2 Episode results for "I. Emiko"

562: Arrow S7E20 Review: "Confessions"

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1:22:16 hr | 2 years ago

562: Arrow S7E20 Review: "Confessions"

"Welcome back to the speedy. Aero cast. I'm Rick Ojos, Dan, Morin, and I am joined by my co hosts in separate interrogation rooms, John Moulton is here. Did you do it? John molds, Dan. I just want you to know because I don't know if everybody who reads, this podcast knows. But I'm incredible park were. I did know that actually. Also here guy English. Stop lines me guy. Tell me the whole story. Well, you know what I look at my friend John Moulton. I just think we have to protect him. I like hearing that. Himself. Mainly we are, of course, year to talk about ERO season. Seven episode twenty entitled confessions which is a pretty good title for this episode since there are many confessions in this episode. Some of them real false. And I believe that guy has chosen to do the recap of this interesting and different episode. I have, and I think just lied to you guys. John before the show, we were saying that this would benefit from, like a thirty mile view. And I guess, sure I got I got little notes, and I did it. We're counting six hundred and eighty five words, so many not as bad as usual, but still not that six hundred drive. See if that's more or less than a number of words in my notes. I have more than that. But that's because. Right, right. Like sentences. And then just that's it. Yeah. Full anyway. Whatever who cares? Nobody gives out this. So everyone cares for you know what, what's really making me hot turn onto the speedy IRA is, how do they take those notes? Anyway. So we opened on a crime scene with two dead guards Ollie, Ollie, and the team were on sight in a separate colored flashback. The gang is discussing how to get the lost chemical weapons bag digging Ali, visit this guy, Mr. Toft at aerodyne industries, he does not seem to want to help at all. So Felicity hacks into this is accounted in interviews and stuff. But basically, the floor vents. Turns out in the fastback Felicity has hacked into toss accounts and determined that he was on the take from the ninth circle. And it turns out somebody else was on the scene. Not just all the team, and it turns out that somebody was a boy, boy, which is awesome. Yeah. You worry park or boy? So, Dan, what's actual name pourquoi? Yeah. Only gets to call them that though. Weird. Do you know what I almost started bidding on that? And I'm like you know what? Just leave that. Dining wants to know where it was after he went missing, and what he was up to but know there's all these cancers, because he was traveling the world thea has it back in the flashbacks, turn the worry tells Ali, that has finally passion which from the sound of it sounds like killing ninjas. Is your passion and destroying Lazarus pits? But whatever it's better, the dating Alex. Moving up in the world. If you're gonna live your best life, it's not going to be with Alex. Voy does. So they've got to infiltrate dine industries to get some McGovern. And so does our court and it is pretty awesome. And then he doesn't even more awesome thing where we flips so down and does a like an arrow trick shot. And then slips through the spinning fan that he just got through and it's a big fight fight fight with a three guys in hoods. In the control room Felicity lies at she didn't see any guards, but she had and leaves to go check things out and saying, we can't just leave them there. She claims not to know where was when the guards were killed. This is all happening in the interview room in SAP boy, getting into by the cops, just like the good old days. And he says he was attacked by ninth circle hoods and in another big fight fight fight. He beats up a bunch of them doing some awesome Perko were fighting. But gets knocked up. During his interview, Diggle says was unconscious when he found him on the floor. They notice that he has blood on his sleeve, and that's not a good sign that people interviewing him I should say Dina and our our biff for this season. I think the hardest, the hardest working constable patrol sergeant being Li things is, is real bad, man. This guy's on the case this it's true. Sensory biff things Li Google that invited out that it's like some classic VC character should too. Pretty good. Anyway. Diggle claims it Vinnie split offer him when he saw it and make it run for it when he chased after her Diggle went to went and found boy, Dan he heard gunshots. Ring out Diggle investigated to find t- dead. Guards Diggle, then looks up sees Renee standing over the bodies holding pipe when be cut to being interviewed, and the cops want to know whether MRs, where his missing glove is that's seems to go nowhere. But whenever in a flashback. Ali checks on venite to make sure he's okay before they go off on this mission that the where things went south on saying that hit become close Emiko kind of a good talk. But basically just setting them up as they both care about Emiko, but. Vinnie has it Real Sociedad on Ali at this point things that she's just like a liar? Wants to be wary of her. As version of the story on interview is that he went after Emiko, and that he didn't catch up to her in reality did, and she holds them at our point, he tries to turn her onto the light sort of the force and she admits the cheap Mr. being the, the lead of the night circle and tells her your mother wouldn't hate what you've become. So she grazes him with an arrow and takes off. Then finds Oliver on the platform over the two dead bodies holding a pipe. Ali says not a smoking pipe smoking. Yeah. Like all the in the conservatory with the lead pipe. Vigilante pipe pretty much that kind of play. If you beat somebody over the head with the pipe. Where did they get that pipe from anyway? Whatever. Pipes dummy. Anyway. On his interview, Oliver says that he book into the ventilation room did a fight fight fight, then he disarmed, the device hurt the shots and then upon arriving on the scene. He says he found his sister Emiko had killed the two guards. We don't see him see that. Back in the in the cave through all having little book club and diner rise. And it is revealed that it has all been a scam. They'd lied and that got away with it because of being xlii as all biff ever turns out to have had the right idea to stymied by superiors. The real story. So now we get to see the whole thing, sort of thing from beginning to end. Dinah is with the team as they go into the subway station, all Ian Dina gets the ventilation moon, voice fights the hoods in the corridor as we saw earlier. But he gets knocked out for a second and then gets up and he goes into a full miracle ridge when the transit officers tried to stop him, he attacks and beats them to death with a pipe that he found on the ground because it's clue. It is clue. Yeah. Mira cooter Rancho. Yeah. But that's what you're reading my notes in time. I have not. You make wrong. This is all in folding you may be surprised did not do an editing pass on this happened before exactly the team arise and ROY is a broken man. They stop from beating on the guy and he's sort of. Can wild-eyed and killed up in a ball. Which is where all he says, we have to protect them all also looking pretty shaken. And then. My nights. I was hoping to just roll into this one, but now you're gonna have to beat it. Oh, shoot that wasn't. Sorry. Shoots turns that wasn't Mira Q. How did that? How did you die is what all he has to ask voi-? I did not see that coming. I actually I got it right before like as right as they're talking about it. I got it. But he says, I think I know what it was. I think right. When he says, I think I yeah, right around the time of that. I think I got there just about the same time all he did. It must be something. I didn't really quite get it. But. I can't remember I think I think before he admits, I think I got it to. But because they were talking if they spent a lot of time talking about the laws, but that was a tip. But like it was it was right around the time. All he says, I, I know what it was like. Yeah. Me too. I did not. I really just thought it was quite then. But anyway, that's my note. Say, oh, shoot. So it turns out during a on the Lazarus ROY took an arrow which is ironic. He says then the're resurrected him in the lasers fit, and then destroyed it. They were trying to keep his, his murderous rage under control. But. Oops, I don't know. He said something about Mira q, who cares doesn't matter which machine. They find emiko's. Luckily, somehow they find although now in hindsight, I guess, it's a set of defined MacOS Hitler. And in what appears to be the dumbest thing dumdum all the his ever done. He tells ROY to come along, because they're a team they just killed innocent. I question that decision as well. All these like you're brother to me come along. And let's put you in another situation where you make people. When he's not being at Dickey's being dumped on. Anyway. All basically manages to confront Emiko, but she's in a glass booth which seems like an obvious. Gimme that I don't know why. Every other villain hasn't thought of that. I. Emiko tells Ali that she didn't warn their father about the bombs on the gambit when she had the chance then she blows all. Yup. Which have to say after all of these years is pretty good. Villain move Ali looks pretty much done for. He's got like a big heavy love on them. So there one one additional detail. He we also have the brief scene where Felicity. Thanks Dina for getting rid of the footage at the subway. Yeah. Right. She says that wasn't me and then Emiko reveals of course, she sent it to fifty fifty Li. Early. So they're going to be in trouble. Yes. They'll get me in trouble. Yeah, I miss that him. And it was actually pretty engaged in the episode vitamin there. Well. It'd be different than I thought exactly. And that's basically the end of the episode little bit of a cliffhanger or cliff follower, cliff cliff, basically, I'm pretty sure they'd just they blew up slabs it again. It's a real big hang. I, I thought this was a really interesting structure to an episode like having the intertwining stories it has like a usual suspects by two it, right. Like, I think that's kind of shooting, or like even the beginning like is Dina says, once he's brought in on the scene where the suspects or something. And so we each get filtered through each of their different perspectives, even though like the thing, that's sort of raised my eyebrows about it was like, why is tying to being so hard on them like this seems really out of character? But when you view it in retrospect, of course, as April, it makes perfect sense that she's trying to distance herself and provide credibility to their stories by grilling them. I think the one thing you really have to. Just get over it except I mean, more than recoup hit some people coming back from the dead. Is that these people kill people every day, like every every week, there's, like just dead bodies everywhere. So. It's a little weird. These guys are being leaving says that's all of it, right. Like you says you killed before, like a lot. But he doesn't mean last week, he means like prior to going jail. Yes. Which is true like you have to get over the conceit of the show, which is when they shoot people and stick them with arrows, they're actually okay or their ninjas in it doesn't matter. Yeah, they're not actual people. There. Yeah. I think that's a bit racist. Well, let me rephrase that they're henchman and they don't count. Yeah. Exactly. Yeah. But so I, I really like this didn't go the way expected it to go. Just from the even from this coloring on the, the flashbacks thought was good. I. It was well-structured. It was interesting. It kept me engaged. I didn't see. While it sort of played out not alien to what I was expect any of the characters to do. I, I wasn't sure what was going to happen. And the, the big switch, which we already talked about. I really didn't see coming good on them the so in couple. Interesting things to me. One is the. The reviews where I had a couple of things. Minor le- spoiled for me in that I saw a headline like last night. That was like, I knew ROY was coming back because I had seen the announcement that, that he was going to appear in the present. And then I saw briefly just the the headline of a recap. And it's like Roy's back, and here's a crazy secret or something. And I was like, oh, all right. Well, he's got a crazy secret. There's limited I didn't immediately jumped to he died because, but I was pretty sure that they did a nice job because even though I was kinda convinced going into, like, okay, he must have done something. They deflected enough attention from him that I was willing to buy that, like he wasn't directly involved. And so it ended up being a nice sort of double twist. There I was actually pity showed that he had been the one to murder them. But because we saw him crack earlier this season. And I can't I thought it was just a mirror cuvee laps. And I took it to me that, that's why he's hiding out on the island the beginning, right? Yeah. No. I agree with that. Why did we see him in the flash forwards he flips out or something? Yes. Yeah. You say that I, I didn't think of it during the episode. But now you say I think you're right. Yeah, because it was never clear why he was on the island. Yes. Agreed. Right. Perfect sense agree. Yeah. The other thing I was going to compare it to this, because it was something we talked about totally off topic. A while back was the reminds me of an attempt at doing something like the nine episode in the pale moonlight, where it's a very questionable narrator and be you have our characters making a decision that is actually morally very questionable, right? Like there's a discussion briefly at the end like should we he's like I should turn myself in or something. And they're like, well, then we are going to have to rehash the whole our vigilance, these are bad from the city and we have, like an active threat running around that the are not gonna be able to deal with which is a very practical answer. But yeah, you just covered up your buddy murdering two. Totally in his people. That is not a very heroic thing to do. And it looks like it's backfired on. Yes. Exactly. Yeah. It does. It seems like they're all going to jail, which is. Because it should they should get them in trouble based on, like, yeah, I guess. Yeah. I mean, I guess so, you know, we, we've watched the show for so many years now and let them in let you know and. In order to root for the hero, you have to sort of decide that he can get away with a lot of stuff that I don't think in real life, we would want someone getting away with right. But I think that's the whole purpose of the first six months of the season of putting him in prison was trying to establish, like, there are real stakes now because we like you know, in this that we the shows ending, what if we know we're near the end of the season, all this stuff, we're taking the meta, you know out of it like it should have some level of fear to it. And we also know what happens in the future in that, like vigilantes are really looked down on. And I think we're starting to get to the point of realizing why that is. And huge props to Emiko for not saying that she was twenty steps ahead Develey? I also appreciate that. She's just really effective. She blew him up. She didn't both that much. She stuck with, like an emotional thing. And then just left the scene. Yeah. She doesn't she got she got lucky. Right. Because because the she didn't like they've brought ROY into this, and she just capitalized on it, right. Yeah. That's a great point. And we also haven't seen her. We really haven't seen her morally waffle, like everything, I think, in which that was the case was kind of for show earlier in the season, where we think she's, she all ear, like sort of getting along and breaking down barriers. I think we establish that basically all of that was kind of an act. Like I mean, I think she, I think she could have gone either way when she'd Esther dead for money to start her company. Oh, yeah. But that was well before the events of the season. Yes, yes, that was like the moral turning point, when she burns, the looney tunes plans for the boat think that's. The only thing that I think she is somewhat soft on is Rene. Because I think she could easily have killed him with that shot. Oh, yeah. And she doesn't, I think she very deliberately shoots wound him. I think she does have a soft spot for him. But that's not going to change her mind about, you know, her agenda. No, right. There's not an again. Yeah. Well, I don't think she's not morally wealth there, either no point. She wants to save him. She's like she doesn't want to kill him. She has she postures that he is in danger when he's not really. Yeah. Like she even says, I'm gonna kill you this time. But like it's never gonna happen. Yeah. Yeah. But she's never like she's not a character that we've at this point. I don't think that anybody would think there's any chance of redemption. Right. It's not like laurels situation where it's like, well maybe he'll come around. Right. Like I don't think so. I think wasn't Vince that she she's bad guy. She's convinced Malcolm Merlyn Slade, even slow back around Slade sleigh was different. Yeah. I mean sleep is crazy. And even Malcolm, actually, was that whole thing when he's trying to explain it to, to his son on the good guy. Tommy. When he's trying to explain it to. Tommy is basically a crisis of his own conscience. Right. Like he wants his son to understand go along with him, so that he could feel better about the course of action. He's taken. Yeah. Yeah, exactly. So he's trying to convince himself even Malcolm does to have some sort of moral come because he goes back and forth, where he has his kids that he wants to protect and all that. Whereas Elliot, I just mean in the first season when he a big I mean after that. Yeah, but I think Emiko really has like she's just out for revenge. And that point you're totally right. She's a lot like Malcolm in season one. So, yeah, I, I thought that was an interesting conclusion in like like you said, like, John, she's just she's good. She's really good. She's really thought this through. Yeah. Yeah. You know, in thinking back, then it was like I was like, wait a minute, like this seems seems preposterous. How could she have set that whole thing, and then I realize, no, she didn't set the whole thing up. She only took advantage of leader. She grew after they screwed up right? I agree with guys Sussmuth a drink bringing ROY along the end makes zero sense. I don't understand why they don't leave him in the bunker with Felicity. Yeah. Because he's gonna lift up giant, welcome something. There's going to be some drink. He invites him along. And then we don't see any of the team right? They run off in different directions. But, like there's no there's no repercussions for him being invited long. So I imagine the next episode it's going to start. I feel like this is I can't count how many there were this season but I mean, I wanna see, like four where I was watching the episode. And I was thinking, oh, no. This is another one like this. I keep doing it where I think, oh, this is another classic aero episode which I'm not gonna like because it's too plug convenience ploughs, and some of it's still was blocking means but still. When the twist came I was like, okay now this. Okay. Now, this makes sense. Now, this is much better. Yeah. Home until, like three quarters of the way through the episode which is nice. It's nice. Yeah. Yeah. Did so good. So to your point, I did like the change of foam at, like the usual suspects kind of thing because at least that's mixing, it up a little. But you're right. I did feel like it was playing out more or less a standard arrow episode with an ice twist to the, the presentation. And then we got something pretty great out of it. So very happy. Yeah. Couple things. We'll do this. We'll do we'll do the, the ritual wanted to call out a couple of things that I liked in here. One I do. Enjoy ROY coming back down and meeting people in the bunker and Felicity like freaking out. And I think she and Emily records and called Hanes are like, really good friends. Like they haven't had I guess, they, they have a scene together in the flash, forwards, probably at some point. But still, it was very acute moment that, I liked the comment about ROY being incredible Parker which feels like a thing that, everybody, I mean, that was the thing I started reading in one of the reviews might have been on the av club or something. They talked about ROY Parker wearing all the time, and I kind of feel like that was a, a writers, reading those reviews moment and just be like, yeah, let's just like let's throw it out there to say it. Getting to which the fight fights great, but take you voice. Yep. Yeah. Was good. All these in the room with the bomb was pretty solid and within without Dina, the guy with the crazy shock staff that was kind of by the way, you've stumbled upon our sponsor. Oh. I said lecture Steph. Electric's ten percent off electric staff. Yeah, it's, it's a big Longstaff with spoke bits at the end and it's used by bad guys. We all we all get one for free. We did we did from battle droids on separatists who's using cluding general from cells. Share? And now it's available to wash outs from the league of essence. So if you order now thrown about it is, it's really great for jump starting your Spartan helmet. Got a heads up helmet. That works. I really liked all of verse thing at the end where even though misguided as it might be when Oliver tells ROY that they've covered for him. And ROY says you didn't you didn't have to do that, or didn't ask you to do that. You Oliver says you never have to ask me ever. Like I really liked to that. And I liked Stephen mel's delivery and performance on that line because I thought really sold it for me, like he knows everything that he owes ROY, even if ROY has not been on the team for a long time, broil went to prison and faked his death for all of really like that history is all encapsulated in that one exchange. And I thought that was a really really nicely done. I kind of even like the way as like he's on the team. And. In the old school. They would have been like just going to shoot an arrow and your leg. A new school Elliot's like a little bit more politics. No, he's always on the team, but that's it. It's end of discussion. But I really love that ended hearken back to me for to some of the more tender moment them, one or two kind of thing. Yeah. We're all he was basically just at dick all the time. But when it you know. Every now and then he would say something kind to either the or Tommy, or even even what's his name. At times. True. Yeah. Like like oh, yeah. After he shoots lawyer in the leg, and he goes to be moves it in his at the mansion and goes and takes the arrow out and fixes them up, and he says, look stay away from him. It's bad news. He's always had been. He's always tried to take care of him in kind of way and I this fit into that relationship in a great way that I felt satisfied with. Yeah, I if anything, my only disppointment with ROY has been, this is the only time we get to interacting in the present. If. Yeah. I think I think he'll, I think given that we're, I think the next episode basically picks up where this leaves off, it seems like called the Hanes at least six around for that, but we'll have to see what happens after that. One more thing that I liked about this was that the previous to have been sort of character like big character episodes. We had the Canaries in that we had Diggle underneath the Diggle intern show, this one, I did not know was going to be about Louis. Yeah. And I loved it. It's, it's nice to because you also get the feeling. I don't know what the situation is. There's a lot of questions hovering around next season, and how that's gonna work with a shorter episode count. And with Felicity leaving among other things, I think it's nice to bring back some characters so you can kind of put a bow on their stories, which I think is what's happening between this and the fast forwards for ROY, so that's that is a nice move to because it's not it's not quite a character study ROY but he does get a lot of moments here. I mean overall, I think it is really nice team episode as well, just because we get to go through all of their different stories and stuff like that. So a lot of good moments for the team. But yeah, it's, it's nice to sort of sort of tie up where ROY is going from here. I think. Yeah, and just to the fighting again voi-, engages two of these two guys wrapping himself around one guy's neck and grab any other guy forming like a some kind of like like the number pie. Shape. That was awesome. I loved it also. That's typically the kind of move. Like a woman fighter do. And it just loves it. It's called Stonehenge. Yeah. Exactly. Thank you. Once I got letter the number pi in my head, I couldn't get stone. And then the other thing dimension, which just sort of minded looking at this as that emiko's plan is not as with so many villains plants, not just to kill all over, but to basically ruined his reputation, and as she puts it tournament to a villain like their father, which I thought was also an interesting point, given the so much of what we've seen about Robert, especially after his death as not been super complementary. Yeah. So yeah, there's a real threat there. And again, as we've seen in the future. Vigilantes things are not great. But she doesn't spend all her time vetting about it either. No. She's, she's here too. She's here to not make friends and blow up bombs. Well, it's like pretend to make friends in and yeah, yes, she's just got him. She drops like an emotional bomb on him and then just blows them up. Actual. All right. Any last thoughts before we ritual the sucker? Sounds like a no, John, once they you. Well, okay. So I had been prepared coming into this discussion to give it a John junior because I was I was a little bit annoyed about the beginning. I and I still had that feeling even if they managed to turn it around at the end. And I also feel like some of it was still like, bringing ROY along at the end doesn't make a lot of sense. And that seemed a little black convenes play house to me. But and talking about it with you guys. I think I've decided to go with, with biff because there's enough about it. That's that was really good. It turned out that turn at the end was really good. I do even though I found some of the, the, the repetition kind of annoying as I was going through it, I applaud them for doing something, different and. Yeah. I mean looking back on it, I think it's, it's better than I was giving a credit four. So I'm gonna give. All right. Guy. I agree with John. I was visited to give it a bit. If I was excited I do like it. When I talked to you guys mentioned to change my mind, so glinting classic view. I take all of your points. There was a bunch of stuff like thinking about it that like. Yeah. So it'll be paint by numbers. But the good bits about it. I think really pulled it out for me. Just seeing it was great. Having a park dance over beams. Trick shot through a fan. Upside down, that was great. The fight fighting was aces. The character development was good. Within the. Within this sort of, structure of doing an episode like this. Overall? I thought it was green. It's a bit for me. It's a bit Billingsley. Things Li things let's keep easily. I yeah, I think I had the same sort of feeling as you guys where it's like I was kind of on the fence about this. This is a strange does feel like roads that we've we've traverse before. But what I give them credit for was key. Continually coming up with red herrings that made me question my own theory about what had happened because every time somebody's sauce. Somebody else standing over the body or thought somebody else was involved. I actually was like, was it that person or are they covering for this person? And it just kept me guessing, just enough that even though I wasn't like shocked about the ultimate. Reveal of would kill these people. I wasn't one hundred percent certain going in like, you know, definitely a lot this, what happened I liked the feeling of, of figuring out what happened like right about the time. All he did was kind of a nice reveal like it wasn't something that was telegraphed to early. It was different. It was interesting. There's a lot of good performances said, there's enough here that is good and solid, even when it felt like it was might devolve into sort of dull territory that I it came out as a win for me. So I'm going to greet. It's biff it's not the strongest. So we've had this season, but it's neither is the weakest. So I would I would give it a thumbs up. And it sort of catapults pretty well, it seems like into the last two of the season because I think we're going to kind of not really stopped from here is my guests do want to call it one piece of writing in particular that I just thought of while you were talking. When all he goes to confront ROY about what happened. I thought that was really well done. Yes. Yeah. They have a good scene. It's clinton. Hang did it happen. When did it happen, Wendy yet? So there's no, like I know what Liz, none of that. It's a it's that's a self-assured piece of writing. And that's it's that's exactly it self assured the characters no each other. You're confident that the actress complete off, and they do. I thought that was very clever very well done piece, rebounding, really served the big video. Well, so kudos to Hanes, too, I think I I do miss every time he shows up again. I'm he's really just solid. He's a really good actor on this show, and I miss having him around. But I'm glad that they could bring him back in for some more episodes, same. All right. Well, we have done are due diligence in wrapping up confessions. We have to episodes left in this season. So there's still some. Some final stuff to, to wrap up, but shall we do some superhero sleep? Anything happened this week? Thing. Anybody see any movies this week? Do you wanna talk about that? Or do you wanna talk about? I noticed that guy. Or someone put in our super Swede topics also the Gotham finale was also seen it. You. Okay. So we won't talk about that. What? To sign off. I mean this made the real like hit the spoiler sweep double heart because. Yeah, yeah. Okay. So this will be early. You may not have seen the movie we're going to talk about. It is she's am she's Zan. The movie. Everybody's talking about I. All right. We are going to talk about endgame of interest and game, which came out this past weekend. If you do not want to hear anything about avengers, endgame, you can probably safely, stop the show. Now, we won't say anything interesting what I'll do. I'll even put a chapter marker in at the end of the episode, where we just wrap rep up and sign off. I don't think. If anybody wants to you really finish line stupid stupid last two minutes of the show, you can do that aftermarket for you. But other than that, you have been warmed and we will now take our fire off our spoiler horn, and take our our moment of superhero sweep. Silence and then launch into and game discussion. So that moves with you. All right. They're gone. Can you believe what happened to game of thrones? I can barely see what happened in game. We turn the lights down. It seemed fine anyway. Okay. Okay. Switch spoiled. Superhero show kind of little bit. We'll sort of. This is a big a couple like full on incomparable episodes talking about it, but we should at least spent some time talking about it. This is. Man like if feels like a lot to talk about because it's the three hour movie because all want happens, and even as I've been thinking about it over the last several days, I still am thinking, like I'm gonna need to see this again, at some point, but I actually feel like it's the first marvel movie in a long time where I'm like, but not for a little while like at the like I need to sit with it before I dive right back in because it's like I feel like that. Twice. Oh man. I, I think these last hour is there's so much going on. So motionlessly ringing parts that I've just like I need a little break before. I see you again. So I was thinking of going tonight. And then I realized. Other superhero commitments but I think I'm gonna go tomorrow night, pretty late. Because Dan, you and I are recording on Thursday, leave. Yeah, that's comparable coop. So I wanted to see it twice because I saw Thursday when it came out. I, I don't know. I really enjoyed it. Yeah. But if I'm going to talk about it. I kinda wanna be watching it with a little bit more more of an eye actually, what's happening rather than just getting swept away. But. Yeah. It's interesting because there is there. Yeah, I don't even know. I kinda know where there's just so much in there. I have some nitpicks about some decisions that were made. I've been reading a lot of articles about it in the last couple of days, and I think that there are some really good points about the failures of the marvel movies to date and how some of them are exemplified in game, but that said it did not take away from my ultimate enjoyment of the movie, and, and feeling like it was a fitting capper to these like twenty odd movies. Yeah. And I mean, it certainly certainly for capping Tony. I. Characters. They're, they're in seemed to really fit their whole arc. Yes. Yeah. Despite the somewhat. The plot and mechanics of that plot being kind of nonsensical at times, even like time travel is a difficult concede to work with. And I think that the they hit all the emotional beats even if the logical way that the time travel works is I did not have with really very much of the logic. How does how does back? Well, okay, there's ways to me, there's a lot of ways that you can explain it, and that's really enough for me. Okay. I don't think they need to go into every detail and. Thought that you tell. I think if you make rules you should be consistent with those rules. And there are definitely parts that don't seem to follow the path that they've laid out. I think that's the whole idea of the Infinity since those rules, you just do what you want. They don't even use the news for most of it. The time travel time travel thing has has some issues because. Set up a pop culture, like, oh, it's like these time travel movies, and they're like, no, it's definitely not like those time travel movies because we. Trouble. But then it kind of like, yeah, I don't know. It's a little bit range. Okay. So if you didn't listen to us before for real, now, go away. Seriously? So when does the snap to Illich God knows what he did to the entire existence? Right. That's fair. It'd be like I want to go and have life with Peggy. I'd everything's fine. That's what I wish and that's what's going to happen. And that. And I'm okay with that. But the idea that like, when he snaps people in planes that crash where they materialize realize at home with their loved ones. It's fine. Like, you know that I'm okay with I think the thing the thing with cap and Peggy's a little strange just because he gives specifically goes back in time to return supposedly return all the stones, and then he stayed doesn't go back in time, he goes to parallel universes region. The stones, okay so and, and I guess back in time with a parallel universe then. Well, I think that's, that's what I assume because otherwise he can't he can't come things that because otherwise things that have that he can't change the past. They already said that they can't change the past. She's already, she's already lived a life with somebody else and died. Yeah. Although it's a little vague because the cannon so far they never really talk about. I don't think they ever concretely say who she not one hundred percent but she ends up with Susa the end of. I thought they said like when she was on the deathbed like I married, a good man or something. Okay. So I I really watched. We watch both all three captain America movies this weekend, because we watched endgame, we can't really want it to them. So we watch them all. It's, it's vague. There's never there's a part where pictures of her with her kids, but there is no husband in the picture. I think if the engine Tanic there. She says that that in civil. Winter soldier that he saved her husband's a unit. Yes, he says, she c-. He stopped a hydra blockade which turned out to include the man that that would go on to your husband. But that's also kind of ambiguous, that's less then. And then came back into the picture. Well, no, I mean well, he saved himself like and if he goes. Okay. Yeah. Okay. But I think the whole point is that if they go back in time, they, they create a new timeline. Regardless of anything else. Yeah. I think that was that was pretty consistent throughout the rest of the movies. So I figure he went to back anyone. He started another time line. And he lived he lived a life with peg, and then he talked to hang him or he did something. And he came back to that. Yeah. Specifically say that right there like when you go back in time. Your past is still your pass. So it's still there and then it becomes your future. So it gets like grafted on right? Yeah, I the trick is the trick is him coming back at the very end because that doesn't it's not really explained in its. But I don't I don't care that it's kind of intimated that he just got old in this timeline. So it could just be a difficult in it using it could not be the same cap. This is true. Oh, anyway, I'm not gonna say that, that really like took away, you know, too much of my enjoyment in the film, debating that there was way too much other stuff that I really liked. And so. I did okay spider fish won an Oscar for this hippie. So, so let's just go with it stuff that I absolutely loved. I mean, the moment where everybody comes back is pretty fantastic. Especially when we watched winter soldier right after the Sam on your left thing is like that was great. The chokes me up the thing that the thing that I did not see coming that really made me like yell in the theater was capping meal near like that was I was like, oh my God. I did not think they were going to do this ever. That moment in. As of ultra he goes, he goes pick it up and it moves just. Fine. You could've left it that you could have like well, okay. I think that was it was written for a joke. Yeah. Then but. In so much of this movie, they went back and picked up. Yes. Like little things. Yeah. Yeah. They like, you know, taking all of these the Bank, and guess what two billion dollars? But, like, yeah, yeah, just story wise, took them to the Bank, and it worked great seeing when we see a miniature. Move a little bit. Mio. I thought it was going to come in Concha panels on the head, it self, exactly. Nope. Awesome. That was such a it was a well earned moment. And also Thor Thors. I knew it. And he's right. Like in the John, he looks kind of worried. Right. Like that's my favorite thing is these characters who love each other and are just psyched about all being together. Again. I that's great. I think one of the best things that the marvel universe has done is leaned into Chris Hemsworth, comic shops, which are. He is like there's glimpse of glimpses of it in the first tooth or movies. And then when he's in the. Comfy down more and then in, in ragnarok, obviously, it's like just like what's do this. And they really lean into it again, here, they made some choices that I think we're less good than others about him. But overall, Chris Hemsworth, just his performance is great. Yeah, so, yeah. Full his little seem with his mother. I love it's great. Nice to get closer on that. So many things time travel. Let's do like it's very much back to the future to where like even the point where like, Tony skulking around the edges of the, you know, of his of tower in the first avengers movie like hiding from the rest of them in very back to the future for two. And he says, at the America's asked joke, which is good. Yes. Yes. Tastic. I loved cap famously does not swear. And then he comes around the corner themselves as that you gotta be getting. No. He has that one in ultra onto right at the very beginning of Altron could they make? No, no, no, no. Tony Tony says, and he says he says language. Net net says making fun of that whole fight Cappon cap was awesome. And then he knows just how to play him. Well, well, I thought it was mistake, but anyway, he knows how to play them Fisher. Oh, yeah. He's, he's alive. Yeah. Right. Which is amazing is. Oh, I. Integrating that in filth. And he's like, okay, we'll use this. I love that when he gets knocked down and getting open the other guys goes, I could do this all day. He's I know. I love the cap cap is in Noida by his own goody. Could he just like anybody? He's such a such a boy scout. Because he's involved in he's grown in that over intervening time. Right. He's, he's, he's at I and to go with both of those the scene in the elevator, of course, which was such a fantastic setup and then undercutting where he gets the elevator literally like the scene from winter soldier, and you're like, all right. He's going to have to do the whole elevator. And then he just just a hail hydra thing. Hey, walks to the like people, everybody got bent out of shape about cats being hydra in the comics. And somebody yes, I don't think most people are going to get that. No comment loved it. It's just so smart, right. Like, oh, wait easier. Could win that fight not a problem your father. It was nice. They got they got most of the same like, actually. You got sit. Well, like you've got all the yeah the big bulk guy with the beard. Would've left. I mean, this is impossible, but getting channeling would be a hurt right? Getting Redford back, like, you know, for that scene in the lobby was pretty great bananas that you can get these people to just show up like a little bit. I'm assume an I assume that the Natalie Portman stuff was full that they already felt like footage for me. I agree. But she's credited that was sort of the prized this your credit with everybody else. Contracts. Right. The other had to or they did it have any lines though. So I wondered why also agree. I thought it was probably reused footage, although I mean. Yeah. Case full of money. Plus courtesy plus agent bliss. I wanted I wanted to see rocket try to. Bizarre scene. Who I thought was like? Sort of wouldn't say a hero, but, like as far as an actor goes, like a subtle hero in this is LOKI is Tom Hilton because he comes in and he's, he's dead. But he does a bunch of extra scenes, and it, sorta seems like he's not in the movie because it's all he's all in full in the past but but at the same time he's also setting himself up for TV. With the right. And I wondered if that was the jumping off point for the miniseries. They're doing I think it's gonna be lucky running around with the space stone for a while. Yeah. Yeah. So the cool thing about having those stones, not go the way that they went in our reality, is that it doesn't matter because the Intel that phantoms gets is from, like the updated reality of that. Do you know what I mean? From the like Donald knows it. Loki absconded with the with the stone. So he knows to get it there. Yeah. Yeah. Like the way the way he manages to collect all the stones still kind of legit. Right. Because the gut is, updated along with them having moved. Well except you can't you can't change their time. Okay. So all different timelines any. Okay. Anyway, I've attract my. Timelines man. That one particular time, you know, but I guess maybe the time stone. I don't know if they're infinite if there. Well, I mean they have to go back and how does cap do all that by himself. But so it's okay. He's got he's got a hammer. It's fine. I'm not convinced that plan makes any sense because I don't think the ancient one is that convinced of it either. Yeah. That scene is a little strange because she goes like that scene. You go through a very dated explanation of why you have to be careful about this. And then it never really gets back to that will banish like I'll be right back to me. If you try to go back to being it back, you'll just create a new timeline. Well, don't think she minds I when I heard what she said. I don't think that's the problem. I think she's really. I think she's subtly referencing. The fact that door mama was coming and the time stone in order to stop Dohrmann, oh, and the, you know, like you can't just take this because I need this later because this thing is going to happen. And without without saying that specifically in. That's all they create another. You know, a slightly different time line. That's fine as long as they have the time. Stone people be she could have looked at all the possible futures, like strange it and decide that we're barely didn't so there's one of two things either her time line is condemned to be destroyed. Domo. The dog or. Went snaps his fingers, he decimates all life in his time line. And all of the time. Oh, dear. That's a real. That's a real metaphysical. No, no, no. Because that doesn't that doesn't work because there are different. They're different. Finnity stones in different timelines and because. Well, I mean, okay they've address this in the comics, at least okay? And if I mean, actually, I think, in the comics. Well, these from parallel universes. If you get Infinity stones from different universes. They don't work right in your universe. Okay. So more intense. That makes that makes sense. I've run all of the quantum theory in my head. Sure, it's like when you go to a different country, and you need after for your power. Yeah, there's a. Yeah. It's fine. It's fine. It's not a thing that bears thinking about because so much the comes from, like what's happening right in front of you. Ain't given moment. Am kind of I'm kind of torn about the time travel back to previous movies thing. I like I, I think it's one way it's a nice sort of tip of the hat to the stuff that they've done to date. And then the other aspect is that seems like a clip show. I of interleaving it and also making it a point where like sure it seems a little bit like a clip show, but you get to see like the new stuff. Yeah, the new stuff the new angles, the style, you didn't entirely see into Tony's Tony's time with Howard is Tony time with Howard is great, although it would have been really funny for capterra run into him to enjoy their, their relationship. Yeah. But he would have known who absolutely one hundred percent but it would have been great. And I was gonna say the thing that, like I it's funny, too, 'cause like I spend so much time trying to untangle certain parts of the plot. That, like I get like wrapped up my own head. So I was thinking I got a little boy, because felt like oh, Carol's first appearance, bringing Tony ship-back doesn't like how does it fit with the whole thing, where she shows up in the pagers gone off from the captain marvel and then cat had to point out to me like, no, she shows up then they sent her to go gets, but as a change of format for those for those bumpers? Right. Because usually the bumper in the next movie in this instance, it's actually. No, this is what happens in between the movie you just saw in the movie that you're going to me wondered if it was in and game. And they cut it just be. I mean they. I mean they. Over time. And that you see that you'd have to marvel anyways, so why. But yeah, 'cause it's, it's I kind of missed having that moment of like people being like who the hell are right? Like, yeah, but that would have, you know, that's like two three minutes of screen time minimum. Yeah. Like who are you? What are you doing? How do you know fury? What's going on? Oh santa's. Okay. Who's tony? Why do I care about Tony? Okay. Where do they go? It's a busy. It's exposition. It's all busy work. Whatever let it go. Save Nonni which by the way, Tony and. No. Hanging out with lovely. I liked that so much the way that they get along great playing playing finger football playing football and she's just so which is good. Although it does beg the question of, like I feel like that's those are great scenes, but it soon as he gets back with the rest of the avengers like any bomb that they had totally va- parades. I wish I think they were best. Yeah. Yeah. Like on bonds did evaporate because it was the end of the universe like that was bad. Yeah. Five years passes. I mean he goes off he goes off to the cabinet. Yeah. I mean, that's I thought that was fair. I thought it was fine. I just like to, and I didn't get the sense that they were good friends, they would just both good at tinkering stuff and hanging were hanging out and they. Very nice spec. Where where she like puts? Yeah. Exactly like. Yeah. Right. Gives him the oxygen to public. She doesn't need it. That much something but right? Although somebody pointing out like, you know, she has like this one of the, the one of the place, other places that critiques this movie come into play. And I got a good article from this, I think it was from over on nine about the role of women in this movie in the role of women in the in the entire M C, you at times being relegated to very much relegate the second fiddle and caretaker for the male characters, and nobody notices that when nebula comes back like, the, the fake nebula comes back, like nobody knows is even though she has a totally different arm. Covered it up. Yeah. No, I know. I know. I mean it's, it's yeah. I mean, nobody knows she's the wrong person, right? Yeah. And it's like, well, she's an outsider and nobody knows her that well, but that would have been an interesting moment for Tony tweak, to, for example, because he spent a lot of time with her. Super chatty. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Twenty could've notice. That's true. But caring gillen's performance in this movie's really. She's a veal up stir in this movie. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Like she carried me like. For being sort of tertiary character in, in a secondary film franchise, she carries a lot of the weight in this one, she's so funny during that football game. And then, and then later when she delivers the line that says that he won't let me. She said trapped in her life. Yeah. It's sort of breaks your heart at the same time. Be think. Yes. Shooter. That's hard acting under all of that prosthetics. Yeah. All of that, whatever the hell is going on with her. She's got act is two different people neither of whom have very likable, but in different ways like how, how did you character progress? Probably don't kill on sight is pretty much as far as she's gone, which is. But she doesn't really joined it. What was your guys feeling on on hulk in this movie? I like Brady Hoke. I missed I missed smash him book, but seeing flow. Like I wanted help to really just go to town on something. And we really miss we miss his transition. I mean he's just there already, and it's kind of weird because it seems like there was so much left from the previous movie emotionally about between him and the whole that. It's all it's just like, yeah, that's all just like. Yeah. That happens. And I think there was, I think I've read an interview where the about that. And, and I mean and you know again they can't do everything in a. Movie that's already three hours nine minutes long so little there where like you know, they're sitting at the diner with these gigantic plates of food. I love. I mean so I-. John you and probably you probably both know the comics expanded the me like there's like it's kinda like a Grayhawk thing. Right. Like isn't Grayhawk cuts? No, because. Teenage you'll. He's all go driven. He's smart. He's smart. But he's more Mr. Heidi's and. This is like an integrated as not banner at all. But there have been instances in the comic book definitely where they've had banner be. The brains in the brunt of the same thing. I did not just the brains. It's like an integrated whole of a character like right? He's got like banners, meek Meakin demure at times when the integrated sort of hook characters off more confident. He's more confident. Yeah. True. I guess some elements but not all I love the favorites with him is still the scene, where when they go back in time, and he's like they're like smash stuff on the way taxi. Yeah. Was really great. Also like the stairs. Yes. His dad vists like he's still wearing clothes. Some of the. Got uniforms, that they put smart, Hawkin bernie'll lookin jumpsuit that? He's okay with the purple yet. Yeah. Yeah. I liked it. He's like still smart. But. Still kind of screwed up the. Time travel device. Just a good gag. Yeah. I mean, that was I don't feel like I feel like that doesn't make a lot of sense. I mean, I guess Tony explanation is like the best you could probably do with time. Time time went through him. Sure that works. But okay, that's fine. And banners reaction to time travel. That's what. Right. Hey. Previous batter wouldn't have done that. But hulk banner's like just going through compare that compare that age of time raise like Tony Tony. No, no, no. This one's like look at work. I consider this a win. Yeah. We get some characters. Get more screen time here than in the previous. Movie, including a couple of people get screen time that didn't didn't even appear in the first INFINITI war movie likes got laying and Clint. I was a little surprised at how much Scott got in this one. I wonder and that was the thing. I wonder going in was how much Scott being stuck in the quantum realm at the end of man. And the wasp was gonna come into play here. I had a strong suspicion that that was going to hit it all. And it did turn out to be, although I thought it was. Yeah. I, I, I bet wrong in that. I thought it was not going to be. But clearly, it did not did not definitively answer my question which was I, I assume not. But part of me had wondered if being stuck in the quantum realm if he had been supposed to be snapped and wasn't because he was like essentially someplace. Yeah. On findable and that going to be the key. I yeah. Some kind of thing. Right. Like brian. Shield against animals rather than being the keys traveling back. But when I saw the movie they. His mom basically time travel, like she was in there for how long her time not long hopes mom, sorry hopes. Mother-in-law whatever. Cat woman was in there for how long time for like every, I think, yeah, I thought it was less. I don't know. I thought it was mostly the same. But maybe but it's I think the whole, you know, like it's the it's the perfect macguffin thing because if it's unpredictable, it could do anything unless you invented do key. Tony. And then and then you can put some predictability around. Right. Right. Yeah. So tony. Kony been saving up all those being power juices, for just just a good moment. I guess, you know, just got they're going to have to rely on cheery from now on also that. Yeah. Kind of an interesting question, which is the where the MC you goes after this. I I'm for one m really glad that. So they've described that, like the next Spiderman movies, kind of a coda in the same way that like Iran was for the phase one or two. I can't remember so you have the big clemency event. And then you still have kind of like the locations, although I loved, I thought this is as many other people did, like how many are there like now a bunch of kids, who were like five years older than their counting their classmates. No, that's the whole thing about my it's like the definitive stones a wish. Everything's back to whatever it should it be. But it is in the future, like I think they like it is technically in twenty twenty three now, so or whatever twenty might take. Did all of those people know that the other people had been missing all that time? Yeah. Yeah, we'll twenty definitely did Tony when you hugs hugs Peter. He's, he's. That's real. Yeah. Tony Tony had been on this side of the, the events that caused it to happen. It wasn't clear to me that people that fight of events, the people that got EBay or the rest of the world. Well, the, the well no Peterson Peter, he didn't know that. I mean, he didn't know himself because he just like he went to sleep woke up right? And but on your stream said five years has passed when he's when he sees Ned to it seems like they know they've been on. It's confusing. Oh. I'm assuming that the there's so many problems with that part of it like logical problems that doesn't bear the real. I will say this the real issue, I think that they come down to is that they wanted to give really only one reason that they don't just go back and try to undo things like in a different way, which is Tony, how Gordon and they don't they don't want to subject that which is at the one hand, very Tony stark and at the other hand like there, there are billions of lifeforms at risk here. We're trading them for, you know, one person. Yeah, but he's the guy that makes a fun guy. Guy who knows Catholic, gut, it probably would have kept his promise. But yeah. Yeah. But I mean, I think that, that they also more minutes. The other thing is given the rules of the Univer, given the rules of time travel, as they set them up if they did that weren't they just creating another parallel universe go live in that parallel universe. But then, but then there would still be one where everybody would be well, yeah, you can't fix all the universes. I know I want to make an omelet you gotta break some universes. Not even not even with the finished stones. But I was gonna say, I think they also from a meta perspective from writing perspective. They wanted Tony to have that growth, too, right? Wanted to set out in a way that me felt like because that was the lead in the very first thing Infinity war is running pepper talking about having a kid, and they even mentioned the naming her Morgan and all of that. So, like I think they wanted to leave that as a legacy for Tony. I think they spend, I sort of appreciate it. And I, I found it weird when I was watching it first time. When the proto would have at the event just pull up to Tony's lake house. We spend a lot of time with Tony in his kids, just one on one, which I think is great because it gives Tony a lot of. You get to see his growth. You get to see him hanging out with his kid, and he's really good dad. Here's a great dead. Yeah. I mean I mean all of his all his like that. Yeah. That's it servic cracks. It makes two people have. Being worn down, and she lives. Reaction to right. Like like he's still has the basic famous. But it's all being like e-voting bye. Bye love. And it's just so much action that it's not a he's not a YouTube that who's like taking her toys away, and then film air. No, no, no anyway, turning into your other podcast. But, but it struck me as a little bit weird. Pepe wasn't around that much. Yeah. Some not unwelcome because frankly Paltrow cut it turns out these days, but. A little weird. It felt like I wasn't sure that she was alive for a little bit offscreen that long that I'm like, maybe wonder if they were very limited knee in the time they had for her. But maybe because he does say he tells Morgan that have built this helmet or built suit basically view, mum. But he doesn't even say like it's not clear to me at that moment that is in fact pepper. Yeah, it is a little. Yeah. I think I didn't. But I didn't consider that. I know I I'm with guy shoes in the movie. Yeah. Yeah. Issues in the movie, but it would have been hilarious. If he was with the blonde lady from the first one. Really? On your experience. That would also be pretty Tony. Is he just looks up with what's the actress, sorry, it's a famous Leslie's bit exactly? Yeah. That would have been a cameo now, now going, we sort of branched off into our own parallel universe there. But I was just talking about the, the future of the after this, which is kind of an interesting state, so we have at least one, we have at least one case where a mantle has definitively been handed down, which is saying, I'm becoming captain America. But it seems like he's going to the streaming jazz series. Right. I would not say that he would he may not have. I'm sure he will appear, if there is a future movie, but I'm not certainly wouldn't rule it out. And I don't think it'll be a captain America movie necessarily, I think they're not for few years, they need to let you know leads to change. For bit. Yes. Go him up as a on the TV Sam needs to get a chance to, to grow to get that role to dissociate that from the Chris Evans cap. That's the biggest challenge that, that Marvel's can have now is even with so many of these characters who were not necessarily like household name characters. There is so much tied up in their identities. Now that like I've sure marvel I'm sure there's a part of marvel that worries like this was this was like our big one not we're not going to do fine. But like we're never gonna hit that same, right? Like about a money on this. And the fact that they're going to they're going to do the attorneys, which nobody knows why we're great when the in humans, they tried another. Nobody knows. Well, yeah. I mean, they were originally going to do that as a movie, and then they did the terrible TV series, you know, run by the guy who I think I hope they have learned to never trust again, because he also did iron fist. But, but the challenge is, how do you build up a new roster of characters? Again, iron, Dan himself was not a big character when they launched this like interactive, but he's bigger than the journals. Sure. Absolutely. You could wear the ironman, shale had t shirt and people would basically get it. But there's a question of what characters are left that are I mean, aside for setting aside, all the stuff they just acquired from FOX, which has definitely more. I mean fantastic four next men definitely have way more name brand recognition. But yeah, they're gonna start after I think they're not take a breather for like phase. And then stepping in the they'll get there. But I think it will be a little while. And there's just whether going to they're doing I mean, they still have the spider man of doctor strange. They have captain marvel presumably kept more. They can do another captain, marvel movie announced when yet. Right. But I don't think so. But I think it's, it's heavily. We will enough did well enough financial. That I would think that the black widow, I believe is also that's actually doing which leads me to other like visit a Sikh. Is it a prequel? Or is it is she coming back, somehow I think it's got to be a prequel and I'm very upset with the way that they dealt with that character I have mixed. Yeah, I think so, too, and I wonder. Like, I think it'd be a great opportunity to say that was this girl, I've maybe just sort of just let's look at the visual of injuries. Hawkeye is everybody's lease save adventure. Right. But he ultimately goes to this. Arc gets all angry. Stoats motoring people. And we have about a little ten fifteen minutes with zero in here. Sort of redeemed. Yeah. Yeah. Actually man, we should have just done a whole episode sometime. That's member. Feedstuff Hawkeye, five hell. Now, you have this movie. Exactly. Yeah. Well he was good. But anyway. Nyland called Japan. Okay. We could just on this for too long. Sorry. No that just save a good joke for when we actually do it. Dies to service history. Yeah, yeah, I'm not totally sure what hurric- is except from coming from. Well, we're supposed to believe like murderous spy lady, but immediately women see her. She's mothering banner as the hulk. Yeah. She's she's nurturing banner a lot. She is supportive of Clint when he gets taken over by lucky. She gets the worst service of banner gets good arc like he integrates his angry side with his nerdy side. Yes. Cap and have well established Rx that it for the vigilant ventures. Yeah. All of them for. She also gets thorough art. Yes, it's not his accent over. Yeah. Let me put this way. I think I one hundred percent agree with you. I don't think they did a very good job with her and part of it, I think, is they never really fleshed out her character background. They try honestly as the article I was reading about this suggested like in some ways age of drawn though it is the way it treats are is not great. It has the most about her in it of movies, which is saying something. So to me, part of the big failing for it is that we never got a really good conception of, who she was, we get little things, dribbed, and drabbed out there and in watching rewatching winter soldier, especially like she goes from somebody who cap like really is does not trust to, like, basically, they have like an almost like sibling like relationship and, and this. It's the best. Is not having, and this is what I think I'm guessing the prequel address is kind of the double agent life that she lived because we get that alluded to, like Redford says one point must get tricky being double agent, that never really goes away or whatever. But we don't really know anything about it. How did you go from the KGB to working for she'll like it doesn't make much sense? And so, I think do we know who's doing that movie yet I don't I saw away? I would think that like if the Rousseau's would go back to doing that, that winter soldier style. I mean, winter soldier style movie about her could be good. But I mean it may give it to women fighting. Yeah. Yeah. I just that it's just that I think that vibe works through wealth would were one hundred percents that give it to a woman, I has a director female director, Cate Shortland attached to it. I assume I think I kind of remember hearing that, that she was attached the black widow movie, so I think that's real. Yeah. There is a report on that from last two why. So, yeah. I think that's the villain that what you Tomic blunt. Yeah. I could do lots of remedial that if they really good standalone movie, but I'm not like I'm guessing it would totally fix the, the way that they treat her. But it provides a big opportunity to kind of flesh out, her character, and had that make sense because where you have both. I liked the assessment somewhere. I think it might have been in the interview with writers in the New York Times, which is really good. And you definitely read it. They talk about how the progression goes from Tony being selfish to selfless. Over the course of all these movies and calf moving from selfless to sort of, I think they describe it as an enlightened self interest rate like he's willing to finally step back and say, yeah, I'm going to take something for myself. And I think that. Natasha has the possibility of having that a similar sort of arc from going from somebody who doesn't trust anybody. And who is portraying everybody to being genuine and carrying about another person? And I do think I come down kind of in the middle on the way they treat her care, not in the way they treat her character, but the decision that gets made with ultimate ultimately sacrificing yourself because I don't believe, you know, agree that servicing. Hawkeye story is not the best look, but the same time it should not be purely the domain of men, disaster, vice themselves and have hurric- deaths like they're you know, and, but it was it was both women went over that cliff. I agree. I agree. And I I'm not saying that it's the I'm not trying to defend all of that decision. But I think that was a tough. They were both the strong independent, because I think if I think if Hawkeye had been the one instead I'm not sure that would have been it wouldn't have been problematic. Maybe but I think they should've sent different people. Yeah. I think it would have been boring, Hawkeye gone over just to get his family back. Nobody gets anything out of that. Other than we rendered is. Oh. Oh, yeah. I mean, the whole. Yeah. Okay. That whole thing was I liked it. I liked the tension between. Net and Hawkeye. But I did not like the way it was resolved. I liked it. They fought each other for who's going to go over the cliff. That was awesome. Right. Because they clearly Levin respect each other. They live. That's, that's the whole point of like somebody has to give somebody up but they straight any string that out fairly. Well, yes. Joined that couple of moments where it could have gone. Either way, I enjoyed the choreography on that. If not be Mia binded, right. Yes. Exactly. But they should have at least sent cap to their point at one point. So you could be like red skull, what are you doing? I don't know. Why did they try beating them up? It seems like step. One is beat that he doesn't have. He doesn't have this the stone. I mean, that's he just he just tells them what the rules are. Trick where they like, what if we throw you over that was fine? You just needed eighth. So, like didn't matter if you really love them. There's no, we didn't actually put in check some code for that even weird. Hawkeye like the, the Hawkeye from the comic books, even if that guy had did not have the stone, and it never would have help he would have stuck in our weight him just fun. It's true because why not? Yes. Agree with the vets-go face. Guess we'll get narrow just because I got nothing else to do. Well he should've known who he was anyway. But the thing that's kind of weird about that logic is that nebula was going to kill herself. And I'm sorry, good. More was going to kill herself in order to try and take because, because, you know, Thanos was killing her, and she was going to try and kill herself in order to take that away from him, so that he wouldn't be sacrificing the thing that he loved the most, and yet, these two are competing over, which will try to kill yourselves. So it doesn't given that seems a little weird but. They're different expectations for their emotions. Anyway. I think. Good forty five minutes woman for two nights out. Yeah, we're going to get back into this. That's for sure. But we are now going to conclude this week's episode because, you know, it's been a while we've talked about this lawn. So we have to those left in the season of ERO and they begin next week with our obligatory, Bruce Springsteen title for the penultimate episode living proof, and then we have one file up. So you have saved this city and, you know, we'll probably because we've done this before, and I think it tends to be fun. I think we'll probably do a live cast of the finale when we record. Just because it's a kick, it's nice to have people drop into the chat room, and we can sort of do that live, so two weeks. Look for that. And I think for the final season, we should von some kind of pool to try to figure out what the boost drinking titles, Ponente. Sort of money on this. Well, we'll give away one of teachers. Yeah. Are you going to give them? The shirt, it's just a, it's a plain white t shirt assured off, guys. You don't trust me to get you just don't trust me. I feel like I feel like. In the little icon and Skype, it looks like a gray gray t shirt for people are lying. That's it reading reading along at home. That's what's happening. All right. Well, we shall bring this episode, and then and all I have to think my co hosts, John, thanks for being near tenth avenue freeze out. That's a good one unlikely. But. Guy english. Always a pleasure was a leader. I don't know what's happening anymore. There's been seeing okay. Okay. And dancing in the dark Scott, my name. Thank you, all for reading along with us. I hope you enjoyed this episode. And if you listen to the discussion by endgame hope you enjoy the two and if not. Yeah. Sorry. Whatever. Will be back this week, this fourteen million ways. This could have gone better. You're still, you're still biff to. Thank you all for reading along with us, and we will see you next week.

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Modernizing Angular Apps with Jennifer Wadella

.NET Rocks!

54:20 min | 1 year ago

Modernizing Angular Apps with Jennifer Wadella

"A day with me online rebuilding this APP from scratch dates are this Monday November fourth Monday November twenty fifth and Monday December sixteenth cost is only three twenty five pay rock heads Carl here you know spent the last month and a half researching serve side Blazer and building out a reference APP with just about every bell and whistle I could find so spend can't wait to show you everything I've learned he knows but back in September on September sixteenth and article came out and computerworld Microsoft gives enterprises another nine wants to get off exchange server twenty ten yeah isn't that interesting you know that they will extend welcome back to dot net rocks this is Carl Franklin and this is Richard Campbell and I applaud you for that hey let's play the crazy music I got something for you my friend okay. I don't know what you're planning to do tonight Halloween but if all in we're recording this way back in September on the eighteenth all they're running I'm still moving workloads off them they're not about to die but it's like normally around now so I mean I think about those machines and twenty thirteen I did a full timber but if everything goes right I might actually be able to do the floating head of death this year somewhere Oh haven't done that in years yeah Kelly's mom has still operating it's just becoming the lower priority I have I have I we refused to replace my virtual machine servers yeah so you sit in the garage and try and stay warm and that's come and go and and you chat it's it's Nice it's it's pleasant we are my my house for November Twenty Fifth Go to blazers eleven twenty five dot APP dot com and for December class go to Blazer Twelve Sixteen Dot Phoenix Dot Com all right buddy and this old news by now but I don't know if anybody notices or any are of high performance VM host is just no need on. I'm not doing that anymore turns up for almost nobody's doing that anymore you're gonNA have a lot of closet space my friend I I happen to have smoke two dozen racks ribs and we had a good time yeah when most people smoke a party it's not ribs yeah well that's what you do so you smoke it outside dry agent inside actually turn the temperature up in the closet in general it's another thing the script interrupt and User Management Using Visual Studio Twenty and nineteen community edition Dot Net court three to sign up for Monday go to blazer DOT APP v Necks Dot Com migration dates I you got to wonder what was the customer which customer said yet no you're you're not gonna you're not GonNa Stop Right house in the neighborhood with lots of kids and and a glass door and it's a glass door that's the key thing last door so I might be doing that we are neighborhood and I'm not GonNa Okay I'm GonNa move the workloads to the cloud and and maybe switch over to like sinology box or something like that but buying a pair is an and my neighbors lies we're responsible for the end of summer parties we did our party right after the weekend after Labor Day now and it rained so we were intense but we are still out there and fan refresh and spinning harbor fresh new hard drives and things like twenty sixteen uh-huh and so two thousand nineteen time rb thinking probably I should be replacing these machines got my friend what are you got who's talking to US I know we're talking about angular today specifically older angular APPs too so I grabbed a comment show thirteen ninety one about their thought process I think had impact on Jamie Yep at first with angular one I badly criticized both the product and the team when is just tighten it and and so this Halloween parties to go to all the neighbors go so yeah I just grab a bottle of wine in wandered down to the neighbors and sometimes react but listening to how angular has been transformed in an opinionated framework has been is opening their conversation with Jules really talking was very much a change in philosophy were angular to became was a much more opinionated opinionated less configuring yeah and that's what the other thing we did this was a December show yeah but for the content in the show I honestly ruled out angular from my tool set I'm currently using view Jay I don't know do you still run it I still have a twenty sixteen instance okay been moving stuff over officers sixty five for a while but yeah my my gene back in December two thousand sixteen when we talked to one jewels crummer about angular time Jules was the head of angular developer relations and the two came out and not offering a clear option upgrade to me that was even more devastating but through the show beginning beginning to see angular with other is there's nothing more rewarding than to see the amy almo- really jumped into Middle East comments from three years ago but he says definitely one of the best episodes of the year now offer reeling that winner of the shopping spree because that's that sort of happening now is we don't make the room cold we just keep it it sort of arm shirt temperatures yeah that's what I do too there's no shelter the machines need to be really pleases me because I think that was our intent with that show was to convey the fact that they did not casually go into angular to that it was a torment and apparently now she's back in angular right I think she's like head of angular now so I'll have to look back with her that was a really fun discussion because I in twenty but the world's going down like just you can't justify all this gear anymore nope it's it's time Yup that's so I'm pretty sure that would be overkill for twitter well plus twenty ten like there's been sixty five for crying out loud right right well anyway let's bring back Jennifer Wedel she's been writing code since before she realized it was a credible for them as well right and we did talk about the upgrade options but they were limited it was not an easy thing to do and of course many your path she's currently working as the lead angular consultant at Beethoven and loves building performed web applications and speaking at technical com references end brewing Kombucha Jennifer is an active member of the Kansas City Tech community in the founder of Kansas City women technology kick it or no discussion for no swift call me Kelly Dick I mean but anyway it's an organization aimed at growing the number of women in technology careers in Kansas City she is the pub Con Sydney Twenty eighteen champion welcome back jen also Jennifer don't make me break you're welcome back Jennifer my wife my wife is her name is Kelly I'm at Carl Franklin send us a tweet hey I wonder if twitter uses exchange two thousand ten I'm thinking no a silicon prairie champion award nominee rising trend setter stemming award winner and is apparently Missouri's coolest woman according to pure while humility and the commitment of a team embodied in a product and this is precisely what I got from the show to hear that the angular team really cares what happened is as a developer has been the reason enough a lot of clubs you know back in the day if you go back that far back when I first built that thing like I have a eighty Iraq space right because we I mean we're talking specifically about the issues between angular wanted angular to right and that was that big schism Yep you know we had lots of people are upset about it in a year or two ago we had our at Devon recession and stuff we worked with a few times she's really great and she got promoted you into out of the Angula team entirely experiencing and spending a lot of time at conferences you just you don't realize how many people are still supporting legacy technology and nobody is really creepy evaluated in well done to jewels on the whole team and thank you guys for a great show Yeah Awesome Nice I really I really further versions along with this this sort of getting too opinionated software mindset wits come up in our conversation a few times now sure think it's it's it's the yeah you know living the life so you've been I have been migrating older angular APPs that the thing that we're going to talk about have you been doing lately Oh my gosh doing a lot of conferencing doing a watch of and when people call our cal it drives her absolutely crazy and so Richard for a while there was calling her cal just to push her buttons so one day she said we had a bunch of machines the fact that I saw it down to two beefy for you servers already opened up a lot of rack space they WANNA dry age some meat I got a closet in content for them anymore they've been kind of like left in the in the dust and so I'm kind of like okay what can I do to make their jobs easier and well as young Java script developers have a little bit of a a different timeline view so okay yeah Fox dot com on the social media's because we publish every show to facebook and if you comment there and read on the show was edgy copy music oh by right and definitely follow us on twitter he's at rich Campbell up to like one point five one point eight and then everything either to plus is just referred to as angular now which is not helpful for when you're trying to Google for like a dealer if keep up with modern best practices when they are not miss situation where businesses go to allow them to do like a massive upgrade a massive rewrite like when things can they do today we should be going these days yep absolutely Jamie thank you so much your comedy copies Jacoby is on its way to you and if you'd like a copy co by right I comment on the website at Don nine I think it's been two years yeah yeah I've been up to a lot of stuff no no it's a year it was it was published in January twenty eighteen the issues that you have to deal with when you're trying to bring an old angular app into the into the twenty first century well out here is the thing we're GonNa talk about here in it's just moving into a consulting role in getting exposed to a lot of different problems that people are all areas of all I'm sorry I'm just getting my head around angular as legacy Kanji I write five was modern right since maybe like six in not even that it was that big of a scale but it really hasn't been a concern to save enrolling at new versions mostly just avenue render engine I e that's offering a lot of interesting features which is all anybody talks about is the new shiny stuff which is why I've been Mike on this kick lately about aren't as familiar with the the modern technology needs and so you say you want to rewrite the application and they're like why did I you know why do we spend all this money to rewrite it toys play with just nuke so it's just adding to capability rather than actually replacing capability yeah the one thing they are working on right now is there company that has acquired old technology there's just not a good enough business reason a change in so how can they not only like continue ability this comes out we might have nine right yeah I know it's they push out quite a bit but there haven't been any really destructive breaking changes right after ABC London you know where you are all right that's great that's now that we know who you are and what to call you and what you've been doing now we don't know what you've been doing stop calling your Cap Kelly I ever after may major point just fine yeah okay Jennifer what you've been up to since the last time we talked which was when when was that that was that a NBC or something any out it hasn't been two years house at the time the first place in a lot of people are kind of in this physician where they are supporting some sort of legacy or maybe they are application in a way that makes sense for a Sunday upgrade future but also like what we care about his job script developers a lot is updating your skill set Taylor developments took a job with a consulting company in December let's cut out my first time for rain in the consulting world a legacy javascript code base so that's kind of my focus lately D- is it a complete rewrite if you're an angular to is there a certain making sure that our skills our current relevant be hard when maintaining a legacy code base so how do you stay happy wanting to be modern developer when you are stuck support level of angular where it is a complete rewrite and then it switches over to well maybe we could just modernize it so everything seven or eight now eight eight Hollyman they faithful if definitely accelerated since two I mean to is three years ago well by the time Oh creating content for for those left behind yeah right yeah that's fair in in smart so what is what what is what are the main oh the the biggest thing is if you want to modern angular it's going to be a complete rewrite and so you've got TA companies who angular to afterwards there've been it's pretty consistent and so there are some really great energy upgrade tools that you can use that will handle the issues Florio so anything after that version results so you really like to plus and then whatever you need to know but the team would prefer that we refer to it as angular gs and angular what we have delivered unto US unto plebs his style guide for J. Development in the world was new and shiny after that and so the style guide really tends to like modern yards to be the safest fat for that right so I'm curious what's the biggest problem with angular one that doesn't allow you to do there's not a complete rewrite that's cool yeah wasn't there some tools for going from one ax to to to to that migration assistance that kind of thing because you weren't necessarily forced to modulate already in the way you're writing so you could very quickly end up with some Spaghetti Code that so if you even if you were to like clone the repo that they have like that teaches you how to how to build in two thousand thirteen edition in Two Thousand Sixteen Edition Twenty nine hundred which by the way I have not migrated twenty nineteen and I want it I had the cycles even consider doing that go off Gordon Assistant but pretty really says is I'm going to analyze coding give you some strategies suspect one of those strategies rewrite yeah yeah of opinion was causing huge problems they went to a more opinionated mindset going forward well and it also really depends on the audience you're trying to serve and so one of the great things that happened in the jazz community is like what it was the wild wild west for I don't know like maybe a year hill and then John Papa or might be but the what the huge issues is in this is what I explored some of the content I'm creating a vastly depends on the way you built your angular J. Asset it together a great way to start writing English asked applications in it's really funny because if you compare the way you are writing your opponents in your in your modules falling ah kind of place that you could use some other tools I think that's where the bulk of the work will I I'll cooling to this but in a project called the Oh guide very much is reflected in current development in so once you start migrating to that mindset that way of organizing files and Organiz your code base even if there wasn't upgrade tool it wouldn't be to a manageable way to even poor over and so a big part is ticking your existing code base in getting it to yep still getting the giggles every time you say modern angular yeah you're right after angular too do what you would consider to be a modern APP you know modernized micro services and all that started so strongly people win a lot of different directions with it and astor Google saw that I think this is what we talked about that show it tools right and they realize that the last react where they have much more granular control can focus let's warm performance companies are looking for a more holistic solution that's making those choices for them which is why angular say legacy you are talking angular one yes in like the technical terminology preferred by the team is angular says the original like eight years want to use some sort of CSS compile or or heaven forbid you want to start writing your files type scripting we're GONNA need to compile those into something that can be read by the browser that ally dependencies there I know I'm like oh I have to type or I have to click on things let let blasphemy as this archaic is like you see a lot of angular in enterprise applications and these are probably being maintained by developers who have not been writing javascript for last ten years and are going to opt for something like the old your first website that hasn't really been modernized doll so let's say you want to have some sort of a build tool because maybe so it's just there's so much work that you have to do out of the gate to get it setup like that which is pales in comparison to modern Oscar file ever into html page but figuring out how to implement web pack to compile and serve those files and also set up a testing instance With Karma this is this yeah seriously I I have to say I I'm spoiled now by Blazer that you're done it becomes much more feasible to monitor right yeah and again is this this is a side effect of angular one because it was resisted opinion developer is there such a wide variety of tooling and like if you're on an older code base you might have never touched you know sex set angular few times and I don't know the as a Java scrip- program you're probably used to like new language syntax all the time but it just didn't make sense for me in the past like two months you know you're like why would I do anything except laser seriously I'm hard pressed to find a reason not to use it about his the ball of mud approach to javascript versus this you know putting in place separation of concerns in structure around the various bits of money yet tasks them so a big part of that was courting aren't even remember we were using a build process at all I think we might have literally just that slapping every and a lot of times they're just wrapping standard html controls so you can always go back to their yeah but anyway I looked I'm learning javascript frameworks for like the last six seven eight years this this is what I do like there will be a new one on Monday it will be way better than reactive so anything like that so there's just a lot of a lot of work you have to do to the ground up to even get to the point of looking like what it feels like to to develop a modern out yeah it's it went says move too fast but the the other side is like we are getting a feels like we're getting more organized yeah just stuff like that man yeah and that's that's such that's such the weird thing about like being Jarvis the job code you need to live with an footman you get a little seal I depend too if you're like me and I have to physically like create a file it's dislike it can be really frustrating because you can be a great programmer but like I my last job search a lot of places wouldn't hire me because I didn't have react production experience like guys mhm am I crazy that this does make more sense that you're is angel or maintain -able Oh yeah for sure find security vulnerabilities to fix them just not adding new features which one would argue enterprise have don't want anyway right like it's like now the APP works it works so modernizing let's define that I mean it goes beyond build tools and devops but I mean a lot of along everybody is on the reactive programming kick well it felt like angular reached a point maturity where it became tools that enterprise once in a while a third party controller. Whatever doesn't do what I wanted to do right but usually there's three or four different companies choose from before or even like got a type script or compiled languages in the second that you go out on the job search in people talk to you because you haven't used these things in production isn't inherently built in I remember like back when I was dealing with Aniela J. 's APPs it was I think assertive I was working at I had taken on the task of the IT works I don't want to change it yeah there's this other area where innovations going on it's just a question of is this a place where the enterprise data actually wants to live or not just modern tools and techniques fall into that category Yep so maybe we'll go over some of those yes we can break it down into a couple sections website it talks about long-term support they recognize that there are enterprise apps out there depending on this library and they're not going to let it go and they're and they're going to continue the things like the Cli they did break out into separate tooling around all these things like this is what we are what we really out that will help us write better code one of those being type script which she no allows us to write or strictly Type Java script and catch a lot of errors images freaking out ways to serve assets that you know don't don't deal with caching issues in so a big part of that learning and understanding and being able to so that's fine job requirements ten years react expressing been there that long but okay we'll go with it you thought you're talking about the Java script ecosystem as a whole which is like you know build it up portadown again because something's better we'll see Taylor Rehab the Cli that you know within a couple of key strokes you have an entire new module that's got number thing like that you never think about compiling or dealing with web pack loaders architects we're going to start recommending in my world at least that means you're looking at a piece of software that's going to be in use for at least ten years absolutely when I go poke around the Angular Jeff it progressive Web APPs for people who don't have as great of Internet connection all sorts considerations there and then we also have a lot of you know tools that are coming really really nice but that's a huge part of modern APPS is because you know web standards are changing were needing to make sure that we're able to serve content that we might not normally hit until run time and so there's work that you have to do to J s APP to even be able to the especially with running lighthouse performance tasks and everything like that and I feel like angular take some hits sometimes because people like to argue about performance to improve the performance of your applications often having that bill to tool knowledge to make sure that you're taking your code and serving it in the best way you can in the browser versus if you're using a huge fan of gaps be which is a static site generator built on reacted has just all this performance optimization built into it you almost don't even have to think about it five in one day we'll read a complete server side blazer PWA APP with the F. Three API controllers components signal are asp- peanut core identity good enough for the angular team should be good enough for everyone right yeah yeah and it's really funny 'cause like you You you talk to irs and you've got some of them like me who are like compiler is just yelling at me I don't like this new building my workflow and then like you see the change starts to happen where they're like oh you know I I never thought the command line that's that's a lot of key strokes that I don't WanNa make its own little see so the first one that I feel like front end developers probably focused on Moore build tools because they largely in performance optimization so we are you know thinking about things like making sure that we're finding our code stripping out comments on having code maps that we can refer to for debugging figuring out better ways to render for Roy let what are you talking about like Modern Essex letting concepts that that's throwing you you know raised in the wild world of Java script where we're like just like throw in bars and that can be a string and that could be a number and then it's not and you know all sorts of drought at that before like Ooh let's see what this hyler areas telling you I didn't even know about this feature in lake slowly come to rely on it and it's it's this is interesting Tom Right at in in type scraps and take advantage of all those features assets another big area I'm absolutely agreeing with you that that's sort of the role type scripted inspire me because when it comes out on Monday yeah no no it's because you don't have ten years experience yeah right but that's we're just like screw you don't tell me what to do somebody like that who does not come from like a struggling type background and the types of they're like herbal well I think anybody who is hunted for a type change in code somewhere right just transition that I myself have made read like type script is so oppressive announ like a need type scripting protect this world the front yeah it went over well and it's always fun 'cause like you you programmers are pretty smart people but this is expecting I say at compile time because what the heck does that mean but early on in the process three of dot net talk and we'll both be hosting the closing session get a discount when you register with the Code Dot any T. R. K. S. go to Devon dot dot net rockstar Randall. Dan Wat Lean John Papa Markus egger Michelle Aruba Samante and more I'll be doing a deep dive session on server side Blazer and Richard will be doing his his postcards or November twenty second speakers you've heard on dot net rocks include Scott Guthrie Scott Hunter Scott Hanson Kathleen Dollar Jeff Fritz Kim trip Paul Wjr come join richer to me a Dev intersection November eighteen th through the twenty first at the MGM Grand in Las Vegas Pre con workshops on November seventeenth eighteenth us you catch these issues yeah in like absolutely like yeah having it happened during the compiler where like you had that instant notification of hey yeah so we made a big Pie in the big Pan I got wiped while I was making a Veggie Pie in a smaller Pan and by the time the veggie dot com right now to claim your discount Amer back it's done Iraq's I'm Richard Campbell that's Karl frankly talking to our friend Jennifer would della my pie like this sucks this is not what I wanted to be doing with my day yeah well and then for me personally like again coming from just Java script I am obsessed with interfaces what that function is supposed to return a much it's just it's delightful it's set a little just let you know hey that's not what this interface you done something wrong us pretty pretty spectacular so yeah into it's it's pretty powerful stuff and I'm going to interrupt for one moment for this very important message in at all and when you walk into a type script environment and you're already creating interfaces that are describing a the printers for function you might need but not only that like got twenty eight thirty inches it's it's absurd it was a beast and we made we in one night we feel that thing twice what do we do we serve like forty something people pal we we've made much together and it's not a euphemism it was player and you get a nice so Korat on the bottom there does does the angular two plus versions hold any grip over my angular one x APP compared to say of you approach you're eating international food hits I mean it's rice with meat but it's rice yes I wanted use some sort of angular service got HIV requests and there's no documentation I'm trying to figure out like what Prams I'm supposed to pass like what's going on trying to do bug that of course the API isn't it's like they're my favorite thing just from like an automatic code documentation because the number of times that I've wondered Kobe's any no I'm trying to into you know fast-moving iteration they've written single page applications throw in Java script for like the last decade I think a more back into this let me throw another curve ball at this is one of the ways to modernize angular apt to move away from angular like you're talking about a rewrite anyway it really wants them we're having ways optimized performance and deal with code and then but at the end of the day I think it really depends on your team if you've got a tool like reactor view would probably more appropriate because they don't need as much of that that structure the angular offers and you sort of casually dropped angular ivy there eh their food pellets are less than diverse sometimes so having the like introduced people to apply is just a delightful delightful experience it was ready to big pen was clean and I just loaded up again made it again yep although I got really confused because one of my friends told me she only got the we did we got a couple of good crispy ones well a she brought out the biggest pan I've ever seen in my life like okay was that a three inch pan you got Jennifer I mean Paiva and I was like wait I thought you got into the first round and she's like no by the time I got there it become just a veggie PA swipe told the protein out of triplets nations. I think that's another piece to the modernisation puzzle is so you've got a SPA and now you're using reactive extensions to do what yeah I like based on what the team had been saying for a while I'm surprised that it's like 'cause you could opt into it the Beta I don't know a couple people use this will so it's getting towards lower like reactive or more imperative the new versions of angular yeah so super interesting in the one thing to completely like just divert back to the original thing is we haven't really I think they do especially with ib because now we're getting more tree shaking ability so if we're lazy loading different parts of our application that might not be necessary in two years declared it can lead to a lot of code be very hard to read and so when you take a more reactive approach where you're trying to derive state of business logic that we might be doing on client side until you've got all these different sources of information and so when you've got events firing in in your programming I really quite knew what is ivy so yeah I is the new render engine that is kind of taking a different approach to more imperative approach to I'm worried about all these things and you can see that right up front exactly and I feel like once you've like Gone Oh God and it's a huge like mental shift that you know if people feel like they don't like they can't use the tools in their current environment they might Taylor chance developers feeling limited by the tool sets to understand that they can actually use libraries and start to use reactive for ramming like as a mental model inside their own coming mom because one of the problems with you know Java script is were largely concerned with interactions from a user and then you know handling some sort you're sitting on a static page and you want to refresh things you ended up writing a lot of state logic yourself polling in checking for stuff and reactives better at organizing this stuff over the curb is a program of understanding this approach that the code is really much more readable you have very much better idea of what's going on talked about this this concept of reactive programming yet which is really I think take taken off from anger largely being based on our xjs again just interesting to think in terms of of this is not changing your code per se but it's giving you a new rendering pipeline so you're gonNA no more you the way assets are compiled in rendered and will offer some additional features I haven't had a whole lot of time to play around with it but there are a lot of great talks people are putting out the crx gs used across the reacts as well in this whole new programming paradigms essentially which is another important thing to think about couple months ago Mike Mike Tomlin is off but I didn't expect it to drop as quickly as it did so they've been hauling to to get that out to US north powerful stuff about it almost seems type scripting some respect that you just learn more active quote unquote compile time giggling about that if you're out running in out all the features it's not available to Angular J. Developers which is sad good its angular eight like it's right up there is the new stuff they're going to be less like weird side effects can happen from from different things so that that's another big of modernizing is not just using tools tim burners lease web anymore like the the old post and get mindset just pushing a former getting it back that's not what we're talking about here and just shoot like tune out and not be open to exploring this new concept not realizing that they could really take advantage of it just because it is you know comes out of the box you know javascript applications and frameworks are changing so rapidly you know how can we start to build components that are more framework agnostic per se or drive data from like all these different input points it could be a lot easier to read into bug on and manage stateful applications better so to go just as ideally we've been talking for years about how twitchy javascript had gotten and we were talking about the tribes of libraries that worked together in the ones that you know they did not alert yeah and so in reactive you're doing more of this declaring listeners and things like that like I'm watching for this and I'm watching for this and if this happens do that like it's like you said else who's using a different framework but the cool thing is a lot of people are getting more into the web components API inserting to think about okay. We'll that's what I want now that's a modern looks like well for now until something more modern comes out this week right is it really that twitchy anymore to es two thousand seventeen yeah and that's just not feasible crazy yeah so everybody is on the the Web Components Bandwagon right I'm way more interactive model and it takes some time to really say how am I going to organize this I I appreciate are ex is running around for years mud and not your javascript the other guys got a bunch of people who are used to being in you know larger corporate environments Kobe's not making light of its citizens or specific got some season Java scrip- professionals who are right yeah and I think also getting maybe a little bit more respectful 'cause you know everybody loves to talk about their framework and talk about how so much better in shame every how do you maintain that without going into learning curve every time of having to learn a new tire new framework right or demanding that every one of these different bits and pieces get upgraded all work together there was sort of clusters around differences the tools it does seem in some respects to calm down right it gets kind of angular react in view stacks dealer apathy rewrite at that can be another really powerful way to mitigate future tacked up this feels like more sustainable by to make that this is just sort of be a staple tool for how you build a spa that's really an issue thing to think about up of thinking about overall separations in collections of of support. Yeah I think it's like a little bit more of a holistic approach to web development and so that's actually a really cool solution for Angular J. 's developers as well is okay so the problem is you know that you might be able to upgrade your APP Sunday in that can be used across wolf a scenario because you're seeing companies that just have collections of of APPs in whatever was Java scripts flavor of the week in so yeah you could easily intimidate someone away from being a web developer when you start show him this level of abstraction yeah and it's like there's so many people like for my day who you totally your ball of might is beautiful some special sticking twiggy kind of way duct tape and bailing wire kind yup yup maybe some dog hair actually but we're still dog hair cat hair yeah but we have we have been but this is more thorough I mean I've got I've got the link to the web components here that I'll I'll throw on the website but wow it's just the the scope like we're not just dancing around with different balls that were trying to me stuff it will last two are you calling my jobless balls changing the way we think about programming and using other tools available to allow us to enact that styles coated like this on your resume but having no comprehension of like even you know a web page in what the dumb is and like what you're actually doing with these these web components yeah maybe the funny thing is I don't know that you'd WanNa start here like you need to build some stuff had some before we really want to sit and look at web components go yeah yeah I want me some of that yeah right yeah which is also like y'all know that I do a lot with with teaching people still have to be supporting it at being new features but how do you do that in a way that makes like where you're not just adding to the technical debts were that upgrade some day so you can start like ease into it does not exist anymore so I mean we and we talked about this in traditional development models and client site development and so forth worth we hit a peak of complexity let code especially women had a code and it's so interesting to come in and try and write Java script today and use a modern framework that you know critters demand you have still don't do it but the great thing about the angular ecosystem is it's huge right like it would take so long to be an expert on like every won't go in and figure out how to implement fronton testing in the first place which included like getting web pack compiling the files in the way getting Karma setup and everything like that little little piece of that ecosystem but the great thing about unit testing is forces you to understand how working under the Hood said truly implement your unit has crime rate doing this in the in the web development world for a while it was NBC 'em Vm. That we're sort of the first hair separate some concerns and I I I'm just trying to figure out where we are in this arc for for Javascript essentially is are we at a peak of complexity are we actually starting to pull back so the great thing about modern angular is built in and it just works because to project energy projects I was so it's Kinda one of those things that forces you to really take a good look at understanding like you're familiar with zones in angular on chasing its tail being completely anaerobic and I feel like we've matured into like a little bit like maybe two to three year old golden retriever now we're still kind of chaotic but we have a little bit more of understanding it was drama in like even then like angular jazz at the time provided a really good way to test that they're still simplify I don't know I feel like again like the javascript community is so young it's almost like you know little golden retriever puppy that's been like running no we could do a whole nother podcasts on that because it's a very long story but it they rely heavily on it for changes that yes it's frustrating trying to cram all that history in the UAE in Milan on web engineer like what is happening what am I doing with my life so orb much near as much mayors right yet but he does it feels like so much like labor intensive work to get to the point of understanding how to write the tasks that it's just it was a lot of work and I feel like a lot of people take approach of building like web component focus stuff using angular elements to Bill do features that will work both in your English. As at but in a new vindication here what about testing harnesses and again we talk about sustainability a software what do we do you ever purchase you like Oh God I know Justin James has been doing some good Cyprus workshops yeah I've heard James Doing talks intersection on Cyprus action in so if you were trying to emulate like unit tests new I with different pieces of information by collecting for user it we're not quite ah I haven't yet seen much deviation outside of Karma inhaler community although what's the new thing everybody is talking about relate cited that I emiko change detection in your task unit has the things that you watch so yeah anyway Ayler huge huge ecosystem but the great thing about unit tests and how the world works and how we should function it yeah you're not actively try the idea that you would run around until you throw up doesn't happen there as much thank eulogists launch the Karma Milka I'd never remember like the Syntax language they're all pretty much the same to keep up with the names much understanding any the community and I still can't keep track of like all the tools going on ever like yeah it's it's insane it ends up servicing is like I keep hearing about this so I guess I'm going to have to do that and I feel like I'm picking sessions very much the same way at points although the other ingrate test harnesses for websites is not a trivial thing to do oh so the working on it I think I'm giving it intersections is about modernising allergy is just another way to do testing for web right it's another it's another good tool approach to it I'm just trying like we we put some much files together. We slaps in Java script on there were dumped them on files Ila we call it a day like that mental contested still like within a unit test that you're you're trying to test like these little functions that might be happening you have to have an understanding of that changed in action to be able to we haven't done a show around Cyprus we've done show around MOCHA and a few of the other testing framework it is interesting to think in terms of we're still feeling our way for is they force you to get in and learn about things that you might take for granted or not realize that are happening and you referred to Karma as the test runner for Apps in like I think at least twice presentation but definitely one of my last slides is do not implement a single technique I've ascribed unless you go to your team the what what is that what Cyprus I don't even know if I can give you a teal Dr. Because I've been swamped with so many other things that I haven't been able to even attend a single workshop for it what do you think like making a conversation about it not not you know the one I've got a new religion yeah I think I say that like what I want you to take out of the INSI- angry mom warning and domain mom angry you would like her which angry yeah awesome cool things that you might get excited about doing do not do them without express consent and buy in from your team the other people who will be helping you maintain this code but the good thing is keep hearing about the same thing enough where you're like okay I should probably go in

Angular J Richard Campbell Carl Franklin Justin James Cyprus Microsoft Kelly Milan blazers UAE Kobe engineer Ila