20 Episode results for "Hungary"
Austria-Hungary annexed Bosnia and Herzegovina - October 6, 1908
"Steady Mellencamp here from the real housewives of Beverly Hills. I'd like to invite you to go down many many rabbit holes with me on lots of different different topics. You know you've seen your best friend's. boyfriends brothers sisters dog before been on his page. You liked it and then realized why am I following this dog yeah metoo. Some people get help. Some people just talk about it. That's what we're doing here so listen to Teddy pod on the iheartradio APP on Apple podcast or wherever you listen to podcasts this day in history class is a production of iheartradio alot again. It's EAVES and you're listening to this day in history history class. A podcast at truly believes no day is boring. Today is October six twenty nineteen. Uh Today was October nineteen o eight Austria Hungary informed the Ottoman Empire of his annexation of Bosnia and Herzegovina this announcement set off what's known as the Bosnian crisis a period of conflict between Austria Hungary and the Ottoman Empire under the eighteen seventy eight treaty of Berlin Austria Hungary gained the right to occupy and administer the Ottoman Empire's provinces of Bosnia and Herzegovina and the Sandjak of Novi Pazar but Austria Hungary always had its sights set on permanent possession of the provinces Bosnia and Herzegovina were widely sought after but Austria Hungary a lot of work into developing infrastructure mines factories agriculture and schools in Bosnia and Herzegovina at the same time ethnic and the end religious conflict grew within Bosnia and Herzegovina and groups in the two provinces displayed nationalist ambitions the young Turk Revolution broke out in the Ottoman Empire in Nineteen eight and restored the Ottoman Constitution Appear Seventy six and revived the Ottoman Parliament Vienna. I was afraid that the new authorities in the government of the Ottoman Empire would try to restore Ottoman political power in Bosnia and Herzegovina as a WPRO Russia Serbia for control over the Sandjak of Novi Pazar and Bosnia and Herzegovina Russia itself was stabilized after defeat in the Russo Japanese war foreign minister of Austria Hungary alloys graph flex up on Arendal saw an opportunity for Austria Hungary to assert his dominance in the Balkans Austria Hungary's ambassador to Russia Leopold Graf Ferstl set up a meeting between Aaron Paul and the Russian Minister of Foreign Affairs Alexander Petrovich. It is both skis in September nineteen eight at Bouchon Arabia. What actually happened at the meeting is up for debate as no minutes of a meeting where release it is both ski. It says that Russia would not object to the annexation and an exchange Austria Hungary would not object to open the Bosphorus and Dardanelles Straits two Russian warships is Boesky insisted on an international conference before the annexation took place but on October six the day after Bulgaria declared its independence from the Ottoman Empire Emperor Franz Joseph. I of Austria announced that it was annexed Bosnia and Herzegovina the withdrawal of the austro-hungarian Armie from a Sandjak of Novi Pazar was also announced but is Boesky was not expecting the annexation to happen so soon he said that Aaron Thaw Paul did not tell him the date of annexation and that he did not know Austria Hungary planned on executing it before the matter was settled with other political power opposition to the annexation erupted in Europe Russia and the Balkans France Britain and Italy protested the annexation Pan Slavic nationalists nationalist throughout Europe. Were unhappy with announcement. Serbia insisted that Austria Hungary seed part of the Jack of Novi Pazar to them and Dan is Volsky supported them but Austria Hungary backed by Germany threatened to invade Serbia at the end of the Bosnian crisis ACIS Austria Hungary seemed to have come out on top after a boycott of austro-hungarian goods caused commercial losses Austria Hungary ended up paying an indemnity to the Ottomans and alienating many from Australian policy but the Ottoman Empire recognized the annexation which Russia and Serbia accepted opted in March of nineteen o nine the next month the treaty Berlin was amended to accept the annexation the nation's managed to avoid the war but tense relations between Austria Hungary Russia and Serbia after the latter two faced such mutilation remained and contributed due to the outbreak of World War One and nineteen fourteen. I'm jeff coat and hopefully you know a little more about history today than you did yesterday. If you have any burning questions or comments you can leave us a note at T. D. H. podcast on twitter facebook or instagram or you can go the old fashioned out and send us an email at this day at iheartmedia dot com. Thanks for tuning in and we'll catch you tomorrow. Our own fame place for more podcasts from IHEART radio is iheartradio APP apple podcasts or wherever you listen to your favorite shows Teddy Mellencamp here from the real housewives of Beverly Hills. I'd like to invite you to go down many many rabbit holes with me on lots of different topics. You know you've seen your best friend's. boyfriends brothers sisters dog before been on his page. You liked it and then realized why am I following this dog. Yeah me too some people. We'll get help. Some people just talk about it. That's what we're doing here so listen to teddy t pod on the iheartradio APP on Apple podcast or wherever you listen to podcasts.
The Final Shore. Dipanjan Bhattacharjee . IINK Podcasts . Episode 261
"The final shore to the doctor. Ill i beheld. My shadow could still have smelled. Does strange order that rafted there and the winter and the flickering candle flame. My eyes could still see them. Their footsteps knocked insight. I tried my best to hide. I was all alone to fight amid the gruesome night the howling thunderstorm shaped me. In all thumbs this sniffed my aroma. To grab my bod maybe to rip are stab dooming. Tensions sprouted out. My strangle voice could not shout. I fell sick. With my fuming soul blurred. I saw my stein goal. Pristine me my naked vibe drenched. In fear my mind imbibe. This searched each corner to found my lusty flesh like hungary hound to devore each tinge of blood and sweat till they burn my humane fate born a girl. I was to feed hungry souls wrapped in greed. They're lusty phillips. Leaked me pouring like a burning see and then my rostered. Soul sneaked out to groan in pain and rome about lifeless gauge of blood and flesh lied there naked with the drooping face. The left my house. I could see few hours of treacherous company. And then they're gone beyond my view like the mourns with a dried up due hours. Later my rendering soul realized each tempered goal. My life has reached the final shore. I must leave with an open door. I must leave with an open door.
NEW: Toxic Flood of Hungary Pt. 1
"Hi Listeners it's Kate first and foremost I'd like to take a moment to thank you for listening to podcast like you. We've had to make some major adjustments to adapt to these unprecedented times but with your loyalty and the podcast staff. We've been able to do so. We thank you for your patience and with that I am pleased to announce that there will be no more interruptions dear listening experience due to Cova Nineteen. We are bringing you all new episodes today and for the foreseeable future from all of us. Here at podcast. We hope that you and your families are safe and healthy. Thank you again for your patience. We hope you enjoy these new episodes. The Hungarian aluminum production and trade company never thought they had any cause for concern. They had been depositing waste a caustic red sludge into the same reservoir since the nineteen sixties during the last inspection of the reservoir which sat a few miles outside the small rural village of Deva Chair. Hungary it was reported that nothing untoward was observed. They believed the sludge was kept a fair distance from human life and that the waste a substance that could burn through. Skin wasn't all that toxic anyway but the summer of two thousand ten had been unusually wet with each day of rain. The soil foundation of the caustic waste pond shifted pushing at the walls that held the toxic slime in place. October fourth. Two thousand ten was the first dry morning in days but the last stretch of inclement weather had finally been too much for the reservoir handle at twelve thirty five. In the afternoon the dam broke toxic. Waste burst forth in waves. That rose two meters heading right for the town of Deva Chair welcomed to natural disasters. Apar- cast original. I'm your host Kate. I'm Tim every. Thursday will explore the moments in history when the natural world turned deadly. You can find all episodes of natural disasters and all other parkas originals for free on spotify or wherever you listen to podcasts to stream natural disasters for free on spotify. Just open the APP and type natural disasters in the search bar at par cast. We are grateful for you our listeners. You allow us to do what we love. Let us know how we're doing reach out on facebook and Instagram at podcast and twitter at Parkas network? This is our first of two episodes on Toxic Flood Endeavour Chair Hungary on October fourth. Two thousand ten. The concrete walls of a waste reservoir from a nearby aluminum plant broke after days of heavy rain in the area. An ecological disaster of epic proportions. The flood damaged bridges lifted cars and wiped out hundreds of homes this week. We'll follow the missteps taken before the dam burst and what happened when the flood began will also see how the newly minted town mayor took matters into his own hands to rescue the village. He grew up in next week. We'll see how the town of Deva chair rebuilt itself after the disaster and how the LUMINANCE company responsible had to reckon with the damages. Deva chair is a rural valley town in Hungary about a two hour drive from Budapest. It's marked by its charming cream. Colored homes with arched doorways and clay shingle roofs old halls with spires and churches that bring to mind the eastern Europe of storybooks. Sit along cobbled tree lined roads but behind the idyllic facade. There was socio political. Strife OFFICIALLY SETTLED IN THE YEAR. Twelve ninety seven devotee was conquered multiple times by successive empires including the Ottomans. During the austro-hungarian Empire Deva Chair became a fiefdom in world war. Two it was under Nazi control. Before being overtaken by Russia's Red Army Soviet troops remained stationed in Hungary until the early nineties from an economic standpoint by the Sixties Deva Chair was not a thriving place to live or work businesses. Were quiet and homes were left to deteriorate as the job market dwindled but the townspeople took pride in their community. In spite of its slow social and commercial progress neighbors spent hours together chatting and listening to the radio. They tried to ignore the Soviet government propaganda fed to them over the airwaves living contentedly within their quiet daily lives the nearby town of Ocu- was on the cutting edge of industry. Factories and plants overtook the area in a boom production. The Hungarian aluminum production and trade company was one such business. Aluminum is processed from a material called bauxite. It's a raw substance that's dugout from deep underground then washed with hot. Sodium hydroxide to extract the aluminum. This is called the Bayer process which was developed in the nineteenth century. The by product from the Bayer process is a mixture of solids aptly called red mud. It contains heavy metals like cadmium cobalt and lead. It can be difficult to figure out what to do with all the red mud especially because it's radioactive for decades. The factory deposited waste into the reservoir. They built nearby a few miles from Deva Chair. The by product that rested in the waste dump was a vicious liquid thick red and filled with metal. Oxide imagine a kind of poisonous blood colored swimming pool. The substance also created a red sheen on the surrounding dirt when the top film of the sludge would dry. Dust was formed a dust unsafe for human lungs. The company believed the container to be well tucked away from daily life and the sludge itself to be safely and closed. They weren't worried about pedestrian chemical exposure. Containment ponds are built to last through any kind of weather so they don't commonly break at least not win. The proper regulations are followed but the fact of the matter is at Hungarian aluminum. Those safety regulations were reportedly ignored. The containment pond was inspected with some regularity to ensure the structure of the dam was sound and strong however later analysis showed that the walls of the dam had been weakening for a long time the exterior structure shifted over a centimeter yearly creating uneven an unstable walls that were bound to burst but somehow this had gone unnoticed or unnoted in any of the inspections along with the shifting structure the reservoir was overfilled the levels of toxic substances in the pond were much greater than the legal limit. It would never be clear just how much the company knew about the impending danger of the sludge pond but Greenpeace stated in a report that the toxic flood could be directly linked to human negligence to ignoring signs severe emissions and issues of liability. The people of Deva Chair would bear the brunt of the aluminum companies disastrous negligence. No one in the town could have guessed the havoc that the sludge would wreak. The red mud had been building up for almost fifty years in this one waste reservoir and the autumn of two thousand ten had been a particularly wet season. Endeavour Chair that rain was the last Straw? For the weakening walls of the waste pit. Things in town had been normal on the morning of October fourth. Two thousand ten school was in session. Shops were open. And the traditions of autumn were underway. Tomas TWARDY had been awake to see the sunrise that morning. A lifelong resident of Deva Chair. The fifty eight year old wasn't an early riser. He had been up all night celebrating his win. As the town's new mayor little did he know his first day would bring a challenge of epic proportions later on going into the bright early afternoon. Tomasz was now sleeping off. His celery Tori hangover other townspeople. Were outside on. Midday walks having lunch and simply going about their days around twelve thirty five. Pm that afternoon. The soil foundation of the containment pond shifted forcefully. The reservoir cracked with an unstoppable burst in an instant thirty. Five MILLION. Cubic feet of waste came rushing toward the town from the red mud lake. Just a few miles away all over town at the KOSTIC. Waves lifted cars from where they were parked in driveways. The current cracked and toppled bridges. The liquid surged through Windows Filling sinks and bathtubs sending personal items floating through living-rooms like ducks on the pond. The Soviet style apartments and the fragile windows of old Baroque buildings were no match for the waves. The residents of Deva Chair who happened to be outdoors saw liquid surge through the winding streets with the violent strength of Minnie. Soon Nami some were swept. The current other scurried to people ran up the steps of their porches to balance on railings or sought refuge in trees from the violent blood coloured river. Others tried to climb up to their rooftops. As the height of the sludge reached six feet. The unnatural red colour hinted immediately. That whatever this was it wasn't safe coming up. We'll see how the people of Deva Chair grapple with the unexpected now back to the story at twelve thirty five PM on October fourth two thousand ten a surge of toxic waste came barreling towards the town of Deva Chair Hungary. In an instant the ordinary autumn day became a race for survival. A local child was playing at home when the flood came rushing towards the house when it hit. The sludge almost reached the ceiling in a moment of clarity. The child ran fast climbing up a tree near the house and jumping onto the roof to safety. They stood watching with a pounding heart out of breath as the red mud and Gulf to the family home gone were the bikes left in the yard and the flowers their mother had planted below the windows. There were other residents who responded with similar bravery and speed. According to a story in the New York Times an elderly couple had been home enjoying the day together when their windows shattered from the flood? Waves of rusty sludge pummeled inside their furniture was consumed. Pictures fell from the walls. The sound of dishes breaking and shelves collapsing was deafening. The couple believed they were meeting a hellish end filled with adrenaline. The old husband hurled his body towards his wife grasping onto her waist and lifting her above the mud. He pushed her towards a broken window so she could balance. They're safe from the horrible mysterious substance that devoured their home. His Selfless Act came at a price. The sludge badly burned the elderly man's legs and he had to be rushed to the hospital. He was hardly the only person to suffer from the toxic sludge. Those who came into contact with substance immediately learned the most horrifying characteristic of the red mud because the PH levels were so high from the mixture of natural and processed chemicals. It burned through skin for some. It created wounds the size of small Frisbees for others. It burned their flesh right to the bone. The metallic bitter aluminum waste seeped into their mouths and splattered on their limbs. Like the detriments of a bomb and there was more danger to consider than simply skin contact the accompanying. Dust flew into people's lungs. Making it nearly impossible to breathe. Residents tried their best to get to hospitals but the river of sludge kept many of them. Stuck in place. Roads were in disrepair. They were paralyzed with confusion. Helpless against the onslaught. The sludge didn't stop with injuries. Either an elderly woman drowned in the waves in one home in the adjacent village of Coal Tar. A toddler was taken under the current and killed the child. Siblings struggled to breathe as the polluted residue filled the air. Their mother could only look on helplessly. The whole family suffered burns from the sludge and one of her children would have permanent lung damage. The mother would later tell news sources that she believed. Her family was cursed a thirty five year old man. Driving along the road saw the blood coloured water rushing towards him as he drove he had no time to think remove when the wave hit his car it was overturned and destroyed. He didn't survive in total. Ten lives would be lost in the catastrophe. One hundred and fifty more would sustain terrible injuries. The damage made the town. Unrecognizable homes and businesses caved in and left nothing behind with piles of rubble plant. Life was destroyed soil eroded and trees toppled barnes collapsed and businesses lost their inventory. Everyone experienced firsthand the initial horror of the poisonous flood. It was still just beginning. It's deadly progress through town mayor. Tomas woke that early afternoon still groggy from his victory. Celebration to the incessant ringing of his phone he had received a torrent of calls and voicemails. He looked outside and saw the sludge painting over the town. He watched cars float by overturned. Broken pieces of lawn furniture plummeted. Downhills in waves of red townspeople screamed out in terror. Certain their lives were over. Pedestrians were taken into the current like leaves. They reached out grabbing for benches and fence posts. Tomas phone continued to ring when he snapped to the present moment. Finally picking up a call. He began to comprehend what was going on. The waste. Reservoir at the aluminum company had collapsed and it was causing a horrific calamity. Many were injured others were missing his first day as mayor would be a baptism by fire soon. Red Mud with slapping at the walls and windows of Toomas home. His houses six inch. Concrete Foundation stood strong against the lethal forces. But he knew that hundreds of homes across the village would not be so lucky he quickly answered calls from Constituents Family and friends assuring them that he would take immediate action but the truth was he didn't know a thing about what he was dealing with was the worst over after the initial tidalwave. An hour before headed just begun. He had no answers but he did have a plan. Thank God Tomasz. Had managed large scale high stake operations in the past. He worked as an agricultural commissioner trading cattle and eventually running his own farm as a younger man he was drafted into the army where he managed a unit of one hundred soldiers and while these experiences were helpful references. It's also true. That of it prepared him for cleaning up a toxic flood in many ways. It was a situation. Tomas should never have had to contend with unlike purely natural disaster the poisonous flow endeavor chair could have been prevented but safety procedures had been willfully ignored by malls eared. The company managing the plant. It was reported after the flood that the amount of by product kept in the reservoir was two times the limit. The two hundred sixty four million gallons that came rushing through the town with lethal velocity. That day was far too much. For the reservoir to hold in the first place while the burst was sudden the breaking down of the reservoir walls was a small and slow process. That happened over the course of years. What remained of the original? Construction was examined after the break and it was found to be poorly built and maintained. This was only made worse by the over. Filling had the company adhere to regulations. A new reservoir would have been built for the refuse years before. Disaster took place environmentalists commented in the aftermath that the company had put profit before safety with catastrophic results. The toxicity of the mud with a P. H. They were soon to learn burned flesh and filled lungs with a cancerous. Dust was also far over the level permissible for a waste area. The people of Deva Chair should have been made aware they were living in such close proximity to deadly toxins but the severity of these oversights would not be brought to light until far too late while the aluminum company had assigned employees to regulate and monitor the waste. Their inspections were clearly not thorough or accurate and yet after the dam burst they stated that management could not have noticed the signs of the natural catastrophe nor done anything to prevent it even while carefully respecting technological procedures. If you look at the inspection logs that would appear to be true. In the time leading up to the disaster misleading information had been written down claiming there were no signs of breakdown or overuse the last inspection before the disaster reported that there was nothing untoward in the structure. Either the company had no accurate way of appraising the potential dangers or the realities were willfully and repeatedly ignored beyond that according to Greenpeace during their initial public statements. The company cited test results from a decade before the disaster. That stated the red mud was not toxic while they acknowledged the damages of the flood itself. The CEO of the company said the mud pose no major health risk and it did not pose any threat to the environment. These statements were soon retracted. When the mud was proven to burn people to the Bonn still in the weeks following the people of Devonshire didn't receive any factual information about the lasting dangers of substance. Clearly the town couldn't rely on the company's management to take charge of a rescue initiative. But help was coming mayor. Tomas paused for a stolen minute between the constant calls to make some decisions. Has the flood raged on? There was little Tomasz. Could do other than keep calm and take action. People were looking to him for solutions. His first outbound call was to his wife Irma a math teacher to tell her to stay put at school with her students. Once he ensured her safety to Moss's next calls for to his farming friends he knew. Local farmers and construction workers had access to big machinery bulldozers tractors and large scale diggers could be useful in the rescue efforts. He asked them all to get whatever tools and machines they had access to dress in layers and forge into the caustic sludge to help save the townspeople. Meanwhile local firefighters were doing the same. Tomasz 's crew joined alongside them in pulling frightened in injured residents from windows and rescuing kids who were balanced on. Rooftops families gathered together on dry ground. Just outside of town trying to piece together. What was going on those who couldn't find their loved ones. Were Frantic with fear praying. Their families had survived the flood. Coming up we'll see how. The World responded to Deva chairs disaster now back to the story after the toxic flood on October fourth. Two thousand ten around four hundred residents of Deva chair were forced to evacuate immediately. The injury count was rising and the burn victims needed medical attention. These were the issues that kept mayor. Tomas Twenty in constant motion Tomasz worked with officials in nearby towns to find food and housing for people whose homes had been destroyed or severely damaged. They were quickly able to set up shelters and find residents willing to house the displaced he coordinated with police forces an outside workers who were called in to help with rescue efforts maintain order and treat wounds using high-pressure water hoses they redirected the sludge from roadways so people could move semi safely through the town but there was worry amongst officials that things could take a turn at any moment and residents might riot or refuse to evacuate mayor. Thomas had confidence that the people of Deva Chair would cooperate with. The situation was already slipping out of his control is actions were punctuated by constant calls from his working crews and other officials. Eventually he bought another cell phone solely to field calls from the press everywhere he went a news crew or TV reporter was stationed poised and ready to ask him what happened and what is plan was he stayed up for twenty four hours that first day a foreshadowing of how little sleep he would get in the coming weeks. The residents around him were angry. Afraid and devastated. They had no one else to look to. Everyone wanted to know who was to blame and how this possibly could have happened. Did no one realize the wall was about to break is truly nothing that could have been done. Why didn't no one no that? The waste posed such a threat to the human body on contact. Tomas was exhausted and emotionally on edge. He answered their questions even though he had little more idea than they had at that point. Only those who built the waste reservoir really knew what caused the concrete structure to break altemus. New was that the town's recovery now rested in his hands. The impact of the flood would continue long beyond the initial horrors but the sudden devastation alone was nearly impossible to comprehend in particular the injuries when injured residents did make it to doctors. The Grave. Nature of their wounds became apparent. They were being closely watched. At nearby health centers. Doctors warn the patients and their families that the chemical burns could worsen over time. There was a potential. The wounds would continue growing eating away at tissue for days. Even if the injuries seemed relatively harmless at first several people died at the hospital from complications others were only beginning to reckon with ailments that would take years to heal and even as Thomas and other officials evacuated people out of town to stained safe zones but toxic. Dangers weren't over even once the current calmed and the flood effectively ran through Deva Chair. The town was cloaked with dried cancerous. Red Mud by the end of the day it not only served as an eerie reminder of the cataclysmic event but the residue was deadly in and of itself. The dust made breathing challenge the dangerous effects of the dust. Particles would only continue to reveal themselves over time not long after the flood hit the outside world learned about the unique ecological nightmare reporters from around the globe flew in to bear witness to the flood and to keep track of the effect it was having on the population and the terrain. Hungary's minister of the Interior and the Director of the National Directorate General for Disaster Management. Travel Deva Chair that day to try and control the disaster they were met by reporters lining the streets setting up camp in their vans. Getting footage of the Uis in every crevice of town from the broken down Barnes to the washed out backyards even after the floods current die down. The ruins of town were left in. Its wake sludge flowed in rivulets down the sides of alleyways red mud filled in every pothole and sidewalk crevice a waist. High Red mark stained everything. The flood had touched this disaster dubbed the worst Hungary had ever seen would put deva chair in the world news spotlight for the first time. Ever the flood changed it from a historically rooted. Sleepy village into a synonym for ECO. Disaster on the ground. It wasn't hard to tell. Just how dangerous. The sludge would continue to be to humans and the environment alike. The Central Agricultural Office declared a ban on fishing and hunting that night and official intervention by the chief veterinary officer prohibited sales and use of food or other items that had been contaminated by the sludge and while. Deva chair saw the worst of the flood that day. Seven more towns were endanger. The toxic mud was continuing to move. Hungarian government spokeswoman on Anais told Reuters that they had declared a state of emergency in the regions around of a chair as well. The Aluminum Company malls eared. Still wouldn't admit that the sludge was in fact toxic but the burning flesh the ruined homes collapsing structures. An overturned cars were tangible. Evidence of how harmful the red mud was to everything it came across. There was no way to deny what everyone was seeing with their own eyes and as the red mud spread to the surrounding areas to a thick uis covered everything in its path. The flood headed into the valleys and forests surrounding the area. Contaminating the water and decimating aquatic life. Wild animals were killed and flora annihilated farmland. Filled with crops would never again be viable. More extensive. Widespread cleanup efforts began the next day at dawn. Water management professionals directed firefighters and military troops to poor calcium nitrate and magnesium into the Marquel River. They were hoping to prevent pollution of the Danube or at least neutralize the sludge to make it less toxic at the same time on orders from the central agricultural office workers began to collect and dispose of animal carcasses in the surrounding forests the army and the National Public Health and Medical Officer Service came in to assess radiation levels not surprisingly production at Mall. Zere was put to a screeching halt by government order on this as well. Company officials were responsible for immediate repairs to the waste pond to contain whatever was left up the red mud in its original holding zone but the fear and damn anche would continue to spread now. Serbia and Bulgaria were beginning to prepare for contamination. Authorities announced that it would take an estimated year to recover any semblance of Structure Endeavor Chair and that would come at the cost of about ten billion forint the equivalent of roughly thirty million dollars and within days despite efforts to stop it the toxic flood would be heading towards the Rabah and Danube rivers. No one knew where the devastation would end. Thanks for listening to natural disasters next week. We'll follow the inhabitants of Deva Chair. As they rebuild the town will also follow up on what happened to those responsible for the toxic waste flood during their trial. You can find all episodes of natural disasters and all other podcast originals for free on spotify. Not only despite a file ready have all of your favorite music but now spotify is making it easy for you to enjoy all of your favorite podcast originals like natural disasters for free from your phone desktop or smart speaker to stream natural disasters on spotify. Just open the APP and type natural disasters in the search bar and don't forget to follow us on facebook and Instagram at par cast and twitter at podcast network Nelson X. Time natural disasters was created by Max Cutler in Desert Park cast studios original. It's executive produced by Max Color Sound designed by Anthony Val sick with production assistance by Ron Shapiro Carly Madden and Isabella win. This episode of Natural Disaster was written by an Akira. Stints Writing Assistance by Kay Gallagher and stars. Tim Johnson Caitlyn.
The Authoritarian's Playbook: Rewriting History in Hungary
"Commute airports arrived in Budapest from Brussels where I normally report on the European Union. Gobierno called to investigate the media landscape Hungary and how it came to be dominated by Kish Ma. So government-supported supported media empire and very twas odds the airport newsstand catch. My was all over the place I am right now. Magazine Magazine Section tabloid Kasich. It's interesting since the new standards. The news press so we have books boss is owned owned by Tishman is wiki Virgo. He's also catch. People's is vacationing together. zipped cash is an acronym for the Central U. P. N. Press and Media Foundation. So we have a new stent newspaper here on you warm as I would learn over the course of my reporting being cash my is a news. In Hungary it is a media consortium controlled by Prime Minister Vikto bans personal associate and in political allies. I left as the airport and headed to meet Look Shabbir ease of former editor of young nation. WHO CAST fire five x has the building? Of course. Now it's abandoned and he points with eighteen. The newspaper should down almost overnight. Zona was offered at odds with all band. After Obama won reelection. He sold the paper. He admitted he had been defeated. New Cash Remembers Day. Windsor staff was to say but nobody was expecting that. It will be shut down the newspaper so immediately so they gave us one day. Say Goodbye for the raiders. And that was the very last day when it was published but more than a year later had new ownership Kashmir so that's a propaganda media it's paid by the government via not not in common with them of course so you are L. saying this is not newspaper Yes of course they have good content as well because they are writing about culture or about historial adult stuff but in political terms they are not real journalist. So it's used only for propaganda reasons. The story of the young nation is not unique over the past. Nine years media outlets are falling victim to Obama's campaign to expand government control to shutdown independent media. According according to people I spoke with Prime Minister Auburn East creating his own media machine to control the political climate and to deliver his. Party's nationalist Cinelli Narrative. So far he has succeeded in the last four years. The number of pro-government news outlets inaugural as shot shot up from thirty. Two other. Five hundred giving Viktor Orban control of over half of the news. Organizations is a country if journalism is the first draft of history than Hungarian. Prime Minister Viktor. Orban's media empire has allowed him to not only right that first draft but to rewrite the history of Hungary itself and his revision of history follows his own nationalist narrative life. For this season of the ground truth podcast. We've dispatched reporters to detail. How populous leaders seem to be following the same how to guide in turn democracy against itself today rewriting history? In Hungary this is democracy undone the authoritarians playbook reporting project from the ground. Truth podcast in partnership with the Atlantic magazine I'm Charles Senate founder of the Ground Truth Project. This series focuses on seven countries Hungary India Poland Brazil Italy Colombia and the United States although leaders each of these countries may not be authoritarians. Their tactic seemed to be leaning leaning in that direction in the process of reporting these stories. We've identified common methods or plays from playbook that populist leaders are using to undermine find the same democracies that elected them whether driven by heads of state or political parties these forces often deploy multiple tactics at the the same time but we're highlighting one in each country this chapter of the authoritarians playbook rewriting history and Hungary is by our global reporting fellow. Quentin Arias he speaks with journalists who've witnessed the transformation of their once independent newsrooms into funnels of propaganda for Orban's Fidesz S. party Quinton also explores how the government patronizes. It's pro government cashman outlets and squeezes independent media through expansive Regulatory Corey. Power to understand how the ruling party is rewriting. History Quentin begins with the rise of their leader. Prime Minister Viktor. Orion the Victor Orban has been involved in politics for over thirty years during the one thousand nine hundred eighty S. He was a long head activist calling Owen to Ongeri Communist. The communist regime collapsed. I and in one thousand nine hundred ninety s country held free elections Viktor. Orban was elected to parliament leading his Fidesz party which had received saved barely nine percents of the seats. Eight years. Later or band became Hungary's Prime Minister and Bill to coalition government. We've over conservative conservative parties but oh bands. Opponents criticized each placement of allies in key wars the station and is polarizing politics. Fix all bands party lost. Its majority to fasten into any became the leader of your position. He supported the blames blames. The media for the loss in two thousand ten oban came back in a landslide so that TV on the part five this time he's feeders. Polity held the two thirds majority in parliament. This majority allowed Adam to disregard any objections forms the opposition parties and gave them the power to rewrite the constitution. They did this more than ten times since two thousand ten is tacked. The Constitutional Court is caught as a country. More conservative judges Zan Victoria all ban. Dan began to redraw the media landscape. He pushed four new regulatory bodies and media. Console stacked it with his allies the console whereas power to impose penalties on media outlets for any coverage government considers unbalance. That is anything critical of the government. We've all bands government controls in place is wealthy backers went on a buying spree from Dotan. It was the year run. The government came to power overlooked of ownership changes in the Hungarian media market or by is economist economist and member of Mythic a media watchdog. Several international investments left the Hungarian market or they just I simply saw the major of their portfolio especially in the only two car market at the same time the domestic investors bought up this media assets and this domestic to invest rs and that financial mess stars. They are political invest best starts. It means that they serve political interest of course not surprisingly program meant odaguard close to the prime minister I Began to build a media empire brought up newspapers and independent websites. The also shut down newspapers overnight like the left leaning liberty of the people more of what had been independent media suddenly became loyal promoters of government typically to Viktor Orban is looking forward to a third successive term as prime minister after e one another four year term in twenty eighteen. All Band was now how about to officially sanctions his media. Empire Kashmira now a year later. Kashmir's almost five hundred outlets. It's include political newspapers local newspapers. TV stations tabloids and news websites then the government quickly issued a decree declaring that the creation of Kashmir was a matter of his election or interest. This is key. This decree exempted cashmere from any other side from the country's competition authority and it has managed to evade any antitrust laws that could be enforced buys as European Union of which Hungary has been a member. Since two thousand four Kashmir's national dominance is built on a network of local news outlets many are in small cities across the country. So I went to one of those communities. I drove free hours to patch a CD in southwest southwest Hungary in twenty seventeen Attila. Babu's air win. Good launches a regional news website. Free pitch the explains local communities. Today have a hard time finding news about the local areas typically the Kashmir local newspapers have around sixteen pages but only a fraction is written by the local reporters that means fewer stories stories about local officials stories. We've looked going back to the issue of conducting a lot of people stopped breeding those newspapers for political reasons but but also because they weren't interesting anymore or they were badly written. Most local media owned by Kashmira and receives a content from public relations agencies. NC's told me why thinks Kashmir investors are buying small market news outlets and it's not unlike sinclair media the America which is used its chain of local TV stations to spread nationalist right-wing point of view. He yet uh-huh yeah clearly. They look for opportunities in rural areas. Where people only get information through the television or the local newspapers? It's a bigger electoral weapon than we think. Think according to a news regimen dominated by Kashmir's nationalist narrative helps keep Albans Party in power abic before launching their own. Line new site at till an air win wrote for the paper that today is owned by Kitiona but because independent and not pro government they are now running into problems of access. Zan Not invited to press conferences and officials do not answer questions. This is the easiest way to reason for that is to call us fake news so they don't communicate at all so we don't get any information on cashman not only towards information that on gas receive it plays a significant foale inside the ties moments. They see Hungary as less than ten million people about the same number as Indiana yet Indiana as it just over two hundred fifty media outlets compare that to Hungary's nearly five hundred pro government media outlets controlled by Kashmira and one one of Hungary's biggest advertisers ease government according to the investigative website clouds. Oh the angehrn. Government spent nearly three hundred twenty million dollars in advertising. Since what ten years or bands economist we heard from earlier is more specific about eighty percent of the advertising revenue comes from the government and booby companies. Lags the lottery or the energy company major major entity of this Media Companies Couldn't be sustainable without state money Because they they are basically propaganda media and mutuality of them are not so popular so the state has to finance this media portfolio and all ban is in effect created a government subsidy for his Kashmir media empire making it is a mouthpiece of the government. Obama is also using the ads to attack his opponents. Lags American Gillian Philanthropies Yorkshire. Who's a a longtime opponent of all band? Orban is accused of salvos of funding illegal migration. George Soros the most influential billionaire in the world supports the settling of illegal immigrants and would eliminate borders. This is outrageous. His policy would ruin Hungary. Don't let Soros have. The last laugh commissioned by the Hungarian government a clear purpose of this campaign is to influence the political whitacre climate in Hungary. But the important is on Just to finance the pro-government media because so is offered at the center of Obama's attacks. All Band is often accused of painting Soros with Jewish as a powerful banker fallon CA. Many many say that Obama's tapped into late and anti Semitism that causes fru on guy in history in addition to the government ad campaigns. Things like we heard earlier. They are the Anti Soros News Stories. It was reported that source was trying to punish Hungary by appointing being new year officials. Were against all band. This turned out to be false. Zo All by NEWSIES CASHMAN network to to go after his favorite scapegoats electric service he also uses it to target political enemies the opposition parties. Uh I went to parliament to see how opposition lawmakers view Kashmir so first of all we will have media freedom anymore in this country shaped and Benedetto sale is an independent lawmaker. Who has been in office for seven years? She throws a grim picture on how cashmere media outlets are working with the government to smear your position so this is basically the recipe of politicians says something. And there's a kind of a chain or a network. DOC and van propaganda media starts talking about that and the others echo it and also the TV and the radio stations. They do the same so it basically goes everywhere bear and it goes everywhere for free. They give it to you practically every day. Venue go to the metro station and they always draw beautiful picture about government politicians and they always correct. Kill the ones who were for the opposition and she told me about one story where she was the target example. They made up a story about me being totally rich and they put an illustration recast all but that's not my house in a different friend's house and she knows the story was fake. He doesn't stop and our staff from watching cash my media so first of all Hungary currently is cut into to to have of the country. That's media the half the free media and are there are no corridors between the two and Sometimes I do read it because because I have to see it clearly. What goes on there? and was I have to sue resemble By calling share gallery checks out that goes on in this so-called media but obviously obviously the propaganda media so we have to be very clear that we cannot handle propaganda is a normal media because they do not show the basic characteristics of media. You say she's a reported had conservative website but not affiliated with cash my also government before that he was an editor at TV. TV stations that was was independent but it was taking over by Auburn supporters after he was reelected. That's when Adam resigned. He says to be part of what he calls the propaganda machine. I met him in a bar in Budapest where remembered day station was digging although over. Bhai Orban's cronies who Tanisha. We'll see what they woke up and I check the news feed on my phone. I read red. They took control of here. TV I was still at home so I called one of my colleagues and he confirmed the news. I told him I'll go upstairs and give my resignation letter when I arrived. I sat in the car. Smoking cigarette after cigarette chugging energy drinks I was asking myself what will happen next. Nobody new going to happen. That quickly had 'em had actually considered resigning a few years earlier when he and his bosses with forced to Paul Torrezon government in a positive light and sensors themselves. For instance. C- cannot use the word oligarch on air but in two thousand fifteen station took a stand against all them not the team meeting. We were told we were now independent from now on. We could write anything we want. There were no forbidden topics. We didn't have to smear or scapegoat anybody. This is what convinced me stay for the next four years damn felt like his work matter if TV was able to write about corruption allegations against Talk Fidesz officials or report owns owns a misuse of European Union phones by Allies of Alban after resigning Adam at to stay if TV for a month he had to oversee the editorial changes. It is a great wave. Some of his top editors were fired and we play by people with similar views of Alban's body astronaut flats going from our former reporters to the new propagandists the differences of professionalism and basic competencies Zeze were immediately apparent. The new management wrote a script for the new show is prepping for. I read it on the teleprompter and I said look this is crap. It's full of repetitions support. But my boss told me they wrote a letter that that's how it'll be. Does we visit their shape to. Adam is both was afraid frade of disobeying orders. Adam is worried that pro-government groups like Kashmir only there to brainwash per blake was not exposed to independent news. He says for instance viewers. We only sees a critical stories involving migrants never critical stories about the government at tried to talk with cash officials about any editorial directions again Tuesday outlets none of my calls or emails where returned. I'm standing outside. The main Kashmira headquarters in Budapest Foundation is registered at this address however there is no phone number and actually is a world kissed is nowhere to be seen. As a few days later I did find a Kashmir reporter Alta who agreed to talk but only if I did not reveal the reporters name agenda reporter told me that the media owned by Kashmira runs independently from each other and that cash mad does not call the efforts to speak about the topic or to smear politician. Let's recap the playbook of victims. Ben I is. Allies are banned newspapers. We Sean now. Under the umbrella of Kashmir second is government spends millions of dollars each year to keep those propaganda media afloat regardless was acquitted of journalism and third orban ban any supporters. ACOUSTICALLY trying to clamp down on independent media as ability to do that job birds all band government. Defense cash mass position. In supporting Hungary's entrepreneurs and enterprises the formulation and establishment of cash was a market like private initiative and we helped the private initiative and the resort and Kovic is victor all vans international spokesman and he explained paint to me that Kashmir also plays an important role in Hungary's development for the past nine years. We've been building up those areas. which have relevance this? From the perspective of Hungary's National Future and that is a matter of national strategy or national security including critical infrastructure picture and so on small has approached the government with an initiative which was bringing together a Hungarian owned media. And we believe that in today's world at the beginning of the Twentieth Century Emmanuel respect the national ownership of media is part of the critical infrastructure. We have to face Kovac was not concerned about the lack of transparency of Kashmir. You says the government does not intervene in this private initiative of detail title. What about a state advertising money directed to cash my media companies? Does it create a bias and distorted media market. Well I believe not I I mean. Depression is wrong. What is important for us is how to reach those Hungarians actually to whom we are talking to and that's why we have concentrated revenues that instead instead of spending it in an efficient way we spend the money efficiently according to call that because cash so fast it only makes sense for the government amen to spend money advertising food or cash match? That is we have dogs. We want to reach And it doesn't matter who is providing US those targets if if the advertisement reaches the goal for that it is fine for the government to advertise because over countries do it but the problem is unlike other governments like France Austria all bands. Advertising campaigns MIA minorities migrants or any opponents of the government. Speaking of Austria Victor Albans Media Strategy became a source of inspiration to inference twenty eighteen national election campaign. Hey this is old your former video clip codes the AP's affair which was released by two German newspapers. Newspapers Video. Looks like it was. We've called it with a hidden camera. It shows the leader of the Austrian Korean Far-right Party and Russian investors plotting to win a twenty eighteen Austrian. Parliamentary elections part of the scheme was to buy Australia's has men tabloid and to motivate after the media takeover in Hungary. Lena your birth from we are back in. Brussels does Belgium after several weeks longer. It was time to go back to my routine of covering Europe but I could not forget. How all bands methods could could become a template for the rest of the continent like scheme? We just heard out in Austria. I am not the only one. Julie Marches Zach is from reporters thirds. Vote Baldur's while it is already the case I mean if the e U does nothing he will allow other member states is to follow the road. I mean Poland does what Hungary did before. Yeah it opened the doors for other member said to say Oh Anyway Eddie. You doesn't care about value so we are free weekend whatever we want. So what can Europe do. UPN lawmakers worries at Oban tight restrictions offers a free media but also immigrants and human rights groups will only weekend Democratic Dick Freedoms what was really surprising over. The past months is how European officials in diplomats are aware of what all band is doing the free repress but some countries like Poland Romania and Croatia. I totally agree with some of all bands. Policies overs like like France and the Netherlands. Believes that Hungary's democracy is in danger. It is always difficult for European countries to jugs in neighbors. Positional GNOMES. Oh sensitive national issues. So besides what they called could monitoring Zishu said do not wish to sanction allman and. This is another novel. Line of Alban's particular playbook playing within the limits of what is acceptable to European Union and finding grey areas and when any DAS- he knows he won't face any scrutiny or consequences beyond the European Union's broader concerns about all bench controls the media there is also a local crisis. I'm reminded of what Attila by Bose. The local editor in page told me he said that there is no freedom of suppressing the pricing Ongeri Anymore Shaw Kubota shoveling atom is going to hold your most of your. I'm pessimistic because a few years ago. We never thought we could could of ended up in this situation Viktor. Orban wants to preserve a tiny version of a democracy. People can protest and some newspapers can still write bad things about the prime minister. So this allows victor hormone to say see in Hungary. There's no threat to democracy named Josh Right Act and that is a shadow. In which Hungary finds itself today where some of the trappings of democracy remain intact but the country's democracy democracy is under threat so government controls a large percentage of the media and seems to be writing history of the nation Hungary are`maybe stumbling towards a new very ties. A what all bank owes his illiberal democracy in Quinton aureus various is ground truth global reporting fellow with our democracy undone project you can read his accompanying written piece in the Atlantic magazine on our website. We've created a graphic illustration `lustration authoritarians playboy for all seven countries featured. In the project. There are also interviews with each of our democracy on reporting fellows. You tell us what you think of this episode and give us a rating. Tell your friends they can subscribe on. NPR One apple podcasts. spotify or wherever they listen. This episode was reported and produced by Quentin Arias with editorial support from Tracey Tong and Rob Rosenthal special thanks to Ludovic the Peltier Kutaisi. Our senior producer is Mitch. Hanley the Ground Truth Project editorial team includes Selena Gomez Josh Co so todd. Ching Wilson Bano and Maria Somali ground truths executive editor is Kevin Grant. The Atlantic Magazine's global editor is per shot row. This podcast is in partnership with the Atlantic magazine and is supported by W H major funding for this season of the podcast comes from the loose foundation and the Macarthur Foundation. I'm Charles Senate. Executive producer of the podcast and founder of the Ground Truth Project which which supports emerging journalists to do on the ground reporting in undercover corners of the world our democracy democracy undone series continues as we turn to the next chapter in the authoritarians playbook exploiting religion in India Prime Minister Narendra commodious redrawing India's religious fault lines to consolidate power in the world's largest democracy in Kashmir the Indian government has stripped the only muslim-majority already state of its autonomy in Assam. hindu-nationalist mobs are lynching innocent Muslims in northern India. The state is constructing a Hindu temple on. What's what's left of a mosque? Desecrated by Hindu. Nationalist Mobs Modi is also redefining. What it means to be Indian who is a citizen listen who will become stateless? Dehumanizing indigenous people is violated illegal Bangladeshis. Because they didn't they're grabbing land. That's next time on the ground truth. podcast the last press run of local newspaper. The vindicator served readers in Youngstown. Ohio since eighteen sixty nine then then on August thirty first. They're printing presses shut down and the newsroom closed ending a legacy of family ownership in public service. Aw sadly the death of a local newspaper is not uncommon. youngstown joins fifteen hundred other communities across the US that have lost their their local news organization. There's a crisis and local news that has become a crisis for our democracy. The Ground Truth Project is confronting affronting that crisis head on. But we need your help. We're calling on you to help us raise three hundred thousand dollars to put three hundred journalists in the field in twenty twenty twenty and today for the first time ever thanks to news match and a generous ground truth challenge donor. Your donation can have triple the impact for every dollar. You give through December thirty first. You unlocked two dollars more or think of it this way by helping us send one reporter into into the field. We can send to additional reporters to cover the local stories that would otherwise go untold. This news can't wait. Go to the Ground Truth Project Dot Org to give today and thank you for supporting local news.
First Peacetime Train Robbery in U.S. / Austria-Hungary annexed Bosnia and Herzegovina - October 6
"Today's episode is brought to you by oxy clean. So I went on a backpacking trip that other weekend as per usual I ended up with a bunch of smelly close at the end of it but I used oxy clean odor blasters on the load of laundry before I did it. It was super easy and I came out with some super fresh smelling clothes. You've got to try oxy clean odor blasters for yourself to work your magic with oxy clean go to oxy dot com slash try me an order of free sample that's clean dot com slash t. r. y. m. e. for a free odor blaster sample while supplies last. At target each item you put in your cart brings more good to life like a coffee brand opens more is to black business natural laundry detergent that puts a lighter load on the planet wheelchair friendly Halloween costumes that said, make the lead in motion and make a celebrates beauty and every shade. Here. The good you want is always within reach because at target we believe in good we can all afford. Hey y'all were rerunning episodes today, which means you might hear to host enjoy the show. Welcome to the in history class from how stuff works dot Com and from the desk of stuff you missed in history class. It's the show where we explore the past one day at a time with a quick look at what happened today in history. Hello and welcome to the PODCAST. I'm Tracy v Wilson and it's October sixth. The Reno brothers staged the first peacetime train robbery in the United States on this day in eighteen, sixty six. Reason we specify that it's the first peacetime. Train robbery is there had been one train robbery before this one on May fifth sixty five just at the very end of the US civil war that one was on the Ohio and Mississippi Railroad, a group of men had fouled one of the tracks to cause the train to derail. Once the train hit that track and jumped off it, they robbed the passengers and the Adams Express Company car today Adams Express Company is an equity fund but at the time it was an express company that delivered letters and packages. The robbers were described as guerrillas they were dressed in civilian clothes, but armed with navy revolvers. One of the men was called Lieutenant by the others and another one was called captain. So most of the time because of all of that, and the fact that it happened right at the end of the civil war, this is considered part of the war rather than a matter of civilian robbery there. Also, of course, we're incidents during that war of people commandeering entire trains for military reasons. So the one that's usually noted as the first train robbery in the United States is that one that happened on October six, eighteen, sixty, six. The first transcontinental railroad had not yet been completed that would happen in eighteen, sixty, nine, but more and more train routes had been established and they were traveling through very remote parts of the United States. Often, there was not any kind of law enforcement or other person one might go to for help anywhere nearby and it didn't take long for people to figure out that a train full of mail and parcels and people who could afford train tickets far away from any source of law enforcement might be a good target to rob. On this case that people he would figure that out. We're the Reno brothers that was frank, Simeon John and William along with their associates. They boarded this train near Seymour Indiana once again on the Ohio and Mississippi. Railroad Adams Express car was once again their target the robbers made their way to that car and they demanded the keys to the safes. The attendant he was on duty in the car, they only had the keys for the local mail safe. So he opens that one up for them and they took all of its contents then the gang through the entire other safe off the train with the intent of getting it open later on then they jumped off the train so because they had gotten on near Seymour and they had left without. Anybody outside of the Adams Express car knowing what was going on the engineer just continued on that anything was amiss until somebody got his attention and told him about it, the Pinkerton and best, and this became the first of many many train robberies especially in the nineteenth century a lot of other gangs like Butch Cassidy's wild bunch and the James Younger gang became infamous for their train robbing a lot. Of Gangs specialized in robbing trains, and soon, trained companies were hiring armed guards and reinforcing their mail cars and otherwise trying to defend themselves from this newly created type of crime. The Reno brothers were all captured in eighteen sixty eight frank. Simeon. And William were hanged later on that year after being taken out of the prison where they were being held by a vigilante mob who then took the law. into their own hands, their brother John Though had been captured earlier. He was serving time in a different prison and he was spared that particular extrajudicial violence. Thanks so much to Tari Harrison, for her work on this show and you can subscribe to this day in history class on apple podcast Google podcasts, and wherever else yet your podcast and you can tune in tomorrow for the birth of Nobel laureate. My team instantly response to cyber threats. My team helps agencies accelerate to the cloud. My team brings innovation too complex. It operations joined the GD team to support insecure some of the most complex government defense and intelligence projects across the country own your next opportunity and career with challenging and impactful work apply. Now at GD dot com slash careers that's GD it. Dot Com slash careers ddat is an equal opportunity employer disability veteran. Let's imagine a world where no one ever cuts corners. Potato chip bags are filled to the top the car in front of you at the stoplight notices when it turns green will a place like this exists where script pizzas are placed in the square boxes and wings come in Jumbo, sides. We're talking about Ledo pizza with an whole new online ordering website for easy ordering Lido, pizzas square because Ledo pizza never cuts corners, check it out at Ledo Pizza Dot. COM Allow again, it's EAVES and you're listening to this day in. History Class A podcast at truly believes no day is Boring Today was October nineteen o eight. Austria Hungary informed the Ottoman Empire of his indexation of Bosnia and Herzegovina. This announcement set off what's known as the Bosnian crisis appeared of conflict between Austria Hungary and the Ottoman Empire. Under the eighteen seventy, eight treaty of Berlin Austria Hungary gained the right to occupy and administer the Ottoman. Empire's provinces of Bosnia and Herzegovina and the Sandjak of Novi Pas are. But Austria Hungary always had it sights set on permanent possession of the provinces? Bosnia and Herzegovina were widely sought after but Austria Hungary put a lot of work into developing infrastructure mines, factories, agriculture, and schools in Bosnia and Herzegovina. At. The same time ethnic and religious conflict grew within Bosnia and Herzegovina. And groups in the two provinces displayed nationalist ambitions. Young Turk Revolution broke out in the Ottoman Empire in nineteen eight and restored the Ottoman Constitution PT Seventy six and revived the Ottoman parliament. Vienna was afraid that the new authorities in the government of the Ottoman Empire would try to restore autumn political power in Bosnia and Herzegovina An. As a Pro Russia Serbia vied for control over the Sandjak of Novi. PAS. Are and Bosnia and Herzegovina Russia itself was destabilized after defeat in the Russo Japanese war. Foreign Minister of Austria, Hungary alloys craft lex up on our Paul staunch opportunity for Austria Hungary to assert his dominance in the Balkans. Austria Hungary's ambassador to Russia Layup Hall. Craft Fair. Stole set up a meeting between Aaron Paul and the Russian Minister of Foreign Affairs Alexander Petrovich is skis in September of Nineteen eight at Lau Arabia. What actually happened at the meaning is up for debate as no minutes of the meeting where relief. Is Boesky. It says that Russia would not object to the annexation and an exchange Austria Hungary would not object to open the Bosphorus and Dardanelles Straits two Russian warships. Is Volsky insisted on an international conference before the annexation took place but on October six the day after Bulgaria declared its independence from the Ottoman Empire Emperor Franz Joseph. The first Austria announced that it was annexed Bosnia and Herzegovina The withdrawal of the Hungarian army from Sandjak of Novi Pazar was also announced. But I. was. Not. Expecting the annexation to happen. So soon, he said that Aaron Paul did not tell him the date of annexation and that he did not know how Hungary plan on executing it before the matter was settled with other political power. Opposition to the annexation erupted in Europe Russia and the Balkans. France Britain Italy protested the annexation. Pan Slavic nationalists throughout Europe were unhappy with announcement. Serbia insisted that Austria Hungary seed part of the Sandjak of Novi Pazar to them and ski. Supported them. But Austria Hungary. Backed by Germany threaten, to invade Serbia. At. The end of the Bosnian crisis Austria Hungary seemed to have come out on top. After a boycott of austro-hungarian Goods Causes Commercial Losses Austria Hungary ended up paying an indemnity to the Ottomans and alienating many from Austrian policy. But the Ottoman Empire recognized the annexation, which Russia and Serbia accepted in March O nine. The next on the Treaty of Berlin was amended to accept the annexation. The. Nation's managed to avoid war but tense relations between Austria, Hungary Russia, and Serbia after the latter two faced such mutilation remained and contributed to the outbreak of World War One and nineteen fourteen. I'm Jeff Coat, and hopefully you know a little more about history today than you did yesterday. If you have any burning questions or comments you can leave us a note at T. D.. H. podcast on twitter, facebook or instagram. Or. You can go the old fashioned route and send us an email at this day at iheartmedia dot com. Thanks, for tuning in and we'll catch you tomorrow same place. For more podcasts from IHEART radio is iheartradio APP apple podcasts or wherever you listen to your favorite shows. Imagine this. You've been playing football for years dreaming of going pro. And it happens. Life is you know it changes with the phone call now finally, I've been called the real. Gold. This is Keegan Michael Key and welcome to draft it. This podcast series follows eight players as they entered the twenty twenty NFL draft. This is their real life as it unfolds in real time and each player tells his own story unfiltered. I'm not a first rounder, not even the top three rounder. This is something I've been dreaming out. We, go behind the scenes before during and after one of the biggest days of their lives, and we relive every detail from the players perspective. Please, join me on the first step in their journey the greatness. Welcome to draft it. Listen to drafted on the iheartradio APP apple podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts. Food is and always has been political. that. Wasn't clear before the events of two thousand, twenty five revealed this truth in a spectacular fashion. So this season were diving deeper learning about the nomadic roots of the philosophy people and the cultural significance of Matt. Dining. We traveled to Palestine to taste the milky distillate Iraq. And then to La Palma in the canary islands to drink local wine from a woman winemaker while considering the industry's male dominance. Were, questioning the morality of meet. The politics of language and why we don't say food. But rather food apartheid. This season, we're bringing you into the policies that influence and shape our food system. And along the way? Drinking coffee with you while discussing it's African origins. From the makers of Whitestone media its point of origin season three I'm inviting you to travel with me your host Steven. Satterfield. For another tour of the world of food worldwide. Listen to point of origin on the iheartradio APP apple podcast or wherever you get your podcasts.
Podcast Overview of Unit 5 From the First World Wars Beginning to the Second World Wars End
"In this introductory podcast to unit five we look at the overview of the period from nineteen fourteen to nineteen forty-five when you have two World Wars separated by twenty year period called the intro Germany decided to support Austria Hungary in the suppression of national desires in the Balkan regions for a variety of reasons that you can read about in your textbook this brought Germany and Austria into conflict with Russia which was one of the triggers powerful enough to keep the lid on these nationalist movements Austria Hungary was an ally of Germany and Germany was powerful of South Eastern Europe.
No mask? Give me 60 push ups! LBGT book publisher has to make disclaimers on childrens book.
"If you're not going to wear a mask in bali the police might make you do ups. Hungary orders in. Lgbt publisher to print disclaimers on children's books and an australian man missing for eighteen days survived on mushrooms. These are the weird stories for tuesday on weird af news the only daily weird news podcast hosted by a comedian. My name is jones e. Thank you for joining me. I got so weird stories from around the world. And i'm recording in a closet. Baby mainstream news listen to weird af news with jones. -i ending tourists. Who don't wear their masks with pushups. If fines and the threat of deportation won't get tourists to wear their covid masks. Maybe a little bit of exercise will according to the media. Anybody not wearing a mask in public in bali is either subject to a seven dollar fine or if they can't pay up they gotta drop and give you a fifty push-ups the push up numbers reduced to fifteen push ups for people wearing the masks improperly. But you know wearing a mask and nonetheless so if you've got one of those i'm just gonna wear it over the mouth situations. Then you gotta give fifteen push ups but if you're not wearing a mask it all it's fifty or pay seven bucks now. It doesn't say if that's seven dollars in bali bali bucks or seven in my bucks. Seven bali bugs by the way is about five cents my money. It's like. I know this. Because i've been to bali and i got a food delivery. That cost me twenty five cents. I was my mind was blown at how much my money went over there. How much my money went. That's that's proper. English jones thanks for bringing your public school education and your terrible grasp of the english language to this five day week podcasts. That were all subjected to listening to okay back to the article. Guess we have a quote here from bali police officer. And i'd imagine that's a great place to be a police officer bali because it's just such a beautiful place to tropical island all day long making people dropping fifty push-ups in the mud. What a great. What a great gig for law enforcement in bali. The cop said respect for the wearing of the mask by foreign tourists is extremely low. I they say they didn't know about the law. Then they say that they forgot about the law and that the mask is wet or that's damaged or they lost it whatever Yeah tourists are not being respectful over there. I mean at this point. You cannot say that you didn't know about a mask law. I mean there's a mask log globally. I assume every country has mask laws at this point. So that's no way to get out of this and the real problem is the foreign. Tourists officials are estimating that ninety percent of the people who are caught not wearing masks are actually foreign tourists. More than seventy people have received the mask. Fine in bali and thirty have been subjected to push ups at the thirty foreign interest as well though. I find it hard to believe that the foreign tourists don't have seven dollars on them now. I know bali's a cheap vacation spot but seven dollars really. You're a foreign tourist. You're in bali. You don't have seven bucks on you. I find that extremely difficult to believe. I think they just they would just rather not pay it like you know push ups. I mean 'cause never in your life. Do you have the opportunity to do like physical activity to pay your fine in lieu of cash so taking advantage of the moment. I might do fifty push-ups as well. What do you want jumping. Jacks to pull ups on this pine tree. How about that. Personally i would have loved to have been in the room when they decided that push ups. We're going to be the solution to this. As if the fine isn't low enough like we need something else. What what can they give us this free. They can give us some of their sweat. Get him on the ground. Make them do some push with their face in the dirt. I mean what other solutions did they come up with. Maybe we'll make him sing a song about that. You make him sing. Hey i'd like to see some of these tourists beat box. I think that'd be fun if we made them beat box instead of paying a fine. Well what if they teach us some swear words in their language about that. That doesn't cost anything. And i think that's valuable information of course and we get a lot of laughs around the precinct if we could all swear and let's say french you know what if we made them. Do the chicken dance or luck that one very much hungary orders. Lgbt publisher to print disclaimers on children's books hungary's government which has made hostility to lgbt people. Essential part of its agenda. On tuesday ordered a publisher to print disclaimers identifying books containing quote behaviour inconsistent with traditional gender roles. My god this is ridiculous. The government said the action was needed to protect consumers. Oh protect consumers. Oh while you're so concerned. Hungary government protect consumers from what from being happy from living the life of happiness and freedom. The dangerous ideas that are located within the confines of this. Lgbt children's book my goodness my goodness protect children from these things. Universal love and other principals. The government says the action was needed to protect consumers after some association for lesbian bisexual and trans women published a fairy tale anthology. Titled wonderland is for everyone which included some stories with lgbt themes which is totally fine. See what the big deal is this. Obviously this is a problem with the hungary government. Which i wasn't so familiar with it. Sounds terrible this book whose authors say is intended to teach children to be respectful of people of all backgrounds features. A tale of a doe who was granted a wish to become a buck and a poem. A poem about a prince who marries another prince other stories depict minorities in a positive light including roma. I don't know what that is. Roman not just says roma roma and disabled people. The character snow white is renamed leaf brown and has dark skin. Here is a quote from the government office. The book is sold as a fairytale called so on its cover and designed accordingly but it hides the fact that it depicts behaviour inconsistent with traditional gender roles. Dude you're talking about children's books here. Okay i saw a children's book that was co. it was entitled like alligators that fart sort of fantasy books that you have for children. I mean really you're going to you're gonna just put these confines. On children's books is stories where the kids best friend is a dragon. I mean we'll get you out of your mind. Hungary government and i mean this behavior by the government is wrong on so many levels first of all. The book obviously is teaching children to be respectful of people of all backgrounds. What is wrong with that. That's that's something we need in the world right now. People that are respectful of all backgrounds. I've just witnessed the capitol building in my country being torn apart because people aren't respectful of all views backgrounds. Is that what you want in your country as well hungary because you just to split people right down the middle with moves like this really take take a lesson from the. Us my friend. You want people to be you. Want children to learn to respect people of all backgrounds all sexual orientations everything colors religions. And it's books like this. That can help. Lay the foundation of that okay. That's that's a that's point. Eight point b. is you're immediately a passing the buck on the responsibility of the parents when you do such things parents when they choose a book or a movie or music or whatever it is for their child should familiarize themselves with the content that lies within before they purchased that for their child. Okay so the parent. It's the parent's choice whether they want their child to be exposed to stories about lgbt relationships at a certain age. It's the parents. Choose your choice government. It's the parent's choice. And therefore when you do this you're removing the choice from the parents and you're allowing parents to just you know not stop and take a parental responsibility action in that moment okay. I'm i'm trying to get off my soapbox okay The bottom of the article says in may hungary voted to end legal recognition of trans people in november. The government amended the constitution to t- to declare that in a family. The father is a man and the mother is a woman meaning that homosexual entrance couples could no longer adopt children. I mean this kind of stuff is just. You're taking a step back in your culture is what you're doing really It's twenty twenty. I don't know of hungary. Hungary has gotten the memo. But it's twenty twenty hungary. did you get the memo. There's gay people. There's trans people. There's hot and spicy cheetos. I mean get with it hungary. You like podcasts. You're listening to my podcast. Maybe you thought yourself. I'd like to make a podcast too difficult. No not with anchor. Anchor has free creation tools. That allow you to record. Edit your podcast from your phone your computer anchor distributor podcast to apple spotify stitcher and more. They have advertising integration. So you can even make a little money off your podcast everything you need to make a podcast in one place. Download the free anchor app or go to anchor dot fm to get started and good luck with your podcast. Good luck with your creation. Good luck with your life man. An australian man missing eighteen days survived on mushrooms. Yes was missing for over two weeks. He was found after surviving on mushrooms and dam water drinking the dam water dam water dam water like damn water son. Which damn water we talking about. Search efforts were launched after robert webber age fifty eight went missing in the state of queensland and then they were called off police say as soon as the search effort was called off they found him near a dam on sunday by a property owner who has been identified as in a australian local politician. Mr weber was suffering exposure to the elements but otherwise was safe and well police say before sunday. He'd been seen leaving hotel in the town of kill kvant with his dog on january. Sixth here into trouble. When his cog got stuck in the dirt on a farm out. This accident is terrible. Let me let me repeat that before sunday. He had been seen leaving a hotel in the town of van with his dog on january six. He ran into trouble when his car got stuck in the dirt on a farm road. What happened to the dog. Did he's free the dog be run. Big get help bring us help. Police say mr weber spent three days in the caf before running out of water and setting off on foot then became loss but remained near a dam where he survived by sleeping on the ground drinking dam water and eating mushrooms. He's very resourceful didn't he. Why didn't you keep walking. I mean he was on someone's property. I assume you know it wasn't that far from the house because the politician just probably went for a stroll in discovered him an extensive air and ground search was suspended though after failing to find him during the first eighteen days but local property owners in the police were told. Keep an eye out for this guy now. A politician named tony jarrett and his wife were reported to have found mr weber on sunday. Only two miles from where his car had been discovered after searching their cattle farm. Here's a quote from mister parrot. He was sitting under a tree near a dam waving at us. We've been passed this damn on numerous occasions over the last week or so and when we saw him. There was quite extraordinary. Really he'd been sitting there just waving. Hey over there. i'm almost dead. I'm helped me. I've been living on mushrooms losing weight. Rapidly i'm tripping balls over here near the dam. I thought the dam was a ufo for the longest time. But now i see that it's just a damn could you save me please. Mr weber's dog has not been found. The article says my goodness. How do you not find the dog guys. Get on the case for the dog. Poor dog the dog's not gonna live on shrooms and dam water. The dog was like what are we eating. I'm out of here bro. i will see you later. No no you stay near that damn and eat. Eat mushrooms bro. I'm a dog. I don't eat mushrooms okay. I'm going to go try and catch something that's tasty. I'll see you later bro. Maybe the dog from the opportunity just to bounce on this guy forever. This guy getting lost in the woods. Not this time buddy not this. I'm outta here man eating mushrooms the last time we spent five weeks eating sprouts. I'm not doing that again. Robert outta here. Hey what's up everyone. Thanks for listening to another episode of weird of news. You could be doing anything but instead you listened to. This and i am grateful. I have so many shots to give starting with an email. I got a vivian. Steel wrote me a lovely email with the title. You deserve way more recognition and money than a lot of so-called influencers which is sweet. Thank you i agree. I deserve more recognition than influences. But they're very attractive. And i'm not so so they get that the email from vivian which is wonderful just to say i love your weird news and listen every day you make the world a nicer place for sure from blackpool uk. So letting you know that. Chockablock means very full. Hardly any room. And zimmer frames are what you call walkers and there's nothing wrong with queuing. Ll it's a fab your song about hunting. Bigfoot was totes hilaire. I e totally hilarious. If you are posh which. I'm not and finally impressed. That you know frank zappa as you are so young. I discovered we're news by accident on my google home and it makes my day in these depressing times. Thank you for what you do. Thank you for what you do. Vivian steel which is make people smile with your amazing emails. And that's exactly what i did when i read this so i appreciate that. I got a new patron. A michael conroy. Thank you for joining the patriots. And michael conroy. Mccollum roy joined the patriarch and singer. Michael conroy joined the patriotic joint. Enjoy the extra content michael conroy. Enjoy the extra content conroy. Is the bomb micron. Read you are the bomb for joining. the patriot. Enjoyed the extra weird content. That lies there in. Also what do we have here. Oh then got some people who reached out on instagram. So here we go instagram. People Brenna from the uk. She wrote. I have a small group of friends listening from cheltenham. And she asked if i believe in bigfoot while shutout to you brianna and listening cheltenham's cheltenham. Uk love to hang out with you guys. Maybe someday i'll make it over there. save me. A seat in cheltenham is what i'm saying. And she asked if i believe in bigfoot and i said i asked. I said no answered that in the in the episode yesterday. I hope you guys enjoyed the bigfoot song. By the way it's stupendous Okay then what else do we have. Jessica avia from so cow. Just the big. What's up to her Scott and jenny from lincoln. uk Wrote me and the missus. Listen to weird avenues every night in bed. I love counting down the days to florida friday. You make our day every day. My friend You make my day. Scott and jenny for being fans of the show and sending me a nice message. Then i have logan in his mother. Maria from south carolina he writes. Love your podcasts. It's it's our morning routine. We listen while mama's getting ready for work. And i'm getting ready for my college classes so man i'm just so humbled and grateful to be part of your day Thank you so much. Logan shot up to logan marine south and south carolina. Also shut the mark. Lear in new york and then we have Yummy rotten from akron. Ohio who wrote a thank you for brightening my mornings especially in times like no. You've given me reasons to smile and laugh in times. Where i didn't think i could which is like the sweetest thing man. Oh that's lovely. Thank you for reaching out with that. Nice note also adalina in the uk. Big shot the adalina she wrote. I love your day news. I listen to it every morning. It literally makes my day. Thanks and you literally made my day adalina with your kind message of support. Also shout out to alisyn from halifax canada love. My canadians. Also have sarah p. from texas big shout out to serra from texas whore. Hey bogota in colombia. That mean tremendous that. I have fan in colombia. i never thought in a million years. I'd have someone listening from said it's bogota rat. Did i get that goethe. So there was many abe goethe though. That's what that's what i was thinking of. Was that an actor. I can't remember bogota colombia. please forgive me whore. Hey i appreciate you. Whore he wrote. I'm a big fan especially florida friday. Could i'm spreading the florida news. All the way to columbia is an amazing. Aren't you guys happy. That i'm spreading the culture of degeneracy down to a man. Imagine spread like the of florida everywhere in every place that starts to learn about florida gets like like contracts. A meth addiction. Oh man that's terrible. Nightmares of such things. I could never live with myself. Okay well thank you guys for reaching out you can do so by sending an email to funny jones a dot gmail.com or on instagram. It's at funny jones. You can be like michael. Conroy joined the patron by going to patriot. Dot com slash weird af news or going to weird af. News dot com. As always. you can call the show too. If you wanna say something six four six four five zero twenty twelve phone lanza. A plan phone lines are open.
No mask? Give me 60 push ups! LBGT book publisher has to make disclaimers on childrens book.
"If you're not going to wear a mask in bali the police might make you do ups. Hungary orders in. Lgbt publisher to print disclaimers on children's books and an australian man missing for eighteen days survived on mushrooms. These are the weird stories for tuesday on weird af news the only daily weird news podcast hosted by a comedian. My name is jones e. Thank you for joining me. I got so weird stories from around the world. And i'm recording in a closet. Baby mainstream news listen to weird af news with jones. -i binding tourists. Who don't wear their masks with pushups. If fines and the threat of deportation won't get tourists to wear their covid masks. Maybe a little bit of exercise will according to the media. Anybody not wearing a mask in public in bali is either subject to a seven dollar fine or if they can't pay up they gotta drop and give you a fifty push-ups the push up numbers reduced to fifteen push ups for people wearing the masks improperly. But you know wearing a mask and nonetheless so if you've got one of those i'm just gonna wear it over the mouth situations. Then you gotta give fifteen push ups but if you're not wearing a mask it all it's fifty or pay seven bucks now. It doesn't say if that's seven dollars in bali bali bucks or seven in my bucks. Seven bali bugs by the way is about five cents my money. It's like. I know this. Because i've been to bali and got a food delivery. That cost me. Twenty five cents. I was my mind was blown at how much my money went over there. How much my money went. That's that's proper. English jones thanks for bringing your public school education and your terrible grasp of the english language to this five day week. Podcast that were all subjected to listening to okay back to the article. Guess we have a quote here from bali police officer. And i'd imagine that's a great place to be a police officer bali because it's just such a beautiful place to tropical island all day long making people dropping fifty push-ups in the mud. What a great. What a great gig for law enforcement in bali. The cop said respect for the wearing of the mask by foreign tourists. Strictly low i. They say they didn't know about the law. Then they say that they forgot about the law and that the mask is wet or that's damaged or they lost it whatever Yeah tourists are not being respectful over there. I mean at this point. You cannot say that you didn't know about a mask law. I mean there's a mask log globally. I assume every country has mask laws at this point. So that's no way to get out of this and the real problem is the foreign. Tourists officials are estimating that ninety percent of the people who are caught not wearing masks are actually foreign tourists. More than seventy people have received the mask. Fine in bali and thirty have been subjected to push ups at the thirty foreign interest as well though. I find it hard to believe that the foreign tourists don't have seven dollars on them now. I know bali's a cheap vacation spot but seven dollars really. You're a foreign tourist. You're in bali. You don't have seven bucks on you. I find that extremely difficult to believe. I think they just they would just rather not pay it like you know push ups. I mean 'cause never in your life. Do you have the opportunity to do like physical activity to pay your fine in lieu of cash so taking advantage of the moment. I might do fifty push-ups as well. What do you want jumping jacks to. I'll do some pull ups on this pine tree. How about that personally. I would have loved to have been in the room when they decided that push ups. We're going to be the solution to this. As if the fine isn't low enough like we need something else. What what can they give us this free. They can give us some of their sweat. Get him on the ground. Make them do some push with their face in the dirt. I mean what other solutions did they come up with. Maybe we'll make him sing a song about that. You make him sing. Hey i'd like to see some of these torres beat box. I think that'd be fun if we made them beat box instead of paying a fine. Well what if they teach us some swear words in their language about that. That doesn't cost anything. And i think that's valuable information of course and we get a lot of laughs around the precinct if we could all swear and let's say french you know what if we made them. Do the chicken dance or luck that one very much hungary orders. Lgbt publisher to print disclaimers on children's books hungary's government which has made hostility to lgbt people. Essential part of its agenda. On tuesday ordered a publisher to print disclaimers identifying books containing quote behaviour inconsistent with traditional gender roles. My god this is ridiculous. The government said the action was needed to protect consumers. Oh protect consumers. Oh while you're so concerned. Hungary government protect consumers from what from being happy from living the life of happiness and freedom. The dangerous ideas that are located in within the confines of this. Lgbt children's book my goodness my goodness protect children from these things. Universal love and other principals. The government says the action was needed to protect consumers after some association for lesbian bisexual and trans women published a fairy tale anthology. Titled wonderland is for everyone which included some stories with lgbt themes which is totally fine. See what the big deal is this. Obviously this is a problem with the hungary government which i wasn't so familiar with it. Sounds terrible This book whose authors say is intended to teach children to be respectful of people of all backgrounds features. A tale of a doe who was granted a wish to become a buck and a poem. A poem about a prince who marries another prince other stories depict minorities in a positive light including roma. I don't know what that is. Roman not just says roma roma and disabled people. The character snow white is renamed leaf brown and has dark skin. Here is a quote from the government office. The book is sold as a fairytale called so on its cover and designed accordingly but it hides the fact that it depicts behaviour inconsistent with traditional gender roles. Dude you're talking about children's books here. Okay i saw a children's book that was co. it was entitled like alligators that fart sort of fantasy books that you have for children. I mean really you're going to you're gonna just put these confines. On children's books is stories where the kids best friend is a dragon. I mean we'll get you out of your mind. Hungary government and i mean this behavior by the government is wrong on so many levels first of all. The book obviously is teaching children to be respectful of people of all backgrounds. What is wrong with that. That's that's something we need in the world right now. People that are respectful of all backgrounds. I've just witnessed the capitol building in my country being torn apart because people aren't respectful of all views backgrounds. Is that what you want in your country as well hungary because you just to split people right down the middle with moves like this really take take a lesson from the. Us my friend. You want people to be you. Want children to learn to respect people of all backgrounds all sexual orientations everything colors religions. And it's books like this. That can help. Lay the foundation of that okay. That's that's a that's point. Eight point b. is you're immediately a passing the buck on the responsibility of the parents when you do such things parents when they choose a book or a movie or music or whatever it is for their child should familiarize themselves with the content that lies within before they purchased that for their child. Okay so the parent. It's the parent's choice whether they want their child to be exposed to stories about lgbt relationships at a certain age. It's the parent's choice. It's not your choice government. It's the parent's choice. And therefore when you do this you're removing the choice from the parents and you're allowing parents to just you know not stop and take a parental responsibility action in that moment okay. I'm i'm trying to get off my soapbox okay The bottom of the article says in may hungary voted to end legal recognition of trans people in november. The government amended the constitution to t- to declare that in a family. The father is a man and the mother is a woman meaning that homosexual entrance couples could no longer adopt children. I mean this kind of stuff is just. You're taking a step back in your culture is what you're doing really It's twenty twenty. I don't know of hungary. Hungary has gotten the memo. But it's twenty twenty hungary. did you get the memo. There's gay people. There's trans people. There's hot and spicy cheetos. I mean get with it hungary. You like podcasts. You're listening to my podcast. Maybe you thought yourself. I'd like to make a podcast too difficult. No not with anchor. Anchor has free creation tools. That allow you to record. Edit your podcast from your phone your computer anchor distributor podcast to apple spotify stitcher and more. They have advertising integration. So you can even make a little money off your podcast everything you need to make a podcast in one place. Download the free anchor app or go to anchor dot fm to get started and good luck with your podcast. Good luck with your creation. Good luck with your life man. An australian man missing eighteen days survived on mushrooms. Yes a man was missing for over two weeks. He was found after surviving on mushrooms and dam. Water drinking the dam water dam water dam water or like damn water son which damn water we talking about. Search efforts were launched after robert webber h fifty eight went missing in the state of queensland and then they were called off police say as soon as the search effort was called off they found him near a dam on sunday by a property owner who has been identified as in a australian local politician. Mr weber was suffering exposure to the elements but otherwise was safe and well police say before sunday. He'd been seen leaving hotel in the town of kill kvant with his dog on january. Sixth here into trouble. When his cog got stuck in the dirt on a farm out. This accident is terrible. Let me let me repeat that before sunday. He had been seen leaving a hotel in the town of van with his dog on january six. He ran into trouble when his car got stuck in the dirt on a farm road. What happened to the dog. Did he's free the dog be run. Big get help bring us help. Police say mr weber spent three days in the caf before running out of water and setting off on foot then became loss but remained near a dam where he survived by sleeping on the ground drinking dam water and eating mushrooms. He's very resourceful. But why didn't he. Why didn't you keep walking. I mean he was on someone's property. I assume you know it wasn't that far from the house because the politician just probably went for a stroll in discovered him an extensive air and ground search was suspended though after failing to find him during the first eighteen days but local property owners in the police were told. Keep an eye out for this guy now. A politician named tony jarrett and his wife were reported to have found mr weber on sunday. Only two miles from where his car had been discovered after searching their cattle farm. Here's a quote from mister parrot. He was sitting under a tree near a dam waving at us. We've been passed this damn on numerous occasions over the last week or so and when we saw him. There was quite extraordinary. Really he'd been sitting there just waving. Hey over there. i'm almost dead. I'm helped me. I've been living on mushrooms losing weight. Rapidly i'm tripping balls over here near the damn. I thought the dam was a ufo for the longest time. But now i see that it's just a damn could you save me please. Mr weber's dog has not been found. The article says my goodness. How do you not find the dog guys. Get on the case for the dog. Poor dog the dog's not gonna live on shrooms and dam water. The dog was like what are we eating. I'm out of here bro. i will see you later. No no you stay near that damn and eat. Eat mushrooms bro. I'm a dog. I don't eat mushrooms okay. I'm going to go try and catch something that's tasty. I'll see you later bro. Maybe the dog from the opportunity just to bounce on this guy forever. This guy getting lost in the woods. Not this time buddy not this. I'm outta here man eating mushrooms the last time we spent five weeks eating sprouts of doing that again robert outta here. Hey what's up everyone. Thanks for listening to another episode of weird of news. You could be doing anything but instead you listened to. This and i am grateful. I have so many shots to give starting with an email. I got a vivian. Steel wrote me a lovely email with the title. You deserve way more recognition and money than a lot of so-called influencers which is sweet. Thank you i agree. I deserve more recognition than influences. But they're very attractive. And i'm not so so they get that the email from vivian which is wonderful just to say i love your weird news and listen every day you make the world a nicer place for sure from blackpool uk. So letting you know that. Chockablock means very full. Hardly any room. And zimmer frames are what you call walkers and there's nothing wrong with queuing. Ll it's a fab word. Your song about hunting. Bigfoot was totes hilaire. I e totally hilarious. If you are posh which. I'm not and finally impressed. That you know frank zappa as you are so young. I discovered we're news by accident on my google home and it makes my day in these depressing times. Thank you for what you do. Thank you for what you do. Vivian steel which is make people smile with your amazing emails. And that's exactly what i did when i read this so i appreciate that. I got a new patron. A michael conroy. Thank you for joining the patriots. And michael conroy. Mccollum roy joined the patriarch and singer. Michael conroy joined the patriotic joint. Enjoy the extra content michael conroy. Enjoy the extra content conroy. Is the bomb micron. Read you are the bomb for joining. the patriot. Enjoyed the extra weird content. That lies there in. Also what do we have here. Oh then got some people who reached out on instagram. So here we go instagram. People Brenna from the uk. She wrote. I have a small group of friends listening from cheltenham. And she asked if i believe in bigfoot while shutout to you brianna and everyone listening cheltenham's cheltenham uk I'd love to hang out with you guys. maybe someday make it over there Save me a seat in. Cheltenham is what i'm saying. And she asked if i believe in bigfoot and i said i asked. I said no answered that in the in the episode yesterday. I hope you guys enjoyed the bigfoot song. By the way it's it was stupendous Okay then what else do we have. Jessica avia from so cow. Just the big. What's up to her Scott and jenny from lincoln. uk Scott wrote me. And the missus listen to weird avenues. Every night in bed. I love counting down the days to florida friday. You make our day every day. My friend You make my day. Scott and jenny for being fans of the show and sending me a nice message. Then i have logan in his mother. Maria from south carolina he writes. Love your podcasts. It's it's our morning routine. We listen while mama's getting ready for work. And i'm getting ready for my college classes so man i'm just so humbled and grateful to be part of your day Thank you so much. Logan shot up to logan marine south and south carolina. Also shut the mark. Lear in new york and then we have Yummy rotten from akron. Ohio who wrote a thank you for brightening my mornings especially in times like no. You've given me reasons to smile and laugh in times where. I didn't think i could the sweetest thing man. Oh that's just so lovely. Thank you for that nice note also adalina in the uk. Big shot the adalina. She wrote. I love your day news. I listen to it every morning. It literally makes my day. Thanks and you literally made my day at alina with your kind message of support. Also shout out to alisyn from halifax canada love. My canadians also have sarah p. from texas big shout out to serra from texas jorges bogota in colombia that that i have fan in colombia i never thought in a million years. I'd have someone listening from said it's bogota rat. Did i get that goethe so there was so many abe goethe though. That's what that's what i was thinking of. Was that an actor. I can't remember bogota colombia. please forgive me whore. Hey i appreciate you for he wrote. I'm a big fan especially florida friday. Could i'm spreading the florida news. All the way to columbia. Isn't that amazing. Aren't you guys happy. That i'm spreading the culture of degeneracy down to a man. Imagine spread like the of florida everywhere in every place that starts to learn about florida gets like like contracts. A meth addiction. Oh man that's terrible. Nightmares of such things. I could never live with myself. Okay well thank you guys for reaching out you can do so by sending an email to funny jones a gmail.com or on instagram. It's at funny jones. You can be like michael. Conroy joined the patron by going to patriot. Dot com slash weird af news or going to weird af. News dot com. As always. you can call the show too. If you wanna say something six four six four five zero twenty twelve phone lonzo. A plan phone lines are open.
Moths Flee or Face Bats Depending on Toxicity
"This is scientific American sixty seconds science. I'm Suzanne barred about twelve thousand species of Tiger Tiger Moth Earth. Some of them swoop and dive out of harm's way when Hungary bat tries to make them a meal but other tiger moth species are more blase I say they just don't bother to flee from Hungary bats and I really just wanted to know why why the difference what factors might be influencing whether a species. She's is more or less likely to perform these. Evasive maneuvers. Wake Forest University behavioral ecologist. Nick Dowdy he says it's a matter of taste i. Some of the malls are delicious but others are toxic and tastes terrible when the airborne predators catch these unappetizing moths. They'll spit them out. Giving bring the insects a new lease on life in a field experiment dowdy and his colleague William Connor filmed health five different species of tiger. Moths responded to bat attacks. Ax and what we found. was that those species which were really toxic so when the bats captured them they almost never ate them. Those species are much more likely likely to be. What we call nonchalance species that do not perform evasive maneuvers very often on the other hand species that were really palatable? We're much more likely to perform those evasive maneuvers. Almost in a sense sort of hedging their bets because if they don't make that escape if they are captured by a bat those species these are more likely to be another factor. Is that evasive maneuvers. have their own set of risks which may be why unpalatable. Moths tend to avoid them for for example diving away from Bats Burns fuel gives the insects less time to seek out mates and could expose them to other perils such as getting stuck in water or there could be predators on the ground like mice and other mammals the study is in the Journal. Frontiers in ecology and evolution. Doughty is now trying to identify The chemical compounds responsible for making some tiger. Moths taste bad wants. Those findings are in chemical analysis of museum. Specimens could help reveal l. how rare endangered or even extinct insects have behaved around predators. Study animal behavior even without a living organism. That's pretty amazing. Other animals with conspicuous warning signals such as garishly coloured poison dart frogs and foul smelling skunks are also tone to be slow. Movers perhaps a few deadly toxic or just plain stink can pay to be lazy. Thanks for listening. For Scientific Scientific Americans sixty second science. I'm Suzanne Bard.
A coronavirus coup in Hungary
"This episode is brought to you by us. Cellular there's never been a better time to switch to US cellular because now when you do you'll get fifty percent off. Select New smartphones like the Samsung Galaxy S. ten or the Google Pixel for a great choice on a great phone. Now that's fair. Us Cellular Choose Fair. Terms apply in times of crisis leaders often crew unprecedented amounts of power. And then sometimes they don't give it back. Does it concern right now that this is happening? Globally during the corona virus pandemic with Hungary which may now be Europe's first modern authoritarian state leading the way. I'm ZAC Beecham here as always with Jen Williams and Alex Ward on worldly part of the VOX media podcast network worldly deem. Hey what's going on? I'm under a blanket. Good Jen is under a blanket. It's super funny looking. It's like a floral print defaming. Maybe there's a few leaves in there and it keeps like riding over Jen's face sometimes we just see a mouth in some disembodied tattoos talking to us it's like enjoy interacting with somebody So yeah as you. Listeners are aware of at this point we are recording from our home studios which is to say just places in our actual houses. We apologize for any errors in the quality of sound so we are talking about a common feature of crises of any sort. Which is that leaders. Who have authoritarian tendencies often tend to use them to expand their own power? And this is true. Both in the thornberry in states where it's to be expected but also in countries that are nominally democratic but have elected leaders who have consolidated their own power and used it to undermine the process of elections themselves. No country is more known for this phenomenon. Hungary where just in this past week? The parliament which is controlled by Prime Minister Viktor. Orban's government passed a bill that would essentially give him the ability to rule by dictate for as long as he wants not just the duration of the crisis but literally as as long as he sees fit to be in charge of the country and ruling it by his own orders Jenner. Alex is there any other order like that? You're aware of in any democracy around the world democracy. No we see these kinds of orders all the time in authoritarian countries the sweeping power here in Hungary is so pervasive. I mean we'll go into the details momentarily but I think just generally speaking. It's important to note that is effectively. Cut off any form of dissent especially from journalists that has given the authorities a lot of power to kind of jail people for staying outside of quarantines wherever may be antidote suspended a lot of the political processes whether it be elections whether it be actual having a parliament etc and so like this is unheard of in the democratic world? I mean democratic nations. Do take a lot of steps that trample on civil freedoms and whatnot. And we'll get into those but this is way beyond this is very much a centralizing the power in the executive and in Orban's specifically in Hungary and so this this is why it's it's stepped outside of the norm and broken through Outside of all the other cases that will soon talk about this is so much further and so much more authoritarian than we've seen and it's even leading calls. I mean it's gotten so bad that even some in the European Union are saying maybe it's time to kick Hungary out. Yeah Zach longtime worldly listeners. Probably know that you did a really awesome reporting trip. In Hungary in the not too distant past time has no meaning anymore. We are in the ninety third day of March. I think that's correct. Yes even though. It's April first one one recording this and since you know a lot about Hungary and have done some really great on the ground reporting there. I wonder if you could just walk us through in detail. What specifically or bonded what these orders are and how he pushed it through. Because I'm still you know I know the kind of general outline but I wonder if you could just walk us through the details here so it's important to understand the background here. That is to say what the Orban's government has been doing for the past ten years. Roughly that it's been in power or was prime minister of the country is not his first time in power. He was shortly after the end of the Cold War and his party lost an election an early one and he decided afterwards that the problem was not with anything that he had done. But with the voters and the media and so on that yet his his feet as faction or fee dash depending on how accurate. You WanNa be in terms of the Hungarian pronunciation. I'm not going to be accurate this time because my Hungarian is very very bad or bond after after taking power this time around systematically worked to undermine the free functioning of democracy. Now this is not being until right now a overtly authoritarian takeover of the state. That's a relatively new thing What he has done instead is very very. Subtly corrupt the system to rig the playing field of elections specifically parliamentary elections. The important ones and to make it difficult for anyone to fund or start off any meaningful opposition bloc so this involves things like redistributing economic and regulatory favors towards his friends and his political allies buying up media broadcasters and newspapers to the point where something like ninety percents of all media outlets and Hungary by one estimate are owned either by the government or by its associates that is to say business leaders or rich people who've been empowered by the state to work with them and to make it so that elections are functionally noncompetitive and by functionally non competitive. I don't mean that opposition can't run and they can say what they wanna say can do all of those things until recently you didn't go to jail in Hungary for expressing to send what they did was make it such that it was already difficult to begin with because they gerrymandered. The map pretty profoundly so that feed us would have structural advantages in the electorate. They also would not give equal time to opposition members. They would do tricks like stand up faked parties with similar names. This one is less proven but so plausible or voted. Ballet's Lee. Yeah. They tried this before. That's crazy I heard on the underground for people in Hungary but the point was to make it so that it still looks like a democratic political system. It talked like a democratic political system. But you know when you're you're actually paying attention close and very very detailed attention to the way the electoral system functioned. You'd realize that this is not an electoral system at all. It's a way of legitimising. One man rule They also amended the constitution of variety of different ways with a two-thirds majority which they've won repeatedly in these rigged elections. So when I was there in two thousand eighteen there so live debate as to whether Hungary was authoritarian or democratic state and I made the case in my piece to link to in the notes that it was not a democratic state that it was essentially making a mockery of the idea of democracy and there are still some people in the West even who have defended this as merely an expression of the populist. Right-wing will in Hungarian society when in fact or on his real popular support. I don't want to understate this. But in fact or buying You know in the last election. He won under fifty percent of the vote but over two thirds of the seats in Parliament. And that's even despite systematic rigging with the media. This isn't a guy who's winning on a wave of popular support even though he does have some in reality the current order. You know part of me wonders why the decided to issue this at all because it it strips away the subtle and clever veneer that the government had used claim that they were still democratic state as Alex said it indefinitely suspended democratic procedure most notably by giving ORB on the ability to issue authoritative dictates. So he just sort of says so literal dust. Yes exactly right. What's more is that? This order doesn't have an expiration date. It doesn't say until X. amount of Kovic cases are under control It it just as long as or bond himself decides that he wants to rule this way he can now it's possible for parliament's to vote and remove the powers from them. And maybe they will but if they do. It won't be in a way that provides meaningful constraints on Orban's power because again it is controlled two thirds by feed as the court also has oversight but Orban has systematically worked to pack the courts with his cronies and neuter the courts jurisdiction to make it difficult for them to overturn the ruling. And if you want to report critically on this if you're in the ten percent of media outlets that are not owned by the government or one of its allies you can be put in jail for five years under this legislation for spreading false information. Now this is supposed to be in theory about Corona virus of course when you have one strong man in charge guy who's again and again demonstrated his authoritarian instincts. There's no doubt that what this means is. He wants to power and he wants to jail people who threaten them. Just to play devil's advocate here and you know I don't actually you agree with this. But there is the corona virus crisis in Europe right. There's one here in the United States. There's pandemic going on first of all KINDA WANNA know. What is the current situation in Hungary? Like are they in the same kind of situation that like in Italy or Spain or even parts of the? Us like New York to be part of this. Bill basically is allowing like you said him to Orban's had basically issued dictates from the top down but it would seem to maybe make some sense as we're seeing potentially in the US of needing a strong federal government to handle things at a federal level rather than letting local and state or regional leaders making kind of add. Hawk Patrick Decision so one. What's the situation like to? Is there any possibility that this is actually a good move? Even if it doesn't end that itself is pretty scary. Yeah those are fair questions. And they're both wrong so the last amount of cases I've seen and I'm sure the situation changes all the time but last estimate I saw was about four hundred or so positive cases at hungry. That's incredibly small compared to what we've seen in Italy Spain the United States. I've seen in in South Korea and elsewhere the notion that Hungary's hastings such a crisis that requires A dictator literally from the top to solve. The crisis is mute It's never good to have four hundred seven people sick this way but it is not necessarily worse. It's not even close to one of the worst cases in the world. Plus we've also seen democracies handle these crises without needing dictates We've see south. Korea is a good example Heck I know the United States situations out of control but we've ramped up testing and a whole bunch of other measures without needing dictatorial rule. So I guess it's been proven as you do not need authoritarianism or as Zach also wrote eloquently before and we'll show like this notion of authoritarian envy if only we had these strongman rulers in charge. We would somehow be able to curb the scourge early enough to maybe try to answer. Questions is why Hungary doing this now. Y so blatantly and I can't say to have any special knowledge here but if I were a betting man I would say that Hungary is in the EU and so it had to abide by even a thin veneer of democratic practice at a time when everyone is focused on only one thing and especially when a lot of EU countries are facing a lot of this problem. France Spain Italy. Their attention turned elsewhere. And now that thin veneer doesn't need to be there anymore and what's helpful. I guess for someone like or bond is when you make these kinds of laws. When make these kinds of moves? They tend to stick. It's really hard to remove them. And so yeah. We're all criticizing and they'll be podcast episodes about Orban's doing a bad thing but this too shall pass and these laws will remain. And that's what I worry that. He's taken advantage of the small window to probably do something he's wanted to do. But had some constraint against and none of that constraint has gone he's gone full-throttle. Yeah it strikes me Alex to that point as a serious case of authoritarian overreach in some ways like like counterproductive. Move on the Orban's governments part so for one thing as you've pointed out and I it is simply incorrect. That authoritarian powers are necessary to combat the current virus. In fact if you look across cases I spoke to a number of different experts about this. There's no evidence that authoritarian states are performing better and some of the worst countries for example Iran and early on China failed due to the nature of their authoritarian systems. And that's part of why we have a global outbreak to begin with but contrast some democracies like South Korea. Taiwan had performed relatively. Well right. It's just. There's no systematic comparison argument for why you need authoritarian rule by one person or one political party powers in order to do the the the measures necessary to contain corona virus. Which are compatible with you. Know Still Standard Democratic functioning. The second point is I think Oregon and this is a little bit of speculation. But it's based in part on talking to people who know him personally used to work with him including one legislator who's in his party until she realized he was and quit Is that he. He is a guy who really wants and likes to have power right. He wants to rule as a one person states. That is what he's been building towards. It was frustrating for him to have to put up with even the veneer of a democratic system even though it was cleverly designed to keep him not a foul of EU rules about democracy. You're supposed to still be a democracy if you're going to be in European Union and it is a big deal for Hungary to be in the EU reason being the EU gives them a tremendous amount of subsidies which the government has used to funnel money to their preferred businesses and private sector leaders and also just generally keep their economy afloat site poor management by the organ regime. So it's strings overreach. Not just because it's unnecessary for dealing with the coronavirus problem but because it is in fact likely to produce a backlash you already have people in the European Union talking about what kinds of punishments or not exactly sanctions in the sense of like what. America does the country that doesn't like but other kinds of internal rules that might maybe restrict the flow of money to Hungary a have hearings of some sort about its continued membership in the EU right if it gets cut off from EU funding and resources. There isn't an obvious way for the government to make up the gap moreover it strikes me. This is from talking to Hungarians again that it's really really important for the regime's legitimacy to be able to tell people that they still live in democracy. If you'll get pulling inside Hungary people still believe that they should have democracy. I think ordinary citizens believed at least as of two thousand eighteen that they were still living in one. That was part of the point of having a state bought media right. You can convince people their living democracy even though they're not but if they do this and then they Now recently a new push to try to take power away from mayors at the local level. It just so happens that some of the mayors in the country's largest cities including Budapest. Our opposition party mayors that they actually managed to despite the playing field being so tilted against them manage to win some local elections which is an extraordinary feat and a testament to the fact that maybe Hungarians are starting to get tired of the way that Bonn had been running the country. Now it's GonNa be much much much much more difficult to say. We respect the will of the People. We respect what they decided to do. And that could in theory there have been street. Protests against government policies that successfully forced them to back off. That could Engender a serious popular backlash against the regime. So that's kind of why I actually think that the timing right now is really smart on Orban's part not that again. Not that I support this idea but I think the timing actually makes a lot of sense because one just talking about popular protests and backlash. Well if everyone's scared of getting corona virus and it doesn't gather in large groups that makes protesting a lot harder just physically you know logistically. So there's that there's also the kind of broader idea a lot of strong men dictators. We've seen this in authoritarian regimes across the world. And over time they like to present themselves. Often is this benevolent father. Figure who is watching over the country in protecting you and keeping you safe and I can understand at a time of great fear overcurrent virus. Alex like you said they. They may only have a comparatively low number of cases but their neighbors and other countries in the EU have a lot more cases and and I can understand that presenting himself as this look. I'm just doing this to protect you. It reminds me a lot of how you see. Hooton trying to set himself up as a wise elder Russia. You've seen that obviously in the Kim family regimes throughout time in North Korea is like we are the ones protecting you from this threat so I think in that sense it makes sense the question which I think you've both gotten at is okay. That lasts for only so long right once. This threat goes away and it will. It may be months or a year but it will and at that point if he doesn't then rescinded which everything points to the fact that he probably won't then do you start to see popular protests. Then do you start to see the backlash capitalizing on on fear? A lot of people just want to make sure that the government's in control and doing something in a way that people who don't normally like government control you know might not otherwise. Have those kind of stronger feelings. Like I wanNA feel like somebody's in charge and taking control and keeping me safe so I will let him have these powers for now. The question again is what happens when the crisis is over. We're going to take a quick break. Because Jen helpfully brought up the fact that this is not just a Hungary problem but actually global problem. We're talking about a few other places where the current of. Irs Crisis has served as an opportunity for authoritarian leaders to or authoritarian minded leaders in democracies to try to expand their own powers or scope of control of the state. Hey It's Swisher you may know me as the only person who looks cool wearing sunglasses indoors but in my spare time. I hosted podcast called Rico decode every week. We talk about power changed the people you need to know. Around tech and beyond some of my recent guests include Edward Snowden Megan and the cast of the ellwood which was a huge thrill for me. If any of these sound interesting to you. Listen them now on Rico. Decode subscribe to the show for free on apple podcasts or your favorite podcast APP to be the first to hear new interviews every week. Hey it is as a host of Ezra Klein show podcast. We've been covering a huge amount of corona virus related questions over on the show and this week we sat down with Senator Elizabeth. Warren it is the federal government that can order the tests. It is the federal government that can use the pence production at in order to force companies to produce the test kits to produce the mass to produce the gown. The states don't have the power to do that. Only the federal government does listened to our whole conversation subscribed to clinch. Oh wherever you get your podcasts. Welcome back worldly listeners. we are talking about what is effectively a constitutional coup in Hungary where the parliament handed the prime minister. Dictatorial powers in keeping with his long-held authoritarian ambitions Hungary as the most extreme case of the corona virus being used as a pretext for a power grab but it is not the only one right. There are several countries around the world where authoritarian leaders authoritarian-minded leaders have taken on new powers disturbing powers and try new legislative or political tactics that they might not otherwise have been willing to do because the crisis has legitimized some sorts of power-grabs. Now to your mind you to what do you think some of the more egregious. Examples are outside of Hungary to stand out to me in particular of both in South America. So one is in. Bolivia which we talked about on the show before the quick recap here is that there was a rigged election. At least that's what most election observers say and the President Morales even rallies left and been caretaker from the opposite more right-leaning party actually a lot. More right. Leaning Party has come in and because of the corona virus that caretaker is now postponing elections and possibly trying to keep power in her office for some there was a coup against Morales and again. I think the statistics of the election is show that that's not the case but now it looks like this is someone who's trying to stay in power in using the corona virus as an excuse and so without elections without any actual kind of democratic process going strictly from the caretaker role to just being in charge and then nearby in juillet. There's been a long going tension between its military people. There were protesters against government's actions and the government decided to send the military out to those areas to push the protesters out to end the demonstrations if there was a case of large scale violence. One could see somewhat of a case for doing that. This was not the case. These were protesters. There was some incidents of or some reports of perhaps some small bouts of violence but largely peaceful in the grand scheme of things based on most reports and yet the military was called in to quash the descent and so in these two cases were seeing again the excuse of Oh. There is a corona virus crisis being used by governments to either hold onto power that has been usurped in many senses and then also to quell dissent against government both of these incidents they sound less than Hungary case than they are in the grand scheme of things right. These are not but still. This is what happens when you have an not just national price of international crisis and it gives leaders that are not so tied to democratic principles. Small D. The opening to do things like this. Yeah you know the one country that I've been keeping my eye on a lot and it's one that we talk a lot about in the same context as we often talk about Hungary and other countries that we're watching that were once quasi-democratic or moving toward democracy and are now you know backsliding towards authoritarianism and it's Turkey you know. In recent years we've seen president of Turkey. Really try to clamp down on dissent trying to exert more control over the media and control narratives. He is post-coup the attempted coup against his rule. His locked up journalists. He's locked up. People of all walks of life. And you know we're seeing him kind of extending that control and using the corona virus again as the pretext or or as the reason for doing that so what they're doing is they're really trying to crack down on what they're saying is misinformation about the colonel virus and again at surface level right. That sounds like a good thing. You don't want people spreading misinformation and getting people killed you know and saying certain things are curious if they're not or saying that the virus is not dangerous when it is. That's that's the argument that they're making right that we're just trying to crack down the misinformation. The reality is that they're cracking down on people who were going against the status quo narrative of what everyone says is happening in the country so while it may be some cases of misinformation we have the government you have. Aragon deciding what is misinformation? And there's this really remarkable moment this truck driver who had this viral video talking about the virus. He was arrested and he was finally released. Because the public was was really mad but Turkey's interior ministry was talking about the the guys detention and why he was. He was detained and he said that nearly three thousand social media accounts had been identified for propagating misinformation. And then he said we're trying to detain as many as possible like not even not sugar coating it right like literally like no. We're trying to arrest literally everyone on these social media accounts and that's really scary right and that's the same thing because if it's misinformation again about something that's dangerous that's one thing but if you're posting on social media criticizing the government and saying maybe not doing enough or. I'm not getting supplies. I need it my hospital and they come in rescue. That's the same thing we saw in China rate. That's the same thing that caused arguably outbreak in the first place so not only is that scary for democracy. It's scary for the corona virus response inside just quickly to add like this is the kind of thing we're seeing elsewhere and even in Thailand. The prime minister is now going after journalists who criticized the government or pretty much anyone who says the government like all under. Oh we have to make sure we have the right information for Corona virus. This seems to be one of the commonplace. It's fascinating to see this happen. Europe Asia Latin America all Middle East across the board. This seems to be one of the major plays. Well I mean it makes perfect sense right as John said. Everyone agrees that you need to be dealing with current virus misinformation because it can literally get people killed it is in the structure of a public health crisis that it is really really important that individuals take specific action on their own in ways that the state just can't force them to which the information you can't have a government agent in your house making you wash your hands right so under those circumstances it's really important that people get the right messages that viral misinformation no pun intended be corrected on social media like that. That sort of thing is fight all Yet in a country where the leadership is not democratically accountable. Or is dubiously democratically accountable. Or Hell even is democratically accountable but can figure out some way to temporarily get around at right there. It's much easier to abuse the same steps to insulate yourself from any kind of legitimate and meaningful criticism. Right that's why this this transcends region and really speaks to the nature of the people in power in all of these various different governments. We've been talking about is that they have a degree of authority. They care more about maintaining it than they do about ensuring the continued viability of democratic practice in their country and so they're willing to exploit the corona virus using plausible-sounding excuses. It's just it is really the perfect situation for somebody. Who wants to clamp down on the free flow of information and so you're seeing that happen in country after country in different ways. I don't know if we made this clear in the hungry situation but I believe until me. He's like if I had this wrong. But part of the the measures the state of emergency measures that that put in place mean that there are no rallies no elections that can be held during the state of emergency. Is that correct? Yeah that's right that's right that to me even more than the suppression of dissent and. Control of information that is potentially even more terrifying because you talked about Democratic Accountability Right that actually takes away that democratic accountability very directly. I'm not in any way trying to suggest that the situation in the US is comparable or that trump is comparable to two or Bonn at all to make that clear but we are seeing concerns among people especially on the left. Obviously you know what happens. Are we going to have an election here in the US? Because we're this is an election year and there are a lot of people who are scared that could could trump suspend the elections. And you know there's a lot of discussion that looks like legally probably couldn't and we would still get it done but there was a moment this week when trump was overheard saying. I'm not sure the exact context but was basically talking about the issue of whether we could do mail in ballots for all these elections that are coming up and he was essentially saying we shouldn't do that. We can't do that because then Republicans will never win another election. And I'm paraphrasing but that response is really scary because it's like a very overt political response like no. We can't do that and so again. I think you know the concerns over. The Corona virus make even holding elections sketchy and scary and an unclear whether you can do them in a fair way and so it's just it's just another way to kind of erode that democratic accountability. That's really scary. We've been talking mostly about dubiously democratic or questionably democratic states right but this is as John points out up potentially problem even for countries that have long democratic traditions in Israel for instance the parliament's speaker who is a member of prime minister. Netanyahu's party refused to comply with a court order that would force the government to seize the parliament where the opposition held a majority in in this maneuver which had thrown the country's political system into chaos basically coerced the leader of the opposition for reasons that are totally unclear to me and to joining up with the governments for what he claims are are the duration of the crisis but seems to empower Netanyahu. Who's been acting throughout this crisis Swiftly in sometimes in in ways and bitter consistent with public health dictates but also in ways that fit with his long standing authoritarian tendencies to try to hold onto power at any cost and now the opposition is fractured. And Netanyahu has a relatively solid majority in parliament. No in Britain you've seen pretty substantially stepped up surveillance powers that the Johnson government has received and real concerns from civil libertarians. That they just won't give those up after the virus crisis is over so while it obviously is a bigger problem in states where the the leadership actively dedicated to dismantling democracy even in countries that are more solidly democratic in Israel's Increasingly. Not In that situation for reasons that we've talked about other shows. It creates a problem for the tenuous balance of rights and freedoms you need for democracy to be functioning in the way that you wanted to for people to feel free enough to act in how they like in their private life as well as to participate politically and to challenge the government in public life. And you can you can you. Don't there's like a spectrum here right? It's not just democracy not democracy. It's Kellyanne emergency powers crew during times like these and up eroding the quality of democracy in your country and we saw that pretty vividly in the United States after nine eleven with the expansion of police powers and the Patriot. Act and stuff like that but now increasingly you're seeing it to varying degrees in cure democracies in struggling democracies alike. I don't let that America point go because I think that's incredibly illustrative and important. I mean let's remember. Yes we all number nine eleven. We don't have to go through that but what happened next. Which at the time. You could make some reasonable arguments for was a large surveillance capability to survey foreigners and some Americans were in contact with foreigners. It's all their communications. These warrants to spy on people effectively to see what they were up to because they might be suspected of of doing terrorist acts or may be. I mean it goes on and on and all of this was done with the well. We don't want another nine eleven to happen again in the government needs to have control. There's actually kind of decent ish arguments for those authorities at least more plausible arguments that you can make but what happened was an goes to a warning. I I kind of mentioned earlier is a lot of those powers. Remain or a lot of those power stayed or are around in some form and once you put these in place. They don't go away anytime soon. And so while the intention of like Oh well. We need the surveillance capabilities to to stop another nine. Eleven may have been put in with the correct views. It eventually more people were like well. This also has applicability elsewhere or if we got rid of these authorities then we would lose an important capability to continue to fight terrorism rather than national security issues. And like this is the problem. Is that when in moments of crisis and emergency which was a government to maybe take these steps but with a very clear timeline or very clear sort of illustration of. Here's how we're using it and here's one that's going to go away and we're not really seeing that in any of these cases right. Well we're seeing it or government. Say We want to do XYZ because we are protecting people right now and protecting them for future pandemics and what they're really doing is using the crisis of the moment to grab power luckily quote unquote in the US. It seems like a lot of those post nine eleven authorities are starting to wane some do remain and again in different forms that fight still continues and it's gotten to the point actually and this is the dad like there was an article. Recently Glenn Greenwald about people who is fought against serve. The surveillance state has kind of come out and effective been like well. We might need stuff like that to deal with Corona Virus. And so this is the kind of thing that happens right when a moment like this pops up. We have these kinds of initiatives were governments. Try to take more control and some people are okay with it and kind of let it happen. What thing that I will say? That has been remarkable and to trump's credit. I may come to eat. My words. New knows what happened but to trump's credit so far I mean he was asked in one of the recent press conferences that he holds every single day on the corona virus. He was asked you know. Are you considering or would you consider imposing these kinds of surveillance measures like we've seen in Israel and other countries where they're basically using like cell phone data and other surveillance tools to track people to make sure like you're staying at home or you're not gathering in groups where you're going things like that to try to track and control the Corona virus? And he said no. He was pretty clear and he made fun of it and said like what's going to happen. There's going to be like an a siren. Goes off on your phone. Oh no you're standing too close to. This person do which is interesting. I don't think I ever would have expected to be in a situation or a world in which Glenn Greenwald is arguing for more use of the surveillance state and Donald Trump is saying. That seems a little extreme guys. But that's where we are right now so I will say in that sense to trump's credit. We're not there yet. And hopefully we won't be. I don't WanNa let the US off the hook completely. Because there were reports that the Department of Justice was thinking about issuing an order where they would be able to arrest people if they respected of kind of not following the rules or something along those lines it was basically reducing restrictions on the ability to to arrest and very swiftly. There was a lot of political opposition to it from the right end the left and so they they moderated that stance but I. I'm not saying that the US sponsor not been very clean. There were these kinds of thoughts have popped up. They just haven't been an active sure. This is not a time where everything is safe. In fact it's time where bad political actors are going to exploit the situation for their own advantage and oftentimes to the detriment of the public and popular sovereignty. I want to thank our producer. Berg Pinkerton. I want to encourage all of you to rate subscribe and review worldly. Wherever you get your podcasts and we will see you all next week.
Toxic Flood of Hungary Pt. 2
"As the sun set over the Hungarian town of Deva Chair on October fourth two thousand ten the red shoes was still rolling through the streets in quick little rivers. Although the largest rush of toxic waste already inundated the city. The red mud continued to paint the village buildings with a blood red stain. An Eerie whooshing sound like heavy rain echoed through the air. The entire region was covered in poison in the streets. Huge detractors charged through the current red sludge volunteer farmers risked their lives to drive through the caustic waste. In the machines they use to move. Hey or plow fields. They drove up two houses that had been nearly crushed by the impact of the sludge. They urged frightened men and women to stretch their limbs out their windows. And grab onto the safety of these makeshift rescue vehicles. Some of the residents needed to be rushed to hospitals as soon as possible. Many had wounds that sizzled through their flesh rescuers try to ignore the Garish Open. Sores and exposed tissue of the people they saved. They needed to focus or their injured. Neighbors WOULDN'T GET HELP BEFORE. The toxic wounds became fatal. Welcome to natural disasters. Apar- cast original. I'm your host Kate and I'm Tim every Thursday. We'll explore the moments in history when the natural world turned deadly. You can find all episodes of natural disasters and other podcast originals for free on spotify or wherever you listen to podcasts stream natural disasters for free on spotify. Just open the APP and type natural disasters in the search bar at podcast. We are grateful for you our listeners. You allow us to do what we love. Let us know how we're doing reach out on facebook and Instagram at park cast and twitter at par cast network? This is our second two episodes on a toxic flood. Endeavor Hungary on October fourth two thousand ten the concrete walls of aluminum plant waste reservoir burst after several days of heavy rain. The resulting flood of toxic waste lifted. Cars wiped out hundreds of homes and permeated the soil in the region. Last week we heard about the negligence that led to the spill of one hundred eighty five million gallons of toxic waste. We followed the devastating impact of the toxic flood as it overtook the towns of Deva Chair and colon tar this week will explore the immediate aftermath and wreckage that continued to emerge days after the initial disaster will follow the subsequent investigation of the catastrophe. And we'll hear how the newly-appointed town mayor led efforts to rebuild the town into an eco-friendly haven at dawn on October fifth. Two Thousand Ten Deva Chair mayor to all the Tomas was waiting through a caustic swamp of heavy metals. He fervently hoped his boots and protective coveralls would protect him from the cadmium cobalt and lead swirling in the mud around him. An acrid smell filled his nose as he looked out over his little town. Every building fence and tree left standing had an eerie waist. High Line of rust colored residue it appeared as though the town had been painted carefully by a brush overnight in a misguided prank. Tomas was exhausted. He had been up through the night and he'd been frantically working since. The flood rushed over the town at noon the day before now. Small mountains of red rebels stood everywhere. The leftovers of the crumbled buildings that had toppled in the wave of toxic sludge. Deva chair no longer resembled the sleepy town where Tomas had spent his whole life. That looked like it had been bombed most of Devon chair surviving residents had been evacuated to nearby villages where shelters had been set up in churches and auditoriums rows of beds and tables of packed sandwiches. Were put out for the displaced victims but the toxic flow soon reached those surrounding villages as well. The sludge seeped into small creeks that fed into the larger tributaries of the Danube River. The recent rain had softened the ground and increase the permeability of the soil which only helped to quicken the spread of pollutants. Toxic plume had travelled nearly fifteen miles by October fifth. Reaching at least six other towns the region was in dire. Need of immediate help. Tomasa cell phone rang incessantly. As he slowly tramped through the sludge he was discussing how to find shelters for displaced residents. And keep the evacuees safe. He spoke with a never ending line of different government. Officials policemen and workers to coordinate the incoming help but it was calls from the press. Were the most intrusive. They wanted quotes. They wanted to know how disaster happened. Reporters came to the village. Protective outfits and masks poised and ready with cameras and microphones in addition to the reporters over five. Hundred policemen and soldiers arrived to organize infrastructure among the madness and ruin they were directing traffic and continuing to clean roads and walkways and everyone wore head to toe protective gear. The rescuers looked like aliens or spacemen. New arrivals to an unknown toxic as the clean-up began in earnest. The Hungarian government directed the temporary shutdown of Mall Zero. The company responsible for the spill workers from the aluminum plant were dispatched to gather sludge from the streets of Deva Chair and ship it back to the headquarters in Ocu- about twelve miles away rusty alkaline water splashed as industrial vacuums sucked up. Sludge gathered in homes and offices workers from the company hosed down streets and alleyways to wash away the heavy metals to foot deep puddles of diluted toxic water or then suctioned from between trees and the dips of Roadways. Huge bulldozers gathered building wreckage and scooped up poisoned swaths of the surrounding forest floor. But no amount of cleaning could erase the red stains or fully removed. The powdery toxic dust that caked on wherever the waste dried the demolished homes. Were haunting site. Living Room couches were sopping wet with red mud. Never to be sat on again. Tv's were toppled over poison melted through plastic frames and burned away family pictures. Broken walls revealed inundated bathrooms with tubs sinks filled with sludge amidst piles of d'etre 'tis dolls and basketball's floated along in. What used to be children's toy rooms? Refrigerators with food still inside removed and put in massive garbage crate in the mid day on October. Fifth government workers arrived with giant dump trucks and drove down unchartered paths and back roads. They poured Klay into the tributaries of the Danube River. Officials claimed at the time that they would be able to neutralize toxins and minimize contamination with the clay. As Claes naturally absorbent. It could lower the Ph of the water by soaking in the poisons but the mud was wildly toxic yielding a Ph of thirteen that level of alkalinity could burn through skin and muscle tissue in a matter of minutes. A Ph of thirteen is similar to bleach oven cleaner. Neither of which is a substance. A person would want to touch jest war inhale throughout the afternoon of the fifth the sludge spread through rivers and woodlands around Deva Chair and Colon Tar just a day before these bodies of water had been lively clean and filled with wildlife water sources. That had been fresh enough to drink turned caustic overnight red sludge clogged the gills of fish. Their bodies floating to the surface birds who had eaten poison plants and dying aquatic. Animals lay bloated. At the river's edge. Small drowned rodents looked like clay figurines. The sheer number of dead creatures alarmed. The workers gathered the nauseous carcasses with gloved hands. They lifted the limp bodies of squirrels and raccoons that dripped with sludge into bins trash cans filled to the brim with these. Little corpses were incinerated by the dozen. The forest was strangely silent. Save for the sounds of the heavy machinery scooping and sectioning the toxic waste from the environment however the cleaning efforts to stop the flow of caustic sludge rivers and soil. Were coming up short. The emergency responders had underestimated the amount of toxic liquid. There was to clean up. This was due to a corporate lie in their own. Disaster plan malls accounted for only a fraction of the amount of toxic sludge. They had generated. They had been using the same waste pond to dump aluminum biproduct. Since the nineteen sixties in addition to the glut of toxic waste excess rainwater collected in the waste. Reservoir at the plant mixed with the aluminum. Byproduct years of rain created a much more fluid and powerful force than expected when the dam failed. The vast amount of rain water in the waste pond diluted the toxic sludge when the wall deteriorated burst the sludge spread in a more fluid form. It flowed markedly faster than a more solid substance the volume multiplied to over one hundred eighty five million gallons of destructive liquid that polluted roughly two thousand acres of land now the excess liquid pooling around the villages made the cleanup process much more harrowing as it dried and hardened the evacuated residents would not be able to return as soon as they had hoped. Once the sludge had absorbed the cleanup would take much longer than anticipated by October. Sixth and seventh. Some of these frightening facts trickled into the news and became public knowledge. The shock of what had happened was turning into anger. Deep Sadness and fear for the future residents listened to the news and read articles online has details about the true scope of the disaster. Were beginning to come to light. They heard the wide swath of land affected by the flood and realized the disaster was much greater than what they had seen Endeavour Chair. They saw pictures of fish floating belly up. In the midst of a- bling burping globs Greenpeace reported the danger of arsenic chromium and excessive mercury in the waters around Deva Chair. Arsenic levels in the wells of Colon Tar were twenty five times higher than the legal limit for drinking water and double the anticipated levels from the waste reservoir. It was difficult for residents to comprehend the level of poison now surrounding them many townspeople with only partially damaged. Homes remained endeavour chair refusing to leave these residents watched out their windows as blurry. Red Clouds filled the air. They tried to stay calm. The danger was only increasing. A new problem arose says the toxic mud began to dry. The sludge became a cancerous dust. It was not safe to breathe in but it was everywhere. Caught in the breeze and stirred up by the machines masks were required to be outside. In some cases people even wore them indoors as a dust made its way through air vents and under doors and on the morning of October Seventh. The wind started to pick up coming up. We'll see how the danger grew as the government and town officials rushed to save lives podcasters. I have some exciting news for you. I'm hosting a new show called daily quote. It's a quick two to three minute. Podcast that is sure to inspire you put you on the path to positively each quote will motivate uplift and renew your outlook on life plus. I'll dive deeper into the context surrounding the quote. You can learn more about its origin and the meaning behind it. Here's an episode for you to sample. Take a listen and then follow daily quote free on spotify or wherever you get your podcasts. Good morning everyone. Welcome to daily quote a podcast original. I'm Kate Leonard. Today's quote is from the author Margaret. Atwood in her short story collection moral disorder. She writes all that anxiety and anger. Those dubious intentions. Those tangled lives that blood. I can tell about it or I can bury it in the end. We'll all become stories. This quote comes at the end of a short story where a woman passes away in her home. The real estate agent becomes convinced that the House is haunted when the previous owners friend tells a story to the houses new buyers. They find it charming to them. The alleged haunting and the story behind it adds character in the end. It's these stories that live on after we die. The memories told by the people. We touched each moment. Good or bad adds texture to the narrative overtime even the painful experiences. Lose their sting and you can see them for what they are an indelible part of your life story so instead of dwelling on the difficult times or trying to bury them remember that every experience is part of what makes our lives unique. The past can't and shouldn't be forgotten but the future is still a blank page. It's up to you to write the rest of your story. Daily quote is a daily podcast. Follow on spotify to make it part of your morning routine and let it inform the rest of your day. Daily quote is a podcast original. If you're listening on spotify you can share this quote with your friends on social by tapping the three dots in the top right corner of the episode. Page scrolling down to share and selecting your sharing option of choice. I hope you like the episode. If you're looking for a morning jump start amid day. Pick me up or evening inspiration. You can hear a new episode three hundred sixty five days a year followed daily quote free on spotify. Or wherever. You get your podcasts now. Back to the story on the afternoon of October seventh two thousand ten. The remaining residents of Deva Chair peered out their bedroom windows at the blustery breeze. Dark red dust blue against the tall white sanitation tents that housed cleanup workers and equipment. These temporary structures had been set up on street corners throughout the town. The policemen and local workers who work day and night to remove the sludge came to clean themselves off in the tents. They still wore their protective white suits even as they hosed down the atrocious effect the red mud hat on skin was too great. Take any chances. The one hundred fifty injured people in the hospitals. Still tending to their spreading. Chemical Burns. Knew this all too. Well as workers tramped around in their protective suits cleaning up in the wake of the toxic flood. The sludge was still trickling from its origin. Point at the Aluminum Plant in Ocu- the whole was being patched but before and during the repair process the remaining mud and liquid continued to pour out workers from the plant. Were working to patch the damage and build a new waste reservoir. The government also ordered three par dam to be built around the reservoir to block the flow Hungary's Prime Minister Viktor. Orban arrived Deva Chair. On the seventh to visit the cleanup. He was also going to inspect the DAM BUILDING PROJECT IN OCU- to make sure everything was going as ordered orbin walked the dusty streets of Deva Chair and colon tar and spoke to villagers. He went to visit the injured citizens. Including some who were still in critical condition with toxic burns. He promised them at no one would be left without care. That care extended to missing persons as well. There were three people unaccounted for in Colon Tar on October seventh family members prayed that their loved ones would be found frightened and hiding or trapped but still alive on the afternoon of the seventh. A collection of emergency responders drained a fish pond and colon tar. They feared the worst that the three people reported. Missing near the pond would be found at the bottom of it. The pond was overflowing milky and read with sludge. They stayed quiet next to the Of the huge vacuum hoses. They kept their eyes peeled at each dark rock or dead fish that came into view as the water lines slowly lowered but the pond was empty and the three bodies remained missing. Eventually the missing residents were added to the death toll. That made ten dead by nightfall on October seventh on October. Eighth Two thousand ten four days after the initial disaster government officials ordered several tons of gypsum to be airdropped over the disaster zone. This snowy powder soon coated. The land. Gypsum is a soft mineral made of calcium sulfate. Its Chalky and fibrous us to make drywall sidewalk. Chalk and it's even more absorbent than clay but most importantly gypsum reduces toxicity in aluminum. And because it's white gypsum powder is very visible when soaked with contaminant and makes it easier to clean affected areas. The coating of gypsum blurred the landscape from the windows of strangers homes where the displaced residents slept on couches and guest rooms. They watched ivory dust sprinkled lightly over the surreal. Red Landscape Gypsum was dropped all along the tributary rivers that ran towards the Danube. As well these small clean rivers had all been infiltrated by the deadly spill while some of the spill would reach. Danube it would not destroy all aquatic life as it had closer to Deva Chair. Nothing could totally remove the poison. But the cleanup was lessening the toxicity levels the slow flow of sludge that continued to spread through and remain. In the towns would soon be neutralized the danger and fear or not over on October ninth. Two thousand ten five days after the initial spill another frantic evacuation took place in Colin Tar. City officials received word that there was a problem at the new dam being directed at the aluminum. Plant eight miles from coal. Antar the original source of the toxic flood was at risk of a massive leak again. The waste pond was a structure built with different staggered basins. One of which had failed the week before and produced the flood now one of the basins that remained and still held toxic. Sludge looked ready to burst in a panic. Construction workers packed rocks around the base in wall. All work on the new dam ceased in order to support the reinforcement effort. The wall of the weakened basin bulged scooted outward in tiny increments drips and gobs of sludge lifted over and trip down the side of the wall like a cake Pan overfilled with batter non-essential workers ran for shelter. If the basin burst the remaining sludge would toss their bodies along in a second huge wave of poisonous muck down and Colin Tar. Policemen went door to door telling people they had to evacuate announcements were made on the news. People rushed to gather their belongings and make sure their loved ones were together. They boarded buses to other villages where they would be assigned places to stay by the late afternoon of October ninth. Sports halls and auditoriums were filled with several hundred beds to house people. Though many people stayed with friends and neighbors the poorest families and the elderly used the public shelters one elderly man told the priest that they felt like animals in a zoo everyone in the shelter. Halls felt disoriented. Errant Saabs were heard in the cavernous rooms. Mother's whispered to each other in fear. They had no idea if they had lost their homes. They had no news at the current situation at the building. Site of the new dam. Children played games in the halls oblivious to the possible second disaster. One child told a reporter. He had a good time playing with his friends and not going to school even if they had to stay inside thankfully the worker short up the dam in time. The new dam was completed before the season began to leak heavily. A second toxic flood would not wash through Colin tar but people remained in the shelters waiting to return home journalists from all over the world including Spain France Australia and the US conducted interviews with displaced residents citizens across the globe were fascinated by the disaster and fearful that such a thing could happen in their own regions. Many of the Hungarian villagers simply want to go home. Peter Molnar a colon tar citizen told the BBC they said we can go back in three days but maybe we can never go back. Peter was correct. Things would not be going back to normal anytime soon. It was estimated that cleanup and rebuilding would take up to a year one reporter Elizabeth Rosenthal. Who had been on the ground in those initial days wrote that life would never be the same for the resident she also spoke of the ecological disaster being one of the top three worst in Europe in over thirty years. She also pointed out that part of the reason the flood got so much. Attention was because of how photogenic the destruction was. The rusty sludge made the disaster particularly strange to examine few toxic spills and environmental trusses received as much attention. Nevertheless the real life toll on the Hungarian countryside was devastating down in the village of Deva Chair. People were dealing with the emotional shock and loss of the traumatic event itself. Vigils were set up for the people who had died by drowning complications from injuries. Extensive searches for missing persons were ongoing in the rubble of homes. And Barns morale was low amongst the townspeople they did not believe life would ever return to happiness. They did not feel safe. They did not know if they could trust that anyone in power would see them through this disaster. Or if the company would be held responsible now that the cleanup was well underway. The victims wanted justice coming up. We'll see how deva chair dealt with the lasting effects of the disaster and what happened when the victims finally had their day in court now back to the story by October Tenth Emergency Dam had been built at the aluminum plant and the cleanup process was moving along Endeavour Chair Hungary but there was still the looming question of what happened and who was to blame. The managing director of Malls Airport had already been taken in for questioning by the police. The government appointed a new caretaker management team to head up the process of rebuilding. The waste. Reservoir at the company was ordered to provide any records on the previous inspections maintenance Hungary's National Bureau of Investigation had opened a new and comprehensive examination into the entire Mall Zero Company the day after the flood. Now the firm was facing charges for reckless endangerment the hunt for the guilty parties was well underway the NBA. I wanted to know which federal regulations were breached. And how egregiously? They seized all inspection documents and began the questioning of employees and managerial staff. Experts were dispatched to fly over the areas affected by the toxic leak to document and assess damages. The aerial reconnaissance was the only way to see the full scope of the catastrophe after all before the disaster. The Mall Zero Waste Pond. That burst was so large. It could be seen from space in the years preceding the flood. Environmental Groups in Europe had long been fearful of the potential dangers of having a massive waste pond in such close proximity to the town as early as two thousand six. The waste pond was on a watchlist by the International Commission for the protection of the Danube River. They cited the waste pond as a potential source of catastrophic harm to the waterway the World Wildlife Fund officials in Hungary even advocated for a full closure of the pond as well as the shuttering of two other sludge waste basins in the region. But nothing had been done and now everyone from the townspeople of Deva Chair to the prime minister. Wanted to know why but it would take a long time before the representatives for the Mall Zero Company would go to trial in two thousand sixteen almost six years. After the flood hit the small Hungarian towns the company was brought to court. While the towns had largely recovered by then their citizens were still invested. In Finding Justice Zoltan. Balcony the ex-director of malls eared was put on trial with other managers of the plant. They were tried for environmental damages and waste violations. Crowds villagers gathered at the hearings. They had been enraged by balconies initial response to the disaster. His first comments after the flood or callous and ignorant he said the toxic mud can be hosed off by strong water current it said I should be responsible although I don't feel it mall. Zere expressed condolences to family members. That had lost loved ones and for those who had lost homes but they took no immediate responsibility it further enraged many people in the town of Deva chair who saw the lack of accountability as cruel and cowardly especially since there was evidence indicating that the powers at malls had known there were issues with the structure not only had they done nothing to stop it from collapsing they actively overfilled it for years preceding the October two thousand ten flood during the two thousand sixteen hearing. Balkany claimed that the disaster was caused by the heavy rains during that week in October. Two Thousand Ten. He said the movement of the soil beneath was overly affected by the weather and there was simply nothing he or anyone else could have done to stop it and the judge agreed. He announced that there was not enough proof that the managers of malls zero could have stopped the flood when the verdict was announced. The crowd cried out in anger to them. It was not fair. It was not correct. The former director and fourteen other employees all involved with overseeing the reservoir or managing the plant were acquitted while the company was fine. Six hundred fifty million dollars. The Victims Endeavour Chair wanted personal accountability. Most of the residents had been compensated for damages by the time of the verdict. People were in their new homes and a restored town but there was no denying that the flood had ruined lives and irreparably damaged others and the environmental impact was permanent years. Later people were still coping with exposure to toxins in the sludge residents in prosecutors. Were so unhappy with the charges. They appealed the decision and asked for a re-trial the pollution had been compared the two thousand ten BP oil spill in the Gulf of Mexico in that disaster roughly two hundred million gallons of oil spilled into the Gulf damaging the ecosystems but far enough offshore to avoid residential damage. This had been one hundred eighty five million gallons of toxic waste flowing over the streets of several populated villages. The people wanted justice and to be recognized in a court of law when the appeal went through a retrial. Took place three years later in two thousand nineteen prosecutors pleaded for punishments that fit. The crime was a long fight but one the people of Deva Chair were determined to win this time. The court found the company members. Guilty of breaking many rules about storage and handling of the sludge. The court said in a statement the defendant's negligence contributed to the catastrophe since they did not deal with the warning signs of a possible breach and they misled area. Residents and authorities regarding the true amount and toxicity of water accumulated due to the rule violations which ultimately became determinant factors catastrophe they also expressed that the former CEO did not tell the truth about the spill he in made willfully misleading comments. That put lives in great danger. The court noted also that the mall zyrtec employee's RETU- late in notifying authorities about the flood and the toxicity. The damn environmentalists activists residents and some government officials had been saying this all along finally. They were being validated in court. Two of the former executives were convicted and sentenced to prison. Zoltan Bocconi received a sentence of two point five years for public endangerment a deputy CEO received a two year sentence of the other defendants eight received either suspended prison sentences fines or reprimands five were acquitted while nothing would ever make up for what happened. People were happy that the years they had spent in court had paid off in part because it was to set an example that this kind of disaster was not to be taken lightly. The town would always be a monument to what happened and what so many of them had survived and to make this monument. The town decided to rebuild itself as a pinnacle of Green Sustainable Living Prime Minister Viktor Orbin and mayor to Wall Day. Tomas had serious discussions about the rebuilding or been suggested. Tomas remove all remaining rubble. He told him to knock down anything partially damaged to replace it. Even the buildings that had been there for centuries been promised the government would provide financial help the entire nation was committed to rebuilding the village. Tomas was ahead of the game. Long before he was given the go-ahead he began reconstruction even in the first days after the two thousand ten flood. He planned for the rebuilding of eighty-seven houses. He used almost all local materials. Save for the bricks he worked with Imran Moskovitz a famous architect who designed the homes for free the rebuilding efforts would cost the national government. One hundred twenty. Seven billion Hungarian forints the equivalent of approximately three hundred ninety million dollars. These new houses would be made in a different style than the others. In the town. They would not resemble the Soviet apartments or charming. Hungarian cottages that characterized the rest of Deva chair they would be identical cream colored homes with red roofs a collection very new and modern dwellings. That would serve as a potent reminder of the disaster but there were residents many of them older who were too afraid to leave homes that had only been partially ruined. They could not bear to say goodbye to the familiar cracks in their walls and the kitchens where they hid made Christmas meals and birthday cakes. These residents insisted that they would simply repair the damages and they did not need to move. Some of the cheer citizens who refuse new homes also believe the building was a promise that might not be kept however those with homes that had been completely decimated had no choice but to have faith in Thomas's promise Tomasz did not stop his rebuilding effort at the collection of houses. He wanted the entire town to be a healthy and safe place for residents to enjoy. Tomasz also wanted Deva chair to be as ECO. Forward as possible as he helped to bring it back to life just like he had used local materials to build the homes. He would center the town around environmentally sound structures. He wanted to make community areas that promoted wellbeing and healing as well. He made a bus station. That was heated by geothermal energy. He built a mulch power generator that sat behind the town hall. The generator was responsible for heating. All the new homes and together the Molt that would power the machine. He planted fields of fast-growing poplars in refreshed. Land that had been inundated by the sludge in a healthy endeavor. Tomasz oversaw the construction of assault room in the local school similar to ones found in spot. The walls were made of Himalayan Pink Salt Chunks of salt warmed in the corners of the room cleaning the air. These rooms are supposed to help. Heal respiratory maladies and lung issues. Many suffered from the toxic dust especially children. Tomasz encourage students at the local schools to sit in the salt rooms often. According to Vice reporter who visited Deva Chair in two thousand fourteen? The school director made kids take classes inside the salt room once a week. The students did their lessons surrounded by pink bricks of salt in the hopes that their lungs would heal from whatever exposure? They might have had as infants. School director told the vice reporter. We're so fortunate. Our children weren't affected more. Of course we were scared. But it's an unbelievably great achievement. What's been done here? But of all the new structures perhaps the most beautiful reminder of the strength of the town after the disaster is the new chapel aspire of the church was built to resemble a pair of wings like the town of Deva Chair itself the spire recalls a Phoenix rising from the ashes. Thanks for listening to natural disasters. We'll be back next Thursday with a new episode. You can find all episodes of natural disasters and all other podcast originals for free on spotify. Not only spotify already have all of your favorite music but now spot of is making it easy for you to enjoy. All of your favorite podcast. Originals like natural disasters for free from your phone. Desktop or smart speaker to stream natural disasters on spotify. Just open the APP in type natural disasters in the search bar and don't forget to follow us on facebook and Instagram. At podcast and twitter at podcast network. We'll see you. Next time natural disasters was created by Max Cutler and his podcast studios original it's executive produced by next cutler. Sound design by Anthony Val sick with production assistance by Ron Shapiro Carly Madden Isabel away. This episode of natural disasters was written by Antequera Stinson with writing assistance by Gallagher and stars Tim Johnson and Kate Leonard.
Anne Applebaum on the Twilight of Democracy
"A, lot of conservative thinkers. And writers have this in common this belief that you know in profound contemporary Clyde and it's often couple of believe there are. We have weekly leaders they are the great men of the past are gone now. Who By pink knees by people who are not up to the job? And sometimes this is accompanied by kind of nostalgia for a past era that some of them then you know, seek to bring back. The Madeira is terrible. What we need is what we used to have. I'm Benjamin witness, and this is the Law Faira Podcast, July twenty, seventh, two, thousand and twenty. And Applebaum is a long time columnist writer historian, and she is the author most recently of the twilight of democracy, the seductive lure of authoritarianism. It is a brief book, but one with broad scope. Why authoritarian ideologies are on the ascendance in countries as diverse as Poland Hungary Spain, the United States and Great Britain. And joined me in the virtual jungle studio from London, in what turned into a wide ranging conversation about the themes of the book. Why are all of these authoritarian ideologies on the rise now? What is the role of social media in their rise? What are the major themes that they have in common? And how different are they location by location? How did Conservative ideology come to fracture the way it has over so brief a period of time. And how is the modern wave of authoritarianism different from earlier iterations of it? It's the Law Fair podcast July twenty seventh and apple bound on the twilight of democracy. And a lot of the conversations with you about this book have started at Your New Year's Eve party where you begin the book and we'll talk about that, but I wanNA start in a different place I wanNA start with Julianne, Bend and which is a theme that recurs throughout. The book and and your discussion of of the fracturing of intellectual life, and so I wanNA start with who was Julianne Benda. And how does his work that you discuss? Interact with the book that you've written here. So Jillian Benda was a French intellectual, and who wrote a book that in retrospect looked very prophetic. The book was called Cola Trees Zone declared the treason of the clerks or the treason. The intellectuals is sometimes translated, and it was a book that talked about the phenomenon of intellectuals aligning themselves to radical political movements. And at the time he was writing, he was talking about. This is the nineteen twenties and Nineteen Thirties. He was talking about people aligning cells, both to the far right, as than was fascist and pro fascist movements in Europe. And to the far left the communist, and and eventually Stalinist movements in Europe and the book was about. Some of the people why they were why they founded appealing and the way in which intellectuals were attracted to power, and what they had to do to get there, and what he was mostly worried about was people losing their objectivity, their ability to make judgements. And their sense of truth, what was true and and and and honest in their work, and instead throwing all that over in order to take sides in a political argument, and he predicted that this phenomenon would eventually he's there's a phrase in the book where he says it will lead to millions of deaths, and indeed it did a few years later, and the book was when I read many years ago, picked up again a year or two ago, when thinking about how to write about not the same phenomenon in my own time, but a kind of parallel phenomenon, which is of again of intellectuals, being attracted to radicalism. And why does it happen? And I found the book a of useful starting. It explains you know y for someone who lives the life of the mind cares about ideas. You know why being part of politics is so exciting uplifting. Why and why in particular radical politics attractive in the book in My book there are few characters people who you might say. Follow that pattern. So. It's interesting that you describe having read that book years ago and return to it recently. I have exactly the same experience. I read it in college. It kind of lurked in the back of my mind for. I guess it's you know thirty years now and I recently returned to my tattered old copy of it from college and I also feel like I have friends and former friends who are clerks in precisely the pejorative sense that I don't speak French, but I think doesn't quite translate from the the way Benda used the phrase to English so tell me a little bit about those friends you. Open the book at this hopeful New Year's Eve party in in your I. Don't Know Your Manor House in Poland, and describe how fractured that world, the world of people you were celebrating. The new millennium with has become. Talk about it. What happened to your philosophical, personal and political friend group? So, first of all the party is a metaphor. I mean I don't give a lot of parties. I'm not a great hostess, not a book about parties. and. In fact, it was kind of a scruffy party. You know wasn't fancy. And there were no caterers or anything like that and the house is a Manor House, but we bought it when it was a ruin and nine, thousand, nine, hundred, nine I think we'd finished it enough to have a party and there was a very large room that had do furniture in it, and that's where the party was. So so that's that's. That's the backdrop and the group of people. who were there. You know again. There was nobody there at the time. Who was particularly famous or or or fence? What it was. You know some journalists, some very junior politicians. My husband was then a junior minister in Polish government. A few people came from England. A couple of people came from new. York. People wanted to travel because it was the millennium, and so people wanted to go to some kind of exotic parts for some people. You know the Polish countryside. Middle of nowhere was pretty exotic in fact remains pretty exotic. Some of the people at the Party and it has to be said none of the close friends. They were just people who we knew. Some of them have subsequently a few of the Polish guests subsequently in. Ten Years Fifteen years twenty years later have reemerged as. Journalists and publicists who work on behalf of what's an increasingly extreme, actually political party in Poland, which is right now the ruling party? which is openly xenophobic, which is openly conspiratorial at uses conspiratorial conspiracy theories as as a tactic, and which from time to time is any Semitic and one or two of the people who were in my house twenty years ago are among the people who use that kind of language, one of the women who is there is now a prominent conspiracy theorists who writes over and over again about A. A famous plane crash that took place in Poland. A decade ago killed the president in which she means never quite clear, actually what she thinks happened, but she thinks there's a massive cover up and the Polish stayed in the Polish government may be in cahoots with the Russians or maybe other people have covered it up, denied it, so she's one of the people who propagate the conspiracy theory. And I tried to write about what were the forces that had changed them, and as you say, I did not come up with one single answer. I came up with multiple answers. And the answers, a little bit different in Poland in Britain the United States and in Spain, and some the other countries that I refer to in Poland some of the people were had been. You know by the time it got to be twenty. Nineteen had been disappointed by the political transition in Poland and they felt that it was not what they had wanted or they were. or or did not benefitted them personally or not in the way that they felt it should. Some people had become wary of or anxious about Western influence, which they felt was damaging or destroying something essential about Poland so as I said I examined some of the people and go through a little bit I think some of their motives are. And yet as you survey, the country is in question, and you spend time on Poland on Hungary on Spain on Britain the UK and States you do I identify at least in a loose sense. Some major common themes, common themes, being things like disinformation things like conspiracy, thinking themes like xenophobia, even whereas in the case, of Hungary there really aren't. Immigrants in any substantial number, and by doing this, you described by think a constellation of thematic content around. The new authoritarianism and so I guess I'd love for you to distill that and say if there is a common core to the new authoritarian. Ascendancy! At least West wide, if not worldwide, what are the constituent elements of it? So in Western democracies where you have the emergence of sometimes, it's called. I think incorrectly right wing populism, but I think it's really more. You know an authoritarian political parties. There are some there are some things they have in common one of them is. Pessimism and sometimes kind of extreme apocalyptic pessimism of a kind that we used to hear from the far left so and it's a pessimism that is specifically blames liberalism and liberal thinking in the ideas for a lot of modern problems. These are people who feel that something essential has been taken away from their civilization that there is we are experiencing profound decline sometimes. They believe it's irreversible of one of the people I quote. Is a really great actually conservative philosopher, who is not at all political, and was very sincere in what he wrote Roger Scrutiny who wrote a book about. It called England and Elegy, which is a book, which which he describes as a funeral oration for my country and a book, in which he goes through all the things that England that are being lost and gone. And the and the the sad and. Shallow civilization that he thinks is replacing it. You! Know a lot of. Thinkers and writers have this in common this belief that. In profound contemporary decline, and they and it's often coupled to believe you know there are. We have week leaders. They. Are you know the great men of the past or gone? Now ruled by pygmies by people who are not up to the job, and sometimes this is accompanied by kind of Belgium and I talk about different kinds of nostalgia. An established for a past era that some of them then begin to signal, seek to bring back. You Know Madeira is terrible. What we need is what we used to have. And this is by the way a theme that goes across authoritarianism in all kinds of places I mean shove is in Venezuela, talks about Simone believe are and recreating the Boulevard Republic, and Putin talks about making Russia great again and trump talks about making America great again. And the Polish ruling party, law, and justice talk about bringing back some kind of Catholic traditionalist I, Dunno nineteen twenty s style of nineteen thirties style of politics. And so this desire to bring back some loss. Era is another. Element that they have in common, but in order to do that. In other words in order to resurrect something that's been lost to radically change the present they have to convince bring other people along with them, and so one of the book seems as you've said. Is this theme of Conspiracy Theory Disinformation because of the quickest easiest ways to get people to doubt their societies to cease to believe in their institutions is to? is to offer them a conspiracy theory, powerful conspiracy theory that says you know it's all a lie, and your leaders are covering things up from you, and this is something that people. Over the centuries have found easy to believe in so for example in Poland I I referred already to the conspiracy theory that the president was murdered, and and the idea of course that the president was murdered, and he was murdered with the knowledge of the government and everybody from the media to the courts to the police. The prosecution service. Everybody is covering up if you believe that. Then you then you really believe that your institutions are failed. Then you can begin to accept some kind of really radical anti-democratic alternative, and by the way we had the same phenomenon happened in the United States I dismissed it. I underrated it. Maybe you didn't that. I think a lot of people did and this was of course the phenomenon of birtherism. You know the argument that President Obama. Obama is an illegitimate president and everybody is covering it up in denying core again. Courts Congress police prosecutors media. Everyone is lying to you. President Obama is illegal and illegitimate. He was born in Kenya. He's not really American. And some very high percentage of Americans sort of I've seen figures to twenty and twenty five percent believed this and trump was of course, the person who spoke for it. One of the loudest advocate of it. And if you can believe that you know, then, you must have then you have to ask you know. Is Your Society Authentic? Are these institutions you know worth it? Don't we need someone who can come? Tear them all down and replace them with something else because they're all full of liars and the power of these conspiracy theories It's important because they're important to note that these are not full-blown ideologies, so it's not like communism where you're expected to believe a whole series of things about you know the history and the president of the future and economics and saw no. All you have to believe is that the president was illegitimate? And then that opens the door to you listening to all kinds of alternative theories, an alternative explanations of the world. And? We so happen to be living in an era where we have some one of the best. Of mechanisms for delivery of conspiracy theory ever invented that is social media, which is media that is you know that functions the way Casa village villages functions, which whichever is the most exciting story is the one that's passed along the fastest. So. That's really interesting. You know because everything that you've set up until then. Is. Basically a theme of the rise of traditional authoritarian or totalitarian movements, as well as these modern ones, but the medium mechanisms are unique to this time period, and so guess my my question is to what extent is that the explanation or a significant part of the explanation for why now? You know I look at the landscape, and there's no, and you ruminate a little bit about this in the book. There's no particularly obvious reason why this is happening now rather than. Ten years ago or twenty years ago, why twenty years ago are you and the folks who now are the the clerks of the law and Justice Party partying together on the Millennium, and now the fracture has happened rather than the other way around. So so it is my prejudice and there are. They're going to be many people who disagree with me, but it is my prejudice that yes, the media revolution is largely part of it. You know the way in which we now get process. Political information is so profoundly different from the way that happened ten years ago. Let alone twenty years ago. That has. Has To have changed the way we see and understand the world, and it has to change our relationship to our our institutions I mean every time there has ever been a media revolution of this scale in the past. It's has similarly profound impact and I should I should add here that the impact is both for better and for worse I mean there's. Just like the invention of the printing press you know led to mass literacy led to multiplication of different kinds of raiding, led to the development of modern literature and all kinds of great things it did also. Lead to a schism in the Catholic, Church. Because previous to that, you couldn't have had people. Printing the monks had controlled all written information, and that led to a schism led to the rise of protestantism, and you know to to whip through European history and three seconds I mean that was one of the things that led to one hundred years of war in Europe again. Whatever you think of many advantages, I'm not saying practices this bad, I'm just saying that it had this headache clinic political impact and I think that's what we're living through now I mean there are also economic explanations for. For Popular Disatisfaction, although again I said you have to explain why they occur now and not immediately after the financial crisis, there are demographic explanations, although again, those are also complicated because in some of the places where the xenophobia is growing the fastest, and is the loudest. There aren't any immigrants, and so you have to explain to me why that is as well I'm not I'm not really convinced by that explanation, either but the thing that all of us have in common western countries as well as. You know some Asian democracies like the Philippines or Or Turkey. Or other countries where this kind of similar kind of authoritarianism has risen, they all do have this factor in common. They all have undergone this transformative media revolution, and they're all run by people who figured out how to master it, so that's you know I'm not saying the final. The final explanation, but for me to me it's. It's just an overpowering one. I feel that it's been really underrated. As even just as an organizing principle I mean if nothing else. Social media allows people who were not previously contact, and who shared similar feelings of despair pessimism about their countries. It allows them to be in touch with one another and to reinforce one another and to exchange ideas with one another and to organize themselves into new. Whatever you want, you know whatever online tribes or echo chambers, our filter bubbles, or whatever you WANNA call it, and that seems to me to have changed politics in indelibly forever and I don't see I. don't see how traditional political parties can easily survive a mean. The United States is a special case because our voting system makes it hard to create new parties, but in Europe. We've seen these massive transformations of party systems. In every country and that's again. That's partly to do with the fact that people rearranging themselves because they can now and again. There's vintages to that. I'm not denying that there is also a lot of disruption. So an one of the striking things about the book is that you make clear that these movements do not exist in isolation from one another, but in constant dialogue with and. Kind of iterative conversation with one another, so you have a Spanish political party that's using the slogan. Make Spain great again. You have the international celebrity of Victor Oregon and the the degree to which lots of different of these. Sort of Right wing authoritarian movements to Oregon as a exemplar to what extent are these movements distinct from one another? And to what extent are they really a kind of internationally cohesive? Not the Socialist International Ripe. And they don't think of themselves as an internationalist movement and yet they kind of are. So I think increasingly they do think of themselves as an internationalist movement, and there have been a number of attempts. In different spheres to organize conferences between their leaders and members, so they meet, I was at one that has had an American origin which I wrote about in the book, but there have been others there's there's some of the World Congress of families which is has actually has Russian funding. That has brought together the leaders of a lot of these movements and they they do meet one another in all kinds of informal ways to I think it's important though. Given that we were just talking about. The importance of the Internet to know that a lot of these movements are actually connected the grassroots more profoundly than they are correct connected at the top. You know the the alt-right and the international outright copy one another watch what one another's doing borrow tactics sometimes share memes or share ways of doing politics, and that is happening organically all the time it happens on. On Twitter on facebook on. Read it on four. Chan you know they watch what one another is doing in. Imitate the politics and I again. There are a few examples of that, too. I think one of the one of the moments when you can see this most clearly was when there was the fire, at Notre, Dame cathedral in Paris, and this was immediately attributed by some people to Muslims, who allegedly set off the fire, and there were these memes and accounts and supposed- facebook posts that were being passed around. Around the European right sort of proving that this was a Muslim attack on Christian culture in lots of photographs of France, being taken over by Islam, and so on this became a moment that was shared by a lot of people, so even though it's a little bit counterintuitive in that these are your nationalist movements. They've managed in the modern era to find a few things that they can agree on a one of them is dislike immigration. Another is the. Dislike of. Modern acceptance of homosexuality and feminism so a lot of them are advocate returning to some kind of traditional family roles, and those are things that above and beyond the normal things that nationalists disagree about like. What should be the border between France and Germany or You know. Where's the border? Between and Austria those are old or old arguments beyond all that they now have these common themes that linked them together and and I think they are international phenomenon, and it's fair to talk about such. And yet certain. Themes play much bigger in certain locations than others so the recent Polish election. The presidential elections as best as I could tell from afar the law and Justice party ran it almost entirely as an anti gay campaign. I hadn't realized that LGBT issues were quite as. You know we're the central faultline of political division in Poland, but I don't have the sense that you know Salvini in. Italy is especially focused on. LGBT issues. How did that come to play such a massive role in Polish politics? So it was a central theme in the last election, it is not historically a theme of importance in Poland at all. It is not an ancient problem that we've been talking about for a long time. It has emerged recently. Very recently, I. I think it's partly connected to. Their now they're announcing european-wide Catholic movements that have been pushing the idea that I mean the expression they use as lgbt as an ideology. That people they use these Russian Poland in Poland gender, too, gender ideology, as it just sounds confusing an English and this they do share this. You can hear on the right in Spain. You can hear it on the right in France you can hear echoes of it in in some other places, so it's not totally unique to Poland, but the way against using Polish politics I suspect is kind of signaling messaging mechanism. You know it's it's. It's meant to appeal to people who need to be reminded you know which side of the barricades there on you know. Are you on the side of? The family Poland. Tradition in history, or are you on the side of you know foreigners, the West big business and and things you don't like. And it's it's a kind of wedge. Issue seems to divide people. It has to be said that it divides them very angrily on both sides, and there were people who were infuriated on the by the by the president's use of that language during the campaign, and there was a huge backlash against it so much so that his daughter Actually Mehta speech on election night that was meant to sort of mollify people something about tolerance, and how people should be treated well. Something like that. You know so it didn't. It's not it's not like that kind of language has universal appeal, but it's a kind of. It's a signalling mechanism. I mean it's a little bit. You know the way politics is done. Nowadays can be pretty confusing, because although it was central to the campaign. That doesn't mean that now. You know the Polish. State will arrest gay people you know, or there will be some kind of punitive. Placed on them or something like that? No now they will abandon the issue, and they won't talk about it or at least not much until the next election. I mean it's it's more of a signalling mechanism. way of helping people identify which side of this polarized country they're on. But I agree it's in even I'll tell. You even feels odd in Poland because you know three years ago, it wasn't part of Polish. Politics announced somehow it is. So I wanNA talk about the UK I was struck in your discussion of the UK. that with the exception of Boris Johnson for whom you display. I think essentially undisguised contempt. You treat with a great deal of sympathy. the Roger Scrutinize and think his name is heffer. Simon Simon Heffer, who are the kind of you know who are the evidence of people who, in other countries. You're really quite. I I wouldn't say savage, because you're never savage, but you. You really are tough on them. And these two intellectuals, British intellectuals I detect a sort of residual fondness for and I'm interested in why you seem to have more sympathy for the British nostalgia than for the sort of mythic past of these other countries will so those two people that we're talking? About are both sincere in other words I. think they really believe what they write both of them are. Are English nationalists. They would neither deny that's what they are, and they both feel sincerely. They're describing the world as they see it. And neither one of them has used that the emotion that they feel about their lost country. Neither one of them has used that to create a political project. You know these these are not in that sense that we talked about at the beginning. These are not Clark's or people who are in the service of a political movement. And so you know I thought they were important quote because I thought they reflected something. That's authentic in Britain. I mean you know modern Britain modern. Is Different From what it was one hundred years ago and There is a way of life that was common in England that is lost and they both. They both somehow acknowledge. Reflect that and so I felt their. You know their sense of loss was important to to transmit I. Don't I don't I? Don't blame either one of them. You know they weren't the ones who were conducting dishonest political campaigns about brexit either one of them. So, it's interesting, because in in the case of Hungary, for example you have A. An account of this woman Maria Schmidt I think her name is and and I suspect the difference here is that she is actively running at this point, a campaign of conspiracy theories and lies despite a rather distinguished intellectual past they are not is that. Is that the difference? Yes Marie. Schmidt is running. You know is this is the Funk actually of quite a lot of Viktor Orban's conspiracy campaigns. I think she's invented a lot of them. and she's one of the people who's helped him takeover, the media and Hungary, she's a she's an active figure in the destruction of independent political life in Hungary. You cannot say that you know you can't say that. Roger Screwed Who's WHO's recently died? You know he was an independent intellectual, and he had his views, and he had his little following, he was not a he was not actively seeking to upend British politics and that same sense. One of the interesting themes in this book, which I was very striking to me. Personally knowing your history in Poland is how prominent antisemitism is in the discussion, you and I have known each other for you know a lot of years now and eat I've always thought of you as somebody who is. Quite impatient with the Jewish communities rush to see antisemitism in Polish politics, and yet you have described in this book, a whole lot of antisemitic conspiracy theories about yourself kind of routine, venturing into Anti Semitism of the conspiracy theories that you describe as well as the law and Justice Party and so I. My my question is to what extent. You know normally when we think of conspiracy. Theorizing in Europe, antisemitism is always a big part of it It is certainly as you describe it a significant part of it in Hungary and Poland in this era. To what extent is that a general's is that a more general theme of this of this era of authoritarian movements in Europe, and also to what extent do you think it's resurgent as opposed to people like you having been in some denial about it earlier? You know I don't think I was in denial about it because I didn't feel it or see it in the past, it wasn't. It wasn't active part of politics. There were no major. Polish political parties talked about any you know on the contrary. You Know Poland. Over twenty years made huge efforts to speak to and and incorporate the views of the international Jewish community one of the results is a really spectacular Jewish Museum in Warsaw. Probably I mean surely the best in Europe actually, which was the joint product of years of. Money from the Polish government from Jews around the world. And a lot of people put their put a lot of effort into making it really good. And plus education at schools, and so there was really. I just don't think there was active. Anti Semitism in Polish politics. It's the IT started to appear. In the last several years originally again in the way it appears in the US in sort of what seemed to be extremist or strange parts of the Internet and so on. And then the the law and Justice Party began to weaponize it and use it I mean. It's very rarely open in Poland. It's more part you know. It's more that you know. There are Jewish an interest in buying taking back property in Warsaw. They scare people about that. It's usually part of a constellation of foreign things that people should be afraid of not I mean one of the reasons why I think they use the gay issue in Poland is because the Anti Semitism first of all doesn't work quite so well. When there are many Jews, also, the xenophobia doesn't work so well when the are foreigners, but there are a few actual gay people, so you can. You can much more real thing. But it works as a kind of constellation of foreign conspiratorial. Elements. I mean you get it in Hungary. You get it a little bit in Spain. You get it in France You get I mean even appeared in Britain should say on the other side of the political spectrum. There was a wave of kind of any semitic rhetoric on the far left of the British. Labour party's well I mean Jews as a representative foreigners of capital of outsiders who are trying to undermine US I mean it. kind of it weaves in with other themes, but you need to have a in order for it to have real. Real power, it needs you know politics behind it needs a political party who's willing to push it and use it and as I said until I mean even even the law and justice. Party didn't use it until recently I mean it's it's. It's a matter of the last two or three years, and in most European countries it was. It was taboo for a long time, so nobody uses it, but once people to use it, then it, you know it revised comes back into political life I. Mean I suppose what I was impatient within the past was. People who insisted on seeing fringe elements central, or who feared that you know old things were coming back because that's actually not with this is this is. This is a new phenomenon. I mean this is something that has been deliberately created in reconstructed and brought back to life. Knowingly it does not A. It's not some kind of holdover from the nineteen thirties. It's not as if Polish politics over the last thirty years where any Semitic just wasn't. Wasn't part of mainstream life. So and by the way I think this is true of any country. I mean we've seen in the United States that trump brought back a form of white supremacism, maybe guy from Queens talking about the confederate flag. You know how in how many people respected. That's a deliberate revival of kind of southern old fashioned white supremacism that. That hadn't been. Visible in national politics in a very long time, so these things can be revived in used by people, and that's you know that's what we're. That's what we're seeing. So we need to wrap up, but I want to ask you to conclude with a reflection on the title. The twilight of democracy could be seen as a as a reference to two wagner. I it could be seen as a reference to to Nietzsche. or it could be seen as a reference to the time of day. How should we understand the title the twilight of Democracy? I think we should understand it as a warning. That you know this is what these moods and these emotions and these movements are the kind of phenomenon that that have in the past led to the end of democracy. These are the. These are the the the kind of. You know the the signs that democracies in trouble. That doesn't mean that democracy will end or that. We have to be pessimistic. We can prevent these movements and moods from overwhelming us, but but we should be aware that they're there, and we should be aware of how powerful there. And apple bound. Thanks so much for joining us. Thanks, Dan. The law, fair podcast is produced in cooperation with the Brookings Institution. Our audio engineer. This episode is Zachary Frank of the Goat Rodeo firm. You need to do your part to promote the law. Fair podcasts tweet about us us on facebook. Pin US on pinterest up. Vote US on Reddit. Meek tiktok videos about us. Share us on social media sites. I haven't even ever heard of because I'm over fifty. Read. US and review us on whatever podcast distribution you found us on by our merch at the law. Fair store, DOT COM. The law fair podcast is produced and edited by Gen Paci Howell. Our music is performed by Sophia Yan, and as always thanks for listening.
Leading journalist arrested in Manila, Hungary for Hungarians, 52 polar bears roam northern Russian town
"The world is supported by legalzoom for those wanting to start a business or secure their family's future from wills and trusts to LLC's and trademarks legalzoom is committed to helping people get started Beagles, zoom dot com slash world press freedoms under attack today on the world. I'm Marco werman. We're seeing record numbers of journalists imprisoned around the world. Let's according to the committee to protect your lists. And today add another Maria Rosa the head of rap ler. A new site critical of Philippine President Rodrigo Detaille. Recipes colleagues, though are undeterred if the intention is student silence us, they haven't been quite successful. Because we have still been writing and reporting critically on this administration. And later why more than fifty polar bears decided to pay a visit to a town in the Russian Arctic. This is unusual for them to be a group. And yet here the are driven by climate change into entering into where Pim populations live those stories and more today, you're on the world. I'm Marco werman. This is the world. It seemed like just another day in the newsroom for journalists at rap ler messy groundbreaking independent online news site in the Philippines. The afternoon managers meeting had just wrapped up when several plainclothes security officials came in and served an arrest warrant for the new sites top editor attack that interested warrant has been issued. Well, really interesting, and I will follow. I just shocked that the rule of law has been broken to the point that I can't see it that's editor Maria speaking as she was arrested even before today's turn of events. Raza had been held up internationally as a champion of press freedom her rap. Learn new site has been critical of Philippines, president Rodrigo Detaille. It's exposed thousands of extra judicial killings committed during drug raids detach has branded rap ler. As fake news CHAI Hopi Lania heads rap lers investigative unit. She watched the arrest of wrestler from her desk. Suddenly we were alerted about depressants off agents from the national bureau of investigation while we were totally surprised by all that because we did not expect them to be to be present in the office for Ropley journalists actually live streamed the arrest at the. Spoke with the agents who arrested. So what did they tell you? They said there were just doing their jobs. They were just following orders. The asked them if they could wait for a lawyer to get to the office to their credit. They agreed. They said, yes, why did this happen? This is for cyber liable case that was filed in twenty seventeen a story was published five years before. And this story was about our former chief Justice. Yes, now past the way this former chief Justice, supposedly use the vehicle that was slammed to him by businessman, named will friend king in that story would describe Mr. king us having links, and this we got based on intelligence reports and previously published stories he was supposed to have links to illegal drugs human trafficking, our writer, Mr.. Raison dos actually spoke with him before we published a story and his side was included in the story. It's a little odd isn't it because we're up lers fairly critical of president Rodrigo Detaille. Are you surprised that this is the charge s you know, last year was up tough year for us? There were several cases filed against us. I think five or six total and Marie has been the target of of these cases, she's prime targets of all these cases. And we know that missing it is not very happy with the critical stories that we've published and the only reason is we could think of why there was this barrage of cases filed last years because he wants us to shut up is intimidation going to work Gye. I mean, journalists are in jail the camp publish, right? They tried this last year, and we're still publishing for still publishing stories that are that I think are fair if missing there. Deserves criticism than we criticize him. And if he does good things we also cite that we've been very very critical of extrajudicial killings. And I think that was one of the reasons why we got his attention Morever is a former CNN bureau chief. She was named the time magazine person of the year in twenty eighteen for defending press freedom. I mean, she's a very big deal. Not just in the Philippines, but all over the world. What kind of blowback right? Is this going to mean for the Philippines? If the intention is to silence us in in stop us from doing our jobs. They haven't been quite successful because we have still been writing and reporting critically on this administration. Try for you. I mean, just at a personal level. What's it been like working in the rap ler newsroom? And now today that you've seen agents of the government come in and arrest one of your colleagues. I I would say that what has happened is just emboldened me emboldened us, the reporters editors alike, intentions, and democratisation are very very clear to us. And we're very clear as well about our jobs strenuous, and we will continue reporting the truth. Supporting what we see and reporting what we hear nothing will change they'd have to lock up the newsroom and probably hall, not Maria, but the rest of a suit jail if they'd want to do that. Try hopefully Legna heads rap lers investigative unit. She's been telling us about the arrests today of Maria Rosa. Thank you very much. Thank you very much two Courtney. Raj is advocacy director of the committee to protect journalists. How does your s today Maria recipe fit into the larger picture of press freedom under Philippine President Detaille? Well, the press crackdown under Detaille has been pretty severe. And so this is part of an ongoing pattern of arrests and intimidation of independent news sites in the Philippines, especially if you're reporting on issues related to deter tease drug war to online harassment to the usage of troll armies as rapport had been doing your organization the committee to protect journalists tracks the number of journalists globally who've been jailed for their work. What is the current number? And how does it compare to like ten years ago? Sadly, we are seeing record numbers of journalists imprisoned around the world. And this is the third year running that we have seen more than. Two hundred and fifty journalists imprisoned or their work, and this is more than we've seen say a decade ago when there were between one hundred twenty one hundred ninety in any given year, but three countries are responsible for more than half of those imprisonments, and that's Turkey, China and Egypt. The fact is is that since we began keeping records Turkey and China have always been on that list and since the crackdown on the Arab spring and Egypt. It has also been at the top of that list of you've been able to determine whether Donald Trump's own attacks on American journalism have had like a real influence on the global crackdown on journalism. And how'd you even measure that we have seen an impact of that rhetoric around the world and one way that we do that. It was we track. How other leaders around the world are referencing the United States referencing false news in the usage by President Trump of that terminology and we've seen across the world in place. Like Russia and China, which really need no excuse because they already have very repressive regimes. But we saw for example, the the Chinese news agency tweet out when President Trump used that fake news terminology and said, hey, we're glad that we see that. You're finally realising. What we've known for years. What has been the impact of the digital age on how repressive governments go about cracking down on a free press? I it means that many more people are doing journalism. I think before the two thousand eleven uprisings in the Middle East and the so-called Arab spring. We saw that there was a bit greater freedom online in many countries for publishing, you know, for doing independent journalism, and that has really shifted the Arab spring was a big wakeup call to governments around the world that they had better get control of this online environment. And we've seen the repercussions of that over the past few years in terms of the significant increase in the number of journalists jailed who are working on line and. And the increase in the use of cybercrime laws and cyberterrorism law. False news laws that prohibit the dissemination of false news online. And in some cases, the penalties for violating those laws or even harsher when it happens online. There's this attempt to restrict and control that space. And when you couple that with the sophisticated surveillance technology that many countries like Egypt like Saudi Arabia and others are buying from western countries. The US Israel Europe, it's really an arms race in which it seems like journalists are leasing Brittany Rogers advocacy, director for the committee to protect your enlists. Thanks very much for being with us today. Courtney thanks so much Arzu. A Gabala is a journalist from other budgen like Maria Rosa at rap. Learn the Philippines, Arzu has experienced government pressure on the media first hand she in Russia have actually met a few times. Arzu gay Boola was forced to move to Turkey a few years ago. Because of online and harassment because of online harassment and threats at labeled her a traitor to other by John. The last time I visited it was April two thousand fourteen and it's been quite journey not realizing that I won't be able to go back because in the very beginning. I was thinking that this was going to be just a short term thing. Because the campaign against you by John involves the government as well as people online. What prompted this backlash. I guess we'll still have to give a bit of a country context. Because at the time when the campaign against me began it also coincided with a time when the government was cracking down on civil society as a whole, and the government was arresting scores of civil society activists, they targeted outspoken critics, and I was just one of them. I guess I gave our authorities a very easy tool to come after me. Because at the time I was reporting for a Armenian Turkish newspaper based out of estimable, cold agos. It's editor in chief was martyred into the house and seven I said writing a column there in two thousand thirteen and I remember receiving several warnings from my friends and colleagues telling me that I was playing with fire that I should not be a writing a column at a Turkish Armenian newspaper, given the relations between Armenia Azerbaijan, but I really truly believe conflict sensitive journalism, and I thought by becoming core. Spine in for the newspaper. I could play a small role. I guess I was wrong. The authorities use this as a weapon against way and that was discredited. I was humiliated I was held and of course, harassed online, and it wasn't just online slurs, but it was also death threats threats against my family rape threats. And also I received through unofficial channels allegations that the government would arrest me if I go back to as Rashawn. So this is why I've not been back since two thousand fourteen. You mentioned several very worrying forms of harassment. Is there? One Email a comment. You receive though that really stands out to you something that made you realize how serious the situation was for you and other budgen well, the first death threat. I think I was on face anyway, very descriptive, and it had sort of a time line on that I had three days left, and that I will they buried next to the editor of the Turkish Armenian newspaper in three days. And that I was in our meeting dog anything that was sort of like the first shocking experience of online harassment those petrifying, you know, live in assembles. I said in Turkey has also gotten a lot of international scrutiny for jailing journalists hundreds of journalists, what's it like reporting? There. It is challenging to say the least I don't write a lot about Turkey. I still continue covering as not Mason Turkey. But for me, it's been more about seeing how country that. Was once hoped for us for as Johnny civil society, which is not the case anymore, given the situation and one other thing that has been just mind boggling to me is how quickly things deteriorated in Turkey. It's really challenging environment is really difficult environment to be a journalist, and I have huge respect for Turkish journalists who keep doing their job. Painful to be called a traitor by the people in your own country. Like, how are you dealing with that? And are you hopeful you can go back to as by John one day? I would love to go back home. I dream of going back home. You know, is painful to know that people think a certain way of may even though I'm not a traitor. I never had tension of being a traitor, but such is a mindset of brainwashed citizen who is fed propaganda. And there is very little I can do. So I've decided to continue being open about my experience exposing these violations, but also keep writing about the country. No matter what they're calling me. Arzu gay Boola is a journalist from Azerbaijan who now lives in Turkey. Thanks very much for being with us today. Thank you for having me in a moment, globalization, plus artificial intelligence equals what for your jobs. We've got some answers coming up here on the world. This podcast is brought to you by Goldman Sachs for insights from leading thinkers on the state of markets industries and the global economy listen to our podcast exchanges at Goldman Sachs. You'll hear discussions on a variety of topics with far reaching implications from how venture capital is fueling innovation to the global shift toward renewable energy to the economic impacts of President Trump's legislative agenda and more that's exchanges at Goldman Sachs. Available on I tunes Spotify, Stitcher, soundcloud and Google play. And at GS dot com slash podcast. Marco werman here with the world. Take a look at South African social media this week in a hashtag will clue you in on the top issue on people's minds load, shedding this is all about electric city or the lack of it. Four days of rolling blackouts of led to a lot of grim. Humor about life without electricity South Africans preparing for darkness by walking around blindfolded stuff like that. But it's not just fun and memes. Trade unions were out protesting today. Hands off Eskom. That's the power utility at the center of the crisis. Protesters accuse Eskom of mismanagement and massive corruption. But they're against the government's plan to privatize state run. Utility Eskom is only generating about sixty percent of its power capacity. The result is blackouts that have left South Africa's largest cities without electricity for hours at a time. Eskom is in crisis and the risks it poses to South Africa. Great South African president Cyril Ramaphosa in his state of the nation address last week. He said the crisis could devastate the economy, and he wants to break up the utility into three companies. That's the plan the trade unions oppose. Here's a protester today complaining about unbundling utility, but keeping the same management. How unbundling don't s come when the same? Management still in charge. The guys that have been there are not going to get rid of the problems s come once paid out Eskom does not make money, but Eskom still continue to people how is unfunded and phone to solve the problem for his part Rama poses says dealing with Eskom. We'll be painful, but the consequences of delaying action would be more devastating that protest by the way was along a Johannesburg street where all the traffic lights were out. We've heard a lot since the two thousand sixteen elections about the casualties of globalization, the blue-collar worker in the rust belt, the yellow vest protester, but author Richard Baldwin says a new wave of globalization is on the way and this time it will target a different social class in the next few years as Baldwin expect to see a next generation robots going after white collar jobs in western countries. Robots don't pay taxes. They don't ask for benefits. They'll never ask for a raise. They can work twenty four hours if they have to over the weekend. Workers will find that incredibly unfair. And that just might spark a new sort of worker backlash Baldwin writes about it in his new book, the glow botox upheaval machines now mean computers can see they can talk. They can listen they can translate. They can generate outputs they can understand subtle patterns, and they couldn't do that in two thousand fifteen now with machine learning. We take masses of data where the question is clear and the outcome is clear and that the geniuses train a computer model to make guesses based on these subtle clues. And that's why they've acquired all these technologies. So a is going to get more muscular. You're also seeing platforms, I gather like EBay and Alibaba turning into places where you don't just purchase goods and stuff. You also by skilled professional services. What does that look like an do you see this happening already? Oh, yes. So up work. That's the largest one. It went. Public last year, and what they do like EBay, but for services, they help people who want to hire say, for example, logo designer or a translator copy editor they help them. Find them somewhere in the world, pay them, manage them and have the whole product delivered. This is services. Maybe the easiest way to think about it is freelancing gone global. Now the way you can see this is already done in a big way in industries like web development where it's very common that a coordinator will get online people sitting in different countries. Some somebody doing the coding somebody doing the user experience somebody doing the graphic designs, and they're on the screen all day long, working in some sort of virtual office producing a really top quality web website, very very quickly and for much less money than if it all had to be done in California or Germany or someplace like that. And I'm just projecting that this will spread to many other. Activities because ultimately, there's a huge cost savings to be made by hiring lower cost. Foreign service providers, it will open up this international wage competition that we've never really seen before in the service sector. What's going to happen with these globalization and service sector automation is many tasks chores at people do now will be done either remotely or automated Lii, and we'll need fewer people to do the same amount of work. So there will be a displacement of of jobs. That's the process it's not like all of a sudden on automated robot will take over the job of say, a journalist like yourself for a professor like me, you write about what some countries are doing to plan for the scenario Denmark. What are they doing to prepare? So the Danish model is they let firms hire and fire freely. Whatever you want. But then the government stands ready to do. Whatever is necessary to get the displace work new job. If they have to move. Cities they give support for that. If they need some income support. In the meantime, they do that retraining looking after the workers, not the jobs, and it's one of the reasons why in Denmark, they're willing to accept globalisation in automation, they embrace it in fact, because they know of eventually everybody will have a fighting chance of winning. It won't just always be the displaced workers paying the adjustment cost that suggests some progress, but I gotta say it's easy to imagine the dystopia scenario where humans are figuratively and literally prisoners of robots one of the arguments. You make Richard Baldwin is that ultimately, you think this can all be a good thing for society. So how and why I'm a pessimist in the short run an optimist in the long run. We will do the things that artificial intelligence and Tele migrants can't do so AI is very bad at the most human skills, so dealing with unknown situations. Managing people motivating people ethics creativity though. Those are things that computers have trouble doing, and so our jobs or the future will be filled with those more human tash. So I view this guy and the Tele migration as a good thing. Once we can get through the transition people's jobs will be more interesting because all the robotic repetitive stuff will be done by machines things that can be done remotely will be done remotely allow us to do things where we actually have to be together. So ultimately, I think it'll be a very very good thing is just we have to get from here to there in that transition. I can imagine that what you're predicting could well make a lot of powerful. People unhappy you see governments falling because of this up evil or our government's more likely to take advantage of the upheaval for their own power. Will I think the the move for populism is no way near over? We're in a situation where it's almost like a powder cake. People are feeling for Jilay invulnerability and. Anger from the last wave of globalization, and automation and into this. We're going to throw this explosive pace of digital technology, which will bring globalization and automation to a whole new set of people who've never seen it before white collar workers professional workers. And I think they will be angry and wouldn't be surprised if we get a backlash that has a political element to it. Who knows exactly what the backlash will be against? But the common denominator of all. This is digital technology. Richard Baldwin professor of international economics at the Graduate Institute in Geneva. His new book is the glow botox upheaval, globalization, robotics and the future of work. Thanks very much. Thanks for having. You can read an excerpt from the globe otics upheaval in here all about the brave new world that Baldwin is predicting just go to the world dot ORG. Marco werman half of the US candidates for president are women and across Europe women, increasingly hold high political offices, but not in Hungary, defending he'll go up into power, the less than you see on the top in the parliament, or the government can hardly see any beaming. What keeps women out of power in Hungary, that story still ahead here on the world? I'm Marco werman. This is the world where a co production of the BBC World Service. PRI WG be h here in Boston women in political power Britain. Norway, and Iceland all have women prime ministers, the German Chancellor, and the presidents of Lithuania. Croatia Estonia, all women, but one European country bucks the trend in a bad way, Hungary. So when women from all of Hungary's opposition parties came together in recent protests, and they were joined by trade unionists and students people took notice the world's Orla. Barry picks up the story. Demonstration's in Budapest against Prime Minister, Viktor Orban. It's women you hear making speeches and leading the protesters. Attempy disenchanted among the demonstrators unindo Knauf her two years old and is vice president of the political party momentum. Today, we are here to show. Our support this leader at t two words the unions. It's a protest against the regime has been a key figure in protests against the Hungarian government on issues such as working conditions immigration and civil society another leading figure is member of parliament Bernadette sale. She's been central to bringing women from Hungary's opposition parties. Together, the old appeared on stage recently, wearing white hats and scarves as a sign of solidarity up. The number female MP's is small sale believes the political parties themselves are to blame. Because basically, you can see that's the further you'll go up in the power the less women. You see it means that in little villages that are more and more demand who are in office, but on the top in the parliament or in the. Government who can hardly see. And if you mean, and after very top is Victoria Orban in twenty fifteen when asked why there were no women in his cabinet. He said few women could deal with the stress of politics. Kathy. Novak is an MP and a member of organs party. She holds a junior position in charge of family and youth policy. I asked her if she can explain the dearth of women in government in Hungary. We haven't had a very long history in modern democracies. So that means that we have had elections since nineteen ninety. I wonder how she feels about her prime minister's comments about women nothing up to the challenge of politics. That's true for any leading position. I think even in the labor market anywhere in private sector and also in politics. Yes, that's true. I even told it to openly at one of our party congresses that yes, this is a tough life for men and women as well. And I don't think that every man and not every. Woman is eligible for that. But women are often viewed as having a different role in Hungarian society than men here. Sociologist on co Gregor vitamin face with double responsibilities, their primary responsibility would be taking care of children and at lea- people. But on the other hand, the economy needs the female before so them in face, this double dual responsibility, and and can ask you wouldn't think there's obviously another element in this one the women, go home. What about the husband? The family Motors in Hungary, usually is that we have male Brad, VR and female cat taker and the woman also worked so this is the model the challenges facing the women taking on Victor Albans government are considerable and the pro government media doesn't help take the case of blanket Nash, a high school student who's been speaking out at anti-government rallies. After one of her speeches. She was vilified by pro government newspapers and TV channels because she used swear words one newspaper claimed she was failing at Schoon and it made up stories about her sex life. I asked blanket any of this bothers her. No, no. She says no fear on Donna, a leader of the momentum political party says the pro government media, which by the way represents the majority of media outlets in Hungary is not kind to her either. The arguments are based on that I may Engelman feed out children, and I'm not even working because what I'm doing is just a lot how they called me. Celebrate the activists like I'm just posing there and not actually protesting ten to twelve hours a day for three weeks even spending a night in jail, the more. They tried to to remind reputation the more I feel I can dig something. Right. So it's only a small number of female MP's and the backlash by the media. I wonder how women can be encouraged to get involved in any political movement. I ask if she's a message for young women in Hungary, raise their voice and stand up for what they believe in an end, the be afraid because there's more and more of us doing the same thing. And maybe. In time. More and more women running for office and making Hungary's parliament and little less man for the world. I'm more Bari Budapest. So Viktor Orban's wants women at home to have more children. Yes, he wants larger Hungary and families to combat the country's low birth rate and in exchange. He's promising financial benefits and programs for women who have four or more children. We're talking loan expansion programs subsidies for cars or been rolled out that policy over the weekend this week as our own Orla. Barry has been reporting from Hungary. We've also been talking with Kim lane Shep Lee, she's an expert on Hungary and a professor over Princeton. What do you make of Orban's announcement over the weekend that women with four or more children won't have to pay income taxes? What's that about Oregon is backed himself into a corner? And he's using a way to get out of that corner that we've seen before. So the corner is in is that Hungary, really has failing economic. Model? His policies have driven some say up to a million Hong Aaron's out of the country. And yet, he's also, of course, come down very hard against any form of immigration. So the question is how Hungary maintains a labor force if it's losing its population. And his answer is let's get women to have more kids. So that there will be Hungarians to actually hold up the economy. Now, it's all very familiar because Oregon has a terrible track record on women. And so the idea that women are going to bail him out of this problem is something that I think is familiar to a lot of us who've watched him in action for a long time. So women are going to bear the burden of of Orban's failed economic policies. I'm in. It's obviously oppressive for women is or bone also trying to create kind of Hungarian human facts on the ground kind of an anti immigrant policy. Yes. Well, this is part of his policy to shore up Hungary for the Hungarians in Hungary, like many of the countries in eastern Europe. And. For that matter like many advanced democracies around the world is having a declining birth rate. And if they don't have immigration or some other way of of bolstering the population numbers, they're going to be declining country. So and now that Orban has come out so strongly against immigration. This is his his way back. Now. One thing I think it's important to say about or abandon his policies about women is that he's long been add an advocate of big families. So he himself has a big family. This is something that very much comes with the territory of Hungarian nationalism. And right now, the group in Hungary that has the largest families are the Roma minority who have really taken a hit under the Orban's government. So it'll be interesting to see whether his policy really applies universally or whether it applies only to the Hungarians how'd of Hungary treatment of women in twenty nine thousand compared to like, the communist era. Oh, that's so interesting. Well in the communist era. Of course, women were recruited into the workforce and were actually promoted at much higher levels than they are now. So in some ways, the communist era was a golden age for women. Now, it was a golden age. And it wasn't since it was so awful for everybody. Having a great fate in the golden age means that you're not so well off so, you know, women were overwhelmingly all of the all of the judges all of the doctors some professions that we think of is relatively prestigious professions were actually completely dominated by women. During the communist time now, of course, they were dominated by women because they weren't such high status professions, then but still, you know, women have really had a lot of education and a history of great accomplishment in Hungary, the post communist period saw women really getting knocked back into very traditional roles. Job ads started being highly gendered. So there would be an advertisement for a manager. And it would literally say we want a man for the job. Or secretaries with you know, flirtatious abilities, you know, and those would be jobs for women. So this really has happened. You know, this kind of segregation of men and women has happened throughout the post communist time and Viktor Orban's party has simply made that worse Kim lane Schupp Lee, professor at Princeton. Thanks very much for speaking. With us again about Hungary. Really appreciate lovely to talk to you Marco. Experts say more than a million Muslims are being held in detention camps in Xinjiang in western China. They're mostly Wicker's, a minority group with cultural and religious ties to Turkey, according to the Chinese government. The camps are part of an effort to eradicate the quote, unquote, malignant tumor of Islamic extremism. That's how one official has described it, but human rights experts say China is brainwashing. Detainees and trading Muslims as if they suffer from a mental illness a few days ago Turkey issued some rare criticism of China's policy Incheon young as the world's Matthew bell reports. Some are hoping the pushback is just a start Nouri Turquel was born in Chinese reeducation-camp that was during an earlier crackdown in sheen Jong in nineteen seventy during China's cultural revolution Turquel came to the US in the mid nineteen ninety s he's a lawyer and an activist with a group called the Wieger human rights project. His parents are still in China. I have. Not seen my mother since my law school graduation two thousand four in my family suffering is still ongoing despite various attempts by the US government in the last ten years or so the Chinese have not allowed my parents to leave the country tour. Cal says the story is similar for many thousands of workers living outside of China. Just talking with someone on the phone back home can get them in trouble and even sent to a detention camp that begins to explain why Turkey says he was so encouraged to see Turkey issue a strongly worded condemnation of China's crackdown, and she Jong finally this is long overdue. Turkish government should be reasonably expected to come out as thirst country to respond when a government preceding the culture. That is connected to Turkey as a cancerous tumor and in religion. That is connected. Turkish people as a mental illness Turkey's foreign ministry called China's tree. Treatment of Wieger Muslims, a great embarrassment for humanity and called on the United Nations to end this human tragedy. Begging responded quickly saying these were vile criticisms from Turkey, China's state run CG T N blames western media for spreading falsehoods about change on why it's fake news being used time. And again as the basis of finger pointing and even policy-making why is the Turkish government? Suddenly using such a strong would the leadership in China is particularly sensitive to criticism from Turkey says Ryan thumb, he's an expert on sheen. John at the university of Nottingham over the last three or so years Turkey has been softening its tone on criticism of the Chinese government's treatment of weaker. So this is a growing improving relationship and to see Turkey take stand in the face of that especially after they just received a very large loan from the Chinese. It's quite a strong message. What prompted Turkish president reg type air to once government to finally take stand against China's mass incarceration of Muslims might have been changing attitudes in Turkey Mustafa Oculus, a Turkish writer and a senior fellow at the Cato Institute in Washington President on and his government doesn't care that much about public opinion in certain segments of Turkish society, but they care about the public opinion in their own base, which is broadly turkeys. We'll just conservatives roughly making half of the population. So I think public opinion among potential voters for the government made the government ultimately take the steps to speak out at this point. It's not clear if Turkey's tough talk will lead to real action toward China or if other Muslim-majority nations will follow Turkey's lead. But Oculus says they should to me this very important issue. Because first of all it said really one of the biggest. I will just feed them crises in the world right now. Almost a million people are in re education camps, kind of like gloves into Soviet Union trying to be brainwashed. And that in itself is a huge crisis. Plus, I think this shows today that we have to rethink the principles of democracy freedom open society human rights, again because we are at a time when her -tarian 'isms coming back in all corners of the world. And I think Muslims who are worried about the rule just read them off their own code religionists. And of course, other people should deeply worry about this Oculus says there have been a few examples of Muslim officials speaking up for human rights, and she John those have come from Malaysia, Indonesia and the organization of Islam cooperation. But so far it's not added up to anything like a sustained campaign calling China to account as for the US vice President Mike Pence gave a pointed. Speech a few months ago about China's human rights record beyond that. The Trump administration has been silent and doesn't appear to be taking the lead on this issue for the world. I'm Matthew bell. We also have a personal story about a weaker, man. The father of four boys he fled China. Xinjiang province for Turkey. You can read that at the world dot ORG. I'm Marco werman. This is the world. Okay. Guess if you can what the sound is. All right. Not an easy club. Talking about the truck. The sound in back of the truck. It was a bear Michika Russian slang for Barron case you were interested polar bears are roaming around northern Russia. At least fifty two of them have congregated in one village on Novia Zambia, a large island in the Russian Arctic. It is quite a sight. You can see for yourself, by the way on our Instagram where at PRI the world polar bears are no stranger to that part of Russia. But the number of polar bears is unusual and terrifying for people so what's bringing them closer to town. Charles Maine's joins us from Moscow, the bears were attracted to the local dump outside a little town Kabila go by this is on Novi Zimny up in the Arctic, of course. And you know, this is because the bears their standard hunting grounds, we're having trouble catching fish and wildlife Muth game that they normally would subsist on, you know, you talked to brush, and they will talk constantly about the fact that in the north you do see. Wildlife juicy polar bears, particularly around the dump. I mean, of course, this is like a snack bar for them. But the idea of fifty two coming. They're all at once in herds, essentially is just it's unheard of. But fundamentally there have been no reports of injuries. I should add local authorities are also outlined the idea of shooting at the bears that's a legal in Russia. So when they do is they tell people to shoot in the air if they need to try and scare them off with cars or horns, or whatever they can do. So polar bears usually hunt like as individuals. But now, they're in this big pack is that something that people are spotting right? And that's the other thing that that some of the climate scientists and wildlife specialist isn't pointing out this is unusual for them to be an group. And yet here they are driven by climate change into entering into where human populations live, you know. And then there are other ways that rushes in benefiting from the melting in the Arctic. So for example, the northern sea. Route is the fabled trade passage across the top of Russian into Asia. And this is something that. Russia's banking on for its future economic strategy. And it's changing the way that people live up north. They can stare at a banana from time to time and access to star fruit. I imagine there's some difficulty in how to respond. I mean, the the ficials say don't shoot out of them shoot in the air if you need to and then you've got all these jokes about a community of bears circling around and yet people are scared and hasn't there been an emergency declared around this there has been so they so the local authorities have declared a state of emergency. They did that over the weekend. And right now, you have military vehicles that are faring people around town. You have you know, taking kids to school, for example. So they don't encounter bears along the way. There have been reports also of cars parked near school lots. So they can sort of drive off and honked their horns should the bears get close, but you know, fundamentally, you know, this is something where they haven't reported any admin reports, of example, anybody shooting the bear dead. That's a legal in Russia. According to federal law, though, I imagine people might understand if some encounter. Happen. But at this point, anyway, it's it's been so far. These the local authorities seem to say that they have this under control, and they're trying to figure it out team is coming and also in from Moscow in the near day in tomorrow, I believe and they're going to be looking at ways to sort of encounter figure out strategies how to prevent this in the future. I mean, do they have a plan? I mean, it's hard to imagine Moscow has more concern for fifty two bears on the economic opportunity opened up in the Arctic. But still I mean, right. Yeah. No, it's true. And I and I and I think you're right. I mean, this is sort of a rare encounter, but what do you do to look population? You have to do something. So I think they're trying to figure out what what to do going forward. If this is going to keep happening. My heard some plans, for example to move the city dump a little further outside of town. So they're not so easily accessible for bears to then walk down the road. But obviously that takes some time and moving things around as well. I guess in the meantime, if you see a polar bear walking down the hallway don't follow it into the elevator. Right. They actually have have lessons. On the actual website from those non they say, basically the point is don't move standstill. I was kind of joking. But all right, Charles Maine's in Moscow. Thanks very much for the update on the polar bears. Thanks. All right. One ahead someplace where there's no chance of encountering polar bears. Let's go riding on the. Yeah. Let's go there with rocky looney a musician from Ghana the video is tuned is really cool drops you into the expanse of Ghanaian countryside. And it highlights the importance of bicycles especially for kids, especially girls where a two hour walk to school can be reduced to twenty minute. Bike ride. A lot of the bicycles are donated. Let me just say the video for let's go is just incredible. It's three hundred and sixty degrees. First of all. So you can toggle around where you are in Ghana, but you're also promoting this bicycle program. So a lot of the video is used singing and peddling through the Ghanaian countryside with a bunch of school kids. How much fun was that? It was really inspiring. Because for me the youth. Really are the foundation, you know, when you have schools that are, you know, bull Alto day, you know, the government's intention to educate the children of farmers and me having to put you to really engage these kids get into sing with them. And celebrate the same. Time to honored legacy of agriculture for my country. You know, was was really something special for me. I love cycling personally when was the last time you got to just go on a bike ride with a bunch of kids. He's been a while, you know, but that the freedom of it, you know, just getting on a bike riding the countryside and making turns discovering new villages new corners, new hideouts and having all these kids. You know, join me along the route was, you know, it took me also back to, you know, being a kid at having that sense of freedom, and that sense of mission and discovery it was really kind of stepping through time, you know, back into time for me myself. You know, the phone is on your new CD beats of Zion. The song let's go and it's also part of a promotional campaign for this initiative by the Cadbury chocolate company. It's called the Cadbury bicycle factory. What is that about? And how does it tie into this area of Ghana where they grow coffee and cocoa at felt that that initiative was accompanied that was doing everything is power to also give back to the places way to a sauce in its wealth. You know, it was something that I just jumped on it. And I went and saw how this like mobility in these village sentence that has literally spared micro economies in these agricultural areas, and definitely in the in line with the philosophy of sustainable change. I just felt that this was an incredibly initiative, and we did this three six video to owner that. Awake is now. Will. Gme ambulation, rocky, dooney and tuned. Let's go the three sixty degree video of rocky uninvite really puts you in gun or few minutes. Anyway, check it out at the world's Facebook page from an Annabel Harris duty as a W H in Boston. I'm Marco werman. You know, what time it is? He said. Let's go riding on that. Banyan? Of what you win. Pat. No.
Hungary's A Textbook Case For Democracy In Decline. Is America Next?
"This is on point. I'm meghna chakrabarti. There's a pattern out there. It seems that each week more political scientists and historians say that. Us democracy is under threat. And that if you want to see what might happen next in this country. Look to what's happening now. In hungary democracy scholarly druckman has been writing extensively about this. He recently published an analysis that found that american democracy behaves more like that of the authoritarian systems now found in turkey and hungary then it does in democracies found in canada and australia and on this very show earlier this month and a good malla busa director of the europe center at stanford university also pointed to hungary. She said that the thing that worries her is that if you squint really hard hungary and countries like it look like democracies you know. These countries still have elections. People still travel and they gather freely There's the government has genuinely popular among a significant minority but the minority rules like majority and it's basically supported democracy by attacking courts and oversight institutions by denouncing the opposition as illegitimate by attacking the media fake and in fact in many cases. Sort of making sure that only state propaganda outlets can survive and finally in the hungarian case by deliberately skewing the election laws in ways that permanently favor of the current governing party basically rewrote the constitution. Which is an unlikely outcome. The united states but the skewing of the election laws certainly looks very familiar so short of rewriting the constitution. I'm having a hard time hearing how this is meaningfully. Different from what is happening right now in the united states. It's not and that's what. I'm worried so today. We want to scrutinize this pattern to explore. Deeply what's happening in the european nation of hungary to its democracy and its people and to examine how it's similar to and different from the united states. What do americans need to learn from hungary's march to authoritarianism. We'll start with martin povey. She leads a human rights organization in hungary's capital. Budapest it's called the hungarian helsinki committee recall that hungary was under communist control for almost fifty years in the second half of the twentieth century. Marta remembers the sense of hope in her country. In the hetty years after the fall of the berlin wall in nineteen eighty nine. When hungary transitioned to a multi-party democracy in the middle of the nineteenth there was a completely different era. Obviously it was Just five years before that. The country had its first free elections and it was on a very Determined road to building a democracy. Marta says that being a human rights lawyer in the nineteen ninety s meant. She was at the vanguard of a nation's effort to free itself from the shackles of history. It was great to see that a human rights organization can actually affect change. That civil society has a space to operate more access to policymakers. We could have very often talked disagreements but still have a dialogue with them. And so i think it was a very hopeful period. I think we got an appreciation relate first hand about freedom. Guarantees say shakti fast forward to thirty years. Things are very different today. And twenty twenty one. We see how the basic fundamental pillars of that. Democracy are crumbling. My organization has been particularly in the crosshairs of the hungarian government. Very also my colleagues tonight over the past five six nerds found ourselves. Personally named and slandered. In what i consider surely propaganda that ultimately financed by my own tax payments. All my colleagues and myself to were included in a list of two hundred names people who work in academia who are trust work at civil society activists journalists. The article said that. We're all on the payroll of george soros that we're mercenaries of george stores based to be undermining hungry this policy of creating and fuelling hatred against certain social groups individuals is certainly something that i thought would not see in a democracy. I think it's quite well known around the world that in nineteen fifty. Six over two hundred thousand hungarians fled communism. They sought refuge in work received as refugees in a matter of a few weeks. The two hundred thousand people who left hungary for political reasons in nineteen fifty six roy also then followed by tens of thousands of people who left until the political changes took place in nineteen eighty nine. So you'd think everybody knows somebody. Everybody has a family member who had to flee and who who might make ted for political reasons for love to study or to were elsewhere still today as a place where it's very very difficult to even raise the idea that refugees coming to europe seeking protection from war and trauma are similar to these hungarian refugees who fled in one thousand nine hundred six. He idea that refugees should be protected that they are human beings with human dignity and rights under hungarian law and also international and low as become so tainted and hungry that if it's become really difficult to even raise the idea that nine thousand nine hundred fifty. Six hungarian refugees share similarities with people fleeing syria afghanistan or other words around the world. We are not being persecuted in the sentence. That's a happens. In in russia or belarus or turkey or azerbaijan or egypt or china. Certainly this is a an e member states and therefore the tools that anemia member state government uses to suppress are more in the form of legislative measures meant to stay civil society organization so outraged in the eu and twenty twenty one. We have situations where people might feel if they speak out against the government. Measure against government fuelled hatred. They might face risks or repercussions in their personal professional lives. This chilling fact is found not only in hungary but it's also in other countries around europe not everywhere not to the same extent. but it's growing. This is a disease of democracy that the european union seems to be unable to really impact the estimates happening within the eu. Marta povey she leads a human rights organization in. Budapest called the hungarian helsinki committee. We'll joining us now. Is kim shipley professor of sociology and international affairs at princeton university. She's lived in and visited hungary for many years even worked on the hungarian constitutional court in the nineteen nineties. She's author of the forthcoming book. The franken state how or on undermine democracy and provided a model for the world professor shipley. Welcome to you. Thanks for having me on the show also with us. Today on point news analyst jack beatty jack could have you go meghna kin jack actually want to start with you And just get your brief first reflections on even the fact that we're asking this question about are their similarities between the state of american democracy and hungary's march towards authoritarianism. Well i came across this quote of from viktor orban. In two thousand fifteen speech to party thinkers and the quote just seemed to me to be if you substituted the word hungary. If you substituted for hungary america you would have the motive of trump is and he said hungary has the right in every nation has the right to say that it does not want its country to change. I think that impulse is right at the center of of of trump Of of the trump inspiration of the republican party of its version of it. And it's it's a direct reaction even in the language to president obama who said changes here. You are the change you've been waiting for and we we hear the echo of of of tucker carlson's replacement theory. You know every immigrant who comes replaces me in the electric knocks the white people further down and and privileges newcomers with no stakes in this country. And what's striking to that of that sentiment of it. We do not want the country to change. What's striking about. That is how un-american it george santayana i think quite rightly said the only indigenous american religious faith is belief in tomorrow for for many people in the republican party. That belief is is has disappeared. It's been replaced by cultural despair. And and hungary i think shows the the political model that that can lead to and that. Perhaps it's happening every day in this country. As more and more people say i do not want the country to change. Well kim chablis we're just about a minute and a half off from our first break here. But i would love to hear your initial thoughts about viktor orban in hungary. And if i might say keying off with jack said The republican party here in the united states as it consolidates around trumpism. Such a good question and just to pick up from where Jack left off. What's so striking you know about orban's No change philosophy and you know. Trump's make america. Great again is that they're actually engaged in completely radical. Change in the moment. Now if you look at the us now compared to the us before trump came to power. It's a really transformed country and the same is true with orban's so the no change you know masquerades or at least hides you know what's really kind of fundamental undermining of democracy now. What both trump and orban's do is they they make reference to a kind of mythical past when things were better and they have to invent that mythical past you know so a lot of what they're doing is rewriting history trying to make the the winners turn out to be their supporters of that history and so in that sense i hear the echoes of Of orban's and trump really going in the same direction Well when we come back. We're going to learn more about viktor orban's rise to power in hungary and what he has done there in his leadership so standby we'll be back. This is on point. Hi i'm emilio. I'm a program manager at google right now. Lots of people are looking for ways to learn new job skills. That's why we created. 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Universities and concerned citizens committed to ensuring that everyone has the opportunity to invent and patent because the more diverse the american patents system gets the stronger and more successful. our nation will become. What can you do to help. Divers inventors patent and unleash economic opportunity. Find out at events together dot org learn more and take action today. This is on point. I'm meghna chakrabarti. And today we're taking deep. And detailed look at the state of democracy in the european nation of hungary and why well ever more political scientists and historians and scholars of democracy. Say if you want to know what direction. The united states might head in look at the authoritarian march going on in hungary now and in fact some of the links are pretty striking for example little over a year ago in rome. Hungarian prime minister viktor. Orban was invited to speak before an audience of american conservatives. At the edmund burke foundations national conservatism conference. He was very warmly received. And here on explains why he thinks it's easier for him. In hungary than for donald donald trump and the united states to assert nationalist values in hungary very much similar leftist opposition than president. Trump has definitely but somehow the attitude is different. You know that is a saying into hungary and politics that the nation cannot be no position even if you are in opposition you have to serve the nation so therefore therefore. I'm not an expert in america but you play understand correctly. The american politics many people hate more don't have from than loved own nation hungary prime minister viktor orban's speaking to an audience of american conservatives. At the edmund burke national conservative conservatism conference last year a little over a year ago. I should say. I'm joined today by jack. Beatty on point. News analyst and kim shipley professor of sociology and international affairs at princeton university and author of the forthcoming the franken state how orb undermine democracy and provided a model for the world and professor shipley. I actually think it's important for us to have a sort of an agreed upon. Set of facts about viktor orban's political path itself. So i wonder if you could just give us a little bit of a pocket history of his rise to power because hungry got a new constitution post-communist constitution in one thousand nine hundred eighty nine. Not long after that. You worked at the hungarian constitutional court until one thousand nine hundred ninety eight and if i remember correctly or bond i became prime minister just a couple of years after that in two thousand. So can you tell us a little bit more about sort of who he is and how he rose to power. Yeah so the first thing to say is that you know or bond was Just past university when the wall came down and he sort of shot to fame in hungary because he was one of the speakers at this giant sort of rally for You know when when when it was sort of clear that politics inaugurations was changing and he took to the microphone and he called for soviet troops to withdraw from hungary which looked incredibly brave at that time in a kind of faulted him onto the national scene he had already founded this political party fetus in which he's been really the only leader and at the time of the transition or on an his colleagues all portrayed themselves as libertarians. You know it was a young party. It was a it was a party that called for throwing out everything communist and they went into the first free and fair elections in a with this kind of branding and they did pretty well In nineteen ninety the problem is by nineteen ninety four the leicester had gone off. That particular brand and orban's party didn't do so well so when he was in opposition. He remade the party. He purged it of all the libertarians and took this sharp part turn to the right and so by the time of nine hundred ninety eight when there was another national election. His party actually came first so he was prime minister in two thousand but he actually became prime minister. Ninety eight ninety eight to two two thousand two but he had to governing coalition. So there were lots of signs during those four years that if he were left to govern alone he might be dangerous but because he governed in coalition. He didn't do anything that was as radical as he probably would have wanted so then he was defeated in two thousand and he was defeated again in two thousand six and while he was an opposition he created a whole network of what we're called civic circles to kind of boost his popularity throughout the country and support his political party so that by the time of the election in two thousand ten and by the way hungary experienced the financial crisis. It was under a caretaker. Government was under an imf austerity program by the election of two thousand or by look like the only sane and sensible candidate running in that election and he won and he won with with a bare majority of the vote. He got sixty seven percent of the seats in the parliament in a system in which a single two thirds vote of the parliament could change anything in the constitution. And it was that lineup. That gave him the legal power to do what he's done. And that is to shut down. Hungary democracy okay and also to prevent himself from ever losing an election again. Okay so While the that is actually an incredible analysis. So just hang on here for a second. Because i want to probe some parts of it a little bit here first of all When you say that it sounds like orban's political ideology Has shifted radically from the from the late. Eighty s to now. So can you. Can you identify a coherent political ideology that he has or is there none at all well so to some extent you know hit. The public platform of his party could not be more different freedom from it for everybody for freedom for nobody but there is this kind of link which is that orban's still believes in freedom for himself and so he refuses to be constrained by any law. It's like a libertarian fantasy. Right that anything about the state can be changed to suit your own. Personal will so in that sense or von. I think hasn't really changed. You know it's a. It's a bit. Like after the russian revolution and lenin realized the world was not going to be. You know entirely communist lennon. Developed this theory of communism in one country which led to everything. We saw the soviet union or ben has developed this theory of libertarianism. in one person Right which is that. He's the only one who can operate completely without constraint. Right well jack beatty do you hear. Echoes there between hungary and the united states. Well we have the authority of steve bannon. Who is has connected to abandon an adviser that or bond was trump before trump. which is which is frightening. I am connecting with this view. Sort of auto libertarianism. For surely that that describes donald trump his freedom for moral constraints his freedom from even the lip service to conventional norms is the most striking thing about him and it's and it's as if he's signaling to the change fearing voters and his base that he's free of the of the of the ambitions that liberal society and a generally liberal society imposes and that they'll be he he he'll do whatever he wants presumably for them but mostly for himself but that doesn't seem to bother his people because it is a defiance of the you know what we learned in college the liberal polite respectful multicultural multiethnic multiracial democracy. No no it's a rejection of that in style right. So so kim sharply tell tell us more about the civic circles that you talked about that or bond formed between two thousand six to two thousand ten almost if i could use the phrase almost like his interregnum between his moments of ascending to leadership in hungary. Because look i mean we have to stay to the obvious. Donald trump is not president. Right now he is not president of the united states but he is still arguably the most potent force in the republican party as we mentioned before the gop is very strongly consolidating around trump is so what lessons or parallels or even differences. Do you see between what or von did when he wasn't in power and what's happening with the gop and trumpism now. Yeah this is where. I think we have the scariest parallels so or bond. When he was out of power had a two prong strategy was that he urged his party of of everyone who wasn't personally loyal to him so he built a party. That was just lying in wait for an election. When the bane sort of left parties would be week. And that's what happened in two thousand ten and of course in the. Us we have a two party system so you know you can't wish for one party to stay in power forever. One day the republicans will come back and the question is what the party looks like. And if it looks like orban's fetus party where it's really designed to support one person or to support a kind of a strong man at the top. Then you'll be in some danger but there's also what the other thing that i did with. These civic circles was that he engaged in a kind of mass mobilization of civil society. And he did it a lot through the hungarian churches. He mobilized their members He got them all on board. They already had a pre existing structure. He was mobilising the kind of religious hungarian middle-class and through doing that he developed a very reliable base for his own party by feeding them sort of a lot of You know lines as mentioned you. Rewriting hungarian history developing a certain version of civic patriotism developing kind of intolerance for multiculturalism and laying the groundwork for what became the kind of fetus platform. When i came back to power so you see that kind of thing happening now with the republican party. Right it's alliance with the jellicoe movement. It's alliance with you. Know other groups that sort of foment a end up the militia movement and all of these oath keepers proud boys and so on And so all of that means that in addition to the republican republican party organization. You've got a whole civil sector that has mobilized to bring autocracy back Well hungry is a parliamentary system of government so ostensibly. There is fairly accurate representation in parliament of what What the hungarian people want. So i wonder where was the opposition during all of this. Is the opposition. Such a good question. So first of all You a parliamentary system and one of the weaknesses that we haven't hungary that fortunately we don't have in the us is that Basically a single two thirds vote of a unicameral parliament could change the constitution. So there's a lot more barriers to constitutional change In the united states which can act as a bit of a buffer but the difference. Is that the election. Laws in hungary After about two thousand didn't really match. What the political system look like essentially the election laws were designed to give a boost to whichever party got the most votes and there was sort of a six party system. So that meant that. You were boosting a plurality party into a majority usually but by the time of the two thousand election they were functionally two parties or two and a half parties. There was a kind of neo nazi party. In addition to the kind of organized left and when that happens the election laws catapulted orban's bare majority into this two thirds vote and he since rigged the election rules and this is really crucial. This is what i must say really scares me about what's happening in the us now. We already have a bias in favor of sort of minority parties winning elections. The electoral college ceased to that in the presidency. Gerrymandering cease to that in the house and the rules for the constitution of the senate ensure that a minority of the public will be represented with maturity of the senators. So we have a lot of bias. The us system in favor of minority -tarian rule what oregon did was was to make it possible for him to keep coming back as prime minister winning less and less of the popular vote so he's net orban's never had a majority a p- public opinion in his favor. Just like trump and yet he keeps winning these two thirds votes in the parliament which gives him the power to change the constitution from morning. John night and that's all through electoral manipulation both voter suppression but also through capturing the electoral machinery. Which is exactly what's going on here now. In fact i'm very worried that we will not be able to have free and fair elections in the united states and that will take us down the road organism. Jack i mean you sounded the same alarm about what you your concerns about. What might happen as soon as next year here in the united states. Yes yes. I'm reading one of these articles about Our friend steve levinsky who was on that program you will do just a bit ago one of those hundred scholars who signed the document wanting of these dangerous. He's quoted as saying i'm terrified. I think the republicans are going to steal the next election. Well he's a student of what he calls competitive authoritarianism that is not quite a dictatorship competitive because there still are elections but essentially authoritarian. Does that does that rubric. Kim fit the hungarian situation absolutely. And so actually You know they're all of these kind of ratings agencies for governments the most popular of which is something called the varieties of democracy project and they just in last year lowered hungary from the status of semi consolidated decree to the status of an electorally competitive. Jim electric authoritarian regime. Sorry exactly the the concept that levitsky invented. So what does that mean. It means that you go on having elections. It means you go on looking like a democracy as far as outsiders are concerned. But there's never any doubt about who wins those elections. And there's absolutely no chance that power will rotate. Which means you've you've disconnected the government from any base of democratic support and that's happened in hungary and again you know given the tremendous focus of the republican party on changing the rules of the game here. I think we are in real danger of that happening here as well. Well i want to so much to discuss here. Jack and kim but but i actually want to bring in the voice just briefly of a former. Hungarian politician gabor shearing who was elected to the hungarian parliament. In two thousand ten just as we've been learning as or bon the bon was getting established. And we asked him what it was like to be an opposition. Mp and hungry in those days as an opposition mp between two thousand ten and fourteen. Your most important experience was that there is a role as separating hugh from every kind of decision So there was no way at all to influence what was happening. Restore bond has be about such a well-functioning efficient machinery of power. That no matter what you did inside or outside the parliament You fouled almost spiro s. as regular cities. It's a board shearing a former hungarian. Mp kim shipley i do. I do also wonder though whether the hungarian opposition has to bear some responsibility here because just Today in the new york times. Slow g jacker. A philosopher was quoted in the times saying that part of the problem in terms of the the rise of populist governments especially in europe is excessive moralism from from the left and left. That's actually in disarray. And not focusing enough on economic concerns. That voters are focused on. Did that happen in hungary. We've just got about thirty seconds before the break. Yeah so. The opposition was divided between a lot of small parties. That were more concerned with winning points against each other than fighting or fun for a while but that's changed on the opposition in hungary. Has its act together. It's going to run as a single ticket against van and so it actually now in the opinion polls looks like it might actually have more popularity than oregon so the division of the opposition's a thing of the past. The question is whether or bond will let them win even if they have a majority so the question of being distracted by culture wars. Maybe isn't now the most urgent question because of the constitutional changes in hungary. Well when we come back we're going to talk about. Maybe some of the differences between the united states at hungry. This is on point. This is on point. Meghna talk ra bardy and today. We are taking a close look at the european nation of hungary because he scholars of democracy and history. Say if you want to know what might happen. In the united states a little bit down the line regarding the strength or fragility of our democracy take a look at what's happening to hungary now as it marches very clearly toward authoritarian rule. I'm joined today by jack beatty on points news analyst. Kim shepard is also with us. She's a professor of sociology and international affairs at princeton university and author of the forthcoming book. The franken state how or bond undermine democracy and provided a model for the world. She worked on the hungarian constitutional court for several years. In the one thousand nine hundred ninety s lived in and visited hungary many for many years. And in fact kim before we get to exploring some of the differences between In the united states in terms of the depth and strength of their relevance their relative democracies. i actually just wanted to hear a little bit from you about your personal experiences with viktor. orban I if i have this right. You've you've spent some time with him. and what these days when you get off the plane in hungary you have what extra company when it comes to police following you and things like that. Can you tell us a little bit about. Yeah so first of all hungary's a small country and it's not as difficult as it is in a big country like the us to meet people in the political elite. and i i was As you said working at the constitutional court as a researcher on nsf. Grants from the united states From ninety four to ninety eight and during that time i taught a course in comparative constitutional law out in ukraine. The sangari garin part of ukraine. And while i was there or abandon. His entourage showed up from the parliament as they were trying to craft their new nationalist message. They were trying it out. I on gary ins in the neighboring states. And so i recognized or run from television. I walked up to him in the lobby of the hotel and and asked if i could tag along as his group from the parliament was trying out these messages and he kind of let me tag along for a few days so that was how i met him and i must admit this was a nineteen ninety five. Just as he's pivoting from being a libertarian. To being a nationalist. And i remember coming back from that trip and saying to my friends in budapest. I've just met the most dangerous person that i've ever seen in person And they all said. Oh it's victor lost an election like he's nothing and what i could see in him was set. His mind is like a tractor beam. you know. It's the kind of thing that people say about like bill clinton or to some extent. Barack obama were when you're talking to them like you feel like there's nothing else in the world right but you in them and it's a kind of it's kind of skill or talent that causes your brain to evaporate right so i can see how so. Many people fell into orban's orbit But now that i've become a critic ever since orban came to power. I mean i don't really. I'm not involved in hungarian politics from a don't belong to a party. I don't vote or anything like that. But when orban's started crashing the constitution. Which was the thing i cared about i worked at the constitutional court started paying attention and as i became a critic the full power of the hungarian state against kind of unleashed on your rathers. Marta gets worse because she's actually living in hungary most of the time. But you know i. It started with death threats and then it started with my being followed when i'd show up in the country. My hungarian phone was td and my last visit. I was literally met at the plane door by five uniform. Police who didn't say anything didn't touch me. But just made a little circle around me as i waited for my suitcase at the airport and walked to the door of the airport. Which was i think welcomed hungary and the government knows. You're here So it's a little unnerving to know that they paid that much attention to when i'm in the country into what i'm doing but it's not gonna stop me from saying what's happening there. Wow well. you mentioned marta. Povey who we heard from at the top of the show human rights lawyer based in budapest We want to hear from her again a little bit. Because previously you she was describing. How hungary has changed over the past twenty to thirty years Under an under the rule of viktor orban but we also wanted to know what she thought is similar between hungary and the united states from her vantage point in budapest and she said i c quite a lot of similarities between what is happening in hungary or many parts of europe. And what's happening in the us. When it comes to polarization. I also see similarities about the weakening. A mainstream conservative missions. Something that the extreme far-right was talking about a few years back from the middle of the road positions for the hunger and conservatives and something like this can also be seen perhaps in the. Us what we've seen in hungary that you can take legal system and use it in a way that actually undermines your own democracy neurone legal system built on the rule of law whether this is a realistic risk for the united states is a different issue. Because you have more intricate system of governance right you have states you have the federal government and there is no such domineering. Hardy in any of the has congress. For many years. I think europeans particularly in eastern europe. Look to the us. As a as a model of strong democracy this is probably no longer true. The us has never been perfect but it was still much better than most in the past few years. I think this illusion as in chatter nd no longer her seen itself as a perfect role model for other citizens around the world the passionate. Where do you look for. Model democracy human rights lawyer. Marta povey head of the hungarian helsinki committee in budapest. Kim first of all just briefly reflect on on. Marta says there she does see some similarities but sees some particular differences too and she and she noted that just the structure of the united states government that we do have a two party system here rather than a multi party system so ostensibly There's always a a well-funded long established opposition party regardless of who's in the white house or who see who's who controls congress here in the us does that provide a better buttressing to protect democracy than what we've seen in hungary. Well that's such a good question and the answer is yes and no right. So the good thing about having a well organized. Opposition party as there is in the united states Is that it can at the moment sometimes win elections and sometimes roll back. Some of the changes you get under an autocratic government. The bad news that having two party system is like walking on two legs you know. Eventually you can't hop forever. You're going to have to step on the other foot and if you've got a party that is committed to undermining democracy which really the republican party. It's no longer a conservative party. I think marches point about weakening mainstream conservatism. It's absolutely right. The republican party is devoted to the goal of keeping itself in power forever. So you have one party committed to small d democracy and the other party not an in a two party system. That's really really really dangerous. We might also add that. One thing that or did was to try to bring the courts into line so that they couldn't tell him that what he was doing was illegal. And we've seen this massive shoveling of you know conservative judges. Many of whom don't really have the credentials to be judges onto the bench in the united states as well you know including the supreme court to the point where. It's not so clear that the courts are actually neutral in the political space anymore. And so those things worry me a lot and these changes in law which make it more likely that republicans will come to power. We're entering a new season of gerrymandering for example after the census which was also a bunch census. So there lots and lots of dangerous signals to say that the things you think of as protections in the us constitutional system will soon turn out to be liabilities. Well jack let me Benefit from your deep historical knowledge. Here because i also note that hungary is a relatively young democracy and given what kim is told us this hour. I'm going to put democracy in coats now. for for hungary because we're talking one thousand nine hundred eighty nine two to the present day and prior to that fifty years under communism whereas the united states has a multi century old democracy or the has been challenged multiple times for sure but Is there something to the duration of and the and the different experiences that we've had here with democracy in the united states that can provide a a better more strength more durability what you would hope so you would hope that sheer habit the that the acceptance of the rules but look what happened in the last election trump lost. He said he won. And the whole party is now building itself around that lie That's a that's a. That's a rebuff to the whole of american history. That's to say all of that stuff is just you know about loyal opposition except the will of the voters. No no. We have new rules in america. So i don't know how far the american past is prologue to the future. What i do know what. I fear is what some social scientists to paper on globalization called the ubiquity of loss. The sense that in the late industrial experience is one of omnipresent loss and decline namely the sort of capitalist industrialised technological force of insecurity that has to be behind the the populous backlash here there around the world. the sense of people's lives being insecure and being made insecure by this by this wurley gig of Of change that has brought of which the science speak of a sense of ubiquity of lost. That people Well kim is that. Is that a similar thread in hungary as well Yeah so you know. I think people forget you know in the in all the joy of the berlin wall coming down how hard the nineties were across the post-communist world as as there were these abrupt transitions people's lives were ripped up and there were set of people who felt like they lost a lot in that process including oregon and his followers from the countryside. And so this is a kind of payback against the people who won and a lot of what oregon is doing is trying to recover those losses by taking away the gains from the parties that one at that time. So yes. there's that background but it seems to me that there's also You know something going on here that we tend to think of hungary's a new democracy and therefore that it just didn't get good at it yet. But what hungary had going for. It was exactly what martha said right. Which was sometimes. People who've experienced dictatorship are more protective democracy than the people who take democracy for granted and hungary we did have a very vibrant democratic and constitutional space. It was a strong democracy. Even if it was new in fact it was stronger. Perhaps because it was new and people realized that it could disappear. What worries me about the. Us is that we believe that you know. We have a constitution bitten by geniuses that has brought us down to the present moment. But if you have an outdated constitutional framework you know our checks and balances rely on the thought that the senate will defend the prerogatives of the senate and the house will defend the prerogatives of the house and did o with all the other branches but the constitution was written before there were political parties. And now what we're seeing is something more like a parliamentary system of government in which the republicans across all of the different branches of government including by the way down into the state houses and state legislatures are operating as a single bloc where their institutions are not checking each other writing and did with the democrats. So the kinds of checks built into our constitutional. System don't work when you have parties working across institutional barriers and they no longer protect the prerogatives of their institutions. So the us constitutional system is extremely vulnerable right now and. I don't think we should think that our institutions are alden therefore vibrant our institutions are all in there for a bit rot it out from the inside while it's so fascinating that you mentioned state and local government is well because i was actually going to point that as a potential source of strength for us democracy because of the variegated nature of places in which there is power not just in washington but across the country. I would also still point to the courts for now as still being an independent branch of government. That's willing to push back against authoritarian leanings. Coming out of the executive Of course we could talk about how maybe that's changing with given who who's being put onto the court and and who's not being allowed to get onto the court but that's for another day but but came in jack. We've just got two minutes left here. And i'm very eager to hear What you think our lessons are for. Americans listening to this in this fascinating exploration. We've had of what's going on. In in hungary which came your sounding the you're making it sound like it's a democracy in name only now so regarding the press in the united states is the press. Bear some responsibility here. I mean it gets pretty distracted by some things that aren't necessarily the the undergird legal apparatus that's being changed in the united states. You know what about the democratic party. What about american citizens. What can what are the lessons here. Kim also you go ahead. Yeah so first of all it's a. It's a kind of hallmark of these autocrats that they try to distract the press and unfortunately the press allows itself to be distracted right. I mean what will get you know. Click what's quick bait but you know the latest trump tweeted the latest or banner -rageous statement. It's important though. I think for us all to keep our eye on the ball. What's happening to the democratic institutions. That are supposed to protect us so we need to look under the surface to ask you know. Do we have functioning institutions that can stop an autocratic push for power and i'm worried about that in the us. I saw in hungary that all of these institutions that i knew and london even worked within were captured so easily when the public was distracted by other things and culture wars however important and you know they are and however hateful the rhetoric is in. Everybody's got to respond but the culture wars are very often a distraction from the kinds of checks and balances and important sort of guard rails on democratic processes. That we need to keep intact for democracies to survive. We'll jack last thirty seconds. You're last thought about lessons. We should take away from this. Well i suppose to to vary the sinclair lois title. It can happen here. I mean we're american complacency for decades that. Oh my gosh can't happen. It can and under we've seen it happened in this nascent. Democracy and as kim suggests our democracy may be sort of long in the tooth and and vulnerable that way and vulnerable especially to this sort of moral nihilism that. That's that's that's driving a lot of this Rejection of the status quo jack beating on point us analysts always grateful to have thank you so much and kim shipley professor at princeton university and author of the forthcoming the franken state. It has been absolutely phenomenal to hear you this hour. Thank you so very much. This is on point.
How the Hungarian border wall remains a political symbol
"This is podcast. Welcome to ideas. I'm Nah I it. Long before the headlines that called it an invasion people have been walking the bulk and ripped through Hungary and onward to try to reach the heart of Europe. For a better life the dispossessed the refugees from war-torn lands and the merely hungry have been making this journey for hundreds of years then 2015 arrived and with it Syrians fleeing ghastly war. Afghans Iraqis Sudanese and others hundreds of thousands of people all at once landing on European shores and crossing borders and tides. They invited an outpouring of empathy in many places but also a fear anger and a frenzy offense building on the order of prime minister. Viktor Orban Hungary built a fence. That went up quickly that year. Giving shape to his promise to defend Hungary's borders against what he later described as a Muslim invasion. That threatened Europe's Christian identity five years later the thousands of migrants walking through Hungary on their way north are gone but the fence remains a potent political symbol and for some a pillar of Hungarian identity. This is the fourth part of our series walking the border walls that divide us. This episode is called a fence. In Hungary Kuba Causa is a village in the south of Hungary right on the border with Serbia and up against the fence that separates the two countries. Robert Molnar is the mayor a former national politician in the government of Viktor. Orban as thousand necker. Mickey Sherman one well. This is a village of sixteen hundred people to. It's not a very old village. And it's only one hundred and seventy five years old after we're close to where many migrants which also affects our lives and we're on the triple border of Hungary Serbia and Romania for and what I find interesting. Is that our village on a small scale has lived with the world has lived on a larger scale mcdade. Pasta following clock quitters Ashi Dot Com Amash Dick Labrador. Elliott has given us a hard time. Savers we suffer the consequences of the peace treaty after the First World War which basically cut Hungary and took away a lot of its territory so this village was itself for some time part of Serbia and for some time part of Romania are people suffered in the first world war in the Second World War and of course under communism as well and since we had a German ethnic minority living after the Second World War some of the made their escape because they thought my God if the Russians are coming in bad times for Salako and in fact those who stayed were actually extradited overnight. So that's why I'm saying that our history represents on a small scale everything that has happened to Hungary itself sometimes. That's what we're coming to. I guess can you talk about the more modern times? How how you are at the forefront of what's happening in the rest of the World Again de Democrats? Megan will conform to momentum matters. Electonic station macos dozen. We'll be yes but before we can talk about that we have to talk about this migration problems allow them. Let me tell you about one decisive moment in my life as long as I mentioned we had these ethnic minority Germans living in Kouba Kozerski who left or were extradited overnight from our village in two thousand fourteen. I organized a trip to Germany. Visit the survivors of those Germans. Who were born here but who had to leave the village and I remember meeting this old lady who was telling us. Here's that she had to leave because she was considered to be German and then she packed her bags. Enter children and arrived at the railway station at in Germany and there she was greeted with this look. The Hungarian Gypsy arrived ish means so here. She's Germans and over there and nowhere at home and that's it again Nixon. She says it's always resounding me this question. Where are you at home zero? Where are you from really me to Combat Anita Nest? Eli also in myself my personal. I don't do it on my mother's side. I have German roots. And what I can tell you is that we always have a choice. Latin and we have a responsibility around with choices. Were making their appoint circle when we will just have to say no even if the power elite have other ideas that does over. The fence is a necessity. We don't like fences. I mean Hungarian. Historical tradition having offense that the rest and borders of the country for forty years has given us an historical example and lesson. We don't like Dalton. Kovac is secretary of State for public diplomacy and relations in the Hungarian government. I just wonder if we could begin with with the primary purpose of the building the wall of the fence. Sorry and if you could talk about why you think it works we leave. I think it works because it works solid numbers on the ground. Tell you that the numbers we've seen certainly back in two thousand fifteen. And since the peak of the migration prizes the defense itself together with reinforced personnel on the ground and the reinforced legal environment was basically able to stop and bring down the number of illegal migrants close zero at the Hungarian Serbian border section. That's a proof fences work. Let's let's put it that way. This is not about dividing a natural unit that is Europe into two because of communism but this is defending Europe defending itself against a global phenomenon. And that is global mass migration issue now in face of that you see in. European countries playing a double game here to Yannis face policy because they require us to stop illegal migrants Anthony European Union but at the same time the claim that all migrants are basically refugees who should be welcomed. That's we don't believe it's the case certainly in place of what we've experienced actually here in Hungary back in two thousand fifteen and what we see. Invested in European countries that are not simply hundreds of thousands probably millions of people today in Europe who has no legal claim and foundation to stay in the European Union and it is impossible to send them back to where they started for obvious reasons so the only way to deal with this phenomenon and then the consequences of migrants coming through European Union by illegal means is to stop illegal migration at the borders. My name is butch who wanNA. I'm a senior analyst political capital which is Hungarian research institutes. I thought maybe we could start with with the fence. That was built in two thousand. Fifteen I just wonder if if you have a sense just to begin with if its popularity just how Hungarians look at it what it. What does it mean to Hungarians? Of course. We're talking about why the fence was built to cannot? Of course you have to focus on the question that so many people refugees and migrants came to Hungary or came through Hungary to opinion in two thousand fifteen and it was I think also special event because that was the first time that tonkery was faced with the massive migration with mess migration promote the country's so migration was not a topic before two thousand and fifteen dot. It didn't play a role for any of the political parties. Not even the far right played on the issue of of migration before and this situation changed completely in two thousand fifteen when so many people came to Hungary or through Hungary to European Union. And I think it's it's an important issue important event that was the first time to. Hungary was faced with mass migration because the population was not prepared for this event. And I think. Also many Hungarians thing that We're somehow losers of history at the time of the regime. Change the majority of the society. Hope that would the fall of communism and with democracy with a capitalist system Hungary or Hungarian tight in Hungary and people could develop economically and socially and somehow reached the kind of living standards which are more or less standard in in the western part of Europe. And I think the main kind of problem we have now like twenty five years or more than twenty five years after the regime change. Is that most of these hopes were broken and people don't or majority of of the people don't really think and feel that they are better off than they were area at the time of the regime change so broken promises broken hopes kind of laid the ground for sinful sentiments and for for political rhetoric and the political narrative that those people who come to us or who come to Europe Day pose a risk to our country to our nation to our society the Immigra- hush 'cause Uncle Moi Chicago may eight in Seoul migration crisis in two thousand fifteen affected us profoundly even before that happened. The far right yoga party started to say. Let's protect our borders. We need to have more guards more police and so on and that was the moment in time when you'll be popularity rose quite a lot whereas the Fidesz party popularity decreased so I think Fidesz was just raising the stakes saying okay. We'll build a fence and claim that we're protecting Hungary out of the five thousand kilometers of the European border. It's only one hundred seventy five kilometers. Which is just a fraction. But still it's very symbolic and a very good political message saying look on Gary and we are the wants to protect you. We Europeans really exploited these people in the Third World. But we were surprised. When the migrant said we want to talk to Muscle Hotel banquet and Karen Moxie managing editor the number to get better. Nick I completely agree that we have to protect our borders and there has to be order and protection but at the same time we have to remain human. You live so close to the border. I imagined that you I mean you are an expert. You know what it's like living here. What would you have done differently? How would you have solved the issue that was happening in Twenty fifteen or quantum criticality that mission? Shula Sharon I think that the Hungarian government made lots of mistakes and trying to solve this issue matt days but I also believe at the same time that the European Union also made a lot of mistakes and gives you because these local problems can only be solved by coordinating with the major powers. Viktor Orban's always says that migrants should stay home and we should send help to them there since there's been a history of Europeans exploiting these and we should have given them a hands to try to rebuild their lives. But that didn't happen. And it wasn't just the Hungarian government that failed to do so. But the major powers all secretary I'll put it to CONACO became beret book on Ish Ecclesia Basham Monteverde show. Victor has engaged in cheap rhetorical. Talk all along and like for example. He made those posters. Saying if you come to Hungary you're not gonNA take away jobs. Which of course the migrants wouldn't have understood anyway because it was written in Hungarian and the other thing is that as we learned seven hundred thousand people left for Western Europe to look for work. These many more than those who wanted to come in at obt northbound was just trying to deflect attention from that fact that it was seven hundred thousand young Hungarian people who had left to get close to the fence that separates Hungary from Serbia to actually get close and have a look is easier said than done even today long after the great wave has passed. There are still migrants in Serbia. Trying to find a way sometimes legally sometimes not to get too hungry. Npr So there are cameras. Everywhere and regular patrols border police who keep an eye on who comes and goes to get close to the border as a journalist you need to get a permit so we did and with our producer. Phil Coulter and our translator. We drove along a back road near Kobe. Khaza looking for the fence and all of a sudden there was well. It's a it's a fence made out of metal it's about three meters high barbed wire up top Looks a bit more fortified than I remember from four years ago? What used to be here. There's nothing here until the migrants started coming. There was there was just farmland but then they put up a very small fence a really low fence which is actually quite easy for a lot of migrants to get through and we saw people getting through them But then this is something a lot more sophisticated and it looks like. There's we've been told that it's actually electrified in parts. So can you describe it from the outside? And what do you see as we move across the fence but at the very front right next to the farmland is this fence about three meters high Scott barbed wire up top and then next a small ditch a little depression the ground some Brown grass and then you cross the dirt road and then there's a second fence which is just as high and it looks like that's the one that's electrified Cassara warning signs around it And then beyond that Serbia and now the cops are here. Looks like it. Looks like we've may be raised some kind of alarm. Oh all right we do have permission so it should be okay. Hello I speak English see from Canada. You do know we have permission. I think to be here. Yeah Yeah Joe. Pictures of it of sound. I'm doing a little few words. Yep I'm doing if you were sorry just the street. Did you see anybody today? Anybody Trying to cross through is which one has electric. Is this one electrified on on that? One can use so that almost all of our quiz show. So never touch. It definitely will not be your fifth annotate place very much from your being checked well. That was actually pretty quick isn't it? They came they came and he knew exactly who we were when I said we'RE CBC. He he knew precisely money. We've never claimed that the Hungarian fence itself was the one who stopped illegal migration the Hungarian fence together with the five others existing in Europe. We need to invest. We need to step up against illegal. Microsoft. Our own borders. As a matter of fact the most successful way of dealing with illegal migration is by the own wheel. The sovereign will of some member states inc a European countries and Brussels Brussels bureaucrats have a different vision of migration that it's impossible to reach a compromise under the terms date physically represent for the moment that fishing. How's IT different than yours. I believe us in. Europeans are much accustomed to migration that was happening for the past couple of decades. It's the sovereign decision but it cannot be enforced on others and certainly not on central and eastern European countries who have a different historical legacy different historical path and obviously a different political opinion for the moment many invested in Europe including The leadership of the political bureaucracy and leadership of Europe believes that migration is basically refreshing Europe's demography and population. We don't believe so. Our historical experience living next to Islam and next to a different culture for centuries is completely different. We cannot really be convinced on this very easily therefore compromises very very much not possible for the foreseeable future. The European project is based on the free will and cooperation of several member states. Any decision can only be done on the basis and foundation of consensus both political and legal if decisions and political goes. Go around consensus. They're not going to work for regionally in two thousand fifteen I think that Orban and his Advisors or friends told that Hungary might stop migration for its own sake and if Hungary doesn't cut in refugees maybe no other countries would send back migrants. Offense is one thing but what to do with people who've already gotten through whom you don't wish to keep or allowed to go forward. Many migrants who came through Hungary after the fence was built spent time in transit camps while the government tried to figure out what to do with them raising questions about Human Rights Istvan. Hege Douche is chair of the Hungarian Europe. Society unseen defense was erected. The IT'S A it's a criminal case in case someone wants to cross the border and required a little people arrested and Also they stopped to give minimal support to film seekers and There are big scandals today. That those who are waiting for the decisions of the Hungarian authorities in detention camps there are very few of them actually but they don't get Food Enough and it was the court in Strasbourg which decided that the Hungarian authorities have to get food for families in in that Translates zone so I think the original idea was to to to to push the responsibility to other members space and ear open institutions and then to criticize them that everything. What's going on? That migrants have arrived or refugees have arrived to Europe. Is the vote of this tool liberal to human policy of Angelo America and others and then Orban also realize actually even before the migrants have arrived to Europe from Turkey and from the Mediterranean that This can be a very efficient method to bring in fear into the society and before the influx of the migrants in two thousand fifteen. The Hungarian government already started a campaign against potential migrants. A saying in Hungarian billboards to the Hungarian citizens. If you come to Hungary you shouldn't take our jobs if you come to Hungary you should accept our culture. At first glance it looks like it's about religion but it's actually not religion or by never says that. We should make a difference between two Syrians whether they are Christians or not or or Muslims everybody is Mr Slim by definition and a refugee am. I grand is a Muslim and organ been successfully combined migration with terrorism. I think that's the main message of Victoria. Bannon who's on his feet as party and his government. The are saying that we are fighting a huge war war of civilizations Avar of cultures and VR defending kind of the traditional values the real Europe conservative Christian Europe against all those who are attacking us attacking our Europe and these these others who are attacking us they can be migrants. They can be refugees. They can be liberals for instance. They can beat the elite in Brussels. The eurocrats to feed and Victoria Ban US enemy pictures and kind of kind of scapegoats to create a situation in Hungary political atmosphere in Hungary where there are always kind of two sides the good side and the bad side and there's always a fight between the good side and the bad side and of course the government is always onto on the good side and they need these enemies in order to create this kind of war-like atmosphere eternal campaign in order to mobilize their voters in order to sow them this kind of picture of fighting a huge war and defending our country in defending our nation defending our values. You're listening to ideas on. Cbc Radio One in Canada across North America on Sirius. Xm On our end in Australia and around the world at CBC DOT CA slash ideas. I'm Nola Iot walls in the long term. Have a history of failure. The Berlin Wall the Great Wall of China. They all fail in. The people are very good at getting where they want to go under over or around them but we go on building them today on ideas offense. In Hungary part four in our series walking the border walls that divide us after our visit to the fence and that meeting with the Border Patrol. We walked through the village of Kobe Casa. Looking for someone to talk to someone who might remember the migrants twenty-fifth teeth just outside the village. A woman was putting out laundry. A dog was barking disciplined. Enough job you took picnic. It's okay we'll make it quick. Thank you very much thank you my name is Nulla. What's Your Name Fateh? What's it like? Living next to? This fence goes album Carmen. It doesn't bother me says Clara. We never go that way anyway. Does it make you feel I mean? Do you remember what it was like? In two two thousand and fifteen when there were people crossing all the probably onboard look. There were not many problems with them. She's has your technology shock on that Schenken Montel dock. There were a lot of people but they didn't really do any harm. How much do you think this fence made? A DIFFERENCE IN STOPPING THAT MOVEMENT TO PEOPLE SETTING TURBOMECA TO FOLLOW CAT Talamo F Kentish. But I think it wasn't really the fence that stop them. They would have stopped anyway because there was this one big wave of people and then after that it just died down. Thera- people in America who wants to build a fence and they say this is the best example of fence that works that has stopped people coming to Hungary and from Europe a Nemo Fish. Well there's really only offense here on the Serbian border. She says forty kilometers away. There's the border with Romania where there is no fence so it's not really defense stopping them. She says I. I'm wondering if you worry at all about what image this fence project to the outside world about Hungary Yokota long about asshole. You Meghan Babari cod does it does bother me. She saying because we got rid of one set of walls and now we're barricading ourselves in here with another set quickly. Tell me about that. Old set of walls Enforced fall. It There was no fence before she says it was farmland. That was protected. And you could see if somebody came through the border because the soldiers were patrolling it. We had no fence at all history. Repeating itself meaning Mash Four Mahbub kitchen modern about as that but they're niche Royal Nepal. There's nothing new under the Sun. History is repeating itself sudden thumbing spit shine. Allah taught Mega Jaakko L'Aquila Hobble Dash. Who you know people here were upset because they treated the migrants like animals. She says it took days before they got them. Toilets in garbage cans gave it could have been dealt with differently in the world would have seen the situation in a better way. Had Victor Orbin wanted to solve it quietly. She says he could have at birth took it. It was all a display for propaganda. She says politically mature Educators Roach Magic resolution to not report to Kottayam Entirely New Itani. Make Zoo. Vnu Thomas Chaklala. Political propaganda depends on the angle from which the cameras look at it. Or how you edit the story. You can make what happened. Frightening if you want to. But it wasn't really neck that magnetic easily. I'll hold you act. We could have dealt with it simply. She asked when there was. That crowd migrants in Colletti station. Budapest they basically solve that problem so they could do that. They could have done the same thing here to earlier a month before that these jeweler Takata Gone Your Order for Utah Utah. Tackle Zanu has clearly keke medical embarrassed that there's always some kind of hate propaganda going on Clara says earlier it was the Romance Pago against them. A house was burnt down and when that story played itself out then luckily for the haters the migrants came so that became the new story of hatred. Hutto Donald Zodiac Spot Bevan thick skin to wish about TV for auto show. They got rid of the big anti-migrant Posters Clara says but it's still in the local media papers. Tv everything coming from your car is archaic. Blackjack Netflix Jack. He's seek Matt. Who Kesler or David. I'm sorry she says but you can use political means to get whatever you want them to act as map to another film casuals director. This is an ugly thing. This hatred generating hatred. This is really ugly. She says you'll get Amnesty Schmidt Schmidt you for hot through Kathmandu commuter. Nancy do call me at Monaco. Nick Chater Nikki and oak to be stopped shaggy tunnel. Jose you bought ought to show political a what politics force these people to leave their homes says Clara and now we choose to hate people we don't even know we don't even know what their problems are. We should actually have helped them to get back to their home country. Unfortunately that's the way things are coquettish or that took attachment goal Dowie of bestowed for those who are afraid of the migrants. The fences perfect says Clara because it gives them something real but the fence won't protect. Anyone really appreciate your time. Thank you thank you so much really appreciate it. The solution is on the ground. It's where where these problems are happening. But in two thousand fifteen you still had thousands of people coming here. What would you have done differently? Aside from building offense aside from holding people transit centers. How would you have solved? If he were in Victoria Benz choose. What would you have done differently? Neither Keti Tisch April had rented they Syria Polish Mega. The fence itself is okay because it serves the purposes of security and safety so the fence as a security measure in itself is acceptable but the fence is a statement of political demagoguery. Is that's not acceptable. Any Sunday or mctavish scored Manana indicated politically. Ns in Orban's politics as well as with all autocratic politicians throughout history. They're always looking for a scapegoat. Would so you have to choose a good one? I he attacked the banks and the media could then attack the multinational corporations and attend the IMF and Brussels then the migrants came and that was a good scapegoat but then after the flood of migrants issue kind of die down and then it was the financier George Soros now it keeps going on cutting the national debt. Akin TO YAKUTIA CONQUER ROMANIA RUSSIA WARNING. Water killed overcoming torture. Then the museum was taught them would divide and rule is very good politics just like what the Romans did. Always have a scapegoat that you can point to. History repeats itself when we were young. It was the west in capitalism for example. When I was a kid I often went over. Romania to buy things and in Romania Hungarians were the enemy so we were always received in a hostile way and for Hitler. Jews were the scapegoat so when there were other problems because there's certain types of ambitious politicians choose a scapegoat. They can point a finger at despite everything you say. The message seems to work in Hungary am I. Am I right and that Hungarians even in in this town we've spoken to have said that they do feel safer with this policy. That migrants are something to be afraid of Joe. Mandak eight Mitch. Yeah this is kind of ironic but sad because very few people have actually seen migrants with their own eyes but at the time on the news there was a woman from the north of Hungary where they had never seen a single microchip. There was this lady putting bars in her window. Saying I'm afraid because migrants will come and they would rape me or rob me and this is the route that worked Dash Club Detach Charlottesville and I'm sorry to say that we're being manipulated on a daily basis. Not Everything is simplified. We get simple messages and we have to think in simple terms we are very limited in what we can do through actions because manipulation and propaganda all the way up. Shag Alberton Bendon Cott. What we see is a shrinking civic space but also shrinking space for for free speech on Josh. Lederer is information officer for the Hungarian Helsinki Committee. So there is a growing sense of self censorship that ordinary people decide not to speak their minds. Because it's better not to especially the need to come to such a hot topic civil society or refugees or at ubt rights or this whatever is on the agenda. I'm not the strategy of the government but I think that this is actually one of the strategy goals here. So it's not you know to make my mornings more difficult. It's more about a chilling effect. It's more about sending a message to the general public that once you start working with issues on which the government disagrees with you. You might end up in trouble. Said that the topic changes occasionally that what what what? The HOT TOPIC IS CHANGES. Occasionally for the government. And you say right. Now it's migrants. I'm curious why migrants. Why is it still such a big issue here for the government in some ways they are the perfect enemy because Hungary has very little experience refugees and to be of an image of a group? About which the general population has little or absolutely normal age whatsoever as the perfect story. Because you can build anything you want whatever you want and precisely because there is still no significant refugee community living in Hungary people want you know meet reality. There is no risk of people actually realizing that this is a lie. The desert of always doesn't exist so this is probably in that sense. The best enemy that The government can draw for itself. Why does it need an enemy? Well how how do these stories always were history? You'll always have to have an external enemy in order to strengthen your own position in order to convince your population that whatever issue they believe is more important. Education healthcare the crumbling social services and the social system. This is only the second or third most important issue because we are under threat by and then named the enemy it's You know there is nothing new under the Sun. The freedom of movement in the world is not provided EPA reasons migrations and other human right. Let's put it that way. We've seen efforts actually especially coming from Liberal so-called Liberals to establish migration as a as a fundamental human right. I think of the consequences What if ten million people deciding Africa from one to the other that enjoying that right. They come to Europe to United States. Or whichever party choose freely by their own wheel in the world. That's not going to work. We all know. Migraine exists around the globe for not only the case but centuries by now but the new phenomenon facing is mass migration which is being organized which is based on different foundations than the previous waves and the currencies of migration problematic. Would it be for you? If that migration was not Muslim just to begin with that it would that change your your attitude towards the people coming no because mass migration itself is serious security issue which comes as a first consideration not to talk about the other elements but it is cross Referenced with different culture which is trying to penetrate continent again. We have historical experience with that. We've been living next to slam for almost four hundred years then causes an an invasion. Yes because we have been invaded by the skull several times and resisting invasion now putting up resistance to what we've seen as a as a land invasion as well as a cultural invasion proved to be the successful way of surviving for Hungarian Hondurans and Hungary we all know that Islam and Christianity are not compatible love because either of them is superior or inferior but because they are different so there's a misconception invested in Europe that Islam is going to incorporate into the culture. We build here in this part of the world notes. Not We've again we've had and we are having historical experience with that for not only the case but central is behind us and the rest of the you can understand why a lot of the Western world might disagree with that where Christianity and Islam actually coexist in a place like Canada or the UK. Why couldn't it happen here because ratio and the number of those who live next to each other do matter this historical experience if the balance of power changes the rules are going to change? What would you say? And I'm sure you've answered this question. Many times to people who say that contains elements of just pure racism. No it's not it's pure commonsense. Nothing else I mean. That didn't Machandush. Elena lashed captain. It's not easy but I believe in peace and love and you think clear minus so we just have to give the people the message that we have a connection to others we are all humans making. I personally. Don't want to take up arms and I wouldn't that anybody to take up arms either. Gandhi said just silently present. What you stand for it and try to convince people that we are all there for each other. We will make changes than it. Might take timely kitschy. So it's a silent resistance. Basically that's all I can do now Zyuganov but I believe in that. I am a Christian Eastern and the Christian message of love. Peace should prevail eventually. Megani told you that Latino political editor shot to send them Chuck Accord Mine Politics have renewed or reborn which is easier said than donkey plan. The Bible talks about the idea of being reborn. You have to have new people with new ideas and new politicians because the ones we have their discredited not only on the government side but also in the opposition. Fortunately because they haven't come up with anyone either that who we but the major problem is that the people of Hungary have become indifferent to this to this demagoguery. That's coming from the government and we just have to shake people and say look. This is your life because embassy. This is your future in the life of your children can netted so we have to do something. That's what I believe in the possibilities for. Communications have become very limited. Recently there are some people who say that things have become so difficult in Hungary that it looks less like a democracy and more like something different. Would you agree with that Madero? Saga associated Goto your leg. The Demo but under Communism Hungary was what they called it the happiest prison which acknowledged that we were still in a cage under the influence of the Soviet Union but within that we had this Goulash communism. I'm sure which meant that. We were relatively well off compared to the other. Soviet country acknowledged and now I would say we are the least happy of the prisons because people have been broken. Morally that the emoluments a few years ago I went to Switzerland and my friends asked me. So what's going on with you? And Hungary and I found myself trying to defend Hungary via but at one point I realized there's nothing to defend because what's happening is so disappointing on the line and if the country's national politicians are like that it's very very difficult to act locally. In a different way the Hungarian society has changed and somehow the liberal views and ideas have lost their popularity Let's say ten fifteen years ago the FYFE as many crises not only the financial and economic crisis but also a sort of Adaptation to the European Union as sort of internal problem with corruption a disillusionment with the with left wing and liberal political forces. Which cab or been to come back to power nine years ago so I think the ongoing society was not nationalistic for example but at one point or ban could use nationalistic and populist at a messages to mobilize people and there was a shift towards the right in general so in principle there is a chance even today in Hungary for the opposition to change the outcome of history. No End to fight back. The problems are however very strong on the opposition side. What to say about the fans. For example many opposition parties are reluctant to condemn the fans. They are saying well. It's not a very good solution. Maybe we don't have any better ideas or bad defense is just about how to make control more efficient sort of rhetoric north saying that. What a shame it is to have you know sort of wall in the very center of Europe in other countries where populous Do not control the executive the government a non populist Democrats. I think should be courageous. And some of them are to talk about different. Issue was a swell to talk again about Policy issues which are important but also to talk about identity shoes so I think it's not a good strategy saying that populous can talk about nation and and strangers. And and you sign a phobia and fear and we do not react. You have to fight back and and talk about liberal values and multiculturalism and all these liberal ideas and you can also mobilize speaker. We truly believe that. If you like the cultural genome of Hungarians has a lot to do with the experience. Historical experiences hero. The crossroads of history in central Europe and those lessons and experiences suggests that the invasions we have survived the feminine we've seen including the coming of communism the attempts at changing society about pure. We'll ask the communist intended and the recent development of mass migration which meant in back in two thousand fifteen four hundred thousand people marching through the country and that was the first one experience for most Sangari is that they are not. They don't believe in migration as a resource for reinforcing Hungary and the continent. Why don't we spend more energy and attention on ourselves reinforcing? Our families family policies the benefits Hungarians enjoys I believe Hungary model as we speak which is not simply a policy-making and politics model because of migration. But it's an economic model and institutional model for the past eight nine years by now. It is working this possible within the confines of the European Union fully in line with European expectations. To concentrate more on your own resources on their own population for the benefit of Hungarians and for the benefit of European some residents had macbook moody checking them. Latch Hook in my is. This regime is already a thing of the past but people don't realize it yet. Of course my I'm a lawyer so I studied law in historian and you can learn from history if you're smart enough because you can see that everything has happened before but unfortunately our government doesn't learn and one of the main messages. Is that if you have power you can use it then you can abuse it can be but if you abuse it then eventually you pay the price and that's what's going to happen and it's a shame that it hasn't happened yet. Awkward for your book at that international McLennan Michigan. I'm positive convinced that this regime is gonNA fall big time. It's going to be some kind of a crisis but we will see it collapse. There's no the finish. What is democracy on? Or what makes the country democracy? Of course there are these. There are kind of a list of institutions which you should have must have if you want to call yourself. A democracy in Hungary has these institutions. Like as I said we have elections. Of course we have a constitutional court and so on and so forth but the real question is how these institutions function how these institutions work and with regard to this question. Hungary is not real democracy anymore. People in Democracies especially investor in democracies had the impression for many years. That troubles start to happen. When people are shot street then people are logged opping. Jails but this is a misunderstanding. It's always a cost benefit calculation. Yes that our genomes there. It got that far that it's still better for garage seem to shoot people or to massively incarcerate journalists and and and academics but you know if you can reach the same end video more subtle mean then. You don't have to jail anyone you don't have to key let me one. You don't have to shutdown organizations and then if you speak to journalists not to an NGO per Sunday might save all but you have to shut down certain media outlets which already happened here. So I think he's strayed very very far. Probably the country doesn't actually realize how far but you know as you I. I don't feel bad in this country because I'm Jewish. I feel bad in this country because of what is happening to the most vulnerable. People just want to go back briefly to the fence because we actually spent some time in the South yesterday and we interviewed the usual suspects. And then just some ordinary Hungarians. We literally stopped at a house and just knocked on the door and and the older lady came out and she was the front line witness to what was going on and she felt in her own words that ultimately the fence and the way that migrants were dealt with back then was a an act of political propaganda that it was just used as a as a way to to highlight fears that perhaps help the government sustain itself. What do you say to that? Because it's also criticism that comes from abroad quite to. Yes be old you respect. For individual opinion I was underground back in two thousand fifteen for four months the tens or hundreds of thousands of people. I've seen coming through the border. Marching through the motorways of Hungary trying to enter Western Europe by all means simply was not simply propaganda that because fact underground so if it's about responsible political behavior is always based on facts and facts on the ground at the very stubborn and at these hundreds of thousands intending to come to Europe every year. And we have a responsibility to not let it happen at the borders of Europe every our ability to stop them. Check those people and do something about what is happening. In Europe. I think their support the responsibility we carry. You might not agree with some of the wordings and phrasing and formulation of the messages. But still the fact remains our policies and therefore our political support and mandate that is coming from two thirds of the Hungarians with a majority of the constitutional majority in. Parliament is based on facts. Beyond what you think it does practically. What does the fence mean to you? As a Hungarian citizen the fence is a not a nice but necessary means off of protecting ourselves. That's the essence of fans. That's why you have a fence around your house at least here in Europe. That's that's the habit I know that. That's not the case in the United States. Not Many not enough every places but certainly in Europe take a look at United Kingdom for instance fast have always existed. That's a sign of territory and property and also sign up defense in face off a intrusion and those who violate your property. Ground your country. What we indicate that others don't try to tell us what to do because we are trying to do for what is best for us by own sovereign wheel on our way out of Kakaza. There was a grocery store and an older woman shopping. She says she's seventy four years old. Which means she was born. In the year the Second World War ended she will have lived through the years under communism the revolution of nineteen fifty six minutes. It's brutal suppression the years under Viktor Orban and his right-wing government and the events of Twenty fifteen and the migrants work here because we want to check how life has been since two thousand and fifteen since the fence went up. Do you feel safer here. Had the Iran Dolan del May get Shimon Domestic Sunshine Apollon? Yes it is much better. Now she sets but we still don't feel that it's completely safe. Tell me why you don't feel same mattress. Chuck your neck because people are still coming through. There are not a lot of them. But they're still coming. She says look if I did. I respect the right volume measurement and I'm a widow and I live by myself. She says I used to go at night to the cemetery to my husband's great to bring flowers but recently I don't dare to go out in the dark because I'm afraid or Yahu Vicario Mathieu and they need to make a call before there used to be crowds of them. The fence certainly stops the crowds. And yes. There are still a few coming through but much less than before defensive self visit make like visit security safety the ICAN again. Yes yes she says they said assistant that. Kitty DISH MAY GONNA probably my lone kidney tissue may auto he bought the fence means -tection but it also means isolation for us because it just cut us off from the rest of the world. We always like to think that we are an open society and we've always been trying to integrate with the West but this way when all the defense we will just be locked in. That's an idea that only ignorant people will buy into cycled habit inside the tables. I'd like a Gondola. Unfortunately we're living in a war of ideology. They are about to win because they have the money and this propaganda. This extreme propaganda pushing our faces is happening all the time you go on the streets. There's a poster you open the paper. There are the ads you watch the TV. It's all over everywhere government propaganda and if we lose the ideology then we lose the propaganda when it appeared that Asia young quarter. I like examples from the Bible and one example is when Moses was dying. He appointed Joshua to take the people to the promised. Land in Joshua did so probably. That's what's happening that on the surface. There's still someone who seems to be the leader widely underneath. Some New People are getting ready for the job. Maybe a small village. There's a mayor. I'm not thinking of myself someone else but it's going to happen that which is going to happen at the moment when no one is expecting Value Slow you could actually on ideas. You've been listening to a fence. And Hungary part four in our series walking the border walls that divide us on the program. You heard Robert Molnar. Mayor of the town of Coupon Huzzah Zoltan Kovacs Secretary of State for public diplomacy and relations in the Hungarian government on rush lederer information officer for the Hungarian. Helsinki Committee Istvan Higgins Chair of the Hungarian Europe Society and Bolts. You hunyady senior analyst at the Political Capital Institute in good thanks also to our translator and local producer in Hungary. Marty translations were read by Dion Johnston. This series walking the border walls. That divide us is produced by Philip Poultry. Lisa you so is the digital producer ideas. Technical production is by Daniel. Our senior producer is Nicholas Cage and the executive producer of ideas is Greg. Kelly and I'm Noah is for more. Cbc PODCASTS GO TO CBC DOT CA slash podcasts.
"What are the magister. The gives is going to be a good match in good match today. We have been waiting for this medicine come of verses playing budapest into hungary so their home match lord to a home accident we moved. So how about you. Being the manager hungary manager often does take us through your team property in for angry. I think glad he's good. He's in good form for. I'd be like i think all bond viola adela and lebron six in defense klein heuser nagy shaffer and holender as for midfield playing for vintage orleans silent prescribe in but anyway so i will bet on portable right so with the manager for nando santos who is it became again for team each. A big rig patricio. He's a good keeper. Woods left back. I think i nelson to san dangled for good. Pretty good for darkman ruben. Sierra's and sandbox has been cleared. The season for city diggers. Pretty good William cobb audio on rule fernandez later. I think bruno fernandez playing for diva with. I think bernardus would dot. John could pretty good team yet strong. They're very strong. They've i'm so happy to support the up with a nuclear even fernandez israeli moody united. Happy to see that they haven't jumped off. Some teams have most adored to see them. Implementing is pretty good. I think he has one more in him. Should should've played when he's ready to go there and see it would be nice. Yeah i think i'm going. So that's on the card above anything about him. He's been for manchester city. Manchester primarily general. In the dischord patricio das- nine days. When will georgia good experience. Playing big mattis is giving all players. I guess by all good that keeping. I think he'd be starting back them with me. Low is good. But i think they need do one more attacking the semi has base and they are find good eto for some good kicks also and then for the height benedict sunlight saw. What does the verdict support as much for this match at j. on one ago four zero portugal or is it. Yeah okay. I will give three zero. Okay so tell them move to the next match. The highlight of the tournament. I think match is going to be a very very big match for would teams where they're playing. They're going to be playing in munich. Germany's home francis fading fronts. So it's a whole match for germany. Be important that germany. Keep the good forum and being the company that had becoming ideas to abandon win. This sadly losing sixteen to poor to yup they want to. We never let's la-z-boy manageable the teams franz by The manga francaise de additions. And that's okay manager of germany due to laws been from fourteen. I guess is very instrumental in making the young team. Come up and play some extraordinary matches adding more. These teams north actually dropping on dan players. Also so let's go with the lineup for germany and good to see that manorial skipping no i i should have kept us as early would stay in nineteen. Yeah that's that's sad but the manual find lending. He stood buffon indebted homage or dig up batting. they'd be playing maybe to the amid feed us data vendors are think ford or maybe even fighting the fight group can be the formation. So what did we really get into hamas through ruediger. how months get does pretty good for vomit. Feeling i think goes ends good mood. Appeal the night Probably hamlets is good to go and left and committed the center. What what sunny. I don't wanna play in even start than stike. Not even t mobile enough. I don't think he's been in the best of forms. A movement may be pallet because he has good pace. But i think he come on as i think later when searching every weekday mornings starting at one of dot dinky missing art ability that there are a lot of young players probably the gloss ends. It has gained good and so digs are going to be big turning champions. Leads gordon. Well letting he'll start okay. Let's go to the theme of franz. Would i think this team is having a strong attack now that they've got bands in mind. I think the last eight years he was not being exactly the fact that and look for it is very good and the laces kibo to door by a powered bay for nine days but bradey. Good blame on news there there. Yup and then. I think bob gone date midfield. Maybe police the not back. And then i think they will put the under set up mentality of the players so good they are. That might be smarter at friends because they're playing and the german team looks like a barely so he put the i think what could do is since powers already dead bodies hernandez might be good for abuse. Because he's very very creative and for defensive. Conned date is now investment garden. Are there i think because introduction with these bands emma there i think it's gonna be unhappy wedeman starting on underscored as much as goes to get the biggest difference to actually said very strong team close again. Portugal beat them again in the violence. I think they'd want to start setting the tempo pretty high portugal getting an easy match or this idea but to. I'm putting to one to one. And did i'm putting it is to get look. Let's sit there. We'll see jennifer modal again. Joe watching thank.
Episode 184 People ProcessesPerformance
"This is dawn schuler certified trainer and business consultant at the shore group with when people thrive companies thrive podcast. As you know the name of this podcast is when people thrive companies thrive because our focus has been on making a company work better through there. People really working on the internal piece of an organization their best assets. There's a reason why they call it human resources and it's because the humans the employees the staff are one of the greatest resources the greatest assets that an organization can have now. We've designed a lot of our trainings and programs and tools and exercises with this in mind. But i have to admit that it's only been recently that we meaning my husband and business partner mark and i have gotten really clear about exactly how we do that and how we help our clients. I've recorded several episodes on forward motion. And i realized that forward motion derives just about everything. I do personally as well as professionally. I can't stand to stay stuck on a problem. I immediately tried to go for. Let solve it now. Sometimes you have to figure out why the problem exists in the first place but once that's clear especially as long as that is helping figure out the solution than move out of their get away from the blame game to figure out what happened and how we can fix it. Make sure it doesn't happen again and move on forward motion of also talked about zone of genius and how when we are truly working in our zone of genius. We are producing the best work. We are on fire. We are enthusiastic. We are energized. And it's that level of output that makes a huge difference in an organization. Myzone genius is really helping our clients. Connect the dots to see things that they otherwise cannot of course. Isn't that why you bring on a consultant so that they have that objective three sixty viewpoint that they can then help the management leadership team in the executives. Connect those dots. There is a couple of weeks at the end of last year where it was as if every interaction with our clients. I felt like we helped move them forward exponentially and they were thrilled and so it really had me look at that. Whole tagline when people thrive companies thrive. I realized it's not so much about making sure that the employees are happy. Little people but more about how the organization is in order for them to thrive which in turn helps the organization thrive so we broke it down into three areas people processes performance and i will break each one of them down individually so people what that means for us is obviously the people in your organization to have the right people. Are they engaged. Are they in alignment with the organization's core values. Do you have a positive culture. And so this is where you can look at the organizational side as well as the people side bringing in those core values and then really measuring whether the people in an organization are an alignment with those core values. Do you have people who are engaged. In hungary and enthusiastic and have an emotional and yet are still humble. Do you help your leaders and managers truly be champions for their people then you move into processes and this is. How do you do what you do. Does everyone know what their primary role is. Is it clear who owns a task. Is it clear what happens next. How do you measure results. This is where things like an organizational chart or as we call it a ability chart because who owns either the task strategy the outcome the project who is accountable or the processes. What are the checklists. Does everybody know what they're supposed to do. Even how do you onboard. How do you train. How do you evaluate your employees. How do you give feedback. And then the third piece of all this is performance are people operating zone of genius. Are they using their strengths. Are they engaged. Are you maximizing your staff. And this is where things like determining what their strengths are bringing together teams that utilized different strengths. So that it's a more robust team. How do you measure those results. And then you can bring in feedback evaluation in this arena as well. Do you see that these three legs people processes and performance that when they are all functioning well efficiently in a timely manner. Not getting stuck that. That is what makes the organization thrive another way. We could say it is that organizations thrive when the right people are performing at their best. That's really what it's about. Do you have the right people. Do they know what they should be doing. Are they doing it well. And is this the best use of their strength. That's really quite simple. So we tend to bring in tools for our clients to help them. Determine whatever is potentially a gap in these areas. Whether it's do they have the right people or are they performing the way they should be or are they utilizing them to the best of their ability. After we had our bits of an epiphany i realized that our company climate inventory gives insight into how an organization is operating in all three of these areas the people the processes on their performance and you can get an immediate temperature reading of how you're doing how that organization is doing in those areas as really fascinating for us as an organization to look at what we do because sometimes we just do it. We do add when you ask us to really explain it or define it or clarify it. We might stumble around or use vague abstract terms because it's so deep in our psyche in our heads and in our hearts that it's hard to verbalize and to make it more tangible. And so but i'm excited about is that we have found a way to make it more tangible. So now what are you supposed to take from all of this well first of all think about how you communicate what your organization does to the world. Can you simplify it or categorize it into definite tangible areas because when you can do that one it makes it easier for you to sell what the organization does. Whether you're a nonprofit a prophet service based product-based whatever secondly it really helps to give you that litmus test a way for you to communicate to your people your employees in your staff so that everybody's rowing the boat in the same direction so to speak so your assignment is. Do you need to clarify that. Even more one way to check is to ask some of your employees. What is it we do here. What would you say art organization does and see what kind of answers you get and then follow up with a question. And how do we do that and see what their answers are. That's going to tell you you are really clear about how you present what your organization does not only to the outside external world but internally to your employees in staff so i challenge you. Go ask your employees as questions. What is it that our organization doesn't how do we do it and see what they come back with. If you're happy with the answer right what can you do to maximize that and make it even better make it even more efficient. If you're not so happy with the answers that you're getting perhaps this is a place where we can help you and really home in on your people your processes your performance and where you can maybe make a few tweaks to make them all work together as efficiently as possible until next time. May you thrive.
"Prodigy was born from a single question can genius be created. Some are confident it can because it's already been done and in the nineteen eighties hungary educational psychologist prove that it was possible. He began training as children when they were only three years old. They broke barriers and dominated competitive for twenty years. An average thirty two year old man was assaulted one night outside of a bar. The resulting concussion rewired tuba senses creating a neurological condition. That made him a mathematical savant. London taxi drivers have to memorize upwards of twenty five thousand streets in a five mile radius. Emory scans of their brains revealed an enlarged hippocampus. The area responsible for memory and learning can we create changes in the brain. Like this on purpose for is there. A predetermined genetic barrier we inherit from our parents and cannot cross. We inherit physical traits eye color skin. Color height hairline dimples even ear lobes. How much of our intelligence is inherited their methods to find out but the knowledge could come with serious consequences. I spoke with brilliant. Academics groundbreaking researchers social scientist and the prodigies themselves to gain a understanding of intelligence skill acquisition. An expert performance disregard simple explanations because complex questions require complex answers. My name is lola berlanti. And i'm seeking the answer to a very complicated question. What is the nature of our intelligence listen to prodigy every thursday on the iheartradio app apple. Podcasts forever you get your podcasts.
#1,058 Hearts for the Least of These (Matthew 25:40)
"Pre The word with David, Platt is sourced from radical dot net. Matthew Chapter Twenty five I forty. And the King Lancer them truly I say to you. As you did it to one of the least of these my brothers. You did it to me. Those are pretty powerful words. She's speaking to his disciples about when he comes back in glory, all the angels with him, before him gathered all the nations and he separating. People from one another as a shepherd separates sheep from goats, and the king says to those on his right his sheep come you hear a blast by my father inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world because I was hungry, and you gave me food I was thirsty. You gave me drink. I was a stranger. You welcome to me I was naked, and you clothed me. I was sick and you visited me. I was in prison. You came to me. And the sheep are saying the righteous answering. When when did this happen? When did we feed you? See your thirsty. Give you drink. See your stranger. Welcome you, so you naked enclosed you. When did we see you sick or in prison? visit you and Jesus says. As you did it to one of the least of these my brothers you do to me. There's so much in this passage. Like one Jesus identification with his people. When you serve. Brothers and sisters in Christ, you are serving Christ himself. I want a powerful picture of Jesus identification with his church, and what Jesus calls us to do as his church. To Love Care for provide for lay down our lives for one another. For us to look two brothers and sisters specifically here. That's the language. Who are in Christ who are in need and to go to them and to serve them to care for them to provide for them. So I would just encourage each of us to ask even as I'm compelled to ask in my own art, reading this passage. Is, we pray according to God. What does this need to look like in our lives right now? God we WanNa have hearts that do this that love one another like this that see our brothers and sisters in Christ right around us. And far from us in need. It see Hungary brothers and sisters, thirsty brothers and sisters, those who are strangers sick in prison, and we go to them we serve them and care for them. God make us. As your people in our churches, a picture of this kind of love for one another and not just love for another love for you. Jesus, we want to love you. We want to serve you in. You're making crystal clear in this passage that when we do this. Love serve care for lay down our lives for our brothers and sisters in Christ. We are doing this for us or God. Help US practically. To put this into action makes us righteous like this we pray. Are we want to hear these things? Said about us by you Jesus on that day. So, help us. We pray even as we praise you. We praise you for your identification with us for your love for us as your church for all timidly the way you have seen us in need, and you have come to meet our deepest need, and you have promised to provide all of our needs. According to your riches, we praise you Jesus, and we pray that you would help us to be a reflection of you to one another. In your name, we pray. Amen.
How To Decide - Online Leads Vs Offline Leads
"The world so we know that there's offline and there's all my freezers paid now the metric. We're talking about time from here. There's different quality to each of those now. So if i think about it online the online leaders you know i on site. I drive traffic there by facebook ads. Google platelets i drive traffic there now. We know that. I'm gonna get that person might funnel and that's what i would call a relatively low quality lead now some other people would disagree with because because at some point they're going to convert at some point a cash cash tournament that person but along the way get typical. Typical mga leads will convert in eighteen months. That's that's what your bucket is. Sometimes sometimes victory faster some time to convert sixty months but overall it's a lot like a mainland right. That's that's that's when that's when the density happens is about eight months so what you have to do along the way to you have to do customer development rights. You need to spend time effort money in cultivating that cuts developing that customer. So what happens when eighteen months. What is your real return on that. So an awfully. I'm sorry. not only is is similar to hungary. Low-quality long sale cycle long gestation cycle. You know a lot of customers And then an offline. Lead the perfect example. Not flying again this is. The outlier is a referral. Very close belly to belly high-quality and going to convert. That's that's true version in thirty days. Right 'cause hey you sell your house. Ricky introduced us ric. That's a sewer so again a so. That's online offline paid to free again. I don't referrals are unclassifiable. Let's but so a paid lead is usually right and again. There's lots of noise. You buy that league you pay we all know. Here's what we know. Those leads are getting more expensive number. One quality is going down in ages more Getting them and so you're with them. And so how do you know so again. That's a that's that's the meal unconscious leader twenty or whatever it is but low quality you have to fight to get above the noise and that's additional efforts so So that's that's a paid lead of freely would be a perfect example. The referral the next the best qualified i would say is if you have a farm hopefully got far and you and you you have an event in the far or you don't often that your belly belly with that person and they say i'm interested in your services so that's that's great that's something that especially if your door knocking and you're looking for that's something that's going to convert relatively quickly dates. You already have that. Credibility are have that trust of that person so how do you maximize. What do you do to maximize quality and shortly timeframe.