4 Episode results for "Hunter Williams"
Talkin' The Star: Will the run game improve in 2020?
"What's up, guys? This is the Star podcast. I'm your host Connor Livesey cure of my co host today. Coal Patterson Dalton is not with this again this week. We're going to have to have to really get get in on him because he is just killing us right now, but A. Charleston Dallas Cowboys football. You guys for a little bit tonight today I should say and we are excited to talk about the Dallas. Cowboys running game. We talk so much about the passing game so much about the defense so much about the draft that we have left the running game in the dust, and we want to bring that up a little bit, but before we get started Cole how you doing tonight. Pretty well over carrying loaded again without dawn. Bail, he said. GonNa be addressed running game since we focus so much on the passing attack I mean there's a Lotta talent. All over the offense in is going to be nice to see really who can step up in a how gang could even better undermine McCarthy. Yeah I actually wrote a piece earlier in the week on Blake. Bell, the tight end they signed and free agency. That's most recently played Kansas, city He's a guy that's more known for his blocking abilities receiving abilities. I think that's something and his team. His lack for a while really since James. Hanna left team in two thousand seventeen. You know they had some success with Jeff Swim. Swim state injured so much that it was still not consistent So you know this is the first first year. My opinion, a long time that they kinda have a true blocking. Tight on the roster, a lot of people thought the Jason Witten was that guy but Jason witten was a bad, not not not good, but it was a bad blocker. Last few years in Dallas. Blake Jar wins not known for his blocking abilities. He's journals a lot to Dalton. SCHOLTZ really hasn't developed into the blocker that we thought he could be. In that kind of where Blake, Bell Steps in. What's your? What's your thoughts on Blake Bell, and what do you think he can kind of bring to the offense as a run blocker, and possibly even a receiver You know we're. We're going to spend more time talking about. The running game, but also in order to be successful at twelve personnel, which were where we think we might see a lot of Blake Bill. You do have to throw the ball out of that package as well and you have to have a receiving threat out of that packages well with that tight end to. Deny just talking about bill GonNa be becoming be a run blocker for the Dallas Cowboys, and they haven't had in a couple of seasons of within aging with. Raw and Rod by Jarl. He's more known for being able to be woven in the passing game. As far as blatant belly's not gonNA, as he said he's not going to be a factor mustard. All is a receiver. This looking at his stats. He had a were sanctions last year Kansas City So I mean he wasn't really much of a factor at all rinker All their weapons and office facilities. He's going to be more known as a run. Blocker is GONNA be able to create a her. Offensive Line we've talked about eleven personnel, and all of that how they're only getting to go warren, and maybe some tain personnel that Kinda stowe. But when the cow was, do have the they do have a good offense align for the most part, obviously question marks, so it makes sense to be able to run. The football and bill could be a big part of that so I do think that as you mentioned with spinning cope with seasons since they had a guy that they can rely on the tight end position. To be another blocker so I do think bill can get immediate impact. In that regard might not be might not show stash. Eat. It might not be as flashy is blamed Jarmin's touchdowns by news important piece to the success and his team. Yeah and I'm really interested to see how much twelve personnel we see from his offense at twenty twenty. Because you know it's, it's a package personnel package that hasn't been used as much around the league. It used to be with the League turning into. Primary Passing League But something of the have always used, and maybe that's a Jason Garrett. Maybe that was A. We don't know because he used it. They didn't use it quite as much as they normally did last year. So interesting see with more Mike McCarthy is twelve personnel something. We're GONNA. See more of less of the same amount and I. think that could be a. you know a big of a big. Sign of sign of the Times. I guess you could say with with how they can use that grouping because for years, it was a ton of twelve personality thirteen personnel. He's all three tight. End Sets a lot of time in Dallas here. But like I said I, mean you you. You got to be able to throw the ball out of that twelve personnel package as well because if you just come out and twelve and you, you don't find success during the football. You're kind of showing your hand early in allow insurances to. Know that that runs, come in so. Interesting. Side I mean gave you is gearing. Bill can be a reliable meow season. I'm going to be like by Jar. Anybody thank. He can be giving keep defenses honest with his receiving ability. Because like you said you can't just show your hand before the snap. Well I think that thing that they'll be able to do with him is I don't think you'll see a you know. He's NOT GOING TO BE A. A great runner! He doesn't have great athleticism, but I mean I think he's going to be good enough to get the do the three or four yard hitch routes. You know maybe even good incorporated into some of the screen game just some of that short passing game. I think you'll be good enough at to where you know, it's not going to be a complete failure. Again you know looking at like. Jason Witten didn't run a of routes last year. A lot of his stuff was short as sticks. You know quick forty five yard routes, and in the ball got through him, and he fell down. So you know I think that you could see a lot of that with Blake Bell and then you have blinked Darwin. Moore's your flex outside in. Maybe plan even more that big slot what we've seen Mike. McCarthy do at some of his tight ends. When he was in Green Bay. So you know it's GonNa. Be All about kind of seeing what McCarthy wants to does. He want to even use twelve personnel lot? We've seen it. In years past with Richard, Rogers was always kind of that number two tied in. Going back a few years later than that. They always had two guys that they could move in and out in those twelve personnel packages, but he's also a guy that did us eleven. Personnel Tonto, so it might be even something that were not going to see a ton of two tight end sets, but while. We're staying on the topic of the tight ends on the running game design that don't. SCHOLTZ has any chance of really maybe even overtaking Blake Bell and the the tight end to race. As good question, I mean I know. There are a lot of campus. Fans are expecting more adults when he was drafted. Crack the road tation consistently at all. Has To, do with Jason taking a lot of snaps in the emergence of by jar win so. Obviously, has Stanford, he was he was largely involved dinner on offense and. David Shaw. He really likes US tied, and so he is involved in that regard. beverly hasn't really. Really changed. The. Way Like you said that many people die would So I don't know. I do think they signed the bill for a reason or no, that's just because of. Shaw turnovers says hey, we don't like how developing as a blocker or vicious because we need a body. For Cam we weren't another. We wanted some competition behind by Darwin. Do think it'd be interesting to see because I knew. I mean they spent a fourth round pace. There were some often, but there was some optimism surrounding him, but it is a new regime is A. Killer more. Ness Meyerson building, so he maybe he might have a little bit longer released in than with typically a new coaching staff i. do think Bilas the upper. What are your thoughts that? I kind of agree with you, but I wish that they would give Dolton Scholtz and opportunity. Because I feel like hasn't gotten opportunity we we've seen them do. Is a receiver at times, but it's just been such a small sample size that it hasn't been enough to really form an opinion on so i. think don't show. Skip play house big on him in the draft that he showed signs of developing as a blocker. Is the League is. The year went on last year. Again he receive a ton of opportunity, so it's hard to really develop any kind of chemistry as a block or or receiver when you're not getting on the field, but so much so I would really like to see that in camp him get opportunities to showcase. His receiving skills showcases blocking abilities, and then maybe even give him a shot at You know that second tight end spot because he is a little bit more athletic And I think he can do more as a receiver than what bell has shown throughout his career. But it probably. It's it's. It's not a big difference. Either way bells, probably a little bit more consistent blocker, and I think Scholtz is a little bit more versatile, so I'm interested to see kind of what they do in camp with those two guys see who gets the more opportunities that might tell us who's got a head start at that position for the second tight end spot, but we're going to take a break. Come back, and we want to talk a little bit about the offense. Align kind of what we think that group's going to jolt together like. In the running game, and maybe even mentioned a little bit about Zeke. Elliott Antoni Pollard. will be right back after our break. We are talking the star. An were back on the talk in the Star podcast I'm your host Connor Elisa here with my co host tonight. Coal Patterson go Hindus favorite. Follow us on twitter at Connor. NFL draft in Koh, L. Patterson Dot Miller's not with US tonight, but hopefully he'll be back with us next week I'll. We're talking the cowboys running game today. We're talking about the twelve personnel usage. We're talking about these blocking tight ends, and we want to get into the big guys up NEX before we do so one always give a big shoutout to blogging the boys, espy nation and Vox media forgiving US this platform if If you're listening to US right now. Go ahead and subscribe to the blog and buoyed podcast feed by hitting that subscribe budding button. You're getting a ton of good content on that feed. There's about four to five different PODCASTS that you're going to get access to just hitting subscribe to the blog and a podcast feed. You can follow that on Apple. Music Apple podcast anything you use for ANDROID. You cannot just type in blogging the boys, and that should pop up in hits. That's subscribe button and check it all out. We really appreciate it, but let's get as big guys up front coal. It's GonNa be interesting because this is probably the first time in a few years. That would really don't know for sure what that starting lineups. GonNa look like. Frederick Travis. Frederick is no longer with team as he retired, so we're going to have a new center for the first time in what seems like forever, and there's a possibility that you could even have a new left guard for the first time in a few years with Connor. Williams spot kind of up in the Air I'M GONNA. Ask you first. What do you think happens at that center? Spot you it. It's GONNA come down to connor McGovern Connor Williams and then tyler, British the rookie out of Wisconsin Who Do you think eventually ends up winning that spot in why? Yeah. That is definitely the the position, the offense going to have the most attention. Camera zooms wants to the cowboys area with a practice, not that kind of so. There's GonNa be a lot of attention is on that spy. And as you mentioned, there's really three candidates for that starting position. As of right now and do seem Joe. Loop Joe Louis Probably Enters Cam. Hand. Think, he does entered. This may be in my. Opinion with just a slight edge onto his anything like significant or anything, but I think the. Ham being the replacement story when Reggie except away. I think gives them a little bit of in hand on a McGovern especially, who hasn't really played any? Football year, because of injuries our around big and. I seen I seen. As as lesson, yeah, yeah, you got. Beat yeah I think. I wrote an article on blogging. The boys are early in the weeds. They really projected the rookie clash. It's the way I. See it nothing. grabbed that starting spy in week wine, but I would not be surprised if he's aorta. Grabbed starting spot by the end of the season. And obviously he's Ghandour injuries. He suffered. Setbacks subway's really says which was one of the reasons why his stock fell from a potential, first or second round bake into day, three pig but he hasn't talent mean he was a very important piece Wisconsin offense buying you is. Johnson Taylor's special talented zone ride, but he probably doesn't break all those records without be blocking for him. in that is in and I think that I. Think he is too high a stealing disagree. I know you're more de Drat Guy, so you disagree or know how you feel about that. Remind personal opinion I think. As, higher highest ceiling industry, you guys. Did I. Think are the most viable candidates for the starting position starting center position. BY GOVERNMENT IS A. Car As low bit asleep these. Third Round pain stay. Nobody's really talking about him. As much is because he's. Before last year in need. Nobody's really seen motion intimate all, but he was another guy was a factor in A. Very productive run game in College of Helps, F-, saquon, Barkley, mouth, sanders but. Use a very good run blocker within say he was who's very. He was somebody Calloway's. There is on Donahue's too good of a value to pass open a third round despite some more pressing needs, so I do think he has a chance I do think the. Loonie opens opens train gamp as the number. One Guy I do think he probably We call is a starter by I. Really do think we'd be beating. She's going to if he's not starter anything. He's going to have a pretty big role by this season What's your opinion? I'M GONNA. Go a little bit of different direction as I think I think McGovern has a really good chance to to run the spot I think he coming into year is probably going to be the most talented of the group. I I. Liked via dish I didn't love him coming into the draft. Because of how bad has thousand nine hundred was and he had moved. Eighteen years fantastic. He looked really good. Two thousand, nine hundred was a pretty rough year for him. He struggled with. You've seen. What are you? What are you seeing? 'cause, twenty inches, injuries or A big is different from eighteen twenty nineteen. Struggle with power and quickness in normally you have guys struggled one, and then you know really good at the other but you guys with quickness able to beat him. The snap in the Gospel were over were able to overpower them as well I think the power issue had more to do with the injuries in the quickness issue, but I think that all of it was combined in issue for him He had multiple injuries, so he was battling through some things for sure but she can't. Can't you know I never tried to excuse those those bad years and make that excuse for injury. Because if you're on the field, you got to be able to produce. That's that's the number. One thing going on is not healthy, and you can't play. You shouldn't play and if you are on the field, you got to be able to produce you. You can't you can't. You can't put your team at risk because you're trying to tough it out. And and he did at times two thousand and nineteen. Now, he can bounce back to that. Two thousand eighteen form I'd like to change that answer, but I'm just not confident yet in going there. I, was I was a fan of McGovern last year wasn't quite high. Oil is high on him. As the cowboys, we're in the third round I. think that he has a lot of talent I think he's got senator that K can block really well in the move, which is something that I think we might see from Mike McCarthy this year. really. Really getting the the running game may be moving a little bit more side to side instead of right off that you know right the gut we saw. We see so much inside zone inside power stuff from from the cowboys in years past I think you might see a little bit more creativity getting some of that outside outside zone, running game going. Zone blocking schemes create space in the second level. and I think that that's something government can do. And I think honestly another thing that we haven't talked a lot about. Is it if the if Mike McCarthy wants to use? That move blocking scheme zone, blocking scheme for the offense align connor. Williams athleticism could play really well from the center spot as well, and that's something we've seen them. Talk about even try to do in training camp some last year with connor Connor Williams plan some at that center spot, and if they want an athletic center that can block on the move they can. They can get out and space and do some damage like in Connor Williams's the name. We need to pay attention to too but. In order for that to happen? There has to be somebody that they trust at left guard and You Know Joe. loonies guy that can play left guard tyler. Guy To play left. Guard Connor. McGovern's even a guy that can play lifeguard, so they have plenty of options at left guard, and that center spot. It's just going to be. It's going to be a really interesting training camp because I think that's probably your. Your most interesting battle is to see who can overtake the left guard spot, and who can overtake that starting center spot, and that's going to be one of the biggest. T two biggest training camp battles to keep an eye on. began. Lines pretty set tyrant Smith's going to continue his role well cars. Zach Martens GonNa continue his role, so it's really all up to left guard and center, and it's GonNa be fun to watch you. Touch charmed Connor Williams. A written Bob's terms piece on the athletic, just about Hunter Williams think-i boasts last week. I'm so pretty much saying this is to make your break season for Connor. Williams zone each blache some with his athleticism Really highly rated by many coming into the drafty. He has talent he's is. Can you put it all together? Obviously battled some injuries last year. He is struggling here in the using I, mean you? Kind of touched on already, but do you think he can? Do is like draft status. In begun, a formula started off line this year. Yeah I mean I think Connor. Williams, suspend just fine. You know feel like people always kind of overweight draft picks and expect second round as to play like all pros, and that's just not the case you know I think for me for a second amid to amid delete second round pick. He was kind of a I know he was mid part of that second round. I think you you can't ask but so much more than what he's giving. You know hasn't been great at all times, but I think he's been solid for you. He started games for you. He's played well The other thing we got to remember is the left tackle on college, so he learned a new position. You played a new position. He kind of remade his body from your one year to play pretty well for the most part suffered some injuries. So you know I. Think you know for what what I knew of Connor Williams coming in. I think that he's done just. Just fine I think he's a fine player I. Don't think I'll ever be an all pro. I still think that he's best is a left tackle. He's not gonNA. Play that here. Tyron, Smith still chugging along a high level, but I just think that his op lettuces his pass protection. at tackle was what made him so intriguing to me in the draft But I mean again like like I said I. Think he's been fine at left guard for them. He hasn't been an issue by any means you know. A lot of people claim that he's been a problem and I. Don't think that that's true at all dancing in part of aged to cowboy, cowboys fan so spoiled by the offense. Of Wine at Conroy mistakes a lot of scrutiny they if he blades similar else the BRI when you'd probably want to have right. Yeah, no I agree Like I said I think he's been just fine and so I don't have any I think. The cowboys realistically have four starting interior offense alignment between Connor Williams Connor McGovern Tilapia. Dish and Joe, Loonie and not that's fantastic to have you know it's almost you're almost to the point where you're asking questions. Should they try to move on these guys for a player or draft pick? We did that with the cornerback position a few years ago. And, that's probably another discussion for another day, but before we get out a year I did want to talk a little bit about Zeke. Elliot and Tony Pollard. Really the only question I would ask is because we're still so far away from training camp. Getting started and really starting to dive into the content, but but I did want to ask you. You know Zeke Elliott's explosive runs were down in two thousand nineteen. Do you think that that's something? We see comeback in twenty twenty with maybe a little bit more creativity on offense. Yeah, that is an interesting point because he just doesn't look like himself as far as his twenty, sixteen, two, thousand, seventeen, the player that we were so used to breaking off runs, running against Detroit the Rangan Cincinnati is rookie year where he was able to get through the line of scrimmage, and really often jets and. We really haven't seen as I mean like you say. Part of that is because of often to play calling, but you wonder if some of that is because he's Kinda I wanted to say wearing down. But of you know me taking some hades. He's definitely has two miles on him dating back to college now with the cowboys scaring the load but I do think that with Mike McCarthy with killing more bag. mean kilometers death. In grade of mine remains to be seen how successful he will be with with film after one season, coordinators out, but I do think in that regard. There will some more opportunities for Zita I do think also as well. Adding to that point that. We expect the cowboys to be passing orientated this year. Really focusing on now that press guy CD with an with a wide receiver with windows see Redo of that they have. It's by Darwin Seducing. Dead Desk it also help your. Go get him in space. You know things like that. It's going to ask. I don't know if he's going to be able to break off. The fifty are runs a forty yard runs by do expect him to at least break off more Tannin. Twenty yard runs what are you? What are you expecting that area? Yeah could've set it much better. Think kind of what you said you know I think you'll see. You'll see a handful of more. Ten Twenty Yard runs I. Just don't know if he's that guy that has that. Home run ability anymore. I mean again. It's understandable. He's had a ton of carries over his career. He's getting up there in age. He's GonNa. Lose some of that explosiveness. He's a guy that like you said with other weapons around on offense that should open up the opportunity for few more explosive runs throughout the year I. Just don't know if you'll see many of those you know like you said. Fifty sixty yards that we kinda saw rookie year, which is which is understandable. He has balked up. He's. He's put on some weight and some muscle to kind of handle the lows the bell back so. In doing so you lose a little bit of that long speed, but. I, don't think we're going to. Have much of an issue from the running game this year. I think you have a you have a solid line. You have an upgraded it blocking tight end so I think you're. You'll see the running game. Probably produce it a little bit higher rate this year than it did last year. I think that will help offense. Kinda, click as a whole a little bit more. We are out of time to day, but we're going to be back next week and on as we creep towards training camp, we're going to start looking at some more of these position groups We looked at wide receivers. The other week we looked at the offense. Align tight ends in running game today, and we might turn to the defense side of the ball next week to take a look at the defense, the newly remodeled defense because there's a ton of new faces on that side of the ball. We appreciate everyone listening. We are talking to start. We will see you. Next time.
071: In Communion with James Baldwin. In Conversation with Tristan Andr Parks.
"Hey, everybody. Welcome to artists soapbox artists. Soapbox is a podcast featuring triangle area artists talking about their work their plans their manifestos. I am your host tamra Choson. I always request that guests send me a bio to read on podcast for this episode. I think the best and truest introduction to our conversation is to simply read the bio submitted by tristen, Andre parks. Tristan? Andrea parks born and raised of and by Nashville, Tennessee Tristan now holds his MFA in acting from UNC chapel Hill's professional actor training program and art maker, organizer and social Justice, frontline worker tryst in his on his way to creating a home and community in New York City with all of the intentions of creating a home across the Atlantic and back, he loves deeply and without exception to art to disruption to family to peace. The game is afoot. He seems ready. Are you and so it is? In this episode. We focus on Tristan's, original theater, dance, spiritual performance piece, titled they do not know Harlem in communion with James Baldwin see links and the show notes for information about the fundraiser scheduled for April twenty-seventh at wall towns studio theatre in Durham the full length peace will be performed as part of a residency at Thomas to France slippage lab at Duke University may tenth through eleventh. Don't miss it. I hope this conversation brings you the joy it brought me enjoy. Tristan Andre parks. Thank you for being here today. I'm so excited to talk with you today, we're focusing on your original dance theater music piece, titled they do not know Harlem in communion with James Baldwin. How do you describe this piece recently what's been sworn bestowed upon my heart in my mind is that it's a piece of like spiritual workshop and vice versa workshop on main. How are we collectively gathered in the space together, and sort of queering in prompting questions of that great question of who am I who am I who am I and oftentimes to in order to to know who you are to be on the trajectory of unraveling who you are, you know, you you have to go back in name that thing. Of the past. And so that's what this piece is to may going back into the past. So that, you know, I'm affirmed my now in what could audience members expect to experience when they are watching this unfold floor is it a participatory highly participatory Hayes, and so that's what they can expect is to not merely common be an audience member, but to come and be a witness, which is a term that Baldwin always used in his work always used whenever you know, on the social Justice, frontline, you know, working he'd always used the term witness because that then gives way to I am not just merely observing, but I have to be active I have to act on this thing. And so that's what those who come to witness. It can expect this to to merely be a witness anticipate embodying, the spirit in of what this what this thing is of the spiritual. Workshop is new them. I love this idea of talking about audience as witness because I think it implies a certain kind of accountability to what is happening in the space, and then perhaps invites people to reflect and have a dialogue with themselves with each other. And I think when we go into an artistic event only as observers it sort of lets us off the hook in a way that maybe isn't as fruitful and productive as it could be obsolete. So I think that, you know, especially from where where I'm imagining this piece is all driven from the Africanness aesthetic in. So when I think of art in the Africanist aesthetic, you know, there was no delineation between translator in those who witness everyone was acted as a participant in when I think of in the split among western tradition. Among the western. Imagination. Like there is this delineation between performer in audience, whereas in the African this aesthetic there is no delineation between singer. And those who listen to the singer, you know, a singer things because they have to or a storyteller translates the story because they have to dance or dances because they have to. And that's what this piece is. Absolutely. I I have trouble off also to defining the fees. But you know, in pragmatic sense. You know, that's where if I were to name. That's that's what this thing is is like it is a collective work. You have several collaborators who you're working with you talk a little bit about those folks will it all began actually this project again as a thesis for my drama seven twenty eight moving for the actor class. So a new last summer going into the fall of my third my third and final year of grad school that we'd have to devise and develop a twenty minute excerpt. Of a solo piece that could, you know, allow us to take wings in Tana? Mas our own creative voices as artists. So I knew that I wanted to work on a piece of on James Baldwin 'cause I'd always been told by mentor and colleagues that tristen wears the James ball would specifically specifically my professor teacher mentor. Mothers fear, Kathy hunter Williams. Who's a professor at UNC company member of playmakers. She's always she was always probing me about wears the ball in Ps, whereas the bowel these so time permitted itself. In fortunately, Tracy bursley, who's our movement coach in resident movement choreographer at playmakers. She sort of she's the inciting incident for this piece in developing incubating this immersive piece on Baldwin in. So that's how it began is in my movement for the actor class last semester. We were working on devising a twenty minute excerpt in we then present them at the end of the at the end of the semester, so in December, and I had developed a relationship with Tommy to France over the course of two thousand eighteen professor of dance in African American. Studies at Duke in who's the director of slippage lab, which is a dance and technology technological space for artists to come in and work and research movement in technology. And so I've mentioned this project to him in house said, you know, uncle Tommy, I'm working on a piece on ball win. I'm not sure where it's leading me. But I know like a no right now, I'm in the process of developing in devising getting he says, oh, you can use must face if you wanna workshop in he in in in slippage lab. So he gifted me his space last December to present the twenty minute excerpt, and it was a high time it really was. I could not have even fathom it being what it was then and gradually over time. Because of that moment there it's sort of like gradually taken its wings. And now, I'm working I've worked with a Marcella de Kamera of young gifted Umbro, creative consultancy here that uplift and holds our of color throughout the triangle community, and she co produced it with me at northstar where she's the artist in residence there, and I owed Marcella everything and have the cook over at north star to the arts, and it was just there in deputies that that happened in now partnering with Lisa Suzanne Turner Liden designer and projectionist who actually saw the piece in December in his now working on new projection lighting in images for the residency that is happening may at slippage lab. So I have an entire village of people who have back this project who are on the front line with me. And I don't look at it. As a solo performance piece. I look at it again as a collective spiritual workshop that you know, which is ultimately what art is. I'm you know, on all those names who who believe in this project with me because all it takes is the one. Yes. Kid be make a huge difference. So why were people asking you? Where's the Baldwin pieces that because you said I wanna do this or because people saw some sort of connection believe believe so think I've been asked in the past like what is connection to ball? And I was introduced to fall in truly introduced ball in in our stressed, the truly truly introduced following in undergrad. I Reggie of Ani's Rome. And before that I had done a church play. And my hometown church in that in my hometown church in Nashville that was directed by a cousin of mine. His his his infamous play his most put his most famous play the a man corner. And then I didn't have any context of who ball. When was it just merely chalked it up to it being another church play. And I was just excited to do it. I wanted to act I wanted to tell that story any opportunity that presented itself to meet to act. I did I did not. Passion, and whether they have been in the church or in the traditional sense of the theater. So the Amen Corner was where I was actually I introduced ball. However, I didn't have context of who it was I was sixteen seventeen than so I was just Joel overjoyed to be acting. However, it wasn't until I got to college university of Memphis where a really began to really like go through the archives of like literary giants a black literary giants. He knows on your hurston Audrey lower in James Baldwin, and until James Baldwin's work out began with Giovanni thrown because undergrad, particularly for me is where I begin to find on boys as queer queer artists as a queer is a queer, man. And so a reference I looked to ball because we look at the trajectory of grade school learning in in going to grade school, we were taught Martin Luther King, and we'll talk Malcolm Mex, but would never it's never really reference James Baldwin in. Bayer rostered or Audrey law. For those clear mothers and fathers of the movement in. So it wasn't until college where I Reggie of Ani's Rome. And then started reading blues for mister Charlie in going back to the eight-man corner in now, you know, just now going through his archives archives of essays upon essays and reading his friends and colleagues taught reading about like his friends and colleagues talking about him in his work, and you know, just going through the canon of interviews. And so it was undergrad where I really was like I had the I felt the impetus. I said to myself someday, I'm gonna do something with James Baldwin in that moment is now we're like now, it's like manifesting, and I didn't know then and undergrad with what the thing was that. I knew like I'm going to do something with James Baldwin. So it was college in over time. Like I cared his spirit with me because I was so inspired by him. And of course, like your heroes. You you. Emulate your hero, consciously or subconsciously. And so when I got to graduate school, it was sort of serendipitous not accident or I don't think when people come up to me and kept saying, Justin. Where's the ball? One-piece? Where's the ball? When Ps and Caproni me about it in now. I was just like it's common. You know, time time will present itself. And so now it has so maybe, you know, office through a tunnel. However, I assume that people might have felt like a metaphysical connection with with Baldwin that I may carry with me because I do desire to be as intellectually powerful as he was in his passionate as he was in just this large is he is he not do desire to be v that way, I wanna read a quote that you wrote on your gofundme page into little bit related to all of this. You wrote quote, it is necessary to continue to redefine the way. That Baldwin impacts this new generation of artists. So as to explore the relevance, and how we all embody his work his words and his legacy end quote. What do you see as his relevance and impact on this new generation of artists? Seer one of them think that his relevance. It all is in the fire next time. His essay the fire next time his magnum opus where he foresees the current political harm it that we're in. Now, he shadowed it and always reference ball when as a senior. The mighty see year in God's tongue. When I read the fire next time that essay last last fall when I I actually sat down with the full as because I'd only part of it prior the first part, which is a letter to his nephew, James. And I. Was charged with the psychic fervor of with the essay entail that essay alone the fire next time, and I recently read over sponsor to that essay particular in particular by a professor at UNC Randall Keenan conflict by this time, which is a response to bow. When's the fire next time and that within itself hold so much profundity of how someone can foresee in in literally takes pin to paper and writes down if we collectively do not define who we are than the climate of administration in leadership will continue to be absolutely corrupt, and we will suffer in we will suffer. We will pay a great price. If. If we do not speak truth to power in act on that truth in. So I think that that's what the relevancy is of Baldwin in his legacy in how he has now many ways of passed the torch to to us to really call us in in show up for one another in speak truth to you know, Jimmy in in violence in trauma. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I think that that holds so much way into the nineteen going forward. Yeah. That's where I am. That's where you know. I believe his work to to be where his work to have lied. Whether that be his essays with the hip been him literally marching on Washington. You know? On the social Justice frontlines. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Or whether that have been him having to leave to self preserve leave the United States since I answer again, he's been he's been some time in Europe in France. And he ended up going Turkmen and some time in Turkey and Instanbul. You know, self to self preserves is radical. Because he knew he. Had he stayed in the US than someone would have paid a price. Whether that had been him or someone at the risk of you know, it Baldwin's hands where he says he not blood would have been on my hand, or my blood would have been on someone else's hand. And so I had to leave I had to go. And so then later coming back to the US because there was more work to be time. He knew the deaths of Malcolm in Martin who were very close with him Medgar Evers, they were all very close in work very closely with one another and Andrew Young who was Martin's assistant whose acted as Martin's assistant Martin's right hand, man. They they all had to get to work, which is why which was the impetus for Baldwin to come back to the US to do more work in than you know, he'd go back to Europe to do more writing which is where he'd where he'd get his inspiration listening to Bessie Smith or fats Waller and that being the the. Potisk for go. Tell it on the mountain. You know, his his his first his first book that was published in. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So you know, I carry a lot of that experience in my body. I carry so much you, you know, it's he acts as my grandfather, you know, my uncle so would it be. All right. If you could speak to us some James Baldwin that you feel I'm willing to share. This is a this is actually an excerpt from his nineteen sixty three interview from Kenneth with Kenneth Clarke, this is from an interview. First house. I remember was on Park Avenue. Not the American Park Avenue. All maybe it is the American uptown Park Avenue with railroad tracks. We used to play on the roof in the. I can call it an alley but near the river. It was a sort of garbage dump those were the FU scenes, I remember my father had trouble keeping us alive. I was the oldest of nine kids. So I dealt with the kids and dealt with daddy. I understand much better. Now part of his problem was he convened his kids, but I was a kid, and I didn't know that. You there in very rigid. He kept us together. I must say and when I look back on my growing up. In walk that saying blocked today in two thousand nineteen because it is still there in think of the kids on that block. Now, I am aware that something terrible has happened which is very hard to describe. I am an all. But technical legal fact, a southern. My father was born in south. My mother was born in the south. And if they had waited two more seconds. I might have been born in the south. But that means I was raised by families whose roots were essentially southern rule in whose relationship to the church was very direct because it was the only means they have expressing their pain in that despair. But years later the moral authority, which was president the negro northern community when I was growing up vanished. And people talk about progress. And I look at Harlem. Which I really no, I know it like, I know my hand, and it is much worse today than it was when I was growing up. Thank you so much. It was remarkable. How you conjured his voice and speech pattern that it's remarkable because I can see you in front of me when I was hearing you through the microphone. Oh, mike. So you were speaking both as James Baldwin end as yourself sort of channeling both those was with those well that's in the piece in its entirety. But that was the James fallen section piece. So then I then later so Enlai my own story, and how it mirrors and also juxtaposes Baldwin story of my growing up in the literally in the physical physically in the in the south in his growing up in the north. But I I tend to find as a southerner because of traditions that were carried from his father in his father's father over to the north during the great migration during the era of the great migration. So yeah, I sorta yeah. I n les. I insert my voice in to mirror in also Dakota Mi's Baldwin's voice. These are some things that you already mentioned. But I wanna dig a little bit deeper here. We know that James Baldwin was an activist and is generally considered to be a literary figure as artists who. Playwright novelist. Essayist yet as you mentioned this project began in a movement course, and I wanted to share an excerpt of review that I read on Facebook, which I think is really more of a testimony than a review in. It was written by Toshi Reagan. If listeners don't know who that is Toshi Reagan is an American musician composer lyricist. This was must have felt wonderful to receive. This is this is a quote from from Toshiba's writing on Facebook, quote at the center of it all was the body the dance invocation took residents in the church on the pulpit and up and down the aisles tristen in a black suit white shirt black tie handled himself through the architecture of the clothes. He was wearing. I don't think I have seen anyone conjured dance Baldwin before last night, and quote, and she's talking about witnessing a part of the. Performance that you held at north star church of the arts recently. So why did you choose to dance Baldwin as opposed to just doing a straight up theatre piece? And then the second part of that question is how do you do that? Because my background is in both dance in in theater. And particularly in the world of I have a heavy heavy background in the world of concert dance, which is alternate. Like modern dance told through the story, which is alternately theater. And so I don't for me in my existence in how I in the world of theater and dance is that they're not two separate entities actually one in the same. And so why not dance ball when you know in really utilize Baldwin as a as a way to conjure my conjure him through movement. You know, it's not a matter of like why dance ball when? But it was a matter of like it's sort of I felt the fellow relational to do to not not to take ball when on in some sort of since of here. I am actor Tristan wanting to take on the role Duar. Hammers personal ball. Yeah. I wanted to really disrupt that idea as opposed to mean sort of having to do put in the work you have to physically as the witness see me put in the work to then possess Baldwin because the first question that was prompted to me at while. When I first began working on the piece last fall by my mentor, Tommy to France, aka uncle, Tommy, he asked the question does ball want to act as a collaborator in your piece. Oh, I love that. I'll different. So that was the that. That's the question that I'm ever sitting with an acting on that question had thin ignited me into this world of conjuring of movement utilizing the drum the horn in the strings to then pool Baldwin to call on Baldwin to then. Possess me, it's more. I think of it more in terms of possession again from the africanus aesthetic perspective of conjuring possession at ceremony. And so we are Dan calling on the spirit the Holy Spirit of Baldwin to then go forth to go four two. I think that Dan has danced acts as the the catalysts for the conjuring of. And so I have to earn the right to tell the story of Baldwin. So that then I can tell my own. That's where I am mentally with the Ps as far as like, it's not necessarily like short is dance ball win. But it's a more. So like the dance has sort of chosen me. It's called me. The dances called me. Again, it goes back to that whole rhetoric from earlier essay, you dance because you have. To you sing the song because you must translate story because you must well, I tell the store at dance the story of all because I must. And it's a simple as that should through telling his story. And then telling your story, what have you learned about yourself? Your story may be from the past present or future through working on this piece. Actually more powerful than saw. And that might that might sound in a bit egocentric for the shower listener, but I actually possessed a little more power than I imagined in the past the power of just really understanding who I am really going back in thanking those who have come before me. My mother father, my grandmother, all of my family who are beautiful beautiful people truly forgiving all of my pass truly. So that I can be Ferdie in because I'm free are that makes me powerful. And because Baldwin was so free. He was so free in he knew the dangers of what freedom meant, but because of he was so free. He was affirmed in his self. That was a profound amount of self regard that he had for himself in because he had such a profundity of self regard. Then he wasn't going to tolerate there with there were things that he would he would just not tolerate. Such as violence corruption. Trauma, all those things that he's spoken to it. Also steeliness. Which Tony Morrison speaks power to in her new work, the source of self regard. Where she was she speaks about in her essay peril, there's a danger pursuing art. And she says because what those in positions of power will do will try to name you. And then they will abuse you. And so there's a real there's peril. There is perilous is a pair of act to pursue our when you doing it for the sake of community when you doing it for the sake of your own HALE in and when you're doing it for the sake of healing pass trauma. And so I think that all of those things, you know, Baldwin what he did was pursue a pair of this act in. So I mean, it's powerful their powerful thing to do. And I think that even the smallest things which is this conversation here with you. And I is is a perilous act, you know, and I am always wrestling with that. And I think that now that I am going back to threw the ball went through the ball wins cannon in through an even in by way of going through Baldwin's cannon, then go back of my own pass and reassert how I imagined things to have happened in my past. And now that I am now that I am beginning to have a clear understanding of thing of how my mother my father moved through the world because they had to move that way. I can now forgive in. I can say thank you as the highest form of gratitude, which thank you is free in it is absolutely free. I think that that's the most powerful radical phrase anyone could ever say his thank you. Thank you. Yeah. And you and I spoke on the phone prior to this interview, you describe this piece as a catalyst for taking wings into the world. So you are on the verge of receiving your MFA in acting from UNC Chapel Hill, which congratulations that's a wonderful accomplishment, which talk a little bit about your experience in the program, and how or weather they do not know Harlem is a bridge between the two worlds of before. And after graduate school for you experience at UNC has been fully loaded in charged. You know, it's been highly emotional, and I say that in a multitude of ways me by emotional do me. It's spout. Many many joys many many trials in many many triumphs. And i've. Strengthened by I'm strengthened by my experience at UNC. I'm very very grateful for I've developed in met some of the most extraordinary artists within that community at UNC in playmakers in here in the triangle, and I'm very blessed to to be here right now in this moment in time here with you in here in the triangle because it is powerful here. So many powerful artists in senior artists out here. Doing exceptional word is absolute blessing to be able to know these extraordinarily people in be able to, you know, have met some really profound social Justice workers, you know, and people who are giving their whole hearts to communities that have been disenfranchised. So yeah, that's been my experience in grad school is that I've had a fully charge experience. I've had a great loss. And great gains, and I like to think of the Mohammed Ali quotas that you know, I don't ever lose every experience either either a win or lesson in. So in the midst of maybe like a physical loss I gained so much. I gained a sense of brotherhood and against many sisters in a gained a profound amount of knowledge is far as my practice as an artist in the bubble him win. And I'm ever behold into this community here in the triangle. I'm very I do not take my experience here for granted. And they do not know Harlem has been affirmation for me that you know, if you can see it in the minds eye, then that's enough. It's absolutely enough in all you have to do is speak truth to that thing that you see through your third eye and someone says, yes, and it all in. That's all it takes. Is. Yes. And we continue to grow and expand. This piece began as a class project now has developed into workshops, you know, and then we have the fundraiser, which is the twenty seventh of April and then the residency in may in. So that's gonna fully come to live with the images and projection are with the movement in the live score in them recorded score. So at to believe that this piece is a piece that will have legs will have longevity in with the blessing of Mr. Baldwin's stay, I believe that we we will go to the mountaintop with this piece in every dream will be seen to in every every manifestation is already a reality. I- -ticipant all of the good that it will bring to communities my community here and abroad. It's definitely a catalyst for me, you know, transitioning into this profound next step of my of my of my life of of my artistic career in of my life. And by almond. I'm overjoyed about it. I'm truly am overjoyed. And I am going wisely in slowly, I'm not gonna. I'm not I'm not running on that gonna run fast. You know, with the I'm just gonna take my time with it. Enjoy enjoy this moment. Now in anticipation, the good to come. How can people support your work? We have the gofundme page, which is WWW dot go fund me dot com slash Harlem fundraiser, which is the handle euro. And then we also have the fundraiser event coming up April twenty seventh which is a snow emission there. But we'll do a little like Thai than offering basket to help support the work. That extraordinary art is my collaborators such as not musician. Eric, Don, kin Britain Harrison, he will act as vocalist in produced the score. At least Suzanne Turner, who is again lighting designer projection artists, Dan. Yeah. So that's how we can monetarily show for the work. And then of course. Again, bring you bring you bring your whole self. So and I won't include all the links those pages in the show notes. So that people can go and do some clicking. And and no more of the details. Is there anything that? We haven't spoken about that. You would like to cover before we wrap up relieve that we have redefinition touched touch base on test. A lot. I believe so tamra. Well, I just wanna thank you. Thank you, deeply insincerely for this conversation, and for the work that you're making because I know that it has already touched many people's hearts has opened them to deeper communion with with not only James Baldwin, but with the community with themselves. So thank you so much. Thank you. Hey, friends, did you know that I'm working on a new audio drama to be released this summer twenty nineteen. It's an adaptation of my stage, play master builder. This is a whole new kettle of fish for me. And I'm so excited. We're revealing all sorts of behind the scenes goodies be the artist soapbox patriotic page. And we'd love for you to join us as we rolled word completion, patrons who donate three dollars or more per month have access to updates and extras and even more excitingly they'll have early access to the completed audio drama before the general public come on. And join us at patriotair dot com slash artist. Soapbox.
127: ARDEO: Narrative medicine and new play development with Jacqueline E. Lawton and Jules Odendahl-James
"Hey everybody welcome to artists soapbox. Artists Soapbox is a podcast featuring triangle area artists talking about their work, their plans their manifestos I. Am your host Tamra Kazan? Hey friends. This introduction was recorded on June, sixth twenty twenty. The interview was recorded on May Eighteenth Twenty twenty. I'm pleased to bring the second of two episodes featuring the work of Jacqueline even late dramaturge, producer and advocate for access equity, diversity and inclusion in the American theater. In, this episode along with dramaturge Jews Odin Doll. James. You'll hear Jacqueline discuss her play our day. Oh! Our Day was a one act play inspired by research and personal narratives of Health Practitioners and patients at UNC Chapel Hill North Carolina's JC Burns Center this play explorers how patients and doctors communicate with each other how health practitioners communicate with the public, and how theater artists can be of service to patients, doctors and the larger public. Please see the link in the show notes to learn and read more about our day to see photos and watch the short film of the piece performed. You may have noticed that. Many of the twenty twenty artists box episodes have focused on playwrights play writing and new play development, and that is certainly the case again for this episode. In this conversation Jacqueline Jules touch on the field of narrative medicine that particular play writing process for our day. The value of partnering the Dramatic Arts With Science and opportunities to create those collaborations. Speaking of collaborations, jewels and Jacqueline talk about their work together as theater makers, and the awesomeness of dramaturge and dramaturge, especially for new plays in development. Narrative Medicine is not my specialty, but it does seem to me that this may be an important moment for personal narratives of Covid nineteen. Both patients and health practitioners, sharing individual experiences and stories can be a way to share information about symptoms and best practices can be a tool for healing recovery even during isolation. And can be a way to feel seeing and to be seen. And now for the BIOS. Jacqueline Lawton is a playwright, dramaturge, producer and advocate for access equity, diversity and inclusion in the American theater. Produced plays include blood bound, and tongue tied the Hampton. Years, intelligence, mad breed, and the wonderful wizard of Oz currently. She is an assistant professor in the Department of Dramatic Art at the University of North. Carolina, Chapel Hill and dramaturge for playmakers repertory company. She is also dramatists guild. Regional Representative for North Carolina. Gills Odin. Del James Is Director and dramaturge, specializing in art and science, collaborations, documentary, professors and works by women playwrights. She's a CO founder of Durham's bulldog. Theater after four years as an associate artistic director at Man Bites Dog Theatre from twenty fourteen to twenty eighteen. At Duke University she is a lecturer in Theater Studies, the program director of Arts and Humanities advising a member of disability access initiative, and at twenty seventeen eighteen teaching for equity fellow. She was Kinley scholar of medical. Humanities Pin State College of Medicine and an affiliated Faculty of Dukes Reimagining Medicine Pilot Program in twenty eighteen. She has taught courses in medical humanities such as playing doctor, medical stories on stage, performing science and visual cultures of medicine. Enjoy the. Episode. Hello Jewel. Hello Jacqueline so much for talking with me this Monday morning. I would like to talk a little bit about our Deo a project that you have worked together before we launch into that I'm wondering if one of you would begin with talking about what is narrative medicine for those listeners myself included who aren't as familiar with that narrative medicine is a practice. It's a field of study. It is one that encourages healthcare professionals to study narrative theory and literature as a means by which to meet patients stories which are complex and winding. With the kind of attention to you know not just the facts Ma'am that kind of dragnet approach, but to really find out to really learn how to listen and also narrative medicine is a practice that's offered to healthcare professionals to write their own stories right their own kind of winding understandings of. Not only diagnostics, but the dynamics of medicine and care and giving their space for their own subjectivity, it's also one that tries to conquer that false divide between subjectivity and objectivity as saying that all knowledge is are valuable and necessary particularly when we come to the complexity of treating someone with an illness that it doesn't even need to be a complex illness to have complexity in its experience. Experience and so narrative medicine has become a tool. It's also being assessed now for how does it have impact on on patient outcomes as well as on physician resilience, there's a crisis in healthcare long before the pandemic between how physicians and practitioners of all different kinds are dealing with the complexities of the social practice of medicine is experienced everything from its economics to the wrestling with mortality. So these are all things that need practitioners who are able to see with multiple lenses and narrative medicine offers narrative particularly as one of those ways to provide another complex lens to the complex practices. You mentioned that this was being assessed for outcomes. What are the outcomes that we're seeing well? Outcome is always a rest of thorny question between arts and Sciences. Sciences there are things that are trying to I. Think Measured Literally Patient Outcomes does a practice of narrative medicine or of journaling or of collaborative storytelling or listening to a patient story and writing about it. Do these things change something about the way this? The patient is experiencing their care the way that they recover the way that the physician approaches their job. Those outcomes are hard to measure and whether they are valued once they are measured is a big question. There's a lot of embrace of the term wellbeing being around art and health these days that well being as diagnostic measure is something that we need to be looking at more seriously, and it's also one of those things that is very complex and difficult to measure. I think sometimes I would like science to let go of the measuring part of it because again you can turn a practice that is coming from a good place and doing good things into something that becomes wrote, and like measures you have to hit and that I think undermines its benefits sort of like wellness and wellness almost as a tyranny these days. Are You well? Are you doing your mindfulness like? Like these are packages ideas that have a good origin, and have a very kind of freeing space to, but when they become diagnostic measures or outcome measures, they can be like Oh. Am I doing it right? Are there things that I've done? Am I doing them in the proper order? And now I just feel like it's another thing. I have to do as opposed to being more connected to my being. So at Columbia University, where narrative medicine this is where readers Sharon, who's wanted the I would say sort of the founding members of the discipline. They are doing a assessment measures in relationship to recovery from particularly I think complex chronic illnesses like cancer, but at the same time that's becoming sort of part of a physician assessed practice. I think there are other dimensions where people are starting to question why. Why does assessment need to look a particular way? How do we start talking about impact in relationship to these practices without making them feel like another thing you have to do instead of finding the best things that work when you're working with the patient, or when you're thinking about yourself as a caregiver, what sense what brings the best experience to this moment and letting those have some space of value. In their effectiveness, thank you for that. You know one of the things I wanNA talk about is the feedback that you'll have received from Deo. And about valuing the individual experience, the individual unique experience and giving that value both as a story, but also as as we experience it as audience members I think is something that can sometimes bump up against our desperate need to have everything quantified and to accrue data that is sort of uniform and it. It results in kind of a strange like teaching to the test that happen. Jacqueline. Could you dovetail for us into this audio project? Absolutely so on my interest in narrative medicine actually started without that terminology wrapped around it. It was my mother had several back surgeries and she was actually she pretended to this nurse. She was working in a nursing home, and a patient was resisting being lifted in push charge she fell, and that's what caused the beginning of her back injury in multiple surgeries later. She was told that she was incapacitated and that was a word that was given to her. And the thing that I have always really long for is different language to be applied from inevitably from the point of view of the patient. My Mother did not feel incapacitated. My mother felt it extraordinary pain, and she felt immediate difference in her way of life, and she was also no longer working as a nurse, but the language vague capacitators didn't actually reflect her reality, but that was a term that kept being lobbed at. At her and I thought that was such. An interesting and I think unfortunate way that medicine can be communicated or are the result of healthcare. I wanted my mother's to tell the story of how she was feeling from her specific point of view, and not just because she's a medical practitioner, but because she's a human being who's having this relationship with her body, and can speak out loud to experience happening within her body. And so the later medals. I got to learn about this practice. Night was also invited to be a part of the National Academy of Science and separately the National Institute of Health. They each held these conversations with theater artist and the idea was. Can we get data artists interested in telling stories? Of Science so that scientists away to reach larger communities about their findings. And so. A lot of really interesting people in that conversation including Dr Jim Evans geneticists here at UNC, and then I was I'd actually accepted the job at UNC inside, told him, and he said well. Let's meet when you when you moved down here. He's very passionate about theatre. And so I knew I wanted to collaboration with him, surrounding genetics, which later became a play among these things, and then focus my anniversary any and I let him know that I was interested annex, exploring collaborations with scientists and medical practitioners, and he introduced me to burst Cairns who's the director of North Carolina JC burn? Center here. UNC and we started talking about. How can we tell the story of what happened at the burn center because Burns Burns, so there are diseases that get a lot of attention. Get a lot of funding behind them, but burns are not that Burns are hard to look at and so it's difficult to attract people's interest, so I was immediately. You know interested in working with him to tell these stories because he spoke about Burns there. The great equalizer doesn't matter your race. Gender class doesn't matter what you are who you are. You can be impacted by burn. And so I applied for another grant and got some fundings I could work with jewels. And Students at UNC school the arts were the actors that I worked with Kevin hench Williams was our. Dr Cares actually had a heart attack in the middle of our project, which stopped our process because he was my partner in this, and he needed to heal, you know. His health became the top priority in so I told him we're GONNA. Stop so that we can figure out what you actually need on the other side of this. Maybe you actually don't need. Need to be working with the playwright ready to play, but on the other side of as his healing began, he said more than ever. He wants these stories about the work that they do at the burn center to be told, so we continued the practice, so we actually ended up writing a twenty minute play. That was the result of conversations I had with. Medical practitioners from Doctors Internists Nurses Chaplains that work there at the hospital, and then people who work at the burn centers after-care program 'cause they are when you think about narrative medicine, the story obviously doesn't stop with diagnosis treatment. There's also recovery in life beyond and the burn. Singer really has a phenomenal program for their patients in former patients beyond the program, so that project so twenty minute play. That looks at you. Know the history of the burns. Center how it got started in different voices from students who are in the medical were learning about medicine in deciding that Burns is something they want to actually for injuries or something. They WANNA explore. We need medical doctors. We need burn survivors at all. In this twenty minute processing it. I started as a play, we had to readings of it one here at UNC Chapel Hill, and then one at Unisys go the arts, and then it actually went on to become a film. We got it. Don't which is really exciting, and then I was able to share that film with students in the medical school, which was also very exciting. When you ask the question about what was the response, and then also to Joel's desire to? Shift measurements of one of the most exciting things for me was in the post show discussion that happened at UNC. We had as our panelists at UC school the arts the panelists were myself. Joel's Cabinet Williams in the end, the six actors who were of the play at UNC Chapel Hill believe I, was on the panel, and and that it was also. Bruce Ends his colleagues in the actually had some of the people who I interviewed some of the burned survivors that I interviewed, and one of the men said I this. This is the beyond measurement. He's said that. You know the person has alive activities, and they bite all of us to everything, and of course we better families to be a part of it. My father has never come to any of the events. Except for today, this was his first time coming to an event to hear the story about people like us. People who had been burned in who are now survivors. And I felt like. That's the measurement that we should look at is who shows up. Who's interested in stories? What are they learning? How are they moving through their lives differently? Having been taught that how they experienced? What's happening in their bodies? Should be the first thing that's asked in. We should be guided by that experience in that practice I just wanted to follow up with that. Is that narrative medicine up to this point? In time there have been lots of plays about illness, but the idea of including plays in the Canon of Narrative Medicine Beyond wit Margaret Edison's you know sort of gripping play about a English professor who is experiencing cancer plays tend to be left out of it. I think partly because they ask a communal response narrative medicine. Poems Memoirs Novels. Have A to be sometimes a very personal process in practice, and so I think it was both important to us to claim our day Oh in the Canon of narrative medicine to try and make more space for plays in that space, and also see what the you know. Both the construction and experience and response to plays can offer narrative medicine. Medicine as as a discipline, and so again I just think that what Jacqueline points to and somebody it. It does draw different people into the room, and the experience of those stories shared by actors right on stays there embodied in different ways in this was a young, very vibrant cast who performed it, and I think that also had a tremendous impact. For the audience there, too, so it's this bodies speaking in a different kind of way with a different kind of presence that can bring out a different kind of experience. We talk a little bit about how this piece is constructed. I'm curious to know if different things had to be in place during the development process when compared to building a you know what we think of as a typical classic play What needed to be in place? How was this process? How did it unfold? Oh, I, really love this question. So what needed to be in place was knowledge so. In by that. I mean in in I love how jewels before. About. What is narrative? Medicine spoke about the multiple ways of knowing so I had to learn. Multiple things before this play could come into existence so something that was already in place was the history of the Burns Center. So that's something the narrative the history they have that it's on their website that exists, but that actually did not common till the first draft of the play was actually completed. But then prior to even starting the play, I had to be in conversation with these medical practitioners, and also the survivors, and so I was actually at UNC medical, school Msn gave me a conference room for four hours over the course of like six days, and a student actually was with me a medical student, actually who had taken a player in class with me was there because this was. Was a part of her knowledge building herself like she's about to become a medical professional. She'd love being stationed with medical professionals. specifically wants to be the kind of practitioner who is listening deeply to their patients. So this was something that was really useful for her, so all those interviews had to take place I in those were hard was really hard interviews to process because I, met A. Who his first day of work he's witnessed. Both you able to pray over a birth, and also helped the family who had lost the patriarch of their of their family in his first day in going through that as people are telling your store their own story, you're being impacted course by which courses video storytelling. So belt. Pieces had to be in place I before I could start writing at did additional research just on literally like what is a burn? What does the burn due to tissue and an organs? Then what is the degree to which you the degree level of heat where the body goes in shock like that? So those are things like I just had to learn for myself like in my person in order to figure out how to write about this. Those sorts of things needed to be set, but the structure of the play came in in Persia with jewels is as figuring out. How is historic be told, and who all do we need to hear from like I know that in my in my research, I heard from a lot of different types of people. Who Do we WANNA? Make sure we hear from in this process. The actually the one group of people who I didn't talk to, but had working with me was a medical student, and so I was really glad that we and I don't remember how that came as you might remember, but we I go I. Think it was because we need to figure out how to teach about burns. So that the audience had an understanding of what this what this is. So, what better way to teach about burns in the have a medical professor teaching students in students you know with their high energy and excitement competition enthusiasm not to show what it is. They learned, but also needing to learn themselves, and then, of course we needed to learn about like rapid response like what happens with a first responder shows up to a burn victim. Like what what do they need to know in do and so that showed up in the world the play we just passed a lot of questions about if we're writing a play about the experience of burn practitioners in burn survivors. What do we need? We want the audience to walk through like wet. What does the experience? We want the audience to have it as much as we could. We want them to experience multiple voices around what can happen. While something beautiful about plays, is coral right the coral that happened you can have individual people speak together as one voice, but then representing and break off into different spaces, and so this was one of the things about burn treatment. Is this inter disciplinary professional right, so it burns affect every part of the human body, which means there's particular specialties that are had but the folks. Folks who are in cardiology in pulmonologist in skin care, everyone has to be working together, so the idea of kind of a team can be so i. think powerfully represented by a chorus of people working together, and then you have that the group of people can be very specific individuals, so we hear detailed voices and points of view, but then they can shift and become. The sounds of the you know sort of responding to the sounds of the equipment, the group of people who would be first responders, the group of family members right so the way that theater can allow a set of people to shift from one person in place to another without confusion, if you can give the audience sort of signposts and ways of understanding and I think that that both seemed after so many interviews seemed essential to the. The dramaturge, play and I. Think so effective in that dramaturge, because the people in the audience were from all of these different communities, remembering times where they all had to kind of come together or at least had to know what was happening in this other group in order for something else for treatment to move forward, or you know moving into after care when you need to know the history of what a patient has been through. And I think part of that was also into the play as we went into the rehearsal process, which I think is also really exciting. With Kathryn Hunter Williams her wanting to bring, we didn't just do a stage. Reading scripted scripts at a music stand. These young actors are so phenomenal. They were ready to get off book. show up in the most exciting way but what she really wanted to help us do is. So with the sound design that came in the different beeps that showed up. Is that what we know? We here in medic in a hospital sounded ambulance of course, and then even things like when a defibrillator is happening in everyone breaks in you back away like making sure that those actions are shown because this is what we is everyday individuals whether we've experienced yourselves. We've seen it on any medical television show, so we understand this world allen the other thing that was really great that when the medical professionals spoke with me, it was on there so generous with your time. They came on their break to talk to me and for those interviews we were in the break room. You know so. We got to experience the kinds of conversations that take place in a in a break room with medical professionals. which unless you are that you don't have that experience? So that became a part of the world of the play to first of all I want to say that I feel like the fluidity of the structure of. Of this piece was really useful, and in the ways that you mentioned that you both mentioned in giving us a kind of a broad sense of the experience, and I felt like it opened up possibility for more people to see themselves represented and their experiences represented I imagine as audience members that breadth helped everybody feel more included in what you are putting out there for people I guess. I also want to say that through this podcast. It's really even more so become apparent to me how important it is for people to tell their own stories in their own words as it living people as a way of being seen and valued and heard and I think that's one of the great gifts that these types of narrative medicine theater pieces can offer to people. It affirms the value of their lived experience of what they've overcome individually and in community because I just WanNa lift that up as is something that I see as a gift that you are giving to people. Can you talk a little bit more about what you see as the value that this type of peace affords can be the value of the process or the value of the product, so I was talking with the with the burn survivors. The thing that I was taught is that not everyone in there comes a point when this becomes true is that they call themselves? Burn overcome irs because there's there's a way in which the healing process it, not that it it is complete, but that its that you no longer defined by this event. That happened to you this great. event. And you've you've overcome this thing that happened and. I was so happy to have been given that given that inside information because I was able to put it in the play, which audience members than really greatly appreciated this space of injury treatment. He Lane recovery overcoming so that traumatic events which alter your life. And defying a particular moment in time. Absolutely, there is a world where you can overcome it. And whether it be physical markings may always remind you, but you're no longer stuck in that it stuck isn't quite the right word, but that trauma is no longer what is driving each moment of each day in each thought. And I? Game that was such a beautiful space to. Beautiful Gift to be given in a beautiful space to realize, and it was really really happy to put it in the play, because that's been something that people have really truly appreciated including the medical students who, after watching the twenty minute film in listening to the push of a session, said to me that that space of overcoming is what we should all strive for, and obviously it's. It's not on the doctor's clock. It's on the individuals clock, but what that means is that the doctor? The nurse, the internists that. Whoever is always listening to the patient and I got? Yes, that's it that right there. It's the listening to the patient is what we're getting to hope in what I have seen. Is that this play because we do have the patients speaking? And we do have the doctor's talent nomadic medical professionals telling us why they decided to go into medicine in the first place. I hope people can see it, so they can start to realize that their point of view their perspective. Their individual story is what's needed in that healing in healthcare process. Another aspect of this was that while there are elements of this piece that are rooted in documentary theater in that sort of deep listening interviews and spending, time and spaces, and really trying to absorb the kind of material lived conditions of the people who you're trying to learn about whose stories you're listening to. It isn't a documentary play. It isn't meant to be a precise representation. It is theatrical. It is trying to use the dimensions of. Of Multi Vo Calisi of multiple place in time, and that characters are distillation of many stories. They're not universalized. They're very specific, but they're not necessarily trying to be you know the J it's the burn center at is were being honest and responsible to a history, but that history is poetic as much as it is real, and I don't need to put poetry and realism in a in a in a binary against one another but I think that it has the expressive qualities of it are the places in which than lots of different people? People can find themselves represented or push against representation without necessarily feeling like there's a right or wrong that this is of capturing of a moment in time of a cycle of treatment, and within that it one of many, and it kind of acknowledges that by its multiple calendars right it's it's not trying to be the end all and be-all, but it is as welcoming as it can be, and as a jumping off point for. Other ways other stories other. You know sort of in conversation with other pieces. I think that that is both it's it. It can move from Bert. It doesn't always have to be about burns right. It can be to any profession, but it also is It really embraces the form of theater. What Theodore can do specifically in telling these stories, which is unique in its art form. I think if we let it be. And, so the things that theater can teach narrative or that narrative in theater together can start to make visible or a make resonant for people is. That there's a lot of ways that this piece becomes a kind of. Example. It's not meant to be a model, but just an example chose. Can we talk a little bit more about opportunities for? Theater makers with an medical humanities across interdisciplinary unity's for them within this narrative medicine like Sama theater maker and I want to just like this. How do I? You heard just out there. Jacqueline, saying the first thing is that you get a grant I mean I think the the. Key Element is is both finding your collaborators I I actually think we knew each other before you were on that panel at Nih Jacqueline, but I'm not sure whether we actually came to know each other. In the circle of theater makers being in conversation with scientists, which is a big interest of mine, and boasting Jacqueline produced or her own play writing in response to that, but also where how do you get at seat at that table? I mean scientists are very interested in people communicating their reality right so here's the science youth theatre maker are the. The storyteller and you go and do that and I think those collaborations They're not not like falling off the trees, but they are comment because this skills that we are given the skills that you're given to work in a science lab are not necessarily thinking about. How will I explain this to anybody? or how will I make people care about what I'm doing? I'm just doing what I'm doing and the spaces in training that were given his story. Makers is about communication, always always thinking our audience, and sometimes to our detriment. Right that we. We sort of think about Oh. Wait a minute. Who am I talking to as opposed to? What do I WANNA? Unearth so there is a positive set of collaborations that are available. It's not frequent partly because we go back to that measurement aspect and science medicine, being a branch of science right is very interested in quantifiable impacts and story making, and you can get an I an NSF grant that is focused on education and communication and VAT sometimes as a space where you can collaborate, but the parameters four even the impact of that story you know. Know like what you have to prove, and what you have to show our immense, you know the Sloan Foundation, which is a national science foundation that's interested in funding communication about science, a play writing competition every year, and some of the plays that come out of there are incredible, and some of them feel like pr letter for science ride. They don't necessarily feel like art, but you know so. Artists have to strike this tentative balance between 'em I serving the story, which means it might go in lots of different places or am I serving the. Expected outcome which is does that person now knows something about X. Y., z., phenomenon or science. Right and I think that tension. You have to find good collaborators I. Think Jacqueline found one in. Dr Cairns I. Forget the person that you met at the NIH? WHO's a ductile geneticist Dr? Right, if you can find those collaborators on the scientific or medical field, who are are willing to use their influence and have an expansive view on storytelling in their own projects, I'm I'm collaborating with a scientists climate geologist at UNC. I've been working with her for two and a half years on a play that she wanted to write out of her research. She's someone who's well respected in her scientific field, but. But. Her field is also dealing with the kind of difficult narrative around climate, change and beach, restorations and housing, and all of these kind of larger social issues, and she wanted to engage a different way of telling the story of her research, and that became a play so finding someone who is an expert in a field who is willing to put their expertise in different context or collaborate with your expertise. To find out. What can you tell together I? Think is the. It's the greatest gift when you can find it. It's also the thing that a lot of times. You kinda have to work carefully to find out. How do we make work together? Because the demands for the outcome of that work are so different. How do we understand what are the values that were working together in order to achieve if it's education than it's that is, it's changing. You know sort of changing the public narrative. Okay, then it's that. Is it not deeper knowledge about the science? Each one of those might require a slightly different collaboration and certainly. Certainly a different outcome plays great because they can hold lots of different realities right. There's lots of different forms that that can take, but you also have to be on the same page if you're making new work around that on. How are we going to get there? What are we going to let drive the collaboration being attached to universities, really great for a theater artists. Because you've got creative research is something we do all the time and you got access. To these folks, but the other thing I would say start with yourself. Start with literally your health stories the hill stories of your family like I think about like when you got the doctor to fill out like what is your medical history and you have to figure out what is your family's medical history, their medical history and that's where the stories began obviously accuracy Devlin's very important. You know if you're actually trying to. To share out information you want that to be accurate. That's one of the things in working with the NASD I H is We love drama. We love narrative because the storytelling nature is what captures the audience. We also WANNA. Make sure without weighing it down too heavily that it's accurate but I think for those who may not be able to write a grant, or who might not have access like I do to. People at University I. Think if you can start telling your particular story and the story of your. What's going on with your family? I think that's that's the beginning of a process. Right author so many things we can talk about. It's very hard to wrap this up. Okay we do need to come to a close. Is there anything that we haven't talked about that. You would like to mention before we wrap up. I would just say we haven't touched on it. The implication is there that Jacqueline and I are both drama Turks. Work with other people when we worked together, I tend to be her dramaturge and I'm also a director. Right where we have these different facets in hats, but I think one of the things that is beneficial about if you can if you're someone who writes. And it doesn't. They don't have to call themselves dramaturge if that title is intimidating, because I can understand how it has, it seems very academic and more like sort of something being attached to your work, but I think if you can find a collaborator who can bring a broader sense or add to what already are your strengths, other strengths and perspectives. Someone that you trust someone who can if you can work with them over a period of time, I think that's great. Because you can evolve, can share with them the different aspects of your work. Work and they can both get to be your audience. You're embedded audience as well as then your sort of embedded critic or embedded person who's going? Wait a minute or asking a question that you know you. Trust is as genuine and yet complicated that you're willing to answer right, or you're willing to say. That's not that I. Don't need to answer that question right now and trust me I know why right so I think just the deep collaboration particularly around theater partly, because what we're doing is already trying to carry so many voices and anticipating. Anticipating so many different listeners and experiencers that the benefit of having somebody that you you trust to work with is already anticipating that moment, and sometimes working with one person I think it's great, but you can also get that if you work with multiple people because again it's an opportunity, but developing habits of work that feel good to you so that if you have a different collaborator each time you know what you need from that person, and you can articulate it, and if you find that person says if they do their job well, typically they can. Can Say I. Hear you and that is what I will give you I would say it I I'm biased because I've had a fairly i. feel like both personally productive and professionally exciting collaboration with Jacqueline, but it's been over a number of years, and I haven't necessarily had that before with anybody except my spouse and what it has shown, what has helped me grow as a person, and even outside of the work that we do together I'm kind of carrying that experience with me, and I think that makes me a better theater maker overall that. Yet that's so beautifully said and I would say I would agree because I feel like with rating with jewels as a dramaturge. You know I always I come to her with these just big questions like this is what I wanna do like thinking about among these things, which is like I wanted to explore. Play the dresses. Human Rights American imperialism in Nigeria and genetics. And I put it in a play with like five p Ball. Help rate so I go to her, and I can say this are though the recent immigration play. That went through so many iterations and I'm like Omega insists maybe says maybe pose. Thing and Gills can say to me just right. Just sit down. Stop trying to figure it all out before in the play, and just right and I know I can trust I trust her to tell me what it is I need to do in the moment and again we can work together. It's only been five years I've only been here five years, but it feels like at least thirty because we packed in so many projects in that five year timeframe by which I mean I come to her every day with a new idea and say is this of interest. Interest. Can we play on this together? And I literally just gables three more plays for the summer, and it's just it's just really delicious, because the brilliant thing that a trick is able to do, particularly want as smart as jewels she can see what is unique distinct about each particular story, and that the thing that I was doing in one play is not gonNa work for this other play. She can identify lazy writing. She knows when my writing is very lazy because I hit a point of. Exhaustion or I haven't done the interrogation into a character that I should or just lost in the role, the play at the moment, so having that kind of collaboration I can send the play her in word, and know that all the markings in that are gonNA show up are good to be what strengthens the play, because she's so inside of my writing, and so inside of the intention of the peace, even when I'm in the mud of it, she can see so clearly where it is on trying to go and then help to get me help to get me there really and the other thing that working with the drama trick is so just life. Saving grace is that. All those audience questions and all those. Opinions the drama Ter- can help decipher what is good to think about and enjoy what is useful to move the play forward. What is let's hold this out over here because it's not gorgeous. Play at this moment may be a year from now. This note is GonNa. Be Valuable, but not right now the so that's been. That's been migrated. Join working with Joel specifically, and and when you can find a good drama trick. That's able to do all those things. Hold onto them as long as you can. Because it's a, it's a really beautiful beautiful connection. Have thank you both so much. I love this as a way to end our conversation. I'm totally here for our theater pods. There's just so much to be said for working in collaboration with people who care for us and care for the work we do, especially as that relationship develops over time, so thank you so much for speaking to that. Thank you for the work that you do which I am so inspired by, and for just being wonderful individuals and wonderful team, so thank you I will put links in the show so that. People can watch the film and read about it. I'm sure they will be as inspired as I am. Thank you very much. Thank you, thank you. Thanks so much for listening for more information. Please see the show notes and artists Soapbox Dot Org. You can also listen to the six episodes of our new scripted audio fiction piece the new Colossus at the new Colossus PODCAST DOT com. Thanks so much. Hey Franz, this introduction was recorded on June sixth twenty twenty. The interview was recorded on May Eighteenth Twenty twenty. I'm pleased to bring the second of two episodes featuring the work of Jacqueline Lawton playwright, dramaturge, producer, and advocate for access equity, diversity, and inclusion in the American theater in this episode along with dramaturge Gills Odin Doll James? You'll hear Jacqueline. Discuss her play our day. Oh! Our Day was a one act play inspired by research and personal narratives of Health Practitioners and patients at UNC Chapel Hill North Carolina's. Center this play. Explorers how patients and doctors communicate with each other how health practitioners communicate with the public, and how theater artists can be of service to patients, doctors and the larger public. Please see the link in the show notes to learn and read more about our Deo to see photos and watch the short film of the piece performed. You may have noticed that. Many of the twenty twenty artists soapbox episodes have focused on playwrights play writing and new play development, and that is certainly the case again for this episode in this conversation, Jacqueline and Jules touch on the field of narrative medicine, the particular development process for our day, the value of partnering the Dramatic Arts and Science and opportunities to create those collaborations. Rations, jewels and Jacqueline talk about their work together as theater makers, and the awesomeness of dramaturge and dramaturge, especially for new blaze in development. Narrative Medicine is not my specialty, but it does seem to me that this is an important moment for personal narratives of Covid nineteen both for patients and health practitioners, sharing individual experiences and stories can be away to share information about symptoms and best practices can be a tool for healing and recovery, even during isolation can be a way to feel seen to be seen.
25: Friday, February 8th, 2019 with Juliette Porter and Kelsey Owens
"Good morning. Millennials. Welcome to the morning toast today hosting with me. I have my, you know. I work shot pretty J protege. I'm under her wing slave ledge bitch. Mario australia. Senator Susan Auch. Ray? Hello. Hi. Thanks for having meets like feels like it's been so long since I've been here since you've been here with me being you never really do it together covering for you when you're being a deadbeat. Sorry. I've been fighting for a while, you know. Well, wow. It's like, you just think like you're gonna wake up and do the show, and then you just wake up and get slayed by your your race is just call me sleep. So we're even now. Oh, I see I have to be on by duty lesson. You were here. We spent the entire episode riverdell because I had just caught up. I know you've already how like life changes because I don't even watch it anymore. She is it really does change. I mean hasn't changed for me. You're still watching that dry. It got so much better. It's not like it's not it's not as like SCI anymore. This through things with a bad. You haven't really hard time saying things are bad like someone releases song or she'll come out and Margaret was automatically. Like, it's amazing. Because if it's something that like, I stand I'm not gonna say, it's bad. But if it's something I don't stand on the first one to say, it's bad heart of being true. Stan is like accepting the not everything's gonna be great. Like, I think I'm literally the most emotionally invested STAN of Taylor swift. And like I can say like reputation like wasn't the best reputation wasn't her best. But I still think it's better. It's still better than grenades new album. And even though I was. This is really great. But still Taylor's always going to be better. I mean, I'm not comparing Taylor to Arianna. That's comparing apples to oranges. I'm comparing to Hillary that better version of herself, which I know she could be right chose to stand. It's like, I know she can do her perogatives in releasing reputation wasn't to put out an amazing album that was like lyrically genius. It was for her to point. Okay point proven. Could we go back to Russia? She told me for those wondering why jackets not here. She is go into the check twos. Tease gun again. Well, yes, Jackie is within sixty days of her wedding date. So she is now eligible to get her marriage license, and that's what her and soccer doing this morning. Licensed to Ed they are licensed wet if you wanna check out her Instagram. She looked so cute. She was so key to the little Parisian. She looked like an ad for on Benda. Yes. She really did. That's what they needed to nocco Baker up yet. Bengals jackie. No. That's what it sounded. Like. Sorry. We're just like all over the place. Getting ourselves biting ready yesterday went to Dr Sharon guilty for boat talks. That's why I just looked so happy right now, you know, like like claiming from ear to ear. I need to go to easy. I've never met her. I've never been what I now. Because like, I don't know what I would get occas your perfect tonight. No, two young Tapu talks yet you have gotten into twenty one. And then crush, your eyebrows. I do I kind of would like a nose job. Oh, stop you. But that's what I'm just getting crazy. You know, what you don't need? You just need to brush your did today. I know, but I'm just waiting until Jackie's. Yeah. To get them done, but they're out of control. Like, you're Georgia the bliss like they're crazy. It's like giving me every time. I look in the mirror Yukari de Levin. No because hers like work when you use something hysterical. Were those were live. I know when I was in college, I had an internship at Esquire magazine, and it was horrible like literally it lasts more than a month. And I was stuck in the closet with like, all the other interns. And like they were also happy to be there. And like I was like I didn't even like Asha Miami here and the whole day was just like unpacking packing backing messenger. It was just like never any Richard logging. Excel. And there was this guy there. It was like the head intern and intern gap. No, and he was like so passionate about Vince fashion. Like he is was so happy to be here. Like he had when out of his way like his resume with his hand painted on the lobe and got the job and like a change his life. And he was just like really meant to be there. Whereas like, I was just like somehow got the somehow got the job, and we were just talking about celebrities, and like he was like a little bit of a know it all the head intern. And we were talking about paper towns is that what it was that movie that? Yeah. And I was like it was so bad. I hate car de Levin. He's like car Adela Evine. It's Kara devilish ING and. Those like if no way Geno all Cheeto mid boss, subways of those. But I know Kara del of and he was an every time I say her name, I think of devolution that is so funny. I was just like you can pretend to know at all here in this closet because like you do but out here in the real world bitch. It's cardillo. No, totally literally will never forget. That is. So it was the one thing I learned at Esquire magazine. Well, learn something that's not true. Yeah. So I've just been doing so many like plea wedding like aesthetics, you know. He and so I wish should I did, you know, you never got braces. Right. No. It was everyone in highschool got braces. And it was a thing. But like we did it even though we both had like buck teeth, and like gap-tooth bitches, but braces wouldn't have made these teeth shorter. He no it's just that my teeth or too big. Yeah. And like banging your teeth are fucking huge bigger. I am more buck teeth, you have more things. But when you were in high school at getting braces was like the most social suicide low, and then it like, bracelets, and you uploaded a photo in the racism. I remember when my friends gotta braces off, and I was like that you'll be better with braces only guide. But so now, it's like I wish I was going to high school. Now, it was like there's so many alternatives. Nobody has the metal anymore, and it's so much less expensive. Like, it's not fair. You know, I know I know that I'm going to be that like older woman who has to wear Brown says sing the now it's not as deadly thanks to companies like candid co that. It's basically invisible which perfect for me. So candid makes clear liners. That's what they're called that are central to your house. You don't have to leave blessed and they're cuts might specifically to straighten your teeth. So the liners fic- fixed crooked teeth crowding protrusion and gaps. So I do have a little bit of a gap. Jackie has crooked bottom teeth. I think we could all benefit. I really honestly I kind of really want and like you have to wear them all the time. Or is it like you can wear them as much. So the modeling kit retails for ninety five dollars you purchase that and then they send it to your home. So you can make the impressions of your teeth. And then they send it back for like the perfect mold like what if you just only wear it like while, you're sleeping. Nobody knows. I mean. It would just take longer. Right. But you know, what that's not a bad idea about idea. So you guys can can get straight teeth to you're one step away from getting straighter whiter teeth. Take advantage of candidates risk free modeling kit guarantee. Plus when you use our dedicated link candid, co dot com slash toast. You'll save twenty five percent on your modeling kit. That's kitted code dot com slash toast to get twenty five percent off your modeling kit. Candid coat dot com slash two might use it. Now. I really like I feel on just about my big teeth. We'll get no they're not big. They're just like buck their buck. And you have a small face it. It's a lot. That's I never smiling with my teeth. Let me say I always smile like I looked so I can't get a good smiling face. But like, that's usually how it's mile with back when I had a big fat face used to do that. Because I smile just made them my face bigger right now that I have this snatched to the gods. Face can smile with my teeth, and I prefer it. I still can't smile with my. I've always been told to have a beautiful smile. Really? I've never been. I've never been told that once people say have beautiful eyes. I've Judy colored is no he says to me, but I've actually been. Lemony. I just have like a lovely smile. Ready? Because about Iran, Puckett's listeners don't know. Oh fuck. So Jackie usually picks stories which left me like with extra work while I was making my morning duty. The only reason I made a morning Giudice. Because literally I never ate so much my life today because I joined last night would you last night with the kids, and I went to dinner, I forget that you're a college. I went to dinner, and then, you know, one thing led to another and we went to a bar, and it just got really drunk. We like met so many of these cute guys. And then like I was in the heart of Jewishness in Murray hill, and like the one guy that hit it off with wasn't Jewish. So it's like you've never leave their house. Let alone you never meet men. The one time we send you out on an adventure. You're not you meet someone who's on eligible is it important to marry someone Jewish, you know, it's like it's it's a call dealbreaker right for like once I heard that. I was like, oh, I gotta go so wasted. So much time. Talks is supposed to help with migraines. And I really do get terrible my grades. But because I'm still Bruce fucking headache headache now. Yeah, that's annoying because it keep trying to express myself with my eyebrows. Dr Z wouldn't wouldn't allow it? I love her. I could spend all day at her office. Like you really like. She never comes back time. We leave our share like there's nothing else. I need the omega easy. No. I was actually thinking about bringing bringing dot THEO to Dr geeze yesterday. But then I realized that that's kind of unsanitary it's like a medical facility that you're like it's at one point an animal right as much as we refuse to believe. Right. And just like to say that he's human. So by the way, I forgot to tell you guys, but you already know Juliette Owens note. Julia porter Kelsey owns from key are joining us. They will be riding shortly. And we will hop on. Like, I just I gotta talk to them. I've gotta talk Margot it all so different. Now, as oh, I can't believe it like wars over, and it's like, I never thought I'd see the day that like, I'm actually shipping shipping them. You know, it's really I was watching last week. And it was it's really crazy. How like my alliances can change in like five minutes. Well, so I thought that exact same thing about Justin Bieber and Haley. No, I always like Justin in Halle. And then that by the way, we never spoke about it. But that article I'm sure you spoke out yesterday. I loved it. What you want? Watch us for. No, I didn't actually really meant. Because I wanted to see. Margo, but I was just in class all day, but article made me like ship them, and and so on and I was thinking I'm like either don't believe that. They were celebrate really publicists move. You know, like making him look empathetic and relatable or like, I just misjudge them. Maybe both a think a little bit of both who's definitely like an image thing. But it's also like that. I definitely believe that he has like Masur demons mature, and like she seems really really has it together. And I don't know why it's because she grew up in a house with the less famous Baldwin who really she could maintain she had like a very normal life until she was fifteen right. Started trying to be a model, right? Like when she was like, probably like twelve and thirteen and she went to like Miley Cyrus concert like who died probably like got her backstage passes. And like she got cool opportunities like that. But other than that. I think she was a regular DAL in public school except that high dad was enough girl for a little bit. Okay. Like, but that was it. But I don't believe that. He was celebrate. That was like my only take away. And then also when she said that she's never touched to drug. I'm so she's touched one. But she hasn't seemed like a drug either. But like, she probably smokes pot like with. Really? I don't think model smoke pot and makes me oh that is so true cocaine. Okay. Well, without further ado, it is an absolute pleasure. Honor and humbling experience deliver the fast five stories that you need to know before you wake up and take a bite out of your morning toast. Okay. I from page. Six cognac was going to quote, gay fi that fourteen million dollar my auntie condo for him. She don't. Yeah. But the deal through. Well, he pulled out. Here's why residents of the Lux fighting a house. That's where I was going to be in Miami makes be somewhat relieved that they don't have to have Connie west neighbor after all as patriots reported west bought a fourteen million dollar apartment for his wife Kim Kardashian for Christmas, but then pulled out of the deal. Now, we're told that when west I visited the condo. He over her. He was overheard saying that he planned to unify the place a reference to his name. It seems west wasn't impressed by the energy of the so-called billionaire beach bunker, which we're told is often used by globetrotting residents for just a couple of months per year Eden. So sources said that the one percent of residents are quite content with a place in it's unjustified state obsessive aesthetic aesthetic. No. But they said s that like a shorter version. It was that I know like. The noun. All right. The estate west is legendary for his adjustments. He masterminded a four year twenty million dollar remodel of hidden Hills, California home which was reportedly involved in switching the front and rear sides of the place. He well. I didn't know that he also famously took offence to a bar at his wedding. Declaring that it looked like it was from Texas. So he saw it in half nailed would to it. What Texas not? So apparently, they thought he was going like Yay. It up. Yeah. And go crazy like Donna lobby and they no longer wanted him. So they're kind of relieved they were happy. But he pulled out of the deal. I wonder why people because came to want it. Oh, by the way, like she doesn't. She doesn't need an apartment or whatever and Miami. She just doesn't they don't go to Miami that much he needs a place in New York or they have one. Sorry. They do Canada's. Yeah. But like no fence to the people of Miami. But like man is really glam. It's really knock land. I usually think of so. And you got people this year. And I was like shell shocked by like how not going Scotland now is land on like me. But he used to be very Saatchi house glam, right? But if you look in your Sashi house glam, I consider a trashy. No. Because just anyone could say, they're really. Yeah. I thought it was exclusive. No, it's not. So I really don't feel like Miami is the best branding for Kim. I apologize to the Miami toasters. We're probably mad. But I'm just saying I'm sorry. You guys still live at like on a beach. So you're you're winning. It's very Calabasas with a K and New York City. Yeah. Totally. And honestly, I wish wanna code actions would move to New York. I know, but they would never because that would just disrupt the whole this. This'll be like me moving to LA just when celebrities who live in New York are the most like down to earth and wanna remain like have a normal life. Let go to trader Joe's and like not really be harassed right? But if you live in LA, like you're very much here for the celebrity paparazzi life, so dimensions. Because that was built on their today are, and that's did you see the Cardi B Harper's bazaar story. Did you read it? No, very interesting stuff. Well, so the cheese said. She had postpartum. She did say she had postpartum. But just like she was just so interesting. Also, the article was so lower at news story. It was like her getting her Nelson in the Bronx. And it was all about come back to that school. It was cool. I think you should really I think you'd enjoy it read it actually read like I read the whole thing. What do you think I do? And I'm okay. Well, moving on Arianna grenade blast Grammy producer. Now. You're lying about me. She says are Anna grenades. Slammed producer Ken Erlich for his explanation. As to why she's not performing on Sunday show in the Twitter threat on Thursday evening. The pop star twenty-sixth specifically called out an article where Erlich was quoted saying she wasn't able to pull together a performance in time. He basically blamed her saying she couldn't which is true because she's rehearsing for tour right now. So anything she can use one of those to her. She were her sponsors this. I've kept my mouth shut. But now, you're lying about me. I can pull together a performance overnight. And you know, that can it was when my creativity and self expression were stifled by you, then decided not to attend. So she's nominated for. Best pop solo performance forgotten women and best pop vocal album for sweetener. She continues. I offered three different songs. It's about collaboration. It's about feeling supported it's about art and honesty, not politics, not doing favors or playing games. It's just a game, y'all. And I'm sorry. But that's not what music is to me. I wonder what they wanted her thing. Right. So how that God is a woman because she's nominated for and she's like, no, I'm over it. But they also have had people do medleys like she could have done a multitude of songs. That's what she was doing. But then they wanted to choose it. I mean at the end of the day, I do think you performance on your nominated for and if you can't agree to that like you shouldn't have ever agreed to perform because like the billboard and all those bullshit awards like that's where people do pyrotechnics and dump shame play collapse. But the Grammy's is all about collaborating like old and new artists like haven't Arianna performance like Aretha Franklin if she were still alive, right or playing on your non before like the Oscars. There's five performances it's a songs that are nominated. No, I understand Grammy's is top tier? It's not. But they want to separate themselves. From people's fucking choice awards. Okay. That's fair. But I don't know. I'm kind of here for like Taylor and Arianna both like they got both. Gotcha. Like what runs our vocal album? Oh my God. Are you fucking kidding me? What how did Oriana ground? He get gypped. She was nominated for two albums for a fucking trash album. Real it really was not that bad. No. It just wasn't going to say it was really the year of Arianna Guerande. Like, she didn't get sure it was very ungrand date. And all of a sudden she released came out after Grammy nominations came out next year. We'll be oriented grenades. Granny's side her timing was wrong. I'm sorry in no way to cheat get screwed she was offered to perform and got nominated for two songs when her album was bad. I know you don't want to say I love her sweetener was back. I didn't think it was that bad. Plenty we listened to it like for hours, but we were on tour bitch. We will listen to anything on tour. We're bored. Goodnight and go. That's not even. I'm gonna you just reference a song added dog on the albums. I agree. Justice for imaging heap. Justice very know she's getting those royalties or you kidding just as pretty much, and he it over gentle song that imaging he hiding seek. See I was gonna as wars. Known amount. It's a craziest. I'm they played it in the OC when we're Saddam. Yeah. It's such a good song, touchy. And what can you think? Now. I can't remember. How goes okay, hold on. Let me just no. I can't remember the melody. I can't remember the lyrics hide and seek lyrics. Leyritz? Sorry lyrics. Oh, yeah. Seek true. And so now I remember oh. Weird by. Good stuff. It's good stuff down emission ruling in the royalties. That is undergoing mad royalties. Yeah. But so much say much. Well, let's did much. Jason derulo. Ruined it. Yeah. I remember more Royal TS. So back to arrive at all love her thing about the Grammys is that they command respect they have museum that we just we consider the Grammy's billboard American music people's choice because there's just so many in their performances that they invite every fucking singer two Grammys is now deciding their prestigious haven't museum, they have lots of important, they do important work for music education. Like, let's be real they're they're respectful. You can't just come into it ever you want. That's fair. Also, I just like have so many good feelings about this year's Grammys to this. There's a lot of people missing out on mainly the whole Taylor of it. All right, Casey graves, she's like doing everything with this week, which makes me think they're good grades graces as well. As Luke homes. I need him to Grammy. Like, he's he's a Grammy award winning artist. I just know it in my heart and he's performing. Oh, yeah. Wait unika. And presenting we're gonna see so much of him. I'm just like I love him so much and like, I just hope that ever the grandmas. Nice to. Okay. Are you kidding? He's gotta be. He's honestly inscribed on in terms. Amazing. He's so funny. He literally who's storing. He started store he's like all right? Well, show started doing just worked out if you can believe it. Nobody him, and I hope that like there. I feel like a lot of I respected. I think a lot of celebrities are shady from the south and do country music. Yeah. So even though it's really like a pop mainstream event. I think that there are people who are gonna be I just want to go with him and protect him. Also, he has happy and hopeful. They're protecting. I wanna see what she's gonna wear me too. She posted like designer stuff yesterday. She was like don't really TJ Grammy's him, and I have a fucking show in Huntington, which I'm excited for but I'm missing out on the Grammy's. Honestly, like, that's a good thing. Just because like I will personally like it'd be over. I can handle. Yeah. Exactly. When he invited me. I got a pit. I don't think I could do. Yeah. No, totally. So it's better nominated for new artist khloe tally. Okay. Dona her is also nominees out on the which is crazy where easy. Yeah. I really wanted to meet you just need it has a country artist ever won best new artist. Casey. Did she did when she did? She won best new artist. Yes. She did. Right. And she's cute little neon Katcha stress. I don't remember. She really has fucking amazing style. Meal like the partnership. No, she cheese such like a love her. I love her to what do you think she's going to saying on the year? So it's really I feel slow-burn. She did say to me on the red carpet when I interviewed her that it is her favorite song. I know she's say that because she said it just comes out. So he's to me that was talking to her. I was so funny. Okay. Did you know that she said it was so funny? He I watched it next story. I know would never get chosen by Jackie. So I chose it. Because I didn't realize I was sitting next to my fellow glee who what nine Rivera says there's no beef with glee co star Liam shell. Well, obviously not now. So there's a parenting, no bad blood between naira and formerly star Liam shell. During Wednesday's episode of watch live with Andy Cohen. We're Andy Cohen always answered ask important questions Rivera was asked by a caller about liking Machel's engagement photo on Instagram as well as well as where they stand about. God. Sorry hard question Rivera was asked by. Caller, about liking engagement posts on Instagram as well as about where the rumored frenemies currently stand. Okay. That wasn't a real sentence. I did not speak to her. But everyone sees Instagram rate said after goes any Cohen said the double tap was like waving a white flag. We are said I don't think there was any beef. We've got candid about Michelle and her twenty sixteen book. Sorry, not sorry dreams mistakes and glowing up this what she said one of the writers said that leeann I would like to sides of the same battery and that about sums up we are both strong willed and competitive not with each other. But with everyone, and that's just not a good mixture of European leeann, I definitely weren't the best of friends, and I will ever sit on a couch, and he came together again. But the rumors of a feud were blown out of proportion. She also wrote recently celebrated her about party level up. So I feel like if inner book where like you're gonna be thirsty because you want people to buy it and like after glee nine really didn't do anything else. She's really clinging on. I feel like if there wasn't. She would have been exploiting it at every cost because like to make headlines, and it's what she can Clinton too. So her saying that really wasn't. It'll be I actually believe you do. Yeah. Yeah. I think like after the whole Corey amount of at all things just came into perspective. And like, I think everybody's fine. Yeah. Also, like, I mean, I say this all the time like not everyone is made to be friends. Right. And like they were like trying to be leading ladies on a show. Like, there's going to be some drums. I mean, one one of them was trying to be leading lady. One of them was the show was the racial Barry show. It really should've just been called rby. Yeah. And there was no competition because they're literally was no competition. Like, it was the richer better show. Yeah. She didn't get a bigger role as time went on. And by the way, she was importing character. I love Santana. Maybe as Phineas so cute in love traffics. And you so funny. Yeah. But she was no Michelle, and she didn't know I mean, just in terms of talent in terms of talent and just in terms of amount of airtime. Yeah. Fucking lovely, Michelle. She's like so happy with precious with Zandi Zandi and like her she her number Roberts. They were all go from privilege. They're like best friends. Join C Garcia Swisher. Yeah. They were all in Maui is that what they went on her about why. Why go to wipe about threat party? I feel Machel's like not fun. No, no looked a relaxing one. Cause she just like wellness Wednesdays eats juice. She literally like eats litter leaves. Yeah. Like her wellness make like a broth with like nothing and into it's just on her. She when she does her wellness Wednesdays on her Instagram like goes into her fridge. I actually had to tap. Tap we next door. I'm really confused about this Wendy was from each six. Wendy Williams is quote super scared. She will lose her show sources said that the soupy she's on the air right now and accounting overshadow, I'm pretty sure to health thing. Okay. So we're said that the beloved daytime TV host who has been absent from her pomace syndicated show since December for a number of reasons is unsettled by the apparent success of her stand-ins, and she's become a concern that she won't be able to make it back on the air in time to save her gig. That's literally how I feel every time that you have ever only DARREN'S of may guess she better not show. But also you haven't been gone since December. That's a long time ury quote. She's super scared in ain't no that's not true. I was in Mexico twice. What? Oh, sorry, never mind. I thought you said you have been here since. Quote, super scared anxious insider watching Fillon host Nick cannon being a huge hit with audiences tougher her. They're already starting to mess with the format. It's like watching them. Screw around with her baby Ken filled in for Williams of Monday through Wednesday this week and one positive reviews. I love in the canon me to actually find him to be hilarious. And I like that he stood up for Kevin Hart. American pie. Actor Jason Biggs hosted Thursday's edition of the show and other guest hosts are book through February fifteenth. Wow, shit the risen for William's absence are somewhat murky her family and January that she had been hospitalized because of complications related to her grave's disease. She also fracture shoulder in December. And she hosted her last appearance on the show wearing a sling. But there have been persistent rumors that she's also personal difficulties involving husband and the executive producer for show. Kevin hunter Williams seemed to address that issue. Oh, sorry. William seem to address that issue in a conversation with cannon and cannon related to the programs audience that willing to told him that she wanted to speak as a family unit and her Kevin and their son little Kevin are good. But for all our insecurities. Williams. Can't rush back now to retake. The rain says a source. She's in no state to get back to the anytime soon rep, sir. William's, respond to multiple requests for comment. Wasn't there something with her husband and woman yet? No, there's just like a lot of cheating going on. She also fainted on stage. Remember that was scariest thing that was so scary. I just feel like she. She too has demons, you know, she has demons, and I like her show a lot I still like really upset with her for what she Rachel Lindsay dirty. That was like so just unfair not cool, and I feel like a little like bias against her. But for the most part of really like her show, and she's very honest, and like she is friends with celebrities. But then also talk shit about them and that is hard to do. Yeah. So I actually really like her, and I think she's refreshing daytime, and I want her show to be successful. But I think it is successful. But she's not there right now. So I want her to fight those demons and get back to work, but I also love Nick cannon did a post on. Who was it talking about was it Kevin Spacey? I dunno. It was on the times movement. But it was after something big happened. I believe Kevin Spacey. And it was just like a real honest thing. He was like, yeah. We're all clear now. But like we all knew. Yeah. Let us take some responsibility for the fact that we worked in an industry and worked for producers who we knew were bad people. Yeah. Anytime I self included like, well, he's taking responsibility. And then someone said something like it kind of felt like he might have something coming out like this is like a PR move, and then came out and another but that put like a little pit inside my stomach, but for the most part, it was like a really honest candidate on the whole thing. And I really appreciate it. I actually really like, by the way, are you going to watch the Kelly Clarkson talkshow, of course, I love her. Of course, you know. I love the canon because he takes any fucking job. They give him and does his best funny. The hosts that every Dame show than singer. But it's the big show. It's so stupid. So I've never watched it. But I know it's stupid. Every time it gets a mass just because like, you know, I'm curious like it's never anyone like it's never actual recognizable. I don't know the person. Right. And they supposed to be singers. I don't understand like, whatever. We have one more story. That's it. I know I'm kind of can't even remember together thirty minute. When did we do whatever before we do, but taste morning toast is brought to US culture skill shares. An learning community for craters with more than twenty five thousand classes in design business more you'll discover countless ways to feel your curiosity creativity and career, take classes and social media marketing mobile photography, creative writing. Or even Australian Margaret sounds like seventy times more useful than your actual college degree, totally. Whether you're looking to discover, new passion start, aside hustle or gain new professional skills. Skill shares there to help you learn and Dr joy, join the millions of students already learning on skill share today with a special offer for our listeners. You can get two months of skill share for free. That's right skill offering the morning to listeners two months of unlimited access to over twenty thousand classes for free to sign up skill share dot com slash morning toast. Again, that's skill share dot com slash morning. Toast to start your two months now skill share dot com. Slash morning. It's actually so smart get maybe you wanna learn something like struggle mobile photography. No also actually in a creative writing class. But I dropped it. It because it was way too much work in real school. Like, it was like eight to ten short stories eight to ten paid short stories like once a week that created ten pages is not a short story. Final story. Some positive news out of a terrible tumultuous story. Hacienda healthcare to close after incapacitated patient gave birth. So a nursing Osceola healthcare was arrested and charged with sexually assaulting patient, but the tonal long term care facility where incapacitated patient was sexually assaulted and birth will be closed. The company said Thursday, I'll see Healthcare's board of directors, quote has come to an understand that it is simply not sustainable to continue to operate our intermediate care facility for the intellectually disabled, the company said in a statement, it is a skilled nursing facility that will stay open a former nurse at into health. Nathan Sutherland, thirty six was arrested January twenty second and charged with sexual assault. He has since pleaded not guilty LL. The case going to might December after twenty nine year old woman who has been a patient CNN for years went into labor and gave birth already said. So I when I read this. Yeah. Like injustices will be but then at the same time like Dera patients who rely on that facility and the thing that if they're Goto was to close the facility out. That we all my go totally wear like like, I it fishy know if that was like, the response are definitely like a lot of families, whether I'm sure they'll relocate I know, but it's just like everybody going through enough with having someone in long term care facility. Like now, they have to up and move like it's torture in little weird that they chose to to shut it too. It must be like really fucking bad. Yeah. Like, there's one hundred percents something that we do not know. And honestly, I don't wanna know historian and of itself gives me like honestly, Nathan Sutherland deserves to broaden prison literature. I can't like said he's not guilty like high evidence. Yeah, there's a baby. But did he say reason for mentally ill or whatever? I don't know nor do I care he's guilty yet that place just seems like a cesspool of sadness, and I'm happy that it's gone. But like there's so many facilities like that. Like, I mean, it's always happening in SVU. So I know that by the way, that's really is like an episode. Yeah, they're gonna do it for sure I think they already always recreate like always recreate like things that have happened in the world. Now that I'm. Stories if I went into the and you're looking slim Honey with thi-. Thank you. Oh my God. I got dressed in two seconds this morning. I like what you wake up to what time. Do you wake up when you have to put on makeup? So I try and get like ten fifteen right? I've about a twenty minute commute. Right. So like nine forty five. So you wake up at my arm and eat thirty and get out of bed at nine. Okay. Well, so I tried to wake up any forty five today. And I like I snooze till nine fifteen forty five. Forty five hundred fifteen. Yeah. That's a normal law waking I'm fifteen I thought it was silly. And you have to get up. Yeah. Doing things became big clans. No, I could. But I don't want to joining. Plus, we have shows shows in Huntington first one is sold out. But I did I had like thirty tickets for myself because I thought I had a lot of friends and family coming but didn't. So I release them back for sale. So if you go to the website, you might be able to get tickets to the eight o'clock show, but there are still tickets four o'clock show on firstly Nobis tickets. And then also I meant to tell you guys yesterday we did presale for the second or third Houston show today. I will do sell for everyone to check my Instagram stories for the link, hopefully, they'll sell out to that'd be epic. But head to grow com going all over the country. We've got Florida coming up thoughts. Woods I think adding another show and Foxwoods we got Dallas Houston Irvine without brea where else Tampa, Greensboro Baltimore Bill. Yeah. I'm actually really excited for Greensboro Greenville leg for one reason, why tell me so we're doing two shows the day we land in one of them. I get them. Confused. It's North Carolina South Carolina there right next to each other. I don't know which one is which they both have the same name, Greensboro, we Lennon Greensboro, would you show at another? No, just one. And then we drive that night to Greenville or whatever the stride because it's a long commute and tour. I got us like a mini tour bus a little sprint term out of it cited, and it's gonna be like Lamm with Donald again, we're going to be like rich. I'm going to film a music video in there. We. What's money Cardini? Okay. Just be like. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Like fake money, or let's just one hundred dollars and single. But then go back to the Bank hundred dollars back. Pick them up and make sure we don't miss a dollar. So I haven't been on tour for quite a minute. I know short leg in January which was like so successful for me. Like, just creatively. It was her best light yet. Like, she's just started off in Columbus. Cincinnati. I forget which natty and just like did a great show after not being on the road for a while. And that was really confident and like usually do Djelic it can only go downhill from there. And then let Columbus I did even better. And then fuck in Detroit hit out of the park. I think Detroit was craze get no, Detroit was so awesome. I love doing theater, it's like comedy clubs make me feel so much more relaxed and really get to practice my craft and then being really intimate right and food in the green room, which I love. Yeah. There's club food is the shit this shit. They've such good fries. But I mean, there's nothing like walking out onto theater that like literally like actual famous people have been on if feels awesome personally, I like the because like makes my job so much easier shit together. All you gotta do this weekend. When we go to the paramount theater in Huntington. I went there for a concert to see Casey Musk's to Alba ago. Really? Yes. It's a real place. The Countess was just there is nothing like walking onstage at theater like that. Makes you feel like a big I think they must've saying on this day. Every time I go to educate. She's been sniff the couch in the judge in Detroit. She'd been there the day before we were sitting on the couch. You're like you think he's out here. I found out that there was a much bigger greener right next door with her. She probably hung out. They tell you that. I did do a nice thing for you. When I did get us to Casey musk graves tickets and meet and greets being green. I think in Dallas. I meant to tell everyone I meant to tell you the so I had since become just obsessed with her tour, and I met her manager manages, how did you something really nice for us. I have now the opportunity to give away to Casey Musk's tickets to the Dallas Nashville shows, they asked me if I wanted to do giveaway pitcher which shows I'm like, what are Tosi cities and going to be the one. So I figured I'm not sure yet how to enter the giveaway, but it's you guys. Now, I'm getting way too tickets to the Dallas tickets Nashville show, just because I thought it'd be cool four tickets and total and the show we're going to be at how that is. So nice of you know, I'm excited. I'm also tended to talk to see and Julia, let's let's do that. Okay. So Juliet quarter Kelsey Owens wars over siesta key when we cut this week's episode because Jackie action recap able also ask I think Juliet algebra up. Right. There's a lot going on since last time we saw Juliet which was literally one week ago. So if you're on the YouTube stream fairly comment for them. Also, if you're not go to the Instagram Liikanen their bought of questions there will pull from there. We'll be back in about two minutes. Go to the bathroom get us. Now, pick your nose picking by what you gotta do. We'll see by minutes by. Okay. Ladies and gentlemen, gentlemen. We are back because wars over and can't believe that I'm sitting here doing press with Juliet and Kelsey together. What year are you going to hang in hotel room together? Best friends now, where do we stand sitting next to each of Adams about same, bud? We're that close. Yeah. That's what we're seeing in the show. You guys are starting to gravitate, but this was like a year ago. Right. Yeah about so where have we come in a year? Fire a long way. Yeah. I mean, we have to see each other all the time. So I think we're both like we've matured ice in unless there's something going on that we don't like about each other. But once we got over all like the Garrett, Alex. I think that like you're not into Garrett, and Alex you don't have a right, right? Your talents either right now, right? You and followed him he replied to a comment saying the action. Why God guys here? What's so? Doughnuts. Okay. So when he blocks me, I'll star sixty seven blocks, your you. Early blocked me. He literally went to like the phone store in blocked my numbers. I can't even start sixty seven. How you wouldn't? You wouldn't you do just broke up with him. Oh, yeah. It was. I really did was come here. He was like don't go to New York again. And I'm I'm going shut us, and we just making so many decisions left. And right. I know I love it. Been gonna stick? Yeah. I suppose I don't wanna be that girl that like says like we're over and then like it back together. 'cause you are that girl. I know I know, but it love you. You have at this time. I'm trying to change. Yeah. I'm still which better under the nice Jewish boys in New York would love sick. You. I'm doing to me. I. She's possible. Sorry. Michel sorry. What about you? Are you single right now are, you know, you'll so if my wife friend from this season, we're seeing some curious. Yeah. Yes. So he comes in time next week. Now, can you clarify what happened on the beach because it wasn't clear. Did you just make out or did you have sex? God didn't make oh Evans. Because turn literally looks like we're making like someone says something that's kind of like. I'm finding out stuff that happened on the beach about, but that's okay in real life. Like, you might have been able to get away with it. But because you're on the show. I can't with the screw posted it on Snapchat. Which was like, oh my God. I know Jared you like friends. We're good. Good. Good. Just like keeping my distant. I like him too. I agree. And what happened to that other guy from last season was so cute. But like no one care about him. Carson carson. He's so Kim thinking long. Yeah. Yeah. You didn't like him. Oh, no. Look, I I love him as a friend. But he's like he's too much to sweep for me to challenge not to link set train. That's tough. Please do such a good my guys. He's so cute. Show. Music. Your boyfriend. I'm at him. I'm not him for year under like five or six years now. And one of my best guy friends is next door neighbor introduced us, and he listened to know would he live? He's originally from Saint Louis, and then he lives in Arizona right now. Oh, damn. This going where do you live now 'cause you were in LA? Yeah. It is like a year ago. So yeah. And now I'm living back in Florida. Okay. But she travels all the time. Yeah. Never for work just for conscious content, content and content. Never sleeps. What I into this month? So hopefully, get some shoots in their editorial. Or commercial Marshall commercial is where the money at it. Aditorial? There's money though, at this point on commercial good with it heart or die. Hopefully, jay. Do that makes money. Makes line producers worked on that show. It's really good. And what did they say anything like the girls, they literally hooked me up with Kolpos manager? Lunch. And I was like really hung over that day. So I probably could have done better. Yeah. It's it's where so what do you guys plans for fashion week? What we're going to go Poulsen close later. We're going to go do another interview after this, and it won't be as fun or light hearted. Oh, absolutely. Not. Yeah. You'll have to be really on. We're going to. Yeah. I need to you guys about something. And I feel really passionate about it. I was thinking about starting a petition to either big problem like is one of my favorite shows like I'm just obsessed with it from so many for so many reasons, but I'm really like to appoint where I can't deal with paulie anymore. Okay. For ethical reminds the worst. Yeah. He's a bad person. He's that beginning funny. The Susan no rule. I hated him when he called khloe thout twice like I was done with Massey's. Dinner hub like bitch that one million times it's silver full. There's a special place in boys girls fat like and paulie like their leader. You know, just doesn't care. He's always been like that ever going to get off the show because he's Alice's cousin related. No. They said they're not there. Second cousins moved. He has run like Hayes. His dad is Alex is dad's cousin that's half. Third cousins. I don't. Probably not and you have to want the not damaging the show such a good question for you guys. This is from mad Mitch on Instagram you both kissed and other things with Garrett in Alex. How does it compare who's better? Okay. I think it depends on who you have more feelings for. Yeah. Like, I would say, I think. I think. Not garrett. I don't think that I'll occc there's. So you're watching we're watching. Carrick has the other comment. This last episode someone made I don't know what I was getting to was he's not a good kisser. I understood my God, we can't unless it was like nervous when I stem and stuff or I don't know if you intimidate once we did it a couple of times there was a chance. Yeah. Yeah. I've another question from gate. It's bella. Mary kill. She's so cute. You do Mary kill Alex. Brandon garrett. This is hard because you're just angry right now. Kill alex. That's it. I don't wanna kill him. I don't ever want to see him. But it's gonna be so hard the show. She's got it to me. It's like you really wanna break up and have to see each other all the time. And I'm like what else to say with you. Because I see you can you get to a place where like you just don't care anymore, and it's fine. I can getting there like my friend told me like you're just going to get to the point where you just had enough. Yes. Opposite with me. Yeah. We're doing a gallon time. What are you going to? Oh, no, no. Your boyfriend won't be a town. No was gonna go you talk. Let me doing to your fuck Mary hill. Okay. I would fuck Garrett Mary BG and kill Alex. Honestly, I'll take even go friend compare parents nice house. So like for sure Mary. Okay. This is a question from Toby and Sanyal August joins us or visually at are you in an friends anymore? It's not what happened. No, we're friends. We hang time. Yes. I'm hanging out for hours, but she lives here. Yes. That's why aren't she's s law. She got a job in the finance world so reality and finally killing it don't mix. Fortunately, yeah. Also you in Amanda, our best friends, and I love her. I love she's a friend. He really is good friend. He's like go through that. Yeah. I feel like there was definitely a piece that we miss with the breaking of the nose because you just doesn't seem like the kind of Gallow goes around pudgy people will bring. She is also where he's very old footage coming from big. Sending out between Karen, Alex. We never saw that. I know about that wasn't on the show then that like. Like lot of these care. I didn't even know what I. Thank you. Cut it. They had it on film. They never used because she wasn't on the show. She used to make fun of the show. Yeah. Like oh. You guys are stupid like your little I really don't like living in you're doing nothing all that. I'm dying all coming to me now. So when you all watch the other like when you guys had that show when you all watching it out because I was like is that I would die. The one that is this. Okay. So only like three of us were there. Kelsey was there. Gary around each other all the time getting off ops because it is it is offering a my life. Like, I'm gonna like this. Yeah. And I don't know why. But it was just meal. Amanda, and Alex Paul Carson was there are some was there or. Getting included also. Oh are the tweets real like when you after your these? Are. So like so fiery about it. Like when you watch all this stuff back all the motions. Right. Yeah. Like, I did you hear stuff and people talking shit on. You're like, oh, you said that. I live for the live tweets to always refreshing that might hyperventilating tweeting. We saw him to Miami. He gets mad at us. This trip to Miami this week is so putting it seems like everyone is literally to accept real. I was just like because I know like I would have gone I'm gonna got into our. Yeah. Those wise decisions. So until next up associates. I don't really care about other people's issues if they don't involve me like khloe cares about everyone. We know. But that's her role as not Stor book could win on trip. Like how much would blow up in my face? I would you wanted to even be there. That's Karen, God didn't know carrying going to be the next room to celebrate you because we have it all honestly, I can't stand her an I don't see that. There will ever be a time where I like her. I didn't and I have to show he didn't even more. No for you so wrong, and she like pretend she's like, I don't know what she's talking about like, I don't want. And then she says. Ramming housing ten. Yes. Literally, like, make up your mind. She talks like, you know, like those made for TV movies have used to watch when we were sixteen year olds like with the click. Yep. I talked to that be into died when she out but it went to question last season. I feel like you definitely were in the villain role. You definitely did. You get a lot of hate from. What are? Yeah. Was about it was like I season two seasons. The first season you at all empathize with Sarah. Who's obviously the Bill now even she's acting like a villain. She chose it choosing. Never like, really militia. She. Yeah. She she just did it just it wasn't like. Yeah. Exactly. Cara has intent to you. She's there to hurt. Yeah. Fulltime lives. He's you know, she doesn't live in jersey agency. So she just comes down to film. She has like this in a chef. We got us key, Mike, please. I know chapter the Tajik that was way around that kitchen know that whole thing was a sham sham. I'm Mark this very profound question. Two boys to blob eleven why is the back of Alex's head so flab. I've never realize on a singer something with the key casts were like people are obsessed like nets level. The questions are very extreme on both sides have an answer to that. Okay. I just know from like things that I know that if you lay a baby town. On like a table for too long their skulls like so soft that enrolls. So could be one time he was laying down on the table. A lot of. I don't know that I'll ask this question. Juliet, you know, you guys have broken out. Now, do never Kurt you. Did you ever just ask Alex by heat continues to talk to cower when it's a guess she's going for coming around? But he's engaging. I know he's engaging. I kind of like bitch. Then let it go. And I'm just the point where I'm tired of bitching and lending ago. You shouldn't even engage. He likes the attention. And he likes to see me, man. He likes Ivey most would be one. And then he likes that he can have whatever he wants. And he thinks he can get Karabakh at all times, by the way, Paul will tell you will all of us care will call Alex randomly out of the blue like what's he doing? Does. He like his new girlfriend. How serious are that? Like straight up told heating. Yeah. Yeah. She'll call him for like years like randomly like, oh, did you gonna girlfriend one a hang out like I don't let still didn't girl. Yeah. I'm telling you. She's literally like a villain from like a teenage she left to go on yet. Her like nonchalant, actually work. All my God. Yeah. How are you? What do you think? Like wise. Citing and like, you're being so heated, and she was so common. She so massing. That's like so are do care. Does this affect you at all? Now, she doesn't care about anyone. There's incident later on the season that same thing. We're gonna do overs like cowardice Ville like also are Karen Garrett real like, I just feel like this. Now, they like. This nicer. When do we start probably April that is so exciting. Yeah. I was at such ready. Why do you feel about constantly being filmed meeting suits? They have amazing bodies. But still skinny girls. Get action. Don't believe. Yeah. This season. We really didn't wear like. I just have to buy clothes all the time. Because I'm able then. Yeah. Can't wear. Now. See me doing it or like at least the same. But together like we have so many like theme parties, I get stuff for doing that. I love her. I love Jessica it didn't hurt next week. Right. What theme party the gala to him? See love. I got guys someone said Greek. So my dress is not even gypsum. I'm going. I'm you'd think it wouldn't be agreed because their house looks like literally everyone's wearing black and gold, and then there's me like in like baby blue. Perriman. And she was like, oh, I figure how like before I went, and I was like, oh, I hate my life. I just like my makeup. What about the khloe of at all? Now that you guys in real life. Now up today, you are close entire are you friendly with Chloe goes. Okay. Yeah. We're good. It's just there's a lot of tension between us at times, especially like watching up. So it's a rough is it hard to move past friends with people then you go back and see somebody from a year ago where they call you like skiing or something. Yeah. It's hard. It was hard for me. But she kind of will reach out to me. And tell me, you know, like not has all passed over like, I'm here for you. All this stuff that khloe is the best at fighting and getting back to has done it in real life. She's not to humble to say, she's on your side. She's like a good friend. I think you've now in real life like now, she's in a really good place in her life relationship. You're just have your when you're not having your meet people all the time when I'm not upset, but she is now like you see on insurance you like books, so good. She's really hugging boyfriend. He's so nice. Like, I said now it's like maybe she'll just exude that happiness onto other kind of Jimmy the drama a little bit. Oh, yeah. Stephanie skull kilter, you still pursuing modeling any lucrative offers has the show helped with that. Or has it hurt? We'll know it's helped. But I think also like I've been so busy like in siesta key, filming. And then also like since then I've been traveling trying to see like family back home and grad surgery in the my dad was in the hospitals. Like, I've had all this crazy stuff that I have had much time to like pursue it. How is your mom doing? She's doing a lot better. She had back surgery after the season. And then so now she's doing a little bit better. This great. I saw that you were in Thailand. Robbie, hey. Yeah. Actually like no hem like he's from well tracks. Lampton siesta key. On the show. I feel like he would try. He was just on van from rolls to now on the honors for shows. But I don't think he's like doing it. I think he's trying to do like create Brin Bella. It's like an agency that brings like different brands and Tigers and influencers to did you take the picture of you. He did with us. So funny guys. I was thinking those like anyone trying to you know, because I'm meeting. I'm like, I'm setting my background boyfriend. I'm telling everyone like. Oh my God. Because I knew I was like Kelsey I was like going into that with a ton of guys like out of the country. I was like this is something I'm gonna clear right off the bat. I like I have a boyfriend while we were there be way friends. It was like to be. Right. Really good question on its from McKenzie. Chaib? How was your first impression changed of one? Another since starting the show now being like best friends. Okay. Okay. I remember Kelsey once told me that she went into the show thinking me, we're going to be best. Yeah. We're we're we're we're like she. She thought we were gonna get along. Great. And then that just backfired. Well, you literally flip with Alex. Women you made fun of me like powder moment. Yeah. Even the Tiki. I don't care about good character actually care can have Alexander and DNA. Not she'll Alex as long as she just like leaves us alone. You know? You know? It anymore actually, New Jersey. Yeah. I told her that. I literally go leave. There's going to be a mainstay like she going to stay on the shape. You're like. Get put into the intro cut to the feeling while she hasn't been yet. Cut her out. Yeah. Yeah. Talks about the tongue every time. I hear it just like want to jump the pool. I mean, it's it's the worst of no because they don't make any fucking says. That's why I was listening to them. And they have the words like, oh, that's what it is. Yeah. It's better to have you met Carley rang. No, have you still been to her tweeted anything? Resurrected knows her song is on. He'll tease alone. Yeah. That's true. Surprise, you wouldn't be more vocal about it. She showed me should be feeling out trying to. Like similar to Natasha Benfield on written on the sewn just will live now. Never not be are things. Yeah. So they like what? Yeah. No. It really just every time. I hear a Mike put my hair in French braids and get to the. Grades of it all at all your guys. French braids khloe is really going to here. We have a bunch of hair girls. Everyone's always wearing rates till fucking hot. I've been on the show. Yeah. Yeah. I work sentence. So I don't really do the breads not only I don't want people to see them. Yeah. Say I have them. But I don't want you to know looking. Click on them, I need haired. If I did I did to my herself. I have to have a lot of hair. I had just not. No. Yeah. Chloe and Kelsey go in and out extension will just catching up another thing about her. She goes in and out taking my sheep liberally uses. My hairdresser by makeup artist. She does a photo shoot with my. Okay. Life. When the girls at Dr barber snitching on you. Lied though. That's not really what happened like my her. Just did not rat on me hurt. Chloe? Chloe's hairdresser was east dropping online conversation with my hairdresser thought it got into khloe just as like your hairdresser. And I'm like. Even need it was that Dr art now it's called fresh at the salon. Ever with not wanting to say that strike did. It'd be such bad for them. That's like hairdressers. Really? You can't talk shit. Yeah. On the Clinton now and get a mayor someone stitching. I'm not telling you anything talks about everything. Actually, the hairdresser really talks to you. Yeah. Did you go? Yeah. All right. Let's one time. Okay. So the key is on TV non is that right? Ninth central question. Sorry, competitive the girls with interim followers because it's it's Incheon rates in it changes every time. Oh, no. All the cats mate. How many do you have? She just had three hundred grant except like two ninety seven. Oh, she'll get there by getting up by then I'll be at three fifty. Let's get let's get Juliet to three. Instagram's. Julia porter zero as importer because my other ones taken wing. Yeah. And then I'm ego. The one. Or my name was taken. I swear unless I wanted like four one to American namely, there's probably so I'm because we don't wanna be morning us feel free to policy. We'll be back on Monday. Everyone have a great weekend. Go drink. Bye. Bye.