20 Episode results for "Herb Kelleher"

Teaser: WorkLife Season 2

WorkLife with Adam Grant

03:05 min | 1 year ago

Teaser: WorkLife Season 2

"I'm Adam grant, I'm an organizational psychologist. No, don't organiz closets. And definitely can't cure your OCD. I studied how to make work not suck. And I love learning from people who are especially good at them. Like this guy. This is herb Kelleher the founder and longtime CEO Southwest Airlines. And this recording is from the floor of boxing ring. A few years ago, south west got into a legal tangle with another airline over a slogan. They shared they didn't go to court. There was no loss of. Herman is rival CEO decided to arm wrestle for the rights to the tagline. The winner. What followed was a giant arena? Smackdown that you tons of press and raise money for charity, very much, not business as usual. But herb wasn't just a guy with a good nose for flashy photo ops. He had a lot of heart. He even wants the time to call a young, nobody an unknown. Professor says a grant is a herb Kelleher Southwest Airlines. Would you please give me a call to let me know his colleague was too sick to send me a minor Email? She owed me look forward to talking to you. Herb Kelleher was living proof that you don't have to check your heart or your sense of humor at the office door. Sadly her passed away at the beginning of the year to honor his legacy this season. I'm exploring ways to make work more, creative and more fun. What if you had more of that in your work life? This is season two of work life, my podcast with Ted inviting myself inside the minds of some truly unusual people who've mastered something I wish everyone knew about work like people who excel at making connections. Even when we all know networking can be a little awkward, a friend of mine thought, she was putting abundant appetizer in her mouth only to realize that it was a piece of their art to close friends who also happen to be ferocious Olympic rivals. We finished and I hear Chalene go was hard IT's blood. And then she goes, so awesome. As like, you know, what I'm going to find out. Exactly what I made sure like an Oscar winning director who deliberately recruits disgruntled people and turns them into innovation machines. I want racing cars that are spinning their wheels in a garage rather than racing you open that garage. And man, those people take you somewhere, and we'll search for the holy grail of workplaces the office without. Tolls. There's some evidence that it's a contagious disease that spreads don't work with them. And don't work for them work life season two launches March fifth. Subscribe on apple podcasts or wherever you know, the drill. Podcast. What's the podcast?

Kelleher Southwest Airlines Herb Kelleher CEO Southwest Airlines OCD CEO Chalene Herman apple Ted Oscar Professor founder director
Remembering Herb Kelleher

How I Built This

31:27 min | 1 year ago

Remembering Herb Kelleher

"Hey, it's guy here. And by now, you may have heard that herb Kelleher the co founder of Southwest Airlines died on Thursday, her was eighty seven and in honor of her. We wanted to release this interview I did with him back in November of two thousand sixteen. It is still one of my favorite all-time episodes of how I built this because his story and the way he tells it is delightful and funny and also it truly inspiring account of sticking with an idea when the odds are stacked against you. So here it is here's to herb. And enjoy. You were basically introducing these really low fares were these airlines trying to match your prices. Yes. In some cases. They were we told the public of Texas that you could fly the lower fair. But if you paid the higher fair, we'll give you a free bottle of whiskey and so for a couple of months, we became the largest liquor distributor in the state of Texas. From NPR. It's how I built this show that innovators entrepreneurs idealists and the stories behind the movements. They go. I'm guy Roz and on today's show. How an eccentric Texas lawyer turned a crazy idea into Southwest Airlines. Now one of the biggest airlines in world. Could you could you start by introducing yourself, Mr. Keller registered herb, if you would her, please. Okay. Herb I can you just say your full name. This is herb Kelleher and your best known as the founder of Southwest Airlines. Great. How how old are you? Now. Eighty five. Okay. Great perfect. Okay. We are very excited. Talk to you about your story. I'm just going to jump in here for like to mention that before we really started our interview I had some time to just Chit chat with her. And I learned some interesting things about him like like what he eats for breakfast. Normally for breakfast. I have choose crackers and what he likes to drink while Turkey bourbon. And that he's been a smoker for pretty much his entire life. I just enjoy the magical mystical aroma and site of smoke. So how soon after you wake up? Do you have a cigarette? Well, it's a nanosecond tobacco king. With your crackers. Even before by cheese crackers for the story of how herb launched Southwest Airlines yet to go back about fifty years nineteen sixty six to be exact herb was a young lawyer. He's living in San Antonio, Texas, where he had started his own law firm, helping clients to start companies and one day one of herbs clients guy named rollin king calls him up. And he says he I heard about this airline called Pacific southwest at flies only in California. And I have an idea. Let's let's me for a drink rollin came to me with the idea of setting up a similar operation in Texas. And how soon after he sort of floated this idea to use saying? Yep. Let's do it. Let's start a company. It was a very short period of time. Maybe you know, like a minute. That fast. No it was longer than that. I was just joking, but within a very short days within days within days. Well, I I was very skeptical. But then I did some research and discovered that PSA was very successful in California that Texas supplied all the requisites for an intrastate airline because it was a big state that had large metropolitan areas far enough apart to justify flying. And so Houston, Dallas and San Antonio will the obvious first targets because they were the three largest cities in Texas. What did you know about airlines at the time? Well, I knew nothing about airlines, which I think made me imminently qualified to start one. Because what we tried to do it south west was get away from the traditional way that airlines had done business. So I started with the tabula Rasa blank slate. And I think that was very helpful. So at this point in how old are you, by the way at that point in your life? I was. Thirty five thirty five. Okay. So you had a family. Yes. Right for children for children. And you you've got this successful often by late was he was the airline industry profitable at that time. No. It was not notably profitable. As a matter of fact, Warren Buffett reportedly joked about it at one time and said if a capitalist had shot down the right brothers that Kitty Hawk in nineteen zero three the economy would probably be better off. And so it didn't have very great returns. It was constantly in difficulty. So why did you even think that this was a plausible idea? Well, I think it was the allure of doing something different doing something. That was exciting. I really always have had a great deal of curiosity. And then I thought to myself, well, you know, most the adults in the United States of America haven't been able to fly because of the cost. Barrier is too expensive is too expensive. They just thought it was business people long expensive counts. And so what I'm saying is that in terms of market analysis. There was a huge untapped market for flying out there. Okay. So you decided with rollin to start a company whose at right I actually incorporated in March of nineteen sixty seven. But of course, that was just a piece of paper, and we start to raise seed money to Dixon of about five hundred thousand dollars and said was quite a lot of money to raise. I guess it was at that time. It certainly was and we were set to go, and what was the competition like at the time. Like were there. Other airlines that were doing these Texas lifelike for like between Houston, Dallas, and these other places. Oh, yeah. They proved a beer biggest adversaries because they were not exactly warm welcoming and hospitable. And we didn't get kisses on both cheeks when we announced that we intended to create an intrastate carrier so braniff continental and transects us later, Texas international really took out after us, and they kept us involved in political fights and and fights in the. Courts, and they just thought that they would apply their incumbency and their financial strength the to bleed Southwest Airlines to death before could ever fly. So they were they were suing Southwest Airlines. Correct. I mean, what was their argument? Why were they saying you shouldn't operate? Well, you know, the arguments that they made in court for actually all kind of species, and this is one instruction of where people attempt to use to manipulate the government to prevent competition. That's what they were up to. So how long did it take you to fight these these legal challenges? Well between the time when I started working on forming south west and the time we flew our first flight it was four and a half years. Wow. It took a little pert nasty. Yeah. And during that time, the company ran out of money and in nineteen sixty nine the board of directors that a beating and talked about shutting. The airline down shutting the company down. And I said, well, how about if I lose gate for nothing and pay all the court costs out of my own pocket. Would you be willing to continue under those circumstances? And they said, oh, sure. So so what motivated you to fight for four years to to to launch this airline? Well, first of all, I was idealistic about it. Because I figured if they can prevent Southwest Airlines from introducing what Southwest Airlines proposes to provide to the consumer. Then that is a sign that the free enterprise system is failing and one of the things that motivated me was to in effect validate, the free enterprise system and another one was of course, that was very hot competition and I like to win. But what what's not like what I don't get. It was such a huge gamble anyway. Because you you could have spent those four and a half years fighting and then winning and then Southwest Airlines might have fizzled out. Anyway, I'll tell you what guy you put your finger on something because if you had taken a poll. In the state of Texas after we filed our application, I can assure you that ninety nine point nine percent of the population of the state of Texas would say this thing will never come to anything. I'm very serious about that. Several people told that they said they were cleared to see how how much the fight energize me. And that I was enjoying it. But her don't get yourself. It'll never make a dime. Did you ever get sadder? Depress me how did you? Keep your spirits up while Turkey helped. May provide. Hey guy may provide a little boost. But frankly, my spirit's just don't get down. I don't stress very easily. I'll give you an example only they had stressed glasses at Southwest Airlines years ago many years ago, and they invited me to come over and speak. You know, the fella that was running classes, and he said to the class, he said, well, you know, her undergoes a lot of stress all the time her tell the class how you handle it. And I said, I don't handle it. I like it that was the last time I was asked back to the class. So so you I mean you were going in and out of courtrooms for four years. How are you making a living at that time? Well, I was still practicing law may not doing a lot of other things during that time. What's led to very long weeks on one occasion? I was in the law this for two full days and at the end of those two full days. I've went home shaved and one to a fundraising dinner for. South west airlines. But that's kind of the the perseverance that at the mandated to help get Southwest Airlines started while still practicing law and doing many other things. So what happened in the courts with the with the south west case, it went through the United States Supreme court and through the Texas supreme court twice before we could fly and the Texas supreme court handed down an order nineteen hours. Prior to our first flight when was that that was the nineteen June of nineteen seventy-one we start flying on June eighteenth nineteen seventy-one what was the flight where did it go? The first flight want from Dallas or San Antonio. But the one that received all the publicity went from Dallas to Houston, and we were the underdog it was sort of David versus Goliath s you know, not just one but three of them. So there was a lot of news coverage about it. And that's the reason people paid a lot of attention. To it's finally getting underway. So were you on that first light, by the way? No, I wasn't. I was busy work to make sure there was a second flight. Do you? Remember that day that that I took off? And do you remember how you felt that you feel like finally this is done? Oh, it was wonderful. I'll tell you the experience I had when the first airplane game in it was over in Fort Worth Americans hanger. So I went over there nears this airplane after four and a half years. I wound up stuck my head in the back of one of the engines and mechanic, grabbed me pulled me back. And he said, you realize that frustrate I or goes off it will decapitate you. And I said at this moment, I don't give a damn. So at this point southwestern lines, what starts advertising it starts flying. Many. What was the was it flying more than one route was at flying multiple routes? Whoa. Was Dallas Houston, Houston, San Antonio and San Antonio Dallas. And what was what was the what does it cost to go to do one of those legs well on some flights? We had fares lowest ten dollars on those. We had there's as low as fifteen or twenty dollars. We were about forty five percent lower than the other carriers. So how were you able to do that? How were you able to charge so much such a lower fare than the other airlines in Texas through enormous productivity? But but how I mean, I'm assuming you said a few planes at the time will we start out with three. And then we got a fourth one we had to get rid of one airplane in order to meet our payroll right after southwest start flying. And so we decided that we would fly a four planes. Schedule with three airplane. How do you do that ten minute turns at the gate we bring that airplane in and ten minutes after it stopped at the gate. You know, it would be pushing back again, and we had airplanes that Univer operating twelve hours a day. Sometimes so each one of those additional flights Representative the revenue generation opportunity that the other Cavs didn't have okay. But even so I mean those other carriers like braniff and Texas international rate, and they were charging much much higher fares. And couldn't it couldn't have just been that you turn to planes around faster knows a whole contra thing, you're you're right about that. I was just giving, you example, with the ten minute turn because it's vivid one in addition to that they were by definition monopolises. They had been under forty years of federal government supervision through the C A B that the civil aeronautics board. Yes. Right. And during that time if they had a little financial problem of the c a b would just give them a fare increase. And so that's how their fares got so high as compared to what we were doing since we won't regulated by the CAP. Okay. So you weren't regulated in the same way. But what were you doing other things like like, paying your employees less? Well, it depended initially. We were paying them less as the years went on. We were paying them more their total compensation was superior to the other carriers. And in addition when we turned our first very slim profit in nineteen Seventy-three, we set up the first profit sharing plan in the American airline industry. And I think we made a profit of I don't know under thousand dollars a year something like that. But that went on, of course, to pour billions interim -ployees pockets and your employees were were unionized as well. Yeah, we were the most heavily. Unionized carrier in the United States are low costs were not due to being a nonunion carrier since we were more unionized than our competitors were. So you were basically introducing these really low fares would these airlines trying to match your prices. Yes. In some cases. They were there's no question about this. A matter of fact braniff at one point put in a lower fare than heirs would say cold an introductory fare. Course they've been serving Texas, you know, for forty years by that time, but in any event one of the things that came out of that was we maintained our full fares. And we told the public of Texas that if you paid the higher fair, we would give you a free bottle of whiskey and so for a couple of months, we became the largest liquor distributor in the state of Texas. So her if I think about flying at that time, like I'm thinking like madmen, and you know, tumblers with scotch and like a glamorous experience, but southwest was competing on price. I mean, you were not you were not doing in-flight cocktail. So like, what do people think of your service versus the competition? I gotta store detail. It was giving of nineteen seventy-one member. We've been in business since June yet, and my sister-in-law delightful lady called me my law this, and then she said her she said, I just flew from Houston to send Antonio and Southwest Airlines. And I've traveled most of the world's airlines, which was true. You know, she was a world traveler, and she said, I know you're going to be a big success. You've got the best in-flight service that I ever experienced any airline. And I said boy am I glad to hear that. How many passengers role Nair plan? She said just me. In just a minute southwest goes, national and herb convinces, travelers airlines do not have to serve inflate meals. And you're listening to how I built this from NPR. It's how I built this from NPR. I'm guy Roz. So throughout the nineteen seventies southwestern lines still only fly within the state of Texas. But then in nineteen seventy eight something really important happens congress decides to completely deregulate the airline industry and for Southwest Airlines. That means they could now start flying to new cities outside of Texas. Her at this point. You southwest is expanding and your competitors are no longer. Just Texas airlines, you're competing was like American and and and and Pan Am and TWA, right. Like, the national major international carrier start to become your competitors. Yeah. So we're we're people skeptical that southwest would be able to compete in the big leagues. Oh, yes. We were described as Texas airline that could only be successful in the state of Texas. Okay. Yeah. Then we were. Then we were described as a sunbelt airline that could not be successful outside the sunbelt. There was a press conference for went into Baltimore. Where one of the reporters there said, well, you know, Mr. Keller, he said, I know you've been very successful out west. But now you're coming to east the most competitive part of the country as far as airline services concerned. And I said, yeah, it's so competitive that when we start out here, we're reducing your existing fares by sixty percent how competitive does that sound. I mean with south west at that time were you guys already sort of no frills what we were. No frills. We're in the sense that we were short hole then that kind of restricts what you can do. You have relatively short flight. Tell like, peanuts and drinks. Yeah. Yeah. Exactly. And then pretzels, and that sort of thing, but you know, when we start flying longer haul like from San Antonio to Los Angeles. We had a press conference, you know, to nounce a new service and one of the reporters there said, well, you going to serve meals on those flights, and I said, no, we're not we're going to charge you four hundred dollars less per trip. Right. And I understand you can get a pretty good sandwich at Chasen's for four hundred dollars. So when at what point did you give up your lap practice, actually that was at the request the board of directors in nineteen eighty one. So you were still you still had your own law practice that you are doing other work for throughout the entire nineteen seventies. Oh, yes. Yell, and I'll tell you the truth, you know, I didn't really hanger to be part of corporate life because you know, lawyers have a lot more freedom to do their own thing when where they want to. But we heard a very excellent FILA name Lamar muse. It was a real battler to get the company off the ground and operational. He has substantial airline experience, and he did a wonderful job. And so, you know, finally in nineteen Eighty-one we'd lost assessor to Lamar and the board director said to me you've got to do it. And and did you want to do it while I felt had to do? And I'll tell you why. Because the start of the nineteen eighties. You had unemployment of ten point eight percent. You had a double dip recession. You had the air traffic controller strike, then Lamar muse the guy we hired to get the company off the ground. He launched competitor against us called Muser. He's he left southwest, and then launched a competitor. Yup. Says three years after he left gold music. How did you feel about that? Well, I thought it was somewhat immodest on his part. But because he called him us air after himself. But were you were you like what are you doing? I mean, I what we work together all these years. And now, you're I mean. No. We bought them later. You bought him later when they're on the verge of bankruptcy. Yeah. We bought news there. But it was there in nineteen Eighty-one. So I figured I'd better do what the board asked me to do. And come to Southwest Airlines fulltime was was what's your lines making money at the time? Yes, we've been profitable every single year for forty three years. I guess now. It must be the other airlines crazy because they were a lot of them have had good years and bad years. But it seems like southwest has just has never had a bad year while we've had years when you know, earnings were down, but we've never had a loss for full year since nineteen seventy two and we've never folow an employee at Southwest Airlines when the rest of the industry during that period up until now as probably thurlowe, I don't know a million and a half employees throughout the world. Basically, we looked at history and said, this is a very dicey business to be in the airline business. Yeah. So we may be flamboyant from the marketing standpoint, but we're going to be very conservative from the fiscal standpoint. And I established a rule of thumb that we're going to pay eighty percent of the cost of all of our new airplanes, internally generated funds and actually. Around up paying one hundred percent for most of our airplanes. So we had the largest percentage in our fleet of owned airplanes of any carrier of any size. So so what does that mean? Well, I mean, you're not taking on that. Right. When you do that. So when you get into bad times, you're not threatened by the debt payments, which is put carriers into bankruptcy out of bankruptcy and back into bankruptcy. You know for thirty five years, you know, her from from outside from listening to stories the airline industry seems so brutal. Is it do you think it's more savage than than other industries? I think that it's more competitive than other industries and one of the reasons for that is that our principal capital assets. The airplanes move at five hundred and forty miles an hour. And you know, if you have a shoe factory that that fails in Seattle as an example, you can't within hours transport that shoe factory to Chattanooga Tennessee to compete there. But if you're Seattle air service fails, you can have your airplanes in San Antonio where Chattanooga within a matter of hours. So the very mobility of your capital assets breeds a lot of competition like that competition. Like did you like being an airline CEO and in managing all that stuff? Was it fun for you? Well, I had to adapt myself. Yeah, I love being with the people that Southwest Airlines that was like a fountain of youth for me. They were so wonderful and entertaining, and you know, great to be with that part of it. But when you're practicing law, you're pretty much do your own thing. And it's a swift pace. Well, things didn't move swiftly at first. When I came to Southwest Airlines fulltime, and I'm we're swiftly compared to the rest of the airline industry. But not compared to my experience who you pushing for expansion and growth and all those things during your tenure. Oh, yes. I mean, Southwest Airlines expanded enormously, you know, from a very small base. But I soon realize it was a speech that I went to here. Where a guru said if you can improve corporation five percent a year, that's a miracle. I said, oh, okay. I was trying to do twenty five percent. Maybe that's why I was feeling a little frustrated. So it really brought my thinking, you know, more in line. You know, I'm thinking, even if it might have seemed like it was a slow process for you. The fact that southwest was growing and can prevailed in this industries is pretty remarkable. And it's pretty unbelievable given that you know, so many of those early competitors. Don't even exist anymore and some of the great conic airlines TWA Pan, Am they're gone exactly many of them. They're very few left. What mistakes did they make that do seem not to have made? Well, we just did things differently. Like market share, you know, shibboleth supposedly. And I told anybody that they mentioned market share. I punch him in the nose because here all these big companies fighting over their market share and losing money in furloughing employees. Yeah, let's focus on profitability. And if we have four percent of the market, we're profitable. That's better than having ninety percent of the market and being unprofitable. What's the value of south west today overall? Yeah. Oh, probably twenty billion dollars something like that. So we're talking about one of the biggest airlines in the United States easily in the world in terms of passengers carried son believable. Yeah. It really is. It's like I've had too much wild Turkey and fantasizing. When you started the company how much how much did you invest personally invested ten thousand dollars, which must be worth quite a bit today. I imagine we'll it's gone up some since then. But at the company is what I thought was a requirement of good leadership. I always turned down pay increases bonus increases to set a good example. I thought for all of our people, of course, the stock that I got Rosenbaum Asli in value. But that was in lieu of cash compensation. See were you mainly paid with with stock options? Yeah. Basically was talk. I got the biggest kick out just to give an exemplar when I did a stock option deal in lieu of pay raises with our pilots. So they get Southwest Airlines stock options in lieu of the pay increase. I took no pay increase along with them. And I'm not trying to single anybody out. But there is a the. The head of an airline that was more than Southwest Airlines and on the verge of going out of business who salary and bonus for three times what mine were Southwest Airlines. And that's the way I wanted it probably like are you worried that some, you know, some young, you know, her Keller type characters gonna come around and put up some upstart airline and knock southwest west off. It's thrown I'm concerned about it. All the time. I vote to let her employee's. And it was about my ten foremost concerns for the next decade of Southwest Airlines. Okay. Yeah. And number one was us that we ignore competition that we get complacent that we get cocky, and I used to line think small and axe mall, and we'll get bigger think they enact big, and we'll get smaller. So can happen. One day. Oh, it's possible. You know, I'm a history buff. And if you look at the largest companies in United States. As the nineteenth century turned into the twentieth. Most of them are gone. The central leather company in nineteen hundred nineteen o one was a seventeenth largest company in the United States. But it didn't anticipate what the advent of the Ford automobile with going to mean, you know, what it did. It made buggy whips and saddles and never stopped doing it until it was gone. And if you look at countries or look at companies, they perish, and if you have any sense of history, you realize that and you know, try to avoid it in a hearing the story of how you made this happen and all the work you put into it. I wonder if you think you're just wired differently to be able to put up with all that stuff for so many years. Well, I yeah, I probably I'm wired a little bit differently from from many people nerve probably very happy about that difference themselves. But one of the things is that I never looked back. You know, I don't spend a lot of time regretting things that went wrong. And Furthermore, I think that I've always had a great deal of fun out of what I was doing. And you know, people would say to me, why don't you? Why don't you burned out? You know, I was working one hundred hours a week love Lanta, very simply. Well, it's easy. When you have a passionate joy in what you're doing. You. Don't burn out. Her Kelleher co-founded Southwest Airlines fifty years ago, and he served as CEO. And then Ford before retiring in two thousand eight by the way, herb Kelleher once result a trademark dispute with a rival airline both using the slogan plane smart, he resolved this not in court, but by challenging the other CEO to a public arm wrestling match, which herb Kelleher washed. You can see that entire arm. Wrestling match just go to Google and type in the malice in Dallas.

Southwest Airlines Texas United States San Antonio Houston Dallas herb Kelleher Mr. Keller Southwest Roz NPR rollin king CEO California Warren Buffett Turkey Texas supreme court tabula Rasa Wrestling
Southwest vs American - The Darling of Deregulation | 4

Business Wars

29:36 min | 2 years ago

Southwest vs American - The Darling of Deregulation | 4

"June twenty seven nineteen seventy seven. It's a banner day, Southwest Airlines trading on the new York Stock Exchange. For the first time it's listed under the symbol, l UV a nod to its home airport code for Dallas's love. Veal spirits are high and rising. Why shouldn't they be the airline is debt free and profitable. It's got nine planes cruising the skies of Texas. And as of this day, five million passengers aboard, south west, south west, still only operates inside Texas where it doesn't have to worry about federal regulations that govern other airlines flying between states. But now Washington is looking to deregulate the industry and the other airlines are sensing downdraft without regulation that protects big carriers, high fares upstarts like southwest could be a threat. Still southwest airline CEO, Lamar muse isn't popping. Champagne instead veins are popping out on his forehead. He squabbling with rollin king southwest spout, her board member and chief pilot. They fight over the growth and direction of company, and it intensifies for a year. Finally on March twenty fourth nineteen, seventy eight. It boils over Southwest's corporate attorney. Herb Kelleher gets a call from king her Lamar's a frigging nightmare. He wants to double out west split to fourteen plane, just insane, and he wants to start a subsidiary in Chicago that he wants to call mid way southwest and he wants his son, Mike, his son to run it. This will over stretches and jeopardise southwest. Herb. You gotta stop him. Rollin Lamar's looking to do some aggressive things. I know Kelleher secretary walks into Keller's office, but I heard hang on a second Kelleher, puts his hand over the phone as he waits to learn why the secretaries interrupting Lamar muse is on the other line. Kelleher, smacks is for hit. He's been the go-between in nearly all of the squabbles between king and muse for eighteen months now and Keller is reaching his limit look around and we'll take care of this at the next board meeting. Okay. Sorry, I'm gonna have to call you back. After trying to talk both muse and king off the ledge Kelleher, this exhausted, he sits at his desk for a moment, his shoulders hunched and his eyes closed. He gets up and walks to a secretary's desk. I can't be the referee in nonstop sparring match anymore. I love this airline Baronne and Lamar gonna destroy it from within. I can't stop. I give up. Kelleher worked like a dog with these two men to get southwest aloft, but it just feels like too much. Now he was a deep sigh and look sadly to a secretary. Let's draft a letter to the board. That afternoon. Each member of the board receives a telegram from Kelleher informing them that he is resigning. He is ready to move on. Kelleher heads to the airport to catch a flight to Houston to work on a case for another client as he's boarding, he's unaware that Lamar muse has drafted his own letter to the board that same afternoon, it reads, I hear with offer my resignation as an employee of Southwest Airlines, just when the sky appears to be the limit for southwest two of the three men most responsible for its success have quit, and it's not like southwest can continue to ascend on autopilot. Someone has to take over the controls, but who. We're well into the summer months now. And if you're feeling stressed because you waited too long to book that vacation that I have great news for you hotel tonight is an app that partners with awesome top rated hotels to help them sell their on, sold rooms, which means you get incredible deals and they only work with hotels. They think you'll love my friends found out what I did. They're saving hundreds on their trips and finding a great selection of rooms with hotel tonight. If you can save all this money, why use anything else hotel tonight is great for booking last minute. But if you're a planner, the mishap is for you to because even though the name is hotel tonight, you can actually book in advance whether you're booking your summer vacation a place to hang out by the pool, spontaneous weekend getaways stations road trips, business trips. Well, this is the place to do it. You can book a room intense. Seconds. All it takes his three taps and swipe. So to start getting really great deals at great hotels for this summer and beyond. Check out the hotel tonight app right now and with promo code biz wars, you can get twenty five dollars off. Your first eligible booking. That's promo code biz wars be is e. w. a. r. s. to get twenty five dollars off your first eligible booking. From wondering, I'm David Brown, and this is business. You're listening to the fourth installment in our Southwest Airlines versus American Airlines series. The darling of deregulation in our last episode, American Airlines best its rivals by rolling out the first industry-wide computerized reservation system and terminal a system. Other carriers will have to pay American to join. Southwest Airlines won a huge victory to a legal won a federal grand jury indicted. It's two chief rivals on charges of conspiring to put south west out of business. Southwest should be gliding, but the infighting is creating a drag on the airline things are moving so quickly that the board doesn't even realize both Lamar muse and herb Keller have resigned. Get Kelleher telegram. I and their first reaction is to send a letter to muse instructing him not to. Except Keller his resignation until they've had a chance to talk to him muses confused. What about my resignation? He thinks his notice was actually a thinly veiled ultimatum. Either you fire rollin rile walk. When news, here's of Keller's resignation, he interprets it as a ploy. He thinks that Kelleher must be supporting his effort to force the board cut Rawling king loose. The board calls for a special meeting at rollin kings office at love field. It's a small room with a lot of people in it, including news, they get down to business, no chitchat. First up, John merkin a part owner of the Super Bowl champion, Dallas Cowboys and one of Southwest's first investors. The first thing we need to do is to accept Lamar's, resignation, music, shocked. He's thinking, wait what the board is letting me go instead of king fury in heard overwhelm us. He suddenly realizes that king has swayed the board members to his point of view that muse is leading southwest in the wrong direction. Views gets up suddenly. Oh yeah. This is the way you feel you don't need me in here anymore. After moose storms out aboard, member grabs a phone. I need to speak with herb Kelleher Arado way. Oh, he's in Houston. Okay, fine. Patch me through to Gela here herb. We have a real emergency. You better get up here right away. There's a one pm board meeting. We need you. The airline needs you'd be at the meeting John. This is a bit awkward. Didn't you get my resignation? We did and we don't accept it. Now Keller has got a pretty good idea what this is all about, but he has no clue how it will unfold. He's only brought one extra suit with him to Houston, and he figures he'll need to keep it pressed if this emergency drags on for a few days. So he heads to the crew closet in the back of the seven thirty seven quietly hangs up his suit a southwest hostess spots. Him, sir. You can't hang that here. That's for crew only. Oh, it's okay. I'm I'm actually the corporate council for south west airlines. Oh, sure you are. And on the king of Siam. Now you gotta store that somewhere else, sir. Back at love field days, Lamar muse calls his wife after leaving the board meeting, Honey, you need to come down to the office and pick me up. I can't drive the company car anymore bore. Just let me go when Kelleher arrives in Dallas, the board reconvenes. But before they go any further, there's some business he wants to take care of now, listen everyone. Why in God's name would you let the Margot he's done a terrific job. Look, let me talk to him. I think we can resolve this somehow. The board reluctantly agrees, but Keller can't find Mu's. His wife is already picked him up. He's gone. The directors take his departure as a final gesture that he wants out. The unanimously vote to oust muse Kelleher abstains. Now there's the question of succession. Assuming he's about to be offered. The helm of the company and excited king begins to stand up ready to accept the role as he gets to his feet. One board member doesn't even glance at king. Instead, he turns to herb Kelleher her, you have to be the chairman and CEO. King sits back down crestfallen. He knows how warmly the board regards competent and personable Keller. Frankly, he just can't bring himself to start another fight. Kelleher, we'll Kelleher is also caught off guard way me. I've barely worked on internal operations here a flight attendant today didn't even recognize me. I'm a lawyer. He pauses for a moment and thinks well, yes, maybe could be chairman, but at least for awhile we're going to need to bring in a professional airline executive CEO. Okay. All in favor of her becoming chairman. Southwest Airlines is now in herbs hands. At American Airlines CEO Al Casey is meeting with his top executives, including Bob Crandall. His director of marketing Casey explains that the company is in a dire situation. American Airlines revenues arising. That's the end of the good news. American has sunk one hundred million dollars into its computerized saber reservation at work in terminal system in the offices of more than one hundred thirty top travel agents. It'll take years to recover that investment. An American doesn't have that kind of time as bleak as it is. That's not even the biggest problem that would be deregulation. Like the other regulated carriers American competes by flying routes that other carriers don't. The big carriers just stay out of each other's way. American might say, fly more direct flights between New York and Los Angeles than United, for instance, or offer a class of service. Maybe a lobster dinner on board or piano lounge in coach class on seven forty seven jets, and it charges premium fares for all this all permitted under regulation. But deregulation threatens to reduce the distinctions between carriers to one common denominator, price, whoever can afford to charge the least will win. And that's just the killer scenario that worries, Casey, David, -regulation we're going to have to cut fares to compete and if that wasn't bad enough. Well, to be Frank, we're out of money and we're in debt. So if we're gonna. Survive. We need to raise money. Yeah. Yes. The situation is that dire. The board leaves the meeting, worried. Casey is desperate to find ways to save money. And then he has an idea. He heads to the airport at Dallas Fort Worth or DFW to meet with an airport official. They shake hands cordially, and then retreat to an office. The sound of jets taking off the distance. Listen, I'm thinking of moving some of Americans operations from New York to a new office building. DFW might save some money for sure. I'll when y'all gonna move all of Americans operations to DFW. Casey snaps, his briefcase shut and stands to leave. Tell you what? Why don't you just make me an offer or the next hour? Casey and the official haggle over relocation terms, the cities of Dallas Fort Worth, as well as the DFW airport. Authority will issue. One hundred forty, seven million dollars worth of bonds to build Americans new headquarters. They've agreed to lease the facility to the airline tax free at a rate just high enough to pay off the bonds. Casey does some calculations on the spot. All right, so that, yeah, that'll save us about two hundred million over the next twenty years. Yeah, this is just the kind of thing I've been looking for. Yes, sir. We've got a deal. In the summer of nineteen seventy eight. The Senate passes the airline deregulation Bill as it makes its way through the house, the news of American Airlines impending move to DFW leaks to the press. Just as Casey is in Dallas touring potential headquarters sites in Texas. He's hailed as a hero when he returns to Manhattan. His secretary warns him that a different kind of greeting await simp-. The mayor of New York is called six times. He urgently wants to meet with you. He's very angry about us leaving the city a day later, New York Mayor Ed Koch, and New York City's entire congressional delegation cram into Casey's e side office. Casey New York will match DFW's financial incentives. We can also offer deeply discounted prime office space in the World Trade Center Koch leans back in his chair, confident that he will bring Casey. Around Mr Mayor that's generous, but there's something you can't offer that Texas can deregulation is clearly coming and in a deregulated world, we're going to need this kind of political clout to protect us. Texas has that and New York doesn't consider this. The majority leader of the house has a congressional district that includes DFW airport, Mr., Casey, then you're telling me you're just going to abandon New York for a few dollars and a few political points. If so, you're also betraying this city. Maybe conscious purposely missing the point. Doesn't matter. Casey has had enough. He walks to his office door and hold it. Open gentlemen. This meeting is over. American package bags American will fly into the deregulated skies from Dallas that puts them right into the flight path of the airline that is best prepared for deregulation. Southwest Airlines. When was the last time you used net flicks or another streaming service, thousands of movies and TV shows at your fingertips twenty years ago. It took a lot more work to watch a movie. But today, convenience is king. We choose convenient businesses daily, and they're some of the world's most dominant brands with podium. You don't have to be an app or online business to be a convenient business. Podium helps all kinds of companies big and small become easy to find choose and connect with. Here's how it works through podium. Customers can get in touch with your business. Ask questions, schedule appointments, leave online reviews, and more all via text. 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That means no worrying about things like servers backups or adding storage being on the cloud means you and your team can work together from anywhere at anytime giving you maximum flexibility. Never again, will you have to drive to the office on a Saturday? When you realize you forgot to submit the numbers to your boss, just pop open your laptop. Smartphone, take care of it from home and get back to having a life right networks offers twenty four, seven, three sixty five US-based support. So getting your business on the cloud is easy. No matter how much or little experience you have with technology over one hundred thousand users, trust right networks to cloud, enable their QuickBooks desktop. Get cloud connected the right way to learn more. Give right networks a call at one eight, two one zero zero, two, three, seven for a special ten percent off discount. Make sure to mention business wars before September. Thirtieth twenty eight teen that number again one eight eight eight two one zero zero two, three, seven, and don't forget to mention business wars. It's just before midnight on October nineteenth nineteen Seventy-eight in Washington. At this late hour rowdy bar crawlers cruising through the streets music blaring, but traffic slows to a crawl at the inexplicable side of about two dozen people dressed in business attire lined up on the sidewalk outside the civil aeronautics board. In five days president, Jimmy Carter is expected to sign the airline deregulation act of nineteen seventy eight, which has passed the Senate and house with bipartisan support. One day later, the c. a. b. the regulatory body that has governed the airline industry for four decades. We'll take applications from airlines for new routes. They wanna serve routes where they'll face open competition on price. For the first time, the applications will be taken on a first come for serve basis. That's why tonight almost two dozen airline representatives have essentially camped out on the streets of DC their place holders, others dress, just like them. We'll take their place many times in the days before they actually hand the c. a. b. they're requested routes. Some try to Chit chat to pass the time from braniff you wit American more routes you guys trying to get why. Rates. I'm not telling you anything that's a trade secret pal. When the doors do finally open, there's a mad confused. Gold rush for routes the airlines claim. One thousand two hundred ninety two routes most of which are not currently served by any carrier. Braniff alone claims the right to serve six hundred different routes across the country. Deregulation has certainly arrived, but no one is exactly sure what it'll mean. Even southwest. The so-called darling of deregulation is cautious about expansion. Southwest's new CEO Howard Putnam a former United executive hired Keller her suggestion after Kelleher refused to be both CEO and chairman after Musa's resignation decides to apply for a single new route Putnam also shelves, Lamar muses plan to double the size of the airline by opening a subsidiary flying for midway airport in Chicago. Putnam's less concerned about the regulators. Then he is about over expansion his thinking just because southwest can fly anywhere it wants. Doesn't mean it should. Other airlines are still grabbing up as many routes as they can January of nineteen seventy nine, but southwest applies for an additional new route Dallas to New Orleans. Then something odd happens Representative. Jim Wright, the house majority leader begins hearings aimed at creating Bill, banning all interstate service from one airport in the whole country. Southwest's home base of love field. It's suspicious on the face of it Putnam as blindsided. He huddles with Keller herb helped me understand the cities of Dallas and Fort Worth who owned DFW airport still want to force us to move to DFT. W, right? Yeah. The FW is in Jim Reich's district. So he's going to protect DFW interests and braniff, and American Airlines are headquartered at DFW, so they're going to be beneficiaries. If we by law can't fly anywhere in the country out of love. We can't fully compete with flights out of DFW. They can go everywhere. So we're servicing eight cities in Texas and it's no problem. But if we operate out of love field somehow that violates the law, this stinks, we're not lying down for this herb. Let's go beat them in congress. Kelleher gets on a flight. An American Airlines flight out of BF WLS and heads to Washington to have lunch with Oregon Senator Bob Packwood. They go way back. He's a friend and former classmate from NYU law school. Bob, this is so wrong. You know that the competition has been suing for nine years to get us out of love field, right? We've always want now we have to fight to be able to fly out of state from love field. Hell this isn't just anticompetitive. It's legal harassment. Yeah, that's what it sounds like. I'll tell you what her, I'll do everything I can to help you. I didn't vote to deregulate the airlines just so we can start regulating individual airports. I can promise you her by can promise you right now all block every piece of aviation legislation coming out of the house until we get this settle. I'm going to be a thorn in Jim right side and he is sure enough rights Bill languishes as the standoff between the two chambers goes on Arizona's no nonsense Senator Barry Goldwater Wade's in. I think we're acting like a bunch of yoyos. Why can't people just fly to the air. They want to fly to what the hell is going on. Eventually Kelleher himself, it's down with right and hammers out a compromise. Southwest can fly nonstop from love field to cities within Texas and within the four states contiguous to Texas. But before the deal is sealed, right, asks herb for a pledge hard. Once this law is in place, I have to know that you won't sued undo it. You understand congressman, I promise you that Southwest Airlines will remain forever passionately neutral on this issue. I understand that we're politically outgunned on this and I won't sue on February fifteenth. President Carter signs the compromise into law. It's called the Wright amendment. Southwest has lost some of its edge at love field, but just as it's competitors, start working their advantage at the. FW airport, southwest deploys a new weapon that surprisingly powerful against the competition. The once resigned then re conscripted herb Kelleher as incredibly effective brand spokesman in the next episode of south west versus American Airlines Americans, Bob Crandall devises a strategy to snuff out rivals, but like some kind of zombie airline that refuses to die. Southwest keeps coming at American and makes it bleed. From wondering, this is business wars. We hope you enjoyed this episode. Please subscribe on apple podcasts, Spotify, Google podcasts, Stitcher. I heart radio over ever. You listen to podcasts, you'll find a link on the episode notes, just tap or swipe over the cover art. You'll also see some offers from our sponsors and we hope you can support our show by supporting them if you like what you've heard, we'd love it. If you could give us a five star rating until your friends, how to subscribe to another way to support us is answer a short survey at wondering dot com slash survey and tell us what business war stories you'd like to hear. And a quick note about the conversations you've been hearing. We can't know exactly what was said, but this dialogue is based on our best research. I'm your host, David Brown, Joseph, winter wrote this story, Karen low is our senior producer and editor, Ginny lower, is our producer sound design pipe. The area south. Our executive producer is Marshall Louis created by earn on Lou pats four binary. Have you been listening to anything? Good lately, I'm talking about music. Not podcasts. Got anything on repeat for me lately. It's been Alice Cooper, yeah. Yeah. I'm such a Qatar guy. I've been going back through his whole catalogue revisiting songs. I haven't heard in years. It's a real trip down memory lane. There's something about driving down the road with the windows down singing eighteen and it really makes me feel great. Yeah, maybe I feel a little eighteen years old to, but I've been on this journey. Thanks to apple music with apple. Music can listen to all the classic rock. My heart desires and then switch over to pretty much anything else I want because with apple music, I get over fifty million songs ad free and get this. If you go to apple music dot com, slash BW, you can get your first three months for free. There's no obligation and you can cancel it anytime. So find your next album to put on repeat by visiting. Apple music dot com. Slash BW and get your first three months, free apple music dot com. Slash BW.

Herb Kelleher Southwest Airlines Southwest herb Keller Rollin Lamar American Airlines DFW Dallas Al Casey Texas CEO Kelleher secretary ledge Kelleher New York City Washington David Brown herb Kelleher Arado king
Southwest vs American - Free LUV | 6

Business Wars

29:00 min | 2 years ago

Southwest vs American - Free LUV | 6

"It's fall. Nine hundred eighty five. Thanks to deregulation. No frills knockoffs of southwest. Take to the skies, like crows new carriers start service from coast to coast, but some have trouble staying aloft about one hundred. Twenty airlines have gone out of business or filed for bankruptcy since the industry was deregulated in nineteen seventy eight. Among those successfully rising above the flock, his people express, it's buying plane's cheap, like secondhand clothes from bankrupt. Competitors like granite. It's an airline where mostly young employees own stock share jobs and manage themselves. If southwest is the author shucks airline people express seems like an airline run by new age hippies. The adult at the helm of the youthful airline is Donald. Ver a Harvard educated preppy. And it's no frills airline. Make southwest look posh by comparison passengers pay for luggage, even coughing fifty cents a Cup. They pay for their dirt cheap tickets in flight blue cost airline becomes the greyhound bus of the sky. In fact, it's tickets are cheaper than bus fares flights are packed, but the CEO of people express is about to get a wakeup call from an unexpected source. Hi, mom, what's up, we'll thanksgiving is coming up, so I just wanted to let you know I'm visiting your brother this year. I actually just booked my airplane ticket to go see him. I'm flying on American Airlines way. Mom, you what you booked a flight on American. Yes, they've got a great sale right now. It's all over the news, seventy percent off mom. You can fly free on people express when Burr hangs up. He feel sick. Yeah. His own mother is defecting to American. The airline has been growing explosively moving from second tier two airports in highly competitive markets, but to survive on such thin margins planes need to fly nearly full. And things have been getting ugly airports, people express customers are angry about chronic delays. Cancellations. Some began calling the airline people distress. American smells blood and circles. People express like it's a wounded bird. It aims to knock the star airline and others like it right out of the sky with low fares and dependable flights, and American has a huge technological edge. It's saber reservation system can accurately predict how many seats will be sold on any flight on any given day. Some seat sell for full price, but when Sabre's algorithms detected seats go unsold American quickly offered discounted fares to fill those spots. They dubbed the discounts ultimate super savers American CEO Bob Crandall is moving on another front to he's building new hub terminals at airports around the country at breathtaking speed. Adding on average one new plane thousand new workers to American every week. In early nineteen eighty-seven. Crandall and Southwest Airlines CEO herb Kelleher our in Washington for an industry conference. Someone asks Kelleher what it's like competing with Crandall. Well, I'll tell you being a Dallas right now with what's happening with American. It's not unlike being Finland in the shadow of Russia. Crandall smirks. He's not looking for a detente with southwest just yet as one important difference there. Unlike the Soviets right now, I reduce my arse all those hubs. All those planes. All important weapons to have when the economy is right side up for when things go, south Franco will face a frightening question, will the things that give the company strength suddenly become a liability. We're well into the summer months now. And if you're feeling stressed because you waited too long to book that vacation than I have great news for you hotel tonight is an app that partners with awesome top rated hotels to help them sell their unsold rooms, which means you get incredible deals and they only worked with hotels. They think you'll love my friends found out what I did. They're saving hundreds on their trips and finding a great selection of rooms with hotel tonight. If you can save all this money, why use anything else hotel tonight is great for booking last minute. But if you're a planner, the mishap is for you to because even though the name is hotel tonight, you can actually book in advance whether you're booking your summer vacation a place to hang out by the pool, spontaneous weekend getaways stations road trips, business trips. Well, this is the place to do it. You can book a room in ten seconds. All it takes his three taps and swipe. So to start getting really great deals at great hotels for this summer and beyond. Check out the hotel tonight app right now and with promo code biz wars, you can get twenty five dollars off. Your first eligible booking. That's promo code biz wars be is e. w. a. r. s. to get twenty five dollars off your first eligible booking. From wondering, I'm David Brown, and this is business. You're listening to the final installment in our southwest versus American series. Free love. In our last episode American built the most powerful hub in the airline industry and bested braniff in a long fare-war war helping to drive one of south West's main rivals out of business southwest. Meanwhile, Volvo from a kitschy carrier selling sex appeal to one that has more fun in-flight than anyone else. Now, as this business war intensifies, southwest looks to turn its quirky corporate culture into a long term strategic advantage. American charts, of course, to becoming the biggest smartest carrier in the sky, and they're both headed toward a final resolution in a fight for hometown air rights. It's eight. Oh five AM on August night. Nineteen eighty-seven. A Royal blue McDonald Douglas MDA is performing a low altitude fly by the terminal at Houston's hobby air the plane circles back then touches down, gently and taxis toward its gate. A flight attendant makes an announcement, the seventeen passengers on board ladies and gentlemen on trans star flight. Five, four, seven, welcome to Houston. This is the termination of our flight today and our airline. Thank you. Trans star is or was a subsidiary of Southwest Airlines. It was formed out of Muser. The airline begun by former southwest CEO Lamar muse Kelleher bought Musar in one thousand nine hundred five. It's been losing two million dollars a month with trans star, weighing on its books, southwest posts, its first money losing quarter since nineteen, seventy three southwest sells most of trans stars eighteen planes to Texas Air, thirteen hundred, trans star workers lose their jobs. Those who get offered jobs at southwest are in for a bit of a culture shock. They're shown a southwest orientation video for new employees. This show, but without. On the ground. Strange. Yeah, that's her doing a funky little rap. Who else? Southwest is now banking on fun rather than its early days of sex appeal. In the video flight attendants have ditched hot pants in favor of khaki shorts, where flights in nineteen seventy-one had a Las Vegas lounge vibe today. Southwest is more like a backyard barbecue in the air except with peanuts instead of brisket. By April nineteen Eighty-eight. Southwest decides to play up fun while it pushes down prices for years. Southwest kept its fair structures, simple. So as not to confuse passengers. But now southwest bows to the market pressures created by Americans ultimate super savers southwest introduces advanced purchase seats called funfairs. It looked like another boring month. He was going to rearrange his sock drawer. She thought they'd fixed the cat. Then they discovered Southwest Airlines funfairs soon. They were getting away from just nineteen dollars to all sorts of exciting cities. Seeing things their mothers had warned them about eating food. They couldn't pronounce laughing out loud for no apparent reason. Southwest Airlines, funfairs. If you've got nineteen dollars, they're available. Now, if not never. Crandall may have lowered the bar with his high tech fares, but southwest has just limbo right under it offering rock bottom rates that are half the price of Americans lowest fare. It's may twenty third nineteen eighty eight and Kelleher demonstrates he's not above a bit of huxterism. One of the Airlines, Boeing, seven, thirty-seven. Three hundred touches down in San Antonio. It's painted like Shamu the killer whale a top attraction at SeaWorld and it's named Shamu. One southwest is signed paid promotional partnership with the marine mammal part. The plane taxis to a set of air stairs on a corner of the tarmac, getting off the plane or five people wearing penguin suits. One is Keller. The others are the chairman of SeaWorld of Texas and the mayors of San Antonio, Houston, and Dallas. They stand in their penguin suits in front of the seven thirty seven, which has just made its inaugural flight. They reinforce its image as the carrier that doesn't take itself too seriously. No kidding. The next day Bob Crandall the gruff Rhode Island, born CEO of American calls Keller. Her nice gimmick, but I do have one question for you. What are you gonna do with all the whale crap. Well, Bob, I'm gonna turn it into chocolate mousse and spoon feed it. All you Damn Yankees in Rhode Island. If you days later package arrives Crandall office, it's a three foot wide plastic tub filled with chocolate mousse in the middle of tub. There's a spoon in the shape of shampoo. The whale. Crandall laps and calls in his staff to eat up Keller's offering. He thinks to himself this crazy herb guys and half bad. At the moment. Crandall has plenty to smile about American is poised to become the number one air carrier in the country best in United in total domestic market share. It also has the biggest fleet and the most employees of any airline eighty thousand workers. It's late in nine hundred nine in calling Barrett, the corporate secretary of southwest and keeper of Kelleher schedule. He's notoriously disorganized is in her office with a team of her direct reports. The writing responses to letters from customers. One part of Barrett's work to reinforce the company's friendly culture. Today. A couple of hundred letters are stacked up on Barrett's desk. She's a chain smoker, like our boss, and she takes a long drag on barklay while reading one of the letters. Oh my gosh. Well, you look at this one. This is from a customer and V-neck. She was on a plane recently and says, this grey haired man got up from his seat and ask the flight attendant. If he could help her pass out peanuts, she's talking about her. She has no idea. Look, she writes, I just think it is so nice that Southwest Airlines is giving work opportunities to elderly people. American may have it size algorithms, but Southwest's corporate culture has definitely created something unique. As the decade rolls on Southwest's competitors. Also try to give that loving feeling to passengers and that would be all well and good if it weren't for the turbulence in the new decade ahead. America awakes to the drumbeats of war, sending oil and gas prices up and markets down. All airlines will feel the downdraft, but southwest will prove to be an astonishing exception. Airline travel even at its best can be exhausting. You're away from home, waiting sitting for hours on end. Sometimes you get to feeling less than fresh. One thing that can immediately make me feel a little more like myself is a good brushing with my quip. Electric toothbrush. If these days I wouldn't even think of traveling without it, it comes with a hygenic cover that. So easy to pop on before you head out the door that way, no matter where I go, I can get the amazing brush. I've come to appreciate from quip this toothbrush delivers just the right amount of abrasions to clean my teeth and they send me a new brush head every three months for just five dollars. Quip starts just twenty five dollars. And if you go to get quip dot com slash b, w right now you'll get your first refill pack free with quip electric toothbrush, and you'll be supporting business wars in the process that your I refill pack free at get quip dot com. Slash BW's spelled g. e. t. Hugh you, I p dot com slash b w. Have you been listening to anything? Good lately, I'm talking about music. Not podcasts. Got anything on repeat for me lately. It's been Alice Cooper, yeah. Yeah. I'm such a Qatar guy. I've been going back through his whole catalogue revisiting songs. I haven't heard in years and it's a real trip down memory lane. There's something about driving down the road with the windows down singing I- Mateen and it really makes me feel great. Yeah, maybe I feel a little eighteen years old to, but I've been on this journey. Thanks to apple music with apple music. I can listen to all the classic rock. My heart desires and then switch over to pretty much anything else I want because with apple music, I get over fifty million songs ad free and get this. If you go to apple music dot com, slash BW, you can get your first three months for free. There's no obligation and you can cancel at anytime. So find your next album to put on repeat by visiting apple music dot com. Slash BW and get your first three months, free apple music dot com. Slash BW. January sixteenth nineteen Ninety-one. The United States has begun an aerial bombardment of arrived five months ago Sadam Assane started this cruel war against Kuwait. Tonight the battle has been joined. The Gulf war has already rattled markets in sent the price of crude oil skyrocketing. A global recession is underway, but Southwest's loyal employees come to the company's rescue agreeing to have money withdrawn from their paychecks to help the company cover rising fuel costs, the gestures big, but its impact on the bottom line is not steal. Southwest's leadership manages planning for two major economic shocks per decade. When this one arrives, they've already Inc long term contracts to buy fuel at locked in prices price. Is lower than those found during the Gulf war that helps southwest become the only big airline that makes money in these years. For most other major airlines, the economic crisis is financially crushing. The biggest carriers have followed American Airlines lead in recent years by investing in new planes hiring new workers and building new hub terminals at airports around the country. Now with all that new capacity available planes are flying empty. Reading start spilling across the big carriers balance sheets and bad blood rises among them. On June tenth nineteen Ninety-two Bob Crandall appears before a Senate committee. He's been summoned to respond to accusations that he's been trying to put competitors out of business by pricing. His airlines fares below its costs that same day shareholders of continental and American west filed suit against American making the same accusations Crandall who's been called the bully of the skies and the Attila the hun of airlines is relishing the coming confrontation as cameras role in a bit of showmanship. He tells the Senate committee that if it really wants to make a difference issued reform, the bankruptcy laws so that air carriers in chapter eleven can't break union contracts. The laws flexibility currently allows broke airlines to us bankruptcy court to reduce their operating costs and beat competitors prices. Senators. The problem with America West is that its management has failed. Some of these airlines are Wheeler dealers noted the balance sheet with dead. You allow the market to finish the painful process of eliminating surplus capacity. Don't prop- bad operators up in bankruptcy courts where they're free to change their cost structures and lonely bankrupt. All of us and this business is already intensely vigorously bitterly savagely competitive. Nearly a year later in April of nineteen Ninety-three Crandall boards in American Airlines flight from DFW to San Jose, California. He's heading out to address the corporate troops amid an intense fair war going on in California between southwest and United Airlines. United has launched a low cost airline within an airline called shuttle by United much like southwest. And now the battle between shuttle and southwest is drawing blood at American. When Crandall reaches the conference hall in San Jose, the troops are waiting, but they are completely unprepared for the bomb. He's about to drop. Our losses in San Jose have been significant. They amount to fifty million dollars annually and more competition is on the way. Southwest Airlines announced it will substantially expand service in California, more specifically in San Jose, then he delivers the kicker. So with regret, I inform you that we are closing our hub in San Jose, and we'll begin an immediate draw down of flights in service here. Southwest is coming and Tila Bihan is in full retreat. June. Third nineteen Ninety-three is a beautiful breezy seventy three degree day in Washington DC, but a commission created by congress is locked away inside the Eisenhower executive office building. Wise cracking Kelleher is they're being as usual affable self, turning around in his seat to glad-hand folks at the hearing. Well, the commission please come to order including Mr. Keller. Yes. Mr chairman, he's appearing before a committee, looking for solutions to the ongoing airline industry. Crisis airlines have been dropping from the sky like crazy from nineteen eighty nine to nineteen Ninety-three airlines have lost a collective, thirteen billion dollars that wipes out every dollar airlines have made since the Wright brothers. I took off from Kitty Hawk in nineteen. Oh, three. The commission is considering everything from bankruptcy reform to outright reregulation of the industry. Its members include consultants, travel agents, labor officials, ex congressman and exactly one airline executive herb Kelleher. But for today's hearings, the CEO's of almost every other major airline have come to testify. One Commissioner directs a pointed question at the CEO's have plenty of bankruptcy since deregulation. Braniff America, West continental frontier eastern. We've also recently seen the emergence of multiple southwest clones like ValuJet and Kiwi international and more apparently are on their way. And then there's there's theirself west, which has a twenty year track record of success. So my question to the four of you is, why can't you be more like herb her grins? Like a madman Bob Crandall sitting across the room from Keller speaks up members of the commission and his most excellent Kelleher southwest has the world's finest peanuts, but they have no other food costs. Now herb is done a splendid job, but to get where he is. American would have to go back in Terre our company up and some very significant ways in order to match his prices, we'd have to dramatically row back. Compensation benefits. The committee doesn't call reregulation, but it does tell c. e. o.'s to save themselves even if it means tearing up the business models. It seems that one thing is clear to everyone Southwest's model of low fares and officiant. Friendly service now defines the US airline industry. Actually, all kinds of companies are looking to southwest for inspiration. Nineteen ninety six and the Macher rano is a hit song dancing sation. Southwest love field headquarters. Dozens of executives from other companies are required to do the dance too. Southwest quirky, kinetic cultures become so legendary that company now puts on south west days. Several times a year executives from all kinds of industries pay one hundred dollars a head to come to love field for day-long sessions that oil down to this have fun and be nice, especially to employ ease as with many of southwest airline competitors, though, not everyone seems to grasp that simple message at the end of today's session, Kelleher walks up to an executive from Austria to thank him for attending great. Having you here today. When you bring anything you learn back to your company, the executive answers in Swiss German accent. Yeah, going to tell everybody is a half to do the Macarena every day. Well, actually, I think you might miss the point. He might have, but others have gotten the southwest message loud and clear today. Both American and south west still sail the skies there. Fierce competition has both toughened and change them. Southwest has been profitable every year since nineteen seventy three and its business model is mimicked across the globe. American fought several bruising union revolts before going bankrupt and absorbing the failing US Airways in twenty thirteen financially they're both doing quite well. Thank you. American has forty three billion dollars in annual revenues, southwest as twenty one billion. Tober thirteenth twenty fourteen. Love field employees are celebrating Southwest's two year PR battle that ended with local politicians brokering a compromise that free southwest from the Wright amendment. That's the law that kept the Texas airline from flying freely beyond Texas and its contiguous states. Kilgore arrange your sedans team known for the cowboy hats, white boots. High kicks are performing to a rendition of Gary decarlo. So. They're dressed in outfits. Reminiscent of the nineteen seventy-one orange, hot pants, gogo boots, hostess, look, Sir. Richard Branson of virgin America's in the house and band call the why not place outside the terminal banner reads goodbye right amendment. Hello America. Southwest fought hard and long to fly out of love field instead of DFW, and it struggled almost as long to be able to fly from love field to anywhere in America, like other airlines. Now for the first time in its history, Southwest Airlines is finally free to move about the country. The from wondering, this is business wars. Enjoyed this episode. Please subscribe on apple podcasts, Spotify, Google guest Stitcher iheartradio, or where ever you listen to podcasts, you'll find a link on the episode notes, all you have to tap Skype over the cover art, and you'll also see some offers from our sponsors. Please support our show by supporting them, aren't, you know if you like what you heard, we'd love it. If you could give a five star rating until your friends, how to subscribe to another way to support us to answer a short survey at one dot com slash survey and don't forget to tell us what business war stories you'd like to hear and quick note about the conversations you've been hearing. We can't know exactly what was said, but this dialogue is based on best research, your host, David Brown. Does it window wrote this story, Karen low is our senior producer and editor, Ginny lowers our producer. Sound design by bay area sound. Our executive producer is Marshall Louis created by earn on lupus. Four wondering.

Southwest Airlines Bob Crandall Southwest CEO America herb Kelleher American Airlines Kelleher United States executive apple David Brown San Antonio Mr. Keller United Texas Dallas Washington
Live from Austin!

Motley Fool Money

40:16 min | 1 year ago

Live from Austin!

"Thanks to Airbnb for sponsoring this week's motley fool money. Whether you're looking for some side cash or a steady income hosting on Airbnb might just be the best investment. You haven't made yet? Go to Airbnb dot com slash fool to start hosting and learn about a one hundred dollars Amazon gift card offer for our dozens of listeners terms and conditions apply. Everybody needs money. That's why they call it. Mine. Robe pool. Global headquarters. This is motley fool money. That's the Monaco money radio show on Chris hill. Joining me this week senior analyst Jason Moser and Andy cross thanks for being here. Guys. We're coming to you from Austin, Texas. We're here for an investing conference. We are not in the studio we're on the outskirts of a bar here at the hotel, and we actually have a live audience in front of us. Going out dozens of listeners joining us. We've got the latest headlines from Wall Street, we've got a very special interview with the late great. Herb Kelleher there. We're going to bring to you. And as always will give an inside look at the stocks on our radar. But since the theme of this conference is global investing. Let's start with a couple of international brands fourth quarter results from KADO LeBron sent the stock up twenty percent a dominant e commerce player in Latin America McConnell, Libro shares hitting a new all-time high this week Jason. Yeah. I mean, this was really a strong core. But virtually every metric I mean, they basically at this point own the Latin America, the ecommerce market, and we've talked about this in the lobby here. After some of our conversations today, it's it's hard to figure how Amazon could come in here. One day and take share for Marcado lever at this point. Because not only had they developed this robust e commerce platform, but really the Mocatta pay go part of the business. Their payments part of the business has grown to be something. That's. Just astounding. I mean, we talk about war on cash investments Mocatta Lieber certainly is worth putting at the top of the list there. I mean, total payment volume through that platform surpassed five billion dollars for the first time ever. So I mean, this is not just an ecommerce play. This is a payments play. Again. I don't know how competitor comes in there and really take share from them at this point. So when you look at getting some global exposure to e commerce to tech, fintech all that stuff more KADO. Lebron just seems like a no brainer. Well, and as tough as the Latin American market has had it in the economy is down there continue to to struggle and how tough go at it. It's nice as seamer kind of libra have some actual men behind it now. Yeah. I mean, really the other part of this puzzle that I think is gonna play on their favor over many years to come really it's the emergence of the middle class in Latin America, generally, and that is a middle class that is continuing to grow more more consumers having more purchasing power that will definitely play in America to LeBron financials as well. You really? Think Amazon is unable to disrupt this business. I have a hard time believing. They could go in there and take away share at this point. I mean, you you have a point where businesses get in and establish a position in really, I think it's not only the ecommerce platform, but it's that payments part. That's a really sticky aspect of any business, and it's just going to be difficult for any company to get in there and really take share. You know, I'm kind of disappointed that Amazon didn't go in there and tried to acquire them at some point earlier in the game. But they want to do that. Now, they're going to have to pay up for booking holdings is the parent company of Priceline booking dot com. Shares falling eleven percent on Thursday after fourth quarter results came in with lowered guidance for twenty nineteen help me out here and isn't booking holdings. Aren't they typically pretty conservative with their guns? Yeah. They are Chris. I mean, it was actually a pretty good quarter revenue was up sixteen percent. Maybe a little bit light. It was up twenty one percent in constant currency when you have put into effect, the stronger dollar earnings per share blew the estimates. Twenty two dollars and forty nine cents that was up. Thirty three percent cash. Flow free cash flow was up twelve percent. So overall, I think it was a pretty good quarter travel. Bookings were up nine percent. That was maybe a little bit lighter to the the concern that I think investors saw and you we saw it in the stock price. But some of the guidance was was a little bit lower earnings at ten ninety two eleven dollars and twenty cents a little bit below estimates. There's a lot of foreign currency exposure with booking eighty percent of its sales. Don't internationally the strong dollar not helping that's starting to have a little bit of impact hotel room nights. Book estimate for the quarter up six to eight percent in total gross bookings five to seven percent. So a little bit of a deceleration some of the growth has some investors concerned one of the things we've talked about recently on the show is share buybacks and one thing that caught my eye in this report is you look at twenty eight team booking holdings spent about six billion dollars on share buybacks that's much more than they've done in years past. This is a management team that has done a great job of growing the business. Is it safe to assume we trust them with that type of capital allocation because I'm a little surprised they went that high. I think so I mean, the the amount of cash they generate in this consistency in the earnings. They have and some of the new initiatives they're making. I think warrants it to give them the benefit of the doubt to be able to invest that capital for shareholders. I know Jason I and you have talked a lot about the concerns about some share buybacks, but for this business and considering how they can invest in where they continue to invest it into their marketing spend and get more efficient with that. I think looking at the cash they can generate warrants to be able to buy back stock and a pretty good prices. And we put those share buybacks under a microscope and a lot of companies. I think it was last week. We were given stance dot com a little bit of hard time. Because what they were doing was seemed borderline criminal at one point. I mean at least with booking dot com. You look at that share count over time it is coming down. So it'd be one thing if that's your county. Was going up that was that was something we were holding against stamps dot com last last week. But at least we putting dot com. Those that share count is coming down that is the idea with share repurchases. Make those fewer shares more valuable over time. You know, one interesting point they introduced this quarter was that the bookings through their alternative properties. So these are things that compete with like the Airbnb is forty percent of active booking dot com. Customers have booked property in alternative property in two thousand eighteen so your booking hotels through booking dot com. And you actually are also booking alternative property. Like a home rental through booking dot com. That's his fourth quarter profit and revenue came in higher than expected. Shares up twenty percent this week. I get a Jason. 'cause I mean, everything was up for users were up sellers were kind of week that makes you want to say, hey, now, I mean, we talked a lot about today. Eight minute conversations around the tables here with all of our members. It was just really great conversation there. But when you look at what this business has done. I mean, this was. Another great core of the metrics that matter are all headed in the right direction. Active sellers are up buyers are up the gross merchandise sales grew of twenty two percent to one point two billion dollars. And they throw it a pretty interesting statistic there to the nineteen thousand dollars in gross merchandise sales per minute on cyber Monday. So clearly, they're doing something. Right. And I think a lot of it really is they established themselves as that brand for that community that niche in crafts and art and whatnot. I mean, this really is the place to go in this metric, we talk a lot about with Wayfair that repeat purchase metric in. It. Looks like Oetzi is doing the same thing. They talk about habitual buyers. And those are buyers who spend two hundred dollars or more over the course of the year and have made purchases on six or more days in the last twelve months, that's their most important biometric. And it's up a twenty one point seven percent for the quarter. That is just a very profitable part of the business and again worth noting. It is profitable the ringing in a lot of money. I held Josh Silverman. The CEO as the CEO of the year from me on our review show. If you remember at the end of two thousand eighteen and it looks like he's just keeping going into two thousand nineteen who is the Pepsi to their coq because there are a lot of places to buy stuff online. But in terms of the niche that Oetzi has carved out I can't name who it is. Well, so I think Amazon really tried to go in there and give them a run for their money at one point. And really that didn't gain any traction. But an interesting topic that came up and some of our conversations today, it was about folks who maybe are selling on Oetzi, and perhaps get a little bit too big for that platform, and they're moving over onto shop FIS platform, another company we love here at the full. So I think shop if is a business out there that can certainly give them a run for their money. They do similar things. But there's definitely there's a brand equity there with that see that certainly gives them a little bit of a leg up square continues to do its part in the war on cash squares holiday quarter results. Look good. Andy Thursday was one of those weird. Days that makes me glad I'm not a day traitor. I mean, this the stock was down pretty big pre market because of the guidance and by the end of the day square was back up in positive territory. Also squares is one of those businesses that continues to deliver me the gross payment volume was up twenty three billion was up twenty eight percent just revenue at four hundred and sixty four million up sixty four percent that's a slight deceleration from last quarter, but still pretty exceptional full-sized of that business adjusted EBITDA operating profits up almost double to eighty one million in on the earnings per share up seventy five percent. So Jack Dorsey owns fourteen and a half percent of the stock. Talking about building out the square ecosystem, which is not just the payment readers, but their cash app and their square car, which is partner with MasterCard. Twenty-five percent of US households are now under banked or not Bank. So the square card and these different solutions square continues to build is good for shareholders good for clients. And you've seen that with the performance that they continue to deliver. I'm really glad you mentioned that word under banked because I think that is the most important word when it comes to companies like square in pay pal. And I think it's easy for folks who have a banking relationship or just used to that. There is a big part of the population out there that is under banked or unbagged at all in in square and pay pallor developing solutions for those of folks in that is a big market opportunity. That's out there. Why do you think we saw what we saw with the stock because I mean, Jack Dorsey is CEO with a lot of experience square is not the new kid on the block anymore. And part of me wonders if there's just on some level in at least some parts of Wall Street, a fundamental misunderstanding of what this businesses. I think there's a lot to digest with their earnings reports and seeing where they're going into the square capital side of the business and more business lending that definitely introduces some uncertainty some risk that maybe you wouldn't have seen before. Again. It's really difficult to. Count for the day to day maga- nations of the market and to your point. That's why we don't date and new CFO onboard. But the full year EPS or full year sales guy ends up forty percents a deceleration from the other Grosso. Maybe the headline numbers not looking so good. But the more you hear from Jack Dorsey, you continue to believe in the square story coming up, we are fans of beer, and we are fans of breakfast cereal. We're just not sure we're fans of the latest culinary innovation in the craft beer industry. Details coming up stare at here. You're listening to motley fool months. As always people on the program may have interest in the stocks. They talk about on the motley fool may have formal recommendations for or against Saddam buy or sell stocks based solely on what you here. Welcome back to motley. Fool money coming to you live from Austin, Texas in front of a live audience Priscilla. Here with Jason Moser. Andy cross Tele doc ended the fiscal year, not with a bang, but a whimper fourth quarter results. Look pretty good. But guidance was weaker than Wall Street was hoping for Tele doc selling off on Thursday. And Jason I mean, you look at the stock and the last time tell dog was at this level three weeks ago. I was going to say it's plummeted to levels not seen since the beginning of the month. Listen, I mean, if you're a Tele investor, and I am, and I hope a lot of you out. There are two I think you should be very happy with the way, this business is progressing. This was a strong quarter. And it was a strong year by virtually see what I did there. Virtually virtually every metric actually, they exceeded guidance. And a lot of cases on sales in visits. I think the market reaction initially was to just a smidge light on revenue guidance for two thousand nineteen I've told you how I feel about the expectations game. Chris I really don't care about it. And it was really a wild ride this stock because right after that release came out. I mean, the stock sold off close to twenty percent and after hours finished up down about six six and a half percent for the day. I think people kinda came to their senses. I mean, listen, this is a business that is doing all the right things. Total revenue grew fifty nine percent for the core organic revenue was up thirty three percent. And we know there've been some acquisitions to grow their offering to become more of a a comprehensive offering so to speak. They're actually working on a an access to cross-border solution. So that it will be a United States and Canada healthcare platform, and that's something that really doesn't exist in telemedicine sector. And then we can't forget about the Medicare Advantage twenty. Plan. There's going to be twenty million or so additional patients that will open up to telemedicine services via Medicare Advantage, and that's going to grow, you know, the potential opportunity for them to bring more members into their model. And also even just feel only a customers as well. So we seen by in from the regulatory side, telemedicine is real it's happening. And I think the Teluk is one of the companies that's leading the way I was going to say if they can open up to other countries doesn't that? I mean, the upside is nearly limit. Well, it is a big world out there in access to healthcare is something that people need, and certainly the internet has disrupted virtually everything else in our lives in having used tell doc services before it's a great first step in initiating a doctor's visit if you don't have to go to the office. It's really nice not to go. If you can get everything taken care of with a little video chat on your phone. Our Email address is radio at full dot com. You can also follow the show on Twitter hit us up with a question. We actually got a question on Twitter about J AB. Holdings, which is the private company that has just been gobbling up all manner of restaurants and coffee chains over the last few years, including Pete's coffee asking, hey, I if J B holdings is considering spinning off the coffee properties into an IPO, and reportedly they are is that something you'd be interested in. I'd certainly be interested Andy and looking at the one. Yeah, I definitely would be this is a very lar-. I think it's the second largest roaster coffee roaster in the world behind Nestle retailer at least they have about twelve percent of the market. According to the economists some very big brands Curie Dr Pepper, which may be part of this. We don't know if Pinero will be part of this or not. So it's a bees a very well run private equity firm. They've been is you mentioned Chris gobbling up lots of different properties. So we'll be very interested to look at the s one and think about this as a company that we want to invest in. Yeah. No question. I mean, you look at coffee is good business. If you have a company that has a portfolio of coffee offerings. I mean, I can't see why we wouldn't want to at least did again a little bit further as we've seen with others. I mean, Jay has got property that they've got the package goods, and they've got the retail locations. Yeah. And I mean, the whole thing with that Curie acquisition. I mean, really bringing a lot of great coffee into the home in a simple fashion. I mean, that's that's something you're going to find a lot of those Keurigs out there installed all over the world. I think it translates maybe a little bit better than that. Sodastream because you don't have to worry about replacing cartridges. You know, the plenty of opportunity out there. I will say I'm a very loyal and Espresso user, though. So they're competing Reagan's Espresso. No, angry uncle Joe. He says a lot of good things about that and Espresso. He's having me around the world. It's still unless week show. We talked about Boston beer company the parent company of Samuel Adams. They've been crushing lately in part because of limited edition Bruce to company has been producing. So maybe we can blame. Boston beer for this next story this weekend. Smart mouth beer, a brewery based in Virginia is unveiling Saturday morning marshmallow a beer that tastes like lucky charms breakfast cereal. The company says the beer is quote made with pounds of marshmallows some of which we hosted along with tropical, fruity, calypso, hops. The result is magically delicious not in one hundred years fruity for me, man. I mean, listen, let's take one for the team. You're right. I mean, this is that boots on the ground market research that we're known for the selfless act of getting out there for all. All of our subscribers or members in really giving them that first hand account of how that might be less. It's beer, it's cereal. I mean, you got what's wrong with put them together? When we get back to Virginia. You'll let me know how that goes. Let me tell you something really quick here in folks will appreciate this. My wife put together a six pack from the other day from the store and included in their one bottle of shiner s'mores beer. And now, I don't know of anyone out here is ever heard of that. But this was the first time I tried it in. I gotta say it was actually pretty good that toasty sort of marshmallow fleet. I felt like it was around a campfire, Chris let's get to the stocks on our radar this week. Our man, Dan, boy does not behind the glass. He's here at the table with us be more excited because he's got a brand new soundboard complete with sound effects. That's right. Chris I do and I've only I've been told I can only use one. So I'm gonna use it judiciously. Okay. Jason your I what's stock is on your radio this week. Well, I tell you everyone out there today. You inspired me to go with the selection here. BJ's wholesale club, ticker is Bj. They have. Earnings coming out next Wednesday. We had a lot of great conversations today about the power of membership models and Amazon at Costco, really took most of those conversations. But BJ's is a company that went public again here recently, and you know, it's an east coast concept mostly but still relatively small one. And I've you know, I've been to a BJ's before back. We lived in Georgia. I think this could be something we need to take a closer look at ten. Jason do you think the guy with the jackhammer across the street while we were recording was having any fun. It sounded like he was having a lot of fun. Thank you Jason. Andy real quick. What are you looking at Austin zone? Chew. As reports. Fourth quarters on March seven stock has really been a bad taste and enchilada over the past year. So I'm looking for some growth margins under pressure from the cost side with labour costs increasing encompass ails at zero to one percent. So looking for some love for chew as next week. Dan. I love it does thanks for being here. If there was a mount Rushmore of business leaders from Texas Southwest Airlines co founder herb Keller. Her would be on it for sure up next conversation between Mr. Kelleher and motley fool CEO, Tom Gardner. Stay right here. This is Molly full money. All right before we get to Tom gardeners interview with herb Kelleher quick shot to Airbnb. Whether you're looking for some side cash or steady income hosting on Airbnb might just be the best investment. You haven't made yet worried about your property. Airbnb offers a host guarantee that helps protect your property. In the unlikely event that something goes wrong. It's free to list, your home, and you're the boss when you host on Airbnb host when you want how you want list one bedroom or the entire place. It's all up to you on this show. We talked about generating income with stocks about generating a little extra income with your place. You can use that income to pay bills. Save up for retirement, you could use it to fund travel and that way you make money while you're traveling. That's something that Airbnb hosts often do for our dozens of listeners go to Airbnb dot com slash fool to start hosting and you'll receive a one hundred dollars Amazon gift card if you generate five hundred dollars in booking value by may thirty. With terms and conditions apply. Again, receive a one hundred dollars Amazon gift card if you generate five hundred dollars in booking value by may thirtieth by going to Airbnb that's eight I are BNB dot com slash fool and start hosting. Welcome back, the motley fool money. I'm Chris hill. Earlier this year for Kelleher the legendary co founder of Southwest Airlines died at the age of eighty seven he defied the odds by creating an airline that produced market crushing returns for investors in two thousand seventeen motley fool co founder Tom Gardner, sat down with color, her to talk about his company's unique culture, the business of airlines and a lot more. Tom started by asking Kelleher how it all started. Her what happened on March twelfth of nineteen thirty one. It was a it was a boon day for the entire globe. Tom if I do say, so myself because I highly intelligent, really visionary, and very handsome baby was born and named herb who is Harry Kellar her my father, and what was his work and life. Well, he he was the. The plant superintendent for the Campbell Soup company and Camden, New Jersey, and then it became the general manager of the Campbell Soup company. And they had only one plan at that time. And so that was his occupation up until his death. And who is Ruth more my mother, and what can you tell us about Ruth? Well, she she was working at the Campbell Soup company. This is where she met my father. And after our family was blow the bar beginning of World War Two, Tom. One of my brothers was killed early in nineteen forty two and another one off in the service, and my father died early nineteen forty three and my other sister became an expediter for RCA. You know, it was involved in war work and said like my mother, and I were there alone from sixty to two was in the year and a half two years, and she was just fabulous because she covered everything with me ethics. The way you should treat people business. We used to sit up even when I was ten and twelve and talk until three or four in the morning, and she was absolutely fantastic in that respect because he was not only a nurturing mother, but you also said my mind, so the early stages of the definition of southwest strategy. I do wonder when you talk about your mother, and what she what she taught you around the dinner table or right into the wee hours of the morning about respecting other people about and and even the energy of or the dynamic of flying shouldn't just be for people who are wealthy. It should be everyone the gala -tarian nature. She was very Galateri in in that respect. She was a teacher because she told me that that I should not necessarily pay obeisance to position or title because. She said pay attention to the individual the individual may have a grand position or title, but have feet of clay do know, which I think all of us has to agree can be the case. And she also encouraged me the read very widely and unusually adult books, you know, for someone my age, and she stimulated by curiosity and a whole lot of things that probably never would have gotten into and curiosity. I think is one of the great things that could be very very helpful to you. Because you're always looking for something different. And how it might fit in you know, to what you're doing. So I've never adhered to the philosophy that curiosity killed the cat. And I look at it as reality informed. The cats. I think she played a big role in that respect. And also the political aspects of it, very helpful having that experience fighting these battles in the congress and in the Texas legislature. Why do so many airlines go bankrupt. And why has Southwest Airlines never laid off a single employee. I mean, those are they're they're so extremely at polar. Opposites? I mean, really the industry we know is created very little economic value in aggregate going back to its inception. For Southwest Airlines has created has been well, certainly during your time. It was the best performing stock on the S and P five hundred and since then it's been a wonderful stock as well all the way through no layoffs. Why I mean for a for a lay lay person that's sitting out there saying, I I have no idea why this airlines successful and all the other ones continually failed went through banks. She came back went bankrupt again and some of them three times. Well, first of all, and I think this has something to do with the history and learning something about history. I was well aware that the airline industry was very difficult industry as you pointed out at one point it had a net loss from its inception. Which means it's fairly difficult. You know, fairly scary. And I said, you know, you hear about regression to me, and I'm not Kwan without as a formula. But how long is it going to take the regress is it five years twenty five years thirty eight years? And so what we're going to do is. We are always going to be very very strong thumb the balance sheet standpoint, number one, we've one time for a long time with the only airline has an investment grade rating long financial community, we're going to have. Lots of liquidity. And my mantra was we want to manage in good times. So we do well in bad times. And there you get into the no third thorough policy. Because if you if you just hire a bunch of people willy nilly doing good times, guess what you're doing. You're firing him doing bad times. So we always well set up to ride through the bad times and market. Share was not our focus size in of itself is unimportant. I would rather have four percent of the market and be profitable. Then have twenty four percent of the market and lose money. So we're not gonna talk about market share at all. It was ver- both. I don't know if you've read Peter Teal's books era to one or know about Peter Thiel, did you know about them? And yeah, he said basically from from an investor standpoint when people pitch companies to them when they talk about how. Large their market is. And how he's he said I want to know that smallest piece that you're going to dominate off of that exactly that the opportunity to grow. Exactly. So the other airlines were doing that they were trying to get as many their war Ethridge who had the most airplanes, and who get the most route from the C B, and and that sort of thing and we've chewed all. And we opened a lot of secondary airports. I've lied airports and people initially said, oh, you'll never make a success out of the satellite airport while there's hobby. There's love you know, I can run through about five or six more of them. And of course, they were much more efficient to operate Fum. No backups. They were a lot closer and more convenient for an awful lot of awful lot of people. And so we did things unconventionally that way. And we tried to keep our work rules, very simple to promote the efficiency of. Their line and ton of you know, operated on the philosophy airplanes don't make money on the ground. They only make money in the air. Passengers don't pay just to sit them they pay the fly. So we very high utilization productivity. Well, it'd be a gap in fair between you and the competitor at any point in history. I mean, you could name one today or go twenty five years and say we flew from point a two point be for acts, and they did it for young extra. What? We have some of those some of those contracts are really amazing. Do you have time for one that's kind of please? It's kind of like a burlesque. We. Plenty of time. We went into BWI right and Ulysses air was the leading carrier there. And the round trip there to Cleveland from BWI. Was like, I don't know. Three hundred and forty dollars or something like that. And we used to fifty six dollars. You know, that's a considerable drop. And then. US air found that we had a friends fly free program twenty four fifty. They matched that that's right, then on friends fly free basis. Okay. We went to nineteen dollars between BWI in Cleveland. So that's a pretty big saving, you know, nineteen dollars instead of three hundred forty nine and the traffic increased by one thousand five hundred percent in the first year of service. That's an exaggeration. But most markets we went into in clarity of flight increased enormously. And normally I thought one hundred percent two hundred percents three hundred percent within a year. So presumably some of the ways that you hold those costs down for for passengers is fishy, right? Hard work. Yes of everyone who's coming to work, exactly. Probably not the highest salaries in in the in the industry. I don't know. Whether that's not you can tell me, but you know, how how can you have cost containment and balance sheet management and a great corporate culture. I mean, those those things we see that we think there's a big tension there. And why isn't there? Adila friend of mine recently wrote a paper that he sent to me. And and entity said. Corporations are always coming to the tyranny of no vol than the genius of. Yes. And what he was pointing out is that people sit down and say. Well, we can even have low costs and lousy customer service. Everything's great customer service and high costs, and we said, no. You can have low costs and great customer service. And guess what? We're not offering you less for less fair. We're offering you more for less there. And part of that. Of course, was our culture, first of all the warriors spirit of our employees who pitched in and every battle. Secondly, the fun and warmth and hospitality that are people provided to our passengers. And Thirdly, the kind of cultures it was upbeat. We're we didn't ask people to change and become robots or Thomas don's when they came to work. We kept telling him look we hired you because you're you. Did anyone take that too far? Well, what had? Yeah, I may heard. Yeah, I'm not gonna wear close to that. Well, that's. You you put your finger on our usual. We had somebody who did something extraordinary. We didn't put in new rules for -taining to the whole company or one of its departments. We just sat down with them in the visually and talk to them and said, you cannot do that. But you know, if every time there's a sort of anecdotal incident on new a new policy if you put in a new policy, you're gradually strangling yourself with bureaucracy. As a matter of fact, when I saw a ticket agent in San Antonio after I became CEO trying to answer customers question by going through these two loose leaf manuals. You know, looking for page Seventy-three capital a small. Know, we burn them we Barnum and what we said was. We have a substitute. It's called guidelines for leaders. And the first sentence was his just guidelines feel free to break them. We were unleashing our people to be themselves with the customer Colleen Barrett. Of course, play a great role in that. And she called it her flexibility policy. And basically, she was saying, look, you know, we work like crazy to hire the right people with the right attitudes. Positive, you know, generous Kerry. Yeah. And so just unleashing. Coming up Kelleher reflects on the principles of leadership. Stay right here. This is not the full money. Welcome back, the motley fool money on Chris hill. Let's get back to Tom garners interview with the late great. Herb kelleher. If you had let's say two or three leadership principles if you had to boil them down to two or three maybe you've just sort of touched on one of them. But I hate to just try and get a little soundbite. But what would be your top two or three principals as a leader? I would say that. Number one. You have to. Look out for the wellbeing of others more than you do for your own. Number two. That you have to really rejoice in your people and their accomplishments and praised them and recognize them all the time for what they what they have the chief and. The humble, I think. The humble never think you've done something. So great, you know, that now near the top of the pyramid. Because that's when the pyramid starts to collapse in useless down on your face. Never be complacent. About two or three principles of business strategy that might apply more broadly than just the airline industry for an entrepreneur or CEO that's looking at their game plan, and it maybe is overlooked the responsibility of having a strong balance sheet so that you can be resilient down period. Or so maybe two or three strategic principles will first of all if one of your principles is that you're not gonna furlough. That in and of itself is an incentive to stay lean even when times are really good. You know, it's a discipline and valuable one I think number two. Particularly with respect a young entrepreneurs, including myself, they're optimists, Tom. And I think and that optimism is needed. You know to be an entrepreneur, you're one I ought to be interviewing you, but. Sometimes you you you don't realize. How long it's gonna take. And how much capitalists gonna take bring it to realization? And so you don't raise enough money at the beginning. And sometimes with the young people I have found representing young people who wanna start up their own businesses. I found that they think that just having the idea. Is all they have to do you tell there's a lot of sweat goes into it. Do you just tell them announce your idea suddenly golden going start raining down from heaven like a man on on you? And there's a hell of a lot of lonely work to do to make it come to pass. And and to be successful. But the thing that I have always emphasized is culture because I think that is the most powerful competitive weapon that you can have because it's intangible, it's spiritual. You can't buy it. You know, other airlines could by airplanes they can lease space. But if they don't have the kind of out thowing participated, happy devoted culture that you have you're going to have the age on. I was told our people that the intangibles are more important than the changeable. Is there a single story? That comes to you right now. And maybe not across all south of this history about the the employees or team mate of yours at Southwest Airlines that did something remarkable for somebody else on their team or for one of your passengers or well, I'll tell you what I've got several stores just jumped into my mind. There are thousands of them. But these will serve as you know, exemplars what's expected what you asked and one of them is that. Lady had a flat tire in the parking lot at a terminal air terminal, and I was stationed manager stops and says let me change that tire for you. And she said, well, I don't think you should because you know, I didn't fly on Southwest Airlines that doesn't make any difference. I just want to help you change. No matter who you flew on. And we honor people for the great things they do outside southwest Dylan's. Not just inside great things. They do in society in general last question talked about being found her so and the amount of number of hours of sleep. You've got on average the decades that you put into it. I know that you don't really have probably any regrets. But why don't you you've given so much of your life to one organization? Do you have any sense of gosh, I wonder if I if I take in five years and gone and done that my life have this. So. How do you view your commitment ship sailing on for regrets whatsoever? Because if a father has a daughter or son, I believe that father is going to commit himself to a single ship for as long as that ship is a float. And so I've always said, you know, I'm so fortunate because my advocation is simultaneously my vocation. So there's no challenges. No tension. There's no hostility between the two. I'm doing what I love to do for company. I love and help to create and for people that I adore and what could be more rewarding more enjoyable than that I've referred to our people as my fountain of youth. I said, you know, punchy daily owned was in the wrong place looking for the fountain of youth in Florida. He should have come to work for Southwest Airlines. That's where you find your fountain of youth film are people. You can watch Tom's entire interview. With herb Kelleher on the motley fool's channel on YouTube. Just go to you. Youtube dot com slash the motley fool that's going to do it for this week's edition motley fool money shows engineered by Dan Boyd, and Steve ROY tow. Our producers macrey are I'm Chris health. Thanks for listening. We'll see you next week.

Jason Moser Airbnb Amazon Herb Kelleher Southwest Airlines Tom Gardner motley Chris Chris hill CEO United States Texas BJ Dan Boyd Austin Andy Jack Dorsey Latin America Lebron
1341 Jim Glidewell Celebrates 50 Years of Affordable Dentistry : Dentistry Uncensored with Howard Farran

Dentistry Uncensored with Howard Farran

1:33:06 hr | 9 months ago

1341 Jim Glidewell Celebrates 50 Years of Affordable Dentistry : Dentistry Uncensored with Howard Farran

"Patients family finances. You've got a lot on your plate. Get the tools you need to keep it. All balanced with members only resources and discounts from the American Dental Association Association. Joined today at eight dot org slash join now It is just a huge honor for me today to be podcasts. Interviewing the largest legend in Dentistry Industry James Are Glide willed. Him going well is just truly amazing. I gotTa Tell You I always thought of you as herb Kelleher who passed away last year and so forth salvos joins when I started lecturing airlines it was for rich people and the planes were empty and everybody was dressed nicely and it was a rich Man's game and herb Kelleher said you know I'm GonNa keep one eye on the customer SMER and one iron cost and I'M GONNA use my brain to drive down costs until grandma has the freedom to afford to fly and when I came out of school not to throw anybody under the bus but but when I started taking continue education I started I paint institute and they one is this lecture and loved. I love the guy and I I understand Marcus Mutation mercedes-benz all stuffy. He talked about how you just want to focus on a patient's and earned Becker gave this whole presentation tation. About what a a pace was. I'm thinking ham from Kansas. I don't have one cousin. NEPHEWS SISTER MOM. None of us made the eighty. He lives the bill is we were all C. B. S.. Quist and I kind of got this feeling that American dentistry. He was trying to make stuff for the rich people. And that's not what America's Vin Henry Ford said if you made cars for the classes you're you're going to be poor and live with the masses. He says America's about making stuff to the masses. And you were just hell bent on keeping in your eye on cost so the average working man could save his tooth and so for us. It was love at first sight. Oh though is speaking of him before before you know he always says it's. It's not what you can get for a dollar but what you can give for a dollar in other words you want to give the most value for dollar always and I've I've always believed in that. And then when I found out that only maybe fifty percent of the American public kind of a re-lead visit a dentist. I says why is that well. It's cost prohibitive in. So how can we enlarge that marketplace. That's what I've always done. In fact I think all of my employees will tell you that every day I come to work is how do I to drive down the cost of what we do. And we've been able to drive down cost immeasurably because we always been. I'M NOT GONNA say low cost I always use is a term. Hey we're kind of a Walmart and my employees always fighting and he says no we're costco you learn kind of a classic didn't call Costco and I said maybe so but the the real thing is so we're going to keep dropping the prices on products as we get more and more efficient at producing them. Because we're not really trying to put money in our pocket we're trying into lower the cost of dentistry so all patients more patients can afford dentistry. And that's really the nutshell Chinese sat down Henry Ford's not what you can get for dollars Ring Gifford. The only other person ever heard say that my whole life was Ken Austin of attack who passed away last year and his wife. Joanne and He he was a big henry. Ford the what he liked about Henry. Ford is that if you're driving a Model T.. And it broke down. You could go find a twenty year old model t in somebody's he's creek and ditch and the same part would word interchangeable was. He was so mostly motivated. Ada chairs that the the whole chair only once did he have to change the internal structure and that was because as Americans got bigger and bigger and heavier and heavier. You lean back and fall over over so I had to put a much bigger base But he he was like you a detail for manufacturing just totally manufacturing. But I want I want you to start with the original story. You're born in Vegas. I was born in born in Las Vegas By four years old. My father was having a hard time supporting my assist knife so he sent me to Kentucky with my grandparents lived on subsistence farm in southern Kentucky. And I went to school and the farm where you grow your own vegetables out back and you have to pigs. Usually you slaughter to pigs. Never smoke house no indoor plumbing and no water no electricity Kristie. This is back in nineteen fifty through fifty five TV. You had not kicked electric power up into the southern part of Kentucky I was end and until nineteen fifty seven. I've the Tennessee Valley Tennessee Valley Authority Got The power up here about nineteen fifty seven but we had no electricity. We just had kerosene. I've seen lamps and There was some kind of a little device used to crank on week to get a radio to work so we can hear Amos and Andy on the radio or something and it was really quite You know I think that when you're a kid you think you're well off. We didn't have a car like that but I felt like we were fine. We had a little tobacco subsidy which everybody in the south paths and so we had just a little bit of money. But you know by the time I was ten years old. I returned to Las Vegas where I was born and Continued continued on through regular school and so it was kind of a simple upbringing. I I was a terrible student in school. I mean I was. I wasn't a bottle of my class but I was three twenty Ed three thirty one Las Vegas Vice School three twenty three thirty nine. I always regret that I worked so hard. I should've I should've worked so hard. It could have been three thirty one eh but So at that point right after high school I just turned eighteen same time and I joined the navy and I went to Vietnam basically came back in July nineteen sixty five with a whole new outlook on life. You know the military in Vietnam had a chance to kind of shape shape somewhat and so I went and I didn't have a lot of parentage. My parents were gone most all the time and they kinda raised myself. My father was a railroad. The gone three days at a time and my mother was an accomplished gambler and whatnot Las Vegas. I didn't see her very often. It my stepmother but nice lady so coming back from Vietnam I I went to work for Delta and Delta Airlines and wrap fuelling airplanes and then I went to to become an insurance agent. When I had the day I turned twenty one? I took the test became an insurance agent and then within about a month or something I sold at insurance policy to a dental technician edition named REX trainer. Who will always be my heart high school buddy and he told me all about what he was doing and I just thought it? Okay can honest business something you make with your hands and you get paid for it you know and I did really like contracts. I didn't want signing contracts. which was was going to make a living signing contracts which was the insurance business so I right away looked at and I was able to go to Orange Coast College in California here in Costa Mesa on the Gi Bill? So I got one hundred seventy five dollars a month to to go to school. Got A job at sears roebuck. Selling suits worked my way through school for about a year and then I got a job job in dental APP for a few months went to work for a dentist named Bill Stanley. In in Orange we were in Santa Ana family family. Bill Stanley was a dentist. Kid named Stanley a young Guy No there's a famous Stanley. Oh Yeah Oh yeah I know what you mean. No not a golfer your cows nail buffer bill was a tough run run-up guy. He was from contingency is he had the same background. I did when I met him. I just love the guy and I worked for him for about a year and a half but he works way through dental school. USC Dental technician so he really taught me the business. Even I went to a school I was at school. I went to the school. They they call. No it's not. It closed ten years later. Maybe there was any jobs for technicians. You know you go to school you get out and you still. You can find a job so they finally they realize working so then bill Tommy everything I know. And then when they came to me and he said by the way we've got to get out of here but I haven't been able. Oh the pay the rent and I said well how much time we got. Oh Ten fifteen minutes so that brings us where we are today. It's fifty fifty years of being business because the bill said we gotta go is where we go and bill. Bill says. There's no we in this. I'm going to La to get a job. And I don't know where or you're going so I was kind of throwing the street. He's a different of my by the way we are absolutely close. Let's go back to that. That decision decision the dental schools they all added hygiene departments and goes down there. They're kind of gills and So I knew labs as in Kansas went to Creighton and Nebraska and these bridges. I've I've had a an ad in the local newspaper for Six months for a porcelain stack right. Yeah but there. They train him. What do you think of that decision? Why did dental schools at hygienist? Genesis and take away lab because when I let you in Hong Kong not very long ago they had a dental school and a crown and bridge the on there and the the dental laboratory class was. I think four hundred and the dentist class was one hundred and they didn't even have hygienist so why why did why is a dentist. Opens an office in United States. He's going to need an assistant. Unique can have a hygienist on staff but he doesn't necessarily missile have a dental technician. They always use them outside lab. So that's kind of outside their immediate focus when they're trying to run a little business everything so I I think they just we. We were able to train people to be technicians. It wasn't a very organized training method. When I went to school I was taught dental technology ceramics by a denture technician because the school hired a denture technician setup guy to teach these classes? They didn't know dental technician. Sure you teach the class lasts How do you make a crown? I don't know but I can set up a denture but anyway so I realized early on I was GonNa teach myself that I met The dentist the bill Stanley and he was she was. He knew what he was doing. He told me about your contacts on inclusion and how to trim margins do it right and so I was pretty he good at it and I also taught myself ceramics because in nineteen sixty eight sixty nine there were no real ceramicist in Orange County that maybe it was four or five became several hundred bit. There was only four five at that time so I went to a class. One time selling instruments. I just watched the skype pack. Course on I thought I can do that hole and made every mistake. There was but eventually became good at it. I love the clarity in what you said as you wanted to have an honest work on on his living in an honest work is working with your hands of here welder. You're a dentist and so much of society has gone to just sitting at a computer contracts writing and and I it scares me that we live in a country that no one wants to make anything. No one wants to work in their hands. They think they're all gonna buy it from another country that's right and that they're going to work with their hands and makes them and we're just going to give him a piece of paper and they're going to be good with that and that it looks very shortsighted. Always my Vietnam. Experience was interesting and I came home uninjured except in my head and and I had lost two or three of my high school buddies over in Vietnam not at where I was at. You know I got holiday whereas Jerry where Joe you know and and I decided that they didn't have the opportunities going forward that I was GonNa have that I would work on their behalf half hard to understand how my brain works like an emotional about it sometimes. Hard to talk about but they were here Ernie more and yet I was so why not work as hard as I possibly can even today as I sit here I'm seventy four years. Old Fifty Years started my company. Twenty four upset fifty years. Nothing I'm seventy. Four could equip many years ago so had nothing to do with money. I remember my commitment to the people. Oh and it didn't come home the commitment to employees when the first girl walked into my office. Who is an employee? I had my little dental Abbott and I needed somebody away from my class to come and help me. She walked in and I realized that I was responsible for her career that she would look to me as the boss she. I was going to have a career at my little dental lab and I thought my gosh. That's a that's a heavy burden you know. It's a heavy burden to say. I'm not responsible for her. Needs in as you can see today Pity we sit here today and I have five thousand people with needs and that's why I can't even retire now. I worry everyday. I'm GONNA screw up. You know that I'm coming to work. I've got to keep building this for them for these cameraman and everybody somebody that works in our company. I have to keep going and I worry as I mean Herb Kelleher and Mr Austin I worry I know what happened to them they they ran out of time and I am at my age too. I worry that I don't have enough time to accomplish. All the things I think need to be done for. Dentistry is your Vietnam experience. Strange also why. There's a lot of enemies. People working lied. We'll Avatar I would think so T to a degree We live by the way in an area. Around here where this minneap any F- ethnicities and we have this company sixty eight different ethnic backgrounds. When this afternoon I'll show you on the wall way but wall flags that are at a building sixty eight flags on that wall But I felt over here that they were not respected enough and I thought I would take care of that community and I've done a pretty good job. Go Thick we have. I mean several hundred Vietnamese working in the company that is amazing so I it so when I got out of. School is kind of weird because the fillings were silver fillings. Those there have mercury. The other half was silver zinc copper antenna all anti-bacterial stuff and they lasted forever and they were cheap and the gold something about the gold. Bacteria just don't like to live under you're that high energy open merge and seems to last forever I I have patients and things that have gold foils where you can see loops through them. Run Eighty me year old woman. You can see there's not gay and then this The cosmetic revolution came along and said you know those thirty eight year a long lasting. low-cost silver fillings. I want that to be replaced with cheap white cleaner plastic and that that crown I wanted to just looks looks is the only thing that matters I we will. We always called the aesthetic. Hells compromise and you would. Do you WANNA silver filling. That will last thirty eight years ears for one hundred or do you wanna white plastic tooth colored one for two hundred that will last seven years they take the White House is like so. So what What do you do you think of that someday? something will happen to that crown that will be like a gold crown to where It will you know things won't WanNa live underneath it. We Talk About Bridge like were mechanical engineer. But we're really biologist. You build a barn and you tell them every day. I want you to wash and wax to barn. You Take Care of the barn with termites. You're any toll bar gold. The album termite. They've proven their place. They they stop. Biology invasion due to crown will ever do that. They're not to the degree that we're only in Desert Konia about ten years or twelve years now and so far. We've seen Komo incredible strength. You know they just don't break But as far as biology going on there I really don't know I can't say Hem seaney negatives at all so that I can save sanity negative whatsoever. But the one thing that is a dental laboratory we came up with their Konia because always all the vendors handing us was more and more expensive white filling materials it would allow the came out from a three is a very nice product and everything but just a coping materials Copa Sixty dollars for us in released a put a dollars worth of Ceramic Co. porcelain on a crown now is that we got sixty dollars coping and They were selling like crazy. And people are buying into the concept that you need this product and all that but we laboratory listener lab fees started going up and up as vendors wanted to get more and more into bat lab the and so I decided and if you'll look around today when I show you this to this place we make almost all raw materials we make our own lithium silicate look at materials we make our own Konia here We make our own composite materials here We don't do powdered metal. We used to But we don't make powdered metal for selective laser centering of coping whatnot. But we do basically build almost everything here. We we build our own milling machines. So why do so many companies is like they. They know they're gonNa make something more expensive. Awesome for less people will and then when you look at the winners. I'm WHO's the number one airline southwest Walmart Costco number one furniture I- Kia Why is it so obvious that the person who keeps one eye on the customer and one on cost and use their brain to drive down cost so their customer can afford the freedom to buy your product? Why are guys like you what why is that? Why does everyone understand that are vertically integrated company and we know that if we can save money on materials else we can lower the invoice therefore we get more market share? And that's really what's happened at Walmart Costco in these different companies. Big Box places. The new guys coming into the dentistry and I could say even like well. Smile Club Directa Bite. There's several of them out there. That are you know Indian dismal. Brace business today. Most of them are venture capital based. You know they're backed by visa guys and they've got an exit strategy in it says we're GonNa hit our our gold mine here in two years or three years years. We've got a way out. I don't see a way out on what I do is. I don't see any way out of what we're doing. We we have to continue growing making it better all the time making it less expensive all the time and is people will tell you about me you know when they asked me what my exit strategy as I say it's death to pine box to the pine box. That's how I get out. I got no venture capital guys saying. Hey come on speed it up here and you get out of this thing. No we don't have that and we we have a continuity program going on here to company where people will back me when I'm gone But I'm a strategic planner. More than anything else anymore. Actually you won't believe this but I haven't made a crown on a few years. Yeah and I got to see patients out when I get back home. So but by being vertically integrated rated R. Costs are extremely low. I mean I I buy materials Probably thirty percent of what. It costs a lot. AWW violence vertically integrated like you sitting here at a studio today with all my the really expensive camera gear it's belongs to Glide laboratories so we're we. We are shooting own videos. We don't go out and pay somebody. You know fifteen hundred dollars an hour to come in and do video for us. We're here all the time and the reason I do that is because I know if we haven't tool wall you'll use it more often than if you rent it if you set rent things and everybody's always just rent that stuff you don't need it. It's like a real estate. We own almost all of our. You know that we have almost one million square foot a real estate we either own. It is a million we either own eighty percent of it or we risk the rest and reason and I wanted to own the real estate is because if I need to change walls in our business we all got plumbing everywhere electrical and you go into standard business office and yes the landlord or just can we drill a hole here and put a pipe in dentistry. We're putting Pike's view and Erica an air compressor. The Pentagon is one million square feet yeah. I didn't know that you'll this building. Here's Elise this building seventy five thousand ago here on the campus sinners hundred thousand one hundred thousand two hundred and fifty one thousand hundred thousand We'll show you a twenty acres over there. You're right across from the airport here that we own but it's just a lot of our stuff now. We also have offices in South America and whatnot. I eight. We're buying a building in Mexico City right now too because we really want control our destiny. We had an office in Las Vegas at my Son In law and my the daughter run up in Las Vegas and we're asking permission to throw a pipe in the Florida Afr- drain and it's not gonNA happen a yeah. We really needed it. So about another buildings are no landlords just don't want you to cut the floor or make any changes to the building and the other right to do that. All of a sudden I need that though for a Costa Rica these. You'll do your boat down there I did. I've I've never been to my office in Costa Rica. You ever been there. No I've never been to my office in Tijuana Mexico City or Columbia or Chile. I've into office in Las Vegas because my daughter's there sometimes but no I don't visit my office is because I tell them what I think. How a business should be run? But if I show up all the time they expect me to make the decisions gems coming. He'll make that decision so if I just stay away they they make decisions one question about your customer or the dentist private equity a lot of the kids that are listening right now. A quarter moon dental school. And they're all under thirty Sh- send me an email Howard a dental town dot COM com. Tell me where you're from. What country but a lot of them say they they look at old guys? I guess they say how're Jim. When you guys were little all the pharmacist on their own in business now they're all work at? CBS and Walmart. They see heartland and Pacific. They see a Bob Fantasma with Aspen. All of now coming up on one thousand offices and they say when there are age is private independent independent. Dennis gone. Are we all going to be working. At McDonnell's I have a feeling that McDonnell is what's coming Also when they got out of school you know it takes takes a while to get your maturity together on become a real journeyman at this business and I think Aspen Pacific Harlan. They all perform a pretty good service. You know I think that they've got a good training ground. You know Clear choice available so you think you think that will so how. What percent is it now? And what do you think it'd be at ten twenty thirty years To say what will it be. Fifty Years Fifty Years from is going to be. I'm GonNa think it's going to be twenty-five percent. Independent practices in small rural areas at all the citified areas are GonNa be MC MC MC dental offices. That's a person's ears. Yeah Saturday five. I think I think you're going to have some outlying areas out there where there's you know the population density is going to be less than a thousand and say Twenty Five Mile Radius. And you got to have one or two offices about area but white white Whitey Whitey you. What is your intuition? That makes you think that we work for a lot of small town dentist today. So we're looking. You wonder why these guys send us work while they don't have a dental lab because there's only two of them a hundred mile so I I want to go to chair side milling. It came out It was the the the CAD CAM and of course it was one hundred forty thousand dollar machine. I mean Patterson's always done this. I remember when I got out of school. I bought the first intro. Oh cameras a Fuji Cam. Thirty thousand dollars. It wasn't even three or four years and other people will sign up for ten thousand dollars so they came out with their their cat. Cad Cam was THEIR CAD CAM. It was one hundred forty five thousand dollars and I'd be lecturing and other countries and where are you could see him in Germany and and Asia for half that price It but at the end of the day it didn't really seem to take off. I mean the numbers icy only about twelve. Well percents. Dentists are using this Rona. Cad Cam to chair side milling so twelve percents are using. It means eight percent on and when other things things come out like when radio when radiology came out everybody got x Ray machine Some technologies really spread fast. So what is your. What was your thoughts on Cad Cam SARONIC CAD CAM and why why did it in the late seventies I had the opportunity to run into the Francois de ray from from praise and he came over here to USC and August on. I can't remember the gentleman's name out here The dentistry tied up with their going around around doing seminars. And how to use CAD CAM to machine goal crowds and If falling on deaf ears a lot because it was way way before it's time by still to this day I think press wide array as being the father of cad Cam Dentistry and he has a system out right now. I understand but I don't really know the Neyla troop live I've forgotten 'cause it's about eight or ten out there competing with cameras or whatnot and the lawsuits are flying back and forth. But so I've always been interested in and I truthfully when it first came out and says no way. This can't be done so I also said Samuel in the fax machine by the uh-huh sent me a fax machine. I said that is really ridiculous idea. You know. Within about four years it was all over United States and I was. I was but I wouldn't change as my mind. I'm seldom right but never in doubt so But I think I saw that. Come out ahead. Well something come love it. And then it picked up Serena Did a pretty good job of bringing it out and for those that were like the idea was great. The problem that I saw with it still seen whether it is. It is a lot of tissue in the mouth hangs over margins and you know the intro scanners can only see what it can see and so then to use the tool. Sometimes you have to use electoral electoral surge to open up the field so that you can actually see the the margins. Wow you gotta do surgery to use a tool. That's got a crazy thing so I really think As much as I like cake Kevin obviously in it dried while I o system But this is a big market still for polyvinyl polyvinyl satellites and it'll be around a long time. I'm positive of it. Well I am so You know remember Jim Miles. Does this job on densify. Sure love that guy. Hit the biggest boat on Chesapeake Bay from Puerto Rico so he bought a boat that could literally go from Chesapeake Bay to Puerto Rico and he said I ask someone at dinner I said. What's the thing about dentistry? He goes Dennis or so brand loyal he said said May I said they got so many things going wrong that if something works not changing that I've ever change and I think about that. I started out on emperor them it was in made in Germany. Thou ah by. I'm still thirty two years later. I'm still using Emperor Gum Wh Why do you think that is the brand loyalty. I think a dentist are running a practice. That has so many decision points. There's so many things they have to stay loyal to that and he's moving on to something else I mean he. You don't get bored industry. You get overwhelmed. I think and so. I think that's why people dinners. The innovative guys is that that want to try the thing like you know the twelve percent. That are using Serena I just as you do. I thought it was extremely expensive. I like the idea I I was building machines to do Koneohe milling and I says. Well I can build a machine at six foot tall visit. Connie why can't I make a small machine gene. That'll do that do something else. Everybody thought I was having these made in China or something else rated and we make everything right here right here in Irvine California And we have what we have like fifteen. PhD's on-staff another twenty five and industrial engineers. That designed Mechanical Mechanical Engineers. That design all these things mentally hundreds software writers that write all the software. We have over. And you've been hiring suffer writers in python which is artificial intelligence. Yeah and I get a podcast interview with the guy in artificial intelligence who was just it is but why what you're doing with artificial intelligence. He was saying that that People like me to them. And that you scan it and determines So what are you getting when you use polyvinyl. SELLECK say it'll get done in every little grew this nasty stoppages crawls as there's you know in a copies everything but when you're using a billable light scanner. It can't look into undercuts so what we've done is we've come up with a computer tomography and we're able to see right through an impression. Launch is not a metal tray in there we can. We can take a box with an impression at it scan the entire box that attleboro opening it absolutely gives you a detailed copy of the prep all the way down within twenty microns. This is unheard with four four. Five years ago though see Tepe was about two hundred microns. Now we got it down to twenty now building our own. CT units show you on today. Today we're building our own. CT scanners and we put an impression in there. We have one system downstairs. Now that were were on this floor where we had Now that we're getting two hundred up to two hundred thirty impression today right now on his robotic line that we've built two hundred and thirty impressions in your I day. Yeah it's a task. Were doing outside company. But I'll show you what it looks like. We're doing right now but I mean impressions. Do you actually receive Steve as you know. We we get ninety thousand a week ninety thousand impressions a week. Yeah wow so so that of course I looked at all of them. Yeah so On on those on those impressions on some people out there saying that that if you send in a scan no there's less remakes if you send in an the impression it's it's the same or there will be less remakes. I'll tell you when you send in a scan and intro skin there are definitely less less remakes. We've come to that conclusion and we do a lot of data analytics here If you take your average gentle Ab and some some areas we do the same. We're not completely in the CD scanning at we have the poor that model then we take like the model and you only die trim it and every time the engineers will talk about era stack up a stack of error. Is when you go from one material then you have to go to another one then you gotta scan it again and then you go to casting and you even a three D. printers involved Each Wanna be. Let's say you start off at twenty micron run by the time you get down to the fifth element of this process. It's one hundred microns and that's called care. Stack is called stack error stack up in other words. You know how title is a screw Fed and and if you make the thousand screws but you never changed the cut. Some they get looser Lutheran looser. Gay So if you add ETA always twenty micron errors after five or six. There's one hundred Micron air. And we know that the we need to have seventy five micron margins to put them in the mouth supposedly two hundred micron. Thank God for the semester using today. It'll plug any gap in there but Stack up errors. The thing you're fighting so when you take if you give me a polyvinyl oxygen and I use A. Cat Scanner on it. I go right through that that impression and I go directly into a cab program design it can program to machine it and I will give view a product. It'll probably be within twenty to thirty Micron. I've got a chance because I didn't go through the plaster. Your plasters good on one day. Maybe Day to the bats plash. You've got the little differences so the expansion in twenty four hours a little different most dental labs. Don't eat wait. Twenty four hours just to work on a model work they start working on it within six or eight hours in reality stuff supposed to separate twenty four hours. So is there any scanners late like anything. There's a lot at three am has true death We have Copenhagen Denmark has Three shape Have all I tell you. I've worked with the three shape guys in the past. They've got their trio scanner very very nice very good candidate. Good color They Brown from couple of graduates out of college over there into fifteen hundred employees. Now Dental labs around the world use them just work. The chewed F- Scanner Ganor Very Nice. Little scanner was backed by three M. I understanding sold it off right now and I have three. Emma sold it scanner now. So you know what I know. Who bought that was it? You know kind of a bad idea. We built at scanner in San Diego Seven eight eight years ago and I had my head handed to me. US is a difficult business to be an but because of a scanner we bought. We bought the software company in Russia. That does all our CAD CAM software out of Moscow acce- you bought Russian scanner yet. We'll know about the company. The software developers developers that write software for basically just dentistry. The they're all their background. They'd worked for another company and ORTHODONTIC company. Clear liners and you think so. They had moved invisible. Go to Ukraine and Moscow. Guys were ripe to do what we were doing. And we'll say Russia's silicon Laekan valley is. We must go. Is it. My would fig Moscow. Thank you know. A lot of people. Forget that Russians landed great on the moon. I as sputnik there the first dog in space in space Yuri high-tech country they. They're they're not low tech at all not at all. It's kind of funny. I always think about Minnesota and Michigan those states. How much precision engineering they do up there even United States you you know what her inside your cold snowy Assu I beg? I WANNA switch in line for because I'm it's a confusing. I I iphone love you when I was in dental school and I I did because you seem like the only guy that was a champion. I grew up with five sisters and a brother Kansas. My Dad Delivered Rainbow Bread so we were so poor. I didn't know that that that people you know I. I thought only air conditioners at the store. I was ten years old before I realized that some people were so rich. Add Air Conditioner in their house. And so here's the orthodontist. They all get sixty five hundred bucks. invis- line comes out. Clear liners that great technology but they work with the orthodontist. The prices still sixty five hundred and then someone comes out smiles Dirk Club and says you know what we're going to go for twenty five hundred and we're going to do that we're going to. We're going to bypass your costs. We're GONNA SCAN it. We're GONNA HAVE HAVE A. I read the impression and Just give a four thousand dollar break to the little guy and the orthodontist said absolutely on and they're trying to go to war but so but what do you think that is smiles direct trying to help the poor guy or is this union busting testing with Jordan on his hat V. This I think you know you again. Adventure capital back to concept They went public with the right. Peo- was only a a six eight weeks to months ago. Maybe it fell precipitously and I had told people. This is a good old company. Actually I kind of like the concept but you know like extent California your CD is fighting tooth and nail to keep them out not fighting way. They're saying well. If you WANNA go smile club you need to go take a a have an x ray done by a real real dentist I. So they're putting a dentist in the way so let's say Real Dennis I'm worth real orthodontist. You're right and I understand a an orthodontist. That's the that's all they make a living and so they're seeing smile direct club going around them In from a business standpoint. I think they've got a great business. Idea I've even in by some friends of mine that you buy the stock is probably GONNA go. Darn thing went down almost sixty percent but even yesterday it was up fifteen percent right. You know So it's coming back. They signed a contract with Walmart They've expanded into four countries and Far East already just announced that the on Monday so I think they're here to stay but there's also four or five more right behind him chomping at the bitch. Smile direct clubs issue is is setting up an office where you're doing Scan and that's where the dental boards are getting upset about that but it's nice to going to an orthodontist office and getting an intro scan will well then then why are you gonNA use Mile Club direct whereas two or three behinds markup direct other companies like bite whatnot. They're saying you don't have to do that. That you were going to send you a home in oppression kit so as direct to consumer and is catching on a lot bigger than I thought it would So so what is it good for dentistry. You know it's not good for dentist probably good for patients. You know the the reason. I was not impressed by the stock. Simply because we we've lived through this Rodeo on the last nine hundred forty forty two thousand with like hotels dot com and there's no there's no stopping him. There was next thing he knew there were fifty. It's kind of like an uber came over lift but the the first competitor that popped up lift took a quarter of their business. Or you know ten years now. They'll they'll probably be a California Uber. Little APP there might be one for people. We're going to Disneyland. I mean I say protection but but what I'm more curious about is Why did you never WANNA go into clear liners you yeah? I mean y'all question but I have a relationship with the Tarot scanner that is distributed by embezzling and because of that. I actually told them I wouldn't get into that business and expected that to become a consumer business. Where a lot of guys we're going to get into it and actually lose money because the pricing is going to be slow that They're going to close a lot of stores. So I think if for example if you look at the restaurant business and there's more money loss in the restaurant business than has ever been made in the restaurant business is that is that real because you know put a second mortgage on their house and they opened a restaurant they go broke McDonald's Taco Bell and all those people making money but at the same time. The average person loses money restaurant Bennett. Some everybody thinks they can cook they. I can open restaurant the same thing in the Kleiner business. You know. INVIS- lines moved their production facilities a couple three times and I know of other situation relation to same way where they people were scanning and all of a sudden they're making a three D. printed models. That are doing thermo form suck. Now's and cutting him for them someplace where there's a better price because it is A. It is a battle over price the bottom line. I heard you speak. I think the only thing I have in common with view is I think we both the only people that got to speak four times at CAL lab over the air is that I was still got something in common with Jim but the initially. You didn't like the dental implant business and you kind of out of it did not to use any names. But I had a couple of Implant specialist who sent cases to me. When I was doing implants that were so badly thought out? You know ten implants lower ten or twelve on the upper all going in different directions no surgical guides and I thought if these are the people that are teaching P.. GP's north oral searches have to do dentistry. This is going to be full litigation. I wrote a letter. The names and center come on and I just said this is GonNa fall into hell you know. And and so. In retrospect in fact I was completely wrong again but never in doubt I I thought it was going to be full of litigation but you know nobody dies from the things that happened in the mouth so nobody gets too alarmed and everybody has a plausible explanation. Why the implant fell out so therefore but I thought Oh boy why this business looks really nasty to me and I WANNA protect my employees so I want to get out so he was nineteen ninety one or two? I wrote a letter and I'm going to get out of that industry and then in ninety one I think it was ninety one and then in two thousand five six seven I realized I was wrong and I decided to get back back into it and Some ex- Nobel employees came to work for us and help me get to thing going and and that's really today. I have a forty year. Well over forty x Nobel people working in our company that read our machines the same machines Nobel us we were using. We use a set of twenty one dollars machines. I've I've actually never been wrong wrong. I can't even say the word I've never been wrong. How does the implants Lati- now you see the you know I? I'm always trying to help the these. He's dental kindergartners are still in school. They just come out of school and I'm not making this up when you go to Cologne Germany. There's four hundred dental implant comfortable absolutely i. She's listening to old dude saying come on. I don't have time to look at four hundred. I think one of the problems that I see is that it Dental implant controlled by paradise that are all surgeons and their soul Anita stroman or Nobel and yet behind it there's four hundred implanted companies. That are making these little screws cost ten bucks to make and somehow he ended up being a four hundred dollar part on the get to the dental office and yet dental implants are great dentistry. A three hundred bridge a say we've lost a tooth you know you got compromised intitial Anita side of it we're gonNA Put him down and put a three and a bridge on there. You know and it's GonNa last forever. Good luck on that you lose a tooth you throw some moggy station and airport an implant in it now. You've got got a really good strong restoration so I I'm a total Lebron that I see bridges anymore and I just kind of I know. They're stopgap but I think implant I see your with the implant boy from Ohio Jack. Hon- well as you know Jack Hon. I develope replace implant for Nobel. My F- I took his lectures way back in the eighties. So so how did well. Well what did he had a relationship with Nobel forever and then at some point They parted ways a little bit. I think Jack was trying to help. GP's due implant technology and Place implants and Nobel still wanted to stay with basically oral surgeon. Okay let's me on that. Lets well you know this is. Dennis Chan spent censored where we call a spade his fate when Nobel started with that brand brand mark go when he came over the United States. You could only go to his lecture if you're an oral surgeon Ten years to get the parents just like in California today when I go to the ended on Gary Karr. Tpao course they won't even let me go into court me into tola snuck into his course and that elitist guy figured out about three fifteen that mean to tola were General Dennis and kicked us out now that that's just it's just in gross. I mean it's just it's elitist and I just find it gross. I'm maybe if you're part of that but so it's an orchid orthodontist honest. There's only one word honest. That was a top that University of California San Francisco Richard Lead tots program. There ten years anyone to Detroit taught there for another ten years he taught low-life site May and to Tola orthodontic so he's been blackballed from the entire orthodontic community. He's never published in their journals. He's never asked to lecture. And that's just kind of an old ancient gross tradition. That's ugly the and gross and needs to go. I mean because we the the I'm supposed to have one eye on the patient and one eye on cost. I'm not supposed to sit there. Era and say well. What will the pain on his thing? Oral Surgeons thinker. I mean no when my patients in the chair and I'm working honestly with my hands I'm I'm only. I'm only looking at the patient. I'm not looking at all these other. Tribes and one of my issues about oral surgery is that they're really good in the areas. The rat I I'm When I mean is if you've got gum disease you do it? The one thing he most period never done US restore it restaurant. You know to restorative dentistry and yet here. They are placing implants in places where they've got solid bone on. What's how's that relate to the exclusion in so you've always got people who want to control all implants because they're looking for bone and I'm looking for a finished restoration? My patients the patients we have they WANNA know if they can get their teeth back again. And so when I started seeing these implants come out and you different positions. This is Gary and I didn't want to do when I came back into the implant minutes I just wanted to do. What gotTa call implant in a box? I want to send a case. I want to sit a surgical guide out with a with its own owned for the crown. You put everything in boom you know. And it's the exact right position not quite that simple as I found out but GP's no were. The collusion has to be. They should be allowed to place. Implants Jack. Han wanted to do that Jackson. Amazing guy and of course the Nobel decided. I decided to go a little different way so when they were having lunch with Jack and I did you want to do your own implant Jackson Sherwood. I says I've got all these engineers do what you WANNA do. took him nine months. I think they came up with this great system and I thought wow I really really impressed and so I even put his name on it instead putting minding line and it's the most expensive implants sold today. I hate to know you know I. That was my delight. Where's it on the price point? Oh it's like in the hundred forty fifty dollar range. What do you think the average is al-Qaeda's worthwhile cares? Well you know they have A. I can't speak to their pricing. I really don't know but I know that if you're a big customer you probably GonNa get a special deal. You're you're what did you. What did you think of them spinning off Dan her here? Here's five percent of the human body and they spun off their whole hold dental division and visa and I lived through that Rodeo twice because when school serono was part of Siemens which is like their Johnson Johnson Johnson Gillette and somebody said were overweighted in healthcare and they spun off. Don't you think that dentistry has always been difficult have to manage. I mean if you look at all the people come here to try to make money out of this thing Even today I mean what how the the big one just slow for two billion. DSO Health. What am I trying to say? In the middle of the country hartland heartless ashtray. Ashtray paid almost two billion dollars for that. So now I hope they get a return on their investment. What was the debt reinvest? I did not see that. No I didn't see. Yeah but I mean I'm saying you know this difficult. I know big big money comes into dentistry. I think that Danaher looked at what they had. They over I felt the overpaid for Nobel. I thought they over well. I'm not sure about the only two point two. I shouldn't say that. Then they bought Implant direct from Jerry. Nick my God that that was about three hundred million for you know whatever and Jerry you know. He was a great marketing guy. Let's give them that you know But I mean that was kind of crazy raise you soon as I heard that number. I said what's Danaher. They have a Danaher management program. You know which is actually the Toyota system management system and but I don't want to management system is Taybeh learn how to spend money and I think the overpaid for most of what they bought a bit Nobel you remember one time had a market cap of six billion dollars under ladies around it to a hell. Yana can up Eliana Kenneth over. She ended up to six billion. The board got rid of her. They sold two point two billion. I don't know much about the stock market but it didn't sound like a very good deal to me. You Brand Mark Saw Sun brand mark was an orthopedic surgeon I did not. Yeah so he. When he was doing the research he couldn't do artificial? He didn't do artificial hips on Maya's so you just thought you know what I'm just GonNa make a little pagan jaw. He's an orthopedic surgeon so he was just doing it in in mice and rats and That turn it worked and it turned out to implants his sons and orthopedic surgeon in San Francisco. What am I have no idea so NI? How that that's so? So what brought up before you went oh to Cologne. And you saw four hundred implant companies over there and Yes there's going to be a bailing out of the worst but interesting about most of them work most every one of those tinian pieces you put it in the mouth brand mark decided discovered when he put the little microscope on rabbits head I think and then finally she can't get it off because it was titanium titanium needs to the house. What's this all about that discovery? But today if you bought a piece of titanium in the body just also integrates Nikonov screwing your arm is going to Osceola great So there's other foreign companies. Some of them are probably financially on rocky ground and they won't survive but when you look at the probably be a good Fifteen twenty specialized and they'll be able to survive says she she's twenty five. She just walked out of dental school. She's when they say either. Two hundred eighty nine thousand dollars in student. Loan debt that that's a criminal number to say because the people putting out that number is the the the what is it the American Dental Education Association. So they're trying to downplay how expensive they are because twenty percent of the kids didn't pay a dime. It's like my kids and pay a dime for college so that numbers in the average and then another big group of maybe eight or ten percent have some type of military create some Mike that but when you look at the people that have to go in there like I did and borrow the whole damn thing. I mean. They're going to be coming out of school. Four hundred thousand dollars. It's one hundred thousand dollars a year easily and you're you're being conservative. So young fellow here is seven hundred thousand when he got out of school so so that. That's the Mike and Mike. I'm trying to help that little girl from Kentucky. I think some of student debt to our people with against the actually get rental. Can they actually borrow money for ready to and living expenses and all that so yeah so so. She's twenty five. She's half a million dollars in that she wants to learn place. Implants what advice would you give her. Oh I would Would for example. Look I'm here. I'm not trying to be commercial. But what we have a system are Han implant system. We teach people right here how to place those and we bring it around the country to different places different hotels whatnot and we teach people how to place plus right now and they Jack Hall and get up there or any number of people like a five or six butyl great guys and other stuff his terrors at a wig. That's really really here. Oh my gosh. Don't cut cut that part out as a bald man. I want everybody to know. It's a wig the use of fire. You lost your fire on nine eleven so so where where did she find information. I will glide website well yeah glide will website typing glide. We'll good where page and it looked under. Implants lift all the courses. We put on every year now and learn how to do the man. This this is not anymore lodges take on. This is sometime when he's around. I'll fight on here or if he's in Phoenix or we do over skype. But I've loved that guy for thirty thirty years and he's a he's a working man's dentist and So you know he's he's at an age now he should be totally retired and yet we put him on the road anywhere else to go to South America and then he wants to go here and he will come back for a week and a half or something is much act as amazing as a workhorse. Recently I saw Casey had done here and there was six lower six implants and I'm looking at those and I said no bats why will use surgical guides in my guys looked at me. Says he free hands those things and they were perfect. That's all my you know at his age at the shaky hands. Well I got. His hands is go straight. I couldn't believe what he does let. Let's be honest about surgical guides when when you look at the legends and emptiness Carl Mesh. I mean they all pass ten thousand. Yeah when they only had to Deepak knows and so what I can tell you. I'm getting my fellowship in the missions to back when they didn't have see. We see ts is that that you don't realize what is a crutch because when you didn't have the panel I mean you when all you had as a to d you You put the head lap. You Sat behind him at twelve o'clock. You took your finger near Tom. You looked at that Ridge so so now. A lot of that surgical stuff has gone because they're looking at it computers for got Sergio so necessity is is the mother invention to Japan nose. Jack Carl Mez. I'm not in their legal. But you could place the implant because you had to be a surgeon. Yeah so you knew you were going to have to go there and feel you're going to have to lay up big flab visually see it and then you place the implant I put his. What is very last courses if not as last course on here? It's our Ghezzi our guide. We'll training center here in Newport beach and I was so pleased to have him and I took. We took him book trip round the harbour and whatnot and he didn't last lot much longer after that but then randy resnick. What a set of hands he has? And he's taken over the missions to toot. And I'll tell you what little brother Resnick is a he's the real deal and I'm roasting picking across. Yes sidecars brother kills brother. Who's married to a dentist in Florida but Randy Brunson Institute now has done an incredible job and we we still work very closely with them and they used Bihan implant so I was quite out. The mission says using the implant. You're not implant that we've shoved here today and show them to me. They do you think you can get a cameraman to carry a hand held so we can continue this throughout the day on different locations. Could we do that. Yeah that that would be amazing. But I can't believe the hours hours passed but I got a woody moves passionate about today. We're glide allied. Will I o thing we've done. which is CAD CAM? Cheer Side Milling Device. And you could use the to drive cat pro drive digital file to the cat program we have and we use artificial intelligence to design this. And because we've done millions and millions the answer crowns that are in the cloud. We have a method of identifying what crown goes into that space. So the dentist doesn't have to sit down with a whole bunch the tools and that'd be estimate fifteen key strokes I would be shocked and so I said Yeah. That's fine get it goes to the mill. You know forty two minutes later the crowns GONNA go into the mouth mouth firing it. You're not doing anything to background could. It's fully centered. Ganja gets at Brookshire crown and it really really works so I'm really excited about back because practices when I see patients like I'm at the golf course or someplace where my buddies are at the law is tell me about some dentists that just put his crown in his mouth in an hour. And I you know it's your side million that we take for granted but that's what they tell their friends about me that dental practice decision. I have the word temporarily and I didn't have to do this. And so they have a lot of respect for people who do that so it's explained glide we'll dot com but you have glide wool dot I. Oh Yeah Yeah. So Dot Com the website for the company. And you know be What's the I L. I. O.? As in office that means glide well in office in so you can buy these little little slug that goes in different shades. That that you make out of there like thirty five dollars. Save sixty percent using when when Serono when when Patterson's are on the SARONIC CAD cam they were terrified. Milling Milling Crowns in just about an hour blah blah blah blah. We got on dental town is like two hundred and fifty thousand registered debts dental town seventy thousand download the APP and and no one knows if anybody who did it in one hour. They're like yeah. That's that's two to three hours. I'm going to say it's our time this hour and fifteen minutes after you bill. Well did you save the money at an hour and we'll as I suppose a three hour so we hear all the time all the time because because if if it if it really would have been at our procedure it would've taken off. The problem is is that it it was taking two and a half three hours. If you use imacs than you're going to have to fire it to center it so you you've now you gotta take it out and you gotTa Glazer become a dental technician. We're seeing you to want to be a dental technician. You just want to take this crown outer snapping off at little bits brew in a Polish on that area and put it in the mouth. The contact seclusion margins are going to be there. And you don't need to. You can glaze it if you wanted to. But you really don't have to. The surface is very very smooth. You think is going to be much ethic. Is this Brookshire. This is my solid zirconium. Completely hard you'll never break is the same thing you see his pounding anterior poster. Both Post your your some anterior right now. Oh by the end of the year two thousand twenty. It's all it'll be everywhere in the mouth and and three and a bridge too but also this system is total system including a carol scanners less than eighty thousand. Maybe seventy seven thousand something like that versus one hundred forty thousand so Just to sit you you you and I would say another thing about Jim. That totally impressed me. I've been lecturing to Dennis for thirty two years. I I'm Dennis with my MBA and you you can never ever meet a dentist that knows any of their numbers and from the time I met you thirty years ago. I mean like you. You wrote your own software so that they call your office it would pull up my chart. They would know everything about my account. Every time I talked to. You You you just you just know all your numbers where where does that come are. Why do none of the dentist know their numbers? And why do you you where did that. I think it's fair to them. A little bit because they're doing dentistry and I'm really doing math. Most of the time you know and I've always been math driven ribbon whether whatever industry playing with his golf even I'm a mathematician on the golf course. That's keeping score. I mean doing what we call critical incident analysis telesis which is Cq I and then we have CIA. which is a constant quality improvement in CIS critical incident analysis analysis where you take a whole bunch of numbers you look for weaknesses so always trying to eliminate weaknesses in when we looked at a remake rates? Let's say oh by by the way speaking of remake rates we. I'm going to show you today. Selective laser centering of metal partial frames not. I'm not a partial technician. I it was always a ceramicist but when we started putting in these S. L. S. frames. We found out that half all the remakes went away right away just immediately the something about the way. These things fit remember error stack up. I mentioned in the beginning. But when you make one of these things from a scan we scan it in good directly to the design and by by the way that happens to be a three shape design we're using we don't mind our own software per for removable but we can go in and make this S. L. S. partial frame comes out and just drops on most of the people you go to my framework that we go through a different models and then they have to wax it up and they have the branded it out and have to cast it and at the end of the bunch of guys sitting there grinding and grinding and grinding and make things fit and if the model gets a little braided it's not gonNA fit in the mouth but these S. L. S. frames. They'll show you some of those. They absolutely fit where were shocked. and not that I like partial people should be put implants mouth and doing dentistry the right way. But there's a market out there you have to so if you If we've seen DSO's go from MOMS zero. Two I'm in Arizona. It's the highest of any eighteen percent of the Denison Arizona work for Eso so that's ground zero for DSO's DSO's next state over in Arizona. And if your want to be a private practicing then as you got to compete against Eso's but what would you tell all the. DSO's are the dentists competancy. Esso's what should they do to be more competitive Tom What would be taken. Offer more services to the dentist operators. That are running owning those offices and that the DSO's so's do a great job of running back office operations. I I don't have a problem with the Sol's at all when they become too profit oriented. That's probably where I would say. They need to back off of that. Let let them use their laboratory. They want but at the same time. Don't tither earnings to saving tumor expending for saving too much much money. I think there's a pressure point sometimes when Modesto so you gotta use this service in that service. We negotiated a really good price and it is noise always to the betterment of a patient. Oh you mean when. DSO's are making their Dennis. Use other lab right another lab or helping. Oh and and and and they should really stop. Stop doing that because I mean I can name names examples where the CEO will tell you. I'll say well what's your biggest challenge. These dentist turnover or employee turnover I'll say okay well. Here's a huge reason. They quit because you made them use that lab and I. It's hard to get to Dennis to agree that it's Tuesday. Tuesday let alone agree on the same way. Goldwell is a great lab Were the biggest in the world of forty thousand labs worldwide. Yeah so that's Kudo to us. But there's as long thousand labs worldwide there's A good eight thousand United States. But when I get a school there were fifteen thousand fifteen. Seventy thousand that's right today. They left. Why did he go from fifteen? Productivity PRA laboratory went up. I mean is that we are people now. Double the production because of automation so there's automation. Nation is really affecting us where million crowns today. We didn't use it but there's still a lot of dental APPs in this country. That are really good in on my hat Arinda. Some guys like shocked at some of the work they can. Do you know we've got some people here too. That can walk on water practically every really cut. But I've also seen in some real dental apps out there that deserve all the money they make you know. I know our prices are not. We're like ninety nine dollars for a crown and when you look at what we get out of ninety nine dog we have enough left over to to fund all this research all this development hundreds and hundreds of people who just work on product development on and But but the average dental have so small they work on about they need about a twenty percent bottom line just so they can pay their bills and afford their house payment. You know you take something like what I have here. I can live on two percent. Cut It so big so the rest it goes into rnd and making employees even bigger so huge advantage when you get really large and so we wonder stockholder. Why don't we grab a camera? And what would you do that. You BETCHA WE'RE GONNA show you imply manufacturing. We'll show you how we manufacturer Milling Centers will show an automated Brookshire machining center. Which is can produce like twenty two hundred cases? Susan Dey perfectly. I'll show you selective laser centering parcells. I want you to show me with that I love America. I love and Americans. Or you're a rags to Kentucky to riches I mean you're the American Dream Name and I got my four boys have made me five grandkids Phil and Little Governor Mason early one into his three and and they need to see. These American stories reminds me the that movie The people vs Larry Flint. I don't care if you like the guy or don't like I that's an American story. And you know he did. He got WHO's the guy from friends? Woody Harrelson and he made a movie you and I loved it because it was. It was about free speech. I mean finally got to the the greatest scene was got spring Gordy says when George Washington was president. There is a picture of him. Walk into the White House with a donkey and the caption said the ASS returns to Ya. Asia and he goes. I don't care if you like it or don't like it That's freedom of speech and I think that you got your your up to St from Hollywood. This is an American movie. I mean they're five thousand movies on Netflix. And I don't want migrant kids watching half of them because they're noise and John can entertain but this is an American classic alleged story but I know guys like you always shy really fly below the radar. They don't make sense. But you gotta you gotTa get out there and dance For the grandchildren. I have all you know. Have all the houses in the jet airplanes and the big shots and all that and Where's the beef to work every day? Guys we'll tell you I walk in here every day at eight o'clock in the morning and I have a hard time using all these toys. I have because when I come here. I'm the happiest I go on vacation like the Bahamas or something on a big boat oaten. I can't wait to get back to work. So what's the name of this movie going to be the people vs Larry Just Jim Exit Plan. So let's go but I but I really want you to consider though has You know when we were little they always said you know you should read more and you'd read but it was all words no pictures picture then you look at your three year old rankin. She's watching Youtube video. Because it's video it sound it's great and of course they're gonNA like Youtube better than the TV TV because when we grow up we had three channels on TV. Now you got a million on Youtube. I WanNa amazes me today too. Is that you and I were raised at a time. When we learned by the written word you know I mean? Television is barely coming in. When I was a child? You know and today these kids we say there's something wrong with these these phones. What they're watching the telephone all the time? They're always under texting doing something but I wonder that the human brain has never been stretched to full capacity we we we don't have that much information. I think today these kids are getting smarter. Smarter because of these tech the cell phones you know if we all carry around our apple phone and I believe that there it just might by the way I have young children to ten twelve fourteen and sixteen. My children are and they're on these phones all the time. My wife doesn't like it. She's thinking something. Nothing bad going on there and I understand because we don't know the ramifications right now we will see twenty years from now. We're going to say. Oh we just kill off the brain cells these machines. I don't think so. I think our kids are smarter than we ever were. When I think how I was fourteen years of age or sixteen I knew nothing compared what my fourteen year old my sixteen year old? No today so I. I think we're in good hands. Let let you by the before. You've done so much to to your dental town to create a dialogue all the time that keep it going and you're not a vendor you're not selling anything you know because most of the time either when I'm in front of a camera I'm almost a lot of them selling something you're not selling anything and I'm trying to come across. I'm not selling anything either. Except make dentistry better make it more affordable. Take care of more people. That's what we want to do. That's what you're trying to do too. Yes and and Dan just like facebook and Google only have one business model. They sell ads and Joe who our largest advertisers been. Who's since we started dental town in in one thousand nine hundred ninety eight really you have so everybody? Who has the seventy thousand Dennis with the he? Donald town APP on their phone. This is the guy who is paid for you to do that. And that this is the guy that's been paying for that bill and I sincerely appreciate that but at and one last thing about that the young dentist because I believe the only value of knowledge is if it's transferable and if you take the great with nothing but what I'm most excited about your four kids your your wife's concerned that they're on the smartphone too much and at Christmas I watched all the grandkids. And they just you know in fact I got to tell you the silly thing I ever on my life Mason. It was time to eat and he was on this thing and as mom said you know come to dinner and so I came over. It took his arm. I lifted them off the ground and he was still holding nine holy moly but but what the way I see this this from a guy in your backyard jobs that for the five thousand years of recorded history. It was a game that was played at the top in government religion orgin business and and it was all played down at the individual and then in two thousand seven this guy. This natural sapien intelligence taligent with his opposing thumb looking at this artificial augmented intelligence with a computer in. Everyone's hands stronger than what. Neil Armstrong had hat on the moon right and this is the rise of the individual it started in two thousand seven. I know there were smartphones before that but jobs is what made it roll out and and two thousand seven now. It's twenty twenty thousand thirteen years and I think in. I think this is going to reestablish an equilibrium equilibrium between the individual. And the top. And you're already seeing ed where I mean access to information I mean I remember when I he's warning sixty two tennis seventy-two mombasam encyclopedias at a garage sale that were printed in fifty two. And now you're GonNa now Argon enjoy seventy five million pages on wikipedia updated daily failure so I think this is going to be the greatest single we'll invention ever made for the individual totally agree and it's going to restore the individual to his rightful place in society and not just be a victim of the top down command control top so thank you for Supporting Donald Town since nineteen ninety eight. I really appreciate it. And and You've always been idle mine and you're the first person I asked the podcast. I had to do to Tola. Because you would. You wouldn't do it but So he was the first podcast and the reason I called him. Because I was calling for you and I only got him but four years later you finally showed up. Thank you so much USA lunch now. Now I'm making one of these botch this. This is an icon scanner. And it scans that silicone impression or whatever especially put in there and then you would give the the box you could mix. We don't do that with right now. We've got it sitting on a tree stuff. You Watch it as an impression sending by a customer and they're gonNa take that now and fifty three seconds over here roughly two scannon oppression but so they'll take those growing in there right right out. So here's the to hear a radio. I hear the Journal. They do here today. The running several hundred impressions Russian every day now. The door is open. Lever that so stick to to impression in the full two impressions out so you can see here what's happening here. Is this lady's taking these two use cases and she is actually articulating. The upper and the lower arch together. See Her move those arches getting that now this will go off for anything it could be. A liners could to be any number of race because of the way we do things here as you can see. It's completely different than any other lab you'd never walk into. It's all automated conveyors. You're the move cases. How many how many cases will come in on average day? Probably the All the Buildings Fifteen fifteen thousand dollars a day. That's right so are you fed ex's best friend Zach. That mostly comes a million dollars a week. Almost everything you see the are saw uh-huh and that's one of the big thing a lot of growing. How do you control this medication coming up and it looks like chaos last completed? Organize have very good people to do that. They don't rely on me for party. Here five thousand from Komo. This here is A. We're standing on the back of it. Maybe Yup different front back. Remember that big machine I showed you order three hundred seventy five thousand gold machine. This replaces that and it's faster. This here is a computer tomography. You're it big X ray and it's going to shoot through bear and a scan that it is the PBS skin. Yeah Oh okay. So that's an impression impression so Zulu me tell you go directly from this to cad to the machine no plasterwork appoint models truly so you. You make ninety thousand crowns a month a week and track all your remains and with the young young kids are trying to figure out when they get out of L. School is when do they need to switch from a quadrant trae to full upper and lower trays mounted on an art. Take they just to make sure that. Sometimes you're ACLU's we'll give you enough to arch energy. Take those things they know where the centric as But sometimes you're missing teeth. They're floating around in the subconscious and a person mind they know where they're centric is even though they have very few teeth in their mouth but once you take them out so you don't have the subconscious with those two pieces together so then you need a boy straight so when when you when can you do and win can utilize. What would be the required quieted for anything? I wouldn't do quoc on three hundred bridge so I'll tell you gotta just I was still trying to do a full mouth impression with most of the time. Well what if what it was. Just the first and second molar and there is no wisdom to wouldn't have a problem with that is a quarter to buy inclusion. You'll again I'm trying to help you know. Knowledge has no value. If we can't transferred to the kids she's twenty five. Who would you would would you for faster easier? Higher quality lower cost better. Quality should start with impression material or a scanner. You've got to have impressed material because you can't scan everything you're gonNA come across cases. That scandal will not work especially if you a lot of tissue and then we were. I said if you have a lot of tissue to remove go in there and burn tissue and that's not what you really want to do then silicone impression. Material will go in every little sulks. You can't and keep it out. Just pull it out so if you can see all the little blocks over there. They are different shades. So all rushing of Zirconium Caesar Berkshire blocks so these these racks take them out of out and then this this little device will pick them up. They'll go go down through the remember that machines I told you about that were It was making these industrial milling machines fast with this. This is industrial emissions. Very much kinda like the ones you using your office furniture side. But that's what this is doing. So it's going to mill those and that robot comes through here picks them up and then this can do twenty two hundred you today. This machine here will grow a dairy right here. Twenty me two hundred twenty two hundred of so back when you started. How many people would you needed to do? Twenty two hundred crowns a day when you're waxing enough and casting the five hundred five hundred six so this eight hundred person lab holy-moly sick visit twenty four hours a day during this way for us today. This'll be lights out. You can turn it on weekends. Keep running what's happening. Here here is by doing automation. Thinking two things happen. We get a predictable product all the time so we're getting there reproducible product whereas if a technician made these he's like Michelangelo and he wants to put a few changes on this not only. Is it technician very expensive. But he is wanting to put his own stamp of approval on this product. Here I make this blank. I make the bikes myself from powder. Coney saw saw Konia Roxanne Rupture Rupture and that I make These pellets to hold it on there so that it can go and be held by. The machine was being mill and easier just for bridges. The bridges short ones are. These are the short the short. These are yeah but I want you to ask answer next question because This argument keeps rupe space itself when the textile mills came out across a lot of unemployment. Your India cancelled Back when I was in college. Cancel the bunch of equipment from John Deere because unemployment so Milton Friedman went over. They said what's the deal and he says well. I don't want to get a tractor when I have all these people that can do the job by hand and Milton treatments that will then take away their shovels and give them spoons. uh-huh yes smaller move Israel. So what was your increases productivity but autonation automation places people and we become truly automated over the past years and we've grown from two thousand employees to five thousand of voice. Okay so you re purpose your people you have them doing jobs that are not just make work jobs and they actually even make more money so my average back to waxing axiom the crowns while they're blindfolded wouldn't that create a job and that's good input we're gonNA use that when the unit come out. They go through system here and when they come off the very end they'll be placed in the little boxes breath like this year so that's the interiors that come out. That's what they look like. In their oversized shape those are twenty one percent oversized. It'd kind of large to you right now. That is very large crowd but as twenty one percent oversights Sir Brookshire and when it goes through the machine of this is not solid. Coney Johnny Yeah. This is just the poorest and so it has to be shrunk down twenty one percent of IBI accurate size. Then what's different share. Site Milling Brooke served served. Do the whole thing an hour and fifteen minutes. Well two MIL. I can know this ground here. Twelve minutes it's because it's a hundred hundred passable but when it solid states are Konia. It's twelve hundred Becca Pascall so you have to use diamonds on it and cut slowly in on some really small founding them at thirty six thirty minutes but the big ones take forty two minutes. Remember that for after forty two minutes. You don't do absolutely anything. Go directly into the mouth and you would rather do this than invest five dollars and smiles clubs talk. Yeah I don't buy stock. I don't know any any stock at all. Do you see yourself ever doing IPO. For No. I really don't because then that changes I would become obligated to the stockholders at that point restrict make decisions because I would never WANNA risk. I'll take risks of my own money but I don't WanNa take risks with this. See this here popping box out like that. So the crown goes in here envoys and this goes into an envelope and it gets shipped out to a dentist with no models and cost very little night shift with goes in an envelope now. So that's let's shipping all that and how many of these you make a day out one thousand and that's strictly for ability that's strictly or non model Like I turtled cases coming in these things here are called. Eds media machine electron machines. They they'll make super fine cuts in the metal and all that so we make parts. You just can't make any other way I tell you the truth. I don all parts are but but if they WANNA throw a hole in something really fine I like the kind of the million here the speed guys will burn them. Burn things in. These machines are thought easy machines. They've they do think do regular Rotary Bill. So what are they all all making. Here's this all removed. This is removable over here and the IT stuff is already down there. And when you say I tear that's your install I got lice right. We don't make any at this time. Remember remember I said those machines. The process really fit. What just laser burning here? So that's powdered metal and it's burning on top of the the old metal cut some parts underneath it. It's adding on top of it now. The cable's going to drop twenty micron and a blades gonna go across it and pull all power in front of it. Okay and then. So it'll be the second cutting death into into it. You see whether they're melting on top twenty micron a melody melted on top of that piece. Okay and the powder is in the air yet right. The what's the white. See the blade watching across the top. You're looking at the top of the frame. But they're not noticed frames are GONNA disappear. It just put twenty miles around the table just dropped twenty microns Malaysia's on this make another pass so it's building up metal twenty microns throws it. Aside isn't a see these that's what they're being built up Wow Amazing and then what. And then what's what's the next step will cut him off and they. They looked hard to get off. They're not. They cleaned up hurry And almost support legs underneath it in very it almost peel off. Then you end up with a frame looks of spelling. And this is the reasonable removable partial. It's like crazy. And what is the average cost of a room arsenic things I think your two and a half eight hundred fifty bucks to the teeth on it go extinct that cast parts off track. In fact I have this view. I believe that to make a frame any other way than this method is i. I can't do it anymore. Ethically I can't do it because I know I'm sitting out. Something is wrong. We had to look at our remix and we said wait a second. A cast partial has twice as many remakes as the medical center partial partial out the door knowing that the dentist and the patient with. I can't do it. We're looking at the the future right here. This is one of the big things changing technology. And it's this call L. S. selective laser center. So that's what the middle make any coping anything metal. It could be in really can by the way it could print implants instead of having to you know all fairly easily you could print out these these kinds of koneohe been so. That's what I I make. I make myself I like these things for four bucks half pay like fourteen bucks in. What is that made us? Carbide steel this whole area here. This is a training center. This year is gray. Send people come in here to learn how to do. Run the software and how she's learning how to run make models and all that so this is strictly strictly a learning center so we do all our training. We don't look for anybody that knows anything. We only trained if they come here experience we don't care we have to unlearn them. Almost I know that's what this is all. So this is your you hire someone to work in the lab. They go to school. This is where they would go along. Will they be here of the pioneer six weeks. I would think people staying here about six weeks or designing a new building designing a restaurant so these renderings of the restaurant where building over in one of the high rises over here. And it'll be built. We're building that out but we do all our own interior design right here. So you're building your own restaurant. We build everything ourself. We do all we do. I won't dry places Marshall this is a commercial thing but mainly for the one building over there where there's a lot of tenants free there will be free but it'll profit business. I don't do for profit stuff really but it would be a big bonus for the people in the building who don't have a restaurant right now and they can. They don't have to go out somewhere at lunchtime so convenient for them. And if you like it enough until we'll take up the rent. Maybe they'll pay a little bit more on the real we. You're you're building out the stuff we're at laboratory all my laboratories go right here on damage results Rica thirtyish thirty labs remember eighty five percents. Benaissa done right here in this area but so these are automated CNC. I'm machines to and the cat something you go to put it together but the glue on it sits between there's no adjusting no tapping you put the glue on it goes. Goes that amazing. So this is the woodshop like fifteen people were full time here but making a cabinet company

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The Surprising Ways Algorithms Steer Your Life & How to Make Your Ideas Stick

Something You Should Know

44:51 min | 1 year ago

The Surprising Ways Algorithms Steer Your Life & How to Make Your Ideas Stick

"Today on something you should know our UNICEF Daljit the along for the good old days. I've got some interesting reasons why you might be then understanding algorithms because they are a big part of your life over the third of which is that Amazon are driven by algorithms over eighty percent of our viewing activity on. Netflix is driven by Netflix. Algorithms almost all the dating matches on appliqued indoor and match dot com. They're driven by algorithms. Plus check your posture because bad posture could be causing you a lot of problems. And what makes a really good idea stick what we find is that successful, ideas of all kinds ranging from urban legend too important religious, ideas have sick things in common. They're simple their unexpected there concrete their credible. They happen to emotion in many come in the form of story. All this today on something, you should know. Somethingyoushouldknow is sponsored by ADT. What does real protection for your home and family mean to you? Well, whatever it is ADT can deliver. When it comes to home security ADT is a name, you know, it's the most trusted name in home security, and with ADT you get the latest innovation in smart home security, combined with twenty four seven monitoring ADT is the number one smart home security provider with a team of professionals who design and install a secure smart home, customized just for you with things like video doorbells indoor and outdoor cameras smart locks and lights all controlled from the ADT app, or by the sound of your voice. And this is really great. You can also get safety on the go or for when your kids are at school. It's the ADT go app with an SOS. S button. When security is important you need ADT. Somethingyoushouldknow fascinating. Intel the world's top experts and practical advice, you can use in your life today. Something you should know. Mike carruthers? I welcome. I would describe myself as nostalgic fit sentimental. I like the good old days. And it turns out that this whole idea of nostalgia. And longing for the good old days is a complex thing. It's so complex that it was once thought of as a disease it was the official cause of death. Nostalgia was the official cause of death for seventy four civil war soldiers. Our understanding of nostalgia has evolved a lot since then no one dies of nostalgia anymore, while some dictionaries equate nostalgia with home-sickness. It is not home-sickness is about a place. Misspell Jew is about a time. Home-sickness feels bad. Nostalgia feels good or at least bittersweet we also tend to idealize the memory and edit out the bad parts. So it is almost always positive and pleasant. Most people get Misao GIC at least once a week music, smells, tastes old photos can all trigger nostalgia. And so can loneliness a bad mood and being cold can also trigger. Nostalgia research shows that nostalgia promotes a laundry list of positive mental states and behaviors such as higher self. Esteem optimism and creativity. So nostalgia is really a coping mechanism. It's a tool for picking us up when we're feeling lost or bored or lonely, and that is something you should know. You've probably heard a lot about algorithms, and how they are controlling a lot of things and deciding a lot of things for example, algorithms determine some of what you see or don't see on Facebook or what net flicks recommends you watch next, but it's more important than that algorithms can determine which people get called in for job interviews, and which people don't in many cases, or who gets a mortgage or credit card approval, and who gets declined. So what are these algorithms where do they come from? And how do they work? Well, the guy to pose these questions to is Kartik Haas senior, he is a professor of technology and digital business and marketing at the Wharton school at the university of Pennsylvania. He's co founded four different business ventures, and he is author of a book called a humans guide to machine intelligence. How algarve? Rhythms are shaping our lives and how we can stay in control. Welcome professor, thanks for being here. Well, thanks for having me might of course. So we hear so much about algorithms and how they determine things and control things. But I suspect that a lot of people are a little fuzzy on exactly what an algorithm is. I'll admit to not understanding it fully. So what exactly is an algorithm? Yeah. That's a good place to start algorithms quite simply are just a series of steps. One follows to get something done, for example, when I make an omelet there's a series of steps I follow now that set of steps you could call it an omelette recipe, but the computer scientist in meek all's at an omelette algorithm. And almost every software application you use follows a certain set of steps and that is the algorithm in the software. So for example, Amazon's recommendation. Algorithm. That says people who bought this also bought these it has a certain set of steps at phone. It looks at the product that you are currently viewing identifies. Who else has bought that product? It looks at what else did they buy and then comes up with account of everything those people have purchased and recommends the most popular items to you now that's the series of steps at follows that is recommendation algorithm of Amazon and similarly any software application you use has a set of steps at follows. And that's the grid within the software to the casual observer your explanation. Sounds great. It's great that Amazon knows what other people who bought what I just bought bought and are now recommending some other things that I might like what could possibly be wrong with that. Look, I think this is great algorithms, whether it's Amazon's algorithm or Netflix algorithm, or you look at algorithms for driving cars, all of these great. The actually have a huge impact usually a very positive impact on our life. In fact, studies show that over a third of purchases that Amazon are driven by algorithms over eighty percent of our viewing activity on. Netflix is driven by Netflixing algorithms almost all the dating matches on absolute indoor and match dot com. They're driven by algorithms that even at the workplace, you know, all these loan approval decisions. You know, they're done by algorithms recruiting algorithms figure out which of hundred thousand applications are worth inviting for job interview. They're used in courtrooms to guide judges on rather criminals like likely to re-offend and they guide sentencing decisions, they guy doctors. Terms of treatment options. So they're all over. But the fact that they're all over and the drive so many of our decisions also means that if they have by sees or they have problems, then it could be very problematic and over the last two years, we started to see that these algorithms can be prone to human like, limitations and vic- sometimes. So for example, a study showed that algorithms used in courtrooms in the US. Have a race bias another studying actually, many have shown that some of these recruiting algorithms used by companies, they have a gender bias. We were already seeing that algorithms used on Facebook to curate which new stories we should read they had this limitation that they were not able to detect fake news stories, and they actually actively circulated many fake news stories, so given how much hope Purvis's they are. And how much? Back. They've on our decisions you thought many of us recognize that these algorithms have limitations as well. And so, you know, we're starting to see the these by CS and other limitations exist, and that's what is potentially problematic, and what we should be careful about it would seem theoretically speaking that you could. Yeah. Engineer the bias out of an algorithm. If it is in there in the first place that that algorithm should be more objective than people that they should work more objectively and therefore more accurately than people do, but they can't really match human intelligence, right? If I were to ask you, my give me all the rules you use for driving. We can spend hours discussing it. And we can come up with thousands of rules. But if you unleash that currency, go drive on the road. It might take fifteen minutes to have an accident. And what engineers have realized is that. You know, if we actually instead of programming and every rule we send none from beta. These algorithms can be actually very effective. So instead of Gordon all the roads for driving. We say here are videos of thousands of people driving over your, you know, observe and learn the patterns and learn how to drive then the algorithm essentially is now not being given the series of steps. But it's looking at videos of how people are driving and it learns how to drive is the same thing with screening resumes. Go observe, you know, the million applicastions we deceived over the last three years. Look at who we invited for job interviews who did we give an offer to who got promoted at the workplace and learn who are the kinds of people. We wanted our workplace so the algorithm looks at the data and learns from that and it works quite well. But the challenges if there are bias within the organization where let's say women are not getting promoted the algorithm picks up those by seasons though. So the. Algorithm is basically doing the best it can given the information. It has. That's right. I mean, the algorithm is very much. You know, these are called machine learning algorithms. So the idea is how do you get machines to learn and their approach is very much like the way. Humans. Learn you know, we, you know, let's say you look at a child the child first looks at you know, this animal a pet at home for like animal and says, okay, that's that's a cat. And now it looks at another animal and says, hey, that's a cat. And somebody says, no, no, no, that's not a cat. That's a dog. And now the child learns. Okay. So there's a difference between cats and dogs. The whisker tells me the, you know, the fish ship tells me, what's the cat. What Saddam and next time the child looks at a tiger and say, that's the cat. And we say, no, no, no, that's not a cat. That's at least not a domestic cat. It's it's a wild tiger. And so now the child realizes okay now, there's a difference between these as we are seeing more data, and we observe. Patents. We learn from it. These algorithms are very similar you give them lots of data and the learned patterns in the data, you give them lots of data. They say, okay. Every time there's a stop sign. The car seems to be stopping. So I know when I see something like that I should stop. And then it learns, hey, if the car in front of me slows down and it's coming closer, then I break as well. So I don't hit it. And so it's essentially learning these patterns from data nobody's explicitly teaching it. But it's nothing much like a child learning. Now, again, if the child is learning in an environment, that's biased prejudiced that child could pick up those biases and prejudice. And it's the same with these algorithms. So if the data from which it's nothing is not ideal. It learns from it, and it's very hard to prevent some of these things because you know, we want them to learn from beta and renewed take large amount. Of data like, you know, million job applications that company are, you know, again videos off thousands of people driving even tens of thousands of people driving over a year. That's a lot of data. It can learn to drive, but then hey, did somebody make a mistake while driving good it become those mistakes? All of those things are issues when as to whether you about and it has a social consequence because you know, hey, if you're using it in a socially important setting like deciding which mortgage applications to approve, you know, by sees problematic. If you're trying to figure out who gets a job again by Caesar problematic. And so that's where some of these challenges arise. We're talking about algorithms and my guest is Kartik causing her. He's a professor of technology digital business and marketing at the Wharton school at the university of Pennsylvania, and he's author of the book a human's guide to machine intelligence. How algorithms are shaping our lives and. How we can stay in control. Have you ever heard a topic discussed on this podcast or anywhere else? In thought. Hey, I'd really like to learn more about that. Well, a great place to learn almost anything is skill share skill share is an online learning community with more than twenty five thousand classes in just about everything today on the podcast. We're talking about how algorithms work and there are classes in skill share on al-gharib coding software. There's even a class specifically on understanding Facebook's algorithm, and there are classes in so many areas mobile, photography, social media, marketing, entrepreneurship, just about anything. You can imagine. I'm just starting the class on mobile photography because I want to take better pictures with my phone and the class is great. If you're something you should know listener, you must like learning. So I have a great offer for you two months of skill share for free. That's right. Skill shares offering something you should know. Listeners two months of unlimited access to over twenty five thousand classes for free to sign up. Go to skill share dot com slash something. Again that skill share dot com slash something to start your two months now. Join me and millions of other students already learning on skill share and get two months for free that skill shared dot com slash something. So Kartik, even if there is bias that works its way into the algorithm. Isn't it still likely going to be better than leaving it up to humans who are just? Chock full of biases in so many different directions. That's a great great point. And I I'm glad you brought it up. I think it's really important to ask. Hey, algorithms have problems than what is the alternative and the alternative is humans, and we know humans have their own set of by sees as you suggest and my method is not so much that hey, we need to get scared about algorithms and run away from them. And there is by the way, a lot of fear mongering about algorithms people. Use terms that suggest that hey, these things that are going on destroy society and so on and I'm not one of those. I'm not an algorithm skeptic. I think first of all we should note that algorithms on average are less biased than human beings. Furthermore, I believe while there isn't yet evidence for it. Because we are just understanding the problem, but I believe in the long run we will have more success in fixing algorithm by sees then. Fixing human vices. But I think the algorithm to have a different kind of problem with human by sees, you know, they don't scale the same way that algorithm by his do. And what I mean by that is that let's say, you're a biased judge, you know, that judge affects the lives of say five hundred people, but you have a biased algorithm that is used in courtrooms all over the US that could affect hundreds of thousands of lives, maybe even millions. If you have a biased recruiter again or a biased banker who's making mortgage approval decisions. Again, they're affect a few hundred people, but an algorithm that can scale meaning it can make decisions for millions of people. You know, the stakes are higher, and so we should be a bit more careful about these biases. But it would seem that a machine could be more objective and come up, maybe not a perfectly objective, but more objective decision than a human. No. That's not necessary. Actually, you could if you're not careful if you're not formally testing for bias, if you're not asking all the right questions, and we'll come to that in a second. You know, how do we address this? It is not necessarily that machine is less biased. In fact, a machine could be could even amplify sees. So it observes a pattern saying that men are more likely to be promoted. And it says, okay, you know, the betas pretty clear that men are the ones who succeeded the workplace, so let's become more aggressive in selecting men and rejecting women, and as just an example, but you can apply to anything mortgage approval, any of these those I'm those by these are very easy to amplify, aren't they very rhythms. Aren't they very easy to eliminate them? If you don't put gender on the application and the machine doesn't know if the applicant is male or female, the bias is gone. It's not that simple. Like because what happens is in fact, every one of these algorithms that have been shown to be biased. They don't actually even have access to the data on which they're biased meaning the algorithm that was used in courtrooms that had a risk bias that algorithm did not have access to raise as a variable. The algorithms that are shown to have a gender bias. They do not have access to the gender of the person. They actually pick up other things that are correlated with these. And so for example, you know, you have the zip code of a person all you have the name of a person it starts to figure it out these patents. So just saying that we're going to hide these variables from the algorithms, which is what a lot of companies do. And that's not sufficient is what we're finding because you know, there's so many ways that getting at people's gender and raised and. All can do that you and if they don't explicitly identify this is my gender or this is my my race. And you know, zip codes tell you that the name of the person tells you that or there's so many other things can't you just take an algorithm and say an and the best way I can think to say, this is lower the standards on everything. So that it it isn't just the algorithm doing it. But the algorithm is weeding out the obvious weeds. And then a person takes the rest and along with the algorithm. They get better results yet, I propose an algorithm Bill of rights, and basically I kind of say here are a few things we should expect an even demand from our algorithms. I mentioned a couple of those like transparency and audits and other one I mentioned is of user control. And I kind of say, you know, engineers are going in the direction of autonomous algorithms because there is this approach that is used by a lot. Product designers and engineers that you know, if we don't involve the user in the decision making process, we're simplifying it so much for the users. They don't they don't have to think about it. So the emphasis has all gone in the direction of completely autonomous algorithms. So the problem with complete autonomy is that it sometimes even hard to detect these and even when you observe it as a user, it's hard to correct this. And so I usually say that it's great that algorithms provide so much value. But let's use them. Let's keep a human in the loop. Are there things going on with algorithms that affect me that I probably don't know about or wouldn't wouldn't suspect are going on I've often run surveys with people asking, you know, to art extent. These algorithms driving your choice, and usually I find that people underestimate their the impact of algorithms on their decisions. Most people think that hey, the algorithms don't. Giving me some recommendations not politely and do what I want. But the data suggests that that actually having a huge impact on our choices. Like, I mentioned eighty percent on of choices on Netflix over a third of the choices on Amazon. And so on the second issue that is somewhat. I would say misunderstood is socially consequential settings. Like, I talked about courtroom position sometimes it's life, and that's decisions, you know, medicine is moving towards, you know, using a lot of algorithms one of the big trends and medicine is personalized medicine so make decisions based on individuals DNA profiles. And so I'll grids will play a huge role there. You know, rich schools. Your kid is assigned to algorithm is often assigning kids, do you know, which is the right public school? And so there's a lot of decisions which policemen. To which precincts, you know, we talked about March approval recruiting and so on. So I think the kid of that impact is not as well. Understood. When I just think about the word algorithms. I remember, you know, all at one time thinking, well, you know, that's an algorithm is is a pretty cool idea. But there it seems to have more of an image problem. Now that there's something that almost seems inherently evil when you hear well, they're using algorithms for that like, oh, wait a minute. Don't you think that that some that the that the sky is falling? And and the people who are saying that I wonder what's the alternative is it still not better than nothing in a you. Hear dumps like algorithms of oppression or algorithms. You know, being the countable algorithms are out algorithms that are destroying society. And I think those are very problematic ways to describe them. And I think it's creating a fear, which is unnecessary and even misleading, you know, people understood. Band that there's a lot of potential value here that we could eliminate huge by season and limitations in human decision. Making and create so much value by using computers to objectively analyze the data. And yes, we have seen many instances of algorithm failures lately. But you know, there is a greater chance that we can correct them. Then we that then correcting human by sees. And Furthermore, there's so many other settings in which they create so much value. So let's not have this fear based conversation. Let's not follow in self pity. Let's talk about solutions and move forward. Is you could imagine people hearing that eighty percent of things people watch on that flicks, our algorithm driven and think, oh, you know, nets Lexus manipulating us on the other hand. Maybe Netflix is just hitting it out of the park and doing a great job giving you recommendations. That you might not otherwise have found and kudos to them. Exactly. And it's very hard to say sometimes which of the two it is. And as long as users are savvy about this. We understand what these algorithms are doing as long as we had a big deliberate about our decisions and not saying I'll use it passively and do whatever it says. But actively engaged, you know, I think it's all fine. I think if algorithms create so much value where instead of spending hours making deficient, you spend seconds making those decisions because they can show you what's relevant and what's not for your decision making. That's great. But as long as we are deliberate about it and not kind of just blindly following them and understand how these algorithms work at high level, again, not the details, but at a high level, understanding, limitations, and insured. They're looking at the right kinds of data. They have you know, again, transparency helps if the say what's the data the algorithm looked at what were the factors that considered most? You know, I. And what were the factors that were less important for it? If we understand that we could say, okay, I'm now happy making this decision in a minute where it would have taken me hours. And boy in we use, you know, some help in all the complex decisions we make every day. Well, I think I've got a better handle now on what Al rhythms are what they do. And what they don't do. And I appreciate you sharing your knowledge. My guest is been Kartik Cussing. He is a professor of technology digital business and marketing at the Wharton school at the university of Pennsylvania, and he's author of the book a human's guide to machine intelligence. How algorithms are shaping our lives and how we can stay in control. There's a link to his book in the show notes. Thank you Kartik. Thanks very much like. Doesn't it just fascinates you? How ideas work and how some ideas make it? Other ideas, just fade away or die on the vine. I love the idea of ideas. And so does chip heath and his brother, Dan, Dan, was a guest a few years ago here talking about special moments in life, and today chip is here to talk about ideas. The two brothers have co authored several books including made to stick. Why some ideas thrive and others die? They chip welcome. So how did you in your brother, Dan, how did you decide to work together on the idea of ideas, we're ten years apart, and we discovered that we had this common interest in what makes some ideas stick with people? And and so both of us had had experience at trying to teach in in and get our ideas across and watching other people succeed and some fail. So explain what you mean. And maybe some examples would help of ideas that stuck and maybe some ideas that didn't stick dick JFK's man on the moon speech. The boy cried wolf eighth up stapled stuck for twenty five hundred years. The this is your brain on drugs campaign from the eighties. There are lots of ideas that stick. And if you wanna look for ideas, they didn't stick think back to what you remember about the last presentation, you saw or the last memo that you read probably zero and so understanding that ideas are very different very diverse. Is there some sort of common thread that that applies to ideas that make it and ideas that don't there are there are some common principles underlying idea? So one of the most common that we see is very concrete tangible images that you can see in your mind or or imagine. So when John F Kennedy talks about putting a man on the moon. That puts an image in your mind, when they used the edge in this is your brain on drugs campaign, and you saw it drop into the Skillet in you heard this method tangible concrete image, but unfortunately, most of us when we try to communicate our ideas, we talk and obstructions in that prevents ideas from sticking. Use the example and explain the difference between. Average Joe CEO talking about needing to increase shareholder value versus something more concrete like herb Kelleher. When he founded Southwest Airlines. His big thing was that we are the low-fare airline. So there is a principle called the curse of knowledge that we talk about in the book, when we become experts, we think about the world and NASDAQ ways, so if you've ever had a conversation with IT guy about what's wrong with your computer. He knows what he's talking about. But he talks about it at such an abstract level. And what you're wanting him to do is to tell you which button to press to fix the problem. And so the CEO who's talking about maximizing shareholder value is hearing a song playing in his mind. That's not coming across to the rest of us. What we need somebody. Like herb Kelleher to say, you know, we are about being the low cost airlines. I remember hearing some time ago in you talk about it in the book to the problem of giving people choices one of the things that we found in researching the book is that if people have to good choices there actually less likely to choose either. If they have one good choice, and so many times in life where confronted with, you know, eight core values for organizations or thirteen point policy plan by. Titian? How are we going to make choices about priorities when we're confronting that many options, and you just pointed out that it it's like you need a lot of decisions to screw you up. Just two screws you up. Yeah. Even to does it because because choice brings on this paralysis right talk about decision paralysis. And there's just lots of research that says that even to good options makes us much like less likely to choose either in. I know you talk about it. And I've heard other people talk about the idea that when you're trying to get your point across when you're trying to convince people to pay attention simple is better. And yet when we do it. We tend to explain things to death, and that's the curse of knowledge kicking in again as an expert, we know so much. So when we're talking to our kids about about why it's important to to keep an honest name or were coaching youth. Sports leagues. The reason we got to be a coach is because we. We know a lot about the sport. But as a beginner what you need to do is focus on one principle that we need to learn this week or this month, and I've seen that like when coaches coach little league, or they coached soccer. They sometimes overwhelm the kids with so much information that it's hard to really grasp what they need to learn. And you talk about, you know, finding your core message if you remembered the Jared subway sandwich campaign, the core of their message is we have really healthy fast food and the campaign before Jared the story about this guy who diets down from four hundred twenty five pounds to one hundred ninety pounds was a slogan seven sandwiches under six grams of fat subway had found the core of their message. But they implemented in very different ways in the story of Jared with that concrete image of this guy holding out these enormous pants that stuck with people the seven sandwiches under six grams of fat didn't stick with any. One because no one can relate to seven grams of fat. I mean, I don't even know what that is. Or what it looks like really, exactly? And when we're doing our presentations at work, very often, we're more in the seven grams seven seventy s under six grams of fat arena. We Marshall are facts. We get lots of details together when what's really going to stick with our audience and lead them to take action is story or concrete example. There is something that happens that is really fascinated me for a long time, and it can happen. Whether you're writing a report for work or a paper for school, or it even applies to podcasting where people get so into it. So close to it. They make it hard for people to really understand what they're trying to say. And this is an old newspaper problem that that you talk about there's an occupational hazard that reporter's face, and it's called burying the lead. And this happens a lot with reporters who've done lots of research for a store. Okay. So you're a Washington journalist, and you've done a lot of research for a story about politics, very often. The thing that is most relevant for the reader ends up way down in the story. In editors call that burying the lead the trick as journalist and the trick for all of us is to get the most important new piece of information. The most central core idea in that first sentence in that first paragraph of the story and reporters become very good at that. But most of us don't have the experience of prioritizing when we write an Email to somebody or when we give speech we should accept that same discipline that journalists have. Of Nora Ephron. The writer journalist filmmaker Nora Ephron was a high school journalist and her first day in class. This is a first experiences at journalists. She walks in the teacher immediately gives them assignment. He gives them a set of facs that next Thursday the principal. Beverly Hills high school has announced that the faculty will travel to Sacramento on a cloak Liam about new teaching methods. Margaret needs going to be there, the California governor Pat Brown is going to be there in what he asked him to do with this list of facts is to create a lead for a story. And so students worked way most of them just reordered the facts high school, principal Arnesen Brown has announced that the faculty will be traveling next. Thursday's see a colloquium by Margaret Mead and governor Jerry Brown. Now, he collects all those any ripples through them at the front of the class. And he looks at class and says the lead of the story is there is no school neck. Thursday. They had all missed it. You know, they were getting bogged down in the facts, and they hadn't thought about the implications of those facts in conveyed that to a reader that was her first lesson as a journalist and has a good first lesson for the rest of us as a teacher. I you know, if I had one moment in a decade of teaching that is as good as that exercise. I would I would hang up my head and call it a day. And so you say that good ideas have some things in common. What we find is that successful, ideas of all kinds ranging from urban legends, two important, religious ideas. Too sticky political ideas have six things in common. They're simple their unexpected there concrete their credible. They tap into motions and many come in the form of stories and imagine if when people were trying to convey, their idea tell their story, if they kept those six things in mind, how much better it would be then this kind of usual, abstract way, we talk. And so when we're working with our kids when we're working with our co workers, very often, they don't share all the knowledge that we have. I mean, we've spent weeks or months getting the right idea at work, or we spend years accumulating experience, we're trying to pass along as parents. And so very often, we tend to talk and abstract ways, we tell our kids, you know, having a good name and a good reputation is really important and what they're hearing, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. Now, the story ace house fable about the boy who cried wolf has been conveying that sentiment for twenty five hundred years or more, and it's probably a much more effective than are very abstract pieces of advice. And even things like one in the hand is worth two in the Bush or or the golden rule. These things have been around for a long time because they follow the rules that you're talking about. And then they cut across cultural boundaries, very often. We think you know, we've been taught by marketers that you have to segment your message and know your target audience. But there are things that all of us have in common and something like a bird in the hand is worth two in the Bush is in fifty three different languages. It's a it's an idea that resonates with people because it's concrete, and it talks about a trade off that we make in life about do. We take the sheer bird in the hand. Or do we take a risk on trying to catch the two in the Bush, and it's very visual? You can picture the bird in the hand in the Bush. It's very visual. Exactly. It's a little bit unexpected. So it has at least three of the properties that we've talked about and the golden rule and the golden rule is a classic important piece of advice that has changed people's behavior for a long time. And it's easy. I. Picture how we would want to be treated. And and so if we can use that to treat other people we're going to be way ahead. Have you ever come across an idea that disobeyed the rules that you're talking about here, and and still succeeded? I haven't come across with an idea that violates them. It's certainly true that false ideas can very often have many of these properties in succeed wildly. So one of my favorite, false ideas. Is you only use ten percent of your brain? Now who did that research study yet all of us have heard that? And I've talked to people in Indonesia in Japan and Turkey that have heard it in their own culture. But if ninety percent of the stuff up there was cushioning football players wouldn't need helmets. If we think about why that idea succeeds. It's simple. It's got a little bit of credibility. Because at that ten percent sounds really specific somebody must have done research on that. And more importantly, really really unexpected. We all think of the brain is in an important, Oregon. And so the idea that that we're not using ninety percent of it really sticks with us, and yet it's total baloney at total baloney. I wonder where it did start. Actually, there folklore that have studied this kind of thing and the earliest account of this that has been found we might think that this is you know, goes back to the eighties. When we started becoming interested in the brain and brain imaging actually, folklore traced that idea in our culture back to nineteen twenty four. So this is an idea that's been circulating for eighty years at least with no advertising dollars, no public relations assistance, and yet it's revise and spread on its own. That's kind of a definition of an urban legend exactly so urban legends. Rumors, but also on the positive side, the proverbs that we were talking about really that provide useful advice or every religious tradition has a set of stories that help people live better more moral life. You know, what's interesting is when I listened to you speak when anybody would listen to you speak and look at the book yet. You have to come to the conclusion that that this sounds right. This makes a lot of sense. But I haven't heard anybody put it all together this way before although you do give a tip of the hat to Malcolm. Glad well. Glad we did a great job in the tipping point at at talking about the idea of stickiness that social epidemics become f- Deming because they stick with people in what Dan, and I because of our backgrounds have been interested in is really that question. How do we get our ideas across in in surveying? You know, the greatest hits of humanity on sticky ideas, ranging from the bible to ace up to to modern ideas like JFK's man on the moon speech. What we found were we kept seeing the same principles. We kept saying the concrete imagery, we kept seeing the emotional time. We kept seeing that many of these come in the form of stories, and eventually we struggle with it enough to realize that there is deep underlying consistency. And I enjoyed the example that you gave about TV remotes the curse of knowledge is really will exemplify by the engineers who create TV remote controls. I mean who can use that thing other than the engineer that initially designed it and the reason is. Is because the experts trying to pack as much as they can into their product. And what the rest of us need is a really simple device another device that has similar properties with the original palm pilot that founder of that team that created the palm pilot used to walk around encouraging his engineers to keep that device. Simple. It only did four things, but it did them really. Well, he actually had a kind of visual proper that you would carry with them. He had a block of wood in the shape that they wanted the palm pilot to be and every time an engineer would propose an additional feature. He'd pulled out the block of wooden say, where's it going to fit on this device? We're not gonna have we're not gonna have room for peripheral ports. We're not gonna have room for an extended keyboard. We're designing a really simple elegant device and you talk about and I've talked with other guests on this podcast about the importance in the magic of stories that when you wanna make a point. It's better to tell a story then to give facts and figures that stories stories. Magic. They are magic in in in doing the research. What we found is that a way of thinking about stories is that their flight, simulators for our brains. It's you can tell your kids, you know, truth telling is really important. But if you tell them the story of the boy who cried wolf they are living through and seeing that they themselves are learning to distrust, this boy whose repeatedly crying wolf, and it's not surprising at the end of the story that the ending is bad because you predicted it all along. And so which is better telling people in abstract piece of advice or letting them experience it in this kind of mental flight simulator, and yet I can imagine someone listening to you and saying will he's just dumbing everything down. He's trying to take everything and make it into an over simplified boy who cried wolf kind of explanation, and some things just don't fit that they're more complicated than that. Well, nobody accuses the golden rule of being. Soundbite. So there is a sense in which we only find the real core of our message. The essence of an idea a man on the moon in decade is really simple idea. But it also encapsulated lots of hopes and aspirations of the whole nation, and that's the standard that we want to aspire to dump soundbites or dumb, but really important core ideas can transform people in societies. There are times in everyone's life when they have to make their point sell their idea, and you've made it pretty clear, why some ideas stick, and why some ideas, don't she apiece has been my guest, he along with his brother. Dan are authors of the book made to stick? Why some ideas thrive and others die? You'll find a link to the book in the show notes. Unless you're lying down right now, you're probably either. Well, you have to be either sitting or standing and the question is are you sitting or standing up straight? You should check your posture because bad posture can really screw things up. Here are some surprising side effects of slumping people who walk with bad posture report feeling more depressed and have lower energy levels. Slouching can raise your blood pressure by inhibiting blood circulation. Chronics lumper's often wind up with leaky bladders due to weakened muscles. Poor posture can give you heartburn by pushing everything up towards the Asaf Agha's slouching can also trigger headaches asthma attacks because it can inhibit oxygen intake bad posture can even take a toll on your confidence and concentration students who sit ups. Straight for tests tend to score better than those who slouch, and that is something you should know questions comments or just to say, hi, you can always Email me. My direct Email is Mike at somethingyoushouldknow dot net. And there is also a contact form on the website, which is something you should know dot net. I'm Mike Carruthers. Thanks for listening today to something you should know.

Netflix Engineer Amazon ADT professor Facebook Wharton school university of Pennsylvania Dan Kartik Haas Mike carruthers US wolf Intel official herb Kelleher Bush Nora Ephron Jared Somethingyoushouldknow
Best-Selling Author of 8 Books (Kevin Freiberg) Teaches the Southwest Airlines Super Systems for Success

Thrivetime Show | Business School without the BS

47:59 min | 1 year ago

Best-Selling Author of 8 Books (Kevin Freiberg) Teaches the Southwest Airlines Super Systems for Success

"Rob nation on today's show. We're interviewing the man the myth the legend the best silicone of eight books. He's leadership expert sought after speaker. He's the man with the plan. And he's on today's show. He's a business. Cyber. I'm shows don't need a celebrity narrator to introduce the show they show. Two-man eight kids co created by two different women thirteen multimillion dollar businesses. Ladies and gentlemen. Welcome to thrive time Shaw. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Dr nation on today's show. We are interviewing the legendary best selling author the incredible the wonderful, the wouldn't only Mr. Kevin Freiburg. Kevin. How are you, sir? Doing Greg plain yourself today has been a great day. Today's been a every day. I think is an entrepreneur is an adventure. But we had a lot of winds here. A lot of exciting winds in the thrive nation, and you being the pinnacle of the winds my friends, so thank you for investing party or dying. Well, you villagers out there that aren't familiar? I mean, you do these deep dives into what makes organizations and company successful. That are epic you and your wife work on these books together. And I want to ask you when did it occur to you? Or winded occurred to your wife that you too would team up to become fulltime nonfiction business authors. Well, I think long long time ago, I hate to say it that way. But I had a passion for being in the speaking business and realize that didn't want it to be a motivational speaker wanted to do something at up than deep background research started that and we launched it with a book called nuts, and we just got so busy right away. Jackie left her role, the university and came to work with me and we've been doing it really ever since. And she just makes me better. So I'm glad she made that choice few will you wrote the book nuts? Southwest Airlines crazy recipe for business impersonal success that was in nineteen ninety seven I believe, and I just started my first company called DJ connection dot com in nineteen ninety nine and my uncle John John flu he was. He was a pilot. He retire. A pilot for Southwest Airlines. Who's a navy pilot and the right after the navy win to fly for southwest, and I saw on a shelf, and I thought I read this book. And so as I was reading the book nuts it blew me away. How much access you had to southwest, and it was so actionable, and I implemented a lot of things alerted in that book. What inspired you to first study Southwest Airlines into right? Such an epic deep dive book. You know, your insightful, and you realize we had some unprecedented access in that book is, you know, we just lost her Kelleher on January third this year, the founder of south southwest. Probably know or there's no person in the world right now. Jackie and I would say had a bigger influence on our careers on our thinking about business and about life really than her been. It all started with I was travelling in and out of Texas from out Booker key with a Spanish boot manufacturer trying to stab with a distribution company here in the US and I flew on south west. And I knew I was going to go to graduate school studying business and from the tation and long story short. I met a flight attendant who said well, you need to come down to our company and made Herbie. I'm going who that heck is Herbie and the more she began to describe the company, the culture, and certainly the personality of herb Kelleher. I just said, well, I have to go to and see him. And that's what started it all with culminated in doctoral dissertation back in nineteen eighty seven for me and four years later. Jackie wrote, another one on broader perspective of the company. But by the time, we got to nuts we'd written to doctoral dissertations and do them pretty well. And we're just forever grateful that they gave a couple of greenhorn authors and paternity liked to do because you've had such a deep dive access such a all access pass into the company. I would love to see if you could break down three herb killer. Notable quotas for me, a ones that I have you know, in my office here. Yeah. I when he talked about and I'm quoting her. He said, treat your employees like customers, could you? Explain to the thrive nation what that means. Yeah. You know, early on I actually cornered her when bay like you could ever corner right corner. And I said heard who comes I really your mind employees the customers. He didn't. Blink an eye. Just said, it's always employs. Because if you treat you employs, right? And you treat them like the internal customers that they are. And give them the same deference and honor intrigued them with the same kind of dignity that you would a customer. They're gonna take care of your customers. And guess what? When they do that shareholders become pretty happy. So you know, he looked at it in a in a hierarchy of employees customers shareholders. And I think he got that. Right. Herb also went on to say, he says, you don't hire for skills you hire for attitude. You always teach skills that really impacted my business DJ connection dot com. Helped us grow and scale the company before I sold it. Can you talk about that means don't hire for skills and trained for attitude? Yeah. You know, the in that case, you you can train people to be a data agent. You can train people through, you know, type ratings to fly seven thirty seven and everything in between to fix him the mechanic the resolution, but what you can't train is the character and the raw personality that someone brings to the business, and you probably know those are people who multiply their people who add their people who divide their people who subtract true true. They want that they want entrepeneurship people who are going to multiply and add to the to the culture because culture is their secret weapon and it's a secret weapon because it's hard to replicate ride wit can fly seven thirty sevens. We can you know, reverse engineer, your your training process for flight attendants and copy that but what you can't copy is the spirit of the joint the. Sinology of the of the company, and that comes from the kind of people that you bring into the family. And so there. Klay. I'll tell you. This is typically true. It's easier to get into Harvard and Yale than it is to get into Southwest Airlines because they have so many people applying when you build a Jackie night. Call a branded culture, a culture company where the culture is famous as the products and services in services that she sell when you have a brand culture, then you have an opportunity to cherry pick, right because you have more people knocking on the door, and you can let in and you can afford to be incredibly selective. And that's what keeps the culture here. My uncle who worked for Southwest Airlines as a pilot. He told me that Southwest Airlines. They have the three he's three moves. They do. And I said one of the three move. He said if you if you work at southwest, your funny, or at least appreciate humor you like to get stuff ton and you want to help lower costs. Could you talk about that? I mean when they interviewed people how do they find these? Funny. Upbeat people that want to lower costs. Well, you know, they start with a psychological contract in the interviewing process, which I think is just the right? Kind of crazy if you will. And it goes like this if you're interviewing they would say something to affect of play if you wanna come to work here, you are never going to have enough resources to do what we're going to ask you to do. But that's who we are were in Vader's were pioneers. And we take great pride and whereas badge of honor doing more with less. Finding a way to get great things done with limited resources. Now, if you don't like that, no sweat. We will always love you as a customer, you just may not be fit as an employee. But if that kind of thing turns you on then you may be fit for us. And it's just one way that they can begin to determine when people react to that kind of statement. Right. They can start to determine whether or not you have the kind of entrepreneurial spirit that's going to add value to the company. Kevin I want to tell you specifically how you impacted my business 'cause I know you wrote this book in nineteen Ninety-seven. And I sold the company DJ connection in two thousand seven we grew it to be the Americas, America's largest, wedding, entertainment company, deejays and entertainment sound lights for weddings. And so here are four ways you impacted me because I know you never get a chance to hear this from your people who implement your book, but one you wrote about south southwest only. Fly seven thirty sevens. So I switched where every system was the same and it dramatically decreased my maintenance costs. It was awesome merit based pay paying people based on what they do not versus what not not based on what they say. They're going to do. So I implemented merit based pay south southwest went ticketless. And I thought how can I go ticketless? I know what I do. I'm not wanna do all Email people receipts. But I'm not gonna invoice back in the day, the wedding industry would invoice the mother of the bride they would mail. You a check it was this whole process of collecting the. And I went ticketless so to speak, and then the funny overhead announcements, I thought to myself, I need to make our company funny Swede funding on hold music, funny, presentations, and it all worked. So I just want to tell you. Thank you so much for it in that book. Thank you for taking it seriously and doing something with it and implementing it, that's you know, a lot of people read business books insult, and they don't do anything with. It sounds like you've got tremendous tracks and execute that book is is was worth thousands. And I believe I bought the book early. This was like I wanna say pre Amazonean for me. I think I bought this at Barnes and noble side. Probably if I paid if I bought the book for twenty five dollars, do you make about a dollar on that or how that probably? Oh, yeah. Well, I hate to tell you that. Yeah. That's about right. You don't make a lot of beating yourself. Money elsewhere. But you know, what we right to have an impact and your music to my ears because you're the kind of person that we love to hear from we want to have an impact, we don't, you know, we don't write for egos are self-aggrandizement we really want to the deep dive into these companies to say, you know, if we can move the needle even just a few people in their lifetime legacy. You know? That's that's okay. I want to ask you this. Because the way you write you wrote that book, and what you've written your subsequent books. It's very well researched. What is your process like for researching and preparing to write a book wasn't look like walk us through a few steps. I just let my wife right him and edited you words and take credit not. There we go. Then. That is the tip there. It is. So. No, well, I'm being facetious. But she plays a critical role. I think the, you know, what different shapes our for maybe from others is is we don't write about anybody that we have not been in lifted up the hood press the flesh and really gone deep into the company, and you know, been there. I just. This may be a little bit of an aside. But I just attended a lecture by the probably the best journalists of our time right now of what? And he made a comment in his luxury said, you know, one of the keys to investigative journalism is you gotta show up. He says we do so much of our work now via the internet techs and whatnot. And he said there's just no substitute for looking someone in the icy in the emotion in their face. Listen to the tone of voice watching how other people react to them when you're on site in person. And so part of our processes always been to show up. And so we're not gonna write about people that we've just researched on Google, or whatever it's we have to be there. And no, and we've turned down a lot of books frankly over a twenty year period, we just we just turned down one from a major company just because it just didn't feel like it was going to be fit. So part of it is so part of it is you have to get some kind of sense that this company is living message that you're. Passionate about and want to portray out there. Because clout tell you it's pretty lonely when you're sitting in your office looking at a blank computer screen that you gotta turn into chapter rights and then into fourteen more chapter. So you better be passionate about what you're writing about. Or it's just not gonna come across. So that's where we start we start there. And then we and then it's it's really kind of evolutionary process to say, okay. What are some of the makers teams that are unfolding from this deep background research, and and how to start to craft that into the framework for a book where do you write your books? Do you do you man cave? A did you ever Yuna cabin? Are you on a boat where do you like to write your books? Jack. And I both right in our offices in on airplanes. I would say the two primary places. You know, it's interesting. I get more done on airplanes probably than I do anywhere else. Because I can just put the headphones on, you know, put my nose to the grindstone, and you're not interrupted by phone calls and emails and all those other things that happened to all of us during the course of the day. But so we got on airplanes. And we and we ride in our offices just because we have at our fingertips. I don't know a library of probably three thousand books that we can look at poll from being sponsored by do you work out of your house, or do you have an office that separate from your home? We have all not always we tried working out of our house for a while. And just said. Not sure why we are doing that. No one. You know, I work is is outside. Even speaking work. We're traveling to the coin so long story short. We we've found a home that had a couple offices already in it and part of San Diego. And that's what we did. We've bought the home based on the offices. That's that's awesome. I think that's an insight people when there's a lot of Spiring authors that listen to our show who wanna know those curious about where these great literary works. Come from now on page, fourteen the book nuts, I have some things highlighted there. You wrote or maybe Jackie wrote new credit for somebody wrote selfless airlines was the brainchild of rollin king. A San Antonio entrepreneur who owned a small computer air service in his banker. John Parker Pirker had complained to king that it was inconvenient and inexpensive to travel between Houston, Dallas, and San Antonio and suggested starting an intrastate airline. That right there. I did not know that when I read that I've looked for you to share more about this story in why these two guys went from just having a conversation that we should start an airline to why they actually did it. Rawling had the idea of her was a young very young at the time. Brilliant attorney grown up in New York, but moved to Texas. And they just said this is a market that isn't being served, and I think it both it emanates book from both of their egalitarian spirits. It was like, you know, in those days flying lose any league thing. It was for the people that were wealthy for the most part. And they said what if we go left on red here and fill a part of the market that isn't being filled and what you're. Listeners today may not understand is that hurt Kelleher. Incorporate after they had the famous discussion where they drew a triangle on the napkin, which was their first row structure between San Antonio Dallas and Houston herb was thirty six and in poor paraded Southwest Airlines. And for the next five years they had a hundred and forty three to digital in administrative proceedings. All the way to the US supreme court because three major carriers braniff continental and Texas international colluded to keep this little upstart from ever getting off to ground and the more. They fought the harder Kelleher dug in and it was an affront his spirit of his Galateri -tarian spirit was an affront to democratize in the skies. And if they just left them alone. I'm pretty sure that the south west would have just bleh. Ed money and gone away. But what they did was they they confronted her calendars fierce, competitiveness and sense of idealism. And then Southwest Airlines was born what's very interesting those three carriers are gone today. Right. And southwest is the most successful airline in the world. I am glad they're gone too. They they were not fun to fly on. Now. I will say this is I mean is silly. I grew up in Oklahoma. And I moved to Minnesota about the age of twelve and I remember, saving all my money, all my money. Kevin when I was thirteen years old to fly from Minnesota back to also to visit my friends and the tickets VIN. We're more than they are now true story. So I have a big appreciation for south west because they have dramatically lowered the the cost of traveling everywhere. I mean, the the the prices of flying are so low now, I mean, it used to be something that only the elite. It could do. And now, it's very very affordable. Could you share with from your perspective looking at it and looking at all the data and spinning years researching about the impact you think southwest has made on just the mobility of the average American and the lowering the costs of flying. Yeah. It's one of the things that totally impressed this early on with them. And they you know, they they have really taken that whole cost structure low fares and are low cost to create row fares and made it a cause a noble heroic. 'cause and they would call it the business of freedom. And I'll tell you what that looks like when we were doing research for this. We had a twenty something year old rampage and probably didn't have more than a high school education. I don't remember exactly. But he said Kevin. We don't have statistical significance on this show on. He's looking at the research or right? He's statistical significance, but I can tell you on average that about one out of every seven or eight of these little Disney pull on bags that we put on a belt roader and load the plane comes from a child in a broken home in if we. We don't put these bags on the airplane on time. And we don't turn this airplane back in those days. It was ten minutes. Now, it's more like twenty five. We don't turn this airplane on time. That means that we're going to put more airplanes in the system, which means we're gonna have to find the money to pay for those airplanes, which is going to come out of ticket increases the cost and tickets, and that little boy or little girl is not gonna be able to fly between mom and dad who's geographically separated. And that's an affront to the business of freedom. And I thought my gosh, if the twenty year old rampage in gets it at that level, and they create a critical mass of employees who understand the movement and the cons behind the movement. That is their secret sauce. The that's a very powerful concept. Ten minute turn want to get it on a deep passionate level. That's one thing. That's that's getting a twenty year old employ to being gauge. Yeah. I mean, according to Gallup, they say what sixty seven percent of American employees are not engaged at work you the research. So to get somebody twelve years old to be engaged. That's that's powerful. But then to pull it off. Can you explain how the ten minute turn? I don't think maybe some of the listeners are familiar with that terminology. You explain about the ten minute turn. And then why today alternately is a twenty five minute turn. Yeah. They as I said all these judicial administrative proceedings all the way to the US court. Let the company dry they had a hundred forty three dollars in the Bank and her telling her who is the lawyer at the time said to the board. Let's go one more round with these SOB's. I'll do legal work pro Bono because we're not going to let them get by with this. Lamar news CEO at the time. They were flying four Boeing seven thirty sevens. And Lamar figured out that if they could sell one of those laws dollar profit, the keep the cash flow going for a few weeks. And so they went out and did that they sold the airplane. And now they had three seven thirty sevens. But they went up to the ground crews, and they said guess what we're going to maintain the same schedule three airplanes that we did with four and everybody said how do that they said, well, you're not to figure out how to turn an airplane in ten minutes average. Turn time for an airplane. In that timeframe in that day was forty five minutes. So plane lands refill. It plane lands clean it ref-. You'll it the whole thing maintenance check it in ten minutes. That's right. Everybody to the person that takes care of the laugh that the provisioning the fielders the gate agents who board and deplane passengers the guy that that people would drive the tugs all that happens comes into the plane happen simultaneously. And so they said, yeah. Figure turn an airplane in ten minutes. And everybody said how you gonna do that? And they said, we don't know. But we know you're gonna figure it out. 'cause you don't we're gonna fire you, and this was a good old boy as of the airlines they said, you don't wanna fight a unit. Get somebody else in here that can figure out where would you go? If you wanted to figure out how to turn an airplane with all that activity in ten minutes. They went to the drew inspiration. From the pit crews at Indy because what happens at the pit crews in Indy is the driver comes in hits a mock right and who comes in the pneumatic wrench person that pots tires. The Gatorade person sticks in the window. The windshield wiper the people who Jack up the car, boom, boom, boom. It happens point two seconds in. They're out of that pitting on the races. One in the pit not on the track. And so south west that men if we can station an airplane to hit its Mark, the talks, you know, that hold the wheels on time and all these people can come in simultaneously the laugh gate feeler, boom, boom, boom. We can turn an airplane ten minutes, and that was that gave birth to the ten minutes turn which was just a phenomenal innovation at that point in time in the industry, which by the way gave birth to the DJ nation. Fifteen minute turn we had all our disc jockeys up to eighty per weekend. Loading up there. Every fifteen minutes. I couldn't get down to ten because. Hey, these guys were just flying airplanes. I'm deejays, right? And it's much more complicated digit. I seriously to take. Yeah. Yeah. No. I did. I put everything in the book everything. Yeah. The the the competition for the funniest announcements we had a competition for the best the the bride who reviewed are DJ's being the funniest guy. I mean, we took the whole I mean, this was like this book. I have so many notes some day when you come to Tulsa on your next tourist visit to see our sod farms. I will show you you copy of your book that I have desecrated or edited or taking so many notes in that book that really it's kind of an ethical what I've done to your book, but it helped me so much. It was off a gold medal for the best implementation of ever taken to task. Oh, you're gonna you're gonna love this. It's gotta come to tell us. I will show it to you. It is it is the best entire company DJ connection dot com. They no longer own. It's an all these different cities. Probably seventy five percent of it was stolen from that book. Now check this out in the in your book, you talked about how the company spent half. Half of their budget half of their seven hundred thousand dollar budget in the first month, and they need to create word of mouth that would really take off. So what I did was after the bride's wedding. It was highly legal, by the way, Kevin. But I would send the prides coffee of all the songs I played at their wedding on a CD with a outback gift certificate that I worked out via trade out. And I took a photo from the photographer, and I put it on the CD. So after your wedding, you get back, and you got a forty dollar gift certificate in a CD of all your music and brides just refer me to everybody. And it was awesome. Because my wife, and I had three jobs. We're gonna target Applebee's direct TV I worked at Applebee's target and direct TV Vanessa's working at Office Depot and oral Roberts university. And we turned off the air conditioning to afford advertisement. So I read this. I was like how's he going to do it? How's it going to do it late? How southwest did this? How did they what kind of outrageous stuff? Did they do to get people talking? Well, one of the big things, they did was, you know, I think it was they had a nineteen dollars fare between these three cities and the the major carriers brand continental Texas international all came in and said, well, we're going to do it for fifteen thinking that they could create a price war and push them right out of the market. So southwest knew that they had a lot of business travelers flying that were on an expense account. Right. Right. So they said no by the ticket from us for nineteen dollars. But we'll give you a fifth of whiskey vodka, whatever your libation of choices free with your ticket. Well, all these guys are on expensive counts. Right. So they're just gonna expense nineteen dollars to their expense budget and go home with the bottle of whiskey and for I think forty five days thereabouts, Southwest Airlines was the largest liquor distributor in the state of Texas. But like, you it created that you know, if we were on they had the internet in those days, and so for media, it would have gone viral like in a nanosecond in a went viral anyway because everybody got excited about it and said that is such a hoot talk to me about the the outfits worn by the early flight attendants because those were also quite a those third quite a controversy. Well, they would today. This just never fly. It would be considered sexist, and they probably be eaten alive for. But in those days they had hot pan. They had flight attendants wore hot pants, and they hired pretty attractive people. And you know, as as we talked about hiring for attitude people were the personality big personality. And so I think people got on the airplanes they said man, these guys are different, you know, most of these airlines, stuffing and. They're sterile. And it's no fun. And it's all business. These guys are like fun and wearing hunt pants wearing casualwear. And they just you know, when you get on an airplane like that it relaxes the whole environment for you people who travel a lot, right? I mean, we're on airplanes every week we get work done. But let me tell you. It's a stuffy environment. Most airlines if you can get on somebody can say, we would have to take the edge off forty man, we want we want you to fun on this flight who are you going to fly, you know, the stuffy one of the the airline that sings things their safety announcements. And so I think that was all born in those early days when they allowed side. Now you. In your book. I mean that that book just that book if you're out there thrive nation, and you do not invest the twenty five dollars to buy a copy this on Amazon dot com. Andrew by another one right now is is a thank you gift here by another one whereby an injury is going to buy another one right now as we're doing this show. I enjoy are you are you buying the book there? Are you getting right now in the book? Okay, we go. If you're out there listening today, and you buy this book and you implement even one fiftieth of what is it? What is in this book? I promise you, it can dramatically enhance your book, and you could have sat there and said, Kevin, you know, I wrote that book things are good. I'm just gonna sit back in a hammock and just but no you moved on. And you guys have written some unbelievable books. I would like for you to kind of steer the conversation for a moment of of the books that you've been writing recently, can you walk us through the books you've written since then. And most of our listeners are entrepreneurs they own a business say the average listener owns eight company. What are some of the books you've written that you would recommend our listeners checkout in? Why? Yeah. Thank you for asking southwest kind of ruined us. I will tell you because they were it was such a they they tell their own story. So well that we just. You know, we documented it, but the, but what it did for us. Is it created a paradigm if you will or I think the research agenda that said we want to go after companies that are doing things in the marketplace that everybody else is can't be done. So really cool. Renegade companies that are winning when everybody else thinks there's no way you can do that. So that's the theme that rolls through all of our eight books. We read in a book called guts that highlights a whole lot of companies similar to Southwest Airlines one of which is GS GM southwest adage and see who is every bit as creative, and renegade. Like, south west. That's a collage of number of companies KIRO forward, we wrote a book called man ovation about a company in India that built a car for US twenty five hundred dollars. In the cause of the car was travelling Indian many of the third world countries. You'll find that. Families of four five and six ride the same motorcycle. Say motor scooter one hundred thousand people die every year on two wheelers in India, alone and return Totta one of the great industrial is one of the great. Entrepreneurs of India's said what if we could build a safe affordable car for just slightly more than the cost of that motorcycle? And no one thought they could do it. Yeah. No one thought everybody said it'll be an apology car. It'll be a piece of crap you'll ever get it done all the US and global auto CEO's kinda laughed at this project and long story short. They developed the Totta Nanno. It's a five seater. Jackie driven it on their test track in India, and it sold initially for twenty three hundred US dollars, gut fifty five miles to the gallon. Really? And was really an incredible story. The car. Has since not done. Very well. So wanna be honest with your listeners, and it has not done well for a variety of reasons that we probably don't have time to impact right now. But it was still an engineering in incredible engineering feat. And so none of Asian talks about that. And then racing Florida. This gave you one other most recent book has been with our dear friend boost Boccioni who won three world champion manage in San Francisco Giants, and he is herb like as any leader. We have met cares about his players doesn't see them as just tradable commodities and took a roster that on paper really could not compete with some of the other true major league baseball teams like the dodgers. And the Boston Red Sox and the Yankees and won three world championships in five years. And it really is not a book about base. Ball as much as it is a book about business and team chemistry. And how do you get a team to gel because he's a master at a bit about what we've been up to over the last one. There's another book that you wrote that I have stolen even more ideas out of this this book, I this book, I think he can buy this book ammo, Andrew again on Amazon, we could buy this book for like, you know, twenty dollars right now. And if the implement even warning Andrew check. Listen, I'm not gonna go as far as to say that. Hey, if you're listening today, and you're not a knucklehead you should buy this book. But I'm gonna say. I would strongly suggest you go without three Starbucks beverages in purchase next book 'cause caused this book 'cause let's 'cause Tom shoes. Lululemon virgin Southwest Airlines the book, can you explain to listeners what this book is all about because it does a deep dive case study on so many great companies, but what's this book about at its core? The major company again, we went deep and broad was a client. For group. They are the fastest most successful growing insurance company in the nation today, and you think assurance man, those they're going to be more boring than insurance insurance is kind of like root canal. It's you know, it's necessary you need it. But nobody wants it. Right. These guys have just done an incredible an incredible thing. But the the premise of the book, and I think this is true for all the entre preneurs that are listening to your show and follow you. If we can every business, we think can be driven by a cause if you dig deep enough to find it, you know, and southwest case, it was the business of of freedom if you can find that cause and get people caught up in it. What follows is a movement. And here's the thing about movements people opt into movements. They don't have to be on swaddled. They don't have to be hog tied. You don't have to put him in a headlock and get them to quote unquote buying in. They're already in because their personal value. So identify with the values that are driving the cause and alternately creating the movement. So the question we ask in that book is what if you stop talking about your company as a business corporation? What did you talk about it as a full blown noble heroic? 'cause that drew people in opted people into a movement think of the competitive advantage of that you you quoted. Earlier the Gallup statistic. Seventy five percent of the workforce is either disengage or actively disengaged, which means they're sabotaging. What's going on in the business? So our view Jackie's in mind is that, you know, over all these years, we really haven't cracked the code on engagement because the engagements pistons have not really changed in twenty years since Gallup started doing that of. And I'm not here to tell you that we think we have the silver bullet. But we think it is eight so ver bullet, and that is when you lay your head on a pillow at the end of the day. Don't you wanna know that you move to needle don't you want to know that you made a contribution to your business? Don't you want to know that it did something in your work, then made the world better? And I'm not sound like pollyanna and idealism and apple pie to your listeners. But if you really talk to people that's what they want and work they want meaning they want significance. They wanna lay their head of the pillow. And no they moved the needle through. So I answer to that is in the in the book causes figure out what your cause is find a cause that's worth devoting. All the resources, you company to and people will opt into movement, and you can kick ass and take names. You know at elephant in the room, our men's grooming lounge. It's it's like a country club meets men's hair every time that we cut someone's hair for the first time, it's a membership model. So the first time he'd come in the haircuts paraffin handed pot towel treatment. People love it. We have four locations. We're very open for fifth one. This is seven years into business. But your first haircut is a dollar, and we don't eat that dollar to company called an organization called compassion international that kids inferno, countries and provides them, it's a wonderful organization. It's education in food and nourishment clothing. And then what are the other businesses that were involved in from a consultant levels, a company called Oxy, fresh and Oxy fresh is the world's greenest carpet cleaner. But what John the founder of Oxy fresh decided to do we discussed quite a bit was to every time that you schedule online as opposed to calling in. They make donation to water dot org. The organization that's represented by Matt Damon that drills wells in third world country. And as a consultancy, I encourage every single business owner, I work with I say, find a giveback find it 'cause that matters more than just profits. Because at the end of the day, would you said is one hundred percent correct out there. And I think a lot of listeners out there are on the fence going. Okay. Do I pick up 'cause do I buy bocce ball? Do. I buy nuts. I mean, I might say all of them and never go to Starbucks for the next month. But someone says I'm on a budget and I still do my caffeine. I would say instant coffee at the off brand. It's okay. But someone says no serious I'm down to my last twenty five dollars. I'd say turn off the cable, but if they were down to one book to buy one, but what of your books to purchase to checkout. What in your mind is the book that all the listeners should check out? Well, that's a hard. Thanks for asking the tough question. 'cause you devote you to all of these. I think I'd have to I'd have to land where you did the book that's probably has meant the most us in terms of our philosophy. And what we believe 'cause we think we're all wide for we think, we're. Created in the image of a creator whose adventurous and entrepreneurial innovative and we're wired for significance for wired for meaning. And if you can help people find that cause and build that movement, then you are doing something great, not only for your business, and for your employees, but great for you know, the world much you operate. So I would land on 'cause two questions. I have for you. You are a guy that comes across very well read as your businesses as your books have done. Well, and you're speaking done, well, and your businesses have taken off what do you do you? How do you stay on top of it? How do you organize the first four hours of typical day? And what time do you wake up? We're usually up by five thirty I would say. I've got a son that commutes forty minutes to school. We split our time between San Diego and Sundance and with Sundance during school or some goes to high school, forty minutes away. So we're usually up getting him out the door. My day begins with reading and poorer. I just it's just where I am just believe that we've been giving gifts and talents. And so I start my day by just kinda consecrating it to God's saying. I'd like to just get in sync with you. And what you're doing where you're going and helped me figure out what that is. So that's my first hour or ninety minutes of the day. And then usually we're either on an airplane going somewhere or we're hunkered down trying to work on the next project. We we write a column for Forbes now, and so that's a big deal for us. And so I would just tell you that most of our day is spent writing and I married to a workout Hollick. And so something that day. I find a good workout because if I don't I'll never keep up with her. Yeah. Your your wife, stay super fit, by the way. That's unbelievable. Just eat shift sheet a diet that consists of just kale and then kale. Well, you know, we the Sundance institute film last year in January, and they had the world's strongest banned the top cyclist thirty nine year old cycle is to his kick in the butts of every nineteen twenty something couple football player all these world class, athletes, and the thing they all had income and was they'd gone from carnivore diet to vegetarian vegan and my wife became vegan. And I'll tell you it's been a pain in the butt to go to a restaurant with because not all restaurants, even friend. He does eat pretty healthy. Now, I will tell you that that is not bled. Over into Mike guy. I'm still pretty. Okay. So you you you try to eat healthy. But you're not you're not vegan at this point. No, I'm not I'm not and she's not evangelistic about it. She just works for a works for her. But we are people who take care of ourselves because you know, we'd like to we'd like to be productive for as long as possible. I have no interest. In retiring. I would like to you know, if I could die on stage somewhere imparting some some pieces of wisdom to people and just take it straight into the wall. That'd be good. I think we're here to be used and user gifts and talents. So that's what I wanna do. But to do that, you kinda gotta stay healthy, right, right? Or try to at least. Now, my final question for you that I'm very curious about is. I we interviewed. I mean, we've interviewed the founder of Ritz Carlton Lee cockerel who managed to Walt DisneyWorld for years, and then Wolfgang puck to so many big names. And all of you have these idiosyncrasies that you do. Superpower, you know, kind of things that you do that. No one else does that are kind of a little bit interesting. I wear the same clothes every day the same outfit every single day. You don't people go? Why do you do that? Can I ask you do? You have an idiosyncrasy that you could share or an interesting belief you have or maybe something you don't do that. Everybody else. Does. Well, I man I don't wanna I want wanna steal from Huma. But you know, run to long time ago that when you travel as much as we do in your in front as many people as we are you you can just simplify things. And so I pretty I have about I have a signature shirt I wear to go speak in and I've got about four different five different versions. So, but that is my tire really it up a lot because it simplifies my life, and I don't have to you. And you're thinking about trying to bring a message to people and you wanna touch their hearts getting their heads. I just don't have time to be thinking about well is my tire ride in my rest accordingly. So I just kind of a signature tire. And that's what I do. Well, I'm kind of boring in that respect on this audio only podcast. I can just say on behalf of the thrive nation you. You're look. Beautiful. Well, I'm not sure with all the great people. You've had on this on this show. I feel pretty honored that we got thrown in the next I don't feel worthy. But I feel honored. So thank you for all the people that we've been interviewed by and get get on the radio and podcast with men. You're a you're a shaker and mover, and I love that about what you're doing. Your listeners are fortunate to have you. Thank you so much, my friend. Hope you have a great day. Thanks for having me. Great talking to you. If you were out there today, and you learned a few things during today's show. I would encourage you to put them into practice as soon as possible take these ideas catch these ideas, write them down and figure out how you can implement them in your company one big idea. These simplification of everything, you know, Southwest Airlines, they only fly and maintain and service seven thirty seven Boeing jets think about that they only work with one kind of aircraft. And if you read the book nuts, it explains to you in that book with great detail why that's a competitive advantage for them. They've also simplified their business model by getting rid of signed seats. So they don't longer have to mess with that allows them to be more efficient. They've also differentiated themselves in the marketplace by not charging you to load your bags. They have merit based pay in place that there's so many things that Southwest Airlines does right. And I would encourage everybody out there to have a copy of the book nuts or to at least implement. The following two action items simplify simplify simplify ask yourself. How can you simplify your business model because simplicity scales in complexity fails in to introduce merit based pay based pay into your company and some capacity don't pay people based upon what they say they're going to pay people based upon their actual performance, and you will find that your company will grow any further. I do too. Oh. Are you serious about growing your business? Do you wanna save yourself a time money and headaches? Well, with this intuition requires us where you take a massive action. It's time for you to sign up for the world's most portable and affective education. For entrepreneurs today at thrive time school dot com. Again, that's threatened school dot com. Sign up today at throughout town school dot com. I dare you.

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1143 Dr. Neil I. Park DMD, FAGD, DICOI, VP of Clinical Affairs Glidewell Laboratories : Dentistry Uncensored with Howard Farran

Dentistry Uncensored with Howard Farran

1:06:59 hr | 1 year ago

1143 Dr. Neil I. Park DMD, FAGD, DICOI, VP of Clinical Affairs Glidewell Laboratories : Dentistry Uncensored with Howard Farran

"It's just a huge honor for me today to be podcast interviewing Dr Neill park. DM D FA GD D, I C O. I diplomatic congress Orlan all he's glide. Well, dentals vice president of clinical affairs after receiving his d from temple university. School does read Dr park practice dentistry for twelve years before beginning his career in the dental implant industry for the past two decades, Dr park acelle top leadership positions at companies such as noble bio care, Henry shine. He is recognized for his work in the creation of management of innovative programs designed to bring technology to private practitioners. He's responsible for the development implementation of key changes and the pre doctoral implant curriculum of universities throughout North America. He joined glide well three years ago in two thousand sixteen where he now oversees clinical research development as well as training and education programs in implant, restorative studied dentistry, and addition he serves as an executive. Editor of cheer side magazine. I mean, my gosh, your background Zimmer dental Henry shine and their implant Cam, log, clear joys, vice president professor noble bio care, man. It is an honor to have you on the show today. Thanks howard. It's an honor to be with you. You're certainly pioneer in your way of communicating to so many Dennis. And it's a great opportunity to be able to reach so many people. You know, we've seen so many changes in your background in implants. I mean noble bio care. I remember when they start no bio care. He would only let your oral surgeons took you had to pull teeth to get them to add buried on us. And now general dentists have taken over implants around the world. And then you went to clear Joyce, which is the largest provider of own fours, and then Henry shine with Cam long and Zimmer dental I wanted to ask you Zimmer. Donald because I read on. The internet that Zimmer dental put their the told Wall Street, the they're one to sell that division off was that Mark. True. Yeah. That was that was a public announcement. So what happened was Zimmer acquired Biomet? So in these were orthopedic deals, these two huge orthopedic companies to leaders in the industry and each of them just happened to have dental vision. So as they merge, the the orthopedic divisions. They merged these two dental divisions together, and what probably is happening is that the executives zimmer-biomet said, you know, the trajectory of dental businesses a little bit different than than the pathway of orthopedic business. So we're going to be best off spinning this off. So so I would imagine at some point they'll be some some deep pockets are gonna come by purchase that great companies over by on that. And they'll they'll be off serving us industry, some more. Did you think it'll be Stroman because Strommen is sells more implants than anyone through mergers and acquisitions they bought NIA Dentin, Brazil, my ass an Israel. They they seem to be the most. Intuitive. Do you think that'll be a natural for them? If there was something in particular that that this zimmer-biomet had that they didn't have you know. So so as you mentioned Strom instead of great job, they have their premium plant line globally, and then they have some some value planet lines that they've purchased. So they've got that part of the market covered. It may be for ample zimmer-biomet has that very nice line of regenerative product. So all the nice all Zimmer region product. So then they decide to purchase it for for those products. If hours worked out for them, but you are you're absolutely right. And set a great job with mergers and acquisitions, and they certainly know their way around this space, and I really love market Goto Godollo. He's the CEO of Stroman, and he came on the show episode eight thirty nine and it was amazing the new format. I did I did a podcast live at a seminar. I was lecturing and in Canada and he took questions from the field. And you never know what some. Dennis is crazy thing then say, and man, he was just he held his he was an amazing, man. And I want to tell you that growing up Catholic and Kansas with seven brothers and sisters, and my grandparents and Parsons and all these small towns, your boss your owner. Jim glide will has always been personal hero mind. Just like the CEO of Southwest Airlines flying back in the eighties. Rich people could fly only people getting paid for by fortune five hundred company or the government. And herb Kelleher said, you know, keep one eye on the customer and one I on your costs until you can drive down the price of what you sell until the middle class has the freedom to afford to fly. And if anybody has been more dedicated to driving down the cost of dental laboratories so that the average American can have the freedom to save their teeth. It has been Jim glide. Well, if dentistry, I mean, I mean. He's a hall of Famer. I mean, he really is he's absolutely role model. I love the fact, and plus he's Irish I might be. But the fact that the fact that he just dinner town for thirty for thirty years and people sit there and try to talk trash about glide Willer, something I say, yeah. And you're using lately people would you go to these courses they'd recommend these labs that charged three hundred dollars a unit. I say how's that gonna help anybody in my family? I mean that might help someone in Key Biscayne or Beverly Hills are Manhattan, but that ain't gonna help the farang family out. I mean, you know, I still pay for a lot of dentistry for family members. Just because they can't afford actually it's cheaper to pay a dentist to do. It back in Wichita than the flame out here and do it myself. But but yeah, I just love Jim Guidry. Love his approach. He's the Southwest Airlines of dentistry. Do you agree with that? Absolutely. And. He's an inspirational leader, and he's absolutely focused in making quality dentistry. Available to more patients. That's what drives him all day long for for the forty nine years that he's had this laboratory, you know, in something like like the Brookshire crown which which you know, he was the inspiration behind that. He put together the Aren D team that created this material that created the procedures to make this. And now, it's so thing where any dentist can purchase. This crown for ninety nine dollars provided to his patients at a at a really reasonable. And it's a it's a tooth colored high quality high strength highest restoration, and if we didn't have anything like that before, you know, you've been around not quite as long as I have but industry where we're to get a beautiful strong aesthetic, crowns, always a challenge and the monolithic zirconium really really was a new solution to that problem. Well, I'm very sad. That today is. January twenty ninth because it was on January fifteenth nineteen seventy the gym glide will open the doors as I laboratory serving five local dentists and Dustin California, my gosh, what a what a true pioneer. And I've got to we spoke on the same. What's that a before Chicago mid-winter, the dental laboratories have a meeting is Chicago. He deal Ellen t lab day, something like that. Yeah. Something like that. And and I think Jim Nyerere the only people who have spoken on that program. Four times everyone else spoke on a lesson that and ever, Jamie. Listen gem, you just Saint my because he's sitting on so much data doesn't he do like five percent of all the crowns in America. It looks like we have about seven percent of the of the US dental laboratory market, which which doesn't sound like a lot for a company this size. But it's a very fragmented industries, you know, most most labs employer fewer than one hundred people. Well, it's not when you and I were little when you and I were little and got out of school. There were fifteen thousand dente laboratories, and now it's it's been cut in half. Right. So what what is what is your about seven five hundred? Yeah. And it's hard. It's hard to be mom and pop dental effort. We are how many labs. I couldn't tell you. If you say it's about seventy five hundred. That's sounds about right to me. Yeah. I love it. When people Email me and say do you go to quote for that statistic? I said about. Yeah. Howard veran. I I've had a MAG. I've had a monthly columns nineteen Ninety-four done twelve hundred gas interviews. I think I should be considered a source. But but so so the mom and pop they just can't compete because there's too much technology equipment. They have to acquire. That's right. That's right. You know, it isn't like the old days when you need some wax spatula in a Bunsen burner and you in the lab business, it's different. Now. The just the software licenses that you have the purchaser or our case we develop our own software. So we actually have a software development company that you know, the scanners the the mills all the design software that you have to have. And then of course, we since since we're in a new area, especially with the with the Brookshire, crowns we develop our own methods for for staining finishing and even for bonding. So some of the materials that remix, so it's it's kind of an end to end situation and Jim prides himself on having that vertical integration in doing everything from from creating material all the way to helping the dentist. Learn how to use it successfully. Well, I I would. What I what I the reason I envisioned dental town in it'll be twenty years Saint Patrick's Day nine hundred ninety nine because Dennis all alone. And they really want to see what everyone else is doing. And you do seven percent of the dental laboratory business in the United States should give us some give us any macro stats like what percent of crowns, come in one out of time. The bulk of crowns are single units. The the bulk percents, it'd be no I couldn't tell you off hand. I can I can look that up, and maybe we can do a little supplement readers. I don't wanna I don't wanna give false statistics. But but the great bulk of of work is single unit, crowns, and look we know that is right to if a patient comes in with a broken tooth or a broken LA restoration. You don't have to be zig Ziglar to get that patient to accept the crown to go. To go for the good line. Can I steal that line for me? And my son are absolutely absolutely. And I was in the Romans exhibit was having implants place. So that's that's what how it's meaningful. Is that right? Yeah. That's right. He's still live. Now. He's not he's no longer left. Oh my gosh. I never forget. When I listened to remember when Tony Robbins came out in the thirty day, the thirty eight personal Bauer, and that's Idei stoled for the thirty day dental MBA. And but but I was ups I loved it because I had four boys and we're working on the garage everyday. Listen to these tapes, but he said he copied so many zig Ziglar lines. I mean, you're you're outed. Toot your attitude determines your altitude your aptitude, which Terminator outed. I mean, he was a zig Ziglar fan. You could maybe he didn't know he's doing it on purpose. But my gosh, someone's zig Ziglar comes out at Tony Robbins. I mean, he was really a pioneer. I mean, there's there's nothing left to say after sick. I mean, he he said at all and what he was selling pots and pans in rural Alabama and developed his techniques. So you gotta be good to do that. So when you and I came out of school in the eighties. The it was. Go ahead. Get out seventy nine okay. Oh, temple seventy nine. And I was eighty seven and the three in abridge was the king. I mean again when you look at insurance to ticks the four for year, molars, get all the dental work. I mean what the B M O D crown root canal extracted. It's so back when we got out of school when they were missing first of all it was a three in a bridge as three unit bridge diet legs. Like Brooks are killed the PFM. I mean, if you wanna say what killed the PFM, which was a new thing when I was in school going from gold, crowns, and these new PFM's and Brooks are killed. The PFM did implants kill the three bridge or do you still do a lot of three emerges? They're still fair number of bridges. But certainly the the bulk of implants being done are there single to them plants and the and the most popular one is the lower first molar. That's that's where a lot of Scott are start doing this. And hey, it's better. It's better service for the patient. That's what it's all about. You know, what they say? If you get a single then plan, it's a one tooth problem. And you solve it as one to problem if you do it three hundred bridge, you took your one tooth problem. And you just turn it into a three tooth problem. And in the long run, the patient could be worse off as that bridge needs to be remade. And the next time there's some Endo involved in. And then gee, maybe the time after that becomes a four hundred bridge refined unit bridge. So so it's a great service. It's a it's a very conservative wave doing dentistry, not not involving other teeth, and certainly listen Howard as much as all of us as Dennis work to learn new skills and to advance our practices. It's it's to a great extent. It's. Patience that drag the dentist kicking and screaming into implant dentistry because they're not going to accept that three hundred bridge. You know, they they want something better. They're not going to accept that partial denture or that or that lower denture that flops around and a a large number of Dennis have been have been forced into this technology by the demands of their patients. So you're also I mean, you're the VP of the only place that is both a manufacturer of dental implants and an implant dough laboratory glide will has. Your subsidiary. What what is it prison Matic? Presented inc. Fabricates both the inclusive dental implant and the Hawn dental implant that's another guy haunts from Ohio. I get on. He's what Dr Houghton have you had him as your guests. Oh, I know. I my gosh. I let your to him. I went to his lectures in Ohio when I still had hair that guy has been yet. Tell them to come on the show. I I would kill to have him come on the show. So he was the keynote speaker at our global symposium that we had an October in DC, and he absolutely killed it. He just killed know he he can still get up there and teach greatest ratio beautiful cases. But he's just so incredibly entertaining. He has such a great way of relating to the audience. Yeah. Yeah. We've got a video. We'll put little clips out there. My if you film, the lecture Sunday it to me and all on dental town online continue education. Will there you go? We'll make a c course out of because I think we can do that. Because a lot a lot of those guys that lecture and do clinical and all that stuff. They they just don't want to. They just don't want to do the the the graphic on a mess with it. A lot of our ninety these say, oh, yeah. You can do it. If we send a camera guy out there and film it, and and we do a lot of that Howard Goldstein flies all around the country because he's done a say. Yeah, I'd love to do it. But I just wanted to time or technique so nice programs up there. We just put a program with Tim Kozinski app on your site a great job, and there's some there's some programs we helped out with for Chuck Schlesinger puts them on. And that's a really nice program. We're Chuck takes people through step by step to get started with implants. But yet we look forward to working with you. You've got a great platform. You've got some some devoted Dennis that really wanted to bench their their skills, and we're happy to support that. Yeah. Charles slesinger. He's to be an Albuquerque. What was the implant what what company was that of a company called OC? Oh, oh CO. And before that, you know, when I was general manager of Cam lock in the US, and Chuck was one of our national instructors for that. Well, so he's been teaching for quite a while. And the other guy you mentioned Tim is. That. Guy. Tim kosinski? He he's been in the implant business long, as you have I believe, so in fact, I met him in the early days of he was one of the few GP's that broke through very early on. And he still has an incredible practice going up in Bingham farms. Michigan does beautiful work and very very busy practitioner. So I know that a lot of people listening. He's biased because he works glide. Well, so he's going to be all pro Hawn. Implants, or whatever but are inclusive. But I mean is an implant implant an implant or here. Here's this is in question. The greatest dental meeting the world is every other year. It's coming up in Cologne. Germany, I've been a half dozen times and about one hundred thousand on his show up to the IDS meeting and cloned, your meagre gotta go. It's so damn cool. You if you walk at the normal pace that you walk when you go for a walk around the block you couldn't walk by every booth in the five days at its there every talk to us from a different country. It's so damn cool in romantic. But dude, they're do. You wanna know how many dental implant companies are got a booth scheduled to be there this year. I know last time I went it was over two hundred. I don't know what it'll be this year, Italy alone has four hundred dental implant companies just the country of Italy. So so my homeys listening right now, they don't wanna go learn twenty five different systems, and they know all the old dogs like me already have five or six systems if someone was going to get into implants, and they were just going to buy one system. What would you recommend? Well, you're right. I am biased. And say they should by the hunt system. And and the reason for that is there are certain characteristics of dental implant that the market has decided are the right way to go. Okay. It's gotta be tapered implant. Right. So and it's got to have conical connection, and it's got to have a platform shift, and it's got to have a fairly aggressive thread to give you good immediate stability. Right. So so now if you look for all of those characteristics, you've probably gotten rid of you know, fifty or sixty percent of the implants. Mark. You said take say the three years just three things tape tapered. Yeah. You wanna wanna taper implant body? You want a conical connection that allows you a platform shift? Right. And you want a moderately aggressive thread to give you good immediate stability. Okay. Those well, unfortunately, people our age read books and newspapers and the people listen to podcasts twenty five percents. I mean, Email Howard dental town dot com or leave a comment and the YouTube YouTube channels YouTube dot com for stone town magazine, but twenty five percent of are still in school the restaurant under thirty so take each one of those three one by one and explain it like you were talking to dental kindergarten. Sure. Sure. So so as far as tapered implant, you know, the the shaper group plant, it's either a parallel walled in Platte, which which the original bradtha Mark was and there's still a lot of a lot of of a parallel walled implants on the market. The problem with. That is that it's harder to get immediate stability and that shape. Also, doesn't mimic the shape of the tooth root and it's replaced. I if you have a taper implant, then you're better opportunity to get good primary stability, which of course, you're not gonna get secondary stability don't have primers. Right. So so that taper gives you the opportunity to get go that so good on the on the tapered shape. Yep. Okay. The connection right? The the first Brana Markian plant was a heck stop implant, and it was a flat on a flap. Okay. And that meant that if it got forces from the Cy torquing forces that connection was going to open up, and if the connection opens up enough, you get a loose group. So then the internal connection was developed and it was refined over the years. So now, it's the state of the art connection is a conical connection with a Hex somewhere somewhere inside that internal connection. And then it's also been shown that. A platform shift where the the abutment is is slightly less diameter than the implant platform that gives you a little more opportunity to to to create a favourable situation for the soft tissue. Okay. So that that's called her platform shift. So so that's the second part is the the stable internal connection with the platform shift. And the third part is the threads is the threat design has to be such that you've got good primary stability so Howard an implant goes in and it it doesn't fall out originally because because of the primary stability, right? That's mechanical right. It's like putting a screw into woods that initial primary stability and secondary stability is the key to to long term success. So those are the those are the three things that I think are important. I learned this from Jack hot, right? So so so Jack was was originally stereos user back when I was with. Bill bio care, and then he developed the replace system and then right for a joint here at glide. Well, he worked with with the folks here and designed the Hans system, and in addition to having those those basic characteristics that I believe are key to success. We've got we've got a really good support system here. Glad well in tell you what are the best things about the Hans system is if you submit a Han case to the lab, you get twenty percent discount on your land Bill and our implant lab is if not the largest in the country, it's pretty darn close. I I don't know of one that's even close in size. So you send the case on an hunt plan. You got twenty percent off when you're left. That's that's kind of a good thing when you say, yeah. But you own to implant companies you have the inclusive dental solution and you have the haunted. So do you like one of those more than the other? I do. So so inclusive is basically. A clone of the old Zimmer TSE tapered screw. It's it's it's it's pretty much that implant that implant was very early to come off of of patents. And so it's been frequently copied, and that's why we chose that designed because it's it's kinda ubiquitous in dentistry. It's everybody's been copying it for for many many years twenty year old design unlike the Han implant more because it it takes into account so much that we've learned over the last twenty years about implant design and blaming Jack Han was here. In fact, he was here a couple of weeks ago, but he comes here. He sits with our engineers. He works with our trainers to to share with them the benefits of his many, many years of expertise and experience will next time. He's that glide well, take him into the studio and have them Skype, me and. That would be. And if you got a now that his killer luxury I would love to put that up downtown that guy is a legend. And the other thing about him. Same reason, Jim he's not from the rich hoity toity town. I mean, he did this in nowhere, Ohio. That's right. We'll soon Cincinnati. And he tells of course, Jack tells a lot of great stories, but but basically he went and took a course it was the he took the course in upstairs above dry-cleaning place in Brooklyn came back home did the first one for free because he was learning and the second one he charged because now he was an expert, and he's gone from there and also back then I got to remind you young kids. Don't don't throw these pioneers under bridge because when I was in dental school from eighty four eighty seven the lectures, would openly talk trash about the one oral surgeon who was placing him plants. He was called then they called him butchers. I remember some of the greatest implant pioneers in these small redneck fly over states and the first time they'd have a case. Go bad, the local board would take their license away. And I knew one of these couple of guys just went into depression, alcoholism and ended up. In a trailer, and these guys are paying nears. So the those guys did all I mean, members sub Perio steals and blades and these were miracle solutions, but come on. How many sub Perio seals might go bad might get infected might look ugly. You know, this is really instructive our if you take a look at some of these patients that had Ramos Frayn's, and so pretty. And when those cases fail as most of them do at some point when those cases fail they Amelie wanna know when you can put another one in what you can retrieve them because as as much as they suffered with the failure of that of that prosthesis, and that's a port mechanism. It was so much better than having a floating lower denture. And you know, these these pioneers did a lot for people. And you know, we do we we are profession sits on the on the shoulders of giants. I remember the first time is the guy taking impression of a sub Perry. Also. And I was so frightened at the impression would lock around them in the mental Raman. And and I mean what these guys did. And how some of them were treated in what happened to their careers was just inexcusable tribalism thinking and fearing scarcity gosh darn it's come so far. So don't. When I was in dental school. I only learned to things about implants one is that they don't work and the other is that ethical doctors don't mess with them. And that was it that was the total my learning, and I had to sign to finish my operative dentistry costs that chairman of operative made us all sign an ethical statement that we would never place these new composites 'cause they were plastic garbage crap. And and amalgam was try and Malcolm's do last longer than Cobas. I get all that. But what my operative instructor didn't get is that if you told every woman in Phoenix when I have not maybe seven that the that the black silver filling would last twice long a tooth colored. What did one hundred percent of them pick? They want to call it touts colored. I mean, you know, I don't have hair. But I'm sure when girls go to this launch and bleach your hair, I'm sure it's not good for it. But they want to colored you had you had to listen to the market and the other thing I liked about two colored fillings and Ortho all that is I always noticed with Americans that if they don't like their teeth. They don't take care of them. They don't brush flaws and the nets. But if they start to like, I mean, I noticed that bleaching clear, but remember when it was Omni bleaching came out of Arkansas nowheres nine hundred dollars for six bottles. I said no one's gonna pay for this. Everybody did. And but what I noticed that the bleaching is that once he started to bleach your teeth, and it was like, well what about this filling and what about this missing too? And it was humans either bowl on a bowling league and own your own bowl. Or you haven't been bowling in ten years either own a boat and go to the lake every week or you haven't been in ten years. And that's the way dentistry is the people that don't. Take care of their teeth. They don't like their teeth. They they're ashamed of their teeth. They think they have bad teeth. And if you can just give this patient to say, no, you got good teeth and not talking down to your patients. So many dentists are condescending, and they're like, you know, they make them feel bad. We'll people who fill bad are gonna come back and give you money. You gotta be that coach. And in fact, I still think most boys the reason they excel at the sport, they are is because at the earliest juncture a coach in that sport was making them feel good. And that's why they ended up in hockey or lacrosse or wrestling as opposed to some of the more famous one. And you're not going to be a great coach making everybody feel bad. You know, so. So many patients who whose teeth are in terrible shape wants seeking dental care. They've had some kind of bad experience or experience that they interpret as being a bad experience that that that validates what they're doing. And that was something I learned it at clear choice because most of the patients that seek here at clear choice haven't been to a dentist of any kind in ten years. And it's the situation you're talking about they hate their teeth in one invest any money. They don't want to put any care into it. And then they hear that there's a way to get this taken care of. And and the organization supports them gives them a good buying experience. Right. They give them a pathway. You're going to do this this and this and you're gonna get this done in this period of time. And that's that's what people want. They want a clear buying pathway to get the things that they want and I'm saying what not need right because we're driven by once not so much back to Fearn scarcity thinking versus hope growth and abundance. I remember when clear choice Han came to Phoenix Arizona all the oral surgeons buried on us for all getting up in arms and starting to get tribal in protective. Well, what do they do? They went on TV. They did a gazillion commercials. And that lifted all the dental implant boats yet patients coming in. I saw this commercial on TV about this. And that and they didn't and for every one that went to clear choice probably nine went to their back to their same dentist sort asking the right questions. So it's not about fear scarcely about hope growth at abundance. That's been proven over and over and over just. What's also clear choice people moving because they don't know that there's a solution. And if someone comes on TV and tells them there's a solution. Well, greater they've got a relationship with a local dentist. Go see that Dennis. If they don't they'll go see the the person that's doing the advertise. And if you wanna throw clear twice under a bus clear choice does about twenty thousand units a year for twenty five thousand dollars an arch and ninety five percent of the Dennis when they retire. They never did one twenty five thousand dollar tree and plant in their life. Unlike the American patient who buys thirteen no six thirteen cars between ages sixteen and seventy new cars are medium price at thirty three thousand five hundred and five percent of the dentist block Fridays for their big case. And they do a big case like that every Friday their whole career and the other ninety five percent. Dennis will never do it one time in their life because they just think that nobody has any money and nobody buys a new car. Nobody gets all their teeth on and you should be learning from these legends not being afraid of them create point great point and click a great organization, actually, my my old boss. Kevin mosier. The former CEO of care is the CEO of of clear choice in and he's a great leader in there. And they're always moving forward and trying to do to serve more people in better ways. So so now, I have no issues with Richard noble. Bio care, turn into note was that noble pharma, or this separate companies are. Well, yeah, it's a little complicated. But the company that originally was Nobel pharma changed its name to Novell bio care due to change in ownership in back in the Swedish days, right? And so so that I think that probably happened about maybe I'm gonna guess around ninety five that happened. And then that company was a free standing publicly traded company. And then it it it purchased stereos which was a tremendously advanced in rapidly growing US based company, and that combination of of Nobel, which was the problem work system and stereotypes which was a real up and coming company that created the noble here that we know today, which of course, that company has since been acquired by Danner. Well, then what's noble pharma? Then right now out of Japan form near hasn't been a new pharma since the nineties. No, really. So they're they're gone. They're band there so much so many changes going so you've been in this longtime or you more focused global, are you more focused on dental implants or crown and bridge or restorative adhesives. So I am focused on helping doctors successful with new technologies. So a lot of that is creating content. So I spent a lot of my time with our chair side magazine trying to make that magazine better and more useful to doctors all the time. I spend a lot of time with our educational programmes. We started a fellowship. I I began the glide will supposing which in two thousand nine hundred gonna be our third glide Wilson, cozy, which is you know, as become a very big event. So that's that's not going to be next year. Was that where's that going to be here in Orlando in November two thousand nineteen at the shingle creek? It's the hotel got Hilton on one side and wilder has story on the other. So depending on how wealthy you feel when you check in. You can get a fantasy written word or this Jim Jim's figure those meetings. He does he does he opens up the meeting? Absolutely nice nice. I'm enough to hit that that's that. That's. Yeah. So, but when you talk about technology, let's keep it real these kids are coming out of dental school four hundred thousand dollars dad, and they say they asked me they Email me Howard dental town dot com, they say due to fifty two three fifty to four hundred thousand debt if they get married in dental school and have kids they're over four hundred and LDS, and they'll say if I buy a cat if I buy densely thrown a CAD Cam and CBC and laser just double my student loan debt. So when you talk about incorporating new technologies to be successful. I know when my homeys are thinking, they're like deemed does DS stand for Dr debt-service. I mean, how much debt do I have to go into successful? So talk to talk to my doctor debt-service Dennis was student loans and tell me what technologies do you think have a return on invest? Vestment and I'm going to hold your feet to fire with my first question. Do they need to buy a dense flights thrown a cat Cam for a hundred and forty I would strongly recommend that they not to that. Okay. So so Howard this whole this whole CAD Cam thing, it didn't roll out the we it should've rolled out what happened was the sex. And e for these of the world came out and said, you need to buy this six figure system so that you can scan and you can design and you can mill all at one time and besides being incredibly expensive. That's very disruptive to a practice. Right. The way this should've rolled out. And if it would ruled out this way Howard every dentist in the world would be a digital Dennis right now, it should rolled out with the insurance scanner Kate die that has intro scanner cannot imagine how he lived without one K you get into rural Skinner. No our partners, I tear. So so so we really really Jimmy idols partners terro owned by. So so we built a mill, and we created them Cheerios to be used in that mill and we created the software to be used in in designing crowd of milled. And then we picked terro because it's it's a great scanner. It's got great support. And it's terrific network. So of course, right now, I tear users are been buying our global dot IO mill crazy. And a lot of people have been have been joining joining in light well dot Sagan glide. Well, I so that so that's our our mill the fast mill, and it's it's a it's much less expensive than the other mills that you mentioned, and it works, and no it's really great Howard. It. It will mill a fully cinch erred Brooks or block, right? So it isn't one of these things where you're going to you're going to get a pre center block millet and put in the oven forever. You're gonna get a fully. Center Brooks or it's called Brooks. Or now, you put it in the mill and fifty fifty five minutes you've got finished Brooks or crown to insert into your patient. So that's that's quite advantage. And as you know Brooks are is is quite a bit stronger than the, you know, the lithium die silicates that are typically used in insert Skinner. So it's glide well dot I l so I I, oh, that's that's like dot com. What does I o stand for in office? Yeah. But but for a domain name, it probably had they come from a country. What though it's not it's not a domain name. It's just our our product name. So if you want information about it, just come to the glide website. We've got information there. Dot IO. Let me find out. Oh, it's I well, you're okay. So your site is your site is glide will dot IO. But what I'm saying is to use that dot IO when it was set up that's for the British Indian ocean territory. So any dollars ISO because some really new ones, but yeah, when you go look at that the list of countries that can be your instead of using dot com or dot org or dot EDU for education. But yeah, dot IO. That's cool because that's the name of your system. So you guys use the British Indian ocean territory. Tell your marketing team cover did that that. I'm thoroughly impressed. But because I. The British Indian. Territories. It's glide will I o sans were in office solution, which is a versatile suite of technologies that empowers clinicians providing immediate Puerto glide, we'll doner and the ability to crustaceans right in place for same appointment, crowns, designing these. But do you think it's a better businesses? To take that terro scanner scan it and send it to the lab are to actually really do that in office chair side. And so it's different from different strategies for different people. Right. So so ideally, you want to have the choice. Right. So you wanna be able to scan the patient designed the crowd. And then decide is this person where I've got to get the shame just right? And I've gotta have all the contras just right that go in and check this box and send that glide. We'll laboratories to be fabricated, or this is an airline pilot that needs to be out of town to Mars, I need to sit down here and pull out my my my Brooks are now block and millet right now. So it's ideal to have that flexibility. But when you talk about ROI for the young dentist who's got heavy debt burden. He get the scanner start with that get involved in digital dentistry. You recommend the I terro scanner get the terrorists gainer. Absolutely. Absolutely. And then. Later on decide you always had the milit- wrong. So so you guys wrote the software for IT to for the scanning to go to milling out the crown so so there's three steps right? They're scanning there's designing and they're milling price too. So the terrorism free standing scanner we didn't write the software that controls that. But we wrote the software that designs the crown, and it's and it's a very intuitive software, even I can design a crown on the on the on the software the. Our designs offer. And you said it to the mill for conservative to be milled by the by lab. So I here here's my take on that. Yeah. Somebody needs the crown today you can do that. But to making it two million out in your office whole time, how long do you think it takes for someone to numb up a first molar prep? It scan it designed it millet cement insert. What do you think the average time would be chair side? How long were that face? Probably talking two and a half to three hours. Right. So what I what I don't like about that. What I don't like about. That is a lot of times the dentist doesn't like the crown. But he doesn't have the guts to say, I'm sorry. But Neil do care. If I redo this and you sit in the chair another three are to put them perspective. My sister when to ever hair-color, and she went in there three and then get out till nine. So she's at their six hours for hair. So it's nothing to the world. But I don't know. I just like I just think the doctors you scan it and send it to the lab they have less remakes. Right. I've heard that people are sending impressions have five percent remakes and people sending in scans have one percent you confirm that or. Why? I mean you've seen the scan. You can take a look at it. If you miss the margin. It's on your screen. You know, it happened. Right. And the same token when you go to design the crown if if the crowds not going to be right? You're going to know it right, then and there in Howard, you know, as far as your question about whether whether this is what doctors wanna do. I would just say here is largest eleven country whose job it is to fabricate crowns for doctors. Right. And we got into in office milliner. Why did we do that? And the the point is that you cannot fight the trend the technology has developed it's going to be a certain percentage of crowns fabricated in office. And we've got some some tools and talents that'll help people get there. We did not expect seventy five percent crowns ever to be fabricated in office. But there will be a certain percentage, and we want to be there with a grain offering to help them do that. And how much is a starter set, by the way. This isn't a commercial. Did did you pay me to come on the show? No, I did not ended. I not make you to come on the show for almost twelve hundred days, I've been asking and. And Jim and Jack on and you kept saying no your show, but this is not a commercial people. So how much would it cost her to get into the Hawn implant system? How much how much money would it cost her out of pocket to get into the suit can get into the hot implant system for twenty about twenty five hundred dollars? Okay. So you're gonna buy ten implants and get a kid. You know, if you want to I mean, the great thing about the Han system is that the one hundred sixty dollars, and they're absolutely made the best materials in the world. The best engineers the best machinists the best equipment. You can get. You know, if you know, Jim glad will we don't. We don't skimp. That's the. That's the advice that he always gives me any project that I do don't skip make it, right? And you know, we've got a factory if you can see behind me. So I'm in Newport Beach, California are implants remain in that building right over there. They don't come from from Asia or Europe or anywhere. You know, they come. They come from Newport Beach, California by some of the most experienced and high quality machinist in the world. And you know, we're just able to do that, you know, you can certainly spend three times as much money on on another implant if that makes you feel better or that rep is in your office, and and provide some service that you've value. That's great go ahead and do that. But if you're looking. For a high quality implant that you can use to offer your patient, a great service at a fair price. I don't really see you could do any better. Well, I go ahead go, oh, well, spin experience with with Carl Mitch we we had some opportunity to work with the missions toot, which I consider to be the really preeminent group as far as freestanding training institute for dental implants, and and Carl when he was alive he took a good hard. Look at the implant in and said, this is great. This is better than implants, the cost of much more. And so, you know, and now with Dr Randy Resnick running with mission student doing most of the teaching. That's that's actually become a great source of new customers for us is our is our relationship with the mission since because the faculty there of students in the laboratories, they have such a great experience using using this very well designed product I am Carl mitch's podcasts. The has the. The most viewed of all time is twelve thousand on YouTube gazillion on Facebook and all that stuff. And I got my fellowship in the midst of missions to before I got my diplomat international congress on you. But I love that guy so much because when I walked out of school. They told me that you know, these butchers placing him lands. He's butchers doing sinus lives, you know. They're all butchers. And so here's here's how stupid me lucked into Carl. I wanna get my GD because whenever I went to the contains -cation courses the dentist had their FA aged their MAGA they were elite Dennis had elite bracket. So I said, okay, I need to be like them. I want to get my MAGA. Well, I got my FA AGA which is five hundred hours a lecture, but then the MADD was six hundred hours in four hundred had to be hands on. And so I didn't wanna place him plants. And so I called the guy and said, I don't want to go take a bunch of stupid implant courses because I'm not gonna play some, and I don't believe them. And I think, you know, they're bunchers and all this stuff like that. And he goes well sorry. We're not changing the curriculum for you. But if you go take Carl's cores, she can fill all your hands on. So I had my hands cross. I had a bad attitude. I flew to Pittsburgh three days a week. And my gosh, I wasn't in there for an hour. And I met Carl. And I I was scared. He he had a anesthesiologist had the patients under and he's doing full mouth incisions and flaps, and he's placing like twenty plants and have to time. These look at me, and the is talking to me like we're sitting at a bar a hamburger, and I couldn't even talk. I mean, it's kind of like you wanna learn how to shoot a gun, but you you sign up for war and you go to war for a year. And then you come back and shooting your little twelve gauge looks like nothing. So I feel like I went to the Vietnam of dental implants, and when you walk out of there went back to Phoenix to place that one little implant to replace a molar filled him barest because I knew guys like Karl were placing. What do you think? The most implants he plays an a day. Oh, gosh. No. But I would say would certainly hit three figures. Yeah. Yeah. I am. And so when you go back there and watch this guy, and then come back, you were fearless because you were dissecting out the mental for Ayman's and and doing all this stuff. I mean, he was just he was so amazing. What he did better last? He he systematized and made it into a science look like so many like so many years, it starts as an art form right in my hands this works, if I do certain way, but Karl's idea was to systematize it. So we had the, you know, the bone densities and the bone volumes any creative system for for the way the way you restore cases, you know, the different fixed designs, the different removal designs. I mean, that's the beauty of metal live on forever. And that is his his textbooks are the most purchased books in the history of dentistry, and it should because no one has. Ever put it together in that way. You know, the first time I heard something's wrong as the actually counseled at our townie meeting like a month before. And I thought what? And they said, well, he's sick. And even when he got sick, and they told him how long had to live even doubled that. I mean, he was such a warrior. He he outlived twice as long as the doctor said he would live, and but just a total total unbelievable, man. And he was a he was from Detroit originally what he because he was again, you know, always got turned off by the lead us. I'm remember some of the early courts. I went to they'd say, these are a patient's either be patiently. And then they describe each one and talk about how you need when they describe each one. I thought wow, the entire Veran. Family reunion is a d patient, and I'm listening the smocking Key Biscayne. I mean, I mean, you know, and and and Karl just kept it real. I wanna switch. I had the opportunity work with Carlin his final couple of years. And I've never seen anybody face. What he faced with the roic nature that he did. I mean, I will always remember that. He he worked until the last possible moment that he could work because he was so motivated to get front of students to talk to him. So he's a hero and no question and no one no one's ever freida dying. If they're married just remember that and the so I want to switch gears completely from dental implants to composites, you guys are your camouflage. Dan hybrid composite. Is you guys are are in the composite business. How's that going? What's that? You know, we we we manufacture own composite. And then part of that is we also manufacture composite blocks. So so the composite crown has had its ups and downs in dentistry. But at this point, we've developed a camouflage composite crown that can be milled very quickly in the office. And then we've developed a bonding protocol that makes it very very safe is, you know, if the crown either has to provide the strength as in Brookshire or the bonding method has to provide the strength as in a camouflage crown so it depends on the insurance plan and how it's reimbursed whether whether it'd be useful to adopt or not, but it certainly a great option to have and in Milford quickly. We do we do have our brand of camouflage composite that we sell it extremely reasonable price. Very high quality it it's it's a development of our department. We have almost eighty people working in a building next door to me in our. Dig the working on new formulations of Brock's. Her new shading mechanisms new the new software. There's so many things that there weren't gonna camouflage was development by that group while you know, when I was little my dad on vacation he wanted to go to an amusement park. I mean, we got in out there where you are which hands forgotten. Station wagon and drove from Wichita Kansas to Disneyland and say sway me and my five sisters were in the back play monopoly. No, Cibelli, today's blankets and pillows played monopoly. The whole way why mom and dad were in the front seat with a big case of Pabst blue Miller ribbon or something, you know, drinking the bears and throw them out the windows, and we drove all the way down there and see Disneyland or six flags be always stopped at manufacturing places. So I got to see all these things manufacture like Coors beer, but I get to see our family station wagon made while we were being pulled by Gulf car. You know, he's just love me. So I love that tradition. So when the first time I ever went to Disneyland DisneyWorld Disneyland. I took my four boys. I'm thinking my four boys to glide. Well, probably I don't know five times. And the first time I went in there. I was a nobody from nowhere. I had these four kids and Jim gave. Us a tour. I mean, he spent an hour answering. Why my Eric who's now? Twenty eight Eric was probably eight and asking them these dental questions because his dad was Dennis. And Jim was answering that guy is if he was Carl mish asking the question. And he he was so sweet. But you could tell and I tell them to do this because I have learned I mean, you can go you can go take a tour company, and you'll know more about their product line and what they do. And also tell you another thing some companies you go in there, there's nobody with a PHD. There's nobody in our in D, but they have a fifty person call center and some cheerleader with the thermometer dialing for dollars. It's all about the money. And then you go to other companies, and it's all about the science. It's all about the research. And then you also my one is I'm always pulling over anytime tone, introduce them. So I was always say how long have you been here? And some of these companies are all cells oriented companies, no d. And nobody's nobody's worked there three or four years. And that that's my first red flag. In fact, I Wall Street I wish the SEC would mandate employee turnover employees long. I mean, if I was going to go into a sector of airlines, and there was nine airlines, and I could just see the chart of how long the average employee has been there. I would just by the one where the employees have been there, the longest, and that's another thing when you're talking about buying dental. Why would you buy dental practice where the oldest person that office has been there three years? I mean, my new hygienist one we just hired has been there nine years and. You know? So so gyms is classic. So so these. This is Dennis and said, let me throw you under a bridge. Some ended on his wonder that back in the day when it was gold, crowns, or an PFM the porcelain wood easily crack off the metal that when somebody something hard, the weakest the weakest part was the person to the medal. But now some people are wondering since Brookshire an elephant can stand out. That's not gonna break if you bite down on something too hard. Then what would give would it be the root canal fracture? And if that is so would you do you think we should go to softer stuff like camouflage blocks that could absorb some of the force? So do you think crown Bronx can be too hard? And do you think it should shit back to something softer to force or nothing? That's an issue. No. I don't think it's an issue. I think there's a theoretical issue. Right. It seems like such a hard material hits this other hard material. But the point is at this at this time Howard. They're sixteen million bucks or crowns that are out there. And then. Doctors Gordon enroll Christmas, and they just published an eight year clinical study, and what they found is that Brooks are wears the opposing dentition much less than than any other material that they've ever tested. So a lot of the hypotheticals of Jesus material seem so hard so strong and must be it must be unkind to to to materials or to the natural dentition just hasn't just has improved it out. So as you said, there's there's always a weak lake in any system. It's interesting. I have a friend who's a process at clear choice, and he put in we do a full arch Brooks or implant bridge. So he had just ten cases of Brookshire against Brock's. Okay. And of course, people are saying, oh my goodness. That's rock against rock. It's gotta be killing the implants, whatever we follow these cases in there. Just isn't any issue. It just just isn't any issue. So is so even you've got theoretical concerns. The clinical data just doesn't bear that out. And. At this point. It's I don't think there's more Brooks crowns that gold, crowns. But there's certainly more Brexit grounds than the other kind of crime. That's out there. So six a lot how come all of my crowns and inlays on lays. Why are they all gold, and why the gold die or is? It still is what percent of your business. It's a great material. It just got horrendously expensive and at certain times that that price will spike up, right? And that's what really made Brooks or that was the impetus to develop this product for Jimmy was was it's actually Gordon christianson relevant. They real crystals today. They had this list of things they wanted to develop for the perfect material. And they wanted it to be tooth color. They wanted to be reasonable price. It's like the white version of gold. Okay. In the problem is gold just got to expensive, and and Brookshire fulfills all these other requirements that they that they listed. So it's we're lucky we have this material or a lot of people would be pressured out of the dental restorative market. So let's go back to this terrible injuries scanner which is owned by align technology, which loans, invis- align. Do you all those patents? Seems like have all starting to expire? And we've seen explosion of clear liners companies. Pop up on the market even Henry shines starting their own clear liner is that a business that glide wants to get into? Not at this time. We're really restorative based business, and we really haven't done a lot with orthodox this time. That's not to say that we wouldn't be involved in the future. But at this time, we're not I think that clear liners are great part of the market. But as you mentioned, there's quite a bit of intellectual property. That's that's closely protected by these companies, and we're not interested in in trading on anybody. So and buddies property. Yeah. So I want you to put your dad on your old enough to have a child that just walked out of dental school. She's your daughter she's twenty four she just graduated from dental school. She's let's say she's three hundred thousand dollars that you've been in this business for thirty one year even hung out with the greatest minds, the greatest companies what advice would you give her? I would say pedal to the metal do it. Okay. You know, there's a lot of trends. Driving Denison certain direction. And I'm on the dean's board of of one of the dental schools. And I've seen our graduates, you know, forty percent graduates every year go to work for and if that's in of your comfortable doing anyone that I think it's great. I I mean there there are some tremendous DSO's where you can have a great career. But my hypothetical daughter, I would say, hey, let's let's get the money. Let's go out there because dentistry is a fantastic business. And if you go out there and treat it like a business, and do your homework and do your research and commit to and understand that you gotta you gotta know marketing finance operations, HR all those other things you've got to do that. And if you're willing to make that commitment to it, you can be fantastic league successful and that and that's the direction I would point people to. Blythe different alleys and talking about thinking in fear and scarce Iverson hope growth abundancy, I'm interviewing the editorial director of of chair site magazine, which is one of the greatest dental magazines out there and people someone say will why would he advertise a competing magazine to dental town? It's because I think anybody who's doing anything to help my homeys is my friend. I don't think in fear in scarcity. I've also never met a dentist who only reads one magazine. I mean, I mean, you know, I don't know a dentist even owns one implant system. Do you know any dentist Italy own what implant system? Down. You know, I read all because as you said first of all we can learn from everybody, and and Secondly, violent do a better job. I wanna see what what my competitors are doing as. Well. Oh, I sure don't. And when when someone to cleanse to come on the show, why can't because I write for a competing magazine. Like, well, I'm not competing with anybody. So how is there magazine competing with me? I mean, I mean back the implant systems all my friends that are my age guess how many implant systems they own? Three five. Yeah. Yeah. How many composites do they have how many composites how many bonding agent? I mean, Quinn thinking stupid, Phil, right? Yeah. To talk about light magazine. I'm how many issues have you done. You're on. Also. Yeah. I mean, I've been I've been here about about three years little more than three years now. So so we do for issues the year before that we had to magazines we had inclusive magazine, which was which was all about implants. And then we had chair side. We have emerged the two together a couple of years ago because we felt that implant dentistry was no longer a separate disciplined than if you're practicing general dentistry, you're involved in implants, why have two different magazines. So what we try to do in each issue chair site Edel? I'm just understanding up. The the issue that it'll be mailed at in about a week, and we've got forensic chemistry. Oh, my props your Howard. I got we don't that. Laughing why? Because I it's a big joke at her office because we say, well, you know, if we wouldn't be a better dentals, I'm magazine we should be like glide, well, their magazine magazine because seriously if you go back like twenty thirty issues it looks like the Miss Universe. Contest. I mean, I really I can hold up. Hold up your online versions where every single one of them is a beautiful beautiful. So is that is that really your secret sauce you first start with who's a gorgeous female dentists and then worked backwards from there is that your strategy. No, it's not. But, but you know, things will. Doc Mary shields. Who's on the cover? A really a really sharp for insect danced, and that's an area that a lot of data stone know about and she does she photographs very well. The next time you see real I want you to tell her that. I said on my podcast out of all the beautiful women that have been on the cover your magazine, rela is still rocking it the hottest. That's very kind thing to say, so awesome. I think I my dental mom, you know, it was her and Gordon who made me realize that if I studied everything known to dentistry, I could never figure it out. And that if I practice for fifty years all still die with more questions than I have answered because that's how complex and it was actually Gordon rela who really made me realize. Wow. I went into some it's not like carpentry where you can actually figure out how to build a cabinet. This is a plumbing where you can actually fix toy your into something. That's probably not going to be all figured out for several thousand years. I remember Ella. Telling me one time, she goes. The pyramids were five thousand years ago. And we're probably only halfway of understanding. I mean, I joke on physics like physics physicists. No, everything except ninety five percent of the mass of the universe dark energy. You know, black holes. I mean, you literally have a list of twenty things that physicists don't have a clue about. But then when they talk about what they know about they act like they just really really know everything it's like, dude, the list of what you don't know is infinitely longer than what you do know. And that's what real gave to me rolling. Gordon gave me that. I don't care. How hard you try and how much you read and how much you study your they're not gonna figure out dentistry for thousands of years. And they have this insatiable curiosity. You know, it's funny Howard. It's you've probably been involved in some research. I have over the years, and it's so hard to produce good clinical research to go through. The dental journals there are really very few long term random land controlled clinical trials, and they that's what they do. They do these long term trials. They took a look at materials. They don't look at it for six months. Eight months. You know, hey, you know, everything works for three years. It doesn't matter. What it is. But let's see how it doesn't five year six year seventy and that's and that's the big difference. And that's you know, for them to publish this this Brookshire study this eight year Brookshire study was amazing for us. Because there's nobody else they could do that. Well, I can't believe you stayed on. I can't believe I got the. The dental director of the largest dental avatar in the world that come on my show for free and talk to my home, as we went way over the brand's an hour, and we're way over but Neil seriously. I think you for all that you've done for dentistry. Thank you so much for coming on the show if you can get Jim glide Willard, Jack come on the show. I'll name my next grandchild after you if I can get my voice a sign off on it. But I think all you done for dentistry, and thanks so much. It was an honor and a privilege to podcasts interview an honor for me will really enjoyed it. Howard. And I will I will work on Jim and Jack forty well. Tell Jim Jim's arms an Irish so he has to he has to come on show or it'll be or I won't drink there with them. But thanks for coming on the show, buddy.

Dennis Howard Jack Han Brooks United States Jim Jim Mark zig Ziglar Ohio Jim glide Kansas Zimmer Wichita Brookshire Zimmer CEO Jim he herb Kelleher Willer
How One Airline Sees the Future of Flying

The Journal.

15:49 min | 5 months ago

How One Airline Sees the Future of Flying

"Virtually no one has been traveling on airplanes in recent months At one point air traffic was down ninety six percent. There's just not a lot of flying going on at all a couple of weeks ago. Fewer than one hundred thousand people were going to. Tsa Checkpoint Simply Day and that's the lowest level since like the fifty is that's being set back decades to a time when travel was sort of special occasion thing that was reserved for only like slim segment of society. Right now airlines have been up ended. Passengers are terrified of being exposed to the corona virus. International travel has largely been shut down and many spots people are still sheltering in place. It has forced airlines to rethink how they operate. The goal here is to stop the bleeding. We've got to make sure that South West arrives and if that means as a radically smaller airline will. Then that's what we'll have to do today on the show the CEO of America's largest domestic airline. On what it will take to get passengers back in the air and what could happen if they don't welcome to the journal our show about money business and power. I'm Kate Line. It's Tuesday may nineteenth recently our airline reporter. Alley cider interviewed the CEO of Southwest Airlines. Who hasn't been on a plane in two months? When's the last time you went two months without getting on a plane? Oh I can't remember in my career Have to go back to the nineteen eighties For for something like that. Gary Kelly has been running southwest airlines for about twelve years. South is interesting because they're actually the largest. Us carrier of domestic passengers. So they're really good. Barometer for what consumers are feeling and you know. Are People Ready to be traveling again. And so far the answer seems to be not really corona virus has ended a record long streak of prophets for airlines over the last few years airlines have increased their margins by putting more people into cabins and charging fees for bags. Inflate changes but now bookings have plummeted. Customers have demanded refunds and airlines have been forced to waive change fees. All of this has been devastating to their bottom lines. Here's alley all of the earliest reported losses in the first quarter. They're burning through tens of millions of dollars of cash every day and under the terms of the Act Airlines Scott's fifty billion dollars they have a tricky balance to strike in that they have to keep buying some flights under the terms of their federal aid. The government wanted to make sure that communities didn't lose air service altogether so they have to keep flying. They can't just shut down but our people like booking tickets to vegas or they're Bachelorette party in Nashville. No not really people are not really booking tickets right now. Some Airlines has said. They've seen a little bit of booking especially a couple months out and it's not clear. If those are real bookings earth those are people just kind of testing the market and they see a great price and they they buy it but they might not actually travel. You're not really seeing people really committing to plans in one. Reason is that things just aren't open right now. Why would you book a trip to Disney? World's not knowing if it'll be ready for you airlines are trying many things to lure customers back and get them to book and take a trip at South West. They've lowered the price of some tickets in our interview. I asked Gary Kelly about ticket prices and if he thought low fares would help people get back onto planes and even seems like a responsible thing to encourage and he said well. I don't know that it's necessarily trying to incent people to travel as much as it. Is that if you're going to we want you to fly on southwest and I'll just quote Our beloved herb Kelleher. After nine eleven he said we are all low-fare carriers now and that's where we are here again if people are thinking about travel they're definitely going to be watching their pocket book. We're in a recession. You've got high unemployment all of a sudden so it's very much a low-fare environment but cheaper tickets aren't all that airlines are trying to do as they look toward the future plan for writers who they hope will eventually want to return. They've put in place new policies to help people feel more safe on board. Many major airlines have required that passengers wear masks. They've stopped serving drinks and food and they've invested a lot more time and money into sanitizing the cabins. They're recognizing that people need to feel. The planes are safe and they're being thoroughly cleans so they're using these fog irs spray disinfectants. All over the planes to make every surface and they're starting to do that not just overnight but really between every flight so that's really the biggest thing that they say they're doing to help protect customers and something that Gary Kelly made sure to talk about in our interview. These airplanes are speaking Spanish clean. They've obviously got EPA filters in terms of the air quality which is virtually hospital grade quality. Air So is a very clean and safe environment. It's just never going to be perfect no matter what we do on top of cleaning airlines are changing the ways people move around the plane. It's really virtually impossible to get the full social distancing on a flight. There's almost no way that there can be six feet of distance between two passengers. Some airlines like air. France are boarding passengers at the back of the aircraft. I to limit traffic jams. In the aisle budget carrier. Ryanair has stopped letting passengers line up to use the toilet instead. They have to raise their hand to get permission. From a flight attendant. Many airlines have limited. Which seats can be booked? Some have blocked middle seats altogether. At one point. Frontier Airlines gave passengers the option of paying thirty nine dollars to ensure the seat next to them would be empty. After some criticism from lawmakers that plan was cancelled southwest is taking a slightly different approach. But it still limiting passengers. We're not booking the airplanes full right now. Our load factor right now is very modest anyway. You know roughly twenty percent. So it's pretty easy to accomplish a decent amount of physical distancing on board the airplane not thinking about taking out middle seats. We're not thinking about blocking middle seats. Fight travel with my grandchildren. I want to sit by them. Sometimes when there are more passengers for a flight than southwest allows it adds an extra plane which means to mostly empty. Planes are flying to the same location instead of one fuller one. The cost of running that extra plane adds up. It's really not a viable intermediate or long term solution to cap a flight at sixty percent. That's not a break. Even load factor. So it's just not a viable business. Companies would run out of cash but beyond the on board experience as they look to the future airline execs in the US. Including Gary. Kelly are asking for more measures to be taken before passengers even get to their gates. The one thing that I feel strongly about is that we need the TSA to do health screening. In addition to the other security duties that they have temperature checks. They're not foolproof but they're helpful and better than doing nothing. Why does he want? Tsa To handle that. Well I think from what Kelly ascend from. What other Airline execs? I've talked to have said they feel by the time you get to the gate. You kind of already been through the whole travel process and you've been to airports and if you're positive you may have already infected other people. They also want this to be something. That is uniform so that you're not getting a slightly different policy with every airline. Tsa could soon begin checking passenger temperatures at about a dozen airports according to Ali sources passengers with the temperature of one hundred point. Four or higher would be flagged but TSA has some concerns about asymmetric passengers as well as whether temperature checks fall within the scope of its security mission. The details are still being worked out. Airline executives are also asking for other health screening measures. I think there's interesting in having you know some kind of economy any passport or some way for people to verify that they're healthy and haven't had symptoms and haven't had exposure and went to the dentist. I had to answer a dozen questions answered. Yes to any of those it was. We'll go home for two weeks so I think there are some things like that that can be implemented. That would make sense. What you don't want obviously is sick people to come to the airport and in confined spaces whether it's the airport or the airplane so I think that would be the next line of Defense to look at the health declarations. Gary talked about the immunity passports. It's not yet clear what that will look like in some of it depends what the testing landscape looks like. In a couple of months. You know how widely available tests are there to get but yeah in theory you know maybe you need to get tested before you fly and you get a registry. That says that you're negative. Do you think there could be any passenger pushback to these ideas over privacy concerns? I think that this pandemic is probably going to change a lot of our views about what is acceptable from a privacy perspective. You know there are things that I think the airlines think won't last you know it's not clear how long everyone will be wearing masks all the time. But some of these things like disclosing your health status. I think their view is that might become a bigger part of the fabric of our everyday life but the future of airline travel is likely to include more than immunity passports and temperature scans at the security line. It could also mean fewer flights and more layovers. That's after the break. A Tang runs the oldest dim sum restaurant in New York. City's Chinatown it's been close since mid-march we were actually facing one of the largest declines in business ever it was just a combination of Sino Phobia Encino Phobia and now. He's thinking about how to reopen. You can hear a story on the window. A new series about how the pandemic is changing our lives. Listen for free on spotify Welcome industry experts think? It could be years before air travel returns to its recent highs and so to survive with lower revenues airlines might have to adjust to the new reality by downsizing. We burn quite a bit of cash in the month. April's close to a billion dollars so that can't continue if we can get to break even cash flow in six months time then. I think that it just gives us a little bit of breathing room to consider our next steps. What we're going to do in the meantime is Look at accelerating airplanes that are eligible for retirement. We will also offer voluntary separation. Package is for employees whether it's early retirement or beyond so all of those kinds of things to downsize the airline by some amount right now. I think is very sensible. No airline is going to go out of business by being too small right now so I think that. We'll want to err on that side and you know I've been very honest with our employees that this is bad and there's no way to know exactly what will happen in the future. We'll do everything we can to avoid furloughs. But it's just not a guarantee that I can make. We've got to make sure that South West arrives and if that means as radically smaller airline will. Then that's what we'll have to do. Smaller Airlines would likely mean cutting some routes pulling out of some airports and reducing the number of direct flights and those changes will have a big impact on passengers people to having a lot of options depending on where you live. Maybe being served by multiple airports and being able to fly anywhere direct. And you know. I think we'll be seeing a lot less than that going forward in the long run. It's going to be an adjustment for consumers as well and these sorts of changes to the way we fly masks and social distancing. Do you think they'll be around for awhile? I'm not sure how long some of these things last there is a fear that this experience might prompt a longer term. Rethinking travel you know. Are People going to just use zoom because they realize they don't have to meet face to face as frequently I think that's not a popular view among airline execs? I think what they think. And what Gary Kelly is that is that ultimately they expect things will get back to normal will travel and I think you will see full airplanes. I don't know that we will be back to twenty nineteen levels immediately. I'M NOT SMART ENOUGH. Know whether that's eighteen months which. I've seen some predictions of or whether it's thirty six or whether it's five years it will get back but only when this pandemic is out of people's minds and so there I think you're back to more quote normal airport and airplane environment but I'll bet some things don't change I bet if we can implement health screening I bet that stays and I think that that would be a good thing. I think mass go away but you know even before the pandemic you would see the occasional customer who wears mass. So they'll probably be more prevalent in terms of the on board experience. I think we'll have in-flight service again. It's learning from this is the hygiene sanitation cleaning. All of those are good things and I think all those things should be retained. I think one thing airline executives are hoping for is that there's a lot of pent up demand for travel. People have been toothed up in their homes with their families stuck in one place and that a lot of people are just itching to get out once they can so. I think that's the possibility that we will see a little bit of a boost once shelter and police are lifted. And there are some reopening you know if it goes smoothly in that perhaps people will be anxious to start traveling again. We'll see if that turns out to be true That's all for today. Tuesday may nineteenth the journal is a co production of Gimblett and the Wall Street Journal. Thanks to Michelle Hackman Benjamin Cats and Mike Journey for their reporting on the story. Thanks for listening see tomorrow.

Gary Kelly Southwest Airlines Smaller Airlines South West Tsa Act Airlines Frontier Airlines US TSA CEO Kate Line reporter Alley cider herb Kelleher America Ryanair EPA France
195: Fierce Leadership, Radical Transparency, and Deeper Human Connectivity with Susan Scott on the TalentGrow Show with Halelly Azulay [ep36 rebroadcast]

The TalentGrow Show

00:00 sec | 2 months ago

195: Fierce Leadership, Radical Transparency, and Deeper Human Connectivity with Susan Scott on the TalentGrow Show with Halelly Azulay [ep36 rebroadcast]

"Hey they tell and growers welcome back to the talent grow show I'm Elliot's lie your leadership development strategist. Here at talent grow and talent grow is my leadership consulting firm that I started back in two thousand and six to develop leaders that people actually want to follow earlier during the pandemic I decided to begin releasing some of the best amazing earlier episodes that we've had. We have six years almost into this show and so many amazing episodes that. I figured why allow them to collect dust when you can probably enjoy them for the first time if you've only started at some point after within the six years later on and also if you heard it six years ago or five years ago, four years ago, you probably remember it. So there is some episodes just bring new value because all of the content is evergreen during these days of the pandemic a lot of us are thinking about how To have real conversations with people, how to connect with people in a genuine way especially since so many of us are working remotely many of us have had our entire work world completely disrupted and so many things are going on in our culture in terms of the kind of unrest and topics that are coming up where it's just making it harder for people to really connect and to really be transparent. So I am bringing back the episode with. Susan Scott who is the selling author of the book fierce conversations and fierce leadership and she and I talk about fierce leadership radical transparency and how to create deeper human connectivity. I think this will be so useful for you at any time but especially during these times. So I, wanted to bring this back. I also wanted to share with you and email that I received from a listener after this show originally aired this episode because what my hope. Is that you get a Ha's and insight but I really hope that you take action. You know that I wanna make the town of grow show super actionable for you because I want to actually improve right I want you to become a better leader and the only way that that can happen is if you do something different so this particular listener Natalie wrote me an email which I so appreciate because it illustrates what's possible and it was about. This episode listen she said Hi Halley I just wanted to take a minute to thank you for your shows. I just listened to the radical transparency podcasts on my way to work yesterday just. So happens there was an opportunity to have a fierce conversation at work in the afternoon. Normally I would have let the incident fester or I would have let my emotions takeover and vented to a teammate. Instead I addressed the issue directly with the person, I Needed to address it with the conversation was so productive and felt amazing I haven't even deeper level of respect for the person and I do believe feeling is mutual I will be sure to listen to Susan's tedtalk as this is a really important subject matter. Thanks again for making a difference and have a great weekend Natalie. Thank you Natalie again for your kind note, I really love to hear from listeners so that I can know that I'm not. Just talking into the ether and that the work that I do here at the talent grow makes a difference that's intention to make an impact to help you and to actually make the world full of people who are better leaders. So anyway, I hope that this gives you incentive further incentive if you needed it to listen to this amazing episode, we're GonNa stop this particular intro and we're going to jump into my original intro and conversation with Susan Scott. Welcome to the talent grow show where you can get actionable results oriented insight and advice on how to take your leadership communication and people skills to the next level and become the kind of leader people to follow and now your host and leadership development strategists Elali. Welcome back to the talent grow show this is hell Elliot's rely on your leadership development strategist and I'm excited to introduce you to episode thirty six where my guest is Susan Scott Susan and I talk about the term fierce conversations which she coined in books about and what it means and why it's important that we have them, and also what is a common obstacle that we all face and? How to overcome, it would having these types of conversations both at work and in our personal lives Susan and I also talk about to be more open and more transparent and invite the same from others. There is something that a lot of us are doing that might be getting in our way, and also why she thinks careful conversations are almost always failed conversations. In fact, we talk about the. Concept of radical transparency which Susan advocates and the difference between what fierce leaders are doing and what other leaders are doing, and of course, Susan shares one actionable suggestion that will help you upgrade your leadership and communication skills and will make a huge difference in the quality of your conversations and quality of your relationships and I think you should really begin doing it today as soon as you finish. Listening to this episode so here we go. Episode Thirty six. Let's go welcome back to the talent grow show I'm Elliott rely your leadership development strategist and I'm very happy to introduce you to today's guests who is Susan Scott, the founder and CEO of a company called fierce. She's also speaker and a best selling author of two books, fierce conversations and fierce leadership Susan welcome to the town grow show. Thank you how Elliott's pleasure to be. Here it is my pleasure to have you with us, and before we get started sharing your amazing insights with our listeners, I always like to make sure that we get introduced to your professional journey in a very short amount of time. Can you describe where you started and how you got to where you are today? Well I can describe the trajectory and I won't go into the details about how I jumped from one to the next to the next because it's too complicated. But I started out as high school English teacher became then a head hunter and then the vice president. The headhunting firm then became a facilitator of all kinds of programs both for personal growth and for business and Ben became the chair of two groups of CEO's here in Seattle. That, I ran for thirteen years and from that that was really the primary launching pad for fierce. So you know life is very curly and you can't straighten it out and nobody's lies goes in a straight line mind certainly didn't. I've found that to be so true with almost everyone I speak to, which is one of the reasons why I selfishly asked this question because I just find it fascinating to hear about these different trajectories in the meandering paths that lead people, different places and I hope to inspire the listeners to see that there are so many ways to reach your potential and they are rarely something that you would have predicted going in. Yes and you know I think people sometimes are hesitant to commit like I have two granddaughters going into college and you know what should my major be? That seems to be a very intimidating choice, but I've said to the doesn't matter I mean just pick something that you're interested in and give your permission to change your mind because. People do change. I mean. There's nobody stays in a company for fifty years and he more and get the gold watch when they retire, it's much more interesting to move as the. As your soul requires you to do from time to time. Yes it's true. So it's always been true but now it's more possible than ever right it's more accepted than the right yea right on tastic it and and for you what a great and amazing career you have built. I've come across your name before meeting you. I was really fortunate to have just met you recently in March when we both attended a professional conference both West were in the learnings and so we connected and I feel fortunate and before that, I was very familiar with your. Work because it's one of the most often quoted books and your company is extremely successful as a result of the body of knowledge that you have built especially initially with your book fierce conversation. So we only have a half hour to talk, and so we can't cover everything that you have to share about the topic. But if you could summarize what you think is the most important lesson that people need to learn about having some of those conversations that lots of people want to avoid and that you've been helping people in the world have these conversations. What do you think most remain lesson? Well I think I think it's you know when we're doing a training for our clients the first thing we do is Get across the very important. Why are we even talking about the topic conversations and I really want people to understand that we are all navigating our lives one conversation at a time, our careers, our companies are relationships I lives are succeeding failing gradually gradually gradually. Then suddenly one conversation at a time. So for people to even be conscious. Of that Is Very very important and most of us are not really conscious of that. So. And I think right now You know a fierce conversation is. At. Its simplest definition is one in which we come out from behind ourselves into our conversation and makes them real. There is a but that's not so easy and and we tend to sort of. Set. Settled on beliefs and truths, and then behave if our beliefs and truths are. are real and. That can cause a problem for example, an obstacle for most of us and I include myself here how Ellie is that we're in love with our own beliefs our own practices are on way of life and we're so convinced that they're right that their true that they're irreputable that we don't entertain the possibility that our truth may have only element of truth in them or many they were true once upon a time and they're no longer true today or they may be true in theory. But in reality they aren't working and I'm thinking specifically of the current political debate that's going on the US that is. You know very, very disturbing to a lot of us and I think that. You know from that perspective of fierce conversations when our when our version of the truth is cast in bronze and we suspect suppress all evidence to the contrary by by silencing those that we lead or silencing those who see things differently than we do, we ended up continuing to practice the same oh habits and often are ultimately left contemplating the ashes of our downsized opportunity because. You know no one person is right all the time about everything and we wonder when the next turning point is going to come along and we don't recognize we're going to incinerate that one two and the point I. I really want people that they considering today is that being strong and being right? Ten be off not turn on's think that modesty is called for here humility I mean maybe great you may know a lot of stuff, but you're not that great. You don't know everything that's true for all of us. So we need for leaders especially, but just human beings to become more open, more flexible, less egoistic, less hypocritical and we really got to. Loosen our death grip on whatever we believed to be the truth simply because it's how we want the truth to look. So in a fierce conversation, one of the objectives is to provoke and that's for everybody and that means we've got to invite people to to to influence us by sharing competing perspectives, and that's really hard. You know I I've been avoiding. Discussions about you know who I'm GonNa vote for in November because I have such strong feelings if I if I said exactly what I was thinking I'd end up. Apologizing half the time for the other half of the things that I said, there are some topics that are so emotional for us that we almost have to avoid them or we just have to be very. Aware of how strongly we hold our views and that other people hope very different views and learn to become curious about they're thinking you know and just say we'll tell me more about this instead of just jumping right in and making them wrong. So I, it sounds like one of your prescriptions is to cultivate curiosity. Yes Is there anything you know genuine curiosity? Yeah. But we also have to. Really, be willing to disclose what we're actually. Thinking and feeling even if it may. You know it feels risky at times if I if I say when I'm really thinking if I share what I'm really feeling right now you know there could be. consequences you know I could make things worse than they are. It could be not career enhancing move, for example, and yet what I have found is that there there's something within us just about everybody on the planet there's something within a second response to those who level with us. You know who don't suggests are compromises for us. Who will say this is this is what? I. Believe this is what I'm thinking. This is what I'm feeling. And, I'm just interested in understanding what your thinking, what you're really thinking and feeling and I'm inviting you to push back on my thoughts. I'm inviting you to express ideas entirely different from mine and help me understand. How you see things. Do you do you find that? This is something that everyone can do in all of their conversations or are there prerequisites like a certain level of trust or certain level of mutual respect or maybe certain conditions of safety in order to be able to be transparent if you know that's a really it's a common question that I that I get and. if we wait. For just the right moment where we think that just the right amount of trust is there the right amount of whatever is there and the Sun Stars perfectly aligned through the right music in the background and there's you know we're just not gonNA have those conversations I think we have to be Well. Shakespeare would say screw your courage to the sticking point and come out from behind ourselves and model what it is that we want. You know because trust trust is built one conversation at a time. It's also lost one conversation at a time and trust requires persistent identity that means me showing up as myself completely consistently all the time every day. So that I'm not different depending on who I'm with I mean I'll never forget this woman in in one of my courses in the early days he said. I I really used to. Try to present the images that I thought others desired of me. So I had you know my image that I would project for my boss, the majestic project for my. Colleagues for my customers I go home the image I would project to my family. I'd be out in the community, the imaging project to my neighbors, the image I would predict. Pastor and my rabbi might priest or whatever, and she said I woke up one day on recognizable to myself. And I think that can happen. You know when we're we're being so careful and waiting for conditions to be just right and I think. I think we've got to. Be ourselves including with our flaws with all of us have consistently and. With good intent that's very important of course and stop being. So careful I think careful conversations almost always failed conversations because they're just postponing the conversation that really want and need to take place and and one one point I wanNA make Halley is that fierce conversations? Are. They do include the conversations you mentioned where the ones we've been avoiding Maybe, we you know we need to confront somebody I about their behavior, their attitude. And I've certainly never witnessed his. Recovery From At attitude or bad performance. So it does require conversation but a fierce conversation since it's basically about being real and it's you know wants to interrogate reality and provoke learning and tackle challenges and enrich relationships. It can be how we conduct meeting. How have a one to one where we're just exploring you know the issues on somebody's plate it can be praising someone it can be letting them know specifically what it is that we love about them and appreciate about them. All of that is fierce. Very fierce it's very real and there's not nearly enough of it going around. When I think about this I do I actually have been thinking about the so much it keeps coming up in every corner no matter who I talk to are what I'm reading it seems to be coming more and more and I think it's it's a result of the world that we live in where social media and maybe the millennial generation have opened up the floodgates of an or no that's maybe not the. Floodgates, but it's like the dam has been lifted that that said, you can separate your personal self from your professional golf where you can process image or hide certain things about you know like everybody sees us in our full glory now everywhere right and it's very difficult to screen or filter out certain things to certain cases and so that that it's like that coming to terms with you you have to project one. Consistent Persona everywhere and that's going to be uncomfortable for people who may be you another way another world the people that didn't know another world don't know what the problem is probably Another world. But what do you mean I mean the that those of us who have been maybe in the workplace where you did keep personal things out and you projected, right? Yeah. Like you came in at your Sudan you chose very carefully what what pictures you could put on your desk and no one knew really very much about you besides what you chose to display in. Your workplace in you kept your mouth is what about your opinions about certain things and now you like your your pictures are on facebook pictures on twitter your your viewpoints about politics about every everything's out an everyone can almost everyone can see it I mean there's still people who try to keep it compartmentalized, but it's like they're just holding onto these threads that are not there anymore. Right. Well I. I. will say that I still don't understand why. So many people think that the world is interested in everything that they're doing. After. Everything on facebook and take a gazillion selfish. You know whereas they walk down the street. But, I you know in talking with some of the younger people in our offices and we have a lot of them They're saying you know it's it's really there's this. Desire to belong I need to the long and somehow posting yourself in some way on facebook is saying I'm here I'm here I'm still part of the tribe you know see me notice made I I wanna be in not on the outside and that I get. I. Do think that You know there there is such a thing as over sharing In the work place it's like, okay we do have work to do and it's funny here we have a very playful culture and lots of laughing lots of teasing I mean there there's all kinds of fun things going on. We've got a happy hour today towards the end of the day that will be it's always fun and. We have work to do so you know so so there's the Chitchat and the playfulness and let's get to work but I don't think. I don't think they're too many secrets here. I mean we know who's struggling who's gay we know who's by we know. And it's We know who's voting for WHO and we? You know we just know these things. It's not it's not hidden and people discover very quickly that it is safe here to disclose who you really are. And that you're welcome, you know whoever you are. You're welcome as long as you model the values that are important to success within our culture and and and model the principles and practices that we teach our clients I I think that's a really good thing to point out that it's not like anything goes and everybody can be anything you can be yourself. But if you're within an organization and within a certain teams, there are shared values that you're expected to. Yeah. Yeah and we have and we have terminated people who did not. Model, those values you nope and you can you can. Herb Kelleher who was the founder? Of southwest, airlines would tell new employees we can and will fire you for a bad attitude. You know you don't get to stay here just because we hired you yeah and even if you're meeting your goals, if your attitude is bad and there's something about you, that just feels off we'll say goodbye to you in which she well somewhere else. So we do need to pay attention to how we're behaving in in all of our lives to your point. Hello I, our personal personalized as well as our our professional lives because they they they're. They're pretty inseparable at times I mean we we see who who someone is over time. Yeah. The whole person. Yeah and so I think that what we're agreeing on is that maybe it's raising the bar that you can't. You can't be a jerk in your personal life. You have to raise the bar actually step up and and be a transparent and. Aspired to be a great person in all of your all of your interactions and all of your conversations you can't be a one way at home and one way at work where works like no. Yeah. No I mean the real you is gonNA. We're GONNA WE'RE GONNA get who the real you is whether you want to or not. So I mean people have amazing radar and we just pick up what the truth is about someone pretty quickly you know. One of one of the principles a fierce conversations is obey your instincts you know don't. Notice them or pay attention to them obey them. You were getting these messages from this our own private. Intelligence officer in our heads and our souls and our guts that sending his messages all day long, and there's almost always something to those messages we get. So even if somebody standing in front of us and saying one thing and we get the sense that they're actually saying they're gonNA turn right and I'm pretty sure they're gonNA to turn left you know. We're usually right. We don't even know how we know these. Yeah. In fact, the episode that will come out two weeks after this one is live is about decision making in about how you should listen to your intuition, but you should also train your intuition because there's a lot of mistakes that you make because of thinking fallacies. So it's very interesting. You know that whole trust your instincts, but but be careful. Because they can lead you again. Absolutely going back to the first thing I was saying about when we fall in love with our beliefs and practices and we believe this is true and we're not open to the fact that. It may be it isn't there maybe isn't entirely true Then then we can. We won't even see the things that Challenge. Are we won't see them. Yeah. No, we have that confirmation bias. Yeah we WANNA BE RIGHT WE WANNA be right. One of one of the differentiations between a fierce leader and not. So fierce later is that a fiercely wants to get it right not be right fiercely or wants to get it right for all of us and that would mean inviting those competing perspectives and really inviting it and modeling it and and being. Completely transparent and inviting that transparency from others than when they are transparent for God's sakes don't punish them. Thank them. You know even if you didn't WanNa hear this today even if you feel completely differently if you've invited people to tell you what they really think and feel and they do consider yourself very lucky. Don't mess it up by saying well yeah, I hear you. And then diving right back into your own. You know building your own case again, which is what? We do we all of us do this I've done it too, and then we wonder why okay. There's no trust here because we just top this person that when I ask you to tell me what you really thinking I don't really mean it. Yes you know. That's so true end we do teach week with our reactions just as much as with our words and our actions and I'm joy I enjoyed your your, you have tax talk about Fierce leadership article transparent is radical radical. Yeah. And that is yeah, that's so interesting and it sounds like that's what we're talking about here. It is and and that's you know people use the I'm hearing the word transparency more these days than ever heard them before and we're all attracted to authenticity to transparency, and yet we tend to the mistake we make that we think that this is about other people that other people need to be transparent that other people need to be authentic don't recognize where in our own lives we are not being transparent. We are being in authentic, and so it's very important to model what it is that you say you want them and then behave with grace and genuine appreciation when someone steps. You know steps over that risky line and said, okay, you asked here's what I here's what worries me. Yeah. So we'll even maybe to say something like thank you I know that took guts to say that and I really appreciate that you said that say more about it. Great. That was exactly what I wanted to ask you like, what do you specifically say when someone says confronts you or says something that is difficult to hear and that is a great example. Thank you for sharing that. That's gots. Thank you for saying that. Tell me more keep talking you know say more about that. Yeah, and made it. You can't. You can't fake fierce. No and you can't you write. Anyone curated genuinely interested. Very, Gab. Thank you for sharing that I. appreciate in before we before we wrap up, we're GONNA, share a very specific and actionable tip but I wanna ask you two quick questions before that. Your company actually does not only offer training and consulting on how to have fierce conversations but a whole slew of other related topics that help people become looks. Like better leaders, which is a focused we share in common. So of all those is their favorite that you have or one that you think precedes all the others. Well, I, I want to share with you the thread that runs through everything that's Paris, and that is that ultimately at the end of the day. I. Believe that the next frontier for. Spectacular growth whether it is for an individual human being or for a team within a company or for a company itself that next frontier exponential growth and the only sustainable competitive edge lies in the area of human connectivity. And that occurs or fails to occur one conversation at a time. So for example, you know if we aren't really truly connected to our employees and they aren't connected to one another we we have low employee engagement. If the people that are working directly with our customers and our clients aren't really connecting with our customers beyond just what it is that we do and the price that we charge for it, and we're very vulnerable as a company because their competitor is just have to come in and offer something similar for less than those loyal customers are gone. You know if what we've got going with our employees, an exchange of of time and talent for a paycheck. Then we become a source for head hunters rather than a destination and people are easy pickings easy to move somebody out of a company who doesn't have anything more going for it. Then I come here every day and do what I do, and they get give me a paycheck so. You know really what we're doing is we're teaching people whether we're teaching a course negotiations are on generations on accountability or on. You know team conversations or confrontations or feedback or whatever it is that we're teaching it all comes down to. Connecting at deep level. And I'm I'm telling leaders I've been telling several years now that if you want to become a great leader or a great human being, you must gain the capacity to connect with the people that are important to your success and your happiness at a deep level or lower your aim. So that's that's what fears is is mostly about him. That's a thread that runs through that we do. That's Great I. Love It. I kept feeling like there's metaphors painting themselves in my mind as you were speaking, you know about sort of like connecting fabric in order for there to be a seem, it has to be Titan. Otherwise be cold gaping holes in between it or like a sieve with holes in water flowing through it. You know it just it makes. Yeah, it holds it together even though we're almost out of time, I have to share with you a quick story and see what you think about it. Recently, hours flying to claim government and the woman next to me on the airplane I engaged her in conversation and she was a psychiatrist, but she said that her daughter is an employment lawyer and so as we were talking. About our work and this kind of topic came up she said from her daughter's perspective what she's hearing, what she starting to suggest to her patients is to not share too much because everything can now be taken into a lawsuit or everything can be people are oversensitive. So like when you try to be real and when you try to connect in the workplace, there's so many. Mixed messages that are coming out because we have a litigious society and maybe over protective of everyone in sort of that whole Akeem space and and PC, and in we've be out of people their willingness to be real. What do you think? That's right. I. Think that it's true that we've become that way and the solution to that is not to be careful about what we say you know there are always going to be people out there just looking for a reason to be offended in people who are super sensitive and get their feelings hurt all the time and we let those people run the show and it's ridiculous. It's absolutely ridiculous. So we've got stop killing around the person who's Easily offended or very sensitive or take things the wrong way, and we just need to come straight to that person and say, let's sit down and talk about this I WanNa talk through this I, really truly need to understand. What you're trying to say or what you're concerned about and you know we need to hear each other. because. I've known whole teams and companies who were totally under the thumb of one completely messed up human being who had everybody taught that you don't talk to me about don't say stuff like this to me. Or you'll be sorry and. That's just that's just sad. So we've we can't. We can't let those people run the show and get a lot in a lot of organizations and families I might add are doing exactly that. Yeah, it's true. Thank you. Thank you for that perspective I tend to agree with you. All right. Well, what's one exciting thing that's on your horizon? What's got your attention nowadays? I'm just finishing rewriting fierce conversations and the revised edition. We'll come out next May and I'm really excited about it because I have learned so much since the book was published almost fifteen years ago will be fifteen years when it comes out. So much. I've learned from clients and just being alive a little bit longer. And there are new topics even like when and where to use technology and when not to use technology, which a topic that I get asked about all the time so I'm really excited about how great I can't wait for it to come out and. Did. That's awesome. So Susan, I appreciated all of your insights and your time, and before we tell people how to stay in touch with you what something very actionable that you think listeners could do right away this afternoon tomorrow this week to read their leader. Yeah well, one of the principals a fierce conversation just be here prepared to be nowhere else. And and our conversations I mean if anybody listening to this podcast hello I would just do that when there was somebody whether they're on the phone or face to face or whatever it is to be with that person in that conversation. Prepared to be nowhere else just you know giving somebody the purity of your attention. For however long that takes would make a huge difference and and perhaps also giving yourself a secret rule that you're only going to ask questions once the conversation started you're you're you're not gonNA. Make any declarative statements. You're just going to ask questions to draw somebody out those two things you know really. Being fully. Present. Listening listening, listening, asking asking asking could be more powerful than most people understand yes and so simple and so hard to do and so important actionable and so important because while no single conversation is guaranteed to change the trajectory of a career or a company or a relationship or a life any single conversation can and we don't always know when somebody walks in the door and says, you got him in that this could be one of those conversations. Great. I love it. I think one of the biggest lessons from from your work in from speaking with you today is that conversations each of them a universe, unto itself and extremely important like treat them with the respect they deserve. Exactly because you've gotten to wherever you are in your in your life one conversation at a time. And you'RE GONNA get to wherever you WanNa go and your life or don't. WanNa. Go in your. One conversation at a time. So I'd like people to make them fierce and get where they WANNA go excellent I some fabulous and thank you so I. Hope People will now be clamoring to know more about you and to learn more from you. So what's the best way for people to stay in touch and learn more by? Well we have a wonderful website it's it's just fierce inc I N., T. dot com fierce hank dot com, and there's a place right there on the homepage to sign up for our newsletters in our surveys and our suggestions and you know everything that we're doing, and of course, will announce when the the revised book comes out and all that kind of thing. But there's lots of really helpful suggestions that come out from time to time. Great. Good. Well I will, of course, link to that in the show notes as well as to your books and include your bio Susan. It's been a pleasure to speak with you and I appreciate you. Thank you for coming onto the talent show and sharing with our listeners. You are so welcome. Thanks for tuning in I. Hope you take action on Susan's advice and I hope that you check out the show notes page where we have links and information about everything we've shared his talent dot com forward slash podcast forward slash episode thirty six sharing this with others will help me reach more people with this message in more people take. Action on such important advice as this. So thank you for considering sharing this episode or the podcast in general, and of course, by leaving a review and rating on Itunes, you help more people, discover it through the organic search function on. itunes. So I appreciate that have you grabbed the free tool that I've created for you ten stakes leaders make and how to overcome them. We all know you don't WanNa be making these ten mistakes. Are you go check it out grab the free tool and that way you'll also be able to stay in touch with me remind biweekly newsletter, which is always fast, very upbeat and definitely useful. So, thank you for tuning in. I. Appreciate. You're listening to the talent grow show. I'm Elliot's your leadership development strategist and until the next time make today creek. Thanks for listening to the talent grow show where we help you develop your talent to become the kind of leader that people want to follow for more information visit talent, grow dot, com.

Susan Scott Susan Susan Scott Elliot Elliott Natalie facebook founder and CEO WanNa US Herb Kelleher Seattle vice president Ellie Halley Ben Shakespeare dot Sudan CEO
Introducing... Selling with Purpose

Accelerate!

00:00 sec | 4 months ago

Introducing... Selling with Purpose

"I friends welcome to those sales enablement podcast I'm your host Andy Paul. Not As, you might have noticed. We have different opening to the show today, and there's a reason for that today. I have a special announcement and a special episode just for you. Today. I'm launching season. One of a brand new podcast series titled Selling With Purpose. which enjoy alongside the sales enablement podcast in this limited series, you'll hear six inspiring conversations with top sales leaders, exploring what it means to sell with a mission greater than just hitting your numbers in this era of Covid, nineteen and beyond. So today in place of one of my regular conversations until give you a sneak preview of episode, one of selling with purpose I'll be talking with Ryan Bot. Ryan's the global vice president of inside salesforce Adecco that's Alexa. Twenty four billion dollar global leader in the food services and facilities management business. And Ryan I will be talking about the unique challenges. sodexo spacing to support their customers, and in turn their employees during this period, so let's listen in. New Alarm Bells ringing tonight of the corona virus outbreak in this country doctor say the virus is spread through droplets when someone coughs or season I think the business community it's in their interest that people actually stay home and stop the spread for a business that can allow more employees to telecommute. We want you to do that. In these times. What does it mean to sell with purpose? How can you bring intention to every sales conversation? No matter what you're selling. What of success doesn't mean just one more, closed and sale? For one more life saved. Friends I'm Andy. Paul host of the sales enablement podcast, and this is selling with purpose a special six part of inspiring conversations, exploring what it means to sell with a mission greater than just hitting your numbers in the era of Cova, nineteen and beyond. Tune into here from world class enterprise sales leaders and learn how they're. Six companies will close fifty billion dollars selling remotely. See how they've supported essential workers with the products and services. They need to stay safe and thrive during this time of crisis. A special thank you to our guests, and they're credible companies. SODEXO Henry Shine Gordon Food Services NFP Stanley. Security and CD K for allowing us to share their stories all right. Let's get into it. Ryan welcome to the show. Very much pleasure. Have your where you calling from today. I'm home sequestered in Salt, Lake City Utah, which is which is where I live most most of the time when I when I'm not traveling which I'm not traveling these days. Done a very few of us are read this morning, but We're recording this first week of May, that. Last week on US airlines, average number passengers per plane. Can you guess? Twelve. Seventeen. Terrible sensible for people like you. And I that the travel extensively have traveled all over the world as you do I know you're doing your job. And I certainly defer years mine. That's like. you hard to believe seventeen. It's like almost like throwback days to. Say this to. Pre Pre deregulation days in the seventies that fly the planes. No matter how many people had on him. Right we'll right after nine eleven. I was on a flight. And I couldn't tell. This was because I was coming out of Las Vegas on a Friday night, which no one ever does. Trump. The other way right or if it was due to nine eleven, but it was myself and one other gentleman. Wow and I had this. I had this sense of duty that I needed to keep track of him. You know like and he said and I think he felt the same about me like okay. Keep an eye on this guy. You know maybe some it's going to be. Some suspicious about their. Yeah, yeah, that's funny. Yeah, I think the last time I had so few people on a plane. I think it was about seven. Years ago decades flying on a flight from San Francisco to Memphis and. They got a warning or flying across the they couldn't tell. Those are playing the one after us that had left most their tires on the runway, Oh, and so. We had to do fly bys the terminal, but they're only. Less than a couple of handfuls on this plane, so we're all sitting in like the first two rows of the plane swimming the crash position, and as they come into land that was. Assets thing I remember about few people on the plane and we won't died so anyway so anyway. I, forget those stories. So Global inside sales for Sodexo so tell people about sex. Oh, because they come into contact with Sodexo, most likely on their lives by May maybe aren't aware that they do. Well Yeah exactly so me. One hundred million people interact with sodexo every day. Every day so owns one one nothing about let's. Will present the planet so. We we ended up. Servicing! Lots of things you would recognize so for example if you went to the Super Bowl. Any food there any of the services that was all through us. If you've gone to Lincoln headquarters, had a coffee or had lunch. That's us. In college that's us. But what I like to think about right now is. The loved ones that you care about hospitals right now. and. How those hospitals are being cleaned the people on the frontlines. The people so think about the staff. That need a break and that nita the grab a coffee. In a neat needed cleanroom. That's us. We're making all that happen. all the kids who are home from school who who didn't have mills. Consistent Mills other than at school, and we're providing hundreds of thousands, if not millions of meals to schools right now for kids. That did you know kids? That would otherwise go hungry, so that's all us, too so it's an amazing company it's. Four hundred thousand plus employees around the globe. It's not just food facilities. We actually do a lot of HR software, so recognition employee recognition software benefits rewards employee survey software. And it's pretty interesting for spending Mike my whole life. Working in silicon valley silicon slopes if you will acting, forced us tune, and then finding this place quite different in it's it's. It's honestly it's changed my life credit company, and so you have responsibility for the entire portfolio. I do so when I started. I started sort of an employee recognition side. In the software side and then. We had success with great. And, I guess some people noticed in. got called up to an was acid to overrun. Sorry to run. All of inside sales. Around the around the globe, as well as a big sales, enablement piece, and in particular around North America, so global. We've got teams all over the place. I might team. Is Spread out across the globe. We've got four centers of excellence that were we've built which inside sales digital marketing centers. Around the globe, so many people in that organization so total in that organization. So it's very matrixed. Reports to me, but you know we've got. To stay on your sales team, yes, we'll total sales team around the globe. You know seven hundred. And then we've got sales. enablement sales on says operations, people, probably the tune of forty fifty got it so in your inside sales and It depends on the product you have you said food services? They've got the facilities I got software. Are they handling? Lead generation like SDR's. Are they handling full cycle sales cases? Yeah, it's it's such an interesting model, so the the inside sales team is mostly doing it depends on what which division so the division it's mostly str's. It's finding the opportunities is passing him over the reason we do that as is like all companies you have to. You have to assignment by Skillset, so we segment by function, and it turns out. That field sales is pretty hands on if you're going to put up facility for example Lincoln's headquarters. They want. They want you there they want. They want you to bring the cab designs in the MOCKUP THEY WANNA show you which walls you're gonNA, knock out and put put where it worse cafe and a go. And so that was pretty hard to close over the phone. Even though I would argue and I continue to argue at our business. There's more that we could close over the phone than we think and now and now with Kobe. It's just everything's changed, so I mean like you've interviewed. Lots of people earnings virtual now. So how are we going to do all that But then on the other divisions, they close in facts, some of those, in fact, ninety percent in some cases is all over the phone and we're talking still. Seven hundred thousand million dollar ASP's still. Which is great? Yeah, which more and more I think we as you said, we are going to see because. It's not clear exactly one week when we get back to whatever the next normal is. It certainly will look different than what it is today. Oh Yeah. Yeah it's it's going to It's GonNa. Take a little bit. I, mean we keep thinking. Oh, yeah, assist our minds play funny tricks on us like we're just going to get back to where it was, but I think I think the longer we realized this. Really. There's really no get back I mean things will be changed permanently in some areas forever. But what are some of those areas that you're seeing in your business that you think? Think might be changed forever from US sales perspective. Do you see more people working remotely versus the office or more of the field sales transitioning into inside sales function? Yeah, I think I think forever will be changed. How company treats it safety and cleanliness of the facility so I don't think that changes. I think people will enable and a new level of norm around keeping facility. More sanitized than it was before, so that's that's very interesting for coming exit butter business that of that part of our business, so people are asking. I think forever will be changed the way people manage. I think we're just now beginning sort of mitigation an litigation and that's unfortunate, so I think. The legitimate side of this is going to really pick up companies employees you already see. Are you know taking the Gatien against the company? The company's taking litigation against governments and so on, so it's it's really a it. That's the sad side of it, but I think it's going to. That reaction will cause a sort of a clamp and and people react very differently. IN CHICAGO COM, they'll be procedures and policies that just can't get away from because of Covid, and will Even our kids will will grow up in enter the workforce in also while due to Kobe. Just like we have for nine eleven based Menu. HEERDEN's at airports now is a since nine eleven. That was a demarcation point. We're going to say things like Kobe. It absolutely I think we're unmindful. The fact of how much things have changed in the aftermath of nine eleven for travel security in many many dimensions. They just accepted it right I mean we would have considered them in impositions. US could envision some of us. And I think you're right so. And some of the changes will come, and it could be long lasting as you talked about so. You've obviously had transition huge number of people around the world to work from home status. And how? How did that go for him? Well how how's it going? Andy is the question. Just making the transition, not not the ongoing work. I I. Yeah so so first things first is. Everyone sort of. Immediately realized, okay, this is not this. This is not going to be short term and and And, so we we we have conference calls nonstop. We have zoom calls nonstop. The calls we've picked up all the touch points where we normally would say touch base with the wholesales team once a month. It's now several times a week and We started employee page where people can. We just did a quick pulse survey to get a pulse on how people are doing, so we've done that for example with. With the sales teams. In so how it go initially rough, it was rough. It was exactly what you would expect you get. People who are who are in the field nonstop. Who who used a visiting customers who had customers sites scheduled implementation scheduled. Drawings and layouts all scheduled. And and that stopped, and so those orders. Are you trying to manage those over the phone same time? There's this sense of okay, but I gotta take care of me, and so we're. It's tough I. Mean we're all in this boat? Where yes, a corporate curson! But I'm also individualistic There's a sense of safety that after produce for myself. And and so you're you're find all of ourselves. Find themselves in this rough balance of okay. My customer orders on pause. He's projects from pause. I gotTA worry about my family. I got it, but also that a check in at work and what's next? So I think we're just now entering that phase of. Okay now we're saddled the end we so, what's next and the good news is? We got marketing teams. A couple a couple of weeks ago, not over a month ago to really start to to push drive. A new level of marketing get out on the front lines and the reaction was pretty miserable. I like what are you doing? Everybody's in a pandemic. You can't talk about how we can help them. And I was emphatic, and I said no now. Now's exactly the time we're strong. So, we made a case to the CEO in this time. which is really really tough, think about this. When we're cutting parts of our business or things are on hold. unknown is so great a we sits we we got. We got the instead and now you have to spend money in marketing more than ever. And to his credit, he listened. It's been amazing, so you're gonNA. See some big campaigns. Come from us that talk about. How we can help how we can be present for you in time, need how we can help the return to normalcy with the product offerings you have in the service. Offerings have yeah, I mean the biggest thing is people. People shouldn't have to go through this again at a company. Think about what they have to go through the the you know the. The litigation side alone will help our business because if you're a company who you have employees, hundreds thousand poise, and you have X. amount dedicated facilities to your food, too, and if you were if we call the self operate. If you ran, this self operated. Say You were say see. You were museum and the museum so now we catered food in. We've got our own cafe. We run. We sanitize it right and you've got customers coming in who might end up Catching Cohen and and let's just say a couple of decide. Yeah, that wasn't safe and they're GONNA sue. You don't ever want to go through that again. As a company to see we're, we're bigger or better protected that way because we've had to deal with that for fifty plus years, we had Megyn. So so one of our. Suggestions to employs is put it on us. You. Don't have to go through this again. There companies like us, and there are others you know. Some of our competitors. Great great respectable companies. Put It on those people. That's what they do and and so anyway. It's a really interesting message that we can go out with right now. No matter where your sales team is working from ring, DNA can enable them to be more productive and effective ring. DNA offers a complete platform for remote sales teams that gives reps the tools they need to connect with more prospects and create more opportunities and drive more revenue, no matter where the working from. and managers can get real time insight. They need to coach reps to success. Win More deals from anywhere on the planet with ring. DNA, learn more about how ring DNA helps remote teams at ring DNA, dot com slash remote work. That's ring DNA, dot com slash remote work and. Sort of wondering too is is obviously you have ton of employees have been affected by this. All the food service workers, and so on all arenas that are closed that. you know games aren't going on and just SORTA this multiplier effect. It seemed like an business that that your sales team would be. Perhaps more than a mini companies are acutely aware of just how. The their efforts benefit their fellow employees by selling something that can put people were. Yeah No. That that momentum is starting to pick up. There is a sense of duty to our company. We on the frontlines of sales have an opportunity to change the lives of hundreds of thousands of people right now, which is why when we started talking about marketing and spend. When the visceral reactions came acid Woah will realize what we're trying to do here. We have an opportunity. There are the numbers of people online including our buyers. Have doubled over the last month. You think about all the Internet. Traffic now There's two things that are really interesting that our current Internet traffic is way up people on our site more than ever. But that's just a general. It's everywhere K. secondly people aren't at home, and they're more open. Because of the spirit of spirit of unity were all in this together. They're more open to taking your call the taking your linked into taking your invite so so an inside sales rep on my team sending a note that says so sorry. We're here to help. When you're ready is getting way more exposure in reaction than it ever did before, so it's really interesting, so so when we think about pushing our marketing sales efforts right now. We. We do were starting to feel this sense of duty, because because of the people that have been affected. You GotTa thank our stadiums. We cover thousands of stadiums and. Ninety seven percent of stadiums. Stopped within three weeks of each other. Around the Globe and it was you've never I mean Hoping never see this something like this again never saw of never seen it. No close. A lot of those frontline employs unfortunately have been impacted now. We created first thing we did, is we? Cut Back Expenses. All the management layer around the globe clean myself took a took a decent cut on our pay we donated. and We created based on our board of directors. Also, we created a thirty million dollar fund to. Have those to give employees that lifeline for as long as we can, and and that's now ourselves team to start bringing back bringing back some of these orders these projects. And we're seeing that you know what's interesting. Some places like our corporate service segment. Tweet we divide our business into segments, but MSRB segment. There's not been a real slowdown. People WanNA talk. They WANNA. Talk about these projects. Now of course, our sports and leisure like our stadiums. That's that's. That's a major major hold airports. I imagine right. Yeah airports have been on hold, but not but not indefinitely so they. They're having conversations with us about hey, when it comes back, how are we going to make sure we're clean? And so that's really interesting. Yeah, you think about this and it's. Just sort this fundamental need, and we talk about bringing the economy back, but but you Roy Donovan. It's what I hadn't really thought of it in this context is. Clean is, the Baseline Right we're talking about testing employees in and said let's go on, but you can't have the employs. Come back into environment. That's also not safe from that perspective. So imagine that probably. I can imagine a lot more companies thinking about this than they ever did before. Yeah, it's it's one of those then. That's why say is a company. You don't WanNa have to make this the number. One thing you worry about guess what you do you do now the number one thing you have to worry about as a company is. How are you going? Going to keep your employees safe because a non safe work, environment will lead to a lot of employ frustration from now on and and so they'll, it'll be a little bit of a curve right with so we'll peak out probably within the next year where employees companies are at odds with each other saying. Hey, you didn't keep me safe. I got sick. I came back. You told me to come back. I came back didn't more. Now families affected. We'll probably see my guess is. We'll see that pick within a year. And then it'll come, but then I'll kind of flat line. It won't come back down to the bottom, so companies are going to be left holding this bag of what I gotTA. Keep my employees safe I'm GONNA have to check in constantly with how they're doing. How are we going to do that? And that's not you WANNA companies number one focus to be on their. Their delivered to their clients. down. In their bottom line now now now I gotta be careful because employees. Our employees are what make a company. Okay, and so you want him to always focus on employees, and so I'm a student of Southwest Airlines. Herb Kelleher. Met. Him studied a lot. More expense sold lot south west have been on their camp slot so number one selects We are dedicated to employees because employees are what. Give the output. Customers reaction in interaction with you through an employee. But but you WANNA be able to focus your measures on those the employee's productivity side in. If you're caught up on all day long, we gotta worry about the safety. Then you you start to lose productivity anything. That's my point, so companies want to deal with that and but they're going to have to. So what what do they do? Really interesting I think there's this level of you know in all sales. which, really interesting you start, you start to peel back. Why did someone by and why did someone leave? And I find this I. Find these studies Super Fascinated. Right? It's it's really as you say. Why did some by? We have QBR's with each other at the end of quarter. We all get together and sales by bought. When we ask the question, why did you leave? It's actually a little bit different of a story so when you ask someone why they widely why they purchased you. It's usually because I'm just pull up our studies for example. So I'd say why. Why did we choose to Axelle? People perceived outcome and they had a really good experience with our sales people. Price was only the issue may be eight percent of the time, so you see this kind of constantly happen. When you ask the question, so, why did you choose the buying experience? The buying experience number one and number two. is they perceived outcome? Then you ask the question, so why did you leave when when it's time for them Jill leave? And it's basically it goes something like this. You didn't deliver. On on what we expected. So think about the sinking about the tooth to differences there one. They perched you through buying experience that showed them an outcome. A perceived would happen now when they left, they literally left because you did deliver on that outcome. So, what does that say about selling? It says the upfront. We have to build a process of trust. We have to be accurate about what we're going to deliver setting expectations appropriately, but sending accurate expectations Bryant right sitting accurate expectations. That's probably one of the hardest things to do in this new environment. How for example for us? We're going to set an expectation around safety. But we may not get every piece right. So how do how do we then manage this along the way? We're trying to predict our we're trying to. A little bit shooting at a moving target. I. Think a lot of companies are in. Go through this where. Celine is this motion of building trust creating expectations upfront? that. The company can perceive an outcome that will happen. We're going to help. Deliver X amount. Save you some money I'm going to save you time I'm going to give back. You know I'm GONNA deliver more of a safety protocol. We're GONNA, reduce your number of. Email security email issues. Whatever the promise is in sales I'M GONNA. Give you a better experience is going to be a better car. We set up the sector station I think. Kobe is going to change the way we have to manage that. So what it means is. We're going to have to be much more hands on during in the middle of the process. To say to someone, Hey, by the way, here's some things we need will need Anita. Schedule this meeting. It's imperative that I get all four buyers. I'll six years. On, this call, we need to talk about what's changed since I last, told you what the outcome was going to be, and then when we and then when they closed the deal. Your client success team is going to be just critical to manage expectations. Hey, what we thought six months ago. It's not the same anymore. Well I think that's one of the really critical things. Especially in the field urine is that. If. You're some number of of buyers who? Are Brand new to this right and they don't really. Know what to expect, but also I think given how the situation so fluid. You could scope out a project and say this is what we're delivering deliver. We're very clear about what expectations are. But the environment changes around it. Now, it's exactly and that's where we're going to have to be principal. This companies is sales teams. To be really clear and what we can, and can't deliver and be really clear about what can change. See The thing I love about South West in my favorite story about herb. Kelleher, his. Is when somebody called the complain. And said I the experience was it was really rough on the plane compared to compared another. This person compared to another airline. Your snack services were terrible. The options were pretty limited. I didn't like the assigned seats. In our Keller rather rather than say great, we'll look into how we can accommodate your needs. Basically, the reply back was maybe we're not the right airline trio. Exactly, yes. We are principles around how we go to market. This is how we we go to market this way so that you can enjoy a really excellent staff which I hope. They were good this when he says I hope they turns out they were. Better. Great pilots and A DECENT AIRFARE But we're principle that what we do and. Imagine, they entered the market when continental and all these companies were just laugh at them. They were in means about how to expand. Services in their lounge and had a you know up. Up Their uniforms and it just sort of all these. Random services that that. Are Keller, said well I don't know the customer cares about this so question for around this this is so, what are you having finding you're thinking about? Maybe start this process already about. Planning! Relative! Welcome! How do we? How do we? Educate our sellers to be more careful about how we set. Expectations appropriately sized deals. I think even to some degree you know. Perhaps you've sunk as most are a little bit smaller. Deal right just to make sure you can manage expectations appropriately. How are you teaching them about what expectations could be? A great point well I started with the management layer, so we believe in in a core principle that is just just just critical for all companies to get in. That is if you if you look at the data that says. Now go to employees wedding employee. Leave right. Manager Right, the data has not changed since Gallup. have been tracking this for fifty years. and. That is when someone says what percent of my? It's interesting. When you ask, boss is an you. Ask Her say what percentage of your team is perform at the highest level. They say twenty percent, and then you ask the employees. What is the number one thing that will help me perform better. It's and they say their boss. She had this massive disparity between the manager thinks on twenty percent or team get it and the employees think that the boss isn't. Helping them then that's the number one reason. They gave his boss so We're starting with our management layer to say listen. We've gotTA help reset expectations. You've got to be empathetic manager. You have to get in. You have to win. We're asking Oliver Manders. Check in with your teams daily daily. scrums are starting to happen. And during this were sense now we're starting to get the feedback from the ground up. Teams are saying well actually. I don't think can deliver on this. Hour having open and honest and real conversations that feedback has then our next move is to go back to the product and delivery teams and so k. Urgent need to rethink. Here's the feedback from the frontlines need to rethink this product or this offer this delivery. Both because, at the end of the day. Your product is what what expands Tam your total addressable market. Your products is also at dictates whether seller can can or can't say something, so see you need to get to the point where the product and the product teams and the sales teams are so aligned during this time. Here's what we can deliver. Here's what we can't deliver. Because that expectation. That's where the expectation. Goes Awry and so we're. We're doing that. I think the other thing though is just is just. Back to this point of empathy. Sitting Down with your sellers helping them understand. What they're what the moves! They can make a lot of caution right now. I don't I don't think I can call I. Don't think you can reach out now you can. There are things you can do right now. that set the tone with the by that. Let them know that you're there available and and so it's it does happen to be a lot of one on one. Apart from that i. mean the normal things you'd expect were having a lot of webinars. We call cells club circuit all the sellers around the globe on sales. Club call. been hosting those every other week now and what have been sort of the key themes of those? Yeah, it's interesting. The first. The first couple sales club calls were hanging there. We got this. We're all in this together. Like a lot of companies in the next call was. Hey, we're GONNA. Organ start going out. More going out to market and that's when we started getting reaction of. What do you mean we're going out? So then the next off to that was very specific tactics. Here things you can say. Here's a message. We had our chief. Growth Officer named Sylvia. She's amazing, woman she. She put out. The the new messaging? And I love this because that's an Exa were we were so used to. To. Going through brand studies that would take a year will here's how we're GONNA say it again in overnight. These meetings are occurring. Always say what's your new messaging oats? This great and Giving the stamp of approval so within you know within two weeks this the message or taken out to clients that's hidden marketing and sales altogether once and we're starting to change that immediately. So so she put that out. It was very tactical. Call number. Three of what are the things you can say? We started. On on on the Webinar number three, we started giving a lot of hope. We started telling stories of where we had hope. Stories of our frontlines stories of we still had we had a deal. Close a great deal that actually came through my team. My inside sales team. Last week. You know two million dollar deal and that that gives out so. We started talking about okay. You can do this, and that's when interestingly and SA people reaching out to me directly, saying Hey Ryan. That was great. I didn't know we could do that. And Use and now you see people's ears kind of perk up and. They're saying. Wow. This is May, there is more good here. Yeah I. Think it's it's you touched on earlier and I think it's it's The right message which is. Yeah we're. We're here when you're ready. But meantime worrying, be letting. You know what we're doing things that we think could be important to you. ways we could help now. And and that's fine. I think that that the flip side of what many companies are trying to do earliest. They think they're hurting. People do is just. Yet things are haven't really changed. Just people working from home now? And, it's like no. That's not the case. Just 'cause, they change locations doesn't mean everything else. The same everything has changed as a result of that. And if there unmindful that the not messaging that the right way? Yellow box themselves in in a bad way. Another way I think about this. Andy, if I can just share shirt help that might be helped for some of the listeners when we think of growth and in this case when we think of getting back on track. I've come to the conclusion. This is Ryan, bots, opinion, but I've come to the conclusion. Is it as a sales leader? They're only three things you can impact and one of them. You can only impact tangentially so what I mean by. That is in the three three PS. So it's product pipeline and it's. Says Product Pipeline and productivity. And so product is basically is what you offer that's that's what establishes that trust that dictates your Tam. So how big is the total addressable market? is totally dictated by the by the by product in the offer. Pipeline we can impact. We don't have to wait. And sit back. We can actually get pipeline now, and you can change your messaging into a message of help. You Change Your message. You can be very acute on the prospects you're going after. And then productivity is being able to you know. Move the needle. closes thirty percent, and I can get her to close at thirty five percent now I've moved the needle, so those are the three dials that were constantly plane with sales leaders I gotta go back to prior teams and give them feedback on what this does doesn't do, and how it can expand the offer to I need to get my teams to develop pipeline tree. I can dial I can. I can dial up phthalate productivity We need to be thinking about all three right now, so our products GonNa Change based on these times the pipeline we can impact, but actually put more efforts in the pipeline. And then productivity got. You've never had a time in the world where? Because prospects have put. Some of their orders on hold, sit down and get your team so trained, so Dan around crm so dialed in around. You know the sales process and deal flow negotiation and we. We're doing this nonstop. Replacing with our sellers were reviewing crm tactics were cleaning the data so also productivity can move from say thirty percent close ratio to a thirty eight percents I mean that makes it world of difference. If you can move that up. Yeah, and it's surprising. I talk about this often on this part is how few. Sales. Leaders are really focused on that. Yeah so often now in an software particular go. Yeah we close twenty percent, so we just need to expand the pipe. It's like well. Wouldn't it be easier to move that up to twenty five and then work and gained thirty. That mindset hasn't taken hold, so it's encouraging to hear you talk about that because that's that's the way to do it, I mean. Can you imagine if you can impact all three I? Mean this is the Nirvana I think about this. I want to know what I do. What I lay awake late at night. Any I'm thinking about this the three peat. Can you imagine if you can get your product to expand and have a bigger team? You got more pipeline more effective pipeline it really truly acute account based marketing pipeline, and then your productivity went up. I mean you got all three to to move same time man, you're talking about changing from man. You could be doing a on a ten million dollar start-up that moves you a sixty million dollars up. You get those three functioning deaf Berkeley quickly. You could be us. She'd be a twenty three billion dollar company with you know A to. A two two to three billion dollars in new business growth number year, which is what's that's the net on my head and a-. And yet if we yeah, exactly right just in Merrick. Two Billion Ryan, that's already made man up. Make it happen. Yeah now let's that's impressive. Well. It's good well Ryan. Thank you so much for joining us. People want to connect with you work in the do that. Lincoln's vast. All Right Orion thank you very much and look for talking to soon. Thanks Andy, keep up great work dotty later. Okay friends that's it for the various special episode first of all, thank you for taking the time to listen so grateful for his support of the show and I wanNA. Thank Ryan bought for sharing his insights with us today. If you enjoyed this conversation, please subscribe to this podcast series selling with purpose on itunes. spotify, or wherever you listen to podcasts. If you could also leave us rating review, unless know how you enjoyed this, we'd really appreciate it. You can do all this on your phone in less than a minute. As soon as this podcast is over, so thank you for your help. And thank you so much for listening. Be Sure to join me next time I. Episode Seminar Eighty Nine of sales enablement with my guest Alzheimer. Until then I'm your host Andy Ball. Good, selling, everyone. Ring DNA is the leading sales enablement platform that uses a I to help scale business growth. Trusted by the top companies across the globe ringed ebay offers a suite of powerful tools for every sales role. During the dialer radically improved sales, productivity and call connection rates while guided selling helps reps know exactly what to do and when to do it. Conversation I uses artificial intelligence to surface the most impactful coaching opportunities in real time. So no matter where your team is working from the ring DNA platform can help them. Exponentially increased call connections, opportunities and Revenue Learn more at ring DNA dot com slash platform. That's ringed ebay dot com slash platform.

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Rokus 8% jump, Rent The Runways new mega (co-working) store, and TripAdvisors experiences bet

Snacks Daily

15:51 min | 1 year ago

Rokus 8% jump, Rent The Runways new mega (co-working) store, and TripAdvisors experiences bet

"The. Visit this is this is next daily. It's Thursday may ninth. And this is the best next daily. What do you think? Well, fast one yet third down day in a row so good for markets. Next feeling no markets were freaking out again about the trade talks. They start tomorrow in DC big one Chinese officials. American officials everyone arrived, let's shake it our reading at the airport. Someone's getting rose we'll see a half. Now. Three fantastic stories found really COMEX first one is trip advisor, it's experienced booking division, really fast. But it's trapped inside a non growing company growth company trapped inside shrinking seems like a nice Disney movie. Second story is Roku. This is the tiny baby little streaming company. It's doorbell. It shares jumped eight percent very adorable because of one key real estate now owns it is all about your living room third and final stories rent the runway. This is no longer just a subscription apper website for gallons. Got a new look new Mako. It's going physical. It's a retail story. But it's. More than just a store. It is a big retail store literally. And it wants to be part of your day daily day. So trip advisor Roku rent the runway before we hit those three great stories. I got a little history lesson here. Yeah. Let's talk about hybrid leisure wet hen we please. It's a little too long new fashioned department you and I just joined that category. I think we should run with. Let's give you the history. It started with snug that was legendary because that was like TV commercial. Yes, it's down comforter slash panchayat. Then twenty seventeen you had an evolution in hybrid leisure athlete. The romp him very true, which is a man version of the ramp her which is pants lashed shirt built into one for him. And then third now for the first time ever we're seeing what's going to be the hybrid leisure tire of summer twenty nineteen. It's called the beach blazer the perfect marriage of towel and suit. This thing is like a suit that is freakishly absorbent. It's like a smoking jacket, but it's thick cotton and can absorb while you wearing on the beach. It can absorb all the water. He's bill. Absorbs a lot of Rosa. So if you wanna look like JAMES BOND on montoc don't wanna have to actually wear something that your dry could going to kill you should check out this three hundred twenty five dollars each blazer. So we looked at this thing my shoes the price exact that's really expensive. We know. This thing's going to get a little sloppy considering Memorial Day weekend coming out, I think somebody could make a one and done version. I think there's someone on Alibaba right now thinking two steps ahead of us. Twenty dollar version of the beach blazer will just be for the rockstar Instagram party animal, and then you throw it away and the cranberry juice never comes off. No one knows any better. It'll have a moment just like around him last year. Now before you end up ordering one. Let's listen to these. Daily. Hamre food is candy. They don't reflect the views of robinhood family. Just so. Securities. It's not a research report or investment advice. Natta auto security, next digestible business. Vigil financial LLC member famous less PC. I story Tripadvisor stock just fell eleven percent because only one part of its entire businesses growing one small part of its division is grow. And it's the part that's based in Nita, Massachusetts. I guess it all is based the whole companies based in Needham, which is classic wash the many suburbs of Boston. We all like have that friend from Boston where you're from just outside of Boston. Newton needham. Rivera Waltham, dad, west and Newton Wellesley. We're kinda ripping off. Opposite set buyers hit on. I don't even know we're doing it. That's great. He can't sue us. So Tripadvisor is basically the yelp for travel yelp. Just does restaurants Tripadvisor does everything you do on vacation with stock peaked in two thousand fourteen it was great things. And then it basically the stock turned into one of those family vacations where everything Bellavia -cation from health since two thousand fourteen it's been five years of stock decline revenue was flat last quarter. And that's what they announced yesterday trip advisor said our first quarter, revenues were flat. But we're still profitable. And we'll give them credit for that. Because not all tech companies are profits. So we jumped into the earnings report here classics next out, and we noticed some things that were a little different about the numbers. The company has a beautiful earnings slide deck be I mean, you open the thing I feel like I'm on a honeymoon. They went the extra mile. I shows the offi co they had like roses as we entered the room spritz, the place, it kind of smelled. It didn't really, but we kind of felt that. So the first thing we see on this lie deck is that revenue growth is fourteen percent that good sounds great. Exclamation point. The fine print. I would that is the average growth rate from two thousand eight to two thousand eight so we're not talking about just over the last year. They're talking about the last decade. We told you growth was really good until two thousand fourteen that's been a trip from hell. It's like when you book that hotel and find out they were the hotel the year in the nineteenth century nukes. Been disappointed by some hotels. We had some issues getting up some moon. We don't have time then hotel booking bragged that profits in the hotel booking division were up. Thirty six percent, again, really big number thirty six that the top line number the actual sales. They add in hotels, revenues was flat. Again, kind of one of those situations where you get to the room in that hot tub, you're expecting their trip advisor went to great lengths to spruce up its earnings report and highlight the best we're talking like when the cows or folded took like a swan on the bed, but the underlying parts of that revenue was flat and profitability is not grown fast. So Jack, what's the takeaway for buddies over Tripadvisor trip advisor needs to? Invest in the one thing that's growing. And if you're not growing your dying classic old Wall Street for his crew. You can't just let your company declined push money into that one group now one keeping they're doing is. They're breaking down how their businesses doing by different business lines and have highlighted the one group that's doing really well now that one division. It's experience experiences classic millennial when you can book tour like a boat cruise around Manhattan or activities, romantic Yukon, or restaurants, almost wooed. The Lennon's are liking experiences. This is the one division trip advisor is doing well. And if we look back on it check, I gotta tell ya. I don't know if I did this. I clicked to see what we could have done for your bachelor party two weeks ago and key west. Yeah, we didn't look into this second guessing are Tiffany's could have been ghost tours all weekend, we visited the oldest house on the island. I sweat into that agenda for days, we could have done it goes to share. The excel she trip advisor needs to keep doing that. For a second story, Roku shares eight percent, basically because what are the foes just loving the whole cord cutting world professed his love on this kind of thing was like outside with a boombox saying cord cutting come out a John cusak. Totally. So if you don't know Roku, you need to know Roka, it's the little cousin of Netflix. This is perfect. Like literally is kind of like a little doesn't have as many trophies net flex not as rich moms tears. It's arm isn't as good as Netflix literally lives in the old Bill. That Netflix too. I love that. They're like channeling the next let's valley. Now, this is basically the other way to put it Roku dungle that you'd stick in your TV, and it makes money three ways as the first hardware does dungle you Jack that little thing into your TV, and you can stream internet stuff thousand what else. How smart TV tax a lot of the smart TV's? You buy today. They're built in with Roku techniques. So it sells the hardware. That's one way. It makes money. The second way is through at it has a Roku channel where you can watch free movies TV shows with ads and then the third way makes money is subscription kinda similar to the app store on your iphone. You can download HBO go for your Roku or net flicks. If you pay for it through Roku, it'll take a little cut. So it's basically a platform for accessing all this exactly like apple TV, actually. And it's Donal. It announce his first quarter revenues yesterday revenues jumped by fifty one percent. And here's the other big number twenty nine million. People are active Roku users that means twenty nine million televisions in twenty nine million households and that's up forty percent from the same period last. And that's why the stock jumped by eight percent. So, but this is what fascinated us today. Next daily was the CFO at his very particular take on the competition. I already told you that apple TV kind of does the same thing as Roko pretty much sodas the Amazon fire stick sodas Google Chrome cast. So where does it sit in this dungle world? Well, it's much smaller. It's a tiny little guy. But you might make a mistake and think that Disney which just announced Disney, plus is also a Roku competitor, right Disney. Plus being the new Disney streaming exactly, but that would be wrong zero actually said he loves that Disney is getting industry Ming exactly because it's just going to create more cord cutters, and the more people get with court, cutting the more likely they're gonna. Need a CFO said when they win we win. And that's why shareholders are so excited. So more business for Roku when there's more court cutting out, so Jack what's the takeaway for our buddies? Over Roku owns the most valuable real estate. There is the living room the living room TV's are still where most Americans are spending a disturbingly large amount of their time. We're gonna get more updated data with the new census. They hit us with some numbers or any average American over eighteen spent four hours and ten minutes in front of the TV in two thousand eighteen fifteen minutes. Listen snacks daily. And then the other four hours. That's what you're doing four hours a day in front of the TV and only a few companies are delivering content through the TV cable is one and Roku, the exactly and the more people who cut the cord, the more Roku steals marketshare from cable, what Odongo since we covered Roku. I gotta let you now I own Roku stock for third and final story, Jack, can you can use it me up over here will always be that rent. The runway is going to keep its epic year going. With a giant sand Francisco transformative store back back back. I gotcha. San Francisco store for rent the runway. This is happening. I remember at the runway as an apse lash website where you can go to prom or go to a wedding in an basically address that you can't afford, and you can look gorgeous, like seventy bucks a seven hundred dollar dress where it one night. That's what the story has been for like the last decade the company's been around. It was horrified. Dry cleaner. Okay. Where you can basically steal other people's clothes. You wear you wear one to give it back. They clean it. They give it to someone else. And basically been a huge year for this company because it started to volved from well, hit a one billion dollar valuation. You money as expanded into furniture rentals with west down, right which they've got officially launched yet. But I can't wait until Jack's got like this mid century modern vibe going living room that he will not stop telling me about. And then I'm impressed by the user number eleven million users, and it's transformed from one off dress wearing to a subscription based Netflix. For Ganz eighty nine dollars a month to get to wear four items. Whatever you right, and they've got a bunch of these subscription options. Now, so you can kinda like pick your own fantasy situates you get to Jack up your wardrobe for eighty nine bucks a month. Now, this was online only until a couple years ago. They started adding these small stores around the country on the coasts, including Chicago, which is the mid coast a lake is still a body of water. Now, let's get to this fifth story. What's the strategy with the fifth stole? So this is big because the fifth rent the runway location is located in San Francisco, and it is using the starbuck strategy, which is of course, being your third place and third place coined by Starbucks, founder Howard show. It's not home not work that place, you go in between, right and Starbucks makes it your third place by giving your free wifi and free bathrooms anytime. Well, rent the runway kicking up an with it's like mega store situation. First of all rent, the one way offers eight thousand options of clothes and jewelry. That's how many items are in its claws eight thousand but this individual store a single store is. Going to offer three thousand so like over a third of these clothes at giant wardrobe. It's insane. It's a whole legitimate nightmare closet for the city of San Fran basically can steal stuff from now that three thousand is going to be curated every day. So let's say the weather in San Francisco is shocker a little rainy. You get some trenchcoats. They're gonna start changing what's available every single day. You get those rubber boots love those. Now, they also have optimize. It's like they got twenty fitting rooms that can double to forty at peak times because no one like sharing that fitting room, but to make it a third place that you like to actually hang out at they have blue lane coffee carts, which nice six bucks per Cup. Everybody. Who's wondering beauty Barnes. They've beautiful green, succulent killers everywhere. The seconds like in the closing. And they're also making this a co working space. Yes. This is a big move because the big women's focus co working space the wing just entered San Francisco now, they got a competitive from rent the runway. Now, naturally, this is a billion dollar unicorn it's going to be tech up. So you can check out with your app. There's no line. You have to go. Through you just walk in. So they want you to go to this rent the runway store after work on a daily basis before your day, hang out with friends and get a few emails done and like put on a new top of actually go to that date and return it in the morning. Exactly. It's going to be superman Louis, no lines middle. So jack. What's the takeaway? Our buddies over rental rent runway knows its customer, and it continues to get to know the got into know how the customer has evolved because back in the day rent. The runway was all about those one to two special Kate exactly from in the winning like magic. And now it's customers sometimes want to rent up to one hundred twenty days out of the year. That's incredible. Also, its customers have grown up ninety percent of them are working professional women. They're not just college students anymore. That means working people. They wanna be able to actually get some work done and shop at the same time. You can't do that most places Nita third place and that third place is the new renter on bishops business plan. Jack whip the takeaways force. Gladly trip adviser is. Investing. What's growing, which is experience booking bachelor party ghost Qiwei, Roku? It owns the most valuable real estate in economics, which is the living room cable verse Roku, the down go. I like that showdown. Third and final story rent the runway. It's growing up just like its customers giving you a third place where the coffee cost as much as you spent dinner. Exactly now time for our snack fact today this one sent in by a great snacker. We actually had a great number of submissions from this guy. Yeah. I suppose from Arizona hasn't told us if we don't know if you're married, we're just doing a guessing game Scott for era traits. Nak tells us that Southwest Airlines was the first airline to serve Dr Pepper onboard. Because the founders Lashio herb Kelleher was obsessed. I love these fax as where the reason giant corporate decision was made with millions of dollars on the line just personal preferences from the top. It's great. Banning facial hair on the Yankees. We're just a little more controversial sharp move. Now. Couple other fantastic stories, you gotta know recovering the Robin Hood snacks newsletter. Disney just announce its earnings avengers aren't included in them. But nobody down for him. And then WalMart decided to up the age, which it will sell tobacco products to twenty one eighteen voluntarily big move. I liked snacker. It was great as always potting with you today. Can't wait for tomorrow. The robinhood snacks podcast. You just heard reflects the opinions of only the host who are associated persons of robinhood, financial LLC and does not reflect the views of robinhood markets Inc. Or any of its subsidiaries or affiliates, the podcast for informational purposes, only and is not intended to serve as a recommendation to buy or sell any security and is not an offer sale of security. The podcast is also not a research report and is not intended to serve as the basis of any investment decision. Robinhood, financial LLC, member FINRA SIPC.

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AP Headline News Jan 28 2019 13:00 (EST)

AP Radio News

03:15 min | 1 year ago

AP Headline News Jan 28 2019 13:00 (EST)

"Stacy's asia. After years of enroll dope within an inch of my life. I'm free receipts of a mind of their own go, paperless and manager travel expenses online with my taxi business, make the smarter choice of my taxi dot com. AP radio news. I'm Ed Donahue, mother nature is coming down hard on the midwest in cities like Chicago, while the snow may be ending the cold is just starting. That is mayor Rahm Emanuel. It's snowing and it's very cold. The AP's David Eggert in Lansing. Michigan reports state government. There is taking a snow day. It is rare for Michigan state government to close down due to weather. It's happened as best as I can tell only four or five times in the past decade. They're usually pretty hesitant to close down due to the number of services, they provide their also blizzard like conditions in parts of Minnesota and Wisconsin at least three people have been killed in Havana, Cuba, by a tornado President Trump tells the Wall Street Journal, he sees a less than fifty fifty chance of an agreement to prevent another government shutdown. They fifteenth is the deadline now deputy White House press secretary Mercedes slaps says scheduled talks or a good start. The mere fact that we have these countries coming. Together on Wednesday and seriously looking at resources and seriously having a discussion about border security and wanting to find a solution and a legislative fix is a step in the right direction. President Trump is telling European allies not to try to evade Iran. Sanctions. Germany's foreign minister says the European Union is on the verge of setting up a payments channel that would sidestep the Iran sanctions Washington imposed when it withdrew from the six party Iran nuclear deal last year. A senior administration official told the the US will enforce it. Sanctions Arkansas Republican Senator Tom cotton says the Europeans will have to choose whether they want to trade with Iran or the United States. Iran has been in compliance with the agreement, but the president has been sharply critical of the deal complaining, it doesn't address Tehran's ballistic missile program or its support for regional militant groups. I'm Warren Levinson, the number of dead from a mind dam collapse in Brazil is risen to sixty two hundred ninety two people missing. Nobody was recovered alive yesterday. This is AP radio news. Pope John Paul Djapo Francis is discussing the issue of celibacy by priests who focuses its ruling out any lifting of the celibacy requirement for priests but says there's reason to consider deigning old up married men in remote communities where presold ensure supply from told reporters on the way back to Rome on Sunday that he believes priestly celibacy is a gift for the Catholic church an opposes a blanket change to make it optional. But he said pasta necessity might justify alternative options in certain parts of the world. I'm Charleston with asthma. James Parker has died. He succeeded. Herb Kelleher as the CEO of Southwest Airlines. And he led the air carrier through the aftermath of the September two thousand one terror attacks Parker down surprisingly in July of two thousand four and was replaced by Gary Kelly who is now. The CEO southwest is. James Parker died unexpectedly over the weekend. He was seventy two. I'm Ed Donahue, AP radio news. For over nine decades. Craftsmen tools have been found in toolboxes in garages across the country. After all these years. They finally found their way home to loads trust it in the hands of fixers doers and weekend. Warriors. You can be sure you can trust them in your hands to find an ever-growing selection of craftsman mechanic's empower tools, tool storage and more in store and online at Lowe's dot com. So whatever tool your job demands lows has just the tool for it lows. The new home of craftsmen.

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259- Jim McKelvey and The Innovation Stack

Invested: The Rule #1 Podcast

00:00 sec | 7 months ago

259- Jim McKelvey and The Innovation Stack

"Everybody this is still town and Daniel town through the investment podcast where we are trying to figure out how to invest like Warren Buffett. And Charlie Munger and get rich. I mean basically. That's the ballpark and Danielle is tall learning learning from me for the last five years. Now something like that. Something how God. I am just deep into Warren Buffett territory and have been trying to follow Warren for. I don't know thirty five years or so and it's a it's an investing process that is just simple and like anything else. Simple isn't necessarily easy so we're unfolded here. And today we have a special guest. I do believe we are so fortunate to have a guest today. We love having people on our show who can add to our view of investing and are investing practice and really see it from a different perspective. So I'll start by saying that in two thousand nine a Saint Louis glassblowing artists and recovering computer. Scientists named Joe Mckelvey lost a sale because he couldn't accept American Express cards. I remember those days frustrated by the high costs and the difficulty of accepting those credit cards. Mckelvey joined his friend. Jack Dorsey the CO founder of twitter to launch square a startup that would enable small merchants to accept credit card payments on their mobile phones in his new book. The innovation stack he recounts the startups against the odds. Survival of a direct attack from the most dangerous company on the planet and one of our favorites Amazon and reveals the business strategy that made square impenetrable. Which is what he calls. The Innovation Stack Jim. Thank you so much for being here and talking about innovation with us today they said Oh. This is going to be fun so I loved your book both Adn I loved her book and the story. That stuck out the most to me is maybe your favorite one. Which is I want to ask you about it right away. You said that you couldn't find a living mentor in Innovation. And what I want to hear about is the mentor. You did find who was the person who founded the Bank of Italy and you ended up creating graphic novel about this story which is fantastic and I downloaded it and everybody should go and do that. Can you tell me the story of Your Mentor? That you found yes so I have been an entrepreneur for my whole life and by entrepreneur. I mean somebody who does something that doesn't have a template and so I've always wanted somebody to tell me what to do and after years of trying just finally gave up but then what happened. Was this As you mentioned square got attacked by Amazon and the odds of surviving Amazon attack. If you're a startup are basically zero. At least when we couldn't find any other companies that had survived but swear manage to and so that stepping on a quest for years to ask the question and answer the question why and the answer led me to a history because it turns out that history is full of examples of other startups. A doing things like square did and the patterns were a stark enough that I I decided to get very picky and look for another square but I was looking for another square. That wasn't using technology because the thing about studying trends is that the power of technologies specifically viral growth and network effects are so powerful the you can be completely incompetent in other words the those effects are they screw off the script measurements. So what I did was. I was looking for another financial services. Firm based in the United States founded by somebody who had no experience in the field up for the mission of expanding access. 'cause score was all about expanding access to small artists and people who WanNa take credit cards like I was And I found this produce vendor a hundred years older than me who got frustrated with the banking system in the early nineteen hundreds and decided to start a new bank and bank which was originally called. The Bank of Italy became the largest bank in the world. And did you think about how amazing that is? Okay so you've got this kid who drops out of school at age. Fifteen out of spite becomes a banker and doesn't know he's doing but ends up building. What you now think of is banking. I'm like if you think of banking today. You probably imagine a branch you can go to. You probably imagine being able to talk to somebody who speak your language. You probably imagine being able to take out a loan or you know. Have a checking account or savings account all of those things and as women particularly I was able to do. That was one of the things that stood out to me about the story. Women were not allowed to bank. They needed their husbands a permission and think about that so like the first bank that allowed women was Bank of Italy The the first bank did basically everything you think of. His banking was the Bank of Italy which then became the Bank of America which then became eventually the biggest bank in the world and the man who founded it a man in AP Giannini had done a remarkably similar numb remarkably large number of things that we had done at square. It the perils. Were just amazing so I decided to take him as my mentor. Even though he died twenty years before I was born one of the amazing things about you choosing him as a mentor and the Bank of America Bank of Italy story as kind of the precursor to square is. How it's you describe it as not being entrepreneurship and not being disruptive. Why do you not particularly like those words? So much which are fuzz innovation community. Yes we hear the word disruption all the time and I'm getting kind of tired of it because if you actually look at the data what companies like square do we do not disrupt industries. We create new industries. And it's fundamentally different. Now I can understand. You can come in there with a new invention. That sort of up ends in industry But the basic concept that a company is going to destroy. I think is wrong and I think it's the wrong focus. I would much rather have a company that is focused on building. Which is what squared it. We basically expanded the market. And if you look at the data we didn't run any of the other credit card companies out of business. We just built this own massive new area for ourselves and we're taking a little bit of business from them. I'm not saying it's it's it's totally not totally zero sum but generally we did not disrupt the other companies that I studied did not disrupt either. Yes he expanded the market as well by offering accounts and loans to all those people. You just mentioned. Yeah and this is sort of one of the things I look at when I'm looking for opportunity to make investments is. I'm asked myself a fundamental question. Which is is the company in question creating something new in which case they can own it using the techniques that I described in the book or are they trying to elbow their way into the crowded elevator with everybody else like anyone who these days all the but imagine back two weeks ago right when we could you know when you go into a crowded elevator and at that time you know a crowded elevator at least New York where I spent some time Nobody wants you to get in. You know the things cramp. They'll bill just don't make some room that's SORTA like business. Most businesses enter crowded markets with established competitors. And you know they all go their way into some room and you know if they're really aggressive with their elbows they got a lot of room But it still crowded elevator. What I was looking to study and what I try to put my money into our companies that are so ahead and so dominant that they are basically the only ones in the elevator. So why why is that so rare? I mean you have this idea that the skill set to do that isn't rare but the actual accomplishment of it is rare. What Phil Together. So the reason it is so rare is because copying is such a great idea. Okay so I'm a little bit. What are you guys trying to you? Start off the program. You're trying to copy Buffett and Munger Mark we strongly urge copying which is a guy who says that you know. Cloning is the great secret to good invest in all my knows what they're doing about buying gender bills for five bucks and you clone them absolutely absolutely and what you what you hit on is what we all hit on what we what we are born to do which is to copy things and we are born because we're successful cops if you're not a reasonably successful copy of your parent your debt and Danielle seems to be know. Just just just good options copy work right and the the way the universe functions generally is take something that works and copy okay. So when does that not work and the only time that really doesn't work is when we're confronted with a totally new set of problems when it's when the problem has not been solved before there's nothing to copy so so fill. Your question is excellent. Why aren't more companies doing this? Will the answer is in most cases and in most businesses copying is the strategy? That works the best. The only time I was able to find companies not copying was when there was this either problem that had never been solved before and they were attracting that problem or win. In the case of companies like Ikea or Southwest Airlines. For some strange reason the company was excluded from the market. So they couldn't get into the elevator. There was some there was some bar that That prevented them from from entering the market. So they had to do everything differently. So you know I. I was able to spend time with her. Keller who is the founder of South West and actually took on my book research to herb before I published. Actually before I wrote the thing I had on my research. I went to her because most of the studies that I'd done were historical studies and the great thing about history is that everyone's dead so nobody can argue with you. You know so you get the get the situation where you can make up whatever store you want and the people who would you know normally contradict. You aren't around so so I handle this historical data and I didn't WanNa make that mistake so I took her Keller and I said you know herb what do you think. And he first of all agreed with me and then pointed out a bunch of stuff that I'd forgotten or missed but the the act of doing was was really interesting because her told me about how southwest was just trying to be a normal airline they just wanted to set up some basic airs Air Service. They didn't want to dominate the skies. They didn't want to be like one of the top performing stocks of you know the decade from you know the early eighties to the mid nineties. That wasn't their goal. But they were prevented from copying so if you look as an investor and you look at South West and compare them to a different Come compare than normal airline southwest is doing twenty things differently you know and I go through this in the book in in great detail won't bore you with it here but like every step of the way from the way they boarded the planes to the type of planes they flew to the route. Stay slow was different. And they dominated the skies you know in an industry that buffet jokes about the airline industry being you know the worst destroyer capital of course. Of course he now owns a bunch of American I think but he owns a bit of South West Delta American united. I think he took a slice of everything. Yeah yeah well you know. He's a he's in a different level now and the airline industry has changed a lot. But it's an interesting world to imagine southwest dominating but this I mean to me. This is such an important thing for an investor to be thinking about what what allows a company to dominate like. Southwest has because here we are in this huge crisis for the airlines and And South West. I mean I don't know what your take on it as they look to be in the most stable position by far as compared to the other airlines out there as they're being disrupted by something right out of the blue is there and I think I got from the innovation stack that it wasn't so easy to just figure out what are the. What's the perfect list here that that I can give everyone to go out and innovate? I would love to know how to identify an innovative company. Where's the list so the problem right? Well so two questions are one is. How do you build it Which I don't have a checklist for but I have a process that I can describe. And the other question of which Danielle ask is sort of a better question for investors which is how do I recognize somebody who has built one so we'll take the first question which is how do you build it and the answer is essentially you have to be in a situation where you're prevented from copy. Okay so this is not. This is not a case of self discipline where you should go out and say well. I'm going to build an innovation stack and therefore I'm not going to copy all the stuff that everyone else knows worst. No Dude if it's working that's the thing you do what you need to do. Which is really uncomfortable is put your company into a market where there are no products where there is nothing and in the case of South West there was no cheap service in Texas. There were these From Texas International. Had these very expensive routes and southwest said. We're GONNA fly. You know our neighbors and friends around you know for nineteen bucks and that was unheard of. So they had to do everything differently when they were forced to innovate. So you you I. I've not found a situation where innovation is a first choice right. So so what is the first choice for choices to copy? Find something that works and copying down choice to make a decision. You'RE GONNA go go after this in the first place. Wha what am I trying to do and I'm trying to go after something like this that I decided. Okay I'm going to copy somebody. Why why am I doing that? Well I mean so so it comes. It comes down to the problem. You're trying to solve if you're trying to solve a problem and you care about the problem. Who Cares if the solution is original? Thought or a copy. Like if your focus is on the problem not on the process then the best solution is usually find somebody else. Who's done it and do what they did so her. Herb is trying to figure out how the problem is. People can't fly if they don't have a lot of money right basically and I'm going to solve that problem kind of how you see them going at it. Yeah Yeah so her we would he when he and the team South West did was they said well. We want to give low fares. So how do we do that? Well we're GONNA have to fly to cheaper airports or landing fees are lower and we're going to have to get more seats on the plane so we're going to dispense with this first class And and coach service. We're going to have one type of service on the plane and we're going to board our planes differently. We're going to board them in batches so that you don't have assigned seats. Us people on and off the planes faster. And we'RE GONNA turn our plants faster and we're only gonNA fly seven thirty sevens because that way a one of our flights gets disrupted you know the the crew can go to another plane whereas united. They've got fourteen different types of airplanes in every pilot has to have a separate type rating. I E you know two months of training every year on each plane well if you type rated on planes you're basically don't ever work so by it because you're constantly retraining. I mean it's it's that sort of stuff and all the stuff that southwest did was in service of this goal of making air travel affordable for the people so they didn't serve meals so they had a different reservation system so I mean again and again and again they did something differently. And what happened was these things interrelated with each other and created what I call an innovation stack which allowed southwest basically dominate the skies. Pretty much. Absolutely if you look at their stock performance during herbs turn during her tenure. The stock was just one way of straight up Once the new management took over an abandoned their low pricing strategy. They sort of lost that domination but It was a tremendous regina great investment thesis. So so so. Let's let's take Danielle's question which I thought was a great question which is how do you. How do you invest for this and I think as a public sector investor? It's difficult because by the time a company goes PA. Ah Blick the innovation stack is already pretty much baked so square's innovation stack was set within. I would say six or seven months maybe a year to really get everything fine tuned and after that it's been it's been sort of you know incremental refinement but then what we did was. We went out on the market Five years later. Now if you bought square at that you would've I don't know what the stock is right now but I mean you know it's a it's a fifty fifty three. Yeah okay. So it's a five x increase over the IP L. And it has been as high as a tax increase overripe. It's been done very very well. On and the innovation stack still protects us because we have not abandoned a lot of the elements that the preserve it. So if you see a company of doing something fundamentally different and you could not point to just one or two things but ten things that they do differently. That's a company you invest. That's the feature of the stack. Right is it's not just one thing it's not just two things. It's not just iterating doing something better than everybody else. It's really doing fifteen to twenty things completely differently. Yes and I think. That's what's so unique about this book and why this thing is its own world for entrepreneurs. I've never read a book like this That would lay out entrepreneurship in these sort of stark terms and And for me as an investor it lays out these different innovations stacks. That's what I love about it. Jim is you went you. You not only just took square stack. But you took the other three other stacks as well and laid out there because they're they have similarities and they have differences. Yeah nobody wants to read my memoir. I mean I'm I'm just a guy. Nobody cares about me. What they care about is the company I founded or CO founded. I should say but even then who cares right. It could be a lucky shot right. What I was interested in was a pattern and if there was a pattern then it's worth discussing and what I found was in fact there was a parent is just really rare. Like it's really really rare and so rare that you can go your whole life and never notice it and which is what I done because you know the like. I was fifty years old when I started writing this book. You know I've seen this pattern my whole life. It took me three years of solid research and I had a lot of resources at my disposal. Took me three years to figure out. What the hell was going on and that it wasn't just this accident and the only reason that happened was because I accidentally stumbled upon this in the creation of square and accidentally Had this epiphany when we survived the Amazon attack because when we drive the Amazon attack look when Amazon Copier Product. Undercut your price by thirty percent. Which is the number. They always undercut your price with you die. Yeah that is a one hundred percent accurate statement except in one company's case which is squares and having lived at square I had the additional insight that we didn't do anything differently so the amazing thing about squares response to Amazon was you would think. Oh we just you know got into our bunker and came up with a plan and execute at our plan brilliant. That wasn't what happened. We went into a bunker. Like what the heck are we do? Like what companies do when? They're attacked by Amazon. And the answer. Is they die like that was the answer? Just go ahead and pick out the tombstone and it was like well. Maybe instead of just dying. We'll just keep doing what we're doing and it worked like we didn't do anything differently. And and it's amazing that that strategy work and I was like what the Hell's behind this so I I happen to find this pattern and the do all this research and I was like. Oh my God. This wasn't an accident. It's just this really rare thing and this is that this protected you this. This is the stack the innovations thing. It's a stack. It's a bunch of different things that you do. Yeah it's it's it's twenty different. In scores cases it was fourteen different things. Southwest was twenty. It was Bank of America. Probably Twenty five different things you know. It's it's it's a completely different set of behaviors that are consistent so again. I don't want people to get the wrong impression about buying my book. There are no checklist in this book. Like if you buy this book. You're not going to go. Oh here's the Kelly's formula page eighty-seven well actually. I think I I do. Give away the secret of success in every other business which I will share with your listeners. Just copy what works success. You won't be successful. Just copy works like like you know. Listen to fill and Danielle help help you be a better copy of Bunger like that's that's great. That's that's that's the secrecy there. No checklist of this stuff is but it's a process. If you understand it you can recognize it if you recognize it again. I don't WANNA I don't WanNa Miss Lead your listeners. It's probably different. Investment thesis the Munger and Buffett had. Because I've I had met monitor but I've met. I've met Warren a couple of times and I deeply respect what they do but they are not typically in rapidly changing technologically unstable businesses. That have innovation. Stacks there's sort of Louis. They're sort of in after the stack has proven its worth and there's a moat and there's just curious are you saying that a business that's mature no longer has an innovation stack or it's so mature that other people have recognized it by this point so over time innovation stacks get copied unless companies behave in a very aggressive way and the aggressive way is to keep the price so low that nobody can ever touching so taking. Kia as the classic example. I can't came up with a phenomenal innovation stack which allowed them to diamond dominate furniture. Making including the Chinese who are the best copies copies in the world were unable to rip off like they gave up when the Chinese quit. You know. You're tough right and I- Kia has maintain that because they've held true to the pricing of values that I that I discussed. Which is this this idea that just because you can charge more doesn't mean you should And there's a specific way of pricing if you've got an innovation stack which you know it's not that part was actually hugely informative for people studying investing. I found to be really interesting to to just to know what way companies are thinking about pricing. In the way I would like them to be thinking about pricing. Thanks as I was writing that chapter. I was so worried that I was killing readers. Who would be listening to it as an book? And there's like Oh pricing theory Niagara Fall Asleep and five car pile up Actually I didn't actually write a business book like the book was originally graphic novel like the like you saw the comic that was chapter nine but like originally this whole thing was supposed to be a comic and one of the reasons. I didn't do that. Was Herb Kelleher. Who gave me probably one of the last interviews of his life. I was so jazzed about herbs interview that I thought. I'm going to do this as a graphic novel because I thought I thought hurt with love it and I thought it'd be Super Fun and you got to have fun with this stuff so I was going to be great so I started sketchy everything out and I sent it to her. And he's like I don't WanNa be portrayed as cartoon character he's like. Oh No herb. Did herb hated it? Oh no and he gave me this so cool. What her Kelleher told me. He said Jim when I was a boy comics. Were not serious. He says I know these days that you know the graphic novel is this thing he says. But I'm eighty five years old and I don't I don't feel right having you portray me and the stuff that we discussed which I consider very serious and important as a comic and I was devastated. I was like Oh my God you know this because herbs alleged and and he probably in being portrayed as a superhero so yeah I wanted to give them a Cape and everything I was I was really going to play it up. And she did not like that. And so I. I was distraught. I mean I put the book project down for like six months and then I finally picked it up and I started writing but I try to keep that comic book like tone to it because look allow these stories or fun but yet her her killed half the comics and then penguin by publisher kill the other half by explaining how many people listen to audio books these days and they're like look you're you're stupid comics are not gonNa make it audible so well. I will give a personal recommendation to everybody listening. Go to your Jim. Mckelvey Dot com right your website and download the graphic novel of the Genie Story. Because it's really fun and it's really well drawn and I highly enjoyed seeing. Yeah it's fun and it's free so just go get yourself a free comic on the bad ass banker and it's it's a real comic book like it's got totally superhero is a superhero. There's all this stuff expect comedy. There's there's there's a there's a murder there's a destruction of a major city. Yeah there's horses and gold bars Gear Place yes. I third and it's all true. That's all historically accurate. Yeah okay so I'm going to go back to investing now Jim. I'm looking at mature companies. These days I'm going to restrict my view to public companies. Only is there. Are there any innovators that you follow anyone leading companies these days that you think okay? That person really is doing it right And I trust them to innovate well and build their stack in the future. Or is there. I mean the people that you mentioned in the book are Either past or Yeah I wouldn't be buying stock right now Based on what? Genie did they made. There may be some other technical reasons for buying and frankly same with south west as you point out. I wouldn't buy southwest stock right now because they've abandoned a lot of the things that her Did exactly so is there. Anybody Watch and I key doesn't sell stock and neither the guys who make pure L. I mean I looked at that. I mean right. You sadly yeah. The fire is brought to you by nobody jumps to my what about what about square itself so I mean I don't WanNa plug my own stock. Because they're allowed to stock. It's okay I material. Non Public information about a square but I would just say one thing and that is a. We have not abandoned the principles discussed in the book. So I will get an serious trouble if I type on staff. The company is extraordinary. I have to say you have an extraordinary board. Really Unbelievable Board and And you're moving into bitcoin. A like like several were letting people move into it. Let's move into Bitcoin what we are the first Regulated entity by that public companies regulated debt that allows individuals to fairly trade bitcoin And it's look. I'm not suggesting it. I mean you can do it or you could not do it. That's that's up to you but But if you choose to were very safe and fair place to do it. And that's all the cash out and the cash. App is a phenomenal innovation. Stack that we built as a second so we have to innovation stacks at the company. One is the one driving the square ecosystem. That's the one that Jack and I put together the other one. We had Jack Anti all we did was sort of not kill the other one which was What's become cash? App and cash up. Is this spectacular? A tool for people sending money to other people and then investing and trading and doing other cool stuff. I mean it looks like it's triple digits. The rest of the company is going at a stunning rate by any normal normal metric but cash APP is off the chart. It's triple digits. Yeah so congratulations on that and then okay. You're not going to tell us what price to pay for this stock. I guess I'm completely unqualified for that. But you know what I say. More sure you there is my answer. Here's something I wanted to ask somebody at your level for so long. Warren Buffett has the idea and follow through on this idea with his own company at Berkshire that the one of the CEO's critical jobs for for as a CEO is to provide the shareholders of the company sufficient information every year that they can make a reasonable approximation of value of the business. That I should have if I'm an owner of Berkshire. I should be getting enough information from Warren according to Warren then I could figure out roughly what this businesses worth. That shouldn't be hidden away or tucked away. It shouldn't be shouldn't be manipulated. I don't contrast of Charlie Mongers Company daily turn on which counterpoint. But go ahead go. That is so true. The Daily Journal is brutal about hiding all their information so. I don't see any anybody but Warren actually out there doing that but man. What do you think about that idea? Just from as a board member What what do you guys feel as a board member of your responsibilities are to to the owners of the company or do you even see shareholders as the owners of the company. Well no we see our customers as owners of the company. We're not a shareholder first person or a group. I I'd say we're employees. I then customer then shareholder and you know scores in a unique position because Jack and I have controlling interests of the company. So we don't have to worry about some activists investor coming in getting all upset with us Not Putting shareholders I because of course Jack and are the largest shareholders and At least as far as votes go so So we're we're lucky I I want. I don't WANNA lose this thought but I love the idea that you guys are setting up. A kind of a stakeholder orientation we love we love John mackey and we we teach our students about stakeholder orientation is being critical and that we want people to effectively vote their values with their money and start putting their money where their mouths are rather than handing your money over to amoral bunch of of Investment Funds. Who ARE GOING TO PUT. Put your money into stuff you hate. And and hate how they act What do you think about that? Well Yeah I mean. I guess it's easy to agree with Phil and then it's hard to do. I think for me one of the most interesting things. All the damning information about Enron that eventually came out was released with Enron's filings. Like you look at the Enron filings there th- that they had to make an all that information all the shady stuff that they were doing was disclosed like there was no sort of discovery like Ha we busted these guys through some investigative journalism knows like reading. So it's it's it's possible to obfuscate terrible behavior and still technically comply with disclosure laws. So I believe that. There's a higher standard which is the Companies to the extent that they should interpret and share. What they're doing so right after the crisis last week uh UH square released a an insight into what we saw and gave numbers to the street and you know shared shared everything we could because look. We're all going through this crazy crisis right now. And I'm you know sitting in a in a study I've got a half inch thick layer of Purell on I'm I'm literally scared as everybody else about what's going to happen with the world and One of the great things that square has is a bunch of really good data so we share it and I think that's a good way to behave and I think that's sort of the spirit of the law. But the problem is when log has written than it gets written as these very legalistic mandates that you can interpret than you know. Kinda misinterpret and some companies do that but I think disclosures probably better. I think you guys are in general. I think your company and then I think you in particular writing about entrepreneurs who put passion and their values ahead of the bottom line right and and I don't see how that I don't see how that that's a bad thing I think. I think there's pretty good evidence out there that if you put these things ahead of the bottom line the bottom line could be bigger than you would have ever thought a bigger for longer. Absolutely I mean so look at We'll go back to south west. So herb essentially handed the reins to a new administration that had the lowest class in the industry like massively lore and such a value premium that customers were willing to pay way more and so the current administration at South West basically stepped in and said. Oh well we can look like heroes for the next decade by just slowly ramping up our prices which is what they did. And at a time when the rest of the industry was increasing at thirty at seventeen percent. Southwest Fares were increasing by thirty five percents. Alexander double the rate of increase and they eventually got to the point where they were on parody with carriers like America. You know and I didn't have the balls to ask her about that because I'm sitting in his office and I had that question but I'm not. I was so grateful to this legend to just tell me if my research was full of holes that I didn't want to offend him and I deeply regret that because I think he wanted to talk about that. I've got I've got tapes of the whole interview. We talked for three hours as I could tell what he was talking about. Spirit Airlines which was undercutting southwest on cost and price that he was done upset and I should`ve. I should've had the guts to do that and I didn't and I really. I really regret it but I'm not a reporter. I would just a guy trying to see if I should write a book but yet you can look like a hero by exploiting your cost advantage up until you give away the protective mode. And you have a dozen competitor's which southwest now does Matt. How do we get? Ceo's I I don't know if you've thought about this a great deal but how do we get to be people who are passionate and putting values out of the bottom line or putting you know employees and I'm putting the whole stack of of the stakeholders there to be thought about altogether not just sort of? Oh Yeah we're just GONNA crank up our next five years so I can walk away with twenty million dollars a year income and a big goodbye check And live happily ever after which seems to me what a lot of. Ceo's do they're almost like mercenaries out there in other parachuting in they come in. They do great things and then they're gone and the company just craters hate that for for investors who are looking long term. That's really destructive. Well so the process that gives you a CEO so you have vacancy or a future vacancy like you have a pending vacancy. We gotta get rid of this joker and Then you start looking and what do you do what you immediately fall back into copy? So what are you GONNA do? You'RE GONNA find somebody. Who's you know? Ceo Like and behave CEO like well. There's stereotype for that. And there's a handful of people who fit that stereotype at any one time and those people aren't stupid they're going to maximize their cop and revenue and so they're going to get a beautiful golden parachute as part of their. You know As part of their deal for even looking at your company so boards do that. Because it's true it's copying all over again you're copying copying its copying savvy so like if you want to take my sort of formula from the book on how to do it. Is you go down three levels in the organization and you find the person you know and you find somebody who's super passionate you give her the keys to the sweet. I love it. I love it but that word. The climbers but that takes real guts because the market may punish you for that. You get somebody who doesn't have a pedigree from the market And so what's the poor analyst? Thank who's WHO's sitting there saying well so and so's now the head of this public company and we don't know anything about her and we don't have a you know she didn't she didn't come up through the ranks so So we don't know how to evaluate this so we're GONNA WE'RE GONNA give it a negative rating because so I mean now would I do that at one of my companies absolutely would I also be tempted to follow the herd? Yeah like I would. I mean I'm as much as cheap as anybody else. And what's driving me nuts? Is that while you're while you're sitting there saying this. I recognize that yeah. The analysts would come out and they would hammer the company but part of me is just going okay. We'll so what so all the all. The morons don't understand the long term value. This business get out. The price goes down by fifty percent greater. Who Want to own this thing? We're going to jump in there and buy it great time. Why not do it? Because in the long run I think even the analysts in New York recognized that the market's going to price the company to its value. Eventually so if this person is adding value and the other person wouldn't the better long-term play is your three letdown person. They just can't evaluated. They're gonNA have to wait. They back off the stock but they but eventually. If you've got the right person that's far better for the company. That's that's absolutely correct. But you don't see internal promotions much Microsoft. Maybe notwithstanding google kind of notwithstanding but look at the I I kinda like those successes. Yeah Yeah but look at you like. Who's this guy you know? Yeah and Microsoft actually had quite a dip in. Its as to your point. How definite stock after the new CEO came on for a while until he started to prove himself and then it went off like crazy high so we all wish we bought that eighteen dollar Microsoft or exactly also was did most work and the other part of it is having a board of directors that are willing to take that risk on and having a strong board like that is also quite rare. And I wonder if you see any companies out there again. I'm GONNA ask again. Are there any companies out there that you look at that have a strong board or Were bent towards Making those kinds of riskier decisions that the the Wall Street may see as not quite as good short term. But you think are better long-term. Daddy I wish I had a better answer. That question because you asked should have an answer for that. It's okay if you don't I I would love to know if you don't see anything out there that's also well no. It's not that I don't see anything that investing in this where I have to become an expert. Really stresses me out so welcome. Sight Club. We'RE WE'RE I. Invest is in businesses that I know so well that it's obvious like I don't do like okay. So why do I invest in Microsoft? Well I look at the company. Okay and then all of a sudden I see that the VC's around Silicon Valley are constantly their start up to running into competition from Microsoft. This was back whenever we thought. Microsoft was run by a sweaty idiots. Yeah and the wait a second. No there's a new sheriff in town and so I- piled into that stock because they were beating my my fellow startups when a when established company starts doing that. You kind of go. Oh well sums happening here you know. That's a no brainer soda. I I look at these things and I only investment is just painfully obvious. But that's that's sort of research that you just described probably would be fruitful but I'm not in the I'm not in the. Us meant business. I I my my focus is elsewhere these days and I think you just gave incredible advice to people who who do have to invest on their own. I mean why own thing you don't understand what do you think what are you doing? I mean you're taking really. I mean we're not talking about people who are are rich people. We're talking about people who are trying to make enough money to have some kind of financial independence at some point in their life and doing it by putting your money into five hundred stocks on the S. and P. Five hundred is great. If you're making enough money and saving enough money and you've done it for your whole life. You could probably come out pretty good but if you haven't and you're behind the eight ball you have to do something different. And that's that's the big big challenge so one of the things that I talk about. A lot is appropriate levels of humility. And I think a lot of people are too humble. They discount their their gut and they get intimidated by people. Who say will you don't understand that? Therefore you need to pay me to be an expert mom and I run into that class of people all the time and they really. They really annoy me. Because like I'm not the smartest guy but if I can't understand something probably eighty percent of the time it's because somebody's trying to hide something from me as opposed to it's just beyond my comprehension so over time. I've I've learned that if I don't understand something I should probably stay away advice. And then on the flip side there's humility. Which is this idea that you should be open to the fact that you're probably not right. Allot and if you're able to be humble You're able to take in more information. And so you know being. I guess arrogant enough to say okay. I know this and these experts or supposed- experts don't and I'm going to ignore the advice of the experts but at the same time. Just take information as somebody who truly questions their own assumptions. That's that's that's a tough bounce but I think it's probably a pretty pretty good one. I think that's a pretty good pretty good comment on investing. It truly is Jim. I want to thank you very very much your incredible. Thank you for giving us all this time in people. Where can people go to find out more about you and find out more about the book the Innovation Stack? I do have a website. Jim Mckelvey dot com which has some essays in some get a free copy. The comic there and Check out some stuff that I'd kind of like and it's it's really an area where I tried to share ideas and then you know generally I just apologize to people who try to connect on linked in or twitter. Any of that stuff. Those are all accounts managed by people who were from my publisher. They are not really me while the Lincoln is really me but I never check it. Because it just stresses me out But a JIM MCKELVEY DOT COM or You know any of the news organizations that I'm and I'm involved with I I I do listen I love. It was one of the Great Warren Buffett Takeaways that I've learned is you have to protect your time above anything else and one thing that you can do these days to protect your time is stay off. The social media suck so except for twitter. Obviously go out and get you guys get. The innovation stack be building an unbeatable. Business crazy idea to time doing Mckelvey at your phenomenal and we appreciate your service so much to the Federal Reserve. My Guy. You're you're you're doing great things there and just appreciate known you bit. Great thank you Jim. Thank you Danielle. Thank you so much. This has been Super Fun. And here's all your listeners. Really enjoyed it all right guys. Thanks for listening to invest if enjoyed this episode and you want more information including show notes and more episodes visit us at invested podcast dot com. There's a special offer waiting for podcast listeners. Through ten my three day investing workshop absolutely free so just had to invest in PODCAST DOT com. Everything discussed on his podcast is either my opinion or Danielle's opinion and is not to be taken as investing advice. Because I am not your investment advisor nor have I considered your personal situation as your do. -ciary this podcast is for your entertainment and educational only and. I hope you enjoyed it.

Danielle Warren Buffett Jim Mckelvey Southwest CEO South West Amazon Bank of Italy Joe Mckelvey Herb Kelleher United States Jack Dorsey twitter Microsoft Charlie Munger Bank of America Phil New York publisher Saint Louis
Southwest vs American - Aviation Cyber Wars  | 3

Business Wars

25:20 min | 2 years ago

Southwest vs American - Aviation Cyber Wars | 3

"It's June nineteen, seventy four. Bob Crandall, the chief financial officer and head of American Airlines. Data services is touching down in Rio de Janeiro. He grabs his briefcase tries to shake off jet lag after flying overnight from New York. As he walks to align of taxis, the warm humid air makes shirt cling to his back, cover Cabana palace hotel before. Taxi cruises through Rios, lush landscape, passing by mountains that rise out of the sea, eventually reaching the famed Copacabana beach. Looking out the window Crandall sees hundreds of people playing volleyball horsing around the Serb young women are wearing barely there. Bikinis Crandall hasn't packed bathing suit. He's here for urgent business just three months ago. Max hopper Americans tech guru warned that the American society of travel agents which is holding its annual convention today in Rio his making plans to build its own computerized reservation system. American has its own in house system called sabre. Other airlines have their in house systems to the question is who will get travel agents on board to use their system. Travel agents don't want to build their own system. They're fairly agnostic about who's system they use as long as it's not owned and operated by single airline Crandall leans on hopper for help. If we don't figure this out fast, we could lose control of how Americans flight show. Yup. We could appear at the bottom of the list on the new computer system. The travel agents come up with and if that happens, well, other airlines get the advantage. We could lose millions. They plan to meet with the travel sociation board of directors that night to sell them on the idea of letting the airlines jointly Bill this new system for them instead of doing it for themselves. That way American at least gets a piece of the business. They've even come up with a name for the system joint industry, computer reservation system or juniors for short. That night at dinner Crandall leans into one of your sociation directors to make his pitch. Listen, don't go this alone together. We can build a state of the art system and I'll tell you what I'll make you a deal. The carriers will pay for feasability study to get started. American is ready to put in two hundred grand and I'll personally meet with United TWA in eastern and convince them to do the same. So what do you say the director nods, Bob, let's do it. Crandall breathes a sigh of relief. Maybe even elation, not only will American be helping to develop the system, but the travel agents have agreed to put hopper in charge of jitters as Crandall heads back to the airport the next day. He boards the plane with a sense of accomplishment. But this is not a static industry. It's constantly evolving. What Crandall doesn't know is that in his drive to create a revolutionary new system, he's actually just sparked the start of a multi-million dollar battle. And this ain't no booze fueled price war. No, this battle will be fought on computer screens and it will be mission critical. We're well into the summer months now. And if you're feeling stressed because you waited too long to book that vacation, then I have great news for you hotel tonight is an app that partners with awesome top rated hotels to help them sell their unsold rooms, which means you get incredible deals and they only worked with hotels. They think you'll love my friends found out what I did. They're saving hundreds on their trips and finding a great selection of rooms with hotel tonight. If you can save all this money, why use anything else hotel tonight is great for booking last minute. But if you're a planner, the mishap is for you to because even though the name is hotel tonight, you can actually book in advance whether you're booking your summer vacation a place to hang out by the pool, spontaneous weekend getaways stations road trips, business trips. Well, this is the place to do it. You can book a room in ten seconds. All it takes his three taps and swipe. So to start getting really great deals at great hotels for this summer and beyond. Check out the hotel tonight app right now and with promo code biz wars, you can get twenty five dollars off. Your first eligible booking. That's promo code biz wars be is e. w. a. r. s. to get twenty five dollars off your first eligible booking. From wondering, I'm David Brown, and this is business. You're listening to the third episode of our southwest versus American airline series aviation cyber wars. In our last episode, Southwest Airlines used a massive booze giveaway to win a fair war against braniff putting the fledgling airline on course toward its first annual profit and southwest is one a legal standoff to stay at love field. For now, the battle now moves from the sky to the computer monitors. It's the spring of nineteen seventy five. The war in Vietnam is winding down. Watergate has toppled a president. Low rider is topping the billboard charts. The economy is stuck, unemployment is high, fuel. Prices are spiking. Thanks to an oil embargo. Inflation at nine percent is gouging a hole in people's pockets. Americans are learning a new term that sums all of this up stagflation. Inside a swanky hotel bar in Chicago that spring Crandall is schmoozing, United Airlines, CEO dick ferris. We're all getting killed out there. Dick, I've almost lost count of a number of planes. We've had to sell or ground. I'd like to lose count Bob, but I see the bad numbers even in my dreams. Well, the good news is that we're making great progress with jitters. Yes, yes. The joint industry computer reservation system juniors is happening. American is partnering with United TWA an Eastern Airlines to create a system that merges the individual airlines proprietary reservation technology and also addresses the needs of the travel agents. If they can build this system just right Bill jointly control, how most flights are booked and they'll get a windfall and booking fees, likely, including fees from upstarts like southwest who will have to pay to have their flex. Listed dick. Once we get this system into travel agents offices, I think it revolutionize the industry. Sure. I mean, it's nice. Crandall is taken aback by Ferris's, lack of enthusiasm tries to get a reaction from United CEO look, dick. This is exciting stuff. I mean, come on giving people more insight into what flights are available and what price are gonna pay. That's the future of our business. We'll have more information about what kind of passengers book and what kind of flights and will be able to make booking spastic. Now that officiency he's going to help us through this damn stagflation. We beat this with technology. Don't you see? Yep. Yep, of course. Crandall starts to wonder if Farris up to something Crandall her that United plans to start selling its own reservation system called Apollo. It will be a standalone booking product for travel agents and major corporations after the meeting with ferris Crandall. Calls max hopper max. I want you to find out everything you can about what United is doing with Apollo hopper used to work at United and still has friends within the company. He starts making calls as he waits to find out. Finally, he gets a call back from a former colleague one who still works at United max. I'm gonna warn yet. United is going to roll out Apollo as a standalone system that's happening. No matter what happens with jitters hopper hangs up and immediately gets Crandall on the line. Bob, we got trouble. The policy definitely going to market United is going to drop out jitters. The only thing keeping juniors together is that the major carriers and the travel agents are working on it jointly. If United pulls out, then the travel agents will be free to buy the best computerized reservation system. They can from whatever provider they want, maybe United or TWA, or eastern, or American, or maybe IBM or some other technol-. Gee leader. The Crandall tells hopper, he believes they have an edge over United United. We'll beat them to market with sabre and we'll give agents what they want worldwide flight hotel and rental car for mation. They want an accounting system will give them what they want. No one else will, but to do that, though, Crandall needs money. A lot of it. The timing stinks with this wobbly economy. Fewer people are flying. An American is grounded, many of its planes, but Crandall makes his pitch to the board for ten million dollars anyway. Gentlemen, I know this is a very troubled company, but this technology is the future of our business. Now, we control the reservation systems. We not only get the booking fees. We can make sure that American rises to the top when agents are looking at their monitors. He gets his money. It's April nineteen. Seventy-six in the offices of heritage travel in Boston owner, Don sewn board member of the American society of travel agents stands in front of the first sabre terminal to ever be installed. The terminal Izzo hawking thing, the size of a large microwave, the big white monitor sits on a custom built desk, a thick black keyboard lies on the desk in front of the monitor's. Monochrome display a phone receiver rests in a cradle. Beside the keyboard. The phone connects the sabre terminal to multiple databases. Americans TWA's Pan Am's United's. Everyone of the office forms a semi circle around sewn as he takes a seat in front of the monitor like everyone else in his business. He relies on the official airline guide a book that lists every flight from every airline on every day of the week to book a flight travel agents find the day. They wanna travel, find flights around the time of day. They wanna go, then call the airlines offering those flights and find out the pricing. That is, if the airlines haven't changed their schedules by then. And if there are even seats available by the time, they. Make or just finish the phone call at best that process takes fifteen minutes at worst, an hour or more. Okay. Let's see. So I ki- end my ID number and Pasco. Now I have to request a city pair. Let's try Syracuse and doubts. So now I enter the date November twenty. First. Ask key, wait a minute flights. Yeah, lifetimes sees. Oh. I forgot to key in the airline I wanted to search. That's okay. That's okay. Just a fall to American Airlines flight, and now I hit execute and wow, just a couple of minutes. We've done it for the first time. An airline reservation has been made electrically from a device. Not located at a facility owned by an airline United's. Apollo is still five months away for being ready for market, but saber is online and Crandall sales people are inking deals with dozens of the biggest travel agencies in the country. The future belongs to sabre and American Airlines. But the company is paid a high price for that lead to save money. It's now contemplating corporate relocation out of Manhattan and into Dallas, the home of Southwest Airlines. You hear it over and over again. Confidence is key yet might sound cliche, but you know, some things get repeated and passed along because they are true, plain and simple. Is there anything you're feeling less than confident about this holding you back? Perhaps you've noticed that you have a little less hair than you used to have, but you're not sure there's a real solution. Well, there are two clinically proven medications that let you keep your hair and now they're inexpensive and easy to get. Thanks to a company called keeps getting started with keeps his so easy. 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When you realize you forgot to submit the numbers to your boss, just pop open your laptop or smartphone. Take care of it from home and get back to having a life right networks offers twenty four, seven, three sixty five US-based support. So getting your business on the cloud as easy, no matter how much or little experience you have with technology over one hundred thousand users, trust right networks to cloud, enable their QuickBooks desktop, get cloud connected. The. The right way to learn more. Give right networks a call at one eight, two one zero zero two, three, seven for a special ten percent off discount. Make sure to mention business wars before September. Thirtieth twenty. Eighteen that number again one eight eight eight two one zero zero two, three, seven and don't forget to mention business wars. December nineteen, seventy four at the Fairmont hotel in Dallas. There's a huge charity event taking place. Herb Kelleher, Southwest Airlines attorney is back slapping and making wise cracks as he makes his way around the room, a glass of whiskey in his hand. This is Keller's kind of seen suddenly Kelleher is jostled from behind the room is packed. Someone must have had a few too many killer thinks to himself. Then he shoved again harder this time. What the hell he spends around the coporate is Lawrence Harding. The CEO of braniff Airways brand has been jousting with Southwest Airlines in court and at airports across Texas, ever since southwest received it certificate to fly in nineteen sixty eight like southwest braniff is based in Dallas like southwest branch's customers are devoting of its brand like southwest braniff sells sex appeal with. It's hostesses two men puff out their chests and face each other. Lawrence nice to see you is a Keller. Braniff flies all over the world, but his lost market share out of its home base to south west. The way Lawrence season southwest is an interloper in his territory, cheap, knockoff of braniff, stylish brand. Shouldn't you be in court killer braniff in Texas international have been suing southwest for so long, but the company now calculates its annual legal costs on a per flight basis, which comes to about forty dollars in revenue. Every time a southwest plane takes off Kelleher hates that Keller steps forward. He's only inches from Harding space. His fists clench. Harding is staring directly into his eyes and he's not stepping back. Mary wells, Lawrence Harding's wife sees what's happening and rushes toward the two men. Now, gentlemen, this is a sophisticated event stop acting like schoolyard bullies, but Mary, this son of he takes a deep breath and walks away. Kelleher takes us swig bourbon and smiles at wells. Thank you, Mary good seeing you too. Two months later on Valentine's Day, nineteen, seventy five. A federal grand jury will indict braniff and Texas international for colluding to interfere with Southwest's operations, including coordinating their lawsuits and pressuring vendors not to work with south west and is a sign as to how ridiculous things got the court. Tell south competitors that they can't block. It's access to a fuel pump at Houston's international airport. It's the summer of nineteen seventy six. And meanwhile in Washington lawmakers are trying to find a way to jumpstart, the stalled Konami to stimulate business. They're looking to undo regulations. The highly regulated airline industry is a perfect test case. Southwest Airlines isn't concerned about deregulation. Company executives say they welcome it and the new competition it'll bring. Southwest's leaders are so confident in their business models. They believe that once regulations are peeled back, they'll be able to rule the skies and now southwest, which has five airplanes and five between Dallas Houston, San Antonio and the Rio Grande valley, but comes the poster child of what a deregulated airline industry might look like the company finished nineteen, seventy five with one point. One million passengers on nine hundred percent. Increase over its debut year of nineteen seventy one. Separate house and Senate committees have been holding hearings on airline deregulation. Not far away at a dimly lit theater in Washington. A panel discussion is about to get underway bigwigs from the airlines are there as well as the head of the civil aeronautics board, the federal regulatory group, controlling the major airlines Southwest's, Lamar muse spots, Massachusetts Senator Ted Kennedy, lead proponent of deregulation Senator hope you come down to Texas day in flying airline master muse. I'd be delighted, but if we can get deregulation through congress, maybe you'll just stop line of Austin Senator. We'd be delighted to do that. The panel of lawmakers, top airlines CEO's including news and airline industry. Regulators takes their seats, American Airlines, Albert Casey whose business relies on a regulated environment to survive, opens by arguing for continuing the status quo. There's nothing wrong with the airline industry or the form of regulation under which it operates. Those who would deregulate believe that once airlines are free from regulation, some economic magic will permit fares to go down and profits to go up. That won't happen. Muse chuckles and everyone looks at him. Oh, it's definitely possible. We're doing it just look at what we did last year in one thousand nine hundred seventy four about one hundred twenty thousand people flew out of the Rio Grande valley to the major cities in Texas. Southwest entered that market in February nineteen, seventy five in the next twelve months. You know how many passengers we carried two hundred seven. Ninety five thousand other carriers could do the same thing if their hands were not tied by regulation. Now it would also help if other carriers offered are kind of service service with a smile and a warm, welcome rather than a scowl. Panel wraps up, Casey, wanders over the views as he's removing his microphone. Here's airline dwarfs southwest, but the winds are shifting and he knows it. Well, congratulations, Lamar you kill this. Casey knows that because of south west deregulation is coming. An American Airlines can't stop it. In the next episode of south west versus American Airlines, deregulation is coming and southwest figures. It will be the chief beneficiary, but it's about to take an unexpected. Hit herb Kelleher is looking for the exit. From wondering, this is business wars. I hope you enjoyed this episode. 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Good lately, I'm talking about music. Not podcasts. Got anything on repeat for me lately. It's been Alice Cooper, yeah. Yeah. I'm such a Qatar guy, and I've been going back through his whole catalogue revisiting songs. I haven't heard in years and it's a real trip down memory lane. There's something about driving down the road with the windows down singing I- Mateen and it really makes me feel great. Yeah, maybe I feel a little eighteen years old to, but I've been on this journey. Thanks to apple music with apple. Music can listen to all the classic rock. My heart desires then switch over to pretty much anything else I want because with apple music, I get over fifty million songs ad free and get this. If you go to apple music dot com, slash BW, you can get your first three months for free. There's no obligation and you can cancel at anytime. So find your next album. To put on repeat by visiting apple music dot com. Slash BW and get your first three months, free apple music dot com. 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The Innovation Stack: You Dont Have To Be Qualified To Do What Hasnt Been Done with Jim McKelvey

What's Next! with Tiffani Bova

00:00 sec | Last month

The Innovation Stack: You Dont Have To Be Qualified To Do What Hasnt Been Done with Jim McKelvey

"This is Tiffany Bova. Welcome to this edition of the what's next podcast where I have the pleasure of welcoming Jim? Mckelvey to the show today, he is a serial entrepreneur investor philanthropist artist and author of the Innovation Stock. He's the CO founder of square and served as the chairman of its board until two thousand ten and still serves on the board of directors. In Two thousand eleven. His iconic card reader designed was inducted into the Museum of Modern Art Mckelvey founded invisibly an ambitious project to rewire. The economics of online content in two thousand sixteen. He is a deputy chair of the Saint Louis. Federal. Reserve welcome to the show. Jim Thank you tiffany. This is GonNa be fun. Oh, it's going to be a lot of fun because we're going to start out with what I call bullish and bearish at Bush is your four it bearish is you're against it then we'll dig into a couple of them if you want to. But this is just fun questions to kind of get the juices flowing and. Now. My audience looks forward to these crazy questions. So are you ready bullish for air airshow against it got? Our first one. Time Travel Bolsheviks. Rush. Oh. Bullish. See you were surprised right. I, told you I was going to be fun and totally off topic. Okay. Bullish on time travel. All right. The next one. Food trucks. Bullish. Me To Third. One maybe a little more apt to give you a little more color on this one, but there's this new service that will take a picture of you and provide a cardboard cutout for you to see your team playing live although you're not there in person. Bullish or bearish. Bearish. So I saw that it's three P. Now, the the the because of me, there are the better. Okay we'll go with that one. That's a good one. All. Right. So I am so thrilled to have you on because. Because of just the incredible body of work that you've been able to do and just being an amazing entrepreneur. But. I'd love to start with. You realize that you use kind of your entrepreneur's journey. Right when did you realize that that was really where? You felt you needed to focus your attention. Well, as you probably noticed from my resume, there's not a lot of focus. Oh, it goes all the way all over the place. So I don't know the focuses anything I've ever claimed. But I started to get off track. First Semester in college. I was a freshman studying economics. I took a computer science class with a terrible textbook and decided to rewrite the textbook knowing nothing about my subject. and. It led me down this crazy path where I realized that I was able to do stuff without formal qualifications. That sums it up. And I agree with you right. It's like you accidentally find your way without qualifications like I. Don't have my Mba by the interim saying there's certain things just kind of like the school of hard knocks I. Guess. Yeah I mean look there's some stuff you to definitely be qualified for, but I've spent my life sort of succeeding in areas where I had no formal qualifications that I see no reason to stop now. And so what got you the entrepreneur bug was at that I sort of exposure to saying I could do this and I might be able to do it a little bit better. You know. I, never really thought of it as entrepreneurship just focused on problems that I was frustrated with and it later became this term that I came to discover was called entrepreneurship but at the time it wasn't as big label or anything it was just I was frustrated by a bunch of stuff that didn't exist and I wanted to build it. And you know we've been talking a lot lately obviously, this is not a concept that's new that kind of jobs to be done. Right there's problems how do you identify it? How do you feel that whole and more? So than people don't buy a quarter inch drill that they by the whole but really they don't by the German or the whole they by the shelf on the wall that's what they're buying a way a means to an end. So you started one of the. Most well, well-known companies in square and when it was, what? What sort of led you down that path what was the moment in time if you can remember where you said wow, that there are some need here and and I think we can fill it. So Funny Jack Dorsey used to work for me at another company that I have and He came home for Christmas in two thousand eight we both lived in Saint Louis at the was visiting his family. And He just been kicked out of twitter. So he told me the story how they kicked out at twitter and I, said, we should go get even with those guys for what they did to you and he was like, well Jim. Why don't we do something more positive to start a new company so So Jack and I agreed to start a new company and we didn't have any idea what we're going to. Do. So we cast around for a couple of ideas and were were about to start working on this journaling APP, which I think neither one of us were really excited about but I went back to Saint Louis to pack up my stuff and I was in Mike last studio and lady wanted by piece glass but she only had an American Express card and I couldn't take an AMEX card lost his sale And as I did that I was talking to her, it was phone order I was talking to her on an iphone and I was like my God was why doesn't his IPHONE magically transformed into a credit card machine because it magically transformed into a book or a map or a you know radio player, a television I it it was always this. Magic thing that became whatever I wanted to but it didn't become a credit card player. So I are credit card reader. So I said we should do that and I called Jack Real excited he got excited about a two and that's what became square. and. That's a fantastic story, right because whenever I read or get the opportunity to have conversations like this with you, Jim and I. Have that. Conversation about loud square starter how quick start or how did you know twitter whatever it was it was always this like it happened to me. And I like the late fee for blockbuster Netflix's. Story Yours. I lost the sale on this glass square was born. I mean you know so it's this but but you Kinda have to have the temperament to be open to see that opportunity I don't think of myself as an entrepreneur whatever the title is right like I just that's not in my dna I can kind of uncover it and I might be to vision it and think about it and have a great idea. But I'm not that then the person that would go and say, let's go do it. While I'm tiffany. I suggest that probably the renew don't think of yourself as an entrepreneur as you've been led to believe this myth that entrepreneurs are somehow different than the rest of us that they're somehow these gifted visionaries or boulder young or I don't know better dressed or I- worst-dressed her I like. We've all been fed this myth and one of the reasons I wrote this book is because I've always felt an outsider even when I'm doing something that's been super successful and what I realized is that I've been led to believe that these super successful people were somehow different than me and what I discovered was it. Not. Only. Were they very, very similar but in fact, most of the great successes were from people who were not qualified to do what they did. So I mean Jack and I were qualified to start square neither one of US knew anything about payments I was never qualified to write that book I say I'm not qualified to do pretty much anything. I've ever done at least at business and it turns out it doesn't matter if you play a certain game like if you play a game where you're inventing new stuff than by definition, nobody is qualified. So your lack of qualifications just makes you even with everybody else. So maybe you are an entrepreneur, you just have been used in the word. Wrong. Maybe. Maybe, it's not too late for me. Let's say that how about that Jim? Let's go with that. Maybe it's not too late for me. I mean that's the other thing like a lot of great entrepreneurs. In their, forties and fifties. WHAT'S APPS? Absolutely absolutely. And you know that leads me right into the conversation around your book, the Innovation Stack because they think it's a I'd love to hear. What We have the same publisher. So I I have my own experience of sort of what it was like to write a book. Is this your first book? US My fourth. Actually I swore never write another book again. And then a herb Kelleher actually told me I had to write his thing. It was it was a homework assignment from one of my idols. That's what happened to me. So mine wasn't herb. Kelleher. Mine was Seth Godin he's gotTa Right Oh yeah wow. Gala Right. For Sub Yeah Yup, and I was like, well, okay the man has spoken I. Meant you don't Need to be doing and writing the socks like it's a brutal arduous process, and in my case, I'm a slow writer have to rewrite everything like eight times before it's readable. It's not fun. I that's a whole. No. I. We may have to do a podcast on just the whole experience of writing a book that everybody asks in I have to agree with you. Let's do that. That would be towed. You've done four I've done one and petrified t people said all the time this time you're locked up, you know you're on lockdown you can't travel like write another book like. Like no, no, no. No. Like my whole life this prison of of homework and shattered expectations no, no, no no no I look I wrote my first my first two books because I was a freshman and I didn't know what I was doing and I was pissed off. That might professor in a bad textbook CY rewrote the text book when I was in. Undergrad College At my third book was a textbook on glass because I was teaching a glass blind class. It had so many students in there were no text books. So I wrote the first textbook on the glassblowing and then this one I really did not want to write this book as a matter of fact, I tried to make it a graphic novel. My first draft of the book was a graphic novel and I showed it to herb Kelleher and he hated it like he was offended that I would portray him as some like Superhero. and. So her maybe rewrite it. That that's a great story. How Funny Did he didn't want to be the superhero but that no. That lends itself to who he is. He's young hermit. It was a super down Earth Funny Guy and an I was so awestruck by him and what he's done that I fell right into the myth like myth that I was actually trying to skewer I was in fact perpetuating by doing graphic novel format and so So at Herbs insistence I made it a just a bunch of text. There you go. That is a Nazis in a murder I mean, there's there's some there's some juicy bits in there but you know good business book should have some Nazis murder. Couple of apparently. Deals. GotTa like that. Well. So what what was the once you sort of made it through and you decide okay no graphic novel have to be a little more serious like I need to pull together what you know somewhat consider a business book I know a lot of it had to do with these. Multiple inventions in this stack of things you do that really helped set square up specifically right to beat the competitors at the time which. People like an Amazon or or even someone like southwest airlines in the example, right from her perspective or Bank of America or anybody else in what was the secret sauce that you know that you were able to uncover. Well. You know it's air. Yeah. It's funny because you say like an Amazon, I mean there's no other company like an Amazon like Amazon competes with you. Like. That's the worst case scenario. They're vicious and they did that to square and we ended up winning but I ended up confused at has as to why we won. So I, started looking for other examples of companies that have had similar experiences and No company had survived an attack by Amazon but I found other companies throughout history southwest being one of them I. Having one of them actually their dozens of examples through you know modern history and ancient history are hundreds or thousands. Of these companies that had really really of vicious battles and they'd all won against the odds and I thought well, wait a second. There's there's a pattern here and I saw this pattern and that's what led me to herb Kelleher I'd like I saw this pattern it was it was a bunch of historical data and the problem with this data's you can cherry pick it to prove anything like if you're if your selection bias is strong if you could anything. In history, and so I needed to validate it with somebody who is still alive and most of the people I've studied had already died. So herb was still alive at the time and I flew out to Dallas and spend an afternoon with him and basically just relate Mall Bhai research out of it, his feet and I said Mr Kelleher is this is this. What you feel you went through it South West and he was super excited and he said his like Yeah Jim and any pointed out some stuff that I'd missed but he was overall just like really supportive and then he he was like you know you you have to tell your story is like this. This needs to be set so I got all excited. wrote a graphic novel which her painted. So that I rewrote it as a book. Why unfortunately similar process to what I did. I kinda found companies like southwest and others, and even even a square and and I looked back deconstructed some of the decisions that those businesses made. For my book to tell that story of an and I kind of did the same thing like. I think one of the comments in your book is copying a great place to start but will help you achieve transfer mission change yet people focus in the beginning on copying and in that isn't always the best thing. So maybe you can expand a little bit on that. Well, it's not the best thing if you're trying to do something new like if you're trying to do something that's a solved problem definitely copy rights if you want to build a boat I. Mean they're good. Boat designs out there. There are a lot of things that float in the water. Now that doesn't mean you can't design a new boat but it's probably going to be very similar to other boats because boats is off problem. You know you just displace a certain amount of water and the thing floats and You keep it upright and figure out how to steer and propel it, and that's about but if you're doing something like a spacecraft. Well. That's you don't get the copy spacecraft or maybe you can copy some NASA or spacex designs generally, you know if you if you wanted to make something that you know hovered like a flying saucer like you'd have to totally invent something new. And, it's a different process. So I'm not trying to knock copying in the book but what I say is basically that you've been really. Well prepared to copy like your, DNA, your brain, your education, your society, your friends, like all the stuff that you've got a your as a resource. Helps you copy better. I wanted to write something for people who are forced for whatever reason to not copy in other words. If you're doing something new, you don't get the copy and then the world looks really weird and scary and. I always felt super alone. I always felt like an outcast and and I still do frankly when I do something new I'm always like. You know I wish I could just do somebody else had had this guaranteed that they would succeed. But if you're doing something new, you don't get that guarantee and it feels really awkward. So I wanted to write something for people who are willing to do something truly new 'cause it's a weird feeling. I couldn't agree more and the other thing you said in the book which I couldn't have agreed more with literally. Was One of the HOB. There was kind of a couple of moments when I was writing mine. And the one that has stood out the most for me that had the greatest impact when having. Conversations with people about the book was knowing when to do something is just as important as knowing how to do it at. One of the foundational. thinking in Growth Iq. is sequence the order in which you do. It has absolute implications to the success or failure of whatever it is you're trying to do. So the example I used Netflix's. or You could have even used square. But if you say net flicks if it had started in streaming, if it had started, you know with original content. If it started with all those things that would have failed had to start. With in my opinion, anyway, it had to start with kind of mail order because everybody had DVD's VHS players at the time. Not Everybody had to your point and apple iphone in their hand band with wasn't cheap not everybody had. It wasn't ubiquitous. Timing didn't allow it. Same thing would have been for square right you could have launched it think cars dot COM pets.com in the first dot com you know two, thousand, Ninety, seven to two, thousand, and four. All those things are being repeated now because the timing is right right everybody is much more attuned shopping online and buying online and carrying their wallet on their phone and not in a credit card at all those things and so I'd love to hear. while one if you agree with that too, what landed you to the win? What was that moment for you around that particular? Concept. So yes. I do a whole chapter on timing and how people don't appreciate it on but then you take it with a grain of salt because I launched this book my three years of work I, did March. Tenth was the best day possible to launch the book that was chosen a year out it was all set I picked literally the worst day in a century to watch that is the day the world shut down like everything like all the Pr everything we've done you know six months of prep to launch this thing like White Dow by a bad timing decision so like you know anything like I Like I said the book is like look this. This is not a textbook it's not a handbook. There's not a ridden go with Kelvin gives me the secret here. I'm just another guy. fumbling his way along. But what I would say is this the awareness of timing. The ability to maybe not be the first maybe maybe you should be the first, but maybe you should be the second or third or or maybe you should be the first but not right now just this appreciation because we have again, society gives us in addition to this high bias for copying the high bias for competence I, e knowing how to do something is super important and you can get a credential says how to do something but a Lotta Times and married folks will agree with me here like you can do the right thing. At the wrong time and get a terrible. Yes. So I mean you to take it from the guy that picked the worst at a century to launch his new book. Your up and literally the I tell joke and I didn't know that was the day that your actual day your book launch it was it was. Really dead worst day like a day like even two days before or after would have been materially better. Oh. I remember the day because I landed that day from Sydney Australia and I got him right before he couldn't get in right and so I remember that day and I say to everybody likes to go how you doing today I go. Hey, it's just it's just March tenth I like joke that it's just still Because you. Walk down. Yeah. Its Long. March, tenth right and so my birthday was literally the couple of days after that and I, feel like I have my birthday this year. So we're GONNA Redo it next year and I, and I'm I'm going to go back in each one year. That's it. You're lousy not and if you don't get your birthday, it's it's an unknown biological fact. I've flown on my birthday internationally left the day before, and then I land the day after right. Go Down to Asia would miss the entire Daniel up the now my birthday I think that saved me about ten years. I think. But if you do you age twice. You totally get screwed. Jim. I thought I'd figured this out now. I'm not going to back and now it's GonNa be a wash I'm actually my age damn I thought I had an advantage well, let me go back to the bias and the competence because. I feel like the win of things. Dan Pink wrote the book when and if it was a lot about like when you test kids if you test him in the morning or you test in the afternoon or when athletes train or when they actually are in competition or you know all of those things had material impact and that was about the time of day for me when I was talking about I literally meant it kind market timing right consumer timing the willingness for adoption of whatever it is you're doing. That that's that's sort of what I meant. Yeah. So The The insight that I've had aside from just being respectful of timing. is the feeling of when the right time is. And in every case. When I have been successful at That something that was you know sort of temporal in nature. I've always felt like I've started too early. Like if I feel comfortable like Oh, this is exactly the time to go. It's too late. Because the thing that gives me that feeling that now is the right time is the herd instinct, which is you know my peripheral vision and my. Comrades all feeling the same thing. So if I feel totally in sync with my timing I'm late. Up What I feel like Oh God nobody's GonNa want this way too early, the world is ready for this. And I go. Then those are the ones that have worked out and look I'm not saying that this is true for everybody I'm just saying it's true for me right time feels early. I think really like I think that uncovers where I have hesitation on entrepreneurship rates up for me like just my risk quotient personally like, oh, it has to be perfect timing. What is that perfect timing like you just gotTa go And you've got us the process. Yet. But you were probably a super successful student. You were probably well accepted by your friends like you. You probably fit in well and part of fitting in weld means you're you're super attuned to. Everyone around you. and you also get rewarded for getting credentials and you get access for getting credentials and You know being credentialed the super cool in society and if you. If you do that all your life you. Become extremely uncomfortable whenever you're out of SYNC. So it's one of the reasons why? Like if you meet a lot of the entrepreneurs, they're sort of Weirdos like meat like the super high performing entrepreneurs like we're just. Just a bit odd sometimes and I think that oddness helps because we've always been a little bit out of sync so that when we get. You know when we get out of sync because we're doing something new, we don't feel as weird or maybe we just continue to feel weird. But what I didn't want to do, and this is sort of the core reason I wrote the book is that like I didn't write it for myself. I wrote it for a friend of mine who? I know she's super competent and she has the ability to great stuff. But whenever she comes up against a problem, she's never solved before she stops. She says, well, I, can't do this and I say I sit there's a why can't you do which is we'll I'm not qualified. That's like look this problem has never been solved before in human history. So nobody is qualified to solve this problem but that doesn't mean it's an unsolvable problem. It just means that by definition, the first person to do it is going to not be qualified and you know. My examples? Always the Wright brothers you know neither one of them was qualified to fly the first airplane because humans have never flown before. So they could be qualified. Now if you WANNA fly play today, it's a totally different story you can get. All sorts of training and licensed you've got to pee in a cup and there's all sorts of stuff but. Now It's possible back. Then it wasn't, and if you're going to be I, you will not be qualified. So what do you think And I think that's great advice because I think there's all that imposter syndrome right I don't have the qualifications and that differs between men and women who are executives and Interesting. Your example was a women most of the time statistically they'll say I'm not qualified. Manigault doesn't matter I'm not qualified, which is by the way what you said right doesn't matter like go for it. And so that. It's heartbreaking because this person that this person I know her qualities like I know what she's capable of. And it breaks my heart to see her sitting on the silence. She disqualifies herself and I was like, how do I reach people like this and the answer is well I I gotta write something you know and so would you know when hurt told me to do it? I was like okay. The reason to put myself through three years of Hell to get a book you know. A decent out the war. Is. 'cause I'm a slow writer I had to rewrite at you're you're reading the eighth draft of that book I rewrote that thing eight solid times ground up. Before, it got published and the. The reason I went through. That is because like this is a way to get talent off the sidelines. Like if you're going to spend your entire life. Constrained by what society has already done I mean first of all, you'll be really well accepted because society is really cool about you know people who are like us but. But what if you run up against that problem that you have the capacity to solve? But you say, Oh, I can't do it or you feel so uncomfortable when you start doing it, you quit early like I wanted to just reach out to people to the like that and say look when I did it or when herb did it or when these other fifty people did it you know this is what they felt like and and you will be. Uncomfortable but that doesn't mean you can't do it. But we've been so trained to do everything by checklist or have a guarantee or oh, my God I mean. I I had one publisher wouldn't read the book. Because it didn't have any checklists and I was like, wait a second. My book subject is doing stuff that's ever been done before how how the hell am I going to? Write a check like how many items are the checklist and you know what they said five to seven. Five seven things should be on your checklist. That's their families. Book At. That's what I was. GonNa say. And that's kind of copy what's been done what's worked before versus entrust me once again, we have to do another podcast about writing a book because. Let's do it not at South One. Mine was very similar and and although we both landed at at portfolio I had a very specific. Kind. Of feel of the book I wanted and I fought for it because it was like look I I wasn't actually a great student in school I'm a visual listen learn not a read learner, and so I wanted to create a book that had a different kind of feel to it that could be absorbed in short bursts because who sits and reads three hundred pages in a nonfiction business book at one time. Right? It's like I wanNA, keep them past page fifty like that's I. Think it's the stats are somewhere around fifty pages beginning past fifty they're gonNA finish the book. So I said that to somebody and they said well, then write a fifty page book. Obviously. Brilliant. I should do that. The whole thing right and of course portfolios like, yeah. That's not happening. But anyway. The data the common. But I think at the end of the day. You've done and it's it's really a fantastic book. It's a fantastic read for Franche preneurs for people who are trying to. Re Imagine what's possible coming out of this current situation you know how to be entrepreneurs during this Kobe time how to pivot and a lot of things. So as we begin to wrap this up, what would be your recommendations knowing that we're we're in very uncertain times for people who are maybe have these ideas, right? That's never known before and ended their considering timing. Yes. So here's an interesting thing that I found all of the entrepreneurs that I studied had a major cataclysmic event. square start in the middle of last recession of the largest bank in the world was launched in San Francisco? The year before the Great San Francisco Earthquake. And and now we find the world in covid nineteen and this crazy world that's partially shut down and nobody nobody your experts in this. So I'm on the Fed now and I work with the world's best economists and nobody has a PhD in world economic shutdown like it's just never been done before. And so what I say to people. Look maybe I picked the worst day in a century to launch a book, but ironically the subject of the book which I was expecting apply to maybe one in ten people now applies to like one and two because we're all in this world where copying everything that used to work no longer works. So. What's happened is that the world has been thrown. Into a more inventive frame and I'm not saying this is a good thing. I love the fact that the world was working the way it was and I miss the old days and I'm sitting here you know covered glistening layer of hand sanitizer as we speak, you know but there is just No Way to go back to that, and so we're all being forced to be a little bit more entrepreneurial now. What's that feel like it's uncomfortable but it also has some advantages and if you handled it correctly. This. Is One of the best times in history to start something new, and the reason is not that the you know downtown towards are somehow. You know better for entrepreneurs. It's worse for everybody who isn't an entrepreneur? So you are relatively. Less disadvantaged. In other words, it slows down everybody else. So you look like you're moving faster. Well. That's great advice, and so you know if if you were to give the one two things that you would leave with our listeners today about what they could do during this time if they maybe they have an idea right and they want to be bold and they want to go out and do something installed before. Or even people who work internally like I think I'm more of an entrepreneur than an entrepreneur, and so they may work at a company and have an idea what would your one or two pieces of of advice for them? One recognized that you will be uncomfortable. Get, rid of this idea that there's some guarantee. And it's a cheap thing to sell like I. Mean, I, I know a company that will publish your book. If you give them a checklist, I can give you the name of them. You don't want that book because it doesn't work all the time it's not if you're going to do something. In A. Crazy world you don't get doesn't come with a guarantee so I know you've been trained all your life to expect you know certainty but you don't get that. So get over it The second thing I would say is a remember that the most successful people in the world. Were not qualified and were just as. Messed up as you are. and you know I always feel like I don't come to the battle with all the stuff that I want I always feel like I'm ill prepared and I'm too early and the Times where it's worked out doesn't always work out but the times where it's worked out, you know the only thing that gets you over those feelings is when you succeed and when you succeed the good news is. You have the whole market to yourself. So this is the pattern that I saw on the is that the companies a follow this pattern and built innovation stacks. Ended up literally. Owning entire market. And they become the biggest in the world and it's phenomenal. Well, what great advice? So my piece of advice would be get the Innovation Stack published on March Tenth Twenty Twenty. Jim worked hard the eighth. Of the book but I almost feel like we need to write that blog about the process of writing a book and the end for everybody who reads the blog they get a copy of the comic book version of the Book because you know I think, Oh, I totally do that I totally do that. Well, actually give away the comic like if you go to Jim Mckelvey dot com you can download a free copy of the comic because I wasn't gonNA throw out I had to had to kill all the parts with her because her didn't want him to be portrayed as a comic heroes. So that's all been destroyed but a a p Giannini who is a banker hero And fortunately was not around to tell me I could portray him in a Cape I portrayed him in a Cape but men in the eighteen hundreds sometimes wore capes without irony or stretchy pants. So yeah, there's A. There's a free comic for you. What if you wanted to just go to Jim Mckelvey dot com. Excellent. Well, thank you Jim so much for spending time with us. It was a lot of fun that time blue by. So I appreciate all of your. Great Show. Thank you. You're welcome. Thank you for joining us and how can people follow up besides going to Jim Mckelvey dot com. Any other social media you want to share with people. No not really I mean I I will tell you I don't you social media If you got the book, that's really the only thing I do social media for an I I do that so that I have more sanity in my life not that I hate social media is just I can't use it responsibly. So don't it's SORTA like cocaine I. Stay away from this. I think that's a first for me. I, think I have to end on that Jim. Thank you so much for joining us. Face Tiffany by by. I don't know about you but I could've listened to that conversation for another thirty minutes so much fun to talk to Jim his experience with being one of the CO founders of square and as well his perspective on how to be an entrepreneur but also that high bias for copying incompetence in how you just there is no right time. If you're GONNA do something nobody else has done before. So my advice would be be bold pick up a copy of the innovation stack. As, well, we talked a lot about some correlations between growth IQ innovation stack as well but I hope you enjoyed this conversation as much as I did please subscribe leave some feedback share with your friends I. Appreciate you spending time with us here today.

Jim Mckelvey the Times herb Kelleher twitter Netflix Jack Dorsey Tiffany Bova I CO founder Museum of Modern Art Mckelvey Mckelvey publisher writer Saint Louis Bush Seth Godin Amazon
The Innovation Stack | Jim McKelvey

The LEADx Show

48:40 min | 7 months ago

The Innovation Stack | Jim McKelvey

"Would you like to accelerate your career and reach your full potential in just minutes a day? Welcome to the lead X. Show with New York Times bestselling author and eat five hundred Entrepreneur Kevin Cruise. Hi Everyone I'm Kevin Cruise. Welcome to the lead X. leadership show now in just a minute. I'm going to be talking to Jim. Mckelvey the CO founder of square about his new book called the Innovation Stack. But before we do the interview today actually March Seventeenth of twenty twenty and much of the world including the Philadelphia area has shut down non-essential businesses and many if not most companies have now asked people to work from home at Latex. There isn't much we can do on the health front. Unfortunately other than to just be good role models of social distancing but in the spirit of supporting leaders around the world were doing our best to provide educational content and coaching for everyone. Who's now faced with working from home or leading remote teams last week? I personally recorded a Webinar on my top tips for leading remote team members. Leagues has been a remote first workplace and my previous companies have all had a healthy mix of in office and remote workers and it never stopped us from having great growth in productivity and even winning some best place to work awards so I recorded this Webinar. Which we've posted on our website and are making available free to everyone. So if you want to check that out visit lead x dot Org Click on the resources menu and then on the webinars choice and you'll see it listed there. I also WanNa remind everyone that I previously interviewed on the leadership show. Jason freed from base camp about his book remote. So you can go to lead dot org and just search on Jason Freed F. R. I. E. D. or two leeks Dot Org podcasts. And scroll down. It was originally episode zero zero six literally the sixth episode. I think ripped to three hundred and sixty now so it's probably a laughably poor quality interview back then but I know Jason's remote advice is golden so I hope you'll check that out as well and if your lead customer plead no. We are quickly putting together an entire remote work action plan a curriculum with webinars courses book summaries and weekly actions to excel in terms of workplace productivity at home and leading remote teams now turning back to today's episode. Jim Mckelvey is a serial entrepreneur and inventor artist philanthropist. He's even deputy chair of the Saint Louis Federal Reserve and interviewing him as the CO founder. He's the CO founder of Square and squares that company. That makes that little credit card reader that you can stick in your iphone ipad to process credit card payments. It really revolutionized the credit card industry the payment industry and really empowered small businesses and Solo preneurs to take any kind of card. You know very very affordably now. What's also interesting is he. I mentioned he's the Co founder of square while his partner is Jack Dorsey. Jack Dorsey is of course known as the CO founder of twitter. You might realize a remember that Jack Dorsey is actually the CEO of both twitter and square The only CEO of to publicly traded companies. And we sort of get a treat. Because I asked him about that a at the end ask Jim Mckelvey about working with with Jack and What Jack should do about running both of these companies because he's taking some heat from it lately. Twitter has been underperforming and some people think Jack Pick one company or the other in this interview. You're going to hear Jim talk about innovation as a series of problem solving steps that sort of stack on top of each other and he says that anyone can tackle big problems and make a huge difference by applying this philosophy of developing the innovation stack. Enjoy the interview. Let me officially welcome you to the lead X. leadership show. Thank you now Jim. I was talking before we started this official part of the interview. That not only did I read the book but I I love the book now. I've done I don't know the exact count your like. The three hundred and sixty fifth author or something like that that. I've interviewed over the last three years and I don't think I've ever done this before. Actually WanNa read the very first paragraph from your book because it's a great business book. The innovation stack again. You know building an unbeatable. Business one crazy idea to time but what my listeners. To understand like this is a fun. Read doesn't read like a traditional business book and you got me in so right in the introduction. You say you're right. Suddenly we won for over a year a giant monster had chased us through the graveyard of corporate corpses Amazon. The scariest monster on the planet had copied our product undercut our price and was going to eat our brains then without warning on Halloween in two thousand fifteen. The monster stopped the attack and handed us a tree. And then you go on to ask. Was this just luck or had something else happened. And that was really. This book is about your journey at square and then the what happened when Amazon. Challenge you and you looking back about why. Why didn't you guys loose right? Yeah yeah so it's I mean first of all. It's not a memoir. It's not my story. It's how sort of living through what I lived through. Confused me enough to do research. Because I couldn't explain how we'd be Amazon. That was the whole thing that The mystified which was simply that this company who always wins when Amazon copies your product undercut your price and adds the Amazon brand. They always win. It doesn't matter if it's diapers or servers like it's it's never been the case that I found a company at our stage that survived a direct attack by Amazon now Google's doing okay and arguably Netflix will stand up to him but like little companies. Never so I had answered that question and the answer was very hard to find and it led me on this search when I finally got the answer I was like. Oh my God. I got to write a book but I didn't want to write a business book so that doesn't read like a business book I know. It's publishes a Business Book and you probably use the business books and it is kind of businesses but like what I discovered these stories. I wanted to write a comic book because the stories of companies in this situation are great epic comic material. You have murderers you have Nazis. You have destructions of major cities like you have a evil gangs and just explosions. People who wore capes like like literally they weren't capes and and I thought like why am I trying to tell this without a pen in my hand so I did somebody? First draft of the book was this sort of schizophrenic comic slash business book so it would go comic comic comic than it would switch to some of business. And that's how it was going until I got to herb. Kelleher chapter so her legendary founder of Southwest Airlines who I thought would be surreal to be portrayed as sort of a superhero. I asked her if he would let me sort of rendered the interview that he gave me in comic form and herbs said no and I was and I was like this was unbelievable because her has a great or I should say hat. He has a great sense of humor. Like the guy was always laughing and he said no and I was like oh well he just doesn't understand so I sent him like examples of the comics and he just wrote back to me the nicest gym. I'm old to me. Comics ARE NOT SERIOUS. And what you're talking about affects the lives of hundreds of thousands of our employees and millions of our customers and I just don't think that it's a serious enough trip and So I backed off because of Herb Kelleher and also my publisher for sure when they got the draft of the book which was half comic. They sat me down in a window. Windowless Room in Manhattan. And they give me the conference for life doesn't have the view of the skyline and they said you idiot you realize that both people listen to books odd audio these days at the ones that don't read it on a four screen and your comics are just not going to show up in either of those formats so just kiss ninety percent of your audience goodbye at and I had to go well. I guess you're right so so it is a book it's written But but what had made the comic anyway. If you buy the book you go to Jim. Mckelvey dot com. I'll give you the comics so the comic just for Chapter Nine but it is. You know it's got explosion evil a murder like you know good stuff. I love this so let me Jay. LemMe Lemme start though at the beginning Obvious anybody evolved in. Tak and certainly small businesses are familiar with square but for any of my listeners. Who are not familiar with the company square. Take us back. I mean first of all. How did you come up with the idea for the company? And what was the original device? That is pretty legendary. Well the original idea was Jack Dorsey and I were just going to start a company and he and I had no idea what we were going to do. We're both from Saint Louis. We both had worked together at a company that I actually still own. I I was Jack Second boss. It came to work with me after he left. The employment is of his mother at a coffee shop that she had But when Jack was sixteen years old it was fifteen years old. We started work with me. we were a team and we decided to get the band back together You know fifteen years later and so we started a accompanied but the only thing we do that we wanted to build something for mobile technology so we hired an engineer out of Apple. It was GONNA start two weeks so that they gave us two weeks to figure out what we'RE GONNA DO. And in that time neither one of US came up with a good idea but I was back at my glassblowing studio. So I'm a glass floor on top of while the job I I make glass and stuff that nobody needs and I love selling it especially if it's been sitting on my shelf for you and this lady called to get rid of this piece. That iphone was hideous but it was like I couldn't I couldn't let on that. I really hated the peace so I had a really high price tag on it and she wanted this thing and I couldn't accept her pay because all she had was an American Express card and so I lost his sale. I was pissed off and then I I Call Jack and I said we need to fix this problem for little guys like me because I'm sick of losing sales. I'm sick of not being part of the banking system. I'm sick of not having the tools that the big companies do so Jack thought that was interesting. And that's what became square and so and again I think most people have have probably seen the device even if they don't know this may be if you're at a A small business or an independent coffee shop. And you go to buy your coffee. Sometimes they'll have low takeout. You know they'll have an iphone or IPAD and this little white square device sticking out the top of their sliding your credit card And and you innovated this. This idea. one thing has fell entrepreneur at a smaller scale that I was surprised at is you guys. Launched into this business in the financial services Fintech was really hot right. There was no such thing as tackle we started. And so you launch in you again. Had Me laughing out loud in a chapter where like it was day one or three and you discovered? Hey everything we're doing illegal. Yes yes I was not laughing. I discovered that could find site. It is kind of funny when you discovered that the business that you've set up to do is illegal on the first day but it wasn't even that it was like hyper illegal like it was like. I finally stopped counting when I got to seventeen laws. Regulations and rules that we were in violation of with every single transaction. But if you think about the finance world banking highly regulated. There are a lot of laws about know your customer feedback and Ford assets as SARS. At like they're just all sorts of crazy things you gotta do and then. Visa MasterCard has rules. Every bank has rules the auditors. Have RULES LIKE EVERYBODY? Has All these rules. And you have to comply with those or they don't let you play in the sandbox and so we were sort of hurled out of the sandbox On the first day and that's interestingly enough what led swear to become square because I think that first day if they'd been if if there had been this easy way for us to connect to the system and just build this little system that I wanted We would not have built innovation stack. We would've just copied what everybody else was doing because copying is not a bad idea But we couldn't copy. There was nothing for us to copy and so because we are in violation of all. These rules We to get very creative and it took us a year and a half to finally either get compliant with those rules or get those rules changed. How long before you actually launched a product eighteen months? Eighteen months to launch. Well I'm sorry. Eighty bucks to launch a legal product. We had the basic product working in three weeks. So it was. I could take your credit card. Use My iphone and suck money out of your bank account at into my bank account at at three weeks so we had. We had all the tech working three weeks but it took another year and a half to get all the non tech stuff figured out all the regulations all so so I mean in round numbers. It took a month to build the product and a year and a half to make it compliant with the world. So I want to jump to so we can get into this concept the innovation stack which of course the book is about you Senate about year five Amazon giant scary monster Amazon launches not just something similar not a not a not an alternative solution. I mean they copy. I mean it. You said they BA- basically looked like device except to his black. He was cheaper and they had live support which you didn't have. Yep Yep say. They came at US hard They I mean what can I say They did a pretty good job. 'cause Amazon right. They they ripped off our hardware. Rip Off our software kind of And then undercut our price and that was what we thought. That was that And I can't express how terrifyingly lonely it is to be attacked by Amazon. Because it's not as if you're sitting there in this group of other companies. That's been attacked by Amazon. Because if you look at the subset of companies that have been attacked by Amazon. They don't exist. They either disappear or become part of Amazon so we look for some peer-group and there was none So that tells you something it tells you that you never are going to win this fight So we had some very tense meetings where we decided What we do and we very carefully examined all of the things we're doing. It looks like it's like getting a terminal diagnosis from your physician. And he says Okay Kevin. You got six months to live and all of a sudden you go. Well what's important to me? You know right. And that was sort of the the the corporate feeling and We looked at all the stuff we were doing and we didn't change a thing. We didn't even cut our price match. Amazon's price we. We just looked at everything we're doing and said you don't everything we're doing we're doing for a reason and that reason is almost always our customer. Even the even not lowering our price was something that was customer centric. Because like we couldn't see a way to serve our customer and lose money on every transaction. We were already losing money on some transactions but basically using Amazon's math we would lose money on nearly every transaction and we just thought this is insane. There's no way we can do it so we didn't even we didn't even ask their price and what happened. Amazingly Was Year and half later Amazon backed off. They quit and by the way they were cool about the way they quit like Amazon. Soho for all my ripping on Amazon and by the way the irony of be tried to like PIPPA book that is sold primarily on Amazon at the same time. I'm sitting here trashing Amazon. Like controlled my ratings and all this other stuff like that is not lost on me for the Amazon executives. Listening to this podcast is let me tell you that. I am publicly acknowledging. How cool you guys were when you gave up attacking square because Amazon did when they quit was a male all of their former customers a little white square reader and we were amazed. I mean it was just the coolest way to go out. What was the do you remember the actual day or when someone said Hey. Yeah it was Halloween. It was Halloween. Like it was like the eve of. Halloween is October thirtieth. Amazon's were out. We're going to send every one of our customers a square reader. You guys win and I mean you know happy Halloween. That's that is that is the best. That was the best present I've ever gotten on any holiday Jim. I don't think you talk about this in the book. You just kind of interesting to me. That Amazon would invest everything they did to to take you guys on at at any point had they approached you or jack to say. Hey we're kind of interested in this idea to let's Let's acquire you are. Let's make an investment or something. I mean did they try to work with you. Directly at first not directly. They did have some conversations. I know that there were some high level conversations. Yeah and we thought that they wanted to work with US Amazon calls and says hey you guys might be a good product so there were some conversations. I wasn't in those meetings. Yes so I don't exactly know what they were saying. and But yeah I mean when Amazon calls and invites you up you show up. You know it was It was like being some into the White House. Right you've you know you've got right so there's a A. We thought we thought at one point they might be a partner It turned out they wanted to become a competitor but then ultimately I think they turned into a better partner than anything so I guess it. Kinda worked out but answering the question of why they didn't succeed right. Took me the better part of three years. And that's how you you figured it out today and said it wasn't because we had one innovation we had an innovation stack right. Yeah tell me about that so I didn't know what innovation stack was so the first thing I did was I look for appear. I look for some of the company that had this situation so first of all I call all the companies that Amazon had had a visceral and I talked to their founders and they all wanted to talk to me but like a support group like this was like alcoholics anonymous or Amazon is Amazon anonymous. Because it was all anonymous. Like none of you'll read the book. None of them were quoted in the book And I tell some of their stories very obliquely without attribution or anything. But I will tell you. Every fact in that book has been has been researched and verified by multiple sources. But I can't also sources because they all are still terrified of Amazon. These are individuals who said I'd better not say anything about what really apple in my company's case with Amazon so none of go on the record So I couldn't find a peer in my contemporaries and so I started looking throughout history for like. Maybe there were historical examples. Will it turns out looking through history that are hundreds of and when I started extorting examples of companies. That had done what we did which was basically create a new market by doing a bunch of different things which I call the innovation stack. We'll talk about that in a second and then get attacked viciously by incumbent competitors or governments You know startups. I mean. Did they just get attacked and always want and not only did they always win but they almost always one without having to do anything they didn't have to change anything which is amazing to me so you wouldn't United Airlines Attack Southwest Airlines. That wasn't a fair fight. Like united was a number two carrier in the country. United southwest at the time was still kind of start up and southwest wipe the floor. I mean the joke about united which they headed airline called Ted and the joke was Ted stands for the end of United. Right or united with you and I on board. I mean like like the humor was vicious but but all of a sudden code I saw these I saw these companies that had our same pattern and I was like my God. What are they doing and looked and and my God. They did the same thing we did and they built US innovation stack so innovation sack. Not The old guys suspense. It's a very simple idea. And that is invention innovation typically is not one or two things it is ten twenty forty different things that you have learned to do differently and as you evolve these things as a startup you They don't evolve in a nice linear sort of bullet list sort of way they involve in this sort of messy swirl. Where wanting you a one thing you do causes another problem. Solve that other problems. They have to invent something new to solve that problem. But that infects first problem and then there's the third problem. Fourteenth problem in the fourteenth problem caused a second problem to disappear but now the third problem prices like it. Just you don't but in the process of doing this these these solutions these innovations all sort of CO EVOLVED. And they do so in a way that when it is finally finished you have something that is ridiculously durable like it. It literally can run an industry for as long as you obey the rules and then what I did was. I studied companies. Who built these innovations stacks and they all make massive amounts of money but some of the maintain these leads for generations or other than give them up over time and so I do some analysis on that basically wanted to. I wanted to get the message out because the other interesting thing that I found. This is probably probably the most profound insight in the book is not the Innovation Stack. It's it's the people behind these world. Changing companies were basically unqualified to do all the stuff they did. So biggest bank in the world started by a kid who dropped out of school at age. Fourteen or fifteen never finished high school builds the biggest bank in the world. Oh by the way before building. A bag was in the financial no. He was a produce better. He sold lettuce. Okay biggest bank in the world big furniture store in the world Furniture manufacturer the world. Seventeen year old kid started that one square Jackson massage therapist. I'm a glass blower. I mean how the hell are we qualified right like there's zero qualifications? They're like up. Her Keller started southwest airlines. He was a lawyer like he was just the guy that was trying to represent south Western Didn't know anything about the airline industry and again and again and again so what? I was writing the book. This light went on in my head and I was like. Oh my God what I'm seeing here. Is this path for ordinary people for just you and me and you know frankly anybody to do to have world changing impact if they if they stick at it long enough and understand the pattern. So that's why I wrote it. Let me make sure we're giving the listener of examples and we'll we'll start start with square so yeah from the outside a naive outsider like myself if I would have looked at the square device and the company I say. Oh that was innovative. They took the credit card. Swipe E. Machine and crunched down into a little device. You could plug on your iphone. One invention they took the swipe her shrunk it. And you could stick it on your iphone. That's their innovation. But there were many obviously many many many more innovations in the stack. But what were some of them for square well? So in the book recounts Fourteen and I probably all off the top of my head but one was the way we did. Sign up so you could click a license agreement. That was Like any software license agreement as opposed to a forty two page. Six point Type contract which was typical when we started but because our license agreement was non compliant with what the banks right were requiring out. Our people were trusted. The banks so we had to essentially put our own balance sheet between us and the banks so it was like your license agreement is with square and our agreement is with the banks. Well then it turns out that that connection to the banks is not easy so you have to get the banks to change the way they behave. because our system is for small merchants. We had to simplify it. Because if you if you know anything about credit cards they're very very complicated beasts. They have different prices at different times. They have different reward structures. They have different ways. You have to submit. They have different ways they settle the funds. They have different fees. All this stuff is just overwhelmingly complicated to a normal person so we had a simple that we had to change the way people were getting paid also at the time People were getting paid very slowly so it would you run a card then you would get paid you know three or four days later. Will this is ridiculous like we have electric commerce in this country but the credit card system was still moving at the speed of carbon paper so there was no reason to do this because banking system is all electronic these days so we we settled funds faster than we were receiving in other words. We will give you your money faster than we ourselves. Were getting paid. We have massive negative float at square so every time we at every time we charge you every time you made a sale we would actually lose money temporarily so we had to like make this up in volume so then we took all the friction. Now so we took all the All the contracts out so there were contracts with Gregg try can quit We took the class out. It's free a. We took the customer support out so this is this is sort of a big deal in the early days. If you wanted help we didn't give it to you accept email. If you had a big problem you can email us. But there was no phone line and that was by design because we designed our system from the ground up to be like g mail. So I don't know do you g mail all the time. Yeah have you ever called G mail customer support? Never have never. I mean we've been using D. Gino for almost twenty years. Now it's it's this thing that I run my life on and I can't call a g mail supporter you know But it works and so we use that as a model we said. Let's build a system that is so good and so simple and so obvious it has all the features you need and under the stupid stuff that you don't even have to call us so that not having customer support was a real innovation both for us and our customers because it forced us to be super strict about what we would do with our system so all of the craziness all the complexity. Just pull out so I mean that's a bunch of stuff that was in squares. Innovations act there. There are a few other things but but if you think about that that's a lot of stuff that's different all at once and and just to to be able to contrast give us one more example. You referenced What was then called the Bank of Italy? What were what was the Bank of Italy? What were some Some pieces of the innovation stack back then so the Bank of Italy was the perfect parallel that I found square. So what happened when I started looking through? History it turns out history is full of innovation. Stacks like it's just full of them and so I saw this panel. I was like oh well now. I can choose any examples that illustrate my point so the first thing I looked for was another square. I WANNA defy a company that did exactly what squirted with one exception and the exceptions critical and the exception was they couldn't use technology. In other words it could be a modern company. Where like look if you get a technical advantage these days your growth can be turbocharged and that is almost so powerful it overwhelms everything else so if you have network effect or growth then those effects are so powerful that they dwarf bad management. They'd word it's like all other experiments cease because that's the that's the dominant factor so forgetting a tech company. I wanted to find another square. Done the same thing and it turns out that this produce vendor who retired at age thirty because he so much money selling lettuce that he decided he never had to work again guide. Ap Giannini was my counterpart a century earlier. And he like. I was unqualified to start a the finance business of money. Bunny moving business. He decided to start a bank. Jack and I decided to start a credit card company but our paths were almost identical. We didn't know about the market But at the time banking look a lot like credit. Cards looked in twenty Twenty ten when Jack and I were doing square which was it was only for the elite It was a corrupt system. It was very club Ish The rates were insane. There were a bunch of things that didn't make sense and ged went through fixing all these things using innovation stack and he built Bank of America which he built the Bank of Italy which is now called Bank of America and at the time he was building it. It was the biggest bank in the world. Okay so think about that chase J. P. Morgan You know All the New York banks all the being melons. All those big industrial banks they got their ass kicked by a produce vendor. He went the floor with them because he had an innovation stack and they did. Do you think it's a prerequisite to not have experience in whatever you're trying to change the world in like if you're coming from a context is it can you. It's hard to have that beginner's mind if you're coming from that industry already. Yes a beginner's mind as a super important quality but I look at it differently although it's the same concept so expertise. Let's talk about expertise for a minute. I believe that expertise is only possible in industries where the solutions have already been made by others. Okay so let's talk about the pick any interest you want to open. You want a coffee shop. My friend runs a coffee shop. Guess what you can go to a convention. Were they teach you how to run a coffee? You zero about coffee shops and you become an expert in coffee before you open your coffee shop. You could do that like literally you can. You can buy. Every part of that business you could buy consultants. You could hire you everything. I'm sure. Even coffee coaches fry there as a matter. I know there's one because I have a friend who consults often. How Learner helped helped guys who make blue bottle coffee like my son coached the guys who started blue bottle so there. There's a coffee coach right. So so that's an interesting in. That's an interesting business because you can have expertise. You can be an expert there if you're doing something that has never been done. There are no experts. Okay so What's like a coffee? Business will have it on marijuana dispensary. Okay those things just became legal like in the last couple of years. That was a business. Where the first guy who did it He or she couldn't copy. There's nothing to copy. You don't like you can't sit there. Well I'm going to figure all this out because you could copy some of it. You kind of say well maybe need to store but like all of the things you have to do like maybe you have to lock down your supplies or maybe you gotta deal with the Mafia or maybe it's not the mafia but it's the banks of the government and I don't know I've never. Frankly been one of those places but but that's a business where you can't copy so expertise. I'm not knocking expertise. Get it if you can get it but also understand that. There are certain new problems that nobody has ever solved where you will only be able to solve them by doing something new and there are no experts or something that is new and that's sort of the profound insight. If if I if I have one in the book it's that there are no experts of the new and if you look at the look at the book I have a person in mind who I wrote. This for. The whole book was written with one person in mind as I was writing the chapters because I know person who is incredibly qualified to do amazing things and she. She's smart. She's hard working. She like hearts in the right place. She's she's brilliant okay. But I've watched her time and again disqualified herself when she comes up to go. She comes up against a problem that I think she could saw but she says while. I'm not qualified to do this now. Her whole life she liked. The rest of us has been trained to be qualified before we do something like. That's just smart like don't jump in the water. If you don't know how to swim take swimming. Lessons be qualified before you jump to the war. You know what I'm saying. Yeah be qualified if you can't be qualified but don't disqualify yourself if you're doing something new because nobody's qualified to do something. If you're doing something new qualification goes out the window and what I see in my friend. And it's heartbreaking. Is I see her not solving problems that I think she could solve? Don't know that she gets. I can't prove that she could solve it. But I think she's disqualifying herself far too often and I wrote the book because I was like how many millions of people do the same damn thing. I mean how many of us when we come up against a problem. That is what I call a perfect problem a problem. That is solvable. It can't be solved but has never been solved yet. But you can be done and you give up. Because you're lacking some credential dude. They're never going to be a credential. You're never gonNA get that credential and I wanted to just sort of hold the hands of listeners. Who say look here are people who have done it before you? Here's what their journey is like. And as a matter of the original title to the book which I never got past like I said it was a first steps off a flatter because what I wanted to do was I wanted to describe how scary it is to do something that has never been done but also how fun it is to do something that's never been done and and and you say we'll wait. You can't have scary and fun at the same time and I say yeah I mean look. You can't like can actually do something that's terrifying but still have a ball doing. I think you answered the question. I was going to come at because I it was going back to sort of how we started about you. Jack Not really having any experience in this produce salesperson starting a bank and entrepreneurs will often jump in. We'll take that first step off the flat earth. I have friends who are entrepreneurs who claim that. We're literally like crazy like there's something off about us to to be willing to do that. I've had other say yes genetic. You know it's just some kind of weird switch that lets people do that or or or or not A lot of people have different explanations but no way you're saying look it isn't even like an innovation gene. It isn't that you're more clever. It's you keep talking about problem solving so rather than feeling like we need to know it already your masters we need to at least have confidence that were good problem solvers. Perhaps yeah I mean a little self confidence is helpful but I would say that self confidence is sort of a secondary characteristic of an entrepreneur. I think survival instinct is the number one. Okay you just you just refuse to die And what I mean by that is you. Don't quit before you've exhausted all potential avenues and the thing that I seen time and again. I like what motivates a person who knows? I don't even know what motivates me but I got a pretty good guess. What NOAH. What motivates me? And since. I'm the only person I can speak for. I'll speak for myself. I am not a bold person I am not a guy who looks at stuff and says I can do it and I am not afraid I look at. I'm a guy who at best gets upset with problems and wants to find a solution as impatient and I commit myself to the solution and then get into horrible trouble right but then I don't quit because I'm afraid like I'm afraid to quit. I'm afraid to dime afraid to give up. And what I saw in some of these other entrepreneurs was this odd quality where they refuse to die so that the great example is the founder of ikya anger incompetent. I mean they like this guy was persecuted like they kicked him out of his country. You know they banned him from the trade fairs. They wouldn't let him sell his furniture. Like I imagine that. Imagine be so you so so ostracized that you like. You can't sell a couch. You know they must hate you pretty bad if there was really take those cushions and get out of here up but these are people who just had the survival instinct. They didn't quit so I I don't give much advice to people. I mean I know you guys are in the executive coaching thing and I should probably signed up because I probably could lose it. But if you don't have a coach or somebody like a partner. Who keeps you motivated on the track? A fear can be a good coach. Like just just put yourself in a situation. That is dire enough that you have to perform. And then you'll keep going now. That's not I'm not recommending that but I'm saying that the pattern that I saw a lot of the entrepreneur companies as is at one point or another. They were under so much stress from being attacked that it created. This will herb. Kelleher despise the describes it as a warrior spirit because southwest airlines got attacked viciously and. He said a galvanized the whole company. It's what creates that Southwest Culture and by the way if you flew South West in the early days. Those planes were fun. They were like it was like a party at five hundred dollars. Let me shift with our last few minutes here. I'm curious for you. Know General General Career Advice. You were at square for a long time. You came chairman When did you decide to leave? Why did you decide to leave so I became chair because I gave himself the title like I did? It wasn't like some meritocracy rose to the ranks and became chair. But I mean that's how I started with I started with the title is CEO and then we sort of added a butch triangles underneath us. So don't make a great manager. I'm not a good managers but look up. I don't have management advice. I'm terrible manager. I always about my management advice is go find. Somebody is a good manager. If you're as bad as I am and pair up with them You Know Jack is actually manager. He's he's he's very methodical He likes process he's a clear thinker and that makes manager and HE MANAGES TO COMPANIES AND. I am not a good manager. But you want me to hell out of there so Yeah my management advises. Don't hire me as a manager or anyone like me. Just get us out. I'm good at starting stuff. You mentioned Jack Is is running both twitter and square these days. I actually wrote about him several years ago. And one of my books on on productivity talking about Some of his advice about compartmentalizing but also very hard work As he ran to company as he continues to run to companies and he's been taking a lot of heat for that by certain investors lately. Like how can you? How can you really be the CEO of two companies? You've got to really pick one or the other any comments on on Jackson ability to be CEO of to publicly traded companies at the same time. Well I've got a couple of comments. None won Jack is single. I don't know if you've got a family. I know where you're going with this. I mean like family takes a lot of time and I love my family and I wouldn't give up my family's left squares full-time when my son was born because I didn't want to be the guy who never knew his kids. So that's what sort of led me out of square but Jack doesn't Atkins And he has a little more time and he has a little more freedom over his time than somebody WHO's In in a in a blip so that's that's the but the other thing. I say is law if he checks to a kick ass job at square so I can vouch for that as far as his job at twitter. Look at the pattern okay. They kicked him out the first time it was a it was a CO founder of the company. You're not the first time he comes back as the executive chair okay They kick out the second time as executive chairman he comes back as a CEO right like you kick him out the third time he's GonNa come back as like some God like being. That will be like every time you kick. Jack Dorsey out of twitter. He comes back bigger and stronger so like even. If you don't like what Jack's doing I think you gotTa let him run a business. So so there's argument for letting Jack Stay at the helm of his company and actually it all seriousness. Twitter is a very weird. Twitter has an innovation stacked. Twitter has a bunch of things that like normal managers might not do that well at twitter and they've tried that it's not these. These guys aren't smart that they've tried other people. It doesn't work so glint. The guy runs companies is doing a good job. Yeah I I certainly don't have any insights into twitter or or Jack but I think it's really ridiculous to knock. Ceo Based on like a splitting of Tiber number of hours because Do you really want to think of your CEO as an hourly worker always only putting in twenty hours this week or he's only giving us forty hours this week and then he's moonlight you somewhere else. That's not that's not what you're you want if that's not why you've hired a CEO is to put in hours. It's about their mind about strategy. It's about attracting talent. It's all these other things. Yeah I mean for without logic. We should only hire single people right. I've never want to hire somebody who's married. Because they wouldn't be fully focused on like. I want somebody who is so desperate and you know Solis that all they have is work. You know. But that's the extension of that logic. Yeah that's right Jim. We have to wrap up the program again. A very entertaining insightful book. The innovation stack building an unbeatable. Business one crazy idea at a time. Any final words and make sure you tell us Jim. Where can we find out more information about the book and stay in touch with the other things involved with so more information is Jim Mckelvey Dot Com? I Apologize I don't use social media Very very well or very often But Jim Mckelvey dot com. Is THE PLACE. Where all information on the book you can get. The Free Comic Book will be there and I guess my final word is. This is a book for somebody you know because everybody knows somebody who has this. Great potential and disqualifies themselves. And that's really who who the book was written for and I was hoping that if I could get the word out in some mass market which I think a book is the appropriate way to do it That the world's a better place because we'll have more problem solvers. Who are unafraid of new problems and new problems or scary I get it But soft on can be superfund and Super Award. Jim Perfect message to end on an thanks. So much for sharing it with Our audience at the League's leadership. Show come this great great questions and thank you again. Thanks friends if you'd like this episode of the Lead X. Leadership podcast please take a minute leave a rating on. I tunes or stitcher ratings are invaluable for attracting new listeners and I like to convert those listeners into leaders because you know I'm on a mission to spark one hundred million leaders in the next ten years and if you want to become the boss everyone fights to work for and nobody wants to leave checkout the lead x platform with coach Amanda at lead x Dot Org and if you have ten or more managers who could use some binge worthy training send me an email at info at lead x dot org Elliott X dot. Org and we'll talk about getting set up with a totally free pilot for those managers. See if they like it. If they don't that's fine we go away part as friends but if they love it. You've just found yourself a new resource for them remember. Leadership is influence. You're always leading. How are you GONNA lead today?

Amazon Jack Jim Mckelvey Jack Dorsey twitter CEO CO founder partner US founder New York Times Herb Kelleher Southwest Airlines Bank of Italy Jason Freed F. R. I. E. D. Jack Pick Apple
Southwest vs American - The Cult of Herb | 5

Business Wars

27:26 min | 2 years ago

Southwest vs American - The Cult of Herb | 5

"It's the morning of June eleventh nineteen. Eighty-one. Sixteen polished, aluminum, red, white, and blue jets shimmer in the Texas son as they fly in a line of Dallas Fort Worth international airport. The squadron descends one by one. Seven forty, seven maintained one seventy or eighty one seventy or knots American fifty, seven forty, seven. One eight clear to land American fifty. Nine eighty six eight left the morning. This is an unprecedented invasion. No airline has ever sent this many planes from this many different locations to one airport in such quick succession. Concourse, all traveling on American will to New York. LaGuardia. Your flight is ready for boarding to passengers get off the plane. It'd be back in the air and just a couple of hours headed for new destinations. The future of American Airlines has just derived in Dallas. It's a future summit. American didn't believe could happen just four months ago when company president, Bob Crandall executive team told Americans ground crews. They would bring the fleet in and send it back up multiple times a day, a revolt nearly broke out. It's a big shift airlines. Normally, scuba passengers from small markets and much like a commuter train, make multiple stops for passengers to get on. And off as the plane makes its way across the country. Grandma is keen on the hub and spoke model. He and his team believe it's more cost effective to bring passengers from smaller markets to a hub where passengers can be consolidated into fuller flights headed for other markets. Delta does that in Atlanta American wants that in Dallas, but with a much tighter Turner out window American is looking over its shoulder at delta, but it's real target is braniff the other airline based at Dallas Fort Worth or DFW. Under deregulation. Braniff expanded its roots exponentially, but Crandall knows they're critically strapped for cash and Volna Rable to direct competition. So when Crandall gathers his lieutenants, he makes his scorched earth mission crystal clear. I wanna crush braniff I wanna crush all the competition. That's what competition is all about. But Crandall has overlooked. One thing flying to those small Texas cities has put American directly in the flight path of another carrier, the highly profitable Southwest Airlines. The insurgent airline is always competed in unconventional ways. But at this point, southwest hasn't figured out how to grapple with America. It doesn't know yet, but it's about to weaponize her. We're well into the summer months now. And if you're feeling stressed because you waited too long to book that vacation that I have great news for you hotel tonight is an app that partners with awesome top rated hotels to help them sell their unsold rooms, which means you get incredible deals and they only worked with hotels. They think you'll love my friends found out what I did. They're saving hundreds on their trips and finding a great selection of rooms with hotel night. If you can save all this money. Why use anything else hotel tonight is great for booking last minute. But if you're a planner, the mishap is for you to because even though the name is hotel tonight, you can actually book in advance whether you're booking your summer vacation a place to hang out by the pool, spontaneous weekend getaways stations road trips, business trips. Well, this is the place to do it. You can book a room in ten seconds. All it takes his three taps and swipe. So to start getting really great deals at great hotels for this summer and beyond. Check out the hotel tonight app right now and with promo code biz wars, you can get twenty five dollars off. Your first eligible booking. That's promo code biz wars be is e w ARS to get twenty five dollars off your first eligible booking. From wondering, I'm David Brown, and this is business wars. You're listening to the fifth installment in our south west versus American airline series. The cult of herb. A quick warning that this episode contains some adult language. No. In our last episode, American Airlines decamp from its former headquarters in New York for Dallas to keep from going broke, and it's used powerful political allies to clip Southwest's wings. Southwest is confined to flying from its home base of love field just outside Dallas destinations within Texas and surrounding states American. Meanwhile, is free to fly anywhere and it benefits from the industry reservation system designed that no surprise favors American Airlines. These are mighty headwinds for southwest. It's June nineteen. Eighty-one just a few weeks after American has debuted its DFW hub. In a ballroom behind hotel. Southwest is celebrating the purchase of three brand new state of the art, Boeing, seven, thirty seven three hundred jets tomorrow moment. Herb Kelleher, southwest chairman steps up to a podium. Hello, everybody. This is a big deal for south west airlines. These new planes will save on fuel costs, making our already highly efficient airline, even more efficient than three hundred series is also seventy three percent. Quieter. I say quieter than the seven thirty seven two hundred series that southwest is flown since its inception. The audiences chuckling because Kelleher is alluding to grumbling by residents around love field who are unhappy with Southwest's increasingly busy noisy operation there takeoffs and landings at love have more than triple just nineteen seventy-four across town. DFW American Airlines gets complaints too, but in a television interview Crandall deflects the criticism, many takeoffs that produce the most noise come from runway. Thirteen alad DFW a plane. Taking off. There has to make a hard left turn. Iron Nause left turn to avoid getting into the airspace of flights from love field. If we didn't have this one airline operating flights love when everyone else is operating DFW that turned wouldn't be necessary. And the noise could be abated. But on August third nineteen Eighty-one the noisy skies over Dallas full quiet, not because of resident protests are new jet engines. No, because more than twelve thousand air traffic controllers have just gone on strike across the country. Seven thousand flights are canceled in Washington President, Reagan issues and ultimate them. It is for this reason that I'm tell those who failed to report for duty this morning. They are in violation of the law. And if they do not report for work within forty eight hours, they have forfeited their jobs and will be terminated two days. Later Reagan makes good on his threat. Commercial air traffic slows to a crawl, but within days thousands of air traffic supervisors and unionized controllers who did not strike get planes into the air. Again, traffic returns to something just short of normal. The difference the FAA is now issuing what it calls slots, the slots system rations takeoffs and landings, and that limits air traffic. But those lots are being doled out in a way that Kelleher considers arbitrary. The system limits, southwest and benefits American. He looks for a way to work the system and lands on a pretty crazy idea which it southwest means it's totally worth considering. He shares it with southwest CEO Howard Putnam lesson. Howard back in nineteen seventy seven. Before you got here, we incorporated a company called midway Southwest Airlines that was supposed to operate out of midway airport in Chicago and the n we'd bailed on the idea. But here's the thing. It's still a registered airline where the FAA. Now, what if we can resurrect midway southwest to get more slots for ourselves Putnam is a forty four year old straight talking. Iowa new grew up on a farm. He used to fly his father's j. three piper cub over the family fields. He thrives on competition and he loves the audacity of this idea does not waste time file the paperwork today, but the f.. AA tells Kelleher, if he's going to use midway southwest to get extra slots, the Chicago concern has to actually have flights there. Midway southwest is operational, but just barely. It consists of a man flying. Single Learjet Kelleher makes him an offer. I like to sell you are subsidiary company called midway southwest for a nominal fee. Now in return, you'll agree to Lisa's whatever slots the FAA gives you a midway airport, the operator nabs Keller's offer and the FAA issues slots to midway southwest which Kelleher snaps up. But within weeks, the ploy is discovered. Kelleher is summoned to Washington. He's busted. Lynn Helms. The administrator of the FAA closes the door of his office behind Kelleher. Listen, her Mike general counsel's office is really peeved about this. Midway thing I'm supposed to be telling you off right now, but honestly. I think this is Larry's. You've just taken advantage of the rules. Brilliant, but her don't get me in trouble when you walk out of here, I want you look like, I've just cleaned your clock. All right. As Kelleher leaves the office. He scowls in his jaw muscles, tents wants out of the building. He bursts out. Laughing is boy has been foiled, but he's had a good time trying to pull it off. Days. Later back in Dallas Kelleher is in a funk Putnam Southwest's CEO who was hired just three years ago has quit. He has a new job and not just any sky high executive job. But in the movie, the new CEO of braniff airlines company wants convicted along with its rivals of trying to legally four southwest out of business Putnam's betrayal hits Kelleher harder than he'd liked to admit. It's the morning of February first nineteen eighty-two before dawn. Granules running on his home, treadmill. He's cranked up hall and oats on his walkman. Crandall may be three package smoker, but he rarely misses his morning run. Granville wraps up his workout and heads to his kitchen. For breakfast, he opens the paper is stopped short by braniff ad. It's an attack on American. One of many braniff has launched in recent weeks. The two Dallas carriers are locked in a brutal fair war with deregulation. Braniff has entered dozens of new markets over extending itself. In the process. Deregulation also has allowed American to enter many brands markets using low fares to undercut braniff everywhere. The two airlines compete today, though brands at isn't touting lower fares. It's claiming to have a better on time record. Then American Crandall throws the paper to the floor. Bullshit. This is bullshit. They can't touch us on on time performance wanna give that cinema bitch, peace of mind. Crandall puts on a gray suit slips back his hair with Palmer. And races from his home to his office at DFW. He gets Howard Putnam on the phone. Howard I think is dumb as hell for Christ's sake. All right, to sit here and pound the shit out of each other. And neither one of us making a fucking dime. I mean, you know, God, damn what the hell is a point of it. Look Bob. Nobody asked her American to serve Harlingen. Nobody asked American to serve Kansas City and we were killing each other with low fares there too. You know about Howard DFW hub complex here and going to change their right. As no reason I can see put both American and braniff out of business, but we can both live here if we can squeeze out delta. There's a pause in the line, but in wonders, if Crandall is suggesting that they collude to drive other competitors out of business. Finally, putting them puts it to Crandall Robert. You have a suggestion for me. Yeah. Give braniff to raise God damn fares, twenty percent. I'll raise mine the next morning, Robert. You'll make more money and I will to Robert. We can't talk about pricing. You know that. Oh, bullshit. Howard we can talk about any goddamn thing we want to, but quickly ends the call and stops the recording. He secretly made of the conversation. Crandall has just suggested collusion with this tape. Putnam is locked and loaded, but he hesitates to pull the trigger and that will prove fatal. Braniff is seven hundred million dollars in debt and his laid off one quarter of its workforce. But instead of teaming up with American Putnam decides to attack his competitor, even harder he has sorely over estimated his hand. Two weeks later button, Amazon a flight from New York to Dallas, sitting in first class talking to brands lead adman. I'm getting damn sick of American making it seem like they've got the lowest fares. When do our commercials go on the air tomorrow and all the markets here. Listen to this radio spot. People's out walkman and hits play. Normally, American only gives you low and restricted fares when they face low-fare competition. And that's usually competition from breath. The ads help, but braniff is still bleeding money. So it enlists a cadre of well-known Dallas executives and celebrities in one TV spot, Tom Landry coach of the Dallas Cowboys looks into the camera. So join the fight five Ranna the Cowboys due on may twelve Crandall learns that Putnam has turned over a recording of their February call to federal antitrust officials. Crandall boards a flight to Los Angeles to meet with his attorneys. This could be bad, really bad for American. But powerful thunderstorms delay, takeoff while the plane remains grounded, the pilot walks back to Crandall first class seat. Mister Crandall just got a call from headquarters. Braniff is pushed back all its planes from the gate. They're telling employees to go home. Looks like they're shutting down lack. Dan open this door. I'm getting all eighteen months into deregulation. Braniff becomes the first major airline in America to declare bankruptcy. After braniff nosedive American Airlines hikes fares on every route where at once competed with braniff. Crandall has shot one competitor out of the sky, but if he's now going to take aim at Southwest Airlines and other low-fare competitors, he'll need an even more powerful weapon. And yes, he's already got something in the works. Long before southwestern American Airlines were battling it out in the business world Wilbur and Orville Wright, two brothers from Ohio dreamt of being the first aviators to successfully fly airplane on December seventeenth nineteen. Oh three. They made that dream a reality with a fifty nine second flight in Kitty Hawk North Carolina, that would change the course of history for ever. If you've got a dream, it's time to make it a reality. The easiest and quickest way to get started is by showcasing your work with a beautiful website from squarespace with squarespace, you can customize look and feel settings and more with just a few clicks. And if you get stuck or just need a little help square spaces, twenty four, seven customer support is there for you. Every step of the way all you have to do is go to squarespace dot com. Slash be w for a free trial. And if you'd like to support this show, then when you're ready to launch us, the offer. Code be w to save ten percent on your first website or domain that squarespace dot com. Slash b, w offer code be w. Today, conveniences king, we choose convenient businesses daily, and there's some of the world's most dominant brands. I mean, just think for a moment about the last time you used Netflix more Amazon podium is a service that helps all kinds of companies big and small become easy to find choose and connect with with podium. You don't have to be an app or online business to be a convenient business through podium. Customers can get in touch with your business. Ask questions, schedule points, leave online reviews, and more all via text. They can message your business through your Google listing and even start a text conversation right from your website need another reason to try podium, podium users get more reviews more customers and more revenue. In fact, the average podium user sees a six percent increase in revenue just from online reviews. Get a leg up on your competition by getting started with podium right now. Podium is giving business. Listeners ten percent off their service just head on over to podium dot com slash BW to get started. That's podium dot com. Slash BW. It's February nineteen. Eighty five back in Dallas. Herb Kelleher is recovering from pneumonia and trying to muster strength to take care of some unfinished business. Since nineteen Eighty-one southwest is competed directly on a handful of roots in Texas and beyond with a startup carrier called news air as in Lamar muse, the CEO of southwest to resigned. After dust up with company, founder rollin, king muses, son, Mike started news air, but Lamar muse joined the carrier as fulltime CEO in late nineteen. Eighty four. The company was headed into a financial tailspin after years of mismanagement and price war on half a dozen routes with muses al-matar south west. He tried but ultimately couldn't navigate the company to calmer skies. Kelleher gets word that Muser which is known around southwest as revenge air has up a for sale. Sign and Kelleher wants to buy it. He invites Lamar muse over to his house for breakfast to see if he can strike a deal. God sakes her your terrible cook. You're a hell of a lot better. Make it got tails. They're right, Lamar, but let me ask you this. Would you rather be spending your time retired on your boat fishing for salmon off the Bank Hoover coast and seventy degree weather or being stuck here in hot as blazes Dallas running muse air. Honestly, I prefer the boat then the mar- let's talk numbers. They strike deal southwest will acquire it smaller rival, including its fleet of state of the art MD jets. It's valuable gates at Houston's hobby airport, and it's complete staff for seventy six million dollars for Kelleher, a lawyer with no business training. It's defining moment as CEO. He's made peace with an aggrieved former employees and he's executed a key transaction. The company's brief history, its first Akwa. -sition, but Kelleher starting to make an even deeper impression on south west personal one apart from his legal skills and his newfound business acumen Kelleher is well just plain likeable. So he's pressed into service to connect with the public. Kelleher appears TV ads for south west as the airline expands across the country folks warm up to her and his homespun irresistible charm. In one add, he's facing the camera while behind him, passengers are filling up the plane fast. When he hears the flight attendants closed the doors. He turns around and starts knocking on them calling out, hey, Kelleher here, the doors don't open. Now, Kelleher delights in the limelight and being playful. In fact, a lot of the employee's enjoy their moment in the spotlight with a hostage audience on board. Welcome aboard, Southwest Airlines to properly. Fasten your seatbelts slide, the flat end into the buckle and release lift up on the buckle position seatbelt tied and low on your hip. Just like by grandmother wears her support bra. If you are seated in an exit row, you must be able to handle the functions noted on the card and your seat back pocket in order to assist the crew in the event of an emergency. If you cannot perform these functions, please advise a crew member and they will receipt you. And if you simply do not give function, please let the crew member. No, and they will receipt you to onboard is Keller at the back of the plane where he prefers to sit. He turns to his seat mate. DNR flight attendants have been doing those kinds of Hannigan since nineteen seventy-one. It just happened one day on Southwest's first flight just after takeoff Kelleher asks flight attendant. If he can pass out peanuts to passengers as he goes through the cabin, some passenger starstruck. Ladies and gentlemen, we have an intern on board today who is going to help us with the inflight service, just call them herb because he won't answer to anything else. Kelleher walks down the aisle, stopping to chat with the Lubbock businessman now, sir. Would you care for peanuts Herve? I'd love some peanuts, but I gotta tell you are the ugliest flight attendant, I ever laid my eyes. A few days later when he's back in his Dallas office Kelleher recounts his in-flight fund. The company's corporate secretary, Colleen Barrett. She laughs and suddenly stopped short. You know her. I've been thinking, we've got something really special here with his culture of ours. We have to protect it. Now, neither of them realize it at the moment, but southwest is about to do more than protect its freewheeling culture. It's about to weaponize all those comedic flight announcements and other uniquely southwest personality quirks in ways its rivals will struggle and fail to match. In the next episode of southwest versus American Airlines, Bob Crandall bills the largest fleet in history and rolls out the biggest gun. The airline industry has ever seen a tech weapon that he uses to blast away low-fare competitors and southwest of southwest responds by unleashing the power of its people. From wondering, this is business wars. I hope you enjoyed this episode. Please subscribe on apple podcasts, Spotify Google podcast, Stitcher, iheart radio, or wherever you listen to podcasts, you find the link on the episode notes, just tap a swipe over the cover art. You'll also see some offers from our sponsors, and we hope you can support our show by supporting them. If you like what you heard, we'd love if you could give us a five star rating until your friends how to subscribe to. Another way you can support us is to answer a short survey at one dot com slash survey and don't forget to tell us what business were stories you'd like to hear. And a quick note about the conversations you've been hearing. We can't know exactly what was said, but this dialogue is based on our best research. I'm your host, David Brown. Joseph Quinto wrote this story, Karen low is our senior producer and editor, Ginny lower, is our producer sound design by bay. Area sound. Our executive producer is Marshall Louis created by earn on Lopez, four.

Learjet Kelleher Dallas Mister Crandall Southwest American Airlines Southwest Airlines Braniff Howard Putnam Crandall Robert Braniff DFW Bob Crandall Texas CEO Dallas Kelleher Delta Howard Dallas Fort Worth Washington executive
"Chicken or Fish?" UCAP467

Uncontrolled Airspace: General Aviation Podcast

1:44:26 hr | 1 year ago

"Chicken or Fish?" UCAP467

"Clear. But it's just airplanes. So it's not really this is this is the best seat. Now. It's got a runway in the front yard. Down. When's the last time you actually got fed like anything resembling a meal on an airliner flight? Last time I was on immigrants. Oh, yeah. We'll emerets. Okay. I'm going to say nineteen eighty-seven. Right. See I'm with you. We don't fly these fancy rich. People airlines like Jeb does. When you fly emerets, Jeb you don't fly first class, I'll hill and so they feed meals in. They have they have. Because the flight last forty-seven hours. Exactly, exactly. So you gotta have all these meals, but they feed you like three times. With pretty decent food, okay, and drinks free. So, you know. And is not alcoholic drinks alcohol. Drinks are free emerets gives you not only alcohol hall for every just about every international carrier served alcohol free. Just because I for lack of maybe a better reason is the exchange rate issues. The currency exchange issues, but all the international flights. I've been on the last several years. Liquor beer y always free in in coach in coach in coach. Well, I don't see I, but I don't wanna fly any further. So you know, any greater distances than I do. So I don't I'm not saying. Yeah, you should. That relegation peanuts and pretzel brigade. Yeah. And that's where I usually live too. And this is all prompted by the fact that Jeb you noticed that. That someone has published a cookbook based on United Airlines is. Which? So many things wrong with this. I. Right. You know, so many things wrong with this idea. Where to start either. I I am old enough to remember when even US domestic coach served decent meal. I wanna say these meals, but served attempt at a decent meal may to chicken or fish, right? Right. Right. Right. And the chicken went always run out or something like that. You know, if you're at the back of the plane, exactly. But. And it was never it was it was some people hate it. I remember when they used to do it everyone complained about how awful it was. And it certainly wasn't great. But I've always found it at all intolerable. My biggest problem when with it when it used to exist was that the quantities were so tiny. It was like a small TV dinner kind of thing rum rand, but. But so you so they're calling it the UAL cookbook is an actually I should probably just open the link would not be something see what the link has to say. United airlines. Well, it's in the United Airlines online store. So it would seem that it has some connection. Right. Yeah. I guess is it actually here because I'm the paging. I opened didn't actually hilarious is is United's upscale subscription thing. Let's see if we can find the cookbook here where is it? It's a collection of mouth watering recipes inspired by the United Polaris onboard dining experience with over forty recipes from United's executive chefs and the chefs from the Trotter project now. Waiting Schreider or in description of a cookbook, not inspire confidence. I I didn't see that. I'm not seeing what are you reading this from David description that goes with the cookbook, you have it. I'm not finding the cookbook keep keep talking to open the link it's open, but I'll open it again. Maybe I've drifted you're sure Apollon love with the ingredients techniques players of these culinary creations. I'm not sure about polling in love with techniques unless it sex the Trotter where we're not going there. Yeah. The Trotter project naming something that Trotter project when you're talking about food on board an airliner does not vote kind of tree that I want to take to lunch with me. What what the heck is the trial? I just had to Google. There's a me too. There's a there's a dot org for the Trotter project at some executive chefs Trotter project is chef Charlie trotters philosophical legacy of philosophy which embodies the idea that excellence and purpose are best achieved through service to others. Well, it sounds nice. But we're still talking about airline food here. Well, that's true. Now, you know, if you pay attention to those things or care, you know, high scale food is a thing in first class in some business class. Yeah. Perations in domestic travel. What we're talking first class. Yeah. Yeah. International travel. It's even a bigger thing. Yeah. I'll tell you in my ever since I started traveling so much from day job, which is now going on eleven twelve years. I I've managed to get into first class maybe twice in that time never intentionally always some sort of accidental upgrade, and holy moly. They treat you better in first class. Oh, yeah. I mean, come on this because you give them more money. Well, not me and not even my company. I I know I got I got graded first cost one time because. Mike connecting flight. So I was to flight day, you know, as a connecting flight wherever and my first flight was late. And and and I was going to miss the second flight, and they they knew I was coming, obviously. And so I got out of my first light and made a sprint to the second flight, and I really arrived at the door. I'm sure they were getting ready to put the interesting thing was that the gate agent was standing there at the counter holding a piece of paper in her hand. And I'm kind of running up to the thing. And she says Hodgson, and I say, yes. And she says, okay good here, and she gave me a new boarding pass. And I figure just because they're moving around the airplane while she gave me a boarding pass for first class seat. Instead of my coaches, they had moved you around here. Yeah. Why obviously they wanted to they wanted the coach seat more than they wanted the because they gave that away early and they gave me the first class seat. And like I said holy Moley. No sooner do you sit down and I arrived late, and they still you know, I walked in and hardly before him. They're saying which like something new drink, sir. Which you it's like, yeah. Yeah. But so let's let's this. Let's let's let's veer this around generalization here. Just kind of curious do you feed people on your when you fly? Well feed people Jeb when you fly to Oshkosh along flight, even when split it into it's still too long flights. Yeah. Well, you eat in the airplane. What do you? Sometimes I do typically I will eat on the ground. I'll carry water. Yep. Either way I'll carry water, but I I have eaten in the airplane before the thing that I don't do is leave food in the airplane. I like like say granola bars, you know, in a package or something. Like, right. You know, you know, beyond their lies dragons you. You don't wanna do that with an airplane? You can get all kinds of critters and stuff and right in the food stuff can can deteriorate in they scape its packaging. There's all kinds of issues. So that's one of you know, I don't leave knowingly anyway, leave food in the airplane. Sometimes I'll take something along as a snack could be backed potato chips. It could be whatever I distinctly. Remember getting foot logs subway sub before one flight once and and had a soda by the water like that and got the cruising altitude set up the auto pilot, and the started shooting John down on a on someplace that was that was a tasty way. To to get some food. If you didn't have time to eat on the ground, which is by preference to eat on the ground. Right. David. How about you? Do you eat in the airplane occasionally depends on the day, the leg the destination when I'm getting off the ground aband- most challenging thing about eating an airplane is finding a place to put the server when I don't need her. Okay. Her him come on. It's a brave new world. So okay. And you guys are. I mean, I'm asking you guys these questions because you guys are the long distance flyers when I fly it's almost always short I fly for the purpose of eating at the desert. There's that. Also, you know, so my usual, my usual were flying from which ital- back to the east coast likely did so many times. Happe- peanut butter sandwich. Couple of bottles of water. A protein bar that that that will get me through that day. But then I'm going to be ravenous when I get on the ground and usually already have something picked out lined up and and set to go from the airport when they pick me up to the restaurant. Yeah now. Yeah. The subject of now, the subject of eating food on the airplane will come up probably later in this episode or. But let me ask you about water so water now on having water on board is not simply a a luxury. Right. I mean, it can be a safety thing. And so do how do you do you do anything in particular, stay hydrated? I guess is my question, and let me give you some context before you answer the question. I was watching a YouTube video recently of somebody who was documenting a long Ishmaelite that they went on a three or four hour flight that they they went in there plane, and and it was an interesting video contained a lot of information a lot of things. But one thing I caught my attention was that when the person arrived sort of in range, and I'm making finger quotes, you know. It's like. You know, forty five or sixty minutes out from destination. The person was chatting with other people on board. And he said, okay, I've reached a name for it. I forget what it was now. But he basically this was the window within which he allowed himself to drink. So that he wouldn't necessarily have to use the bathroom flight. See what I'm getting out here. Yeah. He was reluctant to drink water during the early portions of the flight he had this sort of window that he considered now I can drink some water. Do you do that? Does that even I'm not even sure that's wise. I don't think it's why I of all sounds like a. A self imposed condition for reasons that only that individual could knows put it, okay? And fine. But I don't understand that being. Certainly not an operational. Decision. I would make. Yeah. If I drink water, and and sometimes the problem with hydrogen, it's hard to tell when you need to hydrate. The. Yeah. The thing and be being an airplane. Is you typically will hydrate? I'm sorry dehydrate yourself at a greater rate. Exactly, exactly. My rule for hydrating in the airplane. Basically, you can't do hydrate too much. You know, I mean short of well short of short of, you know, having a bursting bladder trying to shoot an Iowa to minimums. Stormy night. That's that's something to avoid. Yeah. And then as far as knowing when you're dehydrated, I've always so that's one of the things my early instructors taught me about about flying, the landing flying, the the the approach and landing. He said he said if you're in the pattern, and and you if you're thinking about whether you need more flaps than you need, more flaps. All right. It's like that's how you know, you you reached that point. And I think the same thing applies to to hydration. I if you if. If you're even thinking about whether you're dehydrated, then you probably are. That's that's a good way to think about is certainly not the only way. But yeah, the other the other rule of thumb I always heard was that you you gotta be way proactive because if you feel thirsty they already way. Yeah. You're already way dehydrated. All right. And so yeah. So yeah, drinking water. I wouldn't put it off like this particular YouTube pilot, did well, you know, it. There's tricking water. And then there's sipping in my general habit was to crack open the water bottle. Get about a half, a mouthful and let it saturate the teeth and gums and tongue and all that before I swallow it and put waterway David and then repeat every half hour or so. I'm not overdoing it that way. I'm not going through water like it's going out of style and having to sweat, the resulting impulses. Yeah. Right, Jeb what I was gonna say, David. That's the same way you drink scotch. It is transpose transpose quite well. Well, here's a so here's what we're going to I'm expecting that. Well, obviously for some point. We'll be together the three of us in April for sun and fun. And we might even have some of that time at at the hidden river home. Yes. So I'm thinking we get a copy of this yoy cookbook and do some cooking while we're together here. Get some heavy some good old down-home airline food. You know, I I don't want to go into gruesome be tail but the culinary decisions. The two of you make when you're in Sarasota. Have not. Engendered faith. All right. That's a fair point. Welcome folks controlled airspace. The generally VA podcast. I'm Jack Hodgson come into you from from high on the banks. I don't know I slow and come up with thing to say about this from from the banks of the coach go river in Dover New Hampshire where we got a a pretty good snowstorm over the last twelve hours, but not as bad as the forecasts have have predicted so knock on wood. But but and it is cold because it's almost eleven o'clock in the morning. It's still only twelve degrees here but sat in Fahrenheit. Exactly. So anyways. And I'm here in in our virtual hanger, nice and warm and toasty talking to my two good friends that I there from not at all snow your degrees somewhere near Sarasota, Florida's Jeb Burnside. Good morning. Good morning, Jack. How are you as other than other than? Maybe a little little chilly. Yeah. Let's just let's just get it out on the table right now. What's the temperature there in Florida? Oh, I have no idea. It's sixty early early sixties low sixties. Okay. But it's it's changing. We were having a cold front move through that rain a lot overnight. Stormy weather. Although it doesn't look like a chance to see you. I am headed for Orlando in a few days. So you can be I'm perfectly happy with it being warm on Orlando's a whole nother climate. Well, yes, but it's it's also whole the climate from here. And that's the. Yeah. Everything's relative dead. So I was looking at today. It's like getting into the high sixties and seventies every day in Orlando and the lows in the forties and fifties. And then I go to San Antonio where interestingly in San Antonio, the daily highs or more or less the same. But the nightly lows in San Antonio are much cooler tend to even fifteen degrees cooler in San Antonio. So I thought that was interesting. Out there on the prairie. Yeah. That's what I figured it's dry environment. Because it's drier that he doesn't get held overnight. As what I always found lived in the in the aired San Francisco Bay area. So yeah, anyways. That's my good friend here in virtual hanger is from the air capital of the world, which talk Kansas. Stay hidden. Hi, david. What's going on with you? Kicking back today after. Particularly busy week of cranking out material for people and enjoying the two inches of snow that we got in the subfreezing temperatures, and it's nice run out an errand in and all wheel drive vehicle and having almost no other traffic on the streets. Yeah. Right. Yeah. We got freezing rain and snow and and Friday night and Saturday morning or a little bit on the ugly side for some drivers. And the rest of us not go slow and put the brakes on earlier. Yeah. Yeah. It's. Well, then turn turned into James Taylor song slip slide in a way. Okay. That's gonna say James Taylor, Paul Simon. You're right. Paul Simon Paul Simon. Because James Taylor would be. Country road. Take me. Join that's John Denver. John denver. Lost my head. Sorry. So. Hey, y'all get that. That was my. But it was what's next here in no particular ever got a bunch of follow ups here. Let's see we can jump through these here. A couple episodes ago when I was last episode of the road before we talked about that aero Mexico's seven thirty seven that hit something on approach to to forget what the airport was something like like in Mexico. Most everybody think it was a drone eh. Just an interesting little trivia tidbit here. That's come out since then there's a story. A blog post from something called bayou renaissance, man. And do they? Yeah. By you renaissance, man. Okay. Fancy way of saying. No, that'd be Nauruans me. Not be Louisiana, man. Not a Florida man, anyways what he is observing. I'm going to kind of take with you know, some sort of grain of salt that it's true or with some faith that it's true. They looked at the flight track of this era Mexico flight, and apparently it didn't do what you would consider a sort of straight shot into to its destination airport. It actually got vectored up along the Mexico US border for a while. Through an area. That is notorious apparently, according to blog post anyways for drug runners with drones flying drones across the border. And also possibly border patrol flying drones around. Yeah. And so it kind of like, you know, the the plot thickens, I guess is my point here. And I just just an interesting little thing here. I I haven't heard news that they've actually determined. What hit this thing yet? Right. I I've not read any confirmation of it. It's it on both of these that that they talk about. It's always been suspected to be thrown right because they didn't find any feathers. Well, they didn't find any feathers. And and they're not reporting that they found any pieces parts of a drone. And you know, that's the I just have to wonder I don't know, you know, conspiracy theorist in me says they're not tell them everything. I haven't seen this picture. The picture that's part of this. By you renaissance, man. Posting is an angle of the nose cone of this seven thirty seven that I hadn't seen before. And it's hard to imagine that something hit this nose and did this much damage, and none of the debris stayed with the airplane. That's the part that just amazes me. There's a recent recent being in the last year so video I believe it was done by Embry riddle. No. Maybe it was done by Baril. But they basically fired a. A common consumer grade drown at a Mooney wing. Edge Moonies leading edge muni wing leading edge and they filmed in an ultra fast speeds. So they could slow it down. And I looked at it. I've taken I'm used some stills from it. The this consumer grade drown just gets an eyelid. Okay. The whole punched in the Mooney wing is not unlike this whole shown in the front of this Boeing, so certainly it appears that something firm hard struck this. And it doesn't appear that it was, you know, a bird because it doesn't it doesn't appear to be organic is there's no blood. There's no rent rent remains. I'm sure there were there are were some pieces of whatever hit that remain behind. Why we don't know what those pieces represent is something else. Yeah. So anyway, does does sound like to me they got to low on approach and hit a border patrol. Yeah. Or or a drug drug mule drone? But. Yeah, something like that. I mean, if they hit a C P P C P C BP drone. That that makes the mystery really even more juicy because. That the border patrol people should have come forward if they lost drone. All right. That's what they want you to think. Well, and that's where I'm now I'm getting coming back around now to my they're not telling us everything question, you know. So anyways. All right. Well, if we hear anything more, we'll talk more about this. But that's that's all I just wanted to point out that somebody looked flight track. And and it kind of went over, you know, a an area that you can kind of let your magic Asian run while sure. Yeah. Okay. All right. Okay. New subject another follow up here. Last episode. I called attention to a project. I think is very very cool. It's a project that's being done by the airplane. Geeks podcast where they have created an online database of airport restaurants. And I thought it was a good project. And I it is a good project and just a quick follow up is that I heard from from next flight of the airplane geeks podcast, and and he thanks for mentioning the project, and and and told me little bit about it said, they have in fact, gotten apparently, it's not as long running project as I as I thought as relatively new, but they say they're getting a lot of of interest in people posting things it's all moderate, you can't just post and have it appear if you post and then somebody's got to review it and approve it. So it's going to contain better than average information. And but he said that they're getting a lot of sign ups. He said they've even seen a few now where someone mentioned uncontrolled airspace in the comments. So that's kind of cool, and and he mostly wanted to call attention to the fact that the link that we gave in our show notes last time, which was basically a sub page on the airplane. Geeks website works, but if you want easier access, there's a dedicated domain, so you could go eat at the airport sort of all run together as one word eat at the airport dot com. And it actually I believe last time I checked it gets redirected to the airplane. Geeks thing but easier access each at the airport. If you're either looking for an airport restaurant that you can visit or if you want to record the existence of one that you know of and or like. So cool project go project. Yeah. Notice since the since our last discussion on this when they added Ponca City, Oklahoma. They've added steer field and bent in Kansas and the steakhouse on the airport at Hutchinson, Kansas. So. I want to look at it. There was none of those who told them about all those. I know, and I believe a couple of Florida ones popped up to because they were basically zero Florida ones when we talked last time. So. Anyways, cool project eat at the airport dot com. Okay. Done that this morning, but ahead of podcast too. I know. Another follow up here. I asked recently about the current kind of status of the old style. One twenty one point five emergency locator transmitter beacon devices, and whether they were still allowed, and and you know, and we talked a little about that. And I won't rehash that. But I just did come across a story recently that reported I believe it's an AO PA link here. Let me open it up here. AARP AARP reporting that that that the sale of new one Twenty-one five L LT's is about to be prohibited. That not just the CEO, but the certificates manufacture importation sale of twenty five and it's about bloody time it's been hard to get a one twenty five. Early LT for some time. Now, the market is gone to the point where they just the price feature benefit horatio's just aren't in their favor. In boom. You know, even if you could find one you shouldn't be you shouldn't be installing deadly gift for us six preferably GPS on it. Right because they're just better. Okay. Just better. So about saving your life here. Talking about finding you and yeah, exactly. A lot of things. We're talking about false alarms. We're talking about general the way the world works these days. So he it's it's funny that it took basically the evaporation of the one Twenty-one five only market for the step to be taken. But. It is what it is. Yeah. So. There's that. Yeah. Yeah. Don't bemoan the the the death of one twenty one five only yell is. It's. Yeah. Good thing. Right. It's a good thing. Right. Yeah. He's good thing. Good thing. Another follow up here. We were talking in a recent episode about helicopter pilot in command seating. And whether the flying pilot typically sits in the right or left of a helicopter, and I'm not a helicopter pilot. So what do I know? But I speculated my my perception is that for the most part helicopter pilots flying sit in the rights fly from the right seat. And we were speculating as to why that might be. And a longtime listener jar head pilot, which I've always assumed as a reference to him having been a marine at some point and check in on the forums. And he says let's see now. Merry Christmas and America's back to terriers first name to Terry. America's pursue Jackie suggested. Several compelling reasons to why this is so that is to say flying from the right seat. However, none of your thoughts are correct. Well, big surprise there. At least as I understand things. He writes, I went through navy helicopter train helicopter training over thirty five years ago and flew Hueys on active duty in the Marine Corps reserves for almost nine years. I had always been told he writes than in the early days of helicopters when weight was especially especially critical due to underpowered, engines pilots, usually flew alone without another pilot or crew chief, for example, we may see recall seeing helicopters flying into the landing pad on the TV show. Mash are the Korean war carrying soldiers. They always flew with just a pilot. He continues the earliest tail rotors were the earliest tail rotors. Now, this is the key point the earliest tail rotors were on the right side of the tail boom. So in order for a pilot to be able to clear his tail from trees and terrain as he flew into a landing zone. He had to. Look out the right door the right side of hook opther and see it. All right. And so. It made sense for visibility reasons for the pilot to be on the right flying helicopter. So that's fascinating. Yeah. He says, that's why the helicopter aircraft commander or hack HAC traditionally sits in the right seat. So there we go by that as much more than anything we came up with in the past. So, you know, they go cool. Thanks. Yeah. That's very cool. So. And I heard so heard from turbo again. Turbo turbos our helicopter, friend listener helicopter and RV, but her turbo lead. And so we toured called me while back. I talked about that on the podcast, then people called him. He apparently you as many bueller, and there's no no fault. No blame here. He listened steps. Odes a little bit after the fact, and so we hadn't yet listened to the episode where we talked about my talking to him. And but he got phone calls apparently. He said they talked about you on controller space. And so he went ahead and went out of his way to listen to it and use it thanks for for the the shout. And and I and then I asked him we were texting we didn't actually talk and I texted back asking him to weigh in on the right seat, and why helicopter pilot thing and I haven't heard back from. Okay. So anyways. All right. We're making great progress through these through through these follow ups. This is great. Also in the forms. A few people have been been inspired by our our. The subject of what we called Skyhawk range that is a a standardized unit of measure in aviation based on how far your basic Skyhawk can travel on a tank, a guess, and they have renamed it, and they're now calling a Skyhawk unit. I'm sure that's you know, in in to the aviation maintenance unit or of solar unit or. Yeah. Well, no, I like him union. So they're talking about this over in in the in the forums trying to Keith. So see we're zehr settling on three hundred and eighty five nautical miles or three and a half mile hours. Rather? I saw that. That's that's about right. I think. The hundred ten knots is up his bit optimistic, but three hundred eighty five nautical is about the the real world range limit of of basic Skyhawk. Yeah. Yeah. Now listener DJ Trente in our current policies in in the same forms thread, defended my claim that I could in fact fly Skyhawk from up here in New Hampshire to Pennsylvania. And he said, I would do it. In order to says, he says, Jack, I don't remember exactly which airport you mentioned in the podcast. But you're, but you're surprisingly to me at least he writes well within one Skyhawk of several Lehigh valley airports with good on field eateries. There you go. Well, and that's a good thing. Now keeping in mind, though, the original point was not about airport restaurants, but was about getting to a full house. And having I was wondering what it was. We were trying to get you to. Yeah. It was getting into a waffle house. And I haven't completed that research yet, whether whether whether there's a waffle house within one Skyhawk of me here, but but I can get to Pennsylvania, which is I figured I could get to the near corner of Pennsylvania for sure Skyhawk and. And then finally airport dude in the same thread. I I don't even know if I understand this. I'm going to try and read this verbatim. And I'm gonna you guys. Tell me if this makes any sense to you soar to make sense. All right airport. Dude writes, interestingly enough, the three hundred eighty five nautical mile distance is nearly equivalent to the distance between Charlotte, North Carolina and Philadelphia Pennsylvania in the same distance covered. One Skyhawk unit of three and a half hours equates to one airline unit of four hours giving given that the proposed flight time by airline is an hour and a half, adding two hours to the TSA checkpoint gate time and thirty minutes baggage claim time, so I'm guessing airport. Dude, spins a lot of time on what used to be on on American now on what used to be US Airways a threat. Yeah. Yeah. Charlotte being one of their monster hubs Philadelphia. Yeah. So I guess it's American. I don't recall. So he concludes right. Yeah. Is it? Is it Merican? I don't know. I think it's American now. It wasn't United was I don't remember. He concludes therefore one Skyhawk unit or s h u can be said to be one point four airline units. AU? Conversely, one AU equals point eight seven S H U or seven eighths of an essay chew SEM lost. Now, there's a good point here. And whether it's a Skyhawk or bonanza or king, air, whatever there's a Arabia's from your from your base that you can generally use the airplane to beat airlines. And if you carrying more than one person with you, you're going to at least match them on per per head costs price, and I always when I was based in Virginia, for example, outside DC. I always said that I can beat the airlines east of the Mississippi in the bonanza, and I could between TSA checking bags all of that time spent in route time on the other end. Absolutely. Yeah. I believe that. There's definitely a number. There's a yeah. There's a a tipping point. That's not quite the right term. But yeah, there's a, you know. Intersection where? Yeah. The personal airplane is faster than the airlines for sure we used to have this conversation with lay people about how we could make DC from Augusta airport. We can make Leesburg Virginia from Augusta airport in a little bit less time than it took us to fly the airlines to the same to Dulles which was just a few miles away. And it never. The conversations were always filled with skepticism, wait a minute. How faster you going about one hundred sixty miles an hour in the jets going hell fast? Oh about five hundred forty seven hundred fifty. So how's that possible? Well, we go in a straighter line, and we don't stop to change planes and have to spend an hour and a half in between. The plane getting off one getting on the other. We didn't have to get early at the airport to go to TSA. So we could make Leesburg in about six and a half hours and air Comanche, and it always took seven and a half, eight hours to get to Washington, National or or Dulles. When it was two of us. It was always cheaper. Because all we're paying all. We're spending money on gas. Okay. That's the Skyhawk unit and final follow up here. And I put it in follow up. It's kind of like a could go either policemen. Anyways, I wasn't even going to put this story. So Amelia Earhart. I, you know, I saw this story, and I wasn't going to put it on the list because I thought you know, what? All right. Poor woman was going to say we beat her to death. That's that's a bad turn of phrase unprintable. The whole whole sub deport Amelia Earhart, and what's his name? Charlie Charlie was that his name, Charlie, Charlie. Naming her navigator Fred Noonan. Yeah. Fred Noonan, excuse me. And so, yeah, there's yet another group of people who who who think they're onto where what became of her and they're going to find evidence David I think you put this on the list project Blue Angel. What is this all about? Well, it's different than the usual outfit that we hear from that keeps going back to the same territory. These folks. Went back through her flight plan and looking at the weather conditions for the day, and instead of assuming that she had gotten to a point gotten lost and tried to go back that she just kept plying on we're on the same route until she ran at a gas, and it took him to a completely different spot where they say they found a transparency a window with a fastener pattern that matches. What was on the lucky that she was flying? Okay. So this is. The same the same goal, but coming at it from a different angle with a different group of people, which is what got my attention. Yeah. Okay. I would be a great story if they actually found evidence, but I'm starting to you know, it would put a lot of people out of business. They ever. You know, I predict I predict that they will find the remains of Fred Amelia among the wreckage of Malaysia three seventy that's what I think that. Well, I always blamed Amelia for being the guy with him Brel on the grassy knoll in Dallas. Yeah. That could be true too. That would explain a lot as well. Yeah. Yeah. So anyways, I it would be a comfort to somebody. If they found these folks, but. This is one of those stories. Yeah. You're right, Jeb, it's like the JFK conspiracy stuff, it'll there's no evidence, but will never go away. Well, if they solve them missing Amelia's. Story then they'd have to fall back on the Malaysian airliner story because that'd be the next big missing not recovered aircraft. And that's the way it's going to be one hundred years from now people are still going to be talking about. We think we found it. There's a we tracked down the the flight plan, and we did the thing and we found an old window part. And we think this is this male Asia three seventy here it is. We're onto it. Oh, not. But he eventually they'll be right. Well, I don't know found Amelia yet and well. Well, we could ameliorate that one. Yeah. Okay. All right. Did he really say that? Yeah. But he's been doing this for twelve years. Aren't you used to this yet? He's a very punny guy. Very funny guy. So this is a snack story here is. So on one level is a cool somewhat. Heroux? Ick heartwarming rescue story about a near national guard unit that rescued three people from an airplane that got stranded on a glacier right Anchorage. Alaska. What am I looking at here? The Seattle times website Anchorage, Alaska three people were rescued after their airplanes sank in snow and ice at twenty mile. Glacier. The Alaska Air National Guard says airman from the tenth to twelfth rescue squadrons lifted a pilot and two passengers Thursday. Their names were not released, but Jeb what did you observe as being the kinda head scratcher? Gyp. Jeb. You're muted. Jab on mute, Jeb. I'm back. Okay. So I was just I don't know what you heard I was summarizing this story. And then I asked what you thought was the head scratcher about this three pow. Going to call the I had to go get a bottle of water. So you were actually going. Okay. All right. So I suffer is this whole thing about the Air National Guard Alaska Air National Guard. Rescuing this pilot and two passengers right? And what was it that you noticed that was a head scratcher about this story? I'm a pipe eighteen. Superclub which is a Huseyin airplane. Go. And that in tandem I mean, but it's got a big baggage thing area behind does. And there's such a thing as you know, a small child. So I mean, certainly possible that a two seat airplane can have three people in it illegal to. But I just I just thought it was curious. Okay. That's interesting. What you just said there? Real three people. You can have an infant under to carried hand carried. Oh, like lap carry. Lap child. There's no way squeezing somebody into the bag. Jerry's going to be legal, even if it's even if your legal weight and balance wise. Maybe if they were in diapers. All depends. I mean. I'm sure there is in first of all I should say the the identification of the aircraft could be wrong to a good bit. Been it could've been a Tri pacer something. That that's true. Mainstream media is never been to get the airplane ID wrong. Yeah. So but. Okay. I was also going to say that we are talking about Alaska flying here. We're you know, they've been known to stretch the rules about various weight issues and whatnot. So anyways. Yeah. No, absolutely. Yeah. Well, the rescue is timely. He was down to a half a pack of cigarettes. No, no. That's the other guy. We're gonna come to that. That's a different guy. Pretty sure we're gonna talk about that one in a second day. But that's a good one too. We talked about the guy that landed not yet. Not yet. We're coming Ellen's neck. Let's go to that. Let's go to that right now. Let's go to that one right now. Okay. So sorry. So the international guard. Alaska thing was arguably a crash. I mean, it was like a was they probably landed intentionally and obviously somewhat safely, but we now have another are awful ending the week. And I put a question, Mark. After that, this is from a story CBC, which is Canadian Broadcasting company. Says pilot seventy two years old saved from frozen Manitoba lake fifty two hours after making pitstop to p the headline folks. I'm just reading the headline. A bathroom break. The story rates turned into a missing person report for seventy two year old pilot who became stranded on a remote frozen northern Manitoba lake. So long story short. This is flying along in his what kind of airplane here to cedar prop plane says it actually says the there's a picture of it. What is it? Way down low at looks like a. Is that cub is that a champ? It's I can't tell from David your resident airplane spotter. Well, the only picture I'm seeing that shows the airplane from way above scroll scroll down there. The different way down. There's an airplane of it's sitting on the snow. It looks like a chan- hang on. Oh. Yeah. Chant. That's a champ. Champ. The Billy doesn't look quite round enough. But yeah, okay. So we're gonna call a champ to cedar. So anyways, he's motoring along over the frozen wilds of Manitoba. Right. And and and needs to take a break, shall we say? All right. And so he decides he's just going to like, you know, go down. He says, oh, look there's a I live right there. Right. I'm going to go down, and I'm gonna land on the on the snow covered ice of this lake. And and go do my thing and then take off and continue. So he did. But then apparently when he went to restart the engine it wouldn't start. He couldn't get the engine to start. And so he was stuck. He was trapped. And he they his his absence was noticed and the eventually set out people looking for them and they finally found him, but he spent fifty two hours out here, and he had some either rough and rugged Manitoba guy. All right. So he, you know, he had some. Skills in terms of surviving. But he didn't apparently have a very very good. Very good. You know, he wasn't very well equipped for surviving on the ice. He had like one granola bar, and a pack and a half a cigarettes is what they say in the story. So this this goes to this is almost a follow up because we've talked about so many of these things. We talked about the subject of dressing warm enough indicate in the event that you need to land out. All right. And this guy, I think he had some exposure problems here. He didn't have an awful lot of food. He almost didn't enough cigarettes. And that's what David was referring to. There was some comment here somewhere about how he he was almost out of cigarettes when they find the found him, and he was dehydrated banned. Yeah. And. Wouldn't surprises me because surrounded by water, and well, he got a fire going, and he had a fire going, according to the story. Yeah. Right. He didn't he didn't lay a fire on the frozen lake. He went ashore like the fire, right? Had some equipment, but it was minimal. Yeah. Very minimal. Yeah. The other follow up part of this is the food thing. We were talking earlier about having. I wanted to ask you whether or not so to the extent, and I know. Jeb you don't fly over the wilderness that much, but you know, I mean to what extent should emergency kit contained food. I guess the question here. Right. Well, it depends on where you're flying. If I was going over water. I would you know have put it in. I was going over water for any appreciable distance outside Atlanta, for example. I would want to carry a life raft. And I would want it to contain some kind of food. Yep. The same is true for a cold climate survival kit, perhaps especially Seth. But there are things that I when we were talking earlier, which may or may not make the cut on the episode. I was talking about, you know, leaving stuff in the airplay, but the kind of kits that we should be thinking about for these kinds of terrain. Maybe you're going to shuffle the in and out of the airplane. You're going to change change how their stock to pending on where you're flying. And what time here it is things like that. So that's a whole different animal. But yeah. As a side of this guy with this guy had some equipment. He barely haddish. Leaping baggy at tent, which is pretty much. They're Canada has federal regulations on survival kit carriage, if you'll really yeah. Yeah. I think they do in Alaska all so they surely should but candidate definitely has their own regulation. So seemed like he was compliant. But he wasn't. He wasn't well equipped. Yeah. Yeah. So anyways, he did. Okay by himself here. But you know. Yeah. So we're gonna call it an off you'll any of the week. I guess, but off-field was definitely off-field. Well, and certainly the one of the week, I'm only just this minute tumbling to the fact that this is his name. I thought this was an adjective describing him apparently the man's name is happy. Happy been Bednarik. Yeah. That's his name. That's not a description of his of his state of mind bait they mentioned Embiid narc is a name. It's an interesting name. It's not common name. My point. Here is first name is apparently happy, happy bid, narc and happy. What he saw what he was when he saw the search and rescue people. Yeah. So I had to concentrate pretty good on staying calm. He he was quoted as saying. I drag my stuff over to the shore start building a fire and was there for fifty two hours. Every twenty minutes to half an hour. I have to go back and into the Bush and get firewood, basically. So. You know, good deal. Good job. And and he got he got I'm curious what happens to the airplane? Now the airplane is obviously sitting there other than it won't start your planes in fine condition. I gotta figure that somebody will go out there with a mechanic and try and get this thing running. Oh, yeah. And bring it home a hopefully, they drug it off the ice before they left it. Yeah. Although they've got a couple of months they need where about that ice going away. It's more exposing to the wind. I guess that's an issue. But how could get it it could seek enough into the ice on a war on a sunny day that you have a hell of a time getting the skis out of the ice. Okay. Snow more. Right. Yeah. Pile up and is the skis are going to get deep. Yeah. Well, it means a hundred years from now they'll be some recovery team will dig down into the ice to bring home this champ, which will. Final year heart on board. I. What's next year? The airlines are we're talking more about the airlines episode than we usually the airlines are are inconvenienced by commercial rocket launches. Yes. Yes. So. There's two things about this story, and Jeb I'm gonna let you talk about the kind of the lead. If you will what the main part of the what is this story. Why are the airlines in on happy about commercial rock? So we're talking like the space x things are launching out of out of Cape Canaveral and others. Right. Well, yeah. Basically the. That particular area of the east coast of Florida has a growing number of spacecraft launches apparently now that might seem to be of great disinterest to a lot of people. But it has the impact of closing Samir space that stretches out east over the Atlantic to air traffic, whether you know, certainly military can get in there, but basically civilian air traffic, which conflicts or I should say you conveniences airliners because there's off a lot of trip a lot of. Even domestic activity to say on one, for example, from New York and other. Yeah. Apparently like England to Miami. Exactly. So so, okay. Sern to the airlines. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Now, they have because they have to fly around it flying around consumes fuel costs Lear lives money, which is of course, their primary reason for being right? Okay. I don't know whether I'm all that. I'm just not just not sympathetic. Yeah. I'm not sure if I'm all that sympathetic either. Because there's all kinds of reasons why airplanes have to choose the route. They choose and this is just another one here bury the leads kind of issue here is that the graphics in. This story are really cool really are really really cool. Folks, you need to find this need to go get a good web browser. And I don't know how it would. It would look like on a phone. So find a good web browser and go to this link Washington Post. Search for it. Or or we'll have a Lincoln the show notes and the really really cool animation. That shows basically the earth from orbit or from space, so you can see the whole eastern seaboard and the whole western Atlantic Ocean. And it shows the area that is restricted by these launch, you know, Tf ours, or whatever you wanna call them, and and then it shows airline aircraft traveling shows there little like little little sperms. Yeah. We podcast failing podcast, you know. And so shows zipping around and it shows the routes that they take when the when the space launch Tf are is not there. And then it suddenly shows the T afar lighting up, and they suddenly have to like all follow this one particular route over Florida, and what is really cool graphic. And you know, okay. The graphic almost makes me sympathetic to the airlines go. Wow. That really is a thing. All right. It really really I, you know, these things are obviously looks a lot more dense than it really is. But because the scales we're the lot of traffic going over Florida during these Tf ours because basically everything that's going north and south suddenly traffic going over Florida when there's not a hurricane. Yeah. Okay. Yeah. I know. So anyways, the graphic is cool. The graphics. Somewhere. I've got something from Twitter or Facebook somewhere of one of these. Aircraft situation display maps. Plotted. We in hurricane Irma came through Florida. Oh, yeah. Shocking. Just particular one show. No airplanes whatsoever. Over the state of Florida. Right. But wasn't there? One of those graphics that that showed how? Yeah. Airline traffic just kind of dropped to near zero the hurricane. But then there was like one or two stragglers that like zipped out of. I forget where all right at the very last possible moment in order to outrun the storm. There was one we talked about it. Yeah. I think we did. Yeah. It was a hurricane Michael fake that hit Puerto Rico. We talked about a delta flight. That I think came out of JFK, and they were literally L F O. The last flight out. And you could see the video or the the gifts that that were available that we talked about showed them weaving between storms to get out weaving between bands of the hurricane as it came in. That's that's hard core. Yeah. So so the story I don't know how much sympathy I feel for the airlines. But the I imagine I feel more sympathy for the passengers because it's probably going to cost some time and and whatnot. But the airlines, you know, what it's crowded space and Lord knows they make it difficult for enough other people that exactly if they have to just just not sympathetic, and I would simply maybe point out that it's gonna get worse probably because well and drones drones continue to get their own airspace. That's gonna make a difference to. Yeah. I don't think you have to worry. I dunno. Kinda depends depends on the altitudes. Mark my words drone the day will come into not too far. In the future where drones are bigger business than the airline. That's the problem with this. This. Down range launch zone problem is now the toots involve. Yeah. Because it's basically surface to to. Yes. To orbit. Yeah. Yeah. Let's face it. We can boil this problem down to one thing. It's public airspace. That's just let anybody use. Well, I know there's one thing. I, you know, does does this space craft even have ADS p. Okay. I got a text message the other day. The actually probably go two weeks ago now from a friend of mine from the events industry who had been in Las Vegas, preparing some stuff for one of his clients at the consumer electronic show, and he had he had left the prep in the show had opened yet. And he he text me saying. I saw this thing while I was there on the show for and I can't take pictures because it's not open yet. But once it's public, I'll take pictures and send you pictures of the sing he says, he says bell helicopter, people Bill helicopter, people are showing off this this sort of drone, the, you know, furnish their neck. Yeah. Tilt rotary kinda, you know, air taxi thing, and he says, it's really cool. And and then yeah. Few days later after the show had opened and it was legitimate for them to take pictures. I received a couple of pictures, and then also saw them in the news as well is kind of interesting airplane. I, you know, and he I characterize it as a drone because I think when he sought the Roeder's were all horizontal, so it's got six electric powered. Roeder's three on each side. And and it's got know sort of a tr- I mean other than not having wings, and and conventional propellers that's got a fairly traditional fuselage in the middle. And. And I think that let's see what the story here. This is story from I'm looking at a story from wired magazine. Bell reveals a surprisingly down to earth air PTACs liar. Wired magazine that well-known aviation source. Yeah. Past two years has seen visions of traffic hopping bliss dis- delivered via spry okay? This. I the lead paragraph is already like making me regret. Belgium's may two thousand nineteen will be driven at CAS after noon. The aerospace company unveiled its own view of the future. The six thousand pound nexus comes quipped with one hundred fifty mile range top speed of one hundred fifty miles an hour, expensive windows, augmented reality, it cetera, et cetera, all kinds of technology anyways. And it's a tilt rotor. So, you know, I guess the theory is that? Well, it's not just electric power. It's an electric power tilt rotor. So you can get some benefits of airspeed that you sometimes can't get with pure rotor driven things. So anyways. But I I guess the main reason the story catches my eye is because my friend was just so jazzed I seeing it in person. Apparently, it's that didn't mute and. And you know, I'm kind of curious to see it myself, the pictures, I've seen it does look like an impressive aircraft. Just a couple of the numbers. Here are kind of resonate first of all they're saying it's gonna why six thousand pounds, which not coincidentally is kind of a cut off for smaller craft and. Certification requirements one hundred fifty mile range. He's all that great top speed one hundred fifty miles an hour. That's not all that great either. But I don't think they think long range it's enough. Yeah. It's short hop. It's enough that starts to make it a real utility. You don't wanna you wanna get from say downtown New York to Albany, New York or something or or even Tamaz? Of course, you can always going on airliner, and perhaps save a bunch of money. Maybe not maybe maybe this is the really the way to go. Save time getting from downtown to an airport, and you know, it's not a helicopter is not it doesn't consume. This is all electric. I believe right. I that's my. Yeah. Hybrid electric propulsion system. So it may consume some jet fuel or something. But. I'll take that as it comes. It's certainly an interesting concept. As I think the article notes, if anyone can pull it off bell has the resources. Yeah. It's certainly not a. Yeah. I was gonna say fly by night. Yeah. Start on the I it's a real aviation company with a real track record. So we'll see it's interesting. They. I presume freeing from the hubbub. This was never seen before this E S. It's interesting show CS to roll this out. Yeah. See aces become a funny show in recent years. It's it's it's not just consumer electronics. It's kind of this technology. You know, it's like Comecon used to be comics. And it's become pop culture entertainment. You think CAS is kind of Comecon of of. I don't know, you know. Electron via of technology. I used to Tennessee. Yes. I don't know what it's become now. So yeah. Well, this all this advancing technology is all well and good. But nobody is yet to trust the. Key stumbling block to this nirvana of. Little air taxis. Taken us to and from everywhere that we want to go. And that's the same thing that killed the tilt rotor is a civilian project. Where are you going to get permission to put it down in land to pick up people and deliver? Well, yeah. That's that's same chill. Rotors tilt rotors. Original. Dream fans dream was to pick you up downtown and take you to the suburbs and land in somebody's yard. All of which ignores local zoning rules FAA rules. So in chill somebody starts talking about how they're going to resolve that to me, this is all just more blue sky. No, I I agree. I agree. And yeah, did you know that it's that there is no place in the city of San Francisco, California where you can land helicopter. There are no approved helipads anywhere in San Francisco. Now, this may be twenty year old information. Maybe it's changed. But it was certainly true back in the day when I was lying in cal-. It's shame. Yeah. I know we don't have some device San Francisco. Hell no, just pull up a sectional or or the terminal chart. Well. But every single potential helipad wouldn't be on the chart would it. Helipads are usually charted if they're in the system. Yeah. Yeah. Well, let's see. But the way back when the story was that Helen Keller pads helipads were explicitly not not approved in San Francisco because they didn't want helicopters buzzing around or something like that. I don't know whether safety issue or noise issue, or whatever. I'm looking at. Well, I just Google San Francisco helipads and very first thing on the on the list was stop the SF General Hospital. Helipad exactly what I'm talking about the nimbies not in my backyard people. Yeah. You're right. Freaking. This is freaking hospital. Folks. It's not like they're going to be shuttling passengers back and forth to San Francisco International. Right. Yeah. Okay. So get first medical helipad in decades. That's octa over two thousand fourteen. Okay. I'm and I'm looking at a March twenty fourteen story from the CBS San Francisco Bay area w k PIX website. The lead paragraph says a helicopter crash like the one that killed two people in Seattle Tuesday morning is unlikely to happen in San Francisco because helicopters are not allowed to land in the city outside of emergency. For decades residents of battled use of helicopters helicopter pads within San Francisco, it's due to noise and safety concerns, major medical facilities like San Francisco, General, and you see s f don't have landing pads. This is twenty four teen. There are nearly two dozen other hospital landing locations around the bay area. The city does allow landing Twenty-nine city locations. Wait a minute. It says landing at twenty nine locations in certain emergency situations so seriously. Yeah. Okay. Are you seeing this story? I'm trying to do on the sexual here in see what? I can smell by who's back. I'm looking at clips back to two thousand seven. Man. I had. Yeah. I do that. There is no helicopter operations. So according to this, and again, this is from twenty well the articles twenty fourteen and now I'm looking at the list, Twenty-nine, San Francisco helicopter, emergency medical landing sites. I wonder if that means not that the helicopters having emergency. But that they need to land in order to pick up that might be. What you? Yeah. Yeah. So. So if you're going to have an ethics in need to be airlifted in San Francisco, be sure you crashed in one nine lick. Right. It's referred to this list. Yeah. Exactly. Right. Okay. Okay. Lighter than this doesn't make any sense. But never anyways. I have I had the first customer for this. Bell rotor air taxi thing, right? Okay. I hear the nexus. Yes. The nexus because I hear that the governor of Florida. Needs an airplane. Right. Jeb. You're the Florida man, tell us what's going on here. Florida. So we had his election last last November here, Florida. Yeah. And this guy I'd never really heard of before Ron to Santa's Republican wins the election. He he's gotten off to a shaky start on some ways. He. Apparently, pre set the stage here, I previous governor. Rick, scott. Yeah. Had had his own resources. He was billionaire before he became governor Florida and he had his own airplane. It, you know, at a business jet. Yep. And he used it instead of any state aircraft when he traveled whether state or personal business how he sold off at state chant off he sold off stay jets because he didn't eat that. We didn't need them. Right. So because of course, he's planning to be governor forever because he's going to be governor for life now. Now, he's Senator that so I don't know if that's up grade or not, but yeah, that's a whole nother topic. So now, the new guy arrives and there's no airplane guy arrives. There's no airplane. So he was flying around apparently on a king air. I'm led to believe operated by the Florida -partment of law enforcement, basically state police agency and where airplane come from. It was seized during a drug bust. Now gets better. Okay. Go ahead. Here developed a catechal problems on a Friday a week or so ago and forced an emergency landing of of the airplane in Saint Petersburg. Okay. Apparently the state or the governor's office, whomever, chartered another airplane to get the governor to his. Yeah. To get to Fort Lauderdale. Apparently. Right. And so they got charged another king air, maybe and zapped him down the Lauderdale. And so I. Something obviously needs to be done Florida is a big state. Yes. Okay. And it's not feasible. It's not reasonable to expect the chief executive to drive. Yeah. Takes me an hour in the bonanza just in the air just to get out of the state, and I'm not at the bottom of it either. So there's. There's another hour. Basically, you're you're like maybe two thirds of the way down. This is this is always the sobering. Part. When I drive down there in the wintertime. It's you know, you drive in you drive in you drive, and you go through, you know, all the east coast, and you go and you find the made it to Florida only realize that you still got like four hours driving. So yeah, I don't begrudge the guy needed near needs. He needs safe and reliable transportation as as the the bottom the last light of the article says, and I suspect you'll see the Florida government beat buying a king air, or I don't know maybe a light jacket or something who knows right? It seems a little a false economy to me that they got rid of the old airplanes. I mean, I get the previous guy. What Scott, right? Yeah. You know? Now Senator Scott wanted to use his own airplane because he was familiar with it in probably had, you know, now you've made a big deal about state excess and expenses and all this stuff, but they stayed really needed airplane. I have my own and anybody that comes behind me is just cried. So yeah. But this like crazy because it's like, so you're pretending like the jet doesn't cost money. I mean, whether or not the state's paying for it, of course, pay for and arguably. They should be paying for at least part of it. That's fair. All right. But you know, it's like he didn't really save any money. He just got to use his own airplane. You know? And I I won't you know. I mean, I was into conspiracy theories earlier, and I guess I'm gonna stop now. But you know, there is it does beg the question of whether or not this was a way for him to funnel Florida money into his flight program. I I'm shocked shocked. I know you would think one of our our. Fl statewide, Florida public servant would have any conception of such malfeasance. You know, present company excepted, I'm not convinced that Florida men most of the time or smart enough to think of these kinds of things c b. That was that was Hodgson HUD SOS. SOL begin baby. Alligators in the mail that seemed like such a clever joke as it was coming out of my mouth soon. Followed by soon followed by me, remembering all of the people. I know who live in Florida. Right. That's called speakers remorse. I know. All right. He's going to be here in a couple of weeks. He's gonna be in Florida actually a couple of weeks by the end of the coming league. It was a cheap joke. I apologize. So I'm not gonna tell you what to do about this. But yeah, sorry, these facts, anyways, these are the facts. So so the Florida government governor doesn't have an airplane. And or got apparently breaks for you know, whatever I haven't seen any follow up on this story. So yeah. So anyways. So we gotta get the Florida. Governor. Would you say Santa's descend Santa's? Yeah. We need to send him off your governor. I guess he is. Yeah. Okay. Okay. Hi, this is Jack we here at uncontrolled airspace are very grateful for the financial support. We receive from our listeners. There are two simple ways that you can contribute to this podcast. You can make a one time non repeating donation by using pay pal. It doesn't need to be very much as little as ten or fifteen dollars a big big help or you can make an automatic repeating per episode pledge with patriotic with the online service patriot dot com, you can pledge as little as one dollar per episode put limits on your per month contribution and change your cancel your pledge at any time. For more information about how you can support this podcast in one of these ways. See the uncontrolled airspace homepage and the box in the right hand column labeled tip jar that will take you to a page with details on both the support methods. Thanks. All right. Where were we here? She'd be getting near time. I know shout outs in no particular order here. First of all chances are through the magic of audio editing. You just heard us tell you a little bit about patriot supporters and how you can help out the podcast and let me just reiterate by saying. Thank you, very much everybody who does help us out and a reminder for those of you who support us at the three dollar per episode or more level get access to the exclusive after show where we ramble and talk about silly things even more than we do on the regular podcast, but people seem to like it. So we're going to keep doing it for a little bit longer. And so, yeah, if you don't already support us at three dollars or more, and and you you want more of this foolishness, that's probably your best bet all kidding aside. Thank you. We really appreciate the support helps support the podcast it helps support us to keep doing this stuff. Guys. What shadows? Do you guys want to do? Give me one. You got. Let me take Shelly. Yeah. Big shoutout to longtime friend of the podcast longtime colleague, Shelly see me here, formerly of gamma, formerly of Adam aircraft. Formerly of Aurora flight sciences to just to name a few Jefferson forgot Jefferson associated with them. Anyway, at least, you know, independent contractor status doing PR and whatnot. She's new director. I guess it's president executive director of necessa the national association of state aviation officials and. We're going to put aside for the moment CEOs place in the in the universe of aviation organizations. But we're gonna have Shelly on sometime very near future. She's good people. She's been around this industry for a long long time, and I want I want to hear more from her about a sale. Yeah. Yes. So congratulations to her on on this new spot and. Good luck. And Shelly if you hear this I know somewhere Henry is smiling right now. She's ham. Yup. Yup. Henry, oh, the former longtime head of the CEO passed away sadly few years back. Who was Henry of her on the podcast? I I'm trying to remember. Whether Henry was on the podcast. I think he might have been we did early on. Yeah. Yeah. I think he was on the podcast way back when cool guy you guys knew him way better than I did. I met him a few times. And he was really really really interesting guy and did some really good work in the Asian world. And as I said tragically passed away too young a few years back, but the work goes on and I'll look forward to meeting Shelley, MS Simi. I got quick shout out. Yeah. Go ahead. Ryan, Amanda, thanks for signing up for the patriotic count. I hope that you enjoy the coming after shows. Don't know who I'm talking about. Okay. Excellent. Excellent. Yes. Shout out to the they're they're going to do this Washington DC fly by thing again currently. Oh, the arsenal of democracy. Yeah. I mean, given the current well, I mean shutdown aside because even though it seems like it's gonna last forever. It probably won't doing this twenty twenty. Yeah, they're not doing it from being another war by then or or the country will have been rebooted. So that part will be okay in any event they did this of years ago. And it was really cool. I mean, it was really cool when he did these this parade of of historic aircraft per military aircraft flying over. You know, if downtown if you will downtown Washington DC over the over the mall in the capital and whatnot and very very cool thing back, then and I can only imagine that it'll get even more attention next time. Now that we have seen how cool it is. But they're going to do it currently scheduled what to do it on may eighth twenty twenty which is like not this spring, but next spring in this would be to commemorate the seventy fifth anniversary of the end of World War Two. So I don't know. Maybe it's not too soon to market calendar. I mean, maybe even to plan visit to DC I 'cause I might it might be really cool to go and see this with my own eyes. The videos alone were pretty cool. So that's got a bad idea. You know, that's a good time to be in DC too. Oh time of the year. Yeah. Did you guys notice who? Took the photo the two p forty s. No which photo is that is that part of this Lancair. Let me look at it. You have been each word flowery Washington DC store. You know Johnson. Very cool. Yeah. Standing see any certainly does it. I I'm not I don't think it is being an air to air photographer. But he does get a chance to ride in a lot of really cool Warbirds. So he has lots of opportunities for this kind of thing. And I usually think of him as as is YouTube channel where he posts all kinds of of mostly ground-based videos of of airplanes, not entering if you're into for some reason, they do be as your planes and try not to take anything away from Fred's work here. But as nicely aligned is those two p forties are even I could take that picture. Yeah. It's like well there. It is right there snap. Yeah. Get out to take anything away from Fritz? Now's a cool picture. Very cool. Pair yoursel anyways may eighth twenty twenty could be a cool moment to be in Washington. DC to to check out these airplanes flying overhead. Remember, they had a the the when they did it last time. Wasn't there an engine failure? I'm trying member the details here where does somebody go to national roll, right? Roll out on nationally. It was like hell diver or dauntless or something like that. Right. Yeah. Navy World War Two radio powered aircraft and and rolled out on on one nine at DCA and got to the ramp. Yeah. Yeah. So hopefully that won't happen again. But hopefully that won't happen again. Or if it does have the same time about come. Yeah. But the parade of aircraft cool thing cool thing other shutouts, what do you got? Somebody want to David you met. Herb kelleher. Oh in a do this now. Well, we're we we certainly want to say a few words I may elaborate on the episode, but we may elaborate in the after show go ahead. He's right back. Okay. But David certainly just say a few words about her Keller. Well, can't say too. I can't say enough about herb Kelleher. Herb Kelleher was the lawyer that helped Dallas area businessman, start Southwest Airlines and eventually very quickly. Herb went to work for south west because they spent five years fighting court cases from other airlines trying to keep them from starting an airline that was only going to fly within Texas. Uh-huh. That was that was the concept. So they didn't need to to get the FAA's permission didn't need to get the. What was it civil aeronautics board in on it because they were just gonna fly interstate not interesting, and well, her rose to be chairman live long enough to be chairman emeritus, and he and the secretary who wound up being president later on they revolutionized the airline industry with the I really truly and consistently successful low cost carrier south. So we'll have more to say about him in the after show but her past couple of weeks ago, the whole aviation world responded to it because the guy was a truly unique character. In addition to be in a business genius. Yeah. Yeah. Yep. That's the sad thing. But but he did some great work and left quite a legacy. Yeah. I I guess I'm gonna jump in with this one other show out, and that is just to acknowledge the loss of another small airport on and I mentioned this mostly because it's in my my stomping grounds, I've never actually operated out of this airport. Marlboro Massachusetts is has forever had a little airport relatively small even for g airport. I'm kind of tucked in amongst a bunch of other things the one time I ever drove past it, even I was struck by how close the end of the runway was to sort of the public road. And I mean to come in and touchdown in the in the right spot. You're going to be pretty low over everything else. And so it was really tucked in there. But it ran for a long time. And according to this new story, it is it is going to close. Let me just see what the details are on this. Let's see from flying. Website hundred year old airport to be destroyed. That's kind of putting it harshly. More airport property. On the ads and tomah. I can't read the headline. What does it say airport property will be turned into an industrial area? There's an old story. So anyways, sorry to see it go, but Mauro's notable is his somew- cap trivia for you here before there was a lookout point. There was Marlboro in the Hodgson family, really. Yeah. Before when I was very young child before our family went and built the place that became lookout point, my very young parents when I think about it. My startling young. Parents had built a home a summer vacation home in Marlboro Massachusetts on a small lake there. And the first house that I knew of that my dad built all by himself with his two hands that still sits there that house in Moro. Some Albro has has that kind of thing in my in my history. And. Yeah. So it's you know, it's sad to see it. Go. You know, I don't know what to say about it here, these things happen and and continue to happen. Yeah. The sad part is. I mean, especially sad part. I if people were to realize how valuable these are this is a particularly valuable because it's really in town. I mean, this is like not out on the fringes where you know, you've got to like I mean, this is relatively close to downtown. This would be a very very convenient airport to to to use to visit Marlboro into, you know, do whatever it is you do in the mall area. But alas, I guess it's not meant to be. It's not going to be in the future. So. Yeah. Yeah. I'm sorry before we saw. Did you see the thing a friend of mine, a friend of mine sent me a text day? Did you see this? Holy crap. This is just cool. He found this new story about how what's his name the mayor of Chicago had announced that they were going to because this is the blanking on his name. He's the guy who was manual rally manual. Thank you. The story was very compelling. Rahm Emanuel announces that they are going to reopen. They're going to rebuild Meeks field in Chicago. Because they, you know realize the they've always known that that was a bad idea. And and it was interesting story, and I'm reading and I'm going, well, this would be really cool on some levels. Or Chicago's version. Yeah. Right. And reading the story and my friends Senate to me, you know, in good faith, believing that it was cool and true. And I'm looking at I'm going. Well, no, I'm not sure if I'm buying this. All right. You know, and then and then towards about the eighth or ninth graph in this story. It makes reference to the fact that the new airport is in also cool thing because it's Chicago this new airports going to have the tallest control tower in America, right? And I'm going wait a minute time out making tea with my hands here time out. All right. That doesn't make sense. I did a little bit more digging and discovered that this. Let's see if I can find it and send it. Yeah. I would. I would. Where is it here? It's it's this friend over here. You know, who you are? And. Let's see now. I wonder if that copies the link go, let's do this. See? Yeah. That looks like a link right there. Did you get that? Let's. Yeah. The daily it's the daily dot news. All right, which was also a little bit of thing. I'm going dot news domain. That's kind of odd right aviation daily. So it's aviation the aviation news. That matters is the little headline here. Chicago Meags field to reopen in twenty twenty Chicago mayor Rahm Emanuel has announced his plans to return Chicago Meeks field back to service as a thriving class delta airport in the fall of twenty twenty and the read the story, and it's kinda kinda plausible. It's okay anything this'll be a huge thing. It's just too huge to be believable just to start out with and then plans call for onfield restaurant. I f e o. Geo and bragging rights of the tallest control tower in North America. And that's where I was going. Okay. Hang on hang on, you know. And so. Anyways. I I'm looking at us going, wait a minute. But now, it just doesn't make sense. Side. Sidebar headline. Yeah. Exclusive Amelia, Earhart found alive and well in Fayette county. And that's how I find. I I went to the homepage. That went to the the aviation daily dot news homepage and looked at the other stories that they are, you know, new Bravo. And it is if you read their about right, and they they play it kind of close to the vest. But if you read their about page, they do say, hey, this is satire, you know, another one from the sidebar another head from the sidebar a PA to award one lucky bastard a million dollar flight training scholarship. Yeah. In their about page. It says this site publishes satire, if you don't have a sense of humor. That's unfortunate. Discrepancy? The experience of acting fact checking gap anyways seems like a fun site. I just I guess I'd recommend I like their opinions, and I'm going to subscribe to their newsletter. Yeah. There was another one here. What was it? There was a there was an Oshkosh FAA. Can't explain how airplanes fly defers to NASA? We're wasn't here. A lot of interesting stuff here. Oh, I know. Yeah. Okay. Cancels twenty nineteen air venture due to ongoing Canadian border crisis. This is I would have a six volunteers to drink excessively. I like that one. Yeah. Investigate this website a little bit more. Yeah. Anyways, aviation daily dot news. Where were we here? I'm sorry that we got distracted here. I got one more quick shoutout. Yeah. Go ahead. Don't be quick. We're trying to make a double episode here. I don't know if it's working or not we'll see time so far so good. I got a tip my hat to the members of the Canadian air traffic controller associate. Yes. Indeed. Yes. Absolutely. This could be an onion story too. I don't know. But go ahead. It's real the cat. Co acronym goes from Moncton and candor those are both center. But pizza for the New York center controllers who are working without pay in the midst of this shutdown and come to find out controllers out in Vancouver. Did the same thing for Seattle controller so hats off to our brothers and sisters in Canada that handle cross-border new the handoffs help keep traffic sorted out for their. Their camaraderie and solidarity with the American controllers who are continuing to work without pay. Now. Yeah. Now, I want pizza for lunch. Yeah. I know. I well, I have a frozen pizza that could cause I'm trapped here. It's like we're under under is that frozen pizza that you brought out from the porch. Yeah. No, it's been sitting in my it's anyways energy, you're gonna have to consume when to keep that refrigerator where you could use leave it outside. You know? This is always been a puzzle to me. Yes. This is absolutely true. Chip. All right. We're gonna come back and talk refrigerators in the after show and making refrigerators. Okay. Actually, I know. By the way, a Hodgson family history. I was gonna say that. Now, we won't say we don't wanna save everything for the after show. We'll give everybody this Hodgson family history. We were talking about Marlboro being lookout point before. There was a lookout point Moncton. You mentioned Moncton Canada, which is up sort of north northeast of Maine is where the Hodgson family is from. That's where my grandfather, John. I'm John the third some people don't maybe don't know that Jack. But legally, I'm John the third John senior. My grandfather was born up in the Moncton area. Actually, a little town called Shetty ack, which is a kid. I thought was a cool word because it was like cursing, but Monckton is where the Hudson family is originally from and still is the Hudson family is still up there. My grandfather's, brother. His descendants continued to live up there Moncton. What else? Why stop now? I stopped now. Yeah. Where were we? I don't know. Hang on. We're gonna list go. We're talking about the shutdown in the after show because it's level to get heated. And in you know. Yeah. We'll see. But. Now, I guess that's it. I think we're done four fork time for time for time. Thank you guys. It's it's it's always fun. It was especially fun today. This was good Jeb Burnside, Jeb for anybody who's been paying attention. Jeb is a freelance aviation writer and editor serving as the editor in chief of aviation safety magazine, Jeb what are you working on very little since the last issue in the Cam, but gearing up for the March issue of aviation safety also gearing up I've got some some free time on my hands not traveling as much I part of the year so gearing up to some other projects for feedlots and kind of that line. Of course, there's always. Sonnen fun coming up and the show be doing some stuff for them. That's they aircraft electrons association. They're a dot net. You can find me both some current stuff, maybe and some older stuff on have web dot com. On a an on line is another outlet, occasionally and generalization news dot com on the Twitter machine. It's Burnside J. They we go it. We thank you and David Dave aviation photographer and aviation journalist in the US editor for London's empire magazine. David, what are you've been working on a lot? I know give us a couple. They current issue. Avionics news. I somehow another round up with a traffic in here. So I'll just talk about one of the stories is on the new technology lithium ion battery that are coming into the market for private aircraft for part twenty three aircraft in that. So far nothing for fourteen boats systems, they're all for twenty four vote. So. If you fly something with the twelve oaks system, did you got plenty of lead acid, batteries and recombinant gas batteries and all that to fall back on also have a story here about the upcoming eighty SP mandate and a review of Evans. I F D five fifty all in one navigator with its own attitude detection system in it. Cool cool, and we're all these things located on the internet. Well, AA dot net for the avionics news ABC buyer dot com for my features there and my weekly business aviation blog, or you know. Of. Scratch your head and do a Google search for Dave Higdon aviation. No telling what might show up. I'm I'm real higgin on the Twitter machine. And find me on Lincoln. Very cool oracle. And I'm Jack Hodgson, a private pilot of freelance writer in digital media producer. Continuing to work on getting moved into this new place here in Dover. These couple of days hunker down to avoid the the storm. It's been a relatively mild Jeff will laugh at this. But it's been a relatively mild winter so far, but it's starting to make up for it today, and I actually sort of unrelated aviation, I volunteered recently to become the shop manager for the electron IX shop at the maker space where I'm a member I've talked off and on over the past few years about this maker space in Portsmouth port city maker space, where I've been a member I've learned how to do welding, and I've learned a little bit more about woodcraft than I knew before CNC routers, and so forth, and they needed a volunteer for someone to kind of, you know, ride herd on and help out with the electronics lab, which is where we do all kinds of things like three D, printing and CNC routing and are doing know raspberry pi stuff and. And all that kind of thing. And so that's something that's new to me in the last couple of weeks and kind of starting to get my feet wet over there. So that's kind of fun. If you live in the southern New Hampshire area, and you're all interests, these kind of things you check out port city maker space. It's a it's a cool facility like like great, many maker spaces around the country. So anyways, you can find me online in most of the usual places of with the username, Jack. Hodgson, that's my first and last name all pushed together as one word, for example, YouTube dot com slash Jack. Hodgson, Twitter dot com slash Jack. Hodgson, patriotic dot com slash Jack. Hodgson, and on Amazon you can search for my e books just search for around the field in the books section of of Amazon and sign up from Email newsletter. You can do that over at Jack, Hodgson dot com. You can also find more stuff about me than you ever. Really wanted to know David was something you wanted to tell us a best best tip. I can give you for a long and happy life is get some airtime because. You know time spent flying is not subtracted from your lifespan by and that's enough talk. And let's go fly and she's AM.

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