19 Episode results for "Hooper"
The Big Podcast Submarine
"BOOP. BOOP. Hey. What's that sound? It's the big podcast submarine reemerging. It's David Hooper Bill podcast haven't taught here for a while and WanNa follow up with something that I said on the last episode. Mentioned meeting a musician who wants told me I'm the most creative person you'll ever meet. In a mentioned, my response being. Don't care how creative you are I care about how many records you can sell. I want to clarify that. That sounds a little bit harsh like all I cared about was her ability to sell music and I'm not saying that sales or money are the only thing that matters. When it comes to create good podcast or creating anything. There are plenty of podcasts that make money that in my opinion don't add a lot of value to the world. With that said though who am I to judge what people find of value? Sometimes. There's a disconnect between people. Parents who don't like their kids music, for example. But to bring this back around to the point that I mentioned I really don't care how creative you are. What I meant by I care about how many records you can sell. What I'm saying is I care about how you connect with people. Do you do it in a way that makes them want to spend money with you. Not because money is the goal. But because we vote. With our wallets. You might argue that we vote with our time and attention and some people do but there are also those of us who will stand in line for hours when a chick-fil-a opens to get a free chicken sandwich that they could easily come back the next day for. Spend a lot less time and maybe five bucks. Look I don't go to Chick-fil-a 'cause vegetarian. My numbers might be a little bit off, but you get the point when some restaurant that everybody's talking about opens or something happens that as as specific time people camp out for it. That does not happen because of creativity. There's nothing creative about a piece of chicken in between two. Pieces of bread and random. That looks and sounds wacky. That's not creative either it's just random. It looks and sounds wacky. Before everything shut down because of covid nineteen, we are actually getting in the same room with each other. There was a big meeting in my neighborhood with a developer who wanted to do what developers do and put in a huge development, and here's what he said. He said I want something creative. The Hill Zamin, that's all over the place. What people want an development is something that will meet their needs housing food services. Same thing for your podcast. If you focus on meeting the needs of people, that's when those people will merge. So don't worry about being creative with your podcast focus on meeting the needs of people people ask me all the time. How do I build an audience? What's the best thing I can do to build a big audience focus on meeting their needs Now you've got to build a big audience, but you're also going to build an audience that uses the ways that we vote time attention and money and give you some of those things for more for me. Reach out. Big PODCAST, DOT com. If you want to subscribe to this podcast, big PODCAST, dot com slash subscribe you'll see all my podcast on podcasting, building an audience making more money with your message. That's big podcast dot com slash subscribe. Thank you for listening to build a big podcast. Side note at the beginning of this episode, I've talked about the DIG podcasts submarine re-emerging. I'm always here does not on this specific podcast. If you go to big PODCASTS, dot com slash subscribe, you'll see all the podcasts at I'm on a more or less talking about the same thing that's building an audience spreading your message making more money with that message I'll give you a few different varieties of that. So good a big podcast, dot com slash subscribe you want more for me you'll hear from more often you'll hear from me in different ways, but it's going to get you that same goal building a big audience. Thanks for listening to build to be podcast on the next episode.
Audacity On Mac Is Broken Here's A Fix...
"David Hooper here this is build a big podcast do I sound different. Well I'm recording this on a Macintosh we still say that it sounds so formal Macintosh get down here a Mac for all you hipsters and I normally edit on a Mac using our dad acidy also record on audacity but that is with a PC and the big deal is that Matt Catalina the New Operating System Hugh for permission to use the microphone that you normally use and that's the big deal about Catalina is that it is requiring as I call it all hope is not lost if you go to the audacity homepage there is a workaround basically what it looks like is this you go to bonus for signing up I will send you some social media templates I will send you some episode templates I will send you a music licensing form so if you use music on your podcast for files named Terminal Click on that and again the code that you type in just copy and paste it it'll open audacity as normal everything looks the same ended asked extra permissions for things like microphones really files how it accesses files I think that's the big one and that's why so many things have fallen apart due around the team and audacity is working hard to fix this you don't have to do this but it's actually quite an easy work around you search for terminal you can oh do you want to give this Macintosh permission to use this microphone you say yes there you go so yes it works there is a work around all is not lost the type in it loads audacity in the way that Turner does I guess it bypasses the Catalina System it asked cast build a big podcast and the easiest way to do that is by going to big podcast dot com slash subscribe one click is all it takes iphone android program called terminal it's like an old school dos terminal you probably never use it unless you're some kind of computer nerd they give you the code it's quick to read takes you three five minutes to read and it keeps you updated on all the important podcasting news you can sign up at big PODCASTS DOT com as mm-hmm does not work with audacity except for this work around so we'll let you know if you're using a MAC computer or Macintosh except people sign off on this you're good to go you can do it legally some cool goodies when you sign up and you can do that at big podcast dot com you also want to be subscribed to this assess how do you get your podcast I'm GonNa get you with one click big podcast dot com slash subscribe so check out the work around if you're using a Mac you should be good to go and I will keep you posted on this if you WanNa make sure you get all the updates you won't be on my mailing list I send a weekly newsletter sometimes every couple of weeks I'm not going to spam you it's low volume due to Mac Catalina so if you have upgraded your according on a Mac and you're worried hey I can't podcast out what can I do well.
Meditation: Refuge in Presence (2020-09-23)
"The following meditation is led by Tara Brock. Tax Us more of my meditations join my email list. Please visit Tara Dot Com. were. Take a nice long deep breath right now as a way of collecting the attention inhaling and filling the lungs. And then let the out breath be slow enough that you can send the kind of releasing a letting go. Again, another long deep in breath. And with the out breath sensing that you can let go and relax any unnecessary tension or tightness. Let go the go. One, more time in ice full and breath. A slow even out breath releasing in letting go. Then as your breath now resumes in its natural rhythm. DEAL, the quality of presence sits right here. Since? Equality of. Heart presence. Fuelling your intention. For the meditation. The intention to be here. With your sensors awake. In touch with aliveness. Feeling this body breathing, we begin to scan down the body to. Increase sat sense refuge in presence. You might soften the is. LET THE BROW BE SMOOTH And fuel the aliveness in that region of the is. Receptive presence to what's right here You might bring a slight smile to the lips. And then fueling the inside of the mouth. Letting the tongue fill the lower palette. Relaxing down to the root of the tongue. Fueling the sense. To the teeth, the gums, the tongue lips. Again connecting with the aliveness that's right here. Letting that aliveness spread through the whole face. Perhaps, feeling tingling the scalp and skull. She can feel the whole face, the head inside of the Scalp and the skull everything awake. Here. You might feel your throat and imagine incense throat filling the neck. Opening to the sensations they're. Allowing the shoulders relax backing down a bit perhaps stuck in the chin slightly. And then filling the shoulders with awareness. See, if you can feel from the inside out. The aliveness in the shoulders. And where you feel tension or tightness because we carry so much in our shoulders. To let that flow to bit awareness. Allow the hands to rashed an easy effortless way. And then intentionally soften the hands. And softening again. and. Again. Feeling from the inside out the fingers palms. Fueling the tingling and vibrating. That's here the aliveness. An. Intimate. Receptive presence with life. Just as a cup. is filled with water. This whole body is filled with aliveness awareness. You might let there be openness to the chest. Fuel the region of the heart. Sometimes it's helpful to smile into the heart. To visualize, and since the felt sense of a smile spreading through the heart and the Chasse. And that's not to cover over but rather to create space. To really connect with life. That's here. Dealing intimately. The sensations the energy emotions in the region of the heart. If you could both listened to an touch. What's there? Scanning down or leading this next breath be received a softening belly. The SPA. And now this one. Again. Waking out? The quality of. presence, in the belly. Letting the belly be soft. Feeling that receptivity to whatever's there. Extending the scan. Through the Pelvic region. Letting that whole area be filled with awareness. Receptive presence. With aliveness. Noticing, what's like this moments experience? As awareness fills the whole torso. Down through the legs. Filling the feet. Then widening an opening to. Experience this whole body as a dance of sensation. A few sensation. Noticing, tingling, vibrating. Areas. Of. Warmth there coolness. Tightness or flow. Pleasantness or unpleasantness. This whole dance of Liar. Notice, how the more you let this live be just as it is. The more full an intimate. The more awake. And alive it is. Including the appearing disappearing of sound. Sounds. That are close in. Perhaps the most distant sounds you can hear. Sarah listening not just with your ears but your whole awareness. Resting in that open space if presence. That's listening to and feeling. This whole moment. To Take Refuge in presence in truth. Is Take, refuge. In this changing dance of aliveness. This change in stream sound. Sensation feelings. Relaxed Open presents. The relaxes with the changing stream. Allowing everything to be just as it is. And when the mind goes off as it naturally will into static thought forms. A virtual reality. When there's a noticing of that, relax open again into your senses. Listening to the sounds that are actually here. Rather than the sounds in your mind. Listening to feeling the aliveness and the body. The feelings and the heart. New might explore each time you awakened from thought to notice the difference between any thought form being in any virtual reality. Of the present thinking of the future the past. Images ideas. The difference, between that. And the immediacy and vitality and mystery of right here. This changing stream of experience? Let the noticing. Of being often thought. Here kind of invitation to take refuge in presence. Each time you move from thoughts back into. This immediate sensory reality. You're deepening your knowledge of the pathway home. Again. Listening. Listening to and feel in the body perhaps relaxing a bit. In areas that have re contracted. Letting go through the shoulders. Softening the hands. Though sinning and softening in the belly. Letting the breath received deep in the body. Smiling into the heart relaxing the heart. With an intimate presence fueling the life that you're. Listening to feeling the whole moment. The poet Jane Hooper Rights please come home. Please come home find the place. Where your feet nowhere to walk. And follow your own trail home. Please come home into your own body. Your own vessel your own, earth? Please come home into each and every cell. and. Fully into the space that surrounds you. Please come home to trusting yourself and your instincts. And your ways and you're knowing Come home and one sure firmly here. Please stay home for a while. And come to a depressed within. Please get a deep deep sense of what it's like to be truly home. For this last few moments, you might explore what it means to be at home in this body in this life. Relaxing. With what's arising? Letting everything be just as it is. After here, the sounding of the Gong. Opening your. Eyes. And sensing that you can continue to take refuge in presence. That you can take whatever you see with this present heart with your senses awake. Seeing, hearing and feeling this world with an open hearted awareness.
Mysteries of the Deep returns! This episode...Who really directed the classic 80's horror film POLTERGEIST? The answer may surprise you!
"The deep dive podcasts presents mysteries of the deep. Hello divers i'm tom feeney amateur sleuth and professional police lineup model. This is a side project. The deep dive podcast where myself and my co host manda take a look at what's available on streaming media on this episode. We'll dive into a minor hollywood mystery. There's no crime no sordid details no good guys or bad guys just a question who is actually responsible for one of the scariest movies of the nineteen eighty s mysteries of the deep presents. Who really directed poltergeist house. Looks just like the one next to it and the one next to that and the one next to that young couple living it give catechists with their three children and something more here poltergeist news. What scares you Yes the classic har- film poltergeist a twisted version of eighties suburbia where the american dream is turned into a disturbing nightmare. As a result of unchecked human expansion poltergeist explored the dark underbelly of suburban idea and the notion of the nuclear family nondescript cookie cutter vision of life husband. Wife kids dog two car garage. Swimming pool facade of normality built on an unstable and in this case foundation the film released in nineteen eighty-two was both a critical and box office. Success preview has most people who directed poltergeist. They may say stephen spielberg after all he was the writer and the producer and the film matches his style and cinematic sensibilities however the film is credited director. Tobe hooper best known for the much rougher and run here. The texas chainsaw massacre seems like a long way from central texas to the california suburbs and poltergeist doesn't feel like any other film. Hooper has directed four percents. This is led to much speculation about who actually directed the film. Toby hooper steven spielberg. The answer is not as easy as it may. Seem as poltergeist is preparing to enter production. Spielberg was working on post production of another more personal project. A child's joy a mother's love friends devotion in this season of peace. Sheer the match with your family. Steven spielberg's extraterrestrial. The pitchers rated. Pg doll playing theaters near you. Shaq newspapers according to spielberg's contract with universal studios. It was not permitted to direct another movie while still working on. At that plus coming director strike then that taking the helm of poltergeist was not an option however according to reports from both cast and crew the credit for directing the film should go to well both uber and spielberg taking all the published accounts into account. The two had an unusual working arrangement. Spielberg's spent most of the shooting schedule on the set advising hooper throughout the shoot ultimately. Hooper was the one saying action in cut. But since this was hooper's first major studio film pretty much had to defer to spielberg's wishes at a paraphrase boroughmuir. One does not simply override. The director of jaws also had to defer to spielberg's experience in dealing with complex special effects and professional actors in essence. Spielberg was calling the shots. And hooper was there to get a masterclass in-studio filmmaking. I all accounts. Hooper was happy to do so was the opportunity of a lifetime and if spielberg was willing to let hooper take the credit so be it now perhaps the final word about this debate comes from director. John leeann nettie who helmed the original annabel movie. The eneti was an assistant cameraman on poltergeist and was on the set every day of shooting. Two thousand seventeen. The nettie seemed to put the debate to rest. He said steven spielberg directed that moving. There's no question the nfc went on to say. It wasn't anything against toby every once in a while he would actually leave the set and let toby do a few things. Just because but really stephen directed it now. There are other accounts that describe a more collaborative relationship between the two directors but given their vastly different runs on the hollywood ladder. It seems likely that the more experienced and powerful part of the duo. The real driving force poulter. Thanks for listening. If this is the first time you've heard this podcast check out our past episodes and subscribe. So you don't miss a single and we would love to hear from you. Drop a line at the deep dive. Podcast at gmail.com or on our facebook instagram or twitter feeds and five links to those our website the deep dive podcast dot all clips used in the deep dive. Micra cast are meant for educational purposes only and not to infringe on existing copyrights deep dive. Mica cast is a production of automaton students.
269: Don't Just Go With The Flow. Take Action Because It Makes a Difference
"This is jaakko. Podcast number. Two sixty nine with echo charles and me daca willink beating the echo. Good evening and also joining us tonight. Is burke good evening dave. Good evening the last podcast with leif. We covered the first part of this marine corps manual. Which i don't even know yet. It's not really a manual. It's like somebody made this. It's called the squad. Leader makes a difference. And i know who made it. Actually lieutenant m m and lieutenant a. m terro. They made it at the war. The marine corps warfighting lab in august of nineteen ninety eight and. We're gonna push through the last few pages this book that we didn't cover last but then we're going to dive deeper into the last example which i actually moved to the end. And if you've ever wondered where these podcasts. Come from where my mind is going. You've ever wondered how unthinking through these things. This is an opportunity to follow me down a path of discovery to learn more about leadership to learn more about human nature and about war about history and about fear and about sorrow in about life and about deaf. It's an interesting ride and it all starts picking where we left off with this this manual. The squad leader makes a difference. The subtitle is readings on combat at the squad level. This book is a book. That by its very nature simultaneously establishes and reinforces culture of maneuver warfare. Enforces that it establishes it it it. He is decentralized commanded. It's a book about the front line leaders making a difference and stepping up and leading. So here we go. We're gonna go back to the book right now. This one is sergeant joe hooper. us army vietnam. Nineteen sixty eight sergeant. Joe hooper was a squad leader with d company second battalion five hundred first infantry hundred first airborne division near way city a big salute right now obviously to the second of the five. Oh i the awesome in january of nineteen sixty eight way was captured by the north vietnamese in the offensive. Us forces fought desperately deliberate vietnam. Ancient imperial city on february seventeenth. D company was assaulting a defended position along the riverbank outside way city when it was attacked by rockets and machine gunfire the company. Run into a defensive position. Man by two north vietnamese companies in dugout bunkers with the company pinned down by fire. Sergeant hooper located the source of the enemy fire. He rallied his squad and attacked across. The river overran several enemy bunkers. This bold maneuver inspired the rest of the company to join the attack during this attack. Some of sergeant hooper squad had been wounded. He ran out into the open to retrieve them but was seriously wounded himself. Sergeant hooper refused medical treatment and returned to his men. Enemy fire continued to hamper the attack. Sergeant who led his squad through the bunkers and buildings clearing a path for the company and mortally wounding north vietnamese officer when his squad came under direct fire from a building to their front sergeant. Hooper assaulted the building himself. And kill the enemy with grenades and rifle fire upon reaching the final line of the north vietnamese defenses. Sergeant hooper destroyed four bunkers by running the length of the position tossing grenades into each of the dugouts. The enemy soldiers began to withdraw from their positions. Sergeant hooper then led his squad in destroying the last two vietnamese bunkers with white phosphorous grenades after the last pocket of resistance was eliminated. Sergeant cooper organized his unit into defensive positions when the remainder of his company caught up sergeant. Hooper allowed himself to have his wounds treated sergeant. Hooper played a major role in defeating a large force of north vietnamese. D companies attack forced the withdrawal of north vietnamese reinforcements attempting to enter the city. The this action outside the city weakened the nba defenders inside way easing pressure on the besieged city and leading to the eventual liberation of the imperial capital. Oddly enough. it doesn't talk about him. Receiving the medal of honor anything after he's charging bunkers by himself. That's just who i guess. That's just what we're doing lessons. Sergeant hooper displayed exceptional leadership. His endurance despite being wounded served as an example to his squad and his company after taking initiative to assault across the river. Sergeant hooper squad assume the role of the company's main effort and spearheaded the attack. His exceptional courage under fire inspired the remainder of the company. Sergeant hooper's combat decisions and tactical leadership at the squad level. Contribute contribute to his company success in this bitter fight with the north vietnamese attempt to reinforce the city halted other forces were able to clear the city. this is A obviously this is the kind of initiative. This is the kind of for action that the marine corps talks about all the time. This is the kind of initiative that we try and train leaders to have at every level that they are going to make things happen. That's what we want and they've followed up this quote i've actually we. We actually hit this quote before. But i'm gonna hit it again. Recovered it a while ago on podcasts. Sixty two are the peak. His book battle studies. Listen to this though. Listen to this and think about this. Four brave men who do not know each other will not dare to attack a lion for less brave men but knowing each other well sure of their reliability and consequently of mutual aid will attack resolutely there is the science of the organization of armies in a nutshell. When i was in south afterlife and i went on to south africa we work with some companies down there and i heard that they wasn't in this context but they were talking about how back in the day. The african tribes would hunt lions with spears. But they would say you know be like three or four guys that would be able to take line because they maneuver in from different angles and they could eventually kill the lion and this was after the conversation that i don't know if you know this in south in africa there's no lions living out in the wild they're all in these these big giant game reserves which are like the wild. But they're not in the wild. Why is that because you have frequent lions roaming around killing people. I mean you're no match for lion no match but if you've got some friends three friends for you think about the okay. What are the odds if you were to do this. The odds of a human beating ally in a fight. What are the odds. What are you know like it is not. It's it's almost zero. How is it. How's a human going to kill a lion in a fight right okay. You give them a spirit. He has some kind of a chance. But it ain't good when a frigging lions coming at you that things just. It's a slaughter but as soon as you got some friends and you can make some maneuvers. Now you can not only can you win. You are confident enough that you do it on a regular basis. That's decentralized command. That's not only decentralized command. That's what a good team is a good team was. He caught the the the if you're sure of the mutual aid. If i know you got my back. That's the strength of the team. I like how he used the phrase and that the science of organizations and we think of science all this research and all this analysis in all things you know what the science of organizations got relationships. That's the science that's all you need to know I think that that quote that word actually. I wrote that down because that that rung loudly of. There's actually it's not. It's not complicated. This is not a complicated. You have to have someone that you trust. Which is the person you'll do so much more with some with just one other person that you trust. Then what you do as a own. Yeah and before. I jumped on completed your sentence for you. You're going to say relationships right. And i was already in the combat motive. I got your back. Because that's what do you don't you don't tell a lance corporal. Hey you need to build a relationship now you say you gotta make sure they got your back right but if you're talking to a business which is what we do. It's hey you gotta make sure you're building good relationships. You gotta make sure that they know they're going to give you the support that mutual aid if you need it. That's what we're doing and if we have that. We're unstoppable for three of us can take a lion corporal gregory corporal. Gregory was a squad leader. This vietnam nineteen seventy-one. Us marine corps corporal. Gregory was a squad leader assigned to the first combined unit percents pacification platoon third battalion. First marines the unit was the northernmost marine unit in vietnam corp. gregory's combat experience had made him and extremely proficient infantry leader. He placed strong emphasis on training in the field. Where what way back in the rear where they had plenty of time to train. No in the field. He plays strong emphasis on training in the field. He took every chance to conduct opportunity training with his marines. There were numerous duties required. Corporal gregory squat each day. Corporal gregory assembled the squad and instructed them in a single practical infantry skill. I'm gonna say that again every day. Well they got all these duties. Got all these. These and the reason. I'm saying this. Is we hear this all the time companies. Well we didn't really have time to train. So so guess what. No one has time to train. And if you think this marine corporal in the field has quote time to train you're wrong. So what does he do. Every day he assembles a squad instructs them any single practical infantry skill. How long does that take ten minutes. Five minutes seven minutes while in a patrol base corporal gregory instructed his men in such skills as helicopter. Max close air support and call for fire. Corporal gregory required that his squad members continue their professional development every day after returning from patrols corporal. Gregory squad would work on their marine corps institute correspondence courses. Pfc kirby a member of corporal. Gregory squad finished the marine corps. Nco mci in the field in vietnam in the field. In vietnam corp. Gregory took the initiative to train. His marines in the skills required by his unit's mission and environment. His training exceeded the basic requirements established by the marine corps and created a squad that was particularly well prepared for combat. The corporal used scenario based training to run his men through multiple repetitions of probable combat situations. He made sure that each marine in his squad understood their commander's intent their role in the mission and how each man affected the outcome of events during battle corporal. Gregory is freaking squared away. And by the way everything that i'm saying right now apply it to what you're doing in your company in your business. Think of think of how much you could do to help how much you could do to train your people. Not because you've got two weeks allocated to train your personnel. But because you've got twenty minutes to review with them how product works or how this piece of equipment functions or what to do in an emergency situation or how to handle the client. It was not long before corporal. Gregory's training proved vital on the night of february fourteenth. Nineteen seventy-one corporal. Gregory and his unit came under heavy attack. Corporal gregory was killed yet because the squad was so well trained and understood what it had what had to be done. The squad was able to meet the challenge and skillfully engaged the corporal gregory's exemplary leadership in the weeks prior to the attack at prepared marines. Ford this firefight. The enemy was repulsed and the squad held its position in the morning over thirty dead end. Va were found in the area. Surrounding the squad's position. Every marine in the squad realized that it was corporal gregory's training emphasis that won the battle and saved their lives lessons. Corporal gregory displayed outstanding initiative in training. His marines he assumed the responsibility for preparing his marines for the demands of combat. This training greatly exceeded the established standards of the marine corps. Which by the way are no no low standards and directly contributed to the combat success survival of the unit after corporal gregory's death corp gregory and by the way if they ended up with thirty dead and va over thirty dead nba. That was a big force that attacked his unit. Corporal gregory used whatever time was available to instructors marines and hone their professional skills. This aggressive opportunity tr- opportunity training was necessary because few units could conduct formal training the combat zone. I talked about this on the f. online the other day i absolutely learned more from informal training than i did from formal training during my time in the navy without questions. Not even close. If you wrote a remove all the informal lessons i learned. I would be an idiot. do you find that. The formal training is like kind of sorts itself out to be more valuable early on. Explain so like you know how you have like basic training right as we learn like all the the formal protocols where everyone has to essentially do the same thing under very similar circumstances and then the informal training seems to totally distinct thinking about you and it work. I guess where when you get informal training. That's when you're trained up on all the basics. It's kind of like college in a way you have all these prerequisites like. Hey you guys all got to know this this this this and no it good and then later on and maybe we'll send you out to a specific company or whatever to learn what they do and then you can start to apply these things in specific situations. I think the example to use would be. Let's say you went to some kind of technical school. Like being doctor being a mechanic being a air conditioning repairman You're gonna learn some technical stuff in the classroom but when you really get good. It's doing the job. It's it's someone pulls you aside and says oh. Yeah when you see this. Here's the problem when you when you when you go here. Here's what you need to do when you see this symptom from a patient. Here's what's actually happening. It's all that informal training. That and maybe i'm wrong about doctors because i don't know what medical schools like. I can only imagine that you get a heck of a lot better by once you're in the field and you're surgeries and someone says. Hey here's a better way to. Here's the technique you know something like that. Yeah it's like you know how you i think it was. He was a book your reading longtime ago. Where where they'd have a name shooting might have been would've been one of our guests but they'd have a name for the people who don't do. I think it was in the army Were they don't do it. They just do all the theory and they call them something like nerds or something hoax anyway. But yeah there's a people who know and they sensually. They know what to do. And what the protocols are in a vacuum once you start and when you get out there in the field in the real world kind of thing that informal like nah. This is by the book over here. You got to watch out for this because and there's also a difference between just learning from experience. Which is hey. I did this operation. Here's something mistakes that i made and that's just experience classroom classroom. I'm talking about in between where you're you know. Someone's pulling aside and say hey when you start to see this develop. That's not a good call. Here's a call that would be better to make. And here's why it's not formal training. It's my platoon chief telling me something. It's my my leading petty officer saying. Hey hey new guy. Here's what you need to do when you see that unfolding and you go. Okay roger that. It's not formal training but that's where you learn and it's not just experience either. Experience alone would take you way longer than informal training. Like how many okay did you get through example here. You learn the armlock. Now we're rolling and you try and mock me and i echo if you if you don't squeeze your knees together it's real easy. Get out here. Put your arm boom all. You feel that you're on our. Oh i can't okay. Yeah that's because all because i'm squeezing my knees okay. Info the look. The instructor guaranteed the instructor. Said squeeze your knees. But you need that informal assessment of your actual situation to realize. I see what i need to do. Yeah exactly right. That's exactly what i was thinking too that you did. What was the the i mean. You have to get informal training once you're in the once you're done with the rag. Yeah i think how you described it. The you talked about like being on site or being in the field or doing it like that you talked about even just air conditioner repairman. What that looks like the way you described what life would be like if all we ever did was formal training. You'd have no context for anything. You wouldn't even know how it applies. So i think that's true in certainly my case in aviation. I don't think it's any different like everything is taught by the book. Everything is formal training the beginning. It's all these things and the mini airplane. Get up in the sky and you were feeling things in in a different way. It's really hard to apply them. Because you're you learned it on the ground and the context of the informal. Hey hey listen looked you see that. Yeah that's what it means in the book when it says this. That's what it looks like. Oh man i would never be able to understand it from reading it in a book to you. Have to get a translation. Yeah you do translation. You have to be able to see and feel it for and that will not happen informal training. It's important to realize you have some experience and you have people that are on your team. The amount of knowledge that you can transfer to them is so valuable and the reason. I'm pointing this out is because a lot of times you forget that right. You think you've been doing this for a long time. It's a big deal. Hey this is just what you do you. Don't you forget you forget that you've learned all this but taking that and saying. Hey hey a hey pal come over here. Let me show them. I'm sure this works. I'm sure you'd better way to do that. Let me show you a little trick. It's very powerful not to mention you. Invest in people like that for ten minutes for ten minutes. You helping them. And you're building that relationship which is what this whole thing is that we're talking about. Yeah and i wrote down while you're talking that telling that story of that corporal is i wrote down. I always take notes only doing this. Podcast i just take knows. I can take home and harassed him down and i keep them and i find places where they apply and as you know they apply everywhere and this this idea of this training has people is actually the best thing he can do to take care of them. It's the best thing he can do. Is the thing any leader can do to help them. Not give you a break and give you free. Time and yeah. of course. there's a balance there. But the best thing he could do is prepare them to be in a position. And i think the reason that stuck with me is when we talk about decentralized command which we talk about all the time when business. The scenario that plays out is the reason. Why decentral one of the reasons. Why decentralized command so important is that your people have to know what to do when you're not around it's pretty obvious but the scenarios are usually you're on vacation you're on a different shift you've got the day off not that you're dead so when you kind of think of it in these contexts a of what he was doing is being able to prepare them to be successful that him being around is in the worst possible situation if literally him dying in. That situation is the best thing he can do. The same thing doesn't happen to them is train them. Even if it's five minutes at a time is that's how he kept those guys alive and that is something that you can. You can translate to almost any situation. Your family know we talk about this in the code. The protocol the evaluation. It's like hey what can you do your family. Can you give your family five minutes of training to pass on knowledge that you have more or less than your corporal. Gregory realize that combat is a dynamic environment which takes a heavy toll on leaders within an infantry company. he trained his subordinates. To be able to assume his role this saved the lives of his men during the chaos of battle after his death. The men of corporal gregory squad performed well performed well because they had confidence in their training and in themselves. A confidence that was instilled by corporal. Gregory's leadership you know when we were talking when we talk about competence. How do you get confidence. You confidence to work you confidence by doing something. Get confidence by doing something. Not doing it. Well doing it again doing a little bit better doing it again. Doing it even better. That's where confidence comes from. That's where it should come from otherwise it's false confidence. Maybe i should stop talking. Because the way he that was written was a lot better than the way i said it. Well here's what's really cool. So they have a if we he mentioned he mentioned kirby in this. Pfc kirby a member of the of corporal gregory squad that finished this nco mci in the field. Way of a quote from him not from vietnam from nineteen ninety eight. And now sergeant major are be kirby said the very worst night of my torn vietnam when we were involved in a major firefight and we were losing marines are squad survived as result of the corporate training. We are alive today because of him. Next one corporal of balls british army falklands nineteen eighty two in one thousand nine to argentina invaded the falkland falkland islands in the south pacific south atlantic ocean. The islands have been british territory since british days is as an imperial power. Not willing to give up its territory. Britain sent a task force to the islands in order to reclaim them afternoon. Fabius assault british forces pushed their way across the islands. The second battalion of the parachute regiment known as to para of the british army was ordered to attack the argentinian forces of goose green. It was to be the first pitched battle between british and argentinian forces. The land bridge between goose green and the town of darwin was the only way for forces to move between east falkland island and laugh olivia island if to para could not break through to goose green the british would have to spend valuable time mounting another amphibious assault of the falkland islands. Corporal balls was a section leader equivalent to a squad leader in a company to a company's mission was to attack along the battalion's eastern flank and assault. The town of darwin on the night of twenty seven may nineteen eighty. Two two attacked goose green. The argentinians were well prepared for the attack and the paratroopers could advance only yards at a time as the sun rose. The battalion was left. In a precarious position to para was stalled. Pinned down in the open by argentinian. Mortar and machine gunfire a company was trapped in crossfire between the argentinians on goose green and those in darwin. This is a nightmare scenario. You're you're in a crossfire. Receiving both mortar and machine gun fire realizing that the trap can only be broken by persistent aggressive action. Corporal balls decided to continue to lead his squad in assaulting enemy positions seeking to break the deadlock. Hit himself the commanding officer of two para charged a machine gun nest and shot dead. The commander of a company kept the event. Quiet not wanting to demoralized the troops whose predicament seemed to worsen at this critical point in the attack at that moment corp. balls led an assault upon an argentinian position. He decided to fire a sixty six. Millimeter shoulder launched anti tank rocket into the bunker. The penetration of this rocket caused such a magnificent explosion which was followed by silence. The first flags of surrendered then began to surface from the argentinian positions. The argentinians had been demoralized by the utter destruction of this single bunker and the ruthlessness of corporal balls resolve. This allowed a company to turn its full attention toward goose. Green momentum gathered behind the british attack in the next twenty four hours to pair opened the route to levonia island. corporal balls persistent aggressiveness. Had broken the will of the defenders this action proved to be pivotal pivotal in companies attacked to para two pairs victory at goose green assured a british victory for the falkland campaign lessons. Corporal ball squad level action effectively turned the tide of the battle at goose green. This zig of how aggressive tactical action can have effects out of all proportion to the size of the action. His command decisions fully supported both company and battalion. Commanders intent his spectacular assault of that particular bunker affected the morale of both sides crush. The spirit of the argentineans aunt passed the initiative and momentum to british forces and proved to be the action needed to continue the british advance after this action. Argentinian soldiers began to surrender rather than die in combat person. A corporal makes a one move and it changes the the the tide of this battle by the way moments after. His commanding officer was killed heroically assaulting a machine gun nest corporal balls courage leadership and determination propelled him to persevere and achieve decisive results in extricating his unit from a desperate situation when all else fails perseverance prevails. And if you want more on the falkland islands part eighty excursion to hell sergeant david c freeman. Us army vietnam nineteen sixty six during operation crazy horse and pay attention to that name operation crazy horse. We're going to go deep in the vin fan valley in june of nineteen sixty six. A company of mountain yard troops led by special forces advisers landed it l z monkey for a search and destroy mission. Sergeant freeman a member of the command. Element was the fourth senior man. In the unit soon after landing the company attacked secured a bunker complex. The company suffered some casualties in a helicopter. Medevac was requested. The company moved back to l. z. Monkey with their wounded at the l z. The company began receiving heavy small arms. Fire the command element around sergeant. Friedman was devastated. The situation demanded rapid action. Sergeant freedman grabbed a radio and took command of the company. He called in helicopter. Gunships coordinated supporting arms and reorganized his defenses. The helicopter pilots flying above the battle were amazed at his coolness under fire under sergeant freeman's competent command. The perimeter held all-night and the enemy eventually withdrew stepping up lessons. Sergeant freeman a well-trained. Nco was prepared to lead his company combat. He knew the techniques and procedures for air support supporting arms mac and company defensive positions. And do they kind of rattled off and and one thing that the record has really good in this manual. Is they hit on the fact that you got to have the skills you gotta have these fundamental skills of combat leadership the technical and tactical skills of combat leadership meeting how to call for air support how to call for supporting arms. How to call for artillery. How to call for medevac. These are technical skills that you have to have and they reinforce that throughout this book so if you're in a leadership position you think well. I'm not going to have to do that. No actually you better you better you better go and dig in and figure out how to do these things. In addition to his technical knowledge he was able to match these abilities with strong leadership and cool competence in the face of disaster because of his experience situational awareness. Sergeant freeman knew that rapid action was required once again. What do we see. We see someone. Let's taking action. He immediately took control a situation making decisions and issuing orders and extricated his company from a perilous situation. And here's a little claus wits war which we haven't covered yet a sort of one of those ones i. Is it like a not playing the obvious one you know. Have you haven't done that one yet. The end for which a soldier is recruited armed and trained the whole object of his sleeping eating drinking and marching is simply that he should fight at the right place at the right time. Check all right now. Here we go here. We go so this section. I'm about to read actually came earlier in the manual. And i pulled it out and put it at the end this of the last one of these examples and and there's a reason why it immediately struck me when i saw it so the title of this section is just sergeant first class. Us army vietnam nineteen sixty six so soon as i read that i was kind of surprised because all the other ones to give the person's name something and why why. Why aren't they saying this guy's name is a top secret mission. Well no this is nineteen ninety eight. There was no no more secret missions. So why aren't we explaining. This becomes obvious when i read it. Why they just called this individual sergeant first class so here we go in may of nineteen sixty six c company of first battalion. Twelfth cavalry first cavalry. Division established a mortar fire base at chelsea hertford in the valley. So this is actually part of an get into this. This is part of that earlier. Operation that we mentioned the position was one hundred and fifty meters long and forty meters wide. The upper slope was covered in six foot. High elephant grass. The mortar section was led by a sergeant first class. No name given his position lay on a hill which had previously been occupied by viet cong. Guerrillas he formed his men in a week perimeter. Were not off to a good start arranged in a u shape with the curve facing uphill and set up the mortars in order to provide support for the company the main body of the company went off to patrol the valley below leaving the twenty two man mortar section to defend their own position. The men fired off a few rounds to seat their base plates. The sergeant decided to give the men a break. It did not order anyone to dig in or examine the area around the perimeter. No security patrols were sent out. The men lounged eight c. rations and walked around in the open in the jungle heat. It seemed like a day at the beach at thirteen thirty. An enemy machine gun opened up at a range of fifty meters from the elephant grass uphill of the mortar position. A two hundred man unit of v. C. had been waiting to ambush the tax mortar unit. Machine gun fire was followed by rifle fire and grenade attacks the rest of the company which had gone down the hill on patrol. The rest of the company took thirty five minutes to rush back to the devastated mortar position. The enemy had withdrawn and left only a handful of dazed survivors. The failure of the sergeant to properly lead is unit enforce security measures or prepare for enemy. Contact led directly to disaster with its support element eliminated the company was not able to establish its patrol mission which in turn negatively affected the battalion's mission in the vin valley. So i read data. And of course i think about what does this mean. And they hadn't given away any names right so they didn't get this guys name but they had given away a date may of nineteen sixty six. They'd given away the elle's e l z hefford. So i started to do some research and it turns out that this battle this specific battle was written about in a book on vietnam called battles in the monsoon and russa's an out of print book. But i was really curious what happened. What happened so i found this out of print book ordered it and the book battles in the monsoon is a book full of basically a bunch of short little stories and this particular story. This particular section in this book about this battle is called men facing death. So let's hear a little bit more detail about this situation by the way. This is all operation crazy horse by the night of twenty one. May the battle of vin fan valley appeared to be slowing to a stop with the enemy. Fractional is everyone running for cover l. Landing zone hertford that well-worked over slope where the initial explosion has occurred had occurred and i'm skipping to this specific. They give a little bit of background. This l z hertford had been used a bunch a look like one of the safest places in the fire zone. Such had been the constant the consistency of arm traffic in and out of it. So this was a l z. That was getting used all the time that was about how colonel john j hennessy thought of it. When he decided on a special mission for charlie company i of the twelfth for the following morning it was a courteous gesture. The main object. Being to return charlie company to its parent battalion but before doing so. He planned to ask a small favor in return. The company under captain f warren a taciturn georgian same unit since winning his gold bars in nineteen sixty. One guy's been in the same since for five straight years. He was on the perimeter in hill on hill. Seven sixty six several ridges beyond hertford. The airline distance was about three thousand meters. Hennessy directed warren to sweep back over the high ground to hertford after sunup on worried about that passage. He was most concerned that charlie company should reconnoiter the lower slopes beyond the landing zone which thus far no one had prowled that task done it could rejoin the battalion in the valley. Not far away. Hennessy had no reason to be suspicious. He was merely being cautious. The ground around hertford had not been worked over carefully for several days. Captain jack cummings. An alpha company were in perimeter on the landing zone at the same hour. They were not left holy. They were left. They were not left wholly undisturbed but the occasional sniper rounds and grenades than innocuously bitten to their ground where attributed enemy stragglers so. There's a company. They're they're getting hit occasionally. But there's just some stragglers what assuming alpha company needed to be back. So they send in. Charlie company word of that was a foot and that reached major charles siler at the on at on. Shortly after hennessy gave his order the divisions public information officer was entertaining a visitor and a weighing problem. All his own belatedly drawn by the news. That operation crazy horse was racking up a score. War correspondent sam casten. A thirty two year old singer editor of look magazine had just arrived in camp pursuing a theme worthy of hemingway cast was the only correspondent drawn to the battle. He said to siler. I wish to know the faults of men facing deaf. This war correspondent says kasinga siler voiced an honest doubt that the quest was logical men's fears and reflections not being all of one kind and the soldier hardly knowing how he thinks about death until he feels he is dying. It is just not the subject that makes for easy talk among combat men. That kind of weird right. We got this this reporter saying hey i want to go get men facing death. At the time. General norton had put the on cape position on semi alert and the whole camp was a stir. Siler and staff were in the bunkers around the press. Camp realigning some of the sandbags. You don't have to worry about this ground tonight said casten. I'm the luckiest reporter alive. Wherever i go nothing happens so even this guy who's looking for problems he he's got that attitude where i'm gonna go look for problems. I'm not gonna find silo remembered. The words thinking them slightly ironic in view of what castro was looking for. This guy wants to go find people facing death but then he says. I don't worry about there being any problems because i'm so lucky that nothing's going to happen is a big hill. Not far from here where a lot of men have died in the last few days. He said that i want to get up there. First thing in the morning said casten and by the way i intend to fall subject all the way through see the coffins in which he plays the bodies. We put them in rubber bags. Said siler grumbly hoping to close. The conversation podcasting continued to fret about getting up to aford soon after dawn. Siler broke off work to arrange for cast in certain departure. These were the circumstances which resulted in cast being delivered to hertford by the same helicopter. That carried ammunition coffee and hot breakfast comings and alpha company. His first hours were unrewarding that the unit was too busy stacking supply equipment for an early getaway to talk with casting about deaf besides the morning disarmingly fair and quiet warren and charlie company. I'm charlie company. Meanwhile were beating their way along the ridge on the way back from hill seven sixty six having broken camp at ten hundred fairly wide trail runs from the top of the scarf the entire distance so fast forward a little bit alpha company was lifted from l z hertford. When charlie company arrived at high noon cast in state on the landing zone warrant talked. Briefly to lieutenant colonel rough rough rutland p beard junior the battalion commander and his s three major role. It was arranged that warren and the main body of the company would continue their stroll downslope through the trees and across the river. Now i just want to call out these words. It was arranged. Because we're going to get some more information so you've got the you've got the battalion commander talking to the company commander and they come to. This is what it says. It was arranged that warren. And maybe the company would continue through the stroll through the downslope through the trees across the river. The mortar would remain on hair referred to cover its further advance with with fire from the eighty one. Millimeter tube so now you can see where we're going the sergeant first class of the mortar platoon that we talked about from the squad. Leader makes a difference. This is the guy this is the guy. The platoon twenty two strong was led by sergeant robert l. Kirby a twenty. Nine year old negro from los angeles slight of frame solemn faced kirby is rated one of the starkest hearted fighters in his brigade. So that's a little different right now. We're now we're calling this guy. One of the stout stout est fighters in the brigade but in this in the in the reflections from the manual. He's not going to do a good job. And by the way is gonna get left with twenty two people in a mortar platoon. Which is again. We'll we'll dive more to that. Few numbers his men seeming seemed sufficiently armed each carried three hundred rounds for their m16's and from two or four from two to four hand grenades. The one heavy weapon was the eighty one millimeter mortar. For which kirby had only eighteen routes that with the tube was as much weight as the men could carry so sufficiently armed is an interesting way of saying it because we know that an m16. With three hundred rounds. And i'm sixteen is fine mortars fine but if you get into a legitimate gunfight. There's something that you need called a machine gun and you need a few of them and they don't have any not good. Moreover it had been agreed that as promptly as the descending company pass beyond the range of the platoon that the platoon to be lifted out by chopper africa company had one hundred or so mortar rounds behind kirby wreck and he would not need them in the the reporter had decided to stay on hertford instead of moving with the company called an interesting decision. As interesting to see. Because if you'd think if you're looking for to get in the fight you would. Oh they're going to go. I'm sitting on this kind of elle's e we're kind of it's almost like a little bit secure and these guys going to troll. I would probably think. I've dawn patrol casten for whatever reason he says he decides to stay up there on hertford. And it's kirby the sergeant who says it will happen here if anywhere a note. Sorry that's cast in that says to curb it will happen here if anywhere like the wording in common kirby says about that you're dead wrong and he honestly felt that way though as he looked about what he saw his position hardly worded such assurance it was all wrong from any reason to tactical view. So now this is kirby he. He's looking at the situation even though he says he is not going to happen here. He knows it's all wrong. From a tactical perspective. The landing zone of hertford was by then a burned off trampled in rumble rubble-strewn about the size of professional basketball court. Running lengthwise down the edge of ridge it scorched earth and grasses were less apparent than the foxholes distributed more or less evenly around the oval shape perimeter originally these had been enemy spider holes and were subsequently enlarged by american occupancy. Trouble was that kirby did not have enough men to round out his holding so the position became a you pointed. A you pointed up upslope and again this is that you can see the similarity here from from the manual. The uphill open end fronting toward the high ground was not covered by weapons. President since the platoon was citing its pieces downslope. The company having gone that way and weapons so they have a you shape and they're like well. The platoon went that way. So we don't really need to have much there and that's where he decided to light and not any any protection in that direction in either direction was. The prospect of a fight was a prospect good. If a fight was to be forthcoming there was beauty. every but there beauty everywhere for to sue the i. Upslope and bordering the very edge of the defended ground was a sea of elephant grass standing six to eight feet tall downhill. There was a sheer and rocky precipice extending thirty feet and giving away to an extension in the field of tall grasses which also invested the flanks greenness was all about except where the men look to their weapons. The company took off down so now here goes the company. The company took off down the steep clutching to the rocks creepers and creepers for balance. No prep no preparatory artillery fires or airstrikes have been put on the slopes round hertford because of warren's movement the earlier presence of alpha company and the all round feeling that crazy horse operation was slowing to hope. This operation been going on for a pretty long period of time. There's been all kinds of activity. They didn't feel like they needed to do any preparatory fire for this patrol. Kirby worried less about his platoon than about the movements. And enterprise of casten the reporter. The men had gone to ground. The correspondent was moving from position to position standing. Erect taking photographs and asking numerous questions. One to protect casten. He did not know how to object his freewheeling. Though he realized that his movements were describing the limitations of the force in fact these things little mattered cast was enjoying himself hugely. He asked her be. How do you. How do you feel about these things. Kirby answered if you think you're going to get a story out of this platoon you're wrong. Nothing will happen here. Cast and continued with his rounds of the perimeter snapping pictures and asking the men. How do you feel kirby lost interest and cast and kept moving. The position of the mortar of one. Mortar was near the bottom of the slope. L z just inside. The you were the crude dug a little pit at approximately thirteen hundred soon began supporting the descending company with the fire of the eighty one millimeter mortar. The range eight hundred meters. It takes a while to hack through the jungle. Captain warn got kirby on the radio and told him. Bring it closer which kirby tried to do. So now you've got the tunes up. They're they're they're dropping mortars in front of the platoon. That's driving through a jungle. An hour later worn called kirby again. This time the was an uplift said. Warren choppers are incoming to take you out within thirty minutes. So there are just about done so just to recap. You've got the platoon. You've got mortar platoon in this landing zone you've got the rest of the company pushed down the hill and they're just on a patrol and eventually you're so far away that there's no point in the mortar being up there anymore so now helicopters are gonna come grab them and take out thirty minutes. That was what warren. And kirby both fought but the choppers had put down at landing zone. Savoy hennessy's command post in the valley just to make certain orders that the orders given still stood from their delay. Holy unfaltering came rocking general. Jack norton rocking the high command rocking us. All kirby got off his seventeenth mortar round in support of the advancing company that being the last one fiery remember that eighteen rounds. He just fired his seventeenth round. Then the thing happened. There was no advance warning. Sergeant lewis buckley and pfc wade taste. We're still collecting the company water cans and other materiel for the flight moving carelessly in the open even as was correspondent. Casten the other men including kirby stayed put in their foxholes that they did so as a sign of their alertness than of their forthcoming operational routine. Once lodged in position they had not moved to scout its surroundings. The long trek via the jungle trail half had them half brushed. So they're tired. Over much of the distance they had to move they were crouching because the tiny overhang there was no shade where they were sprawled to sun directly down on them and it was not less than one hundred degrees. The word was passed from hold a whole that they were returning to home base. Nothing much else. Not even the eccentric movements and questions of cast and interested them. The our must have been about thirteen thirty from upslope and from not more than fifty yards away. Came a came the fire of heavy machine-gun. It's bullet stream was dead on the mortar. The first rounds ripping through the tube as if the weapon had already been zeroed in thereafter. It'd be directly on the mortar. Put pit with never a pause so first warning that he was engaged he yelled out fire but it was superfluous though. He did not know it being too close to the mortar. A split second. Before kirby had reacted his own men had started the fight on the left of the inverted. You would have been the right. Flank had these men facing uphill wants. The fire was specs. For paul j harrison and charles stocky had seen three enemy skirmish irs moving in through the elephant grass not five meters beyond their foxholes their m16's. I'm sixteen fire signal detection of movement to which the enemy machine gun instantly responded swiftly. Those three weapons spoke from the elephant grass on three sides the perimeter rifle fire cracked. And kirby sense that his position was almost totally enveloped so he gets the feeling that we're surrounded. He yelled to his radio man. Spec for john f. sprint call company get them back where being hit as the message was related to captain warren and as he remembered it the words were comeback. We're being hit. Though the main body moving through the jungle was too far down the slope to get the sounds of the fight. Warren had his movement of agony at his moment of agonized shock. And that's an interesting tidbit moment of agonized shock. Almost as if he may have expected that this would happen. He knew kirby as a thoroughly brave soldier. And this is the unnamed person from from the manual to steady two seasons to be stampeded by a little random fire when he called for help. The thing had to be fully desperate. The confidence between the white captain from georgia and the negro sergeant from california was complete so these guys had trust wasting not an instant. Warren called back on the radio. Two attended robert maclellan of first platoon bringing up the rear of the far stretch com. Get your ass back up. That hill all hands reversed and started scrambling upward men clutching it rocks tearing tearing their palms on foreign vines sliding falling and panting and desperate effort to race up. The steep all did not fully understand the reason why there was no attempt to observe security and had they been without knowing moving into an ambush the disaster that too soon followed could have been even greater far above them on the slope of fairford men who still move crouched below to escape the sheet of fire beating from all sides. Most of kirby's men at died in the first ten minutes though he did not know that yet. The return fire from his people grew steadily fainter. Sergeant isaac johnson twenty seven year old negro had been sitting with a plat board at the mortar pit when the fight began. He heard someone yell. They're coming out of the woods in his agitation. He tried to turn the mortar round a fired up hill. Not even noticing that he'd been drilled through the incoming fire was too great and his strength too little so he slithered up on his belly to the left flank and dropped into a foxhole. Upslope could see forty to fifty men at a run out of the trees into the elephant grass where he lost sight of them. They were partially camouflaged in their shirts. Were of all colors. Looking down how hill he saw many more of the enemy moving through the grass some crawling others hunched over firing as they moved in it came to him as a sudden idea that he should fire to. He thought he he thought as he fired he had dropped at least four enemy skirmishes with m16 so by the way. I mean we're already talking about a totally outnumbered force this were in one flank. He sees forty or fifty bad guys from the next fox hole above him. Pfc henry benton and joe l. tamayo were alternate firing upslope and downhill yelling as they pulled the trigger. Johnson saw his last of them when he ran out of ammunition crawled back to the mortar pit in search of a magazine inside the pit. There were four men heads down the enemy machine gun and at least two automatic rifles were bearing directly on the whole and smashing its rim. Johnson could not be sure whether the men were ducking or dead. Sergeant buckle paul buckle twenty. Two years in the army was having his first. Go in combat. The opening barrage cracked him wide open. He bolted straight across the perimeter vanished into the elephant grass and was never heard from again. Sergeant johnson couldn't find his spare magazine. So we picked up an m16 with fifteen rounds in it from the dead hand of sergeant edward shepherd who had no business being there that afternoon though he ranked kirby and might have taken command. He was overdue to be lifted out by chopper appearance before a promotion board so he passed up the honor and died inconspicuously from a bullet through his brain. Another longtime soldier under fire for the first time he had stayed motionless petrified by personal terror as boundless as the horror exploding all about him his fifteen bullets gone. Johnson crawled toward the mortar pit screaming. Come out you'll all be killed. There was no response. It was minutes too late for that. The whole held for corpses heads bashed in by bullet fire in the nearby hole with kirby was another bloody welter a rocket. The russian-made p forty around of so slow of motion at the i. Easily falls the trajectory came in dead center of the mark kirby saw in flight and yelled watch out so did his foxhole mates specked for austin l. drummond and david s crocker who cried warning in the same sex split second before any man could move. The rocket exploded just the left of the whole crocker died instantly from a shard that crushed his skull. Drummond took heavy fragments and left arm and left egg leg such gallons of blood spouted from him. That kirby who had taken four pieces of steel in his head but remain conscious knew. That drum couldn't lot could not last long in physical torment drum and tried to rise. Kirby pulled it him drummond screamed. Let me go. I'm hurting hurting. Kirby pulled him down within a minute. He died under kirby's body blood from kirby's pate with streaming into his eyes but the little sergeant could still see an think he yelled to his artemio. Spec four sprinter call company say on being hit by mortars and rockets. We gotta have gun ships and arty speranza did his part captain. Warren struggling uphill remembered this piece of the message coming in we're hit by rockets. And mortars he later could later he could not recall that spreads had also asked gunfire and air artillery. but anyhow he related that message to the command capsule at l. z savoie and spreads. Got the word back from him. It's on the way those final words right then. Communication between the company and platoon ended. Both radios worked. The mass of the ridge knows intervened. And what they mean by. That is these. Fm radios that. They're using they work when you can see them. So they work a line of sight while we call site but if there's a a ridge line in between you don't work so whatever. The terrain was kind of dipped down the terrain. And all of a sudden they lost communications at that moment the frontman in warren's warns column or halfway back to her the break off doubled warns anxiety though. He was already doing everything possible he had asked that artillery replaced on the slopes alongside the perimeter. Not on hertford itself for kirby had passed on nothing about casualties and warn was still thinking of twenty two men holding the contested ground. The double time climb had begun to slow from sheer exhaustion. Men stumbled dropped in their tracks. Were pulled the defeat by their mates and reeled upwards again worn realize now that if he continued the pressure the company would not would reach the scene of the fight. Dead be about that. He no longer gave a damn yet. Passing information on the radio is so freaking important end so hard but if you always think that you're trying to paint a picture for the person on the other end you've got to think that way they don't know what's happening and you know if you've got casualties and if you can give any additional information now look i mean. Obviously these guys are in such a horrible way. But that's what's happening. that's what's happening. He's he doesn't know that anyone has been wounded. He's not anyone's been killed. He thinks that they're in that position. And he's saying hey start to put artillery on the on the outskirts of l. z. The sounds of the struggle had not carried to l z savoie in the distant valley. Bottom control point was throb partly because of warrants call for help still more because the monitoring of the conversations between eye-witnesses who were viewing the fight from platforms directly overhead. What they saw and what they said. Inouye lessened the confusions colonel beer so this is the interesting thing about vietnam. Is that a lot of times. It would be aircraft because they had air superiority for the most part. And so there'll be helicopters that would just get up. Cnc helicopters command control helicopters. I would just get up and fly around and be watching this stuff. I have a friend whose dad was in vietnam and he he was a silver star recipient and the whole thing was photographed. This whole event. You know there was a gunfight broke out his dad sort of jumped into a daikin then crawled along and flank the enemy and the had pictures. The whole thing is but that. But that tells you what it's like got to look. I got all sorts of things going on in my head right now. This is a brutal scene that you're reading this. This whole thing is playing out and you're describing these different things as brutal parcel because we already know. We know the outcome. And that you're describing this little pieces but when you're talking about the the inability for the i think it's the company commander a that's a warrant warren's trying to visualize it was going on with with kirby in his in his platoon when you when he was a leader. Get something in your head when you've got to create what you think. Is the outcome when you when you when you get comfortable with what you think you know the outcome the situation is and you sort of solidify that. It's really hard to change that. So if i- i- picture this guy leaving and there's some there's this complacency slipped into all these comments that you've you've read through these little pieces of complacency of. Yeah it's not going to happen. Yeah i know what's going on. This is my best guy or or all those little pieces are helping. This guy warned solidify in his mind. What he thinks is is going on. And it's impossible for him and the part that i'm connected to on my mind is how hard it is to for him to visualize things are nowhere near what you think they are. And he can't get in his head that this whole thing has been wiped out his best guys getting overrun. And when you in your own mind predetermined the way the outcome's gonna be it makes you so much less flexible and adaptable and incapable of maneuvering the way you need to. And you know it's all. In retrospect i'm just thinking to myself. Don't presume how this is gonna go. It's one of the worst things you can do. And you can. You can almost hear this guy's brain struggling to accept what's going on so it's interesting that you bring that up and as we start to hear more sides of this story you got this guy warren. Who's he doesn't really know. He knows that his guy is a good guy and he's calling for help and it says that's enough for him to realize that there's something really really bad but there's a panic. There's a panic of hey like you know if if you call me and dave you're on on the job need support right now i'd be like okay. Hey guys listen to start taking the they almost immediately go into you know. Go get your ass back of. He's literally says. Get your ass back up the hill now. So there's a level of. Let's say urgency that he gets to almost immediately and as we peel this onion back. You're gonna see that you're right but the picture that he's painted is what's happening. He knew something was going to go wrong. And as soon as it starts to happen he's could get back up there because he didn't feel comfortable with it. It's like you said it's just freaking awful. Yeah back to the book. Colonel beard the battalion commander major role his s three and captain robert offer artillery liaison at the brigade c p when the news came in they often huey to view the fight from above it is worth would get on the ground. Just kind of fyi disturbed knows hackworth. Getting how many land when it made sense. Obviously yeah before they could reach the scene out of sheer happenstance major auto cantrell the battalion executive officer of one twelve was already hovering above it. He'd been flying in the area. He'd arrived at the opposite peak when he heard warren's voice in the earphones saying that a platoon was being overrun on here for it so so warren did know that the balloons being overrun at this point. So he flew to station directly above and began orbiting. Low enough to see people milling around and firing on the ground below him. Cantrell was yet to high to determine whether they were friend or enemy tenant william de fastened in an artillery observer in another h. Thirteen had flown the same way and was circling near cantrell. He asked cantrell sirkin. Upbringing and fire catch replied. No i can't tell where are people aren't cantrell then flew lower and at at about that time beard the battalion commander and his party arrived. They could see forty or more men pressing close to the perimeter they must be called beard either that replied cantrell or gi's with uniforms soaking wet. So this is a. I know it seems crazy to think that you couldn't tell the difference between american soldiers and vietcong. I'll tell you when you're in a helicopter. New look at things on the ground. It is not obvious. No obvious you don't need to be miles away. You can get fifty sixty seventy feet away and things get real. It's really hard to tell what's going on. I i was. I learned this. I was up at fallon. And we were calling in helicopters to pick us up. And i'm sitting there. I'm standing. The terrain in fallon nevada is not. There's no trees just dirt and we're standing there and how. I'm sitting there looking at the helicopter. It's it's the wind is hitting. That's how close it is. And they can't see me. And i i was just like what do you mean. You can't see them waving their like who coming around. We'll come back around with. We can't and so i had to get out the red small orange. The orange smoke. Whatever help here. We are violet. Smoke read smokers. Emergency orange panel some signal. Yeah well i think. I tried an orange pear orange panel. You know it wasn't big enough. So that's where these guys wrath back to the book his his words merely aggravated doubts. All around cantrell trouble was that he simply could not make himself believe that one whole american platoon had been wiped out there and he was right now. This is where what you were talking about. You have this idea. How could a hold. American platoon get wiped out and it says in the book your there in he was right and it is right. Why when we'll get to this later. This american platoon with twenty two guys is not a platoon right. That's not a platoon. You think of tune you think of multiple machine gunners you think a forty guys then he dropped to one hundred feet for one swift pass the phenomenon. Those few seconds doubled his perplexity on the ridgecrest above hertford. He saw company of men in dark suits marching to marquis marching to the to the fire. Shellfire was breaking into the landing zone. Cantrell had no way of knowing that these were enemy rocket rounds not american rounds coming from other basis. The dark suited men upslope identified as enemy. He knew that he knew that. Camouflage rig which from a distance made made them to him look like so many turtles but where were the americans if not on hertford just any heard a friendly voice on. Fm radio please please. You must hurry spans getting off his last message but cantrell had no way of knowing that either beard viewing from the same height was for a moment equally in the dark from the start of the fight with good reason. Kirby forgotten cast in the correspondent. He remembered only when cast in sleet into his position to ask. When are we going to get the hell out of here. Kirby didn't answer then cast and said i've got to have a weapon and kirby silently handed him his own three hundred fifty seven magnum quiet. Now he briefly fitted into the whole beside kirby he spoke only wants to say. Sergeant shepherd is dead so now cast in the reporter is in the foxhole. And he's got three fifty seven magnum. All curiosity about the faults of men facing death was gone from cast and he had been eagerly questioning shepherd when the first shots were fired. That the that soldier swift moral collapse in sudden death where his first shot contact with the realities which mocked his quest. While castings opening words to kirby rankled. They also rang a bell. Almost anywhere seem to be better than the exposed ground to which survivors clutched now under a dust. Paul kicked up by the grazing fire. The fight had been going somewhere between twenty and twenty five minutes. And the fire was fastly becoming wholly one-sided next to kirby's position the enemy skirmishes crawling through the elephant grass. Were not more than fifteen feet away. The fire build up suggested they were bunching. Probably for a rush. Kirby saw them fleetingly in vaguely as through a haze the flash of an arm of the bobbing of ahead head. Kirby got off hand grenades in that direction as rapidly as he could throw. The explosion seemed to damp the close up fire but not for more than sixty seconds in this moment of decision. Kirby did not doubt that the ring had been closed and that all the skirmishes waited on the lower slope amid the tall elephant grass between him and the company poised for the kill. So he's sitting there thinking. okay. We're surrounded. And i know the company's down the hill but there's there's bad guys in between us still. He yelled out. Let's make with that. He rolled out of his whole down. The slope cast in jumped from the whole just ahead of him and was running upright and in the clear. Pfc bob tastes and spec for av spikes from fox hole. Above kirby went past kirby one rolling the other sprinting. Then speranza dashed by him as he rolled. Kirby thought he glimpsed isaac johnson off to his left firing to m16's he was wrong about that. Johnson had heard someone not quite echoing. Kirby shout move down the hill. His own weapon was empty. Pause briefly to pick up another owned defined it in like condition kirby had seen him in that fleeting second when he clutched to useless pieces before throwing them. Both aside. johnson's face was already a bloody mask. From three superficial grenade wounds such was his tension he knew the heard the blast of the grenade nor knew that he had been hurt now in panicked because he was unarmed. He made a running dive at the rocky embankment. Giving him getting him off. Hertford lowers side then. He rolled on and on downslope till his body could take no more beating in that spinning descent. He covered one hundred and fifty meters of rock strewn trail when and where he stopped. They twisting v-shaped in the ridgeback gave off to the left along. This slit the trickle. The stream no water than the palm of johnson's hand. He crawled into the bed of it. Twenty yards or so to where the jungle growth stopped him then. He gathered bushes and vines down around him and lay his face flat in the water. So he's hiding dove off. A free cliff fell down one hundred and fifty meters. And now he's hiding this little ravine not too far above. The ordeal of the few survivors continue to grow. Worse of this johnson felt and remembered. Nothing fought paralyzed by the grip of exhaustion. He had closed his mind to the sounds getting out separately. Some running others rolling. Kirby's men had stayed that way during the first few yards of flight through the short grass just off the l z coming to the rocky steep they began to converge toward the center whence the trail ran downhill. It is always so with men against fire. Fear and herd instinct brings them together. Which is the worst. Which is the worst thing that can happen since it just shapes up. A broad target sprint was the first to get it as they approached the steep. Kirby still rolling others crawling casting standing on. Hit spreads yelled and screamed like a panther three bullets one in each leg in one in the head but marvelously he still lived and now he was erect and walking cast in the reporter yelled back. Hell everybody's hit. That was news to the others. Cast into taking a bullet in one arm and several grenade rags in the back saying nothing in his last moments. The correspondent had the courage of a lion. Here was a man and they knew it spikes yelled. i'm hit. It was a bullet through the right arm. They then moved thousand feet down the rock bank when spreads a yell begin. Hold it up there in front of us expecting would come. Kirby froze right where he was cast and kept moving and long strides straight to the trail which led downhill from the elephant grass. He had made up his mind. Kirby did not bother to shout. A warning standing clear on the on. The trail was an enemy shoulder. Soldier rifle aimed kirby heard a scream as cast in went down. Low caste fifteen yards from him he could not see the fall as the body was invalid by the sea of grass. He heard the whack of the bullet and the thump of the body. The bullhead drilled casten through his left temple. Cast personal effect were looted as soon after he fell the camera. Films and purse were later recovered from the bodies of the enemy in the fight that soon followed many of the next of kin get not even that grain of comfort is an agonizing matter for the commanders. Having to explain why. The dead soldiers most prized possessions and pictures cannot be returned kirby could now hear enemy soldiers moving up slope towards him. There chattering the clang of metal from their weapons. Being worked he was down on his haunches. And so we're spreads us spikes and taste. None was firing their only thought was hide in the grass which rose two feet taller than a standing man. They all new taste was slowly. Dying two bullets in his neck multiple mortar shards in his back though conscious he made no complaint only asking for water of which there was none. The skirmish irs were moving up now in beating the grass on both sides of them. Kirby saw seven of them coming right towards him not ten feet away and he knew he was discovered. He's still held. An m seventy nine grenade launcher. So did spikes they fired right together and the blast killed five of the enemy. The other two crawled away leaving blood trails. Another skirmish closed in from the left spring. The ground between them with automatic pistol kirby at his m seventy-nine crooked his arm. He had just taken another bullet through the right wrist and was feeling the wound the skirmish came on and look through the grass straight at them spikes fired. His m seventy nine. The rain was so short that the grenade didn't arm but the sheer velocity. If blue the man's head off had an armed it would have likely killed both spikes and kirby a second. Vc closed in from the left only to turn his back as he almost stumbled over them. Curb killed him at a range of five feet together to more groups closed in on them from the right and left. Kirby took two hand grenades from sprinter who by now was holy down and throwing them in both directions with his wounded arm. He drove them off. He had no impression of how many he killed or whether he had even scored a hit. He simply knew that they had faded back. Easing the immediate pressure momentarily. While this deadly hide and seek game went on downslope hefford elza was being pounded by one. Oh five and one fifty five millimeter howitzers from the valley basis kernel bearded called for it from his perch aloft and still earlier when early when worn asked for it whether it might have been brought in sooner and done any good is an open question. There was no right moment for its use until the americans and cleared away which movement could only be guessed that now it'd common the perimeter was being cratered. One of the effects was to drive more of the enemy to the grass field. Lower down where kirby and his mates crouched. The game was still on from downslope. A machine gun opened fire and skied the grass beside them. Kirby went flat in the nick of time in the bullets. Zing directly over his head. Spikes didn't make it. One burst caught him in the head. The sound was enough kirby two feet from didn't have to look to know he was dead and he did not wish to look. Kirby crawled downslope about ten feet. Now looking for a weapon thinking that the enemy might have dropped one no luck. He was wholly out of ammunition and had no arm left but a flare pistol so we lay flat on his back wondering what to do. Another skirmish took came back. Came up part of the grass and look directly down on him. Kirby rolled over on his side in the same motion fired flare pistol upward the round smashed into the glaring face not three feet above him getting right between the eyes. The body was spun completely over by the blast with the figure kicking. Kirby did not wait to see more than that. He crawled back the way he had come to get spreads out the impulse was that if he had to die he would rather not be alone. Both men were silent now. There was nothing to say about. Run out they thought they were the only survivors. Though this they were slightly wrong. Johnson was still face down in his private cleft specked. For charles stuck who swift reaction had started. The fight had moved obliquely to the others getting away from the perimeter hidden in the tall grass alongside the knob. He had rare fortune until the final minutes. He came under a grenade shower. The last of the survivors to get hit directly towards kirby and spreads another enemy group. Move down the slope. Kirby didn't wait for them. Having nothing to fire he crawled upward through the elephant. Grass leaving spreads and passing the skirmishes undetected. They fairly stumbled across speranza. He played dead his head being gory from a bullet that had entered his left ear and emerged through his nose. It is less remarkable that the deception worked the then. He stayed conscious and was capable fought. They rolled them over searched. His pockets took his wallet hyphen cigarettes and continued on having gone inert spans. Stayed that way. Kirby had no sense of the barrage of hertford. Though the fire had been going on all ten minutes now as he crawled upward he heard at last heard the explosions and knew what they were. That determined him he would crawl to the fire and try and hug it to thoughts on his mind. Charlie will get as far away from this as possible and if he had to die. That was still the preferable risk halfway back to the perimeter. His ear told him that. The shelling suddenly ceased not knowing what that meant he's still crawled on. It was a tortured. Most labor movement as his last reserve of will and strength was draining away. He got within six feet of the first foxhole before he looked up what he saw almost numbed his senses and he felt as if he would faint sitting in the foxhole pointing. m16 directly at his head was pfc. Morgan of first platoon crawled a few more feet forward. Still prone looked around. Every hole at hertford was occupied by an american captain warned. The company had returned to the hill. Sergeant owen l. lewis and james w edwards came over to help curb twos feet. No words passed between them. They were not merely choked up. They were sobbing convulsively and seeing them kirby new tears for the first time that day later. Warren said if my men cried it was because they were so damn mad. Kirby knew better than that. They were burning more. Nothing the death of the platoon. Kirby told them where to look for spreads and not knowing that the company had found him on the way up or that he'd already been evacuated from hertford by the chopper stuck appeared about that moment. And curb your phone to on k. Aboard the same. Huey it was sometime later. That johnson came in when the hill went quiet. He started crawling upward coming to the tall grass. He saw friend sergeant wallace w hood standing in the clear on the ford edge of hair aford and that site brought him to his feet days later he was still in a state of shock. Kirby taken to the hospital of his own choice return to the company duty within ten days. Still convalescent on my johnson. He was fully coherent with his emotions. Under tight control to we spoke of seeing the company in tears warned. The company had made that frantic uphill climb to offer it in exactly thirty five minutes. The descend over the same trail of taking them an hour longer. If a record march it was to little avail this all dead americans in all but six fox fox holes and thought at first sprint. It was the only survival survivor. The platoon weapons had been taken. Everybody had been stripped of personal effects. Warren deployed two of his platoon's for a six hundred yards sweep to the eastward along both flanks of the ridge the hunt proved almost barren of result though blood. Trails were numerous and heavily marked. Only five bodies were found. And they all too obviously had been felled by artillery the fanatics must've hauled away larger count of dead then was lost to the company. So in the end they departed as they had come more suddenly than mysteriously how the trap had been sprung. Was easy enough to figure out. In retrospect retrospect this enemy force of about two hundred was much too fresh to have followed in along warren's wake as he came over the trail from hill seven sixty six. The time interval was not long enough to have permitted essent from lower levels toward which had kept moving. If there had been an assembly and movement still no sound had been detected last. The enemy's main weapons were cited dead on target thus the enemy force must have been there all the time. Some yards off the trail and along the ridge. Sides as warrants column. Had walked through. Had warren stayed in full strength on hertford. There might have been no fight. He carried out his orders of that came the most melancholy episode in operation. Crazy horse. now you may have noticed that. I didn't mention the author of this book. That i'm reading the reason i didn't mention the author of this book is because i didn't want to cloud your impression. The author was a guy by the name of sla marshall. And i talked about him on. Podcast one forty two where we covered his book met against fire. And you heard him use that phrase in here and sla. Marshall was a famous military. Man will say and he ended up be general he was a historian he was a writer. He's a. he was a reserve so he was a civilian writer and wrote a bunch of articles in work for a newspaper. Also a very controversial figure and hackworth tore tore with him in vietnam and kind of reveals. The guy's character us very typical and he also he also made claims about his experiences in war. That were not true he. He lied about his experience. You know he. He lied about his military about as combat experience in world war one and then he also wrote in a way that supported his own theories his own hypotheses and in many fire. There's a lot of people that went back and broke down what he wrote in that book. And we cover that book on this podcast. Like i said because we didn't want to throw away the baby with the bathwater. But there's a lot of things that were very controversial and some of them just straight up wrong and on top of all that he never let the truth. Get in the way of a good story. So when i read this portion of battles in the monsoon this was this was on my mind and the article. I mean this book. Didn't it didn't paint kirby and such a bad light as this as the as the manual did which made him just sound like a complete. You know lackadaisical guy that just let all this stuff go and didn't have any discipline and didn't fall when he good protocols but at the same time i'm reading this book thinking well you know essa marshall. He's not necessarily a guy that's gonna he just want a really good story. So he's in my opinion and based on the things in the past. This isn't this isn't a reliable source either even though he would go and interview people like those quotes is getting. He would interview people absolutely but still he's going to. He's going to make that story kind of the way he wants. It and so. I was still not satisfied with the information that i had in front of me and so i did some more research and i found another article. I found an article on a on. A website called history. Net dot com. And there's an article written by a guy michael christie michael christie so michael christie enlisted in the marine corps out of high school and then he joined the army. It became an officer probably went to college. Came in officers served in the fifth special forces group in vietnam from nineteen sixty seven to nineteen sixty eight and nineteen seventy. He was the commander of c company first. Battalion twelfth cavalry regiment. The very same company involved in the battle at elsie hertford. So he wasn't there. But you're gonna have some connections. You're able to put some things together. You're going to hear some some backfill. And he eventually retired and became a writer in any produced a bunch of and then he made a series of leadership videos for for the military so the military hired him to make leadership videos. Some of those were hosted by kevin which is pretty cool but he wrote this article and this article is called last stand at l. z. Hertford soldiers shield themselves as best they can from the dirt and debris stirred up by a huey squeezing into tight one ship landing zone around noon. The pilot touches down to officers jump from the helicopter and land in a large mud puddle one. Gi chuckles pokes his buddy and laughs. Quietly at the officers in fresh. Jungle fatigues stamping. The mud off their polished boots. A dirty unshaven. Captain greets them wearing torn. Jungle fatigues and mud-covered boots toting m16. So there's worn our starting to get a little better picture you know. You've got the stereotypical sort of officers rolling in with their brand new fatigues and polished boots and outcomes warren. Who's been out in the jungle now for a while on this justice operation from the trio moves to the edge of the landing zone where towering elephant grass offers a bit of protection from the early afternoon sun. The major unfolds. A map in the three begin discussing a mission. Within minutes there was strong disagreement over the plan. Tenant colonel rutland beard commander of the first battalion twelfth cavalry first cavalry division and his operations officer. Major william role are insisting that captain don warren charlie company. Commander leave his twenty man. Mortar platoon alone on landing zone. Hair referred to provide fire support to warrants company as it moved down the steep precipice toward the valley below. Warren is equally insistent on keeping at least one rifle squad behind to provide security. Sir my mortar. Platoon is down to half strength because of malaria and has only m. sixteens and a couple of 'em seventy nine if i leave behind a rifle squad. They will have at least one machine gun for security beard tells. Warren the mortar platoon will be on the hill for less than an hour before it will be lifted out and taken to another l z. Warren's eyes lock on beards anything can happen in our sur irritated at warren's near insubordination. Beard warns captain. If you don't do as i order you will be in more trouble than you can imagine. Is that understood. Worn hesitates a moment before answering tersely. Yes colonel will that be all sir. Beard indicates yes and warren spins on his heels and walks over his rifle platoon leaders to pass the orders. Beard takes a sideward glance at role shakes his head and returns to his helicopter so automatically we we see where this is going and by the way. Look i love this book The the the the squad leader makes a difference but squad leaders putting a bad situation. Right now yeah. Warren has every reason for concern about the safety of his under-strength mortar platoon. Hair efforts. topography makes it impossible. For even a fully armed rifle company defended from a determined enemy. It is a small saddle hundred. Sixty five yards long by forty five yards wide this partially circuited by paul tall elephant grass beyond the elephant grass is completely surrounded by rugged unforgiving landscape the most hostile being the steep ridge line reaching northeast toward a towering mountain nearly a thousand feet high at the base of the ridge hair northern boundary begins to slope gently downhill continues on explaining what we already know. Hertford is also the center of fierce fighting. That began seven days earlier on may fifteenth. So now they give a little background to this. This whole operation crazy horse when word of that battle filtered down to first cavalry leaders. They then decided the next day. Conduct conductor major operation in the area. And that's what they're doing sitting on the edge of his foxhole on l. z. Hertford staff sergeant robert kirby watches as captain warn leads three platoons from his rifle company off the mountain and down a steep slope in search of the enemy when the last man disappears over the rim curb checks his watch. It's one forty pm less than in less than forty five minutes. His mortar platoon is to be airlifted off referred to l z. Savoie where we'll continue providing fire support for charter company tasks occupy a company sized defensive perimeter with only nineteen men. So now we're talking. Company says is perimeter. That's that's one hundred and fifty people. Yeah he's got nineteen guys. Kirby figured the best way to do this was to form a u shape defense and place to men into every third foxhole. This however left the top of the horseshoe opened knowing his men are spread too thin kirby a twenty nine year old native of south los angeles scans perimeter from his foxhole at the bend of the her shoe beginning with the gun crew directly behind him inside. The pit is sergeant charles gains and spec for austin drum and a former golden gloves champion with fast hands. Perfect were dropping rounds into a mortar tube sergeant. Isaac johnson sits on the ground nearby with a pop board on his lap. The gun crews ready to place supporting fire when and where the company commander needs it. Most of the mortar platoon have been together since fort. Benning georgia but a few are replacements who have never been embattled so kirby has no idea how would they will react under fire. One of his new men expect for david crocker twenty one year old medic who sits a few feet from kirby reading a paperback his medical bag. Ready at aside in the foxhole. Next to kirby is longtime radio operator spec for john sprint. Who is the platoons linked to the outside world and has never more than an arm's length away from kirby. Communications are unreliable because the high mountains and deep valley house. The kamo ask kirby so far so good answers sprinter but who knows for how long kirby focuses on the western section of the perimeter holding down the most forward position at the top of the open or shoe are two men who have fought bravely in previous firefights privates lonnie sleepy williams whose deep sleep often resulted in heavy snoring and clearance gomer brame a good natured hillbilly who looked and acted like. Tv's gomer pyle to empty. Fighting positions below them are combat vets robert radar rotor and pfc herald. Mac junior in a fierce firefight a few months before kirby had been wounded and pinned down when eighteen year old roader ignoring heavy fire. Ran out and pull them to safety mac and rotor had been close friends ever since airborne school. So we didn't know that about kirby that kirby's bidding combat he's been wounded and he's still out there doing his job this guy's combat experience and now we're to think that he's going to be accident in this scenario in the last defensive position on the western side kirby assigned a competent and respected leader. Sergeant lewis buckley with pfc henry benton who joined the platoon only two weeks ago. Curbing knows little about benton and the to new privates covering the southern sector a few yards away from curbs position. Joel tamayo and james francis brooks junior both of whom joined the between just a few weeks earlier. So he's got those guys that he doesn't really know too well kind of close panned kirby decides to walk the eastern side of the permanent. But before he goes he tells. Buckley collect stack water cans food containers and other equipment in preparation for the helicopter. Pick-up roger that sarge says buckley as he springs into action as kirby walks away. Here's spreads it. Take call take the first call for reconnaissance fire in advance companies movement in the valley below. So why is kirby walking the perimeter. Because he's doing his job as a leader and he's also prepping to leave when the helicopters come in. Is that the good time to stack up stuff and get it off the dc. The l z. No you want to have it prepped. So the helicopters. Don't spend a bunch of time there and you want to get all the stuff off the the enemy. Use it sitting. In the nearest position to kirby kirby is on the eastern sector is spec for av spikes who is complaining about something to pfc. Wade tastes spike. Stop bitching and keep your eyes. Open warns kirby as he approaches spikes twenty-six. A seven year veteran who's disregard for authorities. Well known looks at kirby but says nothing kirby orders eighteen-year-old taste to help buckley who's already picking up scattering cans and containers. So he's stop bitching and keep your eyes open. This is what a platoon sergeant should be doing. Kirby moves the next position where look magazine correspondent. Sam casson is interviewing spec for daniel post and pfc. Roger robert benjamin cast and came out in the field the day before to write a story about deaf. He had chosen stay on hertford with a mortar platoon rather than travel company. Post known as platoons practical joker feeds cast and mischievous responses while benjamin only respond. Yes or no answers. Kirby queries the two troopers on what they will do. If attack they tell them they plan on throwing hand grenades down the rocky prefaces below their position and firing interlocking fires with their positions on their left. and right. so that's kirby kirby is like. Okay what are you get hit. They say we're going over there. And where he got interlocking fields of fire with these other position satisfied. Kirby heads for the most forward position at the top of the eastern sector sector man by paul harrison and charles study both battle-tested specialists harrison stuck established interlocking fields of fire across the open end of the yushi perimeter with williams and brehm on the western side. So he set the positions he went out inspect the positions made. Sure people understand their fire. Squad leaders actually doing his job on the way back to his position. Kirby nights nods to sergeant first class. Edward shepherd sitting on the rim of the fox will not far apart from the mortar pits shepherd. Thirty eight is the only soldier there. Who's not in the mortar platoon. He stayed behind to catch a helicopter where he is to appear before a promotion board. Kirby sits on the edge of the fox. One watches spreads of talking on the radio with captain warren. Who's calling correction on where to place. Another mortar round spreads a yells back correction to the gun crew and then fires a few more rounds shortly after two pm. Warren radio spreads at the helicopters are on the way and that word spreads from whole the whole. What warren does not know is that the helicopters are actually delayed and still sitting on the ground at l. z savoie in the valley around to fifteen five minutes before the anticipated arrive at the helicopter stuck spots. Three well camouflaged. North vietnamese army soldiers watching him from the elephant grass. He opens fire with his. M16 in harrison joins in the three enemy drop either debtor wounded. So you're if you don't catch well camouflaged envy a if you're not paying attention. These guys are paying attention then in the next instant a massive volume of automatic fire and small arms fires only from high ground to the north and a ravined the shepherd sitting on the rim. The fox oldest killed in the valley volley within seconds the rocket propelled grenades. Mortar rounds exploded near each occupied position. Member deep inside their fox under the terrifying shrapnel slicing through the air and bullets cracking overhead. The platoon is surrounded. Outmanned and outgunned. Kirby radio warren and tell them they are under attack anita may mediate air and artillery support. A stunned worn acknowledges immediately calls battalion for fire support and or his company. Turn around and head back up the hill so to your point earlier warren. The reason he was a turnaround and go is because he didn't even want to leave in the first place in the open. Stacking equipment taste falls to ground with two bullets to the throat buckley. His shoulder covered in blood. Dashes across the open perimeter screaming. Get off the hill off the hill and disappears into the elephant grass harrison yells for study to go to the mortar pit while he stays behind. Hold off the enemy. Study takes a few more shots at the enemy turns zigzags for the mortar pit when an rpg round explodes in front of him throwing him to the ground after the shrapnel dirt stop falling you raises his head and looks to see where post benjamin had been trying to make an escape both are dead. He sprints towards the lard. Rob large rock right just outside the perimeter as he turns the corner of it. He encounters an enemy soldier about to throw a grenade into the l z spotting stuck in the nba tosses a grenade directly at him instead. Instead the grenades sales over stuck his head hits the rock behind him and explodes wounding him managing to stay on his feet stuck. He fires three rounds in the nba chest. Killing him instantly stuck then moves around the rock face fines a narrow crevice and squeezes into it hidden from the enemy paul harrison slapping magazine after magazine into his rifle fires at every charging enemy soldier. You can see when he runs out of ammunition he jumps up from his foxhole and charge the nba using his m sixteen as a club cracking a few heads before the blood covered rifle slipped from his hands. He then wades into the enemy with his fist until he falls dead from dozens of bullets as north vietnamese burst through the elephant. Grass spreads opens up with m16 on full automatic tearing three of them apart. He manages to fire off a few more shots before. Archie be rounds. Rpg rounds visible in their slow trajectory plunged toward the mortar. Pit one round slams in front of france's foxhole. Showering his back with shrapnel another explodes to his left killing doc crocker instantly. The third round sent shrapnel into kirby's arms head and chest the last round hits the rear lip of the mortar pit tearing off drubbings. Right arm and mingling left leg. He dies in a pool of blood. Gains is killed with a bullet through his head johnson. The only gun crew member alive take trapped on the facebook continues firing on the advancing enemy as attackers fall others. Jump over them running toward johnson who keeps firing until he is out of ammunition he makes a running dive at the rocky abatement on hertford southern edge and rolls down the slope careening off rocks and over tree roots until finally coming to a stop. He spots a v shaped depression hidden in thick vegetation with a stream running through it. He pulls himself into the stream and gathered brushing vines to hide his body grip of fear and exhaustion. On the western perimeter williams and brain frantically fire their m16 on full automatic at the waves of nba. As you roader. And mac a few v fall dead but most brave the wall of fire overrunning the position killing williams and bream before turning toward rotor. And mac mac pops up to get a better shot when he takes a bullet to the head crumbling back into the foxhole dead rotor. Fires is seventy nine until he's out of ammunition than picks up maximum sixteen and continues firing until it to his empty. He throws two grenades at the charging enemy forcing them to fall back then jumps out of his fighting position at heads for benton's foxhole when he tumbles in he finds benton dead he crawls out and with bullets trailing every step races over to the foxhole of brooks and tamayo but they are dead as well. The western defences crumbled figuring everyone else's dead. Rotor does what he's trained to do escape. Innovate he. tears. Down the side of the hill into the elephant grass followed by several enemy with bullets zipping over his head he runs deeper the elephant grass as fast as he can until he's overcome by exhaustion and drops to the ground when his gasping with his gasping for air subsides. He realized the enemies no longer following him. He stays hidden silently praying that he will be spared still in his whole spreads a sees. If you're running towards his position he fires off a quick bursts somehow missing his target. Don't shoot for god's sake it's me. Sam kenniston screams as he drops into the fox saw. The reporter looks over at kirby and yells. We need to get the hell out of here. Kirby shouts back where we're surrounded. Get six on the horn. Kirby tell sprinter tell him to hurry or were dead. Sporadic screams into the headset. Please hurry we're being overrun but warned doesn't get the transmission as communication between hair for and the company no longer exist spreads turns to the artillery frequency and repeats. The message are tillery artioli. Passes the call warn who now pushes his company even more ordering his men to double time up the hill a murderous pace in the mud and tangled vines by this time the battalion executive officer major cantrell is circling above hertford in his observation. Helicopter and colonel beard is watching the bow from his command and control. Huey the swarm of enemy. They see. Below is so intermingled with the mortar position. Neither officer can distinguish who who rather than kill the defenders by mistake beard holds off on artillery requested by kirby meanwhile kirby sees four enemy crawling towards his position less than fifteen feet away and tossed three hand grenades as fast as he can stopping their advance. Kirby now realizes cast in his right their only chance for survival is to get off the l z. He cups his hands to bark the order. When the badly wounded taste suddenly drops into his foxhole kirby ties addressing on tastes bleeding throat and yells over the enemy fire. We gotta make a break for it call already. All the hill spreads a reaches the artillery net shouting into the handset. We're getting out of here. The places covered with enemy just about every body is dead he is told artillery is on hold off with bullets kicking up dirt all around them kirby and taste low crawl overspreads and casten. We'll go over. The rim in the direction of the company will be coming in haulers kirby. Let's go as spreads a struggles with his radio while he climbs out of the foxhole kirby screams forget the radio blow. It spreads oppose the pin of a hand grenade and throws it in the foxhole with the radio the three soldiers and cast and move quickly away from the blast and a few steps later. Come across a wounded wounded. Av spikes clutching his seventy-nine kirby spreads have their m16's but very little ammunition casten who is also wounded has three fifty seven magnum that kirby gave him taste his on armed the five wounded men. Now move toward the slope. Descending into a deep ravine to the east kirby tasted spikes and cast and run crawl roll into the elephant grass while spreads at act as a rearguard before rolling down the hill to join them as they a small ravine they hear the enemy coming down from the elysee in hot pursuit they lie down figuring the americans are hiding the. Nba began beating the grass. The first north vietnamese despite the americans is shot in the face by sprint. Kirby kills another standing nearby spike fires. 'em seventy nine hundred group killing five the other to crawl away wounded seconds later. Another group of north vietnamese spray. The ground around the american sprinter takes three bullets in his right leg one smashing into his kneecap severing the tendon. Another bullet rips through his left leg hits brand screams as he falls into a heap on the jungle floor. Kirby sprays the advancing enemy with the last of his ammunition causing them to retreat when he bends down to check on spreads a bullet smashes into his right arm. He's now losing blood. From many wounds. Kirby is an nba peeking over the grass and pulls out a rusty french flare goni found on old battlefield and fires hitting him between the eyes. The soldier falls backwards screaming in agony as his flesh burns away in. The meantime taste silently bleeds to death from his throat. Wounds hearing something behind him spins a spins around. Just as a bullet enters the back of his skull travels through his john xs out of his nose tearing away the cartilage teeth tissue and skin is filled with blood spreads. It goes down but somehow still alive possibly to regroup. The enemy stops firing. Kirby tells everyone to head farther down the ravine quietly. The four route survivors crawl than walking down the slope with help from kirby and spike sprint manages to keep up feeling somewhat safe with the nba. About one hundred yards behind they move a little faster suddenly spotting a small group of enemy coming up trail to their flank spreads a signals to get down cast in does not see sprint us warning and keeps going running straight into a group of north vietnamese coming from another direction. One of the nba shoots cast in the head killing him. The enemy now opens fire grasses from two sides spike. Take several bullets in his chest. Kirby checks his pulse but cannot find one. The north vietnamese troops slowly wade through the grass toward kirby and spreads up kirby's out of ammo spreads as rifles jam. But he has two grenades left and he gives them to kirby who tosses them into the advancing enemy just then friendly artillery rounds begin pounding l zero for the deafening explosion. Stop the enemy's advance kirby and spreads it take advantage of the situation begin to move slowly back up the hill. but it's too much for spencer. Go without me he gasps. I can't move any further. i'm dying. I'm not leaving you alone. Says kirby sprains yell save yourself ahve made peace with my lord just go kirby believing spreads will die for sure reluctantly seeds to the rt ios demand crawls away back toward tariff erred. Although growing weaker from loss of bud blood finds the will to take off a scabbard knife strapped to his leg by a leather thong. He places the knife around on the ground next uses the rawhide as a tourniquet to stop the bleeding in his right leg. He then somehow manages to open his first aid. Kit find a gauze bandage and begins wrapping around his head. And i before he can finish however he hears rustling of men coming towards him through the grass. He takes his knife into his hand and rolls over face down in the dirt. Playing dead spreads doesn't move a muscle as three or four n a slowly approach. He smells their bodies and stale breath as they search him for anything of value. One man turns him over and roughly strips off his signet rink another take his wallet cigarettes and dog tags on able to stay motionless another second. He's about to jump up with his knife. When he hears a helicopter rapidly descending it sprays the ground with bullets some so close they spattered dirt his face screaming frantically the nba. Run for cover. Still afraid to move spreads it continues to play dead and seconds later. Here's someone carefully moving toward him. He rips knife a little tighter and when he feels a hand grab his shoulder he musters all the strength he has left and try stabbing the man but the large shadowy figure bat licked by the sun. Drifting through the trees quickly grabs spreads as knife in hand screaming. Hey it's me. Carlos carlos cruz. Charlie company had made it back up the hill. The last of his energy drained spreads a lays down as head and slips into business. Kirby is halfway up the slope when friendly are to receive his falling uncertain. What it means. He keeps crawling. His many wounds are taking their toll but he keeps going until he reaches the top of the hill where he sees. Charlie company troops everywhere unable to control his wounded body and frayed emotions. He slides to the ground. Medics gives him a shot of morphine and stops his bleeding. When the wounded stocky comes crawling into the elza another medic russia's over lays him down and treats his wounds spreads is carried up the hill and a stretcher made from ponchos and shortly he curbing study are placed in a medevac helicopter and flown out passing the medevacs flying out helicopters begin delivering reinforcements. Who pile out onto harvard. A look of horror passes over their faces at the site of so much. Death and destruction one soldier throws up hearing the helicopters coming and going johnson who got off the hill and evaded. The enemy slowly approaches the lcd. Only to face the muzzle of an m sixteen held by pfc morgan. He drops the ground out of relief when he is recognized by morgan blast mortar platoon survivor to get back to the days. A roader company platoon leader asked rogan to identify the bodies. All of which have been stripped a personal shot in the head. He's able to name a few before. The weight of the massacre takes its toll. He cannot look at another dead friend as he sits down the afternoon. Monsoon rains begin pouring down out of the dark sky. Rotor shivers as the rain. Peltz's sobbing body so much death in such a small place so there's another view of this battle and clearly You know the the differences immense the leadership issues you know. And there's a whole discussion to have about bad you know at what point when you're being told to do something that doesn't make sense. At what point do you at. What point do you say we're not doing that. And and you know this is leadership strategy and tactics got bowl assessment of that. And it's not like i'm not saying leadership and strategy and tactics tells you the answer but it gives you the the options and it's heavy options away and and you can look at worn and say well. It wasn't safe i wouldn't do it okay. Well then he fires you on the spot. He puts some young lieutenant in charge tune and you get thrown on helicopter and taken out so well. So what did you do now. You can also say. Hey roger that by the way. Gimme gimme a fire team over here. Gimme gimme machine gunner. This is what we're doing once the once the leave you can do that. That's good option. Are like that option. You and you don't know what kind of relationship we have. Because there's i. I mean i guess we could say the peers that the relationship is a great idea that much but sometimes if somebody is very convicted in the way that they're offering advice it can be convincing and this is something that i have to be careful of because i know i can be convincing. I know i can't be. And i have to be careful in fact that's one of the probably the original reasons for me being such a listener. Is i know that. If i say i think we should do this. A lotta people just gay roger that like if that's what you think we're on board. I mean that's kind of something. I had to watch out for and be turned into more of a listener because i didn't want to subdue people's thoughts. I didn't want to tamper with their ideas. And i didn't want to to override how they thought something should go so we have to be careful of that as a leader to make sure that we aren't just being so overbearing that people don't push back against us. The three different versions i if you want to call them versus just the three different perspective of that you know pay each one paints such a unique picture and you know i wrote down on my notes again. Everything that i write down and just the things that thinking in real time and it's really frustrating to sit here and listen to this knowing the outcome and seeing all these pieces play out knowing that this was a totally this. This was a preventable. This is a leadership failure. It is a leadership failure at a lot of different levels and this last one really paints more clear picture of how this predicament happened but knowing that this is this is not an unsolvable problem that they were just inouye could. This have been prevented this to simply not true and the frustration of that. When i picture just the conversation of the of the person in charge telling a subordinate do it or else just the just the the philosophy that i lied through my authority and the catastrophic events that happened that has in this case. We're talking human life. I mean this is a catastrophic thing but those same that same approach and how often leaders are emphatic. And what they want not recognizing just how destructive that is to them as a leader. And i'm trying to picture these guys up on a helicopter looking down and the sickening feeling they must have had. This is what i what. What did i create. how did i. How did this happen. Well it happened because of you because you as a leader demanded things happened the way that you want. And i'm picturing i mean and i was struggling early with this guy with with the company commander not being able to reconcile and that's just me piecing things together and i imagine this feeling of entire time walking down the hill knowing knowing he didn't want to do that. The patent quote frontline the front line. The leader in the field is always right right. You're coming from your helicopter. You're getting off and you're telling me what to do that. Sits so foul for me and the other thing. That's interesting about this. Is you would think that we could be sitting here saying to you. Know military leaders that you and i were you you. It's very easy to say we could. You could be sitting here having a conversation where look discipline is paramount. Obviously we can sit here and say jaakko jaakko saying discipline is paramount. No one would question that for one. Millisecond discipline is paramount. You have to you have to get people into a point where they will obey what you say and you. They need to do it. That's what military training is. That's what you learn in boot camp. That's what you learn in officer candidate school to to instant obey orders. Like that's what we want and that's just just so wrong. It's just so wrong. It's so wrong to think that it's so wrong to feel that way and you know what like. I'm so thankful that. I had the luxury of being in the military and being able to experience this and and and then on top of that getting to see it while i was training people and top of getting to see it with all these companies that we work with because occasionally to this debt. Someone will say to me. Somebody at some company will say yes but sometimes don't they just need to shut up and do what they're told to do. I get i get that. I still get that. And what they think. I'm going to say well hell. Yeah that's what everybody thinks. I'm going to say and it's like actually no. You don't want that and i actually. I actually had a situation like this was a working with the client and had to people on the call. There's more than pupil but there's two people that kinda rose to the conversation. One of them was you know but they just need to do it. And an i rebutted that guy and said well. If what you're going to do you know bark. Tim shut up and do it whether you believe it or not. That's not gonna have a good outcome. And here's why went through the whole thing. And when i got done with that the other guy said that's what we need to do. We need to actually listen to what they have to say. We have to take their input all those things. We need to make their plan. All those things that we talk about all the time which is shocking. That people still you know what they think. Tactically because tactically say dave. Shut up and do what i told you to do. You're gonna do it. I just like this guy did str- tactical win. Hey the tank commander says hey you shut up and do what i told you to do. Yeah roger that okay. You just won the tactical battle but what look what happens. Look what happens. You won that little tackle babble and you lose these other people at and look could there have been no one waiting z. Absolutely there have been no one way there could have been no enemy on that alsi and everything would have gone fine and that guys. That guy's tarango behavior would have been reinforced as the right way to lead. Ain't the right way to lead is not the right way to lead. This guy's a battalion commander. He's probably been leading like that through his whole career with with with no consequence surly nope nothing like vista to this degree. This story and you know what makes that happen. And i brought this up with a client the other day in the military. Because i say look you can be effective with that kind of browbeating. Tyrannical leadership for for whatever for an hour for a week. Right eye radio dave. Shut up into it. I told you do and actually in the military. I can get away with it for my whole career. Why is that because you dave. You're working for me. You know you only have to work for me for eighteen months. You know it's gonna take me a couple months to figure myself out by the time. My tour is starting to look coming to an end. You're not going gonna give me resistance anymore. You're like oh he's gone and whatever so. These guys can bounce from job to job to job being in charge of this group. By the time he leaves they. He's hated but he's accomplished. he's accomplished the mission right. he's got his good fit rep here his job. He's accomplished mission. he's hated they. Don't wanna do it. they're sabotage numerous. They're they're sloughing off. They're doing all those things but no one knows it. His his chain of command above him things. We did a good job. You've got the mission accomplished. First of all i never got tested. Second of all doesn't know the morale of the troops because that guy's able to hide it so that's how these military leaders sometimes they through their whole career and i mean whole career. I'm talking thirty four year career where they never actually lead anybody. All they did was bark orders and they retired admiral. They retired general and and they don't know how to lead they don't know how to lead. Obviously there's some incredible generals and admirals obviously and captains and colonels. Obviously but just because you became an admiral or you became a colonel or you became a captain or you became a general. That doesn't mean you knew how to lead. And you know what you if you were a tyrannical leader. You can get away with that in the military. Yeah you can get away with it because only two year command. No one wants to guess whatever below you actually also wants a good fit right so you want a good fit rep. So you're going to bark at everyone and everyone below you just wants a good evaluation. So they're just gonna kinda. Follow your lead and put up with it. That i mean. That's that's self preservation. I saw that in my career all the time too and and we had a term for we call it a run out the clock scenario. And we'd sit and we'd have young captains. The junior guys would sit around and it was just us and we'd we'd get fractured. And i'd see people complain and and i'd see my peers getting this off their chest and and when you do the calculation. Hey what are we going to do about it. We push back and we're gonna we're gonna fight back up the chain of the end. The conclusion is always just run out the clock man. This guy's gone in seven months or whatever or just this guy's going in seven months and by the way we have we got a two month trip here. He's not coming with us. We got this. We got that he's going to this thing and it's really. What is it going to be facing him for another month. Don't worry about it up. And i don't mean to paint some picture that we just sort of resigned ourselves really what it was. Was you normally to focus my energy on my guys. Yeah i'm gonna. I'm not gonna waste my time with this guy. But but it does create that it helps perpetuate this scenario just described and you know to whatever small percentage there are leaders in the military just like every other organization that got their way they they got their way through and and they're not good leaders because they do exactly this and i'm thinking to of of not a scenario where you're my subordinate leader and i go. Hey i want been done this way jaakko and you're not like may you know i was kinda thinking maybe plan b. is better than plan. A you're saying. Dave no way man. What better position for me is a guy who who the more emphatic. You are about what you're doing more likely it's likely that the more loyal you are and the more you want the outcome to be good. That's why you're pushing back. And if you're in a leadership position and your people are pushing back aggressively. That's even more reason to listen to them because this clearly something and what always happens is we meet. We see people meet resistance with resistance. The more resistance. I get the more i should stop resisting the more. I wanna listen now if you go. Yeah i guess so okay. Cool just do my way. And that's the end of the story but if go to the mat with me no. This is a bad idea. And i'm not gonna listen to that as a leader. Why is this person pushing back. 'cause they 'cause they don't care about the mission they don't care about the people who don't care about the outcome and jaakko pushing back because he doesn't eat because he doesn't care about his people as he doesn't want to be successful why. Why would possibly be drawing a line in the sand right now right. Yeah there's know what the reason is. There's a reason there's a reason there's a damn good and you need to figure it out and also in this thing this scenario were painting your my subordinate leader. I also have to give you a little bit of credit. You recognize you're putting your career at risk you're going to blow up to me junior subordinate i have to recognize that you even realize this is a sketchy move. You're making right now. You're going to the boss and telling him no you don't think. The subordinate leader recognizes the risks. That he's taking by by by digging in a little bit and going boss. This is a bad idea. i mean. Of course. I'm sitting here with the luxury of having benefited from all the things that echelon front has done and all the things that you've written about in all the podcasts listened to it doesn't make it any less easy to hear this story and picture that conversation and know that that tyrannical leadership is widespread in. It's all over the place and it doesn't work. it's it's it's it's rushing. Listen that story and you think about the catastrophic outcome but even the subtleties of people leading through. Hey at the end you know we can go back and forth but in the end you're gonna do it my way. What a what a devastating approach that is to the two leading the people around you horrible in every possible way so digging a little bit deeper on this there was some there was people that wrote in too history net dot com and asked michael christie for some more amplifying information. Here's one of the letters that got written in the article last stand at l z. Hair aford by michael. Christie had living the experiences. As if i were there i served in vietnam with the marines including forty days under siege at khan pin in one thousand nine hundred sixty seven. We always feared a human wave attack like experienced by the soldiers effort. I would like to know if lieutenant colonel rutland beard was ever charged with negligence for ordering charlie company commander cop captain don warren to leave his mortar platoon behind any vulnerable position with no infantry support while the rest of charlie moved out also. I was curious to know if staff sergeant robert. Kirby was recognized for his harrowing attempt to lead a small group of soldiers and journalists. Sam cast into safety. I have to wonder how john sprinter who was badly wounded and play dead before his rescue and the other survivors are doing today after their dreadful experience. Well for one thing. We know that staff sergeant. John kirby though not named was written about in a very negative way in this other manual. But guess what. Michael christie responded in. Here's where here's his response as one would expect the horrors of the massacre l. Hertford had a tremendous impact on the lives of those of all those involved captain. Don warren became an alcoholic and eventually committed suicide so that the decision that we're sitting here toiling over. He toiled over to sergeant robert. Kirby retired from the army and refuses to talk about here for claiming he remembers almost nothing about it although he did receive a silver star for his part in the battle. God bless him. Bob roeder has a severe case of ptsd but still managed to succeed. He made his high school sweetheart. Raised a family and operated a multimillion dollar medical supply business. John sprinter overcame. his physical. Injuries is so bob roeder was the last guy to be recovered. The guy that broke down trying to identify as friends. John's got shot in the ear. Exit wounded the knows. John sprint overcame his physical injuries but suffered from emotional damage. His drinking led three divorces yet the same determination that saved his life forty-six years ago allowed him to work successfully in two long careers. I in the printing industry and then as a rural postman for twenty years. He and his wife twenty six years or retired and live in northern georgia georgia. Charles study died of cancer six years ago. No one heard. From isaac johnson since l z hertford was overrun. No official record exists on rutland beard receiving any reprimand. He retired from the army as a colonel ask. For the company members who rushed to the rescue all are still horrified by the carnage. They witnessed once they reached l zero for. There's another letter. The story of carnage on l. z. Hertford is a riveting piece of work but as noted it varied glaringly in spots from the sla marshall narrative published forty six years ago nonetheless both ours authors accurately captured the overall horror of the event about a week before the attack described by christie on accompany from another battalion had been overrun at hertford. And my company from the one five caf first cav division was listed on the l. z the following morning to assist in his book battles in the monsoon. Marshall claimed that all that the as had been evacuated the previous evening. But i distinctly recall seeing the poncho covered bodies of the us soldiers. Still wringing the landing zone. Dennen muir everywhere. The americans gave as good as they got. And there's one more little well maybe not so little. There's one more detail that i won't go into. So sam casten journalist. He was married when he was in vietnam and he and his wife. A woman named fran casten had moved to hong kong while he was working vietnam so they were close flight. Then he figured mo still wanna see you so we'll move to hong kong. And then when i go work in vietnam and then when when not working i'll come back and they've been there for about a month before he was killed and thirteen month old toddler at the time there in hong kong and after he was killed she packed up. She went back to the states. I mean devastated obviously and not only devastated but now what now what you know whatever plans she had are now obviously gone so she had to put her life together as best. She could she. She had been school. She'd studied english. I believe and she went and started knocking on doors and eventually got a job at the new yorker magazine and then she moved over to the scholastic magazine and eventually became a teacher at the school of visual arts in manhattan teaching right again and that is where at age forty. She started to write poetry and she wrote a poem about her husband. Sam casten the brave journalist who was killed on that awful day and the poem is called operation crazy horse and here it is a grand kowloon hotel ahead of red tiled pool a masseuse who pressed fragrant oil of almond into my body in the full heat of the sun elsewhere northeast of saigon a man beheld you and fired at the undertaker's you were all made up and your hair was parted wrong so is smooth hit the way you would have liked someone shouted stop as if we were caught making love on the couch in my father's house god knows what they feared. Unfamiliar streaks in your hair must have paled at the moment of terror and grown longer in the time since eerie as strands of tickertape still printing. Such dark hair shocked white. How afraid you were. All i could do was hold you there you go. There is more to every story and more for us to learn and what we need to learn here. May my opinion from all of this. Is that your decision and your actions. Make a difference inhabited impact on the world again. This is an incredible manual. The squad leader makes a difference in in. It doesn't just apply to squad leaders that applies to all of us. Your actions make a difference in having an impact on the world. You're gonna leave a mark you leave on imprint on the world and you leave an imprint on the people around you so make it a good one well echo charles. Go ahead man. well it's true. We do leave an impact on the people around us and we do make a difference and to make a difference. We need to be capable okay. So we do the right things for ourselves so that people around us we start with our physical health in my opinion as always sick so on our journey through improvement in maintaining physical health. You know we need supplements. I give you a hard time about just being able to press record. Sure because that doesn't seem like a very hard job. It's not but what i just did. You is kind of a shitty thing to do. isn't it. challenges. And and i understand know. Come to understand these things which is okay. It's okay for those that might be joining us for the first time. Sometimes the podcasts can be a little much. We'll heavy and so early on. We realized that maybe a little decompression would be good. I know i need it. I know i need it sometimes. So so i'm sorry for setting you up with the frequent horrible job of going from that conversation that we just had into whatever it is. You're talking about sorry it's okay and you know what in in the spirit of understanding. And how should i say doing my part. I should've took what you said in really gate. Kinda gave my thoughts on it. 'cause my thoughts going to be a little bit late lighter than yours general. It'd be a little bit of a transit. A little smoother transitions went. Trust straight into talking about yellow drinking. Yeah yeah so. It was kind of rough for sure still true. What would your thoughts have been waiting. Go into because those like dang i should just be quiet for a little bit. Maybe that's and that's part of the thing that's part of the deal is a coup. That could just be the end of the podcast. I get it right. Yeah but i actually don't want to leave anyone that way to be honest with you. You don't wanna leave. Look the point has been made. We get it right. It's true. yeah. I don't wanna leave. I don't want someone press stop walkout and like that's what's going through their head. Yeah they will work all right. We need little. We need to bring it back around right. Bring it back around. The world has darkness in it right. We just saw that. We just saw that by the way the author the his wife. Fred casten. she's alive. She's in mike. East hampton or something. She's out there right poems. Maybe we'll hear from her. I mean given the circumstances it's like okay it's What do you call like good to meet you but not under these circuit. Yeah that's all right. Well how can we make a difference if we're not capable true we'll just say it's hard i would say we're we want to make a good mark on the world. Yeah how do we do that. what what how. How do you suggest us doing a better job of leaving a positive impression on people in the world. I say keep your stuff together. Cool got it clean. Keep it together. Burke of you're so bored he's reading freaking kansas. He's reading the ingredients from go. I'm not saying you're wrong. He's looking that's like a what do you call it like a vanity. But he's looking at his own can. He's like aw happened to notice that these are two different cans so it caught my attention. Go see that too. So i i could be more vain than i am. I'm just barely noticing different cans of the same drink because right before that. You're looking at your fingernails you know. I don't know if you worked out today. Whether you're looking at physique i saw the whole deal so all good and or or he could be bored whichever. You've successfully lighten the mood aren't well don oppress record things from time to time nonetheless when we're working out we need supplements joints get take beaten. Sometimes we got something for your joints. You need protein okay. So if you're working hard you know depends on who you are whatever. You need a certain amount of protein to facilitate the gains or. Should i say the results. Okay you said gay and said games with the point is you. Need a certain amount of protein recovery crew recover correctly. Do you know the protein range. Yeah yes a one gram. You're like shaking. I'm sorry go ahead. One grandma lean one. Gram per pound of lean body mass. I think correctly. I think that's the old school it's actually less than okay. The new school is a range from point six in cash. You i mean one. That's high one gram per faith. I it might. It starts a level out. I think like point eight or something like us well nonetheless knows that is what i'm trying to say. So and furthermore not only do not. A lot of people know that it's hard to do that. You're like just that's your jam. You're planning the week and all that not all that you know. I didn't realize that. So look let's say you have one hundred eighty five pounds of lean body in. You're trying to get the point seven. We'll say it's a lot of protein not for you number. You know. But i'm just saying for the rest of you know. Think about everything that you need. Mock gb more understanding hike. Okay wait seven. One range. What i look media. Let's say any of that okay. What if i just said. Hey you need more people are we let you have failed. Pointed to describe why you need mark. I'll stand down but can you hurry a little bit. I'm stating again. You just like we get the message you want to do you. Though do you get them. I think we did the mezzanine brown obviously but why i'm here between our urging good anyway take the disobeyed goes break it like this. I like it anyway. Speaking of discipline go and bear with me here. Bear with me so disciplined good thing. It tastes good. It's a little drink kind of like a soda. I mean okay. It's not like a soda but it's like soda. So and i'm gonna tell a little story short so you know how like when you go to the movies right. You go to the movies. Do you get no soda and popcorn at the movies. Sure they burke soda popcorn. The us right. Yeah the i understood so you go to the movies you get your soda you get your popcorn and you just have the watch the movie with your kids and it's awesome you come home and you kinda remember whether it be late at night or the next day you're like i have the movie man but eight that whole thing of popcorn you know. Many calories are in popcorn in junk calories too by the way. There's a different. It's a lot it's like thousand key depends on the quiz and then you got the soda right. There's a small tinge of guilt that comes with you. Same thing with the brownies. Same thing with the other stuff that you eat. Don't act like oh. The pretzel wrapped hot dogs at my wife. Made for me on super bowl. Sunday i somehow i forget where everyone was but like they came out of the oven. My fam- wasn't around. And i was like all. I just have one or two while my family's not iran iraq did half iraq half trae. I crushed and how big was it. I don't know the specific was like a cookie tight all like standard the standards. The i'm gonna go ahead and say twenty twenty winning of those things you figure. Like no factor this calories per probably be new. They're real small but those are like sausages with freaking straight up. Who knows oh yeah. It sounded nice button. And you get it like you'll just go punish you'll pay the price next protocol the next a lot of us. We got a little bit more like guilting. We're like managed. I kinda just shouldn't have done that anyway. The point is when you drink the discipline go and the mall to by the way you get that same sort of satisfaction that you would have had with the soda or the frigging oreo cookie. Shake from the drive through or wherever you get that same front end but you get away better back in you get actually positively. Exactly actually better. What was weird. Was i kind of thought about it. Because i okay with a banana by the wing and the next house like man. Last night i had that desert wait. Desert wasn't something junk. It was something good. -freshing got a double positive hit actual protein getting to your point seven. Then you've got guilt for not any guilt. Free but positively. Yeah so this is like across the board win win front and back end tactical strategic all. Good stuff appreciate that. They've got a bunch of other stuff. There supercrew will vitamin d. Three cold war warrior kids mock. You got all kinds of good stuff you can get it from jaakko fueled dot com and by the way. If subscribe to any of these things. The shipping is free because we know that that was kind of an issue. People like i want this but shipping is expensive. We're trying to allow people to more easily. Stay on the path and also if you're just if you're just a person that doesn't quite stay on track. That doesn't quite a thing to things it they're supposed to do. And they end up. Saying i actually ran out of joint warfare or whatever. Just subscribe echo charles. Just subscribe if you subscribe. It's coming and it's free shipping. Get some Jaakko fueled dot com. Also you can get the you can get the the the drink at wa wa chain wide by the way chain wide. Apparently there's some insurgency abdomen. some other. Some other brands are trying to you. Know maneuver. and they're getting ambushed the so appreciate everyone going there and and and just getting after it clearing shelves it tells kind of good stories. Story could corey he. He he went in with a cooler. He literally posted. He literally cleared. Cleared the the the fridge out. Imagine the guy the front desk or the cashier guys like. Why do you have a cooler shirt. Using 'cause i'm going to go. My current favorite thing to do is i tagged on on instagram. All the time of people doing that. And i just put it on my story and it's just story after story people going in tiding huahua and just emptying the shelves like the buying everything they can also appreciate every game after that and you also get all the supplement. The whole line at vitamin shoppe. And like i said free shipping with you if you subscribe if you might also need jujitsu gear budget to. You might need a rash guard. You can get all that stuff from origin. Usa dot com by the way they implemented implemented origin dot com. You can get that. They're all this good stuff. And plus if you if you ever are often mats of justice and you need something where because we know what we're wearing on the mats right wearing our origin g origin rash guards often. That's justice and you need clothing. Which you do you can get jeans. You can get boots you can get. Dang got socks coming under you can. We're getting. we're getting all this. All this made in america made in america. Which is which is what we are doing to rebuild manufacturing in this country so go to origin. Usa dot com. Get whatever you need also if you need more stuff you know to to wear off the mats and on by the way good a dukla store dot com no here you can find your more discipline themed theme but more disciplines slanted skewed apparel okay. Here's the thing you wanna represent one. When you're on the path you do think about what you are representing though just face it you you do run the risk of representing the same thing your neighbor across the street. Who's not on the path by the way is are you an elitist retina hundred. My neighbor across the street is a bad ass. All then okay. Then there you go. That's cool. But i'm saying you do run. The risk got it. Seem saying look if you have discipline eagles freedom or you have good or something like this. You don't run that risk. You seem sane. So if you're going to represent on the path here is a good place to get the stuff and it's a good move over where to get it. Jock store dot com wherever little subscription situation going onto called the shirt locker. That's different. It's not different but it's kinda different jack. It's a shirt every month. cool new design exclusive. You can't get them on the store. Otherwise can't who's new ones. You're you're into this elite kind of elite shirt. Where i'm i'm just i'm just letting them know letting everyone know nonetheless called shirt lockets on chocolate store dot com. So yes i know for that many. If you think that that's cool we think you want to represent that way. That's a good good good deal. Roger that subscribe to this podcast. Also we got the jackal unraveling. We got the ground podcast. We got the warrior kid. Podcast we also have the jaakko underground dock around dot com where we give them a amplifying information other things different topics different subjects behind the scenes. We're setting up for qa right. Yeah and that's like questions. I okay so i get it. Dave burke jaakko front again and say hey how do i. How do we get buy in from the team right. That's a common one. It doesn't have to be pro Questions about like work work and could be outside of work. Yeah sata yeah. It set up so good questions at jaakko underground dot com somebody. Your question submit audio video question too i. That's you proactive. You just made that happen. The squad leader makes a difference. Could different sir. I'm trying over here doing. Are you the trooper squad if you want to. If you want to get all this new support us you can go to jaakko underground dot com or call eight dollars and eighteen cents a month which is a number with layers and not just protects us from number one having to be a slave to sponsors and protects us from if we if from people saying they didn't want to they don't want hostess anymore. They can try it. We got it. We'll be standing by execute contingency plan. So thanks everyone. That's supporting on that. We got a youtube channel. We got youtube channel. That charles he makes videos. And i am the director of the good ones which is important also origin. Bj has has. They're putting some cool videos up as well. Check that one out that one also psychological warfare album. Don't forget about this okay. Sometimes we can shy away from the support that we need him sane. Sometimes we need the support. We wanna slip on the diet. Skip the workout turn a workday into a rest day. Let's face it. that's the thing anyway. Psycological album for chocolates telling you why you shouldn't do that and then you won't do it on amazon where everybody. Mp threes boom psychological warfare. Is there also flipside. Canvas dot com. My brother dakota meyer making cool stuff to hang on your wall the coolest stuff to hang on. You're going to hang someone on your wall if you're gonna hang something on your wall. Don't you wanna look at it and say that's from dakota meyer. Yes that's one hundred percent everything we've never said that before that's one hundred percent what i want. If i'm hanging on my wall. I want it to be from dakota meyer. You agree with flipside dot com. If you want that we got a bunch of books. Final spin. What is it. It's it's an. It's not dave assessment. You've read final spin. I have assessment. I'd like i'd actually kind of secretly wanted to where i sit in the log of readers. Where am i actually. You know what i haven't got you haven't gotten you. The final version the final. It is not just a book. I can tell you that for sure and it is. They're going to have a hard time figuring out where to put this one of the book show they put it over there and they put it over there and the yeah like where does it go. Time my my validation that it wasn't just me just digging. What i was reading is i shared it with my wife which i gotta be honest. I don't there's not a lot of crossover in my world doing. I don't share all this up with my wife. We gotta stuff going on. I don't like you know you're not talking about battles in the bond soon. How podcast it was awesome. Okay cool what we need to do around the house. How can i help. I know i've been gone for seven hours. I shared this with her and she just burned through it. I think in two days and burn through ten o'clock and gets into bed and she says up way too late and finishes in two nights and she's like that was really good. That's when i knew like my version of it being good how to be validated by a totally disinterested party with no no bias. Yeah she was totally still well. Interestingly my mom so you would think what you just said like. Oh biased right. You'd think. Oh i send it to my mom. That's a given right. You know my mom my mom because she was an english teacher and so she's just they're just just jesus there i would say throw darts. But she's not there to throw narcis. She's there to hawk machetes at your work. My work right. And so. I sent it to her for a final read and she sent me a text that said like halfway done. I am loving this book. That was complete shock. If i don't laugh about it because life was was a with me. A new york city win extreme ownership made number number one new york times bestseller which is which is like sort of the thing the cool thing for a book write and i. I called my parents on speakerphone in in leif slick standing there. Listen i'm okay. I just wanna let you guys know you know. We made new york times selling this. You know with the book that i wrote with life in my mom's oh well we'll see how long it's on there for like we will so a positive review. Yeah and it'll be interesting. You know you go into a bookstore. they have. I guess categories whatever they be interesting to see where they put it. I will tell you it's gonna be it's gonna be very so we got that if you wanna preorder that thing also. It's all way why preorder well so you can get it because once again we don't want you to not get it. We don't want definitely don't want you to not get a i a dish deal when you you want that i a dish. Here's the other thing. The the publisher my publisher. Do you think they're nervous about this. Day are nervous. They're nervous 'cause they're like you. You dispose swiss write leadership books. What about get but well. Yeah you're gonna write a novel will be d. Don't you want us want to stay in your little lane over here. No so put them at ease before they freak out so final leadership strategy and tactics field manual the code evaluation of protocols discipline because freedom funeral field manual the way of the warrior kid for field manual. Where the word get one. Two and three mike dragon. About-face by david hackworth extreme ownership and the dichotomy of leadership echelon from its leadership consultancy. You can hear. Dave and i talked about it today. This is what we do. We saw problems through leadership. Go to ashkelon front dot com for details f online. It's leadership training for everyone. F online dot com. It's it's where you can get your whole team. Training tomorrow is tomorrow. You have to do something crazy. Enough to contact you can go to echelon go to year. Online dot com. You can start training tomorrow the muster in twenty twenty one we got these things lined up goat. Extreme ownership dot com. It's our live event. All these sold out these are going to sell out to f overwatch. If you need leaders inside your company go to yes. Overwatch dot com and we have leaders that understand the principles we talk about. They can go in your company and help you win. And if you wanna help servicemembers servicemembers active retired you and help their families to and help gold star families checkout mark lease mom mom elise. She's got a charity organization. If you want to donate or you want to get involved. Go to america's mighty warriors dot org. And if you want more of my protracted parables or you need some more of echoes perplexing postulations or you just crave some more of dave's super serious sokha's us on the web on twitter on instagram. Which echo only knows as lou gram and on facebook. Dave is at david. Burke echo attic charles and i am at dhaka willink. Thanks to all the people out there in uniform all of you all the military. The police law enforcement firefighters paramedics dispatchers correctional. Officers are border patrol. Secret service first responders. And all of your family's waiting at home. Thanks to all of you for making a difference every single day with what you do and everyone else out there keep learning keep involving and never forget your decisions and your actions. They make a different not just in your life but in the lives of other of other people. Don't just go through life. Don't just go with the flow. Be intentional about what you're doing. Set things in order leave a positive mark the world. You do make a difference and until next time. This is dave an echo and jaakko out.
3043: Ol' Needle Arms w/ Clint Nohr
"Hey. Welcome to Keith. And the girl I'm Keith manning, Keith and the girl dot com slash tickets, April thirteenth fourteenth and fifteenth show after show after show, my stand up show Kenda hosting silent trailers live, you can't say that live the launch party. My goodness ended. It's almost too much. It's gonna people are flying in. No from Germany from England is it's it's on social media use hashtag k g week. So that we can all explore together and see who's coming. The tickets are on sale keeping the goal dot com slash tickets. And until Friday of this week and get an extra twenty percents off even to the early bird prices. So you gotta get it. Now keeping the goal that complex tickets. Stand up is the most is the most timely stand up of any performer because you write it five minutes before marauding are. Right now, as we speak send in your jokes. And we'll get her done. All right. Ladies and gentlemen. Today's guest feature on the Bob and Tom show performed Boston comedy festival. Fox's laugh Stevie the roommate of Paul Hooper Clinton or are you doing Clinton? How you doing? Hello. It's good to see. He looked a little surprised at all of your credits except for being roommates with Paul Hooper's at the only one we got right? Don't they're all. They're all correct. I mean, they're all sort of. Yeah. Then being old is your fault that is my together. So that's the most current one. The roommate. Verify is happening. Where are you? From also sells South Carolina, South Carolina, moved North Carolina in high school. Okay. And you moved to New York about three years ago. Yep. Became roommates with Paul. Yes. You knew Paul from the Carolinas, Nepal. Yep. Okay. Paul, of course, has been sober for ten years or a little over as you guys. Spend time drinking together a lot are you income and coke or various yet everything heroin? I well, that's my sort of thing. I sort of split off from the group. That's not one the, but wait you split off when they started doing here started doing here when they kind of sprawl out. That happened early. But. Yeah. No. We he, and I definitely there's a whole group of us yet are these sniffing or shooting up. Why again, there's some of this specific to me as I don't want to. But let's talk about your heroin usage. What was the first time? My first. Actually, no, all I sorta remember L. Let me mention this. Clint Matt your website right now Clinton, nor NO HR dot com. Read that Allah, please. Yeah. Did he write quote, I'm an open book in there? The middle. So we can make you feel better before were talking about this. You don't do heroin anymore? I don't do heroin. That's kids. Spoiler alert. He doesn't do it anymore. Yes. Fine. Let's talk about when you did salute. All right. What made you try it for the first time and was your your good buddy, Paul already sober because. That's no, no, no, definitely not. There was crossover there. Okay. I started. I started with cocaine, okay? Inject cocaine in voting. Oh, fun. What sure I mean when you're. Have you heard of cocaine? Have you heard of word? Ten years. So, but yeah, I started with I did this remember I injected cocaine for the first time the first week I did step up which bad career move from beginning adult now, I kinda think like, you know, at the beginning of your comedy, career shoots and stuff. You know, otherwise, you're boring. What age twenty one twenty one twenty one. Okay. Yeah. Time right. I didn't go to college. So sort of when you millionaire parents, right? How you supposed to write? Also, what are you waiting until you're forty five to try heroin Twenty-one? Right. If you're gonna piss away a decade. I guess that's right. Yeah. That's the one you supposed to piss away. Here we go. So you were injecting cocaine injecting cocaine had sex on cocaine snorting it. It's amazing is is injecting different kind of sexy. It's still sexy. No, I wouldn't think. So right. Sexy. Then no, I don't know. I'm not saying like, you know, you're you're doing a one man show and people are getting off in the audience. But I'm like, do you get the high in your head where I can't quit touching bodies? No, no, almost any sort of became separate for me. Like, I got so into drugs that everything else sort of secondary. Okay. So. You know, actually, I did go through a relationship that was kinda hot. Okay. Just spend a summer in my bedroom. Yeah. Yeah. Sort of that's right. Like when one of you doing it is exhausting. Yeah. Just like you wanna stay up a little longer. No sweetheart, which. Yeah. You did find it sexy. You both would shoot up and then affects that was at the very beginning very very beginning. But then it gets progresses. The point. I'm not I can't fund. This is all about me at some point the drugs and stuff and. Yeah, that was the preferred thing so is more like a financial thing. You can't fund it. Right, right. That's I. Yeah. Yeah. I don't remember wanting to invite strangers see this personality. But yeah, for me drugs became very, I lady. Does. Right. It's it's not. I mean, it starts a party drug. But then it progressively gets into I need this. I want this. I don't wanna share it. Absolutely. And then everything else is secondary this making you feel uncomfortable. No, no, more than any new news -ocial situation. I look just tell I. Is this how you're like on a first date year? Yeah. Yeah. Okay. I don't know there's residual effects from like all I don't probably. But yeah, I'm always a little bit. When's the last finish the sentence? When what what makes you finally say, hey, I'm my bottom. I got a because you've been sober. How long now six years, and that's a long time. Yeah. I mean, I was completely out of options. One absolutely financially. I don't know if a lot of people admit that right? But yeah, there was no didn't start stealing because I think that's where people go I still here and there, but I was never a good thief. It wasn't a little bit. What did you steal 'cause I've stolen like there's some stores that you can steal from. But I don't know that it'll get you cocaine like, I don't know, you know, the the nice cheese box from Staples can be traded in for like a good shot of. I would I would still Libya law Flynn's makeup pallet twenty dollars. So so was about money, and then you quit. But eventually you get some money. Yeah. And you can lease the score once or twice. What makes you? How do you know? Hey, don. Yeah. I mean, everything was just a it was it was clear to me that it was over. Okay. And then I also I had not been doing stand up for a while in what you at work anywhere here. And there, you know, day labor. So you were you making just enough as a day laborer to like get your fix and then keep going? Oh, yeah. Yeah. Yeah. It's part of you like, I should tell the story. It's fun. Like, we tell our stories where comedians, you know. Thank god. I have these stories, otherwise, what am I doing with myself? I was just mentioning this. I've never actually told a bunch of these once told. The the whole story really or you don't really sentence out. Right. Do you have track marks anything like Elia big time? I had a lot of abscesses. So they were these are all sort of. We're like drained by a lot of bad was on that side where they like for medically. Okay. Like I had to go to the emergency room. And then they would cut into it drain. The it give you a look like dude again. Yeah. They were surprisingly polite about it a lot. I always expect more judgment. The one time I had one removed. My foot is pretty gross. So what you would start shooting up in your foot. Yeah. And it abscess would grow. Yeah. I remember. There was a terrible smell in the navy room in the nurse. Just came up to me. And she goes, you know, that's death, by the way, that's the smell of that is. That's right foot running. I remember being in an alanon room in the first like three to five times, I was crying. And I finally spoke and one of the guys like there's always like, you know, some some blue collar of New York guy, and he's a he's like a what they call a double winner. So he's also in a and me sitting in an alanon meeting. And you get the best fucking chairs from those guys because they know it from the other side, and he goes, I swear to God. I couldn't believe it. He goes, a, you know, sometimes they just die like in respond for me. My brother toe tag said died of alcoholism, my father my to own goals. Sometimes they just fucking die. Cool, bro. I'm gonna stop crying. Now. What makes you when you go to shoot into your foot? You think moms get into ridiculous or a vein really can't pick it up anymore, which I did it for many many years. Clearly, I never got good at it. Right. Then isn't places where. I I had access to syringe that was never like. I was bad about getting new. So you're all of it. Right. Sages all dull and you'll try and I've small veins, and then so really that's what I always tell people do when I stop. I was like, well, my arms around it was like part of just infections and was the weirdest place shot into all all just arms legs. I think I've tried to find a vein like that the. Yeah. Have you ever shot it in your dick? No, no never faced. Yeah. Wow. Because the neck has good, right? That feel well relieved because everything else was spent by that. Okay. Yeah. See you're like finally. Yeah. Yeah. Right. I didn't waste this forty bucks. Why did you were you in the habit of calling anyone involving anyone while you were high? Never. No, no, no. That's what a lot of. It is not very it was not social at all like me hiding in a bathroom, but you still affected someone who did you affect the most wouldn't you think like a parent like who had to Bill you out who had to keep giving you money or support mentally. Yes. Definitely the parents. I mean, like, I don't remember them coming off with too much money. There was I'm sure a lot of manipulation would I had a girlfriend sort of throughout my twenties. Isn't that fun that you still have to have a girlfriend? It was fun for me. Yeah. Isn't that amazing exhausted? I'm out here. Like would if nobody likes me. I mean, we don't really some co dependence issue. I don't know I feel bad. She was actually in veterinary school in Mississippi. You. One joke. There is something unthinking of if you guys remember me talking about gusts. My roommate did cope and walk around his his girlfriend worked as a veteran. There's there's something to it like wanting the take care of. Yes. Yes. The the alcoholics and narcotics people always find the alanon ex. Yeah. A lot of fun together. We do connect. Yeah. Fund with Mary. Now took a natural thing. Yeah. Yeah. When you so on and off your with this girl. Okay. And we'll go back. Don't don't don't fret afterwards. You get sober yet. You still spend some time together. No not. Well. Yes, I'm sorry. We spent one year after I got sober trying to work it out. I guess and that doesn't interest her no dynamic changes. I'm sure we've talked isn't that the kicker. Yes. Like oh. You thought there was something else? I was hiding. There's not. Yeah. That's like when someone loses weight and everyone pretty she just lost weight and on friends. They had this like turns out she wasn't pretty after he lost the way. We're going to I'm sort of independent at that point. And I don't know. Nobody's used to that. Like, certainly not her, right? Cmih. Just what do you think? You think he has got boring. Maybe I mean, I want sure there was that to me again we were on and off then maybe she expected you to be something that you weren't after you are silver. So like, maybe you'd be a super nice guy who gets her the flowers on the right day. And then even sober. You couldn't do that could be absolutely. And I'm still first couple years sober. I'm still not even doubt. So I'm sure it was a nightmare. You sound study. Really this. No. Humor's gone Jesse. Joyce was a big whiskey drinker, keys sober, of course. And he enjoys a red bull things like this because he likes to feel the burn is there. Something people that shot up can do that they can shoot up water. Shoot around. Oh, really? Yeah. There's more people that are active in that. Do it just to see the blood drawback. Get off on that some out. Do your arms heart. Are they painful now years later now they're scoring though? I've had Ivy. Biotic before. Okay. And that was like sort of nightmare. I'll get through. Yeah. I also have broken off needles in. Twelve years. Fun. So quickly. I completed that sentence. Did you finish all your sentences? That is how many do you think to to one time three wolverine to now? Currently I've had an X Rayed reasonably two in one arm. There was one another that worked its way out over time like a year or two, and then I just gonna wiggled it for that account popped out. And it's not the interest like a bullet being left in you. Apparently, I've asked about this apparently not barely. I'm okay for now doing airport. I was willing to to fried. I threw it hasn't come up yet. I would love to have that talk at TSA go. Hey, two thousand six party. Let's go airport together. I'll be Halili. Yeah. And you'll be you with metal in your arm. We're not making let's race. Yeah. Exactly. Getting patted down. You're sitting everything off interesting. World we live in. Wow. When you being a comedian? Of course, the people that are messes. And of course, you see people that are abusing things the is it ever your place, the something I don't have that certain personnel. I don't know. I am not as I don't know. I I'm not confrontational enough for I'm not I care about able. But there's only been a couple of times where I think, and I know have you ever accepted, a confrontation and like fucking nail did. But gotten someone's face got the thing you needed shutdown situation. Moved fuck on put your cigarette out. She's has have you ever been crumbling, right? Is have you ever stood up in a man a lot? I can't say I where I actually like, no. I just come up going. Yeah. Stepped up when it needed to be done. And then walked out of it with my health. I can't think of one if maybe if I spoke to your ex girlfriends, your what would they have in common to say about you? Is this silver or not? Right now if I three or four axes. Yes. Still high strung. Yeah. For sure pie hang out with your fucking both high strung attitudes. Yeah. Yeah. You don't drive each other crazy sort of like sit there and worry, you know? Yeah. Committed a team sport. So it's almost like a quiet. Very gentle mild is and you just want to look at it. Everybody else. Do they not see this? What do you think you're seeing that other people aren't saying? I don't know. I'm just I get free spoke by. Do you feel in this room? Can you get in touch with a feeling how do I feel right now is sort? I've still I don't know. I just I meeting still it's my went default motives to be defensive. I guess but in what did Paul say to prepare? He said, you guys were a lot of fun. Okay. How they really count you'll have fun. That's fun. Okay. Yeah. What you say that child when he's crying doesn't want to go to camp. That's probably what pushed me literally into this building. Can I ask you you've gone through the twelve steps that kind of thing? What's the policy step? Have you done that? Yeah. Is that that's the toughest one. Right. Yeah. Who do you say you're sorry too? Actually, I'm still waiting. Finds out somebody out of problem. She wants to. What did you do to the earth? No. Yeah. There's only a few that I really cause some of you. You don't you're not supposed to contact. I mean, you've done so much damage that the best thing is just like leave it alone. Yeah. What ten minority you you get in touch with them unless getting it's not the right to unless getting in touch with them would make it worse for them more. Yeah. By always making more. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I believe I don't wanna hear from anybody. Why would they want to the hardest one probably was to the ex girlfriend? And I don't know what even I put. I think it was it was a card 'cause I she didn't wanna hear them, sir. Text message or Vogel for me. Right. I'll basically I've I've gotten the mass mail from somebody. And it's and it said, I would like to apologize for anything. I've ever done wrong. And I'm like. This joke now serious. Could do that. Amazing. You can't do that. Oh, this is great. Just empty lines. You fill it out fall at the wagon just to go through that option. Yeah. That was Duff for sure do are you better at dating now. Or when you're high. I guess. Maybe not. I don't know maybe a little bit more confident now. But now. What I hear lot of a lot of people dating. And I am surprised by the number of people that on a first date, the the man or woman, and by that I mean the man sneaks off does cocaine obviously in the bathroom thinking, nobody knows. Would you do that? And what's going on out there? And what do you think nobody knows? Yeah. I don't know how those people that really. I think cocaine affects them in the way, it was meant to in that that does make them confident or chatty or something like that. I was never flipped really quickly for me. Whereas completely sort of collapsed myself and not want to talk to anybody. So it would be a nightmare that situation booze maybe Pol ever gotten into fight. Can't even imagine it. Now, not physical fighting now shouting match. Yeah. Over what shout now, I don't think I can go through through tweets and figure it out on here. All online in public toughest part of living with Paul Hooper that he keeps trying to show. You Dacre is asks now, no. What we have this unique it all the time. Yeah. We have we we have a roommate. That's really nice lady. So she's not a comic or anything. Yeah. It's made everything sort of its level house out. It's it's actually really nice now same age limit older than us. Okay. She's dogs, quiet. See they have to behave. Yeah. Yeah. Keeps us inject. It's good travel together right travel. Well together. Is that true? Yeah. Yeah. We always did. I think so now we did even drunk and sober. We. If you're gay would probably the guy was like tuna Roddick it's like, that's just me. I guess on paper. But I don't know. There's no way to know. Isn't that the kicker you're never gonna know? It's convenient the use the apps for data. And are you good at it? It seems to me when I all the answers are there too good at it. You'd feel it the no to scroll, and they tell you. I liked I like to go. Here's the movies. I like so you do go to a movie like that. Here's the candy. I like you buy it. I'm good at that. On your good that now the know for sure not okay now. I does nobody read what they right? So what's happening now? Yeah. I know. And I try to be funny in that can miss because you don't know the person, they don't know you. Yeah. I was your last day. A couple of weeks ago. Yeah. She to show a little remorse. Yeah. Right. Which is a real. I always say that. I don't want that. Right. But I have to pretend like I don't want that. But that's yeah, absolutely ideal. Because that's where you're more comfortable. Absolutely. Right. Already. Have your words picked out year. She knows your funny. She knows your sense of humor. She can't take anything that. Or if she doesn't find you funny. That's the date. Did you stick? Yeah. Yeah. Nice protective shield. You got. It's not bad. Right. Yeah. What you do have to sort of pretend? Like, that's not what you want a whole. Shit. But I mean, the good news is yes, you can have your drink tickets. The band. Is you do plan all your words out on stage? Right now, you're yourself at a table not as clever naturally. There's a certain energy though, coming off stage. Whether even if it was a mediocre show or bed show. But there's still I feel better. Okay. Off that. Whereas now I can. Yeah. There's something about like I'll be starting to date. And I'm just like, wow. There's people who've heard me for years and years talk. And isn't that weird? You already know so much about me. I'm like who gives a shit. No. That's good. They're like I don't have to explain that. I'm going to be a big mouth. He's now. But yeah, I feel like it's helpful. That's what I in a nutshell. What I am eight minutes. The right, right. Here's like me like my bio sort of. Yeah. This is what I'm about. This is the kind of jokester I Don the talking now. So here. You're thirty seven said, I don't remember less had a roommate. But are you able to hear I didn't mean as a put down? I'm just trying to think be having a guy living with me. The you know, when you're when you're buddies jerking off. Right. I assume. Oh, wow. I never knew when my no no really still thinking about that. Okay. I don't know. But can you anytime there's a door shut? Yeah. We're jerking off. And it's like being a parent in the kids are quiet going on. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Right. Yeah. Music for why? When I first moved to that apartment. There's two other play a two minute song. They know. I know I told them to I made the mistake of omitting onstage. And then they heard it. This. Unassuming music, right. Then I said it all now, they know you listen to certain podcasts. Clearly, Harris when we go group campaigns. I bring my vibrator, but the night gets. Yeah. Yeah. You gotta get shit done at night. Everything gets quiet. I don't want people suddenly hearing, a buzz. But if all of a sudden at two in the morning, I start playing the song that's gonna sound. So I don't know. Wow. How long are these camping trips three days? Wow. Wow. What are we surprised by numbers? They throw me the whole numbers every number. No. Not being self conscious about that. But not not waiting three days. I'm going to regardless bring it matter. What I play the song Keith gonna ask me jerk off last night. Oh together. I feel like you guys. Now with you guys because you guys know each other. Well, Keith, I don't know. That's politic off ochre. Yeah. I see why these apps aren't working, right? John though, somebody wait me bringing vibrator to camping means that I'm comfortable in after off in front of keys with some simple math for you. Senate really play the certain now. All right. She did seem a little out there. Right. Let little forward. So sure, you're just guessing. In three days if you were camping for three days, you wouldn't turn off. Minds very silent. His his penis doesn't have a report. Yeah. The difference. You do it. Yeah. You gotta get it done does. And this is these ridiculous sexual things. Then looks at us like we're where those okay, I was wondering I did. I do something offensive. And I got that. I really ask anything crazy. Those better head off the wall. I did. It was talking about Turkey Nov surprise. You asked him if he can hear his roommate Paul Hooper who we know answering the dick of can you hear him masturbating? And then I said sometimes I'm self conscious about me, getting hard masturbating and Clint lost goddamn mind nearly fell off his chair. But I think we worked it out and everyone's fine. Yeah. Six. What do you like having sex? I haven't heard him. I just heard the activity more. I want to know if he's loud party, don't see different stuff when. Okay, now, I don't know. I don't I've seen dick can I not ask if he's loud during sex. He just brought up. I heard him having sex. Follow up question to high heard Paul Hooper. What am I loud to talk about after somebody tells me that they heard Paul Hooper having sex? Can I go? What's that? Like, it's the tone. Right. It's probably the. Fuck everyone's allowed to talk about fucking. But me, yes. Yes. She pushes. It doesn't God down Christ. Don't turn Clint more red than he already. Today's a great day for the poll that can the wanted who do you agree as more in general? Everyone's gonna think I'm saying the word Clint because Quintas here. Have you ever heard? Now have you gotten that as a kid Clint Clint doors? Oh. What is the main thing? Earlier. Clint Taurus clitorises, the oh. Really like an eight year old boy. It was like they're saying dinosaurs. You are you in your parents, still close with everything that's gone on? Yeah. Somehow. Yeah. Close in a way that we don't. We don't talk a lot here in their base. But they they're doing their own thing. Close like everyone in the south is close. Like, I not released bless your heart. Don't talk about come for Christmas. No, nothing like that. I don't even know we don't do Christmases together. We haven't done that in a while. You know, I'm gonna dull nearly kid child. So I don't know they in a place. Now, they have like very little so reception, Wendy, so. I sell on hold on. That means they have a landline. They had a land line up until honestly they just sold their house of thirty five years in January the move the mountains. Okay. They have two cellphones. I don't know they not use them. But they don't know they have service. If your parents know, how to pick up the phone. I mean, they can call. I don't know how well they can use. Yeah. We don't it's not that. We don't give it up there and dating apps. I could be I I don't cool. I wonder if they're making this up. They don't ever call me. In fact, it is always around. There's a phone in the mountains. Spy movie. When was the last time you saw a saw them in February. But that's just passing through. And I didn't do anything for Christmas or hadn't been in holiday mental. Is it? No, not do you like it that way. Yeah. I like words right now. That's nice. Yeah. Yeah. I think some people would try for more just because he was supposed to blah, blah, blah. But hey, if that's what you like. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Right. Do you tell do tell when he roommates ham bringing a lady over tonight? Don't don't don't say. Hi, don't interrupt. I would have I had roommates, of course. And sometimes I had roommates that would. Knock on the door to say hi to the woman and high about our relationship, you know, sometimes it's a one night stand. What are you doing getting involved? Yeah. Never that. No. And it's never that planned out, unfortunately. So okay. No one knows how to react. I mean, that's very. Like, you don't walk in with a woman in Poku. There in the corner. Go what's that like? Warn. You warn a woman that you ever met. She just just say even at you act. Like, it's a knock you my act. Yeah. I mean, I'm not. Yeah. This she knows. Okay, after I would picture this though. After doing stand up, you gotta be curious what the girl watching you a first date with think, right or no because comics aren't secure I assume you loved it or go like I would not feel comfortable if they would like that was good. I'm like little part was good. We'll like did you laugh, but you can't see needy. So I apologize immediately. And I don't I don't even know what four specific. That's sounds like joking. I believe somewhere in ten minutes. I go is probably something hated. And so yeah, that's my. That's I apologize. Anyway. Soon as I meet some money. This is what I am. I really when's the last time you cried teething late today's Tuesday like real deal crying. I don't know. I think it's been years. Right. What's not deal? Crying. Like a commercial? Yes. Yeah. Story. Four trailer actually coming off the drugs for sure something like that coming off the opiates for sure I think I cried I cried watching women's soccer women's soccer. Well, I mean, just with the commercial they do stuff. Very touch really pull the string. Cray time that I was. Have kids. Am I going to okay? Not know this planning to do what do you need kids for right, right? Yeah. And then what then you gotta go live with them. Is right. Never been on the radar for showing never been is it you got to teach them with the world is like, I don't know. Yeah. That's not as good point of view. Now. No, do you. Do you have to wear long sleeves d wear long sleeves even in the summer? Now. Okay now, but I do live out. Sometimes what they go. Hi. How are you? And you say I'm okay fell down the ski slope. Yes. Yes. Exactly. If somebody asks what happened that I do for sure depending on how what you go to. That car wreck car ended up making sense doesn't make any you make yourself a hero. Like, you also say people from harm should good. I mean, I haven't I haven't developed a story. But I should like if you told me throw if you told me drugs, I I would be like, okay. And that probably be the end of it because I can hear the tone in your voice. But if you tell me car wreck there's nothing wrong with me saying what kind and ask him for details. That doesn't happen the follow up. Yeah. I think I offer up some sort of loose description because there was a car wreck that nothing to do in. My I was on the news. Now people look up car wreck. They will find one. That's the right, traffic and weather the hands are claimed. Yeah. Yeah. What happened here? I'm snowstorm. Okay. Roge- our? What have you said as a follow up like what happened to your car? I've made him 'cause I don't know. I'm so dumb trying to come up with something medically the skin grant. I just toss out hoping you'll accept it and just move on. And then he meets the nurse. It's like, yeah. Skin, graphs. You look at the arms like fucking. This off. Yeah. Yeah. I bet happened to me very many times where somebody like just met is like what the fuck avenue your arms. I don't think who says that I actually noticed I have scarred down my chest because I had open heart surgery, and I noticed some people very faint at this point. But I noticed some people staring at it. And I'm like, I had open heart surgery. Oh, just like if they weren't looking like, it's okay. I got that. There's a scar going down like the center of my body. But yeah, it is hard for people to ask people. Try to make are more comfortable. She's like, no, no your tits. About that empty space. For your store, right? Attention, by the way, you're in the March men this competition at Caroline's where it's comedian against comedian against commute to find out. Who is the best right now. Is that nerve wracking? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Some of the best argument like knocked up is that that's so that feels good when you got that for you're like, yeah. It is a joke. Right. You lose. And then, of course, Joan serious, absolutely any contest. It's bullshit until doing. Well. You know, this one's actually kind of prestigious, right? Right. So the two people go up I've seen Andrea doing and she was great to people go up on stage. And then the audience claps for one one goes home. Louis ah. What's that like going back stage, the two will you like, hey, hey, we're friends. Yeah. It's all your colleagues. Yeah. It is a little bit. It is weird. And then it's audience voting. So they most of them just aren't you know, what is the word? They. The ethic. They're not they don't maybe know, technically. I don't know. They have been there in the audience. Like, you said when Andrea fucking knocked it out the park, and sometimes those claps unlike whoever judged what clap was the loudest they can't hear. Yes. Yes. So sometimes it's it's close like that. And it's weird and it's judged wrong. But and it's hard to say, hey, who's the referees hair from the WWE? Exactly, you gotta just go with them. Right. Right. Exactly. What you call people in the stands to make right did Paul compete this year. That would be exciting. Right. That tension in the apartment you. I'd like to see him trying to criminal those words in one minute round. Round one minute says hi a miserable. Yeah. No that was Paula good happy drunk addict. Or? Yes. And I yeah, I guess we'll see an instigator. I remember hanging out with him. And he would he'd be like, hey, let me this is what I still drank. And he's like let me buy some shots and tear that TV off the. Yeah. I don't remember like a financial offer anything. Benefactors? Invested so much to the bit. But no, yeah. I don't know he's on the angry or side. Right. Right. And but also fun. I guess what? He's he's just bored. All done is like all right. So this is what happens. I just want something EC. I don't know if you follow this tweet you talk to them. So that's enough. He does seem to walk around hating everything. Yes. Saint patrick's. They hate it. Right. And then he said, yeah. That's the beginning end of the whole story. Yes. He that angry. And is that is that some negative energy in that apartment? Well, because we were really in total agreement about this stuff, parades and whatever else. Yeah. Drinking holidays, especially maybe because we are sober right? So we both Ghana. Finally, we're both sort of irritable. When we see a party on debt Mars four AM, and it doesn't go to the Bahamas. Ever must be miserable. You guys. The only set sacks Mahama's. Broke. I know angry people. Some of that. I don't know was like in December this past year. I've done it before without a friend of mine, and that was miserable because completely alone in my own sort of. Okay. But this time at least we could talk to him, you know. Cocking teach tether. Yeah. Well, especially like we're in two different hotel rooms we're not on topic apartments and Paul ever play at the end of a day, low low. That's when you say the low point of the day and the lower. No, then you could sleep on that. No. It's an idea. It's you sure you could follow Clint online that Twitter account Clinton, nor and HR Instagram is the same at Clinton for the website where its anything goes. It's quote, nothing off limits, and you go to Kyle of it you go to Clinton or dot com. It's very nice mean, you mantha, forever me. Absolutely. Don't forget keeping the girl dot com slash tickets. It's coming up April who doesn't love April. Clint nobody month. That's right. It's your hot month. You feel you used to make a joke that hey, April for whatever reason I'm hot. And now you believe it. I'm a trap more attractive in a month year. How come what made you pick that month? It's weather related. The sun comes out, right? It's just about the first bit of sun that hits you for me. I'm like a flash fried type thing and then. I endorse a lot. So I'm not like a eating discussing within. It's all I got down to one thing. And I also don't launch it on April. First a lot of times, I'll call it last April eighteenth 'cause I'd moved to New York. Couple of years before. But yeah, I floating date, you know, people just movies when they want to. That's the same idea could lock because it's coming. It's coming. Yeah. I couldn't be more that take you. Thank you very much. We'll talk to you tomorrow. Dot com.
Amy Hooper /// Part 1 /// 294
"Welcome to true crime garage, wherever you are whatever you were doing thanks for listening. I'm your host Nick in with me as always a guy that thinks my existence is a nuisance. He is the captain. I'm the host with the most is it's good to be seen in his good to see you. Thanks for listening. And it's for telling your mother. This week in the fridge. We have a high. Oh stout by our good friends over at the Columbus brewing company. I was drinking some great Columbus brewing company beers at the clippers baseball game. So we had to put them back on the show garage grade four and a quarter bottle caps out of five and today. We are drinking with our good friends. I up a raise of the glass to Mandy and Peachtree city Georgia and the big shot up a need us in Chicago. Here's one to Mandy and Saskatoon Saskatchewan. She's asking if the captain could send her one of his hoodies, I'm guessing it's still cold up there. I would send one but my hoodie smell like tears desperation and a big we like you to Sally and blue bell, Pennsylvania. Here's a big cheers to Doreen in Belgium. She told me to roll the are like to Belgium. I think I would be welcomed there and last but not least a shout to kaitlin and Tiverton Rhode Island. Thanks everybody for helping us out with. This week shows if you want to help us out with next week's go to true crime garage dot com and click on the donate button. We restocked a lot of stuff in the website stores to go to true crime garage dot com. Click on the store page and check out the new stuff, and I should be launching. We have some stickers launching hopefully, this week's I've seen the, stickers shutters. Fantastic. We got a couple more designs coming in the next couple of weeks as well. So that's enough on the business. All right. Everybody gathered around grabbed share grab a beer. Let's talk some true crime. The website, Ohio attorney, general dot gov contains many resources one resource on their the boasts saddens me and angers me is a list of cold case homicides all taking place in my home state. The great state of Ohio. You can browse this list by searching specific name or do as I have many times start at the beginning and go in chronological order. Through the years. Many cases on their have caught my eye several of them. I have personally looked into hunting down old newspaper articles sifting through online message boards looking for not only information but theories and suspects. After all, this is my home state where my family and friends live, according to this list killers or walking amongst us. One of the cases that caught my eye was that of a young woman killed at home alone in her apartment. The case was initially of interest to me because I noticed that. I once lived in the neighborhood in which she was killed. On the government website this case number seventeen the victim's name, Amy Hooper. This was just one of many cases that for me stop being just a number on some list and became a name on a file folder. However, I am slightly ashamed to say that the file ended up on a shelf in my office collecting dust. Later through conversations, I learned of an even closer connection, I had to the unsolved murder case, my mother and Amy's mother taught at the same school. My father followed the case in the papers and on TV. Not too long ago. I was busy cleaning out the old office and sifting through some old case files. Some that we have covered here on true crime garage, and others that we hope to. I found Amy's folder flip through it. And looked at her photo, the sadness and anger returned. And so I decided to revisit this case. Amy was only twenty years old when some savage took her life. She was very close with her family and had many friends. The motive for this cold blooded killing is not obvious in the killer remains hiding in the shadows this week, we take a look it just one of a high as many cold-case homicides. This is the case of Amy Hooper. Amy joy Hooper was one of three daughters. Born to parents, joy and Hollis Hooper. When Amy was born on November second nineteen seventy-one. Her sisters were quite a bit older. Holly was eight and sandy was ten so Amy was the baby of the family joy Hooper said that Amy was spoiled from all of the mothering and that her sisters treated her like a little baby doll. They actually took care of baby. Amy when their mother was ill for a time and was unable to do. So Amy was blonde with curly ringlets and Hazel is and as an adult. She was on the smaller side, she was maybe five foot three inches tall, the website that we discussed list her at one hundred and three pounds. But according to her family, she was quote about ninety pounds soaking wet the Hoopers lived in Columbus, and Amy attended Westland high school for a time, but Amy. Sisters, holly. And sandy tell us it, Amy and her mother joy clashed, a little when Amy was a teenager this for my understanding seems to be fairly normal for teenage girls, according to the family, some of this clashing had to do with a boyfriend whom the parents of viewed is abusive and Amy's mother joy was very concerned because Amy actually had been hit on two separate occasions by this boyfriend. Also, this boy's mother worked in the school cafeteria. And it sounds like she may have harassed Amy after Amy tried to break up with her son yet after Amy sophomore year at Wesleyan high school her parents are going to try to move her to get away from this douchebag well after being given a choice of where to live. She was offered the choice of living with either her aunt or her sister Amy decided to go out to California to live with her sister. Sandy, sandy moved out there in nineteen eighty two. The two sisters were very close despite. The ten year age difference between the two Amy did her junior year at high school in California and hung out with sandy and Sandy's boyfriend Ray, but after her junior year, Amy move back to Ohio and went to live with her aunt and a nearby town and graduated from a different high school. This would have been in nineteen eighty nine after graduating from high school, Amy moved back to Columbus and moved in with her mom, Hollis joy had very recently gone through a divorce. And although this was not acrimonious. It was a tough time for everyone Amy wanted to save money. So she could return to California to go to college. She loves fashion, and she looked for a job that would allow her to work in that industry. She got a job as a manager at a Wilsons leather store in the Westland mall, which many media reports refer to as Berman's leather because Berman's was bought out by Wilsons leather at some point. Well, she worked there for about six months a job that she reportedly loved, and she was very responsible never showing up late never missing a day of work. She also occasionally designed display windows for the Lazarus department store, she rode the bus. So she didn't have to spend money on a car one thing to know about Amy is that she'd loved animals and had a soft spot for anything furry at the time of her death. She had two cats that she had taken in articles about Amy state that she was very social had a lot of friends and was known to frequent a west side bar called coconuts. She also it has been reported dated black men almost exclusively like the abusive boyfriend from west on high school. This fact will become significant later also her family describes her as very trusting friendly. And although she was stubborn. She would stand her. Round when she needed to. Yeah. Now Amy's twenty and she's going to rent her own apartment. This starts on February seventeenth nineteen Ninety-two renting an apartment at forty nine forty to Medfield way in Lincoln village in Columbus. Now, even though this was an apartment, it wasn't a big high rise type building Amy's ground-floor apartment door opened into a grassy open area outside punctuated by a spider web of walkways leading between the various apartments and the street so to get to Amy's front door. Also had to do is walk up to it. There were no entrance ways gates outer doors or security measures whatsoever. These buildings were not quipped with security cameras Amy lease this apartment on her own but allowed a friend to move in with her rent-free. This is a woman whose name we don't know. But we do know that she had a small child the family isn't. Certain how Amy new this roommate? But her sister, sandy says Amy told them that she was going to let them live there. Really because she's just taking them in to help them Amy had a kind heart, and right and the woman in her baby really had nowhere to go. Who cares how they became friends at simply here's Amy she has a place. Here's a single mother. Hey, come stay with me for wall. Let's get you on your feet. It sounds like that maybe Amy tried to move this girl into her mom's house when she was still living there. But after a few days her mother was like, no, we're not having outsiders, come and freeload off of our family and just stay here. You know, this woman apparently didn't have a job at the time. Or at least that the family knew of so Amy rented the new apartment, and let her friend in the baby move in with her Amy in this room mate were really still getting settled at the time. Even Amy's mother had not visited the apartment yet because the women. Were still getting the place together, and they were actually lacking in the way of furniture at this time. Amy sister. Holly was also living in Columbus. But she was in a serious relationship with someone in Cleveland now on Friday, March sixth Holly plan to travel up to Cleveland to see her boyfriend. So she and Amy made some kind of arrangement where Amy would borrow Holly's car and take care of hollies dog for the weekend. It turns out that Amy one in the car. So that she could go up to see her boyfriend who was going to bowling green at the time. This was a young guy whose name we we won't use Holly did not want Amy driving, her vehicle all the way up to bowling green. So what happened is Amy borrowed her mother's car instead and left her sister's car with her mother for the weekend. Now, everybody has a car to use Amy did not tell her mother that she was planning on going to bowling green. And it seems that joy did not know about this boyfriend. She never met him. She only heard about him after Amy's death. And again, I'm going to bring up the fact that it's early nineties. So it's not like you have a lot of internet dating or a lot of ways of communication with some of these people that could be somebody. She went to high school with that went to bowling green for college or move there with their family knows on Monday, March ninth eighty sister Holly returned to town from her weekend in Cleveland, and she went straight to work Amy actually returned the night before from her weekend and went out with some unnamed friends the night before the plan. Amy was supposed to be Holly on Holly's lunch hour that day to return her car now when Amy failed to show up Holly called her apartment numerous times to no avail. We don't know whether she also called Amy's work, but she told us that she couldn't find Amy that day. It was later reported that by one pm Amy's, friends and. Oh workers started call each other looking for Amy meanwhile, Holly called her father, and he gave her a ride to Amy's new apartment. Holly had a key to her car and was hoping to be able to retrieve the vehicle she and her father knocked repeatedly on Amy's apartment door. But there was no response yet. But there were able to find her car. Yeah. Holly's car was in fact, still there and because she had the key. She was able to open the car door and then drive the vehicle back to her work Hollis also left at this time. Likely figuring that there had been some kind of mix up one thing. We have no information on is whether the police ever took a look at Holly's car, which we know Amy drove that morning. So we don't know if it was ever dusted for prince or examined for signs of a struggle or even things out of place. Now at this point Holly called her mom joy to see if she knew where Amy was she had a really bad feeling when she was able to locate her car at Amy's apartment, but Amy was nowhere to be found. Joy was a teacher, and she was in the classroom all day long. So it was hard for her to talk on the phone, but eventually around three thirty joy was gathering mail at the school where she worked and people from Amy's work started to contact her because joy was listed as Amy's emergency contact person Amy failed to show up for work. Then when joy was finally able to call Holly, joy told Holly that Amy had been to her house in grove city around six thirty that morning and returned her car and took Holly's car, the two chatted while joy put on her makeup getting ready for work, Amy told her mother at that time that there was a managers meeting that was scheduled for work that day later that morning, and she was supposed to be a part of this meeting from what I could tell from what I could find the managers meeting was to be around noon, or at least, that's what some reports say joy said Amy seem normal at this time when they were talking that morning and very happy that morning, so just a quick summarized version of that time line because there's a lot of moving pieces and parts here. Okay. So the general timeline is this Amy returns to Columbus Sunday night. We don't know what time she goes out with some friends early. Monday morning at six thirty AM. She's at her mother's house. Remember they have to switch out the vehicles. And so at six thirty she talks to her mother every everything seems normal and happy and good at that time. There's nothing strange going on with Amy she takes her sister's car and presumably goes straight to her apartment. Now where we are. Now is we have multiple people who have reached out to Amy's mother trying to get a hold of her because they're like we haven't seen Amy we have Amy sister. Holly who I found my vehicle Amy's apartment. But no, Amy. And now we have her work calling joy because she is the emergency contact listed on her information because they've not seen Amy either. She supposed to have been at a managers meeting that day and mind, you she's worked there for over six months and never missed a day of work. So this is raising all kinds of alarms. The you know, the red flags are going. Especially for joy on sometimes mothers, this no, well, she's already heard from one daughter, and she's heard from Amy's work, and she's saying as soon as this went down she knew right away that something bad had happened. Right. So joy Amy's mother asks Holly the sister to meet her at Amy's apartment. They wanted to go the rental office and ask it they had seen anything trying. They're still trying to find Amy and they called Amy's father to meet them. There's well. So once they arrive Hollis her father tries the door to Amy's apartment and found it locked they decided to go to the super office and ask them to open up the door. Now, joy, the mother had to be present in order for the super to open up the apartment door. He had to receive permission from a person listed on Amy's, lease documentation as a person who could actually authorise entry into Amy Hooper's apartment. So around four PM Amy's, dad and the. Super entered the apartment Holly enjoy state outside. Thank thank God. This is what Hollis in the super found, according to the newspaper reports upon entering the apartment. They would find Amy lying naked and bound face up on the hardwood floor of an upstairs room in her apartment. She had been beaten over the head suffering a cracked skull, which one early story in the Columbus dispatch described as a split and that she was stabbed in the neck and heart. Her hands were bound behind her with the nylon cord dangling from unique pendant tucked into her hands. And the police stated that they were unsure whether this belonged to Amy or if it was brought into the apartment by the killer. This was a wood and leather medallion a heart shaped painted with colors of red yellow and green glued to a black would circle. Is there any sign of sexual assault? There. Was according to the newspapers that is unclear. Now regarding this medallion at self the the newspapers asked if this could mean something even asking if the killer was making some kind of statement because Amy was dating an African American man or was this just something that was lying rabbi. But what does them Dalian's to do with an African American man? Well, mind, you the colors that were on there. We have red yellow green. So we have colors of the African flag. I would believe the right, or is it somebody that saw a white woman with the black man. And I wanted to make her pay for that. Correct. Ami? Is that what you're saying? That's what the papers were say. Okay. I want to be very clear about that. That's what the newspapers and nineteen ninety two where saying not what the Colonel is saying not in two thousand nineteen right? I'm simply reporting what was reported. So the question here regarding this this medallion, this, necklace, whatever you. To call. It is did this actually mean something to the killer. Bring this to the apartment with them. Or was it just something that was lying around that was found in Amy's apartment that the killer used to tie her up. Newspapers even suggested that this might be the key to the case. Police told the media the Amy may have been rendered helpless with her hands tied and then struck on the back of the head. The family has stated that the blow to the head is what in fact, killed Amy the stab wounds were all postmortem, and the family say that they were told that there were thirteen or fourteen stab wounds and all well, see to me that seems. Like that of passion rage. So more likely somebody she knew well, that's that's pretty spot on there by you, captain good job at a you. Because according to the detective's what they told the papers was whoever did this to Amy was harboring some kind of rage against her. Now, the knife that was used was found at the scene. That's always nice when they leave that behind for you. But the puzzling thing is the weapon that was used to bludgeon Amy on the head the blow that killed her was never found. So real quick before we move on regarding the knife. We know that it's found at the scene, although we've never been told no one could tell us if this was something that the killer brought to the scene or something that the killer found already in the apartment, we don't know if this knife belong to Amy or even the roommate right, but they believe those stab wounds were post mortem. So whereas this object that hit her on the head to split the skull. Well, they didn't find that at the scene. You know, unlike the knife, they did not find this weapon. And in fact, they according to investigators, they weren't really even certain what type of weapon was the only thing that they told the media was that they all they know is it was a sharp heavy object. So almost immediately after finding Amy's body investigators. They're searching alleys dumpsters garbage bins in the area. They're looking for. Of course, not only clues. But mainly looking for the sharp heavy object that killed her. Right. But they found nothing go even though that they found not then around her apartment to have anything else that we know more information about the scene of the crime. We do have some more detailed information here regarding the murder scene. We know that Hollis the father discovered the horrifying traumatic site of his daughter lying dead on the floor. The Franklin county sheriff's department they were called into investigate. They were the lead on this murder case the nine one one call came from Amy's family at four twenty one pm that day. Detectives were very quick to close off the scene, and they started their investigation immediately. Now the apartment door windows. Or really anything? Otherwise showed absolutely no signs of forced entry. There was also very little sign of a struggle and the apartment there was a phone cord now this was found to be ripped out of the wall. Police from what they could see at the scene surmise that Amy had taken a shower that morning bond. This kind of gives us some kind of a window of when the time of death would be. Yeah. And this is actually very important to our investigation here because what we have here captain is. We know that around four o'clock is when her father enters the apartment by four twenty one we have detectives on the scene, they've already blocked everything off. So regarding the time of death. We have a couple of indicators to tell us what that could be. We know she was at her mother's house at six thirty. And then she returned. We're presuming that she came straight to her party. Maybe she stopped off along the way. But what we do in fact know that once she returned to her apartment. She did take a shower, and we'll get into the details of this more. Why we know this to be absolute fact, this is not something where anybody needs to let us go. She could've taken a shower the night before or before she went to go pick up the car. Now, we have details at point out. The matter of fact, she took a shower after returning to her home. So what I'm getting at here with the window of time of of the frame of time that we need to be concerned with to find this offender is the narrow the narrow the time of death down to this. She returns home sometime after the shower and before the time that she had to be at work that day somebody killed Amy Hooper. No one really has time to go to the post office. You're busy. That's why you need Sam Satcom one of the most popular time saving tools for small businesses. And like, I've always said stamps dot com is a must for any small business owner stamps dot com. Brings all of the mazing services of the US postal service right to your computer. 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That's hellofresh dot com slash garage. Eighty enter promo code garage. Eighty for twenty dollars off your first four box. Right. Cheers. Cheers to you Camden. So regarding the time of death. This has never been publicly stated what the actual time was police publicly would only say that Amy had apparently been dead for several hours by the time. She was found what other information do we have from the scene of the crime. Well, there there were things at the scene captain that would give the appearance that she may have been getting ready to go to work at the time. When this attack went down, right? Okay. So she had a plastic pink carry all that held her makeup and hairbrushes. This was found lying open on the bedroom. Floor ready for use right? The she had an electric blanket on a pull out. So I remember we said that they had just moved in and they were kind of lacking in the area of actual furniture. Everybody knows this. When you go out move out of mom and dad's house for the first time. You realize I don't own anything, maybe the fifth time. Yeah. I don't own anything. So she was actually using a pull out so far at the time as her bed. So the pull out sue sofa still set up for for her bed, and she had an electric blanket on that which was still plugged in. At this time. Her hairdryer was plugged in as well. So here this paints a picture of this young woman who had returned home. We might even guess that. She may have taken a nap maybe went back to sleep for a little bit of time possible. But there are people that just leave things plugged in all the time. So that is a possibility and then decides to get up and start getting ready for work, and then somehow this attack happens. Right. So we know that she was found in the nude. There is some question. Was she did was she surprised? You know, was was she coming out of the shower when she was attacked or did the killer stripper because the shower part. And the Megan part makes me seem to me makes it seem like she's getting ready for work. And also, then it goes back to the idea that somebody knows her schedule because they would know when she would have to go to work or somebody watched her go into her apartment alone, right? Is another possibility so regarding this this whole situation of her getting ready for work? What we do know is this that this was not in the newspapers. But detectives specifically told her family that they believe that Amy may have opened the door and was in her robe at the time that she opened the door, and we don't know or have details as to why they would come to this conclusion or tell the family that what we do know is we? Have no signs of four anti. So that has to be a consideration. Did somebody simply knock on the door rang the doorbell, and she lets them in or opens the door and they forced their way in. Now. The other thing that I wonder about regarding the situation of telling the family that we believe she opened up the door was in her robe at that time, we know that she was found dead up stairs. Did they find the robe downstairs near the front door? You know, those are the questions that you wonder how they came to that conclusion, or at least why they're telling the family that now regarding the scene itself we have Chris Floyd. He was one of the deputy sheriffs. Who was he was actually the first officer on the scene, and he noted the position of Amy's body. And he says that he found it to be quite bizarre. He said, quote, she was displayed. It wasn't as if she fell that way. My first thought was this was to make a statement. It's hard to know what the reason why he believes this because we have asleep in see how she was displayed. So, but I'm guessing there's there's some kind of reason. Well, use the using just his words, I think what we can we can deduce from that is he is of the opinion that she was displayed that she didn't fall. Like that someone positioned her in that manner in his opinion. Right. But we also have possible postmortem wounds, and does that come into play of where she I assume that comes into the play of where she's going to be lane. If you're attacking the body after she's already dead. Well, let's talk about that medallion for while. Because so much has been made in the newspapers about that medallion. If you look up this case, unfortunately, there's not a lot of news coverage on this case, there's there's a handful of of good newspaper articles. I'll say that that word good newspaper articles. They're not great in a sense that some of the lengthier ones while they make for a good type of murder mystery if it were to be fictional. This is a true story and the truth of some of the stuff seems to be left out of the papers now in their defense. This may be information that they just don't know. Okay. So this medallion if you look up the Columbus dispatch news stories regarding this case, and I'm sure that there was probably one or. To that made their way through the Associated Press. But they time and time again asked the question is this medallion is this necklace, the key to the case because they're they're asking the obvious question. Here was this something that the killer brought to the scene with them used it to tie her up. And then either forgot about it was startled and had to leave the scene earlier than they want it to or left it there for any number of reasons the truth about that medallion is it's very likely not the key to this case at all because we know this. This is one thing that we know to be fact her sister, sandy her older sister. Remember that she lived with for a time in California. Oh, Cindy says to us the that medallion was not only not only did it belong to Amy. But I know that it belonged to her because I purchase this for her. Right. Sandy. Says she bought the what she called a roster far in themed medallion four Amy when the two attended a reggae festival in San Diego. When Amy was out in California with sandy. And then Furthermore, sandy went on to tell me that not only did she purchase this for her little sister. But she knew that Amy would often keep necklaces hanging on a this is how it was described him. Anyway, hanging on a from a lamp that was near her bed. I think this was up on a desk or table of some sort, and that all of them just kind of hung from this lamp, well, we know that Amy was founded in upstate bedroom. My thought is that this turns out to just be something handy that was already at the scene. We know this per her sister, sandy, and that the killer grabbed it and used it to tie Amy up, and then never felt the need to take it with them because it wasn't theirs in the first place. It had likely had no connection to the killer at all long. The fact that our sisters stories so detailed. Hey, I know where I bought this for my sister Graham, and then also a mixed idea of what the police are saying they think that she answers the door in a row or something like that when she's getting ready to go to work because maybe she had this in her hand or in the pocket of the Rover, whatever when she's getting ready because she was going to put it on well in the defense of the reporters, I think that this is really just a detail that has gotten lost somewhere along the way that's gotten lost between the investigation in the reporting of. Murder and the investigation because sandy was not question or spoken to until about two days after Amy was actually killed. Remember, she saw out in California. So she has to fly back. She wants to be with her family. And during that time is when she spoke with the investigators. So my guess is the way that this thing went down is that very early on the newspapers are given some details regarding the crime in the crime scene, right, which includes this medallion, or necklace, whatever you wanna call it. And they kind of ran with this idea. I don't know that this infor- information ever got to them that that is not the case that they don't have to question this medallion and it being in the apartment anymore because it was supposed to be there. Ryan a lot of times when people cover story again that just read an article, and then repeat a lot of that stuff. And then then you have another paper saying, hey, this medallion might have something to do. With the connection. You know? I buy more of our sister story that she bought it for her sister. Well, I I'm stating it as fact, I have no reason to believe that anything other than exactly what she said happened. So I was actually talking to a friend of mine regarding this case because this is a bit of a pet case of mine. You know, you talk about red light cases, this is this is one for me. And we were talking about this this medallion this necklace thing, and they asked me, well, why would the detectives on the case still continue to let the newspapers believed that this medallion might be a big key to solving the case in my answer is simply this one. The detectives don't that information to the newspapers they may be wanting to hold that information back, but then on top of that as detectives, they're just happy that somebody's reporting about this case because we talk about so many times that you need the public. Help. And if this case can stay somewhat in the public eye, even though it has not, you know, that's probably their hopes there. And I do want to point out something regarding this cases. Well, there have been a couple of detectives over the years that have worked this case, and I've not questioned their efforts. And I don't think anybody should I the from the detectives that I've spoke to and from retired individuals that I've spoke to there. There has been a lot of effort made on this case. This case is not cold four because of lack of effort on the investigation of this beyond has been the end of the early nineties was different time than now. And there was definitely more prejudiced and more racism going on and and more people being vocal about that. And so to have a twenty year old white girl dating. You know, pretty much all black guys. There could be some police officers on the case that are prejudiced or racist. But it really doesn't seem that way. In this case, it really seems like they were trying their best to solve this case for this family. Well, speaking of investigators, there was a Franklin county sheriff's detective Clark, he has been the one that is often cited in the newspapers when talking about Amy Hooper's case, and one thing one statement that he has made is that quote, there are a couple of significant things that only the killer would know, and quote, so one of these things might be the actual murder weapon because although the cops have told the press repeatedly, right? And even as recently as two thousand eleven that they didn't know what the bludgeoning weapon was. They did tell the family Amy Hooper's family at the time. Of the murder at first that it might have been a hammer. Now, we don't know if they're just guessing here that it could be a hammer, or if in fact, they did find the actual weapon and they're holding that information back, right? Because a lot of times when they're doing the autopsy they will go Kay here is the his the wound. There's maybe a puncture wound. What are we looking for what kind of object, and they might have a broad strokes of what that object is? But like, you said, the hammer could just be a guess. Yeah. And then they told the family that it looked like to them that Amy had run to her landline. Phone, okay. So this is kind of the full story of what investigators are working with the what the evidence is showing them is that this is some this is how this might have went down. Right. Did she answered the door in her robe? And then the killer either is welcomed into the home. Or forces their way into the apartment and then at some point Amy made a move for the landline phone possibly to call for help. They believed that the killer then grabbed the phone and hit her over the head with the actual phone. According to one family member, they were told that blood was found on the phone itself. Now. That doesn't have to mean that she was hit with the phone. We do know that the only really true sign of struggle. That was shown inside that apartment was the phone cord being ripped out of the wall. Right. And the fact that she dated a guy that was abusive to to her, you know, one where's his whereabouts? This day is is he around. I think that's something they need to look into. And also the men that she was dating was there any history of abuse with them, maybe not that she reported to the family or friends, but do they have any arrest by being abusive to somebody else that they did? And so now, you have those kind of suspects and then. We have our wanting to go to bowling green right to hang out with a friend. She she came back the day before. Yeah. Right. And so does she have somebody at home that she seeing that would be jealous of the fact that she went to go hang out with somebody in bowling green. So you're saying we should get to some possible suspects here, captain. Yeah. Yeah. I'm saying well, and I'm starting with the high school do Spag. Okay. Not a high school more. But the guy that she dated in high school. Well, let me finish up with the crime scene stuff first, and then we'll get to possible suspect. So one thing that the investigators are keeping mum on and won't even discuss with the family is whether Amy was sexually assaulted or not now later all these years later, we do know that DNA was found at the scene. We do know that that DNA does not belong to Amy. This has been publicly stated. We do not know the source of that DNA, but doing of its male or female well. I don't know shit. Well, here's here's where I'm gonna go with this. Okay. They've they've never said this publicly. Okay. We're we're we're basing our story off of what has been stated publicly throughout this. The course of this very long investigation. But what we can do for you is we can pick apart the pieces of this investigation and really tell you kind of what's going on with it based off of their actions. And we do this often when we look at these investigations, how do we know that DNA was found at the scene? Well, we know that because they've public publicly stated that they have cleared possible suspects when testing DNA, right, okay. The only suspects that they have publicly stated have been cleared by DNA testing are males. So where I'm going with this is I believe that they have. Knowledge that the DNA found at the scene that was not Amy's is that of a male that are offender is in fact, a man right because there could have been females that you would you would test right? Yeah. Yeah. So they must know that this DNA belongs to a man, and they have tested several individuals and cleared them based off of their DNA evidence. Well, can you start with the X the abusive far eating jerk store? Yes. So earlier we mentioned Amy's abusive boyfriend from when they attended Westland high school together. Well, get this. The the family says that they have reason to believe that this guy actually tried to follow Amy to California. Remember her parents suggest hey, you gotta get away from this guy. You can go move with your aunt who lives in another part of Ohio or you could go live with your adult sister. Out in California, she chooses California. What I've been told the family says we have reason to believe that this do try to follow her out to California. But from what we can recall for whatever reason he failed to do. So meaning he never caught up with Amy while she was in California. So then you wonder was he waiting for her when she returned to a high. Oh, yeah. Or did he hear about her returning and go, oh, she's back time time to go back to being a jerk store as far as the family is aware of? Amy Hooper's family. They say that they are not certain. They have no reason to believe that the two actually ever saw each other ever again after Amy moved out to California, even when she moved back. Right. But it certainly seems though that he was a good candidate for a suspect to be the murder given that he was violent and vindictive. But according to one of Amy's family members, it seems that he has been rolled out. Okay. I've been told by her family that this individual was not only ruled out, but he was cleared using DNA testing. Okay. So maybe they went Artem he said I had nothing to do with it. Here's my DNA, clear me. Yeah. I've not seen her in. God knows how long I will cooperate with your investigation. So where do they go to next the more recent boyfriend? Well, yeah, that is the obvious place. Oh, they probably may even went there before any of anybody else. So police honed in on her current boyfriend. Remember, this is somebody that the family was unaware of. He's a student at bowling green state university at the time and Amy spent the weekend with this boyfriend in bowling green. What we end up learning here is that he does speak to police, and he's very cooperative. He tells police that hey, I gave her a small diamond ring that very weekend the last weekend that I saw her. And in fact, it was still on her left hand when she died when police found her let's, but as we said Amy's mom didn't know about this boyfriend and Amy didn't show her that diamond ring when she came over that Monday morning the morning that she was killed. Yeah. Sometimes it's, you know, sometimes sensitive with your your parents. You don't wanna tell them you jumping into something too serious. You know? Give them a little time. Well, and I do want to remind you about something to is Amy's intentions, so Amy was very much wanting to be in the fashion industry. That's why she took that job. She she applied for that manager's job at the leather store bright, and she was working towards that. She was saving up for college. Her intention was to move back to California and attend school there. So I can totally see a situation where maybe this wasn't as serious for Amy as it was for the current boyfriend. Or maybe this is not something that you want to discuss with mom knowing that she plans to move out of state soon out is you don't want to get one of these long conversations with with one of your parents regarding what you're doing and how the order that you're choosing to do them in. I prefer to never talk to my parents about relationships sex or anything I mean or that I'm even alive. So the family does not know about the boyfriend. They didn't know about the ring at the time later, they did find out that he was not only a good student at bowling green. But he was also a football player regarding this boyfriend, though, he was cleared now as far as public knowledge goes what I could find in the newspapers, we don't know why or how that was never stated publicly other than he was cleared so much so that police have gone on in stated that he's not a suspect. Said he's not a suspect. This is happening Monday morning cracked. So wouldn't he be at school? Yes. I mean, they would have some record if he went to class. Well, have a lot of alibis because he's in class of thirty. Then he is thirty alibis and plus that's a it's a hefty drive. It's two and a half hour drive roughly. So that's five hours. You're going to be on the road. So I don't know. Well, we like he would be easy to clear. Yes. Well, one hundred percent, it's it's it would ease be easy to either put clear him or put him right on the suspect list. And so what I think we have here is it's early on in the investigation where they are stating they being law enforcement stating that he the current boyfriend is not a suspect am, I guess is that you're probably spot on here, captain that there are many people who are able to account for his whereabouts. During that window of time. And really that window of time only has to be from six thirty AM until four PM that day. Right. So less than a full day in if he's at school all day long. Well, then he's not a good candidate for a suspect. And what I've been told here is that it's believed that even at a later date. I want to point something out here. It's not like they find Amy's body. And then they're immediately plucking suspects in testing DNA and clearing people. This isn't happening rapidly. This is happening slowly over a long period of time. And we have him who very quickly is named as not a suspect from my understanding that even at a later date even much later after being named as not a suspect he provided DNA and they were able to. Lear him in that way. So there's absolutely no question in regards to the boyfriend that's doing your due diligence right there. When you go. Okay. We have alibis. We have cleared him. We don't think there's any way possible that he was even in Columbus at the time. But were still going to go back down that we have DNA and make this mother Succha take DNA test. Well, and that's why stated earlier that. I don't believe that this has not been solved because of a lack of effort. This is really them circling the wagons here in state, and you know, what we're going to double check everything we're going to double triple check everything until we get this thing salt. For all of our old episodes. Check us out on the Stitcher app. If you download this to trap all of our episodes are for free there. And also we have show weekly bonus show called off the record. That's a Stitcher premium show. Check that out. There's a link on our website, good true crime, garage dot com. Thanks everybody for joining us here today in the garage. We will see you right back here tomorrow until then be good be kind. Don't. Don't.
#123 Wendy Hooper Ross: Life After Loss
"It's cutting into your exercise time it stabbing you in the back nine and it's attacking your peace of mind. It's pain and it's getting in between you and the life few onto live CD medic. Target your pain at its source. It's fast acting relief with active. OTC ingredients plus the added benefits of THC free hemp oil get get back to your life with CBD medic available online and at CBS these statements have not been evaluated by the FDA. This product is not intended to diagnose treat cure or prevent any disease. Welcome everybody's time once again for the the next chapter with Charlie hedges as he explores turning the page on his life and yours. Hey Charlie early. Hey Paul it's nice to be back as my first day back from two weeks in Africa in which we will do another show on talking about the poorest of the poor people that live on one dollar to two dollars a day and and we provide water for them but the most of you know that and we'll talk more on but today I'm excited because we are privileged to have with us. Wendy Hooper Ross a successful for real estate agent and a residential market analyst that is an expert in her field but we're not going to talk about real estate today a we're going to talk about a subject. That's GonNa Affect. Most all of US Wendy's Wednesday. St- Wendy story will certainly resonate eight with us as we discuss loss grief and recovery now wendy met her future husband at an industry event in two thousand eleven and soon became incredibly close friends over the next years they finally admitted that they were made for each other there and began their romance in early two thousand seventeen soon after of though her husband's cancer which had been in remission mission for nearly three years came back and they went into a headlong battle together. It became clear in two thousand seventeen. He was losing his fight and then they were married and forty one days later he was gone. and Wendy writes. I lost my love and my dearest friend that day now a new life begins and today we are going to talk with Wendy about about loss about grief about recovery so wendy welcome to the next chapter with Charlie. Thank you Charlie. It's good to have you with as and you are certainly right now in the process of figuring out your next chapter. Aren't you absolutely yeah. I'm a work in progress progress. Well we are working. We all are working process but progress but you are yeah. I'm deep in it. I'm I'm deep reinventing. My personal self my life my business. Everything is touched by this. You know you're you're not left unscathed and you don't I in my opinion i. I don't think I'll ever be who I was before. How's that who were you before. And who will you become rather than then then answer that directly when I think of when you ask me the question is it's like a tree and a forest assessment scorched by a forest fire. It survives the fire. You know but decades later if you cut that tree down you're still going to see that dark ring where the fire had happened him there. It's forever changed it just becomes part of it and I think this type of grief and loss loss or any trauma becomes part of your DNA sort of and it colors who you are not necessarily positively or negatively but it just does and it becomes part of your nature you know and I think it's going to affect my decisions in my thoughts and my feelings in some capacity forever I think that's a brilliant analogy of escorts tree and we're going to talk about that in in and as as we proceed but I really liked that because it always is a part of you and never never ceases to be a part of the you grow. You move move on but you don't lose that party. We're GONNA talk about that more I wanted. I wanted to begin the show by talking about it's interesting how we met and that was a crazy story. We're both members at a business club called the center club and I prepare all my podcasts at the club every Wednesday so I'm there. I'm there a minimum of of weekly for three or four hours or or longer and after several months I noticed that you seem to be friends with everybody in the club. You're you were always talking to somebody different and so. I said to myself. This must be someone that I don't know who it is. So I- I boldly Woodley approach to you and introduce myself and ask who the hell are you anywhere colitis everybody now you and yeah and you know everybody in and you sit there and in and chat with him and and then you told me the story and after your story. I knew I had to have you on the show so so here we are and and I would like to you know I am typically known for. I don't have soft entries. I start right into the we start right into the nitty gritty you because that was the soft intro now now. We're sorry Wendy your relationship with Mick was intense and unusual and I am curious stew for you to talk about the relationship and also most interestingly why you decided to marry sorry when you knew he had little time remaining like forty one and that is that is the burning question. I get asked that a lot of I'm I'm sure so. Tell me about your relationship. I I think grand I I. It was a grand relationship and our friendship was epic. Nick and the reason that I think our marriage was so special was because we spent so many years just being friends we had no intention of you know having a romantic mantis whatever with each other 'cause we truly were friends and respected that we were in different relationships with other people so the whole artifice that comes when with men and women when they meet each each other and they know that they're single and then posturing begins and you worry about how you look and what you say there was none of that we were completely unclouded and unaffected and and very very real. We gave each other just massive amounts of grief. You know I was constantly giving him grief and he was constantly giving me are about what but he he he he started what he called Tuesday night and boys night out with some people he used to work with because he didn't lose touch with them. Because that's the kind of guy he was so I started grousing saying well. I want to go. I want to be one of the boys I can hang with the guys and they said Okay and you know they interviewed me for their group in the process and I became one of the the hazing process it was funny to men Hayes a women a woman in today's society thinking that group it was really more a matter of they would say things. He's trying to shock me. NFL turned crimson or something they would have rejected me but I just bandied it back to them. It's like Oh come on you. Can't you can't rock me. I'm good I got this. I'm what did what did you tell me at the table because we were using language that we don't normally use on the show but you said your. F- what I did. I say I speak F two. I speak speak to because I was using the F. Word and then I looked at you and I apologize you know I speak F- to realist carpet bomb somedays yeah. That's that's that's great so so your relationship really started as a French. what was the what was the changer. What what what made you do. I remember the moment remember the exact moment because Mick was one of my dearest friends. He worked in a field that was related to mind he was in real estate finance dance and ice old houses that we went together and I was introducing a few other people that were very close friends of mine. I was shocked. I had not introduced to one another other so I arranged a small get together really informal over at a local restaurant and bar and said I want you guys to come and meet each other because I adore all of you and respect what you do professionally and I'm remiss in you haven't met each other and I forty lane. I don't know somehow made a mistake and when I was texting the confirmation about where to meet and what time I included mic on that text chain he wasn't invited but he was one of my closest friends and he knew all these the four other people as well he had met them so he came along which was great. We're all they're having our drinks. Chatting the people that were introduced to another for the first time got along swimmingly as I knew they would and I sat back and I watched mic be uncharacteristic uncharacteristically not do like and he was relaxed didn't talk over anyone didn't have off to one up whatever anybody had said about their accomplishments and their business didn't have to interject anything at all but he would quietly get up grabbing empty drank and go to the bar refill it for them so that they wouldn't interphone interrupt the flow of what they were doing. He just slid into this role of CO hosting this get together with me without. I don't even think thinking about it. It just was naturally inherently who he was on a sat there looking at him and admiring what he was doing and for the first time in a very long time. I looked at him I I saw him. I looked at him as a man and I was like this man is beautiful and wonderful endear and smart and a lovely human being and he's single. What am I doing. What's the matter with me so I asked him out. No I did. I did good you really really I did or did you ask him to actually that that meeting that afternoon. I had to leave because I was on my way to have dinner with someone else and as I was getting into my car I I was thinking I don't WanNa go out with this clown out with Mick so I pulled out my phone and texted him right then and there and said I wanna go on a date with you and mind you. This is after you know six years of true friendship and he texted me right back and said you mean you want to go to dinner and I texted back. No I want to go on a date all caps with you. So what did you do radio silence five or six hours later. He finally texted me back and said okay. I'm in no amazing. He sounds like a very you know the way you're talking about him that he didn't you what what's and tried to interject in that so much to take to take over in that in in that conversation. He was a very secure man. He was so comfortable in his own skin. Yes that's a that's a term. We use a lot on the show is comfortable in in your own skin you would have liked and what is it what I would have loved. Him and part of the reason that I am so well known at the Club is because when Mick was well wasn't very long after we were together he would come to the club with me and everyone fell in love with him. He was just one of those people six foot four booming Ozzy Ozzie voice always laughing always smiling appreciated everyone. Everything isn't that typically ozzy just they are are. They are so fun yeah. They're just just just incredible to be with yeah and I. I shouldn't call him ause. He's actually American Eriksson but he's a military brat and because his father was a career air corps man who is in Korea and then Vietnam his mother mother took him and his sister to Australia where she had family so she wouldn't be alone raising them so he was an American. US citizen raised in Australia's he adopted adopted that culture you you know and that way of being but then when he was seventeen years old wanted to be like dad and came back to the US enlisted in the Marines and served the US as a marine because he had a very strong sense of right and wrong and doing your duty and doing right for others. It was just innately who he was so. It's like a wonderful man great guy he would have been I. I'm sad I didn't get an opportunity to meet him now now. Let's talk about this. This getting married carried when you know that it's not going to be a lifelong marriage. I'm a well long lasting right right right right very short time left well. There's there's two sides to this coin. I one of the dear friends I mentioned to you. That was in that get together. is one of my dearest friends as well and he's a trust and probate attorney and Mick and I had just bought a house together before we realized that he was terminally ill and our attorney friend said you know you need to get married. You really really do it. It's going to help you get through the probate madness and you're you're going to have enough grief to deal with that you don't we let's minimize as much as we can and make an. I talked about about it and and I decided if I couldn't have him at least I have his name yeah yeah and that and that is it's sort of it's sort of coalesced into even deeply in your relationship and and your commitment to one another and that it was formalize yeah yeah. It was amazing a dear friend of ours. Was it the way so we decided on Tuesday August East twenty eighth last year that we were GONNA get married. We went down and got the license and everything the next evening the twenty ninth we were remarried home and the next the next evening and the next day so we had about thirty six hours we told our friends look we're going to get married and so the next day friends came over and we had a ceremony that they could see and participate in even though we had been married the day before and a friend of mix livestream. Dr Wedding on Facebook so that makes sister and brother-in-law niece and cousins and whatnot around the world could see it and so all of our other friends couldn't be there. I was Eh Dinner Party last week with another attorney dear friend of mine she's lovely and I've a friend met through her and haven't seen in ages came running across threw. Me Threw her arms around me and whispered in my ear. I watched you get married. It was it's amazing. How many people were touched by that because he was so frail. By then he lost over one hundred pounds he was too weak to stand so we had chairs on our back deck and we sat there under the garlands that we had thrown up and the lights and got married in front of all of our friends he was barely able to speak because he had throat cancer and after the wedding and after we were financed as husband and wife he's chewed up and and you'll have to watch this video barely was able to. Croak the words out. I am so blessed to be surrounded by friends and family. Who Love me during the good times like this? The man was dying and couldn't help describe that day a good day. He must've loved you deeply. Hey Ted got got it son. I think having forty one days of marriage like that is better than having forty years of a bad one. Oh my goodness are you kidding. Forty years of a bad one is now it'd be hell that is bad yeah yeah yeah and and and forty one years of marriage marriage is difficult. You know you're going to have your wonderful times. Is your cat and you're going to have your times of you. Know conflict which is can you know can be years years after forty years. It was a little bit lucky. We didn't have time. Are you. Happy People you know obviously there was there is difficulty man he he became so ill just watching watching someone that you love suffer because it was in his throat so he could no longer swallow so he had a feeding tube installed in his stomach and all of his meds had to go in there and and the cancer was going up into his brain and we figured it was messing with his nervous utter so we couldn't manage his pain so even when he became inarticulate and he couldn't speak anymore couldn't communicate with me anymore. You could see basic see him. Writhing in pain and forty-one days was enough you you must've been such a great pleasure for him to forest whereas final days to be married to you and have someone that he's loved that that he loves and loves him in those final things. That's quite admirable. It taught me about how I want to be when I pass. Obviously we're all dying. We're all GONNA die and I hadn't spent any time really thinking about what I wanted to look like I didn't spend a lot of time thinking about what it needed to look like for mega too busy being in it and thank goodness as I look back. I don't have regrets I. I feel like I did the best I possibly could and I do think he had he most wanted and it wasn't just me. It was the dog my gosh. He may have married me for my dog. He I love that dog and that dog loves him. You know but there are many times when he was no longer conscious or coherent but he would read hand out and he would grab the dog's paw and he would hold the dog's paw. The dog would just lay there with my got fed is that will just make your heartache you will the story makes my heart ache but but I am I am I am really impressed with you and to give a gift to mick and him being able to return that gift you have to even even though he was limited in what he could do that he could return that gift and so those are just a magical forty one days until until I'm sure it just got almost unbearable it was it was fun. It was not scared. A few people there was there was a petite little little nurses that are probably still cursing my name because I was a bit of a pit bull. Were you a bit of a pit bull there. There was one time around midnight. 'CAUSE I was up every hour reducing him or or supervising dosing of medications and things in one of the nurses didn't give him enough morphine and he started writing pain and when a six foot four body starts thrashing Ashen run in bed they end up on the floor. You know so I was trying to control him and I was screaming at her. I'm sure I've probably scarred her for life might be. I doubt that you're you're too kind I I I can't you know you might have been tough but but you're a to kind to be to be someone that would scar someone for life. I'm glad to hear that I have about a year ago. I came across the writings and public speaking she's done. Ted Talks of Pauline Colleen boss and I I want to read to you an extended quote and on radio extended quotes are always very difficult so I will I will keep them short. I was just trying to figure out how to turn off the sound on my computer and and Pauline boss came up with a concept that's called ambiguous loss and it's it's it's really you know we chatted very briefly this afternoon about it and and I I think it's it's utterly profound and I really want your take on it and it is written of her that through her writings and public speaking speaking family therapist and professor Pauline Baas whose book is titled Ambiguous Loss Speaks Boldly on the myth of closure and that is that is so anti-american exactly you know. We're always talking closure but it it. It's like your tree. see you. Your a tree is still going to have that that dark ring around it when it was burned right and so it doesn't get closure on it but it's nevertheless. LS keeps growing right you know I think I think if you if you're so devastated by that it completely stops your life life. Then you need help you then you need any group help perhaps therapy or the friends finding things to do but but you have not face that but anyway back on this quote the myth of closure of professor boss it is written. Pauline boss is created the field of ambiguous laws that is loss without closure like ambiguous laws. It's a it's a great word and grief is complicated. She writes such as dealing with parents divorce addiction dementia ageing and death and then she writes you love somebody and when they're lost. You still care about them. You just can't turn it off. You just just can't turn off their love and she goes on and says there is no such thing as closure. I know right now I can. I can hear the thoughts of our audience and what you're talking about. Everybody talks about closure that how do you get closure on it and she says that closure is a myth that we need to put aside like such as the idea of accepting that grief has five linear stages and then when you a pass through the stages you come out on the other side of it and there's you know there's no more there's no more grief no more loss and that's just. I that's just bullshit agree. That's just that's just not true in life and so therefore she coined the term ambiguous loss creating the new fe new field in family therapy and psychology she has wisdom for the complicated Greece you know she is nice nice little phrases complicated griefs and losses in all our lives and for how we can best approach coach the losses of others so tell me what do you think about the myth of closure about closure and going through your five stages. I think it's important to go through the stages of grief. I I think the yeah I have many about this. something that I knew with myself that I now know about myself is that I had no alternative but but to go through the stages to give myself time I had no alternative. I was not capable of resuming normal activity for a time I they had to. I had to go through a bit of you know Cata Tonia you know I I found myself walking around the house in my pajamas for hours. You know you have have to go through the stages and allow yourself time to heal and who knows how much time that's GonNa take. I'm not going to resume to tell anyone else also how long their grief should take and I would imagine there are probably many people who are wondering why I was grieving. Someone I was married to so briefly and to hell with them yea but you had such a long relationship we did you marry to a married my best friend yeah yeah anyway so having said that you know. I I I do think there are stages and they think that they probably are a little bit different for everybody and I I do think we have to be kind to ourselves and give ourselves loves permission to be someone that we're not used to being for awhile and in my case I I was. I've always been an overachiever high achiever and you know I I like going out there and setting the world on fire and I took a year off to be weird when he was ill and then so it was about six months with Mick when he was ill and then it was about another six months after he passed just to give myself time to be human again. I I was I was in grief. You know I was angry and that's okay and and I think I think my biggest message. If any to it sheriff people is that it is okay to be a mess it is okay and I will. I do not believe I will ever revert to whoever whoever I was before. I'm that tree I've been burned. I've been scarred and the pain that I felt was the deepest pain I've ever felt of course my world but but I think like all things that pendulum swings so much farther the other way too I think capacity for love and my appreciation of love is that much greater as well the last days with Mick if he if I would lay with him on the bed and he would hold my hand and he would squeeze it and I would know he's aware I'm still here that bridge such profound joy those little little moments taught me to really pay attention and focus and understand every single moment of every day has incredible beauty and in value and I don't know what I would have gotten that were it not for the great part. Yeah you know what I want to continue on with the thought of of the opportunity for growth from suffering and that how neat you wrote how strong and how influential and powerful powerful suffering was really can't have a great life without we're GonNa take a brief break and then we're gonNA come back and chat This is Charlie Charlie hedges in. You're listening to the next chapter with Charlie and today my pleasure is to be chatting with Wendy. Andy Hooper Ross who as she has just explained has a most unusual marriage situation chelation at the death of her husband was quite a time of grief in quite a time of suffering and and it and it took Q. Year I know when my I'm adopted and when my adoptive mother she was got in my life she you know I was raised in raised in a matriarchal arkle family and and she was she was everything and when I she died when I was forty years old and it took me a full year. It took me. It took me a full year because she was so influential power over me a power over over. You're not controlling me but teaching me. The important things of life was just was just overwhelming so so I understand understand and I and I I'm not I'm not sure everybody completely understands the value of grief and suffering and that we cannot grow without it right it is it is something that is heart changing in life changing. How do you feel about that. I couldn't wouldn't agree more through suffering through pain comes growth. I mean you know if we get too comfortable. We stopped growing and I'm not saying that I G. I'm delighted this happened of course not no no never never yeah but I do. I do feel like bigger because of emotionally and spiritually virtually in all ways I am heightened because of having had that experience you see life through a whole different filter I do. I do you you you you you mentioned. What did you mention that I wanted to talk about. Oh Oh that that you were talking. You know today mindfulness presence. Are you know that's the those are the go to words words you know to be to be mindful and present but after mixed death and your experience of grief and and suffering the way you discussed it earlier was that you are more mindful more present and in in your life. How is how is that possible. What what impact do you think your relationship with Mick and and his death wrote about that you know I think just your here's an example and I think I shared this with you before I would always say to make when we were friends. You know life life is lived in the small moments and I believed it and then when I had those last few precious moments with MC. I better understood my own words. It was like you know it was crazy because I I thought wow I understood what the words met meant but it didn't really we get them on a soul level. I understood Oh my God. Life is lived in the small moments and if we get so busy on our treadmill of life that we stopped not paying attention to the moments we're going to miss all the good stuff and I find myself sitting back like the day that I met you and just sort of wallowing in the joy of conversation with people whom I like and when you came up and said who are you. What a brave man. We know this guy that that was that was I don't normally do that. I don't don't normally approach women and say who are you to your point. I think in my life and in my my business I it has allowed me or caused me to be a little bit more aware of everything myself and others you know oh I I make fewer snap judgments I. I really really meditate on things especially. I'm in real estate. People get very emotionally charged in real estate transactions. I find myself being much more careful about what I say and how I say it to make to make the outcome better for everybody I for some reason it's taught me I think a greater degree patients patients and and and he yeah that that that I going back a bit on what you said I so agree that life is composed of small mall moments and that we must we must take advantage of those moments in appreciate what we're doing even our conversation now you know I'm in I'm in a learning learning process of you know. That's why I love to do interviews because I'm interested the people that I want to learn and and this this this tragedy seemed to impacted you just to the highest degree of living in a better life and maybe realizing the life is short yeah. I think it drove that point home. Ferociously life is short and every day is is a gift and if I don't appreciate that I have today I'm probably screwing up because I'm not guaranteed tomorrow. so yeah it enhanced all of that awareness something that surprised me that. I think my greatest shock is that I've always been a hard working independent pendant woman I always thought you know I don't have a man in my life because I need one. I have one of my life because I want one and and that is true true but after having Mickan losing mic. I realized I really WANNA partner. That is important to me in life. It's more important than I knew South Pitney yeah. That's not a little piff. Unie that that's great. Tell me I'm always curious this about mindfulness and presence I'd I I. I never take things at face value. I'm always contemplating that and how and and so I'm wondering in a in a practical way how how are you. When do you find time to be mindful. Are you when you when you walk. I can say to the Center club and and you're very present you're seeing people. Is there any way that you that you're you're thinking at the time I have to be this or is it just a natural. It really feels like a natural outcome. 'cause it's not deliberate. becomes deliver liberated. I find myself drifting off like if I was here having a conversation with you and all this and I'm thinking Oh did I let the dog out or did I mail the tax checker than than I snap myself back and think what are you doing. You're here with Charlie. You're speaking with Charlie focus so those are the only times we're anything becomes deliberate but I don't walk into and think okay the deliberateness. I'm going to do these things and pay attention to those things. It's just happening. I love that word deliberate. I use the word intentional but I love the word deliberate that we needed. We need to live it. It's well let me take that back. That sounds awful. Preachy it is it is most advantageous is to live life intentionally or with with purpose and with paying attention just simply paying attention. It's I've often said I've often heard of the most popular people are the most admired people. People are the ones when they're talking to you. You're the only person that exists site. There's nobody else nobody else in the room. Nobody else around Um but I'm talking to you and you said that in our interview that Y- you know other thoughts because other thoughts come to mind but I it's it's it's like a a a woman that I once heard in a lecture the talk who lived in Spain and the part that she lived when you eight eight there were a lot of flies and so you could spend all your time shing flies or just accept the fact that there's going to be flies uh-huh and just keep eating right and don't worry about it on a piece of meat you know your your push it off and you know 'cause you try not to eat the fly ideally but you probably do have some some fly innards in u but it is that is that is the art sort of avoid avoiding distraction right exactly and I think that Charlie is why I'm well liked at the club because I really we do give a damn about how so and so's Day was. I really do care if their sons broken arm is mending. He's back in sports. I really do care because I know it matters to them and you know it. It makes you wildly popular. It's a fascinating thing yeah. It's it's interesting I I would somebody story my my friend who is on the show often Terry Hershey and so the listeners will know of Terry Hershey the woman he's with right now just just got out of surgery for Breast Cancer Alao and they remove lymph nodes and they've taken all the tests and it looks like she's he's completely okay but but I call him a couple of days a week and tell me and just just to say Tummy. How's Nancy doing you. You know how she feeling wh what's happening and and I think he's I think he's shocked by that that probably someone would actually just call and he and I are close friends. We're going to be s but that's always the first question is tell me about Nancy how she doing and and I think the more we do that. The the more the more important we make other people feel everybody is important. Every everybody is important. One of my goals in Life Wendy is to help people feel better about themselves to great goal to like themselves more decorate call because who's doing that if I don't do that. Who's going and to do that because we're also self-centered that we just we wanna think we think all only want to think of ourselves in our you know the show is going to people on the shore pro went away. I always talk about it but but the American dream drives us not not to be social except for monetary gain and his dogged pursuit of Abyan say yes yes and we don't we don't get a chance to enjoy this life and and and it never ceases as I read on death and it never ceases to impress me that very very very successful people when they ride about the importance of their life they will talk about relationships. It's always about that. It begins and ends with love so my final question for you as we begin to wrap up the show so it's it's really like what's He. GonNa ask Yeah No my question is so what now what what what are your intentions for life after laws. I know you've explained how it's impacted you but now intentionally would you have have you changed your intentions of how you want to live your life a bit and what do you want I am. I have always been that workaholic golic person that was doggedly pursuing you know the accomplishments and and not really this stuff but I I I was very competitive. I just have to win and so I didn't have as much time didn't dedicate as much time to my sister and my my nieces and my great nieces and my nephews and that has become more important to me which is I think a big lesson that I've learned like I'm not gonNA be around forever. They're not gonNA be around forever. need to pay attention and I I spent I spent more time doing what I darn well want to do an I spend less time doing that which I don't and with people I don't and that has been transformative. There people have just edited out of my life like you know what I don't want to hang out with them. I'm not going to it reminds me of of the book I just order from Derek solvers yeah and and it's titled it's either. Hell yes or no right net great yeah either. Hell yes us. I'm full in. I'm not in and all right. There's no I'm just in for the fun of it. I'm not gonNA waste a moment in conversation in or in any occupation. The doesn't bring me or someone else joy or satisfaction. I'm just not going to do it and had a conversation. I wish you had been there to see. It extremely pointed with someone at the club last week. I was having a conversation with a woman about a gentleman that I started dating because yes I'm dating again and and she was concerned. This person wasn't good enough for me. which is what good friends always say and this person who barely knew me came up and started just trash talking the guy and I- I uninvited him from our conversation and he didn't take a hint and so I very bluntly said get the hell away from me? This conversation is over. Did you really absolutely so not all sunshine and roses all the time. Oh no I so admire that that is that is that is so healthy because what what value is he adding into your life and she wasn't going to allow it to. I wasn't going to patiently wait for him to continue being an ASS. He could be an somewhere else not with me. That is that is great and I think I think we're going to close on that note because I liked that note. You know hell yes or no and and if it's no and it's an it's destructive no and get the hell away from me. Bravo. I need you great insight. Wendy great insight right so Wendy Hoop Ross. Thank you so much for spending time with me today. It's really been a pleasure inviting me. Oh it was it was fun as just and so so what is the word I'm thinking of so so serendipitous you know that I would meet you at the club and we get to do this. and I also want to thank our listeners for tuning into the next Chapter Charlie and and be sure to check it out check us out on our website the next chapter dot life and until next this is Charlie has you're signing off by for now and you've been listening to the next Chapter Charley right here in Orange. County's only community radio station Talk Radio Radio Dot net. It's cutting into your exercise sized time it stabbing in the back nine and it's attacking your peace of mind. It's pain and it's getting in between you and the life you want to live CBP. CBS medic targets your pain at its source. It's fast acting relief with active. OTC ingredients plus the added benefits of THC FREE HEMP oil get back to your life with CBD mediamatic available online and at CBS these statements have not been evaluated by the FDA. This product is not intended to diagnose treat cure or prevent any disease. It's cutting into your exercise time it stabbing you in the back nine and it's attacking your peace of mind. It's pain and it's getting in between you in the life. You want onto live CD medic. Target your pain at its source. It's fast acting relief with active. OTC ingredients plus the added benefits of THC free heme boil. Get back back to your life with C._B._D. Medic available online and that C._B._S. These statements have not been evaluated by the F._D._A. This product is not intended to diagnose treat cure or prevent any disease.
What To Expect From Big Podcast This Year
"Bill today podcast, David Hooper here. Funny irony is that I've been doing so much podcast related stuff. And not actually podcasting one of these things. It's my new site. Big podcast bulletin, go to bulletin dot big podcast dot com. Got a lot of things for you there. How to get your podcast on Alexa, talking about music talking about intros got some podcast profiles. And if you're somebody who's an interesting podcast or doing something interesting. You want to be on that reach out to me at David Hooper on Twitter is the way to do that coming up over the next week. I've got a big giveaway. We've got a new book coming out in a couple of months, and I've been thinking about marketing it the book is on podcasting. So I ask people so what kind of podcasting stuff would you like to receive as a gift doing some events? Give away some stuff number one answer, the zoom, h foreign, you know, this is a little bitty. Let's call the portable recorder you plug a couple of excel or Mike's into it. It's great for portable podcasting. So that is the first part of the package. I've got a couple of weeks to go with it cables took everything up an advanced copy of my brand new book also personal training with me. I'm gonna work with you. Get your podcast up to speed help you grow an audience that is coming in just a few days coming up in the next few weeks. More building a podcast episodes. Now that I'm out of the trenches for actually getting this book done was not quite done yet working on audio book for the next month. But the actual heavy lifting of the writing of this book now, then don't want that going to have more time for podcasting. I've got a three part video series. How to grow a podcast audience that is my gift to you for sticking with me. That is coming soon. I've got the answer to the number one question. I get which is how to get your podcast syndicated to broadcast radio and the new book, it's called dig podcast ninety three thousand words as I mentioned in the process of getting audiobook together. So if you like to consume your books like that. That will be available to you. I've got a big event coming in Nashville, which is going to kick this stuff off. That's a couple of months away free to attend. I'll have more information for you here. So to keep informed. Make sure you subscribe, the website big podcast dot com. You can search for Bill to be podcast wherever you get your podcast hit. Subscribe that way, you'll make sure that you never miss an episode back in air chair with more episodes this year, I'm excited to give them to you ways. On grow your podcast. You more influential in your space to be more attractive to an audience and actually attract them to you like a magnet when it goes to all those things more over the next few months. Thanks for sticking with me. Search for ability podcasts in your favorite podcast directory. And I will see you soon on the next episode of building podcast.
Solving The Biggest Mysteries Of Our Universe, With Dan Hooper
"The big brains is supported by the david rubenstein form at the university of chicago. A purpose built venue designed to host exceptional meetings and events now open for approved convenings featuring sophisticated audiovisual offerings. Forum is equipped to facilitate your next meeting or event in state stated the facilities while remaining consistent with university city and state guidelines. Learn more. About how our team can assist you by visiting forum diet chicago dot. Edu why is our universe the way it is. How does it work. What makes it tick why this universe not only is this question fascinating on its own but considering that this is the only universe. We're going to get we better. Try piecing it together. So just picture of a puzzle laying out your table. This is dan hooper professor of astronomy and astrophysics at the university of chicago and host of another chicago. Podcast why this universe. You don't even know what what kind of pitcher you're trying to make yet you've got eight pieces out there. You see some colors and stuff in the new put two or three more pieces down and use. Oh that's a face. Oh that's a arm in. That's a building over the course of human history. We've completed a lot of this puzzle but there are still plenty of missing pieces to keep people like dan. Busy razzing questions about you know. Why does the universe work that way. It does what laws doesn't obey those laws. come to be in place. How did the universe begin. Howlett end when we talk about the formation of our universe were often talking in terms of billions even tens of billions of years but hooper thinks all the important stuff actually happened in the first few seconds right after the big bang while they're definitely the most interesting seconds of our universe's history at the whole the whole stage was set for the rest of cosmic history in that tiny window of time and there are at least four things. We can't explain about our universe's first fraction of a second one the nature of matter and anti matter to dark matter three dark energy and four. Why the universe is remarkably uniform from the university of chicago podcast network. This is big brains. A show about the pioneering research and pivotal breakthroughs. That are reshaping our world today on the show the missing puzzle pieces of the universe. I'm your host all-round dan. Hooper wasn't always going to be a physicist as an undergrad. He thought he'd be a music major. He dabbled economics. And then history. And i wound up taking a intro to modern physics class and in that quarter i learned about the theory of relativity and i learned a little bit about the theory of quantum physics and those two things. Were the most exciting things that ever learned about in my life. And i instantly like turned on a dime and said this is what i wanna do I'm gonna read and learn as much as i can about this stuff. I became a good student all the sudden. I never been a good student before and never turned around. Have never looked back. That's definitely what i wanted to do. One of the things that hooper learned about in that physics class is something called the standard model of particle physics. It's currently scientists best theory to describe the most basic building blocks of the universe. I think it's fair to say every experiment. We can do in a laboratory of the deep down laws of physics dictate. How the universe works. The standard model predicts all of that. It's is remarkable this the success of this theory on the other hand. The standard model has some major holes and like anyone who's ever tried to put together a puzzle with missing pieces. It can drive scientists a bit crazy so most of the energy and the is in the stuff. We call dark matter and dark energy. There's no space for that in the standard model that does not explain by the standard bottle. Shortly after the big bang there was this explosive era of growth call inflation. That's not explained by the standard model. In fact even the laws of gravity even the force of gravity doesn't have a place in the standard model. Hooper spends most of his time searching for answers to four of the most glaring gaps in the standard model and they each bring us back to the first seconds of the universe. Let's start with the problem of anti manner. So probably your audience is heard about anti-matter before but basically the idea is for every kind of matter that exists in the universe the laws of physics say there has to exist kind of an equal and opposite version of that and it turns out that you can only create matter when you create along with it an equal amount of antimatter and you can only destroy matter when you destroy along with it. An equal amount of anti matter in that to cosmetologists raises a big question. Why do we find ourselves living in the universe with a bunch of matter in it in very little anti-matter how did that come to be with every reason to think that the big bang should have started with equal amounts of both of these things and somehow we wound up in a universe where all the anti matters disappeared or at least almost all of it and a lot of matter stayed behind and we don't have a good answer to this. We have a lot of guesses a lot of speculations but something happened in that first fraction of a second that we don't currently know about that explains how this came to be set up. Okay so you. You mentioned dark matter a little bit ago. And that's the second missing piece of the standard model right. So when astronomers astrophysicists cosmologists. Look around at the universe. The reached the conclusion pretty quickly that most of the matter out there is not made of atoms. It's not any kind of matter that we're familiar with. It's not on the periodic table or anything like that instead. it's something else. That doesn't appreciably radiate reflect or absorb light in for a lack of a better name. We call this stuff dark matter. Okay you don't know what it is but we have a placeholder in the in the word of phrase dark matter we do know. It was almost certainly formed in the first fraction of a second after the big bang with lots of ideas for what might be and we have a lot of experiments. I'm going to test some of those ideas but so far it just remains an entirely open question What this stuff is or how it may became to be formed in that you know formative era so shortly after the big bang and so what makes dark matter important or worth studying will. If it weren't for the dark matter our universe would be a very different place as the universe expanded in cool in out in a pretty uniform or homogeneous distribution of matter. There's pretty much the same amount of stuff everywhere and if it weren't for the dark matter would have more or less stayed that way we wouldn't have very many galaxies or planets or stars. It would just be kind of a big old soup of atoms but the dark matter was able to kind of collapse into structures under the influence of gravity forming. What i like to think of the scaffolding of our universe so the dark matter formed the scaffolding first and then the gravity of dark matter pulled in the atoms allowing for the formation of things like galaxies and eventually stars planets. All right so the third gap that you talk about is dark energy. What's the difference between dark matter and dark energy so they're actually very different things so whereas dark matter is you know a form of matter even if it's very hard to detect or otherwise interact with dark energy is something else entirely you can think of dark energy as being the energy that is built into the vacuum of space itself. So if i took. I dunno say take a random cubic meter of space out there in the universe somewhere might take all the atoms out of that space. We'll take all the photons of light. All the neutrinos all the particles all the energy you can make it totally empty. It turns out that meter of space still contains a fixed amount of energy built into it and furthermore unlike other forms of matter energy. This dark energy doesn't get diluted as the universe gets bigger so as that cubic meter of space expands say it becomes two cubic meters of space the density of will go down by factor too but the density of the dark energy doesn't change so in a sense as universe expands it creates more dark energy and that means that as universe has gotten bigger dark energy as played a bigger and more important role in its evolution and in fact these days are universes dominated by dark energy and that's causing the universe to grow at a faster and faster rate so we don't know dark energy is even though it makes up about seventy percent of the universe and that's of scary to think about and even though hooper says it will be a long time before dark energy radically changes life on earth. It will be the main player in the very distant future. So what i have in mind. Is that s. The universe gets expanding faster and faster and gets bigger and bigger as a result of dark energy. There will be more parts of our universe that we become disconnected from what i mean by. That is if i if. I go back far enough to some distant part of our universe. Imagine i try to send to the earth a signal. Maybe i send a beam of light or radio beam or something that beam travels at the speed of light in. If it's if. I'm far enough away. From the earth and the space is expanding fast enough that will actually be growing at a speed faster than the speed of light so that beam will never reach us so when the sense we get cut off from distant parts of the universe we have a horizon around us that we can never experienced anything beyond and dark energy makes that horizon shrink as time goes on so the very very very distant future you know trillions of trillions of years from now we're going to be in a situation where the whole night sky will be empty of other galaxies will basically have one big big super galaxy that we live in and everything beyond that will be gone forever. We'll never be able to study those parts of the universe they'll simply be causally connected from us for all time. Let's come up to again your fourth puzzle you talk about why our universe is so homogeneous and i and i wonder if you can talk about what you mean by that and and as such. Why is it so puzzling. Yes so here's the thing if you just said here's the big bang theory. Here's how it's were held works. You'd have no reason to think that. If i pointed a telescope in one direction of the sky and looked back as far as i could and then i took that telescope and pointed in some other direction. The skies very different direction. The sky look back as far as i could. There's no reason to think those places should look the same. That's not what we see when we look at the light. That's as far back as we can. What we call the cosmic microwave background. This light looks the same no matter where we pointed telescopes at least till like one part. One hundred thousand so remarkably uniform and this raises. A bunch of questions is kind of like. If i told you that the temperature in new york city and in beijing right now was the same to one part one hundred thousand. That would be pretty weird like it would require some sort of explanation or maybe. It's just an incredibly bizarre coincidence. But now let's say. I told you not just those two cities but the all the others thousands and thousands and thousands of other cities that you can think of. They all have the same temperature to one part. In one hundred thousand this would require something to have made them all sync up in this way. You'd have to have an explanation so similarly we look at the early universe. We say some mechanism must have been in place to explain. How all of these parts of the universe which were totally disconnected from each other at the time could have come to have been in you know essentially identical states. So there's no complete consensus on what the answer is to this. But the most popular idea among cosmologists is that may be our universe underwent another brisk expansion shortly after the big bang something called cosmic inflation the working theories we have now of inflation. Describe picture in which something like to the minus thirty two seconds pass an in that period of time. The universe doesn't just get bigger but gets wildly bigger exploding in volume by a unimaginably large large degree. It means that if any two particles were next to each other at the beginning of inflation of tiny tiny fraction of a second later they were in a different universes totally causally disconnected from each other. Never could be in contact again but now we have a way of figuring out how they could have been synchronized because once they were in contact in then they were torn apart by inflation leaving our universe in a smooth and homogeneous configuration like we see it end today. All four of these mysteries remain unanswered. And we don't know we'll find the answers in our lifetime. One hundred years ago we knew nothing about cosmology right. We were still arguing about whether the milky way was the whole universe or one of many galaxies out in the universe like that. We didn't even know that one hundred years ago so do you think will be in a similar spots seemingly make another hundred years that will look back and say we knew nothing back in twenty twenty twenty one or do you think we've actually like with the standard model. We've got ninety percent of this down or figuring out the remaining ten percent. Yeah so i mean. I guess but the the fact is i just don't know because there are some branches of human inquiry that don't make great progress in any given hundred years. I don't think we know a lot more about. I don't know metallurgy than we. Did you know a a century ago. We learned things but there haven't been like total transformation of our way of understanding things or understanding of the. Zoology is kind of qualitatively. Similar to what. It was one hundred years ago or something. Maybe the metallurgist zoologist would take offense to that. But i'm not trying trying to do that. Upset meterorologist but every once in a while there is a kind of paradigm shift in that. It opens an entirely new landscape possibilities for a field. It's a little early to tell but a very recent discovery could be the paradigm shift that physicists have been waiting for now an international team of scientists working on a project in the united states. Say that they have discovered strong evidence for the existence of a new force of nature. Basically that some subatomic particles called wounds. Don't behave in a way predicted. By current theories of physics experiment happened at fermilab near chicago. Which is managed by the university were dan. Hooper is a senior scientist in the breakthrough. Could up in the known laws of physics. It's called the mu on g two experiments. Let me kind of paint the picture here. So there's this elementary particle called him yuan basically a a heavy unstable version of an election. And you can use that theory. We talked about in the beginning of the podcast. A standard model yup to predict how this particle should react to a magnetic field. So you put a part of this amendment field in its spins kind of like atop exactly the rate that spins it depends on something we call the magnetic moment of the on and you can use the standard model to leery very precisely calculate what this number should be what the milan's moment should be and then you can go and you can measure it in a an experiment. We just done at fermilab and it turns out the best we can tell. The number that is being measured is not compatible with the number predicted by the theory. If this is true in a lotta is to dodd and teased across but if it turns out to be true in robust that means a standard model is breaking this evidence of for the first time that there's a law physics interacting with the particles that were studying these laboratories that we don't currently know about in it's changing the way this particle interacts in a magnetic field. That could be that. There are all new forms of matter or new forces at play. It could be any number of things but the really exciting thing is that you know. We've been waiting for decades for the standard model to break so we can build something bigger a new And this looks like it could be that moment in time where we're finally seeing the standard model break for the first time in history. So how revolutionary could them you on results be so the short answer is we don't know like there are lots of different ways. You could resolve this. I worked on a couple of ways to do this myself. A one very popular theory among a particle physicist something called super symmetry basically double the known number of particles and it would solve a lot of theoretical problems that we've been struggling with for decades. These new particles would interact and all sorts of complicated ways. Some of them might be dark matter candidates in the sense that they might be the particles that make up the dark matter of our universe there could be entirely new forces so right now we know of four forces in nature. There's gravity is a force of electromagnetism and there are two forces that we call the strong and weak nuclear forces. This might be evidence of a fifth force. Homage could have a lot of important implications for early universe and in for the larger structure of our of the laws of physics of our universe. And also every time you get another piece like this it helps you see the bigger picture you know. So maybe this is a one step towards a you know grand unified theory of nature or theory of everything as we like to call them. Maybe that's being optimistic but this is the sort of advanced set to get you closer to having that sort of a true remarkable achievement after the break the philosophy of physics in dan hooper response to our recent episode with avi loeb. Thank you for listening to big brains. If you're enjoying our podcast. Please take a minute to give us a review and a rating and tell a friend about the show to we hope to share these conversations about pioneering research with as many people as possible again. Thanks for listening to the size of these. Mysteries of physics is well as large as our universe and yet it's also as small as the atoms that make us up at both of those scales. It's hard to keep philosophical questions from creeping in in fact one of the classes that dan hooper teaches is called philosophical problems in cosmology philosopher. In any any professional sense. I am certainly an enthusiast of loss especially philosophy of science and one of the philosophical questions of the field is whether physics allows for free will. Yeah that's one of my favorite topics. Why still remember. When i started to think about this for the first time when i was in my undergraduate classical physics course in the professor was talking about some stuff that pearson applause said more than two hundred years ago in basically what he pointed out is if you knew perfectly the location and velocity of every particle in the whole universe at any moment in time just one particular moment in time and you had a big enough computer He didn't use the computer but he he had in mind. Some sort of calculating machine you could put the laws of physics and in that that configuration into that computer and it could be used to sort out not only what the universe was like at every point in time prior to that but also at every point in time after that and it would be hard to reconcile that reality with any kind of system in which you look at somebody and say you know. They are truly responsible for what they do after all. We're just made of atoms and those atoms follow bauza physics and if you can without asking for my input. Tell me exactly what i'm gonna do in every moment in the future then i can hardly be said to have any kind of freedom and having made any kind of choices now of course. This is complicated in twentieth century. Physics for a couple of different reasons. Quantum physics isn't deterministic. it's More of a random sort of procedure. At least in a in the what. We call the copenhagen view quantum mechanics. But i don't think that gives you freedom in the same sense that. If every time. I were to make a decision i had to roll a dice and do whatever the die told me to do. That wouldn't be free. It would just be haphazard. And the same goes for you. Know things having to chaos and other source of random Facets or things that you can't control that but at least aren't deterministic in a in a strict sense. So yeah when i look at the universe in his laws of physics as we understand it. There's no no reason to think that anybody has something that i would call Freedom at least in the in the way that might make somebody morally culpable for their actions or praiseworthy for their actions as well. That's a big thought. So i i get back. You said the understanding of physics. It's is is really in the scientific room but is you talk like that. It almost feels like it's starting to veer into the territory not of of nestle philosophy but even religion at and how does that process for you. Yes oh i mean. I happen to to not be particularly religious person. I'm i'm an atheist. And i i don't think there is any any space for divine judgement or something but if you do believe in a deity that that the judges are rewards or punishes based on a one's actions is pretty hard to reconcile that with what we know about physics and howard the laws of physics and our universe work and the longer i did. Physics the more random and unintentional. The universe seemed. It didn't seem like if somebody were planning a universe for some grand purpose it does. This does not look like that. You know just like a universe that fell into place through a bunch of circumstance or happenstance or so okay but on the other hand i know many physicists including very talented in knowledgeable physicists. Who great work. Who aren't atheist so. I don't think you know at least it just on a sociological or psychological vantage point. Being a theorist is not incompatible with being a physicist or scientists that that is just objectively the case when it comes to thinking about the questions of our universe are recent episode with another cosmologists. Avi loeb of harvard certainly comes to mind. Yeah listen to that. One lobe claims that an alien space artifact into our solar system in twenty seventeen astronomers were excited to discover the interstellar object last year. It was named a war more. That's hawaiian for messenger or scout. We have a wager similar to the wager. The skull posed. He talks about good said either. Go exists or doesn't exist if god exists implications are huge. Therefore we have to consider that possibility. And i do the same for a more more being technological relic. I say if it is a technology relic the implications are used for society and it turned out that we picked the right time to have lobe on the podcast just a few weeks later. Everyone is talking about aliens. We have tackled many strange stories on sixty minutes. But perhaps none like this. It's the story of the. Us government's grudging acknowledgment of unidentified aerial phenomena. What is true. I'm being serious. Here is that there are There's footage and records of objects in the skies that we don't don't know exactly what they are the. Us government knows something. Unexplained is out there next month. We may get answers. The pentagon has until late june to tell congress in an unclassified or what it knows about unidentified flying objects lobes assertion that we likely witnessed in the elian artifact and twenty seventeen is incredibly controversial among peers. So we wanted to get hooper stink. I personally think that's an idea worth exploring and talking about and i'm perfectly fine with that. I am even fine with him. Writing a book about it and in going on podcast and talking about it. I probably share a different view than avi in the sense that he he actually thinks. This is very likely to be true. If i'm understanding correctly and i'm probably would conclude that it is a long shot that it's true but an interesting long shot and one worth devoting some intellectual resources to toward so like. I had a similar response from some of my colleagues something like ten years ago when i was on an episode of a tv program called. Ancient aliens are holy sites around the world. The product of man's reverence for god or are the result of contact with ancient space travelers. It's kind of a silly show. I don't know if you're aware of it but this particular episode. They wanted somebody to come on and talk about einstein and relativity and i agreed to do that and like to think about what it would be like from a first person perspective sitting on a beam of light moving through space. And what would you see from that perspective. He had all sorts of different visual ways of thinking about physics. I never mentioned the word aliens or anything about but then after my little six minute and a reduction on einstein than it can you know the the plot twisted is it possible. As ancient astronaut theorist content that einstein's ability to enter altered states of consciousness connected him to an extra terrestrial world and people criticized me for participating in that kind of ecosystem. But i actually am of the view that even if some of it's a little bit goofy if you get people who are gonna watch some random showing cable. Tv or whatever. Maybe it's better to have them watching a show where they learn a little bit about einstein than some show by their kadarshian. It's not many times. You get to really have einstein and the kardashians in the same sentence. So i wanna give you credit for that you know. I'm pretty pretty flexible. About what scientists. Shouldn't you know what their obligations are about about talking about the some of the public. I think exciting. The public has real value. And whatever you think about avi loeb. He's definitely capable of doing that. I think i'll take my hat off to him any day. Yeah and fascinating guy. And he's a wonderful talker but he is not shy about criticizing theoretical physics. And i wonder as you listen to that. What kind of reactions was at pulling out of you. Yes so. I've i've mixed feelings about it so so first of all avi avi i mean. I don't agree with everything he says but he's just clearly brilliant so i don't think you should discard anything he has to say without pondering it pretty deeply but i probably share his view about you know. Theoretical physics being Particularly you know myopic in its vision or something is the case. They can be a conservative community. Small c conservative in in the sense that link. They they don't want to look at circumstantial or inconclusive. Evidence and Consider the most grandiose interpretations of that that that data At least they're more reluctant to do that. Hooper may be just as careful in his interpretations. But he's definitely interesting grandiose conversations and if you wanted to hear him go even deeper into the mysteries of the universe black holes quantum mechanics multiple dimensions. You can find him on his university of chicago. Podcast network show why this universe. So since last summer. I've been making a podcast coho shamma waxman. Shauna was an undergrad here at the university of chicago. We did research together. Starting the podcast. But she's a grad student at nyu now and we do these. Roughly thirty minute explainers on what we think are some of the most exciting things in physics. So we dig a little deeper that into the sort of topics that we talked about here today where we spent a whole half an hour on on one idea or sometimes two or three half an hour's on one idea it's been a great experience making the podcast and a lot of people seem to like it. So check it out Big brains is a production of the chicago. podcast network. If you like what you heard please give us review and a rating shows hosted by paul m rand and produced by me matt hold up with assistance from illicit seeds. Thanks for listening.
GUI Nights: Grandma's Haunted Clown Doll
"We've got a devilish little kickstarter here for all your geeks and goals for the Halloween season throwing horns. It's a light RPG of devils, demons and metal. You play a literal band of demons touring the best and worst venues in hell the promoter or AK. The GM will guide you on the tour and throw encounters in your path which you can overcome in the most of. US had banging tunes your demonic commanding presence or just good old-fashioned violence to beat encounters and continue is a kickstarter from a friend of ours that only have through the month October to raise its fun. So definitely go to throwing horns RPG dot com or just hit up the link on our homepage podcasts dot com donate get some extra stuff if you reach the right tier of donation and keep on throwing them horns The views and opinions expressed on Geeks or the influence or that of the panelists and not of our sponsors Amazon dot com and t public parental discretion is advised. You. Welcome back to engy way nights she. Hates night as you might have guessed by this voice, this is not the sweet sound the velvety sound of lowdown Brown, the sexual chocolate. Though sexual, the German chocolate this is like the chalky. Look like. These. Chocolate. Cooking. Chocolate. German chocolate amazed around shot that there is a German chocolate cakes are. God Damn Right. German chocolate Swiss chocolate. fucking. Delicious. However yes I I cannot replace the low down. But no, one can or should now. Yeah this is now with this will lily white skin. This Jiwei nights and we are going to be following up. With our recent episode on Tobe Hooper However, I need to introduce. The other panelists here and To my left. The purveyor of the Gui Network, the progenitor Oh. I love using that word. Of Gui is Mike the Habit. Bigot, it's me. Yeah. That's the thing. Yeah make sure you check out you PODCAST DOT COM and subscribe to all the shows rate review all that stuff and Yeah. Read because I'm not in charge even when Stevens not here I make somebody else do the heavy lifting. At this point by the as many people know by the end of the episode, I've been drinking to a point where I should not be in charge of damn thing as you may be heard from the last Jedi Knights. Fair and I WANNA in that regard apologize to. Apologize For shed that listened to that episode for the level of inebriation that I had achieved by the time we got tonight's from last episode I can only promise that it will be Very slightly less on this episode well, to be fair I've been there on many gyn episodes and nights episodes were have been like Oh. My God, I'm talking about. Yeah. No, you're fine. So next up, we gotTA. Introduce. The other panelist, do we absolutely murphy? You're the most amazing panelists and all of the Gui properties. You are so prepared. And you are probably the most sober one here right now so I would. Yeah, that's very likely. Really are you sure? Yeah. Probably I drank a nine point five percent alcohol beer. Darn well okay. Well, we were drinking whiskey and lots more booze did that together as I would say about anti-depressants you how Murphy such a added bonus to us as a panelist across the the network that we've talked with her about starting are on show and. It, it's a no pressure situation. It's got to be the right fit. I will talk my fucking face off about Ami thing and nothing frankly like if anybody has seen me drunk at the beginning of quarantine. But you know it's like I can talk for fucking ever and that's why they occasionally let me host naked people I like hosting naked people with dear. That's chee-hwa nights. Oh, my God I purchased my Dick and I have yet to host with that. But I find microphones a little bit more convenient is the host with the. Some not the most. With the host Hobbit would that Dick? That's a home saying I think you should probably see the Dix Dr. seuss. He's not worried about that. You should be. I'm pretty sure there'd be a peggy kind of move at some point. Thank you. Oh Guy. and. All right. So we're actually talking about two toby bringing back to Texas which I. Totally Mentally we're talking about Tober and poltergeist and what have you the host for this episode of Nights I. Standing in for the lowdown Brahma God. We've got the hostess with the most is from a beautiful. We've got hair groups here to bring his sultry German tones. Very much. So yes. I try to deliver when I can. Anyone who senior DVD collection that you can deliver. Absolutely indeed I've I've lent out way too many and I've missing too many. But Yeah and I've sampled you're selfish and it's quite delicious. Oh, I appreciate your Concessions to my mind I also take a moment to say that I appreciate you on every episode of beautiful disaster because I. Google thing. You are the most prepared. We talked about that the prior episode definitely you're the most prepared, but also you are a fantastic. Fantastic, suck at each other's dicks. So hard on this, I didn't bring my Dick so you can't suck it that hard. Your emotional deck, my emotions sucking your emotional dick look my it is really big. So this is all I, know it's hard to fit in my mouth I know what the? The size of your anxiety Dick size it my anxiety decades massive. Not. Even. GonNa talk about myself deprecation dig 'cause that is. I must have for special occasions and a significant amount of Luke warm up. Oh Man. DP All the way with those two Dick's O- I. Their my Texan I wa. Called covid where you're getting double. Dick's. lyod and self-deprecation. Jesus Christ look I'm just thank you toby who prefer not putting that in any. Let's talk about over you. Can Hang on a meat hook? Double. Dip Me in the Dick size of anxiety and self-deprecation. Talking about how ruined we were by poltergeist I think was the yes I think that was the thing we save for this episode and At least a start. Never know where this going through. So I have a better take on that than I. Do I watched it as an adult I'm going to tell you the story of of how I got scared of scary movies. Yes. Tell me about your tone drama and this trauma. I was in I believe the second grade and this between when I was Living overseas. our family was living in the states. And my older half brother was babysitting us. This is probably nineteen eighty, five I wake up in the middle of the night hearing strange noises and my older half brother has a date over. And he is chilling on the living room couch and our parents house watching poltergeist on I guess VHS. I Pique my my head out of my bedroom, and I am their present for the scene where the sun is. Both attacked by the clown doll and then. scooped up by the tree out of his window and swallowed by the tree. Okay, which Completely fucking terrified me. We live and prevented you from being a Hippie at any point in your life. Afterwards fuck the trees they identify Goddamn right. Lived in a neighborhood that was. Like a forest. Okay. There was nothing but trees out there that shit absolutely fucking paralyzed terror terrified me. And for years that was the scariest Shit I ever fucking seen. A fucking tree scooping dude out of a window and like swallowing kid, it's true. Absolutely. fucking terrifying still to this day. That's. Now, I Have said on the previous episode that it was around twelve that I really watched poltergeist That is both true and not true at the same time is that my dad taped a lot of stuff when when he when he lived with us, my parents separated when I was around five and there were a lot of. VHS tapes of him recording stuff from HBO. When we had the free HBO, we didn't have cable after my parents split I did have a lot of old vhs as of stuff that he taped and I feel like when I I watch poltergeist there were definitely moments that I remembered from my childhood and I don't know if that's when I was visiting my dad because he used to play horror movies for us when we visited. Like I saw Arachnophobia, he knew how to Arachnophobia as a child. Years after the thing that made me Arachnophobia happened is when my dad was like, here's a record phobia have fun I'm going to go to sleep with my girlfriend in the other room. And left me my own devices I. Feel like there was a level of that with poltergeist I don't know how much I watched, but there was a lot of familiarity with it and I feel like a blocked some of it out what I block out with clown seen the clown scene is the other fear that I have spiders clowns for long listeners. To try to be kind to you about and the worst part of the clown scene is that. Not long after I had seen poltergeist my grandmother. Sent a care package for Christmas. and. My sister got a clown doll that looked. Borderline, spitting image of the clown from poltergeist. Are. The neighboring room to my room was a clown doll that looked with the spindly fucking legs leg out of living nightmare this hand-stitched, which made it much more horrifying than the clown doll from poltergeist. Oh. Yeah. fucking lanky clown doll and that haunted my fucking dreams but you shared separate rooms you weren't in the same room. So Fuck Air, it's file we'll even Stan. Did shortly after when my step sister moved in and I had to live in a room with spindly legged poltergeist clown doll with a with a tree outside with a dietary outside, not a dying tree. We had a pine tree, not quite the same kind of trade. It's still tree that could fucking scoop you up and try to eat you I mean ultimately I, was less worried about the tree than the clearly psychopathic clown all that was living inside of my room. That's fair. So, how did you not like grab that Shit and bury it into the ground? I decided instead to one day when my eyes when I was home before my sister take all of her dolls and hang them by nooses and. What I do with my Barbie and the clown all I think I hung up in the window so where all the legs stretched out and hung by the corners of the window so. I. Hung Mickey Mouse from the lighting and I put a Note on Mickey Mouse I learned how to tie it news very shortly before this and said, Voice of Mickey left me I couldn't take it anymore and I pinned in many many. Yeah. Many left me how did that work out for your relationship with your sister? Not Great. She still gives me shit about it. So we're better off than we were when we were kids I would say. Right. Yeah. But that's what she gets for having haunted cloud Oh. Yes. So. That's how poltergeist traumatize the both of us. So you saw later in life. Yeah. Did you recently so? I waited a long time to watch poltergeist because I was. I was genuinely worried that I would have the same effect because I used to have not only nightmares night terrors where my eyes were open and I was screaming and like I was awake and no one could get me out of them and it was a big problem. So I started watching her in high school and didn't come upon Colt Poltergeist till couple of years ago around the time that I watched Texas chainsaw massacre and was like the films are brilliant and I very much enjoyed poltergeist it didn't unnerve me in the way to some other films did and. I will say that rarely do rarely does watching a film caused the problems for me. It's it's when things are flashed quickly or you know something something minute that sticks in my brain that is a problem for me but poltergeist coming upon it, I, just. Thought it was brilliant and I watched the whole thing like I was ready to be horrified because I've listened to all of my friends talk about it and it was something that I convey like if I had watched it as a child I, probably would never go near a television set again right? Because I still the my cousin told me a story about a Japanese doll scratching up people because it was jealous that other people love the child. That it was attached to and I never slept with that, fucking. Room again. So you know I can only imagine how poltergeist affected me. But you know it just when I came upon poltergeist, it was at the time where I was doing research into a facts and I was learning about the things that like the roots of horror like the roots of modern horror especially, and poltergeist was a huge part of that. Especially coming from you know we start with Texas chainsaw massacre and then blossomed from that with like that merger with Spielberg and that like. I don't want to sterilization coming for me t but in a way it was where. The you know it received a PG rating. It could have really pushed some horrific areas PG movie ever I'm GonNa. I'm one hundred percent gift. My parents had had taken me to see that bailing pg this is fine I. Probably would have paid I mean jaws got a PG two but like still come on I mean it's interesting. What qualifies for Ratings? One of the things that makes it so terrifying and what? made it. So like personally terrifying for me is the fact that the family is fully fleshed out. As if parents are imperfect, they don't have the best marriage, but they have okay marriage like it the original script, but it also feels like real life where I could you know as as a kid that came from a broken home see that as like it's imperfect but they're making it work like it seemed genuine to what I saw with my friends parents you know like it it felt. Very naturalistic in that relationship and the kids the kids were kind of Brad. Sometimes, they weren't bad kids. They were pretty good kids. You know it was it was a pretty ever real. Yeah. It was incredibly real it was and it is so real. So when it's the same thing that happened with et and close encounters like a Spielberg his influence made that happen and so when the. and. Then you see the breakdown of the Family Element where the dad just goes to drinking and he's like not into it at first until he is and even when he is shuts down he, he doesn't actually do anything at that point and see the breakdown of the of the family dynamic. That's the processing. As a kid that came from a broken home I'm seeing like elements of what I saw with the breakdown of the family element in that in a suture supernatural element, and so there was an extra level of terror of like these kids aren't not only broken from their experiences but the fact that they're not gonNa have parents that are together at the end of this and like it. Was it was added levels of just full on like real life terror and like supernatural terror at the same time. That's completely fair especially with analyzing the the impact of the potential loss of a child on a family unit. Yeah. and you know watching it later I had a really hard time separating poltergeist one and two from the way that like the family was trying to heal For with the father still being susceptible and all that and. I think that. Like Hooper plays with that a little bit especially when it comes to like, let's say fun house because she the daughter that is the primary focus of the film like it opens like you think you're going to see a slasher as the kid brother playing a trick where like you know it's a prop knife and it's not actually stabbing and she's like With Your Bra. and. The family is like, Oh, you know this, we read this thing about carnivals where you know there are these two young girls around data and Blah through promise me you go to the Carnival and she's like I won't, and then immediately goes to the carnival. Well, what kids like thinking about your childhood like don't you do this right? Don't you smoke cigarettes I'M GONNA don't you smoke pot We'll dots you drink beer me, but don't you modest? The Hooper's don't. But you know at the and then later on in the film she and her friend or like a must spend the night at her house Nama, spend the night at her house and so no one knows that they have decided to spend the night at this fun. House that is author fucking do for them and it leads to that like Claustrophobia. No one knows you're here no way out kind of feeling and it's one of those things where like harmless teenage. Like he gonNa get away with this goes horrifically wrong. It's Super Fun Oh God I love that movie I really enjoyed it. I honestly I went into it expecting something a lot cheesier than what I got and I like I've done my best to stop biting my nails but I destroyed one of my thumbnails because I was. So how apprehensive about what was going to happen to these characters because they're he really who are really works well with the feeling of. Constrained to a certain space will did in the eighties seventies. Halfway through the nineties, this was right before this was before lifeforce. Yeah. So this is this is after Salems lot before lifeforce. I WANNA say it was pre- poltergeist as well. You're right. is here before you are correct I want to say. Because he worked with Spielberg I'll draw this little. Connection. I think. There are certain you know directors, filmmakers that. have an amazing like connection with their art and they have they have they have inspiration everything going on and and they're they're works really fucking hit hard and then they may be struggle a little bit later when they. Grow up as people and maybe sure don't have the same inspiration. Means Spielberg's made great movies, post the eighties but like they have all been good well, Spielberg is one thing but hooper hooper has always been a very, even kill human like. Any of the interviews that I listen to throughout the entirety of his life for guardless of age he has very even Keel where he's not like his movies aren't like his early films. Rate. They are post to thousands are rash but I think that he just enjoyed making film and you don't. I locate. So not defending the fact that. I'm not saying that they're not trash look I saying that you can enjoy making trash I look at. So many my other horror film directors that I've come to know and love and some some of my biggest Jorge. Romero where the later films are just not good as much as I want them to decide or strange land man I what I look at his ration-. Is that you know he made a name for himself Texas chainsaw and poltergeist and the couple lifeforce in later times where people came to come. To appreciate it and he had the opportunity to live as a director, but it was pretty clear in his later years that there wasn't the inspiration that he had in his early years to make a good film and Hooper was very able to do that. But he also not able to make a shitty property that he signed onto. Good. Just because of directing, he needed to be inspired to make it good. That's fair. There's that and he really isn't much of a writer director now but also I wanna say that. There's definitely the indication that there's a lot of filmmakers that. You have their you know renaissance early on. And maybe lose it later and it's happened with lot but. You, know Tobe Hooper. Kept, making movies. and. With a lot of horror centric directors tend to get sidelined. And because of the danger of the industry maybe they're not. That John Mara is not really picked up and doesn't. Catches much weight. As the rest of it so I would bring up a lucky McKee. Do you remember the director look McKee yet may. And did a couple of other movies and was like the new hot guy on the on the horror block. Back in the early two thousands I to say yeah, and every he was a master of horror and he did one one of the episodes of masters of were and was never heard from again because he got pigeonholed into horror and he didn't deliver the next big thing in horror after that and so just disappeared and didn't get the producers on his side to produce. Next thing. Damn. Yeah and you don't hear Shit from Lucky Bikini more even though they is an incredible film. Yes it is I. Fucking love that that film and unfortunately even the actress that was in May got fucked by the success the minimal success of because you don't see here in shit besides the masters of horror episode that she's in with Lucky McKee shit. Yeah. Well I mean. I think we can chat up to Hollywood pigeonholing people pigeonholing for sure. Yeah and I think that this is a good time to talk about like what masters of horror was intended to do and what it did and what it could have done with the bigger budget because masters of horror was meant to give directors and opportunity to do what the fuck they wanted. Director. Did it and it didn't even make showtime because showtime was like Nah. It's not even it's too dark for even us was that. ME, K. K.. K.. So imprint. Yea Dan Ryan. I own that that version and yeah, it's it. He followed. It's one of those things of two huge with alter guys where he was like, okay. What do you guys want me to do and they're like Oh this this is the guidelines he was like cool. I'll follow every single guideline and he did and he still brought back something where they're like. We can't give this to American. Audiences. Garissa? was thrilled I like MC garrisons. So Medicare says the producer and make errors even though he has his faults. Really wanted to give horror film director. Wanted to be talked about in the same parlance. Directors in horror and I wouldn't say that he is as I don't know I don't think that he he wants to be talked about as a director like he mentioned himself as a director but I think that what he really enjoys is being a like A. Chronological person like a almost a recorder of horror like he likes being a mouthpiece to related the history of horror and he's like, yeah, I've directed stuff in. That's cool and that's what I did and I translated from these horror authors and I think that translating horror is his joy and that's where he he relates in both film and coming through whether unsuccessful but him as a producer and him as a an interviewer I both really enjoy fair because what he really wants to do. Is Give. Hard directors the rains because and in this capacity I very much identify with him. That horror is a genre that allows for fucking anything and. It is the Genera where like it mimics the The beats of comedy. So that's why Hara comedy often works well together when you have the right director, but within hard because it is such A. Subjugated Genre, you can explore so many. So many things. There's nothing that's really off limits with horror because already such. Such subjugated genre and I think that he wanted to give the people that saw their visions primarily through horror, the rains and. I wish that Tobe Hooper had had a little bit more. The problem is that I run into with him being the controller of masters of horror is the fact that. He didn't actually show the masters of horror. Of course, there were some Mike of Course conger, of course, Toby Hooper Yeah, they were Gordon Stewart. Gordon are definitely allowed to the table. There's no conversation about that at all but it was so dramatically American in their conversation about the masters of horror that when there was a non-american director, it was so horrifying that showtime was unwilling to show it, and then at the same time you've got John Landis who is only additions to horror was American Werewolf in London and the thriller. Video look. We don't have to master of horror in the first season. Are You fucking? Well, I have. The movie he killed he killed somebody. Yeah. He killed his main fucking character and not only that but we discussed they discussed this curse films where they talked about were they zone the twilight zone film where he? Essentially illegally hired children in promise the parents that they would be. Okay. So the parents were. With McKee Heading and murder of these over as much as I liked lucky McKee's edition of masters of horror. He only had may under his belt as at that point is addition of master or it was I there was like Beatles or something involved I think. That that they weren't actually doing masters of horrors whatever horror directors were around at the time and there were so many left out you the only director, the only foreign director as far as I know that was involved as Takashi Miki but you've got so many other fucking outside of of America directors and they didn't get married to do unto no Romero. But would he have consented within the bounds of what Romero likes to do probably could have been able to know Gento he did sick girl. Girl Yeah that sounds right with the same actress from. May. Yes. Yes. So I feel like it's worth mentioning. That also toby huber was huge into exploitation. Sure Yeah I mean obviously like Texas chainsaw eaten alive like there are all about exploitation. So. Out with shows like documentary of it was. Yeah. But I mean it definitely me as a child and went to those levels like last house on the left where it's just like extremes. So when it comes to him well, like what do we think about? Him being able to be in other genres. Cooper. Hooper and you know we got him like briefly and Saifi with I. Think he did Grayton Sifi because his life saying was phenomenal his Sifi pacing instincts for blending SCI FI and horror. In my opinion, his pacing his build up with lifeforce was almost impeccable. He he discussed it as a space opera which I've really only. Primarily heard star wars discussed as a space opera which. I could sell. In my opinion, I can sell this being a larger university because they talk about the main character being someone that is of their race, which is something that is worth exploring because he obviously has very little memories of and. I certainly wouldn't. Shun away from seeing. Mathilde mamie naked again But it is something that it starts off very slowly and you know even though I texted the group chat about you know today or Giger do the art for this. This is a giant space. Dick is that an aim is that sort of thing? Happens when one is drinking. So I didn't know you nat space. Why did I just now look up For me, it's more than that there. There's so many nineties era like thriller dramas. That, he could have kind of taken a part of you're talking about why? Because the grittiness of his filmmaking style would have worked with. The bone collector and and what's the one with a Sam Jackson as the the parent of Ashley Judd and then there's the Amazon Andy? Yes. Definitely and there's the one with Robert. Downey junior is like a weird like ghost person that have there's a bunch of weird like drama thriller. Is that are like bad but they're fun and Tobe. Hooper being able to be playful and also terrifying at the same time would have been able to inform that space at the same time and. Those types of thrillers don't happen anymore but also. Tobe hooper doesn't happen anymore. So my I think my seven is a missed opportunity. Get Toby to do like a bone collector or right or taking lives or Or something. Yeah. Yeah. Now, the knockoffs seven basically I feel like he got pigeonholed early on and it was hard for him to find his way out. Honestly through I don't necessarily in here. In Hollywood sense well, it was hard for him to like interview get out. That I've seen. He's talked about his appreciation and being in the horror genre I think he was comfortable in their Ralph. What's not a fucking the unity to I think post poltergeist is where there was so much producer control on what he did because they wanted another poltergeist that he didn't get to just be tobe hooper. and as fair, it's unfortunate. Pulled into the studio system it's. Kind of the same reason why Romero? Completely removed himself from the studio system after After monkey shines. Because of how much they fucked up his idea what he was planning on doing and turned out a bad property, which film was it that they had optioned Romero initially to there's a number. And ended up the they, they did add a number of films that they had him attached to and they didn't know but there's one in particular that they they had the discussed. No, it was salems lot excuse me Oh. That's Salem spot is the one where they had initially discussed. shooting. Romero. But when it transitioned to, but this is so long it may be a TV movie. He was like I'm not interested in that and balanced and tobe hooper then came onto the project and was like you know it just makes sense to me. I can see it as you know like. It was the beginning of breaking up Stephen King Properties because it's such a big fucking book. No ship. True. So and really honestly like that that callback turn the Nasra to style vampire. And the like the like, his gritty rendition of horror combined with like the throwbacks that we are experiencing and like slowly pushing into the future is one of the things that I think gives toby hooper longevity. All right. So We're going to wrap this episode up what we got from, toby? Hooper. As we got fucking scary ass clown doll, we got a kid swallowed by a tree. We got We got a girl in a meat hook and dude beaten by hammer and wakeling. The that's me as far as I know I inc of the chainsaw horror movie. Yeah. I mean, yeah Kinda, and now it's conic. I mean like exactly used in literally everything ever. Leather face. And we'll that's Tobe hooper I'll dead I. Mean that's what we've had the episodes about we got a space vampire sucking up people souls we got. What else we got we got we got a bunch of people fed to a crocodile classic freakshow actions. I didn't talk enough about crocodile don't see. It is terrible. I fucking hated. Lake placid knockoff with like subdued that looked like they. Were rejected from a sugary concert. It's bad luck and bad and we have a sexually pushy Mark Hamill Quasi like raping his wife and you might see stuff. It's terrible. Act As bodybags tobe hooper mixed bag. The more you know coming over. Shelby Hoover knew who the fuck he was. He was grady was on. And he was you know initially trying to trying to fly within the lines of the sensors to fuck what they thought. They knew and apart from that he was just like, yeah, you think this is with the sensors it is and guess what you're still going to have nightmares. fucking. Tober. Legend he passed in two thousand seventeen. Cheers we're gonNA miss that motherfucker. All right folks. Thank you so much for listening. Go the fuck home go shut the Fuck Up Roots Oh Runco. G. U. I. It's G You. Dot. com Sh-. Common. Straight from the mouths of madness I'm lowdown. I'm F you do you love Har we fucking do so this podcast dedicated to all things in cinematic car we're talking movies television composers, special effects, artists we're GONNA fucking covering Saviola Embrace the madness. It League. by movie studios that keep rehashing the same things. Only one podcast has the guts to make it even worse to Mike the Hobby as he traverses the Internet for you some of the best and worst ideas for remake we have not been social your favorite and least favorite. TV and feel properties ideas like a John Waters human. Task, force, reasonable and. Gone. Entirely Mary Nets what podcast bring evil upon the world this is spider chip available anywhere get your podcast. My name is Amy Bogarde I'm Mike The hobbit and we are the House of deeply upsetting where we use our expertise to answer your most upsetting hypothetical laundries such as what non Wigan animal deserve swings and what body part deserves. A secret mouth, which scripted is the worst roommate these questions and more that plague will be answered on deeply upsetting available anywhere you get your podcasts and podcasts, dot com.
Interview With Author & Speaker Tim Hooper
"I'm Michelle Schaffer. You're listening to the sold out entrepreneur. Podcast I'm a mom. An author radio host. I built a multimillion dollar business in network marketing. And I do it all powered by faith. I'm totally sold out for Christ. I'm committed to pouring into you all that. I've learned an an learning right here. Are you ready? Let's do this. Welcome back to the PODCAST. I'm so excited. I'm doing something that I haven't done in a while. an interview. And I'm doing an interview with somebody literally sitting right next to me here in the podcast studio slash my office in my home and I'm so excited we've actually talked about doing a podcast together for a year at least at least a year and So it's actually coming to fruition my guest on the podcast today. This name is Tim Hooper. He is an author. He's a speaker. He's a leadership coach. He is one of the most energetic transformational people you'll ever meet. I have his book sitting in front of me got energy This is a five hundred plus word page book however it is about to morph as what we is about to morph into a series of four books which I think is wildly profound that you could write one book. That is so chock full of content and valuable life changing information that it has the ability to actually transform into four separate books He is my friend him and his wife are here at our home. And you'RE GONNA fall in love with them. Welcomed him. Well thank you Michelle. I appreciate it. And what a blessing they say you become like the people you hang around so if I am anything. Energized is because I hang out with you and bobby well I would say that. Maybe that's true or also could have something to do with the. How many cups of coffee have you had already working on? The this is one and a half so the half. I'm stoked because you know we Tim is you know. Been in the business of helping people to transform lives. Coaching people working people to help grow their businesses to help grow themselves to he is the publisher of both of my books and actually You know some of my friends as well. If you haven't picked up redefined yet. Go on Amazon type in redefined. Michaud Schaeffer in put in your car order today Oh well thank you please do. That Amazon keeps sending Me Book Recommendations for my own book. We found something you might like. Well thank you. I do like it. Definitely transformational and just walking through. I know my wife and I we were going through a time in our life and one of the chapters specifically the Charter of darkness. A just spoke to us. And and really set us up for expecting a breakthrough. And just you know. Thank you for that the book. Gosh thank you. Thank you so much for to saying that. Well I'm stuck because you know in in the world that we've been in for a number of years personal development spiritual development It's always about keeping the main thing the main thing and we do all these other things you have all these other little titles right like your coach. You're an author. You're a publisher. You're all these things but really. There's an underlying theme with everything. There's an underlying goal and I like to say to keep the main thing the main thing and so tim. You have so many amazing things going on and Gosh your vision. Your Jen's vision for the future is huge with all the things you WANNA do. Impact the world. But what I really would like to discuss. Today is kind of how as a person of faith. How does that impact what you do how you do it and like are you okay? So here's the real question. Let's start here. We go to church on Sunday. Most people if people of faith we try to right. Maybe you do. Maybe don't so I feel like sometimes as believers people are a person on Sunday and then on Monday they go to their job and then Mike hears my faith. Here's my business. So have you do you kind of combine the two? Is it all one in the same? And if so how is that? Just kind of impact what you do so I think when you when you think about faith a lot of times we confuse it with religion and so I think Elias. Times on Sunday what we're experiencing is religion and not relationship. And so why would I carry that out on Monday and Tuesday Wednesday throughout the week? I think when your faith walk chain changes to I mean when we say faith and we don't mean religion we actually mean faith in God that we have access to him through Christ and we're in right standing with him you know no judgment loving initially and when we look at how that changes things for us I think then we can't carry it out throughout the week. I think whenever we see a person were seen a relationship at some point along the process whether they're relate relationship with us or somebody else or or maybe they're hurting her. They're going through something in there. Not Relating to God through this they. They're searching for hope. I think then we can look at it and say God. What's my assignment here? And I think I don't know I think when it changes from again religion to relationship then it starts transforming free day part of WHO. You are exactly exactly. It's not separate. I'm I like to think of it like this. I feel like especially in the world of personal development of speaking of transformation of their many relationships are transactional their transactional relationships but when we go from having transactional relationships to having transformative relationships and that for me is always because of the way that that Christ loves me and how out of that it's an outpouring of I just automatically want to love people like that and I want them to know about it like I see people and they struggle and I was thinking. Gosh. I don't even know how people stay married. That aren't believers marriage is hard enough as it is but then I think about in the world of business you know. I think that I'm even doing an event at the church and we're having vendors and people are super uncomfortable with it but it's like why can't we put God in everything that why hasn't gotten everything we do? Why are we putting people businesses? Got All these little boxes and I think to society kind of has this grip. Hold on us the pressure that they put to you know the separation right it. Some don't makes you know religion in your work. A Sir you know respect and tolerate everybody which is which is fine in theory but the thing about it is what God has done for me to get to give me a a refresh in my life in a restart and really the desire to live and live abundantly Were once I wasn't I was better. I was depressed. I was in a very dark place and to have brought me to a place where I could forgive the people who are wrong to me where I could move past. You know. It's interesting. We we live in a a very you know a self help world right in. It's a very individualistic culture. And I feel feel like sometimes even that has elevated our ability to crawl out of stuff to kind of make ourselves into God if you will and I and I really struggle there because you know I was at a point in my life. I read all the books I knew all this stuff and I still had no motivation for life. I had no sense of direction of purpose or even want to it. Just you know what screw it all but you know what God did for me with say you know. I've called you to a greater purpose. I have given you the power to forgive to in when you cannot see how this forgiveness will make any sense for you or anybody else. Why forgive them? God Says No. I've given you the power and you trust my divine purpose in this and when you forgive and then you start seeing transformation happen when you offer grace and you have nothing. Promised in return when you start living life at that level. It's a very faith level. Then you have no angle. He started become. This pureness starts shining through you. This love unconditional. You're basically you're I call it being healed and then full like you gotTa. He'll is like a vessel. If Vesa was cracked in Newport something and it leaks out the cracks so Healing is is like becoming whole and then once your whole then you can become filled once. You're filled then you can overflow and that's the way work halt as believers to live in. It's not us because then when it's when it's not about us what we're building our ego whatever then you know what nothing. Nothing seen stops us from loving people so with F F for instance. If I'm not lunch with a client right now I work in corporate America all the time in fact my book. I put my testimony in the last chapter and preface the chapter by saying I understand if you're corporation bought this book for everybody. I have people order thousands of my books for a speaking engagement. Well I wanted to be respecting of Corporate America. My faith testimonies in there but I prefaced the chapter by saying I understand if they would do they would rather me not share this. Just going to tell you this chapter here. It has my faith journey so that way. I'm asking their permission in a way if I'm sitting at lunch with somebody and they say so. What's your story? I'll just simply ask in. I'll say do you want the professional version or the personal version? I'm just going to caution. You the personal version has my faith journey in there. You know what Michelle. I've never had somebody say they wanted a professional journey or the professional version. Why ask that question interesting? But the fact of the matter is I got the permission to share my faith so you can be very gracious but you can also allow your faith to permeate everything you do and I think that speaks volumes to people. I mean bobby and I have tried to live in a way that We don't have to wear shirts. That say Jesus. Freak for people to know that that's not that I wouldn't Johnson. What did John say? When they'll they'll they'll know you're my disciple by your love for one another not by the Hashtag on your shirt in fact along with the Hash tag on their shirt and they cut me off and traffic raise their hands up or whatever I'm like. Oh my goodness advertising for the wrong team you know. Did you say that because you were that verse? That you just Oh. I did a while right right here in your studio John. Thirteen thirty five by this. All men will know that you're my disciples if you have love one another. That's fantastic. Tell like that I talk about just that one heart. That does a lot of this. Knocked my socks off and so you know my kind of mantra. This year is love. People love people well and that doesn't for me. I know it's the same for you. Tim and for. Gen The way that you guys live. Your Life. It has nothing to do with whether you're working in Corporate America or you're coaching somebody or whether you're helping paint the walls of the church that's just that's just your mantra and I have a friend. His name is Steve Farber. He wrote Oh It's love is good business. Or that's the tagline. I can't remember but his whole message is that you know loving peoples good business. It really is. How can you go wrong if if you're treating people with that kind of respect and grace and Honoring them in that way. And you know you and Jenner now reaping the benefits of years and years of planning seats adding value loving on people. I'm so happy for you. Thank you My brother similarly has this Sane at his company they give out of they give out you know vitamins. They about coaching and all his health coaching and everything. And he said. But there's vitamin WE GIVE. You can't buy on a shelf. And he's called vitamin L Vitamin Love. That give C Vitamin D. He makes you get vitamin L. Make sure you're giving your clients vitamin L in it. So in one of his slogans to is. We're you know you you read this story in scripture where Jesus comes on the scene and either it was somebody who was a castaway somebody in society has. They said you're you're the untouchable. Go out go to stay away. Stay way away and so. They were the untouchable. Well Jesus would show up in those environments and a lot of times wasn't recognized by that person as as Jesus and maybe like the woman after well he perceives he. He's a prophet and in yet it was it was he. The words he spoke. We're not words of condemnation of enlightenment. They awards of power and they words of love and he would give people a complete restarting Hugo Sin. No more he would give them a complete New Vision for their life of who they were the our identity in Christ so and then also you look at him. After the resurrection he came back to the disciples and even Even they were blinded. They didn't even recognize him until he broke the whole walk to amaze they didn't even know it was him walking along with them until he broke bread and their eyes were open. And so I just my brother. He says Tim were called to be Jesus in disguise. We are called like our business a lot of times. I think in business. We're so passionate building a business. We actually get stuck there. We get stuck building something. Our thing. Our Egos wrapped around it are empire whatever it is and in fact if we keep things in eternal perspective he says seek first the kingdom. What is the Keenum of God his righteousness? That's restoring men reconciling people to God if we keep that in perspective than it doesn't matter whether I'm building this today or that today it's all a cover I call it. I tell you it's all a cover. The physical human tangible business is Ju- It should be a front for the king now and so and not not. I do know it's just it's Iraq I recognize. I keep my priorities in line that this is all temporary and everything I do so when somebody wrongs me I can forgive them and move on even if it hurts me on my bottom line. I don't have to go through them. I don't have to go. I can treat them with complete grace and love not being a doormat but being setting boundaries but being love inaction forgiveness in action offering grace continually every single day. Because I'm called to love people so just keeping keenum. I don't you find like okay. So the world. This is literally the opposite of what the world would say. Take Care of you watch out for you. You know the bottom line is is the most important thing. But don't you find that when you flip that on its head like what you just said? Life is actually easier like you have less stress. Yes sometimes the IT hurts the Eagle. Let's be honest. Ego went to forgive some money. That's wrong you. When they haven't even asked for forgiveness it can. It can hurt the ego to to set up a boundary and those things. They can like as a human being with emotions. Those things can hurt. But when you actually when it's real when you really forgive and stuff like it actually set you free in a way that that revenge and getting back at people it it doesn't just it keeps it going and you never get to heal or we wanna be we want. We want vindication we want validation and sometimes when somebody's wrong you don't feel like there's closure you don't feel like whatever so to give it over to God to actually trust him to handle it takes faith it. Does you have to you have to make that conscious choices. Say I'm giving this to you. I've had many moments in my life. For God's basically broken down stop in my tracks made me wait which. I don't like to wait very impatient. And he stopped me said No. I'm going to put you in a scenario. You do nothing. And all he's basically saying is let it go give it to me because what is he saying like set your affection. That's your heart your emotion on things above not all things on this earth like is my affection whereas my heart wear my emotions flowing is like wow and then you'll trust more with all your heart. Lean not to your own understanding. I'm like how many times do I linked to my own understanding my own logic trying to figure it out like every day. Yeah so it's just having a cognitive task time with God say guy where right now my am. I you know maybe getting caught up in this in. What's temporary and not saying we shouldn't steward. What God's given us? Oh my goodness no. He's put us here and we make everything we do glow in blossom for his glory but realizing that he ultimately is in control I think task ourselves to too often with too much and in instead of Stain abundant in open to what he's leading and that my father spoke recently divine interruptions. And just the way God who like completely take your schedule your plan. The they're control freaks of the world like goodness me being one of them. I just take your plan to say here. Let's shove that. Let's put this person in here and you're like what good is this GonNa do? This makes no business sense. Whatever and then all of a sudden you stop you say wow God. You're putting this person right here for me for this. You know divine intervention and then you start talking and you get the email later. That's like Tim. I can't tell you at once. Meant like your conversation. When the unionists come into my life at this point you get these things and it's like confirmation after confirmation the God fingerprints in Your Life. If you'll just surrender it so yeah. I mean them I it kingdom. I always always and you know and it doesn't have to be this thing where you're not people over the head with a Bible. It can just be you know the the way that you love in business. It's the way that you interact with. People in. The grocery store is the fact that you push the cart back into the place where the carts go instead of leaving them in between the pet. Be I if your mother when you have little children. It's really difficult but now that I don't have little children. I wish that thinking cart back every time I was like. Are you a personal cart back or not told me a lot about you know but to me? That's that is a way that I can tangibly respect to me like doing the right and another thing too. Is I think why towns we miss. We miss that you know when when we when we come to Christ first off. He says he he draws us. So if you if you went to Christ at some point and saying I'm yours like take take me. I'm I repent instead of working. This thing out my own way living this life for my glory. I'm coming to you I want you. I need repentance from my sin the judgment that bound in and I'm in your accepting Christ whatever that look like for you. I think what we forget. A lot of times is the spiritual nature of that. It WASN'T US. Saving are coming to cry. It was Christ reaching on us and simply saying yes in that moment the spirit now dwells us and I think we lose a lot of times that spiritual aspect of who we are in Christ we are joint heirs with Christ me and we are sealed with his spirit and in John goes into the with the disciples constantly about you know he's he says. Don't worry about what you're going to say. Don't don't worry about right and all this stuff down in fact I think so many times. We're we're trying to crow quote scripture and we should know scripture and live in scripture. And there's so much edification and wisdom and his spirit still speaks. That's what makes scripture a living book. Today his spirit interprets it into our hearts for the needs that we have emotionally mentally spirit then in today right now so that so vital but I think oftentimes we forget that the spirit dwells us so if we're sitting in a conversation in a conference room if we're about to make difficult phone conversation when have we asked the Spirit Lord. Give me direction like use my mouth as your piece like this. Is your tongue like us that when you're sitting in with somebody who's going through depression what should I say to them letting him guide you those moments because there are so many times? I have struggled award in fact I give up. Get up to give a keynote speech and so many times got has taken some of my slides and literally impressed my heart. You're not using the or that point you're GonNa Change. You're going to go this direction and I'm sitting there going. Okay I'm your vessel and then you get into the audience and you know and then when the tears happened Michelle. It's when I put in the piece he gave me Yep and not went through my regular spiel and saw my. Wow so let's not lose the spiritual nature like he said he is empowering us and so on and so speaking him into those situations right and listening to any says stop. I want you go over and talk to that person. I want you to ask the waiter. This question or the waitress this question a look that Barista over that look see her. See that look in her eyes. Dim the lights off like something's on her life. Now if we would just listen more. I don't do a good job. I just listened more. I think we'd start seeing that. Wow this is a kingdom. This is a kingdom thing. Well I'm glad that you said that and I if this podcast can do anything for you listening. I hope it will do one thing and then I'm GonNa ask you ask you a final question here. Tim But I hope that this podcast will do. One thing. And Newell like rewind. The podcast back to what Tim said if see. I believe that God is speaking to us all the time. All the time But I think that for most people. They don't trust that they're thinking. Oh It's me or oh I don't WanNa do that. I'm embarrassed or I'm GonNa feel stupid or that person's GonNa feel stupid. I want to embolden you that when you get these small little voices some this urge that comes across you or you happen to. Tim Said you just happen to notice something out of the blue somebody that look. Sadder is hurting I think in society. We've become afraid to speak out and speak into people but I. If I could do anything to you today. It would be this to listen to that and to go forth to that person or do the thing. That's being impressed on you with courage boldly and here's the thing always said. I'd rather be wrong and look stupid. I'd rather be wrong. I'd rather like okay. God that wasn't you. I just looked like a fool then. Miss it altogether and somebody that needed so desperately to hear a word of encouragement or have a hand touched on their shoulder or have a hug or get prayed for. I'd rather be wrong and so when you're feeling that please listen to it. It means something in it is the Holy Spirit in you. Giving you a little nudge that somebody needs the hands and feet of God and that's what we are. We're the hands and feet of were not doing. Nobody is like it literally falls on us to be the hands and feet. So thank you for that. Tim I'm going to ask you a final question here. I like to do this when I have interviews on and you and make like seven hours. So we're GONNA try and make up the actual thirty to forty minute. Podcast of the final question will literally be like a second podcast within the podcast but So if you could give like a tip. It could be an over an overarching tip. That could be just like. How'd it like a transformational tip to start today? You're somebody's listening to the PODCAST. They have a dream in their heart. Tim They don't know what to do they don't know where to go. They feared they feel insecure but they know transformation needs to happen in their life. Financially spiritually Maybe even physically What's what's what's your advice for them. So the HASHTAG. Can you imagine that Hashtag is bonus mindset? And I'll tell you what I mean by that so when I was twenty five I was in a good job. I had a wonderful family. My wife loves me. We had our third child on the way pouches. I was struggling deep down inside. I was bitter is empty. Church looked good on the outside. In fact all the time getting embrace you have a beautiful family. I mean it just just looked the part but I just knew. There's this void has addicted to very fearful low confidence. I feel like I could go after I knew. I had something deep inside god-given and I didn't think I could go. After that. My Twenty Fifth Birthday. It dawned on me and long story but to make sure it dawned on me. That was sixteen. My brother died and he was twenty five when he died so on that day. My birthday February fifteenth. Now seven years ago it just hit me. He did not get the chance to live past this year. Why should I I could just hit me and if I do get the chance to live past what what what do I have to show for it so I decided that day? I mean it really changed me. It was like this reawakening if you will and was really God ordained 'cause I looked up and I was very distant from God. I was in church but I was just a religious practice. It just was part of the look good on the outside and so I looked up to God and I said God. If you're there show yourself to me and if that I encourage anyone listening pray that prayer I mean we. We WanNa task ourselves with so much tasks this great big God with coming through on his promises like tests he says all the time test me. Prove me try me. Look up and say God if you're there show yourself to me many of you out there. You profess faith. You don't really believe in God because when's the last time you just you tested them. When's the last time you actually talked to him? And I'm calling myself out on this. Because how many times do I go throughout the day or week without consultant with him bringing them into the scenario asking his wisdom on something it was like Corrie? Ten Boom said you know. Is God your spare tire or or the steering wheel so in in in everything I guess why where I say you know for me. It was saying God. I'm tired of living mediocre. I'm tired of just living this existence that I know you've called me to for what he say. I've come to give you life and have it more abundantly wasn't experiencing that and so I said God I need that so I decided that day and with with knowledge in with this awakening comes responsibility and God gave me not. I had to go take this like crazy. I I did at first and I can tell you I started a million things and got into all sorts of things thinking I needed to change everything. News one day and really what war Her and myself out really quickly but I had a remember was there is responsibility. But there's also rest in that there's rhythms of rest in that responsibility and so saying God. What do you want from me so I went back to school? I started writing my book. There was thing is that I just decided that I was in my book. Had to get had overcome fear of publishing a story and things addiction and things that I was struggling with that I knew other men and other women could overcome if they had if they knew my story given them permission. I love what you said What's your favorite quote? You use all the time is that's other truth. Sets other people free but you know. I actually wrote my book then. I waited a little while I procrastinate publishing because all now I'm putting like it was so funny. What stops you in? You look back to? That really stopped me but I was so afraid of people like in my church like reading my book. The funny thing is like nobody for my church. It's like those aren't the people it was supposed to be written for so the and I'm not saying nobody someday but you think that everything stops you in front of you. All these paper giants. It's crazy but by God was like Tim. I'm calling you more so for me that day when I- reawakened what hit me was I made this commitment everyday past twenty-five I was going to look at as a bonus Like think about it this way if you died today and I don't want to be like Morbid but if you died today like nothing else happens for you. That is no dreams. No Book No podcast. No business idea no reaching out to somebody else encouraging text message. No more mom to the kids know more. Not all the good things you have going on or the good ideas about things you want to have gone on. None of that happens if you died today. So if you wake up tomorrow and you take only one tiny little step forward in any of those directions like you just did. You just made it better. You just made the world better because you took one tiny step so when I wake up every morning I purpose that even if I feel back pain I don't feel like getting up or somebody might completely rejected me yesterday instead of like living in that vicious cycle instead of like all that. I just says that every day was going to be a refresh like a bonus like I was not like when I lay down as I die and when I wake up. It's like here's another day. This is a bonus. If you've got a bonus check what are you? Spend it on like the fun stuff right you sweat on Xtra. I go somewhere I got bonus extra so I want you to wake up tomorrow with Hashtag bonus mindset like. This is a bonus. My coach says there's no such thing as a new year. 'cause we can't live a year at a time right. It's a new day so there's never a New Year like twenty twenty starts today. Twenty Twenty Asian does so funny we big New Year. All's opportunity now you got one day. Tomorrow's an anti guarantee and in the past will only hold you back the good bad and ugly of the past. Some of us are holding onto our successes of the past and they're holding us back. Some of us are holding onto pain and guilt. And it's holding us back so forgive the past make plans for the future and Scheldt fully present today with a bonus mindset. I'm obsessed with that and so you're GonNa see me Hashtag that all the time. At that time I have I love it. And so tim do me a favor. Tell people that are listening to those. Podcasts how they can connect with you. What's coming up for you? I know for sure that you can get his book. Got Energy on Amazon. Even though it's morphing but they can still get the original. The original one four books in one really changed on the cover four books and one and what else tell people where they can find you and stuff. So yeah thank you. The best way is instagram and instagram. In the morning and the evenings I get on and get off so within lessons so handles real easiest tim in my. Melania show is e as an Edgar. Don't ask about the name and then Is My GRANDPA's name is a very very very classy name just dignified older older name but And then hooper so but you put it all together and it's pretty cool. It's time hooper. So Tom Hooper in fact all my platforms are time. Hooper. So and then what's coming up you asked about what's coming up. Well I'm sitting here with you. Learn how to podcast so Look look for a podcast my wife and I we've really Y- taken a lot of what she's worked with women and Confidence Coaching and relationship building in what I'm doing in business and we're more morphine. Some of that. So what we're doing together with our leadership retreat and stuff you'd be watching for some of that pipe advertising podcast online and her show to the same so but anyway my podcast is soon come out like. Michelle said my books there republishing in four so. It'd be smaller bite sized pieces. They've got energy like volume one. It will it'll be got energy and then got perspective and the owner shop got accountability. Yeah the formula so anyway excited about that so yeah time time. Hooper follow me over there on instagram and try and follow you back or like your stuff and stay connected there. That's amazing I appreciate you you you just got a little bit of him and so go fallen for sure on instagram. And just keep up with them and soon as his podcast is out. Of course I will be I will be promoting big time. Both him and his wife Jen's podcast. 'cause I'm so excited for them. To just have their voice have the volume turned up on their voices and impact more lives and So for you guys I just want to say. Thank you for listening. You know it's always the biggest compliment you could ever give me is to Share the podcast with somebody if this added value to you of course you can find me on instagram teen. Mom Two million or follow me. I'll be I'll be friends with you. I WanNa talk to you and I wanNA hear how this podcast impacted you or You know maybe some of the things that that you if you are a person of faith and how you kind of integrate that into your business or your job. It's a big deal. I mean we need to stop making it a taboo thing. Of course you can go and download by seven day devotional On Michelle Schaffer Dot Com. And you know I just love to connect with the. I've gotten some really amazing feedback already this year on some of the PODCASTS and It just fires me up. I love to hear your stories and I love to get to know each of you individually. So thank you very much Tim for joining me today. And thank you for listening until next time.
#123 Wendy Hooper Ross: Life After Loss
"It's cutting into your exercise time it stabbing you in the back nine and it's attacking your peace of mind. It's pain and it's getting in between you and the life. If you want to live CD medic target your pain at its source. It's fast acting relief with active. OTC ingredients plus the added benefits of THC free hemp oil get get back to your life with CBD medic available online and at CBS these statements have not been evaluated by the FDA. This product is not intended to diagnose treat cure or prevent any disease. Welcome everybody's time once again for the next chapter with Charlie hedges as he explores turning the page on his life and yours. Hey Charlie early. Hey Paul it's nice to be back as my first day back from two weeks in Africa in which we will do another show on talking about the poorest of the poor people that live on one dollar to two dollars a day and and we provide water for them but most of you know that and we'll talk more on but today I'm excited because we are privileged to have with us. Wendy Hooper Ross a successful is for real estate agent and a residential market analyst that is an expert in her field but we're not going to talk about real estate today a we're going to talk about a subject. That's GonNa Affect. Most all of US Wendy's Wednesday. St- Wendy story will certainly resonate eight with us as we discuss loss grief and recovery now wendy met her future husband at an industry event in two thousand eleven and soon became incredibly close friends over the next years they finally admitted that they were made for each other there and began their romance in early two thousand seventeen soon after all though her husband's cancer which had been in remission remission for nearly three years came back and they went into a headlong battle together. It became clear in two thousand seventeen. He was losing his fight and then they were married and forty one days later he was gone. and Wendy writes. I lost my love and my dearest friend that day now a new life begins and today we are going to talk with Wendy about las about grief about recovery so wendy welcome to the next chapter with Charlie. Thank you Charlie. It's good to have you with us. and you are certainly right now in the process of figuring out your next chapter. Aren't you absolutely yeah. I'm a work in progress. Well we are working. We all are working process but progress but you are yeah. I'm deep in deep reinventing. My personal self my life my business. Everything is touched by this. You know you're you're not left unscathed and you don't I in my opinion I I. I don't think I'll ever be who I was before. How's that who were you before. And who will you become rather than then then answer that directly when I think of when you ask me. The question is it's like a tree in a forest dismiss scorched by a forest fire. It survives the fire. You know but decades later if you cut that tree down you're still going to see that dark ring where the fire had happened him there. It's forever changed it just becomes part of it and I think this type of grief and loss loss or any trauma becomes part of your DNA sort of and it colors who you are not necessarily positively or negatively but it just does yes and it becomes part of your nature you know and I think it's going to affect my decisions in my thoughts and my feelings in some mm capacity forever. I think that's a brilliant analogy of escorts tree and we're going to talk about that in in N. As as as we proceed but I really liked that because it always is a part of you and never never ceases to be a part of the you grow you move on but you don't lose that party. We're GONNA talk about that more I wanted. I wanted to begin the show by talking about it's interesting how we met and that was a crazy story. We're both members at a business club called the center club and I prepare all my podcasts at the club every Wednesday so I'm there. I'm there a minimum of of weekly for three or four hours or or longer and after several months I noticed that you seem to be friends with everybody in the club. You're you're always talking to somebody different and so I said to myself. This must be someone that I don't know who it is. So I- I boldly Woodley approach to you and introduce myself and ask who the hell are you anywhere colitis everybody now you and yeah and you know everybody in and you sit there and in and chat with them and and then you told me the story and after your story. I knew I had to have you on the show so so here we are are and and I would like to you know I am typically known for. I don't have soft entries. I start right into the we start right into the nitty gritty you because that was the soft intro now. Now I sorry Wendy your relationship with Mick was intense and unusual and I am curious stew for you to talk about the relationship and also most interestingly why you decided to marry sorry when you knew he had little time remaining like forty one and that is that is the burning question. I get asked that a lot of I'm sure so. Tell me about your relationship. I I think grand I I it was a grand relationship and our friendship was epic. Nick and the reason that I think our marriage was so special was because we spent so many years just being friends we had no intention of you know having a romantic the antics whatever with each other because we truly were friends and respected that we were in different relationships with other people so the whole artifice that comes when with men and women when they meet each each other and they know that they're single and then posturing begins and you worry about how you look and what you say there was none of that we were completely unclouded and unaffected and and very very real. We gave each other just massive amounts of grief. You know I was constantly giving him grief and he was constantly giving me a hard about what he he he he started what he called Tuesday night and boys night out with some people he used to work with because he didn't lose touch with them. Because that's the kind of guy he was so I started grousing saying well. I WANNA I go. I want to be one of the boys I can hang with the guys and they said Okay and you know they interviewed me for their group in the process and I became one of the the hazing process. It was funny. How men Hayes a women a woman in today's society thinking that group it was really more a matter of they would say things things trying to shock me. NFL turned crimson or something they would have rejected me but I just bandied it back to them. It's like Oh come on you. Can't you can't rock me. I'm good I got this. I'm what did what did you tell me at the table because we were using language that we don't normally use on the show but you said your. F- what I did. I say I speak F two. I speak speak F too because I was using the F. Word and then I looked at you and I apologize you know I speak. F- TO A real-estate carpet bomb some days yeah. That's that's that's great so so your relationship really started as a French. It's really what was the what was the change or what what what made you do. I remember the moment remember the exact moment because Mick was one of my dearest friends. He worked in a field that was related to mind. He was in real estate. Finance Manson is old houses that we went together and I was introducing a few other people that were very close friends of mine that I was shocked. I had not introduced to one another other so I arranged a small get together really informal over at a local restaurant and bar and said I want you guys to come and meet each other because I adore all of you and respect what Oh you do professionally and I'm remiss in you haven't met each other and I I I don't know somehow made a mistake and when I was texting the confirmation about where to meet and what time I included mic on that text chain he wasn't invited but he was one of my closest friends and he knew all these the four other people as well he had met them so he came along which was great. We're all they're having our drinks. Chatting the people that were introduced to win another for the first time got along swimmingly as I knew they would and I sat back and I watched mic be uncharacteristically uncharacteristically not do like and he was relaxed didn't talk over anyone didn't have off to one up whatever anybody had said about their accomplishments and their business didn't have to interject anything at all but he would quietly get up grabbing empty drank and go to the bar refill it for them so that they wouldn't. NFL interrupt the flow of what they were doing. He just slid into this role of CO hosting this get together with me without. I don't even think thinking about it. It just was naturally inherently who he was on a sat there looking at him and admiring what he was doing and for the first time in a very long time. I looked at him I I saw him. I looked at him as a man and I was like this man is beautiful and wonderful endear and smart and a lovely human being and he's single. What am I doing. What's the matter with me yeah so I asked him out no I did. I did good you really high. Ask Him to actually that that meeting that afternoon I had to leave because I was on my way to have dinner with someone else and as I was getting into my car I I was thinking I don't WanNa. Go out with this clown. Go Out with Mick so I pulled out my phone and texted him right then and there and said I wanna go on a date with you and mind you. This is after you know six years of true friendship and he texted me right back and said you mean you want to go to dinner and I texted back. No I want to go on a date all caps with you. So what did you do radio silence five or six hours later. He finally texted me back and said okay. I'm in no amazing. He sounds like a very you know the way you're talking about him that he didn't you what what's and tried to interject in that so much to take to take over in that in in that conversation. He was a very secure man. He was so comfortable in his own skin. Yes that's a that's a term we use a lot on the show is comfortable in in your own skin you would have liked and what is it would. I would've loved Him and part of the reason that I am so well known at the Club is because when Mick was well wasn't very long after we were together he would come to the club with me and everyone fell in love with him. He was just one of those people six foot four booming Ozzy Ozzie voice always laughing always smiling appreciated everyone. Everything isn't that typically ozzy just they are are. They are so fun yeah. They're just just just incredible to be with yeah and I I shouldn't call him is he's actually American Eriksson but he's a military brat and because his father was a career air corps man who is in Korea and then Vietnam his mother mother took him and his sister to Australia area where she had family so she wouldn't be alone raising them so he was an American. US citizen raised in Australia he adopted adopted that culture you you know and that way of being but then when he was seventeen years old wanted to be like dad and came back to the US enlisted in the Marines and served the US as a marine because he had a very strong sense of right and wrong and doing your duty and doing right for others. It was just who he was so. It's like a wonderful man great guy i. I'm sad I didn't get an opportunity to meet him now now. Let's talk about this. This getting married varied when you know that it's not going to be a lifelong marriage. I'm a well long lasting right right right very short time left well. There's there's two sides to this coin. I one of the dear friends I mentioned to you. That was in that get together. is one of my dearest friends as well and he's a trust and probate attorney and Mick and I had just bought a house together before we realized that he was terminally ill and our attorney friend said you know you need to get married. You really really do it. It's going to help you so much through the probate madness and you're you're going to have enough grief to deal with that you don't we let's minimize as much as we can and make an. I talked about about it and and I decided if I couldn't have him at least I have his name yeah yeah and that and that it's it's sort of it's sort of coalesced into even deeply in your relationship and and your commitment to one another and that it was formalize yeah yeah. It was amazing a dear friend of ours. Was it the one thing so we decided on Tuesday August. I twenty eighth last year that we were going to get married. We went down and got the license and everything the next evening the twenty ninth we were remarried home and the next the next evening and the next day so we had about thirty six hours we had told our friends look we're going to get married and so the next day friends came over and we had a ceremony that they could see and participate in even though we have been married the day before and a friend of mix livestream. Dr Wedding on Facebook so that makes sister and brother-in-law niece and cousins and whatnot around the world could see it and so all of our other friends couldn't be there. I was Eh Dinner Party last week with another attorney dear friend of mine she's lovely and I've a friend met through her and haven't seen in ages came. Running across thrones me threw her arms around me and whispered in my ear. I watched you get married. It was it's amazing. How many people were touched by that because he was so frail. By then he lost over one hundred pounds he was too weak to stand so we had chairs on our back deck and we sat there under the garlands that we throw up and the lights and got married in front of all of our friends he was barely able to speak because he had throat cancer and after the wedding and after we were financed as husband and wife he's chewed up and and you'll have to watch this video. Oh barely was able to croak the words out. I am so blessed to be surrounded by friends and family who love me during the good times like this. The man was dying and couldn't help describe that as a good day he must've loved you deeply hate. Ted Got it done. I think having forty one days of marriage like that is better than having forty years of a bad one. Oh my goodness are you kidding. Forty years of a bad one is now. It'd be hell that is that yeah yeah yeah and and and forty one years of marriage marriage is difficult. You know you're going to have your wonderful times. Is your cat and you're going to have your times of you. Know conflict which is can you know can be years years after forty years. It was a little bit lucky. We didn't have time to are you happy. People you know obviously there was there is difficulty I mean he he became so ill just watching watching someone that you love suffer because it was in his throat so he could no longer swallow so he had a feeding tube installed in stomach and all of his meds had to go in there and the cancer was going up into his brain and we figured it was messing with his nervous utter so we couldn't manage his pain so even when when he became inarticulate and he couldn't speak anymore couldn't communicate with me anymore. You could see basic see him. Writhing in pain and forty one days was enough you you must've been such a great pleasure for him to for whereas final days to be married to you and have someone that he's loved that he loves and loves him in those final things. That's quite admirable. It taught me about how I want to be when I pass. Obviously we're all dying. We're all GONNA die and I hadn't spent any time really thinking about what I wanted that to look like I didn't spend a lot of time thinking about what it needed to look like for Meg. I was too busy being in it. and thank goodness as I look back. I don't have regrets I. I feel like I did the best I possibly could and I do think he had he most wanted and it wasn't just me. It was the dog my gosh. He may have married me for my dog. He I loved that dog and that dog loves him but there are many times when he was no longer conscious or coherent but he would read hand out and he would grab the dog's paw and he would hold the dog's paw. The dog would just lay there with them. Oh my I've got fed is that will just make your heartache you will the story makes my heart ache but but I am I am I am really impressed with you and to give a gift to mick and him being able to return that gift gift even even though he was limited in what he could do that he can return that gift and so those are just a magical forty-one days until until I'm sure it just got almost unbearable it was it was fun. It was not scared. A few people there was there was a petite little nurses that are probably still cursing my name because I was a bit of a pit bull. Were you know as a bit of a pit bull there were there was one time around midnight because I was up every hour producing him or or supervising dosing of medications and things in one of the nurses didn't give him enough morphine and he started writhing in pain and when a six foot four body starts thrashing rationed random bed they end up on the floor you know so. I was trying to control him and I was screaming at her. I'm sure I've probably scarred her for life might be. I doubt that you're you're too kind I I I can't you know you might have been tough but but you're you too kind to be to be someone that would scar someone for life glad to hear that. I have about a year ago I came across the writings and public speaking she's done. Ted Talks of Pauline Rolling boss and I I want to read to you an extended quote and on radio extended quotes are always very difficult so I will I will keep them short. I was just trying to figure out how to turn off the sound on my computer and and Pauline boss came up with a concept that's called ambiguous loss and it's it's it's really you know we chatted very briefly this afternoon about it and and I I think it's it's utterly profound and I really want your take on it and it is written of her that through her writings and public speaking family therapist and professor Pauline boss whose book is titled Ambiguous Loss Us Speaks Boldly on the myth of closure and that is that is so anti-american you know. Oh exactly you know. We're always talking closure but it it. It's like your tree see you. Your the tree is still going to have that that dark ring around it when it was burned right and so it doesn't get closure on it but it's nevertheless. Seles keeps growing right you know I think I think if you if you're so devastated by that it completely stops your life life. Then you need help you then you need any group help perhaps therapy or the friends finding things to do but but you have not face that but anyway back on this quote the myth of closure of professor boss it is written Pauline boss is created the field of ambiguous laws that is loss without closure like ambiguous laws. It's a great word and grief is complicated. She writes such as dealing with parents divorce addiction dementia ageing and death and then she writes you love somebody and when they're lost. You still care about them. You just can't turn it off. You just can't turn off their love and she goes on and says there is no such thing as closure. I know right now I can. I can the thoughts of our audience. And what are you talking about. Everybody talks about closure that how do you get closure on it and she says that closure is a myth that we need to put aside like such as the idea of accepting that grief has five linear stages and then when you he passed through the stages you come out on the other side of it and there's you know there's no more there's no more grief no more loss and that's just. I that's just bullshit agreeing. That's just that's just not true in life and so therefore she coined the term ambiguous loss creating the new fe a new field in family therapy and psychology she has wisdom for the complicated Greece you know she is as Nice Nice little phrases complicated griefs and losses in all our lives and for how we can best approach coach the losses of others so tell me what do you think about the myth of closure about closure and going through your five stages. I think it's important to go through the stages of grief. I think the the Yeah I've I've many about this. something that I knew with myself I now know about myself is that I had no alternative but to go through the stages to give myself time. I had no alternative. I was not capable of resuming normal activity for a time. I you know I I had to. I had to go through a bit of you know Cata Tonia you know I I found myself walking around the house and my pajamas for hours. You know you have have to go through the stages and allow yourself time to heal and who knows how much time that's going to take. I'm not going to presume to tell anyone. I don't know how long their grief should take and I would imagine there are probably many people who are wondering why I was grieving. Someone I was married to so briefly and to hell with them yeah yeah yeah but you had such a long relationship we did you marry to. I married my best friend. Yeah Yeah Anyway so having said that you know. I think there are stages and they think that they probably are a little bit different for everybody and I I do think we have to be kind to ourselves and give ourselves loves permission to be someone that we're not used to being for awhile and in my case I I was. I've always been an overachiever high achiever and you know I I like going out there and setting the world on fire and I took a year off to be we're not with when he was ill and then so it was about six months with Mick when he was ill and then it was about another six months after he passed just to give myself time to be human again. I I was I was in grief. You know I was angry and that's okay and I think I think my biggest message. If any to Cherif people is that it is okay to be a mess it is okay and I will. I do not believe I will ever revert to whoever whoever I was before. I'm that tree I've been burned. I've been scarred and the pain that I felt was the deepest pain I've ever felt of course my world but but I think like all things that pendulum swings so much farther the others way too I think capacity for love and my appreciation of love is that much greater as well the last days with Mick if he if I would lay with him on the bed and he would hold my hand he would squeeze it and I would know he's aware I'm still here that bridge such profound joy those little little moments taught me to really pay attention and focus and understand every single moment of every day has incredible beauty in value and I don't know what I would have gotten that were it not for the grief part. Yeah you know what I want to continue on with the thought of of the opportunity for growth from suffering and that how neat you wrote how strong and how influential in powerful powerful suffering was we really can't have a great life without and we're gonNA take a brief break and then we're gonNA come back and chat more aw this is Charlie hedges and you're listening to the next chapter with Charlie and today my pleasure is to be chatting with Wendy Wendy Hooper Ross who as she has just explained has a most unusual marriage situation -Tuation at the death of her husband was quite a time of grief in quite a time of suffering and and it and it took a Q. Year I know when my I'm adopted and when my adoptive mother she was got in my life she you know I was raised in raised in a matriarchal arkle family and and she was she was everything and when I she died when I was forty years old and it took me a full year. It took me. It took me a full year because she was so influential power over me a power over over. You're not controlling me but teaching me. The important things of life was just was just overwhelming so so I understand understand and I and I I'm not I'm not sure everybody completely understands the value of grief and suffering and that we we cannot grow without it right it is it is something that is heart changing in life changing. How do you feel about that. I couldn't couldn't agree more. through suffering through pain comes growth. I mean you know if we get too comfortable. We stopped growing and I'm not saying that I G. I'm delighted this happened of course not no no never never yeah but I do. I do feel like bigger because of emotionally and spiritually virtually in all ways I am heightened because of having had that experience you see life through a whole different filter I do. I do you you you you you mentioned. What did you mention that I wanted to talk about. Oh Oh that that you were talking. You know today mindfulness presence. Are you know that's the those are the go-to words words you know it has to be to be mindful and present but after mixed death and your experience of grief and suffering the way you discussed it earlier was that you are more mindful more present and in in your life. How is how is that possible what what impact you think your relationship with. Mick and and his death brought about that you know I think just your here's an example and I think I shared this with you before I would always say to mic when we were friends. You know life life is lived in the small moments and I believed it and then when I had those last few precious moments with MC. I I better understood my own words. It was like you know I it was crazy because I I thought wow I understood what the words met meant but it didn't really league get them. I mean on a soul level. I understood Oh my God. Life is lived in the small moments and if we get so busy on our treadmill of life that we stop not paying attention to the moments we're going to miss all the good stuff and I find myself sitting back like the day that I met you and just sort of wallowing in the joy of conversation in with people whom I like and when you came up and said who are you. I thought what a brave man. We know this guy that that was that was I don't normally do that. I don't normally approach women. Say who are you to your point. I think I think in my life in my business I it has allowed me or caused me to be a little bit more aware of everything myself and others you know oh I I make snap judgments i. I really really meditate on things especially. I'm in real estate. People very emotionally charged in real estate transactions. I find myself being much more careful about what I say and how I say it to make to make the outcome better for everybody I for some reason it's taught me I think a greater degree patients patients and and and he yeah that that that I going back a bit on what you said I so agree that life is composed of small moment and that we must we must take advantage of those moments in appreciate what we're doing even our conversation now you know I'm in I'm in a learning learning process of you know. That's why I love to do interviews because I'm interested the people that I want to learn and and this this this tragedy has seemed to impacted you just to the highest degree of living in a better life and maybe realizing that life is short yeah. I think it drove that point home. Ferociously life is short and every day is is a gift and if I don't appreciate that I have today I'm probably screwing up because I'm not guaranteed tomorrow. so yeah it enhanced all of that awareness something that surprised me that. I think my greatest shock is that I've always been a hard working independent pendant woman I always thought you know I don't have a man in my life because I need one. I have one of my life because I want one and and that is true but after having Mickan losing mic. I realized I really WANNA partner. That is important to me in life. It's more important than I knew so we'll Pitney yeah. That's not a little piff Anita. That's great. Tell me I'm always curious this about mindfulness and presence I'd I I never take things at face value. I'm always contemplating that and how and and so I'm wondering in a practical way how how are you. When do you find time to be mindful. Are you when you when you walk all can say to the center club and and you're very present you're seeing people. Is there any way that you that you're you're thinking at the time I have to be this or is it just a natural. It really feels like a natural outcome. 'cause it's not deliberate. becomes deliberate liberty. If I find myself drifting off like if I was here having a conversation with you and all of a sudden thinking Oh did I let the dog out or did I feel the tax checker than than I snap myself back and think what are you doing. You're here with Charlie. You're speaking with Charlie focus so those are the only times we're anything becomes deliberate but I don't walk into and think okay the deliberateness. I'm going to do these things and pay attention to those things. It's just happening. I love that word deliberate. I use the word intentional but I love the word deliberate that we we need to. We need to live it. It's well let me take that back. That sounds awful. Preachy it is it is most advantageous is to live life intentionally or with with purpose and with paying attention just simply paying attention. It's I've often said I've often heard of the most popular people are the most admired people. People are the ones when they're talking to you. You're the only person that exists site. There's nobody else nobody else in the room. Nobody else around Um but I'm talking to you and you said that in our interview that Y- you know other thoughts because other thoughts come to mind but I it's it's it's like a a a woman that I once heard in a lecture the talk who lived in Spain and the part that she lived when you hey there were a lot of flies and so you could spend all your time shing flies or just accept the fact that there's going to be flies MHM and just keep eating right and don't worry about it on a piece of meat. You know you you push it off and you know 'cause you. Try not to eat the fly the daily ideally but you probably do have some some fly innards in u but it is that is that it's the art word of avoid avoiding distraction right exactly and I think that Charlie is why I'm well liked at the club because I really we do give a damn about how so-and-so's Day was. I really do care if their sons broken arm is mending. He's back in sports. I'd really do care because I know what matters to them. And you know it makes you wildly popular. It's a fascinating thing yeah. It's it's interesting. I have some of the story my my friend who is on the show often Terry Hershey and so that listeners will know of Terry Hershey the woman he's with right now just just got out of surgery for breast cancer alley and they remove lymph nodes and they've taken all the tests and it looks like she's he's completely okay but but I call him a couple days a week and tell me and just just to say Tummy. How's Nancy Doing you. You know how she feeling wh what's happening and and I think he's I think he's shocked by that that probably someone would actually just call and he and I are close friends. We're going to be s but that's always the first question is tell me about Nancy how she doing and and I think the more we do that. The the more the more important we make other people feel everybody is important. Every everybody is important. One of my goals in Life Wendy is to help people feel better about themselves decorate goal to like themselves more decorate call because who's doing that if I don't do that. Who's going ended do that because we're also self-centered that we just we. WanNa think we think all only want to think of ourselves in our you know the show is going to people on the show are pro went away. I always talk about it but but the American dream drives us not not to be social except for monetary gain and his dogged pursuit of Abyan say yes yes and we don't we don't get a chance to enjoy this life and and and it never ceases as I read on death and it never ceases to impress me that very very very successful people when they ride about the importance of their life they will talk about relationships. It's always about that. It begins and ends with love so my final question for you as we begin to wrap up the show so it's a it's. It's really like what's he gonNA. Ask A no. My question is so what now what what what are your intentions for life after laws. I know you've explained how it's impacted you but now intentionally would you have have you changed your intentions of how you want to live your life a bit and what do you want I am. I have always been that workaholic. pollick person that was doggedly pursuing you know the accomplishments and and not really the stuff but I I I was very competitive. I just have to win and so I didn't have as much time I didn't dedicate as much time to my sister and my my nieces and my great nieces and my nephews and that has become more important to me which is I think a big lesson that I've learned like I'm not gonNA be around forever. They're not gonNA be around forever. need to pay attention and I I spent I spent more time doing what I darn well want to do an I spend less time doing that which I don't and with people I don't and that has been transformative. There people have just edited out of my life like you know what I don't. WanNa hang out with them. I'm not going to it's it reminds me of of the book I just ordered from Derek Silvers Yeah and and it's titled it's either. Hell yes or no right net great yeah. It's either hell yes us. I'm full in. I'm not in and all right. There's no I'm just in for the fun of it. I'm not gonNA waste a moment in conversation in or in any occupation. The doesn't bring me or someone else joy or satisfaction. I'm just not going to do it and had a conversation. I wish you had been there to see it. I was extremely pointed with someone at the club last week. I was having a conversation with a woman about a gentleman that I started dating because yes I'm dating again and and she was concerned. This person wasn't good enough for me. which is what good friends always say and this person who barely knew me came up and started just trash talking the guy and I- I uninvited him from our conversation and he didn't take a hint and so I very bluntly said get the hell away from me? This conversation is over. Did you really absolutely sunshine and roses all the time. Oh no I so admire that that is that is that is so healthy because what what value is he adding into your life in general it wasn't going to allow it to. I wasn't going to patiently wait for him to continue being an ASS. He could be an somewhere else not with me. That is that is great and I think I think we're going to close on that. No because I liked that note you know hell yes or no and and if it's no and it's an it's destructive no and get the hell away from me Bravo. I need you great insight. Wendy great insight right so Wendy Hoop Ross. Thank you so much for spending time with me today. It's really been a pleasure inviting me. Oh it was it was fun as just and so so what is the word I'm thinking of so so serendipitous you know that I would meet you at the club and we get to do this and I also WanNa think our listeners for tuning into the next Chapter Charlie and and be sure to check it out check us out on in our website the next chapter dot life and until next this is Charlie. Has Your signed enough bye for now you've been listening to the next chapter with Charlie right here in Orange County is only community radio station Talk Radio Radio Dot net. It's cutting into your exercised besides time it stabbing in the back nine and it's attacking your peace of mind. It's pain and it's getting in between you and a life. You want to live CBP. CBS medic targets your pain at its source. It's fast acting relief with active. OTC ingredients plus the added benefits of THC FREE HEMP oil get back to your life with CBD Abd Medic Available Online and at CBS these statements have not been evaluated by the FDA. This product is not intended to diagnose treat cure or prevent any disease. It's is cutting into your exercise time it stabbing you in the back nine and it's attacking your peace of mind. It's pain and it's getting in between you and a life you want onto live CD medic target your pain at its source. It's fast acting relief with active. 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30-Day Solo Podcast Challenge - Introduction
"It's big podcast thirty days so podcast challenge. I'm David Hooper my job you also some very big companies you know those also I've worked with a lot of different brands of your message your podcast big podcast dot com slash about flexibility is the big one if you are a podcast and you're doing mostly interviews what happens when you've got to get an episode out he's got nobody to do in creating your podcast it's also going to help you achieve credibility with your listeners always be about somebody else's message what somebody else wants to do who with his thirty day solo podcast challenge and here's how it works for the next thirty days line that answers that question I suggested three step outline there needs to be a beginning lease it what I'm trying to get you to do is to get used to being behind the mic I hope that you put it out somewhere because I think a little pressure is good six people nervous it made me nervous to step out from play music to the University of Memphis took classes as a freshman to start working at the campus radio end up happening but what did happen is I got to know the INS and outs of radio eventually vision different companies I worked with entertainers that are comics book authors musicians I have been through different types of media I was in the music business music business was first when it came to digital distribution people in the book business we got better speed people in the film and Television Industry started calling me and I started working in those bill live venues to sell more product to boost themselves up in the eyes of the public and I think that podcasting is the next place that this is going folks have been changed you've got a great opportunity if you want to take advantage of it but I able to control when your individual episodes get out said that is what we're going to do over the next and you do you're going to be much more comfortable having gone through this process in thirty days and overall you're going to be better solo podcast or maybe you're not interested hey you never know when you're going to need this that's why I want you to have this skill let's talk about the Christians in three sections the first section that we're GonNa do it's going to be about you the second related to a business that you run the third section that's what I'm gonNA call a grab bag a podcast or a business owner my second goal for you it's for you to be able to easily about yourself a beginning interviewer will always ask that question toes a little bit about you're going to be able to better connect once you go through this process the other thing that you're going to get general could you say something about the person who just died you never know when these situations are going to pop eighteen being at parties be into the club at the bar there are a lot of general situations that you're going to I sell and even if you're not selling something I'm talking about selling yourself making you more I got you covered in thirty days from now you're going to be better at telling these stories that are memorable what you to subscribe to this podcast we're going to be spending the next thirty days together. I oh much better at telling stories being able to talk about yourself being able to organize any of these steps big podcast dot com slash subscribe is to make sure that that happens you you you're going to attract the right people if you've got a podcast right now you think I don't a better delivery you're hosting skills will be improved but also the content that you're delivering that money for you you've probably heard people say it's not what you say it's how you say both of those things you're going to have peace of mind as already talked about with you you're no longer you were in charge feel the power of that man getting behind the mic being able to clearly deliver what's happening over the next thirty days so right now before you forget go to be podcast DOT COM RSS feed one click is all it takes automatically have these episodes delivered going to upload if you want feedback during this challenge. I'm available to you cine what you've done. I've got some episode outlines that will help you got some social media templates to drive traffic to is becoming a better host but part of it is outreach letting people know what you're doing I'm GonNa get you there click on that subscribe button and I will see you tomorrow.
Big Podcast Book - On Sale NOW!
"Take podcast, David Hooper here right now right now do it now. My book is on sale at Amazon dot com. It's called big podcast. Grow your podcast audience build listener loyalty, get everybody talking about your show. You'll know it when you see it, because it looks like a big zebra black and white easy to spot. If you want the quick way to get there. Go to big podcast dot com slash book. How much is it that depends on how quickly you act and doing something called the countdown deal price starts low and gets higher and higher during the deal? But even at the full price, it's still a bargain to before years to write this book, it is four hundred and sixty two pages the kindle version, and the paperback are on sale, but the kindle version much cheaper, it's a bargain, you won't believe how low the price is to get it. Go to big podcast dot com slash book. Why am I doing this because I test everything before I recommend it. And there are some parallels here between book promotion and your podcast promotion to check out. What's going on at big podcast dot com slash book. You want this book, when you go to that you are L big podcast dot com slash book read. The reviews, this will help you to spread your message. Get your podcast out to more people grow your podcast audience. So do that now before you forget big podcast dot com slash book, and I'll see you on the next episode ability podcast.
Jesus Is My Co-Host
"This is Bill to beat podcast. I'm Dave Hooper. And today is Easter some doing a special edition. It's called this. What would Jesus podcast this is not a religious podcast. But I am going to talk about Jesus specifically three podcasting lessons from Jesus. The first Jesus had a clear philosophy to clear point of view. Don't know it look at the red words in the bible. But most people know it, even if you're not Christian, you know, something about Jesus that's how well this philosophy has been spread. That is the same type of philosophy that you want for your podcast, of course, people confuse the words from Jesus. Those red words they try to make them their own Jesus isn't here to clarify, and that brings up a good point that people will confuse what's being said by you. So you need to be extra clear as to what your message is. It's best. If it is simple. It is best. If you could put it on a bumper sticker think about politicians. Signs, bumper stickers t shirts. The granted there's more to the message. We get that. And that's where your clarification is gonna come in. But you want a very clear message in an obvious point of view. Let me give you a personal example. I believe pike asking is the best way for most businesses and most experts to get the word out about what they are doing the reason I feel that way is the clarification is because it's easy to consume podcast. It's easy to make podcast. It is easy to distribute podcast is very personal people are getting your thoughts directly from in your brain. As you're thinking them straight out of your mouth into their ears. You're not translate anything into a written word, you're not making videos. You don't have to worry about how you look as mentioned easy to consume. So that's an example of the philosophy. Podcasting is the best way for most businesses and experts to get the word out about what they're doing that. I'm backing that up you want the same thing. Very clear fillet. Fyi appoint of you people need to know where you stand. They wanna know who they're getting when they go to your podcast the second thing on the last three podcasting lessons from Jesus that is a miracle. When you think of Jesus, you think of miracles, water and wine healing blind people rising from the dead. That's why we're celebrating Easter today. The big one Jesus get you into heaven. That's what Christians believe you want to go to heaven. You gotta go through Jesus every podcast has its own version of this a miracle. This one, for example, audience attraction, you want more people? Listen to your podcast, listen to build a big podcast. You don't think that's a miracle? Maybe you've gotta listeners that you need. If you don't have all the listeners that you need and that help you get more listeners youth think that is a miracle. These guys that are talking about the fire movement financial independence retire early. If you chief financial independence, and you retire early that is a miracle to you. Now. Maybe you're thinking yet Jesus had a miracle. David's got a miracle. The fire guys. They've got a miracle. But what I do. It's not a miracle. That's not how the people listening to you feel that thing that you do what you help people with people consider that a'miracle, you are helping them achieve something. They are not able to do on their own. Now may not be a literal miracle. It may not get you sainthood in the Catholic church once you're dead. But it's a miracle to the people that you're trying to help. This is what you need that is element. Number two. I'm calling it the miracle. Maybe you want to call it a trick. It's that thing you do. Number three, third podcasting lesson from Jesus that's personality. Here's the bottom line of personality. Let's take your niche. Let's say it's fire financial independence, retire early more or less. Everybody's got the same stuff. They are doing in order to do that put some money away. Invest it wisely. Don't spend too much everybody in your niche. Everybody in mine edge. We've had the same or similar messages. But what really connects us to the people who listen to us. That's our personalities. How we deliver that message and this personality that makes delivering that miracle that thing you do ten times more effective hundred times more effective so much more effective than it would be. If you were simply deliver the information, a mention about podcast and being such an effective way to reach people imagine if this stuff was written down, there's no personality coming through it. At least not in the way that we can deliver via podcast. Is why people I pod casting? It makes people connect with a message. They get to know you. They get to feel who you are. They know something about you be on the message that you're delivering because of that they're gonna listen to you. And because of that they're going to take advantage of what you have to offer and take action on the things that you tell them to part of this is stories we're going to take it back to Jesus let's look at the bible stories parables, you learn lessons via the stories. People are learning lessons from you via your stories and that comes back to personality, the third element, a three podcast lessons from Jesus when we review these the first one a clear philosophy point of view, the second a miracle. That thing you do the trick. You don't feel like using the word miracle and the third personality, adding your personality to the information, you're delivering and making the content that you. Deliver your own. If you want more from me, I'm here all the time. But I'm also on big podcast dot com. You can put the two together by subscribing to this podcast via the podcast dot com. Go to be podcast dot com slash subscribe. There are three ways. Subscribe you've got an iphone got you covered Android. Got you covered. Do you want a good old fashioned RSS feed? I've got you covered. I've got some new updates coming. Be the first to hear about them. One of the things that I'm putting together right now. I'm putting together an automated air check. So if you're curious about how your podcast stands up to all other podcasts in your niche you bringing out that personality. How's that miracle working for you? Do you have that defined point of view answer the questions, I'm going to let you know? I'm going to help you specifically on issues that you need to work with all automated. So you don't need to be embarrassed. You can do it anonymously, and you can find out about this via my website at big podcast dot com. Sign for the list. I will let you know as soon as that is available. Thank you for listening to build a big podcast game here. All the time going to be podcast dot com to subscribe, get updated. And I will see you on the next episode.
How Podcast Hosts Make Money
"They'll be podcast david hooper here the powers that be whoever the hours the br they've released a survey about making money with podcasting the top option to make money with podcasting according to the powers that be is editing in technical elements of podcast why is that because people don't know how to do that kind of stuff or they don't want to when it comes to hosting hosting is just having a conversation for most podcast most podcast especially the independent once their interview format how long we've been having conversations a long time maybe two three years old they were simple conversations some of these podcast just simple conversations but we grow up up knowing how to talk we didn't grow up knowing how to edit podcast that maybe some of the kids now coming up knowing how to do that some of the know how to using i pad before they could talk maybe those are future editors before most this we talk a whole lot easier do we know the tech host according to the powers that be are not making money why is that maybe hosting is overrated tech that's not overrated if i have the tech down you wouldn't be listening to this now hosting that's kind of optional when it comes independent podcast don't you think about this one why do you listen to build a new podcast it is not my hosting talent there are people who are so so much better at hosting denying them they've got nice voices you've got smooth deliveries they make you feel good when you hear them me on the other hand a stunner i stammer especially when you hear me on interview podcast because it's not being that did my brain is going so much faster than my mouth this one is edited this one is slowed down a little bit but normally all over the place stuttering stammering in sometimes this includes this podcast sometimes i say stuff in ways that i shouldn't i did that a couple of episodes ago in the next episode i'm gonna be talking about the backlash from that what i'm doing remedy that back to the question why i listen to build a big podcast in the answer is because i know my she podcasting isn't what i do tell the messaging spread the message is solid what i do in the message that i'm spreading is help people to solve a problem the problem is you don't have an audience i help you grow in audience that's why you listen as you know we've talked about here all the time i tried to leave behind when i left the music business but i just can't help myself i've worked with so many musicians over the years in one which i mentioned here before so one million dollars worth of t shirts more then they sold music did that make them t shirts sellers where's that make them musicians both maybe but the reason they're able to sell t shirts because they had music and that's the same for you you might not make money podcasting or make money as a podcast podcast host but the reason you can do what you do and make the money that you make is because of your podcast podcasting is a great way to reach people it's a great way to teach which you know the great way to showcase her personality polity it's a great way the show you're influence on something without a podcast a lot of the people that i work with they wouldn't have businesses they certainly wouldn't have the business is do they have been so successful to argue are you being paid for you're hosting maybe not directly because you're not a technician you probably read ns it took about technicians managers in entrepreneurs you're an entrepreneur newer i don't even like that word oscar newer but i'm gonna use a here because some people know the math that's the word the book the email uses onshore newer is big picture of a newer is about getting that message out technician is the straight hosting it straight host if you listen to the radio lately they're boring boring just try not to piss anybody off they give me that milk toast don't offend anybody information so you don't turn it off you don't change the channel podcasting steam completely different thing we might not be a great host we've got great info we've got great insight we can help people with what they do it's the opposite of radio radio you're trying not to turn it off with podcasting were trying to get them to search us and turn it on the download us to be part of their live so no you're not being paid is a technician the host you're being paid is the entrepreneur newer so consider that when you see these dumb ass statistics sticks in surveys about booze who host are being paid in podcasting that is bull you're hosting is what is enabling you to do the other things that you're doing you want more for me i'm here all the time make sure you subscribe you podcast dot com slash subscribe their options for you if you're on us loan there's an option for you android there's an option for you you want an rss feed there is an option for you big podcast dot com slash describes how to do it while you were there yeah
RED 258: Special Announcement
"Hey It's David Hooper. Read podcast may have noticed some slight changes red. Bypassed show imagery the episode injury that is changing and that has to do the all new read. PODCAST I'm relaunching that soon. Going to have more interviews more information to help you grow your expert business. Spread your message build audience make more money with your ideas and if you're interested in those things right now I've got something that I don't want you to mess. That's why I'm doing this special episode my new book. It's called big podcast to grow your podcast audience build listener loyalty and get everybody talking about your show. I'm doing what they call a countdown deal. BIG PODCAST DOT com slash book book. That'll take you directly more information. The way this works is the price starts low and it creeps up so the quicker you act the cheaper you get it. This is super cheap. If you're on my mailing lists you saw me talking about this people asking me. What are you doing? Why are you selling it for so little money? And the reason for that is because I'm trying to spread a message. I'm trying to get this book out there into the hands of people. WanNa get into your hands. That's why I've got this no-brainer deal big PODCAST DOT com slash book. I'm looking forward to being back on the all new. Read podcast with you very soon. I've got some great interviews that I'm working on some great stories for you. Some great great information. That's going to help. You spread your message. Make more money with your ideas building audience but for now the book. You'RE GONNA love this big podcast. Grow your podcast. Audience audience build listener loyalty. And get everybody talking about your show. BIG PODCAST DOT com slash book is how to get it at the cheapest available price do it now before you forget and do you it now because the price continues to go up the long you wait big podcast dot com slash book. Thank you so much for listening to read podcast. The new red podcast. That's coming and I will see you on it very very soon.
FREE PODCASTING BOOK - TODAY ONLY
"Whoa hey all right there we go build a big podcast. I'm David Hooper and today. This is an honor of my audio book. Being released the title of it. Big podcast grow your podcast audience bill listener loyalty and get everybody talking about your show. There's a kindle version that I am making available free to you digital copy super easy and that's what you're gonNA get. You can the paperbacks four hundred sixty two pages it's about ninety three thousand words. This is a real book. I know a lot of people giveaway things on kindle and it's more or less glorified sales pitch. This took me four years to write ninety three thousand words and you can get it free. Here's a url just for you. Big podcast dot net. Net Big podcast dot net slash book. That will take you to Amazon. This is available so whatever Amazon you use. Make sure you're using it that'll take you Amazon. Dot Com big podcast dot net slash book. You can get this book free today. Big podcast dot net slash book. If you are curious about the audiobook version that is also available to you. That is free with trial. You know the deal. 'cause your podcast her. That's the way we pitch audible free with trial. You can cancel the trial you can get the book for free and that is at big podcast dot net slash audio book. Get the book free. Big podcast dot net slash book. Take a look at it. Then you decide you want me to read it to you. Big podcast dot net slash. Audiobook do it now before you forget this today. Only thank you for listening to build a big podcast. I will see you on the next episode.