeen seasons mostly for the New York. Giants still tons of bases batted over three hundred a dozen times and he also had an awesome handlebar moustache a few days after the Pittsburgh report story only Buffalo Morning News reported that the giants club people had sent word to Van Hall trend in San Francisco. That unless he quit smoking or at least limit himself he could not play on the New York team next year. Giants Andrew Friedman. The paper said is convinced vans. Excessive smoking interfered with his good work last year and insists on limiting the abuse. It's interesting that people in eighteen ninety six thought that smoking might be bad for athletes. Two thousand nine slate explainer about baseball chewing tobacco by Brian Palmer noted that the sudden decline of former batting champion King Kelly 1892 was attributed to his longtime habit of smoking while patrolling the outfield but Van. Halter was no Kelly. He didn't do good work in eighteen. Ninety six he did great work. He hit three forty stole thirty. Two bags drove in one hundred three runs and had a career. I P of nine eleven. Not that he would have known that because Oprah's didn't exist in eighteen ninety six. So why would the giants a story about Van Hall and Smoking Problem? Probably because Friedman the owner was a notorious asshole whom bill. Jane's called George Steinbrenner on Quail Woods with a touch of Al Capone. Friedman was a real estate millionaire. Tammany Hall insider who routinely alienated his players and managers star Pitcher Amos. Roussy would sit out that eighteen ninety six season because of disputes with the owner the smoking threat against Van Hall trend was probably a contractual ploy by Friedman against a star player according to an incredible sabre bio written by Bill Lamb. Friedman fought with fellow national league owners and literally fought with reporters covering the giants to punish the League for not taking his side. After a player used an anti Semitic slur against him on the field. He tanked the giants saying I would not give five cents for the best baseball player in the world to strengthen it that nearly crippled the league because other teams relied on big gates from giants Games. His fellow owners wound up caving. Friedman finagled his way back into power until he left the sport to run the construction. Of New York's first subway line the Iot from which he got even richer and for which he was widely praised Friedman later was a director of the company the back the Wright brothers he had a nervous breakdown and died in one thousand nine fifteen at age fifty five as for Van Hall. Trinh baseball associates defended him against smoking. Charge Connie Mack said that I am confident. He never carried it to that extreme where his health was injured. The big outfielder was always very careful of his health. The trainer for the Pittsburgh Pirates van Halter play before joining. The giants said the smoking report was absurd and the van. Hulten was a crank on his health when he was in Pittsburgh. He backed up that claim with details than hall. Trend was usually the first man in the room after the game and was the last one out he would not go out in the air sweat. He was careful about eating and finally we and obviously most important to maintaining one's health after taking his bath and being rubbed down he would always stand around fanning himself with a towel for five minutes before dressing. I couldn't determine whether van Halter and smoke less or more during the eighteen ninety six season but he had a career best three fifty one average with thirty nine steals and a league. Twenty one triples. Nice Josh what's your Utah Flash before I get to my actual Utah Flash. I have to say that I have an update on the Michael Jordan. Brian Ross all look alike one game from two thousand nine. Is the price of looking up after Bonham too quickly so it turns out that the owner of the Utah Team Brandt Anderson tried to convince people that are actually a real game and like the lookalike all over town to try to drum up interest in this and ended up having that offer refunds to seventy five hundred people that bought tickets to this game to thinking. They're going to see a Brian Russell Michael Jordan one on one game. Oh man offered one hundred thousand dollars to the charity of the Winter Choice Jordan somehow declined shockingly to play Brian Russell at a D. League game in two thousand nine so just a little bit more information now onto my actual Utah Flash. A couple of weeks ago. My friend ten mcclelland asked an important question on twitter. Is the last dance going to ask Michael Jordan why he wouldn't license his image to NBA Jam? The answer tad is now. The last dance did not address that like it didn't address so many other things so I will address it now. Jordan was not in the arcade and home console smash hit NBA Jam because he opted out of regular NBA licensing and made his own arrangements presuming correctly that he could cut better deals for himself than the League could make on his behalf but by opting out of NBA Jam. He missed out on the Europe label. Opportunity to be part of the amusement and music operators associations most played video game for nineteen ninety-three. Actually it's not true. I mean the part about it being most played games trail. But because Michael Jordan is Michael Jordan did get his boom shock cake and eat it to an oral history published in sports illustrated video game developer mark. Turmoil says the following. And I quote Gary. Payton got a hold of me and wanted to be in the game. I told him what we would need. Not Thinking anything would come of it. I should say that Gary Payton is not in the game and that if you plan a jam it's Shawn Kemp and been wait. Benjamin Gary Payton feeling well but left out so he calls. The developer of the game. the developer says. I told him what we would need. Not Thinking anything would come of it. A lot of effort like nine images for the head then. I received photographs in the mail. Payton standing in front of a wall and all these angles then he said Oh. I'M BUDDIES WITH KEN. Griffey junior and he wants to be in the game and Michael Jordan wants to be on the game. I did a special version of the game with three of them in it. I sent that to Peyton. I was happy to do. It was pretty early in his career. It wasn't even clear it was the right move. Okay Gary Payton Gone Michael Jordan. Nba Jam and Michael Jordan was still an asshole to him and last answer. Shake him my damn head This MJ version of NBA. Jam has never been released. Gary Payden apparently has it in his garage. If you want to play this just ask Gary Payden. It's not it's not on me according to the NBA Jammed Super Nintendo Faq on the website game tax published on April seven. Thousand nine hundred four any codes that you might receive to quote unlocked Jordan and the Console version of the game are quote bogus and are merely an attempt by one person to make themselves look cool. Don't fall for it. Game fact says in Nature Ninety four DAFFYD Q. Continues other rumored secret characters that can be confirmed as false are as follows? I'm not making this up. These are all all false false rumored secret characters the list as Barney the dinosaur beavis and butthead Charles Manson Jeffrey Dahmer Randall. Cunningham Jim Harbaugh Magic Johnson Larry Bird it. Dr J. The Red Ninja Donahue. That is rush. Limbaugh DARTH vader Superman Al Pacino. Santa Claus the stay puffed marshmallow cool spot Sinbad Humpty Hump Oprah Alien Predator dray snoop and Michael Jackson no mention of Big Into Pack Humpty Humpty Hump of digital underground yes so if you wanted to play Humpty Hump in a video game you might be out of luck. Unless they're games out there that I don't know about but there have been various Jordan titles released over the years one of them Michael Jordan Chaos. In the windy city is a side scrolling platformer released in one thousand nine hundred four in which Jordan throws basketball's to incapacitate has enemies. You can watch a play through of the entire game on Youtube because of course you can but everything you need to know really is in the country in the beginning that explain the premise of the game. So I'm just GonNa read that part and then we'll be done. It begins with the following tidal. It's a windy day in Chicago. I practice for an all star Charity Game. So you know this is funny. Michael Jordan would never play a charity. Michael shows up and finds his team has disappeared. Their stuff is here. But they're not he says this is weird suddenly through a skylight crash a ball with a note scrawled on it. Note Mr Jordan if you want to save your pals come to the Egyptian Room in the field museum at midnight come alone signed. Dr Max cranium. Michael says man. This is serious. I'd better check out the panel. Then reads that night a guard. Lets Michael into the closed museum in the Egyptian Room Michael? Well I'm here now. What hey a door in the wall? He enters warily. Michael What the the panel finding himself at the entrance to an underground prison Michael sets out to find his friends and then we again not anywhere in space jam. I guess sounds better the spice town. Although you know just the notion that Michael has friends that if the friends appeared that he would want to find them. That seems a little bit less believable than the fact that you can throw basketballs at your enemies to incapacitate them Michael Jordan in the windy city by today. That is our show our producer. Melissa Kaplan Pashas and subscribe or just which out dot com slash hangup email us at hangup sleep dot com. You are still here. You might want even more hang up and listen in our bonus segment this week. We're joined by our colleague. Heather twiddle sports newbie talked about her experience watching plus dance with the bullying and trash talk in general I mean. I realized that he was painting. A Rosier picture of it then was probably really true. Because yeah if I were a rookie and had Michael Jordan Lake terrifying me all the time. I would hate that. I wouldn't think the payments in the same way as at all conversation. Join slate plus. It's just thirty five dollars for the first year you can sign up at slate. Dot Com slash. Hang up plus for Joel Anderson and Stephan. Pats says I'm Josh. Levin Remembers almost movie and thanks for listening.

Michael Jordan NFL NBA director Michael Jordan Joel Utah basketball Phil Jackson Scotty Scottie Pippen Scottie Luc Longley Denis Rodman Ron Harper Steve Pippen Steve Kerr Scottie Pippen Chicago Bulls Brian Russell football Washington Bulls
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Clinton you speed radio network lie radio. It's nothing new prevention on Mexican soil. The speculation comes after nine. US citizens from a Mormon sect were slaughtered this week by a drug cartel also on Thursday Mexican daily Sin Embargo published a story detailing ailing how US lawmakers and top media outlets are pushing for the US government to declare the cartels to be terrorists. Such a move could clear the path to unilateral actions by the Pentagon handing the mantle of war on drugs to the US armed forces. After Mexico's president has repeatedly made clear. He is in favor of pursuing associated economic solution to the huge problem of crime in the country or as he puts it hugs and not bullets. The Liberty is sponsored in part by brave botanical high-quality crater in CBD at reasonable prices with excellent customer service brave botanical is activist owned and mission driven. And I believe so strongly in the power of Krayyem. They're giving it away for free. Just go to freelance of freedom dot com for a free onto crater delivered to your door. Just just pay shipping. That's free SUPRATIM DOT com. This is the latest edition of the Liberty. beat find US online at liberty. Beat DOT News Dot News. Your news now continues. The Epstein didn't kill himself me has reached an entirely new unprecedented level as it has officially crossed the line from Internet. Me Into I do. Physical reality via the underside of a beer. Can't the might unleash. Reports at tactical ops brewing in Fresno California is printing the message Epstein. Didn't kill himself itself on the bottom of beer cans as according to local Fox affiliate k. m. p. h. Carlos Taber manager of tactical ops. said that the idea for or printing the message on the breweries cans. I came to him around a week ago. Because the Jeffrey Epstein Meam is quote a big thing right now and only about fifty eighty four packs of Kanza Bashar oatmeal stout with a special messages printed on the bottom will be released by the Beret. A ticket in writing scheme in College del Tennessee has led multiple police officers to claim they were fired for attempting to call out the illegal orders handed down to them to make arrests and right tickets former college l.. Police Officers Robert Vito Colby docket and David shilling have all filed lawsuits against the city and his officials for wrongful termination after speaking out against what they refer to as illegal quota system now this month the last officer left on the force finally resigned. The Free Thought Project reports on Friday ridgetop police chief Brian Morris submitted his resignation and the town is now without a police force in September. Duck and chilling came forward with the same allegations allegations as beetle. All three officers were fired. Without reason. When they claim to be exposing the illegal quota system Janey Parks Farnell the attorney representing all? Three cops ops argued the firings were just another example of the city of college. Del Cheap Ryan Hickman and city manager. Ted Rogers terminating skilled officers simply because they brought attention attention to the illegal quota system implemented by the department support for the liberty comes from the conscious resistance network featuring videos news reports articles from a spiritual anarchist perspective experience the conscious resistance at the conscious resistance dot com. How would you like to have your business? The Liberty beat you can just an email to liberty beat at DOT news for details. This is the liberty produced in partnership with SNL as news and listeners like you the liberty is online at liberty beat dot news and SNL Stop News. I'm McMurdo reporting for the Liberty. Reminding you spread liberty with a smile. Shortly after members of the New York Police Police Department found a super sharp buck brand pocket knife earlier. This morning lieutenant. Joseph Mattioli spoke to onion reporters at the scene of the discovery to update the public on this potentially angelique deadly blade at eight forty. Am police discovered what seems to be a pretty bad ass buck knife. Investigators believed to be basically the deadliest knife ever Mattioli confirmed that the pretty cool would handle knife has a clean edge and added that the blade must be quote at least like eight inches. Long at this time we'd like everyone to be aware that there's there's probably a man out there with an eye patch and scars all over his face that has access to these knives. Or Maybe Even Samurai Sword Weird people to be careful when approaching because he may flip out and chop both your arms off before you even realize it. Following the announcement Mattioli asked people to come forward if they had any information about the owner of the knife or if they just wanted but to hold it for a couple of seconds for more on this story. Check this week's on the onion news network. It's free it's free talk live. You can bring up whatever you want our toll free number for you. Eight fifty five four fifty free like freedom eight five five four or five zero three seven three three. We have the discord kalon rooms head over to discord Don L. R. N. ON FM. Jump into one of those. You'll sound like you're sitting here with us. We're going to go back to your phone calls and thoughts with you tonight. It's IAN NOBODY FROM NOBODY DOT COM and Chris and also coming up. China is going to be imposing a curfew on young video gamers. We'll tell you about that on the way plus the FBI and their comments on cryptocurrency. But first Dave is on the line in San Francisco. Your Free Talk Live. Hello David Hurry. Oh Man I what did I hear you saying about putting a curfew on Video gamers that's working on in China right now. I when I think about when I I you know this was an old computer that was like an early that was like the size of a suitcase but it was considered a laptop sort of thing and I got stuck on that day in game on there it was like on a five inch floppy disk and I was because thing called Games on this. Yeah yeah the name of the brand name was K- pro no it wasn't cape cheap row it was I don't think it was twenty five years ago anyway. Fifteen hours straight I. I wish somebody would put me on a curfew. Wait you play the game the adult. Yeah Yeah Yeah. It was ninety one. I think I was ninety one. So you think you'd have been better off. We're ninety one or it was ninety one because that's a big difference. Nine hundred ninety nine hundred ninety one years old. Yeah Wow and twenty five years ago that would make you like that would over excessively old yet. It's all it's all relative Have you been traveling going faster than the speed of Light I. There are a lot of news articles who bought But anyway let me. Are you saying that he'd be better off. If the government men came after you with curfew penalties that you think you'd be better off today if some armed men with guns showed up at your house and told you get off the computer or no. Ah I wish somebody are. They honestly trying to get armed. Men is when you don't follow the curfew men with guns. Show up even tell you what to do. There's no loss trivial that the government won't kill you to enforce it. Well the out here in California. We just got Pacific Gas and electric. Turn off the electricity for. Oh Yeah I in San Francisco. They're shutting it down. But I'll tell you the county seat. Just south of here Redwood City. That's kind of the top of Silicon Valley. I mean there's billions of dollars down there and just come along and turn it on. Turn it off turn it on turn turn it off. Can you imagine hundreds of millions of dollars worth of damage. You know. Every time they turn it on turn it off. There must be all sorts of grinding machines and all all sorts of stuff heard how God horrible. Yeah well so they they actually got into this when the first major outage happened a few weeks ago we covered here here on free. Talk Live and they estimated well the first purposeful outage in California rolling blackouts. Okay versatile national. They've been going on all summer. No the first one hundred and several weeks ago. Okay Yeah it was. It was relatively Myers. They knew there was. They knew there was a massive storm. Don't worry building up out in the ocean and I don't know if you have argued with you all the four about whether or not global warming exists there have been typhoons out there that are twenty twenty five hundred miles across and you know in fact About ten years ago there was a a typhoon that started in one hundred twenty five hundred hundred one tenth of the the diameter the earth. I'm telling you this conference is twenty five thous is the. Why does the United States almost two and a half time zones? That sounds absurd so this thing Willie Ocean to fit that on either side of the Pacific wires. In the United States heats diffic- it was in the Pacific. It started in the Philippines. It went straight due north bypass in Japan and slammed into the Bering Strait. And then you know that polar vortex it crashed into it and it bounced a chunk of coal cold old. You know that icy wind. That's in the polar vortex. It broke off a chunk by ricocheting on there and it flew across Kansas and slammed into Texas. It didn't chill out to Kansas but if throws the crops in Texas. I'm telling you this is like eight or ten years ago it's And I'll think of the name of the title. There's some amazing environmental things that have gone on what you're pointing. California brownouts were because they knew a storm storm that it was a similar size was building up a half a week early and so they knew it was going to slam us with eighty mile an hour winds and You know seventy five mile an hour winds hurricane worse right so eighty mile. An hour wind ripping down power poles. you know causing that's pretty rare wings look I don't remember hearing anything about this big old typhoon. That was the reason for the shutdown but they definitely did shut the power off And that did result in billions of dollars worth of damage to the bay area businesses for instance who could not run their business this restaurants with food spoiling meat going bad in the refrigeration unit narrow offering like a ten a hundred dollar credit. You know for awesome any cash. Yes scammers P genie I. I'm I suspect that the US counterfeit parts as they were building their power poles. They were buying like cheap insulators And that they basically built their infrastructure with counterfeit parts and that's why they're turning it on and off they know that they're going to And in fact you know October is basically the wet season for California and we've seen virtually no rain You know I'm we're getting light fog tonight. But there's been no rain for you know all of October basically and we're into November already. Have you ever read atlas shrugged. Oh you mean about An ran to her job about We just got to be tough and survive. Well the thing the thing about it is it describes the onset of socialism and die. And you know there's par there throughout the book. The whole infrastructure of the country is collapsing as the government either takes it over or regulates it into into nonexistence and it kind of reminds me of what's happening the all out in California states just falling apart hard. What are you talking about the prices that they could charge which deprived them of the funds? They need to do basic maintenance. The power company initiating into the they they're not maintaining the line. which is which is false is true but it's it's manipulated and then to as if they're profiting offering from you know from it? When that's only that's a very small percentage of the actual money that would be required to actually come to the cost of maintenance well and the other side of it in a place where OPEAN? PG and E. IS UNETHICAL is. No I'm not saying they're not happily you know you can't just buy power from from somebody else in California because if somebody else tries to sell you power in California men with guns will show up again and right. PGA PGA has a monopoly. Granted have your solar panels to charge your own batteries to run your own house if if you have solar panels in California have to go to connect them up to me and when the power goes out they don't work because power is going. No India houses going down the PG PG connected to nothing. Thank you David for the call tonight. I appreciate it. I mean he's going to deny it to the hilt that Kath California's a socialist state state Because he supports socialism. That guy's been calling the show for years show. He's he's never heard around. He's never heard lefty program that he didn't like. Yeah total hodel partisan we continue here. We got John. He's on the line in New Hampshire. You're on free talk. Live entree partisan eight. You're on the air. Hey we're on on the air with you. Welcome so what you want okay. Well we're doing a radio show so when we go to you you gotTa Talk. We'll give you one more chance here. Stay by I don't know what show you're Iran but Normally we would like to get to the point on whatever the calls so we'll try one more time here in a moment. Eight fifty five four fifty free. That's eight five five four five zero three seven three three three plus you can call on our discord server over a discord dot L. R. N. Dot. FM just jumped into one of those on air. Call in line Rosa. Got A guy waiting in there too and It's over discord dot L. R. Dot. FM plus. Coming up the video game curfew. I can definitely say that I have found the the best crypto currency wallets. Certainly the best named one. I'm mark edge and I love the edge wallet I've been using it. For the last few months you can buy sell trade and hold your cryptocurrency securely I trust my holdings of all the major crypto currencies to edge wallet. 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Whatever I'm doing you keep it we're landlords and I have three people moving in and it's been very strenuous but I have the energy to do thanks to You know thousand nature ancient. My blood work is getting better and better every six months at work when they were thinking about summation all the numbers are always always changing for the better. Every that's experienced the balance of nature. Difference for yourself call or go online now and become a preferred customer which gives you are our best pricing and free shipping and we'll take an additional twenty five dollars on your first order. This will be a limited time offer. Don't wait call. Eight hundred two four six say seven fifty one or go to balance of nature dot com and use Discount Code F. T. l.. The Free State Project Project Has Reached its goal of Twenty Thousand Liberty Lovers who've pledged to move to New Hampshire and get active to achieve liberty in our lifetime. Perhaps you're trying to figure out what part of New Hampshire should be your destination. If so consider keen you'll find more than one hundred fifty reasons to move too keen at move dot free keen dot com teen is is famous for its historic publicity generating activism as well as being the liberty media capital of the world. It's home to freaking Dot com New Hampshire's destination for liberty activism. The News and opinion for years. We've been compiling over one hundred fifty reasons to move too keen at Move Dot Free Keen Dot Com. Where you'll learn about some of what's happening happening here? And what makes keen a great place to live. If you love liberty you'll probably enjoy anywhere you end up in the Shire but do your due diligence. I please visit move dot freaking dot com for the full list of over one hundred fifty reasons to move to keene. That's move dot free keen dot com. There are lots of ways to listen to to free talk live. Our podcast has been around since podcasts began and now the F. T. L. feed is loaded with content besides are full show archives. Did you know that we make it. Easy for you to customize your podcast subscriptions we have different feeds one that includes only are full shows one with just the daily digest and one with just the edging ten post. You decide what you listen to. It's quick and easy to customize your feeds at feeds dot freetalklive dot com that's feeds dot freetalklive dot com. I'm a little obsessed with my magic mud several years ago I met Jessica on the founder and CEO of my magic bud and not even know my teeth were coffee. Stained a week's worth of use convinced me and now I use it every three or four four days it's clinically proven to whiten teeth. And I think it cleans better to my magic mud's available at most local health. Food stores sprouts natural grocers. CVS Walmart's natural beauty l.. But I can get it for you for twenty percent off with Coupon Code F. T. L. Twenty at my magic mud dot com. FTSE MAGIC DOT COM love. What we do please help? Supporter reporter International Satellite Channels Patriot on that that FM. That's Patriae on that. Got Him four fifty free. This is free talk live. You can bring up whatever you on here toll free number eight fifty five four fifty free. What's the FBI? I have to say about crypto currency. They apparently spoke spoke on the subject to a Homeland Security Committee. Recently with you in the studio. It's Ian Nobody and Chris plus on the way in in February. It's GONNA BE ANARCHY POCO coming back February thirteenth through the sixteenth. There's GONNA be a ton of speakers. There Ron Paul and John McAfee or two of the main headliners honors but there's literally going to be dozens of folks talking about various topics from entrepreneurship to investments politics philosophy health sustainability lifestyles and personal relationships. You can enjoy enjoy. Four days among the sun and beaches of a world class resort on Beautiful Acapulco Mexico and you can get ten percent off by going to Antarctica Polka dot com using code F. t. l. like free talk live again February thirteenth through the sixteenth. That's anarchy POLKA. Dot Com with Promo Code F.. T. L. as we go back to your your calls and thoughts. We're going to give John New Hampshire another crack. John what were you calling about tonight you you were saying you're on the air to or are you doing a radio show or something I'm calling from a private residence in New Hampshire and I I'm a I'm someone who has spent time like working with like tracy beans and and she's the bowman who relocated to order. Hang I remember G G Bowen. She was a New York Libertarian activists who you. I'm not surprised she went to Florida. Go ahead she's still is yes so like I think there's a huge like riff happening being within the attorney movement and those that are coming from the idea of like. How do we like like we're we're we're part of a partisan like political football game right so everyone wants to be a part of something that they want onto like latch onto and at the same time? We're losing everything at at the same time. I'm not sure what you're saying. Hang here you're saying there's a division within the Libertarian Movement and because of that division. You're losing everything I think. I think that's like a way started out. Yes yeah I don't think there's much to lose the libertarian. Party doesn't really have much to speak of to begin with. So what's concern. The Libertarian Party has been a joke. That's what I did with Like well AH THERE'S GONNA be a party to like have principals. It's been a joke. Like what like Lenin disagreed with you bill. Ever what it should have been or or should be. I don't think it matters. I mean if that were. I'm sorry I mean to interrupt so it's weird. There's there's like maybe a two second delay so it's causing issues. Just go the head with what you said. Hey I think the libertarian. Party is like failed immensely. I think that it's like failed immensely. With what trump is doing I I like what is it. How to deal with the Libertarian? Party Warrior Libertarian. Partisan with trump. It has to do with the fact that we have we have somebody that is is willing to defend any principle that can be made but put forward. The Libertarians are so like this dissolution solution by the fact that principals can like rule ideologies. I don't get what you guys are young guys understand. What this guy's saying I'm having trouble here. Thank you for the call tonight. John I appreciate it. I'm not going to spend any more time trying to figure it out but you know good luck to you and try to do whatever it is you're doing. I guess I'm glad in New Hampshire. We do need more libertarian types to move to New Hampshire and I I think that the The the best strategies proven strategy is to invade the Republican and the Democrat. Party's you know as far as politics is concerned if you want to have political success. That's what's worked here in New Hampshire. That's what's got libertarians elected. You know you're right but I think at the same time It's partially because we don't have enough libertarians. Here it's it's just one of those things if you have enough libertarians. You're still better off going invading the old parties because they don't have much for activism at all there and you can outnumber them within their own party and frustrate the hell out of the old organisations organizations rather than trying to start from zero and overcome all the ballot access rules that the Republicans and Democrats have a raid against you. Then the thing about about it. Is You get automatic insider status if you're running as a Republican or a Democrat right and if if you're not then you're starting from zero status so you think this is if they're going to build up these power structures. They have to expect people to go up. Do you think -solutely it might be actually be a good thing that we're prevented from having our own party benefits us in some way. I think that multiple parties are a good thing. If you have a a fair playing field I mean you're GonNa see that in an effect in European countries where you know. There are a variety of parties from which can choose the other all bad but the more choices people have. I think that's generally a good thing. Yeah personally you know. We don't have that option here. Well and the voting system the first-past-the-post ah voting system is also very problematical and I don't think ranked choice voting is better really much better know and about approval approval voting approval voting. That I think is the right and I love that up and up and basically listeners. That don't know approval. Voting is is where you get a list of candidates and you can check off as many of the the boxes as you want to so whichever candidate acceptable candidate right right right. And then they they total up the total number of votes each candidate on the number one vote total or wins and the Nice thing about that is it. I like the first past the post forces people to run to the outside to get the To get the nomination after run to the fringe and then run back to the the center in general whereas you know the the defensive candidate is more or less is what you're selecting in approval voting and so it's going to be the candidate who appeals to the greatest number of people not to strategically degration wire of people. Well no not necessarily the greatest liar but the approval voting allows for voter to get over the wasted Vote Oh Syndrome which is the biggest enemy to third parties because typically if they can only choose one option out of five or whatever it is then they're going to choose what they considered me the lesser of the evils. The one that has the chance to win so that's how Right Hillary Clinton Donald Trump voting for the person most likely to be to defeat the worst candidate but if you can vote for more than one candidate than somebody who would. Otherwise have voted for Libertarian. Who instead voted for Donald Trump? Or Hillary Larry Clinton because they were afraid of one of those other people winning They can then vote for Hillary and the Libertarian or Donald Trump and the libertarian. There's no penalty for voting for everyone. You'd be okay with with seeing an office. Yes Oh and ranked ranked choice unfortunately because of the way it works works in rounds. It's very complex. Yeah necessarily so. It's and then you have to figure out which order you prefer and that can be difficult in a multiple all triple candidate situation like. Do I like this guy better in this guy if you select one to somebody else selects the same candidates to one when you kind of cancel each other out it's true So AB five four fifty free. That's eight five five four five zero three seven three three coming up a video game mm curfew coming to China. FBI weighs in on crypto currency. And your thoughts are welcome on free. Talk Live do you want to join the ultra wealthy by using a one hundred and sixty year old investing program that has no longer exclusive. Keep your funds fluid and one hundred percent tax free for you or your heirs with no contribution limits and without ever losing your principal with fortune. 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There are basically two types of advertising direct response and branding radios great for direct response with its low cost to listener ratio but audio. Can't be beat for branding which is a longer term endeavor you you want to be the first thing that someone thinks that when they think about your product or service if you have a local business that you want kept top of mind in your community call the station. If you need national reach freetalklive got around two hundred radio stations. Millions of monthly listening sessions can suit all budgets. And if we don't think we're right for you we'll tell you email me. Mark Talk Live Dot Com L. Dot. FM now has a discord discord is a free text and voice chat platform and we now have our own server with a bunch of channels at discord L. R. N. DOT FM. You can join other listeners. Nur's as they chat about various things during our live shows or anytime day or night. Discord software is available cross platform. So you can have it on whatever device you want and take through chats anywhere. Join our discord at discord dot L. R. N. Dot. FM that's discord dot L. R. N. DOT FM. We have some good news. The indictments against against Ross elaborate in the district of Maryland were dismissed with prejudice meaning. They can never be refiled. This is especially good because those indictments contain the only charge ever made that rawls else engaged in murder-for-hire. This was a serious allegation. At Roles Oprah denies it was never prosecuted or ruled on by a jury but was trumpeted by the federal government and the media. As as if it were proven fact the Maryland Court held these indictments for almost five years poisoning says case and leaving him under a cloud of unproven allegations as explained in Ross's appeal to the Supreme Court the fact that the judge used these allegations together all say draconian sentence of double life without parole violated his sixth amendment right to a jury trial. Judges are required to issue sentences based strong convictions. decided by a jury not unproven. Allegations never even charged trial. Although this is a positive development dropped indictment will not set rolls. Free now now. A presidential pardon is Ross. His only hope of freedom signed the petition at free. Ross Dot Org Free Ross Dot org now you can follow. NFL Valve on the decentralized mastered on Social Media Platform at two dot L. R. N.. Dot FM TUTU DOT DOT FM. This is free talk live and you can bring up whatever you want. Just dial toll free the at eight fifty five four fifty free like freedom. That's eight five five four five zero three seven three three. We have the discord call in line. Rooms they're over at discord dot L. Doc. FM With you tonight. You got in here and nobody and Chris plus on the way in April the third through the fifth in Washington. DC You can join Liberty Liberty Con- It is networking and convention Event with more than seventy pro liberty organizations coming together and you can You take advantage of that for the purpose of career advancement or business and internship opportunities of course should be able to listen to a great list of speakers like John. mackey from whole foods He's also so the CO founder of that company which she'll be speaking on conscious capitalism Vernon Smith who won the Nobel Prize in economics and we'll speak on alternative markets Mariam Isa who is a pop up culture expert and political commentator with three hundred million youtube views and the same Nicholas spent twenty one years as a risk taker before becoming a researcher in philosophical pickle mathematical and practical problems with probability. And there's more go to liberty CON DOT COM for more information additional speakers and events and you can use code F. F. T. L. to save ten percent or not ten percent ten dollars on your registration and prices are not expensive so ten dollars still actually a pretty decent discount over for and Liberty Conduct Com. They made this convention particularly affordable. Because they want young people to come to this thing They've got student travel scholarships that are available as well as discounted rooms for everybody staying at the Marriott Marquee so go and get registered now at liberty conduct com using code F. T. L. for that ten dollar discount so China according to CNN N N is cracking down on Gamers. Based out of the report from Hong Kong China has announced a curfew on online gaming for minors among new measures aimed at curbing video game addiction official government guidelines will be applied to all online gaming platforms operating in the country most notably ten cents the world's biggest gaming company. They're trying to punish everybody for the actions of a few. I mean that's just seems so. Well I mean it's true that a lot more than a few people are addicted to video games. I mean it's a problem. Don't you think now I know I know no I don't play video games but You know I will tell you this and I'm not a frequent player video games but if I get into a game. It's not uncommon for me to stay up till six in the morning and in the sun's coming up before I'm like all right I should stop playing this now and I've been there. I've done that not gaming so Russian but I don't necessarily think that's a problem. It depends on a coke binge. What were you doing? It's six. I I'll do that. Coding from time to time I see the prod solving I will stay up for a long time sure but then you could argue. You're doing something that's productive. You're you're creating code. You might be selling that to some. I mean if you're not satisfied with what you're complicating by playing video game to do something else right. That's that's your choice and if you need to help I'm sure there's a support group calling. There are no need help than calling everything in an addiction is just another way of manipulating people into passing laws that affect others that you know May Not necessarily be addicted and the thing about it is addiction is is not external external its internal okay with your Dick to heroin. Problem isn't in the heroine. It's in you that's right if you're dick to alcohol problem isn't in the alcohol. It's in you so if you if you don't change who you are if you don't deal with the issue than your your quit heroin and you'll just find something else to do compulsively whether it's sex or or whatever I think that's true and You know so so. Getting rid of an individual substance isn't gonNA hell or in this case putting a curfew on thing yet Isn't going unhealth. They're gonna find ways around it. They'll log in under their parents account Or they'll go somewhere use. VPN Use an American based Service for their gaming instead of China they're going to come up with ways to to get around. This and I was being somewhat facetious saying that. I think it's a problem. I suspect that you probably weren't some people. It is a problem and as you're saying here. Nobody it's their problem. They need to overcome it. Having somebody from the outside. Come in and say we're going to solve this for you. It never works well. There's I think there's something more to this story. That never gets mentioned. I think there's a profit motive amongst us our industry which is also causing stitcher industry? A psychology are not psychology addiction clinics so whatever the people who treat psychiatry it would be the word who want to drug people right. Yeah Yeah They they basically helped paid right. There's there's an industry here That wants to make up new terms and addictions in order to profit from them and this is not new industry. This is an industry that has been taking advantage of people for hundreds of years and they've just switched from either switched methods over the years they no longer dump people in cold tanks You know with icy cold water. But they're they're using other tools in order to you. Basically take advantage of of people who are vulnerable and in the case of psychiatry. There doping them up with something else their drugs. It's true as well. The thing that does horrific to me is the suboxone and Methadone clinics were suboxone and Methadone are both have only more opiates. They're they're both opiates so so there are substitutes for For heroin but the thing is each chip them. I have it on. Good Authority has a more difficult withdrawal experience than heroin so basically you end up more more addicted than you were before the only thing that's really changed or at least in terms of the physical thing the only thing that's really changed dealer shifted the money stream too big Pharma instead of to the drug cartels but at I mean so why do people switch to this to get off heroin. They believe I believe it's going to help him get off heroin and they don't understand the other they don't want to go to prison. They won't put you in prison for socks. Oh they they won't put you in prison for method. I just think if you have zones effectively advertising a well I mean it. The the problem is in theory. They're supposed to be using using it to win these kids off in practice. It seems like that's not a focus or a priority for these clinics because they make Kamani when these kids come back. So you know I. I've had them tell me. Oh yeah they keep upping my dosage asking for higher dosages ages and getting it when they've been on these drugs long term which is kind of contrary to the to the whole idea at that point you might as well really really just sell them heroin and let them have of what what they really like. But yeah that's really surprise me too much It kind of reminds me of The lady in Keene. They came to the smoking to increase age smoking Banning banned smoking. Basically it was I. Would they increase it to twenty one. I think it was and From each nicotine products not just smoking. Oh sorry But she came in and she was representing a AH. She represented herself as working for the hospital as she was doing something. Good and then it was like. Oh she's she's four upping age but if you looked at like her her or her background she's basically working for selling a particular product To give people a patch salon pass right and we know that actually has a negative effect on people people who are trying to get off of nicotine products. So I'd say I mean to me. It's like switching from cigarettes to to vaping. Well we'll get right to vaping there's other better solutions out there. So she's making basically speaking in our own interests not in the interest rate of who she is claiming to protect attacked effectively under the new rules. Gamers aged under eighteen will be banned from playing online games between ten PM and eight. AM on weekdays. Minors can only only play for ninety minutes while they play up to three hours per day on weekends and public holidays the guidelines also place restrictions on the amount of money that minors there's can transfer to their online gaming accounts gamers aged between eight and sixteen years. Old can only top up about twenty nine dollars worth of yuan which they say says a two hundred per month while the maximum amount for those between sixteen and eighteen four hundred yuan which is about fifty seven bucks. US We'll tell you more about it on on the way here. Is this the right way to handle video game addiction. Have the government. Stop it now. This is a nanny. State a fifty five four fifty free is our art toll free number and maybe you WanNa comment on your struggle with With addiction whether it be video games or something else entirely because some people they do I have a problem but the government is never the best solution usually makes things worse. We're coming up. It's free talk live. Most of you know that heart disease is the number one silent killer in the US. What if I told you for just fifty four ninety five a month you could fight against heart disease naturally at heart and body extract? 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Let's go to your phone calls and thoughts. We can talk more about Chinese video game addiction. The Chinese government cracking down with with a curfew telling Gamers who are below the age of eighteen. That they're not going to be able to play his games as much as they want. It's after ten PM. Sorry you you won't be allowed to play and you'll only be able to play ninety minutes per day during the week. We go to your calls though I where okay status is on the line fine on our discord server go ahead. Hey It's okay stayed. It's a a a K mortified penguin. I'm calling about PG and E. and you were talking about the issues over there with the fire talked about along this show. Yeah not sure with which hosts but now point out and I'm going to qualify this course. They are technically a for profit company so technically a capitalist country company but there are also happily a monopoly got institute monopoly lighting rank up on because of the night stay because it's different effectively made them bankrupt. They're not they're not a communist monopoly of of any sort but they are in a for profit monopoly. Which means they? They had no competition. They have no competition to provide a better service. Right and therefore acid regulate the rates outside of capitalism because capitalist society anybody would be free to produce and sell power in Socialist California. Only one only one company can buy power and if they can't give you power than even if you have solar panels panels. You can't use it. It sounds like it's the worst for everybody well to consumer both the people who own. It's bad for everybody not not for the people that I was talking to the investors because they have monopoly status and they don't bankrupt because they're not allowed to raise the rates so the state protects them from having a the liability of burning down a half the state because they don't maintain they hit. They got hit with. What thirty billion in a lawsuit? I'm sure damages are way worse than that but they burn out seeing a bunch of people That could not escape and died or saying they're not liable for what happens in the the power outages they cause they're continuing to operate. Obviously they have power over there. But they're continuing operating their continual. Yeah they're continuing to operate. That's what bankruptcy allow. What are you suggesting that the state should take over because the states caused this problem in the first place? Well I'm saying that there is A there is a an protector. They're protecting the investors. In ownership of the company from the investment companies. Bankruptcy is protect attack bankruptcy protection. Another person they have no live they have no actual liability. You know they don't they don't well -bility it's true that the the Past bankruptcy the The investors are not liable for damage done to the company shares are going to be in the toilet. Well there's shares an we're not in in the toilet but the thing is if the company goes negative and the company has liabilities that exceed its assets if if it was a sole proprietorship than you would be able to sue that sole proprietor. That's right yeah and dislodge those funds from him. I don't think so you're saying or First of all the investors are not sitting pretty. I mean they themselves are not liable for the actions of the company. But they're not doing well if the company's companies bankrupt they have the past dividends edition. Okay Ah in addition the even if there was competition if they have the kind kind of protections against liability that they do even if you're not there customer year don't you don't have a protection against them your city burning down taste. They've caused amass forest but they do that. That was the that was caused by the government. Instituting a law which cap them out of money that they could charge. which prevented taught what caused thyroid? That's what Cain the lines. which is what it yeah That caused That was the reason that they that they gave for the for for the For the blackouts but the fires were supposed. I mean there were fires last year that they were held held liable for thirty one billion dollars. And and so that's that and that is because they failed to get to what the state did funnel money to invest business news faulty products and if they paid by Syrian demands. What happened nesters? Don't need money people they need you spend i. They need to spend money too. That's the point. They need to spend the money to do the business without burning state now of course they have protection from the state because they have no real liability. You're you're missing misunderstand. What happened here? The amount of money that the what you're talking about is the CEO. The people working for the company they go. No where's the investors are GonNa get the money from the company. Is bankrupt already gotten. They took the money that they should have gone to what they required to do to avoid liability and they pocketed it already. It's already done it's a moot point. Well it's quite possible to loot a company prior to bankruptcy and quite there so I just asking if if they were paying out a big dividend say last year and save her bankrupt this year. I haven't heard this what I understand. The situation is that the executives executives got paid out a large amount of funds but those funds are only a tiny percentage of what the company needs in order to maintain the lines look. I don't think you're wrong that there's corruption I mean it's a monopoly with government privilege. Of course there's GonNa be corruption of course they're gonNA be cutting corners. They're GONNA be trying to shuffle as much money into their pockets as possible and there's no doubt about that right. I don't think anybody is questioning whether or not the IOS got paid some insane amount of money they supposedly how is it. Investors get paid a huge amount of money from dividends. Are you claiming that there's dividends because I haven't heard that word Pires before the fires and then went an and they they take the money for the fires in instead of performing the part amount of maintenance and then after the fires yet after the fire is on the downside downside they are protected from full liability. Okay I'm I'm skeptical. Basically if it makes you so you do it that way. It's certainly possible but again the only way the way you look back to the last few years and see if PG has paid paid out large dividends lately. And I don't know if they have or have not. Let's presume that they did. Yeah let's let's take the argument here that a few years ago they're paying out huge dividends evidence and they were ignoring the upkeep that they needed to which is what you're saying here Mister Okay status And so okay well again. As you've pointed out Chris. The government government created this situation in the first place by giving this Mega Corporation monopoly status over there. Whatever land mass which is the price that they could charge increase in? It's a number of competitions so there's nobody to drive rates down so rates are constantly going up the capped it. Well they keep raising it over time they have to keep the cap is there but then they go back and they say well. Here's what we need to the Public Utilities Commission. They say we need another billion dollars and my understanding is that that was voted on John and it hasn't been voted on yet. Didn't this is exactly the point. This is the problem. They gained. Vote to increase the CAP. They did not keep up with their still listening complaints lanes from people the Public Utilities Commission supposed to vote sometime this fall. So maybe they're going to do it soon or maybe it just happened But as of the time the outages happened it had not the vote had great bright her the problem they were still hearing from people. Oh there's people who don't want their power bill raised understandably saying hey don't raise our power bill and then on the other hand you've got the the power company which is no doubt rife with corruption as you're pointing out here okay status saying well we need more money and And they're bankrupt and it's just it's a cluster F of epic proportions and as a result of it people are losing power for days at a time and businesses are unable to provide their services to their customers. People can't come to work It's crazy thank you for the call tonight. I appreciate hearing from you and you can join us tomorrow online. In the meantime over at Free Talk Live Dot Com check out nobody dot com for more of nobody and Oh forget Think Penguin and freedom decrypted over at freedom. DECRYPTED DOT COM. That's Kris show that he does on Saturday evenings names at five o'clock eastern time so says yes we'll see tomorrow. FREETALKLIVE DOT COM. Do you have a crypto wealth advisor or coach coach if so as you're cryptocurrency advisor been investing in technology stocks for over twenty years. Have they left the corporate world and retired or are they still trying to make a weekly paycheck have have they produced six-figure results for their customers in the past thirty days and very importantly are they a member of the digital currency council. Seth Maniscalco is the founder of crypto wealth coach and crypto wealth wealth coach Dot Com. Seth invested in his first breath. Ira At nineteen years old while living abroad and has been investing in Wall Street and technology for over twenty years with experience in all the money markets by comparison so many of these so called crypto gurus and barely been alive for twenty years says not only experienced personal success from his own investments in Crypto. He has also helped his clients earn six and seven figure incomes including helping investors. Make over three quarters of a million dollars. Eos In ninety days and one thousand two hundred twenty five percent in only five and a half months with chain blink. Seth has helped for the small. Do Yourself Guy Up to crypto Wales. Increase your wealth is equipped to wealth coach Dot com looking for a great eight real estate investment. Consider New Hampshire which is Ground Zero for the Liberty Movement. Your first call should be to mark worden from porcupine. Real estate is more than just a real estate agent. Easier New Hampshire concierge. Where are the best places to live? Do you want farm city the burbs or forest do you want a duplex or multifamily buildings. So that Renter's pay your mortgage their homes in all price ranges in New Hampshire. I'm sure and mark can help. With financing to invest in liberty and property mark warden can help calm. Some of you asked. And now we've delivered L. R. N. F. M.'s. Live keene New Hampshire. 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I make Merle with your latest edition of the Liberty beat Gold's trading at one thousand four hundred sixty eight dollars silver over at seventeen dollars and eleven cents and Bitcoin is trading around nine thousand one hundred seventy nine dollars. Today's prices are brought to you by Ino- scale take off with with managed cloud looking for a secure way to store your important files online. Let Enos Gail handle it for you. Their high availability cloud servers are the perfect solution. Listen for clients needing one or more secure scalable servers with built in hardware fell over protection for details. See them online it in o scale dot net in the news on Tuesday Project Veritas exposed video of ABC's Amy Roebuck. Admitting that the Disney owned network had witness testimony pertaining to the Jeffrey Epstein. I've seen scandal three years ago but refused to air it. Excuses range from being threatened. A million different ways by the Palace after the Royal Family Somehow got wind the network had allegations against Prince Andrew to a fair that. ABC May no longer be able to interview Kate and will as if the revelations that eight major US network work hit potential evidence and information related to one of the most shocking scandals in history. It has now come out that the person responsible for the leak has been fired. The mind unleashed reports. That not only has no one responsible for bearing the incredibly important story been fired held accountable punish or publicly named an entirely different mainstream network has now fired the employees that formerly worked for. ABC News Mill. Liberty is sponsored in part by brave botanical 's high-quality tatum in CBD at reasonable prices with excellent customer service Ray Botanical is activist owned and mission driven and believes so strongly in the power of crate. Him they're giving it away for free. Just go to free ounce of CRIME DOT COM for a free trade 'em delivered to your door just pay shipping that's free crate Dot Com. This is the latest edition of the Liberty. beat find US online at liberty beat DOT news and SNL DOT news. Your news now continues the intercepts Glenn. Greenwald was assaulted during a live broadcast Thursday by a right wing. Brazilian journalist and defender of the country's four right President Bolsonaro Greenwald Greenwald. Who is reporting this year? has exposed unethical possibly criminal behavior bibles and government repeatedly called journalists and Columnists Gustav Nunez Coward during a segment on Alvin Pan. News one of Brazil's largest right-wing radio on youtube outlets in a tweet ahead of his appearance Greenwald said he had many questions for new nats who suggested in September that juvenile judge should investigate Greenwald and his husband Brazilian lawmaker David Miranda for neglecting their adopted Children Greenwald during the program said that what Nunez did was quote. The ugliest and dirty thing I've ever seen in my career as a journalist in west end quote to former twitter employees have been charged with spying for Saudi Arabia in a case that the Washington posted quote raises concerns about the ability of Silicon Valley to protect private information of dissidents and other users from repressive governments. And the mind unleash reports a complaint unsealed Wednesday in US District Court in San Francisco detailed a coordinated effort by Saudi officials to recruit employees at the social media giant to look up the private data of thousands of twitter accounts the accounts including those of a popular journalist with more than one million followers and other prominent government. The critics the charges come one day after the arrest of one of the former twitter employees a US citizen who is alleged to have spied on the accounts of three users including one who was posed discuss the inner workings of the Saudi leadership on behalf of the government in Riyadh the second former employees a Saudi citizen was accused of accessing. The personal information of more than six thousand twitter accounts in two thousand fifteen support for the liberty comes from the conscious resistance network featuring videos news reports articles from spiritual anarchist perspective. 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Bill and save up to forty five percent on dish TV packages today. These are limited time offers anqing change at any time call fast eight hundred four zero five two five five six one eight hundred four five two five six one eight hundred four zero five two five six one. That's eight hundred four zero five twenty five sixty sixty one live worldwide sports byline USA. And here's host Ron Bucks and wherever you might be across this great great country of ours and around the world. I'm Ron bar good to have you with us for America's sports talk shows sports byline. I'll tell you what's coming up this hour in just a second but let me tell you about next week because we have a great lineup for you remember. Kurt Warner. The running back came out of Penn State won a national championship with the nittany lions and then course was a first round draft choice a high first round draft choice by the Seattle seahawks. He is going to join us on Monday. And then Bruce suitor you remember him. Rate Reliever Steve Steve. Tasker is going to join us. Played for the Buffalo Bills One of the great special teams players. So he'll drop by on Monday as well and then Brian Billick always comes by on Tuesdays to break down on what happened over the weekend in the National Football League we call it inside the game and then I see Bill Polian also one of the Great Front Office. People not only with Carolina Carolina after he took over that expansion franchise but especially up in Buffalo and Ben Wallace for all you basketball fans and so we try to give you a pretty good reason to join join us here. On America's sports talk show sports byline and by the way. I always say this. But if you'd like to reach out to me got something you want to say a suggestion a complaint or whatever it is is easy to do because the buck stops right here. Just email me at Ron at sports. BYLINE DOT COM. If you're thoughtful enough not only to write but also so to sign it. I'll get back to you and send you an email back Roy. Eisenhart kicking things off as he does each week at this time we call the segment inside angle. He has been in a lawyer former president of the Oakland A.'s. When his family owned that team and now he teaches lawn sports and UC Berkeley? And we're going to talk about world series. What he thought about how the world series came out also he teaches law and sports as I said at UC Berkeley so his students are very interested in getting into a field in sports sports either legal wise or otherwise and so? I'm going to talk to him about what these these kids are asking as far as a career in sports and then of course we'll talk about some other things as well. Salva Berry will be here as he is each week's Albury joining us on sports byline for the collector's corner. He's a writer for the sports collectors. There's Digest Beckett publications and the Hockey News as well he also runs a website called Puck junk and finally Bruce Marshall Drops back around. He did Thursday the College Games. He'll come back around and take a look and what's going to happen this week in the NFL. Break it down and give you as predictions. We're ready to go good to have you with us on America's sports sports talk show. Guess what right now is the perfect time to get your house ready for the winter so you can sit back and enjoy the holidays home advisor could help get you started. homeadvisor matches you to the right fro for the job. In seconds you can read reviews and even book Appointments Online. homeadvisor can help with any home project project. Bigger small painting plumbing even remodeling. So why. WAIT GOUDA HOMEADVISOR DOT COM or download. The free APP to get started on your next project. How are you or someone you love? 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It legal marketing or administrative staffing. Count on Robert Half. We'll find you productive. Engaged employees chiefs learn more at Robert half dot com slash radio staples is more than a place. You go to make copies. It's where conversation with an associate sparked the idea for my business card to double coupon and it's where I go to reach. Potential customers with custom postcards staples can help make your big ideas bigger ideas and right now when you make a select print and marketing services purchase you receive twenty percent off your next order staples for your business. Printing and beyond in-store only ends eleven nine nineteen exclusions machines apply see staples dot com slash print. Twenty details this is America Sports Talk Show Sports Byline USA USA. Here's Ron time to check in as we do each week with Roy Eisenhart we call the segment an inside. Angola's Roy and I take a look at some of the interesting stories in sports and Jill down a little bit deeper trying to give you a different perspective on what's happening in sports and of course he's been a lawyer former president of the Oakland A.'s. When his family owned that team and now he teaches lawn sports at UC Berkeley? And of course he joins US each week at this time for inside Angola. No I don't think we had a chance to put a exclamation point on the baseball season in the world series. I've found that fascinating. I'm sure the people in New York. We're not too excited because it was Houston in Washington. But what was your read on it. I mean you're a guy that was in baseball. You know the insides and outs of the game. What did you think well sure that? TV stations would love to have the Yankees playing the dodgers something can every world series just because TV ratings. Didn't those major markets but I think what as fans we like to see is the richest get spread around and the nationals tells obviously haven't been there since nineteen twenty four or something like that so I thought that was a very nice touch and I think baseball will probably survive financially. And that's the way it goes it was Of course great that it went to seven even games A seven game series always makes it exciting and their TV ratings for the last game Prove that out Also was an interesting example of the fact that the biggest payrolls don't always win like Washington Houston. We're not actually exactly shabby. Maybe but they weren't up in the you know the top three or four of the team payrolls and it's always nice to see teams constructed around around players who can produce and not just around some superstars and then some villains right. What do you what do you think that the cachet of the world series has lost its luster? I think he can say the same thing for the All Star game the Major League Baseball all-star game. What's your read on it? Well I think the All Star game has lost. Its meaning once they brought about interleague play because the Idea idea used to be that once a season you get to see the best players in each league playing each other and and that was Kinda cool to do you and then you know you. Didn't you'd have the world series. Come along as well but now with the Interleague play the notion of national and American League thing each other has lost its gloss and so I think that has dumbed down the benefit of the All Star game as well plus I think they cheapen it with breath. The home run hitting contest which is a spurious event to just get more TV Revenues also. I see that there's a story I have here in front of me. The headline is Leagues Lowest. Score in fifteen years in terms of racial gender hiring and you know you ran a baseball spoke team and this is an issue that affects every professional organisation in sports and the story says. NFL received its lowest overall score and racial and gender hiring practices in fifteen years. According to a diversity report they institute for Diversity and Ethics in sports released its annual racial and gender report card card giving the NFL a bi racial hiring practices and a C. minus for gender hiring practices and this gave the NFL combined. B MINUS grade for for its overall score of seventy nine point. Three a notable decrease from its score of eighty one point six now I know that Gender Equity and and also racial equity is always a challenge for any organization. Not just sports. But when you were running the Oakland A.'s. How did you approach this well? Ah Very simple to approach it the right way. which is you simply pay attention to the need for diversification of among many Spectra Across your your administrative Australia staff now. Obviously it's Going to be more likely your manager and your coaches and so forth they're going to be male but that doesn't mean your front the Office people or your marketing people are Other keep positions. The organization can't be much more diversified right and so we simply said look. Let's make that a goal and it was very very simple to do. I think the problem we have is. There's there's always I mean we as a society have is. There's always been a kind of a male macho dominance around some of the more I say violent or or high contact sports like football and I think it's tougher for football to get the idea. Yeah that women are just as smart or maybe even smarter in many cases and can do things now to the. NFL's credit edit. They have been working on getting women referees and the NBA of course as women referees. Baseball's does not have women on Pires yet and I don't think think there's any defensible reason for that but does this something. We just have to keep working at we as a society and as we see our political leaders of more and more towards being women. I think it will trickle down to sports. But it's it's a long It's a long push entitled. Nine of course has helped a lot. We have about four and a half minutes left. And that's not enough time to talk about this. You just wrapped up your lawn on sports class at UC Berkeley and people take your class for a number of reasons. I'm sure but they're interested in maybe having a career in sports. Tell me a little bit about what you see from those that that go into a class like yours. Sure there. There are a lot of different reasons. People take it. It's it's not it's not a trade trade school course where you take it in order to get a job in sports someday. In fact I advise the students quite The other way around I said don't narrow yourself too much. Don't immediately try to go into the sports industry and get a job. Working as the triple assistant to legal counsel took a legal counsel for a team or something like that. Get a broad background. Get a broad experience in in life and in business and how human interact and in how human resources work and how people get motivated in organizations and then you can move into sports and make it your specialty if you decide. That's what you WANNA do but don't do it too early early because it will narrow you down too fast that there is no such thing in a technical sense of sports law there's a lot of legal doctrine that affects sports Just as the health industry the automotive industry or whatever so I encourage. He's a students to think very broadly. And maybe after five years or seven years of getting a broad experience then then plan on moving into a sports related job. If that's what you WanNa do interesting because you told me that when you were sitting in the president's Office of the Oakland A.'s. And running the team team you had two types of people that approached you about getting into sports. One were those that were young. And that's understandable and the other were those that were well you pick up the story. Well yes there were people who had served you know. I had a career whether it be accountant or an engineer. Some some fairly high level type of professional career and I get letters. Maybe one every two weeks saying you you know. I'm really tired of balancing somebody else's checkbook and I would like to come and work in baseball because I love baseball And I will do anything. I'll just pick up tells in the locker room because it will be fulfilling to me to be doing something I really love and I had a fairly standard answer to that and was keep your passion for sports a passion. Don't don't make it something where it becomes your job where you go there every day. Because you're GonNa find that picking up towels. A locker room is not going to before filling After about three or four days. And you're going to feel as though you're selling yourself short in terms of your ability to contribute to society so keep sports sports keep yourself as an individual motivated and productive. But don't try to compromise is your ability to make contributions with your notion. You would love to be around baseball players all the time. We only have forty five seconds left But when you think about the people that wanted to be in sports what do you think is the overriding Thing that they should have or be thinking about when it comes to following a field like that Well they have vertical. Be Aware that the Downs are much worse than That it seems who says Oh you know when you work for a team occasionally like this year the nationals or on a high because they were in the world series but next year they may finish in third place and you have to be prepared to deal with the downside of sports as well as the upside and it's very hard for people to adjust to that because it's you really do invest a lot of intellectual and most energy into how the team performs and it's it's easy to be a winner but it's very hard to learn how to deal with a loss season. That's one of the hardest. Well really thank you great insights this week on a couple of things take care of my friend. We'll talk to you next week or Roy Eisenhart again lawyer former president of the Oakland A.'s now teaches lawn sports at UC Berkeley and he joins US each week for a segment. We call inside angle. We've got you on America's sports talk show. Are you an active stock doc. Market investor. Will then you know these three key. Words buy sell hold. Those three magic words can make or lose you money in the stock market. What we can show you? A time-tested tool has been helping stock market. Investors succeed for over thirty years. It's called vector fast and amazing system designed designed to make smart investing easy. The vector vest system analyzes sorts and ranks over nineteen thousand stocks every day until she went to buy what to buy and when to sell any stock to maximize your profits in less than ten minutes a day. And if you call right now you can test drive or amazing. 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And he is a writer for Sports Collectors Digest Beckett publications and the hockey news and he also has run a website called Puck junk which focuses on hockey collectibles and culture and he was the hockey collectibles collectibles expert on Xm radio and he's also collected sports cards since nineteen eighty five. As I mentioned you write for the Hockey News and you have a wonderful wonderful article. I'll tell everybody about this. I was looking at it today. It's just fascinating so I like to write articles about You know hockey memorabilia but also hockey culture stuff like films and the movie from one thousand nine hundred nine street. LASCA is hitting its twentieth anniversary. Read this fall so I did a making of article about mystery Alaska. It's ten full pages in the new issue which is dated November twenty twenty fifth and. It's hitting newsstands. Now tell everybody what the story is here. So what I did was story of the filmer. The there destroy the article the film. Oh so the film is about A group of hockey players in a fictitious town called mystery Alaska and one of the people people who grew up in that town is like sports writer and he arranges this exhibition game between the The amateur hockey players Mystery Alaska and the New York Rangers because he claims that you know our guys are so good that they could. They could go head-to-head within NHL team. Because we're such good skaters because we're outside. We're skating eating all the time you know in the winter so That's what the film is about so it's basically about About an exhibition match between a the hockey players from a small town and a pro hockey Russell Crowe was in that movie and when I saw that he was going to be the the lead in it. I was a little bit surprised fries because he's from Australia. It's not like they play a lot of hockey down there. And he's a good actor. No doubt about that. I don't know how you take on a role like that. That because sports movies are difficult. Are they not sow because people who have either played it or watched it for a long period of time they know what's real and what's not bright right so one of the one of the things that they did. Well they do this with all sports movies as you know they find a stunt doubles or in this case they call them hockey doubles Job and the guy who doubled for Russell Crowe's name's Brad Turner. He had a long minor. Pro Career also played a few games of the New York Islanders. So Brad Turner was hired. Good as The assistant hockey director and he was also the hockey stunt double for Russell Crowe so he was teaching Russell. Crowe how to skate. And and some of the other actors how to skate and clerk including Burt Reynolds where it's just like one scene on ice skates One or two few scenes on ice skates but not a lot of like Ice Skating but Russell Crowe had to do a little bit of skating. There had to be some shots. We saw his face and where you know he was moving around on the ice. And and you said that while Russell Crowe did work very hard on his escape. This wasn't athletic. You know he even death let it. He was a strong athletic guy is just not a good skater than some of the other guys even talked about like passing the Puck to Russell Crowe dislike while longer just killing time and they pass the puck to try to get the PUCK and he'd fall down and But the upside is that those that they all had fun memories of the parties that throw ride ru during the production where after the film wrapped while he'd be like hey. I'm having a party at my house because he rented a house and and he's just like you know come on over and you know they talk about being up to like three in the morning king getting up at five in the morning to be on the set the next day although a pro and all the other principal actors and half the down the sets later so they they could stay up and drink but hockey guys had to be up early Yeah just shortly I found it fascinating mystery Alaska. They built a whole town. Did they. Not Yeah so they basically They basically filmed in ten more Alberta and Disney. This basically built a small town at the base of the mountain because didn't like the way it looked so wasn't extra shot in Alaska Shot in Alberta and as a result a lot of guys who played for the University of Calgary Hockey team ended up being in that film either at stunt doubles industry players were as rangers players in that film. I urge people build a check out sells Article it's an excellent one ten pages long as he said some great pictures as well. It's in the hockey news. Let's get onto memorabilia billion collecting it upper deck singles day promotion. Tell me about it so this weekend. Upper deck is doing something called singles day and singles as actually big big holiday in China. It's Kinda like they're black Friday and they so cards in China as well. So they're doing this thing called singles day promotion in the US and China well as far as our US Canada. As well as China. So as far as North America on Sunday November tenth. You can go to your local card shop who's participating tasting. Buy a pack of you. Spend ten dollars. You got a special pack of cards. It has some superstar players like Jordan or Wayne Gretzky cotton. David's pros be Patrick Kane Mostly hockey players a few not hockey players. Lebron James Serena Williams in there too so To twenty any cards shut. If you complete that set then starting on Monday November eleven you can actually their code on the back of the cards and you can redeem The codes is on the back of the cards and then like randomly been Something like card. That's autographed by a superstar or another set of cards or something like that and they have more information about that upper deck dot com slash singles. Day Yeah it sounds interesting also. I wondered when somebody was going to do this. One sow small company. Called Atlanta's sports is putting out a set of American Basketball Association trading cards. I'm a big Fan of the American Basketball Association. I was a young sportscaster when it started and I just wondered if somebody was going to get serious about set on those plays so yeah so there weren't any. Ada Cards made until the seventy one on seventy two seasons so as a result From sixty seven sixty eight to seventy seventy one there no. Aba Basketball Cards made so a lot of guys is who played those first couple of years but maybe never made it to the NBA or never played in the later years of the ABA didn't get any trading cards so what this company did and they're putting on one hundred sixty card set All the players every single player played in at least one. Aba Va game from the sixty seven. Sixty eight season now. What I found interesting about this actually talked with? She's really Nice I guess there was a gentleman by the name of Louis. Powell was drafted by the Anaheim team. But he never played because you got drafted by the military and was killed in Vietnam so they actually made a card of of Kim as well and included that in the set. So it's one hundred fifty nine years. Who played that season and then a card of the gentleman? Less Powell who was killed in action The cards will use paintings. So they're painted and like you know like illustrations like an illustration style whose you'll straight it as as if he were an ABA player Ebay has released its list of the best selling teams and bestselling players in its sports memorabilia. Category tell me about it so some of these I I found surprising and some of these. I didn't find surprising like they said So ebay from January to October their sales data for sports memorabilia The most in demand team and be a team Chicago Bulls. I'm not surprised because there's plenty of Mike Jordan stuff that's getting sold on Ebay cards urged jerseys whatever however the most popular player being sold abroad game. So there you go. The Brian is selling more stuff on your date in Jordan and yet the bills are the more popular teams on Ebay than any other dat. Then and it's Kinda like that throughout throughout the rest of them they're like you know in the NFL Dallas Cowboys most popular team as far as Ebay sales are concerned and yet Tom Brady is the most else talking. Their football athletes On as far as eating is is it only male athletes and their teams. Well here. They're just they're just they just released information on the The four Major League so as far as baseball goes the most popular team. No surprise New York Yankees. I mean for tons of reasons That we could talk about later. We'll talk to the player. My trout again probably no surprise there. NHL Most popular team. Boston Boston Bruins but as far as ebay sales go. Sidney Crosby is the most popular hockey player as far as the amount of hockey memorabilia being sold on ebay anything surprise you about the list. A little surprised actually. That wasn't the basketball players far sales because it's just such an iconic player But I can kinda understand how like a lot of like you're collectors and walk into players and you know there's the argument that Lebron is and the better basketball player. I would never take that position being from Chicago but I still find it surprising that the Brown edged out. MJ Okay as far as Memorabilia sales on Ebay if anybody wants to get a hold of you to talk about collecting and memorabilia. They do that. They can email me at s the at Hook junk dot com or they could buy on twitter at puck junk good job sal. We'll talk to you next week. Take care of my friend. Thank you ron again. Sal Berry joining us this Each week on the collector's corner. He's a writer for Sports Collectors Digest Beckett publications and also the hockey news and check out his story on on Mystery Alaska. That's on the hockey news. 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Just Twenty Five Ninety Nine O.. Reilly auto parts better parts better prices every day Auto parts this is America's sports talk show sports byline USA. Here's Ron Bar. NFL weekend is upon us and as he has for the last twenty eight years. Bruce Marshall the find senior writer for the gold. Well she joins us. And let's kick off Bruce with Kansas City against Tennessee. This'll be played at Tennessee. Who's going to be the quarterback for the chiefs? You think I bad. It's GonNa be a Patrick home so it sounds like we're getting close The the point start in Las Vegas has moved up some since the middle of the week suggested justice. I think he's going to be in there. I think Kansas City could win this game with Matt Moore though he's very serviceable he'd beat Minnesota. There are still all these weapons around them. So I got Williams overnight and working at Stanford last week is still tired. Kill they add the hunger that makes me feel. They witnessed game with with more. Sorry matters is in got quarterback at least against this though Tennessee very inconsistent. I explained the titans last week. Long gave the ball to Derrick Henry top offensive threat two times in the first half of that game go. I know I know. They're using vanderbilt playbook. I don't know what's going on here this Gary Schizo team. They have played a better faster pace and so Ryan Tannehill took over for Mary Order. Oh to quarterback but that was a big punch last week getting with that Carolina. They cannot outscore Kansas City even with Matt Moore in their thirty two seventeen chiefs. They wind up with the quarterback. Doc I'm Cindy you know you've got buffalo at six to going up against Cleveland at two and six. Why is buffalo an underdog in this game? Boy that tells me Iran I. There's a couple of reasons. One the buckle angle. I buffalo is six to five win. Though against teams that combined record of five and thirty seven seven it would be hard to to construct a schedule. It's using buffalo so the jets. The giants Bengals the Dolphins Redskins. They've got them all already already. Play them so that's helped in fact. They got whipped by the eagles a couple of weeks ago that creates some doubt about how good buffalo is But I remain perplexed the why hi. There is still some fascination with the Brown. This team has been so over hyped all year They're the biggest fossil on Cynthia comment. Ron the. The browns were unable even to beat Denver team. Starting a quarterback Brandon Allen would never played taking a regular season snap There's rumors that they clubhouse. House fracturing Freddie Kitchens is over matches head coach And he's also the play car they never should have put him in either of those roles surfing. Not both and I think they're gonNA make a change again at the end of the season. They've made those mistakes before. This is a situation that needs a an old school coach to feel like a lot of big personalities analogies in the clubhouse and that includes Baker Mayfield and we heard you've heard the clubhouse assertive but I'm really right now so added that buffalo is like the antithesis necessarily anti Cleveland. They just go about their business and they built the thing right not much drama. He's GonNa win. Twenty two seventeen bills take buffalo again on Sunday. It's GONNA be the battle of New York and it's not a very pretty one. The giants against the jets. These two teams combined are three and fourteen. So what happens. Wow wow well and you wonder if they should postpone this or cancelled entirely. Maybe nobody missed it but The jets are they continue to channel their rich rich Kotite era celts and plumbing new depths of an aptitude We're thinking that eventually casualty in this dumpster fire might be atoms as the head. Coach is looking more and more like you could be one and done. And what is alarming to to jet fans is that Sam Darnold seems different zero regrets. Now I know you know he had them on on his out of which I wonder if you sort of back so quick just personal but there because he couldn't even practice for a couple a couple of super model. These guys always like rush back. A good gauge is getting some of the blame for that Daniel Johns. It's been a little bit of radic too but he's made more he's made enough plays. The giants are actually in that Game Dallas till midway the fourth quarter the other night and They made more progress. I think than the jets this year. Twenty seven to twenty giants. They also have a letter to defensive. Tackle just traded from the jets. You know he'd like to be his old team as well you know. His health may be one question and that's problematical but I think the quote that was picked up in the Monday night game about him saying seeing ghosts in one of the game's really tells me more about you know how he feels and the experience experience level that he might have in the NFL. And and I really think. That's a big factor. Yeah I I I think maybe it was the ghost of Harry. wismer ritual that's franchise near the titans and they're laughing stock in the league and he's coming back to haunt them back. I know that was kind of an odd thing for Donald to say for sure. Let's take take a look at the Atlanta New Orleans game. We know the story with Atlanta. You're talking about a coach that will be gone. There's another one there at one and seven now and they take on New Orleans at seven and one one is a little surprised that Arthur blank didn't pull the the hit the eject button and Dan Clinton the bye week. That seemed a natural place to do it. now now and maybe maybe blanket thinking dissolved. NHL Clean instead of always. Fire the coaches in trouble by the Thanksgiving thanksgiving one. That I think he's he's GonNa give them one more chance to see me by. They can shake out of it. It would seem like these things should be better than it is. For whatever reason they're underachieving. The defense has been a real mess. And that I think is it's GonNa be Crimson doing hard because Quinn took over the defence again this year that was his role as coordinator for Seattle Superbowl. Defensor care before he took over in Atlanta that when he fired marquand manual he took over defense after last year but they have been worse. This year ended up at Ryan. We'll be back in the lineup here. But he has not been having a great year of self eight picks and seven starts and meanwhile the things just keep winning winning winning got drew brees back in before the biweekly and they look good. Thirty seven seventeen New Orleans. I didn't just watches on an Atlanta line. How long before coach before the Blank Hits Jack Button Dan Cleveland? I think it's coming quick. I think the question on the Baltimore at Cincinnati Cincinnati Game Is Baltimore coming costs You know with that wonderful win over the New England patriots and it wasn't a fluke win. I mean they just dominated them a lot of aspects specs of the game and Cincinnati. You just wonder if maybe Baltimore after that game will be a little bit flat and we'll open the door for Cincinnati because you and I both know Oh that you know these teams got enough talent that at some point they can come up even the worst team and bite you in the rear end rear end. So how do you see this one. Well Yeah I think that's a real l.. Concern for the Ravens Psychology. This and you're off the biggest win of the year and you've had a couple really good games or that Seattle game was really before that too and and then be patriots. It's like that But you wonder if they can go flat listen. Cincinnati played them pretty tough the first time back in early October as played the ravens tough in recent years. Now the difference here is the antidote bench though They're going with rookie quarterback out of an she stayed Ryan Finley Didn't even show that good in the preseason so ah the bengals that I saw ends dogs. I think runners quarterback their second right now they would have everyone pick in the draft and I want to and I think they wanna see what they've got insanely before they go and commit to one of these quarterbacks drafted first or second any other pick one of these days wherever to one of those guys and they wanna see what they got that in fact they you can't run the ball and AJ Greens probably out again. Fundamentally doesn't make a good case for for centuries so we're going to stick with that and Baltimore Twenty seven to thirteen but man you're right. It's a little scary with Paul. Yeah Carolina's an underdog against the Green Bay packers the packers. When I watched that game against the chargers I they just looked flat to me? Oh Gosh Yeah. They really were flat and They they just couldn't get anything going. They couldn't get off the field because Rivers is playing that ball control and you know Green Bay. Cut It pretty close on several occasions this year and had been escaping. And maybe. That's the wakeup call. The packers need or they're playing. They're playing above their heads. I it's a little of both and Carolina is now this trial team the rest of the CAM. Newton is injured surveys done for the year. If seen enough without anyway I think he was going to be the guy that was a big win last week against the titans after getting popped by the forty niners. They bounced back while McCaffrey's putting putting up. MVP like numbers. Also Wilson. I think are one to in any order right now. And this gives the panthers chance I mean only the forty niners really rip them here. The forty niners again. I don't think Green Bay due to compare or close to being Twenty four twenty three packers. We think the panthers are in this right until the finish and learn. You know when you talk about Detroit and Chicago. At the beginning of the season everybody thought that Chicago was on the way to the Super Bowl. And yet if you look at trubisky he he is not look particularly good. And then you take a look at the Detroit as well. They're playing pretty good football. So how do you see this one you're right about trubisky And there's people in Chicago who are really wondering if he should be the guy that bears commit to any further on this year he's not making progress And the GM Ryan Pace is hearing it from the fan base. It's one that's reminding him. Look pick this guy ahead of the Shawn Watson and ahead of Patrick metric for homes. And we're stuck with this guy and look what those other teams are doing with those guys. You made a mistake here. And he's not gonNA be able to get out of this because this just just isn't GonNa do it. I don't think about the only thing that's worked for the bears. This year has been rookie running back from Iowa state David Montgomery but other methods offense is broken the trike like find ways to lose I get the feeling sometimes it's alliance played northwestern it would come down to the last five minutes but I think they can maybe get this game. 'cause Stafford's put up much better numbers than not trubisky and The lions could move the football. There's just not that consistently twenty-three Seventeen Detroit. I think they survive this clashing Martian Barnes and I'm finding ways to lose games so this is sort of a lesser of two evils and Missile Miami. Looking for their second win of the season they'll be taking on Indianapolis hapless which has a chance with a victory to move to six and three on the year. So what happens yeah. We'll see if it's GONNA play Brian. Hoyer might be in their quarterback after he went in for an injured eighty percent last week is a serviceable backup. And he did go through. T- passes also accept the last week or Damp aside against Pittsburgh against make Patrick. Who by the way used to play on the dolphins? Miami's interesting here. I think they've been rated by a lot of people. Those first couple of games were so horrific against Baltimore. All the more in New England. Look like this is the worst. NFL history got two hundred and do two ten. They haven't played that bad. Since in the last month I mean they'd given Pittsburgh a fight on the road. Are they giving buffalo and fight on the road. They certainly could have won that game against the Redskins they whip the jets. And this is all coinciding with Ryan Fitzpatrick quarterback at least the team. A sort of rallied around him now. He's always. There's a five intersection game. Always looking around the corner with him but in these. Everything's closed and I I don't know they could blow it. Anybody Buddy right now and this one might be kind of competitive twenty six nineteen colts. I think they survive it but by any type at the Lucas oil. Rams go on the road to take on the Pittsburgh Berg steelers Ryan. I'm GonNa tell you right now. At Pittsburgh I think is going to make the playoffs. Maybe not win the AFC north. They got a lot of ground to make up on the Ravens. There's there's a wild card I think they can make it. I think my Thomas done a splendid job with the injuries here and this team has played pretty darn well every week since Big Ben went out. Amazing Rudolph is good enough at quarterback and they pulled one out against the colts. Last week They might get James. cornerback running back here. They've they've been dealing with injuries and hang in there. The defense has forced eighteen. Turnovers already run. That's four more than they forced the last season give Devon Bush looking for Michigan Linebacker linebacker credit and that makes us. It's Patrick mentioned a minute ago in the secondary on the corner over from the dolphins. I'm not sure about the rams coming in here. They've had the week off after the Cincinnati game. They haven't looked quite as as a year ago and Pittsburgh's defense is GonNa make the rams try to do something and establish our ground game here to try to slow down at Pittsburgh glass rich. Get the Jared Goff. I think it's a mild upset about to happen. Pittsburgh twenty four nineteen. I like what the steelers are doing. And don't don't be surprised if game and on Sunday night briefly tell me about Minnesota and Dallas Kirk cousins bad habits or at least the Vikings couldn't protect them. Well we see what happens. Happened when he's under Duress Gallup fires on all cylinders at home often here in Arlington. And I think they're going to have trouble keeping pace thirty one twenty three Dallas Dallas. It's GonNa be quite a raised with the eagles. NFC East so they got to keep winning. We think they do at Sunday night. Okay you've got about a minute to talk about the Monday night game. This one should be a dandy as you've got Seattle on the road to take on the undefeated forty niners in San Francisco. Yeah I think the at all the good that to play everybody close at least Easter. I mean they For Russell Wilson's got a great record as an underdog one to four on the road this year so they can play away. Ah San Francisco's been a great story line here. And it's the winning the defense's it's still upgraded this year but Russell Wilson is the great equalizer. Five Martini asked last week. Twenty two on the season making MVP case for himself Seattle's one of the last one hundred series now. Several hundred teams were not that good but Seattle has had success down here and Levi's before and I think they can do it. Maybe even in this incredible run for the forty niners Monday night. That's how we picked at twenty eight twenty four seahawks Monday upset. You know I liked that. Pick I think you're absolutely right about it when he got this week for all our sports byline. USA Listeners. You're on banks. We got boy basketball season this year. Every Thursday we'd get the basketball issue done. NBN College hoops. It's already begun. So here we go and of course the NFL concert. It's really exciting here in November so so check us out online Thursday for basketball Monday for football. It's a good seat. Dot Com picks up there as well as big as insider in Don Dot Com. Okay Bruce I enjoy the games this weekend and we'll check in with your next weekend. Okay Ron pick her Bruce Marshall find senior writer the gold. She'd be sure to check out the gold sheet. It's an excellent publication application and there's some real feature articles in their. Bruce writes that. I think you'll find interesting. He comes by on Thursdays. Takes a look at the key. College Football Games breaks it down for Korea and then comes back by. Does that certainly on Fridays to do the same thing in the NFL we continue with you and sports. byline you remember in the beginning when you first started to build a life for you and your family you never imagined it would come to this instead of living your dreams. You're living with debt in fact it's smothering you now. There's a way you can take back control with one. Simple call if you owe ten thousand dollars or more in credit the card debt you qualify to receive a free no obligation consultation on how to get rid of that debt for good call the debt helpline. Now we work on your behalf. We have to reduce your debt. We specialize in credit cards retail store cards and medical bills. 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So now's the perfect time. This may be a limited limited time offer to the first one hundred people that call right now so please save money and call now eight hundred four seven seven one one three eight hundred four seven seven one one three eight hundred four seven seven one one three. That's eight hundred four seven. Oh seventy one on thirteen. Hi I'm Dr Robert Clapper Chief of Orthopedic Surgery at Cedars Sinai Medical Group in Los Angeles California dedicated to your health. Your life and your sports parts as a weekend warrior you know about sports injuries and pain exercises important element and keeping your body's core in good shape to minimize sports injuries. But when you are in pain there is one product that I recommend to my patients and that is Blue Gel. Blue consists of a proprietary formula developed specifically for the treatment of inflammation and general muscle aches constrains. I recommend Blue Goo for my patients coping with hip and knee pain before surgery especially bursitis and tendinitis give Lugo. Try Call one eight. Three three zero zero zero one two three and you'll receive a one week supply of blue absolutely free the makers of Blue Goo or even paying the shipping. The number again is one eight. Eight eight three three breezy rose zero one two three if you want more information on blue visit online at www dot google dot com now available at select the big five stores near you. Oh this is America's sports talk show sports byline USA. Here's Rhonda that's going to wrap up this hour of sports byline as he does each week. Bruce Marshall Senior writer for the goal she dropped by took a look at the key games coming up in the. NFL broke it down for you and gave you is predictions also sow berry was here. Sal Of course joins us on sports byline byline for the segment. We call the collector's corner brighter. For Sports Collectors Digest Beckett publications and the Hockey News and if you're into sports collectibles or collections elections. All you have to do is check in with him. Very knowledgeable guy also runs a website called puck junk and he wrote an article for the hockey news. I hope you'll check it out. It's called Mystery Alaskan the movie with Russell Crowe and Roy Eisenhart was here as well for the segment. We call inside angle. I'm Ron Bar. Stick around around. We got more coming your way. We'll talk some more football next hour with Gary Plummer as we continue on America's sports talk show. My name is Pedro girlfriend. Has I am the reigning the defending the undisputed heavyweight champion in the radio. We're talking Combat Sports Saturdays and Sundays. Eleven time join me for ring. Talk live worldwide. Sports byline You're listening to the sports byline. You're listening to heartland newsfeed radio network live twenty four seven at heartland newsfeed dot com. This stream is supported by advertisers and contributions nations Bhai follow us on facebook twitter and instagram. This is the liberty your daily source for Liberty News and activists updates produced in partnership with as news and listeners. Like Mike You Online at Liberty Dot News Dot News. I'm mcmurray with your latest edition of the Liberty Golden Trading at one thousand four hundred sixty eight dollars dollars silver at seventeen dollars and eleven cents and Bitcoin is trading around nine thousand one hundred seventy nine dollars. Today's prices are brought to you by Ino- scale. I'll take off with managed cloud looking for a safe secure way to store your important files online. Let Enos Gail handled for you. Their high availability cloud servers are the perfect solution for clients needing one or more secure scalable servers with built in hardware bell overprotection for details see them online hidden no scale dot net in the news on Tuesday Project Veritas exposed video of ABC's. Amy Robot admitting the Disney Network had witnessed testimony pertaining chaining to the Jeffrey Epstein Scandal. Three years ago but refused to air it excuses range from being threatened. A million different ways by the Palace after the Royal Family Somehow got wind that the network allegations against Prince Andrew to affair that. ABC May no longer be able to interview kate and will as the revelations is at eight major US network hit potential evidence and information related to one of the most shocking scandals in history. It has now come out that the person responsible for the leak has has been fired. The mind lease reports that not only has no one responsible for bearing the incredibly important story been fired held accountable punish or publicly named at entirely different mainstream network has now fired the employees that formerly worked for ABC News the Liberty being sponsored in part by brave botanical goals high quality creative in CD at reasonable prices with excellent customer service. Ray Botanical is active stoned and mission driven and believes so strongly the power of them. They're giving it away for free. Just go to free ounce of create them dot com for a free crate. Delivered to your door just pay shipping. That's free trade 'EM DOT com. This is the latest edition of the Liberty. beat find US online at liberty. Beat DOT News Dot News. Your news now continues continues. The intercepts Glenn Greenwald was assaulted during a lie. Broadcast Thursday by a rightwing Brazilian journalist and defender of the country's far-right precedent Bolsonaro Aura Greenwald. Who is reporting this year has exposed unethical and possibly criminal behavior bibles and Oro and his government repeatedly called journalists and Columnists Agusto Nunez newness a coward during a segment on Alvin Pan News? One of Brazil's largest right-wing radio and youtube outlets in a tweet ahead of his appearance Greenwald said he had many questions for newness who suggested in September that a juvenile judge should investigate Greenwald and has spent Brazilian lawmaker David Miranda for neglecting. Electing their adopted Children Greenwald during the program said that what Nunez did was quote the ugliest and dirtiest thing. I've ever seen in my career career. As a journalist and out to former twitter employees have been charged with spying for Saudi Arabia. In a case. Okay so the Washington Post said quote raises concerns about the ability of Silicon Valley to protect the private information of dissidents and other users from repressive governments and quote the might unleash reports a complaint unsealed Wednesday in US District Court in San Francisco detailed a coordinated effort by Saudi officials to recruit employees. He's at the social media giant to look up. The private data of thousands of twitter accounts the accounts included those popular journalists with more than one million followers and other prominent government critics. The charges come one day after the arrest of one of the former twitter employees a US citizen who is alleged to have spied on the accounts a free users including one who's posed discuss the inner workings of the Saudi leadership on behalf of the government in Riyadh the second former employees a a Saudi citizen was accused of accessing the personal information of more than six thousand twitter accounts in two thousand fifteen support for the liberty. We comes from the conscious resistance network featuring videos news reports articles from a spiritual anarchist perspective. Experience the conscious resistance at the conscious resistance DOT COM. How would you like to have your business featured on the liberty you can just send an email to liberty at dot news for details? This is the liberty be produced in partnership with. SNL As news and listeners like you the liberty is online at liberty beat Dot News Dot News. I'm McMurdo reporting for the Liberty. 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And here's host Ron Bucks and wherever you might be across the country and around the world. I'm Ron bar good to have you with us for this edition sports byline. I've been saying that for a long time first time. I said it was back in October. Nineteen one thousand nine hundred ninety eight and now we're in our fourth decade of being a national International Sports Talk Radio Network or more than radio because technology certainly has advanced. You can hear the programming for the network twenty four hours a day and you can hear that on Sirius. XM Satellite Radio and of course one of the things. I'm particularly really proud of is that were heard worldwide on the American forces network some five hundred stations in one hundred and seventy seven countries. So if you find yourself traveling alling around the world you could probably find some where we have one hundred thousand Watt Station Frankfurt Germany that covers all of Western Europe so you can check Akkas out there and I understand that some of the cruise ships around the world carry us on their audio system. So check us out there as well. I have known on the gentleman that's in our studios for a long long time and I certainly respect him. Because if you take a look at athletes especially those that play football because it's such a violent business slash sport you just admire when anybody is able to play double digit years in professional football and then you add onto that that they played it in high. Hi School maybe Pop Warner and then in college before they went on to professional football and Gary plummer is a former NFL linebacker. He played twelve seasons eight. San San Diego four with the forty niners and he's kind of a rags to riches story he was undrafted after playing college ball at the University of California and after going undrafted drafted he finally joined pro football with the Oakland invaders of the old. USFL and he played in the USFL championship game and then after the USFL folded in nineteen eighty five. He was signed by the San Diego. chargers became a starter during his first season with the chargers and then started one hundred six that one hundred nineteen games. During the eight seasons he played there and of course in nineteen ninety eight. He became the forty niners broadcaster and that was after he had played in one thousand nine hundred ninety five with the San Francisco Forty niners and he helped them win Super Bowl number twenty nine and he was a teammate of linebacker. Junior CEO and you know the story there and we'll talk about the concussion issue because Gary can talk about it firsthand. 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Potential customers with custom postcards staples can help make your big ideas the bigger ideas and right now. When you make select print and marketing services purchase receive twenty percents off your next order staples for your business? Printing and beyond in-store only only ends eleven nine thousand nine exclusions apply staples dot com slash train twenty for details. This is America's sports talk show Sports Sports Byline USA. Here's Ron Bar Airy plummer joins us on sports byline former NFL linebacker linebacker. Who played twelve seasons with San Diego? Four with the San Francisco. Forty niners worry want a super bowl championship and he went undrafted after playing his college ball. All had county grew up in the San Francisco Bay. Take me back to growing up in this area. What was your lifelike early on? Oh we didn't have much money but very happy. He had eight children in a combined family. It was great. You Know Fremont I think twenty five thousand people so at that time and just just like your typical kid. They wanted to grow up and play professional football For some reason colleges didn't want me out of high school went to a great high school mission. High School won the North Coast Section at that time as far as far as you could go undefeated team and for for some reason. Even though as all state I didn't get a scholarship run because I was five eleven hundred eighty-one pounds soaking wet with rocks in my pocket so I went to a junior college alone junior college Did pretty well. There earned allstate again and started getting recruited thinking again. This is the greatest thing ever. My parents have no money but I'm going to get a free scholarship to play football and the one that I really zoomed in on with Stanford their defensive offensive coordinator was calling every week sending letters and then he finally came to a lonely college to give me my scholarship. So I'm sitting in my coaches office. Mike Allen and in walks the defensive coordinator and he looks at me. He said you're Gary Plummer at this time I'd grown roane though I was up to six foot tall now on and two hundred and five pounds but about four percent body fat skinny little kid and he looks at me. He's like you. You can't play in the PAC ten and literally turned around and walked out allow actually laughed in my face and said he that I couldn't play in the PAC PAC ten and so I quit. I mean I literally just I quit school I I wandered around. I didn't know what the heck to do and this junior college. College coach of mine kept telling me Gary you are not going to quit football and I said I'm done coach Cowan. I'm I'll never play again and it was about three months later. He told me that I needed to roll back in school and get into the wrestling program. Mike I've never wrestled my life. He said doesn't matter. Let's go. I need a heavyweight. Wait so I did and it just kind of got my juices flowing again. I started working out for the first time in my life. I took a class in nutrition and suddenly I grew Ron. You're not gonNA believe this is pre steroid days For for anyone. I guess unless. You're a bodybuilder. I grew two inches. Che's and gain twenty eight pounds in nine months because I I started working at a grocery store and not one of my proudest brought us moments but I started taking stuff off the shelf. I would eat nuts. I would you know those roasted chickens. I take it in the back room and mow it down so I was getting protein protein for the first time in my life this poor kid from Fremont and I started lifting for the first time in my life so at that point I said you know what would be. The best thing could possibly do. Walk on a cow and go kick that dude's ass at Stanford so I did and It was it was crazy. I walked on and they had about twenty eight linebackers including Ron Rivera. Who was the head coach Carolina and a bunch of good players and so I was there for three days and they said we need to move you to nose tackle Bron? I was six to who twenty-eight they're gonNA move me to nose tackle. I was too small to be a linebacker my whole life and now they're gonNA move me so they did at that point. It was the it was when I finally recognized. That intensity could change your game. I was so angry that I lined up across from this guy I and I literally just exploded into him. I knocked him off the ground onto his back ran over the top of him and the coach that was pretending to be the quarterback. I ran over him too and everybody Oud an audit and I knew from that moment forward. I'm going to manufacture intensity on every play. I'm going to play with anger. I'm going to be aggressive. Best thing that ever happened to me. It's interesting you said. Even as a child you wanted to play in the national football league but that was a different different time. I'm sure those were dreamlike situations now. I think kids look upon it as a way to get out of a certain situation or it's the only way they can make money honey. What was the motivation for you? When you were young? Why wanting to be a football player so I started reading I was told that we had a about Outta twenty-five percent F. A. American Indian heritage in my family turns out after doing twenty three and me recently that I'm not yeah but The first book report ever did when I was a kid was on the great American Indian Jim Thorpe and so that was the first one and then I just thought this is amazing. Book Disguise Inspirational. And so after that. I just have to reading books on anyone from Jackie Robinson into You know Brooks Robinson. It didn't matter. I just loved sports and almost always it seemed like the guy. I overcame adversity to get there. So that's why I wanted to play sports gary when I look back on your life and you've already touched on. It is the fact that you've always been an underdog you know you got no scholarship. Scholarship offers for college football. You went undrafted in the national football and I believe if you reflect back. I think you probably are glad that your life went down that path. Ask that way. So that you could be motivated in better-focused you said it perfectly and I speak to juvenile detention facilities frequently and this is is the story that I tell them about overcoming adversity that I believe we shouldn't be judged on what kind of car we drive. What kind of home we live in? We should be judged edged on how we handle the diversity because all of us in our lives are going to face adversity the difference to me between somebody successful and somebody not is how you handle that that adversity and that takes me to the next segment after playing for the chargers forever and each year getting a little bit bigger a little bit stronger a little bit faster. I got too old. I was thirty four years old and I'm lifting in the weight room with junior sow and the general manager came in and he starts negotiating my contract. And Tell Me Okay you. I had a really good year last year. But you're getting old at thirty four so we'll pay you the same amount next year and then reduce it in fifty percent the year. After that Ron I remember it like it was yesterday. I heard a hundred and thirty pound dumbbells doing incline bench press. The Guy was standing about ten feet away from me. I threw them right at the dude and I missed him by about six inches. Probably fortunately for me but I never went back to the charger facility again. You know the labeling that goes on in life life but particularly in sports it's a forty time it's how big you are. What your grades? Who the competition you went up against? I don't know why that is so important. Yeah I mean because many times it has been I think Jerry Rice coming out. You know the little school in Mississippi Valley Mississippi Valley and yet look at the career career that he had is that the mistake they make in sports in particularly in football. There's no measurable for Somebody's heart and and I think that it is so it's why I tell that story to these kids when I go speak to them whether it's at a regular high school or juvenile and all detention facility. Because I think we're all told everybody in our life have been told either. You're not big enough if you're not tall enough you're not smart enough. You're not good looking enough. It just depends It's up to you to prove that person you can either accept what this person has told you or or proven wrong. It's a great motivator for people and at that point I talked to Lee Steinberg and I said we need to find a place for me to go play football and I got a trial with the forty niners so I went up there when it was supposed to be this little thing that was going to take about ten minutes. Forty five minutes later. There's ten then coaches there's twenty scouts and people from the front office and they said okay. You know you're done with the Trad. Go Up and see coach Siefert Britain his office and I walk into his office Ron and he reaches out his hand and he says you might not be able to play in the PAC ten but you can play for the San Francisco Disco 49ers same guy that told me whatever was thirteen. Fourteen years earlier that century. We only have one minute before you have to break. What is it about what the forty niners were doing at that time? That really made them different from anybody else in the NFL. Eddie Barlow in what way I could talk for the next two hours about Eddie but you truly felt like you were family very quickly before we go to break I remember after signing signing with the forty niners there was a bouquet of flowers about half the size of your studio for my wife welcoming her to the organization nobody in the Charter Organization Organization even knew her name when we were there for eight years and then I would I saw Eddie a month after signing and he walked up shook shook my hand said Gary how are you. How's your wife and how the kids what Fit Alex? Spanos never knew my name. In eight years I led the team team in tackles about five of those eight years. So that's that was the biggest difference. Yeah he personalized everything. I know exactly what you mean. Very interesting insightful conversation with Gary Reply Mer former NFL linebacker twelve seasons in the league. Eight with San Diego four with the niners also after he was undrafted he went to the USFL. He was in their championship ship game. He played with the Oakland invaders. We'll talk about that aspect of his life but when we come back we're GONNA take an inside look at college sports because he was recently on a panel talking talking about whether athletes should be paid or not. We'll talk about that as we continue across the country and around the world. We've got Joan sports byline. Are you an active stock. Market investor. Will then you know these three key words by cell hold. Those three magic words can make or lose you money money in the stock market. What are we can show you a time-tested tool that's been helping stock market? Investors succeed for over thirty years. It's called vector vest best and amazing system designed to make smart investing easy. The vector system analyzes sorts ranks over nineteen thousand stocks every day. 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For twelve seasons and again he played his college ball at the end at cow and while he was undrafted by the National Football League he was signed on in the US NFL by the Oakland invaders played in the US F. L. Championship game. You were recently involved in a situation down in. Where was it Los Angeles San High Anaheim and it was talking about the situation with college? Sports Tell me what that was about. It was a panel for the Ninth Circuit Judicial Conference Each year they just have a number of different people that come men Just for discussions for some of these guys that are obviously making decisions to hear differing opinions so there were six of us three four and and three against pain college athletes and then it was just on the safety of college sports concussions more than anything else and I was definitely vehemently opposed to paying college athletes because we touched on it before. How the versity that I went through? I didn't even talk about the financial financial adversity of having to work two jobs to save enough money to walk on cal and then have to continue to work while I was playing football and trying to compete in the classroom classroom to this day one of the toughest things that I've ever done in my life But it was something that I could draw upon many times throughout my nfl career. Look this is nothing. This is just football. You don't have to work and you don't have to go to school at the same time so for me. It was a a way that I was able to build character. Let's talk about the status of Sports College Sports. I'm talking about Putting aside whether we should pay athletes or not we hear about what happened. with the women gymnastics Athletes we hear about these things. We hear about scandals at North Carolina. I mean all of just what needs to be done if anything can be done about. What's happening in college athletics? Oh my goodness I if it's policing and I would say clearly there. There's a huge pool of money. So if we're not gonNA pay the college athletes I would say doing more behind the scenes in terms TMZ of security. And if you're not GonNa pay college athletes Take care of them so that they can graduate. Get them tutoring more more Get them involved. Make minimum standards so they have to stay eligible As far as the things that have happened with women women's gymnastics. I it's I don't know There should be some laws that are written that a doctor of physician team physician. Anything can't can't be with especially somebody of the opposite. Sex can't be with these young women young vulnerable women alone It's pretty simple. Yeah I think if you take a look at the Catholic Church and what has happened there as well. That's perfectly another example of this sort of thing and times have changed. I think all of a sudden what happened. Maybe thirty or forty years ago is coming to light right now and. I don't know that there's an answer. I don't think it should go unpunished. Let me put it that way but I think that followed sports. They have have to take a look at it and say what do we do to make it safer physically and emotionally for athletes. All students no matter whether they're an athlete or not and and I'm just wondering Gary When you look back on your college career and think about what you had to go through what was the single most difficult moment for you? Well it back then. concussions were a badge of honor You Got Your Bell Rung and much like we hear some guys fighting to get back into games. Now they're they're. That's exactly what we did in college but now because it's been legislated in the pros that it's an independent and didn't Dr That's that's doing the assessments in that they have to be taken into locker room for those assessments. There is no choice for you to tell the a doctor to pound salt and put your helmet on and just run back onto the field so there are ways to do it. There's ways to legislate anything that you want. And I I. I believe that they can make the game safer in college. The game safer professionally there are You know they've already done it by legislating the game in terms of rules they can also do it. Putting accelerometers and helmets. Those are wireless that they can see on the sideline what what kind of G. Forces they're suffering. It's the way with spend throughout history when there's a problem we're going to find a solution or a lot of smart people in this country. They'll they'll find a way to fix it you G- went undrafted in the NFL. So you sign on with the USFL or did that did that crush you in any particular way because that was the measure is your professional football. Absolutely not I never planned on at some point Ronn when when people were turning me down and tell me I was too small I gave up on on that dream of playing professional football. I just wanted to get an education. That's why I went to cal and so the USA failure and pay me twenty five thousand thousand dollars. Yes I'll do it and it for me. It was just trying out. I'll never forget. It were twenty-six linebackers. I was probably twenty seventh on the depth chart. That's how bad it was was when they told me I made the team it was. It was unbelievable but what I remember most about that league. Ron Is that guys that were there for the most post part either. Weren't good enough to play in the NFL or they'd already been cut by an NFL team and the enthusiasm. The intensity was unbelievable table. My first year with the chargers I was. I was looking around like you guys have no idea you should have played in the NF and the USFL. Those guys were intense. I mean every once in a while in training camp in the USA fell F- football play would break out amongst the brawl because we had scrimmages every day. There were four teams down there in Arizona. I can't remember them all. But I know that the Arizona Wrangler and the Denver Gold and somebody else and we would scrimmage three days a week and a scrimmages like a game. You WanNa talk. I mean those are concussion after concussion happening in practice so It was it was amazing to go to the NFL. Afterwards I thought I'd died and gone to heaven. What was the early days of the USFL? Like because I've I've heard from the guys that were in the AFL on those early days especially the New York jets where they would get paid and they would go in their uniform practice uniform to the bank and stand in line because they weren't sure that their checks were actually going to be any good. I've heard just great wars and we were so fortunate with the Oakland Invaders Tad toby was our owner and he never never missed a payroll but we did fly when we had merged with the Michigan Panthers and all those guys Bobby bare and Carter of a wide receiver Great team we were. I think we were something like fifteen in one we played eighteen games. Seasons in the USA fell we were going down to play the sorry San Antonio gunslingers and they hadn't been paid in six weeks so they decided forty five minutes before the game they were telling the coaches and and the owners were not playing so guys from their team and from the invaders were sitting in the stands before the game forty five minutes before drinking beer and then suddenly like fifteen minutes before game time. They showed up with certify checks. Clint merchant I think was the owner of the team and all of a sudden. These guys were geeked. They were jacked. And we played the Game Ron. They were kicking our butts until a last minute fourth fourth and eighteen yard catch by Anthony Carter for us to win the game. We were getting beat by the worst team in the league. Their story after story we we. We do a lot of charity. Events with Steve Young and he tells stories about Literally the bus driver stopping in a parking lot halfway from where their practice just facility was and where they stayed in some fleabag bag motel and said I'm not going a one inch further until I get paid. Steve Young had to get out of the bus. Go to an ATM. Get Six hundred bucks and pay the driver in order to get back to the hotel. It was crazy and but it it built character it it was fun it was intense and it was built with a ton of guys that just loved playing the game. That might be the big shocker in the NFL there are a lot of guys is even to this day. That don't play for the love of the game in the USFL. I would say ninety five percent of the guys loved football. We got about ninety seconds. Laughed laughed about. I hear the same thing about the AFL. And I think that has been lost. Is that because of the money factor in professional football absolutely. I was recently up there in Seattle Helping Hoping Kenny Norton. WHO's now they're defensive coordinator former teammate? he just wanted me to a observe things and I asked him what the biggest difference was. He said you know we we you and I and Lee Woodall and a bunch of guys would stay after practice and we'd watch film together said these guys. The car is running and before practices this is even over and they are sprint. They don't even take a shower they just sprint to their car and get out of there so the Camaraderie isn't there and he said that's the biggest difference difference in today's game and it's because of the money has it hurt the quality of football. Well I I think that as he said there are better athletes today Eh. But they don't know the game as well because the dedication and commitment of a jury rice of a Ken Norton Of Junior CEO just isn't there and I think it's kind of I don't even know who. What were you use to describe this if you think about professional football today? It wasn't like the practices of the old days where you guys were out there on the field for a long time. It's it's Boop boop boop boop boop absolutely everything is shortened up and it's for the safety of these players and that's all regulated by the NFL Players Association now. There used to be two practices. They they're in training camp right now. Too Padded Practices Day. Now they can't ever have more than one one each day and I think it's never more than two days in a row. We're come back on the other side when we do with Gary Plummer linebacker in the NFL. For Twelve seasons eighth was San Sandiego. Four with the niners will talk about his. NFL career with not only San Diego Friendship with junior CEO and championship with the niners. We continue with more of you and sports byline Mike. The house coming along needs a ton of work. The pipes are leaking. Needs a new roof. The just broke. I just don't have time. They do it all myself. You know anyone just ask homeadvisor they match you with the best local pros for any home project cool. Yeah you can read. Reviews and book appointments is online. What's it cost? Actually homeadvisor is always free to use. Ice I'll check it out. Go to homeadvisor DOT COM or download the free APP right now. The Home Depot makes replacing your old carpet easy with more styles and colors to choose from. There's no better time to buy with free installation on any. He covered purchase of four hundred ninety nine dollars more all by licensed local pros back for life. Today's the day for doing and saving with free carpet installation only at the home depot. 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Well Ron Lynn Who was the defensive coordinator Nater with With cow he then went to the Oakland invaders and then when the when Donald Trump came along and he took over the New Jersey the generals and wanted to go head to head with the NFL. Obviously that didn't end up. What doing didn't end up working now? Ron signed with the San Diego chargers that was a crazy time. Ron Because I can remember I wasn't out of my contract yet it They wouldn't let us out of our contracts until whatever the date was and the date was exactly nine days before the. NFL season started. So I was sitting at practice for three weeks waiting for them to make that decision. And I still talk to Billy Ray Smith to this day and other guys that saw all this person and somebody finally figured out who I was. And they're like. Oh that's Ron Lens boy from the Oakland invaders and they they hated my guts. Because here I am. They know I'm going to make the team and I have in practice. They're out there working out twice a day and here's this re toed sloth just just sitting in the stands watching. So that's how I ended up there with Ron Lynn and He he told me Gary you're not starting the first two games because that's GONNA make the real bad situation for you so I ended up starting now after that it by third game of the season and went on to lead the team in tackles also. I think most people know you had a very very close relationship with junior sale the hall of fame linebacker and I know his death upset. You a great deal but when you think back have you been able to put it in its proper perspective. Well first of all I'm I'm great for To junior for so many things but first and foremost it clearly he was hurting anyone. That Judd's judges somebody that commits suicide. You know you have to walk in their shoes and he was obviously hurting. I'm I'm so grateful that he didn't take anyone with him Because he was he was clearly hurting at that time I guess I'm I'm most grateful to what he did in terms of the NFL and getting this concussion settlement we saw how many guys from the Pittsburgh steelers were having problems and committed. Suicide and other guys is Dave doers. And it didn't change anything. It had to happen with a hall of fame player caliber. Light Junior say out to get the NFL to finally finally do something about it and then personally. I'm so grateful for it because my wife Corey Came home from work that day and I I was still sitting on the recumbent bike after about three hours of watching the coverage on the local news crime. I'd been crying for three straight hours and you know now. She was really worried about me. Because I hadn't slept basically for about ten or twelve years at a headache. That felt like somebody. WHO's driving a steel a rod through my head for about twelve to fifteen years? She said it's time you need to go see a counselor and I did and it changed my life. I was diagnosed with the early stages of dementia about three and a half years ago. And I literally how. How timely just got my diagnosis back from the NFL? On those baps tests and it says shows no sign of cognitive decline. So what was a diagnosis of the early stages of dementia. I feel like I'm I'm probably fifty to seventy five percent better three years later. And that's because of junior and And I'll be grateful forever because of that. What was the essence essence of his success enthusiasm infectious enthusiasm? And Ron. I'm telling you I am also grateful to junior. Because was his first year was my ninth year and you know if this a difficult game to the average three and a half years for a reason and it isn't just because of injuries. It's because it's just it's so taxed and taxed scene and and mentally. You just can't do it. He came in and and I'm telling you that guy was like the Tasmanian Devil. He practiced as hard as he played. And before. That you guys kind of It was called hold. The brother-in-law technique read is Kinda like didn't practice hard against him. Because you don't WanNa make him look bad. Of course that means you're not practicing that hard yourself junior came in and you better play at one hundred percent on every down or you're going to get your block knocked off. And he talked more trash Ron and it. It was so fun we would be in practice. And he's talking smack to the coaches to the player across from him and that was infectious and what I noticed when he did that. I started doing it and it became fun and instead of dreading going to practice I was excited about it and not only that. I would workout with junior sale before practice in the weight room. And I'm like dude. What do you mean workout before practice? He said Yeah. Because it makes you. It's more like Game Day. Then because you're already fatigued and then you go out there and practice now on Game Day you're not lifting weights before game day. You're better prepared. And you know what he was right. It was amazing so I believe junior sale helped extend my career. From ten years to fifteen you eventually became a free agent agent signed on with the San Francisco Forty niners in one thousand nine hundred ninety five and that was a year which they they added some significant free agent signings Diaz Sanders a couple. Oh guys like that and everything when you took a look at that team strictly from professional looking at professional and talent wise. What did you see? It was amazing so I was the first one that signed the next guy after me and I was so grateful and it's probably why Kenyon I got so close. Was Kenny Norton. Because they kept talking about. You know we've got this great offense number one in the NFL and you're going to change things on Defense Force. That was a lot of pressure and when Kennedy came on that was a bond for us. And then you see dion get signed and the thing that impressed me the most about dion is everybody talks about what an amazing talent want he is and was but that guy worked so hard he was the first guy ever saw a portable video. Eight camera he. He just carried around with him any watched place. He was a student of the game. He knew the game as well as any. DB I'd ever played with up to that point so the talent excellent level was just amazing on defense of mazing on offense and It was the expectation. Was If you don't come back with a super bowl trophy than your failure. The expectations aren't like that in San Diego. The expectations aren't like that with other teams. And that was one of the biggest differences as you know when you take a look at that team as the other Super Bowl Championship winning teams but the San Francisco Forty niners. It was a collection of talent outstanding talent. A collection goes a collection of personalities and molding that many dispirit personalities and Egos into a successful championship team is it's not easy. How was it done? George SEAFORD I've said it before and it sounded like I think at the time. Some people took it as a back end in compliment compliment to George. SEAFORD I meant it. In only the most adoring way George. SIEFERT didn't screw it up because so many people would have. They would have tried to to harness. All those Egos and all those personality he just let Eddie go and and we did things different when we got there. And I'm going to tell you a story that's hilarious. I guess for years the offense ran the show with the forty niners and we got there there. And let's just say with Ricky watters who comes across the middle and Kenny thumps him and then it's Jj stokes now with later time One of the receivers comes across awesome and I thump him and Ricky watters does it again and he picks the ball up and throws it at Kenny Norton and we have a full on brawl. George Siefert stopped practice actes. He gathered everybody in. He said all of you guys on offense have told me now for two years and you came into my office all off season instead. George you need to get some tough guys on defense because we're getting intimidated by the Dallas Cowboys. So I did exactly what you ask. I went and got a a couple of tough guys on defense. Now here's what you gotta do. Shut the hell up and go play football and you should heard the raucous laughter and mean and and you WanNa talk about talking smack after that Dion. Kenny myself we were just in the faces of those guys and it made them better. Because because that's how the cowboys played and we played that way on defense and San Diego too so it was. It was great for that team. You know it was always. I guess this was the knock on the forty niners is. They had a sophisticated offense and that they weren't rock-hard they weren't street tough and that sort of thing but the thing I admire by George Seaford and you probably will confirm this but but when he was the Defensive Coordinator for Bill Walsh There was an insurrection on the forty nine defensive squad because he had so many reads and everything instead of just being a natural athletic reaction to what the play was and Ronnie Lotte in those guys went to him and I mean I know about the meeting on that and it was got real ugly. The Georgia's credit. He simplified down and of course they had those championship teams three with bill of course and then when he took over the forty niners he didn't and try to put the George Siefert label on that team. He Just kept the Machine Well oiled and that's a beautiful beautiful example of who George was as a coach because he was able to adapt. And you're exactly right. A lot of people would have tried to change things our. We're not GONNA do it bill. Bill's way anymore he kept kept much of what bill did. And that's why he continued to have success and they were completely different personalities and yeah keep it simple stupid kiss. We heard that many times and George was great about it. You know. It's kind of interesting about Steve Young because he always had a monkey on his back I mean he was in the shadow. Of course Joe Montana honor for such a long time and I think the biggest problem with him in that before he won a super bowl and got that off. His shoulders was the fact that he thought too much about it. He didn't really just let things happen until when he did great success that he had but he was an interesting guy because he came from Utah Mormon And everything what was it that stood about out about him when you were playing with him so it was that first year and I think we just lost to Philadelphia we. We've got crushed and George Siefert pulled him out and Steve Young Mormon Steve Young custom out on the sideline and ripped him to shreds and everybody was like who is this and it was at that point because you know guys did look at Steve is just you know okay. It's milk toasts Steve. It's it's this guy that just kind of goes he didn't edge to it. You didn't have an edge and I think guys respect back that they respect the edge. They respect a rebel. And it's just not Steve's personality but once he did that and went after George and that's a compliment to George again again for allowing it. George stood there and Steve. If we if you've ever seen the video of it is standing like five yards behind him and he's just Chirpin and he just just keep Chirpin in his ears. Yes and and use it dropping F bombs and all kinds of stuff you know going back in whatever and George Coulda turned around and sent him off the field or find him didn't and that really became a watershed moment for Steve taking on a leadership role in that offense. I mean you expect it out of a quarterback back but that's when everybody started listening to Steve Yup. We have a little less than two minutes and I always love to ask this question and I'll be interested in your answer to it when you think back on your life and your career. Is there any one moment. That's really ingrained. Gary Plumbers Mind that will never forget definitely have It would be two things but from the same game and it was from the Super Bowl. I was sitting next to Rickey Jackson in the locker room and I run. I hadn't had nerves before a game and probably five years at that point my career thirteenth year of my career. Because you just prepare yourself so well but I had butterfly not butterflies bats in my stomach dominic and all of a sudden a guy came up behind me and he put his hand on my shoulder and one on Rickey Jackson shoulder and he looked down on any he leaned in and said. Don't worry tonight I'm getting you guys your first Super Bowl Ring Jerry rice and I got on the cell phone that was probably the size of a brick at that point and I called my wife and I said have the boys at the fifty yard line with two minutes to go in the game. We are kicking their ass and so my wife had my two boys who were twelve and ten. At the time on the sideline I went and picked them up. Took them out onto the field before the game was even over a matter of fact I missed the two point join play because of that because we are substitutes in at that point and I have pictures with the boys sitting on the sideline in the super bowl standing next to players and and and that is really the highlight of my football career alley. We only have a couple of seconds left. But what I'm happiest about is getting together with you. Seeing being that you are healthy I mean I look at you. And hearing you articulate your life in your thoughts and everything that makes me the happiest because you once revealed that you suffered over over twenty five hundred concussions in the course of your career even when most of them were mild grade one type and I worry about that. Thank you for coming in and spending some. Thank you so much for for having Ron. I've admired you ever since those days at cal. Okay thank you and Corey to bringing your wife in. We continue of course sperry interesting man very successful athlete and Super Super Bowl Championship athletes when he played with the San Francisco Forty niners and that was a great team that was the fifth of their five super bowl championships former linebacker Gary plummer bomber with us. And again he played eight years with San Diego four years with the niners. We continue across the country and around the world with you on Sports. byline you remember in the beginning when you first started to build a life for you and your family you never imagined it would come to this instead of living your dreams you were living with debt. In fact it's smothering you now. There's a way you can take back control with one. Simple call if you owe ten thousand dollars or more Oren credit card debt you qualify to receive a free no obligation consultation on how to get rid of that debt for good call the debt helpline. Now we work work on your behalf to reduce your debt. 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Blue consists of a proprietary formula developed specifically for the treatment of inflammation and General Muscle Lakes and strains I recommend blue for my patients coping with hip and knee pain before surgery especially bursitis and tendinitis give blue. Go try call one eight eight eight three three zero zero one two three and you'll receive a one week supply of blue absolutely free the makers of Blue Goo or even paying the shipping. The number again is one eight. Eight eight three three zero zero one two three if you want more information on blue visit online at www dot du the goo dot com now available at select. The Big Five stores near are you. This is America's sports talk show sports byline USA. Here's Ron Bar. Aw that's going to wrap up this hour. Sports byline a very powerful interview in the studio with us. Gary Plummer linebacker played twelve seasons. Eight with San Diego four with the niners and he was undrafted after playing his college ball. A cow started playing pro ball. Aw with the Oakland invaders of the USFL and played in the USFL championship game and after his eight years with the chargers then moved onto the San Francisco. Forty niners there's and he was on that team that won Super Bowl number twenty nine and he also revealed that he suffered over two thousand five hundred concussions in the course of his career even when most of them. We're very mild grade one time and he has been recovering from the cumulative effect ever since. I'm Ron Bar. Thanks for being a part of America's sports talk show. Joe Hi. This is Rick Tidwell tune in every Sunday night at nine. PM Pacific Time for the Video Game Review Will Review Games. We'll give away brand new game. We'll talk cheat codes new releases and your calls as well. That's right here. Every Sunday night on the sports byline USA broadcast network in you're listening to the sports byline. 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Their high availability cloud servers are the perfect solution for clients needing one or more secure scalable servers with built in hardware fell over protection for details. See them online hidden. No scale dot net in the news on Tuesday Project Veritas exposed video the of ABC's. Amy Robot admitting that the Disney oh network had witnessed testimony pertaining to the Jeffrey Epstein Scandal. Three years ago but refused to aware it excuses range from being threatened a million different ways by the Palace after the Royal Family Somehow got wind that the network had allegations against Prince Andrew to a fair that. ABC May no longer be able to interview kate and will as revelations at eight major US network hit potential evidence and information related to one of the most shocking scandals in history. It has now come out that the person responsible for the leak has been fired. The mind unleashed reports. That not only has no one responsible responsible for bearing the incredibly important story been fired held accountable punish or publicly named an entirely different mainstream network has now fired the employees that formerly worked for ABC News. The Liberty is sponsored in part by brave botanical high-quality crate him in CBD at reasonable prices with excellent. Excellent Customer Service Ray. panicles is activist owned and mission driven and believe so strongly in the power of them. They're giving it away for free. Just go to you. FREE OUNCE OF FREEDOM DOT COM for a free crate them delivered to your door. Just pay shipping. That's Free Adam Dot Com. This is the latest edition. The liberty beat find us online liberty DOT news and SNL S. DOT news. Your news now continues the intercepts Glenn. Greenwald was assaulted during a live broadcast. Yes Thursday by a right-wing Brazilian journalist and defender of the country's four right President Bolsonaro Greenwald. WHO's reporting this year has exposed unethical and possibly doubly criminal behavior Bible? Scenario government repeatedly called journalist and columnist Augusta Nunez. A coward during a segment on Alvin Pan. News one Brazil's largest right-wing radio and youtube outlets in a tweet ahead of his appearance. Greenwald said he had many questions for new nets who suggested in September that juvenile judge should investigate Greenwald and husband Brazilian lawmaker David Miranda for neglecting their adopted Children Greenwald during the program Said said that what Nunez did was quote the ugliest and dirtiest thing I've ever seen in my career as a journalist and quote two former twitter employees have been charged with spying for Saudi Arabia in a case that the Washington Post said quote raises concerns about the ability of Silicon Valley to protect the private information of dissidents and other users from repressive governments and quote. The mind unleash reports a complaint unsealed Wednesday in US District Court in San Francisco detailed a coordinated effort by Saudi officials to recruit employees at the social media giant to look up the private data of thousands of twitter accounts. The accounts included those vay popular journalist with more than one million followers and other prominent government critics the charges come one day after the arrest. Rast one of the former twitter employees a US citizen who is alleged to have spied on the accounts of three users including one who's posed discuss the inner workings of the Saudi Saudi leadership on behalf of the government in Riyadh the second former employees. A Saudi citizen was accused of accessing. The personal information of more more than six thousand twitter accounts in two thousand fifteen support for the liberty comes from the conscious resistance network featuring videos news reports sports articles from a spiritual anarchist perspective. 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These are limited time offers and can change at any time call fast eight hundred four zero five two five six one eight hundred four five two five six one eight hundred four zero five two five six one. That's eight hundred. Four zero five twenty five five sixty one live worldwide sports byline. US Back. And here's host Ron and good to have you on board for for another edition of Sports. But I think you're going to really enjoy this hour because Kurt Smith has been with us so many times before because he's a prolific writer about the broadcasting industry. Three I'll tell you more about his latest book injustice second and then Don Woods who was a Negro League baseball player. He'll be joining us a little bit later on to talk about that experience. And and of course that's a part of sports slash baseball history. That should never ever be forgotten. And I might point out one of the things that I'm most proud of is just just a collection of interviews that we have in the library more than twenty thousand and growing every day just from my show alone and also the fact that it covers more than sixty five years in sports and certainly people have passed away over the years. And I'm proud that I can pull out and interview with that person. And you can relive their life and their career and and hear what it was like for them I mean the people like Mickey Mantle when John McCain passed away Two days later we played the interview that I did with him. It was an hour long interview in which he he talked about his love for boxing and also about the hearings that he held when it came to the steroid use as well. And then I think about Willie mccovey and I just I think about all the athletes that we have lost or somebody significant in sports. And we've been able to play the interviews that we have in our library about them and you can find some of them on our website at sports byline dot com or you can go to the library of Congress go. Www Library of congress doubt Out Org and then slash sports byline and you'll find them. All of their the entire sports byline library is being hosted by the Library of Congress and were particularly particularly proud of that. Curt Smith will kick things off. He's an award-winning radio. Commentator and well respected author among his books as voices of the game the Classic History of Baseball Broadcasting and. He's a former White House presidential speechwriter. So it's not really surprising that is seventeenth book is called the President Presidents and the pastime. And it's a look at the various presidents relationships to baseball and their youth and also in office very interesting angle to take on baseball and then don woods was a pitcher in the Negro Leagues for nine seasons with the Chicago monarchs and he was also with the Kansas City. Monarchs and he was undefeated in all his starts with Kansas City and when he wasn't pitching he was playing right field also third base. So we're ready to go. When we come back we're talking with Curt Smith on sports byline? Guess what right now is the perfect time to get your house ready for the winter so you can sit back and enjoy the holidays. HOMEADVISOR can help no catch homeadvisor matches you to the right fro for the job. In seconds you can read reviews and book appointments. Online homeadvisor can help with any home project. Check or small painting flooding even remodeling. So why wait go to homeadvisor dot com or download the free APP to get started on your next project. 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Twenty details this is America's sports talk show sports byline USA zagged. Here's Ron Bar Nice to have curt Smith back with us on sports byline. He's an award-winning radio. Commentator tator and well respected author and among his books as voices of the game the Classic History of Baseball Broadcasting. He's a former White House presidential speechwriter. So it's not really surprising that his seventeenth book is called the president's and the pastime. It's a look at the various presidents relationship to baseball in their youth and also when they were in office her first of all. I'm assuming that writing. This book was a Labor of love for you. Well it probably was labor but it certainly was allow that I know first of all. Let me say what a treat it is to be back with. You this is a A personal Treat for me Well we go back a long way probably too long but it's just a delight but yes Looking back at at at childhood I think typically take for For men are habits into date back to when we were six seven years old. That was how it was with me with baseball. And also my interest in politics politics and so is remain so and both by vocations avocation have been based upon both and So I think it was is inevitable ron that I would do a book That that linked this This twinning of the heart of that is the presidency in baseball and My only surprise has been that. I didn't do the book sewer because it was It was so I think inevitable But these are two institutions solutions that for every American our hours because they were born here. they are uniquely American They had their birth. They evolved awed they rose and for better and for worse we have lived with them and through them and then and been buoyed by them and No one had until now written a complete and exhaustive book. I'm the relationship between these. How the presidents have been unaffected by baseball? How baseball has been affected by the president's hop always have been affected by the culture and You know when when we do you think the president who is a Boston the WHO's a WHO's a boom. Everyone has an opinion. The same thing with baseball so I've tried to do is have an episodic anecdotal anecdotal but always participate backed by research and hopefully above all fair. Tell me a little bit about the historic track of baseball in presidents. It's well base back before there was a republic back to a certain fellow by the name of Washington George When he was a general at Valley awards and that terrible wonder if seventeen seventy seven seventy eight when the army was hanging by a string and he was wiling away hours? These are they couldn't attack. It was too cold and snowy so we strategizing mentally and throwing a baseball or a figment of such with his aide. DECAMP for hours. They were playing a game of British Tennessee. Baseball called rounders and That marked of terrible winter at Valley Forge segue Abraham Lincoln. Early eighteen sixties. was playing town ball on the white lot as it was then called And the we call the ellipse Just outside of the White House where the White House Christmas tree is lit every year and he not simply played games baseball iceberg outside the White House but Ron he bought baseball inside. They would use. The caller was a White House. Ineffective Base Pass. You could imagine. uh-huh Abraham Lincoln Isle. Six foot. Four of them people would gape and in fact at the At details behind him. And how and how extraordinarily long his strides were And so Lincoln was Was a fixture and then we go to to The part of the book which is the the great majority of the book where presidents from a theater always all the way Donald Trump Have a chapter devoted each. And that's where the real work look at the book began. You know when you take a look at the history of it. What was the time? who was the first president to throw out the first pitch? Well that would be the immortal. William Howard Taft and if you WANNA picture those of of Certain age having a great deal about taft. Did you ever get a chance to to Google the nineteen sixties. Jackie gleason show Look for character but the race the third this would be someone with a mustache dash and details and the hi hat. I baseball because Al but all three hundred pounds of him. Well that was William Howard. Taft and what a guy he was he loved baseball. Couldn't get enough of it Saw Game One day and each Patriot league. Nobody's ever done that was raided by nineteen sixty two of the sporting news. Poll the greatest peace fan ever to be president and he's out in nineteen ten The first first pitch and therefore inaugurated a right of the spring minutes. been with US ever since and he loved the game and couldn't get enough a father in fact Theodore Roosevelt his predecessor. Pardon me who hated the game. Loathe it because it didn't have enough blood and violence and jeff for or him but couldn't say and didn't say so. Because Roosevelt understood how popular baseball was and Teddy Roosevelt was a fade on that if appeased if he mentioned that he hated baseball. He would literally lose presidency. That's how Popular Baseball was Roosevelt. Once William Howard Taft Man and he you said look at him The crowd loves him just the site. So that was an Envi- there Taft even though Roosevelt to serve two terms. Only one one of the things that I remember as a young kid because I was born in Washington. DC over to Griffith Stadium on opening day and the president with throw it out even at RFK stadium as well but it seems like that tradition has been broken. Why has it happened? I think because you've got to presidents that have not understood and appreciated the ritual and the history. Barack Obama was one He was More of a basketball fan. Perhaps he did throw out the first ball one one opener but did not make it A ritual analyst not called to account by the national breast and then Donald Trump up The irony being trump chapter notes trump was a terrific baseball player at New York Military Academy north of New York City the Phillies lillies have. The red. Sox both wanted to draft camp to sign him. They thought that he would be a major league. Prospect but trump said and. This is a quote so prophetic of him. He said Ed. I didn't WanNa make baseball money. I wanted to make real money. Strike me number one. I'll Valeria is that he thought you you couldn't make real money playing baseball you certainly today. But secondly how trump new himself well enough that. He knew that money for him was was Nirvana But he has yet to throw out the first ball even though trump did throughout responsibility became president at Fenway Park Yankee Stadium even really field I think however all it's going to take a couple of years with trump throwing the first pitch out getting back in the ritual and he should the only reason and he's not in my view is he's a thoroughly afraid of being booed National Park. Well every Republican president is booth and and heavily Democratic Washington Washington Reagan was booed Bush. Forty three was booed. I remember but I will for Bush forty one and he was booed so You know my advice to the president and I say say this respectfully man up get out there. It's all it's the first pitch we have about two minutes before you have to break a aside from Donald Trump. Is it fair to say that Uh George Bush George W Bush was probably the best baseball athlete also among the president. Well Dad a wonderful player Forty one I don't say that simply because I wrote for him and know him well and appreciate him and revere but forty one was a star. Captain Others Baseball Team Tale great fielder even in his sixties video shows him sprawling behind the first base bag and then You Know Scout told me that that Had there been the position. Doesn't it fielder that Bush forty one could've made the major leagues so he was a great baseball player. I would say that Bush forty you want and Donald Trump the best baseball players ever to be strictly arbitrary decision. But I think you can make that case you know as I think through it and watching watching them perform as they did when they did throw a ball. I think you're absolutely right about that. And as you pointed out trump is not thrown out a baseball. What about the worst presidents? It's as far as Athletes well now you're GONNA get me in trouble with people that liked them I don't WANNA be pejorative. So I'm I'm going to try to Herbert Hoover who loved baseball is not happen. Much but athlete after he gained way he was terrific in college I think Harry Truman Harry. Truman was not a great athlete. Not good athletes. That's on the other hand was a terrific athlete. Harry do that no oh she said that it should be the boss. He called her the boss. The boss is the real in the family and she was so I think Harry was not much of a Lyndon Johnson was not a great athlete. Nixon was not a great at however Richard Nixon I think without question was the greatest baseball student to ever be president Nixon excellent much. More of a Walter Medicare. I say that was great affection. That really any other president we've ever had. He knew the game early in one year. Nineteen sixty five. Next door was was offered to positions within baseball one. Just the first director of the Players Union. The second run three months later he was offered the job of commissioner baseball. That's that's how he was within the Chambers of the Game Curt Smith is with us on sports byline award winning radio broadcaster and of course well respected author. We're talking about his seventeenth book. It's called the president's and the pastime we continue with more of you and sports byline. Are you an active. Have Stock Market investor. Then you know these three key words buy sell hold. Those three magic words can make or lose you money in the stock market. What we can show you a time-tested tool that's been helping stock market? Investors succeed for over thirty years. It's called vector fast and amazing system. I have designed to make some smart investing easy. The vector vest system analyzes sorts and ranks over nineteen thousand stocks. 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Or maybe you've built a successful business and you want to share your story at Dorrance Publishing Company. We have professional writers who can help. Turn Your Book Idea into a finished manuscript quickly and affordably a dorrance ghost rider can provide as much or as little help as you need to complete your book. Doc you'll work directly with your ghost rider to finish your book faster than you ever could on your own. It's easy to become a published author called Dorrance now to learn more eight eight hundred four eight five six zero zero three eight hundred four eight five six zero zero three eight hundred four eight five so six zero zero three call right now. That number is eight hundred. Four eight five six thousand three. This is America's sports talk show sports byline USA here's Rondebosch curt. Smith is joining us. That I'm going to recommend this book. The president's in the pastime in fact we're going to make a selection of the month on the sports byline. USA Book Corner so please check it out. It's it's about the president's and their relationship to baseball and their youth and also in office. I know in the book you talk about the importance of baseball as far as when the country was at award. I thought it was very insightful. What you had to say well Fact Roosevelt graces. The cover of the book I had a little bit to do with that. But you know I think that that would have been in any event because Franklin Roosevelt was the only elected four times and thank God he was because does he was the indispensable man. as Democrat said During the war in nineteen forty the Japanese attacked Pearl Harbor and Roosevelt had been elected to a third term and Baseball did not know what to do in the wake of Pearl Harbor Several weeks later on January fourteenth the Commissioner of Baseball Kennesaw Mountain. Landis wrote a Roosevelt said we we are clueless. We don't know what to do. Tell us what to do. We don't know whether we should operate nineteen forty two. We don't know whether we should close shop You know we're we're crossroad. Then that's day. Hey Franklin Roosevelt answers Not only does the ants in the letter. He read aloud at a press conference. That is how important baseball was to the country. In nineteen forty two was about fed. Baseball is so important to the country that must be played and we'll be played for the entire duration of the war until we win. He said so for several reasons. First of all baseball was exceedingly important Jordan to the morale of the fund the people fighting the war and producing the goods and the Ireland. It's necessary for total victory but he also knew and later. This was shown shown that nothing with the exception of letters from From loved ones here at home boosted the morale of troops abroad more than box scores and game accounts which reach the player or between the troops abroad than baseball accounts from here at home and so rose about newest country clean. He knew The troops and this is and this was a crucial deficient both the country and for baseball. And so what I'm suggesting in the president's in the past time is that The hall of fame and museum in Cooperstown New York. I was just there. Speaking civilize ago I think at the hall of fame should posthumously induct Franklin Roosevelt into the whole thing and the rationale I think is is quite clear and absolutely there are nearly only three hundred plaques players and executives who have been inducted in the hall not one of them uses this phrase saved baseball aw. Franklin Roosevelt saved baseball. Baseball did not know if it had not been played during the war whether it would have even emerged emerged from the war. Only rose about We can be sure say baseball. Who admits that baseball itself? Let's go back for just a moment in touch on Harry Truman a little bit further. One thing I did not know when you bring this out in your book is that he threw the first ball left right and both handed. Yes Yogi Berra would call it and fitness. He would indeed the Trump was terrific. Yes and many times not with us both hands cupping it Clark who is the owner of the Washington senators and he said he was a friend of tournaments and he said that you know Harry sorry. Can Harry can use any pitch. He wants to my ballpark. That includes a spitball and the spitball a lot since nineteen twenty or at least going line retroactively driven through that but he threw everything else. Harry had a ball. He didn't know much about baseball. Bats statistically like his wife best but he I knew I had a good time and everyone knew that he was having a blast so he just bought a very merry hairy to To his excitement of the org the of the game and bess she go back to the White House to the newly built Truman balcony and she put on her Her Radio and she put the TV on and she listened to the Washington senators and the Senate were so bad that Bob lost their radio. TV broadcaster said that tongue-in-cheek that. He never said who is winning. He said he'd just gives a score ten to five four to five to one people tuning in already knew who is wearing. He sat and watching the sounders. How did Jimmy Carter Come to love the game? Well to Lillian car is one of the great hero at this book. I had known that before I began writing it. She really was first of all. She was a great supporter and friend of Jackie Robinson. They were born ninety two miles apart. Art in Georgia But she was a wonder woman. She was a professional wrestling patron. She was at goodwill ambassador. She was someone who had worked In the Peace Corps Volunteer Block had she been born Let's say Fifty years later she probably would have owned a major league franchise. He was amazing amazing and she loved baseball the carters for example she and her husband when the crossword job Done every year they will get in there in a car in Georgia and they would go to a different major league franchise each year for an entire homestand one year. They drive the books. What's on from Georgia and they'd stay in hotel for two weeks so they'd see a dodgers home stand? The next year they go to Boston and they spend two weeks they'd see a red sox home staff. Why why they did this? Until they'd seen every major league team for two weeks from entire homesteads I have never heard of such a baseball Odyssey and it was a baseball lover's dream and she instilled Jimmy Carter the sense of wonderment in terms of loving the national pastime. People don't don't associate associate Jimmy Carter with being a baseball fanatic. But he was such a workaholic is president. He had no time for any kind of leisure including baseball. He was a great fan Dan before he became president here was a great fan again after leaving the presidency just anyone looking at the Atlanta braves contol so it was a great story with which I was totally unfamiliar until I began doing research on the cars before we wrap this up. I'D BE AMISS IF I didn't talk about President Reagan. He came by his love for baseball. He spoke very honestly because he was a broadcaster. Who in Iowa. And he was involved with something that was done during that period of time. which was the re-creations pick up the story? Oh yes what an art form the recreation The recreation was Reagan was working for W. H. O. Des Moines and They were broadcasting the Chicago cubs. They weren't Carrying it live because line charges were expensive so you would have someone at Wrigley Field in Chicago. And they would be sending in a in a sense Morse code to Reagan in Des Moines Iowa WHOL and Reagan would get from Wrigley Field? Something something that said be one. What does that mean being born outside? That's already been done. And he had to reimburse wash he had the to invent. He had to recreate that Spartan. Encapsulation Reagan wants toby merging fact and fiction. What better training for politics? What what training indeed? And he invented him he romanticized and he made what happened. Wrigley field more riveting than the actual game itself self and this is how it wasn't. He went for five years but this he never saw a real live day. He didn't need to and he made that game. More real than if Reagan had had actually been in the bleachers at Wrigley Field and this is wonderful training for him he then of course In went into into acting and became grover Cleveland Alexander Alexandra in the nineteen fifty. Two baseball movie The winning team then as president he did many baseball functions and and Had the hall of Famers Baseball he began the right of having the world series team. Come to the White House every year. And he wound up his presidency at play enough going back to Wrigley field where it all began for him at least Through repatriation where he sat in the booth and he did an inning. And a half with another living legend by the name of Harry Carey Holy Cow. What Day it was? We only have a minute left than just. What do you want people to take away from this book? Kurt hurt I think some sense. If I'm lucky we are there. 'cause we've got these two institutions They've been very good to us and I think we've been very good to them they they have added. I think immeasurably to my life I think to yours to the vast majority of our listeners. Here and what I've tried to do is to Uh to put together a book That's that's really them and worthy of the people who Who Bought the Book My Dad when I was little always said that Give give people that money's worth. There's a little bit extra. That's what I've always tried to do. With my books. In terms of the research and hard work the stories stories that will give them facts. Yes but the caller is well something no matter how you approach the subject. That'd be something in the book for you in about twenty seconds. Is there a moment in this book. That's Kinda Crystallizing Curt Smith's mine. Oh Jeez you know I think I think working with George H W Bush which was a great privilege for me? A war hero Someone who Almost gave his life during the war of the greatest generation because his generation nationless my dad's generation and that time. Although I obviously did not live I feel I did because it makes us so proud even now looking back to remember what they gave. Awesome how we have to be worthy of them. Heard I wanNA thank you very much. You're one of my favorite people. You know that seventeen books. This is really an outstanding book and you are welcome here on sports byline anytime. Take care all that you'd run. That's just terrific and Great to be with you. Thanks so much Kurt Smith again. Check out this book. It is an excellent read. It's a seventeenth book. It's called the president's and the pastime. I'm Ron Bar. We continue across the country and around the world with you on sports byline. Hey Mike How's the house going along. Needs a ton of work. The pipes are leaking. Needs a new roof the GIS broke. I just don't have time to do it all myself. Self anyone now just ask homeadvisor they match you with the best local pros for any home project cool. Yeah you can read reviews and Book Appointments Online. 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Nine point five percent free three of impurities and the pennzoil is the first synthetic motor oil made from natural gas not crude oil. It gives you unbeatable engine protection. Catch the proof is in the pennzoil based on sequence four where testing using SAS. Five thirty. Stop by O'Reilly auto parts for our see better drive safer sale going on right now. Get great deals on everything. Everything from lifer blades to headlight bulbs plus save on your next oil. Change with five quarts of O'Reilly full synthetic motor oil and micro guard filter. Just twenty five thousand nine oreilly auto parts better parts. Better prices every day only auto parts. This is America's sports talk show sports byline USA. Here's Rod bar. Don Woods joins us on sports byline. He was a pitcher in the Negro League for nine seasons with the Chicago monarchs and also the the Kansas City monarchs and he was undefeated in all starts in Kansas City. And when he wasn't pitching he played right field and third base in one thousand nine hundred sixty three. The Renown Negro League pitcher Satchel page joined the Kansas City. Monarchs during down time on the bench woods had the opportunity to learn and here so many of the great stories from the legendary Satchel page first of all don tell me about growing up in Chicago woke up on the south side of Chicago. I was Played in Little League Baseball. I was one of the ones who listen elected to play in the traveling lake for the A Little League baseball chain chain I played at high school level. I played on the baseball team Hyde Park High School in Chicago. South side From there era I went to Wilson Junior College where I played on the team with Wilson Junior College and after that I played with the Chicago monarchs and I might add that. That's the way I got a lot of my experience Reference to growing take a feel a baseball. What were the opportunities for black players at that particular time when you were growing up? Well I tell you what happened if they let's see what the the the players of my age we were the players that played day and night we went out on the summertime played early in the morning all the way into the evening and the community which I lived. I felt that quite a few of them were very athletic and possibly possibly could have been a focal point in the major league in trying to make their niche into the baseball game. What kind of baseball town was Chicago? At that time. It was pretty popular Where I was they hit a mine voice club who had a lake and were they were maybe maybe eight or nine teams competed at the high school level? There was a teams from different sections of the city who competed for citywide championship and went on to represent Chicago and various other Entities throughout Chicago. Land area what was Baseball looked upon our. How did the fans in baseball generally look upon the Negro Leagues at that time? Well you know what I what I felt take and how was. My man was all about playing baseball and I think that people were very very interested in seeing how the black players ears progress over a period of years if they get older. I know for instance when I became a member of the Chicago. Apple Monarchs They used to play on Sundays. And much to my Regulation we had a pet crowd at the ballpark and a lot of the people who came often times which I didn't know until later oftentimes bet on the game. I'm sure a lot of people probably bet on Games back at that time and you know what what I also find out. What is that? The first thing that we're asking is it is that what's kids pitching today. So a Lotta. They found out I was pitching they. They bet on the team that would that I was playing for one of the things that I found interesting in talking to other Negro League baseball players down. And maybe you can give me some insight on this is the ARA that was around the game at that time and I'm talking about the black fans I'm talking about the black players what it meant to the black community and everything your perspective on that. I think there was a lot of cried among the black community to see black players Negro League ballplayers who excelled and where they are to play in front of the crowd and also develop into something that is happening today with a lot of our ball players. So I think it was. The starting point made a big difference in the lives of the bottom of the ball players. Were really supportive of the Negro Leagues Baseball players was the we are like at a ballgame. Just give me a vibe About what it was like going to a Negro League baseball game in Chicago. Oh I tell you what High tissue you jumped the gun a bit. I remember when sexual page and that's kind of I. Just think that doing his era he pissed at one here against the White Fox and there were well over sixty seven thousand people in attendance. Okay so that tells you what the thought is in support portal like Negro baseball especially in Chicago one of the things that I have sensed in all my interviews with the players from the Negro Leagues and back at that particular take time. There was no resentment or anger about what they couldn't do in baseball. There was a I. Guess a grasp of what they could do and they wanted to do because of the passion they had the game I correct and observation. That's pretty close to two inaccurate. Your thoughts on what you statement. You made a lot of the players. They knew that they were at a certain point. I level in their career playing integral baseball and a lot of them had the great to move up to the major leagues. In in some cases depending upon era they know what's going to be very difficult at at that time. What was the pay like for players with the Chicago? Monarchs speaking from my personal experience. I only got ten dollars a game to me. You know. I'm eighteen years old and I didn't care whether I got paid or not. I was out there playing baseball with the Kansas City. Monarchs Wow that was the pay ten dollars Games possibility ability. Maybe the older guys got more money. But I know I got ten dollars and what about the rest of the The League tell me about some of the other competition you face when you were with both the Chicago and Kansas City okay. We played when I was a Kansas City monarchs. We played teams from different parts of the country At that time Kit Raspberry with the the manager owner of the team and he book games for us to play different teams Uh especially in the south and we would say basically three or four times a week so we were like a traveling team going away from town to town and that's how are traveling Scheduled went had you ever been outside of Chicago before you started traveling with ball club club. No no I haven't I didn't think that you had so I'm just wondering as young as you were. What were the impressions? You had about the rest to the country. Well some of the places I went to. They had nice stadium which I was in awe when we played at some of those statements and it was a lot of people. We'll come out to the game to see the Kansas City monarchs. They've heard a lot about the Kansas City monarchs and they weren't really in support else. Our our team out there playing against their hometown team the Indianapolis clowns the other major franchise in the Nigger Lake. Yeah that was another team. Potty epaulets clowns and Which I didn't know too much about when I played we did not compete against one another when in fact we play different teams from different cities and towns so we really never competed against each each other at that level? Tell me about the first time you ever saw Satchel page okay First Time I met such as which I didn't realize until after we had a conversation about some of the things he has accomplished and I realized that I'm minute company of somebody who's really one of a kind he. He was the person that was was one who knew what he's talking opened about especially with baseball he was very confident and I was really really impressed with him and to me fan into myself. Here I'm sitting in the Dugout next to this guy called such page. What was the best piece of advice he ever gave you done? He told me one of the things that I can recall very well. He says when you pitching never ever get nervous because your opponent so better. They can tell if you're nervous always take control of the game and know what you're doing and become competent when you're out there you know it's always been said about him. How fast ask he was and of course the great line is I think this came from his roommate said he was so fast that when he turned off the light he got in bed before it got dark? But tell me what were the little things about him. The medium special okay. I think that some of the things that he did especially and I asked him. You know I said you know setup read we had a lot of things about you and statements say that you've done over a period of over ten point five decades shooting playing baseball. Not say how much of that is true. He said let me tell you. One thing he say has any statement I made I had to prove those statements to make sure it was correct. So he say you got anything you read about me. It's true everything. I'm hearing everything I'm hearing about him is that he had a sense of humor as well. He let's he was in A. I think that probably made him as as a such a great ball player he never to me seem to be tight and he enjoys a game. Do you remember any of the stories that he shared with you. That made you laugh. Oh yeah he wanted to stories he told me was that when he went to Forget exactly the location but he would always guaranteed wherever he played he would guarantee that the first six six outwardly strikeouts in addition to that doing doing a Favorites in the third inning. One out he you would bring his outfielder cancer dugout Hem sit down and he would pitch and they can never get the ball out now. Feel why was that. I mean what was his pitches. Where did he do what I think what? What made him so great? He had pinpoint control. All of his pension pitches. Were Hi he. Can you know he could throw a ball over matchbook with no problem every time by doing that. The opposition the other players get upset and maybe he was showing them up or was that not a part of the baseball lore at that now I think that they consider him being someone above level of everybody else and they make 'em he there. Were not mad but in fact there were praising him on the talent he had in a lot of cases as old as he was trying to get those younger guys. was there a game that you happen to witness. I personally that you'll never forget that he pitched When he went when he played with us which was sixty three he was there his show show card public any and I know at that time he was like fifty some years old and a few other added that he's faced out of maybe six batters he struck out three of them so he still has speed he has still had his control and he was just stopping to see how old was he because there was always some question about his age when he was playing particularly later in his career like you? You just talked about. Yeah well there's always been a sane that nobody knew exactly how he was so so it's it's just said that he was like I guess when he finished playing he was like At the age of fifty five to say something about he's who harder than anyone in generation But record says that really who knows how he was. You were undefeated in all your starts with Kansas City. And I find that statistic amazing how were you able to be undefeated and on those starts. Well I think ahead players that play with there were excellent players who hit the ball and the timing was great. As a matter of fact I recall one particular. The team that I played against I pitched a two hitter against him and they have to manager. Well we would like to play. Oh you guys again and he said it up for us to play again in this was in Kansas so I think the name of Hays Kansas so we went back again and they had signs posted around the stadium about to the to the fact that the woods so they were there back to Just to beat me. 'cause I kissed a tweeter against them. I guess they were such a good team at that time and fortunately enough I beat them. There have to go. Well Don I wanNA thank you very much for your time and sharing your memories of your time in the Negro Leagues and again. It's always a special part of vote. The American sports scene the Negro Leagues and I think it deserves all the attention and certainly your career certainly deserves attention as well. Thank you very much for joining us here on. They were having. I think you have and and and anytime I want me to come back. Just give me a call. I'd love take care you take care now downwards with us Pitcher in the Negro League for nine seasons and he played with the Chicago monarchs grew up in Chicago and then also finished up his career with the Kansas City. Any monarchs and he was undefeated in all his starts with Kansas City. And when I think about that I just don't know how you go undefeated for all your starts in in Kansas City. And he had a number of starts as well and when he was not pitching he played right field and also third base and of course he had an opportunity to spend some time. Talking with the Great Satchel page about his career and getting advice. He was just a very young player. 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Oh seventy one thirteen Hi I'm Dr Robert Clapper Chief of Orthopedic Surgery at Cedars Sinai Medical Group in Los Angeles California dedicated to your health. Your life and your sports as a weekend warrior you know about sports injuries and pain exercises important element and keeping your body's core in good shape to minimize sports injuries. But when you are in pain there is one product elected I recommend to my patients and that is blue. Gel Blue consists of proprietary formula developed specifically for the treatment of inflammation and general muscle aches and strains I recommend blue goo for my patients coping hip and knee pain before surgery especially for sites and tendonitis. Give Lugo a try call. One eight eight eight three three zero zero one a two three and you'll receive a one week supply of blue absolutely free the makers of blue or even paying the shipping. The number again is one eight. Eight eight three three zero zero one onto three if you want more information on blue visit online at. WWW DOT DU dot com now available at select the big five stores near you. This is America's sports talk show sports byline. USA here's Ron Bar. That's going to wrap up this hour. Sports byline where we talked about the Negro Leagues with Don Woods. He was a pitcher in the Negro Leagues for nine seasons with Chicago monarchs and also the Kansas City monarchs and he was undefeated in all his starts with Kansas City. When he wasn't pitching he played right? Field Field and third base in the nineteen sixty three. The renowned Negro League pitcher Satchel page joined the Kansas City. Monarchs and during the downtime on the bench woods the opportunity the learn from in here many pages legendary stories and speaking of Stories Curt Smith with US award winning radio commentator and well respected author among his outstanding books as voices of the game as a brand new book out. Check it out. It's called the president and the pastime. I'm Ron Bar. Thanks for being a part of sports which pilots The Skin Taylor join us every weekend on sports byline for outdoor guy's radio radio for the sportsmen's I've style we bring the best of the great outdoors to your radio. Jio Dial every Saturday morning at seven. Am Pacific here on Sports byline and Sports BYLINE DOT COM uh-huh you're listening to the sports byline. USA broadcast where the rubber always meets the road. I think actually. I'm not even sure what that means to you. SPEED RADIO NETWORK BACK AT HEART DOT com. This stream is supported by advertisers and contributions by follow follow us on facebook twitter and Instagram's this is the liberty your daily source for Liberty News activists updates produced in partnership with hasn't Ls News and listeners. Like you online at Liberty beat dot news and SNL the last news. I make Merle with your latest edition of the Liberty beat Golden Trading at one thousand four hundred sixty eight dollars silver at seventeen dollars and eleven cents and Bitcoin is turning around nine thousand one hundred seventy nine dollars. Today's prices are brought to you by Eno scale take off with managed cloud looking for a safe secure secure way to store your important files online. Let Enos Gail handle it for you. Their high availability cloud servers are the perfect solution for clients needing one or more secure scalable servers with built in hardware fell over protection for details. See Them Online. Scale dot net in the news. On Tuesday Project Veritas territory. Exposed video of ABC's Amy Roebuck. 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I've ever seen in my career as a journalist and go out the two former twitter employees have been charged with spying for Saudi Arabia in a case that the Washington Post said quote raises concerns earns about the ability of Silicon Valley to protect the private information of dissidents and other users from repressive governments and quote the mind unleash reports a complaint unsealed appealed Wednesday in US District Court in San Francisco detailed a coordinated effort by Saudi officials to recruit employees at the social media giant to look up the private data of of thousands of twitter accounts. 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That's eight five five four five zero three seven three three. We have the discord on air. Colin line rooms over at discord dot L. DOT FM so feel free to hop into one of those. And you'll sound almost like you're sitting here in the studio studio with us and the US in that studio is Ian. The nobody formerly known as rich. Paul and Chris so I found really interesting and hilarious story about cannabis. Prohibition something that Nobody you've got a bit of personal experience Orient with having gone to jail for over a year of your life or having sold some of it. Nobody likes that while you weren't nobody at the time. I'm so used to be known as rich Paul but now there's an interesting thing that actually you and I came across I think recently without without getting into too much detail. We found that there's on the black market. Some people are selling cannabis but it's not actually cannabis it's hemp. Yes hemp flowers and the thing is they look just like cannabis at a glance like looks like you know the same thing you would pay for and expecting it to be the stuff that gets you high near Kinda smells the same it. The thing I noticed about the smell as that had kind of a more weedy smell really but it was within range of what I would expect from cannabis because there's a large range of of quality within cannabis right like there's as the high end stuff. There's the cheap stuff and there's the mid range and This is it. Seemed like it could have just been lower mid mid level canopus from my recollection action When this came around and you know Whoever it was that ended up acquiring it however they acquired it didn't think anything of it and then notice that no matter how much they smoked? It wasn't getting them high. And that's how we found out later on that. Oh well the reason why. It's not getting anyone highs because it's not supposed to but that was probably the guy who sold it didn't realize what what he'd been sold. Likely I mean. I don't think that it was a a scam or anything like that. I don't think it was an attempted scam. But that's that's how we discovered that this stuff was sort of on the market and I guess that buyer or did get a refund so the seller to do the right thing. IS IT A. Is it true that this stuff is just being sold at like. CBD's stores stores and things like that like is it down at Lineage vapes yeah. Yep so that's what so what people buy P for the same reason they use other. CBD Okay Various sorts of healing. I don't know why they would prefer the flower but I mean maybe they just like smoke smoke it. Perhaps I mean obviously there's different ways that one can consume the sort of thing these days but the reason I bring this up is because now this this stuff is in the news and it is in the news in a pretty hilarious way. The story from the New York Post. You've seen this already. I think I know the story the The one I'm thinking of it's hilarious. Yeah so and it couldn't happen to more deserving cops. The New York Police Department has confiscated what they thought was one hundred and six pounds of marijuana of cannabis sativa or cannabis indica or something. They thought was going to get you high. But the owner of the company says the Flora was bound or that the flora was bound for says the Greenie greenery was no more than hemp containing legal. CBD Steve For use by cancer sufferers. And he's got the papers to prove it or in Levy who sells hemp wholesale through his company Green Angel. CBD Claims Teams. That are gung-ho Fedex driver took it upon himself to report the shipment seventy fifth precinct when it arrived in Brooklyn despite the fact the cargo had all the necessary documentation to prove it was legal cops determined. It was straight up illegal marijuana but levy claims cops used an outdated aided testing method quote industry hemp. Looks like real. We'd it's the same species of plant. It's just the chemical compound is different Levy explained adding his product was well below federal limits for THC The post translation. This stuff does not get you high again. Can I get you high if you smoke enough of it. You might pass out due to smoke inhalation. But you're not going to get your arthritis. Might get back. The Post reviewed paperwork prepared by third party and shipped along the hemp certifying along with the hemp certifying. THC levels are well below the federal level of point three percent THC by evolve and just by comparison. If you buy cannabis that's intended to get you high. You're probably going to be getting sixteen percent twenty percent you you know twenty five percent. That's on the high end. I think I think cops out at like twenty five or twenty eight or something sixteen eighteen twenty s pretty common so point three percent. That's like nothing. The hemp shipment was certified to contain point one four percent. THC according to the documents he provided the post. On Saturday Saturday cops called green angel CD telling them to come pick up their greenery so they steal the the plants. Then they tell you you got to come to them to get him back. They don't do anything above and beyond I would say they should have shipped it. But you know you wouldn't want to send it Fedex. After that I would file file a claim with Fedex. Oh yeah absolutely down to their skivvies for this. Whoever this agent was with Fedex that snitched out on their own customers? Shame shame on that guy. Yeah I remember the days when Fedex got in trouble for moving drugs through airports. Yeah it's been a long time. I guess since that happened or at least they got got caught for him so cops call them said come. Pick it up but when Levy's brother arrived at the station house. Guess what happened. They've arrested him no now where did a day later. The seventy fifth precinct tweeted a photo of dozens of large bags of what looks like marijuana with a caption brake. Great Job by detour secretary yesterday working with Fedex and other local law enforcement. They were able to confiscate one hundred and six pounds of marijuana and arrest the individual associated with the intended delivery believable green angel. CBD fired back on Instagram. That quote this was our shipment. My brother was falsely arrested. Those bags were all hemp. All documents were in each box. The farm also called them to give them all their paperwork. Proving that it's all hemp. Please spread the world word word rather we need to know. We need to let people know that we are not criminals quote. I want it back. It's one hundred percent legal Levy told the post adding that he's out up to thirty thousand dollars sense. The police took the delivery. Oh they stolen their merchandise quote. I've helped thousands of people people with cancer people with autism pain arthritis people with severe skin issues. People who haven't slept for weeks. We are a legitimate business. He said Brooklyn Criminal. Little judge released his brother. The brother that was arrested two Ronin without bail on Sunday according to court records Andrew Savannah lawyer Vermont Farm that sold Levy the plant said a detective from the precinct asked him what the legal. THC limit was quote. He was claiming that he didn't know the legal limit. He said he needed to do his own test. We have test by certified lab so I don't understand why they needed to do their own tests. This is having a real impact on our client and the buyer. So you know if this and there's more to the story but this is frustrating and odds are that they're not going to get anything out Maybe they'll get something out of Fedex. But they're not going to get anything out of the New York Police Department. They'll be lucky to get the shipment back this is said and done. I'll be surprised if they get the shipment back I would. I will to suburbans lawyer law partner Timothy I the cops have no ground to hold the plants which can lose their potency over time quote. I think it's entirely inappropriate for them to put that on facebook when no crime was committed for them to gloat over the seizure of hemp is not appropriate. He said quote. There's no grounds for holding this product. It's it's a time sensitive matter. The hemp won't be viable indefinitely. Well how long's IT GONNA take because the court system does not move quickly Even though they've they've got all the evidence they need it's going to likely have to go in front of a judge because the odds are the cops are gonNA stick firm to their their position because they don't know any better and they don't care because there's no skin off their backs if they end up being proven wrong. They're going to try. And get the person to plead guilty to a lesser charge because it benefits the prosecutor and makes the cops look good. I mean uh-huh what Scum Yup they're scum and as the months tick by The quality of the product is going to go away. It's going to slowly deteriorate arrate overtime. Eighty five four fifty free. That's the toll free number but it is funny. It's not funny. What happened to the company now? That is funny that the cops made such a royal screw up in our bragging about it. It's hilarious stupid. There's also said Free Aycliffe such a sweet lovable animal and people would wanna Pat Pat Him and they'd come up and they'd get close to him and it would be this instant. Oh my dad didn't WanNA touch him like ou get the stinky dog away from me. Even after we'd give her a bath she would still stink various stinky both bad breath and bad gas. I asked the vet and he said some dogs are just stinky. Does your dog. It's scratched stink. Shit like crazy come dine. Invite for help. I N. O.. V. I T. E. DOT com the omega three fatty acids. Flaxseed I think the digestive enzymes that are cooked out of regular dog food ingredients convinced me. It was definitely worth trying after after about a week. He started smelling normal. My husband and I were really kind of astonished. Dynamite is nutrition deprived nine four. Mortuary One thousand V. I T. E. 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Did it now on apple or Android in the APP store or at edge dot APP. The Free State Project Has Reached its goal of Twenty Twenty Thousand Liberty Lovers who've pledged to move to New Hampshire and get active to achieve liberty in our lifetime. Perhaps you're trying to figure out what part of New Hampshire should be your destination. If so consider keen you'll find more than one hundred and fifty reasons to move too keen at move dot free. Dot Com keen is famous for its historic publicity regenerating activism as well as being the liberty media capital of the world. It's home to free keen. Dot Com New Hampshire's destination for Liberty Activism News and opinion for years years. We've been compiling over one hundred fifty reasons to move too keen at move dot freaking dot com. Where you'll learn about some of what's happening here? And what makes keen a great place to live. If you love liberty you'll probably enjoy anywhere you end up in the Shire but do your due diligence. I please visit move dot freaking dot com for the full whole list of over one hundred and fifty reasons to move to keene. That's move dot free keen dot com. So you've heard all three hours of the latest episode of Free Talk Talk Live and you're still hungry for liberty oriented audio content. Did you know that we have another twenty. Four seven audio stream at L. are in dot. FM The liberty radio network airs the latest. You just episodes of some of the best liberty oriented podcasts on the Internet around the clock in addition to recorded content. You'll also hear live shows like free talk live originating from our keene new. Oh Hampshire studio so listen anytime at L. R. N. DOT FM that's L. R. N. DOT FM. So you've signed the Shire Society Declaration and are planning your move to New Hampshire to be around more liberty oriented people next sign up for the Shire Society Forum at Forum Dot Shire Society Dot Com. There are a bunch of people there who are already in the Shire and they want to meet you. If you're already in the Shire physically you should also come by the forums. Remember not everyone uses facebook new people are signing up for the Shire Society. See for him every month so drop in and say Hello at Forum Dot Shire Society Dot Com now more of the freshest episode of Free Talk Live presented by CA. I listen online at FREETALKLIVE DOT com. It's free talk live and you can bring up whatever you one here. The toll free number is eight five four fifty free like freedom. That's eight five five four five zero three seven three three. You can bring up anything That you want. That's the point here. We also the discord call in line rooms just head over to discord dot L. R. N.. DOT FM coming up. People are going crazy over ver. This Popeye's chicken sandwich. I don't know if you've heard anything about this. Chris did you hear about it when it first came out. Notice just Popeye. Chicken Sandwich is really. Oh my God I'm assuming Popeye's restaurant or yes popeye's is a fast food chain that but Popeye's in in New Jersey. I don't know of any in the northeast I've never even heard. There's definitely some in the northeast thinking. NASHUA Nashua there's a couple in the Boston area or whatever. I don't think there's anything out this way in New Hampshire. But I'm surprised you haven't heard of Popeye's chicken joint joint fried chicken of that chicken from southern like Like a Louisiana Right. I think I think it's like southern style or easier. Cajun style or something like that. I honestly I'm not intimately familiar with. Pop is only been there a few times in my life but they came out with a chicken sandwich. This year. The Spicy Chicken Sandwich that people went bat s insane for lining up like around the block to get this fast food food. Chicken Fried Chicken Sandwich got whacked for one of these sandwiches this week. Yeah that happened this week. So what happy. Well we'RE GONNA WE'RE GONNA get into it coming up here here it's just people are crazed about these chicken sandwiches and I'm not saying this because they're a sponsor and or anything like that it's sponsor no they're not Eboni it'd be happy sandwiches in here but they actually ran out. They completely sold out of their chicken sandwich when they first put it on special a couple of months ago and they weren't able to get it back into stock until just this last week and so now people have been going crazy over them again. We'll tell you more about it coming up here but I also want to make sure that you know about bitcoin. Dot Com specifically local DOT. BITCOIN DOT COM. That is the part of BITCOIN DOT com. It's a big site. BITCOIN DOT COM but local. BITCOIN DOT COM allows you to buy and sell bitcoin cash. 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Coming up the Popeye's chicken but let's let's stick with the police here since we started out with the story about the massive hemp bust. I that New York. It is healthy victory. Because he's cops are pretty dumb but seems like an understatement. Maybe maybe the dumbest cops of the year But they believe this is real marijuana and they're holding onto it until they know for sure otherwise. It doesn't matter what the paperwork apor work says with it. It doesn't matter what the Independent Lab that was certifying the product task to say. They need to find out for themselves. So they're going to hold onto one hundred in six pounds of hemp flowers. That to be fair do look a lot like your typical cannabis that will get you high. But that's as far as the similar similarities. Go as they just look alike. So that was the The first story. You're welcome to comment on that. But you've gotTA related police a story Chris and it. This is about the Breathalyzer units and I have not read this piece. That you you have to share with US tonight. But is it about the The fancier units that they have at the police stations for the way they described. It is all breathalyzer units so both the ones on the road roadside and in the police station police station are supposed to be more accurate. That's right But apparently because they're not being maintained well it turns out that they're or not and I know there was a lawsuit about this and I don't know if that's what you're gonna be telling us about here So feel free to to pull up that story and let's get into it because I know there was like a class action lawsuit against one of the companies that manufacturers these units that go into the police station station the big this that is this story because this stories about how they're you know. They're they do work as advertised. I guess but they're not. They're calibrate if they're calibrated and maintained but apparently the police departments across the country are not maintaining them not a surprise a scientific instrument after all right and bureaucrats are lazy so they may have intended to maintain them. You know they got other things to do so. This story is from the New York Times papers to push pencils and the title. All of it is these machines can put you in jail. Don't trust them. Alcohol Breath Tests Lynch pin of the criminal. Justice system are often unreliable a times investigation and found a million Americans. A year are arrested for drinking and driving and most stops begin the same way fishing flashing blue lights in the rear view mirror then a battery of tests that might include standing on one foot or reciting the alphabet which you by the way in some states are not obligated. Gated to do those tests now. Each state has different rules as far as what they can do to you if you refuse to do. The roadside tests disturbed sure but in a lot of cases. And this isn't legal advice every state's got different rules about this. You should do your own research and a lot of cases. You're better off if you don't take those roadside tests they lose your license for some amount of time. This is an interesting so I don't know what the story is all states but I have looked into this a little bit and again. I'm not a lawyer so you're also not a drinker either. Amazon awesome drinker but I have been subjected to a road. Roadside breath a roadside stop for. Do for Testing Pretty New Hampshire Jersey near Jersey. Here's yeah and unfortunately at the time I didn't know what my rights were right. And that's what they count. So I did actually proceed to you know. I don't remember exactly exactly we did but I got out of the car and I did their little Hop in I don't even remember like you know there's a few of them. Yeah like you know still wine walk forward tonight. Something something something and but in New Jersey and this is also the case in New Hampshire. You could actually views now. That doesn't mean you. Can I mean if you refuse they can take your license away but you don't they can take your sins away until after they've taken it to the station and giving you an opportunity to blow into the station Breathalyzer and ice nice when your license taken away so on the side of the road you can refuse to do the clear. You're saying that New Jersey again. You're not a lawyer either. All right standing us so let me see understood this. You said that on the side of the road you can refuse those tests and they can't take your license for refusing those but then they take you back to the station if you refuse the big one then they right exactly if the officer decides that your They're basically officer decides to take you to the station right after he refused and they will and they probably will. They will have you. They have to make you blow it or not. They have to offer to have you blow into the breathalyser again. If you refuse at that point it's only then in which your license can be taken away six months. I don't know what the timeframe is. And that might differ between New Jersey and New Hampshire but either way it's it's at that point in which it's called the chemical breathalyzer. Okay that's the one you can't refuse. And now these machines all of them are under some level of question. Exactly what you're going to tell us more about that coming up here in moments. Maybe you've got some experience getting pulled over by the police and refusing breathalyzers. How does it go in your state? the toll free free number here is eight fifty five four hundred fifty free like freedom. This is free talk live. Do you have a qualified plan an IRA four one K.. For one three B or some other type type of investment account. 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And you can follow us on the decentralized mastodon platform at toot DOT FREETALKLIVE DOT com. So please follow us at toot. You DOT FREETALKLIVE DOT COM and sign up for our emails at News Dot Freetalklive Dot Com. We have some good news. Indictments against Roy celebrate in the district of Maryland were or dismissed with prejudice. Meaning they can never be refiled. This is especially good because those indictments contain the only charge ever made that Ross engaged in murder-for-hire this was a serious allegation at Ross outbreak. Denies it was never prosecuted or rolled on by jury put was trumpeted by the federal government and the media. As if it were proven fact the Maryland Court and help these indictments for almost five years poisoning. Ross's case and leaving him under a cloud of unproven allegations as explained in Ross's appeal to the Supreme Court the fact that the judge used these allegations to give her all say Dirk lenient sentence of Double Life Without Parole violated his sixth amendment right to a jury. Trial judges are required to issue sentas based on convictions. decided by a jury not unproven. Unproven allegations never even charged trial. Although this is a positive development that dropped indictment will not set rolls free now. A presidential pardon is Ross. His only hope the freedom sign the petition at free. Ross dot org free Ross Dot Org. You're tuned to the newest episode of Freetalklive live presented by Seiko. Ci Visit US online at Freetalklive DOT COM It's free talk. Live dial in toll free here. Number is eight fifty five four fifty free free coming up the insanity in the streets over Popeye's chicken sandwich it's back and it's even worse apparently than it was just a couple months ago but also WanNa make sure you know about edge. Wallet is a great cryptocurrency. Wallet was just helping somebody get set up with one of these today. There there was a young gentleman from the local college. WHO's doing a report on crypto currency and One of our time. co-hosts Vincent said. Hey Go talk talk to Ian Because you know I know a thing or two about it. and He came over here. We did like an hour long interview. He had a lot of good questions and I had them download edge wallet because he had never had any crypto currency before and so it's a great wallet for people who are brand new but also for experts. People who've been around Crypto for a long time. I use it every time time I buy something in keene which I can actually go and buy things in real life here which is pretty cool with crypto currency and so edge makes that easy go to edge DOT APP to learn more about the technology behind edge or just download the wallet from your apple or Google APP stores you can buy sell trade and securely hold various different cryptocurrencies like bitcoin. BTC see see dash. bitcoin cash their various their tokens minero ripple stellar and many more go to edge happens. Secure your freedom with edge while all it is we continue tonight. It's Ian. Nobody and Chris Chris. You are just scratching the surface here on a New York Times piece about Breathalyzer technology specifically the stuff that is in use at various police departments around the United States. And they're saying be careful because there's a good chance that that tech is not configured correctly that it has maybe it was configured correctly when the company first came to install it but then they left behind the calibration instructions auctions. And maybe the department you're dealing with. Didn't follow them. Maybe they haven't calibrated that machines since it was first installed and if they haven't then you need to find out about that for your discovery if you're going to trial so you can ask them about it. It may be worth taking it to trial so what it amounts to absolutely really so. Tell me more what matters most though happens next by the side of the road or at the police station the drivers blow into a miniature science lab estimates the concentration intrusion of alcohol in their blood if that level is point Oh eight or higher they are all but certain to be convicted of a crime but those tests a bedrock. The criminal justice system are often unreliable and New York Times investigation found. The device is found in virtually every police station in America generate skewed results with alarming the frequency even though they are marked as precise to the third decimal place judges and mass in New Jersey have thrown out more than thirty thirty thousand Breathalyzer tests in the past twelve months alone. WHOA WHOA that doesn't include all of the thousands of tests that are thrown out in other state that's incredible largely because of human errors and lack governmental oversight across the country thousands of these tests also invalidating recent years? The machines are sensitive scientific instruments and in many cases. They haven't been properly calibrated yielding results. What's that were at times? Forty percent too high. Jeez wow. Maintaining machines is up to police departments. That sometimes have shoddy standards and lack expertise in some cities lab officials have used still or homebrew chemical solutions. That a warped results. What's so you have to? You have to have some sort of a chemical in this device and they didn't go back to the manufacturer to to get the you know the official stuff they clean it properly right but it said they use like homebrew homebrew meeting material. When they need to use specialized fluids in order to clean Eh? That was for cleaning. I thought there was like some sort of chemical in it was for Clinton but it's clear in article. Yeah okay it gets worse. I WanNa hear this. Some of these machines have rats nesting inside nice and warm in there now. That's not so we're talking. The story is mostly covering How they're not being maintained properly right but guess what? The machines themselves have programmatic issues. Oh Oh technical. Experts have found serious programming mistakes in the machine software so it goes a lot farther God just not being maintained improperly states picked up devices to find him guilty yeah press one to find A. Va See above point. Zero eight press to you to let him go. Yeah I wouldn't surprise. I would not be surprised at all if they if there was you. Know some tricks of the trade. That officers know how to use in order to get a conviction even when there's not there's no actual evidence right. Being drunk states picked up devices that their own experts didn't trust and have disabled old safeguards meant to ensure the accuracy I'm going to repeat that the cops have literally disabled safeguards words meant to ensure a test accuracy. So there's you Kinda like I remember when you if you ever looked at an arcade machine there's dip switches and you can throw the switches to have the arcade machine do different things right so you want to be in free play mode you can t throw a switch and then you don't have to put a quarter in or whatever there's different configurations that you can do. So maybe there's like a a little switch that they can throw in the configuration menu or physical hardware. Switch that just you know. We'll just we'll just turn off off the extra checking. Well we'll turn off stage three here and make the thing less accurate but in the direction of finding more people guilty. That's exactly what's going on on you. So all those people all truck drivers that they are claiming to get off the street me. How many of them were real? That's the question and as you said was what thirty thousand between Lina thousand just between mass and New Jersey to states in one twelve month period is that it's an incredible number of people whose lives have been harmed in a significant manner. Because if you think about this if you get busted for Dui when all you had was one beer or something like data out at the you know you're out at dinner with your mom or whoever you come back home and You you've had a beer but in and you don't know you're right so you blow into into this this thing and then all of a sudden handcuffs are on you and You don't know your rights so you go ahead and plead guilty because seems like all the evidences. This is against you even though you didn't feel like you were that drunk Plead guilty and you're done your in. You don't get to undo something like that after the fact and this happens thousands of ten thousands hundreds of thousands millions of times every single year. You don't make it to to work the next morning because you got arrested you still sitting in the drunk tank. Well Good Luck. I mean maybe if your boss really likes you hill keep you on but a lot of people are going to lose their jobs over this even if they find find out you got a Dui you might lose your job and you may lose your job because you can't get to work because you can't drive there ain't even be convicted and most places will fire you. Yeah it's a merely the accusation. It's merely the arrest and that's I find that absolutely despicable disturbing. I wish more I would stand behind behind the for any corporation but also also is another reason to say they should be liable for effectively slander When they make an arrest you mean the police? Ace Yeah Yeah. I guess we'll be liable because it's in writing but yes they're lying about you. Well I mean it depends on whether or not they speak it or write it but yeah they wrote it down trust me. It's sure sure sure on the record. Yeah and this is. It's a we continue. This is absolutely insane. County judge in Pennsylvania when you called it extremely questionable whether n any I'm going to repeat any of his states breath tests could withstand serious scrutiny. Not Not a single one in response. Local prosecutors stopped using them in Florida. A panel of judges described their states instruments as magic black boxes assist with significant end continued anomalies. And it gets worse so magic convicts have. Are these effectively these devices written into law. Now just remember that. This is literally written into the law because expert. He's GonNa you're gonNA find even more disturbing. Industry veterans said the machines should not be factor arbitrators of guilt. The tests were never meant to be used that way. Well what the hell were. They meant to be a useful so effectively. They have a product. That's exclusively for that type of use and yet it's not supposed to be used that way because they don't work the way effectively. I believe they're advertised to lie. Detectors aren't admissible in court. Things that's true straight using right sorry effectively. They shouldn't be using these in the court and they are either mandated in law. All right. There's more coming up here to this story. Eight fifty four fifty free. If you WANNA weigh in you can. This is free talk. Hunters Anglers Campers and survivalists. Get back to nature expand. Your Horizons Horizons with the highest quality. Most versatile unique slingshots and sling bows on the market at SLINGO DOT com slash products compaq and model. Start from just seventeen ninety eight. They're perfect for your bug out bag or storing in your vehicle. Give yourself and your loved. 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They weren't inebriated enough But yet when they blew into the Breathalyzer it showed them them as being legally drunk they then of course not knowing about you know anything about the court system. Most people don't know they've seen judge Judy or judge wapner or something like that but they you know unless they've actually been inside the court system and have had real experience with it. It's an intimidating process. The whole thing is designed from top to bottom to boggle your mind and intimidate you into just wanting it all all to go away all right I'll take the guilty plea I know I didn't. I wasn't drunk. I disagree with this result. But I'll go ahead take and you should be intimidated because even when you're right right you only have a fifty percent chance of winning and if that right if that so you know it's like even under the perfect circumstances he got video evidence of everything and audio and and the cop clearly was violating your rights. Well still fifty percent chance. I think you'd being really optimistic with fifty percent. I know I know you're probably right. Sent seven percent of these cases. Plead out that's right. This is of cases in general so a lot of those people people are innocent. Sure absolutely. Yeah it's worse at the federal level to it is it really is So now there's a big story in the New York Times. Basically Lee calling into question all of these breathalyzers not just the street. You know initial breathalyzer but the ones the fancy units. The expensive really expensive units back at the police station the really official breathalyzers. They're saying that The thing you just read this New York Times story was the manufacturers are claiming that this wasn't is an even intended to be used as firm evidence someone's drunken yeah I it wasn't. It was never intended that way. And I mean that's how it seems to have been marketed all these years but apparently The the people who actually engineered the device Say That's not actually. They're not accurate now. I've never had a DUI do dui lawyers like subpoena the maintenance records on these things can with radar gun. UH-HUH I would think if they're a good lawyer they would do something active. I would think so too but I mean this might be new information. This may open up a whole new. This isn't new new information. This has been around for years because a friend of mine you I in Florida extent of it though is new information well. The fact that it's in the New York Times is is is new but a friend of mine got a Dui down in Florida. When I was there six years ago or something like that and he had been made aware of of this case that was going on against the manufacturer of many of these official devices calling into question their accuracy so this has been boiling doing for a while and and so do I have have been challenging these things? That's why we have this major story now because it's been challenged enough off to where even these judges who's this. Yeah there's been source code demanded by some more intelligent and knowledgeable technical people And so forth and unfortunately I don't necessarily know that the end result of that was positive. I think they ended up just dropping that particular case so the sources were never released so we couldn't find the actual issues with the software itself. But yeah I mean if everybody demands the source code eventually they're going to have to just keep dropping all the cases. That's the thing won't they. Don't have the source code the police departments and so they wouldn't be able to provide even if they he wouldn't even bill even if they had the source code right they would be able to provide a because they're under contract and whatever to to not do throughout the case them they naturally. You wouldn't really. We demand the source code from the Police Department. You'd have to subpoena the manufacturer And demand the source code from them. Because you can subpoena anybody who has information information about your case. They don't have to be a party to it. I mean it's the question is is that Software actual evidence though and it's not it's it's only determines Herman's whether or not the evidence is accurate so part of the chain of custody of the evidence then in theory. I don't know I think should be. I'd have to ask a lawyer. Yeah Yeah I mean that's what they remembered. They're counting on people to not get a lawyer and so they're counting on even if the let's say the the Sales Rep for this company. Whoever the manufacturers are these these devices the sales rep comes into the police department and maybe he was honest with the police department? He tells them look. Look guys this. This isn't this isn't designed to have a a real firm. You know picture of how drunk somebody is. It's just a kind of roundabout estimate estimate but you can probably use it to make people think they're drunk and therefore the they'll take a plea deal so laws passed look muddy. The machine says you're drunk here we're GONNA take deplete desire but there's a law there's actual laws passed. This is a lot more than some sales guy going into the police Marmot. They've they've literally gone to stay states states. It's and lobbied for laws that specify how much alcohol in the blood and what machines do you think that they were lobbying over. The laws passed after by the machines. Sheen's so of course this is not this is more it's more nuanced than just some sales guy trying to sell something totally station I'm being honest about it. Every state punishes drivers who refused to take one when ordered by a police officer. They're talking about the the consequences of the legal. System's reliance on. These tests are far-reaching. People are wrongfully convicted based on dubious evidence. Hundreds were never notified. Their cases were built on tests. Yeah and so this is another thing. That's in the United States. You're basically the prosecutor supposed to notify somebody of anything thing that might be to their exculpatory evidence right. Excellent exactly and they're basically saying that that didn't happen and when flaws flaws are discovered that in feary that should be a criminal matter for the prosecutor meaning the themselves. Yeah well yeah. It's besides unlikely but there have been a couple of times when prosecutors have been prosecuted and then slapped on the hand even if they I'm sure they don't get what they should get which she's drawn and corner some along those lines and we'll plans flaws are discovered the solution has been to discard the results. Sharon potentially actually dangerous dry rush off the hook. A man backed his car into an eighty three year. Old Woman outside of the liquor store and then failed field. Sobriety detests another man was stopped after vomiting out the window and veering all over the road. One more driver with a suspended license was pulled over and blew a point three to a level of people unconscious all things. I'm not even mad. I'm just impressed. Yeah you have to wonder was that was that was right or is that just absolutely maybe it was actually point three two and the thing was just really badly right so maybe he should've maybe he was point what he's what he's what he scored but obviously point three two. It's a lot. Yeah Yeah Okay all right so I guess I was thinking point three two. Yeah Yeah Yeah. So maybe maybe he was drunk legally drunk but it wasn't to that degree right now and I just goes probably the evidence the fact that the machine was not. Because I don't think you could. I mean it sounds like anyway. You probably can't actually get that John There are some real pros who can get that drunk. They really get that truck end and still live and like live and there are some pro. Oh drunk hardcore drinkers out there. That really hammer it back. I'm not sure what point three two like is. It sounds like it's almost like beyond believable. Watch all three were arrested and charged point four is usually fatal according to the Internet here. I'm pretty close here. So yeah I mean the sounds it sounds to me like you know. It's it's a little hard to believe chance. It was in inaccurate reading. There have been some amazing stories of some really faced people who've managed to like stand up. Yeah Yeah I know there's some pretty Crazy drunks over there Or out there. Let's see here so they're throwing out a bunch of cases. Yeah let's see. I'm trying to see if there's anything else here is really worth reading Handheld devices like Trooper Trooper Hinz a AH Alco sensor. Five contain fuel cells that react to the alcohol exhaled breaths generate an electric current the stronger the current the higher the alcohol level. They're expensive and easy to maintain but the results can be inconsistent And you have to update the fuel cells or whatever. There's like a replacement that you have to get after some amount amount of time otherwise it becomes even more inaccurate Older women sometimes have trouble producing enough breath to get the machines to work toothpaste mouthwash and breath mints even a hand sanitizer and moving may throw off the test. Results tests from those portable. Machines are not administrable admissible. Well in court in most states California is among the exceptions so yeah in Carson California. Yeah I definitely think there are some states that are worse than others in this. I regard but The toll free number missing. Do you want to join us here. Eighty five four fifty free. There is a lesson to be learned from all this and that is. Don't take the plea deal you need to. I know what the evidence is against you. They may not even have a case. This is free. Talk Life Balance of nature changing the world one life at a time. There's not rehearse I'm just some cursing that was the commercial. And then you know what Bruce in vegetables. How can I go wrong? At one point I was GonNa stop taking it and then I got a message thing that even if you stop taking

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