20 Episode results for "Holloway"

Natalee Holloway

Women and Crime

37:17 min | 1 year ago

Natalee Holloway

"This podcast may contain content. That is graphic and disturbing in nature listener. Discretion is advised. Hi everyone if amy's audio sounds a little bit funny today. Maybe a little bit different. It's because we are still social distancing. So amy is recording from her. Home Office Today Aka her bedroom closet. Hey Amy how are you hi Nagin. Wonderful how are you? I'm great? I'm actually excited. We have two new patrons today so I I would like to say a big. Thank you to Rachel tempest all the way from Australia. That's a long way for you to go. So we appreciate it. That's amazing and in honor of Rachel. I think I'm going to choose a case from Australia for the next one. That's awesome okay. There's some good ones that came out of there too so okay so thank you so much. Rachel. We're so grateful for your support and we hope you enjoyed today's episode and we have a second patron. I'd like talk a bit about her because she is. She wrote to us but she was listening while she was on her way from Texas to New York because she is actually a registered nurse in Texas who volunteered to come help in New York City with the Cova crisis amazing. What's her name? Her name is Nikki. Rogers Nikki thank you so much for all that you were doing. Yeah Nikki you wrote to say that you are big fans of hours. But I think it's safe to say that we are even bigger fans of yours and all of your colleagues and we really appreciate it and in honor of you and everyone on the front lines with you. We are dedicating today's episode to you all so we really hope you enjoy also Nikki as one of our patrons asked a question Her question is about the significant others of serial killers such as Elizabeth Kendall dated Ted Bundy. So what is it about these women that makes them dateable as opposed to victim? If I found out someone I dated was a psychopath killer. I would have questions like why me and why them so. I think that's a great question. Nikki and as someone who teaches serial killers. I'm going to get right in here. An answer to the best of my abilities. So first of all serial killers almost always or usually victims that are strangers to them so there is a separation between the person who they date and who they know and the person who they kill and what happens is oftentimes the person they kill is they are attracted to those women often can be men as well for one of two reasons one is that there is just a physical attraction to them and it's so much so that that's the type from which they get sexual stimulation. Even though that sexual stimulation is still going to come in the form of you know probably a sexual assault and murder or the second part is that they are attracted to them they represent someone they hate and want to punish so there's a group of serial killers Who Kill for revenge for the sadism of it and so these are kind of the two groups of women. Now they always fall into the stranger. Category as opposed to the women that serial killers will meet and possibly date and marry. Those are women that they meet in their everyday lives. You know the idea that the serial killer is just a lone person who has no friends. No family isn't really true. That's more of a myth. Most of them will have daily jobs daily routines even go to church and so the women that they meet in the course of their daily lives and that are known to them known to friends known to families usually the one who they perceive as more virtuous. Those are the women that they are going to choose to date now. What happens with those women though is that they try strive for this normalcy? This normal relationship. And that's what they're really hoping for ultimately but at some point there's usually a problem with the sexual relationship because they can't achieve that kind of excitement and climax they're looking for with this partner because that's not the purpose partner serves. This partner is more of that person. So they'll have to go out. Usually they get frustrated. At some point you know they may desist while the relationship is in the beginning but then there you should go out and kill again. The people that they often seek out then are strangers people that they deem who are less valuable. That people won't Miss On. So those are the types of women. Such as homeless women sex workers or Drug addicts or any of the above. And sometimes they're all one in the same. I hope that answers. Your question. Nikki did that do it for me. I couldn't have said it better myself. I can without further ado. Here's our original episode recorded in Studio. We hope you enjoy in. May Two thousand and five shortly after graduating with honors eighteen year old. Natalie Holloway joined over one hundred classmates on a trip to Aruba on the last night she left the bar with a man she had met just a few days prior. No one seemed concern until she missed her flight. Home and her passport and pack luggage were found in her hotel room. Where was Natalie? This is episode fourteen Hallway Story Hi Meghan Hi amy. How are you good? How are you today? Good all right ready to get into it. Yes okay so before we get started. I just WanNa say this was one of the most difficult cases to research. The amount of media coverage books movies documentaries podcast. It is filled with the most amount of rumors I've ever seen in the case. False leads him. Extortion over half a dozen arrests lawsuits. It just goes on and on so I will try my best to tell the story in the most straightforward way. But YOU'RE GONNA have to pay attention. I am ready to. I know it's an overwhelming amount of information sometimes go oh we don't have enough info but this is. I know this case. I know it's going to have a law so curious to see what you've come up with. I was Gonna say even though this case is well known. I know that you know it. Guaranteed there'll be some twists and turns for you here. I'm sure of it. Okay so as always. Let's talk about who natalie was also Natalie was born in Mississippi in one thousand nine hundred. Eighty six to dave and Beth Holloway. Dave worked in insurance. Beth worked in the school system. Unfortunately the marriage did not last long. They got divorced in Nineteen ninety-three Natalie and her younger brother. Matt were mostly raised by their mother. Beth in two thousand Beth remarried George twitty. She'll be no now as Beth Holloway twitty. The family moved to his home. State of Alabama where he was a successful business man. It was a upper middle class area and by all accounts Natalie was very close with her stepfather and of course her mother as well. They called him Jug right they did. I was going to leave that out but yes no all right so Natalie excelled in school. As I mentioned. She was in honor society. She graduated with honors. She was also on the dance squad very involved in her church. Had many friends very popular girl. If you see the pictures of her they're always heard like dancing on the football field. She was planning on attending the University of Alabama. She got a full scholarship to study premed so she was very bright girl. So just two days after graduation on May Twenty six two thousand and five Natalie headed to Aruba for it was. I guess you could say an unofficial class trip. There were over one hundred students going and they did have about seven adult chaperones as well. But this wasn't through school. It was just like an informal thing so they say that the Holiday Inn. They had a great time by all accounts. There are a lot of partying going to casinos. Going to clubs the drinking age is eighteen. I do want to say I went to Cancun at this age. It's a lot of people. Were a little judgmental of Beth for allowing Natalie to go to Aruba as an eighteen year old. Pretty much unintended. But I don't know about you make input. That was very common in my school. People want junior senior year. My Mom let me go to Virginia beach when I was seventeen. Eighteen four or five days. Oh our parents are now now I just. I think you're right so uncommon but unfortunately Beth did it. Seems like people judged it a little bit. But that's how these things go so Natalie people said Natalie was having you know a lot of fun as she should have been drinking a lot and partying a lot on the last night of the trip. Natalie and a group of her girlfriends headed to Carlos and Charlie's which is just a popular nightspot. I guess you could say it's like a nightclub. This was their last night out. They had an early flight the next day. So there were reports that the teams were all very drunk They were doing body shots on the bar and again doing teams do. When they're drinking ages. Eighteen in Aruba. So right okay. Let's fast forward to the next morning. Everyone's getting ready for their flight. They're all meeting up in the hotel and at some point everyone's gathering and all of a sudden they're doing roll call and Natalie's nowhere to be found and everyone kind of scrambling texting calling her texting her. Of course they went to her room and that's when they found her passport and luggage and it was pretty much chaos. It was described as the Chaperones. Of course were quickly informed by the students that no one could find natalie the chaperone then called Beth back home in Alabama as would be expected. Her parents got hysterical. They have on a plane and they actually got there within twelve hours of when they got that phone call they were already landed in Aruba. This is Beth and George twitty. Yes Beth and your day actually joined by a few family friends as well and from what I understand some of the chaperones. They stayed back to help as well. They actually took a private jet their or private plane. I don't know where they had access to one but they really. They jumped into motion so Beth starts calling everyone. She knew that was with Natalie She quickly was able to find out that she was Carlos and Charlie's the night before and that she was seen hanging out with a gentleman by the name of Urine Vander sloot. Oh his name's familiar to you. Yeah of course. So who is your in? Well Natalie had met him actually a night or two prior at a casino. There was a casino that was attached to Natalie's hotel. Okay you're in was said to hang out there a lot. So there was surveillance showing them meeting and kind of chatting each other up so urine was born in one thousand nine hundred seven in the Netherlands. He moved to Aruba with his parents of years later he was pretty much considered a local in Aruba. He grew up there. He was known to hang out at tourist spots. Some people say he always hit on American girls. He would get hotel. Rooms have sex parties with his friends. You know but again a lot of this could just be the rumors and all of that crap right right. He was very confident he would. He definitely was considered a party guy. His father was a prominent attorney on the island. Who was training to become a judge and that becomes important. I think remember this part. Yeah so Beth searched piecing together thing. She found out that Natalie left the bar around one thirty with urine and his two friends. Deepak and Strategic Alpo. And at this point it is assumed that Natalie had never made it back to the hotel so Beth and others try to retrace her steps. They actually ended up hiring to locals at the airport. That would serve as their. I guess you could say their guides while they're on the island right. I'm sorry who Who are urines friends again? Deepak and Satish Kalpa right okay. I couldn't remember the name. Yeah so they were local. They were you know. Local brothers got good friends with urine so they started of course at the Holiday Inn where Natalie stayed talk to the front desk and Beth had spoken to a night manager and the night manager actually new urine well and pointed him out as the guy who hung out at the Casino next to the hotel and they also had viewed footage that confirmed that the two knew each other. So Beth goes to your home. I actually have no idea how she found out where he lived. It's possible it's like a small town a small island. Yeah so she was accompanied by local police and she actually went to his home. The middle of the night and the car that Natalie was last seen getting into was parked in his driveway and urine was there with his friend. Deepak Alpo and he admitted that he was with Natalie and he says he dropped her off at the hotel he also described in detail the sexual activity he had engaged in with Natalie to her mom at this point at this. Yeah apparently it just seems like this shows his character did he claimed. I'm sorry I don't want to get to claim. They had full on sexual activity or it depends what store you WanNa hear. Because he tells card many different accounts at some point. Yes they did at some point. No they didn't okay. I'm so we don't really know. Got It so this gets. This meeting gets pretty tense. There is a lot of y'all ing and you know Beth and her husband are there with their friends. So there's a bunch of Americans yelling at this local kid. His father comes out so urine says. Finally you know what I'll just show. You are dropped her off so they get in the car. You're in agrees you know. Follow me I'll show you exactly where I dropped her off. He told them that Natalie had fallen down that he drove her to her hotel. She fell down and two security guards had helped her up and he left her with them. Obviously wasn't smart enough to think about surveillance cameras ahead absolutely so this story will end up. Being the first of many lies in many different versions that urine would tell more on that later when we talk about his many different versions of events so at this point he says okay. I know nothing more. I did what I can and I'm out. You know he leaves it at that. So of course Beth stays in Aruba. She tries to file a missing persons report. She was brushed off. She was told this thing happens. All the time people go missing You know show probably show up in a few days this thing. We hear often when people try to report someone missing so of course she wasn't going to sit around and wait. She organized her own search party. They had a lot of support. A lot of friends and family from Alabama came to help a lot of the locals and Aruba helped in the search efforts. The authorities didn't seem to be taking it serious and Natalie's family obviously was taking a very serious right but the Aruban police didn't like what was going on. They felt that Beth was making them look bad so then they decided to step in and start helping out a little more. They show bet some security tapes from the hotel and they see now. There's no sign of urine dropping off Natalie. As he had claimed so at this point Beth actually says that she was convinced that you are in was responsible for her daughter's disappearance because that was the first blatant lie of many so there was a media frenzy. Beth was doing a ton of TV appearances. Natalie's father dave was now on the island as well and I don't know if you remember Meghan but this was a massive story. Oh Nashville International. Actually I followed it like I. I mean most people yeah. It was a big one so about ten days into the search. The three boys who are lasting with Natalie were arrested. They were arrested on the ground that they had lied. They had never dropped Natalie off and this ends up being pretty problematic because he implied he implicated two security guards who were actually arrested on suspicion of foul play. Natalie's case so you can't just make up stories and say I left her with these two security guards because they looked into security guards and luckily the two gentlemen were released when they found out that obviously there was no back to that story You can make it up if you have no conscience exactly. You're going to get caught exactly so the story changes now. They say that the KALPA brothers dropped the Natalie and you're an at the beach where they fooled around and then he says he left her there he says that she was in and out of consciousness and he insisted that she go back to her hotel and that he would take her but she refused a public service announcement. Don't leave unconscious girls on beaches in foreign lands but anyway so there was not enough evidence to keep the Cowper brothers. They were released after only a month. Their charges were dismissed married. There's nobody here. There's no physical evidence they were looking. They tore apart these. Both the voice houses cars everything they had no physical evidence but urine was still being held at this point. But you're on ceiling one. They have any evidence of even lying correct at this point had the had. The brothers lied about anything. I'm not really sure they had done anything. At this point I mean other than being quite suspicious. Yep Yep correct. He's the one who actually lied. The reason why they were brought into it because they were seen driving around with urine right. Okay so Beth said that. She believed that his parents knew exactly what had happened and he did as well they were they did sit down and talk to her and then they stop talking and they said that they were done talking to her and many people on the island started turning against her. And we're kind of getting annoyed by all the media attention. Part of this was because she kept calling the cowboy brothers criminals publicly although they were released. And you can't do that right. I remember when the media started to turn I remember. They were quite supportive in the islanders. Were on I remember them. At some point they thought Beth had started to insult them. Exactly and everyone who lived there and they turned on her. Yeah I mean they were very helpful and supportive of her and then they felt that she turned on so they turned on her. Which is really unfair. Because a if you look at the source of the problem the source of the problem is really the investigation and of course yep so Beth wouldn't leave She did a ton of media. She was on every program. I'm sure your call she was on. Gm A NANCY GRACE CNN. She was cover of people. Dr Phil She was doing would any mother would do. She was really trying to get as much attention. And part of this attention was trying to put pressure on the local authorities. Unfortunately she at one. As far to tell people to ban going to Aruba until Natalie's body was found so it got a little nasty at some point but going back to your and he was released from jail after three months so I actually found this interesting because he was held for three months with no charge at all and at some point. They can't just attain someone any longer without a charge. They did not have enough evidence to tie him to Natalie's disappearance so in the US they can only hold you up for up to twenty four hours. They have to charge you with crime or release you of course if you're suspected of a serious crime they can apply to hold you for longer and there's some other If it's under the Terrorism Act you can be held for up to fourteen days but generally speaking you need to be arraigned within twenty four hours. So the fact that he was held for three months with no chocolate no charges. Not that would not happen here. Yeah that violates due process so vander sloot in the capital brothers were actually arrested again in November of two thousand and seven but again they were released without being charged and about a month later. The case was declared closed by Aruban authorities at some point. The authority said like. There's nothing we can do here. We've been arresting and investigating and we do. We have nothing here and I do want to say. I think it was around this point that Joe Tackle. Pena was urines attorney Joe Tapping again. I don't know for a direct appeal listeners. We've come across Joe on a regularize. No we gotta talk to Joe. I mean it would be nice. Yeah from what I understand. The reason he was no longer as attorney is because urine can no longer afford his services that make sense boom but it was interesting because a lot of what I read. Tachometer was pretty vocal about your in a sense and you don't see that very often because there's a ton of evidence that's not looking great for Vander sloot. I also want to mention that. While Natalie's family was not happy with the response of local authorities. They were investigating hard and they were arresting people left and right they tore up the vendor salutes yard the House of course but the yard got torn up. They arrested urines father. At some point he was held for three days back in two thousand and five. They arrested one of your friends. Who worked as a DJ on a boat? They were really trying. Wasn't the issue though that they this was all too late wasn't the initial issue that they didn't do this until the pressure. You know while station like the first forty eight. I mean problem. Yep Yeah that's one of the big problems. Is You know so for example. This friend who had the boat you know. They searched his boat. What's going to be on the boat years later right you know. They also had a lot of local banks donated money. The government even gave their civilians a day off to help with the search like they were really again. It might be too little too late. Say Some people but the government did step up and we're trying to do a lot so let's move on to two thousand eight in two thousand eight. The Ruben officials reopened the case against Vander sloot after a tape showing him describing Holloway's death are among the so. It was a sing operation by a Dutch crime reporter and he released tapes that show that show. Vander sloot describing what happened to Natalie. He now says that he was on the beach with her. She started shaking and having a seizure. He panics and she dies then he decides. Oh what am I gonNA do with the body? I'm going to call my friend. Who has a boat and they will get rid of the body for me and then she was disposed of into the ocean possibly still alive because when asked are you sure she was dead. He wasn't sure she was dead. I remember that that was a chilling moment. Watching your honest when he said it. I don't like he wasn't sure I went. Oh my God yeah yeah. I felt really bad for Beth and to have to hear that. End Dave Rubin Officials. Were not able to corroborate these statements though so nothing really happened with them so things were kind of quiet for the next two years with two thousand. Ten was a very busy year for urine. This is about five years after Natalie's disappearance urine context the Holloway family. And says if you give me two hundred and fifty thousand dollars I will tell you where Natalie is and by the way I would like twenty five thousand upfront so clearly. This is extortion. You're not allowed to do that. So Beth's lawyer meets with urine and they decide to set up a whole sting operation with the FBI they put ten thousand dollars in cash on the table and fifteen thousand dollars or ping wire to urines bank account the FBI had the lawyer wire. The money sits down with urine urine tells John the lawyer that she had hit her head and she had died and he disposed of the body he even took John to a spot where he says that his now dead father buried her. So I WANNA mention urines. Father died shortly before this in two thousand and ten so now. He's implicating his father. So let's pause for a minute and discussed them many stories of urine. This is three stories at this point right. I'm actually up to five. Oh I think so. His first was he didn't know her because I don't know if I mentioned but when they first went to the house that night Beth he initially denied. Okay sorry story number one number two. He dropped her off at the hotel. Security guards took car number three. He left her on the beach and she was fine remember. You shouldn't do that anyway. But he's number four. She died from a seizure while they were on the beach. Okay so this is story number. Five story number five. She had hit her head and actually somewhere in here. There was a story that he tells someone else. It's a little later on so spoiler alert but he says that he sold her into sex slavery. I remember that one so where at six different stories to present day. I think we could say they're six stories. So you're in then sends a letter to John saying that he was lying and nothing. He told him was the truth. What he did was wire fraud and extortion. So now it's nice because the US can have some jurisdiction over this because the murder happened in Aruba the US can't do anything and Beth and others are desperate for this guy that come to some sort of him to have some sort of punishment so now the federal government is interesting right exactly so the FBI is getting him for wire fraud and store Shen and will that will circle back when we talk more about present day. So why would you even even do this? Why why why? He's out of money data giving them anymore. Money was a gambler. Yes it was act Espera. He was desperate for money. He claims he did this. Because the Holloway's have destroyed his life with all the false accusations so if he was innocent. You could understand that he would be pissed. But let's be honest here. I mean do we really think he's innocent? Just leave the family loan move on. I mean I thought that was actually like insult to injury that that is the depravity. That is your on Vander sloot. I think we can probably all agree on that. He helped but something else is going on in two thousand and ten so after spending some time living in Thailand urine moved back to Aruba and then he goes to Peru for a poker tournament he was A professional poker player by now in case. You're wondering so he goes to. Peru takes part in this tournament. What else do in Peru he murders a twenty one year old woman. Stephanie floors five years to the day which is I don't know if that's just some sick coincidence but I remember that too and I remember. I thought that was chilling. Yeah so may thirtieth two thousand and ten he murders twenty one year old stephany Flores and then he flees so we will come to find out that you're in met Stephania at a casino. She was also a gambler. She went back to his hotel room at her own. Will there are reports? There's two competing stories. One story is that she may have looked up on his computer and found out about his past which of course pissed him off and it set him off. Another story was that they were playing poker together on his computer. He received an instant message. Something that was relevant to the Holloway case and then that started an altercation. I'm sorry but both of these stories came from him. Correct yes I know for a fact. The first one did so it could be that story number three that he just murdered her for another reason of course and it probably is so they got into a physical altercation. He ends up strangling her and suffocating. Her he does confess to this of course after initially denying knowing anything at all but then of course he realized. There's no way he's getting away with this. She was found dead in the hotel room that he was registered and he tried to frame it a self defense saying that she came at him first. Stephanie was very badly be in her neck was broken. Reports say that the crime scene was absolutely brutal. And you know if he wants to say it was self defense. That's ludicrous. That was it was. It was a ridiculous and quick defense that when did not go and he also claims she had ten drinks he was wasted and you know he keeps his grasping at straws here so apparently after he kills her he leaves the dead body in the hotel room. He goes to get coffee and a Danish as seen on surveillance he asked the Hotel Stafford. Let him into his room. He says he left his key. Some say this is because he wanted the hotel staffer to discover the body with him but unfortunately for urine the plan fails because when they opened the door the body is not visible and the staffer goes back downstairs. So he decides he's just GonNa Steal Seventies car dump it get a cab and head to the border of Chile. That's right yup good plan so he gets this cab. It's a ten hour drive to the border and actually I read somewhere that it was like a month's salary for these guys that drove him. It was like two brothers way is then he couldn't pay them right. Yes and then he could. He's just remember to pay them. Yep and then that's why he got. They stopped before they got to the border. And he's like my car doesn't work here so we have to go across the border. He makes it over the border. Who's happy about that? But not for long you know. He does cross the border into Chile and he was officially on the run but he only made a four days and then a tollbooth operator recognized him and called the authorities. His faces everywhere. At this point right he was flown back to Peru and brought to justice for the murder of Stephanie. His face was probably everywhere to if I recall. Stephanie had some very influential parents yes well I think they were also good about getting media. Attention pretty quickly yeah. Stephanie's father was a very respected businessman in Peru. He was retired race car driver and he was very politically connected. And he was just like Beth very vocal tons of media attention looking for answers looking for justice. It was his only girl he had you know. We had several sons. But this was obviously as you could imagine very hard on the family so in two thousand and twelve urine plead guilty to qualified murder which is deliberate. He tried to use a defense of violent emotion which is similar to our crimes of passion that was not successful so he was trying to say that. This was not something that I plan to do. It happened because of an altercation and the court said No. You you thought about doing this. You did it. You're getting it. Yeah he tried the heat of the moment exactly. The moment did not was not successful. He was very desperate. He also pled guilty to robbery as well. He actually even tried to make a deal by asking to speak. With a Ruben authorities. About the Holloway. Case so of course they said no. Hell no like your hours. We're not. We're not doing that so. He was sentenced to twenty-eight years in prison ironically shortly before his sentence. I think it was just a couple of weeks. A judge in Alabama declared Natalie legally dead so they're state differences as to win a missing person could be declared dead in Alabama. It's five years some states up to seven years. I read somewhere that Natalie's father was pushing for this because there were some funds tied up in some account. I guess he wanted to give his other children for college but until she was declared dead he couldn't have access to that but of course. Beth wasn't ready to do that. I've heard families argue this both ways. Why they wanted to leave it open or why. They needed to declare them. Yeah I think this is probably really difficult choice. I agree. So where's your now while. He is currently serving his time in a south. American prison seems like prisons very different. There he got married. He has conjugal visits. Apparently he gets food drugs. He WEAR STREET CLOTHES. He had a daughter back in two thousand and fourteen so he did get married and he does have a daughter. His daughter You know I I think I recall that he got married. I'm not sure if I recall that he had a child so I would have thought the prison there would have been harder life I would have to but there are some real again the route there is no shortage of rumors in this case. There are some rumors that he's getting special treatment which doesn't make sense to me on the one hand people say he's getting special treatment because his father was so well connected because his father ended up being a judge in Aruba however Stephanie's father's well-connected in that country so you would think if anything he would be getting worse treatment but I wanNA point out him. Having a daughter is very crucial to this because after twenty eight years he could be extradited to the US to face those fraud charges remember. He has the charges by the FBI. But if you have a baby with approval and citizen that might make the process a little bit harder. So I'm wondering how much of his marriage and having this child was calculated by urine. I Dunno I could venture a guess yes and apparently the woman he is married to is quite young and I don't know it seems like an icky situation but he has said that he has terrified of US prisons and he wants to avoid extradition by all cost. I don't blame him. He should be terrified of. Us prisons especially because the whole us would be know to have him back right. Absolutely so as I mentioned there's tons of rumors. There's a rumor that Stephanie's father ordered a hit on him for ten thousand dollars because Stephanie's father of course is very angry at him Urine it also been stabbed up to five times in prison. Some say he had stabbed himself to get attention and sympathy other people say. He's just being brutalized by the other. Inmates they're so urines father died. I told you back in two thousand and ten. His mother does not have a relationship with him. She claims that he is innocent of the crimes against him. Having to do with the Natalie Holloway case but of course. She agrees that he did murder. Stephanie and she also says that he has mental health issues and he refuses to get treatment so yet another tape surfaces in two thousand sixteen. So there's a tape of Vander sloot confessing to murdering Natalie. This was called a publicity stunt and I don't think this hold any weight but apparently there was a hidden camera in his cell in Peru and he's in the room with his also with his wife in the room as well and he's telling someone it almost sounds like it's like A Jailhouse Confession. He's telling someone about how. Yes I did kill Natalie. I feel bad about taking responsibility for it. But he gives looking in the camera so it seems like it's he's just trying to get attention tablets. Were giving him a lot of money for exclusive so he was trying to get attention trying to get money from tabloids. I don't buy that. There was a hidden camera because someone was trying to sell it to the media after this happened but nothing ever happened with that. So maybe they're with the implications that one of officers or correctional worker is hiding cameras in his cell. Yeah Okay it's ridiculous. What was what did he say? Did he have another version of now? He did not. There's not a seventh version of events. Says like someone I it's like somebody saying? Did you do this? And he says yes you know. It's him just taking responsibility but not saying with the story got it so I don't know if you saw the oxygen I think six or seven part series. That oxygen did in the summer of two thousand seventeen about this case. Was this one with her father. Yes with Dave Holloway. They go back to the island so it features a new witness. Who says that? He knows where Natalie's remains are John. Ludwig John Ludwig claim to have helped. Vander sloot dig up smash and Cremate Holloway's bones in two thousand and ten after Vander. Sloot paid him fifteen hundred dollars. He claimed that after he crushed up. Natalie's bones he took them mixed with a dogs remains to a crematorium where he paid a worker. Two hundred dollars in cash to cremate. What he said was his pet. The Holloway family claimed that this was BS S. And that Ludwig was just being paid by oxigen. Unfortunately we may never know much more because Ludwig was killed in two thousand eighteen. Was He murdered? Ludwig was murdered. So Ludwig had tried to abduct a woman and she stabbed him in Self-defense. Tell you so many layers to this case. There is no shortage of twists and turns here. I also remember seeing Ludwick and he seemed to have substantial addiction issues and mental health issues. And other absolutely somebody who definitely would say something like this for fifteen hundred dollars so Beth follow the lawsuit in two thousand eighteen against oxygen and they're producers because she said that she gave DNA. She said there was fraud involved. They claim that they found human remains and they were not Natalie's and she claims that this was all just entertainment value and exploitation and they knew that these were not Natalie's remains a judge is taking it to trial. It's headed to trial this year. Two Thousand Twenty very recently twenty twenty did a fifteen year follow up where they went back with Beth to Aruba it just aired in November two thousand nineteen. Nothing really new. It was just sad and it's really. I think just to keep the story alive you got. Your heart has to hurt for Beth. I saw the twenty twenty and I did. I thought it was really good. Actually I did. Maybe it wasn't new but yeah I I don't blame her for keeping the story alive and you know she just still doesn't know and you just never know of course and she's reunited with the drivers that helped her toward the island when she first got there and it's somewhat of a feel good. I guess she says she has a different perspective. So you know Beth of course does talking now. She founded the Natalie Holloway Foundation. Which is really. I think it's actually called. The International Safe Travels Foundation. But it was called the Natalie Holloway Foundation and then it switch names. It's all about informing and educating public to help. People travel more safe internationally. And then there is the Natalie Holloway Resource Center that is in the Crime Museum in Washington. Dc that just focuses on again education crime prevention and there's resources for families of missing persons that they could go there and that's been around. I think it's like two thousand and ten so at least there is some you know Beth. Holloway twitty wants it not to be in vain right so she tries to do a lot of good stuff when she's a really strong advocate. Absolutely I could go for another two hours on this case but I think we should wrap it up here. Is there anything you wanted to add? Obviously we both think that you're on benders. Suit is guilty of the murder of Natalie Holloway. I don't know in which version it happens you know. I don't know for sure if it was premeditated or accidental. If he just had no regard whatsoever for her life or if he actually planned to kill her but he's guilty. I wish that we could see justice for Natalie Holloway. I still hope that we will in some ways but I don't know if that is reality that will happen. I'm really glad that he was at least caught and punished for the the murder of Stephanie. And I'm a little disappointed to hear that he's had such privileges but he still incarcerated and if he does get out I can almost guarantee you that they will extradite here no matter what the hurdles are they will get him back here and I look forward to that day hopefully in my lifetime. Yeah I agree and I also agree that I don't if I had to say my theory. I don't think that he purposely killed her. I think something happened. I think he had planned to take advantage of her. Maybe he dragged her. He definitely did not. He had ill-intentions. I don't think he planned to kill her either. She died accidentally or because he overdosed her on some sort of drug and then they panicked and dispose of the body. The I have to agree all right. Megan thank you. Well thank you. Amy For the deep dive on the Natalie Holloway case and we hope the listeners enjoyed today's episode. We'll see everyone next time. Thanks Women Crime is written and hosted by Megan sacks and Amy Schlossberg our producer and editor is James Varga. Our music is composed by desert media. If you enjoy the show even get access to add free episodes exclusive. Ama's and other bonus content for a small monkey contribution from Patriot to find out more visit patriotic dot com slash women. Kline sources for today's episode came from the Holloway Files. Abc's Twenty Twenty Fox News and oxygen. The disappearance of Natalie Holloway.

Natalie Beth Holloway Aruba Natalie Holloway Natalie She murder Ludwig John Ludwig Stephanie vander sloot Alabama Natalie Holloway Foundation Natalie Holloway Resource Cent US Nikki Peru Dave Rubin FBI Extortion attorney Cremate Holloway
Max Holloway win vs Calvin Kattar, upcoming UFC 257 Poirier vs McGregor, Hooker vs Chandler

THE FIGHT with Teddy Atlas

1:13:05 hr | 5 months ago

Max Holloway win vs Calvin Kattar, upcoming UFC 257 Poirier vs McGregor, Hooker vs Chandler

"Welcome to the fight with teddy atlas. I'm ken reid. Joined as always by legendary trainer teddy atlas. Today's episode sponsored by dynamics striking. Thanks for being with us teddy. Awesome fight this weekend. Calvin cater max. Holloway max holloway. Looked unbelievable calvin cater. Looked like you couldn't beat them if you had a hammer. Incredible action cater took a beating from holloway. Would you see there. I see why again. I see why the ufc has grown brand to the to the size there s they just put on fights. I mean they know how to give you. They don't give any of these guys layups or slab like you get in boxing. Quite frankly you know they. It's extraordinary. i mean though just one after another competitive tough unbelievable bouts doesn't matter if the guy's lost three of his lives four two of his last three. Whatever it was that holloway. Laws doesn't matter don't matter he goes in then. He wouldn't suffice fight in a brutal exhibition of toughness for cater. Just dana white. You know you you have more leverage when you're the man who's in charge completely and there's no other promoters and other places where you can go and develop your your brand. Do it where you protect. Your guys have a deal with the network and you're only gonna put as with bees and a never win bali and sometimes it's as would see ds but not in this fort and this sport. He's in charge. He being dana white and he can put all as an ace. And every time you turn it on and that's why audiences responded way it has and has grown the way it has so in the prefight analysis. I made a note to myself holloway. Three years younger but the more experienced fighter former champion has been with the opposition. Step up in competition for qatar for kate. I'm sorry for keta and holloway. While sean his experience level and ability it also reminded me can an a nutshell of what customers model. My mental used to say and it was just as birthday. Happy birthday up there. 'cause he used to say teddy. You got too tough guys because it is a prerequisite to be tough in a boxing. Business or in a ufc may business. You got too tough guys. Ted and one of them is smarter more developed technically and all of a sudden. Here's the scale teddy. What the guy who's smarter becomes tougher because he's not relying only on his toughness that set for for for the most part. That's exactly what we had on that night. Exactly what we had you. You had the guy who struggle physically. I think that's that's fair cater. Who was the better puncher. But those things can be off. Set and holloway holloway. Showed how those things that's why it's called the sweet science. Let's say you have abc's is called that. But in my sport boxing and i know the parallel with with with disliking pot the same things required. Technically mentally emotionally spiritually. You have to have all those things. The confidence to believe the toughness and that that was the sweet science at work by holloway. I mean he's showed it's not enough just to be the bigger punch not at that level. It's not it's not enough and it's not enough to go in there just saying i'm going to land a big punch because that's the way that's the way it looked almost like cato approached. A way looked where he just came the his intention was to set himself so he could use his power and he was going to land a big shot. But that's not enough not at this level now with the other guy has a plant. And that's a big part of it. Holloway had a plan. He had a much more extensive plan. Eddie was much more versatile. He's showed that first toady. Those dimensions cater looked like a polished boxer and holloway looked like a polished. Mma fighter he had elbows kicks the knees. The movement and keta looked like a classically trained boxer. Did you know no. I didn't see it that way. I'll tell you why. I understand the question but i didn't see it that way because to me. A classic boxer developed boxer. Whether it's whether you whether you're making the differentiation of striker for the ufc may or you're saying for the obviously for the fight. Business to boxing business. They develop that part of what goes with a classical boxer. A devel- boxer is all the other virtues that go with fighting the proper virtues of the proper techniques the proper dimensions. Those things warren. If you had a guy in my game in boxing that showed up looking away that cato looked and i'm not knocking them in any way. Oh my god what a warrior. What are some all right. What a viking. But looking just for the big punch in my business you would say. He's just a slugger he's just you know he's just a guy in some ways i hate to say it but a catcher because he was catching so much a guy who's just they're looking for one dimension out of a multi dimension sport so it's not fair to say. He looked like the classical boxer. He looked like the devel- boxer. Because to me no he didn't because develop boxer on a given night if he is that developed boxer that i'm talking about he's bringing to the game more than power more than toughness. He's bringing head movement. He's bringing understanding of distance. Bringing a plan and i didn't see that i just saw tough guy. I just saw a guy who could punch and was looking to land it but nothing beyond that. no. I didn't see that classical boxer and i saw the classical boxer. Believe it or not in holloway. I saw i saw what i saw. Nine thousand nine hundred eighty one of my favorite fighters daddy indian red lopez. Abc was the network and he was fighting who defending his title. I loved any indian red lopez story where he came from. He used to have to eat sugars sandwiches because they had no money. No food he grew up on a indian reservation where It was not a poverty and his brother was vital before him when he was about fifteen sixteen said. This is my way out. I'm going to be a fighter. And i have to be a champion. I have no choice. Because that's the only way i'm gonna get out. And boy became a champion and he was a favourite. And i and i love them and but he was a tough guy he got hit too much. He was a slow start putting pudge like how with the right hand the same thing as cato. Cato punch like hell with the right hand and indian red. Lopez was undefeated featherweight champ of the world. Like i said it was one thousand nine hundred eighty on network television and he's fighting an unknown fighter at the time named salvador sanchez. Twenty one years. Nobody knew much about salvador sanchez. Always fights a bit in mexico. He hadn't been on television. Nobody knew who all they were gonna find out they were gonna find out they were gonna find out and i found out he took by. He took my daddy little red lopez apart piece by piece now lopez just like keta hoggard all night to the referee finally stopped in the thirteenth round. But he wasn't gonna. He wasn't going to submit. P. was give in but he took a brutal brutal beating all night. Why he was so tough ken. He was saul tough. Just like these guys. But he wasn't as developed as smart as as developed as sanchez. Was ed sanchez. Just put it on him. Gave him a boxing exhibition. Show with the sweet science was about. And that's what i saw. I saw the same thing. I saw the exact same thing. And you can have power. You have toughness. But there's ways to cannibals those abilities those talents those traits. And that's what the sweet science is about. Does what being the top in any fight. Game any part of the fight game whether resentment may whether it's boxing. That's what it's about understanding those elements and holloway understood that so the other guy was struck. The other guys are better puncher. But how's he going to be. How's he going to deliver that better punch of you. Don't stay in front of them if you don't let them deliver that punch if you use the digs al talking about to cadillac power to take away to enable him to use the bill tomato. Always teddy. Having a punch is like having a bomb. It's no good unless you have a missile to get to the target. Otherwise it's just gonna make a big hole in the ground and when it rains. You go swimmin- i 'cause you may attention. Wow go swimming okay. hope the water's muddy. Because i get it. So holloway understood what he needed to bring. So what did he kaunda. Powell was feed. His speed was much greater intelligence. A plan again. He had a plan. Get off. I get out like salvador sanchez. That my man in the red lopez he got off he got out he put combinations together the right time. And he made a transition holloway. I've seen away. He was just a volume punch. A guy that sometimes got greedy a guy that is sometimes true too many like your toll you get caught in the middle he. He changed that a little bit. He made a transition a little. Bit like marco antonio barrera did years ago. The great great mexican fighter. He did after he had been beaten by junior jones. he made a change. mugla antonio barreiro was just sluggish. Just a tough guy good left talk just real tough. Tow a lot of punches and empty got beat by junior jones. He made a transition became a boxer and he went onto tremendous unbelievable hall of fame. Career be great fighters at holloway reminded me of that he made a transition. I could see that. no. I'm not just going to be only a volume punch only a tough guy. I've gotta maybe moments of dissonance career but never this kind of level of consistency and now he said no. I'm going to buy in to be in this consummate boxers complete package and he did. He did everything right. I tweeted ken before the fight that cato was a really good counterpuncher was he is he said is the second best behind mcgregor evidence. You got it there. It is and he better. I had said that holloway. Better be aware of that which you know. of course. he's got good coaches he will but he better not going to door before he just budget. He better not just budget better fate. Knock on the door before he did. He fainted gotta. He kept them off balance. He didn't allow him. Maybe one time to really pull off that counter. Another thing that keta. I thought i thought it was a two years. A terrific strike. He wasn't able to show that on this night but kedah has a tremendous right hand. Like my man indian red lopez would always pull them out of trouble but tonight it couldn't pull him out of trouble because of what the other guy wouldn't let them to and was doing. It couldn't pull him out trouble. He had a great delivery system with the jabbing. Right hand keta. But he wasn't allowed to deliver because he was waiting in front to get off in his my thick. And that's going to be what i'm gonna do. And he never got a chance because holloway used everything in boxing one. Oh one had book everything. He beat them to the punch he he he got he got out he. He fainted kept balance. Oh my god he went to the body can remember what i used to always say on. Espn when i was doing a fights regularly at ringside put some water in the basement. Baby he put. That was part of the plan to you know why can so that there would be no there will be no comeback. He knew if he begged him in the body. And oh boy did he do it. He mixed it up so beautifully down. He knew that would take enough steam out of this unbelievably tof cater where down the stretch. You wouldn't be able to mount a comeback. That's what that was four. That's what that was four. It was kind of like you know you're you're robbing a bank and you make sure that you're all the ties. All the police costs one other thing. That's where they hit. Come after you one. Other thing worth noting is that max holloway didn't do any sparring at all in the build up for this fight he he. He justified it by. And i kind of get this. But i'm curious to get your take from trainers perspective. He he'd like into like nfl. Guys not like reducing the hitting later in the season in practice. Because i think he's had some head injuries in the past and some neurological issues but he cut out all the sparring. He said he doesn't need any more contact in his life. He already knows how to fight so he worked on fundamentals and conditioning. And i mean he never looked he never looked sharper as a striker. What do you what do you think about that. Approach no sparring. I i kind of thought maybe cater maybe cater is worth small. Bet here given that he such a good striker and holloway's not sparring. I thought maybe it would be a detrimental but it certainly didn't look that way. What do you think about that. I think it makes all the sense in the world. I've been there. I have old fighters his day. Spa us you know. They have more miles under your data. I'm not taking that car on long trips anymore. Short trips save it up for the long trip. When i need it makes sense. I've done it. So i know it make sense. I believe it makes sense. I'll tell you the key to sparring. When you're on your way up development as a fighter cap especially as an amateur and obviously early as a pro you need to sparring to become that guy to learn how to live element in that environment in that that noisy dangerous environment to learn how to be common on commonplace you need to sparring to get that you need that. Developmentally mentally physically technically but mentally. You're needed to develop a once you've developed and you've got that part of the game put away that experience that understanding of what. Your responsibility is how you responsible to behave in that environment. In that squared circle in that chamber of truth once you have enough experience at that enough sparring to have that under control. You don't need as much. He's one hundred percent right. You don't need as much some guys still do it. Because they feel comfortable like without it. I'm not going to be ready. But he's beyond that because he's experienced enough to be beyond he's still he believes he does believe he has to have that. And that's the key that's the key so and he has what he needs to be that granite that granite will resolve person. He got enough to understand again. What's going on in that. He understands how what what is the difference between a guy who's and developed in technical fiscal areas but not mentally not ready to handle the ninjas common over the wall the ninjas of doubt the ninjas of pressure that ninjas of fear he he knows what they look like he knows what they are. He's done hand to hand combat with them so he knows that he doesn't have to go and spa. Hundred twenty rounds which some of the fighters do for four camp one hundred rounds on ninety rounds. He knows that he doesn't have to do that so for him. It works developed. It depends on where you are in your career mentally mostly so yeah. I'm with you and when you have an older car again you don't want to be taken on these five hundred mile trips you know you're you're shorting them up and you keep it in a garage. You do the tune up and then when you're ready to go on a longer trip you're ready because you now have the pulse on birth out something else that i notice. It looked at times like holloway. Like you said cater was almost like catching punches and look into counter in hollywood would hit them with a barrage of punches and then he he almost recover hollywood and i thought at times cater with letting him recover too much where i thought okay you let him throw his punches. Now go get on him and he kind of let them recover. So almost gave holloway more confidence to recover an attack again. Recover attack again in no counterattack. Ever come and he was trying to counter punch but it was few and far between. Did you notice that and what we thought. I thought that it all comes down to what holloway allowed and didn't allow to do. He had a plan. It's too late to get a plan. Sometimes when you're there you know it's kind of like if you take your kids you know hiking you know you better. You better know the pets in the woods. Don't wait get say. Wait a minute. Which way is the lake. Which way is to highway. Which way is the car. You better that when you get into the woods before you get in the woods better know the pets you better have a plan and it's it's a little late when you get there and you saw trying to do it on the fly. This guy wouldn't allow holloway being. This guy wouldn't allow him and he wasn't. He didn't have a plan. B keta as far as more than being set on his feet so he could be that pow punch he was hidden no on the guy. Maybe i guess was going to have this kind of counter plan to take away all the things that has straight that that he wanted to be there with or wanted to be there for them. And i'll tell you something that we don't that wasn't talked about enough talked about the combination punching a speed advantage. All of it. Right for holloway. The faints to jab all the jab was a big part of it to jab block up his rhythm. The timing of that japan bank right at the right time. Every time to your question. That's the answer to ken writers question. Every time he had it in his head he being cater to start a bang that jabil set him that james would catch him in the sweet spot. Just wait to to them a destructor. It doesn't have to be a doesn't have to be a building collapsed. Just a disruptor edit distrupted him so he had to chip he had the combination he had to speed he had the face he had the iq he one thing that wasn't mentioned enough. The legs the legs so he could go in and out keep more subtly the legs you know why wasn't mentioned enough because it wasn't mohammed ali esque and he wasn't he wasn't bicycle laying around motorcycling around. The ring wasn't running. He was gonna say allie. I'm just making a strong point. He was just stepping at the right times and it was enough to keep the puncher the punch of physically and mentally. Because that's what he was physically mentally. He went there to be the punch to keep the puncher fum getting off his big shots. You know to know what he was. He was he was holloway. Was the bomb squad. He he was the bomb squad he came in there and he. He dissolved the bomb he was. He had a plan. You go in there. You can't stop wires if you're you're the bomb squad you can say okay. Let me pull the green. You know because my wife likes green at for no no. Don't pull the grade. It's the right. he knew which. Why is the poll. If you had been in caters corner what advice would you have been giving him after the for a second we got there before we got there in camp. But i'm still gonna answer question because after the first and second. I mean it was obvious that he was getting class. And beat up pretty good and i mean it just got progressively worse so i'm wondering from your perspective. What could cater at that. Point had done differently if anything change rage. Don't stand at the same rate. That's a good start ken. That's a damn good start. He got caught too much waiting in front. He was to second guy. He can't be the second guy in boxing. He was the second guy all night long daylight and a dollar short all night long all night long waiting in front. Change this and step out. You're not do not within a second. A second one went down to step out like the old timers would say go downtown. Go downtown take a walk around a corner that that's a good start to at least do that. And i would have used the more. He was looking for the big palace shots but he should have. He should've tried to set the other guys. Greatest weapon to gyp. The greatest weapon was suggest. I know the right hand was landed. Beautifully the body. I get it the combination i get it. But the jab is where it all started baby and he should use his old ship to offset that chip. So he wouldn't have been dominated. Holloway was what my shirt says. Faster smarter you know harder. They were both hard hard hard men and they both hit hard but faster smarter you know. That's that's what it was and He was prepared for that to his credit. He the other guy coverage chin. God's i i don't know how many times i said. Oh my god. I mean it was like i mean i was like oh my god all my god. What did you think of that one thing. When you see these great fighters and they're great guys are my business taken upon. But when when you calculate in here can that these picks he's over four ounce gloves almost bad right now. Ten ounce gloves and l. bowls and knees and kicks off. I gotta i gotta give him. What did you think of that. Strike that holloway kept hitting with where he would step in with an almost like an overhand right elbow where the elbow would come down right on top of Caters head which eventually cut his head open. Real bad which was causing the majority of the blood was savage. I mean listen creative savage creative creative mixing it up. How about i saw a combination. You know i'm used to seeing a right hand to the body may be right. That's creative right hand underneath right hand on top right hand to the body left to you. Know to mix it up. I saw a right knee and then the right hand. Wow wow i mean. Give creditors coaches to. that's not. leave them out. They did a superlative job. Getting guy ready for this fight and for this style. Because whether it's or boxing yeah and he was ready for the style of keta. I mean supremely ready supremely ready for it. I saw you like tweeting maniac. During this fight. I want to highlight some of the tweets because they got a ton of attention on twitter. The one in particular i wanted to ask you about. Is you wrote these men. Different light great explorers of centuries pass where they go to places other said. We're off limits. Because they needed to know what's there. Wow i was a great tweet thank you. Yeah that's can. I twitted it because i felt it and i saw i saw the reality of tests and i just felt these people need credit get credit. Don't give me get fifty thousand dollars. Bonus for that performance. They get the applause and respect of us and the crowds. But i wanted everyone to understand really really deeply how special these guys are. They all like explores back in the days when those sees they're still scary but when used to hit those seized those explores to find new land. Can they didn't have the equipment that they have today. We're raid on sewn on all those things all they had was that coverage their will to get their you know their understanding of how to maneuver nece- but they had big wooden boats and that saying all my hands on wooden boats. And what do you call the thing. Raba sceptre the navigating tool like old fashioned. I opened there and help not cloudy out. You know that's guy but they're out there and they're looking for new places and they they don't even know the coverage took and determination to be an explorer and those days they didn't even know of the earth was round. That's what i was. Just gonna say they still thought it was flat so they thought tree vehicle. Has this place where we'd never been before i might fall into oblivion until space. I think things that's still the case. So you handle the tweets when they come in on the other one that i wanted to talk about as well. Let me just put that one. I meant handle the ones that are gonna come from all his his fault and his great fans. So you you you take care of that. I don't know how to even begin with that. But those those that what these guys remind me of of those explorers that had none of. They had a compass. They had to up in the sky with looking at the stars and the sex is the word. I was thinking sexton sexton and we don't have those but they added sexton and they add the college in just the same thing. These guys have the desire to find. What's there that nobody knows that people tell us nothing there. There's danger there. There's oblivion there the you don't go there as a zone. You don't add to put these special guys all like those explorers that kept going into. they founded. Why because they wanted to know because they wanted to know what is possible. How falkiner man go. Yeah yeah really. How far can a man go and you never know to you. Go and you go further. You go further than people had been before you. You go into uncharted waters on shotted places and my god can. That's why i tweeted that. Because that's what these special men do and prepared to do on any given night they get into that octagon into that cage. They are prepared to go to places that have not been uncovered yet that have not been gone to yet and in doing soul part of my admiration and respect to them as that they shine a light for all of us to see what's possible. What is possible what is possible in the human will when the human was truly forged truly forged in a. It's all certain phya what we are capable of doing and enduring finding and they in that way. They teach us to not stop where we've been stopping. We don't have to go into an octagon. We don't have to deal the way these explores dealt with tidal waves and lightning and everything else and these guys deal with their own tidal waves of elbows and kicks and bear i. No we don't have to deal with that but we can watch these men and we can say we can deal with law than we've dealt with so far. That's what they teach us. That's what they add to us. The hope they give us to be better in those areas. And that's that's got me. They got me. And there's great fighters that bring that and do that and they got me too. I just wanna get. I wanna just finish bhai saluting them. And that's my way of saluting them as an added bonus. I think a lot more people got to see this fight because it was aired on. Abc basically an early evening fight in new york late afternoon in la. And i would imagine when the numbers come out if they haven't already that they're going to be astronomically high and what a fight to show our for. Ufc's debut on a major network. I mean they've been on fox before but not the old school. Abc nbc cbs. But to have it on. Abc is just wild. I mean such an awesome card from top to bottom but that fight was was tremendous for those sport it really is and hopefully people gleaned from it what. I just touched on some of that. Yeah instead of just. Oh my god the brutality you know they gleam some of what i just touched on ad. Won't cato was the explorer these all explorers but while he was exploited that you know the more bio people would enjoy this analogy for that. I love all this for you. What holloway. He was the conductor. Yeah he was conducted an orchestra. He was a maestro virtual walser performance. I mean it could have been a could have been played at carnegie hall. You know i mean it was played at abu dhabi but it could have been outside the cage in any kind of concert hall because it was fisted music. It really was fit stick. Music was that that my store that conducted that i used to see sometimes when by accident. I channel surfing. I see the great orchestras and it would catch my attention. But what you know as you can see. I had struck me. I had a little passion for it because one man was controlling so much. He was controlling. the based. the drums did horns to symbols trumpets. He was controlling all this loud music that that could overcome you. If it wasn't control it could be just loud. Think about it could be but he took that he had any made it into something beautiful because he control all pots he controlled when you in. When you went out perfectly synchronized perfectly synchronized can as you are as you always saw those lines and that you tweeted another tweet that i liked along the same lines with your with relation to the c. You said the fight truly is like the sea. In the way that holloway was the ocean and cater was being pushed and pulled like the tide holloway controlled rhythm and flow of fight. timing with jabeen distance and tougher needed cater. Only tough like i saw to show because would say tell you to of guys. One guy is tough fence. Well and that's that's exactly what holloway was and and he turned all that fisting music. I mean it could have been bach it could. I know you listened to box. So i picked. It could have been beethoven. I know you listen. Beethoven to really. Hey you i very. You're very cultured. You've developed a dimensional and it could have a really amusing these analogies. We're having fun. But i'm dead serious. He he turned something brutal into something. Beautiful he had a tough guy. That's looking to pay your heart out. And he was stat maestro. He knew when to bring the horns in he knew went to eliminate them. He knew to tell the trumpets to start really. And that's how i see it can. Yeah and that's that's the beauty from real fight. Fans i believe and fight is doing it because culture always tell me teddy you get to the certain level which i wanted to partly as a fighter and then as a trainer i had to get guys to that level. That's my job. 'cause would say to me when you get them to that level there's a power and here's a funny thing. A lot of people are watching it without understanding it. When they hear this word they they. They have trouble understanding how. It's possible that word could truly be used in such places but it becomes fun. It becomes fun because you have that. I know it's a lot of fun fun. Yeah because you're not you're you're in control your the conductor you're the one controlling all of that you're the one who's saying when and when not and when you have that power which is a whole package of i've been talking about for the last forty five minutes when you have that you have a power at its fun to know you have that power and that ability to control such things to control the universe control. The lightning thunder the rain. The how does snow that. You're that guy you can control all of that. Yeah that's that's power. That's fun holloway. Definitely looked like he was having fun in that last round. Yeah yes i like those tweets. Glad you read the mike. I people enjoyed them i they. I like them better. Yeah it's like it's like spaghetti. The second day i enjoy. I enjoy the second day if people aren't watching your twitter feed during the fights. They're missing because they're always very entertaining. Very insightful be curious to see. What's next for holloway. Because he lost that razor-close decision to vulcan off ski last time out and it'll be the third fight if they fight again and dana white said that you know that's the only fight that probably make sense at this point for holloway. So be curious to see what happens there. But i gotta tell you for even if it will even though they twice before i'm there for that that's that's too high level fighters like that's what you want to see the trilogy. Oh yeah which one are you talking about right. Now holloway vulcanology. Oh yeah definitely. I mean i think javed almost demand that now. Yeah now because of what. I touched on earlier ken because of the change to transition. A metamorphosis if you will that you know. He went from a catapult to a beautiful butterfly. You know that that holloway was able to make that transition the same way. As the great marco antonio barrera did he lost a fight and became that all around boxer and holloway showed that at least for this night he was that guy i want to see if he could continue to be that guy and can he be that guy with a guy that beat them twice. Even though a lot of people thought that he won one of those fights. I think he's earned that i think he's earned that right to get a chance to show that an addict. The audience wants that. That was an awesome card. And we've got another. We've got two more coming up this week. There's a fight on tuesday and there is but the big one is next saturday. We've got our friend. Dustin pori in with conor mcgregor This portion of the show is brought to you by my bookie. Check them out at my bookie dot. Ag use the promo code atlas at l. a. s. for one hundred percent credit on your first deposit up to one thousand dollars so you deposit a thousand they'll match you a thousand. You'll have to grant tibet with teddy. Dustin is a plus two forty underdog minus three hundred on mcgregor I know you're excited for this. One looking forward to talk dustin when it's over but what are you looking for here out of dust and with the maybe the greatest pure strike a nursery of ufc. I mean southport. Top of grill. Good puncher i mean we have some great young strike is now that that allesandra i mean so. Many of the that still making their way And and of course some of the greats. That aren't there anymore. Whether its silva or i mean. These guys were graded at so many parts of this game. I mean the and and then Jones now. I mean he's up to reason special special special but for just striking almost prototypical art of the way we look at striking. Not with all the other. You know bells and whistles said alexandrian everywhere because these guys are so athletic. The so special. They're going to be in their own place to. They're going to be the category. They are what it's all said and done and surveys already jones's already but when it comes to just for my business the conventional prototypical striker with power understanding range form technique. Mcgregor the best right now. I just that part of it. Not not touching on any of the other pods with the kicks in the other dimensions of it. So he's in there with diabetes wants so it's the mental. Look i from what i believe. In know about poor area and his character he will overcome the first hurdle you know the first hurdle is getting over. There i fight and the results of that. Some people never get past that pot where they all come with that. They never get that out of the review. Mira gulf of that hits the bad shot goes into the water. He the rest of the day. He's finished because he gave get past. That shot one thing. I believe that. I believe in my heart my mind my soul. That will not be the case with friend. He will have that in the rear view mirror. He will be there for a new night and new ideas and the experience that he's gained since that i fight is should never be dismissed door under value and not understood too. How pointed us. He was a baby then compared to what he is now a baby compared to what he is now. He's he's a bad now he's he's a whole different fighter person technically physically and mentally emotionally that that is something that does not get. I don't think can't get properly worked in when you make book on these fights you know how important that is. It will show that night. Only he knows so. Listen again. Mcgregor good punches. South poor tremendous tremendous striker good tremendous counterpuncher portray a different guy that he was the ability to block it out new fight. I think a chance for new result. Much more competitive. Because he's aware of what he wasn't aware for for not only aware of what demand fun was capable of doing that's important value but aware of what he can do. He was show of that now. He understands it and what what constitutes that. He understands that plot now what what what he understands. What does paralyze you in there. He he understands like that old saying The great old saito war where the guy to scout drought road ahead and came back to the troops. And said i've gone ahead and i've seen enemy and i it's us and that's kind of what experience when you're young and immature. That's what he quotes into as understanding. How your the enemy that you are not mature enough yet and in control enough yet to handle what's coming to understand how to handle it. He understands how to handle himself how to not beat himself. That's going to be. That's going to be an entertaining fight. I'm dying to see. I think it. Will i listen dangerous. Fight but poor pudge poor as a hell of a striker. There's a difference with size as far as reach. The most important part is don't get caught and funnel like could like don't get caught waiting in front and don't get caught on the way you know. Find a way figure out a way to get them to come to you or or for you to go to him in a safer way where you know. Walk into his strength which is his ability to make you make a mistake and make you pay for that mistake so make you create a whole a space and he fills the space that left hand. That's a real good powell. Punch that statutes in front of. I think it'd be ready for that. Says i can tell you. I think it'd be ready. I think it'd be enhanced from what i just finished saying and i still for those people that mcgregor lovers i get you. I know how good your guy is. And that's why. I say it's a. It's still a dangerous fight. But i believe paula is prepared. Better than as good as you could be bad. And is part of his life now. Has these at a better place. The the coleman is actually very interesting as well. We broke down the poor. A hooker fight. We've got Michael chandler like we've talked about on the last episode coming into the ufc. Making his debut against dan hooker when he was coming in chandler was saying he only wanted like the top two or three guys. They're putting them in with hooker on paper to me knowing what i know of chandler and i know you probably haven't seen much of chandler but i would expect i would have expected chandler to be a much bigger favorite. He's even money right now. And hooker is a slight favorite at minus one thirty. I like chandler in this fight. He's he's an all american wrestler. I mean hooker is a great striker kickboxer. But like what we've seen with habib against dust and khabib against mcgregor when you have that real high level wrestler with 'em a experience like has it just seems to be a lot of times we see one mismatches when the elite wrestler gets in there with the striker. You're your thoughts on that. I did my homework so to speak. I wasn't going to let you take all the and all that. And i. I did my work. I caught the best scout in the business. Not not in in the sports business. He happens to be in football. His name is teddy atlas. The third my son who works for the las vegas raiders. And they're getting better all the time they gotta work they they know they have to work on fence and all that but i gave a quarter him. As soon as i feel that i was up against ken rider. I said i'm up against ken. We let them win. He said but i'm i'm on it. You got film on the way. Had i got the film and listen. I agree with you in a lot of ways. Obviously if you're that wrestler you have to get to the lakes and hulk You know the kick boxing history. That okay has That i would think of santa tries to close that gap to his legs. Hokuto obviously has a moment to to be able to try to catch them on away in with an uppercut some but to get to the real stuff. First of all hokka who's added disadvantages. You said if it comes to the mat with the background that chad last chattel was all american wrestler from the university of missouri and they make good wrestlers from what i understand out in those parts of the country iowa missouri. All those places and so. He's got the on arguable advantage if they get to the mat but one thing that hooker show me against pori the ability the adaptability worked out ability advanced ability to handle so pretty damn good on the math. He hands them himself. Pretty damn good with pori on a mat and was able to escape certain. Get out of to take down. Get back up when he had to. So he's shown me that sometimes you don't have. The winner knows areas. You just have to survive in those areas to get to your strength to get. I used to train fighters that were never going to be great insight fighters. Ken and i used to tell them. Look we don't have to be great on the inside because we're going to be great on the outside but we wanna be able to lease survive and hold a role on the insight and that's kind of a little bit of handicapped to cap. This fight for my is that hokey can survive. He doesn't wanna be there too long. There's no doubt that. Chad has the big edge now to me. The big thing is when i watched chandler. He's a pretty damn good striker to. He's got a good right hand. Nice and straight and he's tricky with it. What do i mean. I seen him. Trick is where throw it in a tricky way. Where again i've always talked about. It's not enough time powell. You have to have a way of conveying it. A missile so to speak A technique of real goal to convey to the target right and he has that his slip over to his left. like these dudes. Something there to get your is to go there by control the right hand. And he doesn't only by the he's pretty damn good at that pretty and that throws you equilibrium so channels. Pretty damn good at his form would striking. He goes to the body with that right hand he got. He knows how to deliver to that He he's he's good with that. Hooker of course is very diverse. Tough had very verse at the standup. You know the striking. there's no doubt about it. The pitfalls for hooker is he something that should be strength doesn't always equate to a straight fam- he's tall that most guys. He's gotta be four inches. Let me just look at my notes. I wanna make sure. I'm accurate that he's going to be four inches taller than chandler. Sure yeah that's good. So he's going to be four four and fifty four years younger to hawker but he's also four inches taller than chandler. Here's the thing. Here's the problem i used to say this on. Espn all the time. It's not enough to be tall. Have an advantage. You have to know how to fight. Toll hook has the advantage of being taller in stand up with channel four inches tall as i said but he doesn't always know how to fight all inappropriate. Friday had that advantage to but he allow pori to get a toy was smarty roman. Sometimes but for the most part he got hooked to fight small. well hook is more than ready to oblige you to fight a fall booth. Even though he's so talk here go a fricken and a little old fashioned phone booth at alltel lobby and we love it and we love him for it but it says detriment. Sometimes he gives up that length he gives up that height and instead of Straight he gets close and he starts bending ill and when you're bending the elbow because what that means that means you're close to a guy that means he can hit you too and i could see the nose kind of engagements because again doesn't much to get this guy to engage with you to give up his height so that that's an advantage of hookah uses it but through the fight. I haven't seen them consistently use that height advantage. So he's going to engage which adler that means. It's gonna be interesting good fight and hookers tough. He's got a good shin. He ran out of petrol. A little bit of foul pori little bit little bit but hippie ready again because of his willingness hook of engaging with you hit full that that forage advantage right out the window wind up being in close quarters at that. Point chad la. I've seen them throw nice straight punches. As i touched and go when it gets close gives you a chance to pledge inside with him what he starts round punches. He gives you a chance to throw those allies right here right here right down the middle. So that's an opportunity for chandler with a straight punches to go right in between those white shots so that's the way i break it down It's a i i would not dismiss hulkah- hookers the guy who's been in with better competition hookers been in a ufc. This is the first fighting a ufc for chandler He's a formidable. he's four years older than hokuto. I again hocus. But in there with top top caliber guys like portray and many others. It's gonna be a. I would not close my eyes on khokar that that competition that love of competition knowing that you've been in that level of competition that helps you physically technically and mentally Chandler's hey he might wind up becoming one of those you abc's stars that came from. They all come from somewhere he might be the guy that comes into the ufc and you know bond storms. His way it's a great fight. It's i'll tell you this. I can't help it. I have to talk about this as a cold feature ken. How much better all the cards for the most part on u. of c. The in boxing that what that what. I'm leaving just to you. You'd have to be crazy not to tune into the earliest prelims on the ufc. Everyone who is on the main card starts on the early prelims everyone. Who's there like you've said before his tough. Everyone's good you don't slip through the cracks and get into the ufc. Most of the time. You have to fight your way onto the show and dana white's contender series another another marketing genius. Play by dana white. Between the you have the ultimate fighter show and now dana white's tuesday night fights series. I mean the guy has got it figured out it again. It helps to own the whole ecosystem in control all the fighters and make them fight. Who you want to fight. But he's handling it perfectly in terms of delivering value to customers. Because i would never miss any of the fights on a ufc card from the earliest pre limb to the main event. They always live up to expectations. You get a few duds here and there and dana will typically threaten them with kicking them out of the ufc if they don't bring the excitement the next time and so again if you like. What teddy had to say on the handicapped of the to the main in the kobe. Et one j. Let me add one last thing. One last piece to the handicap on the side of khokar withers height when he uses the user enough. He makes himself to available but one thing that got driven home x two. After watching the story. We did to fight camping Companion enjoyed it for the whole quran. Poor five we figured it made sense to do it last week because obviously poor we fight coming up with mcgregor but the one thing that really really really really struck home to me and i just stayed in the easiest barest of of of ways hocus to ease it ahead for guy that tall and add experience with his background and kickboxing he. He never really developed any real kind of defensive Responsible defensive technique He he's he's just tweeted ahead. And that's that's something that has to be figured in here. When i'm given these fans to hopefully the two best handicap that i can give when they're trying to make the decision which way to go as said that that that has the body of his heart his chin pulls them out of those fires but those fires get created a lot to on one of his fights. It's like you're going around putting fires out a lot like a bunch of boy scouts out their camp it out that there's all bunch of tenders going on Lit up all over the place. He just doesn't move his head. He does whatever whatever way you want to talk about a defensive talent. He doesn't he doesn't use those abilities. How it's it's not. It hasn't been advocated in most of his fights. So that's the thing that he's he to me he he's got to become harder to hit but he's got all the hot again. He's built like a punch of being wiry way can get leverage into the punches when he wants to he can use his jab to control the outside because she's because he does have that height and he does have that length of should be good. You know it should be good. I mean chandler. Has that weapon. You need to take away. Someone's jeb that counter right hand way. Control that nice straight right hand over the jam to discover somebody from algae avenue so there it is. That's everything and again to just to expound a little bit on what you went off on. I know we're past christmas. But if it was christmas be wishing for boxing on the cards like the ufc gifts that would be on my wishlist. I could could these guys these promoters that. Forget about what i could call them. You start with a very nice word greedy. That's very nice. I know screechy greedy. You could mix it. I'll confuse it. He said he was greasy. Oh he just said he was greasy. I'll tell you said those but now all greedy but if they could just give us a of undercard once in a while once in a while how the way that they do with the ufc. Yeah well if you like what. We hit what they had to say on the handicap. And you wanna bet on the fights checkout mybookie go to mybookie dot. ag use the promo code atlas. You'll get up to one thousand dollar credit on your first deposit deposit thousand. You'll have two thousand in there to play with Teddy before we sign off is the Are the tampa bay patriots. Gonna win the super bowl again. I knew i was wondering when you get to that. I was checking my friend. Go cracker burger the best handicap in on the under over the i would. Ken would have to bring up where it was just just just banging at his at his his heart the doors of his heart all day long to that he just couldn't let go of the fact that brady left new england and he just brought tampa bay to the afc championship game. I was. I was an unsolvable you to your credit. You went over. You went over because we'll top also. Don't forget about gronk antonio brown. They've got almost the whole team there. Yeah okay so. I think the patriots are going to get a ring to if tampa wins. If you have any say they will Yeah if you could talk to the commissioner speaking of handicap and who do you got win the super bowl quick you know. I have believe it or not. I think buffalo is going to upset kansas city. I know mahomes was was hurt a little bit but i think he'll be back. I think it'd be. I hope he is. I always back. I hope he's okay. And then in the game with tampa bay green bay green bay. I think green bay or wind up winning there and at the end of the day. Believe it or not. I think buffalo the real underdog to real you know cinderella of your world the beginning of the season They have a good defense. That quarterback is doing a hell of a job with the offense. I think buffalo. I mean. I know the favor would be green bay. It goes the way that i just said it With aaron rodgers playing just unbelievable. Brady's play an unbelievable but mahomes if he's healthy. But some of the great great quarterbacks. But i just think that i just think that at the end of the day buffalo. Really's her just a they might have older sizzle. These other teams have like aaron rodgers mall but they got to stake. They got to stake their solid. They are solid in a lot of areas. And they believe. I'm i'm going to believe it or not with buffalo bills that not too many people taking out one. I loved the buffalo fans. I think that they're second-to-none day. They they show up every week and I'd be all right with him. Buffalo win it even though they're in the patriots division. I like them. I love to see them. Get a win But anyway we got a lot more football talk about in the coming weeks and a lot more therapy for you to get over the fact that brady took tim. I'm there for you. I just want you to know. I really have for you. I know that your wife your beautiful wife went and she paid for some people you if i can also assist on that. I'm a phone. Call away from your brother. All the alternative psychedelic therapies. You can handle. I've tried at all But nevertheless lots of good stuff coming up unfortunate we don't have any really big pri- profile fights coming up for the foreseeable future anyway. The coleville fights been canceled. Shockingly kovolev found to be using banned substances seems to go along with the narrative on colville every silly From streaming the canal fight on his instagram live on a network that he's under contract with i. It doesn't seem to make you have some work. Could be in that dumb nam cy. Why am i gonna hold back. Hold back on other people that i think deserve to for you to say for me to say that we'd say the truth here. I mean you have to work really extra haunt actual hard to be that dumb anytime. Someone gets caught using banned substances when they know they're in testing pool. It to me is much more of Intelligence test and it almost feels like someone that wants to get caught to be perfectly honest with you almost have to want to be caught to be doping in the testing window prior to the fight nevertheless de fights off two and a half million out the window apparently but hopefully we'll have some positive boxing headlines to talk about in the coming weeks. But we've definitely got a good one coming up this saturday and like i said there's another ufc card on this On tuesday from fight island so teddy. Always great guys if you want to hear more from teddy. If you haven't already listened to his audiobook please check it out on amazon available on all the platforms audible dot com. Excellent listen and All the videos all the instructional videos available anti namic striking if you wanna hear Teddy talk about all the different jobs. Different boxing styles Completely informative and thorough so excellent value. Their dynamic striking dot com. And you got anything before. We sign off teddy one little quick thing. I just with doing a on monday tuesday. So it's martin luther king's birthday. I just want to say to everybody out there. Happy holiday martin. Luther king day but even more i just would like to say and remind everyone if you wanna pay any tribute to a special man and we've had a lot of special people in history and we always try to pay tribute to them but if you want to the best way to do it as the do it the way that he started to care about each other to us care because he paid the hell rolled we. We have become a great country and we became greater because like camp where we've improved in areas that we had to improve unbeliev tremendous. Just open your and look we have. We can always get better and but we've gotten better and we shouldn't forget that and we shouldn't forget how we got there by caring. We got there by walking on a road that was paved in many ways. By men like mlk. Dr martin luther king. Let's keep walking on that road. That's not called backwards on it. Let's keep going forward on it. That's create holes in it and pot holes in it. No that's keep it paved the way. This great man paved for us. Please love us all happy day. Thanks for listening to podcasts. You're the best.

holloway boxing salvador sanchez teddy atlas cato lopez dana white ufc ken ken reid Holloway max holloway keta chandler holloway holloway Abc mcgregor red lopez keta hoggard ed sanchez marco antonio barrera
UFC Predictions with Pina  UFC 236 Atlanta: Holloway vs. Poirier 2

Sports Gambling Radio - By BangTheBook

24:37 min | 2 years ago

UFC Predictions with Pina UFC 236 Atlanta: Holloway vs. Poirier 2

"There's firefighter Raphael poor yet for firehouse subs. Introducing new firehouse pairs pair, your favorite small sub with a signature side, like the awesome, five cheese, MAC and cheese. And remember, of course of every purchase at firehouse subs goes towards helping first responders firehouse subs. Enjoy more subs saved. More lives. Participating locations only firehouse subs. Donate a minimum of one million dollars in two thousand nineteen to the firehouse subs public safety foundation by donating point one one percent of every purchase. Well, let's get everybody thinking for joining me here on this special edition of bang book radio. We're going to break down UFC two thirty six with Christian. Pena of the sports gambling podcast as I mentioned here over the spring and summer where do some of these one off shows for UFC. Triple crown masters all kinds of different stuff to go along with the better spock's it'll be bending podcast every Monday and Thursday Christian. How's it going today? Man good man is going to say I missed you for the week off. But we were doing against the back end of the home and home now had young because I couldn't go a week without talking to you, buddy. But UFC is back, and it's a great time to be in this man, we had what like eight nine in a row took a week off. And now we're back with another run of every single week. I appreciate it. Thanks for getting me on your show last week. And got you back on my show here this week. So I feel a little bit more normal being in the host's share here this time around. I know that's going to be something. Interesting for you to all the shows that you host and all the shows that you're on. Yeah. It's a little bit different. You know, when I do radio around town in Vegas at different sports books or podcast. And then you don't do the weekly. In myself. But I get man you are the consummate hosts professional, so don't let anybody ever tell you different. But I wanted to give people the opportunity to kind of get your story because when you host so much, you know, you kind of put yourself in the background. And I think you're such a bright baseball mind that need to be kind of showing and showcase their self. Pleasure. Was all mine is always my friend. I appreciate it. Anytime you want to rap about anything on your show or on my show definitely up for it here. And speaking of rap, I guess, that's maybe a pretty good segue into this week's you have CNN down in Atlanta, Georgia at state farm arena to interim title fights here on the card five fights on pay per view, four on ESPN four on UFC fight past. They're all digital networks. So overall Christian again we had last week off. So they kind of loading up for this card. Then I would say, you know, that it was intentional that the loading up and think they just kinda needed to take a break when they kind of frontloaded the new ESPN scheduled. But I mean when you look at this card top to bottom, as you know, by doing this together, I think you know, there's usually one specific. Theme to a UFC event, for whatever reason on why they do it that specific way, this cards theme is really a one fighter is much more well rounded, perhaps, but if you bet on said favorite or more, well rounded fighter you're going to be holding your breath the entire way because everyone of these underdogs has one specific skill set. At least I can end a fight, you know, within any given second one punch one take down once admission despite whatever it's been going on throughout the fight in through each round. So to be a really interesting kind of very live underdog, but one specific path to victory. I would say for that underdog. Now in terms of the way that this card is structured, I think it's very interesting because we talked about this before here on the segments that it seems like there's always a quote unquote main event of the fight past car, and it looks like a pretty good one here actually Curtis will end and below Muhammed. We'll talk about that fight here in a little bit. But in terms of the five fights on the main card here. I mean is this a nonstop action type of pay per view card or is this. Or a technically sound main card. I think the two Komen events sh should be nonstop action. Maybe a little bit. You know, when we break this down from abroad perspective. This is what I'm talking about max Holloway, Dustin, poor a Holloway in my estimation. The much more well rounded fighter, but dust Emporia with wins over just engaging nocco wins at that Eddie Alvarez if you bet on Holloway. You're you know, you're going to be petrified of those hands of dust Emporia. You look at Sonya probably the more well rounded fighter but gasoline could take this fight to the ground. And you never know if you know, no one has ever been able to get in close to even try it. But that is you know, a path of three four a live underdog. You look at Roundtree Anders Rowntree kinda came up as a wrestler. Anders kind of came up as a wrestler as well. But had much more power in the hands. Rowntree kind of has shifted his game into a kill or be killed mentality which has had mixed results. So if you bet on a favorite Anders, you just don't know of Rowntree's going to go up there and say, this is my new style. Let's go and kind of see what happens on that front when you look. On down through the card. I mean, pollyanna Botello has the most, you know, finishing capabilities in one hundred twenty five pounds, which is a little bit of a breath of fresh air seven out of eight over wins Viet knockout. So as you go on down through this line. I mean, max Griffin. Zelina D'amoto is the same exact way, and as you touched on with Melinda and Muhamed Mohamed, and my estimation a slightly more well rounded aspect in every single area. But Melinda has shown time and time again, the propensity to throw a, you know, a little your IRA Hollins game as I like to say with the flying es all of that. And then on down even to, you know, one of the first car, I fights of the evening. Randy Kosta has knocked out just about everyone within the first round. But Brandon Davis has shown to be incredibly durable in decision machine. So on down through the line, the the theme kind of overlaps throat every single card here as you look at this main event here with Holloway and poor ya. I mean, they fought each other February fourth twenty twelve so this is a rematch a long time in the making to say the least. Let's start with this from the Holloway side. Because it wasn't a good look last year for max Holloway in the summer months. You know, he was supposed to be on that one fight card. I believe in Las Vegas had the really strange interview. He got taken to the hospital. You know, they thought that maybe there was some concussion symptoms simulate that, and we all had a lot of questions going into that fighting Brian Ortega at you have see two-thirty one any passed that test with flying colors. So how do you evaluate him? Now. I mean, you just assume is kind of back to normal. Well, here's the thing. It wasn't a good look and so- Holloway Holloway's camp. Did the thing that they should have done. I don't think it was anything to do with concussion issues. I think he was draining his body to the to the point of complete shutdown complete exhaustion and Holloway is going to lightweight. You know, this is the way cut has always been the biggest issue in the world for max max Holloway now at one forty five instead of trying you deplete his body dehydrate his body to the point of death in exhaustion. There's a very real chance here that we get the best version we have ever seen. In of max Holloway now max Holloway, the reason he did that so much to deplete his bodies because of the size advantage that he had at that way class. He still is going to maintain that size advantage throat. Most of his opponents he does give up about three inches of reached a poor. But when you look at this he still has a two inch advantage as well a leg kick reach of about two inches. So Holloway isn't giving up as much kind of size to the, you know, bigger fighters in this division that I think a lot of people thought of maybe Holloway's camp thought, but this is the right move for him for career longevity. We have seen this from a guy like Daniel Cormet who struggled with the way cut look Holloway was not going to be able to do that to his body anymore. And I know he's only twenty seven, but as we saw time and time again it was causing him to lose fights. It was causing him to lose money. It was causing him to lose health. So this could be in theory, an improved gas tank from Holloway, which was always even at that level of depletion. Probably the best. No in the division. Definitely. Maybe even in UFC, maybe even an increase in power on. So this really could be the best version of max. Holloway. So he did kind of everything that you would want to see I'm from this. Now is it technically still an unknown of how he fares at that weight shore? But in my estimation. I don't see a downside. We saw this cormier we've seen it with gasoline seen it time and time again when guys kind of make that jump. It's genuinely a very good career decision for them. Now, Dustin Poirier, look, this is exactly what I talked about. He has, you know, look Holloway to me is a very high fight Accu guy something in the like of Tyron Woodley, Daniel cormier, these incredible Stephen wonderboy Thompson, these guys with huge fight IQ's, and those are the type guys I gravitate towards Pouria. Nothing doesn't have a a great fight IQ. But he is looking for the knockout he's a little bit of the just engaged Alvarez moult. He wants to entertain fans be UFC's most dangerous, man. That's great. And as we saw sometimes that will work against a high fight Accu as we just saw Stephen wonderboy Thompson upset, but to me Holloway is just leaps and bounds. Mentally and fight aspect wise above when we talked about the fact that they fought. Before that was not this version of max Holloway or even Dustin Pori in. So, you know, as I always liked to talk about fights at have already happened. You really cannot take anything away from that version of each other. So really laying the number with Holloway here. Then you know, it's a big number of the minus two ten but a fifty percent ROI does make some sense to me. This fight is probably going to the championship rounds and over two and a half at mine is one fifty to me would make a little bit more sense only because I don't see a I don't see this being a crazy Josie Aldo Conor McGregor type of situation, but an eleven second knockout or anything like that. I think both guys especially Holloway with this improved gas tank, improved weight and even more weight on him going to look to feel each other out. And even if nocco does happen, I see kind of or submission, whatever the case may be three four maybe the fifth round. But I think a Holloway decision is the most likely, but as hands again, if you bet these numbers that look enticing Pora can ruin a night in a very quick fashion with the hands that he has moved to the middleweight inter. Championship fight here. Kelvin gasoline Israel out of Sonya and assigned you I mean, look, I'm happy to see him get this chance. I think this is a chance that he deserves. Now. Can he take the spotlight and actually run with it? Yeah. Look, I may be a little bit biased here because I have been on the Israel, Edison. Yeah. Cash bandwagon since his inception into the UFC. I think he is special. I think he has a chance to be the next John Jones when you look at this kid physically a is the mirror image of John Jones. And I know that was kind of always the, you know, the moniker that was put on him. It's just when you look at this. I mean, we're talking about a guy with an eighty inch reached that is a nine and a half reach advantage over Calvin gasoline leg five inches oddest on you does one thing great, not say only one thing. But the thing that makes us on your so special like a guy like Jones is the ability to strike at range. Nobody has been able to get in close to gasoline to even test the chin to even try to take downs because his get up game is on top of the world right now. Look, I think I'd assigned you special. I think this is his moment. And I think people are really forgetting there was a time when nobody looked more disinterested to be in a UFC octagon than Calvin gas. Lem gasoline has folded time and time again when the lights are the brightest. And I think a minus one eighty you know, it's a little bit of the bottom of the market to me. Honestly, only because again, all of those red flags with gas Dulum Addison, you hasn't nobody has nobody has shown the blueprint on how to beat him. But look nobody is really shown the blueprint on how to beat a guy like John Jones. And I don't want to sit here and say I want to compare these two fighters now, if I decide you keeps this trajectory, which is a once in a generation type fighter. He really the blueprint may just not be out there because it is so hard to get in close. I mean, again nine inch reach advantage is so so difficult to even infiltrate to try to stop the loan. You pair him with a impeccable. Take get up game from take downs. And it's going to be very hard to stop him here. I really think this is that a sign us moment. He deserves it and he's going to be. Special in UFC for a very long time. So outta sunny here five zero in his UFC career Wilkinson Vittori to virus Brunson and Silva victims that he's taken care of here. How much of a step up is Kelvin gasoline fraud assign you hear me how big test is. This look gasoline is a guy like like, I said is somebody to me that I just don't trust. Now when you look at this gasoline does have the speed. He does have the power to maybe put out a sunny away. But again, nobody has even gotten close enough. He is without a doubt Anderson Silva, look when you put the careers, you know, back to back there is no comparison that Silva is the more accomplished ready. You know in the groups of all time conversation that being said in current form a gasoline is far and away the best type of competition. It's just he's the best essay on paper because that's almost a disservice. It's just gasoline is a guy that has never been able to get over this hump. And I don't see I it's just a little bit. You know unfortunate for him that it is a guy like. Like on you on this trajectory that has passed every single test with flying colors. I mean, again, if I decide you it was, you know, think of it in terms of his spread. What is he doing? Is. He outperforming his market expectation. How is he looking in doing that in beating this guy's? Yeah. He's kind of taken it a little bit easy enormously taken it easy. But you know, maybe had a couple of decision wins when you'd have liked them to put him away in the first the first round. But to me that to me is playing it safe. That is getting out of there with a win which is the end goal within UFC, so guest. Yes, he is the quote unquote biggest challenge in biggest step up. But I just don't think that highly of guy like Calvin gasoline, despite of it are it's removing this light heavyweight fight here between Eric Anders and Khalil Roundtree. And I think from an athleticism standpoint, this is probably the most interesting fight of the night. Which one fight is that sorry, you cut out for a second. Sorry about that. You're looking at this late heavyweight fight here between Eric Anderson Khalil Roundtree, I guess is probably the most athletic fight of the night. And then ends a lot of intrigue to it. And again a little bit. You know, this card is little special to me because it has a lot of guys that I feel very highly about look, Eric Anders all the sudden losing three out of his last four, although I really do maintain that he beat Leo Machida that being said look for those who don't know Eric enders won a national championship at Alabama as starting middle linebacker. He was not just there in the background. He played every single snap. Enders is a freak division. One wrestler wrestlers on the wrestling team. There won all kinds of awards on the other side. Cleal Roundtree is somebody again, I'm a little bit. I think is somewhat overrated. Now Rowntree came into the sport as something of a wrestling. I, you know, type of fighter using his hands. Only as defense only as secondary nature when needed that has really changed for him. He is kind of adopted the four the fans just engage Alvarez. Says a model of kill orbi killed and like h e like portray like Alvarez he's had mixed results. You know, he knocked out a legendary kickboxer and go con sake yet, he got starched by vicious knockout by hyper prospect, Johnnie Walker killer be killed going to be I you know, it's one of those things that is this just his newfound fan-friendly style too. Because he realized he fought a little bit Coren, quote, boring, and even his style when it was the most boring may not have been enough to eventually keep his job in an exciting guy will always have a place in USC again, look no further than the guys. I just mentioned like h e who has you don't very much aid sub five hundred fighter yet. Here we go again with the hype train of killer be killed. So is it mill adapting new style that remains to be seen? This could be this. This fight could go a bunch of different ways here. This could be something of a boring. Wrestling match for three straight rounds at this could be something of a fire fest. I tend to lean towards the ladder. And I think that. Both guys are going to want wanna stand in bang. Both guys are proud. I think that this. You know, Roundtree is really making this transition to be more fan friendly of a nocco type of artists and Eric Anders to me despite the losses along the way has more passed a victory. Anders is just you know, by default, the best the better wrestler, and I think he has the better hands. He's more concise. The thing is here if Andrews plays it a little bit timid waits for his opening two long Rowntree cut open up around Roundtree head some serious cardio issues in the past while Anderson's schone can go the distance. So to me this one. Is there a ganders? But if this one doesn't go right for him. This could be the cautionary tale of a hyper prospect getting too much too soon that we saw within Ghana against Depaix. Anders verse Machida and so on down the line. So I it's a little bit of interesting matchup, but I would favor Anders here. Something about Anders. That does. It is worth mentioning is at his two losses late in two thousand eighteen I mean, he fought three times from August twenty fifth to December eight th so maybe it was just a, you know, two quick of a turnaround type of thing for him. Now. He's said about five months since that last fight. Yeah. And I think sometimes you need that reset right again not to compare the two, but we saw this with Francis. And then gone who sometimes you just need to take a step back. See what you know, what went wrong was it too much too soon where are you taking people lightly? Did you just think you are on top of the world and untouchable, those are all in the realm of possibilities? But it's you know. It's it can be a very hard thing for fighter too. You know? That's why you always to look for that first UFC loss one it's an undefeated hyped prospect because it's human nature to kind of take that as it comes and adversity can be very scary thing in so you don't guy like Anders. I think at the time off will serve him. Well, as he goes through this progression of his career. All right. So we got to other fights on the main card here. One in the welterweight division won the light heavyweight division anything on either. One of those fights stand out to you, truly not really, you know, open Saint Pruitt Nikita Krylov for two guys. I do not think very highly of they did fight just a few years ago when OS introduced the world to the von flue, choke, which was out of obscurity at that point. He's kind of made it his WWE finishing move now. But Krylov is coming back for the first time in a while and OS guy that to me he fatally against the upper echelon any somebody. Nobody beats bad fighters better. And nobody beats bad fighters with more. Than a guy like, oh, S P we've seen this kind of time and time again with him to me, he's just very untrustworthy soloist Krylov. So I really don't have much there for you. Mantell Jackson and Sukhum tough looked a minus five fifty favorites for Mantell Jackson. I think that's more of a when not if type of scenario, I think of Jackson by submission type of prop probably make some sense, China, look at the round prop under two and a half even likley make some sense as well there. But the last two on the main card not a ton there in terms of betting value are so we go to the pre limb card here on ESPN. I know that there were a couple of flights that kind of stood out to you here on this part of the show. Yeah. As we look down through this again overwhelming theme here, and I guess we'll just start at the bottom and work our way up Randy cost of Brandon Davis. Again, a guy I do not think is I don't think very highly of a guy like Brennan Davis. Now when you look at on the other side with a guy like Randy cost cost of Fourtou. UFC undefeated amateur is had some issues out there. But look he's eight now he has eight first round knockouts. He is just been in absolute killer. Davis is cutting down to one hundred thirty five pounds into me. Look this is like we said Brennan Davis. Maybe the more. He's definitely the more experienced. He's definitely been in there with the upper echelons the upper upper-echelon just better type of opponent than Randy costs. Because Randy cost has be absolutely nobody. I certainly get that. I mean, you look at Costa's opponents records, oh and four zero five nine, oh and one that being said he is absolutely starched everyone. Davis has shown that he is very durable. You look back at the fights with Kyle Bach. The AC and he's been able to kind of win wars of attrition, and grit and despite being outside all the way through this. Now, we're going to ask him to drop even more weight down to one thirty five. Look Davis doesn't do anything. Really great. This is one of the reasons it kind of pains me to say, this is great for the sport. But a guy like balk Nak to me is the same thing doesn't really do anything. Great. You can make a great living for yourself by being incredibly durable and putting on and detaining fights. I just don't see that in Davis. I think he's even you know, a much worse version of that. So I think that cost a probably comes out here. You know Davis has been so durable. I can weather the storm but cost eventually in. My estimation. Puts my way late for a little bit of an underdog play at their at the plus one forty next up Curtis Melander below Mohammed. We talked about that one Muhammed mine is one forty five why because he is the more well rounded fighter, you know. So melinda. Though, we talked about this. We talked about him when he was going up against Zeleski last time out. I did pick Celeski notch. Right. Did bet Celeski Curtis Melander. This is the thing. I mean, he is a little bit wild a little bit of a, you know, a little bit a much better version, but he has the finishing power out of nowhere. Like a guy like your hall, and so he can finish a fight from absolutely any position you'll see vicious head kicks. Ulysses spinning back kicks, you see everything and anything. And so if you bet on a guy like Muhammad who does not. Have finishing power is a decision machine point fights and fights is smart type of fight which you know. I absolutely love. Muhammad makes him sense. But you're going to be holding your breath for the knockout of Melinda from from bell to bell, regardless of what happens here, and then probably my favorite play on this card. Here's we go over to Jalen Turner, Matt for vol-. Jalen Turner, mine is one twenty five for villa over at minus one oh five this to me is a little bit of a mismatch in. It's one of those things when you have a line that kind of differs a lot from what you think you kind of think what am I doing wrong completely understand that here? But when we look at this, Jalen Turner is been absolutely incredible. To me when I look at his tape. I just you know, he's so much bigger first of all than for Vala giving up six inches of height to Turner. I mean that cannot be understated first and foremost, and it's it's the matchup styles make fights you'll hear me say that over over and over for Vala is in trouble. Here. Lucky relies on durability on doesn't have good technique doesn't do really anything. Great. And when you're facing a guy that's six inches taller who hits like a truck. I actually think this is a recipe for a when and not if type of fight, and I don't think for has the skills to get in close to land take downs which could be kind of his path to victory here because Turner should be able to tag him in along the way here. So I don't know unless there's a fluke trip villas able to get on top and sit on them for around or that type of stuff because Turner doesn't have the greatest MAC game. While. For volda certainly kind of has an edge there. I just see this one in as something of a mismatch and individual knockout for Gallic Jalen Turner here in that situation. One more flight I want to touch on here. It's the only women's fight on the card this one Lauren Mueller taking this fight. And it was originally supposed to be page van Zandt? But apparently, she's got a fractured arm. So she's unable to go here and Mueller finds herself a pretty big underdog in this one yet. And this is a good test for a girl like pollyanna, but fellow as I stated you know, Patillo is kind of bringing a finishing power to one hundred twenty five pound division. Now, do I know I think it's a breadth of fresh air and good for the sport. Yeah. But as you know, how like Tibet women's zonal British for the exact opposite reasons. Soc kinda screwing some things up there. You get a little bit of value as she goes up. Look. Yeah. Patel seventy-two all but won via knockout of her victories. It's absolutely been incredible to see a vicious body kick, not just fluke type stuff against the gas cans of the world thirty-three second vicious body, kicked his Surrey condo. And so she's been able to kind of do it. All here. Look, I would have because of how they matched up stylistically. I don't know. I didn't see what this line would have been against page vans. And but this would have been and again, you know, I was on page when the situation was right on the ESPN debut. They gave her a matchup tailor-made. This would have been a bloodbath for a girl like Patillo against van Zandt because that's just not vans game. It's really not. So is the bigger the bigger the better striker three in China advantage more experience. She is pretty much better everywhere. So to me, you know, this makes a lot of sense for the line to be where it is. It's a good test for a girl like patella Laura Mueller is certainly, you know, been around the block a little bit here. But coming in on short note. This is definitely tough against a knockout artists one hundred twenty five pound division. Pollyanna patillo. Well, we got a great UFC two thirty six preview overpaying the book dot com written by Christian Pino. You can follow him on Twitter at Christian peanut. And also check out his sports gambling podcast as well Christian. Appreciate the time as always meant. Thank you so much. We'll talk to you again real soon. All right, buddy. Good luck. Enjoy the fights. There you go. There you go. There's Christian Pena breaking down through thirty six with us. Make sure you tune in on Monday for another edition of the betters box. My MLB betting podcast now do for me they can start listing everybody and I'll talk to you again on Monday.

UFC Holloway Holloway ESPN Eric Anders Brandon Davis firehouse subs Rowntree Jalen Turner max Holloway Eric Anderson Khalil Roundtree Christian Pena Calvin gasoline Randy Kosta Eddie Alvarez Melinda Holloway side Roundtree Anders Rowntree Celeski Curtis Melander John Jones Holloway
UFC Predictions with Pina  UFC 240: Holloway vs. Edgar

Sports Gambling Radio - By BangTheBook

27:39 min | 2 years ago

UFC Predictions with Pina UFC 240: Holloway vs. Edgar

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This offer is limited to the next seventy five men who call you must act now to reserve your free dose of this breakthrough treatment. That's eight hundred nine four seven thirty three hundred eight hundred nine four seven thirty three hundred eight hundred nine four seven three three zero zero Jordan here on this special edition of Bankable Radio Four Friday July twenty six or chat. You have see to forty with Christian Pena of the sports gambling podcast. He also has a very good preview for us over at Begging Book Dot Com as you know. This radio show by our friends over at D._S.. Is Sports Woke B._T._v.. The number two hundred is that Promo Code One hundred percent deposit match from us for the sportsbook one hundred percent deposit match us for the live casino at Bet GSI. It's it's only a game until you bet we've been on every day this week on bank radio Monday Thursday Betters Fox Tuesday Wednesday Talk College football with Ralph Michaels and Laki lockers and respectively next week will be on every day as well the lot of stuff to come your way next week including a new edition of the Betters Fox on Monday at that point. I'll let you know what the schedule looks like for this week that go ahead and bring on Christian of the sports gambling podcast a chat here about U._F._C. Two forty in Edmonton Alberta Canada Christian today man man you said it it's only a game that you bet it and it's only a fight until you bet it man we look at these last couple cards and events and truthfully the free. Ones are a little bit better than this. There's a great rape main event <hes> that I'm sure even the most casual of fans can get excited about it. Max Plus Holloway going up against Frankie Eiger in what should be a really good fight in a lot closer than the number indicates about. We're looking at a lot of kind of lopsided in big favorites. It's here on this event in on this pay-per-view card that frankly the next free event is probably top to bottom a little bit more stacked and certainly last week's for even a little bit more stock tax from top to bottom as well now as we know transparency very important in this industry mystery full disclosure important as well and lot of the things that we talked about last week didn't really seem to come through our Lobski picks up that unanimous decision win with thirty twenty-seven across the board the Dan Hooker James Vic Fight. Maybe didn't necessarily go the way that you expected it zoo. What are you doing those situations? I mean you just sort of chalk it up to one off variants. Are you making adjustments as you go along. How do you sort of you'll look back at a card? I mean you said it right. I think that you know when I was talking about Olympic. <hes> that was a slight underdog that I bet on and I knew it was killer killed and he was either GonNa get knocked out or be able to get you know Harris to the ground you know and for the victory and it was the other option <hes>. I think that when you look at things you know the Edwards one was th- thing was pretty spot on but you look at our Lobski you know to me I'll take that short-term lost four short knowing that maybe he's GonNa get another fight and I'll have another opportunity to don't to capitalize again. So everything is always is a long game especially with this sport to me when things don't go right or you know there's a loss or whatever it is you gotta look at you know it's really the how much more important than in any situation when it comes to me and my handicapping the why in the how is so much more important than the what but you gotta look out you know was the handicapped right and you know I the big example I can always go back to is the over over two and a half rounds in inner Silva's last fight where he got hurt now. That was the right handicap the bet lost on on but I would make that but again in so you're GonNa look at the Y.. And if you you know handicapped something you know to happen and that outcome happens and it was just something that you did not plan on. You know that's something you learn from. Take your lumps immune look. We're we're talking about what <hes> forty events per year and you're gonNA get some stuff right and you're gonNA get some stuff wrong. Foreshore learn from it. Learn you know much more importantly than the losses is why it did and apply it the next go around as you look at that Olympic fight just as one example with Wall Harris twelve seconds. I mean what what what can you possibly take out a twelve seconds well. It's it's really yeah exactly right. You know the McGregor in the Oscar and Fi Gregor all though you know these are you know. Is it a fluke. I think that the McGregor one is a little bit more fluky all the style nightmare that no Mazza doll was for aspirin and so when you look at the Olympic look thousand percent I knew that fight was going to be killer be killed either get knocked out or get him to the ground and that could have been very easily if he was able to complete that take down. It could have been a submission in twelve seconds so it really went the way that I thought it's just the that split second of getting the take down or being or you know a limb connecting was the difference in so you can take. It's just that split. Second is all the difference between a winner loss in this sports. What makes a sports oh great well? We'll look for a bounce back here this week with you have to forty and really is you and I were talking here before we started recording when you hook up up and down the main card the story here is that we've got a lot of big favorites on the board so I know that a lot of people out there maybe undercapitalized. Maybe don't have the bankroll to play a lot of heavy chalk so in your mind is you're starting the look this both personally and from the client standpoint. How do you approach a card like this where you just have you know so many chaki fighters yeah? This goes back to the philosophy that either you agree with are you don't is not a lot of people that are in-between on this and the parlay option is one that I utilize a lot more than most professionals that that's a fact. I don't think I ever will over a two fighter partly but you know I was talking with another U._F._C. professor rush this week on my podcast instead of Vegas Daniel picks and we always go back and forth the mess because he was what the last time we talked about a year ago he was so against the parlay and I always tried to lay out the case that you know to team are two fighter pilot is so different. Different <hes> in a vacuum verses you know football parlay or anything else in there really is value when you're able to get you know to minus three hundreds and showcase spots back to back and knocked down that Ju- so I'm a proponent of them. I use them a a lot more than others. It's just you know the parlays are sucker. BET narratives bookies best friend narrative. I largely agree with that <hes> except this sport in there's many things that make you have see so unique to handicap you know public. BET splits are little bit different. There's not a lot of ticket volume me look at this upcoming and fight week. We have as the screen I believe like nine hundred <hes> tickets been written on this <hes> main event and you look at your compare that to a daily baseball game daily N._B._A.. Game and God forbid a weekly football game and you're looking you know what a twenty thousand of of hand on this to this point limits or kept low so when you have favorites look I utilize the parlay I'm not GonNa go searching if there's only one big favorite that I like on the card and it is what it is. I think you need to ask yourself what type of levels levels that you want out of this game and you get outs that have the open partly option. I know there's a ton out there <hes> in the offshore world and stuff like that not so much in Vegas for share but <hes> you diversify yourself a little bit <hes> be selective and don't just try to pair another big big favourite without doing the work with the one that you do so that's how I go about handicapping it. <hes> I always Kinda try to look towards the underdog in China make a case for that at first and at least figure out what that path to victory was in if it's likely <hes> but with these two you kind of Co main events. It's a little bit warranted in my opinion all right so we look at this one here the featherweight championship fight between Max Holloway and Frankie Edgar Holloway about a four dollar favorite out their second biggest favourite on the main cardiac or cyborg being the biggest favorite not surprise there at all whatsoever is this price warranted on Max Holloway coming off of his first loss and a very very longtime Frankie Edgar. Let me say this is by so far away my favorite U._F._C. fighter of all time and you can go down the line on why and undersized guy with all the heart in the world and you know the style of fights that I love and that is point fighting in knowing exactly what to do despite being exciting maybe being even boring. I love that type of fighter and you look at Frankie eggers accomplishments. I believe this is what ninth title fight looking for the strap for the third time and look. There's a narrative here that you know Holloway. I was wrong about holidays last fight. I didn't that Holloway in that spot but I thought by him not having to cut that way maybe he stays there and it would be the best version of Him we've ever seen we've seen his issues with the way cut at this week class depleting himself being sick having new <hes> pull out of fights so we're going to go down that narrative that road again and you don't fight with poor E._A.. Is going to take out of you. That is for sure now. He is Hawaiian. He has the Hawaiian Warrior Spirit. Maybe more than anyone else on the U._F._C. Roster. He is a he's impacts blessed Holloway Thirteen five win streak coming into you know that last loss than other narrative that does present itself here is one of my favorite angles to attack. I've talked about this time and time again is betting gutting against a fighter after a losing title fight <hes> it's made so much sense. It's been very successful. You think about it. You have your hopes and dreams snatched. <hes> you know what is your motivation starting over again. In all of that type of stuff we saw this with Nagano's the classic example against Derek Lewis and you know when the type of stuff happens. It's very real a little bit of a different in unique situation here as you know obviously Holloway just losing his champ champ status of but I mean my God it could be a very couple a very bad few months for a guy like Max Holloway if he loses both belts back to back that being said I really try not to go against Frankie dirt just because again I'm a fan of any kind of put that aside sometimes everything that Frankie Edgar does Max Holloway at this point does faster he does stronger and he does a little a bit quicker the past a victory for the dog here. This is probably at this way class. The best wrestler that Max Holloway has ever fought and the takedown threat is going to be there and what you're going to be able to do with that so that is definitely a path for. Are you know freaky Egger as the big underdog here Holloway's GonNa Dwarfing. There's nothing it is what it is. eggers used to being the smaller guy certainly but it's a big size differential here foreshore. There's going to be scrambles. The hallway should be able to win the majority of this fight with the distance control endure. I say you know outpoint Frankie Eiger at his own game and like I said this is just a little version of everything that Edgar does at this point in his career Holloway just a little bit bear mayor little bit better so it's warranted it certainly dog or pass situation. I would just go with the pass now as we look at Frankie Edgar here. I want to ask you about this because I know that you do like to go the round prop route. That's something that you've talked about a lot here on the show something that you've utilized quite a bit Frankie Edgar here coming off the torn BICEP hasn't fought since April twenty eighteen and that was a very very quick turnaround to take on Cub Swanson. What do you think about him getting into the championship round series is this kind of and even fight through three and maybe it's sort of search to tilt hall in Holloway's favor? Do you see around prompt you see maybe a chance to get Holloway live at a better price. What do you think yeah I mean look? You're talking about two guys with some of the point. <hes> you know hall freaky Egger famously had never been finished in that streak came to an end. Do I think has ten is now glass absolutely not and we know how hard it is to put away Max Holloway. I the the round props probably you're probably looking at four and a half honestly there are available widely every area but that's what I would make around prop out as oddsmaker book you know Frankie Edgar by decision was basically how I built my U._F._C. Bank to be completely honest with you. Much Floyd Mayweather by decision. Frankie Edgar by decision is that version of Floyd Mayweather in the U._F._C. and he was for a very long time everything about his game is geared towards point fighting in winning decisions and so we look back through his career that was you know what was needed to be done on at this point. He's just a little bit of different guys not shot by any stretch the imagination these guys been fighting his whole life his whole life and coming in at age thirty seven. You know it's very fair to assume this is the kind of last last Hurrah all safe of on the chip aspirations of a guy like Frankie who I have nothing but respected and admiration for truthfully so it's probably going to be four and a half. I I don't know that it would get me on board at that number and at that price because I'm sure it's going to be juiced to that over <hes> Holloway. Holloway decision probably doesn't make sense as well but these scrambles. They're going to be dicey. Honestly this fight. I think probably plays out a very close decision victory for Max Holloway so you know putting the gun to my head. I would definitely say to take that over four and a half but it's just not something at that price that I can get on board with last year was in the Championship Rounds July Ninth Twenty Sixteen over three years ago for fighter now in his upper thirties so somebody to keep in mind here as that fight goes along probably don't need to spend too much time on this one cyborg anywhere from six or seven dollar favorite here against Felicia Spencer we could maybe make an argument about how Felicia Spencer is Canadian and how the judging could come into play here but man I mean do you. Do you see any reason to gamble on the dog here. Look another one that is you know by price alone. <hes> something of a Dogar pass situation <hes> much like Holloway though Chris Cyborg falls into the category of betting against a fighter on coming off their title fight look Cyborg came into this into the sport of course he's been around a lot longer but she's basically female version of Francis in Ghana and that's kind of how it was built up just to give people a point of reference for what her game what people thought of her game and to the point when she was coming up and she much like Rasi the equality of division the quality of women's mixed martial arts at the time she was just so far ahead of and so much more strong then and she tore apart the regional scene and I get it you can only beat and do what's in front of you but I don't want to say the wherever you want to use the word overrated but she is hasn't lived up to the hype you go down and look at her last fights man and you're looking at you know overwhelming favorites minus nine hundred minus twelve hundred minus minus eighteen hundred one fight right and she's Latte you know she's leading. These girls going decision against a holly home. Who We just saw get knocked out in three seconds by Amanda Nunes She's not doing? She's not winning fights the way that she used to she's not with the quality of opponents certainly improved but if you look down the math kinda timeline I would expected. I did expect expect a lot more out of her in hasn't really it's been a little bit of letdown for her and her career. It's just been a little bit. You know lack thereof you look like a girl you look at a girl Felicia Spencer man this if she is able to get cyborg to the ground I I would not be shocked if she was able to take the back in when via submission a lot of very professional very sharp people had nunes winning that fight by submission against Cyborg as the path to victory. It's something of the same here there is. There's not an overwhelming size advantage which cyborg usually has in this fight you mean the reach so at the height to in China advantage of the reach is exactly even in the leg reaches exactly even so look. There is a path to victory for again. It's a dog or pass situation and I'm just GonNa take the pass arts as a move down. The main card here Jeff. Neil Nico price is another line with there's another flight I should say with a pretty big line neil a minus three fifty favorite here. What about this one? Is this one priced accurately yeah. This one should be a little bit of a barn burner here for sure. I mean you look get these two guys only four out of their combined thirty five Garner decision <hes> and this one is unlikely the judges scorecards as well. It's a really good match-up of two guys who liked to finish and should entertain the fans foreshore whoever I mean it sounds almost lazy lazy to say but the defense on the feet and who's able to apply this is probably going to know come out in a type of situation like this where two guys are gonNA Walk to the middle look for a Finnish band always Wanna try decide what the underdog <hes> this one really could go either way so I would definitely only go towards <hes> the underdog at this price here for sure but look equal prices. Just you know made a made a living and making a career out of finishing these guys along the way and looking great doing it and I think price by himself only garnered indecision once in his win so if he can't get the finish it it'll be very kind of you know dicey and you Never WanNa play that game with a big favourite like that so definitely would lean towards the underdog on this one fill out the rest of the man card here we got a couple of Canadian canines in the last two fights talk about Auburn Mercier plus one sixty and then you've got mark Andre Burial in the plus one forty five range so we'll have the crowd support here but both Canadians underdogs in their respective fights lights yeah we're talking like is it is it is the this Canadian judging Canadians priced into the and a lot of them are kind of underdogs. A lot of people are trying to make the case for Olivia mercy. I I don't see it in. I don't get it Arman circuit in is the because he can you know in theory <hes> Oh A._M.. May Be the better wrestler. <hes> you know you look at this takedown average two point six to one takedown accuracy thirty five percent takedown defense sixty five percent for O._e._M.. Accuracy eight percent and fifty three percent take done defense far for our cookie and so this one book I get it why people are trying to make that because in a chain wrestling match anything anything can happen. Limbs are flying everywhere <hes> but Sarokin has proved that you know he this is going to be a really hard. Ask for a guy like he is a great grappler in really better than people thought on the feet foreshore for the judo is going to be the key for in this one so it's GonNa go back and forth a chain wrestling fight. That is going to be a little bit if that's not your style. I don't know how much casual fans are going to like it. You'll definitely nico price fight more than this but I am has has got to be able to come in with the right game plan ends rookie and I think this is if he's able to put him away along the way and look great doing it. A rocket may get strapped to hit his back a little bit but look away. I'm the Canadian gangster is who he is right and coming in and rookie went into his debut against Islam Market Jeff I mean we're talking about a guy that you know. He basically was got out wrestled at his own game. That was a really tough spot to a really tough. Ask for him. Obviously market shove envy you know he's out of the family and no Sarokin really really looked good along the way yet you know just was too much too soon. This is a step back in terms of wrestling despite what it says on paper just because because there's not kept their along the regional seen here so look this one a lot of people are gonNA try to make the case for the dog. I would really think what the favorite armies rookie in here aren't so what about the dog and the other one then as burial gonNA give the fancy to cheer about here. You're against Kristof Jaakko yeah. If you remember back. He has yeah he <hes> his debut. U._F._C. was <hes> in Canada and I thought he was a great matchup for him to come out there light defense up with a Finnish and it did not work out. I bet him in his last spot in his debut did not work out. That's for sure he's a finishing nocco artists. Man Eight of his eleven pro wins via the NOCCO in winning three decisions along the way Manjaca is also a guy. I really can't trust I. I think that burial really should get it going in this one <hes> but it's a little bit tough to call here for sure. Look I guess that monster on the feet nocco at artists but Jaakko a lot more experienced of course knows how to point fight a little bit more. This is going to be something of a Finnish aero somebody searching in and head hunting for the finish while someone else's kind of trying new stick in move point fight and Jaakko cannot match power with him that is for sure you know the the dirty boxing and all that type of stuff the the volume approach that jock goes going to try to employ here. It's going to be the opposite <hes> on the end of Barry. Also it's going to be really interesting to see this is the type of fight. I think it makes for a great live. Bet <hes> what I would do is. I think that Jaakko probably wins. The early rounds the early exchanges with that volume point fighting try. It sounds a lot easier than it is right but try to get that price inflated on burial because the knockout could becoming at any time the volume certainly not there so this is you know one punch nocco power versus nearly no knockout power in the volume approach. This is definitely one that makes for a live that opportunity on Barrielle if you can get the right price in between maybe the first and second round even the small stab if it gets that's you know if he's losing badly in the volume exchanges in between the second and third. Maybe split up your bed a little bit that way but this is how that's how I would look at this fight for all right so the main card here on E._S._p._N.. Plus is on pay per view even though it's probably not as good at Cardis last week and probably not as good of a card as next week either. What about the prelims here we got you have seen fight pass and E._S._p._N.? Two anything you do like here on the free limb current yeah. Let's go down to another Canadian man. I mean this Kyw is a I mean we look down right. There's so many big favorites and to find a little bit of value on these close ones. Let's look at the Gavin Tucker and someone show Choi Fight Look Gavin Tucker. Has He really tore apart. The regional scene was a little bit hyped raped. He fought absolutely. Nobody spoke about this fight again on Vegas this week. It's a really weird. This fights gone back and forth a little bit and if you're into play the market in arbitrage opportunities this one's gone plus money on both sides depending on what book so so. There's certainly a little bit of arbitrage market opportunity here as well. I don't really agree with this price and the reason I say that again. Let's start with recline here. Who is rick on to be or I'm sorry not going Gavin Taco who just fought required you know why is he favourite over a guy like Choi? When you look at the quality of opponent here <hes> you know against Tucker look? He's a good enough striker to give everything that troy can handle and then some for sure has a little bit of wrestling but he's also foreign orange shorter eight inches of reach and hasn't fought in almost two years in so you know when you lose that badly to a guy like rick len who kind of went by the wayside as a shot fighter at the time <hes> Choi is a relentless relentless slugger and he has all the cardio in the world in this is just a really bad style matchup forget like Gavin Talker so definitely would lean with Choi on the prelims there at a pretty nice price aren't no. I know that there is one big favourite you like on the prelims card. Maybe looking at this one. I don't know if you're thinking about a straight bet or one of those moneyline parlays on the big favorites that we talked about but who said heavy favorite that you do like that you probably will find a way to play yeah either in the under market inside the distance. I mean you look look at a guy like him to do at nine one <hes> you know top prospect coming into the U._F._C. in two thousand eighteen comes in <hes> forty second loss to <hes> Danny Henry <hes> in <hes> got a couple decisions over guys that are you know Austin Kyle Bosniak Decision Machine <hes> so dewa does kind of underwhelmed a little bit coming in as this vicious NOCCO power all six of his wins via knockout and they are life-changing knockouts <hes> you know so I think this price is actually the most warranted on the card foreshore. <hes> you know the D.. Water should go out there like this is obvious what the U._F._C. wants here. They want to do to get his knockout to put some is on him. Show that finishing power our <HES> and he should be able to get get U._F._c. what they want out of him this one this don't I think it's GonNa start a little slow little back and forth in the first round and eventually Doi- who is going to end this one via knockout. The Chin on hurry is just nothing to write home about that is for sure I know you know he came in at what six zero four him and no hasn't really worked for him and his inside the U._F._C. as well so N._B._A.. Again being finished along the way as well so this is just a really bad style matchup for hurry any great one for Doi- due to kind of a showcase let the kid is all about because he has no dare I say gone type levels of power NOCCO potential. Well hopefully we'll. I'll have a lot more to talk about at least through a pig standpoint next week for the U._F._C. on E._S._p._N.. Card you check out Christians right up over at Bang the book dotcom Four you have see to forty here of course you can always follow Christian on twitter at Christian Pena P. I. N. A. And Check Out sports sports gambling podcast as well Chris always a pleasure. Thank you so much for joining me. We'll talk again next week right man. I promise guys we have much greater fights coming up than this card but the top two are therefore you're and there is some some exciting fights off this. This card isn't cup of tea. I promise next week we'll be Christian peanuts of the sports game podcast at Christian Pena on twitter coming up on Monday edition of the batter's box and it'll be betting podcast. We'll be on all five days again next week on Bang the book radio. I'll let you know what that schedule looks like on Monday. Now do it for me your shorts for listening. Everybody and we'll talk to you again. After the weekend at Kohl's friends and family sale the back to school savings add up with an extra twenty percent off Sieben Stevens sketches for the family girls stretch dragging twelve dollars ams save on an instant pop and luggage plus. Take an extra ten percent off home plus. Everyone gets cold cash plus Free Amazon returns. 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Frankie Edgar Holloway Frankie Edgar Max Holloway Holloway Christian Pena Frankie Eiger football Frankie Bet GSI McGregor Edmonton China Vegas rape Sarokin Gavin Tucker testosterone Chris Cyborg Choi Jordan
The Cheerleader Mom Pt. 2: Wanda Holloway

Female Criminals

46:34 min | 1 year ago

The Cheerleader Mom Pt. 2: Wanda Holloway

"In the air inside the auditorium of Alice Johnson junior high belt electric at least it did the thirty five year. Old Wanda Holloway. Though the gymnasium looked a little rundown Wanda fell to kind of magic in the air. She was perched high in the bleachers excited. That this moment had finally come on the gym floor below cheerleaders in bright uniforms ruffled. Their pompoms poms. They giggled with each other whispering secrets behind their tinsel accessories. Wanda smiled thinking about what her own daughter. Shanna might look like in one of those uniforms. That was the goal. Shanna a cheerleader. At long last and today after another arduous year of training the tryouts were finally here as she watched. Shanna emerged from the locker room. She gave her excited wave. The teen waved back looking a little nervous. Wanda was nervous too. She shook assign emblazoned with Shannon's name a tingle of anxiety in her stomach. And then amber heath one of the teenage cheerleader hopefuls took her place in line alongside. Shanna in response Wanda purse. Her lips agitated in a lot of ways amber was like Shanna young smart and pretty but amber was already on the squad. She had the advantage and with a limited number of open spaces. Success was far from guaranteed. If SHANNA didn't make the team this year Wanda didn't know what she do. Picture a murderer a gangster. A thief did you picture a woman. We didn't think so- society associates men with dangerous crimes. But what happens when the perpetrator is female every Wednesday? We examined the psychology motivations and cities of female criminals. Hi I'm Vanessa Richardson. And you're listening to female criminals apar- cast original. You can find episodes of female criminals and all other podcast originals for free on spotify or wherever you listen to podcasts to stream. Female criminals for free on spotify. Just open the APP and type female criminals in the search bar at par cast. Were grateful for you our listeners. You allow us to do what we love. Let us know how we're doing reach out on facebook and Instagram at par cast and twitter at podcast network? Today we're wrapping up our mother's Day special on Wanda Holloway. Last week we learned about Wanda's early life in Channel View Texas and her growing obsession with securing her daughter a place on the school cheerleading team. Today were delving into the shocking murder-for-hire plot that took Texas and the world of cheerleading by storm as nineteen eighty nine melted into nineteen ninety channel view. The end of the school year suddenly felt a lot closer for many students. The countdown to summer began as they sat in those first January classes but to thirty five year. Old Wanda Holloway. The New Year. Meant something else entirely. It had brought her dream that much. Closer one does daughter. Shanna was halfway through the seventh grade. And despite their best efforts the twelve year old was not on the school's cheerleading squad. This reality belied the effort. The mother daughter duo had put towards that singular goal. Preparations had begun long before the initial sixth grade tryouts in Texas. Cheerleading was taken seriously and want to expected. The competition to be steph hours had been sacrificed for gymnastics and dance classes. Even more extreme whenever Wanda felt that Shannon needed to train harder she completed her daughter's homework for her while. Shanna practiced indeed so great. Was the obsession that a set of matching cheerleader uniforms was among the pairs several coordinated outfits this last factor not only symbolized their fixation with cheerleading in embodied the depth of their bond. Wanda and Shanna were exceedingly close by their own admissions. They were each other's best friend. Before we continue with Wanda's psychology please note. I'm not a psychologist or psychiatrist. But I have done a lot of research for the show according to Dr Kit Harrison. Who was familiar with the case? Wanda and Shanna shared a symbiotic relationship in nature. Symbiosis typically indicates that to animals organisms rely on each other for survival in humans however the term can apply to a number of relationships parent and child romantic partners and even close siblings while symbiosis in the wild is a necessity for survival in people it can be a toxic emotional crutch according to clinical social worker and therapist. Katie Hauser. A toxic symbiotic relationship can remove the autonomy from one or both participants. It also reduces the opportunity for internal validation and independence. The child in a symbiotic relationship. Learns EARLY ON THAT. In order to please their parents they have to succeed. Although this success can take many forms in the Holloway family it seemed to have centered around the determination to make Shanna a cheerleader. At all costs. Shanna herself later admitted that she quickly realized cheerleading. Just wasn't that fun for her however even if she wanted to stop. Her mother was her whole world. She wanted more than anything to please her so she kept up with her training. Ultimately it all came to nothing at the tryouts in March of nineteen eighty nine. Shanna had performed well but she came third in the popular vote carried out amongst the student body one of the slots she'd coveted had gone to amber heath a girl. Shannon new from her former school aside from the fact that amber was on the cheerleading team. And Shanna wasn't the two girls were a lot of like just like their mothers. Both girls were known to take pride. In their appearance. Their hair was always perfectly quaffed their outfits were impeccable and they carried themselves with police. Both were also on the school's Honor Roll and held spots on their class. Governments like Shanna ambers. Mother Verna was excited for her daughter to join the cheerleading squad at Alice. Johnson Middle School. The women in her family had long displayed a knack for athletic performance. Ambers grandmother had competed in barrel racing at Rodeos as a young woman when she married she opened up. A studio offering classes in dance baton-twirling gymnastics and piano. Verna herself was a twirling champion in Highschool Verna raised her daughter with the same insistence on perfection. And as a result amber heath had been winning twirling competitions since she was a toddler like Wanda Verna had also insisted that amber train hard to win a place on the cheerleading team. The previous year. Leaving nothing to chance. The heath's also handed out heath candy bars during the voting phase not only was the candy. A great incentive for teens it encouraged name recognition for amber. When the Nineteen Ninety tryouts for the squad came up again thirty five year. Old Wanda took inspiration from her rivals tactics. She wanted to find a way to help her daughter drum up more votes and if she had to buy that popularity then that was exactly what she would do. However following the nineteen eighty nine tryouts. The school had decided to instigate new rules. The audition would work in the same way each girl performing in front of the school and a panel of college cheerleaders. Then six finalists would campaign for the open slots and the student body would vote. The nineteen ninety voting phase is worth. Things were being paired back. The School Board decided to limit the number of posters. Each hopeful girl could hang in the hallways and crucially day forbade the tactic of handing out candy bars. But one does saw nothing in the rules about the distribution of other favors or trinkets to help sway opinion in her daughter's favor. Doing so had apparently been something of a tradition. And perhaps Wanda felt that not participating had negatively impacted. Shannon's chances so want to turn to Shannon's father her ex husband Tony Harper. Tony suggested handing out pencils and rulers with Shannon's name engraved on them. It was a suggestion borne out of practicality as we discussed last week channel view was a town dominated by industry and the median. Income was not hi. Tony felt that kids would like a new addition to their stationery supply halfway through the year. Wanda loved the idea so she split the two hundred dollar cost with Tony for several hundred pencils and rulers emblazoned with the words. Vote for Shanna now. With the day of the tryouts looming. Everything was ready for Wanda and her daughter to triumph at last once again. One day and the mothers of the other girls watched the tryouts from the bleachers. With the rest of the school when the judges announced the finalists. Shanna was yet again amongst their number. Her years of hard work had shown dividends now for the final hurdle but before voting began. The parents of the finalists were asked to attend meeting to go over the rules of the election. One to ask about handing out Shannon's pencils and rulers. They weren't candy after all but she was told that any gifts were forbidden. Wanda was frustrated by the news. She'd already forked out. Money for the favors and now they would go to waste but ever ready to roll with the punches. She moved onto a new plan together. She and Shannon made flyers in the shape of cheerleading megaphones sparkling with glitter and bearing Shannon name they made for eye-catching handouts during the vote but during the crafts spree WANNA realized she hadn't bought enough wouldn't paint stirs to act as handles for the megaphones she used some of the customized rulers as handles instead and so the next morning. Shanna arrived at school with a couple dozen brightly colored megaphone flyers fifteen of them fitted with Shanna branded rulers as handles at some stage during the school day the engraved rulers were spotted. A meeting was called between the school's vice principal and Assistant Superintendent for Channel View and the school's cheerleading coach. The coach had spoken to mothers of the other girls competing for the spots and with everything taken into consideration. A decision was made. Wanda and Shanna were summoned to the schools office. The next morning in a private meeting with the principal told that they had breached the clearly delineated rules as a result. Shanna was disqualified from the competition. Wanda was distraught. So while Shannon took herself back to class to finish out the day her thirty five year. Old Mother Sat in the principal's office and sobbed as she left. Wanda reportedly took blame for the rulers. It was she and her husband who had made the mistake. Not Shanna but it was no use. The decision was final for the second year in a row wanders dream of having a cheerleader daughter had been denied to better understand. Wanda's intense drive to get shown on the cheerleading squad. It's helpful to know more about the role of high school. Sports in small Texas towns. In his seminal book Friday Night Lights H. G. Kissinger pointed out that football players and cheerleaders were the celebrities of their towns however wonder had never enjoyed the esteemed lights of Friday night. Her dream of becoming a cheerleader was extinguished before it even began in pushing Shanna so hard perhaps Wanda was trying to ensure the same. Fate never befell her. Perhaps she was trying to make her daughter's high school years as remarkable as possible communication. Professor Brad Bushman suggests that pushing a child towards one's own missed opportunities can help alleviate feelings of regret whatever glory their child may achieve is then reflected back upon the parents helping them finally feel a sense of accomplishment in a simplified way of stating things. It's parents living vicariously through their children. Only now Wanda had tripped Shanna up halfway through the race. She'd been so busy trying to help that. She hadn't stopped to consider that she might be doing harm to her daughter's chances. Wanda initially blamed herself for Shannon's disqualification. But she soon found an alternative culprit verna heath in Wanda's mind burner had been arrival. Since the previous year's tryouts. This negative view of the other woman was exacerbated. By the fact that Wanda New Verna had been in the meeting with the other moms before long. Wanda was telling anyone who would listen. That verna heath had been conspiring against her. According to a friend. Wanda was sure that the other hopeful cheerleader MOMS had hatched a plot to actively keep Shanna off the squad. As the days rolled by Wanda's fixation on the injustice of it all only grew not only. Was she angry with Verna for rigging the competition against Shanna? She was furious with amber for stealing the spot. That should have been her daughters as far as anyone can tell. Neither of these things actually happened. Verna was simply a mother who like Wanda wanted to see. Her daughter succeed neither amber nor her mother had set out to keep Shanna off the squad. But by this stage Wanda's frustration had blurred her vision. She was no longer seeing things clearly for all of her mother's increasingly paranoid thoughts. Shanna herself had come to a sobering realization. The twelve year old didn't much care to be a cheerleader. After all or so. She reportedly confessed to her father. It seems that the symbiosis between mother and daughter was beginning to weaken at least on Shanez according to a two thousand thirteen study out of the Netherlands. The more closely apparent aligns their own personality and being with that of their child to stronger. They'll push to achieve their dreams through that child but his children in symbiotic relationships grow older. They can begin to shake off the shackles and seek out their own autonomy. Shanna it seems was realizing that the dream of being a cheerleader wasn't hers. It belonged to Wanda and it was a dream. Her mother intended to see come true the following year. Come hell or high water. By the time Shanna had entered the eighth grade. Her mother had made up her mind. It's not clear. Exactly who gave Wanda the idea? But in September of Nineteen Ninety. She took steps to enact her new plan she was going to have amber and Verna heath killed up next. Wanda Holloway's deadly new plan takes shape. Hi Everyone I've really been enjoying the new inspirational podcast series daily quote. It helps me get my day started. And that's why I'm sharing today's episode with you. It's an uplifting quote from former president. Barack Obama. Please be sure to follow daily quote free on spotify or wherever you get your podcasts. Good morning everyone. Welcome to daily quote a podcast original. I'm Kate Leonard. Today's quote is from forty fourth President Barack Obama given just after his last speech as the president of the United States. He tweeted my last ask is the same as my first. I'm asking you to believe not in my ability to create change but in yours next. We'll explore how this quote can inspire your day now. Let's explore these words. From president. Barack Obama President Obama ran on a campaign predicated on a promise that his administration would usher in hope and change after delivering on several of these promises. During his eight-year term President Obama then asked Americans to believe in a change borne out of their own efforts. This is a much harder request because it tells us that unless we put in the work unless we show up our lives will remain the same. It's very easy to look for someone else to wave a magic wand that will remedy all of our problems. It's a seductive proposition. But the truth is if we're unsatisfied with the laws of the country. We live in or are jobs or relationships. We have to do the work to make it better. Ultimately President Obama's last ask is an empowering one it says our lives are in our hands we can bring about a better result in our endeavors. So long as we are willing to put in the effort to usher in change. Daily quote is a daily podcast. Follow on spotify to make it part of your morning routine and let it inform the rest of your day. Daily quote is a podcast original. If you're listening on spotify you can share this quote with your friends on social by tapping the three dots in the top. Right corner of the episode page scrolling down to share and selecting your sharing option of choice find new paths to positively three hundred sixty five days a year. Follow daily quote free on spotify. Or wherever. You get your podcasts now. Back to the story in the fall of nineteen ninety thirty six year old. Wanda Holloway was on a mission after spending years preparing her daughter to be a cheerleader. Her dream had been stolen from her twice now with seemingly little else on her mind. She decided to take drastic action. Several people close to Wanda recalled mentioning ingest that she should have amber heath or her mother. Verna killed Wanda's endless tirades against her and her daughters perceived rivals had driven family and friends alike to the point of sarcasm but joke or not Wanda had taken the suggestions to heart. Along with the sarcastic quips. Wanda also received sound advice from several of her friends. To let the whole thing. Go Tony Harper Shannon's father was especially sick of the whole episode. He blamed Wanda's use of the band. Rulers during the election for Shannon's disqualification. This was her doing and hers alone. Tony's parents Shannon's grandparents suggested that the thirteen year old was capable of making next year squad on her own. So long as Wanda just let her try out without scheming but Wando wasn't content to leave her dreams in the hands of others. She tried training her daughter harder as Verna had done she had tried buying votes as Verna had done neither had produced results. So in Wanda's mind there was only one option left Verna and amber heath had to die the drastic leap in logic. This took is difficult to understand but when looking closely at what we know about Wanda. It's possible to draw some conclusions about what might have been going on for years. Wanda had poured countless hours into fulfilling her own scuppered dream. Now having been denied it yet again she may have experienced. The sunk cost effect. This peculiar quirk of human nature suggests that when an individual has spent a lot of time energy or money on something. They're more likely to continue pursuing it. This fairly straightforward concept evolves into the sunk cost fallacy when a person allows this logic to take them past the usual point of no return despite a detrimental return on investment. The sunk cost fallacy can dictate that someone plows ahead. Heedless of the Dangers Wanda Holloway had spent so much time and effort chasing down this dream now. Despite her best efforts she had no dividends to show in her mind. The only thing she could do was doubled down. She would eliminate her biggest competition. She just needed to figure out how one knew that she didn't want to carry out the deed herself but she definitely wanted amber and Verna heath out of her way. This churchgoing middle-class mom had very few leads when it came to criminal connections but she did no one person. Wanda's first husband. Tony Harper had a younger brother. Terry from an early age Terry had been mixed up in the seedier side of channel view. The thirty five year old had used drugs and alcohol since his teens by his mid thirties he had six convictions and half a dozen marriages under his belt. Thirty six year. Old Wanda hadn't seen Terry in years. But she knew that he was her best chance for getting the result she wanted. It was a fall afternoon in nineteen ninety when Wanda I reached out to her ex brother-in-law. She pulled into the trailer park on days. Avala road and idled her car out front of Terry's double wide. She honked her horn a couple of times and waited eventually. Terry emerged from her car. Wanda called out that. She wanted to speak with him but not here. Bewildered but intrigued. Terry agreed to meet her at a nearby convenience store minutes later Terry parked next to Wanda's jeep in the parking lot of bose super stop and climbed into her passenger seat. They must have looked in odd pair. The perfectly presented thirty six year old suburban woman of means alongside the somewhat portly laborer in opening Wanda warned. Terry this meeting never happened then. Barely pausing for breath. She asked him how much he loved his niece. Shanna when he confirmed that he did indeed love her. Wanda told him all about the problem with the heat's when she was satisfied that he was up to date. She got to the point at last. She needed his help. Getting rid of amber and Verna Terry was surprised and took a few moments to process what he just heard when he gathered his thoughts. He told Wanda that he'd been trying to clean up his act recently. He was currently on probation for drunk driving so he hoped she would understand when he told her he wanted nothing to do with her scheme even if he did he reasoned he didn't know anyone who would do such a thing especially not to thirteen year old girl but Wanda pressed him with such desperation. Verna and amber heath were ruining her life. They were ruining Shannon's life. Something had to be done like many other. People Terry responded with sarcasm he quipped that one ought to hire a member of the Colombian drug cartel to assassinate the heat's completely missing. The humor. Want to ask how much something like that might set her back. Incredulous that she'd taken him seriously. Terry Hazard a guess stating that. The hit would cost between five and twenty thousand dollars. The figure came as a shock to the mother of two by that stage. Terry was more than ready to be done with the awkward conversation to placate Wanda. He promised he'd look into it for her as he pulled out of the parking lot. He sincerely hoped that was the last heat here about amber and Verna heath but just a couple of months later at Harper Family Christmas gathering. Shanna approached her uncle. She handed him a slip of paper and quietly told him that her mother wanted him to call her on that number later. That night Terry told his wife about his conversation with Wanda Mike. Terry marlow worried about Wanda's determination to follow through on her plan. Even if Terry didn't help her the fact that she'd come to him at all had them both paranoid. What if she tried to frame him he didn't know what to do but he felt sure that Shannon's father should know about Wanda's murderous plot a few days later Terry called Tony and filled them in and the brothers contacted the Harris County Sheriff's department that same day Terry gave a sworn statement to detectives about Wanda Holloway's intentions within to experienced cops had been assigned to the case? Detective George Helton and Sergeant Flint. Blackwell were part of a task. Force that responded to gangland crime activity as a result. Murder-for-hire was under their purview. Detective Helton had on several occasions actually posed as a hitman during sting operations so when Terry Harper story came across his desk he was intrigued. The officers met with Terry and early January of nineteen ninety one and recorded a phone call. He placed to Wanda though neither made direct references to having Verna and amber heath killed enough was said to keep the investigation going in the aftermath. Helton and blackwell began to set up a sting in contract murder cases. A police officer such as detective. Helton might pose as a hitman and meet with the would be employer next. They would record a conversation about what exactly the person wanted to happen. And take payment for the deed then with the evidence secured and arrest could be made. But in this case things were little trickier a teenage girl's life had been threatened which made the investigators more cautious about rolling the dice. In addition it had been so many months since Wanda had first approach Terry. It was possible she'd found someone else to help her. In the meantime because of this it was decided that Terry Harper was the best person to carry out the sting on the evening of January Fourteenth Nineteen Ninety one. He met Wanda and the parking lot of a fast food restaurant. He once again climbed into her jeep for maximum privacy. What Wanda didn't know was that Terry was wearing a wire as Wanda expressed her fears that. Shanna would miss out on being a cheerleader for her entire high school career. Detective Helton and Sergeant Blackwell were listening in from their own car. They heard Terry and Wanda discuss her options. She was positive that Verna was cozying up with the administration of the High School. It was in fact something want to herself had already been trying to do for the past several months. She'd been volunteering at the school for three days a week. She assisted the school's band director and had become friendly with the PE teacher. However while Wanda had the p. e. teacher on her side. She wasn't sure about the cheerleading coach. When Terry could finally get a word in edgewise? He told Wanda that he'd found someone to do the job. He then pressed her for exactly what she wanted. The hitman to do Wanda told him she didn't much care. She just wanted them. Gone following instructions from the police. Terry then turned the conversation to money. He told Wanda that his contract would kill. Verna for two thousand five hundred dollars amber as a child was more expensive. Her murder would set wanda back. Five Thousand Dollars WanNA laughed at the thought of how much it would cost to have. Her imagined rival killed while Wanda considered the large sum of money. She spelled out the names of amber and Verna for Terry to write down. She then gave him a description of Vernice car along with the registration number for good measure. She also had him right down the heat's address as the investigators had asked. Terry did his best to convince Wanda that only needed to die. Not Amber in the end. She reason that Vernon's death would likely shake amber so badly that she wouldn't be able to try out for the squad though. She clearly relished the thought of taking amber out of the picture completely. She told Terry she makes me sick. It was settled. Wanda would pay. Terry's contact two thousand five hundred dollars to kill Verna. Heath arrangements were made for another meeting. So WanNA could give Terry a down payment half the money upfront. If she followed through with that plan the police would have everything they needed to arrest her. All they had to do now was wait. Coming up. Wanda Holloway Scheme makes headlines around the world now back to the story in January of Nineteen Ninety one thirty six year old. Wanda Holloway was being watched. Her Ex brother-in-law Terry Harper had read her out to police after she enlisted his help to look for a hit man to take out her rival. Verna heath. After Terry secretly recorded their meeting discussing the murder for hire. He rushed home to call his brother. Wanda's ex husband Tony. According to Terry's then wife Marla. He gushed to Tony about what had happened. Wanda would surely lose custody of the children. Tony would have Shane and Shanna. All to himself. Terry just had to help. Seal the deal and collect payment from Wanda asks for Wanda. She was ready to put down money for the murder. Ready to erase Verna from her life to that end. Another meeting was set for Monday January. Twenty eight it had been almost a year since Wanda's daughter had missed out on making the cheerleading squad. With the next round tryouts just a few months away. Wanda knew she had to act quickly. But there was one small hiccup money. Despite her husband's wealth Wanda had found it. Difficult to come up with the one thousand two hundred. Fifty dollar deposit. She needed for the hit instead. She told Terry she had a pair of diamond earrings worth at least that much. He suggested that she pawn them for cash but the presentable mother founded it distasteful to Hawk jewelry to pay for the gruesome murder. She planned so terry suggested that his contract would take the jewels in lieu of cash. Once the job was done however the hitman expected her to pay him in full he would of course return the diamonds once. She paid him. This fictional killer was a man of integrity at around seven PM on January. Twenty Eighth Wanda dropped her daughter Shanna off at their church from there. She drove directly to meet Terry in a parking lot as he had before. Terry gun out of his truck and into Wanda's jeep. Once again he was set up with a recording device to tape the conversation almost immediately as if nervous to get things over with Wanda pulled out a small plastic bag inside gleamed a pair of diamond earrings. She told him perhaps feeling proud of her. Hard one jewels that each stone was at least point seventy five carats after. Terry pretended to examine the diamonds. He pocketed them. He then warned Wanda that if she didn't pay up after the job the killer would come after her. She swore that in one month's time she would have the full two thousand five hundred dollars. Then Terry confirmed was. She sure she wanted to go through with the plan. But by now Wanda Holloway was committed. In fact she mused. She wished she had the full seven thousand five hundred dollars that way she could have both. Verna and amber done away with at once. All her problems would be solved but if she couldn't make that happen at least she could do. This much. Wando wanted the murder to take place soon before. Verna could help amber make flyers and posters for the upcoming nineteen ninety one election though the middle school had banned favors and trinkets. The high school had not Wanda was determined to take out the competition before she could buy the vote out from under Shanna. What Wanda didn't know was that her conversation was being listened to by handing over her diamonds. She had sealed her own bait just two days later on January thirtieth nineteen ninety. One Wanda was arrested. Detective Helton and Sergeant Blackwell approached the well dressed mother as she arrived home from the grocery store at that moment her chief concern was checking on Shanna before she was taken away. The officers allowed her to go inside so she could call her mother to come look after Shanna once inside her house. Wanda calmly told her daughter. What had happened? Then she changed into a more incarceration appropriate outfit removed her jewelry and went quietly. Wanda Holloway spent a full night behind bars before her husband CD was able to bail her out when she left the next morning. Wanda reportedly thanked the staff for their kind treatment. She was a good Christian after all and had been raised to observe proper civilities. But Miss Manners couldn't save Wanda from what came next on the evening of January. Thirty first word of her arrest and of the murder plot broke on the local news as channel. V residents from the revelation. Press from around. The world turned their focus to this small industrial corner of Texas. The story was to juicy to ignore while verna heath was left to wonder how Wanda could have come to her. Desperate dark decision the media par stover every tidbit. They could like Wanda now known as the POM POM MOM. They were out for blood. Work News crews camped out in the streets outside the Holloway and heath homes desperate for an interview with either of the women reporters prowled the school boundaries. Offering students fifty dollars to buy their copy of the yearbook in a time before. Social Media. It was the only way they could get their hands on photographs of the two girls. But while tabloids and respected journalists alike followed the broad strokes of the story with Rabid Fascination. They missed what was going on behind the scenes as she awaited trial. Thirty-six-year-old Wanda found herself in more legal proceedings. Justice Terry predicted. Tony had decided to seek sole custody of Shane and Shanna. One does refusal to garner counselors for the two teens showed him that she was not fit to make decisions concerning their health. Shane was legally old enough to decide. Which parent he spent most of his time with he'd already opted to see his father more than his mother. Probably because of the latter's demonstrated favouring. Shanna even still. He took part in the custody dispute. Dr Kit Harrison who performed a court order evaluation of both. Shanna and Shane diagnosed the symbiotic relationship between the mother and her children. Though Tony hoped to win sole custody Dr Harrison felt it best that neither child be deprived of access to Wanda the bond between mother and child. Especially in Shannon's case was simply too important as a result of these findings. Joint Custody was awarded. Tony could regularly take the children to a therapist but simultaneously. Wando wouldn't lose access to her kids. The one thing. Tony wouldn't budge. On was his desire for Shanna to change schools. He felt sure that his thirteen year old daughter would be made a pariah. Despite his wishes the eighth grader was determined to stay put. According to her friends she simply avoided any kind of contact with amber though she had nothing to do with the plot against ambers mother she clearly felt embarrassed about the messy affair according to Shanna herself inside the Holloway residents. It was as if the whole thing had never happened. The family didn't discuss the plot the trial or the cheerleading tryouts. Cheerleading was for the first time in years a non event for the family with fresh perspective. Shanna opted not to try out for cheerleading. In March of Nineteen ninety-one amber heath however did try out. She won her spot for the third year in a row. Meanwhile wonder had finally achieved a version of the popularity. She'd seemed to want for her daughter all along. Everyone in town new who she was and they definitely associated her with cheerleading. But it was all a topsy turvy version of the way things were supposed to have gone and they weren't about to get any better at her trial. Wanda's defense team argued that the whole scheme had been cooked up by Terry and Tony Harper as a way to steal her children. They tried to convince the jury that want is remarks about doing away with amber and Verna heath were nothing more than jokes. However when presented with the recordings the jurors were disinclined to believe Wanda's version of events as a result in September of nineteen ninety. One the jury took two and a half hours to find Wanda Holloway guilty of solicitation of capital murder. She was sentenced to fifteen years in prison. However the sentence was overturned months later due to an error in jury selection one of the original jurors had been on probation for a drug charge at the time of trial this made them ineligible to serve on a causing the sentence to be thrown out. It wouldn't be until nineteen ninety. Six that illegal resolution was finally reached. Wanda struck a deal with prosecutors. Showed plead no contest to the charges in exchange for a ten year probation sentence. This meant that for soliciting the murder of Verna Heath Wanda only spent six months behind bars before being released in nineteen ninety seven by the time she was released. Life in Channel View had returned to its steady scandal-free free rhythms in the years. Since Wanda Holloway has spoken very little about the events in addition she managed to maintain a good relationship with Shanna though. The two are nowhere near as close as they used to be as for Verna Heath. She decried the effect the plot had on the cheerleading community. It was a shame. She felt that all cheerleader. Moms were now painted as crazed women who would kill for their daughters. She said the case had nothing to do with cheerleading. It was about competition and perhaps it was also about channel view a small canalside town where football was king thus being a cheerleader method. You a queen. Perhaps in this town that reward seemed like something worth killing for. Thanks again for tuning into female criminals. We'll be back next week with a new episode for more information on Wanda Holloway. Among the many sources we used we found. Mother love deadly love by an McDonald mayor and the cheerleader murder. Plot by MIMI swartz extremely helpful to our research. You can find all episodes of female criminals and all other podcast originals for free on spotify. That only spotify already have all of your favorite music but now spotify is making it easy for you to enjoy all of your favorite podcast originals like female criminals for free from your phone desktop or smart speaker to stream female criminals on spotify. Just open the APP and type female criminals in the search bar and don't forget to follow us on facebook and Instagram. At podcast and twitter at podcast network. We'll see you next time. Female Criminals was created by Max Cutler. And podcast studios original executive producers include Max and Ron Cutler designed by J Cohen with production assistance by Ron Shapiro Carly Madden and Aaron Larson. This episode of Female Criminals was written by Joel Callan with writing assistance by Abigail Cannon. I'm Vanessa Richardson Remember. You can find new paths to positively every day of the year followed daily quote free on spotify. Or wherever. You get your podcasts.

Verna Heath Wanda Wanda Holloway Wanda New Verna Shanna ambers amber heath Tony Harper Shannon verna heath Verna Terry Wanda purse Wanda I Tony spotify Wanda Mike murder Texas Nineteen Ninety Tony Harper Terry Harper Terry High School
Full Episode: Friday, November 22

Nightline

19:03 min | 1 year ago

Full Episode: Friday, November 22

"This is nightline tonight paradise lost. Natalie Holloway the high school senior who went and missing in Aruba her disappearance gripping the nation with the Superior Holloway. ABC News is bringing her mother back to the island. Now looking to find peace kice. My daughter is there. That's the last place that I know that she has been for nearly fifteen years. She has been fighting for answers. We always I felt like with every lead with every tip. It was always. We're about to get her. We take you inside a trip twists and turns but the big question will will a suspect ever be charged. Good evening everyone and thank you for joining us. I'm Paula Farris American Teen Natalie. Holloway disappeared in Aruba Nearly fifteen years ago that case case riveting the world when her mother has agreed to join. ABC News on a trip back to where her nightmare began. I don't think calf ever felt afraid to get back into a rubel because my daughter is there. That's the last place that I know that she has been. It's been close to fifteen years since Beth Holloway. First set foot on the island of Aruba looking for her daughter Natalie this is Bernales life ended but this was not a life Memorial Day in two thousand and five and my phone rang from a number that I didn't recognize that daughter Natalie is missing and that no one in her. Natalie was a beautiful girl involved in the church always had smiler face always so happy and energetic and outgoing. That called her hootie this lady. So hootie Hoo Holloway special guest today. pity who just in the prison and my place daily and her class were doing a senior trip to Aruba. She came to wake me up so I could drive her to a friend's house for ride to the airport and I helped her get her back out of the car and just kissed her. Goodbye said I love you have a great time. Never could have imagined and the last you got the call she knew Natalie was incredible snap instant something is terribly wrong. I had to get to Aruba rubel now. Her daughter Natalie has been missing for almost twenty four hours. Bad tries to retrace her daughter's last steps and she figures out that the guy she was last seen with urine bender. Slow Jorn had been spending a lot of time in the casino that was attached to Natalie's hotel at some point to look at surveillance tape because they knew it had been in the casino in for the first time was able to layer is on your on vendors. Learn mm-hmm once I saw him. I was like we've got it. Let's go town to go to the police now. We finally get to a ribbon. Police officials shoals to accompany us to the vendor sloat Home Deepak Calvo and you're on Vander slowed are standing out in the gravel driveway. Deepak Calpe was a friend of yours. He and his brother Sa- teach. Were actually seen leaving with your and Natalie that night in fact it was their car that they all left Dan. Iran says He. Okay I was with her a little dropped back at the Holiday Inn. That's all we will finally Neuron said I'll show you. I'll show you where I dropped her off. They says that she got out of the car and that she stumbled and that she hit her head and two security guards pelt natalie up and he says those are the last two people that he left Natalie with a Early Thursday morning police had the security tapes ready from the lobby entrance where Iran said that he dropped Natalie off and as we watch the tape and the night turned into daylight on the screen. Natalie never appeared the story that you're told them wasn't true Now okay this is yet they can go get these men and arrests Dan. It didn't happen when Beth felt like the police weren't getting anywhere. We'll stay here until I find you natalie up. She used the weapon that she had. which was the media? Holloway mother and stepfather made. No Jeff Roberts is just arrived in the island capital vantage. I know in my heart that that we are going to find. Natalie will you even let your mind entertain the possibility that you might not find her now there again. That's not an option. I also interviewed viewed Natalie's father day like I have to be out there looking. Please help bring her home. Thank point time where she kind of broke down. Had No more human strength left was a small beautiful. Little Chapel was sitting on the hillside overlooking the sea and I walked up to the cross and just fell to my knees. I was just crying and praying and just banking to to give her back. This is the only place on the island where I could calm to feel close to Natalie. This morning there is a potential break in this case aced. The three young men originally questioned by police have been arrested for guilty. You're on and his. Two friends are confronted with the fact that they allied that they had never dropped off Natalie at the hotel. A different story has emerged. The guys say that the cow brothers dropped Jorn and Natalie off off at the beach where they fold around and then you're on said he wanted to go home and he left her sleeping on the beach. Beth Holloway seems to realize realized that the only way she's going to keep the pressure on and maybe find her daughter is to just keep talking. That's Diane at night. Diane morning. Seven seven hits at night three hours later due to get up due to get up dude again. The Natalie Holloway story just dominated it was a sensation it. It was also one in a stream of stories that were grabbing headlines about missing attractive. Young Women Women who all oh happen to be white charter. Lee was last. Seen on April thirtieth twenty-seven-year-old Lacy Peterson one month into this investigation. There is intense can't scrutiny and urine and his two buddies are all in jail bought. There's a problem not enough evidence. Blood trail own own. And then a major blow to Beth Holloway. The buckeye and cityscape will be immediately released released them because they weren't charged arched. It is now that I asked the world to help me. Two suspects were released yesterday. who were involved in violent crime against my daughter help? Don't me by not allowing these two to get away with this crime. She did her press conference. And I think we got in trouble for calling the cowboys criminals or something but and so we are here to support the police whose authority has been questioned. People out there that are putting gugans downs. The entire dynamics of the island turned on me me all the people that were helping all the people that fell we were working together. A you could feel the shift you could feel the TAD turn. It was not okay. Okay for me to call the air. Citizens Criminals A major development. This morning in Hadley Holloway case. A judge in Aruba has releasing prime suspect Joran vanished from jail. They do have rules in Aruba about how long you can detain a suspect without a charge. They didn't feel that they were able to charge your Iran with anything you're on vendor. Son Is back in the Netherlands after being released from custody and what about Iran missed the media attention and missed being the focus focus even though the focus was not in a way most people would want. He decided to fly to interview. How do you think view been portrayed in office? I think I've been portrayed unfairly. I think it's about time that people will get to see the other side of the story. Are you ready leads. Tell the truth now. Did you kill Natalie Holloway. Did you harm Natalie Holloway. And why should you be believed after all all the line that you've done in the situation there's absolutely no reason to believe in nearly five years after Natalie's as disappeared reaches out. According to John Kelly urine sends an email using a pseudonym and when he contacts them out of the blue. It's it's mind blowing in the series of emails John Q.. Kelly says yawn has a proposal. If you give me two hundred and fifty thousand thousand dollars I will give you information on the whereabouts. Natalie Holloway Twenty five thousand from his acidic and cruel that sounds. What can we do with this? Your and provides a bank account number. And that's where they should wire the rest of the money so so I gave it a test to see if it was real. They get a call from a local regions bank on Birmingham Alabama. Up that Beth Holloway sent an international lawyer for one hundred dollars to your vendors Lewiston and that call from the bank officials in Birmingham gives John Q.. Kellyanne idea idea. Maybe we can get your on wire fraud charges on blackmail if we can ever get him to talk about this again. He's committee it. Federal crimes will have jurisdiction working with the FBI. They orchestrate sting operation. Get The ten thousand dollars. Cash from PAT to take. Don't not too rubel. FBI's hitting down to Aruba headed time to set up. The hotel was recorded. Wake up call. Holy come over and take a ten thousand bucks. It's safe put on the table in front of him. In the you know like Christmas wire that fifteen grand to the bank account of Iran's choice with all eyes on urine band or slow somehow how he manages to get away and he turns up in a place that no one would ever expect you. Beth Holloway. Thought she finally had urine benders slowed on those charges of wire fraud and extortion but then he slips away from Rupa to Peru its May twenty hand and a twenty one year old young Peruvian woman named Stephanie Floors. It doesn't come home one night. She goes missing the daughter of a former Peruvian presidential candidate and because she's a wealthy family. It's believed that Stephanie's Been Kidnapped napped Tuesday. Is Somebody tell us that. Stephanie went to the Casino on the security video. That is later released to the media. The family actually spots Stephanie. She takes a seat next to what it appears to be a young man to have some sort of a conversation so now they have what they believed to be an an actual image of this man. They said we've got a name for this kid. I went to the Internet and I pulled pulled done name in Google. She types in urine vendor slow and what comes up is actually shocking hundreds and hundreds hundreds of articles implicated in the disappearance of an American woman from the island of Aruba exactly five years earlier On Jews second two thousand ten Stephanie floors has been missing for three days. Her distraught family has been searching everywhere and then sadly she is found dead by an employee in the hotel tech going back and looking at the surveillance footage. It was discovered that Stephanie. And you're on had had several encounters in the casino and your on would have been. Well aware that Stephanie Three had won some fairly big jackpots. So there's reason to suspect that he wanted that cash and he targeted her. And that's why authorities think. Pete took her to his hotel room to rob an wants to get out aww pool. He knows the body of the hotel that the police are soon going to be bearing down on him while he's on the run. A toll booth operator actually recognizes vendors slows face and knows he's wanted for murder causing a tip and that gives police the opening they've been looking for to capture him. Aw Europeans captured in Chile and then quickly bring back to prove charged with Munger the same day urines rested. US Attorney in FBI have a joint news conference down in Birmingham this morning. My Office obtained arrest warrant for your on Bonder sleep based upon a complaint charging him with extortion and wire fraud. I want I want to stress at the outset that our case is not related in any way to the ongoing murder investigation incorrect off. Yeah the police in Peru now had a treasure trove of evidence at all of it linked urine directly directly to this crime. Wait they needed everything he how how he went to the room started. Hedinger took all the money and how he fled with her belongings. Nearly two years after Iran was arrested in Chile he appears in court neurons surprises everyone. He pleads guilty is uh-huh Memento sympa Simba as Don Johnson CEO. Iran has been lying so much which you would presume he was gonNA fight it and challenge it but he accepts a deal and gets twenty eight years in prison. Is it the justice I I wanted. No but it's the justice I'll take. Once his sentences completed in Peru he cannot be released he has to be transferred into US US custody and extradited to us. He'll be there till he comes to Alabama. I sounded good to me. Fourteen years later has become a lot less significant to me and how it really helped me captive and all of my hurt and pain out of east is a church that kind of served as a place of peace and hope I visited every morning and every night place to recenter and try to regroup and to refocus when I got to about the sixth cross it was gone. I knew that Natalie was is and he cared for her whatever ordeal she encountered that nine. You never going to get over the loss of losing your level and that's not gonNA happen but life does move on now we would want us to enjoy what life we have left. And that's nightline you can always please catch our full episodes on Hulu. Thanks for watching. I'm Paula Farris in New York. Have a great weekend and good night. Once upon a time we were introduced introduced to a world unlike any other Elsa. Promise me we do this together. Okay but now a new journey lies ahead ahead. ABC Ginger Zee. Come with me as we go inside frozen too with the animators composers and storytellers. Who are bringing need the next chapter in the frozen saga to life inside frozen to a behind the scenes look at the making of frozen to from A._B._C.? And Disney listen now for free on your favorite podcast APP.

Natalie Holloway Beth Holloway Aruba Iran FBI Superior Holloway wire fraud ABC News Paula Farris Stephanie Hadley Holloway Peru Jorn Birmingham Chile Holiday Inn Diane morning Lacy Peterson Deepak Calpe
The Pom Pom Mom (The Wanda Holloway Story)

Hall of Shame

41:38 min | 1 year ago

The Pom Pom Mom (The Wanda Holloway Story)

"Polyp shame is brought to you by Filo TV DO TV by the size of your cable. Bill Filo is your solution. It offers more than fifty channels of TV live and on demand for just twenty dollars a month. I have been watching so much. Hdtv I feel like the property. Brothers are now my actual blood brothers. And that is totally normal thing to say. Also Zoe day chanels dating. I knew that some of the networks so you can get our MTV VH1 bt a she TV like I mentioned AMC. There are so many so with. Bilo you save hundreds a month on TV. It's the most affordable way to watch at a time when everyone could use some entertainment in their life via was created by a bunch of passionate. Tv Fans. That wanted to make a better way to watch. There are no contracts its Cord Free Commitment Free Hassle Free and provides unparalleled customer service. One of the better features is its unlimited. Dvr which allows you to save all of your favorite shows. You can watch on your own schedule. It also allows for multiple profiles and multiple streams so everyone in the house can have their own safe shows up to three simultaneous streams. Never fight over. Who GETS TO PICK WHAT TO WATCH? Vilo is easy to use Sabrina. Sign up and you can watch by phone laptop tablet or TV with roku fire TV apple TV or android. Tv FILO IS TV for everyone. Sign up today at FILO DOT TV SLASH. Shame and you will get twenty five percent off your first two months. That's P. H. I L. O. Dot TV slash. Shame Rachel and I'm retina for bomb of shame parish. Nah Hey Rachel. Happy one week after Mother's Day Day. Thank you I know that was really confusing but I just want to say shouts to all the moms out there including my very good friend. My favorite podcasting partner. I'm fucked bomb. Thank you I believe your birthday. Also just past two dead happy birthday to my girl Russian. I got to tell you the reason why I'm saying all these things because obviously it has to do with the story. I'm telling tonight I don't know for sure yet. Like one hundred percent but I feel like I'm going to be an absolutely bat. Shit crazy mom just basically based off of the way. I treat my dog so I just wanted to ask you. What kind of mom are you? You got to be a little babies are you. Are you shell? Are you more of like a stage? Mom like what's your children like. Not a word often ascribed to myself. But I would say that my I'm much chiller mom. The hurson feel like motherhood chilled me out and made me patient. That said I'm like a mom and a parent and I'm not saying like I'm amazing. And just zen but like. I'm not really staged mommy. I say that although my my friend told me that sometimes when I show videos as actually my little one doing something I'm out so I guess maybe no go. That is the old. That's like amy poehler in mean girls totally except I don't ask her to things. It's just like a random video that I think is hilarious. Do you know what I mean. I am obsessed. I love that so much. Okay well guys. That was a nice little teaser. Russians eight onstage. Mom It's a nice little teaser for today's episode. I know I've said this about previous episodes but this one has been my favorite to research. I may have ordered a vhs through this journey that. I don't know what I'm going to do with it once it arrives because I do not have a vhs player is all makes sense. I can't wait so today's story is about a woman named Wanda Holloway Aka. The Poem Paul Mom. I just got real excited chills. Let's call her passionate a passionate woman who loved her daughter but loved cheerleading. Even more her dedication to the sport ran so deep that when it was her daughter's time to hold those pompoms she would stop at nothing to get her on the squad even if it meant dabbling in some shady as illegal Shit Wa King K. This podcast is usually about the NFL NBA Ronald Jazz. But I am here to tell you. No no no no no. If we find a good story that has to do with sports even just a little bit. We don't do it and cheerleading. Is a sport you sex's Mojo if you don't think so go to Texas say that out loud and then see what happens? Yeah. I'll never seen cheer watch five minutes of it. She's hard and that is where our story starts in Channel View Texas where the shoulder pads or big but the perm hair is even bigger hunting. Wanda Holloway. Our girl was born in one thousand nine hundred fifty seven and lived on the south side of the one ten which is the rougher stretch of channel view a fact that she was always ashamed by and she felt like people look down on her for like. Oh girl you're from Channel View. Yuck from south of the one ten. I don't think so I only associate with people east of the one ten much. She grew up in a working class very religious family with a very strict conservative father and in the small town of Channel View. Religion wasn't just about going to church every Sunday. You also worshipped in the Church of football if we've learned anything from retinas tree poisoning. Podcast last week. It's that football. Is Everything in these small southern towns. If you want popularity to be accepted you either play it. You love it or you cheer for it as a teenager. Wanda was your typical Christian Texas girl. She attended church every single Sunday. She played the piano was an overachiever in school. She even took business courses. Yes Wanda Wanda was like. I'm getting north of the one ten. Fuck someone say she thriving some would say she thriving but secretly all WanNa wanted to do was be a cheerleader when she finally got the courage to ask her dad for permission. Her Dad forbade her he saw. How teeny tiny. Those skirts were to sexualize an insult to their conservative religious beliefs. You're like Ho Wanda. He did not say but I definitely thought. I'm sorry are you channeling? Wanda's Dad Mr Holloway. You're going to look like a wall. Said Mr Holloway. Yes I like it. Perjury GMS were crushed retina. And so was she. She decided to bury her head back in her books. If she couldn't hold those pompoms she continued to pursue an education in business instead. What a hard left turn. My grandma guys are two choices. There's business or cheerleading. Those are the two choices. Pompoms or a calculator in nineteen seventy-five. Her dreams were derailed again when she turned eighteen and married Tony a childhood friend and he did not want her working at all which is super lame. He just wanted housewife plain. And simple just gross. Just quick question yeah. She like agency in that choice right like she wasn't arranged to Tony like she wasn't a range no she derailed her own plans She definitely agreed to go along with it. Tony no I'm in business school. I have a calculator Tony. Listen I'm either going to Cheer Ramona? Get my MBA. So he's like you're to do neither of those things. She's like cool. Yep GotTA gotTA gotTa go so her dream to pursue business ended and another dream down the toilet. Tony was by no means wealthy. Which is like then bitch. Let them work. Yeah that's the woman. Help double that income. Tony came from a family that was wealthier than one does. Bought a modest home right. There and channel view still south still side and Wanda was gifted her mother in law's car a Cadillac which she was disappointed in because she wanted a Lincoln. Towncar but like Oh. That's so funny because for like Indian immigrants when I was growing up it was like. Oh that Bitch Cadillac. She made shortly thereafter. She started dreaming about having babies in particular. She wanted a daughter. I one name shame. She was whatever four years later. One to finally got something. She wanted a baby girl. Someone that could fulfill her dreams dreams that were squashed before they even began. Wanda's a real Texas cheerleader. Oh man when Shayna turn three Wanda her husband. Tony decided to get a divorce. One got the house. Tony got the water skis. Seems like an even split that is the most Channel View Texas story. I've heard you can have the house but I'm taking them skis. Wander went on to have two different marriages both with older wealthier. Men which Wanda's GonNa get North like she always working her way up and it costs quite a stir in the small town. Everyone was gossiping about the marriage. That stuck was to a man named CD Holloway. He owned his own oilfield company. How and was plot twist twenty years her senior girl? Okay I would. She didn't care for them. Oilfields Rachel would do any. She didn't care 'cause now retina she got finally drive her dream car that towncar. She got though Lincoln she north of the one ten. That's all I'm tracking honestly. She must be she must be. She must be CD lives north of the one ten. Let's just slip that information in. And now she finally has moved into a home north of the one ten so she's got her towncar she's north of the one. Ten is just that cheerleading. Tim So everyone kind of thought one scandal. Oh so young mom. Mary's older wealthier gentlemen things were starting to get back on track for Wanda. She was content but things got even better when her daughter turned five because that meant her daughter was old enough to cheer or at least wear cheerleading uniform. I feel like five is a little young but at five years old. Wanda Purchase Shayna her very first cheerleading uniform. She needed to get those pom poms in hand asap important to note very important to note. Actually it was revealed later on in life. Shana was never really into cheerleading. Like just like went along with it because that's what her mother wanted. Hey we've all been there before. Okay I had a bowl cut for a good portion of my life because my mom it was so yeah so. Shane is not into it. She's five she gets a uniform. I mean she doesn't really have say at this point. Her daughter's lack of interest didn't stop Wanda. She took her stage. Mom role instantly fast forward a few years in one thousand nine hundred and nine. Shaka's entering junior high wanda decides to amp things up a bit and takes Shayna out of channel view Christian school and instead enrolls her into the public school system. Do you have any idea? Why is it because the football teams bigger? 'cause you can't cheerlead in Christian school or else you'll go to hell. I don't know if that's true. But it was so that she could be on. The Cheer Squad wanted transferred her daughter to Alice. Johnson junior high so that would be eligible to try out for the school's cheer team. So here's where I want to introduce you to another mother. Daughter duo named Verna an amber heath like Shayna amber is also transferring from channel Christian school to Alice. Johnson junior high. So she can also cheer Gotcha Verna Heath is also a cheerleading. Mom extraordinaire but even before. They found themselves at the same middle school going after the same dreams. These two families go way back Ambra. Shayna went to the same gymnastics school and learn from cheerleading teachers. Certified by the National Cheerleading Association. They took this really seriously. Jim was the real deal K. Shit was like super competitive. We've been talking about cheer thus far picture this okay. Parents sacrificed an enormous amount of time and money for their kids to attend this gym. Mothers including Vernon Wanda would sit in like viewing area and watch their daughters practice and they were there all the time they like lived at this Jim. This is where their friendship and kind of rivalry between the two pumps began. It was honestly like more intense sometimes in the viewing area than it was down on the floor. They were yeah. We'll shane is like I don't even give a shit about this. Why am I here or you really putting one hundred percent effort in and her mom's like in the viewing area like motherfucker motherfucker? They're like wincing their daughter. Flubbed a stunt hearing when they nailed their tumbling sequence cheering on cheerleaders which is hilarious it all while judging the shit out of everybody else. I'm sure but this is this is this is bless her heart culture and their disdain for each other was mass with friendliness and a smile. Oh Yeah love it. The most evil kind of rivalry love that. This is totally giving drop dead. Gorgeous Vibes. Okay Yeah despite this silent rivalry Wanda and Verna were for all intents and purposes pretty close vernice husband even said Vertebrae one does hair one time which is funny to me. Because they're complete grown women. It'd be like something you should maybe stop doing. At a certain point Wanda and VERNA had a lot in common and so did their daughters were also friends so it made sense that they you know connected in their communities. The moms were both known to go all out for those girls and their daughters were known to be all around superstars. They were honor. Roll students both pretty popular talented. Gotcha when Shane was elected Vice President. Ammar was actually elected president so literally growing up. They are neck and neck side-by-side also. Why do I feel like the teenage villain? Girl is always named amber always. It's always amber shouts tour. Ambers out there listening. You get about where I feel like there. The new Courtney's eighties. It was courtney or heather. I guess I'm sorry if you were like. Hey Rachel you want to meet my friends courtney and amber and I'd be like Oh not really. Yeah everybody's like CAIRN's getting a bad rap. Well let's talk about this. Court is in a real bad rap deserved probably parallel but Wanda always took it. One step further. She had zero chill like most stage. Moms do regionals. She chain and private cheerleading lessons. Okay listen to this. She made her go into this modeling program at the mall. Which can I just say? Those are absolutely awful. I had a very brief moment. A little brush with the modeling world. What I was young I went to a school name. Barbara Zahn as if sitting in a chair and Barbas. Well I went there and it was a terrible waste of money as if sitting in a chair is GonNa make more beautiful. Yeah so the line. Between Shane is dreams. And Wanda's were very warped. There was almost no distinction between one is life in her daughters. We have no idea what chain is interests are up until this point. WanNa probably has no clue as well I know. I'm just like filling the gaps in my head. This is horrifying. It's terrible. I really want to get to know. Shayna. I just want you to know. I'm spiraling about you connecting me to Wanda because of okay. So up until this point in the story Shayna Amber Verna Wanda. They're all super close vernon they're still breeding each other's hair. Okay so there's Friendship. There is competition there. So there's the background on the friendship. We can now get back to one thousand nine hundred nine where Wanda had just transferred her daughter to Alice. Johnson junior high for the sole purpose of having her join the cheer team. Gotcha what she didn't know was that Verna her. Bff Her gal had a similar plan for Braid Pal. Do what she didn't know is that Verna had a similar plan. Verna also intended to transfer her daughter and even though she didn't finish the paperwork in time she got special permission from the principal to let Amer- try out for cheer so Shaneco. Is there a way early? She's Dallas yourself in school. Verna may be heard that they were doing this thing. They're like Oh Shit. We're going to do the same thing. So now the two daughters and indirectly the two mothers were directly competing for limited spots on the cheer team. Gotcha to twist the knife. A little more for Wanda Verna. An amber arrived to this new school in style and with a plan immediately vying for a spot on the cheer squad back in the day. You campaigned for yourself. Which makes no sense okay. It's almost as if you're implying. The cheerleaders have no talent. You could just vote them it which is not true. They clearly don't know insane even before enrolling officially at the school amber was making the case for herself handing out flyers with her face on them with peppermint candies attached asking people to vote for her. So real quick. I want to see things from one. Point of view one nine Shayna. They've established themselves at this school. Verna an amber show up out of nowhere. Basically copied their entire plan. And then came in so strong peppermint candy like it didn't come up while she was breeding her hair incumbent. Like oh we're doing the same thing. That's a betrayal. That's hair braiding time kind of conversation like if year my hair. You're telling me you're also coming to the same school. Yeah would be hurt. Don't you agree? Yeah sure I get that so as Russia is doing right now about being stage. Mom Wanda started to spy RAW. There is nothing more thrilling and also terrifying about a stage mom wronged. I cannot wait to tell you what happens next but first a short break hall of shame is brought to you by Literati With Library. Schools in bookstores shutdown. How do you keep your kids learning and growing books from Literati? The number one book club for kids are the best place to start you guys. I got a box for my four year old and a box from my eleven year old so good so interesting a varied assortment of books and my kids are luxury right now for doing all the home schooling. 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Go TO BETTER HELP DOT COM SLASH. Shame that's better dot com slash? Shane talked with their fist online. Okay we're back so WANNA feels like Verna friend fellow Pum pum. Mom has double crossed her which has set one off. WanNa instantly turns her back on her old friend. And like the Karen. Or the Courtney or the amber that. She is demanded immediately to speak to the manager. She went to the school board at totally. She complained to them about the outsiders. Which is what she started calling. Verna an amber. She did like an anti campaign against amber calling other parents telling them not to vote for her cuts on the fact that like Amherst. Shane's like I just WANNA do my paintings. I'm just like creating this whole life for shame. Shane is a working on a sculpture. That's like hidden in her closet. This you can only work on from like three to four am. Shane is like secretly the next Michelangelo. But no one will ever know. She's like she's like solving the world's problems in her closet nice. She's like carrying cancer if Wanda hadn't pulled this shit. Shane would have the vaccine to renovate cents sadly for Wanda all of this. Anti campaigning was not enough amber. Amber she is made the cheer squad. Shayna did not. Oh I know. This left Wanda devastated. Meanwhile China's probably like celebrating behind her back. She's like I can get back to my my art and science and everything be a normal kid now later in an interview. One Administrator said if the school hadn't allowed amber to try out Shane and would have definitely made the team which would have fucked me up if I wanted. I'd be like put that on my tombstone. Also what's school administered doing? Just trying to stir the pot like what is the point of making that comment as I'm sure you can imagine wanted did not handle this. Well she had to sit there and boil over this for an entire year before she was able to try out again next year. Shayna gets another shot. Wanda is doing everything in her. God Damn Power. To make sure she beats out that little menace amber WANNA starts to campaign again handing out flyers calling parents. She even called her ex husband. Tony to help them out and then. The ruler incident happened Wanda and her ex. Tony handed out rulers pencils. That said vote for Shane on them. Like how embarrassing. I would be dying. Imagine like the person to who gets a pencil and they're like I'm on A. That's the convince her. What kind of life do you lead the pencil with? Somebody's like the presidential elections. Come Up. Is that what Joe Biden needs to do. Trump's names on pencil I wanna go with trump. Hey Alert Joe Biden's team start handing out pencil here we go. That's the ticket. Yeah so the rulers in the pencils get confiscated put principle because apparently that is against the election. Code But peppermint candy is absolutely fine. Which calling bullshit on Wanda was like screw that kept handing them out and that a parent council was called. Guess who's on the Council? GonNa Guess Verna Verna. Shayna gets disqualified fallout kicked down. Shane GA two years in a row. No Cheer Squad. Wanda is horrified. She begs the council to reconsider to no avail. Portion at this point does not care and even tells her dad's she doesn't want to be cheerleader. We know that we everyone knows Wanda's just ignoring her years. Three rolls around Nineteen ninety-one. Shayna like made a replica of the David in her class. WanNa Trust to play the slow game this time around and she waits for Shane to get another opportunity to try out. She infiltrates the system. This year she gets a job at the school. Doing some work for the band director eventually asking some staff on some tips on how she could give. Shane a leg up next year. I love picturing her in Lincoln Ring Room like coyly sipping her coffee like a little cold today. Anyway at this point was over it. She's GonNa need to think outside the box. Play a little dirty by a little dirty. I mean completely illegal. She goes for a drive one day and finds herself parked outside of her ex husband's brother's trailer. Terry Harper has always been like a little bit of a bad boy about town arrested for drinking and driving a few other misdemeanours. He was Wanda's last hope. Because I feel like the only criminal that she knew right. Gotcha unlucky for her. He had saved himself devoted himself to the Lord promising. No more cussin' DRINKING AND GOING TO CLUBS. He was no longer a bad boy. Wanted didn't get the notification that wasn't posted on facebook or anything so she knocks on his door anyways. She tells him she needs to but they can't do it there. They made it a convenience store called Bose. She gives him the pitch. I need you to kill amber. And her mother Verna rouser. Like what a left turn you go from handing out pencils so like fuck it. I'm just going to kill you know what I tried. Obviously he's a little shocked. He's I don't do that Shit. I don't know anybody that would do that. Shit you want me to murder a child. No one that doesn't push the subject and she leaves Terry. Didn't hear from WANNA for months also can I just say even if he hadn't found God the difference between being a bad boy murder like that. Chasm is having a couple of beers and driving home as a lot different than committing murder. Wow Wanda Terry didn't hear from one to for months until Christmas. Eve rolled around Shane celebrating that year at her father's house. So obviously al-Tairi was there too in the middle of opening presents. Shayna pulled her uncle. Zaid with a message from her mom. She handed him a number on a piece of paper and said my mom wants you to call her. Like my my own. Just can I go back to my painting. Can I just unwrapped my presence lease? So Terry Calls Wanda. The plan is back on. She meets to find someone to take out this hit and she needs to find them. A S Terry tries to reason with her. Why doesn't Shane a tryout? And if she doesn't make it she doesn't make it also. Shane a dozen WANNA be a cheerleader. Maybe just like a one does not having it. She tells him no. Poor Shayna is going to be two devastated and never try out again cuts Shayna. She's like I'm fine. Be Be outside bad freaked out by the seriousness of her request. Obviously Terry when his brother? Tony wanted sex husband and said hey man you maybe need to like come and get your girl and Tony told him to go to the police and so he did at first. He actually had a time convincing the police that this was real. I mean it does sound like kind of story so like honestly fair. Who would really believe that? A mom was that desperate to see her daughter. Cheer but I guess. Never underestimate the power and determination of unfulfilled Texas woman. Eventually he convinced the cops and they put a wire on him for when Wanda when inevitably call again and of course she did now working with the cops now. He agreed to help this time. Gotcha but said hey heads up. It's twenty five hundred dollars to kill Verna but it's five thousand to kill amber well in K. That's just like a little too expensive for Wanda who's apparently a cheap ass. When it comes to murdering people she malls it over at feels cheap for murdering feels. It should be like fifty thousand dollars those cheap for taking a human life. She thinks it over. She's thinking if I only killed Verna I could make my point and Amer would-be too distraught to want to cheer that year opening that spot for my daughter Shayna. I could save that money. Finally get that car radio. I've been meaning to install in Lincoln. Perfect idea so it was decided she agreed. That was the Best Plan. Interior would execute hit. I'm getting hot. Yeah this is isn't steamy. They planned today for the money. Drop off in Wanda agreed that day. She drove Shane Church. Which is whole Larry? Just a good Christian girl you know. I'm GonNa do something bad this afternoon so I better drop you off so you can at least talk to. Jesus Terry met her at a motel room where she handed him to one and a half carat diamond earrings as a down payment. She said I couldn't pull the trigger. But I can definitely do it this way. The cops had seen enough at that point and moved in. She was arrested the very next day. I want to imagine verners reaction when she found out like obviously the police probably went straight to her house and was like. Hey just FYI. I spy like running tumbling drills in the backyard until their daughter throws up just FYI. I someone was trying to kill you for a cheerleading. Spur a cheerleading spot. I imagine Verna would be like. She was interestingly enough. She was kind of like understanding. Wasn't this God has watched over me when someone wants something for their child and they don't achieve it it. It hurts a lot but nothing is important enough not this anyway. I mean Verna seems chill. Obviously the news went wild over this story. The channel via woman charged with hiring a contract murderer to kill the mother of a middle school cheerleader. At every hearing swarming people's homes Oprah had a crew. There everyone came out. I remember the story. Yes it was crazy you do. Yeah people were ambushing. Verna with hidden cameras in their clothes. It was a mess. The Girls Amarin. Shayna lost all privacy. Poor Shane if she wasn't already embarrassed and just like wanting to stick to her oil painting my God girl Sheena. She's like first of all. My Dad. Got Me watercolors instead of oil. So he got totally wrong so and then second of all. My mom tried to kill my friend. I don't even want to cheer people were even buying yearbooks signed by Amber Shayna somewhat for fifty bucks crazy Wanda later. That year was put on trial and sentenced to fifteen years for soliciting capital murder. Sure sure yeah right. But the ruling ended up getting overturned after a jury member was revealed to have been on probation for felony drug charges in her second trial. She pleaded no contest was sentenced to ten years of which she served six month like. Let's just what that seabed that set. What is up? Yeah well with the justice system these days. She's a white woman crazy. She was released in March nineteen ninety-seven and she was also sentenced to one thousand hours of community service. I feel like I was sentenced to one thousand hours of community service for stealing perfume from hollister. Like how is that? That's some wild wild discrepancy. She did her time She got out and Shannon never tried out for the cheer squad ever again nowadays. Shayna has said that. She salvaged her relationship with her mother but stays away from becoming a stage. Mom She's like I know people like Russia I don't want to. This story is so fun. I have no one got hurt so I can say that. It's fun it's crazy. But there's a big underlying bummer. Here and come with me on this journey and don't judge too much. There's part of me feels for Wanda Wanda's biggest insecurity was never being accepted. She was from the wrong side of the one ten. She was always looked down upon. She thought people were judging her Cadillac. Not sure how that panned out. She thought becoming a cheerleader would solve all her problems and she wasn't able to do it for herself wasn't able to do it through. Her daughter wasn't able to go to business school. I kind of feel for her in that sense. She has her dreams that she was probably thinking about all day long every single day and then all of a sudden a perfect amber in Verna come along and take it all away this be the first time in the history of our podcast. I couldn't have less empathy for walk me through outside of her parents. Not Letting her cheer. Many of these are self inflicted choices. She married Tony. Who was like? I don't want you to work. She made choices as an adult and she also got a lot of the things that she dreamed of right in the ways that she got them and at some point to me all of my empathy goes to. Sheena one thousand percent. This poor girl who like you know just half finished paintings somewhere. I cannot relate on any level to wander my voice. Is that what you're saying? No I think you're not evil because you have empathy and I generally feel like I find empathy pretty easily for people and I'm having a hard time on this one. I feel what she's a piece of poop like. I understand that I mean she tried to get people killed but I feel like we don't. We don't know how she grew up kind of sounded like maybe she was like a little besides driving a cadillac. Like no she had a hard life she was from a shady town shows an accepted. She wanted to do the one thing that she thought was going to make her. Accept it and for some reason that just like in her brain for her entire life. She has mental health issues. Like I think we can establish that. I have empathy for that and I'm sure in small town. Texas mental health isn't too huge business. But I think as a mom that bums me out so hard like all of that up until her putting it onto her daughter. I'm with you and then I'm like that's just so fucking I really feel bad for Shayna. I agree who knows how many experiences she missed out on as a kid because she was like forced to wear it's cheerleading. Yeah and that being said I think every parent brings their garbage to parenting like just the deal media like. How do you even avoid that? No you can't you know your triggers exist and then when you see your kids whatever but you know what okay. I have a little empathy. I don't force like you're not joining me out of empathy and I'm talking you into empathy. I we land somewhere in the middle. I think there is a piece of us that can understand is certainly when mental illness plays a part. You always yeah have empathy. Because that's you know it's tough. It's an illness I just feel like the real tragedy might be that the thing she thought would make her life better ultimately her demise. Yeah it's it's like A weird at a piss story but instead of a mom it's cheerleading. It's like when you just think a thing is going to change your life. It's like you're not doing the real worker all Wanda. You're not doing the real work. Whoa did one. The teachers have valuable life. Lasagna it's never cheerleading. Just a totem. The real work steeper than you're focusing on the wrong things just like live your life and hopefully those happinesses. Yeah come your way. Oh come. However they're meant to an all of a sudden. The real work would have been to not meet cheerleading unless it came organically. Yeah so I will leave you with this. The Wanda Holloway story was immortalised in a made for TV movie starring Holly Hunter like Sudan talking to beach called the positively true adventures of the alleged Texas cheerleading murder. Mom I feel like they could have short nine for Jane. So that was the story of the POM Pom. Good one right. Yeah what a wild. It was a wild ride. I can't think of anything in life. I've ever wanted badly enough to kill someone for I hope. Do I not have aspirations? Do not have bullets find from that. I don't really want to kill somebody just like. Lazy Dreams was in guys. We hope that you have goals out there that you're willing to kill for. I think Rachel. Ninety to get shirts that say Wanda and Shane an amber and Myrna. I'm making that up right now. All right guys. We'RE GONNA be back next week with another story. We hope you will tune in. Thanks for listening. Hall of shame is a product of crooked media. The show is produced by Carolina Reston. Alison falsetto are executive producers. Sarah Guys Mer and Steven Hoffman Engineering and sound designed by Kyle Seguin and Charlotte Landis. Our Theme Music is by Takayasu Zaghawa. Thank you to Sydney and Brian. Semel for production support every week.

Shayna Amber Verna Wanda Wanda Verna Shane Wanda Holloway Amber Shayna Tony WANNA Wanda Wanda Wanda Verna Cheer Squad Texas Shayna amber Rachel Ho Wanda murder Wanda Terry Paul Mom Courtney
Friday 11/6/20 - The Disappearance of Natalee Holloway Part II

Chicago Dog Walk

29:28 min | 8 months ago

Friday 11/6/20 - The Disappearance of Natalee Holloway Part II

"Alright bank today. Is friday november six. Welcome to the dog walkers barstool sports if you listen last friday you're going to want to stop this right now and go listen to that because this is part. Two part two by the disappearance of natalie holloway We have true crime. Eliane again We do you know we get into it again. And yeah it's not gonna make much sense if you don't hear the first parts of pauses right. Now go listen apart to everybody else looking to get into a right now. I wanna talk about roman. I most guys have tried different ways to last longer in bed whether singing about baseball saying the pledge of allegiance backwards or counting backwards from ten. Okay it doesn't it doesn't always work. We know that that's why the folks are roman. An online mantell companies changing the game with roman swipes roman swipes are clinically proven way to last longer in bed. 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So i don't know there but after that that the case went cold due to being no evidence there's no other witnesses that really saw her until february two dozen eight to three years later. The aruban officials decided to reopen the case against vandersloot because they received footage of him doing an interview with a crime reporter and there was a hidden camera with an interview and essentially during the interview. He talked about the details. Of how natalie died so this is the first time first of all i. He mentioned that she is not alive anymore. So that really kind of flips it into are looking for a girl missing girl looking for body. So you know. He talks about kind of details of her death and they send a into authorities. Now they're they're reopening of is she dead in digital killer in our these details at. You're saying true and two years later you assume the worst of course but kinda have him confirmative. All people strange again. I don't know what like this guy is an interesting. I guess i dunno care to. You is the attention he not have. So yeah it's it's definitely interesting in however nothing really came about. After the sentence the authorities they looked into it but they couldn't prove any of the details into what he was saying how she died true so they kind of had to let it go. They weren't able to do any answer tied at that point And obviously we think of their hands being tied because our first instinct to stink of our judicial system when their hands would be tied. I don't know what their judicial system is like down there I can't imagine they could do much more than you know. We could do or anything like that but it is. It is a different judicial system so they had go by their rules. could have had aspect on it as well for sure and even here though too you know how important having the body is right. Yeah that's that's main thing if she is dead. Where's her body or if she's alive still wears her by where is she so unfortunately they couldn't. There was nothing else they could really do that. In it was just kind of another notch. in the belt of stories stories. He was coming up with and they had to move on so later that year. Though in november of two dozen eight jordan vandersloot did another interview actually in thailand. This time where he says that he's sold natalie holloway into sex slavery so this is the first time we hear that story and he's also switching back to. Oh she's still alive or was still alive when i sold their into sex slavery so that's our just messing around even more at a yes now. It seems like he's coming up with this calling these stories out of thin air attention guy. Yeah definitely that narcissistic personality i want. I want the attention on this. Even if i'm the bad guy he i his sense it seemingly like he knows he has kind of over her family at this point two. I hold all the answers in i. The only one who can give it to you kind of plays off bat The only i do not think that the sex slavery various true. I think there's nothing to support that. There's not spend a lot other than the two points that can advocate for. Were like you said earlier. Why were three of them. Involves wire the capital brothers. Were they helping him do that. They helping her seller into sex. Slavery was preplanned. He was going to get the girl they were gonna be the drivers in and whatnot. The only other thing that i can see playing into that we'll get into this a little later on was a money thing He was known to be casinos. A lot do a lot of gambling. So was it a quick quick money thing knowing that this girl was not from there. She was kind of easily removable shoes. Not local that. Could i could see that. Also play into it if it if that is the case. Go point so again after that though. He reached out recanted. A statement told him that was all a lie. He just made it up so that really again. That was kind of a dead ends lead for them and the case dragged down again until march. Twenty ninth of two thousand tab so you're have couple of years later. Inner sloops actually reached out to beth and her lawyer essentially attempted to extort money from her. He claimed that four two hundred and fifty thousand dollars. Twenty five thousand dollars up front. He would show natalie where not always remains. Were so again. Our switching back to natalie is dead in his eyes earn his stories in now. He's trying to make a buck off. Bit in extort. The family were so at that point. Bethann her lawyer. John kelly gets the fbi involved. And they decide that the lawyer. Mr kelly is going to meet up with joined. Be under suits in a hotel room to kind of do the quote unquote money exchange. And so they meet up. Kelly again scanner salute ten thousand dollars cash while than is working with the fbi in wires the rest of the fifty thousand dollars to banner suit during that meeting where he says. I can actually take you to where her remains are found. You know this'll be your closure. Get your answers. Yada yada so. The money's exchanged Now has twenty five thousand dollars. And he takes john kelly to this randomly new location and gives him another story. So this new story is he was holding natalie in his arms basically carrying her she wanted to be put down. He threw her down on the ground. She hit her head on iraq and dive right there. So that's new. And then he her or excuse. Me took john kelly to a house that was nearby you pointed to the concrete and said my dad buried her in the foundation and that's where she is the poor mother man mother. I know she has been such an advocate. This case still to this day. She fights for media attention on this case to sounds games. I mean she essentially was like. I'm not giving up dead or alive. We will find her. Bring her home figure out what happened to her. She full on believes. She's very adamant that. If if natalie is dead join vandersloot was the one that killed her. So do they ever go because then they the home close by and then he said they buried her in the foundation of the holiday. Ever like at least go through that or do you know so soon after they he had taken the lawyer. There's is foundation. My father helped we her yada yada yada. Essentially now that he had the money They part ways and he ends up emailing john. Kelly telling him. Basically everything was fine. She's not there in just disappears into the win with twenty five thousand dollars from excusing okay. Well isn't that illegal in itself can't what's what's the charge there l. You're smarter the. What could they give him with here. And it's like an alcohol we got your ass for tax evasion instead of being a criminal exactly so they definitely get him on wire money and extortion from That's for sure illegal. No matter what involved from anyone actually just. It's a random person still extortion and they actually. The fbi has has brought charges against him. So we'll get into that. He's going to be extradited after his current prison sentenced to the us to be had those charges brought against him. So he's he's got a long road and that's interesting. I think that's where we go next. How did he end up in prison in the first place which is. Yeah so yeah. He's often the wind with twenty five thousand dollars from natalie. Holloway's mom i'm again. The case goes cold because they've got nothing else to go on. And so we fast forward. Actually to make thirtieth of two thousand and ten so five years to the day that natalie hallway disappeared jordan. Vandersloot is convicted of murder in peru. And this was for a university students. Stephanie floors who. He was accused of beating or strangling to death in a hotel room so he admitted guilty on that one on the same data. He was arrested for the murder of stephanie. Lawrence is when the us brought the wire and extortion charges against him as well so that that was pretty bad day for him on his end rob deserve five years later. You know if you're one of those people who thinks he did it which i mean. I don't know how you can't be. But i guess maybe someone else has some crazy theory. Could you not be you know exactly. Yeah definitely well deserved and so it took about two years. January of doesn't twelve vandersloot pleaded guilty to beating florist to death robbing her and then taking off her belongings. So it's to me. That's very coincidence. That this young girl in a country that you know an another country vannerson is not from perot. So he's in a new country. Beat this girl. The death rabs her runs off a win with her steph or her money whatever. Her personal belongings took with her. So we've got a pattern of Stealing the extortion stealing her belongings. He seems to kind of hop around a lot doesn't stay in one place along so that could be. He's evaded all these charges. And who knows what else he's done if he's hopped around. What else could he get involved in other places that we know of point exactly and he you know similar thing. It seems like a similar setup with her right. It was a casino hotel. So yeah exactly. They were seen in a casino together. She was staying in a hotel. So it's all very too close for comfort to natalie's case that for him to not be involved in both in my so he's imprisoned like he's you know he's serving his for extortion and that is there anything else that has kinda come up here like any other findings about natalie. Anything they got close on you came across so there were a couple other kind of it. Dead ends essentially. That came up so join join. Got twenty eight years sentence for the murder of laura's once he is finished serving that sentence he'll be extradited to the us dancer forms. Extortion charges other than that november. Two thousand and ten a female job own was found in aruba near a hotel so this was Kind of a red herring in the hallway case beth had since dental records into the authorities. Unfortunately it was discovered through dna that it was not natalie it was someone else And then fast forward seven years act over two thousand seventeen more bones were found in aruba for bonds the exact but only one of them proved to be human and again through dna testing. It was not natalie's It has been said speculated through kind of the media that i essentially these were kind of a claim to get some attention through the media by using this story. I'm not really a these two of the bones being found weren't used to as like a. We've found a bone. Maybe we can help solve this case. Like oh we found a bone natalie. Holloway case previously had a lot of coverage. We can get a lot of contents out of that. So unfortunately they kind of us story is used as a means for attention. Yeah not great Again leads to another dead end than it doesn't seventeen john ludwig. All of a sudden comes out of the woodwork and goes on in oxygen. Oxygen did where he claimed that. This john ludwig get cleaned. That him enjoyed vander. Sloops crushed. natalie's bones burned her body and got so got rid of all the evidence and she was never seen again this to be a complete lie No one really knows where john would came. y essentially. He just wanted to insert himself in the case In and now is it which which sucks because that again put the family through. Oh maybe we have our answers. Just kidding no you. Don't strange i don't know why people keep inserting themselves but people are nuts and this guy he was not right. Yeah he was because he so john ludwig was then the following year to eighteen. He was actually killed during an attempt to kidnap a woman down in florida. So it wasn't a first run in with with the law or any troubles. Sounds like he was stepping involved in some other things as well and then now is the case dismissed. Because he's put away or what's the what's the current state so that case hallway it was aruban authorities dismissed it but they said they've never officially closed it so essentially it's still cold case. Typically i know for the us side of things. There's not a lot of essentially worked as as they can. You know we've got a lot of current cases. I don't know if it's the same a aruba if they have specific department that works just cold cases or if they get to them when something comes up or when it's possible But as right now it's it's still go case. We don't have any more evidence on her. We have no other. Witnesses noah answers. Natalie remains still. She still on the fbi seeking information list for her whereabouts. Any information to what happened to her Again vandersloot remains in prison for the next twenty years. And we'll be extradited the us so that's that's very unfortunately is left hanging. We have no other answers into that. She's alive and now is there any you know what's the big questions for you like. What are you really questioned the most or is there like a couple of questions you have. Yes so for me. Going back to the last story that jordan told of he was holding her she wanted to be put down. He threw it on on the ground. She hit her head on iraq and died if not really was the situation. Why didn't you immediately go to college already say help. I think this girl has endured terrible accidents in that sense. I mean i can understand him being afraid of getting in trouble but it wasn't if that was true the story it wasn't intentional. You had full capability of getting help for her If she hit her head maybe someone you know. Medical attention could have helped her. So that's my question of. It really wasn't accident. why didn't you get how. Why was he holding her. That's that seems to me in Down do you have to throw her down on ground End with that story of being buried in the foundation is that why during various his father was acting suspicious strat interview. Did he know something about it or was he someway involved. If this is the actual story that would that would place in there and give him involvement in. Its or some reason for him to access dishes in some way. Yeah the fathers the fathers a good point for sure. It's super likely he acted alone now to me. It's it's pretty unlikely that even if he was the if she's dead if he was one who killed her i think at least somebody else or maybe the capital brothers had knowledged or helped him in that situation. Get rid of a body or helper disappear simply. I don't think he was completely just done on. Its own What some other theories kind of out there did you read anything about that. Or what's different if someone wants to go. Certain routes found interesting or maybe not interesting. But just what's what's out there that you've seen yeah so again if since vannerson has not officially been charged with the murder. We don't know if he's dead or alive you know. Fortunately statistics of her being alive at this point are slim to none. But i'm no officials have ever have ever standard body and vannerson has never been charged. But i think in some way that or alive she is she has disappeared. And i think vandersloot definitely had some play in it one way or another or not. He is not giving And i think with that he. He went back and forth between. She's dead she's alive. She's at she's alive We were here. We were there. I think in each story that he told there's a little piece of truth. things that kept occurring in historians for the beach You know they had had fooled around. Maybe or something like that. I think there's maybe a little bit of truth in every story. I'm in east twisting it. So he can get some attention and keep themselves innocent until proven guilty Giving enough to find a body find where she's at or you know get himself into trouble but he's giving just enough of the attentions kept on him so i think that was kind of interesting. I definitely think he was involved in some way though. They weren't makes you say you didn't think sex traffic. And what makes you kind of against that there. So i think it's possible i wouldn't rule out the sex slavery theory I don't think it for me. It's not on the top of the list because one he was convicted of murdering another girl In peru so if it were actually everything why did he sell her sexually everybody of murder her And if that is it doesn't fit me. It would fit me if it were a money thing In the couple brothers had helped him do that but seemingly he bounces around a lot Capital brothers don't really come up in any other scenarios or any other of his locations that he's involved at So if it were actually. I would think they would kind of travel in a pack together in do that together so for me that theory. It's definitely possible because there has been nobody owns and so we don't know she's dead or alive so neck is it possible for me. It's seemingly more possible that she is dead and he did something with her remains just because all of his other Stories had to do with in being evolved or her getting her in dying or her being incapacitated in some way. So do you think it was premeditated or no. So i think if if he killed her. There was some premeditation there or some. Ill intent there whether beano ethics tino. He saw her Soccer as an easy targets knew she was from out of town. It was late at night. You know took her to a bar concerns Easy target that way so somewhat premeditation of you know. I'll take that one. And in the way that i think maybe though what could have been premeditated was a robbery. He could have wanted to take advantage of her rob her get out of there and something going to happen. She rejected him. She tried to fight back and he ended up killing her because of that So if it were premeditated robbery and she ended up dead that way. I could see that pressure where the help brothers were in on it. They were going to help him. Rob her it again. Something along the lines went wrong. And he ended up killing her. I could see that if it was premeditated murder. Mike question is the premeditation for me would come from something Does the regular if this was not his first victim. You know we honestly no. He's got at least one confirmed victim. That stead again. We don't know the other countries that he kinda bounces around from what he's doing over there or if he's connected cases so if there's something he has been involved in more than one. Time definitely saves premeditated Especially 'cause stephens or as or is he just finding these seemingly easy targets for robbery purposes to get money to gamble so or is there a sexual motive behind it. Does he see an easy target for sexual motives I think he definitely has some ill intent the narcissism thing you definitely the narcissism he was. He loves the attention Fun fact he did back in july. You did get covid in prison. So some sort of karma gain weight or something. Yeah right is are dotted. They have like a release. He's still in there. Because i was a big thing right. Still he got twenty eight years code but he was not released because of it so glad he wasn't so all his the interviews and everything like some people just want to be in the limelight. So much infamous is better than nothing. So yeah yeah definitely. I don't know what do you think what is your. Do you think he was involved in it. You think it was something different. I think the two things. okay. I think wine. I think it's very crazy that we still don't have a body. Yeah 'cause i'm sorry. I know there's a chance we saw alive but you know it's almost fifteen years later it's hard to. It's over fifteen years later. It's hard to operate under the assumption that she still alive and i think like i think it's it's pretty clear like there are people like him. Don't get be wrong. There are pathological liars and there are people like the limelight and there are people that like to be involved by. I mean if it walks like a duck it smells like there's there's so many things and you know if this was a guy who just popped out of the shadows and was giving these stories out in these interviews maybe but the fact that this guy who's giving these interviews and putting you know stories in people's head and reporters journalist was with her. The day of the crime is too much for me. Yeah i agree with that. He wasn't you know john. Ludwig suddenly popped out yonder circling. He said it was vibrated. Went away whereas you're at vandersloot. Cats kept going with. It kept putting himself in that place in. He was the last person or one of the last people to be seen with her. So i think if anything. He's he knows something. Maybe couple brothers know something. Maybe the father knows something but they are not sharing it and until they do or a body found. Unfortunately there's nothing else they can really do that. And how old are you ellie. I'm twenty four. Do you remember this much when it when it happened or no. I do not. I learned about this case when i started looking at true crime. I don't remember when this is going on. Yes i was in. I was in eighth grade. Actually and i remember it being like a thing where like people are my mom. I specifically remember mom. Because i've i've told her sisters. Do you know you're not going to aruba for spring break like it was like people became afraid of a robot. And you know it was it was. It was big time news. It was it was all over the place. Yeah that's that's really interesting that you remember is happening especially having two older sisters. I think i think parents get very weary of young kids. Going on caribbean trips spring break or graduate stuff like that with good reason. I mean things like this to happen and their rules are different there than they are in the us But i do think it blew up so much because beth holloway was very adamant in doing interview on interview medium medium meeting. Yeah let's keep this case alive And i think it was very much in the public eye because there were no answers. You know it wasn't an open shut. Murder cases tuna status girl stones. Not impound everything. It's got everything. Eighteen school trip on international surveillance. Agai talent crazy stories. The mother take it had it had pretty much just about everything so yeah then a whirlwind case. I don't know that we'll ever have answers. But we'll keep our fingers crossed for the family needs closure either way definitely will alley. Thank you for doing this. Is there anything else that we we should end on or anything else. You've got to get her. That's how i appreciate you having me on time. We appreciate you hopping on. That was great. Thanks again Thanks everybody for listening. That's it for today as ever. This week will cut you all on monday.

natalie vandersloot natalie holloway twenty five thousand dollars fifty thousand dollars john ludwig vannerson fbi Eliane john kelly jordan vandersloot Twenty five thousand dollars Bethann Mr kelly ten thousand dollars aruba Vandersloot Stephanie floors Holloway beth
Friday 10/30/20 - The Disappearance of Natalee Holloway

Chicago Dog Walk

27:48 min | 8 months ago

Friday 10/30/20 - The Disappearance of Natalee Holloway

"Alabama today is Friday October thirtieth with the dog walk presented by Barstool sports got another true crime Friday. But before I introduce my gas before we really get into it I wanNA talk about Roman obviously most guys have tried different ways to last longer in bed but thinking about baseball doesn't always work. You know sitting there thinking about your coin collection but like Oh do I need this guy do I knew that Wanna Stop doing that. You don't need to do that anymore because Roman, the man's online health company is changing the game with Roman swipes and it's the secret to lasting longer during sex Romans five star clinically proven away to last longer in bed, they're effective easy to use and fast acting, but they don't require prescription. Roman can ship swipes you in discreet unmarked packing and he swipe packet a small enough to hide your wallet for wherever you need it. They're super easy to use just take the swipe out of the packet, swipe it on, let it dry and you're good to go. That's it. Get your hands on these all you. GotTa. Do is go to get Roman dot com slash dog walk in a year I bought the swipes for just five dollars when you choose a monthly plan that's get. Roman. Dot Com says dog walk go do her folks. You've got nothing to lose Romans of best enhance your sex game. All right. So my guest is Ellie she's doing some true crime Friday with us today so much medium extended to be here with you guys wants today a very high profile case here for true confrontation we're talking some Natalie Holloway. Yes. Yeah. Very well known case is pretty popular is about fifteen years old Nelson actually hasn't been solved but. If. You're good. So we can jump right in. Yeah. That's Great I. Guess There's a little bit far. You just had like a a strong interest in this kind of stuff as well like what are you are you kind of involved with everything you listen to all the podcasts how do you? Go about your your true crime, I guess. I'm not really interested in after I started working this job I've always been interested in kind of criminal justice ruled today studied in college But as far as true crime itself after studying justice kind of taking interest in it I- outside of my work life like to. Research Cases Ki- kind of up to date with. Current cases listen to podcasts stuff like that, and it's it's interesting to listen to different I cast time the same story. In see where they get their information from and whatnot? Yeah. The perspectives because it's so interesting now that it's such a big genre, it's still weird for me to say like entertainment because it's like you know it's kind of like a fine line, but it turned into this thing wherever everyone listened to the podcast and everything. So it's it's you know there's message boards there's people getting information from facebook. So you're right like people here shit from everywhere. So it's kind of interesting. Yeah. It's definitely interesting. Especially those boards facebook reddit stuff like that getting. Everyone's two cents, two cents on it or people. Kinda give their stories if they really anyway involved or know someone that was involved in. You get a lot of different. Doesn't ask it. I mean, they don't even have to be involved. I drove by that town once and I saw the you know what I mean. They don't even care L. proclaimed involves. Yes exactly. Exactly. Sorry we can kick it off here with some Natalie Holloway. The floor is yours alley. Perfect. So now the hallway was in eighteen year old when she disappeared, she was graduating high school in. Alabama. And in May, this isn't two thousand and five and may two is just getting ready to graduate in her class trip took a trip down to Aruba. And that was unfortunately the last thing she was seen in where she disappeared from so. Natalie was described by her friends as very much a rule follower someone who was very careful very smart, good steadier. Good students choose a dancer a said she was very outgoing very silly but I'll come over all. She was one of those no bs of girls was very aware of herself. which I think is just kind of interesting for. This case as a whole which we'll get into. So on the night of her stance that it was the evening between may twenty nine and may thirtieth of two thousand five. Natalie and her classmates they were out and about at the local joints I'm enjoying their time. This was their last night actually rebut. So at one point in the night. I run kind of broke off some people went back to hotels and people went in their own ways. Directions and Natalie was seen on camera actually had a casino that was adjacent to the hotel she was staying at and she was at a blackjack table. Now, at the same table on a surveillance camera, there was a young man by the name of who is who's touched, and he was sitting at the same table. They were later seen together leaving a bar close to the casino called Harlison. Charlie's. I'm around one thirty. Am It was seen from surveillance footage that she was getting into the backseat of a Gray Honda? And, I, say backseat because there were two other individuals in a frenzy which are joined Anderson's friends April or brothers Deepak Calvo. So they were all seen getting into the Greyhound skender. Unfortunately, that was less time to now hallway was ever seen. Do, you know like where they were going at this time was anything on that. No said that his never the other thing that came in my research with that the whole car situation was the gray Honda win later on Beth Holloway Natalie Smile. Win To. Vander sloops home to Kinda confronts him in and discuss what happens in. That same gray Honda was sitting in his driveway so. It's clear to me that that they were connected either If it was the couple brothers or if it was the car in south, they're connected to the car that day Liangelo wasn't like. A taxi new verse anything like that I don't Louis time back then but. So essentially it wasn't. It wasn't known where they went the rest of their whereabouts that night. Is Pretty much of in the air because every time that mostly joined the understood he is kind of our are suspect in this case on the couple brothers were released before Anderson was when they were taken into custody by the. gave a bunch of different stories throughout the stray. He essentially every time he was questioned about it, Dan gave a news story on in they don't know where they're going. That is definitely a question that comes up as to. Where they were going why? They were leading the area why all for them were leading the area what were they all going to do? And we'll get that when we talk about the stories that he tells. Mr Anderson tells later on, but no one really knows. As far as that other than that was the last people to see her. Or the footage was the last thing she was seen. For sure I mean you're if you're eighteen on a class trip and then you're on surveillance all my casino just having a fun time. What she was there to do with their classmates and you go missing, you're going to look at the people who were the last of course. So. And that was, you know I'm I'm sure that was kind of a factor into it was a young girl there. Especially eighteen those kids at the time you know drinking obviously wasn't illegal or was illegal in the US wasn't in there are drinking age in these in these. Countries are season in the Caribbean and stuff. So. You, know it's never. Directly correlated that any substance for involved but they were kind of at the local joins Carlos and Charlie's bar there at the casino those kinds of things so. It's definitely kinda comes into play of what they were doing, what they were going to do. For, so that's the last time she's seen now do people like instantly freak out like what do they? Not realize until they went to leave what happens next yes. So the next morning that was. Around one thirty am nights. The twenty ninth in the morning of the thirtieth so that morning net thirty s everyone was supposed to meet in the lobby so that they could go catch their flights, go back home. No Sir last night there. I'm Natalie obviously didn't show up. At first everyone was kind like all right. You know she's running late you May. She's hungover she in something like that. But then they went in checked her hotel room and her things were all still there nothing nothing was had been touched singers it was clear that she had not. Come back or even attempted to pack her things or anything like that. So it's kind of like she just walked away. I'm going to think at that point it was. Starting to become a worry that okay she has even been here she hasn't even tried to. Attempt. To make it to the lobby to come back home. So what what's going on why? Why would this be happening I'm they checked the hotel surveillance and their after that surveillance camera of her leading Carlos to Charlie's there was no surveillance camera footage of her returning to the hotel. So. We know when she left the hotel that night she did not come back in other things are still there. So she did not. Come back at all and that was that was when it became clear that okay. We've got something's going on and they contacted her parents Beth. Holloway is her mom in approximately twenty hours later. Flew down to Aruba start looking for our daughter ends. The police, the Aruban authorities met her when she got in there in May took her actually to join the understood Tom Insulin Linda Gray Honda was seen in the driveway in she confronted. Joran Vander Salute And he gave her a story I. This is the first of his many stories that he gives. So his first story. Wise. They were messing around on the beach together. He took her back to her tell her hotel draft Ross now is the end of it. Now it's so strange and I guess the difference you know not being in America America's like they would bring the mom right to his house. Right right. I got that as. 'cause I just would never. Hear if you know something was going on, you take me to this person who I did. It's No Way? No. Yeah. Like it's such a big thing where you know. The, people you don't. You never see the let alone come and counter like where you could be face to face with a you know someone who recusing that's just that's just a wild image. Think of that her mom getting off a flight and going right to meet up with Jordan. Vendors slit right and I could see an way of like signing out into grape lying of her friends of who she was with an and her maybe going. On, her own to his house out of her own decision but she is accompanied by the authorities there. That's I think is kind of interesting part that they were willing to seek her there to talk to her talk to him. Yeah, for sure and you have an interesting note here, like you said, he says, they went to the beast full round by wasn't the hotel was by the beach. Yes. If you look at a picture of the until she stayed at I was in the easy news are calling him sent you the hotel is right there on the beach so. My question. Okay. They were leaving Cranston Charlie's I don't know how far that bar was from the hotel but keep in mind we are on in the Caribbean it can't be all that if they were getting in the car were they going one they driving to the beach? And if so, why did they drive to hotel to go that each that was right at the hotel if you had plans to Rof anyways you even if they were going around on a beach, why didn't you say? All right let's go back to Mattel. We can go to the beach there and then you can go back to your towel or or even I can come back to your hotel with you use go right back. So tell that's Where did you go and you could be far away? Why? I guess you know let's let's just completely not that we should. But if you did give him the benefit the doubt right maybe he really is well versed with Aruba maybe besides that place he wants to take her to like a romantic beach. Maybe there's like something with a better site I don't know. Yeah that's actually that's definitely good site that I did not. I didn't I didn't think about see that point. At this point in history was they messed around on the beach but he didn't stay where the cowboy brothers went. So, what were all for them on the beach were all three of the boys involved was just under Slough? They didn't really ray around online kind of change their story a little bit but that's that's definitely a good point where they could have been going to. You know more secluded beach Something kind of year like you said, a romantic status link at this point but who knows? You're right though they leave them in the car with like hey, we'll be right back. We've got to do that I. Don't know you're right. That's. That's pretty interesting but then I, don't know. So. Obviously. The story of him, her back off at the hotel turn out to be very quickly because there's no footage of her returning to the hotel So we know we know that was lie right off the Bat. So why is the first stories telling wise that ally? In why does he have a reason to lie essentially? So, about a week later. Vander sloot in the couple brothers were all taken into custody by every minute thirty on the disappearance or hassle disappearance of Natalie Hallway, and that's when they came up with a little bit of a twist on that story on where the chemical brothers said that they dropped the flute and Holloway off at the beach and and that was the end of it for the cow brothers is it that's all we were involved. We don't know what happened after that and. Then Vander sloot said he left Natalie Sleeping, alone beach. And what are you? What do you make of that? Is Anything that kind of your question there so My first question is, why does she do story? Why did you say you took her back to the hotel and now you're saying you after on the beach what what reason do you have to come up with two different stories? Right I mean unless I can understand your playing devil's advocate for a minute. Easy kid he's nervous that he's somewhat involved in the disappearance of a girl who's not even from there So I can see why he would y Oh, I dropped her off and then you change kind of distanced himself from his involvement with her But still it doesn't make sense to me. So if that's true. If we're going with that theory, a couple brothers dropped him off several brother leave. It's just. Joined under Suit Hall van the Beach. Number taken with you know they messed around and then. My question is if you and someone are alone on a beach, especially for Natalie in an area where she is not familiar with. You guys even if you're fooling around, you know just laying in Best more Patriot thing Mr thing but it's weird to me. They were decide to sleep on the beach just like out in the open in in Nothing just like all sleep on the beach and. When it's you, one of the person in that person decides to leave. It's very. Just odd to me that she wouldn't wake up. She would stay there alone on the beach ourselves and just kinda watch him walk away instead of being like, okay I'm GonNa. Leave to. Snatches just really doesn't add up to me. And obviously, we don't really know the extent of. The substances she was on, right so In the first part. Okay. You're hopping into a car I mean. You gotta be pretty. either. Against Her will I would say pretty incapacitated to hop a car like away like how am I going to get back? Right or just be like I'm just like like I'm just going to pass out here. You know exactly there's I definitely. Think. If that was Casey, left her on the beach I would be shocked if she was not neagh rated whatsoever. into point. Though. Why wouldn't he say she was passed out I went. That he didn't bring. Aspect. In split of owes you really drug I didn't want to deal with so I laughed. In sleeping on the beach so I don't know. You know maybe there. May Be did he give her something and you didn't want to admit that S- a yeah. For her to get into car with three men she doesn know or just met in a strange area and that's I kinda made the point of beginning of all her friends described very careful person not sticking on the wind person take risks. So that does definitely spikes the questions of what what else was involved in that night or what were they doing? It's it's hard like you've been to Mexico or something alley like you know. How much would it take for you to be like hey? I'm going to hop in this car leave the resort and go with you know. Three people I don't know it. Would you know? And that's not an object. Put any any blame Natalie hallway known at all. We were all teachers at one point you're in a country where you're at legal drinking age. Founding mostly she she didn't none of these kids really had an experience that whether before their underage in the United States having a good time you know obviously they don't. The therefore is not GonNa be I'm danger everyone wants to give everyone the benefit out ignorance inspectors can happen to them No. Yeah, and that's just me saying I think she definitely. Probably was held against her will to some capacity or you know like she just wasn't the right state of mind which is like you said, she's eighteen no falter on like you you get drunk or whatever. You don't think like some horrible is going to happen to you. So it's not it was out of her control like that. That's what that's what I mean by that. You know. Yeah definitely and I think. I think. So Beth Holloway after that she goes, you know the boys are taken into custody they give him a whole new story they're being held in custody and Beth Holloway then goes back to the vendor suit home and actually sits down with an interview with Jordan's parents Polisena. Anita. In this interview to me was very interesting I. Don't I don't think a lot came out of it with just the aspects around the interview where. Jordan's father was acting pretty suspicious gary nervous sweating to excess wasn't really sharing a lot of information his mother was sitting there. And she says she was sobbing crying she's crying crying crying crying crying Which is interesting to me because. Live you know why was the? Father Acting suspicious. Why was the mom sitting there crying? So I think. In. The sense of I get it again, playing devil's advocate your son is being held in custody for possible disappearance of the young girl I can understand why the mother would be upset or even the dad would be nervous. But at the same time, this was not an interview with A. This is an interview with Natalie's mom and in and out order just I'm a media reporter so It's difference me like if you were if you were held in an interview with the authorities, I can understand why you'd be nervous even media can understand, but it just seems very. Dubious to me that there was so much. Odd Behavior in this interview yeah. No I hear you. What was you know? That he leave out little detail that has been beat himself up about there's a lot of stuff there for survey. Was He involved? Did he know something? To me again, I can see why the mom would be very emotionally I'm obviously that's her son he's been he's being alleged of. Some, maybe some crime that he's of this disappearance girl but also on the flip side of that if you. If you think he's innocent. In, the mother of the missing girl in the media is there to interview you my first thought would be. They would be praising his innocence over and over enough in. This is the story you know Boban seemingly none of that happened there is. There is nothing. In the research, it was just the Momma's crying the Abbas sledding, his acting Mary That's it was just odd in on interviews me as if maybe they knew something or Jordan had had told him something they had helped him in any way I don't know but it was definitely is kind of piqued my interest. In stating that the that's very interesting for sure. So then. Pass Laura to July fourth two, thousand five. The couple brothers were released from custody and there were no charges were brought against him essentially didn't have anything to hold them on we have. A missing girl we have no. Other. Really information other than some a little bit surveillance. At that that doesn't really again show that they were committing a crime. It just shows that they were the last person to be seen with her. They were released they still to this day not charged with anything. But Mr Vander sloot stayed in custody until August and. In. August. He was then released again due to lack of evidence. There is no, we have a missing girl, but we have no body. We have no solid story. No Salad witnesses. I'm really nothing else to go onto our trinity were. Forced to release him. So why do you think there were so quick to kind of you know. Release the CAPPOS aren't didn't they see him at the last time as well. So that's Right right I don. I. It's interesting that AH limelight kind of immediately went to join be under suit and I don't know if that's because. He was seen with her advocacy now, and at the Bar I'm it didn't. It didn't say anything about the cowboys being at the casino or anything previously involved before they got into the car. which also is kind of weird in and of itself where did they come from? Why do they? Both need to pick them up all three of needs to get in a car with with now. It's almost like it was really really really premeditated. Right? That's where I kind of premeditation from me starts to come in is this was planned that you guys were shot in a car with. It to abandon. But. I think they cowboys for a little more. disconnected. From It essentially or have seen as more like accomplices in Mesa thanks just because. The stories that were told her you know surveillance footage they were only seeing her in that car in in nothing further whereas you know vander sloop vendor suit made it a point. To tell all these different stories in two point himself in all these different scenarios with Natalie whereas the Coppola's they gave that one story. That's all we know. He's Yeah and this is where we're going to get here in a second work is really weird because he keeps saying a bunch of random shit that you would never say or you would never even bring the attention yourself at you just kind of distance yourself from it a little bit. So that's weird but I I don't know that's my radar goes up there because I don't know if this was like maybe some type of. Trafficking, thing like was was vander sued the guy who was there? You know I think it's called a coyote right you're supposed to go out and get them and they were the the pickup guys I don't know you know I know right. See is weird that they are involved for sharing in any enemies So, yeah. Like you said A, we get into best for February two dozen six. does interview in New York on the media and gives yet another race around the third version of what happened that night and he said now he says that. These together on the beach together and he left Natalie on the beach at night alive and well, completely unharmed he left home. So. That's different. Why why do an interview? Why did you change your story? Why? Why why come up with another story? Why you're the main suspect why are you continuing to do interviews and put yourself in the media's I? I you know I can see why Beth Holloway his mom would continue to be doing all these interviews. She wants to keep the case alive you want to keep. Attention on the case pressure on authorities to SAPA case but Joran a for me it's like. I get maybe advocating for your innocence you want to. Stand up yourself. Again, he's not really doing is not really going on media saying I'm missing medicine I didn't do it. I had nothing to do with it. He just keeps putting all these little different scenario together. I don't know. That's the only thing I can think of is like if you're so you're. So you know convincing you know deep down, you didn't do it but everybody knows I mean this is different divide between here and maybe Aruba where if you're you know by the advice of any legal counsel, it would be just as a shot up and get away from it forever. Yes. Ain't nothing more about it. Don't ask different stories to it so. And no matter what you feel. Right exactly and why cheese the beach story again why she was. You dropped her off at the hotel than you after sleeping on the beach venue after alive and unharmed went home. You didn't say she's asleep being though. So what she awake was she asleep was she. Okay. She not. Okay. Didn't you know why change that version of it when those seemingly pretty big details? especially. This year those pretty big details. Huge Arts and we're GONNA stop it right there part two coming next Friday about Natalie Holloway with Allie, will be back then see you next Friday for part two.

Natalie Natalie Holloway Beth Holloway Aruba facebook Charlie Mr Vander sloot Vander Joran Vander Salute Caribbean Alabama United States Carlos Mr Anderson baseball Honda Barstool sports Nelson Ellie
The Cheerleader Mom Pt. 1: Wanda Holloway

Female Criminals

39:46 min | 1 year ago

The Cheerleader Mom Pt. 1: Wanda Holloway

"Poet l Smith once wrote all the forces on this planet will never beat that of a mother's love and it's a difficult sentiment to argue against even in the world of female criminals. The love of a mother can lead to extraordinary acts of violence for example during World War. Two Leonardo Chan chilies eldest son was set to join the Italian army. The thought terrified Leonardo and she vowed to do everything in her power to protect him. She eventually decided that the only way to save her son was to offer the universe human sacrifices Leonardo drugged three unsuspecting neighbors. Who had come to her for help. She then used an axe to kill each woman and hack the bodies to pieces. Once they were dead she needed a way to dispose of the bodies so right there in her kitchen she broke the corpses down turning them into soap antiques. All for the love of her favorite son in Nineteen ninety-three Eliana slurs. Young son was set to testify against his alleged molester. Thirty Five Year Old Camp Counselor Daniel Marc driver but Ellie wasn't going to let that happen in the middle of the courtroom. She drew her gun and shot driver several times in the head and neck killing him in the aftermath. Ellie was seen as either a hero or a dangerous vigilante but mostly she's remembered as a fiercely. Protective mother separated by oceans and decades. These two very different women teach us one important lesson. Never underestimate what a mother is willing to do for her child. Picture a murderer a gangster. A thief did you picture a woman. We didn't think so- society associates men with dangerous crimes. But what happens when the perpetrator is female every Wednesday? We examine the psychology motivations and atrocities of female criminals. Hi I'm Vanessa Richardson. And you're listening to female criminals a podcast original. You can find episodes of female criminals and all other podcast originals for free on spotify or wherever you listen to podcasts to stream. Female criminals for free on spotify. Just open the APP and type female criminals in the search bar at podcast. We're grateful for you our listeners. You allow us to do what we love. Let us know how we're doing reach out on facebook and Instagram at podcast and twitter at podcast network today? We're covering Wanda Holloway. In Nineteen ninety-one. She hatched a plot to have the mother of her teenage daughters. Cheerleading rival killed this week. We'll take a look at Wanda's childhood her relationship with her daughter Shanna and how her hometown of Channel View Texas may have shaped her intense ambitions. Next week will delve into the murder-for-hire plot the media storm. It stirred up and how it affected everyone involved as its name suggests channel view Texas a town dominated by a wide shipping canal on either side of the Brown muddy water of the Houston ship channel. The land lies flat and rippled little more rises above the trees than chimney. Stacks or the occasional water tower along this low slung topography shipping containers float through the town atop carriers creating a landscape that appears to shift the closer. You get to the river. These ships brings something else to this. Hamlet East of downtown Houston Industry in Nineteen. Sixteen oil was discovered in the area which led to the construction of oil refineries towards the second half of the twentieth century. The town's dominant employment opportunities were factory jobs by nineteen fifty four. When Wanda Holloway was born the career options around channel view were limited. The men mostly worked in chemical plants. Women took on more traditional roles in that vein. Wanda's father Clyde web worked as a test or at a concrete plant. Her mother Verna stayed home with the children. The family like many of channel views. Residents were missionary. Baptists Clyde strict devotion to the church gave him a moral code with little room for deviation but that had its benefits it taught him to prize Christian morals and hard work above all else. Clyde instilled similar values in his children on Clyde's insistence the family attended the local Baptist Church three times a week until that is. He had a falling out with the leaders of the congregation. Clyde didn't think that members of the opposite sex should be allowed to swim together when this archaic belief was challenged by Church leaders. The Web Patriarch took his family and a splinter group of others to establish a new missionary. Baptist Church in this way. Clyde demonstrated to Wanda and her siblings. That when things didn't go your way you were allowed to get a little creative with the rules. However one does days weren't entirely consumed with the machinations at the local church as she grew up. Her hometown was also coming of age with a growing population. There was a greater demand for the town to socialize together. In Channel View there were fewer forms of entertainment more esteemed than high school football for a boy. Earning a place on the team cemented his status as a local deity for girls like Wanda one of the highest aspirations during the school year was to play a supporting role in the football story by either twirling batons or performing as cheerleaders during games. They too could bathe in the communities. Undivided attention for at least a couple of hours a week while we don't know much about Wanda's adolescence. Those who knew her best said she nursed a desire to join her high school's drill team since the squad of girls always took to the football field to march at halftime. It's understandable why she might have wanted to partake in the festivities. Unfortunately Clyde saw her ambition as a complete non starter in his opinion the skirts the girls wore as part of their uniform. Were entirely too short with her dream of participating on the drill team squashed Wanda remained on the sidelines for the rest of her high school years before. We with Wanda's psychology. I'm not a psychologist or psychiatrist. But I have done a lot of research for the show. According to those who knew her one to always craved acceptance and wanted people to like her to that end she sought to belong to the most beloved social groups. She could find the drill team in a two thousand eleven article published in current directions in psychological science. Researchers pointed out that social acceptance and the need for lasting and meaningful relationships lives at the heart of a person's core while much of Wanda's belief system was formed by her faith and her parents restrictions. She couldn't seem to shake the indomitable craving for acceptance from her friends and in the absence of that she'd settled for the acceptance of a boyfriend namely Tony Harper a high school senior. Tony's family live close by like Wanda's family. They were middle class but the harpers were better off financially. This potentially inspired some of Wanda's interest in Tony. Dr Seth J Gila Han from the University of Pennsylvania covers the concept of money wounds. These are according to author Ken. Honda a kind of injury concerning money. That many people have carried since childhood in this vein Wanda possibly had to money wounds. The I was growing up in a lower income area like channel view. The second was her controlling father. While there's no indication WanNa went without the essentials. It's possible that she was denied. Some things that she really wanted we know. Her father objected to the drill team uniform. Maybe Wanda wasn't allowed to wear other things. She thought were fashionable. But her father found too risque. As a result Wanda's thoughts might have turned towards finding a new situation for herself. Something that would help her. Climb the next rung on the Social Ladder and perhaps Wanda felt that a new family could help her get there. The Harper's weren't blue-collar like most of channel views population instead they owned businesses Tony's father R. E. own a gas station and convenience store his mother. Peggy operated her own boutique lingerie store. She also drove a Cadillac and accessorized with diamond rings to a teenage girl in the early Nineteen Seventies. These Kucherov wealth likely acted as a siren. Song Wanda heard it's call and perhaps without realizing it began to steer her ship towards financial stability she would have Tony and the comforts. His family enjoyed perilous rocks. Be Damned when Wanda dating Tony. It didn't take long for their FLIRTY CHATS. To become more serious early on marriage was already an option but in a Baptist town lake general view post high school weddings were a common occurrence so nobody was surprised when two weeks after she graduated in nineteen seventy two eighteen year old Wanda. Wed her high school sweetheart. Just thirteen months after the ceremony. The couple welcomed their first child. A boy they called Anthony Shane. Despite this happy addition there were already cracks in the relationship at weekly family. Dinners with Clyde and VERNA WANNA show to deference to her father's opinion that was infuriating to Tony in addition to dealing with the overbearing presence of her father. Tony was also saddled with a wife who showed little interest in sex according to Tony Wanda seemed to have a repressed nature in regards to her sexuality. Tony still in his early twenties considered his wife's attitude towards sex a massive problem so he spoke to Wanda's gynecologist. The doctor suggested that the couple conceive again theorizing that a woman's hormones change after a second child. The doctor hoped that would perhaps address. Wanda's lack of veto though. Her doctor believed Wanda's problem with sex was caused by her hormones. It seems more likely that it was a product of her religious upbringing in two thousand sixteen study titled The impact of Religious Commitment on women's sexual self esteem. Researchers found that women with high religious commitment held more conservative sexual attitudes. The study also showed that low sexual self esteem could manifest in inhibited ability to enjoy sex. Well we can't be sure of exactly what caused Wanda's disinterest in sex. She knew it was causing trouble in her marriage. So she sought advice from Tony's mother. Peggy in an interesting turn of events. Peggy revealed that she had also disliked sex as a young woman. She thought that seeing a psychiatrist would help want to overcome the barriers to more intimacy with her husband. According to Peggy WanNa balked at the idea. It's possible she didn't like the thought of sharing her intimate life with a stranger so the suggestion was dismissed dismissing her chance to deal with. The root cause of her intimacy issues was likely a mistake. When Shannon Harper was born in Nineteen seventy seven? It seemed to have little effect on twenty-three-year-old Wanda's interest in the marital bed. Tony wasn't too bothered after all the time. Wanda gave birth. For the second time he had already found sexual fulfillment outside of his wife when WanNa discovered her husband's extramarital affair. She reportedly threatened Tony's mistress with a gun. Tony calmed his wife down but when he arrived home later all of his clothes had been neatly folded and placed in boxes in the garage. In addition the locks to their home had been changed at that. Tony realized that WANNA had effectively declared the end of their marriage in nineteen eighty. The divorce was finalized. Twenty-six-year-old Wanda kept the House and one full custody of their two children. Tony was allowed weekend. Visits twice a month leaving the bulk of the parenting to Wanda. Fortunately Wanda thrived at being a single parent. Her mother Verna help out with the kids when she could allowing wanted to dust off the secretarial skills she'd learned in high school earning her own money and being the one to decide how it was spent was a new experience for Wanda one. She relished growing up. She'd always presented herself well now with her own money to spend. She had the ability to pay particular attention to her appearance. Wanda became meticulous in coordinating outfits and ensuring her hair and nails a source of pride. But it wasn't just her own appearance that WANNA controlled young. Shanna reflected her mother's fixation with appearances to the girl. Constantly stepped out of the House with beautifully maintained curls and freshly laundered dresses in other words. Shanna became her mother's miniature while she grew into a proper young lady. WanNa encourage chain to be an athletic young man. When Shane joined a local little league team WanNa made sure she and Shanna were always there to cheer him on. She even volunteered her daughter to join the mini cheerleading group. That appeared at the Games. It's here that want began to show which parts of her more conservative father's views had taken hold she was repelled by the thought of sex. Yes but clydes views about cheerleaders what they stood for and their uniforms. Didn't seem to bother Wanda at all. In fact Shanez toddler size steps into the world of cheerleading. Were just the beginning of Wanda's obsession with the sport coming up. Wanda's quest for a better life finally takes her away from Channel View. Hi there I really excited for you to check out the new podcast original daily quote. It's a fantastic. Two to three minute. Podcast meant to inspire uplift and motivate your day. Three hundred sixty five days a year daily quote is hosted by my good friend. Kate Leonard each day she shares a meaningful quote from history and gives you the context and meaning behind it. And Right now. I'm happy to share today's episode with you. The quote comes from Canadian singer. Songwriter poet and novelist Leonard Cohen. If you make it be sure to follow daily quote free on spotify or wherever you get your podcasts. Good morning and welcome to daily quote. A podcast original. I'm Kate Leonard. Today's quote is from the poet and singer. Leonard Cohen from his Song Anthem. He sings there is a crack in everything. That's how the light gets in Leonard. Cohen would have been the first to admit that life was far from perfect. There are flaws in everything. But it's precisely these imperfections that allow real beauty to shine through without the bad. We can't appreciate the good. We must continue to live and love knowing that the future will never quite work out exactly the way we plan but even so hope keeps us going by embracing our mistakes and looking at them as just another part of life. We can begin the hard work of doing better in the end. The light will fill the cracks and make our efforts more stunning than we can imagine. So instead of focusing on where you fall short of expectations try and find beauty to celebrate. Even when things go wrong there will be opportunities to improve. Cher love and make life worth living. We merely have to follow the light. Daily is a daily podcast. Follow on spotify to make it part of your morning routine and let it inform the rest of your day. Daily quote is a podcast original. If you're listening on spotify you can this quote with your friends on social by tapping the three dots in the top right corner of the episode. Page scrolling down to share and selecting your sharing option of choice. Remember you can find new paths to positively every day of the year followed daily quote free on spotify. Or wherever you get your podcasts. Now back to the story in nineteen eighty twenty six year old. Wanda Holloway was a newly single mother. Raising two young children. Though she'd easily found work is a secretary. She wasn't as financially stable as she had been with her ex husband. Tony Harper but that difficulty was easily dealt with not long after her. Divorce was finalized. Wanda began dating Gordon. Engelhardt CO owner of a company that supplied the booming oil industry forty four year. Old Gordon was impressively wealthy. He was older than Wanda but handsome. Adding to his positive traits. Gordon light taking Wanda too fancy restaurants. The only major problem was that he lived eighty miles east of channel view in Beaumont. Perhaps to make the drive less of a hardship. Gordon gifted his sweetheart with a brand-new Mazda. Rx seven though. They'd been dating less than a year. Maybe this generous gift held Sweden Wanda to the idea of a second marriage. Whatever the reason soon after in nineteen eighty one twenty-seven-year-old Wanda married Gordon. After THEIR WEDDING. Wanda packed up her things her children and prepared to leave. Channel View wants in Beaumont. The year old adjusted quickly to a role she'd previously enjoyed during her first marriage. That of a suburban. Stay at home mom. Her new husband was wealthy. Enough that wanted didn't need to pursue employment instead. She was able to devote more time to her children. She was also able to enjoy the fine jewelry and clothing allowance. Which Gordon lavished her as a result? Wanda's new life. Outside of channel view was largely blissful but Wanda wasn't destined to stay away from her hometown for long less than two years into her second marriage. The oil business took a hit. Gordon's business suffered terribly. And he found himself in financial distress around the same time. Gordon's elderly. Mother moved in with them here again. One does plans had been fouled. And that was unacceptable. Perhaps she saw Gordon's reversal of fortune as a betrayal of sorts. Whatever the reason WanNa began secretly planning to leave behind Gordon's back. She arranged for Shane and Shanna to transfer back into their channel view. School when Gordon finally caught wind of her plans she flatly told him that the marriage wasn't working. It seemed that Wanda had a selective interpretation of her vows. She would stay with Gordon for better for richer and only with the express promise that his mother maintained her distance in the absence of that. Wanda wouldn't wait for death. To part them she opted for divorce though he was blindsided. Gordon didn't fight her instead. He watched as she took her diamonds. Bundled her children into the Mazda. He bought her and drove all the way back home. Wanda was ready to start afresh. Twenty nine year old Wanda's fresh start included a new house in one thousand nine hundred eighty three using the money. She made from the sale of her first home. She bought herself a brick house. In one of channel views nicer subdivisions though the yards were largely plane and the homes relatively small. The neighborhood was about as opulent. Does channel view could be which suited Wanda. Just fine upon settling in. She enrolled her children in Channel View Christian Academy there. She hoped they'd enjoy a more immersive religious education to complement their attendance at their weekly Baptist services beyond school. The children worked hard at their extracurriculars. Shane played several sports and was a member of the school band like his sister. He also took piano lessons. This being Texas in the Nineteen Eighties. Shannon stuck to more traditionally gendered activities. Like dance and gymnastics in Nineteen ninety-five professor. Tom W rice from the University of Iowa and Diane L. Coats from the University of Vermont published an article looking at the evolution of gender roles in the southern United States. Their research revealed that people in the south were more likely to hold conservative views when it came to gender rice and coats suggested that these southern Belle myth played a large role in shaping. The social view of women in states like Texas despite channel views lower socioeconomic makeup. They had similar expectations about the types of roles. There little girls would assume in this regard. At least Wanda emulated her neighbors. She enrolled her daughter in dance and gymnastics. No questions asked another traditional concept Wanda was fond of was the close relationship between mother and daughter though she loved her son wanted considered her daughter a best friend. As such attending Shannon's activities seems to have been a higher priority for her whether enjoying a dance routine or clenching her fists with nerves as she watched her little girl drill gymnastics maneuvers. Wanda was loath to miss a single minute. It was during these long hours spent watching over her daughter's athletic pursuits that want to met Verna. Heath vernice daughter amber was the same age as Shanna and the two girls had similar interests. Since the two mothers existed in a similar orbit they became if not friends than at least helpful acquaintances. Both mothers wanted the very best for their children and that meant juggling their own responsibilities with the commitments of their daughters. Verna was close by to help with the Carpool when Wanda had to be at work early and similarly WanNa lend a hand when verners. Fourth Child was born in addition to making new friends. Thirty two year old Wanda also started searching for husband number three in one thousand nine hundred eighty six. Cd Holloway became the new object of her affection. The paramedic church CD was the choirmaster and Wanda was his organised. Like Wanda's second husband see owned a successful company involved in the Texas oil business. Not only was he. A man of industry CD also came from money. Every member of his family drove Lincoln town cars. It was practically a tradition one. That Wanda was no doubt eager to partake in. In addition while Gordon's finances had been easily rocked. Cd's wealth was more secure. Thanks to his family connections. This might have helped Wanda feel more secure. In the relationship CDs finances might have also helped her overlook the fact that he was twenty years her senior. Whatever the reason. Cd and Wanda got married. The same year they met since it was his fourth marriage and her third. The wedding was in understated affair. Neither of them feeling a need for much pomp and circumstance. After the nuptials the couple was ready to begin their life together according to friends. One two thought this meant moving out of channel view and into the exclusive Houston neighborhood of riverview but fate conspired to once again keep Wanda firmly attached to her hometown instead of moving his new family to Houston. Cd opted for the small town. Familiarity of channel view as a result instead of the glistening lights of the city was going to have to make do with the occasional time gas flare from oil refineries though she hadn't upgraded her living arrangements in quite the way she expected. Wanda still made the best of the situation. After all she had a wealthy husband a support network around her. And she didn't need to work so once again. Wanda issued a career choosing instead to focus on decorating her home running her household and expanding her and Shanez wardrobes with little else to distract her Wanda had turned her attention to achieving a longtime goal turning her daughter into a cheerleader. Given what we know about Wanda it seems fair to call her a narcissistic parent. According to Dr Joseph Burgo a narcissistic parent is one. Who FEELS THAT? He or she has not achieved what she wanted in their own life. Something they interpret as a failure thus by making their child into a winner the Perez seeking to fulfill their own goals writing for Texas monthly nineteen. Ninety-one Mimi swartz observed that in Channel View. Most parents learn to keep their modest dreams in check. Knowing that the likelihood of them coming true was slim these dreams so often unfulfilled would be passed along their children with the knowledge that they might never be achieved but Wanda who had already reached for and achieved more than many channel natives dared to consider wasn't content to let her aspirations stop with her just because she was never on. The drill team didn't mean her daughter had to suffer the same fate. In fact Wanda would do anything to make sure that Shanna succeeded where she hadn't up next. Wanda's does quest turns into an obsession now back to the story in the late nineteen eighties. One Holloway was a woman on a mission. She already achieved financial stability with her marriage to her third husband. See The Holloway. Now that she had her more superficial comforts finally taking care of she could focus entirely on her daughter. Shanna like many young girls growing up in the south. Shanna had been taking dance and gymnastics classes. Now with Middle-school tryouts nearing WANNA began to get more serious about her daughter's cheerleading prospects not content to simply watch from the sidelines. She decided to get more hands on. Verna heath whose daughter amber was in the same gymnastics classes. Shanna noticed that one seemed to have a particular fascination with ambers progress she would use amber as a benchmark for her own daughter's abilities standing to the side of the floor. Wanda would watch both girls. Then ask their coach why. Shanna was falling behind. Whatever the coaches response. Wanda wasn't satisfied to make sure. Shanna kept improving. Wanda set up a stage in the family garage with mirrors and lighting position. Just so Shanna had everything she needed to practice and Wanda made sure she did. Just that even Shanez homework took a back seat to the practice sessions. Things got to a point where Wanda would sometimes finish her daughter's assignments just to give her more time to perfect her technique but one likely believed that all of the extra work would be worth it. Cheerleading success was just around the corner even if it required some unorthodox measures in nineteen eighty eight at the end of fifth grade. Eleven year old. Shanna had to say goodbye to her friends. At Channel View Christian Academy. This was because in order to be eligible for the seventh grade cheerleading squad at Alice Johnson. Middle School girls had to try out in sixth grade. So if Wanda wanted Shanna have her shot at the squad. She had to switch schools amber. He's on the other hand. Stayed behind at Channel View Christian to Wanda. This meant that China's biggest competition was no longer in the running however halfway through the school year Verna Heath approached Alice Johnson. Middle School to let them know that her daughter would be joining the seventh grade. Intake the following fall because she was in line to be a part of the student body. The school agreed that it was only fair that amber be allowed to try out with the rest of the girls in March. Though this wasn't how had planned things she didn't let it concern her after all her father taught her. That hard work paid off. And no one worked harder for this then Shanna. But unfortunately for Wanda Cheerleader. Tryouts weren't decided on hard work and talent alone. Here's how the tryouts cheerleaders worked in Channel View. The group of girls would audition in front of a panel of college cheerleaders and the entire student body. Then the panel would select six standouts from the general tryouts and this is where things got messy instead of the panel also choosing the cheerleading squad from amongst the six finalists the winners were decided by popular. Vote to that end. The six tryout finalists were encouraged to spend time in the halls of their middle school campaigning for votes from their peers. In essence the ultimate outcome of the cheerleader tryouts came down to a popularity contest to Wanda Holloway. Securing her daughter's place on the team might have been her way of ensuring that Shanna was an automatic part of the in crowd for the rest of her life. This was something Wanda herself had never achieved but just as she longed to be popular in High School. One projected those same hopes onto her daughter. She wanted Shanna to be popular. She wanted her to be liked. However a study conducted by Dr Mitch. Princeton suggests that popularity and being liked. Don't always go hand in hand especially in middle school. Dr Princeton Study revealed that the students everyone knows as the popular kids were often disliked by their peers. Their looks athletic. Ability or membership to an exclusive squad may have designated them as part of the in crowd. But that didn't mean the student body actually liked those kids still. It seemed like nothing would dissuade Wanda from achieving this dream for her daughter. The competition was stiff but she was up for the challenge. When the big day came Wanda Holloway. Very Heath and many other mothers sat in the stands to watch their daughter's perform for the school and judges they carried encouraging signs and called out cheers of their own. When the tryouts were over both Shannon and amber were selected as finalists. Shanna hadn't performed as well as amber. Who was capable of more complicated tumbling exercises but from here? Everything came down to the results of the vote. This meant that it was anyone's game. The rules of the campaign allowed the girls and their parents to come to the school to pass out flyers and hang posters. Though she was the stronger competitor athletically amber and her mother weren't leaving anything to chance to sweeten the odds in their favor. They decided to hand out. Heath brand candy bars. Not only were. The young teenage voters excited for sugary hit between classes ambers name was built right into the packaging heath on the day the votes were cast. The hopeful cheerleaders and their parents were invited to stay behind at Alice. Johnson Middle School after the final bell. The ballots cast on scantron forms. Were Fed into a computer girls on the current squad were given the task of sharing the winning names with the rest of the group. Shanna amber and their mothers waited anxiously in an empty classroom. Finally the moment of truth was at hand the cheerleaders walked in with two names to announce and when all was said and done one does daughter didn't make the cut amber heath did to Shanna. That was okay but for Wanda. It was a disaster. All of her hard work her planning all the time. Sacrificed had come to nothing after stewing over the outcome of the tryouts thirty four year. Old Wanda decided that it was simply unacceptable. I she demanded to know the full results of the election. More specifically how had Shanna fared in relation to the winner for some reason the school's principal indulged Wanda's obsession and told her that Shanna had come third though it hadn't been close? That was all the information wanted and needed for step two of her plan. After hearing the results she requested a private meeting with the Channel View. School board behind closed doors. Want argued that the tryout process hadn't been fair she'd studied the bylaws. Which did that two girls from Cobb elementary where Shannon was enrolled would be selected? To be in the squad. Amber didn't attend Cobb elementary in light of this Wanda had a simple request. Allow the girl who had come in third place her daughter to join the cheerleading squad. In addition to the two elected girls though the board agreed with Wanda's logic in theory they opted not to grant her request who knows perhaps granting too many girls. The status of cheerleader would cause complete social anarchy in the small town. Whatever their reason. Shanna would not be joining the seventh grade squad that coming fall the school board did make one concession. Though going forward only students who were enrolled in the eligible elementary schools would be allowed to compete for spots on the squad. This was of little use to Wanda and she left the meeting. Feeling furious in channel view secret meetings were difficult to keep quiet and it wasn't long before word had spread of Wanda's audience with the school board. The News didn't seem to surprise. Many around town was known to be friendly and quiet but people also reported that she seemed to feel that she was better than everyone around her. Perhaps it was the immaculate way. She presented herself or her habit of trading up on her husband's whatever. The reason Wanda had something of an image problem to those around her. She had an embarrassment of riches a beautifully furnished house. A doting husband to loving children but still. She wanted more and in the eyes of her community. That was her biggest flaw. Either Wanda was oblivious to what her neighbors thought of her or perhaps she was impervious either way. It didn't matter what anyone else thought. She had one goal in mind to turn her daughter into a cheerleader. In the past when things hadn't gone her way wanted had opted to abandon the game altogether and start afresh but this time she was left with few options if she wanted Shannon to be a cheerleader she would have to stay Alice Johnson middle school and simply try out again. The following year Wanda decided that they would train harder. Do Better and win that popular vote. There was no other choice. Next time. Wanda would win. Thanks again for tuning into female criminals. We'll be back next week with part. Two of Wanda story will follow Wanda as she prepares her daughter to be a cheerleader. And find out what happens when another woman stands in her way for more information on Wanda Holloway amongst the many sources we used. We found love deadly love by an McDonald mayor and the cheerleader murder. Plot by MIMI swartz extremely helpful to our research. You can find all episodes of female criminals. And all other podcast originals. For Free on spotify not only does spotify already. Have all of your favorite music? But now spotify is making it easy for you to enjoy all of your favorite podcast originals like female criminals for free from your phone desktop or smart speaker to stream female criminals on spotify just the APP and type female criminals in the search bar and don't forget to follow us on facebook and Instagram at podcast and twitter at podcast network. We'll see you. Next time female criminals was created by Max Cutler and is a podcast studios original executive producers. Include Max and Ron Cutler sound designed by J Cohen with production assistance by Ron Shapiro Carly Madden and Aaron Larson. This episode of Female Criminals was written by Joel Callan with writing assistance by Abigail Cannon. I'm Vanessa Richardson Remember. You can find new paths to positively every day of the year followed daily quote free on spotify. Or wherever. You get your podcasts.

Tony Wanda Wanda Holloway Channel View Shanna amber WanNa Wanda Cheerleader spotify Tony Old Gordon Tony Harper High School Texas Verna Anthony Shane Channel View Christian Academy oil refineries Shannon Clyde Vanessa Richardson facebook
UFC Fight Island 7: Holloway vs. Kattar Preview Show

The MMA Hour with Ariel Helwani

31:01 min | 5 months ago

UFC Fight Island 7: Holloway vs. Kattar Preview Show

"Support for this episode comes from ziprecruiter new year. Means new hires but finding the right fit for your business comes with a unique set of challenges challenges. The ziprecruiter can help you. Conquer ziprecruiter dot com slash. Vox makes it easy for you to find the perfect candidates for your open jobs with one click posting to hundreds of jobsites active recruitment and more you can try ziprecruiter for free at ziprecruiter dot com slash box. That's ziprecruiter dot com slash. V x ziprecruiter. The smartest way to hire the you kinda like this guy. But when you can't decide between the filet o. Fish or the big mac and he says luggage above. Thank you you definitely mike. This guy meal. Get it at mcdonald's when you get to of your face for two six bucks anytime only practice. Energy-efficient may very single item regular price. You're listening to the. Vox media on your network at the. Us's first event of twenty twenty one goes down tomorrow afternoon on file with a big time main event at one hundred forty five pounds the first mixed martial arts main event in the new eddie hot arena and abu dhabi and the first mixed martial arts main event to be broadcast on abc network with a rich history in the combat sports world as we welcome you to the ufc fight islands. Seven preview show here on fighting dot com. I m my cac being in abu dhabi by jose young's and the principal eternity. Alex candidate gentlemen a lot to like about this card. A lot of interesting story lines. But jose let us begin with the main event. Max holloway is gonna compete in his first title fight since that crazy win over. Ricardo lamas that you have c. One ninety nine he takes the surging new englander cavin cater. This is the fight everybody wanted. This is the fight calvin cater wanted. Surly doesn't seem to be the fight. That max holloway wanted at first but he seems pretty damn excited about it. Now as you've heard and had probably seen these face offs so now that we're less than twenty four hours from this one. Jose what do you think of this piece of business to cap off the first event. Twenty twenty one for the ufc. I mean it's a great man in memphis especially for the abc Max has never been in a bar. Fake allocators obviously has has looked like a world beater as of late knocked out a who's who featherweight and i think A win here. I don't i don't know if it gets him a title fight. He might have he might have to fight. Maybe one more especially because of beats out there and still floating around out there. But it's a he's he said it himself enough. No other way gone. He was. He was the most active featherweight in the top. Five in the usc so A win keeps that trend going. Win over max. Holloway was the number one ranked featherweight in the world candidate. You're headed that So yeah absolutely phenomenal. Fight for the debut at abc. I i don't want to say it's going to be fine of the night but it's going to be about five. I'll tell you that much aka. I think you and everybody else in the space knows how i feel about this matchup. I've been giddy from the get-go. I fight card aaron. Abc for the ufc and the sport of mixed martial arts. You'd be hard pressed to find a better match up to put on the poster. For this one right ak mike. I'm going to say it before you do. All the new england cartel the mayor a main event on abc. I show of first year. She frolo first. Ufc show of twenty. Twenty one i should have let you said Yes the new england cartel is being represented of course including kaban cater. Rob fon to. We may see main eventing later this year. Who knows but yeah. It's it's a big deal and As as i said they really. I don't think could've could've found a much better. Non title fight for this first. Abc show is just. It's two guys who are really good to the media. Really exciting fighters break stories. Max holloway a super fan favorite. Which i think if you can see you know anyone's reaction to the tubal canal ski losses are kind of tells you just how popular mac hollow is. He's somehow in losing. I think he's become even more popular people people. There's just really appeals. He's he's kind of cool sometimes. He's he's got a laid back. It is what it is style you know. I think that's going to play really well. Auden on national television so abc that is specifically because he's been around before and cater again. You know he like he's got that i hate to say it but you know. America loves that. Boston sports story don't they. They love that boston. Sports seen he's so representatives the massachusetts and new england. And and it'd be wins. It'll be a great story. He's a really nice guy really hard working. He's been the game for a long long long long long time. And it feels like many possible but overdue and he's really being rewarded for the efforts put forth in the last couple years taking all the tough fights including including findings on short notice. Jose there's been a lot said about where max holloway's head is at like. Is he over the two losses to book and especially the second fight july. He saying he feels like the champion. Saying you know things like eighty to ninety percent of people. Thought i won. That fight cater told me when we spoke a few weeks back. He thinks a chance. Holloway is looking past him. And if that's the case it's going to be a huge mistake and a long night for max holloway. And that's in every max as watched or read because throughout a lot of his interviews he is referenced calvin cater saying that had along along the way here so are you concerned at all where max's head might be heading into this thing or not at all. No not at all max. Holloway has won his fight. Iq is is is some of the best in all of a mixed martial arts and combat sports. He knows the task at hand At media day we talked about volkogonov ski. Brian say and this and that and he is solely focused on kalmykia. He's he doesn't even watch. Fight him so He didn't watch. Much calvin and all that. He was obviously aware of him. As the champion pacific colin was was tearing through the rest of the division while while he ran the top. But no max. Holloway is not taken calvin cater lightly whatsoever. Because he wants the bell back he feels like he's jeopardy wadsworth chip the only way you can continue to push towards getting either a fight against like especially if bri tailwinds They if max holloway. Be complicated and brian. As that's the fight to make is borrow takeovers. Is max holloway. Too so knack. Holloway is fully aware. That i think snell said it best. He's not fighting on this car but it just today today winning souls all your problems then. That's exactly how. Max holloway needs to view this fight like great. He grabbed max. He's he's doesn't have the belt he's not getting the he is not getting the black championship fight. Kid he's not. He's not doesn't have the next to name but if he doesn't win he can't get any closer to that so there is no part of my body. That feels like max. Holloway is taking this fight lightly. We talked about this on between the lengths aka. I think this is going to be a very big year for the featherweight division after. Let's be honest a pretty quiet twenty twenty. We got the title fight. We got our tegas win over the korean zombie. I'll even throw josh emmett. Beating chamber goes in there and then like jose reference to big win for cavin cater always twenty nine years of age. Still a young man. But he's heading into this fight. A loser of his last. Two fights caters a veteran. He's getting better than doing cartels. Enjoying this impressive surge. People are starting to recognize them. But i'm curious a win is obviously massive here cave cater winds. I kind of disagree with his. Next fight is absolutely for the belts. If holloway winds. Not out of the question especially brian. Ortega beats vol could ask you whatever that fight happened so to the winner goes the spoils ak but how far of a setback will this be in the championship. Conversation for the man who does not get his hand. Tomorrow it's funny. Because i i agree with you. I think caters sort of has The more obvious path. Like you said. I think regardless of who wins between ortega invoke nas cater wins especially in impressive fashion against holloway. He should get the shot. Yes the beat is out. There beat him but against the beats year van activity unforced kind of pushes him to the side for now and i'm sure he would he would he would say he should kesha get through him. I don't think he used to call shiny more and holloway. Yes ortega wins. Instant title shopper holloway. He dominated ortega in their first meeting. And so the rematch makes a lot of sense But if if bulky and there's almost no way they can book that rematch so how much a law sets whoever back really also depends again on if that Woken obstacle when gets books. And who wins it. I think the loss will be a little more damaging for cater. Actually surprised because holloway has the name. He's in that championship sphere. Where i think we know the you'll see loves to give title fights to Usually once wants to reach that level where you fought in holloway's first title fight not excuse me since july june twenty sixteen june july sixteen other way over four years. So he's he's of that slotting in no matter. What they've even guys like josie aldo. Donna cruz title off of losses. So i i think holly actually is in that sphere. Where he it won't hurt cater. Unfortunately i don't think it's fair but i think people will view it has hit as him sort of fail failing to pass this litmus test and show that he's ready to the next level i think you would put him like to fights away from getting back to two potential title shot i've accurately am leaning towards Cater being hurt more. If if you should lose on saturday like you've heard so much about this fight. So many more stories to look at when it when it comes to breaking these guys down. But let's get down to the nitty gritty gentlemen. Let's make our picks. Jose we begin with you. Who leaves eddie. Hot arena with the victory between max holloway and calvin cater in that big brain of yours. I have a feeling that i will be speaking with the winner. Max holloway after saturday night. And i think allocators awesome and i don't think it's i think one of those fights where we said it before like the loser gained. The loser is still a winner going to be one of those fires. I think he's going to have a very phenomenal. Showing i think is his his skill set. He brings matches very well. Max especially for an exciting fight. I just think matches the better fighter. I there is a legitimate argument. That max holloway won both fights against nevada and asking the second fight. The vast majority think he wins the first vice galkin the second fight. I'm pretty fifty fifty. I've watched it a few times. That i can't make my mind at the time watching it. Live wherever volkan ascii. But i've gone back and forth a lot. Since we're watching so think macs could very well be the best way in the world It's just unfortunate that a couple of judges do see it. That way against alexander volcanology But i think calvin cater is gonna isn't gonna lose any momentum in with the loss. I don't think he's gonna lose any rankings. I think he's going to get a lot of fans. And i think moving forward even loss. This is not the last time. Cavalcade is gonna headline of fight. And by no means. Do i ever see him. Not challenging for the title. I think he's a future title. Contender right now. Is the max. Oil aka know your prediction piece is out now on emi fighting dot com for those who would rather hear you speak and waxed. Poetically your pick on this program. The floor is yours sir. Who wins tomorrow. Yeah i gotta go holloway to these. I don't know he's at least one of the two best in the world and my is still So this it's on cater. Not just you know. He's not just fighting for our title here. He's fighting to break into that top. Two that top again. Some mace arguing. He's done enough already. He's he the results have been really impressive over the last few years. he's got he's got first round finishes. It gets really tough guys. So people think he's a top three other wait now. I've just based on talent and and what they you know the i test. I wouldn't blame them but for me. You have to take that spot. That's not a spot that you can just that you can just get based on fan opinion. And unless you're an awesome crazy you know ten fight win streak and you just don't get a chance to you know to face hallway. But he is getting that chance on saturday. So it's fun to speculate. You know and say and say yes this for sure. I i know for sure. This guy's ready to make that leap. I just can't do that yet. i was holloway. Has looks he looks so good and last Even the first fight which. I'm fairly committee lost. It's not like he got blown out. You know is might be this sort of thing. We're talking about where he doesn't watch fights And that might have cost him the first because it certainly didn't cost him the second fight. He looked very familiar with the hunter. Zander vulcanology was bring to the table and their rematch and like jose said a lot of people thought he won. It was a really close by and he did. He had the most damaging strikes the. That's that's a fact. But then he went on the system. That's around together so yeah. Lean towards hallway skill wise. I just don't see anyone. That's breath him. Other than vulcan off ski. So i. I'm not ready to pick against him yet. This is a tough one. Because max has the experience. He spotted nothing but title by for the past four years. Plus i love caters reference. About you know if we were in high school. I'd be the senior and he'd be the freshman like i just think that's just considering the age and just a good apps. Comparison but dc has famously said many times that there are levels to this game and some people lead on that when making their picks for this fight and calvin cater continues to get better use. Probably the mvp the featherweight division in two thousand twenty max. Ready cavern is ready. That face off earlier today was phenomenal. But there's one thing that sticks out to be in this fight. The not a lot of people are talking about a big narrative. Heading in is max. Holloway is the volume guy. he'll keep bringing that volume from start to finish but a big. Maybe even a bigger question is what happens when somebody else volume to him. When he faces fighters that land at a higher volume. He struggled volkan off ski. Not once but twice. Dustin pori brings that volume as well struggled against us. And even though max gets a lot of praise for being a volume guy caters of volume guy. Too and he's underrated in that sense plus. He's bigger than max which doesn't happen that often. And he's got the power advantage so while it is a tough pick. If you listened to the onto the next one thousand twenty one prediction show. I have no choice anyways. I'm doing it but i'm going with. I'm going with the new england cards. I'll go with calvin all get it done. We'll see how it goes. I just love the fight. I think. I think it's calvin time. I see that. Look in his eyes. I think he gets it done. It's a great fight though it's going to be really close either way but komeda events. It's finally happening gentleman. Carlos condit vs matt brown at one hundred and seventy pounds. I don't care if this fight was book ten years ago five years ago. It's book five years from now. My level of excitement is high no matter what so aka. We'll start through here especially after hearing. What the guys had to say at their media as what are your thoughts on this fight that we're going to finally see tomorrow night i'm thrilled. I'm thrilled this is. We've got to keep reminding people afternoon. Show guys are not a lot an evening shows usual. I'm thrilled because this is why you keep god. This is why when we saw some of the releases romero even at ucla for me like you want to have high level guys around in the so some someday. Sometimes these matches could materialize it. They're never gonna do in legends league but this is sort of one of those unofficial match ups that we would put in that bracket because wins and losses. They won't be on six fight. Losing streaks and i would love to see carlos condit and matt brown fight but as it is condit actually recently snapped. A losing streak was nice to see with a very very convincing performance. Wraparound unfortunately is coming off that lost bays but again like i said it doesn't matter this is a fight that people who who've been watching sport long time if i may have to if i told you my friend sort of phased out of the hardcore and make them if i told them by the way guys you know remember calls. Ken conduct killer matt brown. The fighting the saturday i. There's a lot of people who tune it again. It'd be on. Abc you could buy that. This definitely a lot of people who think a lot of casual interest. I'm not saying either guy was ever like the biggest mainstream draw but there is an audience of fans who don't quite keep up the product that they used to who will come back with this fight. Stylistically it is just a dream. It's a dream. It is no more matching up with grapplers and submission specialist. I don't know why we had that little stretch there with that was happening. No one wants to see that. We have two guys who yes i know. They're both well rounded fighters but they wanna stand and fight they want. They want to go for that fight of the night. Bonus that performance bonus so awesome awesome komeda event really really great booking by the speaker. Jose what do you think of this fight. Probably rules like you said it would. It doesn't matter when this facebook. This fight absolutely rules I i was sold on this fight when there's always Nine hours solo this fight when they were supposed to fight on usc on fox. I can't even remember the number. It was supposed to be just or does report. A just engage card in in In glendale arizona And i'm sold on this in two thousand twenty one all the way out here in abu dhabi. I wish it was five rounds. But i don't think this is gonna go five rounds caught my Mad brown in his words. He cannot envision a scenario where he does dominate. Carl's which is you love to hear you love to hear any fighter. That's common especially if either of matt browns caliber. Who seen everything carl's disagrees. He says i'm going to f- matt brown. I'm gonna finish matt brown. I tend to agree with carl. Carl's khan he's lost a higher competition than brown. I think he's just looked better than map brown throughout his career. Matt brown has been an absolutely phenomenal fight. He's one of the best welterweight of all time. He's one of the most more unheralded fighters hundred seventy pounds because he's fought a who's who at that vision harles conde is i. One of the fibrous welter was ever stepped into the ucla octagon an and he beat. Robbie lawler i don't care what anyone else said robbie lawler so I think carl's conduct beats matt brown I'm not confident whatsoever. I think he has more tools. Better array of striking a better way array of submission. We've seen matt brown get had kicked. We see matt brown. Guess omitted matt. Brandon also knocked down amid a lot of guys too. I just think it's carlos condit right now. Odds last finest contract is gonna wanna put on a good showing. Matt brown's talking about retirement right now i think in the year lord two thousand twenty one. Carl's a better fighter. The matt brown and this fight rules. This is a very special fighting in you in you sort of touch on jose because regardless of how plays out tomorrow afternoon this could be the last time we see either of these guys on the ufc map around like you said. He's been talking about retirement. Something about often concerns with term damage even referenced. Our own. Steve morocco's piece on spencer fisher when discussing that on last fight of his deal. So this is definitely something to keep an eye on interesting story heading in but i was as going with the natural born killer aka or you with them or are you picking map brown. Yeah i mean going across content sort of for the same reasons i picked hallway. I just feel like when you know. We've we've seen both guys a lot there this combined over forty. Ufc fights so we know we're getting from them. And i do think content is the higher level fighter. He is the better stricter of the stays on the feet again. Even even on the ground. I would i would see them that being a little more of a stalemate so so for me. It's condit all the way. I do wish again at like jose said that. This was a five rounder. I think it's one of those fights. Because i think it's going to go the distance so i am extent. That's sorta how i differ in my prediction. I think it'd be conduct by decision. And i think we'll be wanting the slugging it out until the end and we'll be one of those things that man should be. There should be two more around. You know should should've been a fight main event or someday in the future Ufc will realize that. It's you know it's possible to have five round calming events especially when when is a fun match this one so Yeah i noticed him matt brown again be the most Tenured Where i believe he is setting the record when he walks in the cage on saturday. For the most. You've see welterweight appearances And he's had a hell of a career and what a great moment it would be if we did see. Maybe not a dual retirement but like if he's a free agent to leave it brown size to retire for good if that is the last time we people guys neo. See what a nice sentimental moment that would be and again another cool thing that they could say happened on the first you've c. Show on abc. So i'm hoping that doesn't happen. You know part of me. I'm hoping the guys have good health and You know if they wanna retire. That's great but as a fan. I still want to see the guys fight more. And if that means going into the pf l. or belts or a rise in some of that. I i'd be all for that but we have ourselves a moment on saturday. Yeah i love the heat between these two guys at this point in their careers. I think it's great. But i'm gonna lean condit as well just because i think he's just got better movement overall. I think he's getting used that in this fight. And who knows maybe we. Maybe we see for the first time ever like a patient methodical map brown. I don't think we will. But i think it's more likely that matt wins is going to catch up with the big shot early. That absolutely could happen. But i feel like condit's going to stick and move a bit more. He'll fight not not a safe fight but a much more technical fight Brown typically killer be killed kind of a guy. We love that about him. But i think i'm going to leave. Carl carl's tron close decision. He gets done. This is obviously a really deep card. Especially in the main card we got the return of santiago pods a knee. Be oh take it on leveraging. Leon i fights as november two thousand eighteen for positive under the radar story for sure heading into tomorrow jose. Let me just ask you real quick. Wha positive health issues well documented. The guy's gone through hell and back to get to this point to get back into the octagon when he hit the scales. How did he look. He looks like he had a mr beat He came in one. Seventy one was the last one away but it's not like he went down all the way to the wire. I waited with thirty minutes left. He was all smiles. He seems genuinely happy to be doing media at the media day. He didn't seem to care who he was fighting. He said he would have fought for has gone if they'd offered him so. Yeah he's in a good place right now He didn't look sucked out. Didn't look like he was in any sort rough shape whatsoever. So i don't know what look like when he steps into the octagon that remains to be seen. Because i think we're going ring. Rust affects certain people differently than others especially people that that had a bone infection but in terms of how looked on the scale. It looks like he has a mississippi. He was absolutely all smiles For me it was. This was this afternoon for us in the morning. Yeah he was in. He looked like he was incredible shape and we were kind of saying oh always coming in last forever. Think i think he. He chose to come last he was. He's incredible shape and then at the staredown said he had a nice little shoutout to dig. Maradonna are of course and Him and the unfurled flags so his he looks literally again. And if anyone from reading the stories but we've gone through he literally looks like a man with a new lease on life So we could see him fighting with Vive on saturday. Yeah i think if he's even a piece of what he was before he knew. Like after the neil magny win. Thank yous them. One seventy needs needs some rubin right now and i think he could be a very interesting piece to this puzzle. That's a great fight at the return of joaquim buckley. The knock out of the year man against a lesser de chirico undefeated prospects. Traffic light a trap. Or i'm thinking buckley but that trap fight. I think your co is is better than three. He's i think he's better than people think. I am picking ugly win. But i don't know i don't know if it's a walkover like the massacres thing definitely not a walk over to share go is absurdly tough by walking around and so i didn't get to ask him because buckley didn't really seem like you wanted to be doing much media media david once again be like fighting a guy who just continues to be there in front of you so i'm very jersey. A fighter of walking buckley's power. Find a guy who could take absurd amount of damage in lsu to jericho and have really good counterpuncher too which is going to make pretty interesting But i i love the the main card opener between puna soriano indus- goto door which good god almighty undefeated prospects. That is a crazy. But it's under the radar time. Jose before you let you catch some z's on this crazy day on fight fight seven eve. What's the fight on this car. That has you excited that. Nobody's really talking about The soriano fight dusko door. Rules is because i love when undefeated fighters matchup industrial to door which is low key a very fascinating individual. Because he's doing his thesis right now In serbia. And when. I asked him about it he said no comment doesn't want to talk about it. Carl saliba just top is going to be a fun fi. Just a tough as obviously from A part of the world. That's kind of taken the world by storm right now in the australia new zealand in australia new zealand. 'cause fleet bay was he. He wasn't a massive star coming out of fight island but for people who are here on site it. A very interesting Post fight press comes like he'd be i believe he'd be your decastro castro phenomena stake and they had a heat go into that fight a lot of people pick to castro to win philippi one and then he called out some guys. I don't know if he didn't get the fighting wanted to but he i think he used his mic time. Well so i remember leaving that press conference looking forward to his next fight not that not because i thought he was a world champion or a world beater but just because he he gets it like you know when you interview guys. They just get it. They know how to use their fight time. They use their mike time. They know how to get people interested in their fight and he just especially our gamay crews He translated a lot of what he was saying. It just made me interested in. See him watch him fight again. Uh very interested in carlos. Felipe bay as wide as fun fights alvarez as one of the more interesting interviews. We'll candidates own like i'm sure aka lee will save in a mellow actually made wait. So that's the first win for her. I think still look for i. If i'm not mistaken so Not the deepest card in terms of like fights that jump out of the Jump off the page but fights really pick one. I'm going to leave a specific one for ak the featured prelims fight this widening. Say because he's talking about this man for probably more than anyone else. I've ever met So i'm gonna go the carlos. Felipe bay just tough. Fight for the prelims from my pick for fights to circle aka. Put it on a tee for you go ahead. I talked about phil hawes phil. Haase's brother hates me. Apparently for though he hates them so much that he came on screen and muted. Ak's mike no low. Hello hey he's back. he's bad on my end. I've seen on my sorrow saying someone. Claiming i believed to be ilha's brother Nbn was not happy with me saying that. H-has has taken taken like such a such a difficult unlikely road to the c. had so many stops and starts with the ultimate fighter in make do. There didn't make it to contender series but none of that matters still houses brothers right. None of that matters. You had an incredible debut in his in twenty. Three incredible you believe was under twenty seconds. I think he finished so that was free. So yes phil hawes. Nazar dina involve a great great again. Like i said about about the Dahir co fight. People don't limavady want him evolve as excited after up as much as deserving as is the featured prelims watt. I actually am the two fights. I did also want talk about. Jose picks felipe bay. Topo which i agree. And i love they. Wait in is a big boy. Heavyweights guys aren't these aren't little leap. A to sixty four. Taft to sixty five. That's what we like to see in the heavyweight division. I really the one. That's really really flying under the radar as a vodka. And i think the wada because his his you'll see results so far have been a little uneven. People are kind of forgetting. He was putting in work and katz. W he's a really exciting fighter. He just beat a boubacar nearby combat. It was actually pretty highly touted prospects. You'd be inside of around in russia. So that was that was a huge and then lost aleeging. No shame analogy lang's Obviously a top a welterweight. And danny roberts decision very good fight. So i like that. And i'm eve is is a guy who don't be surprised if we're hearing him in the welterweight title picture in twenty. Maybe not this year but in two thousand twenty two. it's it's a very stack division. He's a really good fighter. He does need signature when he. He's he's beaten guys around his love below his level in the but i think vodka's the right match for him right now so i like guys and again same was the vodkas vodka can go on a run and i think people will it almost be like a yamba mehovic thing. It's like coming from cass. W in having a bit of a slow start and then is holy cow. This guy's like really talented and could be again futures contender himself so that one no. Nobody's talking about it and could be one of the better fights saturday night. I'm going. I'm going to kind of piggyback off. Ya que with the return fill. Ha's i mean the nocco. To fifty four is and eighteen seconds. The fight was over as violence. He's got himself a step up to nasseredine has won six in a row fascinating. Fight line very closely. The oddsmakers have i'm office is plus one thirty underdog right now so vegas is looking at it as a very close fight. I'm looking at it very close fight. We'll see how phil house can follow up his highlight reel stoppages from two thousand and twenty but it all goes down tomorrow just a reminder once again and start at noon eastern standard time on espn plus in the us three pm eastern standard time main card simulcast on espn plus an abc very cool. We'll have our prefight show. Qna like we did last month. We introduce that you guys are taken it. We had fun with it. That's gonna go down eleven thirty. Am eastern time. We'll chat with all of you. Answer questions get one. Fired up for the band jose. Of course we'll have all the backstage interviews. The winners press conferences etc. I have a special guest lined up for the post fight show tomorrow night so stay tuned for that and with that said we put a bow on our first preview. Show of the new year for jose. Youngs get some sleep my man. Alex kelly i mike. Thank you all for watching. We'll see you tomorrow afternoon. You're listening to fox media podcast network.

max holloway holloway calvin Holloway matt brown abc jose new england max Jose ortega eddie hot arena abc network jose young Carlos condit Ricardo lamas ak mike Rob fon Abc
The Devil in Disguise

Dateline NBC

41:45 min | 1 year ago

The Devil in Disguise

"And it was just such a shock she thought he was killed in spotty was poisoned. It's hard to even imagine that someone could be so evil in this world we like to think that we can tell the difference between good and evil the religion questions and then a place called Angel Gate Academy he just loved frank grew up in rural Illinois one of six kids he played football love baseball his sisters I just want you know what I have I want to give frank gave a lot did a lot of good in his life until he ran across another that job he loved working with the kids Angel Gate was run by the California National Guard from its base in San Luis Obispo on California's central coast after the divorce frank was at Lucent's different jobs different relationships he felt as if he were floundering until he found I ooh but sometimes evil puts on a mask and comes to life's party as its opposite a loved one a friend someone we think we for a successful life he also found that thrilling to take these city kids kayaking or camping or just hang out by the ocean which many of them need Frank Rodriguez a guy who went looking for troubled souls he was very drawn towards people that were broken. Even though I don't have a lot can help and by the time we figure out that we're wrong it's too late and so with that in mind it was a military academy near city kids who were headed in the wrong direction learned order discipline and respect how was I zoll who was not just troubled or broken but pure evil time that he married a girl but that line about the see being jealous mistress is true his first wife was tired of him traveling Carmen and surely remember most that he loved kidding around with his siblings dry sense of humor it say something and you're not sure if you're supposed to laugh at it but he was joking God was going to give him signs of what was good for his life and then one day at Church frank ran into a woman he worked with at Angel Gate with the kids frank was awesome when the kids away was frank supervisor and friend I never met a person that was I had never even seen it also left him wanting kids of his own I remember him talking a lot about he wanted to have kids I mean the Tuesday after Labor Day two thousand frank wanted to earn some extra money and thanks met someone her name was Angelina Morale's she had also been in the military she was as devout Christian as frank you know funny jokes and little tricks and things pranksters or the word I'm going for after high school frank joined the navy it was around that all over being gone for six months at a time after he got out he was really kind of a lost soul he just really didn't know what he wanted to do and then she ended up leaving him anyway Frank Rodriguez was dead what had happened the frank a warning from his wife up dad when frank loved working with kids was offered a teaching job in Los Angeles Frank's life seemed to be coming together of marriage Franks new bride Angelina found him unconscious on their bedroom floor and called for help it was too late unwanted kids really bad he wanted to start a family whose sister's say frank thought his faith would guide him there he was big into believing that roll daughter named autumn so instant family I liked frank frank was a really good guy seemed very down to earth and good for her the way he had always prayed that it would at least that's how it seemed when was the last time you saw frank I saw frank greeted chaperone a group of new students on their way to Angel Gate road with them on a bus from La to San Luis Obispo where he brighi was finally coming into his own a new bride a new family a new job but then at three am after just five months frank left behind a widow and a nine year old stepdaughter to whom frank had become very close hundred dollar reactive frank dying she was devastated that she was also very confused she wasn't the only one confused the coroner's office found no obvious cause of death natural or unknown some better around the kids if they were acting out he would kind of like get say things to get them to we met up with his old friend and boss Chan how do you look frank looked absolutely terrible four days later he called mom to tell her that he had met this woman Angelina and that she was his soulmate and my mom our mom was excited oh my goodness she called me up she was so excited seemed very good for her come fuller is autumn's dad and Angelina Zanex usually guy in your position not too crazy about the husband county sheriff's Homicide Detective Brian Stein Wand says his job was just to keep moving forward we were dependent upon what the corner their romance was a whirlwind baby here the excitement about this new love in this video that Angelina shot do come after him with frank was different at the wedding frank vowed to be a good husband and he made a promise to autumn to be a great st the Fragrance Angelina had a lot to tell the detectives about Frank's final days about what she thought had happened to him and why Frank Rodriguez was dead his family was stunned he'd been a healthy man my mother called me after Angelina called her -tural no heart attack no trauma nothing toxicology tests found a little vicodin and frank system but not enough to kill anyone his family right marry you youtube baby they met in February and married in April Angelina had a nine Angelina now told detectives she didn't believe it had been the stomach flu at all she thought that something happened to frank on that trip to Angel Gate for second did it ever in my mind that he would endanger they come up and asked a lot of questions you're in the crosshairs across this horrified thank you believe as a possibility that your husband was who could possibly want to do him on he was at a loss especially his wife Angelina who seemed to be groping for answers trying to make sense of what happened to frank she called on the day that frank died and mom said she lost it she started screaming and the slammed the phone it was it was horrified he was only forty one right thing plus he kind of like used me as a bad guy good cup exactly frank was always a good cop as rewarding as it was for frank to help his students learn skills she was worried that frank who was so trusting wouldn't be safe I mean he looks good everybody now he's very me almost every day to talk about it she thought he was killed and she thought he was poisoned the ideas seemed on the face of it crazy the office was doing what they would find or wouldn't find but in the meantime you can't stop investigating a few days after Frank's death they spoke with Angelina Frank became convinced a person working at Angel Gate was engaged in inappropriate behavior with some of the students Angela about her suspicions here because we understand there's a pup you have some information believe is a possibility that your husband was I die Ena said she'd reported the man to authorities and he now had a motive to hurt her or frank this person has took him to the Er the doctor said all frank needed was rest and fluids and he'd get better but two days later frank was debt and we're going to start from the Angelina said that after his trip on the bus Angel Gate Frank got sick with what they both thought at first was want to kill Frank I just didn't know what to think it was just such a shock homicide detectives were called in even though there was zero evidence of a homicide yeah I mean despite her fears Angelina said that night when frank returned from Angel Gate he didn't Angelina then said why she was afraid it turned out that when she and frank work together an angel gate they became involved in something now she wondered was there something in that gatorade did that friendly welcome hide something much more sinister because the man I was beyond mad I can't even describe how angry I was from friend to any chance that this was going to turn out not to be a murder and that would frank died Eva's either natural causes or food poisoning or something like that absolutely absolutely Ellie only Sergeant Holloway Chad Holloway Frank's former boss Frank's friend good autumn put a teddy bear in ranks often she she was a sweet little girl she really was that last goodbye was a struggle for frank's family comic flu like very one every hour but then frank got so sick that Angelina Salinas said had offered Frank Food and drank was the same man Angelina had accused the same man she said had threatened Frank Months Jill gate to check out angelenos unsettling story that she had accused Frank's friend Chad Holloway of misconduct with students Ten days after Frank Rodriguez died he was honored like a fallen soldier at the military cemetery in Riverside California it was very specifically not to go back Angel Gate before he went when you say we aren't used by said hard to come out here for the funeral Angelina daughter autumn who was in the house when Frank Dodd said goodbye in a way only child we do not drop the perfect some things just aren't adding up you leaders possibility that you're not even intially dangerous various you pray together on the program only gone and you situation the situations Angelina said she we're trying to find answers they drove two hundred miles north to the Rolling Hills and Small Town charm of San Luis Obispo to eat didn't notice Chad talking with frank but he did remember how upset Chad was about Angelina charges Chad was beside himself. Suspect did you say you would like to put your gun to the head of the person that was doing this something to that effect idea uh-huh my job I will tell them he looked at frank he went like this and wins against him had been thoroughly investigated by local law enforcement and found to be completely baseless but the detectives also was under the impression before they talked to me that they were so convinced I did this that they had stopped at the sheriff's department had basically told them to prepare to book or instructor can do to a kid under his or her tutelage or control yes and it's I have never seen him that angry Jello is pretty angry about that accusation and express some people that he would like to it was very hard on mom she did go into deep depression after that as the people who loved him more detectives with The Los Angeles Sheriff's department in our opinion of who had access to Frank Richard Ranjan worked at Angel Gate at the time Ron's on told police he ooh Angelina told detectives she had urged frank not to chaperone those students and alive been that scared scared and he admitted angry I was beyond Matt is I I can't even describe how angry I was did you say you would like to put your gun to the head of the person that was doing this to you and bullets royer something to that effect so one of the worst things to be accused of if you didn't do that was probably the a new a false allegation can still be a very good motive for murder that's one of the worst things that a teacher earlier usually her husband died the Chad was furious over that and that all of it might be the reason behind francs unexplained death they were asking us he what that killed frank investigators have a secret mission for Sergeant Holloway and he would never have followed through when you said that you wanted to think a gun and put it to the head of the person who made those accusations against you me you're in the crosshairs and crosshairs before they ever met Chad detectives already learned something important that the misconduct allegation deal very harshly with whoever had done that to him yeah he was initially very angry about it yes area of to kill who knows we don't know Chad Holloway very well yet we aw clearly someone was lying the question was who I heard curious thing that had ever happened to me in life I I've been war as in Desert Storm a lot of things happened in combat I had never the story hold onto your seats. The thing about Pam is the chart-topping podcast series from dateline and Keith Morrison this is drain starring a strange story and a career strange story things became personal all episodes are available now wherever and suddenly Angelina Rodriguez quickly shared her suspicions with detectives that Frank had been poisoned by a former CO worker who carried a grudge who was close to frank including his new wife you talk to other people about Franken Angelique is marriage yes and are you get your podcasts join us for the ride on the thing about pan we find some interesting things out for one thing frank was angelenos fourth husband but not necessarily her first choice you never actually happened were you working in the office no I wasn't working the office when you last saw frank did you offer them a gatorade or anything to drink I love Jesus bumper stickers to a lot of people it seemed Angelina was shopping pretty hard for a man and would do what was necessary. You didn't know it was Angelina you were talking about at the time I did not but once you found out it was angeline who made those accusations I'm guessing I just didn't know what to think he wanted to have kids wanted to start a family other was healthy forty one year old man ah you better believe it what happens when a true crime show becomes you probably thought about putting your gun to her head absolutely not no Chen also said that what Angelina told detectives about Frank's last visit Angel Gate people who worked with Angelina and frank at Angel Gate said Angelina initially had her eye on a different guy she was interested in Gentlemen L. Girl and now she's a Calgary and then when he didn't want anything to do with her she had recognized frank was a religious man in the next you know she's got a Bible on her back window of her car why did but Chan Holloway insisted to detectives and UH as- whatever threats made were out of anger and frustration worked there also that was somewhat of a cowboy were cowboy boots and a hat all sudden she showed up with like a cowboy up bumper sticker on her car and a hat in the back seat including our but so far there was no solid evidence against Chad so detectives also looked at everyone it to know and that's what we needed to do in this particular case what detectives call getting to know you doesn't feel quite so friendly when you're a potential murder suspect he didn't say I think he said something obvious hungry or thirsty sir everything seemed fine they're great to mayday listening somebody in the office go very Some painting McConnell I got Lina Franken become less close to many of his friends at Angel Gate then when the couple moved south frank seemed to cut off his own family get one she was pretty much like a chameleon based on some of the behaviors we learn about her when she was working at the Gate Academy they learned that after meeting it's gathered to honor the heroes what it means to be American evenings on your local N._B._C. Station poisoned and they also knew what frank sister had told them something very strange that Angelina had said to her she says there are lots living life or later a grieving widow. When soon after Frank's death Angelina moved back up north and left behind some of frank's things something above all others that made detective suspect Angelina might be involved in francs death something straight out of Homicide One oh one it could be anything it could be the flowers on the road it could be something yeah that you can poison someone she said for instance she says we have a flower out here called Oleander oleander thrives in warm climates like southern California the leaves and flowers I can she threw them away the things in the trash were were really shocking things that you'd think you'd keep from your husband that you love all that was curious but there was but Angelina wouldn't quite spit it out for the detectives we keep asking her well Angelina what poison which had Holloway have given free our tactic but only deadly in large quantities or if the poison is somehow concentrated Angelina seemed to know how to do that we found it very odd that she took his dress shoes from the service some of his uniform stuff some of his medals and stuff like that that he had and they were on the causes death and at this time we're thinking she knows what that caused death is the thought Angelina might be telling the truth about one thing that frank had been rule Angelina grew more and more impatient? I have a question did you guys get anything at all to the Karner uh-huh because I was on my way back from my daughter up at school I would get this call and it was called it was blocked they said they wanted to tell we know what the -tective saw an opportunity remember they needed the same thing Angelina did just for different reasons she's trying to get you to said she would rather have us say it and of course we'd rather have her say it try as they might they couldn't get Angelina to say a word heard only andor still she kept calling them about Chad and one day delivered another clue straight to investigators someone she said you can make a tea out of that you can make soup out of it and you know it's a poison when we were riding in the limousine pointed right out those are oleander bushes colder she said and told her something big okay was about maybe five or ten after eight yeah me what was going on because they had a lot of respect for frank but they couldn't tell me who they were because they know how Holloway is and they said you need to know and as the days went on and the coroner still didn't how long after frank died that Angelina call the insurance company then reclaim roughly within eight hours antifreeze even on your radar screen at this point at this point no I don't believe it had been but naming a new poison was only one interesting detail in this conversation so the same day same morning but ensure like well they probably pay butyl until the communist nation remember Angelina had said the anonymous informant told her shortly after eight a m you got our phone records I got her phone records yes kind of you know the bill they they grow in the middle of the highway at this point we believe she knows exactly what it is there's no doubt the kept going and Stein Juan kept recording those goals or a cardiac it takes time for this type of stuff can't pin me it started breaking up and all I heard was ask them about and if we not only not only this time befriended her we went her house. Detectives devise a plan to trap Angelina like once again to implicate Chad Holloway Angelina had implicated herself now detectives again went to sea chat. This time was the way Angelina kept bringing up frank's life insurance frank is that we need rich Alita has a plan of her own while this is this has got me shaken and Lo and behold there had not been any calls anywhere near incoming or outgoing to Angelina his phone at that time the conversation I had with Holloway he it's they do try and track down they can't pin me because they can't ordered they knew how and they thought they knew who not Chan but Angelina but to make this case stick the ingredient in antifreeze the talks greed also found Oleander now detectives felt they knew for sure frank had been possibly to freeze finally the coroner's report came back the finding Frank Rodriguez was killed by ethylene glycol the key wjr talk about Angelina Angelina Rodriguez that was the last person I ever wanted these see ever wanted to hear her name Chad she said was the killer but detectives didn't believe her and instead enlisted Chan to help set up detectives had been talking with Angelina who was so eager to collect on her husband's life insurance that she'd let slip some tantalising bits of information for three months then within a minute of Chan hanging up Angelina called the cops and scared of was that the cops were onto her too obvious lies this one about what Chad supposedly said to her and the previous Phantom call about antifreeze but Angelina still hadn't admitted anything at least not to detectives then they found a good friend of Angeline as a no no no we're good thank you know we're good from the beginning Angelina had tried to cast suspicion on frank's friend and Co worker Chad Holloway I that her husband may have been poisoned and that the poison might be what she called that flower in the road or had anything to do with whatsoever and then the investigator say to you we want you to help build a case against her and you say I'm in you better believe in she had done her best to put Chad in the gun sights of law enforcement now came his chance to return the favor frank was sick and Angelina told her not yet not yet not yet of course Angelina had no idea what and gave them quite a different version of the call they had just listened to the cops knew she thought they were still investigating Chad and she was still happy to help them do that for example detectives told Angeline they were sitting around I guess like girls do and talking about killing their husbands if you're joking around how they would do it as girls do girls probably all the cops to arrest him wow this is this is got me shaking five months after her husband's death dont then Palmyrah she told the cops that just months after the wedding Angelina was already bored with frank and cheating on him the facts did not include the sender's name but it did send a clear message this is the cover sheet to the facts that was my wife spray doing right now the friend quoted Angelina as saying that she didn't want a divorce frank because he just bought life insurance with Frank's name conspicuously written in this is the fact that what came right the sheriff's homicide correct well it was convenient Mary convenient stomach which meant he ingested them days after his return from Angel Gate and within hours of his death meaning Angelina police dropped in at Angela's house Angelina think's their next stop will be chance place it doc miraculously miraculously a fax shows up it was an angel gate roster for the day of Franks visit trap for her in the ideas what here see what kind of mistake she may make they ask Chad to call Angelina while they listened in leave the non enormously at Sheriff's homicide why is Chad still free Chad never knew how hard angelina had but he says he said you better watch your back scared to death what Angelina shooter you know I wouldn't go for anything else and I'm like what are you talking about I don't need to be talking to you and he said well they'll never be able to to catch me anyway frankly it's hard to remember all those lights Angelina told them they were wrong okay and nobody is entire investigation told us about antifreeze they tell her the poisons were still in France we can prove that you did Angelina Rodriguez might seem beaten but she had a few more punches left in her just wait a secret plan from inside prison and uh they couldn't figure out how Chad new when frank was coming to angel gate he would have had to have known when they told her so that he can have his poison ready Angelina is how number I wanted Angelina I'm just wondering how in the world this could ruin my life Angelina killed before it was like reliving her death all over again Ah Angelina what did you tell the police that poison prank with Antifreeze Marlene question they are uh you're not gonNa ruin my life anymore it your life that's going to be ruined because of this they lay out the facts the only information the only person that supplied any information that frank was poisoned was you know one Angelina Rodriguez was charged with the murder of her husband frank it turned out that might not be the worst thing she'd ever done or a little more so they kept Angelina talking we befriended her we went in her house and I think she did was offered as coffee my partner kicking each other in their taste there's another conversation on the telephone with Mira Angelina told her she was making a milkshake for frank and special milkshake forum pound the only one who could have given them to it and detectives teller that all along while she thought she was playing them they were playing her don't Holloway for the next thirty five minutes Stein Wand and his partner trying to get Angelina to give it up I believe the statements of her friend L. Mira about how Angelina was bored with frank and wanted a life insurance payout were the most damaging evidence against her aw kind of true given what you tried to do to you before it was but inside I knew

Chad Holloway Angelina frank Frank Rodriguez Angelina Rodriguez Angel Gate Frank Richard Ranjan Chad Angel Gate Academy Chad Holloway Chan Holloway San Luis Obispo Lucent murder California National Guard California Sergeant Holloway baseball Illinois Gate Academy football
Case 141: Natalee Holloway

Casefile True Crime

2:28:21 hr | 1 year ago

Case 141: Natalee Holloway

"Era besides with serious and often distressing incidents. If you feel at anytime you need support. Please contact your local across the central for suggested numbers for confidential support. Place a shy nights for this episode on Europe or now absorb Thursday may twenty six. Two thousand five was an exciting day for one hundred twenty. Four of the three hundred senior students for Manton Brokaw school having graduated two days earlier. The classmates left their hometown of Birmingham Alabama. To spend five days holidaying in Aruba a tropical island in the southern Caribena say the senior class trip had become somewhat of a right of passage for fresh graduates from manton. Brokaw providing one fauna bonding experience before they parted ways for college and other endeavors. Aruba was the ideal destination for the students to one wind. Dr Year of Intense. Study like eighteen miles. North of Venezuela Aruba is a constituent country of the Kingdom of the Netherlands and along with other nearby islands locked Blair and cure sow and makes up part of the Dutch carrier Bane as the Orland laws below the Atlantic hurricane belt at boasts warm sunny weather all year round ensuring the students could make the most of the golden sand beaches to coys waters and throbbing nightlife. Not only was. The destination easily reached via short flight from the United States but given that Americans accounted for seventy two percent of visitors to the island. The students could also expect all the comforts of home including familiar fast. Food restaurants and International Hotel Chains Aruba was also relatively easy to navigate spanning just twenty miles long and six miles wide with a population of approximately one hundred thousand inhabitants. Although most the Ruben spoke adot shore pappy. Minto a creole language that blends Portuguese Spanish Dodge and several west African dialects many also spoke English Takeda to American visitors to the one hundred and twenty four students and seven chaperones arrived at the Aruban capital of a run. You start in the island's North West. It was only a fifteen minute drive from the airport to Palm Beach to check into the Holiday Inn resort located directly on the ocean. Front it was one of the many major hotels that lined the palm fringed beach in addition to the more opulent Mariot Robison and to win them. Debate was studded with Sun. Lange's and take you Baas and also housed the small collection of concrete fishermen hots where locals could store their equipment Danton run. You start was just a ten minute drive away. Providing easy access to the city's lawfully Baas and did not clubs and was a stop off port visiting cruise ships the Manton. Brokaw trip was all inclusive. Meaning all food and alcohol was already paid for unlock. The United States where the legal drinking age was twenty one. The loose lean forced drinking age in Aruba was eighteen for many of the visiting students. It was their first experience with Lak- and that first one is it. The job of the chaperones was mealy to conduct a RONCO. Once a day and two bay available if any issues arose leaving the students free to enjoy that time however Thi- pleased eighteen year old Natalie. Holloway had been looking forward to the senior trip for months. Her divorced parents initially had conflicting views on whether she should attend. But they eventually agreed that she had earned it. Natalie always Bain responsible trustworthy and dependable. She was a dedicated student who graduated with owners in math since Spanish and participated in several extracurricular activities including the bobble club and dance pain. She volunteered for several charity. Organizations including Habitat for humanity the humane society and the American cancer. Society Hereford Sedentary Full eight-year Scholarship to the University of Alabama School of Medicine when she intended to become a doctor. Natalie stepbrother had taken the senior trip to Aruba years prior and remember that fondly and two of her step cousins were also attending with the class of two thousand five old. This competent. Her mother Beth twitty. She wound to adore dot to be extra cautious during high. Tom On the island and to never let her guard down. Natalie was slim with long blonde hair and blue eyes and Beth felt she might be taken advantage of. Natalie reassured her mother that she was aware of the potential dangers and promised to be careful saying she would always be surrounded by her lodge group of friends in Aruba. Nedeli was assigned to a grant flow hotel room with three of her close friends. Ruth Lay and Catherine. The goal spent the first days of their trip alternating net on between the hotel pool and the beach. While taking advantage of the fray drinks natalie had never been much of a drinker Ashim Bryce to a newfound freedom. Her drink of choice was a combination of diet coke and Bacardi one five one Puerto Rican rum with an alcohol. Content of seventy five percent in the evenings dement Brooke students typically went out for dinner and to them parties at the local bars into NARC clubs until the early hours of the morning on Sunday may twenty nine. Natalie joined a group on a snorkeling venture to say the Anttila shipwreck. The logic shipwreck saw it in the car ban that evening. She went by helping with her classmates and had a little too much to drink at five foot. Four and weighing one hundred ten pounds. Natalie's tolerance for alcohol wasn't as strong as some of the others and one of her friends had to walk back to the hotel. The next day of Sunday may thirty was the fawn all day of the trip. Natalie woke up early and had her first cocktail. Omar's throw it away. Prompting one of her classmates to warn her to take it easy so she didn't have a repaid of the not before shea and her friend spent most of the day on the beach returning to their hotel room around six. Pm to get ready for their loss. Nadia Often Dana Natalie and her group went to the excelsior casino located on the second floor of the Holiday Inn. They sat at the blackjack table. When Natalie's friend to ruth struck up a conversation with a young Caucasian man who introduced himself as your on. He was approximately six foot four inches toll with an athletic build and short sandy colored hair. He spoke English with a Dutch accent and said he was a nineteen year old student on vacation from Holland. Bruce had lost the sum of money gambling at the casino over the past few days and asked your on to give her some pointers to help a winsome back. They played for a while with Natalie and the others watching on until ruth was up one hundred dollars and decided to quit while she was ahead around. Nine forty five. Am Iran joined the Americans? While they ordered drinks from the pool saw he had to leave five minutes later but the mountain brook goals told him to make them lighter at Carlos. And Charlie's a franchise restaurant and bar chain aimed at young American potty. Goes why the venue served American and Mexican car obeying cuisine in a relaxed ambience but not it became a popular hotspot for drinking and dancing. It had become a fast favorite with the Alabama students and a group of Iran. Sixty of them had arranged to meet their for one last Hurrah. The Dutchman hesitated telling them the venue would luckily be quiet given. It was a Sunday night but he eventually agreed to do his best to catch up with them. Light Iran just after ten PM. Natalie into roommates attempted to board a bus into a run your thoughts main hub. But they had drinks with them and the driver refused to let them on. They caught a taxi instead arriving in town. Ten minutes light. Aw whether I headed into Carlos Charlie's to meet up with the rest of that classmates. The Mountain Brokaw students accounted for a majority of Carlos. And Charlie's clientele that naught and crowded onto the dance floor at around mid not you. Iran arrived this time accompanied by two friends. He eventually started dancing with Natalie and the two drank together at the bar. Carlos and Charlie's closed at one. Am to appease his American crowd that day. Jay ended the not with the song. Sweet Home Alabama by. Us Rock band. Lynyrd Skin Natalie was nowhere to be seen so her best friend lay walked to another popular Barni by code. Choose a name as human. She might have gone there with some of their other friends. There were between seventy and one hundred manton broke students milling about on the streets but lay couldn't say natalie among them. She returned to the Holiday Inn and set up in the lobby until around three. Im before retiring to bed. Expecting NATALIE TO MAKO. Wipe back with the others add. Im on Monday. May Thirty Les and Ruth Woke Up and realized that Natalie wasn't in their hotel room bed was still fully made and had obviously not been slept in many of the students walked the rooms during the trip so the goals assumed she must have slept in another room. Dane quiet with some of their classmates. But no one knew where Natalie was. The last time anyone had seen her was outside of Carlos and Charlie's shortly after closing time Natalie had told several classmates that she was going for a rod with Iran and his two friends and would make them back at the Holiday Inn lighter on some others had seen her get into a Silva Honda civic with the three men. But as not cabs would clearly mocked in Aruba. They assumed the car was a taxi. At one point. The Honda civic could pulled up alongside a group of Natalie's friends and Shea had elaine data the rear window and enthusiastically yelled at Aruba. Does Chaperones had ranted up? The students from choosen aim at around two. I am but they're all Asuka vases didn't require them to keep tabs on H. Individual. A majority of the students had been drinking heavily by this point. And no one was monitoring one another's activity. One student had been sitting outside by the Holiday Inn pool until around. Father I am and said. She saw several classmates return in the early morning hours. But Natalie hadn't been among them possible and belongings were untouched in her till ruin as was very mobile phone which she had intentionally left behind as it didn't get coverage on the island. The students were scheduled to fly home to Alabama at three PM but as the AL was paused there was still no sign of Natalie. When the time came to depart for the airport she still hadn't shine up on shore of what to do. One of the chaperones decided to stay behind until Natalie was located and although it was tasked with calling Natalie's parents in Alabama to deliver the news. That daughter was missing. Her mother. Beth twitty was returning from a weekend away when she received the call and immediately turned to a car around and drove to the Birmingham airport. She was pulled over for speeding along the way but when she explained the reason why she was driving so fast to the officer he gave me the number for one of these contacts in the FBI and to let her off without a ticket. While Natalie's family frantically put plans in place to travel to Aruba Sharon went to one of the full police stations on the island to report. Natalie's disappearance dying formed the officer on duty that she had lost Baynes Sane. Driving away from Carlos jollies around midnight in the company of Dutch tourist named Yoram Rubin. Police advised that they couldn't launch an official missing person investigation. Unless Natalie was missing for twenty four hours that reassured she was locked playoff having fun and would resurface again. Soon it was common for young Americans visiting the island to extend this day at the last minute or to lose track of time so the police weren't overly concerned. Given the Dutch car baynes proximity to Venezuela Aruba was often used to transport not codex between South America and the United States which meant the island was no stranger to criminal activity. An agent for the United States Drug Enforcement Agency who was stationed in the nearby Dutch Carbon Orland of curious. How was in Aruba for the weekend and Heard About Natalie Holloway's disappearance from one of the shop? Brian's agreed to help with the search and to use his contacts to notify the FBI on behalf of her family. Beth twitty was able to charter a private jet and arrived in Aruba at ten pm along with her husband. George Jug twitty a prominent Alabama businessman and several of their friends pre-arranged exports helped them to get through customs quickly and provided them with a van and draw the group checked into the Holiday Inn where the mountain. Brokaw chaperone told them that Natalie had last been seen in the company of a Dutch tourist named Huron. Beth asked the hotel's manager. If there were any guests checked in by that name and the many immediately knew she was talking about. However you're on wasn't a guest at the hotel nor was he a tourist. Hey lived in Aruba. Having emigrated with his family from the Netherlands as a child and was nine to frequent that casinos and poker rooms on the island where he locked the gamble and heat on Foreign Women. Beth and jog went to the excelsior casino and requested to say the surveillance footage taken from the blackjack table when the goals and Huron had met once they spotted the Dutchman they took note of east physical characteristics and with the help of their escorts walked around Palm Beach offering money to anyone who knew the young man a local teenager accepted one hundred dollars to give them your Ron's full name and address he was Johan van to slowed and he wasn't nineteen lucky had told the girls but a seventeen year old high school student. Beth and her entourage went to the police station. With this information the officers remained hesitant about checking out the late they used to young Americans partying too hard on the island and was sure Natalie was luckily sleeping off a hangover somewhere had taken drugs or had decided to extend her holiday. Beth insisted this wasn't possible saying her daughter wasn't a big drinker. And would never touch narcotics. Natalie was also traveling with a limited amount of cash and had left her credit card in the United States so she didn't have the funds to travel onwards. The police suggested she might have intentionally run away and didn't want to be found a possibility that Beth strongly rejected at two I am. The police reluctantly agreed to accompany Beth. Enter crew to the Vanda slight residence to check whether Natalie was there. You're on lived in a detached apartment at the rear of. He's family home. He's two younger brothers. Aged ten and fourteen resided in the main house along with the schoolteacher mother Anita and their Father Palace Vanda slowed a lawyer for the ARUBAN GOVERNMENT. Who was in training to become a judge? Palace was the only adult home at the time as he's wife was in Holland visiting relatives and was out with friends. He insisted he hadn't seen a blonde American go on their property. The cold he son's mobile phone and insisted he returned home immediately. You're on arrived shortly after he was joined by his friend. Twenty one year old. Daypack KALPA as Serena Maze National. Who had been with him at Carlos? And Charlie's the previous evening emotions. Were running but Beth into a group and they became aggressive when confronting the two young men urine denied knowing Natalie but eventually admitted that the two had been flooding at Carlos and Charlie's the prior and had delighted kissed. He said Natalie wanted to say sharks before she departed the following day so he and his friends had driven her to the California Lot House on Arish Sheikh Bauge a popular snorkeling spot on the northwestern tip of the island at around two I am. They dropped her off at the Holiday Inn and hadn't seen her since Deepak confirmed this story. And Hey into your on agreed to accompany the group to the hotel to show them when they had dropped Natalie off your on pointed to a spot out saw the lobby and said that when they arrived. Natalie was so intoxicated that she fell and hit her head while getting out of the car. A security guard dressed in black had come is to help her. Deepak backed up this version of events adding that the security God was carrying a walkie talkie. Beth was convinced. The young men were lying. Natalie's friend lay had waited in the hotel lobby until around three. I am that gnawed and didn't say Natalie. During that time additionally the hotel employees wore green pants with great shirts and Annan had reported saying anyone drop off an intoxicated woman to the lobby in the early hours. The police told Beth that a detective would be sent out to visit her the following morning that not shea. Judge stayed in Natalie's hotel room leaving the lamp on in the hopes she would return. Beth lightest cited. That's what parents do you leave. Your light on and white into your child comes hiring. The following morning of Tuesday may thirty one you're on Vanda slowed was taken to the police station to provide an official statement. He said that on the afternoon of Sunday may twenty nine. He had been participating in poker tournament with his father had the Excelsior Casino Ni-. Although you're on was underage. His father allowed him to play in tournaments. That didn't require a financial. Buying Palace had delayed the tournament early to take care of your ons two younger brothers but agreed to return to pick your on up whenever he was ready to go after the tournament. You're on decided to stick around for a wall Longa. He sat down to play around of blackjack when an American go lost him fut gaming advice she later invited him to join her friends that not. He was hesitant at first because he had exams at school the following day but eventually a great knowing he could get away with a light naught with these mother out of town. He left the casino to get something to wait from a nearby McDonald's and then called his father to come and get him at home. He told several friends. Say if anyone wanted to join him to made up with the American girls several declined but Deepak KALPA great. He lied a peaked. Your on up he Silva Honda Civic. Along with these brother eighteen year old CETACEAN KALPA. The trail arrived at college. In Charlie's at around twelve. Thirty A M when Natalie immediately your on over to the bar afterwards. They drank what he described as a Yod of Whiskey Kala together. You'll Ron said he didn't take drugs. And didn't think Natalie data when Carlos and Charlie's closed Natalie asked if she could go with your own and his friend they go into Deepak Honda Civic and she requested. They drive pasta friends so she could wave at them. You're on and Natalie then started making out in the back seat. He told her they couldn't go back to his place so she asked if they could go to the coast to see. That shocks. Your on told Natalie there were no sharks but she insisted deepak drive towards the California Lighthouse which was approximately twenty minutes away from Romania. Stop but Natalie changed her mind on the way and told them to take back to the hotel instead. The boys claimed that Natalie was highly intoxicated and allegedly made several racist remarks including that her mother was related to adult hit law. They arrived at the Halloween around to. Im when Natalie drunkenly fell out of the car and was helped up by the security God who was dressed in Black Deepak details. Kalpa provided statements. That back to your Ron's version of events entirely. Deepak said that when Natalie entered his car he told her to get out she was drunk and he didn't want any trouble. But Natalie insisted on going for a ride to the lighthouse after Shea and Jurong Kissed for a wall. Natalie fell asleep on the drive and I had to wake her up to Oscar which hotel she was staying at when they arrived at the Holiday Inn. A dark skinned man with a walkie talkie approached Natalie once. She entered the lobby after providing estimates. You're on Deepak instead. Teach were role Frei to go. He Ruben Police distributed missing person posters to the local media telling Natalie's family that many young people on the island to God drugs and to Natalie could be off partying with them although this same implausible jug twitty. And he's friends located drug houses in the area and went searching financially dissatisfied with the hesitancy of local police to launch an official investigation. Natalie's family recruited American ex-pats to assist in finding her Beth distributed. Post is that appealed to Natalie directly using her daughter's nickname she wrote plays Komi Hoodie on. Miss you and love you. Mommy's here on Aruba and are really wanted to not please call me on my local sell to some locals. This poster implied that Natalie had run away and didn't want to be found. It was quickly replaced with an attention grabbing posta featuring to smiling images of Natalie head-on with the word kidnapped Imboden read text on Wednesday June. One Natalie's disappearance made the front page of local newspaper Aruba. Today the paper's editor Julia Renfro are helped. Organize a search of the island and encouraged locals to assist with a series of radio announcements. Also calling for volunteers after some complications regarding flights. Natalie's father Dave Holloway. He's wife Robin and other family members arrived on the island to help. They hired a car and headed straight to the closest police station. Eventually visiting. Oh Fool. Police stations on the island. According to Dave's Book Aruba the Tragic Untold Story of Natalie Holloway and corruption in paradise. Two of the four stations were unaware of Natalie's disappearance when he told one detective who he was and why he was there. The detective allegedly responded by asking. How much money Dave had. He told the distressed father not to worry because Luxa many other young visitors to Aruba. Natalie was luckily just swept up in a holiday romance. Dave and his family went to Carlos and Charlie's and saw for themselves just how lax the security was with teenagers drinking openly at the BAA within a space of two hours. They were accosted multiple. Tom's by local drug dealers. The Holloway's asked around and whitall. There was a strict rule against the drug peddlers committing crimes against foreigners as the island relied so heavily on tourism and they couldn't risk and negatively impacting the industry. In the meantime Aruban police retrieved and viewed the surveillance footage from the Holiday Inn Deepak calpers Honda. Civic was not captured pulling up to the establishment at any time nor was Natalie. Saint entering the lobby. The footage confirmed the Yoron daypack instead. Cetaceans were lying. Police had also noticed a few other discrepancies in the tray. I statements in addition to them incorrectly. Describing the hotel stuff is being dressed in black wolf. Three had specified a slightly different location where they had supposedly dropped natalie off a security guard at the California lighthouse with the boys allegedly took Natalie. Prior to the hotel was also questioned. Hey said that. The nod of Natalie's disappearance was extremely quiet throughout the naught. He had seen less than ten cars in the area. None of which had been a gray Honda. Civic you're on Deepak and CETACEAN officially became suspects in Natalie's disappearance but the police didn't feel there was enough evidence to warrant and arrest instead they requested access to the trio's mobile phone records and sought permission to place listening devices on their fines. But Those Day June to the story was making headlines across the United States intensive blocking the pressure for Ruben Lauren. Forcement to arrest the suspects Natalie. Stanley continued searching the island on foot and by CAA with the hope of locals and started handing out money in exchange for any information regarding her whereabouts. This prompted many unfounded lades with one local coming forward to claim that Natalie had been kidnapped by couple who operated a local drug house. Dave Holloway launched the grand search the area surrounding the California Lighthouse which angered beneficial's. The lighthouse was a major tourist attraction and they felt that dives actions would generate negative media attention and deter visitors. The search went ahead. Regardless but the efforts were hindered by the harsh landscape that consisted of CACTI and jagged rock formations Beth focused on conducting interviews with local and foreign media will also visiting schools at twenty thousand dollar reward for information was announced by the Ruben Guffman and tourism boards additional contributions from Natalie's family and several ARUBAN businesses and individuals quickly boosted the reward to fifty thousand dollars on Friday June. Three at the Aruba. Today newspaper received tip off that a blonde American woman matching Natalie's description had been witnessed at an ATM in a ruinous DOB before taking off in a Kia sedan. Several Carloads of newspaper staff and volunteers driver ant Tan searching for the vehicle. The KEA was eventually so headed and follow it to a house. Not far from the Aruba. Today had orders. A member of the search party approached the car and found two women and demand in sawed smoking cannabis with a baby in the back. Say the Blonde woman was American. That had a slightly heavier build to Natalie Holloway. The Caja drive off and the crew trialed it to another house where the occupants remained in the car for forty minutes the drive out then got up and started swinging. Baseball Bat. Police were called and they took the driver and the blonde female passenger into custody. An officer nounce dive at the Police Radio that she was ninety. Eight percent. Sure the woman was Natalie Holloway. Beth than jog was summoned to the station but their hopes were immediately crushed when they realized that the woman was a stranger according to the book. The Holloway Files Secrets from the police offs by wind band. Depaul and Vincent Volpe a Ruben. Law Enforcement were working diligently on the case though were barred from speaking to the media about their efforts in any capacity. This gave the impression that would doing little to find Natalie. Investigators viewed your on Deepak instigations albeit suspects. But we're also trying to avoid focusing exclusively on them. They remained open to wall possibilities. Including that Natalie may have accidentally drowned or had run away. Supporting this theory was an entry in her high school. Yearbook in which Natalie had quoted the lyrics of Leonard's innards Song Todd Free Bird that when if I leave here tomorrow would you still remember me for? I must be traveling on now. 'cause there's too many places of got to say the police spoke to locals. Who said there was several vagrants referred to as quite beach bums who frequented the Palm Beach area surrounding the Holiday Inn? Some were known to sleep on the hotel. Suddenly onto xybernaut police questioned unknown h-bomb and thief named Mullins Salei who said he had been on the beach near the Holiday Inn. On the north of Natalie's disappearance he had crossed paths with the Docs gained security. God He knew only Motti who worked at the neighbouring Allegra Hotel. Monte had been wearing black clothing and carrying a walkie talkie as described by your on daypack and Cetacean the Marlins Saleh said he watched Monty Walk into the Holiday Inn and approach group of American women who gathered by the pool a friend of Mattie soon joined them and started chatting with a blunt Caucasian woman. Mullen knew this man only Maka another dachshund security God from the Allegro Hotel Mollins. Steinman was backed by a Holiday Inn. Employee who had also seen to security gods from the Allegra Hotel milling about the pool area on the nod of Sunday may twenty nine. He told police that one of the security guards often frequented der establishment to heed on female tourists. Another staff member told police that he had seen a dark skinned man wearing black talking to a blunk woman who resembled Natalie Holloway. The two heading braced and then walked towards the entrance to the Xhosa Casino. A holiday insecurity. God said that in the early morning hours he had heard dogs barking on the beach and when he went down to investigate he sought too dark skinned men dressed in black the allegro hotel security gods who mollins Salei new was Mati and Mauka where identified as Abraham Jones whose nickname was Maga and Antonius. Mickey John Police checks their work records and confirmed that neither of the men had been working on the nod of May twenty nine in the early morning hours of Sunday June. Five Abraham and Antonius placed under arrest and questioned in relation to Marlon. Sylla's assertions Antonius told police that he had gone to the Holiday Inn alone. The Blonde woman he was witnessed speaking to wasn't natalie that an American woman from Boston named Joan the two had met the previous year and had organized to made at the hotel pool that not. Antonius had to work early the following morning so he left the Holiday Inn at around eleven thirty PM. He denied ever meeting Natalie Holloway and said he would never do anything to harm tourist as they had lived on. Aruba for a decade and undestood how important the tourism industry was to the island. Hey suggested demolishing Salei may be trying to implicate him and should be the one viewed with suspicion Abraham Jones denied going to the Holiday Inn at all on the nod of May twenty non but admitted that Antonius John Frequented. The hotel to flirt with tourists depends work. Uniform consisted of a pair of navy pants with a white t shirt and dark windbreakers of their choice. Antonius said to other dark skinned security guards working at the Allegra Hotel on the nod of Natalie's disappearance who wore dark clothing and carried walkie-talkies. They security gods what questioned and told police they had run into Molin Salei and another white man on the bait on the nodding question and had warned the holiday insecurity gods of their presence as a constituent of the Netherlands Aruba Roper rights under Dutch law which specifies that suspects can be held in custody for up to one hundred sixteen days while the investigation continues during this time. A judge must grant permission for the suspects to remain in custody at certain intervals. Although the police interviews hadn't generated anything incriminating against Abraham John's or Antonius John. A judge ruled there was sufficient evidence to hold both men in custody while the police continued issuing other leads Monday. June six mark one week since Natalie had disappeared four thousand officials and seven hundred volunteers from both the rue and the United States will now involved in the search. They were assisted by helicopter sniffer. Dogs police divers and Dutch marines. The used their F sixteen aircraft to scan the island with infrared cameras. A blood-soaked mattress was found in a shack on the beach. But testing of the blog revealed it to Kane on backing Birmingham Alabama. Assuming was held at a Jewish Temple West. Several of Natalie's friends when members. Rabbi Jonathan Mila told his congregation. We have learned that when things become the darkest that is when we are called upon to envision the lot we have learned that when everything has gone wrong that when we have to believe that things can be made right again. That is the message of hope. We must have never been hope. We must have never let darkness extinguished the lie. The Holloway End. Twenty families organized the public press of while Beth continued to take advantage of every opportunity to keep this story in the news media crews from twenty two countries had descended on the island while the FBI launched a hotline for anyone who had any information relating to the case Nelson Oduber. The Prime Minister of a Rubel met with Natalie's family and reassured them. He would do everything in his power to help find their daughter. Although local law enforcement resisted handing the case over to the FBI they were unprepared and ill-equipped for an investigation of this ause. The aruban police cheif lightest cited. We wanted to investigate all the possibilities with an open mind yet. A growing portion of the public viewed Huron Vanda slowed and the cow pie. Brothers as the obvious suspects at one point. Natalie's missing person prized is where edited to raid kidnapped by Johan van De slowed. This led to the vantage light. Family receiving an onslaught of negative media attention and the posters were changed to raid missing. Instead of kidnapped behind the scenes. The aruban police were honing in on your on. Deepak and stace. Investigators checked the trio's phone and Internet records and confirmed that had been ongoing. Communication between neurons and daypack throughout. Monday may thirty the day after Natalie disappeared. They were also suspicious of the fact the two had met up that evening despite being out light did not before you're on had attended school and went to the Aruba racquet club in the afternoon before going gambling at the Wyndham. Just say no with a friend. Hey into Deepak spoke on the phone on three separate occasions throughout the naught around six eleven and eleven thirty Deepak then drove to mate. Yoron at the Radisson hotel around midnight. You should be able to join them as he had ever slept that day into missed school completely angering his parents. Witnesses said European and Deepak seeing digitized and were both drinking. They were at the casino when they received the two. Im phone call from your aunt. Father Palace who explained that Natalie Holloway's family had arrived there has with the police investigators theorized the whether the purpose of urine and Deepak meeting that not with so they could get this story. Strike will perhaps destroy evidence early on the morning of Thursday June non. You're on daypack chance to take. Which taken in for questioning under suspicion of murder or manslaughter and unlawful detention prior to being taken into custody your aunts father told the young men that if there was no body weapon or other physical evidence investigators would be unable to hold a case against them. Deepak maintained his original lie about dropping Natalie at the Holiday Inn adding that a customer at the Internet cafe where he worked had this incident and could confirm he story his brother. Cetaceous refused to provide a second statement and instead chose to remain silent urine also stuck by his original statement but added several new data files including that Natalie allegedly asked him if Deepak into tastes were he slaves. You're unstated quite to her lack paypal. Lessslaves you're on was transferred to a different police station while the cow pie brothers were detained in the same center has Allegro Hotel Security God and tiniest John who was also bang. Hold in relation to Natalie's disappearance daypack allegedly told Antonius that the trio had allied about dropping Natalie at her hotel and to the brothers had really dropped her at the beach with Yoron. Antonius immediately related this information to the prison guards who took it with a grain of salt. You're on was questioned. Multiple Times over the course of the day during which the police encouraged him to talk by threatening the possibility of Lafayette prison. They also reiterated that the Kelpie brothers would luckily remained loyal to one another which could have dire consequences. Huron de Ruben Justice. System FOR BAIT. The offering of play deals meaning investigators kudos offer any of the suspects immunity or a less severe criminal charge in exchange for information. One detective resorted to lying to European saying that the brothers had made incriminating statements against him. That was enough to scare your on into requesting a loya and did meeting that. He hadn't been truthful on Friday June ten. You're on made another visuals diamond. This talk telling detectives that he had not been with daypack and sedation when they dropped Natalie at the Holiday Inn. He said the brothers had dropped him home. I at around one forty. I am prior to his departure. He into Nedeli exchanged email addresses and shed one lost. Kiss him at three. Im He cooled daypack on his mobile phone. Who told him they had dropped Natalie off at her hotel the following not when they received word that Natalie's family were looking for her daypack told your on and would be best if hey said. He was with him and his brother when they dropped Natalie at the hotel he also suggested they added the false data about her falling over and heating ahead. You're on told. Investigators that Deepak typically kept his car in a warehouse at the airport. And then if anything had happened to natalie that was luckily the brothers had taken her there. Cetaceous chose to break his solace and provide a second statement in which he revealed that it was his job to wash his brother's car weekly which was kept at a warehouse in the airport. The loss Tom he had washed it was on. May Twenty nine. Before Natalie entered the vehicle when asked if he would making criminal indictments against his brother cetaceous responded. I would do everything for my brother even if it costs me my freedom. Investigators told the cowboy brothers that had provided a new statement incriminating them in Natalie's disappearance which prompted a revised statement from daypack. He said that when they raised the lot has your on and Natalie Wood busy making up so he kept driving they reached Oj Smith Boulevard near the Marriott Hotel at around one forty five I am and Huron asked to be let out saying he would walk. Natalie back to the Halloween via the Bay Bridge and then find his way home but hotels were on the same beachfront approximately point six miles apart and the war between the two only took around ten to fifteen minutes sometime between two forty five and three fifteen. Am You're on cold today? Pack to let him know he was on his way home. This was something. The friend's always did to make sure everyone was safe. You're on said. He did not only had gone for a swim that she then fell asleep on the beach so he decided to leave her there and walk. I'm alone he had left. His snake is on the beach and was annoyed because he was barefoot after they ended their phone call urine scent daypack text message to say he would go online to chat as soon as he got home a little while later. Deepak received an online message from your on thanking him winding up and the two agreed to meet again the following evening. Deepak said he had the text message to prove your on was lying about the brothers dropping him home before taking Natalie to the hotel. He cy retracted. His previous statement about Natalie being highly intoxicated and said she seemed quite reasonably with it. He denied that Natalie had made any racist comments to the brothers but that European had told them of her alleged remarks days later. Daypack said he thought you're on had allied to detract attention from himself and to cover up the fact that he had right. Natalie Sitatunga also made a new statement in which he back to Deepak updated version of offense including that Natalie hadn't seen two very drunk when they dropped her and Yoron at the beach. There was only one discrepancy between the brothers statements. Daypack said that at one point he had pulled over to urinate on the side of the road near. Rashy bauge whilst tash had no recollection of this ever happening. The police questioned Europeans. Best friend and neighbor Freddie's at Dan. Hey said that on. Monday may thirty the diaw off that Natalie disappeared. You're told him that he had picked up an American woman and taken her to the lot house before dropping her back at the Holiday Inn. This was of significance to the police. As Natalie's disappearance wasn't known at this time so you're on had in no valid reason to lie to his friend and less. He was already attempting to cover he's tracks. The following day of Tuesday may thirty one. You're on told Freddie that Natalie was missing and admitted the story about dropping. Her at the hotel was ally. He said that he and the KALPA brothers had taken her to a beach near Marriott Hotel but she had been so drunk that she fell asleep. They decided to leave her because they didn't know what else to do. You are on also mentioned too that he had left a pair of sneakers on the beach that he would need to replace your on had purchased the trendy case whispering pair of blue and watch shoes from the United States and they were coveted amongst teenagers in Aruba if he had simply left them on the sand neither Mariot hotel that would have been an easy task him to retrieve them. He should've bang motivated to do so as the walk home would take him. Forty five minutes across rough terrain. He'll cy Lod to bolaise about his shoe. So is saying the sneakers were a sauce fourteen when he actually wore saw as tan this led some to theorize that urine had disposed of his shoes because thou a stained with Natalie's blood and then fabricated the story about the getting them on the beach to explain why that were no longer in his possession. There would also coming handy if matching shoeprints will light a fan in incriminating location. However the story also worked against him if he hadn't mentioned leaving his shoes on the beach the police would never have known that a pair of sneakers were missing by interviewing several of your other friends and former girlfriend. The police land that he had a history of trading females pulley. They would talk to the urine derived pleasure from using goes for sex and then boasting about what he had done. After having sex with one girlfriend he allegedly gave her change for the bus and then chased her out of his time. At the time of Natalie's disappearance he had a girlfriend as well as another go. He was saying whom one friend said. He Treated Lock Doormat. He also had violent tendencies and was easily aggravated often. Getting into physical fights especially when he was under the influence of alcohol over the past few years he had gotten into trouble at school and time and Wisconsin Lee lying to stealing from his parents. They had become so concerned that I sent him to say a psychologist though. It did little to curb his behavior on Monday. June thirteen the Allegro hotel security. God's Abraham Jones and Antonius John were released from custody after their alibis checked out fearing that the Kelpie brothers were incriminating him further. You're on Van de slide elaborated on his previous nightman. He admitted that the Kelpie brothers had dropped him and Natalie at the beach and that he's intention was to have sex with her along the walk back to the Holiday Inn. His shoes had sand in them so he took them off neither Mariot Hotel. Hey into Natalie than light. Dan Neither. Fisherman's US a ten minute. Walk from the Holiday Inn and started making A. You're on didn't have a condom said Natalie refused to have sex within day engaged in other sexual activity and at around three. Am YOU'RE ON TALL? Natalie it was time to get on but shave wanted to stay on the beach when she refused to leave. He tried to carry her. She wouldn't let him and eventually fell asleep on the sand. You're on then cold. That date act to come and pick him up and he arrived shortly after with two dogs in time when he saw that Natalie was asleep. Deepak allegedly said. Don't fuck with that bitch and told Yoram that someone would take care of her. The next day you're on told the police. He believed that after Deepak drug him home. He must have returned to ripe Natalie and had probably buried her buddy next to the fishermen arts up until this point only deepak instead take should spoken of Natalie Falling Asleep on the beach. Now that you're on had repeated the same story. This possibility gained credibility however no other witnesses had reported seeing Deepak with two dogs on the beach nor did daypack ever mentioned this day. Tau In addition. The police had already thoroughly searched that area including draining a nearby mangrove swamp and found nothing. These factors indicated urine. Stool wasn't telling the whole truth. Deepak continued to insist that hey inside teach went straight home after dropping neuron and Natalie at the beach as Cobb was fitted with the dual exhaust. He said the loud noise would have no doubt while his mother who could batch for their return. Heim the cowboys. Mother was questioned but said she was a heavy sleeper and hadn't stood at any point throughout the evening that Natalie went missing. Mobile phone records confirmed that at two twenty six. I am on the nod of Natalie's disappearance you're on had placed the night minute phone call to Deepak shortly after Deepak sent. You're on a text message which read all white until you get home and then old guy to sleep. Give me a mystical when you arrive. A day pass. Computer records confirmed he logged into an online chat room around this time at Trade Thurday. Niamh you're on message daypack to say. Hey thanks may trust. Dole is well on home the location. The suspects were in when they split activity. Occurred was unable to obey determined but the records corroborated e packs version of events and further proved. That you're on was lying. Hey had claimed daypack could come to pick him up often. Natalie fell asleep on the beach if that would true. It didn't make sense why he would then send the back a text message to say. He was home safe when confronted with this discrepancy. You're on was unable to provide an explanation the next day. He said he had made a mistake. And a whistle tastes. Who had picked him up not daypack. The loss confirmed sighting of Natalie could around one fifty nine. Am Phone and computer. Records proved you're on was home by three fifteen regardless of who was telling the truth that only left a two hour window where the trio could have harmed Natalie and arrays Dole Lebanon's of a crime given this such short timeframe. The police considered the possibility that more people were involved in. Natalie's disappearance one such person was Dave. Crows a DJ. Who worked on a party boat called the tattooed? The boat was moored at the Holiday Inn and took young tourists yet to say at sunset when I drink and dance until the early hours. Steve was a regular customer at the Internet cafe where Deepak worked early in the investigation hit voluntarily gone to the police station and develop decided. The tree is claims telling. The police had seen a great vehicle. Drop a blonde intoxicated. Woman at the Holiday Inn in the early hours of my thirty when police asked if someone had coerced him to make this statement. Stave insisted sister was the truth. Given police already knew the story was ally that was no valid. Reason was Dave would make such a claim unless he was helping your on and the Kelpie brothers create a false alibi for other. Witnesses had also applies to stave cars in Carlos. And Charlie's at the same time Natalie and other manton Brokaw students were there celebrating. Fontenot on the island. He therefore became a person of interest and was taken into police custody for further questioning on Sunday. June nineteen stave. Crows admitted. He had lied about witnessing the Holiday Inn incident for no reason other than he had ever heard. Deepak story at the Internet cafe and a belief that was true. He said he didn't even know daypack. S- name and had never met Yoron Osa taste before he denied having anything to do with Natalie's disappearance and claimed to have been at work on the knows she went missing this was disproved by his employer who told police that Tattoo. Potty bug didn't operate on Sunday nights two days later stave provided another statement cooling. He's boss Eliah. He said he had peaked his friend. Jeremy off at eleven thirty PM on Sunday may twenty nine and two. The two had taken a motorized fiberglass dinghy out to the tattooed to check on things. The two men had only stayed on the boat for ten minutes before returning to shore and spending the next few hours bar hopping but he couldn't recall if they went to Carlos and Charlie's after the baas closed at one. Am He germy? Went back onto the tattoos and stayed there until four thirty. I am the staff at Carlos. And Charlie's he newsday from his work as A. Dj told police. He had arrived at the bar alone at around ten thirty PM. No Doctor Eleven thirty with the Jeremy has a recalled additionally neither he nor Jeremy could be accounted for between the hours of one and four thirty. Im this left at three and a half hour window west. They've claimed they were out on the Tattoo. Potty bug which wasn't operation at the time this led police theorize that stave. Hey there alone. All with the help of his friend had met Natalie on the beach and used the Dini to take her out to the Tattoo where they could have killed her and fern. Hope Buddy into say a forensic. Investigators searched the Dini and the tattoo. But nothing of interest was uncovered. Stave was held in custody for ten days before the magistrate deigned. There wasn't enough evidence to hold him any longer. He was released and subsequently fired from the Tattoo which went out of business shortly after. You're on father's palace. Van De slowed was also considered a person of interest. Natalie's family had been suspicious of him from the Stop knowing that he's position as a lawyer and judge in training men. He had expert knowledge of the Aruban legal system. He was also well connected with authorities and could use as relationships to his advantage. Furthermore when Natalie's mother Beth arrived in Aruba Twenty four hours after her daughter vanished. She visited the vandals flight residents to question. Neuron Palace answered that Dole and allegedly told her that he had peaked. Natalie and Huron up from McDonald's the not before and dropped her safely to her hotel light. Iran WANTS PALACES WIFE. Anita had returned from her trip to Holland. Beth had sat down with the couple to ask them more questions. She noted palace had sweated profusely despite the room being quite cool at the time she had given him a hope financially bracelet which were being worn in support of her daughter and saw that his hands were shaking as he accepted it when police initially began. Surveilling hurons phone calls. They recorded a conversation on June six. In which palace encouraged he son to stick with the story about dropping Natalie off at the Holiday Inn and quote nothing more prior to the arrest of he saw and the cow? Pie Brothers Palace had explained to them. Exactly how criminal work and had provided a level of legal advice that went beyond the role of parental cancel. This led to the opinion that he had locked played. A part in helping the TRIARC create death false statements and had therefore into feed with the investigation palace. It admitted to the police. That you're on was a bad law but that it was out of character that he's done to leave a young girl alone on the beach. He also denied as telling Natalie's family that he had dropped her at the Holiday Inn clarifying that. He's comment related to when he peaked. Huron up from McDonalds earlier in the evening. The police a great. This may have been a misunderstanding. On Wednesday June fifteen devante slights home was searched and two vehicles belonging to your parents were confiscated and processed for forensic evidence. Nothing was found but bud is point. Had had been six days since their son's arrest and two weeks since Natalie went missing on Thursday June twenty three palace van de slide was arrested on suspicion of complicity in murder manslaughter and kidnapping resulting in death. Chafe prosecutor Karen Janssen described his actions as disturbing and obstructive. He's wife held a press conference in the Van. De Slides Backyard Calling. Her husband's arrest ridiculous. She accused the American meteor of high jacking. The ARUBAN justice system saying this is not about Natalie anymore. It's about enormous pressure from the states and the media believing my husband I believe in my son Palace was released from custody. Two days later due to a lack of evidence justifying holding he many Longo he released this statement cooling his arrest utterly ridiculous and absurd but many continued to view him with suspicion. Three fishermen came forward to confirm. They had been on Palm Beach in the early morning hours of Monday thirty. They didn't notice a gray. Honda civic in the area. Nor had I seen Natalie you're on the Kelpie brothers or anyone else on the beach. The only vehicle I witnessed will not was a Suzuki Jape. Which pulled in around one forty five am and stayed for approximately forty five minutes. The fishermen heard the voices of a male and female coming from that Jacob both of whom spoke with English accents but NATO sounded locked that we're in trouble or distress of any kind. The beachfront was narrow and it had been a calm quiet not with good visibility to fisherman had remained there until four thirty A. N. and stated would have been impossible for them not to see Natalie and your on if the pair had bane on the shore one-sided if someone says that he came there with the girl he's telling lies all three fishermen recalled that the weather was still contradicting your own statement that it had been difficult to he. They pack on the phone because it had been a windy on your on. Ulcer. Hadn't mentioned seeing Suzuki Jape in the area at any point on Thursday June thirty. You're on daypack. And CETACEANS were transferred between police stations. Together in the same equal granting them contact for the first time since their arrests almost three weeks Oleo a covert audio device recorded that conversation during which you're on confronted daypack with several questions including why are you saying that we drive to the lighthouse while we absolutely did not do that. Deepak responded that I did go to the lighthouse. You're on also brought up. An instance in which daypack had allegedly told him that he wanted to write a go. Daypack responded. Who's going to believe you. Now you lost so much. Investigators remained convinced that the trae Iowa covering up something but on Monday July. Four two thousand five to count. Our brothers were released after a magistrate. Determined that no serious justifications to hold them any longer you're on was ordered to be held for an additional sixty days no travel restrictions were given to the cow. Pie. Brothers prompting. Natalie's Martha Beth to tell the media. My greatest fear is that they will leave a rubel these criminals and the afraid to walk among the tourists. Rubio while I have not seen my beautiful daughter in thirty six days by masking all nations not to offer them a safe haven. She openly criticized the decision to relate. Daypack remarking. Two suspects were released yesterday. Who were involved in violent crime against my daughter as the brothers had been charged with any crime and there was no conclusive proof that they were involved. In Natalie's disappearance best's comments spurred backlash against her family a rubens accused of disrespecting local lows while seditious loyal cold her remarks prejudicial inflammatory libelous and totally outrageous and threatened to take legal action on behalf of his client while local support had been strong in the early stages of Natalie's disappearance things. Were starting to turn on Tuesday. July five of the two hundred locals gathered outside the courthouse in support of the ARUBAN judiciary system with some holding signs saying innocent until proven guilty and respect our laws or go home an angry businessman. Lyda told a journalist for Vanity Fair magazine. This is just a concerted attack on Aruba a terrorist attack why blame the Holland a whole country for something that is out of control? Beth twitty attacks our justice system. What About Yours Jon? Benet was that ever solved Maku Jackson. He gets off Jay. That's American justice entered. The woman is criticizing US three days. Light Up Beth released a statement apologizing for her comments saying would like to apologize to the Aruban people. And today Ruben authorities if I will. My family offended you in any way. I realized that the Aruban Legal System Buds by the presumption of innocence. And I'll want to reassure everyone that I do respect the Aruban legal system in mid-july o'clock ranger searching on the Northeast Coast. A robot came across the pace of duct tape with several blunt hairs attached. The type was sent to the Netherlands forensic testing but it was determined. The didn't belong to Natalie then on Monday. July pain DAV is found a barrel in the ocean near the Marriott. Hotel speculation arose that it could contain Natalie's body but it turned out to be full of concrete. A homeless man came forward claiming head Bain at the dump three days off that not only went missing and had witnessed someone berry an object that looked like a human body. He was able to describe the exact location. The item had been buried beneath. Several weeks had passed by the time he made. He's report a significant amount of garbage had been piled on the alleged sought police offices cadaver dogs. Fbi agents and volunteers search team combed as landfill using backhoes and machinery. The cadaver dogs reacted to several specific areas but they hit the identified medical waste after a week of searching in unpleasant conditions. The search was called off with no trace of Natalie. Found a fisherman also came forward to report that on the nod of Natalie's disappearance the fishermen hot said vein robbed and to North and a lobster cage had been stolen. He didn't think to report the theft at the time but now wanted whether it could be linked to the Holloway investigation as the cage was large enough to feed a human body. According to Dave Holloway's book hey received an anonymous email. Claiming that Natalie's body had been putting the cage and dumped two miles offshore. Investigators ultimately ruled out delayed as other witness. Statements had filed to place Natalie or Yoron on the beach need the fishermen huts in the first place on Friday. July twenty two a handyman and to garden on ninety colossal Pinata came forward to police to provide a statement in the early hours of Monday may thirty. Khow loss was unable to sleep as it was hot. And he's apartment didn't have air conditioning. He decided to drop to his buses house where it was cooler and sometime between two thirty and three. Im He took a shortcut. The dirt road neither Mariot Hotel and came across a Gray Honda. Civic with a lodge Paul of the knee boy his head. Lots lit up the car and he sold the faces of your on. Vanda slowed and daypack Calfo in the front. Say and Sitatunga Alpo in the back. Carlos refused to saw he statement saying he wanted nothing more to do with the case and then left Aruba to go one assailing holiday upon his return to the ORLANDI newly August Carlos. Pineda spoke to the police again explaining that he hadn't come forward sooner with these information as he was nervous. He was aware of the two innocent security guards who had been taken into custody in relation to the investigation and was hesitant to draw any attention to himself. He's employer had also advised him to white before speaking with authorities due to the amount of media attention. The case was getting when it initially broke nice. Don't call losses assertions a large scale search of the area surrounding the Marriott. Hotel was carried out. Infrared technology detected a hate source in a pond near the ocean but it turned out to be a day composing shellfish on Monday August. I Beth twitty confronted Deepak Alpo in the Internet cafe where he worked. She was accompanied by a film crew from American Cable Channel. Msnbc she stood either him. Silently is several minutes before asking him a string of questions including whether he was involved in Natalie's disappearance or if he had tried to help her Beth offered him a choice between the reward. Money Wolof in prison. Daypack responded that he's lawyers had advised him to remain saw. One police suspected that Europeans best friend and to naboth Freddie's. Dan knew more than he was letting on. It had been brought to their attention that Freddie had allegedly taken explicit photographs of an underage teenager which he had done posted to his website where he referred to himself as the LOCI men pinned on Friday August. Twenty six police arrested Freddie on suspicion of committing a sex offense in the hopes it would compel him to reveal more information about what happened to Natalie. Freddie denied knowing any further details and his lawyer argued the images on his website when nothing more than a teenager wearing a bikini. Freddie's charges were dropped and he was released the same day. Olso on August twenty six. The police took a risk by ray arresting Deepak Kalpa urine had claimed that Natalie had pasta several Tom's while he was touching her an act that could be considered sex without consent. The police tried to scare the cow pie brothers into talking by threatening that they could be considered accessories to this car on but the issue of being in the same car but neither of them revealed any new information and afraid to go on Sunday. September three a magistrate determined. There wasn't enough evidence to hold your on Van de slide for that thirty days. And he was released two days later he left Aruba and relocated to. He's Titanic Yvonne. Him in the Netherlands where he moved in with a relative and enrolled in college to Study International Business Management. He's gambling habit increased and to support his addiction. He accepted payment from various media outlets to speak about the Holloway case when reflecting on his involvement to Dutch television news program AT Kearney Affairs. Urine stated our should've just steinheim and this wouldn't have happened to me. Just try to look at it. That was in the wrong place at the wrong time. 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Download Best Feigns Fray on the apple APP store or Google play. That's friends without the best feigns by September. Two thousand five. Not only Holloway had been missing for three months and not a single piece of physical evidence that emerged to indicate her whereabouts had her body being dumped it say it would have luckily washed up on shore by now bowl. Bain discovered during one of the various searches avenue. Her remains had been destroyed by marine life. Some items oh scraps of clothing would have likely surface despite investigators honing gripe fees but the missing eighteen year old. This still wasn't a shred of evidence to indicate that a crime had occurred. The reward for information was increased to one million dollars with a separate reward of one hundred thousand dollars available for the recovery of Natalie's remains the American media continued to follow Natalie's case making it the most reported news event in the United States in two thousand five an article in Vanity Fair. Todd missing what? Fay maue claimed. Natalie's disappearance received at the same amount of media coverage is the Iraq war it was also critical of the attention as it detracted from other missing person cases especially those with less public appeal. The article stated quote. Natalie story has all the elements. The justice shows a door and innocent victim missing. Well murdered avenging. Loved ones and a handsome white male suspect throwing a gaggle of luckless cops and Colorful Manga characters said at all in an island paradise and you have the cons of real loft mystery that Capes. Americans glued to their seats. Dave Holloway Light has said in his book though some view Natalie as just another blunt watt American girl to whom the media tends to pay more attention than minorities people of every race into religion have come forward to extend to us. Compassion and understanding the media allowed her into everyone's high and everyone's Ha. This tragedy could have happened to anyone stroud black. What rich core Christian Jewish Muslim? Whatever there are no lines to be drawn when it comes to a parent losing child. Hopefully the media has brought that home to the world off the full months in Aruba searching for her daughter Beth twitty returned to the United States. She told reporters. It was idealistic to expect that Americans would receive the same kind of Justice. Basit's that they did at time styding. When American slave the United States we should be prepared to leave behind all of those expectations. Early October Beth perceived a voicemail one her fine from across at number the message contained a female voice saying mom help me the FBI analyzed the voice. Mail against genuine recordings of Natalie's voice and ultimately ruled it out as a hoax accusations that the Aruban police force was purposely thwarting the investigation as part of some kind of cover up ran rof in the. Us In response. Aruban officials accused medalist family of hindering their efforts claiming the pressure. I put upon law enforcement to prematurely arrest. You're on Vanda and the cow pie. Brothers ruined the chances of gathering the evidence required to find that data. A Ruben. Deputy police chief Gerald Dome Peak told the media. They brought out their big guns on the very first day and they started shooting. They didn't understand the white things at Danica system. They didn't want to understand. They act blocked. I came from a world where you can just crush people. It was very harmful to our investigation. Feeling let down. By a Ruben law enforcement and the locals who no longer supported her beth cold for Americans to boycott the Orland. She believed it would encourage anyone who had information but was too scared to speak to come forward. Beth appeared on various major television networks to promote the boycott. Alleging that Aruban police weren't doing their jobs and that they refused to hand over a single pace of information regarding Nikkei's to the FBI a spokesperson for the FBI disputed disclaim telling television news channels. Say An that. The aruban police had supplied them with all relevant information and the prominence had fully supported American authorities participation in the investigation. Beth's husband Jug. Twitty was well connected with the American Republican Party and they used his connections get various politicians involved. Beth told Vanity Fair that she intended to strike against the Rubel and on Tuesday November. Right the governor of Alabama Bob Reilly held a press conference two words all Americans to boycott Aruba and called for all other states to follow. He's laid quite until their lack of law enforcement. Practices can be evaluated and until they offer some resolution in Natalie's case tourists. Not Safe in Aruba or any dodge territories a ruben prime minister Nelson Oduber. Cold the boycott preposterous and irresponsible telling the Media Aruban. Investigators have done that best to solve the mystery and the entire island doesn't deserve to be punished. We know guerrillas. We are not terrorists a few other American states including Georgia and Arkansas called for a boycott but they received no support from the Federal Guzman in response members of a rube is tourism hospitality and Public Relations Industries formed a task force to speak out against negative portrayals of the. Orland Natalie's father. Dave was against the boycott although he was disappointed with many elements of the investigation. He didn't want the actions of a small group of officials to negatively impact the Holland yet local support for Natalie's family in Aruba had since dwindled exacerbated by reports that the mountain brokaw students were poorly behaved throughout their visit in May as a resolve. The Holiday Union had told the school that their senior class was not welcome to return the following year. An aruban businessman who had previously Bannon ally and Natalie's family told Vanity Fair. They're killing rubel that go natalie. I wish she'd stayed home. I hope she's found alive there. The kid is just not worth all this trouble. This heartache is Natalie worth it is she. American psychologist turned television host. Dr Phil McGraw had been outspoken in he supportive Natalie Holloway's family having sent his own investigative team to search a robot and speak to witnesses. He advocated for the boycott of the island and on Wednesday November two appeared on American light. Not Talk show the tonight show with Jay Leno when he stated he had reason to believe Natalie was still alive and being held as a sex slave after the segment head. Dave Holloway received a phone call from a woman who claimed she had been across the street from the Holiday Inn. On the night Natalie went missing. She saw two men whom she believed to be. Some kind of royalty trying to coerce young blunt haired woman to join them. The witness didn't think anything of it at the time and left the Rubel the following morning. She then put the dots together. After saying Dr Phil like nod interview a Saudi. Prince was on the island. The Not Natalie disappeared but nothing. Further came from the laid. A private investigator and polygraph expert named Jamie Skaters was hired by Dr Phil to travel to a Roo using a hidden camera. He interviewed Deepak. Who called Natalie's slot based on the way she dressed spoke and because she chose to go driving with three strange men quiet and her mother claiming her to be the goody? Two shoes enough. These base already portions of the Hidden Camera Interview. Were read on the Dr Phil. Show with the footage showing daypack respond to the question has the weather Natalie had sex with your on. Cetaceans himself by saying she did. You'd be surprised how simple it was. He was also shine saying before. I knew where the body is. A would tell them a long time ago. Let them start the trial and get this IVA with. I don't care after the snippets of the interview. Wed Aruba officials accused the doctor. Phil's produces of editing the footage to fit their agenda in support of this claim. They released an uncut version of the tape. Which showed daypack shaking his head. And saying no when asked if not only had sex with your on CETACEANS himself de Anza Deepak agape saying you'd be surprised how simple it was was actually in response to another question in December. Two thousand five decal brothers sued the Dr Phil Show for Defamation Lawsuit. Alleging that the interview was altered to create false statements. Incriminating them in Natalie's disappearance lawyers for Dr Phil and Save the television network that aired the show disputed the allegations. The case was ultimately dismissed after a long legal battle also in December two thousand five an American woman named Tracy. Ellen contacted Natalie's family as she had been holidaying in Aruba in May two thousand five nine days before Natalie went missing Tracy took a morning stroll at six thirty along quiet stretch of beach near the Marriott Hotel as she approached the fishermen hearts a man who was naked from the waist down ran out and launched an attack. He's threatened Tracy with a stone. Grabbed her by the arm and attempted to pull her into his vehicle which was waiting nearby with the engine. Running Tracy resisted and yoed out fell attracting the attention of some local fishermen and prompting the attackers to flee. She had reported the incident to Aruban police at the time but nothing further came of it. She now whether the same person who attacked her could have something to do with. Natalie's disappearance Tracy provided an official statement to the FBI and worked with a police sketch artist to create a composite image of her attacker. She described him as being around twenty five years with a dark complexion round head almond shaped ause dark hair. A mustache and wearing all tagging metal framed glosses. The suspect sketch was circulated throughout Aruba but no identification were made a few ways light up the FBI presented Tracy with a photographic lineup. She identified her assailant immediately saying she was one hundred percent positive. It was right man in a bizarre coincidence at the Tom Tracy identified him. The suspect was already being held in custody. Eru for an expired visa. The police who were holding him run aware of his alleged involvement in the attack on Tracey Allen and that he was a potential person of interest in the Natalie Holloway. Investigation the full. Us authorities could question him. The suspect was released and immediately fled to Colombia. The theory that Natalie had been sold into the sex trade was a popular one with many suspecting. Yoron and the Kelly brothers or an unidentified kid NAPA had facilitated the transaction. There was stories of similar looking women who had been drugged in Aruba and salt to traffic is who transported them to Colombia Venezuela and surrounding Caribbean Islands to work in brothels. This theory was bolstered by a report released by the US Department of State that claimed a rubel was commonly used to traffic women and children for sexual exploitation. According to the report approximately five hundred foreign women. Some of whom had been unwillingly. Traffic currently engaged in sex work in Aruba and the island of curious l. an Aruban woman reported. She was talking on the phone one. Not when her lawn became crossed with a conversation between two men one of the men allegedly told the other he had seen a woman resembling. Natalie Holloway at a brothel in the Colombian capital city of Barguna. He wanted to report the siding to the FBI but couldn't and afi he's being would find out. He had visited a brothel. The cool itself could not be verified. Another theory was that Natalie had been recruited or traffic into the pornography industry. Investigators cast their suspicion on polled bay. An American ex PAT WHO operated a sex tourism business in Aruba under the pseudonym missed the pink pull bay offered a running tours in which he would take foreign visitors to the red light district to find a woman who fit that personal preferences. He's website touted. Prostitution is one hundred percent legal in Aruba and from personal experience. I can tell you that you will find the safest and most passionate women. In the world he weaned off that you will get unbelievable. Sex Pulled Bay also ran a photography studio in Aruba and had painstaking models to pose for him by running ads. Asking women to quote join the Party. It was all site discovered that he had returned to the United States. Shortly after Natalie Holloway's disappearance pull base of Ruben businesses. Were registered to a post office box in. Florida said the FBI obtained his fine records and kept a close eye on him with known. You laid or breakthroughs Natalie. Holloway slowly faded from the headlines. And take a case eventually went code a year later in December of two thousand. Six Beth and jug twitty filed for divorce after six years of marriage resulting in Natalie's untouched bedroom bang packed up and cleared out decorated in shades of purple and green. The room was adorned with photos of Natalie per France certificates of her achievements and collection of memorabilia from favorite movie the wizard of Oz graduation robe and several new outfits. She had bought to take your call eight. You're still hung in the closet as Beth described in her book. Lobbying Natalie a mother's testament of hope and faith Natalie loved it in here. It was her place to work and to a place of solace. It's where she eagled with friends and studied for tests. That's where she dressed for the prom. That's Natalie's in space and everything in it represents her. She was a hot working young lady full of life. Smart Gutsy determined and very dependable. She had always been that way. In two thousand seven Dutch investigators reopened the case and forensic analysts examined computers that had been confiscated from Neuron daypack instead tash following their initial arrest on June one. Two thousand five advances in forensic technology nail allowed investigators to recover their online chat history revealing some disturbing habits amongst the suspects circle of friends. The group appeared to have an obsession with picking up goes and taking them back to hotel. Rooms to photograph will video them engaging in sexual acts in their online interactions. The young men encouraged each other to commit lewd acts while referring to themselves as pimps and they a group as the IMPALA G. Kerr a room. I had also circulated around hurons Haas School. That had sparked Natalie's drink and she had died of an accidental overdose based on this new information. Investigators believed that. The three suspects did not take natalie to the bay. Is they alleged? If they intended to fill narrow encounter with the young woman. For the pimple edgy crew. The Beige wooden have provided adequate privacy or lighting. It seemed much more likely that Natalie had been taken back to Europeans detached apartment at the rear of his family's home as he's parents sometimes allowed him to have goes live. A computer analysis also revealed that when you're on returned home on the night of Natalie's disappearance he had visited various pornographic websites specialized in women having sex with men in the backseat of cars and buses. He'd also Dan loaded to pornographic films from a web saw cold nasty DOLLAS DOT com which was owned by an American production company. Code Reality Kings reality. Kings was registered to an office in Florida near the post office box belonging to SEX TOURISM OPERETTA PULL BAY AKA MR pink. Investigators considered the possibility that poll baby had been supplying videos to reality kings. Some of which may have faded Natalie but there was no evidence to support this theory pulled bay was ultimately ruled out as a suspect. He was later interviewed by Dutch. Investigators for the book the Holloway Files during which he explained that while he aimed to bear content producer he had never actually produced the single pornography video. He blamed he sudden departure from rubel on the negative impact. The Holloway case I'd on tourism the pornography link was ultimately ruled out but based on their online chat history. It's still saying plausible. That you're on and the Kelpie brothers had intended to capture footage of Natalie. She may have been killed by accident or died from a lethal combination of drugs and alcohol on Wednesday November twenty one. Two thousand seven urine was ray arrested in the Netherlands and transported to Aruba this time on suspicion of manslaughter and causing serious bodily Deepak into taste were also arrested for the same offenses prosecutors put forward that the online chat transcripts provided new evidence against the trailer but lawyers for the accused argued. There was nothing amongst them to confirm that Natalie Holloway had died or that their clients were involved. An attorney for the Kelpie brought has said it's luck trying to say. The loch ness monster exists. A judge great. There wasn't enough evidence to hold the suspects in custody. Daypack invitation were released on November thirty bowl. Urine was held for an additional wake before he was let go on. December seven only two three years after NATO disappeared her case hit headlines once again when Dutch crime reporter paid a race claimed he had a video of urine van Dislo confessing to her. Murder would soon be broadcasting at on Dutch television. A preview of the segment showed Dutch prosecutors. Reading a transcript of the alleged confession and remarking. This is very impressive. We thought to ourselves that this was a very probable chain of events but until now we lacked sufficient evidence clearly. It's the first time that he's confessed to somebody this is. He's coming Ya. The footy Jad on Sunday February three two thousand and eight seven million Dutch citizens almost half the population tuned in to watch it featured a sting de orchestrated but the race and a friend of your aunts named Patrick van Doron. Patrick had contacted the report. A month Zolia to say he didn't believe your story about what happened to Natalie and degrade too tight pod in a sting operation in exchange with thirty five thousand dollars. The installed three hidden cameras in Patrick's and captured twenty hours of footage. Over a five day period as he and Johann drive around chatting and smoking cannabis. The conversation eventually turned to the subject of Natalie. Holloway you're on confessed that he and Natalie had been having sex on the beach. When she suddenly had a seizure and died he had used a payphone to call a friend named Daury who had abode and helped him tag. Natalie's buddy out to say afterwards he wartime align. Your on told Patrick. She's dead of course a think. I'll never get caught for this. Had absolutely no bad feelings about it. I have not lost one nod of slavery. I think that I am incredibly lucky. That she has never been found because if she had been fan on Bain Day. Shit after the footage. Ed you're on tall. Dr Reporters that he had been lying to Patrick in a bid to impress him. Patrie was a former criminal turned successful businessman. Who had served time in prison for dealing drugs and on claimed? He thought the story was what Patrick wanted to he. You're on did have a friend named Daury who was tracked down. But Hey denied having anything to do with Natalie's death telling investigators he wasn't even in Aruba at the time Aruban prosecutors attempted to use the video confession to have your Andrei arrested but the request was the gnawed by a judge on account of your honor. Alleging it made the whole story out regardless Natalie's mother who had since reverted to her first married name of Beth. Holloway was of the opinion that the alleged confession was luckily true. She believed the person who had helped dispose of her daughters. Buddy was not dory but you're on Father Palace. Fan too slow Beth. Those sites decided that if the story was true Natalie might have still been alive if you're on had sought help once again you're on was facing intense public scrutiny. He told his parents he needed a fresh thought when nobody knew his name so he flew to Australia. According to the book portrait of a monster by Lisa polite saw and called Thomson he was refused entry and decided to made a friend in Thailand instead he enrolled in a university roughly twenty miles north of the bustling capital of Bangkok in November of two thousand eight European reached out to American journalist. Greta van Susteren who had covet Natalie's case extensively over the ease for her Fox News current affairs show on the record. You're on said that. For the process of twenty five thousand dollars. He was ready to confess the truth and had evidence to prove his claims. Greta production crew would Julius but they paid him in Stolman and travelled to Bangkok to conduct an interview when the cameras were rolling. Yawron stated that he sold Natalie Holloway into sex slavery and finally decided to come clean because there was a chance she could still be alive. According to your on he was in an Aruban casino in February. Two thousand five when a man aged in his thirties of it him ten thousand dollars to supply him a belonged. Woman demand didn't specify what he wanted the woman four. And you're on didn't give it much more door until three months when he met Natalie. He told the man he had found a suitable go and was ordered to bring her to the bay yacht saw at the Marriott Hotel light of that not and to call him once they arrived urine claimed that he did not intend to go through with the plan until Natalie started heating on him at Carlos and Charlie's at one. Am in front of Natalie. He called the buyer and spoke in Dutch to tell him to meet them on the beach in one. Ayla you're on tall to Natalie that we're going to the beach so he could take her out for a boat ride when the boat arrived wasn't until she was on board that she realized he wouldn't be joining her and to begin to panic. The boats sped away with Natalie on it. And you're on then called the daypack to come and pick him up. Deepak was busy chatting with his girlfriend online. So he sends -tations dead. You're on then gave each of their Kelco. Brothers one thousand dollars for their assistance. You're on claimed he's out like a fan down about this aisle and said that Nedeli had been shipped to Venezuela. He insisted that he had a wire. Transfer receipt proving. The ten thousand dollar transaction took place in addition to a second identical payment which the by a wired to him to encourage he sahlins he also had three audio types implicating his father into Aruban police officers in the cover up. He provided as autumn's to the production team who passed them on to relevant experts but their authenticity was unable to be verified. Soon after the on the record team returned to the United States. You're on sent. Greta Van Susteren. A text message signed that everything he had told her was ally he had fabricated the entire story for the money and to get back at her for relentlessly pursuing him during the two thousand five investigation regardless the interview was Ed full months later. Garnering high writings. You're on American attorney Joe. Teke Pena appeared on the show and accused journalists of exploiting his client for Harangue gains quite a few of your on ten thousand dollars tomorrow and asked him to tell fit story he would do it clearly. He's a sick kid. No one expects anyone to believe anything. This kid has to say anymore quite frankly. He's on the verge of SOCIOPATH DOT COM report painted. The race received reports that the real race in Europe had moved to Thailand. Was that a friend had told him. There was the potential to win lots of money by trafficking. Aw Women to the Netherlands to work in the sex trade. According to news website the daily based your on spent his evenings posing as a modeling agent. Name to Murphy Jenkins who was looking for exotic dances to work in High End Strip clubs in Holland going so far as having a fake. Your Business Card created in reality. Upon their arrival to Europe the unsuspecting women would be forced into sex work. After his first few weeks in Bangkok Yawron allegedly game out friends back home and bragged that he had already recruited a dozen women owning him. A fond is Faye of thirty thousand dollars very won-. He invested his money in a local coffee shop. That became a popular hangout. Students providing an easy hunting ground for him to find new recruits painted. A very soon team travelled to Bangkok and set up a hidden camera inside a hotel room capturing your on telling a group of underage women that Gudang fifteen thousand dollars a day in the Netherlands to quote. Shake your ass the women handed. I have a one thousand euros to secure other required treble documentation in November two thousand night debris said the footage but this time the journalist was accused of harming the women face it to pose potential recruits to set up your on and the footage was detained as tabloid ISM. It is being reported. The Dutch authorities launched an investigation into your on the human trafficking but did not uncover enough evidence. Apply any charges in two thousand nine. You're on continued to spend his time traveling throughout Asia to compete in various poker tournaments struggling the money. He agreed to an interview with the PAM as a Dutch reality. Tv Straw turned host of the shock value. Television Shy Tara. He agreed to undergo a polygraph test during which he claimed to have taken. Natalie to a friend's house when I snorted cocaine. She had fallen to her death from a balcony and Huron then disposed of her body in a swamp. The polygraph test indicated. He was lying prompting. You're onto storm. Dramatically off the stage. In February two thousand ten Europeans Fatheh Palace Bantu slowed was playing tennis when he suffered a fatal heart attack and died. You're on so he's Bangkok Cafe and returned to a robot to support his mother among flight in March two thousand ten Beth Holloway's Loya Joe Kelley were saved a name mouth from the neons twenty two year. Old Huron van de slide claiming. He's Bramley had running to bunny to difficulty following his father's death and he was ready to come clean about what happens. Natalie for two hundred and fifty thousand dollars urine said he would disclose the location of Natalie's remains and provide specific details about how she died. He requested an initial payment of twenty five thousand dollars with the remainder to be paid after he had provided. The information. Recognizing it as an opportunity to have your arrested for wire fraud and extortion. Kelly contacted the FBI. Who helped set up a sting on? Monday may ten and undercover agent arranged to mate your on in Aruba where he'd video camera captured him handing Iva ten thousand dollars in cash. The remaining fifty thousand dollars was wide to a bank account in neurons name with the payment in his possession. You're on took Kelly to a single story house approximately five miles from the Marriott Hotel. He claimed the house may not under construction in. May Two thousand five. And he's father had buried Natalie underneath the foundations. This information lacked any credibility as the house. You're on was referencing was just a vacant block of land. Didn't may two thousand five. You're on Saint Kelly another Ramo. Admitting everything hid said was a lie he later told Dutch newspaper. The Telegraph wanted to get back at. Natalie's family her parents of being making my life tough for five years when they offered to pay for the goals location. A thought why not four days later while the FBI prepared to charge your on with extortion. He used the twenty five thousand dollars. Extortion money to flee the country. He left his mother a note saying he had been invited to participate in a poker tournament in Peru on Sunday. May Thirty one two thousand ten fifty eight year old Ricardo. Florez awoke in his. I mean Chacarita. An affluent neighborhood in the circuit district of Lima Peru as a prominent businessman racecar driver and former president of the Peruvian Automobile Club. Ricardo's family enjoyed comfortable upper class loss. Stop in a country where much of the population was impacted by poverty. He'd been able to put all five of his children through Providence School. Take them on. I've essays vacations and provide them with money and anything else. They needed as reported in the book. Portrait of a Monster Ricardo's twenty one year old daughter Stephanie. Florez had recently asked for one thousand dollars to buy new laptop which she needed for the business administration degrade. She was studying at the University of Lima. Ricardo had obliged Abe no. He had growing concerns. That Stephanie was developing problematic. A gambling habit and would use the money at the casino. The Florez family had always enjoyed playing poker against one. Another but Stephanie had started frequenting various casinos throughout Laima and expressing a desire to become a professional poker Playa although she was incredibly smart and excelled at most things. Ricardo believed gambling as dangerous as these door had a very competitive. Saud and couldn't stand to lose Stephanie. Had spent the previous Nadia with new friends from college and to end. Ricardo looked into her bedroom. He was shocked to say she wasn't there. He called her mobile phone several times. But it went straight to voicemail by mid morning. Hey and his wife Maria Elena were panic stricken and cold everyone. They knew but no one had seen that daughter by the afternoon. They reported Stephanie to be missing as they didn't know many of her friends. They were unable to ascertain who she had spent the night with or her loss whereabouts. Stephanie was close with her family and to live a happy life making it unlikely that she had run away. Kidnapping for ransom was common in Peru with tourists and affluent families often targeted at one PM on Monday afternoon. A police officer located Stephanie's Black Jape in a poor crime-ridden neighborhood beyond the obvious thing missing was an Nintendo wave video game console that Stephanie had with her when she left her house on Saturday. But there were no signs of foul play. Stephanie's phone provider Nextel was unable to provide. Jps activity from her fine but they were able to provide a list of the most race in outgoing Kohl's ricotta Florez cold days numbers and go hard. Stephanie's friend Kerala who confirmed she had spent the day into night of Saturday with Stephanie. The too high to lunch at a restaurant visited a carnival. Play Video Games and then went out to a bar with another famous friend from college. Stephanie had dropped h of the women home at around too. I am sending Kerala a text message Iran lights let her know she had arrived. Time safely. Corolla said that Stephanie had been in possession of a large sum of money which she claimed to have one at the casino days. Prior Stephanie was nine to frequent the Atlantic casino in Miraflores. An upscale casino owned by a friend of the Flores family. The casino surveillance types were reviewed revealing. She had an actually return time after her night out with friends but instead headed straight to the poker table the footage captured her in the presence of a toll. Caucasian man whom she appeared to be somewhat familiar with at five fifteen. Am on the morning of Sunday. May thirty one surveillance cameras in the parking lot. Captured the PAD dropping off together. In Stephanie's Jacob Stuff confirmed the young man seen with Stephanie had won a small prize in a raffle draw into ended his name and possible at number on the winning ticket they retrieved the receipt revealing him to be twenty two year old. You're on Vanda slowed. The immediate concerns of local authorities. Were that you're on had been kidnapped along with Stephanie. And was also a missing person. The Natalie Holloway case had never made headlines in Peru and as he had never been charged for any crime authorities and customs officials were unaware of his history when Peruvian investigators. Google your name. They were shocked to discover he was linked to the disappearance of another young woman whom he had also Madina Casino. What's more the day? He was lost saying Stephanie mocked the five year anniversary of Natalie's disappearance hunt commenced to find your on and to the police prepared to release these remains to the media. Meanwhile a coal came in from the hotel budget hotel on the outskirts of Mira Flores. A receptionist hadn't seen the occupant of room three iron on in several days and he's bill was two days of Jude. She remembered your on Van. Slow clearly as these fair complexion and tall statue stood out amongst the other Peruvian travelers using a spic. Hey she entities room and was hit with a fail stanch. The room was in disarray. With autumn scattered throughout and the TV blaring a tennis racket was tangled amongst the bedsheets which were bundled up on the floor to the rod of the bed lane. The Blood Sartre and badly decomposed body of Stephany Flores. Wallet CEPA saw her empty of its credit. Cards and cash. News of Stephanie's Modi hit the media and an international manhunt for your on. Dan Dislike ensued immigration documents. Which checked and it was soon revealed. You're on had crossed over the border into Chile along with two Peruvian nationals. The Peruvians were tracked to Dan and declined to European. Had offered them five hundred. Us Dulles to drive him from Eka Peruvian town one hundred fifty miles south of Lamia to a rake a small Chilean town just across the border to drive took approximately fifteen hours once they had crossed into Chile. You're on claimed the ATM's wouldn't accept. He's international debit card and only provided his job is with a portion of the promised payment to compensate he handed he's escorts several personal items including he's watch so fine digital camera a bottle of Cologne Apollo shots and foot. Platto you're on Zee. Major was distributed by the Chilean media and citizens were told to be on high alert on Thursday June. Three two thousand ten a toll booth attendant outside of Zapata tunnel west of the city of curic. The sewer a tool Caucasian man. Attempting to look inconspicuous in the backseat of a taxi. Although he had slightly different head than the image of your aunt circulating in the press the attendant recognized the Dutchman and to notify the police within minutes several police 'cause descended on the highway and placed him under arrest without incident. He had since shape piece head and Dodd. He's remaining hair orange. You're on was taken to a police station in downtown. Santa Iago where he made no comment and to look calm as he was shot into this station as gathering hordes of press yelled. He's name you're on initially told the police that two on two men posing as policemen had broken into his hotel room demanding cash fearing that. He's alive. He had escaped leaving Stephanie Behind. He drove her car away from the same dumped it a few blocks away from the hotel and then fled the country. He claimed he only learned about Stephanie's death upon his arrival in Chile when he saw an article about it in the news. He soon admitted that he had met Stephanie at the Atlantic Casino. A few before her death after she won closed the ten thousand dollars in a poker tournament on May thirty. She told Huron she wasn't interested in men but asked him to help own pocus. Ghouls urine was intoxicated having consumed approximately ten alcoholic beverages and smoked cannabis when he and Stephanie decided to go back to his hotel room to play online poker. While Stephanie was playing on your computer at facebook message DOPP that read. I'm going to kill you. You Little Mongoloid your unexplained. The threat was in relation to the disappearance of Natalie. Holloway Stephanie Google to Natalie Holloway and to then panicked and started lashing out at European allegedly punching him on the left side of his head. You're on retaliated telling. The police did not want to do it. The goal intruded in private life. She had no right. She was frightened. We argued and she wanted to get away. Our grabbed her by the neck. And he'd her you're on said. He struck Stephanie. In the face. With these Rod Elbow rendering her semi unconscious there was blood everywhere which caused him to panic and to lose control. He grabbed Stephanie by the neck and started strangling her before removing. He's blood. Start to shirt and using it to suffocate her until she stopped breathing. You're on quote. Lost Control of my actions are remember what always doing. But not the motive. It was an impulsive act after receiving a blow to the head. After I responded with hitting her feed that she would go to the police. I think I'll wanted to kill her. Because I wasn't thinking following the murder. Urine left the hotel room to purchase coffee and cake. He returned to his room where he eighties meal. Whilst Stephanie's Lawfulness Buddy lie on the floor after woods he took his laptop and some cash and fled to Chile. You're on Trod Bhadra deal with investigators offering to speak truthfully about the Natalie Holloway case in exchange for being extradited back to Aruba an autopsy of Stephanie's body revealed that much of your confession was ally a car not fantastic. Injuries were consistent with having been beaten to death while the toxicology report confirmed that Yoron had not taken any drugs at the time of the vicious attack. He's claimed that he was high on cannabis was viewed as strategic as perpetrators of serious crimes in Peru a given leniency if they committed the act while under the influence of drugs. You're on Van. Dislike was held in Lima's Miguel Castro prison to await trial on Friday November. Twelve two thousand ten. An American couple vacationing in Aruba will walking along the beach near the Phoenix Hotel. Approximately one mile south from the holiday when they found what appeared to be a human jawbone with a single tooth attached the bone was determined to have originated from a young female it was sent to the Netherlands for further analysis when the attached tooth was identified as a wisdom tooth. Natalie Holloway's dental records confirm and she had already had all of wisdom teeth removed ruling out the possibility that the jewel behind belonged to her. It was checked against the rubers other missing person. Records that exposure to harsh elements made it impossible to determine the owner's identity given that an intense hurricane season had stood up. The surrounding oceans was speculated that the bank could have washed out from curious how Venezuela in June. Two thousand eleven. Dave Holloway filed a petition to have his daughter declared legally dead in order to settle Harris. Die Dave told the judge he believed Natalie was no longer alive and wanted to stop payments on her medical insurance and use a two thousand dollars college fund to help her younger brother. Beth Holloway initially opposed the petition citing a lack of evidence to indicate Natalie was deceased but changed her mind. Once she understood Dave Zien Ten. The probate judge signed the order. Officially declaring Natalie Holloway. Legally Dead Beth released a statement explaining that Dave wanted to save the order through. But she would quote. Always hope and pray for Natalie Safe Return. Dave told reporters. Hopefully this meeting today will provide some closure. We've still got a long white to go to get justice. In mid September two thousand eleven Beth Holloway and Dutch journalist paid it of race flew to Peru to visit Iran van de slowed in prison. It was the first time Beth and Huron had met face to face since the day after Natalie's disappearance but he remained tightlipped saying that any requests for mating must go through his Loya Beth than divers were accused of trying to film the interaction for television. Which bets lawyer John? Kelly denied explaining. I just think she wanted him to know she wasn't going away. This had nothing to do with the case there was a mother trying to bring her daughter home. The President of Peru Alan Garcia Perez stated that you're on would have to stand trial in Peru before any requests for extradition would be considered in an attempt to delay legal proceedings. You're on tried to enter a play of temporary insanity but on January eleven two thousand twelve. He eventually pleaded guilty to Stephanie. Flora's Murdoch he's lawyer requested a lenient sentence on the grounds that he's client had been under a significant amount of stress on that day. The murder occurred as it marked the five year anniversary of Natalie. Holloway's disappearance quite. He was pointed at and persecuted. The world had been against him but five years two days later on Friday January thirteen. You're on Van. Dislike was sentenced to serve twenty. I ease in a maximum security prison north of Lima and ordered to pay approximately seventy four thousand. Us Dulles to the floor as family a lawyer for the family who had chosen not to speak to the media throughout their ordeal told the press. This individual is Asaka. Path and to psychopath cannot be frayed. Peruvian authorities agreed to extradite your onto the United States to face charges burks. Thorson and wire fraud but not until he's twenty eight yea- sentence was complete. Prior to his conviction you're on Zmuda. Anita van slide told Dutch reporters. I believe in Karma believed that if you do things that you shouldn't do that a lot of shit happens to you. He didn't want to listen to his parents. He didn't listen to me this last time. I tried to do my best. I don't think I could have done more while in prison. You're on Van de. Slide began a relationship with twenty four year old trainee Accountant Lady Figueroa whom he met while she was visiting an incarcerated relative in July two thousand fourteen. The two married and delighted soon gave birth to that. I traveled when he allegedly threatened to kill the prison warden. Urine was transferred to the notoriously rough and on cemetry Challah Palca prison high in the Andes Lady. Figueroa spoke to the Daily Mail newspaper about the conditions. He was forced to in Juha adding that Yoron had since found God and seeking forgiveness for the evil. He had committed in the past in two thousand six. Dane Dave Holloway hired a private investigator named TJ Ward to go wherever all the evidence relating to his daughter's disappearance during which a new laid emerged a man named Gabrielle Taller Award that he's full roommate. An American named John. Ludwig had been a close friend of your aunts in two thousand five and to claim to know what happened to Natalie. Gabriel LA grade to participate in hidden camera conversations with Ludwig capturing him confessing to hoping dispose of Natalie's body Lodwick was then interviewed by award during which he claimed that on the night of Natalie's disappearance. You're on lyster drink with J. Bay a dangerous. Potty drug that produces feelings of euphoria and relaxation as well as increased social and sexual urges. According to Ludwig Natalie had subsequently Ivory Coast and choked to death on her own vomit urine had called his father. Who Helped Him Berry? Natalie's buddy behind us near the Holiday Inn? Ludwig claimed that in two thousand ten. You're on feed that. Investigators were closing in on him and offered him fifteen hundred dollars to move the buddy. Hey and Iran dug up Natalie's remains and attempted to crush bones to the point that I would be unrecognizable. They also said her skull on fire in a bid to destroy any hair fibers Ludwig then combined her remains with those of a deceased dog and took them to a crematorium where he told the worker. They belonged to his beloved pet and often two hundred dollars to let him cremate. The body afterwards. Hey and do your on borrowed a boat and headed at to say where they scuttled the ashes in collaboration with Dave Holloway and TJ Ward and Production Company decided to document the saga for six pot. Miniseries Todd the disappearance of Natalie Holloway. An excavation of the alleged burial saw it was commissioned during which full dine fragments were recovered. The bones was sent for forensic analysis with Beth agreeing to provide a saliva sample to assist with the DNA testing old. She wasn't informed that the process was being filmed for television. The Series Ed on the Oxygen Channel on Friday August Nineteen Two Thousand Sixteen forensic scientist Dr. Jason Kelsey appeared on the show to present. He's findings concluding that. Only one of the full dined samples tested positive for Human Mata conjul. Dna meaning was the only one that was human yet. That wasn't match for Natalie. Dr Kelli ASCII explained. We don't know how that person is. We don't know how long that person has been dead. It was later revealed that John. Ludwig had knowingly obtained all four bones from the remains of a wild boar the bird that tested positive for human McCoy Andrea. Dna had luckily done sigh because it had been handled by lied awake. The producers of the show allegedly knew the bones weren't human before the segment was filmed but never relied the truth to Beth. Holloway in February of two thousand Nineteen Beth filed a federal lawsuit against the producers of the show. Alleging that the disappearance of Natalie Holloway was fake. Scripted documentary subjected her to wakes of agony and uncertainty has. She waited for the results of the bone testing. She alleged the show was a quite preplanned. Foss calculated to give the impression of real time events and that many of its participants including John. Ludwig were paid for their involvement. She still at twenty million dollars in compensation damages thirty million dollars in punitive damages for their actions which the lawsuit claimed completely and utterly destroyed. The case is scheduled for trial in September. Two Thousand Twenty one month after bet. Slow suit was filed. John Ludwig attempted to kidnap a female fulmer roommate for whom he had unreciprocated. Romantic feelings. Twenty-three-year-old Emily was getting out of her car just before seven. Am WHEN LUDWIG. Impede held a knife to her throat and ordered her into her vehicle. Struggling shooed and emily managed to grab the North and stab Lodwick several times in self. Defense bleeding profusely. He fled the scene on foot but later dot from his wounds. A spokesperson for the North Point. Police Department said Emily wouldn't face any charges explaining. She was a victim. In this case this gentleman had some ill intentions. Shea wasn't going quietly. Ended ended very bad for him on Monday April sixteen. Emily appeared on the Dr Phil. Show claiming that Ludwig had previously told her that Natalie Holloway dot on the beach after having a seizure and that palace van der slight had helped these on your dispose of her body. Ludwig claimed hey later retrieved into burned natalie's remains so her body could never be found as far as the Aruban Public Prosecutor's office is concerned. The Natalie Holloway case has never been closed and will continue to be reinvestigated anytime new information surfaces prosecutor. Hans Cla told. Abc News that the cases against the European van de slide and the Kelpie brothers have been dismissed and that quote only new facts and circumstances unknown at the moment of the dismissal can lead to reopening their cases to this day. Natalie's unsolved disappearance maintains an ongoing level of public interest. Story has been covered inseparable books and movies with both of her parents. Releasing Dirani cancel the experience in dive. Holloway's book he writes. I cannot tell you how much it hurts to lose a child. There are no words to describe their feelings that choke a parent who outlives daughter. He's never supposed to happen this way. I was never prepared for this kind of pain. This type of emptiness. My heart has an insurmountable void. That used to be filled with Natalie's presence over the years Beth Holloway has helped fund several profit organizations including the Natalie Holloway Ratio Santa which provides support for the families of missing persons and the safe travels foundation which provides education services for young travellers. Her Two thousand seven book loving Natalie a mother's testament of hope and faith made it to the New York Times bestseller list and provided the inspiration for to subsequent films on the lifetime. Movie Network Bets ongoing commitment to exposing the truth about what happened to her daughter in addition to her advocacy for other missing persons and her position as the host of a lifetime. Shire cold vanished with Beth. Holloway which focused on 'em pathetically telling the true stories of abductions disappearances and other crimes. This show ran for one season and Cupboard Natalie story as well as others previously covered by case fall including case. Fifty Nine Amy Lynn Bradley and case three Laura Bobble and Ashley Freeman in Loving Nedeli. Beth wrote that the main question paper Lasca his house she manages to Cape going on her journey took volunteer door. She explained Mayan. Saw is always hope at one time or another. We've all experienced that inexplicable impoundment that enables us to move successfully from challenge to resolution with courage to guarantee that there's lot at the end of whatever tunnel trying to find out why through it's more than just feeling more than wishful thinking but let me tell you that's easy to lose faith when you're faced with bitter tragedy. It's easy to give into pain and let go of hope learned this firsthand when Natalie disappeared off the land. A lot of things about hope since then.

Dana Natalie Natalie Holloway Holiday Inn Beth twitty Aruba United States Deepak Natalie stepbrother Carlos Charlie Natalie Wood Natalie Sitatunga Brokaw Alabama Birmingham International Hotel Chains Aru Aruba Tom official Palm Beach
Silleros Viajeros 402  Rioja Alavesa

Podcast RadioViajera

44:11 min | 1 year ago

Silleros Viajeros 402 Rioja Alavesa

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20 Grand Bill

Best of The Steve Harvey Morning Show

02:28 min | 11 months ago

20 Grand Bill

"In the high stakes world of crime and justice, understanding the legal system is not optional. It's critical. Hi, I'm Philip Holloway host of the podcast sworn from tender, foot, TV and iheartradio. Last season we looked at a number of crimes and cases that highlighted issues in our legal system. This season. We have a new approach. We're tackling the problems directly. We'll look at faulty forensic science, false confessions and mandatory minimum prison sentences season. Two of sworn is underway, and it's available now. Listen on the. APP APPLE PODCASTS or wherever you get your podcasts? I guys. Here's a crazy story. A teenage boy charge nearly twenty thousand dollars to debit card between June. Fourteenth and June thirtieth this happened on twitch. He pretty much spent his mom savings. He was watching. Other people play video games. That's what he was doing. He racked up that kind of Bill Twenty Grand Yeah. I'm. Hey. I gotta ask you. When was the worst trouble you got into as a kid or that? You your parents? I didn't have to run up twenty thousand dollars on my mom credit card I what we handle credit card. We didn't have twenty thousand dollars I got. To buy some bread and a newspaper one time they gave me a dollar and I lost forty six change. I got my ass whooped so severely. Over forty six. 'cause my daddy just knew my S. had bought a donut an damn pop. He knew it You. To him without asking him. Sprint money very the money that he worked for her for an. And I told him I lost it. And I got to whip in any way, but I really didn't lose I had bought the donut. Deserving. I don't know why he didn't accept his Larry Know. He knew I was lying. I think I have some glades realm. Trending news stories coming up at thirty three minutes after the hour right after this you're listening to. Morning Show.

Philip Holloway Sprint twenty thousand dollars thirty three minutes
Ep 384 - The Nightmare Before Christmas, by Tim Burton (Bonus Episode)

Overdue

52:52 min | 1 year ago

Ep 384 - The Nightmare Before Christmas, by Tim Burton (Bonus Episode)

"This is a head gum podcast sairy plus these books you should have read by now How Holloway Hey everybody welcome to Overdo it's a podcast yes so we are here live with our patron chat supporters but we are here to also talk about a book that we both read this month Tur- Burton full full name that's very art so this is going to be a foam we don't normally listen I've become an expert Oh that's true you do have a child because after bedtime Henry will let thing a decent amount about the movie but we figured that there was since there was it's as we go Andrew during the Bush Shou the Pumpkin when something creepy is happening so people know to yeah we did last year even though are like full screen? DVD version of it is not three ninety three yes not directed by Tim Burton because he was busy with Batman there's so that includes music from Danny Elfin yet like Kathryn Harrah's in yes like trick or treating kids so this is I it was directed by Henry Celik Describe Tim Burton's like signature style what would it be because for me I would say joint like take it like a scoop of something like the way that ups and maybe some houses or all at crooked and stuff the film was released under the touchstone pictures label originally which sort of adult movies that they weren't sure wanted like the Disney the movie and and we'll talk about the book mainly but it's going to require a lot of Shen short film called the called well which films like six minutes long narrated by Vincent Price who you also and so after this came out and us when we talk about the book whatever but he envisioned it sort of as a TV yes he he was that was the main eighty four yes I think Beatles use Batman Movie Yeah Okay Yeah and then once he once nineteen ninety he came back to Disney with all his clout intact and he took a week of work and there's over a hundred and ten from Disney's perspective in an animation perspective Yuccas this was you know ninety two ninety three is urgence of Disney's traditional animated Yes films which included Little Mermaid Asian so yeah they wanted to keep doing experiments and keep doing interesting animation but Greens but still did pretty well for all of that and developed a substantial roar best visual effects and it was the first animated film to Be Nominated Gory I think so a lot of like creating that stuff and yeah offit notice that I had been googling nightmare before Christmas already but one question that you got kids and then it auto filled for me why to goth kids any goths slash rockstars worship this movie nightmare before Christmas it's an okay movie is just copycats then there's the Jack Mania anyone who is so called Gothard I won't mind like I'm going to buy NBC poster because I think it looks cool fun so no definitive answers like all the yahoo people are like why just another typical Burton drug movie you can only appreciate them of your high then somebody I'm an but not much by way of explanation yeah I want the founder of I want twenty ten like nightmare before Christmas's subsidizing their fun co Pop Audi Chris certified by proclaiming hocus pocus to be removed from online so much for the tolerant left a wo- gotten name but Salem went to our college is what I'm saying because I didn't see it when I was out because I had kind of a sheltered early we all the way through the move she loves she likes hocus pocus pretty good on like how Christmas Rudolph the red nose reindeer aw inspiration from you can see that DNA like throughout the early Disney lobbied to have Jack Skeleton Skelton Jacks count is that he has he is the original funk oh he's way too tall Tim Burton was like dog stop it and he won and giving him a like a very expressive brow like he still has yes he's a very big is and it's still expressive so yeah well should we get wins and then what we are reading is the twentieth anniversary release don't I can find no evidence this book existed before this so I don't know if there is another version that you can get that I think recorded some narration that was ultimately not used in the film Christmas and it rules because it's Patrick Patrick sewer in the early ninety s at after twenty years and adding a few additional illustrations has been a special experience. I hope you enjoy the new edition from what I'm so they're like you know you know I mean sack okay watch out chat all right it's gone great let's just is now in the movie he is the Pumpkin King yes and he runs Halloween town and he you know that it's a monarchy or Halloween town's a weird place seems to have absolute authority over every decision that gets made yes I think last time home I'll all a Gordie maybe ex- Kellington and he is sick a Halloween he's just town in the movie how in town in the movie interest sure yeah so he's just dancing those and my feet hurt from dancing those skeleton dances I don't like graveyards and I need something new to said some of this sounds to pay bills Yup true true true and then he we meet hi to now it's his it's a great questions the tombstone does say zero on it so whoever's King and the king is more of a figurehead some sort I up for just to be a figurehead so these first couple pages feel very much grinch stole Christmas friend but he kinda like yeah there's some like where where zero pops in some way but the the end result like the impact on the story around in the woods of Halloween land looking very sad Day dolorous Sam in the trees and in the book there are only three Eggnog Andrew do you remember what the other while land to celebrate a holiday or is it just the Christian holidays so there according to the Wiki that I went to there are it's Halloween is like Christmas town which will go to there's Valentine's Day town there in America centric Larry Yes Christian Center now Independence Day town also appeared so you know yeah and so people in the chat Chinese New Year Town Douala town I think the Groundhog Day town is just the movie in town yes eight tonight they might they make for some fun town Yeah Mold Day town walk me day is different but mole day is about the chemistry unit early that would be fun okay we're GONNA be hanging out in Baloney Day town which is October you could go to men make Dinner Day town which is the first Thursday of for Dis Day town that's my favorite James Bond film actually this oh I did like Donut International Dona during the day I forget what it's like the actual name for it I gotta sticker from the Federal Donuts missed it missed it Sarah suggests for twenty town which have you been to are your thing is it just can four twenty town thing like is it a town where it's five o'clock somewhere and somewhere as their Yo be bored Jack five o'clock Ington he would be board that it was five o'clock all the time is like a figurehead yes at route that rules it I guess well Asia and Yeah Independence Day towns Prankul Sam right that's guilt people into going into the armed forces just like going around pointing at him and looking celebrate four twenty while we were there so the thing that I was good at John Back to the story of today he and everybody's Got Candy Oh that's portal that he falls you that's the that's the thing boop boop Ubu which might I think that is the Elf menaced yes it really manner and are we supposed to

Tur- Burton Holloway Henry Andrew twenty years six minutes
Georgia AG requests DOJ investigate handling of Ahmaud Arbery case

Audioburst Editors Picks Feed

00:23 sec | 1 year ago

Georgia AG requests DOJ investigate handling of Ahmaud Arbery case

"Georgia Attorney General. Chris Carr has requested a federal investigation into the handling of the death of Ahmad Arbitrary. You're still a USB legal analyst Phil Holloway Attorney General of Georgia wants to look into some irregularities in the way that the case was investigated by the Way Cross Judicial Circuit de Barnhill.

Way Cross Judicial Circuit de Ahmad Arbitrary Georgia Attorney Phil Holloway Chris Carr analyst
May 30, 2005: Natalee Holloways Disappearance

Today in True Crime

14:28 min | 2 weeks ago

May 30, 2005: Natalee Holloways Disappearance

"This episode is brought to you by progressive. Are you thinking more about how to tighten up your budget. These days drivers who save by switching to progressive. Save over seven hundred dollars on average and customers can qualify for an average of six discounts. When they sign up a little off your rate each month goes a long way. Get a quote today at progressive dot com progressive casualty insurance company and affiliates national annual average insurance savings by new customer survey in twenty twenty. Potential savings will vary discounts vary and are not available in all states and situations. Today is sunday. May thirtieth twenty twenty one on this day in two thousand five high school teenager. Natalie holloway vanished while on a graduation trip in aruba. Welcome to today in true crime. A spotify original from podcast. Do the graphic nature of this killer's crimes listener. Discretion is advised. We advise extreme caution for children under thirteen. Today we're covering the disappearance of eighteen year. Old high school graduate natalie holloway. She never returned to her aruba hotel room. After a night of dancing and drinking at carlos and charlie's nightclub her friends last saw her jetting off in a gray honda with a group of young men. Let's go back to a ron. Stott aruba on monday. May thirtieth two thousand five eighteen year old. Natalie holloway had a four point oh gpa. She'd worked hard throughout her high school career and her parents wanted to celebrate her efforts so when she asked if she could join her high school classmates in aruba for the graduating class trip her folks felt she'd earned it the alabama teen flew to aruba a few days before the thirtieth she and her friends spent their days sunning on the white sand beaches at night. They went dancing and drinking at aruba's electric nightclubs. There shouldn't have been much reason to worry about safety. One hundred twenty four classmates joined natalie and seven. Adult chaperones led the trip. They all checked into the holiday inn resort on the southern coast of the island. Because she'd worked so hard over the last four years. Natalie needed to let off some steam. According to her schoolmates every morning she'd wake up and hit the bar by noon each day. She was drunk. The student's behavior was so out of hand that the holiday inn told the chaperones that the school wouldn't be allowed back the following year on the last night of the trip. Natalie hooked up with some new friends. She made on the island. One was a seventeen year old dutch student at the island's international school named joe. Ron vander sloat joe. Ron and his pals lived about fifteen minutes from the holiday inn in the nearby village of nord late in the evening. After some heavy flirting with natalie and her girlfriends yoron took the girls to carlos. And charlie's of busy club downtown together. He and natalie danced and drank. They did jello shooters with ron slurping. Them off naughtily stomach then. He bought her a few shots of one hundred. Fifty one proof rum when the bar was closed at one in the morning. Natalie decided not to head back to the hotel with her schoolmates instead. She hopped in a car with yo ron and his friends. The calvo brothers along with twenty one year old d. poc and eighteen year old. Sateesh ron dropped natalie back off at her hotel and went on their way or so. They claimed all the partying and extravagance came to an end in the early hours of the following morning. Bed headed and groggy. Not least friends filed onto the bus back to the airport but before taking off. They told the chaperones that natalie had never come back to her room the previous night. The adults raced back to the hotel to find natalie's passport and purple duffel bag. She had impact and was nowhere to be seen. The school chaperones hoped. She would somehow find their way to the airport but when she missed her plane her mom and stepdad immediately. Booked a flight to aruba. By the time they arrived a civilian surge was well underway. Natalie hadn't been missing long enough to organize an official probe with local authorities. Still hundreds of civil servants. Tourists and dutch marines scoured the island for the missing teen. They hunted by land and sea for her combing the coastlines and local waters. Natalie's parents questioned the staff at the holiday inn and carlos and charlie's eventually they were directed to your ron's apartment in nord their authorities collected dna samples from the kelp. Oh brother's car. Finally beth holloway met. Yo ron vander slowed face to face. The boy admitted he danced and drank with natalie. He said she joined him to visit a nearby lighthouse and see sharks on the way there now leeann neuron made out but she was so intoxicated. He said she kept falling asleep. After some drunken stargazing they dropped her back off at her hotel. He even took the girl's family back to the holiday inn to single out. The security guard he said took natalie inside but when they got there. The guard was nowhere to be found back at the hotel. Beth took out a picture of natalie. She pressed against your ron's chest and pleaded with him to help her find her little girl in response. The boy straightened his posture and asked beth what she wanted from him. He never offered sympathy. He never said he was sorry. There were just no leads. No good evidence and things remained as such for a long time. But natalie's mother refused to give up by june fifth local. Police had taken their first suspects into custody. They detained a few local security guards. A- party boat deejay and even your ron vander sloths father but all of them proved to be false. Leads finally authorities detained seventeen year old yoron and the kalpa brothers. The boys changed their story in custody. This time saying they left the girl on the beach to walk home about a month later. A new clue came in a hotel. Groundskeeper said he witnessed ron and the calbos digging next to a marriott hotel in the wee hours perhaps the hallways were finally onto something coming up a witness implicates. Your ron vander. Sloat the internet. What would we do without it so much information so little time and yet with all the answers available online. They're still lie. Scores of deep dark spooky secrets mysteries yet to be solved until now. This isn't click bait. This is our exclusive new. Podcasts internet urban legends. I'm lowey your evidence expert. And i'm eleanor the self-proclaimed skeptic together where the gruesome twosome salutes in search of the weirdest stories on the web. Every tuesday we investigate the internet's creepiest conundrums covering each conspiracy theory and combing through a clue two separate hoax from haunt. Whether it's the video short to make you lose your tight blank room soup or every kid's worst nightmare the terrifying truth behind disney's deaths or every parent's worst nightmare. Social media's momo challenge each episode of internet hurbon legends is chock full of disturbing details which are either truly demented or right for debunking and no matter our conclusion. We're sure to be left scared half to death. So won't you join us. Follow our newest spotify original from podcast. Internet legends listen free and exclusively on spotify. These are stressful times. You already have a lot of responsibilities but one of those responsibilities is to yourself. Self care is important so treat yourself with a bikini wax at european wax center. European wax center is the country's leading wax experts. They'll take extra special care of you and help you feel your best inside and out the secret. Their signature comfort wax. It's a proprietary blend of beeswax sourced from europe along with other skin soothing ingredients that allow for easier hair removal and a less painful experience. You'll get the best service from the true bikini wax specialists at european wax center they're certified wax specialists or expertly trained in prepping protecting and pampering your skin there so confident that you'll love their services that they offer all first time guests there. I wax for free still unsure because safety and security have always been paramount. European wax center has added enhanced health and hygiene measures for extra confidence in care. What do you have to lose other than some hair head to weck center dot com to book your reservation today. That's wax center dot com to book your reservation today and remember your first. Wax is free now back to the story on. may thirtieth two thousand five eighteen year old. Natalie holloway wet missing in aruba local. Investigators tried to unearth clues about what happened but had no reliable witnesses. But detectives kept added noting. That your ron vander slowed. Possibly the last person to see natalie alive had a story that kept changing. Unfortunately years went by with little progress in the investigation but on may tenth. Two thousand ten. Joe ron claims to have new information. He wanted to meet with the holloway's lawyer for a fee. The lawyer agreed to meet up twenty three year. Old yoron accepted ten thousand dollars. Cash from the attorney then led him to a house where he claimed his father buried natalie in the foundation. The lawyer paid yoron another fifteen thousand dollars with his earnings. Yoron jetted off to a poker tournament in peru later he'd be indicted in the united states for extortion and wire fraud from lima. Yoron contacted the holloway's again to reveal. He'd been lying. he just wanted their money soon. Afterward the five year anniversary of natalie's disappearance rolled around as if out of a movie on may thirtieth two thousand ten. Your ron vander sloat killed twenty one year old stephany florez in his hotel room in peru then he fled the country to chile. But it didn't take long for authorities to find him. He was taken back to peru and detained in lima's castro castro prison a high security national penitentiary institute within days. He confessed two years later on january. Twelfth two thousand twelve with no indication that natalie is still alive the holloway's petition to declare their daughter officially dead the next day. Yoron vandersloot was sentenced to twenty-eight years behind bars for the murder of stephanie. florez tragically the authorities. Still don't have a definite answer about what happened to holloway. Natalie's family have done their best to move on but sixteen years is a long time to go. without answers. beth holloway's life changed in an instant. When her daughter disappeared she spent the next decade and a half fighting to find out what occurred. That's summer night in aruba without a concrete story. She processes her grief through activism. Beth holloway co-founded the natalie holloway resource center. Her mission has become to help other families deal with the agony. That comes with missing their loved. Ones of course natalie's mother still holds out hope that someday she'll have the whole story till then she honors her daughter by speaking to students about safety even in the most. Celebratory moments especially during those times vigilance is key. Thanks for listening to today in true. Crime i'm vanessa. Richardson today and true. Crime is a spotify original from podcast. You can find more episodes of today in true crime and all other spotify originals. From podcast for free on spotify. We'll be back with a brand new episode tomorrow in true crime today in. True crime is a spotify original. From podcast it is executive produced by max cutler sound designed by juan boorda with production assistance by ron shapiro trent williamson carly madden and bruce kitto. Vich this episode of today and true crime was written by john. Levinson with writing assistance by terrel wells and fact checking by cheyenne lopez i'm vanessa.

natalie Natalie holloway aruba ron vander Natalie yoron carlos Old high school Stott aruba ron charlie island's international school Ron vander sloat joe ron slurping beth holloway nord Sateesh ron European wax center Sloat
101: The Cheerleader Murder Plot

Ghost Town

22:19 min | 1 year ago

101: The Cheerleader Murder Plot

"What's up comedy lovers comedy creators in comedy enthusiasts? Check OUT OUR PODCAST comedy trap house where we give you guys some inciteful booking in sometimes it's flat out stupid discussions about life. We know this world can be tough. So this podcast is here to spread laughter as a form of medicine into your homes cars office spaces or wherever your heart desires. If you need to pick me up during the week this the podcast for you could be looking for point of view like no other than look no further. Take a break from the mundane and get hilarious perspective from a few cool friends that live and work together. Side effects of this podcast could include laughter. Mental growth or burning desire to dreams subscribed to the comedy trap house in tunes or your favorite podcast and capital right. Now if you like weird and strange history as much as I do I have the podcast for you. I'm Jason Horton Host. Strange ear each episode. I break down the stretch history and cultural happenings during that year. Like nineteen seventy seven. The wow signal. Nineteen sixty three three tramps theory eighteen forty four Miller lite movement in one thousand nine hundred seven. The Phoenix Lights 1896 the shortest war two thousand four Benjamin Kyle fifteen eighteen dancing plague nine hundred eighty five the move bombing nine hundred seventy two remote viewing get your weekly weird history fixed. Pause the PODCAST. You're listening to right now. And subscribe to strange wherever you listen to podcasts. Moms POM Poms murder. I'm Jason Horton. I'm Rebecca Lieb and this is a ghost town channel view woman charged with hiring contract murderer to kill the mother of a middle school. Cheerleader is out on bond. Today highs to focus went to school say both Real Madrid season should well like the only difference. The daughter of Wanda Holloway now awaiting clout felicitate capital murder had never made the cheerleading squad burner. He store on the other hand had been on the squad to two years. Cheerleader elections coming up. The suspect in the attended victim lived around the corner from one another. She spent insured by law enforcement agencies and things like that with Trial coming today. Said that she doesn't have anything to worry about. But when someone you know once there's a contract on you just that just changes things. The twenty five hundred dollar contract was only on Mrs Heats light but investigators say at one point. Holloway considered a contract on. He's thirteen year old daughter as well. She decided against it apparently because she didn't have enough money. It was January of Nineteen. Ninety one channel. You Texas a small suburban town outside of Houston known for being quiet for their oil refineries mostly white working class. But now it's known for the murder plot of Wanda Holloway Vera Heath and two adolescent girls with big plans to make the cheerleading. Or you're ready. I mean I've seen bring it on six eighty six. Dvd You get it from a Red Box. Blu Ray though. Oh Oh that's wonderful yes. I love a good middle school. I love anything. It's kind of like with cereal. I think where the school experience really resonates with me quite a bit and this one did too though I wasn't a teenager in Texas and I certainly didn't wasn't on the cheerleading squad. Channel v Resident Wanda Holloway. Was THIRTY SEVEN SMALL. Pretty dark haired housewife. Who met her husband is a secretary eighteen. She grew up poor. She took business classes piano lessons in highschool though she tried desperately to escape she slowly embodied. The suburban Texas dream married a guy who buffer station named Tony Harper capture. Home again piano went to church. She had a son in nineteen seventy-three. She name Shane and four years later. A daughter named Shayna so really leaned into that in nineteen eighty Wanda and her husband divorced then. She married a wealthy dude from a neighboring city. Then briefly went back to her. First husband Tony and then she married another older wealthier man from channel. You named CD Holloway. Who Has Oilfield Service Company? Though he was twenty years for senior the two had been attracted to another the two had been attracted to one another when she was his choirmaster and pianist at the missionary. Baptist church the one thing on my research note is that she was always impeccably dressed and very stylish and again of that time it was very like big crimped hair like shoulder pads that kind of Rayon fabric and she kind of saw herself higher than most people in the town even though she really embodied what the town was like. I don't know if it was obvious or her. Like a hinged around that but an old neighbor of Holloway you never see wanted outside bathing a German shepherd or digging in the dirt said another friend of holidays a very bad craving for money and she loves to dress the part she was always always wanting this and that for the most part she got what she wanted but she set her sights and something else WanNa. Hallway really really really wanted her daughter. Shane it to be a cheerleader cheerleading. Texas is still like huge like we all saw cheer. That was the community college there but it was. It's still such a big part of the culture. It's way that like a girl can advance herself without being like a beauty pageant person And it's still a sport but it was still meant so much which is something that I think we lose sight of a lot of time to How big of a sport is how high profile it is even at kind of the lowest level like middle school high school which is hugely what this is about very important. This is one VERNA. Heath entered the picture and the similarities between Verna Heath and her daughter amber paralleled those of Wanda Holloway. And her daughter. Shayna both Burnett and WANNA send their daughters to the both Verna and Wanda sent their daughters to the Elf gymnastic studio where they could learn cheerleading from teachers certified by the National Cheerleading Association in an intense context where money could buy you private lessons. Equipment time You could just build your kids skill set into something that could boost both athletic capabilities and their social worth both Vernon Wanda Heather. Who's going crazy? All out for their daughters and being very close with them amber he had accompanied Furniture Grandmothers twirling studio since she was a small child and one twirling contest and she was three Wanda saw to it that Shane had private cheerleading lessons. A modeling stint at the San Jacinto Mall and a mother daughter matching outfit day. One of the costumes or one of the matching outfits was cheerleading uniform. So make sense pretty on the nose both Shayna an amber or very like two. They were pretty friendly popular weirdly close to their moms and stylish like their MOMS. They were never quite friends though. Both the mothers and daughters were friendly and of course it made a lot of sense but andrew was always just like a little bit ahead of Shayna. Shayna was vice president of the eighth grade when amber was president of the student council a little bit different but again very similar in nineteen eighty nine. Shayna was scheduled to try out for the seventh grade. Cheerleader squad at Channel News Public Junior High School WanNa had taken Shane out of channel. These Christian school a private elementary school enrolled her in the feeder elementary. Alice Johnson Junior high to assure that she'd be eligible eligible but she didn't realize was that amber who is still a channel you'd Christian would be one of China's competitors Verna got the principal's permission to let amber tryout intending to center Dallas Johnson during the three days that campaigning was allowed. Yes middle schoolers and their families campaigned to get slots on the cheerleading squad. Verna picked Amer up with private school and drove her to junior high to meet greet and lobby to her future schoolmates. Her Campaign for had flyers printed with peppermint candies attached when Wanda found out. It really fucked up. Probably made her because she wasn't good enough or fed into that you know kind of we need to dominate the world. We need to be the best but amber was also one step ahead like she always was in front of Shayna WanNa complain about amber to the school board. She pestered other parents to urge their children not to vote for the outsider as she came to call amber she even talked about getting a lawyer however she could not save child herself from disappointment with two slots open in three competitors. Ambra won a place in the team and Shane and did not. Wanda was devastated. Wanda went through a lot when she didn't make one. School Administrator had been not allowed Amer to try out Shayna would have made it the stiff competition between these two middle schoolers. We'RE GONNA GET RIGHT. Back to intimate. Today's episode is sponsored by PAYOFF DOT com. You've tried balance transfers and budgeting but high interest rates and unrelenting bill cycles. Make it almost impossible to get credit card debt on your own instead of another new savings technique. You need a clear path out of debt. And that's what a payoff. Loan can do a payoff. Loan personal loan backed by members of credit unions designed to help you pay off your credit cards with rates as low as five point nine nine. Apr LOAN AMOUNTS. Up to thirty five thousand dollars with no hidden fees and personal customer service support from payoff to help you reach your financial goals. Some of the benefits of pay off loan may also include potential credit score boost one monthly payment and savings from lower interest rates. Go to pay off dot com slash ghost town to learn more checking. Loan rates won't affect your credit score. Try something new. Pay Off your credit card debt with payoff and MLS. Id number one three nine. Six eight zero five not all. Applicants may qualify loans only available within the United States. Loan is not available in all states. Payoff works with lending partners who originated loans additional terms conditions and eligibility requirements may apply. More information is available. Go to pay off dot com slash ghost town attention all star Burns audio listeners. This is cliff Dorfman from stuck at home with cliff and Jason and the cliff. Dorfman show when I was growing up back home in Merrick. Long Island trying to plot my career for world domination in Hollywood. I would have killed for any kind of road map. Something to lay out the path that had been blazed by all these other artists before but there wasn't and I had a wing it so when I finally got to a position to my favorite artists. How the hell they did it. I thought it's my duty to share this with whoever I could. So that's what my co-host Jason Smith helped me to do every week. Jason and I put the record. The journey of some amazing prolific and talented actor artists comedian creators writers and directors to discover the critical and more often than not similar ingredients to their story that got them to where they are today to deep dive and covers events in moments that surprise even our guests. We're not only draw solid blueprint of success from each artist that can be applied to your own personal journey. We structure the narrative of the artist's own. Hollywood legend. Check out the cliff. Dorfman show wherever you get your podcast to join us. Live daily at three thirty. Pm Pacific for stuck at home with clipping Jason on the star Burns Audio Youtube. Page if you don't like it I will personally send you all of my overdue library books from high school along with a thank you note for the lovely Englander so we have a ghost town hotline. A call the hotline. It's really just a phone number. We would love to have people call in. We're going to give people a prompt. And you can call in with those specific prompts or you can say oh This week's prompt is hometown hot. So if you have anything from her hometown any legends and e weird stories. That happened to you. I love legend. I love a weird house down the block. That was creepy. Any kind of crazy haunted creepy goings on. Please give us a call. Eight seven seven eight zero four six eight five six again. That's eight seven. Seven eight zero four six eight five six call in say. Hello you don't even if you don't have any haunted hometown. Shit that's okay to say hi. We like a high shout out and we'd like to use these for a future episode. You know compiling some of so. If you're not okay with them being used you can just let us know. Hey yeah use this week. Stolen tell us about it if even if the place that you don't you don't live anymore or please do. It really doesn't matter but it's just. The theme is hometown haunts. And if you can leave your name just your first name initial anonymous and the town. You're from what you're talking about too so we can kind of kind of frame it up. We would love that and yet just another way to reach us and stay connected in this crazy world at eight seven seven eight zero four six eight five six also. We just did an interview with Patti Negri. Yeah she's from Ghost Adventures Yeah? She's from adventures packets. Cover witching hour. It's really cool. She was really fun to talk to you. We loved talking Ghosts Shit. We love talking haunted When we were out there were yeah out of this world. We are out of this world out of this world. We zoomed hard with her and were excited because we're going to be on her podcast in July and July. Yes similar record early. But we weren't mentioned her and her. Her website is Patty. Negra DOT COM. T. T. I. N. G. R. I DOT COM electrical stuff. She's on the TV show ghost adventures and she invited us to a sands at our house. Seward have some fun stuff coming up so I'm pretty excited about that. And we just recorded a bonus episode for Patriot Dot com slash. Ghost town pod Really Fun. One really weird. Oh Yeah it's already up there out. It's waiting for you waiting. It's along with other episodes turnaround years. Buying a lot of stuff to re into space. Sounds toward buying all new equipment? Revamping revamping and don't worry we're still in my apartment. Yeah we still Record about five feet from our sleep. So don't worry about that. Don't about getting rich. We do need to kind of just kind of move things around. So that's the Patriot on helps with that. Yeah definitely if you can help and then we donate some money every month and we hope you're doing well most importantly help you're keeping it together where you are yeah? La's probably too yeah. La's for Stan where we are which is good for health. Reasons for for physical health or mental health is different story. But speaking of staying where you are and sticking the landing. Oh sticking the landing. I think that sounds painful. Even saying that sounds painful. Let's get back to Texas. Shall we talk cheerleading? So the next year want to work even harder to get on the team months before the event she called her ex husband. Tony told him that she wanted to create something. Special to guarantee. Victory for Shayna. Tony came up with the idea of handing out wooden rulers and number two pencils printed with both for Shane Harper for cheerleader. I thought it was a good idea because most kids couldn't afford them. Tony said Wanda agreed anxious and excited. She called Tony. Every day until the rulers arrived then when the campaign began she took them up to school but the hands did not comply with the school election code rules. That want a would have been pretty familiar with and they were confiscated. WanNa continue to pass the rulers out a few days later. A meeting was called at the school for parents of cheerleader. Candidates Bernie Heath was in attendance. Shayna was officially disqualified. When a when Wanda learn of the decision she bed the school to reconsider but it was done somewhere during Miss. Shannon told her father that she didn't want to be treated or anymore anyway but her mom just wouldn't have it. She had made this a personal mission of hers to get her daughter on the squad months before March. Nineteen ninety-one the cheerleader tryouts for Channel View. High School Wanda was making plans. She take a job doing clerical work in high school bands director's office and she had asked at least one for advice on advancing. Shane chances as a cheerleader. She's going in from the inside eventually. Obsession letter to her ex-husband. Tony's brother Terry Harper Terry was a thirty six year old who had been married and arrested several times but had found the Lord bought a trailer and tried to Kinda just get straight generally. He also absolutely adored his niece and nephew. I want to remind you were named Shane and Chena wanted new this. She knew that her ex's brother loved kids and she explained her situation as they sat in her car outside his trailer. Terry was appalled by the idea of anything happening or doing anything illegal and told Wanda I don't do anything like that and I don't know anyone who would do a thirteen year old child and I do mean murder but then he said she had options Wanda said that she would get back to him. I thought fine Terry recalled. I just wanted to get out of the car. Things are pretty quiet till Christmas when Wanda brought up the plan again and hire a Hitman. Which freaked Terry out? Terry went directly to the Harris County Sheriff's department if anything should happen to vera or amber heath he reasoned. He wanted to be sure that he was not considered. A suspect would get back into that world. After hearing his Stories Sergeant Flint Blackwell put a wire Ontario and over the next three weeks. Police began monitoring Wanda and convinced slowly that she did intend to go through with the crime and that she was no longer shopping for a killer that she had settled tears choice of a murderer for higher. They had haggle over the price. The twenty five hundred police quoted to assassinate Verna coupled with the five thousand quoted to assassinate amber was interiors words. Just too much money for her WANNA had to choose one person to murder the daughter or the mother and figure that killing verna would leave amber too upset to compete so would take her out on the day the choose about to make the down payment that would lead to her. Arrest wanted to drop Shayna off a church and then collected a pair of diamond earrings payment. Attari she said I couldn't pull the trigger myself but I can sure do it this way. Wanda was arrested the next day and dressed impeccably taken into custody trial. WanNa try to say throughout the trial that she her desire to see. Your mom was kind of like a joke like it was hyperbolic. There was a rivalry but nobody really bought it. It came down to the tapes provided by Terry Harper. Along with his testimony. The tapes revealed the words of Holloway offering her diamond earrings in exchange for never seeing Verna Heath and channel view. Again the defense lawyer Troy mckinney. Argue that Holly's ex husband. Tony Harper had conspired with his brother to frame Holloway Holloway's convicted of solicitation of capital murder in nineteen ninety one and sentenced to fifteen years in prison but the conviction was overturned when it was discovered one of the jurors was on probation for drug released felony and should have never been allowed to serve on the jury and the whole thing was declared a mistrial trial to Holloway hired. A new defense lawyer Jackson Herman this time. Holloway admitted to the crime pleading no contest. Zimmerman successfully negotiated a plea deal for her and September ninth nine hundred eighty six state district court. Judge George Godwin sentenced Holloway to ten years in prison with a fine of ten thousand dollars. Not Too bad if you ask me along with. This hallway settled a civil suit agreeing to pay a total of one hundred and fifty thousand dollars to heath family. It was decided in court. That seventy thousand dollars would be given to burn on her husband thirty thousand dollars to the children and fifty thousand dollars to cover the legal expenses at the case on March. First Nineteen ninety-seven hollow was released after serving just six months and served remaining nine point five years on probation with a thousand hours of community service and Shayna according to mental floss. A journalist caught up with her now. Thirty four years old This is in two thousand twelve to kids. Live place called Humble Texas appropriate and so that the whole thing was a mistake and she was very sorry she seemed pretty over it. But let's circle back real quick to march twenty second nineteen ninety-one where cheerleader tryouts were held as scheduled at Channel Junior High Amer appeared and made the cut Shayna. Didn't she was too distraught to show up. And there was a documentary on this case called bringing. Don't featuring Kirsten dunst everyone I am jody. I'm Alison and we want to talk to you about our podcast. The Balloon Saloon is Adidi Blue Book Club. We actually read each book one by one and discuss every chapter in my detail gas. So you don't have to read along or you can. That's fun too. We do dramatic readings which I think is the most fun we really into the characters that duties created jody. What's been your favorite book. Read Rental Far Tiger is what about you? Are you there. God It's me. Margaret is a classic and we were just so taken with that book. Read Done Dean wi-fi lover then again. Maybe I won't a Non Judy Book Domestic Arrangement. Saddam Normal Klein otherwise known as Sheila the great tales of a fourth grade nothing forever. Who Could Forget Ralph? I'd love to forget row for kids. Report every episode in Bloom Cuckoo. Cousy break a magical space.

Holloway Holloway Vernon Wanda Heather Shayna Wan Shane Harper Tony Harper amber heath Texas Wanda Holloway Vera Heath murder Verna Heath Jason Horton Channel News Public Junior Hig Terry Harper Terry middle school high school cliff Dorfman Rebecca Lieb Benjamin Kyle Miller Channel Junior High Amer
Between the Links: Poirier vs. McGregor 2, UFC 257 Preview, Max Holloway's Masterpiece, More

The MMA Hour with Ariel Helwani

1:27:40 hr | 5 months ago

Between the Links: Poirier vs. McGregor 2, UFC 257 Preview, Max Holloway's Masterpiece, More

"The you kind of like this guy. But when you can't decide between the filet o. Fish or the big. Mac he says mortgage both thank you. You definitely mike this guy meal. Get it at mcdonald's when he get to of your faves two six bucks. Only practice in participation may vary single item regular-priced. Vox media long as network live from fighting studios. This is between the links and now your host ma. I can't the iconic voice of esther. Leonard welcomes you to a brand new edition of between the lengths year on ma fighting dot com for those of you over the past few weeks stretch between december nineteenth up until this past saturday on abc that were missing and hankering for some mixed martial arts action for the ufc. Hopefully this eighteen stretch makes it up to you because we get a fun card. On saturday. We got a card yesterday and abu dhabi. And then we're going to the big one coming up in a little over forty eight hours from right now. You have two fifty seven. The return of conor mcgregor takes on dust. And so much discuss on this special live edition of between the links to journalists will enter the virtual bt l. arena and one man will leave with the prestigious bt al title. I am excited. And we want you guys and gals involved in the program so if you see around going a certain way let us know. If there's takes you agree or disagree with let us know in the chat right now. Let us introduce the combatants will be battling it out this week on the program. First let us introduce the challenger man who released one of the most talked about stories in our sport in a long long time. It's called the cost of being the king. The story of ufc veterans spencer fisher and incredible piece of journalism. And he's also the man who is on the other side of the first call out on the show in two thousand twenty one. Let us welcome back to the panel. The deputy editor at 'em may fighting dot com. Mr steve morocco. Welcome back. thanks for having me back after mind. Pitiful performance in the first show. I didn't think it was that bad. Your little to hiring yourself. See him but now let us introduce them and more and knock around sometimes. It does that people in. That's what happens but as you can see right now. We have the reigning. You'd let's take a listen aka. Had a good stretch to start. His career is one answer in the knock around buried him forever and probably will continue to do but there is the rating defending undisputed champion. A man who makes us ask the question every week. How hot will his takes be from. Fema fighting dot com judd. Michou how are you sir. I'm doing well. I didn't invite steve to come get these and because he did so well last time he lost a lee. This going to be a walk in the park for me but you know. I'm trying to do like conor. Mcgregor showed us this morning. You now i'm trying to determine leaf. Be a more fellow and game respects game and stevens article the saverne with remark for ever feed period. And so i wanted to see him staring across the digital for me while there you have it and like i said there is a lot to discuss before we get into the action. I do want to let everybody know that. This week's live episode of between the links is brought to you by espn plus as you surely know by now. Especially if you're watching this show live. Conor mcgregor is making his long awaited. Return in a rematch against dust. Emporia at usc to fifty seven this saturday january twenty third in a little more than forty hours from my voice. Speaking into this microphone and you can watch it only on espn plus now. If you're already a subscriber you have c. Two fifty seven is available for sixty nine ninety nine or if you have not subscribed jets you can sign up right now to get. Ufc two fifty seven and espn plus annual plan for eighty nine. Ninety eight totals of doing the math correctly. You get the pay per view. Nfl year of espn plus for an additional nine hundred ninety nine. You're saving some bottle in that route so visit. Espn dot com for your in. Of course we'll be talking about that event a little bit later on in the program. But i wanna start this week with the man who stole the show on the. Us's debut on abc. this past. Saturday max holloway went into his fight with cavin cater on a to fight losing streak. Both losses were to the champion alexander. Volkov sqi the second fight in july one of the more debated fights of twenty twenty when it comes to scoring but be that as it may holloway takes the fight against the surging contender and calvin cater man. Who is probably the most improved fighter at one forty five last year. Probably the mvp division last year while we're at it and manned and max holloway deliver a dominant performance dominant decision over cater. Who was toughest hell throughout that fight. But holloway broke every single striking statistic. You can think of in that victory so steven you on the blind drought. We're going to begin with you. After the fight. Jon anik went on twitter and said in essence. I've called a lot of big fights in my day but sitting octagon side. What i saw from max. Holloway was the best singular performance. He had seen in his career sitting in that seat. So my question to you is. Would you agree with him in that sentiment and if not would you consider it. One of the all time great performances. Well you have to consider his perspective if you're sitting cage side for something like that it's going to stand out above and beyond a lot of different fights just for the sheer violence over. I can only imagine actually being next to that cage listening to the impacts that you heard that scott to be amazing and to be honest frightening and i think he actually acknowledged that at one point. But if it's me you know. I'm just watching this from a spectrum whose perspective it's great. I'll put the caveat out there that it's a fantastic performance. One of his best. Would it what. I consider it as you know the best ever. I dunno because calvin cater is a super talented fighter Has had some really big wins. But he's also proven to be beatable and the first couple of rounds of that fight. Max pretty much established the pattern that he just continued for the rest of the fight. If i'm making a choice about all time grade fights for him it's jose aldo and it's it's two performances against jose altuve because in both of those he completely beat the brakes off of one of the greatest fear if not the greatest featherweight of all time. If you look at the strength of schedule how many people as as beaten his streak you know what he's done at that point the masks faced and we had one knockout loss to connor which was thirteen seconds. Obviously that took a lot of leicester off of him. That was also peaked conor mcgregor. But if i'm picking max's best performance It's it's definitely those two aldo fights. I mean if you've if you watch this performance max's performance. It was like something you could see a guy that was learning from his mistakes. Especially ones against vulcan ops. The pair of off fights were starting slow eighties building as he gets as he goes on this time. He's not taking that chance anymore. Gone right out of the gate. He's throwing high-volume he's establishing a pace that can't be matched and diminishing is opponents spirit as they say in judging over a longer period of time so i thought it was fantastic performance the best. Maybe not jed michelle your thoughts on this. Where would you rate. This performance is all time. Great showing by. Max holloway or. We may be overrating this a little bit. I mean. I don't think it's an all time. Great showing either in the context of like ship fights just in general and not even in the context of of max holloway. Nick correct i hollow is performances over josie aldo are clearly better performances here. They're different very different. What what's happened. kind of what. They mean in the stages of their career and all of that at all the context running. It's different but meeting. Somebody's ass while impressive. It is maybe not great Depending on who. You're doing it against i. Think calvin gator's good fighter. I said it last week though. But i think calvin cater is is a good fighter who is not ever going to be like a great fighter. He is a great action fighter and will hang around that kind of top ten category forever and maybe if the cards really break right for him he might sneak his way into a title shot. But he's probably always gonna hit it a ceiling somewhere. And certainly max holloway He's found that ceiling. At least so you know. I think just doing doing what he did. All the more impressive For max hallways perspective. You know. i'm. I'm willing to say that this is one of the most impressive beat dallas. We've ever seen. I mean this is right up there with cain velasquez genius. Not those like But that that takes to tango be down. You don't just fall into an asshole. But you gotta be able to take for five rounds at calvin cater nothing but respect for that man and nothing but absolute booze and treachery for his corner and even her being because they let him take a lot of punishment that he didn't need to. And you know. I mean again to shout. sticking we're up over there. We there was a story last week about the dangers. 'em pitfalls of taking that kind of sustained beating in the neurological affects We just you know. Everyone wants to praise cowan cater and we should because of his toughness but we equally need to be condemning his corner for allowing him to take that Stephen i wanna get your take on that. Because like jet-set. You wrote this amazing piece about spencer fisher in. It's a piece that a lot of media members have referenced when they stated that this fight. This past saturday should have been stopped. Third definitely the fourth. Some even argued before the fifth round because the most people. There's no way. Kevin caterer is gonna win this fight like he was so far gone that he probably would get to the final horn. But what's the point of taking all that extra damage. What do you think like what was going through your minds. The longer this fight went on well first of all. I didn't see the fight was actually on vacation when i when it happened so i saw replay of it so i don't think i was in this sort of collective I won't say hysteria but there's a tendency when we all watch fights on twitter that we all sort of momentum bills for for a certain perspective in a certain opinion and a lotta times things start to become sort of an echo chamber that being said. Obviously it was a brutal brutal. Viking took a lot of unnecessary punishment. But look you know what's the point. That's not a fighters That's if if he had. If here is corner. Person had that perspective they wouldn't be fighters. I disagree with personally. I am the one who says what's the point. I am concerned about their long-term well-being. But i'm not a fighter. The thing is we need the referees job officials to do their job and then if we're thinking wait wait further down the line. We need to set aside help. Resources for fighters based on their natural inclinations. Latin natural instincts. Because there's going to be fighter. I mean no fighter wants to be a champion and is going to you know. Basically fight into dies is going to try and give up in the ring. They're not going to. They're not gonna say gal. I'm just going to call it you know. Throw in the towel. I don't wanna. I don't wanna come back out again. The reason these guys are there in the first place. Because they believe that they all believe that they're the best in the world and we need to take precautions as the result of that perspectives. So i'm less inclined to go after. I thought just purely from looking at the fight. That calvin was putting up a fight. It wasn't a great fight. He was obviously very diminished from taking a lot of damage but he was still landing punches. Later in the fight he wasn't completely out of it. It wasn't like i think of deal. Back or cyborg versus jan finney favorites But he was. He was getting his but kick but he was still someone. Yeah because a lot of people kind of overlook it is. I mean hallways. Numbers are just asinine like they're insane like if if someone just told me that didn't watch the fight. I wouldn't believe it that he blended that any shots but calvin cater in that fight with the amount of shots he landed. He actually broke his own record for significant strikes in that fight. Max holly war some of that throughout but still like on most nights calvin cater minded enough to win that fight. But this is a whole different beast but holloway. Jed what do we do with max. Because normally it's a tough sell to give a fighter a third title fight against somebody that you know. Beat them twice already twice in a seven months span but volkan keeps getting ready to fight. Brian tailgate ufc. Two sixty on march twenty seventh regardless of wins. Who wins that fight. It's clear for take a wins holloway's next volkan off ski wins. Are you giving him the same road like it did. Max holly do enough that no matter who wins on march twenty seventh. He is next to mine. I'm not getting anything. He is going to be next in line at this point. You know you're right. It's tough to make that sell to. Hey guys lost twice Certainly know we. We've seen it happen before with like rampage against vanderlei but that apple years down wine. That did the third fight. It's tough to make that cell but if you're ever gonna make it. These are the exact circumstances that it works. Max holloway's an all time great. He just put on a performance that literally shattered the record books for like every conceivable striking metric And they're coming off a fight. Where according to. Max eighty to ninety percent of people think he won. So you know. I think that that fine. And you can run that rematch back amid ultimately. You're sitting waiting kind of crossing your fingers at brian ortega pulls off. And then you have a weird little rock paper scissors at the top of the range. But if i was in charge wouldn't do that because as much as i watched the l. third fight. I'd watch alexander volkov away fight a hundred times because they're very clearly the two best featherweights in the world and they are. They have such unique game compared to each other. That it's always going to manifest itself in a really entertaining. Holloway is really good. I saw somebody on twitter. And i forget who it was maybe zane. Simon called called holloway. The the spiritual successor to george saint pierre and he was referring to the fact that holloway adjusts his game. Plans structured around each fighter like really unique and significant. Welcome to the first time in the first fight not came out with this tradition stance on the rematch. He tied to stand up to take away. Some of the effectiveness of the leg kicks and really successful with the But if you know if we want to call max that which i think is a pretty okay. Estimation like vulcan. He comes from a great camp. Taylor's game plans. Don't get me wrong. What really sets him apart to me. Is his ability to make invite determinations and alter his game plan based on that. And we saw that in the max rematch like success. Early with the different game plan will not how to adjust. And then max couldn't adjust to that during the fight. So i'd watch those guys fight forever because there will always be interesting will always be intriguing. There will be new different little thing. But i also think that if we watched the one hundred times bobowski probably wins a majority of those fights like that just seemed how that's going to play out to me moving forward whereas instead i wanna see max holloway at lightweight like max always been too lightweight. Once he went hammer and tongs with the garden should be the number one right now. His potentially fighting for title shot that begin. We'll talk about dustin later. I mean losing a decision to dust employ. If he moved up the way. I think that he would immediately become a top five guy in the division and they're so many invades. They're like that's what i want to see happen. But he is going to get the title. Shot at fenway degrees. Even max next fight will be it for the featherweight title. Yeah i would agree with that. I mean he's got so much history. He was a long running champion. He dethroned jose aldo. He's got the juice with the ufc you know. He's a a more solid Bankable attraction. I'm he's a fan favorite so i got no quarrel with that. You're still just not anybody else to throw against the winner. Hor teigen vulcan e like the featherweight rankings are super weird. Were like calvin one. Clearly he would have made sense while like shabib just keeps not fighting and i know that's not entirely. His fault will be just needs one win. And then he's the guy who gets the fight for a title but he keeps not getting to fight and the rest of the division is like their guys. You could put in there but nobody screaming for a title shot. That's why mascot is immediate rematch. In the first place and nothing actually substantively changed that very much. It's a lot about expediency in this. You know who they've got. Who is the most popular. Who's just coming off a big performance so it that's why it's not surprising that he might get that third fight so we will end with this because this has been quite the debate heading into this fight before the fight in now probably more than ever. We have this debate about who is the greatest rather of all time like holloway. Or is it josie. Although i know you are flying aldo flag high in the sky and you would fly this thing and attach it to an airplane if you could and fight across the country but i want you to explain yourself but i also want to ask. Is it a fair question to ask. Because sometimes we have these debates. There's only one way to settle it. And that is inside. The octagon and holloway. Didn't just be josie allthough twice. He put them away twice. So why is the answer so easily josie aldo in your eyes in. Can you understand why there may be a debate here The reason there's a debate here is because joe rogan. Jonah have just decided to call max. The greatest of all time he very clearly is like i'm not saying he's not going to be he. He is still very young man and absolutely can do like i also. Let's clarify one thing. That i think is actually really important here. John called max. The greatest featherweight champion history on the broadcast on saturday. That is objectively incorrect. Max all three title offenses josie had six or seven like that is just objectively wrong but i think it speaks to kind of the recency bias of and because oh well he kicked the shit out of although so he's obviously but josie aldo is the youngest champion in sufa ever talks about that because it's john jones but does email though the game champion like six months before john jones did from an age ranger perspective he did in the wc which was the c. Still at the time they just still weren't because of tv rights. And whatever like he's the youngest champion in us history if you're if you're being by the spirit of it not the letter of it and then he was at the top of that division and be all of the best guys in a very good division for half a decade like when you're talking about greatest of all time arguments i am on the record thinking that it'd be probably actually is in that conversation but that's purely as a fact of he is the greatest champion in the greatest division so he gets to be put in that conversation but really that argument should center around what you've accomplished over the debate over eight extended period of time the division at the top because max holloway grew up and spent five years looking at josie album. Like here's how. I beat this dude and developed a game that was kryptonite to aldo. Like holloway has just now started to get to the point. Where are i'm the guy people are coming. After i have the target now. People are developing their entire styles building a game plan around like they're just very different worlds and i think to me is super clear. I think most underrated champion. ufc history. I think he's one of the five. Probably the three greatest fighters ever from like an actual technical ability standpoint. And he's just back that up with a ton of performances and it all got washed away because it connor and that sucks so in total. I get soon. It's going to start being more conversation. If max keeps doing this to me. It is very obvious jersey. Although those best feather way. And as long as max doesn't have the title i think that that's still works against him. Steven what do you think. Where do you put holloway. On this list is he at the top is he above aldo below aldo. Like where do you put him on this list. Part of me thinks it's you know it's not just who you beat. It's wendy beat them. I think that there's an argument for max being considered the best of all time. It's the fact that he beat. Jose aldo twice at a time at that particular time in four. When it was a lot more i would say evolved. The game literally been around longer and he had maximized his talents at the time that he did against a jose aldo that he fought But if we're early going on records javadi as jeff mentioned age. It's really hard to argue against jose. I mean he's just been a josie. I should say sorry. He's just been a dominant force at the top of the featherweight division. For so long or you know what. When he was the champion he was just dominant force. Like somebody that you just couldn't imagine losing the fact that max beam was obvious a career high and put him in the conversation. But i think when you put you know the to the two schedules. Two resumes against each other. It's it's it's josie. Vance had a great question about sparring or max enacts the lack thereof sparring like. Will this be like a new trend among elite fighters. And just quickly on this. I want to ask. I don't feel like max. I don't believe that max holloway. All like i don't think he went in there with guns blazing and got into a tire with somebody and started. Throw an ams people. But there's no way. I just don't see a world where you have that kind of performance without moving around with somebody at least go on like even fifty sixty percent. I just don't buy that. He didn't spar it. All you know what i mean. Do you believe it. Sure i do think sparring matters especially when you're young in your career and your developing tactics and the ability to read people and what's going on in adjusting buddy. Max is a veteran this game for a long time like i could see him. Doing something. Similarly are replacing a certain work pads and worked handrails and stuff like that. I can totally by the didn't bar. And i do think we're gonna see more people doing didn't st bay Coming into the last one isn't he also on the going much light on the sparring thing I know robbie lawler. His whole career. Resurgence attributed a lot of that too. Hey i just stop sparring as much. Because i already are these ingrained skills. So yeah i think more fighters are going to do it. And i think more fighters should yeah. I think there's a difference between like hard sparring and no sparring like. There's probably a middle ground. Max found that's at least what i thought. And if he legitimately went into that fight without sparring in any way. That's even more ridiculous to me. But i do you feel like that. This is the trend now. stephen. We're going to either light sparring or as max aspiring We're veering away from getting in there and blasted each other in the gym. Least the hope is right. Yeah well look. i mean. they're still gonna be gyms certain coaches -servative. There's always going to be the perspective that if you wanna learn how to fight you fight and if you've got you gotta fight a lot in the guy who fights more is gonna come into the octagon more able to withstand the punishment. That could come as way. There's always gonna be that perspective but if it wasn't the trend before it certainly might be now you look at a guy you look performance like holloway's look at how he did. He did necessity. I've been doing this wrong. I think that's been the trend. In general like a jet mentioned with robbie lawler that actually took place a lot earlier than what robbie advertise. it has like. He stopped sparring. Pretty much when he had he decided. Look i know how to fight. I'm not going to spark. More was not in his later career. That was like as mid-career so you could save a lot of fighters could be making that you're talking about like things that allow you to get in the mode of fighting without actually fighting some of the hand eye coordination drills remember anderson silva doing that drill with a the little ball. He was bouncing off the wall. Things basically train your brain to find a target with your fist. You know that's what you're doing And then like you said. Mike earlier sort of a halfway point between full-contact and just moving around you know something where you get the sense of things get to build your timing but you don't have to take a lot of that head trauma that ultimately may diminish you when you get into the cage on fight night and that's what we want to see at the end of the day but also matt holliday was incredible. Kevin caters hours unbelievable. What a crazy. Twenty five minutes. That fight was in a fun. Kicks off this championship. Match-up on thank you for the question. Cynthia first points of this matchup goes to there is on the board as like. Did the drum break what what s waiting around. And we didn't even mention the fact that he liked. No luck was slipping bunches and talking like mad trash. It was amazing the ridiculous. Yeah i mean that was like part of the whole performance overall like was it an all time. Great i mean. When was the last time. You've i've never seen anything like that before. There's something about you. it's just different. Everyone knows it. You're one of a kind and that's awesome but it also makes it really hard to do your taxes. Luckily turbo tax live has a team of tax professionals. Ready to walk you through the process whether you start emceeing kids birthday parties on zoom this year and want to know if you can write off all that face paint or you need some expert advice on all this invoices you've racked up doing voiceover work for podcast ads. The experts at turbo tax live or ready for at all. Maybe you've got five questions about your taxes this year. Maybe you've got fifty or maybe you just want the pros to violent behalf. Whatever the case the folks at turbo tax live a ready saved day davis spring. Turbo tax live. Gives you the confidence that you're uniquely you. Taxes are done right into a turbo tax. Live file what the hell of an expert or let an expert filed for you support for. This podcast comes from progressive. What would you do with an extra eight hundred dollars. Buy a plane ticket. Pay down your student loan. Treat yourself to those shoes. You've been eyeing with progressive. You could find out drivers who switch and save save an average of seven hundred ninety six dollars on car insurance get your quote online at progressive dot com and see how much you can be saving national average annual car insurance savings by new customer survey to save with progressive and twenty nineteen But let us move ahead and we will put a bow on. Ufc fight island seven and ufc fight. Island aid with the very popular segment from our tape. Shows the three star segments and now we have a bigger sample sizes to choose from. If you're new to the show this is like the end of an nhl game where there's three stars awarded for their performances. And that's what we're going to do here. Oh we're gonna take a look at open fight night events and kind of mine them's agenda shoe we will. You remove mr holloway from the equation. Because he's a no brainer to make the top three. No doubt about it. So outside of max holloway. Who are your three stars coming out of. Ufc fight island seven. Eight kind of combining the two events as one like you know. I was i looking at this. It was actually own. Say difficult to choose somebody from file and seven but violate really had a lot of great performances. I did wanna space a little bit so four. Five thousand seven. I'm gonna. I'm gonna throw boy a leaching leong out there Coded santiago bonds abo I believe i call on a preview. Show our last week Certainly we were talking about it in the comments of the preview. Show he you know. Santiago buns abo was dude with a lot of hype. Two years ago came back. And everybody's still kinda thought that he was just gonna walk through a li li. I'm going to butcher this again. Li jing liam and didn't at all so when you got a guy with that march kind of build up behind him and then you can take that away one punch. I'll give you a star star. Goldstar that reforms. I wanted to give a gold star to go. But then he didn't take any advantage of it so we're talking about him Stephen can take pitcher. Wants to for me. The other two omar number of out who came in with a lot of expectations around him. He's the cousin of of he has the last name that comes with responsibility an expectation clean and he lived up to it. You know. i know he wasn't super happy with his performance. In that first round and be said some stuff kinda similar but the the thing the nervy barnard Of is actually a really good fighter. That's dude who's going to hang around with the division for awhile in the. Oc m one global champion and a habib. Junior omar really just ran through him and did get finish that fifty k. As good a debut as you could hope for from and then got around it out with mike okay. So that fight wasn't anybody's idea of like the most awesome thing to watch very very grinding grappling. But we talked about last week. And i'm not a case of still after this performance. Probably not a case bleaker. Actually but you gotta give. The man is do i mean he came in. He beat a really tough guy is going to be looking at a probably a slight bump in the rankings and his fight is going to be. Whoever it's against it will end up getting him. A title shot riley if he beats next to bonnie probably does get a title shot and but really the thing he gets the gold bar for me is. He came out on the mike. Did that work like you got to call your shot yet to take advantage of opportunities main inventing he calls koby covington with a very topical. Call out drops. Mike moves on like he did it as good as you can do it so even if it was maybe not the most exciting i think. He advanced his career by far the most of anyone. These past five six days stephen Three stars wait. You're saying that light call like dueling work like to me. That's like the lowest hanging fruit. The election is up. Your your stick is over like that's the lowest of the low hanging fruit like everybody knows you've been that low hanging fruit is i'm not trying to climb to the top of the fig tree to get the own right crap i give me that one. That's dropping off the tree right there. It's delicious it's beautiful. it's low calorie. And it has known attrition. like it's it's clearly a the easiest target. If you are a swing in for the chin there that being It's not an incorrect call out and you're going to put yourself on the next level which he has basically needs to do having won four fights now at welterweight. I mean you've got gotta like you said start swinging offenses in start getting these guys who suck up all the oxygen division or mass Are the two guys that they do. Big business for the ufc. So you gotta you gotta get to get fights with those guys to build your name bill. That sort of critical mass to a title shot so yeah. He has a in a somewhat insulting quick there earlier. I'll totally agree with you and say that he has was one of my stars. You know at the ag saudi thirty freeze until twenty two professional fights. There's a trending down and he's obviously going the opposite direction. I think he's gonna need to clean up his standup. He's gonna need to take a stand up to the next level if he's going to really contend with the top top of the division. but he's looking good. And i think the thing that i want to say the lesson that we should take from this. Never underestimate the power of more fluid in your brain. Because you know he's a guy that was really really sucked out as lightweight. An quite clearly. It had a effect on his performance. So you know these guys when once they start fighting it there the way class. They should be fighting. Lo and behold see these amazing performances. They start performing at their best who up The other one. I'm going to agree with you again. uh julianne was he was a two plus two hundred leads. Lisa plus two hundred hundred dog totally starts santiago. You gotta kinda put the the asterik addison. There that san diego had a pretty huge health. Scared was out of the cage for a long time so this was probably the wrong fight for him to come back at a comeback to but james around for awhile man like he's he's always been that guy who super tough not an easy for anybody but he loses to more talented guys. Anti-abu came up with this huge win. Streak beat a lot of really a talented talented guys. You know at an argument for being in a mixed for the for the title shot and just started him so Goldstar as as jesuit say for him and then. Finally i'll do a play a directly to the judges Because i know that there They would approve Carlos condit Because he no and it's a hard as somebody who's been around and mid not to palmer for these guys. They've been around for so long. Conduct is just he had that terrible terrible skid Took a lot of damage against robbie lawler in that fight that we all remember And i always kind of warms my heart to see like a guy like him bounce back in the octagon fight another veteran. You know Triumph in the way that he did show that he's not done so another one jackson. Wink and carlos condit. Those are my three. There's the airport stephen back to you. Because jed jed discussed less secure ago and stance he took after his win over walking. Buckley john after the way he goes and says you know what i'm i'm happy with the win in the performance. But that's it. I'm cutting this interview short. And then he goes to the media room. Twenty minutes later says happy with the win in the performance. But i'm done you know you don't wanna talk to lose the fight. We're done and just a little tease. I spoke with mr carrico earlier today. He explains why he did that and answers all those questions. So you're gonna have to wait till what the heck drops on tuesday to get. That response was brilliant. An enjoyable conversation with the man A little bit of a tease there. But what did you think of of. What a less to carrico. Did after win over walking buckley because some people thought it was like jed jed side he was like you just wasted a huge opportunity. But if you look at the youtube numbers. On findings youtube page to carry goes post-fight scrummed did always by triple. If you put reporter bashed or ex fighter bashes why reporter you can pretty much three x your traffic right. That i mean this Loves to drag. it's a it's professionals through the muck and in particular reporters who don't always make themselves look good. You know by how they ask questions what questions they ask you know when they ask them. It's it's it's a sport where you show up to a press conference and you know if any of them there's so examples of dumb questions we talk about them all the time on a chat. You know who are these guys. Where do they come from. Why are they asking what they're asking. So it's cathartic if less code ichiro go comes out and basically gives the middle finger the may media you know us. You know the fans get to live vicariously looney gap. Screw those guys you know. They do Favored the winners shit on the losers in you know yeah you know but as i said. It's not a great look. You know if you if you want a more press. You're probably gonna need to talk to us at some point. And if you're going to want a bigger platform you're going to need to have more interviews and get your name out there more so long term out of know what the what the effect is going to be. But you know it's always good for a short term pop. I will say that daycare co has no disrespect towards the media in general. So i will. That'll be the little seed planted. He explains himself. it's interesting stance but last thing before we move onto saturday. What's that instead instead. He wanted us to just go interview the dude he knocked literally unconscious jr. He knows knows that that wasn't possible. Either you'll you'll hear his reasoning. Is it actually it. Actually kinda makes sense. The more he explained it but So i wanna talk about yesterday before we move on. Ufc two fifty seven. Because like you guys mentioned michael kiosk it gets big in the main event the bonuses for that card the fight of the night super easy. Mike davis mason jones absolutely insane fight. Well-deserved give those guys like a half a mil. Because that's how good that was worley. Alvarez who didn't end up on any of the starless gets a bonus for his trifecta a body kicks to mineola says but the second performance bonus goes do amalgamate off who put it on a really tough guy. Like jet said sergei morozov before world. Finish i- villanueva sent poor venetia moreira into another universe with vicious knockout. He gets on the mike he doesn't ask for up to just says i love the ufc. I'll be at my full time job on monday. My blue car guy trying to make and take care of my family and most of the time when you say something like that that pays off. It did not here because he did not get the bonus. So gentlemen ask you. Do you agree with you. Martin amalgamate getting the bonus over villanova or should you have seizures. Been like i get this thing you are. You're an amalgamated off. You don't need the bonus. So i'm gonna equivocate very slightly because one by most metrics. I absolutely think actually gotten a bonus like it was a more visually appealing stoppage. He clearly needs it more. I don't want to speak too much for meadow but he probably is doing okay at least in that regard but i will say that i think mars performance was more impressive because i rate sergei morozov pretty well and i cannot doodoo lost three in a row so like i can see the argument in realistically. They gave it to new lamar. Because he's he's armand medoff not because it was as impressive. If you're just going on the pure aesthetics of it which i think is usually how we kind of view those those awards than yeah should've gone nyc what they did i as i like to say. Get the big fat hose job yesterday. I think the only thing i would add is if you're looking at bantamweight competition just the it's harder sometimes to get to get big impressive stoppage performances. You know. I guess what i'm trying to say. Is the light heavyweight division. It's much more frequent that these guys start slugging in one person goes out it's a punch More or easily lends itself to quick stoppages. And so when you look at it from that perspective you know yeah it was. It was more exciting sort of finish knockouts outside the home runs sport. But i think you know the like jet said it was. It was probably a function of the family name that gave him the The bonus and hopefully I get a quick turnaround and be some cash on the side. If they're still doing that. I agree. So a couple of fun events to kick off twenty twenty one which goes into this weekend we get. Ufc two fifty seven. We're gonna talk about that next but the point for round two goes to drop knoll steven morocco. He is on the board one after around two jed single tier so always the united. Always play the judges so saturday night. Let's get right to it. The rematch goes down a little over six a little under six years from the first meeting. You see one seventy eight. September of two thousand fourteen dust emporia to binge is first round knockout loss in the main event. This saturday against the big star in the sport conor mcgregor stephen. I'm going to begin with you. We're gonna talk about the matchup and kind of some of the interesting details and the build up in a moment but this morning we saw the ufc. Two fifty seven press conference. It was dustin in connor and and michael chandler and was like the four horsemen up. There is very respectful. Very different than most of these moments involving conor mcgregor a lot of mutual respect here no trash-talk much different than the first fight. What did you make of connor in dustin at the processor did anything surprise you and did you take anything away from it. I mean they're coming at it from a completely different point on earth leg. Conor mcgregor is is insanely wealthy. He's the biggest star in the sport. He is the one guy who could arguably alter the trajectory of the promotion. Like he is one guy who's like arguably bigger than The you have c. So it doesn't surprise me when he gets up and he talks about turning over a new leaf dozen com added with the same. You know vitriol of it were used to seeing from him also. He has a win over dustin pedroia. He's beaten dustin before and beaten very handily. So all of this should feel like deja vu a few What ten extra zeroes in his bank account So that's kind of perspective. I bring toyed. He obviously has some tough work ahead of him. You know depending on what happens. The division chandler hooker so get too comfortable Especially if he decides to stay active and not wait for a rematch with could beat. That might or might not come but no it wasn't. It wasn't surprising to me to see that Dustin is always been kind of a respectable guy anyways. He's not will end to get into this sort of ted and you know the first time that he fought connor. He basically said it. Something that was out of character so ultimately. I think that we look what followed. The press. conference wasn't too much of a surprise because of the guys history the context of where they're at in their careers and what sort of at stake into at this very moment. What did you think of jed. What did you think of. You know the press conference that we're not used to seeing from from conor mcgregor fight boring man. Am i probably what we're now and it's like i'm on the record. I was over a big connor. Press guy. I think a lot of his stick just never really hit home for me as much as it did. For millions upon millions of other people and this is the same thing gala sironi. It's what we got here reported. Probably we're going to get forever after this point because you know to however you want to couch it like conner only punched up really. He would respond. If you know somebody like will he decides to pop off at the mouth behind him you might hit with a glancing blow and keep it moving but you know he. He came after god because he was making a name for himself and or they had the title and he's trying to play mind games heater anymore so he doesn't need to do that and he's probably not going to but it was lame as hell that everybody else just cool with it like i get dustin boy that just two years and i'm not asking people to out step outside themselves because the only thing worst of being like triton boring in that reward is fabricating something to be cool but like dead hookers got opinions and thoughts and i know that they're not all good about conor mcgregor like he. He made the broomstick comment about chucky olives. Like he couldn't throw some granting fire with regular gifts. Something is nonsense. Like i can't figure out if it's because spiders are just out and don't wanna play the doesn't mcgregor desire. Afraid they're gonna lose. Or if everybody's just i can. I'm not i'm going to be super. Gop respectful but other ways sucks because of all the people who could talk shit about this for mcgregor. Had you got receipts on mcgregor like there's so much of it out there. Like give conor mcgregor. Young conor mcgregor pre usc conor mcgregor came in and was on the undercard of current conor mcgregor. And they were at the presser right there. He'd have been lighten his own ass up like this week. He got he got sued and nobody mentions that nobody mentions his like very troubling history outside the gauge. Like all of those topics that a young conor mcgregor would absolutely throw him. And nobody's willing to step. They're like on that stage with him. And that's super trading. 'cause like one would probably get him to answer those questions. Just in general can really not doing a lot of that evil but also like. Let's see if that works. Connor like connors always been driving the mental warfare. If somebody comes to him how he can actually handle it I don't know because. I don't think he's handed super well with the fact that habib talk shit to beat his ass so somebody else can just come to him with some real like. Maybe he's gonna balk at that. Like i don't know we should see but nobody's tested him and so it's it was boring and i didn't like it. Should we even talk anymore around. Let's go to the dirt around it all right we. We can converse amongst ourselves. But i i am curious. Jed because you know like stevens said in in like you alluded to as well conner has made millions and millions of dollars by selling fights on the microphone talking a lot and leaving you without a lot of grey hair you their loved connor on the rise. And you'd pay any amount of money to see him win or you couldn't stand his ass and you would pay any amount of money to see him get his ass. Kicked in the octagon this version of mcgregor. He's living in the moment he's doing it for the fans he's ready to entertain. Look at too far in the future. Not looking at the past so outside of him saying he's gonna win in sixty seconds. They've really been no shots fired here. No trash talk off from connor so as a fight fan. Does this make the fight itself on saturday in your is more intriguing. Are less intriguing with this buildup. They've done everything they came to make. It not intriguing are visited a gang fight just on the merits which will probably one point talk about but like the least the worst way to sell. This fight is yeah. I know already worked and i think i'm going to knock him out and sixty seconds but he's a hell of a dude cool guy knocking on stig seconds and i already did into. It's like cool. I guess like they're not doing. Nobody's selling this fight. They're trying to let it stand on its own merits and it's going to do fine. It's economy gregory. They're not going to struggle for buys here but it is definitely the the least interesting way. Anybody could have promoted despite source. I'm concerned but but he takes well okay so to think about the way. It's the most fight industry way for this thing to play out like today to play. How many times do they set things up. Like a t. Ball you know and make it so easy for the fighters and the fighters trip over there dicks nonetheless. I mean it's it's it's it's there is so the fighting industry is the red light industry of combat awards for a reason. They tried to set these things up. They make it so easy and they still managed to screw it up. You know i. Yes i it's actually would have been the better play to. Have you know doing things but these are ultimately people you know. They're not they're not it's not a script it's it's completely unscripted. And the way that things play out the way they play out very frequently the viral moments in our sport our complete accidents. And that's what makes the see so great times because it's a complete accident but the more they try to control it. The more the try they try to push people into a certain outcome. You know either happens or it happens in. It's not genuine which ends up undercutting the message in the first place while said So i want to touch on two things. We don't need to sell this fight. We don't need to sell it going. Gonna by people gonna watch connors back. Fighting does important people care and they're gonna watch it so there are two narratives that have been ver- are that has lasted longer. A one that is kind of popped up over the last week or so one is that dust emporia has improved leaps and bounds since their first fight in two thousand fourteen. That is a huge thing that is being discussed in this fight. Not being discussed. That often is connor's improvement because connor is certainly improve leaps and bounds. Since then as well. So stephen let me let me ask you. I know this is kind of a hard question to answer. But you go off your gut. And i guess is really no wrong. Answer depending on how you present it. Who would you say has improved more. Since that i by connor dustin. I would say dustin i think dustin was a very beatable featherweight and turned into a world-class class lightweight. Now he happened to run into some tremendous talent. You know probably the ones generation talent in but he the transformation is truly amazing what he was able to do and after the way. He was beaten by connor in such and such a devastating fashion. I think he's the one that you make the argument that he's completely different fighter. I think conor has always kind of the same fighter in that you know. That's a tremendously talented fighter. Like a guy with timing. You know an unbelievable sense of timing. Aided by a very healthy range advantage over a lot of his opponents but he's always been a guy with that and questionable grappling skills And a great count on the mike. So yeah. I don't even think it's close. I think the dustin is is the guy that's quite obviously most improved in. That's the reason to me why this fighting so exciting. It feels like a completely different fight as opposed to when they first bought and we were just getting a sense of how good conor mcgregor was when he was always you know when he winning started finding his strident cage warriors. I think we had a sense there of his his potential and he just further proved it as he went along dustin. I feel like again. This sort of late career resurgence. More fluid in the brain different fighter. And that's why this is so treating. What do you think jed because the odds the money coming in in vegas. They don't seem to care. How much does emporia has improved over the years because conner went from a minus one eighty favorite to now over a three to one favorite heading into saturday. Lots of money coming in on the former double champion. Are you surprised by this. Not surprised by. Because it's a conor. Mcgregor fight that he's always gonna be inflated in the odds just the one time he wasn't was against donald cerrone he should have been like a minds five thousand favorite but anybody else he's always going to get a little more juice just because of his public recognition. As far as who's improved more the honest answers we don't know we know how much does employers improved into tremendous amount We have no idea how how much your little calmer version proved he. He's done basically the same thing as entire career. He's looked pretty similar. He devon looks more healthy and lightweight. Looks like this for this fight. At least he's bulked up a little bit well as far skills and improvement he hasn't fought consistently enough in like the kind of fights that we would get to see. Oh here's how he's improving. He hasn't fought a bunch of different styles. He's mostly fought the same kind of guys and he's been able to do what he wants to do. And that frankly is a testament to how good he is or was at that time when they first fought like he was already so polished and talented confident. Conor mcgregor's improved since then because it's seven years and he's a professionally works every day like i genuinely can't say how if he's improved by lot or little like in his losses he lost to a guy who is super tough in nate diaz and then he just got be by one of the three or four greatest fighters of all time like those weren't really instructive or destructive about his level of ability. I do think actually the navy s by told us a little bit. He's a much better grappler than people think that he is although. I don't know that we consider a good grappler. i'm sure he's a competent grappler at least though But yeah i mean. We just don't know because we haven't seen him. We have never seen conor mcgregor get tested and overcome. Really like against nate d as he lost the rematch. He won early and then held on for the win. It wasn't like the point hooker where four-day was just given worked for two rounds adjusted came back and and was dominant. And that's not to say. Conor is a front runner or can't do it the way greer's played out. We haven't seen it yet. It's tough to gauge. Just how good he is. Frankly we have no actual idea. If he's even a top five lightweight we just don't stephen. Do you feel like overlooked here. Do you feel like the diamond. Is being viewed like the cubic konia amongst the masses. Heading into saturday. Ouch cubans are konia. That's quite the incident. Yeah i think it's just gonna happen. You know conner as his own planet at this point and the part of the reason why he doesn't need to get up on the microphone and do all workers because his fans do it for him. You know it's like this army of people that basically comes out for everything that he does and makes comments sections a living help. So you know he's gonna get overlooked because of the first outcome and because of just the way. Connor sort of reshapes the debate on everything. He's just a you know one of the biggest forces in the sport and you know he's got the ultimate chip in this bet. Which is that. He kicked ass the first time overlooked. Is dust emporia heading into this fight. I'm not calling the cubic zirconiums. Jed but just i don't know it's just silly reference then that probably flopped too if we're being honest here but you know how overlooked little bit Definitely i mean the you. Just referenced. The odds i think those odds are out of whack. I still ultimately probably think. Conor mcgregor wins this fight but I didn't even mention it. Because i'm just so generous but you need me a perfectly started this whole thing to just trash. James lynch who was like dustin borys not very good defensively when like he clearly has improved a massive amount because he beat max. Holloway that dude. We just talked about thrown five hundred billion strikes. I digress sorry. The point of trying to make though is like boy as better than he's getting credit for certainly but ultimately minor a matter like this might just be a bad style. Matchup mcgregor you know boy improved. A lot in mcgregor may have improved less so but he might have already just been so far at the poor. You can't catch up. I still kind of think. Conor is gonna win fight. But i think it's way closer least. Certainly the odds suggests like i said earlier. This is one of those fights. We do not need to sell you on anything. I mean storylines have been beaten to death. It's going down saturday. We get the way ins tomorrow morning. A lot of intrigue winner moves on to a title fight against somebody. Not named hubby maga made off. Because let's be honest. How does not care what happens with this. Fight is going to be living. The lavish life of retirement. He's a busy man. He does not care this fight so do not get sold. Those wolves tickets ladies and gentlemen. It's not going to happen but we're going to get ready for the final round of regulation. The point around three goes to the first of the two air horns. Jed meshu is a two-to-one we want the best of both worlds. We want a hybrid a smarter. Hybrid cloud approach with ibm helps retailers. Manage supply chains with watson. I while predicting demands with ease. The world is going hybrid with ibm. Visit ibm dot com slash hybrid cloud support for. This podcast comes from lexus. There are many names for enthusiast like aficionado fashion easter. Foodi sneaker head audio file but there's only one way to become one by going all in. That's why lexus went all in on the sports sedan. The new lexus. Is touting modern innovation with enthusiasts of all kinds in mind from its sculpted exterior form that an aficionado can appreciate to the aggressive wider stands for all those gear heads out there to the seventeenth speaker. Surround sound even an audio file will revere because the greater the obsession the greater the reward. The lexus i s all in on the sport sedan learn more at lexus. Dot com slash i s. Let's take a look at the rest of this card. of course. The co main event is getting a ton of attention. We got dan hooker and the debut in michael chandler. We got joanne calderwood versus jessica. I we got autobahn zadar and matt. Fola getting the main card shine which. I'm digging by the way i think. That's a great fight to put on the main card and then we kick it off with amanda he. Boss versus marina. Rodriguez is really good fight. So we're going to start you. What are your thoughts on the undercard. This time around. Because there's some damn good main card fights but there's also a lot of intriguing. Preliminary fights as well yemen definitely I think this is one of the cards where it would be really bad card without the two top fights on it just because all the other fighters kind of lack named barrow you but the fights themselves are are competitive at least fought. Not all of them were competitively. Let's be clear about that The still for instance kalou around choose no emotion. Projects gigging knocked out. It's only a question of how. How many minutes in. Because it's going to be in the first round so that will be fun because you're going to get to watch a super violent. Ko in the heavyweight division but as as far as like kinda the unheralded or maybe less less notable fights I mean for me. I'm looking at julia payne Sarah mcmahon is probably not going to be an interesting fight but it's really relevant fight Both of those women will have a name in the division and still matter mcmahon can win and she. She is favored to win here. Maybe one more she might find yourself contesting for the weight title. She's not that far off nausea. Hawk rust I've always had a soft spot in my heart for him in armen sarkisian is. He's really good. Fighter like the odds actually skew really heavy in their fight. And i think has a much better chance kind of odd. Make a giving him but for me. Sort of the big highlight. I'm looking forward to is actually a hugely huge difference in the odds from from the early prelims and it's also have nicholas look. Evola is kind of young new. Hot thing He's got super promising career ahead of indefinitely. This is this. Is nick lenses wheelhouse like this is where his bread is upsetting apple car of people that everybody thinks. It's the next guy like he. He's done it before Who's that due to suck now. And i can't think of his name. Package is out now. Won't back to zero keepings known him is he is. He's a cubic zirconiums featherweight now with hat while and that's the sad thing because massad was like houston do that literally i was like. Oh he's he's gonna fight for a title multiple times ishtiaq straight win one and then he rated nick leads beatnik lynch's s for twelve minutes and then just just lost and that was that was the end of his whole career basically. Because that's what nicholas does he hands prospects losses and so even though nicholas is probably at the end of his run. Here he's on a definite losing streak. Like i want to see if he can do it again because he he. He is not any less turk. The durable tough bastard that he's been before so that's the premium card fight. I'm the most looking forward to obsolete. Man i'm trying to go back. When did that happen. Which will nick lens bex. Are you sure you got the right. Guy are you thinking of darren elkins anthony there. Can we have an automatic loss. Could he just automatically forfeit zero new. Nick lampson darren. Howkins are the individual right. Like that's one of the chest one other than that. i mean. it's the same thing way. No darren help take re times the damage of leads. So you're talking about like darren elkins like have you talk about significant strikes absorbed like it's probably two times or three times Nick is actually. I mean you know. He's had some struggles please joan and do you like yeah exac. But if we're talking punching bags. I think in a different category. Stephen moore asked stephen before. I give you the point. Remember when mcgregor fought donald ceremony and people just dumped on the depth of the card like people thought that you have see essentially just gave up because they believed the promotion took this approach of connor's headlining just there. Anybody on there. By the way important to note we were supposed to get shane. Burgos versus hakim dhawadi. So i'll things considered. I think they did a pretty good job. How would you grade this undercard on paper. All connor cards are gonna be a little bit of a top heavy the fact that we have chandler hooker. The coleman event is actually a positive thing. If you think about the budget that adds to the entire event you know. They have lighter. Cards in conor mcgregor for conor mcgregor's because he costs too much money. It's like they got a. They got a budget key to. They got to try and manage their margins. And if you have conor mcgregor at the top of the car a lot of money going out. So i think that's a big part of it and you can't discount that As far as pre limb votes I kinda wanna see. What shoe face does you know. He's had a couple of losses but he was on a five win streak beforehand Was the wins over. Solid guys like arben majority being one of them. So i kinda wanna see what happens with him. against bride tomorrow is a guy who's been around forever tough guy. I think tend to think that the pain versus Mccann matches alludes leaves. Town kind of a of them have had like a lot of setbacks. over their careers. You know eating Although actually imagine one of reason fight so cancel. What i just said there but anyways i if either them. We're going to stay in in the picture at all advantage of weights. It's an interesting fight. Med from that perspective. On the other one i just wanted to mention. Not you know kind of violating the rule by amenity. Bus on a see what happens with her. I think that she's gotten some really big wins. And i wanna see if she's going to be a contender At straw and mariana marina rodriguez had some She's like in general like a really exciting fighter. Watch with a multi. So i kind of want to see what happens next. Fight see how the destroy division shakes out all right last thing on this before we moved to the knock around You know we talked about earlier. The winter verse mcgregor likely in a title fight. But if it isn't habib like who could beat so one thing that stood out from the press of this morning. And jed mentioned it although he could've gone in a little harder like in his mind. Dan hooker was really good at that press conference today. I thought he stole the show amongst the four guys. East on michael chandler. Who's photo damn good with the media like he just knows what to say when to say it all the time. It's just amazing. So let me ask you. Even if either of these guys get a win. Hooker chandler like an impressive win on saturday. How would you rate their chances of being the other half of that potential title fight. No matter what happens with mcgregor emporia no matter what happens with mcgregor employees at anelle. I think that given the current situation with could be where he's gonna end up. You know he could throw this thing out of black immediately depending on what he decides to do even though he probably won't return until later later this year if either i think chandler gets has a really impressive performance. He has the biggest likelihood because they spent a lot of money on him. And if they you know historically they spend a lot of money on new acquisitions they tend to give them. The biggest fights at biggest Vice possible as soon as possible. But yeah i think no. I don't really know how to answer that question. It's there's just there's a lot of moving parts and play. Charles charles oliveira is out there. I think he's definitely got an argument for a title shot. I don't know this isn't a forfeit. But i don't have the best answer it's okay. You know you could have just said yes. Or no and one word would have got you into the knocker anyways but my my friend lula my buddy just taxes be this so i want. He's watching so. I wanted to get your take on this. So stephen and dana white is ready to as the rock used to say in the wwf lay at the smack down on piracy. So he says that the press conference that they have somebody in their crosshairs many went on to speak to bt sport which you may have seen this clip on twitter already and he said they have this person. They're watching his house there listening to his phone calls. And if this link goes up on saturday somebody's ass getting arrested. So what do you make of all this. Do you believe dana white when he says these things is is the ufc the fbi. Like could they be watching his house. Like i mean is this like mission. Impossible here where they're like an van. It says harpic cleaner deluxe. Or something. I don't know that's kinda wack i mean. Look he's got us. Ns message out. They need this money. Honnor mcgregor's the biggest cash cow he consistently produces big revenue for them. It means more to them right now to stop pirates than than any other time. So of course they're gonna try and push this message out before this big fight It's it's funny the way they do it. The way that the drama they tried to add to it. And you know i. I can't wait to see. I can't wait to see who this guy is. Just like you know a college kid in its basement or like you know. Maybe like the like the rock himself. Maybe the rock is the guy. I don't know that would be hilarious. I mean to me. it's just. It's just another thing that they is another sort of narrative that they try to push because it benefits them right now. Jed you know when you try to pull a prank on somebody like believable for awhile and you're selling it and you're like you're buying it but then you say one thing that just took it too far and you realize that they're absolutely full of shit in that. This is a prank the whole time. I know you don't look at dana white as the most honest man on earth but in this circumstance and by the way i am not supporting the piracy game whatsoever just by the frequent pay per view in support the fighters but you don overplayed his hand here. A little bit as a general if dana says it. I believe that's not true by any is is is lie and more than that. I think i'd be right with that plan of action soon. No they have spies on this. Dudes house I certainly hope not because it's me. I'm the pirate dana. I'm the guy giving all of the people the thing. So i'm after me But no man like they're not doing name you fucking like just going to say some shit the same way that he and habib talk where habib said it. They really breast him. He come no. That didn't out happen because nothing is ever as the says this and so. This is hilarious that he thinks that they are the fbi. I guess i don't know what he's going to get prosecuted here. I doubt anybody gets caught from their new active piracy rules. Like it's still to be thing. I don't pirate paper views. It's bad because it's illegal and that's the society we live in. Where if you do illegal things that's back but you know of you can tune to animate fighting dot com or i'm going to be live blogging. All of main guard fights. Uc to fifty seven. So that's a better use of your time. If you don't have seventy five dollars to buy the view. Can i just say i think it would have been more likely on january. Twenty nine january nineteenth that the ufc would have had the resources of the fbi and the nsa and the c. i. n. whatever agencies possible but this is january twenty first and there's a new name Atop the office. Very good point. And like i said lots of ufc two fifty seven coverage coming your way over the next several days heading in during after it will continue on this show next week. So we'll move on with that set. There's no surprise here. Get the drummer already. Casey before Stephen the point around four point goes to morocco. we are all tied up and that means it's the fifth and final round or on this show. It's called the knockout round. Where one question will decide at all there will be no draws here and we are bringing back a brand new segments that went over so l. a couple of weeks to go. We're going to bring it back because it's not only fun and interesting. It doesn't just create a bunch of options but in a way it almost complete the way the championship advantage. So jed michou without having any possible idea of what the hell is going on. Would you like to go first or passed this onto stephen. I'm gonna pass it on. of course you are. of course you are okay. but it doesn't matter stephen. I'm telling her championship. Advantage really means nothing here. Because you're getting you're going different routes so we are going to welcome ladies and gentlemen to the second installment of what am i thinking here on between the links of stephen and jed they're going to be four options here you will choose a number between one and four in each number will represent a fighter or somebody involved within the sport in your sixty seconds. You have to put yourself in this person's shoes an answer the question. What am i thinking you can speak like yourself. Others have chosen to get into character. You do not have to do that but either way. This is somebody who you would probably want to hear in some form or fashion. So stephen with that said choose a number between one and four as a three okay. There's three lemme okay stephen. You're going to be speaking on behalf of the former. Ufc interim lightweight champion. A man. Who will be watching saturday night. Very very closely. You are going to be speaking as justin g- h. e. just engages. We're gonna put sixty seconds on the clock. Justin gage morocco. What are you thinking on this thursday evening. your time starts right now Yeah so i i would. I would kick the leg. This guy's not kicking the leg enough lies kicking the leg enough told like wiping. It could have thrown twelve lake kicks by now. I'm going to put my head in front of his fists. I'm going to put my head right in front of i'm going to block his face with my head. I'm just gonna keep common and you know eventually he'll fall down like cooker which move forward and actually block more punches with his head could throw punches of his own and make channel up. Yeah that's that's what i should do. That's what he do. Also if i beat this guy pretty much. I'm going to get the title shot right. I mean the ufc. Probably like a half a million dollars on him got much money. We need to renegotiate my deal with all the need to do. Anyways isn't good fire. Lot of striking going on all right. I did not expect that at all. But jed of the remaining numbers you have one two and four and there's some interesting cats in here all right one. Two or four mega selection number three mal shrek reference. It yeah you net number so just just a open up the box here. The three remaining names are toady. Ferguson nate diaz and the man you ended up choosing jed. You'll be speaking. On behalf of chucky olives aka charles oliveira another very interested party saturday nights event charles oliveira. What are you thinking on this thursday evening. Your time starts now prefaces by the saying. I'm not gonna do an accident because it might just come off races. So i really liked to not trekkie olives and this is bullshit i am clearly better than both of them inviting in the then and the komeda man i am probably the best non hoping blight weighed in the world right now given my skill set and these brownies or to get the fight for the title next like man. I really hope they know wasn't totally full of shit when he said that was impressed by me. Because that's my only chance to travel shot here. Otherwise i have to play just engaging and that stocks nobody likes riding justin king. It is hazard. It's my health. I really do. I just worked tony ferguson and rebel this sportage cuban. I should go back readily. I close my eyes charles. All actually what. I would say probably word for word sticking the exact interesting both two totally different takes on this question. And that's why. I love this run so much so now i can sit back and relax and see who's going to be the champion so we turn it on over to the judge jury the executive producer mr e. Casey liden will render the final decision from the truck. Casey you've heard sixty seconds from each of these gentlemen. You heard just engage you. Heard from charles oliveira wins great. Show joe for soft your winter steven morocco. We champion their their champion. Onorato guy i gotta tell you. I am shocked. I actually i would like a rematch. I'm one of those odd winters. Were requested rematch winning. Because i feel like. I could have done a lot better namely i just want more time to practice my just engaging impression and learn just engaging quotes and sayings which i don't think are as common places economy gregor but i appreciate it. I was really looking forward to kicking giant jet spot and here we are so. Did i hear that correctly. You're you're load is is a rematch for next week. Perhaps it is. I mean you. You got a good record. Jed like really. Like who has a record than jed overall does anybody on the king of. She's so i think it's because he's a lawyer or it was trained as a lawyer and he argues with people all the time and his general job at this website is to be a jerk. Sto- i wanna tim. Sylvia you know tim. Sylvia fighting under air loss key twice. You know if you wanna get him out of there mentally you gotta beat them twice our. I'm not a good ship because a lawyer shows on an asshole graham there'd requests to a circle but it's not directly. Yeah i've always happy to come on. And you know throw verbal hands with anybody so i would. I'll happily graciously accept the rematch with our new champion morocco. Michou to on rail next week. Stephen i will give you the floor man. You did write an incredible piece. I know we did an interview about it for a little over. Twenty minutes Two weeks ago a little little under two weeks ago but with the victory you get thirty seconds to talk about whatever it is. You wanna talk about good bad indifferent in this order. Bama ayso the floor is yours. Well first of all. I do want to thank everybody who actually read the story. It was eleven thousand words not an easy feat So very much. Appreciate all the attention that people given. And i would encourage people in general to keep thinking about this stuff and to keep a looking at this issue It is going to be a big one as we allow these guys get older and and our aging stars go into the sunset. I will say this in general. We shouldn't be deterred from watching you know. Slugfests like holloway cater. We should still enjoy them. My whole point in this in this piece is not the the this or as it is shouldn't happen but we should make concessions and allocate resources for those who had happens to the long term damage. That's what i want to take it. Out of the fighters hands allocate resources. Endless be a better sport. Essentially while said while said jed anything you want to say before the rematch. Next week now. I had my whole spiel but we actually already covered asking talked about. How jersey does goats it so we itchy. I was like wait. We gucci like michael chandler jacket at the press conferences. those some pretty pretty dope stuff But that's it ladies and gentlemen. This episode is over a jam packed edition. We went a little long. But it's a big fight week. You know we're be talking forever anyway. We will see you tomorrow. Morning at six am eastern standard time for the uk's to fifty seven way. I will be there a cable be there. Casey will be there and jose will be there. Live from abu dhabi. Stephen will not be there. I don't believe general. Thank you very much for stephen profiting off in one. Big shout out to casey lion on the production astra lynn. The iconic voice bringing us stephen a jet. I'm mike everybody lovely guest. This has been between the links. An emmy fighting production on the vox media network.

max holloway holloway max conor mcgregor josie aldo calvin jose aldo spencer fisher calvin cater espn Max holly ufc josie Conor mcgregor connor Mr steve morocco robbie lawler Michou cavin Volkov