20 Episode results for "Indian School"

09-07-20 Building the next generation of Native leaders

Native America Calling

56:30 min | Last month

09-07-20 Building the next generation of Native leaders

"Welcome to native America calling from Studio Forty nine in Albuquerque I'm Tara Gate would. The Leadership Institute. Summer Policy Academy out of the Santa Fe Indian school is helping native. American. Youth in New Mexico for the richness of their culture into forming strong leadership skills. Today will visit some of those who created this unique opportunity and find out why they use these gifts handed down from the past generations to fortify a resilient future. Stay tuned for this special prerecorded broadcast on native youth that's coming up right after national made news. This is National Native News Antonio Gonzales the four Pekka cinnabon and Sioux tribes in Montana recently completed a large intertribal transfer of Bison Wyoming Public Radio Savannah Mar reports. The forty buffalo were rounded up into semi trailers. In Wolf Point Montana they're headed to new homes with sixteen different tribes as far away as the United Nation in Wisconsin and Ludik tribe of Old Harbor Alaska. Urban Carlson is president of the intertribal Buffalo Council which facilitated the transfer. He says, the animals were part of a surplus population at Yellowstone National Park and would otherwise have been slaughtered today. Is Real. Gratifying. Just to be able to get some animals out of there, and then out to Chives, the Buffalo spent a year in quarantine on the fort pack reservation to ensure their disease free. Johnny Bear Cub, stiff arm has the Tribes Buffalo Program. She says, this transfer was a long time coming. We have drum group out here and they'll sing the songs they'll sing. Songs to send the Buffalo safely to their new homes, they travel safe and receive blessings. And say goodbye to enforce and we'll send them on their way. For National Native News I'm. Savannah Mark. A new art degree programs being offered to students at the University of Alaska Southeast, which is part of a larger vision that's been in the works for years to establish a north. West Coast Arts Hub Kate. Elizabeth Jenkins has more. The new degree program is a partnership between the University of Alaska, southeast Sealaska Heritage, Institute, and the Institute of American Indian Arts in Santa. Fe. New Mexico the agreements were signed a few years ago, but it's taken some time to line everything up Cari groove in the our director at Sealaska Heritage Institute says there's a lot of room for growth. We are mealy great. Now that exists in the first place, the program is a two year degree with a focus on north west coast indigenous art. As part of the new program students are required to take an intro course into relevant native languages. Then their hands on our classes to choose from some of the courses have been offered before by the university and some are brand new for instance and claimed Weaver Lily hope is teaching an online class about career development as an artist students enrolled in the program, we'll have the option to transfer credits to the University of New Mexico if they want to pursue a bachelor's degree. Groove and things kind of comprehensive academic offering is long overdue. She says, many people are familiar with the region's form line design, but the associate's program is a way to gain deeper understanding in a way that. Associates degree provides a starting point for that journey with Cova Nineteen. Some of the courses will be offered online in some will still happen in person in accordance with universities pandemic plan, and in the future students will be able to experience some of these classes on a brand new campus. SEALASKA heritage has already started breaking ground on a six thousand square foot facility in downtown Juneau. The campus is slated to be completed sometime next year I'm Elizabeth, Jenkins. Powell's are being held virtually this Labor Day due to the cove in nineteen pandemic the online social distance Powell facebook group has been helping connect vendors, dancers, and singers for the last six months over the weekend. Dancers took part in contests uploading their videos to be judged and win prizes. I'm Antonio Gonzalez. National Native News is produced by Colonic Broadcast Corporation with funding by the corporation for public broadcasting. Support by the Center for Indigenous Cancer Research at Roswell Park Comprehensive Cancer Center dedicated to Cancer Research Medicine and cancer care for indigenous population. The no charge online risk assessment tool is available at Roswell Park Dot org slash assess me. As an American Indian or Alaskan native, you help elders, young people and native businesses. When you exercise your right to vote November third, your vote makes a difference in Washington DC and at home go to native news dot net for more information brought to you by the Carnegie Corporation of New York. Native Voice One, the native American Radio Network. This is native America calling I'm Tara gatewood preparing our next generation to lead need of nations is an important step in ensuring stronger future for our communities. The Summer Policy Academy to is an initiative of the leadership institute at the Santa Fe Indian school. This year the program took a different turn because of the coronavirus pandemic, it went virtual despite having to take things online interesting conversations took place between youth from the tribal nations of new, Mexico and some of their mentors from the academy they focused in on issues like the legacy of colonization community planning restorative justice and education is a tool of simulation among other topics and together youth. From, our different native communities here in New Mexico were able to dialogue and express their thoughts and opinions of the Times that we are in as well as the future of tribal nations and so today on this prerecorded version of native America calling. We're going to sit down with some of the folks from the academy to hear about the learning that took place in the importance of. Preparing our youth to leader needed nations. If you'd like to share some thoughts today, you can always text them to us on facebook or you can even send them to us on twitter at one, eight, hundred, nine, nine native, and you can always send us an email comments at native America calling dot com again or phone lines are closed today, but we look forward to introducing you. To some really great folks that we have on the line. So let's go ahead and do that. We are going to go to Santa Fe New Mexico to say hello to the former governor coach Pueblo reaches Paco's who is also the CO founder the Leadership Institute and the Summer Policy Academy. My pleasure to have him here today in Regis welcome and please feel free to further introduce yourself Thank you very much Tara. I really appreciate this opportunity to share the journey and the vision of the leadership institute that is today in its twenty third year, as an indigenous think tank, and among the many different programs developed over the last Twenty plus years is, of course, the subject of our discussion today the Summer Policy Academy to, and I'd be happy to elaborate as we move this discussion forward. In so regis. I'm looking forward to hearing just exactly about this and and how things got started, but this is an unprecedented year many things are going on because of the coronavirus pandemic and you took things online, which sometimes is a feat in itself to pull things off like that. But understanding that you were able to set some time aside to talk to young people. During this time. I think is really important, and this is definitely going to be a time period that many people in the future are looking back and wondering what were native people seeing people saying, what were they feeling because? I know we have certainly done that thinking about past pandemics and reaches anything you'd like to say about just touching in with our youth during these times. Yes, tear up. This is really a critical time of for for the young generation of folks within our communities. Ordinarily the Summer Policy Academy. Now in its fourteen year would have taken high school students, juniors, and seniors, and those entering their freshman year in college in our partnership with Princeton University at the School of public policy but unfortunately. In this time of the pandemic we were interrupted, but in talking with our faculty, this particular child, it's really May in fact, become a blessing in disguise as we look both at the present day challenges with online education. But as we look at ways in which we rise to meet the challenge with regard to a new form of education that is unprecedented brought forth by the pandemic. So we were not going to allow for the incredible young people who participated in our. Summer Policy Academy one, which is a summer program that one engages young people to be grounded in no way the history of our communities, the journey of our elders, the gift of our Creator are gifted core values and how fade and ceremony really provide to agree to give life and spirit to live in this way. So in talking with our extraordinary faculty, all of them agreed that we should pursue and not then I our young people with a virtual policy academy to. Twenty twenty program. So we took the the eighteen students. Into this verger virtual program over the course of several weeks in a similar way that that we were able to travel to Princeton University for that unique exposure and one of the most prestigious education institutions we brought the virtual program into the homes into the communities through our our faculty in the course of several weeks to focus on some of the immediate issues of relevant in their lives, of course, the endemic and in introducing them to the long history as our elders. Teach that this this isn't the first kind of challenge and of course, being confined to their communities. The consciousness about space and places gifted to us wasn't in was an intentional area of focus to be conscious about the maintenance of the vibrancy of our communities and these spaces and the environment that we come from as well as taking advantage of this virtual opportunity in read shaping re imaging redesigning education virtually as education is an is an important part in the is. It truly is in Regis with what took police would you like to describe or how would you like to put it of your actually preparing the leaders of our future generations and in our tribal nations me more about that too in folks again, doing remind you today's program is prerecorded. If you'd like to make some comments, go ahead do it on facebook reaches. Glad. visit has always been in transforming the cultural knowledge into this contemporary world that we are part of. So the intense intense analogy of our engagement is to increase their knowledge of history. Developing skills for research reading writing public speaking with an analytical mind appreciating that the challenges we face today in our communities are deeply rooted in history. So everything that we do is through those lands but using. Core values to ask how are these issues and the decisions that were making strengthening our core values or how are the decisions were making at multiple levels moving us further away from our core values. So it is everything to do about intense analogy, and the hope is to move young people into public policy positions as they pursue their careers. Lying with people from our communities who are engaged in the multitude of work at the local level, the state and federal levels that we create for this incredible network of young and senior professionals, cultural leaders, community leaders to unite and bring together young people into this mix. And so when you take that kind of approach I think it's really interesting to think about it in that way because sitting here in front of this microphone. Week after week and hearing the different things that are tribal nations. They do go back to some of those core issues in our response is tribal nations is definitely a lot of times dependent on core values and how we feel even about the connection to our land in. So when you take this approach in kind of break it up into these different categories of understanding our community it's really great to also hear that young people are being involved. In that too, and so we're going to continue here, and if you just tuned in, we are pre recorded were not taking calls. So your invitation today's to sit back into here exactly some of this planning that's taking place for our futures tribal nations. A group of young people were able to sit down and think about all of these different issues and then we got to voice their opinions. On this today, we are visiting with folks from the Summer Policy Academy Regis. Paco's is on the line with us today, and this is something that he has devoted a lot of his life to ensuring that our young people have that pathway. We'll hear from some of the mentors coming up after the break to and just exactly what the young people told them and some of the discoveries. That were made and maybe this summer was an important summer for you. Your community your family to really think about how all of these things connect and when you think about creating leaders of the future what is important? What are some of the core values you hope that they are learning picking up and maybe even teaching others about you can always share thoughts with us by sending us in. The Senate comments AT NATIVE AMERICA CALLING DOT com. But we appreciate anytime you tune into these public airwaves and when we get a chance to hear from our youth, we open our ears really big and just hearing their ideas and thoughts for the future is important. We're going to hear from some of the youth to coming up after the break and will also learn why looking at tribal nations through this lens can create maybe even change or bring us more answers about things we're facing today join us to on twitter at one, eight, hundred, nine, nine native will continue with this conversation here today native America callings talking circle is open hang tight. There is more ahead. Yea. Whether it's politics science needed culture or entertainment, the new stories that impact and effect native communities or what you'll hear right here on native America calling join us as we bring you the nation's first and only electronic talking circle native America calling live Anita Voice One, the native American Radio Service. He Joan where are you going? I'm a census taker I'm going around to get an accurate count of all American Indians and Alaskan natives why not just go the enrollment office and get our numbers it's not about enrollment. It's the twenty. Twenty cents is the count of people living in the US. With all happening. Is it safe? Yeah. We're wearing masks making sure all safety measures are in place. How can I help when I come knock on your door, open it in your mask we'll do it's not too late shape our future start here at twenty twenty cents G. O. V. Paid for by US Census Bureau. Thanks for tuning in here, Today on native America calling interrogate would from is a Pueblo and we appreciate you joining us here on these airwaves. Today's program is prerecorded. So our phone lines are not open, but you are more than welcome to sit back and take in our look at the Summer Policy Academy, which is an initiative of the leadership institute here with us is the Co founder of the Institute Regis, Paco's and he is joining us today out of Santa, fe New Mexico, and Regis. You know what? Let's go ahead and just hear the words of our young people. This is one of the youth that is a part of this year's Academy, and here's some reflection on just life in where she stands today, we're going to go now to Natasha Crispin. That they're a time coaches. There's with this pandemic stay at home. I think it's really good for our people to reconnect with the earth It gives us a sense of connection to our ancestors and tour traditions and ever since the time phone as. We've Kinda lost connection being that we were forced to forget about those things but definitely think that it gives us sense of reassurance about who we are and the importance of Orlando and just I guess giving us a sense of connection to our people and it's really important that farming now is. A good way for us mean that many of the Frisians have been shut down and we can just rely on the land again I think it's really good that many of the farmers are going back out there and many people are getting involved in for me. In Regis go back to you Natasha was part of a group that looked at the landscape in connection to the land in hearing her lesson of understanding why it's important to have that I. Think. Inspires many people to just knowing that our young people care about those connections in Regis, and you want to say after hearing one of the youth that went through the program this year. Her remarks as what makes all of this were. Inspiring to be able to instill that kind of love and to connect. That the very elements that define Natasha's entity as gifted to her by her elder community is a very significant part of the past to connect to the president and the inspiring words with regard to deepen the her understanding of play away of life as she's so eloquently articulated it's really the intent of this engagement of our Summer Policy Academy so that it help to deepen the understanding to create a passion for her land, her culture, her language, her people so that it helps to define a pathway toward. Furthering the development of her skills and tools with which to contribute to the maintenance and the vibrancy of a community that obviously through her words she loved very deeply. Into Regis, we are going to mean to one of the people who had the honor of connecting with these young people. They join us today out of Santa Fe New Mexico to with us on the line is Dr Amanda Montoya. She is the director of the Jamaica Foundation and she is house and okay a wing gay doctor Montoya Thank You for being here with US welcome to native. America calling. Good afternoon. Thank you for having me. In. I, know you go by Amanda Amanda set it up for us because we are going to hear how some of these things were broken up in focus that young people were able to take. You took on the issues of community planning Tell me a little bit about why focus on this and of course, what the youth do and see. For that question So community planning God from what I discovered from our students is that. Students really don't know about community planning and that it is a profession that is greatly needed in our indigenous communities. So a lot of our SPA students stay that they're interested in helping their communities but not really exactly sure on how they can go about it. So when I introduced them to community planning, it's kind of an eye opening experience for them. They learned that community planning is all encompassing and that community that includes several areas of the community for me. I do have a background in community planning prior to my position with the Jamaica Foundation, I used to be the community development plan for Taus Pablo, and while working in that position, I was involved in many things up there from education to environment transportation housing economic development. Law Health and infrastructure, and so when I take students about community planning and that you know are indigenous communities need this. They become very interested in it and a lot of the Times after I've worked with my students over the time of a SPA. They're just very interested in and happy to know that it's that it's there. So Yeah I really enjoyed. Talking to the students about this, because I'm very passionate about community planning in it also is I guess in the line two of sovereignty in wanting to see the communities or building the communities that we want to see tell me about some of the youth you worked with and what we're things that they wanted to focus on. Yes. So my three students were actually freshman in college and so I wanted to challenge them a bit more than prior students that I had. That were high school students. So because these young ladies were in the process of already you know already being in college, I wanted to challenge them a bit and so. I taught them more about secondary research and also had to do a qualitative analysis just because I want it to give them some skills that I thought that they would be able to use throughout their college time and college. In the also did presentations what were some of the things they focused on? Yeah. So they did a presentation on Community Planning and they provided some recommendations and they were interested in health and wellness programs in the community. So they recommended that public communities should focus on health and wellness programs that are addressed drug and alcohol abuse. obesity and diabetes, and mental mental health such as depression, anxiety and PTSD, and then they also wanted to include the recommendations Things that aimed towards community economic development, which would provide economic opportunities for tribal members, capacity building, and also support for tribal entrepreneurs and another area that they were really interested in not just in my group but it seemed like across the board with our SPA students this year, they were all interested environment in cleaning up the environment so they wanted to do mandatory. So they did a recommendation for Mandatory Public Cleanup Days And then the other part of it was education. So what they found out was that what what we have learned is that a lot of public history is not taught in our in our school systems. So they were they wanted to make a recommendation that required teaching public history classes, and they thought that maybe it could happen and all tribal schools or an after school programs or maybe during summer programs inside the public. In so to come away with recommendations, what are your thoughts amended that our young people are ready to tell us what they think we should be doing or how we should be shaping her communities. I think that the recommendations to show like how much they have learned, and they see where the gaps are in the community and these are there this is their their truth. This is what they know, and this is how they feel this. These recommendations could better the livelihood and better Better to communities from their point of view I think they're great recommendations. In recent turn to you again in also rightly rightly. So your title, a governor, Paco's when you think of our youth speaking up and telling these truths, what is that really doing for our communities? and. Tomorrow. Sh- Part of their voice is internalizing this kind of dialogue within our communities. Because there really is not if you will envisioning process and what these young people are talking about is the kind of conscious. Thinking and decision making and articulating their desire of the kind of community they like to see. So well, being mentally physically and spiritually can only be created if one is conscious also about contributing to the spiritual and vibrancy of the environment that they are a part of. So these are just trivial kinds of questions and topics that we engage young people. These are immediately relevant issues in their minds in their heart in their lives that they see their families and communities and if. You're just share. These are very substantive policy and program and investment recommendations that in our work, we processed to tribal leaders to make part of a larger agenda that becomes a common agenda of affecting policy and programs and helping guy areas of needed invesment. So these are incredibly profound in fight as Dr Montoya share that is speaking truth in in very frank and honest ways in their opinion what threatens what they love most about where they come from. So their voices become a very important part of this process to be internalized in the respective communities where we come from and they represent. In Regis as a tribal leader and remembering that time when you were governor, how important is it that you know where you want to go in order to lead the people? In my life, I was tremendously blessed to be a gift that. which and and opportunities to deepen my sense of purpose and lie, and the question that we asked our leadership institute is what will be your contribution that question really come from the kind of experience gift to us as young people in our communities where one we are taught by example, and in the multiple contextual setting that enriches our lives. So for us as the Leadership Institute Creating conceiving the Summer Policy Academy is really deeply embedded and at the heart of its purpose and vision is to create the kind of intense analogy, the in creating pathways to develop and acquire skills and tools necessary and creating pathways back home to be part of the community when people know how it is that they can contribute and when people know that it is really a lifelong commitment of German by the passion and desire to contribute to the vibrancy of the communities that one help to raise them and raise. As we have become adult members of our respective communities. Well, it's really great to think of how we do come full circle and you can share your thoughts. What are you thinking today email him to us comments at native America calling or tweet them to us at one, eight, hundred, nine, nine, native, our phone lines are close today we are prerecorded, but we are connecting with community. Still let's go ahead and grow this circle also on the line today is Preston Sanches A, who is an attorney? And is the indigenous law attorney with the American Civil Civil Liberties Union. He is from the Pueblos of Laguna and Hamas and he is also Dinnie our pleasure to have him here with US Preston welcomed to native America calling. Yeah thank you so much for having me. I'm I'm happy to be on this lying talking about this. Very issue related to education and young people. So thank you. In so Preston, you worked with Youth and took a deep dive into education, and this summer was also a very exciting summer for you as well. In the work you do as an attorney and you had a chance to connect both those tell me a little bit about this experience in teaching the youth, and of course, anything you want to focus in on on the young people you were connected to. Yeah No, it's. It's an interesting time to say the least in the. A hearing pertaining to a big education case. here in New Mexico and education case known as Yahtzee Martinez. the Martinez Lawsuit is a lawsuit that went before Judge in two thousand eighteen and and was ruled in favor of of the plaintiffs and the the judge basically said that, yes, the school system serving public school students in. New. Mexico is is inadequate. It's insufficient. It doesn't meet the needs of students. and. So we had a big hearing this year in this at this summer during this time in the summer June twenty ninth and that hearing was essentially to determine whether the state has done enough to satisfy. The problems that Ha- that exist for students in the public school system or whether the judge is going to and whether the judge should continue to oversee this case and so the students that I was working with had an opportunity to see that hearing happened live and they had an opportunity to see that when you have someone an attorney who's involved in a lawsuit of this magnitude. Who represents the interest of American. Indian. People that they see exactly that they can to contribute to the vibrancy of the community of. Pointed out and as Amanda pointed out that know sometimes these young people want to help, but they don't know exactly what they can do to help. So for them to be able to witness this hearing into see you know me and my role as litigated in this case, arguing before the judge what needs to be done what are the main issues impacting tribal communities are the main solutions that need to be provided to tribal communities so that native American students have a chance at succeeding academically. I think that was just a huge opportunity for them, but it was a huge opportunity for me to put pressure on me to know that my young you know the youngsters are these young people are watching me and sort of you know. Put a little more extra pressure. I, think more. So than just anyone else who might have been watching I think it really meant something for me to just have them witness this moment in history. So but that being said that the students learned a lot about education, they learned a lot about this lawsuit. Learned a lot about what it means and as a result, you know they had a chance to discuss. Their own personal experiences in education and and and really connect the dots from their personal experience to what this case this lawsuit the Ozzy Martinez lawsuit highlights as being some of the major problems impacting students especially native American students. So lots of lots of learning lots of opportunity to grow and develop and to figure out you know what they can do in the future to contribute to a better education system knowing that they have they have knowledge and you know soon, we'll have the opportunity to jump into this to this issue. Yeah. They had enough fuel to really rev them up for some of this and hearing this in hearing from everybody today just reminds me the mentorship circle is really a sacred place to because we're opening up our circles as professionals is elders as leaders as appears an opening that circle so that somebody can learn from your own life experienced to. It's really important in when we're able to take those roles I know that we learn to, and maybe you know things as a mentor from the other side and there are some thoughts you have John Down, email them to US comments at native America Calling Dot Com. There's more ahead hang tight right here on native America calling. Support by Amarin Indian countries one hundred percent tribally owned insurance partner Amarin works with tribal governments and their business enterprises to provide effective commercial insurance coverage strengthen native American communities protect tribal sovereignty and help keep dollars in Indian country more information on property liability. Compensation and commercial auto solutions at Amazon DOT COM. That's A. M. E. R.. I.. N.. D.. Dot Com. Things joining us today here on native America calling. Tara. Gatewood and we are listening to the words of the people connected to the summer policy? Academy. They had the honor of connecting with youth from new. Mexico to hear their take on the world to to hear their take on policy and to also open ears to the recommendation. Our young people are giving to us and maybe. Ways to reform our communities make it stronger. Today's program is prerecorded or phone lines are not open, but you can always tweet us at one, eight, hundred, nine, nine native on the line today with us is Preston Sanchez and attorney with the American Civil Liberties Union. He is the indigenous law attorney, and before the break person you were telling us about the youth you were working with. What did the youth you had a connection to? What did they recommend? Education is certainly something. We are all looking out now especially with schools opening up and trying to figure out new ways to maneuver a new school year what were the youth saying about what they'd like to see? Great question, and you know there's a lot to be gained from young people in the insights that they have. through their personal experiences and when you know pushed and motivated inspired to think collectively about those experiences and how they shed light on the solutions. That exists that maybe people my age and older not thinking about you know it becomes a very fruitful discussion and becomes. There could become some very strong recommendations that come out of that and so you know I had three students who really leave formulated a presentation that acknowledged three central pieces. I think to education what needs to be done i. you know the first area was that it's important to acknowledge the history of education, for American Indian people and you know one student really dive dove in deep into, you know the significance of the boarding school era and the assimilation policies that have impact to tribal communities over one. Hundred plus years ago, and that's still have a current impact on tribal communities today and what that means to to native American communities and so her suggestions you know were really to I, look at the look at the history understand what happened so that it doesn't happen again and how do we sort of restore that those problems in those harms that were caused by the assimilation in termination policies, and how do we uplift students cultural identities in the classroom so that we're not committing assimilation in public school settings ever again. a second central piece came from a student who actually graduated high school this year, but and so experienced some of the dismayed that went at that all seems had gone through when schools closed down and they were subjected to learning online remotely and what that meant for him as a as a student who maybe didn't quite have all of the technology access that needed to be able to continue education in that manner, and so he struggled a little bit to you know to to have access to the Internet and to also have access to a technology device that he can use to continue to learn but more importantly. Writing about his experiences that he actually was a student. tested positive for Covid nineteen and many of his family members also tested positive to, and so they went through the struggles of having to get healthy get well, and also you know at the same time, he's trying to maintain a learning Dick. Career as a graduating senior in high school. So just those struggles alone, really pointed to something bigger that wasn't just about him, but it was about what we need to do for the future and so how do we plan for the future was his you know his contribution to this to this to this presentation? How do we plan for the contribution? So for the future so that in the? Event something occurs again that we're not stuck in this place where students are scrambling to figure out what to do about technology whether they have access to Internet and you know in the event that family and community are maybe suffering from some sort of health issue that we're able to sort of look past the current and prepare for anything that happens and prepare for what needs to happen in the future so that That aspect of the presentation led to this third students peace and you know her her piece was really well solution overall to capture not only the history of Indian education and harms and this, and the recommendations to release reinforce cultural identity mixed with the current problems that we're dealing with today cove in nineteen pandemic school closures and the lack of access the Internet technology for students it became clear to her that there are certain things need to happen for the future including developing a comprehensive. Plan meaning the state of New Mexico given its failures to provide students a good quality education and given the failures by the state to invest in education for the long term as the judge had recognized the Martinez ruling. Recently, what her recommendation was is that we need to develop a comprehensive plan that includes major investments that are targeted to areas. Of New, Mexico they need it most, and that includes the rural areas of new, Mexico the reservations the tribal communities were students lack Internet access, for example, well. And so those are some of the key recommendations that she was able to walk away with and they as a team contributed to that tarp presentation. Imagine imagine we're all these young people will be ten years from now I'm excited for it. Preston. Thank you for sharing that with us, and we now go to another voice from this year's Academy, and this is the voice of Nathaniel Tenorio. In here he is reflecting and making those kind of connections as well. I'm thankful to have all these types of services. At my disposal. And I wanted to share that with anyone who may be feeling the same way that I would. Because I experienced these types of services firsthand and one of the most beneficial ones. Was the family counseling, act taking apart of at Butterfly Healing Center. My grandparents mother and little brother were all a part of this and we have to how we how my situation could be improved, and now I would say I'm doing better than I ever did interacting with my family. If I stayed on the past I was on when I was sixteen. I. Probably would not be here today. When we take the time to get together and figure out a root issues in collaboration. We will begin to see how much we can heal together. It is through these restorative justice focus mental and behavioral health services that would help my pillow and any others become a healthier community. And so now we go to Casey Duma who joins us today out of the White Mountains of Arizona a he's an attorney with Duma la and comes to us from Guna Pueblo and the Hoping Nation Casey thank you for being here with us in Nathaniel. Then you'll was one of your students and he he reflected on how the path he's been in is connecting two things that you all focused in on gives a little more context about his story as well as the things your youth focused on welcome Casey glad. Thank you to place to be today in the Samuel, story is one of perseverance and one that is a great example of the types of students that have come through the Summer Policy Academy. Is Story as as you elaborate song talks about his time struggling with mental health issues and how it was leading leaving through a where. Juvenile detention incarceration would be a very very quick reality for him, but looking at the types of services that he was able to. Obtain to help. Really work through a lot of the issues is stories not isolated from what many of our young people are going through today where the through the. The lack of mental behavior health resources there for our young people often. Leads, to a path of of juvenile delinquency detention proceedings, then grow into adult criminal procedures. So my group which consists with Danielson oil from you up up, well as well as more and to heal from the Sukey. Examined this issue of indigenous restorative justice how? Crucial, it is for our communities to reexamine the types of justice systems. We have adopted throughout the years and then reflect upon the gifts of our own indigenous restorative justice systems and the benefit that Nathaniel and Lauren had during this process Especially doing covert nineteen was to really have the resources right there in in their own homes of looking and asking their family their relatives. about how does WE RESOLVE DISPUTES You know prior to court systems. How do we maintain safe communities prior to adding a police force? Those types of of access to the community knowledge. Is What built that strength for their. Advocacy. regarding this issue restored is and so when we look at the issues going on day with with police reform looking at. issues like defunding police black lives matter. A lot of these issues hit home for students because they're they're looking at the way as tribes we've adapted systems that don't always compliment our core values. And so looking at restorative justice, indigenous restorative justice as a means of providing healthy communities is something that was very. Crucial for annual and and And Lauren simply because they've lived through these experiences and know the value of benefit and the power of family and community in resolving disputes and helping goes or who still need. and. So Casey, yet you know like we were hearing from Preston things unfolded this summer. The youth were able to get right in there in think and talk about it and speaking of the things that have gone on when it comes to our justice system. What are the young people to say especially seeing here's an example living in front of US challenging us to think and maybe even rethink. And you know with with a lot of the types of especially during the time that we were in session you know this is a high at the height of a lot of the protests going throughout the country. And Question of. One. How does that impact us on the National Level as native people but also, how does that impact us out of trouble level in our communities? Where the annual he would talk about this issue that when you look at examining of community policing concept of having. Police officers invested in the community who knows the community who could come from the community. He could point to the example of his own publ- of Keila where the law enforcement is made up of. Community members who are knowledgeable about language customs and how important that was for the trust to establish between those who are there to protect and those who are in the community, and so you had very specific example. Of that a lot of times with our students you know they do their education system. They are being asked to look everywhere else except our own communities for the knowledge that is there for them in their education system. So the value of the some policy academy examining these issues is is really putting attention on let's find that knowledge that exists within our communities within our families. And that it was something that was very important. So we when Lauren was looking at issues of how do we balance out the funding the investment that are tribes make? That That allow for greater resources of buildings, family community, more resources towards behavioral health and mental health. And then the issue of defend the police came up and seeing the correlation between those two thoughts of saying what we do need to equalize imbalance out the investments we make our communities. So that way our young people don't fall through the cracks of of Going, having t the justice system being the only outlet debt that addresses their their issues, and so those are the types of issues, a real life issues that our students address and they put it into a context that was relevant to their own experiences and I think that's one thing that the Summer Policy Academy does intentionally actually is make these issues that are part of the National Discussion makes them relevant to their own experiences. Wow in just thinking too about. Putting our indigenous knowledge for our life ways you know at this level and understanding. This is what can inform things. doesn't lot because a lot of times that indigenous knowledge doesn't get that kind of spotlight. We are getting close to the ended our here also with us on the line, today's the CO founder of the Leadership Institute and also the CO founder of the. Similar Policy Academy the former governor of Kochiegi Pueblo Regis Paco's and regis just hearing all of this and I know you didn't plan many of the things that unfolded this summer but it sounds like the youth you brought together saw real life and got to take it head on very inspirational and as we get ready to wrap any final comments got about a minute. CH-. Hope that sharing our experience with the country can really reaffirm the beautiful gift given to us by our creator at the time of origin creation or emergent, and they are as relevant today as they have ever been over many many generation. The reality is that in this time, we are heavily influenced towards replicating programs that are Western base, and here we are young people sharing in their aliquippa articulating that in their own communities is rich math that they're connecting to with language and culture and a way of life that Spain's thin family and community. So I hope that it is a wake up call for all indigenous peoples and they said that we are so blessed with what we have today an we asked what we want future generations to inherit from US I hope it is everything that those who gave their soccer fights and sometimes dying in their sacrifice to define our inherited. Can. Continue to beat the most precious gift that we give to all future generation and that is the ultimate. Defining element to who we are as. Indeed in what a way to wrap this up in. Thank you to everybody that we heard from today governor Regis Pickles Former Governor of coaching Pueblo Casey Duma Preston Sanchez in Dr. Amend. Montoya. As well as our youth that we also heard from Natasha Crespin as well. Isn't it? Then you'll to Norio and thank you to all the youth who opened up their to us here on native America calling I'm Tara Gatewood thank you for tuning in today. We'll meet you here when we sign live again from this electronic talking circle. Support by vision maker media's first indigenous online film festival for the safety of fans and community. The twenty twenty vision maker. Film. Festival is going digital with an online five weeks celebration of American, Indian Alaskan, native, and worldwide indigenous films from August Thirty First Talk Tober v Twenty twenty, a collective of filmmakers and native celebrities in engaging digital conversations creating a space for both healing and learning is available at vision maker media? Dot Org. Support by Roswell Park who know tribal communities, persistent challenges in health equity such as cancer and higher death rates the Centre for Indigenous Cancer Research at Roswell Park. Comprehensive. Cancer Center is dedicated to advancing cancer research that will lead to translatable science medicine and cancer care for indigenous populations worldwide on would at risk for cancer a no charge online assessment tool is available at Roswell. Park. Dot Org slash assess me. Native America calling is produced in Annenberg National Native Voice Studios in Albuquerque. New Mexico by Quantum Broadcast Corporation and native nonprofit media organization. Funding is provided by the corporation for public broadcasting with support from the Public Radio Satellite Service Music is by brands Michael David's native. The native American Radio Network.

Summer Policy Academy America Leadership Institute New Mexico Mexico attorney Paco National Native News US Preston Sanchez Tara gatewood CO founder Santa Fe New Mexico Pueblo Regis Pickles facebook Santa Fe Indian school Twenty twenty Roswell Park Ozzy Martinez
Jim Thorpe's medals restored - January 18, 1983

This Day in History Class

05:14 min | 10 months ago

Jim Thorpe's medals restored - January 18, 1983

"Here's the thing saving money with. GEICO is almost better than playing pickup basketball. Because there's always that guy who joins your game. He never passes the rock. He constantly bricks threes. And who completely hack you. And then put his hands up and say no foul no foul with GEICO. It's easy to switch switch and save on car insurance no need to fake. An ankle sprain. Because you're absolutely exhausted. So switch and save with GYCO. It's almost better than sports. The stay in history class is production of heart. Radio pay all. I'm Eve. Welcome to this day in history class. A show where we one day ship nuggets of history straight to your brain your your ear hole. Today it's January. Eighteenth Twenty twenty. The day was January eighteenth. Nineteen eighty-three more than seventy years. After after athlete Jim Thorpe won gold medals at the Nineteen Twelve Olympics. The International Olympic Committee restored his medals posthumously. James Francis this Thorpe also known as Bright Path was born in. What is now Oklahoma? He was a member of the stock and Fox nation. A tribe of sod and Misquakees People's Bulls Thorpe participated in many sports over the years. He played football and competed in track and field at Carlisle Industrial Indian school in Pennsylvania. Yeah in the summer of Nineteen Nine Thorpe went to rocky Mount North Carolina to play Minor League Baseball for a reported. Fifteen dollars a week. The college athletes often used pseudonyms when they did this so they could keep their status as amateurs but used his own name and he went back to play baseball baseball in the Eastern Carolina League splitting time between Rocky Mount and Fayette Ville in the summer of Nineteen Ten four excelled as a football player and track and field all star and he began training for the Olympics in nineteen twelve. He headed to Stockholm Sweden for the summer x chosen for the pentathlon and decathlon teams and he won gold medals in both events later that year. He returned to Carlisle to play football. 'cause victories had gained him more faint and he noted disliking all the attention but all the positive attention soon turned into negative press. Olympic athletes had to follow rules regarding amateurism those who previously played professional sports could not compete in the Games in nineteen thirteen. The Worcester telegram out of Massachusetts. Kids reported that he was paid to play baseball in the summer of nineteen o nine and nineteen ten and news spread to other sources. This meant that he was barred it from competing in the Olympics. In a letter he wrote to James Edward Sullivan. The secretary of the Amateur Athletic Union. He said the following. I hope I will be partly excused by the fact that I was simply an Indian school boy and did not know all about such things but his lack of awareness of the rules to not fly as an excuse excuse with the Amateur Union it revoked his amateur status and the International Olympic Committee stripped him his medals and took his name out of record books. Thorpe soon left Carlisle for the next couple of decades. He Played Major League Baseball and professional football. After he retired from professional no sports he took various jobs as an MC actor public speaker in Nineteen forty-three to Oklahoma legislature adopted a resolution that the Aau be petition to reinstate his records and there were later calls for the restoration of his medals but he died of a heart attack in nineteen fifty three. It wasn't until nineteen seventy-three. AAU restored his amateur status in January. Eighteenth nineteen eighty-three when the International Olympic Olympic Committee presented Thorpe's children with commemorative medals. I'm jeff coat and hopefully you know a little more about history today than you did yesterday. If there's something I missed the show today you can let us know at tea at the I H C podcast on twitter facebook or for instagram. You can also email us at this day at iheartmedia dot com. Thank you for listening to today's episode. We'll see oh you again tomorrow with another one for more podcast from iheartradio. visit the iheartradio APP apple podcasts. Or wherever you listen to your favorite shows role the million we are partnering ring with Iheartradio for our own podcast series one fan to interview the band throughout this series. We'll be finding fans different toward eight markets volume to come hang backstage stage and interview us. We'll be giving a look behind the scenes like never before and answering questions that are fans have always wanted to know checkout one fan to interview the band on the iheartradio APP apple podcasts. Or wherever you get your podcast.

Jim Thorpe Nineteen Twelve Olympics International Olympic Olympic Amateur Athletic Union Baseball GEICO football Eighteenth Twenty twenty James Edward Sullivan Carlisle Oklahoma Iheartradio basketball Carlisle Industrial Indian sch apple Stockholm Eastern Carolina League rocky Mount North Carolina Fox nation
Zitkla- born - Feb. 22, 1876

This Day in History Class

08:26 min | 8 months ago

Zitkla- born - Feb. 22, 1876

"Here's the thing saving money with. Geico is almost better than playing pickup basketball. Because there's always that guy who joins your game. He never passes the rock. He constantly bricks threes. And who completely hack you? And then put his hands up and say no foul no foul with GEICO. It's easy to switch and save on car insurance. No need to fake. An ANKLE SPRAIN. Because you're absolutely exhausted. So switch and save with GYCO. It's almost better than sports. The future is closer than you think. And it all starts in the palm of your hand. You may have heard the news. Five G. is coming in this new IHEART series. This time tomorrow presented by team above business. Join me as well ocean and my co host. Kara price as we will you through the true revolution immobility. That will change the way we interact with the world around us. Join US and here. Just how close we are getting to a more connected future. This time tomorrow is now available on the iheartradio APP or wherever you listen to podcasts. This Day in history class is a production of iheartradio. Hey I'm ethics and you're listening to this day in history class. A podcast where we bring you a slice of history every day. Today is February twenty-second Twenty twenty. The day was February twenty-second eighteen seventy six native American activists in writer visit Collishaw. Also known as Gertrude. Simmons Baden was born on the yanked in reservation in South Dakota. Is it college? Shah's mother named reaches for the wind was a yanked in sue. Her father was a white man named Felker but Felker abandoned the family early on in collishaw mother eventually married another man named John. Hastings Simmons shot gave her her name which means read a bird. In the LAKOTA language. Collishaw spent her early childhood on the reservation there. She listened to traditional stories with characters that she would later include in her first book but when she was around eight years old she left the reservation to go to a quaker missionary school. Indiana is it collishaw. Mother did not support her attending this school because she did not trust the missionaries to educate native American children. That collishaw returned to South Dakota. After three years of study but four years later she left the reservation again to go back to school. One of the school she went to in the following years was early college in Indiana. While there she got second place in a statewide oratory contest which resulted in her first publication. She also studied music and play the violin. This led her to study at the New England Conservatory of Music in Boston. And teach at the Carlisle Indian school in Pennsylvania. She did not really care for the time spent at Carlisle and she disagreed with the schools founder. Richard Henry Pratt who supported teaching native American students agrarian and domestic skills rather than academic subjects around this time. The college began publishing her work in magazines like Harper's Atlantic monthly in one thousand nine one the publisher. Gin and company released her first full length. Book Old Indian legends that year when she visited her mother she met another yanked through named Raymond. Bonnin they got married had a child and move to a reservation in Utah. Collishaw worked as a clerk and teacher her musical and writing careers took a backseat to the rest of her work though she did collaborate with composer. William Hansen on an opera called Sundance. That premiered in Utah in nineteen thirteen. At this point is it. Collishaw was turning more toward activism. She became involved with the Society of American Indians or S. A reform organization formed at Ohio State University. In one thousand nine eleven. The group was run by native Americans and it aimed to preserve their way of life while advocating full American citizenship. It focused on government reforms as well as activities like increasing native American employment in the American Indian Service which was the agency that managed native American affairs. Collishaw wrote a poem that was published in the Society's quarterly magazine and in Nineteen Sixteen. She was elected secretary of the organization a position she held until nineteen nineteen shot and her family moved to Washington DC THERE. She became involved with many other organizations concerned with native American rights and reforms. She served editor of Essay is publication American Indian magazine Writing Essays about issues such as land retention and self-determination see lobbied lawmakers and toward across the US in support of native American citizenship. She spoke out on the conditions of poverty on reservations. Detailing how food was scarce and opportunities for education and employment. Were few but because you had one foot in white society and the other in native American communities she did Garner the distrust of some native Americans after the SAI disbanded and the Indian citizenship. Act passed collishaw and her husband founded the National Council of American Indians. It's goal was to make a quote constructive effort to better the red race and make its members better citizens of the United States. It promoted pay an Indian ISM. As opposed to tribalism though the organization floundered visit Collishaw continued to lecture on native American Reforms and writes she died in nineteen thirty eight. Her writing is noted for describing the tension between her native American roots and her white education her advocacy has been criticized by some people who wrote the impact of assimilation on cultural identity. But she is considered an influential activist in native American history as she advocated for native American Civil Rights Women's rights education and the preservation of native American culture. I'm Eve stuff coat and hopefully you know a little more about history today than you did yesterday. If you haven't gotten your fill of history yet you can find us on twitter facebook and Instagram at T. D. H. C. podcast. And if you would like to write me a letter you can scan it turn it into a PDF and send it to us via email at this day at iheartmedia dot com. I hope he likes this. Show we'll be back tomorrow with another episode for more podcasts. From iheartradio vis the iheartradio APP apple podcasts. Or wherever you listen to your favorite shows the future is closer than you think and it all starts in the palm of your hand. You may have heard the news. Five G. is coming in this new IHEART series this time tomorrow presented by t mobile business. Join me as well ocean and my cursed characterize as we walk you through the true revolution immobility. That will change the way we interact with the world around us. Join US here. Just how close we are getting to a more connected future. This time tomorrow is now available on the iheartradio APP. Or wherever you listen to podcasts. Hey guys it's bobby bones. I host the bobby bones show and I'm pretty much always sleepy because I wake up at three o'clock in the morning a couple of hours later I get all my friends together. We get into a room and we do a radio show. We share our allies. We tell our stories. We try to find as much good in the world. If you possibly can and we looked through the news of the day that you'll care about also your favorite country. Artists are always stopping by to hang out and share their lives and music too so wake up with a bunch of my friends. I Ninety eight point seven. W M Z Q in Washington DC or wherever the rotates you on the iheartradio APP.

Collishaw Collishaw US Geico Society of American Indians South Dakota American Indian Service immobility Washington American Indian magazine Utah Carlisle Indian school American Civil Rights Women basketball Indiana Twenty twenty bobby bones National Council of American I New England Conservatory of Mu
Carlisle Indian School opened - November 1, 1879

This Day in History Class

06:17 min | 1 year ago

Carlisle Indian School opened - November 1, 1879

"My name is Michael Schulman and I'm the host of new podcast called from scratch on iheartradio look intake in one expert who isn't a chef what I was missing stay in history class is a production of iheartradio hello again gene Vania eighteen nineteen US Congress passed the civilization American culture beginning in the late eighteenth century the US had the native Americans from conducting their traditional religious ceremonies and a lot of them land This way white Americans believe indigenous folks would be acculturated to the US eh there were white Americans who opposed the policies of assimilation education was one of the main ways the US attempted to assimilate native Americans. Colonel Richard Henry Pratt established the first off reservation boarding school funded remember I eighteen seventy nine Pratt's philosophy was that quote all and from using their indigenous ones they were given new clove in haircuts and worked on farms or in stores the school exposed tildren to infection a model for other government funded schools for force assimilation the government required the government still believes it was saving children from poverty and a wayward life since units were given little academic instruction they were mainly given vocational training that prepared superintendent in Nineteen Zero four after butting heads with the Bureau of Indian affairs over his then the Miriam Report published in Nineteen Twenty eight criticized conditions but attendance at these schools increased despite the protests of native American attendance at Native American boarding schools peaked in the nineteen seventies with an estimated sixty. I know a little more about history today than you did yesterday you can keep up with US iheart media Dot Com thanks for listening I hope

US Colonel Richard Henry Pratt US Congress Michael Schulman Bureau of Indian affairs gene Vania Miriam Report superintendent
My Journey So Far | Mansha Kaur

Heart On My Sleeve

09:03 min | 1 year ago

My Journey So Far | Mansha Kaur

"<music> hub-hub originals hives welcome back hodgin in my steve visit my chalkboard on. You're listening to me on how this shot episode stead. You guys addicted. They'd better by story. I spend the bus fourteen years my night in china nigeria on moscow long story short my dad used to walk with lodge <unk> until he quit his job in two thousand and eight to follow his lifelong passion in the stock off market and that's when we moved back to india going up in these obscure amazing cities made for a wonderful uninventive food giant hood guide the wild thornberrys interesting but by the end of it i switched dense in schools and i had no idea where home what's the not flu was the hottest in me. This led to me developing. I'm unhealthy relationship with food and for about a year and a half. I was just really lost in life then on a sunny morning coming in two thousand ten. My dad knocked out in front of me. We rushed to the hospital and after a week of intensive death we found out out that he had a heart condition when hard times hit you're faced with do options i would retreat into a corner unprotected as nothing is happening. All you blame yourself up and take charge of your life. I did not go. I'm fifty. I became responsible young adult at home. We change our lifestyle in dire need. I'm wardens of health and living mindfully has ever since been said into my head. I graduated from school and went to university not where i did my become on us by stint in delhi so far had been quite the letdown a series of unfortunate events as inactivated one year into college. I knew something had to change move into. The state seemed logical at the time so i gave my g mocked and was planning on a blind too few defraud n._b._a. M._i._m. programs when the most amazing thing happened an live took a very different done. I just don twenty and a series of very happy. Coincidences led to meet talking to this amazing guy online the foss dime he ever spoke. We ended up to a king <unk> seventeen hours. Do we lead. We went on this buffet. I eat a week after that. He asked me out despite on jake. I just have to be with this guy fun. Fact the guy question is the founder of hot hoffa dot com mentioned this thing dion still own if doors plans and leaving india automatically faded the stabler of my second job. He inspired me to pick up. The fitness. Joke that i used to ron carey's core. I make it into something more substantial doing in gunship or link <unk>. I i started working <unk> fitness timeout. Now is my boss brush with entrepreneurship in the meanwhile not wanted to let <unk> who raised my dad pushed me up by the indian school of business got my todd for d get set in with fitness turmoil and i got back septimus meadow from is so i decided to entertain the thought of doing an m._b._a. I'm just then is presented with this brilliant opportunity a drier diversity program that's fine across three countries and was centered around want entrepreneurship and innovation. I came back knowing that me school wasn't for me but had been blind for fitness. Dharma instead of sitting replacements i started walking on my next baby is at an online on gobble. I interviewed debuted. Mid level found us an industry experts to bring ground level. No need to fuss them. Phone does young stops knowledge on how to make tossed. Heil raggio fos marketing gambling radioplus round et cetera these nine innings would have had me back and garbage when i was struggling with the platform was well received and eventually we had five people walking on it but a urine. I couldn't see myself doing this for the rest of my life. Also one thing led to another and i ended up widening for some greedy de-fund camping's the wedding and wanting exposed me to write different sides of the clothing industry something that and i decided to pick up after the wedding madness was all the next six months old we put on the wedding planner hat followed by two month stint of doing up our house you see the perfectionist in me wouldn't have it any other way. Eight months a staggering bombing. I'm reading every single fashion book i could leave my hands on led to the bottle at amaya a clothing brand that that focuses on gowns and dresses a gap in the wedding sash occasional wehrmacht it that i had existed when i was shopping for my wedding through tool. It's been gratifying. You're in a half working closely with some enough to have them. No extra extra-special in on that big date and finally i want to talk about the road to me starting this quite gust having been the agony on a five friends that yard you dr by family. I'm the cellphone claimed bus <unk> junkie. It only seems fitting to try and amplify. I might be my hope is not does johnny would you. It's one that has gone dot much closer to the very best us washington boston do tune in next week after would weakness not to hear from you guys and ecomax chris questions of feedback that you may have you can message me on instagram by hand with as much thought for m._e. N. s. h. e. dark gay are by you in the next episode. How far would it's no close the nikkei. Yep i got a b of nevada's launch not to be the hub hobo studio website beer just stuck at it ekman again that end end up knuckled podcast launch getting yet he no he studio. The up woody is i._v. Of nepad cut launch mickey thin dinos zahn steph smith booth now shoot chemical yet they yet just hawthorne hub hoffa simply content.

india flu indian school of business ron carey china septimus meadow nevada jake johnny nepad founder g ekman N. s. h. moscow dion boston nigeria washington todd
Ep 3: Finding That Elusive Passion

Heart On My Sleeve

19:05 min | 1 year ago

Ep 3: Finding That Elusive Passion

"<music> hub-hub originals harder for indus music one hoppy nasty bacon. I'll go shopping affect. Do kind of what what is something to look forward. Especially the peak as we awesome newspaper who have known and worked was a career fashion since <unk> age. I wanted those people. I'm guessing neither you otherwise you wouldn't be listening to an episode about finding it and then there are people who believe that work is what they do it donald living and sustain their families find fashion bumpers in other things <unk> knives france again. I'm not on one of these idle in fact as far back as i can remember. I've always been in the authentic one thing that i wanted to do for the rest of my life. Nice something that made me few content that made me one in the woods and warren buffett don's to work. I believe you're can i clean your saudi unsatisfied. During the walk all statutory level of these on this one did mall you believe that you have all of potential inside a few busting at the scene dying to get out but it just doesn't translate to what you're currently doing doing growing up. You believe that someday you would be that one in a million dotterel would my own story. I want you to know going into <music>. This at your passion is about avoiding what uncared deeply about today you may not a yaw from now and got doc completely otake just the gross. You jumped off a cliff. I read from your steve on cushy job or course for this one team that what you believe you will meant to announce you differently. It doesn't mean that you need to run back to that job. Believe that you feed there origins of things to do out that the john's said you would get it right. The first time is pretty rare. I'd say it's married. I'm in going forward with the bus bus you ever had in crash on. Would you give up on the very concept of love and get married to the next bus in. You're set up with just flashed. Relationship didn't walk out and you're hot token probably not then why are we so quick doc give up on finding this passion and getting back to that whole joel or was crashing onto something that falling out of love with and hans one bubbly succeed up anyway the exception being that you really need that money in the short run but even that do keep an eye out for that elusive zip fashion. I promise you you would find. I remember telling my dad when i was five or six years old. I wanted to become more than when i grew up. My dad asked me anymore than what he did at athlete i obviously did not but i was dead short that that's what i wanted to be. Fossil went to the sixth grade. I decided that i was going to become an engineer. This was to feed forward by me want to be the stock market like that and that these lasted about do i got. I got this cooking buck at whip up something you at least two to three times a week and just on the basis that i tried convincing my parents defend me off to gunnery <unk> alyssa boardroom yet practical barons to me that if our student at mit in with this idea after coinage they would surely send me off to race but in the meantime to pursue something a new mom grounded as expected i go over this fees within the and this was followed would buy me one can do and then university which i did in my second year i was on the spot where i really wanted to become a consultant and i also wanted to john away from my problems aka not finding my footing in this city so i started mapping out may exit giving giving the defense seemed logical. This was around the time that i met by now has been what he was in piedmont intersecting hub hobo and he said to me aback point well. That's great but why somebody and when i didn't have good on so i realized that i've fallen preda hardman daddy as we all do some time today. I was actually thinking what i'd offer. My graduation be spending eighty percent of my time doing on what the what sector was at the moment. It'd be one thing if i truly believe that enjoyed doing that kind of work or i had prior experience that supported that beliefs but it would have to be social lawyer something just because simple question of why genes might reject tree forever before i continue if you haven't been ever office question question or thought about two cents a one to two boys this and do that now it god this way la whether you are five years into your cudgel twenty years take a moment to ask yourself why why industry why this rule and on this league not some sleeping statement and then oscar of wet your attention google ooh when you order an aunt obligated to do anything else at that point just food for thought. I leave you with that back act when i was asked this question at quite simply down got them but i don't know the answer to this. I don't know what it meant to do. For the rest of my life started to eat duckie. He told me a backbone when you signed on so it could be next week next month next year aw or even daniels from now but when you do it's going to hit you like a wall of bricks and nothing and nobody is going to be able to you. Keep you a boxer meant and so i said seeing on this journey to find that take it started out with knee believing it would be fitness than gic reflect reflect the nostrils episodes john dan why i started to visit app quoted fitness timeout <unk> applied to indian school of business. My dad was pretty keen since that already given the g. mat as my palladio team. I wasn't making much progress with the app and this was around the time i got accepted at i._s._p. So i thought to myself why not give business. I went for this drive was deprogrammed from is be the site at the end of which i realized that business wasn't my cup of tea but i did come back with vivid sickness timeout. It was outgoing institure institure on a hug. An idea was to connect people who will go into the same problems in life online support cool. If you were and a few monthly monthly dog this leg to me stocking gazette it stemmed out myself station of not knowing how to build a complete from drummed out so i interviewed reviewed founders industry expert etc to bring ban on as mistakes in ninety two people who were just starting out by the stop phone recruit team fall people and ran through y'all before i realized that this wasn't i don i then had a tryst with wildly where i was of major camping for lack me then landed up with me on a couple of billboards and the cover of feminine but that was definitely an artist. I was getting marriage. John stein so having seen things from the other side that is walking sold lewis with design arts and from the customer's point of view as well given that i was shopping from my waiting. I found a gap in the walk it. When it gamed gowns injustice for wedding functions they laughed at my wedding. I studied for a few months and planned got my first line and that's was born at their lyle. Which is russian for this. Mike greenwood after manufacturing this last line i ran a few online camping camping and much to my surprise response has been quite good at since award quite a few off track pieces and worked with a number brides and bespoke gone comments. It's been gratifying one and a half yards creating jimmy outfits for the special days in the lives of these women at finally believe. I believe that i'd fallen. Would i had been looking for these ers or did i started out as a shoe of sport for my husband that is this what gust i has once again. Chief my trajectory for novel. It happened a second. I started it and you would have there was something different about this. I enjoyed the would the process so much that it will most gag me no-ties that process so i tried to ignore it for the wide hence the duty in this episode i made method busy with <unk> hoarding nine but deep down. I knew i found the one nice to meet my very unconventional meet near the toy stories <unk> and scaring still a scary that i stuck the butts and i was with this person was still amusing. I'm beat box dick on if the right boxes adjusting make me feel the same way not by ten thousand miles excuse attitude. It's taken me three months to beat them to be honest with myself about it. He has the team. Do i believe that each of these ideas or career options on credo bible of course not in fact they are all mines in their own right but am i the busted was meant to be solving them or working with them. Not journey. I had my hip nyc. Mike ward of bricks moment. It's possibly the most recipient obscure one of them on a good <unk>. Boston's looked isn't financially viable. I don't know l. yet. It bubby feels every report. God out there as far as a goal but i seem to be the happiest doing it and so i sat back to myself why this and the on the biz toward the very many career box and business ideas have had one common threads been me trying to become my best stuff in the pain that i'm doing and all the other things a knife at that point whether this the gaza any other digital visual medium in the joe i get to shed this johnnie of self-improvement with the wood and hippie mecca wall bricks digressed ever since i can remember i've always been in the <unk> betterment the placebo of going under the m._v._p. So that blend lint would is said and done at the end demand knife afgahn asked lewis to the very best was in myself the books that i've read on about the stock market rocket or the fashion industry the boston growth books at they're very cool. I tell you what if this to beyond to stand and one pink could mean the would boston and nothing to another for sound beeper that something is clearly talked out in their minds and for all the abilities keep looking when you chip away everything that you are not you find yourself. It's a cost not quick hard to figure out what to do in life but if you don't have a non sow now then figuring out everything that you don't want to get to that as an act the generations at times before it's not uncommon for people to quit the job aw and do something of their own backed anesthesia's from <unk> busted experience just doing your own ping dozen meek project fi you do many any a frost went out to not one which is obviously a step in the right direction. We need to get stuck in an idea that we don't do that in fact if somebody off us ask why we were doing that we come up with a half baked story but we don't really know why so door own business just for the sake of doing it define that russian you need to bus. I'm full mostly. Be honest with your best an answer this next question. What do you really want from knife. It is a stability is it money is a bowel. Is it but this or is it following. A hobie feels. This questions really important. You may figure it out to fashion but only are undeniably motivations that is stability <unk> money et cetera will help you onto how oh you want to approach this fashion in order to build a satisfying <unk> out different ethic don's out for me on so is bumper and this whole wind. I'm drowning off though many hobbies and hans wide. I enjoyed them initially. Be analyst interest eventually to look around you. You're on the ninth day. What do you need what i have been. Just that tunisia google start to your instagram starches. What do you judy get about when no one's looking what brings you joy on a daily basis you see. I may not have on says to a lot of things but i do know this for official. You're paying your pointing. Fashion is the one that you enjoy on day to day basis. The one was broadcast makes you want to tacked on to work. Whether somebody understands that or not you may not enough point of it. Don't get me wrong but it will bring you much more joy than frustration restauration unsold do what you got to at least sixty seventy percent of the dimes you may wanna ask yourself these questions jeff adjusted recap why why go why industry wide destroyed and because my parents were in it said so might bill isaac did as it has annoyed school. It's all i know what to do. It's not known so far these on good enough on sars digby ball. The next question is when your mind wonder when is just you know society to brush all it todd by news. Would your surroundings rounding <unk> history safety you if what what's that type in your mind that you've gone cindy suppress and not see if you can do do anything what is it that you really want from knife not office amended on businesses will be freelancers or creative professional's. It's going to address the giant defendant. You might be thinking that it's easy for you to see this. I thought responsibilities that <unk> prioritize <unk> james whether that's taking care of my kids being somebody's hospitals funding my sister's wedding and so on and reform and leave you with this example in what you need up is music. I'm not suggesting that you quit your job and become a single you gone on of course but how about a joy in the music industry way club your current knack for marketing for example but walking an industry that truly get about that way you get to keep your security and stability but suddenly the work that you do you get about it ahead of a lot more than if you will for example working this marketing job in the fall my industry not always that's one weakness not one to sacrifice every ping <unk> but whatever weight is because <unk> bidding accompany. You love a working a dream job. You have to have to enjoy the d. two d. for the most part that could factor off your <unk> saturday photo account industry industry. Those awards created we in a blink of an eye an on you be left with is the not the milestone but the process asked to get to them in addition dora transcend the fox that leads you back hit by a wall of bricks moment you are experienced up to that belly any moment whether you off this team could d forty five or sixty heads you bring a unique perspective to whatever you're calling is and igloos lose that you bought from those who have debasing twenty. I'm rudy leave. You guys were the next up from a pool that a professor of mine had once resigned democracy house. It's called be the best by douglas monarch if you cannot be fine on tall for him be a scrub in the body but be the best described by the side of the him be bush if you get on <unk> if if you cannot be a highly than just be true if you cannot be the sun be a straw for isn't by the signs that we know you feel just be the best of whatever were you up and that's it guys times accusing in. I've promised to have lured much could be the next episode is scolded. The inventory of us allowed if you've thought after four or five i'm not destroying feedback compression benching off or so to speak about is you can find in your door and you it would. It's the nikkei yep. I should via vodkas launch cannata full hop hobo studio website beer just stuck at unimak minute game that ended up knuckled cup outcasts launch getting yet he no he studio studio up the he he of nepad cut launch county gietzen dinos on steps though sock may of nevada's shooter chemical yet if they yet just hop on how papa simply content.

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Deadly Discussions Episode 19

Deadly Discussions

31:02 min | 1 year ago

Deadly Discussions Episode 19

"Welcome to deadly discussions. I'm your host is a chasm that has a podcast on social entrepreneurship and before we started like to acknowledge the traditional landowners whose land record today the were under people of the kulin nation now today. I'm joined by dr cacique shrida hype. I pronounce that correctly might am. I'm who is a all aim expanded himself but he's a man of many abilities and it also has designed <hes> blog that he touches on sustainability and things as he does <hes> but i'm going to ruin introduction <hes> dr shake you could do it yourself so welcome to the show thank you. Thanks so much for having me <hes> <hes> it's it's an absolute honor. You know i'm a big follower of your podcast and also your work itself and <hes> you know just just imitation to be able to to speak on on podcast. It's it's wonderful so <hes> yeah no. I'm i'm really excited to have a conversation with you. Know our is. Thanks might really appreciate the kind words and i'm i'm also following some of the work you've done now you you go and a lotta panels and give keynote speaking around sustainability in the corporate level and i'd love to touch on today about not that it's not just lip service is not just a hot word everyone saying like sustainability sustainability social enterprises or indigenous this business that it's actually a genuine reason while we're out there trying to bring these social impacts and bring something back for the the shareholders that it can can be a win win for everyone. So why don't we start on your upbringing your story your education so whereabouts in this wildwood were you born. <hes> from india isaac sanae which is south india and <hes> pretty much at the age of two migrated to lagos nigeria nigeria which is west africa. My dad got a job there <hes> in an electronics firm and <hes> so yeah my upbringing was basically lego <hes> and i would consider myself today a nigerian by heart absolutely you know india blood failing by passport but tonight area whilst that would make a very interesting <hes> dinner at your place. What is you've got some indian in nigerian influence there. Yes it's different. It's just a completely different environment ten euro at two or three at the eight at that age. It's not easy or you country absorb. You know you're getting yourself into in your <hes> but i have to say <hes> i think everywhere that i've lived in thirty five years that i've been on this planet isaac pretty much as amalgamated into do what i am today and i think that's that's really important you know and they talk about being a global citizen to experience different cultures. It's not it's not <hes>. I think that without being to to <hes> loose with my word i think you probably not complete <hes> because experiencing in different cultures kind of at a p steer puzzle of who you are you actually believe nigeria had a certain personality india had a certain personality in america for eight years ear state that had a different personality alia <hes> so yeah so i am absolutely grateful for the the the background that i have it. Some might say a bit crazy you know with yeah but <hes> <hes> i think at the end of the day it made it made me who i am yo. Can i completely understand knowing growing out those you know one weekend would be at my grandma's my father he's anglo australian and would be eating live a gravy and onions with a bit of mashed potato and we'd be putting out eating properly cutlery and the right sides and the next week will be eating m. c. total out of tin foil and so without hands so you go to school with the majority australian <hes> classroom so it was like growing up going. What is my identity. What what is a strategy in what is indigenous and we saw a i indian kid joined the class and he had a turban. He was seek <hes> everyone's like what's on his head. Did you like old surprise like never seen this in the law and it's like right ten and you haven't seen someone <hes> except for on the cricket you on the t._v. And it was just incredible that there's the cultural divide and i love what you're saying because yeah until you've gone out to the world and see how people have different personalities and different way to do things things it helps me understand you know my wife's father's from south india mothers anglo-australian. I'm from long and so i was able to quickly <hes> on a stand one would be sitting there eating with her indian side and then we'll be ivy <hes> with the geelong side the differences because i grew up with that but if i grew up with the one culture i'd be very confused news and sometimes you take offense at different cues or different <hes> takes people say or saying. She like all what does that mean. You know you don't know where they're coming from but having that exposure asia i think so important not just for personal growth then for business as well. I know when i dealing with business owners with clients and i know they've got 'im. I'm cultural backgrounds unable to relate really quickly and then understand where they coming from if they didn't get back to me straightaway and they come from a culture that's more light back while than that is is understandable if they really pushing to get something done they might from a culture. That's very fast pace and i always on the move so i found that was actually really important to have of going into business and then networking relationships because you saw it on the stand where you know what people coming from yeah. That's a good point is again. You know there are many discussions today around you know adaptability resilient <hes> you know so many of those soft skills that aren't necessarily taught in universities <hes> but it's such a critical component of doing business today and if you talk about sustainability which is a topic that not everyone easily understands. I mean to you and i it seems seems pretty mainstream. You know it's a it's a topic that constantly needs reinforcement and education and when you try to have a conversation about sustainability with the people who are not yet fully on board the ability to communicate the ability to adapt the ability to be resilient with what you might get back. <hes> determines the titles by ryan that you're going to get to that agenda and embedding it within business. <hes> and i truly believe my upbringing played a key role in that. You know you're talking about your your experiences at the dinner table. <hes> i'll share something slightly less field <hes> in nigeria which is not one of the most safest countries in the world uh-huh being an only child i made for a very easy ransom you know for for kidnappers and whatnot and i was actually held at gunpoint well three times from between the ages of six and eight <hes> <hes> because these these people basically wanted to rob my parents and they for me as an easy target. I guess the reason i'm mm sharing that is you know every i guess everything go through in life. Every incident you go through a good bad overwhelming underwhelming whatever it might be if you can find something being in debt that you can basically harness and leverage <hes> for me with those incidents basically turned me into something that's quite i wouldn't say cold <music> but <hes> you know all the slightly stone like when the transport situation <hes> switching off you to sort of just turning turning off when the situations come up the thing yeah and everyone goes through you know difficult situations but that was mine and i chose to harness that in a certain way way so so there you go you know that's gonna ask about growing up jana. The safest country was a large indian community. There tale quite a significant indian community <hes> and <hes> i went to an indian school. You're taught hindi. <hes> that was the obviously we are national language your <hes> but i you know through my background and my blog is like i was also a tennis player so my was not really so much of a social person and i was actually quite introverted very shy and all at my routine was basically you know wake up to come back gopher tennis lesson comeback study and then like you know that was yeah. I don't wanna say my parents brought me. Opening military-style hopefully somewhere in between the killing. It was a three meal a day <hes> <hes> so yes so. I actually didn't really have a lot of attractions. I didn't have dreams <hes> <hes> but tennis was my life <hes> so i knew my tennis racket was my best friend and i actually wasn't exposed too much to the nigerian way of living living on the indian way of living exposed to the you know the street or yeah yeah we'll come back to being introverted and some of the stuff you're doing now because sitting in front of rooms of a couple of hundred people having having gone so we'll come back to that but so growing up so university in nigeria nigeria or were you sent abroad. No i think so <hes> funny funny story <hes> <hes> do i. How do i keep this thing when when i was <hes> just just take three minutes of your time loop on the background was actually on heart quits two weeks ago. Believe it or not on a._b._c. show. Is tom gleeson really the world and insight about it but basically what happened. I think is <hes>. My dad was a tennis player. So we sunday. I would accompany him. Friends pick up tennis balls or the ball boy. One of his friends pulled ahead of me and my dad said you're going to step in so you picked up a racket at six basically basically twelve. I became number one in the country team. <hes> i was found by john you can <hes> and he said do you want to come to texas united states and you'll see career and professional tennis <hes> so i actually left my parents at a very young age. We childhood was a very <hes>. I wouldn't say traumatic but it was a very difficult experience to be in such a comfortable place comfortable zone <hes> and actually say we're going to have an ocean between us and you not see you you know as often as i would like to two thirteen to now thirty five. I've been away from my parents. I kind of had to grow up on myself. <hes> and i'm not sure if you heard i spoken another podcast very traumatic experience in ten school. Basically you know it's physically believe for the first year that i hear which led to the downfall of my tennis game so basically basically six boys kind of not appreciating my skin color or my hair or whatever it might be <hes> so that actually led to the downfall of my tenants but it was at this age where i had an auction to either basically kill myself because it was just horrendous whole harness that unconsciously and learn how to deal with with <hes> with such an such an experience so it or the next three or four years. I was alone obviously in texas. I was trying to think what am i going to do with my life career. I'm actually gonna make it in tennis or not and after playing on on the tour you'll actually hit ranking of top one thousand. I decided to do my university and if i could balance education and athletics i played college tennis for carolina university in america and as you know college sports in the u._s. is considered bigger than than my my played college soccer. Yes i understand yeah <hes> so that was my way to continue playing tennis but i also thought i need to study so i tried. How did you pursue a degree in business administration for no reason except my dad was a dismissed but it was here is like that i got exposed to various clauses <hes> i was forced to take classes by my supervisor on weaknesses that are has he made me take public speaking. He made me take a religion. He made bible arts or for geography orphee the things that had nothing to do with business supervisor said quote shake you have a certain background at the moment if we can shift it <hes> and and get you out of your comfort zone so i was sweating bullets. When i did my public speaking gulf filmed <hes> but i would have to close the loop on that and say isaac that university either i went to and your classes that i took he didn't really hone in on sustainability or management okay so he's learnt on. The job gave different sort of skill okay. <hes> that i think is very important <hes> as part of an education yeah. That's what i studied basically while you covered a lot. That's fantastic ask story and sat as well you know my mother was abusing and <hes> community she grew up with traditional indigenous community <hes> rations and growing alcoholism violence yet she was the same option was to kill herself took a self down to the river and she had a spiritual encounter which lead to <hes> being labral process that and handle those incidents and then making a stronger in the future so you take some classes and tennis. There's the things you learn from that. I love this podcast because i get to hear people's stories that that their way's the other form that they can share it in this podcast provides which absolutely love so. Let's go into what you're doing now and before we start so a lot of the work you do around sustainability which we've sort of lent now that you've pretty much like that on the job as you've gone along is that because you've identified identified a weakness in some of the organization you're working with and going on. Also you know solve this and bringing sort of a circular economy will bring you know more buying from the tame team. How how did that come about yeah. It's a great question is i can just sorry i just want to add one thing before any data the beauty of this podcast learning about you know different stories and so on in your grandmother story isaac and and yours and your you know your other <hes> kind of speakers and everything i <hes> you're absolutely right you know there are some incidents that that some might consider <hes> you know overwhelming or too much when you hear about the inspirational way of like your grandmother's connection spiritual connection or anything else these are the sort of things that that just gives you goosebumps <hes> and when as your grandma had that that goes i mean i know there's a lot of suffering in this world is larger things. There's lots of bad <hes> what i think you know. People ask me today. You know who up to your life. <hes> sorry this is probably something something you might want to get at the end but i have to say <hes> the people that i look up to in life. Isaac are not the people who put a smile on my face. There aren't the people who tell me what i wanna hear here a different way of thinking but they are the people that make me feel at ease or comfortable the people i look up to the people who challenge me who who borderline almost gave me a super hard time <hes> who actually actually have no confidence <hes> and but you know in their rant or in their advice or in their your perspective or in their view there's some nugget which you can basically add to your arsenal because <hes> and you know with each difficult situation you just become much which more stronger and probably had some experiences in my life professionally and personally which are things that people should not experience in their lifetime <hes> but you know what what your grandma experience for me i today i look forward to those experiences because i learned something which i can keep <hes> in future conversations that built that level level of resilience it it equips you to face a lot of skepticism <hes> and you know potential disbelief in what you're all about definitely ability which is an area area that as i said earlier not everyone gets into this field by accident. <hes> and i talked to a lot of people today. A lot of kids students want to get into sustainability field and cacique. Why did you get into this field. How did you get into it. And how can we get into it. You know we're not sure we're studying sustainability at uni <hes> but where did you start <hes> i got into the field by pure luck <hes> when i was doing my m._b._a. I can sydney. I was planning to have a career in sales and marketing <hes> <hes> this internship opportunity came up with the fortune five hundred company to build a carbon footprint measurement tool for them. They wanted to track the carbon emissions across their apec operations john john and that was it actually turned down because i can't. I'm not really sure what the s. word means which i frankly what's complicating <hes> i've kind of been on both sides of the coin <hes> but basically what they said is no police come in who sent to the supervisors of company c what they say and you we believe in what they say then you take up virginia and if you don't there's no no issues i went in. I listened to them. They're ten minute pitch about sustainability vision for what they wanted. Teh-chi for this company and i was kind of sold so got in did develop some energy efficiency opportunity saved them a few dollars <hes> then i did a a p._h._d. And it was when i was doing my doctorate in this sustainability sphere that i quickly realized researching so many different companies and organizations i felt there was a gap as you rightly pointed out and there was a really an opportunity. This is going back a few years now so there was a a big gap and i thought companies are doing one thing really really well which is maximizing their financial bottom line but there seem to be seeing sustainability as a band-aid or as an add on rather than an integrated way. You're thinking you're <hes> <hes> my triple bottom line way of thinking so i thought okay let me let me finish my doctorate and you're actually see if i can have an the impact in this in this space in the space in australia. You're both with my passionate had owned but also my pragmatic hat on <hes> and so i started my career in management consulting every day a different project in a different today might be human rights might be ethical supply they might be reporting and then assurance percents <hes> for different industries will i. I guess the reason i appreciate my consulting careers. Learn a lot very quickly. You might get it stretched. You might get confused. On which area are you most willing to work in. Which industry do you wanna work on inability this so many topics <hes> <hes> so i quickly realized after going through all these different projects that what i wanna do is i want to work on implementing a triple bottom line of thinking in businesses so as you said earlier it is not tokenistic. It shouldn't be talking <hes> it actually has to come with a purpose but also keeping a clear vision on the financial bottom line what i love to do and so i said all right enough of consulting. I wanna actually be in house and build sustainability programs rams from scratch. I wanna go into companies that don't necessarily understand what the s. word means because that was my experience initially <hes> <hes> you know a company where are there might be some nonbelievers the company where there might be challenges and and use my experiences you know the the bullying experience which billions you know the the the the internship experience which taught me to kind of articulate what the word means some so basically a sweet spot for my skills was to go go to companies and build things from scratch. I thought <hes> so what i do today. Is i work for <hes> one of the largest healthcare companies in australia the next yup <hes> and you know we've done some great things in the past around stain ability but really my role was to say okay we've done these things kind of sporadically and agile yup and we actually build a strong program that has really powerful environmental and social impact and i guess an outcome that i can and share with you today which will actually be public in sustainability <hes>. That's going to be published in two weeks two of the projects that that we have implemented through the sustainability program. We're we're actually going to have operational savings that are in the million per year world <hes> you know so that's wonderful for the financial bottom line but then also the amount of environmental environmental impact in removing carbon emissions from the atmosphere. That's an amazing environmental impact but then there's also social impact from the projects we do earn health and wellbeing and you know for our clients and our so. I think that's that's really what i always wanted to do. <hes> and i think that's what i do today and that gives me the best for professional and personal satisfaction when i wake up every morning isaac joe. My wife is always annoyed. She said why do you wake up yeah. That's right. You had a coffee. You're ready. I love that as well we we looked the dulles bend of boone joel <hes> our company and <hes> it was nineteen cents on the dollar was going back to social enterprises vises indigenous businesses and nonprofits no track that down to how much employment created and coming away from that philosophy manager year i it was something that guy's really proud of. We've got it on board and a lot of the exempts that come into the office and from state government a really blown away by but it's very simple whole it's very simple to track. It's very simple to go. You know we distanced spending throwing money at a problem we actually needed these businesses offices to achieve our projects and satisfy satisfaction for our clients and we went in a genuine connection and there's an exchange that and <hes> it reminds me of someone told me that in places like new york. Have you spent a dollar at the jewish community. It's forty days is that the dole is going through the committee before leaves and you look at some of the african american communities. It's one day so couldn't imagine the indigenous community or even the the great australian alien economy you know how how intentional about being sustainable sustainable on economic basis as trying to get the best deal and trying to get a short short term result my thinking you know ten fifteen years. What is the business. Look like what is what is operations look like. What does technology change. I'm i'm and i think that's so important and what you do is very important. I think it's going to be a skill set. That's going to be huge demand in the next ten twenty thirty years especially when we got electric because coming along we've got hydrogen storage. People are going okay. It's out there. That's great but how do i actually bring this into how existing system and i like how you said you came into the blacks and other people as well made a lot of electrical engineers working for big companies and they're like oh. I wish i could do what you do is accurate around you. You have if you have access to multiple solutions agnostic and bring that in full the client and the happy with that and how did you get into it. Whetted just studying. I said actually we had a separate trade and offered a job in a startup which was off grid renewable tentative about actually said no twice and the owner was like come on like he's seriously like this is going to be. This is in his business but he says the industry is going to take off in australia and this this was back in queensland so i read a lot gently said yes i thought in my head while i'm i'm still young so effort tones if attends terrible then i can just go back to my tools go back too much right and it turned out to right so and then except for when i went into residential and commercial but that's another story but now yeah like you said it's it's you've got to offer that expertise but then you've also got off an actual solution for someone like you said going into his sustainability program. He's a document it probably said on you on your yearly report or put it on your website but it's actually what does that document main real time impractical time yeah yeah and i think just to add to that isaac <hes> one of the key things for a sustainability professional or someone who wants to kind of don't get into the field and and gain a lot of traction is it's. The first thing which may sound really really simple is defining it defining what this word means because just in our conversation we trust stain ability from financial and non financial sense but we get it right so if you think about someone who's not sure when you say sustainability they might think oh so find you know maximizing profit rather than maximizing impact and with the as you said earlier in the beginning of the podcast i wear different hats and the reason i wear different hats hats is strategically tried to choose stakeholders but i wanna work with you know we can we can advance his agenda through different ways so obviously have my full time role which is working in large businesses driving sustainability and change but i also lecture at universities have lectured at pretty much all the major melbourne universities and the reason then i love teaching is with the student. This is the next generation the cream of the crop going to kind of inheritance have drive the change for the next generation and you can get inability not just as a silo one that makes no thing into their head. You're actually say you're bachelor or masters of finance. You're this the apply jane but this is how this sustainability word or agenda aligns with what your what you actually want to do. What you're passionate is when you get into the business. You're not just thinking one dimensional. You're thinking multidimensional. That's why i love teaching because then i'm interacting with the next cream of the crop but the third thing i do i coach startups helps with another university accelerator program and in fact i just had a chat with a startup about an hour and a half ago about building value proposition and how sustainability it kind of fits into all of that by engaging large businesses by engaging student <hes> but also engaging startups because i you know you're talking about social enterprise model and and you know the impact that the startups and social enterprises et cetera can have your without in in this in this area without actually calling sustainability is if massive creating that tribe isn't it degrading people not only you actually helping people who are going to go and share with the a person of the pablo at dinner and south is still saw underrated if if people had a great experience they're going to tell everyone about it. It's like going to find a good mechanic back nine oughta. Go down to to ringwood. You've gotta go down to johnny's down here because you had such a great experience. That's it yep exactly. I think that's that's that's the that's the beauty of what we do because i think generally people are willing to listen jobs because it's it's still sort of. I don't want to say new but it's not everyone. Everyone knows about this this sustainability thing how is <hes> essential part of you know thinking personally and professionally so you you will always find a way to get an audience <hes> and when you that that first two minutes with the audience it's where you articulate that definition and why it's relevant to what they do. <hes> and why don't you make it stick there. You know for almost forever so <hes> having your taste to with the the young students is telling them about shaping being in because at times it gets off and you doubt yourself and someone comes in and says look. This is just not working. It's gonna cost us more than it's gonna. Give us but knowing that it's it's going to work and knowing that it has worked for people before i think so important so let's finish up with your future because shake. What's what lies ahead. <hes> you moving back to nigeria or stick around strive for a bit longer co moving back to nigeria that would be under different circumstances. I if i'm thinking of a career change inch just kidding so what lies ahead so i guess i'm probably not those you know one of those people <hes> whether it's good or bad thing i don't think too far far ahead your trip. That's a bad thing. I really live in the present. <hes> but i do have what i call. The daughter approach which i've mentioned in podcast but <hes> the dot is what i i learned a long time ago from a stakeholder when i was doing my p._h._d. Who said you know <hes> at that time. I wanted to change the world and he said you know come in. I'll give you a bit of a reality correct address circle on a white piece of paper and said this white sir you know this the the white space inside that circle depth and breadth of the knowledge that existences the universe took a pencil put a dot in there and said that's the impact you're going to have only with your current studies but also with your professional personal life so be happy with that. Don't figure figure out what the dodgers and just get to it so i believe my daughter is what i do at the moment. <hes> you know my daughter is <hes> first and foremost to to you know my my keep my wife happy good first step approach family i yes i might stakeholder older. Most important is that my family and keeping them happy and making sure everything is all good there from the next dot professionally is to is to facilitate change change. It's not to go into. I mean i would love to but it's not to go into organizations that get it but i want to go into organizations that don't get to build momentum because it's the ones that don't get it that we're trying to facilitate a lot more change so i like to go in and have difficult conversations and really explain the value proposition and business proposition addition of sustainability zero to three to five ten years from now. <hes> you know what would i like to do. I would like to be in another large company or in the same company that i am and just just keep building momentum. Keep building impact <hes> and really kind of <hes> <hes> in a good way broad cut the company's impact to stakeholders colder who would have thought oh ten years ago. There's no way i thought this rat would be associated with teddy. Impact i wanna continue teaching as well as <hes> you you know absolutely love interacting with students because that gives me a different lens into <hes> into this this conversation 'cause they come at it from a pure in a different way <hes> <hes> and you know if they ask questions which are completely left field and if you can answer that really well. That's a that's a great feeling <hes> what i just want to continue doing what i do. That's really really my plan for the future. That's fantastic and you do what you do. Well and i'd love to be a fly on the wall when you're sitting in a room with <hes> some cranky stakeholders and trying to pitch the s. word which is sustainability so fantastic. Thanks so much for coming on <hes> ca shaka. I'm really appreciate your time now. You're busy man and i'm a look forward would to getting you on in the future sometime. Catch up no thanks. I a big fan of of the word you do <hes> bundles with the podcast and <hes> and i truly i believe the impact you're having isaac is it's amazing so i look forward to keeping track of your progress and <hes> yeah i look forward to the next coffee. Altea say all right. Thanks isaac.

nigeria isaac joe tennis tennis india australia supervisor united states america dr cacique shrida texas lagos dodgers indian school new york ryan tom gleeson ringwood
03-24-20 Learning outside the classroom

Native America Calling

56:30 min | 7 months ago

03-24-20 Learning outside the classroom

"Welcome to native America calling from Studio Forty nine in Albuquerque. I'm Tara Gate. Would there's a lot of uncertainty about the rest of the school year? Some school districts have already closed. Some schools have switched to distance learning for native students without reliable Internet access. Learning from home presents a challenge. We'll learn how some schools are making it work and get some advice on getting through this tricky time. We're live after national native news This is national native news. Antonio Gonzales state funds are being sent to organs at Nine Federally Recognized Tribes for Cove in nineteen response but his Kale sees Brian Bull reports and may not be enough the Oregon Health Authority announced allocating roughly thirty six thousand dollars a piece to tribes in the native American Rehabilitation Association in Portland. It's part of a larger. Four Million Dollar Package Cheryl Kennedy is chairwoman for the confederated tribes of the Grand Ronde. She says that money will go fast. You know of course protective gear Pam sanitizers as well but the other thing that we looked at doing was setting up a temporary hospital at grand drawn and we would need more supplies and a space whether that be those large tents which are very costly to rent. And Disinfect Kennedy says most reservations or rural isolated and not directly connected to major supply chains. She's hoping to get more funds from the Federal Government participated on calls to the White House. They are trustee. There have been appropriations identified for tribe. Yet we have not received a dollar and I'm not saying that we won't every tribe has a federal. Id number. There's the mechanism cut the red tape. Get the funds out now. Travel spokesperson says there have been covert nineteen cases and counties adjacent to the Grand Ron native community. But there's no reason to believe any were associated or had contact with the tribe. I'm Brian Ball community members of the wall. A Pie tribe in Arizona are on a voluntary self isolation order. The Tribal Council declared a state of emergency last week in response to Cova nineteen non essential services and the tribes of business arm are closed which includes the popular tourist Glass Bridge. Skywalk above the Grand Canyon Georgetta Russell from K. W. L. P. has more the Walla Pie tribe located in northwestern. Arizona has responded quickly to protect its community from the spread of the covert nineteen virus within the primarily residential area of the reservation Peach Springs. It's approximately seventeen. Hundred residents include many at high risk to complications from the corona virus is central departments continuing to operate fully include. Police fire any emergency. Medical Services detention facilities the radio station and the Tribes Recovery Transitional House Non Emergency Medical Transportation for dialysis patients. Only an uncle telephone. Behavioral Health Services are continuing also the local. Ihs clinic remains open to provide limited services. That was a report from Peach Springs in New Mexico. The Public Council of Governors which represents twenty tribes is asking the public to refrain from entering Pueblo communities and nearby recreational areas tribal leaders say they're seeing an influx of visitors to their lands as state and Federal Cova nineteen orders call for social distancing ye The general public as a as a nation still visiting still gain out there that Santa Clara Pueblo governor. Joseph Chavarria chair of the All Public Council of Governors important that we just help as a community to support each other and that was a decision that was made. By the governor's being at the schools are closed. A lot of our tribe offices are closed and the reason is to stay home and what it from home and not use it opportunity to go and visit. The place is again for the safety of everybody. Leaders leaders are working to limit the spread of Cova Nineteen as Pueblos report concerns to the all Pueblo Council about lack of testing and sanitation supplies as well as care and support services. Many pueblos are limiting entrance to their communities to tribal members only but others are not able to do so do the need for other essential. Cova Nineteen Response Efforts. Pueblo leaders are urging the public to respect their requests at this time. I'm Antonio Gonzalez. National Native News is produced by Broadcast Corporation the funding by the corporation for public broadcasting support by AARP AARP creates an connects people to unique tools and programmes helps conserve personal resources and tackles issues that matter most to individuals families and communities more at AARP dot org support by be NSF railway. Moving our economy for over one hundred sixty five years our vision to operate injury accident free with safety programs training and technology more at Bien SF dot com slash tribal relations native voice one the native American radio network. This is native America calling. I'm Tara Guy. Would many schools around the country are closed down because of cove nineteen and some others are going online only many dorms or shutdown was student scrambling to get home or forced to find another place to stay? Some high school students have had to adjust to learning exclusively online. Only fifty three percent of the people living on tribal land have access to the Internet. According to the United States census they are put at further disadvantage the longer the pandemic remains a threat. Today you will hear from one school in the Pine Ridge Reservation in South Dakota about how students are adjusting to an all online school. Also get some advice for college students navigating through the uncertainty and we'll hear from one educator who is from an institution that is always online. Are you worried about your own educational future kids and grandkids at home? Trying to continue their studies. Call us and share your experience. The number to join is one eight hundred nine six two eight four eight. That's also one eight hundred nine nine native today we're gonNA start off on the Pine Ridge Community in South Dakota. We have MICA BLACK ELK. He is a director of curriculum instruction at the Red Cloud Indian school. He's a citizen of the OGLALA LAKOTA nation. My pleasure to have him here mccaw welcome. Hi got to be here in. God tells a little bit about the situation at Red Cloud Indian school right now. Yes Oh sing. Last week Red Cloud Indian. School chose to move to an entirely online format. We could For All of our K. Through twelve students we have about six hundred students in our system. And so now. We're in week two of online learning and It's adjusted for everyone and it's going to welfare is actually and so how much planning went into getting everything online when Washington State Some weeks ago decided to close down their schools in the Seattle area. We knew that this might be a possibility. And so the first thing. We did several weeks ago was survey students. We needed to know how many of them had a good Internet access at home and access to A device and That those back and it was much higher than expected Which was great news for. We should have over. Ninety percent of our students have access at home and at all Egypt to note the how we could move forward and so how is the online learning right now? It's a combination of utilizing some learning management systems? In her high school. We have A learning management system college students might be familiar with these things similar to become a different names. Muddle CANVAS BLACKBOARD RIGHT. So we have something like that or not. High school students are in a sort of whole environment at high school. Doing work through canvas and connecting with our teachers daily On platforms Google hangouts for videoconferencing. Resume Those are products that have been made free and more expensive under the Times. A lot of digital companies have their services available to schools during During this difficult time and so our students are actually following their normal schedule everyday checking video having attendance taken having assignments. So that's kind of how they're doing in what's been the reaction from students initially. It's been very good. I mean the students are Finding us to be very unique And I think for especially the young kids were in high school and Middle School today right this generation the so. They're very familiar with technology You know their smartphones play an important role in their daily lives and their social lives This is almost sort of an extension of after them and they really are. You know Internet natives And that is that in more ways than one and so this is becoming quite normal for them and they're really enjoying it so now let me ask what about the teachers. The teachers It varies strikes. Do we have a combination of Younger teachers who are more familiar with digital platforms and are more comfortable with navigating accessing them and of course we have older teachers Who are engaging in a steeper. Learning Curve We of course that our school teach our look to native language and we have some elders who are native language speakers who are teachers and having them hop onto a video. Colin using a digital platform has been a learning curve. But we're working with them every day to make sure that We keep improving because it looks like it's going to go for much longer than initially anticipated. That's emerging in it knowing that you had a plan. And now you're bringing in technology to meet the need. And so Mike through this whole process What are you thinking about? Just the ability to learn seeing that technology is keeping it going in. The students are showing up. What are you thinking? Well I think you know it's an experiment that we're going to not fully know the impact of until some time has passed. I think we can say for sure that our students are engaging every day with their teachers. That are teachers are spending Necessary time to to plan and prepare you like the two of them and I think the hope that our students will continue to Be Given the resources. They need to be academically successful. I think one of the big concerns for beyond just schools is going to be mental health and that is an area that we're still trying to figure out for our school counselors to be able to provide direct support to students at the time of isolation increases. And so when you think of this whole web that you had to put together you know to keep things going. What have been some of the challenges. Maybe there's some folks out there who may benefit from learning your lessons Some of the initial challenges of course where We were lucky to find out that most of our students have Internet access but some didn't Those he did not. We had to Work with local partners of ours so for example. At to provide wireless cellular hotspots for example for those students. And so we're we're covering that and purchasing that I think we were very lucky to also be a one to one school so that means each student had a laptop that they would carry around with them all day. And you're able to send those home to them during the time and so all of a student had a device That was provided to them by the school. And I know a lot of schools may not be in that same situation as as we are So there's just a I think parameters that have fallen into place that made the puzzle teacher and every school is going to be inc. I'm trying their best using all the resources they have to make it work. And what did it take to get to this point hearing that it's a one to one school kids have access to The equipment and then hearing your your high percentage of access to the Internet. Why are you in? The situation was their work to get it to this point. I think it's a combination of a couple of things. one We decided to go to a one to one school Just about three years ago. Four years ago So that's relatively new. We didn't have that for years ago. So if this happened for years ago to have been a much much different story for And so that decision to go into one was really a a decision to increase the digital literacy of our students and our teachers so that they could become more Able to access these tools and you like new learning technologies and from a structural perspective I think You know eight years ago. There was the rural Brad Brad World Broadband Initiative under the Obama Administration. That laid Miles of fiber optic cable On the reservation and other rural areas across the country so decision eight years ago to expand. you know fiberoptic access to community has made a difference today and now you're really seeing how you're dependent on it and that's interesting mccaw. What about younger students? How does all this work for the younger students? So we've been able to Thins laptops home and have a one type of situation for third graders on up and so far. Kindergarteners first graders and second graders What we really wanted to do there was One of survey to see what is their act at home. Did they have access to any device even a parent smartphone? Which you know even in Poorer Communities smartphones are just incredible ubiquitous And so even if they had access to that are K. Through two teachers providing resources for parents sending a paper packet home When we can providing access to digital learning tools that students can even through parents smartphone and then doing regular check ins with those parents to enter question. Maybe get some one. On one time with the kids that they candidate in a digital way And really just going to be a support to parents at home. Who are in many ways to the real educator in the room down in any advice to those parents who are doing that dumb. I'm here. I'm seeing a lot of chatter on social media about Parents getting a a real reality check of the type of math kids. Are Doing these days. Anything you WANNA share yeah And Not Instruction especially the elementary school is different from when a lot of the parents now Learned when they went to school so schools have our teachers available to support those parents. At home. We are sending home Information for parents on how to teach And what concepts are important necessarily more. Or maybe the best way to talk to their students about learning those concepts Just really being a partner. with the teacher And and parents of Having that partnership is going to be really important and I think it shows in general the the strong importance of teacher parents connection even in the best of times and so so that is I think an important parents to do with. Just we'll be in touch with your with your elementary student teacher. Well thank you for that. And maybe you are experiencing all of this and share. Some thoughts with US may be. Your student has gone to online learning what has been the learning curve of this new method. Maybe it's already been incorporated in you feel like your student was ready to just jump into something like this anything. You WANNA share. We're curious today. We're talking about education During this pandemic any thoughts end educators maybe even retired educators. What are you thinking about all this? Maybe you had that one big dream of one day everything online. Now you're hearing this time has come. What are your thoughts? What are other ways to improve learning and what are some of the other challenges? Maybe you face. Some of them will have some educators on the line or in the audience today. And you'd like to share some thoughts go ahead and dial in. We're live give us a ring at one. Eight hundred nine six two eight four eight Ford to inviting you into this conversation and if you have questions to go in dial in students. You're welcome to call two. Nines are open watching cove in nineteen spread throughout the world. And witnessing how that's changing our daily lives in many ways is frightening for a lot of people the necessity staying away from other people heightens isolation. And worry we'll get some tips for staying positive and maintaining good mental health on the next native America calling support for this program. Provided by the American Indian Higher Education consortium the collective spirit and unifying voice of thirty seven tribal colleges and universities for over thirty years. A heck has worked to ensure that tribal sovereignty is recognised and respected and that tribal colleges and universities are included in this nation's higher education system information on a tribal college or university near you at A. H. E. C. Dot org new tuned do native America calling target would from a subtle Pueblo. And we are talking about education through the covert nineteen pandemic. How has it changed his school? You've school year for you. What about for your kids? Call US and tell us about one. Eight hundred tells about it at one. Eight hundred nine six two eight. Four eight and with US IS MACABRE. Black Elk a citizen of the Oglala LAKOTA nation he is the director of curriculum and Instruction at the Red Cloud. Indian school also here with us out of Seattle Washington is Dr Tanya Drake. She is a chancellor in regional vice president of the North West Four Western Governors University and she is coaching first nations. My pleasure to have her here Dr Drake thank you for joining us. Thank you the pleasure to be on your show and so I'm sure as you heard mccaw talking a little bit about what their school is doing. you probably picked up on some things. Your school is entirely online Tell us a little bit more about it. Sure so western. Governors University was created by the states for the states to really serve working adults and we leverage this thing called the Internet twenty plus years ago and have really strived to serve students in an online environment so we do have different programs. That serve mostly workforce needs across the nation And I think would have interest in Indian country including Very timely nursing and healthcare professions as well as teacher education but we also offer business and it program. We'll see that Online learning is not for everyone and yet I find that in the days of Cova did both k twelve and higher ed are scrambling to serve students in new modality with online and so some of the secrets that we have lung for our students success is really lap personalized learning and support system for them. And so we have faculty members who kind of like mckellar talking about Mccain was talking about that one on one support for students. We have faculty members who work with a student And called them every single week to work on their goals and help them with resources and there with that student the through the duration of their program so that the student feels that support throughout their program. we also have something of a unique model As far as affordability And our flexibility Let me start with our competency based model and what competency based means is. We've unlinked time and learning so you know when I went through higher education It was either either a quarter or semester system and and I would go through that and at the end of it I would receive a grade. We've unlinked that for courses so a student can progress. Maybe a few weeks through a course that they already have the knowledge and experience that they can bring and they test out as far as their competencies as soon as they demonstrate competency. They can move onto the next course. So I've been hard at really excels things Maybe a little different than than what we're used to and we think about a school year and what it looks like in in how fast you know you're making it through a different curriculum. I'm hang tight there Dr Drake I got a caller on the line. Who'd like to share some thoughts we have cast Intel's New Mexico listening in on Koa M. Cast? Thank you for giving us a ring in folks you can call two one eight hundred nine six two eight four eight gas. Welcome thank you. It's such a pleasure to be unarmed. Thanks for calling in. What are you thinking? I've been an environmental educator here in New Mexico for about eight years and I just wanted to share some of the resources I have. I know a lot of the current learning situations are very online based in some of these resources are online for example the Association for experiential education or Eighty E. DOT org Their website they've been curated a number of different resources for mental health resources to Online virtual Activities that are sort of more experiential to engage learning locally in New Mexico Environmental Education Association of New Mexico or E. E. A. N. DOT. Org has a response page with its similarly curate curation of different online resources for activities and stuff where people to do including Like Los Alamos Here in New Mexico the Los Alamos education Nature Center has activities. That you have to go online to look at the activities of the activities are encouraging people to go outside and do things and what we've been doing with our networks here in house is just encouraging people to take this time to Students especially but really all people can take this time to start a journal observed nature from backyard. Maybe find a secret spot that you go to every day and just visit that spot and Track the changes and to stay. Active outdoors You know safely. Well thanks for those resources CASS. Great to hear from you there in town New Mexico again. Phone lines are open. One eight hundred nine nine six two eight. Four eight is a number Any thoughts maybe even some concerns. How are you getting your students through the rest of the school year? Call us in chair. The number to join is one eight hundred nine nine six two eight four eight in Dr Drake. Furthermore about the the way the instruction is going. What are some key things to know about what you can gain from online learning? Sure so I think in this time There's a lot of individuals who are considering sort of maybe options those that who may be started in higher education but didn't pursue it to bachelor's or master's degree or those who have a bachelor's degree who want to might who might want to pursue a master's degree This is certainly in an opportunity For them to move forward I will say. The flexibility as far as affordability is another benefit So our tuition models a little bit different in the sense of you pay one a flat tuition rate. It's about thirty five hundred dollars for six months and you can start any month of the year And with that you can get through as many classes as you can get through that time period. I'm so during this time of volatility. It's a really quick affordable way to maybe pivot if this is the time that you're chasing in different career options in what about Students who are transitioning online overnight. This is what they're doing. What's your advice to them. Sure so a couple of things I think you do need to think about First and foremost yourself your family and community and and making sure that they're well But second I you know there's little things that you can do like sticking a space out in your house to make sure that you have some time and space to do this and then also setting some time in your schedule Maybe you have time to study in the morning or late evening when your family members are still in bed And just making some personal goals each week and because we're in volatile times Maybe it's even day by day And then moving forward on those schools and I think you know just being brave and have courage. I'm sue this difficult time. It's probably first and foremost would I would advise the this is about time management. Anything bad about that. Dr Drake sure. Time Management sometimes varies on a week by week and so our students might have time to study this evening and tomorrow evening but they might not be able to study again until the next morning but if they are looking at time management On a week by week basis and setting those goals I think are probably the the best advice. Our students get And then having somebody that they can go to maybe to share those goals and help them hold themselves accountable or people they can go to for resources and as our last caller just Called in about looking for additional resources that you can do for those time management and at home learning to drink a lot of times the learning experience you learn from your peers. Are Anything set up with this online learning To even have peer to peer contact. We do so although a lot of our learning is done an individual level and we know that learners love learning with other people and so we do have faculty members who hold live webinars where students can call in. They can talk to other students. They can talk about topics. Those are also recorded so individuals who are not able to join lives are able to go back through and connect with other students we also have online student groups So maybe if you're a veteran and you want to connect with other veterans or you're in their cyber security program and you want to connect with others in that field. We have individual groups that you can connect with as well. Thank you for that Mccaw is also here with this mccaw blackout from the Red Cloud Indian school. Mccosh just hearing how. This school is set up Any other thoughts and and I'm also wondering about that. Peer to peer contact right now in our management systems We are able to have a number of different features That allows students interact period period. He from the traditional discussion board Messaging Board To chat rooms in the Google hangouts or zooms or in Just the way that they're able to interact on other platforms as well when the popular ones right. Now he's a is called slip grid which is where students can record video and up themselves either talking ranch and a question and that that he was shared to a a an entire page within the confines and comment on other students videos. And that's a popular device that our teachers used so there's different ways that they can interact as well live via google chat Chat fashion in in. What about Time Management? Any thoughts on that. That's something that we're definitely keeping track of so Our attendance is what it would have been one of our initial big concerns and it turns out that that's been Really fruitful We're having over ninety percent Attendance every single day students are checking getting getting onto their video. Call having our teachers have them regular check in Is crucial to helping them. Sort of managed and turn their assignments as normal So got really trying to build a piece that having someone else there to support them and they're very It's very helpful. That teachers are there to help them do that. and I think also keeping to a particular schedule And that's what we've been doing. We've been keeping to a normal schedule as close as we can. Well you know the more I learn about all this. I'm wondering you know what the students are thinking. We know they tune-in we know your parents know about this show Now's your time. Maybe you don't always get to call in today make it today. One eight hundred nine nine six two eight. Four eight is a number. Let's go in and take all we're going to hear from Phil Bird in mission. South Dakota tuned in on Kale. Why thank you for giving us a ring year on here? Thank you and I very much. Appreciate the opportunity to You part of the discussion here this afternoon. In what would you like to share? Well I'm the provost that's Integris University. Which is one of the older Travel colleges in the country and We'RE GETTING READY TO CELEBRATE OUR fiftieth anniversary right. And we've been talking a lot about the future and while we're reacting to a very serious situation around the world regarding people's health And O- obviously workflows it education. I I I'm looking more as an opportunity and yes we have to take care of business right now at hand but what. We need to change in the future. I really believe that. This is a wake-up call Impart from traditional prophecies that there are going to be changes like this coming and has educators. What do we need to do what they can? Down the rule of the future about changing things that I think the time is ripe in. What do you think this time is showing us is specifically what needs to change? They'll work. I think everything that we had in terms of Western your Western culture values We had our own education system at one. Point ended up people and I think while we've talked about it and almost gave that two separate departments or whatever like that I think we have to come together. Collectively we as a nation and and looking at what is going to take to The the future so I guess right now. The timing of this situation is is upon us when we're getting ready to be accredited by the higher learning Commission they're coming to do a review here next week for accreditation efforts and all by virtue interview. First Time that's ever happened usually. Sat shows up but the point here being as they're moving toward digital technology that won't be the face to face and so whether it'd be looking at the evidence. I think us being able to tell a story about how we do. Our work and one of the more poorest counties the United States here on the Rosebud reservation and how we need to do things differently. I think the rest of the world is going to wake up to that We've talked a lot about culture education I wouldn't hang my hat. Even though it's a younger generation world on on the digital technology but I think we have an opportunity to reinforce traditional knowledge our beliefs around Our culture Where we you know come from in terms of our origins and so I've had to secure federal legislation. Other things to really as a sideline I think we can move that agenda up first and foremost I think in terms of workforce development not. Everybody wants a a college degree. And if you look at all the people that are hurting in the country They're not necessarily credential people but they're very important part of the economic fabric. I'm talking about The elections plumber's truck drivers all those individuals that keep this country and really the world moving forward in. Throw that in in the equation to lots of great ideas. They'll bird glad you called in. Thank you for giving us a ring. Is this a time to rethink our learning how we'RE EDUCATING OUR YOUTH? One eight hundred nine six two eight four eight and mccaw. We got a couple of minutes before break. Any thoughts after we. After hearing a out of mission South Dakota I think that definitely education is a constant evolution and You know the idea of sort of bringing a traditional indicates education traditional Indian knowledge knowledge into the classroom Be hampered by digital. Talk in fact it can be enhanced as their even oral education being a valuable Can still happen through digital tools. And so we're seeing that we can do really interesting things. What do you think about that that? Maybe this is the time to really think about what's not working in time to change it. I think schools of for a long time have been certainly thinking about what works. What doesn't work but I would say yes absolutely worth seeing right now that stream on the traditional education system especially in like they're mean as some of our tool Might be Might be good to rethink some of them and update them for example You know the way state. Mandates certain testing lot of seeking our our Shutting down standardized testing for the year because of the difficult situation. So how do we? How measure Without that Or How do we measure? Better student outcomes Going be a really important question going forward. Well thank you for that and we got another break. My this hour's going by fast all right now is the time is going by fast. That means it's less time for you to call in so you need to do it right now. One eight hundred nine six two eight four eight is your number is a number that you call to get into this conversation. We look forward to hearing from you. A teacher's if you're in the listening audience go headway in any thoughts. And maybe you just have some thoughts for your students about how they are navigating the rest of their school year. Go ahead and call in one. Eight hundred nine six two eight. Four eight is a number. We look forward to your questions to got a question For Dr Drake or mccaw go ahead and dial in now. One eight hundred nine six two eight. Four eight is a number coming up after the break. We're going to hear from the American Indian College Fund so stay tuned look. It's the circle of life that teaches us to take care of each other to use our voice when we are in need like the circle of life. There is an opportunity that comes around every ten years a chance to participate and let others know we are and where we are the twenty twenty cents. This will be our opportunity to shape our future for generations to COME SHAPE. Our Future start here. Learn more at twenty twenty cents is dot. Go fee paid for by US Census Bureau? There is still time if you want to join our conversation here on native America calling. I'm Tara Gatewood. We are looking forward to your comments and college students. Did you have to head home? Unin unexpectedly Are you concerned about finishing the semester? Then purdue join us is one eight hundred nine nine six two eight four eight with us out of Denver. Colorado today is Kelly Mitchell. She's a senior student. Success Coach for the American Indian College Fund and Kelly is. Dna. My pleasure to have her here. Kelly welcome to be here and kill uring. How one school is adjusting. How another one has really made online their foundation And then we think of a students and coming from that aspect of maybe. Some of our college students What are some of their concerns right now? Especially we hear. A lot of the students had to leave Some of them might not even have a place to turn to or are even facing you know. They paid the money for the dorm but they have to leave water student. What are you hearing from students? Kelly right now Are you hearing things from students of? Just worry majorly the unknown. Because you know our students are like you just said they're being Asked to leave the campus. Campuses are closing Greece. Verses are closing and so everything is that we tell our students to use on campus resources. They have no access to now and so definitely the unknown a big issue just because they don't know exactly how you know. I guess just in the regular population. Everyone's not too sure what to expect next. And we're just going kind of day by day on our side and communicating with our scholars. You know we're just taking it day by day to help to see what we need to help with support. What are some of the obstacles that college students are facing? Maybe even studying from home. Oh Yeah Absolutely I mean major one As mentioned previously is definitely access to Internet access to computers to complete their college courses. you know just having that one on one interaction as you know the previous guys. Dr Jacobs said is crucial. It's crucial to even arts education with our callers on a day to day basis but having that disconnect with no interaction with their peers and their instructors. It's GONNA be a great. You know great impact on their learning curve and then also just it's a total life adjustment for all of our scholars because it's not just affecting one person in the household it's pretty much affecting the whole household because our students some of them are non traditional and then are shown students and you have to consider the fact that they might have families their kids. They're now at home every now they're college. Kids are back home and so she's doing that big adjustment and then on top of it if they lost their jobs. This you know it's a decrease in income So there's just a number of things that are happening with our scholars right now that we're trying to address work with in talk to be more. That's open that a little bit more financially. What our students telling you about how they're being impacted. Oh yeah absolutely So we're reaching out to our scholars and just some of the information that they're sharing such strating because and there's only so much that we can do to help them but some students you know they depend on is they're they're Work steady checked. You know that is carrying them a lot or you know their jobs at Had to be closed. That check alone is also helping them as well. And so now you have to think you know that extra either two hundred one hundred dollar. Check his now being removed from their income. And now that the you know they have to work from home and they have no Internet access but now they have to get it for their schooling and then for kids schooling that extra increase in bill and then the negative income coming in is really pretty strain on our student in causing a lot of stress And I'm wondering you know when we think of all these other factors that play into what your grades turn out being What else needs to be discussed? Give us a call. One eight hundred nine six two eight. Four eight is the number and Kelly. How is the American Indian College Fund? Helping students work through all this. Yeah so on a day-to-day basis for sharing as much resources as possible. Like for instance mccaw. That was a great information about the flip grid. I'm definitely GONNA try to look into that and use that as a resource but also doing Other stuff doesn't we're looking at three major areas and support right now and Working with our travel colleges on IT infrastructure. No emergency aid for students. Chiefs do professional development how we can support in those areas and Just work with our students are cheetos and the students that are going to non tribal colleges as though well thank you for sharing. Kelly got another caller on the line again. If you WANNA join US little time left dial right now. One eight hundred nine nine six two eight four eight. We go to Kobe in Albuquerque. New Mexico TUNE IN ON K. Unm thanks for giving us a ring. What's on your mind Kobe? Good Morning I vision rehabilitation therapists. Their work with students with visual impairments elderly people. That's visual so my concern in this wonderful conversation is to make sure that all of these digital platforms are accessible to screen readers Things that do the text to speech or Adapted the platform. All of these ideas. Today are just terrific. Thanks so much all right. Thank you for calling Kobe Great. You're listening there in Albuquerque and Dr Drake I'll start with you any thoughts. Sure I think that's a really great point and I think Individuals should make sure that any institution that that they Pursued does have those options Including both visual and hearing impaired Or Access We certainly do And would be happy to share some of those resources with others who are exploring this and moving their platforms online because it is really important that we provide access for all so I I love the colors perspective. Contact YOU DR. Drake sure and they can contact us at Wvu Dot Edu for our resources. All right thank you for that and thank you. You just heard from Dr Tone. Tanya Drake from Western governors university and Mikan any thoughts our caller Kobe. Yeah absolutely I think That was something a lot of schools especially in K. twelve arena are dealing with right now You know the individuals with disabilities education. Act took a very clear that Our services need to be able to meet all students And so we moved to the environment. It's going to be very important for those Tools to be accessible to all students. And that's something that is going to be different. It's going to be different struggle for schools depending on population in the students that they are We have not come into into that challenge yet with certain particular disabilities but that is something But also drinking right now all right. Thank you for that again. Komi thanks for calling in. We heard a little bit about concerns of college students in MCI. Turning back to you This is a very important time for our high school folks People who are getting ready to go to college There's time test taking And even the big ones that come from the state Any thoughts on any of this or just updates on how you're handling this part of things and of course what students are worrying about. Am I even going to graduate? How can I graduate? Am I gonNA walk go ahead? Mika absolutely that Something that we're hearing already from our own Currency years is what does it mean in terms of I graduated high school. We also have a lot of recent graduates who go to college who are now having to return back to cut it back to our reservation and there's been lots of challenges that that has been talked about right financial hardship in terms of even just being able to afford to Return after the campus. Both on them so There's a real sense amongst especially our senior class right now in terms of what is going to mean. Not only just the the following two months prior to graduation but does it mean for next fall when I should be entering college. Where at the time of year when a lot of our seniors have Starting to receive acceptance letters from colleges that they've applied to But I do know that certain colleges are starting to think how long my last And that is definitely not students. Minded part broader stress and notable of its environment. Kelly anything to add on that. Yeah I would just add that You know online resources but you know any questions are here to help with any of that area to provide any resources available for students at the time and we know there is a very large push in our tribal communities to make a pathway for students to go to higher education. And now this is going on Are you worried that some might not ever go back killing? Yeah absolutely Gadget mentioned before you know. Some students are very stressed about moving from in person classes online and just having that stress on top of all the other stresses definitely giving students uncertainty if they're able to continue or even if x classes are going to be fully online because you know that impacts students in the coalfields are students that have labs classes or get into that are in studio art. I mean that's fully all in person on hand and so Kelly as we push forward in you know in the Times that we're in anymore advice on how to navigate. You know your own educational path. Yeah I'd absolutely say like you during this time. It's crucial mean. We stressed that before about communication. But right now Definitely Communications between Gary Advisor your structures Even like your mentor. Urban your cure very very High at this point right now and it could definitely help you something small just finding other resources finding different but definitely I urge everyone just the push through even though we all have our different challenges You know there's not gonna be a one hundred percent Formulas to get through this but you know as a group we can all try to rely on yourself rely on each other and communicate and you know. Just keep your head out. Then you've got this flyer so you can definitely finish out all right. Thanks Kelli in Dr Drake. Any final comments sure. I think it's very normal to feel a little apprehensive or I Dunno unsure about pursuing online learning. But let me just say the online learning has really changed. And Technology in our world has changed. I think about my banking experience and now I do all my banking online and don't do anything in person rarely at a bank and online learning has really grown and changed to be very personalized supportive of individuals. And so I would just say be bold and be courageous and begin to explore those options. Thank you for that. In Macau block elk any final comments. I would just say you know I think in this time of crisis we've been able to Turn to digital tools to help go through it and and I agree with Dr. Drake that Online learning is so different from five years ago. Ten years The advances in technology really allowed us to really create a thing and innovative things. And we're really thankful to have those tour in the time And hopefully people can continue to adapt and language other Tell you mentioned any thoughts to our educators because you know a lot of times Our teachers are the ones that we turn to Sometimes they're they're the one solid adult we can talk to in our lives any thoughts tour. Educators who are also just even missing their students something that we have paying to. Our teachers throughout this process is that we just need to be patient that this is going to be challenging That this is a new frontier for all of us. This is a really new environment is unprecedented and to hold each other In regard of of that and be patient their students be patient with your administrators. The patient yourselves as you navigate new environment and Our Day our goal is always to be there for the students to help them achieve their best and we can still keep beckel in mind even in even in this time and of course any words to your students or any students are listening right now. Mccaw I would say Hanging there show up and log in and communicate. That's I think the day in this time `isolation Communication is going to be critical. Not just for your continued learning but also for archie relationship-building all. Right thank you for that and maybe after hearing this hour. You're rethinking what your student is doing how much they're navigating. And you WANNA give them some ups you can always reach out to us You can post directly on our website native America calling dot com or on facebook and you can even tweet your thoughts to us at one eight hundred nine native and maybe year student in. You just want to celebrate yourself. You know. You're doing good work. We can tell us about it. We appreciate anytime you share with us. Emails can be sent to comments and NATIVE AMERICA CALLING DOT com. Thank you again to everybody. We heard from on this program. And if you miss anything or you wanted to hit rewind you can find this program in our archives honor podcasts. Itunes soundcloud institure. Thank you again to Dr Tanya Drake Kelly Mitchell McConnell Blackhawk and tomorrow we will be back with the conversation about how to Managing Society will facing cove nineteen. I'm your host. Harrogate would thank you for spending your day with us here on Native America. Calling in the rest of our lineup can be found on her website. And if there are discussions that you'd really like to hear on this program reach out to US suggest to show or maybe there's somebody doing something in your community that deserves a highlight. You can always tell us about them. We appreciate your ability to get us closer to your own community again. Email comments native America calling dot Com. I'm Tara Gatewood. Smoking gave me. Copd which makes it harder and harder for me to breathe. I have a tip for you. If your doctor gives you five years to live spend it talking with your grandchildren. Explained to him that your ground personnel around anymore to share his wisdom and his love. I haven't figured out how to do that yet. I'm running out of time. Copd makes it harder and harder to breathe and can cause death. You can quit for free. Help call one eight hundred quit now. A message. From the Centers for disease. Control and prevention suddenness go he got Donny. Ski Eka on a day he asked Sauna. Heskey a guy you could get new hot tea Toe Hit death toll. Yossi Odile Heskey allottees ski show. Where like Doto? Nota view go to Delo hysteria duly you-know-who Ella healthcare dot Gov a lead one eight hundred three one eight two five nine six buckets and know. Seh Medicare elimidate Unitas Guy. Native America calling is produced in the Annenberg National Native Voice Studios in Albuquerque New Mexico by Quantum Broadcast Corporation and native nonprofit media organization. Funding is provided by the corporation for public broadcasting with support from the public radio. Satellite Service. Music is by Brent Michael Davids native native American radio network.

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1st day of school: The little Rock Nine Preview

The Black History Buff Podcast

08:15 min | 9 months ago

1st day of school: The little Rock Nine Preview

"Welcome to the black history. Buff podcast a show focused on things black historical interest in and hidden. I'm your host King crews and this is a bonus episode came about accidentally while researching segregation in the American education system. I was never a lover of school and because I view this cost as much as a community project as I do my own. I wanted to hear some listener experiences. And maybe offset some of my own bias. So I reached out on social media. You can find me on instagram and twitter. An ARC's people to send me audio notes about their first days at school. I was inundated with clips and hearing all of your experiences really influence the direction of the episode. So what next is a short snippet of just a few of those clips? But before I played him. I just WanNa say thank you to Ometepe Yumi. Richard courant Noah Chris Mariam. Rpm Anti everyone else. You sent me audio. The voices you're about to hear off from Korea. Nigeria Birmingham Canada and London. Currently the show has listeners in over a hundred countries something. I'm totally blown away by. Thank you to everyone who supported the show and me over the loss Eurosur. It's been a rough journey. A lot happens in between record in these episodes and a support ending courage man and feedback of Gordon from you as a lifted me through some really tough times so this year as a thank you. I'll be sharing. Some of what goes on in between recording episodes on my patriot and pod fan feeds links in the description the recordings on there will be accessible to anyone for no charge but whilst you on the platform please consider leaving at their nation as the contributions you make helped me to keep the show. Advertising Free and helps covered. Numerous production costs anyway enough. My lover his audio. We kick things off with comedy from Birmingham. First at school was incredibly traumatic and stressful. I was three years old. Among mum left me I cried. Lots associated bonded me forever and I think deep deep ima subconscious. I still haven't quite forgiven for it. I think it was a sunny day. Pretty Nice weather and I kind of fell lost because everything was new. It was a new situation new people and as a kid I was pretty scared by everything and especially news situations free primary schools that gain in fights and all of them. So I kinda vow to myself not anymore. This new school secondary school and a Lo and behold gonNA fight a first and second. I remember it because it was my loss ever had I love. I ate experience my first day in school. I mean the only thing I could remember what My uniforms were I think what kind of oversized struggling to hold my pants. And Yeah it's a strange. Outta of course. That was crying all the way through. Just go but eventually liked it after like three days of being forced to go to school lounge. My first memories of school begin with kindergarten and going to school for the first time and the whole routine of walking to school in the morning and listening for the bell to ring and using my breakfast ticket or lunch ticket to get my food from the cafeteria and then engaging with other students in class especially with my first kindergarten teacher who I remember so fondly because she was warming engaging to be honest. I can't remember my first day at school but one thing I do remember. Is My mother telling me that she had taken me to school and she was preparing for me to have this episode or separation anxiety and didn't she's like Christopher. I'm going to leave here. Have a good day. Okay bye and she was so taken aback by that that she waited for me to fall out but she said that I went into the classroom and I didn't even look back. And she said that she went to the car and she started crying. Because you choose one let the separation anxiety. I think one thing. That was very helpful as I started out going to basically a west Indian school. All my teachers were from the West. Indies immigrated here and everyone that I knew was Caribbean. I don't think I saw white person until I was like nine years old and so I think going to school full. The people who are either first generation west Indian kids west in themselves was very much like homes. I didn't feel as if I was an outsider. I was made to feel different or foreign. It really did send me up for success and I remember as as students walking through the hallways in singing the school song. I don't know how many other children did that but I think that speaks to. How well we love our school at that time once again. I WanNa thank everyone. He sent me free audio clips. And if you'd like to share an audio story with me I'd love to hear it. Just reach out to me via social media or email me at podcast at black history. Buff DOT COM. I'm going to be releasing the episode that birth. This bonus clip very soon. But here's a short preview to keep going to. Then I remember my stay at school. It was a small new school in Brixton Bara in London England. I remember my mother gave me dressed in singing songs on the radio. I remember mean appointed. Go home it was just me my little sister. My mom and I just didn't WANNA leave him. I remember this short walk from my house. Pasta coon shop in the bushes and then over the Zebra Cross and down the road. That would take me to effort nursing school. The place where it's been the next head. I remember every detail of that. I remember the Alsatian Duke. Charles that had to pass on the balked at me every single day. I remember the cracks in the pavement. Outside the green grosses we hit the Pentagon lines. Test is crossing just google. I remember arriving at school and being my teacher. Georgy a beautiful dark skinned woman from Grenada. She smelt like cocoa butter pink moisturizing hair oil. Cool Meal Porridge and love. I didn't know at the but Georgie will turn out to be the only black teacher I would ever have. You've been this into a bonus episode of the black issue of PODCAST and you'll host King Curtis

black history west Indian school Richard courant Noah Chris Mar Ometepe Yumi instagram ARC King Curtis twitter google Birmingham Korea Gordon Lo Pentagon Georgie Georgy Brixton Bara Charles Nigeria
Margaret Tafoya born - August 13, 1904

This Day in History Class

06:35 min | 1 year ago

Margaret Tafoya born - August 13, 1904

"Today's episode is brought to you by fresh. Cravings fresh craving salsa is made with fresh vine ripened tomatoes crisp handpicked vegetables and zesty zesty peppers and spices. I had the mild spice version of the salsa and it was pretty much. The perfect level of spicer me the flavor is all melt together really nicely and the consistency is perfect to put on a chip it also has this homemade salsa taste and it's never cooked or pasteurized. It's refrigerated and sold in the produce section and it's made by a family owned arizona based company. You can find fresh craving salsa at the store near you or you can visit it. Fresh cravings dot com this day in history. Class is a production of iheartradio greetings. Everyone welcome to this day in history class. Where we learn a smidgen of history every day. Today is august thirteenth twenty nineteen. The day was august thirteenth nineteen. O four tayla potter. Maria margarita to foia also known as margaret to foia was born in santa clara play blow in new mexico. The market was part of a long line of potters and her pottery was known around the world. The people are a group of pueblo native americans that speak the language. Santa clara is one of several tehuelche speaking pueblos. Santa clara is known for the pottery. It's artists produce produce particularly their red and black polished pottery. The pottery tradition and santa clara began around five hundred fifty e. when the playable able people turned away from hunting and gathering and developed agriculture pottery was valuable trade for more than a thousand years but once wants the santa fe trail opened in eighteen twenty one machine made products became increasingly popular santa clara utilitarian pottery began to be viewed as art by anthropologists historians art collectors and other outsiders marketa foyers family had been artists for generations ends her mother sarafina also known as autumn leaves started teaching her how to make pottery when she was a child her father jeronimo mojo also known as white flower helped sell his wife's pottery margaret went to the pueblo elementary school and went to santa fe indian school. Oh but she dropped out to help her family. During the flu epidemic of nineteen eighteen she left santa clara to work as a housekeeper waitress and in cook in nineteen twenty four she married all cario to foia and soon moved back to santa clara margaret and her mother were known for are making large pots worth thirty inches or seventy six centimeters or higher. She made hand coiled pottery using clay. Only from santa clara land land the clay is dried ground mixed with water and needed the pottery is coil built coated with flip stone polished in fired with wood or dung or both using her fingers to foia put lines in the clay designs to use included mountains rain clouds buffalo horns water serpents bear claws and kiva steps she preferred impressed and carved carved designed to painted designs which many of her contemporaries used she insisted that future generations follow the traditional process assets of creating pottery using natural fuels to fire their work and rub the surfaces of their pottery smooth with the stone margaret britt helped bring back the use of polychrome or pottery decorated in multiple colors which had fallen out of favor by the late nineteenth century in the nineteen thirties and nineteen forties she experimented with orange outline designs and greek and roman for him that she adapted to santa clara shapes shapes later she focused on red or black phases storage jars olives in bowls and allah is a vessel used for storage orange or cooking at first margaret and her husband al cario took her pottery to cities and fairs and sold it as more people became interested in collecting native american art in the nineteen fifties to feuer's art became renowned worldwide at that point they no longer had to travel to sell l. her work directly as people began traveling to the play blows and placing orders for it she had twelve children two of whom died before they turned and one she won many awards including the new mexico governor's award for excellence in the arts and her works were displayed in several exhibitions and margaret died in february of two thousand one at her home in santa clara pueblo when she died she was survived by nine children nine thirty grandchildren forty five great grandchildren and eleven great great grandchildren. Many descendants have also become come accomplished potters in the traditional style. I'm eve's jeffcoat and hopefully you know a little more about history today than you did yesterday <music> and if you're so inclined you can follow us at t. i. h._c._c. podcast on instagram facebook and twitter <music>. We'll see you tomorrow for more podcasts from iheartradio vis the iheartradio the app apple podcasts or wherever you listen to your favorite shows and we're back at ron burgundy podcast season two baby wendy pressure team. What do i brush my teeth. Whenever what else does on holidays and sometimes i forget. I'm not perfect. This is smell of your breath. Bother you mean the smell of rare steak and aged whiskey no airline that doesn't bother me. Listen to the ron burgundy podcast on apple podcasts odd guests or on the iheartradio app or wherever you find your podcasts.

Santa clara santa clara margaret santa clara margaret britt santa clara pueblo santa fe indian school ron burgundy apple iheartradio flu arizona instagram Maria margarita pueblo elementary school mexico new mexico feuer al cario wendy
EP 49 - MODERN-DAY ALCHEMY with Frater I.C.L. and Bryant Walker

Shut Up I Love It

53:31 min | 5 months ago

EP 49 - MODERN-DAY ALCHEMY with Frater I.C.L. and Bryant Walker

"Hello, this is Sasha and this is J.. Showed up I. Love it a podcast where we invited guest or guests to talk about something underrated, underappreciated unknown bailed hidden from the world. Something like that quiz here at the studio today Jay. Well today we have returning guests Bri Walker. neuropsychiatric counselor, a practitioner of ceremonial magic and a member of the Golden Dawn Welcome Brian Thank you. It's great to be back and who else is here? We have an guest today. A new guest to the podcast. He is a former officer in the United States, Marine Corps an aerospace engineer and a practicing alchemist his. He's here under a pseudonym of sorts. We're GONNA. BE REFERRING TO HIM AS fodder I C. L welcome frater welcome. Thank you, thank you and in full disclosure, also a member of the same organization that. Bryant is the the Hermetic Order of the Golden Yes. Yes indeed. Distinguish it from the. The Greek Group of. Nazis, that has nothing at all to do with our. Our group that started in the late eighteen hundreds okay. Nazi groups. As well. Fortunately in the past ten fifteen years or so. An ultra right nationalist group in Greece. Tried to adopt that name and that's sad because. It has a long in venerable history and esoteric. A bummer. That's almost like if you named your daughter Isis. Ten Years A. Very similar already out. In, the name changes per APPS and. Remind our listeners. Last Time Bryant was here. We talked about the cult, and we talked about the golden dawn quite a bit. Yes, so there's definitely podcast available for you all out there to check out and get. Deep into that and learn from that. But, what are we here to talk about today? Well I could further elaborate on that and go deeper into ceremonial magic, but especially get into alchemy which I was taught here by my by my mentor and That's his area of expertise and also some other stuff that I think he could elaborate on more. That's. Just interesting, crazy like demonic evocation and you. Some of those stories I've heard from them over. The years are amazing and strange, and the usual last episode that we did with you you. Fraud was involved in in I think one of your stories with the shadow entity or something that you've seen right so so just for people who've listened to the last episode. Your meeting at character. that appeared previously the story so. This is the guy that kept telling me find the demon to me when I was pretty new at the game. So let's start with argument so the way I understand alchemy right. There's just a lay woman. Understanding is that it is an ancient precursor to chemistry mostly focused on the. Transforming more with base elements into gold, so that's sort of the real life magic of the. Ancient Ages or Middle Ages is how I think of. So. What is the modern state of all me? What is it that you're involved into? And I think it's worse kind of because because it is an ancient art. And it is an art that has maintained much of its ancient character in modern times and so I think it's worth it to have a little bit. Of background more to the point that alchemy was like you said it was an ancient precursor to chemistry and medicine, and it was alchemists primarily that created the scientific method. On largely in medicine and chemistry, par prior to our modern era. There were there were medical texts and other texts on how to mix things together that and get certain compounds out of it that were. You know basically from even older eras and there wasn't a lot of. Effort to to. Prove certain theories. They just believed it. Kind of like people believed scriptures right that if this particular guy back in two hundred BC wrote. Here's what you do for this. Then follow that and don't question it. It was. alchemists like Raymond, lowy and para. Celsius and Other figures like that which brought in the modern concept of well actually we should demonstrate whether these things work or not, and what they do, and it was, so it was kind of a meeting point between the spiritual faith and scientific proving and so. There was obviously. And the purely modern time, a complete divesting of spiritual aspect to alchemy become modern chemistry, but. In my opinion, there's also been a resurgence of value placed on that spiritual component especially in psychology where you get psychologists like Carl young and. Early you know perspectives from Freud. Where they started to realize that there was a lot of truth to the way, alchemists wrote about things and studied things to how the mind affects the work you're doing and the mind effects nature. That's interesting. Yeah, so that Overall statement he just made. The mind affects matter and. Mind, if affects the Matt, handle most right for the alchemist. So that you you see that okay, so that that also connects to me to the call something we talked about last time right so for connection between the mind. That's why yeah I mean I'd say. alchemists originally were trying to find like the manifestation of spirit or God in nature. They were trying to understand what creation was. They were very. They were using the. Methods of science and religion mixed together to try and find the truth, ultimately the truth of what the Universe is was something they were trying to not only understand, but demonstrate in the laboratory, and and the reason why you get to this concept of converting metal base metals like lead into gold was because the viewed gold is the highest spiritual expression of the Kingdom of medals and they've used. Lead is the most based system common. And the viewed the if they were right about their view of creation and how? Humanity would develop. They didn't quite have the word evolve at that time, but that modern alchemists would use the language evolve into something greater. then. If, they could prove that they were right by showing a laboratory on a piece of metal. That can do this then they demonstrate that their principles are correct that there's A. Way To evolve not just medals, but mankind plants, animals creation itself into a higher state ceremonial magic in. It's more illuminated for him, not the form of. Sorcery for money and and and. Getting getting? Lovers in jobs and things like that ceremonial magic for the purpose of enlightenment illumination shares the same goal as alchemy in its purest form. It's it's bassist form is. Is there a way that can get rich by converting this cheap metal into expensive metal and make a profit? On that's the basis form of Alchemy, the more refined aspect just like the more find aspect of a cultism. is to obtain the conversation a knowledge of the year. The highest part of your soul, the hired the golden dawn refers to is the higher genius right, and so so the because. When I hear the word, alchemy and The whole history of it, but. I To me like saucer mentioned. It's always been characterized by this pursuit of changing changing baser metals into gold. So what you're saying is you're like there was a a lot more going on. That was just one run elements of it. Well, that was the baser form of it the higher alchemists, we're trying to turn lead to gold as a proof of their spiritual beliefs and theories about the way, the mind and nature. Interact about how the outer reality is an expression of inner consciousness, and that they're ultimately linked the the as above so below. Concept and they wanted to prove that in a small micro way in their own laboratory, and they knew those who had been able to show that. In one or more different forms would have these. Moments of Satori to use a Japanese turn where it would completely change their consciousness. Summit he in in the Yoga language like robot, he like when you one with the higher beam right and in seeing is. Believing in that sense. If you watch that principle, evolve in front of you out of yourself, you see it. It happens in a corresponding way internally. And a most people who practice laboratory alchemy have felt that in the various minor stages as they go through the work they connect with the distillation, the calcium, the the various mixing, and and so forth. Go through in Alchemy you start to have that tangible sense that it's happening to you and you actually start to. Get proof of that happening by how other people react to you, they start. What are you doing? It's working. I remember. My ex-wife said to me one time POW you seem so much cleaner in your mind after I'd been really doing lab work strongly for a period of several months, and it's true it. It is a kind of self therapy that that helps you resolve your dysfunctions. Cleanse your soul clear your head, purify your heart, and and that's what the real value of Alchemy. Both the inner side of it and the laboratory so right now in my can you explain to us what because when I hear again? When I hear Alchemy? I'm thinking I'm just imagining chemistry like primitive former of early chemistry, but you're implying is that there's there's more like a spiritual ritual element to it. Can you describe what these? Ancient Elkins were doing like aside from just pouring chemicals into different beakers and observing the. Effects like what else is like. What what what separates it? From just chemistry. Well there there was among the monks, the early Christian monks that practice alchemy. There was a saying. that the practice should involve. League a lake, a leg, a Railay, gay or a libra, which which means read reread reread you know. Pray and work, and so there was. The ritual wasn't. Aspect that you see in ceremonial magic is not what you see in Alchemy you don't see people getting up in robes and tracing geometric patterns in the era, invoking divine names. What you see is. People who are? Who are converting the focus of their mind through a lot of study of Al Chemical. Tax, which are deeply philosophical at the same time instructive. Then you see them. Turning their mind through meditation or prayer towards a higher goal, asking for insight into the secrets of nature, and then you see them actually attempting to work out their inspiration in an actual chemistry like experiment where there are flasks, and and you know. There's there's fires that are heating flasks. They're watching, you know. Vapors distill off of substances leaving residue behind that they didn't work through another process and repeat defy and over, and over again cycle these these vapors and condensates substrates to to purify them in you know is done automatically for industrial purposes today. They did by hand in a very repetitious patient methodical meditative way. They watched the circulation. Of these substances and then would see. What to them were miraculously products come out of some of which we understand scientifically today, other products still remain very anomalous and are not well understood, and especially among those who who practice the Acetate path, which is one form of the laboratory alchemy. I can go at some point the different forms of laboratory outcome because there are many schools of it. One thing I've always thought it's Inter interesting maybe for like the layman is that. What was the experiment where they like? Physicists had shown that they can transmute lead to gold through it into like a with a particle accelerator. Microscopic, so they showed they could that. It's physically possible within the physics. It's like the amount of energy it takes to do that is so. Japanese scientists right and he and he was able to take like a piece of mercury and add another whatever proton to it to make gold I believe it was right like sure. Happened like like. Thirty forty years ago, but yeah, you might have energy that. It took to do that like a lab would just made like. Transmuting gold or whatever completely impractical, but but but but it can't be done right if you bombard mercury with enough. With enough energy, one more interesting thing is like the word chemistry. It means like the art of Chem and that was what the Egyptians called their. Land, Kazaa Chem in Egyptian means black, so they called it the black land like the Fertile Nile soil, so chemistry is the art of Cam, so alchemy was a big part of Egyptian magic and Egyptian, well yeah, it was it was always part of of the medicine, whether it was metaphysical medicine, or what we would understand more of today as pharmaceutical medicine. alchemy create the part of what Alchemy does is create a number of different compounds, some of which are very anomalous and one of them is called the the medicine of metals and is. Or the universal medicine, and that that's supposedly capable of curing any disease. Certainly among the list of diseases that were understood in middle ages, it probably was able to cure quite a lot of what they suffered from, and that reminds me of A. Certified in a yoga teacher, right and Betas somehow influenced by. alchemy that Kinda trickled into India I don't know if that's historically the case, but there absolutely is a very strong tie between. Indian School of Alchemy and Western Hermetic. alchemy, and just overall I. See this comparison between all humane yoga in the sense that what modern day yoga is really just understood as Awesomeness, which is only one of the eight limbs of Yoga. There's so many things like Yama Yama Zain Yomas. There's looking within looking out and how you relate to the world meditation. Breathing officer. Breath. Diana devotion this I feel like awesomeness for alchemy is getting that gold from base metal like right that is like she. Like the flashy part like if I can do crazy head stand than it means there are. Transformed into like a higher human being, and that is almost like a proof that I've been through a school of Yoga. Right, but there's other stuff like there's so many other aspects that. Even. Come before. The postures themselves and Just departures themselves just survive because it's the physical aspect that modern culture is interested in, but of course, the whole philosophy of Yoga and studying the most purest way involves the well rounded studying, and that does end with some heat, the sense of union, the sense of union with the higher being in divine, and that just makes sense to me that this to things like reflect the other. Oh sure, and and there's a very ancient Thai that's demonstrable by the fact that. The the form of alchemy practiced in India of laboratory kind works on plants, the same exact method and way that the Acetate path in the West does on metals. It's almost the exact same procedure. And so there's there's definitely a spiritual in historical tie to Indian. Teachings of esotericism and spirituality as is with the western Alchemy. I. Mean You drop? You dropped a couple of. Things that got me really interesting like like deep buying. Maybe like some form of divine beings, bringing them out in the. Tool to communicate with this beings. What is it in the modern setting? What does that mean? A lot of modern alchemists tend to wax very union. They tend to look at the nature and the divine mind, if you will as a as a collective unconscious, and they look at the various. archetypes in Alchemy as like the archetypes that young does in the in the collective unconscious, the see the the higher genius. Is that Transcendent Boundless Self? That that you can. You can realize within yourself after a great deal of of Spiritual Union style therapy. You know, so it's. The Most modern I would say you know spiritual. kind of think is they tend to wax a bit union and their views about about these different beings. Arise from consciousness, not necessarily just our own individual consciousness. Some are more. In their view that the universe itself is a giant collective consciousness, so divine mind more of the young men, understanding right that it goes beyond the individual self into this Grand Gregori from which we all are in Karnataka and as individuals that we see in that the divine part of ourself lives immortal in that in that collection of the and that. We can not only be in contact with it and do regularly achieve that in Al Chemical, work, but actually become the get to the point where we resolve our lower consciousness and lower sub-conscious to the point where we start to express and become almost like. Living vessels of that divine part of our soul, and that that would be how a hermetic alchemist might define enlightenment right is is where the have. Resort the dysfunction that separates our our normal waking. Consciousness from that divine part is resolved at a very root level, deepen our unconscious mind, and then the the unify, and and now you're walking around as A. Essentially. Is that divine part of you living in this flash body? Now now I have a question like kind of on the same subject, which is like like modern alchemists. What does that mean like? What are you doing? Can you describe like like? I don't know what you call it like a session or By Day in the life of an alchemist, like as a practicing one like just in more practical objective terms. Like what does that mean right? So so the way I was taught from my mentor is I was I taught? A lot of the principles of alchemy in an inner meditative way, which is highly union almost like. A dream like experience where you you relax yourself, bring you into a deep state of trance and. Move Through A. dreamlike environment, following certain basic principles of Alchemy to resolve your. Active imagine yes, very much. You active imagine very similar to that and. And so that's that would be something that a practicing alchemist, really working in the inner side of it would do several times a week. And then, but the sessions that deal with the laboratory as you have your lab setup. which you try to make you know some some of the more serious kinds will have an actual permanent workshop in their home or garage I tend to work out of my kitchen. And I have a section of my kitchen. That I'll setup things my my my heater and my. My Flask Peter my my flash distillation train, and I worked very hard to make it something I can take down and setup quickly so that visitors don't think I'm running a meth lab. Through the window, that's the first thing they'd probably think right. I remember watching breaking bad and seeing. That time. He was all excited about a five liter flask. Heart is to get these and I'm like yeah. And I started to seal. Yes, there's there's unfortunately. Some similarities between synthetic drug makers in. The picture up to Jay at one point. He was like what the fuck not. Outcome yes. It's hard to explain you know so you try not to bother trying to. Be like. Yeah, whatever whatever dude. Spirituality! But yeah, so so. There's there's still secrecy that's needed just maybe for different reasons, you might not be burned at the stake literally anymore, but you're certainly going to to run into trouble legally if you're not careful but. You know just from from suspicion of doing something wrong, but the point is you set up the distillation apparatus and you follow procedures that have been laid down for centuries. Where they tell you, kate now you're going to take this. Solution you can take this led for instance melted down until it starts to form its oxide. You do that outside because it's toxic, and then you collect that oxide, and then you dissolve it in this vinegar, and and of course the old instructions are using this very symbolic language that you need a teacher to help you decode. And then, and then, if you decode the very crazy language, used to describe L. chemical compounds back then then it's a very clear step by step recipe. The thing is though you're doing this mind fully. You're mindful of your goal. You're mindful of the implication of what you're doing, and then so these simple. Chemistry lab type step start to have a deep degree of meaning Yoga and itself. Yeah and And so it's. You know and so once you got for instance. This dissolved lead oxide in this vinegar. You, you're able to distill it down into what's called the Green Lion because oftentimes. Depending on the or you started with, it could look very green. But also refers to the fact that it's unripe. It's not fully ripe which you'd then go through a various number of processes purifying this substance, separating it out into various, fumes compounds, and then purifying them separately and recombining them together very much like. A symbolic act of taking the various dysfunctions in your head, analyzing them to why they're a problem while you're in conflict with yourself, purifying your motives and reintegrating all of the good and the bad back into you to reach. An, integrated functional self psychoanalysis. So. It's very much and very obviously while you're doing it a symbolic metaphorical act of what you're trying to do internally. But when you do that, separation, purification and recombination of these different elements and principles. Then you get various solutions or various solvents that can then do really strange things like like. Like you could poured on your hand and it wouldn't burn your skin, but you could drop golden it and like Aqua. regio would dissolve it very bizarre anomalous things that most chemists wouldn't agree could even happen. and. So there definitely is compounds that in alchemy. Your called philosophic, so they philosophic mercury, and that's a solution that does something that. Normal Chemistry would not explain. The average chemist wouldn't be able to replicate. Right and if you're creating these substances through the L., chemical processes, it's because at first I was thinking like okay. Maybe this is just like Brian mentioned that ceremonial magical of times is more of a practice distance. Something that has an end results like. Lehman might think Oh, you you cast a spell, and you get something from it like physically lower form of. But. Then, he. Described another version of it, which is like it could be like playing music where it's like a practice or like or yoga or something, so but from what you're saying like so so there's a version at least version of alchemy where you're. Not Creating what you're extracting. Somehow you're. You're listening these substances that are able to do certain things right right or like I like what are some other some other things that these substances? are able to do the I feel like what you're asking is kind of like. What's the end goal like yeah? There One Our little benefits along the way little goals there is the larger goal of the knowledge and conversation of the higher genius, and then there are goals beyond that believe it or not. But the. The real search for what you're trying to do is achieve wisdom and understanding that's. How you know Solomon referred to wisdom, and understanding is more important than gold and rubies, and all the precious things you could imagine from the Bible. From A. Listener. Well yeah remember. Modern alchemy comes from a Judeo Christian Islamic origin so. Yes there's there's definitely references all throughout chemical texts to those scriptures. Depending on on the particular bent of the alchemist, in fact, the Acetate Path, which is the one I follow originated from a woman who is a Jewish in two hundred BC, Maria profit, Tassos or The referred to in classical tech says Moore Mary the Jewess okay. Yeah but And so there's there's definitely is a a relationship there between like people of the book, so to speak to western Alchemy, although the more ancient forms of it like that come from. A rise in the era of the emerald tablet are definitely. GRECO EGYPTIAN PAGAN in origin. So but generally alchemists tend to be universalist, tend to see all religions as pointing to the one thing, just different metaphors for the same. Deeply unknowable concepts least consciously unknowable, and that's the key is to make the things that are so transcendently beyond normal consciousness to understand to become clear and plain kind of like when Bryant here is described. Taking an entheogen and suddenly all the universe is clear you know, and and that kind of thing can happen from ingesting certain types of out chemical products they can act like an entheogen on your psychology and your your body. Do you guys know the term thea Jen yeah, most people call it psychedelics. Yeah for the for the listener. Does entheogen consumption always? Component in an alchemist communication with a being from a different sphere. No, in fact, it's people that are pretty serious about alchemy understand how easily it is poison oneself. And, so generally don't. Involve themselves ingesting their products unless they really understand what they have in front of them. And, they're taking a pretty big risk. But now I did go through experience that was deeply intense where I had reached an chemical sort of reaction from a hermetic chemical meditation, performing this active imagination that that forced a change in my biochemistry to to a degree, or at least a somatic one and. Caused me to believe that I was really dying. Because the concept of death separation, putrefaction, and being reborn, a very big concept, and now means so that can come about in ways where your body and your mind become convinced that you're about to die. Ego Right Right. And and I started to have symptoms of a heart attack and I went I was taken by an ambulance into. The emergency room they did the whole stress tests all the different things. They said there's nothing wrong with your heart. Everything's working properly. And so, but the process I went through a death experience and was reborn. Spiritual metaphorical sense and From a medical point of view was the cause Oh. I don't know that they had any because they didn't tell me what they they they did. Hand me some. What do you call it? ibuprofen. Over. Similar pros or something it was something for a really powerful and Addison. Gas. Sitting there like certain I was going to die. You know into the point where I called an ambulance context when you had that healing of dying, it was a shadow integration experience. What does that mean well? There's certain elements of the inner process because the Inter process of alchemy. Even more secretive than the laboratory process, and not many people teach it. Yeah, one thing. He did a really mention. Is that like for instance? My training I went through all the inner work and. Just kind of braised the service of the lab work, but kind of like my teaching was that everything is demonstrate within the inner work like you don't need to do the kind of the outer work. The lab work kind of demonstrates the concept of the inner right, because often your subconscious, you. Might you like Saint Paul? Used to say I believe helped. They'll mine unbeliev what he's talking about. Concepts seen a lot in alchemy. Were consciously you can? Agree with the concept intellectually, but your own subconscious is back. They're going. NOPE, it's all S and so when you're demonstrate something in the laboratory. There's there's almost like a tangible click that happens in the back of your head where you're unconscious is like okay I, I agree with that now, and then suddenly all of these. Things these these spiritual gifts, just kind of become unlocked inside of you because now you're unconscious is not disagreeing with your process anymore in you know fighting against yourself. That's familiar. It's definitely happening to some people myself included. But what is the shadow being? The shadow is the part of the young in San. So Yeah, the Shatt like this sort of forty in. Unconscious mind the shadow is rarely referred to the though being the unconscious or in the Kabbalah called. The Fash is often considered in alliance with the shadow with, or what would be called in Hebrew than Akash which is the serpent. If you look at the Adam and Eve. Portrait. Man Woman and serpent, and between a kind of is a really good illustration of Kabul, Listrik Psychology, right, and the notion that the the devil serpent convinced eve to be a bad girl. I is metaphorical to how the mind of human the the serpent or the shadow in the person. Influences, the unconscious the eve within us, which then forces the atom, the conscious mind to behave a different way older shawcross to have shadows and Yogi. Yeah like if it's if it's like A. Shocker I think fear or I might be wrong. Is the shadow appear? Yeah, fear comes from the shadow, absolutely that the shadow is the repository of all the things that we reject throughout life and. Yourselves yeah, and it's not necessarily intellectually shadow. There's a as above so below concept, but the idea. Is that part of us that? Keeps in itself all the things that since we were an infant. We reject stuff that happen to us that we don't aren't even aware of. that. We aren't even aware that we reject it out of hand. All of that goes into the shadow and becomes this influence for dysfunctional behavior through the ED, and so there's often a focus on it or the defense or the unconscious mind because it's very much. Influenced more heavily by the the shadow, then the conscious mind. But the truth is, that's a different thing. In the end. The alchemist of the Union wishes to come. You'll merge the conscious and the unconscious mind and the the philosopher's stone, which is what you're trying to make in laboratory alchemy. Is a substance that is purported do that. Its purported to both be able to turn a base metal into gold, and then if you ingest it after proving, it's the philosopher's stone by doing that, then you ingest it and it creates this. Cascade effect throughout your entire consciousness that in all your your your body and nervous energy, every level of your of your physical and spiritual self that causes a massive reintegration in almost instantly and the effect on your body, and your mind is both terrifying. As it's reported to be I haven't done this, but it's reported to be both terrifying, deeply spiritual illuminating, and if done without proper preparation can kill you yeah well. I was GONNA ask the cons of the philosopher's stone. Actually because because that's the other thing that I know just hearing the word alchemy I know, and this is my Lehman. Knowledge of it is is that. It's this object or substance. That is like the key that. Unlocked whether it's the end goal of Alchemy is to obtain it or it's or it's the. Key, that unlocks it unlocks the the the process to another level. What you need to actually turn metals into gold, but now now is. Is this something that that you you said You haven't founded or interacted with the yet, but I've been finished the process. Yeah, but this is something that people seek out. It's just like a figurative. Potter. was. Just like a mythic thing that no one is able to obtain. Something, you think is tangible. Well it's both when you get a proof. If you do the inner work deeply and properly with right guidance, you reach a point where you're able to prove, and this is a very magical miraculous experience. And you have many of them. In that process where you prove that the outer reality and your inner reality are not different, you actually are able to prove that. Despite all of the evidence of physical sciences, your own mind can change out a reality right in front of your eyes and that level of awareness and change in thinking and consciousness. Is An extremely moving and powerful experience and. That shows you that a lot of the myths that we hold as mere imaginary stories like fairy tales made up by Disney many of them have a literal and very real. Aspect to our conscious history, the history of our consciousness, and so and things that result and stuff you can hold in your hand physically so that most people who practice alchemy today are one hundred per cent convinced that the philosopher's stone is simply a metaphor, and it's not a real object of very substantial minority of laboratory out. Chemists are convinced it's a very real object. It doesn't take any spiritual work to get. Any group of monkeys can be trained to make it. And then there's the smallest sliver of modern. West's working today are the ones that see them. Both are true. It is a both a very spiritual metaphysical thing and a physical thing and they've experienced. Things in the practice of Hermetic alchemy that demonstrate that those two things aren't. Separate that the inner and the outer are one as much as that makes me happy to know that. Philosopher still and. Is maybe achievable like were considered so or like what is in your mind can also translate directly power of your mind into what's at your hands? I to makes me curious as the. Very like outsider, question of wide doesn't the person who possesses such knowledge becomes. President of the United States or the next Bill Gates, or do they or don't nee you you when you encounter. I can only say this from the limited degree. That I've experienced that. I'm definitely not when Bryant invited me over here, he said well. Can we introduce you as a master alchemist? Work. That's a very specific term for someone who has made the philosopher's stone. And I have not and so I can only speak from the limited products that have made so far and have worked with in my experiences in the inner work, thus far and just quickly interrupt you. How many people have made? Was the first stone. How many masters are out there living right now? I can only. Confirm, maybe two or three. But there's probably a great deal more. The thing is that you know to? The point I was trying to say is that? When you encounter even in a limited degree, the secrets of nature you become completely aware in a wordless way how important it is to maintain those secrets as secrets. Because the fact is you learn very directly, and in a very provable way that most people need to be ignorant of those secrets to continue to fulfill their process to go through the lessons of life, there intended to learn in a given incarnation right, it's it's. It's like plans to build like a nuclear missile or something like you know I. Dangerous in the wrong hands correct, let's not teach a five year old how to fire a bazooka right now. Just even the part of your brain sometimes is like part of my brain handled his knowledge like when I. That's when I took a lot of mushrooms a year ago. I've traveled to dimensions for extended period of time like compared children. More previous trips were very intense, but I've traveled. To exhaustion to the point of complete exhaustion over and over endless exhaustion to places of higher beings, you know that employed of humanity because there and the different plane of existence who? And blow up universes momentarily as and so I spent so much time with them that I found myself crying in the bathroom floor, and saying a human should have not gone to that place. No human should have come close to that because I just didn't I didn't want to get an I. Ready for it I did a wish it up on anybody including myself, and and so it regards the philosopher's stone so you so you can confirm to people. That have achieved this this level. These are these are individuals that performed a demonstration of a transmutation of base metal into a higher one in front of a crowd of people. I was going to ask you I like. How do you know like what why wouldn't these if this is such a powerful thing and it's so hard to achieve those people then keep it secret, or would they ever tell anybody that they're able to do it? What would their own students? Yeah? I guess what would motivate someone a aside from just like street, credit or something like what would motivate you to demonstrate that you were able to do that? Rather than just keep it within at that point. Again. It's like part of the experience of being able to do that comes with. A wordless understanding of why it's so important not to go around. Showing off. Dot. Court SORTA thing now. There are people in the Middle Ages who had Eureka moments, which may have not been completely tied to spiritual revelation and they win about. These are more. Apocryphal accounts who knows if they're true or not? I'm the ones I'm referring to happen in modern times, but in the Middle Ages there were there are accounts of people who sent proofs of their ability to transmute base metals into gold to. To various nobles, and were then imprisoned into towers where they were forced to sit there and make gold for their board. not allowed to leave or or so you're basically trapped, so there's also a practical aspect of a sense of very real social danger in demonstrating that you can do something like that and regularly right if I if I couldn't leave mine. Is going to take me and make me. Their subject kind of general like like a story point for Hollywood data shows, but I mean there's we're sitting here, talking theoretically about a concept that if you re the reality of would be extremely insane if you had a guy named like at Bill Gates or Elon Musk's level, doing making gold out a lead and telling everybody in running their business or their charity off of it. It would crash the markets and believe me. That guy wouldn't last another week before he was taken out, so does this knowledge of Idol WanNa go to this extent of rising in the human hierarchy and the societal. Does knowledge come at the same time accompany. Disorder. Like this reveal bright of I'm now know the secrets of the universe and I also realized now that I should not use them for my own profit. Well I, mean there. There is a general rule a kind of credo among those who practice medic alchemy. strongly. or that. To. Be Secret in your success and to be prudent in your use and you know. Of The stone that they didn't believe there was anything wrong with making a profit off of the gold. You made if you used it to sustain a modest livelihood for yourself. And your family, so that you could be free of the limitation of Labor to work on spiritual thing, it's just I would a went from life I wanna make enough auburn right enough scripts to. Comfortable leaving. On an island. It's almost like what people W-. The dream of an artist which is like. The modest dream of an a humble artist which is I, just want to create my thing, and just enough to sustain myself and live comfortably. A side job right, but there's also the fact that one's own higher genius. This is a concept in the work. Can oftentimes through allow certain flaws to misunderstandings to exist in your work so that you did it prevents you from actually achieving the grand success at the end. At least until the very end of your life or in the next, because there may be still more for you to learn from Basic Labor because his journey, not destination right exactly, that's exactly was about to say. There's A. Zen. It's like what do you do before enlightenment? Fetch water and Chop Wood Yeah. Do you do after in line? Fetch water and chop wood, and there's there's a wonderful story that comes out of the Kabbalah to about the different rabbis, each achieve division of the throne of God, and in the process, each of them reacted in a very different way one of them, Deci his heart, so longed for the the divine source of his soul. Soul he just completely absorbed into God and then there was another who who came back, and the revelation taught him that there was a lot wrong with human rules, and so he went around teaching heresy, and then there was there was a third one came back in, and the shattered his mind so much she just went insane. The one person who managed to handle the experience productively. Came out of the state and went right back to to farming. And, my God that's such a cool story because it makes me also think of my personal experience of like like the next level of for me of even. Understanding like so the mushroom trip. That's like very the GENYK. It's like. I also realized that I am human, and my job is to live in the human world, and be with other humans and data what I want to do. That's what I was. Put on this earth to do and I want to be good at that like run after spending time being in the different dimension, it's a more committed to being a human than I've ever felt before in the weird. Not Not knowing you well enough to speak on your personal spiritual situation, I would posit that what you went through is not uncommon. There's there's a there are facts of the experience where if you breach too far from where your own higher genius wants you to go at the moment, then the shadow is allowed and permitted even invoked by the higher genius to rise up and terrify you to keep you from going someplace that would be. To keep you from going somewhere. That was be unproductive. Threshold it's often no. I have crossed the threshold and then yeah. I think it was pushing me that literally. Just saying you've seen too much and Jay's making a face right now and next to me like. He thinks like he thinks like what am I. Even talking about because he thinks he's seen it all, but like to me like my personal experience was in that. Like, you, saying I love this concept of one's own higher genius. Would you controls the human and me almost? And very much experience recruits shadow. To keep me sane in my humanity, there's the one of the very earliest revelations in hermetic. alchemy is the fact that? That every part of you both the dark and the light is there for a reason a very good spiritual reason, even when it is, it can serve to lead you into bad behavior. All of that teaches you something that ultimately increases your wisdom and understanding, which is the ultimate purpose of life to an alchemist. Yeah, just like having a cup of tea after that experience was like one of the most comforting doesn't begin to describe it experiences, you know. I just move deep experiences because you're like hockey back on earth I've seen it all and. Enjoy it so much, right? And what a powerful! REALLY REVELATIONS YEAH! You're wasting your time here every one of the. Things that are hermetic alchemy teaches is that everything has? There's no wasted phenomenon everything. Means and matter something. Eating breakfast to to just. Working in menial labor tasks to two more. Wonderful things all all of has point. I would argue the spending too much time on facebook doesn't fall into that category. I would argue facebook in all its for all. It's a good and bad exists. For reason you know even even for the lessons that teaches us and self discipline. This was part one of our discussion about Modern Day alchemy. Next week. We'll talk about demonic vacation. Water they, how do they work and water the real life? Experiences that freighter ICL and Bryant Walker can tell us about hope you can join us. Thank you Jay Hunter for Co hosting with me? Thank you. Elizabeth sold for artwork. Thank you, Andrew, heyward for your music and thank you for listening.

Bryant Walker Union Jay Hunter officer Indian School of Alchemy United States Greece Bill Gates facebook Fraud Bri Walker. Sasha India Carl young Al Chemical Spiritual Union Solomon engineer Marine Corps Freud
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How 2 Wholesalers Joined Forces to Revolutionize Wholesaling Using Lessons from Rocket Fuel

"Hey everybody. Thank you for joining us for today's episode of Real, estate disrupters that we've got evil dragon off and Jesse Perot Batch even more players in the Phoenix market and the here to share how they join forces as two separate wholesalers and using rocket fuel able to basically revolutionize the industry. This is your first time tuning in I'm Steve Trang founder of fast homes APP THE ONLY MLS for off market wholesale properties, and I'm a mission to create one hundred million years I've had many of you. So many of you guys reach ourselves training for a lot of yourselves training program was cost prohibitive. So us for those of you guys that are tight on your budget I created something special for all you guys have you guys want to check it out please text closer to three three, seven, seven, seven, C L O S E R three, three, seven, seven, seven to find out more about that. And you guys get value out of the show today. Please tagger from below share this episode hit the like button whatever we can do to help us expand our reach and help more people. Get ready it's awesome. Do it. All right so both he has been on the show before but you know I don't know everyone's gone through and watch all the episodes I. Just kind of really quick highlight how we all connected. So you want. Share how we all connected through you know through me through a friend of ours. Oh. Through Brennan. Simmons. I thought you were talking about wholesaling elites. That was when we all kind of bonded together. Dasa got really strengthen the relationship for sure. I I met all U2. At the go giver. So I think probably I know we talked about it before but just real quick everyone to know how we all initially connected. Yeah. That's actually how I met Yvo was through that too. So Brandon Simmons huge shoutout to you buddy. But he kind of started connecting all some of the players are the up and coming players and and wholesale and got us together and there's no pitching. It was just truly helping each other and it was just a unique time and I think all of us at that same time we're looking for. Something, and we all brought something to each other. It was just a special type of masterminded at that time for us. It was amazing. It created a lot of friendships with. Me You Yvo Anne Pace Brandt Jamile I think jared and Danielle will come to some on and on and on college, and south comes some of them so on and so forth, Rafael I I can't think of everybody by a ton of people to where it really just created this I mean brandon just knows how to connect people. Hey, you could help this person. You could help this person and we all just kind of were really getting our. training wheels off of our wholesale operations, and we all really push each other up to get to different levels. So at that time you wholesaling, you know your operation going in you guys were doing a lot of direct mail and your where I learned about stacking by leaps back in like you know you're talking about how he annual sending mailers and What is talking about what the Hell is stacking and obviously that became a product but I remember you know I at chase you down because Brent was like you've got to hang out with Yvo because the guy's a machine or robot, I can't say robot. Right and he said go chases guy down because ever tool you need. Does, the guy and that's when you know I'd I learned also about the Was it the litigator scrubbed Doesn't longtime ago. Yeah. Litigated Scrub and you know and I I can't hang out your office and like on there. You're like I was telling you about how I need a bars like Oh. Let me send you mind and like. Five minutes later, just email virus. It was crazy, right? So So we all met through Brandon's they'll give her meet up and then what did you guys do? So we can ask for the way that we connect as brand actually called me he's like Hey I think you. Can Help Jesse in some regards at he can help you with regard what you call them for lunch or coffee. So I called them. And we met were. zips. Thomas Indian school at the right place hang. And like what are you help it? He's like well, what do you need help like? Well, I don't know brandon kind of that. You may need some help. So that's why we're doing this. So I was basically trying to help and they just Kinda of it to be honest Yeah. Struck a good relationship and The rest is Here today, but he has with the service I write. You came there to help you and I thought you wanted she just reached out and said, Hey, can we meet and like shirt? and then I, quickly identified. Some of the stuff he was good at, he could help me with and then I can help him with some of the stuff that they were struggling with and it was very it was blatantly like. I hate systems and processes. That's his jam. He struggles managing people and inspiring people and doing some of those things that's where I could really help you know comp plans and all these different ways to keep people motivated. And I quickly understood that you know we could help each other and we there was no plan of doing anything together is just like is like this is really great and I really think I could help him and I, think he could really help me yeah and I think also like brain also you had talked about Google Forms right? He's like, okay. Go Talk to Steve and you in my office in your wildly pimped out vfw. Right and we went for a spin like we worked on Google for US I been and afterwards I. Hey, you know he's just hang your license and my brokerage. Yeah and was like that afternoon young license the broker. So I think brandon was really instrumental right doing. mean he he he's. The guy that started the whole thing. For us. So before you guys teamed up, I want the listeners to hear You know maybe you can start shirt. What was your what your business like because you already had success right? What are you business look like and what were you building to before you guys teamed up so I mean, even before my wholesale business that I used to be in the fixed flip and I was fixing it flipping time, we always wholesaling started wholesaling thousand fifteen inch. And I mean things were looking good. I just didn't know that was my my goal at the time was to just wholesale company. That was the ultimate goal and that's where I met Brandon 'em and I think Andrew Lebron actually got me the in the group through Brandon Connection and got the group met a lot of successful people more successful than mealtime and started learning a lot started digging deeper into lot of different things. That's where I'm at AS Roma Jesse but again, our wholesale operation was. You know at the time May. Maybe four or five or actually three or four acquisitions. We had elite, Majer successful operation Obviously, it was but I was we're looking to grow with and he said we were always struggling cycling three employees, those types of things, and that's where you know some of his strengths lie and you're going through employees but I also remember like, yes. Creating tools and systems I mean I remember like any gave me a tour of your on boarding. This is not your normal on boarding like it was like is joining a franchise. They're very. We now very systematized to where. That's actually more any strength. So I, DO WANNA shout out anti. We do have a third partner which is Yvo sister and she is another huge huge reason for our success. But when it comes to that's more, her is definitely Boardings, the the systems, the protocols, the processes putting it together that is. Definitely, any because when we started all the badge products We did not have any because she was focusing on the wholesale operation jumping ahead a little bit. But yeah I mean, even have shit basically missed some strike since she possesses. And that's why I think some of the you know a lot of the things that we do together now really weren't so welcoming. He's got strength that I don vice versa and same with Anne right? So you had your really good technical side. So what tools you had the litigator scrub, which when you're talking about is like, what do you mean you can you can pull this of all the people that do. So you have the litigators car what other tools that you have did you create at that time before you guys partnered up? We had some older ones. The mentioned by. texting platforms. The two thousand seventeen is when I started doing like texting platforms and US really basic and I was trying to automate like scrapers and bots and stuff like that. I remember that. Yes. Yep. heels. I like ringcentral. The first one that I actually like basically clear the board. So it can send thousands of masters in ringcentral. Those accounts got shut down the said look at other avenues and then I kinda. Found another platform before even partnered with, we even knew Jesse. It was a Texan platform and it just took like three or four months get running. That's when they basically I think met you and it's like Whoa. You know we can send text messages and all of these things, and that's how I was able to help him a little bit in the beginning and that's like a lot of the things you know he'd come to our office I go to his office and just kind of help. Each other on some of the operational stuff. So you're shrinks were definitely on the technical side Yes and your challenges where people correct, and then you will lose your business like when you guys before you guys partnered up. So I think it was something similar. I want to say three to four acquisition wraps and then disposition manager I. Don't Think Discipline I. Think you guys did that correct I think you get rid of him. Oh Forgot about that but I didn't have a Leeds manager because ours was a little bit different. They would generate a lot more leads rather sources. obviously because I don't have the skill set that he has to create that type of stuff. So you know I haven't my acquisition managers did a blend of you know they were setting out or is sending the text for them they respond to them, and then also you know doing some cold calling themselves. So they got a bigger piece of the Pie than their reps because they weren't self generating but they were still having to you know process and kind of be lead managers and acquisition reps, and I just did a little bit differently. But I think we had similar size operations to time. You had people been with you for a very long time. And that was. were. You guys had the biggest challenge yeah, right. So but you're systems. Or did there okay they would suffice. Yeah and then he started helping me I mean I did my best You know y when he started wholesale Operation Company, you have to even do the stuff that are your weaknesses. If you don't have that position filled I, did my best like I built out a podium to a decent amount. I would dig and I was you know I would say I'm one of the first adopters. Of Text, messaging I was very much on the front side than before it was known her popular and same thing for the cold calling. So I was always digging and finding things but did I probably streamline it and systematize it to its full capacity? Absolutely not right. But you know I did my best is as everybody does have to do when they get started. Yeah and so before you guys part up so you had red. Rocket Fuel. I how I read it actually I just him. When I read I, read it on the airplane where I was going to rent the next two, thousand sixteen or I don't know you went to that. Yeah. Cool. Okay. So you read on the way there. And then you read it after you guys partnered up. Yeah I knew something was right. I. Didn't know how it was. All right that kind of explained it further. I probably like. I probably read it before we partner partnered on everything but we had already had You know our batch partnership and then we decided as we'll get to partnering on everything that we do together now. But it really made me identify like how? Right the relationship was like I felt it. I knew it I knew like I had different strengths. Strengths and so did Anne? But. It really explained it to me better than I could understand where they're coming from really helped me communicate with them better because I'm definitely the crazy one that wants to do anything and everything and all the ideas and it's my job, and then I realize it's my job to get to bring these ideas and have them say, no, no, no, no, no no and then one of them's going to be yes in doubt right so but the understanding that's what I'm supposed to do like I just thought I was being annoying and then I'm like oh That's actually my job. My job is to come up with all this crazy stuff and get a million knows to that one great idea that we could help make our business be that much better. Got It. So was there anything that you saw when you're reading rocket fuel or that you remember from rocket fuel when you guys are talking about potentially partnering up that you saw like this make sense? Yeah. It like you said that really just at least in my mind was segmenting a the job roles in each individual person that you know some of the. Strengths and weaknesses that each person could possess. Because at the time even I mean obviously, I was doing a lot of the stuff. You know even the managerial stuff and things like that. But I mean that I like doing some of it. Absolutely you know but I have to do it and it's just really. helped. Me compartmentalize a lot of the stuff that, hey, these are the things that I like doing and you know that spreadsheet on you know the things that you like to do forget what he goes. You know things you'd like to do but are not good at thing and it just helped me identify some of those areas obviously partnering with him and Danny just helped me like focus on the stuff that. I enjoy doing that I'm good at. So what are some of the? We talk about compartmentalizing. was there anything else that you know when you guys were trying to figure out whether the partner or not? They said, okay like according to this book for this part right here like definitely do it or definitely we shouldn't like was there anything in there in that book that said it was like a bright lies like you should do this or just just kind of did it and it took us some time mean he actually reads people way better than I, doing this. So I didn't read me like a little before I read him to be honest I think you can explain that I just we we basically We're helping to like nine months before we even. Right. So it took a little bit of time to kind of. So we started. So initially, what happened we had our wholesale operations then we start a batch skip tracer. So basically what happened was I lost my teela account. and. I was freaking out at that time back. Then we were only calling on like I need help in like it was just it was fate. It was timing whatever you WANNA call it. He's like, Hey, I just got this new data source. The skit tracing is really good. You know and he's like I'll take care of you I'm like he's like I'll give it to cost. That's that's Yvo. Wide and he's like I gotcha. Okay. Whatever thanks I'M GONNA wear. and then I tested it in my guys were happy like Yo. This is basically is good as what we were using and. That's when till I was shutting down a lot of council of people are looking for data sources that kids skipping bulk because back then he can do that right and I was like, Hey, you know. I have some friends that may be interested. And I'm not like like, what do I get And he goes half done. So quickly, I had people try it and they're like, this is awesome. This is awesome and then and then like. quickly, we didn't make much too much dating time during that we're like, let's do this. Let's get it set up. We got started working on a website start getting it out there and bom like okay. Now we have batch tracing. It was basically our side hustle at that time top the wholesaling operation, and then that kept growing to where we had to. Basically, we're just going to each other's offices. It was affecting our wholesale business we had to deals we were fighting over you know that we ended up just figuring out a way to make it work together, and I'm just like, why are we spending separate marketing dollars and I was pushing him way harder than he was pushing me like I knew it was right like I already have that feeling I saw the strengths and weaknesses. But Man I'd say to him and he'd he'd blow me off like a shitty tender and he's like you know now we'll talk about it later later like he wasn't ready yet I knew and then I was just like I'm going to give him his time. We'll get there when we get there, it was just really hard having these two separate wholesale operations and we're both doing all these things the same way with marketing and all this different stuff to where I'm. Like this is inevitable as what was in my head on my budget's do it sooner than later was whereas out with it so apparently, I'm the tour for like. Kupuna on partnerships. So get a lot instagram messages. It was like, Hey. I know you hate partnerships but and then they'll go. Explain why they want to be a partnership and you know I always say like I'm a hypocrite Iraq aren't. But I'm like multiple partnerships, right? Yeah. So what? Advice or what things are you looking at when you guys trying to figure out whether you wanted to partner up with some of the key things you guys are looking at let me take on. Sure this is something. So I I went through a partnership that didn't work. So I did not want partners so like I was that newly person that's like I'm never getting married again and then along comes this beauty. And It just. It was it was tough I was very clear once we started talking about the thing I. Think we didn't do right in the last partnership was starting at tree other partnerships within that partnership. So if we were to partner is like if we do this together, we do everything together because then you you can't start having these other side hustles to deter you if it's making us all money I'm all for it if you're trying. To Go, do some other side hustle and we're partners. Now, my technically kind of working for you like that's how I look at. So I'm like if it's it's all there is nothing you know obviously, we could have just kept the basket tracing separate. But if if wholesalers combined like I'm like if we're lending hard money if we're doing this, if we're doing that, it's altogether, it's not and I was stupid you're clear that Yeah Yeah And that's just how I see where team together And I saw me building my future with them and I saw the I want to do something without them even if it was like my little hustle that I put together. I want them to get paid on it. They're my partners if I'm alleviating time from these other businesses to work on this, they still should get compensated. That's just how I see it. And I'm no nonsense when it comes to that like it just it has to be that way and that's how I. Feel some other people it works the other way. But I think for the newer listeners or the newbies. My best advice for you is, if you do partner read rocket fuel, because most wholesalers are visionary entrepreneurs and that you have this dream to create your financial freedom, you have this dream of building. This amazing thing you have all these dreams like that. That is typically a visionary if if you and your Buddy WanNa to start doing it together, that's fine split. Some marketing costs you some things. But if you guys partner and you both have the same personality, it's not GonNa work. Like your question if you're a visionary should back. So do you like crm's and systems and processes if they're like no I like I want to build this great thing like we shouldn't be partners know exactly you could collaborate and do stuff together and do bargaining to get yourself going and squad up but. You're going to put someone. One of those visionaries is going to get put in a role that they hate and they're gonNA resent you and do time and eventually it's GonNa fail one of the best bits of advice I heard was from Brent Brian Daniels, and he said basically there's just no reason to partner without dating a little while I write like hundred percent you know you're talking about to. You know they could be visionaries and the only way to find out whether it's GonNa work or not is to work together collaborating squad up and then after six months. Okay. How this is going then maybe do a partnership because you can't have two visionaries if you have different skill sets and then hired an integrator to help with the other stuff. But before I came on this shoutout to brand He wanted me to mention something to cause like we're talking about rocket fuel and he's like tell all the new wholesalers your job is not to be the CEO or the visionary, which it's not when you first start your job is to learn every job role and get your ass to work and getting deals it is not your job. To be the CEO of a company, that's not there that's something you grow into and you start hiring as you can. But he's like made it very clear when you're getting started, you're the CEO of nothing you are the person that has every job Jabril and it's your job to find a deal. Brat. Love the vice I'm sure people will take that to heart for sure. Yeah. Every job. Has A box and your name was in every one of those bosses, correct. Yeah. anything you WANNA, add to that no I think you also like it on the head is just everything is said on like even the the marriage thing we did like I mean even not knowing about it to be honest. I didn't know we dated for nine months. You not just with a side hustle to to see how it worked correct because I again, I did a pretty bad things about partisan before I. I've never experienced it before never had a partner before besides my sister who have worked with you know. Good partner I don't know. She could be difficult. Any but yeah we worked with her since two thousand and eight nine maybe maybe even before that So you know I used to working with her as a family member, but then partner with somebody else was. Was He was very hesitant like for Real, I, felt it was getting ghosted like you're just brush it off like Eva Eva thing Oh. Yeah. Okay. We'll talk about you know just like it's like he almost doesn't hear me like stupid shit to him all the time and he he blatantly ignores like my stupendous. And that's what I kind of felt like was doing bring it up and he'd almost like he would address it or listen, but he wouldn't really respond. Yeah and I was just like what the heck is going. And this was it feels like to get rejected. So you guys part of So as a couple of years, how long has it been a little over two years full-ti- or fulltime partners have the little urine half but we've been partners for over two years on everything. All right. So let's just quickly lists seems a lot longer. and he says I says I need to be nicer quickly like all the different products you guys have. Starwood basket tracing bachelor tracing, and then Bachelor leads jacker which morphed into bachelor leads, which is are all in one tool to where you could less stack data management skip tracing than we add it as. least acting thing you're talking about, get those the original version of the actual self three just started off as you know, leads soccer than we have skip tracing than now have text messaging, and now we have listened. So it's basically like a all in one tool you get more products oil prospecting tool. Yeah. We we have more. So we have the RBM. So we have bad Corinne Lewis the best driven zone. Yeah. As I say go knock or go driven wherever you branding that right and then we have a dialer coming out at the end of the month so. So all these different products now. You've got three. You know three heads at the table. How do you guys manage all that? So, this is this is awesome. This is a shutout. it's it's about having an accountability chart. Top to bottom we have every single virtual assistant. We have every single person and we have an accountability chart. We do big quarterly meetings between the three of us and we adjust them every time we show them that speculation where everybody's roles at who reports to WHO and that is what has kept saying because if you're communicate with your team and everybody knowing what they're supposed to do it, it's amazing like. People, take their ownership people understand people are proud of their roles and We know where we're at and what we have to focus on and it gets tweaked and change in. That's why we a quarterly. But having the proper accountability chart is it's probably one of the biggest strengths that we've had on keeping our finger on the pulse on that if someone wants to learn more about Kinda ability charts, find it. I mean traction is the book that I learned about accountability. Charts and until gave US created lucid charts. Yeah, we have. So we haven't accountability for everyone of the company's. A different one for every company correct. Yeah and there is some overlay especially on the development side them some support sides a little bit of overlay with some of the individual people But we do and like you said, we go over every quarter and there just seems to be always we have to update it and change it then. We add New People and we have to put their names on in one of those boxes. and that's where you know I. think that's what has really allowed us to. Scale yeah. Really has allowed us to get away from some day day. We're still obviously doing some things that we shouldn't be. And I think it's just a of time before we. Scale more and we delegate more and more. And that the way we delegate is you know you have to have some of the leadership proper leadership were very, very lucky. We have the most amazing staff beyond. The best team we have. Great leadership in place in all of our key roles that they take ownership they understand like I consider them and owner of that part of the company where you get to make decisions obviously, you come to us for stuff and guidance, but they are to make decisions they're allowed to fail if they fail, we will work with them on how to make that better but the the culture and the team. Is, what, the three of us are are nothing without them. We really aren't. And that's been one of our other biggest parts just. Finding the right people all of us being align I, mean we have you know are. Both of our, we have our core values and our mission, our vision mission statement on our walls at our office like every single person that. Before you come into my office, go read these if you're not aligned you leave. Yeah. You know. So what are the score based? You WanNa. Talk about. Oh this is the puck with its come on guys. So I know is We have be customer obsessed is one of them. We also have something to do with like curiosity like be innovative. Always be curious always look try to improve yourself You. Senator I'm sure. Yeah. No our visions is mission statement that we spend two hours on that just. Working through a lot of the words and stuff like that and getting it right. You know. But you know we build products and services that impact people's lives and that's our missions mission statement basically. Yeah. So rocket fuel is really about two people. Yeah. He's three. Yes. How does that work? So. We got. We talked about it actually like a couple of hours ago. So he's he he he's the vision of the company. And then I'm more on the development side. That's where I handle. A lot of the stuff in an anti does the operations on a lot of the you know in in house employs especially in that's just how it works. So I somehow got blessed with two integrators that that actually have different skill sets luckiest guy ever because he was really taking control on the development side and then she was really the missing piece on the products and services side. To where she was focus on the wholesale, she didn't really help there. Once she came in I mean she hoped fix so much stuff because that was neither of our strength. So it's really strange to have three people that have such different skill sets that work. So well together it's it's strange. What does she fix? What was she in charge of or what issue judge now that she fixes a lot of the stuff that we like skip over like Brennan website, he'll look at it good I look at this. Maybe this can maybe just changes a little bit he goes through and there's a whole list of things that we have to call control club, and then also the operate it's like fully the operation. So building out the our trailer on. So every single person I get on boarded our company the first week every single person doesn't matter if your va getting hired for and support or if you're going to be our new CEO, you're learning and understanding The wholesale space and what our customer looks like an understanding, how to help them. Every single person has that week that was her. Then the next week each hour is broken into exactly what that's the type of stuff that she does. That's how rain that we get now to make sure that our operation is running tight and then all the other little things she handles the finance side she handles she oversees the managers and then I'm kind of on top of that but she's making sure. She's she's definitely the greater. Finance Operations Accounting She ends all of those things. That's what an integrator normally handles that type of stuff. So. We're talking about you know this or we want to take a lot of lessons about from from rocket fuel. So what is something like two or three big lessons that we discussed for everyone's listening here that hasn't read the book. It's understanding what you are you integrator or you visionary. So others seven chapters in their. Chapters one is it only seven? Yeah. It's a shorter book that I that I remember the first time. Yeah. Chapter One and two or just identifying what are you right what what type of person are you and then chapter three is like understanding the relationship between the two so I do we were so good at talks about Union Yang like Eggen hamming it right like me and him are definitely again and Yang. If if your partner looking to partner with somebody, they have to be the into young else if you have the same skill set, I, it just it doesn't work. You're going to be on top of each other right and you're going to be fighting for dominance So that's with chapter three is chapter four's accountability charts. That isn't that but. Yeah. So it does have accountability and that's something 'cause it's us which is. I think rocket fuel is apart the. Traction is just a different book hiding just goes deeper into a topic. And then it goes into having a paper here. And then Five is the five rolls. Six finding each other. So if you haven't found that person and then seven is like practices, what are the rules? I don't know thought my head. Okay. So say for anyone that's listening because like you mentioned earlier, right? Most of the people that are. Listening to this podcast, wholesalers tend to visionary. Yeah. because entrepreneurs. Tend to be you know the visionary type personality now that they necessarily are, but they tend to be craft and so I've been told many many years. Way Too long really that I'm allows a communicator and I was like, what are you talking about? What do you mean allows a communicator and then I read the book as like Wow I am guilty of all these right. Here all the things that are wrong. With visionaries, right. Like just very high level like look I want you to build this like how do you want to build? I don't care just get it done and then you bring it to me you bring it to me as like no, this sucks. See I'd only say that he no, he brings me something like I like I'm like Oh. Yeah it's Nice. But as my responsibility visionary right and so one of the things that really helped a lot with the book was. Helping me really understand my shortfalls. But instead of being a great leader improving the shortfalls, what I did was I took that book and I gave it to my Ryan person and say you should read this book because now you know how to better communicate with. Because now she With me to write like it's. Definitely. Like strengthens just from both sides. You can absolutely see like I mean it's black and white sometimes once you understand that you can actually start seeing patterns. Yeah. And then I think it also helps with some of your team members understanding what their strengths and weaknesses are too. Yeah. So it it definitely goes into to that as well. I think the hardest part when you get started is identifying like how hire the right person in the right position and what type of personality that person should be like those are a lot of things that people over luxury just trying to like get themselves out of something that they don't want to do very true and I think when I talk about partnerships because these hire someone just to fill that role versus making it's good fit. For everybody and just a quick side note going back to what what else things being a visionary. So we just got this new space, right we moved in. When we did the move on Friday, we are using Monday because a lot of emails. Good and so one of the. Again being visionary details is not my strength right? I can cast a vision. But the specific details are are are not my. Forte. And so on Friday after we move in Tech Summers Hey, we need to talk on Monday about the as. We just moved in. A problem with. Right. So talking about on Monday and she and we talk on Monday she said, hey did you know that the AC's included in the lease? Click really just like didn't you read the I signed it. But that's Kinda how visionaries are right. We're just moving fast. We have an idea and we go move forward. We don't necessarily stop and so check all the details. That's definitely Anne. I. Consider Eva More Behi-, broad between the two like the detail organization is like all say something. So like we have policies and procedures for using parts or services and he's going through those a. Fine tooth comb with our lawyers making sure everything's right all these different things with accounting like me and evil I get a p. and l., and we looked with a great and then yesterday I look at it. I'm like how much did Blah Blah Blah meg for what was this and like I won't even go look and she has sent it to me and I literally. Like, tell me because I refuse to go into my email, search it and find it myself like that's the type of stuff she has put up with and I appreciate her so much. But that's where she is definitely the detail oriented person because he likes he's going one hundred miles an hour on the other side he does do a lot of implementing to, but he does. Have some visionary traits on wanting to just get through something probably more quickly than a traditional integrator would and that's Max Mit. He's not a visionary design integrative he's both he's got he can do both and then just as another side as far as talking about contracts like I have my title company has their Title Company, right? So I open mind I and. and. And Djamil calls me. Is the Hey Steve that you review that document and it's like, yeah, skimmed it. He's like what about this this and this is like, yeah, what about it? He's like, don't you promise I don't know. If you. Look at everything. So as like Djamil there's one thing like I had him changing that was it He's like a I can hear him you know, hey, hunters even read it. But you know hunter but I will give an example you re either now Jamila Vision, they'd three partners as well. Yeah. But instead of him reading, right he called me because he's in. And so you go back to integrator hunter yeah and say, no like you I because hunter and just I. Actually read the contracts. Yeah. Point out the problems with it. Yeah. Anyway. So enough about me so Is there anything else that he has wanna talk about as far as the partnership I I I put here rebel revolutionized industry and I, and I firmly believe that so you know is there anything you guys want to talk about as far as the journey goes from when you guys partnered up the challenges he has had as far as. Organization. But now like moving forward. What are challenges you has seen or? Getting hate mail like what are you guys? Experience and getting heat. Be. IMOS are making it through. I mean I definitely do want to touch on on growing business, but I know this is primarily wholesale show. So I love to talk about stuff with wholesale I. Think Absolutely, we talk about building businesses because. No one gets in wholesale because they enjoy wholesaling. Y- crazy people out there I know a few people there are some but most people get wholesale because they want to create time freedom, financial freedom and so on. So I think business is critical to that. What do you want to? Talk. About business. Jeez I'll let you start. what our weaknesses when we got started. Off Weaknesses also on the biggest things that we talked about it a little bit earlier was just a lot of the accountability to charter the everything flows. So you know I used to be you know even You know even though a little bit to some extent in some areas but I used to be the the bottleneck, a lot of the stuff and all that other decisions have the best through me and I'm busy or you know God forbid. Myself was out of service or whatever happens like I am out for the kid. Having a kid. Yeah it was. it was challenging like, right Women, some of my son was born April our system crashed literally that day. So I mean unfortunately, I had to stepping a little bit more than I would've liked to the time but. I it's just now with our accountability tries to everybody. You know even on a speak more. So on the development side, but you know there's there's on the development side there. There's me that the kind of a lot of development citizens go through and then have you know Jason Lee which are my league developers both both sides, and then they have team leads underneath them, and then there's the rest of developers have been. So I really don't talk to you know a lot of the developers because. I thought to driven I. Mean I talked him every single day like every single day I talked to him and he just released a lot of information that comes from. You don't let the define to a lot of the details of come from a lot of developers they're seeing and he solving issues by himself and then anything that he can't overheating some. My input on he reaches out to me. So this has allowed us to really just free at my time. I mean the best month I think it's really the whole shift has happened over the past couple of months for us to be honest. and then we because we've hired some key job rose we we knew we needed to just didn't have the right people, the time and I. Think we those troubles are field filled up right now to where you know worse than having more and more and more out of the business almost every day. We can actually focus on growing in slowing in it. How many people are underneath you on the accountability chart. So I think you know this. We have over eighty people that work I. Now I did not know that. You guys had high overhead. So you're probably about forty there's about forty people. Yeah. Wow Forty Noah forty three. Forty. Three roughly roughly forty three people. It's a lot. So you know we have a lot of people virtual, but they're not necessarily virtual assistance like we just hired finally got an HR that was. Like we're going to this horrible cycle of we didn't play. We don't have time to hire on, but we need the HR, but we need to hire this employee now. So we don't have time to hire the HR I'm just like pulling the hair. I don't have anymore out and I'm just like so so frustrating and finally were just like we're gonNA find hr like this is you know it's being penny smart dollar stupid is basically what we're doing to ourselves and found an amazing superstar and that's that's the thing that I could device I. WanNa give to people even growing their wholesaler real estate investing operations. Is Hiring someone and hiring the right someone are so different. And it's worth waiting in. It's worth letting someone go and having the dive back in that job role until you find that person because that's how you can start scaling and getting out of Your Business. Do our team is the only reason why we're successful like we have. The best team top to bottom out anybody I believe in in streets where our culture's great everybody aligned with vision and they're just great people like we I saw this quote about month ago Gosh what it say it was like You know. Higher for character, then train for talent something along those lines and I've been living by that like I want to hire the right person. I will train them how to be a great team member. But the right people with how you align and how you think I've I've learned I've always believed it but more and more I've really believed that. Hiring that. Makes your operation that much stronger because everybody that works together. Has the same type of character, and if you all have similar characters, you'll have the same vision. If you all the same vision you're working together towards something. and. That's I. Think our biggest game changer to be honest with you is. We're lucky man we got great people. So. When did you hire this? Hr Person. Like a month ago a month ago. So? I. I did a lot of the hiring and I'm pretty good reading. People were both poker players we both pride ourselves on. Understanding how to read people? We've done a lot of it and I think as well. Superpowers or probably my greatest is is getting a vibe and seeing if in asking certain questions to to see if there are fit and you know I was able to to do that but I didn't have time and it's not my job to hire like it's her job sift everything then it goes to the manager or the CEO of the company to that. Her good fit, and then I still I don't talk to anything about business. I. Just sit down with them for ten minutes once they like hey, we want to hire them and I just asked him like weird personal questions to get fives and energy and and see if right and if I have like a feeling that I'm like I think they're faking it or they're not right I'll just back now and they won't even ask a question they're like okay. But most of the time the right almost every time they've been writing I'm like Dude I love them like let's bring him on. Yeah I hired a kin. He's he's been with us for about a month now and I give them a lot of crap but Sound like, Hey, you know we're our thirty day review rescheduled yet like what's going GonNa Happen? So but he's been phenomenal I mean ever since he came on and we hired a great videographer you know schedules, several interviews, good copywriter. But Had We hire an acquisition person you know. So just having someone and say, Hey, this is what I need. Go get it go get it and makes everything so much easier So yeah, that's a great point. It is also like what you mentioned. Hire the right people is something we. Might Steve before even the wholesaling business four or five years ago was you know we need somebody to fill in that job role won't put in the first like another first person but. The two people? Yeah. And that's unfortunately that's why a lot of new people do so. What advice he gives them how do you? Find. The right person how do you? Decide, this person's superstar. I. Mean we've talked about you know higher for character trained for talent but how do you figure out someone's character? So anti might be able to share this But she has personality types for each wholesale operation to like it's not going to be always the perfect fit but. You know putting someone into box for what? Type of personality they have to fit that job role. You know acquisitions going to be different than lead manager that's going to be different from a disposition like I think dispose should be definitely more detail oriented task oriented there. Okay. Sitting on the computer doing stuff, but they still have to have some phone skills obviously to get on the phone acquisition guy all they want to do is talk to leads and like all they WANNA do is get to kill you know leander's GonNa WanNA process so she has of. Course, she built it out, but she's like this is the type of personality types Maybe she could post that into your facebook group or something but that that helped us a little bit too by identifying You know if they were a good fit or not for that job role and if you like them, you can maybe show them like we've I've reposition like four or five six of our employees to where like I hired Shell. WHO's amazing. Everybody loves her she's famous she's on wholesale hotline and all that stuff. But she started off as a sales rep and she had. So, much empathy. All did was Karen Care to make sure that there and join the product and making sure they're okay like you're not a sales rep, your an account manager. When we made that shift for her. She loves coming in every day. She's like I get to help people every day. she does have some sales skills, but like her heart is in, that's just her personality and is just like she's amazing but she's struggling and I was like I harder for the wrong job is like now she's the head of the account managers in she's been absolutely phenomenal thriving in the position that she's meant to be in. Yeah. I, think you're absolutely right there on the you got the right people on the bus just GonNa make sure that the right seats other otherwise that person's going to be fighting against their personality to be doing the job yeah. and. Then you were mentioning earlier acquisition versus position something because this came up on a coaching call on Monday actually anyway like to describe it like you said, you know acquisition this role is a person that wants to hunt. This position this is a farmer I mean they're like, wish should higher dispositions like if you can find a Djamil. The you can find that person that's like the perfect disposition person. But might not be able to get that yeah. He he'll own a multimillion dollar company. So. What are your biggest challenges right now I mean we talked about the. You guys are able to solve that problem right hiring hr hire the right people where somebody goes its biggest challenges today as you know, with eighty seven people. Guy Be. How do we go faster babe? Yeah. So kind of a battleship now, you can't go as fast. Like Seattle. Guys are. Definitely harder to everything we have to make a change. There's just so many different changes that we have to talk to support. We had talked to you know go all the way down the chain. But. Having a big but I wouldn't say it's like a big issue that we're having though I mean no, it's just it does take a little bit longer to and we've been talking about, hey, we need to we need to make a change I mean there has to be. A checklist. Fall he's working on that and of course. You know I think the the biggest issue that I could Identify. It's tough. It's. Now. It's you know it's a tiring in bunches. It's it's getting more effective. It's it's getting more proficient with the small things. It's tweaking the little things We I. Mean we we I think we've done a pretty good job quickly like really learning how to create you know something good but now it's really diving in and getting I think we could get a little more mentorship on scaling to another level, and that's something that we probably could work on a little bit more reaching out to people in you know the the space that we're in now and getting some advice on stuff that we have it went through yet but you know their. Stuff it's tough. I think I think we've done a pretty good job at they're still we still have so much to learn, and we still as it's all the little things now like. the little things. It's the thing with like literally this morning. Is. With the even doing like an actual split and split testing versus that then that's where you know that's what we're striving. We haven't had the time because we've been in business now we could be like. Having a bigger look at the big picture. Okay. We could split test this or you know like people Gerry Doran, great example like all the little minute things that he does you know this color taking out this word that's the stuff that we're trying to start to get into to really understand okay and then listening to you know we've always been really good about listening to the customers that use our products and we keep trying to build what they're asking for it, and that's that's the other thing that we it's just it's never ending like he will never create a product and stop developing it because you know people give us good feedback and. Our goal is to be the best it really is in I think I. Think we're on our way but we you can't stop developing because me and him have had this conversation. There's someone 'cause we were the little guy I used the little guy mantra forever we're not that anymore right. So now my mantra is there Selwyn behind the saying I'm GonNa go get you and I'm scared to death look at him like we can never stop like we have to keep the pedal to the metal like there's no, there's no comfort you know I think on my last interview would I say say like complacency kills or something like that? Like you once you get complacent, there's someone else that wants to take your spot, remember the name of the old. CEO and so the book was only the paranoid survive. Facts yeah, So one thing I wanNA talk about as well as the go knock out because that. Turn around pretty quickly as a quality product I mean, when did you guys when to pace a hey I want to make this app what was timeframe January of this year? Yes. No. But yes you're starting. January this year. The December January actually rebranding that two batch driven. Yeah. But it's impressive because you guys have somehow went from a wholesaling company to a skip. Tracing? Company. To, a batch leads stacking company, right? To you guys were able to roll out. A whole new functional. In seven months. So. I think that in the big learning curve for sure. About that because I think that's really cool. It's not wholesale related but I think this is part of. Again we don't get in wholesale because we want wholesale again, the wholesale because we want to do something big that gives us time for your financial freedom. So let's talk about what that journey was. When pays like, Hey, guys that's what I WANNA do. He has wine in to so I'll start and all that you finish but. What's so unique about US especially, with you know we have a dialer launching at the end of this month now, September twenty ninth guys shameless plug bashed our dot com get on the weightless because we are not going to go live. We are going to go through list to have a thousand people on the wait list. That is the only way you're going to get access. If you're already one of our customers, we call you first. So if you want to the I. Go You. About. Scriptures. But to my point is we are able to reuse our technology across multiple products and that's how we've been able to Do stuff much quicker is for you know go knock we have data in there we have our skip facing there we have a core API to where we're able to plug that into our system. So we're not building something from scratch were able to take parts of technology from each of our companies now, and that's where people are these other companies are gonNA start struggling because we're having all these different. Technologies that were able to share with each other and you know a dollar doesn't have a data company well, guess what we're going to put some really cool data into that dialer. Yeah. and vice versa. So that's where I think our strengths alliance where we can do stuff quicker when it comes to developing it that's this is your question to answer. Yeah, So we actually started putting the the initial visas for what you just mentioned about their core Api saw that's pretty much are the company that basically all of our services stop to. That Oliver Services. Talked to when both Are The developers were in Phoenix that was in February. It was in February. So that's when we started putting the initial piece. Again, there was a game changing for because you're just that that that's how I mean you go to a, you know a five, hundred, million dollar company. All of these, all the big companies that's what they have. They have a proprietary technology. That's what. That's what we call our core API. That's what it is. So Oliver Services are able to tap into like the basic the logic of. That saw through built. So let's say bachelors or. You know going on Badger driven batch dialer Bob skip tracing all of literally get data and use the logic of our centralized processing it this ep over a company basement. Yeah. So I mean that CPI, is that basically will allow us to eventually if you wanted to let's Selah later or if. You have your own product. We can. You can utilize bits and pieces if obviously you know for a cost. Of that product and will allow you to through. And there's a far cry from when we first met and you're trying to make your own API. I have no idea. I mean I. I keep saying. Three years ago I had no either one, the API as. I I remember have to look it up but I think it's impressive right to give from. Making your own code that you didn't know what the hell you're doing. To eventually making your own code to eventually hiring someone throughout the code the eventually hire someone to manage that person that's writing the code. Yeah I haven't written actually like my own cold at all I've now does not have absolutely no called okay I. Just know what I want and how I wanted to basically. Function and along with that. You know it's been a big learning curve to understand you know because I have a lot of developers me one another I mean everybody says, Hey, I'm leaving the developer and vice versa that thing and I just have to get through a lot of the BS step in you know to figure out who's right and who's wrong and in bring the proceeds from that point and those a lot of the decisions that I've learned to make pretty well over the past couple of. Our to lead developers are like he he he struggled to these bolt two incredible people that are fully dedicated and are very very smart and have been in industry for twenty plus years Gotcha better than the guy that we hired for the rules. Even more. So yes. Yeah that that costs all of us. I'll take the blame is a visionary on that project for sure. Yeah I remember I post on my facebook group and they're like, what happened why? Cody on Sierra like here's what happened. So this is the other thing I want to tell people to is you know we've tried you know multiple products. We've tried a lot of different things not everything has exceeded for. So you're hearing good stuff. We we rolled out a texting platform almost two years ago it didn't work like the we didn't we got. You know basically, it was a source close skeleton. On. Top of it didn't work. You know we lost money on that. We've lost money on. Multiple projects but we keep trying keep learning and we keep getting better now. So you know like my sisters like everything guys do great and I'm like, you just don't I don't want to let you know like the bad stuff like I try to have a positive mindset and focus on the good stuff. So you know if we fail, we learned from that we move on but. You know she's like everything is great and I'm like, no, like we have we have tons of stuff that you know we have not done right and we've learned and I think that's one of our strengths as we fail and we fail forward and we've make sure we don't make that mistake again. But yeah. I mean as an all you guys that are wholesaling are entrepreneurs are you did I fix and flip it didn't go well doesn't mean don't do it It means learn from what you did wrong and then do better the next time. Yeah. Awesome and guys you know they're still trying to ask questions really a lot of questions here but feel free to ask questions, guys and it was your guys are able to get a commercial building. So we? Oh. Yes. Right. Talk about that. You want sure what that means sure So we we bought at the I'm not sure your rainy. You found that. And initially, we started looking for a rental space in it was just so ridiculously expensive to. Rent something for five thousand bucks a month and. By that and our mortgage is cheaper. Yeah I said Hey we're GONNA get married. Let's get a house to. Basically what I said and because it was too expensive and we had three releases, I'm doing the math on my respect like one hundred, thousand dollars over the next three years I let's go buy something and they looked at me like questions like done. Let's go look ask. As. Yeah. We we bought it we moved on to quickly we we got an offer but it put in two hundred and fifty thousand remodel on in it and refinance it got all the money. At this you mentioned five thousand dollars a month because that's exactly what I'm spending. So we got a classroom, I'm really excited about the classroom. Yes. So I haven't I've got to see a little bit on social media. So tell a little bit about your spacing how are you gonNA utilize it and what exactly is it four 'cause you have a bunch of companies to so and using it for so What I learned in doing events is the best generally don't make money facts and the biggest reason why we've been stomach money because they're expensive as hell. So we did an event, not the last one. But the one before we we we paid the bill whatever it was, and he's the always come cost at least twenty, thousand, Humphry Chavez. Well, and so we had our event and we get an updated invoice after the event. And they're like, yeah you much like what are you talking about and they're like because it's thirty dollars per person per day for Internet. You know each day spending a hundred fifty dollars per head, right? And so they said, they changed they charge nine hundred bucks more on on the. Invoice. What are you guys talking about? They say well. Our manager came in and counted the heads I was like. I. Have the received like a have like the seating chart over everyone sat. and. Not only that I've got video footage of the event I can show you how many people at the events we had a fight with them for like two days. Over nine hundred dollars that we didn't you know absorb read in. Account for we didn't Califor- we didn't spend it. But like these kinds of things, right. So now instead of spending twenty, thousand per. I can not spend that and I have I'd have to worry about cost Internet spending three, hundred, fifty dollars a day for a projector and we can get nice food catered right right and get a lemmings right down the street from my office I'll be guest speaker. Appreciate it right and then we got. So we instead of getting a project five inch TV, we got white boards all around so It's GonNa be a killer setup for for people that come into come in and instead of doing events quarterly. Demand could do events monthly right when you spend the job. Yeah. Thank you. Appreciate that So okay. So we got some questions here. So Pedro are the first developers you guys hired us-based. No. but if I had to Redo it all over again, I would probably start with lead developer first. In both of our lead developers in the US. But you get what you pay for. If if you're paying someone twelve dollars an hour to develop a product, that's actually one of the things that hurt us at the beginning on Bachelor Zacher the. Logic for that was built off of cheaper people that didn't have the wherewithal to understand like what if we grow what they'd have the force you know the infrastructure. and. So and that's the key of good developer is like match just building for today we're building for tomorrow. Like building a house with two story house with two by force. is a WHO wants to know. Are you guys coming out with the CRM? No. Never never s show is on here now. there's a lotta great serums we want to integrate with Sierra I don't want. the support and the what we have to do to support our customers properly is already a lot and I want to make sure that that's one of the most important things is making sure that we do that. Adding, crm element is just it's taking it to a level where. I. Don't want the responsibility for every single thing you do I'm okay. With all of the the lead generation, all that stuff but prospect extra. Put someone into a box to where that's they have to use our serum with our products. I want people to decide and be able to use what they see fit and that's just kind of what we came up with and I. I, really. Don't think we will. Gotcha Annie wants to know if you're starting with wholesaling where would you start? Can she elaborate? Where would start? How would you start wholesaling business brand new? I mean we we talked about this a little bit less than what would you? Also like there's a lot of absolutely. Going, that's why the bachelor. The, renaming it. That's why we actually build it. It's execs for the beginning I mean. You can find local houses. It's fifty bucks a month I mean if you if you don't have that money to spend fifty bucks a month then. I mean, that's a whole nother issue but. Kiss Them Dana the target gives them. The gives them prefer closures you can go door lock if you want it to I mean you can do a lot of stuff. Dollars. So as long as you're proactive, there's no reason you can't get a deal. Yeah. There's no reason. Scrape Point Any I don't know when the need of starting again I want to I miss them. I don't know when that's. Starting again, wants to know how often are you guys looking at Future Vision for the company you know five or more years down the road. well, we do every quarter of us in their meetings, but we haven't been able to project anything a year to be honest. Yeah it's hard I think it's tough on people out this big five year vision. Two years ago I can tell you I didn't think I'd be sitting here talking about this and knowing about logic and according to. You know like you just don't know. I don't want to box myself into something. That's where really liked quarters. He kinda project a year but I mean we were You know just over a year Dover just starting to talk about a dollar. We just you know about texting rolling. You just don't know where it's GonNa take you a five year goal. CENTRALISTIC I I don't like it maybe for a big company. It's a little bit different that you know has a hundred years of. You, know. Heavier as five years it's just kind of a a a hopeless and that's really I think quarter-by-quarter in projecting out a year seems. Kim Device I mean, if you're like a real estate developer or something like that, you could say this is. I think it depends also like you know how like how much like you're pushing through and how how much invading as well. Because you know we said actually quarter goes in our March meeting. Our. March April, we said yearly goals. January and we hit our yearly goal on. June. It was before that. Yeah, and it's like well, okay we hit or your legal. So. You know that's constantly updating. Ryan wants you can go back and change one thing for your past with your business would it be and why? Push evil two years ago earlier now You go I I mean I think also from my experience again, like I've had I've never had a partnership before but I just. You know. Kind of stay away from them, that's just been my. Mindset my thinking before. I think the right partnership is can only elevate you. But again, there is a lot of liquid you were saying earlier there's a lot of things that you have to check box the after Check because the wrong partnership can obviously do the same thing. I think if I was the question, you can go back and change one thing from you pass in your business. So any of my businesses realizing the importance of someone that does the hiring for you because i. Truly, believe even more than ever having the right people in the right spot is so important and if you have I think you're starting to learn this to if you have someone that constantly be looking for you and finding those right fits, I don't think anything's more important that position to be honest with you I knew it. I just didn't WanNa pull the trigger on it. And it's the trigger guy wasn't earlier. I think that having someone have if you're by yourself and you know you have to bootstrap it but taking your time, you know you may want to pull away from some of the stuff if you do have a decent operation going but like Just don't hire someone to hire somebody I. Did that too much I'm like, oh, they seem good. You know I didn't think it through I didn't but if you could have or if you do have a partner and that's one someone's core roles to do at the beginning. Hiring writers you're just wasting time hiring the wrong people. Yeah. Skip point. will there be Martinez. Well, they'd be trial period for the new dialer. No there going to be a trial. They'll be no trial. It will be you'll get a demo and you'll be able to look at it but I mean there's not a single dialer that has trial period like I. Let you know it's amazing. We've worked our butts off on and you will not be disappointed signing up for it. Pretty strong I'm I'm a tough it's GONNA. It's GonNa. Be The best like guarantee you I'll. All right. He's a bold whereas I'll check him out anyone know which Lambeau do I like better I'll be honest with you I like my better and both Orlando. What's your next move and expansion? Dollar. Valley two dollars pretty much done. Our is other verticals. So getting into you know insurance people so like our expansion now is. we want to cater to the real estate investor wholesaler but I think our technology were able to to get to some realtors. Now I think we built stuff to realtors could see some use our stuff and then getting into insurance and then starting to look into some other verticals, and then eventually on the dialer side God willing it keeps keeps going great is we actually want to have it be more in contact so any business could use it for Vr for yeah like like anything that has inbound calls I mean anything from inbound and outbound. So Beg us all right call real component where you're leaking there as well. we don't have the currency but but you said it was the best thing ever. Noah. I'm just features that go. Primarily like on the inbound side though and that is completely like on their on their bill. Just. Isn't it wants to know if he wants to be on a waiting list to to hear about your latest and greatest tools? Where would he go? Suffer Batch allergist got a bachelor dot Com. B. ATC? HD. A.. L. E. R. DOT COM. And you've been on the list and We'll start calling people September twenty-ninth, and that's the only way to get access because we're doing this weightless for a couple reasons. The first reason is we want everybody to get onboard properly and get the right experience. If we have a ton of people, there's a lot of interest if we just let. Everybody signed up. They're not going to get the experience and on boarding and training, they need to be successful on the platform. So that is the biggest in Y were rolling it out slowly because everybody that uses it and signs up to make sure that they're getting the full understanding of the product in the power of it to where they could be successful. Awesome Aaron Johnson wants to know another now that you have established such a strong partnership, what do you think the keys are to sustaining? Sustaining it sustaining strong partnership. It's wanting to get married. How do you stay married? Communication understanding our roles and? Our leadership is pouring into our leadership the the more we pour to our leadership team The more fresher takes off of us where you know there's We just we do a good job like I really that doesn't even really cross my mind because I know how? Well, the three of us were together something special like it really really is. and. I just think that. I think we're good man I really do I don't think that we're GonNa have a tennis shoes though, but the the question is more. So like you know like just a general question for anybody and and I think like this thing like knowing your job role like what's the response your responsibilities and sticking to those like you know like for instance I can't just more just not going to go and hire somebody theft. The same thing you know though like let's say lead to do something without my knowledge that thing you know what I mean. So just knowing your knowing your responsibilities in staying kind of Executing, you yourself. Communication, basically, between the three of us, I say as you grow and get bigger in Check near you go. Like something is that ruins a lot of partnerships? And I'm lucky to have like two most eagle this partners in the world. But a lot of people there will ego will get involved. Hey I did more than you or I'm more important than you. We don't have that like I think all of us bring something so unique that I'm appreciative like. and if I start feeling myself, I'm like, can you do this without them I'm like, nope shut up I don't take them but if I start feeling some type of way like Yo, you know like. This is all of us and it's not just the three of us. It's the whole team and it really is. E- to Ari I want to know will integrate for DNC scrub besides just the litigators. For the NC Scrub we have the DNC A, it's an API. So weekend. Yes. Frisco Jessica wasn't will you be to text while you call? On the either. I guess, those platforms are going to be completely separate, but we will have a one off kind of text functionally most likely going to be in the world, but it's it's. Quite a in the beginning I mean So Isaac Great Question here, I should have asked this question was the difference between the Bash dialer compared to other dialers. So, there's a you know I've used a lot of the dollars out there and I think that every single now that I've used, I've used a module to Sinkhole I've used five nine as well and there's just For the wholesaler and even like the the real estate I I see a lot of inefficiencies in all these hours I mean I can stars a lot. There's a lot of inefficiencies everything from you y you know user experience user interface. Issues to. Some of the integrations that they have, and that's awfully through our bachelor, it's going to be fully. Integrated. So you can just click a button you can select. Obviously you can find your list you can skip trace it. You can say, Hey. Distress seller you click a button and goes into your other and if you have a calling calling team or an agency calling or whoever's calling for you. You know they can have listened a couple of seconds. Yeah. You know what's crazy is like with Mojo, they're basically printing money because. They're not just working with investors. They've been working with realtors forever. Correct they have they should have like no shortage of funds for the fact that they still put up with their mediocrity. I, try to listen to the phone calls Garner water. It's crazy to me correct and that's from from the beginning we started we could've taken the easy route and even the cheaper route in the beginning to where we can integrate and top of take like like Tulio to the platform, and those are some. There's a Billion Dollar Company cloud talk that is running into huge issues. Now, just because they've interviewed the platforms building trillion. Everytime you're has an issue they have an issue. There was a lot of issues with Kohl quality, their billion dollar company, and we we decided from scratch to just do everything we on control everything I'll tell you a lot of the platforms out there are built built on top of a pre existing really old like nineteenth nineteen eighties technology from Vici dial saw like the little using the show. That technology and they can't and part of the reason I believe is that they can't add on functions. The way we can is because they're limited as far as the way the spot plot. Gotcha. Let's see Brian Bell where should they find an integrator? That's a great question. Just networking. It's that's simple. I don't know. It's that's that's a great question This is when I wish pace was here. Well pieces you just came on the show and in cody. I think just saying what you're looking for. You know like, I'm I'm all about putting something into the universe and it will come to you tell every single person that you're looking for integrator talk about integrators like your mind is obsessed with finding an integrator and I think you know the the seizure type stuff I think if you manifest it manifest manifested in some way shape or form, it may not come exactly when you want it to but it will come to you and I I'm a true believer of that. Let's see who is a the asset question Bryan Brian post has questioned the facebook group because Kim's actually hiring integrator for us. We'll tell you are a whole process and how we're finding found one yet but what are you guys doing look for integrative Max cash offers Nobel what are you So we've got the job description created using the Darren Hardy. Basically describe the big the responsibilities and mission statement that trump attributes to. The core, the vital metrics priorities We find all of that right and we have to give that to kin in a maximum I both have to take predictive indexing here the. The qualities that would make a great integrator and they take on the mix it. and then we have a job forum that they we posted on indeed. Create a job description indeed. They click on that and then they. They WANNA, fill out bay they review the indeed ad they click on that form they complete the profile which includes their instagram handle their facebook profile so we don't stock them to find out more about them. Fight on more questions about them we got three items. The checklist says they understand. That this phoenix come in right like there's no remote job. but then after that, then they have to actually lot had stick predictive test. Pressing those details ads? What did you learn all these details? This is the high level part someone actually go. Win Win and did all these things right? Articulate what it is that we want. and. So I after they take the predictive index profile can looks at it and you see there's lineup. With the profile that we created with Mike mccloskey that's we use for at predictive index Gotcha but. Then after that, we like them then Kim screens them base out the job description we created. So you're basically telling the people that are watching this right now. How Important numerator is into your business. Yeah. Absolutely and that's that kin is basically I brought him on as an integrator for our. Coaching program. But Parvez description. A twenty percent is recruiting because that's part of. Having the machine work out the right people in the machine machine does a one hundred percent. So what's the what's the cost with the dialer and was the euro? Bachelor dot. COM If they sign up, we're still playing with numbers. We want to have some specials for Signing up if you get on the list, you're going to get a little bit different pricing than what it's going to be. Once it comes to the full public. So it'll be something similar to you know call tools, Zen call. We're not going to be priced to where Mojo where they're like one fifty for multi line dialer ever. It'll be something similar to that. Know probably be slash read right Yes for the disruptors like. So the other question from Bryant is how do we date each other I? Think that's So. Dating Process for whether this is a good fit for partnership or not I think you mentioned a little bit. Yes. Just work on us together. So. I, all elaborate, little further. So Anthony Papas in alphabet doing this right now is they signed a three month agreement to share adspend spending on marketing together Anthony's doing the acquisitions. Alec is doing the dispositions and. If they want to keep it going all extended another three months like they're just sitting there pooling their money together saying, Hey, we're going to be the squad up and it's better to work together. Then try and do the separately and I think that's I kind of mentioned that to him and I think that's a great way is Carlos Salomon when I was partnered with jared we did mailing campaigns together call US positions. We did the dispositions we split the cost and we did that we work in partner. So. That's not really a dating face but that was a way for us to start getting more deals to certain growing our marketing revenue. But I think what elegant anthony are doing is great. They signed a three three month commitment. Hey, we're going to put this stuff up. This is what you're GonNa do this is what I'm going to do. And then you can see if it's if you guys make a little bit of money and you're like, Hey, we obviously don't work well together then no harm no foul right but you know I think they tend to work pretty well together I have already put money on them partnering Yeah and I I would say that when you guys do decide to partner whoever's listening is make sure you get a great pre-nup, which is an operating it. So I want make a couple of announcements. So you guys thing w- The last message you has wanNA leave the listeners with guys. If you like this, you've got value please like this subscribe share comments. I really help me get the message out to more people and again for those guys are interested in the special close a program that I created is go text closer to three, three, seven, seven seven and join us next week we're going to have Will. Negro Farro. I hope I'm not bitching his name coming in from Houston he's GonNa share how cold actually helped him refine his business Did the same for us. So last thoughts start with star with you. Last. Thoughts is I mean this was all about. You know putting together the right team, the right systems, the right processes it's I think Brett said great because there's a lot of people that are just getting started is don't try to be the CEO. When he started I wasn't the CEO and I for started not your job roles dear job and then winner ready to hire you guys make sure that you you're hiring the right person instead of hiring a person and I think that's just that's really what I've taken this. Year is like having such amazing team members and I'm sitting here doting over them all day. Yeah. But it's it's just it. Really. It really helps that much man I. Tell You I've hired so many persons that were not the right person and you're wasting time you're wasting time or wasting time fa find that right person or for the integrator you know date and you know that's where you can do you know a little three month agreement or six month agreement and see how it works. Its own wanted to get a hold of you. How would they do that on instagram is Jesse Burrell. So my first and last name J se B. U. R. E., l. l., awesome Ebo last thoughts SET, up your accountability chart and the the calculator settled in even if you're like a soap and you're. You're going to be every single one of those boxes higher out like like he mentioned. As as you need. Different. So you can actually getting out of the business and then obviously our. Dedicate some time to work on your business, not business, and that's something that. Initially I think that I was just so busy you know three or four years ago it was just so busy working in the business and I could never find the time to work on the business. I would literally schedule on my calendar work on the business and are breaking on systems are breaking start looking at the business from a higher level than you doing the day to day basis. And could I landed on my final last thought sure is I want to truly thank you for all the stuff you've done for us. All the stuff that you poured into the community and trading the hundred millionaires I almost bought my today and I'm just GonNa sit set it right here. But you're a huge part of my growth. I've went to you for a lot of Maybe, not as much business but personal stuff and I just say that we greatly appreciate all you've done for us. Thank you. My pleasure. I mean I. Love It I. I love what we're doing here and as a community and trying to be a role model for the for the rest of the country, how how to get hold of you facebook or Instagram At ideal the R. A.. V.. No Way. They guys. Thank you for watching till next week. You thanks for having. Scenery. Disrupt. Body. In. Your. Sleep. Train. UPCHURCH. Shot up St trae. Phone speech. This.

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How the Navajo Code Talkers Worked

Stuff You Should Know

48:18 min | 2 years ago

How the Navajo Code Talkers Worked

"Steffi Chinook was supported by Amazon music with Amazon music. Avoid is all you need. Discover over fifty million songs thousands of curated playlist and stations across all your devices just by asking find your favorite songs at the tip of your fingers and the tip of your tongue new customers. Get three months for only ninety nine cents at Amazon music dot com. Renews automatically cancels anytime. Welcome step. You should know from how stuff works dot com. Hey and welcome to the podcast. I'm Josh Clark. There's Charles w Chuck Bryant over there, and there's Jerry. So this is stuff, you should know. This is gonna be a good one. This is a grab stir joint. Did you want to talk about soup? I. Getting. Yeah. I was kidding. Oh, I thought you were serious and now it was bad soup. But I mean on that pad. I mean, right before we started recording. Like, this is how how awesome things are down. Here. We were talking about how bad your French onion soup was how do you mess up French onion? Yeah. That's what I was wondering. And he said say that I wanna talk about this. And I thought you were serious. Yeah. I was kidding. No. We'll in here. We are. I was kidding. Yeah. We were talking about the soup. Anyway, how do you mess up French beef, broth, salt onions, jeez bread? Yeah. They put too much in it melted in the crock pot. The yes, this the onions they use were way too. Sweet. I think they use like onions dipped in sugar. It was not good. Yeah. Not good the Intel. We shouldn't call them out now obliquely. No. That'd be pretty mean. Sure. I mean, they just don't know what they're doing a soup. It's funny. But there are soup restaurant. Sh. There are a lot of soup restaurants. He I guess you. Remember that dumb one? I think they're out of business now. Let us sue prize. You dumb. Lettuce surprise, buddy soup and salad that that's out of business. Right. Yeah. There's something called sweet tomatoes. That's basically the have heard of that. Yep. Hey, I like a good soup and salad joint. Yes. So what was wrong with lettuce surprise you? I don't know. I don't like cutesy names. Well, unless it's on the Simpsons, and I think the teas were made of carrots. Yeah. Yeah. For sure. Well, that leads us, right? Into Navajo code talkers. Exactly quite well. We should say right out of the gate that we're like you just said we're talking about Navajo code talkers. There were plenty of other code talkers. Other native American tribes. Yes, this episode is mostly about the Navajo code talkers. Because there was so many of them and so much is known about the codes they made, but we'll also mentioned other tribes as well. Yes. And straight up respect to all of them for sure it always kinda stinks. When one thing gets all the glory. When there were many vaccines of that thing. So. Yeah. Right. But I think that's better than just naming this episode like how code talkers work, but only talking about the Navajo code talker. Agreed. I think we covered everything right greed. So if you have ever seen or familiar with the movie called wind talkers V seen it I didn't see it. But I did look it up today, and it is widely regarded as not only garbage garbage movie, but a real disservice to do a great to do a movie about the Navajo code talkers. But it's really movie about Nick cage. Right directed by John. Woo. Yeah. It's a violent war movie that happened to to be structured around a really interesting historical plot, right? Like, let's let's take this really amazing story from history, and let's more fit into a story about a. White soldier. It's like dirty dancing to Havana nights. Basically. It's funny. Yes. A wind talkers. I do I do not endorse that film. I've not either. And neither of us have seen it, and we still don't endorse it. No. I just need to see the reviews on that one. But the the the the point of it was that there was a native American. I don't know if he's a novel or not in that movie because again haven't seen it. Yeah. But who was who is charged with speaking his native tongue to someone else on the other end of the line at the front lines of battle in the Pacific theater gets World War to to transmit messages in code and unbreakable code and that actually happened like that part of the story happen, and it was true that there were in World War, Two native Americans enlarge part Navajo who were speaking to one another in Navajos like on Guadalcanal or in the Mariana 's or the Marshall Islands or Okinawa. Who were there? There. Yeah. At all of these major massive battles. Oh in the Pacific theater between the the United States in Japan that actually eventually led to this island hopping process led to the the atomic bombs being dropped on here. Shema in Nagasaki from the Marianna ze. Yeah, code so. Well complex to are dumb ears to the Navajo. They were just like this is just our language to. But even if you're a linguist you like, this is those your drawer narrowly difficult language. Yeah. But so complex that it can founded the Japanese who were really good at busting codes. And they were like, I don't know. What's going on here? You're right. Yeah. This is a never heard anything like this, which was a huge reversal because prior to the institution of Navajo, code talkers. And I think nineteen forty two like late nineteen forty two the Japanese had our goat with are coded transmissions because for the for. Number one. There were a number of Japanese people who'd been educated in the US in between World War One World War Two and had gone back to Japan prior to World War Two, and they were totally fluent in English. Yeah. So they could speak English like up down inside ways. Yeah. Plus on top of that they were really good at breaking our coats. So they knew basically everything we were gonna do every step of the way. So the Navajo code talkers coming into the Pacific theater was reversed our fortunes. There's there's it's not an overstatement to say that they basically helped the US take the Pacific. Yeah. From Japan, not single handedly but through their code. Yeah. For sure. All right. So let's talk about the Navajo in general to begin with a native American tribe that inhabited the American southeast or what you know. Now, we know what is the American southwest. Back then it was known as the south. The exactly you're like what this isn't the ghost American South. I wish everyone could see because Josh literally just pointed in the other direction. I wonder if he pointed wets. Is that west? I'm not even know hold on. Now. That's that's north. Okay. The American ended south the American South north. They the original people's were they believe from Asia. Well, yeah. Maybe ironically in the end when you sail the story goes and settled in south west around fourteen hundred CE in the sixteen hundreds a lot of things changed the next few hundred years were they were warring with the Spanish they were warring with other native American tribes. And then that was all kind of leading up to the eighteen hundreds when the United States popped up and said, hey, here's what we're going to do. We're going to wreck your Konami. We're going to destroy your crops and livestock in poison your wells and kill all your buffalo and put you on reservations and Marci Marci to to New Mexico where your new home will be and will be known as the long walk. Yeah. It was basically there. Their trail of tears. Yeah. Exactly. It was just right out of the westward expansion playbook. Yep. And so the Navajo found themselves. I when was that the mid it was eighteen fifty seven I think yet like walk. Why I mean, it's important for lotteries ins, but the men who ended up being the Navajo code talkers in World War Two their grandparents were were these people that were forced to go on the long walk. Yes. It wasn't you know, hundreds and hundreds of years later, right? Like direct descendants, the ended up fighting for the United States. Yes. And this is not like, hey, do my moving over here. It was it was very much like the trail of tears. It was movement three hundred miles to a reservation against their will at the barrel of a gun. Yeah. Like, I don't wanna go. Okay. I'll shoot you the. Yes, exactly. There were reports of of the injured of the tired people who fell. Hind were just shot by the US infantry. There was at least one family that reported that they're pregnant daughter was there were forced away from her. She was kept behind and they heard her being shot as well. Yeah. It was it was it was just a violation in atrocity done to the Navajo lake. It was done to so many other native American groups and by the nineteenth century like basically eighteen fifty seven on the Navajo lived exclusively on reservations in in the south west. Yeah. In starting in about the eighteen seventies. The US government said here's what we're going to do. You have to assimilate into American society, we want you to forget your culture as you knew it, you can't speak your native language anymore. We're gonna round up your kids and send him to American boarding schools. Teach them to read and write in English only, and you're going to be punished in forbidden from speaking your native tongue from singing in your native tongue. Yes, you will be beaten. We catch you. Speaking Navajos to one another, and they think you just said the they would kidnap children take them to these schools. Just like they did with the aboriginal tribes in Australia. Just like they did with the first Americans in the first nations in Canada. And it was just not only have we taken your land. Not only be forced you to live in this one area that no one else wants to live in like, we want to destroy your culture. Now, like, we're going after your culture, we wanna blit you guys completely. We'll let you live. But under these conditions were not we're gonna murder your culture. And so not only were these code talkers, the grandchildren are the grandsons of the people who went on the long walk. They were the very people who went to these Indian schools, and we're beaten for speaking Navajos, and then about nineteen forty to the United States military, specifically the marine showed up and said. Hey, we'd love for you to come speak Navajo officially for the United States government. Would you mind doing that? Yeah. And this was after World War One it it went on in World War One actually World War Two got all the press in the nab, Hove course did more than anyone else. Like, you said, but in World War One there were in one thousand nine hundred and there was a captain from one hundred and forty second infantry regiment who heard to Choctaw soldiers speaking in their native tongue, right? And it was like man, we're getting hammered with the Germans and the French cracking are codes. So I think that this language could be of use to us because this really complex Germans have no idea what what's going on with your language, and I think we could put you to use. And so the very first code talkers. I think were these Choctaw code talkers, more one. Yeah. The the well, we were fighting with the French, and we were talking to the French the German spoke, French and English and we're using regular. Telephone lines and World War One. I guess sure. They just had them tapped. So they were just eavesdropping. And we might as well have been speaking German for as well as they were translating. These coded transmissions. Yeah. No of a sudden, they're like, what is what is this? We've never heard this language before ever. It's just a couple of Choctaw guys talking to one another. But it was a for Germany and unbreakable code at least as long as we're war one was going on. Yeah. And I don't think this early World War One code was so much code as like you're saying like, right? We're just going to put a Choctaw on one end and a chucked on the other end of the line. And they'll just relate the messages that we tell them to and their native tongue and the Germans were like nine. Only word I can think of pain whole good as well. We're too. Hsun come years later. So it wasn't just a Choctaw members of the Choctaw tribe who were code talkers in World War One also the Comanche played a role. Yeah. The FOX which is also known as the. Oh, man ahead. It have you ever heard of the FOX tribe from I believe Mississippi. I don't think so you know, there was also the Comanche. They played a big role and some other tribes did as well. Yeah. But there's like we're talking a handful of people in the capacity like you were saying, it's like just say this in your native language to this other guy who speaks your native language, and he'll tell you know, the guy on the other end what you just said in English yet. And here's the rub. I mean, there it is rich with irony throughout this whole story. But here's the rub in World War One is that native Americans weren't even granted citizenship until nineteen twenty four. So the World War One code. Talkers were not even American citizens yet they were doing this. And they were not even recognized by the United States and acknowledged and thanked until two thousand eight thousand eight ten years ago, France, even recognize them, and I think one thousand nine hundred eighty eight eighty nine. Yeah. Eighty nine. Did you say that now? Okay. So. France recognized them I and it took another twenty years before the US recognized them financially. Unbelievable. It is unbelievable. But the the the problem with World War One is it worked, but we became friendly with Germany in World War One and World War Two and Germany said, we're gonna hedge our bets here, we're going to send some people to the United States to learn native, American, languages, and culture. So that if we ever go to war with the United States, again, we'll have their number, and they did apparently there were plenty of. Well, I don't know plenty is the right word. But there were Germans who spoke. Cherokee comanche. Chalk crazy so that so much. So that the the some of the American commanders in World War Two were like, we can't use native American language because there's Germans who know this already they were compromised, basically. Yeah. Between World War One and World War Two. You wanna take a break? Oh, yes. All right. Let's take a break. And we're gonna come back and talk about the dawn of World War Two and a man name Philip Johnston. Chuck you, and I have pretty decent voices. I guess sure. Yeah. All we have to do is use voices on Amazon music, and we can discover over fifty million songs and thousands of curated playlist and stations just by talking just by doing what we do normally, which is flapping our gums. That's right. You can request popular music from a decade or even a specific year. Like, hey, I want to hear some sweet new way the eighties jams, and it's that easy. Yeah. And it works across all of your devices to you have some friends coming over tonight, just say play music for dinner party, and your device will say why are you talking like a robot? Are you making fun of me? It's right. And here's the goal is part. If you can't remember the name to a song, which happens to us all but you can't remember some of the lyrics. Just ask for the song that goes, blah, blah, blah lyrics or bomb took awhile while that's right, listening to music is never been more, natural simple and fun everybody. And right now. New customers can get three months for only ninety nine cents. Yeah. That's Amazon music dot com. Renews automatically cancels anytime. All right. So right before World War Two those a training exercise going on with with soldiers for Michigan. And Wisconsin there native American soldiers involved. And there was a man, and they were you know, they're testing out. These coded transmissions. We did it will wear one. Let's try again, those a man there named Philip Johnston. Who was a white, man. But he actually grew up on a Navajo reservation. I think he just read an article about this actually, really. Yeah. He wasn't in the army this time. Right. Right. 'cause they brought him in like he was way too old way too old around this time. I think it was about fifty years old. Yeah. But all he had the benefit of growing up on a Nebo reservation considered himself. Navajo spoken language following more one and said, I wanna make a comeback and want to go back and fight and World War Two and start up this crack team of Navajo code talkers. It was. His idea. Yeah. And they said he went into the office of whatever higher up general he needed to spoke some Navajo to this worked once why can't work twice and they were like by George. I think you're onto something they said, we'll give you a we'll give you a chance to demonstrate this. So apparently in Los Angeles, he recruited four Navajo men. I guess he was friendly with because like you said he considered himself Navajos parents were missionaries. Yeah. And apparently, he spoke Navajo. So well that age nine he served as the official translator for a novel delegation that had gone to Washington DC to lobby for better treatment and writes for the Navajo nation, which is a mazing because as you'll learn the not a lot because there were other white people who spoke Navajo that tried to be co talkers, and none of them made the cut, no such a hard language. So this guy must have just had year four to. Yeah. And was raised with it yet. But. He he said, we I know you guys are trying to make a code of got this language of got these four guys from Los Angeles with me just give him a shot. And so they gave him a shot. I think camp Elliot, and they gave to they took the to the four Navajo guys broke them into pairs put them in separate rooms and said here say this in Navajos say this English phrase, the eagle lands of midnight will say all right that'll fit and tell your buddies and see what they say they transmitted the eagle lands of midnight, or whatever it was over the phone in Navajo the guys in the other room took it Navajo translated back into English in like a minute. And the guys at camp Elliott were pretty impressed by this. They said we're going to bring in some German Japanese people to listen, right? And they're like get that. I have no idea they said nine and whatever the Japanese word is for note. You know that Nieta yet? I really know was like that sounds grudges the word from now, they say, no, so infrequent, but say, you know, I don't know that because all you says. Yes, when you go there. Yeah. Sure. I'll take more. Yes. More please just bang my bowl on the table. So so, yeah, they they actually didn't do that. I'm kidding. Of course. But they said this is great in. This is the trick was not only was it like basically impossible to crack. But like you're saying it was super fast way faster than machine codes. Right. So that's a huge advantage that this. This offered was using Navajos speakers to send a coded message prior to this in an addition to this. You would you would use basically machines that used algorithms to encode decode a message, and it could take hours hours if you're trying to send a desk. Britt message on a frontline battle in the Pacific theater. You don't have hours for that thing to get across. So the idea that you could do the same thing in minutes in code that you were just positive the Japanese would have no idea what to do with those a huge advantage for. Sure. Yeah. And like the grabs for pointed out, it it was taking a long time with the code machines that the Germans in Japanese cracking anyway. Right. So the solution. There was like, no, no downside to it. Are it's like we said Johnston was Philip Johnson was a far too old because he was a World War One veteran. They gave him a special commission said you're now a staff sergeant in the marines again, or I don't know if he's the marine or in the army, initially, you know, I don't know. But at any rate, he was in the marines this time, and they said year gonna lead the code talker project, go out and recruit. So he went to reservations recruited, young men. And between three and four hundred of these young men became code talkers. He recruited more than that. But a lot of failed out for various reasons. Like, you know, they still go to camp and all that stuff. See still to be a soldier on top of it. Although it was a kind of a truncated version boot camp because it get in there quick they needed him so badly. They're like, okay. Yeah. You're fine. Yeah. New we need to take you to code school, basically. Yeah. But the whole thing started with thirty. They originally recruited thirty Navajos speakers one of them dropped out. So twenty nine there were twenty nine original Navajo, code talkers. And they were put to work initially, creating the code because very importantly, the Navajo Kotok is not only spoke to one another novel, which is incomprehensible to basically anybody living. It listening to who doesn't speak it. They would also. Use a code. They would use code words in Navajos. So what they created was a code within a code was as unbreakable as as any any codes ever been come up anyone's ever come up with. I think we should you. And I can't speak Navajo. I'm I'm rusty. I think we should play just a little bit of Navajos. Oh, all right. And then I'll translate act on nine KYW. I chaired the Jill Blackie, a Nadia AXA Aji, LA Nina Zad, legal achie-, alkyl odd sitting Jila are not yet. Yeah. Opens is. So what you just heard enough Hajo was this is from the the parable of the prodigal, son. If this is from the movie wind talker. What you just heard was not long after that, the younger sewing gut together all he had set off for a distant country, and they're squandered his wealth in wild living. Something everybody does from time to time. But that was that was what you just heard in Navajos. Yeah. And it's it's so foreign sounding for a reason like it's a really difficult language in that like the same vowel can have four different types of intonation and four different. Meaning so one word can have four different meanings based on the whether you know, you go up or speak through your nose or whatever. But you're saying the same word, you're just intoning it differently. And that just changes the meaning dramatically one reason why it was so impenetrable yet. And like you said they they memorized five hundred codewords three different versions of the alphabet and went to war. I mean, I use the word irony. That's that's sort of under sells it what was going on. And why these men would would sign up for something like this and an Edward points out. Like, you can't get into the head of them or explain every person's motivation. Sure because it was all different. But through interviews, you know, what what sort of stood out was that they still even though that the United States had stomped them down into near Livian. They still had a tide of that land and that was their land. And regardless of what had gone on in the past the Germans, and the Japanese were were invaders that they were threat to their holy land. They were still a common enemy between the United States in the Navajos. Oh, yeah. I mean system says so much about their people that they could just put all the other stuff aside and the genocide in the long walk in the trailer. Of tears and say, well, this this is still my land. Even though I'm on a reservation, and I wanna help protect it. Right. Amazing. Yes. Some of them were were joined up because they're the subscribe to the novel warrior culture, the Navajo definitely had their own warrior warrior, cultural, though, that wasn't like this the -sarily the central focus of their culture. Right. Others were like, oh, man. You're gonna get me off of his reservation, and I'm going to go travel world. I've never even been on a bus before. Let's go. Yeah. Someone were like this GI Bill. You're talking about others were drafted didn't wanna go, but they were still drafted and they went so there were just like to to paint. It any other way is to make it like to give it the wind talker treatment. Yes, the stuff, you should know way. There were as many different people. I think there were four hundred twenty one novel co talkers who ended up serving in World War Two. I'm sure there were four hundred twenty one different reasons for why they went. Yeah. That's just the way it is their people. Yeah. And we're talking about people here for twenty four twenty one now. Dolor short daily. So let's talk a little bit about this code within a code. Here's one example, so troops moving forward to the lake is what the grab start came up with. And they wouldn't just get on the horn with their Navajo counterpart on the other end and say troops moving forward to the lake and Navajo they would substitute. In different words. Sometimes they would spell out some words one letter at a time with that letter being represented by a word like the first letter in the word that they say, and it was the I mean there were rules for the code. But the person on the other end they were so in sync with one another that they didn't necessarily look at a chart and say, well, this is means this, and this means this. They were just able to converse rather organically within this code within the code, right? And they all knew that that code. That was like, this means this and this means. This. Yeah. But yeah. From from from the research, it seems like they were able to shift and and like you said make organic. Yeah. On the fly. And they knew what one another was saying kind of threw out the playbook a little bit. I imagine in certain circumstances. And I'm sure the American, you know, the generals and the people in charge were just like just do it, man. Just do your thing or they were like, I have no idea what you just said. They had no idea they throughout the playbook a lot of times they had to do that. Because there weren't a quits of certain words, like they didn't have words for a bomb barred meant and and shell casing and things like that. Because they didn't have the things in their culture. So they had to make up things that they would be able to understand both ways. Well, they they were also. So there is an an alphabet. Right. So every three bet three. Yes. So there were three different words for every letter of alphabet Sommese. Okay. But there's something that is really easy to look past that we really have to to think this is one of the reasons why this is so unbreakable if if you wanted to use the letter, I would say the Navajo word for ice. Right. Okay. But the novel word for doesn't have it doesn't begin with the letter. I they probably didn't have for putting it's funny. The the weird thing is is that they did. They did. Yes, they have ice. It was their most closely related to a native Alaskan tongue. They think so natural. It's like evidence linguistic evidence, they came across the Bering land bridge. Gotcha. So yeah, they also have a word for shark, which is like that doesn't make any sense either. If they they're they're from Arizona, basically, Alexa, Kellyanne shark thought. Yeah. They're like Chevy Chase. Yeah. But they, but they have like a lot of they have one for salmon copperheads, salmon. And that's you know, those in New Mexico beyond is delicious. But the the point is the novel word for ice doesn't necessarily begin with is. So even if you knew yeah, Navajos, oh, you wouldn't necessarily know that this is the word for the letter. I yeah. And the confounded even more if there's three different words for the letter. I even if you're spelling like. What's the word with multiple is hurry up and give me one quick illicit? Yes. Okay. If you're spelling illicit out, you could use two different words for I and that cuts down on letter or in this case codeword repetition, which is one of the easiest ways to break coat. Yeah. Look for repetition, right? Right. And pair those up with the letters that are used most frequently in English. Yes. For using three different codewords for a single letter. You can mix it up spelling it out. So cool makes it even more impenetrable. Yeah. Like, this is just such a gorgeous code. Yeah. They used imagery a lot of times, which is makes it kind of strangely lyrical like a dive bomber was chicken hawk submarine was an iron fish. And then they also use you know, you heard a cockney rhyming slang, which is she's we we could do podcast on that the become cool. Okay. I won't even get into that. But it makes basically make compound words in English sound like a word in the message. So the the examples that the grab Stor got was like the word secured. They would say the Navajo words for sheep cured or dispatch became dog is patch. And now behold though, right? So even if he knew Navajo her dog is patch. You would know that that meant dispatch, right? And if you didn't know Navajo, you wouldn't be able to hear and be like oh that rhymes with dispatched. It doesn't sound like anything you've ever heard before in your life. Yeah. And like you said they would they were so familiar with it and comfortable with it that they would switch it up on the fly in in. You know, again, technically, they had they would do something to alert the the person that was like a system in place to say like now we're going to use this version, but they they didn't even need to do that. Really? Right. That just seem like a formality. And it sounds like. Yeah. But I think one of the reasons why they were so able to shift like that. Because these these guys who were raised in the Indian schools, they had to speak to one another Navajos surreptitiously. Yeah. So they had to be able to shift on the fly just between like nuance and Nava, which is a very new once language to begin with. But also between Navajos in English depending on who is coming their way. Right. So there was a I think I. It's my impression that from there. The treatment in Indian school. I would have made it easier for them to understand what somebody was saying when they broke the the rules of the language really quickly. Yeah. It'd be able to follow. And then check there's one other thing that made this code even more beautiful. It wasn't written down in nineteen forty two. There was no book. No document. No texts that get in teach yourself Navajo, your couldn't get. No. And like you said even some like white kids that were raised out on trading posts and spoke Navajo their whole life. They washed out of the Kotoka program. They had basically a success rate. Non Navajos who had a success rate of basically zero in the code talker program for Navajos coat. Yeah. It was just that hard. Yeah. And that nuanced amazing. All right. We'll take another break you. I'm pretty I'm pretty jazzed up here. Yes. All right. And we'll come back and talk about how this how this really affected the war right after this. You know, if you run a small business. This is a great time to do it because you can get practically everything on demand. Everything you need to run your small business, which leads us to the question. Why are you still going to the post office? Yeah. Because you can get posted on demand with stamps dot com. That's right, stamps dot com. You can access all the amazing services at the post office right from your desk or home office twenty four seven when it's convenient for you. Yet by imprint official US postage for any letter any package using your own computer and printer, and then the mail carrier picks it up he's just click print a mail, and you're done you can get back to the business of running your business. And right now, it gets even better everyone you can use S T U F F for the following special offer up to fifty five dollars free postage a digital scale and four week trial all by going to stamps dot com before you do anything else clicking on that radio microphone at the top of the homepage and typing in our handy dandy. Echoed S T U F F that stamps dot com. Enter stuff. All right. So like we said at this point in the war when they were brought in the Navajo, code talkers. It was the fighting in Europe was dwindling and the Pacific theater is where things were really happening. And so the first action for the actual Navajo code. Talkers were Guadacanal and. I hope we didn't paint a picture that they're sitting in offices talking to another in an air conditioned office on telephones and just sending orders to go bomb. This place on Saturday. A lot of times these men were on the front lines and relying positions. And what's what it's like on the ground and what's going on? It wasn't just directives to go do this. They were laying important information like live in the moment on the front lines. And to add to this. There was confusion a lot of times even among American soldiers like. To an American soldier fifty feet away. A Navajo code talker. Might look like a Japanese person. Does it where these like the very dumbest soldiers of all? I don't know, man. I mean, it's on record that there was friendly fire because of this. So so there they were actually fired on I saw that like they had like guns pointed at them at some point. And would be like marched over to be interrogated. It was such that they felt like they needed to assign them personal guards has forgive Nick cage. And that's what that movie was about is that he was a white soldier assigned to guard one of the Navajo code talkers because they were being mistaken for Japanese soldiers. Right. But he was also secretly ordered to kill that code talker. And let them fall into the hands of the Japanese. Yeah, I wonder if that's the thing that was wholly created for that movie. Like, it's a I I don't know. I could see it go both ways. Yeah. And I don't know. How smart the soldiers were? And confusing. I don't I don't think it happened very often. And I think all it has to happen is two or three times in all of a sudden, it's part of the legend, you know. Yeah. Maybe so, but it did happen. I mean like it was happened from time time there's a guy named think George McCabe who was enough who co talker who was taken prisoner by American American. Yeah. Because he was standing in a Chow line on the beach Guadalcanal waiting to get food. And the guy was like, you Japanese exactly what it did pointed a gun at and said, you're coming with me. And there was like sorry, but William McCabe, I'm sorry. But that was that's yeah. I if you look at a picture of a Navajo code talker. Yeah. Look at a picture of Japanese person. I don't see the the resemblance you should been on the front lines, my friend. I would have been like to. What are you doing? Yeah. The the language itself. And again, this is kind of funny because the language sounds nothing like Japanese, but sometimes US radio operators would jam the frequency. I guess I mean, the grabs her said the because they mistook it for Japanese. I imagine they just heard a foreign language and just jammed it, right? I don't know if they necessarily thought it sounded like Japanese sounds like its own thing for sure. Yeah. Maybe they had no idea what Japanese or Navajo even sounded like it was just like, it ain't English. Maybe they were under orders for like. Yeah. It's not an English jam. Yeah. Possibly could see that. So these like we said the speed was one of the real keys and just how quickly they could get these messages delivered. And it allowed them to. Here's a his a great quote from Philip Johnston who started the program he said during the first forty eight hours, and this Iwojima he said while we were landing and consolidating our short positions had six Abajo radio. Nets operating around the clock in that period alone. They sent received more than eight hundred messages without an error in forty eight hours man, eight hundred messages, no mistakes. No mistakes. That's amazing. And they're relying these messages again in minutes in each of them would have taken hours to decode. Yeah. Without the the Navajo Kotok. There was another quote from guy. Major Howard Connor who is on Iwo Jima as well in the signal corps. And he said paraphrasing here that the marines would not have taken ill Jima headed not been for the Navajo Kotok the entire operation. It would seem that, you know, the very famous like flag-raising statue Jima. Yeah. Basically a turning point in the Pacific that the entire operation was done in Nava. Who did that was what was spoken over the radio for the tannin operations? Amazing. It really is. I mean, like if you think about how many American lives were saved by that. That's been there was just such a direct contribution to the war. Yeah. Jima EVA's huge. Yeah. I'm gonna tell you say, yeah. This this deserves its own movie treatment like sorta like Hidden Figures. Yeah. Like these. Minority voices who really had this huge impact that never got do. And you know, with never who code talkers, they came back to after the war, and it was classified. What went on until nineteen sixty eight. Apparently, they may have done this in Vietnam and Korea. Although I don't think anyone is totally knows that for sure seems to be rumor. Yeah. But they did not you think like oh. And after nineteen sixty eight they were just put on a pedestal in praised all throughout the United States. That is not true. They were basically sent back to the reservations with what awaited them there, which was poverty and hardship and alcoholism and disenfranchisement and some I mean, some of them were were lucky enough to bootstrap up from military. Imagine I think ones that stayed in the military afterward made a career out of it tended to do better than ones that you know, back. Right after the war. Some of them were able to get into college. Some of them tried to buy houses on the reservation through the GI Bill, which was very much there. Right. As veterans after World War Two, but through a fluke of the treaties that put them on the reservation, they don't they? They didn't actually own the land the land that they owned was held in trust. So they couldn't show the Bank actually owned this land or the guy I'm trying to buy land from owns the land. So the GI Bill was useless for a lot of 'em. Which is a big black eye on. It was just basically par for the course for how most of them retreated afterward. Yeah. I mean, just right back on the reservation. It was just the usual reservation. Life again, nineteen sixty-nine. There was a a reunion at the fourth marine division and seventy one Nixon awarded them a certificate of. Thanks. And a light punch in the arm. Tricky. Dick, nineteen eighty to August fourteenth was declared national code talker day that was for all code talkers, yet, not just Navajo code talkers. But those original twenty nine we're giving a congressional gold medal in two thousand and in two thousand fourteen on June fourth the final original code talker. Navajo Kotel ker Chester nez passed away. And just look at the picture of Chester nez in easy. That sweet face. And he's got the veterans had on that says Navajo code talker on I love those hats, pretty amazing the the the award ceremony. So they were warded the congressional medal of honor in two thousand they originally twenty nine, but when they actually presented the award thousand one by the time, they're only four of them left alive. Yeah. And that's a big criticism to that. It was like probably done this a little little sooner while they were alive. Still. Yeah. Could might have taken sixty something years to sort of get that ceremony in order. They wanted to get everything. Just right. But that was amazing. And yet, hopefully, somebody will make a movie about it. That's not mostly about Nick cage is character. That'd be a white guy. If you want to more about code, talkers, you can search them on the internet, and there's some fascinating stuff out there. Oh, and Chuck if you wanna know more about Navajo, code talkers, and you happen to ever be in ca- Yanta era Zona there's a Burger King. They're in. It has basically a Navajo co talker museum. Oh, cool. What's basically display case? But it counts qualifies mini museum. Chur grab a Walker learned something. Yeah. And since I said that it's time for listener mail. I'm to call this easy bake oven. Follow up from Oregon, so guys. Just listen to easy bake ovens of always been a big believer in kids playing with whatever towards they want. And as a kid I spent a great deal of time playing in the dirt with my brothers making roads and parking lots for Hot Wheels flesh for twenty years. My son wanted me to take him to the toy store to spend some six birthday money sixth birthday money. You got followed him as peruse the remote control cars various action figures, he disappeared around the corner and before I could get to the other final became trumping back holding easy bake oven. He asked me if he had enough money to buy it. And he did awesome. This one nineteen ninety nine about twenty bucks. As he as we walked to the counter asked him if he wanted me to carry it for them for the car because the box was about as big as he was the insisted on carrying it himself, though of always encouraged him to play with what he wants of surprised that he wanted to carry it himself. His dad was not always so open minded voice playing with what he called, girl toys, and probably still isn't. We are no longer together. Needless to say, anyway, we pay for the oven in my son carries it to the car. He won't let me put it in the trunk or even in the seat next door. He held it on his lap. The hallway home stories just adore and every way while we were driving. He examined the box and made a haram sound asked him what was wrong, and he said he was mad and asked him why he said the boxes pink. And there's only girl on it. But boys like to cook to mom film. I agree. So I guess you could say he is always been woke. He made many treats with his over the years. And I even have a photo of him somewhere wearing his grandma's frilly. Cooking apron of the big smile on his face that is from davina imbera in Portland, Oregon, another Mberi zehr. Another one. Yeah. Really? Yeah. We never really figured out how to say that last name. But there was like within the last month or two. An MBA. I wonder if it was her. Thanks davina. Yeah. Maybe maybe I think the other one was with the e that's with an eye. Okay. Yeah. Gotcha. I will figure it out one day. Yeah. If you want to if you're an embarrassing, an MBA, or whatever you want to get in touch with us. You can join us on social just go to stuff, you should know dot com and find all the links there percents on Email stuff podcast house. Works dot com. For more on this. Baffles of other topics. How stuff works dot com. Hey, Matt I have yet to ride one of those bird scooters. 'cause I hate those things see that does not surprise me at all. But you know, I've been getting Instagram adds to give me to become a bird to join that gig economy. Oh, that's right. Just like Uber folks are getting targeted to start side hustles to make an extra buck or even to try to make a career out of it. But should you? Do it not all side. Hustles are created equal exactly. Every week. We dive into practical money topics like this on a podcast. Listen, it's scribe to our show on apple podcasts the iheartradio app or wherever you get your podcast. Just search for how to money.

Navajo United States Navajo Kotok Nick cage Philip Johnston Pacific theater Chuck Bryant Navajo lake Josh Clark Amazon New Mexico Germany Intel army Indian school George McCabe official Nagasaki
07-17-20 New Mexico confronts public education disparities

Native America Calling

56:30 min | 3 months ago

07-17-20 New Mexico confronts public education disparities

"Welcome to native America calling from Studio Forty nine in Albuquerque I'm Tara, gatewood. New. Medical schools are under fire for falling short on public education for certain students including native American students. Even after a landmark court decision twenty eighteen, the state continues to struggle to remedy disparities documented in that lawsuit. In addition one school district faces another lawsuit after a teacher allegedly using offensive phrase when talking to need of student, they'll get a progress. Update here about some solutions right after the news. Stay tuned. This is national native news making camera in print. Tony Kansallis the Attorney General for Oklahoma and five tribes have reached an agreement in principle on proposed federal legislation that would clarify criminal and civil jurisdiction in the state. The Tulsa World reports the agreement comes after the landmark Supreme Court decision that about half of the state belongs to native Americans and switched much of eastern Oklahoma from state to federal jurisdiction. The agreement means the state can resume jurisdiction in most of the criminal cases that suddenly reverted to federal control. The Supreme Court ruling had resulted in a sex abuse conviction of a member of. Of the seminal in Muskogee. Creek nations being tossed out prosecutors in Tulsa also had to criminal charges in another case, because the victims were of American Indian descent, but the defendant was then charged in federal court. The agreement seeks approval of federal legislation to clarify the state has criminal jurisdiction over offenders within what is now considered the historic boundaries of the five tribes nations that would not include crimes committed on Indian trust lands or restricted lands, the agreement with the Cherokee chickasaw choctaw Muskogee creek and seminole nations although experts told the Tulsa. World the agreement could apply to four additional tribes as well. Native, American tribes pledged Wednesday to fight a court order that allows oil to keep flowing through the Dakota access pipeline Reuters reports an attorney for earth. Justice, which represents the standing rock Sioux tribe, said a hearing will likely be held the week of July twenty seventh. The US Court of Appeals for the District of Columbia granted an administrative stay this week on a lower court ruling that had ordered the pipeline, shut down and drained while an environmental review was conducted NPR report, so that stay will last through at least July twenty third while the pipeline's operator energy, transfer, LP and its opponents. Opponents filed briefs. In the case. The company is appealing the order to shut down the pipeline, the Standing Rock Sioux tribe thought the pipeline for years contending it could contaminate their drinking water. The tribe argued that the US Army Corps of Engineers didn't conduct adequate environmental reviews. A group of senators is calling on the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention to explain why it appears to be withholding covid nineteen data from tribal epidemiologists. The Mountain West News Bureaus Rail and Michele reports the urban Indian Health Institute is one of twelve tribal epidemiology centers in the country, and it serves the seventy percent. Percent of American, Indian and Alaskan native people who live in cities, not on tribal land Abigail. Echo Hawk is the director and she requested data on Covid nineteen testing, but also on risk factors and chronic diseases. If we were able to access that kind of data and it's good quality data, we would be able to present tribal leadership, policymakers, states and counties with more information on how to prevent how to intervene and how to work with our communities as covid nineteen continues to sweep across this country in a statement, the CDC said it has been working with the centers to set up. Up Data use agreements and secure transferring methods, and that expects to begin transferring covid nineteen case data this month that was rail and l. from the Mountain West News Bureau the California Gaming Association is calling on Governor Gavin Newsom to close tribal casinos. After the governor ordered a halt to all indoor activities in response to a spike in Corona virus infections. Casino Dot Org reports the Association Represents Owners of card rooms in the state, but not tribal gaming operations. It has argued the governor has the authority to shut down the casinos despite their sovereign status because of the public health emergency. The San Diego Times reports the Gaming Association pointed to a section in the State Gaming Compact with tribes that indicates gaming cannot be conducted in a manner that Endangers Public Health Fox, twenty six news reports officials with a choke chancy gold, resort and casino north of Fresno said they have no plans to close. For. National Native News I'm making camera. National Native News is produced by Broadcast Corporation with funding by the corporation for public broadcasting. Support by the Oscar Chambers law firm, championing tribal sovereignty and defending native American rights since hundred seventy, six with offices in Washington DC new, Mexico California and Alaska. Support by Aarp Tele townhalls, bringing you expertise and the latest information on the coronavirus pandemic from leading experts info on the latest schedule at eight, five, five, two, seven, four, nine, five, zero seven. Native voice one the native American radio network. This is native America. Calling I'm terribly. Would this year's kids count index from the any e.? Casey Foundation Rings New Mexico last among other states for education outcomes, the state consistently rakes at or near the bottom and assessments for education and children's well being in the inequities disproportionately affect native American students. A recent court decision affirmed New Mexico has not adequately addressed a two thousand. Thousand Eighteen Court order to find a solution for the problem. We'll get some perspective on that decision. Coming up in another case, the American Civil Liberties Union is suing the state's largest school district over an incident in which a teacher allegedly cut anita students hair and use an offensive term in the classroom. We'll get an update on that case from the ACLU and here from. From. One of the students so today we ask. Is there something to be learned from New Mexico's approach to public education? What can Mexico education officials learn from other states and anything you learned today or reflects what you're seeing in your own state. You can join us to. We are looking forward to hearing from you. Go ahead and give us a call. The number is. Is One, eight, hundred, nine, nine, six, two, eight, four, eight. That's also one eight, hundred, nine, nine, native, and joining us today from Albuquerque is Mackenzie, Johnson. She is a former Albuquerque public school student and a plaintiff in the lawsuit against the school district and many people, nor his Kinsey in Kinsey is Navajo Kenzi, thank you for joining us for another native America calling. Discussion. Are. Better known hi. Good to have you here and Kinsey welcome and thanks for joining us. Thank you for Writing Again End So Kinsey. Many people learn about your story and we've covered this in the past anything share about what has happened since you've less simple highschool and just your thoughts reflecting back on all of this. so I I left civil high school after my junior year and I moved to. Or I transferred to NOCCO and they had actually recently had do Kansas so I was to brandon campus. On like CNN was like a building also CNN main campus and It was like four stories high. Really cool like a huge agreed. But. Initially after the incident. I mean obviously there was the fact. I was kind of outcasted, but also I was. Like. I had a very close leash would say in the administration offices and. Just around my everyday peers and Others. Florida stores like. Felt like everybody was looking at me and then eventually it just turned to like people just talking about and. Totally, forgetting about it, but also remembering every day that those students who had with Eastern. Or like. Glaring at me or just bashing means somewhere, even if it was just any small Mike Regression towards me. And I well I dealt with that throughout the rest of the year, but after transfer. everybody caught on like everybody. KNEW or not everybody I guess almost everyone had had what I had experienced. And those who didn't ask them I transferred from on. They just put two and two together like. Oh, you're cans you're from. Different. It does just like yeah. I just said that. You know what I mean is like. You're that. You're that girl that happened like what was on the news with the teacher and everything I was like yeah. Like Oh. My God, like I'm so glad you're here or they say. like. What like are you okay or like that? So it was really inviting. They news really comforting, but is also like. There again. Everybody was looking at me not only because over new group was. They're also trying to figure out what kind of native I. Well I know. That is definitely a place where different nations come together and Kinsey. A lot of people heard about what you endured in for those who haven't anything you want to share about what it exactly. You faced in helmet you feel. Like what I faced like head-on were use a lot of. Judgments from? I guess people of all ages especially since I was in the public eye. Really, I guess I could. It was really. I can't really describe it. Open! It opened my mind. I guess in showed me that. There is always like good and bad parts to how this all turned out. Because of course, I'm here now like I'm talking to you guys bringing awareness to what? or how poorly APS and just schools in general handle indigenous issues, especially pertaining to the native American students. And staff who aren't native who are culturally aware. Like I I. Love that I'm bringing attention to because nobody really talks about it and if they do. They're getting pushed under the rug which? Isn't. It's not. It's never OK to do that. And I guess I'm really proud it's. Hans to have this voice in to have this supportive community, but also. Sorry doesn't cat he wants to go outside. In, Kinsey, I, think what a lot of people to what I've just heard is the awareness you are bringing to this and the type of school systems that are young people are facing. They need a second look and I think a lot of people. Were caused to just rethink and say okay. What kind of education are we giving to our youth? kind of environment. Are they being brought into? And when you hear that an educator's the one that put things into a compromising position a lot of things. Come up in McCain and Kinsey. I know you're here with us for the full hour, folks. There is anything you'd like to share with her. Maybe you heard her story. You'd like to talk to her. Go and give us a ring or phone lines are open, one, eight, hundred, nine, six, two, eight, four, eight, is number and Kenzi I. Just got to commend you. You on your your ability to come on and talk about this and I'm hearing some resilient in your story to in you are in a place that you feel comfortable as well in. Maybe you're in her new environment. You also want to share some thoughts. Go ahead and give us a ring. One, eight, hundred, nine, nine, six, two, eight, four, eight, also here, Albuquerque New Mexico. Is Preston Sanchez. He is the indigenous justice attorney for the American Civil Liberties Union of Mexico impressed in its Hamer's Laguna Pueblo and also day our pleasure to have him here for another one of our discussions Preston. Thank you for being here. Jake you abby me. And so Preston this all went to the courts, explain a little bit about What happened and where things currently stand? Well I just want to reemphasize some of the things that McKinsey mentioned. Which is that you know? This is really giving her a voice and a place to discuss. The systemic issues that many native American students are dealing with, but maybe don't have quite the platform to be able to express themselves in that way to the public and so. I. Commend Be Mackenzie Mackenzie. Forges being that person and being willing to speak about these issues and be so you know honest about it and also bravery was just. When I heard about the case, know it made me wonder what I have the courage to do what she did I. Don't think I could so I just want to commend her for that Secondly, I just want to say that I think it's important to acknowledge that I think everyone in. Everywhere values the public education system that. Respects and recognizes the culture and language of students of all students, and then the school system that doesn't discriminate against them, which is exactly what happened here and so with regard to this case for those out there who maybe don't know exactly what this case is about You know they were some. A scenario. teacher. was. Using this using her classroom to try to. Engage students in a learning activity that ultimately resulted in Mackenzie Bean. Described in a derogatory way that's derogatory towards native American students and one of the another student whose native American as well had her haircut by the teacher. And so those facts are pretty egregious, and so we have. Laws against it that prevent that type of activity to to occur in a in a classroom of for example this this case and really bringing about the New Mexico Human Rights Act, which prevents or protects any person in any public accommodation against unlawful discriminatory practices, because of who they are because of their race, because of their religion, because of their color, national origin ancestry etcetera. And so. The argument essentially is at a public accommodation, which is any, and I apologize for using legal jargon here, but this is just making sure that we're using the appropriate terms of public accommodation you establishment that provides or offers it, services, facilities, accommodations, or goods to the public. And so in this case defendant, the defendant which is the Albuquerque Public School district as well as the teacher who committed this act. That defendants are considered in our legal. And illegal framework a public accommodation so therefore this New Mexico New Mexico Human Rights Act should help resolve these issues both at APS level, but hopefully sends a message to the entire public school system and including the public. Education Department that discrimination against native American students will not be tolerated and so recently we had a the defendants had filed a motion to dismiss this case. That hearing was scheduled for yesterday at on July Sixteenth but that hearing was vacated meaning that it was canceled And so I don't want to speculate about the reasons for the they did but were hopeful that there will be another opportunity for to the judge to cheer the arguments on both sides of this case, and and that's really important. Just standing that where this currently stands in you know we are approaching a new school year. So where this will go, you know we're GONNA. Keep our eye on. Hang tight. We'll be right back. The season for many high school, and college, Basketball Football and other sports are going to look a lot different this year. Many schools have yet to decide how they're going to handle. What is an important activity for students and a strong social outing for fans? Join US for the next native America calling. We'll dive in to all of this. Support by AARP. Being connected is important now more than ever. You don't have to face this difficult time alone. AARP friendly voice makes it easy to stay in touch with others in your community. If you're feeling alone or know someone who is, you can use the AARP friendly voice program to ask for a phone call from an AARP volunteer. Monday, to Friday nine am to five PM. You can learn more by calling eight, eight, eight, two, eight, one, zero, one, four five. You're listening to native. America calling him Tara. Gatewood from Pueblo and we are talking about Mexico public schools today. If you have something similar going on in your area or just WanNa. Talk about how your State's public education system is serving Neva native students give us a call. The number to join us is one eight, hundred, nine, six, two, eight, four, eight on the line with us today out of Phoenix. Arizona is. Johnson she is a former Albuquerque public school student and a plaintiff in a lawsuit against the school district. She is Navajo our pleasure to have her here also on the line to is Preston Sanchez. He is the indigenous justice attorney for the American Civil Liberties. Union of New Mexico comes to us from Hamish's and the Guna Pueblos and he has also been. Our pleasure to have him here in Preston I turn it back to you. you were telling us where things currently stand, go ahead and finish up. Yeah, so the hearing in this case well just to. start up where I left off the. The the defendants in this case Albuquerque Public School district as well as attorneys for the teacher follow the motion to dismiss this case, so this hearing about this motion to dismiss was scheduled for yesterday July, sixteen That hearing was recently. Though meaning that it was canceled and so I don't WanNa speculate about the reasons for the hearing was vacated, but there's the possibility that the U that these arguments will be heard by the judge, and you know some particularly important that the judge understands the. Ramifications that this incident has not only had on Mackenzie, but what what message it sends to. Native. Students not only in New Mexico, definitely in New Mexico, but also throughout the nation and so That's where the case stands right now. In. What specifically decides asking for? The defendant's motion to dismiss and so that. This particular hearing is about trying to dismiss this case and you know we know that. We have strong legal grounds to continue to UH. Mitigate this case. And, so we're asking for the judge to maintain. Jurisdiction over the case and the case alive. Board into what do you feel that the Albuquerque? Public schools should have done in how they should have handled the situation. That's good question, so you know we. We know that this is a this education has been used historically as a weapon to eliminate the cultural identity of native Americans students. We know that to the boarding school. And all the way almost into two, Kerr, in times that we're dealing with now and so it's imperative that they is Public School District School district throughout Mexico fully understand that history. And unfortunately, despite repeated incidences and complaints. native American students or students of color APS continually subjected to race racially hostile climates. And so in this particular case, other APS could've taken many measures to prevent future arms from occurring address retaliation against native American students but unfortunately eight. The essence failed to do that and so You. Incidences not only prevent. gives us from Stephen an equal education, but they're dehumanizing and life altering. Mackenzie! It's been. Trying to describe her understanding of what happened. so we can, so the purpose of the case is really just to. Put an end to racial discrimination against all children with a particular emphasis. In this case on native Americans knew this imprisoned. What do you think about this case? During the times we're living in where a lot of systemic racism is being exposed. It's. Say It's relevant, but it's beyond that already i. mean these these issues that we are dealing with as native people have? have been ongoing for. Many many generations. And so It's a great time to sort of week for for the public, and for people at large sort of we think. Importance and significance of this incident and this case and to understand it. A racial lands and social justice plan that. This isn't just an isolated. Incident this incident that highlights a much bigger problem in New Mexico, public schools, schools today, and unfortunately those issues have not been addressed, and they are systemic, and they're deeply rooted in history and the history of inequality, and so it's time now. It's never before to address those. Issues. And there's another layer to some of this. We'll get into another case is involving or putting things into question when it comes to the type of education. Are you receiving? If you want to join us, go ahead and give us a call. One, eight, hundred, nine, nine, six, two, four, eight is the number. We're going to hear now from Linda. WHO's in Belcourt North Dakota to did on K. E. Y. A. Linda. Thank you for giving us a ring. Go ahead. You're on air. Hi Thank you for having me you know. I have so much respect for Mackenzie and hurts my heart that you had to go through some things and that a girl had her haircut. You know the reason I called. It brought up some hurt for me. My grandson is eighteen years old when he was like five and trying to go to school in Texas. He had long hair and they wouldn't let them go to school. Because of his long hair. And so my daughter kept him so nice and clean, and and put braids in him on him, and you look like a little chief. And I didn't understand what they're. His hair had to do with anything you know. Why would they want to cut his beautiful hair now? His hair as long now again, 'cause they did cut it at some point in his life, but as long again now and that means a lot to native people to have their hair, and what discrimination? These children phase in really hurts me, and that's basically what I wanted to say is that you know I can feel the pain because? discrimination because of someone's long hair. I didn't understand why in Texas that girls could have long hair, but not boys. You know what I mean I just thought that was kind of ridiculous. Will Linda thank you for reaching out? Thank you for sharing again. If you WANNA share, go ahead and give us a ring. One, eight, hundred, nine, six, two, eight, four, eight is the number Mackenzie anything you want to say to our caller. Are Thinking telling us your story I know that. It does strike a lot of people. Like hurt especially those who have experienced. The boarding schools because to us like hairs as sacred hair's very. Close to our cultural identity, so to have that happening like I'm so sorry. And? That has also hawking similar situation happened to my cousins. School here, but he. He graduated about a year ago, but he was in the newspaper because his school also discriminated against his hair. Even though. They didn't distract other lemons from learning it didn't. Hold him back from any of the studies didn't in no way in any form. Does it affect his education or the people around him? It just goes down to racial discrimination and. Just. Because they don't like seeing us. Strong and healthy is what I'm is what I'm thinking so In, Kinsey, when we were talking about the the details of the case in what the Albuquerque, Public School Deity in reaction I want to hear your thoughts to and folks. I. Do want to let you know that we did. Invite the Albuquerque. Public Schools to be on our program today. They declined that invitation. We also reached out to the New Mexico public. Education Department to be on. We did not hear back from them and so mackenzie any thoughts about how a PS should handle the situation. Play along three months of. Preston said. It's. It's really a matter of. Breaking down the walls of. Racism and Just overall just being culturally aware of everything and I feel like the way they handled it. Bears so many other ways that it could have been handled in one way. There could have what I wanted. I advocated towards Lee administered to have. A An assembly or some kind of. Some kind of actually an something on what happened or just a simple announcement would have been. Great to, but they didn't go to those lengths just something as simple as an announcement over the. Intercom see hey like. Were were sorry the same. The shouldn't happen again like re promising from happening again and not just face to face. To everybody so so they can learn that what had happened? Really hurt us because it's not. I'm not the only native American. There's there's also a native American teachers there's. A lot of native American students, they are so. It's just basically really disrespectful and like. I felt like it was a spit in the face that they didn't feel like. We deserve that type of. Simple. Gesture. Of respect towards us. Because once I advocated for that. They. I felt like. I was looking at them with like a whole bunch of. They to me. They look like puppies with their tail between their lakes because they were afraid that. Of the repercussion or saying something wrong, when even saying just? A simple word could have. Made US do. Better I guess, but not entirely could have done as much as they could. Well Like Assembly as small as Not Small but like. Advocating for. Like bullying. So I. DON'T UNDERSTAND WHY. In a minority dominated state while they wouldn't address something like this. In terms of like bullying for. Like I guess. Just being straight of races like they could've used a mike hey like. Just know that we should will on native land. And we should respect the people who. have been here long before us. So, We for Halloween. We are not to give up as Pocahontas. We're not to just as Like historically significant figures. That may be. Seen as I forgot the word. Offensive. I. Want more so so you're. You're seeing on one aspect. You see them doing good work. But when it came to this specifically especially acknowledging things that are offensive to native Americans, they fell short. What do you think? What do you think about what you're hearing from this student? In what she endured, you can join us. One, eight, hundred, nine, nine, six, two, four, eight, is the number with today out of Santa, fe New Mexico is Regis Paco's. He is the CO founder and Co director the Santa Fe. Indian School Leadership Institute. He's also a former governor of Kochiegi Pueblo, my pleasure to have him here governor. Paco's thank you for joining us for another native America calling. Get more good morning. And thank you for having me on I. Just want to reflect quickly on McKenzie's. Story it is. Unbelievable. That the largest public school district in the state of Mexico with one of the largest native American population. COULD BE ARGUING TO DISMISS A king. Rather than embracing the president. Of well-documented institutional racism for many many years. It is as unbelievable as the state of you Mexico's. Filing a motion to dismiss a landmark decision in Martinez Yahtzee. just a few weeks ago. It is some believable in light of the legislature. Attempting and past the establishment of a civil rights commission to deal with these kinds of violations that occur. All too often and other time when the legislature is entertaining, holding state agencies to deal with in statistical racism at a time when the governor of the state of new. Mexico is establishing a console on racial justice while she attempts. To filed this motion that she lost to dismiss a landmark decision. That everyone speaks to as the classic example, the State of education failure. To address the fundamental needs of children of color in a state that has a majority minority populations. That she could move to establish a council. To deal with racial justice. But in the next breath. Shall Lintz dismiss our landmark decision like Martinez Yazdi APS. Falls within that same realm afford is believable. Despite at a time when the but lives movement is shedding illuminating light on how the magnitude of what is called a disease. In. America is resulting in the deterioration and and the loss of trust and confidence. Of policymakers to do what is no longer testing their political will or like in our case with Martinez Yazdi decision. It no longer is the legal test. But it now moves into a realm of checking the barometer of the health of the morality of policy makers in our state, and in our nation. It is just totally unbelievable that this is happening in in a state like ours, and I just want to say to you Mackenzie how much courage and leadership that you represent that it's really a microcosm that unless we do and make the necessary changes to the environment, which in ninety percent of all of our children are subjected to. With. Only two percent of all teachers teaching our native children to be native themselves. We leave? Young people like Mackenzie who represents literally thousands of native children in the public school system. To be their own advocate in a system that is now openly one indicted to have this disease that is referred to as the stomach racism. It's unbelievable. Be Having this discussion when the Washington football team has been compelled to retire lots and offensive name and the stereotype that come from that that one seat into the classrooms here. The kind of language that our president utilize this that really perpetuate that kind of Racism on that scale is really unbelievable, and and all of the good things that over the years that tribal leaders and state leaders have developed to build a foundation and a framework that is most positive and I would say represent some of the best examples of. Working towards the mutual benefit, the rider in Regis you know, thank you for bringing all this out will continue right after this. Support by southwestern Indian Polytechnic. Institutes Early Childhood Education Program Providing an affordable pathway for the next generation of native teachers who will meet the unique educational needs of native students sippy early childhood education. Associates degree is an all inclusive program with mentorship for success in education in an intertribal learning community, Info and application. That S I P I dot e., D. U. under academics, then programs fall application. Deadline is August seventh. Thanks for wrapping up your week with us here on native America Calling Tara Gatewood and we are talking about education school systems. How much of what you've heard so far reflects what happens in your own community in your own state. Go ahead and give us a call. One, eight, hundred, nine, nine, six, two, eight, four, eight, is the number one more needs to be done to make schools. Schools more welcoming for native students, and of course. If you're a teacher, call us and share your thoughts on our topic today. We'd like to hear from you as well. One, eight, hundred, nine, six, two, eight, four, eight, is the number. Let's go ahead and take a call. We Got Tony in Albuquerque New Mexico listening in on key. UNM Tony Thank you for calling. You're on the air. Hi there I'm a teacher here in Albuquerque and over the time I've been a teacher. I've always tried to make. My students feel welcome. Regardless of who they are and safe and at the beginning of the school year, teachers rape es have to watch a lot of videos and go through a lot of Professional Development about everything from handling money to identifying sexual abuse and stuff like that. I was wondering what can teachers like me? Who wants to really make sure? We're taking care of her native students why? Can we do to be extra sensitive? Right Tony and thank you for asking also here with us today as reaches Paco's, he is the CO founder and Co. director of the Santa. Fe Indian School Leadership Institute. He comes to us from coach Pueblo. He's in Santa Fe. Today Regis to to you any thoughts for Tony. Sure I'd I really appreciate you know? Teachers who really are are sensitive and what to do the right thing you know. One of the things that is late out in the findings and Martinez, Yahtzee is the lack of this kind of support for teachers, and so one of the major recommendations in the larger transform education. You Mexico if this multicultural framework that. For you know the ongoing waste of state support for teachers to be able to have access to experts who can guide them and become even deeper in their understanding and awareness to do the right things in embracing children from all walks of life, and I think in this larger remedy framework that we've worked on. This is one of the. Major Element is recognizing as the court did the lack of the kind of relevance in curriculum, the lot of the kind of comprehensive say support that when higher institution of Education in their preparation of teachers won't failed to provide. teachers who are GonNa go in the classroom with the largely children of color to have the skills to have the tools to have the kind of cultural competency. If you will it's exactly the callers desire to have more of that, and that is one of the central points to this multicultural framework in one, providing for the kind of preparation for teachers, but then to also create a sustained support for those teachers in the classroom and I really appreciate the caller desire. To have access to these resources, and this is part of one of the major effort of the larger coalition Transform Education New Mexico. And hopefully it's an area that it's going to be fully supported by the legislature to support not ten years from now, but to be able to provide for the kind of institutionalization in a place like aps where the knee with the numbers of children who are culturally and linguistically blasted. We say have teachers who have the skills and the tools with which. they can embrace an enhanced the learning opportunities, so thank you so much caller for your questions all right Tony. Thanks for giving us a ring. We now go to Kaitlin who is in Cheyenne, river? In south. Dakota tuned in on Ip Aikman. Thank you for giving us a ring. Go ahead. You're on the air. Hi. Hi I'm from China and I just graduated, but in my four years I've been to about three different schools and on my sophomore year it was a public school. And I just want to talk about our first of all. I want to admire McKay McKenzie's bravery. They're all of that because my pub. They're still teachers there. That would just make you. Like, well as we as Americans just feel bad about being who I was. And so. But I didn't I try not to let bring me down and I would just encourage all my other friends like where ribbon skirts. You know like speaker language in. Do we We have hanging pub there and so I try to drink gin and. Make gotten or try to get a gun message cross Intel and like it's okay to be who you are, and then it doesn't help that like. Sometimes in our tribal schools we have. Our own students who bring us down like our own fellow. Relatives who brings down. And it's it's not okay and I wish I had her bravery to have more of a voice and to voice what I could. My last three years. But. It's just. It's it's crazy to hear how it's all over the country, and it's not just in one place like it's. It's crazy to hear that. And Yeah I just want to admire bravery for seeking up I. Wish Me. At that age the I had done that But you know now I'm just like telling all my friends and I'm helping them learn their language and learning with them. and. I really try hard to teach I teach my siblings that it's okay to be who you are like it is. You should be proud of who you are. Yeah, well, Caitlin. I want to acknowledge your bravery for calling in and sharing and letting this student know that she's not alone in that. You've seen this and seeing that you're encouraging others. That's a good thing. You're part of this strong circle Caitlyn. Thank you for giving us a ring Mackenzie. Johnson is here with us to a former Albuquerque public school student in a plaintiff in the lawsuit that we've been discussing Mackenzie anything. You WanNa tell Caitlin. Oh Heck Yeah. All. Late. I understand the microaggressions that can occur within our own communities as well because. They're they're not really educated on the matter and some of them are afraid to speak up because. What has happened to them in the past they may have had. Repercussions of? The boarding schools and what they taught them so? I. So I, just big old. Thank you to you because you voiced out what I wanted to say as well. Thank you. Thank you for that? I really I. Really Appreciate It, Gatling, thank you for giving us a ring and Regis, turn to you as well co-director Indian School Leadership Institute, and so this case, Yahtzee Martinez in some of the back, and forth I know in twenty eighteen. There are a lot of people here in Mexico in and around the country to who are seeing this landmark decision. There was a lot of celebration, and then there was a moment where this got put back on the table, and then there was more celebration on the recent decision. Talk to us about what happened recently in the courts. Terra you know when and I have to one acknowledged Preston. 'cause he was the only native American attorney on the legal team, and is now leading this effort in his new role AC L. View, but. With that landmark decision there were great one expectation with the governor and the new administration that all of the tribes unquote. Blow support it. and it's really that thing to to say that those dreams. have been shattered literally because what we saw on June twenty nine was the governor supported by the tribes and Pueblos One moving forward with a motion to dismiss. But. It also represented a time when representative Derek, lengthy WHO's young Pueblo attorney has literally figuratively put. All of the tribal nations tried to leaders the community the children on his back. and has literally been the champion moving this whole thing forward. He led an effort for sixteen members of the House of Representatives one site onto a letter, protesting and disagreeing and opposing the governor smooth in her motion to dismiss. And of course on June twenty nine, there was a second celebration and a victory when unprecedented in these kind of litigation and hearing that the new judge reprieve replacing the late judge Sarah Singleton judge. Watson ruled from the bench to deny the motion to dismiss. which now puts us back into a position going back on the offensive in moving forward an unprecedented tribal remedy framework, addressing the findings allying with the Ozzy Martinez decision, but as we move just a couple weeks after that decision into an unprecedented special session to deal with the budget, brought on by the pandemic. That in this special session. Represented lengthy with the support of the speaker of the House with the support of the majority floor, leader and a emerging and rising boy of advocate in the legislature sponsor. A non binding legislative house memorial. One publicly disagreeing with the with the. With the governor smooth on this motion to dismiss so that was a huge statement, and as a result of that kind of shift in the political dynamic. even as we are one bewildered by this kind of continue moves towards the non support by the administration on the Public Education Department, incidentally the only native highest ranking native American person who was Deputy Secretary who founded the native American Community Academy Akara Barbara has now left. And since the new administration came into play, there has been no appointment of an assistant secretary of the Indian. Education Department as called for statutorily so while there is great disillusion mass bewildering decision meant and sense of betrayal on the part of tribal leaders who opposed the governor publicly There is a beginning of a paradigm shift and I really think it comes with representative lengthy and the native American Legislative Caucus and the support of the speaker of the House and the House majority leader that is now resulting in representing lengthy, becoming a former member of one of the critical interim committees of the Legislative Education Study Committee. As voting member now giving voice to this effort and the likelihood and the possibility when the opportunity come to be a voting member now an advisory member on the legislative finance committee so while there has been disappointment great, that's appointment by the administration lack of support in this landmark decision, the shift is happening within the legislative body, and it really is coming predominantly from the incredible leadership and courage by Representative Derek lengthy. Who the tribal. Leaders have been supporting and so we're now into the interim yesterday, and the day before was the first to interim committee hearing, and for the first time out of the gate, the tribal remedy framework that was developed by the the Pueblos and the try. with a legislative package one. Has Been The center of Public discourse very early on very early in this process sold with that kind of movement and momentum coming from the legislative body. I think there is A. Evolve INSENT. cautious hopefulness that we may be entering a different set of dynamics shifting to the legislature for their support and forcing in a constructive way, the governor and the Public Education Department to move in a direction that is working together to address undeniably What the state has now admitted that the state of Education is the result of a long history of. systemic racism that create new back Sokoto to be the lowest in academic achievement. one of the highest in poverty, one of the highest in hunger, one of the highest in health disparities and one of the highest in youth suicide, so all of the indicator of the worst reflection of these stomach failures in education is manifesting into the kind of vulnerabilities that in this pandemic it has been Whiteley exposed the cost of this kind of neglect, and that cost comes with a disproportionate number of. Of Our people dying, and this proportionate number of hotspots that come from Navajo nation from public communities largely because of the increase vulnerabilities and at the center we have to one identified that the circumstances of our reality and the conditions largely come from the failures in education that manifest into all of these vulnerabilities that continue to haunt the failures of education. last year was the fiftieth anniversary of the Kennedy report. and. We are at the end. Some have you wrap rapid up? Go ahead. No as delusion as we are sometimes in our struggle we continue to maintain the spirit of hopefulness to fill our sacred trust to the wellbeing of our children, and and that's where I like to end and thank you for having us to give you this update. and we're hopeful that we will continue on a positive path to follow the footsteps of our forefathers. Thank you very much. Regis Paco's also think. Think you to McKinsey Johnson and Preston Sanchez. That's going to wrap it up for our program today. We're back on Monday with a conversation about sports. What is changed because of the pandemic, and of course what about in our school systems as well? Thank you for tuning in. Thank you to our crew here. A native America calling a native voice, one a national native news I'm Tara Gatewood will meet you here on Monday. Smoking gave me COPD which makes it harder and harder for me to. Have a tip for you. If your doctor gives you five years to live, spend it talking with your grandchildren explained to him that your Grandpa, not gonNa be around anymore to share his wisdom and his love. I am figured out how to do that yet. I'm running out tire. COPD makes it harder and harder to breathe and can cause death. You can quit for free help. Call one eight hundred quit now a message from the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention. Yet the Indian Health Service knows oncle to issue an amber. No, his uncle eighteen hits eastbound high-energy icy GIG. Johansen accordia onto your. Stolen the. On hiatt art on the best on not nonetheless up and again I the best seasons and go healthcare DOT Gov. Elise business case be attend, Arctic. One, eight, zero, zero, three, one, eight, two, five, nine, six, a message from the Centers for Medicare and Medicaid Services. Native America calling is produced in the. National, native Voice Studios in Albuquerque New Mexico by Quantum Broadcast Corporation and native nonprofit media organization. Funding is provided by the corporation for public broadcasting with support from the public radio satellite. Service Music is by Brent. Michael Davids. Voice Native American Radio Network.

Albuquerque Mackenzie Mackenzie Mexico America Preston Sanchez New Mexico attorney Tara Gatewood Public Schools Regis Paco Kinsey New Mexico Education Department Pueblo legislature Albuquerque Public School dist Indian School Leadership Insti National Native News
S7 E2 KATHERINE KNIGHT MURDER CASE | TRUE CRIME HORROR PODCAST

Stories Philippines Podcast

42:28 min | 6 months ago

S7 E2 KATHERINE KNIGHT MURDER CASE | TRUE CRIME HORROR PODCAST

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I mean my story Anima Murder Cases. Nah Nah Pero. Tele go gruesome young now on the bill saying you might be sick dot done look like an IRA deter ninety report. Guinean or lethal and so so anything by me got in Vasu to underline the Over five nine hundred fifty five two new South Wales Mall Tail Channel Scandalous Affair. Between your mother Barbara and fun and their father. Ten night fun of voice met night through her former husband so body. Find us out when that that guy willingness own so any mother so listen Majali Peroxy so when their secret came to light the conservative down there. So you own monkeying allegation. Buying View Margaret Move People Times a day on the lighter. Sav also claims that. She was sexually assaulted by several family members. Jumping Evan that involved so Night was known as a bully Theorized smaller than than for three year later. She landed her dream job. Slugger House cutting out the Or identify finding myself in Bahrain. No kinetically and thought he'd be shine. Family Dream job is Up I n Para Medicine shown degree are going on In by about is not the bottom of this thing doing anymore baron Jamaica pocket duchesne going. Because they didn't mugging underscored or not at all or an adult thirty Kakai. Any single sign not England as our tweets so he and elegant so all all of her life's ago Taliban miserably senior party. You up at the top of several times a day so yeah and boyfriend. What the victory. Oh on the boyfriend. Yeah but I'm making money. Turns living in Louisiana. Get nothing 'cause my I guess the gala of as I've been Well Working Dow Shing. The butcher shop night met David Kelly. I raging alcoholic much like her father who was prone to fistfights when Edberg for thirty percent itself. So I don't see John Kelly do Kunsi David Dindo own John Yang by Gero. I wire free no one button again boyfriend. So in nineteen or in nineteen seventy four. She convince him to marry her getting into power and he was heavily intoxicated that the empire time and her mother. You've been warned him about her. Daughter's than poor okay. Saying that night had a screw loose somewhere soap on now manage money and me things. They got that in An army as though made the league and Melilla no way so underrating big night then girly gala. Haley shelter consummate their marriage the names or pay the consummated their marriage. You know and Now though I wouldn't Done this is just GonNa in an Lilla Nagy gardening DVD's Butler Service Would you are no when he fell asleep at the c? Sinai is by though little issue with her new husband's premature exhaustion and start to strangle him so issues. Spotty off the there were some issues. I knew now. Based on a Monday barrel issued pardons so he started to strangle him snarl. Oh Oh Kelly develop a had a nasty habit for being unfaithful so happy and once even left his wife fender two daughters and still in the lower in the middle of the night pilot. An Oh my hobby Lombardo. Gone Aguilo Shamma gardening activities that you've discovering one Kelly's affair at the nine night please. Their two month old infant born railway line Mattino by Baby Miller L. A. Knows re than an hour and there's a of being released in them and then threatned several people we this arts yen question. I know I know any accent ago. by the holy on and then she was diagnosed. We both need depression. After witnesses saw her violently pushing and swinging her second child in a stroller down. Abc Street Allah finally Annoying Stroller number. That was on here but mcgann on the menu. And Get Papa no pattern we gateway on the by buying new younger Gary. Talk night when she was released from the hospital. So you go to on your accent surrealism. Making delicious man pal or without their union didn't last long and night went through a period of deep distress after Kelly finally left her so the relationship saw a sherry now make allowances guru gun but when I sit next next spoil it because the Democrats are great ending up with the Mosey l. the the lead Founders David Saunders. After her break up with Galley night jump into real win romance with David Sanders Alot. I'll minor by three a few months after me. The sounders moved in with her and her daughters. Well and examine de la going umbrella however you get his apartment in night became incredibly gel loose in suspicious about what he when she wasn't around Jay laws. Get an anomaly. Snowing one point. She's lied he thought of his old being in in front of him. Just the show watching. What's April off? You only police in on me in Boban Ya Canal. We knew it was gonNA stay by a still stayed together and you've been had adulterer year late their own a current. Oh poor gardening. I O ever Sunders left night shortly after the because shut attempted to kill him with a pair of St source buy nothing mead Toyota. The sounders Mama got the midnight show up all the also the anyone three show this alarming and Miller at the next I e after you one tim. Did anyone go elegant the Ginza mental animal on depression so Lalanne Rochelle now Lucien depress so your knee glow anex. Nah Nah at the last night. And your net. I thought all C. C. Sir John Chilling were now. I believe the pylon chilling now so those though she then met a man named John Cheating words together for three years and had the child they own pattern for three years since he got him up by Birmingham three years. I'm buying nothing at all. I Laugh Eric Your Nights I son so you put out there. You seminar previews gardening. Dvd's so well. No violent incidents have been reported about their relationship all while stay strong and it would end after chilling words learned. That night was having an affair with a man named John Prince I John Price. So punish is up on the voice. Biddle violent incidents in relation choice was buying in the panthers l. The neon Leila relationship. But I saw the beginning of the night and prices relationship was without any complication so by these two though he had two older children who live with him and seemed. I thought see. Nra balance during Mr Price Laffy enough or now enormous Molina will live with him and seemed to like so maggots. Two hundred thirty and unelected stepmother Ono and and he made enough money as a minor took her comfortable We're GONNA number. Why however when she suggested they marry at their. Nah Just Mary as our into see John. Tilling word against Nisha multiple. The intelligence lobby in the League said yes delivered Mr Genteel inward own. However when they suggested the Mary he declined and at the night she turned violent. So smoothness more I see at the e Mr Bryce Gubbay I know featuring yet mcnabb how Mumbai gay got out binding. Yeah in fired. So may I ask for my talk about her? Oh no no no. You're an dial though Now I'm bunny your that the Bible and he got up again gates now so in China that on the Welland. Apathy said it'll always gonNA bottom master. He may see in the ocean admit loan while they so I didn't got in Diane Dunes incident in No another by Sonya and though he initially kick her out a few months later the started seeing each other again and there are no Seca. Jen's lovers in Paris and however this time he refused to let her move back in so spittle in India be not by Neela. Mr Jan Teething Word Donna. Nab and get this story and a peculiar stopovers at the ecosystem owning Mattino February. Two thousand boy. Who's obviously we would love peacefully. Not Allow legal name those guy. Will you see them now? Now though you stub suggest doing out night listening order again Sir Internet his choose didn't save so uncoupling. Esta training order in an alone. Byron. Shaw and all these social distancing yet at the end of the month Bracelet Annette. New Concern for safety and discover all workers that if he ever went missy. Dial Day ninth. Nah Dana Champion alive. Moves me Mr Bryce. Nah The companionship. So by Y'all see me got during nine or nine thousand long. Last twenty years ago do they. Oh about an hour. Now the okay. He's a gay policy so the bratty twenty nine ear but the author so more Halloween. Anthony Mr Vice that to sell work DAPO suit the mission legal Blah and Asia Ghunsa trauma not making the Dow Gardening the-these by say and making good on that will cigar Knife FROM NEXT DOOR BED APPLES MR place on third this. I've been thanks so our Halloween only restart placing a wounded Wa La that was it making people Nine let's start this. I've been aims base Kepala Se. See we'll see Mr. He got the boy. So you eventually guys at the Pylon Manoa potential off now. I will or do so you eventually succumbed to his wounds. The Governor Shannon Monday Oregon. Initia- see Mr Price Story as Bobby Knight being bashes done an Hia Napa Post Panam era at at the by. You'll connect up a one. C now bit NASA meet who leaving room Nila charming Thank you must've been using meet open so not you see is what they don't buy mcgahan. Metex. Five they were. They were being lottery house now. Ain't nobody gives you an update. You need love you. Never I know US Lavazza. Fini garbage splash juggling the the. Let me me. Lhasa declined you. Go on the but was being only beginning. Bgn's for the full divine up. Boy they name game also union show Biz ago. Somebody Must Asia signal path Picnic Hannah Onion pedals go to ashes on sophomore unknown. Nothing fashioned police lie they would only add it all workers new motto Brownie. Mr Place Bobby Lena's Bin Laden condition that we should be in making our night the next morning when the heat doesn't mean we serve so you must. Bonia demanded them police Bosso by nine Bonilla now. Eight that modding on us on your Liguori Gwen see Mr Vice physically buying so on Mojo nine nine and police this thing this claim seen on I got south of Lake Superior Overdose. Now overdose done you know so easing on listeners. Thought on the eastern chess being not Allah longer being young out doing nine shop show Panama police of each in h and unlawfully you all Napa Stove in the only on on the rush took boy. I always watch Bob Way. Over the course of a sobral knows that the mandate that plateau now may land young up hold on for low minimum wage though boiling in the beach boys only boarding and money on and so they've been doing find you. Police amazed police. Being Lonnie You Mung Anoc. Nila served nine loss. Mcdonald's just lose among those are nothing Mister Vice In Yeah not the one in Mr Place among on Never beat list. Despite her claims that she had no recollection of the nights price of the night. That price died got. That night was charged with kice murder. Charge spotting shot. I cannot not know what I show by giving your pa. Are you in October of two thousand one her trial comments but it didn't get very far e. So is still unknown to they throw night Jane Chirpy guilty and the judge adjourned the case without testimony. An initial guilty cigarettes in again now as up on any and She was escorted the reason that they and the judge ordered. That her papers be marked. Never the beauty list for the first time in history. A woman in Australia as Australia's Ila Okay Guy. Also you'll be I n Was giving a life sentence without parole history by off by by being Unin been thrown up the wash off. The west of feeding sentence given the night stabbed her boyfriend thirty seven themes skinned his buddy and parts of being us through that she intended to serve to his children in the they. Were this got thirty. Nine still maintains her innocence and refused of responsibility for her actions. Night has up lead. Her sentence before was denied. Almost immediately animosity going no that she still serving life sentence. I silber water women's Correctional Center so guys if nothing bow he's gathering night boy in Shang on. I think he knew post today. Leo So if Mehinovic Kyla We're not intending to anything alarm engages my because he's sensitive topic nuttal with all due respect the Indians Limbs victims so for information elegant elegant without in it though BICA bustle vinnie features through the main purpose. Not Mandate this about this. So Brown gruesome gruesome. Don't Sean you either. So are you guys been six. Low senior washing. Wigan tangible means in finding bowel symphonic work my dope automobile permission both Famous Not Minneapolis. So Oh so I hope you. Mahim mcnutty new beginning justice in the beginning Monday golden unjust. Humana give and I hope you ain't got suggest Gay Guy. School may my goose bio feature deter demise stories. And so you We seek out or wrestling featured mutual. Welcome non say reading a nutrients on upcoming episode Hunan so he's not guessing on technical difficulty now on my bad Spanos guatantee Napoleon so good Mongo. We combine no MA massage. Omit Thirteen you. Speaking of improvement You Got Support Jun Kasai. Youtube Channel Happen And the the monthly support from Lena my equipment or game I get it. I WON'T BE ON MY game off so I hope it complements that episodes season when an improvement on this. So you start escape Delaney lands. I think facebook or Instagram Stories Philippines podcast and Papa. Social Media Shooting and then. Youtube been spotify Megapolis. Gummy the Cinema Gum upload every three. Am Six PM to midnight out. Yeah so who out an ally but the line message I think along is again next episode out. The shop. Subscribe since I took before non-serbs types of treatment and knitting but the US Amora upcoming episode full man. I thought McDonnell Noon subscribe Nyayo Bottom Michelle them and day or someone episodes not Fussy Paul and enter next exit my by Apple.

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12-20-19 A conversation with Cheyenne Kippenberger

Native America Calling

59:00 min | 11 months ago

12-20-19 A conversation with Cheyenne Kippenberger

"Wipe Welcome to native America. Calling from studio forty nine in Albuquerque. I'm Tara gatewood every year. Dozens of native women from the US and Canada come together in the nation's Powell to compete for the title of Miss Indian world. Giant Cabin Burger currently holds the title and is the first seminole nation member to have it. Today we'll chat with her about raising awareness on mental health issues and promoting positive portrayals of native Americans. Join us for this discussion. Shen right after the news This is national native news. I'm Antonio Gonzales. Those blocking road access to mount a KFC their position to protect the sacred site from construction of the thirty meter telescope has not changed after Hawaii. Governor David Ige announced Thursday. The state plans to remove law enforcement as early as Friday in in a video message. Posted to social media leaders amount of K. protectors expressed skepticism calling the move at tactic by officials to try to force them off the road. They've been camped in the area for more than five months and vowed to stay as long as it takes to prevent construction an elementary school principal from Bethel a Yupik a bit community in Alaska was charged this week for crimes against children Ky.. UK reports a federal grand. Jury indicted Chris Carmichael on four charges including incursion enticement of a minor possession of child pornography and attempted transferred obscene material of a minor Carmichael. who was fired? This week is accused of inappropriate touching a female student and sending sexual messages to a minor who was actually an undercover agent. The fifty five year old is in custody in Anchorage expected to appear in court Friday opponents of the keystone xl pipeline are concerned about worker camps. And the safety of native women at a South Dakota water-management board hearing Thursday. A project supervisor responded to concerns Victoria wicks reports. Greg tensor is the project execution manager for the keystone he's the XL pipeline. He says although women have made strides in construction men will dominate. This pipeline workforce tensor says eight of the camps for in Montana and Foreign South Dakota Code could hold up to twelve hundred workers at a time yanked in Sioux tribe lawyer Jennifer Baker asked him about a common concern that women might be victims where large numbers of men Dan Gather. Are you aware that human trafficking is a problem in areas. That have accounts. I've heard about it up in North Dakota where they have more oil field old tensor works for one of the many contractors. TC employees and he says contractors also hire the Laborers Baker expresses concern that TC. The energy won't be accountable for workers behavior. tensor replies that workers answer to contractors but contractors answered T- see everybody must have a badge in order to be on the camp and they must go through a card reader at the gate with the security guard before they come on site tensor says no visitors are allowed in the camps unless they're vetted the camp security is it possible that any of the workers will be sex offenders registered sex offenders background check that preclude them from working part of the back inject those convicted sex offenders are not permitted to work on the pipeline. Is that right yes Tanzer says. TC hopes to start. Construction in March and worker camps won't go up up until then I'm Victoria. Wicks students are competing in sports academic and cultural events at the LAKOTA nation. Invitational taking places week in rapid city. South Dakota Oughta the event boosts the local economy and has China Locker reports. Plans are to expand Brian Brewer founded the La and is currently on the board of directors. He's he says. The expansion is beneficial for the event. You can't growing more facilities here. We have to tell a lot of our schools we. We don't have enough room. They can't bring teams or something like that this year. More than twenty five hundred students are participating from about five states. Bureau wants to see that number grow with the space. We're going to expand to twenty four basketball teams and we have a waiting list right now. So we're really hoping that we'll be able to give those other schools in opportunity to Gorkhas says expanding the Ellen. I will likely boost revenue to the rapid city economy though China lock it. I'm Antonio Gonzalez from the national. Native News is produced by Qantas Broadcast Corporation with funding by the corporation for public broadcasting lasting support by Pritam much inviting you to the two hundred our intertribal historical trauma masterclass twenty twenty to learn a body based approach to trauma reconciliation. There is no charge training for tribal members. Registration deadline is March. Second at Freedom Lodge dot fork support for law and justice related programming provided by. Hobbs Strauss Dean and Walker Walker L. L. p. a national law firm dedicated to promoting and defending tribal rights for more than thirty years. More information available at Hobbs Strauss Dot Com uh native voice one the native American radio network. This is native America calling. I'm Tara Gatewood. Before the reigning Miss Indian world. Xiuyin Kippenberger woke up one morning and decided she needed to do something to get out of her comfort zone for for her. The choice was to run for Miss Florida seminole in two thousand eight. She ran and won although she still had her doubt. She decided to keep going and compete eight in the Indian world pageant during the gathering of nations this year as she prepared herself She thought where will this take me. She started by sewing dresses and practicing her talent of demonstrating traditional seminal hairstyle she still struggled with anxiety she ultimately overcame that and triumphant try and came to the top winning the best interview best talent and ultimately the title of Miss Indian world. Today we're going to visit. Is it with her about her journey to hold this prestigious title and what her plans are for the future do you remember that moment when she was crowned Miss Indian world. Maybe you had at a chance to see some of the traditional talent and saw her explanation of a part of her culture and right now it is my honor to welcome. Cheyenne Kippenberger Burger. The two thousand Nineteen Twenty Twenty Miss Indian world to Studio forty-nine here she's an enrolled member of the seminole tribe of Florida our pleasure to have her here Cheyenne Ryan welcome and feel free to further. Introduce yourself or say hello to the listeners. Thank you good morning to hint to hold you get shea angled them yet. Get to shadow coach of Gay Dot Com In my language I introduced myself and my English name Shan and my indy name was given to me by my grandmother and it is thick and in my language that translates to fire in. Cheyenne something. That is really coming forward with all. This is how important culture is because it was does your culture That brought you to this place as well as Reminded you that. How important is that we talk about it? We share it and so tell me a little bit about what Miss Indian world means to you and keeping culture alive being Miss World is one. It's an honor you you know getting to hold that title until where that Crown and sash go around you know not just Indian country here in the states but anywhere in the world you know you. You Represent All native and indigenous people. You are that platform to uplift their voices. You know to to shed light on things that AH normally wouldn't get that attention and so you know getting to be in this position. It's it's a little intense sometimes. But it's empowering powering like it really makes me feel like I can do anything and I could do anything for my people at that you know but I think it's also really important that people bono that this title isn't something that you know. I myself and like women in the past have done. You know to wear this crown and sash and say I'm just missing in world. You know we do it cause we love our people. We love our people. We love who we are. We love our culture and we love sharing and we love learning about other people's cultures cultures as well and that's what being missing in world is about in so for you. Why did you want to step into this position? What did it mean to you? That title Miss Indian world. Even before you started running you know at. I feel like you mentioned in my little bio it was. I was really hesitant. I was really scared and I went through this really kind of dark place with myself where I was questioning my worth and if I was a good representative if if I could go out there and do my people well but ultimately I got to the the end notion that who gets to say they ran in the museum world pageant. Like how many girls have you ever met that. Really get to say that and so to me. It wasn't even about winning or having the title itself. It was more about the experience I was so excited. I had never been to albuquerque before and I thought you know what I had such a good experience variance in my journey with Miss World or miss. Excuse me Miss. Florida seminal and I was so proud of the work that I do and I thought if I if I am deemed worthy enough to hold this title I'm GonNa give it my all and giving him. I also meant you know in the preparation process that journey into going into the pageant as well you had to give it all and it was beautiful. It was a really Big growing experience going into the pageant as well as the pageant week so I really enjoyed all of it and You know the sisterhood. That was built through it. The bonding that you get to do in the next exciting you know. You're like crying about the ex boyfriend you had in sixth grade with the other girls and it's just funny there's but there's a lot of memories behind all of it and all of it is the foundation of you know being proud of who we are as indigenous women in so there were thousands of people watching you know the competition competition as well as that moment when you were crown. What was going through your head when you heard you were gonNA hold that title? Oh Man I was was praying. I was praying so hard. If you've watched that video you kind of see me looking down. And I'm just praying and you know not to win or anything like that. It was is to kind of put my gratitude onto the universe. I was so thankful for how great my experience was you know. Of course it gets intense and moments and we get overwhelmed wellm because you know there's so many things going on and it's a tight schedule but the experience was so magnificent like I felt so many good things I had all these interactions actions with different people that I would have never met unless I decided to run in this pageant and overall I felt like I needed to I needed to think everything everything and everyone that kind of led up to that point and so after they finish announcing all the bass categories. I'm sitting there and I'm looking down and I was just going through my list. Like thank you to Albuquerque. Thank you for you know the girls that were competing with me. Thank you for my family being here. Thank you for my friends being here. Thank you to my community members. That are here where he you know but thank you to like my ancestors. Thank you to the spirits that are with me. And next thing you know when I heard representing the SEM that was all layered in the waterworks. Just started and I was just started bawling my eyes out and turned around and I looked at my family. I was just like I did it like yeah I really did this. And it was an overwhelming feeling of not just gratitude but I was proud of myself really really proud of myself delve in a little bit more about really the mountain that you overcame 'cause dealing with anxiety is not an easy thing and especially putting yourself right there in the middle of you know thousands of is on you Because there are people who do face a lot of anxiety and they aren't able To always as you know be able to do something like that and you you really. You really did something not only for yourself but I think to encourage others Who face some of this any thoughts about that? Oh Oh yeah I mean. I really struggled with mental health all through high school and college and leading into this too and I was diagnosed with diabetes with person hey with depression and anxiety diversion and I was really angry in the beginning because I felt like there was something wrong wrong with me I was like why. Why do I have to be different? Why does it have to be something wrong with me? You know with my mind and I started going to therapy because my my mom made me go. Actually I had this. I was just in this really dark place in this whole that. I couldn't get myself out of this one day. My mom was like all right. This is enough. You need to get help help and you know I'm very fortunate. We have a C. B. H. A. Center for be Behavioral Health on my reservation back home. And so there's therapists right there. You you know just willing to help and I kind of had to wrap my head around it but when I did start going and I got my diagnosis. And she started explaining to me what depression was and what anxiety he was. I didn't feel so angry anymore. You know I was actually sitting there and I was like oh my gosh like this isn't my fault you know. Depression is a chemical imbalance in your brain and all these like after effects like anxiety in all these things come with it and it makes it so hard for people and so many of us suffer from it. But we're so scared to talk talk about it out of shame out of embarrassment and I was there. I was that person. I was so ashamed of feeling like that of being like that and In the beginning I tried to I guess. Take that holistic approach. I didn't WanNa take any medication. So I just kept doing therapy kept doing therapy. And you know it was being communicated gated with my family about what was going on but it still wasn't enough and eventually decided to get on antidepressants. And that was what really helped me. And then I went through a whole other journey of trying to get rid of the shame in being on medications because you know people are like your heads like what are. What are your on meds for like crazy pills? And I'm I'm like I'm not crazy dude like do you wanna crazy but yeah I mean if it wasn't for antidepressants. You know I really don't know what I would've you've done in all honesty and so my journey was a lot of ups and downs and you know even now I still have these days. I have to sit there and I have to like really really dig deep. Even I have to do my affirmations and you know have to call my sister and my mom to kind of get that uplift need but I just I just don't care anymore like if you think I'm crazy fine and if you think medications are wrong fine but this was my journey and I have no shame in anymore at all. I'm proud of WHO I am. A proud went through. Because if I didn't go through these things I wouldn't be here I wouldn't be the Cheyenne that I am. You know and so I was laughing when we were at Santa Fe Indian school just kept telling him like no shame in this game. There's no shame in this game. Maybe it'd be like I am. I am who I am and all in through like being missing world I feel like I need to be genuine about that needs to be real about that. I have to be honest about it because I am not put together all the time like. Hey listen I know my dresses look pretty and I learned how to do my island really well recently but I do not have it together all the time and it's okay. It is okay to feel that way. It's okay you know to to be sad. It's okay to be angry but don't stay in that place as you know talk about it and you know not just to the kids I tell them to talk about it but to the parents especially you know. Talk to your kids about these things. It's really uncomfortable. I know but you know you need to. We need to start normalising these things in our communities so many of our kids suffer and we have the suicide eh going on and you know we need to protect our babies man like we. We have that responsibility as a community to make sure that we're loving each other taking care care of each other and not just physically but emotionally sure and sometimes it's hard to have those kind of conversations and you're really opening up something that A A Lotta Times people keep to themselves in. You're in a position to to work directly with young people. They see a young face. When you're telling these stories in I think sometimes that opens up things that other avenues can't will continue here? Hang tight native America calling. They are closed today. But you can still reach out to us on twitter and facebook to share your thoughts. We're featuring native holiday music to go along with the season. Here's any with those singing. Do fixing with their version. Then what child this is. We'll have more need of holiday tunes on the next native America calling support by Freedom Lodge providing healing for seven generations interested in learning to heal generational trauma. You can be among those who join a dynamic two hundred. Our historical stoorikhel trauma masterclass taught by Dr Ruby Gibson and staff beginning in May twenty twenty on the United Nation in Wisconsin for mental and behavioral health therapists and and domestic and sexual abuse advocates. Registration deadline is March. Second Information and registration at Freedom Lodge Dot Org call the people in the Mike Bow to rock and overtake the Night Lights Up and system down around five it off uh-huh this is need of America Calling Tara Gatewood and we are talking with our September native in the spotlight despite light. Cheyenne Kippenberger Kirk. She's a thirty-six. Miss Indian world our pleasure to have a year. We're going to say hi to a caller out of Hollywood Florida. We're going to say hi to Kitty. WHO's tuned in online? Can you. Thanks for giving us a ring year on air. Hello hello go ahead. You're on air. Hi San So I know that you know me me and I just WanNa say you know you have made our tribe sell incredibly proud. You're such an amazing role model for not only just need girls but native native boys as well native youth and even older people you know you have your teaching us so many things that we haven't you know that we haven't processed yet and if you're starting conversations that really need to be spoken about and you know earlier. You were talking about the stigma against the anti depressants and I also wanted ads. You know you're sitting there and you said there's some days where you don't have it all together and you know I plotted for that. I applaud you for admitting that on live radio. You know. Nobody's put together. Nobody's perfect in certainly not miss Indian world. Also there's some day some things society enforces Ana WanNa like you know. Get out of bed every day and go to work and do your share and be a productive member of society but you know there are some days where you don't feel like getting out of bed you don't feel like leaving the house and you don't you don't have anything to be productive for you. Don't want to contribute a share to society and that's okay too just because you don't roll out of bed and and contribute your shirt. Society daily is okay. You now you could take a break. Their worth is not based on your productivity. Remember that you're worth is not based on your productivity absolutely not. We'll kitty thank you for giving us a ring there in Hollywood Florida tuned in online. We're going to hear now from Scott in Massachusetts who's also tuned in online mine. Scott thanks for giving us a ring. You're on the air hi I always just really struck by the Rayvey. They have talked about mental health issues especially actually amongst natives Kick out kind of talked about this but I was curious as to If you could just like expand upon your or experience because you've had the opportunity to travel across the nation representing Native at large If you've running if you've run into into this kind of recurring theme of oppression of mental health issues and kind of If you have any insights into how to move forward with that and whether it's just drag dependence depression alcoholism which seems to be both things that are stereotyped within the community and things that people struggle to come out with If you have any like insight upon that. I just think it's really courageous if you to talk about these things because it's important and it's needed and deserved attention. Scott thank you for giving US serene great here from somebody out of Massachusetts giant go ahead Oh definitely I mean. In all my travels 'em when we get to exchange specially with people people around my age and younger as well You know mental health and Drugs and alcohol have an issue that affects if not all of our communities you know. It's something that as native and indigenous people we really really struggled from and I think it has a lot to do with the intergenerational trauma That we you know we pass on not knowingly either and you know we pass it on and we pass it on and so I see that I kind of came came to this realization where it's like back in the day you know when settlers and colonisation was first occurring. We were not thinking about comfortably. We were thinking about survival. You know so putting our feelings of you know whether it was exciting sadness anger on the back burner was what we had to do to survive. We had to think about you know moving moving migrating whatever it was and so sitting there and kind of like talking about your feelings was just not something that we had time for and so And many of the communities that I've been to I've talked to different people about their struggles with mental health as well. But you know for instance yesterday when I was at the Santa Fe Indian school cool like I'm very open about my journey with it and I put her all out there for everybody to see. I'm an open book. You know so afterwards when some of the kids were coming back up to me and they're like thank you for talking about that you know because sometimes I feel like that. Sometimes I feel like he knew I may may not be. We're like worthy of something or like I'm good enough to do this. And so thank you for doing that. And thank you for talking about how you know. You may have felt like that one day or even still feel like that sometimes but like you're missing world and that's that's why I do it because I felt so alone. You know I felt really alone at times and it was weird because when when you're in that type of head space you push everybody away and then you're sitting there and you're like I'm by myself like nobody cares like my friends. Don't WanNa see me. They don't want to hang out with me. They I feel bad for me and you know that's the anxiety the depression talking and none of it's true and so I definitely see like a reoccurring I just see it everywhere and you know even out of native communities too and so it's just something that we need to start talking about. You know make it a normal conversation at dinner and and let's stop feeling so shameful about these things you know. We had to fight the fight back in the day but right now this is our fight protecting our our mind our hearts and our spirits in our bodies. Thank you so much i-in in China and I think something I'm also hearing you saying is understanding your own worth and everything in this world or not everything being a lot of things in this world Are there to kind of feed the other side in sometimes Even coming from some of our tribal communities communities There are a lot of challenges. And and you know it was recently reading an article about native women being paid less. And so there's so so much that in this world comes at us that doesn't tell us you know. Take a moment. Remember you are worth something. Remember that you come from a long long line of people who survived and you have so many options in front of you and there's so much negativity everywhere we turn In our communities in the World Cheyenne what would you like to share about cutting through that negatively and and really getting to that point where you are feeling centered or or you are taking king in all of these things that came to us because the sacrifices before generations how do we break away from the negativity you know growing that my mom was always so big on positive affirmations and like speaking things into existence. And you know really praying and I didn't appreciate that when I was younger And so when I got older I realized I clicked what she was doing. Is it clicked and I was like. Wow you know. There's power our in being in a really really really like pretty much crappy situation and still finding the light in something like that's that's powerful to do it. It's harder to to be positive like ninety nine percent of the time than it is to be negative all the time in N. There's this quote that I have I have it written on a sticky and I used to keep but on my mirror in my bathroom. It said miserable people can Be Anywhere in. have everything still be miserable. Happy People can be nowhere and have have nothing and still be happy and so I always think about that and so when it comes to self worth you know I had to kind of really start thinking about You know like the Western kind of Like the beauty standards and like the the productivity standards and things like that and just how those things were forced on us. You know being the skinniest being the prettiest you know having clear skin like wasn't what we were thinking about. You know we eat good and you know so we were worried about that and I definitely feel like Kitty was saying earlier about sometimes. You just WANNA get out of bed and because we have this ideology theology of if you're not productive you're not worth anything you know that really starts to affect what you think about yourself because depression. Sometimes you can't even get out of bed. Let let alone shower. Change your clothes brush your hair. You know things like that that can be those. Little steps are triumphs for somebody. That's really going through a bad depressive episode episode and so when it comes to self worth I feel like a lot of it is one the support that you have behind you. You have to know that people love you you are loved and you are adored and those people around you. You need to make sure that you have people around you. That are filling you up with that. That aren't take constantly taking away from you and it it. Yesterday we talked about that as well with the students at Santa Fe Indian school and I told them and I was like when you start doing buddy for yourself sometimes like people just start start disappearing from your circle and it's okay like let them go cut him loose. You know like you don't need that around you. You need people that are going to constantly uplift you constantly a be a safe space for you to talk and those are the things that helped me in a really find myself worth and I had to learn to love myself even the parts of myself myself that I'm not happy with and that's okay. But that's what makes me me you know and It's all over instagram. Everybody hears it all the time but you are your ancestors ancestors wildest dreams you were prayed into existence there are strong prayers behind every single one of these indigenous lives. These native lives. That are still here. Everybody has a purpose. You know we are all here for a reason and you know it was. It was hard to kind of accept that right because you know I wasn't necessarily the smartest in school. I wasn't the skinniest. I wasn't the prettiest story. I didn't have the nicest car things like that. And those are things that it just don't matter those aren't the things that feed your spirit at all those things that they fill your heart up and so find those things that can be yoga could be music. It could be running wing. It could be you know. Basket weaving or sewing or beating. All these things are arts and crafts and are traditional ways like those are medicine and when when you find those things and you sit there and you just enjoy sitting at the coffee table with your sister beating that's medicine and that's hailing you. Cheyenne greet works. Thank you for sharing. And I'm sure people have some things they want to share to in Cheyenne. When you're feeling this way and you understand really how far you can take things and and you start to look at okay? What can I do with my life? What can I change Where can I bring some of the light to the dark and you are very concerned with how native Americans are portrayed in the media But even you know how people are first introduced to native Americans this role that you're in you may be the the first native American somebody meets may be the only native American in their entire life and so there is something really important when we do as needed people Even a program like this introducing people to the truth of WHO. We are Where we come from the are complexity is as beautiful as it is and everything that it leads to and so shy and talk to me? A little bit about wanting to change The world's perception of native Americans or even the way we're teaching shing who we are as native people in our schools. Two little ones go ahead. I think a lot of it always kind of goes back to this. This concept of like Pan indigenism gene. ISM where we're like the one big group of people with one language and we wear the same thing and it's like oh no no no baby like there is there is many of us there is over. I believe five hundred seventy recognized tribes now federally recognized if I'm not mistaken And every single single one of these communities have their own language have their own regalia have their own traditions their own ceremonies their own taboos everything and so you know when people meet me they're like. Oh you're seminal like do POW and I'm like no actually we never traditionally danced in Powell's ever you know or Do we live in. TEEPEES and people from the swamps. You know I don't know where we were GONNA put those but we didn't have those or Say something in Indian for me. And I'm like my people speak Miccosukee these big creek and so A lot of is kind of breaking down those barriers breaking down those misconceptions Sion's but you know we're constantly being boxed into the stereotypes of Especially in the media you know of horseless on artisan horseless. Hey back shirtless on horseback or in like the battered native woman or like the really really poor reservation Shen and that's not who we are. That's and you know you can't you can't fit us into this one narrative because it's just not possible we are also complex and so different in all of our cultures and all of our ways you know it's like for instance. I visited North Dakota and I was visiting the three affiliated tribes And then hit. It's a data in a recruiter. And you know. The women are allowed to participate. In sweats there and traditionally. We don't do sweats women. Don't do sweats back home. You know and so oh you see all these differences but there's also many similarities and so when I do get to meet non natives and like you said sometimes I'm the one in the only one that they ever meet I always just try to go back to the core values and I feel like as indigenous people as native people. We share core values which is hospitality. You know we. We are very community oriented people. We are We are like we're not self serving people we take care of our land and it's never or something that we is bought or sold or belongs to anybody and we understand these concept. We understand the circle of life and how everything's connected and that's what I always try to teach people when I do you meet them. It's that you know were so different and all these different ways but this is what we shares people this is like the understanding the core values the morale that we have and that that is the foundation of everything that we do. You know and there's love and all that we do and I mean I take so much pride in being able to visit all all these different communities and I get to share you know things about my people and I learned so much about their people and the next thing you know. We're sitting there and they're like. Oh you guys do that too. And I'm like yeah and it's it's incredible. You know what it what it does to be able to teach people that as well but you you know representation. We deserve good positive or presentation. You know we it's. It's really sad to sit here and think about you know we don't want on our children watching the Pocahontas Disney movie. You know 'cause they call literally call us savages in that movie. They literally say the words barely even human in one of the songs. And it's like is that what we want our kids thinking about themselves like where people we are living thriving people here and I've also come across the misconception of that. Were just completely nonexistent anymore. That were just completely gone. And or like Oh there's so few of you and it's like where it's not that we're an extinct stink people where people recovering from genocide like we are building backup. Our communities were building. Backup our populations and I feel that when these negative stereotypes are perpetuated and all these ways it. That's that affects our self esteem as native people as well. You know because you're sitting when you're thinking well they just call me Pocahontas and I went to that all I still go through it like Oh Polka Polka Hana's Polka. Heidi and I'm like dude. God that's ugly. You shouldn't say that. And you know it's it affects our women because it's like this hyper sexualization of native American women and you know that plays into 'em I w an Emmy wg because we're like fetish is in the men to and it's it's not good for our people. It's not good at all and you know it's time that we start. It's funny. We were making a joke yesterday. Like you have to shake the table and I was like no man. We have the flip it like. We have to flip that thing and let them know that. We're just tired of it. You know and it's very seldom that you come across a story about native American can people where you know like the center of the stories about them empowering themselves. It's always like a saving story. Today's an encore presentation of electronic talking circle. Phone lines are closed. But we still want to hear from you. Sending email to comments and native America calling dot Com ooh support by Ramona farms offering wholesome and delicious foods from our heirloom crops as our contribution to a better diet for the benefit of all people. We are honored to share our centuries-old farming and culinary traditions online at Ramona farms dot com from northern Minnesota Red Lake Nation Foods is pleased to support this show and share the bounty of the harvest wild rice products and wild fruit jams jellies syrups produced by American Indians and available at Red Lake. NATION FOODS DOT com the northern here among winter saw with the Oh love they dance long old ones. I you let people see their spirits uh-huh You what thanks for tuning in today. I'm Tara Gatewood. The rainy misinformation world giant. Kevin Burger is with us today here in studio forty nine. We're hearing a little bit about her life her position and some of the things that she is hoping to do with her title as well as pay tribute to those who have come before her. Cheyenne thank you for being here with us. And we're going to say hello to David now. WHO's tuned in in Oklahoma Online? David thank you for giving us a ring you're connected to Cheyenne in L.. Cheyenne I'm giving a question. On behalf of the respect trouble Youth Council of the China tribes and also some of the tribe of Oklahoma since in a question for you on your Mental Health Perspective Platform that you've been giving one of the spectrum on the spectrum of anxiety and depression how do we differentiate if again she ate between what needs to be treated and what might be broader. Societal triggers like climate change polarized politics racial economic an environmental inequality that might be a call to action for us and for our families. David thanks for giving us a ring. Go ahead Cheyenne. You know in my own journey. I kind of had to go in like research different things. And that was how I started to learn about intergenerational trauma and how that gets passed John and we have blood memory of the things that have been done to us and all the things that are happening around us like climate change and politics and all these different things is play into our mental health as native indigenous. People and I had to kind of learn that on my own because it's I think it's something that needs needs to happen as well that we have these Like counselors and therapists that understand The cultural foundation behind these things. You know 'cause it's not a simple as like Like you just have depression. It's like okay but would you know like is there triggers behind these things. Is there like is it the environment whatever it is and it's like we are literally living in a time right now where we're watching. Our ancestral lands were watching the earth. Literally being poisoned and killed things are being taken from her and we feel that we feel that pain. You know and I I just. It's so easy for us to understand understand. You know as native people as an easy conversation to have that we have this responsibility to take care of. What's taking care of us and I think it's it's so difficult to explain it. Sometimes to non natives but It's a journey that I've actually been on with my therapist as well where I sit there and I tell her I'm like you know like this is something that you also need to understand because we carry this burden inside of us and so all of these things are connected you you know the same way that hyper sexualization can affect our self esteem in our self image. The same way that you know watching our ancestral lands being dug up and extracted and all these different things like that that brings on sadness. And we feel the pain and everything and so Thank you David for bringing that up because it's such a great great perspective. That people need to hear that all these things are are intertwined. They're all connected in a way so I think that you know it's important to have of a and I know there's a word for this. It's like it's like I guess like culturally relevant training for like even even like teachers. They understand that. There's like certain verbiage that you can't use you know what I mean and things like that. It's like it's like cultural sensitivity again. Maybe sure and and there's a lot of work that's being done in that because when you do create that environment especially in a school situation where Your understanding and supporting during the needs of your native students. I think a lot changes and people have done studies on this and they have the numbers and and the results to prove some of that and A. and so I think it's interesting and right now we're in the middle of the school year in went up Tober rolls around for many people. It's a hard time because we have Columbus Columbus Day Halloween thanksgiving all of those things. Start Rolling through But we also have indigenous peoples day to where a lot of people. Aw Pushing back or using that moment to educate and so there's a lot there Again thank you for your call. You know what let's take another one. We're going to say hi to Donna in Wasa Muscle Alaska tuned in on can be done. Thanks for giving us a ring. You're on air morning. Congratulations to Miss World. I This native American missiles I had a journey myself where I didn't even know I was depressed. Ten I needed healing but I have received healings who book called healing as memories and it was my childhood that needed healing and it is a journey journey and it's all throughout the life and we have to try to look at the beauty and others in the beauty world in positive and grabbed that piece when we can and take at least half an hour each day where we have peace where we can relax and do something that it makes us feel good about ourselves and the world thank you all right done a yes that me time is really important Let's say hi. Now to Steve Steve in Albuquerque New Mexico tuned in on Kym Steve. Thanks for giving us a ringo. You're on your high high terra. Good Morning Thank you for taking taking my call. Shan I really appreciate your talking about The healing process a little bit ago And I've been through some of that one thing that really helped me Get over the feeling of not being good enough. When I majored myself against other people just Within within my heart saying you're my best friend. You Know Steve. You're at my best friend and then bringing other folks in my parents and other people who are important in creating a little circle just in inside myself And I I think the other thing that you mentioned that it's really important is Is is going for what you were. What what you were born for the purpose you were you were meant to live for and once you kind of discover that and and do it no matter what other people wants you to do I think you're really on the road to recovery. Steve Thank you for sharing your thoughts. Cheyenne anything you want to tell Steve. I love what she said about. You know like I am my best friend. You know 'cause I had learned that you know after. Are you lose all these people around you. You have to sit there and you have to be okay with being by yourself. I love that you mentioned that. I've never even thought about it that way. You know but it's like I always make this joke like I'm in love with myself fully in love with myself and it's it's good to feel that way. It's not selfish. It's not like being full yourself like you half to love yourself. You have to be okay with being by yourself as well you know and you know the importance of self care and not just getting your nails done getting a face. Lisa like really sitting there and being with your thoughts and like sorting them through and compartmentalizing everything you know putting everything that folder putting it away. Okay and putting it in the filing cabinet that's very important to do and you know the journey to healing is not always going to be easy one But it's it's always. It's not necessarily always going to be like your feet Ford. You know like there was points in my healing and even now that I you know I'll go four four steps forward to be knocked. Walked back another eight. You know but that's okay you know like it's important to remember that resiliency that we've always had inside of us you know it's important to rely on your ancestral strength. That's carried through you. You know like I mentioned before like he were prayed into existence. So you need to pray for yourself you need to sit there and you need to go through everything and I really learned through Yoga Like to feel different things in my body and the like like when you breathe and you'll get it's just straight nose breathing for the nose to nose and you had to learn to kind of be in that moment at that in the during the meditation Asian you have and you're breathing oxygen into these different places of your body and I had never felt that moment before where I was like. Oh my God I'm really here like I'm really here. Living in a like I carry my you know. My seminal blood. In me I carry my blood in me and like I'm just really proud proud of who I am and I love this and One of my affirmations is I always express my gratitude for my body. I'm always like thank you for these feet. Thank you for these hands. Thank you for this mine and thank you for this voice. I oh this is like the things I say to myself every single day and you know learning to love yourself yourself not easy. Sometimes at all there was like these. I sat there look myself in the mirror and I'm just like I. I don't like you right now. You you know but the next day I'm sitting there and I'm like you're not perfect but you're still beautiful and all of you are beautiful all of you have these incredible things about you. That sometimes only you know about yourself and that's okay that's okay but it's important to be your own best friend. I love that. They're very nice in you. Know part of your strength does come from your community In this short time that we've been together here on era carrying you say things like home or back home and when a person talks about tribal community that way It seems like it's almost malls another person in your life a character or something that is there for you that that bases in social anything you want to share about your own tribal nation. You're you're the first person from the seminole tribe of Florida to hold this title and it's an invitation to the world to learn a little bit more about who the seminal people are tell us educate us take two seminal okay. Let's do this so I'm from the Hollywood reservation. My family is from there We have the Hollywood reservation bake Cyprus bright in Tampa we have the a mockery and trail communities My tribe consists of about forty forty five hundred members. So we're not extremely big but we're also not very small either But we're very proud people. We are the unconquered similar type of Florida. We never signed the treaty with the US government and we are very very proud of that and we take a lot of pride in the fact that we have built such a successful foundation of enterprises. You know we we. We bought the hardrock brand. I believe in two thousand eight and you know it's just been an. It's an incredible journey because I wasn't very young when that happened but I also wasn't too. I guess like old enough to like really realize what was going on but now that I'm older I see it and I'm like Whoa. That's actually really crazy. We started with we were on commodities. You know we had cigarette shops and Bingo. That's what we came from. You know and so oh I I take a lot of pride in my people because we it's almost like we beat them at their own game is how I look at it and you. You know we're proud of who we are. We're proud of our languages clothing. Our Arts our traditions or ceremonies and shout out to everybody back home. Because if it wasn't for you guys you know. I really don't know who I would be probably lost. You know and I have incredible friends and family back home that have just supported me through all of this. You know from the beginning of Miss. Florida seminal two now and I invite everybody nobody to come and visit my community. We have a POW in February. I believe it's February seventh through ninth if I'm not mistaken Actually and it's nice. This week is actually the We're celebrating Indian national day and so I was kind of jealous. My sister was posting on them at the dress competition. I was like man. I should be there but Yeah I love. People were really well known for alligator wrestling were well known for our patchwork clothing And you know at the talent night the talent presentation I shared my My talent was sharing a traditional hairstyle. Used to wear in the thirties and forties. And I love it because that's so how people remember me from gathering they're like you're the one that did that really cool hair like yeah. That was me and it's awesome because it was something that I have been asked about before but had never really is not something that's shared too much There's there's only so many ways to do it and so it was nice to kind of share that new aspect aspect of who seminal women are and you know it's awesome like I said I invite everybody to come see me community. We have billy swamp safari ants aunts and the L.. Yes the game museum and you know we are more than willing to share who we are as seminal people and yeah we're we're we're proud people we really really are and we're strong people in so Cheyenne You are halfway through your year holding this title and I can only imagine all the different places that you have on your agenda Before the next gathering of nations in April and I'm sure that time time is gonNA come real fast. Cheyenne just taking a look at The pathway forward anything you want to share about things coming up or or what you hope you know this journey will bring your life. Got About a minute I just want to let everybody know like your your loved. You are loved you are extremely loved and you are strong on. We are strong people and don't ever ever give up and I always tell people I'm like you can message me and I totally mean that like. Dm Me on instagram machine. Can you talk I really. Am You know this. I'm an open book like I said I have zero. Shame in my journey and so you know if it means empowering other people like I'm all all for it and you know I'd like to invite anybody that's interested in running in the The pageant as well to message me and to reach out and I'm here for advice to answer questions. Whatever it may be two girls looking to compete in their own tribal communities? Do it do it girl. You got the goods. You're thinking about it so you know you can do it but Just remember number that we're strong people you know we carry. We carry a lot of medicine and prayers and resiliency inside of us into just remember that and again I wanNA invite everybody to the gathering of Nations POW. Wow in April Get Away with that Dolo. Gathering Powell eliminated any single in real and and remember to fight for that representation representation. Don't be scared to flip the table. Go Wow too bad. This is in video because then we'd have have you flip this desk right now right on in real quick where people find you on social media. my name is super super long so if you do at MIT w Cheyenne Kippenberger C. H. e. y. e. and then e. k. i. p. e. n. b. e. R. G. E. R.. That's me I also have a facebook page You could search twenty nineteen twenty twenty the new world champion Kippenberger and you could also go to gathering of nations dot Com for any any and all information you know. Reach out to us for bookings and things like that. I'd love to come and visit your communities. I really would and like I said open invitation to come and visit my community munity as well all right. Well that's going to do it for our visit with Cindy and world. Cheyenne Kevin Burger. If you missed anything you can find it. In our archives on our website site native America calling dot Com Cheyenne. Thank you for being here with us. And again congratulations to your title and what lies before you. I'm your host terra gatewood a Today phone lines are closed for our encore presentation of Native America. Calling send us a tweet instead to one eight hundred nine nine native native Americans affected affected by domestic. Violence can call strong hearts native helpline offering free confidential support and resources. Strong hearts takes calls from anyone hurting putting in their relationship or who may be concerned for someone else available seven. AM TO TEN PM central time seven days a week at eight four four seven native. That's eight four. Four seven native more at strong hearts helpline DOT ORG program support by the National Indigenous Women's Resource Center. Crooner were in on holiday. So let me see that you Moise Nicholasville across the sea in you riddick. Sitting right up to 'em young see healthcare dot a cup knock Akilah one eight hundred three one eight two five nine six Nakai looney Medicare in indicate service. I native America calling produced in the birds. National Native Boy Studios in Albuquerque New Mexico by Broadcast Corporation and native nonprofit media organization funding is provided by the corporation for Public Broadcasting Broadcasting with support from the Public Radio Satellite Service. Music is by Brent Michael. Davids native voiced won the native American Radio Network.

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Revisiting Thomas Kings Massey Lectures, Part Two

Ideas

55:08 min | 5 months ago

Revisiting Thomas Kings Massey Lectures, Part Two

"The theatres have closed, but the show look on, play me. PODCAST is thrilled to present a new series. The show must go on featuring provocative productions from some of north. America's most acclaimed creators for the stage sit back and experience everything from chilling thrillers to Gut. Wrenching dramas to arriver in comedies each month experience the exhilaration of theatre from the comfort of your own home. Plenty available wherever you get your podcast. This is a CBC podcast. I add and this is. The truth about stories. Writer Thomas King says that's only our. World made up of narratives, wondrous and dangerous. Some rooted in fact, others fiction. Often both. As individuals as groups and cultures, we can try and tell her own stories, but sometimes narratives are imposed on us. In two thousand and three. Thomas King traveled across Canada delivering his Massey lectures called the truth about stories and native narrative. Each talk may start and end with variations of the same stories. But the insights and emotions they contain are varied and complicated. This second lecture looks at the ways. Indigenous people see themselves and have been seen how they represent themselves and are represented. It's all described through the mind and experience of Thomas King. At Cherokee European, writer and photographer, american-born and Ontario based here. He is with your. Not. The Indian had in mind reported at Memorial University in Saint John's in two, thousand and three. Started did you might be sorry? This is the second of the Massey lectures. There's a story I know it's about the earth and how it floats in space on the back of a turtle. I've heard this story many times and each time. Someone tells the story changes. Sometimes it changes simply the voice of the storyteller. Sometimes it changes in the details. Sometimes in the order of events. Other Times. It's the dialogue the response of the audience, but in all the telling of all the tellers, the world never leaves the turtle's back and the. Turtle never swims away. One time it was in less bridge I think. A young boy in the audience asked about the earth the turtle. If the Earth was on the back of the turtle. What was below the Turtle? Another turtle, the storyteller told. And below that? Another turtle. And below that. Colonel. The will began to laugh enjoying the game I imagine so. How many turtles are there? He wanted to know. Storyteller shrugged. No one knows for sure. She told him, but it's turtles all the way down. The, truth about stories is that's all we are. You can't understand the world without telling a story. The unabashed Nabi writer Gerald. vizner tells us there isn't any center to the world but a story. Nine hundred and ninety four I came up with a bright idea of traveling around North America, taking black and white portraits of native artists. For a book Millennium Project actually I figured I'd spend a couple of months each year on the road, traveling to cities and towns and reserves and in Canada and the United States, and when two thousand and rolled around there I'd be with a terrific coffee table book to welcome the next thousand years. I should tell you that I had not come up with this idea on my own. As a matter of fact, Edward Sheriff Curtis had already done it. Photographed Indians that is. Indeed. Curtis is probably the most famous of the Indian photographers. He started this project of photographing the Indians of North America around nineteen hundred, and for the next thirty years he roamed the continent, producing some forty thousand negatives. Which more than twenty two hundred were published. Curtis was fascinated by the idea of the North American Indian was actually obsessed with it. And he was determined to capture that idea that image before it vanished. This was a common concern among intellectuals and artists and social scientists turn of the nineteenth century who believe that while Europeans in the new world were poised on the brink of new adventure. The Indian was poised on the brink of extinction. In literature in the United States this particular span of time is known as the American romantic period, and the Indian was tailor made for it with its emphasis on feeling this interest in nature, it's fascination with exoticism, mysticism, and eroticism, and its preoccupation with the glorification of the past American Romanticism, found in the Indian assemble in which all these concerns could be united. Prior to the nineteenth century, the prevalent image of the Indian had been that of inferior being. The Romantics imagine their Indian is dying, but in that dying in that passed away disappearing from the stage of human progress, there was also. A sense of nobility. One of the favourite narrative strategies was to create a single heroic. Male of course. James. Damore Cooper's Chin Gach Cook John Augusta Stones at Amora Henry Wadsworth long fellows, Hiawatha and Indian, who was the last of his race. Indeed during this period death, nobility were sympathetic ideas that complemented one another and writers during the first half of the nineteenth century. Use Them at close association, Creating Literary Shroud in which to wrap the Indian and bury them. Edgar Allan Poe believed that the most poetic topic in the world was the death of a beautiful woman. For the literature produced during the nineteenth century, second place would have to go to the death of the Indian. Not that Indians were dying. To be sure while many of the tribes who lived along the east coast of North America in the interior of Lower Canada and then the Connecticut, Ohio and Saint Lawrence River Valleys had been injured and disoriented by years of almost continuous warfare by European diseases, and by the destructive push of settlers, cheap land, the vast majority of the tribes were a comfortable distance away from the grave. This was the Indian a fact. Mean eighteen thirty when the American President Andrew Jackson fulfilling an election promise to as western and southern supporters pushed the removal act through Congress. He did so in order to get rid of thousands of Indians particularly the Cherokee the choctaw, the chickasaw, the creeks in the seminal, who were not dying and not particularly interested in going anywhere. These were not the Indians. Curtis went west to find. Curtis was looking for the literary Indian the dying in Indian the imaginative construct, and to make sure that he would find what he wanted to fight. He took a long boxes of Indian Paraphernalia. Wigs blankets painted backdrops clothing in Casey ran into Indians, who did not look as the Indian was supposed to look. I collect postcards old ones new ones. Postcards Depict Indians and Indian subjects high of one from the nineteen twenties that shows an Indian Lacrosse team in Oklahoma. Another is a hand colored rendering of the Sherman Indian School in California. A third is a cartoon of an Indian man fishing in the background. While in the foreground, a tourist takes a picture of the man's wife, and their seven kids with rather purell caption, and what does the chief do when he's not fishing? One of my favorites is a photograph of a group of Indians and full headdresses. Golfing Banff Springs Hotel Golf Course. In one, thousand, nine, hundred three. The photograph was taken by Brian Harman and shows. Jim Brewster in Norman Luxton to banff locals caddying for. We'll looks to be five Indians who are identified only as to stoney Indian chiefs. I like this particular postcard because there's an element of play in the image of Indians beat it outfits and full headdresses leaning on their golf clubs. While their horses graze in the background. And because I can't tell if the person on the T. With bobbed hair wearing what looks to be addressed and swinging the club is an Indian or a white, a man or a woman. But the vast majority of my postcards offer no such mysteries, they are simply pictures and paintings of Indians, in feathers and leathers, sitting in and around teepees, chasing buffalo on Pinto opponents. Some of these postcards are old, but many of them are brand new. Right off the rack. To our contemporary pieces from the Postcard Factory in Markham Ontario. The first shows an older Indian man, and the full beated infringed leather outfit with an Eagle Feather War Bonnet and a land, sitting on a horse set against a backdrop of trees and mountains. The second is a group of five Indians. One older man in a full headdress sit in on a horse, and for younger men on foot to with bone breastplates, one with leather vest and one bare chested. The interesting thing about these two postcards is that the solitary man on his horse is identified only as a cree Indian. Whether Group of five is designated as native Indians. Much like the golfers as if none of them had names or identities of the cliche. Though to give them identities to reveal the actual people would be I. Suppose a violation of the physical laws govern matter and antimatter that the Indian and Indians cannot exist in the same imagination. which must be why the white cat is on the bath postcard? Have names and the Indians do not. It is my postcard Indian that Curtis was after, and in spite of the fact that courtesy at a great variety of native people who would have given the lie to the construction, in spite of the fact that he vigorously fought for native rights and published articles and books that railed against the government's treatment of Indians. This was the Indian that Curtis believed in. I probably sound a little cranky. I don't mean to. I Know Curtis paid Indians to Shavuot any facial hair. I know we talked him into wearing wigs. I know that he would provide one tribe of Indians with clothing from another tribe because the clothing look more Indian. So as photographs would look authentic. And while there is a part of me. That would have preferred that Curtis had photographed as Indians as he found them. The men with crew cab, sometimes and mustaches. The women in cotton print dresses I'm grateful that we have as images at all for the faces of the mothers and fathers and aunts and uncles, sisters and brothers that look at you from the depths of these photographs are not romantic illusions. They are real people. Native culture as with any cultures vibrant changing thing and when Curtis happened upon it, it was changing from what it had been to what would become. But, the idea of the Indian was already fixed in time and space. Even before Curtis built his first camera that image had been set. His task is visited tribe after tribe was to sort through what he saw in order to find what he needed. But to accuse courtesy of romantic. Myopia is to be, petty. And to ignore the immensity of the project, and the personal and economic ordeal that he undertook. He spent his life photographing and writing about Indians he died harnessed to that endeavor. And when I look at his photographs, I can imagine the solitary man moving across the prairies through the forest along the coast, dragging behind him, an enormous camera and Tripod, and the cultural expectations of an emerging nation and I am humbled. Fall of nineteen, ninety five, and what I had pompously decided to call the Medicine River photographic expedition I was stuffed full of high expectations. My brother, Christopher who was a fine woodworker and three years younger than I wanted to come along. He told me that the expedition sounded like fun and the prospect of meeting. Other native artists was appealing. My mother. Fearful that are only children might get lost in the heart of the heart of the country. Cooked impact six roast chickens. Twenty doesn't chocolate chip cookies. An entire tree of bananas. Vineyard of grapes. And orchards of apples and oranges for loaves of bread, a case of drinking water candy in case ran out of cookies. I guess. and four pounds of butter. Along with a complete set of maps of the provinces in states, three flashlights of varying sizes, highway hazard, warning light a car battery charging system with electric tire inflator. Several pamphlets on how to survive in the Wilderness. And, a compass. After, we had packed instead our goodbyes, she walked alongside the car all the way to the street and had US roll down the window, so she could tell us to drive carefully. As, we slipped onto the interstate. The Volvo stuffed with camera gear and the better part of a grocery store. And began following my bright idea down to the American southwest I can remember thinking that Curtis couldn't have been any better outfitted. In Roseville California where I grew up, race was little more than a series of cultural tributaries that flow through the town coming together and confluence is swinging away into Eddie's. There were at least three main streams. The Mediterranean folk Italians and Greeks and the general mix of Anglo. SAXONS that Japanese friend of mine years later would refer to as the crazy caucasoids. But in Roseville in the late nineteen fifties and early nineteen sixties, there were no Asian families that I can remember and the picture I have of my nineteen sixty one graduating class does not contain a single black face. If there was a racial divide in the town was aligned between the Mexicans and everyone else. Some of the Mexican families had been in the area long before California fell to the Americans in eighteen, forty, eight as a spoil of war. The rest had come north later to work the fields in. It's settled in Roseville, and the other small towns elk Grove Lodi Stockton Sherlock said Fresno towns that ran through the heart of the Sacramento and San Joaquin Valleys. I went to school with a Hernandes. The Gomez is, but I didn't socialize with them didn't even know where they lived. My brother and I kept pretty much to our own neighborhood or five or six block area on the northwestern edge of town, bounded by the auction yards in an ocean of open fields. Racism is a funny thing you know. Dead quiet on occasion. Often dangerous. But sometimes sometimes it has a peculiar sense of humour. The guys Iran with looked at Mexicans with a certain disdain. I'd like to say that I didn't but that wasn't true. No, humor here. Except the While I was looking at Mexicans other people that turned out. We're looking at me. In my last year of high school I mustered up enough courage to ask Karen Butler to go to the prom with me. That's not her real name of course. I've changes. We don't run the risk of embarrassing her for something. That wasn't her fault. I should probably begin by saying that eighteen. I was not the prettiest of creatures. Call in skinny with no more coordination of three legged stepladder. Pimple card. To brighten my adolescence. Impulse. has almost a dainty sound. Like dimples. But my pimples were. Not Annoying little flares that appeared here and there, but rather large erupting pustules. Hurled magma and spewed lava. They crowded against the size of my nose and burrowed around my lips and. Spread out across my chin and forehead like a cluster of volcanic islands. Roseville was a railroad town until the hospital and the shopping center were built on the southeast side. Most everyone lived north of the tracks. Karen was from the South side one of the new subdivisions what cultural theorists late twentieth century would call havens of homogeneity. Karen's mother was a schoolteacher. Father was a doctor. My mother, Randa, a small beauty shop out of a converted garage. Karen family was upper middle class. We weren't. Still. There was a leveling of sorts for Karen had a heart defect. It didn't affect your so far as I could tell, but I figured that being well off with a heart defect was pretty much the same as being poor with pimples. So I asked if you wanted to go to the prom with me and she said she said yes. Then about a week before the big evening Karen. Call me to tell me she couldn't go to the dance after all I'm sorry. She told me it's my father. He doesn't want me dating Mexicans. Writer Thomas King with his Massey lectures the truth about stories, a native narrative first broadcast in two thousand and three. You're listening to ideas. Were heard on CBC. Radio. One in Canada across North America on Sirius Xm in Australia on RN and around the world at CBC, dot Ca Slash ideas can find us on the CBC Listen Up and wherever you get your podcast. I'm Nulla I add. I'm Keith Macarthur. Unlocking bryson sprain is a podcast about my son. The rare disease that keeps him from walking or talking Bryson's perfect, and his life is really hard, and our families search for a cure. Oh my Gosh! Maybe science is ready for this. It's part memoir part medical mystery. We can do just about anything modifying DNA heart in my throat. is controversial unlocking Bryson's brain? Subscribe wherever you get your podcasts. Now Back to Thomas Kings two thousand and three Massey lectures this second of his talks called. You're not the Indian I had in mind. It took my brother and me about four days to drive to New Mexico we could have made the trip in three days where we kept getting sidetracked by interesting stops, my favorite wasn't Mcdonald's on the. Will Rogers Turnpike near Clermont Oklahoma. I generally avoid places like McDonalds, but this one had tiny will rogers museum on the first floor of the restaurant as well as the statue of Rogers himself in the parking lot standing next to a flagpole, twirling or rope? Tourist off the turnpike and seeing the statue for the first time would probably think Roger's with some kind of famous cowboy. In fact he was a famous Indian. A sort of Indian cowboy, a Cherokee to be exact. But. Most importantly he was what the political and literary theorist Antonio Gramsci. She called Inorganic. Intellectual. And individual who articulates the understandings of community or a nation? During the nineteen thirties. Rogers was probably the most famous man in North America. He performed in circuses in wild west shows. He starred in Ziegfield follies, and from nineteen, thirty, three to nineteen, thirty five. He was the top male motion picture box office attraction. Over forty million people read his newspaper columns and everything from gun control to Congress and even more or listen to US weekly radio show. He did just about everything with the exception of running for office. I ain't GonNa try that. He said I got some pride left. Rogers was born near Clare Moore Oklahoma and his family was prominent in the Cherokee nation, but he didn't look Indian. Constructed way certainly not in the way. Curtis wanted Indians to look. And tourists pulling into the parking lot and seeing the statute for the first time would never know that this was an Indian. is famous sitting bull, crazy, horse or Geronimo? Christopher, muster, read my mind. The Indians were going to photograph. He said walking over to the statue. What if they all look like Rogers? I know he's Indian, said my brother, and you know his Indian. But how is anybody else going to be able to tell? Curtis wasn't the only photographer in the Early Twentieth Century was taking pictures of Indians so was Richard Throw sell unless you're a photography buff, you won't know the name and will therefore have no way of knowing that throw. Selah was not only a contemporary of Curtis's, but he was also native cree to be exact adopted by the crow. Throw Sal even met Curtis when Curtis came to the crow, reservation. Throw sell took many of the same sort of romantic photographs as Curtis photographs such as the Sentinel, which shows an Indian and feathered headdress, holding a lance and sitting on a horse, all in Silhouette said against her dramatic sky, or the feathered horsemen, which records a party of Indians on horses, coming through a stand of teepees, the men, wearing feathered headdresses and carrying bows and arrows and lances. But also took other photographs photographs at moved away from romance towards environmental and social comment photographs that did not imagine. The Indian is dying or particularly noble photographs that suggested that Indians were contemporary as well as historical figures. His photograph bowl over the hills home titled The old and the new, which shows a log house with a teepee in the background and nineteen ten photograph interior of the best Indian kitchen on the on the crow reservation, which shows an Indian family dressed in traditional clothing, sitting at an elegantly set table, and they're very contemporary house having tea. Suggests that native people can negotiate the past and the present with relative ease. His Unin titled Camp Seeing The juxtaposes traditional teepees with contemporary buggies and a family of pigs. Rather than the UNSHOD ponies in the prerequisite herd of Buffalo. Suggest at least to my contemporary sensibilities that throw cell had a penchant for satiric play. But I'm probably imagining the humor. Throw cell was after all a series photographer trying to capture a moment. Perhaps not realizing that tripping, the shutter captures nothing. That everything on the ground glass changes before the light hits the film plane. With the camera allows you to do is to invent to create. That's really what photographs are. Not Records of moments, but rather imaginative axe. Still Neither Curtis North Roselle had to deal with Rogers conundrum. Or, perhaps neither chose to throw cells Indians. Even the one set against contemporary backdrops were like Curtis's Indians all visually Indian when we look at his photographs, we see what do we expect to see? The choctaw Cherokee Irish writer Louis Owens in his memoir. I hear the train. Reflections inventions refraction 's deals with the issue of photographs and expectations. Looking through a collection of photographs of his mixed blood family owens can find no Indians. This family from whom descended, he says. Where's No recognizably Indian cultural artifacts, nor are they surrounded by such cigna fires, though there is possibility in the blanket nailed across the cabin door. What if my great-grandfather had perversely wrapped a blanket around himself just for this picture? To find the Indian and photographic cupboard must narrative construct him out of his missing presence from my great grandfather was Indian, but not an Indian. Of course all this my expedite. Bro Sells Images Owens. Family portraits a reminder of how hard it is to break free from the parochial and paradoxical considerations of identity and authenticity. Owens in particularly Ri-, moment notes that few looking at these photographs of mixed bloods will be likely to say. They don't look like Irishman. But. Everyone seems obligated to offer an opinion regarding the degree of s represented. In Curtis's magnum opus portrait's of North American Indian life. We don't see a collection of photographs of people we see race. Never mind that racism construction and an illusion never mind that it does not exist in either biology or theology, though both have from time to time been enlisted in the cause of racism. Never mind that we can't hear it or smell it or taste their feel it. The important thing is that we believe we can see it. In fact. We hope we can see it. For one of the conundrums of the late twentieth century that we've hauled into the twenty-first, is that many of our mothers and fathers who were pursued by missionaries, educators and government officials armed with residential school. European history legislation such as the Indian, act, the termination, act and relocation. Were forcibly encouraged to give up their identities. But they now have children. Poor determined to be seen as Indians Louis. Owens isn't the only native person who was sort through old photographs and looked in cold mirrors for that visual confirmation. When I was going to university. There was almost an irresistible poll to become journal Vizner calls. The cultural ritualised a kind of pretend, Indian an Indian who has to dress up like an Indian and act like an Indian in order to be recognized as an Indian. In the nineteen seventies, being recognized as an Indian, was critical, and here tribal affiliation was not a major consideration. We didn't dress up as nineteenth century Cherokee or as the Apache Choctaw Lakota. Clink of Jiwei, BLACKFORD are Haida headrest. We dressed up as the Indian dressed. We dressed up in a manner to substantiate the cultural lie that attract us and we did so with a passion. I have my own box of photographs pictures of me and my Indian outfits. Pictures of me being Indian. Pictures of me and groups of other Indians. Not wanting to be mistaken for a Mexican or a wide I grew my hair long. Bought a fringed leather pouch to hang off my belt through a forest strand bone choker around my neck, made a head band out of old handkerchief and strapped on a beaded belt buckle that I had bought at a trading post on a reservation in Wyoming. Trinkets of the Trade I did I did resist feathers? But. That was my only concession to cultural, sanity? Not that university was my first experience with narrow parameters of race in one, thousand, nine, hundred, ninety, four I, fell into a job as a junior executive at the Bank of America, in San Francisco. Junior executive sounds grand, doesn't it? But as I discovered after the first few days, this is what the bank called men who worked as tellers. As opposed to women who worked as tellers who were just called tellers. These terms though I didn't understand it at the time. We're innate promises that men had possibilities of advancement while women did not. In any case, it was a boring job. And, by the end of the first month I was looking for another career. I didn't find it but I did meet a woman who worked for a steamship company. Every week on Friday she would come in and deposit the company's earnings. I was bored. She was bored. So we talked. The steamship company she worked for was called Columbus Lines. And irony that was not lost on me. And occasionally she told me they would take on passengers. Who earned their one way passage to Australia while working aboard the ship? As, it happened. I knew quite a bit about Australia. Just before I moved to San Francisco. I had worked at South. Shore Lake Tahoe a gambling fun. In the Sun Mecca in the Sierra Nevada mountains where I dated a woman from Australia, her name was Sharon or Sherry. And she told me all about the country. It's a beaches, the outback, the sharks. To hear her. Tell at the place was bristling with adventure. And three weeks into our relationship I applied for an immigration visa. At eight weeks, relationship was over. At the twelve week mark just as I was packing to go to San Francisco, my visa arrived. I, put it in the box with books and forgot about it. It's amazing. The way things come around sometimes. The next week. I call the woman from the steamship company. About, what the chances of my getting a one way job on one of the company's ships and she told me she thought they were good. I must admit a hardly contain my excitement. Tom, king on a tramp steamer. Tom King Saline often a great adventure. Tom! King Explorer of known worlds. That was me. So was disappointed when she came back the next week to tell me that the list of people who wanted to work their way to Australia was quite long. And then nothing would come open for at least two year. However, there was a ship sailing for New Zealand in a week, and there was one spot left on the crew if I wanted it, she said it was mine. And so went. Packed everything I owned in a two sheet, metal trunks and hauled them to the docks by the end of the week. I was at sea. The ship was a German vessel out of Hamburg. The SS Cap Colorado. The captain was German. The crew was German. The Cook was German. I wasn't German. As a matter of fact, none of the crew was sure what I was. When I told him I, was Cherokee or to keep matters simple North American Indian. They were intrigued and suspicious. The Cook, who could speak passable? English told me that he had read all of Carl Mayes novels and had a fair idea what Indians were supposed to look like, and that I wasn't what he had imagined. You're not the Indian I had in mind, he said. Here was a small dilemma. Of all the crew members on that ship. The one person I didn't want to offend was the cook. I knew that Indians came in all shapes and sizes and colors, but I hadn't read Karl. My had no idea who he was. The Cook, read my, but had never actually seen in Indian. So, we compromised. I confess that I was a mixed blood, and he allowed that this was possible, since my had described full blood Apaches and not mixed blood Cherokees. I discovered some years later that my had never seen an Indian either. But on board. That ship was probably just as well that I did not know this. I spent almost a year in New Zealand I worked as dear color beer bottle sorter, a freezer, packer and a photographer. I like the country and might well have stayed had not been for a phone call. I got early one morning. It was a British sounding man who introduced himself as an official with the Immigration Department. If, I'm not mistaken. He said clipping off the edge of each consonant. You enter the country eleven months ago on a thirty day. Tourist Visa and are therefore in violation of New Zealand immigration, law. I agree with probably correct. When my we expect you to leave. As I, said I liked. The place had no plans to leave so I asked him if there was any chance of applying for immigration visa. Turned out my immigration man had only newly arrived from England the month before to take up his duties and wasn't sure if this was possible, but he would check on it. He told me. In the meantime what I give him some of my particulars. It was a usual stuff. Of hair color vise height. Weight race. Black Brown six foot six to three pounds. Indian. Dear me. He said I don't believe we take applications from Indians. I have to admit I was stunned. Why not I wanted to know. Policy said the immigration man. Do you get many I? Asked Oh yes. He said thousands. Now I hadn't heard of any mass exodus of native peoples from Canada. From Canada or the states. These Indians I asked him. Where where are they from Alberta's? Era Zona South Dakota Oklahoma. Did me no, said my British voice there from you know. New Delhi Bombay. When current told me Your father wouldn't let me take her to the prom because he didn't want her. Dating Mexicans I told her I wasn't Mexican. I was Indian. When the immigration officer told me I couldn't apply for a visa because I was Indian I told him it wasn't east. Indian, North American Indian. As if that was going to settle anything. Without missing a beat in at the same time, injecting a note of enthusiasm into his otherwise precise voice, the immigration man says. What do you mean like cowboys and Indians? The next week I was on a ship for Australia. As it turned out. That immigration visa had still good. As for Karen well, I went to the prom that year. But I went alone. The first three or four months I was in Australia, traveled around working my way up the east coast, and into the interior. At rockhampton I made pocket money helping a man in his son. Dismantle is small house. At tennant Creek I worked at a mine shoveling or into saks. In Adelaide I clean trucks. But in all my travels, I never met an indigenous Australian. In New Zealand I met a great many Maoris, and while there had been friction between Maoris and Europeans the two groups team to organize themselves around uneasy peace between equals. In Australia there was no such piece, just a damp sweltering campaign of discrimination that you could feel on your skin and smell in your hair. The aboriginal people I was told were failing. They were dying off at such a rate that they wouldn't last the decade. To see them passing away their problem, according to the men who gathered in the bars after work was that they did not have the same mental capacities as whites. There was no point in educating them because they had no interest in proven their lot, and we're perfectly happy living in poverty and squalor. The curious thing about these stories. was that I had heard them all before? New Them in fact by heart. Eventually I wound up in Sydney in lied my way into a job as a journalist with a third rate magazine called. Everybody's a disingenuous name. If ever, there was one. I got the job in part because I was an American and Indian the Assad combination being too much for folks to resist. and. I was sent on jobs that required the firm hand of a reporter of exotic background. Files, stories about teenagers having a good time, drinking themselves into a stupor in jumping off cliffs into the ocean. About escort chimpanzee around the city and showing her the sights. About spending exhilarating afternoon with the Self proclaimed King of Tic TAC, toe, discussing strategies and secret moves. Almost certainly, the high point of my journalistic career was dragging around one of those blow up dollies around on a date that included dinner and a movie. You'll probably think poorly of me, but I didn't really mind doing these idiotic assignments. Actually many of them were fun, but best of all I had a professional job. Race which periodically been somewhat of a burden was suddenly somewhat of an advantage. There was a photographer who worked for the magazine. Let's say that after all these years I've forgotten his name. So, we'll call him, Lee. Lee was a decent enough guy, but on Friday afternoons when we got paid and adjourn the local pub to drink and review the week he would turn into a bore. The, kind of bore, who, after a half, a dozen beers and a few whisky chasers like to expound what was wrong with the country. Government was at the top of his list followed closely by Australia's Abo- problem. Abloh Australia's derogatory term for aboriginal people. And because there were no aboriginals people in the immediate vicinity, Lee spent many of these smokey evenings sharp in his soggy wit on me. Leded know anymore about Indians than had the cook on the tramp steamer or Carl Meyer, the immigration man, but he reckoned that North Americans had taken care of the problem in a reasonably expedient. I'm embarrassed and cannot repeat his exact words, but the gist of it was that north. Americans had shot native men and bread native women until they were white. Now in a perverse way. I've always liked people likely. By large easy to deal with their racism is honest and straightforward. You don't have to go looking for in a phrase or gesture, and you don't have to wonder if you're being too sensitive. Best of all, remind me how the past continues to inform the president. One Monday least up by my desk with a present. It was a cartoon that he had gotten one of the guys in the art department to work up. It showed a stereotypical Indian in feathers and leather with a bull's eye on his crotch and flies buzzing around him. Office of Chief Screeching Eagle Goals Dean. The caption read Pale and bribes acceptable in the form of checks or money orders. No silver, please. Just above the Indian was happy bar Mitzvah Kema Sabi, and just below was only living Cherokee Ju-. Least by by desk. Waiting for me to smile I told him was funny as hell, and he said yeah, everyone to thought was scream. I had the cartoon matter on a board and stuck it on my desk. I still have it just in case. I forget. So was unanimous. Everyone knew who Indians were. Everyone knew what we look like even Indians. Standing in that parking lot and Oklahoma with my brother, looking at the statue of will rogers I realized for perhaps the first time I didn't know. Miraculously I didn't know how I wanted to represent Indians. My brother was right. Will? Rogers did not look like an Indian. Worse as I cast my mind across the list of native artists side come west to photograph many of them friends. I realized that a good number of them didn't look. Indian either. Yet how can something that has never existed the Indian? Have Foreman power while something that is alive and kicking, Indians are invisible. Edward, sheriff Kurdish. James, Finnemore Cooper. George. Catlin Paul Kane Charles Bird King Carl. My Atlanta Braves. The Washington redskins the Chicago Blackhawks, Pontiac the car, not the Indian land lakes butter calcium it baking soda crazy Horse Malt Liquor a man called horse iron eyes, cody dances with wolves, the searchers, the Indian motorcycle company American Spirit Tobacco Native American. Barbie, chippewas Springs Golf Course Jon Augusta Stone the Cleveland. Cleveland Indians Disney's Pocahontas Jeronimos shoes. The Calgary stampede Cherokee brand underwear, the improved order of Red Men Ralph Hubbard in his boy scout troop, mutual of Omaha Buffalo Bill's wild west show the Boston Tea Party. Francis, Hamilton cushing William Wadsworth long fell the Bank of Montreal, chiefs trucking grey, the sue spaceman, red man, chewing tobacco, grateful dead concerts and dream catcher perfume. In the end there is no reason for the Indian to be real. The Indian simply has to exist imaginations. But for those of us who are Indian this juncture between reality and imagination is akin to life and death for to be seen as real for people to imagine us this Indians. We must be authentic. In the past authenticity was simply in the eye of the beholder Indians. Who looked? Indian were authentic. Authenticity only became a problem for native people in the twentieth century. While it is true that mixed blood and full blood rivalries predate this period, the question of who was an Indian, who was not was easier to settle. What made it easy? was that most Indians lived on reserves of one sort or another out of sight of Europeans, and it strong ties to a particular community. and the majority of those people who looked Indians and those who did not at least had a culture and language in common. This is no longer true as it once was. For many native people now live in cities with only tenuous ties to where reserve for a nation. Many, no longer speak their native language a gift of colonialism. And the question of identity has become as much personal matter as it is a matter of blood. In Scott Momaday has suggested that being native is an idea that an individual has of themselves. Mamata who has Kiowa is not suggested. Anyone who wants to can imagine themselves to be an Indian. He has simply acknowledging. That language and the narrow definitions of culture are not the only ways identity can be constructed. Yet in the absence of visual confirmation, these types stones race culture language blood still form a kind of authenticity test, a racial reality game that contemporary native people are forced to play and here are some of the questions. We abort on reserve. Small rural towns with high native populations will do cities will not. Do you speak your native language? Not a few phrases here and their fluency is the key, no fluency, no Indian. Participate in your tribe ceremonies, being a singer or a dancer is a plus but not absolutely required. Are you full blood? Are you status. Are you enrolled? Now you may suspect me of hyperbole, but many of these were. I was asked by a selection committee when I applied for a Ford Foundation Grant for American. Indians in order to complete my PhD. I've told this story a number of times at various events in each time I tell it one or two non natives have come up to me afterwards and apologized for the stereotypical attitudes of a few misguided whites. But the truth of the matter, the truth of the matter is that the selection committee was composed entirely of native. People. And the joke, if there is one is the most of the committee couldn't pass this test either. For these questions, we're not designed to major academic potential to ensure diversity. They were designed to exclude. For the real value of authenticity is in the rarity of thing. Of course outside grant selection committees, and possibly guards at the new and improved, US, border-crossing not many people ask these questions they don't have to. Their content simply to look at you. If you don't look Indian. You aren't if you don't look white. You're not. As pulled out of the McDonald's parking lot. I began thinking about my dilemma in earnest. Edward Sheriff Curtis had been successful in raising money and getting his photographs in print because he was fulfilling a national fantasy. And because he documented the only antiquity North America would ever half. Indians might not have been Greeks to. Romans or Egyptians but Indians were all the continent had to offer to a society that relish the past I could not photograph that particular antiquity, not because it had vanished, but because it had changed. When I come up with my bright idea for a photographic expedition, I sat down with the number of granting agencies to to see if there's any chance of getting some financial support for the project. Several of them thought the idea had merit, but they weren't sure why I wanted to do it. Which Indians did I have in mind they wanted to know. How would I find these Indians how it taking photographs of native artists? Benefit native people. Had J. P. Morgan ask that same question. If Edward Curtis Curtis probably would've told him that. Such photographs were necessary because the Indian was dying, and if he hesitated, the noble red man would be gone, and that part of Americans antiquity would be lost forever. Curtis might even have thrown up John Audubon been autobahns, great endeavour to paint the birds of North America, many of whom were on the verge of extinction, and might well have been helped on their way since an order to paint the birds. Audubon I had to kill them. So. They wouldn't moving spoil the city. How will taking photographs of native artists benefit native people? It wasn't a question I would have asked. It was a question and understood this part, clearly, that came out of western Judeo Christian sense of responsibility that contain the unexamined implication that the lives of native people needed improvement. I knew without a doubt. The pictures I was taking would not change the lives of the people I photographed any more than the arrivals and departures of say anthropologists on native reserves had done anything much to improve the lives of the people they came to study. I teach at a university so I know all about the enthusiasm for creating social change, the intellectual and artistic activity, especially within what we ironically called humanities. And while we've had our fair share of literary critics who have believed in the potential of literature, Sir Philip Sidney Matthew Arnold F-foreign Queenie. Leave us. It goes without saying I think that apart from recent feminist and Marxist critics who seek to engage literature in the enterprise of social and political transportation. The study of literature, especially in the wake of new criticism has not had a sustained political component. So I was in many ways delighted to see postcolonial studies arrive on campus. Not only because it expanded the cannon by insisting that we read, consider and teach the literatures of colonized peoples. But because it promised to give native people a place at the table. I know that postcolonial studies is not a panacea for much of anything I know that never promised explicitly to make the colonized world a better place. Call the Nice people. It did however carry with it. The implicit expectation that through exposure to new literatures and cultures and challenges to hegemonic assumptions power structures lives would be made better well at least the lives of the theorists. And perhaps that was it. Perhaps I was traveling around the country, taking portraits of native artists because the project promised to make my life better to make me feel valuable to make me feel important. How will photograph? Native artists benefit native people. You see this basic kind of question in the in various guises on the human study portion of grant applications, and you hear a debate on talk shows and in churches. Politicians use it as a ploy because they know that political memory is not even short term. Advertisers transform the question into gleaming promise that if you buy their products, deodorants, frozen pizzas magic beans, your life will improve. It is the Great Western come on the North American con caucasoid sting. Actually I'm no better. If you've been paying attention, you will have noticed that I've defined identity politics and a rather narrow and self-serving fashion appearance. I WANNA. Look in the that you will see me. As Indian because I WANNA be Indian. Even though being Indian and looking Indian is really more a disadvantage than it is a luxury. Just not for me. Middle Class Indian such as myself can, after all afford the burden of looking Indian. There's little danger that we'll be stuffed into the trunk of a police cruiser and dropped on the outskirts of Saskatoon. Not much chance we'll come before the courts and be incarcerated for a longer period of time that are non Indian brethren, hardly any risk that our children will be taken from us because we are unable to cope with a potential of poverty. That sort of thing happens to those other Indians. My relatives, my friends. Just not me. To date I photographed about five hundred native artists. In that time, some of the people such as the Navajo artist. Carl Gorman have died. Before I finish, more will pass away and new. We'll take their place. I may never finish. The project may never see the book I had imagined when my brother and I headed off that first time almost ten years ago. But it doesn't matter. The photographs themselves are longer the issue neither of the questions of identity. What's important or the stories? I've heard along the way and the stories I've told stories we make up to try to set the world's straight. Take will rogers story. For instance it's yours. Do with it what you will. Make it a topic of discussion for a scholarly group at a scholarly conference. Put Her on the web. Forget it. But don't say in the years to come that you would have lived your life differently. If only you would hurt this story. You've heard it now. You. Writer Thomas. With the second of his two thousand and three master lectures the truth about stories and native narrative. As he mentioned in the lecture. Thomas King is also a photographer I love. Photography I started off as a commercial photographer a New Zealand. Then I went over to Australian, did some journalism and photojournalism over there and when I came back to North America I tried to work as a commercial photographer, but I hated it, and so I gave it up, and just did photography for myself. Just did exit mission photography I. Suppose You'd call it fine art photography, and so I, took it out of the realm of having to make a living with it, and into the realm of trying to create something. You can go to CBC. Dot Ca slash ideas to find a link to some of his work. They're striking images, many in black and white, including a lot of portrait's. I mean I told you that I. was an introvert not much of a social animal. But photography allows me to meet people and still stay apart. 'cause I'm behind the camera. and. That whole world is through a Lens. That Lens provides a certain amount of isolation. Some photography will tell you that Photography allows them to get in with people to understand them, but. For me photography while it does allow me to. Meet people. It still maintains a kind of artistic distance. That I like for some reason. Don't ask me. Why are you still inviting them to tell you their story through the image Eddie approaches sitting. How'd you? Just get into a conversation with them. A lot of work with Improv jazz musicians don't a lot of work. Native artists. And it's just a matter of a conversation. Photography becomes part of that conversation. Writer and photographer Thomas came. You can hear his next Bassey lecture called. Let me entertain you on tomorrow's show. The Massey lectures are produced by Philip Coulter. The producer for this episode is Lisa Godfrey. Technical producers for ideas are Danielle. Do Val and Austin Palmer? Web Producer is Lisa a USA. Nikola which is the show senior producer? Greg Kelly is the executive producer of ideas and Dine Allah is. Laura! For more CBC PODCASTS GO TO CBC DOT CA Slash podcasts,

Edward Sheriff Curtis North America Australia writer Thomas King Canada United States Karen Oklahoma Sherman Indian School New Zealand Roger Indian Paraphernalia CBC Rogers Massey Gerald. vizner Congress Memorial University
09-24-19 Native in the spotlight: Cheyenne Kippenberger

Native America Calling

59:00 min | 1 year ago

09-24-19 Native in the spotlight: Cheyenne Kippenberger

"Welcome Welcome to native America calling from Studio Forty nine in Albuquerque. I'm Tara Gate would every year dozens of Nita women from across the US and Canada Canada come to the gathering of Nations POW wow to compete for the title of Miss Indian World Cheyenne can burger currently holds the title and is the first seminole omission member to carry this honour today. We'll chat with her about raising awareness. Some mental health issues and promoting positive portrayals of native Americans join us today as we live right after national native news This is National Native News Antonio Gonzalez a jury has been selected in the trial of former Indian health service pediatrician accused of sexually assaulting young male patients. The trial began Monday at the federal courthouse in rapid city according to prosecutors Stanley Weber served at Pine Ridge Between Nineteen Ninety five and two thousand one prosecutors say Weber gained access to children when they were patients in his clinic and eventually invited get them to his home where he gave them food alcohol and money grooming them for sexual activity. The boys ranged in age from nine to late teens. Jury selection selection lasted. Most of the first day for teenagers were selected with two alternates to be excused before deliberation begins at the end of the trial lawyers made opening statements Tuesday followed by witness testimony assistant secretary for Indian Affairs Tara Sweeney on Monday announced. The Department of the Interior is investing in one point two million dollars and a tribal broadband grant program the program will offer awards to try to deploy broadband initiatives in Indian country. The announcement Smith was made at the national tribal broadband summit taking place in Washington. DC meanwhile tribal leaders recently urged the Federal Communications Commission to do more to to expand broadband access in Indian country. Olivia rheingold has more about half of tribal lands in Montana. Don't have access to broadband. That's Internet fast just enough to use on your smartphone and stream movies. The Government Accountability Office says the Federal Communications Commission isn't doing enough to expand access that what was the major takeaway from a hearing for the Senate Indian Affairs Committee last week Republican Senator Steve Daines of Montana. We must act small steps to improve opportunity of these. He's very underserved areas. They're hamstrung by sub-standard wireless as was broadband connections Montana's other Senator Democrat Jon Tester wasn't able to to testify Wednesday because of a conflicting vote four-pack Tribal Chairman Floyd Azure says his constituents have been pressing him to increase broadband coverage. Everybody wants but even my wife she's. She's she loves her phone thinks she goes anyplace. Without Verizon announced it would end service in parts of northeastern Montana earlier this year Azure says his work phone is rising and it still works but there are some dead spots throughout the reservation that includes stretch of highway two. That's a dead zone for his work phone and and his personal one which is covered through local provider Niemand tribal ownership because we're not get any help from any place else. We're going to beat ourselves as your says. The tribes could fix instead zones that a commercial carrier like verizon might not be financially incentivized to just eighteen out of five hundred seventy three federally recognized tribes hold licenses this is to provide broadband that includes the black feet tribe the only tribal nation in Montana with a license for high speed wireless Internet the GAO report says that the FCC should expand leasing options for broadband signals and data collection on tribal lands for National Native News. I'm Olivia Reingold in billings Montana. Uh Pipes will no longer be sold at the pipes DOE NATIONAL MONUMENT VISITOR CENTER IN MINNESOTA. The decision comes after years long consultation with tribes pipes are central to many trouble cultural and ceremonial practices in two thousand thirteen government to government consultation began with overwhelming calls to end pipe cells at the monument a program which employs native carvers to share culture and history with the public will continue an open house was held last week to discuss the decision the the changes expected to happen later this year I man Tony Gonzalez. The national native news is produced by Colonic Broadcast Corporation and with funding by the corporation for public broadcasting from northern Minnesota Red Lake Nation Foods Foods is pleased to support this show and share their bounty of the harvest wild rice products and wild fruit jams jellies and syrups produced by American Indians and available at Red Lake Nation Foods Dot com support for law and justice related programming provided by Hobbs Strauss House Dean and Walker L. l. p. a national law firm dedicated to promoting and defending tribal rights for more than thirty years more information available at Hobbs Strauss dot dot com native voice one the native American Radio Network. This is native America calling. I'm Tara gatewood before the reigning Miss Indian World Cheyenne Kippenberger woke up one morning and decided she needed to do something to get out of her comfort zone for for her. The choice was to run for Miss Florida seminal two thousand eight. She ran and won. Although she still had her doubts she decided to keep going and compete eight in the Miss Indian world pageant during the gathering of nations this year as she prepared herself she thought where will this take me she started by sewing dresses and practicing her talent of demonstrating traditional seminal hairstyle she still struggled with anxiety she ultimately overcame that and triumphant try and came to the top winning. The best interview best talent and ultimately the title of Miss Indian World Today we're going to visit is it with her about her journey to hold this prestigious title and what her plans are for the future and you can join the conversation to the number to dial is one eight hundred nine six six two four eight. Do you remember that moment when she was crowned Miss Indian world. Maybe you had a chance to see some of the traditional talent and saw her explanation explanation of a part of her culture anything. You wouldn't tell her you can call in right now. One eight hundred nine nine six two four eight and right now it is my honor to welcome Cheyenne Kippenberger the Twenty Nineteen Twenty Twenty Miss Indian world to Studio forty-nine here. She's an enrolled member of the seminole tribe of Florida our a pleasure to have her here Cheyenne welcome and feel free to further introduce yourself for say hello to the listeners. Thank you good morning to hint thou moment to hotel get Shan Dan courtroom. Yeah get your hotel Edem. in my language I just introduced myself and my English name Shan and my Indian name was given to me by my grandmother and it is thick and in my language that translates to fire and show you something that is really coming forward with all this is important culture is because it was your culture that brought you to this place as well as reminded you that how important it is that we talk about it we we share it and so tell me a little bit about what Miss Indian world means to you and keeping culture alive being missing NEOM world is one. It's and honor you know getting to hold that title until where that Crown and sash go around you know not just in-country here in the states but anywhere in the world you know Oh you you represent all native and indigenous people you are that platform to uplift their voices you know to to shed light. I on things that normally wouldn't get that attention and so you know getting to be in this position. It's it's a little and ten sometimes but it's empowering. It really makes me feel like I can do anything and I can do anything for my people at that you know but I think it's also really important that that people know that this title isn't something that you know I myself and like women in the past have done you know to wear this crown and sash cash and say I'm just missing in world we cause we love our people. We love our people. We love who we are. We love our culture and we love sharing and we love learning about other people's cultures as well and that's what being missing in world is about in so for you. Why did you want to step into this position? What did it mean into that title Miss Indian world even before you started running you know at first like you mentioned in my little bio it was I was really hesitant hesitant? I was really scared and I went through this really kind of dark place with myself where I was questioning my worth and if I was a good representative if I could go out there and do my people well but ultimately I got to the the end Russian that who gets to say they ran in the missing in world pageant. Like how many girls have you ever met that really gets to say that and so to me. It wasn't really even about winning or having the title itself. It was more about the experience I was so excited. I had never been to albuquerque before and I thought you know what I had had such a good experience in my journey with Miss World or Miss Excuse me Miss Florida seminal and I was so proud of the work that I got to do and I thought if I if I am deemed worthy enough to hold this title I'm going to give it my all and giving it my all also meant you know in the preparation process that journey into going coming into the pageant as well you had to give it all and it was beautiful. It was a really big growing experience going into the pageant as well as the pageant week AAC so I I really enjoyed all of it and you know the sisterhood that was built through it the bonding that you get to do in the you know next thing you know you're crying about like the ex boyfriend you had in sixth grade with the other girls and it's just funny but there's a lot of memories behind all of it and all of it is in the foundation of you know being proud of who we are as indigenous women in so there were thousands of people watching touching you know the competition as well as that moment when you were crown. WHOA was going through your head when you heard you were gonNA hold that title? Oh Man Dan I was praying. I was praying so hard. If you watch that video you WanNa see me looking down and I'm just praying and you know not so win anything like that. It was to kind of put my gratitude onto the universe. I was so thankful for how great my experience was you know of of course it gets intense moments and we get overwhelmed because you know there's so many things going on and it's tight schedule but the experience was so magnificent like I felt so many good things I had all these interactions with different people that I would have never met unless I decided to run in this pageant and overall. I felt like I needed to I needed to thank everything and everyone that kind of led up to that point and so after they finish announcing all the best categories I'm sitting there and I'm looking down and I I was just going through my list like thank you albuquerque. Thank you for you know the girls that were competing with me. Thank you for my family being here. Thank you for my friends being here. Thank you to my community mutiny members that are here but thank you to like my ancestors. Thank you to the spirits that are with me and next thing you know when I heard representing the awesome that was all I heard in the waterworks just started and I was just started bawling my eyes out and I turned around and I looked at my family. I was just like I I did it like I really did this and it was an overwhelming feeling of not just gratitude but I was proud of myself really really really proud of myself in talk a little bit more about really the mountain that you overcame because dealing with anxiety is not an easy thing and then especially putting yourself right. They're the middle of you know thousands of is on you because there are people who do face a lot of anxiety and they aren't able to always be able to do something like that and you you really you really did something not only for yourself but I think to encourage others who face some of this any talks about that Oh yeah I mean I really struggled with my mental health all through you know high school and college and leading into this too and I was diagnosed with with with this person hey with depression anxiety diversion and I was really angry in the beginning 'cause as I felt like there was something wrong with me. I was like why like why do I have to be different. Why does there have to be something wrong with me? You know with my mind and I started going to therapy because my mom made me go. Actually I had this. I was just in this really dark place in this whole that I couldn't get myself out of this one day. My mom was like all right. This is enough. You need to get help and you know I'm very fortunate we have a CB Center for be behavioral health on my reservation back home and so there's therapists right there you know just willing to help and I kind of had to wrap my head around it but when I did start going and I got my diagnosis and she started explaining to me what depression was and what anxiety was. I feel so angry anymore. You know I was actually sitting there and I was like Oh. My Gosh like this isn't my fault you know depression is a chemical comical imbalance in your brain and you know all these like after effects like anxiety and all these things come with it and it makes it so hard for people and so many of us suffer from from it but we're so scared to talk about it out of shame out of embarrassment and I was there. I was that person I was so ashamed of feeling like that of being like that ad and in the beginning I tried to I guess take that holistic approach. I didn't WanNa take any medications so I just kept doing therapy kept doing therapy and you know it was being were communicated with my family about what was going on but it still wasn't enough and eventually decided to get on antidepressants and that was what really really helped me and then I went through a whole other journey of trying to get rid of the shame in being on medications because people are like you're on meds like what are what are your on meds for really crazy pills and I'm like I'm not crazy dude like do you wanna see crazy but yeah I mean and if it wasn't for antidepressants you know I really really don't know what I would've done in honesty and so my journey was a lot of ups and downs and you know even now I still have these days where I have to sit. There and I have to really really really dig deep and I have to do my affirmations and you have to call my sister and my mom to kind of get that uplift that I need but I just I just don't care anymore like if you think I'm crazy fine if you think medications are fine but this was my journey and I have no shame in it anymore at all. I'm proud of who I am proud of what went through because if I didn't go through these things things I wouldn't be here. I wouldn't be the Cheyenne that I am you know and so I was laughing when we were at Santa. Fe Indian school kept telling him like no shame in this game. There's no tame in this game. Maybe like I am. I am who I am and all through like being missing world. I feel like I need to be genuine about that needs to be real L. about that. I have to be honest about it because I am not put together all the time like hey listen. I Know My dresses look pretty and I learned how to do. My island are really well recently but I do not have it together all the time and it's okay. It is okay to feel that way. It's okay you know to to be sad. It's okay to be angry but don't stay. Stay in that place you know talk about it and you know not just to the kids I tell them to talk about it but the parents especially you know talk to your kids about these things. It's really uncomfortable I know but you know you need to. We need to start normalising these things in our communities so many of our kids suffer and and we have this suicide epidemic going on and you know we need to protect our babies man like we we have that responsibility as a community to make sure that we're loving loving each other taking care of each other and not just physically but emotionally sure and sometimes it's hard to have those kind of conversations and you're really opening up something that a lot of times people keep to themselves and you're in a position to to work directly with young people. They see a young face when you're telling these stories stories in I think sometimes that opens up things that other avenues can't will continue here hang tight native America calling when it's time for mothers to introduce solid food to their babies some need of mothers sometimes opt for traditional choices as the World Health Organization recommends starting solid or complementary foods at about six months on the next lead of America calling. We'll hear about starting babies maybes out with healthy eating habits support support for this program provided by the American Indian Higher Education consortium the collective spirit and unifying voice of thirty seven tribal colleges and universities cities for over thirty years a heck has worked to ensure that tribal sovereignty is recognised and respected and that tribal colleges and universities are included in this nations higher education system information on a tribal college or university near you at A. H. E. C. DOT ORG in certain sections. Then it John uh-huh this is need of America calling territory would in we are talking with our September native in the spotlight she despite Light Cheyenne Koeppen Burger bigger. She is a thirty six miss Indian world our pleasure to have her here these phone lines. They're open. If you WANNA talk to Cheyenne calling right now one eight hundred nine six is two eight four eight. We're going to say hi to a caller out of Hollywood Florida. We're going to say hi to kitty WHO's tuned in online kid. He thinks are giving us a ring year on air. Hello hello go ahead. You're on air. Hi San so I know that you know me and I just WanNa say you know you have made our a tribe so incredibly proud you're such an amazing role model for not only just needed girls but native voices well native youth and even older older people you know you you're teaching so many things that we haven't we haven't processed yet and if you're starting conversations that really need to be spoken about and you know earlier you were talking about the stigma against anti depressants and I also wanted to add you know you're sitting. There and you said there are some days where you don't have it all together in. You know I applaud you for that. I applaud you for admitting that on live radio. You know nobody's put together. Nobody nobody perfect in certainly not missing being world from you know also there's someday some things society enforces on like you know. Get out of bed every day and go to work and do your share and be a productive member of society but you know there are some days where you don't feel like getting out of bed. You don't feel like leaving the house and you don't have anything to be productive for you. Don't want to contribute a share to society and that's okay too just because if you don't roll out of bed and and contribute your shirt society daily is okay you know you could take a break worth is not based on your productivity. Remember that you're worth not based on your productivity absolutely not we'll kitty. Thank you for giving us. It's a ring there in Hollywood for tuned in online join us to one eight hundred nine nine six two eight four eight. We're GONNA hear now from Scott in Massachusetts. Who's also oh tuned in online Scott? Things were given a ring. You're on ear. I I always just really struck by the bravery they have talked about mental health issues especially amongst natives. I know K kind of talked about this guy but I was curious as to if you could just like expand upon on your experience because you had the opportunity to travel across the nation representing natives at large if you've if you've run into this kind of recurring theme of the Suppression of Mental Health Issue and kind of if you have any insights into how to move forward with that and whether it's drug dependence depression alcoholism which seems to be both things that are stereotyped within the community and things that people struggle to come out with if you have any like incites upon that I just think it's really courageous if you to talk about these things because it's important and it's needed and deserved attention Scott Thank Hugh for giving us a ring great to hear from somebody out of Massachusetts. You can share your thoughts to at one eight hundred nine six two eight four H. I. N. go ahead. Oh definitely I mean in all my travels when we get to exchange especially with people around my age and younger as well you know mental health and Drugs and alcohol have is an issue that affects if not all of our communities he no. It's something that as native and indigenous people we really really struggle from and I think it has a lot to do with the intergenerational trauma that we you know we've pass on not knowingly either and and you know we pass it on and we pass it on and so I see that I kind of came to this realization where it's like back in the day you know when settlers and colonisation I occurring. We were not thinking about comfort ability. We were thinking about survival. You know so putting our feelings of you know whether it was Zayed's. Sadness anger on the back burner was what we had to do to survive. We had to think about you know moving migrating whatever it was and so sitting there and kind of like talking about your feelings was just not something that we had time for and so and many of the communities that I've been to I've talked to different people about their struggles goals with mental health as well but you know for instance yesterday when I was at the Santa Fe Indian school. I'm very open about my journey with it and I I put it all out there for everybody to see. I'm an open book. You know so afterwards when some of the kids were coming back to me and they're like thank you for talking about that. You know because sometimes I feel like that. Sometimes I feel like he know maybe maybe not be. We're like worthy of something or like. I'm good enough to do this and thank you for doing that and thank you for talking about how you know. You may have felt like that one day or even still feel like that sometimes but like you're missing world and that's that's why I do it because I felt so alone. You know I felt really alone. At times I and it was weird because when you're in that type of head space you push everybody away and then you're sitting there and you're like I'm by myself like nobody cares like my friends. Don't WanNa see me. They don't want to hang out with me. They feel bad for me and you know that's in the depression talking and none of it's true and so I definitely see like a reoccurring I just see it everywhere and even out of native communities too and so it's just something that we need to start talking about. You know make it a normal conversation at dinner and let's stop feeling so shameful about these things you know we had to fight the fight back in the the day but right now this is our fight you know protecting our our mind our hearts and our spirits in our bodies. Thank you so much. I N N doubt you can chat with author to at one eight hundred nine nine six two eight four eight is the number in China. I think something I'm also hearing you saying is understanding your own worth and everything in this world or not everything a lot of things in this world are there to kind of feed the other side in sometimes even coming from some of our tribal communities there are a lot of challenges and you know I was recently reading an article about native women being paid less this and and so there's so much that in this world comes at us that doesn't tell us you know take a moment remember. You are worth something remember when you come from a long line of people who survived and you have so many options in front of you and there's so much negativity everywhere we turn in in our communities in the world Shan what would you like to share about cutting through that negatively and and really getting to that point where you are filling centered or or oh you are taking in all of these things that came to us because the sacrifices before generations. How do we break away from the negativity? You know growing up my mom was always so big on positive affirmations and speaking things into existence and you know really praying and I didn't appreciate that when I was younger and so when I got older I realized I it clicked what she was doing. It clicked and I was like wow you know there's power in being in a really really really like pretty much crappy situation and still finding the light in something like that's that's powerful to do. Do It is harder to be positive like ninety nine percent of the time than it is to be negative all the time in an there's this quote that I have I have it written on a sticky and I used to keep it on my mirror in my bathroom. It said miserable people can be anywhere in have everything and still be miserable. Happy People can be nowhere and have nothing still be happy and so I always think about that and so when it comes to self worth you know I had to kind of really start thinking about you know like the western kind of like the beauty standards and like the the productivity standards and things like that and just how those things were forced on us. You know like being the skinniest being the prettiest you know having the clearest skin like wasn't what we were thinking about. You know we eat good did and you know so we were worried about that and I definitely feel like with kitty was saying earlier about sometimes you just don't want to get out of bed and because because we have this ideology of if you're not productive you're not worth anything you know that really starts to affect what you think about yourself because suppression sometimes you can't even get out of bed. Let alone shower. Change your clothes. Brush your hair. You know things like that. That can be those little steps are triumphs for somebody. That's really going through a bad depressive episode and so when it comes to self worth I feel like a lot of it is one the support that you have behind you. You have to know that people love I love you you are loved and you are adored and the those people around you. You need to make sure that you have people around you are filling up with that. That aren't take constantly taking taking away from you and it yesterday we talked about that as well with the students at Santa Fe Indian school and I told them I was like when you start doing better for yourself sometimes times like people just start disappearing from your circle and it's okay like let them go. Cut Him loose. You know like you don't need that around you. You need people that are going to constantly uplift. Did you constantly be a safe space for you to talk and those are the things that helped me. You know really find myself worth and I had to learn to love myself self even the parts of myself that I'm not happy with and that's okay but that's what makes me you know and it's all over instagram. Everybody hears it all the time but you are your ancestors while you were prayed into existence. There are strong prayers behind every single. One of these indigenous lives. These native lives that are still here. Everybody has a purpose you know we are all here for a reason and you know it was it was hard art to kind of accept that because you know I wasn't necessarily the smartest school I wasn't the skinniest I wasn't the prettiest story. I didn't have the nicest car things like that Adin. Those are things that just don't matter those aren't the things that feed your spirit at all. Those are the things that they fill your heart up and so find those things that can be yoga could could be music. It could be running. It could be basket weaving or sewing or beating all these things are are arts and crafts are traditional ways like those are medicine and when you find those things and you sit there and you just enjoy sitting at the coffee table with your sister beating that's medicine and that's hailing you. Cheyenne greet words. Thank you for sharing and I'm sure people have some things they WANNA share to. All you gotTa do is dial in one eight hundred nine nine six two eight four eight is the number in Cheyenne. When you're feeling this way and you understand really how far you can take things and you start to look at okay? What can I do with my life? What can I change Where can I bring some of the light to dark and you are very concerned with how native Americans are portrayed not only in the media but even even you know how people are first introduced to native Americans this role that you're in you may be the first native American somebody meets maybe the only native American American in their entire life and so there is something really important when we do as native people even a program like this introducing people to the truth truth who we are where we come from the complexity is as beautiful as it is and everything that it leads to and so shy and talk to me a little bit about not wanting to change the world's perception of native Americans or even the way we're teaching who we are as native people in in our schools two little ones go ahead? I think a lot of it always kind of goes back to this this concept of like pan indigenous where we're like the one big group of people bowl with one language and we wear the same thing and it's like oh no no no baby like there is there is many of us there is over. I believe five hundred and Seventy recognized Nice tribes now federally recognized if I'm not mistaken and every single one of these communities have their own language have their homer Gila have their own traditions their own ceremonies their own taboos everything and so you know when people meet me. They're like Oh. You're seminal like do POW. How and I'm like no actually we never traditionally danced in powwows ever or Do you live in teepees and my people from the swamps you you know I don't know where we were going to put those but we didn't have those or say something in Indian for me and I'm like my people speak Miccosukee Sukey these big creek and so a lot of is kind of breaking down those barriers breaking down the misconceptions but you know were constantly being boxed into the the stereotypes of especially in the media he of horseless on our excuse me horses back a shirtless on horseback doc or in the battered native woman or like the really really poor reservation and that's not who we are. That's and you know you can't you can't fit us into this one narrative because it's just not possible we are all so complex and so different and all of our cultures and in all of our ways you know it's like for instance I visited North Dakota and I was visiting the three affiliated Tribes Mandela had it's a data in a river and you know the women are allowed to participate in sweats there and traditionally we don't do sweats women. Don't do sweats back home you know and so you see all these differences but there's also many similarities and so when I do get to meet on natives and like you said sometimes I'm the one in the only one they ever meet I always just try to go back to the core values news and I feel like as indigenous people as native people we share core values which is hospitality. You know we are very community. Oriented people we are we are like. We're not self serving people we take care of our land and it's never something that we is bought or sold or belongs to anybody and we understand understand these concept. We understand the circle of life and how everything's connected and that's what I always try to teach people when I do meet them. It's that you know were so different and all these different ways but this is what we shares people. This is like the understanding the core values the morale that we have and that that is the foundation of everything that we do you know and there's love and all that we do and I mean I take so much pride in being able to visit all these different communities and I get to share you know things about my people and I learned so much about their people and the next thing you know we're sitting there and they're like Oh. You guys do that too and I'm like yeah and it's it's. It's incredible what it does to be able to teach people that as well but you know representation we deserve good positive or presentation tation. You know we it's it's really sad to sit here and think about you know. We don't want our children watching the Pocahontas Disney movie. You know 'cause they caught. They literally call US savages in that movie they literally say the words barely even human in one of the songs and it's is that what we want our kids thinking about themselves like we're people we are living thriving people here and I've also come across the misconception of that. We're just completely non existent anymore that were just completely -pletely gone and or like Oh there's so few of you and it's like where it's not that we're an extinct people where people recovering from genocide like we are building backup our communities were building backup or populations and I feel that when these negative stereotypes are perpetuated and all these ways it it that's that affects our self esteem as native people as well because you're sitting there and you're thinking well they just call me Pocahontas and I want to that. Oh I still go through it like Oh Polka Polka Hana's Polka Heidi and I'm like dude. That's ugly. You shouldn't say that and you know it it it affects our women because it's like this hyper sexualization of native American women you know that plays into Emma my w and Emma My WG AG because we're like fetish is in the men to and it's it's not good for our people. It's not good at all and you know it's time that we start. It's funny. We were making a joke yesterday like you know you have to shake the table and I was like no man we have to flip it like we have to flip that thing and let them know that we're we're just tired of it you know and it's very seldom that you come across a story about native American people where you know like the center of the stories about them empowering themselves. It's always like a saving story sure well. You know what I think. We're changing that right now. Cheyenne our pleasure to be visiting with view. We're going to pause here for a moment but when we think of all of the potential that we have as needed people and then you hear a young individual coming from one of our communities saying this kind of stuff what's going through your mind right now dial in one eight hundred nine nine six two eight four eight support by AARP AARP creates and connects you to unique tools and programmes helps you save money and tackles the issues issues that matter most to you your family and your community what Aarp does might surprise you like sponsoring the Alaska Federation of Natives in Fairbanks Alaska October seventeenth through the nineteenth information at A. A. R. P. Dot Org me gain now uncertain black you when Benji boost of I miss the brick walls and thanks for tuning in today. I'm Tara Gatewood. The rainy misinformation World Cheyenne Kevin Burger is with us today here in studio forty nine. We're hearing a little bit about her life her position and some of the things that she is hoping to do with her title as well as pay tribute to those who have come before her if you'd like to share some words with Cheyenne dial in right now now is the time don't wait one more minute Dow one eight hundred nine six two eight four eight. We look forward to weaving when you into the conversation Cheyenne. Thank you for being here with us and we're going to say hello to David now who's tuned in in Oklahoma online. David thank you for giving us a bring your connected to Cheyenne Hello Cheyenne. I'm giving a question on behalf of the Spectral Youth Council of the Shiner Apple Tribes and and also some of the tribe of Oklahoma since in a question for you on your Mental Health Perspective Platform that you've been giving one of the spectrum on the spectrum of anxiety in depression. How do we differentiate between what needs to be treated and what might be broader societal triggers like climate change polarized politics politics racial economic and environmental inequality that might be a call to action for our use and for families David things for giving us a ring again? Phone lines are open one eight hundred nine six two eight four eight. Go ahead Cheyenne you know in my own journey I kind of had to go in like research. Urge different things and that was how I started to learn about intergenerational trauma and how that gets passed on and we have blood memory of the things that have been done to us and all the things things that are happening around us like climate change and politics and all these different things play into our mental health as native indigenous people and I I had to kind of learn that on my own because it's I think it's something that needs to happen as well that we have these like counselors and therapists that understand understand the cultural foundation behind these things you know because it's not as simple as like like you just have depression his it's like okay but what you know like is there triggers behind these things is there like is it the environment whatever it is and it's like we are literally living in a time right now where we're watching our ancestral lands were watching the earth literally being poisoned in killed and things are being taken from her and we feel that we feel feel that pain you know and I just it's so easy for us to understand you know as native people as an easy conversation to have that we we have this responsibility to take care of what's taking care of us and I think it's it's so difficult to explain it sometimes to non non-natives but it's a journey that I've actually been on with my therapist as well where I sit and I tell her. I'm like you know like this is something that you also understand because we carry this burden inside of us and so all of these things are connected. You know the same way that hyper sexualization can affect our self esteem in our self image edge the same way that you know watching our ancestral lands being dug up and extracted and all these different things like that that brings on sadness Nisa and we feel that pain and everything and so thank you David for bringing that up because it's such a great perspective that people need to hear that all these things are are intertwined. They're all connected in a way so. I think that you know it's important to have an another is a word for this. It's like traits like I guess culturally relevant training for like even like teachers. You know that they understand that there's like certain verbiage that that you can't use you know what I mean and things like that. It's like it's like cultural sensitivity. I guess maybe sure in there's a lot of work. That's being done in that because when when you do create that environment especially in a school situation where your understanding in supporting the needs of your need of students I think a lot changes and you know people have done studies on this and they have the numbers and and the results to prove to prove some of that and so I think it's interesting and right now. We're in the middle of the school year. Ear Inn went October rolls around for many people. It's a hard time because we have Columbus Day Halloween thanksgiving all of those things things start rolling through but we also have indigenous peoples day to where a lot of people are pushing back or using that moment to educate and so there's there's a lot there again. Thank you for your call. You know what let's take another one. We're going to say hi to Donna in Wassily Alaska tuned on key. NBA Donna thanks for giving us a ring. You're you're on your morning congratulations to Miss World. I Miss Native American missiles. I had a journey myself where I didn't even know I was depressed and I needed hailing but I had received healing through a book called healing the memories and and it was my childhood that needed healing and it is a journey and it's all throughout the life and we have up to try to look at the beauty and others in the beauty in the world in positive and grabbed that piece when we can and take at least half an hour each day where we have a piece where we can relax and do something that makes us feel good about ourselves in the world. Thank thank you all right Donna. Yes that meantime is really important. let's say hi now to Steve in Albuquerque Mexico tuned in on K. UNM Steve thanks for giving giving us a ringo hit. You're on the Air Hi hi terra good morning. thank you for taking my call Shan I really appreciate your talking talking about the healing process a little bit ago and I've been through some of that one thing that really helped me get over the feeling of not being good enough when I measured myself against other people it's just within within my heart saying you're my best friend. You Know Steve you're at my best friend and then bringing other folks in my parents and other people who are important and and creating a little circle just in inside myself and I think the other thing that you mentioned it's it's really important is is is going for what you were. What you were born for? the purpose you were you were mentally for and once you kind of discover that and and do it no matter what other people one wants you to do I think you're you're really on the road to recovery Steve. Thank you for sharing your thoughts Cheyenne. Anything you want to tell Steve. I love what she said about you. You know like I am my best friend. You know because I had learned that you know after you lose. All these people around you have to kind of sit. There and you have to be okay with being by yourself yourself. I love that you mentioned that. I've never even thought about it that way. You know but it's like I always make this joke like I'm in love with myself. I fully in love with myself and it's good to feel that way. It's not selfish. It's not like being full yourself like you have to love yourself. You have to be okay with being by yourself as well you know and you know the importance of self care and not just getting your nails done getting a facial but like really sitting there and being with your thoughts and like sorting them through through and compartmentalizing everything you know putting everything that folder putting it away and putting it in the filing cabinet. That's very important to do and you no the journey to healing is not always going to be easy one but it's always it's not necessarily always going to be like your feet forward. You know like there was points points in my healing and even now that I you know I'll go four four steps forward to be knocked back another eight. You know but that's okay you know like it's is important to remember that resiliency that we've always had inside of us. You know it's important to rely on your ancestral strength. That's carried through you. You know like I mentioned before like he preyed into existence. So you need to pray for yourself. You need to sit there and you need to go through everything and I really learned through Yoga. like to feel different things in my body and the like like when you breathe and you'll get it's just straight nose breathing into the nose knows out the nose and you had to learn to kind of be in that moment at that during the meditation that you have and you're breathing oxygen into these different places of your body and I had never felt that moment before I was like Oh my God. I'm really here like really here. I'm living in a AH carry. My you know my seminal blood in me. Carry my blood in me and like I'm just really proud of who I am and I love this and one of my affirmations senses. I always express my gratitude for my body. I'm always like thank you for these feet. Thank you for these hands. Thank you for this mine and thank you for this voice. I Oh oh those are the things I say to myself. Every single day and learning to love yourself is not easy sometimes at all there was like these I sat there and I look at myself in the mirror was like I I don't like you right. Now you know but the next day I'm sitting there and I'm like you're not perfect but you're still beautiful and all of you are beautiful. All of you have these incredible things about you that sometimes only you know about yourself and that's okay okay and that's okay but it's important to be your own best friend. I love that very nice in you. Know part of your strength does come from your community. in this short time that we've been together here on air. I'm carrying. UC things like home or back home home and when a person talks about their tribal community that way it seems like it's almost another person in your life a character or something that is there for you at that basis and Social Ian Anything you want to share about about your own tribal nation. You're the first person from the seminole tribe of Florida to hold this tidal title and it's an invitation to the world to learn a little bit more about who the seminal people are tell us educate us. Take us to seminal okay. Let's do do this so I'm from the Hollywood reservation. My family is from there. we have the Hollywood reservation big Cypress Brighton in Tampa. We have the Markley trail communities tribe consists of about forty five hundred members so we're not extremely big but we're also not very small I either but we're very proud people we are the unconquered seminal type before and never signed a treaty with the US government and we are very very proud of that and and we take a lot of pride in the fact that we have built such a successful foundation of enterprises you know we we we bought the hard rock brand. I believe in two thousand and eight and you know it's just been an incredible journey 'cause. I wasn't very young when that happened but I also wasn't too. I guess like old enough to really realize what was going on but now that I'm older I see and I'm like wow that's actually really crazy. Healey we started with we were on commodities auditees cigarette shops and Bingo. That's what we came from. You know and so I I I take a lot of pride in my people because we you it's almost like we beat them at their own. Game is how I look at. It and you know we're proud of who we are. Part of. Our languages are clothing. Our Arts Arts our traditions or ceremonies and you know shout out to everybody back home because if it wasn't for you guys you know I really I don't know who I would be probably lost you know and I have incredible friends and family back home that have just supported me through all of of this you know from the beginning of Miss Florida seminal two now and I invite everybody to come and visit my community. We have a POW in February. I believe it's February very seven through nine. If I'm not mistaken actually and it's nice this week is actually we're celebrating in day national in India and so I was kind of jealous L. is my sister was posting on at the dress competition and I was like man I should be air but the I love my people were really well known for alligator interesting where well known for our Patchwork Clothing and you know at the talent the talent presentation I shared my mitalent was sharing a traditional hairstyle. We used to wear in the thirties and forties and I love it because that's what people remember me from gathering. They're like you're the one that did that really cool hair thing. I'm like yeah that was me and it's awesome because it was something that I have been asked about before but had never really is not something that's shared too much much. there's there's only so many ways to do it and so it was nice to kind of share that new aspect of who seminal women are and it's you know it's awesome like I said I am by everybody. Come see my community. We have billy slump safari and and Oh yes in the museum and you know we are more than willing to share who we are as seminal people and yeah. We're just we're we're proud people we really really are and and were strong people in so Cheyenne you are halfway through your year holding this title in I can only imagine all the different places that that you have on your agenda before the next gathering of nations in April and I'm sure that time is GonNa come real fast Schon just taking a look at the pathway hathaway Ford anything you wanNA share about things coming up or what you hope you know this journey will bring to your life got about a minute. I just WanNa want to let everybody know like your your loved. You are loved you are extremely loved and your strong. We are strong people and don't ever ever give up and I always tell people I'm like you can message me and I totally mean that like. DM ME on instagram. If you need a talk I really am you know this. I'm an open book like I said and I have zero shame in my journey and so you know if it means empowering other people like I'm all for it and you know I'd like to invite anybody that's interested in running in the pageant as well to message me and to reach out and I'm here for advice to answer questions whatever it may be two girls looking to compete in their own tribal communities do it do it girl. You got the goods. You're thinking about it. So you know you can do it but just remember that we're strong people you know we carry we carry a lot of medicine and prayers and resiliency inside of us into just remember that and again I want to invite everybody to the gathering nations powwow in April that Don oh and they are gathering Powell limited realty single in real and just remember to fight for that representation representation. Don't don't be scared to flip that table there you go well too bad. This is in video because then we'd have you flip this desk right now right on in real quick where people find you on social media My name is super super long so if you do at am I w Cheyenne Kippenberger C. The H. E. Y. E. E. K. I. P. P. E. N. B. E. R. G. E. R. That's me I also have a facebook page. you could search twenty nineteen twenty twenty missing Kippenberger and you could also go to gathering of nations dot Com for any and all information you know reach out to us for bookings and things like that. I'd love to come and visit your communities. I really would and like I said open invitation to come and visit my community as well all right well. That's going to do it for our visit with Indian World Cheyenne Kippenberger. If you missed anything you can find it in our archives on our website native America calling dot Com Cheyenne. Thank you for being here with us US and again congratulations to your title and what lies before you tomorrow or inviting you back. If you had fun today wait wait till you tune in tomorrow. There's more we will be talking about infant nutrition. What were you taught about babies first foods? You can tell all your story tomorrow by calling in or start the conversation right now on facebook or tweet us at one eight hundred nine nine native. I'm your host Tara Gatewood support for journalism awesome that raises the awareness of child wellbeing to citizens and to policymakers provided by the Annie E. Casey Foundation building a brighter future for children families and Communities Unity's information at e c Dot Org the National Indian Education Association is Celebrating Fifty Years of building education nations October break through the Twelfth at the Minneapolis Convention Center Online Registration Ends September thirteenth at an I. E. Dot Org proud to support this show support support by Seneca Niagara Resort and Casino in Niagara Falls New York presenting the nineteenth annual native American music awards hosted by West duty and Mickie James on Saturday November second at seven pm with live performances including special guests John Gourley and Zachary carruthers from Portugal the man and many more tickets to the gala honoring the achievements of today's native American artists are available now at Seneca Niagara Casino Dot Com and ticketmaster locations native America calling produced in the Birds National Native Oi Studios in Albuquerque New Mexico by Quantico Broadcast Corporation. A native nonprofit media organization funding is provided by the corporation for public broadcasting with support from the

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[Unedited]  Robin Wall Kimmerer with Krista Tippett

On Being with Krista Tippett

1:26:31 hr | 2 months ago

[Unedited] Robin Wall Kimmerer with Krista Tippett

"Support for on being with Krista, Tippett comes from the Fetzer Institute helping build the spiritual foundation for a loving world. FETZER envisions a world that embraces love as a guiding principle and animating force for our lives. A powerful love that helps us live in sacred relationship with ourselves others, and the natural world learn more by visiting FETZER DOT Org. I'm KRISTA Tippett up next my unedited conversation with Botanist Robin Wall Kammerer there is a shorter produced version of this wherever you found this podcast. This is Robin. Robin is Krista Tippett Hi Krista so nice to meet you even over the airwaves. Are we I'm just looking behind the glass Cristiano Me To let me ask you Well thank you so much for doing this. Let me just ask you to get some levels. Tell me something mundane like what you had for breakfast. I had raspberries frozen from Mike. Garden this morning and Granola in yogurt. There you go. Is that what you need sounds good. Yeah. Yeah. That's good. Christie need more. They like it here too. Okay. Let's do lunch to whichever. Spinach Salad. Okay eating along the throughway in a parking lot. From Your Garden No, I'm afraid the frost has taken those Greens. It sounds like, Christie. You have an nearline. Okay. Because it sounds like a door is open or something or. No I hear some some feedback on your end like repeating. Okay Great Oh. Yeah. About now. Lord. Sure I'm really excited to be on this program. I've been listening for a long time so too when I first heard your voice on the earphones I thought I'm listening to the radio. It's Christa. Oh. Have, do you listen to the radio or do you podcast podcast? Yeah. I you know I heard about you I. mean actually we've been. I. Actually think we may have reached out a couple of years ago and couldn't make it work but then I was at. Mesa refuge last. Year. Earlier this year. And they in point Reyes and they were saying Oh she's so wonderful I have to get harness yeah, I. Know We try so I think that kind prompted me to try again. Mesa refuge, lettuce? Blended? Place. Did did you go there on a writer's retreat? I did I spent a month. Oh, Gosh that sounds amazing. Was I had two weeks which was actually revolutionary but if I could have stayed longer I don't think would have died and gone to have. Looking at it that day every morning Yeah No, it's amazing and those little those little writers cabins. When. They call them. This sheds I think the writer said. Oh. Yeah. Well, so I'm I'm very excited to To Talk to you and and and so as you know, if you listen to the show, you know I I, I walk with people at this intersection of what they know and who they are. and I'm. An obviously, a big piece of your story is kind of the weaving of you know is that intersection between, but you the scientist and and you the human being and the? The traditions and language. have. From your indigenous culture and the. Traditions in language in which you work in as as a botanist so I'm just I'm I'm excited to just to London here. Do you have any questions for me before we start? Just that, I want to confirm that. Uh So this is our conversation from which an edited version will be created for the podcast. Now now, what we we do have a tradition of also putting the unedited version out there. And and then but yes, what's on the radio and what we send up as a podcast is the Is it will be a fifty two minute Edited version that's produced. Are you okay with that? Oh. Yes. Of course, right? Okay. All right. Yeah. I I. It's. It's unusual that we put the unedited up and honestly I had a lot of I had some misgivings about early on and it's it's actually been a really wonderful thing for people who? Just, want to go really deep and like the joy of. Of A, true meandering conversation, which is what we have now but then we will we will craft. It will be surrounded by all kinds of artistry when it going to be when it's on public radio. Sounds like fun yeah. Okay. So I just want to start by Well. Let me start with with the place I always start. Let me. Backup limit. So I'm just so intrigued when I look at the way you introduce yourself. It will often include. You are a citizen, your from the citizen. Pot Automation. From the bear clan adopted into the. Eagles. And I'd love for you to just that up a little bit and describe you know kind of say a little bit about what you're describing. Take us a little bit into that world. You're describing that you came from and and and ask also that the question I always ask. About, you know what was the spiritual and religious background of that That world you grew up in your childhood. I'd like to start with the second part of that question. I was lucky enough to grow up in the fields in the woods of upstate. New. York House lucky in that regard but. Also. In that I grew up away from the. People away from all of our people by virtue of history history of removal and and the taking of children to the Indian boarding schools. And so in a sense I grew up in a family that had a lot of living indigenous values but not the explicit indigenous culture. And those two things really come together in the fact that. The questions that I had about who I was in the world what the world was like. Those are questions that I really wished I'd had a cultural elder to ask, but it didn't but I had the woods to ask and there's a way in which just growing up in the in the woods in the fields They really became my doorway into culture in the absence of human elders I had plant elders instead. So. So you you were part you or still in that in a generation of people. Your grandfather was in in an boarding school right in in Pennsylvania this government program that was about. Civilizing. Indian youth and and part of that was actually. muting really really extinguishing in a way that the spiritual traditions and so many of the cultural traditions and languages so. You really grew up in the in. In the aftermath I mean, I guess in the in the vacuum that was created by them. That's It it certainly was this aftermath of of assimilation and yet there is that something that was not a simulated and that is what my immediate family and my extended family could pass down to me, which was really a sense of identity and this kind of deep knowing that we belonged to a group of people who in a sense new US knew about us but they were not supposed to us. They were they were extended family that existed somewhere in the world, and that was always a bit of a mystery to me. And when I would ask my dad questions about or culture. and. He couldn't answer except to say that was left behind at Carlisle Indian school. I remember thinking even as a kid will darned if there could be schools that would take all of that away from you. There ought to be schools that could give pack. and. It's sounds like you didn't grow up speaking the language of the pot automation, which is an additional base that right That's right. How would you? Language languages called Nabi Moen in the puddle. Oughta me language is very close to that. Okay. And it but you did you pick picked up as an adult is that right? Yes. Only in the last. Oh Gosh I'd say ten ten to twelve years that I've really been trying to teach myself and I shouldn't say my self. I am I am learning alone but I'm learning from Greek teachers. Right. Always intrigued to see that dimension somewhere near writing that you take part in a pot me language lunchtime class that actually happens in Oklahoma and you're there via the Internet because I you know I grew up actually in Potter County in Oklahoma. and having told you that. I never. Knew or learned anything about what that word meant much less. You. Know the people in the culture. described. That is so interesting to live in a player name that and this is this is the the ways in which cultures become invisible and the language becomes invisible. Through history and The. Reclaiming of that. The making culture visible again to to speak the language in even the tiniest amount so that It's almost as if I feels like the you know the air is waiting to hear this language that had been lost for more for so long. So it delights me that I can be learning an ancient language by completely modern technologies. Sitting at my office eating lunch learning learning to automaker hammer. Yeah. So when you said a minute ago that you use your childhood and and actually the the kind of searching questions if your childhood were somehow. Somehow find found expression and and and the closest that you came to answers in the woods and it seems to me that that's such a wonderful way to. To fill out something else you've said before, which is that you were born botanist, which is, which is a way to save this right which was the language you got as you entered college Info at forestry school. at at State University of New York. Yes. My my experience having been really tutored by the plants. They were my companions wake my good. Friends, and that's really the way I thought of them, and so there's no question. But that study botany at college, it was my passions delivery of course but the botany that I encountered there was so different than the way that I understood plants it you know plants were reduced to object to they what was supposedly important about them was the mechanism by which they worked not with their gifts were not what their their capacities were. They were really thought of as objects whereas I thought of them as as subjects and that shift in in Worldview, you was a big hurdle for me entering the field of science. And it sounds to me like you. You you honored that that that that wave scientific inquiry you you took it in. You learned it. Obviously, you became an expert in it as well. I mean one way you've said it is that is that that science was asking different questions and you had other questions, other language and and other protocol that came from indigenous culture that were also in you to explore. Yes. That's absolutely true. And I think the thing that drove me in particular to be able to accept an embrace. This western scientific way of knowing is that to me plants were so fascinating I wanted to know everything I could about them and I was acutely aware that this was seeing plants through a different Lens than I had experienced are still hungry for that knowledge and and a way to really kind of slip inside of a plant and see how they how they did the amazing alchemy of photosynthesis that was fascinating to me. But at the same time I, always held that that sense of great respect and regard in gratitude for them as being. But what I was doing was to learn how those beings worked. I mean, there's one place in your writing where. Should I think my notes are a little bit out of have taken out of context, but you're talking about beauty. And you talking about you know question you'd have, which is why to flowers are beautiful together. And at that question, for example, would violate the division that is necessary for objectivity. But then you do this wonderful thing where actually give a scientific analysis of the statement that beauty is in the eye of the beholder. which is, which would be one of the critiques of a question like that that it's not really asking a question that is rational or scientific. Talking about you I do. You. Flush that out because that's just such an interesting juxtaposition of how you actually started to both experienced the dissonance between those kinds of questions and also start to weave them together I think, yes it goes back to the story of when I very proudly entered the forestry school as a as an eighteen year old and telling them that the reason that I wanted to study botany was because I wanted to know why astor's goldenrod looked. So beautiful together these are these amazing displays. Of this bright chrome yellow and deep purple of New England Aster and they they. They look stunning together and the two plants. So often intermingle rather than living apart from one another and I wanted to know why that was. I thought that surely in order in the harmony of the universe, there would be an explanation for why they looked so beautiful together and I was told that that was not science that if I was interested in beauty, I should go to art school. which really demoralizing as a As a freshman but I I came to understand that that question wasn't going to be answered by science that in science as a way of knowing you explicitly sets aside right. Our our emotions are aesthetic reactions to things we have to analyze them as if they were just pure material and not matter and spirit together and yes as it turns out, there's a very good biophysical explanation for why those plants grow together. It's a matter of that accent it. So it's a matter. Of Ecology those complementary colors of purple and gold together we being opposites on the on the color wheel there so vivid, they actually attract far more pollinators then that if those two grew apart from one another. So each of those plants benefits by combining its beauty with the beauty of the other, and that's a question that science can address certainly as well as artists and I just think that wise the world. So beautiful is a question that we all ought to be embracing. And Yeah. Now you did you did work for a time at Bausch and Lomb after college. I mean, you went into a more. Scientific Endeavor. I wonder was there was there kind of a turning point a day or a moment where? Where you felt compelled to bring these things together in a in A. In the way you could. These different ways of knowing and seeing and studying the world. Yes there was it. It didn't happen in my one short blessedly short. You're of doing corporate science but certainly. That experience of working for as a scientist for industry. Absolutely gave me the sense that that is not for me what science was four and I I quickly got away from that to go to graduate school in studying. Ecology. I think the place that it became most important Mehta start to bring these ways back of knowing back together again. Is When By A I won't call it s a coincidence by but with synchronicity. As a young PhD botanist I invited to a gathering of traditional plant knowledge holders. And I was just there to listen. and. It was such an amazing experience, four days of listening to people whose knowledge of the plant world with so much deeper than my own these were or these elders these indigenous. Teachers, they are indigenous elders many of whom, of course had no formal botany training at all their education was on the land and with the plants and through the oral tradition. But I just sat there and soaked in this wonderful conversation which interwoven mythic knowledge and scientific knowledge into this beautiful cultural natural history and for me, it was absolutely a watershed moment because it made me remember those things at. Starting to walk the science path had Made me forget or attempted to make me forget? And I just saw that their knowledge was so much more whole and rich and and and Nurturing that I wanted to do everything that I could to bring those ways of knowing back into harmony. You said one at one point you that you had gotten to the point where. You're talking about the names of plants, right? I. Was Teaching the names and ignoring the songs. So what what do you mean by that? To me the one of the the difficulties of moving in the scientific world is that when we named something often with the scientific name, right? On this, this name becomes almost an end to inquiry. We sort of say, well, we know it. Now we're able to systematize it and put a Latin binomial on it. So it's ours we know what we need to know. But that is only looking, of course at the morphology of the organism at the way that it looks at it ignores all of its relationships it. It's such a mechanical kind of wooden representation of what a plant. Really. Is and even in that language what a plant really is as opposed to who plant really is and and so this this notion of of the song of the plants is representing them and recognizing that that the plants are are persons, they're non human persons but they're very special persons with their own way of knowing their own stories, their own songs, and we reduce some tremendous if we just think about them as as physical elements of the ecosystem. So so this notion of. Of the Earth Annecy of the annecy of the natural world and In, it including plants is very. Pivotal to your. To your thinking and to the way you explore. The natural world even scientifically and and draw conclusions also about our relationship to the natural world. So. To delve into that some more. You said there's a grammar of animus. Talk, about that a little bit. Yes. This comes back to what I think of as the innocent or childlike way of knowing you know that's a terrible thing to call it. We say it's an innocent way of knowing, and in fact, it's very worldly and wise way of knowing to recognize the person hood of other beings as opposed to i. mean you know you you wrote about your child tip and I also think you know we think about all the way we are as children in nature that at some point we shed got that just delight and deep curiosity and an ability to pay attention you said as a child, I couldn't help but wonder why the world was. So full of different being somewhat their lives were like. So that kind of way of moving in nature was in you was in you as well as in so many of us, that's right. That's right and that kind of deep attention that we pay as as children is something that I that I. Cherish that I. Think we all can cherish and reclaim that because attention is that doorway to gratitude the doorway to wonder the doorway to reciprocity and it it worries me greatly that today's children can recognize hundred corporate logos and fewer than ten plants. That means they're not paying attention. But back to this notion of animals, see what I what I understood from the plants had at a very early age. Is There Anisi that they are persons not only respected persons but really they were my teachers. And this notion of the person who had not only of plants, but the person hood of all beings is. A key part of the world view that I hope that we as humans can reclaim. This idea of the animosity of the world is coded in the English language isn't it? in that. In the English language if we want to speak of that sugar maple or that Salamander, the only grammar that we have to do so is to call those beings and it. and. If I called my grandmother or the person sitting across the room for me and it, that would be so rude, right you know that would be I just robbed you of your person hood of your humanity I disrespected you. And we wouldn't tolerate that for for members of our own species, but we not only tolerate it but it's the only way we have in the English language to speak of other beings is as it with the exception of course, we sometimes we'll call our pets he or she wore interestingly our cars he or she. You big seventeen year old son called his car she yeah. That's right. Because because he is he has such a relationship with that car that he can't think of it just as as an object right and and so. In when I began learning the Pot Awada me language I. was fine with downs. But when I got to verbs was very difficult because the the are verbs are structured around whether what you're speaking of his animate or inanimate. and. Unlike say romance languages where there are different cases by gender, right? Right Masculine Feminine or Neuter even right right in in pod emmy the cases where we have our animate and inanimate and it is impossible in our language to speak of other living beings as it's. So living beings would all be animates all living beings anything that was alive. In the Pot Awadhi language would not be it's would. Living beings are animate in jess. Thanks absolutely. All living be inanimate would be what materials or You raise a very good question because. That that, again, western science would give the criteria for what does it mean to be alive is a little different than you might find in traditional culture where we think of water as alive has rocks as alive, alive and different ways but but certainly, not in animate. Generally, the inanimate grammar is reserved for those things which humans have created. Okay okay. Like the table somebody like that. Yes exactly. Yes. And I I read in you that when you. And you know I have to say an I'm sure you know this cause. I'm sure you get this reaction a lot especially in scientific circles it is. It's UNCON- it's unfamiliar and slightly uncomfortable in Westerners to hear someone refer to. Plant says persons it's it's unfamiliar and I know when you've used this kind of language which again, it also does doesn't it? It kind of points at the? The Paucity of our vocabulary for talking about, you know what is animate? Were so literal about these things But then you know what the charge you get back in scientists that you that you're indulging an anthropomorphic. thinking you know and that that makes you. Unscientific. Metric is does that happen align is that? Is that a kind of a? Common Reaction. Sure. Sure scientists or are very eager to say that that we ought to personify elements in nature for fear of anthropomorphized thing. And when what I mean when I talk about the person hood of all beings plants included is not that I m attributing human characteristics to them. Not at all I'm attributing plant characteristics to plants I. Am I just as it would be disrespectful to try and input plants in the same category through the Lens of anther per morphism I think it's also deeply disrespectful to say that they have no consciousness no awareness. nope being nece at all we don't understand it yet, but that's really different than anthropomorphized I think. Yeah and I you also make such A. Common Sense point that the that the arrogance on the side of that chart is that the only way to be animate is to be human exactly I mean that's kind of the. That's implicit in in the way, we draw this distinction between ourselves and other living beings. That's right. That's right in both traditional understandings of and by. I, should I sometimes get into trouble with my language saying traditional when when, when I, say traditional I misread traditional indigenous ways Yeah and I guess I should take conventional when I mean scientific ways but now I got off on a tangent what was I thinking? We're we I said the arrogance of that the that the only. That humans are the only animate beings. Yes. It's a bit because he's talking about anthropomorphized thought right and proper morphism. Charge in this to Nihil of person, hood to all other beings is is Increasingly being refuted by science itself there that's an interesting I can't think of a single scientific study in the last few decades that has demonstrated that plants or animals are dumber than we think. It's always the opposite right. What we're revealing is the fact that they have extraordinary capacities which are so unlike our own, but we dismissed them because well, if they don't do it like animals do it, then they must not be doing anything when in fact they're they're sensing their environment responding to their environment. In incredibly sophisticated ways, you know the science which is showing that plants have capacity to learn to have memory It's really we're at the edge of a of a wonderful revolution and really understanding the sentence of other beings. Yeah. Here's something beautiful that you wrote in In Your Book Gathering, Moss just as an example The rocks are beyond slow beyond strong and yet yielding to a soft green breath as powerful as a glacier. The mosses wearing away their surfaces grain by grain bringing them slowly back to sand. There is an ancient conversation going on between mosses and rocks poetry to be sure about light and shadow and the drift of continents. So beautiful. And so in. So amazing to think about just read those sentences and think about. That conversation as you say. Yes and it's a conversation that takes place at a pace that we humans. Especially, we contemporary humans who are rushing about. We can't even grasp the pace at which that conversation takes place. and. So thinking about plants as as persons indeed thinking about Rox Persons Force service to shed our idea of that. The only pace that we live on is the human pace and it's I think very very exciting to to think about these ways of being which which happen on completely different scales and sock exciting to think about what we might learn from them. You You make such an interesting observation that me the way you walk through the world and and and and immerse yourself in Moss and plant life. You know you said, you become aware that we have some deficits compared to our companions, species, I I sense that photosynthesis that you know we can't even photos emphasize that this is a quality you covet. In our botanical brothers and sisters. Just tell me tell it. Take US take me inside. Why you're span I, have photosynthesis envy. The ability to take these nonliving elements of the World Air and light and water and turn them into food that can then be shared with the whole rest of the world in know to turn them into medicine that is medicine for people and for trees and for soil you know the the creative energy of photosynthesis and photosynthesis, and then all of the things that that plants can make is just sweeps me away with with. that they should do this. And then given this incredible gifts that they have dismissed them as objects lower than is lesser than ourselves, and we cannot even approach the kind of creativity at they have. One thing you say that I'd like I'd like to understand better science polishes the gift of seeing. Indigenous traditions work with gifts of listening and language. So. So I'd love at an example of, let's see something. And could be moss or know you tell a wonderful for about the story about the life force of mushrooms? You know something where you the you know what are what are the gifts of seeing that science offers, and then the gifts of listening language and how all of that. Gives. You this rounded? Understanding of something. What I mean when I say that science polishes the gift of seeing. Brings us to an intense kind of attention that that science allows us to bring to the natural world. And that kind of attention also includes ways of seeing quite literally through other lenses. That we might have the hand Lens, the magnifying glass in our hands that allows us to look at that. Moss with an acuity that the human eye doesn't have. So we see more the the microscope that lets us see the gorgeous architecture by which it's put together the scientific instrumentation in the laboratory that would allow us to to look at the miraculous way that water interacts with cellulose. Let's say that's what I mean by science polishes our ability to see because it gives us it extends our is into other realms, but we're in many cases looking at the surface and by the surface I, mean the material being allowed. Right, but in indigenous ways of knowing, we say that we know a thing when we know it not only with our physical senses with our intellect. But also when we engage our intuitive ways of knowing of of of emotional knowledge and spiritual knowledge, and that's really what I mean by listening by saying that traditional knowledge engages us in listening. It brings us back to that notion that the plant or the animal that. Is engaged with her attention has something to say. And So we again think of it not just on the surface it's it's material being, but it's person hood and in what is the story that that that being might share with us if we knew how to listen as well as we know how to see. And so so So so maybe let's talk more about mosses because you're you. You did this beautiful book about it and you are Abreo logist is that right? A spend. So that's a specialty with even within What do you? with. Biology I've seen you describe within Bonnie. So I mean I learned and also I learned that you're. That your work with Moss inspired Elizabeth Gilbert's novel the signature of all things which is about a botanist I learned so many things from that book I mean it's it's also that I had never thought very deeply about Moss but moss inhabits nearly every ecosystem on earth twenty, two, thousand species that. MOSSES have the ability to clone themselves from broken off. Leaves are torn fragments at they're integral to the functioning of forest I mean. I'd love for you to just jump off what you just said about. The gifts of listening and language that you have from indigenous tradition. Just described some other things you've heard. And understood from Moss With those ears and eyes. Thank you for asking that question because it really gets to this idea how science asks us to learn about his ABS. Traditional knowledge asks us to learn from them. And when I think about losses in particular as the most important of of land plants, they have been here for a very long time. They figured out a lot about how to live well on the earth and there's there out for me I. think they're really good storytellers in the way that they live. An example of what I mean by this is in their simplicity in the power of being small. MOSSES becomes so successful all over the world because they live in these tiny little. Layers on rocks on logs on trees. They don't strive to be big into be powerful they work with the natural. Forces that lie over every little surface of of the world and and so they're to me, they are exemplars of of. Not, only surviving but flourishing by working with natural processes. Moss superb teachers about living within your means. Is Say they take possession of spaces that are too small other plants are excluded from those spaces but they. They thrive there. That's right. Moss's have in the ecological sense, very low competitive ability because they're small because they don't grab resources very efficiently. and so this means that they have to live in the interstices they have to live in places where the dominant competitive plants can't live. But the way that they do this is really brings into question. The whole premise that competition is what really structures, biological evolution and biological success because mosses are not good competitors at all and yet they're the oldest plants on the planet they have persisted here for three hundred and fifty million years. They ought to be doing something right here, and one of those somethings I think has to do with their. Ability to cooperate with one another to share the limited resources that they have to to really give more than they take. Moss's build soil, they purify water they are like the coral reefs of the forest they make homes for this myriad of all these very cool little invertebrates who live in there. They're just engines of biodiversity. They do all of these things and yet you know they're only a centimeter tall. Mother point that is Implied in how you talk about US acknowledging the Animus of plans is. Cut In when whenever we use the language of it, whatever we're talking about Well, let's say this we we never knew said, as you said, when we love animals when we love non human species, we then we turn them into hammer her the we we give, we use the language of. We give them names right but. The point is we don't. We don't call anything we love and what you want to protect and would work to protect it. that language distances us. It certainly does and the language of it which distances disrespects and objectify is I can't help but think is at the root of a worldview that allows us to exploit nature. It's so. An and by exploit I mean in a in a in a way that really seriously degrades the land and the waters because in fact we we have to consume. We have to take where animals right but that to me is different than really rampant exploitation. But. This is why I've been thinking a lot about are there ways to bring this notion of annecy into the English language because so many of us that I've talked to about this feel really deeply uncomfortable calling the living world it and yet we don't have an alternative other than he or she. So I've been really trying to think about this and and to think about whether we might have new pronouns new grammar that allows us to make that choice that if we have a being with whom we have this deeply respectful reciprocal relationship that we don't have to call them it. and. I've been thinking about the inspiration that the initial be language offers in in this way and and contemplating new pronounce. It do have you. You you you. You've been playing with one or two how many I have. Yeah. So The one that that I've really been playing with is to try to find a word that conveys the. Person Hotter the being -ness of of an organism and I've been about the word odd key in our language which refers to land, and there's a beautiful word by modesty key which one of my elders kindly shared with me it means. A living being of the earth but. Could we? Be inspired by that little sound at the end of that word the key. And use key as a pronoun of respectful Pronoun sponsored by this language As an alternative to he she it so that when I'm tapping my maples in the springtime I can say we're going to go hang the on the buckle. The sorry we're going to go hang the bucket on Ki Ki is giving US Maple Syrup the springtime, and so this then of course, acknowledges being -ness of of that tree and we don't reduce it it. To into an audit could feel so wrong to say that and you made the point earlier about how children, how this natural affinity for the person hit about other beings don't our kids all say he or she for for plants and for trees, and then we teach them not to. Bugsy, how exactly they understand this person hood this this being this, and then we teach them that that's not the way. The world is no. No, that's really an object that's not a living being at all but having key as a pronoun gives you an option to speak respectfully of the world that you love. And I have some reservations about. Using a a word inspired from the punished Nabi language because I don't in any way want to engage in cultural appropriation. but this word is sound key is, of course, also the word for WHO right in in Spanish and in French it turns out that of course it's it's it's an alternate pronunciation for cheap for life force. For Life, energy I'm finding lots of examples that people are bringing to me where this word. Also means a living being of the earth that's really interesting. The and. Go on the the plural Pronoun that I think is is perhaps even more powerful. Is, not, one that we need to be inspired by another language because we already have it in English and that is the word. Kin. Kids the plural yes. Ken is the plural of key so that when the geese fly overhead, we can say kin are flying south for the winter come back soon. So that, every time we speak of the living world, we can embody are related this to to them. And that I think points at This notion of reciprocity, which is also central to your thinking I mean. Sustainability. Is the language we use about is some we use about. The world we're living in to or need to live into an I sense from your. Writing and especially from your indigenous tradition that sustainability really is not big enough and that it might even be a cop out I renew didn't use that language but You're actually talking about. A much more generous and expansive vision. Of relatedness between humans and the natural worlds and what we want to create. I am. I agree with you, the language of sustainability is pretty limited. And it also has I think at its heart. Sustainability is often couched in terms I think of a formula. By which we can keep taking from the earth. Into perpetuity we say that in order if something is going to be sustainable, its ability to provide for us will not be compromised into the future. and. That's all a good thing. You know the the the fact that we recognize that we can't continue to degrade are sisters and have any prayer of a flourishing for ourselves and for our non human neighbors. That's all to the good. But at its heart sustainability the way we think about it. Is embedded in this world view that we as human beings have some ownership over these what we call resources and that we want the world to be with a continued to keep that that human beings can keep taking keep consuming. The notion of reciprocity is really different from that. It's it's it's an expansion from because what it says is is that our role as human people is not just to take from the earth and the role of the earth is not just to provide for our siegel species. So reciprocity actually kind of broadens this notion to say that not only does the earth sustain us but that we have the capacity and the responsibility to sustain her in return. So it it broadens the notion of what it is be. A human person, not just a consumer hate it when we are labeled by our government sent by our economies justice consumers, and we've almost come to believe that that's all we are as a species is consumers and we forget that we have this capacity to be givers as well that we can give back to ecosystems and there's there's such joy and being able to do that to have it be a mutual flourishing instead of the more narrow definition of of sustainability so that we can just keep on taking. I I keep thinking as I'm reading you and now I'm listening to you I mean a conversation I've had across the years with. with Christians who are Who are who are going back to the Bible And seeing how? A certain certain translations and readings and interpretations especially if that language of genesis about. You know human beings. Being blessed to have dominion, what is it to have to dominion and subdue? The Earth. was read in a certain way in a certain period of time by human beings by industrialists. And and even missionaries. and so it was actually sacred language that emboldened some of what many people including Christians are now wanting to reverse. Do you do you ever have that? that. So so there's there is language in there is a mentality. About taking that. Seemed to have kind of a religious blessing on it. And now people are reading those same texts differently. To have those conversations with people because I mean you're the tradition you come from would never ever have read the texts that way. Right. So I mean I think culturally, we are kind we are. Incrementally moving more towards the world view that you. Come from. I think that that's true and. When I think about how it is that we are making this transformation in this, what I would see as kind of a longing among all of. Not shouldn't say all along among many faith traditions to reclaim a more gentle equitable, just relationship with the Earth as opposed to the The sanctioned dominion over over the Earth. I think that that. Longing, and the materiality of the need for redefining relationship with place is being taught to us by the land. Isn't it We seen that that the that in a way we've been captured by a worldview. Of Dominion that does not serve our species well in the long term, and moreover, it doesn't serve all the other beings in creation well at all and so we are attempting A. A mid course correction here and I. think that's really important to recognize that for most of human history. I think the evidence suggests that we have lived well and in balance with the living world and it's To my way of thinking almost an eye blink of of time in human history that we've had a truly adversarial relationship after your hundred years one hundred years since the industrial revolution. And and it was a profound error from which we're learning and so I think it's really important that that people recognize the transients. Perhaps of this exploitative worldview that the land is teaching us and we as humans with incredible capacities to learn and adapt. We're learning and changing to an understanding that that this isn't going to work for anybody, and so of course, we're moving in what Joanna macy calls that great turning right the the turning away from this industrial exploitative worldview to our worldview that embraces those systems that produce life. And and so it seems to me that this view that you have of the natural world and our place in it it's you know it's a way to think about biodiversity and US as part of that but but reciprocity again, take saddest step farther. right Yes. And you know you have. You. You say something that's really stunning that you know we take from the earth what we need. We ask what more can we take we more rarely ask what does the earth ask of us in return But you you you almost. You you say something you know this is uncomfortable to factor into our quesion of grappling with our relationship with the natural world. It's almost dare I. Think they pose that it's not just that we Love the earth but the earth loves us in. Return. So so flesh that out for me. I'm I'm not sure that the issue of reciprocity is is is contingent upon recognizing or or even exploring I should say whether the earth loves us back or or or not I to me they're they're kind of two separate issues Okay. But the idea of. Reciprocity of recognizing that that we humans do have gifts that we can. Give in return for all that has been given to us, is I think a really Jenner to and creative way to be human in the world and you know some of our oldest teachings are saying that you know, what does it mean to be an educated person? It means that you know what your gift is and how to give it on behalf of the land and and of the people, and that I think helps human people reclaim agency and a kind of responsibility to the rest of creation, which can be profoundly joyful up to say, yes, I can keep I can be part of of keeping this beautiful world going And Yeah. So to me, that's what I really mean by reciprocity in each of us has you know a different gift, right? Just like every single species has its own gift and. Those species and the gifts that carries is missing in biodiversity ecosystem is is popper. The ecosystem is is too simple. It doesn't work as well when that gift is missing and that's the way I feel about human says well, but that one week resigned ourselves to just being takers rather than givers. The Earth is missing what it is that we as humans have to give. Know here's your something. You wrote you talked about Golden Ronson Astor's minute ago and and he said when I am in their presence there beauty asks me for reciprocity to be the complementary color to make something beautiful in response. Yes and. In that way. I actually think about A. Transition in a sense from from doing scientific work doing the work of a writer and a storyteller as to two different forms of reciprocity with the world. And and and. I think of my writing very tangibly as as my way of of of entering into reciprocity with the living world it's that which I can give. And it comes from my years as scientists of of deep, paying attention to the living world and not only to their names but to their songs and having heard those songs, I feel a deep responsibility to share them. and to see if in some way, stories could help people fall in love with a world again. I mean you. You are you you remain a professor of environmental biology. That's right And and at Sony, and you have also created this center for native peoples in the environment. So you're. You're also mean that's also a gift you're bringing your you're you're bringing those these disciplines into conversation with each other I wonder am. I don't tell what Ha what is happening in that conversation how? How is that working and are there things happening but? Surprise you. Yes what we're trying to do at the Center for native peoples in the environment is to bring together the tools of western science but to employ them, maybe deploy them in the context of. Some of the indigenous philosophy, ethical frameworks about our relationship to the earth, and so our programs within the Center for native peoples in the environment range from education to to research and outreach working with tribal nations on environmental problem. Solving. One of the things that I would especially like to highlight about that is I really think of our work as innocent trying to. Indigenous Science Education within the academy. Because as a young person as a student entering into that world and understanding that the indigenous ways of knowing these organic ways of knowing are really absent from academia. I think that we can train better scientists train better environmental professionals when there's a plurality of these ways of knowing when indigenous knowledge is present in the discussion. So we have created a a new minor in indigenous peoples and the environment so that when our students leave and and when that when our students graduate they, they have an awareness of other ways of knowing they have this glimpse into a world view, which is really different from the scientific worldview. So I think of them as just being stronger and have this ability for what has been called to. I'd seeing seeing the world through both of these lenses in in in that way have A. a bigger tool set for environmental problem solving. So much of what we do is environmental scientists If we take a strictly scientific approach, we have to exclude values and ethics right? Because those are not part of the scientific method. There's good reason for that, and and much of the power of the scientific method comes from the the rationality and the objectivity but lot of the problems that we face in terms of sustainability and environment lie at the juncture of nature and culture. So rank, we can't just rely on a on a single way of knowing that explicitly excludes values and ethics. That's not going to to move us forward. Are I know this I know this is a fairly new program but I, I, wonder you know are you seeing students take the take up the task of creating synergy and everything? Think you've used the word symbiosis or this to I'd saying are you seeing results that are interesting What. How people applying this or whether taking? He's such as too early for that. Well, it's too early to see it. I think in in what you know those those scientific and professional metrics if you will. But what I see is that the students who have become acquainted with these ways of knowing are on the natural disseminators of these ideas the tell me that when they are taking their other classes in conservation biology or wildlife ecology or fisheries they now feel like they have the vocabulary and the perspective to speak up and say, well, we we're designing this Salmon Management Plan. What is the input of native peoples on where how will their traditional knowledge help us do better fisheries management that the the invisible knowledge of traditional knowledge has become visible and it's become part of of the discourse. Right I would like for you to say a little bit more about this idea of the earth. Loving us back. I mean you. There's in in your book in your in your book braiding sweetgrass you. There's this line at came to me while picking beans, the secret of happiness. and. You talk about gardening, which is actually something that many people do i. think more people are doing So I mean that's a very concrete way of of illustrating this. It it is And turn to think of where to begin this in. In, talking with my environment students, they wholeheartedly agree that they love the earth. But when I asked them, the question of does the Earth love you back there's a great deal of of hesitation reluctance and is cast down like Oh. Gosh. I don't know why are we even allowed to talk about that? That would mean that the earth was adamant that would mean that the had agency and the that I was not an anonymous little blip on the landscape that I was known. By my home place and it's both a beautiful idea and a kind of scary idea we've always thought we had the anonymity of of of. That that said that people often have oh well, you know I don't matter at all in the universe. I'm just one little being So it it's a very challenging notion, but I bring it to the garden and think about the way that that we demonstrate when when we as human people demonstrate are in love for one another it is in ways that I find very much analogous to way that the earth takes care of us is when we love somebody, we put their their wellbeing at the top of list and we want to feed them. Well, we want to nurture them we want to teach them we want to bring beauty into their lives we wanna make them comfortable and safe. And healthy. That's that's how I demonstrate love in part of my family, and that's just what I feel in the garden Says the earth loves us back in beans and corn and strawberries? Food food could taste bad it could be bland and boring, but it isn't. There are these wonderful gifts that the plant beings to my mind have have shared with us. and. It's a it's a it's a really liberating idea to think that that the earth could love us back but it's also the notion I it opens. The notion of reciprocity that with that, love in regard from the earth comes a real deep responsibility. Yeah. Does it you say. I mean the. The large framework of that is their renewal of their world for the privilege of breath. That's right on the edge. Yes. Yes. You, you also use the word gratitude Gratitude as a core element and our relationship with the natural world and gratitude as something that has evolutionary advantage. A very fascinating idea. You know we think about gratitude sometimes as as an emotion that we express into the world with various targets as if it was just an individual property in individual expression. But when you think about that, there are cultures which are organized around. Gratitude through. Of. Ceremony through practices of of of reciprocity, these become cultures of of gratitude that I think have very real evolutionary consequences because. It is so much more than than. Thank you grab when you really feel that that deep connection to two, the other being. So have given you these gifts of food and water and clouds, and all these beautiful things when you feel that gratitude. I think that it engenders a sense of self restraint in how much you take because you recognizing it as the gift of another being, and when somebody gets you a gift you know you don't start rifling through their basket looking for more you take it anywhere appreciate it and and then you stop and. Cultures of of gratitude I think have ethics which promote this kind of self restraint. Cultures of gratitude also, I think our cultures of reciprocity because when we have these protocols of gratitude, we not only say thank you but it makes us want to give a gift back in return. And In many cases, those gifts that we can give back to the earth are our gifts of stewardship and their gifts of care of replanting of of of of renewal, and so it shouldn't be any surprise that cultures that that have these expressions and protocols for gratitude also we'll have enhanced biodiversity and ecological flourishing because people are are playing very beneficial role in that ecosystem as a form of reciprocity, an expression of gratitude. So. When you talk about of gratitude protocols, I, mean just concrete concretely you know give me some examples that you know or that that come to mind for you. One of the examples that comes immediately to mind are the my Houghton schone neighbors I live just a few miles from the Onondaga nation where the way that I would certainly think of as a culture of gratitude. The Hodan is shown in the Onondaga among them are justly famous for a wonderful Body of knowledge known as the Thanksgiving address this is a a beautiful oration, which is used every time people gather on a on a on a daily basis, and it brings all the people to gather in gratitude by going through all of the elements of of the creation one by one and naming them and naming the gifts that they bring to the world and to each other and expressing our our acknowledgement of those gifts are gratitude and and direction toward reciprocity in return for those gifts. And I have seen in in so many cases, the power of these words can take very long time to say, but people settle into an attitude of a finding a common ground in gratitude of saying, yes, we are all together. Grateful. The water is still here and doing its duty. Yes we are grateful to the moon. Yes. We are grateful to the food plants and to the fish, and when you take the time out of your business in your daily life to name and express all that what you grateful for if feel this great sense of. Contentment and and and wealth and agreement because those gifts belong to all of the people and so to me, it's a it's a powerful way to create consensus and agreement and and and kinship and relatedness all of this through a recitation of of gratitude, and then one proceeds to the business at hand having established these these bonds of kinship and and and gratitude. So I think it's It's a a really a profound practice at I'm grateful for having learned from my hood new show neighbors. I'm thinking of how For All the. Public debates. We have about. You know about our relationship with the natural world and whether it's climate change or not or man made. There's also the reality that. Very few people living anywhere either don't have some experience of. Of the natural world changing in ways that they often don't recognize and. In places all kinds of places with all kinds of political cultures. Where I see. People just. Getting together and doing the work that needs to be done many becoming stewards however, however, they justify that or however they wherever they if it into the public debates are not. A kind of common denominators that they have discovered. A love for the place they come from right That share even that and they may have these same kinds of political. Differences that are out there, but but there's this love of place. and that creates a different world of action. And that seems to me to kind of. Maybe wouldn't use the language and doesn't have the rituals that you describe, but in fact, comes from the same human place. You're exactly right because when we It expression of gratitude I think often comes from a place of love and recognition on in exactly might be a chicken or egg I'm not true really which comes I love or or gratitude, but they're inextricably linked. But out of that place of of love and gratitude for place I think you're right and. As much as the political leaders economic forces, etc may not be acting on the behalf of of land and people people are I think there is this you know this co arising as we call it right of of of people who are in love with their places and and saying that I am going to defend this piece of ground I'm going to take care of this piece I'm going to plant here. I'm going to take a stand here Berry Lopez talks about that in his one of his wonderful writings by talking about the Karen, the place that your feet stand the place that you would fight for and that everybody Can. Have that or should have that and if we each did have that one piece of land that we love. So dearly that that we would fight for it and care for it. We wouldn't be in this situation but we also have to believe that our actions make a difference and and that is a powerful form of reciprocity to fight for your place. Yes and I think the truth is and local places. The place we come from or the place we've chosen to be part of. We can see the result of our actions more than we can hook into the you know the cosmic. Discussion about the future of the planet. I mean even if you even if you feel. Deeply about that, it's hard to know. What you could possibly do to make a difference but you can see that in the place you live in that's right and the people with with whom you live because that interaction with place is is is not well, it can be solitary, but in terms of relief fighting for a place in creating but. That that sense of of place and responsibility for place is deeply communal kind of today it brings people together in in pretty powerful ways. Yeah. So it says you know I just want to know if there's a their communities even you just mentioned bit community near us. Are there others that you think of when you think of this kind of communal love of place or you see new? New models happening. Well. There are there are many many examples I think. So many of them are are rooted in the Food Movement. Right yeah. I think that's really exciting because there is a place where reciprocity between people in the land is expressed in food and doesn't want that. It's good for people. It's it's good for land. So I think movements from tree-planting two community gardens farm to school local organic. All of these things are just at the right scale because. The. The benefits come directly into you and to your family and the benefits of your relationships to land are manifest right in your community, right in your patch of soil in what you're putting on your plate. So I think the local food movement is rich with with wonderful examples of a reciprocity and innovation and innocence reclaiming some of these ancient ways of caring for the land and caring for each other by sharing food justice, the land shares food with us. We share food with each other and then contribute to the flourishing of that place that feeds us. And I. Think you know to circle back to your point of We Love the earth, the earth loves US back. All of those, all this movement is also about what is more delicious I mean what is good for us and what is delicious? So there's this great. There's this delight that's part of it too. It's not all eat-your-spinach as they used. Exactly. It's true. It's joyful You really you really see that spinach tastes. Exactly? Know, what the other thing about it is that to me, it's an antidote to the message that we hear way to, which is that what's good for the environment must be bad for the economy but this is such a false dichotomy and the local food movement just disprove that left and right doesn't it to say then what's good for the land is also good for people and for community and for biodiversity, and it's enacted just the right scale. Yeah Yeah. I WANNA. Read something. From I'm sure this is from braiding sweetgrass And because I'm asking most wondering about you know what you've learned in the course of your life how? Your sense of what it means to be human has. if all and is evolving and not that I expect you to answer that question but just like how would you start talking about it but I'd like to read this. Beautiful passage you wrote about reciprocity and kind of in the context of this. You know what you are learning about what it means to be human. The perhaps didn't know or might be might have been surprised to hear this. But when you were child that this is how you would see it so. He wrote we are all bound by a covenant of reciprocity. Plant. Breath for animal breath winter, and Summer Predator and prey grass and fire night and day living and dying. Our elders say that ceremony is the way we can remember to remember in the dance of the giveaway. Remember that the earth is a gift we must pass on just as it came to us. When we forget the dances will need will be for mourning for the passing of polar bears, the silence of cranes for the death of rivers and the memory of snow. I mean, that's That's one of the hard places are. This world who straddles brings you too but again. So how how all these things you? You live with and learn how how does they start to shift the way think about what it means to be him and The passage that you just read in although experience I suppose that that flows into that. Has as I've gotten older brought me to really acute sense not only of the beauty of the world, but the grief that we feel for it. for her for key. That, we can't have an awareness of of the beauty of the world without also a tremendous awareness of the wounds you know that we. See the old growth forest and we also see the clearcut we. See The beautiful mountain and we see it torn open from mountaintop removal. And so one of the things that I continue to learn about and need to learn more about. Is the transformation. Of. Love. To grief. To even stronger, love. And the interplay of of love and grief that we fuel for the world. And how to harness the the power of of those of those related Impulses. This is is something that I have. ahead to learn. Oh. You wrote Somewhere. In Gathering Moss. When I say my morning thanks, I listen a moment for a reply. And I I wonder do you have a ritual of thanks that that you do every day? Do you have a I? Two words you speak I mean I wonder if you say those words for us, even if won't be able to understand them and also I'm curious about you know what are you here back in reply? Maybe just give me. You know ever or this morning. My my morning ritual. Is that I live out in the country and I walk up to the hilltop behind my house. Around the the time the sun is coming up and. And stand on that hilltop and and just breathe in the sound of the birds or the wind and the bare trees as it was this morning and and center myself in that feeling of gratitude and recognition for all those other lives that are around me. My words of thanks are are modeled on the knobby sunrise ceremony in in acknowledging Four, Cardinal Directions, and and all of the teachings and the gifts that are given to us from the east from the south and the West and north. Then I send my greetings also. And most especially to Meshach mccray to mother earth and. To the great mystery above. And recognize that there m I. This one human standing at the center of all of. Those directions and feeling acutely my responsibility for gratitude. And what I like to do is is not to ask for anything but just to be grateful for everything that I've been given and to I suppose there's one thing I ask and that is that of all the gifts that are given to us I I. Have the capacity and can grow into using them well. You you hope somewhere and I can't find it in my notes about. A ritual that in and I believe it was in Papua ritual that That a person who's being honored rather than receiving gifts. Shares that back is is the one giving gifts to others I i. really I loved that. And that actually makes a lot of sense along the way we do it. It is a beautiful ceremony. We call it the giveaway giveaway. That's the that's the giveaway or a minute walk. Yeah where in return for all that has been given to us and. That we give gifts back To each other it is the essence of of reciprocity. say a little bit of the of the of your morning. Thanks in the amish nothing. I. Can you know a I'm trying to think of whether I should Okay. Okay. I get that I get. Okay well so. When when you say I listen a moment for apply I. mean I understand that that's a different kind of listening than. And then you hear hero voice from God for. Yeah but but but what what what, what have you heard what have you heard back as a reply across the or if hearing is even the right verb. I, think in the passenger frame to especially what I am listening for as I give my thanks to the earth. I really you want to hear. Whether, the earth is grateful for us us as as human people. That's really what I'm listening for is, can we have? Can we live in such a way that Earth is is is grateful for us. And the things I suppose that I hear back or equal. Parts of affirmation of the beauty and the potential and the imagination and the creativity and love of human people. but I also have to say that I also feel these sense of what I would say. Of Loneliness coming. Back from. From the Earth beings that they feel forgotten. The here they are bearing all these wonderful gifts for us. Now, we don't even know their names and for the most part we we bypass them as if they were just stuff. And this is what some philosophers have called species loneliness and I think when that term was first coined the meant that we as humans were lonely for the council on the companionship of other species. But. What I feel is that the other species are lonely for us, poor health great for our regard. And our appreciation. a so this is wonderful ravenous or anything anything. I haven't asked you anything you'd like to add. You have asked such wonderful questions that have really gotten to the heart of it. I don't think so I don't think. So uh-huh. No. Okay. Yeah. Thank you so much for making the time for this and It's just been delightful to kind of delve into your way of being and. Seeing and You're poetry the poetry writing which so wonderful. Thank you. Thank you and I so appreciate your bringing. these ideas and all of the ideas on bring on being bring forth. It's a it's a wonderful conversation so. Maguette shrill that, and you know what there is something I can see. As as quite naturally, say meek which you. Would say that. One of the one of the expressions that is useful to me is that I always include for all of the direction is is. CAN GEICO COM Megyn. which is a thank you for everything that we have been given. Thank you so much. It's a wonderful last week. Great so much. Thank you. Chris.

scientist US Moss writer KRISTA Tippett annecy Bausch and Lomb Robin Wall Kammerer Christie Mesa FETZER DOT Org FETZER Cristiano Mike Greens Reyes London York Carlisle Indian school State University of New York
Young Girl Mastered Cross Eye Dominance; What Is A .300 Blackout Good For; Achieving Long Range Ballistic Superiority With a Potato Gun: Gun Talk Radio | 4.26.20 After Show

Gun Talk

45:30 min | 6 months ago

Young Girl Mastered Cross Eye Dominance; What Is A .300 Blackout Good For; Achieving Long Range Ballistic Superiority With a Potato Gun: Gun Talk Radio | 4.26.20 After Show

"That land though Wacky gun talk after show crews gathered and there's no telling what they'll say is that time again when everything we don't want every falls off the rails no matter what we do so it's the after show in here we are you on just end it now or sign off some would say. We ended a year so episode. Two episode two. We got jammed got Michelle. Hi Guys we are quarantining electronically so I love that man got our filters and are we gonNA earn known before nurse John here? We're just do those. That sounds great. Some would that an improvement. I WANNA grab an. Because he's been patients he's been on. Hold for a little while here out of North Dakota and thank you so much for hanging around. How can we help you today? Topic come up about cross dominance of someone who's now of knit. I is not the same side of their body as their handed right. Okay I'm very left. Eye Dominant but after very right handed me too and it doesn't slow me down. I learned to shoot left-handed. Well that's what I keep saying. Look if you want to do this you really do. Need to switch on long guns. Just switch over to the left side. If you're using your left I it's kind of pain it's easier to. How would you when you started switching over the same here? As soon as I was eligible for my first Hunter Safety Cars and my dad and all his friends were very active in something called the Isaac Walton League state and you know they trap shoots and they were all big bore shooters and they're all coaching at the local Indian school because the Indian kids had Twenty two rifle team. You know doing the Postal competitions what state was that? Kota South Dakota Okay and So when when it was my turn to start learning to shoot and dad figured out that. Oh she crossed dominant no problem just starter learning to shoot on the left act. I can remember when my dad figured out I was left. I hear you said with your toy. Guns with your. Bb guns with everything else says nothing goes to the right shoulder anymore. It's totally left shoulder now. You and I both did. We were young. But if you're an adult it's more difficult but I have no about this about this off of you to all. You're really trying to get comfortable with it. It's just feels awkward at first. It's real weird but if you were to keep a BB gun or a gun of some sort some kind of long gun handy and basically shoulder it and aim it a hundred times in the evening for a month year would get to wear just felt comfortable and I think you could just blow right through the awkward part pretty quickly. Were you think I would work well soon? As Dad checkered is cross dominant. I never attempted firing anything right handed again. We're now twenty two went to the left shoulder. one. I learned a little bit about pistol shooting at went to the left hand. The only part dad did was he started me with a revolver a couple of years later when I needed to learn how to shoot Nineteen eleven by that time I was used enough to. This is the way it works that you know if you start handling it left-handed that's the only branch going to play with. And see and I do it the wrong way. 'cause I shoot right hand guns shoot right handed in Longgang left-handed but with the special I tell you it's You know at least with a handgun. You Ain't right handed and kind of move your head over it. Still use your left eye for aiming so it's really hasn't been a problem so I appreciate that and that's good for people to understand. It really is on long. Guns is really important to try to get to the correct shoulder the same shoulder as you're down. I if he can't do that then there are ways you can address it. You can do a little dot on your student glasses over. The is lazy. I picked up There's all sorts of tricks we all use. And actually that's not a bad idea to have that one in your hip pocket you get from. You know the drill. If you're out say you're hunting all day and towards the end of the day your eyes can get tired and you can have your non dominant. I try to take over and you start missing late in the day and you think I'm just tired. Which really going on is the wrong is starting to take over. And I've seen this number times. You take a Tuba chapstick. I can shooting right handed for instance and just touch it too. They're shooting glasses. Make little smear little dot on your left Linz and then you can see around for everything else but when you pick the shotgun up put your shoulder now look at the Left I. It's smeared out so the correct I takes over again and you're shooting improves. But that happens a lot. The shotgun instructors telling me. Oh yeah you'll get a switch in your dominant. I when you get tired. That's kind of interesting. This is weird stuff out there but we figured it out when I was ten and so I've just always shot left handed although I am right hand dominant and it's one of those things of just learned to do it now. It's not a big deal at all and it is not a big deal at all and it's watching me do bold action trying to get off two or three shots at deer is very interesting. Do you reach over? And over your. Yeah I can do that. Gary interesting did that and went to the Olympics. Shooting that way so you can certainly be done. I appreciate that I gotTA keep scrutineer. Thank you for that call. That's pretty cool guys. That's talking about adaptability. You know particularly we start young. It's it's easier but you know next time ten. I'll switch over there you go. You haven't gotten past ten kidding jockey emotionally mentally meal mentally right and and you know more than anyone though the expense that comes with left hand items right. I mean everything costs more your shotguns or more. You're writing are more. Yeah the downside and the fun part is I. Don't worry about shotguns. A symbiotic or pump. I use right hand Wednesday. Don't bother me obviously bolt action rifles. I'd like to have left handed ones. That just works better and unfortunately there are a lot of them out there now. Savage has ruger has a shooting or something. And it's coming across your. You don't ever see you don't see okay now. It's never see it our say. Look if you're if you're looking at the empty is coming out of your gun. Maybe while you're missing just a thought sad I mean you can be specific in the fact that you want You know something that from the bottom bottom ejection shotgun and model thirty seven. Bobby Jackson here you go and the old Browning fee planets bottom right. I WanNa talk to Patrick here. Leave me along Patrick. Help me out here. Get me out of this mess. This is fun I listened to you for you. Got Your big quarter-century here and I've listened to you for about almost fifteen years of that and Portland taken all of your your your advice and when you say by something I went and bought it so So you know five. Six seven years ago I was a three twenty seven guy. Bought some of that big Henry big boy and that's just delicious and I've been in nine millimeter. Nineteen eleven guy in ten millimeter guy and they last me weeks with all the craziness Some guy had for about a couple hundred bucks a three hundred blackout. That I didn't need and so I've been done a are those things. I guess. It sounds so Simplistic but with a I don't WanNa say what do you do? What what. Where should I go with that time? Okay so you bought a are and three hundred blackout right correct and I've got multiple to twenty three five five six ers from From Going out enjoying time with the kids shooting spraying etcetera got other things but and then so. I got this what your mom told your buddies person for most of Brownell and we got a red green dots. Go come in so they might as well already hearing on the on the on on it and it was on it if they they said it was on sale and I needed it so I go. You're actually telling US Patrick is. We've cost you a lot of money and you're calling to thank us in but the problem is I mean. That's well it's not problem. It's just word now. Go and and what what do I do with the three hundred blackout? Sure Well it's like when start to play poker and what you just did you put and put in the anti now you get to carry so young now you have to have oppressor. Oh my God workers if you're going to take advantage of the blackout. Donna Have Kim Right. I mean I may or may not have a decibel reducing device on a two twenty three and it is. I don't understand why no one has that you can use on the you can use the same one in the blackout once. Now now you get a thirty L. Can in the meantime I mean you go out and shoot it and it's the question is what is it good for honestly not a damn thing that I can think I mean I mean you got two to three five. Five six is with the good heavy bullets. We have available now honestly. They will do pretty much everything that blackout. We'll do the only thing that blackout really does. Well is go subsonic. That's really it's only reason for existence as far as I'm concerned and with Good Ama- with five five six as you can shoot deer and hogs and everything else and if you need something bigger I would just go ahead and jump up a our platform and shoot three await them so I mean but having said that now it sounds like I'm saying that this is not a good. It's a wonderful caliber. Once you put a can on it it just it's like Oh God. This is so much fun shooting decides. He wants to get a can he could order and have it by Christmas. Twenty twenty one twenty two. Yes shoot I did. Go shoot a couple rounds through it and that is unbelievable difference but for lack of a better it sound for worse than shooting and a K is a comparison AKA ballistics. And all you think about it. Yeah that makes sense. Noise like yeah. Yeah it's it's I think until you put the can on it. You're going to not be terribly enamored of the whole thing because you're gonna say well I can just shoot my five sixes I would say just go ahead. Put the order in you know. Don't worry about it once it's done to sit back and when it comes in and go ahead and wherever you can try to get you Michelle Doj they get us supply of subsonic blackout Emma. Absolutely and right now. It's probably going to be a little bit harder to find with everything that we just went through so so start the only supply a little bit. Well that that's going to be okay because it's GonNa take you twelve to eighteen months to get the can so you don't need to rush out and buy that? Amil right now available you know. Get a few thousand rounds of subsonic through three hundred blackout. Then you're going to love that rig honestly I what I was afraid of but I know you're busy and and dig it. I did take my bride out to to She unfortunately someway somehow were Ruger. It's a Ruger family. And we've got Several Ruger rigs and last week and we took the family out to some and the wife. Elsie are thirty eight And that's just a fabulous pistol for the ladies night and we C. Shot you know the five rounds and he said. Let's do a couple more she. Let's do one more and I said we're done yet see goes let's shoot a couple more after a couple after about one hundred rounds. Are you done yet quayle? We're out wonderful time. She's still there either. We're we're going to stop either when we're out of AMMO or would it gets too dark to see the sights family affair. That's not good day right there. I Patrick it's can. Maybe you can call back of the ranger port and we can share it on our twenty seventh anniversary. Show well if you don't put it in the order now you won't get it then so you just gotTa go hidden there. Well let's just as we optimistically say. Hopefully the trump administration will allow me to have it oil. That one has me a bit worried. I will just tell Ya this. Whole Corona virus thing has the potential for sea sinking him. And I don't know if you saw Joe Biden just put up his manifesto anti-gun manifesto on his website. It has every single thing the gun banners want. It's all under the Joe Biden name if you go to the Joe Biden Dot Com. It's unbelievable. They took. I'm sure that one of the gun ban groups wrote it off for him but it is a total deal. It's banning assault weapons semio's Buying them up one gun a month. Well they actually don't say that they say gun rationing and then determining the government would tell you how many guns you own and I'm thinking. Yeah what three two one nine possible. Because he doesn't stand for any of that right somebody else's manifest except that he he did yes he doesn't remember it. Goodness wow I mean it's it's bad so if if we all of us every single American gun owner doesn't get out to vote for trump. We are fools and we're going to get gun control like we have never imagined in our worst nightmares. I can't I can't even comprehend. If they get the White House and get control of the Senate everything will go through. Every one of these things will go through that horrific so thank you so much for making me think about that. I was having a good time. Dr Patrick Thank you for making me spend more money. Do I'll neighbor you for Awhile. And then you call and enable me and it all works out wonderful. Thanks appreciate the call. I love that image of the family and his wife's she won't quit until the run out of Hamburg right. I do too terrific a good day on the range right there. It is and you just go you know. We don't really have to be anywhere in fact we are now where we need to be and you know what else. And that's some people might not understand when it's like yesterday at the ranger. Dan and we have. I don't know dozen at least it doesn't guns there and that's just normally we didn't actually take lie guns. I probably had six or eight or nine and he probably had the same number or something like that it was just like what do you. WanNa shoot. I Dunno yeah sure you got 'em Yes you're now. I will say if you are invited by a friend to go. Shoot his submachine guns. The polite thing to do is to bring your own ammo. Don't count on him to supply hammer for that so he said you got nine. Yep You got five six all right. We're good and how many around that to go through. It would not be prudent to count those rounds. I just opened up those those boxes. That are thousand rounds loose so that way. You're not taking them out of individual boxes. You can't let count the empty holes. You just scoop up ammo and gentleman and you don't really know how much you've shot at that point. It's like what somebody's refilling your glass and you don't really know how many drinks you've had you know type of thing is keeping into your thumb. Can't take it anymore. That's why they make loaders Thomas really sore today. You walk around the next day. I'm stuck out in the bandage. Oh you have an accident now just to get their kids boulevard. Pretty PRETTY SAFE to say we're going to blow through this break okay. Everybody Stop Talking. So Jim can play this commercial. We'll be be right back Easy monitoring of your personal gun safe hotel room safe toolbox storage unit luggage and more is now an option with the lockdown pock. All you need is a Wifi connection to receive notifications from the puck on your phone about an open door. Any detected motion and temperature and humidity readings secure. What matters most with the lockdown puck visit lockdown PUCK DOT COM to learn more and the preorder? Your pod today visit gun talk dot com slash win to enter gun talks go long giveaway with Dale Defense Crimson. Trace Caldwell Chimney triggers and locked down the Grand Prize winner receives the Daniel Defense Delta Five Bolt action in six point five creed more price packs from Crimson Trace Caldwell and locked down and Timothy Triggers Calvin an seven hundred trigger plus two first prize packs enter now through eighteenth at gun talk dot com slash. Win another thing to be in charge. He can't stop talking just because you're on the break. I don't care I think the boss of me yeah. That was fun shooting. The stand gun is like. He's like a sewer pipe. It is stupidly crude and just you know in typical fashion. You know she got okay. Well I put a different Baltimore. You got different parts. We'll find some runs. That was not running with that particular ammo you know. These guys are the collectors. I think collectors there. The machine gun guys. Shoot Fun I just but you know honestly the one I like. Somebody said well. Which one of those did you like the best honestly? I like the Old Impeach. Forty the best that. It's slow up up up up up up up up up in this nine millimeter. Not Shooting no recall or anything say I would almost not quite but almost owned one of those. I just can't Michigan's expensive I can't do that because I'm afraid of it like it so much and then you think well we honey we downsize the house. It'd be okay so you just don't buy your car being. We really don't need that garage or the cars right now. You don't we can to the shooting range right. Get Uber out there. And you drag it all your guns love. I love the image of that. If you get the right one is war. Can I some of mine here? Okay cool can you choose the size of car for Uber like you do at the airport? Pinski truck I need a lift gate looking my Tommy. Just put this power on their own funny. There are people who actually have no idea what we're talking about. They actually. They think we're exaggerating. But no now oh man. Now I do you have to or is it dependent upon your state after port when you're in transport with one of them like where you're going federally you do. Not Okay you could just goes long as you have your tax stamp with you Ohio. You definitely have to four lines. Yeah you have to do that with weird enough. Maybe maybe 'cause I was thinking short barreled rifle. I know you have to deal with that but since I don't have any machine guns. I paid attention federal but I know for sure you may be right because I know you have to with the SBA ours right and so it may be that applies to the machine guns as well. I know you do not with suppressors. You don't have to notify him. Yeah because you know so many law abiding folks that go through all the hoops to do that are GonNa go rob a convenience store where you know there could be. Just millions of crimes committed with suppressors. We just haven't heard were all thinking the same we'd have gone to break it. That'd be great spot to go but you can't hear you. I know you're out there. I hear you bring. Oh My. Is this bad joke day every day? Oh Lordy do have to share. My heart was broken here. I'm sorry we're out of time now. Okay our our beloved national matches have been canceled very suspicious. Post-poned just gone the year coupland. You're all year round. Yes now where do you do? I don't know that they'll be anything I mean. I gotta believe the NRA will follow. And I know they are not taking this light-hearted this is not something they just jumped into. Oh No it's like everything else. I mean the NRA annual meetings and all the sporting event just like they're all massively huge expensive inconvenience and honestly in some cases. Have the potential for bankrupting organizations. Okay hand on some of these things for their income and local towns. Yes I mean. 'cause national matches go on for what two weeks? Oh Gosh now. They're month if I because era than you have twenty two year pistol. You have high power. You have long range. I thought it was really just a weekend. But for those spectators felt like it was fine laying out there in the heat and wind. Yeah you're really just like Gosh so iconic. I mean it's like this. Is it put an end to it since nineteen oh three the national matches have been going on just amazing. It really is unbelievable and everybody is feeling us. I mean the bull world is feeling that anybody that does indicate a competency. Great t shirt. That said I'm the twenty twenty twenty twenty. Prove me wrong right auto parts store and seeing brake parts for eighty-three vet which they never made the new counter rookie. I've run money. I can't find anything for that. Euro Fish Airport. They always tell the guys at each. Go get me a proper. A bucket of propwash right next to the wash Lordy. Okay I'm looking at this crazy Pocket Holster thing guy told us about bore. I that's just dumb enough to might be worth trying in letting then you might have like an extra holster laying around somewhere. There's that on the collection vol the wants rainfalls closet all right so just a little pro tip for everybody who might be getting into this early when you get holsters and take your sharpie and write on the backside of them. What gun therefore right. Yep got advice because now you got this box a holster and you pick up and go. I don't know which pistol to support it so there you go open it up boxes of guns in your Shelvin. Nope not that one. No that's too loose so when you first get it in an take a sharpie and write on it which pistol. It's four because they all look alike so just just say that might have happened somewhere. Along may or may not have been in my house. No kidding that's reality for you right there so let's see. Oh yes Michelle. You may have on the phone. I was that shooting three twenty seven l. Cr Yesterday I scrounged one up yes and so I have a new ankle holster coming. We'll have our next week. But I'll just tell you the you've heard of wilder's tactical that make the the big web gun belts well. They ended up buying her acquiring years ago the renegade Ankle Holster Company and renegade was one. I heard about from Clint Smith about twenty years ago. It was his favourite. And it's like this husband and wife is coupled and in Phoenix. And they made him. They had no website. You call them and they would mail you a flyer and then you figured out hit to call them back and they would make one and send it to you but they were really really good. They were very comfortable so I got one of those two three years ago. And that was the one that I was trying with my Elsie P. And I've mentioned last week. It was the wrong wrong gun in there. The what made in actually hit pop out so the the gun came out of the whole sermon. Okay that's what happens. When you put the wrong gun holster. Rows elastic pocket. It would hold it in new. No no so. I'm getting the right one in but yeah L. CR. In six shot three twenty seven federal. I was shooting the eight hundred. Meg starts trader stock trick. Okay Oh yeah. Yeah on a double action revolver. I don't think he's doing anything to the trigger. Honestly I was. You're allowed to sink that way. Jeez well We're at seventy took seven yards. I'm shoot and it was did a a quick six shots and probably a five inch. Group thought seventy yards without really take time to shoot the first ones out of there. I'm happy with that. Yeah did you like it? Oh Yeah I love the era. I think that's it's a really wonderful pistol. I'd love the trigger. Pull on it. You know the light weight on it. I just I've always been a fan of Smith Snub. He's but I like the L. Cr JUST A SMIDGE. Better just because Pool now when you get to larger revolvers. I'm a huge Smith. Fan As you know only too well but you know. How many times did you get the Hammer snagged on your told Stern Day win were were they hammer unless revolver after work at that one. Leave it to me. Take you one to three years. Maybe the did you say no not at all. What were you using in that time? We're using the zoo or seventies with the Hammer. Yeah I was using the thirty eight. Yeah and actually. It's a pretty. There's a pretty nice low down there for those as well and you WANNA use those for self defense as well. That'll three different kinds of also thirty to thirty two wrong thirty two smith and Wesson Long For the thirty two. Hr There's actually a thirty two inch magnum. And I think there's a thirty eight. An hour is not yet they all all the same in the handle America. Yeah Oh yeah Oh. Yeah because the three twenty seven Federal Magnum Armar much much much more powerful. It is a no hidden three fifty seven magnum. Would it goes off. You know that something just happened so funny about that is like I was just shooting my rifle. And there's like no recoil out of Henry. Never thank goodness. This just feels like you're shooting. I mean cruising physics doesn't come into play so you're saying that when you go from a one pound revolver to a seven pound rifle it makes a difference. Oh okay good to know. Whatever at the point out the obvious. I'm just saying it's I think that's a very large caliber and that small pistol but it handles it so well and then you put that in the rifle and again it's like yeah plinking and you're like well. I'm shooting a three twenty seven out of that. So Tom they do. Make a rifle. That's the same caliber. If you wanted to match up your show. Yesterday was the Smith and Wesson are eight revolver which is an eight shot. Three fifty seven magnum big under lug. If that'd be a big honker now it's a big revolver in. It feels great and so just for fun. I was shooting those just straight up. Wad Cutters thirty watt cutters. You talk about like just nothing's happening because they're probably going seven hundred feet per second with one hundred forty eight grade wad cutter. Stop for coffee. You just hoping to get all the way out of the barrel trigger. I got time to get a bite and check back Michelle. Have you ever had a barrel? A bullet stuck in a barrel and I have not but yes. I'm sure they've been store. Yes absolutely yes. I did early early on when I started reloading because I really wanted to load some light loads my did. He had a very nice three. Magnum Smith. Foresee did not stack a bunch of the first one. I went okay. That didn't sound like opening up. You look down the barrel and go dark in there. Snow White coming through kind of low. Jeff of Magnum primer not enough. No kidding have charged powder definitely do that half charges which to your point Michelle. I don't know if people call it. What you just said is when you said how many there have been a number of people who've sat there shots thing Bang Bang and then let's keep sticking in the barrel until with revolver into the last one and we'll go all the way sudden it's locked up the cylinder no different. Wouldn't you check after the first one didn't soundary? Some people are not that attuned to things. What'd you say paying attention? I've seen it happen with shotguns as well get a funny sound stop immediately because a good chance that the wad is now stuck in the barrel. The plastic very good replication of the sound time tubular almost a musical theme Weird sound like that. So Tom Use. It seem sound effect. When he does his world renown potato gun impersonation now we do Magnum potato guns. Baby tell you about the inclu improving the ballistic coefficient potatoes. Oh Yeah We. We'd actually did a test. We carved into potatoes. I mean this is what we do right and you walk the streets free and that was always a good until we start putting boat tails on them. We're loaded them up. I'm we're carving points into potatoes and I'm here to tell you get probably another thirty five or one hundred yards when you're launching at about a forty five degree angle really. Yeah Oh yeah because we were trying to hit jet skiers say that loud like Nutria food. But that's the thing. They are biodegradable. That's hollow point. You know we didn't do that because I'm not sure you get enough penetration to get him to open up the mushroom SPLAT. Maybe mashed potatoes. Of course we did have the accessory you know you take your kitchen calendar put over the muzzle. Now you can do franchise guys. Hey Dave hold this for me ask it was. We thought it'd be goofy but actually it did improve the performance of your potatoes soon. There you go you know. Gosh makes them harder to retrieve. That doesn't I'm sure told the story about. The COP came to check on us when we were shooting the potato gun that time. Good story retell. Yeah let's see was I think Christmas holiday and the kids were young and we took them out to the local school where there's nobody there be field right figuring pickled playground out there and there's nobody there is holidays and we're sheep potato got of course it makes sense my Ryan who you guys know now. And his sister. Mary are down range about one hundred yards out there where they can see the potatoes coming out of the way. I'm not sure why that an appeal. These things off in up atop a hill C. spleech Karstadt coming down slow. Moving slow comes around pulls in behind our car there. This big officer gets out. He's campus security. He comes over you shooting fireworks said no no sir. We're shooting potatoes. I swear he looks at me and I said. Watch this another. That takes off. He looks at me. Shakes his head. Damn I gotta get one turned around and got. His car drove off a good thing. He didn't ask him to hold your beer. And your kids still. Have those catchers gloves? You bought them no How funny it was hilarious. It was just like perfect is priceless. Am I gotTA get one days? Probably not as COOL IMPROVED TASTE LIFE. Exact run using a bottle of the hairspray nears fuel always different propellants hairsprays. Good guy though. Yes yes is the brand of choice. Survey data guns official. I would hope so she shaking head it makes a difference. Does some of them just like look? I was from the big hair days. I remember the power back for next fifty but but it coats the inside of the chamber talking about sticky stuff. Sure Oh my goodness she. She's butane to make a difference. What kind of potato you know. We always use the just regular baked status but our trick was when we made the barrel that you ended up. He's like muzzleloader hit chevrette in I would champ for the end of the muzzle and make it really. Sharp shaves it as he put it in as you get a nice good see on yet were well. Yeah this is a project your schooling right now. I'm not saying it was ever done but we actually made some. Sabo loads you use paper towel and a Golf Ball my God. You get an outy suburban and you know what the added benefit is. It sets the paper towel on fire. Oh great so now. You're firing a trooper. Gieco with flames. Come flying out in late August wheatfield. It's great project maintain hybrid. Were all right but we should go. Everybody else already has gone guys. We're doing this Brown entertainment now. There's no listen. Don't tell pat about it okay. She hasn't listening to have set for so many years. Laurie tell somebody last night. So we've been happy married for twenty five years now. We have been married for forty seven and a half five grandkids in their glass. Graham for another potato twenty-five years twelve and a half for each of US actually. I think the grandkids are probably old enough. Now we could introduce them to the whole tater relive some time there. You Go Since give gun talk dot Com by Wednesday or some home videos. I'm thinking you're going to do it. Go all the way. I'm sure there are plans out there. You could build a potato gun. Gatling gun revolving barrels a whole deal. Larry Potato. There's probably some farmers near you that need to get rid of some potatoes with the restaurant industry. Not being normal. That's true you know. Just don't make the mistake trying to use sweet potatoes. Just not the same at all. Doesn't have the right consistency. All you get is like candied Yam or something ferry. Did you just start all over the microphone. No no her mask stopped right. Good good deal. See Ninety Four C ninety four and ninety four and ninety five. Whatever take whatever all right guys have yourself a great week one gun a week is all we ask just by one okay. Simples that get right on that there. It is right. I got my new three twenty seven Magnum revolver and padded you. I knew you'd be happy. That is good move. Yep So next week we're gonNA talk ankle holsters. You know how to use them what to do with them. Actually think that make sense right. Yeah say I could ask you to go to the range but make sure you bring three twenty seven Ammo. That is my problem. I don't have very much of that laying around. I've got everything else so it can be hard to find. Sometimes you gotta look this Black Hills make it. I don't know I think they've have. They make thirty two. H In our weight standby here. I'm going to have had dead air while I go and look online for ammo. Federal American Eagle Ice Sheet that frequent name. Oh that is a really shrill whistle thirty two eight hundred ninety grain f. l. p. what bullet designation is Flat Point Point. L. Lead that's it flat point lead there it is Seven hundred fifty feet per second. There's your good practice round right. There Black Hills ammo now. I want who I wonder if we could get to make that hundred Badger. You're you're there with me. Weren't you know yes club? But now that you're on born thinking that stoke thing up in the Magnum not the thirty two eight hour but the three twenty-seven into that with honey badger little hairspray on the end of it paper. Pay Good to go right. They're this this. This thank all right guys. I will see you next week. You know maybe you will maybe happy. We've got projects going by. I'm getting out and about by. I don't know everybody else associated distancing or if they just don't want to be around me so everything. Why won't the dog come near me? Throw up and roll a New York. Take this collar life. Ticks and fleas will never never stop applaud poverty. Thanks for checking out the after show and don't forget to join the gun talk true squad at Gun Talk Dot Com and grab gun deleo for your smartphone. It'll save you money on guns Ammo van more.

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