22 Burst results for "Hollinger"
"hollinger" Discussed on Hollinger & Duncan NBA Show - NBA Basketball Podcast
"Who can dunk around the rim. Who can move his feet. Put the ball on the floor at least a little bit if there's no in front of him like that's one of the best athletes in the draft. He's strong he's someone that you can credibly put on jayson tatum or pascal. Siakam or lebron james and the finals physically and he's not going to be totally overmatched so i think just. Maybe he doesn't work out. Maybe it's field just sucks but yeah we saw. Someone is a similar profile. In jeremy granted. Choose more skilled than germany grants at name age and yes grand is a player development success story but the heat. They've fucking develop guys. Yeah yeah so. The biggest thing by far is the offensive decision making. Yeah he actually came up through the ranks as more of a three four would just shoot the ball every single time he he he was taking us at the hoop summit practices contested twos that he was trying to take with no separate. It was terrible. I agree with you. Let's see black rook forty-three asking tyrel terry. Be a sufficient replacement for seth curry on the mavs. Yeah i thought that was kind of a good deal because they they basically drafted the next. Seth curry and then traded the original one for somebody who actually plays defense so i thought that was a deal for dallas and a good deal for philadelphia. I liked that for both teams terry. It's a good situation for them. Because i'm really not sold on his handle or his ability to be like a true point guard at all but he can shoot it and i think playing next to who get opportunities to shoot it. And that's a a situation for him to succeed in houses defend. It's okay like he. He actually like even though he's small like he's tough and he fights it throws his body around and takes charges and stuff like he's he'll probably be just passable enough on that can be noah thoughts on the canard shamet nineteenth pictured. I liked it from the sense of turning it into the nineteen th pick in the draft right like i thought that was definitely a plus move for detroit and the position. They're in setting aside what they did with pick sixteen in one thousand nine like. I just thought that was a good asset play and then from the clippers perspective turning shamet into canard was more interesting because you have to pay canard sooner and so i thought that was an interesting almost like a challenge trade right where where you're basically we'd rather have luke kennard this year because we think he's maybe can do a little more on the ball and and give us a little more optionality where we're shannon really had to be off the ball but shot you know shannon had another year come at a very low number in and canard that that out. You're you're you're paying a different amount. So i thought that was..
"hollinger" Discussed on Hollinger & Duncan NBA Show - NBA Basketball Podcast
"Getting back to the bucks here is there. I mean it seems like a lot of water is being pulled in this reporting by the reporters. I think this is that something that happens like. There's no way that like if you're whoa. Josh adams will just say words because you work with john's but That like they're not aware of what's going on here and etta minimum. They are not reporting everything they know to say. Oh no Bogdanovich agreed to this deal. And maybe that's technically true right but you have to know that. There's something else going on here like. i mean. They really did it. Without his knowledge. It seems completely insane to me. And there's no way that happened right here. There's no chance that happened. Yeah so. I mean usually usually the agents are the main conduit for this information. So you know they'd be. They'd be talking to them about whether a deal happened. They'd be probably talking to a front office to confirm some stuff but the agents are usually kinda the first line. I'm very interested to see at this point whether whether this is everyone realizing oh shit. The league might get mad at us. Let's back this out and then try it again whether it's the league saying hey guys cobb i you just back this out and make sure it's not actually done until after the date or whether it's the league saying hell no you can't do this by somewhere else or whether the league saying hell no. You can't do this. Oh and by the way we're gonna find you or take away. Draft picks like there. There's kinda four gradations of this that it be based on the reporting right now. Any of those you think is more or less likely i'll choose during number three. I'll say i'll say the league. The league will probably say we can't technically prove this to the extent that we can find. You were penalized. You draft picks but we have enough circumstantial evidence that we're not gonna allow the transaction. The outcome i think is most likely. Yeah like i wouldn't. I wouldn't try and do this deal now because we're going to avoid it..
NBA Mock Draft 3.0
"And we are back talking two thousand twenty mock draft three point o our last mock draft of the year. It's draft day draft morning. What better to unwrap and a mock draft on draft morning. it's the second round. Now now's the time to confess. I'm really terrible at projecting second rounds like you know my hit rate and some drafts has been like one two three picks in the second round. It's it's so hard to keep track of the first round the wheels to sort of come off and these picks happened like every two minutes. I it's hard to really keep track. I did my best. I project where. I think particular players can go. You definitely don't really get deep into this when you're talking the nba scouts in executives about what they're going to do in the second round. They're still trying to figure out the first round as well. So i've tried to find some fits there so this is reported more chad ford speculation. Here about what's happening. The second round starts with the dallas mavericks this pick via the warriors taking malachi. Flynn the san diego state. Junior point guard One of the guys that frankly could go ten spots higher in the draft. I actually really love malachi flynn. There's kind of a lot of point guards kind of later in the first round which may push him out a little bit. But i actually think he's the guy who could step in play right away. I would actually love him in dallas. I think that'd be great. Pick for dallas at thirty one at thirty two. The charlotte hornets are on the board. They're getting this pick via the cavs. Paul read the sophomore forward center out of depaul. Have them going thirty two. This is john. Hollinger's been super high on all year. I think he's another guy who can guard positions on the floor. I really like him. Actually think he brings some stuff offensively as well. I personally like him. Better than precious. I'm right now. Could turn out to be a terrible take. But it's kind of what i think and i definitely think he could be an excellent fit. I'm in charlotte. Especially if they end up with lamelo ball and they're gonna need to add a defensive big man. As part of that package at thirty-three the minnesota timberwolves around the board. This'll be the third pick because they have to. First round picks. Tillman the junior power forward at michigan state. Everybody loves this kid. He's he's one of these guys like high floor. Low ceiling. just does his work every day. Great rebound or plays hard. I'm ken defend going. Bring be a great locker room guy is gonna find some rotation that somewhere I like him in minnesota on a team. That is trying to go forward. I think he actually adds a bit of a veteran presence to the locker room. At thirty four the philadelphia seventy sixers are on the clock. That get this. Pick via the hawks. Isaiah joe the arkansas shooting guard who is one of the best shooters in this draft. Crazy range. High volume of three point shots philadelphia. Always in need shooters. When you're going to be playing. Ben simmons on this team he certainly constructs the floor. And i'd like isaiah joe there them at thirty five the sacramento kings Via the pistons. Dan dotson to kansas sophomore guard. Who is one of the quickest players in the draft. He's an elite score excels off the getting to the basket not a great shooter a bit undersized for his position not really a point guard that's why he slides a few spots higher but could be instant offense off the bench for sacrimento at thirty five at thirty six the philadelphia seventy sixers back on the clock this time via that pick from the mix jordan aura the louisville junior who also is one of the better shooters in this draft. He has good size vers position. Good length i'm not sure exactly what else he brings to the table besides shooting but again i'm just loading philly up i with shooters at the moment at thirty seven. The washington wizards are on the board. They get this pick via the chicago. Bulls tyler bay the junior ford out of colorado who is one of the best athletes in the strath super explosive. Really hard worker on the defensive end still just kinda coming along on the offensive. And then i think that's been a concern. He's he's one of those guys that might be a little bit of a twitter. Not sure exactly what position he plays in the pros that causes him to slide. A few picks in this draft think this is still really value. and by the way when. We're talking about a lot of these guys dotson. Tillman for example malachi flan. These guys could all end up in the first round as well. Just have them the second thirty eight new york knicks via the hornets janis ramsey. The texas tech freshman guard again volume score can shoot it a little bit We're just loading the knicks up now with backward guys that can score the basketball. I'm not sure who's going to defend in new york. But he's an intriguing prospect. He's only nineteen years old. And i certainly there's upside there with the thirtieth pick in the draft at thirty nine the new orleans. Pelicans selecting this pick for the wizards. Daniela touro the minnesota sophomore center. Who had a really really strong summer season one of the more improved players in the country very skilled at big man. I'm great size. Adding just bore skill in size to this pelicans roster i'm at the moment If you remember earlier jalen smith. I'm selected at thirteen at forty. The grizzlies are on the board. This pick via the silence. This is the first pick that the grizzlies have been able to make in the twenty twenty. Nba draft a doco as a bouquet. The kansas center. Big guy seven. Seven wingspan seven footer. Really good athlete actually just dominant player in the pain. Terrible free throw. Shooter doesn't really do anything facing the basket. But when you have that size and length and athleticism. I think you get something done in. The and kind of reminds me deondraye jordan. A little bit and a little bit surprised. He doesn't go higher. I get there seems to be a penalty on the big minner plane or pain. Right now in the draft at forty one san antonio spurs back on the on the board yama dr the israeli guard nineteen year old for hop. Well tel-aviv and you know. He's such an intriguing prospect because he plays his butt off. His incredible energy is just making a difference when he's out there but he's not really a point guard. He's kind of more of a two guard in a point guards body. He's not like a great shooter. I'm athletically he's actually not bad at all but that lack of a jump shot kinda undersized i position that makes him more of a second round prospect at he absolutely wants to leave israel and come to the nba. And if it's the g. league next year and so he could be an interesting prospect for san antonio developed down the road
"hollinger" Discussed on Hollinger & Duncan NBA Show - NBA Basketball Podcast
"We're we if we're gonna take this bad salary than that's where the value is coming from in this we're gonna get picked to take on tobias harris al horford or or something like that rather than the value of chris balk. It's crazy to say. I don't even know of chris. Value has positive trade with his contract. Right now yeah i agree. I mean probably a slightly more positive trade value than than his his his partner in trade rumors russell westbrook but mad but still. It's going to be interesting. Because i mean i think if you're phoenix you kinda cross your fingers that the knicks panic straight is for westbrook and not foresee p. and so that and then you're kind of the only team left standing in okay see has to deal with you So here we go matt mic buckets. Thirty two what is feasible westbrook destination. I mean the you always say the next because any time something shiny waved in front of them they just want a grandma they just have to grab at it so i think he's certainly go with them. What what else is feasible. That's out there. What makes sense. I mean you heard earlier today. Could they do like westbrook for terry rozier or something and then from the other perspective. What makes sense for houston right. Like if you're in win now mode with houston which i think you are. Until james harden makes his trade demand a weight. I say that the then the then you really gotta think about what. What are you getting for westbrook. That makes sense from your end. So it's a really tough path To walk their You know yeah. People ask about west parola depot. I don't think it makes sense in indiana though So it doesn't make sense anywhere. Yeah he just doesn't let and the rumors of him while he wants to be. Go back to that lead ball handler role in oklahoma city. Like you can't shoot the ball outside of three feet from the basket. Like how are you going to be a point guard and run pick and roll like basically a center yet this boy and zach and it's hilarious to me that he's complaining about what things are like an used. I mean all right. You ought to complain about daryl morey and denny being gone or whatever like that that makes sense to me but and their their culture and all this but dude they traded all these picks for you and then they traded their center. Because you can't do anything unless the florist perfectly spread and like you're you're basically turning him into janas with the box with nobody around the rim and yeah. You probably can't stop anyone. 'cause you don't have a center and you can't. It's just like they bend over backwards to accommodate him and now him wanting out. It's kinda rich to me after all that totally. All right let's We have five more minutes. He was hit some more draft ones. If we can. Okay what else. What else we got here M maybe we may have. The chat may have moved on from the draft. Chad is completely abandoned. The draft when she started talking about rates. I mean the trades are kind of more interesting you can we talk about poku about what alexei poker said ski. Oh that's what he's called poku all right now. That's what i call him anyway. what do you make of thirteenth player on my board absolute swing for the fences. He could be horrible but he is by far the biggest boom bust guy in this draft. I think he could end up being really good. He's seven feet tall. He can handle the ball. He can shoot. He is about as thin as my pinkie finger. he's still really young..
"hollinger" Discussed on Hollinger & Duncan NBA Show - NBA Basketball Podcast
"Swallow you up panky can be a more athletic version of wes matthews as the defender where. He's strong he's going to compete. He'll hold up but he doesn't. You know you might get blown by on occasion. He doesn't have amazing length to contest And then the up into the concern but he also was only nineteen and Certainly a winning player. Who really helped auburn win games. And that that does mean something Especially for a guy that young. I think i would move him up a little bit higher than some people just because of what he could be as a player type where we talk comparing him to omnia out of coral higher than alibaba. Even if you might say that ati has a higher median outcome because a coral is just a player. Who if he hits on being what you want him to be hill fit in anywhere whereas obviously it's kinda like you know. Maybe he might be an evan. Four a offensive player. If you're lucky but how many teams really need that guy. Who's your fourth option. Press into services and number two option right right So and know grow has some bounce getting to the rim as well so. I haven't seen this guy yet. At all. But patrick williams rumors that he might be promised at number seven to the pistons which should be in the mo of troy. Weaver from o'casey. He also declined to say today the interview who he had worked out for yeah adding perhaps to that intrigue a bit but Total about him socially for me you i. I haven't seen. I've heard him get talked about thirty seconds. That's really all. I know about him at this so i sort of the basic outline of the tools you can see why teams are excited Youngest collegian in the draft at least of of the collegiate who can actually play six eight six nine Pretty good shooter. Handle looks okay Pretty good pretty good. Shot blocker has pretty good hands defensively. So there's a lot to like there in terms of like that switchable combo forward guy who can make threes. You know that's a very valuable player if you can turn into that if he can turn into a starting small forward especially that's a twenty million dollar player right so you know. He sort of fits that. Like and obi profile the thing. I don't see i. So i had them fourteen. I think he's a good prospect. I think he's a lot heavier on his feet and his fans want to admit that as he fills out more physically. It's just going to get worse I just don't. I just don't see the guy who can really stay with guards on the perimeter on a consistent basis. I think he's pretty much four and you know and same thing offensively. I don't think he has great feel offensively. even though he makes some plays he's able to get fouled a lot. Because i just think is. Physical tools are so good And he's gonna he's gonna make shots so i think he's a player at some level but i have trouble getting into my top ten because i think he's probably more probably more just a four at the end of the day ohka. Yeah the young octopus asked us about that one Let's let's close it out..
"hollinger" Discussed on Hollinger & Duncan NBA Show - NBA Basketball Podcast
"Your was your number four five. My number five is obi top in from dayton. Just going all in on offense here. I think he's the best offense a big the draft. He can he can do it all love his quick quick most into a three point shot. He just developed the three pointer. This last year at dayton looks really good like if you watching warm before a game. Just a really repeatable. Quick release that's going to be a weapon. Runs the floor. Really well really. Good rim runner dunker long and can elevate good passer Really good posting up. I think he'll destroy switches. So i think he's just the complete package packages offensive player so as long as teams can have a role in the nba. He's going to be fantastic. I think typing is awful. He by the of all the guys. I've looked at about eight or nine guys. I would probably have him last. Say okay so. I disagree with you on the posting up. I think he is. His lower body is so weak and his inability to get low and move. People is going to be a major problem even against switches. I think you're gonna see them. Throw throw him the ball and he's going to take a couple of dribbles not moved the guy and then have to shoot a fadeaway. I don't think like his hook. Shot is very good like his. When i watched all of his post ops the would go in every once in a while. But he wasn't like to me he wasn't getting good looks in one on one post up situations like us. His sorta take a couple of dribbles not remove and then shoot a contested. Eight foot turnaround or a hook and he wasn't really faking guys out. He wasn't moving people. I didn't like the quality of the looks. he was getting. Yeah in the ten years able is still score of those guys. 'cause he's you know those those centers for duquesne or whatever are getting drafted so that aspect. I don't really like I don't think he can really do anything facing the basket off the dribble. I think he's going to be too slow to really attack the basket unless he just has a you know a wide open runway in front of him The shooting. I think you're that's encouraging. I don't think he's. I think he could be your mid thirties guy. I don't see him as like a thirty forty percent guy on the dunks are ridiculous. Obviously i mean that's that's really nice. I don't know how great a finnish is a non dunks but when you're dunking everything That's that's brunei's but he's he just lacks any kind of fluidity To me and like his hips or so tied he's got this hunched stance that kills him on defense. Obviously as well yeah go ahead. The hips are concern. And it's a thing that teams are definitely going to look into on his on his medical..
"hollinger" Discussed on Hollinger & Duncan NBA Show - NBA Basketball Podcast
"I mean he can. You can get stuff done when he when he catches on the block or the mid post put on the floor a couple of times. Shoot a hook with either hand. I'm really interested to see where that goes so May maybe the ban compares a little off just in terms of. I think he's more offense unless defense in his peak version of him than obama's but i think there's value to be had there is like the sort of under-sized five. Who still does five. So you do you think his post up ability is good enough that you're going to throw him the ball in the block and other team center. I think he's good enough to crush switches. Certain whether you would actually bother posting up against a five. I think remains to be seen. Yeah he does have a lead was very efficient. He kinda shoots this like leaning hook. Shot doesn't really have the highest release point on it so i'm not sure how that would play against bigger players. He i think he could probably do some work against switches. Although i still think the best way to do that is like just post up right at the charge circle. Put the guy in the goal and make value as opposed to just you know backing down. I don't think that's going to be a major part of things Now one thing. I think where could go wrong for me. As if he really developed a jump shot no. Some people are higher on his shooting. Benched we didn't really see him. Shoot the ball at all this year from the outside what do you make of that aspect is game. I actually think he's got pretty decent touch. Id i saw him in. Person was able to warm up for a game at usc. I shot looks pretty decent to me. Like i think he may surprise. Some people with with How quickly space up game comes along. Yeah if he has the ability to play some four than i think. I'm a little bit more interested in him as well. I just i still what it gets down to for me is. I'm just not sure that he's going to be like this dominating defender and end at that point then. It's hard for me to take him in the top five ish area. I think you if we're talking about him. Going nine to the wizards yeah. I think that makes a lot of sense. I think he's gonna be a player you know he's not i don't think he's going to wash out completely but by any means We'll let let's talk about weisman now. He's my number two. You have a lower so this is where. I'll start with him. I believe he is despite having played three college games and being very raw. I consider him to be the highest floor prospect in this draw and i could see the mystified. Look on your face might be better. If we're just doing the pure podcasts. Here but let me win that seven. Five seven six. Wingspan bam nine. Five nine six standing reach. The guy is only getting stronger. I mean he's going to fill out to like a rip to sixty Not quite at the andre jordan level of jumper but pretty darn close to that. He runs the floor like a deer. Sorry sorry i..
"hollinger" Discussed on Hollinger & Duncan NBA Show - NBA Basketball Podcast
"Pr linked to let him know that you came from us all right. let's let's hit some questions here quickly before since we've got through three players here Let's try and focus on some of these draft crushes out here. We go my wife seen the computer. Who the hell are those guys excellent. Yes that's that's that's the reaction that we want to elicit here Any chance of a anthony bennett level. Shocker at number one or is it guaranteed to be one of the consensus top three. I do think it'll be one of the top three. Y- i mean you keep hearing that minnesota likes tires halliburton. But i only think they're doing that. New trade down scenario. I don't think taking them at one. Yeah and goonies reporting has been the expectation by everyone is that it's going to be lamelo as the number one. Pick 'em let's see here so we gotta do one of these. Is it too early for rafael stone to request a trade. that's fantastic. That's pretty good okay. Let's if lamelo ended up in golden state. Instead of minnesota. I'd feel much better about development. I've watched minnesota track record of development and it is rough. What do you say to that. I would say i mean there's a new front office there and i mean i. I'm trying to think who who minnesota picked another drafts that was like like like is it their development. That's really the rough part or is it just that the personnel decision. Well and also they've got a totally new regime in there from the era. So yeah i mean who. Did they pick chris done for a year. Levine at the fourteenth beckham's actually had a good outcome for the fourteenth patch. Reminding lip did a good job with levin. Before he ended up you know the new regime new regime came in and then they trade him to chicago actually thought flipped at a decent job developing him had him playing point guard summer league to show him some different. Looks like i thought they did an okay job with him We've got a few more here. Some of the other guys. We'll get we'll get to some of these here but let's let's hear john's number four pick on his board on yucca con woo. I think he's the best big in the draft. I think if if this was one thousand nine hundred ninety you'd have a case to go number one as the best power forward on the board. Now he's a center. Centers are devalued but his his numbers at usc. We're awesome. And they were awesome. Even though the coaches seemed hell bent on running post ups for other players. So i think he has a really good chance to almost exceed when he did in college when he got a chance to operate on. The block is really good to jump hook either hand. I think he has some shooting touch. That can develop in turn into more of a face up players as he continues to improve. Defensively is really good. Pretty good feet. Great hands catches everything. Rebounds everything Pretty good going to end a little short for a five Reminds me a lot of bam adebayo..
Some Washington DC restaurants ditching tips in favor of automatic charge
"Has forced many restaurants too close and caused others to find new ways of doing business. Some D C. Restaurants are now getting rid of tips. The writing a searched our surcharge to your Bill Eric Wang, co owner of Funny a Burmese restaurant in D. C. Because the restaurant has instituted what it calls flat 30. We took the old model of costing our goods and services and how much we charged people, and we just tacked on a Flat 30% fee on top of it, and we've eliminated Tipping Restaurant Association of Metropolitan Washington CEO Kathy Hollinger says it's an example of the way restaurants are coping with changing times. What is most important is that they are deciding what works for their business versus others suggesting what could work for their business at the restaurant that made the 30% surcharge is being used to raise compensation for the entire staff.
National New Hampshire Day with Matt and Emilio Barnard
"So each week, one of my podcast friends challenged me to find an episode related to one of those days and I'll be releasing it on the actual date occurs. So let's get to it. What is today's National Day? Hey Paul Matt. NFL. Bernard here we just got back from an awesome week into Hampshire Estate Near and dear to our hearts I'll there and my grandparents still live there. But neither of US are New Hampshire natives we have questions where in the PODCAST universe can we turn to learn more about the Grad State? Well Matin Amelio you've come to the right place but before I give a recommendation I'm going to give a little back story to everyone. When I started this podcast I decide that my guess would be podcasters not just people in the podcast. Matinee have been running mates since very early on going to last two podcasts movements together. But. He didn't have a podcast. So I never asked him to be a guest. Did Matt Start as podcasts just to be a guest on my show, the answer would be revealed later but let's talk about living free or dying I or at least pumpkins. Today. September seventh is national. New Hampshire. Day. I think a great place to start finding podcasts about New Hampshire is the outside in podcast which is made by new. Hampshire public. Radio. Now. It's not exclusively about things from New Hampshire but there are obviously New Hampshire base stories like this one. This episode talks about the Guinness Book of Records Event Were Keen New Hampshire holds a US record for most Jack Lantern in one place at one time. The town held an annual festival and everyone loved it. But as it got bigger and bigger so did the problems I mean if you've got over four thousand pumpkins around that can't be safe right? quaint was no longer the operative word. To find out what happened give it a listen, and let me know what you think by using the National New Hampshire Day Hashtag. Today's guests floral are Matin Amelia Barnard. As I mentioned Matt never had a podcast but due to the pandemic he decide to have some fun with his son with their free extra time and the Barnard's on the NBA podcast was born. In each episode Matinee, choose to colleges with well-known basketball programs and compare their famous alumni to see which school would come out on top. Many years ago I was a big college basketball fan and I still go to the big east championship every year when a pandemic isn't raging I also went to two final four tournaments many years ago. One. was in Atlanta and the other was in New Orleans, of course. So listening to this podcast gives some great of those times. For the episode I'm recommending it's the mismatch between Ucla and Oregon State. Since nothing is free in this world, I'm going to request that Matt and Amelia do an episode pitting Villanova and ruckers against each other. Short seems a little one-sided, but don't sleep on Rucker's there who history has some highlights amidst a lot of lowlights. For. Last recommendation, Matin Amelia recommend the Hollinger and Dunkin NBA show is debating the NBA's best they say and I quote.
"hollinger" Discussed on The Lowe Post
"It has been interesting to see them and again judges have been hurt for for a while now but to see them play around with. Okay do we when Simmons is off the floor do need Netto or Burke Trey Burke to play or can we just let Josh Richardson. The backup one. I think that's going to be a season long. Sort of debate for them because those guys have been all right when they played in Edinburgh have been fine. Yeah Yeah you still feel confident about that. Pick sixers to the finals. I don't know about confident. He didn't feel crazy confident about it. Even at the time I mean I think coming into the year re a reasonable take was that Philly in Milwaukee were co favorites favorites in the east. And I think Milwaukee is probably edged ahead of them in that discussion I do. I do think though I mean playoff Philadelphia. It is so interesting. Because they're they're hugeness on defense can be such a factor. They don't. I'm not sure they had that one guy. Who are you going to put? I guess. Guess you put Ben Simmons on Janas. I'll take that back Horford. Ab Dot trial. I think it's more it's it's more interesting is how much helped They can supply that person but they're so big with their help defenders that they can get back to shooters time that they're not just getting bombarded. 'cause even been look because even against Toronto they swallow guys up with their with their size and their lengthened. The net series last year. All right you got to go to war bounces man. I know it's incredible. It's incredible to think about. It's incredible to think about the margins in this sport and embiid missed a game to remember it in that series. Yes us he had the stomach distract. I thought that was a but it's what it's the margins of team building Boston's refusal fused to trade jaylen Brown for Kawhi Leonard looked so bad in May and June. But then you think like well ah look what it took for. Toronto St out of the second round with go Leonard took four bounces and then then you think okay well. Now we've learned subsequently eight Jaylen Brown is really good. He's averaging twenty something a game it looks like now his playmaking. Still you know little below what you would want it to be never going to be quiet. Leonard Obviously Might never be ninety percent of quieter. But we've learned that he's really good and improving has another level to get to still. I think I think Joe will be an all star soon. polly this cheers. Yeah and we also learned there was probably a hundred percent probability. THAT CO is leaving. Yeah and so what looked is like a no-brainer dumb decision. Boston fell on. Its Face I. I do think Boston was a little too confident in its long-term outlet or outlook at that time. But it's still even even in the limelight of the Raptors winning title in Kuwait and finals. MVP that still these decisions that people a lot of things to go and and you know you mentioned the Ford bounces thing. He don't remember is them getting off the Mat to win. That narrow game three went to overtime. Didn't it in the conference. Finals against malaria were hanging on by a thread in that and they would have been down three. Oh and probably curtains at that point. He's decisions that people and I'm guilty of it too. That that that people think are easy in the moment are are never easy. And and that's it. Are you gotta go. I gotTA catch a ferry John Hollinger the the the greatest of all time the gold standard and you can read them at breath letting and I'm selfishly excited that we can.
"hollinger" Discussed on The Lowe Post
"Purchase with seek. So let's find a home for Kevin Love. We've just talked about Portland if not them. You have a team you like for Kevin Love Rhino. I know you know what else makes it really hard. A lot of these teams that could theoretically be players. They can't even stack enough contracts to get to his number. The the way things lined up because so many teams cap space this summer. You look at the clippers Out Utah Lakers. Even if they wanted to they gotta they gotta put together like they're twenty one and three men. Yeah well why would they even do anything. Yeah well Utah's Today will eventually play a road game but Utah's an interesting example because They need to do something. Well maybe they don't again they have a track record of the. They are going Wendy better than this. However this does feel differently to me than the prior two or three seasons where you look at their schedule are why I get why they're going to get there? They're going to be behind behind the eight ball and on January. First they're gonNA flip it. This doesn't look right. This doesn't look right it doesn't feel right And the like they're getting the doors worn off of them at home by good teams and okay teams and and not great teams. This is they will. They will win. More games organically because of the schedule because because of the time it takes for players to gain chemistry and for Joe Ingles to figure out what life is like coming off the bench without derrick favors to run pick and roll with an all of this stuff stuffed we know is going on in his new for them. But this doesn't look good. This is a team. That's their bottom six offense and it just looks clunky and stat stuttered and bad and soap. Maybe they do nothing but the reason I bring them up is that Joe ingles extension and Houston is is is is is experiencing something similar. There Gordon Extension. Those guys can't get traded during the season now because of those extensions and so there's an Utah's case in eleven million dollar salary that they you can't trade that they can't put in any trade in and in Houston case a sixteen million dollar salary that they can't trade and those teams looking to upgrade. Like they just don't have the ammo to do it now. Yeah in both of cases it is the single most convenient salary they would have had to put in a trade. Utah can't go. Like I think Kevin Love would be again. It's it's it's expensive when you start stacking calmly plus love plus go bear in the Mitchell comes up in a year. But for well the Antigen to yeah. and where's he from. Croatia really an unknown. Yeah now he's at healthier. Oh that was the last four or five games in bad but I I just don't know that they can't they. They can do anything Boston everyone. What's Boston upgrade? Their Front court is Kevin love better than any of their five best perimeter players. Kemba Jalen Jason Gordon. Marcus smart is he just forget contracts on his he better than any of those guys Z.. Better than Marcus. Smart for winning playoff games. Kevin love better than Marcus Smart. It's close enough that we would end up debating it right. So that's a that's a no cross them off that too. No they're not. They're not trading for Kevin. Love the the thing I think coming into the year people people thought might happen with Boston. Is that Hayward might be the guy to be the matching salary in deal but now hayward's been so good that I don't think you look at him the same way as you do the have kind of injured guy that was playing for them last year. That didn't totally fit. This is purely speculative looming Beckley. I don't think the Celtics were ever going to trade Gordon Hayward I think think they have felt a little bit of pain from the perception that they are the franchise that doesn't care about that doesn't I should say that. That they are the franchise that will trade Isaiah Thomas you know. I think that they're the they're the team that it views players as fungible. And here's Brad Stevens College player. Who comes a big free agent snaps his leg and half in his very the first quarter of his very first game? I just don't think that I just my gut. I think that the optics which is now a word that people say all the time the optics of trading him were. Were not going to be good and I don't know if they were going to do it I you know who my favorite sneaky. Kevin Love team was before I thought too hard about it and now doubt it. Washington that goofy team like that would be the one thing that just take them to like next level like we don't even care at all about defense we are. Just it's GONNA put as the floor play. Love and Bert Hands Together. You know try to win one. Seventy one sixty five but couldn't you maybe Britan's at traded in that deal couldn't mm you just see them saying to themselves. John Walls coming back next season John Wall Bradley beal. Kevin love where we're forty eight fifty one team team. These are conference was do it. We got expiring 's got picks we got some stuff. I don't I don't see it happen. I don't think it's GonNa Happen. I sniff I don't think that's that's a good one. Though I liked that I liked the and then you call the team love and basket beal. Oh Boy I knew this was a mistake. Can I throw another Kevin love that you thought. Yeah I'm sure you just WanNa throw something else at me. But Cleveland Cleveland. Cl Vanja hate the street okay. I'm not sure they're gonNA do any better than this. There's maybe this is your baseline. Kevin Love Trade is MAG biondo. Michael Kidd Gilchrist Maliki monk. So two dead Ed salaries and Malik monk. Yeah so this is. This is what I'm taking that back. Cleveland already has two guards who don't pass two young arts who don't pass Charlotte some one nominal asset from Charlotte and this is just a charlotte trying to desperately go back to the eighth seed again. Kind of move yes. I think they're ready to take their medicine. You think so. Yeah I mean there are moves over the last year or so would indicate that they are then signing Roger who by the way credit to Terry Rozier. I doubted I doubted that contract. I still I still kinda doubt it but the guy is making half his catch and shoot. Three's assure you looks looks good playing next to Devante Graham. WHO's a hell of fine for them? Maybe they're ready to take their medicine. Then I can't find bin I give up Houston can't Houston can acquire him without trading pillar tucker and I don't see that as I am. He is the most sensible one in terms of fitting contracts together but he. I'm not sure he fits with that team I mean. Is it my sense about Miami has been they are not going to be in the business. ICED is winslow in the steel. For you if the theoretical Kevin deal do do they have to give up winslow. I'm not sure they have have to okay then. That gets a little more interesting to me because I don't think Miami is going to be in the business of trading twenty-three for thirty one age wise. I just I just. That's less the thirty. One is is right superstar and then it gets. I mean summer. Twenty twenty one. You know they wanna be a player and Kevin Love makes thirty one million dollars I than the following season. Now you can. And you've got Bama to bio will have a cap hold that summer of something like fifteen million and Butler and love and that alone. You're you're out of the house. Yeah and that's before a hero and it wherever else Kendrick non whoever else is on the roster at that point but you can always sign and trade you can always. There's always ways to get around not having cap space. Hey what about Phoenix. They're on my list. Sell me on Phoenix's Kevin Destination. I'm just thinking if that was the type of thing they would do Dr On my list. Here's my whole list right here. Phoenix Phoenix Right. Here right here I mean obviously you have to you. Have they'd be convinced that he can play with eight and indoor Baynes. You're not stopping anyone with the name. Kevin love four five combination right now even with Ricki. Ricki can't steal the ball from everybody. It helps Ricky Booker. You could do like What what would a deal even look like? I guess you got Tyler John Johnson Foundation. So you do like Tyler Johnson and pray or something gray I I'll tell you. I like watching Kelly oubre. He's a maniac. I never know what's going to happen. I feel like he's actually his his It let's call. His energy has been channeled in a more productive direction this year. And there's less of like what is he doing. Why careening across the court in random directions at random times why is he spacing out while his guy cuts back door? I don't feel like there's less of that. And more of like Kelly librarians applying his energy and in positive ways. He's like yeah. I like refreshingly solid this year I would agree with that but if you put them in a deal you can just move up bridges so like you you you have some ability to do that. I mean you have to put something in the deal right. Do you think bridges could pass to Phil Jackson. Tests was it Phil. Jackson could sit in the back seat of a car and reach Shen. Open the front doors or something like that. Wasn't there some. His arms were sold long. That like from anywhere in a four door car. He could open the driver's door. And there's some story like that McHale. Gilbert is arms are like he's like plastic man out there. Yeah Yeah and you really see it. Defensively and offensively. He really hasn't gotten to the point. He was at at Villanova Phoenixes intriguing. Cleveland may just be stuck. It just may not happen this year. People have tried to Pitch Man Indiana. I don't see what's the what's what's the Indiana deal that makes sense. You have to give up Turner or so bonus rather I think I turner I think so. Supporters have been flat better than turning this year. It hasn't really been close. I am I just. I don't see why that's worth the Pacers while Dallas has been mentioned. Don't see it don't see see. It saw some Denver speculation today. Don't see it yeah. I don't see it. I've trouble with that one too. That's not gonNA happen. I don't see it Dalley light. It's again if one of those Dallas. He was twenty five. I think you're all over it. But you kind of want guys on the same timeline. As lucan presume guess you would think. Yeah Yeah I don't see it in Tim Hardaway in the role they have him in. Starting as the littlest guy in their massive starting lineup has it's been it's been making shots and he's been good tim. Hardaway's been good for their team whereas Kevin Love Teams. That's it that's my list Les Mis Somebody Utah. Yeah Houston Washington buzzy. Got Everybody CESCO Moscow. Ou Don't do that Cavallo's good player. Now he is. Did you see their game against Philly. When they were down by forty at halftime I did did not have you seen film of the greatest three second violation in the history of the NBA? You know what I don't think I have. You need to go watch it okay. Kevin love planted is in the lane in the second quarter with Cleveland down by nine thousand points And stood there and stood there for so damn long that the entire hire sixers bench started yelling and he's still stood there. Even as Brett Brown was on the court yelling for a second violation and then as the Khuda gras he raised his hand to call for the ball and alert and and I think on purpose. Alert the referees. That's right I'm still here and I'm pretty damn sure. That was his way of saying Colin. Sects and endures. Garland will you impasse. Will you pass me the ball. One time I'm so sick of the it's you have to find it. It is an all I. It's my favorite through second violation ever. I've never seen a more theatrical. Three second violation wow. I'm really intrigued. I had no idea was missing so much. It's one philly game it's one step. Step away from writing. TR- Chris Morris that row trade me on his shoes with somebody wrote all alone on his shoes. Oh who is that. This is back in today. It was re sprewell or Marbury or somebody like that. It was really really good looking for other great. Mba podcasts download. And subscribe the Wind Horse in the hoop collective.
"hollinger" Discussed on The Lowe Post
"NC Seventeen territory. Because I don't mean it's away but my if I'm in the heat my junk is like really junkie. Like the waiters is as Junky as it gets right now under the gummy incident of Twenty Nineteen James Johnson. I Love James Johnson as a player he has not been in the rotation issue failed the conditioning tests. He has sixteen million dollar player option for the next year. Like that is that is junkie. Yeah so you're really then back to the derogatory expiring and what I have to attach to that. If that's worth it to get me one year of Galadari Nari like I'm am I that good. If I'm the heat is gala Nari making me a title. Contender might still lose in the first round when those other four teams in the east even like team like Detroit. Detroit looked headed for. Hell just just missed the playoffs with a capped out roster from Hell and now they're two games back in the loss column and you figure given their mo hello this should be all in to make the playoffs and then they have drummond entering free agency like are they really just gonNA either lose drummond or pay him an obscene amount of money instead of investigating the trade market for him. They might actually go not investigate to trade. I don't all these teams are like in this immoral. Like the wizards The wizards have one really nice. Trade asset in Davos Britan's absolutely. Why why wouldn't they just keep him? He's young enough that it makes sense to just keep him. He's not going to cost caused that much money. Like no one is GonNa go overboard with this one CR- I mean he's always been a good shooter but what he's doing this year the shots is taking are like the guys are in his Jersey's he's like I'm rising up. Well he's I mean he's tall. He liked any gets elevation on his jumper. That's a hardship to get to and really contest. And he's gotten really comfortable with it. I think One of the few mistakes of the Spurs era probably. Well that was. The whole thing was a mess. Whatever happened with Marcus Morris? And and it is hurt the spurs in and and there's clearly bitterness between the spurs and the Knicks over Porzingis and Blah Blah. So so all these teams. I don't know what they're GONNA do. But it leaves us with a few teams. That are I think clearly league super interesting and you can pick either one of these teams or go outside left field. Maybe there's another team you wanNA talk about Utah is not going to sit back and be bad like this. It's like they have been other thirteen and eleven. They're not bad. They had a very tough schedule and they have a history of cleaning up against their soft part of the schedule in the winter. So maybe they're fine but boy do they look bad portland. Maybe you WANNA start there. Because I don't know what the Hell Portland is supposed to do at nine fifteen. And where the heck with half their Rosser injured and then the the clear other clear buyer by buyer. There's GonNa be Houston you know. They're going to look at everything and at six thousand eighteen. It's time for the Pelicans to look in the mirror and think about what they can get for holiday. Jj rettig so pick any of those teams. WHO's the most interesting to you By Far Portland I thought they were the most interesting coming into the season. I thought they didn't have a really honest view of themselves coming into the year with all this championship. Talk when you look at their teams like okay even before you had any of these injuries. He's like you played Anthony Tolliver scallops and Mario his own year in the first quarter of the first game at the same time I told him not a content. I told you I told you you cannot come on this podcast and slander. Mario who I told you. And we're not even ten minutes in and you are slamming in Dubrovnik. Croatia is on Mario. ONA did did you save yourself. Did you see his reverse layup against Oklahoma City. The other night I assume zoom it went cleanly through the net it all it almost got to the net. I didn't see it was a thing of beauty. I only watched half games. I I missed. I missed whatever happened. Yeah it was. It wasn't quite on par with a between the legs pass but it was. It was a moment so I wanted to defend the blazers for a second because I actually had them in in in my free agency wrap-up Comma sure. I had them tentative winners. Even though I don't really particular like not whiteside and I think heartless an immune for all their flaws in the right setting are switchable wing type players. That are helpful to your team. And everybody could see they were finished power or forward Little slide on the wing and really dependent on Zach Collins. Staying healthy in. That didn't happen but and you can't plan your life runs at Collins getting injured and in I thought I could understand why the blazers were tired of watching harkness reckless in a minute missed wide open. Threes every single playoffs yet and by the GATT skimmed off the floor and get and get played off the floor to the point. That bye bye. GO TIME AGAINST DENVER. They're playing hooded. The three in Collins at the foreign. That's what they're writing. I understood the need to get a center that you knew can give me twenty eighty five to thirty minutes of numbers. I don't know that sound like side gives you like actual winning production. But he's a big body who's GonNa get rebounds and not get bowled over by Nicole Yokich and you know whoever Stephen Adams and whoever else you're gonNA have to face night tonight. I understood all that and without with their total lack of flexibility polity. It's not like they could go pick any center. They wanted they needed to go get they needed to. Trade distressed assets for distressed assets. That said I didn't like all of that said like I understand why people are critical. They're outside I don't love their team and I I just wonder I I do think you need to do the opposite exercise though go back and say it all right if you don't like what they did. What's sure alternative plan particularly in light of NRG knowing Merkich is going to be out for a long long time? I actually thought they had a decent off season because they did that. They got a good deal on hood you know for relatively productive wing player that got him for the taxpayer mid level I thought they did a ballsy thing with Simon's which is basically saying saying we're not going to bring in any other point guard any other veteran whatsoever. We're GONNA make sure Simon's plays we think he's ready. He's just GONNA play. You've talked about this before in your time at the grizzlies ab about when Front Offices and coaching staffs are a little bit at odds and sometimes you have to remove a veteran player. More STA coaches to play the young player. That's an interesting dynamic. Yeah and I think in our situation it was it was probably a little different We we never quite had other than maybe Jordan Adams rookie. Before he got her. We never quite had somebody who's played enough of a level as a as a rookie where we had to say like okay. We got a move of Heaven and earth to get this guy on the floor. I mean Dillon Brooks his rookie year. He played because we were so bad by the end of it. So Dillon Brooks does he foul all people at the grocery store he just always nudging people and shoving people yeah. He's a walking foul that yeah he is he's You know he really he. He's one of those guys like Carmelo. Who really enjoys the physicality you know? Like if the rest. Put away their whistles. A Lotta guys would complain and stuff. And I think Carmelo. Anthony and Dillon Brooks were just like this is awesome awesome. Like I'm having so much fun right now. He's he's irritating to play against. You can tell that some players don't like to play all he talks to man. He's he's trash talker. Continue with Portland. You'd like their offseason. But but I just think the deck was so stacked against them you. You don't have ERC right and you're in the tax. You just have a small exception. You just had the late first round. Pick that got us here little with it. Who People didn't like? He's interesting to me that I've seen them play. Okay he's a down the line guy. He is interesting You know he showed flashes of that athleticism in North Carolina and it's some of the other Events that we see leading up to that His skill level needs to improve for him to be more than a like a six power forward. And but I mean Portland's track record on. That phone is pretty good with their player Development Whatnot so oh I thought at that point in the Draza twenty. I think he was twenty five in a week draft other. That was a pretty good pick. I think their minimums. They aimed and more for veterans. who were at the end of the line thinking thinking maybe they just needed Kinda give us ten solid minutes and wave the towel mm-hmm kind of guys and instead these guys gotten positions where they're being counted on and I think BC has been okay for them. He's been placing. Yeah Up Center for them. The only thing that I could come up with as an alternative path was okay. Keep heartless kingdom. You knew the only like for the tax mid level there were a couple of centers available. Well they tried to bring back kanter. I remember that's right. That's right so they tried. That is plan a and then when that didn't happen they turn to Rodney Hood and do the whiteside trade. Do they have to use the tax mid Levonne Hood they have enough bird rights to get him now. They had to use it because he had signed a one on year. DEAL TO COME BACK TO CLEVELAND. I think because one of the great signings of the summer is going to end up being rashawn homes who have always liked to receipts for that he was in my Luke Walton. The all stars calm last summer. But what the kids are dead without rashawn homes. Oh absolutely ED airline even playing any other centers more. They're playing Bailey's at center when he sits on the edge. Yeah Yeah I mean. He's arguably been their best player this year and he was a bargain. Signing and How Good Phoenix beef? They'd hung onto him about but they're happy with with beans. They exchange the exchange essential. Yeah that's true that's true although it's been the Frank Kaminsky MISL- up show in the last ten games. Frank thank so what does Portland do now. That's the question hoods hoods out for the season Collins is out for a long time nurtures. The last I heard was something like February and I think with an injury like that. You just gotTA assume that you're getting seventy five percent of what he was last year until he gets even when he comes back. It's not like you're gonNA roll him in for forty thirty minutes a night right. You're still going to be measured with it. And maybe not playing back to backs and so I think Portland to me coming into this year. It was clear there much sit better setup for next year than they are for this year. If you look at the money they have coming off their cap if you look at Some of the you know you got these guys like Simon's I'm an little waiting in the wings he'll be a year further along. You still have Lillard mccollum signed long-term you still have a great deal. And he'll be presumably. Healthy by coaches point nurtures pitches deal as a joke. It's so good. Yeah if you if you get the kind of production you got from him. Last season declines in it has non-guaranteed year in twenty twenty two for thirteen point. Two in the whatever percentage that is guaranteed. It's a crazy. Good deal Portland. Unlike a lot of these other teams still a sitting on their future picks. Yup they're very pick so they have a lot of ability to make a move for one of these players who might be available on the market but not necessarily to do it for this year. 'cause I mean to me you look at this season circling the drain for them. I mean maybe they limp in at the eighth seed but like all. This talk of..
"hollinger" Discussed on The Lowe Post
"I'm to the low post podcast where I think we can all agree that when we remember and think about the Grit and Grind Ryan Grizzlies. And what Grit and grind is is an ethos. Would it. Looks like what it plays like. I think we all think of one person. Some people people might say Tony Allen. Some people might say Zach Randolph. Marcus oil for me when I think of Grit and grind I think of John Hollinger of the athletic. How are you doing great doing great? Thank you so much for having me. We we finally did event after I twenty years or whatever of a lot of years The the OG. Oh Gee the best to ever do it now doing it at the athletic And how many years the grizzlies mandate flu like seven years man. It was. It goes fast. I tell you who had who drank more this summer. You were Mark Russell. ooh that's I mean mark in one day might have just just just top top my entire summer. I don't know I had. I had a pretty good summer though. It was nice Well now the NBA season is a quarter of the way through and we will be. On December fifteenth trade season will be officially unofficially underway. Because all the free agents can betrayed it or most of them anyway and I thought that would be a good a good time to have you in pusher New York to go to college game for some reason still paying attention to college basketball for some reason. I can't get it out of my system did you. Did you have a normal Thanksgiving this year or did you like because that's one of the benefits of working for a team working for a team your your scout always at a college although actually it's funny because I would always go to the Maui invitational so it wasn't maybe so bad okay so yeah so when I got this job my wife was like yeah. Are there already thirty tournaments like in Maui. You might have to do my wife and kid or come with me to Miami in January. When they heard Miami trip was on the books are like Yep that one coming into that one Miami and January okay trade season so the League is in a very strange place? I find A and it. I'm not sure what it will do to trade trade activity we can talk about that but Bill is off limits Some other teams have signed extensions. That are widely hamstringing them yet in trade season And if you look at Toronto let's just go through some teams like that. We thought could be active one way or another Toronto. Everyone was obsessed with. They're going to sell off their pieces ball. I predicted they would not now. They're too good exactly that they are too good right now. I think you're right. They're going to be a top four seed certainly if anything they may look to add. I think they still have to tip toe a little bit. They don't want to mess up a potential summer. Of Twenty one. Bonanza I think a lot of teams are looking toward that but the lowry extension was perfect. Right gave him so much flexibility to go either way it they can still still trade him and he to me was. Once bill got extended Bradley beal got extended. Kyle was the one guy where you were like. Because of his position his ability to fit with other elite players was just a no brainer like he could actually move the needle for some of these teams but at and he's not even rental no he's got a year left but they're sixteen and seven against a tough schedule there. I don't I would be shocked within anything Oklahoma City which is a team. I don't know Oh that I've ever felt this. This particular emotion is strung is ado with the thunder. I watched the thunder play. There are fine team. They're eleven and twelve They're in the playoffs. The playoffs and if the season a hey inadvertently make the playoffs. Just because the bottom's fallen out of that part of the West this year but I find it I find watching them so cold and I almost stood meyer their ability from Sam Prestige to Abdul Nacer to function as a team. Because they're like the commission playing on that team like you know that this is like the ultimate placeholder team. Chris Paul's not here for any other reason than to get traded Danilo galleries here for any other reason to get traded. Dennis Ruder. Same thing eventually. Stephen Adams probably will get traded. But they're they're playing together. They have weird lineups if play three point guards at the same time. Those lineups are destroying strong. Everybody and I don't know that anyone. I predicted before the season. Many of my prediction will be wrong but one that one that. I'm confident that Chris Chris. Paul would not get traded during the season. I don't think they're going to have a blow away market for atoms for any of these guys. They may just like fifteen that we all assumed existed simply for the purpose of making trades may just sorta by default do nothing and end up in the playoffs and end up in the playoffs. Minnesota are they a buyer or seller. Are they nothing. They are certainly hungry to make the playoffs that would make them a buyer there fall into ten and thirteen but do they want to sell. They have a piece that everybody would want and Robert Covington and then some pieces. Nobody wants for any reason. I mean the gorge. Dan Contract is one of the few toxic contracts really left in the league. After the summer of the summer orgy of sixteen is coming off the books for everyone this year so you you have all all that out of the way but other than sort of high profile players who maybe they make too much money. When you look at like the Chris Paul Kevin Love the world then Gordon? He's one of the few where you're where that's a contract. That could they look to dump that. Then who are you signing once you dump it is the other thing. We look at the free agent market next year. What I think they'll look at I? I think if anything Minnesota might be pseudo buyers by which I mean like let's take a flyer on a point guard because we were literally not starting one. They're not starting point guard. Let's take a flyer on someone who like maybe can help us but is more like I could see Schreuder. I could see just five wins better. I could see them calling about some bigger name veteran point guards but but the spurs a week or two ago. They're gone it though. Trade to Rosen Trade Aldridge another like a game out of the playoffs all of a sudden lake. The West is so bad. ARE THEY GONNA to keep it together. I don't know Phoenix Eleven and twelve. I guess they would be buyers to try to make the playoffs e I think because they've been so hopeless for so long like the idea of making the playoffs for them. I do think I do think they could probably be a buyer they got one. Big expiring and Tyler Johnson. They have all their picks. Got Some little like five million dollar contracts Kaminsky Baynes those Baines is like the MVP their teams that are not trading. Him sorry is a free agent. Is he part. Are there long term plans. Maybe but maybe not if they can. I don't know we'll see. Plus they have the best rookie in the league. Do Touch home the University of Virginia Uva. I I can't talk to you about you. I I have a blind spot for you. The I just is not going to happen for us. We're GONNA build it. We're not going to be able to have a good natured. Doctors a girl who broke my heart. It's bad like it's just it's just just I. I can't when they lost in the first round of the tournament two years ago I was really really happy like it was really. It was Cathartic for for you. Ha Ha it was not a good moment for me now not proud of my and and how I felt about it. I spent a lot of time at the University of Virginia. Spent a lot a lot of weekends and I was like I was like the twenty four year. Old interloper dating Undergrad okay on the weekends at at Uva have the tweets from all your burner accounts so we dressed up. As I'm the you know what I'm talking about I can't leave that aside. Miami is one of the more interesting teams to me in that they are our tailor-made to be an aggressive buyer. But they're like they're like so good that trading out of their rotation and is now problematic for them like everyone was drunk on expiring justice winslow's interesting but like so because our good players for a team that is seventeen and six. Yeah it ah you gotta get. Somebody actually really good to to do that. They have basically have no put picks to put in play right. So you're talking about either. Justice wins lower. Taylor Harrow. Being the bait and trying to get somebody to take lineker waiters off your hands and and that's how deal could be Olympics in kind of good for them this year. He's been all right. He's making shots. I I duNno I watch him on defense and man don't look he's got an even slower. It's it's not great And and him whenever him or Leonard is on the floor very often Bam. We'll have to guard powerful words which takes Bam's Rim protection a little bit out of the equation and in because he's not around the rim. I'm and I'm very very intrigued by Ken. Miami the numbers with Bam at center Bam and four guards or wings so no I know Leonard Nola Nick no Chris Silva yeah are really really good. So far in Miami feels like it's one upgrade in those lineups away from being really really dangerous. I just don't know who that player is going to be. At the beginning of the season I thought it could be lowry I don't think as we talked about that could be lower. I don't see them going for love because of the summer of twenty twenty one stuff. You're discussing the summer of the Greek Freak Freak and others I could what about Gallon Ari because of all the Oklahoma City guys even if the market's not great Gallos the only one that's expiring hiring in prestige does not want him to walk for nothing. I Bet Yeah I think that's the most interesting one. Absolutely what are you are you willing to do. A winslow for her gallant. I just don't know what the books a little bit but is it. Can I get him for A. I mean the junk going the opposite way too because Gallon Ari isn't like one of the reasons uses that four smalls with Bam works like you're so switchable Galadari on that end is a little you know little stiff not not quite as In my my I might not to take into..
"hollinger" Discussed on Slate's Hang Up and Listen
"So we've bounced around chronologically a little bit here. But I wanted to circle back to the Gonzala and Conley deals that ended up breaking up the grizzlies core and you were there and huge part of the discussions that ended up with Marcus. It's all going to Toronto and I think Memphis got a lot of credit for sending him to you know a contending team at good team that ended up winning the title but you also so kind of wanted to send him to Charlotte Right. Yeah I mean we We were talking with Charlotte. I Our offer with Toronto was not as strong as the as the final deal deal and then The Charlotte we. We thought we were going to end up with with a pretty good deal with them and it did not get completed for a variety variety of reasons. I guess but that's how it goes. I mean you you talk about deals and talk about deals ninety five percent of the work you do in the front office ends up not mattering because there's no result because it ends up being a non deal so it's just part of the business and so the deal deal Toronto once it was Sweden appropriately for us. That became became more appealing. To be able to get a bounce soonest to be able to get a dhillon right. They eventually signed and traded God draft ethics out other than still were able to use his money Ontai Jones and then Tunis gives you a starting center. WHO's ten years younger? So that became the most Appealing deal at the time. I mean that's easiest way to say it and we just we're at the point. I mean there was no point fighting at any more I mean arguably we she probably should have done it two years earlier after that After that series against San Antonio in would have been seventeen like that. That was the point that that was kind of the last stand of Grit Grind. You Know Zach Antonio to a point where they were starting to fade because of their age that that was probably the point where we should just hit hit the the dynamite but we ended up hanging on for another two years and still trying to win and So that we took it to the trade deadline last year and then that's when the mark situation situation came up. So what I'm hearing is grizzlies get a little too much credit for being nice and sending Marcus Alda Toronto. 'cause happily would have sent him to Charlotte. If the trade had been a little bit better. Well yeah but I mean the other thing is I mean if that deal had gotten done then Charlotte makes the playoffs. Probably in his is a little bit better situation and so you know it's not the Charlotte that we're seeing on the floor this year. It's a charlotte with Kimball Walker and Marcus Hall. And who knows what else. So Conley gets traded said in July two the Utah Jazz and He was kind of Mr Grizzly. And the thing that's been kind of sweet is that both Ghazal and commonly talked about their friendship and it seems like really genuine. Not just a teammate thing. Like a friend for life thing they would sit to other on the plane gene And that's like a thing that's rare and then be able to have guys. They played together from two thousand eight two thousand eighteen. Could you just say a little bit about them. I am kind of as as friends and that relationship and how it defined the organization. Yeah I mean I think they you know it really sprung from. This is before I got there. There were trade rumors about Mike being traded. I think in his second season two to Milwaukee Mark Sprung into action and started telling all the reporters and everything like. Oh my God. They can't do this like how do I stop this. And I think from that point forward the kind of always had each other's back and you yeah just a lot of mutual respect that that they were playing the right way and and for the right reasons and it wasn't just about themselves. They're always just so much about the team. And that's what made it so easy for us to have a winning team in Memphis was because of those two guys are at the other trade that I have to ask you about was the one that was not consummated which is the great greatest story of the two thousand eighteen trade deadline. which is the confusion over? Which Brooks was going to be traded? Oh yeah yeah so that was actually that was not at the trade deadline that was in December I WANNA say okay my bad but the idea was that the grizzlies we're gonNA trade. They'd either Marshon Brooks or Dillon Brooks and there was some game of telephone where there was confusion about. who like so what happened in whose fault was sure? So it's common in a three team trade to have the team in the middle kind of handle both sides of it and so we were dealing with Washington and Phoenix soon with Washington. And I think the name Brooks came up and I'm not sure Washington realize we had to Brooks's and it's okay which I mean it would all come out in the laundry except that Phoenix leaked. It leaked the trade while the two of us were still playing a game so that that's what made it's super awkward because we had to tackle the situation right away while our players are still coming back to the locker room. Marshon Brooks is on the floor as MOMS MOMS in the crowd trying to tell him he's been traded like it was it was just weird and the unfortunate situation That way but like I said if if it hadn't leaked during the game 'cause we we sort of agreed to what we were going to do with Washington and then we kind of said okay. Well let's let's wrap this up tomorrow morning and and we'll all get on the phone together and so because we because we knew we were both about to play games and it never got to the to the next. It's morning if it had you know we would. We would realize on our own that that there there was confusion over the names and it all would have died and and nothing would come of it so it was that the trade leaking. While we're both playing games was really the thing that made it such a mess where the Brooks is able to see the humor in it or were they just kind birth pest probably dylan saw more of the humor in it than marshawn because marshawn was the one who is being traded and the deal that we wanted to do that make sense all right John Hollinger now at the athletic also does a podcast with nate. Duncan everybody should check that out if you want to. You hear the perspective of one of the Great Analytical minds and basketball who also has front office experience we benefited from hearing all of that today. John Thank you so much for taking the time all right. Thanks for having me. This episode is brought to you by Dollar Shave Club..
"hollinger" Discussed on Slate's Hang Up and Listen
"You joined up with the team in two two thousand twelve you're at ESPN at the time had come about. Were you looking to join a front office. I wasn't really looking to do it like I thought I would just be at. ESPN the and for however long. And that's where my mind was. And but I had two different opportunities come up actually from two different teams and evaluated evaluated that the grizzlies one was was a little better because it was a little more responsibility higher up the food chain and and wouldn't necessarily confined me to the analytics ghetto. Now which is where it seemed like a lot of people getting hired into and then they kind of disappeared like they went to the Gulag so I was wary of. That wasn't really something I was looking for but when the opportunity a tune came up I was really excited by it. That was actually one of the things I wanted to ask you about is like what two front office titles mean. You're the vice. President of basketball operations ends the grizzlies also had a GM Chris Wallace yet. So what did you do. And what what was your level. Second second in command basically right on the the best ball inside and that can evolve different responsibilities with different teams because as much as the league projects that they're this big conglomerate camera. It's really thirty mom and pop shops at the end of the day. So you end up wearing a lot of different hats regardless of what your role is but in my case I was overseeing analysts obviously given my background but I was also out looking at players I was calling other teams about trades. You're going to practice. You're evaluating your your own team and then there's just kind of the boring stuff that you have to deal with two of managing a staff and health and medical side of things. There's just awesome day to day. unglamorous stuff that goes into that too so it's not quite like managing fantasy team love to hear about the boring stuff that people have to do their jobs. It was like the big complaint plant that people had that there are too many meetings just like an any any job or we actually did okay on meetings. I think I think we actually did not have did not have an overload of meetings. The travel sort of makes it difficult for too many meetings to happen. Actually because there's the team is on the road half the time you're going to be on the road at some time when you're out looking at players doing different things. Even even in the off season the players are scattered coaches and trainers are out seeing the players. There's different camps. There's summer league so to many meetings thing actually this the schedule kind of solve on. Its own that's a good thing to know oh maybe I should join the NBA there. You go when you're dealing with other teams for potential trade talks talking to other executives. Did you find that fun. was that like stress. Inducing did you feel like you were able to develop good. Relationships are like you're always assessing whether people are lying to you that act. That actually was fun. Pretty easy to develop those relationships and I think you're obviously there were some guys that I knew from. ESPN career to so there are some doors is that were already kind of open that way. It's a lot of the trading in the league's though is a little bit relationship driven where you know. We have people in our front office who you had relationships with people and other front offices. So they'd be our contact points for that team or the people that I was closest to. I'd be the contact points for for those teams that borrows Kinda Fun. Though is more stressful was dealing with agent agency. Because that was more like you I mean trade. You're doing doing back and forth but at the end of the day. You didn't have to do anything and you also presumably. We're on the phone with them to get something. So that part was a little easier. The free agency. It was a little more stressful because the negotiation goes badly the guy leaves so there is more more to lose their and and players have more power in the NBA that just because of the small rosters and the fact that winning is so driven by a small all like class of guys who are just better than everyone else so Did you find that a lot of the job was to portray trey not just portray but to create an environment And Memphis that players would want to plan just to to be he kind of player friendly. And what every aspect of what that phrase means that. They're in the background. I mean. Certainly we made you know a lot of improvements to Kinda just things like the players lounge in the you know the kind of player experience in in the time I was there but I think I think the biggest thing that still attracts players is winning and playing with other good players and so that obviously still has to be at the forefront. We were fortunate in Memphis though. I mean we had had four good players who all wanted to be there and you know in a small market. You don't really take that for granted So I I think that was kind of a special time because after that I was gonNA ask about that. So you had Marcus Allen Mike Conley obviously and then Zach Randolph and Tony Allen and those teams and they were all there when you got there right. They were all there when I got there. Yes and all four of them in the time I was there re-signed with us as unrestricted free agents which without much of a fight? And so that I mean I think that goes goes to show you that. I mean we didn't deal with some of the stuff that other teams have dealt with in terms of guys trying to push their way. Yeah Yeah I was actually wondering you know your comment there just kind of flipped on my on on on its head because I was going to say like well. Maybe you didn't have a chance dance to really transform that team because you had those guys locked in and actually they could have all left and so you did have an opportunity to changer the injured or shift what the Organization was doing but there was a mutual decision by the players and the organization to keep everybody together. That was a choice. Yeah it was a choice resume. It wasn't it wasn't much of a choice given our caps situation. I mean the went once once. You're over the cap I mean you might as well resign. Your own guys. Basically no probably probably the the biggest direction changing move. We made was When I first got there when we traded rudy gay because that took us out of a precarious situation with the luxury tax but then it also also freed up a lot more shots and Just time with the basketball for Marcus on Mike Conley and really allow them to take a step up so I was. He's doing my like reading and refreshing about those years and there were reports Wedge back then was at Yahoo. Read a story about how Lionel Holland's confronted you and two thousand thirteen And it seemed like he was pissed about the rudy gay trade and that there was this kind of tension Chan and he was a guy who wasn't so analytically inclines. And could you dislike kind of talk about that relationship and that tension. I mean that was a weird situation situation from the get-go because Lionel's contract was expiring and he knew it and he he still wasn't happy with the previous extension that he got from the from the previous owner Robert. Pera had just bought the team right before I was hired which how I ended up there and our new team president Jason Jason Levian had had to make a decision on what he was going to do there so it was just I think it was more situational than than anything. That's kind of where where that was. So under different circumstances you and Lionel Hollins could have been. BFF's Right right but I mean we walked into a situation where it was just going to be really difficult no matter what happened and you know and then it looked like he was going to kind of leaves a free agent go to another team and then the Especially when the clippers job it went away there was more tension because then he still wanted to stay in Memphis but I think our management kind of moved on a little bit and so that that just created odd situation all around but a you know also at the time of that move especially I think he was he was probably evaluating it as these moves that are made to the roster affect by sort of coach free agency right so there was. There was obviously attention. There that we were going to. We knew coming in that we had to trade at somebody because the team was way into the luxury tax and was going to be the next year as well and so there was almost instant tension because of that. Yeah and I don't think you know you. You guys traded the the wrong guy. That was a smart move and in two thousand thirteen. You made the Western Conference finals got a little help from Patrick. Beverley injury entering Russell Westbrook and a move that that started their years long feud and then Ran and into the Spurs and the Western Conference finals which which ended up as a sweep. What are what are your memories of that? Two Thousand Thirteen playoff run getting to those western conference finals was was the kind of pinnacle achievement of that era for the team. Well I mean it was the farthest advance but I mean I think our team in Twenty fifteen was our best team The the team that was up to one golden state we just happened to be playing golden state in the second round. You know that first year was all such a whirlwind. I came in in the middle of the season and and we just You know after all the trade stuff happened we just kinda got every everything together and things Kinda Clicked and land to his credit. Put it past them in really got the best out of that team in the in the play offs and we were fortunate. The Russell Westbrook was out in the second round certain lakes. We could just throw everything we had Kevin Durant and put Tony Allen on 'em and have helped defenders in the right spots. 'cause they're they're secondary guys weren't weren't as threatening and in our lives easier but that was a fun run though and the one thing. I wonder about that team when that team always done. Really well against Miami They just smashed up well against them. They can post up against them. And they didn't have a lot of good post defenders and we could put Tony Allen Lebron James and at least prevent him from going totally totally nuts and so we had always done well against then we would play them. We got to the finals. We just had no answer for San Antonio so this kind kind of I think speaks to the fact that quote unquote analytics people get pigeonholed and like a really simplistic take on it. As like Oh like analytic says you should should shoot a lot of threes like this is a team that did not shoot very many threes had just the biggest lineup and the league and was really successful. was that something that you kind of knew going in that there were just like a bunch of different ways that you could win an NBA. Or was that actually a lesson for you that You know flexibility ability. And you know that there is not just one smart strategy for success. Yeah I mean we. We were a bad shooting team so like shooting. A ton of threes. Didn't make great sense. I still wish we had We got Marcus all out to the three point line earlier than we did because he he was is a good three point shooter and he could have really space things out and make things more complicated for other teams and but that just wasn't a thing teams with did with their centers than how and so i. I mean definitely the way we played was the way to play with that with that roster but I still wonder under if we left a little bit of money on the table not having one or two guys out beyond the three point line more often. That's interesting so it wasn't even discussed just because I wasn't done like that is not the thing that teams do so. We will not do that now. I mean it. It came up with mark but not in that first season. Who was more a little bit? I WANNA say year two years later. That really came up that that was really starting to become more of a trend and and we're really started discussing it more earnestly so you mentioned being two on up up on the warriors that first year that the warriors won the title that two one deficit for them has kind of become a part of their lower. The Dow was a moment when they kinda came together. And you know they had to be tough and come back and and be you guys and I was a draymond green in comes up again like he went out for Barbecue and Memphis with steph curry like Memphis Barbecue. Work against you that that was the that was a bonding. Yeah we're injuries worked against us to unfortunately Tony Allen couldn't couldn't move the way at the beginning of the series because his hand straining really hurt us just because he had done such an amazing job on Klay Thompson and then the other part people forget is that Mike Conley broke his face..
"hollinger" Discussed on Slate's Hang Up and Listen
"Were coming up at the time. Like Andrei Kirilenko was one guy. Came up where it was the opposite opposite where it wasn't playing a ton of minutes but once you realize how much he stuff the stat sheet in those minutes was like okay. This guy is really good and obviously eventually became an all star. Claire Wood People Yellow. You about Latrell Sprewell. And how he was awesome. And your dom figuratively. I mean they would yell an email in their emails but that I was the guy who you kind of pushed down in the rankings well at the Antoine Walker was probably the biggest magnolia. Antoine people made a big deal out of and he had a good scoring average. And you would take a ton of threes and some of them would go in and he would do the Shimmy and whatnot was ahead of his time as the volume three point shooter. Yeah Ah Yeah. He like he was. He wasn't right because he was taken them from everywhere he just wasn't making them from a whole lot of space is so yeah really really interesting. Debate about what Antoine Walker would be in the modern NBA. Yeah that's really interesting because you do actually have to make some of the three pointers. That you take isn't just vote not yet. It's not just about getting them up. But you know one thing that's really really different now. As opposed to in the nineties. It's not just. The teams are more Savvy Unaware Unaware about the value the mathematical importance of taking threes. It's the players can train for it and so if maybe Antoine Walker had come up twenty years later I I don't know maybe he would have developed a better more consistent shot. WHO's to say? Maybe I mean he was looking at how he shot it and you know he wasn't a good free throw shooter either. At uh-huh I have my doubts. I mean he came through Kentucky and Rick Pitino so there was always that mindset of shooting a lot of threes that he came in to the league with and even his first due college coach or I two NBA coaches. Excuse me were Patino in Jim. O'Brien right I didn't really believe it when I said it I was just trying to like About Antwon John here because I have kind of a soft spot for him. But I think you're probably right. Let's talk through the PR standings right now. Luke is at the top thirty three point into A. Why would he if we just look at his numbers be at the top of the PR standings today? Well I mean the things that stand out I mean his triple crown stats right any just scoring rebounding assisting at at incredibly high rate and then the other the thing that stands out with him is that he shooting sixty two percent onto pointers. Well which you only see that from centers right. He's been not only only highly productive in terms of just so many possessions end up with von his hands and making a play highly. Efficient is well even though it's three point percentages isn't that high draws a lot of foul shoots eighty one percent from the line between those things even though he doesn't contribute a lot and like stealing blocks he still just a massively massively productive player. WHO's putting up insane stats on the season? Now I will say Dallas is scheduled. Early has been a little soft so this'll probably come down a little bit. But he's having a historic season either way. Yeah that kind of efficiency as a twenty year old and then you also mentioned has three point percentage not being that high you know. We're we're talking about stealing earlier. We're to think that there's still so much room for growth for him as a terrifying. Yeah I mean what happens if he becomes a forty percent three point shooter that what do you what do you do within then especially in his size. So he's He's going to be a problem for a long time. I think be concerned Draymond. Green the guy who's the most surprising is at number. Four war is Mitchell Robinson maybe V. Kazoo bucket number. Ten as well was a guy his name. I wasn't expecting to see there. These are guys who are efficient. Spent an hour minutes. Yeah I mean I would say with with Mitchell ramps. I would say two hundred forty five minutes so you probably don't have quite as much to go on their age. Just just been so highly efficient you know seventy four percent true shooting I mean. That's that's basically the reason he's rang disease and then his his insanely high block shot. Ray Ah is rated shop blocks in the league by far the guy. I'm always so delighted to see near the top of the PR rankings is Bo bon the king of PR and like when a big guy in particular is putting up like massive efficiency. Numbers and low minutes is that all all suggestive like. Oh they should give the sky more more time or is there going or they're going to be diminishing returns if somebody who is efficient and those small number of minutes plays by research has shown that you're you're you're not gonNA see diminishing returns in terms of his production. I mean the reason he doesn't play Moore's because just defensively he gives it all back so one of the areas where P R has has little bit of a blind spot. Is We know blocks steals fouls. It's harder for it to evaluate just generally bad defense and I think where the modern NBA has changed. Things is that you can't just be paint big anymore. You have to be able to get out in the perimeter a little bit and do some things in space is and some of these guys like Boba is the most glaring example Just get exposed in those situations and his canter is another guy who really struggles on defense but if you just look at. Pr Puts up huge hugely productive player in terms of points and rebounds. So that's one of the things really for big especially is that there's a defensive component into it that it can't quite capture in two thousand nineteen version of basketball so as fans who are trying to understand how the game works accent. Also you know I'm interested in and numbers and looking at the stats. Like what would your suggestion be for statistical diet for a fan of like public like facing numbers assuming that there's no just perfect all in one stat like what are good Combo to look at if you WanNa see what guys contributions are. Yes yes oh aside from PR. I would say like. VPN is good because it's available right on basketball reference so it's it's it's easily accessible and it does a pretty good job of kind of mapping things that are important to winning two to a player's own production usually will get a pretty good idea with that. There's some more more complex stuff that's out there that gets deeper into the we's is probably a little bit more accurate on some levels. What's the concept behind? BPM basically they took what what what math they took the stats that map to real plus minus and extrapolate BOKOR production. So that basically they can look at what your in your own statistical production and say. Well this is what your real plus minus should be. And what's weird is that it ends up being more stable than actual real plus minus which which tends to have Lots of lots of peaks and valleys from year to year with the same players So it was really interesting concept and plus minus for for offense and defense For each player so so it's a pretty good conceptual sexual framework behind it. Now there's there's also something a little more advanced called. Pi PM invented by this guy named Jacob Goldstein. Take some of the player tracking data. That's now available and kind of goes goes to town on that and so is able to evaluate things a little bit more deeper deeper level and then come away with ratings for each player and the other thing that does which is really neat is a strips out The luck component in other words looking looking just at so would a lot of people started doing to thousands. Originally it was just looking at plus minus like how your team is on the court. Procedure team is off the court art. Then they started looking at well that depends on who you play with actually so started looking at who the other nine players were on the court and then as they got deeper into it they realize the problem was actually even the more complicated in that you have to factor out that there's a major luck component when you're dealing with small samples of minutes Where you know whether they're open threes or going in or not or whether the other team is shooting ninety percent from the line fifty percent from the line while you're in the game which you know you can't defend free throws that's just luck doc? And that's kind of stuff that has tended to even out over time. But when you break this stuff down into smaller minute samples to get a five-man units or differentiate with this team is displayed on the floor with versus that player on the floor. Then you really have to account for it so it gets get to be some pretty complex math and and accounting. They've done that with Pi PM. So that that's another really interesting metric all right. I just looked up BPM. I am box plus minus on basketball reference and look number one. Look Don Chech- that guy. He's good no matter what numbers you look at no matter what statistic and somebody maybe who is better in back plus minus than pr because it becomes for defense. Who would that be John? Yes so you look guys like GonNa be or Patrick Beverley Who are primarily defensive players for their teams and and do a really good job of it and so that maybe don't have the the The offensive stats that that would pump up their PR. But they're good players nonetheless you kind of alluded to player tracking data. And I wanted to ask you about just what the biggest differences are from when you started to today that obviously being a big there was nothing like that in the ninety s and also just curious about you know how when you started there may be less stuff available but it was more publicly available. All stuff was more kind of public facing and now the trend in all sports is Bente make numbers data more proprietary and so I'm curious if you could talk about that trend as well yeah made the. NBA is actually done a pretty good job of making it public and so it's just a question of a lot of the research. Search now has been taken into private hands because a lot of the best analytics people have been hired by teams. So that that's been probably the biggest communal loss. I would say the challenges completely upside down now though because twenty years ago when I was doing this is the biggest challenge was getting any kind of data at all and now the challenges you have so much data that it's dealing with it and understanding what to do with it and making sense of what what matters and what doesn't matter this episode of Hang Up and listen is sponsored by electrify America America. Electric cars may seem a little different but new technology always seems weird at first. Even podcast seemed weird when they first came out in the early two thousands they were called audio blogs and they were downloaded onto MP three players but now people all over the world. Listen to podcasts. All the time just like podcasts. Electric cars are normal. Now they have longer ranges meaning. They're not.
"hollinger" Discussed on Slate's Hang Up and Listen
"He also does a weekly podcast with. Nate Duncan it is called the Hollander Dunkin NBA until earlier this year. He who is a senior executive with the Memphis Grizzlies and before that he was one of the first and most prominent basketball sabre magicians launching the website alleyoop writing the annual all pro basketball prospectus. Books then joining up with Si dot com and then ESPN DOT com. John Hollinger. Thank you for joining me today. Hey thanks for having me so I wanted to start out before we get into that long and interesting by our that. I just ran through with something New Jersey. and that's something slash Josh. Someone is Luca Danni Chech- he had forty one points ten assists and six rebounds against the rockets on Sunday night a few days before that. He's scored thirty five points. And and got a triple double in just twenty five minutes. This dude is twenty years old. He's led the Mavericks to an eleven and five record and he leads the League in player Efficiency Rating. Pr We are the statistic. You invented Luca Danni Tran. He's incredible. It's been amazing to watch the story for me the NBA season so far. Yeah I mean it is incredible. Well you know it. His Age Junkie said he's only twenty and he's pretty close to averaging a triple double thirty point six points. Ten point one rebounds nine point eight assists so just a phenomenal nominal start to his season. What's so interesting? Is that in his draft year. When he came out he was kind of looked at more of the finished product where some of the other players who are vailable in the top half of that lottery were seen more as guys for five years down the road who maybe could possibly have more ceiling? And what's happened instead is. He's made a phenomenal improvement. Just MS rookie. Year to a second year whereas last year he was a pretty good player. He's now become one of the best players in the league and an MVP candidate for sure and it's really bolted Dallas into an echelon that they didn't expect to be in this quickly he's a guy who his greatness is not subtle if you watch him play the ability that he has to do the kind of harden ask step back three as and also just to get into the lane and find teammates. He's he's obviously very different from Lebron James but his ability as a bigger guy to get into the lane find teammates for three point. Shots is Lebron asking asking some ways and extremely rare and he's just such a fun player to watch too. Yeah I mean. He's a brilliant passer and he's able to move defenders with his eyes and throw awesome passes where you kind of rewinding the tape and go. Wow how did how did he do that. And he's always had that in his game where I think he's really refined. His game is his ability to get places off the dribble which he even though he played as a as a point guard even in Spain. He he wasn't as Craftier as early is nimble getting where he wanted to go off the bounce and that limited him a little bit and then just as a finisher in the pain. He's added a variety of floaters and little head fakes and stuff And much more lethal as well I remember there was. I might not get this exactly right but one of the first times. The warriors played the mavs and Luca's rookie. Ear draymond green saying this guy's going to be a problem actually he already is a problem like ucs very quickly gun the respect of his NBA Pierce. I think he just has a pretty advanced basketball. IQ And so the veterans that he plays against really respect that and so you mentioned the draft. The Grizzlies is you're still with them at the time. Yeah drafted Jaren Jackson. Junior right after Luca Danni. which would you have taken Luca? If he was available I don't I want to give away too much here. We would have been happy with either of them and in the position we were in. It wasn't because we already were down a future first round pick. It wasn't really plausible for us to trade up up so we were GONNA end up taking with the draft. gave us at four. It looked for a while. Like we were GONNA end up with Luka because it seemed like Atlanta was gonNA take Jaren Jackson number three three and then they worked out the trade with Dallas to move down to five and tank trae young instead so I mean Jaren had a really good rookie year. He's still really young and really young physically to where he's growing into his body and so I think you know when he gets into his mid twenties. That's when you really going to see the best from him but we'll see how it goes there there. These are like really small things that affect the future of NBA Franchises. Because the grizzlies obviously would have had a different path. If Luca Dandridge was on the team rather than Jaren Jackson junior now John Mirant these are the things that determine championships they determine. Oh you know catch is determined. They determined so much just goes three and who goes for well Luca Danni which might have cost job Moran to tell you. Yeah the trade between the Hawks and the Mavericks but for Donncha Chen and trae young. was that something that surprised you when that happened was that I don't remember or is that like a thing that people in the League we're talking about as a possibility I mean we knew Dallas like Dante quite a bit so I guess it didn't surprise us that they would try to trade up. It surprises a little that Atlanta traded down just because the perception of that draft was that there were three real super talents and that there was some good players after that probably not quite on the same level. Now trae young. It's turned out to be. I think better than people initially thought. So that's taking some the sting of that but I I still think you'd rather have Luca probably than trae young plus Cam Radish. WHO's the player they eventually got with the pick from Dallas? I think that is definitely right. Even though trae young has been really really good this year. All right let's rewind to how you got your start. Were you a bill James Reader as a kid where your bath all my God yes. Yeah that was what started everything. Everything was me reading all the bill. James Books when I was a teenager and I just devoured those things and eventually I got to the point where I was a big basketball. Aw Fan and basketball player at the time so I started messing around with basketball stats to see what can be done on that front. Because it felt very primitive to me that we just had kinda points per game and field goal percentage. And you couldn't really didn't really get at the essence of who was good and who wasn't have you thought about as you've been doing this now for a long time why I was like why history developed that way that baseball would have had this sort of statistical revel revolution revolution before basketball other sports. Well I mean. Baseball was probably the best setup for where it's just a series of one on one batter pitcher confrontations and then it just had this history with its own statistics that was so much richer than basketball basketball. Even start. Keep track of block shots 'til the seventies so. Oh baseball you go back to nineteen hundred and you have complete box scores of every single game. I mean there's just a tradition in baseball. It didn't exist in basketball of record keeping that made need for more right for this type of thing. That's a weird that they wouldn't have tracked block shots. It seems very easy to track. And it's like the numbers get very absolute. There's just yeah I mean there. Just I wasn't a lot of thought to put into this statistical record of the game beyond just very basic nuts and bolts and so is this the nineties. When when did you start really looking at the stuff seriously and trying to figure out where you could contribute? Yeah so this would be as we got into the nineties. As I you know became an actual actual adult Then I created my own website in nineteen ninety five and that probably took it to another level I really started getting very deep into into the weeds. On statistical methods with with basketball in ways of rating players and that's where player efficiency rating came from. So let's indulge in a little bit of back in my. Hey Day Here like how would you actually work with the stats. And how would you get them back. Then like this was pre basketball reference. Yeah what did you realize that. Now there there was a site that had them though it was just a random guy both of them in the website still up there doug stats dot com. I mean that's what I used originally. Can we shout out that guy. His name is Doug as name is Doug. I know that so we take take those stats and I would just dump dump them into excel in and start playing and who were some of your peers at that point or who. Did you really look to for guidance or collaboration. There there wasn't a whole lot of guidance. Collaborations just you and Doug the silent partner era you know the Doug stats page and then eventually after a couple of years a couple of other interested people guys like Dean Auburn Kevin Pelton. I mean the Bulletin Board Forum called. Apr Metrics which was essentially a snack. Statistics discussion groups so a lot of useful. Things came from that but that probably Ram probably getting five years later at least by that was like early two thousands all right so explain player efficiency rating where it came from. And what you were hoping to achieve with it. Would I was hoping to achieve was something similar or to opie s in baseball where you could look at one number and at least get an idea of how effective somebody was. And maybe it wouldn't tell you everything but we'll tell you a lot more than points per game or fuel percentage would and I wanted it to be immediately accessible in people's minds. What what a certain number met? And and that's why set the league average to fifteen 'cause I figured if somebody averaged fifteen points a game you think he's all right and just the way. The scale worked out that the the best ratings would end up in the high twenties and low thirties was perfect. Because that's where kind of the leaders in scoring would end up so I just thought it mapped out really well to what was already calibrated. And people said it's is it fair to say that around this time kind of similar to baseball. How there it could be a guy who had three hundred kind of an empty three hundred stall singles might overrated that there were players who would score you know? Fifteen fifteen or twenty on like a super-low field goal percentage volume shooter and and a ton of minutes. I think I think people really didn't understand the impact of of minutes. It's an looking at things. Permanent was much more useful way to evaluate players. And I think that really was probably the biggest thing that that PR really early uncovered was that some of these players who were had decent scoring rates. But we're playing an insane number of minutes probably weren't as good as you thought Latrell predisposed to be a perfect example and on the other hand you had these players..
"hollinger" Discussed on Slate's Hang Up and Listen
"The following podcast contains explicit language. Hello I am Josh Levin Lavine Slates National Editor and the author of the Queen. This is slates sports podcast. Hang up and listen for the week of November twenty fifth two thousand eighteen. Happy Thanksgiving thanksgiving to one and all including my friend Stephan fats. This who is out this week and his absence. I'm GONNA ditch the usual Hangup Format Nutri you all day long. The conversation with John Hollinger. John left the basketball nerd media to become a high ranking executive with the Memphis Grizzlies. He has now returned to the basketball nerd media where he is subjected to Chit Chat by the likes of me. He writes for the athletic. He podcasts. We'll get him in a second. But before we get to that that one to let you know about our live show in Washington. DC next week it is at the Hamilton live. It's an amazing venue downtown in DC. If you've never been you must asked go. We are going to be joined by some of our favorite journalists folks. You've heard on this program before. Gene demby Lindsey Gibbs Dave McKenna. Good a slate late DOT com slash. Live for tickets and information. We would love to see you there. It is December the third Tuesday night in Washington. DC At the Hamilton. It's late DOT com slash life. This episode is brought to you by electrify America electric cars. They may seem a little different But new technology it always seems weird at first electric cars though. They are normal now. They have faster recharging times. You don't have to wait around all day for a charge. They're they're more models to choose from sedans. SUV's luxury vehicles and even motorcycles. You can find one that fits your life with more affordable models unless routine maintenance since they may actually help you save money electric cars. They're normal now learn more and normal now dot com my guest today is a senior in your NBA columnist for the athletic..
"hollinger" Discussed on KLBJ 590AM
"Hollinger and stated that person well I'm thinking of starting this next couple weeks in the struggle to look at and do but to research select a time that would be auspicious so in this particular case doesn't look good or bad for president trump well you see what one of the things that I try and do for everyone his sort of alter the question because that is just what you asked me a lot of clients last me things like older creature at your grade for this planet they heard some planet is crossing over this here their chart and they will say to me is that mark is that good or bad I have no idea whether it's good or bad because people have the free will like you brought up member in the previous in a previous idea somebody say a psychic or somebody strong feeling don't go out today don't do this have a terrible feeling that the defense is going to happen but do we know whether or not an event to state it happens it may not be that the car incident that you spoke about that the person then decides to just we usually walk down and you know the street and near where they live in a branch from a tree falls on them because it was stated that something was going to happen and then the person change their course of of their destiny because of of somebody giving them a premonition can you alter state I believe from everything I've studied this is important I'm glad you asked that question because in the spiritual books that are part of like you mentioned I I lived in the I felt privileged to be a thin toward a community in northern Scotland that still is in existence people around the world not a cold not anything like that at all it's it's an educational community and I learned a lot from being as a organization collusive switches L..
Madonna is frequently hours late for concerts, a fan says. He's suing.
"We sure are and someone with Madonna to pay up the Florida fanned by the name of Nate Hollander is taking the icon to court because she's starting her concerts at ten thirty at night much too late says Hollander who filed the lawsuit Monday in Miami Dade County court against both live nation the promoter and Madonna because when he bought those tickets the concert was supposed to start at eight thirty Hollinger says refunds are not being offered to people who don't want to attend the show because of the late start no word yet from Madonna or live nation
Washington D.C. residents to vote on plan to give tipped workers a raise
"Centers on wages for for workers initiative seventy seven passes tipped restaurant workers in dc would be paid a minimum wage of fifteen dollars an hour by twenty twentyfive cathy hollinger with the restaurant association of metropolitan washington says that would be a pay cut for tipped workers who now make anywhere from twenty dollars to forty five and up our but anna ramirez with the restaurant opportunity centers united says the majority of tipped workers in the strict are not making forty fifty dollars an hour they are not able to feed their families heather curtis wma allen l.