20 Episode results for "Hingis"

Roland Garros Re-Lived 1999: Graf vs. Hingis - Ecstasy, Agony, Aggro

The Tennis Podcast

49:32 min | 9 months ago

Roland Garros Re-Lived 1999: Graf vs. Hingis - Ecstasy, Agony, Aggro

"Hi this is Marion Bartoli Mats Wilander. This is Mary Carillo. I'm stunned rowing. I'm letting you it. I'm andy this is Yannick Noah and you're listening to tennis podcast. The weekends coming your way here on running. Garros relived from the tennis. Podcast because we are going back to nineteen ninety nine and that is our sole concentration for the next couple of shows starting with Steffi Graf Against Martina Hingis. Tomorrow it's going to be Andre Agassi. Sandra Medvedev Catherine Matt when we drew this up these two days were pretty much. The the front of the queue went. It was such a difficult shortlist to draw up the some some wonderful matches and memories. That didn't make the cut of fifteen matches. We're covering in this series but these two there was never a moment that that was not going to happen Catherine. Yeah absolutely that the too much is that have I mean? People knew was great at the time looking back on the write-ups of both finals and reflecting on the tournament people knew that special finals weekend displayed out but even so they've both taking on more significance and more intrigue as time has passed and of course you've got the added story of the the to win is ending up married after the weekend thankfully still married which is just yeah. You couldn't write it. I mean you could write it. But you'd have to David Imagination. That is real life. So very cool and the matches themselves the storylines. They both had everything the one we've just witnessed between Steffi Graf Martina Hingis. We add a whale of a time over the last couple of hours. Just the sounds coming out of us as we watch those to those plays Duke it out this just so much that goes on between Steffi Graf and Martina Hingis in the nineteen ninety nine final. So what else was happening in? Nineteen ninety nine. The Euro is introduced in eleven countries. Bill Clinton was acquitted in his impeachment trial and the Millennium Dome opened in London. Now known as the Oto arena ever been to the millennium time eight you before the arena. Ny Eleven said it was rubbish. Didn't they see I would take issue with what he did? Did say it was rubbishy right but I went another die there and I thought it was great fun. Was It really cold? Yeah yeah it was really cold. Although I think when I went I think I might have gone east or something and probably a few of the gremlins quite a few of those early on. It was immediately obvious when you walked in. This should be a sporting arena. I don't think wasn't being talked about as one at the time but it just felt like what ended up becoming some really glad that they manage to make of it what they have in the tennis wells and getting into this. French Open final. You've got Martina. Hingis aged eighteen. She was the world number one she already won. Five Grand Slam tournaments including the most recent one that they'll straighten open. Steffi Graf is twenty nine seven years had passed since her narrow defeats to Monica. Seles that we were talking about a couple of days ago she'd already won twenty one grand slam singles titles but was clearly nearing the end. She missed four Grand Slam tournaments with injury and would only play one more major tournament after this French Open and Matt on the eve of his. I mean they'd they'd gone very different routes to gets to the final. Hingis had just been sweeping all before her. She had no problems at all to bait. Ranchi sanchez-vicario in the semi-finals straight-sets whereas graph having to fight tooth and nail she beats sellers in three sets every round she played. I think didn't she beat Davenport in in in a long one as well. It was a real struggle for her to get to the final. She'll be and young Cornucopia as well who is playing pretty well at that time and between the two of them. There was a bit of needless recall. There was yes. Just another point. Is that Martina? Hingis beat Emily. Memorize Marin round two. Which is which was a repeat of that year's Australian Open Final. Just incredible then meet so early. The next slam but Yes there was some need or because the back story is that lots of people believe that Hingis is success. At the slams from ninety seven woods came partly or perhaps logs the because Steffi Graf was less of a factor because I was having lots of injury trouble within on her knee and back and rish at all sorts of problems and Hingis therefore had a route through and obviously played brilliant tennis but didn't have to go through graph so much and he didn't really like that narrative obviously and she had a few swipes at graph. Actually just before this fine. Oh she said that. Steffi is have some results in the past but it's a faster more athletic game now. She's old. Her time is passed Oldham and she also said she's just a runner who never gives up. When when did she say that this was before the final cry? Oh and graph was not getting involved in any of that narrative whatsoever. She says I don't feel like I have anything to prove which I thought was interesting to compare now to Serena. I think I could be wrong. Maybe Serena has said something like that but it's always felt like she's always thought that she still has something to prove even in the back end of her career and even though she doesn't and growth said that she entered Aris ready to shop and Ho Will Wimbledon. She wasn't in that much fall not much as expected over on the clay and yet she got through to the final. So yeah that's the that's the backdrop for the fine. Just just perfectly poised. I think I think in in Defensive Martina Hingis is spectacular arrogance and is is of the most the arrogance that she had during these two engines six weeks when she was world number. One for me. It was one of the sort of like brands of arrogance. Because it was sort of youthful naievty to it almost but in her defense slightly the the NBC Brewed Coast Which we've just watched. They were obsessed with Steffi Graf being old as well. I mean for me. It's far more remarkable that Martina. Hingis was eighteen years of age and playing this much as a multi grand slam champion. Steffi Graf was twenty nine years of age and still contesting Grand Slam title. They they were bowled over. By the fact that the aging twenty nine year old Steffi Graf was still in Grand Slam finals and to be fair to that. They ran a an interview clip with the with growth from prior to the final and. That was a very surprising vulnerability about her. I mean which I had rarely. I rarely remember saying you know she. She delivered a similar line to the one that much is said about how low her expectations had been for the tournament but just in this sort of slight her voice there just wasn't the same level of conviction and and that was very evident in the first set. I think it was such a different Steffi. Grow to the one we saw against Monica. Seles in one thousand nine hundred just on the edge points though. It was a very different time if you consider that. Hingis achieved when she won three Grand Slams New Year is the equivalent of Cocoa Gulf. Now going and winning three Grand Slams in a year that that's the age we're talking about Steffi Graf at twenty nine at already had thirteen fourteen years at the top level of the game whereas now you'd be looking to pretty much peak around about twenty eight twenty nine. I think just being that shift really in terms of career and career expectancy radio when you you come into your own but tell that Xena Hingis David Wells. Yes but but that's the thing back then. Everybody came into their own as as a mid teenager late teenager. If you think of CAPULETI sellers and Hingis Venus and Serena this is this Steffi yourself this is what happened back then coca Gulf feels like such an outline right now. That feels unusually young to be making these strides. But but you're right. I mean graph relatively speaking was seen as one of the that said. That is still a spectacular. The rude thing to say in a press conference ahead of playing the all time. Great Steffi Graf. It's hilarious and I absolutely love. It and I person was an enormous fan of of Martina. Hingis from the way she played the game through to the way she carried herself. Because it was just so funny half the time the way you laughed Catherine when Matt was read in that quote that pretty much mirrors the reactions that we all had jeering probably half a dozen moments of the match where. I can't really believe what I'm saying. Half the time had the way she reacts to stuff the sort of petulance the the precociousness of her the way she works about as if she owns the place and she can't believe that my sense is she can't believe this. All woman at the other end of the cold is winning anything any points and there are some I mean in the first set she absolutely dismantles and there are points where they they might have a an exchange that ends on a graph fall and winter and whilst the ball is still flying past Hingis Hingis is complaining and Mocking Herself. Because she's giving her a four hundred to hit. She's engaged in a four hundred one. Just do that I mean. Of course she's GonNa hit a four hundred of that. It's like you have anything else. She hasn't got chance. This is ridiculous what am I doing and it just. Every single raise the eyebrow laugh at herself arms in the. It all communicates. It's so funny to watch issue wasn't interested in giving her opponent any credit whatsoever the she got an just a remarkable whatever face which uses a lot she's a brat she's an obsolete grows face. I think maybe I'm I'm going to be overly sympathetic. Woods Heavier of Montana. Because I find it so relatable the teenager me was what she not going. Well yeah that's and you know. I love that. She even exactly how she's feeling. It doesn't Choi to to to mosque. It all filter it in in any way with her face with a comments this is this is the woman that was responsible for the what rivalry I win. All the money line is just great but but I do remember. I have the of memories if watching that final being aware of it. Certainly my parents would have been more into it than I was at the time and I remember my mom being a polled at Martina. Hingis is behavior appalled. I was probably sat. They can go. Martino do for stroppy girls everywhere but this trump didn't like it this of interesting contrast between the immaturity of her in her behavior and the maturity of tennis though because a tennis in that I set especially when she's at her best is so intelligent and she meticulously methodically picks apart the game of off honing in on the weaknesses. Maneuvering her around the coal having the sense of where the next shots going to land being their prepared and in time to hit it and graph sicknesses shot her inside out. Forehand goes straight into his signature. Show it which is a backhand up the line and time and again she just dominated the rallies in that respect and it was her match. It was on her racket that match until she let it not be with her. Your vice stuff for certain a half fingers looked like just about the complete mayor. There was no weakness. She was able to as you say. Tyke on the best of graph. Give me your best shot. Let's fine I can handle him and I. I've always been of the view that Martina Hingis House. The best can't that I've ever seen in women's tennis. I think she could put it anywhere on the cold anytime she wants from anywhere and you could bank on it. She was getting inside at four and smacked her back and she was just dismissing them as if they were nothing for clean winners but that was for a set a set and a half or even a set and a bit. And the the reaction that you you have there that you've you've described. Catherine of your mother's really takes off early in the second set. Where hinges for some reason just self destructs? Because she is setup. She's to love after the break and then there is a close line call on her on her forehand which she is insistent is in and she's pointing down the other into the courts the empire go on check. It's you've got to check that markets in umpire refuses to yield and Hingis walks around the other side of the net up to the mark and circles it right in Steffi Graf face which you are not allowed to do that is not in the rules and the French crowd start booing and whistling and she becomes public enemy number one right there and I mean but she's she's adamant no it's I. I think the other day you were saying Catherine you could really relate to this idea of of frustration if the UMPIRES are not coming down from their chair when you have evidence right in front of you that you are right and it copy checks and that's how she looked. Look it's the evidence is here. I'm going to show you myself. And and the reaction from Chris Evert and John McEnroe who joins the country halfway through and was describing as genius that that's how he clearly was a huge fan of hers as well but Chris Avatar felt was a while she rated her was was not impressed with what she was seeing behaviorally and in fact intensive application at times from from Hingis and the view was. You can't do that you. That's going to be a point penalty and sure enough she. She got a point penalty for unsportsmanlike conduct. We'll mcenery mentioned the D. words. He's when she's stuck once. She crossed the traverse the the the nets to the other side he said. Oh that's default. Certainly is a men's tennis I it wasn't quite cooling for it but he was sort of it was almost like I would be defaulted for that. Say She deserves to be but actually it was only. It was only warning. It was the fact that she had had echos a little bit. Here of the two eight hundred. Us Open final but it was actually the racket abuse a few games early. Which at the time seemed pretty innocuous it was actually that which which ditched her up because the T. combined defenses led to the point penalty and at the time. The secret was warning point penalty match Which McEnroe said he was acutely aware of now. 'cause what was it Nine years earlier he'd been voted from the Australian Open when he didn't realize it was warning point match. He thought there was a game a game penalty in somewhere. But it was funny. How the agro coincided with McEnroe's arrival in the country bulbs perfectly found it funny. How gifts after going round the mark went just refused to pile on. She sat down on a chair and wanted the referee out presumably thinking that the referee might make situation better but actually the referee just obviously sided with the umpire. Gave her the point. Bounties made it worse for. He's amazing she lit scream and scream and scream to lend sick one of the lovely tangents as well was. The referee was Georgina Clark. Who's no longer with us? But somebody that I knew in the very early stages of my career and and actually interviewed me once for job which I didn't get that. She was absolutely lovely. She was so nice lost low years now when I was coming out of them but I wasn't I guess I just didn't quite make the great but But She Georgina Clark was with somebody. Had everybody's respect. She was always came across this fair and and calm to and she came across very calmly in this situation she understood the emotions are running high out there and she just very straightforwardly delivered the news to Martina Hingis. That no you're going to get a warning because you're not allowed to go over the other side of the net and king is clearly just didn't know that rule and if she didn't know that role while I'm doing it anyway and that's the she carried is that she owned the place and it you can understand why rubbed so many people up the wrong way she was she was laughing at cerrone errors and mocking the situations including the crowd and I sense that she was sort of mocking the fact that well. I should be out of beat her easily. I mean is that is that I mean. She's not that good. I mean there is the sense. I was getting from his body language but at the same time I I don't get angry with for it. I sort of I love afford it. I think she's she's immensely. I see it in kids in my own kids at times that sits of response and it's immaturity paths but it's very very funny you experienced dealing with irrational Entirely matter no yeah but the thing is the time is these reactions are both rational and irrational at the same time. Aren't they You can understand the emotion of it's all in. There is a point that particular hanging. She's making a point and it's a fair one. It's just the it's not actually correct and and imagine the stress because I in a lot of the focus in in the commentary was on was on Steffi Graf in a kind of a resurgence have potential lost Harare and of course it was a loss to our in terms of winning gone slams but hang was aiming to complete the career Grand Slam and there was very little focus on that and I suspect that's because you know and even if the post much speeches and everything the feeling was well if it's not this one it will be another one. It's inevitable that she will complete the career slam. She's too good not. She's eighteen times on her side so it was so little talk about it but actually that is just an enormous immense thing. Think about the next day. We'll be up to talk about this more but I rather suspect when we watched the the one thousand nine men's final with the Agassi Medvedev. There will be an awful lot more. Talk about the completion. If the career slam for for Andre Agassi because it been a long time coming it was very not a foregone conclusion it would happen but with. Hingis. We'll talk about this with more. The sort of every tragedy in and pay us in the in the much commentary about how. We'll don't worry Martina you will win one. Of course you'll win one. And of course she didn't she didn't win a French Open but never another grandson one another Grand Slam and but you know just because the commentators went talking about it doesn't mean it wasn't the the primary thing on Latina h`angus's mind and the stress if that must have been immense and she was only eighteen interested in as well she. She went on from there all Ankara and still broke in that second set and was serving for the match was six four five full. She says the man and she got fifteen. Love three points away yes. She kept having these sort of crises. And you're thinking what it's over. She's lost her. She's kind of lost her mind but then she would recover herself which actually made it all the more extraordinary that she didn't go on to win this match because she seemed to get over the emotional problems that she was having an recover her tennis. And then something else would happen. but I think also graphs reaction to that whole incident at the start of the second set is interesting because she did not simply raise her game. He started punching holes a lot more holes in defenses and I think she said off towards that was the moment I knew. She was so fixated on this one point. I knew that she wasn't mentally seeing the big picture and focused and that was one of the moments where I knew I had. I knew I had back into the match. She she up to power noticeably in that period from five four down and she she ended up reeling. Three games in a row off to win that set and then when the next one. That's four games in a row and then there was that massive toilet break that Hingis took down in in the third set. She goes off the court. For what seven minutes? And she comes back with a completely new hairstyle to boos and whistles from the French crowd. It was like stalls in there is she. She emerged from the looking like from person tonight. I'm going to have her aim like she needed to be different. After a game if the The third set unfortunately the just like on stars in the rise oh broadcast cutout the actual period of transformation So we were unable to see how how growth is dealing with that period. The time she came back I looked like was really composed about it. And I'm thinking lemon AC. I wouldn't be that'd be losing over this. But maybe maybe she was while it was happening as she came back with her hair and a completely different style. New scrunchy Utah at completely new outfits. She looked like she'd had a shower. She looked really fresh and then She's she's booed and whistled back onto the. She's taking her sweet time. It's not a it's not a brisk walk. It's more of a sort of lawler up but to the chair. And then she she has to to go and serve and instead of making her way swiftly to the service line she stops halfway to to put some clips in our hair. Almost as much as you know the end of the match. It was very clear how how distressing it was for the crowder against her. And this mcenery comments this at the time and she's doing the clips is she says he says it's like back if there's if there's anybody left in the ground that hasn't turned against to yet she's trying to make sure she turns them against her as well. It seemed at the time that she didn't if to thirds but later it seemed that were given and she gave it was pretty hard paste tennis. She then played. Grass was a runaway train. She did have one bright back but really graph just stick celebrated away from that point and Hingis was was really erotic. She started missing. She was step slow to every ball but the drama was Novi it when they got to match point five two for Graf Hingis serving match points down. She throws in an underarm serve almost for night. Great the job says it was Michael. Chang would have been proud of that. I mean that Zogheb even better than his vasan massively under spun underarm serve that just went sideways when it bounced and and one of the point and the crowd just could not handle in fact when she hit the serve while the rally was going on they started building and whistling and then intensified when she won the point because they felt like she was just trawling Steffi Graf. They thought she's disrespecting this great champion. We saw now reaction from graph at that point things. Carry on there. There's another matchpoint. There's another saved a match. Point has a chance then she guys match point down again and then she hits another drums which she she didn't win. The points in and booing starts again. Hingis goes in has been out with the umpire. I think about a line coal and then Graf lost it in graph comes to the Empire's chair and says. Can we just play tennis up? A think will hingis approach. The umpire about was the fact the as she was going to hit the serve they still booing and jeering oversea. The crab runs whether she was going to serve again and she did but I think king is felt that. She thought that I shouldn't have counted because I mean it was. It was rule casse at the moment. She hit that serve. Yeah I as they were kind of doing Already before she served and then she served and underarm of which was pictures of really bad one was out and then she had the confrontation with umpire. She was icon. He will bring me. She climbed into my breath. Well that was happening. And and that's when Graf kind I have words with Inga's and just say can we play a and this is at match point next point. She's one of the mental. So I mean. I don't think I've ever seen that before where a player loses a temper with an opponent and then the next point. She's celebrating having won her twenty second that her final Grand Slam tournaments career so she erupts in celebrations Hingis suddenly the emotion of it all overwhelmed her and the the intense and she starts to cry and she just puts her bag on a shelter and walks off in a health as if she's not going to take any part in the presentation you can you can have your French Open title Steffi you can you can lump it all of you. I'm off and she was just stomps off the court and the next thing they go for a break and Steffi's all happy and they setting up the massive podium. That's now replaced the trophy ceremony in the crowd which is and then after the cash will break Martina. Hingis comes back out onto the court with her mother. Her mother Melanie Molitor. Who's also head coach? Who has her arm around her? And she's almost carrying around to the Colt who whilst Chingiz salting and looking as if she can't really take this this whole situation they then have the presentation to Steffi Graf. I is the champion which is a funny look to us now. Isn't it because that doesn't happen these days? It's always the runner up first. And then the champion but it that way around and then. Hingis just still. Can't bring yourself to be magnanimous about any of it. She's just she's just sort of every everything that happens is greeted graphs graphs. Says you know you're going to win. One of these one day she gives us sort of whatever OECD something that Steffi Growth Christopher Murray gorilla that. We're going to hear from the that they didn't they? Were all saying you're going to win one of these. I think Steph. She said don't worry about it. We'll the cameron's a great job at this point. Is that both in short. Steffi sort of slightly obscuring crippled face if Martina Hingis and she just does this. I this this not quite an Iro but just enough if a face when when Steffi Graf says that when when Steffi's given the microphone she goes to to try and handed over to to Hingis to speak first and Hingis doesn't even verbally reply. She just does assaultive hand gesture and a face which says absolutely not a fairly. She does speak. We didn't see that on the but she does. She does say a few words in Franch apparently to try and get the crowd back on side a little bit and I think it I think it sort of works. But then in a post-match Press conference or interview or something. She seems to make it worse again by saying that. The French didn't understand my tennis because I make it look easy and is I do think she brought a lot of on herself. I did feel slightly. Sorry a particularly when you can trust the reaction to the underarm. Serve that Michael. Chango like they went wild for that serve and they booed Martina Hingis. Doing it didn't seem to be didn't seem quite fair. I didn't think it was the fact that it was all match point and Steffi Graf in her speech mean she was on cloud nine. She described it as the most emotional. The best moment she'd had on on a code on ten school She she poked the bed. That was the prison crowding. Didn't she you the first thing she did? We thank them for the ferocious support. She said I feel French today and they were supporting but the elephants in the in the stadium at that point was that it was also anti Hingis sentiment hitting English does make the game look easy. I think she's one of the most talented plas- I've ever seen really and and I mean we'll we'll do it. We're going to do a separate show on her Wimbledon and we'll we'll get more into what happened to her thereafter because when you watch play like she did for set in the half. It's it's as good as tennis gets really. I will always remember when when she was world number one and and I was working at the ATP and are proposed to the WTO that we do a photo shoot with her and Roger Federer and they turned me down the said she's the world number one. I mean Russia. Federal is this young upstart time But Hingis was was just a joy to watch but she rubbed people up the wrong way and she did not seem aware of that Radio. Aware of why it happened and also didn't care so it's very very entertaining to watch that for graph. Though it was yes. She was nearing the end of her career. I we we spoke for this series of shows with hines. Gunshot had coach Chew. You may remember. We heard from a couple of days ago. Who was there right at the start of his time with her. Was that nine hundred. Ninety two final. That graph had against Monica says and here he was seven years on and he said he felt in the final that grass could get into the third set. A superior fitness would tell and although he was dismantling his play by setting a break he thought that history histrionics particularly going around the other side of the net woodwork. Against I fell at a time. Oh you know when you do dad. It's it's almost like a show of force. If you're a teenager to show like I can do anything lack. You go on the other side and Blah Blah Blah and. I was thinking But you doing it against the wrong player because this is not going to intimidate her. It's GonNa do the opposite so almost like oh you this so badly. Maybe you're not so certain after all you know that kind of thing and I can't say if that was a turning point but it was certainly something Felt that help stiffy because that also kind of woke up the crowd at the time. Nfl Lackey's here or there she can just win of some of those points cut and cut out some of those easy errors and important moments. This match could turn the third physically. Steffi was too strong for Martina so as this is living away and Martina felt. This is my title. I should have won this an hour ago and now this is happening. Not only. Are you losing the whole stadium? Wants you to lose. I mean that must have been an extremely difficult situation to handle for a teenager. And she couldn't once suffered won that title. That was a final Grand Slam title. Twenty second singles slam twelfth with you. Where do you feel that ranked for her and for you versus all the others? It was very very emotional. I have to say because there is such a difficult time prior to that because of all the injuries it was completely unclear if she was going to be able to play again and once she started playing it wasn't like she was a hundred percent not even close so we didn't know how long she was going to be able to play either so to combination of not even know if going to be there to enable to win. Not Knowing if it's the last time you there certainly adds to something and it makes the title even more special. I think everything one was special but that one kind of fans out because it could have been. The last two rain turned out. Was she went on to? Wimbledon and she reached the final she beat Venus. Williams should be Kim Clijsters classes and lost Davinci to Lindsay Davenport in the final And as you say people perhaps don't know where she finished her career well it was it was just a few weeks later in Carlsbad and it was first round against Amy Frazier. Third-set retired one. To what are your memories of that was that was it immediate? Was it clear that this is the end? It was because you it wasn't like she was one hundred percent or close to it neither the French nor at Wimbledon Things were breaking down here and they are. You know knee back. All kinds of things so daily practice was very very difficult to find the right amount. You know how much are supposed to hit balls a member going out for a jog and suddenly you have to stop because back was hurting that kind of thing when I arrived here in the first practice session. That wasn't her. There was absolutely no joy hitting balls. I mean if it was like okay we have to be out there and we're going to play a couple of days time but that practicing nothing to do with any practice session. We had prior to that so I felt like there wasn't the energy that used to be and she was basically asking yourself. What am I doing here so I was surprised at all when you walked off the court injured again saying I think I had it. It's amazing to hear it from from the whole mouth. Isn't it really from from somebody? Who was there at the time at the end of a player's career and I find it so interesting. We were watching and talking about Michael Chang the other day and I was telling you about probably a three year period at the end of his career when really it felt like he should have stopped a long time before we did in terms of how how I viewed it from the outside. Now it's up. It's always up to the individual is high and said there you've got you've got to make your own mind. Michael Chang was was winning a handful of matches and losing dozens in a year at the end of his career his Steffi Graf whose final three tournaments one French Open Final Wimbledon first round retired. Those the three tournaments. She played at the end. It's there are not many like that. I mean people point to Pete Sampras going out on the top and winning the US Open and then retiring but actually he had I think nine months of just trying to play again trying to try and again but just suddenly finding. You've got no motivation last and it just wasn't there anymore for him. So he an art for a long time with with graph. Yeah I mean I think it kind of goes that she was that decisive about it in the end But it's it does hit you. Doesn't it when we consider what we've just witnessed that incredible high that incredible achievement? And then actually. I've got nothing left. Yeah incredibly powerful stuff from From Heinz I found I was hanging on every word It would a shame a shame. Steffi Graf was enabled to retire With a mixed doubles Wimbledon title alongside. John mcenery that could have been her lost her all not a first drowning calls bad. Yes because McEnroe. Halfway through the commentary of the match that we've just watched comes into the commentary box and says she's agreed she's GonNa play mixed doubles with me at Wimbledon. A couple of weeks time and of course. That's that's what happened as well as playing the singles in reaching the final losing to to Lindsay Davenport she joined forces with John McEnroe. Who'd retired seven years earlier as a singles player but was very active on the champions tour. That's when I was traveling around with that tall. And he was playing incredibly good tennis but then particularly for his age and he was so pumped to be playing with Steffi Graf he was like a little boy who just been told that he could go into a sweet shop and have whatever he wants for the rest of the day and he was just just fired up and they they were a good doubles Pun ship. And they beat him. The Beet Justin Gimelstob in Venus Williams. That be other partnerships and they were on their way and then she made it into the final and she physically decided she couldn't do both and pulled out of that mixed doubles with John McEnroe and he has never forgiven her. I don't think he's even forgiven a now for that he he it hurt him cut him so deep that That she she pulled out of that. I mean it sounds funny. Doesn't it really ver- very he was so upset. My favorite stories mine to wonder if she regrets that now then. I know I wouldn't have thought so really. I think she she neuro mind. I mean I I understand from his position but I also understand it from her position But but I think he. He felt that she'd committed to him and she agreed that she would play. No matter what I think. He felt that she was going back on what that agreed. But you may May. Maybe he's not so by the now but you know what John John is like. He's so intensely so determined and he wanted to win against another chance. Maybe that's why she's not not a presence in in Tennessee anymore. She's afraid of bumpy. Into Scott Interesting. A few years later when Andre Agassi obviously had a number of really good years that followed when multiple Grand Slam titles whilst Steffi Graf had retired by then and when she would come back to the circuit the you could see this serenity that had come over her having made that decision having no longer got to think about competing and the stress. You see this time dot you when somebody comes back when they've retired at the right time and that they're ready for it in their lives and she she she and Andre got married and she had other interests in sort of what's incredibly hard together on their on their schools that they've they've put together in Las Vegas and she became a mother fairly soon afterwards to to Jaden and jazz and And I remember watching them on on when we were in the country box pie in the Australian. Open on the Melvin arena. I remember her out to the practice caught while he was hitting and just playing tennis with the with the little ad when he was just a toddler Jaden Gil and she just looked so relaxed and relaxed is not something that you could really describe. Steffi Graf is during her career as I recall it and from all the versions of events that I've heard from people that knew or over the years But it was the right time for her to retire but I think you also see the opposite. Sometimes I think retiring because you've lost motivation or you just just doesn't feel right anymore to keep going. It's actually a really difficult thing to get right. We see a lot of players retire and then come back because they can't fill that hole in their life not ready for their second phase of that line thing is so I it's in a great Steffi Graf that she did manage the colder at exactly the right time and she's She's cultivated a potential major league baseball player Jordan. Girls Is is quite a baseball plan. Not Not sure. Cultivated was the right the right verb their niece for child rearing night. We know it's all right. Final Word About Martina. Hingis as well as I said we`ll. We'll go deep into her career in the show that we do June Wimbledon. But we can't finish this without a word from Mary. Carillo who covered his career throughout. Let's see what she thought of her really enjoyed watching her. The Tiger as Nick Bollettieri Ritz. They in you'll I and that kid was such a she was. She had so much variety and she knew just went to use it and she wasn't she was pretty slight compared. That's what ended up happening by the way to my mind when I keep talking about the mental strength of the strength of the Great Standing became. The game became very physical. And he I think The blunt force trauma of so many players who were able to hit her is what got her way but back then when she was just a kid and she had she was so clever and she managed the courts so well there was no real place to attacker because she knew how to make the most of her strokes in her and her mind. I made her. She had a beautiful mind for the game. I loved watching has played. It didn't surprise me being the one that got away for her obviously is against cross that the French and ninety nine and that was kind of remarkable to see her not figure out a way to win that one. And what's interesting about that one okay at sixteen? At Wimbledon Chesney have a lot of pressure and she wins herself. The US Open. She says what she can do in Australia but the French that she never won the French. I mean which is the Sur Again. This service she grew up on and win grop feature and says. I'll never play this again by grigory new where that was her lineup but I still thought like well he gets is going to win to win a French and she didn't she didn't. I think Mary says what we were. All thinking the Steffi Graf said it to face in front of seventeen thousand people. You'll win one of these. And then she didn't Didn't win another slam. Which is and I know that. The narrative is in and Mary eluded to that that that the power game came along and it squeezed multi hangers out in the dumb imports of cools. Most most notably the Williams sisters. But actually she is she punched away through Steffi Graf. Who Okay. She wasn't the Williams sisters but she was power player. That was she was in the end as you say. She injected started injecting more pace on the ball in the second set Steffi Graf found a way to to make her a bull striking her power play. Tell in that much so I think it's a sort of slightly reductive narrative to say that sort of Martina Hingis game just kind of faded into into sort of feebleness with the wave of power tennis. I mean obviously that is true to a certain degree but she was doing against big hitters as well. She she Peak she was and of course the year before. This isn't talked about enough the year before the French. When she lost I think in the semi's she was going for the four slams in erode. She was going for the slam. The whatever we call it what do we call it. The the Jovic slam the Serena's so we are Martina Hingis will have a full show on her June Wimbledon Steffi Graf. We've had two wonderful conversations about her and Tomorrow we'll be talking about Andre Agassi as he tried to complete the career Grand Slam up against Andrei Medvedev that incredible year. Nine hundred ninety nine more of that coming your way not a I will be expecting starts on how often t plays with the same name have faced one another pressure. It's not quite the same name though is it. It sounds this. She can have that Catherine. Anyway we'll come stats on that. Were no problem. We the right man for the job and we'll be back with another one tomorrow. I hope you're enjoying these editions of tennis relived from the French Open. We will have many more of them coming your way over week. Two of what should have been but we're going back in time once again to nine hundred ninety nine tomorrow. Do Tell your friends if you enjoy this. Thanks for your company today. We'll see you tomorrow.

Steffi Graf Martina Hingis Steffi Graf tennis Steffi sort Hingis Venus Sandra Medvedev Catherine Matt Andre Agassi Michael Chang Martina Hingis Martina Hingis House French Open Monica Lindsay Davenport McEnroe Xena Hingis Steffi Mary Carillo Agassi Medvedev Yannick Noah John McEnroe
Wimbledon Re-Lived 1997 - Martina Hingis: Sixteen, Sassy, Sensational

The Tennis Podcast

57:08 min | 8 months ago

Wimbledon Re-Lived 1997 - Martina Hingis: Sixteen, Sassy, Sensational

"Hi! This is Marion Bartoli. Mats Wilander. This is Mary Carillo I'm rowing. I'm like I'm Andy, Murray this is Yannick. Noah and you're listening to the tennis podcast. Hello, folks and welcome to to Middle Sunday of Wimbledon or what would have been middle Sunday with molden possibly one that they would have been playing on given the. Whether in London this week has been utterly ropy. Resumes Its middle Sunday of Wimbledon relived courtesy of the tennis podcast the. Insatiable desire for podcasting if David Law how're you doing David. Some would say that it's still should be middle Sunday. Allow us here we are. And and I'm delighted that actually. Partly because we've just been getting to watch another player that we love to watch. Who was going to be the feature of this one but also? Quite, talking to ut really. Can't get enough of it literally how you doing Matt sleep-deprived. I'm not allowed to be sort of snooty about doing it now. After is lovely words. No, seriously, it's great. And well, thank you convincing that convincing. We are in the territory now where you were alive, he's alive, everyone. It's nineteen ninety-seven. Do you remember what you were doing in nineteen, ninety-seven, seven, learning to walk first words. I took ages to learn to walk. I developed a very good shuffled technique, which wo through all my shorts and trousers apparently, and didn't learn to walk until I was about to I think. I think that's called cruel thing. No, no. I was I was on my bum. What was your first word? Well. This has been a good segment David. David, what were you up to in nine, hundred ninety seven? I developed quite a good shuffling techniques. To move on for the Bum Shuffling Technique David Help me out here. Of Shuffling from pub to pub I'd got curtains hairstyle. Still, hanging onto the hugh grant years at this point being for good three and a half years and Yeah, it was. It was when I finished university three as a free university, having had the time. I'm alive and suddenly realize realizing. It ends. Now do I Day And Yeah so I was I was kinda between positions. Let's just say that this is about the time. The moved to the Devon Countryside's did a journalism. Course and lift with a man had a suit collection. Well as call. That's Yes, basically as I lived. I lived on a farm and one of my housemates had a summarize sword collection in his room which when he brought it in I. I was I made me a little bit. Better but I do remember I watched him watched the Pat Rafter Greg. Brzezinski US Open singles final. In a pub and managed to get them to convince them to stay open to let me watch it. He's hosting. Lock INS fakes, nine, hundred, Ninety, seven, a rock and roll near the David Law as as you given the game away, there was. It was the Greg's. Highest high reaching the US Open final in early September, if that year losing out to Pat Rafter because it was just days after Princess, Diana died in a car crash just days after. Mother it I. That was both as events me hugely memorable the in September. August September of Nineteen, ninety seven. Year that the NASA Pathfinder landed on Mars Hong Kong was returned to Chinese rule the Kyoto Protocol. Agreed by one hundred and fifty countries. The Lion King debuted on Broadway. That's got billing on my list ahead of Tony. Blair becoming British Prime Minister. Dolly the sheep was successfully cloned in the UK that was a big one Harry Potter and the philosopher's stone was published. Alexander's Vera of enemy soccer were born the biggest selling single. If the year with candle in the Wind Diana, version obviously and titanic. The film was released which also three times at the cinema. Oh, see I was expecting some very sarcastic remark about the titanic, particularly when I was Gonna say how much I enjoyed three times at the cinema, and then I preordered the video. And collected collected at midnight on the Davis release a very very big surprise to me. yeah, but I was like eleven. Say WHO'S AK? I'd like to think I wouldn't do that now. But you wouldn't. Let's just say enjoyed it very much. I skated to the music ahead. Address made which had the you know the necklace? The heart of the ocean necklace encrusted onto the neckline of the dress. It was really cool time in the life of Catherine Whitaker. It was cool time non ironically in the life of Martina Hingis. She was only a few years older than me ridiculously, but she was having one. If the all time, great tennis seasons are. Really isn't an overstatement. I didn't think I mean. It's a hugely underrated onto about Tennessee's one of one of the very very best. Yeah, when you just look at the fact that. She didn't lose tennis match until the French Open final and I mean that's absurd, isn't it? Really that's something Novak, which almost did in two thousand eleven and remember how much we talked about that. Run a forty plus wins in a row and he lost in the semifinals. She she beat everybody, and she was in a really really strong era. Okay, some of the players like Venus and Serena Williams were still to come into their own Serena hadn't started yet, but Venus which was just coming along, but she. You're talking about the tail, end of Monica Seller of Steffi Graf. They were still still significant figures Lindsay Davenport was around. There were so many good players in that era, and she was utterly dominance for the first six months of it. Yeah, I mean just to put a bit more meat on the bone. She won her first thirty eight matches of the season. I six tournaments. And in that time the foul horse twice. She. During the Australian Open. Named magic girl and still won the tournament without dropping a set I love the on her off days. She's just. Riding a horse on ranch somewhere that junior grand slam. And, then was doing it again in eighth pro when she suffered a slight tear of her Stereo cruciate ligament in her left knee, which meant the shelter withdraw from a load of? Events building up to the French Open and that. You know she was the cook in that French Open, and that was perhaps one of the reasons why she didn't win the final against. Either Molly and that French Open final. Loss was the only Grand Slam Mac. She would lose that season, and in fact it was the grand actually would lose until the following year's French Open defended her Australian Open title at the start of nine, hundred, Ninety, eight, just just incredible dominance in the biggest events and PS. She was sixteen. Sixteen. And it wasn't even particularly out of the Blue It'd been coming for a couple of years before she resort, she'd been setting sort of youngest ever records for for several years I. think she was the youngest ever. Junior grand. Slam champion twelve years old, not even a teenager. Twelve I mean. Off My share when I read that yesterday. And then she became the youngest grand slam champion ever in any discipline Wimbledon in one, thousand, nine, hundred six, when she won the doubles with Helena Sukova aged fifteen years and two hundred eighty two days. Do you, remember this year, David. I mean obviously remember one, thousand, nine, hundred, ninety seven that goes without saying, but do you remember this year for for Martina Hingis in the achievements? And how the? Tennis! World reacted to her at the time. Vividly I think partly because I was just such a huge fan of her of watching her play tennis. I thought she was just a joy to if I. IF I could go back and watch. Any player watching pass matches just just for the sake of watching the tennis. She would be probably in the top five of all players just because she just gives you these me as. Joy To what somebody go out in the way she did. Using. This clever guy, making making look absurdly easy and just defusing powerful players games, and but as it was going along. The. It was just assumed she would win. It was it was Martina Navratilova. Like or Chris Avid like it was. It was those sorts of winning streaks. She was putting together. She made the game. Look absurd lease and. I thought she would dominate for many many years to come. As a big shock that she didn't, it was a seems that she would win by one more so than herself. Martina Hingis quotes. Could Nineteen ninety-seven the gift that keeps on giving? They I mean just relentlessly brilliant. Come on, hit us with Montaigne quite well. She took up. She defeated Monica, Seles six, two, six, one in eight become the youngest ever world number one and She said why should I be worried about the future right now? Almost everything is perfect. As she felt unbeatable, Hingis, said well I am. And An and there's also the famous one where around that time, just having this so-called rivalry with an iconic over, and it's the one you know what you think of your rivalry with her. And she said what rivalry I win all the matches. None of these statements off factually inaccurate. They it's. Is this a Swiss thing to do you know? Federal does this and as always done? This doesn't any he gets away with it more than. More I mean I didn't maybe Monte anxious to get away with at the time, but she. Reputation as being. An arrogant Brat, didn't she? But maybe maybe this is what they're teaching. The kids in Switzerland's. Of any sort of modesty of full smarter state it's just. This is just how I see it I. I mean my personal favorite I. Think is the fact that this this was all taking place when tiger woods was was breaking through and winning his first masters, and and she was having a similar kind of season and she was getting. I guess she was getting compared to him, and she said it's all the time tiger. Woods Tiger Woods. I'm better than he is I've been on top longer and I am younger. I mean again at the time. Though those statements are not factually inaccurate. They have aged while. She. She is indeed younger than torture. Seriously what did take away was done in ninety-seven. Match when away from the Grand Slam? Let's forget no, I mean tiger. Woods won the masters by twelve strokes and. Forty four million people watching golf, and there was the symbolic black man winning the masters, this kind of elitist placing golf. Yeah, but he he older matte. All all of that is insignificant, compared to the fact that he was. Well I mean. In one thousand, nine, hundred seven. Maybe hinges did win more but. Yeah I mean tiger. Woods was revolutionizing the sport and hanging. Is I'm just better. than. The. which is less possible to objectively? That one but I mean. Tiger Woods obviously went onto, have the sustained success and the consistency and. Martina Hingis didn't and I. Wonder If if I'm not sure how go F- literate. You were at the time David Bit. If he'd been, he'd been asked at the time, he's going to have the most sustained career out to the to what you might have thought we'll see much given. It's difficult to say because I. Do I remember what in that Masters Woods? One and it was. People don't win. Major Championships by twelve shots certainly. When they're just starting, I it just doesn't happen. And he would, he was leaving fields behind the years, although that particular essential memory went to the open and didn't didn't fare very well that particularly. But anyway. What would have thought like? I thought Martina Hingis would dominate the sport for years to come there was she was so young to be sixteen seventeen, already playing at that level, and just frankly taking the mick out of opponent, she was making opponents. Look silly. She was that good. The the idea, she wouldn't win Wimbledon again after ninety-seven would have seemed absolutely ridiculous to me at least, and that's why I never really know. How to talk about Martina, Hingis and away as well. I think she an interesting case. He's kind of a little bit of an island because you wouldn't call her. Probably a cautionary tale, because she didn't to go off the rials or have the struggles that other young talents had and yet she didn't have this sustained career, either. She sort of she sort of sits in her own little place you know, and and she's also got these three distinct phases of her career when she had a couple of comebacks, but I think when you go back to this area that we're talking about late nineties early noughties. She was just this confluence of talent, aptitude and achievement, and she stood out for all of those reasons. and. She was a crazy crazy perfectionist wasn't sharing in the final. We've just shit that Wimbledon. One thousand nine hundred, in fact, all of the the Multi Martina Hingis much is that we've we've relived she. She does a petulant racket bounce at. What is essentially a forced error because she's annoyed that she didn't make it and produce a perfect winner from an impossible position, she is so good at tennis and so aware of how good she it tennis. Anything below perfection seems to disgust her. Which is amazing here she does give the most wonderful reactions that have howling time to even just raises of eyebrows and just sort of. Can we play another sport now? Winning this one so easily you're right, and and actually to me watching. It didn't advertise may I loved just loved watching at the time her ability particularly with backhand. Just put it on any part of the core that she so chose it was just she was easy. For what a skill to I mean I don't even I never even thought that about federal the. That I thought. This sports too easy for him. He had incredible skill set, but AENGUS was the nonchalance would which he would do it all and it wound people up I mean she was? She was almost kind of mocking opponents with with how easily she was based in them. She was the top seed at Wimbledon that year as Matt said having taken over the the number, one spot in March of ninety-seven Monica, Seles was the second seat, cheered lost in the third round to sandrine, tested and Yana Nevada was the third seed, and of course. The final was between Hingis and Nevada. Can you remember David first and third seeds but of Nevada having? reached. A Wimbledon final before with the fall greater experience, I think she was twenty seven. At that time he was the favorite going in wh-what odds with bud. Collins told us that they each had. I mean he would have been a comfortable favors. She was the best player in the world by FAW and just making mincemeat out of the role. People hadn't forgotten Novotna's struggle. She was the sentimental favorite. I mean people wanted Novotna to win no question about it and when she wins the first set six two. It really does look on because he has been out of sorts in that first set. But. She just controls things if she's playing well, even though Novotna went up a break in the third set. I didn't see coming radio I. Remember watching the match and I we expected. Hingis to just decode even grass court problems that Nevada Post. Because Higgins had such poise balanced time, she had time on every shot. It all seems so straightforward to. It's kind of composure. When behind to know that her game will eventually. Unlock. What she needs to win the match and then and then kind of patience when she's ahead to not. To get ahead of yourself to not rush to the finish line just to play her game and trust a game and she's she's grinning throughout the whole thing like even as you said even when she's making arrows kind of like sh, she might pet. We've bounced her racket a little bit, but she's also got this grin on her face like it's one big game to one big sort of. Ninety minutes of fun. It's the face it says something eating. I'm playing different sports to the one that you're playing. Even at the off to the coin, toss the photo. They've taken it the net I mean on. is sort of coulda a shy smile on her face. Which is nice to see after what happened in ninety-three now that she's. Looking relaxed enough to enjoy the moment, but Martina Hingis. Accepted a marriage proposal or something she is is toothy. Grid! And I she's she should be. She should be bundle of nerve, shouldn't she? May maybe she was and she was just? Had A great polka face, but The thing is in her quotes that we read in this so many of them, the feeling of of all of it around that time is. What have I got to be nervous about? I'm winning all the time. It's a winning easily, so I mean I'm sixteen seventeen. What's the problem? There wasn't one kiss. Despite losing that I set six, says she. She just took control of the match completely in that second sir. What really struck me? Watching the highlights we've just watched. Is How often Yana Novotna? WHO's this incredible athlete getting to the net quickly and covering it quickly? How often Nevada was hitting a half Ali, when she would have preferred to have been hitting. A volley because Hindus, just dipping that return perfectly. Her feet every single time enforcing Nevada to hit up her returns with just. So pinpoint accurate aengus it was. Something to behold really. Yeah and I. Think as we mentioned yesterday it did does sound like Nevada was carrying a little bit of an injury in that match, and maybe maybe that was slightly preventing her from. Perhaps getting into the net is she would like but what? What struck me is how? How thoughtful Novotna tennis was by the end, because she's struggling to keep up in a way with this is just looking so relaxed calmed down the other end of the core and this this this just this such a big difference in demeanor. Novotna's sort of struggling to come through every service game and Hingis is just just kind of cruising by the end. Nevada does actually go break-up in the deciding set. She's she's to love up in that certain and angus breaks immediately back in I mean. She seemed to have incredible poison. Self belief, no matter what position she was in school, Board, wise. But, The just no nitrates of panic whatsoever at every stage, even breakdown in the deciding set. Martina, Hingis is thinking well. Obviously. I'm still going to win this. I! Believe her I mean obviously. I believe a watching it knowing knowing the result, but at the time. I can't imagine that I wouldn't have been swept up by that incredible self-assurance. I'll say it really divided people though I. Don't think she was that popular with the viewing public. Really it was. It was a bit too self, the short for most people I think can a little bit too cocky huge. Who'd you think you are? Don't make fun of the game funnier opponents, and she was doing it purposefully to try to be disrespectful. I think she just found the sport. Absurdly easy and. So the She's just going to behave and she's so young. You've gotTa Remember H. How young she is! I might. God, she's sixteen. You are a brat at that age at the time. I think and everybody's got a better that in them. And she was doing out there in front of millions. She ended nicknamed the Swiss Miss didn't she which I. Think. I felt uncomfortable with at the time I certainly feel uncomfortable with it. With it now. But it was completely. It was completely normal to to refer to that way, wasn't it? Was that was just? It's just a lack. It's just a lazy rhyming reference points, isn't it? And Yeah I'm I'm quite sure I used it as well just because people did but. Yeah I mean I, look back on a year now with. With great kind of. Fundus because I really enjoyed it at the time and I. Love Watching the tennis. I do feel that We overlook the fact that she was one match away from something that we would surely all remember differently now if she won that match against my only. I mean that doesn't necessarily mean she to gone on one. The other two because pressure may have told etc, but. There's only graph in the in the open-air. Who's done it up? If she had done it. Surely that would have made a difference. Let's from Lindsey, Davenport, now somebody. ended up becoming a really great rival hinges for a few years there and they're lovely contrast to styles. Because of import had a really interesting perspective when I spoke to a few weeks ago about. His game and and How underrated that season once in one, thousand, nine, hundred seven, the game was shifting and she was such A. So amazing to say like. NOPE, you could be bigger than me. You could be stronger than me could hit harder than me but I've got this amazing feel I have the ability to take balls wherever I want them in the court and put them wherever I want them her year ninety seven is one of the all time greats it would have gone would have been even greater year if she hadn't fallen off, her horse needed knee surgery before the French I think she easily would have won that. French Open I'm still got to the final one. The other three majors It's kind of one of the more underrated seasons in my opinion on the. The T. Tour. She was so good she was so young at that time. She seemed to be handling everything pretty well, and her mom was was was helping her out I. Think Martina may be got caught up a little bit in in the attention when some of the other players start breaking through in the next couple of years of Cornucopia and Williams and all of that of where do I fit in now? She definitely wanted to be alpha tug and I think that was an adjustment for her. When then Venus and Serena started kind of breaking through, and then started really winning majors and kind of cemented their place at the top of women's tennis. It blows my mind that she was doing something as high risk as horse writing I know. She absolutely loves horses and Equestrian. I know that but. Tennis, players don't do activities like that during my career because they can't invalidates the their insurance doesn't I mean I saw Is quite s to refer to them like this high-value commodities, tennis players, they are insured against major career-threatening injury, but it doesn't cover you for a believe. It doesn't usually cover for skiing I remember when Tim Henman retired. And he was asked, he was mostly came forward to about retirement. He says I can ski. Now haven't been able to ski for the Post. Fifteen years and Martina Hingis the most. Of the most high value. Commodities in the sport. Is just. Putting all at risk to get a moose writing. I think it tells you two things one. Is that she? It's an indication of her age that she just was having to. Faced with having to give things up. She felt she should be allowed to do somebody well, obviously very wealthy now. All these options and she's at an age where she wants to do this stuff and. Okay I'm going to do anyway and I think that that's where the case she didn't have. The burn out, and the real problems of a caveat implies like that but I think she was conflicted in as as there's so much life, there's so much out there. The Sandwich I wanted to do I'm just going to do it anyway. That was part of it. The other thing is she said in an interview. I watched this morning. I felt invincible. And I don't think she thought she could come off the whole because probably thinks she's an absolutely world class force rider as well and nothing's going wrong so far. So why would she think wrong now? Well, it did happen twice a year they. Yeah! It's one thing to think not the first time. Can you remember the key? Can you imagine the cool going into a rage and I've done it again. This time bad. So. Yeah, I mean undeniably one of the all-time great seasons and everybody's seeming given her age that that she will she will. Is it much of an overstatement to say that she will dominate tennis for for many years to come at this point? The Williams sisters are there on that. Certainly Venus is is is emerging. People are aware of them as she play, she played Venus. Williams in the US Open final, and that was Venus's I ever use open. It was a fairly one sided match and. I remember watching it There was an incredible amount of hype about Venus but. It was one of those where those that follow in the second year round, just thinking well. Yeah, but he is the best better, plaza certainly right now and I just did not expect the turnaround the followed and then. She, she remained a factor. Did did hangers but? I didn't expect her to lose her position of dominance the way she did. Yes, she won the Australian Open that followed as well but I. I really thought that was going to go on for many years, and it's. It's notable also that she was playing doubles and she she won the calendar year slam in doubles in one, thousand, nine, hundred as well so. You know maybe there was a kind of burnouts. Strikes me that it was. kind of combination of things I think one was as Lindsay Davenport said their. Players like the Williams sisters emerging and Davenport getting better and. Not exactly the game overtaking her, but plays slightly figuring her out slightly realizing how to harness what they had in their games to beat her. Also I think the. French Open final that we covered in a on gas relived against Steffi. Graf is really big turning point in English his career where she after that she became far less secure in the big matches. She still reached a lot of Grand Slam finals this ninety seven season, but she lost most of them, and I think that ninety nine French Open where she didn't convert her her lead against Steffi. Steffi Graf ended up. Having quite a big tall and people realize that there was a weakness that they could chip away at and eventually injuries I mean. She had all sorts of injuries on her ankles and I. Think hails were badly inflamed I. think that was the one that eventually took out of the game in two thousand and two, so there was a sort of numerous factors just. Converging in meaning that she gradually kind of fat away, and never never became the fully dominant force that people thought she would. Did you lack Grit David? It all come so easily to her. It seemed like she was playing tennis on a on a different plane to every every videos, she she'd perhaps never had to dig deep a certain other players had to to achieve their success, and it's all going swimmingly, and then a real challenge comes along, not just in the form of the Williams sisters that were that were others, as well means Devonport became a real real challenge de her others, but. It is most embodied by the Williams sisters that that shift and changing if the God and she didn't adapt, did she? She didn't dig. She didn't adopt. She didn't change she. She faded. And I know that's really hard. Take on it all but. When it got read when the going got really really tough, she she faded. Think she I do think she loved winning. as you would expect, but I don't think she could really handle it when she wasn't winning that much and to go away and have to reassess. Regroup and come back and show that kind of resilience. She did come back, but yeah I think it. At any? She was off the player when she was getting some losses. Because I think that that knocked self perception. And probably reduced. How effective she was I think that could sound like A. Harsh assessment but I do think it's exactly what happened. I was reading some quotes from. From her mother, Melanie Molotov who said. She does only what she has to get by. She's not lazy, but she only works as long as it's fun, and it's not hurting and Chris ever talked about. Where's the need insider to? Go back and prove that she's better than these players emerging. And Oversee Chris ever. Would would know about that because she she did have that need inside. She did reinvent her game to to get the rivalry against never over back on the back on level terms in the in the latter half of that career, so I think that's exactly what happened I think she was bouncing from tournament to tournament when she was sixteen seventeen. Not really thinking about it kind of kind of imagining that it might go on forever, and then the soon as there was a little bit of a roadblock. She maybe didn't quite have that determination that that was required. And she possibly underestimated the the Williams sisters when they were when they were first emerging onto the tour, and and frankly some of the the comments she made about the more hugely uncomfortable on Ami, not I I'd like to think that they were. Somewhat uncomfortable at the time and Cetinje as time has passed tickly now they feel. Incredibly uncomfortable and I'd like to think that she would. She would not stunned by a lot of them, but. With the emergence of the Williams sisters came A. Animal could. Confrontation I suppose between between Hindus and them Deny How did you perceive it at the time, David? How did you? Perceive her attitude towards the Williams sisters. I founded uncomfortable at the time, and I wasn't really sure why. I think now with the years that have passed a an understanding much more about unconscious racism. I feel a lot more understanding of and it wasn't Jay I'm not pointing fingers at Martina Hingis here. I think we were all or many of us were guilty of this. and. Kind of pitching these plans against each other grouping. Venus and Serena, Williams as the Williams sisters. The gate crashes. The people have come along from the outside and. I do feel really uncomfortable with that now. When I think of it in those terms, but that's kind of how it was built. And Hingis did nothing really to dissuade the story from being that. But I think generally she was just. She was just pissed off that she wasn't the best in the world anymore really and that she wasn't just having her own way at every turn. And Yeah I. Dare, say she. She probably would feel a bit embarrassed I hope she would feel uncomfortable with some of the things that she was quoted as saying when she was still a young woman and I think her. Kind of desire to speak her mind Costa and she was talking about other players as well. There's that. The Golf sleep quote that she gave about Amara's Mo- saying that she's half a man when she just come out of the closet emily. Marasmus and I think I think they had a Wj mentor system and Chris was Martina Hingis Mental, and apparently after that after that quotes about about Meraz, Mo- ever rang Hingis and said look you need to. Admit that you've got that wrong. And Hingis said said no basically and ever said that got mad at and. Blame to. Being diplomatic or she wanted to do was kind of be honest and said what she felt. And think publicly she. She defended herself, but I think. As you said she was so young, and we probably do have to take that into consideration when we look back on these on these quotes in the context, in which they were given I mean they seem. They seem absolutely horrific now and they and they really. I think wouldn't stand up now, and they don't, and we can criticize them, but I also think the time the context is is important to note. She the only person she she to have sort of Generous things to say about the fellow plays. She seemed to have generous things to say about the time Yanna Novotna. She she said so many nice stuff about Nevada often that ninety-seven final. Didn't she said you? You deserve to win this title and I. Don't know whether she meant today. Oh all sort of generally you can, you can have another one another time when I'm when I may have read. This one Nevada with whom she won. Three of the four doubles Grand Slams that David mentioned in ninety eight I think they actually ended up having a falling out a year later when Higgins dropped as A. Doubles partner because I think she said something like Nevada's old and slow and Nevada fire back saying she's young and stupid. So descended for for a while. Definitely close and successful together she won she won several. Double slums with annacone covers well, didn't she's relationship obviously recovered from the rivalry? The matches comment I. My sense, a little bit was Hingis soil the attention that Kona Kai if a Golz. And a didn't like it and be kind of wanted to have her share and probably lights hanging out with corner cover for some of the attention That's how it came across. The time, and I think that that also was probably a distraction. From? I think she enjoyed the life, I think she enjoyed the city of the Razzmatazz went around all. And I'm not sure that helps her achieve as much as she could have done. David, you interviewed Martina Hingis back in January of twenty fourteen when she was inbetween. We're cooling phases two and three of her career, she she'd had her singles comeback. And we'll talk about that in a moment of bit, she was it was before she made her turn to the doubles. Cool on which she had great great success most notably with Sunday Mirror. And you covered a number of topics he started off by. Asking her about success she had such a young age and asking her why why? That was so special that people on on doing what she was doing at fifteen sixteen. Thinking mainly part of it is also okay. The game has gotten more physical it's. The technology is different but also because the girls they're not allowed to play as many tournaments which I totally disagree with this alleged ability rule because I think girls should be open a free roof at the age of sixteen. I was already two years on the tour. I mean I had some rules as well, but not as strict as they are. These days that the girls that are only free to play the full schedule from eighteen so I think you know they losing away two years of time and. It's hard to to pick it up when you're eighteen or twenty. When you need that experience and. So. That's why we see champions for older these days. Of course. The you retired for the first time at just twenty two. It seems extraordinary when a lot of players are starting to to make their name of that sort of age. Did you feel that you missed out at all by playing as young as young as you did now not at all, actually because I felt like I had a little bit after myself. Already at twenty two and I had still grapefruit. Scher bright future ahead of me and. I mean still of course there's years of tennis and I mean headed a little comeback in which I'm still very proud of and I don't know it's I think sometimes also the priorities change, and it just I played. Juniors already when I was like yeah, twelve and thirteen so I had that experience and I. It was a different time i. believe as well because you know playing. Against, Steffi Graf Rancho Sanchez at that time. who were like ten years older than me? They all started the young as well so I wasn't the only one at that time, but Yeah. They had long careers I had shorter one, but still you know the ten year career is not like. Only, one one hit wonder. You, wouldn't you? I totally fifteen years ago. I mean not not long after that. You were playing against Serena Williams. Who is still dominating the tennis circuit today? That is extraordinary, isn't it? it is definitely but. It also tells you know how. Great assistance. We're when when they played. You know like in two thousand one and two and they were. At their best so and now still it's amazing, but she's always been very smart about their schedule. She never played as many tournaments I mean they had a lot of breaks and. I mean injury here and there, but they were very smart about it and I think that's why she's played. Like half of the matches at that time that I've played with the devils and everything play mixed doubles so maybe the age of twenty five. When I had my comeback, she only played like half of the dementia. The tournaments that I did so. She still had like the five years ahead of me. So that's pretty interesting. Implication there is that she she possibly suffered from from a playing, and yet she is adamantly opposed to the age eligibility rule, which is in place to to prevent burnout if young players, so it's not necessarily a coherent view, but it is, it is an interesting one. I also think it's a bit of an excuse that she's giving herself and probably a bit of a diss of Venison Serena. It by comparison as if she signed, what if I had only played the match I applied. It's still being going today but look. She decided around sheduled with okay with management company with her mother, and as we say, she won the calendar year. Slam in doubles in ninety eight. She was playing singles and doubles all the time she played over ninety matches in one, thousand, nine, hundred and one I think she lost about six or eight matches in the whole year. And her success was just. Crystallized into this very short period of time, and I've often thought with other prodigies I was thinking about Wayne Rooney's career that he was never more the English football of that he was never more devastating than when he was seventeen years of age same with Michael. Owen and I'm not sure necessarily. Certain players have longevity in them. I don't know whether Hingis hand that in her mentally you talked about whether she whether it was grit, and now she made comebacks, but I just find it quite interesting that it's almost like she. She turned her life upside down. To what most people have most people have childhood, Fun and Games, and then get serious and become something she was. Immediately, and then started to wish she could ride horses and do fun things and went and did them at the age of twenty two and then got bored. On say I think and and that's when comeback starts into in two thousand and six and I covered that and for the first month, or so it was joyous. I remember her. Her Australian Open Comeback. She beat Venus of. Ever in the first round, who was seated and absolutely took her apart, and it was just rolling back the years, glorious tenants, but She was never as good as she was before and yes, she found it difficult. I think to leave the sport. And yet she also couldn't hack it anymore. So. She ended up leaving the sport three times. Yes she had three three separate retirements will. We'll talk about each of these just in a minute, but let's I hear from Mary Carillo reflecting on well, Martina Hingis his career generally, but first of all on that Wimbledon triumph in nineteen ninety-seven. Matter a quote in his research from Hingis saying she hated Gross. That obviously coming before she ended up winning the title, his Mary Reflecting on why Hanks's game worked on the grass. People think that you've got to the overpowering to win, Wimbledon. When you don't you just have to know how to use that surface to your to your benefit, and he guests was an absolute master in singles and doubles on the grass. I mean it that moment in ninety-seven is a sixteen year old looking looking like she was playing on a on a different plane to everybody else. If you told people then, she's not going to win. Another one of these, it would have been scarcely scarcely believable. But again I think at a certain point. Power the. Racket technology string technology? All that stuff worked against her and she had a hard time. Holding her serve after awhile because people were just giving it the thumb. And at once like if you're once that once, somebody knows what to do against you even if you're great when somebody has a game plan. It's going to kind of shake you. It's like with raw with Ross and Roger. Roger knew that rough knew what to do. He knew it. She's a I mean I. I obviously wasn't involved in tennis at the time I. Don't I didn't know her. She seems like somebody that that dealt with being a young champion. May Be better than than some others better than. Better than maybe even as kind of normal because that's not a normal situation, isn't it? Is it being a sixteen year old major champion? She never seemed to be in over her head, did she? Never was wide, eyed, and kind of how how did I get here? I think she fully expected to get her. She was a very accomplished junior. Her Mom was clearly a very fine coach and tactician No, she wasn't. She wasn't wide. She. She pretty much knew how good she was and end. At how complete she in again she had to rid. She knew how to rub everyone of brain cells together in a match. She really did again at a certain point. You know power overwhelmed her, but. Before, that boy this, she was a pleasure to watch. She could figure out she's I. Maybe I can't win the point here, but three shots from now. I, see a winner. and. It's in that that corner over there pulling their wide, you could just. It was fun watching her mind were you can almost watch? You know really taking the court measuring the court and then taking it bit by bit. and forcing someone into a compromising position I truly enjoyed. I enjoyed hanks's game. If it's nice and tight and again great clarity. So you. Samari, the sort of fading. If if multinational, this is a a major force in the game was was more about other people changing the game, and and and making it more physical and power based. And I'm sure the reality is that it's it's that along with a load of other factors along with props. Monte Hingis not quite being mentally cut out for the challenge of if all the players but. Yeah, she she retired for the for the first time in two thousand three age, just twenty two. She was out to the game then for three years, she returned in two thousand six. She did get back to the top ten. This is the Comeback David you were talking about really really relishing in, and she played the finals that year, but the best results in a slam was was the quarter-finals. And then a cool. She ended up. Failing a drugs test testing positive for cocaine, and denouncing her her second retirement in November two thousand seven, and then it was a long gap of six years before turning as as a doubles player and having tremendous success in the doubles before I'm. Retiring I think once and for all. I mean never say never, but we. We think it's done and dusted. Couple years ago I. Mean is quite a career, isn't it? Took about highs and lows. Yeah. I haven't even mentioned a brief for into strictly come dancing the. Speaking of news. I think at that kind of. Even that fact sums up the challenges she faced and a lot of players who become massive stars, and have all the success so young face well. What do I do next and she? She retired twice. Did other things inevitably found out. She wasn't that good at a lot of them because I mean, how can you be the best to everything and I think that that is probably. Pretty shock to the system for her to find out. Oh I'm not brilliant at this compared to everybody else and. She just gets bored. And then tennis comes back into the equation. Sudden issues the best of that again. Oh well, she's one of the best and in doubles. It was I think it went well with past because I think she's a pretty gregarious current, so she likes to have a chance and to share it with somebody else. He was very successful in both doubles and mixed doubles and yes, she was the best asset I mean. She's got to be. One of the best doubles blinds. We've ever seen really I would say. But the strictly thing. She was terrible. She said he had the first round, and and there were a number of reality shows she did where you could see. Yeah, I mean it's money, but she doesn't need the money, so she doing it for. She was a rough, rough hand getting the RUMBA. But it, so yes, she was voted off strictly come dancing in the UK in two thousand nine and week when she does a waltz, and it's possible it's possible. This is a gentle, yes, and then week to she gets from which is very very difficult to sort of just I mean it just looks like a walking walking about with really sway hips. One is all about chemistry, isn't there? To the apartment, the best thing I mean blessed Matthew Cutler partner is doing his best to pretend. They the best thing about it is. She's these wooden hips, but she got this look on her face. That says yeah. I'm good at this. This is going really well, and then the judges telera otherwise on our faces like. She really wasn't expecting it. Mattie Cutler looks more like he potentially was expecting that feedback. And then she gets voted off which I don't think she was. Voted off in week. One bad I feel like that's a tough hand bit. She definitely wasn't very good at it and cheat if money didn't enjoy being not very good at it. That's some sums up. The challenge I've seen it with a lot of other people John McEnroe's jokes. When I play Music Live Music Guitar it ruins, good elbows at tennis. I in my mind I'm greater this because that's what I WANNA BE I. WanNa be great at everything that I. do just like I was at tennis when he wasn't even rubbish. Say to him. You know just just leave the music to me, Chon? The rocks ing. He's going to set list of three songs as One of them's Gloria as. Its glory days it satisfaction, and it's Johnny be good. Yeah? Yeah. honky tall occas-, occasionally Honky tonk woman. If. He's having a real like rolling stones. But anyway. Somebody wants. Is John McCain or any good at music and I heard somebody say he's in. He doesn't as into these. Comments. Give become dancing to the really bad ones, yeah! She still the youngest open Air Wimbledon champion. Is that likely to remain? The took him about Martina Hingis now not John McEnroe Is that likely to remain the case full the foreseeable future? Yes old coca Gulf. The is. There wasn't a pandemic around she's. Had to win it this year kickoff to I. Don't think that was impossible for coca golf to win a slam this year. I. Bet On it, but I think she was improving at such a rate at the end of last year. I think it's possible. and. She lost to the eventual champion in Australia this year and pushed her to three cents But, no I think all the trends going away from. Youngest ever records being broken the ones that are being broken oldest ever at the moment. I think they would have to be like. We were talking about with Boris Becker. There's going to have to be some massive. Switch in in tennis for these youngest ever records to be broken yet. Lottie DOD is the only. The only younger women champion, but that was that was in the nineteenth. Century! And somebody younger than twelve Windsor Genius Flom then. I want to be here to see it. Because just that's ridiculous. You've got to be a teenager at least making us feel bad. So. That's Martina Hingis the youngest ever Wimbledon champion in the era and Likely to. To. Hold that record for for a long time to come, it's. It's an unorthodox career. She had an. It's kind of difficult was going to ask you to. To to some per legacy or to sum up by both, remember her, but I think that's potentially almost impossible. Because as you say, she doesn't quite fit. Into a category, So said let's just remember her for her SAS. And leave it at that which leaves me only other than saying hello to Gerald a lovely lovely mascot cat. To us about where we're heading tomorrow, we are going to two thousand one tomorrow the first of two matches we're doing from two thousand and one over the next couple of shows and into the fourth round of the men's tournament. Pete, Sampras is the. Reigning champion the full time defending champion, and he plays Roach Ephedra in the fourth round, and that be the only ever meeting between those two greats. And it's not the nineties, but David still looks like he's about to explode with unanticipated election. So pumped. Can we watch it now. He. Can I mean again have some lunch, thanks, company and FIA Chitchat and thank you for listening and we'll see tomorrow.

Martina Hingis Tennis David Serena Williams French Open Lindsay Davenport Nevada Monte Hingis Chris Avid US Mary Carillo Hingis UK Martina Steffi Graf golf Matt David Law Mats Wilander Marion Bartoli
194: Henge

Robot or Not?

04:58 min | 4 months ago

194: Henge

"The. I'm. John I got some interesting news. About. Stonehenge not being. A true hinge. According to Wikipedia. because. Okay. Follow me here. Hinge is a word that is now used to describe stone circles with some very particular characteristics. It it the H- the name hinge comes from Stonehenge it means Oh, it's a hinge like stonehenge and I've been one of these in in in England. Stone circle kind of big. Dig Around and all that. But the thing that's mind blowing is since then the word hinge has has had a very specific definition that apparently. Does. Not include Stonehenge I'm troubled by this I'm troubled by this I'm also troubled by the fact that some people have pointed out the original marathon is no longer considered a marathon because the distance has been defined in a very specific way and the distance of marathon is greater than the distance of the original marathon. So I don't know if you have any thoughts about this sort of drift but I find it very disturbing that stonehenge is not a true hinge, the word hinge from stonehenge and that the marathon is not a marathon because it's not long enough. I think the original they're still still really good game. I agree have you seen that video? It's amazing. Anyway. I have something actions to the stonehenge thing because they're like, oh, well, we call them hinges. We call things gate after Watergate right. By Watergate Hotel or whatever. Has. A name related to water being gated that you know we can trace that backwards and make some sense Stonehenge I get the stone part but hinge obviously had some meaning before it was before stone was stuck in the front of it. And that's what a hinges by saying that Oh the things we define his hinges we took that from stonehenge like gate was taken from orbit but. All right. Then had hinge get in Stonehenge. What did it mean before? Then what the hell does hinging meant apparently sustained stone stone and then hinge. But I is. There's there's some complication here. So they hinge cliff is a precipice. So the idea is that it's a it's a hinge because the stone. Hinges on the upright stones they're like the way that they're done or it also could mean to hang. So there is a word that refers to how the stones are hang but what's happened is a new phrase called a hinge. That is taken out of Stonehenge is not is not based on the ancient word, but is literally just based on Oh it's like stonehenge. This is another hinge. This is like saying, yeah, this is like Watergate and the old gate meaning has gone and it's just yet but this is just blink gate robot or not, but the with explanation of the. Hinge I think what it's saying is that stonehenge was called stonehenge because he was hinge ish because there are stones that are hinged on each other and Hingis from Hinge Jamie, you can trace it all backwards now to go forward, you say, okay because there was this very famous and prominent in people's minds called stonehenge whenever we see stones in a circle, we pull hint from there and you're like I was just pulling. It from there I wasn't saying it's because the stones are hinged on each other and the reason we call her that is because Stonehenge is well known and this is like Stonehenge but really the line doesn't disconnect where you say it disconnects just because that's where you got it from a continuous line of words that come from other words and a big long chain, and that's how it works. You arbitrarily decide we took. This from stonehenge. But we decided as a former of hinge that doesn't include. Stonehenge isn't that weird? Not Weird at all because how the hell did stonehenge get it it goes back farther than where you decided the cutoff point is an even though that's the super famous even though that's where you took the name from when you name the thing, the history of that word goes back farther and choosing to pull it from. There and define a different definition and that's fine. Just like marathon bigger long race, and then you formally defining what a marathon is. Later you took it from that original real long race. But isn't it weird when you formally defined that you picked a thing that fit more with modern practices and not thing you pulled on not that weird not that weird at all I have no problem with either one of these things. Word Meanings change over time the ten continuous line going backwards and getting super weird and having twists and turns, and you cannot choose an arbitrary point at and look forward there and decide that it's super weird because it's not or as one of our listeners said, you understand exactly how many conversations in academia or just is a hotdog sandwich for people with crushing? Student Debt Yep. Water not.

Stonehenge Watergate Hotel John I Wikipedia. England Hingis
Wimbledon Re-Lived 1993-98: The Jana Novotna Story

The Tennis Podcast

1:02:35 hr | 8 months ago

Wimbledon Re-Lived 1993-98: The Jana Novotna Story

"Hi! This is Marion Bartoli Mats Wilander. This is Mary. Carillo I'm stunned rowing I'm Lleyton Hewitt I'm Andy Murray. This is Yannick. Noah and you're listening to the tennis podcast. Hello folks, and welcome again to the tennis podcast episode. Six of tennis, relived Happy Independence Day to our American listeners. It is the fourth of July. I mean by the time and load of you listening to this, it will no longer be the fourth of July. Say I had a good one If you're listening to post July the fourth twenty twenty. You might be listening to this aways into the future because we're hoping. These tennis relived podcast that with we're making in and loving. Making Boo will stand the test of time. I think they're the first podcast. I don't feel touchy about recommending that people go back and listen to anything else in our archive just just give it a swerve, but these I hope we'll. We'll stay in the volt for a long time and today feels like a really big one because we're going to be. Telling the Yana, Novotna story, so handke's at the ready. I've got mine ready here. David were you queuing at the pub at six? Am this morning like the the absolutely insane people? If Great Britain apparently were doing? Yes, because the pubs have reopened, it wasn't Catherine I'm not a pub. Six Am knowingly so anyone is normally no I'm not today. But I was using. Hanky because I was watching. I watched real of of the unavowed the story in Spicer two minutes, and that set me off, and then I listened to some of the audio we've got and that sent me off and Yeah, it's an incredibly emotional story. We're about to tell on it, but it's also. A wonderful story whereabouts tell it's just just one of the moments that is. Impossible to avoid when you're covering and reliving Wimbledon because Yanna Nevada was so important in so special to Sony people yeah, yeah very very well, said I mean it's it's it's. It's a put the. I've been. Relishing doing and also kind of dreading during because this anxiety about whether we were able to do it justice, but a we certainly put everything into that we can. We've got some great audio. From coach Hannah Mandlikova. She coached throughout her career pretty much in three all three of her Wimbledon finals. And Mary Carillo in Chris Clarry as well so. We're going to do our best to bring the story to Life Matt headdresses also opens today. You got a big decision to make about whether you stay committed to the Rockstar, look whether the reverts to your previous look. If any thoughts on one hundred percent reverting this is this is Nelson. Look, that should be stayed had very strong views. They has it has. You have posted posted the best of it. When I've you know when I've put product in my hair? Yeah, mets discovered him for an during in the pandemic takes me an extra two minutes in the morning to get ready when I want to look presentable into the product free version, which is kind of no Gallagher S. You've gone from Kevin Current in old gallagher in the space of three days. Actually think I mostly like Goran in the Ramona Fund. We were yesterday. Folks that is not how Matt expressed it first time around. What's up? From sent his message, saying go-round looks like me. which he did I actually hate going to the barber normally. Because of the small talk and General Awkwardness of the situation, but I'm actually really looking forward to my next next trip. This needs to go, but I wasn't. I wasn't looking forward to it enough to be that Nanako this morning. Then I think pe- might save us all from headdresses small talk. For the next well, the for years to come so every cloud everyone. Big Decision to make carrying this deposed. If your don't know why I'm letting you make the call, but we're covering a number of years on today's podcast. We'll be covering the nineteen ninety three final. Won by Steffi. Graf of voting had a full one forty fifteen lead in the deciding set, she was five points away from winning that title We'll be covering in a little bit. The nine, hundred, Ninety, seven, final, the Yunnan, his second, which she lost to Martina Hingis bit less so. We'll be doing separate podcast on on Martina Hingis and. Becoming the youngest ever Wimbledon, champion. She won the title and we'll also be covering of course it in great detail today. The crowning moment of Novotna's Griff finally lifting that Wimbledon title in one thousand, nine, hundred, eight, beating Nutley toes in the final so. Would you like to hear what happened in the world in nineteen ninety-three? In one, thousand, nine, hundred, ninety eight o both. Can I have ninety three. And Ninety eight plays concur come. Yes the listeners this shouting Gordon Wrong decision David's. You asked for it, so here goes. That was the cleanest decision making we've ever had normally normally. These things take a lot more time than that. They're asking the public. Well. ninety-three was a big year. It was the that dressing park was released. It was the year that MEATLOAF's are. Do Anything for Love was the best selling single. It was the dominant team. He identifies. Go beanie Margaritas loan, Stevens Ariana Grande. Day Harry Kane and friend of the poet Liam. Payne were born. These stuff he's ever been described as that. Need explaining. Is he going to sue us? We've got. It's in the archives votes. There's another one you can go back in the archives to listen to fifteen June and something anyway and Liam Payne of one direction fellow West from jobe and fan was on the podcast with me. Andy Murray and Jack Lotto Ega, and he broke twitter feed. It was adult time on on twitter for awhile that that was a scary moment. I arrest him into tweeting that he was on the podcast, and suddenly his one hundred million followers, or whatever he's got started tweeting us. We were getting tagged all of his insane marriage proposals, which was very. With. Glimpse into a strange world. It was. Dawson's sold the the first bagless hoover Ben Johnson westbound from athletics for Life Buckingham Palace welcome visitors in the summer for the first time Kim Campbell became the first female prime, Minister of Canada and of course in tennis terms. It was the that Monica. Seles was stabbed. In Germany, and sadly is one of the. Things that people about the the tennis year in Nineteen ninety-three, so it goes without saying that salish was was absent from Wimbledon. And and for that reason growth with the very very heavy favor I mean she would likely have been anyway. She was the two time defending champion. She'd one four Wimbledon. Overall. She was the top. She was expected to win that final against the number, eight seed and UVA, who but Collins in the broadcast? We watched the NBC's broadcast. Kept telling us with the thirty three to one outsider, according to English bookmakers prior to the tournament. I don't know whether American bookmakers had entirely different odds on your Nevada, but the British bookies had written thirty three to one before the tournament. Yeah, actually idle tonight. They do sports betting in America really do it. Certainly weigh more heavily regulated, and so generally we'd yeah yeah. He He really liked that line and I remember watching the match in coming into the final, and I knew a fair bit about young ended up, having because this was right in the the sweet spot of my fan of tennis, and when I'm just literally watching any tennis that exists. And to hell, whatever else in my life so I I do a lot about on Nevada, but at the same time graph was such a heavy favorite, and it felt like that, too. It didn't feel beforehand light that this would be much of a final. Just because graph was just dominating everybody really at that time, her having not got selfish to to contend with anymore, but the way that Nevada played that day. Day was majestic. It absolutely majestic the way she moved around attendance, call her intent and commitment to seven volley in slice and coming in, and then there were expressions that I've had people use that. She would sort of float around the court. She had this wonderful movement, and there's one moment in the NBC coverage where she leaps for FRA and everybody in the country bucks go, and then, but cullens goes bird will. Is a great image to summon up. The way felt that nothing is going to get past that day, and and she lost a very very tight. I sat on a tiebreak, but then just took over completely took care of a she was brilliant graph was Paul and it was very nearly a Bagel second-set. And she managed to get the one game. And then it just carried on in that vein throughout much of the third set until well, we know happened yet I think is really important to stress. How well Yana Novotna was playing that Wimbledon and in that final, because obviously the obviously, the story is what happens. As she as she collapses in that third set, but You know in the quarter-final. She beaten Sabatini six, four, six three, despite having six consecutive losses to her beforehand in the semi final, she beat Martina Navratilova despite a zero and five head to head record. She was playing the tennis of her life. She got into a second Grand Slam singles final, and yeah, as you said she was, she was majestic against Graf for much of that ninety three final. You know the LOB. She was coming up with the touch. The brushstrokes maneuvering the board around the court they called last kind of pure truce of volume women's tennis and She's so magnificent to watch and so good with that as well and graph didn't really have any onces until the final set. I didn't realize what an extraordinary athletes she was I mean. She might not have had quite the exquisite touch. The that Martina Navratilova had particularly perhaps on the four hundred volume. Certainly that was that was what came to let her down in the in the big moments, but Her athleticism with was Nevada esque potentially even. Nevada labor plus it was. It was extraordinary to see that combination of strength and grace in terms of her her movement and an net coverage because Steffi Graf was good this reading a passing shot I mean she was, she was digging incredible. Show a job of every now, and then just sneaking in a topspin backhand pausing show Cetinje back and pausing, shorten threatening them down the line, and an scooping her four hundred returns cross cross-court, dipping to the feet of of Yana. Novotna win. and She just seemed to be everywhere Nevada her. And so good, getting low to the ball of the strength in her legs, and a quarter was was extraordinary. Yeah, she and she would. That was the what really struck me was how low she was. To the to the ground, and that was seemed to be back then particularly, those sort of grass courts key to having success, and when she established that lead I mean afterwards. Steffi Graf is saying. I thought it was going to lose I I was basically accepting defeat. Really in my mind because I'm getting. She's getting outplayed. This does nothing she. She's got no answer to tennis. That's come into two. And then things changed, and you saw that moment, and it was hard to see. He can bear to describe it to us. Is this the moment where we have to talk about it, he? Put off long enough I mean. I I sort live i. saw this mess live, and you I'm trying to remember when when I started to get nervous on her behalf at the time. The the serve that when three meters out. Yeah, but but the thing is I think and I think what happens and and actually. The same failing comes over you when your rewatching reliving it as we have. This morning is that she hits that one an even back then I remember looking at her face. And just thinking. You know and you could sense that in the books. And what really got me today? rewatching is how quickly it all happen. From the just we in a flash, she suddenly four five down, and on the brink into fate, and she's she's four one. What would the skull she four one? She's four hundred forty. When she hits the double-faults, and that that that is the kind of symbol I think of this collapsed. That's the point that's always replay. That's the one I've seen, and she loses three points in a row doesn't share. It actually gets worse than that. It actually gets worse the next two points. She misses a forehand volley. Again it hits. It hits the back before it hits the court, and then she misses a smash into the bottom of the net and and then that's the. That's her getting broken for two. She then gets to fifteen forty on graph. Serve, so you kind of thinking okay? She's taken a breath. She's recovered obey, but then growth plays a good game to hold to get to full three. And then it's that game again where it such a tough watch because she double-faults twice in a row I think Novotna to hand the game to grow off to get it back on on level terms for all and then I think Novotna any wins one more point in the whole match as you said it just happened so quickly. There's no there's no time to to sort of stem the tide just It just runs away from a in an absolutely masterful moment of understatement when when when but Collins Asks Novotna in her NBC Post much interviewer, it all went wrong. Nevada said well. That that double-faults I hit at four, one, four, hundred thirty that that was unnecessary. Yeah. And actually. That little succession of errors. There is when you you feel this this is. She's in real trouble here and even though she has that little spurs. I. Remember watching the time you Kinda. Hope for the best. But you're not expecting it guy right because. When you start missing by that degree, you know that I've heard Andy. Roddick talk about how suddenly gripping the wreckage too tightly, and and it doesn't inelegant feels part of your arm the way throughout the entire match to that point. The racket had just been an extension the arm suddenly. She's holding something that isn't. Her racket. It's just like a rock. And Yeah. It was it was to see and then incredibly emotional afterwards when she? She's involved in that trophy presentation with Duchess of Kent Yeah One of the most iconic moments in Wimbledon history. You'd probably you'd probably have to say. Thank goodness by that point the runners up. We were receiving the the trophy the silver salver. Before the the winner. And Yana Novotna. Is is cooled by by the Duchess of Kent, as was customary and. It's so relatable in classic, isn't it when you're right on the edge emotionally? The. Loss thing you need. Is Someone being nice? Mean also the thing you need the most, but. It just sends you. Since he right over the edge and you could, you could see her falling over that that precipice lip goes she. She chose to bury her face in her hands, and then she buries her face in the shoulder. If. Can't on it. Is it's? It's the picture that was on in all the papers the next day. It is still one of the most iconic images that tennis has ever produced that moment is is where you had households that maybe two people were watching the match into people were doing something else and the to watching the match. Shout to the other two. You've got to come in and see what's going on here. This has never happened before and seeing an interview with the Duchess last night for several years later, she she said well. It's the most normal thing in the world, isn't it? If you see somebody upset you, you give them a hug and that's what she did. And it was just so related. I, think to everybody who is watching, and and it remains the iconic moments of Jawan about this career as much as when in the tight laughing. And what strikes me when I watched that moment is how public it is, and how exposed. She is by all accounts. She was quite a private person Yana Novotna occas- she was. She was open about being quite vulnerable, but A lot of the time. She was private and kept herself to a cell phone. This was suddenly she was so exposed so bad and in the kind of. Kind of cutthroat world of sport. You could imagine how other other opponents all this is. This is an age now. We've got over Yon- Nevada. There was absolutely no hiding there I think I was really I was really pleased actually to read some quotes that Novotna had on that moment a few later, where she had this sense of perspective on it where she said you know it was. It was a beautiful moment for everyone. Really End. I think actually it's good to show your emotions it can you up is what she said, and which is an extraordinary, extraordinarily healthy kind of capacity for that self, expression and self reflection and. Obviously, it turned into this iconic moment, and I think she I think she was at peace with as a moment as opposed to. Sort of haunting her in a way, we should could easily have done and. I think both parties have later revealed what was said in that exchange between on and the Duchess of Kensington? It was it was along the lines of. Worry you will come back and you will win this youtube goods. You'll to goods particularly to good across court player. Not In that was that that was i. think that the feeling of everybody else at the time. I mean watching the match. She looked too good. Gross School Plan Not to win Wimbledon, and we're going to hear from her coach for the first time now Hannah Manica wonderful. Fascinating interview, I got the chance to do with her a few weeks ago. Somebody that we we don't really hear very much. From in the tennis. Well is a great great pleasure to be up to speak to her. and. She starts off by talking. About Novotna's Jeremy to to becoming a gross court player in and the convincing that it took to make believe that she could be at home on gross. I tried to convince her because you know she. She way saw that she's a better. Player than? The asphalt spoke player and I said Yeah. It's it's absolutely. Nonsense you. You should be on the final of at least semifinals all the time. Because nobody's makes you game anymore. You serve you serve him only you'll slice just very very good. You trip in charges, so I kind of try to. Put, it in. that. She stopped that she can do so well on grass. And that's how it happened. You know To. When she was up set and four one hundred fifteen. and. She kind of couldn't handle that situation which she was never in before. Serving you know being up so far. like so. So much, and then losing and I think that picture off. That she. When she was crying on, the shoulder made him more popular than anything else in in Aquaria. Do you remember what is was like after that match? But it is appointing but you know. She was crying in the restroom very dow. but Yanna had exceptional. You see every champion something special. The other doesn't and I can tell you a story where she was up against conduct open. In French, open. The tentacle kills up set. Five laughed forty laugh, and she lost the match, and then we'll still leagues before Wimbledon. She came off the court and in two days. She totally recovered from that. So. She went back on the court and starting working very hard. Social exception was that she was, she was unbelievable, fighter and unbelievable. Forgot what happened in the past, but it's very difficult for other players to do that. That's why she didn't covered from all. She should win betty. Foss by working very hard. So interesting, isn't it? Because you've got the balance of if it becomes, it becomes a vicious circle with. I know I. Know Nevada has never PABST embraced the see. The actual would choke, but she. She certainly owned her Her losing from from winning positions these these situations, not just the Wimbledon one bit that other famous Hannam undercover reference. They're losing to Chanda Rubin at the French Open. The vicious circle of The more it happens, the more you think it's going to happen and therefore the more happens. Because the fear of it, happening is is almost the nail in the coffin. Isn't it and that Scott Tissue? We've talked about it with. So many current plays that Scott issue. Builds up. Before you even before you even realize it, and and it's not just the fact of it. It's all, said the perception of it as sort of to the fact that other every player in the locker room, but we've seen that nineteen ninety-three match. We'll have seen her just. Just crumble when when it mattered most in that chips away you'll. You'll aura. I saw that Chanda. Rubin match, and because I already had unknown, she lost matches against Sabatini for matchpoint I'd seen this this graph final. You ready for it the moment she starts to lose a couple of points words. You start to hear murmurs in the crowd. You start to hear commentators talking about it and so obviously doesn't necessarily mean that she is aware of what people are saying, but what must be going on in her mind, so it does as you say, it becomes a vicious cycle Mary. Really like like every bit e I think absolutely loved John In this game, but. He she is talking about it, but also reflecting on on what what a tough watch and I'm sure you can tell from the tiny of voices that we find a tough watch this morning with a tough watch the latter stages, if that nineteen ninety-three final were boy, she had a good game, then she she had, but again like you could tell when Yanna was getting sight Chee. Men She had that thing dead to rights and. When you watch Yana struggling so much with her, serve with her shot like everything was flying over. The Promised Land was right there and she could make it it's. It's like watching someone having to dance at their own funeral. In. It's just like Oh God, don't. Unfortunately well the great part attendances at. There's no substitution. There's no the clock doesn't run down. You can't hold elite and skate to the finish line. You just gotTa Finish at all. I've never asked Steffi about this but I'll I'll bet even groff will allow that. It was a sad winning. You know it was a tragic loss for Yana, but I think it was almost a sad win too because. Didn't beat Yana at the end. GROFF's just sit around while on a beat herself. Yeah. You can't poke the bus in tennis candy, ECON Nick WanNa lead, and then straight ten men behind the ball. And to be fair you're. Absolutely, did not do that. She had one way of playing, and that was to be gutsy and aggressive in, and she didn't. She didn't earth from that. It was just it was just the execution that completely deserted her. Have PS ultimate tennis showdown? You cannot run down the clock and tennis. But. Martina Navratilova has said that Yana, Novotna didn't lose to Steffi Graf she lost to the Wimbledon final. which is an incredible just to. Just to showcase how how much the moment kind of defeated Novotna? In that final and I think as an also an interesting conversation to be had about how you know. We've talked about Nevada being an intelligent smart tennis player. I know we've talked before in the past as well about choking being linked to intelligence and the kind of tight moments in sports. Coal Thor instinct and simplicity and I think. It seems that Nevada's jammed like her. Her processes a jammed by the thinking in the complexity and. I don't know whether you've ever read David Foster Wallace's of savage. Take Down of Tracy Austin's autobiography where he. He makes the point that that should have been a great story for Tracy Austin. Because she was so young, she was she won the US Open. There was a lot to unpack. Of Things to say and Tracy Austin wrote that I won the US Open and I was thrilled and. And his point is you know we've all done those interviews with players where? They give us it of stupefyingly empty ounce. What was going through your mind? Oh, I was just focusing on the moment and the point David. Foster, all makes is maybe that is the answer. Maybe they do have that kind of empty mind, and that's the key to knock choking to not thinking about things it's it's. Maybe, that's the essence of kind of succeeding in sports, a blank everything else out in a cliche tunnel vision, but what makes Novotna so special is that she doesn't seem to be able to do that. And it's actually human, sexy, human reaction, and also just just a testament to the way. She played the game, I think. My figure skating coach wants said to me. You'd be really good if you could turn your head on. which at a really really really low level? Is the same principle, isn't it? She said I can I can see the thoughts going through your mind as you set up for jump. She said I can see you picturing yourself. Falling I can see it in your eyes. I can see it going through your mind and I. I I totally get that. I know it is the enemy of. If tennis journalists and interview is everywhere that line about staying present facing on the moment. I mean my heart just sinks when that rhetoric comes out, but. I know why they and I know they mean it. I know it's something that I is a memo to the. Spend my whole life with my brain running a million times an hour, having completely unproductive unhelpful thoughts. Kant, relate to A. that's why they're not mortals. That's why they're multi grandson champions because they are able to to stay present. Stay in the moment as much as that sounds Gobbledygook to me. To. To to the likes of I, always think Nicole is a is a great example of that. Is just hit tennis bullishness tennis ball hit tennis ball. Not Saying he doesn't have test tactics or thoughts, but I think he's not thinking about the past or the present or the consequences he's thinking about. That point and that moment. And I'm not sure I've ever experienced that. That's why I've ever church. Let's from Chris Clarry for the first time we're going to. We're going to be hearing from all these people again because this is a one chapter in the story, but Yana Novotna with somebody that that he very luckily had the chance to get to know very well, well Yana I. Got Interview her a number of Times For magazine Stories, and for so I got a chance to really. Get a good a good sense of the person. Would a intelligent. You know sensitive person. She was so. I think that was the challenge for her was to sort of calm the mind and quiet all the thoughts that were going on there, and and let the game speak, and so it's A. It's a great story because there are plenty of situations where. You Falter. You don't come back and get another shot at it and she finally got the breakthrough that she wanted to Goran. Only being able to break through and get what he richly deserved. I think, but I think for yet for Yana, Thing was interesting, too, as she was able to articulate all that very well, you know she didn't wasn't all bottle up. She was able to express when you got her away from the tournament where things may be happening whereas all too much. Shoes incredibly in touch with her emotions and her. And her sense of vulnerability on the court. I remember talking to her once? About I remember using the word choking. She goes ls such dirty word. But you know what it's okay because I can actually see how it could apply in this case. Did you what? She did some work for BBC radio it, didn't she? David. Did you have the chance to work with? A common sites it alongside Yana a couple of times and I I was I felt quite. Quite an or of Hariri. He had this this clients. Serene composure as she would sit there. Watching the match in her eyes would never leave the court. She was sitting alongside the Coventry books, and she would a lot of a lot of commentators. You would turn to one another to have conversation about what you're watching and. She wasn't being rude. She was just in love with what she was watching. She was totally wrapped up in it and and her analysis was was just fascinating. I loved kind of. Depends on who you compensate him with some people you want to engage them on a subject on a talking point with her. You'd almost just want to describe. Leave it and let her fit in the gap because she was going to tell you something about the sports about the the actual tennis points that I can't see somebody who doesn't play the game and it was just riveting really. Really to listen to one of my favorite quotes of hers that you them dug up in the research with post retirement. She was asked whether she had taken. A complete break from tennis is so many of them do with? She was still playing still watching and she said Oh. Gosh I. Don't I haven't gone a day without tennis and I can't imagine going day without tennis she. Just was completely in love with the sport and that's. That's infectious, isn't it? That's. Yeah it. It sings through the screen when you're watching her even in her in her darkest moments, Nicole save is another one to come in. In one, thousand, nine, hundred, seventy, not as is nineteen ninety-three in an I mean. She was a set up in the nineteen, ninety-seven final against Martina Hingis, but I'm not shaw, even despite that many people see it is. is necessarily one that one that got away I. Mean Martina Hingis was a Wimbledon champion. That day she was. She was brilliant and she. She absorbed the story because it was such a brilliant story one. We're GONNA do a pot on in in itself. You know her becoming the youngest ever Wimbledon champion still the youngest ever Wimbledon champion sixteen years of age and. It kind of deflected a bit from the continuation of if the Yana Novotna story didn't. I think. Separately Hannah undercover said to you that the. Yang pulled stomach muscles think ahead of that final against Martina Hingis, so although she was playing really really well physically, she wasn't what she was in ninety, three or ninety eight on that particular day, and I think especially as stomaching. Refer Nevada with her game as we've been talking about that. Serve coming into the net afterwards. All is all putting pressure on that on that area of the body inch. If she was anyway compromise, it sounds like she was from the in the second third seconds, and then he gets just as you said kind of. Took over I. Think there was A. Not GonNa go too much into depth into the match. Because as you said what we're doing that tomorrow, but just from a Nevada standpoint, apparently she did. She did jokingly sort of grabbed the trophy at the end of that match and do a kind of. kind of mark. Mark Lifting of the title and. And some incredible sort of red diplomatic quotes from Hingis afterwards saying. Interested in diplomatic. That's not what we did for. Well I'm only interested because eating gates just. Saying that you deserve that title and you know as much as she was a Wimbledon champion waiting Hinga so to was. So to Nevada and once again the the the Duchess of Kent was that to give Novotna Silver Salver, and and it's understood what she said to her was. It'll be third time lucky. And Look we've seen plenty. You've heard plenty of lines like that in in commentary and punditry over the course of the last few weeks that have turned out not to be very true, and if taken on a real air of tragedy and papers, but Thankfully in apologies to to Natalie toes, an Nutley toes your fans out there, but thankfully mercifully it was the time lucky in in nineteen, thousand, nine, hundred eight. It was Frenchman Osea that that Yana. Nevada met in the final, and they see she violently in that second set details. You took it to the tiebreak it was. Relatively smooth sailing. Wasn't it and Thank goodness for that that she didn't have to get into too much of a squeaky bum time position, 'cause his. Who knows what might have happened. And if you look at the time span between the ninety-three, three final in the ninety, eight, one, as well as the ninety-seven lost to Hingis was the dominant player that year. One of the great in terms of talent. She also had two defeats to separate if eight to graph in Wimbledon one of the semifinal from a set up, and the second one was a straightforward graph, so you know she was running into the best at every stage. Although, yes, she she kind of lost. It has lost her own opportunity in ninety three. She was at least running into the best in one thousand nine hundred suddenly, she's playing somebody that is not going to be classified as the best. She was the favourite. She was absolutely as the favourite for the title that day, and that puts a completely different complexion on the match, doesn't it? That was that was the first time she'd been the favourite for final sending the heavy favorite, and that was something that Hannah Mandlikova. Reflected on his well during. During my interview with her, and I asked. The crucial difference was between Yana Novotna. Roof nineteen ninety-three and I'm the one that finally lifted the title in in One Thousand Ninety eight. She had to start believing herself in the crucial moments. You know you can believe you'll coach. Training and everything, but then when you step on the court, the older decision then everything is up to you and she had to learn to. You know by the book and she did it finally. In nineteen ninety eight. Where you know, it will be more pressure on her playing house. Who beat Davenport in a semi? because she to pay per wayne like hundred percent. So can you imagine she knew this is GonNa be her chance in her career, so the pressure was even bigger and greater than the to before so I think you know she it awesome. And she won't find him, but I was so happy for her, and in a way Wimbledon, was so my favorite tournament. I able only twice in the finals never wanted my team than happen, but Juliana kind of. A little bit. Did you start to doubt that she would fulfil that yours in her dream of winning Wimbledon? Now I can be a little bit. More honest than before I felt like. That's fine once again Steffi. He really should win, and they will say chain, so that was a real chance and I of course I. I hope that she's going to have another trans, but you know you. You still train heart and everything but I walked will be doubting that she will have another, but she did so. Going into that Wimbledon in one, thousand, nine, hundred, ninety eight. How was she kind of emotionally and psychologically was she scott by these big losses in the past, did she? Did she really believe? No I mean she she felt. The night before. We look at naturally Stotka tapes, and we spent two hours talking about it about the whole situation can happen on the court and you know. She knew this is her lost. She knew she told me I know. This is my last time I'm. Most I can to win, but You never know what can happen so. Was Her last chance well. How much do you remember if the match itself against Hosea? When I remember, the first said she won't easing. The second said they were holding source and then updated exceptional good tiebreak. I was more nervous than that match than any other much watching Yana, because I know and you much. She wanted to win an how many chances she she had in the boss to it so I really. Also, really you have no idea. Was it move relief than? It was suppose it was for your disbelief that she finally did it for me. You know I, remember all those and less hours on the core span or Michael, mincing her that she can do it and you know she can be a top three player or four whatever? Shoot. She got it her old herself all the time in the past and for me as I said you know also big. Thing as well I never. Know so for me, as I said was like a little bit fight over to in meant a lot to me because I. Know How much she wanted to. Can you remember what the celebrations will like that night? Yes, I do. I remember like. You know. I don't know what time it's finished, but she had no the rest, so they burrow burrowing dresses there, so we quickly have to get the rest for the ball and To the early hours in the morning celebrating. She had so many years to dream about what it would feel like to be a Wimbledon champion g think it. It lived up to everything she. She hopes it would be absolutely absolutely I mean. Not only in my mind, but I think in every players, mine is the. EPIC. Of everything. You don't find Grand Slam like that anywhere else. Anyone Missing Wimbledon? Just. Oh. It's I mean it's tough. Listen that in in in a number of ways, but it's a it's a wonderful lesson is while, isn't it? An it's an indication of. Tennis being able to. Tell human stories because that you know Yana Novotna's story is show. Such a triumph of the human spirit, really kind of inspirational you know. There is joy and redemption to be found. You'RE GONNA YOU'RE GONNA have to walk through a lot of darkness and dot places to get there, but if you can if you can get through it. There's light and. Just the way she was able. To, have her moment of joy at finally Wimbledon you know because people as we said, people associated Nevada with not doing it, and finally she was able to do it and I think. I think the ninety three Wimbledon final often get remarked upon as the more famous Nevada one, but this one. This one is the completion of the story and. And to think that men the Cova kind of went through it with her as well as. Israeli an added special element to it. Well I can't understate of the time watching it the universal reaction of happiness in celebration of just people who only switched on tennis once a year for Wimbledon, but they all knew Yana Nevada because they've all seen in the same position five years earlier and it say it FA. Do a bit, so if an athlete's house, you I hope she doesn't know too much about it. She seemed okay in the interview. We saw afterwards. But I just. I just felt the whole country that I was living in anyway, and I didn't work and. Everybody was just chuffed Yana Novotna. We'll toes. You gave that amazing line to Bud Collins after which she said what I think at the end they wanted more than me and look I know still waters run deep and everything but. She didn't seem as devastated as some Grand Slam. Final leases might be an I'd like to think that policy. That was maybe because you know she could. She could at least share in a little bit of the joy of seeing somebody's as. Deserving as Yana. Nevada lifting the title, even if it was her expense, Inc, she's quite an interesting player in a room. Right toes. You're actually she. She wrote a book while she was on tour. About the kind of under side of the tennis world it's infringe, but Pantley that is quite interesting and I believe she was heavily involved in Vancouver and rescues crea she. She coached her through the junior ranks So yeah, I mean she's aside story inevitably here, but I think she's quite interesting in her own right, but there's something else that Nevada changed for this Wimbledon final, which was inviting her mother for the first time her mother had never seen play a grand slam match because Nevada was superstitious I think it sounds like you didn't want to change their routine, but third time lucky. She thought something. Something needs to change here. Let's invite my mom. And she she flew over from the Czech Republic on the Friday night I believe, and was then there in the box when Nevada wins and climbs into the box, and she and she I goes over to Mandlikova gives her a great big. Hug, and then and then go straight for from other as well really touching touching scenes. Sorry. Yeah it really got to me. The embrace without a mum's the spitting image of the the other way round space. oh yeah, it's it's quite a moment and it was a moment that. That of course was made made all the sweeter because of what had gone before what she'd been through in order to get there, and that's something that that Merrick I reflected on. It's not that hard to get a reputation. In anything. Trying to kick it loose is much much tougher and and I think that is what. Again I think. Frankly. Like that Nevada didn't have to go through a top player to take her major title to take Wimbledon, it had to helped, and normally you know you think Nevada in a major final on I'm assuming the other guy is going to win the other player, but in that case I think all of us thought. Okay Yana no matter what you've suffered no matter what kind of luggage you're. You've got your taking on the court. You've got this. You've got this. She was a lovely person to and she knew her. She was really candid. She was very frank about about her struggles, which I always found so. endearing. You know she didn't try to say. I didn't show I I I. Don't know if you're the same way about this Catherine, but when I hear Serena say. You know like when she did a in the Siamese at the US Open. When she was trying to win the calendar Grand Slam. There I never choke. Look everybody trunks I just wish Serena, because my one of my favorite parts about Serena, Williams's that she chokes, and then she wins anyway. She figures out a way to all right. You know what what can I do here to re stabilize that to me is greater strengthened saying I. Don't show. that. She has time and again come back. To me, that's. That's like one of the great things to watch so I to say no I never trump nature you do. That's cool I mean it to me. Give me a Gimme choker over its hangar any day of the week choking inter care. You know that's what about with Nevada. That's what it was about with. Gabby does about anybody you know. It's been McEnroe against lendl. He trump because he cared. Why why? Why deny that about yourself? That I didn't believe in fate all mystical anything I'm very rational, scientific boring kind of person, but that that ninety eight victory for phenomena I mean. If anything was gonNA, convince me, we'll turn me. It would be. It would be a moment like a day like that it. It did feel like the Universe Wanted Yon Novotna. Wimbledon. I! Think you're right. I think it was. Everybody everybody, who is watching Wimbledon that day in the everybody knew what was all about right? I mean we all knew what she was trying to get over. Putting yourself out there. Putting yourself out there is. To me that just counts for so much. You know and I think you can only. Really only. Be Truly accomplished at something you love. And clearly. Nevada had worked a whole life. Trying to get to that moment, because she loved it, and that she finally won the same with Hal obscene with anybody who finally comes good at anything. You know you knew what it takes for them to get. You knew that they had to just keep trying. You know what's better than that. And want to try and follow up these words trip from Mary Queen remains just so much in there that say. Perfectly expresses say many things I think. It's perfect perspective on this idea of choking as well because. You know when you see someone choke occasionally. You can almost find it funny in a way and I don't mean to to make that sound cruel, but you know we were laughing yesterday about Andre Agassi. You know there's a there is a sense that it can be almost almost comical. But at the same time. It is it is because you care and knits, and there's an Mary's completely right. Putting yourself on that line is is. To be admired and. It's it's such a shame really that someone who chokes in the final will get more flak than someone who loses a comfortable maximum. Round one. You know it's it's to do with the spotlight, and you know the intensity of that moment, but the fact is you're getting to the final. Okay? You might not be able to get quite over the line. At least you've got there and. I think it's kind of a bit of a lesson really that we. that. We shouldn't joke about that kind of thing but I think we all prep still entitled to to joke about it because it's relatable for us because. Those are the sort of mistakes we is as May mortals make, there's A. mazing paragraph, he dug up from from the LA. Times the time in one, thousand, nine hundred Lisa Dome and if the LA, Times said. This was for everyone who lost the tennis match. They should've won. This was for two women who shaped our game and Psyche Hyneman Dakota and betty stove to players who came within a match of winning Wimbledon themselves this was for the Duchess of Kent. He supplied comfort and reassurance predicting Yana. Novotna would win Wimbledon on her third attempt in the final and the royals and never wrong right, but most of all it was phenomena, and obviously it's. It's desperately desperately sad that that. Yana Novotna isn't with us now She passed away in twenty seventeen. Of Ovarian cancer and is is. Is just desperately side, but. Thank goodness she had. Twenty years to enjoy being a Wimbledon champion. That's the only thing that you can comfort yourself with rarely I I think Because what was she? Forty nine years of age it doesn't seem right And Yeah it also, it's stunning to me that that's three years ago. It feels like a few months ago. That I that I heard that news and it stopped everybody in the tracks. Because as you said she was a private person, it wasn't something that got lots and lots of coverage and desperately not she. She was incredibly private about her illness. She didn't even disclose it to to some of those closest to her. That actually includes Hanadova he was a longtime coach as well as friends, and and it was a huge shock, clearly to to Hannah. Just tell you the truth when that happened. I just couldn't believe it. I got a phone call from Helena Sukova. In the early in the morning, and she told the the bad news and I just most like lying in bed thinking. This is real. This is not happening. This is I just spoke to her on her birthday. What's going on? He told me she's doing fine, so it will stall to shock total shock for everybody. For the whole world and I will be remembered as the biggest fire. That is for a nice, very nice person, happy person and She should be very proud of her proud of her career. And? She's yeah, she's left. Quite a legacy to the sport I mean absolutely absolutely. Connection with with Wimbledon in this country is so strong I think most people here which would see that photo of her from the the ceremony in ninety-three and recognize it instantly, and it's simply something so powerful about her story. I think can. How she is. You know that she's she was very open. She didn't hide anything you know. She felt like she felt like. I like for example for me. I was much more. INSIGHT PERSON I! If something would happen to me I would not show my emotions. She was showing her emotions because that's the person she she was and. She felt like crying. Is Trust. cheerios very emotional player, and a very emotional person of the court as well. I'm grateful. To handover forgiving time, and and not giving us the opportunity to to hear her. Pay Tribute to her because. I didn't on Narain and I. I wish. I did I'm? I'm so pleased, eagled the chance to work with a but to to hear that tribute from somebody that that new best is really really special and I just want to finish on on some words from from Chris Clarry one last time from. From The New York Times. On a on her loss and and How hard it hit the whole of the tennis world so sad Yana died so young. But I think. Given that tragic fact, thanks us able to think of herself rightly so as a Wimbledon singles champion. For All those years that she did have after occur ended. There weren't enough of them. But I imagine meaning that brought her on a daily basis day that you know and that's something that you're. More aware of that now as I get older, I look at these things that happened to players now is definitely aware of it with McGAURAN Wimbledon that he can always say you know I'm Wimbledon champion Being able to say that. Changes the arc of your life a retirement all the way through. And you go to the. Commemoration ceremonies and they always bring the old tennis players back. You see it again and again. And to have not be able to say you're a Grand Slam. Champion at the stage was would be tough your with all your peers, and so it has, it has a lot of residents of meaning for long time so. It's there's the joy of the moment and the release the moment and the moment earned, but then there's a wit it. Kinda keeps paying dividends throughout your life, he. Said, and A small positive. Chink of light in. What's a sod? Ending to the story, she's the only. Pineiro women's singles champion that that we've lost amazingly And, she'll never be forgotten. Lucia mean obviously as Wimbledon champion. She'll never be forgotten, but that image of her crying on the Duchess of Kent's shoulder will never ever be forgotten. Now, she's one of those champions that. Touched everybody meant something to everybody who watched her her journey and I also think for future generations I think. I think I could show that as images to my my eight and ten year old kids and they would be, they would understand what was going on. They would understand those moments desperately wanting something so much coming up short, but then getting over the line eventually, and I think that there is a great lesson in that I think Mary Mary sum that up so well in what she said about how you've just gotTa, keep putting yourself out there. You've got to keep giving yourself that chance and. Exposing yourself to the possibility of disappointment once again, because that's ultimately the only way you're gonNA get. If, it means enough to your your keep trying. And and you look at. It doesn't happen for everybody but. She kept trying and she she got over the line. and it's it's a beautiful story and it it's it is a very hard thing to accept that she's no longer here. At such a young age, but But, still what a story one of the great stories of Wimbledon history yeah, it's not the time in your life. It's life in your time as they say and. Yana Novotna. Truly lived. Desperately said that it was cut so short, but You know the she had her story will. Resonate forever. Really a lesson in there, perhaps for first Stephanie sits a pass and arena, the WHO were both born in one, thousand, nine, hundred eight. I realized that I I forgot to tell you what else happened in nineteen, ninety eight. That's me. She warning that in. Those two were born and the Monica Lewinsky scandal happened. SO THAT WE GO! And, what's remember Cova Dana? Hannam undercover is coaching her kids. I meant to look up what ages they are because she. Was the end of the. The sounds of th- walking tennis balls behind to and I just said. You know you. Have, you ever considered coaching again. Because she's she's been away from the sport as far as I know She said I I. Am I'm coaching blooming kids? And I think they might both be junior pledge. She's based in the states now. I think they might be. Genius plays over there. One of them's in college. in Oklahoma College as a as a player on scholarship I believe, but the other one is gone into the pros. And she said is around five hundred in the world, but yeah, she she she actually said to is listening to smaller. She said Yeah I'm back on the road. Can you believe it? They always say never again. Date me and. I remember asking Goran wants about what was his his probably then four year, old son Emmanuel was was brandishing a tennis racket with worrying skill and Goram. Is there shaking his head? Saying I didn't teach him that. Unless, you're going to be back on within Goran and his face just crumpled in a heap, but then you know Gordon seems to be looking for reasons to be back on tour at any opportunity that was the Nevada story. It was a wonderful pleasure to tell it obviously some some very harrowing aspects of it, but Will never forget what she achieved. A Wimbledon and it's been a to be able to tell that story on the tennis podcast will be sort of retailing a little bit of it tomorrow. We because tomorrow is still in the nineties David. chill-out few. Tamara is Matt is Martina. Hingis winning in Nineteen ninety-seven and just generally having one of the one of the great tennis seasons really that might be underrated. I think. I I. Certainly don't think it's talked about as as much as it should be. Considering how great it wasn't how young she was so yeah, Nineteen ninety-seven. Destination Tomorrow? We love setting people straight on on underrated tennis achievements, don't we? So? She's on Middle Sunday bonus. She's a middle Sunday bonus ball lucky. Yea, Martina I mean to be fair. The weather has been so bad in this week. We probably would have been doing and we put. It would've been play on middle Sunday when. It has made missing Wimbledon slightly easier to take. Hasn't it the fact that it's been miserable outside? We wouldn't have been sitting up on the roof with a and strawberries and cream. Say Sunshine. Would we just without them? Restore we ask. So that's the tomorrow staying in the nineteen. Nineteen ninety-seven wightman join them way loving them, thank he to Gerald as always being a rockstar generally and for Bang, all mascots thanks to David Andrew. With the research and to Sarah is well. He is providing me with the weird and wonderful nuggets about what happened when. I think it's pretty clear that I'm enjoying these so. Yeah, thanks for listening and we'll see tomorrow.

Yana Novotna tennis Nevada Times Yana Steffi Graf Martina Hingis Kent David Foster Wallace Andy Murray Mary Mary Hannah Mandlikova Chris Clarry Bud Collins Catherine I Martina Navratilova NBC US Goran Chanda Rubin
Putting a gay spin on 'Game of Thrones'

The Frame

26:15 min | 1 year ago

Putting a gay spin on 'Game of Thrones'

"From the Mon broadcast center. Ed, K P C C. This is the frame, I'm John horn on today's show, a stringent new abortion law in Georgia could threaten estates nine billion dollar film and TV industry as Hollywood considers boycotting the state, then Jonathan van Ness best known from the series queer eye explains. The creative process behind his game of thrones recap show gay of thrones. There is some yelling at the screen usually for me. But we turn the lights off we have snacks. And we right. There's a lot of typing, and we'll meet the singer who's known as the Cuban James Brown all that coming up on the frame. Welcome to the frame. I'm John horn. Thanks for joining us in recent years. Georgia has become a favourite out of state location for Hollywood. And that may now be in question today. The state's governor Brian Kemp signed one of the most restrictive abortion laws in the nation. It said to be enforced at the start of next year. The so-called fetal heartbeat Bill essentially bans abortions after women are just six weeks pregnant, it will likely be challenged. In court Hollywood's economic impact in Georgia is estimated at more than nine billion dollars. Current and recent productions there include the FX series, Atlanta, the marvel movie Black Panther and the upcoming horror film Annabelle three while the state's abortion Bill was being debated producers and actors threatened to boycott Georgia. If it became law to hear more about how the antiabortion law has divided the state and threatens Georgia's movie and TV biz. I called up Jim Galloway. He's a political reporter with the Atlanta Journal constitution, and we started with a statement made by actress alyssum Alano last month in front of Georgia's house of representatives. We wanna stand Georgia. We want to continue to support the wonderful, people know, wonderful businesses and communities, we have come to love in the peach state, but we will not do so silently, and we will do everything in our power to move our industry to a safer state for women if h four eight one becomes a law. What was she talking about? What is the industry said it might do? Well, here's here's a situation. She she came second believe, and she is she had a good many followers of walk into the governor's office animal letter threatening. A boycott of the four eighty one was passed. And this is the key to understanding the situation. Is that not a single democrat showed up the side with her? So there are a couple of things that are at issue here. One is the economic impact that film work has in the state by some estimates. It's nine billion dollars marvel makes a lot of movies there. There's a lot of television production there as well. So how important is film production, even with some incentives that the state might be giving these productions to the state's economy. It's become extremely important, and it's going to get more. So especially in in our technical colleges. You've seen you've seen them. Readjust curriculum to include full full degrees in in stagehand technology lighting electrocutions, and it has already it's already affected the the political waters in Georgia. You mentioned how there are. No, Democrats who are who are visibly supporting Eliza Milano when she presented her argument to the governor. What are the? Democrats concerns here. And how does it involve the state's union rules? The person you have to realize Georgia is a right to work state. It is very very hard for unions to establish themselves. And yet yahtzee local four seventy nine has just exploded since two thousand five when are when the tax credits for for the movie and TV industry began it started. Then I think they had maybe two hundred fifty workers in the union. Now, they've got more than five thousand and you've got a like number of Teamsters involved in the movie industry and in Georgia while they don't make up a large part of the workforce, they are crucial part of of the democratic political operation when it comes to national contacts when it comes to early money, and when it comes to organization on election day, let's talk about some of the reactions to the governor signing the Bill I spoke with a filmmaker and an actor this morning and both said in so many words, they will not come to work. In Georgia as long as this Bill is on the books, and I suspect you might be hearing from other people who are saying the same and you spoke with Patrick Millsaps who is a producer and CEO of Londonderry, which is a Georgia based production company. And he says that a boycott would actually be. I think his words were disrespectful. What is his argument? And what is he what does he advocating argument is primarily Hollywood has enough metoo problems of its own that it has treated women poorly enough that maybe it shouldn't be coming into Georgia and claiming the high ground, that's that's number one. And number two. It's it's it's you sing it respects. This is the actual size and effort of the industry right now in Georgia. So the woman who lost to the governor Stacey Abrams also said that she is a frayed that Georgians who work on film, crews make a living here will suffer and they're not to blame. So it feels as if even people who. Are opposed to the Bill. They have very mixed feelings about its impact on the state's film economy. If there is a boycott, right? Oh, yes. Absolutely. But what I think we're gonna be watching from here in Georgia. We will be watching number one union leadership here. And and what they say. And I want to hear what studio heads have say because they will make the final decisions on whether production comes into the state in stays in the state. I don't know whether an actual boycott will jump up here, though, before the bill's passage outside of actors like listen Milano were Hollywood studios lobbying against the Bill in any way, where they visibly out and against it. Yes. They were lobbying not publicly privately they were they were they were begging Republicans not pass this sucker. But it does sound like the Bill that governor camp signed will become law in the new year. And it feels like based on what I know there's very little chance that he is going to change his mind. Oh, no, no, no, no. He's already signed the Bill. It's part of the Georgia statutes, but the ACLU is this you have to remember this is happening in in about six other states pretty much the same legislation with with with with slight variations happening. And and the whole object is to get to the supreme court. So the first thing that's going to happen with his law is the ACLU down here in Atlanta has already got a lawsuit ready to file and it will go before a federal judge in the federal judge will put this into cooler until the comes to tional issues are argued out. Jim Galloway is a political reporter for the journal constitution, and he joined us from Atlanta. Jim thanks for getting on the phone. I enjoyed it greatly. Thank you. Coming up a game of thrones recap show that you can enjoy even if you're not a fan of the HBO series. Welcome back to the frame. I'm John horn. You've certainly heard of game of thrones the HBO series that is now in its eighth and final season. But what about gay of thrones gave thrones as a funny or die web series? That's been recapping game of thrones episodes ever since season three. The show is hosted by Jonathan van Ness. You might know him as the hairstylist and grooming expert on the Netflix show queer eye each week, a different guests like Gabrielle union or on a affairs sits down and Jonathan stylus chair for a pretend haircut and the to get talking about that weekend's episode of game of thrones with countless jokes and pop culture. References. Here's a clip from today's episode with actor and comedian Camille Johnny about a pivotal game of thrones scene between sir c and Tyrian. Lancaster? I bet you but evil no volume Carol Brady goes no dice. She's like, don't you tear us maternal instinct's against me. I am just as indicative and unreasonable as Amen that was recorded just yesterday, the funny or die studios in Hollywood where I visited a chat with Jonathan van Ness and Aaron Gibson the series creator and director, she's like don't you dare us. My maternal instinct's against me, I has been dictated and unreasonable as any man. She's like, don't you tear us nine maternal instinct's against me. I am just as reasonable. And I am just as and unreasonable as any man. When I sat down with Erin Gibson, and Jonathan van Ness after the shoot I ask van as how making time for gay of thrones works logistically with all his commitments for queer eye season. Seven shows the last season, I was in Atlanta shooting queer eye. So I would shoot queer eye Tuesday through Friday and get on a plane, and then come here do gave thrones get back on the plane, go back to Atlanta. And now this time I have said spoke to New York, and so Sunday mornings, I get up and I pop on a plane, and I get here, and then I come to show with everyone. And then I go home, and well, then I pitch all my jokes before everyone else gets pitch their jokes, which is really nice to me. So everyone's could stay up till midnight. And I tap out at night. And I'm like, oh my God. I'm so tired, which is the joke. But really I am. It's a lot like. We need you to be amazing on camera dies need to go to bed. What is it? Like when you guys are watching it is it like being Theodore everybody's talking about to the screen like, there's just constant banter. You making knows what does it sound like this new method where we're doing like one of our people will yell out the number. So it's like a scene one seemed to because we're all kind of writing while we're watching it. So there is some healing of the screen usually from me, but we turn the lights off we have snacks. And we right. We really are. There's a lot of typing are other tradition is that we always have ten degrees. We've had ten degrees every single year and shocked. Not sick of it. There are so many recaps of game of thrones. And what's amazing to me is how quick and how thorough they are? And when you're thinking about how you were going to both recap and episode and then do something. That's funny. How do you figure out? What is I? Because is it important that you get the story. Right. I and then at the jokes are what order they come in. I think it's always about serving the purpose of how Jonathan has regurgitated this show. So in my mind is always funny. I, but I do want this to be a cheat sheet for people who maybe don't watch game of thrones. And maybe one not feel like they're an outcast in society at work. So they do know what's going on. But first and foremost, it's about making this show funny, and allowing Jonathan to shine his very specific and hilarious light on a show. That is the most McCall thing on TV. The other thing that you guys seem to be really intentional about is making sure that you have the most latest pop culture references possible. So. So you just did an episode where you have a mayor Pete reference. There's a reference to the Boeing seven thirty seven max is that always like what happened that day that we can incorporate how do you think about what is and is not funny or worth including well, I have to say, you know, in in the episode from last week. It was all about Martina Hingis. This battle had more downs than Martinez. Hang stories his career. So I things are going great. She wins drilling open in ninety seven. Well, then she screws up at the French Open by serving underhanded, stuffy graph and gets booed off the court. But then she goes on to the lay at Wimbledon. Unfortunately, then she just positive for snow, which she denies. Let's what they love about. Our writing room is like it's really we are going to we're going to get an each we're going to go big. We're going to go niche gonna go. Now, we're gonna go eighty six we're going to go ninety four you don't know. Also, we might have a revolutionary war thing. Like, you just don't know what you're going to get last night we joke because we couldn't remember if we'd already made it, and it was a nodding hill reference, and it was. I'm just a dragon Queen standing in front of a murderous asking her to surrender. So how does the Martina Hingis reference come in? Because it goes on for like, two minutes. It's all of Martinez, tennis Greer the ups and downs. I forgot that she got popped for drug offence. There is a lot of research and detail in your Martina hanging story, we'll happen. There was as we air was trying to figure out a great analogy for something that has a lot of ups and downs. And we wanted to get through the battle scenes quickly because it was just a lot of carnage is a lot current and all the ideas that were coming up for something to had a lot of ups and downs. Just weren't feeling quite on the gay of thrones brand win all of a sudden Martina h'angus's underhand serve to Steffi Graf in the ninety nine French Open just leaped into my head. And I was like it's Martina Hingis tennis career, which when anything sounds like oh my God. It's Martinez tennis career adjacent to the battle of winter fell. I think it's just great comedy. You know, it's going to be good. When you are looking at an episode last night. Do you look to see how other people are joking about something to make sure that you're doing something different? I think by default of just you know, what this show is we are already doing something different. But I additionally wanna have safety nets in place by looking on Twitter seeing what everyone's talking about like, for example, the coffee Cup this morning everyone's talking about the coffee Cup. So how can we do it in a way where we're not actually like directly saying it? But like weaking at it. So like we had spoiler. We had placed different coffee cups in our set. But we never mentioned it. You know, we're trying to play a little bit cooler. And so where does that stuff fall that we wanna talk about that, we think is important, but not say the same things that all the other jokes that are being made on Twitter because they're being made instantly while people were watching, and we don't want it. We wanna make sure that we're serving different audience in a different type of joke. And also, I feel like sometimes when we all get onset like magical. Happen occasionally from like some improv on that. Or like when our guest comes in with specific experience or something. They went to add a lot of funny stuff like that to like from the people who we get to work with like last week with Gabrielle making a color purple joke. That wasn't in the script that was just her coming in and just bringing more magic to the show for cion. I hope him in the United in heaven. Oh my God. It's going to be like like when Nettie and Sealy get reunited in color purple. And I can't wait. We're talking with Jonathan van Ness and Erin Gibson about gay of thrones. This all started in Barbara share? Or do we call it a slaughter launch? I'm sorry. We all started us lawn chair couldn't recline that chair to shave errands face or not you know, how is the haircut. Well, John has been doing my hair for almost ten years. I met you in two thousand and eight no because I moved here nine, okay. So it must have been at nine in the end of nine by early two thousand ten I was like what's the hats dime, my own here on you were like, what are you doing? There was there was a little situation. When I when I took about two the shampoo to get ready for my boss, and I was like, oh my God. What's the, and that's when this will happen because I was working at funnier. Dia writer director, and I was at that point the only female on staff, and I was in the chair with Jonathan. He was recapping game of thrones to another stylus client. And he kept calling Robert. Rathi? And she, and I just thought this is really funny. So I went into funnier Diane. I was like, hey, I off the wall pitch. Can I bring my hairdresser? Who's never been on camera in here to recap this show? And literally this is the kind of place where they're just like. All right. So we did it. How important has gave thrones Ben to you? Because you're still doing it even though obviously since that first pitch a lot of change in your life. Yeah. It came through. So major to me. But really like get it was my first when Aaron said that I thought she meant like on a phone. I never really been like on a set. So I didn't understand like what we were really getting into. And then we have like Aaron I've done this for fifty three episodes together. Matt Massana our executive producer has been on this for fifty three episodes. And he was our first guest in the chair for the first episode ever. And so we there are people that have been on this show. Our core people have been on the show together since two thousand and thirteen. So it's like not only do I like personal relationships with them and look forward to getting to work with them right with them. Create together, we've created this like little magical baby together who people really like to get together and see which is so fun to do. And I feel like every other way that my life has changed which I knew I wanted to do here when I was like a four year old kid, and I always just wanted to be a successful hairdresser who didn't need to borrow money from anyone to cover my rent, and like just wanted to breathe, and when I started making stuff on camera with Aaron I got bit by severe case of I wanna keep making content bug, and my life has changed so much, but I would not have experienced like any of the changes that my life has experience. If it wasn't for my friendship with Aaron. And if it wasn't for her seeing potential in me that I never knew that I had. So I wouldn't be where I am an anyway if it wasn't forgave thrown. So there was no way I wasn't going to finish it out and come see my friends and get to make this finish. What we started, you know? But it was still obvious from the minute. You're talking in that chair to me like that you were meant to do this. Like, I wouldn't just put someone in chair on camera. If I didn't think that you had it in you to do it. You know, what I mean, it wasn't like some weird experiment rose. Let's see this is a failure. I was busy going to work because you're involved. But that's why I say that she is the usher to my Justin Bieber because she really did. Like discover she'd discovered me to me like I didn't even know that I could do any of the things that I've done. She was the first person was like, oh like ducklings potential. I didn't know Jonathan and Aaron thanks so much for coming on the show. Thanks for having us. Oh. That was Jonathan van Ness and Aaron Gibson executive producers of the web series gay of thrones on funnier died episodes, go up Tuesday on YouTube and on funny or die dot com. Coming up a singer from Havana who's known as the Cuban James Brown. Apple. Welcome back to the frame. I'm John horn US Cuba relations appear to be reverting to the Cold War era last month. The Trump administration announced a new Cuban policy reversing the changes President Obama put in place five years ago. Among the new changes restrictions on travel to Cuba by US citizens and Cubans who want to visit the US have to travel to a third country in order to apply for visas. But that didn't prevent a reason visit to LA by Sima funk. The singer whom billboard magazine named one of the top ten Latin artists to watch in twenty nineteen the frame contributor Beto ARCO spent some time with a singer whose called the Cuban James Brown. It's a Friday night at the no name restaurant and bar on. Fairfax. The blaze is backed with a couple of hundred people Seema funk and his seven Ps Ben deliver a blistering set of dance music. Sima funk is the brainchild of thirty year old Eric Iglesias, a self taught singer who moved to have Anna eight years ago from the province of banana, the real Iglesias did not attend Cuba's renowned music schools, and he doesn't come from a musical family. But he grew up solving a wide range of music, especially American bop, which you heard on cassettes in the family car every time that I could I get into the kind of night said. And I just literally kill the battery of the of the just Lisa music line Rishi and Michael Jackson's album invisible. This is my St. won't it also. Dan, look in DC. Iglesia has got his first break. He successfully addition to sing background vocals for pop singer row will pass began collaborating with different bands and projects. The. Iglesias joined interactive will collective project with some of Cuba's most prominent alternative music figures led by pianist Perleberg to carcass during the time he was with interactive will Iglesias and a couple friends created a cover band called la-z-boys, and he started to develop his own musical ideas. We say it was crazy with the rooms. I say may I need to start to spur sperm in the how I can I can know this way to seeing this way to to perform the the group. So I say, let's make a ban. We only gonna do cover from stadium for Michael Jackson. Once we understand what is about this problem that they have then we still the stuff that was the plan. But instead la-z-boys started making all kinds of other music like this one called what you think. Those boys got a contract to work for eight months on a cruise ship in the Mediterranean on the tour ended Iglesias had saved enough money to buy the equipment. He needed to records for style them. But he didn't have a name. He learned about the Cimarron culture. Runaway slaves in Cuba who created their own communities and live freely in the forest black people from many places for for many tribes from as usual places of all the all day was living together with difference. As sounds with different groups who different reverie tools with different maybe different gut, even and they all live together in they have to live together. Because was the only way to be to live without be slave. He called on some friends and together they came up with the name Sima funk combining Cimarron and Fung. Manager is at Rodriguez. He says the respected pianist, Greta carcass in gave him some valuable feedback. Deco epide- your own car, you're in a car leaving a concert on when he heard the record. He said this is going to be a big thing. That's the first time. I heard that chase. See my phone has been touring the US for the past six weeks making stops in sixteen cities, including south by southwest and Austin, New York, Chicago and New Orleans, but this is not a normal US door. I recently caught van having lunch and jamming San Polian park in LA skit row an area with a huge homeless population. We always try and make everything to ways as much as we can bring Cubans and Cuban culture and thought leaders to the US do show we bring a lot of entrepreneurs and cultural acts here that's calling Laverty the man behind Sima funk store Lavery is leaving expert on US, Cuba relations. He runs Cuba educational travel an organisation that takes Americans to Cuba doing the tour Laverty organized showcases for Google YouTube, a Netflix, I asked him why he took Sima funk to skid row. And he told me what the band said to him upon arriving two nights ago, we performed for Leonardo DiCaprio, and so that's just alone and a star studded lineup on a forty million dollar mansion in Beverly Hills. Overlooking all of the shitty and two days later, we're here in skid row and show. I think in terms of. Getting a taste of America, and understanding and also appreciating what they have another night Sima funk to part in Q and A and performance the Grammy museum moderator, Scott, Goldman Asti glitziest, if he considered himself, a renegade changing the perception of Cuban music Iglesias was candid. Recycled what he's done the reading. I know I know change any sort of doing things, I'm putting music stylishly. I put in this way this stuff. I put it together in a personal way. After the Kiana Sima funk perform two adoring audience that good not stop dancing, calling Laverty says Sima funk has the talent and division to become the biggest modern day human artists. So he is going to be the face accusa. He's going to be the cultural masseter of Cuba. And I think that serves a very important role in terms of allowing Americans understand the talent the kindness and the war of the Cuban people, which he clearly represent liberty says for sixty years, we've been relying on governments to resolve US Cuba relations, and they haven't done a very good job. But he believes cultural exchange can continue to build bridges, especially with artists like Seema funk for the frame. I'm bet to. And that's our show for today. Remember, you can follow us on Twitter and Facebook, you can find us at the frame, I'm John horn. Thanks for listening for back here tomorrow.

Jonathan van Ness Georgia John horn Cuba Hollywood Aaron Gibson Atlanta Seema funk US Martina Hingis Jim Galloway Twitter James Brown Eric Iglesias Eliza Milano reporter Brian Kemp Martinez Gabrielle union LA
Serena vs. Venus | Serena Means Business | 2

Sports Wars

33:34 min | 8 months ago

Serena vs. Venus | Serena Means Business | 2

"Hey. Friends listened to sports wars on the new wondering APP, and that includes our newest story arc about Venus and Serena Williams sisters and best friends destined for greatness. The wondering APP is the best place to quickly find and listened to sports, wars and favourite, wondering shows download it today and join wondering plus in the APP to listen Ad Free. It's January twenty first nineteen, Ninety eight Serena Williams is sitting on the edge of her bed in a Melbourne Australia Hotel Room. She's fidgeting the beads in her hair as she looks at two dresses that have been laid out for her. The choices were just dropped off by her new clothing sponsor Puma. She then picks up the first one by the hanger and steps in front of the full length mirror. She then repeats the move with the second dress and yells into the common area of her. Hotel Room Hey, v. what color are you wearing today? wight Venus calls out. Serena picks up the white dress again this time she holds it in the mirror and looks herself in the is white, it is. She thinks to herself classic. It's time to show the world I belong. An hour later. The two sisters are out the door. Today they're sharing a hotel room, but more importantly. They're sharing center stage in front of the entire tennis world. In a few hours they'll play inside rod laver arena in their first professional match against one another. and. It's a big stage the second round of the Australian Open each seasons first major. On their way to the arena, the girls talk like they always did in the backseat of Dad's minibus on the way to the courts in Compton. But as the courtesy, van drops both teenagers off for their match, they had to separate locker rooms Venus has the first locker room reserved for the higher seeded players. Life has been a whirlwind for Serena. Who just turned pro a couple months back? At Sixteen, she's already taken down some of tennis's biggest names Monica. Seles Mary Pierce Lindsay Davenport. She's already skyrocketed two hundred fifty spots in the rankings. Serena knows she can beat anyone. Her logic is simple. Venus can I can? Serena knows Venus can beat anyone because she saw her do just that from her courtside seats during Venus's electric US Open run four months earlier. It was awesome for the younger sister to behold everything up close every time Serena looked up and saw the name Williams leading the match on the scoreboard. She let herself believe that she was the competitor that she was winning. But Serena also wants to break away in. Make a name for herself apart from Venus. Today she realizes there will be two spaces that re Williams on the scoreboard at the Australian Open. But alas only one can win. Serena drops her bag in the locker room. She walks into the bathroom. She's apart from Venus for the first time all day, and she feels alone like never before on tour. Today she's without her closest confidante and she can't exactly talk to Venus about how to beat Venus. Their mother. Oracene is here as the coach for both girls, but she isn't about to give either advice on how to beat the other. So Serena is alone with her thoughts and going a little negative. The draw is bugging her. She's playing Venus in the second round. It's bad luck because she knows she can beat every other woman here. Nobody worries her. That is except for Venus. Her first round match was exciting though. Serena beat arena SPILEA, the woman who had purposefully bumped Venus during a changeover in last year's US Open semi. It was a big win for Serena and the next day Puma, approached her agent and signed her to her first apparel endorsement contract days later, she was ready to debut in their gear. Now after composing herself in the Locker, room before the match against her sister Serena heads to the stadium and get ready for at this point in her career, the biggest match of her life. Labor. Announces a voice over the PA system. Serena scoops up her racket bag and makes her way into the tunnel leading to the court. Once there she sees Venus. Her older sister is a few steps ahead, and she's not looking back to check in on little SIS. So Serena loosens her shoulders and takes a deep breath. Oh. It's like that she thinks okay. Let's do this. Support for sports, wars comes from our friends at rocket mortgage by quicken loans home. Today is so much more than it was yesterday, but at rocket mortgage home is still about you. During these challenging times we're all experiencing the top priority at rocket mortgage is the health and safety of the communities they serve, and while things are changing quickly every day. One thing that will never change is their teams commitment to giving you the best mortgage experience possible. That's why if you need mortgage support. Their team of experts is there to answer questions and offer solutions. They understand that hardships happen and they're here to help whether that means working with. With you to save money on your mortgage or finding a new way to navigate payments if you have questions, the team at rocket mortgage has answers. They know how important your home is to you because you are important to them. If you need mortgage assistance, the home loan experts at rocket mortgage are available to help twenty four hours a day seven days a week from their home to yours. The team at rocket mortgage is with you. Visit rocket mortgage dot com slash sports wars to learn more call for cost, information and conditions equal housing lender licensed in all fifty states, nmls consumer access dot Org number, three zero three zero. From wondering I'm Dan Rubenstein and this is sports wars. In our first episode, we explored how an unlikely pair of sisters from Compton. California grew into tennis prodigies Venus Williams, the older of the two was the first to turn professional at the age of fourteen. She found success almost immediately and soon her sister Serena would follow. This episode to Serena Means Business. It's late. January, nineteen, ninety eight and the worst of the scorching afternoon heat Melbourne beats down on the hard court that's hosting the match between Venus and Serena Williams in the Australian Open. The tour used to the L., a. asphalt giving off crazy heat in the summer, but nothing can prepare you for your first time on the Australian courts in the summer season. Venus instantly notices the difference. As she walks onto the blistering hot court Melbourne the rubber of her sneakers seems to melt and stick to the court with each step. As, the crowd sees her enter. She's hit with a wave of loud cheers. Her Father Richard. Williams is once again not in the stands, but her mother Oracene sits in the players Fox fanning herself. Over to Santa Court now the Williams match Venus, Williams and Serena Williams. About to start their match. The match starts out close and the first set goes to a tie-break at six games all. The sisters are playing as competitively as any time. Their father let them face off against each other incompetent. He rarely turned them against each other, and this set is showing why as they exchanged groundstrokes in heated baseline rallies? They're blistering strokes. Make it obvious that they want to bury each other on each shot. They both hit the ball harder than basically. Any other woman has on this court, and they can run down each other's powerful shots more quickly than anyone else can as well. The ball is a blur going back and forth and sewer. They're white sneakers as they flash from one baseline corner to the other. The sisters are style, the like in white dresses white beads, but it's Venus. Who stands out as the faster and Calmer Williams today? Venus edges out Serena and the first set tiebreak then she breaks arena serve early in the second set to pull away for good. as Venus closes in on the victory, she looks across. The court at Serena's is for the first time since they took the court, nothing makes her happier than winning a match at a grand. Slam but nothing makes her sadder than seeing Serena lose. For a brief second. She wonders if this is worth it. If beating the entire world is worth having to also beat her sister. The match ends when Serena Nets a backhand. The crowd erupts, but Venus isn't sure how to feel. She extends a hand at the net like she would to any competitor, but then puts her arm around Serena to console her like a sister. Part only briefly to shake hands with the umpire, and then Serena reaches back for Venus and she suddenly smiling. Let's take a bow. Serena says and Venus agrees relieved. She hasn't broken her little sister's heart. Hand like Broadway Stars after a successful opening night, Venus and Serena how to the crowd as the crowd roars. Finally Miles from. Soon after Venus speaks to the media, it was weird. I guess it was weird all day. Place Arena. But. I don't know this is kind of you. Don't want it to happen this way. We're GONNA make a pact number one number two, so we only meet missiles won't care because really for the title. Venus trying to tell herself that being one in to feel better than this, but she already knows she's lying to herself. She knows that Serena will never settle for being number two. So It's a little over a year after the Williams sisters faced off at the Aussie. Open and Richard Williams is walking into a pack media room at the Lipton Championships in Miami. The early spring tournament is not officially one of the sports. Slams, but it's still prestigious, and it's often called the fifth slam tickets for the tournaments. Bigger matchups always sell out, but today is special things Richard. Venus is playing Serena for the first time this year and this time it's in the tournament finals. TV personalities and newspaper reporters alike fill the pressroom hours before the match and Richard Is, they're holding court, and giving all of the sound bites needed to hype. The Williams versus Williams final. No parent alive has built such successful professional tennis players Richard and his girls are still teenagers. have been famous siblings on tour like John McEnroe and his little brother. Patrick or Chris Evert and her little sister Jeannie, but in those families, the bigger star completely outshine the lesser life. Even as teenagers. It's already clear that Venus and Serena are both stars in their own right. The Williams Constellation which has been a fascination for sports. Fans everywhere is now writing. The tour and Richard is basking in the glow. Richard stands at a large turn in front of a variety of print, digital and TV media members almost all of whom are white. He grabs the Mike and holds on tight, and then he sounds off on a wide variety of topics including what he claims is his multimillion dollar business. He points to his hat embroidered with the logo of Williams and Williams. He says his company will start publishing cartoons. It's also a charter bus company. He adds and do some work with mortgages. Reporters then turn the conversation to the real business at hand Richards prediction for the head to head matchup between his daughters the second time they've played ever and the first time they've faced each other in a tournament final. Richard knows that Serena always has an edge to her. He knows she'll be the better tennis player eventually, and the reason is simple. Serena is just flat out meaner. One time, a friend of Richard's had gifted ceramic piggy banks to Venus Serena and there are other three sisters in the House Serena accidentally brokers. So, what did she do? She broke the other for piggybanks to. If, she couldn't have one. Nobody else could either. Richard thinks back on the story reflecting on what it means for Serena's future. He's positive show fight hard and do whatever it takes to win more trophies than Venus, and he knows she'll get there eventually. But today in their first final Richard knows. It's Venus's to win. Head to head. It's still Venus who has the clear edge. She won both of their head to head matches in nineteen, ninety eight. And now as the match is well under way down the court, Venus seems in control even with the score tight. They split the first two sets, but behind better, serving and fewer mistakes. Venus takes the third set six four to defend her title. And she improves to a perfect three zero over her little sister. We, have it. Six four in the third Venus Williams over her younger sister Serena. Gray effort by both players. It's a hug from a big sister there. What a great moment! Wow. Family yes, very much so. It wasn't the highest quality tennis that we've seen all week from either one of them, but under the circumstances was very tougher, the play each other in the final. Richard as usual couldn't bear to watch his daughter's Duke it out. He leaves the match after a few minutes, but not because he was sure who would win. Afterwards when he's drawn like a magnet back to the awaiting media scrum, who find him smoking a cigarette near car. He hints that he'd been ready for an upset after he saw how well and how fearlessly Serena was playing. He tells the media scrum. It was Venus's house, but there was a thief in it. I really thought that thief. Serena would steal that match today. Venus knows that she wouldn't allow herself to be robbed today. She was the first of the two to turn pro, and she's always been the stronger player, and she continues to come out on top over Serena, but with her little sister, getting better and better on tour. How much longer will this natural order last? After years of trailing behind her big sister, Serena now seems to be right beside her. The gathered media has no choice but to respect Richard. There's madness, but also magic to his methods Venus is no fluke. It's Serena's arrival. That proves that Venus was no lucky accident. And now after how quickly Venus's little sister has established herself as obvious star. It's clear that nobody knows what they're in for when facing Serena Williams. Listeners France. Did you know that two out of three guys will experience some form of male pattern baldness? By the time they're thirty I know my heart rate just skyrocketed to, but don't panic and I'm telling myself this because I don't have as much as I did when I was seventeen eighteen years old. This is very true. The best way to prevent hair loss is to do something about it while you still have hair left, and our sponsor keeps offers generic versions of the only two. FDA approved hair loss products on the market. You may have tried them before, but probably never for this price and now thanks to keeps. You can visit a doctor online and get. Get hair loss medication delivered right to your house. That's right. They make it easy and deliver your medication every three months, so you can say goodbye bon voyage to pharmacy, checkout lines and awkward doctor visits. You know what that's like, so find out why nearly one hundred thousand men trust keeps for their hair loss prevention medication treatment start at just ten bucks a month, plus for a limited time you can get your first month free. I love that price, so if you're ready to take action and prevent hair loss, go to keeps dot com slash sports wars to receive your first month of treatment for free. That's K. E. E. P. S. keeps dot. com slash sports wars. We get support from ziprecruiter during this time of change. Want you to know that their focus hasn't changed their still doing what they've always done helping. People find work and helping businesses find the right people for their open roles, so if you're looking for a job, Ziprecruiter is working with you to find the right job faster. That's a good speed. I love that speed of faster. They're dedicated to helping you. Get hired from caretaking to delivering food and goods to building medical facilities supplying protective. Protective equipment and so much more. In fact, ziprecruiter's APP will send you up to date job openings, so you can be one of the first to apply, and if you're actively hiring ziprecruiter will invite candidates to apply to your most urgent roles, making it faster and easier to reach the people you need now by connecting people who need jobs and companies that need people. Ziprecruiter is working with all of us, so we can keep moving forward. Let's work together Ziprecruiter Dot. com slash work together. It's September nineteen, ninety nine in Queens. New York just five months after Venus and Serena Williams faced off in that final Miami. Today the buzz at the US. Open is growing louder and louder. The two sisters could be on course for a repeat final showdown. Venus seeded third and Serena seated. Seven are on opposite sides of the women's singles draw, and both have marched their way through to the US Open semi-finals. Serena takes care of her side of the bargain in her semi-final match. An halfway there. All Williams final. What are your plans now? You'RE GONNA. Do we're going to see you understand? Watch your sister I think so I'm definitely going to be supporting and I. Mean this is Great. I did my part now. It's up to Venus. Serena is eager to play her first Grand Slam final, but she's still anxious. In just two hours. She'll know if it's Venus will be across the net. And if that's the case, the winner will have her first Grand Slam singles title by beating the other. Serena takes a seat in the players box. Before Venus's primetime sold out match against number, one seed Martina Hingis, who beat Venus here in the final two years earlier. Serena wants to be here. Watching her sister instead of resting and getting treatment ahead of the final and here she starts to realize something new. For the first time she's feeling conflicted at one of her sisters matches. She's playing the best tennis of her career and ready to raise her first Grand Slam trophy. As she takes a sip of water, watching Venus and h`angus exchange warm up groundstrokes. She thinks I've beaten Hingis twice this year. I can do it again. And also I don't know if I can handle losing Venus for the fourth time in a row I want being to win I. Always want to win, but I want to win this major even more. Venus heads her chair one last time before her semifinal match begins, she sets her racket aside picks up a towel and then she makes eye contact with Serena flashing a smile directly at her sister. In that moment Serena snaps out of her conflicted funk way. How could I possibly root against my sister? She thinks if she wins I. Win even if that means I lose. But this night just doesn't belong to Venus. She fights and scraps like she never has before, but Hingis takes advantage of a sloppy Venus third-set and is quicker and smarter when it counts. This! Shift Sharia, A heartbreaking loss for Venus. Martina breezed through the first set. How did you hold her off and maybe now more importantly? How do you beat the other Williams tomorrow? It's going to be very difficult for both of us to. The same effort we did today semifinals tomorrow. Step, stay me on the court again. Not GonNa. Be Easy against the other Villian Serie Nine. It's going to be a great match. Serena is relieved if not still a bit conflicted. She knows she wanted Venus to win sheep concisely tonight, but she also knows she can take. Hingis Serena knows that now. She has the ability to make the US Open about her, not her and Venus. The next day Venus takes her seat in the players box at the massive Arthur ash stadium for the final. It's a warm afternoon, but Venus wears a black Hoodie with the hood pulled tight around her face. She's arrived as late as possible because she doesn't want anyone to look at her. She never wants to be seen after she loses, but no matter how badly she wants to hide from the world Venus feels pulled to the stadium. She wants Serena to see her there to know Venus's rooting for her has her back. The match starts and Venus. That higgins is worn out doesn't have her legs. The grueling semi-final took an emotional toll on Venus and it looks like it's not exactly helping Martina Hingis. Serena takes the first set six three. She then digs into battle in the second set, ripping winners off both sides and pushes the match to tiebreak. It's there that she'll all, but seal the match and earns championship points. Currently it's been pushed Serena. And the entire Williams family. Serena runs over the corner of the court where she embraces her family. Venus is smiling brightly, sting composed for her sister, but as soon as Serena isn't looking Venus can't help but to feel disappointed. She applauds, but her fingers barely touch. This isn't how it's supposed to go Venus. Thing says Serena is handed the trophy. Serena is supposed to win slams too, but she isn't supposed to be I. It seems like forever. She shared. Everything with her sister Venus, but now the stage. Belongs to Serena. US Open champion. Venus, keep staring at her little sister. The champion looking at her like she never has before for the first time. Venus is studying Serena trying to figure out what her little sister has that she doesn't. It's July, sixth two thousand. Venus and Serena Williams are staring at each other from opposite ends of Wimbledon's Grassy Center, court. Venus is upset about the draw and she knows Serena is to. There facing each other in the semifinals, not the finals, which is where they like to square off. Playing today wasn't the plan. It's especially difficult for Venus. She still never lost an official match to Serena, but the balance of power feels different to her this time. After last year's US Open Serena is the slam champ in the family. Suddenly. Serena's the one on top in the category that the tennis universe cares most about major championships one. Venus isn't about to let herself fall behind to slams to zero. No. gritting her teeth and walking in Venus wins the first set comfortably and has matched point on Serena serve in the second set tiebreak. Pretty said Max. So really wrap. Delivering, a bubbling pump the news from. Six. died. They slowly walk toward each other at the net and Venus puts her arm around Serena. And now she sees that Serena is weeping openly. Venus should be celebrating basking in the moment. She's reached her first Wimbledon final. But in this moment, all Venus wants is for Serena to feel better. Let's get out of here. Venus tells her. The match was exhausting for both of them as they faced each other for the first time in the crosshairs of the relentless British tabloid media. How much. Of A relief it to get past Serena and all that publicity of the company that well, it was just fine playing. The man thing was the press kept asking questions. We talked to me. What would you do for breakfast or you're GONNA hit together? Do you think you'll still be friends? Which is all? You know really ridiculous because serious. My sister and I love her more and so many things. Two days later, Venus plays her first Wimbledon Final Serena watches as the five seed Venus goes up against the two seed. Lindsay, Davenport and Venus finally channels the ruthless killer instinct. She'd learned from Serena in New, York the year before. As the match unfolds, Venus watches as her father Richard Exxon the sophisticated, polite crowd center court. From his seat between points, he holds up a small dry array sport with scrawled messages on. His final message on this women's final Saturday reads. It's Venus's Party and no one is invited. Wimbledon is known for its quiet, but Richard wants to make sure everyone can hear him. The first father of the East Compton Hills Country Club as he liked to call the rundown courts and the L.. A. Park area is taking over Wimbledon. Winning more of the huge moments in a very tight second set paves the way for Venus to take the match earning a Grand Slam triumph for the first time in her career. She immediately makes a beeline for her family. In the Centre Court stands as soon as she can. And there's Serena clapping in the front row. Congratulations You've dreamt of this moment. So, what does it feel like now it's. It's really great because I've been working so hard on my life to be here and you know it's strange because like I, go to bed at night. Dream Jane that I want to Grand Slam when I wake up. It's a nightmare. Wake up like that new. The nightmares for Venus are now officially over especially since the newly crowned Wimbledon. Champ continues her winning ways and reels off a thirty five match winning streak that includes a title at the US Open. And it's. Long and slams. Open, champion And Gold Medals at the Sydney Olympics where she wins doubles gold with Serena and singles on her own. After Serena's brief stint on top after the nineteen ninety nine US Open Venus is back on top in the family, and behind a huge serve and devastating groundstrokes. She's proving herself as the best player in the world. A year later. She defends her Wimbledon crown over future number one and Future Alzheimer Justin Anna crushing her six love in the third set to secure her third. Grand Slam title. Serena meanwhile, she still stuck on one. Over and over Venus is solidifying her status as the best player in the world every time she wins, she feels herself proving not only herself as a player, but also her father as a coach, which means everything to her. But Serena, the world will soon learn and as Venus new all those years ago can't stand being second. Anyone. On the next episode of Sports, wars Venus gets to number one in the world, but if Serena wants to get there to, she's going to have to figure out a way to be number one in her family. It's the to Williams sisters at the top of the sport dominating for twelve straight months, but suddenly the dynamic gets turned in a whole new direction from wondering this is episode two of Serena versus Venus for sports wars. If you like our show, please give us a five star rating and review and be sure to tell your friends subscribe on Apple podcasts. spotify the wondering APP or wherever you're listening right now. Join wondering plus in the wondering APP to listen Ad Free. You'll also find some links offers from our sponsors in the episode notes supporting them helps us to keep offering our shows for free. Another way you can support. The show is by filling out a small survey at wondering dot com slash survey and tell us which sports stories you'd like to hear. A quick note about the re-creations you've been hearing. In most cases, we can't know exactly what was said. Those scenes are dramatization, but they're based on historical research. If you'd like to learn more about Serena and Venus Williams. We recommend the book on the line by Serena Williams, macy magic by Rick macy and By John I'm. I'm your host Dan Steam I also co host, the solid verbal college football podcast with new episodes dropping each week all year long. Ben Rothenberg, wrote this story. Produced by your own Scotto Gabe. Goodwin Jen Roman and Gabe ribbon sound design by Jason Freeman. Are. Executive producers are Jenny, Lower Backman, Marshal Louis or non Lopez for wondering. Hey! Want listeners I'm Nikki Boyer host of Wondrous. Show the daily smile. Every day we share heartwarming warming stories that will lift you up. Shine a light, and make you smile like our episode about a woman in Minneapolis who saw an injured protester and jumped in to help little did she know that this act of kindness would change the course of her life to hear taking medicine to the streets and other uplifting episodes of daily smile, subscribe on Apple, podcasts, spotify or the wondering APP.

Hingis Serena Serena Williams Serena Venus Venus Serena Venus Williams Richard Williams Serena Nets US Williams House Serena Richard tennis Australian Open Compton rod laver arena Martina Hingis Calmer Williams Oracene
News in Brief 22 April 2019

UN News

02:53 min | 2 years ago

News in Brief 22 April 2019

"This is the news in brief from the United Nations, the UN special Representative Libya and head of the UN mission in the country. Well, Gus on salami is continuing his efforts to try and deescalate military action in and around the capital Tripoli. The commander of the self-styled Libyan national army began an offensive to try and take the Libyan capital from forces backing the UN recognized government more than two weeks ago. Here's UN spokespersons to Fantasia wreak. We've correspondents in New York on Monday. Mr. Salam as progress he met with Tunisian foreign minister Cammie Gina we in Tunis with whom he discussed developments related to the clashes in southern Tripoli both asserted that the UN facilitated political process is the ideal in only way to solve the Libyan crisis. According to the UN office, coordinating humanitarian affairs, ocher thousands of civilians refugees and migrants during trapped in conflict -ffected areas. Unable to flee either because of fighting with attention and a statement released on Monday, ocher said that medical teams were working relentlessly to evacuate and. Care for people wounded in the conflict through the Tripoli flash. Appeal the humanitarian communities urgently called for ten point two million dollars to continue providing lifesaving relief, adding that humanitarian needs in Libya rapidly, increasing while funding levels remain, low traditional knowledge is at the core of indigenous identity culture and heritage the chair of the UN permanent forum on indigenous issues said at the annual launch event on Monday stressing that it must be protected and nor GAM who is a member of Finland Sami parliament and head of these semi councils human rights unit said the forum offers an opportunity to share innovations and practices developed an indigenous communities over centuries and millennia indigenous peoples live in some ninety countries represent five thousand different cultures and speak an overwhelming majority of the world's estimated six thousand seven hundred languages and while they make up less than six percent of the global population. Indigenous people account for fifteen percent of the world's poorest. According to the forum, MS no GAM encouraged, all Member States to. Keep children connected to their indigenous culture and community stressing that these languages enabled us to protect our traditional knowledge. Three top United Nations officials will visit Bangladesh late this week to highlight the need for supporting the humanitarian needs of almost a million ranger refugees. Now living in the country. The UN announced the visit of High Commissioner for refugees or UNHCR Filippo Grandi, the direct to Germany of the migration agency IOM Antonio Vitorino and the UN relief chief Mark Lowcock head of ocher. In a statement released on Monday in the capital Dakar, the delegation will hold talks with senior government officials, and then travelled to Cox's Bazar to meet refugees assess preparations under way ahead of the monsoon season. And visit UN support projects. The aim of visit to highlight the need to continue strong international support while solutions can be found for the safe dignified return of Hingis to me and more. Matt wells, UN news.

UN UN Tripoli Libya Libyan national army United Nations Gus ocher Mr. Salam Tunis Representative Filippo Grandi commander Matt wells New York Cammie Gina Hingis Bangladesh Finland
The Count's Castle

Get Sleepy

1:00:07 hr | 4 months ago

The Count's Castle

"Welcome to get sleepy. The podcast where we listen. We relax and we get sleepy. My name is thomas and i'm your host. Thank you for tuning in and making this podcast apart of your bedtime routine. Elizabeth is back to rate tonight story. We're headed to an old town. Where mysterious castle is patched. High on a hill will explore it by candlelight and returned to town as night falls. So we'll join elizabeth shortly but fast arm really excited to tell you. That's how fast ever get sleepy. T shirts are coming very very soon. I know many of you have been patiently waiting and we really appreciate your excitement. Now if you would like to be the first to know when they're available then make sure you sign up to our newsletter you can find the spot to enter your e now at the bottom of our website home page so just go to get sleepy dot com to subscribe and keep up to date with get sleepy news and announcements asks for tomorrow. I'll be reading. Our exclusive thursday episode on get sleepy premium will enjoy an adventure along the coastline of the italian of capri. It's a nice season. Oh escape if he liked to hear that as well as all the other exclusive episodes and our entire back catalogue then go to get sleepy dot com slash support or. Just follow the link in the show nights to learn more. tonight's episode is supported by native deodorant. I've been using natives mint and eucalyptus deodorant for the past few months and it's become a staple of my morning routine. It smells incredible. And it's better for my body than deodorant views. Previously native never uses potentially harmful ingredients like aluminium parabens so fates or talk and it's also vegan and never tested on animals as ran to the festive season. Native have just released. That candy cane holiday sent and the candy can gifts that would make great stocking filler for everyone on your list so find out for yourself why everybody loves native and why they have over. Fourteen thousand five star reviews. Give the gift of native by going to native. Do dot com slash. Get sleepy or use the promo code get sleepy at checkout and get twenty percents off your fast daughter make sure you order before december the seven to get your products in time for christmas that's native. Dao dot com slash. Get sleepy or use promo code. Get sleepy so now. Let's prepare for our story. Get settled into a comfortable position where you can breathe freely and fully once. You're ready imagine that your body is surrounded by radiant light warm and glowing as you breathe in. Draw that light into your body and feel it's glow within the dp you breathe the more that light fills every single piece of your being one breath at a time. You are emrich by this radiance. It feels like energy like a nut. True source of healing full of nourishing warmth and a calming it clears all of your worries discomfort and negative liberty you glow from within and everything in the outer wound will notice it too so embrace it and smile. It's time to tan to our story. Now so let your mind wander beyond the wolves of your home beyond the town or city way. You live to replace. That is marked by the passage of time where old stone wounds line square in the center of town. You're not quite sure where you are. But the weather is idyllic. It's the middle of fall a colorful assortment of leaves sway on the tree. Branches is testing the wind for the pathak moment to set free those days that have already chosen to let go have landed softly on the ground. They crunch scatter beneath your feet with every step Imagine you're standing in a small square nestled in an owns. This place dates back to medieval times. The buildings are weathered and have seen many years. Go by the square is empty. Save for a handful of trees crying in the shadow of the beautiful architecture. The s crest You and case not long. The last remaining leaves on the trees around here shine crimson and gold as the sun against to set many. Have the branches all ready. But some clinked that leaves as they're hanging on to the final touch of summer for as long as they can a coup who prays washes over the tops of the tanks and into the square. It kicks up the leaves that have already fallen into little flurries of autumn color. That's why around your feet. One believes catches. Who is it is long and then with jacket brown at ge's that's come in with like old parchment. It sent his private lemon yellow. With spots of green and red discoloration mocking. Its janney three four. The hick set up and tosses it into an arched passageway leading out of the square as it tumbles through the enclosed space. It is hidden from view. Just hammond by the showers. Within a curious you follow the you had the sound of your shoes tapping rhythmically on the cobblestones. Says he will. The sound is rich and pleasing to the ed. It echoes slightly as you pass under the archway and into the small tunnel. You feel a sense of closeness compatible to the open square behind you. You can no longer see the sunset sky hand the rustling the leaves as they trump from the branches and flanked light from stein. You quick and your pay to catch up with the leave and soon find yourself back under an sky a fear. Hey peh thin. Clouds dance across the golden blue back trump. Who just ahead you spot the leave. It is chance lean tumbling toward a grey stone war overlooking a wide river. This is the edge of town. He realized the river to fides the old city from the surrounding countryside. Either steady sound of the rushing water. You imagine it would have made a formidable barrier in ancient times. Now kit seems to enclose the city and keep it from spilling into the night champion. A to wonder what once may have kept you. Follow the line after afterlife up your field of vision from the ground to the warn opposite e in the distance you see a forest ham a narrow wines to the talk and there you see a solid harry castle. Chd like a car koya from hand. It's looks great and with shop at chess. Protruding from unexpected places walmart a strange belting you think and then you remember something you had a few days ago you assisting in a local cafe enjoying the coffee and a bite to eat. The way realized you're not from around here and with keen to chace stories about his home. He must've told you about local sites. You shouldn't use us. He also mentioned the lonely castle on the hill. He sat there have always been strange. Towns told about the place it is rimet that one it belonged to a mysterious count. He lived out his life in the castle. Nafta venturing down the city pillow. Some people will patty. They've seen backs sack hangover on winter evenings. Making curious patents in the sky other say a while. No on lifts anymore they can still see lamplight flickering in the distance on autumn evenings. Like you shift your gaze back to the sky. The sun sets over the past. Few days have lasted quite a while. You should have enough time to get to the castle. The fort star you think. Few golden race seemed to shoot up from the low sun and set the sky a bolaise. It is as though the brightest moments of the day coming just before night when the sky is illuminated. I announced last night. You set off to the castle short way down the by preach crossing the river and why the right size for a carriage to pass with plenty every on either side when you reach the midway point if the page you look out for the war is fast moving river which has more rapids every so often where the water splashes clusters of wrong. The river curves around the edge of town out of sight. It seems to hug it class keeping it safe and protected its waters are deep dark blue with streaks of white around the rapids near the horizon. It shines messed silva the color of the sky fades as well to team hunkin orange. The sun hangs liar and it's bottom. Anche is already out of sight. You continue on your way to the other side of the river. The sound of the current masks any noise the city makes you can see it clearly but all you is the river itself and the quiet whispers of the forest had. The single ride begins at the bridge and rises gently at the pace of the him. You follow it across an open. Grassy plain which gifts away to clusters of trees after a few minutes forking soon. The trees class together seemed tower. To think it is just a trick after light. Son sat casts long shadows across the crown. Each of the trees has one of these dark reflections which form one on top of the in of back in the forest have view of the horizon around you the branches of black lake anglo to the crown. Some rush the top of your head as you pass near them other foreign across your path like catton's waiting to be that trunks fan and star almost flat in place. The branches are owned and out at many angles from that day. As you work your footsteps crunch across fallen leaves every so often A crumbling sound as your shoes find that any eu foreign intel retin with your foot false and you find it helps pass the time to ask you. You watched the forest transform. It is dark here. Among these timeless trees you feel. The path continued to slip up. Point want you cannot measure your progress against the city or the river. You know you must be much higher than they are. Now you take deep breaths as you relishing smile of the woods. That's the sweetness of mixed with the heady aroma of the fallen leaves the scent of pine underlies it on giving that a wintry. You imagine this place must be used in the snow the green and brown and would stand out in a crate of relief against alight backdrop. In spring you can imagine twists hearing from the branches and the farce in f. French changed f green. You our town someday. Ooh and explore these. what's in other seasons. Now is the subtle shifting nature of form. You enjoy this season of transition and change when the landscape shots. It's all tough and prepares for cold days to come a little had on the path. You see the trees begin to thin out. You must be coming to the top of the hem you follow it. As it carves sharply around stand of pine and then comes to an end at a sat a front i n gain they archivist and you see latch in order to happen them. Beyond the hinge s on either side. The fence continues off into the woods. It must and sack the entire prophecy. He realized With no way you see now other choice ton Chest as you are shifting your stack back down the hand cranking noise behind Shelter and seen thick swing as no one had a breach. It has the castle itself has decided to let you in not one to pass up an opportunity for adventure take a deep breath and then step inside the game. They do not swing shut behind. That's rather stay open just a crack enough to pass through you on your way. One final glance at the path down the hill. He make your way toward the castle. It stands before you large and imposing it had hand gray from the lower but now you see it is pick us dispense atop cracking outcropping. It seems to cry from the rock itself. You can hardly tell well one end and the author bacon grey and beige stern bronx makeup. It's thick time has left. Its mark on the castle and the stone shows signs of age crawling ivy has found its way into the rough cracks. That's run up and down the signs. It's rare was once prick. He think that's now is the color of rows on a cloudy day covered parapet the top shift the castle to one side a large round tarring shots into the sky otherwise the castle is blocking and squared off. It is there. It were built haphazardly on this. Hell by someone. He had an idea but kiss nervous. See it through completely the foyer. Esat of large wooden doors. Mark the entrance. They are held in place by heavy ion hingis. This black matte is ever present. Lining the walkway to the toss. Steady iann stein's hops. They once held torches to light the way now they stand empty of black ribbing waiting to be filled as you approach the doors they to swing like a gates before it seems this there. The castle itself is welcoming gear inside the doors. Lead to a large hor light from the setting sun illuminates the otherwise shadowy interior. The wall and floor a made the same coned stern which fills the you pu your coat class around you grateful for its warm on the horn till right. Several wooden pegs on the nearest pag hangs along clark which sways chancellor in drive from the app window trying surpassed innis castles apps. It was left eye as groundskeeper sometime ago about. Who would have such job in a castle like as you walk down the hor- your footsteps echo off the stein Call back to you from the walls and ceiling high above your head as you reach the end of the car at the front door swings. Shut throwing the horn into dock. One by one smooth candles flicker to life around you. You hadn't net them before thin and why they said in the spindly metal arms of candleholders affixed to the warms ahead of you resting on. Wooden table is a matching candle brown. Three snow white tapes stunned torn top hat. It is shaped aca fork with a central staff and to branching on which fall out from it sites in a deep cut off. Its design makes the middle candle. Stand a little taller than the others. He pick it up and feel the cool metal on in your hands. It's not too heavy and will help bring light your way as you explore a castle you under little archway and into cavernous s room. Old coats of arms. Hang on the wall. They are covered in images of strange beasts and mythical creatures crossed swords affixed beneath him as the soft candlelight band says the shadows stunts on their empty stone around them in the corner after this ram stands torn object cuthbert. Nfl fit blanket. You approach it. Cafe unsure of what's nice beneath with the tips of your fingers. You give the blanket attack. It's false back to reveal an enormous mira on a heavy golden. Stand the face. The mirror is worn with time. Small stains of gold and brass. Ma it sophists but you can still see your reflection clearly. You wonder why someone would cover up something so beautiful. Perhaps the blanket protects it from the dust sat down your candelabra and pick up the foul at fabric placing it gently over the frame and once again hiding it from view You take one final. Look around as you reach for your handle. Halter ceilings in this room torn and lined with. Dark wooden beams. Give you a sense. Of ageless beauty and make you wonder. Just how old this castle beyond this room. You find a narrow corridor. It's leads to the kitchens. Cobwebs drape across a heavy chandelier in the middle of the room copa and pans hang from hooks on the war but have knocked than us. Sta land of dust has settled on the countertops. This ram lex like it hasn't been touched in decades. This might not be surprising for a very old castle you had is. It is different from the rest of the balloting. Have rooms have been kept. Clean and neat asked i. Someone makes a home hair at is impossible is intent the townspeople say. It hasn't been inhabited centuries. A musty encourages to leave the kitchens behind. You make your way out at all. That stands beside the launch faster star. It brings you to what may once have been the dining room on no plates foam on the long wooden table. That runs town the sun but every place has been sat with a single corden copeland strutted with rubies. Perhaps the last people to hand finished with a trink can think of no other explanation. The baffi of strange owner cops as you stand considering this unusual play setting you sound fighting you listen cliff say and can just make out. The samba nerds of can music emanating from a distant room. You follow the strains of the music down another long corn which dead ends into a torn spiral staircase it wraps around a pillar of stone so every time is obscured from view the steps a had our physical early as amount one by one in this space the candles previously against the stone around you earn shatter percents up staff. The darkness cursing in behind. You as you look at. The top of the stairs is a small landing with space only a single room. wooden door. Your entry to this corner of the castle the courts of the music louder and it is clear in this room. Is that point of origin. You try to pull on the thick metal handle shaped like a ring. But the doesn't you try to rush instead added went give way united states tiny key home cut into the metal above the handle. Perhaps you need a key to think patch. You haven't seen one lying around in any of the rooms. You bend down toward the key horn and press your face against the coup metal of through the home you can make out and i met display of candles on a multi. Tiered rack inside the room. Thou wax has melted and dripped downer. Creating a fast moving water for suspended from the i. N. holda behind them. Happy of crimson. Catton's tight shot across the window aside. The candle stands and organ. It's ivory colored keys. Shine in the candlelight as you watch the keys depress themselves in a mysterious fashion. It looks to you as the instrument. His playing itself hops at his one of those trick player pianos. That's entertained curious. Crowds in days of old at the corner of your fear. See what looks to be a long wooden fox. It doesn't seem as heavy as a check as light as a crane it's phone land is obscured either at each of the key hor and there is no way fee to get a better wont a strange room. He thinks dozens of candles. And then you realize you can toss have nearly away more like stumps of gray now and the tune wide. Stay at the start. It's time to be heading back. He thinks the sun is likely sat by now and the last light of dunks is the tremaine you would like to make it down to the river. Four night shrines. The hill entitled darkness. You back down the twisting tons of the stack to the long corridor. There is a space with the mirror to the dining room wet. Oh coppola lined up in neat you cross back through the musty old kitchen to the first horn where he found the candelabra. You'll leave it on the wooden table just in case anyone else follows in your footsteps and needs it to you as you make your way to the front door. Take a quick glance at the pack on. Wasn't there clerk hanging when you fast arrived now. All the packs empty. Perhaps you just imagined it after on. Nobody lives hair in the castle. You town yourself you leave through the toll and find yourself back under the dusky sky. The sun has crossed an neath. The horizon the only light left is the deep harrowing comb of oncoming night. Off in the distance can see the flat white desk the moon beginning at sacked into the evening sky. You pass between the row of matto torch halters and around the stand of pines to the wrought iron and they are still slightly ajar just the way you left them. You slept through the eye opening in the once. You are on the other side. The gained creeks shut. It is this though the castle. Spitting you Well it would not do to lingga on this hill any longer. If think you walk back down the forest path past the fallen self a fire and the latest trees that hang like cotton down the ham to the grassy fans and the place why the pa comes to an end. That's the river aca toward the castle clutching to the house. Side above the trees a solid harry flaps and a soccer above the highest tart its outline against era essence mood the fridge atkins e anti cross back into town. He make your way through the square and up a small cobblestone street to belting why you have a room cry the norwich staff and reach the brown own which leads inside to your place. France you take off your shoes and and hanging kathleen on her hind the tall. It's just a moment before he changed into your night clouds and a ready. Climb into your bag which pace so in there looking out. I have a town house. You lay your head resting on the soft pella case out at the house which his checks physical frame after it is now fully night. Outside upright man hangs in the sky and casts polyglot across the landscape were off in the distance. Who can just make the flecha canton. And i win there at the castle as drift off and dressed sleep Ooh Ooh ooh ooh Ooh Whoa whoa ooh

emrich harry castle rimet fort star hunkin orange pathak Esat ion hingis iann stein coned stern catton Elizabeth elizabeth aca fork hammond stein Nafta tan ge thomas
Meeting Federer Djokovic Serena Tsitsipas in person : Fans share their personal stories

TennisPAL Chronicles

1:17:37 hr | 1 year ago

Meeting Federer Djokovic Serena Tsitsipas in person : Fans share their personal stories

"Happy Holidays everyone. Thanks for tuning into this special edition of Tennis POW. Chronicles the PODCAST. Feed your passion for all things tennis and boy. Do we have a lot of passionate share? It's the off season and we're gearing up for twenty twenty but we thought it would be so nice for each of our tennis pal friends to share their tennis love as holiday greeting cards from all of us to you. Yep I've asked our fan favourite reporters to share their personal story. Why they love tennis why? They are huge fans of their favorite players and those miracle moments when they've actually met their inspirational. Heroes Federer Djokovic Serena and more so get cozy pull up a blanket near the holiday hearth and enjoy this collection of tennis love letters. Hey everyone it's Valerie Garcia. You may also know me as the Co host of Tennis Powell. Chronicles podcast or the Serena Williams fan favorite reporter little back round on me. I am from southern California born and raised the greater Los Angeles area I currently reside in this wonderful little town called. Would they nestled near West Covina and Baldwin Park? Not that many people play tennis in my city or neighboring cities so it's sat on one hand but it's also very nice because courts are very rarely taken. I grew up in a town called Walnut. Which is about fifteen minute. Drive from. Currently live and tennis's really popular in that city. So every time I would try and play tennis over there courts were always really full. See how to get there really early or play in the middle of the day. My tennis story is. I don't know kind of strange. I guess I knew of tennis. My whole life Up At a neighbor who was much older than me. He's like a father figure and he always watched tennis and so I always associated tennis with him but I never really watched tennis. I played in high school not on a team but from like P. E. and so. I was familiar with the sport and some of my friends would play on the weekends just for fun but it was three four times a year and it was usually just totally messing around. I feel like I ran into sport in a kind of a random. `Way I'm not proud of it but it's my story and it got me superindent tennis as shallow as this sounds. I was working at blockbuster video if you guys remember That should tell you about how old I am and there was a G. Q. Magazine and it had the picture of Martina Hingis on the cover and I was like Whoa. Who is that really pretty lady and seeing the cover of the magazine attracted me. I wanted to find out who the person was on the cover and I started reading that it was a tennis star and then all of a sudden I was like well. I kind of am really interested to see how she plays tennis. And so I actually started watching only the W ta and I mostly would watch all of Martina Hingis his matches. I think I caught onto tennis around. She had already won two or three Grand Slams. At that point it was right about the middle of her reign and Maybe a year before the Williams sisters pretty much came in and knocked her out of contention. she was still doing lots of battles with the older people on circuit like Steffi Graf and Lindsay Davenport was was real strong back in the day Jennifer Capriati had her comeback and was doing very well Justine Henin Kim. Clijsters all all of these wonderful names and I just really got into the W. T. and what I find really funny. And maybe somebody can relate or maybe people think. I'm crazy back in the day. I remember they would like on. There was no tennis channel. It was played on like ESPN Or Channel Four for the majors and if the men and the women were playing at the same time a lot of times like I'd be watching a women's match and then the men would start like Pete Sampras or Andre Agassi or something and they would stop the women's match input on the men's match and I remember getting so mad like I just WanNa see the women's match you know when Serena I came on the scene as Martina Hingis Fan. I actually did not root for her or like her. I was very angry that she came on the scene because she kept beating Hingis and it was ruining all my dreams. But then as I started to get to know Serena And their story her and Venus how they came up from my backyard Calmed in which is in southern. California and just her talent and then I started to learn a little bit more about her as a person she like plays guitar. She's really interested in learning other languages. there were there. Were just some key little things that kind of attracted me into learning more about her and then of course he retired and I was like great like now. I'm free to just root for Serena and she just got more bad ass more bad ass and So why wouldn't I root for the American hometown girl So I just really jumped in headfirst into supporting her. She hasn't been an easy person to support. That is for sure. She likes to cause some controversy Sometimes I would believe that. It's not really her fault and other times. I'm like I mean it's like Oh come on Serena you know like why are you acting like that but I think as a human you know she's just human and she makes mistakes and I am certainly Appreciative of her. Willingness to own up to where mistakes and grow as a person and One of the things I really love is that she was to kind of get past. Forgive Indian Wells For the traumatic experience their way back when I dunno sixteen seventeen years ago and came back and again because I'm from southern California that is my nearest tournament and it also is coincidentally the best tournament. There is on tour and so so happy that her Venus came back I love going out there and screaming my head off for them to make them feel like they made the right decision to come back. I have never met Serena however Our Ross doll fan favourite reporter Nicholas he and I went to the two thousand nine. Us Open and we were being bad. We actually Were sneaking around the grounds smoke looking for a place to sneak a cigarette because In New York the US Ta Billie Jean King Center there. It is a no smoking campus. Nowhere on there. Can you go and smoke and we you know I have since quit so pat on the back for me however back then I was. I was still a slave to the nicotine and we went looking for a place to hide and sneak a cigarette and we went and talked behind like Louis Armstrong and we were sitting there smoking and like hidden in these bushes. Were no one could see us and who comes. Walking through was a Serena and Venus they had just finished a doubles match and they were taking like a back pathway to their press conference and they happen just like walk right by us and we were like. Oh my God. Oh my God there's Serena and Venus and I don't remember exactly because I kind of got so excited I probably like blacked out a little bit but I did like yell like Oh my God I love You Serena. You're my hero and she looked at us and waved and she was really nice and that was my one moment of almost meaning. Your ideas definitely much more of a watching tennis fan than a tennis player. I do play. I have a lot of tennis gear. I have the ball machine. I have the works And I go out and I probably play like five to eight times a year which is not very much I probably average like every six weeks. I'll go out and hit some balls with somebody I used to play a lot more when I was younger. And I guess As I got older people started my friends started. Having families and people didn't have time so we stopped playing regularly and then. I didn't play for many years and actually People probably think that. I'm just saying this but I really do rely on the tennis pal APP to find people to play tennis with so recently like probably the past six months the eighty percent of the Times that I've played tennis is with somebody that I find on tennis. Tennis PAL APP. I could find somebody who has a similar skill level as I have and someone. That's around me and it has a little messenger on there so we just message and arrange and then we play I find that to be really cool. If there's one thing maybe in my twenty twenty that I'd like to do more and I'd love to play more tennis and always watch more tennis because who doesn't want to watch more tennis I I love nothing more than to watch a five or six hour. The doll joke of match. It is in my opinion. The best thing there is about sports and I could see why I guess some people would not want to sit in front of a TV for six hours and watch a match but for me. It's like the best thing in the world. My jaws literally like on the floor there the entire time they're playing. I cannot believe the shots that they're able to come up with and how they're able to play so long. But anyway I will be done rambling now. I hope that If you are a tennis fan I really hope that you enjoy our podcast. And we're always looking for new subjects to talk about so if you guys have ideas or things you want to hear about always here to listen to that type of thing Because we want to talk about the things you WanNa hear I know for me. I can't wait to hear the other. Fan favourite reporters Discussion on this. How they found tennis why they loved tennis. Why they love the person they love etc Because this is a podcast to feed your passion for all things tennis so those who are passionate about tennis. I have to imagine we all want to hear it. We all WanNa talk about it. We all WANNA listen In tune in so thanks for listening guys and have a happy holiday and a happy New Year. And we'll catch you in twenty twenty. I hope that the Australian opens fantastic by this is from Bosnia ahead of you knew me as a person who doesn't report normal joke but this is a special. Christmas podcast theory. Have to talk about ours allow allowed for our favorites status players in my case about Nola. I hope that this will help you get to know me better. Well you already know that I come from Bosnia a small country in Europe. I'm a bachelor of journalism in. Maitree reap has always been to be a sport journalist. I hope that they eat will come through. I twenty five years old and I was born during the war. I don't remember anything because I was a baby but I so the cause acquaintances. I was bored in the small town that now has less than forty thousand inhabitants. Thanks to the war by friends. Me May be do have a pillar from bigger countries head but we were so happy and that would entail by todd. Who'd for anybody else? You are probably asking yourself why I'm telling you this well. War destroys everything and really adds country says cities legal lot of time to recover the especially spoiled downs. Don't have enough money to recover soon and because of that you'll have enough opportunities. The first time I stepped the police court was when I was sixteen. Seventeen years old that here. The first steady score was made in my hometown. You can imagine my happiness because I spent here. Send the Earth's fourteen Joe Cohesion TV and dreaming about at least training this sport and when I finally got the Trans I took it. I came to the first reigning naive. Thought that maybe I had a talented hidden somewhere deep in me and of course. I didn't have it evenly five hundred. It will sleeping so tight without any possibility to be woken up at that date. The only thing I was good at was Sir I was hitting aces but of course against beginners like meat. But I wouldn't have the history if it wasn't for my favorite sport and they're not of each and it's time to tell you everything about my admiration and love for him. Everything started in two thousand six. That was the I saw your coach for the first time on. Tv He was playing. He read the final and lost a steady covering after retiring. Because of the breathing problems. He was so sad and that was my first heart attack caused by him. Islas. Eleven years. Sold I knew that he was going to be my childhood hero. The legs aboard the letter that I remember as if it was yesterday was in two thousand seven but joke which phone Miami his first day deep. Yvonne Thousand Master Steidl. He played against Candice Endeavor that match with my sister and that almost without blinking. It was nerve wracking. My Dad told this boys so smart and he will be the world number on as we all know he was so right next year. Two thousand nate was when our nation realized that we have someone special the place where the birth of the new world wide known tennis hero to place was in billboard strengthen open joke which played incredibly great he defeated feather in the semifinals and song. The final. This match was of the greatest. Reporters serves all the streets in Serbia and Republican. Serpska vibe. The everybody lie in front of the TV sprague as sending positive with too low. Yes we'd go. That could help. Hit Edit worth in the AD. We were happy we were proud. He won his first Grand Slam. Deisel Book Negotiate. Your kickable seeks march. Two thousand intent by sister and me got to see a hero for the first time in Belgrade on Davis Cup. I'm telling you the exact date because on the same day few years later we got to meet for the first time. But I'll tell you more about it later in two thousand eleven. We went to Serbia to watch Davis Cup lettuce again. Had for the first time in our lives we were so close to let that we could ask for the autograph and decide Serbia flag. The happiness we felt was at every single doc said the message we got that precious author view of cry beating. Joe Coach was the greatest dream. My sister and me of a head. We were praying for that all the time but next few years made us team that our dream would never come through. We went to Davis carpet is whenever it was played in Belgrade but we never got traffic to meet him. It seemed that every single fan took a photo with him but low tasks and then everything tailed on the march seeks. Two Thousand Sixteen. Serbia played against Kazakhstan. After Saturday. Serbia down through two one on Sunday. Nola play the match for two. It was the most intense maitree seen live. It lasted almost five hours though. Have Health problems. His team doctors for tally to retire but he kept fighting. Every cheery ESLAVA this record. He was fighting for his life depended on the result of that bet and he wants. Everyone was on their feet to give these heroes standing ovation. The greatness of the greatest of all time back to the court after that he failed to the France started leaving the court but if we turned blue the keys in our direction that moment beat all the previous happy. Bluebirds arise after the stadium. We decided to wait for a of the addresses and try to meet him. Once again became las we were at the end of the security fest. We were waiting there fall. Most our indeed seemed like he was not going to come out there but they'd come south. He starts walking in our direction. He's from us but he does. He's back he could see. People are screaming trying to follow bullets that he was so close glass but he buzzed by flesh. Follow is Adele goes maybe next time but sadly he does his head he sees us he comes to us with a huge smile on his face and Healy's over the fence hugs Hit told US few types. Thank you for the support. Thank you for the support and all we could say was thank you thank you. It was one of the most important moments of our lives. You're waiting for that for more than five years. And then it happened and the he recognized us thought that we were dreaming. That was very sisters and my story of meeting the greatest but I still haven't Gold Uvira love at the buyer dog Joe Kovic first of all because of his heart and the way he looks at live. He's such a great inspiration to everybody especially to children. He was born in the small country very teddy supposedly portent but he had a dream a he takes it. He didn't give up. Even the odds were against him showed that it is important to have a goal in needed if it look surreal to others. It's possible if we believe in it also love the way. He helps children in Serbia. I love the way he treats his fans. I love the fact that he'll remain humbled. I love the fact that he cares about education that he never stops learning. Also families of is a priority his life and that's probably what admire the most the thirteen year of supporting dog joke. Richie's coming to lead at all I know is that I will always be by his side. Low at the whole I get. My admiration for display will disappear. I'm glad I lived his era. Happy that I'll be able to talk about his two children. That was my story. I hope you like it and I wish you all the very Christmas happy New Year and I hope that you will keep listening to our porn high all its Fianna from Australia and fan for Roger. Federal for the past year on and off. I just want to say thanks to fill up and Valerie full putting together such a fun. Podcast it's really nice to be a part of it and also really great to listen to say. Thank you for that and so for this special Christmas episode. I'm just going to talk a little bit about myself. And why I love tennis and Wild Love Roger Sir Festival. I'm based in Melbourne Australia at the moment and I've really been living here for a few months but as you know. It's the home of the Australian Open so I've just tried to use that to my vantage and use the facilities as much as I can. So that's a really cool thing about the Melbourne Park facilities actually are accessible to the public with the membership. So since I've lived here I've had a lot of fun being able to use the colts that Some really great players have used including Raja. So I just play tennis socially at the moment so I was doing coaching Here in the for a little bit but I never started playing tennis at a young age which I do sort of regret because I know my skills could have developed much quicker if I started young but right now I'm just trying to fit it in where I can and use it on to stay active and use it to big better coordination. Just screw my skills and technique where I can and it's really fun. I probably play about once a week. Now which is not as often as I'd like to and I just play with friends who are available so my favorite player is obviously Roger Federer and He has been my favorite since the very beginning. I think I always say It's his and his personality and his humbleness and who he is a person that really make me like obsessed with him but again his tennis ability is something like unlike anything else like. Just imagine in any field in life. You're as good as you are as him at tennis. It's just mind blowing because to specialize in something and do it. That well is not an easy fate and I think he's just. He's made it so graceful throughout his entire creole. I can only ever respect that and even growing up in like going through the difficulties of full-time wack going through studying. And all of this not having him as an inspiration to look at someone who works hot. Who has natural talent but it works to make it better and better and really just loves what they do like that is a really good starting points to To look up to you and I think I've always just had him in my life to to be a hero and a God that has been aspiring and inspiring. So I think I've followed Russia for probably it's been since two thousand nine when I I watched him so that was pretty late in his career. I know like some people have been watching since four three but I really started late so in two thousand nine. I was probably teen years old something like that fourteen years old and I just watched tennis here and now like I watched the strain ever on TV. Because I grew up in Australia and tennis is always on during summer and not covered like so much during the year but definitely during some I. It's like a big things. Just sit down and watch tennis and two matches if you can and so I used to just watch it on TV with my whenever possible. I remember watching him cry when he didn't win in two thousand nine and my sister liked. Rafeh issues pretty happy but I was like. Oh look at that guy like he cares about this sports much. He's crying unbelievable. He better win next year and I already knew like who Roggio was. But I wasn't super obsessive test. I wasn't falling sports so closely and also never really big sports fan of any sport until I started watching tennis and so two thousand nine went on. I try to watch like like a little bit of tennis but again it wasn't that accessible on all still pretty young and then I think really like from two thousand ten two thousand eleven was when I've really really became obsessed and I wouldn't miss a match and out watch everything like at four whether it was up four in the morning twelve in the afternoon. I'LL TRY TO FIT IT in with my studying and yeah I really found it so easy to be so not not obsessed like that sounds insane but I think like a really dedicated to seeing him succeed and whenever he won. I felt happy whenever he lost. I felt sad. It was like a shed emotion and to make it even better all the community online who also felt like sadness and happiness when he won a lost made. It feel like a like. You'll never learn when you're watching him play and you and I really felt like I was part of something bigger than just watching some guy on record. I felt like like in Sport. Like you can feel all the range of emotions and all the range of negative emotions to really like bad is what's got me super addicted to tennis back in two thousand ten and definitely by two. Qasim Eleven. I was all the way in deep and I've been watching him really closely sin. So it's all being in the later part of his career but I'm really glad and really lucky that are still being able to say a lot of successes and failures true too but really glad with I've been able to be part of the journey and that he's still playing at the capacity is even at this stage in his career so then in two thousand twelve. I started attending tournaments as much as I could so I was still in university by then actually I was in my final year of school and then I is dotted university off to that so my schedule was flexible enough to be able to go to the Australian Open every year. Which was the closest tournament? Me Believe it or not and then later on when I had saved up enough to travel I would have tried to go to all the tournaments. But I'll get into that later so the first one ever went to was two thousand twelve Australian Open. I just watched federal and dull trading Lakota finals and Roger One in straight-sets. I remember it was a day. Much in Rod Laver arena and I was like hedging my bets with the tickets and I didn't know whether he'd played day or night and in two thousand twelve. It was still a toss up. I think these days. He'll definitely get the net session. I was lucky enough out any board day session ticket and I only went to the tournament for three days and one of those days was his quarter and I I went into the arena. Just felt like it was holy ground because also young and also excited to finally say like my idol in person. I am sure anyone who has the same federal play live can resonate a little bit with the ceiling but also because my emotions all over the place like olive crying with happiness and then he won and he made it to the semi's even better but as you guys know like moving forward in that tournament he lost her Tabatha in the semi's in in three sets anyway. We'll forget about that. So those assessed helmet ever watched federal play live and then from then on so from two thousand twelve two thousand nineteen. I have gone to seven consecutive Australian opens. So I mean it's a very expensive hobby but I wouldn't do it for anyone else and I think it's worth it to watch. Russia play because he has been such a big part of my life and I always thought this might be his last year. This might be his last year but it never was. I made it to seven and we're still going so then I watched him play live and also when you go to tournaments you can sort of be lucky enough to get close enough to make the plays so on that two thousand twelve tournament. I remember how the practice caught schedules to see the players. Want publicized everywhere. But I did some research and try to find like what time Roger would be somewhere where he would be and of course like hundreds of other people tried the same thing and a lot of people were like seasoned veterans and they knew exactly where to go. I looked up the information and I found him like in the middle of like thirty six degrees Celsius day on like court seventeen. Eighteen like out at the stone open practice caught in the middle weekend of the tournament so it was really really crowded. And but I was like Pretty Young. Small-sized could squeeze in to the fronts. But but actually I was waiting for a few hours anyways. I had a spot at the front that I was waiting full and I was lucky enough to say human practice like on my side of the fence and and then actually after he practiced on that day he came over and signed autographs hours like screaming crying. And I actually I. It wasn't that that I'll just like a little bit emotional and then I could see him full first time and I think I just asked him like little. You sign my ball plays and then he did it and I just said thank you so much and maybe like I said I loved you or something funny like that could have been the first time I met him. I think like everyone's practice meeting stories. Probably quite similar because you actually get like ten full seconds with him. You just like a minute. He walks pasta and he keeps going. I mean not a minute. It's actually just one second and he keeps going but then ever since then like just to be able to have access to players that closely is really nice. I really liked watching how he practiced up close to so I think I kept going back to the tournament for that part and also like the fans you made a really sweet as well and then after a while it just becomes a ritual so I have been lucky enough to meet him a few more times in my life as well I Sounds bad but actually lost count. Because it's being maybe like ten times because in two thousand thirteen I went back to the strand open fourteen and fifteen miles out the streto to and then in two thousand and sixteen same and then seventeen I actually went to Hoffman cop to see him play at the beginning of the year. I think that was the first one hundred ever went to where I saw him elsewhere aside from Melbourne out except for in two thousand fourteen I also went to an exhibition match that he played in Sydney and serve then all the apart from others times here and then Australia in two thousand seventeen ulcer managed to go to hell and Wimbledon for the first time so that was the first time I ever travelled to watch tennis and it was really the best tunnels my life. It was incredible just seeing Wimbledon in person as well but by then like I had already been like five years into going tournaments so I had like a bit of a tactic of how and where I can find him and maybe even like his team recognized me after all that time so then I think I what I went to Halley like. He's actually pretty comfortable at her. It's really easy to meet him as well. And he's in it's not a it's not a grand slam. So he's not as he's not he's still focus but he's not in that super super tenses that he needs to be for slammed so he will stop and talk a little more and so. I met him there as well and the hats like the best meeting I've ever had with him was on New Year's Day in two thousand seventeen at the hotline cop. He came at seven to practice on some way out of the way court in Perth in the middle of hot hot summer so it was seven pan. Those finally getting cool for the evening and I think he was hungover from like the thirty first of December and then he had about fifty people at that court because no one knew he was practicing and it was just like a local club but it was sponsored by the Haman Cup so then there were people who were like lining up waiting and all the plays would've watched him practice that to you and then I we watched in practice. I can't believe he actually showed up at the end. He was stopping and talking and taking time in meeting. Everyone and I was able to go down some stairs and talk to him and shake his hand my arm on his shoulder and take a picture. I was really really sweet. The first time I met Roja up close and puzzle I had more than maybe five seconds. was really really special to me and I'll always remember that and then since then from tournaments I've attended here in the I think he is able to sort of recognize my face which I'm really lucky to say overall I just want to say. I wish that everyone has the opportunity to one day. Get close enough to watch their favorite athlete. Play live or even just See Them Practice. In some capacity. It is really a wells of difference from watching them on. Tv I it is completely Not Exemplary of how they really do play when you see them on. Tv as compared to live like it's just unreal so Yes so in my experiences. I've been really lucky. Just having a lot of big tournaments likely and then Traveling just a little bit as much as I can to say the players except then that's it. That's all I have to say about my personal experience with my favorite playoff and I think If anyone has questions you can always read. Tat's me on twitter about it. I do share a lot of the Meeting meetings and fun. Times that I have on there just Reach out my twitter is federal roaring so then I just want to wish everyone a merry Christmas as well and a happy new year and say a big. Thanks again to fill up and Valerie and all the other fan favorite reporters for older hardware and have a great year in two thousand twenty as well and will catch you. Then maybe thank you bye guys is crystal. And I'm basically to tell you guys about the story of why I fell in love how I fell in love with tennis basically and how I fell in love with different tasks as well. So let's start right at the beginning If you guys don't know I am from New Zealand. Which is an island nature? Strata a live in Wellington which is the capital of New Zealand. We have obviously parliament. Is there so we've got a building called the Beehive? Which is amazing. Pretty cool differently should visit and there's also a lot of nature's Wildlife Reserves in Wellington. These beach is beautiful. Beautiful place to come visit. However being from Wellington I did grow up in Oakland which is where my love of tennis release spawned and flourished. I guess you could say and Oakland is like the cultural hub of New Zealand. The Sky Tower is sailing the dolphins and all those types of things that we get to experience lot they lots of beaches. Lots of beautiful nece. But there's also the tennis stadium where they hold the New Zealand tennis tournament as well as an ATP to fifty and a WTI tournament as well. So that's where our story begins basically so being from growing up North Oakland. Obviously my parents were watched. The USTRALIAN opened January and the Dose Awards New Zealand tournaments. I'd new nothing about tennis when I was younger. I just watch. Tv At all. I did but tennis was something. That was always intriguing. I loved a sport but Tina's was the one that I was like. Wow this is pretty cool like they hitting a ball back and forth over time this intense like this is really cool and something that we did all the time like it would stop in January and then obviously you'd have. Maybe the Davis Cup tournaments that we're on the TV sometimes and then you'd move onto the French Open the The SUNSHINES LAMBS. Lynnwood go the French Open. And then we'll do in the US Open's Orascom like all yield effect on the Longwood record. Everything making sure she was watching Raffles. All breath has matches and everything that and there was great like it was very interesting and then we started going to Auckland tournament the ATP fifty. And the w take WTO tournament as well so we started going there every summer for maybe a day and between one day each of the weeks to see the men and the women. So we'd go there and watch and just loved loved working day you'd get dressed up. Get HATS. We'll get are nice. Clothes for the tenors. And there was just fun. Just have a good day and there was so much fun I loved and just watching the matches and at the. At he at the Auckland match is we have like signs and posters. You can read signs for the players and then you can sign them at the end and it took me years to figure out that we could do until recently but it was much. I loved it. I guess at School. They introduced a program as well so When I when I first started college who high school. I didn't really play tennis until I was way older. I was more into it as I got older in high school. So near the individual bets. When I was really getting into tennis I think it was the time around. Net curio when Nick Curios Internacional. Didn't shapoval love those guys check. Salk may were really starting to get good in the ATP and they're being more permanent and making sure beer games are being felt. That's when I started getting tinsels only. This is new. I don't need to watch the old assist people in my generation that award that played tests so this is interesting towards me. That's how I more focused on the Angus. The new next Gen of the tennis world. So I started really into tennis and I was like okay. Let me stop planted us so at school I played tennis for the sum amounts which was fun even played competitively. I just trained our tennis. Karcher scoop he was into tenants. He had the Australian Open Boards. He had the Australian Open Tana's bags. It was fine and everyone would bring our kids would just hit the ball and it was just me and my friends would never play competitively. We just played for fun and it was good fun and even at home or pilot parents with my siblings. It was just for fun like never none of us actually like our parents knew virtually put us into tennis. Listen I feel like I was a too old for that stage and I wouldn't have probably loved but it was still fun. Pledged sometimes two women dead. We just the bull around and she's good exercise enjoy and that's all we love to do. So that's how I got into tennis. Played high school a little bit. Just follow you train to high school and then we also into this tournament as I got a little older. I wanted to be a ball girl so bad however I was a bit too old and plus I never played for club so that was the restriction but I could volunteer at the tournament so ever since I was old enough. Let's say about the grades and the US high school system flowers like sixteen fifteen when I started volunteering and I volunteered for five years at the tournament in Auckland Tournament. Barth I did both. Wg A week and the men's week so it was real financial so many players Venus Williams. I claim I saw around the grounds to and that's like got really talked to them. But it's great seeing them so it was kind of like the little excitement that I go and kind of shock. You get when you see these people and like wow like is this really the am. I really standing in today standing in front of someone that I love and I've seen on TV. So much when Serena was there even bid it was so like so exciting and then stiffen actually came to this tournament as well. I think in the last year volunteering. He was there and I never. I actually never saw him on the ground. I would always see figure move vigorously his dad his dad all the time but I never saw him which was always frustrating to me so it was the way it was supposed to be but I would just kids. Always like Oh. He must be close when I saw his dad. Like just the excitement and everything about it. It was so fun it was just a great place to be and it was introduced me to so many things that I have now that So interested in tennis and like we are from all around the globe. The people who volunteer at this tournament coming from a lot of different places. I remember there was an Argentinean. That was there sometimes and there were people who were going away to us is colleges. It was a great place to be all these different people. Different not necessarily goes but all these different people from all over New Zealand all over the world who came just to help out and volunteer at this tournament. And just talk about tennis and it was great so it was a great way to meet friends and a highly recommend volunteering. It's the best thing in the world and it was the best thing I did for five summers so I was really the highlight of eventually and yes so opted that it was just so much fun and we just head farm. And since since I saw Steph the tournament. That's not worth a live with him. I knew him from a year before so when I run at the tournament. That's when I was really invested in stiffness. I was in full difference train so that was how I do not meet him. But it's a slow defied the reason that I like him today so the story of how I fell in love grew to love. Stiffen Paths. Hasn't player as a person and just in general is university where? I started university university stocks as we all know that is the toughest thing in the world and I would watch tennis in my spare time following tennis. My favorite tennis place. I loved Alexander's varies dominant theme of poverty. Law of curiosity. The nuncio cannot has those are my favorites at the time. Stephanos was not on the radar at all until maybe the end of the year when I finished. My fiftieth stiffness came about me. Watching tennis may just looking at the tennis APP seeing. Who's on the draw? Lewis people and I just kept on saying this net. Tibet's the best best. It depends like this guy so then I started googling during my research I found the Nasional Nagas and I was like okay interesting and then I went to his twitter provence like oh. I've actually seen him before. The Nasi went to Greece because he's a Greek Australian. They wouldn't he wouldn't degrees. He played an exhibition against Stephanus. Oh this the same. I started putting the dots to give away. Those guys actually good so then from then on I can just like Kipton I opposite Stevens ever really like committing watches for games and then I think it was the end of the more around. The October 's may be getting into November. When Stefano sided. He played his best eighteen inch. And that was the one that I was like. Argh I'm here for this I am so happy for it. He is an exciting player. He's very different. And then it was the first year of Milan. Also but Stephanos didn't qualify. He played an exhibition match against various. Because variable wasn't playing he was playing and he played London on procedural so they played an exhibition match. I watched that as well and it was. It was very good. I enjoyed the matches and I was like okay. This guy this rivalry what they've got going on here. Something that needs to be watched so from then on. I was kind of committed and then folded into that summer going into that summer in January when he was announced he was playing in Oakland. I was like get at sold however before that in December because Stevens was just here to youtube channel so his youtube channel. I was a follow up as soon as I found out. All his social media I was following so he did like youtube live videos and he would just talk and do questioning like he does now and like he does on instagram. Live as well. He did those early on in the beginning of his career and I was watching them. And then he's like and then people would ask questions so people would be like one of the tournament's who like to play and he's like Auckland. Maybe being from Oakland I was like please Lord please let him come here. Please please please please whatever happens. Please let him be because this is the last time I was volunteering so like I miss him now. I won't ever see him again. The day was announced that he was coming to Auckland. My heart I could have like I didn't know if I wanted to scream agenda for when I was like linking shore. I was roasted all volunteering every day of the event but he showed that I had my tickets to the tournament and everything was ready to go. Because I was committed. I was so committed to seeing him to meeting him. Firstly also committed to meeting him and then the next thing was also committed to watching him play. The only thing I did see I did watch match and that was probably the best thing that I saw. It was so exciting. He played a very good match. And the loss. You don't win the tournament I think. Hey got to see around often. Which was the other thing that he wanted to do like. He's heard about it before and so he went sightseeing and stuff like that. So that was nice and just knowing your favorite player is enjoying being in your city was just an experience like I love my city. I love or Clinton I love it. I love Arlington to bought him enjoying being home. Batsmen me if I love. This is a good city. We live in a good place. And you know DIFFERENCE LOVES TO TRAVEL. And he has all those blogs he logged about. Oakland as well so that may be so excited and probably watch. They've Lanka Thousand. Times to be honest and it's probably one of my favorite flocks. Always look out. Oh this is this place step last must have seen this and you must have seen that it was just like the excitement is like so I was like a the acting I it was just so much fun and seeing him play like I did. Silent like usually in metres on like yelling and cheering. But not this time I was did silent. Just make sure I take all of it in. I was taken lots of photos at all the photos today. Oh just I was. We were sitting pride at the top. You go sit in the prime seat so you have to sit in the really rooftop scenes the rooftop so we were saying they're trying to fall down and encourage down and we were trying to watch in silence as possible and I was taking as many as they can but it was probably the best memory I have of the summer. Just seeing him Pie. That was the only thing that was the best thing that made my thumb and the rest of my ear to be honest. And since then as we now I have been an avid fan like I love him. He's my favorite tennis player in the whole wide world and. I don't think I would be the person I am today. If it wasn't for being introduced him he has such a unique way of just talking and his thoughts and opinions on everything a very unique and so different and I just love that about him and it's honestly like I don't think there's a tennis player ever that's like him to his success and honestly it's so good as a fan like I think every fan favorite reporter has had an opinion when they favorite doing. Well it's just like your heart. Your heart glows. But you just feel so proud of the V. amount of tweets. I have seen tout say. I'm so proud of him this past year. All the tournaments that he's gone and all the things that he's accomplished i. I could be millionaires by now to be honest with you. So it's just so good to see that and I'm sorry. Patted him so incredibly Pat Him? And if I ever need him face to face conversation with Stephens I would just tell him how proud I am of him and I would tell him to keep going to keep doing what he's doing because he is different and different is good. Sometimes and I love his logs and tell them to keep doing blogs or his movies all his funny tweets that we all laugh at like things that bring me joy and it's like some of the emotions that I feel when I see some of the things that he does wear watch him play or was in the prisoner of implying that the first time at like some feelings. You can't describe like your just thinking about it and you dislike. Wow I don't know there's nothing I could really say would do and I don't know how to describe this via in because for me it's undescribable and I'm pretty sure if I made him I I would probably fade. I just did silent and not say a word but then after and recovered. I'd probably say something so here. Merry Christmas to all happy holidays to all heavy tennis season to all twenty twenty and I hope to see you guys next year and keep talking to you guys about stiffened to pass. Thank you guys. The no catch you guys next year Heller TENNIS FANS AND EVERYBODY. Listening to this podcast. My name is Montana. I'm nineteen years old and on for Mobile Stralia as you can probably assume by my name. Montana. Tennis Connor runs in my blood because my parents a massive tennis fans and they were huge fans of Montana news who was at her peak at around the time I was born and they loved her so much that they named me after her true story. I was born and raised in Melbourne. And I have lived here for all my life. And if you're a tennis fan probably aware that Melbourne is the host of the USTRALIAN. Urban is the event of the SUMMA. Besides the Australian Open and the tennis in General Melvin is also home to many sporting events including the AFL. Which is the National Sport of Australia? I'm Melvin is also known for its cultural diversity eat which resonates in its food. Some of my personal favorite places to eat On the graph straight and unlike on street and my other favorite place to hang out in Melbourne is out for which is a three D. Interactive Arts Gallery with Actually looks three and people actually come there to not just look at the art but they actually be in the so. Those are my top spots to visit in Melbourne. If he does decide to come sir. Tennis is a sport that has essentially brought my family closer together. My Dad Stoop plays tennis. My grandpa used to play tennis and I played tennis when I was eight years old and played for five years. The reason why I quit playing tennis weekly was because I was committed to swimming which I started when I was five years old and I was really into water sports sir. I continue swimming and I quit tennis but I haven't quit tennis for above because I su- play sometimes with my friends which is fun because I have the skill set and the foundation to place or for my enjoyment and just for fun. I play with my friends. And it's such a good sport to be social with and it's such a good sport to just pick up and have fun with and I'm so glad I did it. When I was eight years old I went to watch the tennis live for the very first time and it was at the Australian Open in two thousand nine in the fourth round and the first ever male tennis much I watched was a match between Thomas Betty and Roger Federer and I would like to say that I have massive respect for Tomas bet each because he also had a massive impact on my love tennis because he was part of the first much I watched live and I would to say congratulations on an incredible career. He has changed so much and he deserved all the success that he got more and it was a disappointment. That injury had to stop his run but he is an incredible player and I just wish him a happy retirement. It's not like he's going to listen to this podcast anyways. But that's just what I want to say about Thomas. Like he's he's amazing And he was versing. None other than Roger Federer. This match was a much that essentially changed my perspective on tennis for ball because it was such an unforgettable match it was five cents Raja was down two sets to love and then somehow for back and one in five sets and I heard the stats. But I don't know how many times he has done that in his career being two sets to love down and then coming back and winning because it is the most incredible thing to say. And something really read. Watch because to be able to do that. You have to have a lot of five. And you have to have a lot of positivity and your mental strength must be like unfathomable to actually be able to become something like that and as an eight-year-old Look I. my tennis. Knowledge wasn't great. I mean I knew a little bit about it but I know I. I only focused on the physical capacity. That went behind. I didn't really focus on the mental strength. That tennis actually instills. Because I didn't know that. Oh it's not just about up being physically fit but it's about being mentally fit as well and I appreciate that unto. After I watched the match surge during the match I saw two players battling it out and at the end of the second set. I kind of lost her job because I knew Roger was. I didn't know Tomas Benjamin Thomas Berridge was at the time but I knew who roger was because my parents and everyone telling me about human stuff but and then after the second I just felt kind of deflated I was like. Oh no way. He's GonNa come back from this main. It's three sets in. It's over as if it's going to be five sets. The the weather was terrible. It was really hot. I was drenched in sweat. I was suffering and I was just sitting in this on let alone watching them play. It was just such a suffocating but then Roger Really surprised me the way that he came back from two sets love down nine. Amer managed to win in five sets and even in that year made it to the final Against the doll. It was two something I couldn't believe and at that point I started to follow him to look up to him and see that his mental strength is just something that is so incredible and something that I draw positively from Up until today. I'd my in first so many reasons so one for his fight. He's persistence and resilience like he sees positive. Positive things in everything. He couldn't lose the most awful match of his life. You know having had whatever championship points match points. He's Hudson brutalises. He's come so close so many times And for me personally if I was in his situation and if I had come so close to something and then get and then I get held back by something and sufficient for instance fail or make it. I think I would draw a lot of negativity from it. I would be really upset and it. Probably it's probably wallow my thoughts and keep thinking about something for a really long time but Roger is the complete opposite. I feel like he thinks about it and of course it affects him but at the same time I feel like he draws a lot of positivity in situations like that and I really admire him for that and in seeing what he does it kind of influenced how I saw alive sir. My perspective on things has is starting to change a little bit and I'm trying to do I'm trying to be more positive just like Raja. And that's why I kind of admire him in that sense the fact that he has such a strong mind and he can come back from anything. And that's the reason why he has been around for so long and he's long jetties essentially affected by his mental strength Another thing I admire about him is the his ability to stay grounded. He is a player who is decorated with stats and awards and wins in Grand Slams and hundred titles you name it and records and everything but the way he represents sport the way he respects all the players are the people around him. It just makes him really grounded person and the what's important to him is not you know playing tennis to break all these records and to win every single tournament out but it's more about being able to represent the sport while and being able to respect other players and respect everyone around him then And that's what I look up to as well. It's it's not about winning all the time but it's about being the best person you could be. And he is the perfect example of that and not only is he a talented player but he chose good sport and he is very very very diplomatic when it comes to presses he doesn't get frustrated and this comes from the fact that he's changed so much from when he was a child as well when he was a teenager. I mean sorry child when he was a teenager he was really bad tempered from what we understand. He threw his records and he had tantrums at the Pierre. But now we see him. It's like a complete three sixty. He's more calm. He's more collected and as I said he sees the positive things and he keeps calm in the important moments but then he still has desire to win and he still has the belief that he can do things and I think that's the most important mindset to have when you're playing a sport or when you're going through something in life so that is probably the reason why I look up to him so much. There are so many qualities in Roger Federer and from that day from the day I was a little eight year old girl watching him play a match up until now. I just see so many things that I could learn from him as a player and he's probably one of the athletes. I look up to if not probably my biggest idol ever. Yeah so I look up to quite a few people singers sports people you name it but Roger Federer is probably up there as one of my favorite people and most admirable table Sir at the Australian urban in two thousand eighteen and in two thousand nineteen. I was lucky enough to actually get some autographs and pictures with Roger Federer himself and it didn't come easy. I must say it took blood sweat and tears to actually get there sir. In two thousand eighteen I went to the practice courts and knew when he was practicing because normally before each practice session or at the side of the day they'd always release the practice schedule on the Israeli narping website. And it tells you what time the players practicing what caught practicing at Sir. I saw the schedule. And then me. My friend went and lined up before the gates even opened for into the grounds and we went as soon as they are have been. We went straight to the practice squad and stood there for hours and hours in the sun and when Roger came on we watched his practice session and then he started. He came over and he signed for us. And at that time I had a massive tennis ball with some tennis players signatures on it and the one that I was missing was Roger Federer so as he was going to sign I held out my bowl and I was at the front so invite up against the gate and standing in front of me was the the gate. It wasn't locked properly because it didn't have look Sir if anyone pushed than the gate would just open like there was no way of only to get I. I tried my best to hold. There was no looking on whatsoever and I'm not a very toll passing. I'm quite sure so I was the poet the shortest person in the forever and even at the time I was seventeen years old. I probably look twelve because I was just so short and I was getting wedged between everyone's on pits and it was a really and everything because as soon as Roger came over everyone started pushing thought. Merman. I feel like I blacked out because I had no idea what was going on. Everyone was pushing me. I was under someone else's armpit. My cat was off of my head. My son is half broken. Ribs were about to break. It was a horrible horrible feeling and I was just holding this tennis ball and I was struggling. And then what brought you came over? He kind of saw like everyone in the front row. Kind of getting crushed and I was telling security I was like. Can you please get these people to stop pushing? Because I'm trying to hold back this gate. Try Not to fool on Roger himself and everyone's just pushing and then Roger Federer saw what was going on and then he was like guys. Can you please stop pushing because if you keep pushing? I'M NOT GONNA sign guys anymore. And he stood back. We stood back and he looked pretty angry. And then people start pushing and I was able to breathe again and so I would like to say that federal as April ice in that remained was something very ugly with a really ugly scene. I didn't get to talk to him at all. I said thank you for signing the ball. Admitting he heard so I was like. That's a dream come true that he signed by tennis ball. Finally but let's make it a more positive maintaining the next time round so in twenty nine nine this this year. I want to the Australian Open again. The same thing I went to the ground before the gates even opened went straight to the tennis court. Where Roger was practicing ensued there for four hours and as soon as he came on he practiced and then he came and signed with ads. And this time. It was much more calm. Everyone was really respectful. I had a CAP which I've put around my head and I didn't really expect him to sign the cop but he did anyway. Which was I was like? Wow I didn't expect it. I just held hand and he just took it and signed it and then this time I got a further with him sir. All the people I saw just shove their fern his face and he kinda stopped and took a further. But I just felt like I need to ask so I asked. Can I please have a further with you and I got an so which I assumed that he met yes but at which he did because when I stopped with me and that I'll never forget Furry caveat quite terrible because I would have short arms and I should've gone to take it but I didn't because I was service hub short arms. Leila Hof my face was in the further and the rest was just Roger and broader. Wasn't even looking at the phone. A he was looking. I don't know where he was staring. He it didn't he was looking somewhere else. And but anyway it was due a memorable Merman because after that I went home and I saw that the ATP had actually filmed the moment of vans meaning Roger and the moment. I was meeting at the center of the video. So if you gotTa Chop Federa Melbourne practice session something on the ATP Youtube Channel. There was a moment the moment of me meeting him right there. Go wearing the yellow tation. So Yeah I saw that and I was like. Oh my God. The moment actually got captured on camera and I screen shotted that moment and that is now framed on my wall because that is something I will never forget. I mean I came to join open ten years prior watching him play for the first time and then ten years later little never ever would've dreamed of meeting him and actually taking a photo with him. I this time I actually said. Thank you and good luck for the next round and good luck for the rest of the tournament. I just wished him luck and he said thank you so that was as five acquisition wet but it was soon a massive dream country if I were to meet Roger Again. There are many things that I'd love to say to him but most importantly I'd probably say a massive. Thank you for being such an inspiration to so many people around the world young and old but especially youth like me. A lot of people look to Russia from such a young age. I've looked up to him since I was a nine year. Old Kid eight year old kid and of course many of my qualities come from what my parents have taught me and my parents have guided me to become the person I am today but it is important to be able to look up to a successful sports passive or musician or philanthropist or anyone that has been successful in life and Russia Federa is a perfect example of that His success in the sport is unsurmountable has changed so much and on and off the court as well and I'm more impressed with his off court work actually with his philanthropy. How he's able to reach out to so many people who are less fortunate than ourselves and being able to inspire the next generation of people to do the same thing to always give back to the community with what you have with the success. He's gained He's realized that he could make an impact and he could make a change to the community and he's able to do that in so many ways and I cannot describe how much how grateful I am to be able to look up to someone like that and his tennis is something that we may not ever see again in another player because he is such an unique player. His longevity is incredible. I don't even understand how he could play for that many years. He's thirty eight years old and he moves like a twenty five year old a I thought he was going to retire as well like everyone. I actually thought he was going to retire at the age of thirty two thirty three. Because that's the normal age that most tennis by retire but he shocked me by going beyond three and now. I can't believe I believe he can do anything he can probably play to the age of forty five. If you told me and I would probably still believe you so I would just say thank you to him for you know sticking on the tour and just still having that fire and the desire to win and that passion to play because he brings so much joy to everyone around the world. Whenever he plays tennis he just makes me happy. I Love Watching tennis as a sport in general but whenever he plays it's just a different feeling and to be able to see him. Play live was such an incredible experience. One that I will never forget Yeah and just to be able to sit courtside and in my school and my his fight and just an incredible sportsperson years is something that I will never ever forget so those kind of things I would tell him. Thank you for listening to this podcast. And my section on Roger Federer and this goes along to any chance playoff go with whoever you idolize and because tennis players are amazing people but my favorite just happened to be Roger Federer so yeah have a good day. I hope you've enjoyed this special holiday presentation of our tennis. France from all over the world share the same passion for tennis. Many thanks to Valerie Tanya Crystal Funen and Martina for sharing their stories if you want to join our tennis hall chronicles podcast as a fan favorite reporter email. Pk At tennis. Powell dot com or continue the conversation on social media at love set match on twitter and instagram especial. Thanks to holly in the whole Tennis Pal family for sponsoring this podcast visit Tennis Powell Dot Com for more information. Happy Holidays. Everyone see in twenty twenty with more passion for tennis and. May All your serves the aces.

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Federer Sidelined by Surgery - Curse or Blessing? Plus Rybakina's Rise & Halep's Heroics

The Tennis Podcast

1:01:17 hr | 1 year ago

Federer Sidelined by Surgery - Curse or Blessing? Plus Rybakina's Rise & Halep's Heroics

"Hi this is Marion Bartoli this Martina Navratilova. I'm mats wilander. This is Mary Carillo. I'm stunned Roy. Rinker I'm Andy Murray. And you're listening to the tennis podcast. Lunch Catherine Witty goes. That's what we've just had not made by Catherine but provided by Catherine and lovely was too. It's a lot like breakfast at tiffany's significantly less romantic tasty. It wasn't a very lovely exceptional. Yes okay so we've had that and Catherine's plumbing has has been done in the flats which we were concerned about noise wise but the the bathroom is being fixed. So everything's going well. Catherine's got the got the invoice to pay. Yes I was just going to give a shout out to the plumber but clearly are forgotten his name. And it's not on this invoice. Say he was a Frenchman and he was great tightened the washers both from taps excellent splendor. The toilet is back in action can serve drinks again and that hissing sound stopped with us. That have been going on since three. I am. I said to David. All the toilets back in action so I can eat hot drinks now. In David's face contorted in a in an amazing way. Well he tried to make sense of what I said. You'll I thought was the I was so saying the water. The cat from well. There's one of the possibilities turns out. It wasn't what actually happens in this. Okay folks as I said it's not a thing. Okay right so tennis which We are here to talk about and which had been watching with interest. All Week Sung much happens in the tennis. World doesn't end the space of a week. We did over now last week and I got into that and I thought nothing's going to happen over the next one that will require anything like this much and then within about a half an hour loads of stuff that happened including them and that was the day that Kim Clijsters came back and then I think within twelve hours a thirty six year old has made a really impressive comeback after seven years. Not Playing and a sixteen year old had won a match on the tour or within talk hours of US hitting stop on our recording and the sixteen year old was not cocoa. Gov so later if she's fifteen still fifteen she will be sixteen at some stage. Yeah and then. How many hours after that did the federal news drop out many Russia? Fedor out until the grass out of tennis and that's surgery on his knee. The meniscus again Offer Scott Pick Surgery. The other Navy had in two thousand sixteen which kept him out for six months. After Wimbledon last time in two thousand sixteen he came back to two thousand. Seventeen Hartman custody. Play that yeah. Yeah and then. He won the Australian. So that's how federal comebacks have happened so far from major injuries this this is quite an interesting injury inasmuch as for all the things that were going on the last two slams the US Open when he lost a Gregor Dmitrov in the Australian Open when he was creaking. When he lost to Novak Djokovic he didn't show any signs outwardly. Talk openly about an issue with me. Now there's you know there's no necessary reason why he should but there were a physical ailments that we were aware of but neither one appear to be his knee and I think the fact that the treatment he received at both received of call therefore you seem that he's receiving treatment to a portion of the body for which you would have to get indecent To have treated we know yet treatment on his back at the. Us Open Against of course but I'm not sure he ever actually confirmed what he was getting treatment for the Australian Open when he went to a code. Say I thought he said Groin. Rose I remember. We were all speculating that decent region that it was the same back in the troubled in the US Open and then he came off. And I think he said in the press conference it was his groin. Maybe that was a decoy. And he'll say had been any stuff he said. This has been troubling him for a while. And it's what federal does is a very calculated Shan schilling surgery is. He looks at his schedule and he thinks what is it that I still WanNa do with my year and with my career and Muchas tournaments like Indian Wells and Miami a big tournament's on on the calendar to him in the context of his career than not going to be career altering. Yeah I mean I think I think even take away the meniscus injury and the surgery and there's an argument for him having a break in his season here and stocking up the Kinda. Because let's face it. This summer is going to be one of the most significant periods in his whole career. I think this Wimbledon very possibly his last proper tilted a Wimbledon way in is one of the favorites and a hundred percent for certain. I mean. Of course I'm taking a risk by saying that on a four yearly cycle. Come on this has to be his last tilt at Olympic singles gold. So as you said earlier in the late last week on our walks up yes. The year is fifty two weeks long. But it's not for a federal this year remain that gross core. Olympics period is is everything now. I think the Australian Open was a genuine chance for him to win. We didn't know you struggling with injury. I think realistically the French Open and frankly the US Open. It will be twelve years. Since he's one this year I think those are highly unlikely Wimbledon and it's the Olympics and this period of the year doesn't mean anything to the Middle East he can fact to the US. Open Internet Little Group of tournaments. And think well you know. It's it's all in the same spell so if I could get myself properly right now in this because if you think about it when he came back after the two thousand sixteen injury he won the Australian Open and then he won. Wimbledon didn't say the same the same was. Is that Ryan Miami. So strewed me. It was like he had the ability to to just turn on for this spurt of time in which he was fully fit. He had similar really if you if you think back to last year and the year before he'll have spells where he can be nigh on unplayable for for a little while. It's not just necessarily one tournament. He can do it for a while but he needs to be absolutely one hundred percent. Yeah and timing wise. He'd already said that he wasn't GonNa play on the clay this year. Apart from the French Open he was going to take a break off. Did you buy into Mojo's and Miami anyway so it's really takes him out of four tournaments? If if you put it that way to by Miami in the French Open and of all the players federal feels like the one who could take this? Well get over the circularly recover and then come back on grass in stood. O'hara show way I kind of just turn it on almost immediately as you were saying. He's the one who you would back to have break. And actually that could benefit him in the shorter which is what he's looking at with women and the Olympics and if you take on the US Open as well. So although I think last year he actually benefited from playing on the clay. He said that himself he felt like he got his kind of timing right on his groundstrokes before the gross you know. He's he's taking breaks when he's not played on client comeback on on the grass. Fine in two thousand seventeen and twenty eighteen. So it's it's the best pair of the year to have this problem for federal. If he is short physically he does not even a discussion to be had. The guys nearly forty then he he he incredibly can still compete at this level if he's fully fit if he's not forget it so it's it's sensible and crucially. He think he's pretty much guaranteed to remain top eight. For Wimbledon he'll have a topic seating for Wimbledon And I think Olympics is a bit too far away to focused and obviously it depends what happens to him at Wimbledon On the gross this year. But I kind of thing seating Wimbledon largely relevant. It's all about the draw. I mean being second large. It doesn't stop be having to face Jovic on the dull in in the same in the same tournament and it's all about about beating Jackovitch really isn't it will somebody else taking jackovitch out for him So I'm I'm not sure that issue is hugely significant and I also remember the last time. He came back from his surgery. So the start of two thousand seventeen season. How everyone's expectations of him were quite a lot lower. We really didn't know what to expect and I think he talks about. It's a good draw because I'm in the drawer. That was the line. He used his opening press conference in Australia. And he did have this different mindset. He was I think he was the seventeenth seed or something like that and obviously he was expecting things that are selfish. Wilshire federal but it wasn't quite the same there was definitely. It was more liberated encore and I think that's slightly been what's missing to. May in his game the last couple of years because he's played good tennis absolutely but he's not quite had that freedom in some of the bigger matches that he had in that twenty seventeen season where he was just teeing off on the back end and it was all like it was like a bonus because he just had his surgery at this different mindset. It was casino tennis. Yeah and if he can come back with a little bit more of that than he's had in recent months in the last couple of years argument that makes him more dangerous. I would still looking the fact that he's had two slams right where his body is fouled him and from what we're led to believe neither one of them was the knee so. I would question whether the body can just hack it anymore. The thing is though the injuries are rarely isolated day so I wonder if you know particularly the back which is sort of your like anchor point of your body. Isn't it and growing in HIP hairier as well? If you've got an injury elsewhere it sets the sort of everything out of balance so if the back is sort of a chronic thing that he manages an acute issue elsewhere will be probably feeding into that. So yeah I wonder if that's a factor and also that six-week kind of golden stretch. We're talking about with wooden the Olympics. Neither of those tournaments are best of five on how court which should wear his body has led him down in the last six months he was fine wooden astier and he's tended to be fine best of three on how those are massively in his favor there as well They see a federal is Wimbledon and the Olympics and both all he was already. Yeah and now. It's just even more so nice. I chose it's the gross and the Olympics. All excited I of like that of obviously missing in Indian Wells Miami but I I mean everyone is. I'm just all in on the Olympics anyway every possible way but I just love the federal at these two events is going to be. It's just going to be everything in theory. You can take the physicality element certainly more aside at those to you as you say best to three the Olympics will be fascinating on so many levels because of it being best at three so the levels suddenly house nick feels like has a chance to David over best in through. Yeah give me the Olympics now salivating over Olympic. Well a week ago we were talking about how physically the returning thirty six year old can classes would would stand up in her return match which was but hours away as we spoke to you a week ago against company. Mcgraw Reuther it was. I think six to seven six in the end And at one stage it looked like it was going to go more one sided than that didn't it because I think Mcgrath was two or three love in the second set and then I was driving back at the time whilst while she was going on but. I was sort of aware of the flurry of messages that you were both sending. Because of what you're witnessing clijsters who suddenly got to grips with the level speed of the ball and there are so many highlight moments out at out there of reminding you what she used to be in terms of the the sound of the ball of the strings. I think it's it's more pronounced. Because she makes no sound to self when she hits the ball. There's No san coming out of a mouth and so all you're hearing is this pop this incredibly clean str- cleaning struck ball and it was too much even from grew through at times and that second set. Reedie was Taito to close. It was Berle. I didn't realize how sentimental I felt about Kim Clijsters until I watched that much. I mean I loved the I love the story of coming back just from a journalistic point of view because it's a cool interesting story but from sort of personal tennis fan point of view. I hadn't I hadn't really considered it from that angle. And then suddenly I felt a little bit emotional watching her and Matt watching it together in e said. Did she used to do that? Tapping the racket on the ground thing won't before receiving serve and I said Yeah I used to imitate that when I knew instantly that she did because I used to copy it and I suddenly felt this sort of wave of emotion watching and an even bigger wave watching her do what she used to do. Not Go into hyperbole about you. Know it's it's it's like time stood stale that kind of stuff. I know I don't know what she's going to go and do but I know she gave a good account of herself and I feel like there were lots of people waiting to to to brand the comeback. A failure or to suggest that she was silly to think that she had any chance of competing. These days because tennis's moved on ETC ETC. Um Sort of imposing their own assumptions about what? Her ambitions and expectations are of the whole thing. She she hasn't said what she she wants to expect other than to to play tennis into to have what's left of her career in the heroine hands and I found the whole thing really uplifting in a way that took me by surprise and that any any kind of narrative of time stood still actually does a tremendous disservice to what she's doing. The factors seven years have passed. She's had more children. It's an it's an incredible feat that she's come back and on her first match played that level that she found in the second set. It's unbelievable I was concerned that especially when she was a Setina breakdown did go through my mind. I hope this isn't going to be embarrassing for that. She she just finds out when she's out there it isn't she can't keep up and very quickly decides doesn't want to do this anymore. Well I left the flat here. A three love mcgrew in the second sex. That's going to catch my train and we were. We were a little bit down about it that stage where we we were trying to Remember her comments about how the this wasn't about results necessarily for her. As you've said it was about coming back in rediscovering the feelings and but you know part of you watching. That was a little bit. It was a little bit upsetting to begin with. I thought personally and then suddenly when she started fighting back in this in the second set it created. This bows around tennis. And I've not felt in a while. Actually I found myself using my phone. Data streaming walking up. Putney High Street is as she wrote back and you looked like she was about to take the second set. It was like a must see moment. I thought I was missing out if I wasn't seeing it. I've used up so much phone data watching tennis. So if you want to the people that Matt nothing those people and then suddenly I was wondering. Yeah the I think part of that is that nobody has about words. Say About Complies T. V. Either retrospectively remembering who she used to be as a player and as a person and also the there is a lot of goodwill out there people would would would joyous return and seeing that actually there are. There are flashes there of of what she used to be still on show she can still do those things maybe only in a microcosm maybe only in a set but then we just don't know we're we're going to say that unfolded in the weeks to come. It reminds you when you talked about the feelings you got it reminded me when Martina Hingis made a comeback her. I will not doubles one. She met a singles comeback and beat Verizon Arriva who was one of the top ten players in the world and she just schooled her. It was an whenever you watch to play like. Hingis try to decode. These players. Were bigger games or just physically bigger. It was always quite uplifting. Just watching their surgically pick them apart and the pink off the racket particular with the background on the line and the intelligence and with Kleist as it was the combination of the the sound of the ball of the strings because she she showed you that she had the power to to. Just go to you to- Today. She could still do that Which isn't a huge surprise. But crikey. Don't forget unless you watch back footage. You can forget what it feels like to to witness it so it's going to be a wait and see isn't it but already that was pretty uplifting it really was. I do wonder if again it all depends on what her sort of hopes and expectations are. Maybe they aren't even fully formed in her own mind but I do wonder if she'll now pro. She has the reassurance the data of or bits of data about where she is relative to sort of top twenty players Whether she'll drop down a level to to try and get matches and wins and confidence. Oh where the show sort of keep going for wildcards into the bigger events at maybe do smattering of both deny. I think I'm right inside. A next event is Monterrey which is a lower level. Wti event Where okay this. She's not GonNa be drawing Mugabe Reuther. Yes in the first. Probably Monterey Not in California Monterrey Mexico which. I'm sure I've got roll before on this. We had to do revision pocos. She doing extra five minutes telling people how great the aquarium is in. Do you remember the Tokyo memory? Goes unless I've had a bunch of people saying yes. It is a great late aquarium. That's just not what the tennis tournament is where we're currently doing an entry into the British podcast awards facts and part of that involves doing research to find out. Bits of the show that we might like to put forward as examples of why it might be a good nomination. Matt reminded us that half a dozen things that happened this year on this podcast that we had completely forgotten what you expect me to know about what happened five years ago daily. Pay Liza key. Lay My parents. That's sort of big east. My mom believing listening to included as one of the leading that's the podcast analysis on the subject of uplifting tennis. Talk Kim Clijsters there. I found the whole week of tennis. Pretty uplifting and probably summed up by the final an established player in Simona. Halep who we were. We've been chatting about. The cost of the week is a player that is capable of making pretty much any match really watchable. No matter who she's up against the only the only time she isn't really watchable or she's let us as viewers down is when she kinda lets herself down and that's happened over the years when she's just kind of not turned up and it looked as though she just can't bring it that day and dials it in most of the time whether she's planning big hitter she's the most incredible counterpuncher and if she's playing somebody else who's a symbol account bunches. She can up her own acceleration level on the ground strokes and and try to the PLO away from the Mona and I love that combination. Plus just the sheer fact that she has a stadium. She turns a Pretty Sleepy Stadium which Dubai for instance often is into this almost football crowd because people love Simona halep yeah. She's the the negative of tennis. Isn't she the universal donor to tennis? That's the best analogy. I can come up with while you were saying that. It's not perfect. I will keep thinking. This is the best one I could come up with. Yeah and the much she played against on SRA bird the quarterfinal second round. Nothing now the it was her. It was her first match in the tournament. If feel so recent that had an extraordinary atmosphere because Cheryl there she's cheesy and had a given what she's she's don't Arab tennis shed a huge amount of support in in deep she was treated essentially as a player by the crowd and yet Howlett. How much is she managed manages to always make it feel like. She's at home because the Romanian sports just so fervent. That much is so cool In every respect in the contrast of styles and JAP- Did she have much points in that point And how it's comments about Jabber off to the much. Were range things. Well comparing her game then to to when she played a year or so ago because she's a player that just seems to be Coming on leaps and bounds and Halup said a peak level has has increased considerably. She still makes too many areas. She she tells throw in just sort of inexplicable feeling Areas Jabber. Her her ceiling is raised. So much and she's she's brilliant watchin- Halla created so many great matches last week via the person. That's part of what feels like. The the narrative of the week is the place you beat in the final Atlanta Rebecca. Who from it for a completely different set of reasons also left me fading up lifted about the sport and particularly in her case the sports future twenty years of age and I think after her first round I I saw something on our read Reddit. Page which Somebody was talking about the ceiling of Atlanta Rebecca. And I was thinking you know. I don't know how to answer this because I don't feel like I've watched her enough. I've I've seen the results come in I've seen snapshots of performances and people. She's beaten which have raised eyebrows. Made Me Think. Oh you know she. She must be pretty good but felt as haven't sat down and watched a succession of matches to really understand why she's getting these results. And and I said to YOU MATT. How special can she be how? What and what is what. What is special about her as a player and over the course of the week I feel like I really thoroughly understood that both in terms of her physical presence on the court. She's six foot tall thing. She looks like a an Olympic swimmer. Looks the most wonderful athletes wonderful sort of proportions for a strong powerful but some great movement as an athlete and she's sized away through the drawer be counting applicable who's almost like a formative version of herself in some ways the androids version of What I made the Anna. Look the analogue version if if Rebecca's digital I was GONNA say back the android update. Yes exactly a that was really interesting. She that much and that comparison is pushing for must find must find watching Rebecca quite quite tough to tape because it's the same sort of model of tennis. They their their weapons are in the same mould but Rebecca what. Mary's Mary Carillo Three three keys to being a successful turns Baker to hold serve. All of see Rebecca's doing just in a sleep Have a weapon a weapon. And you've got to be able to disguise your weakness will rebecca's weakness relatively is the same place. Googlers movement is never going to be given her her size how the the the biggest most the strongest component of a game but it doesn't feel like a huge glaring weakness that can be attacked attacked and exposed. She's already developed this ability to to protect it which is what place. Kebir dozen have And yet it's like. Please give a book with a well. Biggest ceiling doesn't have the slams hasn't shown its apart from that one. Us Open the she has. Its at the slums because I think if you look at how the last couple years place. She's had some really really good results and consistently good results and yet it still feels. I do agree with you. It feels like the stump still something missing. The must be in order for her not to be out to dial that in at the Grand Slam tournaments. Now I'm not comparing back in his results to push a couple of months of interest. I'm looking at them as just as athletes and tennis players in potential and you think that she has more potential achieve more than push for has over the course of I do I do I mean recency buyers obviously but I don't see that that weakness to be exploited and have weapons speak for themselves are weapons are glorious that serve. I mean unless she suddenly gets the apes on us. That's just is just so much in the bank. Every time she steps onto a cool things like a great competitor is well why she be severe Kenan over three sets. I mean there's your evidence of a competitor of right. There came back from a set down to beat to beat Kenan. That was I think. Less than forty eight hours after she just played the Saint Petersburg final. Everyone understood buttons is decision to pull out of Dubai after winning. Saint Petersburg is perfectly reasonable. That it's going to be some tiredness there but equally. It's Rebecca deserve so much respect in credit for going to Dubai straight off the back of that run in Saint Petersburg and just picking up exactly where she left off and the way you talk about kind of being lifted by this kind of run from Rebecca that we've seen over the start of the season it got me. I was thinking the same. They got me thinking. How often do we feel like that about plaza on the on the WJ? It happens so frequently. It will never cease to amaze me the way that players burst through whol. Even in the last twelve months we've probably had similar conversations about to a greater degree and dress. Goo Your strengths. Kerr either Anisimov Veontech. So many whose mother There's so many who can break through and are breaking through with exciting tennis. And I think I was thinking back to Marilyn belt to these comments about how she doesn't think that the depth she was talking about the depth of the of the WPA two are not being quite strong as it was in hurt and we talked about that last week about plays favoring their era and that kind of thing but I think maybe what she meant is at the very very top of the sport. There's not A. There's not a group of players who've won multiple multiple slam classes has come back. And she's she's slotted in as the play with the fourth most amount of slams on the tour but the depth in terms of players who can produce weeks or months like this threatening tennis almost a little bit out of nowhere and then be able to sustain it like undress strips because as pie as I've mentioned having become part of the establishment on the tour surely hasn't been stronger than it than it is. Now you know you get this so many good players from round one in these these events Yeah it's just exciting fantastic stats by the way from ream bill. Here on Simone Hal up. She said that three hundred seventeen weeks simone. Halif has been in the world's top ten in a row three hundred seventeen weeks six years. I was gobsmacked by that I don why when I think about it. I shouldn't be because that's kind of how long it feels. The she's been pretty much around for. I just can't believe she has an dips within that period fun. Yes she's still would the the tour isn't she and this well? She finished two years number one back to back and I think I think Serena's done that a little bit but there's there's not many players who've done that since Steffi Graf for a WHO've managed to sustain being number one and even even more so in the top ten for so long As a different energy encore about how this year. I think I mean I remember asking her straight open that she used the word chilled for her year last year. And I think that got a little bit taken out of context. She wasn't just. She wasn't just sort of breezing through tournaments she. She was obviously win them and she won Wimbledon. She was just a little bit more relaxed. Generally but the word to use what word you would use for this year. She didn't come out with one but she kept talking about how motivated she feels this year. And you know I think how the Australian Open. I thought she was going to win that tournament because she was looking probably the best and now she's backed up her semifinal. Run there with with a title. Such a good start the season. It feels like she's going to keep bringing doesn't it and therefore the scheduling will be important because as outlined already by Catherine with the summer. That's to come with Wimbledon and the Olympics all pushed together and she did sacrifice the Fed Cup this year. She didn't play Romanian qualifier. She's she's already potentially thinking about that a little bit with the scheduling. I'm Katherine Talks about the Olympics again. That can you imagine how we gold medal for Romania. The Olympics having talked about the the sort of fandom frenzy that surrounds her. You're so calm and guy in back exactly right around. Women's will I mean I think for Nolan Pitch Gold? You can multiply that by several factors. I mean it just blows my mind feel like I want to go on a dominant team again. Why you why are you not playing it? And I'm not having a guy I really. It's up to him. I just don't want to get it. I am particularly given his. Co. She Nicolas Massu made his whole career at the Olympics by winning singles. And Double Scull. Where you know it. Just I can't stand it anyway. Half I than a question of questions with a compliment sandwich right yea slightly strange week in rear. What's going on there now? You mentioned Ray. Oh well no we. We need to mention Rio immediately. Because that's next on the agenda list and because of Youtube telling me a week ago in these very seats four-way without a lunch. Maybe that's impacting it. You both told me that he was not going to lose a clay-court against anybody other than the Dow ever again. That's what you told I went and said in our newsletter which you can subscribe to and get all of our rubbish predictions on a weekly basis. I said in our newsletter that he would win in Rio and he didn't. It's your fault I stand by everything I said about team last week. He shouldn't be those. Those were the Catholic chosen words. Not the he would beat every almost lost in the first round. He met a right hash of the whole tournament. Ria was dominic. One thing I did not expect to be doing in February was watching to talk in the morning on my phone in bed. Dominic team in a third cy on clay against the guy ranked outside the top four hundred. And yet there. I was just doing it. We should also just catch that by saying he. I think he had a knee injury as even said it didn't affect him as far as I understand. He hits himself with his with his racket causing that knee injury and then he said it didn't affect him for the rest of the tournament. Sorry I shouldn't be Lafon. A- dominating team doesn't need lease to generally measure is a pronounced that right seven six seven five on clay unless going on that that doesn't happen no and he and I mean he paid Xiaomei Muna. Who's a good clay court player? That went to three sets. He won that match team. You know fine but then the the first Mexico was the one I was referencing. Where yeah. That's just ended up in this in this mess of match. That was Excuse US having to look up the names bit. There were lots of people in Rio that we just never heard of. Before it was a relief. Pay Meligeni Rodriguez Alvarez. That's the one. Yes the score military half the screen on on on prime we understand not a relative of Finande Meligeni unlike the Korea that was in the draw in Rio. Who is the younger brother if Guillermo Wow he had a bit of a run didn't they? Yeah what did he gets? A semi's I think cool schools is quarterfinals Christine Garin. Who ended up winning the whole thing Yes yeah third in the race Christian Garin to two titles in a row. He beat John. Luka Major was how he pronounced yeah I feel like you're the closest to an Italian expert in the Rim to win heart talion expert. I don't know I'll try and get a m a voice not from the ATP of him announcing his own name. That's usually the best way for which we settled the hatching of debate. Yes I mean the thing about team is. It's absolutely my no means a cause for alarm week. I. It's just one of those weeks where he's wasn't playing well but I just I just kinda think why's even playing because you end up. Thinking actually is not the worst loss in the world because it means is a little bit fresher going into Indian Wells where he's defending the title. But if you're thinking like that it's not the worst loss in the world. Then what's the point of really even playing it I don't know I mean the team scheduling as long. Been One of the most talked about things about him. You could say it's paying off now because he is one of the most physically strong young players who were not not the top three outside of them. He's one of the most physically strong and you back into do well in big tournaments now so it has worked but I just think why is he. Why is he playing that? We you know an I suppose one CARAT BEFORE. It is the fact that it is a five hundred point tournament and really the the field was probably the weakest on paper that I've ever sane at one thousand five hundred tournaments to to the point where it became quite a talking points Including Nick curious weighing in on it. And saying if you think having all these Clay Court tournaments whilst we're in the midst of the hot season is good for the Super Bowl. It's in the future tennis you know. He clearly doesn't agree and it was it. Fate should play as as you said many of whom would barely heard of and and yeah I mean maybe I need to watch more of them. It was a week tournament relatively speaking however it also did feature this Champ Alvarez who is sixteen years of age and who Matt has had on his radar some time. Tell us all about it. Yes this is my chance to Loot well SORTA come on So Yeah I did my year abroad. Three months of it in Barcelona naturally got tickets to the five hundred event. There this twenty seventeen and it was the I went to the semifinals and the final and on the on the day of the fine or they were having a junior event was the final the under fourteens and Ethel Right. I'll I'll go to that. It was on the second call in Barcelona which is a great great tournament is in a tennis club. And there's a great fail to it and it was quite a big crowd for this under fourteen event and I remember it being Carlos Alcatraz Garcia against as he was then a bit like Nidal used to be an adult Pereira against Daniel Rincon and what I remember specifically my first memory of that match is that Alcatraz had was right handed but had all than the dull gear and Rincon was left handed and had all the federa gifts in terms of their rackets. You just immediately tell who the were and I just remember being completely blown away. By Alcoa's I think he won easily. Straight-set six two six two or something and I remember texting my unit mates at the time thinking. I've just watched this guy who's blown me away and he's like thirteen. He's unbelievable at tennis and I was trying to compare him to my nowhere near Heights. Those heights of junior as and what I remember mostly about junior tennis was how everyone was always in such a tantrum aches twelve or thirteen about line calls and missing shots and these two both so calm and seemed like professional like Thirteen Alcatraz in particular and he had this all court game the the sweet strikes the ball drop shots. He was just instantly. Impressive by no means talent-spotting my behalf. Anyone would have watched him and been impressed. He was he was that good and then the uncle that trophy ceremony afterwards with the Dow who came on and gave the trophies and it was just it was just a really nice scene and I've just always had it in the back of my mind that that's a name that I have is that They say that it's going to be produced with with headlines about passing of battle on in the future. What is he Spanish. Sixteen years of age and the the reason that he created such a stir in Rio he was a wild card and in the first round defeat. Albert remers villas. Who's a proper established player who who doesn't chuck it in? And he beat him seven six four six seven six in three hours thirty six minutes at length. Three o'clock in the morning. Welcome to the tall. Tennis is still going on three o'clock in the morning. Yeah just an exciting exciting breakthrough. And he's been a bit like we've talked about. What was your seem ticking. Off a lot of the checkpoints of juniors. He's been the guy for his eggs group to think he's even younger than Australia. Is a little bit mind boggling? But he was the first guy born I think in two thousand three to win a match on the futures level challenge level now to level. So He's been taking these these milestones. Okay we'll watch. I can just imagine that name the top of the game in lights. It's a bit like alka trials. Call US al Qaeda's yeah goodnight. Works like it okay. And just one thing. He's coached by one Carlos Ferreira. Oh all of them. Previous Alexandra's various coaching fame. And also I remember the day that somebody I ever told me about the existence of one Carlos Ferreira when I was working on the ATP second in the late nineteen seventy two thousands. And I remember I think it was probably one of the communications manager at the time. They Colorado Santi. Who who said you know this? This guy's is GonNa be something special release. People think he is going to be and he would he would have been maybe a little bit older than Alcatraz is right. There and off courts came Alex Corretja. Who came into the press conference and I remembered what color said and I said. What do you think of Ferrara? And he said he's so good. His arm is so fast he hits the ball so hot and it was just immediate really that he was getting results on the toll. It took him a little bit longer to get a first Grand Slam. I think than people even thought I remember The toll was desperate for this passing of the baton from Persson Agassi to this new breed of players that included Roger Federer Lleyton Hewitt's and And M- and also on crossfire is part of the group. And then Ferraro lost to Albert Costa in the French Open final and I remember one of the communication staff saying that is not good for the movement. Mused long since departed that. What would he make of the next? Gen? I mean we're talking about Grand Slam results. Even better is not good for the movement. Yeah it really really struck me when the Dow came along and played for just the way the the movements happen. Actually there were how quickly things can change. And somebody WHO's next? The next big thing can be can be overtaken on you mentioned sociality. Same he got to the final second file in a row in Marseille beaten by stephanus sits a Bass. Another good wait. Fraudulous seem back to back finals. But zero for five in them I I would tend to take the positive slant on that and think well good for you might keep it on getting to finals. It'll just come eventually. It will come. It will come. He doesn't want to set in a near those finals. I think I thought he played better in this one against sit to pass the in the Roseanne final against Mafia. That worried me more because he he's he was. I'm from can remember from his. A couple of previous finals seemed to be just not showing up so much for the final just not bringing the tennis that brought into the final into the into the final but I thought he did play pretty well against it. Surpass in this funding sit surpass. Just is a is a better more honed player than him the moment so. I think from this week in particular. It's it's really nothing. But positives for jared seem But I would like him to an update as any. Massive cuts cause for concern. But I would quite like him to break that duck senior see northern later Agreed but I am with you. Both the the fact. He's reached five finals as a teenager. You know that's putting him in company with the players have gone on to really great things you know. It's the same. As Mary. Similar TO JACKOVITCH. I think tennis. Tv posted the the staff and the Dow reached eighteen finals teenager which is totally absurd. But always your team is doing really well. And he's doing it I think Tamiami camera pointed out that. He's he's defending a lot of the points that one this time last year except he's doing it on the different surface last year he was doing it over in. South America mcclay. Now he's doing indoor in Europe. He's he's adaptable. We've seen him get to the The semifinal of Queen's grass. He's he's building a little bit of a young career. Ready seems to be adaptable to heels the same studios to me. Somebody will go away after every loss and try to work out what happened and what he's going to do differently next time and I think that that'll get him a long way. Yeah how can I not have to stand on court with runner up? Trophy will sit to pass. Does a ten minute meandering winners speech again? That will be his main source of for less surpass. Thank the photographers about three times. And then did the world's weirdest instagram story which she ended up to the eating. I really want to know the circumstances of how it came to be posted in the first place because somebody's they're filming it for him right Yes yes. Sits past is wearing only his pants in one of those recovery chambers dancing being filmed with kind of music that you can add an instagram story over the top those went on for about a minute and then it was up about half an hour or so and it was deleted but of course everyone thinks sheltered it. Staff was mum intimate. Who's intervened there and said. This is too weird even fee. What his mom had absolutely no problem telling him to be top when she stormed on. So yes potentially. Sasha public is a player who also created some headlines to win over Dennis. Chiappa Vullo got himself to the semi finals in In Marseilles and gave some quote some pretty strong quotes about how basically only in tennis for the money and doesn't really love it that much which which in some cultures didn't go down that well I I mean I prefer plays love it. I Love Tennis. I love watching it. I love talking about it but I'm not that surprised when not everybody does personally absolutely. I think it's fine for that to an impede your enjoyment of watching them but judging him as an individual for cheesy career which. He's very very good. I can make a lucrative living but doesn't love. I find really bizarre because we all know people that have made these life choices and they've got every right to do that. And and what would it be better for him to say? Oh I shouldn't do this really lucrative living Because I knew people that love. It should should be able to do it so we'll go and work in petrol station instead. I understand that all I mean fine for it to fit to lessen your enjoyment of watching him play as a fan. I think that's fine but To to judge him as a person of making that choice I think. And there's there's probably plenty that feel that way and on being quite so honest about it He's he's Long. Been a curious Type Radi hasn't a almost copycats in some ways in terms the way plays the sport and and as we see there is the way the way he talks. I'm not saying that he's done it because curious does it but I think that they can definitely see eye to eye kindred spirits. Wow well there's just been a wrapping that the Dole and another plumber has just come to the door and he's had a raw. Oh crikey so. Let me run next door. Also having major plumbing issues. But they're seating is collapsed. Apparently say security that gold. This moment I think so we. If we if you hear us just run out of the room. You'll know what's happened. I'm so the other major tournament it was getting on last week was in Delray Beach. They had caught a rain that and in the end it was won by writing Palca so we had the most wonderful net handshake seen with the seven feet. Tall Radio Palca of the United States beating the five foot seven inch tall Yasuhito Nishioka of Japan in the final. So I will always find that funny. How many times they play and they played like two weeks ago in New York and it was funny then and it was funny again but it is a is a demonstration of yeah what other sports or other ways you can have a five seven seven foot tall competing at the absolute highest level. It's it's say something about tennis that make heart doesn't always help discovered in this room against these. Two opponents zero for two. Against the tennis podcast presenters. We also had Jack sock winning his first tennis match since two thousand eighteen on the tour apart from the Labor Cup and he was in tears afterwards Goodwin for him over Rondo Alla bots and Yeah I mean it's quite moving. Actually I thought seeing seeing that scene because he he looks like he's now I know he's. He's Pretty Brash. At Times Jack sock and I can find it pretty off-putting at times. But I think I get seen in these fan or pretty hard the last few years yes and I think it's been easy for I'm sure we've been guilty guilty of it just sort of lazily think are. It doesn't doesn't care very much anymore. Because his demeanor is sort of. You know cocky Jock Ish American But that's that doesn't mean disservices. Very clear how much how much she does care. And and clearly how how? Difficult last year or so. He's been A. I mean he's been a bit of a butt of jokes rady from some publicly running privately So yeah it was. It was quite interesting as she is. Quite moving 'cause I mean it was just the most extraordinary full full from grace. You don't see you see trajectories like that radio cousy see comebacks and drop-offs and all the rest of it is just ludicrous. Will missed him. Say by the way just a quick mention for I wild cod American Brandon Nakashima who was beaten by Yasha China. Nishioka six three six seven. Six six four in the quarter-finals Nakashima has been working with PAT cash. Who is a good friend of ours here on the tennis podcast and I? It's for a couple of weeks in the words of cash on twitter. Here but yeah. He sounded like an exciting plan. I'm always just interested to see when a former champion grandson champion light. That hooks up with a player. Little Bit let you talking about Ferraro and him and Alcatraz really how that's going to go and And what sort of progress that might make together. So we'll keep an eye on that also very sad news about the passing of gene efforts Dubin. Who is the sister? The younger sister of Chris Evert's that that was revealed over the course of the last week really sad and I thought Scott to her and And their family I hadn't realized how how good a player she was. Certainly she was a couple of times into the third round of the. Us Open forty. Two in the world and mazing pitches emerging of the to them together on the tennis and in particular a magazine cover of Chris and Angie Numbed Tennis USA magazine together some really amazing really Let's go out to Chris thing. They were quite close Also should just mention the corona virus which is starting to make itself felt on the tennis circuit. We've had a couple of tournament cancellations over the last week one in the Far East and one I think in Italy as well where the weather's been a pretty the most significant outbreak in Europe of the virus. In its offense. I got in touch with the vice president of communications that the WPA and asked her own the position of the bout the corona virus given the Tory so heavily stacked at the end of the year with their major events with their wti finals. In Shenzhen is the big tournaments in. Wuhan is the other one in Beijing all in October November. And she said we're watching it closely. The there is nothing more important than protecting the health of our players and events staff and of course fans and they haven't made any strong firm decisions about anything at this stage but it's something that they're monitoring and it's it is going to be interesting. Isn't it to see what they ended up doing? And whether the whether it involves cancellations or relocations events But it's a it's a hugely worrying time. Obviously as she says nothing is more important than human beings but as a as a business as sports business the WTI is so heavily reliance on that part of the world's for the season end so we'll wait and see and the Olympics. Yeah of course. Yeah in Tokyo in In the summer I'll just be our Olympics correspondent for the next six months for the last eight years so got him with. Tacoma has got huge Olympic logos up all over flats sitting on my cushion that I bought from from Young Jang. She is horrible and yet it's still keep it proudly in flats. Is there anything else? Shoutouts shoutouts Yes for those who have back to one hundred pound and enable distance to keep this show on the road. Who've we got we have a we? The Friends of the podcasts shoutout special today excellent Tashin Dave Levy. Oh Tash Dave. Thanks very much and to Tony. Maybe Tony who is somebody who works for the BBC and various other broadcasters editing the most wonderful montages that you see on your television screens at tennis tournaments and somebody. Who's a great friend of ours at Queen's Club particularly and I know he's a big listener because I was getting my lunch at Wimbledon last year towards the end of the tournament and I was getting a Burger and chips and on my dropped my tray and my ships when everywhere and suddenly this this man came up behind me and said you need to explain yourself young man and it was Tony. Maybe and I thought how called. Yeah I just I just wasn't thinking my hand slipped said Nano not talking about that. I'm talking about how you knew that. Federal Been Stung by a bee in the second round of those. That happened so late listening. Thanks to the support more shoutouts next week mascot is Butler Caltrans face lights up dimension about ler and yet so huge thanks to everybody who supported. Us course start of the year and we will be back with another edition of the tennis podcast. Next week we are making our plans for the year We are loving every minute of it. Hope you enjoyed the show today and we'll be with you next week.

tennis Olympics US Kim Clijsters Mary Carillo Matt Catherine Witty David Miami Martina Hingis Australia Dubai Europe tiffany Novak Djokovic Tokyo Scott Russia Rio
Sliding Doors - Part 1

The Tennis Podcast

1:07:18 hr | 2 months ago

Sliding Doors - Part 1

"Let's be real dealing with tangled cords can make it harder to do your hair break free with the new unbound. Cordless auto curler from conair yet the curls and waves. You want anytime anywhere. It's designed to let you experience the power and freedom of beauty in motion. No courts to hold you back. You get your curls and waves your way unplug and be unbound loose curls tight curls beachie waves the unbound cordless auto curler makes it easy to get the looks. You love love your look. Live unbound available at conor dot com and search unbound. Hi this is marian by toady a mats wilander. This is mary carillo. Thundering lleyton hewitt. I'm andy murray. This is yannick noah. Hi this is sarah from philadelphia. And you're listening to the tennis podcast. Well hello sarah in philadelphia. We actually think that we might already have used the intro of sarah in philadelphia and just sent. He failed to transfer it from the unused box to the used box in our filing system but we decided that it doesn't matter because of voices so lovely if we are using it for a second time then then. It's just nice to hear from sarah again. He probably kids uh probably could get quite a little work in the voice over industry if she wherever so inclined. Oh that's brilliant. Great way to start episode one hundred and fourteen hundred twenty twenty. Yes we are one of the hundred and fifty month that david has been aiming for pretty much ever since we recorded that Emergency podcast the day the to podcast day back at the australian open one of them recorded in the company of leslie. Bowery in gordon square over longtime ago. That feels it's been. It's been a bumpy old time in the uk. a couple of days we're affected. I'm sure your effected with the is going to be is going to be a bumpy time for awhile and We'll be booby doing podcasts. Throughout it what we yes. It's it's very nice to be talking to you both with somehow plunge to even lower deck which i guess i'm looking forward today to inhabiting some alternate universes on this podcast. Yes we're not just living in the post. Today we're living in an alternate universe post because today and those day we're bringing you sliding does tennis which is kind of ovarian concept isn't it should we. Should we trademark this in some way. Can we patent it. Let's if it's a success. I shower and then and then we'll get onto the patent lawyers wouldn't wouldn't gwyneth paltrow smith about that. She owns the rights to alternates. Alternate timelines well. My favorite my favorite genre of is counterfactual fiction. There's a book called idyllwild which imagines a world in the ninety s where needed jfk nor marilyn monroe died in the sixties and it sort of projecting into the future and imagining a world. That is entirely different. And it's cooled arms on on this spoiler for you or the listeners are highly recommend anyway and it's called idol ball because of course idyllwild. Anybody know this putting on spot here. This is a great little but if trivia idyllwild was the name. jfk airport before it became today airport. I don't know how. I read your david. Private could a medium sized book right. Yeah i take a long time to read books Well it's worth the effort. If you got in your hands in the middle of the night you know we as we did last week. We start off with david. Whitaker's review of what we're about to do podcast as he says it's a really good idea. Like i like counterfactual history. If hitler had gone ahead with the invasion of britain in nineteen forty not bottled it dot dot dot. What if lee harvey oswald missed etc. What if it hasn't rained in henman's semifinal with even vich so my daughter's very much understood the premise. If today's podcast and one of those three we're going to do yes. Thank you very much. David whitaker slash. Dad's fuel suggestions A little teaser of what's come where we are thinking of sort of moment tree seemingly incident significant at the time occurrences in tennis which may or may not have entirely altered the course of tennis history. david would you like to kick us off with the first sliding doors tense moment. Yeah would i'd like to imagine a world in which rafael on the dow was not left handed never decided to to play left hand. All just ended up playing left handed. And it's one of the. It's actually one of the things that i wanted to come back to for for quite a while probably a year and a half ever since we did our rounded out story. Podcast when we were we went deep into his his past and tried to just chronicled his career from it from a very young age and during that process we had been like many other outlets taken in by a the the myth it turns out that his uncle tony had decided that he should play handed in order to be more successful in in order to discomfit his opponents more and we talked about that on that podcast and turns out. That isn't what happened. And we at the time i mean. I think that that podcast got some some great feedback. People enjoyed it. But a number of nadal diehard said cop believe you're still going with this view that refunded. The uncalled decided. He should apply left-handed. I one day. Because that's not the case. So i've also one day i'd like to really look into that and find out what the situation was and when we came up with sliding doors tennis and i chose. This is one of my my selections Matt's produced the referee on the dow autobiography which contains the following passage. I've seen reports in the news media saying that. Tony forced me to play left handed and that he did this because it would make me harder to play against well. It's not true. It's the story of the newspapers have made up. The truth is that. I began playing when i was very small and because i wasn't strong enough to hit the ball over the net. I'd hold the racket with both hands on the four hundred as well as the back end then. One day my uncle said there are no professional players who play two hens. Strictly speaking true. Monica seles did right. Fabrice santoro did right But anyway there are no place press professional players who played two hens. And we're not going to be the first ones so you've got to change so i did. What came naturally to me was to play left-handed why i can't tell because i ride with my ryan tend when i play basketball gulf or doubts. That was the way sounds order. I play right handed to but in football i play with my left and my left foot is much stronger than my rights. People say this gives me an advantage on the double handed backhand and that may be right having more feeling more control and both hands than the majority of players has to work in my favorite especially on cross court shots where a little extra strength helps but this was definitely not something that tony in. A moment of genius thought up. It's dumb to imagine that he might have been out to force me to play in a way. That did not come naturally to me so pretty emphatic rejection of that. That story that we've all kind of taken as just conceived wisdom from over the years a couple things that he's often talked about by commentators is looking like he's got to four hands conventional forehands in in the way he's able to strike the bowl in terms of the the sheer muscular. Rt of his game the way he's able to put you on the back foot from both sides equally strongly and say and he's alluding to that in that analysis of whites useful for him to play. Left i personally would distill it. Down to the left handed forehand versus if he had ended up with the right-handed full and specifically the difference. It would have made in his rivalry against roger federer because for the vast majority of the dallas career. I would call his left-handed forehand. Roger federer kryptonite if you look at their careers and the way federal dealt with everybody else until the dow came along. He could handle it all. He seemed to have zero weakness until this guy came along with this looping forehand lassou cross-court whipping forehand loop type of the net bounced and took off at his left shoulder over his head. A lot of times of federal backpedaling hidden that backhand singlehandedly. And it's just waiting to be clogged. And if you look at their their records of grand slams my sliding goals fail to this is what would have done to the rivalry had dowell being right-handed not left-handed what would have done to the grand slam whole. And i say to you that their record of ten four in favor of ref on the dow would have been nothing like ten. Four refund the dow being right-handed. That's very vague. David won't numbers. Well i think you could. You could probably have a i mean. It's a three one head-to-head fandel at the australian open. It's a six zero head to finna down at the french open. I think you could. You could probably give two of those. French opens because he was the second best player in the world throughout most of rough on the announced dominance And i just don't think he would've been beaten in all of them. I think federal defined the answers if it was not for Serious weakness that he has planned background. That could only be exposed by the dowels. Left-handed forehand say to the french is how many of the australians. I think federal would've won all the australians. What about two thousand. Eight wimbledon the finest logins or federal would win that as well sisters when everything is just a little handful of french. Opens a modest till something. Mcdonald's is a brilliant idea. But if you in the head to head if you just take away his left handedness against fetter that very specific detail. I don't think he hurts federer in the way that he did for all those years i feel like really wants to disagree. Am here for it my takeaway. What i was mainly thinking is that our fans are gonna be coming for us again. Having having made a correction from the thing that they had a problem with time we take away wrong with being less ten having a strength. But i think. I i certainly agree with the overall premise. That adults lefty innis in the early stages of his rivalry with federa was a very long contributing factor. Matchup wise in terms of why adult dominated that head to head. We watch back a couple of their fairly early matches on clay. This year we watched the two thousand and five. Frank topamax six row match. And you know you see in both the way. Nidal is able to pin federal in his backhand corner because of his left beforehand bouncing up high jumping up high. As you've said. But i think it's doing the dull the tennis player a slight disservice. If you don't take into account the other things which made him a problem for federal. And i think one of those was an ability to play his best tennis on the biggest points and i still think he can do that. As a righty. His ability to physically with federal was was so strong even when he was a teenager. I guess i think federal might have got a couple of them. But i think the majority still would have been going with the dull and i also think it might have been interesting how their rivalry would have developed because federal took much about how the doe pinning him in that back. Cancun improved his backhand. And we've seen in the last few years. Federal really turn that rivalry around and i wonder whether again the payoff might have come later. Dull against against federal. If he was if he was right handed may be federal would have had more success early. But maybe the doll would've ended up sort of turning that around and and having better results against federal later in his career it was. I think the dull being right hand it would have impacted his rivalry with djokovic. And i think the dolls real strength gets a bit negated by the fact that he's left handed against your coverage because he's able to use his own backhand against him. I guess i think that overall might not have made a huge difference to the numbers. But i agree with you. The way that rivalries would have developed over the years probably would have been different. If that makes sense. I think early on federal would have had more success if he wasn't playing a left handed adul- particularly when he was out his absolute best federal. Indeed i'm I'm putting sold on the spot here. But what proportion of let's keep it to men's just for the sake of putting is a little bit less on the sports. What proportion of world number ones have been left connors mcenroe nadal a muster v last was left he wasn't he wasn't willing to ball not real real should have been with newcomer. Lefty david the pulse. I don't think you all's go-round but he wasn't well number one. My question being is it one of these things will be think of. Is this huge tennis advantage. But actually the steps in quite berry tout oversee a lot. Fewer of them yes. That's what i mean. Is it greater than the proportion of them in a tennis. I don't know i mean i. would i think of it as an advantage. Because of its rarity and the angle of attack can an an all sort of thing. A cable mackinlay. How make mcenroe. Righty how does that affect things definitely failed like it was an advantage to the fewer than seven. Slim's probably. yeah yeah. I think probably okay. We all righty. We are aren't we. Yeah is that where we're going wrong. I was very strangely for no reason and perplexed my coach very much. I was a right-footed ice skater. You guy do do everything else. Sorry a left-footed. Ice skater stone soup. All over again. And i will say much to my dad's distressed throughout my childhood easter me. Nobody would want to go into dinner date with me. I eat left-handed. I hope my knife and fork handed which i grew up thinking the most catastrophic etiquette era of all time. I've been told our pickup of guitar left handed. I just pick it up and then put down again. Went not trying to edge with tennis racket which eg turns out. I didn't know that right. But you're righty yes at everything everything right okay right well i mean the problem with this format is we will never know we will never ever choose frommatt that we can. I guess we should probably quote in a dull himself here with his. If doesn't exist oh let's just end. The phone will will need to create that after every suggestion much. We'll come back to you for the closing line if if if thank you adult for helping us out with us lighting those tennis matt. What would you like to submit. I'm gonna go back to what i think might be the loss law years. Maybe the end of the loss lawyers nine hundred nine ninety seven. David i mean to be fair. I in my life. I'm quite happy to to go back to ninety seven year again. Something nights seven well david. Susan's life yeah. I probably got good recollection of this. Because i'm out because this is actually perhaps a little bit of an overlap in terms of a sliding doors moment and a little bit of a lost in time. I think as well and this is martina. Hingis is season in nine hundred ninety seven. She is sixteen years old and she wins three of the four grand slams which i don't think he's probably talked about enough but i think perhaps one of the reasons why it's not talked about is the fact that she didn't win all four. She got to the final of the french open. She was denied by even my only in that final so she ended up winning three of the four slams that year but the the factors. She was not fully fit awfully prepared for that year's french open because if something which happened to her in april of that year and that's the kind of sliding doors moment i've chosen and that is that she fell off a horse in april of that year. Now who's writing was her hobby. It was something she did quite frequently actually fell off a horse right at the start of the year and at the australian open but she not very good at it but she wasn't injured in immobile crucially so she was able to go on and win that title however an eight pro. She wasn't she wasn't quite so lucky she was writing. Her friend's horse. Could tina this is. This is great great info terrible horse name great for her own hanna. Yeah that's more of a whole name. Yeah but also a stewart with. You can't do that. Ian julia carry on off. Opposers tool people have pets. Called julia tino. Maybe he does. He does david. There's no one to apologize. T as you wasn't what was fabulous cow shit. Schivonne julia act. That's it but yes she was. She was thrown from tina and injured her knee. It was discovered that she suffered a slight tear of the stereo crucial ligaments and yet should undergo surgery and austria. I guess the point is that this massively affected her preparation for roland garros. At the time of her surgery she was thirty. One now for the year she'd won titles in sydney melbourne. Tokyo paris miami and hilton head. Then she fell off the horse and she missed over a month of tennis. She missed all the road on garros leading events in hamburg rome and berlin and yet she came into the french open without the necessary preparation She's still managed to reach the final. But even when you look around you see that it's nowhere near as dominant as her other runs at the slams ya. She was pushed to three sets around. Two to gloria cini. Yeah gloria yeah. She was pushed to three sets in round. Four against barbara. Paulus your remember her and then again in the semi final against monica seles which you know might seem like a fairly standard run to a grand slam final but when you consider that she won every other grand slam that year dropping only one set in twenty one matches the fact she lost three sets in six matches kind of shows how slightly off a game. She was in clay. I think was one of her. Favorite surfaces really always remember. Mary carillo talking about how natural hingis was on clay and in the end she she gives a fairly flat performance in the final loses to a play. Playing brilliantly has to be said Six four six two and it just seemed from what i watched than what i've read that. Just a little caught up with her. She was flat. She started cramping in the final game. She did say that left. Knee was slightly hindering site lack of mobility. Perhaps i saw an interview with collins often which she gave she gave great credit to My only i was kind of expecting her to be a little bit Higgins about it she did. She did say as well that she was kind of running on fumes and one of the quotes afterwards. That was that it was a one do. I could even compete at this tournament. So i just think had hingis not fool enough the holes. We may very well be talking about a sixteen year old winning all four grand slams into season now. I know that once you've one two and three that does affect how you them play the full. We saw out with serena i think a few years ago that so much more pressure but she was so dominant and and so good the and young and without that mental baggage. Exactly almost she just she just played. The sport didn't didn't think about all of that. I think it's quite likely that she would one kind of slam. H sixteen and that would have been a point in tennis history that we will always be talking about this is it's a combination tarnish relived because we go the the bud collins into the lost in time because the chief of winning three year isn't talked about enough just because it wasn't for an sliding tennis because yeah i think i think you're right. I had had it not been fatina. Very very probably she would have won the coming to slam age sixteen. And that's about or be talked about all the time is the sliding doors moment. Just that tina caused the loss of the calendar slam which absolutely would have put in a a stratosphere alongside steffi graf basically nobody else in terms of essays that we look back on we talk about all the time or is it also what it might have done for the future if you if you consider how little she went after that relatively speaking Do you feel that is affected the rest of her career. I've always thought with hingis. The other sliding doors moment is that match. We relived against steffi graf roland garros that damaging defeat she had from what was setting a break up on steffi graf nine. Yeah and then i did. She win another slam after that. I don't think she did that to me. Is felt like the one where you can point to. Afterwards her. Not having the same success ever again. I think she's still one two more slams after the ninety seven season both in australia. I think but yeah. It's it's it's certainly a career which peaked so early on that i think there are probably lots of moments in english his career where you could think could she have done more. Catchy one more. I guess the thing is she. She would've absolutely knowing the risks she was taking by continuing to horse sort. I'm sure there were all sorts of people around the telling not to do that. Including insurance company. She wouldn't have been ensure today. The tennis plays cont gay skiing or sailing quite a lot of the time. They can't do anything. That's considered sort of high injury. Risk is they're not insured for it so she would have absolutely been aware If that risk. I'm not saying that means. Won't you know she deserved it. Oh she doesn't have any sympathy. It's not worth or speculating about what might have been. But it's interesting thought. Maybe that's the fearlessness of being sixty you think. Will it happen to me. But tina had other ideas so just to conclude. I definitely feel like this is a strong chance that we could have had. That is the legacy of her career. Is that one year in be talked about in a very different way. I am mindful that even mighty may just to play the match of life and taken that away from her regardless But i think that there's a very strong possibility that that it did rob hingis of memory in that moment. But i don't think it would have made it a huge tangible different to the rest of her career. I think the williams sisters were coming. Davenport was coming the too many big hitters for her and i also feel that hingis lost motivation lost desire and i think shook her when she started to lose a little bit Because she was so good and so dominant and i think surprised when she was unable to beat people anymore or beat them with regularity because i mean that year remember tennis vividly. It was bewitching what she could do and i thought she would go on. Yeah i did think she'd gone and dominate for years. Didn't see coming what happened in terms of the the opposition in the the way the opposition would affect her and and our own interest levels. I think she was. She had too many other interests if you like criticism of her in order to in order to be that ultra focused player and a little. Bit light with serena she she made she made comebacks so her career did have longevity of its own i. It just went in a different a completely different route. She she wasn't able to just keep coming back and get back to the same level again but she just there was a. It was kind of bone out. I suppose i like a bed. That's really far. I need something a little softer rest easy with the new sleep number. Three sixty smart. You can both adjust your comfort with your sleep number setting. Will it help with her snort. I snore does rudolph have a red nosed. Yes it can be gently raised on either side to help relieve snoring so you can really promise better sleep not promise prove prove. Quality sleep is life changing. Sleep don't miss a special save fifty percent on the sleep number. Three sixty limited editions market plus special financing ends monday special financing subject to credit approval minimum monthly payments required. See store for details on my first. Admission is probably almost undoubtedly the biggest and saddest sliding doors moment in tennis history. And that is the stabbing of monica seles sh- by a deranged steffi graf fan in hamburg in nineteen ninety-three. We touched upon it a bit. Didn't we with with elements of tennis relived in the summer. What might have been with. Monica seles and it served. It's a desperately side question but an interesting one as well. I mean she. She won her first grand slam aged sixteen in one thousand nine hundred ninety and actually before she won that slam and shortly before his death in one thousand nine hundred. Ted tingling who've was a famous tennis historian and tennis dress designer. He said monica seles. Is the most electric happening in tennis. The electric thing happening tennyson suzanne. Lenglen she lights up the court and can hit the ball harder than anyone. I've ever seen say she did become the youngest ever french open. Champion that year age sixteen. She beat steffi graf in the final stage. Steffi graf had one nine if the previous ten grand slam tournaments and then she ends that year by winning. Wj final she beats gabriella sabatini in the final tournament in first women's five-set match played since one thousand nine hundred ninety one which is amazing and then between nineteen ninety-one and of course april of nineteen ninety-three. She wants seven. If the eight grand slam tournaments she entered an had a fifty five and one record in them so in nineteen ninety-three a at the time of a she'd won eight grand slam. Titles in three is she had between nineteen ninety-one january nineteen ninety-one in february nineteen ninety-three. She made the finals of thirty. Three of the thirty four tournaments. She entered and she wanted to anti to them. She was the year a number one in nineteen ninety-one ninety-two i mean. She was completely and utterly dominant in the era of peak steffi graf and with martina navratilova still the and gabriella sabatini. Still there and yeah. I found some quotes from found. Some quite sure martina navratilova from sports illustrated a few years ago. Where navratilova said mentally. She was just so tough she was right up there with chris. Evert you couldn't cracker. You never got the feeling. She was panicked pissed off. Nothing you could not read body language up six four four love or down six four four love. She was mike hewlett and she lost a little bit of that not the hardness but the supreme confidence. She lost her edge. She says we would be talking about with the most grand slam. Titles this by the way is before serena got to twenty three or even twenty two. I should say these quotes. She said we'd be talking about monica with the most grand slam. Titles ahead of margaret court or steffi graf steffi had twenty but she didn't have anyone to play against this guy changed the course of tennis history no doubt about that And pam shriver. Unfortunately david you know. Have direct access to pam. Shriver the way you be having to use secondhand quote also from this celebrated article but she said the sad thing about the whole thing to me was that besides the physical and emotional harm. That was done to monica. One of our great champions. Is that this guy in the end. Good exactly what he wanted. Steffi graf won the next four slams off to monica seles with stabbed Instead of schools did return to the tour in ninety five and one one further slam the australian open and ninety-six something. I'd love to to relive at some point in the feature but something that says Tim adams in the observer in two thousand and nine off to her retirement. She said i'd grown up on a tennis court. It was where. I felt most safe and mesa secure. And that day everything was taken away from me my innocence my rankings or my income my endorsements they were all cancelled And it's obviously desperately sad. And i know i know. Some of what we were talking about with. Hingis applies that some of that relentless dominance might have been down to the fearlessness of youth is possible she naturally lost a tiny bit of that confidence anyway. Couple of bad losses in bad situations and suddenly there's mental baggage whether it never had been before will never know if she would have been able to keep up that dominance but eight grand slams by the age of nineteen and consistently getting the better of all arrivals and after that steffi graf goes on to win many more including the next four after that stabbing. I mean it's hard not to think that she which at the very least be worn off the all time greats in terms of numbers while i th. I think if you consider there was another. Five years before serena neuro venus. Were able to win a grand slam between the two Gives gives her a window before that becomes a possibility. Now as you say there are another unknown elements to the sliding doors. Nature of the story is to how she would have developed whether injuries have happened etc. Whether motivation would have remained the same based on the player that i witnessed in the stance that you just detailed their of eight grandsons by before. She's twenty And what i saw with my eyes. I think she would have won at least double what she ended up winning which was nine grand slam singles. Titles i was at that stage. It felt like there was nobody in her pass. And even steffi graf yes at wimbledon sheet to that one year ninety two but the french open win and the australian open final win of ninety-three were were grasp playing well and sandwich was still too much for So i i i think we may well have ended up with statistically the greatest player with ever saying we could saying that the way she went about her game That's one thing. Of course we'll never know but that's the whole point of sliding those tennis i do. I always thought that was a possibility. But i also think about it just in terms of the the human impact that it had on her and the the struggle she had afterwards to to kind of live a normal life as she would have known it on and she was in the early ninety. She was such an interesting character. She wasn't that popular to to be honest as i recall it. You know when she played graph more people supported. Graph is my was my feeling watching fans of a she. She'd been around longer And i don't think sell us always went down that wellwould people but she didn't care she just seemed to do around thing. She's cool runway in that regard. And and i just think she would have become a radi. Interesting person as a as a sort of trajectory would have been fascinated. Follow her story as it as it turns out. I think she's been in an inspiration in another way in the way. She's handled all this in more recent years but like god that the damage that it did to her wasn't just the physical wounds that day. It was the the mental damage. I mean she. She had couldn't play tennis for more than two years. Psychologically she couldn't do it. She couldn't go out there at all even when the physical wounds and long since hailed and the damage that it did to for the rest of her career her issues with her own self worth and weight and and all those things and then later in life anxiety. It's she would a let such a different life. i'm sure and You know th that's quite take but but at the same time i glory in her. If you ever get a chance to just match is of her in the early nineties playing these players. You mentioned particularly the of the french open and wimbledon runs. Okay she lost to graf in that final. What have a watch of her playing against martin oversell over in the nineteen ninety-two semi some time. At wimbledon it was just amazing and a match. She played against martina navratilova in the finals of rome. I think in one thousand nine hundred just before. She went onto a her first slam at the french open. Says she sixteen at this stage. I think it's think sheets a one two will something and martina comes off the court and says i feel like i've been hit by a truck and that was a sixteen year old is interesting looking back on the career of nadal and talking about him having to forehands she was like that didn't know which he didn't know which she played with from grand strokes they would just pistons the shots just coming at you. Like a bull machine was just firing these bowls a million miles an hour. You and there's and it really. And he never seemed to matter what spin you put on the bolts. What trajectory if it was a loop if a slide she would just hammer it at you mazing. Can i ask about her rivalry with graf. Because this is this is always fascinated me. I always think when this conversation comes up inevitably side of this is steffi graf wouldn't have twenty two slams if sash hadn't been stabbed and i think that probably is okay. You can't prove that it's true but it's most people agree with that. But what i find interesting is the is the effect the seller. They're and not being the seemed to have on graph. Because you've talked about how salish was starting to get the better of the rivalry with steffi graf. I was looking at those numbers. When when set it was stabbed the head to head was still six four and graphs favor but said i should one four of the last seven so it was still quite even but satish was starting to win more of them of their last four. The slams said i should one to the australian open and the french open graf at one on the foster surfaces with more than in the us open. But what i find most interesting is that from that pair. At the start of senators dominance from the start of nineteen ninety two the nineteen ninety three australian open graf took nine losses slams but only three of them were actually against salish. Lost nevada lost to garrison she lost. The sabatini shows the sanctions for cario twice and she lost never over so she was going through a little bit of a a slump against the rest of the field even taking outset. Then what happens to senator happens and graphs suddenly compete. Everyone again and she wins the next full so wasn't necessarily a big match problem that growth had against savage because when they met it was still quite even or was it just graph was going through a little bit of a slump during that period. Perhaps because she had for the first time a proper rival and then when that rival was out of the way it kind of freed her up against the rest of the field. That's kind of the impression. I've got just literally looking at the numbers in reading about that period. I don't know whether that fits in with with how you think about it. David would it feel to you at the time. I mean obviously obviously the he very sadly and unfortunately the the perception from good. Paul paul k poach he he committed the stopping crazed steffi graf fan. He's his intention was to take out the biggest obstacle to steffi graf being dominant so obviously whether in reality are not in his mind wanna cus with was a threat in that rivalry. How did it feel like to. At the time day. Because i i agree with him when i looked at the just on paper. The statistics that rivalry. It wasn't quite the the narrative the arc that was expecting to see i was expecting to see growth getting the better for at the beginning. Then a period of if it being quite even in this gradual sort of Taking over type curve isn't quite simplisafe dot. I was a steffi graf fan time before it was working in tennis. So when we went into those matches i was hoping graphic win. Eight felt by the time they got to ninety two. It felt like sex was just the superior plan and that the when they played each of the it was it was like being roger federal fan when your man plays the dow and you feel i dunno my. That doesn't really matter what they do can't seem to get the better this one now. You may. Well look at the six two six one scoreline at that wimbledon finals and say well graf hamster there. But i just don't feel that is probably representative of the rivalry. The grass have been dominant on clay. She'd won the eighty seven eight. French opens and yet she. She lost dance to sell it. Whilst playing brilliantly in the final still lost. The australian from was probably even more jarring. Because you know she. She beat us sixty third. I think sellers short afterwards Wimbledon was i think for two hundred plan on both sides trying to handle the low balances particularly the grass. In those days was was really difficult. So i kind of i. Whilst is a grant. Graph fan was pleased that she won that final sellers still worried me as a rival to her. She had the she was the antidote. Really i i also think it does need to be borne in mind that graph it already won the golden slam by that time in nineteen eight. And you wonder whether there was a motivation issue for her for a while just to keep on regenerating doing this. But i think i think that sells rattled. She was the only plan that she played. The when graf was at the very best would would still lose to That's how it felt at the time. Goes i mean it's a desperately sad. I keep making things sad. Anti i keep doing really sad. Submissions for my my Suggestions about we've got to accept. We've got news. We have to do news all right. Okay what we got sit we. Should we save our happy one. We do little tease about what's to come in sliding doors. Tennis on thursday already teased my henman. Right we've auditees that we've got quite a lot of federal related material coming your way for matt much points. That could have been tweet as on much points. Volleys missed yes. It is i and and the sad though pot for a one k. o. Real these listeners. In but yes. I should probably Devote the remainder of this podcast. I probably have done this at the beginning. But i was carried away with the post. David so we're going chronologically We'll bring you roy. Bring you up to date now with tennis news because we have a wj calendar for the start of the twenty twenty cs and we have confirmed men's and women's tennis for twenty twenty one. This is how the calendar looks from the fifth of january. We've got a five hundred. Of course they've they've rebranded the levels the tournaments w j five hundred From the fifth of january in abu dhabi then there is a qualifying from the tenth of january into by then like with the men's from the first february we have melbourne one and mobutu happening simultaneously and then from the eighth to february of couse the australian open and uh off that we don't night i'm sure talks etc Ongoing so we have a middle eastern swing and then we have a whole lot of melbourne. Same as we were talking about last week. I didn't have done a good job that they've done a clever job to work out a way to have a preview events in a An qualifying and then the corinthian and then another another tournament. Then the slam. I think i think they've done a really good job. Actually the tours of figuring out some sort of solution here still do stood of think. Now now that we've had what we've had happened here of tier four of for instance players getting to do by and from the uk and stuff like that. I haven't really considered those elements that this filth still feels like there are various barriers to to any of the stuff happening. settled commercials. I mean. we've been banned banned for his country's aren't we mean moons. Having shutdown even trade traits being closed down from this country is great being here. Isn't it closing in radio. We're going to run out of food soon okay. And then brexit. What a what a treat time. Podcast carried on. We've got clinging city. I found out that melbourne one in the atp side is being advertised as melbourne one slash. Because it's the it's the one that has been moved from adelaide. That's how that between them other than the one and two in terms of kind of geeky point stuff. That is quite interesting from. We're gonna have to call them both different tournaments. We're gonna have to call one of them like the what's it bank open brought to you by. What's it phone. And i'm going to have to cool the other one different bank different phone lights not gonna have any exclamation marks shimon punctuation allied. Anything we need during this pandemic is exclamation marks at the end of things But anyway tennis is going to happen in. That's that's great in typical sorry my chrysler. I was gonna say we've had the had the first drip-feeding of rumors about practice party. Oh yes well. Hang on. Chill i i'll i'll just bringing news of The fact that in typical australian open fashion ebbing very bullish about he's going to go Who's going to play there. To create said every player including roger has made a commitment to to travel to The australian open we've got We've got quite some federal. Have we lost quote from him and what we discussed last week saying it's a race against time for him to be fit but but quite totti's that every play including roger has made a commitment to travel to mobile to play we have been in touch with him and his team and it's been three days now. He's hit for the first time in dubai. He's in his normal. Preseason training training routine is like he's Federal peo- did say that february eight with a more take for him in terms of preparing the australian open but a lot will depend on how he responds to his surgery. In the next two to three weeks of training. No specific mention of serena. I'd be very interested to know what her thoughts are at the moment In terms of restrictions and quarantine plans in place cray tardy said if there are any breaches of quarantine. The play will be immediately removed from the country as well as being fined And i believe the restrictions are that The players are in in quarantine hotels. They all allowed five hours of the day. Not a minute more outside their hotel rooms. And that's slow. Stop as two hours for training with the designated practice partner mornings of that in a moment. Two hours jim. Time and then an hour if is allowed for transit time and very specific Shuttles will be laid on for plays. They're only allowed to eat in the vicinity of the training and the their team and we are starting to get news of tennis training buddies. Yes i. I'm sorry in on this exciting. We we've heard the dow and cinna is apparently a first week pairing and then they're going to join up apparently with schwartzman and rinca who are also a first week pairing and in the second week you're able to become a four own right right. Imagine some of the awkward conversation need to know is tricky for sinner. because you comment. Isn't it all the best practice part of him. I didn't i didn't spend the whole time is because he can have his pick presumably. Nobody's turning down. If if you just said. I don't really. I don't even want to francis with the for far too long five hours a day everyday if it's waste t to our to our practice and then you do your thing in the gym. I mean it could be awkward. I couldn't imagine when you get. Jilted is such a unicorn. Listen in terms of the way he plays. You don't feel like it's necessarily good practice for the rest of the field. But i guess for someone like cinemas interesting to see how the dole trains I wonder whether the has picked him because he wants to slightly work him out a little bit. Sin a senate trouble at the frank show more than any other player in that tournament. Statistically you'd be thinking as a right-hander i mean how many left-handers among some gonna play with him. I think to the women. It's going to be very interesting because generally speaking they prefer to hit with male hitting partners. And you say oh. They can hit but their coach. But i believe for caught space purposes that she have to hit with another player. There isn't sufficient space on practice. Schools them to have the luxury of of hitting hitting with a hitting partner. So that is going to be very interesting. They say much less accustomed to to practicing with with one another. I think it happens a little bit more than than it used to but relative to the men's story it's it's extremely rare and i don't think we've heard any any rumors or half. We know just thinking maybe mom fees will. Oh yes Is that the best thing won't fees. And does he care. Well there is possibly not Yeah that that's gonna be interesting. Are there any other tennis ships at the moment. There's unexpected yulia gurgaon. Wesley cool off but she's just retired. I'm sure she can appear Him partner She's retired to get away from all that. Think two weeks in the bubble that you know the tournament has in mind. Yeah oh this is my favorite element of all of it. All this surveillance stuff. That tennis australia does. This is what they need to be. Put in these cameras also david. Yeah yeah we need to know how these conversations are happening. Kohl's yet we won't video of the sessions. Give it give it all to me yeah. Hopefully there'll be more more news on that front by by thursday. Imagine if you didn't get to pick and all the names just went and a hat or match at that should be happening or draw. Yes like in the. Us sports just get left on the show. Yeah i mean we all know. He's on on shelves gently interesting. I think i read a piece in keep account limit who the quote was from. But they were saying that. Nobody wants to pick college. It's called still. He would have to qualify with me but you know yes and then. Nobody wants to play with him. At all should presumably janis and riley appel ker going to have the same problems. They'll have to go with one another way. That's either we just like to do. Across drill topspin backhand topspin backhand design. Can try i can try only got a slide. The big service will have to go with one another surely polka and is ner. i predict. we'll maybe it's never inquiry. Nobody wants query. Ben walker is on. That show isn't he bowmore wallpaper in curious compartment. They'd have a great time. They got really famous. There's two yeah. But ben more pair is of seems like a high covid risk. He's the he's the card player. I wouldn't want to be in a bubble with ben. Moshe put it that way. He's not he's on top of my list. A draw the bubble with nick curious. The curious don't you think curiel soul take pity on sits pass. I think that might happen. I think you'd have stephan stefanik. Yes because i think sits pass is liable to be left on the show and i think this is a bit of a sort of flake protective. E-eh slightly doesn't want him to get a the cool kid kind of protect him from getting bullied. Very was the bully for a while yet. But i think he's remorseful about that. Yeah i think curious could end up actually getting a female his partner. Yeah maybe if if they want him or well yeah putting himself out there for all to women everywhere and nobody takes you up on. And that's that's stephanus women but We're gonna have to go with these singers. You're on the show. It's going to be blake. And i think they'll be. They'll be on the show together the other news that i've got well. Is it news. We had we've had some battles. Brits kind of formalized practice much is taking place at the national tennis centre organized by the l. ta and jamie murray as with the previous incarnations of the brits it's slightly less competition feely it's stephanie. Sort of practice much is being broadcast. Male made available for for people to watch and yesterday. We saw donovan's against andy murray. She say it had almost feel of dominic same again on record australia. You know it was it. Got all the the looks of a match but it was effectively a practice match but my word where they go out i. The first set was seven six. It was now in twenty four minutes many of his really good competition. They were rusty. Obviously but i felt a real signs of encouragement from ari. there he. I've often been struck by how stiff he looks out on. Colton in recent months and seventy felt like that. Leon this match but that left him missed as the set wore on a needle palu cerny looked like he was running full pelted. Balsam trying to hit the ball. Harder and Yeah i thought it was really encouraging front. He g think these two would want is the participant in australia. We'll take each other each other I have no inside info toll on that. I'm just thinking they get on pretty well And probably competitive both of them. Which i think is probably important. What did you think injury risk. Let's say that makes him slightly less desirable. Yeah i. I don't know i feel like murray needs someone who can build up strength against. That's that's still my concern with mary when we've seen him over five cents at the last two slams how he just hasn't quite had in his lakes it seemed It needs more of a bull machine type. maybe that would net grim out. I don't know that that that feels like where the issue is. Because as david says his tennis still looks really shot when he is by well always sunny good to save them going full throttle at one. Another made me look forward to tennis. Happening been up for a while january fifth four ways that now to in a whole two and a half weeks said about right it will in that face. The time loses all meaning. All i know is the in three days. I'll have a puppy. Yes that's that's the news we won't yet clams to retrieve gene have been accelerated and by the next podcast recording. I will have a puppy on my lap. Cool we get an extra extra podcast. Yes yes. I'm sure she will be vocal. So we'll we'll be back with more sliding doors. Tennis weren't me on on thursday Enjoyed this one and yeah any other news said it to me later on the news. I miss misinterpreted your your facial expressions. David what a half goal is a couple of obituaries that i just wanted to mention because of the past couple of weeks tennis has lost a couple of significant figures. One of which was gordon. Forbes who is the author of a handful of summers and a couple of other books about his life in tennis in the fifties and sixties he's died at the age of eighty six and there's a really good pitcher written on the atp to a website by richard evans. Who's one of the longest standing members of the tennis media. And you may remember contribution to our gibson authorized podcasts. Recently ann richards wrote about golden forbes. Bena very good tennis himself. and roland garros doubles runner up a wimbledon semi-finalist but he said a better writer A said he was a writer of unique style and observation. Writer with the price. This gift of sprinkling stardust on the characters who inhabited his books turning back ends and banter into tales infected with laughter and forbes himself wrote about his own star play quite quite fascinated into to witness his his self deprecating style of writing and he said rushing the net under really slow italian court while using the peretti balls of the early sixties was an eerie experience. Like being in a movie half of which was speeded up while the other half was in slow motion. I was the speeded up part. I'd come barreling up to the net only to arrive there far too early and have to hop about in a frenzy of suspense while my opponent who often seemed to be a trench leo merlo decided on which side to pass me. And i mean i i i would love to go back and read those books now. Actually just having read that passage to become a handful of summers is an incredible book. I would if anyone wants any kind of insight into what life was like as an amateur tennis player. Top top one amateur. In that era of the fifties and sixties. It's so full of anecdotes and It's just it's a different world. It's a it's a chronicling of a different world. You know. I think if you had a tennis book now so much of it would be set in gyms and practice courts and this is set in bars and restaurants and it's it's so many great stories beautifully told. It's it's one of the all time great tennis books. I think literally ordering. When i was in as we speak the other person i wanted to mention was dennis ralston. Who was runner-up wimbledon in singles in one thousand nine hundred sixty six and a five time doubles grand slam champion. He's died at the age of seventy eight. As what is being a very good tennis player. He was highly regarded coach. I always remember this from my earlier. Years of following tenants and chris evans played rich tribute to him on twitter she. She was coached him for six years. And very funny about him. Ask gabriella sabatini. Who was also coached by dennis ralston. And yeah i thought the with the family and friends are both of them in very sad news that both of them have passed In the past couple of weeks absolutely paul said and other side night to end. We just can't help ourselves but we hope you enjoyed the podcasts and yeah with thinking of thinking of everybody. That's struggling with grateful. So grateful to be funded for next year so that we know will be able to keep bringing these podcasts. Come what may we'll be back with another one on thursday puppy into and we can't wait to thank you and We'll speak to them. Let's be real dealing with tangled cords can make it harder to do your hair break free with the new unbound. Cordless auto curler from conair get the curls and waves. You want anytime anywhere. It's designed to let you experience the power and freedom of beauty in motion. No courts to hold you back. You get your curls and waves your way unplug and be unbound loose curls tight curls beachie waves the unbound cordless auto curler makes it easy to get the looks. You love love your look. Live unbound available at conor dot com and search unbound.

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Wimbledon Re-Lived 2004: The making of an unrivalry

The Tennis Podcast

1:09:55 hr | 8 months ago

Wimbledon Re-Lived 2004: The making of an unrivalry

"Hi, this is Marian Bartholdi. Mats, Wilander. This is Mary Carillo. I'm stunned rowing. I'm Lleyton, Hewitt. This is Yannick. Noah, and you're listening to. PODCAST. Hello folks and welcome once again to the tennis podcast. Wimbledon relived day ten. Day Ten and a trip. On a trip back in time to two thousand and four, when Afghanistan, held its first democratic elections, Hamid Karzai was elected. Ninety percents of homes on the island of Grenada were destroyed by Hurricane Ivan facebook was launched to Harvard. Students If anyone's seen the network, or if you haven't watched chicks, it's a great film. That documents the genesis of facebook Janet Jackson had a wardrobe malfunction. The Super Bowl that was the story. Anyway Ronald Reagan died widely enough. I was watching a documentary about Ronald Reagan M. This morning. Just. Just, because a really interesting. Good yeah very interesting. With the House has the loss of relevance for the world now. Queen Mary. Two. The largest cruise ship ever is christened by the. Queen not get time for cruise ships at the moment. But those were Halcyon days and Pavarotti performed his last opera. TOSCA in New York. I've run out of births. Only extremely young people were being born in two thousand four. So. Yeah, no more birds but Perotti last lost opera. That's a lot for two thousand and four. How long how long ago sixteen years ago has co-coping born yet? Bush's turned. Sixteen hasn't shared I guess. She was born in two thousand and four. She was I. Did I didn't make the List David? Yes. He exposed the floor in the list. Coca Goff was born I. Mean other people were born to is just most of them. Aren't yet of Note March thirteenth. Two thousand fourteen ends up. I say them I finished my levels and left school. That was the thing that happened in two, thousand and four. Joe Is. Carpet better than mine. Oh now you've mentioned it. David. They went very well. Yes. Yeah no complaints and Thousand Four. Me Oh well I was. Yeah trying to build a business and work in tennis after having left the ATP and done say, and I've been working and commentator and. All that sort of thing I know still eight years shy of. Oak Catherine what we should do, start attendance podcast. How do you met your wife yet? You've been on the straight narrow ahead, yeah? Unfortunately I'd somewhat on the straight and narrow before Bateson, otherwise I was not. To. Be Honest. But, what were you up to? What developmental stage where you at? I would love to say that I can remember tennis from two thousand and four, but was still just a little bit shot of my being able to remember I was at school. Actually. Moved from Surbiton for those people familiar with the HP Anatole told a gross goal event and serves a great tennis club. The air is really nice. Club have lots of grass courts of bubble in indoor season and It's the perfect place ready to grow up to get interested in tennis. And yet we lived in literally a stone so away and I showed no interest whatsoever in tennis and we moved suddenly. Tennis was my thing. So I can't really explain that. You would wrenched away from tennis hub in your. There was literally right there. Thank how? Could be the opening chapter in your Topography Mount. Speaking of autobiographies that is something that will becoming I rather suspect a lot in today's port because we're covering the two thousand and four Wimbledon, women's final between seventeen year old Maria Sharapova. two-time defending Wimbledon champion Serena Williams the opening chapter in what we thought was going to be a great rivalry at the time, and did not turn out to be any kind of rebate definitely did turn out to be something worthy of our attention today just just not a rivalry. I. Watched watching it back. Could you guys just now does stead the memories of how it felt back then to be covering that match to be watching match would have at Wimbledon. commentating on it, but I was doing interviews around it. And Maria Sharapova I admit the year before. And interviewed on Five Live was when she was still really early stages, I think she'd probably rate about third round or something like that and I remember after one of wind. She'd said I want to be well number one. It was category. There was no I mean. Every player wants to be that, but there was. A sense within her that she was at. On a mission and nothing was going to get an away. When she played Serena Williams in this match I I remember following the progress she had she had a win over Daniela Hantuchova in in the early rounds of the tournament, and there's just a feeling that she really was starting to make her way through the draw in a way that. It was on and when she beat Serena. It was such a shock. The way the action folded to me at least that I thought she was. GonNa be. The next big star to dominate a genuinely thought this woman if she can beat Serena Williams in the way that she's just beaten her, and it was very one-sided scoreline. Competitive Parts within the match, but I thought she was going to dominate the sport and a multiple Wimbledon champion, and she's actually achieved some great things in the sport and I think a friendship entitles titles are the biggest of the achievements to to my mind, but she didn't do what I thought she would do given that performance. She was a seventeen seventeen years of age, but but not a total bolt from the blue in that tournament. I mean yes, she. She wasn't an expected champion by any means, but she was a thirteenth seed going in mma yet thirteenth-seed, she just reached her first Grand Slam Kuta final at the French Open and the big. The big tour was this kind of Russian Russian Revolution in the game. That was the first Tournament won by rush. I tournament won by Russian, Woman Myskina beating Dementieva in that. Horrible. Which? Just go back to our worst grunts finals epicenter. Is Front and center of that one and then Sharapova went to Birmingham and one on the grass before Wimbledon. But actually something that I had forgotten. Is that Serena Sharapova? Actually played before this wouldn't final. They played in Miami. Earlier that year, so two thousand and four Miami was the first match of both the federal adult, Lori and the Serena Sharapova. On rivalry, let's go with. Let's go with Christopher Kyrie's word because I can't think of a better description for it's. Quite interesting that those two that those two. Sort of its both there and the interesting thing. Is that Serena one really quite comfortably. It was her first tournament back. Since Wimbledon the previous years, we had a knee injury in two thousand and three season. She paid some Sharapova Beata six, four, six, three, fairly comfortable I looked up the transcripts of the press conference, and there's no questions to Serena. Told about, or she pushed you that Sharapova what you think of her? Are you going to have a rivalry with her? No sense of it all. It's all about. How Serena's feeling, so I think as much as Sharapova did have a little bit of form going into Wimbledon. It's also interesting to note that just three or four months prior to. When would nobody was talking about her? As any kind of threat to Serena yet? Also in terms of Serena and of course, Venus as well. Sadly, it was about eight months prior to this Wimbledon. The the sister had passed away not. Tragic drive-by sheeting in Angeles and we we know how much that affected of them and I'm sure continues to affect both of them. Would absolutely horrifying thing to to have to go three. And also on a slightly different night in terms of what Serena was experiencing this Wimbledon Venus. Who was the third seed Serena was the top seed. Myskina was the second seat the tournament Venus the third seed. She had lost herself in in a very memorable match that Wimbledon for the wrong reasons in the second round to Carolina. Spam in in a match which is known for the Umpire Ted Watts British Empire cooling the school wrong in the first set tiebreak he was later removed from the roster at Wimbledon and I might be wrong, but I've certainly not heard Vincennes it was. It was a terrible blunder. He got the school wrong in the tie-break. Catalina Sperm Walnut tiebreak on that much. She's incidentally now. The wife of Marcus Spike data's. and Venus having lost so early didn't stick around. To to watch and support Serena as she so often has now I'm sure there was no bad feeling about that a tool but It it's pretty documented that that was something that that affected Serena her sister, not being around when she'd been so used to being around and I'm sure having been through that awful experience of losing their sister less than a year before this sort of the camaraderie between the two of the must've been. At its most significant and most important in some ways at that point in their lives, and I think also just in terms of not playing Venus in the final, Serena's last six grand, slam finals had all been against Venus. This was the first time she paid someone other than her sister. Since our very first grand, slam final, which was against Hingis, and I think. That must have been a sense of just unfamiliarity, and just not feeling as comfortable as she normally fell in the slam grandfather against Venus. I don't I don't buy into any of that narrative. The those matches were in any way fixed the tall, and there was a there was an awkwardness about those matches as a match up, but there was also a sense that Serena could be comfortable playing Venus because. She knew her game so well knew each other's game so well and if she lost, she knew she was at least losing Venus says to suddenly have someone like Sharapova, more of an unknown quantity coming up against in a final. I can under- I can understand why. Serena maybe wasn't quite as sharp or as ready for this on some final is as other ones. We've just reached extended highlights at the much this morning. And David you commented during that that you think it's the first time you've seen any of it since he watched it live at the time. How did what still this morning matchup to memory of it? I suppose I've been looking at more for the tennis than the storyline was back then there was a shock factor to the way because their mind Serena Williams at one. She'd held all four grand. Slam titles just a year earlier, and was the absolute dominant force in the game in the eyes of a soul, rarely even if she wasn't winning all the slams at that particular point, the failing was you get ahead of a final? She wins and this young player. Well, it'll be interesting to see how she copes, and because, because of the one sided of the school line, and I think the celebration afterwards from Chiappa over. If you just watched it back, she's upset. YOU DELIRIOUS! She's a she's very giggly. You can see her youth in that moments, and it is lovely, actually just overwhelmed. She is by it all. And then that moment where she's tried to call her mother on the mobile phone and doesn't get through and it gives her. The, the word is that it ended up resulting in a in a mobile phone sponsorship deal that she managed to get out of it but my failing at the time was that we were witnessing a real. Rival to Serena full the next ten years in in a way that wasn't going to result in Serena. Williams Twenty Sharapova, to which is what the robber ended up as so watching it back now I think. Shop over serve looks better to me this pre all the shoulder problems and surgery that she had. But I think the biggest difference is the way that Serena Williams approaches matches with her. These is and what we've become used to. Which is just taking the initiative from bowl one serving into the corners, putting shop on the back foot, stretching out wide. and. What we saw in this match. Is The ball was? Coming to shop over in a way that she could just take the initiative, it was a three quarter pace balls, three quarter length a lot of time, not going out wide, and you put those balls to championship will knock you around. It's just the these days. And over the last ten fifteen years, it seemed like she would. She would still try to play aggressive tennis of balls. That were just not there to be aggressive off because Serena wouldn't wouldn't give her any chances. There was a very alluring fearlessness about Sharapova that day. Wasn't that just saying? I mean of course youth eat helps somebody with that steely look in their eyes that is determined to to seize the occasion in the moment. Not Be count by yet interesting. You use the word fareless because I found a a quote from our favorite source of quotes, Martina Hingis at the time. Who who said she reminds me of myself for how? For How fareless she's. Sensitive and actually they would both end up as a five time grand, slam champions think they both have very. Different approaches to playing tennis, but similar sort of outcome in terms of career output in the end. Yeah! I thought that was great. It's funny as as as the on rivalry in sort of later feud. I space developed. We'll talk about that more bit bit later. Digging out quotes from the both of them. This verbal slingshots each way all of them could be Martina, Hingis quote. He was a trial absolute trailblazer for mud-slinging. Show we hate for America. He also remembers that final in great detail. She was the covering it of course, and and and we'll went on to unfold between the tooth and move the course of the next fifteen years. Yeah Mary's recollections of that final in two thousand and full, that really was an impressive. I think. I almost feel like saying that Serena wasn't prepared. For Sharapova to be ready for that match for that win. And Serena obviously was dug in I. Think I think it surprised everybody that. Every Sharapova looked at the court in salt winners and then hit him. That was a big surprise, and I guess looking back now with. The benefit of hindsight is more surprising that. The rivalry. Ended that year basically. Show one more time against Serena and then. Again. Serena relished playing. Sharapova she? She wanted that match and after our time truly share public didn't feel the same way. How much about the way that an rivalry unfolded was about that that Wimbledon final. Oh I think. Serena held onto it. She was onto. It's still. I absolutely believe that I think and keep in mind. Maria became a millionaire that day multi-million. And she became. She became the wealthiest female athlete of all time in the coming years, and she became a brand. She's the first person I. Tennis player that I ever heard that word attached to. And it still bothers me that burden bubby carry on because everyone's got. Did them. Did Serena Take Sharpei lightly that day. Wondering? I, I, don't know that she I can't imagine that. She took her lightly, but I think. My guess. And I'm not sure to read whatever agree with this more confessed to it. It's true, but I just don't think she thought. Seventeen year old Russian kids who had never want a major was ready to win it there. That day against her. That would be my guest. You know sometimes when someone's playing that well in a match you figure. Oh well. They'll cool down. They'll. They'll cool off in all. Come come good. And that just never happened in that match, and that was an unblinking. Sharipova. You know going for big shots and they were all landing that day. Sometimes you figure all right when it gets tight, you know. This kid's GonNa start shaking and she never did. Is that the fearlessness of youth. But also look Sharon. Provo worked hard I. Mean I don't I think some of it is a function of age, but Sharon public carriage herself always when I was watching the kid from the time, she was very young at voluntary's. She had a certain carriage tour. She had a there was A. Even then went to. The kid hadn't done anything yet. There was an air of inevitability around Maria Sheriff Koba. She. Not like she was to the man or board or anything like that I, mean she and her dad were struggling to make ends meet as she was training to be a champion. But that kid and I don't know if you've read share his books. The first half of her book, I find absolutely fascinating because she talks about what the struggle is. Link and I didn't like the second half as much. I believe the second half as much but. Boy when she talks about. What the how high risk I mean! That was a high wire. ACT The two of them over here in and doing that and I think she. She knew she had to work as hard as she did I think. She played that Wimbledon final against Serena. She felt like she earned the right to be there. So is that? Is that part of youth to? Or is that just her I? Belong I bloom. I'M GONNA. Kick you off a long. The insights you get from her autobiography all fascinating and I. Do agree with with Mary the. It. Sort of Put in terms of my reaction to it very much split into part. One Party. That highway ranks is married describes the the story of her. Youth in her parents decision to to move her to to to Florida such a young age. All of that is fascinating and it's will say. Defining Maria shower declined own mind as somebody that had to triumph over adversity defined as. An underdog, and in and in some respects, a victim and I think she carried that through to other aspects of her life and her career and her rivalry Serena in ways that were perhaps not appropriate I think in her own mind, certainly her autobiography in the second half of it, and she deals along with with her relationship with Serena. She characterizes herself as sort of a victim in that in that relationship somebody that. Had to triumph over adversity in there's a sort of failure to acknowledge the definite disadvantages that Serena Williams had relative to. Relative to her you. It wasn't until twenty sixteen that Serena Williams overtook Sharapova Sharapova his eleven year reign as the highest paid female athletes in the world. It took a doping ban. For Serena Williams to become a higher than Maria Sharapova and I. Don't I don't Begrudge Rain Sharapova the inducement deal she had. It's it's not is. It wasn't up to her. What people were prepared to pay her? And what they were prepared to pay her relatives Serene to Serena, but there is a real failure. To big. These privileges and the benefits that she enjoyed as a result of her advantages. Because I. think she perceived herself naught as somebody in in a position of advantage because if she experienced in her youth. While than that was very well, said very interesting. Experience of the bulk I haven't read. The book of red x accepts from. It extracts spat. Yet in terms of how my perception of her in a career versus how it became that characterizes, my feelings, my reaction to her as a player over the years and a person I don't know. Maria Sharapova I've interviewed a couple of times very briefly, but in the is I I did find. Refreshing addition to the second I thought she was going to go on and become a great and I think she did exceptionally well overall but i. do feel like the reaction of. The markets and the business to her was. Washington line what she was doing on the colts, it was far outstripped I. Mean as you say you take what you can get as a as an athlete in terms of these deals, but. I found I. didn't find her Sur. Certainly, in the as the years went on particularly likable, I felt very detached. Pretty condescending to be honest with us in the media room. And that's that's her choice and I. Don't know what it's like to be on her side of the desk, but I found her not that easy to to to relate to. Because of the way she carried herself. And yet I mean there were there were a lot of stories went there between the two of them and. Got Pretty. Unpleasant really at times. I think the way. Shop over set herself. Against Serena's. You've described that Catherine. I I became aware of that actually quite recently. With Seeing the reaction of Serena fans on social media to their match, in New York last year, and Charipova his retirement where. That's the reason that they don't like Charipova. The Serena fans the way shower over presented herself as kind of other compared to Serena didn't acknowledge Serena struggle, and I think. I mean as I mean the Serena fans can mobilize very quickly on social media, but there was. There's a real resentment and animosity there and you know they would. When sharp over retired. They were saying. What am I going to miss some of it was it was a montage of to Serena winning matchpoints against, Sharapova they? They will have a home. The. School if that rivalry twenty two to make that point and I think is a perfectly valid point this idea the. Serena's all sites overcome a lot, and that needs to be recognized, and she's far better player than Sharapova, and deserves to have also earned more. From It. And I would say she's probably a far better plan against Sharapova. Then against anybody else because all of this fueled her desire to to to play even better to to win more I. think just on a micro level against champ over specifically and. As I, said it got pretty unpleasant is believed there was. A. Point where Griego Dimitrov was romantically linked with Serena Williams then he went out with Charipova, and they were commenting on on one another's. Relationships and the was some words from Chap over back Patrick more which would you like to hear these words? Yeah. The mudslinging as it fizzle circa twenty. So, this is. Twenty thirteen. And I guess it starts well not start, but this episode starts in an interview Serena did. In Rolling Stone magazine, and there's quite a few quotes, but I think the punched one is in reference to Sharapova. She begins every interview with I'm so happy I'm so lucky is so boring, says Serena. Quote she still not going to be invited to the cool parties and hey, if she wants to be with the guy with the black cart, go for it now grigor. Dmitrov is not named the, but everyone's understanding is the her reference. That is to Greg Demonstra Sheriff pavers response to this when it was put to her was to say if she wants to talk about something personal. Maybe she should talk about her relationship with her boyfriend that was married and is getting a divorce in. Has Kids talk about other things, but not draw attention to other things. She has so much in her life. Many positives and I think that's what she should talk about. And that most people take as a reference to a new relationship. With with Patrick, Moore totally Of. Course is still her coach And no longer Hariri, lava. Yeah say that. was that was when it started to get really really personal, and that was when he that was when Serena kind of let lucile the Hingis esque stuff about how one sided the the rivalry was. She would talk about how much she loved. Playing Sharapova is a quote from her in two thousand fifteen, saying I love playing here. I think it's fun I. Just have the time of my life. which you know, why wouldn't you at that point it's? Guaranteed win, isn't it that certainly how it is in in her mind? She's just completely got a number and it's obviously a win. That gives her. As much satisfaction, if not more than any other so I mean. Yep, you could totally those words coming out with Martina Hingis Mouse Kidney. I mean if you wanted to show a non tennis fan. Made Serena so great. You just roll roll the tapes of Serena Playing Sharapova because those were the matches where she found her best tennis when she needed it when she was more powerful when she was more intelligent to hone in on an opponent weakness, all the best aspects of her game athleticism were. Always most out in when she played. Charipova and I think. I think it is born in this Wimbledon two thousand and four final quote Serena gives off to its, but she says I don't like to lose to the same person too many times. You look at Venus and I. When we lose to someone, we go home and we try to ameliorate things. So there was a as recognition immediately off that final that she wants to put things right. And she went on to lose to in the W championships at the end of that year. And then beat her for the second time to level the rivalry in two thousand five Australian. Open saving two match points, and then from there, so many of the matches was straight-sets. I mean dominant performances from Serena and. I, also think. Serena really had a problem with the way Sharapova talked about in the book I think suing mentioned over one hundred times in the book and Charipova. references to four. Wimbledon final sign that when I heard when I came into the locker room with Serena, Williams Bowling guttural salts. I got out as quickly as I could, but she knew I was there and people talk about Serena strength to serve her confidence, and how her gay matches up against mine and this truth tool that, but the on such a why she's had my number is that? That in the locker room where I was changing and she was boiling. I think Serena hated me for being the skinny kid who beat her against all odds. Wimbledon is this is quite vodka to give language, and I think Serena would cool that pure hearsay, and really did have a problem with it and you know they didn't make too many times after these quotes came out. But, clearly that had been under the surface for a long long time and To fueling Serena's motivation in in order they matches, and even if I mean, let's let's accept his truth Serena Williams crying in in the locker room after losing that final, which is not an unusual thing for for defeated play to be devastated by loss, sh-. She's layering that moment with the interpretation that it was personal and to do with her being what she perceived as the antithesis. Of Serena there's something that makes me really uncomfortable about the use of if skinny kid that because she's hinting at a contrast between her and Serena which. which really makes me uncomfortable. As does her her reference in the book I mean there's there's a few little turns of phrase like this you know. I I think everybody seen a the the quote about having thick arms and thick legs, and being intimidating and strong, but I think what's actually even more telling than that is the comments she makes. About Serena, which is until really tool? Now. Our between three and four inches taller than Serena Williams. Safer Maria Sharapova to be commentator commenting on her. Heights like that? I find extremely bizarre and again. I think hints. Her perception of herself as this sort of. Underdogs slight slight in every way in contrast to to Serena Williams's bows and This perception of herself as the underdog somebody that triumphed over over adversity in in the face of this angry aggressor and I think they're all unconsciously lot of racist tropes going on there. which we've reference that we've probably all been guilty of to certain extent over the years, but. But it makes me uncomfortable reading it now and I can absolutely understand why. That was fuel to to the five Serena Williams. Would you, said the line about three or four inches taller. I thought you issue I was assuming you meant Serena saying that. You know she site till Sharapova well. Yeah! It's very. Very very insightful that line I find bound. Her perception of herself, relative to to Serena and you know I'm not. I'm not diminishing her her struggle that she went through the stages of her career. But you can, you can embrace your rain struggling and be defined by as much as you like, whilst also acknowledging struggle. If if others I think that's the problem. She's completely failed to acknowledge her hub privilege relative to to Serena's even if she's had a disadvantages. Along the way and Nazis that is problematic for me. But? FATU plays with a total lack of tennis rivalry over the years. They certainly give us an awful lot to talk about that me. And it's clearly. Mentioned that the the number of mentions of Serena in the shower, burke, it's clear I. mean she even says it? She says she says her own career has been defined by Serena Serena Williams marked the heights and the limits of my career. Our stories are intertwined. and. Yeah I think that's true, but with Serena. Say the same. I think she'd go out of a way not to, and she'd probably. I would imagine she would underplay. The imperative of Xiaopeng, advising regarded as having had no impact toll on a really Whereas I think it. Did I think that two thousand and four match did help energizer I. Think if we've seen anything from the Michael. Jordan documentary. He was always finding causes to to keep. The motivation fires burning, and this was definitely one. Consciously I. Think I think shop over just wander up and she. She wanted to Beta. I think we're aware we. Discuss sharp papers. We have the WOOLMER's around. The quite is the last few months because we've obviously had to had to retirement and took to bad reloaded the French Open and now this. We're aware that that we'd ain't. We don't know her that well. We've not had the opportunity to get to know her. and that's totally her prerogative how she's wanted to do with the media over the years, but it is. It's a bit of a hindrance in giving. A fully balanced picture so David has spoken to Michael. Joyce among that worked with Maria Sharpei of for good portion of is about seven years. To get his perspective on on Maria and actually starts off by talking about the fact that he could have worked with her for longer than that even starting from before that Wimbledon final. Actually had a choice They're trying to get me to work with her and I. Am also Alexandra Stevenson remember of. Alexandra. I actually chose I. Actually chose Alexander over her. So that shows you how much I know. I I was literally like I'd play couple of hours with Maria and then a couple of hours Alexandra and I was like thinking I wasn't. I was like I. Don't Know How long I'm GonNa do this coaching. Four and I was big I. Think Alexandra could do better like short term and. And, then literally like a year later Maria Wins Wimbledon so F- showed you how much I knew about ten. So is in close contact with her. I just I just at the time felt like Alexander was a better. Choice for me like at that time. Maria was only sixteen. She turned seventeen in April so was only a couple couple months before Wimbledon. So, what are your memories of? Before she won Wimbledon. The first time I met her when she was like nine her coming on the court. I never hit with somebody like that young. And I was Kinda hitting like easy with her, and then her dad Yuri didn't speak English. That much maybe a little bit, but I remember him saying to me, it's okay you can hit it hard her. You can hit it hard. You know at so. I knew her at that age and then I always Kinda saw her every year more or less. Less so I remember her at sixteen when I spent a lot of time with her remember, she grew like a lot when she was like fourteen, fifteen, fourteen or fifteen, so she was really tall, and I remember like pretty weak like you know. She hit the ball really well, but she didn't move that great and she was kind of a little uncoordinated. You know. She hit really good like straight on boom boom boom, but like the other parts of her game were Kinda missing you could. but she always would try I like I could be a five one, and she would be like never like get down on herself. She get a little disappointed if she was losing whatever, but she was always trying. You know trying so hard. Whether I one, one and one or two and two, and it say like every game she was fighting for you know, and that always stuck out to me at that. When she was that age, I was like girls, really like competitive, and it was good to like. I can tell her things. You know from being a player myself. I tell her a little bit and between games or something I'd say I, think you. You know you should come to net more on this or that or whatever and she was always like really willing to Issue is really willing to listen. And everybody always had this misconception that Yuri was there every second, but it was actually when she's the when we used to have a lot of our practices and stuff used to go skin like cup in mammoth, and I won't see him for three or four days and. Say to me. Hey, you know when you hit with Murray Maria. Just you know if you if you want to tell her something, just tell her you know. She'll show listen. She'll listen. I always had like the freedom to feel like I could be honest with her. Taylor, things and I really respected how she really listened in. She always was looking to get better, and she was had a personality. She was young. You know she was sixteen, so she was a young girl, but like she was very eager and worked hard and always tried always tried so hard. Somehow much of a shock if at all was it to you Michael Win? Basically a year later, she won Wimbledon. Yay, shock I mean that was part of the reason actually like guy kind of chose to go with Alexander. Because I knew Maria was good like there was no doubt she was going to be really good, but I figured it would take a couple of years at least especially because she was still so kind of weak, you know she was tall, but she was very thin and very almost inexperienced in A. A way you know when you look at it I almost felt like she was inexperienced in a way, and so I remember her saying. She told me this after a long time. When she got to quarterfinals of the French she was like she was like in heaven. You know she never in a million years especially clay. She didn't like playing on clay that much back then she got to the quarter-finals their French. Her. Tell me you know when I started working with her full-time. She told me that that was like huge for her. Because she was just like never really believed she could go that far. You know and I think that gave her a lot of confidence going into Birmingham which she won, and then ultimately Wimbledon, and so it I. It was I think it was kind of surreal for everybody in a way like You know obviously. She talked a lot about Wimbledon over the years and and I was with her the following year which she was defending her title. I think she lost a Venus in the semis. I think, but but it was like I think those whole that whole month, almost being Birmingham straight to Wimbledon that's why we played Birmingham for many years after that because she wanted to try to. You know Kinda mimic what she had done. Does that mom and you know it was pretty much a shock to everybody and I know she suffered after. That's part of the reason. I started to work with her. Because afterwards her life changed dramatically, and then the summer right after she won Wimbledon, she actually really struggled you know, and that summer I think she lost a bunch of matches in a row and the US Open she lost in the. Third, second or third round Mary Pierce, and then right after US Open is when I. Was I know she she. I'll tell you one thing for sure. She loved her. Coach. Mauricio Dad so she was obviously she was working with Robert Som- she was to Bala Terry on Yuri obviously was a huge influence, and then you had Marie CEO had dad who I don't think I don't think he got enough credit for what he was doing, you know. He did a tremendous job with her that that whole year and and I remember. Right, after it was a lot of. Lot of EGOS. kind of it was kind of shocked. Everybody and I think everybody Kinda wanted to take credit for. You know her winning being her coach and her winning and I think Marie Co kind of felt a little bit like You know he didn't really get. A lot of people didn't really acknowledge him that much, and then I kind of jumped in right after US Open when it was kind of like this big a group of four or five men kind of trying to. Take a lot of credit for her wit winning. You know it was like I. Think it. Put a lot of pressure on her I. Think all sentenced. She was in the limelight, and so when I started with her, she was kind of like she had gone through a tough couple months because her life had changed so much because of the attention human. Yeah I think it was just everything. I think you know you're all set in which she wants, she obviously she became a huge star. She overnight me. She became a huge star old sudden. She had a good team around her All of a sudden everybody Kinda wanted to jump up to the forefront. You know I know Robert. was you know looking for a lot of credit? voluntary Marie CEO who was doing like the day in and day out work with her He was kind of working under voluntary and I and then I think there was a lot of turmoil a little bit, and then obviously Yuri who had been with her forever and her Dad Yuri. Obviously wanted to be like her coach to and so it was like. I think it was a great time for her obviously. Change, but it was also a little bit tough for her to you know changing obviously, and I remember when I started working with her more full-time like. After the US Open. We kind of just saw everybody kind of just go back to the basics a little bit you know. And then she went onto wooden tournament Japan, and then obviously like things calmed down, and she ended up finishing the year. Really really well, so it was you know. Did she got used to it, but I think it was a huge change for everybody, and I remember watching from a distance obviously and I. You know seeing her win. I would have never guessed that she would win a grand slam that soon. Yeah I mean terms of gay aim at that time I mean you have come on as well. I imagine seeing what you saw. You knew something of already. She Wins Wimbledon and you have got to then I guess, take the next steps with. Rights. What did you make of her game? When she's winning women, she's Thrash Serena Williams in the final. And then you are I. Guess as you say, it's coming down and your your stunning to lay some further foundations. What did you find? What did you see in her game at that point that? Well I, think it was. It was also what people you know grass obviously over the years. The grass has changed a lot. Wimbledon, you, it's a lot slower now plays a little I mean back when she wanted was playing really fast, and obviously she hit the ball. Amazing hit like talk, and so I think physically also it didn't take as much out of you is as obviously some of the other Grand Slam so I feel like she won the tournament. She was You know. Obviously she was the best. Best Player but I think also. She wasn't quite as good as she like people thought she was. You know it's Kinda like at that time, but she wasn't complete yet. You know and I think it took a couple years for her. I think when she wanted the US Open a couple years later was when she and then obviously the Australian Open, but I think winning the US Open a couple of years later was. It was kind of like a good two years of hard work of her Completing her game, getting stronger physically stronger was super important. Because you know. She used to get very tired. That H in in little injuries and little to get through a two week grand, slam, it takes a lot out of you physically mentally and so I think that was part of the reason like she did, is she? She came pretty close. To winning like Australian Open think right after she won the championship, she had match points against Serena and Australia. But she was playing good, but I feel like I helped her a lot with A. Strategy helped her moving forward better taking balls out of the year dealing with different types of players that she didn't like she at the time, she didn't like playing these junk ballers and slicer 's. You know these even players Myskina that would get a lot of balls, bet I think Wimbledon kind of everything kind of just worked out and I mean she'd be the first one to admit I mean she. She said she told me later on. She had a couple of really tough matches. think sue Guillaume on and Then she was getting killed by Lindsey. And you know. She told me a story that was really interesting when she was playing Lindsay on the semi finals, choose getting killed than she was down set, and maybe even a break or something in the second, and she said that they had a brain delay, and she she choose to say like little waiting area down below where they have a little training rooms and stuff. She remembers sitting in that room and she was like making flights like thinking that she was going to lose. Thinks, he lost six one. She said she was making flights and she was pretty happy about getting to the semi finals. You know she wasn't going to give up of course, but she kind of in a way. And she said Marie told her like whatever you I. don't care what happens when you go back on the court. I want you in the Ad Court. Just take away. The tea served as take away. Just take it away because she keeps killing you on the serve. And she said she went out there and she. Hit a couple of good returns. And she got back in the match, and and somehow she wanted you know, and and and then all of a sudden she found herself in the finals, and then before the final, she was sick. I don't know you might have you heard that. Over the years she woke up with a really bad sore throat, and her dad was like really worried that she. Was Sick and. And all since she went out there, and she played great and Serena I think was kind of nervous. And, then she won the final, so it was like everything Kinda worked out those two weeks it was it was meant to be obviously she had gained confidence, but I feel like when I started with her. Obviously, she was already great player Grand Slam champion, but she had I think game grew the next three or four years a lot. Physically and just becoming more of a complete player, and obviously she matured, she got a little bit older got used to having the limelight on her, and then I was really proud of the work we did, and how she continued to improve. Because a lot of players could, you should became an instant making tons of money allow. Players could have sat back and. been like okay I made it you know, but she constantly wanted to get better and improve, and and that was for me. That was joy to be around. Yeah, she he was just looking. Two out of three matches against Serena including one that you would have been yeah coaching her. The WPA finals right right? Yeah, and she had a couple of really close matches after like like the finals I'll tell you. She got a little bit lucky in the finals she'd be the. Because Serena pulled her stomach muscle or something, and so she was data. Debt finals was pretty amazing to be honest because she had beaten like three girls in that finals that she really struggled against before and I. Think Goss-, that's kind of when I kind of. Gain their trust? You as a coach because I remember her going into that final is only my third or fourth tournament with her. And I remember Yuri. We'd we'd go at night and watch some of the other players and ice I remember exactly who played I. Remember every girl that she played in that tournament she had trouble with like in the past, and so I was able to help her with some strategies and some stuff to really. Turn, some of those matches around, and then obviously I think she'd be. WHO's that's of a pretty easy? She beat Myskina which she always struggled against the Scana I think she had lost her four or five times before that and And, then So of remember Yuri saying I think cousteau over one of the US Open that year and I remember Yuri saying all cruised Silvis so strong. She's so much stronger than Maria like. House Maria GonNa. How we can win this match and and you know so. There was some things that I had seen the I felt like her game. Could match up well and some strategy stuff? Stuff and and then obviously in the finals. She was I think that she was in the third set and Serena I think was up like three or four. Oh, and kind of like older stomach muscle, and and started to serve kind of half speed and then. Maria, when the last six games, so you know obviously, Maria put herself in position to to win that but. I think we got a little bit lucky in the final. And then Australia is, she had Maria got very unlucky because she had three or four match points against arena on Serena hit a Shank that went twenty feet up in the air and landed Ryan the baseline. I think Maria. Won that match, so she was very competitive. Yeah, that was if you ever get a chance to watch that match I actually. They played it recently on somewhere. I was. The tennis was amazing that I both of them were moving like incredible, and I felt like it was unbelievable match. What happened in that rivalry in your mind Michael that? She went into the first three to basic never beating again. Yeah I know. I think there was also it was interesting because actually when I was with Maria. She didn't really place for all that often so I have a big opinion of why that went south I she. I actually remember. I remember so. She played her in Australia there and then they didn't play for longtime after that. Because I think Serena had some health problems and Yeah, and then I'll tell you. They played in the finals of Australian Open and I I I have never been so sure about a match in my life and been so wrong. I usually had a pretty. Pretty good idea how Maria was going to do or play and I remember. She played Serena in the finals and Maria was playing amazing. She beat clijsters in the semi's easy. Maria was playing the whole tournament. Amazing and Serena was like overweight. She was struggling she. She was down against peer to peer served for the match twice. She every match Serena struggled. And I remember them playing in the finals and I honestly thought Maria was gonNA killer, and the match starts, and Serena plays lights out. She literally played aister right and left hit every, and she killed. Maria that match. Or something and I'd never seen a woman play like Serena played that match and and then I remember I think they played in I think played in Charleston was the last time I had seen. The two of them play with Marie his coach and it was a tough three setter and Serena won, but it was a really good match, tough three setter, and then I really feel that over the next few years. I feel like Maria Start to play very predictable you know I, don't I think she started once? She hurt her shoulder. And you know we obviously we came back from the shoulder surgery and stuff, but the Maria became very predictable. underserve partly because she had to because. So Serena Serena was sitting on her. Serve all the time. I think Maria lost a little bit of her reaction. speed i. feel like that's why the rest of her career like Sh-! I think she was able to win the French Open because the it actually she became almost better on clay, because the condition down, so it gave her more time. But I feel like. Maria lost once she came back from the injuries and stuff. I feel like she lost a couple steps of foot speed, which really hurt her against Serena and then obviously instead. I think Maria played very predictable. Which Kinda set up welfare, Serena and then I think it also became after she took some some really bad losses. I, think it became mental to Obviously you know not that Maria would have, but I mean a lot of those scores in the middle where she just got blown out, means Serena would always raise her game to like the. Highest, level and Maria. I feel like was I. Feel like Maria probably felt like. Serena was the one player that she didn't feel like she could. Match you know physically power. Wise all this stuff. That Maria could do against everybody else. Didn't wasn't working against arena. So I think it became very mental to the faming was saying it was suggested that it must might have been a little bit personal from Serena side as well in terms of the race. Because it was Maria. Sure. I mean there's no doubt about that. I mean there's no doubt but you know when but I I think of I mean I think there's a lot of different speculations in different number wrote that book and there's I think there's a lot of different speculations. Why was personal but I mean when you look at from Serena? Stems from that Wimbledon match to be honest, I mean I think I think Maria. Probably brought the best out of Serena I. Think Serena New Maria was the one player who is for many years was making more money than her getting almost more attention than her? When you think about it, I mean it. It was basically for many years. Maria was getting all this attention and and almost outshining Serena especially when Serena was. Heard sick and I think as a competitor You need that extra drive. You know it's like I. Just watched that Michael Jordan series it's it's incredible you know, but it's a perfect example of how he would sometimes almost like kate somebody because it would bring the best out of I feel that. There was I feel it was a lot of that. And I think obviously Serena and respected her new. She was a great player, and she just it. It gave her that extra drive that. Serena Pied in have against a lot of other players. So it actually says a lot about Maria to in a way. Yeah, a final one Michael. What I mean giving you spend that many is working with Maria. I I've watched in tennis for twenty five years. I don't feel like I really got to Maria Sharapova all. What what? What is she like? Well you know I! Think I mean I loved I I. Love Maria loved working with her. We got along really good for the for the most part I got to see her grow up. you know those years of the sixteen even earlier than that till twenty four twenty five but you people don't realize to. Obviously you can't complain. In her Shushi at amazing low is she has she has amazed life she made. A lot of money she had be able to. All her dreams coming true, but at the same time you. She was always under a microscope everywhere, we, she went. People knew her I. Mean You would be? There was periods of time where she was unbelievably recognizable and for young girl like you get a little standoffish when when you're like that I could tell you stories that take hours of guys and people doing creepy things and always. Always wanted to picture always wanted and she was recognized by people that weren't even tennis. Fans in airports and stuff, and I think it it it put it makes you a little bit like standoffish. When everybody always coming at you want something at you know especially from a young age. You kind of put on this outside kind kinda like I, ice, queen feel, and then obviously she. I know a lot of players and stuff always felt like she wasn't the super friendly. She wasn't real social, but also she never did that well when she was really close friendly with somebody, and that has nothing to do with i. think like I remember. She was really good friends at Carolina. Go remember this Murray Carolina. Go and I remember. When she was eighteen nineteen, we used to sometimes practice with Carolina go because they are friends and I actually remembered talent. Talent, stop Kinda, stopping the practices because Maria would go when Carolina would come to the net. This is just an a practice. Before the turn of when another girl would come to net, Maria would like rip balls at her. You know be typical, Maria, but when Caroline go came the net Maria would start dinking the ball over like pushing it over like it was the craziest thing like she because they're so friendly and closed. It was hard for Morita like separate. Normal self from being like a friend, it was strange, and and I remember so I think. She kinda knew that and I felt like that was part of the reason maybe she was. Kinda stuck to herself because she felt like. You know I'm not here to make friends. I'm here to win notches and so I think she had a little bit of that attitude, which a lot of people don't like. And so, but I'll tell you from a personal standpoint I mean. She always had a great sense of humor. We always had a lot of fun. She was unbelievable supportive to me in tough times in my life, my wife my wife. My mother had cancer for three or four years. We were together. She passed away. Maria was right there. By my side through the whole thing and You know it's just a Lotta Times kind of. She just didn't totally open up I. Think in a lot of ways like people hoped she would, but I, think comes a lot from the fame that she got at such young age. You know I remember actually real quick quick story when she was real young remember few times like she would do press and stuff and. She was so young that Max and Agency would like have kind of like some answers prepared for her and stuff and I remember. There's Times where I used to say to exit. Why don't you let the girl talk? You know like? She's so smart and she? She's articulate like it's better just to let her. Talk because it's better than these like answers. And as she got a little bit older, she did that. You know, but I think I think it was again because she was so young, she was so successful. She became so famous that you you do tend to get a little standoffish and stuff I think. Some interest in Michael Thank you so much for for just letting US know because we don't know this stuff and I. Think it's actually it's one of the sad things in a way that I. do understand it, but it is a shame because it is. Andy Roddick has told me that. A different to what you think a lot different. She's funny. She's funny. to play practical jokes on me I can tell you you know I can tell you so many different you know. I can tell you so many different story I remember when she was with her shoulder like when she was rehabbing her shoulder, we used to be in Arizona and we get kind of bored because she was just doing Rehab all day, and she used to play jokes on me practical jokes and tease me. Dad and Yeah like we were out in the desert. There you know and silly so like she'd put like a fake snake under my door. She had a kind of a group of friends and a and a small group that she was totally not how she perceived at the tournaments in different stuff during when we were all together and I. think that's also why we had a good relationship for a lot of time. Because I of bring some of that like normalcy to to her life, you know and and I think she had a you know. She knew she could count on me for for anything owned vice versa, and so that's part that whole seven years. We were together. That's I probably felt close closer to her. Than anybody of really been with. When you spend that much time with somebody, you really see like the real person you know. Did you stay in touch until? Yeah Yeah we do I. Don't talk to her as much as I used to, but I actually. I probably talked to every couple of months. I remember I didn't know she was retiring. I mean I can kinda see that it was probably coming soon, but I didn't know exactly what she was going to do it, so I was actually in Doha with tomato, onion and Kiki there, and I remember we all found out and I, wrote her like a message, and she wrote me like the nicest message back, and thanked me for being a huge part of Ernie and and You know I think she I think she knows the. The the people that really were. Around her. That she trusts didn't helped her to achieve. A great career, David Luther with the exclusive on sharp over the practical joker. Trying to pick up some tips, there we David. Good one, isn't it hard? The winter weather for that. I, you what? That would not go down well. Folks, I'm getting the is. Not going to try the. It's so clear, isn't it? That she she's a completely different person to the people that know her and to her in a circle, which is which is why it's so important, important first of to that perspective, and and the context is to. She, she isn't the same person outwardly to to the public and to people that don't know her. And as much as it's frustrating and ashamed is you referenced that David is understandable and and I I respect it in many ways respect an awful lot of things about her. You know we've. We've touched on the the disappointing aspects of some of the things. She's said and some attitudes, but there is an awful lot to to respect and admire as well. Yeah. That's why well I'm always pleasantly surprised. I thought Michael Joyce would be a good person to speak to I. Didn't think he would be quite that candidate and and I really really appreciate the fact that he he just gave it to straight. You let us know what what it was like working with I'm I I had heard an interview on John. Lewis symes podcast with maxine, but her longtime agent from for many many years detaining. Many of his experiences with her and I thought he came across pretty wet in that interview, and actually asked him for an interview for this show, and he said I will pass. Which I thought it was a bit of a shame. Really because I think is kind of symptomatic of. One of the issues of not really knowing who Maria Sharapova is is that. She and her her circle. What pretty closed off and there's another example. We weren't going to get to to hear about what she's really like. Well Fortunately Michael is done that forest, but I think. I kind of look at it in two ways. One I think it's a shame, but to I do understand it. There is a appoint of fame where it can just get completely out of hand. You can't control sh. She'll logistics of keeping up with everybody on your own. So you have to make a very strict decision on who you're going to surround yourself with that. You are going to give you a number out to and those that you say no. You've got to go through agents, and and yet people can can. Be Annoyed about it, but it's not easy. It's not easy for these players sometimes to manage the sheer amount on their plates. Now I'm very pleased. We're able to bookend the Maria Sharapova story in that way with Michael Joyce really ready interesting insights, and that is the end of the Maria Sharapova Story. Isn't it because she's now? It's. As a five time grand, slam champion is I, need one time Wimbledon champion. I wonder how many people would have believed back in two thousand and four that. She'd never win that title again and she'd I need reach one mole funnel, but. Plenty to be proud of in her career Matt. Headed tomorrow. Well, I think next two shows of the best to would finals that I remember and tomorrow is the two thousand five final Venus Williams versus Lindsay Davenport. Is A, corker, isn't it and we? We've got Lindsay Davenport talking about it. And it's absolutely fascinating and the s folks the day after that is when we'll be heading to the men's final in two thousand and eight for anyone. That's been screaming at their devices for two weeks about why we're not talking about veteran adult, we will we will. Can we them now? You can do whatever you like David as evidenced by the fact that David confessed before accordionist, he actually reworked the law. See Games even as of its rafter again this morning and cried again. How how old are you to keep the street going? How many days in a row are you? GonNa Watch the final. See Games that much David. Just. I. Isn't that playing again later this week on telly around in a what do I mean? It's just too good not to watch. New Addiction. Right, well, you can go off and watch whatever you like now. David Matt can go deal with his Internet issues. He's GonNa. He's GonNa get law today and I'll go and I'm the puppy sitting. This often aimed say I win ritual. Luna lovely. Yeah Laboratory it'll. It's. It's love Thank you to Gerald sorry Gerald to talk about a dog There's room for dogs and cats in the world in a lovely happy harmonious way. Gerald thanksgiving excellent. There's some excellent Gerald content on our instagram and I think twitter channels if you want to indulge in that its spectacular. I stole the pictures of Gerald from his own instagram account to put on twitter last night. Yes. He's famous getting out of hand folks. And thanks to you for listening. We've got five four more these crikey. Matt's is lit up in horror and I. Said Five. It's only four more, and they're going to be great so join us again. Tomorrow.

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Entry 50  Anna Smith  Journey to top 50

Kris Soutar's Tennis Journal

1:22:37 hr | 2 d ago

Entry 50 Anna Smith Journey to top 50

"Hey welcome back to another tennis journal. Podcast entry we've hit the half-century entry number fifty come in today. I'll tell you all about my guests in a second. I think i said a few weeks back my intention. This year was to do all my interest while i was out for a walk because they tend to think well while in motion february had scotland. His person donate side. So i come to my haven which is now my garbage slash. Jim converted half of my garbage into jim at the start of the year. So this come to skip everything and walking. I did think how creepy would it be. If i actually did the incher while i was working spirit you that i'm just walking giddy after i'm finished speaking to you so first of all last week guest pete boss will has predicted going down in that storm. Everyone loves the irish tells the story. Well he deflects incredibly well on these come from what he's learned along the way were gonna do in the future so not have that. Get back in your ears as soon as you can this guest because it's the number fifty. I thought let's get some crack. His top fifty on tour so have honest miss british player high ranking six two in singles and forty six and doubles super super nice person feet on the ground humble might person got to know i know a little bit from walking with it on a course that he's on and We struck it off. And i asked on and she said yes. It's a good in twenty minutes and we delve into her journey. What he's learned we go off a huge tangents Couple tangents i go off in a better rant about novak djokovic superfan if jovic i apologize in advance because i get into a little bit and we talk about when i. I practiced again at playing with martina. Hingis childhood hito how she reacted to that mouth music. And we talk. Everything from hair starts in your tennis journey all the way through to when she was tired. So it's a really good. Listen to the news that you'll love it usual plea before i hand over to anna is get onto ratings and the reviewing the show. Think we're still at nine thousand. Five hundred. Ninety six moved to crack that top hundred teachers. Second class applauded by and give us a five star review. Make make sure that you spend a minute right a couple of sentences about you like on this show what you like about the show any constructive criticism is welcome in brackets. Don't get too personal of. I'm very senstive and yeah so that's enough for me gonna had you over to enjoy okay. So entry number fifty two. My tennis journal is anna smith. How you do nana. i'm fantastic. This new has disappeared. Thank god much to the disgust of kids. Actually we went sledging On sunday we we felt really guilty because if the only kids in the village the din of a sledge so we one stupor quick. I the first time. I took off my mac sledge. I sat sound incorrect. It his face s a disaster. So anyway is supposed to go. And i just said to you before we started recording that The thing that's excited me most about our chastise. The i have no idea where it's going to go just want. Shoot the breeze with you. So as easy place to start is right at the beginning. So what was the start of your tennis journey like so for me. I think i was probably more of a late starter in comparison to ucla. These kids picking up a racquet which when they can walk in and that just wasn't me I was a keen footballer. So that was kind of the career path. I wanted to take And then i literally saw wimbledon on tv and live mom and dad. Give that a try and You know. I tried all different sports. And then i saw just went to my local club to these. You're kind of summer camps and things of that and then i sold carried on from there. I kind of did that. We went to the club with mica. Friday night Difficult parents socializing me just messing around with the other kids hidden against the wall. A kind of went from there. And then you econo- started having lessons squads joining in than the coach. Pretty much says Maybe this is something that you should look to to do a little bit more. And then it pretty much evolved from that relay. The people's interest in wanted that. So what said what did you like about football. I think the weird thing is. I like the a team aspect of it or not really sure why tennis i. It's just always a key football. You know even from as young as i remember just being the back garden kicking a football around Another with usca stat had on in the background watching and it was something that appeal to me all. I'm not sure but it was just something that i loved and again that team environment was just something the the i kind of found was the most exciting in most fumble there so from that. We'll circle back to at some point because oversee you have fed cup expedient which is the teen tennis and also i think the county cups county week so that sort of stuff Quite often the memories. The tennis players have for the rest of their lives. That will circle back to that. But who's your football team mennonites this. I'm sure i'm going to get a law greece. That's not anywhere on the hot cool united. I'm stuck story than three second. Been route soak. Okay thick and thin right. So what was the thin of being a manchester united eight years. We've been tragic or about eighty s I've got at least get some credit not ditching them. You probably went through a similar thing with me because i was Manab fan and we had very in the eighties farrar manager so when he was the manager we were literally cleaning up. People don't realize but in one thousand nine hundred eighty three. We won the what used to be the cup winners cup and we beat real madrid in the final aberdeen. Beat real madrid crazy but we we've been suffering what you're feeling for the last slight thirty years. Hopefully thank you it is just yes exceptional. But so how old were you when you start or that court said or maybe you could give us a bit more of a a go So it's probably about twelve. So i've been playing kind of a company as just brady socially plan just in local things like that And then one of the coaches was kinda said to me like you'll kits diesen It gets try. Get her Somewhere little bit mysterious sweating kind of us spoke with my parents. We decided to go to Sutton and that was back when it was reagan. Send to the kind of had the road for academies in the header license players and coaches. And that's when. I decided to go there so probably from about twelve was when i asked you. Saw the apply myself. More serious And then yet from their snowballed and probably from about twelve to fourteen was when it really starts to kick off when you say you went to the academy. Was that only who regularly you training then probably damning three times a week. At most of the time it would just be squats. And then i'd have a couple of individuals and then just have like someone ice get with so yeah probably seventy two individuals awakes than squad sessions. Which i really liked because again. The whole dynamic of the group sessions are really. Enjoy it And then i just have like just pay someone like the scholarship guys us at the hit with me on the times i can have individual. Kills me that who paying for hits Give than the close to sultan was your house. Was that big or not. Always lucky as twenty five minutes of As as things progress while has to come out school that was when my mom had to come out of her lunch break in literally. drive me from school straits attendance. And then go back to what he gets hovered was. It was so stressful time. United like i didn't think anything of the great monk and destroyed tennis but you look at canal in realize she had now is lunch break and she has to get for me to school back to work and you kind of think about the kind of sacrifices that she which is and you don't really think about it now so awesome lucky that she was willing to do that for me definitely do siblings poco oko suicide his 'cause that was going to be minute question. Is that almost think from patients perspective for a second. What do you think that first. Those first steps on that british tennis competition scene. Where like for that. You know in terms of going outside the county if you like. That's a good question. I think because they're not from a spicy background at all. I don't know anything about tennis. i think them. It was probably quite strange. I think it was a huge leading care for them as well. Because aided you see kids out that is competing against if had older siblings. Who played tennis before nine. Know what to do all they play themselves So i think by my parents and i was a huge learning cavan What to expect almost like make an opposite going along released. So i think yeah i think is quite a strange on dating on quite prepay Account that's a new thing that i do a lot more of patient education and i think we need to find a better word or phrasing it because it sounds like you're saying they need educating on being a payment tennis education or raising awareness of the tennessee. But it's amazing to me still. I think you know. I've been doing this for almost thirty years. And still relatively speaking the payments get kept it lands. And if you think about that so appear in set appearance soon as you just said no sports in background. The absolute minefield of to the tournament seen enter for is the expectation. And it's obvious that when left to their own devices the who coined the tangible things like the rankings in the ratings and status in which score latte sort of stuff so i think we need to do. Better job in tennessee Your earliest memories in terms of when you brew outside your local tournaments I'd probably say it was kind of like the regional challenges those the weekend Going all up and down the country. I remember probably from about fourteen onwards. It was just pretty much. Every single weekend was different. Different county different part of the country. You know you go on a friday evening saturday morning early. Play those tournaments where you know. You've got four zero backwoods. It was just that was pretty much the weekend And i never really played any of the tennis. Europe all icf events when i was younger so for me a lot of it which is based in in the uk So that was a law of my tournament. Upbringing to start with You know whether it be. Like i said at regional challenge or match play a weekend. That would kind of pretty much. What my much place. All of involved assault with a Enjoy the can of adventure of that. He had awesome question. I suppose i enjoyed it when i was winning. And one you not as a kid of that age. You don't necessarily enjoy it that much. I also think if. I'm being bruce. To the honest. Tennis has never been like my passion. I think football is my passion. I loved football. You could get me in the garden. Twenty seven i wouldn't. I would love with tennis. It kinda felt like. I almost did it because i was good at it Don gabriel much. Still love doing it. But it wasn't like i was one of those kids who just like getting on a match Not it wasn't analysis. Think that probably has something to do with my personalities. Close quite a shot. I was very shy kid of came out my shell later so i think for me going into that environment was really crazy. Because you've got these kids who elect so confidently so in your face and that was just completely the opposite to me. It's funny you say that the as you're speaking there but the passion being bowl. I'm pretty sure it you. I remember seeing a clip. Maybe it was around fed cup where someone said or asked you what you would do if you weren't a tennis player and said football and you said inky said there were dream like it'd be my dream to play football so it can avert echoes. Exactly what you said but you know as the harsh reality is many people get to do what they absolutely like their dream job for living and you know i suppose people could be listening this. Google tennis is quite good. Second and when i say that to people that like why did you do but don't get me wrong. I love playing tennis. I wouldn't have been able to do it from the age of tend to said he tuned also wouldn't have been able to do if i didn't love Undone moore. There's nothing better than walking out. You know when we're done any any of the grand slams fed cup or anything like that. This wouldn't trade if anything. But at the same time. When i was young about wilson The ruth. I saw myself going down in a ended up just being that because i had an aptitude for that was the path. I went down compared to some kids. Who genuinely absolutely love. It and just tennis tennis tennis pass. Yeah no it's it's i think that's quite normal. It one of the things. I can get wound up about is in societies. Still go knows how many years one hundred fifty years. After the industrial revolution we still deemed. Sixteen between six. Eighteen is when you choose the subjects that are going to pretty much determine your whole career which so if you take a twelve year olds why would you know that you wanna be. A attendance player was an overly romantic hindsight. When people say all. I always knew. I wanted to be a professional tennis player. Visit you know. I'm always a bit cynical. You know me a little bit nicer. That won't be a surprise. But the when you hear. Richard williamson serena and venus before they were even born. Were gonna be tennis players on like come on. Man it's easy say they are the legends. They are but enemy the so you mentioned you didn't really travel to ten shoot up site. Us the that much. When was the first time that you traveled aside uk. I'm probably say it was vow about fifteen. I think i did end up. I think i did. Maybe i did one tennis year. Event in i think it was no wipe without just cause. My mother was inouye. So he kinda coincided On again. I think i think i did terribly on then i did some. It fs yet about fifteen sixteen Just because one of my good friends was a better junior than i was on. We played quite loft together. So i kind of ended up going with her to do. Our property played may be like ten. It s monica. Which is purely. Because 'cause i'm hall swedish race against sweden for christmas and you know they had salek the tournament we again on my My family left about our way. So we kind of coincided with that as well so again that was pretty much all. I did The about ten by ten zero. Something's obvious a terrible terrible junior in the grand scheme of things to do things number one. Who's your good friend. That you debate with silverstone she'll start while ago she was always so much better than me. And then yeah we end up just playing quiet of doubles together and then we just we saw it going to a few tournaments and but again that that's the thing i think was good for me that it was fun and i think that's kind of what made me want to do it more Check in one dropping in the half swedish thing. Your kid is fun facts about me. Yeah i'm healthy. So your mother swedish. Yeah see the process of elimination melissa. Ginger doesn't give away that allow them. No i'm not the typical so be the zo combat today tennis so the it expedience is because you know. I i- sundry bat in anyone. That's listening this that may be a that said journalists because journalists listening to this She say should have been the adult like doing research on guests. I don't know what it is. It's like i'm almost want to fight this things from them. Rather than actually looking on google awebber but i did look back at some of your results. And there's these moments in a headwind last week pete boswell when he talked about come into play the squash indoors when he was twelve. And as i. I remember that i remember it. Does everyone was kicking off an irish person. Goats and sam uses and scottish doors. And i was in donnybrook and i'm sure you won the doubles in yet. I think i'll yeah play place. Is it cold donnybrook. it's co- it's called the town in cork or Couve but it's spelled c. o. l. b. like coober whoever bit cool the pronunciation but don't to dublin one. It was funny. Looks back at it now. I was there that year. i remember. Clear bernie scott issue year-old of l. Nor sharing your younger than you. But i was. There was some of the other scottish kids. And i remember you winning but so weird thinking back because this just absorbed and of that remember that the yeah again that was property with that must've been with amber thing if i commend and gazette the name that i saw a pop-up which shoot surge years and years ago. And they haven't seen her. Since was on hawkins. So i i now on our apprentice of. She's what she day. She works little bit. And she's going you say it's not it's right area as well with because she was on the very first level three i ever did in sutton and she was on the course owning yours at junior player then so it was always odds breaking because it was my i choose to engage in stuff but i remember her being super nice on the course and stuff anyway. This is not great listening for feel at home so the so. Let's move on. When did it feel like things start to really ramp up a for you in terms of the wanna say because everything has had a tinge of fun to it which i love so win to start to get serious probably when i was about fifteen 'cause that was when i was kind of coming to the end of my jesus as At night started coming out school. So i was coming out school. Probably two and a half days a week to do squads an individual sessions like that social may add. Save probably from then. That was kind of greedy when My parents and i look to make that conscious decision came. This is the road that i was gonna go down And then as soon as i finish my gpc's that was. That was kind of it. I was going to go full-time. Yeah probably fifteen. Sixteen onwards was already decided. This is the career for me We're gonna do whatever it takes to take on a get your fulltime there. Yeah so. I went fulltime at sutton. Lucky that i had at the time is like would eric documen use a french guy. Who was later in the program there And he was the one who kind of took We work together probably for a bow. Six years So from that from sort of fifteen to sort of twenty one He'd what may and then at the time he was the head of the program have spent more time with me so we ended up leaving him. Becoming my full time. Coach said that yet that was to make mississau- of the journey. I always liked to champion coaches. I think we we typically don't do enough of that in the tennis world especially the ones that there's this expression. Coaching chain thoughts on last week. Short on awards dinner a couple of years ago where the Can get creek to write. This thing said messed up last week. Ben stokes apparently is a very good english cricketer. And the hud's everyone on the stage that had played a part in his journey nicole. The coaching jane in a love that concept so talk a little bit about eric describe what he was like as a person as a coach i mean he was amazing he he kinda gave me everything. I needed He was so supportive. Wouldn't wouldn't mind giving all of his time to me. And i think he saw something in me and he knew the i had the potential. Everyone had always used to say to me. Oh unless you're really talented applaud as a kid doesn't united nice to hear baltimat- in the grand scheme of things it doesn't matter he was the one who kinda soul that in may and he wanted to help me grow and he was willing to give up whatever time and put as much effort as needed. nina travel with me. He had his life as well but he made those sacrifices for me as well up we go on radio. Well i had a good relationship And it just seemed to work really You know. I developed so much under him and called him to thank for a lot of their I only met maybe two or three times but my instant memory of number one was very charismatic. French not yet charming every word and also you know i always had a bit of a chip or my shoulder when i first came into the scene because i didn't come from a plane back grind. I don't even come from a tennis or sports. You by grinding terms northeast. scotland scotland wooten a limb and i kind of had a bit of an insecurity by especially when it comes down to the southeast and i remember meeting him and when you meet someone like that and they're utterly charming to you it sticks in your mind cause you get others. People will mention any names at love to the. I'd love on but other people that are so adamant in dismissive and rude so now etiquette. Keep in touch with the night yes. He's moved back to france actually. So he's working in a club in south of franz. He moved back a couple of years ago. But even when we don't from together you know. When i was twenty one in that we did keep in touch and i'd see him round 'cause he wants to bisham and he would always be like anything you possibly need. Just give me colo whatever and he was always trying to help in the even ten years after we still working together you know he was such a gentleman said he was one of those guys. Who's just genuinely ready. Ni- some wanting to help people Member nfs came to soften like he could barely speak. English should nike school about really thick french accent on he could never say roehampton with one thing the chart with a tried to get into say all and he just could not say is. I just couldn't do one thing. But he like you said he was such a great guy. He didn't have a show that he didn't have ego. I think was probably one of the things does get on to what together so well. It makes perfect sense when you talked earlier about you being quite introverted or shy that you need someone who is the empathetic and really cares about you. Developing as a person as much as a butcher. And i think not perfect. Seems you assume that that should be the cat of traits for all coaches and teachers is that they're selfless. It's about the person but you know again. Renew snow unfortunately so go back to those times because you know what tenants world is like. Was there a time where you sounds an expectation or that you own some sort of metaphor radar for right. Okay on a smith's right. This is a name that keeps popping up. Did you ever feel that to be honest. I didn't because i was like. I mentioned before i wasn't a very junior I think you may be. I was probably one of the best place at the academy So it's kind of like the big fish in a little pond. Said that was that was kind of like the initial concept had The only time that i actually felt like i was popping up on. Someone's ready dot was when i play or won nationals in my last year and that was the time when it's all okay actually like anna's orion and she sees that was kind of when i think people may be in british tennis stood up and kind of took a little bit more. The offense ill then. I definitely flown onto the right office. Show and and when you reflect back on that do you see that as postitive negative or Give it much thought. I think probably looking back now. Just in terms of how i was. I think for me. Good for me to just be able to do my anything up until then An develops. I think it might have been tougher if i'd have been under kind of like a regime. More got poked with a alto in kind of one of their academies. You know. I've seen a lot of players who did go into those academies ready struggle just because fifteen sixteen living away from home and it was. It was such a regimented program that it was just hard for them to flourish. So i think the me is probably a good thing. I wasn't. Paul is such an interesting discussion point. You know in terms of i think it's individual because the you've said ads the way you were on similar in terms of introver- The if you had been on some sort of radar in a way that makes you feel pressure that you do. It probably need you do get. There's tennis fool them people to are extrovert and know it's all about them. And whatever but my feeling is that they're the ones that we'd actually suffer the most from that kind of being on the radar because they attached their self esteem to nothing. That's one of the things. I really liked about us. That you for me. Anyway you feel grinded if on the ground you know i know. People s estimate achieved even half the success you achieve they would be dining on it You know we'd be milk in as much as a kid. So i think that's testament to you so around that time where you start playing futures and you are. You're not old enough to you. Are in the satellite. Were you kind of just here and we word that teaches so you mentioned when you went to norway and so on. And he didn't do well hct. Does i futures expedience is like this is a long time ago. I can remember a lot of times. It was just The british ones just to get a feel for them As fa- may it was tonight wasn't too much of a change purely because we were kind of playing a lot of british girl so for me it was kind of a an easy step into it wasn't lack of throwing in at the dependent always going to some random place in south america or africa. Whatever k. Definitely you could just get my feet a little bit. Where and then kind of take those steps and play other. Ics but for me was the wilson like a A big thing Felt pretty comfortable. And then i think 'cause i did okay. I kind of was able to build confidence. It wasn't like it been completely shattered. Their a sidestep just for a second on that. Because what you'd opinion on if you could click fingers would you put a whole bunch of futures and if it could challenges on the uk. Yeah without shadow of doubt. I mean you. Look at places like america. I think italy rally really well where they have basically futures or challenges basically. Every week i think in the. I remember from my kind of time when i was playing those ten case to start with. We have so many in this country. The i was going from laugh. Breath to Connie remember what nottingham to wherever they were And you just had so many that was just like a cat can play twenty twenty five in this country and then maybe six seven. Am to go full nowadays. You just haven't got that. So i think if there was one thing i could change it would be to try and get a lot more in this country and i think that's something we should look to do. It is a difficult one because again people could be listening to enroll of course not issued on heaps future costs so much money to pre owned It's crazy to think that prize money essentially is pretty much the same as it was twenty five thirty years ago and the costs. Think about the cost of putin event nagged compared to what it was back in the day. But it for me is a no brainer strategically but it's just trying to find the think you have to. I think you also have to weigh up. The fact of what it can bring to british tennis. The costs a lot of money to put on. But if you wanna bring british tennis full would you wanna get more players. This is why the place can fund it without the elsia having to fund players You're kind of have way up. Know you have to speculate to accumulate you to get more players. You've got to make it more accessible especially in the current climate. So i came maybe a little bit more but would you rather have a k may be one hundred to two hundred plays or davis cup and fed cup. Played the come out of your East kind of you have to find that balance. And i think that was something that i remember when you know when i was doing. You had those people at josh good. Oh okay he might be rent system a little bit when the divine escape many that he was making like semi so fine. Look these futures like every week the then you look at him. He was a top two hundred and he was doing well. I think. I wonder if even made like the davis cup squad at some point when so you know is that worth it. It's a it's a really. In scotland's it was a very emotive topic. When i through the philosophical question i of would you rather have one andy or ten scottish players in the top two hundred th you know as purely physical philosophical so i very much andy will ever listen to this or if that if he does andy i love you. I'm not saying we redo guys an absolute legend but it is from tennis development point of view. What benefits tennis bedser obviously. He's brought huge profile. But for the game as you've said to know ultimately a my feeling is no matter what level of tennis you get to you end up playing more or less the same people all the time anyway. So the so yeah. I think that hundred percent would be a good thing. So let's go to when you started to go elsewhere for the futures if it felt different in what way i wouldn't say that it totally felt different 'cause i think initially When i was traveling abroad it was always a big group. So when i was sutton We had agreed Nine ten girls on wheel used to travel together to the tournaments so for me it kind of defeats like a holiday but it was just it was more like a social thing So that's what made a lot more fun. So we had erica. L- coach might have been And then we were always going to the tournament so that was nice. It was more. Probably when i was nineteen twenty when eric was just one on one with me that it really felt serious and it was kind of like mind individual coach co-chair just traveling to tournaments in that was when you of felt it ready up an e kind of thing. Okay this is. This is serious now and to be fair is doing all right I was kind of ours. Progressing up the rankings. And you know it is fun when when that's happening but that was probably more when the travel stops it happening you know is going to america australia wherever Chasing the points. When you said there was like say eight nine ten. If you go into the tournaments. Was that officially together or just so happened that there was eight nine ten. If you in the draw nice so we kind of have against to fund the coach. We obviously the the kind of similar level sautin. I'm so ended up just being there was no place in qualities place in manger or so we all just went into that song together just to help keep costs down in. That's happened. i love that. I wish that we'd happened more often. Because i think maybe takes dennis slightly different rabbit hole. This is a personal one of a million bugbears. I have but one of the biggest ones is this perception that girls don't get on and they just wanna be one on one with a coach and i totally disagree with it and i see if seen like horror stories from junior tennis where it's it's really manifested into something really ugly so you've already just said Agreed that all what are the benefits other than oversea. The they can have fun the social side but what other benefits to that big group mentality. Is there festival you training partners the whole climb. You've always got someone that you have people that to you watching matches again. You have that team spirit and you don't feel like you're learn which can be a huge Tennyson i think why players struggle so for me those with the to kinda big things. The the help then oversee the kind of the fun site outside of tennis. And that's kinda will i found. I enjoyed the bikes with it. I think tennis had been kind of so serious for me than i would have struggled a little bit because i was there was a phase probably when i was i tonight. Maybe nineteen twenty. Just really didn't like this. And i contemplated quitting. I'll just let this is not for me. I think i was going through a bad patch in terms of results Already can't do this anymore. And i had about three weeks where i just didn't play. I just needed a break from tennis. Sesame i think that that aspect of it really helped me stick in the spokes Definitely you've mentioned a few times that the correlation between enjoyment fun and winning if you could go back and give yourself some advice around that time or maybe before that time a rhyme that topic. What would it be. Don't put so much emphasis on winning. I think because. I didn't know any better. I just thought tendencies all about winning and losing. I didn't know that it was this process in that unit. You kind of put these building blocks in place to get better. I just saw in. You beat the win or lose and if you win great in rubbish. I think for me that was that was way too much emphasis on that if i could go back and tell myself as long i mean i in one of our coaching courses you. It's about it's more along sprint. You know people say markson but long sprint. But even if i could have had that in my head. I think that would have been better because i was just so focused on that one match those so many ups and downs. You know. i'd be devastated. If i lost moment. Offing if i won rather than she saying it as more of progress yet. It's such an such an important point that if we flip the wording of the question a little bit 'cause you mentioned not to put the emphasis on winning if the words fourteen year old girl listening to this. What would you suggest that. She her emphasis on improving improving growing. The casaus was ultimately going to make you successful and don't be scared of winning. Leasing united is such a cliche. But if you win is great but it's not also the bigger page Land from the same thing when you lose you. Don't lose you learn. You can take what they savings from whether it be mentally physically tactically. Technically whatever it is but you land You also have to get used to losing What the stats are the so many spots where you win a match but you lose more points than your opponent does but i the matching united streep thing so that but when you're a kid he Understand that so. I think it's just having more fun emphasis on landing end improving day in day out because i think a lot of times we get just so cool off of winning and losing and anything. That's a healthy thing. Hundred percent is such a balancing act. So don't you think because some people perceive what you've said. I agree with as what you're seeing is winnings. No important duncan winning is important. You got to be able to land to lose because ultimately if you're lucky you win three told If you've had a good year those are the twenty five twenty six weeks year. You're gonna lose land lose land to be able to take stuff from is hundred percent. Those reflection pieces us doing course at the moment on mentoring and his blowing my mind light right up my studying in terms of the concepts and frameworks and the reflection piece and the it really does strike me that we need to find a very subtle way to get young tennis players to be able to reflect not be good at it just be able to because if they don't is going to your mom and dad's point is the left to your own devices. Were you can hook on the tangible the win the loss eggs address. Oh yeah it's a it's an important thing and you mentioned earlier on when it fell a little bit more serious about twenty one twenty two and he started. Just being with yourself and eric so talk us through that spell of time from then onwards yes so that was kind of. We decided the he was just going to chapel one on one with me because he wasn't able to do his gt's head coach and it was kind of. I needed someone at that point to be a little bit more fulltime with me to read it kind of folks why progression Said that was when he started travelling with me. Full time new weights. We did a lot of traveling Play too much of a schedule as probably away. Seventy five weeks of the which is quite low Said that it was probably more when i was like nineteen the he saw traveling with me in them. We have really intense kind of couple years but to be that was when margaret king. Show up in that. I think that was pretty much around when i reached my career. High ranking so ultimate. If i look back at it really helped me Not one on one attention and just having someone kind of consistently that man having my back. Beer definitely your high highest ranking two six two. Yeah yeah and it's it's it's a tough question to ask. i'm to throw in there anyway. One of the saddest things unless you get to number one in the world is the you'll never know what your highest ranking. You'll never know the moment. The highest ranking jut makes sense so when you think back to the around that time you got that highest ranking or your thoughts on you know let's say if you could even remember that time did you celebrate did you think right you know this is a great ranking to get or did you just cruise through the face. I definitely didn't elaborate. I remember. I think i remember it. Because it was a round wimbledon time on the criteria for wooden wolcott at that time was talked to fifty and so i was obviously like two six two so i was. I was kinda like hoping the i'd get wimbledon walkup always say you know i wasn't in the criteria so for me that was that was a disappointment and obviously in my career high ranking And so then. I remember going playing because as But neither wilson any celebration on anything that through. So i think at that time That was pretty Tools the end if that year. When i had my career high. That was when my injury problems started so could never really appreciates it will celebrate or even kick on from there really and with that in mind in your singles career. Did you ever have a time. Where you celebrated wow. I've never been asked that question before. I shouldn't probably not thank you. Know i celebrated the victory May be nationals. When i won that maybe one woman says night s. I think we do get stuff. Exactly such a you know started getting too deep. Insult me about know. We do only live once and we should celebrate and i think if you talk about the importance of what you mentioned earlier in terms of improving and actually putting the focus on improving and of course ranking is one indication of improving. But i think we need to develop or look into developing habits of how we celebrate improvements. You know whether it be ranking or whether beat your game now are probably thinking what go out and party every time you make you increase your percent present. You know but. I think if you had a habit of actually celebrating even if it was like i don't see players after they've done preseason training and the reward at the end of it ironically as likely get big dirty burger or something. I mean it's like you see the the the genuinely celebrating the end of that hard work with something. Ironically the poisoning there but the yes. It's an a big point. And i suppose it's a good bridge to go into the doubles because you mentioned earlier that team sport football so what was the suppose the difference for you between his rubbish question fundamentally. What is the difference between your singles and doubles for you as a person. I think fundamentally doubles came easier to me i my natural game solemn kind of attitude was mosul tissa doubles. I loved being at the now. I love that kind of the whole cat-and-mouse thing worse than singles. I didn't necessarily like that. It was again just me But that there's a multitude of factors as to why i ended up playing doubles over caring with singles. Injuries playing huge. Aw i just didn't really enjoy singles anymore. I kind of felt the the injuries that i had previously hinted might develop my development So yes for me. It was it was kind of the stop playing. Because i couldn't do enough to keep buying singles and do enough training all do something that i enjoyed that she it go on potentially be successful in that and so for me. I didn't want to look back on my career and have any regrets that swine that she's in the doubles poss and in terms of let's say timeframe you decided to be focus more on doubles where in the br- i'm going to say the british doubles journey of the last ten years we had in that journey. Was that for you you know. Was it right near star or Yet it i probably started focusing on doubles and twenty about twenty four twenty five. I think it was so yes like seven eight years ago. I was probably more of the star of that journey. That was really kind of anyone. Like clerk karen and cerebral while hannah forge. That doubles pause But that went to many players who would just focused on doubles. And so i was. I was lucky enough. The when i was playing singles without really concentrate on doubles. I'd reached about one twenty. And i always enjoyed it like i. Love playing doubles So for me it was. It was just kind of a no brainer of the yeah. It wasn't really something that people solely focused on so much. The i was also ready. Lucky around that time the jocelyn. Rae was in a very similar position to what i was. We were good friends. kind of wear off partnership women from but we i suppose we will probably mold the the kind of the fest two famous in the loss of ten years to really actually focused on doubles. That that's where it was gonna take me because were you. Will you self conscious about that in any way or because i see that still. Let's take colleges. The analogy that when i was younger if someone went to college it was almost like tapping you know i. I knew i can't make as pro go to college. We know colleges a- definite route that you could take to become approved. And i think we're past that stage nyerere in terms of doubles. But like you said it was right at the very start. Were you conscious. That of people are thinking. I'm not doing singles now. Just focus on doubles or did you not give any thought. No you definitely have that in the back of your mind when people think oh he said tapping out of being a bit lazy so to me. see you definitely have Would take seriously or whatever But i suppose she kind of has to have that confidence to know. The what you're doing is the right thing that it is serious whether people take you seriously. Oh no it's is their issue. Not ios here. i know so. I think the fact that justin did so well so quickly probably helped to swell like we show up probably within nine months kind of going for new getting easily inside. Top one fifty. I'm playing fed cup slow. It was for us. I think it was from. It will so much of that. But even now i still think that people have that kind of stigma about people just play doubles which i think because it's a came. Maybe it's not physically as long as the four singles matches demanding in other ways people just don't undisturbed so it's just i think it's just a bit ignorance from people definitely hundred percent sports bouncing coach good couple years ago now and i asked that same thing curious about another racket sport and when i described what we've just talked about there he couldn't get it in his head to toll he was eichenbaum. Monson doubles is like justice. Proceed as prestigious as the single. So if you won the doubles olympic gold it would be celebrated just exactly the same as as singles player. So it's definitely a tennis. My sample size is pretty small. One other racquet sports. I think is particularly at tennis thing and it would be a great insight. Excuse me agree insight for maybe players on coach is to hear how your tennis training life changed when you decided to become a food. Time doubles specialist again. I'm not sure if if my journey's necessarily the kind of bulk standards what you did say like a doubles player was but because my injuries i ended up only only being able to do so of a to wool to a half hour session a day for a fitness and then i had to do kind of injury prevention stuff in fitness around it so for me it was my level of tennis training had to decrease in terms of time and i had to modify it so that woods again. That's probably not the same. I know that it was the same just as well with higher injuries as well. So we're terrible examples to ghosn s. I yeah i. I think if i hadn't had the injuries my be done like i would have been training Singles are done a couple of hours in the morning cup lots in the afternoon g to kinda my limitations event. I had to be very smart. With how i trained the suppose. The the deeper insight. I think is trying to get rid of those same or just trying to enlighten people. How much of that. Let's take a pie chart one hundred percent. If your own court chain type How much of that was with. Joyce not lights so that ever. In the same country walston tons and tons. We did have Weeks where we would train together. We tried to make sure that coincided before like a block of tournaments but obviously she was based in nottingham. I was based in bath or london so it wasn't always possible the we were able to train together So for me. It was trying to find that balance of being able to spend time high Emmy being spent time. Hyman coinciding. Nice but now i wouldn't say that was maybe twenty percent of the time good or bad thing. I think it probably have both you know. I think we could have may be used a little bit more in the sense. The other teams around the world would necessarily had that time together. But at the same time when you're traveling with someone facility twenty five weeks. A year is good to have that separation as well. I'm kind of happy Separate lives to just kind of get away from each other. So i'm show. They says one better than the out there again. I think it's indicative of tennis. The nature of tennis because again going back to that badminton questioned the moose of the doubles players in badminton from nations training. The same club. I mean you've got much more of a club mentality. So they just trained you know Become like synchronized badminton players in that sense. It's like like the bryan brothers joined at the hip. But yeah i think the my feeling is there must be some sweet spot for each partnership. Never mind just genetic because you hear these stories of doubles players. That have had huge success. That don't actually like each other. Like leander paes mahesh osceola. They hated each other. If one of the most successful of all time. So you know. I don't think that necessarily means i teach other. It means success. You gotta do. What works is past the footwork for you. Like on that. Because i i don't i can't share space with some dea to like. Yeah no i. I know what you're saying. I think some me. Like i'm so laid back. Tend to be able to get on with. So i'm quite adoptable but yeah i do struggle a little bit. I didn't get on with someone so united double spotless. i've had. I've been really lucky. I've gone on with him in there. I probably would have maybe sackable early so let let's say spend a minute praising joyce what was your favorite things about being the partner of george ray i mean to be on a lot of it was just not even on eight which is off colin. How she was passed in the states. So much vence bay around you know she. She's always able to pick you up when you're down at fun i'd entertainment on the you get onto the cold stuff as well and she's probably one of the most talented people you'll say she can go every show in the bag Helps she's six foot to go. Canada a itchy. On for that and fly swap volleys But i think she's just an amazing person in one of my closest friends and be able to kind of shed. That journey with us the other night i think is about three and a half years in the ends ready ready special. Just very lucky that i got to do that. My best friend. Yeah perfect that go a little bit back on that whole thing of doubles being an option. Imagine if somebody could of told you as your teenage self that you will spend three and a half years with your best friend and you know in a job. Essentially traveling the world having an absolute wheel of a time. You want to sign here or not. He'd be like yellow obvio- louvre. And i think that's where we need to be explored the doubles route. A little bit more over. You gotta just the tricky job confined in your best red but yeah i think it's such a really fascinates me in terms of like one of the things i really am passionate about. Intense china create many different career paths or options as possible. And i do genuinely believe that. If i had a tennis academy you know. There's part of me that stinking right. Maybe we should focus on being double specialists from a young age and actually thinking right. This is a bona fide career option. You take the t mass beethoven traveling. You've always got a companion if you're traveling. and so. anyway. I digress but one thing that fascinates me is the dynamic of being the double team in fed cup so talk through your fed cup like first expediencies over and how you find it being the double team in a team fed cup expedience sesame. The fast experience i had fed cup was with joss on was with judy I think we're in hungary. As that was the time when i think it was may joe had a unjust were in the same And obviously joan had with the designate. Two singles place johnson i with a designated doubles players But i think the thing the fell good about that was judy. Obviously having jamie she was so keen on having a double same unlike we were all united. The doubles team workouts. Like we have faith in us english twice but we will have already good doubles team in. That was kind of what felt really good about it. Kind of seen as will almost eat cool as she put as much emphasis on us she did the other people And obviously to be able to share that with johnson made easier because we knew each other inside out so it felt more comfortable going into that she'd played dave fed cups previously so she had that experience. She was able to comment as a little bit. And that was the goal for made to play. Fed up is it's the biggest highlight you can have representing the country so To be able to do that with a kind of under judy who you felt valued g so much. I think it was ended up being just a an amazing week on forget It's overseas a person close to my heart. But how would you describe judy Style of captaining very much doing what you need to be able to get the best out player you know. She's not someone who you know shouts and screams you. She's very you know we'll put an arm around your shoulder Very caring Does whatever you need to do issues. Very inspiring She's got a very calming presence And again those weeks. She tries to make fun. Obviously the goal was to get through the grief and get through to the playoffs but ultimately it like united. Go out. there have funded what you need to do. And she knew gonna fight for her and give it our all So i think for me. It was just unite. Show study supportive and that was something that really helped me. A new mentioned officer. That was one of the type of expedient Other types of expedients. Did you have been the doubles players Let me see i. I was lucky enough to play fed cup multiple times Then the experience of playing the slams and kinda tended to be oversee. Now we have more girls who do play the doubles bot They tend to just kind of be me joss. We were the ones it we would kind of like the only doubles place. The new british doubles place tournament so That it was like getting used to that as well os- lucky enough to play commonwealth games as well so that you know i've had many experiences very grateful you can play cover. Stay games with joss. The that killed may won't come lawson. I finished full. So i didn't even get a context. Listeners ruined understand that bit joyce ray played for scotland eltish. Yeah it'd be called games and won a gold medal in the mixed doubles with colin fleming. So harnessed armenta that week. And i remember literally joss. I've never seen just play so well. She was on the believable. That we like anything she touched tend to go. Remember that fine. She was just know. Cnn that final. Apart from them winning was the bugs yeah in they were like flying hamsters of his unbelievable. Like i was almost this. Is a scottish. Terminating bulkin on the tv knows that they think joe's at one point swatted one away and it got stuck in her strings as a all. That's it yeah. It's a a an adopted. scott. Joe srey brilliant. Sure so funny that way. She was just like kaz. Jobs is just silent like chill. She doesn't think about anything like that. And then all of a sudden she is just like standing on the on the podium. And she's just won't come with golden you dislike. I couldn't happen to a better pass and and going back to the fed cup so you did you play on durant yes yet. So who was. The captaincy comparison had not competing people. But just the may be different styles or things that bring to the table again. You know it was. It was different Because i think it was twice under so it played in Estonia when we played in the world group will involve group in the euro-african sorry I said that was kind of the round robin. And so i was kinda picked in the team but again it was i didn't either. She play any of the live as but again you know she was supportive but i think it was more of an emphasis place kind of own the singles But i suppose that's probably just more from had that grunion. She was mainly singles Sushi kind of focused only singles players in then. I played a tie when we played japan and we lost in the deciding doubles and she oversee head there in jovan instead so again it was just more the that was kind of what she favored. She was still supportive Elegant captain mom but it gets. She was quite a kind of more a captain again. She kind of tried to put the emphasis on the team. Spirit and nothing. She did that while we we had great weeks in april was behind. Everyone and i think one of the good things about us all the probably one of the things we get taken the mic out of is that we always come to fed cup with a huge entourages does end up being such a team week. We probably end up like twelve thirteen painful compared to like you know. Croatia hewlett. She have fed cup captain and a fitness trainer. The i think. That's what makes the week so specialised that cameraderie and everything so what we talked about in the singles. They you reach of high of forty six in doubles. And if you compare you know the the expedient of being successful in doubles compared to singles higher does it differ. I think for me. It's is quite similar. I think i don't have a more of a failing success or failure. Whatever with singles or doubles. I think 'cause i'm such a perfectionist. Like probably most satisfies most sportspeople. You always think you can do better. And so i think that's i think that's what i always kind of look back on in our could've done better could've got higher and i think that's that's the kind of powered by is hard to look back and said you know what i shared it. Pretty well The are you always have that sense of you know i could have done more. Could you pleased. He celebrated sometimes. Yeah i definitely. I celebrated winning. I appreciate all that was like a huge thing. Because i think i think justin i had made like fi finals before and we hadn't won we've been like close in quite a few times I remember we may find the nottingham like our home own. She had the the family. They're in everything. We lost two cops giants in space like ten seven. Something in the final set tiebreak and we probably should one. We like a jury. That whole week To finally it wasn't with joseph which would have been amazing but finally kind of get that monkey about quiz unite was amazing and That was one time. I definitely did elaborate. So give us an insight. What was the role control celebration like do you it. We're in nuremberg again. It was literally just made my partner in comerica. Am i think we literally just had like a massive gracie berga really like much else to do with coming in the middle of the. We weren't really close to anything. So he just had like a gracie Girl just had dinner together. It was just quite nice to to do that. But definitely when i hire my hat's a nice dinner with a must be a tennis thing so burgers for celebrations. Always pretty good with what we suggest. Let lisa level of fighting a losing battle with my son on this thing. He asks retreat in what he's asking for is like chocolate pretty much. And i'm like he's not a trait is not. He just quite rightly doesn't understand. It does feel Strange that we want to treat yourself to something that is not good for this. But listen quick endorphin. Release that you get from. It is worth so are signed of the fed cup. Well let's go to the slams. What's your favorite slam. The four key played the mall in doubles wimbledon. And what is it about wimbledon. I mean you've been that especially is it's i think obviously being Helps you have that crowd support and everything that this just something magical about wooden Whether the tradition the history whatever is denied. There's nothing better than will on. Today's girls colts in just having that failing so Yeah all day everyday. That's wouldn't it funny because not been have many times. It'd be nice but you know more than twenty anyway. And every time i walk through the gates. The hit in the back of my neck goes up. Which is. I'm not an overly nostalgic or romantic type person but it still definitely has that or nearly one of not been twos asteria. So what what's For you australia's that she ridiculed. I like. I like the fact. That is a bit more out justin. I actually did the best that we did that. We made third-round in australia. And the crowd is just so funny Yeah it's just a different atmosphere They're still traditional stuff that there's less united what wimbledon with your whites and everything you can of do whatever You've got the night sessions as well. And i tonight that it's just. It's just quite relaxed quite chilled. So i like the contrast. I think you kind of have that between all the slams which is on ice each slam brings something different. Although probably french open is my least favorite. No that is not good. But it's the full the on the slam surface or just not think. I think it's just more of the the place like i love. Melbourne sandlot london Love new york and heiresses. I kinda give or take paris a little bit and i think it's just more the the p law everything she said that more like up tight laugh at here because it's like the yin yang of attic cash so union yang's ethic the free of selfless french. Kuch you heart. Let's we take the rest of the french. People like typical parisian life. Acid typically south of franz berry chilled out on is so. That's that's why we gone so well so if you present listening to this then please don't take offense but not all i think it's i think it's a now. I'm getting the spader digging a hole but it seems to be fairly universal tax it anyway the so it would be remiss of me to move on from the doubles without mentioning luik as so give a little bit of Sought to what. What's louis like as a coach I mean he's a genius to start off with his record. Speaks for itself He's a very interesting character I've never met a coach. Quite like him I was lucky enough to work with him. You know with fed cup He was paul. Judy's team so justin. I go to spend a little bit of time with him Which is incredible. Unitl us pretty much all of the stuff that we are An implemented in all game. And that's what really helped us to improve. The united states do Almost mathematical with him. It's not it's not tennis or fail. It's it is angles and this and this new hit this you win this percentage point so you do this and it's just so kind of he makes it is kinda complicated. Been in a very simple way that you can understand on. He just kind of it was almost like an epiphany when you sold continue a lot. Oh wow mike. You've just literally made it. Tennessee simple whereas on a single school. I think you can get a bit complicated whereas he says if you get a bowl here you hit it there. Ever have to question at so. I think that was good. I think the thing. I struggled with a little bit with him was when we do sessions Case so we're going to work on this four hundred or something anina you at once and he will okay. Got it a move on college. done it. once by accident. I know it one. Do you just let okay. You got something else and that was kind of. I think the hardest bit for me in the need. Go away for a month or two and say stadium on analyst comeback in. You'd expect us to do it perfectly of the fresh skit. He had this high standards in his record speaks for itself in what his done. Especially for the men's side. It's i mean it's phenomenal. Definitely a special character and my opinion on this formula based approaches are genuinely believed. The more and more i think about it. There's no logical reason why we can't apply big parts of that two singles because if you look at even just before we came on watch rafeh raffin sit surpass play. It's it's not rocket science. What they're doing you know it's is when you do this. I do that when i do this. I'll do that and do that. You know it's very formula based and the one thing. I think coaches again if they're listening going all but it takes away the creativity in. It's nonsense because i think creativity comes from a foundation of practice in a one. You can really do something. Let your same without forehand volley if you really owned it and felt you could do then within that you can be creative and choose to do when not to i think. That's a boever myth or misconception and tennis coach so louis big for you. So let's say move onto our last chapter if you like You are now delved into the world of tennis coach in. That's how we got to know each other a bit more. So what are your ambitions for tennis. Coaching highly willow for him. Not i think. I think for me it's i. I never necessarily thought. I wanted to get into tennis coaching. I think it's just in the last couple years. When i put my injuries and about she got to experience it the it is something that i'm i'm passionate about whether it be in singles with younger kids over the kids with doubles players So i think for me on a personal level. I want to keep going to be the best coach so i can be In whatever age group in kind of stage that is You know i suppose. Ultimately i'd love to fed cup coach at one point because it was such a special thing for me And t- night to have that kind of only doing that. i think would be amazing The i just wanted to kind of work pau And kind of see where it takes me. I don't really know Kind of war will park. That's gonna take but yeah i suppose. Fed cup will something in british tennis. Where i can really make a difference with. Be the dream as one of the things. That's impressed me about your the way you are on the course that we'd be sitting hussy obviously people listening to it. No you don't need to but the is that you're comfortable working with players aren't in performance in nothing. That's probably if i was to give you a tip is cut your teeth in as many different things As you can because the skills that you learn from taking like a group of nine year olds will ultimately in some way help you. When you work with any player you just take. Snippets of the expediency is massive. So right let's. I never do this but i'm going to ask you. Who do you think's gonna win this. Julian open. let's go women's i. I saw pca. A sack. Is going to beat serena who are going to be in the final carmen In west tennessee Thueringen brady brady and mutual. Yeah i saw cassini all day long who she played in the final radi. Have you played any of those. Four players serena naomi jennifer or of i knew qualities are now i think actually have. Who's the biggest superstars overplayed by freewheel. In this new england you played against the. I played against our practice. The most nasty The single note your favorite or was your favorite player. What was that. Like their e. Surreal at surreal arc. Sarin remember the first time we ever just not practiced with her. It was in eastbourne by the wpa. And so we'd signed up just to practice and we literally get on the cool and hingis and measure the and within like all we signed up with you. Is that or i. An is literally on inflate so cool and i was like yes. Show lights on our own the And yeah the first three minute charlotte she thinking just started mr start starting next like give her a good hit of them we. She had a big in the minnesota. And i was like this is so cool And then we played the couple of times go absolutely duffed in mixed doubles by herron. Jay want someone with an absolute tool lesson. East flown a couple of years later per year. That was that was very cool. No i've been lucky to moonlight some pretty cool players an immense. Whose win in the men's like a really don't want to say i think jackovitch is gonna find a way and it pains makes want him to win. The i would fight doesn't like to do a ourika. Nevada canosa conscious at one is slam players but doesn't do himself any favors without hold make injury thing in an he's like to round since and you know clearly hampered but you know the against fritz look like he was gonna need a stretch or This something about jovovich. It doesn't in day him to pay than nice same thing with me. It's just. I've have a theory about this right. Not just an opinion on it. I think he should embrace it because the thing that makes him not indeed ing is that he wants to be liked and yeah. Yeah and it's like so i. I can have said this several times over the years. I think he should grow a beard grow. His hair long weighed big headband. At this become like a nostalgic kind of villain tight. I think know it would be entertaining. I don't think it would use tennis any good. But it's it's almost that you know it's like any person who tries too hard to be like or loved. This comes across too much anyway. Sony nevada county new vice. A huge fan of the story a day sad. What will happen now is all fans is super fans will be attacking me on social media so look forward to that so we have come to a natural conclusion because i am starting to chipper of rubbish. And it's been a real pleasure. I've really enjoyed let genuinely enjoy getting to know us through. The course that were doing. and Really thank you so much for coming on the show not say. It's been a veterinarian. A half we've done honestly it's time slide these podcasts. If you get straight lots lloyd minutes you'll have that was a like going off in so many different directions but really it's a points that have been raised. So thank you very much. And i'll see you whenever monday. Yeah that's it.

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Serena vs. Venus | Rennae Stubbs: On the Court | 6

Sports Wars

39:01 min | 7 months ago

Serena vs. Venus | Rennae Stubbs: On the Court | 6

"When you need your bank capital one is right in the palm of your hand, so you can check your balance deposit checks pay bills and transfer money from your phone with a top rated APP, and when you're done banking. Put it back in your pocket. A banking experience built around you and your life. This is banking reimagined gets started on the line anytime. What's in your Wallet Capital One NA member FDIC? From wondering I'm Dan Rubenstein and this is sports warrants. For our entire series we've dissected the rivalry and fascinating careers of all time tennis legends, Serena and Venus Williams one just an Alzheimer in the conversation of greatest greatest greatest ever if she already is there, and Oh, yeah, her sister, who's won seven major championships in Venus Williams and there isn't a debate at all, but who better to discuss their careers and their span on the W. Tour. Then renee stubbs cheap herself a six time Grand Slam champion, both doubles and mixed, doubles and winner of. Thousand yes, a thousand professional matches over the course of a twenty plus year career so today we're GonNa talk about her experience in perspective on the Williams sisters both up close, and now in her role as a tennis commentator for ESPN Rene Thank you for joining me. Thanks for having me. Support for sports wars comes from our friends at rocket mortgage by quicken loans home. Today is so much more than it was yesterday, but at rocket mortgage home is still about you. During these challenging times we're all experiencing the top priority at rocket mortgage is the health and safety of the communities they serve, and while things are changing quickly every day. One thing that will never change is their teams commitment to giving you the best mortgage experience possible. That's why if you need mortgage support. Their team of experts is there to answer questions and offer solutions. They understand that hardships happen and they're here to help whether that means working with. With you to save money on your mortgage or finding a new way to navigate payments if you have questions, the team at rocket mortgage has answers. They know how important your home is to you because you are important to them. If you need mortgage assistance, the home loan experts at rocket mortgage are available to help twenty four hours a day seven days a week from their home to yours. The team at rocket mortgage is with you. Visit rocket mortgage dot com slash sports wars to learn more call for cost, information and conditions equal housing lender licensed in all fifty states nmls consumer access dot Org number three zero three zero. Did I. Get all those stats right? Yeah I never know what people are going to go with, but that was good thousand. Number number. Yeah, That's. Just means I finished at a really elderly age, but but I managed to still make it. And I was thinking as you were mentioning about the Williams sisters in their record, and you should have tagged by end. She lost a lot of matches to them on her in her career. Okay, so who between Serena and Venus? Who did you feel like? You had a better chance against? And what did you learn up close and personal on the court with them? Well I'm more than thankful that I. didn't have to play them in singles That would have been I would have been a lot of fun for me to do that I. Mean I had the pleasure playing great champions including. Steffi Graf and Lindsay Davenport, in various singles players, but I never never played Venus or Serena, but I have known Venus and. And Serena Buzz since I was young kids some literally I think that would ten almost twelve at the time when I met them for the very first time, at Pam Shriver's exhibition match in Numb, in Baltimore, and I'll with Pam, and she asked me if I wanted to hit with these quote, unquote kids from L. A. that. She was bringing that apparently. Going to set new world on fire, Varsity tennis will concern, and I said Chaurreau happy to you know and and hitting. Those two people were of course, Venus and Serena on me. I was already on two of them traveling full-time, and so they would have been somebody who would looked up to me for example when they're so young and are memorable. Court and Pam said to me. What do you think and I said? Yeah, pretty good I said the little ones better, and that of course was Serena at the time, and I just made that remark because I just felt Serena. had been a technique even as a ten year old but. Having, said all of that name. Venus also has had quite an incredible career herself, so it was it was. It's been phenomenal for such a long time we've obviously played against play against vitamin doubles many many times and a lot of big matches. Including my last Grand Slam final at Wimbledon. which had lost to them in a really fun right match, but in to watch them sort of mature into their older ages, and now Serena as a mom and Venus as an entrepreneur and Serena's entrepreneurs will two great champions in two really good friends in the end so Watched him go through it all so now that we have the long view. What what was the biggest advantage of Serena and Venus is upbringing away from the so-called establishment of academies and clubs and tournaments in the way that a lot of kids around the world. Come Up. What was what was their big advantage? Well I think. Look you know the one great thing you can say is that Richard Williams and our same Williams in particular, particularly rich, and he was on the court. I think within a lot more. He just told them the real basic fundamentals of how to play tennis and you know he'll be the first one side. Look He. He's not a controversy. He's not A. He's not a normal tennis coach. He didn't play tennis himself. He he watched, and he sort of emulated one of the things that has always impressed me particularly with Serena's. His ability to teach her. How to the perfect serve Have that Beautiful Service Mushin? And you know he's always really big on fundamentals like getting low in the legs getting the racket back early, I mean he's describing me when he walked by me screen, but he would say stuff. On the practice coat like Rene. Benji, legs more, you know. He just said some really classic fundamental things in then he also had two incredible competitors in his daughters that wanted to. Just, pushing each other end success break success, they were pushing one another from such an early age to be Betta that they couldn't have had a better role model themselves to to play against so. Just. The basic fundamentals affected with each other all the time. The fact that Richard could give Alice on the court. And, then they moved to macy in the sort of gotten so. With a couple of other coaches in those pivotal younger years and then. They just they're just credible competitors, and just they they set aside some being the best in the world on a very young age, and they went out on a cheap day, and they have incredible passion for the sport, and they love to win, and that's undeniable. What is the big disadvantage of youth? You talk about the advantages of obviously having a competition. Competition with your sister who's also as talented if not more talented, what is the big disadvantage that and not even just the Williams sisters, but any teenager growing up on tour, going up the rankings and playing against mature women, physically superior women, you know people who are more skilled and more experienced with this lifestyle. What is the disadvantage that teenagers on tour face? Well, I think that. For the women in particular I think it's I. Think it affects more the guys because the guys physically it is. It is more of a man's sport. You, you just develop a little bit later. You become biggest strong survey. You become a better move of physically you are you? Hit the ball a little bit more aggressively. Your your game changes as you get more. As you get older and you get Y more physically fit. Whereas with the women the physicality. As much as it's changed a little bit over the last ten years, there's no question about that. You could still be very very good. At sixteen, seventeen, eighteen seventeen nineteen years of age against someone ranked WHO's thirty years of age, because the physicality doesn't change that much from the age of eighteen nineteen, comparative to thirty for women certainly can, you can definitely stronger and foster, and all of those things but I think you have this sort of like of stress when you're seventeen eighteen and a lot of is go out and just hit the ball, and if you will physically able to do that as a young apply like Venus and Serena were, there were so physically. Gifted even at a young age, but you you think about someone like Martina Hingis who is not physically gifted, who didn't really grow becomes stronger even when she got older, but had amazing timing of the bull, so women really rely a lot on timing of the bowl, and the physicality doesn't really affect them much I don't believe as much as it does the men or Boys! They're sixteen seventeen boys in that stage, so women can kinda handle it. There are times where they are physically. Overwhelmed there are some women who was sixteen seventeen. That will be in five years time a lot more able to stand up to someone who's ranked in top ten in the world in thirty years of age. So, it just depends really on them, but physically Venus and Serena were always so you know so gifted and so strong, and they just become even better at that as as they have to assume a lot of their early success also is the confidence that they had that was instilled in them by their parents and the confidence that. They would look at other players and they'd see that we're hitting the ball. Harder were hitting corners that they're not hitting consistently. We are attacking balls and other players aren't attacking mentally they. They seemed like they were. They were ready to roll from an early age. Does that sound right? No question, there's absolutely no question about that I think one of the things about by Venus and Serena, is that they were surrounded Now it with some players whether or not emotionally positive. They really struggle with them, being positive or believing in themselves, and I think some of that has to do without bringing I think some parents are a little bit, too. Too tough on kids, they dining, still looking at the positives they they pull out two things that their kid didn't do well. Practice or match hop on that as opposed to the great things out of the ten things that they did whereas I. Think with Venus and Serena I. think that from what I saw and what I know about them as people. Is that both Venus and Serena were surrounded by people that only told them. How great that we're GONNA. Be Only told them the things that they did well sure. You have to work on the things that you've missed the. You didn't do great and I would go out on the court and do that, but boy. They didn't hop on it and I think that's a lesson for so many parents or coaches out there is that your kid is trying their best so always? Always make them feel like they're best can get better and the stuff that didn't work will be stuff that they can wipe confident. You never hop on the negative and I feel that Richard An arcing. Positive with the kids net until listen. Everybody can learn from what you remember about Serena specifically that she had almost day one that she had an still has during her career. And what do you remember not having and sort of developing along the way? Oh. That's a great question. I think that looks serene. Serena's always as I said when I when I hit with her, which was ten surveyed. She always technically was so good. She really wants she was really You know the Serb was absolutely can hit back. End was beautiful full hand early preparation. She didn't have a lot of weakness in her volleys Internet net game With something that she. Can still get better at but she was so intimidating when she came in that she made a lot of players Waitresses in game, and I think that that is why she was a lot more consistent than Venus for example, Venus had a few little issues in her Guy as far as his second serve, and her forehand and. But I think I've role Venus. Venus Serena could let go of disappointment so well on the court and I think one of the things that Serena got better in particular, because Venus didn't really change that much Serena. A better it just handling her emotions in the biggest amendments and using her sort of her. Because she's a lot more emotional obstacle than they turning that into a positive letting, go with disappointment. It's been one of the things. It's kind of harder in the last couple of years of when she's come back. Is that the emotional side of her has? Taken cotton investor her in some big matches and I think that's just getting older I. think that you know you realize that. Your time is coming to an end. She has a child now. She wants to win so badly that next Grand Slam with. With her daughter in the world now and admit it means too much to her Moore's before she could Kinda put, she can detach from the outcome and just play. Or, as I think so I, think she controlled remotely throughout her career and I think now. That's the biggest most important thing for her to handle if she's going to. Cross said. Know that the twenty four Grand Slams was that the big element that she was able to overcome when she finally did because you loses a lot to Venus early on, and then I think she turns about twenty twenty one years old. Is that the what she was able to sort of harness that really flipped her career past her sister, who was herself a sensation as a teenager? I mean let's face it. Every older sister has as we say in Australia the would over their youngest siblings for a long time. Right and while I'm Malaysia if you remember the latest sisters Manuela Maleeva Catherine Labor Maggie Malaysia, and that's one of the West Story of tennis. You know the three inside the top ten, and it was always meant well that one. You know she was the older one, but then there becomes time where the younger one says. No more like I'm ready emotionally now to look down the other end of the court and play you based on your merits of the bowl. It's coming to me and and also learned that it's okay. To to handle my motions in that moment because I think Venus early on could handle her emotions. A little bit better in sort of had the would've Serena emotionally mentally, but then one serena kind of took over. She was in my opinion, always a better little bit better, a tennis player in general just with all. The way she plays her serve her groundstrokes. She doesn't qual- Venus has a couple of little things. You can attack if she's not playing well. Serena really. She didn't have the so I. Think wants to rain a new that she could beat Venus straight up. And believe it mentally than I think that was the difference. Mike, Change the course of their career. You overlapped with and got to know Serena on tour over the course of at least a decade. How did how did Serena change if at all with with regard to how she handled the fame and pressure of becoming? UNIMAGINABLY dominant. One of the things I always say about Serena's that she lives, she lives. She plays hot and she lives hod like. She really enjoys everything that she does she. You know even if it's just enjoying her life off of the court and you know she got. Both Dana censoring a little bit of A little bit of flack in careers for not applying all the tournaments taking some time off. Various different times in a career. For me. It was the best thing that they did because sometimes needed to get away and not be consumed by the game of tennis. They started their own businesses and various different things and I think. One of the things that. Serena has been able to do is have the longevity of a career I mean looks Venus is still plying forty tonight so. You know they would make fun of me. For example. When all applying into my light booties, I'M GONNA. Play the my las woman vinyl study eight and I mean they used to give me such a hard time. That are still out there. Not as a jug, but I used to say to them. You're not that far behind me United States. So, of course, it's still out there. The both of them still playing so. The longevity of the sport is that they took some time away some Tom. But in the end it was good for them to be able to rejuvenate and come back and be competitive because they hate losing. For fifteen years now I have watched Serena particular deal with that pressure, and it's not easy and. When you're expected to win every single match every time you walk into the court I, don't think anyone can ever unlit unle-. The great the Steffi's Christian. Martinez the Roger Federer Rafa. Novak can really understand what that feels like to have that amount of pressure on you and that scrutiny on you all the time. Every time you will come, attend schooling and it's something. Something that only a few people can with, and she just happens to be one of them, and she's been great at it for twenty years, so it's It's been something pretty incredible to watch the maturation her as well as a person as a human being So I think that that's something that people don't realize is the emotional stress that these plans are really under. Social media now assist. The scrutiny is just it's intense I was gonna say is one of those secret spoils of their success that they were able to afford to take time off I'm sure a lot of players would love the ability to say. I'M GONNA put a racket down for six weeks and just recharge and get my legs back under me and read books and travel, and then when I get back out on the court, I will have a newfound sense of energy and urgency, so it was it really their success, and the ability to afford to take time off. That gave them such an advantage in terms of perspective and longevity. So much they can afford it just because monetarily they could I think it was more along the lines is that they knew what they needed to do to continue to play the game that they love at a high level and I think. We're seeing that over the last few years with Roger Federer taking some time. rehabbing various different things and you've seen how players come back. I think what happens is someplace. Don't WanNA. Take the time off because they're they're. They're afraid to take time off their tot not short, they should. What if they fall behind? You know not making any money like they think about the big picture. The the macro picture of how can I stay in this game at my highest level and be happy and I think the last few years because the money is better as well. Place really should look at. How can I get the best out of myself every single time? Time, I'll walk on the court and they might not. That may not be playing five weeks. It may be playing two weeks in a row and taking some time away and coming back, but you've got to have an incredible amount of self belief in yourself to be able to do that and trust the. It's the right thing, and you may have a coach around you or a loved one around you that says this is how you are going to be better than you actually enjoy this sport by taking some time wife from it sometimes obviously. Serena always end, Venus have both had. Some really bad injuries as well. I mean obviously Serena almost die with the blood clots in her legs, and she's had numerous amounts of problems with your knees. So. She had to take time away as well. But I think that that also renewed at in renews your sense of. Love for the game when the game is taken away from you when you don't want it to bay, so she's had the both of them. She's had the ability to have step away when she doesn't feel like it. She'll often takes off the rest of the year after the soccer. For example in doesn't go to Asia. So that's prolonged took career. I believe for. A number of us. Yes someplace. Don't have the luxury to take that time off and take three or four months away from the two of because is a lot of money in China riot, but Serena Kent so monetarily. Yes, over time they certainly had. A lot more financially alone easier to deal within someplace, but if you think about it, as apply of many you, taking that time off, will, you can reinvest that. It's kind of like a dividend, right? You just keep reinvesting your dividends as opposed to going after quick. Sale stock sometimes investing dividends will actually pile up over the years and I. think that that's rings done so well. Hiring can be difficult, but if you're a company that's currently trying to hire you. Face new difficulties from safety reopening your doors to finding the right person for a specialized role housing wire could relate. 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Find the right person for their role, and they did it fast, so see how ziprecruiter can help you hire. Try it now for free could price at Ziprecruiter dot com slash sports wars. That's ziprecruiter dot. com slash sports wars. Global pandemic protests across the country a nationwide recession so far twenty twenty has felt like ten or fifteen years wrapped up in one and I think we should talk it all out. I'm Sam. Sanders I hosted NPR podcast called. It's Ben Minute each week on my show. I have conversations with all kinds of people to make sense of the news and the culture without making you feel overwhelmed. Join US every Tuesday and Friday listen subscribe now. It's been a minute from NPR. In retrospect, does it even more impressive that Serena at least not against anybody? She's related to didn't have a clear rival. She wasn't going back and forth wasn't Nidal and Federer wasn't McEnroe and board. It wasn't you know we see sampras-agassi any sport you see players and athletes that are motivated by a rival a specific person. They that gets the best of them occasionally. Is it almost even more impressive that there isn't that one you know? It wasn't Maria Sharapova. It wasn't Martina Hingis it wasn't Jennifer Capriati. All these different generations is incredible that Serena was that self-motivated. Well, I think the Serena. She? She's always had vagueness so this has always been Ah, bath for her. You know. Venus is GONNA go on the court in practice for two hours I'M GONNA go to us. If Venus is going to do this vans. Is GonNA play? I'm GONNA play like she's always cited that Venus has always been her biggest role model so I think obviously play against Venus and had to plan some very big matches including the last time they played a Grand Slam, not that long ago, the strain in the final. So she's always had to feel like she's had to stay Venus from so that's always being there for her. which is gripe thing to have in your literally in your backyard? Second of all she's had amazing. Champion that she's had to play against throughout her career now they might not be a long long. The lines of a rough Raja Novak raw for example or in Montana, but she's had some unbelievable rivalries through the years haven't lost long. Because a lot of places of retired for example, I can give you some classic examples, just an I mean just the and Serena had some absolute. Knock down drag out. Incredible match destroyed. The is now if just ain't lying ten million. She was the same ages I believe in Serena if she find ten years which you had that rivalry probably would serena of one more than just staying probably, but don't not Kim. Clijsters decided to have a child at twenty five. Left the twenty five years of action and came back and had some incredible matches as you know with Serena through Hickory. Lindsay Davenport Was a short period of time there as well and I mean the list is long right. Marasmus Jennifer Capriati some of those matches unbelievable so. I will say a Lotta. Those players retired early whether they went to have families, or they lost the love of the sport or wherever it was Martina Hingis like. So many great teams in that period of time that might surrender better the whole time and she lost a lot of those matches as well. She want a lot. They always made her bed and then somebody else would come along. Yes, and Maria came along. Okay going to be better than Maria you know when she lost them, rant seventeen. Seventeen of women that made her better. I'll never lose to her again. You know what I mean so all the great champions that came along. They didn't have the longevity of greatness. This arena had of course, but she's had her sister had to push her that Hawaii, and then she's had all of these incredible incredible place. Push throughout her career and now. She's having to go up against the cobras in the helps in. Various different places the beyond Kendra skews. It's been for me. It's phenomenal. That keep coming at her and she's still there. Is there anything those incredible player incredible champions, those three or four years at a time that they overlap with? Serena, is there anything they have in common in terms of why they specifically were able to have success and really compete with Serena whereas in some other names that you mentioned really were not able to hang with Serena was. Is there anything about their game specifically either mentally or physically that those players have in common? Honey also I think everything does a great place main some of this place at a mentioned. Harris, Athletes players. She just did not have a awakeness. Kim, clijsters thing right competitor, great athleticism, great move and A. Big Hit of the ball could could sort of hang serene on the baseline. End, physically end. Bowl striking-wise. In you know you think about Martina Hingis suit could sort of was so smart in the way she used Iran's Powell. She could move the ball around the court. They all had None of them had witnesses, and that's why there will number one. That's why they won months multiple grand. Slams I mean even. Play that I'm I'm coaching Sam Stars. Who beat Serena and the two thousand eleven US Open Folles constraint actually a blade three times. Sam has a huge serve and had a huge win. So when Serena would get a little bit Nova Sam could match up in that department, and if Serena didn't servewell Sam really took advantage that with her big forehand so i. just think it's been made some credible means during started out playing against people like Steffi, Graf and they had some incredible matches Beckett back when Serena was just starting in Saran and Steffi was getting to the end of the career so I. Think all those. Those great players main Serena just work harder something near, and dear to your heart is obviously the fact that Venus and Serena play together at a number of majors and big tournaments on the doubles court. What what do you think that did for both of their games? Both in terms of on-court ability, and just in the midst of enormous terminal, an enormous tournament with with huge pressure. What does getting out on the doubles court? Do for I don't know perspective or mental health for them. Well I think early on in that career I mean unfortunately for me because I lost them so many times in some big batches I mean beacon one time when they were kids and that was that, was it? I mean every time he played against them. They were either I. Often played them lighter in the tournaments whether semifinals finals, a Grand Slam so finals, and by that time they re the winning the singles of the tournament or they were One of them was winning the singles, and then they playing unbelievable doubles in when you play them in a final or They're seeing the ball like the size of like a basketball, so it was great for them to play because they get back out and they've practiced early in the morning all the time. And then it was a way for them just to get out and play a match they in the two things that they did so well in doubles in particular or just in general serve and return so in doubles that just shopping day game in its shopping their singles. Ability Beverly, return the bowl and serve the ball and I mean for me. What they did on the doubles court is is unbelievable I've never lost a grandson final, which is unbelievable, unfortunately went down in one of them, but you know I believe one four. They've won fourteen grand slams in domes. Mean that's phenomenal, and that's not even enough credit for the time. They put out there on court. People say well. They don't WanNA placing was dumb because it's too hot, but they proved that that's not true and a of great players in the past did play singles and doubles I mean we. Have Kim classes well number one in singles and Doubles Martina Hingis. Martina, Navratilova, a a ranch Sanchez. Lindsay Davenport so all those great champions of the play doubles and I think it helped them. To be just better test plays in general. Made them work on Navales. It made them work on one to kind of shots. That doubles is so nine four. They've had to change the way they play. Because a lot of people, seven bolt volleyed back then, but that was also good for them because target practicing on the practice at laws in various different things. If people come into the net against them, but I think in general, it just helped them. Feel good I mean they just? They just didn't lose very much, so it was good for them to go out there and play together I. Mean I couldn't imagine doing anything better than winning a Grand Slam with my sister, so the head to play each other in some really big matches and want to join up and actually had a good feeling about being caught together and I think that helped them and boy. Did they achieve some? Incredible things I just wish they'd retied playing doubles. Is Is there an element of Venus's greer and I know she's still active, but is there an element of what if considering the injuries that she's incurred and considering the fact that her sister was on tour at the same time is on tour at the same time is is there an element of what if or was she just too specific a player with with power and grass and hardcourt. Well. I just think that from the very beginning. When our first solo adjust thought Serena was a little bit better as far as technique is concerned, and they both have an incredible will to win I think that Serena's. I don't want to say it was more, but there was just something a little bit more on edge with Serena like she just. She just was so sore competitive, and so was. is Venus. But I just think technically. Just, a few more weaknesses in Venus's game as I said when she would get a little bit tight, notice beforehand, breakdown will, and the serve would break down. More console was lot more tackle so. There's when you look at great plans you have you have to pick a witness? And you have to go after that witness and the greatest player didn't really have any weaknesses. You just had to grind them down on hope that they had a bad day, and you had to play your best match. And Serena doesn't really have a lot of weaknesses. She doesn't she forehand and backhand virtually the same shot, maybe her back a little bit more reliable, but better beforehand can be deadly. The serve is unquote is unquestionably the greatest shot. We've ever seen in women's tennis And and so dominant. You're saying half the points starting with the greatest weapon in the history of the game so inevitably she was gonna more Venus of. Professor was as dominant as Serena's, if not even bigger, but it just wasn't as reliable and particularly the second serve, so there were times in Venus's career. What she a little bit nervous! The second so went off so you have to rely on that? And he knew that that was possible as a competitive, you could just hang in there and get her into titus situations. You knew that you know as Billie. Jean Oasis, bad technique breaks down under pressure, and so the technical side is being game would come to the fullest sometimes under the biggest of stressful `circumstances and those things would break down with with Serena. She didn't really have taken. Play any. Waitresses so therefore when the pressure was on the witness, it didn't really show up because she didn't really have a technical witness. Finally the unanswerable question. Have, we seen the last of a William's sister, hoisting up a grand slam trophy or Is is the the. Ripe for another champion William's sister. Well I think I think it's going to be. I can't imagine being a story yet. I would love to. Nobody would love to see Venus Williams. Win another grand. Slam more than me. 'cause I just think she's one of the greatest human beings that we've ever had a no sport on an off the tennis court. There's never been a more graceful human being and off the court You know she's doing her thing. But I think for Serena is definitely a chance. I think that if the US been happens I've been asked this question. Who Do I think can? We'll be prepared to play Anna and who can win it without having played a match since. Early, February February this year without a Lotta match. Fry Play Austin be Serena You know there's there's a couple of plays like beyond Kendra skew. Serena Donadoni Lawn tennis to bring their best. We saw last year in full display was threatening coming back and doing what she's done. Grand ply without a Lotta tennis, and beyond who won three huge tournaments last year and basically played in six events so I mean you. You sort of look at implies ago. How who needs a lot of tennis supply right and who doesn't and Serandon Bianca for example would be to place before the. Again, if it happens and. There's a I'll never ever ever count out Serena. If she's fit and she's ready to go, she's a debate. She always be It's just. Can't she? Close the door? In the biggest matches like the final and control her emotions to be able to get the job done. It's a big deal. and you know everybody wants to do it and nobody wants to do it more than she does. And that sometimes the pain that stopped so now. Is that her her want for is almost too much, so I hope she does because no one wants to see a break Margaret Poets record than me so we'll see time will tell and if it doesn't. Well what we've been so blessed to have both of them for. Two and a half, almost two and a half decades which is Spain an incredible ride to to see the to I mean for me the greatest sibling story in sports history. And on that note Rene stops. Thank you very very much for your time and perspective. Welcome. That was my conversation with former grand. Slam champion and current broadcaster. Renee stubbs be shirtless in a her and watcher. POPs up. Our next series dives into the history of the Harlem globetrotters and their fight to change basketball and the culture at large. From, wonder, this is episode six of Serena versus Venus for sports wars. If you like our show, please give us a five star rating and review and be sure to tell your friends subscribe on Apple podcasts. spotify the want re- APP or wherever you're listening right now, join wondering plus in the wonder apt to listen and free. You'll also find some links and offers from our sponsors in the episode notes supporting them helps us keep offering our shows for free. Another way you can support. The show is by filling out a small survey at wondering dot com slash survey and tell us which sports wars stories you'd like to hear. 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Episode 266: Glenn Greenwald on Martina Navratilova

No Challenges Remaining

1:07:40 hr | 7 months ago

Episode 266: Glenn Greenwald on Martina Navratilova

"The. Welcome to no challenges remaining. I'm Ben Rothenberg and I'm delighted to be joined on this show for I first time guest here Glenn Greenwald of the intercept who is obviously a journalist of considerable repute, but also is a big tennis fan, and also dipping toes into the journalism of tennis. World Ver- relatively big feet to be dipping in our little pond. Glenn thank you for being here I? Appreciate it. Yeah, thanks for having. Having me. I'm a big fan of of the tennis reporting. You and I. Don't know. Maybe there's a part of my brain looking to steal a little bit of your territory so I don't know I'm still entrenched in the political world. So I think you're. We're all say for now. According I want to have you on the show according to out on this episode, but we both were very interesting article you wrote. Earlier this week, recording this on July seventeenth at about Martina Navratilova and your efforts to do a documentary on her. Which you talk about publicly before I, think you on Jon Wertheim associate pockets talking about it a few years ago just to start from early on how you got into tennis early on in your in your childhood. So, it's interesting, because unlike a lot of tennis fans, I never played tennis as a child no one in my family play tennis but I grew up in south Florida and there was a big fandom for tennis. I think principally because Chris Evert and the whole Ebbert. Family was so prominent in south Florida I grew up in actually a suburb of for uttered L. Very close to the park where Chris Evert learned to play tennis. That might be part of it, but also at the same time people you know who are under a certain age. Don't realize that prior to the advent of Keeble. Network sports was all there was never they showed. Is is what you kind of have to watch, and although tennis is in these days considered one of the biggest corporate sports back in the seventies and eighties when I was growing up with the Borg McEnroe rivalry, just John, McEnroe Jimmy Connors in general and then the Everett Navratilova rivalry tennis. was you know not necessarily in the level of basketball and football and baseball, which is one small Ebel underneath immediate was a big deal, and so, whoever followed sports my? My father was a very avid sports watcher like most of the men of his generation. Were you just naturally watched tennis and I became very engrossed by it for a lot of different reasons, they didn't figure out until later on life from a very early age I was definitely a huge tennis fan of men's tennis, but somehow even more of of women's tennis, which I always found more interesting and more compelling and engrossing for two different reasons. What do you think those reasons were looking? Back I think that. It had a lot to do with the rivalry between and Martina because I don't I mean they were so dominant I mean when you talk about women's tennis. You're really talking about of that. Air Your before. Steffi Graf came. You're really talking about players and only two. There are a lot of other really interesting players would make the semifinals quarterfinals in top ten, but those two dominated the statistics. There were six years in a row where no other player won a grand slam besides them, and then finally had him on League of a one one. they were constantly battling for one in two. They were in every single final, made it so fascinating wasn't just the dominance, but the complete and total. Class on every level. You know some people like the federal at all rivalry, because there's a clash of playing styles obviously, but is there really a clash of personality that's so evident with Roger Federer and a dollar, their political or cultural implications to who wins like kind of feel like there's nothing more at stake in a federal match than who gets by their next big boat, whereas with Martina and Chris, the trajectory of both of them crispiness kind of all. All American girl who came from this very all American Catholic family who became the beloved face of Corporate America who played the baseline who was super consistent, who had control over her emotions versus Martina went through all kinds of changes came from the eastern bloc fled. Communism had this incredibly interesting life story never really got control over over emotions until well into her career, so was a very aggressive baseline player. Just the the the COMPA- The contrast between both of. Was Not only so compelling, but so multilayered. Cultural Psychological and even political that the drama was very intense, and they're always seemed to be so much at stake for me in these matches, especially, because as it turned out, Martinez ended up as one of the only lgbt celebrities on the planet at the time. That obviously added an added element for someone like myself growing up as a gay teenager in the nineteen eighties in the world of Reagan and AIDS, when you were kind of clinging for anything with which you could be would you could identify on that level I am as long as you just touched on there. I I I think you're absolutely right that the sort of thorough polar opposite miss of Chrissy and Martina who are not you know from almost all the robbery and all bitter rivals per se, but there were very diametrically opposed on different things, and how they are perceived and personalities like you. You said there's a bigger personality contract with Martina being much much more expressive of which may be going against the grain of what this narrative about eastern yeah, in cold and icy, and all the typical Hollywood versions to them that Americans got on the other side. Christie kind being the model of traditional feminism right and yet at the same time, almost showed no emotions on court ray was kind of the classic Ice Queen is they used to call women. You didn't express any so even that contrast is fascinating. Yeah, definitely at as you say at the end there I mean. I think people who are. I sort of became tennis conscious at the very end Martinez career after Kris retired, but I already could tell us imprint but sometimes awkwardness her and her love life in the sport. You mentioned this in your piece about how Martinez has her wife, she married an non-legal ceremony, but did marry in a ceremony Judy Nelson in the stands sort of forced conversations to be had by sportscasters who weren't used several conversations. Conversations anywhere viewers aren't used to hearing those acknowledgments of same sex relationships on TV especially with prominent sports, figures and dominant sport figures, too. So I think I think there's something that I think people should of just how ahead of her time Martina was especially I think with her enlisting engagement of Renee Richards as a coach which brought a whole different tier of trans ability at a time in the early eighties and Renee. Richardson played competitively matured in the late seventies, where that was just so incredibly ahead of the curve in terms of when trans visibility or people existing even being talked about yeah I mean there's so much star Tina that was transgressive right so. You know being openly gaming people forget that a year or two after before. Martinez came out Billie Jean King kind of was dragged out of the closet as result of being blackmailed by her traveling secretary Maryland Barnett, and it was considered scandalous because Billie Jean. King didn't WANNA come out of the closet and identify as as what was then. She called the bisexual woman whereas Martina. Was a lot more voluntary was kind of I'm not being dragged out of the closet. A scandal of shame I'm I'm coming out This is who I am increasingly comfortable with it and proud of it right as you say I'm GonNa. Put My wife in the players box so that when you scan the players box and have to tell everyone who's there to support me in Chris Evert her Catholic, mom and her sister, and whoever a boyfriend was at the time Jimmy Connors or other you know male athletes, but here I'm going to have you know what was called my long term companion or my special friend sitting next to my trans women coach, which you know, nobody even understood what it meant to be transit time. Let alone wanted to talk about it publicly, but then there's another aspect to Martinez transgressive, which I think probably impacted how she was talked about in perceived, and might even be more enduring, which was how she. She redefine what female athleticism was you know Martina I came on the tour in late in the mid to late seventies, she came out of Czechoslovakia. She famously defected and got to the US. She was eating fast foods in the US you know kind of the US diet filled with with fat, and she gained a lot of weight and and it was a big disadvantage for her. She had this huge talent, but you can really make her way around the court, and then in the early nineteen eighties when she developed a relationship with the Star woman basketball player at the time Nancy Lieberman who became her coach and put her through this unprecedented training. Regimen Martinez Body transformed into this. Incredible Muscular Force of nature that for women was deemed not only shocking, but inappropriate. I remember the one time Sammartino when I was a child, she came to. Miami competed in. This is ABC program called superstars where celebrities competed against each other, and I remember seeing the building muscles and veins on her arm, and it was common, not only for Sports, writers and sports announcers to comment derogatorily on her status as a gay woman, but also there was almost a sense like. She wasn't really a woman. Had, transformed era I. Don't have people probably remember that in the when Emily Marasmus at the age of nineteen, shocked making the finals of the Australian. Open, and she had a very big Physique Martina Hingis called are half a man that was the kind of language it was very commonly used to talk about. Martinez was almost fair that a real woman like Chris Evert had to compete against Martina and as she transformed her body, she became even more dominant. She beat Kristie fourteen times in a row at one point, but to this very day you know we celebrate really strong powerful bodies like Serena Williams. Because, Martina blazed that trail in the early eighties, when doing so was anything, but admired. Yeah, no, absolutely there was a lot of a lot of mockery of her and a lot of trying to dehumanize or deep woman is I guess her through thing that she was not a real woman. That's why she was winning because she was sort of had an unfair advantage. Advantage somehow that either they would equate her homosexuality with her being the woman with her physique thing. Let's a woman in the chew sort of beating up on these poor defenseless little girls out. There was a lot of time the framing that her career got, and then it took a long time for a lot of fans to come run. I'm sure some never did. But later in her, she got older making them. More sort of which is classic trajectory for athletes especially in tennis. As Folk, the focus on her softened a bit. You Serena as well yeah, that she became more sympathetic character and more more popular for the some of the time she went out. She was pretty at least got a lot of audible of support from the crowd I don't know if was refers. Yes, they did once for Chrissy or further sort of beloved stars the day but yet. Yet she had an absolute during to go on in that she he took a lot of lot of bravery I. think she resonate with a lot of people for that reason I remember. This is separate threat, but I was doing a. we did a show on here a few years ago about music about tennis, and there was a remarkable number of songs about Martina Navratilova by. Artists largely, but also other people. It's amazing only when we announce the film that that will get you that that I wrote about you know it made a big splash. Because it was being in partnership with Reese Witherspoon, so it penetrated into Hollywood circles and other places that might not otherwise have have reached and the amount of people, the number of people I heard from WHO said Oh wow! Martina was also my eight. Oh, my role model, secret hero, growing up, really shocked me because that was not something. You're aware of at the time. That was not a prevailing. And yet. She obviously meant so much. There's so many people who felt like they didn't have a role model with whom they could connect for whatever reasons of ostracization they were doing I. Remember reading I think it was a book by Michael Musharaff fallen the tour and nineteen ninety-one, and he talked about have called ladies of the court, and he talked about how there was a sort of traveling group of Martina, diehard through. Follow her everywhere the tour just her as being their North Star in a lot of ways, you know this group of Lesbian Women Who Song Martinez being there. Their leader is being their cultural symbol as being their face their. They won with her. They lost with her. Had so much invested in her and her career in her symbolism that I think she really really resonated with them for sure, so yes could be hit to the to the film so she. Martina retired from singles and ninety four play doubles again through I. Think Oh, six or seven. What? What made you want to to an this point? Yeah, and they're just by just add to that she she winds right. She wins her fifty ninth. Grand Slam title one month shy of being fifty years old. which is another just kind of extraordinary aspect to her with? What a physical specimen she was, she was winning. Grand Slam titles at the age of fifty right through two thousand six. So what what made her? What made you at this Kerr? Obviously done a lot of different things he said. Primarily in politics different political arenas. What made you want to devote part of your now? Career in work doing something on a tennis player on this tennis player from an era gone by largely. What what made you want to us? It was it was interesting because you know when I a the work for which I I I became kind of most known you know, internationally was the work that I did on on reporting on a as a any at NSA spying result of the work with my source. Edward Snowden. The made around the world in I think that's how Martinez became aware of of who I was. She might have been a little bit aware beforehand. Particularly and I started noticing at first, he was tweeting in support of the work I was doing because at the time, it was pretty controversial. The government didn't really appreciate the fact that I was going around the world publishing all of their secret documents and I noticed that she was defending me and supporting me, and at some point on twitter I think it might have even said something like wow. I'm so kind of amazed that my childhood hero, Martina Navratilova. Is speaking up my defense that led us to kind of started chatting. You know who I think. We changed a couple of tweets. And then maybe a couple of of of of of direct messages, nothing nothing out of the ordinary or significant, but for me the fact that she was speaking about me and then to me, it was funny, because by that point in my career I as a journalist I've met a lot of famous people I've interviewed world leaders I've. Come to know some of the most prominent people on the planet and I've never really doesn't faze me in the slightest, and never forget the first time that Martina and I spoke I could barely contain myself and I called. My were my best friend from childhood. Who always knew about my Martina fixation. And could barely speak as I have said in the piece it was like a teenager meeting their favorite pop star, which was very out of character for for me, and and how I interact in it and. kind of got me thinking. Wow, what is it? Why is it that this person? I can meet world leaders and people who have done extraordinarily thing to politics and I can talk with them with no problem. But why is this tennis player have such a whole, such a profound psychological. Hold on me. Why did she have such a claim in my psyche? Growing up in you know it was not an easy question to answer. The obvious answer was while I was a gay kid, and she was one of the first and only openly gay celebrities at the time, so that's an obvious answer, but it became apparent to me that it went much much deeper than that, and just the fact that growing up as As kind of a Jewish kid who was prepared to go to law school always knew did go to school, and you know was very politically interested like I'd have other more obvious. Childhood heroes like Daniel Ellsberg was one of mine the Pentagon papers leaker Woodward and Bernstein also who I admired, but not you know a check, lesbian tennis player from the Iron Curtain, right? That's not a very obvious child here for me to have, and it led me to start asking. What was it about her and about how she affected? Being that was so significant. What does that say about how we use? Human beings have the capacity to. One another in ways that transcend standard demographic and cultural and gender boundaries and I've spoke to a couple of people about it. WHO said it would make a really interesting short film just to follow you for the first time that you actually meet Martina, and the more we export it. The more we decided, it could actually be a real deep feature film and I developed a pitch for it. Because I became kind of fascinated in understanding. It I didn't know what the answer was and everyone we showed it to. You know like studios and directors and producers. unlike what happens with almost every time you have a film idea where it's hard to get you know more than a handful of people interested everybody was blown away by the proposal and wanted to do it. Emily were fortunate enough to have our pick and reese witherspoon had just created production company that she had great success with with the allies the HBO. HBO show that was devoted to telling stories of strong complicated women, which fits Martina perfectly, and so we were able to close a deal with with reese to develop the film because she was incredibly excited by. It always was to go on a search for that answer for why Martina held such an important place in in in my life and my trajectory. Trajectory, and I think the other thing that I see from the outside in this, but I think you mentioned this in your pizza's well. One of the other moments Martina I think like you. This fair unfair is it remains sort of and iconoclast in a lot of ways in the remember when it happened the interview with Connie Chung that she did which. which I you remember that I. Do you Remember News Coverage of that? At least I don't think I watched it I, but remember it being written about and being struck by so it was I think in two thousand two, or at some point, during the drumbeats towards the Iraq war in the US. Yeah, exactly it was two thousand and two when when? It was still in the very kind of post. Nine eleven climate would nobody was criticizing the Bush administration, except in the most muted and respectful tones at Bass Yeah Martina Given interview to a German newspaper, and she just slammed Bassett George Bush Dick Cheney, basically saying you know flat, a communist country because of the oppression of basic political liberties. I, came to the United States in order live under a system that respected individual liberties and individual rights, and now in the name of terrorism. They're exploiting people's fears to crush civil liberties and to usher in. In, this incredibly repressive regime that I never thought I would see the United States something that literally nobody had the courage to say at that time about George Bush and Dick Cheney and the fact that she said it created an a huge controversy in large part, because there has always been this idea that if you're an immigrant of United States that you have an extra duty of gratitude, rape at a look, our country opened up its arms to you, and even though Martinez had long been naturalized US citizen. There's always a sense that if If. You're an immigrant. Not Somebody born the United. States is a naturalized citizen. You're never really a real American, you're sort of an American through generosity of the country and therefore you ought to be a little more careful about the kinds of you boy here at our pleasure catapulting, yeah, something that was Martina was never interested in accepting the minute she became an American, she fully embraced her complete rights of dissent and speaking out, and that was the other thing right was if you think back to the big sports stars of nineteen eighties. Eighties kind of the iconic one being Michael Michael Jordan Michael. Jordan never opined even in the most anodyne waivers about any political controversy, because he never wanted to risk losing his very lucrative sponsorships, Martina was the opposite. You asked her what she thought about anything and out came. You know whatever opinion was on her mind without the site is regard to how people thought in that was a great example was to step forward under those repressive, you know. Conditions were journalists and political leaders were intimidated and speak her mind in such a provocative way. Absolutely so knowing all this, I agree with everyone who loved the pitch. I think it makes a lot of sense for to the story on the on the meaning of her. The meaning of you and how you to intersect. So as you're going along, when did when did things start to get novices? All laid out the article very well, but if you can just talk through also when things start to get, I started to get complicated in the process when he frontier count as a first hiccuper or speed bump. Yeah, I mean it was. Ever making films easy I think making a film about someone complicated as Martina is even more difficult because kind of it. It's difficult. To find the right director since I've never directed a film I'm not a filmmaker and it was a different kind of film. It wasn't. It was never going to be a biography of Martina, right? That's kind of been done. Some great books have been written about the life Martina. It was really going to be a kind of joint exploration of Mike Teenage years and how they were shaped by her. So there's already kind of a off the beaten path kind of film that required some inventiveness in order to figure out how to do, and then it also needs to be to be somebody who understood Martina. The way I understood her to really understand why. Why. She was such a compelling figure, so it took a while to get a director. We found one who has great took a few months, and we realized we didn't have the same creative vision. And then I finally found the perfect director who happened to be a trans woman who had directed a film about her own life as a trans woman. She grew up in Montana. Went Back to Montana and filmed what it was like. She was the captain over football team. She was the captain of the Tennis Team Kimberley Reid. And she went back to Montana for the first time as a woman after her transition and kind of film, the reaction and it was incurable, powerful moving film we met. We went to New York. We click perfectly. Our Vision for the film was incredibly compatible, but with enough creative attention to make it interesting. She was around to sign on, and then we were ready to start filming, and then in December of twenty eighteen. kind of out of nowhere Martinez had seen a photograph of a Trans Woman Who in her mid thirties, started to enter female cycling professional competitions where there were monetary prizes and you know. trophies and rankings, and all of that whose name is Rachel McKinnon, and unlike Renee Richards who kind of Martinez Reference for how Trans Women? Become women how they compete in sports. Rachel McKinnon had never had any gender reassignment surgery, so she had all the male genitalia with which she was born. she also went through the her whole life. She went through puberty as a man, she developed muscle mass as a man, and about a year before she enter these professional cycling events would she began to dominate? She began taking the hormonal protocols required by the sport to kind of transform the body physiologically from a male body into a female body. And the picture that became very popular among anti. Trans activist because it shows Rachel McKinnon kind of towering over her competitors, looking much thicker and more muscular and much taller, holding the gold medal next to these ciswomen who have who went through their whole lives, women designed to be provocative Martinez Saad and she went on twitter and kind of the spur of the moment, said wait a minute. How can this be I? Mean you can now just be a man and say that you're a woman. Not go through any of the surgeries. Just declare yourself a woman. Take a few hormones, and then you get to compete against women when all the prize money went all of the trophies, and then just go back to being a man. That seems incredibly unfair. And needless to say. It was expressed on twitter, which isn't exactly the epicenter of nuance and thoughtfulness and generosity. The reaction was very swift, was very vicious, and was very unforgiving, and immediately resulted in huge numbers of people, Declaring Martina Navratilova who had devoted her life to equality and fighting for people who are marginalized declaring her to be a big hit. You know kind of unrepentant hater that somebody who was anti trans and transphobic for having said what she said Martina apologized, said that maybe she hasn't thought through or educated herself enough about this topic. She deleted tweets that people were saying where offensive and she promised not to talk about it again until she was able to inform herself better about what the issues were. that. Caused my director, a trans woman to already start to get uncomfortable with Martina. Wait a minute. Who is this person? I'm about to make a film about, but still being a great director. You know she didn't need to love Martino. It was supposed to be a film that was going to examine not her just surf laws, but mine and all of our complexity. Complexity was about human complexity wasn't about the perfect human right. The problem was Martina adhered to our of silence. She went away for two months and quote. Unquote educated herself. When she came back, it was in the form of an op Ed that she published in the London Times in which he said, I've now informed myself and I believe more than ever. that. It is not only wrong for Trans Women to be competing against women who have lived their whole lives as women. It is a form of cheating. It is stealing. It is taking these people's prize money just because you take some Mormons, which means at anytime. He could stop and go back to being a man. Make Babies, and it's incredibly unfair and I'm vehemently opposed to it shortly after that Renee Richards, who was obviously a pioneer in transmissibility. She sued the WPA nineteen seventies for the right to compete as a woman after transition. gave an interview saying she agreed with Martina and she even went further, and said that the only reason why she sued for the right to compete on the WTA after her transition was because she was already in her forties, and it was a disadvantage was losing in the first round Virginia Wade in Chris ever, but she said had I been able to compete as a trans woman in my twenties. Basically I would have beaten these women to a pole. It would never have been a fair competition, and it's not fair, so Martina and Renee Richards jointly took this position. That is deemed in currently bigoted and hateful and offensive in the Trans Community which is a translation, shouldn't be able to compete in female athletic athletics and obviously created a major major problem. For the film in also particularly for the Trans woman who we were about to hire. It. A lot you cover there the first thing I want to get to sort of. Thank. You talked about the lack of generosity. On twitter and on social media is I definitely kind of that a lot I. certainly very familiar with that hopefully, if not express it myself that much, but I'm sure I have moments of it and I'm curious. Where do you think that comes from in this mistake of discourse, I sort of sometimes referred to it as being like the whatever the? Benefit of the doubt is is what exists on twitter. The worst is sort of assumed about everyone. Even people like Martina. Who have? Later elaborated double down on these things but. What is it that you think makes people so quick to condemn right now? Where does that? Where does that instinct come from? Well I. Think it's such an important question, because so much of our social action in our political discourse, our social discourse has increasingly being conducted. On these platforms that are fostering this kind of hostility in this complete lack of generosity, particularly now in the middle of the pandemic, which were where we're all mostly confined to home, and interacting with one another more than ever digitally in virtually and as opposed to. As human beings? There's almost this kind of like reward system. This incentive scheme to have the world be divided into heroes and villains. Part of it is if you look at how twitter functions the space constraints of twitter from the start the fact you can only express yourself in two hundred eighty characters at a time already eliminates any real opportunity to communicate in the form of nuance. Time I've experienced had this experience where I fought with somebody on twitter viciously, we were both kind of performing for crowds. Everybody putting the you liked me. Everybody probably not person, and then when we said you know what. Why don't we have this discussion outside of twitter? The whole thing radically transformed right because now we weren't talking to screen names. We were talking to human beings. We found common ground. We made concessions rhetorically to one another. We ended up liking each other. Maybe not fully agreeing, but but everything was less demonized, and if you look at the way the Martina. Controversy unfolded as it did for the article I wrote I, really went back and studied how it unfolded kind of the granular detail it. When Martinez said what she said it was so clear she was really just asking earnestly. She had seen the picture and she was like. Wait a minute. How does this work? You know she was she was. It was nothing more than that you know. These are radical changes for Trans Women to compete in in in in female sports. I think one of the successes of the game movement in convincing people to change how they think was that there was an effort to engage people on a humanistic level, and to say like look. We're not these demons lurking outside playgrounds, trying to recruit your children where your brothers and your teachers and your neighbors and your pastor, and it was a very kind of humanistic way of connecting to people social media. Almost destroys that possibility, so Martinez Ernest question got treated as something militias, and even though she was pleading for forgiveness. Saying, please understand I. I didn't mean to offend. Please put this in the context of my entire life's work of not just fighting for women and gay people and marginalized people and immigrants, but also transpeople. There were zero willingness to give her that space or that generosity and I think the reason is is because the way we gain followers on twitter. The way we feel like the hero of our own story is if we're battling demons and monsters, and to the extent that we. Treat other people as more complex, the ability for us to become to to gain those social media benefits diminishes. Discussed before something similar happened with the professional tennis player tennis sand grain at the time that he made the quarterfinals of the Australian Open out of nowhere. Basically it'd been you know Journeyman, the challenge tour for years and overnight. He got transformed into this evil figure and I purposely reached out to him to see if that was accurate and and Kinda see what was really going on, and the more I got to know him. The more I saw that there was actually a multi layered complex. Complex person who had some really good sides to him in some really bad ones like we all do, and that is what it means to be human right, but twitter and online discourse prevents that humanity for manifesting, and that was how someone like Martina Navratilova got turned into. You know like essentially the equivalent of Pat Robertson like within twelve hours. It's really amazing to watch. If you go back in retrospect and steal it unfolded and I do think it's right. It's just sort of shocking how? Little Martinez. And legacy mattered when it came to you know who else would want to respond with their own, two, hundred, eighty or one hundred forty characters, whatever it was that that Diaz two hundred eighty, then respond to her, and to sort of gain their own cloud I think through tearing down. I'm not saying that I agree with her tweets also, but I do think they are. They can be read misuse to refrain of generosity more generously. Take. That was given. You can't give her more benefit of the doubt. You can't say hey, she somebody who is startled or confused by something. She sees in Women's sports, which is something that she's done a lot to elevate the role of women's sports and she's being protective of this I i. agree with what you say to skip ahead to. This and people may wonder this in the article. I think you don't really come to a conclusion on the fairness or unfairness of or just what? What's the inclusion of transient in Women's Sports Eyler? Group that I'm not? Necessarily decided either way, but I just think that yet with Martina everything that she did building her legacy at that time, the skipping had a little bit after the editorial she did I. Think One of the Times. I believe she was expelled from athlete ally. Right, which is which is a US based lgbt sports visibility advocacy group. And for them to kick out Martina. Given her lifetime body of work I found incredibly sort of startling that people can that people can't sort of with both things just emphasize that Ben other than Billie Jean King it is impossible to find somebody who has done more for women's sports, and for the causes lgbt athletes in Sports Martinez, and in fact I would say while Billie. Jean probably deserves more credit for having built the space for female athletes to thrive. Nobody has done more than Martina for the cause of LGBT. Athletes to be able to compete anywhere on the planet for the last forty years watching Martina Navratilova talk spelled from an advocacy group for lgbt athletes. would be like watching Martin Luther King Junior. Had He not been assassinated? Be expelled from a group devoted to combating. Because his current views aren't fully in sync with the new orthodoxies. It was really startling to watch that happen. So I guess this gets to sort of the issue. As in the headline of the article on the intercept and talking about victim is being afraid events. How do frame canceled culture these days and I think it's just it's obviously in your. You talk through your own thing I. Think he put it pretty articulate article. You're not saying that you have. have been canceled. Preserve been a victim of it, but it is sort of this lack I think the culture is a different way of framing. I think a little bit. We've been saying terms of just a lack of generosity. I think that's it. That's a tentacle, it or aware of it, and it makes things. It makes things tough to do when there's a lot of constant sort of purity testing happening right in in sports, those are all sort of related. Phrases these days are not in sports and culture more widely. Primarily sports phenomenon. That, People have There's such precision which with. Certain evaluators of conduct on the left and the right and all sorts of different directions politically expect people to. Toe The line in order to be permitted to have Voices Martine I will say is to her, not to her credit is not a particularly precise. Speaker General turn prints of her social media platform. It thinks she's sort of. Is Somewhat of a carpet bombing strategy on her twitter across. Not. Not, not not to be look I mean I live in Brazil, fifteen years I'm married to a Brazilian congressman empty resilient kids I obviously speak fluent Portuguese. But to this very day. I make errors in my. Writing and Portuguese I. Don't know what he's expressed myself with the level precision, my second language, as I do in my first and I never will. which isn't make an excuse for Martina at all I think she. You know especially in that op. Ed Wood Gabe very thoughtful and I'm sure had helped with editors writing it. But I, think the broader point, this whole thing with cancer culture, the thing of worried about the thing that I worry about most is. Look Martinez going to be fine right. Lake Martina made millions upon millions upon millions of dollars in her career I. Don't think there's a lot left of it for a lot of different reasons, but she. Certainly you know, find financially. She's married. She has two beautiful children with her new wife She is a TV announcer. She's admired around the world. She's not canceled. Right like she's allowed to appear in public, doesn't so I think the issue in terms of Kant's called her not a big fan of that term because it doesn't really. A precision in terms of how it's wielded ending a lot of times. What happens is. People who do have powerful platforms who are elites who are protected, used the term and what they really mean by. Is it used to be fifteen twenty years ago that we could say what we wanted in that we didn't have to hero out of attacks, and now because of social media, the mob people who aren't competent to criticize us. Now. Get to make us here what they're saying and I think there is a kind of petulant to that critique when they use it now. What I worry about is the deeper phenomenon which is. If you watch what just happened to Martina Navratilova. And you're somebody who doesn't have the status in the power that she has right like you just work in a company you don't have any financial security, but you're somebody who does want to kind of asking question and understand better because you're confused about these changes when it comes to transmit his ability or other profound social changes that are taking place all the time. Think how deterred you're going to be. How intimidated you're going to be. How repressed you'RE GOING TO BE! The solution is just GONNA. Be You know what I'm going to be silent? And this is the repressive atmosphere that's being created when even someone like Martina Navratilova is sanctioned, punished and attack and expelled. For doing something that really. Whether you agree with the views are not largely. Don't I? Don't get vehemently. Disagree with them, but I largely don't. Didn't come from a place of malice or hatred or bigotry, obviously it came from a place of at worst confusion in an attempt to understand, and maybe just a difference of opinion, a good faith difference of opinion in creating this kind of ethos societal. Wear differences of opinion are dealt with with dialogue and discourse and understanding, but retribution and castigation in exclusion and ostracization. The worry that I have isn't for journalists and writers in athletes with big platforms. It's for ordinary people who don't have any of that. I think yet. At the beginning of that answer I think about. What people how People Power? People who now are seeing more backlash to what they're saying. I think is part of the as part of that I. Think is the less Ernest version of people using tossing the words canceled culture around in that, there's been a social media one of the positives of it. I guess is that there's been a democratization of gets a platform that anyone can now. Responder replied anybody. In so more people have voices, the do who are. Officially voices in terms of not having a space in the public discourse. If you count twitter's being public discourse, not that it's on the same level even still is. The op-ed pages of some prestigious newspaper or something where people used to be the only ones who got sort of opine now the entire winter dot com website is driven opinion, section, and a lot of ways in. Which is great, which is great great? In theory for sure and definitely I think can add overall is definitely a positive thing, but it does make people who used to think that their views were special, because they were a columnist for New York Times something less special now. There's resentment of that evolution. Of this, but it it just it. It also seems like on I think it's not a coincidence that the issues that Martina ran into were issues with. About Trans discussions about Trans Rights visibility, trance, debates, sports, or anything like that because I do think they almost seem that. That vein of discussion seems to occupy almost uniquely electrified third rail in discourse right now and I think that's moved very very fast to its credit marginally, but at a time when some people like Martina and other people I'm sure as well have. BB had a tougher time keeping up with how things have evolved because as we said the beginning Martina with somebody who was. Undeniably a pioneer in promoting and accepting and embracing trans, women, in society, with what Renee Richards and for her, now that she's fallen behind, I think it's is relatively understandable, and in the in the race for the again where I would have instinct towards more generosity that I think she's been. She's been shown I. There was a particular sort of. Flavor to to the advocacy happening around trans. People and Trans that's. I find that such an interesting I find that such an interesting point, and and like the question is why right like why is terms ad Why does it have this kind of different flavor? Why does it seem more in Taganrog warlike than other causes that have been just as threatening to the social order? Have you know before I contrast it where the actor is made in the eighties and nineties mostly in the nineties. Around gay issues, which obviously in our lifetime have transformed radically. where I think there was an effort to kind of engage people and you know of course some. On the like, but it was really the reason. Why ultimately one because? People got persuaded. They got brought over to the cause not through being bullied into submission, but through dialogue and discourse interaction. You know the other example that I talked about in the piece. The first director that I had before I had Kim read. was Kimberly Pierce, who who was the director of the Nineteen Ninety five film? Boys don't cry, which was a you know an amazing story. She Kimberley. Reid was in her twenty s no one in Hollywood newer. She put together this film. It was about a trans bully in Nebraska, who was murdered at the age of twenty, one raped and murdered, and she got the film made with new studio backing for like less than two million dollars, and it was a smashing success. Hilary Swank. Who she cast in the role of the Trans boy won best actress when the Academy Award over Meryl. Streep and Julianne Moore, and all these actresses who are. Incredibly acclaimed and I tell the story about how you know. Now she goes on and speaks on college campuses about her film. She herself Jenine Binary, Kim peers, the film was incredibly trailblazing. It's time and yet she gets protested trans activists who accused her of Transphobia for having cast assist woman in the role of this transplant instead of a trans actor. You know, and they don't just criticized for it. Which would be great? They try and shut down her speech. The scream until she has to get will be. Escorted out of the campus by security. and I wonder if that's because Trans Activism, being so new has largely taken place on social media. I was going to say for absorbed a lot of this kind of more acrimonious conduct. No I I think it's sort of a artifact. Present ten cents of. It's time you know. I think that it's sort of this. The milieu in which I mean think of again it's incredible. The progress has been made in there. A lot of progress left to go for the Trans Movement that I hope does happen in occur swiftly. There's a lot of opposition. They faced from certainly political forces in many countries including the US. But the tone of it is through me. Think of the big trans visibility moments obviously to be basic like you know when Caitlin Jenner, had her magazine cover reveal of her. Coming out as Trans that was that I I saw those images pop on twitter around two, thousand, fourteen, two, thousand fifteen, maybe and so it's very much a recent recent phenomenon. That doesn't have you know whereas earlier moments like you know. The Gay Rights Movement served the LG. LGBT at least at were happening, making bigger financial steps in the eighties and nineties when the platforms for these were. More they weren't as. Ratchet up as sometimes the twitter delegates thinking a lot of ways, and you certainly see this again with with like blasting. Nothing unfair of JK rollings other person who's in WHO's incurred a lot of wrath recently as For for her comments on Trans Issues again which I'm not saying that people wrong for disagreeing with her a wrong for critiquing her, or you know whatever you want to say, but it does come with a certain level of The way gets revved up I. think is a is a factor of sort of motive. What it does is it destroys it destroys. You know like it destroys. The complex of our humanity on just like us. Another tennis example that I think is really interesting. Is You're really good friend longtime a buddy. Who you know like for a long time was talked about as though he was some kind of like incarnation of Pol. Pot Radio like he did have one incident early in his career. That was genuinely terrible. misogynistic a comment that he made sinecures when he was like what nineteen or twenty. I always say that one of the things for which I'm most grateful is that there was no Internet when I was twenty years old to record every one of my comments. Let alone huge numbers of TV cameras following me around at the time. How many of us could survive that with our reputation intact? But you know over the years like it's turned out that he's an incredibly complex multifaceted human, being right like he does a lot more charity work in a way. That seems a lot more. More. Passionate and genuine than a lot of is much richer peers do he seems conflicted about whether? Tennis ought to be dominating his life as a human being, which I find kind of admirable, just recently, when like Novak, Djokovic Bitch and Zahra and dominic team seemed perfectly cavalier about spreading Kobe nineteen to whoever they felt like spreading it to their, he was urging responsibility in the name of the public health and I. Think it's a really amazing example of how social media took a complicated human being. Reduce them to this horrific caricature only for these complexities to arise over time, and I think the vast vast vast majority of humanity falls into that range of. Either all good news for all bad and yet that's something that twitter does particularly poor job at recognizing. Yeah, no I think that's that's right is is there? Is there a? Solution this. Is there a way that we can regain? Nuance in this world or at least in. In the bird APP which we all spend so much time on on twitter is there. Is there something that can be done to fix assistive Endemic. Thing when you deal with a a medium like twitter, which is all about being short and trying to really sharpen every every point as much as possible. One of the things I found really interesting. Was You know I'm sure? A lot of your listeners followed I'm sure you did as well this letter that was published in that open letter that was published in Harper's last week by. A lot of big luminaries in the world of Literature in journalism and and and and elsewhere including JK rolling and a bunch of other people who feel like they are victimized by what they're calling. Cancer, culture, or an intolerance of debate or an intolerance of free discourse in general I do think that oftentimes what happens is when there's an injustice being perpetrated in spice in society, the people who are on the receiving end of the injustice are very upset about it. They see it clearly. Clearly the fight against. They often don't have the means to do so. The people perpetrating you don't see a problem because they're not the ones being affected what we're seeing now with the social changes in the wake of the black lives matter movement, and just the general change in social mores is that a lot of the most powerful people are now being held accountable in ways that previously they never were, which is why suddenly people like the billionaire JK. rollings can see yourself as a victim. The author and owner of one of the most successful franchisers of the last fifty years along with a whole slew of other journalists and writers have been at the top of their profession forever. I think the more that injustice get balanced out the more people who used to be solely perpetrators of it, but who are now are victimized by. That's where opening in dialogue can come when we can all say look. I know what it's like to be victimized by this. And now you know what it's like to be victimized by this, and so instead of continuing the war we're. We're just going to keep using it against each other hopefully with increasing levels of destruction. Why don't we disagree that? This entire framework is toxic? You know I mean oftentimes. That's how warrants wars end right one country bombs, the other, the other one bombs the other. They don't end the war because they decide, they love each other. They end the war because the destruction is so great on each side that they both have an interest to stop it. I think that's part of what we're starting to see now with this kind of more Galateri and distribution of these tactics, is that hopefully people for who up for a long time we're immune to it and invulnerable from it are now starting to feel its effects, and that can open up the space where people can start urging some greater generosity, some greater appreciation of what our complexities are. Now. That's hope that's right. That sounds Nice. I don't I'm not sure they're still not a lot of bombs left in the you know in the chambers ready to be fired up a different people in still more destruction on either side to come again I think you're right, also necessarily a lot of sympathy per se for someone like a J. K. Rowling. But that I do think there is an when you're used to privilege and used to having voice. It's not like that you know more democratization. More quality can feel like oppression now with it's not really realistic to any sort of. exterior evaluation. But. Yeah, I I do think there is sort of I some sort of cooling of the Of the of the discourse in terms of temperature of it, I, think would be a great thing to achieve. Maybe the world will be lead in different ways by different less divisive. World leaders that we have now various in our. Countries for sure that could sort of. Think I'd be I. DO think is important just to kind of quickly. Add to it that I think is a separate, but really important ingredient is. In especially in Western democracies, huge numbers of people are suffering in their lives right like they've lost their community. They've lost their the industries that used to provide them employment in their town. They've lost their religion. They feel like their culture is distant from them. They like the people in power have nothing in common with their lives. That's why we see things like Brexit, and the of Bolsonaro and the election of Donald Trump in. These are kind of these are signals. These are symptoms of pathologies, rising suicide and decreasing life, expectancy and rising addiction in modern Western democracies for the first time in decades, and when people feel kind of a lack of spirituality, a lack of community lack of connection, they feel frustration and deprivation in their lives in social media. A lot of times is their only opportunity to. To vent that right so I know like when I talked to new writers, new journalists who are like Oh my God i. Don't think I can take social media. I feel so hated. I feel so condemned what I always say to them is like as somebody who's been through this for a long time now very ways I say like look I know it's not easy. Easy, but sometimes you have to appreciate. It's not actually about you. It's directed toward you. It uses your name, but it's really just for that Ama- expelling their own frustrations. They can't do it at work. They can't do it to their boss. They can't do it at home. The Internet is the place that they expel these frustrations and sometimes I think we ought to think. Think a little bit more about why there's so much anger. That's finding expression on the Internet like. Where is this anger coming from? What is it about society? That's not giving people the satisfaction that they need not to be so hateful and frustration angry all the time. Now that's a good point, and it's just sort of. It's sort of become the repository for some online. Be uncharitable the sewage system people just dumping with any two out of themselves toxic into this into these APPs for everyone else sort of Wade through Yeah, so there's a way to get. There'd be less of that built up in the world in gap, we'd see happier healthier twitter for it to to pivot now. I guess to unless you've. Thoughts on on vk think we should covered pretty well here. The Martina story she did which I get it. Courage I want to read will link in the description of this show you tennis now. You are a member of tennis. Twitter itself. I'm just curious what what what? Roll tennis plays in your busy life these days and what you think about the the sport that you're watching in recent years. Yeah, you know it's definitely still the sport that I. I like by far better than any other living in Brazil where soccer is a national religion and my children are fanatics. I've tried to learn it and I just don't enjoy the experience of sitting for. For three hours in watching a zero zero tie, so tennis is still to the great consternation of my own children, my favorite sport by far and you know I think that it's facing. Some challenges because the men's game has been dominated now for a decade and a half by the same small set of three or four people really three and every time there's new. Young players on the horizon who are decreed finally be the ones to overthrow the hegemony at never seems to happen to the point where you know. At thirty four year old won his first twenty two matches or eighteen matches, or whatever it was to start the year with Jovovich. And federal still being at the top of the game without any real competitors or challenges and I love those players as much as anybody but when? It starts to get a little stagnant at some point right and. Especially because I do think it lacks that kind of personality clash that made tennis so popular, an interesting compelling in the seventies and eighties I think the women's game has always had more conflict and drama. And still does that that does make it more interesting. It also has a more intense variants of of style. Right like the men's game. Is You know you have federal? But beyond that it's very served based holding serve tiebreaks. Power Baseline game is pretty much overwhelmingly where it's outwards. The women's game is much more diverse in terms of tactics and strategies in the kinds of players who who can win, but obviously with the Williams sisters on the way out particularly Serena clearly on the way out. There's a lot of young exciting players, but the question is. Are Any of them going to be? Real Stars Mega says you know asaki probably is going to be Asakusa probably going to be one. Maybe Sophie cannons will be a cannon and a couple of others, but there's still a question mark hovering over the women's game as well I'm super excited for it to start again once it safer to do so because there are a lot of young stars who I find really exciting, I, love watching so I I like. Like watching Medvedev I love You know several of the new players in both men and women's game so I think the game is has a bright future, especially the way it's becoming more internationalized, but thus far there's not been kind of overturning of the old guard that I think ten is really needs to establish its next superstars. I hope it naturally we do get through a transition period than this did happen pretty cleanly. Clean is not the right word for this match at all, but in women's tennis where you had a grand slam final. That was Osaka beating Serena. Mike in the Mesh, obviously freight controversy things, it is a very clear natural torch pass generation, generational shift moment in announcing three. It has done could easily when the US Open coming up. If it does happen next month, but I think men's tennis is for running out of time for that. I. Don't think you WanNa have a situation where the big three leave. Maybe we're already getting there. Maybe they're already knocking beaten at their bathrooms meeting because they get too old. You know to compete anymore and they keep playing, and that's the reason why they're losing. I don't think the nation's good like you. I I really do appreciate sort of. Generation the personalities of players like and end up and curious dad him again. Who Sort of who clearly make it more interesting in? Add a little more friction to the sport because they're people who are disruptive in this way I think my I think my job. DETAILS ON WHY He is but. He hides it and he's very edged. And it's not usually in a charmingly which is fine like connors and Matt Monro weren't particularly charming, either in their worst moments I think my favorite moment of twenty. Twenty nineteen in tennis was when Medvedev. Embrace in the most ingenious and droll ish way the booze and hostility from the US Open crowd, which for a young player to do at that level of poise, and then reach the final was both hilarious and awesome to see. That's the kind of personality that kind of like behavior that every brand manager and ICM. Agent would have a heart attack. Watching that has been missing that we are starting to see some of these younger players that I find really encouraging, and obviously curious is a prime example of that just hasn't found you know that ability sustain his talent any consistent way. What do you? What do you make of? Tennis has a seminars. We were just talking about much about culture in the world. And what do you make of the culture of tennis? And obviously you met you alluded during the main part of the show to you know what was going on with very of team in this Kobe in their lack of social responsibility there. How do you see tennis is an outsider in this moment in what this showing about itself during during the stoppage time? You know I think it's hard to say because there's so many different kinds of. Personalities I I do you under on the one hand I do understand. The impulse to get back to it. You know I somebody who plays tennis as my primary activity, but haven't played in six months. You. Know I've been dying to get back on on on the court I. Barely my house and that's the thing that I'm I'm looking forward most doing with the idea that looked, and this is the ultimate kind of the sport that built for the corona virus pandemic right because it's nothing but social distancing with one person on one side of the net, the other person far on the other Obviously when you're talking about professional tournament, it's much different. You bring tons of people together and we already saw that with the exhibitions. So I I don't really begrudge professional athletes have a finite career of wanting to get back on the tour. You know I'm I become friends with Tennyson? And so I you know part of my view of tennis has shaped by by friendship with him and I mean I know what he did it. Throughout twenty nineteen, especially at the end to become what I think is probably the most fit tennis player now one of the top five in all of tennis that enabled him to get to the quarter-finals, the of US Open and have seven match points against Roger Federer to get to the semi finals. When you've done that, and then suddenly you can't play for six months. Of course you're dying to get back on the court. Right for financial reasons in competitive reasons and all of that, so it's really hard for me to sit in judgment too harshly of people for wanting to return to a normal life at the same time when you are fortunate enough to be in a position of influencing public perception you deal with that comes responsibility, which is why watching Jovovich in bizarre Vera, and whoever else is there I think. Victor Choking and others you know in a nightclub without their shirts on dancing, sweating on top of each other with so grotesque, because it's so reckless and has the potential to do so much damage. Yeah, definitely I think it'll be interesting to see how players because obviously none of them have done much pressure interviews during that how they sort of look back on that time, and if I don't get the sense for. For team talked a bunch a different since a lot of contrition from him, and he was defending Zverev being out clubbing when he was supposed to be in quarantine, even after the exposure remember test started, coming in team was saying. Why are you know they're treating him like he's a childish do that, but also service acting like a child, so I'm not sure what any of that was supposed to mean, but. Actually reside one loose thread on the. Up a bit here on on the Martinez Martinez project do think. Does it have any hopes of continuing? Is it currently stalled in the water? What do you think is the future for you? tennis journalism and I was also. You mentioned it, but you did also think you were credential to cover the the Rio tournament a couple years ago, so you had a actual dip walk in in my sort of shoes for a bit. Yeah! Did I I've been going every year. And add I got tennis credentials on purpose, so I could go to the press conferences and. Felix, you're GonNa have to help me with the project. Name. Yeah made the semi finals. Actually he made. The finals of the tournament was like one of his the first kind of major accomplishments and I was able to, either weren't very many people in the press room. Able ask several questions that I found really. I didn't ask him about like. How is your back? In the second set I was asking him about his kind of trajectory in the culture of tennis on all of that impart with the my film in mind. It's interesting I mean the film stalled. Not because of any of the things I wrote about it stalled. Because in two thousand nineteen I got this massive story about corruption at the highest levels of the Brazilian government that took up my entire work life created a lot of war and conflict with the Brazilian government, and so couldn't really work on the film because of. Of that, and obviously the pandemic stall dead writing that article about Martina and what made me so excited about the film in the First Place Actually reinitiated my passion about the film. and I already have begun speaking with some of the people who need to be spoken to about figuring out ways that we can maybe restarted, so it's definitely something I think it's so rich and so abundant as illustrated by the first part of our conversation where we talked about that era and Martinez role in it that it's still very much something they intend to do in and WANNA do. Wishing you the best or that? Afford seeing it And keep us posted on the progress. Hopefully you find. You need a new director now also. Again maybe maybe. Of I Talked to that that director who pulled out and we've thought she got excited to by the article, so we'll see what happens. But yeah, we're GONNA have to figure out how to get. It restarted best of luck to you on that Glenn Thank. You very much for taking time coming on here. Really Yeah I, think I think your your coverage of ten is's is fantastic and. I'm really happy that you asked me to do this. It's been great talking to you. Thank you thank you very much to Glenn Greenwald for coming on the show I hope you guys found the conversation interesting different episode. Than usual for us, but Clinton's dipping waters in looking forward to his documentary very much, and hopefully he has excelled in getting made eventually. Want to thank all of you for listening once more, you can follow US along. You're not listening by follow. Twitter at NC are underscore tennis you can also. It's unpatriotic. It's the most wonderful way you could support as possibly. If you're able to do so it'd be Great WanNa. Thank our new actually known brand. New pitcher backers are less absolutely did have any Kim bump up to a higher level of support, so thank you for. Doing that any Kim and we wanna thank our slam champ backers as always Audrey Wellens, Joseph, Horror Susannah W Mary Carillo Liz Kennel Chong Win Jonathan, one bomb and Betty as well as our goat backer J.. O., D. again. If you WANNA support, US, UNPATRIOTIC PATRIOT DOT com slash no challenges remaining. Would really appreciate your support there and we have some new exclusive content to add to all the other content. We already have. They're coming soon. That'll do it for us here. I've been one.

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Settling In

PTI

22:34 min | 1 year ago

Settling In

"There's crispy and then there's crispy try our new and improved Tyson crispy chicken strips crispy just got crispy. Pardon the interruption. But I'm Mike well by Tony. Prince Harry has asked if people refer to him just as scary. I'm Tony Kornheiser. I'm going the other way. Please refer to me as the earl of formulas but sounds like a sandwich. It does. Well I would've been the earl of sandwich but that was taking it's actually taken wings. You of Crest I. I have crest toothpaste do it. Do you think that? Do you think that people will indeed just call Harry Harry in America but not in America with a Canada Mexico England? No not an industrial gupte. Yet they're not guilty or not going whether the PTI boys and girls in today's episode the bulbs stick it to Wilbon. Trevor Bauer says baseball has a problem. That's bigger than steroids and Maria Sharapova up but we begin today with the possible. Nfl Labor Agreement. The player reps voted seventeen to fourteen in favour recommending. The package which includes a seventeen game season there was one abstention. How can you abstain the vote now? Proceeds to the players were a simple majority will determine yea or Nay. Will you've been saying the players will vote this down? Do you still think so. I mean I think it's a possibility I'm not going around. I'M NOT GOING TO VEGAS ON IT I. I don't know that I'm not in players homes. They walk to their polling place or more likely to the basement to use their computers. But somebody I also hear influential players and I grant you the most influential players are veterans. You make more money. They have what we might call at stake. Yes but Tony does allow him as a lot. And they're loud they don't WANNA say they're intimidating but I think you're certain young guys who make the minimum could be intimidated by them. I think not. I mean let's talk about. Jj Watt and Aaron Rodgers and Richard Sherman and a pound Russell Wilson and both pounds. Okay they are in the thin crust of very highly paid veteran players. The league's bottom heavy. Most of these is in and out in three years and they WANNA make money. Yeah if they can make five hundred thousand dollars at their age. They're going to say I'm GonNa do this because I don't think I'm at risk for something terrible because I don't play that much and I'm not gonNA play that long. What's totally stunned? Me was player Reps. I thought that vote would be twenty four to eight or twenty six six of sentence I thought against yes really begins so the reason and I told you for a few days now the reason I think this will pay. S is because the player reps and the Executive Council did not say. Don't do it by big number. Fifteen fourteen is not a mandate. It's close open. Close Seventeen game season which I'm against in your against I thought that would be the deal-breaker either deal break. Oh I don't know now I don't I don't think you and I have lived long enough to have covered some work stoppages in the NFL. The union strong sure. Yeah but it ain't the baseball union. This is the gist of the three unions. We've seen famous players cross the picket line and say sorry. Sorry Boys I'm going to Dallas Cowboys. And that's speaks in favour of a deal being pickling ten. Listen in the air. It seems to me what. What area are you sniffing? I'm sniffing the same. What are you saying that comes from famous players? Who HAVE INFLUENCE. We live in a day of social media of tweeting of impressing that influence upon others. So something may feel Lesser GonNa tell you something what those days are gone cookie because you vote in your own basement you make your own sign and you know you resent those players if you're a guy trying to make some more five years what he was like. No you don't get don't understand social media and his pressures I don't. I don't the tired Milwaukee Bucks limped into Toronto for the second of back to back road and came out with a double digit win over the defending NBA. Champion Raptors Great. This was Milwaukee's fiftieth victory. This season there are six clear the Lakers in the overall. They're eight clearer. Toronto ON THE EAST WE'LL BONDED MILWAUKEE. Finally win you over last night I enlarged. Yes Tony I mean. That came first of all. It's a great game. I mean Toronto went out and did what the what the home standing team that has won. Seventeen of eighteen should do. They went out. And they punch Milwaukee Mouth in Milwaukee knock them down Kinda like Tyson. Fury Tastes in London. Said let's go back to work. And what I've always sort of been worried about Milwaukee so kudos there but what else they got. What else did guys Middleton GonNa play this way in the in the playoffs? Well that's not yet been answered. Middleton Brooke and Robin Lopez bledsoe Wesley Matthews even Chisel on the night with David one for seven. He also gets seven. Boards They Have Ensemble George George Hill. They have ensemble contributions. Tonia that all support the great player. Jaanus I know you thought that when Malcolm Brogdon left disintegrate. I have not done a couple of things that didn't you see Toronto's Mascot Drake so he's carrying those those wwl trying to mock continent Gumbo and the box is there. How does that taste now? Here's a couple of statistics that you don't see very often and teams not great Mike. Thirty four wins out of fifty by double digits eighteen by twenty or more in the last few days they destroyed your boy Joel embiid. They destroyed him and then they went on the road and a good team. The only reason I think people haven't fallen in love. I am honestly. I think there's a prejudice against the lack of glamour. Yeah in Milwaukee. Yes Lakers. They're not the clippers. They're not the Miami Heat and the sixers. They're not glamorous right they are working. Tr they are totally agree with that completely. They don't have middleton is a star in terms of his production but not a star in terms of the way we see him. And so you look at the team and they go. Who Else is on your honest? I don't think I'm wrong about this but I might be. The Guy who's sitting on their bench took Atlanta and won a whole lot of games left Atlanta Kavsadze. Did so this guy knows what he's too by the way they could win. Seventy one games are on pace for that right now. I don't think they will not going to get a little twenty and four New Orleans Senate Tony Trevor. Bauer has taken over the position of inescapable athlete of the moment he is back and this time talking about doctoring of the baseball by pitchers being a bigger issue than steroids. Here he is last night on. Hbo Real Sports and needs to be talked about more because it affects every single pitch. And it's the bigger advantage than steroids ever. Were you know how to manipulate it? You can make the ball do drastically different things from pitch at the same velocity and managers yell at the other guy because all their guys who are doing it too on top of this Tony. There's news from the New York Post that MLB is warning teams a no tolerance on doctoring. Rule WILL BE ENFORCED MORE. Strictly this season two doctoring. The baseball is a hundred and forty years old. Now this has become a problem. I'll get bauer down the road stealing signs is one hundred forty years old to you now. This is a problem this is aimed at the Houston. Astros baseball doesn't want a cheating scandal again and it was said of the Houston Astros a couple of years back that they were able to get higher spin rates and therefore control the baseball in ways that no pitching staff had ever done that. It is possible that baseball looks at them and says they're using a foreign substance to be able to do this look. I don't think that this is worse than steroids. I think that's craziness and I can get to that but the Astros have focused. Everybody's attention on cheating and baseball wants to make sure it doesn't happen. This this sort of Suntan lotion thing. Is this bullfrog stuff. It was set number of years that that hitters liked it because pitchers could control the ball. Better lips they wouldn't be randomly hitting now now. What they're saying is as well as that. You WanNa put the ball in play Mike. If if the pitch curves nine feet and you can't hit the balls the Perry brothers. They had stuff a lot worse than Suntan Lotion. Baseball Disney. The they send an empire out there. Every fifty game was twenty minutes. Didn't even matter used. Before that they stopped the spitball to the degree that they stopped it in the twenty s to the degree that they fit ball but they were Tony. Don't you see that this reaction to the Astros okay? That's in large it. That's all it is. I'm sorry I'm not interested. If that's all it is what is going to have to push back on him. No good maybe. I had to push back the trevor. Bauer sees the world through the eyes of the pitcher. What he's failing to seventy percent of pitchers maybe doing. They're not all pitcher for the Astros Tono. They're all. He's saying they're all over baseball. Okay what is the Astros cheating scandal? That focuses on this now the reason. I don't think this is a bigger deal than steroids is. Because at any given point on a baseball diamond the hitters outnumber the pitchers and guys who couldn't hit. Were banging all over the yard but maybe maybe it is. Maybe maybe this is all overstated. Maybe this is all about this better phrase for you out of context. We're trying to condense everything to now with social media and pitchers tweeting and people going crazy and one more time. How many years has all this cheating? Baseball and cheating is like peanut. Butter Jelly. Like I want you to call Henry our and no. I don't WanNA call him because he'll tell you you're wrong. No just tell me five under Tony. Retirement News Maria Sharapova who on five grand slams and might have dominated women's tennis if not for Serena who she had a two and twenty record against she called it quits today sadly the last match of hers most of us are Gonna. Remember was getting it all time. Beat DOWN BY SERENA in the first round of the. Us Open told me she reached number one but she was also suspended for fifteen months she had career than the Belgians. Yeah and she had the same number of slams as Martina Hingis. You Remember Sharapova for his successes or failures so you and I in a previous life for sports columnists and we know how to construct a story like this and we know if we preparing for the eventuality of an OBE it yet. We would take it in an order that makes sense. The beginning of the Maria. Sharapova story is that she was a young fee nom in two thousand and four she won Wimbledon. Which is the most important one and she was seventeen. And she beat Serena only one or two times which you beat Serena then she won the second most important one. Us Open in two thousand six and she was nineteen and she beat on on now. That's not like beating Serena but she was great young and she was. She was endorsed every product. She made more money than anybody. World wise paid female the for eleven consecutive years. I believe what by the fourth paragraph you have to say. She was a drug cheat. She was suspended. She said she had no idea. This substance was illegal. And maybe that's true. They bounced her and when she came back she was nothing. But you know what Tony? The beginning of that story is like a lot of women in women's tennis other than Serena. Because if you look at this look how great. Hingis was early right lookout. Greek Cat Riady was early. Austin was not great was okay but you only have so many all time great. Well Okay but that's Sarah. Pope was that an all time great. She's not she's but she has one thing that only all time. Greats have career grants and uses dotty Billie Jean King Chris Evert Martina Navratilova Serena Williams company and Steffi Graf. No that's is yes. She was great early. Yeah and she couldn't sustain but that seems to be the story of the last half century of women's tennis and they start so early and often burn off of Injuries Sharapova Tony head injuries. I've never seen her in Arizona. What are you doing? She was rehabbing a shoulder. Injury surgery there. She had so many injuries. The detriment is the two ND twenty against. You know I mean because we need the best of the year and wait a minute Federer with with Nidal maybe only on one surface but this is on wall surfaces. Let's take a break coming up. We'll ask Joe Borough whether he really truly is okay playing for you bengals. And WE'LL ASK. Siobhan how he felt about playing against Braun last night. The career Grand Slam the company. Despite I'm not going to the doctor too much but you don't think she's an all time great next level. Pardon the interruption is brought to you by knives out now on. Four K Ultra HD BLU ray and digital sometimes democracy is a birthright. Sometimes it is a gift. It's a fight and I'm asking you to stand and fight with me Michael Bloomberg on bringing our country back together. This election is a referendum on the meaning of America. It is about what we will tell our children what we did at this time. This election is about whether we recognize that all groups who have been marginalized excluded scapegoated or far worse rise and fall together and that is our best hope standing together rejecting demagogues who tried to seduce us by dividing US and uniting behind the only shield that can protect us our common values as American citizens. And as God's children that is what this election is about and that is why. I'm running to repair the damage to move our nation forward together we will get it done boomberg candidate for president and I approve. This message paid for by Mike Bloomberg. Twenty twenty time to spice up our relationship with little role play. Let's get started Mike. Why don't you give to give you are Joe Borough once and for all to your WanNa play for the Bengals Joey so let me answer that question with a question. Do you want to play for the Bengals? You're always saying that the media is inventing stories. Spn told you that you had to do the show in Cincinnati. Would you like that? No it'd be very hard. Grew up in Ohio. You did. It would be very hard for you to get to go through in Ohio. Yeah I yeah. We're I grew. I get that Chile. That is far enough away from Cincinnati. It's the same distance that you are now from Philadelphia. Why don't you live in Philadelphia? I don't why don't you do that? Too many booze you know. I'm Joe Borough. I got nine inch chance and I'm going to boil them up into a fist. I`Ma hit somebody in the face. The next time he tells me where I have to have so title have to work in Cincinnati issue. I don't WanNa Gold Cincinnati Cincinnati. Do you know W K RPG borough you think you know. I think you think well. He's still young. He knows Skyline Chili Chili. Who am I so hard for me to pronounce his name? I'm just GONNA say you're to up to your hip medical. Show your hip fracture healed and there's no loss in blood year. How you feel about this great row here. I'm feeling great. I WANNA go number one. Pick me number one. I love to play fourteen at the great boomer assassin and Kenny Anderson played for quite there who David Klingler Akili Smith. I don't remember that really. It's the dream of every young boy in Hawaii Tony. To grow up and one day live and work in Cincinnati. That's I'm chilly here. I call my hip is healed. Just pick me number one. Don't take a tiny tiny hand. One year wonder did it for three years with big hands in Alabama. Yeah have you broken any bones today? How you doing today sir? Either way you're going to do anything. I'm GonNa give you a little shorter than I thought. Six feet even thought of Leeann Aaron Rodgers. You go tell them. I said haven't Rogers said that they come home. Field is six feet Beta Mayfield. Boy Is he. How's that how's he going? Hbo Again Zion. Good what did you think about going up against Brian last night? Wait wait which one. Which one was he was? He'll kick your butt. Was He the guy with the receding hairline was him or Caruso Right. I get them confused. This guy is so old he soul insecurity. You see how he tried to outscore me. And I see took twenty seven shots for setting nutshell. What Carmelo down from every angle. The old man the suspect to goodness I can always hear them coming because his bones creek l. Lebron is always saying he needs to be surrounded by great talent. What does he do what I do? Play with a bunch of Matz. If he's such a good star and lead them the way I lead my guys. Let me just let me just say this in in partying. Lebron right okay. Boomer you got a few months left. Then you're auditing and then I'm GonNa dunk on your son's head about maybe not even eight three years and this kid in about three years. It won't be three years. Who Am I your coach k? Good you do team lost again. Last night is time to wake forest. What is going on with team that good? You know what I mean angry. I wouldn't I wouldn't bet against us against Virginia on Saturday either. Look College basketball. Change used to have a team like North Carolina. You always knew they were going to be great now. Just look at their coach. These unhinged eight miles down. The road can't even count him not to drop the F. bombs in the microphone. Of course I've done that a time or two as well you think. He's unhinged did you go to the students and yell at any students today because you've got to cheer wrong. Nodding Cheer Own Day Day. Got It wrong. It wasn't the good professional duke. A student at Cameron Indoor. No it wasn't look college basketball is what it is. We're still probably going to be in the final four. I was Binghamton going to be there. No I wouldn't but I wouldn't bet right now in anybody. I don't know anybody that Kinda u-turn you. Tony role plays over was a good for you. Let's take one last break. But Still Ron Rivera. Sending a message to Duane. Haskins that he might not be Washington's quarterback of the future and was the NBA punishment. Joel Middle Finger to hard to off. I always liked role play. I Open hope that people watch it and think that these people are really saying these things that will make them happy store on that but it would make me happy option is brought to you by Mercedes Benz or nothing Walson. We'LL BOUGHT A COUPLE OF PEOPLE. Happy Fifty Second Birthday J T snow. Do this birthday. Not because J t snow is a six time gold glover for because he had over fifteen hundred major league. Why we do this. Because he had the presence of mind in the two thousand and two world series to rescue dusty Baker Son. Darren from what could have been a hideous collision at home plate. Man As you see snow touches home plate and at the same time looped cradles young and carries him to safety ray to bring everyone up to date. Dusty Baker is now managing the Astros and his son. Darren is now a twenty one year old second Baseman at the University of California. Darren Baker that at three forty seven in the Cape Cod league this past summer and some he is major league quality. Aps smiles me over cheeks. Physical harm went out and put his arm around a young woman who stuck singing national that great great moments by both this happy anniversary Pete Weber on this day eight years ago you one year record fifth. Us Bowling Championships. And then defiantly stated quote. I did it. That's right I did it. Who Do you think you are? I am unquote and if there's anyone out there that knows what this means other than Pete Weber. Please call us because we've been waiting eight years doesn't know he was screaming. Like some kind of wild man and wes opened one a bunch of happy trails to the lightning. The kneeing lost of the Maple leafs four to three last night. The game winning goal was sensational watches. Toronto's William Knee Lander puts it to his own legs then flips it into the top corner past Andrei Vasilevskiy because it is hard to blame the goalie on this one and maybe in Toronto this makes up for that Zamboni dramatization from the way you qualified for the US. Open and bowling you did. Why didn't you get did you? Did you qualify jets drop the MIC moment? Oh some weekend bye. Let's go should have done it? Lines he and Bob Quinn says. The team is not trading through staff and period. That makes sense. Everyone should have been out there. You Know You keep Matthew Stafford. God's sign the for a bunch of money Ron Rivera said today Washington will bring Joe Borough and two in for visits that makes those two got the number two pick. They can get one but shot across the ballot. Dwayne Haski. We're GONNA do him. He's told us new. Gm THE NBA suspended. Balik monk of the Hornets indefinitely from violating resented. Drug Program. Your thoughts bad for him but you know. He ended up his to make in terms of this particular news the NBA Joel. Embiid twenty-five granted giving the finger to Kevin heard of. I'm sure you're fine with that. I'm okay with that. The larger embarrassment is what you honest did the other night. He was devastated. Leslie Bradley Beal. Fifty three and fifty five in his most recent two games tonight forty seven and a wizard to win a lot of time the next on by Sony Corn. We're GONNA make eight spot Tony. I'm Mike Robot. Same time to get the. Pti podcast on the APP.

Sharapova Tony baseball Mike Robot Toronto Trevor Bauer Milwaukee NBA Houston Astros Chris Evert Martina Navratilov Joe Borough Maria Sharapova Tony Kornheiser NFL Lakers Hbo Astros America Martina Hingis Tyson
Five-Minute Review on the Audiobook of Philippe Sandss East West Street: on the Origins Of Genocide and Crimes Against Humanity'

Hijacking History

07:16 min | 2 years ago

Five-Minute Review on the Audiobook of Philippe Sandss East West Street: on the Origins Of Genocide and Crimes Against Humanity'

"<hes> today on hijacking history my review of the Audio Book of Felipe Sans Spoke east-west Street on the origins chance of genocide and crimes against humanity after the break one of the things any book and especially an audio book should do is to transport you out of your normal life and into a world that you cannot even begin to imagine if it can do this while up ending all of your expectations of what a history books should be like all the better if I wanted to tell you what Felipe Sanz's book was about based solely on its subtitle you might like a lot of raiders <unk> expect a scholarly history of the law and you would be wrong instead what we get is a life and death odyssey with four of the strangest personalities between two covers of a book the success or failure of these four fragile people Hingis the question of whether the evils of World War Two can be fined codified and forever contained on top of this we get the personal journey of the author himself related to one of these four people and is so much more that he and we never knew about World War Two fittingly to audio narrators take turns telling the story. The personal story is told by sands himself explaining how he and his family fit in the larger story of the two great crimes defined by the war genocide and crimes against humanity city. It turns out that Santa's grandfather Leon lived in the same time and place as the lawyers who I conceive these crimes Hirsch louder packed and Raphael Lampkin they all lived in Limburg Limbourg the German name for a Polish town in the blood lands contested by Hitler and Stalin before and during the war all three men had large families who almost all perished in the war besides louder honor packed in Lumpkin only Leon's wife and daughter sands his mother got out in time. None of the three Hirsch Leon or Raphael knew each other sands today at British barrister of international renown closes the circle by taking us back to the time the place and the characters who set the whole story in motion incredibly there are other plot twists that produce other moments and other characters so unforgettable that this larger story is somehow momentarily forgotten this we get with the subplot of the remarkable edith till Ni of Norwich England from the standpoint of a single life that of sands himself the story reminds us that the existence of each one of us is as improbable as the direction. Each of our lives takes Leon left Vienna for Paris in nineteen thirty eight without his. Wife and daughter since all were Jews it was a lender even leon got out but when his wife read a signal that she wanted to send Toddler Ruth to Paris Leon somehow found a British missionary Miss Tilly not to get her out by pretending that ruth was a gentile then read a herself was able to leave Vienna for Paris in one thousand nine hundred eighty nine in one of the last westbound trains for Jews in that nightmare time time sands relates how he knew nothing about this even though Leon lived into the nineteen nineties his was a house of silence as avail was drawn over the past he recites the same what haunts are not the dead but the gaps left within us by the secrets of others sands. Maybe an international lawyer but he is one remarkable storyteller both in print and invoice his narration is superbly-paced and presented interlaced with his personal odyssey are the stories of louder packed and Lumpkin narrated by the Shakespearean actor David Rynd tool louder pack join the British Legal Team at the Nuremberg trials and was responsible for conceiving the new crime applied to the Nazis crimes against humanity. These are killings of civilians in wartime in which the dead are considered acidity as individuals their deaths no longer to be considered as collateral casualties of war but the responsibility of the nation states behind them also in Nuremberg after a race across Russia Japan. And the Continental United States Raphael Lampkin arrive to join the Americans with his proposal for an alternative crime to apply to the Nazis genocide the crime of plotting to kill all the members I group in the end. The Nazis were indicted for both crimes and the postwar legal environment became the setting for an unending debate over which standards should be applied to the worst crimes imaginable rentals voice provides the gravity and the authority demanded by this story. If God had a voice it would surely sound something like retools sands returns to the story as these events czar related explaining how he discovered the trail leading back from his grandparents to Limburg and from Limburg forward to the judgements at Nuremberg evolving crimes against humanity and genocide he also discovers the story of Edith Tillman the self effacing woman responsible for his mother's rescue and by extension his own existence her odyssey which eventually led to a post-war retirement in obscurity in Miami Florida proved to be as track Lewis as those of the others largely forgotten by history but not forgotten by Philippe Sands who shows us the the people behind the statistics the lives behind the numbers and the reverberations behind the crimes of war and genocide.

Hirsch Leon Philippe Sands Raphael Lampkin retools sands Lumpkin Felipe Sans Felipe Sanz Vienna Limburg Limbourg Paris raiders Hingis Limburg Toddler Ruth Edith Tillman Nazis Continental United States Miami British Legal Team
Zverev-Lendl Split; Peter McNamara Tribute; Listener Questions Answered

The Tennis Podcast

1:13:39 hr | 1 year ago

Zverev-Lendl Split; Peter McNamara Tribute; Listener Questions Answered

"Hi I'm John McEnroe's board. This is Martina Navratilova Mats Wilander. I'm Stan Wawrinka. I'm Lleyton Hewitt. I'm Andy Murray and you're listening to the tennis podcast and we're back well sort of we have many tennis podcast for you right now. Live so to speak Katherine Wichita Myself here Katherine how you doing very well thanks so e right right brought you in association with the Telegraph and we're GONNA have a little catcher about what's been going on because loads has been going on and then we've got the second part of our listener questions special that we told you about last week that we were going to carry on with until the the full-on tennis starts up again we had loads of subjects to get into Wimbledon with Matt and Catherine so that's what would be doing and I also mentioned last week about the passing of Peter McNamara and Catherine I both wanted to speak about assume and share some some personal memories and pay some tribute of our own to him which will do in a few minutes time but Katherine you have been keeping beyond tennis as I have whilst Yuping guns guns. He Looks Nice Yeah. I feel like I could work for the Guernsey Tourist Board. I'm a big Fan. Hashtag Love Guernsey apparently is is hanging out on boats. You've been with dogs. You've been with Dolphins Yeah Yeah Yeah. I'm not sure if I've had a representative experience of Anzio whether I am I am living about his highlife is Ganzi can offer with the well a mutual friend of ours in Guernsey late on a a wonderful wonderful time including a part of about eighty dolphins didn't get the advice and the opportunity to derive a boat not sale about it was it was a rib so not a not not what about the my dad percent across the Pacific but a blooming fund boat rice okay so you did on a boat just not the boat so we don't we don't know whether you might the cut yet yet but I learned how to denotes <hes> and various things with ropes stowing and and toying money lingo five different knots right okay. Well are the thought that that's probably enough to get on the boat right. Okay so those are Castro has been doing. I've been rock climbing today. My kids and I was rubbish at it and everything Kurtz but apart from that we've been watching tennis and lots has happened as I mentioned attend including the split of Alexander Zverev an event lendl which has I mean I guess you could you could say it's been coming in as much as results have been pretty rubbish by his standards and what sunny what we expect acted he's under delivered at all the slam since they got together. He's had some really poll results on the whole I think since since the O. Two when obviously that is the high point and lendl has been notable mainly by his absence points for many of the tournaments Sunday the big tournaments that you would expect him to be at and it just felt he's felt disengaged from it. All it hasn't been working but still I think when we talked about at the start of the year I expensive them to get through to the end of the year <hes> and I thought that they would probably find a way to turn this around but no he I mean the the way it's all gone down with lendl and the sort of the the staggering limp towards the inevitable break up. I rather suspect that there's an awful lot. That's that's going on behind the scenes that we don't know about might never know about we already know there is in general going on behind the scenes with Vera avenues being maybe not in terms of the nitty gritty detail in terms of the big picture stuff. He's being pretty open about. It and I makes me wonder if you know the lendl stuff is caught up in all of that because it it sounds like realistically he's not been having input for meaningful input for a long time I mean he made quarterfinals of the French. Show sustained that result of the year in Lendl wasn't there apparently because of hay fever I mean it was a loft bull laughable situation so I'm sort of I'm relieved for Phys verve. I think it's a shame I think it raises all sorts of questions maps question which he raised at the time if the appointment which was has he hit the lendl button too early. I think not suddenly becomes valid again. You know Wedgie go now now. That lendl hasn't worked. Where'd you go <hes> and yeah I mean the week started? It's in in Hamburg with with quotes coming out from Zverev about him. Being displeased about the amount of time lendl was spending with his dog when he should have been on the practice go so yeah to it's not just writing on the wall I mean writing sort of on the call fits ceiling curtains writing everywhere and talking talking behind each of this back effectively through through the media in various case much as we love it. It's not exactly a recipe for for a harmonious future I feel as though he needs a proper reboot and I think he's is interesting in last week. Show Matt was talking about how Murga Reuther still carries herself as is the player she was a couple years ago when she'd want to Grand Slams and she strides about the quarters if she owns it and which is great on one level to have that sort of presence and I think that is very of city seems to sway between these vast extremes extremes of overly entitled to to have success in and carrying himself like a champion which on the Grand Slam stays you just isn't and then other times looking for lawn and lost and I feel I end up feeling sorry for him and I don't really know what to think about him because I don't naturally warm to him and his game I don't find enormously pleasing to just viewing experience and then there are other times when I really he do warm to him and I see is vulnerability and I'll see him as he did the other day be six to five three down and find something can just engage with the crowd and turn it around and you know it is the something in there that is better than just I sonny what he's been putting out for six months I I hope it ends up being a good feel-good story once he sorts himself out but I think it needs to come from within rather than just this expectation nation that somebody's GonNa come in and push some button but who that's going to be no idea is still bookies fe fourth favorite for the year sapien which is more than it does about Sasha Zverev I also I'm not I'm not sure how closely they're paying attention to be caught on his because that's nonsense. No we're not down that rabbit hole go into January is in Washington about to play mixed with not mixed mixed doubles land. He's GonNa play doubles with his brother Jamie in Washington which I found quite a nice pleasant surprise because I kind of win Wimbledon wondering whether we would actually see him that much summit just I wonder whether we might just sort of taking self awareness and kind of be done with doubles for the time being and clearly not in any said when he announced that he's GonNa play with Jamie Amy that he wants to he's looking forward to it and he wants to get out in the singles called as well and he really wants to build so I'm really quite quite chef to see that he's GonNa play yeah me too. Exactly the same response surprised I I suspect specs and stuff. That's been come out and social media today from Washington. I suspect also has a lot to do with the fact that being on tool being out these events gives him practice partners <hes> in singles he was out there Dennis cussler today I believe in singles on the practice and that's what he needs. He needs it will a he. He needs that much practice if he's ever going to to to make it back in singles and be he needs. It's the data the data of playing top level singles to know if it's achievable to know what will be required if it is to be achievable so I rather suspect as good as the facilities are available to here. Hi It's not available to miss is top fifty to one hundred tennis buys and that's that's what he needs an O._C.. gets to play doubles with his brother. I'm not sure what Neal's Cup skis up to this week. Not sure I haven't seen he's in the door or not angel okay. He's not in that one anyway the the other elements to is I agree with you about the data. I also feel like He. He's got got to just give this one big Joe. I would've thought this is about seeing whether it's doable or not so easy as well throw himself into it and and if it's not going to happen it's not going to happen. You know there's no point in just pacing yourself forever. You've got to build this things so I think he's doing the right thing overall as as much as a wrenches it probably is to go back out on the road again. You know when he's got his family and all the rest of you're going to be in Montreal in a week's. It's time Catherine. You're going to be there for Amazon prime video in the U._k.. Presenting the coverage from there somebody who's not going to be there is no shock rich who's announced that he's joining Federer by skipping that this time round and and actually I think increase increasingly which is seeing this with John where he is he is playing where he needs to play to reach out the batteries and maximize his chances of close in this gap because since Wimbledon is just kept re-occurrence occurred to me what an incredible moment we've just witnessed in the history of tennis that Roger Federer did not take those too much points and finds himself four slams ahead of jackovitch rather than six slams ahead. I mean what an incredible moment he maybe Federal Jacovic hold together during the chill whoever they guy gonNa pay to you know in a confined space podcast let us know where Federal Jock Jackovitch would holiday together the moon really can't I'm going to have to put some thoughts in this will take some time me these one all the masters hasn't he completed the goal the masters last year. He completely proved me wrong Wimbledon. I the fact that he didn't play Queens. Put some doubt in my mind by his prospects a Wimbledon and he's you know plummeted egg firmly on my face say he's that knows what he's doing with Churchill <hes> and I think you know it is tough playing back to back. mazdas is really really tough. Madrid Ramos Tough Cincinnati and <hes> module slash Toronto is tough say I pod break for the tournament I realized that but they've been adult will be you know shopping his teeth somewhere for that one euro as well and and it's it's just such an interesting time for tennis generally who plays where and what the the next generation of players are going to do about this situation of just having seen the gap widen rather Jordan <hes> one of them's GonNa play doubles with Nick Carols in Washington this week Stephanou sits passenger chaos finally getting it together and kind of meeting feels a lot for the first time <music> the famous tweet the famous now deleted tweets from curious make E._S.. Apparently that was the tournament to suggestion that doubles Bona ship the kid brother the further adds weight to the the thesis that doubles is back in fashion. Yes well together somewhere just just imagine imagine if they just showed up and took a while card and play doubles and not sing. It's not going to be very twenty. Nineteen curious played doubles in Atlanta this week. I mean that he did yeah. He is different that much. We do know the couple of one of the story that's taking my just quickly is was tweeted by Goodman Matt Roberts today and Unchecked Echo shares well with his story on the subject which we reference last week from a men's perspective in listening questions subject about why there are no openly gay male players. I'm on the circuit and in stark contrast certainly to the women's circuit and one story that came out today I one one just notable draw was the Alison Vanoy. Thank who is an openly gay female tennis player has has drawn to play against her partner in the first round of a tournament which we were trying to work out Charlie Matt whether whether that has ever knowingly happened before and and I think that came with tower more <hes> is there any time they can remember but certainly a lot more progress. It feels as being made on that side on the w then has been on the yeah I mean I think it's long been a far more accepting adopting place <hes> I'm sure progress has been made but I mean tennis has been right at the forefront in terms of <hes> progressiveness <hes> on the women's side say but yeah I mean this is great on stays in terms of the women's Anaesthesia Sylvester one think what is the first ever w tour event in Latvia of home country today. That's nice isn't it in no no yes and very sadly matt looks like he might get his prediction right in the newsletter because he said Taylor Fritz would win where are they. The moments is Atlanta Georgia Georgia Atlanta and he said he would win there so catherine. I are keeping a close eye on the results of Taylor Fritz Against Annex minore yeah <music> as a as I was by obviously Victoria because over in Palermo who lost someone. I've never heard thanks for that. Victoria Matt angry at you again because I've never vertebrates Goff's just run one around qualifying in Washington yeah so many to become just to say if you WANNA get newsletter mainly list I look at the show notes on your phone or your ipod or your computer. Whatever you're listening to this on right now? Scroll down you can click incentive to are meaningless and you'll get lots of these rubbish predictions every single week and daily slams what more because you want so before we move onto our listener questions oceans special part to this two weeks special mention last week about Nomar who very sadly passed away a week ago been suffering from prostate cancer from for many years and he somebody that I known on the Champion's install cer- certainly since I I joined the tennis world and that's the late nineties and Peter would have been retired from the main tall by them but he was he was irregular on the champions tool and I just found him to be the most welcoming of people and never anything other than just friendly and happy to see you spit straightforward you know there was never any falseness to him at all and just he we'll be so missed by so many people on the tennis circuit and I can't myself among those you joined the circuit later Casteran about ten years later than than I did in that regard you also worked on the champion's tour. How did you find artem exactly the same experience absolutely no side to him? Yeah a man of great warmth extremely welcoming just <hes> all the sort of cliche things you dissociate with with the textbook alsi really just yeah completely down to earth and nine nonsense. I wasn't you know I knew about the the Mac is Mike Tomorrow McNamee but I didn't know that much about his tennis I saw I saw a lot of him. Play you know a lot of people show up <hes> champions two events legends events to see Manzo Bahrami play and maybe a lot of the movie is didn't notice that an awful of the time on the court when months O'Brien he was doing wonderful wonderful crowd-pleasing things at the other end of the court it was Peter McNamara and there was a those reason for that. Bounce abroad army boys wanted to have macaroni the other end of the call he sort of considered them <hes> a team not just pizza tomorrow they're up others as well and of course the more they played with them the more Mo- they go east to set asking him up for his trick shots and all the rest of it but yeah a man with I mean I'm sure I'm sure he did have an ego but it it wasn't it wasn't front and center and actually the friend of staying with <hes> in guns. IPE somebody the even I buy one the champion so she was a a great great friend of <hes> of my cousin shed so many stories about him this weekend and she actually showed me a video that she made four years ago. <hes> for his sixtieth birthday was she got all of all of his friends so other other legendary tennis players you know months obe Rami. <hes> multiple pieces was on the John McEnroe Mitzvah Landau all of them sent in messages for some Ikea to tell them how much they they loved him and appreciate him and <hes> and it was yeah she dug it out for me to have a look at and the you know these were not these platitudes it was it was an incredible incredible depth of feeling there and he was he was diagnosed ten years ago go <hes> nobody knew very very few people knew he wanted it that way not because he was ashamed in any way but because he wanted to keep living and for him that meant keeping working keeping playing <hes> and he didn't want to risk losing any of that by by letting people know and I hope that didn't mean that he ever felt lonely in it <hes> I hope not and I don't think so I think she had just enough important people that need but <hes> you know what she not video. He had an awful lot of people that thought an awful lot of him in it sir. It's a nice thought that he was able to to see that for years ago on his sixtieth birthday so he'll be he'll be hugely missed. He will just on his playing just just quickly. There's a line pat cash cave in A._T._p.. Tour website right piece that Jones paddle roads talking about his tennis and he said that Peter McNamara was a hero of his pat cash. Did he said he ballboy trim and he said he had in his view one of the greatest single-handed backhands he's ever seen thumped it with incredible power took it on the rise great precision and it's one of those things it's not that much footage out there that you can instantly go to but it's well worth gun and looking that up because you know we love great single-handed backhands video montages made about Stanford Ring Karen Roger Federer and people like that that has these sort of back cans and so it's nice to think that Pitas will will be hopefully looked up now by people up yeah yeah just just to final points one memory. That's spunk to my mind. I think he with David it was in the the plays lounge. At the Albert Hall told several years ago it was when I think he was at the time coaching Grigor Dimitrov and <hes> he was just he was talking about Greg or so fondly and he was also talking about Mount Philipoussis who had coached he is earlier in a very similar stage in his career and it just just made me think there's a reason why there's a reason why lakes that chose him to be this sort of guiding hand that stage in in the in the real real father figure and <hes> I'm sure both of them. <hes> a pretty gutted by this news in one one final point that Sarah he was staying with this weekend. She said she said the woman's story he would want told about him. Who is when fee is ago? I'm not sure exactly how many is probably quite a few given how along they've been married but he was in the players land at the Australian Open and he clocked Pat Rafter alongside his his lovely wife Laura Rafter and McCoy mccoo is so distracted by the Laura after he walked clean into the wall and almost knocked himself out ladies and Gentlemen Dude Hugely missed by us all and very fondly so so catherine myself will be about with another addition of the regular tennis podcast next week but we will hand you back in time. I'm a couple of weeks ago to when we were taking our listener questions and from you and we'll we'll leave you with that and in the company Catherine Myself and Matt Roberts so Alex to be continued our second second consecutive listener questions special because we plan to do an entire show full of your questions and answers last week and we got through three questions <hes> so here we are again Catherine which had I Catherine Matt Roberts and I and <hes> Alex Surname US Yep which I think I've said differently also close the nowhere to go sorry Alexey wrong who's the owner of Rio with a y who is our mascot for the twenty nineteen season of the tennis podcast canine a wonderful Canine <hes> and will be <hes>. We'll be kicked kick-starting again crowdfunding again in December and if you want to have your pet become the tennis podcast mascot sculpt twenty twenty. You'll have your chance but let me tell you you better be quick the last one winning about ten minutes last year in the kickstarter so anyway we'll we'll see how that goes anyway. We have Alex as a guest editor of the listener questions special <hes> once a year however as we say we didn't get through all the questions we got through three of them. <hes> seventeen minutes on Gob any mcgrigor I thought was really impressive and so we've got loads more questions to get through today. So Matt Kicks Off so I think next question is with Wimbledon having purchased the golf course across Church road. What would your ideal expansion master-plan looked like? How does how does what does look like in in your minds in a in a few years time when they've got that Land Hertie tell do we need to go detailed as we can do whatever we want Catherine Jimmy town-planner features of you've seen other the slams for aches and Roland Garros into the golf club because that's the one that needs extending a heck of a bigger cross the channel I I mean look I moved slimes creating more space <hes>? I don't like walking around Grand Slams. The full of people it makes me feel really stressed out. People leave the U._S.. Open isn't like that but they actually got more space but I suspect they'll just let more people in tandem with the having more space. I don't well well. I hope I'll be wrong. I hate it will feel I hate it will enable the tournament to breathe a bit more in the way that the slams day my fear is that they'll just that more people in the big news is did they plan to bring qualifying away from Roehampton qualifying. No you love dogs in everybody loves. It goes but that's not many people didn't like it but it doesn't make it is it is one of the great sites in tennis the Hunting qualifying where you stand if you stand the back of the just the back of the courts and as literally tennis as far as the I can see is ten courts tennis going on a real real atmosphere and vibe to it and the fact that it's not at the site of the Grand Slam the rain to qualifying aiming qualified four makes it the divorce of it. It was exaggerated. You have to win here to get kind of promise. Land it is a throwback is what tennis used to be but it's time to change that I think inc I mentioned that they let dogs in. Maybe the let dogs in to this Niara. I'm sold really all I want security dogs so why wouldn't they must say having been to the French Open arriving. Eh a few days before the tournament started. I did see the value in having the qualifying onsite at the venue because I was watching a you know a qualifying match on one of the large outside because and you had probably two thousand people watching this qualifying match it did sort of bright you into the tournament and it's Okay Ronald guys starting. Now people are coming to the venue. They're already interested in random John Carroll even though the manger hasn't started it added to the experience people in for free. I don't know about the great thing. If it's free great the qualifying events slams are fantastic they they are if you ever get to go to them do it because it's a tonal within itself and the this means the world today's players if they managed to get into the main draw the huge amount of prize money if if they get into the main points and they have to win three matches. It's it's a real journey. All of its own <hes> and the tennis is incredible. You can get closer up a lot of the time they're starting to stream. All these courts aren't <music> as well now on T._v.. I I think that they need to make more of these qualifying. I mean the the the thing that I'm defining features sports that I love is when it matters more matters the more I'm interested in it doesn't really matter what the sport is and qualifying winds matter to those people in them almost as much launch if not as much as Grand Slam wins matter to those that are winning Grand Slams. It's not for everyone in some some qualifying matches will feature. There's any the full gamut of competitors in them but for some of them it is life and they're trying to to earn enough to sustain them for another year on tool for some of them are if I don't qualify for this Grand Slam I will have to give up being a professional tennis. Pay It is it's it's life and death. It's everything and that's that's what I was gonNA. Say that the the story of Wimbledon Week one this year was born out of qualifying cocoa golf. I mean she came through qualifying. It was cool for us and how cool must've been if you were there on day one of qualifying to see coca coca cough start that journey and what she would then go onto. Do you know what a great story that is to say. Oh I saw her qualified one of these irritating early adopters gang why so qualifying thing uh-huh Pagan and fascinating that was just generic generic generic irritant okay. Can I the the other things it says of what we'd like to do with the expansion I would light to see. I think it's a fantastic opportunity for Wimbledon to fill in all the gaps account there in terms of helping create the next generation of of people that are interested in the sport ought to really get kids involved to do a kid's Day <hes> to that they did the middle Sunday tennis opened up alongside the this year which was which was nice to see a proper partnership there and and some some real Ford planning to try to create more interested in the sport. I just feel that this is an opportunity I don't. I don't know whether they'll do that but it does seem like an opportunity Michael. Danny told Anees not the chief executive anymore in this very well may have changed and and maybe a view on this is something we should receive. I remember Michael Down telling us that that it I think I asked him back. Danny said it wasn't commensurate with the with the Brand Wimbledon. That made me really sad because Z. Any slam that's another kid stay and it's it's a desperate shame is as much as I hate being at them. I see I see the kids stays other grand slams and they are so powerful seeing these are moving closer positive when I see that middle Sunday event that they had I think that there is it feels to me anyway <hes> the certainly oversee huge determination from an l._T._a.. British tennis perspective to try to to move that direction but Wimbledon oversee has its own it to use that word brand but when they've got that much more space <hes> I I would be really disappointed as well if that wasn't used infected as a way to to to create more interest for young people who may be can't afford to get tickets to this place. I think it will be interesting how they use that space and make it still feel connected to the current site we have. I think it's going to take some interesting architectural into planning to make it feel like part of the same tournament because it is quite a way across the road. It's and I think even the new Simone Mature Court Roland Garros which bowl accounts was a big success in a nice core but it felt like a different tournament when you're over there because it was kind of cut off from the rest faraway was far away and you know the good point about it is it was his crowded over there. It was it was it was a haven almost but it did feel like a different tournament and they're going to have to use the space. Creatively I think to make it still feel like the same tournament architecturally I have one hundred percent confidence in Wimbledon to achieve everything they need to because the architectural changes that have been made this place is just been sublime one hundred percent success zest coats everything architecture modernizing without you really notice yeah yeah still has the same feel about Wimbledon yet. If you actually went back and looked at the old facilities they would be nice day so I agree we Catherine Turtle there <hes> but you know we'll we'll wait and see exactly what what they prioritize because they will be. There will be a need for them to create more hospitality. I'm sure they'll be all sorts of things like that but doc I read that they would take this opportunity and Roman. That's more more inclusive place you know. Tennis still has a problem with being sieff up lit bing bing ebbing middle of middleclass sport in this country knife used the space to I'm sure you can't solve all the problems with you know buying a bit of extra golf course space base but the goal make make goal of all of it <hes> to make it just completely achievable anybody that wants to come to Wimbledon to be able to come to Wimbledon because it's wonderful and it shouldn't be something that's just open to the elite or people that are able to sack off their heirs level through. We can come in key which is why did you know it. That's there are <hes> joyful things about all of that but it's not inclusive and I won't tennis to be inclusive. Yeah I mean anything I would size still one hundred percent agree with you about the cue because you can Q.. If you WANNA come you can kick circumstance difficult for people if you'll circumstances allow it okay. We've we've had this arguments so we went wasting twenty minutes of another podcast where it so that's one question done twelve minutes. Carl Alex is now chosen a few questions from social media this one from David Blanchard who prefaces it with potentially contentious one. David's has Venus Miss Williams underachieved in her career. He says no French opens one thing considering her style of play but competitor Winwood an U._S.. Open achievements her ozzy open is her ozzy open record is a bit. The average isn't even occurred to me that Venus Williams might be in underachiever and that's that's fine. <hes> you have to her longevity firsthand I mean she played her first professional mansion. I think nineteen ninety four when she was fourteen right it's twenty five years ago <hes> yeah I mean I think gives a single single and the first time I really became aware I mean I'd read reports about her in the mid nineties when Matt Stores Born <hes> but I saw her play her first do you s open. I think it was a I use open and she reached the final it I use open is amazing is amazing to witness it and the reaction of America and <hes> and I think she lost to Martina Hingis in the final. I think you have to bear very mind that she was sharing an era the start there with Martina Hingis and some really a very young up and coming Martina Hingis and Monica Sash and and <hes> applies Jennifer Capriati and there's there's some really really good players and then came classes and just in an on came along and there was a depth and then obviously has sister came along tape so there was so many great really really high quality players that that's one and <hes>. She won five Wimbledon's and she wouldn't. There's a long time ago. She hasn't won Wimbledon for ten years so five Wimbledon's in that I basically eight years of her career or say <hes> <hes> she won a couple of years opens and <hes> and that's good those Lindsay Davenport is one in that era as well. I do think that it's an underachievement for not to have an Australian Open. I think that that was perfectly setup. It's up for her. She did lose in the final a sister so again you run in India sister and then let's not forget. She's had some real. Ill Health in the last decade. The Autumn Immune disease that she suffered from other things insightful. I think I would've thought she would have one more. If you had asked me at the answer career probably would have expected to win. Double Figures Slams <hes> but then I didn't think assistant would win twenty three of them so she's taken a lot of the slams that big sister I think would have won. Yes I agree with that and I just wonder whether I think hunger to be out there and compete and just be on a tennis court is without question but I wonder if hunger to be at the very top and don dominate it has been tempted by the fact that to do that would be for for large chunk career been displacing. Her sister not consciously necessarily subcontracted especially because she's the oldest matches I mean I I I still I feel a bit sick. When I think about the accusations that used to get thrown around when they first played each at are are they people saw that just deciding who wins this week you win next week? I really always hated that at the time and I still hate heighten now but I do feel that probably Venus Williams and I don't know but my my sense is that she would has struggled with the the ruthlessness to beat her sister. The the whole system managed to find the other way and that doesn't mean she loves her anymore. Any less I mean I think that's maybe a positive a hype. Math isn't listening but maybe the difference between being an older sibling a young guy youngest sibling. I think that is significant. There will be exceptions. I'm sure there are people out listen to this will I. It's not just the youngest sibling new use to chasing an aspiring and wanting and to be an older sibling my sense is that your more used to putting an arm round and nurturing and looking after even older sibling or younger sibling Matt. I'm the youngest sibling sibling number youngest rule saying who chases I I think the the Venus statistic always jumps out of me is that she only had eleven some weeks is number one but when you dig into that the ranking system was different than and I think she finished number three in two thousand and two thousand one despite spite having won Wimbledon in the U._S.. Open both those years and I think I think the ranking system than sort of rewarded much more quantity of events over the quality of the events that you one and she was up against players like as you were saying David is always place she had Hingis here. We're just playing more than her and so maybe she never got the weeks number one she deserved merited and even though the players Sojo's host dominant player I mean worth I'm what wrote that book in the Venus Envy it was she was the dominant player at the time and you know I I missed her peak Israeli but everyone that I speak to now who who watched in the early two thousand late nineties. We'll say Phoenix was unbelievable. I put out I put up on Wimbledon during Wimbledon on twitter I said who are the best movers WTI history. Everyone came back to Venus Williams at our peak was the best movie she could cover. The core in Tucson did say peak Heather Watson rich thing was a joke but she's a good. They're all levels. It was vintage. Sorry vintage unspecified what vintage that was so I I feel too difficult to comment on Venus having not seen her in absolute peak but I do get the sentence it's that maybe she could have one more in those early years but as you said that was so many other piles of that time as well they were taking off each other yeah we we often talk about the depths now and the ability of plans to win at slams arms but back then if felt that the you basically got six to eight multiple Grand Slam champions and they were all playing pretty much the same time and <hes> yeah it was the only one who was able to <hes> stick out head and shoulders. Everybody else was Serena Williams but she actually got better as she went along whereas I think Venus had her period and then it it tiled off through reason or another and obviously then she had the oh hells so did she underachieve. I find it really hard to put it in a in a little box like that. I feel that there was a period of her career but she maybe underachieved a bit at the Australian Australian Open but I think overall I think given the the Shogren Syndrome which is a really massive thing a really really massive thing similar to Lupus <hes> and because it's a it's a condition condition which manifests itself in flare-ups. We don't know when to attribute something to the condition when to not we don't want to her a disservice by saying oh it's it's it's very tricky one for us to say but for us to to bring up but the condition that she suffers from because it might be that she was feeling fine that day and she just lost because nothing to do that but overall the in the context the last ten years I think she's overachieved so maybe unbalanced silence. She's just achieved and if you're looking at if you're counting in terms of Grand Slams over the last twenty years who is one more grand slams Venus Williams Serena I mean yeah she's one. That's a very good point. She one more than Sharapova. She's got more than maybe the same as an-and. I think maybe that both got seven <hes> but you know it's it's Serena who's got more and to say that she's hundred chief when she's got the Sakamoto. Grand Slams in the last twenty years doesn't doesn't feel right. I I also do feel that whenever you look a career you you do need to bear in mind what they do in these years where she really doesn't need to replace sports when she's she's playing several years here late thirties and chances are she isn't GonNa win another slam but she still goes community Donald woman she lost against cocoa Gulf <hes> stranded she was writing tweet saying I got an Cima Pants. I'm so excited about playing mumbling again at the age of thirty nine and I don't know I like I saw I remember the first U._S.. Open she played in Nineteen Nineteen ninety-seven twenty two years ago and she was if somebody had tells you in those first five years of her career that she still be playing nearly forty when people really did unafraid Snia because she had outside interests because she had around clothing company because her and a sister had are the business interesting really winds me up. Nobody ever does that about other players. They always say about Serena Venus Williams. Oh well I got so many other interests but they say as a negative and it's not a negative. It's a poll shows how impressive they are that they can multitask. They've got more than just tennis and yet they are out. Stay everyone in tennis perhaps because of those outside interests as much as you know in spite of them because of the nets feel there's a lot of people out there and I probably include myself in his Co.. Those to an apology for back then because because I'm quite sure that would have come out of my mouth fifteen years ago when talking about maybe how sparingly they're playing and I I cringe it outsold now and what you're saying Catherine between about if there was a small pairs of underachievement. That's not forget two years ago. I can't think of a season from player in my tennis watching time the player who's almost over chief so much Venus reaching Australia confined or the Wimbledon final the U._S. Open semi fan or the W._n._B._A.. Finals final. I think thirty seven years old gender Gruden Syndrome. It was an extraordinary season. I I don't think we give that season enough credit because because it didn't end in a victory anywhere but it was a hell of Redo here on the tennis podcast we just based on it so so next <hes> comes from grunt who says weeks player has surprised you most in two thousand nineteen in good or bad ways. It's been a little advice. Do you WanNa take the positives David reverts to the mean. I feel like I I mean. I'll give you a little selection people because I've done yeah no pre-planning here too but I'll give you a few people that string spring immediately to mind I I've been very pleasantly surprised to some degree by Stephanus pass not he's shown a level that shine but he beat Roger Federer Australian Open and then he backed it up and he can't come producing okay hit a bit of a wall <hes> from the French Open onwards where where we're talking to you now around the grass season but I think that that that was great to see somebody just burst out of the pack of of the next Gen actually do something meaningful and a few times. I think Felix Oceanic seem has been a real find in that in that regarded as well. These are just plays. I think there are just ahead of the shed your little as to where I thought they would be is a massive disappointment massive disappointment <hes> Dennis chiappa valve yeah he he is disappointing Governor Margarita who we talked about in the last show should not be in the twenties in the World Irena Salamanca. Oh that's a good one really disappointing and I moved worries me about <hes> who is I'm not I mean this is fully into the trap of reading too much into people say should media which only tells a fraction of the story but if you just go by her social media and she isn't really facing up to put a catastrophe this season has been really I mean has has and I was aware I was prepared for a bit of a letdown off to the end of that season. I think we talked it in some podcasts at the end and if the season about how frustration must must be plays that have brilliant end-of-season and then have to have to take a break from and they must just want to keep ongoing Zverev would see me with absolutely absolutely <unk> Bank as much as I'm sure he enjoys his holiday in the Maldives it probably would have been best to him for him to to press on from the do that. Well the end of the year and then do not I would have expected so blankets to turn the ship around a little bit. I mean it feels like the ship is just waited down here at the moment. It's getting yeah. It's getting worse. Not Better Horsa also questioning it surprised us in good or bad ways this okay so yeah I think Sabah Lenka final. I mean obviously Coca Goff is a is a great find but actually the I suppose the play surprise me by just because I had chance to see this level was being current rescue <hes> and it also surprises me that we sitting here Wimbledon record in this having having seen her breakthrough three or four months ago and nothing's happened to sense because of that awful shoulder injury that she's got. I the thought that somebody that age is an injury like that and we don't know how and when she's he's coming back that really really upsets Marigny Yeah and if if we're on injury we should probably mentioned the potter yeah. I actually say without now that upset. That's very sad. It's it's. It's not that much of a surprise because his body can go at anytime. It's more of a surprise Andy Murray's back. Isn't it in a positive sense. Yeah yeah come on. We we'd Australia podcast after after his first round or say when I was trying to say but I you know I think he can get through the Wimbledon but you did you said here but look. We're talking talking about his retirement regard. Nothing's changed just because he's going to try to get through to the to Wimbledon. He's retiring and we all felt the same about that. We all thought this is over and today as either limp through into Wimbledon or I have this surgery. It's it's retirement and I think that's how he needed to sit at the time right because that's what he said. Subsequently I chose the surgeon for the hip resurfacing surgery on the basis of who is most honest with man. I asked him before Queens. I said you know you said this about how you raise your surgeon does that mean you had to come to terms with the worst case scenario and he said the worst case scenario for me was <hes> but I was living in. I was living the worst case scenario E. S. he expected not to play again fisher. He expected not to play again. He saw taking that route as retiring and everything being bonus and I'm sure that's an element that is mental mind games because you have to be okay with the worst case scenario and if he'd gone into that thinking Oh but maybe maybe maybe can come back. Snow Snow right frame of mind is a is not an can see that from how how just briefly is just being pain-free because that's all ever wanted to the stage where that's all he needed to to get rid of the pain chat with Brian. Everything's fine sorry about what about you. I've three players when we've already mentioned Zverev. I really thought something has changed the last year I think I think we said on the podcasts at the Oh to last year it felt different from because he'd beaten Federer Djokovic back to back to do that felt so significant that that's what we've been crying out for this whole time is one of those next-gen to displace the car in big three and he did not here to with really stunning tennis. He was exceptional in both those matches. Where has that been obviously has had this whole management crisis? What do you think about the fights that he is? He's. Lastly he started being quite honest with us about stuff. That's going on he talks about I mean he's too I think in <hes> in a couple of his German press conferences this at Wimbledon whizzing incredibly a honest about the situation it's going on with his former former manager petitio pay in and all the all the consequences of that. He said he's having to actors as a lawyer you know he talks about his his irritation Publi an understatement. You know Washington not wanting to pay his appearance fair anymore all of that stuff. He said his dad's had ill-health. He said he's broken up with his girlfriend. Etc such a house pathetic with you. How sympathetic with him are you about that D- thing bull thoughts life? Thank you know federal in adult Murray they they will repairs on three that and we haven't seen reflected on the court as much to be happy with you on a I feel a bit sorry firm because whenever I do feel I is very is not somebody over the years that I've really want to on the court and I haven't got hugely excited about him to be honest and I you know I love it when you come along and we can just talk about potential etc.. Maybe there's a bit of me that just heard so many people banging on about how he's going to be the next number one of the world that I've sort of maybe railed against install. I one hundred percent sure but I haven't he hasn't kind of enchanted me in the way that he plays the game. Either I find it feddie run in the middle of time and then you see you'll see the occasional shots with the particularly with the back you go wow that's amazing and also quite like it when he gets to the crowd evolve but I feel that there's almost been a little bit of presumption from him and everybody else that it will just happen almost sort of an entitlement settlement that I haven't always liked but then you see I quite like his bluntness in press conferences. I enjoy that but I also see the real. What I suspect is is the real human behind him when when he sat and kind of shoe he doesn't sugarcoat is the kid yeah and he just I do see him interviewed? Sometimes give speed on the court and I kinda wanted to put my arm random ben to say it's alright. You'll get there you be right and I yeah I believe that so where it comes. You'll get Nubia right <hes>. I'm not sure no. I'm not sure and as because the agent didn't thing yes it look your own full. Really you know you signed up to this so I don't know I don't know that she did we talk about I mean I believe it's all has been in a similar situation not quite as dramatic but she's concede by a a former chairman. She was a very young junior because we're talking about deals that had done when these people are still early on and we haven't seen the paper works. We don't know what was agreed and when by I who etc we don't know all those things but look the fact is if what I'm saying if you have a contract you have a contract and so there's a degree to which you've just got to deal with it or get out of it and pay whatever it is. I don't know all the details so so a bit of me thinks well that's that's black on black and white one way or another but yes on a human level. I do feel sorry for him. <hes> and I do hope that it works APP because I'd like to see the best of him. Whatever that Tis just just picking up on that point that you mentioned about kind of entitlement and that kind of thing that will happen eventually I I read in quite an interesting column from Tony Dahl during Wimbledon Jordan in which he was saying that he thinks the very existence of the next Gen is a concept is actually negative for them because the Dow is that as a response to the next gen the person who never looks beyond on the next point and he was saying that but by bracketing them all this next Gen that in itself was suggesting that they are the next big thing that they all good and that they also necessary for the sport aw and he thinks that has held them back in a way and particularly something he was saying was that he thinks that they don't do with advisory as well as the Dow Federal Back Generation Do and that would play into this how much this management situation has affected him? He's he's not able to deal with negative situations as well as the old apply. I suppose if you do look up and every five seconds you've gotten advertising campaign saying you're the next year and you are the X._p.. Thing effectively it will happen. It's pretty hard to understand the actually nano in order for it to happen. I have to do this this this this every single day of my life and I think the we are all guilty here on the tennis podcast of this sometimes times in <hes> under appreciating just what goes in to these plants producing the performances that they produce we will sometimes quite in a blase manner say oh well. He's not going to base him because that guy always is great player always wins. It's there's so much to the process every single day for these these guys federal doesn't just turn up and just switched the ball about I'd love to see not more of it they because the the here so many bleak references to too hard work and I accept that on a on a conceptual level I know conceptually hard boat in that you actually see it and taste. There could do a better job of communicating that doesn't really want people to know to too many details I think and he he released that loop. We practice video didn't he was coming back. That's kind of glued fascinating later yeah. It was a live periscope. Yeah I think he was in Dubai. It was the end of the twenty sixteen season and okay. We'll talk about that hard work but the main thing that came across his funny was having just hitting tennis balls he was. He's always been letting out on the practice court since he was a kid. I've been around that including playing with him. What's <hes> didn't go very expensive? Yeah McGrath might be listening governor McGrath. If you want to catch honestly it was all federal I mean this was before. Federal is winning slams. He was still nineteen it all he could do. He was stifling laughter fe basically throughout. I've been there orch. Can I just say to other pilots surprise in a negative way Angelique Kerber I think in all star the predictions I think I had hers finishing possibly number one. I thought she was going to have a really good season because she looked so good and so fit and so strong start the season in the Hoffman Cup which I know maybe lesson note to self don't draw conclusions Asians from the Hopman Cup. There is no hot McCartney moral so I wouldn't be doing that but the mixed doubles final twits them versus Germany and that cub was still one of the best matches I've seen the season cover was going toe to toe the federal and I just thought she looked so good and so prime to have a good season and yet she's had these slam results. She keeps getting completely blown away. Collins remember it keeps it was potter pover in Roland Garros and she keeps getting blown off the call and I didn't expect that but in a good way Ashkenazi I mean I know David predicted to win a slam but that was a which is like she made such significant progress listen to this even for that anything she made sexy -nificant progress through the first three months of this year that she put herself in a position where that was opposable prediction and she's backed it up and implausible and Ashburn is number one. I mean we wouldn't have thought that actually know probably the biggest surprise isn't it. Let's be honest waste because that has come out of more or less nowhere. I only thought she was going to win a Grand Slam when I saw I think maybe the clay actually was coming out of Miami on the clay and I just felt like all the components now in place and she'd had a couple. She had a cop hasn't she was she just sort of propelled Australia through and shown that grits and determination. That's that's what I was thought was missing. Mash policy got kind of match toughness in a way she's always had the nice game but now she's able to back it up with a winning formula as well time for one more question okay. They fly wipe high okay so let's go with this one tab Pharma which I think I'm guessing they use the name was on instagram and wants to know have David and Catherine ever had has a proper falling out when we meet twelve years ago t dozen and seven twelve thousand seven. I'd braces Yup Correct Brown around here is the days we've we've had some absolutely fantastic rows <hes> about well. All men are things we have argued a lot on and off his not been a I mean in many ways brilliant invention produce quite sensational periods of silence on WHATSAPP which will which are probably the the climax of a row when we've definitely gone a good twenty four thirty six house when nobody has replied and <hes> and then it certainly feels to me like it's a kind of staring outcome test I to see who's GonNa look away I and give in it definitely helps now that we have agreed what's up that might as moderator is part of what you think fantastically good at silence taste danger one that was one I mean it was I remember the subject was just remember. One thing fled up really flat. They had been a perfectly nice kind of jovial part of the conversation. Just suddenly disappeared and these messages were flying backwards and forwards would with just great ferocity acidity and neither one of us was <hes> prepared to give way. I guess was just a few yeah. I just see I got from seat I and then and then what happens in the water now which never used to happen at some point we get so exasperated with one another will say not what do you full to give an opinion on something knowing and one of the incredibly upset about whatever I say non-commission splendid job of just kind of slightly calming Yeah we've we've had some some big debates had any massive fallen out well what you said that an argument was the genesis of the podcast. That's true yes in two thousand eight hundred eighty eight more years four years for it to become the podcast from this moment but <hes> I mean you know Catherine was my intern at back then in the second year of <hes> career and she was still at university and <hes> uh we were in the in the Queen's Bah Group of US talking about I don't even know what Roger Federer came up and Casteran said something about Federer being I think unrelatable and being too perfect and having no I sort of almost as I you saying that he wasn't he didn't have a human side too well like what my brother reminded me of on the anniversary of Federal Roddick the other day he just doesn't I need it yes so we used to feel about this two thousand eight when he was pretty much dominant best admittedly had just had that friendship final but that that's what Catherine was getting and I I of course it seen <hes> a couple of years earlier federal sobbing on the shoulder of Rod Leiva which I found one of the most moving images in tennis that I'd ever seen <hes> an equally and I know this sounds terrible because sites name-dropping embiid it's well. I know him I I hate that stuff but the fact is a Dignam or had had an experience with him in his early career and a new what I was talking about and she wouldn't have it so I was GonNa make sure she did have the full details which she didn't know one hundred percent date has about I'd had a couple of drinks and so I made sure she she she was told <hes> but afterwards wits as as sure she told breeze sounds terrible had the pleasure of getting to know Roger. I didn't but it didn't stop you telling me exactly what was what time so I <hes> I decided to <hes> give you the facts <hes> or at least my experience of the person that I knew and <hes> I still stumped up this days a year later after to that and since then I'd yeah I did re thing actually as angry as tiny realized how angry you were no that that's probably what is the most angry at you have been with you right for now. Five hundred six episodes years later goodness I mean I'm I'm still cringing aging and now when I now I watched that in obviously in hindsight it's a wonderful thing in context is everything nuances everything but when I now cheap tips if the crying on Rod Laver shoulder thing obviously I tear up within a split seconds in Mombasa nips going in I call make it through any of it and yeah there was one in me up his because there was publicly available evidence and you you wouldn't accept it so I was just aw going on about it until you did and eventually I want so <hes> yeah and then feel tension sometimes sometimes times now. I get rid not not David tool but I just like I unleash my rage. Something external on the what's out group and I know what's happened is that David is texted Matt separately as they don't respond to my it's Moss to aflame so you just simmer for awhile. I know what happens system to write off. I thought I made a really good point that I thought this would stay up some really great conversation written. I feel a lot more time we done in or she's so yeah we we well. How many episodes we don't five hundred sixty so I guess we got right yeah so anyway? Wrap it up. <hes> we will bring a conclusion to the five hundred sixty sixth episode of tennis podcast or whatever it is and the tennis podcast in general <hes> come to class eight years of production cuts an I always just getting stealthy adult until two people we want to now. We got along famously as his map with us and thank you for your questions. Thank you for listening. Thank you few support to who are kickstarter <hes> in December that has enabled us to produce as many shows as we have over the course of twenty nine thousand nine hundred eight. We have not finished yet folks. We will be weekly throughout the year up until the U._S.. Open then we'll be daily throughout out the U._S.. Open of course and we've got some other plans as well for the autumn when we really want to keep pushing as much as we kinda produced as many shows as we can and then in December we'll be crowdfunding for twenty twenty once again. We have a little list that you can join up to if you want to have a reminder on December the first when we are running kickstarts crowd fund twenty twenty so it's in the show next to the show so just a scroll down and he can press on that if you WANNA get it ought to be a singly humongous bound blows.

tennis Wimbledon Grand Slams Roger Federer Catherine Venus Williams David Blanchard Andy Murray Washington Charlie Matt John McEnroe Peter McNamara Australian Open Matt Roberts Martina Hingis Stan Wawrinka Lleyton Hewitt matt Lendl
Roland Garros Re-Lived 2001: Jennifer Capriati  the crowning, and the cautionary tale

The Tennis Podcast

43:01 min | 9 months ago

Roland Garros Re-Lived 2001: Jennifer Capriati the crowning, and the cautionary tale

"Hi this is Marion Bartoli Mats Wilander. This is Mary. Carillo I'm stunned rowing I'm letting you it, I'm Andy Murray. This is Yannick, Noah and you're listening to tennis podcast. Marvelous can looking back on nine, thousand, nine, hundred nine. We already for a new millennium here on the tennis. PODCAST is part of Roland Garros re live. We're going back to two thousand and one Katherine. How was your two thousand warm? Well if the parents photo album is anything skype by Nassir vintage. Year, or I'm not sure fourteen fifteen is ever greater age for girls are also. I think the best veto I can find that that period is for my. That was probably the peak of my ice skating days. That was probably. The Ice Rink Chris probably whereas least awkward in Life Circa two thousand and one. I I was. An epic year for coming fourth in ice skating competitions as I recall. That was my specialty. Mass. Meanwhile was utterly adore. Five. Yeah, living my best life eight. Five. Splendid, Land Yeah he was. We've got the photos to prove it. We'll see if we can persuade somebody to let his post one of them. But we've seen them. Great. So yeah, we're going back in time to two thousand and want to remember the run Garros final between Kim Clijsters and Jennifer Capriati not. The year in general well obviously is remembered as a whole for nine eleven more than just about any other news story that year. Lots of other things happen that year as well. I tunes was released. wikipedia went online and the ipod started being produced. Is You. Have your first ipod in two thousand one catherine. Still on Sony. Whatever it was. You don't even know. I Citing Walkman is. That was the most partridge list of. World Events Yes. Look happens. I mean I can only go. Make it out just getting me. Who invented the skip in a minute? Do. Not. Reference I tell you know at some stage of my life. I had a Sony. Walkman undeniable pods. And the mini disc player in in between. Okay. Thanks for the information. I'll go and look up the skip info later. Folks and let you know tomorrow. So. Also back in two thousand and one Kim Clijsters had turned eighteen the day before what would be her first Grand Slam Final Jennifer? Capi was twenty-five. She'd won the Australian Open a few months earlier, her first Grand Slam title, and she was going for the second leg of the Grand Slam. But really the only tells the Mirror Smidgen of her story and it is that story we are going to tell here on the tennis podcast. Because it is just. Like. Something out of a movie caught on a say Catherine. In I think we all knew this story. Vaguely we new details. We knew how she'd had the early promise, and the difficult is in her life in one again in an ended up in this final in two thousand one but I think looking into it. More deeply has has been a real eye opener for us. I mean. What what a life she has had for somebody who, at that stage was still only twenty five. Yeah, an in the final that that we just watch much of the two thousand one friendship, and was playing the the young talent. You know she the she'd already passed the bats on on to a to a new generation close as it just turned eighteen the day before. I think yet. She kind of been absent for the for the battle and passing and she she'd been. Away from the sport, battling injury and demons and everything, it's possible to battle really in and that she still managed to come back and make herself relevant. Is Incredibly, incredibly impressive. It's it's a shame that the story doesn't end Eddie that. It's not a a Roy's fall and rise again. It's not that simple unfortunately, but at the time we were watching in two thousand and one. That was the story rise in. And Reemergence? Because if you go back eleven years in time when she was just thirteen years of age. She played a tournaments heff. I tournaments on the. Pro Tour in Florida age thirteen meeting Netflix toes. You six, four, six, two, who had been the French Open semi-finalist year towns yet. She also Helena Sukova. Six, one, six, four, who is another player, had being in the world's top five. She was on the cover of sports illustrated. The thirteen was capi with the caption the headline and she's only thirteen because of that triumph for that. She'd had on a way to to that to that final in Florida. And her first coach was Tom. Gullikson who is a great doubles player in his own riot? He's Cutch many many plaza before. He got introduced to copy at a very young age. And this is what he found I've never ever seen. A young young girl hit the ball cleaner or have kind of more. Kind of positive energy on tennis court than Jennifer I remember. Before. I started working with her. One of the coaches said Hey, gully, which you hit a few balls with this young twelve year old girl. and. Tell me what you think and I said sure. And so this little Q.! Twelve year old. Full of energy girl jumps on the court. We start hitting in a hit with their for like a half an hour and she didn't miss a ball and she hit every ball right in the center racket. She had this beautiful kind of clean techniques in the ball was coming off a racket like. The sound of her ball I. Remember for a twelve year old was phenomenal. I mean the power the timing. and. And hurt I talked to the coach afterward, I said. Wow, this girl, really special. Good luck with her and then Lo and behold in a two to three years two years later I think fourteen. you know the I was working for the USDA. Coach and they They gave half of my ear to the CAP. So I? You know through the USDA. I work with Jennifer like twenty six weeks a year for a couple of years and. In. The the I mean the first year was phenomenal and. All the excitement around her and She was the girl. And in in women's tennis, and then in the following year. Actually, won like three WTA titles Allston than she locked to beat Martina at Wimbledon. who was a seven or eight time champion? In, the quarters lost to Sabatini in the summer ice, and then she beat Sabatini at the US Open in a night match in the quarters, and then lost Monica Seles seven six in the third. After serving for the match at five, four and six, five and the third. In in I think. One of the best matches in the history of women's tennis for sure. I mean sell us was at the top of her game and the ball striking and taking the ball early and Jennifer was at the top of her game and an emerging star and I mean the tennis. If you go back and watch some clips of that match, the tennis was phenomenal. And you know. Jennifer was very lucky not to win that match, but Yeah, it was. You know she was a great girl and and You know it's just a lot of fun working with her. She was so talented. I mean I could. Like it kind of teacher something you know working on tactic or something like it can the second serve and hitting it and coming in. And she could do it almost right away and there was very little kind of learning curve or leg tie between understanding how doing something, and then the actual doing it. You know that's kind of the learning curve all that time in between the understanding and the being able to do. In Jennifer learning curve was very very short. Meanwhile, Lindsay Davenport was one of her contemporaries. I played exactly one junior tournament with her and That was I think we were both nine I believe it was the twelve and under indoors and no shock. She went on to win it. I think I lost in the semis. Was it I mean she was on a path that just seemed outrageous. Even back then so was clear have good. She was, and she was making waves with everybody Mary Carillo good friend here on the tennis podcast remembers covering her in a very early French Open. We did a feature at the French. Open Jennifer's I. French Open. And we took around on a bus in just wanted to see what it was like for this kid to see Paris for the first time. And we were. There is a a really goofy movie back in the nineties or whatever whenever this kid watched it. A time travelers is goofy. Forget the name of the movie. It was really stupid, but they kept visiting. People like you know kings and Queens and presidents, and and we pass by. Napoleon's something with and I said Oh this is famous. This I'm the tour guide on his bus, which is ridiculous, but that's that's what and she said Oh. Napoleon's the little dead dude, which is what he's. One of these kids in this movie had called Napoleon. And it was a classic Napoleon Carragher, and she started going into mean, that's how young she was when she played in the beginning, and she was young, and she was fresh, and she was had a big big game i. mean basically. Chris Evert had played in her last match the US Open. And the player who had been taught by Chris Evert by Jimmy Evert at from a very young age in Florida Jennifer Capriati and she. The tour kind of needed a young fresh. Played like Christie and who had plenty of? Youth and plenty of. I mean the kid is great. And she loved everything, and she had a terrific first year on the tour, and then it all started. Weighing down on her, too, but for a while she was prodigious, she had some fantastic result. She reached the semi's of Grand Slam tournaments. The ages of fourteen and fifteen, and included into and even won Olympic gold in one, thousand, nine, hundred two, but already cracks were starting to appear at that point I was watching some of the coverage of her gold medal win against. Against Steffi Graf in Barcelona Nineteen Ninety two this morning and Chris Evert even back then is talking about how she starting to loosen of motivation, she starting to rebel a little against some of the things that she's being told tennis players do bear mind. She still only sixteen at that time and actually Matt. If you then start to look a results after that I mean. It Becomes A. Very different tile, doesn't it? Because she went from playing a lot of tournaments to not play very much all absolutely, she only played one match in one, thousand, nine, hundred four season, and not at all in the nineteen ninety five season, which means she completely fell off the rankings altogether. And then she had a couple of seasons ninety, six, ninety seven when she was trying. To make some sort of comeback, but not not having any results to. With any matches slams. So she enters the nineteen ninety eight season, having not won a match at the slam for four straight seasons when you consider everything that she'd done. Age Fourteen fifteen sixteen in the slams. It's a it's a massive massive drop-off. So what happens, let's find out from Lindsey Mary. How about being on the cover of some of the magazines? She was on the cover of like fourteen years old. It was it was really hard for her I think I was the benefit of kind of thing that I was playing junior tournaments still in the United States is, she's trying to win the US Open and getting to the semis at fourteen or fifteen so I can kind of see that okay. You can be this good. And she was an exceptional talent, but while that have been really fast and really young for her. She became the breadwinner, and she signed these huge contracts and. And she you know. She struggled and she she didn't I thought that they she was playing too much, and she was jumping from time zones, time zone and Playing next does and and just you know. She was a kid and she missed being a kid. Which is why I think this pandemic break is going to help someone like Cocoa Goth just she doesn't have to feel like she's missed out on everything. When this finally lifts. She and she had. She had a big game. She had a a good mind and. You know. She started the struggling. She started fighting. This is back in the days where you can play too much tennis. If, you're a little kid. you know the tour couldn't stop you from? From playing too much, and you know any kind of a law. She took very hard she her dad tried a couple of different coaches, and then if she'd have a good run I think Steph McCaffrey Ati. A would sorta resent. The fact that the coach was getting credit, so the coach will go. It was crazy. Crazy stuff jennifer. Jennifer ended up. Sort of coming back from her own despair and her own issues. Her drug issues in winning a couple more majors. But it's conscience, absolutely the cautionary tale. In women's tennis, she is the one that. Boy She! WHO's GonNa, be so good. That's pretty pretty hard to hear all that, isn't it? About the struggles that she had in the reasons for them and yet, I still find myself thinking Catherine. What would I do if I were her parents and she was just an? Prodigious talents got this this incredible athletes on the Hans who also seen to absolutely love playing tennis seemed to want to do all this, but she's only thirteen or fourteen. It's it's very easy for someone might say oh. The should have done this or that, but it's it's not easy. Is it and I feel for those that were guiding and her herself. Yeah, in the in the full Kris interview. She'll be running in well a about a week's time. She talks at quite great lengths. She said of debates with herself on the topic of whether it's actually possible to a a young champion and superstar in the limelight, and also be well adjusted human being you know it, it might be that it's simply not not possible to develop a sense of self in in those sorts of circumstances of course. You've got this crazy concert. The biggest possible contrast expose with with Lindsay Davenport. I hadn't realized until I, did that interview with Lindsay that exactly the same age of imports in Capri, artsy, same birth, year and Lindsay Davenport. Is this outlier in in in Tennyson that she has seemed to always big completely well adjusted human beings. She talks in our interview which again. I'm sure we'll run in full at some point about how parents was fall from pussies is possibly be, and she says you know maybe that cost me some successively young age, but but. In terms of what I what I gained on a on a human level, she she wouldn't have any other way, and of course you've got. You've got of sliding. Does situation to illustrate what he can cost isn't unfortunately cut. Priority is the cautionary tale steps, but he said. Yeah. It is because I, mean she. She really did go off the rails for awhile there and there was the moment when she was caught with. Marijuana at a party that she she laid on for for people she thought were friends of hers, and she ended up with a mugshot all over. The newspapers and it's it's difficult. Isn't it for to know who's WHO's responsible when you're, you're in your mid to late teens and she starts to become somebody who, in theory can take control of her own life. Parents are still heavily involved of course, but you know you can get some body and I I don't know how you. How you really handle that. But at the same time, Matt's described the activity in the the the mid nineties. The light night is but. Then, she managed to forge a comeback, which which in itself was really something. I mean I thought. We were endgame of her career in the late night. Is I did not see how she could possibly make a meaningful comeback with the she'd been out of the game. And yet here she is going into nine thousand nine. Use Open when she She reached the fourth round sheer. Maybe she read a statement to the press at the end of it. Basically saying you know I just. I just wish people would let me leave me alone a little bit too to to kind of get used to life and find my way. She says you know I. I was quietly rebellious, but I was never never the sort of person that I was made out to be. And she was just inching away back into her career. She had a run to the semi finals of the Australian Open Two thousand and then. Wins the two thousand and one Australian Open and it really did feel surprising that she managed to make herself force again. And then here she is basically the best player in the world. She managed to get to world number one at the end of two thousand and one and part of that was this French Open does. She played in two thousand one, the final against Kim Clijsters, and we've just watched it back. It's it's not a vintage match Catherine. Long. Very Good I think it's the it's the ultimate looks can be deceiving or scorelines can be deceiving because on paper. It looks like it's going to be. The Lights. Yes! We were looking at the scores. I couldn't remember that well. We were looking at right. Which one we're. GonNa Cover twelve ten into. error-strewn and it was silent survey, wasn't it I mean clijsters playing in her first grandson final Caprio prianti trying to win another one, and she suffered I think three times. Yes, she yeah. She said three times clijsters herself was two points away from winning it four times. It was a very dramatic, tense final set, but just ever written just to players with similar game styles coming up against each other, and there's just a friction. There led to yeah, just not a not of interconnection all. They're actually some rumors. The day before the final. That cat `priority might not play because there was rumors circulating. Aged she'd received treatment. For a knee injury in the semifinal, but she said. She said I heard some asylum. Not Playing I, will be there, so she immediately shut down those rumors, but it was interesting that she played. Hingis in the semi final if this tournament just to. To move our story at hinges on a little bit from a couple days ago, I John Worth I'm wrote after CAPRIOSSI's victory. Everything is in the semis that nobody phase aengus anymore and I think there's something quite striking about Cap `priority be beating symbolism because. Hingis when she burst onto the scene, was the NT cat `priority in that she to handle being a precocious talent. You know really well. There was little and she won the five Grand Slam titles. And oversee kept. PRIANTI found that bit harder, but then. Capri Artie has this resurgence? And now Hingis is struggling and Hingis being hanged, gave a gave a little quote that sort of poked the bear little bit where she said Jennifer hot right now. She's on top of her game, but this is an opportunity. She's grabbing because everyone housing. hangers to come back. Just to do some press conferences, yeah, but it's interesting how Hingis founds. Kind of adulthood harder to negotiate whereas for `priority it was those adolescent is of coming onto the tall that she found so difficult. There's an interesting contrast between English and Capri `priority of that time, and it's not. It's not surprising at a thing. That was perhaps a little. Bit of tension. And I have an unclenched from watching. Watching that final, it was just so. Up Tights from start to finish. You're waiting for the moment where you think you know. When when one of them goes down in the school. They're going to loosen up a bit and they. The shoulders relax and they can. Start hitting with some freedom, but it just never happens, or it looks like it's happening for one rally, and then it loo- gate to pieces the the next round, though be some horrible era where the ball doesn't even make it into the tramlines. It's so stuttering and. Clenched kept reality with seventy nine unforced errors. Feature of classes. Is it as well that she's somebody who can look irresistible and then ten minutes late later? Look as as. A wilder does anybody else in the stadium as she doesn't know why she's I, mean we. She was sending bowls outs left right and center regulation shots just belt in the morning wide and seemingly have no way of stopping yourself, too. Uncompromising tennis, wasn't it? Both of them you know those periods of both of them were playing pretty horribly it they they refused. To relent with the game styles. There was a period. Of A couple of sets where I can classes just. Just hitting dropshots. Every every couple of games may be more frequently, not hitting a drop show and none of them were successful. Did she was losing every point? Goings completely. Uncompromising and I'd I'd gotten how young she was in that much. I have to say when when the commentators said that the stole the that she just turned eighteen Compared to cap yachties young success. That's nothing, but she is incredibly young, and she had the Belgian royal family sat on the front row for the whole match I mean. That's. That sits on bit of you know. Sports illustrated cover a type pressure in itself. Can you imagine being? Being eighteen and having the queen fly over to Paris. To sit from right what she is, not she a night tennis the Queen. She probably refused wow. But yeah, I mean that would be. Yeah I mean just just imagine just imagine not to mention. Lleyton Hewitt's out there as well. We had yesterday when when I was. Unexpectedly, limiting the relationship breakdown of Andrei Medvedev, an anchor who uber which is not something thought, find myself doing be. We ended up going down a rabbit hole of discussing sort of. Grand Slam memories that it probably quite. Plays to look back on or rewatch because they're so. Laden with clips of X.'s. And is quite low of Lleyton Hewitt. In the coverage of that finally, she actually, she thanks him in French in her runners-up. Speech Kim Clijsters. Thanks to my boyfriend staying here. 'cause he'd lost the lot earlier. I think in heads and it was really good of him to stick around. Maybe after to do like an edited version. To just do think and put. A mundy more free cupped. If the US, open final, two, thousand, three are the chance. I would. Very, awkward fee to watch any. If you wanted to settle down and what Shit with your your current? Partner or sudden? Click fast forward seen to show to your kids. He's that done? Yeah, exactly. The moment of victory casualty goes. I have an Chaz Hug. With Hadad which is is moving, and there are all sorts of stories about Stefan. Caveats, who's not on the with us now and. Lots of people have got lots of different opinions, but the the warmth in that moment between the two, and in many of the words that you hear Capri Artie. Say About Her dad a beyond dispute in terms of how she she talks about him. And she continued her career did caveat she had. She'd one. Two of the four Grand Slams by. That's time and she had a decent run. At Wimbledon, I mean it wasn't wasn't like she had one moments in time. She became a real force for two or three years. Yeah, she was the first player since Monica Sash to win the first two slams of the season. Monica said I shut down. In nineteen, ninety-two kept `priority was going for the for the kind of slam. She made the semi's. Wimbledon and the US Open in the end, and then won the Australian Open. The following season defended a title beating Higgins so yeah, this was her her second of three Grand Slams in. That she ended up with. And when I was watching, highlighted this one final on Youtube earlier. Once it was finished, she played onto a much between `priority and Serena Williams at the two thousand and two shape, and so the following year, and it was the ESPN buildup. There was a discussion between Pam Shriver Mary Joe, Fernandez and they were talking about the big three, and the big three were Serena. Venus Venus was number. One at the time was guaranteed to finish that. French Open is number one but Serena Venus in `priority. They were. Tennis is big three in two thousand and T and and. Tussling all the time, yeah, because capacity went on to win the Australian Open for second year in a row in two thousand and two, and remember those incredible scenes against Hingis where they're wilting in the heat, the heat of that fine, always like nothing we've ever seen and. I think is largely credited with being the reason why brought in a heat rule. The play needs to stop at a certain time because AENGUS was. Well, it was quite scary watching how how impeded she was copy came through. It managed to win that Matt so she's won three Grand Slam. She's the world number one and she had many more good times after that as well. Some wonderful matches US Open, one of the best matches of ever seen against just an an. Several tussles as you mentioned that Catherine with. With Serena Williams, and then I remember in two thousand four. She played the US Open shed a good run there as well and then she disappeared, she played one more tournament, one more match, and then never played again. There was never a city of. A really pleasant retirement ceremony or anything like that she she just injured his shoulder and was unable to come back and. It was sad she she disappeared from the tennis scene altogether. She did make a brief appearance. After being inducted into the International Tennis Hall of fame. requested that Monica Seles. Introduced her in that ceremony and it was. It was really quite moving to watch that she she said at the time that it's tough having to leave the game when I did it wasn't. My choice is like morning a loved one. and. It's not easy to to do something like that for your whole life, and then realize it's gone and you can't do it anymore. It took a long time to accept that and. And I'm not sure. She ever has let's. Let's hear again from Lindsey Potent Mary Carillo I. I'm grateful that she was able to achieve and get her slams and get those titles because i. she deserved I mean she was that good It wasn't easy for everyone to put all the pieces of the puzzle together, and she was dealt a very tough hand By being so good again so young. The people around her maybe didn't have a lot of experience and kind of handling it. Okay. What's best for our fourteen fifteen sixteen year old right now and that is that's hard. That's that's hard for anyone to kind of handle and again I think because of that, and because of maybe a lot of people making decisions for her. Because she was so young, she didn't know how to make decisions later on for herself, and that has led to things, not maybe going perfectly for her win win tennis ended also I think I told you I saw Jennifer's mom at Chris Evert sister's funeral this spring. And it was good catching up with denise, Capri. Roddick she had to lived through all of that and through a divorce, and through the struggles of this kid. And I asked after Jennifer of course and she just she. Said look on her face, and she said Jennifer continues to struggle. She lives in Florida, but denise. Hasn't you know she's? She's kind of pulled away from everybody the loss of her father a couple years ago. Really really hurt her And I think it sounds to me like she's suffering from depression, so I don't know that you're going to be able to get in contact with her. Even when she got inducted into the tennis hall of fame. there was a genuine concern that she wasn't ready to come out and give a speech in Newport. Rhode Island that summer. She wasn't sure she was up to and then she did, and she did a great job. There is a lot to Jennifer and there's a lot to her story and it's. It's a pity that. I hope she's getting all the help that she deserves to get that she needs to get. I I worry about her. I genuinely like had issues with their father. He wants tried to sue me. Side a little. Food A defamation of character. He didn't like what I said about him on the air. You know look we. We've seen all of this in years. We've been covering tennis at the same time. At a certain point God is only she kicked that coach loose just kicked to the curb and get somebody else. This is unhealthy. This is toxic. You know I guess. I felt that. You Watch that and you think it's almost like watching it in slow motion. Like isn't anybody GONNA. then. We're going to step in here. And she had some good people around or don't get me wrong. She had good people who saw it, but at a certain point you can't always at doesn't always make a difference. It's bittersweet, isn't it? Catherine because she had so many special moments in her career on the court that she enjoyed and that's we enjoyed. Is Tennis viewers? And yet to think that she's not happy. Now is a is a real shame. It's really sad to hear that story. An another little story that the Mary told us about bumping into her few a few years ago. she said a good ten years of the she'd. She'd been on the tool. That she had lost been active on the tour. She bumps into in Manhattan just by total chance and she said. Jennifer is still talking about coming back wanting to come back. She said she just had I think a second shoulder surgery and she was hoping to get back into training and I find. I find the the injury aspect to the story. The particularly sad, because it's just it's another example of how agencies been. Taken away from her. That's only she referenced as well as being something really tougher to take. Something that struck Ma as well in its is incredibly difficult, because ordinarily a thirteen year old girl, fourteen, fifteen sixteen little boy. You you shouldn't be making choices for yourself. I've never done parenting, but I'm glad that my parents didn't let me make my decisions. Myself h the team 'cause he knows where it be, but then you've got this completely strange situation when she's being thrust into an adult world being treated like an adult in so many ways. You know Mary Reference Tipping the breadwinner. For the family and Playing these exhibitions and so on, and so you should have been. The expectations of an adult, but not the Agency of an adult a noble Pechiney. T- to to develop a sense of self. So. To go through that, and then to sort of come through it to an extent and become a champion in the way that she did, and and hopefully during that period she did develop a sense of self in the sense of agency. To then have taken from her by by injury. Is Really Tragic I I find that that that story of Hers Still Hoping to come back ten years later. It's the it stopped P. Word again. It's Pathos in its. Scouting team. Has has stories so? Pay thoughts heavy in. that. Sports illustrated cover thirteen. You you kind of want to be excited about it in a way, it is exciting. But. I just I just can't help but feel whenever I look at that cover whenever I think about. The Jennifer Capriati story icon. Detracts the kind of what if scenario? What if she hadn't had? That exposure so young How different her life might have been I, think. She. Had a life mapped out for her so young. And she she may have thought that was what she wanted. She did enjoy it, but she couldn't possibly have really no. and. I think normally. Normally we get to make the big decisions in our life that various off in different paths. As an adult, and if if something goes wrong, we can then kind of take ownership of them as you were saying She. She can't do that I've heard. I've heard other child prodigies talk talk about not knowing the answer to that question Daniel. Radcliffe is the one who I've heard most recently. Talk about it. He had some troubles with alcoholism after of the during the Harry Potter films, and he says you'll never know the answer. Why why did I have those problems? Was it because potter was just because of who I was, and he has to live with that now and kept `priority well? That does seem to be a direct cause for her problems. It does seem to be fairly causing effect with what she was going through, but She just must wonder whether it was all worth as you said she had these great highs, tennis court, but so many lows and She the price she paid for her young start. Miss is the rest of her life. And that's that's very tough to take especially when. She didn't have much of a say in the matter. Banks Have Young I. Just find it incredibly difficult. It's only makes me. Cautious when we talk about coca, going has the last year and and it's really this story I I didn't know it as in depth as I. Know it now. Having researched it with you both as we just have, but it's always give me that uneasy feeling, and as as well as I, think his parents. Her parents are doing in order to try to. Make It work for her? It's just that each young. Yeah, and it's funny when I was. I did a Google image search for Jennifer Capriati early to try and. Have a look at that sports illustrated cover, which of course came up as one of the first results, but I'd say about twenty percent of the image results were pitches coca golf. which tells me something about how? Google algorithms reassessing the creation between these two. Now there is there is no there is no reason to compare them at this stage other than the bare facts that age and talent, and long may that may remain the case, and as you say that the signs of really good food for Coca Golf in the people. She has around her in the head. She has on his shoulders, but But you know even with those things in place, the force the forces that. Exposure! And pressure. It could could potentially be too much for for all of those good things to withstand, so I think it's. It's right that we have a long memory with this. We treat. Jennifer Capriati is a is a Kouchner. He's title and I know that that is a is a dump neurons, some of the policy, but better that we take that small hit now than. The new talking about coca goal for anyone else in these terms in in twenty years time. Chloride Catherine Matt's. It's. An emotional one to talk about and. One that I feel is important as well for us to recover. It always wanted to look more deeply into the career of Jennifer Capriati because. A new summit to be discovered and thanks to Lindsay Davenport, Mary Carillo and Tom Gullikson for helping us to tell that story, and then we will show well. I've never had the chance to speak to. It just as you know exactly. The sentiments reflected by By Marion Lindsey and I'm sure as well we we really wish I will. An Stephanie something that comes across speaking to of them, anybody you ask with antenna circles. They wish you the best. They want good things for it because. I think I. Think Mike Dixon routes. Caveat is a tale filled with pay us one of a likable and extremely talented individual pulled in every direction while hopelessly ill equipped to deal with it and you know she. She deserves hopefully some happy years ahead so good. I. Thank you for listening to the tennis podcast. Hope you're enjoying. Our Roland Garros relived series of podcast what we got some more. Oh, we have two thousand and two Serena. This is Venus Williams. And the to the big three. Right right right well. It's going to be fascinating to relive that as well so that's coming your way tomorrow. Thanks for your company today. If you've enjoyed it, do tell your friends and we'll be back again tomorrow with another tennis podcast.

tennis Jennifer Catherine Matt Jennifer Capriati Kim Clijsters United States Lindsey Mary Lindsay Davenport Chris Evert Capri Mary Carillo Florida Roland Garros Grand Slam Hingis USDA Serena Williams Sony Tom Gullikson Monica Seles
ACS (Part 1): Todd Garner, Rotten Tomatoes, and Hooray for Baldywood

The Adam Carolla Show

00:00 sec | 2 years ago

ACS (Part 1): Todd Garner, Rotten Tomatoes, and Hooray for Baldywood

"Thanks for listening to the Adam Corolla show on podcast one. I can't believe it that Gerald is presenting the quarterly budget report with finger puppets. Look here comes a one point seven percent decrease in fixed overhead. Hello, everybody. No. I can't believe how easy it was to save hundreds of dollars on my car insurance guy. Go. Projected increase in organic three revenue. Believe it. Geico could save you fifteen percent or more on car insurance. Your toolbox. Will we're playing on TV show based on a movie starring role where we'll movie, thankfully, the only song ever released the singles P side with the instrumental version ain't nothing it's David and he's making it on the two. Corolla one studios in Glendale, California. This is the Adam Corolla show Adams guest today renowned Hollywood producer. Todd garner calls in for a round of the rotten tomatoes gang with Gina. Grad on news involved Brian on sound effects. Plus, a special round of addition of Roeber Baldy would and now a man who can become unhinged about hinges. Adam roll. Yeah. Got tickets on a judge on mandate. For tuning in. And thanks for telling the friend. Good day. Gina grad ball, Brian dick Jesus Christ. Polling hinges off a door four minutes ago. And I did hinges the whole goddamn morning. Lynch's watching you. I was thinking about Martina Hingis the tennis player. Yeah. King. So I literally I got up I tired. I'm sorry for saying literally. But I this morning I got up early. I went to the new house. I was intent on swinging a door an wall that I moved around, and I was working on hinges and mortis in hinges in laying in hinges the entire morning. And then when I got back to shop instructed, Sean to pull a couple of hinges that I needed and place them by my car. So that I would have them when I was walking out. So it was all hinges all morning long. There's something in gotta tell you things. Look pretty good here. Pick up insanely gratifying to work with wood. People don't understand the demo bust out the stucco smack up. You know, the demo part the mess part the clean apart the paint part looks but the actual wood working part is insanely satisfying. And it's a kind of a satisfying that we need and you have to find your version of that kind of satisfying could be making lasagna. Since is why it brain hands engaged, quiet. Putting things together could be slices of pasta in meet. It could be could be doorstop door case indoor jam, but everyone needs a little quiet putting things together with their hands and the process of creating something. Yes. And we are running away from it. And it's one of the. Very many things I'm worried about as far as our society. Goes we are sprinting away from that kind of tactile go. Do it yourself kind of stuff. I'm not talking about DIY projects per se. I'm just talking about these simple process of either cooking or building or making or assembling or something you go. I I have to go get these things, you know, there's a list I need these components, then I will take them, and I will put them down here. And then I will start to put them in order, and there's a way to do it. And there's a beginning a middle and the end, and then at some point you're there biding into the lasagna or you're watching the door swing in and out. And you've it's insanely satisfying. It's not like a high five moment. It's just it's almost soothing. And the, you know, four hours a fortnight does not now accomplish that. And I just. Wonder? I worry. It's kind of all right here. We go. Let's float an idea. I when thank lows lows dot com slash truecar truecar dot com and madman madman. Enter Adam the notion. The the innovation. It's great innovation is is awesome. Get away from all the stuff we used to have to do and we've been running as fast as we can get away from all the things we had to do in the past with all the innovation but vacuum drive, but be careful because we need a certain amount of movement and our live and not just treadmill movement. Like movement involves your mind in your hands extrapolate that to like just what people do for a living. Like, we're a good example of come here. We talk in the microphone, and it goes on either people consume it and do people who produced things for a living. They produce whatever it is. But it's are we come around full circle on that. We do live shows the cruise we see that we meet the listeners, whatever. And it's like, oh, this is the product of our our work. I'm relieved because I thought you're going to say. Hours that we accomplish nothing anything to show for it. But I think this is this is a version of what the black hole that people fall into just thought about for the first time in twenty years was the move the first time this was in a movie, I can remember city slickers. Exits air I sell air, and now with the internet and the and everything being related to some dot com. Somehow that's kind of what everyone's doing their they're selling pixels selling Cheryl. Yeah. We'll go your virtual economy there. Look, I'm now realized the it's just all about balance. It's just it's about it's about balance. But because technologies pulling you further away from the lasagna and the doors swing you must push your way back toward those events, those activities, and and I think same people are attracted to it. I think Gina or at least people who are striving for sanity Gina never obtain. It. Nearly all the stuff hamster wheel. All you've been doing in. The kitchen is is is a attempt that sanity or is as siren song of sanity or is a impulse of sanity. Like, I need to be here. I can't live in a world where you just talking or telling jokes sharing thoughts right up on my feet and get garlic under my cuticle. Yes. And not only that. But when I'm doing it. I perfer like night and day. No question to be alone. So everyone out of the kitchen, please. Because this is kind of a sort of a meditative time, I like to concentrate, I like to think about things, and I don't wanna have to interact and share that energy with somebody else. So interesting Todd garner. Who's going to be calling in? And he's a big time producer and con air everyone Hawk Down Brun big-time anger management, Paul blurts than a million million Sandler movies. I saw him. So head his crazy thing where like I ran into him yesterday afternoon. I don't know if we've ever met before I was going to a meeting he was standing in front of a building in century city, and I literally just ran into him. And then he said oh. Rotten tomatoes. I'll be doing it tomorrow. And I was like I had no contact. What do you know about? It was around. I had no idea what's going on. He he figured it out with me. But I I literally ran into him yesterday. So he's got thoughts on just about every a list celebrity has a million friends. The all the all the big names in comedy been doing it all but again who else is done Black Hawk Down and deuce Bigelow and Paul block. That's that's a little rain. So he's going to be on the phone. We'll play rotten tomatoes. Ridley Scott didn't direct. Earthline? He did the one. Mulk up. I was at the ice house last night. That was interesting working out my material weird sitting in a green room with like struggling comedians asking questions about how do I get on stage, or where do we stand or where do we go or how do I know? And it's been twenty minutes you were chewing their you're off question. How to do this thing? How'd you do? This is the Mike honor. We switch. Well, it was it was strange. I would just sitting in the green room. There are other comedians one of which I wanted to stab in the neck with a pen knife because I said. You look from Miller have we met before you look so familiar and he said because he must get this all the time. He said I was on TMZ for eight years. So TMC's one of the shows where if you're watching, you know, Buffy the vampire slayer, the sopranos, and you see a character you go. Oh that guy from that show. But TMZ everyone just sits around and talks all day. So you don't know where you go. I know you you think you hung out with them. But it's because there's four man. So I said I'll I'll get his name is not he's not there. Speaking a witch. Derek mar dare TMZ spoke to him happy to come on the show. I'm a big fan of his chat. So van is coming on from TMZ friend of Derek. Anyway, I just said van they said for the pickup high. No, you I said, I do I know I am never say that. But you look so familiar she said TMZ. So anyway, it happens all the time. So I said, oh, what happened with TMZ? And he sitting I did for about eight years. We really early morning Bubba blonde. My wife just said that's enough is enough. And I said how's that work? And he said, I'm my wife's real successful. And she said look Honey what he killing yourself can up at five every morning going. It do stand up just just take time on his permission slip. I'm like, what's your wife? She runs daytime at CBS. She's in charge all the shows. Just just she does just fine for south. So she just she finally after she'd been bothering me for long enough -nough enough is enough with getting up at five in the morning. You should be going out pursuing your dreams of being a standup. Wow. Yeah. Pursue your folly. Yes. Yes. Here's the staff. Well to be fair wanted to stab me, then when stab him. Who I want to say, I I think me, but I was like, well, you're biting you to quit your job. So you could go out at night stand up because she'll wildly successful during the day that it wasn't like after just talking her grinding her down for years. She finally said, okay, come. Yes. So good. I know so good. All right. Todd garner is on the line. We'll play rotten tomatoes. I I'll tell you about truecar got sixty seconds. That's how long this commercials gonna last. What else can you do in a minute and getting off on your car? Just go to truecar from your smartphone or your computer, enter your license plate number and watch your car's details Papa answer if you quick questions. Get an accurate troop cash offer from a local truecar certified dealer, then bring in your car. They'll check it out. You look at it together and ask if you questions get a few answers, no surprises, then you can either leave with your check or you can trade in your car for new ride. So when it's time to go new it's time to go used or maybe just wanna cash out take your car to truecar. It's a better experience. It's a better way to sell your car. It's better way to trade in your car. And you can check it out today. It is the best. It is true. True car. Todd garner Todd. Yeah. We ran into each other yesterday. Correct. How you feeling I'm feeling good? How did we run into each other yesterday? You did you. I was coming out of a meeting, and you were going into a meeting so crazy, I'll tell you. It was it's the towers at century city where they did die hard. I think. Yeah. Tell me plaza. I'm always happy to return out. Those buildings were inhabited by comedy central and history channel discovering Bubba, blah. And I always love going back there for meeting because my very first cramp job was painting commercial office space for a lawyer who invented office suites for lawyers named Paul Fiji any inhabited those towers, so I would go to those towers and paint with Andy the Jehovah's Witness for seven bucks an hour and just paint Navajo. White or Mustang. Why Navajos Brown or something on every single wall and that plays with the most miserable miserable job ever? So I always love going back to those towers and having meetings where I get my Perrier Todd who you you never stopped producing Bri. Let's brag a little about you for a second. If you would. Well, I don't know if I don't know about bragging, but yes, I never stopped producing the fear and stress is very good motivator. Right. Well, there is a sense in this. You tell me if you have this sense. I have the sense of this in this industry were in which is if you take a few months off in you get out you get out like I mean, unless you're Tim Burton or something you're just out, and you might not get back in you have that fear. Oh, yeah. I have a feeling every day. I absolutely. Yeah. And then I, you know, I have a movie this this Reva Wilson movie that's coming out in February called, isn't it romantic? And I'm starting a movie in February with John sina comedy for paramount. And and and in the back of my mind, I'm going. Yeah. But what about March, right? Yeah. I guess you need I think everyone. So how do you balance that let's get philosophical for second. This notion of your motivated, but you don't wanna be running scared because you blink your eyes and thirty years goes by and you're sort of motivated by fear, but there's obviously a balance because if you take your foot off the accelerator, and you go I'm gonna cruise for a while you can fall asleep at the wheel and hit a semi truck. What is the sort of color Ivan Reitman syndrome, what is to balance of dollars of saying, I know he's mean to yelled at me Jimmy times, what does that balance of being motivated all the time, but not through fear? Todd. That is by the way that is the big question because I you know, there's a little bit of fear is a good thing. 'cause it's it definitely gets you up and gets gets the fire-lit, but to just live with it on a daily basis can really just wear you out and grind you. So you, you know, look, I have two great kids married. I I have a great life. So I try to put that away as much as I can and balance it and believe me, there's nothing more grounding than having a seventeen year old son who just does not give it crap about my business. To just be like, I can't even get him to come to the movie sets anymore. So my kids ground me. Can you know in a in a great way? Yeah. I've two kids one of great to and and a wife a wife is well, I won't say which one say, I don't say it's the boy I knew I probably sat to. Stangled it out there. So Todd one of our favorite films Black Hawk Down. That's when a Brian's time favorites Conair is probably film. I may have seen more than any other. I don't know me too. By the way, anytime it's on. I always watch it again, you know, why? Because you're only eighty to one hundred five seconds away from a great scene or great line that could be a slow motion cigarette flick SCI they're they're so much. There's so much going on the could have Johnny fifteen and a cage in the plane, or whatever his name was we'd have tea party an empty pool. That's right. Right. You know? It's funny about that scene is when we we first we I mean, I, you know, I I was an executive on it. I Jerry bruckheimer produced it and Simon west directed it. But when that scene was I cut it was four and a half minutes long him in that pool with that little girl. It was torture. He really be entire time thought, man. He's definitely gonna kill this girl right now or worse. I. Yeah. Lot going on love that movie. All right. So yes, Brian nice to meet you, my name's Brian. I talk a lot of movies on on this particular show. I'm looking at a list are some notes producer made your favorite movies of the deadpool two and if Beale street could talk. Well, no, oh, yes. Sort of. I mean, deadpool two is my favorite movie of last the two thousand eighteen. I think I think it feels tree could talk is gonna win the economy word. Why do you think so? Because I think that I think that these things start to get momentum. And and and I just feel like that movie coming off the Golden Globes. We'll probably start together some momentum with the voters and don't forget, the the academy voters is a completely different body of people than the Golden Globe. Golden Globes are a hundred and forty three people in the foreign press that liked to have a big party and and get people drunk kademi voters. Most of the academy voters are are in the in the sag branch, and I was just sitting in an incredibly well-crafted movie. Where's it at now? Brian can look it up in terms of Vegas, and that's going gonna work my it fits in with my theme. Which is we have seem sometimes it's may to sometimes it's black lives matter that factors in for best picture notice type things have it on top of my head bet online at AG has the odds right now as Roma as the best picture favorite off of the Golden Globes. Todd. I I love your logic. But to that logic. I think a star is born is the open and shut like winter just because it was directed by an actor got tremendous performances that said, I do know a LA La Land is a great example which lost to Barry Jenkins movie. Moonlight a lot of times you can get backlash to what everyone thinks is the early early favorite. You know, a lot of land. That's the winner. And there was a huge tide turns you know, what I mean. And by the time doing well that that was Kimmel fucking that headway for Sunday actual out the movie that was Kimmel's mistake. Tell you. Jimmy copies of money. Yeah. Do you? Also, see look happening with the writer of green book and and fairly now. I mean, these things become so political, you know. This isn't this right now. But I'm saying these things get so political where all of a sudden now past is past transgressions are are brought up. I mean once these once he's academy racist start all kinds of stuff can go sideways by the time, the voters are done. This is what I'm saying. Which is I think it's been politicized to some degree. I'm not arguing. One hundred percent, I'm not arguing fifteen fifty percent. Just enough to get. Moonlight past LaLa land. All you need to about ten percent. That'll get you passed it with the right theme. And the problem with the stars born to white people singing, his fine. But it's not as good as the times, we're living. Let me let me also make this comparison LaLa land stars born better than land Beale streak could talk not as good as moonlight. So you have a bit of a dispirit now it's a tie now at now, we're pushing. Yeah. Okay. I just don't like the politics, especially the past of the director, whatever the film is. It's such a weird approaching art such a weird way. Which is let's pick apart something one part of this puzzle did like director three years ago and see if we can't graph that into our decision making as to best picture two thousand nineteen weird. Okay. Todd you ready to play the game. Yeah. You've been you've been briefed. I'm I'm sure right. Absolutely. All right. You should be good at this Todd. But you won't be no your here's the thing. I definitely won't be 'cause I never look at rotten tomatoes because of the types of movies that I make we'll never we're not wait go higher than ten. I understand the I was a little disappointed, but the second one was crash, right. I here's the thing. We will not know any of these from memory or through them or having having looked. It's just going to have to guess what the critics gave it. All right here. We go. Tomatoes game is presented by truecar. The game. All right. You will write it down. We'll all right down our percentage. And we'll go to you first, by the way should tell you the Todd cut a podcast the producers guide every Thursday and podcast one and apple podcasts as well. Sandwich. Been. Honorable Wilson's been on fissures on here. We go Dawson. All right since we've got Todd garner on the line. We thought we'd get to know him through his movies, but to spare in a game filled with what blow hearty critics thought about his films. Today's round will be filled with movies not produced by Todd. But featuring actors and actresses he has worked with in the past. Starting with this one. The first feature film, Tom produce was two thousand one's the animal starring our friend, rob Schneider. The film also feature John C McGinley who appeared in a film about a hotshot detective named Alex the star of this film. Medina herself Tyler Perry. Two thousand twelve Alex cross. Oh, that's where Tyler took a turn for the serious. Thing about this movie. Oh, boy seen it. He was playing cop on the edge. Well, let's see critic probably liked that he got out of the medieval spanks and did a more serious role. But I don't think anyone love this film. But Todd the reason got to play the game as you know, are we into the low twenties or the high teens are with these enough at fifty five fifty seven I'm gonna lock it in. All right, Todd. How say you. I say twenty percent twenty percent Brian's could be of early. I said fifty eight I don't anything about this movie. I know nothing Gina strong movie poster line don't ever cross Alex cross. I gave thirty five focus group. Thirty seven. Oh, no, Alex. You guys clearly have never like produced a movie. Those are those are pretty good numbers. Alex Cross's rotten at twelve. Start ever been or early wrong start? Yep. All right here, we go Todd was executive producer on triple x starring VIN diesel. But little do people know before he became a full fledged action star VIN was in this beloved cult classic. The iron giant. Oh, that's right. All right. What year was this? Do we know nineteen ninety nine people like this film Brad bird right before the incredible love to still. I'm just going to tell you guys. I it it definitely is going to be up there. But oh. All right. I'm locked in. Okay. Todd. How say you. Gosh, I'd have to ninety. Yeah. This is a really good movie. I gave down. Yeah. I went ninety one. Let's deal really screwed the pooch on this one. I felt pressured and I wrote down seventy seven the iron giant is certified fresh ninety six. All right, right. You said ninety to ninety also or nine ninety nine to two. Couple of points close. Fill out front ninety seven seventy time. Todd worked with Cameron d is on night and day, not a bad movie on like this film was not an adaptation adaption of drug fueled guns trip to Las Vegas. Cameron. Played a TV reporter in. Nineteen ninety eight's fear and loathing in Las Vegas. I remember this movie I highly anticipated because of the book, but didn't live up to expectations. But I can't figure out Terry Gilliam tear, Gilliam, directness Depp. Right. And he's playing. Hunter toro. Yeah. Yeah. This was this was how many years after where the buffalo roam where Bill Murray played in expectations of this movie too. Because the book was so popular it'd been tried to get eight years. But it was it's Terry. So it's nuts. So very why. Where are we as a great moment this movie where he's doing a flashback? He's a flashback scene to the seventies. A bunch of drugs like nineteen seventy five there. I was and he walks past and the actual hundred Thompsons in the back radios. Holy shit there. I am. I'll write the critics didn't love it. But did they hated Johnny Depp's good? He played this shit out of this role. All right. I'm locked in tan. I'm like that. You only say, I sure. I just by what you said. I'm going fifty. 'cause I think you're right. I think it's like the hated eleven I can't remember Brian. I had I'm in plain from behind mode now. So I seventy five gene, I'm the same. I I have a lot of ground to make up. I said eighty one fifty seven. Fear and loathing in Las Vegas is sitting at forty nine. That's shocking in the audience hesitant. Eighty nine percent is a chasm. All right. How this movie Todd Don, something that rarely happens is happening here. Somebody with a fresh run tomato. Hyman? It's never been pierced dominate. But now we get into the water. I gotta be fair. You gave me that one. We're getting lose. I went in the middle. We're getting into the championship rounds here. Here we go. Todd worked on the charming rom com. Thirteen going on thirty with Jennifer garner. Thankfully, Todd had nothing to do with this film. Nineteen ninety seven's Mr. Magoo. No, listen Nielsen. Oh, yeah. Oh, right. Says the eighth blunder of the world. He's gonna walk up to side of a building. All right. What is this number four Dawson? Yeah. Yeah. Okay. Well for those of us that are behind Todd by fifteen to twenty five points. It's time to go. Big or go home by big. We could being could mean small. I'm gonna lock myself in. Okay. Todd. What do you got? I'm gonna go might be blasphemous. I wanna go zero. Ooh. Fold rejecting that. I just think it might be because he might have picked it because there's there's a few zeros out there. And this could be. Let me tell you. Sometimes I liked what you doing doing. What Atlanta did against New England in the Super Bowl few years? We're passing we could just hand the ball off and get out of here at the Lombardy. But now, we're dropping back them. Yeah. Brian didn't go zero. I was going to four. Well, I've met have gone way too. High said six I want nine on that for Mr. Magoo Broughton at seven. All right. Well, someone have seven. Nine we picked up a few. All right. But I think we all still need to make up between thirteen nineteen out for sure here, we go. Todd worked with ice cube on a number of movies triplex state of the union. We are we there yet. And it's sequel, he did not, however work on this next film, which is essentially about Matt fond Leers life growing up nineteen ninety one's boys in the hood. Who? This day. Stay byu. Yeah. Angleton single thins still met with him. Recently. Got a lot of energy working on a project together mic cited. All right. They loved it. But this is an older movie. And sometimes you think about movies like this, you wax, a little poetic. But at the time, I'm just throwing out some options at the time. Sometimes not as highly rated this has happened to us a few times as as then history. They can go both directions. But we are going to have to get dead nuts on I feel like I'm within striking distance. But I I gotta get right right on it. I. Okay. I'm locked in. Todd. How say you. I'm gonna go ninety again. I did not do myself any favours at one ninety two ninety six. Don't forget a young hot Morris chestnut. Eighty seven. Could be the patriots coming back for a comeback boys in the hood is certified fresh at ninety six percent five. Wow. Yeah. Get away. If you land dead nuts on well. Bryan needed that. But I really I think it'd be a little a little too little too late. What are we got an and Todd if in fact, you do win this game, not only do you win but in convincing fashion? I mean, they're they're they're days. We have off days here where we get into triple digits. We have some good days. But this is a good clean win. This is if you win this is it isn't because we were in triple digit. This is the poison the hood of debut performances on the rotten tomatoes. That's right straw. One skill is knowing feeling that the critics vibes. Gina grad. Tough one. If bald Brian had not gotten pointed Duchesne, he's still would've meet you here in loving everybody. Gina grad eighty three we're going to give you four th place. I like to was it. A battle for second place today. Adam corolla? Bad news for a lot of people. It's not going to really affect you. But the government is still shut down. You got a score of forty four. Respectable. Ball, brian? I am happy to say. That there's room on the podium for all three of you the room because on the telephone Brian seventy four for third place leaving Todd garner with the championship round at twenty eight. To see Todd in studio to make sure it's not researching. Okay. I'll be happy to do. So. Wow. I mean, really. You know, five five point six per per movie. Very solid. Todd, very solid and for that you get a plug. The producers guide every Thursday on podcast one. And apple podcasts. I look forward into running Indian front of another commercial building percent. Well. Well, thank you feeling better. Are you driving a Ford raptor pickup truck? God. I wish you know, what I want. That's the truck I wanted and I it it's so hard to get. And then when I actually sat in it's a little too big for just cruising around Los Angeles as much driving. I do. So I'm actually driving GMC convoy. I just saw a black raptor parked in front of the century city building. And last I saw Todd he was walking toward it. So I. Over it is that his ride or or not thanks Todd. We'll let Tony next week. Appreciate it. Presented by truecar. We don't wanna talk to Todd again next week. Now, we're just playing for second third and fourth. The number. Wrapped himself around the concept of this game. Very quickly up to speed right something I'd been wanting to play everybody. We got Baldy would coming up with a few movies teased a movies. You're going to do Brian. I've seen since the last Baldy was which was bohemian rhapsody. I've seen eleven notable do more than that. But movies that are in theaters now that are going to be up for Oscars one Golden Globes. The F are mentioned Beale street could talk some good some bad. I'll go worst to first and the top one or two. We'll definitely surprise you Beale street. Not you didn't feel strongly about it. It's funny because Chris, you know. Roam you notice that it's favorite movie of the year. I have written down in my notes. I said I can see everyone agrees. This is good. I can't imagine this being anyone's favorite move always shocked. My please explain of course, he was like I think it's gonna win ninety five percent. Yeah. It's it's good. It's good word of the peop- Savitt seventy-one. Well, see it's not gonna big audience. But that's my whole never ending sort of bell ringing of when if I see what I would assume to be sort of a neutral topic. Like if you look at. I believe if you look at the bohemian rhapsody that critics and the people are just sort of the same score seventy or sixty nine whatever whatever it is. It's kind of same because there's not a lot at play. If you start factoring in that sign of the times, and some of the current political movements and things like that. Then you get the disparity between where the people are. And I tend to just go with the people as I guess, Brian is on this particular one because they're not really influenced by what which way the wind is a crowd pleaser. It's well, yeah. I don't know. I agree. I think critics feel a certain amount of pressure politically. Physicians. Right. And nobody wants to be on wreck. Nobody wants to say. Oh, Hidden Figures is okay. Paint by numbers fine. The what it was. What was it sort of makes you it's women? It's black women. It's the sixties. It's oppression kind of makes you feel bad person. So people are pressured a little bit, and they go it was really good and they'll get they'll get left get left alone. So there's always that. There's that is now in play it wasn't it played a few years ago or so now now is play vice green book I'm talking about. All all, right. I'm excited to hear about them. All I wanna play you guys a clip. So somebody sent me this tweet some days ago, and we just been kind of sitting on it we edited it a little bit video. It is about the lottery and about the difference between people sort of compares in contrast happiness levels of people that have won the lottery versus people have become paraplegics. All right, and guys you find it interesting. Something of been feeling and kind of knowing which is I feel like if someone is happy. They're they're resting state is happy. They're nature's happy. And when you think about what who's happy, you know, we do this thing a lot where you go. Well, depends what's going on. But I have a dog and fill is happy in it doesn't depend what's going on so much his normal state is happy happy dog now sometimes he's hungry. And sometimes he's horny and sometimes you wants to get in or get out or go, the bathroom, whatever it is. Which is something we all have the general state of failed is happy, and we all know dogs, whose general state is not happy, and we know people who have a general state happy now that person who's a general resting state of happy when they look in the rear view mirror, and they see the rollers and they looked down. And they see they've been going eighty one and they're getting pulled over at that. Particular moment, the probably not happy. But there are a happy person in general. And my my thought is that when a happy person has tragedy. Befall them, and they end up in a wheelchair. They get back to happy because they get back to where they were. They were they wrote. Date. And when unhappy person wins the lottery, they'll get back to that. I don't think a lot of happy people play the lottery because what are they want? So self selecting unhappy people thinking, they will be happy if they have stuff, which of course, as we all know, never changes anything. So I'll play this arts Arthur c Brooks, president of American Enterprise Institute. Again, somebody just tweeted me this. And I like it when you guys tweet me stuff. I look at it. Try to look at hundred percent of the time. And this case a couple of days get to it. But it's based on a study from Northwestern University. And here we here we go the wolves wonderful study that points this out my favorite study of is subject comes from Northwestern University. Social psychologists that northwestern they studied to groups of people perhaps you've heard about this study ancient nine hundred seventy eight, but it's so good that people still talk about it a lot. They looked at paraplegics and they looked at lottery winners. Okay. And they wanted to know six months after the punctuating event of their lives. What happened to their happiness? First paraplegics. The interesting thing is six months after their accident. Their happiness had returned almost all the way to where it was the day before their accidents. Incredible. Now, you're thinking I don't want to anything. I would do anything. I would die before we lose all mobility, some of you would say that. Right. No. You wouldn't if this happened to you six months later, you would be you. That's a beautiful thing. The more interesting case perhaps is lottery. So if you won the lottery, what would you do? That's a typical party game. You want to break the ice with people? You don't know go around the room. If went the lottery, what would you do? They always say great things. Great things. I win the lottery. Good things would happen, right? Here's the interesting thing from the nineteen seventy eight study you look at people who hit the lottery, six months later. They're happiness about everyday life is lower than it was the day before they won. So not radically lower. But they just enjoy day-today life less and permanently than the day before they won. How do you measure that you say how much do you? Enjoy shopping hanging out with family playing sports goofing around with your friends answer is less less. Think about what you're really looking forward to this coming weekend. I bet if you told me it would sound really boring. It would be coming to have dinner with somebody on love. I'm gonna I'm gonna spend the afternoon with people really interested. And we're going to talk about these dumb trivial things. It's relationships. It's the love in your life. That's what gives you enjoyment. And that's what gets blown out by this big experience for people. We see in the data who've hit the lottery, and that's the reason that we have these life ruining behaviors because they're looking for the life in life, and it's gone. They substitute it with these audacious preposterous things like buying stuff. They don't want or need turning to drugs and alcohol. Hall. Inappropriate relationships. That's actually what happens the best thing that can happen to you. When you buy a lottery ticket is that you don't win. It's it's sad that the government pushes the lottery is hard as it pushes the lottery. I would argue that it's sort of negligent they push it's hard as they push it, especially when every other form of gambling is illegal. They pushed a one this one's. Okay. Well, I think when you pick a football parlay there's a satisfaction in that because you prognosticate like I mean, you took this team. And you factored in who was injured. And what can you know? Many people are now going what's the temperature New England like in Tom Brady, he's twenty four and seven when the temps dip below twenty five degrees. And that then becomes like, you're winning a chess game versus winning a game where you flip coins. Now, your number got drawn, and you feel involved, and you feel satisfied, and you feel like it took some of your knowledge and dexterity usual. Not that the lottery is gambling for people who shouldn't be gambling. And it's the most irresponsible form of gambling and the government pull the quick one on all of us, which is they just want. The money's going to the schools and everyone. Oh, good for you. Good. That's good. I I've said many times if a school counselor told one of the students, hey, you should buy a lottery ticket because I have no idea where you're heading after high school. They would be fired and rightfully so. Yeah. That's the worst the notion that it's going to school is almost like saying we're selling cigarettes in the money's going to schools. It doesn't make the saints the inherent. Yeah. What also it flies in the face of everything? You want your kids to learn and to do and how to behave anyway, it'd be nice if the government got out of the lottery business, and you know, what else? I don't know if you've talked to a lot of people that play the lottery, but now former co workers or family or friends they. Anecdotally. They all have one thing in common when they've got my ticket. I honestly don't know how to buy a lottery ticket, and I don't know where to watch it. It's just it's just never been in my orbit. But they're never I've never heard anyone say I'm gonna go on vacation. I'm going to get a big mansion, I'm going to do whatever. The first thing that we say is something negative. I fucking hate my job, and I quit to stick. It. No, brian. And I can't wait to stick it to this person. I'm never going to give that person anything. And it's always just this negative vomit of energy. Well, no, really think about her that again with the mindset is I always feel sorry. I was at a liquor store last weekend. Somebody was feverishly scratching and filling and talking to the person behind the counter, it's also one of those fucking things where it's like, it's Starbucks where they went the skinny Frappuccino medium foam with a dusting of car, Nuba wax and just give me a fucking medium causing about you. Let's move it along here because you've got the person and. Monopolizing the guy behind the counter time. And there seems to be strategy. But this notion of I hate my job, I'm gonna play this thing. I will never win this thing. I shall just hate my job in perpetuity. You're probably not going to climb the company ladder. If in fact, you hate your job your boss, probably gets an inkling that you're not satisfied. You're happy at work. But you're going and playing this lottery something you have zero percent chance of ever working out. Now getting a little vocational training in another field has a high percentage chance of working out versus this. So the people that hate their job and play the lottery are criminally insane. Because you'll never win in Neil. Just hate your job in perpetuity and never be compensated, at least to the point that would satisfy all right Just should be. And I think we have our LA unified. I think schoolteachers going on strike or whatever it is whatever this money is that supposed to be going to the schools. I don't know exactly how it works. All I know is every time I hear somebody speak from at least LA unified is we don't have the money. The classes are too big. We can't handle all the new students. We need counselors half. The populace as half the kids are homeless from homeless families. We need more counselling we need bigger classrooms. We need more. We need more infrastructure. We need more computers. We need more everything. So I don't know where all this money is going. It doesn't seem to be making a dent. All right, nothing, by the way, in terms of students. If you have. Hey, families that are incomplete disrepair. If you have families that are shambles have families that are homeless families that are dicta drugs families that are chaotic if Amy's are using drugs and substances domestic abuse child abuse wetter is long as you have crazy Caddick families. You can never have enough counselors teachers classrooms anything. But by the same token, if you have families that are intact, and we're card and read with their kids at night and eat dinner together, and none of the things Corollas do. But if you have if you have those things, then you don't need the computers to technology, the extra staff that counselors the after school programs at all that so one direction is throwing money. Infinitely at a problem that can never be fixed because you're constantly chasing it and the other would be to reverse engineer at focus on the family and the home life a little and see if we could cut back on some of the things that we need at schools like that controversial nonsense trauma counselors and stuff now. All right. We got the potpourri of Bollywood, I I'll tell you about craftsman. Oh, lows new home for craftsman. I love me some lows order myself a wall mounted toilet, by the way. And picking it up over at Lowe's over there in Burbank. They'd last weekend. One battery system works with multiple products. Four six and eight tool combo kits available all with the two amp. High capacity lithium battery that works with the tools in their v. Twenty lineup. Run time you need the power you deserve v. Twenty brushless tools available. They have the V match brushless drill. The have the impact driver get that impact driver gonna change your life. And by the way, when you get the impact driver get a get a magnetic cartridge, put your one two or three sides. Screw tip in it and get self some Hex head driver bits as well. Get whole variety pack that the hammer drill for you're going to do a little masonry work. Probably made in the U S for the latest Cranston product update. Visit lows dot com slash Adam. I we'll take a quick break. We'll come back with a big array for ball. What? Hades corolla. It's Mark Gaga's. We do a show called reasonable down. Best our in the universe. Sometimes fifty four minutes and sometime we did known to do forty eight minutes as well. And sometimes our six either way we round up we like like Mark bills. It's exactly like in six minute intervals exactly every Saturday on apple podcasts and podcasts. Watt subscribed. To reasonable doubt. The best hour in the universe with Mark arrogance and Adam Corolla every Saturday on podcast one Corolla digital an apple podcasts. It's time to check Adam's voice mail. Th- man, the nineteen Eighty-three movie valley girl is just now come out blue rank, they got all the music cleared and stuff. Filmed in eighty two for watching. It would like to hear you rant or talk about how accurate that movie was your life. I know that when I'm watching that movie. I'll we talk about is that's probably like your junior senior year in high school. So how accurate is that movie? Please discuss would love to hear you can leave us a message at eight six three four one seven four four. They film a lot of it. Like, the calorie, I guess the Sherman oaks Galleria, I think same place fast fast times originally on high place, Miami theater, hotdog, arcade, blah, blah, blah. I've never seen the movie. Cajun he is. And I think I don't know it's one of my many Frank Zappa's, not a genius arguments stuff VO girls. It's such a stupid song. I hated being from the valley hated all that. And none of it would work for me because I couldn't do anything with my hair, and I couldn't afford a car, and it was just a bad time to be alive. But I will take a look at it just to see all of the crazy places up and down Ventura boulevard in Sherman oaks, and all that sort of places I used to hang out and grew up especially again with junior senior year high school. All right, shall we? Do a little ball v would. Her Ray football. Tell you about movies. Brian. He. Big screen flicks. Before you spend remember his case. Transform to array. Before we get into Bollywood around up straight from the home, libraries, and that Lear and yours truly the dark Knight. And the matrix watching doing turn it up. I shall be watching the majesty we'll go like I said I've seen eleven movies that are worth talking about notable movies. That'll be involved in the Oscar race or that are in theaters now and or available now some streaming. So let's go worst to first. And since there's eleven of what's been too much time. You tell me I want to hear more about this one here less about a move on about start with sadly, the least of the movies that I saw I had high expectations for this one. I love Robertson meccas movies back the future, castaway Forrest Gump, but MLK them tomorrow in below average movie. I was talking to somebody valued at around. Correct. Brian so excited, and they said, oh, he's going to be so sad. The based on a true story wise out of great documentary called Marlin call about this dude who was savagely beaten in a bar and woke up with brain damage, and he lives his life now with this literally dolls making up like this made up city of more win call set in World War Two and the problem with the movie melt, welcome to Marlin is that you can go for you can go for sappy sentimentality. That's a way to go. You can go for very nontraditional storytelling. That's one way to go. This movie has its feet in both. You know what? I mean. It's just it stumbles and falls on its face. I think it's fair to say as I've always described in movie making Steve Corrales. Great Mecca's Great. You can take. It's a Stu, it's a stew, and you put all your favorite ingredients. And then you go it's kind of been great story. And then you take you take a ladle and take a hit off it and you go. An ego. Why I don't know. It's just not not. There are other times. They're stings, you wouldn't expect and in your Stu and it works. So there's always an element of. And look there's people that never make a good Stu and people who usually make a good stupid. This is what seems like one of those moves where it's just it all did everything. And then everyone looked at it. When it happens reminded me of the terminal the Steven Spielberg movie with Tom Hanks, great story. Just did not add up. Right. Okay. So number ten the next moment. Now, we're still in the below average category. The mule Clint Eastwood moving trailer. No, good, great trailer. And that's the best team to the move. That is the I'm telling you that is the only tents scene in the movie for a movie about drug smuggling remarkably tension free. This is felt he was focused group for old people like how we can't scare these people dying theater. Let's scale back of it. Like, it is it is soft around the edges had no. No interest in seeing this movie, and all you're not missing much average. Now, we're gonna get into the worth seeing category purred box. If you talked about yesterday Burbach is not a great movie. It's not worth the hype. But it is not a bad movie. There's some good things about it. And Sandra Bullock kills it. She she is in every scene almost every frame. And she does a great job. Yeah. I haven't seen it yet. But I shall think my family's into it. And you know, every time there's a popular movie or TV show that name is on the rise. In more people are naming their kids Cooley, see because of game of thrones. How many boy and girl you gonna see the problem with this is I think it is made for people who don't see a lot of movie. It's like the the outpouring of support for this movie is like imagine you had an east German friend in nineteen ninety who had never heard western music, and it comes to visit after the wall comes down and here's Huey Lewis. And the news for the first time this amazed at the bad example, by tear my life, and you're right. This is fun and pretty good. But I'm gonna blow your mind with some really good music. Huey Lewis of movies. It's fine. It's enjoyable now. I know it's not steely Dan away. But they, but they have been listening to like dirges. Thirties. And now seems good I want a new drug seems like a big breakthrough. That would blow your mind if are Stein also streaming number eight for me the around average categories the ballot of BUSTER Scruggs. The new rather is move. It streaming on Netflix. You heard about this one? Yes. The valid BUSTER Scruggs is an anthology movie. It's shit. It's six short stories. So it's not a it's not a no country for old men through line. It's six short stories set in the old west three of which are good three of what you're not good. And you're left with kind of. All right. I'm the good news is you're not committing too much to anyone story. You're not gonna get burned like spent ninety minutes on that wherever you eighteen minutes or or ten minutes, or whatever is there a through line. No gold west. Some are good some are bad. Unfortunately, it kind of runs out of track and the last two or the worst too. I think so you turn it off. You know, forty five minutes in the more new movies. I see are the more movies that are, you know, get Oscar buzz or whatever it is the more. I do. Reminisce about no country for old men and some of those movies like Fargo and stuff like that. I go what happened to the really good stuff stuff? Then you really want to take your teeth into. This is not that number seven and now heading into the above average category. If Beale street could talk if we could talk direct by Barry Jenkins, director of moonlight. It's in theaters. Now, we talked about briefly a few minutes ago starring KiKi lane. Believe in a feature debut, Regina king one Golden Globe for best supporting actress ninety five percent around tomatoes nominated for best picture at the Golden Globes. I expected to be nominated for best picture. Todd is gonna win. What's it about? Not setting Beale street or anywhere near there. It said New York came back in the early seventies. That's another problem with the movie, you alluded to it without knowing it. There's not a strong narrative here. This is not a strong. This is this is going to drive a lot of people nuts. But it's a thing people, call certain movies, tone poems, like this movie is setting a mood, and it sort of trying to create this atmosphere, and it does it does it very well. But do not go into this thinking like I'm gonna see a great story. It's not it's frankly, it's kind of it's flimsy. You know what I mean? I like to be swept away. It's actually a depressing. Right. So this young couple. He gets up busted for something. He didn't do framed set up for crime sent to jail she's pregnant she carries the baby Bubba, blah. And it's about her family and the conflict with his family, and it's not a strong. I'm not selling the story because there's not a great story here. It's just ineffectively well done movie number six a movie, I enjoyed very much. Well, rakes the internet still in two thousand theaters I thought leaving this awfully. Though officer is in there. Yeah. Didn't get your mailbox chalk sequel. Of course, record Ralph. Yeah. I. The consistently. The animated stuff has been the strongest stuff over the last twenty years. Just wait now. Interim just mean the strongest riding strongest story strongest everything over the last twenty years consistently has been the animated, and this is a sort of by the number sequel instead of you know. Ralph end vanilla von suites. They go, Sarah Silverman. They go to the internet. You know, they'd be defined this part to their game to keep themselves alive. So the go to the internet. It's a clever well done better than it should be sequel. I actually have a clip from this one I enjoyed this scene. So much laughed out loud at this one. So at one point, you know, of course, the Disney property, they go to Disney dot com like this website, and they have a Disney dot com, and they live inside this website. They they can exist. What the characters and vanilla p the Sarah Silverman. The main character. She she wanders into the backstage Princess sweet. We're all the princesses like imagine Disney while the princesses gathering, and whatever and she wonders back there, and they are alarmed intruder. And this is the interaction. She has all the Disney princesses. Fam. I'm a Princess to wait what? Yeah. Princess fennell. Yvonne tweets of the sugar. Rush fund Schwartz's. You've heard him say embarrassing for you. If you haven't. Kind of a Princess are you what kind do you have magic hair? Now. Magic Hans no two animals talk to you now, or you know, I know kidnapings leave. No, are you. Location. The police have to assume you made a deal with an underwater siege where she took your voice in exchange for a pair of human legs. That. Kiss bar. Do you have daddy issues? Mom. And now for the million dollar question. Do people assume all your problems solved because a big strong man showed up? Yes. She is. Poking fun at the whole self-referential. The Disney Princess thing has been raked over the coals over the years for being dated. And so they had a little fun with that a fun movie better than it should have been moving on unless you have more questions. Now. Ralph to the favourite number five favorites winner for best. Supporting actress what does she win for? Actress. Yeah. For love your Coleman. This is the one that set in old England stone and ritual. Vice he's using trailer favorite spelled the British way. How might normally? I try. Now, I know they spelled directed by your ghost Latham owes. He did the lobster which a lot of people. You know, saw working fused by and dog tooth. This is not for everyone people. I've heard people whose parents have gone to see this like, oh, it's a period piece set Nolting. It is not what you think it's going to be. It's actually have a clip from this when too so it's about a very a very petty clean who is not at tower for leader all of your Coleman. She wanted to Golden Globe for best actress, and it was awesome to Golden Globes for best supporting actress, Emma stone and Rachel vice really acting showcase and rich of sort of her handler vice-president her handler, and she admonishes her in this clip for wearing makeup gogo clean it up. I'll take care of this and the Queen having been shamed. By her underlying. But she who she knows more attractive and more powerful and more accessible than her is going to take out. Her is going to take out her frustration on a on a guard. Do you really think you can meet Russian delegation looking like that? I will manage it. Showrooms? This is the Queen my deal. Did look at me. Did you look at me? That's the type of like subtle weird humor. That's in this movie. So it's not going to be for a broad audience. But there's some really good stuff in here. I know this is only like a thirty second clip, but it had that feel like a female Monty python? So that it's a fun down world. It's a fun version of phantom. Thread wonder what the God? Run tomatoes on that. I need four. It's a very good movie. It's not gonna have wide appeal. But it's good. All right. All right. Number four number four. Vice I liked vices sitting at sixty four percent rotten tomatoes, very divide divisive. Very divisive. But give me a divisive movie any day over some just boring slog, like the king's speech or The English Patient. I don't want one. Everyone agrees is good. And it's boring. I'll take one this divisive that people on both sides. What is vice Feis is the Christian bale, but we replay Dick Cheney. Oh. I should've said that. I know I know I it's there's the docu series planned and there's the bench vice and every time someone says vice I always think about the docu series your drugs or something like that. And then forget to get back to that. In theaters now is wrecked by Adam McKay written and directed. He did the big short which I liked better. This does not have the driving through line. The driving narrative of the big short. But this does have a lot of the things that made the big short awesome in my mind. Which is it does very creative. Interesting storytelling techniques. I don't want to give too much away. But at one point credits roll where Credit's should not role. And it's like, oh, wouldn't that be great? If that was the end of the movie, it takes those kinds of chances some work some don't at this at number four. I enjoy this movie. I didn't like the way you enjoyed the big short, which was amazing very much. So and I've seen a lot of criticism. A lot of criticism that says. As you can imagine why this movie's divisive. It takes very, you know, point of has a strong point of view on Dick Cheney and where he's history it. I've seen a lot of criticism like points Dick Cheney as a cartoon villain. Dick Cheney is cartoon villain. Like if you're casting a thirty second Super Bowl ad for like, and there's a car there's a partner says like sleazy manager. You're like gimme a Ron Perlman type. Right. You're like if there's one called evil politician. Gimme a Dick Cheney type v he's a human trope for evil politician. I think it does a pretty good job humanizing. It goes into great depth over his relationship with his lesbian daughter at her coming out to him and how he supported her in when he ran for vice president he told George W Bush like this. I know this goes against the platform. This is important to me. And that is the line drawn cement like he is by all accounts, the trope of the evil politician make an air quotes. But the movie does a good job of going over other aspects of and it's funny, and it's funny chances. It's not boring numb. Three number two. Oh, sorry. Number two, number two Bumblebee bumblebees here sprays. So like ninety seven three percent on crazy how highs. See Bubby, you're missing out. I can understand you've been burned by transform move. Your five. Ninety three percent. It's every night hoped. The original transformers, and I liked the original transformed. This is it's set nights seven. It's it's it's fun. It has the original trying to. Wow. The rich was great this. What has its? It's it's less for kids. Somehow, even though it's a little more. It's well done. It's in the spirit of Pixar movies. Now, let's go to Pixar movies. But it's very good. Gino is Haley Steinfeld. Great. I did not know turn till the credits were really, I didn't know. I didn't know I could use a little more true grit with our I I enjoy that movie doesn't pop up enough for me. I Jeff bridges, and whomever. Mr. b b for whatever, you know. Matt Matt Damon Matt Damon. Of the booth the beef, whatever, but I liked the movie lot. Used to watch it with sunny, if you get a screener abet for ill, certainly I would imagine for best special effects and things like that. But anyway, very good movie by number one movie that I saw in the in the last two months won best animated feature at the Golden Globes. Spiderman into the spider. I hear. That's why. And also wildly surprising. I into this Christ. And other Spiderman movie we're doing this again it, okay? So it's sort of like Thor ragnarok beats the LEGO movie because on the one end you have where are they going to go with this franchise work hand, they go they've done everything. So many times they've repeated the same story, and they have fun with. All right, one more time forever. And they just get it out of the way and like a thirty second intro. And it's also like the leg, I'm very like, this is not going to be how can they make this animated this? This is directed this red flag, number one three directors. Wow. Bob Paris Getty. Peter Ramsey and Roddy Rothman and five producers, and I was like men too many cooks in the kitchen. This is not going to be it blew my mind. Ninety seven percent, I'm gonna make bold bold call here. This wins the Oscar for best animated feature since two seven Pixar or Disney every Oscar except for one. Rango one in twenty eleven I think there's all Disney Pixar fatigue, and the Disney Pixar offerings or not that strong this year Reckitt Ralph and credible to their fine. But they're not strong contenders. Couple sequels, I think this wins. This is a fun, please watch us with sunny, and or an Italian have that sort of dead pool. Humor a little bit. If PG maybe a little breaking the fourth wall little effect, the best part about this movie. So the idea the Genesis of this movie, the story is there's a whole bunch of Spiderman comic books, I guess. I don't know that it's a whole bunch of them. The idea. This is like what if every Spiderman thought they were the only Spiderman and then like some event brought them altogether some supernatural then. And now, they're all like, oh, there's more Spiderman let's evil together. It's I heard it was great. It's super well done. It's still in theaters now, so guys please do yourself a favor and see it see Bumblebee too. But definitely see Spider-Man number one movie last two months. By Sony and Columbia. All right. Let me tell you about. Thank you bowl. The let me tell you about men when a healthy new year inside every med, man. As a way to meet more your two thousand nineteen resolutions looking to get fit. Yes. I skipped one. All right. All right. I wanna get some energizing edibles before you run or soothing CBD paint. Stick after do you run or resolve to relax a little more and easier Zion premium products for med men. Visit a store near you. They have knowledgeable in store team members, including house pharmacists at medical stores. And they'll make sure you find the product you need easy to understand instructions for using it go to madman com. Find a store near you at men that is mad men dot com. Find a store near you. Right. Dawson men's resolution for twenty nine hundred helping to drop the labels for cannabis users use code Adam Corolla checkout to get ten percent off your purchase. Visit a today. Limit one per customer. Terms and conditions apply. Keep out of reach of children for use only by twenty one years of age and older. I thought you missed one between four and exactly right number three for me. And it's actually kind of apropos because it is the most by the numbers movie you could. Forget about it. The winner for best picture comedy the Golden Globes. Green book green book, number three. It's very good. It's by the numbers. It's you see the trailer. You know, exactly what it's going to be. But. Okay. We have a clip let's play a short clip from green book, this is one of the early interactions. So the story is become Mortenson who's great nominated for best actor, golden gloves. He plays mafioso enforcer type and he's hired. He's a bouncer enforce type of the mafia, and he is hired by a black musician whose going pianist who's going to travel the deep south, and he he's Muslim. He's gotta drive protect them. And this is an early interaction. They have is they stop off the road at a diner on their way to Pittsburgh for the first show. This is this a buddy movie, it's a road trip movies odd couple movie, you get the idea with this clip, how they interact basic going soon as we expect to get to Pittsburgh. When I was in the army, I know a guy from Pittsburgh. sepT call tits. Berg said all the women had that's. That's absurd. Women in Pittsburgh have larger breasts and say women in New York. We'll find out. It's hits every note correctly. It's by the numbers, but it's enjoyable and worth seeing something bizarre piece of trivia that I can't wrap my head around don't understand but love Carmine Looper Tozzi in the sopranos the New York mob boss for the first four or five seasons. Apparently, the guy who played Carmine is based on that character that Vigo Mortenson he car the guys the guy we'll store random and weird is that. All right. We shall take ourselves a quick break. We'll come back, and we're going to do news break and then news right after this. Hey, this is seventy wilder Taylor and Lynette Corolla, and we're for crying out loud. Listen to our show because there's lots of swearing lots of stories, lots of personal information that you don't really need to know. But we tell you anyway. So check us out on I tunes and one for crying out loud wind that role and Stephanie wilder to every Tuesday and Friday at digital podcast one podcasts. Let me tell you without Pete who loved hockey and always wanted to play in the NHL Pete played since he was three and begged his mom to let him stay on the ice by some nights. He even slept in his hockey skates. Pete practiced and practiced until one day when he was forty seven Pete realized he just wasn't that good. So he threw his skates in the trash. But then you heard how gyco proud partner of NHL good save money on car insurance. So he switched and saved a bunch. So it all worked out missing teen is back home. I'm Tim Maguire AP news minute thirteen year old Jamie cloth of -ducted last October from her Wisconsin home after her parents were killed has been reunited with relatives in Barron. Wisconsin Barron county sheriff Chris FitzGerald says the twenty one year old Jake Paterson had no known contact with the clause family before the attack. We don't believe there was a social media connection. And we're determining how he. Became aware of Jamie. The girl escaped yesterday from the cabin where she had been held in a rule area near the town of Gordon at some sixty miles from Barron Patterson as a court appearance on Monday, partial government, shutdown likely to be the longest and US history. President Trump's softens is pushed issue an emergency declaration to take the wall funding issue out of the hands or congress right to do it. But I'm not gonna do it so fast because this is something congress should do some eight hundred thousand federal workers are affected by the shutdown. I'm Tim Maguire.

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