20 Episode results for "Hetman"
Never Rarely Sometimes Always with Director Eliza Hittman and Greta Gerwig (Ep. 282)
"You know for me you know. It's not dark on brother film like we're not making this one rigorous choice to be hand held and to stage each scene in one long. Take the language depend. You know it depends on the moments low and welcome back to the directors cut brought to you by the directors of america. Today's episode takes us behind the scenes of director elisa. Hickman's new drama. Never rarely sometimes always the film tells the story of autumn and schuyler cousins and inseparable. Best friends were navigating adolescence in rural pennsylvania when autumn finds herself pregnant and hemmed in by conservative legislation. The do aboard a bus out for new york to find the help she needs. In addition to never rarely sometimes always miss hickman's direct. Oreo credits include the feature films. It felt like love and beach rats and episodes of thirteen reasons. Why and high maintenance ms hetman spoke with director fretted gerwig about filming never riley sometimes always in front of a virtual audience. Listening for their spoiler failed. Conversation I'm so happy to be here with you doing this. I wish we were in in person. a beautiful theater But i am thrilled to be here now as i was saying to you This is the last movie. I saw in the movie theaters and i saw the monday before everything stopped and it was such an incredible screening in it was. It's it's such a gorgeous emotional beautiful. I love your film. And i love the actresses in. They were there they were so wonderful. Like everything was like this magical night of Extraordinary film and then. I got to be there with you in this young women and i just am. I glad in some ways because it was just With such a great such a great one and so anyway. If it's the last one it was a great one. So i'm glad to be here with you now I wanted to start with something. That is when i think about your film. It's it's so. I hate the word naturalistic. Because that feels like it's minimizing the skill of it or is it the crafted craftiness of it. Which i know is there. And i think of all these moments that are so perfectly made an tender they feel intimate without ever feeling exploitative of the girls are the moments i think like their hands touching where these tiny daylight these these ways that you are with these women but aren't on top of them and it was wondering as a writer in as a director in with a story like this. Do you start thinking of this film in images or do you start thinking of this film in words. Where does that start for you as a director as well i will just also say thank you for joining this film opened unlike a really dark kind of disastrous moment and human history. In fact that you came out on that is very meaningful An brought a lot of magic to the atmosphere Thank you It's interesting like i think you know in my mind i always knew the kind of spine the selam before i wrote it knew it was going to start in pennsylvania and they knew they were gonna go to new york. I knew like the general structure so there wasn't like a question about like what would happen. Just like in terms of the plot but i did have like strong images that made me excited to write one of the images for me was There's a moment in the film where they wander into an arcade tic tac toe sydney's character autumn. Let's check your chicken and it was like this moment in metaphor for the story. You know that she's trying you know he's playing a game that's rigged this whole system rigged against her now. I start with a lot of those ideas because those are the things that make me excited to direct the movie. And i don't think of myself as a writer in a traditional way for me. Micro-moments moments are what drives the story telling rey Just because it's so It's a beautiful way a shot like when you have this idea of like. Okay get this. You know i have an image of this and i love that. It's great so perfect. Ingrained in the way that in unfolds in the film is in never mapping draws attention to itself to sign post anything. It's like it's part of this fabric of what a this story in this journey this year journey unfolding but i When you then when you're working with cinematographer who's she shot all your films. Yes she shot here. She got to your votes so when you are working together. Do you have a sense of the this. This is the image or is it that you say this is the scene now Then you're figuring out with her. What's the best way to get it. Does that make sense. Because i'm always. I'm i think i'm always fascinated by like essentially what i'm asking is. Are you thinking in pictures constantly thinking in those those images new figure out how to get the picture. Does that make sense I i think am. It's been different for each project. And i think there's something nice about continuing a relationship with cinematographer for that reason because we know what we've done and how but we're making a new film right. I think With regards to the feeling the naturalism inc. Uniform me you know. It's not a dark done brother film like we're not making this one rigorous choice to be hand held and to stage each scene in one long take the language depending you know it depends on the moments and i think you know some places. I have like really specific ideas like in the operating room the camera. There's a scene where she gets the land area inserted and the camera dollies along the table reaches the end and like in places like that. It's very decisive. We're gonna move up to her hand and that we're gonna come back and the the is gonna take off or gloves senate done. Things have really specific in other areas. helen lavar bill. This special rig told me about the special rig what are you doing. Had somebody may get in. And i don't know if it even has a name okay. I love this. It's essentially like the camera is hanging in suspended from cord and This device is able to move so it gives her the ability to sort of float the camera an accurate but it raises her her movements. So it's almost like a league Harsh steady cam. But not but it's between a steady cam in yeezy rig that's cool that's really neat so it can do like a three sixty and she can bring up and down and she has a certain level of control over it but you never feel her movements rate. Yes that makes sense it explained. I think sometimes with things feel we used to thing. I'm i love the dardenne brothers But at but. I know what you mean about some things that it's like it's like it feels intimate without feeling like intrusive in any way which sometimes if it's entirely an held you feel like you can feel the person behind the camera which makes you feel like the people aren't alone like i am i. I'm always. I think the thing you created with these actresses is they do feel very alone in in in the city with each other on that blake they. Don't you feel worried for them. In in in their aloneness and i think it must be part of the way the camera moves it. You don't feel like but there's a person they're standing with a lake. It feels Daily says this device that she made kind of allows for the camera to move fluidly and leave but with no shake of a person and readjusting and moving. I don't know it created like a very like Cam character moded motivated movement throughout the film. That is more delicate than it would have been On an easy. Rigor handheld is for How does that mean does that. Having that ability with the camera does that influence the way you think about blocking in terms of giving your actors freedom or do you are you how do you how do all of us freedom because it allows the actor to move more without her having to sort of chase and i can kind of stand next to her and points you can. We can roll the camera. And then i can give her kind of quiet directions about details to catch. You know. Go from her. You know to the chicken back to her. You know and find us movements. You don The character's actions and win so when you're you you. I read a bit about 'em rehearsal process. You went through with your wonderful actresses who are just so did just. They're just so great in your film. And they're just one. I i don't i i feel actual Extra emotional about them because they got to meet them but they but you have. You had a short rehearsal time with just the two of them. It was a couple of days to build this end did you were you did you. Would you rehearse with them on location or did you. did you say what. We'll get there when we get there. How was yeah you. You've made so many independent films you know that like you know. There's so limited time you have all of this like this important process. I don't know. I feel like as director. I'm not a magician. You know. I can't just make those performances in the movie happen. Without a real process you have to find vegas to carve it out for yourself otherwise it gets trampled over. Yes and rehearsal is always what goes when they're they're like. Oh you don't need that jewish. Can you imagine doing play a met happening. It would be like no no because it's being you you you have to Yeah with the girls. I i tried to spend two or three days with them and i brought them to my apartment like away from the movie you away from the production and away from a rehearsal space because i just wanted to be us right bending time together and they you know they both had this sort of connection because they're both randomly from buffalo sorta from different sides of the tracks book from the same place and they had things in common that i knew about my terms of their family lives. I bought them each marble notebooks. And i asked them really personal questions about themselves because the way that i right there is not really back stories for actors. I didn't want to because they're young and they haven't done this before like feel their brains with like fake character histories and ships. So i just wanted them to connect in a deep way as young women bryan. Smu's really personal questions about their lives and they have sort of complicated relationships with their fathers. And they both you know our performers in different ways one from dance in for music. And i let them right and just let them be. And i went away and i let them share what was in those journals just together without wonderful you just wanted them to have like a secret history on and that was what was like almost most important. Yeah you know it's funny. You say like says sort of secret history. Because i feel like i feel like so much of a when i worked with actors. Feel your vomits like building almost like you can't be in the secret world that therein together you necessarily as the director needs to be outside of it and i think that what the two women did Was you could really feel it. From through the screen of like entities entities. It gives it that wonderful quality of lake be stuff yudono as director about them which allows you to observe them. which is what. it's a wonderful way to think about it late. Like your state of not knowing is is part of what allows you to capture something. That feels real. That's really neat I i i something I i saw it felt was emotional because they felt it was real because because it israel is a the people she talks to a new york people planned. Parenthood did you capture of the kindness of not could ing their motion onto the moment. It's very moving. How they do their jobs and like the like the way they're not they're not ringing drama to it's almost like it's a combination of a medical professional on therapist and someone who's navigating something delicate with somebody at a delicate moment and it. Just there's something about the like. I'm just asking you these questions and there's nothing that i'm putting on you but we're going to go through them on the neutrality of that as what i just i wondered if it was something. Use were striving for something that you just notice. And that's what you. I know you can't have real Employees in I just it's so it's so moving because there's no emotion put on top of it. Is i guess. What i'm saying and i i don't know if you could speak about that. No and i think you're doing it like a good way of talking about like what i want to achieve. I think neutrality is an important part of it. i'm and it's like It's a state. You know that i work to sort of find I'm set it like weirdly I do have like a weird theater background and like you know. That's part of like jacklyn. Cock and clowning like this idea neutrality. Being able to release a motion and release you know something from within out. That's facet had no idea. That's a great in a it does yet comes from another part of my life. You know in another way of thinking about performance But i yeah. I chose to work with like a real social worker but because it's not a documentary was challenging. Because i wasn't able to show every bit of like what they do. And every bit of the process on. I had to pick and choose being sort of nervous that i can offend planned. Parenthood you in omitting something that was important and especially in that counseling seen So delicate in terms of like the writing of it. And i went back and forth with a counselor over like what she does in real life and tried to marry it with the sensibility of the writing. Which is more stripped back and in performance like trying to get her to ring nuts sort of neutrality. I think the film. The character is navigating so many unsafe spaces throughout journey that by ten. She arrives in that space before the procedure. It was like really important the tone and you now how. She approaches her interacts with her in order to get her to open up but yeah. I don't know if that answers. The phone is a time that i was thinking about. Yeah it does completely. I think it's I think it it. I mean. I guess this is sort of now. Cliche way of saying it. It's it allows the it holds the space for the thing to happen. Doesn't impose anything on top of it just is i mean it's clearly It's such a devastating moment. But i think it's also dividends devastating because you're watching her face in watching her answer these questions. But it's also this realization that probably nobody's ever asked for these questions ever so it's not even the answers. It's the sort of consideration of the question and this is a woman doing her. Her job ended so meaningful because it is considering something. And i think that's it. Just the emotion of the moment is is is layered just because she what she's saying just because she's crying is in any case yet. great great. Well i think also you know. I was careful irish. Trying to be careful. I should say of. Not making the people there to saintly. Yes exactly that's right. That's right yeah. You know the people in pennsylvania not to villainous These gray zones are where the tone of the film labs i think the not saintliness though of of the social worker makes it more emotional for me because it's not it's it's not someone who has angel wings in his perfect who's being sewn and understand it's not that it should woman doing her job and play. It's just it's it's sort of. I think that is the thing and that sort of not It's incredibly you very angry and frustrated at the first woman she talks to but you also sense it. Probably this woman's a true believer so she's it's it's not you know you're like i am anyway. The is this is a very specific thing but the moment with The payment in the hands In that come from this. I mean you don't have to from but yeah well. I think you know i think like you have this gift of like kind of capturing the way people speak in comes from. Improvisation unlike slightly inarticulate. I think late age. Just not confident. In like the way in writing like certain kinds of conversational dialogue and i wanted a moment in the film where they both acknowledged that it would never speak about what happened on the trip together right but it didn't work as a scene like i try sometimes to ride the scene and they're just bad ono unite right class so many things that are bad. I mean when i started writing i would have ever seen start with people saying hi. They'd has ended make by so. I went through a script cutting all of the highs and lows entering and exiting of seeds that every within so so you felt like the didn't work so then that led you to finding something that's behavioral. You're not communicate what they're both feeling. Yeah and also you know there's sort of a motif of like hand holding yes yes thorughout is like a pinky. Swear i was. I was maybe it would seem too immature for their ages in but i just i went with it as a way to communicate that you know the this unspoken on this journey that they'll never talk about you know that you know they're both doing something sort of transgressive on this trip that you know the berry right Re meant to bury it right. Yes yes and the not The hands really do keep coming up in the part of she gets the paycheck or they take the till just like you're like aw i just you a new. She's so capable. I think part of what's ending the wonderful but the Talia is there's something so capable about her and she's so young and i think that's sort of the way you captured someone it's the casting its direction. But the she so young. And she's so is able to navigate the bullshit the world in in a way that You know it's heartbreaking. 'cause you're like thank god she's able to and also. Why does this girl know all this stuff. And i think it did she. Did you when you because you auditioned her sued did she come in with that sort of. It's almost like bullying worldliness. I can't i don't know what it is. Yeah i. I think like what was i. Guess what drew me to tala writer at first you know. Was this sort of levity. Her you know she feels like more useful in a way that the main character has this like crisis. And you have to be able to see that in this other character has to have this levity and this optimism you know Together they create this unit. And i think talia has dance training Which i think somehow contributes to her expressive On scream movements her micro movements but it was also important that she always feel young and not precocious riot by annette. They're able to do it because they're doing together right. That makes sense. And yeah. I think i think it's sort of interesting to sort of think back like like the daily. They're both suggests so much happening quietly inside them on screen that i don't know i it was. It was fun to edit and away because it was like you're documenting thought instead of documenting and covering dialogue. All i keep saying all at one is deduced. Middle cow. She's doing it. It's so wonderful. Imminent imitate you know. It felt like you were documenting. Thought and i was wondering speaking of like takes dailies in editing when you are. Do you have a sense like when you're on set and you have Outside of technical things working focus in all that you have a sense of like. Oh that's the one. I'm going to use and that it's rights or no you don't know you don't know now I think he. I don't know where did you shoot Little women on thirty five. I did yeah. I don't know what the monitor situation is like for shooting on thirty five on sixteen. it's difficult. yes we'll give. You can see what the frame is that. That's it. I remote as is actually there was a there was the first sooner shootings. Some ran up the related. Does it does the shot. Look like this and i was like no no. It doesn't look like bad. It'll be different than they relate but when will we see it now when it's developed it's film but yeah so yeah it's no it's not it's you can see what the framing is and that's about it. Yeah so i. Sometimes i mean i think like with the pivotal scene of the film. We knew it was the first take with other things. It's harder for me to gauge being cut. I think that There you shooting sixteen forces you to not do this. You know forces you to look at the acting at the performances in the actors are acting for you. You're the audience site and look at it. You know when it begins. And i have a sense of you know how it's going in what we need to do it again. But it's hard for me in moment to be like that's it right. Right is the whole thing. And you're not. You're not precise and whenever whenever the script supervisor would ask you. Do you have a favorite pick or favorite tag. Think i know llanelli like any. Sometimes i know but also sometimes like you totally wrong and then you look at the selects later like oh no i was. I was crazy this other one of the really interesting. I mean you said you felt like you had a like you knew The beats of the journey were never in question. Like you kind of have is like i guess. My question goes to editing in working with your editor. Like let me just start with a very basic. Do let them do an assembly or now. yeah. I think because we're shooting on sixteen millimeter and we know it's hard to go back and it's really hard go My strategy is always an to have to editors working from beginning and just like cutting quickly because then you know within than than there is more opportunity to go back for something. If i if i need it. And then like within a couple weeks of wrapping production there is the assembly like a gets me to the assembly much quicker sue when when they're so okay so the the so i a christian is when you when you have them do that. Are there in on this project. Were there times you looked at like certain scenes assembled instead like we need to go get the reverse of the saying On this one yeah. I had a sensor of sort of what the challenges were Or if Like i think the first couple of days are really challenging of anti anjou where everybody is just trying to figure out how to work together as a unit where you're sort of understanding the dynamics and challenges and you know the new performances and just you know adjusting to seeing the movie that you've been working on right i i don't remember if there is anything specific that we had to go back for but there were. I realized very early on that. I had too much set up in the story which happens all the time on. Yes much. world building like I told her. I empathize. Because i feel like it's yours laying on this stuff out. Realize audiences are so smart and they picked up everything you needed to tell them one second. And you're like oh yes you're on board. We don't why are we spending all this time being by care where her mother works doesn't matter. Yeah so i think very quickly. I realized like how reductive the whole process is going to be in how much we don't need right right into. Were you trying to shoot in order. Not entirely in order but i try and preserve like the general emotional structure of the film. Yes do. I don't know if you had the same ad but you work with your ad about a schedule. That i mean. I know Jonas i like he's so he's so emotionally attuned. I feel like having an emotionally. Attuned ideas like lifesaving yet. It's the key to a successful movie is really incredible. Ad who will work with you to protect and prioritize the performances right. Because you know like what. You're saying like You can't have you know you're gonna have to do some things that aren't pristine or exactly how you want them. Banking with you when you're working with a grey d it's like well yes but we can do this or we can end the day here. And you're like okay while the that'll be that's the right arc and i think it's it's an aspect of Being in a d. That i think is just i. I can't i don't there's not enough. I can say that talk about how much evaluate so that that you you have the same. Yeah the key. Yeah i think to sort of unlocking really great performances. Okay now now have to go back to the assembly thing because so then when you watch the assembly wanna throw up like it's great now. I am really hard on myself. i'm not. I'm not nice to myself so it's very challenging process. I always think i blew it. My my life partner is editor. Oh nice though. His name is scott. Cummings and he's edited all my movies and so we have to sit in this very intimate space where he watches me torture myself has delight be a real cheerleader. And you know say you didn't stop. It's on focused on the work. You did not be great and we know we we go through it. And yeah like i knew i think this project i knew i needed a few reshoots and i tried to sort of work really quickly to assemble the cut so that i could go back really quickly beg for a few reshoots and what would the reshoots you need. What what parts were reshoots. There was you know one performance. That i wasn't so i felt maybe tips a little bit into that evil zone that we were trying to avoid because i didn't get to have the time unfortunately to work with the day players. That was the challenge. And i know for the next film. You know that. I need you know to prioritize because i got to rehearse three days the sydney and talia. But i really didn't with anybody else right and did you cast off of tape surgeon. You snap apes and it's not you know the fall of the actor in any way it's the fault of the process. Yes yes so. I didn't want you know somebody in that clinic. In pennsylvania the center clinic to feel to militia in a subtle way in just ideally. I felt that i needed to go back. Yes but i feel like this. This movie i mean it really does live in these 'ambiguities and i if it's not ambiguous. It's like so that makes total It makes perfect sense to me. That would feel like even if it was just like one degree too much. This way you might be like. It's like fox. Yeah fall like ruin the souffle somehow or like Win it. i'm mattress the voice that you're running. You know. i know what you mean city bra. This really sincere performance that It takes other people time to get to that place and sometimes it felt like she was so sincere that it was easy to make them feel just a slight bit. And it's also hard. I think like you're saying if someone I always because. I you know as an actor on is an actor when i've had situations where i've come in for like a day on something two days in there's like a thing set up it's like there's always overcome as an actor to Because you're sort of like is this. I don't know you guys are. You guys have been doing ascend I think it what you're saying about like the less Something you wanna take with us working with new day players. And i think that's really smart because i think it is on its lake. That's i always think about how they're certain whenever i watch movies like the little parts. Great like that's just one of the biggest back performance Years was one of them. So like if you you really good you you got it as specific as you did because it is the thing that makes it all kind of live and feel convincing in real Speaking of sydney has just so great winter Thinking about is the way. The movie begins with her performing Shoot i were. Did you shoot at lane. shut it later. We'll it later. I had a couple. I had like four days. I don't remember how many in pennsylvania very limited. Louis i do like street shooting. I like not like exterior work. And it's interesting you like. I tried to you because sydney had never acted in a film before. I try to put stuff. I knew could be cut on the first couple of days. So why take me shotson things. Just build up her confidence. We shot the supermarket. 'cause they felt like that was it had everything i needed was in that supermarket in pennsylvania and i didn't think we would be able to find it anywhere in the in the new york area and then the rest we kind of had done. We moved to yonkers and did her house and the high school we had to shoot actually in new york and it was something that i was really worried about because i didn't want the extra you know the audience to feel new york. I didn't unstaged to feel like new york city theater kids. You know challenge gang. We did it. I would say like week two or something but so still in the first half of the shoot you now. I love sort of that. That introductions. Her of her have performed performing again It's another moment for me. So unbelievably heartbreaking in her in her performance is that kind of the her in the her. That's doing it. This kind of and i wondered if it was a. Was that always the way you knew you wanted to introduce. Her is did it. Come out of Talking with her I think it was there. Were two impulses like was that. I've met sydney at a young like when she was fourteen and had been kind of tracking her on facebook and she posted a lot of videos of herself singing so it was something. I always thought about in connection to the character. But there's this. There's this great ken loach film called lady bird lady bird with the woman singing karaoke rights like this really sad song and approaches her at a bar and says like whether you have to be so sad about that it was. Such beautiful beginning was sort of filtered into my thinking for this film but also in connection with the real sydney and her singing sad songs and putting them on facebook right Beautiful combination of the film film nerd in real life in notes. That beautiful beginning. It's a great thing introduction You make it's her exhibiting ask just to. She is but some some ambition. Some real ambition in a way. She's kind of embarrassed about but she's doing in you. Just feel like that's the girl you wanna make sure she's has access to all the the in you know. I don't know i it just is it's so what is so many moment i feel like when she gets the a you have this. I mean i had very ahead I felt a lot of relief for her in the obviously at the end of the movie. But it just felt like a she can She'll sing another sad song on a terrible stage in manhattan people not understand. What a wonderful thing and not that you wouldn't be able to do the lake. It's like she is she. Don't know it just it like to start there. I feel like it it. Just it just gives you some some window into. She's going to keep going. Like i want her to a little little bit. Yes yeah that's what i wanted. It was obviously a way to introduce us to the town. Like the contacts that its highest skoll. I was always forced to do like fifties talent shows. And i was thinking how playing with misdirection. You know like confusing the audience. That may be this movie set in the fifty users just like a romanticized idea of this country in the fifties but it also giving her a little strength. It's not philmont is such a hard journey. We have to know she can get through it. Yes yes in. Iran's get showed that she has a little perseverance to push through this moment of shame and humiliation of this performance right and the issues going to do it. It does it makes you feel i think without it might might Gives it something that's not gives it a little something that's not league or not it's like a little and then you feel like when you get through it. It's not like somehow i. It somehow gives it something where you know when you get to the end. It's it's going to be. It's not that it's okay but it it really perfectly positions you go on this. This This epic epic journey with her. And i really loved it. So i'm so so fun to talk to you. And i i could do it for a long time because i m so interested. In the two editors in the assembly in the ring in the whole that's worth snake ended You know it's it's also such a pleasure because they've been something. I get to see the movies directing assuming everybody does allow so mike nichols says it's like sex like how's everybody else doing it but painting to eat it was nice to reconnect. Yes you after this. Epoch year yes. I also really hoped that the next time i see maybe we'll go to the movies Thanks for listening to another. Dj qna if you'd like to hear more. The director's cut is available. Wherever you listen to podcasts. Stay tuned in the coming weeks as we bring you discussions of films from sam levenson. Miranda july can david venture and be sure to subscribe rate and review. We'd love to hear your feedback and you can help fellow film buffs find the show. Thanks again. listen we'll see you. next time. Despite cast is produced by the directors guild of america music. is dan wally.
The New Space Industry (With German Grimaldo) Ep #28
"Automated podcast hey there. I'm mark for bank off and welcome to another interview. Focus podcast on automated a hope that you're still doing well. And of course stained safe during this crazy. Pandemic that world experiencing so over the course of the podcast. I've talked a lot about automation jobs on earth but as the world has suddenly kind of frozen and come to a stop. I thought it might be an idea to look a little bit further today. So over the past several years we've been hearing about these larger and well-known space businesses like spacex or blue origin with the goals of pushing our species out past our planet so this new space industry might actually be the next great frontier where many people could find new jobs as new businesses constantly open up so to discuss this and other space related topics. I have a discussion with headman. Grimaldo on the podcast today. So Herrmann is the CO founder and chief technical officer of Asgard Space and they are a barcelona-based startup which is part of the growing new space industry and looks to improve satellite tracking across the orbit of Earth. So hetman has a background as a telecommunications engineer from the Polytechnic University of Catalonia and has worked in both research and Industry for several years so I think that had been has a number of really interesting things to say on the topic of the new space industry. I hope that you find it as well. Especially as it's a nice break from all the discussion of covert nineteen all right so I am here with a header. Man How's it? How's it going in the lockdown in Barcelona? Good afternoon mark well Sofara sustain as we can. I think it's a common common occurrence to restrain the well we're a start-up we have good luck adapting yourself to the nation over terrific. Yeah well thanks for. Thanks for coming onto the PODCAST and Yeah what why? Don't we start off with talking about your startup? So one of the reasons I wanted to bring you on because You work in the space industry and I think that this is kind of a very interesting industry especially in the last ten years or so. It's been it's been transforming But why don't you talk about As guards space and it's Tracking were advanced means of tracking satellites. Absolutely thank you very much mark I think it's very. It's very interesting topic to speak about the Space Industry. But also the automation comes within on my the startup. I work it. It's about orbit determination. So we started the space on. We're trying to bring it to the Mar. A new solution or high accuracy on high satellite rocky so Cole. How is the outcome we are? Where do I start up? It's it's that me on. My calendar were seems bar longtime all. We wanted to be in trouble nurse on. We wanted to live in technology. Ram At we at we get snow. We are voting veneers. We met at the university doing some research in radar radio frequency JEREM electronics. On of course in a special way hoped to detect satellites confront satellites. It happened My longer in the work on who we have with this with this knowledge on this analogy but was not prepared for the market. It was mostly something scientific. We wanted to find out whether it has any remarkable stability or not. That's how we went to one of the biggest Space Industry actors of Spain last if wetter or products or technology that will that have any any market nights at all. We were very surprised to know that it was very necessary technology on. We were surprised at how eager they were to to bring this technology to esab ration- for that we can back to our CELONA. As this company was located in Madrid on we found out that order techniques used for orbit determination had several robots. That's how we that's how we didn't think twice we. We found it Adler space kind of started with working hundred percent of the time to bring the solution to the markets. That's that's awesome and I think that was about two years ago right exactly alike already one more than one half years right right and specifically what does the what does the technology using do. Is it just a more reliable or more accurate ability to track the the live sidelights? That are In orbit around the Earth. Absolutely what we use is some technique called in the early that it is basic- on listening sooner radiation. That satellites meets that satellite derived. Yates so how come. We're usually technology the fact that we're not the first ones on us is very long. Time Ago NASA for example bribes to use it successfully truck satellites As have tried to use it I think one company won the Spanish speaker. All of us it on they they use it somewhat successfully but thing is that most Inter Roma as they are created they use the phase difference of the signal to get a Nongo at the end regarding. This is this. Of course. It works Kulik but it has severly mutations. What we have done is a special architect or that works under the same principles before Using special techniques and the special car were unsolved. Were we can get the seeks. Sikhs elements of our satellite so we cannot only measure angles. We can measure the complete worby characterize it in a treaty a treaty Basham obtaining this they'd backdrop in other words. We cannot only get one dimension as orders. Do we get pretty mentioned on Okay and what is what is the actual benefit of doing? This is this in order to maybe Help the help guide the satellite to avoid space debris What's what's the ultimate objective of having a better tracking of the satellites of course I would like to do the comparison of space dropping management to aircraft manage When when at the start of the twentieth century there were two planes links it was non necessary to on air traffic management and because there were only explains a nobody will collide with anyone besides that the market for maybe playing where very military oriented or very specific oriented. Something produce something specific. Not everyone will travel by bike lane we can. We can imagine that right now. That will be an also. Everybody needs spare aerospace property manage. We need to know where all the planes are. Worthy are going who they are on. Not only trusting that airplanes communicate where they are they are. We also have to control that in Brown coronary this down with Radars and ordered a piece in the same way satellite industries passing through the same evolution so that that means that we need to know who is launching satellites where south lights are on course to whom they believed that thing is that in the Space Industry Dawson happens. Everyone launches their satellites on. Everyone has their motives of defending where they are. Besides regarding that this Are Very poor. In some way either sound is wild west space. For what what we want to introduce you to come help regulators. Of course get to know what? The satellites are. But also for the operates or satellite BURRITOS. Are they owners of satellites? Do precisely find where they are. Not only that. We are a tool that can have to win satellite as old satellites. Do Serbis the comparison and some techniques can only can only attacks our lights for example as if I speak about or biggest competitor though we are. Telescopes can only detect the satellites under specific conditions. Just like when he this night when there is a special winter conditions when there are no for example. There's the rain the wind or when the satellite is passing near the Milky Way. Or some of these. These makes have buried. Be a very big problems to the to the detection on satellite determination on orbit determination ZAPPA. So we're introducing a specific tool to help. Onto onto mitigate the the problems donors are introducing of or they do have when doing this orbit determination on also to eight any saprolite that. It's okay very clear. I think I think one point that I found really interesting. There is your mentioned. This is kind of the space industry is kind of the wild west right now. Does this have anything to do with From what I've been hearing the shift from Public space exploration with a public space industry to a private space industry. It seems to me that You know back sixty years ago when we started launching objects into space this was only possible with public organizations like NASA but nowadays it's mostly dominated by private entities. Is this one of the reasons why This wild west exists absolutely mark as you mentioned. The revitalization of space has a name. It is one of the reasons wire. Why why there is undergoing these so many changes I need. There's going to be need of additional rules on waste regulated space so as you pretty much mentioned in the past. The launching a satellite was a very costly labor as it is something that only view agencies of the work or view of the world will do in mainly Soviet Union and the United States. Let's say years ago. The fact lease that it is true that BAC space is still remaining largely governmental because even though there are many many boys has many organizations in the. That's right at that. Space remains are some neutral ground on non-militarized wrong is inevitable to become a bit less awesome. Because it has some some characteristic resources has some heuristic of knowledge resources alert at that it is constant Bachchan Berry Berry wide field affect glacial in the sense. We I can't read. I just spread some some new some days ago. That United States less thinking on liberalising Space a in the sense of giving more freedom to private companies into space. Note that I would like to mention that space currently as it is legally a bounce Word it is not Us As something that private companies can get. We're supposedly countries themselves are responsive or what happens in the space so imagine that I launch satellite from Spain on it. Crashes Daughter satellite from anywhere in this sense bay responsible or for this or this apple. Spang even though they had no idea who they are or they didn't have don't have anything to do with us because his face is currently assigned the only two states. Of course this. This is something that will never happen because I note acolytes launching. Spain unstained will not allow that. I guess you can see how old is overly confident. We hope that in the next in the next or we see that in the next year. The Satellite Bay space space operations to be more open to the scene that not only now only big companies are multi meal on Bunnies or big companies can launch into space also small layers on ultra small player. We want to help Worse Okay. That's that's very interesting. This also fits into kind of what I've been reading about quite a bit. Is that The the amount of space debris that currently is in orbit around the planet is actually insane. I read something that there's even over one hundred million little bits of paint and plastic etc veteran orbit around Around the earth so I would only assume that this this opening up of space to the private companies would only exacerbate this And I'm assuming it's quite a quite a big problem for the for the satellites that are out there absolutely absolutely base indeed. Our problem right now on there are some runs for example at principally public from East Asia for example are trying to seek techniques older mitigate space in Greece on the east. That spacey brees Is Something. It's a problem. It's like another funding. The Room sometimes in the space industry if something very important but it's not as space belongs to. Everyone is minor everyone no one on the same time if this like international waters international waters. There's international water there. Lots of the breeze on plastics. On rush that must be clean. Abc interests of cleaning all bad for everyone who is going to pay or cleaning this. This debris international water base is exactly the same. There is a very big responsibility. In order to mitigate this order ordered digress from getting created new regulations on a strobe regulations must be must be done hooper nationally. Where expecting that the Horse Espace gets a privatized in the sense of companies. Tunnel Break Breeder Butts. There could be better on bigger regulations for these private entities that want to launch something into space to avoid increasing spacing. Reese maybe I can take a step back here. So why exactly is it that that Private entities have been able. It seems like only in the last ten years or so Why have they now been able to Launch satellites and rockets into into space. Is it because the technology has gotten so much better and so much cheaper over the last sixty years or is it? Is it something that I'm missing? Well I think it could be attributed to many factors first of all. We know that there has been a very trent Probably has being has been discharged because be an Air Sunday other sides of the world's or will of something worked with or station. Lana you mentioned We see that for example loss. It's very very relevant naming the spacing. The freaking was very successful in representing the fast. And then he he was a very he was. He always said he was very motivated or space. Uneven has plans with currently connectivity to other world on to give Humanity Morris. There is not only this. This this Influence base Thurs also for example. The founder of Amazon's. Jeff bezos is notre be passed a some vision about the space on also this. This third layered On a lot of investments in the space cold reach our brands So besides this this burger joints or let's say in the world of nausea that they have shown Berry Berry much militant of the ownership world. And they want to translate into the Space Industry. We have recently seen that Nations or well not recently but in the last day it's issues like China. India and on many orders are are able to not only bring satellites with the help of the United States or maybe Russia that were typically launching company. They the launching abilities but they are also starting up their own acid fluid. So we're seeing the act. It is true that in the past it was very expensive and very difficult because it was new technology as it gets more major on. We see that there's more industrial capacity on there is more necessity that on to use that space Space Industry on Ebay typically gets more important sowing the in the in the in the knotter underway a we can see stat data. We learn in the last year that that from other industries is burying So sometimes it it so important that it costs more or did that has more value than some companies themselves or data is the only biggest assets companies that happens in the same way into space is facing so much that a very much a aired observation on TV from navigation from many order appliances that could that could access a new markets. So in this way that's one of the reasons why spacing loosely has gotten so much of it in the last years. Okay so maybe this is. The seems to be the trend that was continuing. Not Maybe up until twenty twenty Now that we're kind of in a you know current virus era. How do you think how do you? How do you think the Corona virus is going to change the space industry to do you think it'll it'll be massively transformed or will the space industry benefit from the coronavirus and the economic situations. What are your thoughts on that? It is difficult to tell mark Because the corona virus is yet. We're currently it's like something that may be has not happened a while ago. So we analyze of spacing but absolutely we have already seen some of their ex that they are not alien to the Space Industry. We have seen that for example some companies that were expecting on the bigger fight Failed to get some funding us by now because of the virus they say something that not only has at the space industry but have some Some President Ahmad some some change of plans One thing that we will absolutely say. Is that automation absolutely Albury Morris celebrate trend in the space industry rather than before as I would like to Lynch wise these space industry as right now have a big A big hole in the sense of how to control on hold with underwrite some procedures for example. Some there has been some event in which there have been some probability of collisions between two between two spacecraft or became dirt on the way off of avoiding this this crashes is by email so for example that yes absolutely crazy so my my thoughts on the space industries. You know one of the more high tech industries out there. I think you're bursting that little bubble absolutely I mean they're things that are very high tech what some processes are is stolen. H H at technology for Temple. So some golder was the. Si space event in which they have some property of crushing on East Hustle. Maneuver one of their satellites northern not crashing the spaces. There's this comes from many many problems first of all that everything is basically babies because one of the reasons is because we'll be targeted directly determined so they cannot be ready measured. It is There is no trestle less stressful. Winning the when it is necessary to maneuver on winning so That's why for example someone on his face. The second one is that there is no sharing of information so if it has one spacecraft dose shares the location of these spacecraft orbiting. Good wheeled water at sanctions. If he's not like something forcibly or Berry goodest under isis aerospace as I or Commented on the third one is of course. The way of the Asian is addresses the fact that it is owned by email or that they have to email them that it is going to crash timeworn. Some days ahead it shows that hordes many things have to have improved. And where comes out to Mason in that we know that first hand There are many working in automation doing station. On all the things that will be easily avoided or example orbiting maneuvering. There could be a machine learning order or other techniques that will help the communication between Nagy's or any way over the holiday formation is protected but also everything is known. So they don't have to do. This is a very basic communication. The second day was thunder. Ice On to maybe Do better standards on how to manage this. Prohibition is as we know everything is going to be continuing on eighty because nothing is and don't Moan the less From the help of machine learning this will be our the operation. Of course there could be learned how to do it correctly. When aren't the properties of weather Which Fresco Dude this space for must maneuver? When are than what are they ought or whether the acts on the bass pro life because all the space field until your work improperly or at least not be awesome? B satellite is on cases of unity operated. It seems like maybe this. This corona virus era is enabling the the automation of different processes with all of our current Corentin lockdown situations and. I think that the future of this is going to be still a social distancing Will have a large part to play. Do you think that more automation in the actual exploration of of space will will continue? Will THAT BE? Maybe I I think it's already trend but do you think that it will be. Maybe even increased as time goes on because humans won't really be able to interact to the level that we have before Absolutely I think in the sense that automation as as we have seen it It's probably going to be a chore. Mark about the actions are unconcerned. Matter but we have read in the five years. I think most things or many things that we know they are going to be out so much ice array of course a space exploration in the sense of scientific missions It's going to have some participation in that absolutely shore. For example there has been some mission to to to Rosetta. Maybe any listeners can have no this mission from Asia that they launch it off to go to are unavailable one of the comments on the Solar System the Genetic Asi Medical Coma The thing is that when they did a very wonderful job. Catching off this this This orbiting object on also setting up all of the Imogen on studies other from assertion on everyday problem came when they said one of their small one of his artistic space from the pack to land on their on metro. There was some error with the harp supposed to catch Onto the to the mayor of course even Land Wary Pat Lam because of this relation for example in this way will cool half who have held a bit more in order public displeasure legal have the tag at Oracle adapted towards these new. She tuition Do they adequate maneuvered so it stays on the net and so I think yes tournament systems in this way number? Sorry Automation Moral onus Gardening space regarding commercial space. They are going to face on or citing corona virus showing that many personally must work from old they can go to the command centers also senators or specific things. Onsides will the furtively assemble rate? They they basically yeah. I think it's really interesting to see because we we also see that High degrees of automation or being I mean certainly implemented but I would say even fast forwarded in other industries like the the retail Even driving now because we don't We don't have that opportunity to to be outdoors anymore Also in the supply chains and and many others I always think it's really interesting to see how an event or a crisis like this might fast forward other industries that were not necessarily Thinking of day to day So thanks thanks for maybe showcasing a little bit to how automation or a autonomous systems might be used in the in the space industry in the future. One of the other questions that I have for you is so we see that. There's about a million jobs within the space industry today across the world as this kind of new space economy right. The moving from public to private industry is growing And with that the vast vast number of jobs gross with it do you think that maybe the the automation practices or Thomas Systems in the space industry will lead to more jobs or less jobs for the space industry saying like ten years time tame gears time while you just have a Tie Star. Mark I will say that very much of processes that are running in this space not space change of value I will say that very likely that some jobs or arm of we really want. What is difficult for me to tell you this? Which kind of war of jobs are going to be graded in this chain of this Abib inevitable is that software processes we chart many that data collection on earth Space must be automated. That's something that always going to happen in. All the industries of in the space in the space industry eats probably going to be. It's going to be gone before us. Some quality standards to be Rubio's on the other hand or the production process. Are they own? The value chain that must launch into space that we will be satellite a satellite Factories rocket manful rocket launch ground. Segment all these parks I'm one of these is that they are ardor from automation because they mostly use not necessarily data in data's a service or data as Awale rating as the Superman power or owner physical It's more difficult to to be. We ultimated So Yang this place is probably the. It's going to take anything more to Bod. Absolutely I think automation of it's hard for me to Portel How but I eat reviews some some of the jobs in this area. Yeah Yeah it's I think it's always a bit of a difficult thing to to judge But it's nevertheless an interesting anything very pertinent question to ask especially in kind of a growing industry like Like space so thanks for that Maybe kind of one of the last questions here. Maybe going beyond ten years Space kind of one of the one of the sectors in in our civilization that's very prone to science fiction and kind of esoteric or out their ideas And I think that Elon. Musk has done a really great job of getting. Maybe a generation very enthusiastic about space exploration I think we've always seen space. Exploration is something that's done by human beings However I've read that It's it's very expensive and maybe you have a better. I I D- I grasp on this but it's very expensive inefficient and time consuming to actually send human beings out into space not to mention dangerous. Of course maybe beyond ten years or so. Do you think that the future of space exploration will be done by human beings or do you think it'll be mostly done through these autonomous systems or drones of some sort? Well that's That's very interesting question. Mark of what I think it's It's pretty much what you mentioned. I think spacex ration- is going to be done automatically. It is is through as you mentioned. The human beings are of course. We're not prepared to go into ambiance of space. Even though we have for example in their nationalist space station we are many human smuggling experiments. Air Abyss already noticeable. How difficult it is for all the facts that happens at space makes leaking being rooting Ball Reduction Madison Bone density with sorry most reductions sometimes less visibility me. Sometimes they is are acting fast. Pronounce GETS GET USE IT to see too low. Gravity conditions of they. They will they lose some quality that there is also radiation passing lied banner the Divine Allen Bells which are bailed subrogation. That go around Eric. They are very harmful not only for humans they must oppose it. It must be very protected but nonetheless incomes by into the astronauts space station So yes I think. The comparison automatic Mattie or automation. Muto are much more efficient. What I would like to mention is that of course we know something's of space on. We have visited with Bro. Ups Arabian Order Order Order Planets. They have being ready. Tradition on the Alto may show that the first emissions That were carried out by United States on the Soviet Union to the Manera Mission for example that they landed the off or Venus they were all low or be impossible to send in human. They're on well in regarding the understanding unexplored worlds. There is no way human school could do a better than also ultimat- that Bush's maybe some plants of going to the mall on this avalanche in our legal base there for scientific activities as well as maybe on Mars or maybe small columnists to task on or to carry out scientific test. Absolutely I think they will be visible on better than maybe not nation than some ways. Espace expiration is going to remain completely. Automated terrific. Yeah so if you're if you're interested in getting a job in space in your young There's still hope especially if you want to do some sort of Scientific Research as as you mentioned okay. Great well I see that the time is running out here I WanNa thank you very much for for coming onto the podcast and sharing the information that you did I see that You have the website Asgard Space People can follow you on Lincoln. Maybe you want to Give your information will also put it on the show notes but Just so people can hear it here. Now thank you very much mark for inviting me. Your program is absolutely in Bernie glanton participating on of course anyone any. I think the space industry something. It's going to be very pricing. It is true that Outta mation might ask some some words or some way into getting some of the jobs here on. It destroys that space in the spring on space as we happened in as humankind. It is Berry It's something that we're doing almost for the first time. Only fifty years ago where in the space on recap on infinity before us Ah Stops are science on instagram. Out there on. I absolutely would like to encourage any yogurt sauce. Listening to us to get into the newsroom. Thank you very much mark. Do perfect thanks for coming on. I think that's a great way to end it. Thanks for listening to this week's episode. If you want to support the podcast you can leave a lake or a review on apple podcasts. Or wherever you listen to your podcast if you want to get in touch feel free to do so over twitter or Lincoln by searching for automated podcast on the website automated podcast dot. Org you can leave a comment on any of the episodes. Read the transcripts and look at the sources I use in all of these episodes. They're also blog articles and additional resources and information on this topic and podcast. If you're looking for more see next week. The automated podcast.
58. Joe Galliano Fills In The UKs Family Tree At The Queer Britain Museum
"Welcome to museum archipelago. I'm there. Museum archipelago guides you through the rocky landscape of museums. Each episode is never longer than fifteen minutes. So let's get started sons out the in order to launch museum. It's a long way too expensive process. Who knew this is Joe Galliano, one of the co founders of the queer Britain museum. Heller, Joe Kelley on on the co founder and CEO of quit Britain, the national LGBT key, plus museum of the UK Galliani came up with the idea for a national LGBTQ, plus museum in two thousand seventeen during the fiftieth anniversary of the partial decriminalization of homosexual acts in the UK an anniversary commemorated by cultural heritage institutions across the country. I felt slightly conflicted is none of us, ry was thrones man. None of us route was focused around criminality victim host some sort of Fe familiar, tropes, that we got rolled out. And we start talking about when we saw. Okay. Man lost via missile site itself. Harry tradition where we will we live in a world thankfully, whether it's a rich a wildly diverse says sexualities and gender identities on the left me slightly sad, and also the fact that it was very much hug him on a verse rate of annoyed didn't want did white another fifty years before it was FANG major happening again mobile spatial, we built something momentum of being gathered around that anniversary and that it didn't just fizzled away lost value. The emphasis on the anniversary of legislation could have come from the context of a long history of formal legal repression of male homosexuality in the UK going all the way back to the buggery act of fifteen thirty three. So we had the buggery act, which was introduced on the ice. On behalf of the ice, which was very much around male sexuality, mile same sex attraction police, invest and this'll kind of tight on the books in various fools until onto sixty seven Radi wedding was partially that was that was partially from allies Asian partially from allies, Asian the age of consent was set twenty one where was sixteen for everybody else that points as well prosecutions, absolutely rocketed. So as soon as that in some allowance for people who behave naturally, it was it becomes a big estate, be people with two legislation only focused on male homosexuality, which is, of course, telling it's interesting that those laws were always about men, women would same sex, desire or less rendered invisible in public life of the law. I think there's also if we're talking about muscle of legislation, I think there has been a. Prejudice, which is actually a lot of bounce patriarchy about mayo views of sexuality, and service to who has an active sexuality who has a passive sexuality, and thanks through a lot of portion of history women's sexuality was seen as inservice to male sexuality. And so what would you legislate against them, though? So some stories that when some of the late bills roles to quit Victoria, that they were too embarrassed to actually talk about as being as or anything like that how much truth there is, of course, the focus of queer Britain won't be legislation. But as Galliano's says the laws previously on the books and the increasing number of violent, homophobic, transphobic, attacks in the today have distorted, the country's understanding of itself, and tie directly into the mission of the museum. We've talked about a central. Hubs of be visible globally and within the mainstream will give a message that here is a here's a catalytic space. The will collect stories of his, his, his way of helping grasp on the standing of itself by giving quiz stories that route full place. So got means rice in place books within the culture and also a rightful place place can be there. The word queer has a complicated history. It was synonymous with strange or weird, and was a common slur from that LGBT people activists in the nineteen eighties. We the word and used it as an umbrella term for wide range of sexual orientations and gender identities today, queers and increasingly popular way to identify within the community, but as historical traumas persist, and as the word can still be found in hostile environments. It's important to note that not everyone's in agreement Gagliano, and the queer Britain museum, use the term. I'm as proud self identifier. And as an intentional move away from using the word gay and male homosexuality in general as standing for all identities. The plan is for queer Britain to have a physical space in London opening sometime in the next few years. Although the U K is full of museums. Some of which have queer artifacts and queer stories Gagliano is conscious of how backsliding can happen in legislation and culture, the laws and norms of today, can't guarantee that the future will look the same institutions like museums are part of maintaining today's momentum and can give people who have had their stories told by others a chance to narrate their own history. It was fun. It was fun movements within the museum communities mouth to quit. Spice has made sure of they all kind of announcement stories and say, how can we them three the main, the main of collections Ave, the yet note some places have got further than others? Some obdurate anything. But, but that's really, really good. What are some of the web site, volunteer life, down vote have via night Hughes convincing really good. Museums, LGBT, museums who is as a great, volunteer activists. I think possible fair is the multiple movement forward. Who's being the relies on activists curator's really excited volunteers in it. It doesn't take too many people to leave sites. Elza move somewhere else in the now that's loss. The other thing I think's really Paul is the, the such of Richard. Wildly diverse Sattar stories to tell that those museums never going to be able to tell those stories whereas what we have the ability to do is to create a catalytic, but what we call stories in. We can keep telling different stories which and change the exhibitions will and that'll DT he people convenient control of stories, as well. Whereas actor history, so often, it's been all the people who've told us stories and Galliano is acutely aware that stories are being lost every day about end as well. We also have a digital filled aural history project, which recalling, especially announced about making sure that we, we've got the story of people who with us now he can add into the archives become Paul that. That. H important really that we gather the story is now. Well, well, people can actually talk to us. So that's a really strong focus of the moment. Now in south of understanding where we're going to be headed with the archives. Always is this. We are designing a national survey of museums around the country today. This is the national archives. What we readings through this kind of a proper sentences. What is the nation's HOGAN material that we would think over's LGBT focused so that will mean then the it'll stairs? Where important gaps had we fill gaps. And that's gonna concave is a census wet. See what foes collecting activity when the museum is still an idea what the word museum means is still flexible, in addition to educational exhibits about queer history and culture. The proposed museum is also a place for people to upload their own stories and the whole project serves as an antidote to the psychological damage of transphobic and homophobic, attacks and depression. But museum interesting words net because it comes also. Pitch. And actually, we're talking about something very much broader than just a museum in official sense. They and currently show what a culture values and every good way of being able to understand where we all now on the somehow we go there, and then take them standard and use them to imagine a best of all possible futures new barrels questions who always haven't we get tweeted? We want to be retired should be different every time you come to new van when, when the physical space itself opened water will be looking at a series of Skype characters an awe rolling series of gastritis so that each each Tommy, bring somebody in like you know, what is the story that you need to tell what is the story that hasn't been told material that fit unexplored in other museums archives where able to shine a light phone. Sometimes it'll be about the abstract condition won't that position is going to be bringing line around the block. We can conditions of turning community stories that have been told, for example. So it could be everything from an I'm talking off the top of my head. Right. That's my, but that could be everything from what is Ellen Jones stage, costumes through to what is the quick Bangladeshi experience of bumming in the nineteen fifties, creating a new museum is no small task. But Galliano is ready for the challenge as he goes through the processes collecting and fundraising. He's also focused on building partnerships, his route to creating a robust institution begins with acknowledging that is a bigger project than just one person or one identity many challenges. If you want to look, they're all fascinating and exciting to step up to how do you carry the responsibility to make sure that something that there's such a, an needful? I'm such a desire. Sunny within the LGBT plus communities. How do you carry the weight of the responsibility of having said that you're going to do this, and making sure that you've delivered for those people, you know, or want to create an organization? But if I sat away from it, and the, we've got the right you know, the, there's another person that will be able to take over them, mantle. And so the, the organization isn't about one person but we've created a robust organization that will be able to deliver fabulously. It's my exciting thing I've ever worked till because it's the thing on most. I've never I've never worked for something. I feel so passionately is is important. I've never picked off a project which is. Brilliantly challenging, is this in it scale in the Skype in the scope of all the different stakeholders, the, we need to make sure sort of role close and doing the right things, and, and that we also keep a laser focus on the strategy to make sure that. This episode of museum archipelago is brought to you by the museum studies graduate program at the Corcoran, school of the arts and design at the George Washington University with a graduate degree in museum studies. You'll be quipped to respond to the evolving museum profession by engaging in hands on training in the heart of the nation's museum capital established in nineteen seventy six the program combines academic excellence with access to some of the most celebrated institutions in the world. Thanks to an exceptional faculty of practicing professionals this pioneering program is ranked among the top museum studies programs in the country. The programs affiliations with more than sixty museums and cultural organizations. Enable students to immerse themselves in world class venues as they learn from some of the nation's leading museum professionals students can concentrate in three areas. Collections management, audiences and interpretation or museum management to learn more. Visit go dot GW dot EDU Ford slash museum studies. This has been museum archipelago. You can find show notes and a full transcript of this episode at museum, archipelago dot com. If you liked this episode you can support the show and get some fun benefits like logo stickers and bonus podcast feed by joining club archipelago on patriarch special, thanks to club, archipelagos, newest member and host of the excellent museums in strange places podcast Hannah. Hetman thanks for listening and next time. Bring a friend.
Interview: Road Racing Hero Peter Hickman - Episode #15
"Hello and welcome to the sidelines. podcast ultras bore in the motorsport networks. PODCAST for all things to wheels. I'm your host Louis Dunkin and on this special edition of the tanks was podcast. I'm joined by the dominant force in more Jason Moment. Hetman Pete how you doing. I'm good thank you how are you. I'm very well thank you. We hear more sake alive of course detained for you to say unions afterwards being an incredible edible incredible unprecedented year really. was you know victories. Northwest T to you on the brand new BMW in an amazing week at the Grand Prix where you won all seven races. You know to fill it McCallum's record away from I mean just reflect on this year for us. Yeah it's been it's been a really good. Yeah you know it was. It could have gone either way with the brand new bike that we obviously got very very late. it could. It could have been a disaster. You never really know which way the new bike could go. I was pretty confident that it was going to be a good step forward and fortunately enough it was. You know the bar. It's been and really really good. The teams were awesome as always we lost the Sena through through trial and error. That didn't quite work in favour apart from that really. The the rest of the is actually gone. Really really well We made the showdown again in Bay the only BMW again third year in a row that tomato the showdown we wanted the north west or the brand new by we wanted the TV. The brand new by like say we wanted to those two as well. it's It's been a good geico com account. Really apparently it was a risk right in the new bond even BMW themselves which on a push to use the old by this year especially at the road race in and just because they said look you know inside out you're going to be fascinating straightaway. We don't really know where the new bikes GONNA be. And it was myself and Darren my crew chief who also the team coordinator for the smiths racing team. We push like hell to to make sure we had the new bike because if we didn't you know if we didn't start this year with a new you by next year would be on the back for me. The sooner we got on the back foot and learn what we needed to learn the sooner we could go Fox with it And I'm not ascend wrote the year off so much by cutting went. Look this year will be whatever it will be with a brand new bike. It could be good or it could be bad but even if it's bad we're GONNA learn for next year and the next year won't be bad so you know we. We both kind of pushed for that to happen. Unfortunately for the next hour on the new twenty nineteen. It's been absolutely phenomenal. Apart from that one hiccup we add which was unfortunately in the Sena. It's been pretty oil. We use surprised surprised at just how good despite was stripped. Both because I mean you say it was late. You didn't have that much time before the BA species and started to get to grips with the bake. And then you get to the northwest superstar superstar bike and you're pulling qualifying surprised at just how good it was Yes no I've actually written a pre production model for a while ago And was really impressed with it so I knew that the potential was there already. But you just again you never really know until all comes together say the northwestern I mean. Most people don't know but the Tuesday the first practice the first qualifying the superstock bike only got finished at mid day. We still make. The team was still building the Mike at Midday and we went out two o'clock in the afternoon and straight away. It was Paul only did three laps only did one flying lap and I was poll straight away on a Bronco brand new buyer to bed. The disks on the first you know first lap so it was due to be able to do that. straightaways pretty pretty impressive. Yeah Saturday and of the Super Bake you had to standard engineer. There was no there was very little updates to the bay Komo superbeets and of course I never trickled onto lawton be SPN on the roads and and yet you were still able to be this incredible force the ulcers where it's all about speed I mean that must just be so it bode well for next year and you've got you know the proper engine and the bakes bet more developed. Yeah I mean it just shows you how strong the standard engineers and nothing. That's that's the big thing is too stunned engineers already really really strong so although it standard. It's not standard. Compared to last year is a good step two forwards from last year's so even when we do get superbike engines. They're not going to be that much faster than what we have already. So we're already in a strong position. And you know the the the old standing based bay been running what's called type one. Which is basically superstock SPEC engineer? So it's been blueprint blueprint it. It's all been balanced as far as weights between all the Pistons and come rods and all that were the best of the best but still stock not road biking Jim but it's having said that superstock was on a robot team that was completely standard as it came to us so and that was still as fast as if not faster than everything in the superstock class so be able to be used in a really good job with India's a standard and that's why we've been able to even BSP the front. He's a little bit more difficult to be. We do need a bit more horsepower. especially with me. And I'm not in the smallest right around the great by any means so I could have done with a few a few more ponies for the top end but apart from the actual bikes have been pretty awesome. An of The triple triumph bake came on Lisa Vitamin you remember you telling me that triumph actually win source debate from American bakes up production and not led to those wins. It's not as well and the Ulster as well so so it's been a complete package of obviously with the core of it being this mets team. Yeah absolutely dismissed. Team has done an amazing job for me over the last few years and this year was no exception at all. The six five troop by was was mega. This year is the best been like so we. We have a brand new by right this year. which is the first time about a brand new bike? We'll be right in the two thousand fifteen by Cup two this year so having that new bite definitely made the difference so actually the winner to take and I imagine mush rank up. There is probably the best season you've ever had wasn't that many years years ago the you know you weren't getting a raid and BSP. There was it was it was rock bottom pre image for a racer. No you're here in such a short space. Attainments it's really been an incredible to rise. Yeah twenty four hour baseball right. I went to the North West into the became the first avenue. MANUKA money's ticket right off the back of it and one of the best be race that year all of a sudden and then not really low back. Since you know it's been it's been it's been a really good. I five or six years since two thousand fourteen so I'm looking to be in the position I'm in I'm look into the team I mean and you gotTa make the most of it. When you've got it you stay in West mess team again for night? Shift no surprise to anyone but obviously know with the way the BS BCS is so competitive with Rosanna. So competitive with everyone pretty much the front taking up some sort of you know suck activity. You need more than ever you need that. Continuity Shirley comes news is a massive if thing yeah more more with road races are becoming short circuit riders Coming why well yeah. I mean arrive weekend in weekend out. Pretty much It keeps you really sharp. Also run in the British superbike championship. It's such a high level And I've been doing that kind of writing. Aim for a very long time. Which is why? I'm a lot better at it than the law of the road racing guys you know so it makes makes a big difference. I can bring a lot the experience to the t t into the roads in certain areas. He got quite careful obviously But there's there's a few areas where I can gain on. Oh my rival. Shall we say a few few places where I can Kinda show circuit style a little bit and use the road a bit more in a few places and kind of plan my route Talbot Talbott butter which gains me for an hour. And that's what you need to be able to make the bright looking ahead to next year. Always deans come along a law on a short circuits. David toys taken short circus next year. Davies Raiders de la Zona Roads. You know the usual guys are going to be there. It's getting harder audited absolutely. It's really really good. It's great tabs guys pushing a trying to push along a bit. The we all want to win win is as easy as possible but at the same time it can be quite boring if you just been able to win all the time so I don't believe that maybe we don't well you know what I mean if there's no challenge there there's no there's no sense of achievement and it's great that you guys have come into the show also learn more than learning how to ride a bike faster and really pushed to its limits and then being able to hopefully push me a bit more on the road one of three aggressive not talking the senior because Miko which was an interesting situation. I mean war. I will happen from the raiders perspective because we were told. It's not going to be declared a result raiders. We can't run the race Sundays. Two pats tires and then culpable was later. We got a result through our well. Actually the real estate we can declare results. So what was the situation from the point of view what we were told the same so we were told it was a no result they would just gonNA cancel it all and then in a few hours later someone said No. We're going to have to make a result because we can't run it tomorrow. There was there was a rumor of tires and stuff to be honest. Everyone I didn't know tires you know. And they didn't have to run a twelve lower rates again. It could have just been a five lot rice well. The restart was going to be more than that so everyone had enough tires definitely do a five lap race. You know so that for me that was is a bit bullshit but they didn't they just didn't want to rerun the race. That was the big thing and then they decided to declare it on the second result which which was actually only one a lot. which was the star loud? Yeah just Chinese organizes. What can you say? Couldn't organize a pace open and it's probably the best description but And even into their own roles actually didn't even ring true to their own roles. Because you said Oh oh yeah we've got to declare it from the second result because that's how it is in the car. Well by if you read the result wouldn't have been is what he is. Michael was it was more than graciously. was you know he was telling the organizers the they were completely wrongly needed to give me the race when after the prize ceremony they they gave us the prize money and he actually gave me the prize money I if he made me take give him the second prize money so I actually gave me the first place prize money anyways. Anyone who knows Michael knows how so for him to do that. Is Kinda shows the measure Asia. And also he's he was my boss technically as well him and Faye and I got our agreement was a bonus if I won biting anything for second and these probably the bonus as well so Guy Yeah that really kind of shows you the kind of the kind of measure of him. That sums up road racing for me. is you go to uh-huh championships. GP wherever certainly does low Vigo. There's there's a lot of. There's a lot of entourage. Running around raiders. Really big and all up enrolled raciness wouldn't get anywhere else at sorbet was between rotter in this as almost made the rivalries between the Union Dean and just so much better. Because it's pure if you know I mean I think we all know the risks because there's so much risk in the road race and everyone really really respects it everyone else a lot more. That's not to say there's not risking short-circuit writing. Obviously there is but a risky is a lot less you you know for road race in the risk is massive so everyone who's there will put China Paul on his show and we all have a big respect for each other so regardless of whether you're first last doesn't doesn't really make any difference so I think that that's really why all of us even though we're rivals will tend to get on really well and I'll tell you the pace out of each other and I'm a good good luck you know life's too short off track. Your rise of on soccer has really led to sort of become the figurehead of road racing. Almost is there's been so so much your Norton seems through deals with gas monkey guarantee in America I maidan in the beer and t shirts your own. It's Ah was that Lake from your perspective to have that sort of notoriety. Suppose off track as well as everyone knows. Good you're on track but is the oldest waiter world. This this opened up been opened up to road racing because he is pretty awesome. I don't know if it's because it. Maybe Bush again. I'm looking boy already to be honest. I I know a few people here there and everywhere and same with life in general. It's not what you knows who you know. I've been looking to have some really good contacts and get at some really good press out of it one way or another like you say off track as much as on track so they connection with ice maidens been pretty awesome for myself over the last few years like Richard Rawlins and gas monkey as well. You know good Mike. Big Part of the gas monkey crews in English guys now living in Dallas over there. Uh He's known them since before the famous known him a good few years so it's all yeah just how it's happened. I guess more than breath Time it's great to have the involvement in the interests from from different different aspects and different Different walks of life. Yeah that's because road racing saw misunderstood from people outside of it they see it and you think this is crazy as dangerous and should ban it but then the you put someone like you in front of it and it's just it's just like any other sports just as it is not that different. Yeah it's it's it's this is sports. That's what it is. I guess the only big difference is obviously our sports extremely dangerous whereas most there's an element of danger but not not normally normally life threatening whereas for us is a bit more. There's a bit more risk but for me that's also part of the poll of it a little bit That's that's what makes it more exciting is there. Is that element there and whether you like it or not some point. We're all going to die anyway so why not enjoy it. You know and I really enjoy joyride on the road. I really enjoy right around the It's somewhere way you can remove yourself from modern day life and all the kind on of Stresses I guess of Modern Life. So you can kind of. I'm in my own little bubble. I'm in my own little world and I really enjoy yourself. It's almost like we know two Ed as sport is quite over sanitize the teams E. T. T. and road races almost like the last sort of bastion of true sport. The nor it's not even for the money anymore it for not for the glory. It's purely for the challenge and that must just make it arguably the best form of sport on the planet because it's just pure challenge Alan Jr for someone absolutely. Yeah and I think if you ask any of the ride is all agree with that whether it's the last one around mountain nerine and so far. That's pretty dangerous but it's definitely one of the last that's less sanitizers are good. Were a good way of saying actually Taylor's but yeah you know trying to make it as safe as possible obviously honest you know like a reckless danger. There's everything has been put in place so so. You know the organizers do the utmost absolutely. They're always they're always trying to make it safer as safe as possible but again the whole poll of of our sport and the reason that is so good is because there is that element danger. And that's what makes it exciting. You won't get that reaction of people sign a hedge somewhere on a bar going. Pass it onto ninety mile an hour. Yeah that reaction wouldn't be the same if you go to somewhere like Silverton and you got to sit two hundred yards or three hundred yards from anywhere the blacked-out you're gonNA hang straight. You do one hundred ninety miles an hour but you don't get that sense because you so far back so the wildfire is just not that and that's the reason why so you go to Kabul kudrow parks the most safest place on the planet why it's our most. Mb is the best attended event. All are we it. Why because you can get close to it because you get close to get more atmosphere because you got more atmospheric you can feel incense the speedmen? That's what people one. I think most people are kind of fed up with the whole pc world of everything's GonNa be this safe safe and all the rest of male Renault. Yeah it's just. Yeah there's mortar loses. Its appeal yeah and becomes a job. Then yeah it was nice not just is just just loses this atmosphere. Say how. `Bout you can get within twenty feet in some places of a by doing a good kind of ninety two hundred mile an hour. It's fast you know you go through a whole Benz and the whole bend is Kinda between seventy-nine all the way through it maybe even a little bit more than you can stand within twenty feet of the scoring pass and that that feeling. You get as a spectator always be awesome. Yeah that's why one of the best attended events all year wall zone park. 'cause you can get pretty close to the old parking fast again. It's not safe his trial in in the UK by any means but it's one of the best attended and the reason for that is because of the crowd get atmosphere wasn't ex- Heckman because you've you've done everything on the roads. ESPN was up there. But you know you did cards this year as broadening your horizons not respect something on the radar I love He. He loved to go and do some some more worldwide here there and everywhere but as with sport and especially down to money as much as anything else I I was fortunate enough to get the opportunity from the world who team NASA team. I felt like I did a good job. Qualifying fourth vision. Seventy Rice. One was on a bike. I didn't know eh against well jumping riders so you know more than more than content with that hopefully in the future I get trump's to to do a few more. Thanks very much for your company. And if you had you can follow the tank slappers. PODCASTS on spotify on Google podcastone on apple podcasts. By the forecast. We're back very soon for more to we'll chat until then is a very warm goodbye.
Gefhle zulassen: Warum das Fhlen so wichtig ist! Teil 1 Podcast #63
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Either your mid annandale mid annandale ridden ballad as i leaving violeta's leaving eve at us out in foreshadowing That kinda should for michigan adverse neural machine bata mid annandale the heightened heighten shaded us ford versus china and would soon kanga saddam gang saying but i will note nine. Gamaa does mitch. This gonna get a deal as oh ganz monotone. Deputies against the company gets yoenis jewish foreign and with you on the and holler to const owner and avoid what soon garnish hours tweeden. Tanking uber does two imacs. Somebody heavyweights deal. Max deutsch tinder. Sheet as i invade. Oheka fula the initiative seems to be out eyeless. Agalarov an ambition to art advisor when voters. Oh ganders infant does heist. Does not vocalist does wounded. Leave them disagree. Future hobby off to an pope. Limb once fuel it suits lozenge mitsu vow fatigue from veal and cba industrial geisha. He nine as lincoln on hester volume game. You need to go through an and i in fact lybia casula ashby up and can as a busy few inconvenience from behidn about. Is the anger few anger. Fear gives us all into hiding visit shaft. Sheila lucia answered vast anga few villages. Where contessa she mitch. Xs tiered as new uncut. Come vocal orbi. We asked him hatton by medha via hetman by speaker. Hence and some defeat of matsu sanga vital gave about this so beleagued as angry furious adverse diffuses air slash guy from get donka convict clown put season kyw from tweeden by visiting us on dan form videos and get drunk nine in volume design for a buying a scholarly socialized officers. Also vendor angry feud seig than ones when gig fallaciously marlins unkind bah engaging him admitting dan guns cloud conceiving on gun talk to on a gesellschaft ballooned autism logger by the guns of vitamin shops and kia vita on notice inch pushed influenza. 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'Valentine's Views' podcast: Assessing the state of the 0-3 Giants
"Podcast listeners, we are Amazing Avenue, the SP nation New York site. I'm Chris, McShane, and every week Brian Salvator, and I discussed the current state of the mets automated. Avenue Audio. The show we try to look at the mets from a somewhat logical point of view and not get sucked too deep into panic city. We also answer your emails weekly. Music. Recommendations, and try not to get too frustrated with the team. You can find the show on apple podcast on stitcher on spotify wherever you get your podcasts and let's go mets. Logan giants, fans, and welcome to a new edition of the Valentine's us. Five cast here on Bake View Radio I'm your host Ed Valentine a big blue view. We're coming to you on Tuesday September twenty th, and we're going to talk about the state of the Owen three New York giants, lots of Stereo these days in the fan base calls for Dave gettleman head. Calls for the giants to to draft Trevor Lawrence. All sorts of all sorts of panic in the fan base with the giants at three year to help us sort of figure out the state of the giants. where the giants go from here is Scouting Academy Director Dan Hetman Dan Thank you very much for for coming on with me. To do it. Hey. So Let me. Put it this way ugly start to the season for the giants. Really. Really ugly game on Sunday but. When you stop and think about it. Rookie head coach. The you know off season. On the field, shorten training camp no preseason difficult schedule you know to begin the year should we really have expected? A whole lot different. You know from the giants at at the beginning of Joe Judges Tenure here. To me one of the harder parts is the head coach is one thing to coordinator changes are other ones you're talking about. A. Large. Distinction in my opinion between Becher in some of the previous defensive schemes. And then coming over here to what Patrick Graham Joe are installing. offensively. There's some there's some language differences I think there's a lot of concept of overlap. There's language differences there. I think. The your question fortune for me. I think you do expect that when you have. Enough continuity. In the key position players know you're not on board new quarterback. You're maintaining. A healthy chunk of the offensive line in my opinion, I know gates moving to a new position, but he's He's been playing their most of your defensive linemen in that unit obviously had around for a while now, the Secondary Amis where I have the most kinda leeway in terms of. The expectation versus reality because of all the variants there in the rookie in homes playing bringing bradberry and. Actually trying to draft mckanie inadequacies there hasn't made to feel picking up the atom from Denver trying to get him into the mix it up to speed. That's a group that I think kind of the lowest immediate expectations for some of these other groups in a life to see. Some more consistency early on. But still I look at it and I think we couldn't have expected the giants to come roaring out of the gate. Winning all sorts of games and In turn this thing around right away it's like a Joe Judge said the other day. There's no magic wand there's no magic form A. And when you think about it, this is a team that went twelve and thirty six, the last three years so. It's not something that that was gonNA turn around immediately. The immediacy of it. But this is also where we're at with the League. Everything's built on these twenty four to thirty six month calendars. And there's not a six year plan. You look at the, you know the six year to bring San Francisco to mine carmakers. That's what they brought in Lynch Shanahan. They gave them both six year matching contracts. They weren't expected to take six years to do that, but they were just trying to lock them. Together as a unit between the head coach and GM. I don't find ownership groups to be particularly patient obviously, the giants starting at more turnover. Top positions like GM head coach, and we'd seen in a long time. On so there are certain moves and things around they're not clearly not as patient i. Mean I don't know how much. How much leeway you get those things I know you're bringing in a new coach. But when you these different timelines, it becomes an interesting dynamic because GM's on a different time than the head coach and which timeline is ownership using is measuring stick is it the roster construction and where that's not that's not an its first year are we talking about the roster construction? You did a complete over imagine coaching system. If that was the selling point yeah they might be looking at this on a two three year peace and that's a question for the Mars that Titians that. Would Room Dictate Bell Lens we should look at this hour. Did they did they bring this altogether thinking that we just need a change in coaching to get these players going? Or do we need to completely redo the bill building a different way in the light of this coach and now we're resetting the clock Twenty four to thirty, six months from this point. And that's the hard question for me Dan is. Everybody everybody wants Dave. Gentleman's head right now and we'll get into. A little bit more on on Gettleman. You know because as you said, Cattlemans had three off seasons now but. Are the giants out of beginning. In your mind or are they in the middle I look at it like you almost have to. You almost you can't completely discount it. But you almost have to look at. This as as yet another restart yet another beginning with the giants with it with a new coaching staff and all the new schemes. You can't maybe throw out the last two years but I I kind of look at it like you have to look at this as a starting point you agree with me or disagree. I I don't philosophically like splitting up the GM and head coach different timelines because of this, then you can really craft a narrative in both directions at all times. It creates a level of friction at odds personally uncomfortable with. So again, I'm going to use the San Francisco example chip Kelly at one year there San Francisco had no earthly idea whether or not chip Kelly would have been successful in San Francisco or not but they decided that when they moved on from Trent Baulky, they were just going to move on from both reset the whole thing these times where one person gets to save one person gets to go because obviously there's talk on the other side of A. To Jersey teams here with the jets on whether or not their head coach goes and there. And these conversations happen in all these places I don't. I don't like when you split up because it becomes so. Nebulous in terms of at, do that in who's in lockstep who setting the direction of this. If this is Dave, gettleman vision at this coach is able to take the players he's been collecting in he's the best person maximize them. I don't see it at the beginning if it was okay, we built in a certain light with Shurmur. Now, we're no longer going to build. In that way we're going to build a different way in this job judge way than it is a start and I don't think I've heard answered anything like that. You know in that transition period, you probably know better than I. In terms of how they frame that when they brought. This was joe here because they didn't like the build and the coaching or it's Joe here because the bill been fine but the coaching needed help. And I don't know to be honest I don't know if they clearly ever really answered that question. I think that what they said was that they thought gettleman was the right general manager going forward. But. I think that question is sort of open ended so Mike my question for you. You know as we talk about as we talk about this and. If the giants were going to move on from Pat Shurmur and I know they hate to move on from GM after two years and you hate to keep the cycle going. Would it have made more sense to move on from Dave as well. Yeah, I'm of the opinion that if you're good, you decided to move on from one you got to move on from both like to me you bring those people in together and they're committee together lead together and is this is their build pat i. don't like the friction I live this stuff in in Philadelphia. I've watched it in so many places the last ten years. I keep bringing up that San Francisco John Harbaugh turned boggy fights and the chip. Kelly Howie Roseman fights in these these things that have gone down and places and I'm not saying York's. Publicly, or even privately fighting to the same degree I do think it creates an opportunity for friction and narratives and who's pulling the owners ear at which direction. Just. MAKES ME UNCOMFORTABLE FROM A team perspective I? Think if you're if you're building in a vision Then, you bring those people in as a unit. Because again, we can't even answer the question here of what? What is the measuring stick that they're going by? Because no one knows what what led to Shurmur decision at least publicly from that standpoint. So I think for the purpose of the conversation, we should probably treat it as beginning. And then look at what has to happen moving forward. I would imagine that's probably what front will the today the change to into themselves. But. My Gut, we've told me they're probably looking at this as a new start. So before actually move onto the state of the roster and what they have I guess the the. The sort of wrap up question on on Dave, even on the general manager situation with the giants. Their own three. Dave always says, we think there are better days ahead. Joe. Always says it's not about where we are. It's about what we're building. It's about where we're going. But. At. Owen, three with Daniel Jones sort of. I mean there's there's potential there but the same type of mistakes continue to happen over and over. We continue to see offensive line struggles. If this team goes. To and fourteen or three and thirteen. Can can you can you go forward with Dave or do you have to have to go out and find a GM? Who Aligns with with with Joe Judge and the giants could go forward with perhaps as a team. I think if you're. You're sitting in the Martin shoes and you're you're trying not to listen to. A emotion and you're trying to be as logical as you can't about it. If you sat down with Pat Shurmur decision and said we were building in a certain light. Where we were uncomfortable with that dealt uncomfortable that coaching. That's why we need this move. We're going to give it everything to our new coach and building. They're like the this first season is just that it's just a first season. View sat down and you said we're comfortable with the bill. We liked the way things are coming along and we just need a different type of coach to extract more from it. Then, I would be uncomfortable at the end of the season with those kind of results. Home because you invested a lot, some premium positions that you would hope would be starting to show some returns. You know the the League from a rules structure is built for the call Certainly of outcomes and basically you build where everybody from a row perspective is closer to eight. It just leads to better games. Teams, that are competitive with each other increases, engagement and viewers and everything else from UC teams are going to play equally like we had last night with the chiefs and the Ravens everyone's interested in that game. When you'RE GONNA watch a game where the best in the league plays the worst season, the League it's at twenty point spread. It's not as interesting to watch and so. I think that most teams should be in a situation where even in a bad year you're looking at six ten. Unless you've got really considerable injuries to premium positions. So you start to go below that, it's a pretty alarming situation. So. How much of what we've seen from the giants especially Sunday when they just didn't look good. How much of what we've seen? Could. Be. You know you don't WanNa, make an excuse. But how much of what we've seen could you look at and say, well, they didn't have an off season on the field they had all the you know all the. The short and training camp and no preseason games. How much of that? Can you look at it and say? With a new coat. Schemes they just haven't had a fair opportunity to prepare this team or do you look at it and you say this rosters just not good. I mean everybody had the same off season. So obviously, it's just a coaching change and install new things I will say that I. Almost the first half certainly the first quarter into the second quarter that was a competitive game I thought the giants defensive leap were playing pretty well getting a lot of pocket collapsing from big guys inside head some glimpses, impressions from guys like Blake Martinez. Plugging in the Logan Ryan's guys like that that you just added recently. And so like the pattern matching in some of the conceptual things they're thought coaching. Wise. Looked sound. Execution wasn't there. They weren't exchanging things against the man beaters sue the forty, nine, hundred putting in. They weren't passing off well, they disciplined at some of those pieces. Some guys just weren't matching up Jordan rate was beating the giants corners over and over again in that period of time. So that's it made didn't look like a coaching issue. They look like they were coached. Well, the players weren't keeping up on some of stuff at least in the first half. On the offense of side that was a harder one because in Slayton, not a true number one in my is where he's going to go out and be able to beat single bracketed single coverage of bracketed coverage. Consistently you. He does great things and you can seem to success but he's not in the likes of the Julio Jones or what have you know? You know we're we're take skillset lies. But they're they're not separating themselves across the board in that room that having shepherd hurts. But that that rooms not there. So they're not opening up the same way Daniel Jones had some opportunities thought to make some plays where he checks and things down and didn't take big chances. We talked about the offensive line didn't next. So there were there were pieces across the board where? They, they weren't getting it done at the same time they were in it with that banged up nine team for a while what Really hurt is. The way it turned over in the second half and not being able to keep up. and. One San Francisco Donald into what those things were. They kept working on those weaknesses in and the giants didn't have answers in part of it is roster in part of it is just the in game adjustment piece. Obviously, the second half there's. The, you're not gonNA come away with that with a positive on hey, you can hang your hat on this thing. Second. Right, so The issue is you look at, as you said, get, there have been three drafts now in gettleman era as GM. and. Do you begin to I, looked at it and I thought. There's a pretty decent young core in place. And yet, there's part of me now that starts to wonder about. What will Hernandez is going to be in what Lorenzo Carter is going to be. and. And what Daniel Jones is going to be because we just don't see as of yet. We know what the what the strengths are with Daniel Jones. But we also know what the what the weakness. Czar and at some point you wanna see those those weaknesses as you want to see those turnovers happen less frequently. I just begin to wonder if this young corps. Is Is as good as I thought it. I mean you you have thoughts on on just the state of the roster state of of the young core that's in place right now. You have a grading scale with every team and most teams go color coded and anger where I was. Blue kind of like premium color blue chipper type thing. then. You'd come down and some teams would go with like a purple is kind of a you know a sending, but could be blue here soon, and below that most places like a read write in a red was a solid starter a guy that you go out there you win with, they get a job done. You're you're you're not actively looking to replace them, but there's also an understanding that they might not be a playmaker, right? They're not necessarily in that blue category quits or getting things done. A lot of red players on the roster. There's a lot of guys that can get things done you. No doubt. Tomlinson's next Lawrence's. Even the carvers. OF THE WORLD Are Turning into to read players will hernandez looking like a red. Player. The problem is, I just don't know where the blue guys are. Now. When you look at the roster, I, don't where the blue guys are and I don't necessarily see a bunch of purple guys that are right there on the cusp of becoming the loop player. I was Barklay can be a blue player. That notwithstanding that it just is a solid group of players, but then you need. You gotTa have some playmakers if you don't have planned acres than you have to scheme to that. So you know the team they just played at the niners. Niners don't have explosive weapons right now and their skill groups. Is based on injury. But Kendrick born and Mohamed new. The I today we're using Jeff Wilson undrafted free agent running back. They were scheming those guys to success along with Jordan Reeves and what have you that they put together. They were scheming those guys to success, and so that becomes Garrett's undertaking is if you're going to have read players than you have to create the explosives schematically if they're not gonna be there because your guys are better than the other teams, guys. So. It's not a it's not a roster void of players fighting stretch the imagination. But again, if you were to sit down and say who the Who the three guys you know in every game are going to be. On, par with the other explicit players in the league you know chance to be all pro tight you know who the blue guys on the roster. I don't not sure who I'm jumping up and down to put on that list. And I I think. That's the weird part of the whole of the whole thing is. You can't look at it and. Well. This guy's Boston at guys a bust in this guy was a terrible pick and that guy was a terrible player you just outside of outside of of Saquon. You don't have anyone on that roster that that an opposing team would fear and or a guy that contains a game for you and and that's that's the hard part I the way I look at it is you just don't have that that guy and. I mean is that an indictment of the roster build i? I don't even know how I don't even know how to look at that. Part of it is. This is a hard thing in it's hard. It's getting circles in it certainly harden offended. Not every draft. Produce is. Such a copious amount of blue chips that every team can walk away with them. So even just having first round picks, even just having high first round picks like we sat hearing went year by year. The last ten years just looked at top ten picks. You're going to have years where nine of the ten top ten picks are practically irrelevant relative to draft status writing. Again, top ten picture looking at blue chippers they're not always there. So I know this again, this is what sounds weird inside scouting circles aimed inside Phantom. There's an element of luck. To team building, right. If you're not if the market doesn't give you those kind of quarterbacks, the market doesn't give you like man wouldn't it be nice to have top four pick this year if you need a quarterback. Because the market is going to be stocked with them, Lawrenson fields and lance, and what have you like man this can be a great year for quarterbacks and then you've got years EJ manual Gino. Smith. So. Every year doesn't guarantee that every position is stocked with premium players. But when you go, you spend first round pick on a corner and obviously you have to let him go. That's hurts and when you're expecting well Hernandez to be more than red player in order to get value at Barclay and it's not there that hurts in obviously adding the tackle later in the build. In. The he's a fine athlete and was a fine player in college. He's got a dial in and some angles. He's got gotta relax in terms of when he releases his hands and stuff he's he's getting a little bit ahead of himself in terms of what he fire I think he'll be okay but it's not dialed in yet unfortunately the rookie down the road of the jets he looks better right now doesn't mean Thomas can't be better. It's it's tough from that standpoint Again it's. It all hangs on a quarterback, and then you come back to all of this it end of the day every team built hangs quarterback and somewhere in your first three years, you pull the trigger on a quarterback and decide this is your guy and if you hit on that It can cover. Other issues because every every team in the league. Every GM in the League has picks in those first couple years in those first couple rounds of those first couple years they would like to have back right. They did not work out the San Francisco senior talking about you know they took Solomon Thomas third overall that didn't really work out for them. They do these things where they draft these players highly. But if you have the quarterback, you can make up for it until everything with this build hinged on Daniel Jones being a playmaker. And the quarter that is. Stuff yet some twenty plus explosive things. But outside of that with the weapons that are there, that unit is not creating explosives. So. You know we've gone into the Daniel Jones discussion. So I think we need to dive into that a little bit deeper. When you look at Daniel Jones, you know we talk about. There's no sterling shepard around him. There's no, there's no superstar game. Wide Receiver even even with Sterling Shepard. Evan Ingram is a guy that that I don't know I don't know if he's ever going to be. You know what giants fans are. The giants hoped he would be and I'm not quite sure. Jason Garrett completely knows how to use him at this point. But. Just, you know your thoughts on Daniel Jones's as far as where he is right now I think he started fifteen NFL Games where is he and how much optimism do you have? You know that he can get to that to that top tier sort of franchise level guy that you can that you can win because of sort of that level that that the giants really need him to get to I, always try to. Have this debate with myself I think people get locked into their previous anchor to pass their opinion. So if we didn't like or somebody coming out weighed like never like, oh, that or if we like somebody coming out, we never go back because it all becomes this look at me. I'm so smart I'm right I. Really don't like it into that. So I have to admit right off like Daniel Jones was not. For me the way I view quarterback Clayton these days because. The because of the twenty four to thirty, six month calendar because of the restrictions in the practice development. Because of all these things, it's so hard to put all the pieces in place so that it quarterback can just step in and utilize the people around him. Back to those years with the several years, the giants and lightning. There were so many pieces everywhere offense of lying skill players. The defenses were always good in those years and you could just go out and use all those pieces around in Odyssey champion that team to holding up a Lombardi trophy. I was really really hard to replicate the NFL right now. And so I look at quarterback as a position that in itself has to have some sort of playmaker element. And that creates a risk reward scenario. The guys that are going to be doing things that can make explosives will also create the potential for turnovers. There's no doubt about it. The buffalo bills have this Josh Allen you know he's going to have a dynamic player, these head scratcher. And to me, Jones has the head scratchers like anybody would with this many starts under his belt that's not issue. But I don't see the explosives I don't see him creating. In those designed quarterback stuff, he did you know again a big gains that way. So if they want to continue to do that, we can start to see more of an element here but from setting up in the pocket. In the way that that the rats are coming guys are separating. It's just not it's not coming. He's not creating that way and I don't know. Again. How Guy can get to the upper echelon these days without either being that playmaker intrinsically or having? To three blue type players in your offense. Surrounded by a bunch of reds so that you can really elevate those blues. One of. The most common tasks to it, and right now you're not either you don't have enough blues in the room on offense and Jones isn't making explosives on his own. So it's it's a tough situation. I think they're averaging twelve point, seven points per game, which you know thank God for the jets or the giants would have the worst offense in the league at this point but. You look at it without without Barclay. And you talked about Jason Garrett needing scheme you know some of those explosives. Khanate they get to a point where they're playing. Competent offense that they can win games with over the next thirteen games. I think-i Garrett's going to have to pivot. I don't think he's GonNa be able to sit back and do what he's done. In debt to that point, I, mean you got the rams coming up, have the cowboys coming up some division games this new Tampa Bay team. Exciting clubs in Seattle and Arizona as you do that west coast swing, obviously the giants. Later on, there's there's not a whole lot of teams here where you're going to look at it and just say giants players are going to go beat their players defensively. And so to me it becomes. This test of creativity in scheme I don't. I don't see this time anymore where coach can sit back and draw up something that wins when. Executing its. And then if everybody executes then somebody might be there you gotTa have these wrinkles. You gotTa have these elements that saying I'm going peel back layers and I'm make these guys thank and to not be static into you know not just try to run the ball on first down and play from third and seven and stuff like that. I just I think they really have to look at doing this differently. And I just don't know enough Garrett as a person to know if that's something he's willing to do or something that judge wouldn't allow him to when you hire an offensive coordinator because they embody the vision of the offense that you want to see. and. To me they're just. They play a very static game. We're GONNA light up and we're going to run a route concept and then. Our guys have to beat your guys. And that puts a lot of onus on the players to beat the defensive players as opposed to okay. I'm going to occupy the the eyes of the linebacker and the safety. I'm GONNA, pull them here but make them think this. We're GONNA add this wrinkle. You know the Andy Reid last night with a shovel pass the full back on the goal line offered that look you know looking like the option play with Mahomes to to. You know. They just got add more just think they've got really start to be creative and how they do that they have. Here that you can be competitive with, but you really have to scheme them to success. I think to put together leaning football. It's because I think they are trying to do that on the defensive side of the ball I, think that. that. Joe Judge has. Has Broadened Patrick Graham and it's in part to be creative not to be static to to scheme things up to do things differently. So it's it's funny. To think that they would go the opposite direction on offense you you find that to be to be a little bit odd. I do. I can cure your. Point there you would. You would think that philosophy that you. Believe in defensively like that to create that have the DB's feel like they have to move around create these matchups these and you can see bill these versatile pieces that they put in in in love and peppers and Ryan drafting mckinney. There is a value placed on. DVD's that can work the middle of field different matchups little bit a little bit of coverage little bit of run support. The, they added some elements like that. And then you know trust my out slightly and guys like bradberry to do their job not that he had the greatest game against San Francisco had some better weeks before that. That you saw that in that bill and then. offensively. It's lineup and have our guys be guys. And it doesn't. It not reflected in that way. Yes. I. Think that's an interesting thing to say the least. All Right, Dan Final final question for you here, and it's sort of the the down the road question that giants fans are already asking. But they really don't WanNa. Think about any it circles back to Daniel Jones. If the giants are bad enough to be in that conversation four. For the Trevor Lawrence's in the Justin fields in in the trae lances that you know those those top three quarterbacks if they're in that top two or three. Pick. The draft range. Is it Smarter for the giants to. If they're if they're that bad, which means there what one in fifteen? So. If they're in that conversation, do you trade out of that pick and try to get as many pieces as you can build around Daniel Jones? Or do you just start over? Me Personally I grab one of those quarterbacks on their. You Know I. There's a quote that I really liked. Don't hang onto a mistake just because you spent a long time making it. You work to make decisions everything you do everybody does in every industry it's no different football you spend time you think about it you try to pull together information you make the decision you think is best at the time and then. That decision goes into action and if That doesn't return what you expected. I would think people would be prepared to it and to make adjustments as necessary. So if you're sitting there one in fifteen and. The remaining players are relatively healthy. You're playing through. You're not. You don't lose three live in during the year whatever. Then to me that fortunate I, think indictment on. The quarterback position not creating. Make, as you should be able, you've got a guy that can go in games. Would you think win games like would that line of logic continue that? If that guy was that guy, you might not win eight or nine but you'd win five or six and stuff I'm staring down one to three wins in a year. You don't win in the NFL without the quarterback and so I'm GonNa keep taking chances at quarterback until I have the guy that goes in wins me games. and. So yeah if I'm sitting there in that position. I'd be looking to acquire whatever one of those quarterbacks, the most versus my drafts spot. and Go from there. All, right. Hey, before I let you go. Why don't you tell folks about the about the Scouting Academy about anything else you've got going on So for those of you have heard about us before we started seven years ago we brought a large group of NFL executives and coaches together that wanted to help people learn more about what it is the scouts do and how to do it. We built an online class that allows people to come in and experience that do that work received feedback. Personalized instruction in. And really an attention to honing that crash building foundations, we've had alumni at forty onto NFL opportunities. We have over one, hundred, thirty in college football. We've had people at everything from next Gen stats, faster sports, Info solutions we've had agents we've had beat writers, media analysts have so many different people that had decided. They wanted to learn more about the game and apply it in some way, and we've been able to work with them and help them. Leverage this in advance their careers and it's been really. To work with so many people over these years. So we just kicked off our fall semester a couple of weeks ago but you can check us out at Scouting Academy Dot Com. We also try to publish a lot of stuff just put time out there to help people earn our. Youtube. Channel, Youtube Slash the Scouting Academy on our social media channels on twitter. INSTAGRAM. Were breaking down plays in showing you where things are at in hoping you guys learned something along the way. All Right Dan, we always learned from talking to you. So we appreciate your time giants. Fans. Thank you very very much for listening and we'll talk to you soon. Bye. Bye Now. Hi I'm Brian and I'm one of the hosts of the Amazing Avenue Network of podcasts each week day we bring you a different podcast that covers the new. York mets from a different perspective. Every. Monday you could hear me Steve along with Kenan Locus on from complex Queens where we discussed the mets minor league system every every Tuesday on fermentable join me rebel. Back on the career of a lesser heralded. Hi I'm Alison along with Maggie and Linda Pot of their own each week we look at all things and social justice issues in baseball I'm Chris and you can catch Brian meet chatting about the current state of the mets on Amazing Avenue Audio show Thursday and on Fridays we have Amazing Avenue and conversation where I talk with interesting people about the New York mets. So. Check out the Amazing Avenue family of podcast. You can get us on apple podcasts, spotify stitcher or your podcast choice. And as always. Let's go mets.
REShow: Brian Windhorst. Hour 1 (07-15-19)
"Thank you for listening to this podcast. One sports net production available on Apple podcasts and podcast wind. Everybody's got A to do list drop off the dry cleaning pick-up some milk. Here's an idea let's add save hundreds of dollars. It was on car insurance to that list and the good thing is you don't have to drop off or pick up anything. All you have to do is go to GEICO DOT COM and in fifteen minutes you could be saving fifteen percent or more on car insurance extra money in your pocket of course this may be the most rewarding warning to do you do today pros do it right to take their business to the next level by relying on trusted brands to get the job done lows is here to help and help you save your next stain job. Get a gallon of ice bar. One coat transparent parents stained placebo starting at thirty five ninety eight and we now offer the little giant King Combo ladder the world's first step extension and leaning ladder giving you the flexibility to do just about any job for only one hundred fifty nine dollars for trusted brands that make the job easier do it right for less starwood lows U._S.. Only well hey everybody welcome addition. The Rich Eisen show live from the A._T.. Studios in Los Angeles California's A._T. and T. by the way if all the letters for me to screw up the benefactors the lights are on the four two four rich number two dollars on this show <hes> back from a three day weekend for us here. I took Friday off to go visit my children my two boys at <hes>. It's summer camp for and I'm back people. I'm back and look. I love being in this share every day as best. I possibly can <hes> I love shows like this when the stories are red hot right when when there's there's big stories lots going so when I'm not in a chair and I love the Darod Smithfield in on the radio side of things and he is awesome <hes> he even texted me saying hey man great working with the crew sorry you weren't in the chair today because he understands right when when Russell Westbrook is traded as a big deal okay to finish the FA- I mean every July as we all know busy fireworks celebration in honor honor of our great nation and there's you can always tell when when it's over my kids know because my wife and I we call here's the big finish comes the big finish and it's this big huge burst of fireworks and the biggest oohs and aahs the N._B._A.. Free Agency period was like July fourth fireworks where it's being set off from everywhere including in your neighborhood we like that that neighbor has fireworks to really and it just keeps going off and you think it's about to subside and boom biggest finish the dismantling of the Oklahoma City thunder because Colli Leonard called up Paul George how about you join me in Los Los Angeles and he gets out and Sam Preston uses the moment to get out from under. I guess his contract and collect an absurd amount of first round picks tack went on for Jeremy Grant from Denver Correct Brockman correct and then West westbrook POPs free because everybody else is gone and Westbrook is kind of like you know. Can I get out of here too. Yeah and we all know it wasn't working there. Are We all understand that obviously Paul George Click to the point where they won <hes> one playoff series to face Portland right and and that was it and we got we got <hes> <hes> bye bye from Lillard had no idea at the time it was by by the Oklahoma City Thunder and the eleven year run of Russell Westbrook that we all know is not going swimmingly was being belligerent with at least one member of the press locally and we all heard Chris Paul wasn't getting along with hearten anymore and even though we had Daryl Morey on this show the general manager of the Houston Rockets good friend of the program and you know this made the rounds over the weekend where he came on the show showing set one hundred percent Chris Paul is going to be on this team next year that whatever's being mentioned about Paul and Hardens relationship they had a blow up at the end of the bench after their game six loss against Golden State and that happens a million times a season season. I will not pull the Tommy Lee Jones from the fugitive saying get Dr Nichols in here. He lied to me because it was one hundred percent yeah unless Russell less every right right Russell Westbrook pops free and it's almost apples to apples in terms of the dollars and cents and if you could go ahead and break up the band that has on occasion wanted to break up and we I assume he was probably sugar coating the relationship between Hardin and Paul and you could hook harden up with Westbrook again 'cause yeah so many people don't from member young youngsters don't remember harden was drafted by the Oklahoma City Thunder. He's a former teammate of Westbrook's they know each other and I- property say Brockman helped to have durant around but it worked hard and was coming off the bench back in those days he was like the sixth man of the year he won six year yes so let's run a pack and if you're the Houston Rockets cough up the first rounders you got it. This is it I mean you can keep the band together. The band together Capella Tucker these guys Gordon and you know Dan Tony Dialing up the offensive magic here. You don't talk about two man games that the N._B._A.. is putting out there okay. You Got Obviously Hawaiian George here and you got Lebron and Anthony Davis here. It was introduced over the weekend. You got these two guys. You Got Lillard mccollum. You Got <hes> obviously choose any anybody with the sixers you could get a host of of two men games there in the joker and Murray leg Denver's loaded right wow or and it could be Butler and Chris Paul. Maybe there is one more firework to go with. Maybe that Paul is just hanging out in Oklahoma City for Oklahoma City ready to just raise it totally down to the ground. Even though there's Gillis Alexander there who is very good and all these first rounders you can go in whatever direction you wonder if Oklahoma City you could sit back and basically the first three picks of the draft for the the next five years. It's possible the ping pong balls bounce properly and or you could use these first round picks to go and offload Paul one of 'em Hey Miami want Paul and and here's a first rounder to take his salary and we'll take a couple serviceable players back. <hes> I mean they were looking at it on the screen right. Now are Los Angeles Broadcasting Santa Cruz put it up two first rounders for the next four years three and twenty twenty four just the singular one and twenty twenty-five but they could swath with the clippers in Houston and <hes> and then three and twenty twenty six. I mean they have an absurd amount of first rounders so samp rusty faced with <hes> made lemonade made chicken salad. Alad however you WANNA use it Brian Windhorst of E._S._p._N.. WE'RE GONNA call him up and see if Paul is the last firework to go off to go to Miami if Paul and Butler that wouldn't be too bad for them. Indeed Wade comes back one last time we're back also on the show Cameron Jordan of the New Orleans Saints is joining us nice. Take a deep breath everybody and exhale because we've made it this week. A handful of training camps open up rookies report for the Saints This Week Rookies Report for the cardinals this week Yep this coming Wednesday. Calamar is going to be in a training camp right <hes> also this week the ravens rookies show up also this week the seahawks rookie show up on Wednesday. The saints as I mentioned the rookies opened up on Thursday the jets rookies arrive on Friday and then this Wednesday everybody arrives the broncos rookies and veterans this Wednesday broncos was training camp opens up. We have made its people. We're GONNA HAVE A re-live National Football League player Cameron Jordan in Studio congratulations to Roma winning that <hes> classic the classic for second straight back back to back so we've got Cameron Jordan we also have a baseball on our minds an incredible piece <hes> and bleacher report today by Scott Miller. WHO's been all over this story? That's been going on in the Atlantic League. If you've been paying attention at that level of baseball Robo Robo dumps the the robotic computer driven strike zone is being tested and I'll be honest with you. I thought it meant nobody's behind home plate. I thought it was like I didn't know if they were gonNA put like the robot from the jetsons back there or would be like a humanoid sophomore right or a robot a robot would like France ribbons face on it like it's Enrico Palazzo Okay but what it is is a computerized arise system based on late late laser I think in all different sorts of technology that creates the strike zone and let you know if it's a ball or a strike or they couldn't figure it out into the earpiece piece of the Umpire Umpire. Here's ball striking could see it right now. I have it on the screen. It's an it's an air an air pod. That's in the ear of the umpire and you're playing the Terminator Right now yeah and and the Umpires Ball Strike and says you know and just regurgitates what here's in the year and if it's no track then it's whatever he sees right so we still have to pay attention and also call check swings. They don't have the computer to help you call check swings or that you know the the little matter of safe or out at home plate or fair ball and Scott Miller. It's on bleacher report. Today is GONNA join us. He spoke to the following folks here. Let me get this list <hes> C._C._C. Bath you Max Scherzer as a Christian Yelich Corey Kluber and more so he spoke to some stars of the game about all this and then allied is GonNa join us. I do want to spend this moment right here on what we saw <hes> with baseball returning on mass Friday they night saw here in southern California baseball is just in my mind. What's so great about it? It's lyrical. It's historic. It's slow paced in a way that you can just sit back and enjoy the game in a manner that you have Chit Chat. Tell stories and also see the XS and os playing out but more more than anything else with this this game as that. I love his heart. It's the teammates that pulled together together. Now Sports General mean when talk about heart what we saw from Federer and Yovich <hes> for the five setter which will also get to here on the show briefly. I mean heart is obviously in every sport but baseball. It's just I it's just all kinds of awesome when baseball players band together and put their hearts on display certainly when one of their teammates like Tyler skaggs passes is away at the age of twenty seven in a hotel room out of the blue and the angels that happened in Texas the angels opened up the second half of the season Friday night against the marriage first home game since skaggs passing and they're all wearing number forty-five for Tyler skaggs and they put number forty five on the mound they put number forty five in the outfield they bring out skaggs framed Jersey to his mom who throws out the first pitch and his mom debbie. Hetman skaggs is a softball coach here in Santa Monica High School just up the road from here and she goes out there touches the mound and scrawls his initials into the dirt and fire's first pitch that was perfect place goes crazy. She praised the heavens and there's not a dry in the house. Then the angels take the field get a clean I from Taylor Cole their starter and then put a seven spot on the board in the first starting with Mike Trout Yankee to run jack to left Centerfield to put them on the board and then later on in the inning two run double to become the first angel to hit two extra base hits and a first hitting since Jim Edmonds did it in one thousand nine hundred four seven spot eight hits thirteen batters. They're up seven nothing so the fans you're now in a rocking chair sit back and just think about Tyler skaggs think about his life think about what they're putting out there and all they do after that is through eight more no hit innings with Felix Panya coming throwing the last seven frames with no-heads thirteen nothing when a combined no hitter on the first home game after skaggs passing and the eve of what would have been his twenty eighth birthday they all take off their forty five jerseys and replace it on the mound around the number forty five. Are you kidding me. Watch a night can't be scripted. It is the stuff off of baseball God's smiling down and saying rest in Peace Tyler skaggs The Los Angeles angels knocked it out of the park literally figuratively and I can't say enough about what that night meant when you are watching it. You're seeing it your accounting. You're thinking about it. How does it happen obviously with skaggs passing and then how does it happen that this all doc plays out just on believable? It's getting dusty in here. It was dusty in Anaheim on Friday night dusty in Los Angeles and a an outlander is gonNA join us in our number three from M._l._b.. Network to talk about this and also the rest of the major league baseball season. I tip my cap to the angels and all their players. Obviously you want to try your. Best you want to win but to respond to the moment seven-run I trout leading the way. How amazing is he? Hopefully he's going to be. He's having an M._R._I.. Taken today to see if his <hes> his legs all right calf in particular so we're we're going to basically <hes> pause the show later on and our three recount this and the rest of the second half the season our poll question question coming up along with Brian Windhorst is well for some reason Mike del Tufo is now a credited photographer over the United States on N._B._C.. Local news affiliates. We will explain what that all means eight four four zero. Oh full rich is the number to dial. Oh yeah another no hitter in baseball this weekend. Oh wait a minute. There wasn't because the rays put on a shift with one out to go yup. That's how we're rolling here. Cameron Jordan Football Scott Miller a bleacher report allied or baseball when we come back Brian Windhorst on the big supposed finish to the N._B._A.. Free Agency periods Chris Paul on the move and how did Westbrook pop free we kind of know but will run through all of that with one of our favorite N._B._A.. Reporters that we have on the show for you eight four two four rich number dial as well here on this busy Monday n._F._l.. Comes back in our lives week edition of the rich Eisen show every car comes with its share of stories that Ding in your bumper. When you nervously picked up your first date the luxury repackage you got after a big promotion or the mileage you save by riding your bike all summer while you can't put a price tag on your stories now with truecar you can at least find out what your car's worth when it's time to sell or trade it in just go to truecar simply enter your license plate number and watch how your car's details pop up then answer a few questions navigation and moon roof watches they bump up your value high mileage? You already knew it was gonna cost you but now you know how much danger wallets you can plan ahead. Once you finish you get a true cash offer sent in minutes which you can take to a local certified dealer to cash out or trade in so when you're ready to experience a better way to sell or trade in your car check out truecar today true cash offer not available in all states pros do it right to take their business to the next level by relying on trusted brands to get the job done lows is here to help and help you save for your next stain job. Get a gallon of ice bar. One coat transparent stained placebo starting at thirty five ninety eight and we now offer the little giant King Combo ladder the world's first step extension and leaning ladder giving you the flexibility to do just about any job for only one hundred fifty nine dollars for trusted brands that make the job easier do it for less starwood lows U._S.. Only it's like the godfather part three three every time Brian wars thinks he's out. We pull them back in when that's what happens when Russell Westbrook and Chris Paul traded for one another Brian when horseback here on the Honda Insider Report on the rich Eisen show. How are you Brian Good? God rich please give it up to the football training camp broncos rookies and veterans report Wednesday Brian both the whole thing. It's soon as soon as that happens. They forget my name while I don't know about that. I career is Chris Paul potentially on the move after after that you think he's just staying put Oklahoma City. What do you think no? They'RE GONNA try to trade him for sure but I I mean and I and I will preface this by saying <hes> you know things can change quickly but you know in talking to some of the the parties I I don't think the thunder are in any hurry to trade him and it's a difficult complex trade <hes> I do you know we we had to Kyrie irving trade in and lasted so August. We all remember well some of us. Do the Dwight Maher that Dwight Howard <hes> saga <hes> that lasted into August. I don't know if he was going to be much intensity with this but this is a strange situation. Chris Paul is future. Hall of Famer has been pretty effective when he's been healthy the last two years as president of the Players Association very powerful and influential guy and his contract is still is regarded as one of the worst in the League and to get get rid of him. <hes> the the the ROC. It's just you know sent two first round picks and to pick swamps because it's such a bad contract now. The rockets wouldn't say that they'd argue they were trading for an all star point guard and also Westbrook and that's a fair thing to say but if you go out there and survey teams some teams would say the only way I'm taking this Chris Paul contracts and not necessarily Chris Paul the player but taking the hundred and twenty five million left is if you give me draft picks you you don't just I have to give me the player you gotTa. Give me a drastic because I've got to swallow this salary and I think the thunder are saying well. If that's the way you feel we're in no hurry. Maybe you'll need Chris. Paul come October November December but Chris Paul obviously he doesn't want to waste time and he's thirty four going on thirty five he wants the play with the team is GonNa content and clearly that's not the thunder so this could get done in twenty four hours. This could get done in twenty four days. You get twenty four weeks. I I honestly don't know Brian Windhorst here on the rich Eisen show so let's let's talk about the Genesis of the Westbrook Chris Paul Conversation. When did that happen? The minute that Paul George shocked everybody by getting <hes> The exit visas to Oklahoma City. What's the I mean to Los Angeles? What do you think Brian Well? It wasn't the minute but that day and I don't know whether it was day or night because I think James Harden was in Asia somewhere from what I am told James Harden got on the phone with <hes> Russell Westbrook and they they were ten years old day. <hes> you know they're both from L._A.. They're both in roughly the same age group <hes> they <hes> they played together on Team U._S._A.. In the past <hes> they got on the phone with and of course they were teammates and <hes> big on the phone together and Russ was I think ready to move on after that move and James Harden was ready to move on from Chris Paul. I don't think it was a situation where James Harden was saying. You've got to get Chris Paul Outta here but I do think that he made it clear to management that. If there was something that they could do with Chris Paul that he would support it and once Russell Westbrook became available. I think James Harden did everything he possibly could to make it known as organization that he wanted that to happen and that's one of the reasons why they I you know sent out Chris Paul and the picks because I think James Harden wanted it to be so and so that means that James Harden and Russell Westbrook have some sort of agreement and have some sort of understanding about playing together and to me. That's the most important the thing because they're going to have to sacrifice their games. This it'd be one thing if if the team made the marriage and <hes> and you know sit here now you gotta adjust and that's happened in the past. We've seen that happen a lot of times. This was the players creating the marriage and the teams the team now has to figure out how to make it work and this is the new N._B._A.. So based on your knowledge or or thought process here it was hardened who would call up Daryl Morey and say hey I just got off the phone with Westbrook and he'd be willing to come here is that and then more he goes and calls prestige and says let's talk shop. Is that basically the way it happened I. I wish I knew those exact details rich. I don't know I just know that they. They were in contact and I. I wish I could tell you oh James called roster rust call James. I don't know who called him. I don't know who texted him. What's APP D._M.? You know facebook message. I don't know how it all worked but I do know that. Russia and James Aims were speaking about the possibility and and <hes> you know Russ went to the funder and said Hey can you send me to Houston and <hes> James said hey can you can you try to get Russell and that's how the deal went down so <hes> David Griffin of the Pelicans Front Office last Thursday Brian and I asked him about why can't a general manager Tele Player. No we're just not sending you even if you've asked for trade and his response was it you know it's not that simple because players know each other for years ears and he called U._S._A.. Basketball Legal Tampering Brian. That's what he called it here that he likes to call U._S._A.. Basketball legal tampering because players get to know each other and they all say they WANNA play with each other does the N._B._A.. Like what's happened over the last couple weeks. I don't know I wish I listen to that conversation because <hes> my guess is I assumed grip wasn't complaining about it because no <hes> no he was not it was team U._S._A.. It was tenuous that helped Lebron Kevin love get to know each other which which triggered Lebron Getting Kevin Love to WanNa be to play for the cavs <hes> that they played together on T._v.. Say in London two thousand twelve and in two thousand fourteen they were teammates with the cavs and David Griffin the first to tell you that you know that was the genesis of that and <hes> if you go back and look at team you know the Rio Rio Olympic team and he can start figuring out the pairings that have happened since then <hes> and you know this is unheard of I mean there's a lot of different ways as happened over the years I mean mean players who have the same agent who have tried to play together for years decades. It's not new <hes> what I think the N._B._A.. I think the frustration amongst the teams as is that some of these deals are prearranged range and they're not involved so let me give you the classic example of this off Season Cer- Al Horford L.. The Celtics thought they were keeping out Horford. You know he was going to opt out of this contract. They knew that they said okay. We're going to negotiate a new contract with you. Next thing you know Al Horford has to go another direction and if the Celtics believe he had a pre-arranged deal lined up ready to go with the seventy sixers now. I don't know whether that's true you know very few people are going to know whether that's true but that's what the Celtics I think the lease and and so that's the kind of tampering drives teams crazy <hes> and you know the the thing is though the League has kind of throwing their hands up. They openly admitted that they can't control player to player tampering. They can't stop James James Harden from calling up Chris Paul two years ago and saying hey. Why don't you come play with me for the rockets? Go tell the clippers you WANNA be traded here. They can't call Russell. Westbrook can't stop they can't police that and they've chosen not to punish teams for doing you know tampering or alleged tampering outside the season so if you say something about a player on the T._v.. Show in December that'll get you find if your team season is over and it's the draft combine and a not meet with an agent and starts making an offer to a free agent who still six weeks away from free agency the N._B._A.. Has Let that go and buy them rich even buy them letting the free agency window to go from midnight to six P._M.. Which frankly is better for fans and better for television partners like us? We have five our show started at six o'clock eastern. When last year our show started midnight eastern and everybody was sleeping when when Paul George decide to resign this year? Everybody was wide awake but by even doing that the League is sort of giving a tip to the cap that they know all these deals are going to be done so they've kind of gone down the road. I don't know if they can put the toothpaste back in the two while just to let you know Griffin was not complaining I I asked him you know the basic question is why is it difficult because I'm coming from the world and the N._F._l.. Where for instance what's going on with Melvin Gordon Right now? I'm sure the chargers are going to try and work out a deal with him but in terms of trading him I I mean maybe if the packers the you know from their hometown on Wisconsin blows them away with a deal which doesn't usually happen in training camp anyway. The answer is going to be no then hold out Melvin. Will you know and when you come back. We'll be welcoming you back and let's go into super bowl together the N._B._A.. Just seems to be a totally different story and Griffin was his response was hey. I just want to create a spot where the stars WanNa stay and if the star is due call up another star they WANNA come to my spot that was essentially what he was saying last week and that's very pragmatic. That's very pragmatic because really what we're we if you're in Hollywood would okay and you have a four movie deal with paramount. You know it's been a long standing thing you just go. Listen paramount you and I are done. I'm getting out of this and they'll say in Hollywood that a deal is over when the talent says it's over and that's kind of where we are in the N._B._A.. James Harden and Russell Westbrook have three and four years left on their contracts. This is a situation where the teams would have all the power but those contracts don't mean anything if you're a superstar now if you're you know a player player who averages fifteen points off the bench. You'd have to have the same way but if you're a superstar your contract length doesn't mean anything but the difference between the N._F._l.. And the N._B._A.. Is there's not guaranteed. You know so Chris Paul may go downhill and he may not be the same player in year three this contract that he was in year one they the team that has him can't cut him and not pay him the last eighty million deal <hes> they have to pay and so that's the difference and the reason that they have that leverage and the reason that you can do is because Arnold Schwarzenegger can move product uh-huh and Chris Paul James Harden and Russell Westbrook and their past but able to move product and in the N._B._A.. Where it's a five team player game? The sounds very basic but I don't think it's something she can't say in a five game. When you have one player who is greater than almost everybody else it makes a lot bigger difference than the running back or a quarterback or or a left tackle and <hes> even a left field or designated hitter and so the players have figured this out? It's taken them. I think the beginning of guess was Kareem. abdul-jabbar demanding could be traded only for the Lakers Oscar Robertson <hes> filing a lawsuit that was the foundation of free agency and the N._B._A.. It's taken forty some years but the players finally have gotten themselves into a position where they're going to maximize their power and I don't know where the owners are going to go because while they can sit there in their group and say we got to stop this as soon as a superstar player raised his hand is available on the free agent marketer or demands a trade like Leonard they beat each other over the heads to get to get their hands on the guy and I just think we have that's the most powerful position in all of American sport and the a superstar and those guys are starting to leverage it couple more minutes left with Brian Windhorst of E._S._p._N.. And the Honda onto insider report last time you were on Colli was making his decision who knew that at the time he was making phone calls <hes> to people like Paul George for sure <hes> to say come join me and you said that Colli had in his hand the future of the Super Team era and then if he chose the clippers re chose the raptors he would end it and sure enough Brian. We do not have a team in the N._B._A.. Going into next season with three bona fide a-list superstar players on it like say obviously. The warriors did who's the best to man game in the N._B._A.. Going into next season based on everything that we've seen and by the way that was why the the clippers had to pay five first round picks because they knew the Kawhi Leonard could've walked to the Lakers now we'll never know if he actually would have done it right but because the Lakers were there as the option to become the next great super team that maybe could have won three titles in the next four or five years it spooked the clippers enough to to give up the pics to get Paul George and that's what I mean by him having the power in his hand so <hes> you know I think what what's really going to be a factor now. I think if you look at last year's raptors team they had and one amazing player they had a couple of other star level players Kyle lowry in past but the reason that they were so incredible as their overall depth they were flexible. They could play a whole bunch of different ways <hes> and so when you look at what so now if you're looking at all these teams what multiple superstars who has the depth who can play five or six different ways who can survive an injury to their starting center or they're starting <hes> you know point guard and I think the clippers are right there you look at them. They are too deep throughout their entire roster. They had the best of the western conference arguably last year. I think you look at the Utah Jazz their stars at the front and aren't quite as good Mike Conley. Donovan Mitchell are not Lebron and Anthony Davis but they're they're too deep chart which is awesome. The Denver Nuggets too deep chart is awesome those three teams really light up the board to me in the West and then you have team Lebron Nancy Davis. They'RE GONNA win a lot of games and then in the East I think <hes> The the box starring great position they did lose Malcolm Brogden but they were able to retain most of the rest of their roster. They're going to be a terrific two D. team all the way through their whole line up to me. They are the favorites in the one and last one for you you know so much carping carping in the direction of the Lakers from after magic did his made his first take appearance and we talked about a dumpster fire and El Segundo and what's going on in the front office now all the pieces of landed and I think this rosters much better than the one that they started last year with with. I'm wondering what you and the rest of the League or saying about the Lakers right now that they are in going into year two <hes> of Lebron with a bona fide topnotch top ails player and Anthony Davis there and the rest of the roster around him the way it is yeah I do. I did a story on this last week. <hes> I talked to ten or twelve people in the League to get their opinion on where the Lakers are and number one. They got Davis as you said so they get Davis and literally feel three guys like me. They're going to be better because they have to. They have hall of famers on their roster. Okay so that's obviously he'd secondly with the signings that they've made rich this summer way better fit around the broad last year. They were living under some dream while the Lebron was going to change the the way he played now. They're like we're GONNA. We're GonNa let Lebron play like he has for the last sixteen years which is he's going to control the ball. Let's get guys around him who can shoot better and can defend so they get avery Bradley they get Danny Green boy. They'd love to have Andrei with Allah if he can work out by. I don't know if that can happen but that would be amazing if they got him so they're they're. They're much better suited to surround Lebron with talent and they obviously have Anthony Davis so to me. They won thirty seven games last year. They are absolutely a fifty one team this year playoff team <hes> can can contend for a top four playoff seeding the west most people I talked to and I believe this myself as well. I don't see them as a championship team right now because I don't think they have and the flexibility I also don't think they have as good at shooters as you're going to need. They're better but they're not great and I and in the other thing is you're really relying on Lebron and they stay healthy if you missed significant time and I know that Lebron has it mistime time a lot in his career but he's coming off an injury plagued season. It's going to be difficult for them to maintain that high standing so angry they will set it over the weekend his press conference. I don't disagree with this. Give us give us a shot against any team and seven games completely agree but I think what the competitiveness the West and less a bunch of things fall into place. I don't see them as a championship team but I granted. I don't feel you know hugely strong about that but there's also the Palace Intrigue of the Coaching Staff and then I had this is the last one because you're the perfect person to ask Phil Handy of the Assistant <hes> from the raptors as well as previously from the cavs just got hired to be on the bench with Vogel and Jason Kidd and Lebron. It's amazing heated not tweet a damn thing about Vogel or kid but he tweeted about Ph he h his guy <hes> with Emoji thank you I mean that he tweeted that out. Yesterday's what's the significance of this hiring Brian. Well still handy is one of the most well respected <hes> development coaches in the league by the players players <hes>. I don't know if he's respected by everybody else. I mean he left Cleveland with a little bit of acrimony <hes> but <hes> extr you know he was the guy who was Kyrie irvings guy. He kept Kyrie Irving on the straight narrow when he was in Cleveland in Brooklyn. I would tried like hell to get him but maybe they did. I don't know <hes> so here's the thing I just learned this over. The last twenty years Lebron July is very different Lebron January the broadened July sits on the couch with the glass of wine. Talk Philosophy talks wants to change things that this was out the season be different the Brian January win at all costs. I don't care what my previous planned. He's been very supportive of Frank Vogel. He came to his press. This conference and I don't think that can be overstated. He has spent time throughout the summer in L._A.. Now ground. He's so me a movie here. They spent time in L._A.. Working with the young players working at the facility I assume building relationship the frank book he has been way more invested with Frank Vogel Than He has other previous times. You said first year coaches but the Lebron in January that I know I know that when the the belief goes down he will gravitate to the people that he trusts us and knows and that is Jason Kidd and <hes> and fill handy. This is what happened with David Blatt in Cleveland. He didn't have an going in respect for David although he does I think more for Vogel and when there was trouble early on and he gravitated to the guy that he knew which is tyler and as time went by it was very clear that Lebron only gravitated to Thailand so I don't know what he's going to do but my concern for Frank Vogel is that Lebron will be drawn more to those other coaches roaches in previous relationships with he again team U._S._A.. Rich he won a gold medal. Jason Kidd in two thousand eight chasing the point guard on that redeem team so we thought we were going to be watching very closely. It's very it's very difficult for a set of circumstances events for Frank Vogel to inherit <hes>. It's going to be a very difficult thing for him to pull off to the US. I knew that was a good question to ask you sir. You are the man <hes> Brian Windhorst. Thanks again. I will not forget your name when Training Camps Open Trust me on that okay. We'll be calling calling you tomorrow. You don't mind shows today. We still to our show to our shows down E._S._P._N.. On Agency were struggling. Let's go okay man. Well look the Broncos in full. Full on Wednesday and on top of it rookies and a whole bunch of places including Arizona Kawamori reporting. How does that sound for you on Wednesday? That's going to work the man Brian. Thanks thanks again for everything. You Bet. Thanks Brian Windhorst at Windhorst E._S._P._N.. On twitter I just how many times does he hang up from here and I say how great is this guy. He's the best man his information is solid. He'd never varnishes anything and he's <hes> just the way he delivers. It is fantastic and that was the Honda insider the report brought to you by the Honda CR V. independently stylish and available with realtime all wheel drive the C._R._V. is ready to team up for your next adventure so hurry into your local Honda dealer today. Mike del Tufo photographer of the stars. ooh I try wrenching knew that this is GonNa be fun. Don't you dare move. That's next on the rich Eisen. Show stay tuned for sixty seconds A._B._C.. News headlines Right after this podcast from Federal Soochow coverage to the back end joke of attune score champion saving two match points against to prevail number six in history and fifty seven minutes. That's <hes> on the Wimbledon Radio Channel. I guess since we're on a simulcast oh cast us the radio fowler in the McEnroe's were terrific love that they were awesome. Fowler is the Best <hes> so and that brings us to our poll question brought to you by man versus food on cooking channel Christopher. What are you over there? Okay two thousand nineteen has already been an insane sports here. They're yesterday's event was incredible what but it wasn't the most epic event of the year so far Joker Federal Wimbledon The U._S. women when the World Cup Tiger Woods Masters A._F._C. N._F._C. Championship weekend both games go to over. Yes both games go to overtime Tom one in which <hes> in the N._F._C. Championship game of changes the way that we will review on officiate assaulted little change resulted in a proposed rule change in the other game. I believe Cameron Jordan will choose another item when he comes into the rich Eisen show studio next hour. I'm guessing okay so go to our twitter account. I'm getting a lot of tweets for the Cricket World Cup final. Maybe the blues okay twitter only offers for option. They go so <hes> so I'm on twitter last night and I see a re tweeted tweet from Mike Del Tufo of somebody saying that his video was at video or photographs. Somebody's sitting multiple multiple photos and Paul McCartney played dodger stadium this weekend. You clearly had a great seat because you're close your instagram account at all all these photographs of him hanging out with Ringo Starr. That was the big thing that's finish of McCartney's U._S._O.. Tour he had ringo come out. He played a couple of tunes a Beatles reunion and you sir taking all these photographs they were used by the local channel hearing actually nationally last night on in Seattle right. No it was national is a personal. We're showing the king five video an N._B._C.. Affiliate in Seattle screen-grabbed taken by one of our viewers at Michael Del Tufo credited top right corner you at the upper right I mean how good were you seats close. I I was third row but I got moved up to the second okay. I was trying to be humble especially since we have shown from Woodland Hills California on the phone the only got about a minute for you hear Sean what's going on. Hey thanks for taking my call. Why are you calling it sean well? I was at the Paul McCartney concert at dodger stadium seventh row and I notice it in front of me was my del Tufo. I was excited so after the show so I got to meet him and I told him I'm big fan of the show and watching listen to you guys for years now untested Chanda. I showed him the drumstick that I caught because Ringo after he finished he threw it out in the audience and I Malcolm Butler the guy in front of me and I intercepted good fingering didn't run the drumstick instead yeah. It was an awesome weekend. I just wanted to share that with you guys pretty cool. We'll show you bro Congrats on getting those photos out there. Yeah I gotTa Tell You Sean John. It's getting photographs on Candy C. Here locally in Los Angeles and other affiliates nationally nothing however compares to a Ringo Starr Thrown drumstick in two thousand nineteen play with a souvenir from a Beatles reunion unbelievable. I can't believe it either. I'm still having come down from it Sean. Thanks for the call appreciate. Thank you guys thank you keep watching you got fan boyd but from Sean in Woodland Hills four five people notice me so who's more famous than dodger stadium. You're cody bellinger. Hold on you Justin Turner whose most famous you are Sandy Koufax. I think we haven't haven't gotten Larry King. Allow my seats. Were as good as Larry's. I mean in theory for the concert. You're that close carton. It was unbelievable. Who'd you sit next to? I sat next to some beautiful beautiful young ladies at work for the dodgers that were seat fillers colors because Ringo his wife and all them we're GONNA sit next to us and Joe Walsh came up at the end and they brought these outta nowhere. I'm like Solo and all of a sudden these four or five like younger women next next to me and I'm like Oh my God. They were amazing. What a night Mike Del tufo dodger Stadium Scotland Bleacher Report Camera Georgia the Saints Coming Up? Hello guys may fighter Shale L. Senate check out my podcast. You're welcome with jail son and every Wednesday and Friday right here at podcast one we cover the latest in mixed martial arts and everything else going on in the world of sport. Listen free to your welcome with jail son and exclusively exclusively available at podcast one dot com and on the podcast one APP. If you love the show share with a friend and leave us a rating and review the pros do it right to take their business to the next level by relying on trusted brands to get the job done lows here to help and help you save for your next job. Get a gallon of ice bar one coat transparent stained plus sealer starting at thirty five ninety eight and we now offer the little giant King Combo ladder the world's world's first steph extension and leading ladder giving you the flexibility to do just about any job for only one hundred fifty nine dollars for trusted brands that make the job easier do it for less star with lows U._S. Only A._p.. News is sponsored by A._D._T.. Real protection is professionally installed smart home security backed by twenty four seven monitoring our team will help you customize a system for your home including video doorbells indoor and outdoor cameras smart locks and lights that could be controlled from the A._D._T.. APP or the sound of your voice you can even help keep your loved one safe on the go with location sharing driving activity alerts and emergency S._O._S. button through the A._T.. Go APP that's A._D._T.. Real protection bending the tweets. I'm Ed Donahue with an A._p.. News Minute President Trump doc is defending his tweet calling for democratic congresswoman of color to go back to their broken and crime infested countries you complaining all the time very simply you can leave. You can leave right now. Come back. If you don't come back. It's okay to but if you're not happy you can leave. The President says critical comments don't concern him because many people agree with him. James Alex fields was sentenced to four hundred nineteen years in prison in Virginia. I'm just relieved Susan Bros.. Daughter Heather.
The Mental Toll of Quarantine
"They say that one in three Americans meet criteria for depression during the crossover crisis. But how do you draw the line between normal reactions to stress and psychiatric illness song Welcome to the car lot Psychiatry podcast keeping Psychiatry on since 2003. I'm Chris Steak in the editor-in-chief of the car lot Psychiatry report and I'm Kelly Newsome a psychiatric NP and a dedicated reader of every issue depression. Alcoholism opioid overdoses internet addiction problems have gone up since the outbreak of coronavirus. There are two reasons for the rise the virus brings with it a wave of stressors and infection with the virus has Direct effects on the brain causing a host of psychiatric disorders in this month's Car Lot report. We featured an update from Paul Reardon from duke on the CNS effects of coronavirus in khong. A handy table to help you classify and recognize the level of CNS involvement that the virus penetrates and in today's podcast will focus on the psychosocial effects off during the month of April 2020 alone the rate of depression in the US tripled from 9% to 28% compared to the rates in 2017-2018. That's according to a new study in Jama Psychiatry by Katherine hetman and colleagues at Boston University. They use the phq-9 a popular self screening tool for depression and compared the rates and over 6,000 adults from to population studies one from 2017-2018. And the other just after the outbreak in April 2012. Now this figures might seem high but they are consistent with the rates. We see after other tragedies like nine-eleven or the Ebola outbreak and the rates they're finding are even dead. here and studies of college students where one and two had moderate-to-severe depression get that that's 50% and one-in-five had Suicidal Thoughts after Yes, but how do we know that's real depression. I mean this was a self-screening instrument and maybe it's the cultural norm to endorse depression when the entire culture is under severe stress off. Like when people greet they say Hi, how are you and the normal responses? I'm fine. How are you? Even if you're not fine, but I think people feel more free to say they aren't doing so great job in this outbreak. That's a good point and no doubt some of what they're picking up on here is a normal stress reaction and not clinical depression. Even if the subjects did score above 10,000 phq waves of sadness and withdrawal or a normal part of life and in times like these it may be a sign of Health a sign that people are seeing things clearly and reacting to them quickly. I'm going through the phq now and it's really just a list of DSM-5 symptoms. Each one is rated 1 to 4, but we don't diagnose psychiatric illness based on symptoms. No one has a psychiatric illness unless it causes significant distress or impairment. The phq-9 actually does have a final item that asks about functioning how difficult do these symptoms make it to take care of responsibilities at work or in the home, but strangely in the final scoring that item is not necessary for the diagnosis in practice. That would be the most important and most difficult step in diagnosing depression. But what we're likely seeing here is an increase in normal stress reactions like adjustment disorder and an increase in depression and the fact that people are more unhappy during a global disease outbreak is really not breaking news. What I'm interested in is the outbreak causing true psychiatric Illness, but I log Closer at the data and I'll tell you it looks like it is what do you mean? Well, I looked at the rise and milder cases versus severe cases and honestly, I was expecting most of the injuries to be in milder cases. In other words that most of this is normal stress, but know when they broke it down by severity the increase in depression got steeper as the symptoms just more severe. Let me read you the numbers. I'm going to round up to simplify mild depression is twofold higher during the Cove it closest moderate depression or three Ford hire moderately severe depression four-fold higher and severe depression is 8 fold higher the phq instrument does not acknowledge that some of the Depression had picks up on may not warrant treatment, but based on prior research with the phq once the score is in the moderately severe or severe range. Found that treatment is almost always warranted and that is where we see the Ford eight fold increase here. The phq is available free online along with a similar screen for anxiety the gad7 a w w w p HQ screeners off the translated it into a hundred different languages and dialects but back to stress and depression. I am seeing a lot of patients coming in feeling worse. How do you distinguish between normal stress and clinical depression and times like these? Well, I have a definition of depression. That's a little different from the DSM. Although I borrowed it from the editor of dsm-4 Alan Francis in Two thousand thirteen thousand Francis wrote a book criticizing what he saw as the over-expansion of psychiatric diagnosis and DSM-5. It was called saving normal Kelly. Can you read what he wrote here? We can feel sadness grief worry anger disgust and her because these are all adaptive at times our emotions may temporarily get out of hand and caused considerable damage or impairment but homeostasis and time a great natural healers and most people resilient lie right themselves and regain their normal balance psychiatric disorder consists of symptoms and behaviors that are not self-correcting a breakdown in the normal homeostatic healing process. So, dr. Francis is suggesting that we all have symptoms of psychiatric illness from time to time irritability depression. Insomnia, even hallucinations can occur in normal people and that what characterizes psychiatric illness is, not the symptoms themselves, but the lack of adaptation in other words, it's when those depressive symptoms are no longer an Adaptive response to life that were in the realm of clinical depression. No, it's a lot easier to run a symptom checklist. Like they did in this study than to meaningfully assess whether someone is adapting well to life. So how would you do that right now during covid-19 covid presents with certain stressors like job loss isolation and health fears. So I'd look at how the patient was adapting to those stressors. Like are they looking for a job? Are they trying to find creative ways to connect with people during quarantine. One of my patients has his own way of distinguishing it he describes a kind of depressive sadness that draws him to do something about it and on the other hand, there's a depressive sadness that pulls him away from Life causes him to withdraw and become more passive. But what if they can't find a job or can't find anyone to connect with then? We might be moving into the arena of learned helplessness, which is an animal model of depression. That's fairly consistent with dr. Francis is definition learned helplessness is based on a classic experiment where a mouse was kept in a cage and the floor of the cage delivered constant electric shock. The mouse is initial reaction is not to give up or get depressed. Its to try harder and try to escape after a while though. It just lays there and gives up and it's at that point that the mouse had all the physiologic and behavioral symptoms of depression. It has learned to be helpless. How could you say it smart just conserving its energy? Yes, but here's where we see that the direction is not adaptive the researchers then raised the bars of the cage so that the mouse can escape but it doesn't even try anymore. It just lays there so it's hopelessness dead. Has become pervasive and it's unrealistic. That's a very sad story and we want to look for traces of that story in our patients. When we diagnose depression. Are they giving up in all areas off when they've only lost in one and can they see a way out on the bars are lifted. So if a person can't find a job or any meaningful social connection, I would ask if they've made any sort of changes to their life during covert being homebound awful, but it's also a time to start a new hobby. Like I've seen patients take up gardening musical instruments home cooking reading even genealogy worth getting a job is really critical and they don't have any ideas. I'd want to know if they're taking online courses to build new skills. The way that symptoms change over time is also really important. That's why the DSM has that two-week cut off for depression because it may be normal to stay in bed and withdraw for a few days after major stress. It can even be adaptive like you need time to rethink how you're approaching everything someone who does that is likely to change on their own and come out of it on our own because after a while it gets boring and you're going stir-crazy and you want to take some action. That's a healthy feedback loop what dr. Francis called homeostasis, which is the tendency of the body to maintain balance. So an example would be the more you drink water the less you want to drink it there's balance and that's the most critical balance in the body at home. We would die if we drink too much water. And the more you stay in bed the less you want to stay in bed and withdraw hopefully nearly every physiologic system in the body operates through homeostasis. There are a few exceptions and they are rare events like blood clotting childbirth and ovulation and dr. Francis is suggesting that mental illness is really a breakdown of homeostasis off when homeostasis breaks down people stop responding to their environment. They stop adapting. That's what clinical depression is to me. I get that because homeostasis is like the body's natural defense against oppression. And when that breaks down the person is going to need outside help with a therapy or with medication. Yes, homeostasis breaks down in other mental illnesses to like an addiction where Society is never reached panic disorder where they become afraid of panic attacks, which just causes more anxiety and more contacts when homeostasis breaks down in depression the patient becomes avoidant inactive they stop taking risks and they stop changing. They are unmoving much off the mouse in that cage. They react to every situation in the same few ways with anxiety defeat rejection, and they no longer learn from their environment off. Behind that breakdown is a change in thinking judgment and problem-solving. It's not just that they feel bad but that their mind is no longer working like it used to most of my patients with chronic depression or able to tell me when it's reached that level, you know, people with chronic depression do tend to have a lot of stress in their lives. So they often do feel bad sad even depressed wage. In other words. They have normal waves of sadness just like anybody does in their life, but because they also have this depressive illness. It's really important to play RFI with them depression is not defined by feelings and look for other markers of their own depression. Yes, I've noticed that people with mood disorders can become afraid of their own feelings as if every page of anger or sadness is going to trigger a new episode, but we know from mindfulness research that when people accept their interstate and allow their feelings to come and go without judging them. It lowers their job. It's of going back into depression. Yes, many patients with bipolar and chronic depression have been told that they have an emotional disorder or that they're too emotional and they appreciate just kind of education because it's less stigmatizing and it's also empowering because it gives them something to do. They are no longer passive victims of depression if they see early signs coming on Earth that can intervene early before that homeostatic mechanism breaks down. The best early intervention is to do the opposite of what their emotions are guiding them to do to get more active and try new things take on risks instead of avoiding. Okay. So back to this research perhaps it's better to say that 30% of people are showing early signs of depression during covid-19. You've hit on something very important here. You can't diagnose depression with a snapshot of symptoms. You need to know how those symptoms are changing over time if they're getting better. Even if it's slow then there's probably some self-correcting homeostatic mechanism at play and you don't need to intervene things are moving in the right direction already when patients come in with a lot of symptoms after a major stress a lot and ask them. Do you think the way you're feeling is going to get better with time? Can you see a light at the end of the tunnel or do you feel like you're sinking? No matter what God that's a great question and most patients have a good sense of that. Sometimes though. I will see someone who keeps saying it's not depression. It's just stress it will get better and yet they look worse and worse it each visit it helps to keep track and the phq-9 is a great tool to track symptoms. I run a modified version of it at every visit. What I'll do then is I'll show the birth. And their graph and I'll say look at each visit. You've said it's only temporary but your symptoms are steadily getting worse month by month. I'm wondering if we need to do something different this turnaround off and that might be a medication change or it could be a change in your lifestyle or starting Psychotherapy. Why do you use a modified version of the phq-9? There's a movement to use more patient-centered outcomes. The phq-9 is research centered. You mentioned that every item on it corresponds to one of the DSM criteria for depression. That's great for making stands diagnosis screening and research but patients don't really care if they fit in the DSM criteria or not. They have their own goals in mind and we should be rating those as we follow their progress now on the other hand. We do want the rating to match somewhat with the DSM because we need to track symptoms that are likely to change with the medication. Anyway, that's just a long way of saying that wage. Starter a can get to the point. So how did you change the scale two things? The phq-9 does not rate anxiety and for patients with depression anxiety as often what bothers them the month so it's important to follow now anxiety tells us nothing about the diagnosis but it's a good measure of their progress. Also, the phq-9 doesn't need a good measure of functioning. So I added one in trouble making decisions concentrating planning or organizing that measure has been very interesting because I've noticed that when people came in under stress, but they're not clinically depressed. They'll rate depression and anxiety very high, but they won't have any indecision or concentration problems acute stress sharpens your concentration as it should because you need to be sharp and decisive when the slings and arrows are coming at you. To make that even more patient-centered just ask the patient if this treatment works for you. What do you want to see get better and then rate that at each visit still from the numbers in this study? It looks like depressive symptoms are on the rise for everyone and their Rising even more for those with clinical depression. I find little consolation in these figures and little reason to be optimistic about the mental health of the population. I agree, but I'm an eternal optimist and I do see some hope what's that covid-19? It going but during these covid-19. I'm it's okay to be real and say thanks for asking. It's really not going so great. So you're likely to see a lot of people come in with elevator distress during covid-19. You measure that with a phq-9 or gad7 or just ask them but the phq-9 is just a screening instrument. It tells us that the person may have depression but we have to do the more difficult work of figuring out if they really do that means we need to ask how they are living day-to-day and how they're managing stress. We need to get a sense of their judgment and problem-solving ability and ultimately figure out if the problem is likely to resolve on its own or needs our intervention. And now for the word of the day depression the word Depression was first used in medicine by cardiologists in the 18000s who used it to describe a reduction in cardiac functioning psychiatrist soon adopted it and at first appeared in medical dictionaries in the 1860s where it was defined as lowness of spirits in persons suffering under disease the word caught on in part because it suggested a physiologic cause and because of suggested the opposite of mania which is how this mood disorder came to be conceptualized in the late eighteen hundreds. Quote depression is the state opposed to excitation it consists of a reduction in general activity ranging from minor failures and concentration to total paralysis read in eighteen eighty-five text book by Immanuel Regis. And here's a sample of the colorful ways that psychiatrist describe depression before the DSM locked us in the nine criteria that we know it by today thinking of the spirits lack of courage or initiative tendency toward gloomy thoughts sleep as long as she's done refreshing psychiatric writers in the 18000s also duly noted that cardiac function was depressed during this mood disorder peripheral circulation is sluggish the extremities cold and cyanotic the pulses small of low tension. Sometimes slowed. The heart sounds are muffled. And these authors emphasized the dog. Garments of executive function that Mark the illness the patient is indifferent towards everything and the execution of the simplest act necessitates and efforts so great at times for the patient give up the attempt there is very marked weakening of the attention and a considerable sluggishness of the association of ideas and intellectual exertions such as the narration of an event or a small calculation. It's impossible. It can be accomplished only after repeated and painful efforts though. The Lucidity is intact the perceptions are incomplete uncertain enough in an accurate and patient feels that it's changed ill and it seems to him that his mind is paralyzed tune into 60 seconds like this Wednesday and join us next Monday for a special patient education edition of the podcast the patient's guide to lithium and audio guide you can share with your patience. Did you know that subscribers get access to all of the past articles on our website subscribe now and get thirty bucks off with a promo code podcast, you'll get see any credits for the year twenty-twenty as well as an option for those hard-to-find maintenance of certification credits and you'll help us stay free of commercial support.
August 17th - National Nonprofit Day with Hannah Hethmon
"Hey, this is bowl condo. This is the podcast Gumbo podcast and I've got a rhetorical question for you. Are you like me and find those things. We call national days like cheese ball day or worse moldy cheese day amusing. Yeah me too. So each week. One of my podcast friends challenged me to find an episode related to one of those days and I'll be releasing it on the actual day occurs. So let's get to it. What is today's National Day? Hey Paul this is Hannah Hessman August. Seventeenth is national nonprofit day. My favorite kind of nonprofits are museums. Of course, all our favourite museums are locked down right now struggling to get through this virus like the rest of us. So I thought we'd celebrate them a little and I challenge you on that note to find a great podcast created by a museum. Go. Well Hannah under most other circumstances, this would have been a minor challenge. But as it turns out, we have a mutual friend that has a podcast about museums and that same friend was my eighth guest on this show. For my first recommendation, I'm going with museum archipelago. When the host Ian Elsner was my guest I mentioned an old episode about the Apollo Eleven landing site. But I'm not going to take the easy way out and I'm going to suggest to newer and very relevant topic statues. In this episode and talks about the relationship statues and museums, he goes into the tearing down toward causton statue and one of his guests talks about the slippery slope. So to celebrate this National Nonprofit Day learn about a nonprofit consider donating time or money to one that you believe in and let us know using the National Nonprofit Day Hashtag. Today's guest is Hannah Hetman. Hannah's the writer and producer of the Vagina Museum podcast. Yes. You heard that correctly. In New York there is a sex museum which I've been to. In Iceland, there is a Pinas Museum which I haven't been to. And now there is a Johnny Museum which opened in London in two thousand and nineteen. The podcast. Liked the museum is all about smashing shame and stigma around the vagina through awareness education and route puns. The first and recommended episode is entitled. See you next Tuesday as in the letter C. and the letter, you would you like me to wait for you to figure it out. As most people know there are many terms for the vagina, but there is one that stands out as the most offensive if you still haven't figured it out, it starts with the letter C and ends would Tuesday? This episode answers a lot of questions about that specific word. For last recommendation Hannah recommends if people saw that slavery was getting started why didn't they stop it by Q. and Abe? She says and I quote. This podcast is produced totally in house by President Lincoln's cottage in DC. They take questions from their guests. They can't answer at the moment and die super deep into them with the help of historians to address big ideas in American history loosely connected to Abraham. Lincoln. Of course, but it's so much more than a podcast about Lincoln Unquote. For. Today's episode hot sauce. I'm going to relay on link that Hannah gave me. If I got stuck trying to find an episode related to this day. Hanna is the owner of better lemon creative audio that produces podcast for museums, history organizations, and cultural nonprofits. So check out the director she created that anyone can add to. Come back on August, twenty fifth where I'll be talking about close a topic I have no business talking about. As always take a look at the show notes for links to all the podcasts mentioned in this episode as well as other life altering information. To make it easy for you. There's also a link to a podcast playlist that will contain all the episodes ever mentioned in the show. See you next week some time for another round of recommendations. Are. You still listening. Do you still want more podcast goodness if so get on over to podcast Gumbo, DOT COM, and subscribe to my newsletter today.
41: The Red (M&M) Scare
"Before we start this episode I wanted to minute and tell you about business insider prime. It's like business insider but goes even deeper taking you behind the scenes of companies like Lincoln and salesforce. So you can see what's really happening. It's more than just headlines and breaking news it's about the culture and the decisions that drive the news checkup these stories and more by joining at read be I slash podcast. It's easy to do once again. That's read dot by slash podcast. Hey so what have we got today? So I'm going to tell you the real story by the red scare of the nineteen seventies and I'm not talking about the Cold War but at different red scare that. I think you'll probably remember when you were a kid or are you calling me old. Kelly I would never you are experienced. Okay experience I'll take that but okay so last year on our show we did customer service segment about Sour Patch. Kids and you know why they're shaped like children rights super weird but anyway episode thirty six. Check it out if you haven't already but anyway well trying to answer that question. I met a guy named Jason League who you may remember as the Indiana Jones of candy. Dont that he was like this candy. Collector historian dude. Yeah and I really wanted the two of you to meet cy arranged for all of us to hang out together in our studio. Ooh Hello Yeah he and I totally hit it off and not used to this. Surely booth was albums. Immediately Youtube Tacoma this great nostalgia trip of conversation about land of the lost and all the playground snacks. That could take a kid out in the seventies pop. Brian exactly what you were gonNA say pop rocks and so and Coca Cola now ranked them and Mikey from as life. Cereal died because he ate pump. Rugs and a coke at the same time right. Oh Yeah I mean it's not true but yes of course yes amazing story the kid eight eight some pop rocks then. Drink Coca Cola. The carbonation expanded his stomach and exploded his entire dom. Not just any kid. Mikey he likes it from cereal. Commercials it was like tying all these amazing iconic brands together in one physiological moment of doom. I mean you know how kids are the so and so said. They're big brother's best friend heard from their aunt. Something about Mikey pop rocks and there you go. The story sticks actually remember no Internet elementary school. The story was that twinkie fillings. Were made out of Ping Pong. That's I don't think I've heard that's ridiculous But while there's not a lot of evidence to back that theory up or the idea that might be eight pop rocks and useful exploded. Jason told spot one playground rumor. That did have a little bit of truth to it. And it's one a lot of people remember in the nineteen seventies red M. and M.'s. Were pulled off the market because the FDA was worried red food dye might be giving people cancer for the record read. M.'s safe to eat but still the thing was a far more real story because it actually happened so because they were pulled from market it actually gave credence to the belief that it was a problem. Yes it absolutely gave credence to this idea. And in my young head that was story that Red M. and M.'s caused cancer people. That's why they pulled them from business. Insider this is brought to you by Granville brands. Now stories you don't. I'm charming. Mcdonald's Long Corridor in nineteen seventy six Mars the maker of EMINEM's polled red imminence from the market. Not Because the candy was proven to cause cancer but because people were afraid that it might it all started with a series flawed experiments from the Soviet Union studies which ignited a red food coloring scare in America that made its way all the way to Congress and the Food and Drug Administration but after many many years the Red Eminem's returned and their impacts. Today and for that you might be able to think of college kid in Tennessee and his inside. Joep that took on a life of its own. Stay with us Sarah were we early nineteen seventy. I remember pretty well and everyone was freaking out about a type of food. Coloring called red number two. It was in soft drinks candy cosmetics fish and meat products it was everywhere about ten billion dollars worth of food products in the United States. Use The die and the FDA was investigating whether or not it could be causing cancer and birth defects. Red Dye number two under attack is a threat to reproduction the newspaper headlines at the time were objectively terrified red dye is called a peril to births. Native Group says food is dangerous. Consumer groups asked ban toxic. Red died number to wait red dye number two. I mean I do remember something about it being connected to cancer. Does it cause cancer? The FDA spent years trying to figure that out and what set them down this path of studying this issue and trying to respond to growing fears among American consumers. It all started in of all places the Soviet Union the Reds Communists. Now it's making sense between nineteen sixty eight and nineteen. Seventy scientists in. The Soviet Union published three studies researching the Safety of Amaranth Aka. Red Dye number to all the studies were done on rats and the first one said Amaranth caused intestinal tumors. The second one said it was and I'm quoting here. A. Carcinogen of medium strength. And then the third one said it was toxic to the GONADS and possibly to Embryos. That sounds pretty conclusive stay away from Amaranth Red Dye number two especially if you're a rat and the Soviet government clearly thought so too because they banned the use of dynevor two in foods at that point so then the FDA must've learned about these studies and then they decided to ban it here as well. That's where you're wrong charlie okay. Fda did find out about the studies but pretty immediately the identified all of these flaws in the research methodology that the Soviet scientists were using like for example. The rats species they were testing on was prone to tumors to begin with it was also super unclear. What exactly the rats were being fed. And then in some of the studies rats who were fed smaller doses actually ended up developing more TUMORS THAN RATS. Who got higher doses? That does not make any sense. I mean that seems to raise questions about whether or not red dye number two is causing any of the tumors the FDA would agree with you. But you have to remember at this point. Red Dye number two was being used in ten billion dollars worth of American food products or prior to nineteen seventy. I was probably the most commonly used Colorado on the market. John Swan is an historian at the US FDA which in case you haven't figured it out by now is the food and Drug Administration and he told me even though those Russian studies looked pretty sketchy the FDA was taking the safety of red number two really seriously it would be used in in the food supply and things. Like Sodas and ice cream moves used in lipstick and other cosmetics for drugs it was. It was all over the marketplace. I mean it was very popular so the FDA responded by getting the National Academy of Sciences Involved in launching a crash program to get a bunch of new data about red eye number two affected rats. John Swan says they moved fast. So the FDA came back with its own research and it must have found something because it ban red eye number two. The Soviet studies the kick started this whole thing. A lot of the experiments in the crash program were scientific fiascos. The most famous one is probably one experiment. Fda conducted where a bunch of basic errors took place. We're talking junior high school biology level mess ups unfortunately during the course of this study some of the groups from the feeding groups became intermingled. Oh so the rats got mixed up a yes. Some did some didn't get mixed up. Wait so they lost track of which ones they fed the die to and which ones they had and then on top of that when the rats died over the course of the study many of them were just left in their cages. Which meant that? When they went to do research like autopsies later. Exactly try to figure out like where they had tumors if it could be associated with the die. None of that was valid because the bodies of the rats were rotting. It's like doing a study that we forgot. We're doing a study. Obviously it was. It was a problem and certainly i. I suspect an embarrassment to those involved by this. Point Ralph Nader. The famous. Consumer advocate had caught wind the Russian studies and the FDA's research and as early as nineteen seventy-one. He and his health research group were lobbying Congress to ban red number two. And that's the reason why was banned. Scientists were still struggling to pull off a clean experiment to prove that it was dangerous and in the span of six years. Charlie FOR THAN THIRTY STUDIES OF RED DYE number two were conducted by private industry independent laboratories and the FDA but in the meantime the American public was cutting onto what was going on with red food coloring. And all these studies even if confusing or poorly done or not conclusive by nineteen seventy six. The new stories being written about them sound did pretty intents march of dimes urges. A band for now on red number two food to the abortion pill. You may not want so dangerous that if a one hundred and ten pound pregnant woman drinks more than a third of a can of Strawberry Soda pop the day she risked either cancer or damaging her baby she rages. There is no way consumers can know if they're eating. The die is called a Red Dye number two forces immense recall by FDA recalls children's lollipops. Red Number two was in the newspapers who was on radio and Television. Wayne Pines worked FDA during the nineteen seventy s spokesperson. And so that was my job to see to it that those stories were accurate pints told me. Fd was not used to being on the front pages of newspapers. This was all happening before the agency really became a household name in the US right because after red food coloring in the seventies and eighties. I remember there were other. Food scares and confusing studies that involve the FDA One that stands out to me is Saccharin and tab sodas not that I drink them and there was some sort of rumor that they could cause cancer. I mean I remember that being a big deal. Yeah and part of the reason Pines remembers the Red Dye number to scare so while is because this was like we're that Arab began for him. This was really his first page one story. So what point did you realize that this was not going to be a story that blew over in a day a think when consumers started to call and ask for a list of products that contain red number two so customers are seeing the product that almost all of them are coming in contact with maybe on a daily basis and the word cancer in the same sentence and so they're panicking again. It hasn't been shown to gauze cancer but cancer came up because studies did not show that it did not cause cancer right. Wait that takes me. That's one of those after stop and think for a moment so it doesn't prove its cancer but it doesn't prove that it's not. It's not not cancer Charlie. So basically what they're saying is we can't prove that this is safe. It might be safe. We're not saying it's dangerous. And if we believed to be imminently dangerous it would not be on the market however working on proving that it's safe. Wow that's a lot to. That's a lot to absorb because you're basically saying we think it's safe but we can't guarantee that it's safe and we're continuing to study it so you're probably fine but consumer beware and keep in mind while all of this is happening. Red Number two is out there. Choppers are grabbing it off a grocery store shelves and eating it in the form of ice cream and soda and canned fruit and meat going to supermarket is like playing minesweeper with red dye number. Two I mean I remember my family. Those little plastic squishy bottles with Diane Them. They had little dunce caps on the top. And if I wanted to use the red one I can remember asking my mom like hey can use the red dye to make cupcakes and it was just you know. Stay away from that one and the other colors go down to almost nothing. I think I think in my dad's house ties may still be there. Yeah I mean there was a lot of confusion about whether or not it was actually dangerous. And let's because the FDA was still working on figuring that out right. But I think the other thing that gets lost in how the media talked about this and how consumers reacted to this is what was going on at the. Fda was scientific research and while I totally understand the consumer impulse to want to know right now in the moment whether the dye their children were eating was dangerous. Also think a lot of people lost sight of the fact that rigorous scientific research is a really complicated process that takes time and to answer a question like does Red Dye number to cause cancer unique years worth of research controlling for all kinds of different variables and that process. Just doesn't happen at the same speed as a new cycle but in nineteen seventy six. The FDA finally made a decision about red dye number. Two David Gaylard the principal biological statistician at the FDA was asked to do an analysis looking at the body of research that had been conducted and then to come back with an answer about what to do. Here's John Swan the FDA historian so gaylard came back within about less than a month and offered his take on the FDA study. Which essentially was that? There was a statistically significant suggestion that red number to die could result in malignant tumors in aged female mental Osborne Rats. What does that mean? Well it means that could cause cancer according to Galas Analysis. So that's what finally did it. That was the last nail in the coffin for red eye number two but to be clear gillers statistical analysis did not prove that. Redeye number two caused cancer. It just gave the FDA enough reasons to feel like they couldn't say it was safe either and within a couple of weeks the FDA commissioner released a statement. We have recently learned that our latest study cannot establish the safety of red number two indeed raises against certain safety questions revoking FDA's provisional approval of the die and emphasizing that it was on manufacturers to prove it was if they wanted it back on the market and to replace it they brought in die called red number forty. So what you're telling me. Is that it to several years to prove it involved a lot of bad science and some poor communication and bit consumer panic but in the end read Eminem's might possibly could actually maybe cause cancer. No Charlie red. Fm's weren't even using red number to wait what they were using red dye number forty the die that replaced red number two the entire time. So wait wait why. Then we're red EMINEM's pulled off the market if they didn't even use red dye number two. I asked that question and a spokesperson told me. Color has always been an essential attribute of EMINEM's brand and we make changes throughout the life of a brand. They also confirmed red. Eminem's were not using red number two at the time of the red scare but just looking at the situation in one thousand nine hundred ninety six one red number two was banned. I mean it didn't seem to matter to people that there wasn't evidence that it caused cancer. It didn't matter that EMINEM's weren't even using the same die because Wayne Pines FDA spokesperson. His phone was already ringing off the hook of the time. The band was announced. Everybody wanted to know whether the red M. and M.'s cause cancer really. Why do you think they were so fixated on Red Eminem's of all things when everything had red dye in it don't know don't know red food? Coloring had become such a hot topic. That Mars probably just didn't want anything to do with it. In fact we know that's the case because they're oppressed people in nineteen seventy six set as much to reporters and honestly if the FDA couldn't explain the difference between red number two and all other red food coloring to the public why on Earth would Mars WanNa sign up for that job so January first nineteen seventy seven the random and machines ground to a halt Mars factories. And the M lovers aren't seeing red nucleus rare as a REMM face it. There just aren't any red eminem's left and across the country. People like John Swan who grew up to become an historian at FDA. He ripped open a pack of EMINEM's only to find them one color less exciting than they'd been the day before I personally remembered the red m. and M.'s going away but you know what I didn't mind so much because the caramel colored ones were my favorites. I realized there's no flavoring added to the coating spent. I still say the cardinals were the best. I find it sort of amazing that with all these bungled studies and the confusion miscommunication the most lasting symbol of the red food. Colouring scare is the rat. Emma now I think I get that I mean. That's what consumers saw that the red EMINEM's absence was you know. Is this proof that the red scare wasn't all nate up that there was maybe some sort of issue there when it came to red food coloring. Sure but I mean like this was so much bigger than the random like red number two stumped. Multiple governments obsessed the media. It made all of us heggie around food coloring for decades Lamba wrapped up in these gigantic questions about public health and science and the news cycle but none of it actually anything to do with MS. But I guess because Mars pulled them off the market. Anyway that was all the proof. Anyone needed But the red imminence did not stay away forever after the break. Our Lonely College student. Tennessee came up with an elaborate prank. That spiraled into something. No one saw coming. If you're enjoying the story then you should really check out. Business Insider Prime Prime examines. What drives some of today's most talked about? Companies we work Goldman Sachs Airbnb it features stories about the people making headlines. Ray Dolly O. Sachin Adela Elon. Musk if you're like me and you love stories that give you that behind the scenes. Feel like you're there in the room where the decisions are being made. Well that's would be I. Prime is like you can get instant access to all these stories and more by joining today. Just go to read dot Pi Slash podcast and tried out for just one dollar for the first month or choose an annual membership and get a special discount on the price. Check it out at read dot by slash podcast. We're back if I go to a store today and buy a pack of EMINEM's and open it up I'm gonNA find six colors inside. Blue Yellow Green Orange Brown and Red Red. Red Is back. So how did this happen? How did the Red Eminem go from being a symbol of this red food coloring scare for so many of us back to business as usual? That is thanks in part to a guy named Paul Hetman Paul Hetman. He's scientist he worked at M. and M.'s. Paul was a college student at the University of Tennessee. And if you don't mind Charlie Paul and I are going to take the story from here. All right. Green eminem go so like many of us. Paul Hoffman opened a pack or two of EMINEM'S IN HIS YOUTH. But when he was growing up back in the seventies the inside of the bag looked very different. You had dark Brown Light Brown Orange Yellow Green. But I mean except for green. He had like a bunch of all colors. It's fifty shades of Beige right. It was just a bunch of little. You know dark chocolate chips. Basically wasn't very exciting. Not Very exciting. Sounds to me like sort of branding strategy in the wake of the red scare and if it was a branding strategy. It was working because Paul and his friends were not scared of Redman APPs. It was just kind of like a running joke in my little. Click and I think it was like a little bit anti-establishment or whatever you know talking about I you know we can't have read Eminem's anymore because all the rats died. I mean I didn't really know the details. It was just like yeah. Rats Ate Red Dye. They died when Paul and his friends graduated. High school all moved away from the little town where they grew up in northwest. Tennessee and Paul ended up alone at the University of Tennessee in Knoxville. The first couple months of college felt slow and it got Paul Thinking Man. I'm just kind of a little bit lonely. A little bit bored. What am I GONNA do here? And for some reason I just got this wild ideal that you know. I'll do this for a fun thing for my friends Paul decided to create a mock advocacy group calling for the return of red and then in the style of other spam marketing mill. He'd seen he sent out an invitation to each of his friends typed up on custom letterhead so the letter started. Uh said you. I'm the Comma and then there was a line printed on the piece of paper have been invited to join the Society for the restoration and preservation of red eminem's and I hand wrote everybody all my friends names in there. You know so you Sarah. Wyman have been invited to join the Society for the restoration and preservation red initiatives and then the letter said and what the Hell is to society for the restoration preservation of red m. and M.'s. The society was supposed to be an elaborate joke and over the top parody of direct mail fundraising campaign but before long. It started to take on all the trappings of a real society including the costs. So nine hundred eighty two freshmen in college and I wasted a hundred dollars which was a fortune on having this letterhead stuff printed up and little business cards which was your membership card of course and stuff and just send it out to my friends just as a way to say hi let going to say. Did it ever occur to you that this was so much work for a joke? No not at all the best practical jokes things like this. They take effort. You can't you can't just do just on the spur of the moment you have to put effort into people appreciate it for just ninety nine cents. New Members of the Society for the restoration and preservation of EMINEM's could receive a branded membership card signed by Paul the President and chairman of the board as well as five sheets of official letterhead and five official envelopes. Pulse now white was just a friend at the time sent in her membership fee by individually taping ninety nine pennies to the back of Paul's mailer before returning it to him. Another friend thought the whole thing was so funny that he wrote up a column about it in the University of Tennessee student paper. And that's honestly that's where it's like. Yeah Okay it's it's over went about my business you know in the winter and the spring and then all of a sudden I get a call and it's a writer from Seventeen magazine. The reporter had gotten a copy of the story. Pulse Perenco via news clipping service. Paul Talk to her a couple of times pulled or his version of events and then he sort of forgot about the whole thing until a couple of months leader. Get ANOTHER CALL. And it's like hi. I'm so and so I'm with the Wall Street Journal. I've got a friend who writes for Seventeen magazine and she was telling me about this red eminem thing and I was like okay. Sure no clue. I mean I'm clueless like Wall Street. Journal. I've heard of that. What is that turns out a couple other people had also heard of the Wall Street Journal and after Paul Story ran lots of them wanted to know more about his society all of a sudden I was fodder for every radio morning drive show in the United States. Prospective members started sending letters to pulse pillbox from all over the English speaking World Australia New Zealand Britain most of Canada states across the US and those letters included all kinds of stuff. One of the letters. I got one day had this little decrepit looking Red Eminem in it. Somebody had held onto a red venom from the early seventies before the red scare and sent it to Paul as a token of their appreciation. It might have been a rhythm and him. It might have been something else. It was definitely the right shape. It was a bit faded and cracked and old and definitely wouldn't need it but another highlight Paul got a membership requests in the mail from the marketing director of Eminem Mars and he used a company check to pay for his membership. Of course. I was so broke as a college student. I cashed the check instead of keeping. It should've kept it. Yeah but those funds had to go to the cops like that's the thing. Paul hadn't really thought through the societies operating budget before he pulled the trigger and now he was getting hundreds of letters in the mail responding to each membership request. Cost him around two dollars so also and it was like. Hey this is like cost to me real money. There were times when it actually. I mean I'd get ten or twenty letters a day in the post office box. You know want to try to answer so you know between class load and work and stuff like that. It was a bit of a challenge at times. You became like a fulltime employees a fake charity. Yes and it was definitely a nonprofit jer but as the society started to really pick up steam the perks of Paul's President and Chairman of the board GIG leveled up to like at one point. Charles Kuralt the famous. Cbs News Anchor stopped by Pulse College apartment to interview him in the living room for his show on the road with Charles. Kuralt and Paul almost scored an invitation late night with David Letterman. Which would have been really cool if it had panned out. But unbeknownst to Paul the real payout was waiting just a couple of years down the road in nineteen eighty seven so at that point I had graduated and I was actually working as a commercial photographer here in Knoxville and I was at the studio and all the sudden you know I get a call. Somebody asking about EMINEM's ended so it'd been like a year year and a half since I've done something with it right so it wasn't anything as talk to that person hung up and you know an hour later somebody else called and like okay. Yeah I was. I'm him you know. Yes I did that Blah Blah Blah and finally then like a third person call and I'm talking to him and then finally like why are y'all calling me today and they go with a Heaven told you told me what they're bringing back Redmond M.'s and that's how I found out red EMINEM's back for the next generation return of red M. and M.'s delights knoxville campaign in the world is a little less drab for Paul Hetman? Paul S. Heiferman is feeling like a champion these days as well. He should how many among us can say that we've changed the world. Did you feel powerful in that movie? I wouldn't say powerful You know you change the course of history. Yeah I guess so. Yeah lighthearted history but yeah I guess a couple of days later. Paul got a letter in the mail from the Public Relations Director at Mars. The letter started dear. Paul good things do happen to those who wait. Although we have never met I have followed with interest the society for the restoration and preservation of red EMINEM's and employees to be able to share some news. I think you'll enjoy receiving he also sent along a little. Thank you of sorts. It was two boxes. Cardboard boxes probably being sixteen or eighteen inches on aside full of Eminem's and only read Paul and sprints through a party at the end of the night all the red m. and M.'s. Were Gone Charlie. I like to think we got the random back because of Paul like it wasn't because the food coloring scare had died down or because of a promotion it was because a kid in Tennessee. Set Out loud which all of us were thinking. We want read Eminem's in reality. It was probably a lot more complicated but for once in the saga of the random. I would love for it to just that simple. It's funny I've been thinking a lot. About what all this means and I wonder. Do you feel like there are any lake takeaways here. Like what is the legacy of this campaign Legacy yes there is. We were all taught lessons by that. Little Red Eminem the FDA the candy maker and us that's after the break a bi prime is like business insider but offers even more insights into the day's news goes behind the scenes of the companies. You know giving you indepth reports about the business world and the people who are making the key decisions this week. I caught up on B. I. Primes coverage of linked in and whites making a massive shift to Microsoft's cloud? There's also a story about Google and how some analysts are predicting. It could catch up with Amazon's web services with a strategic but expensive acquisition to read those stories and more join today at read dot com slash. Podcast that's read dot. Bi Slash podcast. We're back when Sarah and I are in the studio Jason Leib. The candyman and the inspiration for the story with a list of questions for him about Eminem's and the red scare but I also really wanted to ask him about this advertisement. Mems ran in two thousand eight which we saw on his website. I'm what the heck is this illusion. That was just from a they did. It's very Soviet. Nineteen thirty S era propaganda inspired poster incredibly designed it says resolution is now and it's got the surreally conspired lettering with backwards letters and it says vote read at the bottom but it's got the sort of proletariat the workers down below marching with flags and it's got the Red Eminem FM with his fist up in the air it's got a very shake bora sort of Beret with a star on a Red Star. Red Star yes. I mean it's very Soviet. Apparently this ad ran as part of an eminence campaign in Australia and New Zealand. Mars made a bunch of posters. Like this one one. Each color all of them had different themes and fans were encouraged to vote for their favorite character like Red Blue Green. Yeah I mean it. Most certainly is just a weird coincidence but still bold move Mars advertising the Red Eminem with the Soviet Union style propaganda poster for an election. Do you think Mars is laughing at the joke here? Do you think they're totally oblivious to that connection? I would like to think there's someone at Mars is like this is going to be too good. 'cause he's Red Red scare he was the REMM got pulled because of the Russian Red Scare Hours. Just to perfect yeah. I hope that someone did that if they weren't aware of it. It's just a great of accidental genius. Because this kind of ingenious represents all the solo even if there's no connection between this particular campaign and the red food coloring scare fears about red food. Coloring did have a huge impact on Mars as we saw. It pulled the red eminem when the public got vocal. And according to a company spokesperson. It brought the Red Eminem back years later because of consumer demand in other words after. People like Paul Hoffman and his society asked for it back. Jason pointed out that the whole experience taught Eminem's something important they realize maybe for the first time the real relationship that consumers had to their brand and I was so grateful when I started doing all this research going through all my stuff. I don't even think I realized it at first because I have so many of these things I realized I had one of the packages that welcomed read back into the packaging. They talk about right on there. They've read Eminem. They don't quite get into these. Things were banned for ten years. They just say look now even more colorful and I think for the first time eminem's realized this is an opportunity we brought back read. That was a specific thing that we stopped doing but we could maybe make marketing event around introducing other colors and for the next fifteen years you would see them do a new color promotion every year to on its surface. This is all funny and lighthearted real happy ending to the story. But let's not forget that EMINEM's branding renaissance may have come about because the American public's but a decade being suspicious of that used Red Dye. And if you ask me that feels pretty messed up. Like the fact that Mars felt it had to discontinue eminem's just because they were read when they weren't even using the food coloring that was being investigated not feels like a really clear sign that like we the public the press companies like Mars. We were not clear on the problem. We didn't understand what potential danger was even being discussed during the red scare and when we're making decisions about public health and Tamsir and product safety. I feel like we all at least be clear on what conversation we're having when Pines former FDA spokesperson. He told me he still sees this as a huge concern. I don't blame the public for being confused about science because we are inundated with scientific studies and it's hard to distinguish the good from the bad right like trying to keep track of. I don't know whether or not caffeine is supposed to be good for you these days. It's impossible and it feels like every day there's a new story with a new study with different results and I am going to keep drinking coffee no matter what look. I'm a journalist and I get it. Sometimes we have to simplify complicated stories. In order to get the most important points across or to fit into five hundred words or five minutes or a reader's attention span. Like I had to do that for this story. I have more than two hours worth of tape of me talking to John. Swan Wayne Pines about the DA and read number two. But all of that background just couldn't fit into this episode stuff did get left out so as a consumer. Here's the question. How do we know when we should be seriously worried? That say read Amenemhat or if yours later it was SACCHARIN. When should we be worried that those things might be giving us cancer? And when should we just trust the scientists and journalists to do their jobs? I'm at schools. Need to teach this better. The media needs to do a better job of education. The government needs to do a better job of outreach but I can tell you having tried all that. It's hard because people have their own educational backgrounds. They have their own perspective. They have their own emotional reactions to the food that they're eating the drugs that they're taking and so it's hard to persuade people. Did we ever figure out for sure whether or not red dye number two actually does cause cancer knelt? As of this moment no one has successfully demonstrated that it is safe by the FDA standards so we still can't say that it causes cancer and we also can't say that it does not cause cancer. But I feel like we've mostly recovered from the red scare. I mean the Red Emma's back. People aren't giving Colored Foods. A WIDE BERTH. In the grocery store and at least in my family the red food coloring bottle is back in the game. Okay but I've been hearing this other thing about Red Dye actually. I don't know if you knew this that it's actually made from mushed up bug parts drew. It's true we have a little gift for you. I'll nice of you have to look closely at my goodness. Charlie got his new best friend. Jason a bag of custom. Red Eminem's an on the EMINEM's Charlie didn't already eat. It says in tiny white letters brought to you by brought to you by the Red Eminence Look at this. That's fantastic. That's Brandy Ladies and gentlemen that's branding. Wow that's Jason Lee Big Candy Collector and historian you can read more about his work at collecting Candy Dot Com. He's speaking of our favorite foods from the eighties. Do you remember the California raisins commercials? You know the one with the dancing claymation raisins we need your help court of Voice memo telling about your memories of that ad and what it meant to you and then send it to us at bt Y BE AT INSIDER DOT com or you can leave a voicemail at six four six seven six eight four seven seven seven go ahead and hit the fifteen seconds go back and get all that Info Gin. And while you're at it let us know what you think about the show on twitter at bt Y pot and on facebook just search brought to you by podcast also. I know podcast hosts say this all the time but it really does make a difference. If you leave us a rating and review on Apple podcasts stitcher or wherever you listen. We appreciate the feedback and it helps us keep making the show. This episode was reported and produced by Sarah. Wyman Julia pressing need our editors were Michaela bly and Caroline do bowl. Sound Design by Bill Moss. Casey Holford and John delory composed theme. Music is from Audio Network and Sarah. Wyman is our show runner special thanks to the FDA history office and Lindsey Meyer for their help with the story the headline you heard skills a bit like an Oscar. Speech read by Clare. Ben Deras Margaret. Bhawani Livy Brandt Clayton dire rich. Baloney Graham Flanagan Neg techn- men Fuller D- Juliana Caplan Dave Moshe Shirt Christine. Un Lauren Thomson and our very own. Julia. Press brought to you by his a production of insider audio.
Monolith Update #1
"My friends and i never made a podcast. Before and to be honest we had no idea how to get started. That's when we decided to check out anchor. If you haven't heard about anchor it's the easiest way to make a podcast. Lemay explain a couple of things. First of all. It's free second of all anchor will distribute your podcast for you. So it can be hard on spotify apple podcast and many more finally. It's everything you need to make a podcast all in one place. Download the free anchor up or go to anchor dot. Fm to get started. All things unexplained hosted by dr mouths. Let's face it. We were always read roll without in any way. Cj derringer perfect right and smitty needs. I've never planned out harley my whole love free featuring cajun man. I'm old nobody. Somebody looking for somebody. Touch melts here to give you some monolith updates since our mindless show monolithic continued to pop up all over the world almost faster than you can keep track of them. Let's start in lift bridge alberta. This comes from the lift bridge news. Now dot com sunday december thirteenth mysterious monolith popped up and it was known monday morning. No one knows exactly how it got there when it was installed how it disappeared. I love about this story is it was noticed by pedestrians and motorists on the north side of whoop up drive. Yes whoop up drive. East of the oldman river and just downhill from the galt consortium. I have to wonder if being just in a row museum quits. They it's tail breaking news more monoliths in canada. This one comes from kamloops. British columbia mysterious monolith has popped up in the middle of nowhere sitting atop a bluff overlooking kamloops photographer. Matt less arado discovered a large metal monolith on the bluffs near bachelor heights while hiking. These posted a video of it. By the way this comes from info dot c. a. in the video lazarenko said he sent a truck part of the location night for the past week. He says laws. I don't give deigned up scotty. We're good and other video of what appears to be same. Monolith was posted by youtube user. It a comedian who claims to have discovered it. On december fourth breaking news december fourteenth from hungary this comes to us courtesy of unilab. I love this story. Because it features had the pain herald. Apparently had to paint herald went viral at some point due to his interesting smile and a picture. Hide the pain. Herald is now posted. A photo of himself with this mysterious monolith in hungary this monolith quite interestingly comes with the label claims. It's a gift of the inter galactic federation according to unilab for those of us not familiar with hide the pain herald. Israel name is andres arado. He became a male sensation after a stock photograph of him with an angst. Filled smile went viral online breaking news. Another mysterious model is found this time in iran. This comes to us from the i. L p news dot com actually bears the letters n and s inscribed on the middle object. Potentially show in the directions for north and south the middle mile if this planet firmly and with no clear sign of where it from or wide stair has been found just in a small village northeast of iran's capital of taran breaking news from australia a monolith with cryptic coordinates appears and vanishes in adelaide. Australia just days after discovery. Let's listen to the actual news broadcast that being cold. The monoliths mysterious metallic structures popping up all over the globe and now one spain spotted in adelaide south appearing seemingly out of nowhere in panic leaving locals. Baffled close encounter of the absurd kind this morning. Middle mystery arrived in a paddock. He no longer next to try and live in around the maintenance say got a you know what a main protest on the map the closer you look the more perplexing the puzzle a series of coordinates etched on the side coordinates avalon. Sundays one in new york days. There's a handful of them that employees and indeed the monolith something popping up all over the world the first in utah before others appeared around europe. Put a camera under the no longer statute and you'll see a lights display. But perhaps the most puzzling in grinding is this. Numerical code translated in one form of finer. It says help us. A skype could have popped out the could obey manmade. Wait eireann now. Some just happy take cities with others theorize as to what it could only one hundred ten percents. I'd say that it's almost one hundred percent man. Might what i don't understand how they've talked the whole will the truck down to bring all the stuff to build someone having fun and it's making people talk whether it's a viral marketing campaign or something else reminds to be saying bras hagen. Nine news. this one is particularly interesting to me. Because of the coordinates engraved only in the binary code the coordinates. Oddly enough point to trump tower in new york the uninhabited island of an gotha in the northern written ariana islands and this fakes and egypt's alkiza desert in the binary code apparently was translated to say help us escape theory interesting now like i said just went on the air even more on was still popping up. Well you can track the on on your own nail. All you have to do is go to use monolith tracker dot com monolith trekker dot com here. They've actually classified the. We've got four classifications. The s class is significant monoliths. That are well-made with zero appearance. The p class is possibly significant mindless well-made but with little information or some evidence that suggest knock off or generally listened mystery than s class monolith. You've got q. Class for questionable and k class for clearly knockoff monoliths with little surrounding them. There's a time line. There's a google doc. Really great place to go and keep track of the model is so everybody. Let's keep having fun with the monoliths blend theory that i've come up with just recently. I think that it's kind of like bigfoot get to be so many models sightings nail it's hard to discern from the fakes the knockoffs and the real legit mindless that could something deeper just like bigfoot sasquatch gigantic. We've got a lot of legitimate sightings out there but of course a lot of fakes. A lot knockoffs hetman. It's time so it's really hard to keep them separated. There's so much. So jumbled up want to check out more my books just go to squat in dot com but these models get to be in the same category there so many of them popping up all over. It's a lot of fun but which ones how deep remaining which ones are clearly knockoffs. Only time will tell by. Thanks for tune in to our monolith. Update have a great win. This has been all things unexplained.
Episode 38: #4 - Shadow People
"Hello and welcome to book in the Shetlands podcast. Let me be your guide guide as we take a book into the shadowy rooms of the unexplained the paranormal. A things that go bump in the night and won't your dreams. Hello I'm Marion and I would like to welcome you to L. Fist. If a podcast. Thank you so much for joining US tonight today. What if a time it is we? If you're living in this beautiful wood vows so sit thank relax and let me be you got as we look into the shadowlands together and discover what awaits us. The ticha this you sit in Lange pads watching TV or join a cup of coffee at the kitchen table when suddenly you see this dark shadowy form out of the corner of your eye but as soon as you tune you hit hit to look at it it quickly emphatically darts away leaving. You wondering didn't really see that or was it just my eyes playing tricks or did I just imagine it so you shake the image in sold out of your mind and brush it off as being mere imagination with this is this nickname unfeeling in the pedophile stomach. That what a feeling. What if I actually saw something? This happens only once all the heads continue sporadically for days weeks weeks months or even years one day without warning you suddenly confronted by a dark figure this show you had been seen in your perfume vision now standing standing directly in front of you unmistakably undeniably in your face doc than the Dacas not like them black you a scene. Ah Shep is is this an what do they look like. Many people report shadow. People have been like a shadow that you see on a wall. But it's directly in front of you in your face. Blacker Than Blake blacker than Dhaka's not but sometimes the Shit Apu's pieces silhouette of a person must often Alan shape but not always and usually they like any other sort of characteristics touristic agenda however there are many different descriptions of Shit I people for example they were should. I mean the wearing heads alone with a jacket or trench coats sometimes of the briefcases. Well the hooded sugar. People Quote Shit I people sometimes they can even appear in the form of animals. This is adopted experience with shadow critters as he calls them how. I have run into should've critters from time to time in the past most most recently edit convention a couple of weeks ago the furtherest bag I have is probably two thousand or two thousand one with two exceptions which I have zipper hypothesis. For must've time us will shed equitas the beast way. I can describe them. They was small probably hamster sized and moved rapidly. They just like rodents. Although I do not recall seeing any details aside from projection which reminded me of short tail. Usually they were spotted running running across open floor or up moos which is very disconcerting they would usually disappear after five or six seconds in full view. One moment they with the and and the Niks they were not as if someone had switched them off my apologies mixing metaphors the fizz hypothesis. That came to mind. was that a glitch in my visual CORTEX was responsible others in the area corroborating. I saw nixed that idea. Although the possibility of a group reinforcement talk mistake and interpretation is a very real one at this time I have no explanation for the phenomena over so many people are reporting sightings some even say it should be people are able to shape shift generally should I people have no discernible facial through features although sometimes they say with very vivid read. Yellow Ukraine glowing is. This is the Reverend Mary Yankees his experience with a shadow person. I work as a psychic medium and the unseen doesn't scare me given that I've been doing clearings is of people spaces in land professionally for over twenty five years before that. I have had paranormal experiences. Since I was a baby. Not much scares me anymore. One story I have is more funny than scary although others might not think. So here's the backstory. Pretty much every home in in which I've ever lived has been haunted probably because of my sensitivity in one place. My bedroom was in the finished basement so that my numerous children could have the bedrooms on the main floor. Our pet cat. Aptly named spooky kept spraying all over the basement. And when I contacted a pet psychic she told me that there was an entity that lived in the laundry room in the unfinished part that kept taunting him as an Alpha male he was trying to set boundaries with it. I didn't sleep much downstairs since I was going to college. Full time. Caring for four kids and working I would fall asleep in the recliner in the living room over my homework. Work one other thing that you need to know about me is that I have an issue with being woken up while I am sleeping. Wake me even thirty seconds before my my alarm goes off and I will throat punch you one night. I actually made it to bed in the basement I set my alarm for my usual six. AM and fell asleep immediately at four thirteen am which by the way seems to be a running theme. When the unseen wants to mess with me I woke up feeling a chill on my neck and rolled-over to find myself face to face with a three foot tall shadow person? He was like black soot wispy around the edges but deep black in the centre with glowing red eyes despite the semi darkness in the room. I could see him clearly because because he blotted out everything behind him. By this time I had been woken up by hundreds of entities and spirits over the years so all I felt was was annoyance that he had disturbed my sleep. We looked at each other for a moment and then I said with real irritation what his head snapped back in what I took to be surprised. And then he disappeared with a pop. It seems that I had disconcerted him a bit. I was never bothered by him again. Although my cat still thoroughly destroying the carpet in the basement hey I was busy single mom. I did not have time linked to deal with their spat. There's a saying that goes plumbers. Have leaky faucets and carpenters. Have squeaky doors. It would make sense that a psychic like medium would have an entity should have people come in all sorts of forms as well. You can see absolutely solid. Should I people some have described at these as if they were looking into a black hole they can appeal was being formed with it. Just said indistinct or they can appear really smoky like a faulk in front of fear is some shit people unseen passionately like from the waist up or you can see the league is run away from you. Should it be nine. Two DOT got into corners to walk through walls some also creep up them end sometimes across the ceiling as well these ones could creep is intended to be the taught that really put people people on each staple into or out of closets hide behind television sits bushes and buildings and sometimes they simply fade into the darkness of the night. Right there is not really one single common denominator that my colleagues or unify the many different types of Shit up people that come into automation of being the only really common theme is that they are dark intensely. Dark black a the black in from Wisconsin. USA She's his experience with Shit. I people so yeah. Shadow person. Experience happened and when I was fifteen twenty four now so about nine years ago and I was sitting in a chair at my computer desk behind me is doorway with no door Just an archway leading into the other room it's at an angle and in that room is a sliding glass door and then one day when I was just sitting there on the computer doing my thing I I heard the door open. I heard the sliding glass door open and I turned around to see what it was and it was just a pitch black arm like reality had been cut out an arm was put Loyd in its place and I saw moving to shut the door. It drew away from the door and that was that I took a moment to just collect my thoughts. You know what had just happened. I'd seen a color. I'd not seen before a black of this black Then soon as thought hit me that it could be an intruder in my house I just sprang up into action got going and that was there was nothing there. There was absolutely nothing there. You're in even my little dachshunds. My little dogs who bark at everything were just stay calm in front of the door like nothing had happened. The experience was just completely and totally surreal. A creep me out at the time. I didn't really know know what to think of it. I didn't feel unsafe. Afterwards per se just really made me question. What reality was I came across the definition of website rank dot com the other day when I was researching for this podcast shadow? People are quote. Doc An organic phantom like bipedal figures that look just like dark shadow of a figure but don't seem to have quite full human form of facial reportedly delineation they feel very masculine and oppressive. And something that is beyond human and out of scope of understanding in quote some should it being the ones that I personally saw. When I experienced them as young teenager appeared fled absolutely fled? Back in the late seventies is living in Hamilton New Zealand and had befriended a single mom and her two daughters. They were absolutely awesome. People and the mother was really hard. If we can woman. During the theory bish she could an excellently horrendous situation. They would tell me about paranormal things that are happening in the house. They said they could see shedders running around the polls the house which terrified them. That was so scared of what was happening that all three of them would sleep in the same room at night. They told me that they would save these. Two dimensional shadow creatures. That seemed to run around the boys in the rooms particularly in the lounge. Listen to what they told me but you know at this stage in my life I was really young and immature and I certainly had no experience in this area to be able to offer them any suggestions on what to do for the home they they may not even have listened to me anyway as was just a kid one night early in the evening when I was visiting with us sue them for myself. It was actually a really interesting experience. We're watching TV and just chatting about nothing in particular. It was earlier as even about probably five thirty or six PM Liam so it was already dark outside when out of the corner of my eye on my left hand side a so a small about three foot shadow in the form of a prison but flat two dimensional looking and very very black. It's really hard to describe exactly how this being locked the the closest I can come to describe in these things that they were like paper. Cut help does you cut a figure out of a piece of paper N G use it as a base to fold paper the clothes on kids to play within these days it looked like that flat. Two dimensional. Let's seemed it really just looked like a shadow of a small person and that had been silhouetted onto the boo. So a so this being out of the coin of Ma I and once it was a way that I saw it and this was really interesting because because I recognized right then that this whatever it was had an intelligence about it and then a windows certainly enough to be a with it. I had spotted it and once it was a weird that I saw it. It begin racing around the ball just absolutely at a fantastic speed. I can't explain Blaine speed. It's up to it up but as it raced around the wall it was like it was sectioned to the pool and followed every group of each set encountered the bulls the door James Doors the skirting board on the bottom of the booze. It was just really fast and had to describe it moves so quickly quickly and as soon as I saw it move it was immediately followed by at least two others. They raised all around the room about three or four times. They went around around and around and around and around and then they just disappeared. The goals were absolutely hysterically crying. The mom was Ashen faced and I honestly was just stunned. It is one thing to hear about it and another entirely to experience it end with witnesses. The feeling that came of these beings was definitely one of fee juicing all more actually feeding off the field that they had created that they had in just in the family I was personally was just fascinated but what I was saying. I was stunned. I didn't feel any fear. I just felt shock. Even though are seeing the shadow people clearly this was a regular occurrence for the family or perhaps because of that the family was absolutely absolutely traumatized attentive stated they also had other paranormal things happening in the high. Unfortunately the family was unable to afford to move from the home for some time and win the eventually could very well no longer any issues like that. Which tells me now? In retrospect that the entities actually attached to the home and not to the family. It is hard for me to explain. Exactly how flat and two-dimensional these entities looked. But the we'd sing to me. was that the limbs. I moved normally as humans word so that was my experience. The shadow people into the state. I've never if I had another Stories of shadowy beans have been found around for centuries in Spain over most coaches and often they are a focal favorite them mentioned in the Koran S. pitch-black sapient beans. Then I'm entirely spiritual officle mention of them also dates back to eerily six hundred BC ancient Egyptians believed in shadow people in court in the Colbert. They also believed shadow. People came and went on behalf of the spirit world and sometimes they had good intent. Sometimes malevolent the agent Romans believe that these people came from the underworld Greeks whichever people literal sheriff of themselves which they had given to the God Zeus as a gift. And all these coaches are had a common belief that they showed people were both part of the ruled food and the paranormal one in two thousand and won the undisputed King of late night paranoid talk shows the late great at bell on his show. Coast to coast. Am I brought the subject up one night when he mentioned that he had received some emails from people who'd been experiencing these entities diesel beings and he asked his listeners had seen similar and if so could they call an all perhaps fake stories of what is being looked like. Well you know the old saying be careful what you wish for was absolutely inundated with fine coors faxes and letters in response response in April that year he brought on a gift a native American elder by the name of fun to strikes to discuss the subject from a native American speak of during the show he asked people to send enjoins of their experiences. The response again was overwhelming and crashed his website jumping on outspent wag in October that year. Also Highly Hanis published a book who fist on the subject to shed a people. She made a feeble attempt in in my mind to claim that she and her researching the book had discovered this phenomenon and that she had come up with a tomb shadow people this despite the fact that art hid used on his shirt in the beginning of the year so that is hotly disputed by some Interviewed who on his show in two thousand and two and she became a regular guest after that. What cannot be disputed however is that she did coined the term Hetman for the shadow people who are seen in heads the Tomb Hetman has sort of stuck around since then but she goes a little food states that shadow people I connected with aliens and Hero News sprayed sprayed evil and absolutely all of them have negative intentions? So that is how should I mean came into our mainstream attention and became part of the subjects of many TV shows. Movies books and radio shows they have been integrated into most vow media since then also thanks to APO. Oh this is fix hitmen experience. I think also one of these when I was a little kid account. Remember much about it. I'm forty three now. I was embiid end. I think asleep dreaming fist but I remember a man was standing in front of me with a black coat and a hit with a bremmer rendered. And don't think he hit any face. Everything was just black but whatever it was terrified me. I woke up crying and win. I looked on the corner of my room. Even though it was doc I could see something Blake in the corner. I remember I yelled for my dad. And he came into rely on N.. Nothing was there. I never saw it again. Also anything offer until I hit some ANA radio show named coast to coast describe obscene. A man with a head on something about him was extremely scary even though I never forgot that dream who whatever it was from what I cur mean. But he wasn't on his told us. Man I was maybe about Success old the Many theories about show people and they come from. Let's go over them briefly. So one theory is that they are goes was spirits. birt's which are really the same thing just different names that they are stuck your new for some reason and Amelie a shadow of the foam self some few aliens particularly the Hetman and that the head is used to cover the shape of the head with a resume ellen. Golly appears to also his thing an alien connection Shen quote I discovered that many should have people experiences also. Et experiences especially abductees end quote. Golly told road psychology today in an interview. The GYM is said to be connected to the shadow people but These older same thing and just people experiencing experiencing them in different ways or are they separate entities. Another theory is that shadow. People are normal humans who have Ester traveled or projected in this league which everybody does but not everybody recall was it. We'll discuss extra travel and Aleida podcast. Some some say that shadow people are into mental beans from a parallel or another dimension. alwa- some pain who is simply traveling between dimensions. Gus Reform a former vintage dimensional beam but from a different realm. This is the theory that I'm not into favor. Some people see sheriff. People as Guardians have been sent to petite it all to warn us of impending danger or something bad about to happen then others see them from a more traditional perspective and budge dishes. I mean religious perspective and see them as Doc and evil beings who take the full of shadows and light to give the labels like demons this the suspect of could come from two areas one through religious indoctrination of whatever persuasion or this could possibly come from the feeling of feed read and panic some feel when encountering these beings of all the shadow beans the Hetman is seen in this letter category as being particularly we dock and evil some of the shadow people especially the Hetman has been described as giving off a feeling of relive lands and create an Edsel via and most who sees them. Although actually many people can feel fish simply because of the shop surprise and possibly confusion appears infused fused when viewing any paranormal or unexplained experience and not merely from the shadow pissing themselves the most common characteristics of shadow people sought in our feelings feelings of impending doom depression or intense fear. That seemed to radiate from the bean itself although the always some examples that contradict the rue. Do some say they in fact have had positive experiences with this is calm story when one he is about shadow people they simply jump to the conclusion from what I've heard that they are evil. They say not to welcome them but Levino I say they deserve a chance and they all ocean because evil because not all. I'm seventeen and have one in my living room. He eliminates my depression. or sadness of been told it could would be someone might did who sinned or has a message for me. I've been called crazy and veges but I don't need people to believe what I see and feel from. I shudder man I feel his energy and everything and nothing bad has happened to me. Merrick's experience whenever I I am bedridden from terrible. Migraines my son says there is a showman standing at the foot of my bed or by the window we have lived in many countries and he always comes uh-huh when my migraines are extremely bed or I am sick when my son was little the shadow man would make faces at him to make him love and would also tell come to become when he was being naughty now he just stands God of never seen him but my son who is now a teenager does he doesn't play with how many more but he does not have as if to say it will all be our K- we have tried things like asking him to leave but he just smiles shakes his head and waits nights until I'm feeling bitter before disappearing is relative worn angel. He certainly is looking out for missing. Theory kind uh-huh aw scary since I heard the pastors somewhere Cool to rule by SPOTHERO swaddled. Vive look no longer. Scare- scared Oughta go I really like that song. I use scheduled by Sasha end featuring Admiral Bob licensed under creative Commons two thousand nineteen for more for information. Be Sure and check out my podcast site walking the SHADOWLANDS DOT com. This is Hannah. Who's going to shoot who experience of shadow shadow woman with us so yells about even and I remember I was at school? I was in the classroom in out of the corner of my i. I noticed a black shadowy feige Just probably a couple maters away just behind some discs in a turn to look in. It was nothing there but when I turn Beck. It's there again the showy Vega and I feel you're really angry prisons in I can see her just did just watching me everywhere I went. She was just in my peripheral. Just walked king. So did you feel a lot of malevolence in hatred towards coming from her. Ex mortis anger that I feel from him And win she is around my mood Become what an angry pissed in my south being so young. That must have been pretty scary for you. Yeah was this shit up his and when you saw her in the shape of a female or did did you just get the feeling of female energy. Not I could make out That she was wearing a dress which is what gave it away. But I'm saying why she's appeared behind me numero but she doesn't have a face. It's just like a black mets. When you see who is she both find? Or who ige's like wispy end indistinct. It's it's a bit of Box Fox freely. I mean you know it's a toll West Bay and blurry but at the same time it's a clear like I don't know it's really hard to describe them. Isn't it yeah. I had the same problem myself. So how often would you see. Who Do you think uh-huh say so often anymore? Maybe once every couple of months but from Maybe the ages of eleven to fifteen sixteen. It was basically constant. She was just a wasted. DIFFUSED FIT FIT pep. She was the during those times. Because it was a very angsty period for you like you were going through puberty. You'll find yourself. Your emotions are really high that stage agency. That had something to do with it. Yeah I definitely am a presence. Didn't help the teenage angst. I'm I'm different. I made it worse but yet that must've hit something today off the Times that you've seen. Whose sons have these been times of upheaval in in your life yes? She does team to appear win when I'm struggling with something in my life which is frustrating. Because oh she does is make things worse. The is a school of thought that these beings feet of the emotion stage in right in the viewer. Yeah that sounds about right do feel fit in the time she see her that she's we saw. There are times when she you know she would to do things to get my attention. I think but you know I'm I remember one day our was always at home. It not OPTUS go and I could say her out of the corner of my in the corner of my room and I wasn't paying any attention to her in a whispered to myself that I was you know I just WanNa to go away in. That moment. Might be dream. Door slammed in the Amirah fellow win an open the door and picked up my merit and I said to my mom. Did you just slammed the door. And she was like hit. The door didn't slam. I vividly sore it in head it and had to pick up my MIRA so this really interesting you know some researches inches have talked about and Oz factor ran paranormal encounters. What I mean by Ozzfest? Two is like you sir feel nothing else exists and you are only in the moment. Everything seems really still and surreal and things that are happening to. You aren't necessarily hooter experienced by others as conflict you're in in this cocoon uh-huh bubble and they could be storm raging around you but you wouldn't see or feel or hear it. It's really an interesting phenomena. Do you have any experiences possess ship. Yusen that standout moving office after thinking about that one Not Particularly. I mean the time you know. The time Dole slammed in the time I saw her behind me in the MIRA but as differently we stand out experiences that other than that. She's just She's just yeah I just have to At now I mean she's been around for so long that when she appears I kind of I know what's going to happen to my mode and right Kinda handle it beata. Yeah so is that something you've learned over Time D. think except I don't think I don't know how I would even get rid of. She's just she's never physically Hammy saw I can cook with it. Have you ever told you to leave. Yeah I have seen it before that you know. I want her to go away in awesome. You know I don't appreciate presents in my life but it it just it just makes things really something. It always just happens after a tool. Just a Mahmoud. It will get worse. I'll get quite angry and irritable and it seems to me like you. Picking up her moods been influenced by Hill. Veasley yet. When you talk about things getting what would happen like would things happen? Ran The hassle just in your life. Personally Yeah Out Start having really really awful not Just the horrific things I couldn't I couldn't figure it out put down and He just in my personal life. It felt like everything was just you know on a downhill slope luxury state one. That must've made things quite difficult for you. I imagine yeah has she if a spike in two seat anything to you I used to. When she was around more often I would hear voices? Like whispers is When she was around occasionally you know as paypal? It was like there was a voice coming from another room. I never really acknowledged it could have been if you've been the same no not. I've never really experienced anything You know paranormal long analyzed caused after. I wonder if it made it harder for you. When you were still growing up? Imagine it did. Yeah in retrospect DC with him have been any reason for she targeted you at that age yet that stage of my life. I was quite wake. I didn't have many friends. I was very Right this is a school of thought that show people target vulnerable. People who are experiencing difficult periods in the streets Thomson Sidley. My experience showed that because of the images you put out when you're going through an emotional time you energy's a quote highly charged and the thought is that these beings feet of the energies. When was the last time you so you shed a woman? It was a bad not seen a couple of months now about two months ago in was going through a difficult time because ought just moved to the other end of the country in ause really struggling in you know banks. I fought for my family and I remember one not Saying her just standing at the end of my bid As I was trying to get to slight when you saw her Helen Helen did she stay for in that visit in. Did you see who full-on or just ahead of the thought of your is. It was just out of the corner of my eye. She was the FA may maybe half an hour and then I think I ended up drifting off to slight Accustomed you hit become his. He didn't even have to bother to stay awake anymore. So it could for you. Well Hannah of to thank you so much sharing your story with us. I really appreciate that. It's the right voted commode isil purpose. Honestly how long is a piece of string to try and describe human medicine purposes to being that obviously not human really. Here's a pointless exercise simply because they are not human and therefore do not think feel or act in the same in of we might some people like Heidi Eddie Hollas in one. TV show medium by the name of amy categorically state did they only here with evil intent purpose and to bring Atta negativity. I feel as though we need to be very careful to not ascribe human artist or actions to these beings theorize some other schools food about these beans and these come from scientific in physiological perspective rather authentic spiritual one one is that this phenomenon is related to drug abuse as in this quote from the Phoenix. New Times we've sought with discussing to twenty road tweaking quote also window blinds closed. Sunday explains explains set so the shadow people can't see inside the shadow people. You should go away at night. Shawna Ed's but why take chances in quite so. This implication as the shadow people visual hallucinations from drug abuse. But not everyone who sees these beans are drug abusers or have mental health issues so perhaps for a very small percentage of experiences this might be a felon reason but it certainly does not explain the vast majority of them all in an article in the new science. Make a scene in two thousand and six that were discussing. The scientific study by the neurologist of plank of the mind brain institute enlist in Switzerland where he and his colleagues were attempting to identify the source of epileptic seizures in a twenty three year. Old Woman and I quote they applied Ahmad current three surgically implanted electrodes to furious regions of your brain. Not much happened until the research is stimulated. The woman's lift temporary approach to junction T. PJ located roughly above Philadelphia. Suddenly she reported feeling the presence of mystery person behind to a motionless motionless in speechless shadow. That imitated her body posture and actions. He lay beneath When she laid down set behind her when she sat down and attempted to take a test card from her when she tried to participate in a language exercise in quote so they booed and pet still who are researching if activating the Syria of the brain can explain some of these sightings? Perhaps it can explain a single person seen something but how how do you explain it. When like in my case four of us so the same thing another explanation that is often put forward for sightings? Is that people are having sleep. PARENTHESIS episodes sleep. Paralysis is a feeling of being conscious but unable to move it occurs when a person passes between stages of Wakefulness UNISOM. Sleep during these transitions. You may be unable to move or speak for few seasons up to a few minutes. Some people may also feel pressure or seen so choking how we ever see is a real physiological. SP to sleep paralysis. Sleep paralysis does not in the list. Explain the majority of experiences that people have when wide awake and an aside the state. This is Maria Story. I don't know if it was a shadow prisoner. The ghost that haunted the house. We will love him but it was differently black and I could see it and felt evil. I would see it in my room almost every single night when I was about fourteen I was curious. 'cause I could see it in so I tried to ask questions and then that just pissed off in the next couple of days. It was just super aggressive so I did. What came naturally and got aggressive bag but at the same time I was really scared and fearful I started seeing like Mike Blake? Portal's things around the house during the day. It quickly disappeared so I told dead about what was happening and he pleased the health and my room and taught me a cut the Kea that his mom told him for protection. Sometimes it was sit on my bed or on. My leaks are mean but when I tried to ask what's your name it it pushed me down and I've run out of the room crying in slipped with mum in the beginning. Nobody believed me so I stopped telling him what was what's going on. I stopped doing the Kea. 'cause I felt like it wasn't doing much at all for me and after a few months I ended up being comfortable with all of a sudden the last time I seen it my state of mind was completely different. I approached it like I knew what I was doing. I felt relaxed into path for nothing could touch me. I did the cover KIA SIPA calm. And then like a force feud don came out of nowhere it was like crystal crystal-clear with shining cameras and it was growing from where I was and didn't stop and pushed the shed up out of the health and it never came back In listen episode of walking the shadow lands we have talked about shadow. People what they look like theories about with come from and what they People have she'd the the experiences with us. When I've researched the step aside of the podcast I was frankly surprised at how many people have experienced these beans or entities? Not In the lies. They just so many experiences. I could have and ahead Smae if you will all interested enough to an episode just on his experiences. Let me know what you think you can email me at Shetlands at Yahoo Dot Com. And if you like the show in please consider supporting putting me on patriots dot com become a subscriber and for few dollars a month. You can support this show and help cover hosting bandwidth end of expenses expenses like royalty fees for any music. I may use some future episodes as a subscriber. You'll get access to beg besides the shower and the extras also. You will always get my absolute appreciation and love patron dot com chick Lincoln on our website. WWW w. w. dot walking the shadowlands dot com. Thank you very much for listening tonight today wherever you are in this this beautiful world of ASS. If you haven't already then please describe on chains and leave us a positive rating interview review. Spread the word around about this podcast. Invite your friends family and weeknights to subscribe and listen to and we will see you this time my next week. Thanks for listening.
"Uh? And welcome to milk in the shadowlands podcast. It may be your good as we take -able into the shit. We rooms of the unexplained the paranormal of things that go bump in the night and won't your dreams. Your hosts. I'm Marianne, and I would like to welcome you to fist if a podcast. Thank you so much for joining us tonight today, what if time it is if you're living in this beautiful wood vows so sit back relax, and let me be you got as we will the shadowlands to give. And discover what awaits us the. Pitchy. You sit in Lange perhaps watching TV or join a Cup of coffee at the kitchen table. When suddenly you see the stock shadowy form out of the corner of your eye. But as soon as you you hit to look at it quickly emphatically doubts away leaving you wondering really see that. Oh, was it. Just my eyes playing tricks. Oh, did I just imagine it? So you shake the image in thought out of your mind and brush it off as being mitt imagination with this this nickname feeling in the pedophile stomach that what a feeling what if actually so something this happened sunny once all beheads continue sporadically days, weeks months or even years one day without warning you a southern they confronted by doc figure this Shehdeh you had been seen in your perfume vision. Now standing directly in front of you unmistakably undeniably in your face, doc than the doc. Not black them black. You a scene as Schepers? Shit a piss. They look like many people report showed people as been like shedder that you see on a bull, but it's directly in front of your interface blacker than black blacker than doc is not sometimes this shit up his new pieces silhouette of a person must often Maryland shape, but not always. And usually they like any other sort of characteristics agenda. Hell if there are many different descriptions of shit. I people for example, they were should a mean that a sane wearing heads alone with jacket. Oh, trench coats, sometimes of the briefcases. Well, they hooded shoulda people Croat's shit. I people sometimes they can even appear in the form of animals. This is adopted experience with shadow critters as he calls them. I have run into should a critics from time to time in the past. Most recently edit convention a couple of weeks ago, the furtherest big I have is probably two thousand two thousand one with tweaks Asians, which I have sit hypothesis fool must've time us who shed a critics the best way. I can describe them that was small probably hints to sized and moved rapidly. Just like rodents was I do not recall saying any details sawed from a prediction, which reminded me of short tile usually was spotted running across open floor up. Woo. Which is very disconcerting. They would usually disappear after five six seconds and full few one moment with the and the Niks they were not as of someone had switched them off my apologies for mixing metaphors, the fist hypothesis that came to mind was that a glitch in my visual cortex was responsible others in the area. Corroborating. I saw next set idea. Although the possibility of a group reinforcement of mistake in interpretation is a very real one. At this time. I have no explanation for the phenomena ov-. Why so many people are reporting sightings? Some even say, it should have people able to shape shift generally, should I people have. No discernible facial features or sometimes they Assane with very Fid read yellow oak, green glowing eyes. This is the refrained Mary Yankees experience with shit. I pose. I work as a psychic medium, and the unseen doesn't scare me given that I've been doing clearings of people spaces in land professionally for over twenty five years before that I have had paranormal experiences since I was a baby not much scares me anymore. One story. I have is more funny than scary. Although others might not think. So here's the backstory pretty much every home in which I've ever lived has been haunted. Probably because of my sensitivity in one place. My bedroom was in the finished basement. So that my numerous children could have the bedrooms on the main floor. Our pet cat aptly named spooky kept spraying all over the basement. And when I contacted a pet psychic. She told me that there was an entity that lived in the laundry room in the unfinished part that kept taunting him as an alpha male. He was trying to set boundaries with it. I didn't sleep much downstairs. I was going to college fulltime caring for four kids and working. I would fall asleep in the recliner in the living room over my homework. One other thing that you need to know about me is that I have an issue with being woken up while I am sleeping wake me, even thirty seconds before my alarm goes off, and I will throat punch you one night. I actually made it to bed in the basement. I set my alarm for my usual, six AM and fell asleep immediately at four thirteen AM, which by the way, seems to be a running seem when the unseen wants to mess with me. I woke up feeling a chill on my neck and rolled-over to find myself face to face with three foot tall shadow person. He was like black soot wispy around the edges, but deep black in the centre with glowing red eyes despite the semi darkness in the room. I could see him clearly because he blotted out everything behind him. By this time, I had been woken up by hundreds of entities and spirits over the years. So all I felt was annoying. Silence that he had disturbed my sleep. We looked at each other for a moment. And then I said with real irritation. What his head snapped back in what I took to be surprised, and then he disappeared with a pop it seems that I had disconcerted him bit. I was never bothered by him again. Although my cat still thoroughly destroying the carpet in the basement. Hey, I was a busy single mom. I did not have time to deal with their spat. There's a saying that goes plumbers have leaky faucets. Carpenters have squeaky doors. It would make sense that a psychic medium would have an entity should it people come in all sorts of foams. This will you can see -solutely solid shit. I people some have described these as if looking into a black hole they can appeal with being fooled with Ige's said a indistinct or they can appeal really smoky like a folk in front of your eyes. Some should I people on the same Pachauri like from the waist up. Oh, you can see the leagues as they run away from you should people nine to doubt into coolness to three wolves, son. Also creep up them end sometimes across the ceiling as well. These ones that could creep is intended to be the taught that really put people on each fable into at of cross it so heart behind television, states bushes, and boating is sometimes face simply fade into the darkness of the night. The is not really. Only one single common denominator that my colleague unify the many different types of Shiva people that come into outta mation of being the only really common theme is that they attack intensely doc like a the black. In from Wisconsin USA, she's his experience with shed. I people. So yeah, my shadow person experience happened when I was fifteen twenty four now so about nine years ago, and I was sitting in a chair at my computer desk behind me is in doorway with no door just an archway leading into the other room. It's at an angle and in that room is a sliding glass door. And then one day when I was just sitting there on the computer doing my thing. I. Heard the door open. I heard the sliding glass door open and. I turned around to see what it was. And it was just. A pitch black arm. Like reality had been cut out an arm was put in its place, and I saw moving to shut the door it drew away from the door and. Vows that I took a moment to just collect my thoughts. What had just happened? I'd seen a color. I'd not seen before a black of this black. Then soon as the thought hit me that it could be an intruder in my house. I just sprang up into action got going, and that was there was nothing there. There was absolutely nothing there in even my little dachshunds by little dogs who bark at everything were just calm in front of the door. Like nothing had happened. The experience was just completely totally surreal. A creep me out at the time. I didn't really know what to think of it. I didn't feel unsafe afterwards per se just really made me question. What reality was. I came across the stiffish on of website rank dot com. The other day when I was researching for this podcast shadow people are quote, duck an oaken phantom light by Pedo figures that look just like doc black shadow of a figure, but don't seem to have quite full human fool, pleasure, overly delineation. They feel very masculine and oppressive and something that is beyond human and out of Skype of understanding in quote. Some should have being slight ones that I personally saw when I experienced the museum teenage appeared fled at -solutely fled. Making the late seventy is always living in Hamilton New Zealand and had befriended a single mom and her two daughters. They absolutely awesome people. And the mother was really hard. We came woman doing the ferry bitch. She could an excellently horrendous situation. They would tell me about paranormal thinks that happening in the house. They they could see shadows running around the pool was the Hess which terrified them that was so scared of what was happening that all three of them would sleep in the same room at night. They told me that they would say these two dimensional shadow creatures that seemed to run around the bulls in the rooms, particularly in the lounge a listen to what they told me. But you know, it's tied my life. I was really young immature, and I certainly had no experience in this area to be able to offer them any suggestions on what to the home. They may not even have listened to me. Anyway, as I was just a kid one night early in the evening when I was visiting with him us. Oh them for myself. It. It was actually a really interesting experience. We've what ching TI Fe and just chatting about nothing in particular. It was early would as even about probably five thirty six PM. So it was already duck outside when out of the corner of my eye on my left hand side. A so a small all about three foot shadow in the form of a prison, but fled to dimensional locate end feary, very black. It's really hard to describe exactly how the Spain looked the closest I can come to describe in these beans is that they will like pipe cut out. Does will you a figure out of a piece of paper? Nj use it as a base to fold pipe close on kids still play within these days. It looked like that fled to dimensional. Let's seemed it really just looked like a shadow of a small person that had been silhouetted onto the bull. So I so the Spain out of the cone of I and once it was a way that I saw and this was really. Interesting because I've recognized right. The that this whatever it was head an intelligence about it. And then a witness certainly enough to be a with it. I had spotted and once it was weird that I saw it it begin racing around the ball just edge offend spayed. I can't explain the spate. It's up it just, but as it raised around the world, it was like it was suctioned to the boo and followed if group of h Syphis it encountered the bulls, the dual James the doors the scooting booth on the bottom of the booze. It was just really fast and hard to describe it moves so quickly. And as soon as move it was immediately followed by at least, two others. They raced all around the room about three or four times. I went around and around and around and around, and then they just disappeared. The Google's absolutely hysterically crying. The mom was ashen faced. And honestly was just end. It is one thing to hear about it and another entirely experience end with witnesses. The feeling that came. These beings was definitely one of feet, and juicing all more actually feeding of the fee if they had created that they hit and just in the family. I was personally was just fist night above what I was saying. I was stunned. I didn't feel any fear. I just felt shock even though is saying the shadow people clearly this was a regular occurrence for the family or perhaps because of the families was absolutely absolutely traumatized. Devastated. They also hit other paranormal things happening in the high. Unfortunately, the family was unable to food to move from the home for some time. And when they if intially could they were no longer any issues like that, which tells me now and rituals baked that the entities actually attached to the home and not to the family. It is hard for me to explain exactly how flat and two dimensional easy. Entities looked. But the we'd sing to me. Was that the limbs moved normally as a human's would. So that was my experience the shadow people into the state. I have never if head another. Stories shadowy beans have been found round for centuries and spin of a most coaches and often they are focal favorite them inches and the Koran as pitch Blake Sepe beans that entirely Spertzel office ical mention of them also died spe too early. Six hundred BC ancient Egyptians believed shit up people in court in the cupboard. They also believed shadow people came and went on behalf of the spurt world. Sometimes they had good intent sometimes malevolent, the Romans believe that these people came from the underworld Greeks, which shedded people lit tro shadows themselves, which had given to the gods Zeus as a gift, and all these coaches had a common belief that they showed people would both pot of the brew and the paranoia one in two thousand one the undisputed king of late night. Paranormal toke shows the light grey. At bell on his show custody. Coast AM phys subject up on not when he mentioned that he hit received some emails from people who'd been experiencing these entities. Oh beings. And he asked his listeners had seen similar, and if so could they colon Oprah hips fake stories of what these beans looked like. Well, you know, the old saying be careful what you wish for was Ed -solutely inundated with phone calls faxes and leaders in response in April that year, he brought on a guest tonight of American out above the name of funds strikes to discuss the subject from a native American speak tough during the show he asked people sit enjoins of their experiences. The response again was I've Wellman and crashed has played side. Jumping on out spent wagon type of that year. Also Hoti Honus published a book, his fist on the subject of shed people. She made a feeble attempt in my mind to claim that she in who research in the book hid discovered this phenomena, and that she had come up with the tomb shed people the spot defect that had used on his shirt in the beginning of the year. So said is hotly disputed by some interviewed who on his show into has to and she became a regular gay stuff that what cannot be disputed. However is that she did coined the tomb Hetman for the shadow people who are sane in hits the tomb Hetman has sort of stuck around since seen. But she goes a little insights that shed of people. I connected with alliens and here owners spread evil and all of them have only negative intentions. So that is how should I mean came into our mainstream attention? And became part of the subjects of many TV shows movies books and radio shows they have been integrated into most van media since seen. Also, thanks to Abell. This is fitness hitmen experience. I think I wanna face when I was a little kid account remained much about it. I'm forty three. Now. I was in bid end, I think asleep. Dreaming it fist? But other member. A man was standing in front of me with a black coat and hit with the Burma around into don't think he hit any face everything was just black. But whatever it was terrified me I woke up crying and win looked in the corner of my room, even though it was duck. I could see something like in the Kuna. I remember a yelled for my dad and he came into delight tone. N nothing was the I never saw it. Again. Also anything offer until hit some on radio show nine coast to coast described seeing a man with a head on something about him. Was extremely scary. Even though I never forgot that dream will whatever it was from what I cur mean. But he wasn't very tolls. Undies told us man, I was. Maybe about six years old. Many theories about shadow people and they come from. Let's go over them briefly. So one theory is that they goes was spurts which really designed thing just a front nines that they stuck your own news for some reason and Amelie shadow of the foam self some fields. I particularly the headman and that the head is used to cover the shape of the head of rice where Ellen golly appears to also his sane any connection. Quote. I discovered that many shoulda people experiences also ET experiences, especially of duck days in quote. Golly towed psychology today in an interview the gym a said to be connected to the shadow people. But otherwise oldest thing and just people experiencing them in different ways. Of a separate entities. Another theory is that shit up people Anoma humans who have Estelle traveled projected in this league. Which if everybody does but not everybody recalls that we'll discuss Estelle travel, and a podcast, some safe, it shed, a people into dimensional beans from a parallel or another to meet shin. Ola? Some being who simply traveling between dimensions guys are foam of entity Mitchell being but from a different realm. This is the theory that I'm motiva- for some people see shadow people got have been sent to petite all tabun us of impending danger or something bad about to help him. The other see them from a moot. Traditional perspective in budged, Ishmael, arming religious, speak, death and see them as doc and evil beings. He take the full of shadows, not to give the labels like demons. This speak of could come from two Aereas one through religious doctrine nation of whatever persuasion, or this could possibly come from the feeling of feed read end Penick some few when encountering these beings. Of all the shed. I beans the hitman is seen in this letter category. As being particularly dock and evil, some of these shoulda people, especially the hitmen has been described as giving off a feeling of relive lands and created et salute fear and most who sees them, although actually, many people can feel fears simply because of the shop surprise and possibly confusion up his feels when viewing any paranormal or unexplained experience and not merely from the shadow Piz themselves the most common characteristics. Shedder people saw his feelings of impending doom depression or intense fear that seemed to radiate from the being self, although they are always some examples that contradict the rue some site. I in fact, have had positive experiences with this is co stored. When one he is about shedder, people's I simply jumped to the conclusion from what they've heard that the ego. They say not welcome them, but living not I say, they deserve a chance, and they shouldn't be could evil because not all I'm seventeen and have one in my living room. He eliminates my depression owes that -ness of been told it could be some mud did seen. It has a message for me of been cooled crazy and in jazz. But don't need people to believe what I see and feel from shed. I'm in a field, his energy and everything and nothing bad has happened to me. Merricks experienced when I am bedroom from tubal migraines must son serious showman. Standing at the foot of my beat by the window. We have lived in many countries. And he always comes when my migraines are extremely bed or I m sick. When my son was little the shadow man would might faces at him to make him laugh. And would also tell him to become when he was not now he just stands God of never seen him. But my son who is now teenager does he doesn't play with him anymore. But he does not to him as if to say, it will all be our k-. We have tried things like asking him to leave. But he just smiles shakes us. He'd M whites until I'm feeling bitter before disappearing is this relative were an angel. He certainly is looking out for meaning theory kind and food but with job to join. Jar. Scary. The. Scare. Scott. Spa. No. Martha. Scare. I really like that song. I use schedule it, but Sasha in featuring Ed mobile lessons done to creative Commons two thousand nineteen. For more information be showing check out my podcast that will Cain. The shadow lands dot com. This is Hannah who's going to shift who experience a shadow woman with us. So yeah, I was about living in our member. I was at SCO. I was in the classroom in out of the corner of my I I noticed a black shadowy figure just probably a couple of Mehta's away just behind some discs in a turn to look in. It was nothing. But when I turn Beck. It's there again, the shadowy Vega in feel you know, really angry prisons in. I can say just the just watching me anywhere out went. She was just in my perforate just woke. So did you feel a lot of malevolence in hatred coming from? It's more just Anga that I feel from her when she is around my mood tunes as well. Become angry pissed in Moscow being so young. That must've been pretty scary for you. Yes. Was shit apiece? And when you so her in the shape of female, oh, did you just get the feeling of FEMA energy? Not I could make out that she was wearing a dress, which is what gave it away. But I've never seen. Why she's appeared behind me Namara sh? She doesn't have a face. It's just like a Mets win. You see Hinna is she to find who ages like wispy end indistinct. It's. It's a bit of both really. I main Shays, you know to toll west bay in blurry. But at the same time at clear life. It's really hard to describe them isn't. Yeah. I hit the same problem myself. So how often would you see who? Do you think? I don't say so often anymore. Maybe once every couple of months, but from maybe the ages of eleven to fifteen sixteen it was basically constant. She was just always the diffult that hip she was during those times because of angsty period, full you like you going through puberty. You'll fund in yourself your emotions a really high that stage in do you feel that hit something to do with it? Yeah. I definitely. Presidents didn't help the teenage angst differently night, Wes. But yet that must've hit something today with the tons that you've seen whose sons have these been times of upheaval in your life. Yes. She does team to appear win when I'm struggling with something in my life, which is frustrating because oh, she does things wish the is a school of thought that these beings fade of the emotion stage in right in the future. Yeah. That sounds about raw deal Hinna that in tons. She see who that she's a we are. I think saw the are time Sweden. She she would do things to get my team Shen. I think, but you know. I remember one day. I was always at HUD. It not after SCO end could say out of the corner of my in the corner of my room in I wasn't paying any attention to her in a whisper to myself that I was you know, I just wanted to to go why in that moment might be dreamed dole flamed in the Mira fellow. We open the door in picked up my Mira in to my mom. Did you just slam the door, and she was like Hinna the door didn't slam? I vividly sore it in hood it in head to pick up my Mira. So this really interesting, you know, some research has told that an fake to ran paranormal encounters wouldn't mean, but owes faked is like you sort of feel nothing else exists, and you only in the moment. Everything seems really still Inzerillo and things that are helping to you necessarily who to experience authors. It's cut flock. You're in this cocoon. Uh-huh. Bubble and they could be a storm raging around you. But you wouldn't see feel all here at it's really an interesting phenomena. Do you have any experiences with shit Payson that stand out moving office after think about that one? Not particularly. I mean, the time, you know, the time the dole slammed in the time. I saw her behind me in the Mira. But as definitely stand out experiences, but other than that. She's just she's just the. Yeah. I just have to. Now, she's being around for so long that when she appears I kind of I know what's going to happen to my mode. Roy kinda handle it Beata. Yeah. So is that something you've learned over time? Do you think? You know, I don't think. I don't know how I would even get rid of. She's just she's physically Hameed saw. I can cook. With it have you if a toll to leave? Yeah, I have see before that, you know, I want her to go away in. I don't you know. I don't appreciate. Presents in my life. But it just it just makes things west really something it always just happens after a tool just Mahmoud will get worse. I'll get quite angry irritable. When. So it seems to me like you picking up him been influenced by veasley yet. When you took things getting what would happen like would things happen around the house, just a new life personally. Yeah. Up start having really really awful, not just. Horrific things. I couldn't I couldn't forget put down. He had just my personal Lhasa. It felt like everything was you know, on a downhill slope luxury state. That must've made things quite difficult for you. I imagine. Yeah. His she if a spark in two seed anything to you I used to when she was around more often I would hear voices like whispers when she was around occasionally. You know, as people it was like there was a voice coming from another room. Cooling to me that I never really aknowledged it. Good feary. If you family medicine hit NAR not. And I've never really experienced anything paranormal Nealon equa closed off to wonder if it made it a few when you still growing up midget did. Yeah. In retrospect, defeat with any reason, but she targeted you at that age yet stage of my loss. I was quite wake. I didn't have many frames. I was very right. This school of thought that should have people tug on people who are experiencing difficult periods. In the lowest Thomson Sidley might experience shut that. Because of the images you put up when you're going through much time you energies, Honey, charged in the suit is that these beings feet of the energies. When was the last time, you so you shut up woman. It was about in a couple of months now about timeouts ago. In was going through a difficult on just moved to the other end of the country in Australia struggling Bank. So I fought for my family, and I remember one not changing just standing at the end of my as I was trying to get to sleep when you so. Hello Hello to stay for the visit entity who flown just ahead of the sod of your is. It was just out of the corner of my shoes, they may maybe half an hour. And then I think I ended up drifting off to slight sees accustomed. You hit become his didn't even have to both to stay awake anymore. Memoir, labor, tow. It could for you. Well of thank you so much for sharing your story with us. I really appreciate that. It's the rot. Some foot of him mode. So Pippas, honestly headlong is a piece of string to try and describe humor sympathies to being always -ly. Not human really is the point six assize simply because I know human and the food do not think feel act in the same in of we might some people Heidi hold us in one TV show median by the name of AMI, categorically state that they only hit with eveland tint poops and to bring negativity I feel as though we need to be very careful to not ascribe human murders or actions to these beings. There are some of the schools of thought about these Baynes these come from sun ticket physiological speak rather than this burchell one one is that this phenomena is related to drug abuse. As this quite from the Phoenix new Tom's we've sought with discussing to twenty road tweaking, quote, also wind up blinds closed Sunday explains it so the shadow people count inside the shadow people, you should go at not Sean ED's. But what take chances in quite. So this implication as they show people official hallucinations from drug abuse. But not if we one who say's these beans are drug abusers or have mental health issues. So for very small percentage of experiences, the smut be felled reason. But it certainly does not explain the vast majority of all in article in the new science magazine in two thousand six that would discussing the scientific study the neurologist all of. Bank of the mind brain institute innocent Switzerland, where he and his colleagues were tempting to five source of epilepsy. Seizures in a twenty three year old woman. And I quote, they applaud Ahmad current three surgically implanted electrodes to furious regions of Brian not much happened until the research is stimulated the woman's lift temporal prot junction t p j like headed roughly above fifty suddenly she reported feeling the presence of mystery Pusan behind to a mush Mus inspe- each Lewis shadow that imitated hoop body. Plus, you end actions he life, and they when she laid set behind when she sit entertainment taika TISCO from who when she tried to participate in language exercise in quote, so they would and Pitztal research in activating, the Syria of the brain can explain some of these signs can explain a single. Poussin's saying something, but how do you explain it win law can my case four of us. So the same thing another explanation that is often put food for science said people a having sleep paralysis episodes sleep parenthesis is a feeling of being conscious but an able to move it occurs. When oppose some passes between stages of white furnace and sleep during these transitions she may be unable to move. It was speak for few seeking up to a few minutes. Some people might also feel pressure or since Chaikin how we have the is a real physiological Espy to sleep paralysis sleep paralysis does not in the list. Explain the majority of experiences that people have when water bike end state. This is Maria story. I don't know if it was Shiva his north ghosted haunted. The health we love them. But it was definitely black and could see it and felt evil. I would see it in my room almost every single not. When I was about fourteen I was curious 'cause I could see in. So I tried to ask questions, and then that just pissed it off in the next couple of days. It was just super aggressive. So did what came naturally got aggressive bet. But at the same time, I was really scared and fearful I started seeing like black portal things around the house during the day, it quickly disappeared so told did about what was happening and he pleased the Heff 'em room and taught me a cut Akia that his mom told him for protection. Sometimes it was sit Aumont bead or on my leaks are, but when I tried to ask what show name it pushed me down, and I've run out of the room crying in sleep with them. In the beginning. Nobody believed me so stop telling them what was going on a stop doing the Kirke. 'cause I felt like it wasn't doing much. It'll for me and up to few months. I ended up being comfortable with all of a sudden the last time I seen it must state of mind was completely different. I approached it like a new what I was doing. I felt relaxed and powerful nothing could touch me. I did the cover Kia Sipa come. And the unlike a force few Don came out of nowhere. It was like crystal clear with shining cameras, and it was growing from where I was and didn't stop in pushed the shadow out of the health end at navy came big. In this episode of oak in the shitter lands. We have talked about shed. I people what they look like series about. We've come from. And what people have she'd the experiences with us when I've researched the side of the podcast. I was frankly surprised at how many people have experienced these beans entities in the allies. They would just so many experiences. I could have perhaps may if you all interested enough to an episode just on his experiences lately know what you think you can Email me at Sharon's at Yahoo dot com. And if you like the show in please consider supporting me own Pedro dot com become a subscriber. And for few dollars a month. You can support this show and help cover hosting bent the end of expenses like rooty fees for any music. I may use future episodes as. A subscriber you'll get excess to beg hip sides of the show and extras also you will always get eb, salute appreciation and love patron dot com. Chick Lincoln on with site. WWW dot in the shadow lands dot com. Thank you very much for listening tonight today with you in this beautiful world avows. If you haven't already then please the scribe on chains and leave a supposed of writing interview sprint the would around about this podcast invite your friends family and week nights to subscribe and listen to and we will see you this time next week. Thanks for listening.
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Female athletes urged to think about fertility and maternity - now
"It's valerie valley and a vase torius. They it's the valerie eddin's we all know the champion short put her who wins and wins and ways but as she dedicated all those years to training and competing reaching for fiction. Something else was happening to her body. Now i didn't realize i had hope shit hetman there. My kids have i yes. I'm very pleased to be able to do five years. But if i lived a year later i would have been done that they wouldn't be at now. She's opening up about something very personal. You know gone through once in that in quite know why wasn't hectoring and i was producing eggs all the rest of it and That's being the tests and stuff come. Afterwards they found that was actually reynold with endometriosis and sharing. Her extraordinary story is a warning to other female athletes. One thing. I have learned through this journey for myself in particular that i really want to share as infect female athletes food whether they're on the relationship or not but they wanna be mom going his son. I'm sharon break kelly. And today on the details. I talked to newsroom. Suzanne mcfadden for her groundbreaking locker room series on elite female athletes and the bodies the tricky stuff periods having babies had to be moms and top sportswoman and suzanne couldn't have done it without talking to dame valerie. She was so honest and frank. And ollie. pen. I still say i couldn't have done a series without who voice in it because she's the iconic mammoth late. She's the one we all look to. And you know she is one of a kind really but at the same time. She's a great role model to female athletes. Who may want to have children and come back. 'cause you know it just. It's it's something that hasn't happened to three decades ago we didn't say this they might be the ordnance bowler who made a come back after the headed child but really you finished your career round. Twenty seven twenty eight so that you stop family and you didn't come bay but with professionalism that makes it easier for women to come back. The maternity policies of these sports who have them in a diet can have a person can with them when they travel. You can look after. The child have accommodation as well. Both mom in child looked after which is fantastic. Because the other thing that we were going to find out in the series is that a lot of women can pick stronger after the hague children. And that's fascinating to. Why did you decide to look into this. Issue of top female athletes pregnancy and motherhood. I actually went to syria kelly. Ross who was an olympic hip late for new zealand and she's one of our contributing writers locker room but she's also hit of new zealand olympic athletes commission. So i asked her. What is the binning issue for women in sport right now and she pregnancy did they surprise you a little bit. Yeah yeah because it's something that we don't really talk a lot about and until an athlete retires and and a lot of them retired. Sign this starting a family or when athletes have a baby and comeback but otherwise. There's very little spoken in about it. Do you think that's because we feel we shouldn't talk about it. You know it's it's not the thing to say to somebody a you. Are you going to have a baby or when you're going to have a baby. Yeah because it has a very personal decision isn't it and you know there are cases especially in sport as we finding out in the series where woman unable to have children or have to have Facility treatment to get pregnant so it is a very sensitive subject but it became more and more obvious that it needed to be talked about because these a message that needs to go out to sports to athletes coaches appearance that girls who is serious about sport or serious about even recreational activity native start thinking the teenage she is about they meet through circles and i need to talk to people about them and the teenage years. Yeah we saying now. A lot of teenage girls who are hitting all five days before or less covert happen but hitting overseas to start professional careers or or year to play for Scabs to go to universities in the states on scholarships and the not having knee periods. And it's it's because in a lot of cases low energy availability which means the not eating enough food for the energy that they're putting out and you i. Some gills will think fits great that they don heavy periods. It's a hassle and you know what happens if they're going to run an one hundred meteorites that at a national championships and i suddenly get the period on that morning. So it's an issue that really hasn't been discussed between athletes and coaches before But the issue of low energy availability also known as really syndrome. Was it called really syndrome. Well it's the initials of relative energy deficiency in sport so it's that not getting the balance right of energy coming in energy carrying out and there's a lot of consequences of that infertility is one of them is also for binds psychological disturbances cardiovascular problems it's becoming more and more prevalent in young women and was interested in talking to dr megan ogilvy at facility size saying that most of the woman who ah coming in that they sing with problems in the reproductive cycles are either on the catspaw have release so is it. Basically that is not enough eight and in the body. Yeah yeah exactly. Then it's called a high post-olympic amino area with periods stop because the hormones needed for reproduction and not produced his gynecologist. Dr patrick casey from america's famous mayo clinic the for that has been studied. And it's a little still unclear whether it's body fat percentage whether it's weight whether it's cortisol levels that stimulate decrease in gene our age based on stress and the intensity. All of that is a little bit unclear but at the end of the day of women will not have her period if she is to lean and she may be working out to intensely too long Many women athletes are trying to actually become quite lean because in endurance sports. It's advantageous to be lighter. F- long time we've told gu's and especially in teenage girls be more active be healthy whereas now doctors especially in this facility your era sign. No we've got to reverse that if you're going to be really active you have to eat to keep up with the way new started looking into it for the series way to go i. I went to individual sports. That i knew now have maternity policies so crooked and nipple the leading the way and looking after the athletes who want to get pregnant or i pregnant or even have had a child and coming back. I went to a great cool whisper. Which is a whole lot of medical experts who specialize in female health and sport. And so they have. They've come together and form the scrape which is fantastic because the again to do a lot of work and schools aimed with sports with young woman about you know just the general health because i love dr. Stacey sim sees woman at more mean. We can't continue to treat al sportswoman like this. I mean they're hell of a lot different. Especially when the eh and competition there are a lot of people out there who want to talk about. It is just a matter of husking with dean valerie. Story this great video of here. Enormous ways and she's twenty weeks pregnant emptiness. She got a lot of negative feedback. People very critical on social media about doing eight and endangering her baby in endangering itself but if she sees she's not doing anything different. My is used during. This is nothing new. York was really modified theory light and the mineral continue to believe my body within range and athletics. Zealand made sure that she had the right people around here during pregnant pregnancy so she could continue trying. I mean she trained the day before she hid his son just seems crazy. Yeah but everybody knew how to handle that muscle memory was the f- but the thing is that she actually hit trouble getting pregnant. She had to go through the i-i've program that she found out about who body as she was going through. That's my own intimate use apart from bed. Genetics she'd had a lot of pain with periods specially in the last five years When she was training. And switzerland's lift white and then she'd fall onto the floor and kill app and a bore. The pain was bad but some woman literally. It's normal. that pain with your periods is normal. And it's not and si- wasn't until she head his fifth round of issue and it didn't work that they discovered that she heading mitri isis is. She said she was rattled with it so they decided to try a longer stronger. Fidgety drugs and a second. Iv cycle. She was fortunate in that second round of ivy if they have adjusted seeks and the implementation. They've put to win. One survived which was in one. So we get to the freeze up in the second. Implantation putzer win once a month and there was my son. She knows how lucky she has a net set. She's not having any more she's done and now she's spreading the word about being a mammoth lead. He she is talking to a neekam more. What feels be having a baby or winning a gold medal. Homophobe have chemo on any. I'll get rid of every single gold medal. I've ever wanted and hip baby. Need a really amazing. Because she you know now as living in christ cheech foot three weeks of the month and then comes home to trend to family and who wonderful in the war is helping to look after the children while she's away but as a fame family dino that is probably the last olympics this is probably here last big event and they'll do everything they can to make sure that she's in the beast conditioned possible to guy for another gold medal. But did i read it right that. She's in christ church for three weeks and she basically comes back to oakland when she's got a period. Yeah yes so. She's doing training around him. Stroke cycle for the very first time. And she's loving it and say she's with the help of kutch dow stevenson. They found that and the fist two weeks after her period she does really hasn't strong. It's real strength and conditioning and the third week is kind of type ring off and learning new stuff and they in the fourth week is when she gets her period which comes simon. She doesn't stop training. But it's it's lighter training and she gets to spend time with family end sifi. She's laughing it. Why doesn't she go on medication. That stops appeared of. She's not gonna have any more children. Why does she go through the natural cycle. Why doesn't she offer something they would be. You'd think easier on here. I think part of that minstrel soccer training is that you get strength out of that. And if she was on the pill would dampen it down and maybe rejoice what she can get out of it late tonight. Yeah laughter i want. You know that's another thing that go into is it is becoming quite more mainstream now that late during the training female athletes around the midst ave. Yeah what is also amazing is that it's twenty twenty and this is only really being found out about now as we think about all medicine and all of research that goes into sport. Why is it only now that the top female athletes are finding out more about the bodies and how to try for nights really surprising. A and the would period has been taboo and sports teams for decades and now finally with the help of sports physicians and was physique as and coaches. I coming to teams with being able to to talk about some of them. You know i still took to the athlete about it but they can talk to the medical people about it and say you know Why didn't she do so well this week. That speaker she's in this part of cycle. You know the the other thing is that we were getting more female coaches top level. Who have been the lift with it and are able to talk about it. So as more female coaches come into prominence at the top of sports letters am. I think we'll see a lot more understanding the other. Lovely story that you've got is the one with liz elder. Who's the former black foods captain. She trains at blake park at mount long annoy and while she's trying she's keeping her eye on her house across the rose explain why lease his just had a daughter. The heater it's official child born through. Vive and least decided to come back to rugby. Pretty soon after having daughter at a house is across the road from pack which is fantastic. The training and games with the by a plenty volcanex that she keeps one eye on the when she's training because if she sees the lights flashing on and off in the lounge window and means it's time to come hyme and fade the baby so husband. Johnny weir flicked the light and like most code and she'll run across the pack going fade the baby and then run back to training. It's these amazing stories. Coming out of wat- athlete moms do to make it work and the s no starbuck guidebook with this A lot of athletes going blindly into having children and returning and that's another thing that these talks about is that she hit to kind of make your own rule book as she went along with the pregnancy and then afterwards but now athletes around the world at contacting here. And saying how did you do it. Kennedy's yeah can your us up a plan of how you did it and terms of what that going through the treatment getting pregnant and still doing yes. It like dame val continuing to try and up to a certain point of an rugby. The tackling was out contact. Part of the game was out that she was still able to weight training strength and conditioning and then afterwards of course fits you know an area to that. Needs a lot of attention. You know you can't just Start running two weeks after you've had a baby about it's very hard to find. Bought the be swayed a doer. So some of it. Some women have been doing at trial and error. She also weeks at by have plenty. Rugby and jaw is developing female players. So she's in this perfect physician to pass on everything that she's lint especially around whom menstrual cycle and in pass it on to these young women with the same message. That dime vow gifts is that no matter how young you are if you want to have a family one day half the tests. Now find out. Now you know if you have in dimitrios if you have polycystic ovary anything that may impact later on your facility. It's beast to know now and does that mean. We stopped searching on china. Have now we don't. There are options in how we bought the to options. So i use my platform to reach out to a lot of people might head of you. People contact meet privately to ask me where i've gone what i've done all the risks. Linda of this story. The stories of awesome awesomely turk her been successful when she was a mess. Thankful it's really had this evening. You're eighteen year old to start thinking about babies and nobody's telling them you have a baby now but more. How is your health. How is your reproductive health. And i think it's it's not just in sport. I think it's for all young women. I mean i hit immaterial. Isis still have. And if i'd known more. When i was younger i would've taken away a lot of pine and hot. I think so. My message to is exactly the same as the young woman. Look after your yourselves your health your reproductive health if you want to have children later on is new zealand leading the way in the syria. Yeah i think we are and and when you talk to some of the woman medical expense involved in this area. They go to conferences in the states and and they told new zealand leading the way. Especially this idea of having a group of medical experts together and working in a pulling everybody to be there to wiccan female health. And do you think it's going to change. How female sees top athletes manage the whole the reproductive thing and taking the pill because there's being the belief for years and years to take the pell you period and then you you know you can do anything you don't have to worry about all the pain and exactly you know the discomfort of it all and uae. Yeah it's would want to do that. Absolutely yeah but that's all changing now. People are finding out that actually the natural cycle is good foot for useful s. But also that the pill ken masks problems with reproductive health but it also can make at very high once you stop taking the poll to get back to an auditory cycle so that we are releasing exists man and in some cases that can take two or three years to build up again and know some woman. They've stopped you know and they made thirties playing sport. You know come off. The pill want to start a family but it's going to be a couple of years down the track before they can and it makes you wonder if they have three children that makes it not impossible. That really really difficult. So and a lot of people may disagree with us and that you know it's not be on the pill But of course you suffers in some cases help like marina de just makes life easier for them so that they can compete without that in a repeated pain every month. And you store your saints. Pioneering american runner kathrine switzer. Who now lives in new zealand was warned by talked in the nineteen sixties that who uterus would fall out of. She tried to run a marathon and she ignored him and all her internal organs remained in tae but it but anyway i mean maybe doctors were right in a way that sport is paid for women. Given what you've talked about here. Yeah i think it a different way your body. Pats aren't gonna accidentally fall out if you jump run casino. Kits become the woman to officially round the boston marathon and recounting it story. But you need to probably be bitter managed as athletes as women. You've got another toe stories in the series and one of those stories is about win moms can back the momberg as this is wayne state have had children in in decide to come back into sport and how easy or difficult that as what sports do to help those athletes and cricket rugby and the poll. You can now have a prison travel with you if you go even on tinley and new zealand war in that one day with each traveling overseas that putin contribute with you to look after your child and the lovely thing that comes out of that is that that baby becomes very special part of that. Chain that the mammoth. Let's talk about when that had a bad day out in the middle of the cricketers that come back in. He's the baby and an longer maters that they didn't score century. What made us as the baby in front of them. Irene van dyk. The famous buffoons shooter. She hit a child when she was still on the team. Daughter was she a pioneer in this area. Yeah bianca was born in south. Africa and iran was playing for the pro tears and essentially shea and has been wanted the daughter to have belives that i came to new zealand anti a. She was a pioneer and among coming. Beg fear eight top level nippon and as we know irene got bitter from year two years she went from strength to strength to see who and she was constantly leaning. And you wonder where the pata that was. Because you know you're constantly leaning as a mom and you're open to leaning she. She's been a fantastic role model for me out there and these these a few Amelia ran echinacea. The current thins kept in as a mum and it was really interesting that most of the athletes are taught to to this. The mammoth lakes. We're captains sinai. How they manage to do that. Hand be appearance is quite extraordinary. In some cases these women come back stronger physically as well as stronger mentally and my favorite thing comes out of it and will not know this. Is that your time management so summit speed and your priorities at different and family probably is more important than scoring a goal and a t switch. That's up for today. I'm sharon break. Kelly detail is brought to you by new soon. Dot co dot in seed and made possible by ariz. And inside on you can get us downloaded free to your mobile device every weekday from any podcast platform and if you using april leave us a rating so the people can find us to. This episode was engineered by. Jeremy ain't soul and produced by lixia russell with chang. Se associate producer. And thanks to susan mcfadden cockatiel.
Uyghur Muslims in China - Professor Rachel Harris
"Before we saw the show. I'd like to take a minute to ask you guys to help us. Keep the show alive by subscribing youtube channels and on spotify. Nike's please also take time to follow instagram. at the no-show put those of you can help a little bit more. Please contribute or patriot account which can be found on our youtube videos and website to get access to all these links please visit. Www dot the no show dot net if you're already aware the no-show cost an initiative designed to make academic research accessible to everyone. Why is it that we spend billions of taxpayer money each year to fund some of the most amazing research but never really get to know. What's in it by opening up the latest research a much wider audience. Not only do we expand our knowledge and understanding of the world but we also inspire young people who otherwise wouldn't know anything about this book is time we. The people getting voted academic research. Even if he's just as listeners so we can truly make education a democracy. So rachel thank you so much for joining me on a on the notion. I'm really pleased to have you just as a brief introduction to yourself could you ll audience. I know of a background about yourself. And how you came to research. The legal situation should go. I started out as a sign. Only gist guess. Some studying chinese culture. And then i found this Discipline of ethnomusicology. Which is really you know the study of music and sounded expression on on a global scale. And so you know. I started working in this region of seen jiang which is some now very much in the news of course because of the the terrible human rights abuses the recurring. I particularly became interested in questions of light religious practice. And i think that was partly because i spent a lot of time in my early career writing about Things people will usually called music so like mecom traditions in in central asia. But but when i started doing field work in in rural areas and spending more time with women. I quickly realized the things that were called music. Were not very respectable for women to do so effectively. I was being. There will be cut out of of my research. And so i i discovered the the their religious practice was actually extremely musical. You might say you know the the recited koran is of course you know. Based on on the rules of mecom they they they saw on beautiful melodic press about the The permanence of life and the need. Prepare the soul to the gray. You know and they. They wept off. So what does that am became very interesting for me. What drew you to these rural areas in the first place. I guess i've always been interested in finding out. You know really of listening to the voices of people who don't usually get highlighted in the corridors of power of the marginalized and some going into rural rural area of china. And especially when you're when you're talking about being an snow musicologist and sort of realizing that music is such a an important factor in fact is frowned upon. What so of transition did you make. Did you just say okay. I'll see what the what they're doing anyway or did you. How did you stay towards this. Islamic practice well disciplined. I think for a long time. We've recognized that the stuff that we call music is not exactly the same as other people in the world in different parts of the world cup music. You know so. I mean that wasn't a particular a concern for me. You know but it was just a recognition to the wall. The women were doing in the hetman. Gatherings was one very musical. One very important to them into the whole community and so really it it It was driven by got kind of perception. You know what i tried to work from. What's important to the people who i'm working with. So so can you give give me a lacquer feel for way was like in doing the fieldwork in these environments. Yeah i mean the first time. I sat in the middle of one of those gatherings it was it was like being hit by this heavy wall of emotion. You know i've never experienced anything like it when you're in the middle of a room and it's very dark and it's very crowded and claustrophobic in hot. You know and that was partly because it was some it was already quite underground. You know they were afraid of the someone spying on them and telling the local police that they were doing illegal religious activities. You know so. All the windows were shocked shops. And then there's the sixty women reciting the same rhythmic pattern over and over again and weeping and some of them going into a kind of trance and some you know when you come from this very kind of rational english kind of around and you know meant to cry in public and all of this. It's very challenging to your own kind of fundamental ways of being. So i sat in the middle of their and of course. It's very contagious. That kind of emotion and so it's not cry. And i i thinking i'm an academic. I shouldn't be crying and yes. It was very hard not to finally. After when i taught with the other women you know they were like oh i thought you were. You were a spy right. Sure because you didn't cry like this and it was only really one. I let myself half that experience emotional response that they accepted the i. Was you know someone that was located coach to really who was to his well. That's a good question isn't it. I think it is just the The the contagion of the emotions you know. I mean i'm i'm not a religious person walk. I understand that that would be very sad to to to hear me. Say that. But i mean you know that is not the truth. It wasn't my own kind of light engagement with with god that was with was bringing me to that. Feeding it was simply. Just the you know. The vibrations in the room a powerful saying just straightforwardly. Yes absolutely absolutely deputy much experienced something myself in that lend themselves to experience shows who can above. I'm but you mentioned that that they were so of apprehensive. I or like kind of suspicious at first. How did you saw manage to build trust for the fee to be able to do this well. You know that that you'd were was was very unusual. That i was able to go there and it was fundamentally because i am i went through family connections. My husband is we go. And we spending time in a village where we had family relations. And so i think the without that kind of direct connection there would be no way that we would have got official permission to to be that and also is unlikely women would have trusted us. You know so many as working as a as a team rainey with my husband she and army we. We've we've published articles together and you we've done lots of field together. The women's gathered. Obviously he can't come in there. The mocks guida. I mean it sounds. Sounds like a really really useful sell. The husband had but in terms of so the response that the authorities had. Would you go into those areas given that those areas are widely so considered to be suspicious. You know have to be monitored. How was the authorities response to you. Go in there. Yeah i mean. It's always being always since i started trying to do research in this region a long time before i met my husband even is it always been very difficult to to get out of the cities you know. There is this fundamental thing Amongst chinese officials which goes all the way up to talk government down to light local village officials. And this question of life. You don't want to lose face. And the primary way to lose face by showing foreigners poor people to understand that but renews in extreme aversion to to latin letting a see any for poverty you know because they assumed that was how they would be judged. That's really fascinating so then aspect of the show suspicion or choose. The oil wasn't in play with more. Just them trying to save face. That was the fundamental thing you know. You know. I i think he is wrapped up together. You know i mean so. There is a a judgment of society as being poor which demonstrably in various still is you know but also of it being backward. You know that they have this very strong narrative of flight social and educational development in so poor. Rural people are backwards. Don't you know that uncivilized. So they didn't want foreigners in engaging with either they didn't want that kind of to be seen and so you know also of course you know they didn't. They didn't want the country's citizens to be like that backward and lacking in civilized qualities and they judge Light islam fundamentally as as an important part of why. Those people were backward. You know so. So so you know my my. My interest in in their religious faith and practice was obviously a big problem. And of course that is also all wrapped up with the whole kind of campaign in xinjiang. You know i mean. Obviously you can't argue. The million wiggles row religious extremists and terrorists. I mean it's ridiculous isn't it And we have to keep saying that mean that is still the argument writer. They locked up a million people because they said they were. All you know in in danger of becoming terrorists because they were infected with religious extremism. You know i mean it's madness. Isn't it but i mean. The problem was the the definition of religious extremism which was fundamentally religion. You know they they were. They believed in islam and so automatically you know they were in danger of becoming terrorists. You know i mean that's it is ridiculous thing tip but i mean that is obviously an attitude which is not only confined to china to is reflecting for major attribution of really justly towards either terrorism counterterrorism. And there's this narrative that you're a you're either your religion either. Part of the problem of the solution hit. There's no alternative viewpoint. Yeah yeah you know. So i mean undoubtedly has taken to to an extreme In the region. You know. So i mean your bid would get you into an internment camp like a shock. You know i mean that would be one of the seventy five signs of religious extremism. You know people people. Sometimes i ask you know so okay if you if you think. The chinese authorities are islam phobic. Then why is it. The the chinese speaking muslims have been relatively. Okay why is it. Only the wiggles and not the the way muslim chinese suna an that is also to do to do with this problem of flight. What they regard civilized. You know so you can get away with being muslim in china as long as you kind of you speak the chinese language and as long as you'll mosque has like this nice slope in chinese reuss instead of a middle eastern minaret down you re so many interesting especially about the campaigns on again to that in a minute i wanna ask you about your experience. Being in an amongst how house they live. Why is it seems backwards by the chinese. Yeah you know it is interesting to think about my own kind of personal journey. Because i i started out. Last studied chinese first and then i started visiting this this region of xinjiang east turkistan as the way it was kona. Am i think when i arrived there. You know as someone who is speaking chinese and not speak for and who is mainly spending time with chinese people you know i. I really absorbed the attitudes of chinese people that which were were quite intolerant and fearful. Because now so i mean you know. There are clearly problems of of interesting tensions and racism in the region and the sky q. Decades more mostly. Yeah so you know it it. It took took quite a long time to change and really the the way they did was was obviously by by spending more time with people. You know it's such an obvious thing isn't it but then you know you you you might those personal connections and you eat together and you you play music together for me. you know. That was a away in your understand. The humanity of people the very sadly of course increasingly in that region and the chinese inhabitants. And the the the muslim populations weren't mixing so they won't having those those opportunities to to come together and recognize each other's dity this. It's really it's it's really Of a complex issue because to anyway. Because you really have to take with a pinch of salt the fact that this extreme coverage of like this situation win in these camps from people at fox news and cnn who. You know obviously don't have the muslim interests at heart and it's more of a political play to sort of go hand in hand with the trade or they have with china but that doesn't obviously take away from the fact that the the comes to exist and there is terrible things happening so from the so i'm guessing through the through connections through family excetera. What is the situation in. Those comes so you know. I mean they're terrible things coming out from the comes. It's it's been quite difficult to get reliable information because they are so secretive. There are now people who have been released and allowed to get out kazakhstan for example or people who were in in the early stage who who've managed to get out to to turkey and we have some some very powerful testimonies from from those people so aside from the basic regime that goes on about the education and self criticism that people mant to undergo and this kind of learning of the thought of siege in the chinese president and singing revolutionary songs of this. But i mean it's it is the the accounts of the the brutality and the abuse is going on with which is really very disturbing. So you know their their accounts of rape which gritty now very well documented Degradation of food deliberate torture. That's very disturbing stuff this coming out. One of the challenges in this situation is trying to unpack the truth from from. Obviously the the general problem that is happening in china and obviously like you said at the beginning you call. It's not feasible. That many people terrorists so feasible people who extremists. But anyhow on the other hand you have come up from the syrian government and iraqi government that say up to five thousand or good jihadists in syria up to ten thousand jehan. This have been killed in iraq. These are extremely large numbers. So how does that sort of lends itself to the chinese attitudes towards arabia's. Yeah i i. Of course i don't deny the truth. The validity of those those reports are. I know very well that there were large numbers. Move of wiggles. Who ended up can syria and ended up in in iraq. Yeah you know. I mean we. We need to retrace back what what happened to those individuals in in detail to understand really what was going on. You know so the islamic revival if you want to call it that you know these kind of these these the social developments these religious developments of like new kinds of islam. Reformist islam coming into wiggle communities that that was going on since the nineteen eighty s. Even eight ninety. You know these preachers were were traveling around local villages. They will create new forms of islam. You know and so like the the forms of religious belief and practice people followed. It did begin to change. I mean there's no doubt about that Which of course. It's not necessarily to say that. The new forms of his arm that were coming in were extremism terrorism. Just saying you know that. We're reformist forms of islam coming in but that began to make your local authorities nervous. They didn't recognize it. Didn't like it. fundamentally i think that kind of shift in religious sensibilities was a threat to the authorities. So they started to crack down. And so we're ready in the mid nineties. You have these kinds of them. you know. be crackdown on religious expression. And you know always a lot of repression of freedom of speech and the right to demonstrate and all these people were not existing on a level playing field and people began to to to find ways to run away. You know so. There were a lot of people who left went to malaysia. They tried to get out turkey because they experiencing constant daily harassment from from the local police. You know so in these situations you know it's some. It's not hard for for that kind of anti state sentiment to breach. You know if if you've been locked up a few times surfer minor infringements of of rules. You don't understand. You know. I mean radio should be talking to my colleague. Show roberts about these kind of questions because he has been writing for quite some time now about what he calls a self fulfilling prophecy china webuye china back in two thousand and one labeled the was pretty much as an ethnic group as extremists and terrorists and the policies that enacted on the basis of that assumption. Really in the end brought about the reality. They kind of anticipated so so he spent a lot of time in istanbul. Doing interviews with wiggle migrants. There some of whom think could be fighting in syria and he traced these kind of international networks or from people who some being smuggled to malaysia indonesia and then to to turkey and sometimes they were they were fighting in syria because they they incurred so much debt for example They paid such large amounts of money to the people smugglers that they needed to join up in order to pay off their debts. You know things like that so you know when when you start looking at specific stories of individuals who have from followed these kind of journeys than you know. You're much better able to make judgments about who is a terrorist who is not The most common thread. I encountered with looking at at terrorism attacks in the kale throughout europe. Or is that it stems. From a both ninety from the individuals and an enormous enormous limit of inequality that they they faced which are alternate in direction. Now in the case of the apis moving forward. Is there a possibility that there could be some kind of reforms put in place. That is a fan to both boys to to the community to sort of say to ensure that okay. We're gonna have these measures that we don't have extreme number of people going to find places or is it just i think that's Isn't just like a too complex to be sold. I don't believe that it is too complex. The problem to be solved. I think that you know the that would surely be waste to create a more equitable environment for wiggles as a people and as a coach to flourish. But unfortunately i think we are very long way away from that in the moment and really you know. The the wholesale nature of this campaign which is now underway on the xi jinping under which. We've seen you know hundreds of wiggle intellectuals people who have entirely secular and wiggle musicians we were comedians. You know this whole kind of latte of of cultural and political leaders has effectively been silenced. Wiped out you know. They've been Sacked from that job said they're city in interment camps many of my colleagues in and so i worked with them for years still sitting in term and with them now news of their whereabouts. You know i mean why. Why would they detained. All they likely. Is it likely that they have been infected by the virus of islam and prone to violent attacks. You know of course not is is rubbish. So i mean what what i think is really going on. There is a is a very deliberate attempts to cultural erasure. You know it seems very clear to me that the the the decision has been made right at the talk chinese governments and you can see this from leaked documents that Xi jinping himself has been directly involved in this decision which is to You know to stalk all recognition of oil identity and culture except where it's a kind of a surface recognition tourist attraction fundamentally to to to to dissipate the use of language to dissipate cultural identity. And so you see the The interment of the the cultural elite you see massive disruption of communities with these big rehousing projects. You see the destruction of all kind of religious architecture. The the removal of cemeteries of graveyards. So all this seems clearly designed to separate we was from their cultural and religious roots and to to drive forwards very hard policy of assimilation. I wanna ask you about a about your new book soundscape. Firstly who's the look for. That's an academic book. You know so it. It was written for for an academic audience oversee people my home discipline a vietnamese ecology and also for for people who are interested in the academic study of that that region so centralization. It's scientologists you know. I mean as as well as the book itself. I try to reach out to wider audiences. So i've done a fair amount of blogging in public speaking and talking to various media outlets since since the crisis ready blew up in two thousand seventeen just to get to try to get my my ideas out there. It's been an interesting journey for me. You know because. I had very little media exposure or experience of how how to really get the message out before before versus this is obviously the lucas was was really interesting about the book is is is based on ten years of real like indepth research into these communities these practices. What do you hope somebody who who picks would hope they get from in terms of like in in terms of content in terms of understanding the region primarily that they engage with the humanity of the women that i was working with. You know i i. I give quite a lot of space in the book to their. That words know directly quote them. I trust them. It was one of those are decisions that you have to make an. I include their images in the bowl. Connect include their photos and of course we decided that would not be good idea. You know so i mean. That's the important thing primarily but also you know just just to also press the importance of my approach to understanding you know so the value of that kind of personal engagement the value of actually being in the region and spending time talking to people. You know i mean. There are so many experts in counter-terrorism. That who who have from a very important voice in in various arena. You know and i. I personally think that that that forms of knowledge gathering deeply inadequate fogged up to the So we're competing find your line beckham people of find the pieces that you worked on and just in general just working people interact with your rights rights. Well you can find my my attached through my my personal profile on the so as website so as university of london we have website linked to the book which is cool down sounding islam in china. We've go look good material out. That and i'm on twitter. Oh what's your initials sir. Rachel a harris link everything onto the episode anyway so people can have direct access to it. I'm just finding advice for anyone looking to sort of understand the communities annoyed slum situation in a bit more detail work. What advice would you give them. Well if you're dealing in an english language then. I'm very fortunate to have some great colleagues out there who have also produced excellent books. I've already mentioned sean. Roberts name also press darren by ryan thumb the there's a great community of scholars that you know and if if you want to to engage with waco voices than there. Lots of people active again on twitter. Some great. you know young people if you want to know more about the situation in the camps ready extraordinarily organization called the scene jiang victimns database with a lot of testimonies gathered from people who have been detained or who have relatives who are in the camps. There lot of very brave. I think very brave young wiggles out there on social media. Now who's been engaging in these kinds of campaigns like me to will go is a good one And they've been filming their own personal testimonies again about their their relatives and putting those online. So so there's a lot. Out that there's a great wiggle youth network called taro network which promotes various causes and introduces like young young wiggles in the diaspora who doing interesting things. So there are many ways to get engaged. Relax excellent this. This really healthy amount of resources of the rachel. Thank you so much for joining me. I'm piece of choice to speak to you and hope to have you on sometime in accurate mashed having made just like to take a moment to kind of remind you guys to subscribe to our show and oprah 'cause platforms and youtube as well as instagram. You can find all these links on. Www dot the no-show dot net. Join us today. Be part of the research revolution.
75 - Robots
"Hello and welcome to sideshow Tangents Lately Competitive Knowledge Showcase starring some of the geniuses that make the Youtube series sideshow happened. This week is always. I'm joined by Stephan joined you. What's your favorite season's summer? Is it the one that California is all time just as hot as it can be hot and dry? What's your tagline? All them canned goods all of them. That's that's the way to go right now. Sam is here as well. What's the best grid pattern for planting plants in animal crossing new horizons so well? Sarry just forwarded me a very interesting link five five. It's more complicated than that. I won't get into it but okay. What's your tagline? Well it was GONNA be five by five flower. You kinda ruined it for. Oh sorry Sarah Riley is here as well Seri. Who is the Tiger King? Oh no he's like a man with a bleach blonde hair and moustache. I have avoided watching tiger king so I us. Yeah anything that I know about. Him Is just myth and legend and it seems like the show is so wild. You could tell me anything and I'd be like sure that happens like a Mandalay to Kazoo and rode a tiger around. Be Like yes. The premise of the tiger King Sara. What's your tagline marshmallows? Surprise and I've in Green and my tagline is ten thousand wipes every week here on. Cy Should Tangents. We get together to try to one up amaze and delight each other with science facts playing glory. And we're also keeping score and awarding Sam Bucks from week to week. We do everything we can stay on topic. But we're not great at that. So if you go on a tangent and the rest of the team deems that tangent unworthy will I you to give one of your sandbox so tangent with care now as always introduced this week's topic with additional science poem this week from Surrey Flashing Lights Worrying Motors? Two legs made of steel an unfathomable head with sensors concealed. What powerful feats metal beasts might complete? Oh it just did a backflip. That's frigging sweet. We imagine our bodies our movements hots wrapped up in circuitry and made into mascots that concept dear humans is inherently fraught because robots are not exactly what we were taught sneak like tubes or big welding arms watering farms or sounding alarms little vacuums that clean while doing no harm. Even soft robotic prosthetics have their own charm where they're machine is uncanny or chunky space probe the size of an elephant or a tiny microbe. One thing rings true in every scientists heart will never stop programming robots to Fart. Who'S THE FIGHTING ROBOT? I didn't know about this either? There's a thing called the the row but it is an interactive farting figurine by. Wow lives available at game. Stop and Walmart. This is really interesting because I also found a robot same name but it's used by Ford to test out car seats and so like fits like a human male would in a car seat and sweaty. This is like a but that sits on car seats. Does it communicate. Its own comfort to to you. Know I think it. Like is to simulate wear and tear on the car because people are trading in their cars for new cars less often raise the impact on the seat not not the impact on the but yes. I'm willing to take that job on a hundred thousand times. This is why they gave that job to a robot. They can't afford you. Sarry what is I mean? What does the robot a robot like a but has an impact on the physical world around US computer program that stays contained within a machine calculations? That's not a robot but if it can interact with the physical world I think what about like a CD player them because it like spins a CD. I guess that's kind of a robot. Yeah I guess kind of it seems like scientists don't have a distinct definition of a robot The Robot Institute of America says it's a reprogram of all multifunctional manipulator designed to move material parts tools or specialized devices through various programmed motions for the performance of a variety of tasks so like Cd Player fits into that. Maybe well what's the difference between robot in a machine? I think robot starts to get at like we're talking about doing tasks so like a machine is like a toaster That you have to manipulate yourself so you like you have to be the human finger to push down the toaster button but a robot toaster would like grab the bread for you and stick it in go and then pop back up and you would have to do nothing like it would replace you so you wouldn't be necessary in the toast making process anymore. Okay I feel like we sort of had the idea of what a robot was before we had robots so as well it. Robot is Is a machine that does human things and looks human in acts human but can can do more than a human cam physically at least like May and then we were like. Yeah but actually we're going to have real robots but they're not gonNA fulfil out of those categories because most robots do not look anything like people because their goal isn't to replace people it is to do an action And so it is just the one part of a percent that is most useful to is like an arm yeah so all the science fiction robots that we Sierra like very humanoid Usually programmed with some sort of artificial intelligence So that they can make decisions about a wide range of things. That technology is very very far off doesn't exist but a lot of our robots are just like I've program to this thing to sit on car seats I mean you're the the robot institute of America or whatever the organization was said it was a programmable thing which was interesting to me because a lot of what we think of now is like robots that kind of program themselves in the same way we can make decisions it can use like simple artificial intelligence to figure out its own decision making or its own object identifier in so it in some way is doing its own programming. So it's almost like if we have that kind of artificial intelligence or even like a generalized artificial intelligence. It stops being a robot at that point it becomes something else sarry. What is the Etymology of the word? Robot? Because I know it's interesting but I've forgotten So the word robot comes from a Slavic language I think check or whatever they were speaking in early nineteen hundreds called robot Or which means forced labor and it was clean called raw soms universal robots by playwright called. Carl topic and it was just about mechanical. Men that are are built to work in factory assembly lines in that rebel against their human masters which is like doing that. Yeah ROBOT STORY BEFORE. Robots where a trope. Yeah I mean it was yes. A trope has to start somewhere. And then Isaac Asimov used it and the word robotics and a short story and he was a little bit more optimistic about how robots would help out humans instead of be part of an uprising and he was the one who came up with like the laws of robotics that robots won't harm humans. And things like that. Yeah the great thing about the laws of robotics are that they re really require a huge amount of understanding on the part of the robot. Nowhere near like. How do you know when you've harm to human? Seems very obvious to me. I know what I'm harming a human boy. A robot could downright destroy. You and have no idea did it now. It's time for one of our panelists. Says prepared. Three science facts for our education and enjoyment but only one of those facts Israel and the rest of us have to figure out either deduction wild guests. Which is the true fact if we get it right we get a SAMBUC. If we're tricked then Stephan will get the Sandbox Stephan. What are your three facts okay? These are three facts relating to water based robotics. Oh so fact number one a UK based Hobby robot assist created a bunch of robotic versions of different swimming dinosaurs so that he could raise them some researchers. You heard about this got interested and we're particularly interested in his please. Yes or a robot because the police officer is a little bit unique amongst animals because it has four identical flippers. And so there's been some mystery about how it moves. And so by studying his robot they figured out how please move their flippers. In relation to one another. That's fact number one number two. The modern conditions around the Great Barrier Reef have led to a population explosion in giant Reef Eating Sea stars which has led to the development of a fleet of autonomous robots. That can patrol the reefs looking for these sea stars and delivering lethal injections of Bile Salts to kill them. What salts bile salts bile like stuff that your liver gallbladder number three one company is taking life boats to the next level by turning them into autonomous firefighting watercraft that once deployed can automatically navigate to humans that are stranded in water as well as fire water cannons at flames that spots on the vessel? So we've got fact number one. A Hobby robot assist decided to race some swimming dinosaurs and this taught us potentially real please. The assorted swam number. Two there are some bad see stars on the Great Barrier Reef and that's led to the development of a fleet of autonomous robots that can look for and inject lethally the stars with Bile Salts or three a company that is taking lifeboats the next level by turning them into autonomous firefighting watercraft that can automatically navigate to human stranded in the water and shoot water cannons at the flames. Fire can so and not be helpful shooting. I feel like I have heard about People making sweet like like racing robots for fun and also for Science said. This one has credibility this first one has credibility for me that like one of the ways and I also heard about lots of like swimming. Robots and how we're going to figure that out But I really liked the idea that like somebody was just having fun and then there were like actually can use. Send US your video because we're a little bit confused about how please the source work. Yeah I could totally imagine a scientists nerd like looking on his shelf and being like. Oh I have these dinosaurs wonder if I can make a move and then doing that because that seems like what I would do if I was bored and had like engineering skills yeah like. I don't think that I could do it but I could imagine how. Someone might make a robotic easiest sore fairly easily kind of Yes they got the paddle paddle fins and they got a long tail and a long neck. Sounds like the plot like a mega man game or something to me. Ten San Real the Sea Star. One sounds too sad and also a little bit too specific artery giant. Repeating CEASARS is at a thing. I have no idea. I know that sea stars eat all kinds of stuff but I do not know about the sea star situation on the Great Barrier Reef. Yeah and I don't know if sea stars would have any need for eating like bleached coral or if they were eating whatever as allies or they'd be eating the living stuff yet whatever slash not. Yeah Yeah I guess I could see a case to protect whatever's left then if they were these giant you know stuff and if these sea stars bill belong there are they invasive. Had they get there? I'm not one hundred percent sure but I think they're more specific than others. I think I talked about some kind of algorithm that can take a census of what fish live in a reef some in some kind of adaptation of that idea and then. I mean an autonomous lifeboat. That can rescue people and shoot water like that feels real because like if it's not being done just upon hearing it. I'm like that's not a thing. I should found an autonomous lifeboat. Company machine learning could easily know what fire looks like and one of the great things about autonomous boating. Like there's this less stuff to run into in the ocean. Yeah on roads like it's very easy to like. Leave the road and that's a big problem on the ocean. It's very hard to leave the ocean. All right WHO's GonNa Guess? I guess dinosaurs just because I think it's fun. It is fun Sam. Hetman dinosaurs too because I think both teams slightly too boring to be the right answer to me. That's true it is a little bit boring and I'm GonNa go with starfish because I know that that is the correct answer. Because I've read about this. Ah Hank is correct is this aren't so there's apparently there's the three major threats to the Great Barrier Reef our climate change pollution and these sea stars They're nasty has so they're called the crown of thorns starfish. And they're one of one of the largest sea stars and they're about a foot wide In their covered in these venomous spines And over the past decade or so their populations have boomed a lot because all the agricultural runoff going into that area causes these Algal Blooms and the sea star. Larvae are eating that algae so they are having a grand old time over there and we also had some natural predators but we ended up overfishing those predators. So it doesn't have any like checks to its population except roebuck south. Robots so they do eat the corals once they reach like maturity. They eat the fast growing corals. Guess which is good if you have a little bit of that because it makes some room for the slow growing morals to establish themselves but it's estimated that these sea stars are responsible for about forty percent of the overall coral loss that we've seen some pretty big deal Mr Matthew Babington who's a professor at Queensland. University of Technology was all the way back in two thousand five starting to develop these systems and they had like sort of rudimentary vision system. That could recognize the sea stars like two thirds of the time but at that time they didn't have a good way to kill them. They had like some kind of lethal injection. But you had to inject all of the twenty arms and it's difficult to reliably but in twenty and this is something that people would do like divers. We go down stabbed different legs of a starfish and then move onto the next. We've got one venomous too right. So they were trying to get stabbed back. Have these long long stabby Poles but by twenty fourteen. We had found this bile salt injection thing that has a one hundred percent mortality. And you only have to poke at one time And then by that point. His vision system was capable of identifying the sea stars over ninety nine percent of the time they went through a couple rations. I think but they ended up with what they're calling the ranger bought when it's about a meter long got a bunch of propellers so that it's really maneuverable and I guess the battery lasts about eight hours and it can go at night. It can go during the day. If there's a storm out can go any time and it super easy to control. I guess they did a lot of user testing to make sure that it was user friendly. So you know people who are trying to save the reefs can go out and plot courses for these robots and control them And as a bonus it has a bunch of like sensors on it so it can monitor the reef health while it's out there looking for these sea stars and killing them And last last I had read there were about. I think there were five of them. That were operational. But they're not yet widely available to different like reef management teams The idea is to have a bunch of these like fleets just all over the reef fats. Cool next up. We're GONNA take a break and then it'll be time for the fact off now. Welcome everybody Sam Buck totals. Jerry has one I have one Stephan has to and SAM has none in the NFL. Exactly why did it in that order your chance Sam because we can time for the factor where to panelists have brought science facts and attempt to blow everyone else's minds the present easy to assemble to award of the fact that they like the most and we will decide? Who goes first with this trivia question as series said? The word robot first appeared in Czech playwright Carol Capex play rostrums universal robots in. What year did this play Premier Alpina say nineteen seventeen who? I'm going to say. Nineteen Four. Oh k. I'll say oh it was nineteen twenty one. Oh Nice okay. We were pretty close. I want to go first So once upon a time in the old days rich people had people put their clothes on for them but that is still something that happens for some people who need help getting their their garments on and off and this plenty of reasons why age injury other kinds limitations so scientists at Georgia Institute of Technology have got a robot to start to figure out how to dress a person so they used prebuilt research robots thing that already existed called the PR too and that can be programmed to do things like fold towels or grab drinks for people from the fridge. They wanted to learn how to dress a person which means you have to let it fail and make mistakes but robots. Making mistakes with a real human body would be dangerous because as we discussed earlier robots do not know when they are killing you so they had a robot studied eleven thousand simulations a robot putting a hospital gown onto a human arm and had the robot analyzed the kinds of forces it can apply in the motions can make and how those forces emotions affect the person who is getting dressed in some of those simulations. They intentionally had it go very wrong. So like the gown would catch on the hand or the thumb or the elbow and to deal with it. The simulated robot would then apply a dangerous level of force to the arm and those were given to it as intentional failure states. So it would know. This is bad. This simulation went very wrong. Never ever do this so that there were eleven thousand of these simulations and it got through them in one day. Because it's a computer and it can do that. And then it moved on after that day to dressing people and it was able to do that by which. I mean it was able to put one sleeve on one are of one person in about ten seconds which is like you know. Maybe not as fast as I would do it but but plenty good importantly here it is using touch so it it can feel how things feel on its fingertips to figure out what the person getting dressed might be feeling and also using it site. So it's it's feeling and watching and using all of that information at the same time and then from all those movements all the simulations and all the data is getting can sort of pick the best motion forgetting the that arm into the sleeve which so far so good As of two thousand eighteen it was able to put the surgical gown on the arm of a person. Getting a person fully dressed. We'll take more work. We're on our way. Yeah it's worth never have to put me on pair of pants on every again it's also worth it. If the robot doesn't rip your thumb trying to put your. Yeah all right Sam what you got for us. Hey so one. Big Hurdle encountered when making robots that are intended to interact with and like walk around in their environments as maneuverability so when people in animals move around they're balancing their like path finding their dressing changes the incline and they're like jumping around and they're even transitioning from like water to land to see and not to mention that robots run on batteries and they can't stop and eat like a bug or a bunch of grass when they need to keep going not yet at least and there've been a lot of advances in Robo Mobility but they can't really compare to good old fashioned flesh and bone so researchers at the Korea Advanced Institute of Science and Technology. Took a kind of weird freaky shortcut. They developed what they call a parasitic robots system that common years and organic being and pretty much uses them. Like a horse There I and I think the only test subject that they've done so far. We're a bunch of turtles. Red Eared slider turtles They were chosen not only because their fibia so there would be lots of options for the different kinds of terrain. They could do but they have good memories and they come with a big old shell that you can glue a bunch of electronic components to So the robot is basically like a little microchip brain hooked up to a battery and then a bank of five red led lights that are mounted horizontally in front of the turtles face and then a like a little container of food. That's like a Gel and spray nozzle that they positioned near the turtle's mouth so for two weeks before they started this experiment. Turtles were fed while they were looking at a red. Led light then then they put the robot on them And the robot had instructions to move the turtles along certain path so to do this lineup. One of the five red lights in the direction closest to the way they wanted the turtles to go and if the turtle went the way that they wanted it to the turtle would get a little Gel treat from the robots food tanks so after five weeks of doing this the robots were guiding the turtles through sixteen feet of track in seventy five seconds with a deviation from the ideal path of less than three percent so one of the big challenges that the researchers faced was that the turtles would sometimes get distracted by stuff. That wasn't the red lights in front of them. Future experiments they are planning will use full. Virtual Reality Turtle headsets to ensure that the parasitic robots have complete total control of the turtles. Way less bad than I thought it was going to be. Still Scary. Thought to be drilled holes in these poor boys heads. I know I think. They just glued the things onto their shall. I don't think any holes were drilled anywhere in the house. I'm very impressed. That turtles are this trainable had never really thought about trying to train a turtle. I sense that I am in trouble. Do you guys wanted to choose between the two facts. We have ten thousand simulations some of which were violently incorrect tweeting to a robot that can put a sleeve onto a person in ten seconds or Sam's amazing parasitic robot turtle three to one and only because the dressing robot only got one arm. If it had gotten the other arm I would've been lying. Yes but they had complete control over these turtles That's right unless the turtle guys thank you too good at science journalism where you were like okay. Slow your expectations. One arm starting with a fully automated closet that addresses. You is on the way and that means it's time for ask the science couch where we have some listener questions for couch. A finely honed. Scientific Mines at treehouse down asks. Why is robotics skin so hard to make? Well it depends on what you mean so like just covering something in plastic is not hard but if you wanted to sense that is very hard it turns out so there are like a number of reasons. Why one because like we sense many different things and to because like the nerve density of our ability to sense and then and then to send that information For each little bit of skin like it's. It's amazing that we can do this. But if you're trying to do the robot you have to have each like tiny bit of resolution of skin feeling resolution to like. Have a separate wire that connects to a frigging central. Processing Unit. And that is just. It's it's miserably difficult. That's one of my understandings at least of this. Who is making robots skin and why they making robot skin? Do you really have to ask not just any robot to be able to select take the arm robot that has to touch someone's arm and be like oh. I'M GONNA put a sleeve on this It needs like touch receptors to know how much force it's putting on that arm. It needs probably like temperature sensors to be like. Is this a living corpse kind of a bad example? But it's important that's important. You wanted to understand the world around itself so it runs into something. You wanted to know that that happened and a lot of times right now. It just literally can't know and if it does no it knows that something happened but it doesn't have any idea what in grand into our in what direction. Okay Yeah in the way that we have like spatial orientation we know how our body is arranged relative to itself so we know our arm is to the right or to the left of our body. For example that's all nerve endings. It's called Proprio -ception and it's in our muscles and our skin and so like in order to have especially humanoid robots but any robot. That's doing a delicate task. You need some equivalent of skin with all these sensations to do the delicate actions about as far as answering the question. Hank is right. It's mostly just because our skin is so dang complicated In addition to all the wiring stuff our skin can get damaged and still function. And that's a hard part of Approximating skin so even if we have a cut in our skin that doesn't mean all the nerve endings are suddenly destroyed. But if you have a cut in robotic skin that slashes through sensor that could mess up the whole system right and so a lot of innovations in Robotic skin technology are electrical engineering related and have to do with programming the electronics and the signals. So that the processor that is receiving all of them doesn't get overloaded with information. There are a couple different ways that people are experimenting with it. One is called asynchronous coated electronics skin or aces. Which I think it's similar to this other one the way it send signals is not all at the same time at spaces them out in such a way that there isn't like a big backlog of signals like waiting to be processed and another one it's like above a certain threshold of activities. So like if you put a hat on your head your head senses it it's like aw that's weird there's a hat on my head But after a little bit of time your head just becomes used to it unless something else changes like you take it off And so they're trying to program a robotic skin to mimic that so like it recognizes the change in temperature or pressure and then recognizes it for a time but then when it becomes part of the robot state of being so that you can focus your processing energy on other things we cut to do that to where like to tune things out after the signal has been there for a while. Yeah it's like I don't know where your tongue is until I said that Sam's constantly thinks about his time if you want to ask the science couch you're questions. Follow us on twitter at. Sei Show tangents where we will tweet out the topics upcoming episodes every week. Thank you to add Camilla verse thirteen and at Little Chris and everybody else who tweeted us. You questions this episode. Sambuc final scores Sayer. You and I are tied for last with one point salmon. Stephanie tied for first with two so for the season that brings us to Seri in the lead with thirty seven points followed by thirty six Stephan thirty-five Sam and thirty four hang neck and neck tightly packed. If you like this show and you want to help us out. It's real easy to do that. I you can leave us a review wherever you listen. That's helpful and helps us know what you like about the show second. You can tweet out your favorite moment from the episode or just Save Nice stuff to us on twitter and finally if you want to show you left or sideshow. Tangents just told us. Thank you for joining us. I've been Hank Green. I've been sairy Riley. I've Been Stephan Chin and I've been sampled retention is a CO production of complexly wonderful team at WNYC studios it's by all of us and produced by Caitlin Hofmeister. And Sam Shelton who is also our editor. Our editorial assistant is the book Chucker. Verdy are sound design by Joseph to Name Mesh are beautiful logo is by Hiroko Matsumshima. And we couldn't make any of this without our patrons unpatriotic thank you and the mind is not a vessel to be filled but a fire to be light but one more thing if you're a medical student in the UK in two thousand sixteen and you needed to practice performing rectal exams. Your pickings were pretty slim. In fact there's only one person in the whole country signed up to allow Med students to perform practice exams on them. Which seems like kind of a problem. I mean it seems like it would either be zero or more than one. Just one. So team at Imperial College London. Got To work inventing a robot ass. The results looked like a disembodied but filled with little pistons and robot arm surrounding Silicon Tube Rectum and they could the Pistons and arms with squeeze to provide different amounts of pressure to simulate rectums of all different shapes and sizes. And it can also simulate different diseases and complications of the prostate. So you just have robot but you can dig around in now.
"Die Toten von Marnow" und "Beforeigners" als Gratis-Angebot
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GSMC SciFi Podcast Episode 215: 10/10 Fall of Hyperion
"Golden state media concepts side. PODCAST! Together we dive into the world. Scifi science fiction from episodes of Star Trek's Dr. Wars to the. Resident in all the. Science fiction movie from the Bachelor Marvel or DC. Five cats you'll never get side stations the same way again. Awesome. Sunday Sunday Sunday. GMC Sifi, podcast brought to you by the GS MC podcast network. I am your host. Keith and today is Sunday. Which means it's Iberian, day, technically we're in the fall of Hyperion, which is the second book of the hyperion series and we're gonNA. Try to go through ten chapters today question mark. because. Five chapters didn't feel quite enough for discussion, and like intervals a five apparently But I if I'm being honest, will probably go back to five because ten chapters is just way too much material to try to remember for the entirety of. The week I did listen to the first five years be twenty one through twenty, five earlier this week, and then twenty six through thirty yesterday, but unfortunately twenty six through thirty are much more fresh on my mind than. Twenty, through twenty five, but We'll get around to everything eventually. As is pretty usual for the PODCASTS. I do, we'll talk about it later and then nine times out of ten I probably like six times out of ten. We talk about it But. Also to say. So this week starting out in Chapter Twenty One Well, I guess we could start out I. Don't know. Braun and Martin Salinas have arrived at. The city of the dead poet's. Salinas has decided to stay explore the city in order to find some supplies, but really he is just hoping to write the rest of his poems and Braun. Lamia has decided that she's going to go onto the keep in order to get supplies that she can bring back to the rest of the pilgrims. We actually don't get much from seven actually I don't think there was a single chapter with Severin in these ten chapters, which was super surprising because we haven't heard much from him for a while he apparently has been asleep I. Dunno time in this novel. Things that gets messed with and like there's even the the book starting. The narrative is starting to be twisted by time on, and like we're starting to get alternative viewpoints and perspectives. Of the same story in in multiple different ways which I find to be super interesting. But regardless the chapter. I want to say Chapter Twenty One We get a resolution or at least a little bit of a resolution when it comes to sign innocent Lamy up so salinas, having decided to stay in the city of poets is writing his poem and absent, mindedly doing so he's kind of like letting his muse if you will take him, and his muses the strike. Funny phrasing actually Keith. So as he's writing, he's just kind of like absorbing things and remembering the way that the world was prior to the strike, appearing on hyperion prior to. I guess silence interactions with the strike, and all of a sudden out of nowhere shrike appears which we're finally getting regular occurrences of the strike which makes. Pretty happy because I think the strike is one of the coolest parts of this book because it's just like so. Like just almost completely impossible to understand just because it doesn't really make sense, but I think that's kind of like. The point of the shrike in a way is that he's not supposed to make sense. So. The strike appears and silent is freaking out, and it's like no go away. I need to finish this poem and he realizes the apparently wrote. It is time. On his poem. Which is funny? Because time is such, a big theme and the reason I mentioned so much of this is because there's this plot that goes from the first book into this one where they mentioned multiple times that silences the one who's like dictating reality for the shrike in some capacity, like he is almost the one who is the keeper of the Shrike Which? Is An interesting concept for sure I wouldn't be surprised if there's like some explanation to this as like you know, saintliness is the last guy from original earth through still alive, because you'd have to be like seven hundred years old, so he's the last one, so he has special powers over the strike or something. I have no idea. I wouldn't be surprised if. If Simmons goes to like some something about like. I duNNo. Intangible power that comes from like different planets and things like that. At this point I feel like even if he did that, it would be interesting. He's just handled everything so flawlessly that I have a really hard time critiquing anything that it is that he wants to do in this book, so that's a possibility, but regardless He wrote down at his time and then he. wrote down and starts writing again and realizes that he wrote. It's time to go so. I, think that like maybe silences conflict with the shrike and the reality around him like him, saying explicitly to Braun Lamy like I didn't have a plan where I came here. I was just GonNa. Come here, finish my palm. Go home. And you know he kind of had this feeling that he's like immortal on some capacity, and I feel like Selena's really does represent like the more negative aspects of people who right of authors. There is this kind of like perception. As a someone who writes that like some aspect of you is immortal And immortality seems to be a pretty heavy theme in this book so. As an author myself there's this kind of like drive that a lot of authors who I've talked to share with me. That, they're part of the reason that they write is because it represents like some aspect of them existing in perpetuity. And in the same way that ultimately. The. Cora revived constantly as long as you like, aren't. Faced with your immediate death. There is kind of this like odd sense of like. I guess what's the word? I'm looking for precisely You put up this particular kind of masquerade where you feel like there are certain things that you have to do in order to achieve other things, and you kind of just like constantly. Put off the final like you put off. The reality of what is that you're trying to do with your art so like. Simmons mentions explicitly that sad king billy is the first book sacking. Billy could tell that Salinas his work was heavily edited, and there were large swaths of it that were removed prior to publishing. For the first book that he wrote which was I think on new earth or something like that? He was forced, not force. He was coerced the money to write like twenty other new Earth novels, but the first one is the one that like really kind of interesting, and also he. It was. It's sold like a lot of copies. In the first book there's this mention of. The pilgrim's progress phenomenon where it's like everybody bought it but nobody read it and Salinas. Produces his his contests that he puts out later or his poems about Heaven's gate the he you know He. Developed while he was on Heaven's Gate, I wanna say wrote because he was missing language. for a few choice words, which cannot be repeated on this podcast, because it is a PG podcast, but there's just kind of this idea that he's putting things off, and then like he writes this these poems that are really really truly sincere to him, and like they're so powerful that they make the woman whose the editor weep which is interesting. We actually got to see the editor again. which I thought was fascinating. Simmons candidate seems to be throwing him these little cameos of individuals from. The first book like we've also met. The professor! Who Was Rachel Weintraub Lover? Emilio, his name. We've also met him. A couple of times interact with him a couple of times, which was interesting and fun. Simmons has this really does a really good job with like sticking. Little Nuggets in this book to make you feel like. Oh, I'm acknowledged like Simmons's acknowledging that I've read the first book which is Nice. It feels good to be affirmed by the Guy who's story that you're reading and falling in love with slowly or quickly. But back to the topic at hand. There's this general perception by authors. Oh all get to do this thing. That's really true to who I am after I finish this other thing that's not because this other thing that's not is going to open doorway for me. And saintliness has gone through all of that, and then ultimately tries to right the thing that he wanted to write, and then it flops. That he's been kind of forced to write more of what it is that he didn't WanNa right. And so then it gets put off and it seems kind of like Salinas. His death in general has been something that he's feared and has put off for the entirety of his existence in a way. That's more meaningful than the other characters seven is a struggle kind of like. Very. Emblematic might be a good word for it. I guess of the wool character when it comes to like 'cause. The first book's based off of Jeff Joffe Schlossers. The Canterbury Tales and I. Don't know that there is an octave of the fool, but like generally when you're looking at fables, and all those types of things are usually is like. A Seder or on a Diane. dyonisis deny. the god of wine and hedonism from Greek, mythology the, and there's usually like a fool who kind of like serves only his own purposes, and ultimately becomes the victim of his own folly, and so because saintliness. Is has a net unnaturally elongated his life, and has like constantly prolonged the fact that he's going to have to face death. At some point, it seems oddly fitting that he suffers death at the hands of the strike in a very specific way so in the first book. Assad says that he had a vision where he saw the shreiks tree, and the shreiks tree. Is this giant tree of Thorns? That's like. At three hundred meters thick at its base, so it's like a thousand feet thick. It's a huge huge gigantic tree that's like tall, and may it looks to be made of metal, and then the branches are all like thorns, basically like metallic thorns and W-. Kazan says that he and his vision saw people who were on the pilgrimage on the tree, which I find to be interesting, because part of my period is the fact that it's unpredictable, but like Casado, get to experience the future of Appearin, also the past I don't know. Times confusing this novel. And he said the wouldn't tell people who were on well. Salinas is the one that he saw on it, so the people who are on this tree. Are Still Alive. But they are impaled and like stuck on the tree, basically the in a similar fashion to like how father. d'auray self crucified on the Tesla Coil Tree, they're kind of in there doing the same thing happen to them where they're just in perpetual pain for all of eternity, and that is kind of fitting with. The way in which The shrike is portrayed because he is called the Lord of pain by numerous individuals, especially those within the the strike church. and. I you know in this capacity I'm kind of struggling with what exactly it is at the strike is supposed to represent in these last in these next few or the I, guess last few the chapters that I read because it seems in the past. The way that Simmons has used him as a symbol was kind of like this. This specter that was like all these floating around, and like doing all these weird, and like things that were just not discernible by human beings as having specific motives, and the truth is still kind of doing that, but it seems like the strike has become more of a specter of death in the last few chapters, which not sure how I feel about that particular representation. because. I don't. The shrike is is seems an. Inevitable in some capacity is the best way that I would describe it. And I really appreciate that Simmons kind of handles him as it rather him gosh. I Apologize. Handles the strike in a capacity where it is almost like a force of nature that is the only force of nature that remains true to nature is not able to be mastered is not able to you know, be controlled so the way in which. The strike is being portrayed. In these last few chapters is kind of befitting of that, but in some other capacities I'm not sure how I feel about it so I'm going to talk about that a little bit more after this commercial break. What to find out what movies to go, see and check out the GS AMC movie podcast. It's your ticket to the latest movies whether it's a new blockbuster, romantic comedy or action flick. This show has got it all covered. They talk some what to go. See now. Don't bother. What's hot on Netflix's and everything in between that GSM see podcasts dot com back slash movie dash podcast when it's all about the movies. It has to be this new show. Don't forget to like on facebook and follow them on twitter visit GMC podcast. Dot Com for more INFO. Served. Spent. I was talking about the new ways in which the shrike is being portrayed in the things that we're learning about it as An individual entity I've mentioned this several times before. Where I've said? That's an redundant statement. I've mentioned this several times before. That I think that. The strike is kind of a monkey's paw in some capacity. In that. It gives you what it is that you're looking for, but with a terrible catch. and. I think that's kind of. Kind of true, but I also think that it gives you the truth of what it is that you want. And I think that the reason that I'm feeling that way. About its representation is because. Ultimately. The majority of what it is that human beings want causes pain to other things. And they do so out of. Ignorance and not understanding the full picture of things, and that is why, like in a lot of religions, God is viewed as existing outside of time, because in order to understand the true ramifications of all of creation didn't mean there I'm there. You would have to exist at a time to be able to see the end of things as well as the beginning of things and watch them unfold accordingly. So the fact that the strike has access to the end of things, and also the beginning of things. It implies that like their implies godliness, and on that note I. Kind of wanted to make mention of the time tombs because they are moving backwards in time. Which means that at some point they were created in the future. But at what point is that future? Going to be actualized, or at what point do you reach the end of the time tombs? I wouldn't be surprised if that is kind of like what this novel ends up being about because it is titled The fall of Hyperion. which in doing some research, the title of Keats. Poem is not hyperion Cantos. Hyperion Cantos were incomplete. Riding, them couldn't complete them. Just because he got distracted by other things, I believe his wife Fanny passed away. Fiancee, fanny, or whatever status relationship they had passed away during that time, and so he got distracted, or he fell in love with her one of the to. The fall of hyperion is a poem that is finished that. Keats wrote which I have not read though it would probably be beneficial for me to do so. Because of. Reading these books so I will probably do that at some point in the near future, if not literally between segments. Today but regardless of that. Moving on from SELENA's moving on from the strike. There's a lot more the happened in these last ten chapters, so at the end of Chapter Twenty I had mentioned that the ousters had invaded the. Hegemony. It places that the hegemony wasn't expecting and what the ousters did was send their ships in on like. Sub Hawking travel which I think is basically like sub light speed travel. Because they're hawking. Engines are traceable by like standard. Sensor arrays at the hegemony possessing that the the technique core possess. And the. But the ousters went sub light speed, and apparently it took the ships like fifty years reach the different places in the hegemony that they are targeting which I find to be like absolutely fascinating, because fifty years would be even prior to when the council was sent by gladstone to betray both the hegemony and the ousters. The the council he's in. He's an interesting character. In his purposes are hit. The purposes of his actions are interesting because it seems like he's kind of almost not even really. kind of almost not even really. Wow, it's a lot of. Yeah, it seems like he isn't really an active agent. Simply because everything that he does is planned out for him, and his behavior is so predictable that gladstone could send him to the ousters, knowing that he would betray the hegemony, but also knowing that he would betray the ousters as well. Which I find to be very very interesting, but gladstone finally gets to talk about what's happening in the hegemony and what we find out is that all of the government members are really scared. Gee, I wonder why. The ousters have hit hegemony space, and they are within planet fall relatively quickly. and. Because of this, the hegemony needs to redirect its troops. While if you remember from last week, they directed all of their forces to. Win. So now they're kind of up a creek without a paddle. So, there's this kind of discussion and obviously I would assume that. Simmons is making some sort of commentary on government systems, and what have you and the obligation that individuals have representing different people on planets. I'm sure that he is I. Don't think it's as important to the overall to other Meta narratives within the book. There's some senators who say like. I'm going to go back to the planet that I work at. but the big thing that comes out of all of this is that gladstone kind of figures out that the techno core has been intentionally lying to the hegemony. About the number of things that they can predict. But also the number of things that they have predicted. So if I had to guess, the technology core exists in this space of constant bluffing. To the hegemony and the reason. I say that is because after all the war has done. gladstone selects justice. Few Senators, a few individuals to go with her to her private like meeting room I guess and. Discuss further with them, the plan of action. And one of those individuals is the representative from the technical. Who is a Hologram? And, she basically says to him that like we're not declaring war on just the ousters word like the technical doesn't like. Provide good reason where declaring war on the technical core, or she may have even just outright declared war on the technical core, and the representative doesn't argue he just leaves, and there's the implication that's made by another individual that because he leaves the Techno Korea is scared because there is some sort of nefarious plot being enacted by them. In order to. Acquire power or to eliminate humans or to reach the next step in their evolution. Now we is the reader know that there is a new earth that is indeed being made by the technical. But I don't believe that it is knowledge. For the other members of the hegemony hegemony government that is occurring. It's speculation. And rumor, but Johnny has informed Braun Lamia that it is indeed happening, and that there is a division amongst the three different factions of the technical as to how most effectively they should be executing the construction of new earth. Now, my guess is that. There's something technical trying to prove in their own existence. That we will find out later. But I'm not totally sure exactly what what's going to pan out from there, but I do find it interesting that it seems like All of these individuals who are interacting with each other in all these different capacities all seem to have their own set of plans. And it seems like the only people. That have any kind of success are the ones that are just passive agents of other individuals plans so like the console for instance, lot of success hasn't died in the book yet, but also doesn't seem to have his own Mac nations his own neck. Nations are part of the predictions of his behavior of other individuals and other things. The same thing kind of goes for Bron- Lania now that situation is going to change and I. Don't worry. We'll beginning to that, and what happens to her is very important. But. She also has experienced a lot of success in not a lot of tragedy on the pilgrimage, compared to other individuals who we've seen experienced tragedy so far. And then of course. John John Severin who kind of exists in this in world in the same way that the console does in between world of like being part of the technical for being like Gladstone's confidante and advisor capacities because he is the Rian. reincarnated. Reconstituted John Keats Persona. So. He has kind of like his toes, and both sides of the water, but he is not at this meeting, which is surprising, because gladstone has wanted him at every meeting, and she's explicitly said so so I find that to be of course very interesting, but we do She does fetch him towards the end of these chapters twenty twenty, one through thirty I'm. She does send for him in order to have him. Come like I. Don't know talk with her about what's going on. What we find out. Is that the the officer who spoke out? Against the plan to send all of the ships. Is. He was of course He was punished by the system because the other generals really wanted to be able to seize control of the military in some capacity, and like send everything appearing because I felt like that was the only way they're gonNA win. hyperion period seem super important, but it almost seems like hyperion isn't really important at all. and people have just been tricked into thinking. It's important by other individuals within power, which I wouldn't be surprised if that was ultimately what the technical core had done, which was to be like Oh. Yeah, we can predict everything except for the things that come along with hyperion, which is everything because chaos theory question Mark I'm having a hard time pinning down and exact philosophy that. That Simmons is kind of trying to portray her advocate for because there is so much like need. She is a little bit of like governance. Mills in there, and there's like a lot of commentary on humans and ethics. Of course you've got and then I mentioned last week on this idea of Fuko. Actually I mentioned him last week in the wind in Wednesday's podcast and we talked about the movie that I watched but I think that I've mentioned him in. Regards to period as well I'm sure that you will come up if he hasn't already but it seems to me like there is this kind of interesting link between the expansion of scientific knowledge and the understanding of the universe and the understanding of what God could look like that. Simmons is trying to get at through the way that he's writing this novel, which I really enjoy, but to me what it seems like is that for the technoport? Say Like we can't predict things because I. Period represents an unpredictable variable. Hype Ian is intrinsically involved with everything because it is a part of everything. And I. Think that part of what Simmons is trying to portray in the way that. Humans have interacted with the universe in hyperion in the way that individuals interact with each other. Is that everything? Touches everything else in some capacity and now I. Know What you're GonNa. Say. That's a self fulfilling analysis. A but I think that he's doing it in a way. That's more intentional than other authors might do. Because I think he's trying to make commentary on the fact that that is what authors do when someone is writing a book they'll. There's this mechanic mechanic storytelling mechanic I. Don't know exactly what I would want to call it, but it's basically it's called Chekhov's gun where it's like something. Seemingly benign occurs within a certain part of the novel that is ignored by the main character or not acknowledged enough by the main character. It represents a form of foreshadowing, but in the way that it's GonNa. Come back to bite the main character. In the but In a way that kind of derails the story or Causes them to plunge into rock bottom hit the deer of their hero's journey of you will. which just as a quick aside I want to mention that it doesn't really feel like there isn't a hero's journey in this book, and I absolutely adore that that seemed like there were like little mini, heroes journeys with all of the individual pilgrims stories during the first novel, but during the second novel, it really doesn't feel like. There's any discernible like singular narrative to be followed and a lot of the individuals who are in this book aren't really worthy of being considered heroes in the first place. But that's neither here, nor there so. I think that Simmons is intentionally trying to say that. We attempt to categorize the world into a series of occurrences that add up to an overall situation or an overall conclusion that can ultimately be predicted, and the technical core has sold this idea to humans because it is appealing. And that is more commentary on this idea of immortality. Where have you know the end then? Why would you act outside of a way in which you can't act in a way that? Is. Indicative of the fact that you don't know the end like the knowledge that is present in this in this book, that kind of represents the alien thing is the unknown, but it's in a way that's more meaningful than just saying like. Oh, the only thing is unknown. No like the alien is the act of not knowing. And so individuals who acknowledged that there is no knowing. Are The aliens in some capacity in this book at least in my opinion, so we're GonNa talk more about that right after this next quick commercial break. Tiredness, searching the vast jungle of podcasts now listen close and here this out. There's a podcast network that covers just about everything that you've been searching. The Golden State Media Concept podcast network. is here nothing less than podcast lists with endless? Of podcast Harvard's. From News sports music fashion. A fantasy football, and so much more so stop lurking around and go straight out to the golden state media concepts podcast network guaranteed to build that podcast is. Whatever it may be, visit us at www dot gs, MC podcast dot com follow us on facebook, twitter and download on Itunes, soundcloud and Google play. Doesn't. Spots. KPCC. Thanks for? HANGING OUT CHATTAN Those is really one conversation. Sometimes, which had host or co host rather I used your podcast with a co host Check out the backlog of the music in the movie podcasts. Between November and. March I was co hosting with. Another. GMC podcasts hostess Cynthia she does She at least last time I checked she did health and wellness and a couple of others so. Yeah, as those were very enjoyable, the do regardless Co host would be someone to bounce ideas off of and have more of a discussion with whereas now I just feel sometimes I feel like I'm just talking at people, but hey, if you're listening, it means like it when I talk at you so cool, thank you. Regardless I had kind of gotten to. A little bit of what it was. I was what it was I was man I am just full of bad badly or poorly structured sentences today, and for that I truly apologize. Back to the topic at hand. I was talking about. The thing that I feel is kind of the alien in the story and I was going over this idea of the act of not knowing being alien and the reason that I'm saying that this is the alien thing is because the presence of knowledge seems to be incredibly abundant in this novel. Between, what is that? Gladstone believes that she knows what the technical believes it that it knows, or at least what it tells us that we are what it has been told to us that we believe it knows. What the individuals who on pilgrimage believed that they now all of those things are. Kind of toying with what is the limitation of knowledge and the fact that this book is a science fiction book rather than just like. A. Typical fantasy book or something like that to me says that there is. Kind of just like this general acknowledgement by Simmons of the fact, that knowledge is limited, and the book necessitated being set it set in the science fiction world of the future, because in order for him to make his point, there needed to be an abundance of knowledge. Juxtaposed by the. Inability for there to be complete knowledge. which is part of the reason why I think that these books make such heavy commentary on religious ideas because. In religion. There's this idea that there's a god that knows all things and that. There's this constant. Juxtaposition of like who makes God. And what happens after God is made in the thing that air what happens after? God has made something. If God exists what happens after God makes something in. That thing evolves past where that God exists so. That is just been kind of like constantly present. And I would. Not Be surprised to figure out at the end of this that ultimately God Simmons believes that there is a god or force that exists that cannot be surpassed because ultimately. Even at its core is lacking, and for Simmons to basically critique, the entirety of the scientific method and our discourse and rhetoric as human beings would be completely. Part would be totally par for the course for him. it seems like he's been able to with a lot of profundity. Get inaccuracy for that matter. Get at a lot of the things that we as human beings struggled to understand or wrestle with, and so the fact that he would actively be able to critique. or not necessarily wrestle with ipod. I Miss Miss phrased that He gets at things that humans do that are so subtle and so. Kind of assumed that it's virtually impossible for us to deny their existence when they're put right in front of our face, but the because they're so subtle and so assumed we always. Kind of let them slide. I guess for lack of another word. But that's neither here, nor there we have ten more chapters to get through five more chapters to get through at least. So the next person who I Kinda WanNa talk about is Braun Lamia. And then we'll probably talk about Assad afterwards, because some important things are happening with him, and men. Weller Murrieta I can never remember her name I don't know why it's funny. I. Listen to the book, and I'm like remember her name, and then I get to the podcast and I'm like I. Don't remember her name. So. Brian Lamia Goes to the keep gets there. Comes back to the time tombs. After this long arduous journey. And is met by the shrike. WHO proceeds to. Not Kill her, but attach some sort of cord to the back of her head. That leads into the floor of the Sphinx. And connects her to the data sphere. But what doesn't make any sense to me at all is what in the world is the shrike have to do with the data sphere? That in itself is a fascinating thought. I wouldn't be surprised if the technical in the future created a time traveling robot that. is able to move backwards in time and control the flow of time, and that's the next stage of evolution. And that the strike is like. The. Next agent evolution that would be interesting, not totally sure. because you know the shrike exists in perpetuity into the future, but also in perpetuity into the past as do the time tombs, supposedly they have no beginning, no end because of their aging backwards, and we haven't hit the end then. There's no perceivable end because they haven't been able to predict it though it seems like everything. They think that they can predict in this novel. They ultimately end up not being able to predict. Regardless Bron Lamia. We think that she's dead because it sounds like the shrike has stabbed her in the back of the skull with its razor fingers, but we find her later via d'auray. the console and Weintraub. And, she then we get a chapter with her. In the data's fear kind of describing what's happening. She is with Jani. Jani is talking about his connection to the new keats persona sovereign. And they're kind of going over the idea of like life and death and like. The experience that she has of this like pure data, pure being is described very spiritually which I find to be interesting. As I do most things in this book. We don't get a ton of information from her other than the experience that she has with with Johnny. And I necessarily mark that as being the most important part of these few chapters and I really WanNa talk more about what happening with Assad and Gerais, and why trump at the end of the going to talk about the console next, so the console upon finding Lamia along with Weintraub. He and Weintraub Fine Lamia while to raise back in the cave with Hetman Steen, who has still not woken up yet? At least at this point. Hint hint I suppose. They find her and they are the ones who find that she's been attached to the floor, and the bottom of the thinks the console follows this cable. She's on the steps. The council falls US cable up to the Sphinx all the way down through all these treasures patch passages that are constantly changing because the time tombs are aging backwards at a rate that is undiscernible and so. He. To the end of it realizes that it's like you know doesn't have an end, it just goes into the floor and he can't follow. It anymore turns around. You think you might hear the Shrike, not totally sure. And then. Comes back out starts having a conversation with well. How are we going to detach her from this? Because she is alive completely, except for totally brain, dead while I think that's because brain has been put into the data sphere, which is funny that it would be her brain because. She's the one who has had the least interaction with all of the technologies of the future aside from Maybe Weintraub or d'auray but during her story, Simmons makes explicit mention of the fact that she doesn't have any augmentation, NHS and the only thing that she really has his a neural shunt and she doesn't use a lot of technology in the same way that the console doesn't. So the console reveals that he has the, Hawking met the Hawking Matt from his story in the first novel, and he in disarray and Weintrob are discussing. What should be done? Now the consoles weapon that he brought to fight against the strike was his ship and. Gladstone is having quarantined in Keats. which is a problem because the ship has a bunch of medical systems, it's it's a beautiful ship. It's incredible and it has all these futuristic technologies which supposedly really be able to help, and so everyone has been asking the council to go. Get it or call it to him. Because supposedly he has a fat COM tron transmitter that would allow him to. Bypass the Anti intro pick fields and get a signal through, so the ship would come to him because this encoded to follow him wherever he goes according to his for it, but because it is currently quarantined. He can't do that. So He. Duran, Weintraub, have this I guess I wouldn't call it long discussion necessarily about whether or not about who should go to get the ship. The console proposes that they draw lots. And then. Weintraub is the only other one at this time, and he looks at him, and he basically says look. We know that you're the only one who can go because d'auray is old and feeble and. Can't travel very well. Just because of the cruise to form and the pain associated with that though that hasn't been mentioned so I'm curious about what's happening there. And then Weintrob refuses to leave the time tombs because his daughter is less than two days old and Rachel Weintraub seems to be becoming. Like the the quasi. Ipso facto center of this story at this point because. She is kind of like. The last determining factor of the pilgrimage that they have to like fight for because it seems like everything else. That's happening is outside of their own power, so it seems kind of to me as if Rachel Weintraub kind of represents the last. The last vestiges of Ability for them to act on the world around them and so everybody including. Brian Lamia Father Diriye, even course Weintrob and the console are very concerned with the fact that her life. Supposedly is going to come to an end and the next two days. So the console decides that he's going to go fly the Hawking Matt back to Keats to free his ship and. Come back and rescue save the day I. Don't know but so we get this nice little I guess reverse pilgrimage where. The we get to watch the console. Go backwards. Landmarks and things that we've already seen which. I found to be a little bit like it was enjoyable on the console. Kinda muses about like the way that things happened on Maui Covenant He. Falls Asleep always flying the hawking met and gets lost, which is very inconvenient of course, but since when is anything in Simmons novel? Gone according to plan, quote unquote. Though I guess if everything went according to plan, there wouldn't be much of a novel now, would there? So. Console is flying back to. Keats falls asleep while he's flying over the Sea of grass. And then eventually is able to. He gets lost because he falls asleep is able to find the river. And then pretty much as soon as he finds the river, the hocking net battery decides to die and he. Plummets into the river below, and that is where chapter thirty ends. Now I know yeah, you missed a bunch of other stuff. Don't worry. There's still one more segment guys I'm GonNa Talk About Casado I'm GonNa talk about what's happening with Weintrob and array while the consoles con-. Don't worry about it but what's interesting between the console and brought Lamia. Is that Simmons Rights essentially the same chapter, but from the two different viewpoints of those individuals and I wouldn't be surprised to see a lot of those kinds of things happening as this book continues on, I think part of what Simmons is going to try to do is play with our perception of time. Within the novel, because within the novel, we create our own narrative of understanding. And he wants to emphasize the experiences of the characters and their inability to understand how it is that time is passing or what is going on. Around them in order for him to most effectively do that, he has to alter our perception as well so that we can further empathize so I'm really interested to see how he's going to handle that particular storytelling mechanic, but we're going to take one more quick. Break here after that I will talk about Casado. d'auray Weintraub have an interesting conversation as well so stick around. We'll be right back. TV has changed over time. Streaming has become the new norm. That's why golden state media concepts television podcast dives headfirst to the world of cord, cutting to be on the lube of what's hot and Netflix, or if it's not a preference, what about original shows in Hulu we've got you covered. Join us as we filmed the black and talk about movies, two streep, and what show you should be? This is a golden state media concepts television podcast. Look. picked. The last segment of the podcast. I'm excited about that and should be bombed. The podcast is ending. I'm so sad. Right before the break I was just kinda talking a little bit about What's happened with Brown Lamia the data's fear the console, and the fact that he fell into a river and a bunch of other stuff There were ten chapters that I listened to. So there was a lot of story to talk about and not as much hypothetical so. So next week we will probably be going back to just five chapters I. Feel like it gives me a little bit more of an opportunity to talk about like what could becoming up make some predictions do some conjecture. You know the fun stuff about all this not that this isn't fun in some capacity, but I really wanted to talk about. At least for last I suppose what is going on with Casado and Manuela Morada who's. Female character whose name I can't remember. Towards the end of these chapters, because I think that Casado is GonNa play a pretty major role in a lot of the conflict. That's coming up. And I'm not entirely sure. Why does that Simmons selected him as the vessel? For that particular part of the story, but I guess we will have to wait and see and find out why so Casado is currently time traveling. Question Mark. So the last time that we saw Assad, he was stepping through a portal with. Murata. For the rest of the podcast. And that was it. We didn't get anything else so of course When we finally got to see what I was super excited so they come out of the portal. I can't remember exactly where they go I. Think the couple of different places, but Miranda reveals to Casado that she is like the keeper of the Shrike in some capacity, not like a baby sitter, necessarily or a controller of the shrike. I think that the strike may have been somehow imprisoned by Martin. Salinas in some capacity I have no idea how or if that's even realistic, or the strike is even capable of something that is capable of being imprisoned, but regardless I think that somehow Martin Salinas said some sort of control over it. But. Kazadi finds out that. The shrike can be controlled by whoever beats it in one on one combat or I guess hand to hand combat would be. The better way to phrase it. So. Casado decides that he's GonNa do that. He's GonNa. beat the strike. In combat, which doesn't make any sense to me. because the shrike is kind of. It's like God. But He finds this out, and then they end up after they visit the couple of different places with the portal that Moretto the poor tolls that Moroccan open. They end up back on hyperion. And the. Then, Casado says you know I'm GonNa Challenge the strike I do challenge the strike to combat, and the shrike decides to pretty much immediately respond and by immediately respond. I mean literally shows up right behind cod and Casado reflects on the fact that he brought just a death. Want to try and kill this thing at first and realizes how woefully inadequate that would be. And proceeds to get ready to engage with the shrinking combat, which of course you know, Simmons does not give us that chapter just yet. But as he goes to engage with the strike in combat, it multiplies into thousands and thousands and thousands of strikes and I don't think that there is more than one strike I just think that it can make itself appear as if it's existing simultaneously throughout all of time I feels like the shrike and some capacities is like this is what it would be like to interact with a god. because. That's just. Yeah God you know President Omnipotent all those things, so it would mean that like God could exist in every instance, or on in all instances at the same time as a multitude of different things I just. It feels like part of the point of the strike for Simmons is to explore as many out there theological ideas as possible, and put them into the embodiment of one thing, which is very similar to how a lot of Christians view Jesus in the embodiment. Of all religious principles in one particular individual, so that will probably come up at some point I am Sherp. That's really all we get from CASSAT now. The really really interesting part about these ten chapters in my opinion comes from Headmaster seen. Mass. Is The templar who went missing off of the ship in the first book who was presumed dead, because there was a bunch of blood in the. in his room and he was gone. So you know naturally? People would assume that he was dead some normal thing to assume after that type of interaction. and. He randomly appears at the time tombs and passes out and has not woken up since the since weintrob fathered. And the console whose name we still don't have found him, and so he's dying for some unknown reason, because a lot of his his vitals. Check out as normal, but he's got this weird illness. That's happening. And so. They can leave him in the cave. The checkup up on Lamia, and they come back. The console decides to leave on the Flying Hawking Mat. And so after he leaves father. Diriye and Weintraub begin to have this conversation about the recurring dream that Weintrob had. That is basically just him repeating. The dream that your guard had I think I think God had a nightmare, and that was what inspired the book, fear and trembling. Or the fear and trembling. What it would be qualified as but basically fear, and trembling is an entire system of like feel, Lodge, or theology and morality based off of the idea of. The fact that you know there's no way that God could be good and ask a human being to sacrifice their only son, and it is okay. That God is not good in all capacities, and that is what Kirkegaard basically says in that that essay there warming that is the super, super, super abridged version, much more complexity. Is it teleological suspension of morality. I is what it's called. The super fancy philosophy words for it. You don't need to know them. All that to say. Weintraub has a very similar dream There's a reason why trump is Jewish in this novel, and I think it is supposed to contrast the Catholic or Protestant type belief structure that. Cure Guard was approaching that scenario with And so trump has had this recurring dream. That's very similar where someone is telling him that he needs to take one and only daughter to hyperion, and sacrifice her and be willing to let her go. and. Weintrob is of the belief that they have surpassed God enough capacities to where they no longer need to make offerings to it. And let like that God needs to begin to accept a different type of. Human beings and I think it's interesting that Weintraub and they are currently in the cave. Because d'auray is the one who proposed that perhaps God was being that evolved alongside its creation. And that was part of why he was not necessarily looked upon favorably by the majority of his fellows. At the. I Guess Church that he worked at. I don't know he was at university. Christian! University, protestantism, or what have you so? They have this conversation that I think is pretty interesting and obviously I think Simmons is trying to say that like. He's not okay with the teleological suspension of morality or of ethics or something like that, which is basically just to say that he's not okay with the idea of God. That doesn't have to be all good. or at least Weintraub isn't okay with that. Which is why the shrike couldn't possibly be? A God to him, but then he's talking to array. Who basically like? died a million deaths over and over and over and over again while begging for sweet release, and then is now after having died is still not freaking dead, so it's interesting. That weintraub would be the one to bring this up to him as if there was something of value that could occur between the two of them because it feels like. Wine trump is saying we shouldn't have to offer our bodies to got anymore and. d'auray would say. Something similar, but mainly because I already tried that, so I'm not entirely sure where this dynamic is going to go, but it does get interrupted by head Mystique Waking Up, and this is probably one of the more interesting aspects of the novel that I think is like it's of course foreshadowing. If it doesn't happen, it'd be super surprised. Hetman Dean. Wakes up from the middle of fevered sleep. Sits up and starts talking about how he is supposed to be the truth speaker of the tree of pain, so the strikes tree. Is supposed to be he's. He believes himself to have been chosen to pilot. which to me implies that the strikes tree is just like the tree drizzle. the one true tree I think what it's called. I can't remember exactly. It's the one tree eater, so it's. It's a seed ship. It's a very important seed ship to the tempering. Guessing it was, it got destroyed the night that mystique went missing and mass had like Tele Kinetic connection to that tree, so it's unsurprising that he lost his mind and passed out, and then ended up in the middle of the desert, and hasn't woken up sense and then when he wakes up. He's saying I should have been to. I'm supposed to be what I was to the resell I'm supposed to be that same thing to the shreiks tree, and he starts calling the strike, the Lord of pain, and quoting from the theology of the Shrike Church, and this definitely is while I. Don't know if I'd say definitely is disconcerting. It's disconcerting to Diriye and. Weintraub? And after saying it. Dies which such a bummer because I. still want to hear his story as to why he was on the pilgrimage, but we did kind of get like that explanation. I'm sure maybe we'll get something from somewhere else. I'm not totally sure, but. he is supposed to pilot the tree. And if the tree can fly, then that means that the shrike isn't confined to appear in any longer. if ever was even. Confined to hyperion. And there's been implication. That certain things are occurring before the shrike is released. And Gladstone is the one who said that. Has Not yet been released, and so the implication there might be. Gladstone is from the future. It might be that she believes that it can be released. It might be a number of different things but overall. The idea that the this novel series is GonNa. Take us off of hyperion and still involve. The strike is exciting for me because there are other character swim interested in figuring more. Figuring out more about. And I am interested in seeing. What is it? The strike is capable of as far as like destructive powers concerned because we already know that it basically has control over time, which means that. Even something as simple as. Flick of a finger or like a punch can, if it moves through time quickly enough it the amount of motion that it takes in like with physics makes like that lethal so. Interesting Casado experienced just a fraction of that power when he was. When he was having his vision. When he was telling. His story. So. That pretty much covers it for the ten chapters like I, said. There's a lot there and I really don't think that I was able to cover. It all wanted to mention that the officers are invading all of the planets that was gladstone visited. So I wouldn't be surprised if there was like. If, the techno corps was two timing the hegemony and giving the ousters information about the whereabouts of the C O because they believe the CEO might be able to have some sort of influence on the overall outcome of everything in the end. But, I just wanted to mention that as more reason for us to be suspicious of the techno core. There's a lot of things coming to ahead. This book is I. Think Barely even halfway done, so we will definitely be talking about it for a at least the next couple of not the next few weeks. Depending on how long each chapter is so come back next week for chapters thirty, one thousand, thirty five. If you like the podcast subscribe, you definitely won't miss any episodes. We're GONNA talk about Hyperion, every Sunday for sure maybe Wednesdays just depends, but definitely be checking back regularly and like I, said. If you follow us on Facebook, US on twitter. Give us a good review. All those things and you'll probably be getting updates as to win the podcast episodes come out so. Thank you for joining me this week, everybody. Happy Fourth of July I. Suppose since that's coming up, be safe out there. Make sure you support your local firework stands, and then be responsible with the fireworks. You know all that good stuff. so thanks again. Everybody have a good day. Or night. Or whenever you're listening to this. You've been listening to the golden state media concepts Sifi podcast part of the golden state media concepts podcast network. You could find this show and others like it at www dot g MC podcast dot com download our podcast on to stitcher soundcloud, Google play just typing G. S. MC to find all the shows from the golden state media concept's podcast network from movies to music throw sports, entertainment, and even Weird News. You can also follow us on twitter and on facebook. Thank you and we hope you have enjoyed today's program.