9 Episode results for "Henry Dimbleby"
How did Britain get so overweight?
"The. Today. Why Has Boris? Johnson changed his mind about the nanny state and we'll his be strategy were. Remember this cheese Kenny. Vegan. It's just it's just it's just a crime against. Trying minutes. Oh, that's the I make one coconut prediction on. This. Country will be amply provided for. Daily. We've malls bars, but also cheese Chris. Boris Johnson has never shied away from reminding us about his love of food. Last year he rejected the idea of taxing junk food by first poking fun at his own white. Person Talking. And insisting that to be slimmer kids need to. Be More. Carries out but the idea that the government should not intervene more. ABC. Came before Boris Johnson's own brush with death. The seems to have changed the way he thinks about his own way and how we tackle this problem more widely. According to the Guardian's Felicity Lawrence who has been investigating the way that we eat for more than twenty years is a strategy that cracks down on junk food ads and buy one get one free sales is a small step in the right direction. But she knows from experience the might of the food industry and its biggest companies I've come up against some frequently and the playbook they news is really familiar from tobacco, but also from the fossil fuel companies and how they've denied climate change for decades. From The Guardian I'm Gerstein. Today's focus. How bring get so overweight. For the St Lawrence, your special correspondent at the Guardian rates of obesity have hugely accelerated in recent years but they've been rising in Britain ever since the one thousand, nine, hundred, Eighty S. Before that trend began. How did a typical family eight? I think we've changed as many decades in food habits, and if you go back to the thirties, how to draw. When you made the patient with the meeting. A good idea to paint the with beaten up. It sounds we spend three hours a day cooking and they would be shopping on foot shopping very regularly. More attractive and carry so much better on the. Field with. Boil hearing even anchovy make tasty alternative he's got the war period when everything was rationed food was in very short supply and but secretly things change we have policies to really Boost production maximize production in Europe was very, very hungry in America was helping feed it, and we had all these subsidies and agricultural policies that that increase production. You have four more women going out to work. We've got very long working hours since much less time for cooking. Chips Britain's. Joys. And from three hours a day that amount of time typically is now fifteen minutes a day that we spend at cooking food. We tend to shop less often and by vast amounts in one go. We've got television and we've got adverts everywhere bombarding us and there's been an enormous shift towards eating out of the home in Maurice is and towards really heavily processed foods, and where is that left our diets. We've shifted towards producing an excess of precisely the kind of calories that are energy dense, but very light in nutrition empty calories by large. So we we've seen an enormous increase in production a call which is made into sugar and start soya, which is broken down into its parts either for industrial fats for fast food or the protein bit to fed to animals. So we've had this explosion in livestock production very intense, which tends to go into more cheap processed meals. So the problem highly processed food. I think it root everybody accepts of them the industry that we are eating too much over processed foods that's been stripped of its nutrition. One of the places people use his ultra processing. The. Ofa Michael Cohen said. Food like substances. In the badly food by the time they finished. I've been stripped of so much and just within all of that, how important is the sugar we're conceiving through processed food, get sugar, and so many different forms in ready meal you might find seven or eight listings of different types of sugars that we don't necessarily realize sugars, Corn Syrup, dextrose or lactose. So way more sugar than we need, we've have absolutely no physiological need for refined sugar. And a whole glories of the renaissance created. Sugar with about possibly a teaspoon per person per year. So it, it's a it's something that we don't need. We're not evolved processed properly it interferes with a hormone systems some evidence that it suppresses the production of Leptin, which is the thing that tells your full and tells you to stop eating sugar is a huge problem and the whole way it works when you absorb it in refined form is that it is it stimulates the production of insulin which use which rushes into the blood to metabolize it, and you get these highs and lows of blood sugar. Leave you with these crashes and feeling very hungry. So you get into this this cycle where you ovary, you eat more angry. But if we don't need this really quite dangerous substance wires process dude full of it if you haven't got much real food that's not highly processed in a product, you're not gonNA get much flavor. So you add the flavor with salt and sugar just give you one example of economics sold provides flava. Cheap bread or to a ready meal about one hundred and fifty dollars a Tom. If you wanted to put in real spices, they cost two thousand dollars a tonne. So the industry works with the cheap commodity ingredients that that's how the economics of it work. What has this massive shift towards ultra processed foods meant for our bodies. When you're filling up with highly processed foods, you're not eating fresh fruits and vegetables that we know have a protective effect against diseases. You're quite quitely to be over because you don't get the signals that you'll full. We've got huge problem in the UK with a beastie sixty, three percent of adults in England or overweight or obese, and twenty, eight percent. Fully Obese. And I, think it's even more shocking when you look at the figures for children So one in three primary school children. Yeah. Six leaving their first school overweight or obese, and have a lifetime of struggle with their weight in front of them is astonishing and. Processed food is big business. These products come from huge multinational companies. What is it that attracts them to this market what attests to this mark is. This concept of added value if you take a role ingredients like say American corn and you process it into its constituent parts so that sugars and starch. It's an incredibly cheap partly because the American taxpayer pays most of the cost and subsidies. So you've got very cheap raw materials ECONET he sell them to the public for for very much. But if you turn them into something else you start adding to your margins and you get very high margins on processed foods, you get relatively low margins on things up fruit and veg. Is An incentive to process more more. We've got very perverse economic incentives in our food system globally that there's about five hundred, billion dollars a paid out agriculture subsidies each year, and it's nearly always for the wrong sort of food. With a company's aware of a potential health risks of what they were producing and if so how early on with Arafat? I think from the eighties, it was pretty clear that there was a problem with processed foods and health. And I don't think they were fully aware right from the beginning but I think the weight of evidence grew and grew and grew and just as tobacco big tobacco foot off any kind of regulation or restrictions on their prophets and manufacturing the food and drink industry has been very adept and quite cynical in. Various points in. Using, the same techniques trying to sow confusion to suggest the science isn't conclusive when the weight of evidence overwhelming they exploit the fact that long before you've absolutely proved what's happening you know there's a very strong association that's worth acting on but they would always say we can't prove this yet they would do like setup sort of institutes talk about anything but what the real problem wall. To have a research on. Physical activity in calories out to avoid having to say that there's any problem with calories going in their particular examples with things like trans fats, where it became very clear that they will really harmful to health. TRANSFAT is found in baked and fried foods or used for cooking at home in restaurants or by street food vendors, trans clogs, arteries, increasing the risk for heart attacks and the industry carried on using them. But started taking the out of really sort of high end products being sold as healthy and left them in the other cheaper products that were happy to carry on selling to poor countries. Old People are incomes. have. You seen this obesity epidemic take hold in developing countries as well. Went to Africa where the big processed food and drink companies was sort of going in and people in the townships were eating lots more poorly processed food and within the same family, you could find obese children and underweight children. People are so overweight malnourished thou eating that eating bad food at a mayor very often. Sort of the nutrients they need even though the overweight. Basically, we've known abou this as a major health problem. For decades, what British government's done to try to address it Is One of those rather unglamorous things. A prompted this for a long time because it is so huge. And yet, it's a whiz rather far down the list of priorities is to glamorous in terms of policy various governments have gradually tried to do things at usually takes governments quite a long time to get around thinking in a joined up way about food strategy it was by the end of the Labia as they actually came up with some really joined up thinking on. How the needs change the food system actually affected almost every department and you need to think about of transport and how people were able to move around and take exercise you need to be able to think of it in terms of the environment needs to be able to think of in terms of education and what you teaching kids at school to catch. Them Young. And that she had a very joined up report which came out just at the end of Gordon Brown's tenure and of course, gathered dust on the shelf. Okay. So never enough the priority even where ministers want to make a change but. We also have they signed to perhaps from the industry perhaps from right wing think tanks and within government. That this is not really something for the state that it's all about personal choice, how do you respond to that? The problem with that is it so cleanly naught about personal choice it's about determinants of health social determinants of health and you you see that in the in the inequalities, your ability to choose the right thing depends on your income it depends on where you live what kind of access you have to good food. You may love covering it. You've got a lovely new kitchen and a nice house and you've got lovely shops and an independent butchers and fishmongers and green grasses around the corner but that's not the reality for vast numbers of people they might be really struggling to pay the fuel bills. So actually cooking for longtime isn't possible because they can't fold the fuel you could be. Alone to be responsible but simply not have the right choices and presumably part of what takes away that personal choice. It's also what you're confronted with. Say It's amazing. The tempts you into eating certain types of food or whether it's simply the so much more food is processed now. I think the environment is what we call at Lisa Janik creates obesity because we are bombarded with messages often, very subliminal. Sophisticated psychological manipulation from very early age. In snack neatly real nice protector little effort for you need a great deal. So, young kids don't distinguish between adverts and other kinds of content industry knows that and they go for young people and if you restrict them one form advertising, they find ways around it and try and get them in other ways. So the whole environment is working against you and I think any parent knows that if you go to the shops and Factories all at the level that your kids, your small children's hands can just read. A Q. and that board and. Feet under siege quite often time to resist all. ooh, you're talking about this as a poverty I, shave. But is processed food junk food really cheaper than cooking yourself. The truth is ultra purchase food is often cheaper than cooking for yourself people who are out of touch with ordinary lives part politician. So often our in Westminster don't understand that at. The choices people are low income making quite often very rational and some Tim Lobstein did some fantastic sets a few years ago where he calculated the cost of different foods per hundred calories. If you're in a low-income, you've got very little money coming in. You've got hungry kids you need to fill fill them with calories. And he he calculated if you wanted to hundred calories of Broccoli, which would be extremely good for you fifty one. But one hundred calories frozen chips was to P. If you bought good sausages that had lots of Meat Malone Fatima relatively good for you. That was twenty two P for one hundred calories but the cheap bottom of the rain, very fatty full of numbers colored versed with not much meat was four P. One hundred calories Disa- fraction of the price of the better one off you look at SIMILAC fresh orange juice. That's was thirty eight P. One hundred calories time. Compare that with a sugary orange scores five. P. One hundred calories. Income, you have much spare money. You cannot afford to buy something to see if the kids related and if you know if they could attend the nose edited vegetables or something, you just haven't got that flexibility of of testing things out. So so you end up buying the same old things that they used to. Wow So it's twenty five times more expensive to choose. Broccoli. Over chips that is extraordinary. Just sort of assume the buying vegetables and cooking. We'll be the cheapest option. It's. It's not if you're worried about keeping your kids full. and filled up with calories. The has calories the wrong kind of cameras. What does that inequality in terms of what we mean for people's lives it means that people who are low incomes and living in deprived areas we'll have shorter life and will have a much poorer quality life set for example, atoll born in deprived Glasgow suburb can expect to life. That's twenty eight years shorter than another child just living thirteen kilometers away in a more affluent area. And that was the finding from the World Health? Organization. And they commented when they did that report that obesity is not caused by a moral failure of individuals. It's by the excess availability of high fat high sugar foods. Okay. So what you're describing a ticking time bomb, we know the successive governments have tried and failed to address this issue but presumably, the incentive to tackle is now stronger than ever because of the very apparent health costs. We've known that huge health costs from eating the wrong kind of debt for a very long time. We'd know it increases your risk of getting diabetes, which shortens your life and if. Not controlled lead reputations. No, it affects heart disease increases your risk of stroke. It increases your risk lots of cancers and increases your risk of dementia. So that's been known for ages, and now the covert has come along people who Have suffered complications or death from covid I've too much larger degree be. and. If you are a bee's, he's got forty percent increase in risk of dying from covert. If you're morbidly obese, you've got ninety percent increase in risk and the inequalities have been visible at it covers disproportionately hit people from poorer backgrounds and areas, and it's disproportionately affected minorities because that's been so visible on our screens and the figures night after night that sort of the tipping point at last which people realize you've got to do something about the bigger problem and I think it's focused political minds very much on. If we have a second round of covert that coincides with winter, the NHTSA will not cope and anything we can do to reduce the risk of complications from covid because of weight. Is, vital, and Hancock said, if people could just lose five pounds in weight, it would save the to us a hundred million over five years. The cost of not doing anything of now become. So daringly obvious to the public and politicians I've always wanted to lose weight for age in ages and I like many people I struggle with my way up and Dan but since I recovered from current ivars been steadily building up my fitness. Genuinely Boris Johnson's prime minister has had a moment of truth. He thought she might die from covid and he had a very forcibly brought home to him. The himself was overweight and Mutt that was something that increased is risk factor he seems had an epiphany. Coming up will barth Johnson's epiphany actually change how we eat. Why Let's stay. As you say, boss Johnson's own experience a cave has been. Pretty big change of heart. He's a politician who has really against any state in the past just last year. He talked about reviewing the shook tax. He insisted he wasn't the sort of guy. He would bring in a milkshake tax, but now his strategy is pretty interventionists. Tell me what Senate. several different problems to it. The strategy of the crucial things is trying to tackle advertising of processed foods, Heinz salt fat, and Sugar And particularly the. Prewar settle that's fashioned notion and it's talking about taking them online to really important. It's trying to make it possible for people to make better judgments about what they're eating. There's going to be better labelling. On foods and in restaurants so that your way how many calories you're getting from food that you're eating somewhere else than home it's looking at bringing in initiatives on exercise. Trying to improve bicycle lanes give incentives people to get on bikes with with some cash to cover the cost. It's token crucially about the fact that this is really difficult and it's no good being judgmental people really do struggle when you're over weight, it's very hard to get back to a healthy weight given the environment around you just try to help people. To bring that that noted a excessively bossio on anyway I hope we won't this one really to be sympathetic, and so it's talking about GP's being able to send people pool for help in the way that they get help with stopping smoking. How the food industry responded the food industry has a lot of talk about who you know this is categorizing all foods as bad and. I saw a high fat high sugar products include things that fine let the olive oil or the cheese, and so it's you can't do anything because it's not fair. But not just the food industry the other really powerful vested interest in this is the advertising industry and the broadcasters, and we've had a lot of pushback from them saying it wouldn't make any difference that TV companies are putting out a figure that the government's own research into the impact of restricting advertising prewar said found that it would only make one point seven four calories per day difference to a child. That kinda comes to me in the sowing doubt confusion disinformation category because if you go to the report, it says. If that advertising is displaced, which we expect it to be to other places. It would only make that tiny difference. Well, yes but we have been it wouldn't it be good if we could stop it being displaced, just stop it altogether. Obviously the coming up against resistance from big industries. But if the government stick to these points, how effective would it be or is it pretty small fry? off think it's taught tell how effective these measures are I think they're really welcome and it is a real shift that the Conservatives taking it on. This. The moment, there's an absence of joined up thinking that still troubling and I think we'll get in the way of being of them being as effective as you would hope to give you a couple of examples. So with trying to get the economy going the chancellor has come up with this scheme to give people a sub stiff eating out. So on the one hand, you get substantive it going go out. And you can eat out at a fast southern fried chicken place and get money off which completely in contradiction to that aims on the Beastie, not just a southern Fried Chicken McDonald's Burger King Pizza Hut. All sorts of big brand names the the other problem the government's got is that it's a brexit government and its main strategy on getting out of Europe was too quick trade deals with places like the US. and. What the US is interested in in a trade deal from us, opening up our market to its agricultural products, which the EU has quite successfully kept out in many cases, and that means more of the sort of foods that were saying are not good for you. It means more core and more sawyer more cheap meat produce very intensively using their substate crops as feed. So there's a sort of mismatch between different bits of the. Government's thinking on how it runs the economy and how it helps Britain thrive the government commissioned Henry Dimbleby to come up with a national food strategy which trying to more joined up thinking on what we need to do in terms of climate and food security to make sure we've got enough. But also what sort of food we warmed and that's very welcome whether it will actually be taken on board will be very interesting to watch. What you're essentially saying is that strategy would make a potential stop the. Covert has lifted the lead on the dangers of processed food that frankly we have known about the decades but. We're talking about a huge shift in the way we as a country eight shift the as you say, began in the eighties but has since totally transformed what we have in supermarkets what we eat in restaurants, how we think about nutrition and it's ushered in this new age of ultra processed food surely to reverse that needs something much much bigger. It does needs to be much bigger. It needs everything old. How we run. The economic system. which is a big ask but I think the other thing that covered sadness that. All. The previous assumptions about things that were impossible have gone out the window I mean we have had enormous state intervention we have had. Things that make it seem possible to tackle this and climate change. We've had people in Holtom flights that it's something that needs. Hugely, disip and vision of a different world that is possible I think the other hang onto is this kind of food is really only fifty years old maximum we never in all the Millennia of human development. It is a blip and I think it is perfectly possible that it it can be completely changed. Because there's not really an alternative the cost of not doing anything are too high. The question is whether it's done in a managed way. Whether it gets to the point where the health services overwhelmed by late related disease. All we have crisis with food security that drives more and more migration could have. Very disruptive disturbed ways of changing the system or with luck somebody with vision to think for things differently. Lawrence. Thank you very much. Thank you very much. That was the Guardian special correspondent Felicity Lawrence who has written analysis of the obesity strategy. At The Guardian Dot, com do have a look as well as a comment piece by our health editor, Sarah Bosley and from Patrick Butler, a write up of Henry Dimbleby's national food strategy that was also published. This week felicity has been investigating the food industry for. Many years, you can find lots of her work on the website, but she's also written books. I'd really recommend not on the label what really goes into the food on your plate. That's it. For today this episode was produced by list of Kassian, sound design was by Nicholas Cox the executive producers off Phil may not and Nicole Jackson we'll be back tomorrow.
S2 Episode 5 - Leon and the Royal Albert Hall
"Hi there and welcome to another episode of leading James Ashton. This time we talked Moroccan meatballs and musical ICAL extravaganzas. My first guest is John Vincent. He's the CO founder and chief executive of Healthy Fast Food Chain Leon their fixture on many British high streets and are now expanding pending fast in the US alongside. John Is Craig Hassle. He's the chief executive of the Royal Albert whole a landmark London venue of course it hosts four hundred performances in the main auditorium auditory every year and attracts one. Point seven million visitors. You can read more about both of them in our episode notes as this podcast invites to leaders to compare notes about how they run their organizations with supported by Saxton Bam file the executive search firm and leadership advisor find out. More about this press' at Saks dot com. I began this conversation. Sation asking Craig about first impressions when he walked into the album. Well the first time I went to the venue was to put on Romeo and Juliet and ballet of course normally is in theater not in a big space level hall so seeing the Robert Hall and thinking how on Earth will ballet work work here was a bit. I don't think it was great. It works really well and the best thing was the audience absolutely loved. It wasn't ballet audience. An audience of all sorts of all walks walks of life and they had the best time so great. But what about when you go in and then you'll you're well. It was even better. I mean I've worked as a promoter hiring the rabbit hole and also so as a car producer with the whole coming in as the Wrexham. I knew the whole very well. I was a bit donor because I hadn't run a venue before it only run performing. What's companies and I always used to? Well we're the ones that do all the work we make the sets and costumes. We do all the rehearsals. We hire the act of the dances and songs on. What does the venue to vendors turns on the lights off planes? They do a lot more. Because there's only so much you can change the whole it's been there for almost one hundred and fifty years is Joel purpose protect the whole promote arts and science. So you have to put your modern spin on that brief. If you like. It's funny you say that there's actually quite let you can change the great thing with Robert Hall is it's founded founded on the a vision from Prince Albert. who was very clever guy? The German who came to live in England married Korean Victoria. He was a visionary fellow. He had this whole idea. Eight to democratize learning an arts and science and entertainment on all sorts of things which is why he built the Vienna and the Netra Museum and Imperial College and and the Abbott Hole. So now what I WANNA do is is go back to the vision and say what what was Albert doing why that he wanted to build this place. What was it about and so making the whole more? Oh accessible more open more available to everyone is something that I'm really can't do. And Albert would love it. He'd be bored. I channel prints out. Almost we're told his his body were joe mode about you because one hundred and fifty years of heritage you have got fifteen. There's always an element of mission. I think I mean you. You never set up Leon Justice L.. Food did you. So what did you say. Now it turns out it was this. Maybe grammar saying it was to help humankind fundamental journey to wholeness. I'm not sure I quite in other words it out which I guess. That's help people connect with themselves. Each other in the planet was basically. Why why why we did it and subsequent subsequent reading it turns out that that is what most philosophies most religious man's fundamental or human clients fundamental journey so oh? I didn't know quite doing that but I think that's vaguely what we're doing. Sounds a bit grand reference L.. But actually I need to find out more about prince album so I didn't the history So yes I'm where in the tradition. I think I think we're talking at least by the end of this recording there should be the makings of Leeann within the Album Delay Joan. How're you doing on that mission then because it is equal challenge? You're growing an incredible rate I. We're growing. Yeah but I I. I think possibly we've had an in observable terms an impact on others are doing as well so I I often say that actually. Our biggest biggest impact is in changing McDonald's. If I think about some of the sustainable initiatives some of the desire to make food a a little bit better for you create environments that may be connect people a bit more. I think we've had something of an impact on on those Those Houdini Hennequin who ran zero. It was the architect of the turnaround. Here he worked with Steve easterbrook. Who worked for him in the UK is now the global person and then hand had any said anything you see in Donald today until this isn't entirely true love exoneration? He said everything seems that they were trying to change. Just because we stood in front of Karlovy Street and we said this is what good fast food so I think probably probably our impact is being as much on people across the world. Even they were owning six countries. I think probably been convened directing away. But I think it's the question more about us. Yeah we on sustainability. We were well ahead of the curve in terms of plastic screen and as you all of our restaurants powered by green energy where we by the energy which is the majority of been well ahead of the curve in terms of moving away from me to plants. I think well ahead of the curve. In terms of sustainable fishing policies are chairs the Council for sustainable business for the UK government hinder. And I wrote in the school few plan for the UK which finally tried to. And I think he's having some success. Join out food across. All the food happens in a school and that has a dramatic impact the schools of the UK in terms of the atmosphere in schools assaulted attainment. So I think probably Leon is just one manifestation one leg one chap- to really of the of the. We're trying to make more broadly. We're not Jesus but you know we're very naughty boys and girls and in the case of Allegra we're trying we do know why. What is the thing that people are will be picking up this winter? What's the the new food on the hot in using the hot new thing? Okay so I think that we have two things particular popular at mytalk. One is the the new gluten nuggets. So we've introduced and the other was Vegan Burger so I I think we're seeing a massive bifurcation of people that on the one hand want to eat Vegan We've got great after. Say it takes. A DOC is unbelievable. Say Are we taking taking a love Burger. And we're turning into festively. A Ho Dot grout Burger. Because it's GonNa be an oboe but with hoisin sauce cucumber in the Vegan bug. It is unbelievable. So I think I think people are going to be Eighteen and I think that we're going to see a massive bifurcation of people. Like you Jeremy Clarkson on the one hand saying I'm going to carry on eating beef. Thanks very much and the other tribe which is going to continue acceleration towards veganism. So that's sort of the big bifurcating transparency. Next on into the Rota to this a craig. The One hundred fiftieth. Anniversaries is hoping into view the album as well as interpreting you know getting to know Prince Albert as you have done you have to think. How do we celebrate? This added. We get ready for the big birthday looking at the numbers. There's nothing this is not a burning platforms. Nothing going wrong. This four hundred shows in the main auditorium every year. You probably can't get any more in. We can't really put more shares on the staff would kill me if we tried lawsuit at four hundred one shows and that's with four weeks dark for set up some things so when we total weeks entitles a few days even their four discrete weeks. So there's one week for the survey set up one week for the problem so I know this I mean we just saw the plans ends for sex show in January and it has a massive tank of water and a water curtain and tons and tons of kit. Come certain one week. So one fiftieth. We basically creating the high as the coming in and I have gradually changed the mix since I've been at the whole to do a few more shows ourselves just so we can increase quality and we can have control over the artists that kind of thing. I mean. We'll always have of course the proms forever. We hope yet circle Soleil we hope forever lot of the Rock and pop acts but again back on vision we want to have more events going into the future which are about debate and discussion. It's interesting he talked about the way. The Planet's coming in the run-up hold she'd be the goatee space for discussion of these things. That's come and talk about climate change and talk about veganism diets or quantity quantity or a place in the world forum. It's a floor space. So is what parliament parliament. Yeah it was design a Democratic Space London Senate which could move the house upon onset steady. Oh problem with vermin. Yes yeah okay. So it's not necessarily do more about doing better indifferent because I was surprised to see that the science sciences and the mission as well so the planet and so on you can do more especially in the challenge is how do you make a great eight to vent. This is good as the teenage. Trust Week of up councils upstarts Emma Challenge. We have its challenges that everybody wants to hide their overhaul. So it's it's a buyer's market as far as which insane so we're able to to curate the highs and we can say look that's great but it's not good for us and the moment silence on the shows that are on there we can curate but we do want to go more woah towards a debate discussion and the signs agenda is tricky because we need to sell five and a half thousand tickets to fill the arena. Now there aren't that many scientists non-french into the scientists out there that can fill five thousand savings on pluvial permit signs of looking now at an astronomy conference coming up in twenty twenty one which would have astronauts and pop singers who are scientists. So I went named names confirmed yet but there are surprisingly a lot of popstars mathematicians and scientists Bronco on Koa. Brian Cox by may be free and because of the you can hang a lot of things down on Stein that the signs but it's interesting historically online spoke whole right. We had the first public demonstration of electric lighting. The rollout wow winston listen churchill at the first televised address prime minister suffer jets protesting so love walking round because my wife presents the problems. I I love walking around and seeing those old posters of goes right from the problems or Elton John to the launch of the vessel. Yeah exactly so craig you all the new you can still interpret it and push out in different different genres and doing things we can and really important point is that we're not a museum or mausoleum the whole was always a place where contemporary stuff was happening. So we we like to say history is coming. Look out because amazing stuff's going to happen happen. The next hundred fifty years the Royal Albert Hall so we encourage young bands and emerging artists. Me Hey do workshops with. Dj's Pretty WanNa make sure that we remain relevant as a place as the problems have very relevant. People think the problems he just the last night the problems problems whether you know he. The director the promise of brilliant guy came from blind born and he will typically always commissioned a new piece of music for the first night of the promise which is fantastic. NFL young comprises. He Champions Women conductors. He's he's Britain so the problems is great for us new music in the future music but also other parts of the year so your plan is to keep getting bringing the world to alcohol and and John Increase in your take on to the world you know you mentioned sick markets. It seems like there's a real focus on the US. You have to go home at some point the big well. Do you know what the America is. A complete startup isn't it you know you have to have a founders mentality to the homophobes foods kamini shops to open. We opened eleven months ago. And we've got another six that we are about to open we're all in DC also Washington. Yes and Going with wild but we have to just water the plan. As if it's a new little equal say I said look. We're not taking an oak tree from the UK and trying to plant in the sort of America hoping that it will Will spread gotta start not just with the economy with a sequoia tree with the sequoia seed snake oil. Whatever whatever you yeah working with the acorn analogy so yeah but we have to grow fast in America because I think the lines between consumer concepts and how people see businesses he's really blurred in America is in if apple isn't doing very well as a business people that WANNA use their iphones such a nexus access between the kind of how fast you grow? How successful you'll seem to be as a business barefoot people kind of feed on success in America? So you've got to demonstrate growth which is interesting when you know. We're trying to in a way that sustainable but you've got a Nisha when I think about Leon in London where we are. I don't think it was fast food. I think it was convenient food. That is healthy. It tastes good so I would think in in the states you could you. Could you talk about a nation. We separate to the foster. And there's a real potential at holy owning that or do you use franchisees. Initially were wholly owning because we wanted to be able to say control. I don't think I'm ever to to do our best to wrap. Our arms around demonstrated franchisees that we can do it because that was my next question is is you know I was crazy for you. Coming surprised you only have I think fifty old outlets in the UK seems to be all the right street corners. But then you go to the states and then you really have to work out. I guess to preserve this culture. You've nurtured. How'd how'd you do so? I think you do it by having Someone like Nikki who we do have who's had people who has done here who can re read replicate the culture as Steve Head. The is an amazing guy from the point of view of coaching positively with reputation him. He's gone over there. So you know we. We take in the expense required to really invest vest locally. But then you have to recognize. I think that the cover of Vogue magazine look different in India. Different from how does in the UK doesn't America so in having the same brand positioning. You actually need to adapt how you look at the context and the soil changes that Ashley. Actually the plant is going to grow up different. So that's why I'm constantly trying to work how what needs to be replicated because it's Liam or what needs to change because Leon in the American environment needs to look like this so that's that's that's the magic cannot that's the kind of magic formula is important trying to understand can still be fun. The bigger you get because of your about revenue is about one hundred million at the moment and your you've been growing at twenty five percent still be fun. Can you still taste all the new menu items and all that stuff or does it have to become muscle it I find as a disruptor and we just into this exit sort of work with Come from chemistry of three communities of disrupters scaling doesn executor's and the scale is from the ones that missed out because they somehow look a bit boring. We've understood Actually as we grow me as a disruptor having more scales scales around me actually makes me perform better on a bigger stage if I can use the an album on not stuck in A. I'm not stuck in the provincial theatre. Almost all overhaul so for me the leverage I get from having the scale that I have is actually more liberated rates in the is constraining at the moment who knows what's down the road for the moment. Having a fantastic had marketing had food helps etc.. He's actually she quite liberating to me to have a skate. Those scales working with me. That was far better than your tree. Analogy I'll thank. I come back to you is. They're fun in allowed in the organizations that you run me. What is your style of leadership? I try to as much as possible. Keep my hands out of the the the business I try and lead the team. It's tricky when you come from not prophets in smaller companies. We used to organizing the tour during the marketing. Now Short. Same John You you want to get your hands dirty. But you've got to trust your team so I think the trick is hire people that you trust as you're saying and let them do their job. Obviously we'll always have a view but just trying to let them do the job and and also accept that. I'm not always right. Sometimes it's subjective and it has to be fun we putting on shows ultimately uh-huh and in the past I've put on shows that's my that's my job and that's to entertain people and educate my surprise at many entertained. So if it's not fun something's going wrong. I think people associate she ate a seriousness with belts Jillian. We need a serious platt an aggressive business plan Jordan amazing for but actually there's there's sort of a mixed view on the on the alcohol and you referred to previous interviews. I mean people do associated with a great night out the big extravaganza and so on. But it's quite an intimidating building and people would necessarily wandering there for coffee in the middle of the day. I think is something you'll trying to trying to change that I mean and we. I'm working with a very imposing Victorian building with twelve doors. I challenge is to find money before you like. It doesn't matter. It's a part of the plan I'm working on now. Is this again. Back to the democratisation principles of Prince Albert. I opened the building up so actually opened the doors during the day. Come in for a coffee for church. There's exactly Make the ground floor gallery show off the archive and common enjoy. It do the workshops and bringing lots more kids and involve the local community. And so we're doing a lot of work in that area operationally in programming wise As she wanted to do with the BBC which is fantastic. I uncalled relaxed Prom where we do a concert with an orchestra and it's for people with autism children and we say to the audience. He may make as much noise was Eli brings friends the the stewards down the doors in case anyone's free except for that don't freak out because their music is brilliant and and I get letters from from parents. I was always terrified to bring my autistic son onto a concert because he makes too much noise. A came along with Robert Hall had the time I felt innovator comes normally think goodness Joel. philosophically is really important back to you. John what's the thing. What's the thing we really worry about? The could go wrong. Something about supply chain or whatever. Just not worry I worry about. I really worry about food safety and allergies and obvious obvious reasons these papers in the last couple of years. You'd work out why I'm so concerned about it. I'm concerned about it because unfortunately distri however much you Focus on safety issue number one priority. it's not you things this guy role and so I've got in trouble six months or so ago what I was saying. You know what Maybe he's actually. He'll the things that we do at Leland to make Kosovo as safe as possible please come audit them yourself. Please come and share your thoughts on them. Hey the things that still can go wrong any system and I think I need to be able to communicate it to everybody that there are still things that can go roaming any well money system and um so I I I. I sincerely lie awake at night worrying about that. That kind of thing. I would say having having been played hall in someone coming to somewhere like Leonardo swear And and having having an allergic reaction. That's probably the thing that I worry about most. Okay Craig well we live and die by I think all the NPS net promoter score. So we we do this qualitative the questionnaire after you come into your show and we ask you about the show we ask you about the toilets about the food about the way you were treated. How comfortable is your seat was hot or cold enough in How is the sound everything and we tracked that every every performance and we will use that to improve the sound or improve? The restaurants improves the toilets and for whatever we can do. Interestingly since I've been at two and a half years Rick Ashley has scored the highest on the NPS highs in the toilets as a as a complete nightmare going to give him up. All your good value. John would you recommend me to a friend would do you in the next booth like that. Yeah that's that's the thing John. Let's go back to the beginning. If I could. And the most interesting thing I've discovered about going I was involved in the creation of that promote score pain. I really love it. It's very hard I should say it's interesting isn't it of Seventies. Actually quite good is there. It's not seventy percent. No no no. No it's off off the detractors. Does you take away the neutral people who take the bottom six you take away the you take neutral post and it's the the netting off of the positive and negative and it's really fussing back to the question John. I mean being in the beginning of net promoters score. And you've you've married very well you so I was gonna say back in time. Huron can I call them. Discos listen very clever. Join US on your website. It's always it's it's you not only not only did them with another overachiever. Richard Reid from innocent drinks. Yeah did we start with rent co please I I think I was. I think from him I was an officer and he was. He ran the boiler era which was the mistaken that we do something called. Please together do you never say. Never say never my Vince Comey did a GIG. Richard Branson Yeah it was really proud of it but yeah these events they will everyone in the Europe of us who jumping up and down to come on. Eileen by DIXIES OF SOFT cell forming tainted the southernly here at university it was the switch went on and dance music suddenly probably one thousand nine hundred. Don't replace decks so we had this terrible event which passion P. A. S. H.. Ed there was free pizza literally. We had a DJ all the work between turned ended up free pizza pissed off. We were left with an empty docile. So we we change that to please And it was fortunately growing success and then I had an incident production company where we did a big dons events concerts etc so that was really my other than being a journalist. They'll Bailey for my uncle. That was my real first business really. Yeah and then you know via via proctor and gamble bull and consulting in Bank of inches in you spent many years at Bain. Doing net promoter scores and so on and then is it quite a journey to go from being the strategy buff into a leader of an auburn a startup if you like all the way through. PNG and Bena had my business so both were pretty flexible and allow me to do that. So I was still having to kind of do the get-out events be the last person to leave knackered while you load the truck up so there was probably some kind of continuity between that kind of event undoing restaurants however I do think that Yes I remember one night done four shifts in a row. I've done Friday night A double shift on a Saturday Sunday and and the double shift on the Monday Bank Holiday because I think he was away. I was so tired and I dropped this. This trae from this Till and literally every monsoon about four thousand coins and they just rolled under every piece of equipment and I was spent four hours trying to find all the money and then I had to walk home. 'cause there there's no transport and I was thinking you know what there is a difference between consulting running these restaurants and we'll free pizza. It wasn't bad but it wasn't because you you learn to Bain lots of businesses and leaders. Who are doing it wrong and you thought I can do better than this? Sit It down with Henry Dimbleby and decide on startup idea. Yes so Henry and Allegra. I think we were as much inspired by people that were doing. Well I looks took people you know even I never had to plaza. Let's go is showing out because the French economy The guy that wants to go near Anita Roddick who directly a new from bodyshop Southwest Airlines in America per fun at the heart of the business. Even though safety is our number one priority so I think it was probably inspired. By seeing great people I did also think potentially the big business was teeny bit of humanity at times And some of those leaders one entirely in touch with the people who are working in their shops factories. Justin lock it now. Do you think yeah I think so. yeah Would you think I think they that trying harder but I think there's a there's still a division between in sort of the Sheen in the reality if you like so. I think for a lot of leaders. It's quite hard to to really really put it. You know they say this is at the center of our business but I think six quite hard for them to live it day after day after day and so on and I think also this pressure depending on who owns the business has a bit more freedom. I think it's still by the founder but you know if you're on the stock market and I remember interviewing Paul Polman Unilever quite a lot. He said that the only thing that gives me license to do all the good stuff is keeping the profitably shareholders and I'm inspired by the leadership of the guy is it. WHAT'S THE AMERICANS ALUMINIUM companies? Elko yes who are put some fighting from elsewhere anyway so So little was about the guy that took Alco and the UH and he went. She's first shareholders meeting which was analyst meeting. And he said. I've only hates talk to you about safety under my tenure. Only talk about safety and we're GONNA make the Safest Company in America and everyone's like. Yeah thanks very much. What about capital It's like no no. I'm hated to hedge email. hatestock about safety His tenure became the safest one of the safest companies in from one of the least safe and the share price quadrupled. Because every sleep. Suddenly if you do one thing well you do everything so I do some light that kind of I oh I think takes us. The CEO can stand up to the shareholders and a CEO that can provide a vision for the shareholders and it might not be over the next eighteen months but it certainly is balancing short and long-term term. They go yeah. I read my those in a public environment and the environment and I think sometimes you do get brave. CEO's are either Arctic enough courageous enough to re educate the shoulders. I think it's important that we support those kind of I totally agree with you and and I think that trick with being a CEO is you've you have to leave the vision. Listen and keep the keep up there above the clouds and understand what's going on. Let your team got on with that. But keep selling the vision to your to your guys. I mean I did some work with Disney away from London Olympics and Disneyland Paris the whole Disney Goto is magical. Everyone's magical and they are extraordinarily good at this whether it's the guy sweeping the streets or serving the burgers or operating the rides it's magical. Yeah and they live and breathe. It's it's a really strong culture. You have an easier Rodney stakeholders Craig Abajo. 'cause you you got. The Queen is patron crans. Patrons is wonderful quaint silly but I want to know a little bit about your beginnings because it looks like those a time when you may have. I've been an actor and I don't want to be on the stage recently so I thought ah never get ahead so then there was these roles in marketing and related and the the transformational role is very long title. But you had to bring the Razzle Dazzle Hassle to the Sydney Olympics in two thousand basically. I'd three portfolios and we joke about it saying it basically bunting parties and things which is true so I ran the cultural program for Sydney Olympics Pixel Olympics revolt those fireworks. I well effectively this. This is actually the most terrifying night was we had. It was the night before the opening ceremony and the guy that had run the La Olympic said. He said Craig would do something. Really amazing not before because the whole world's in town right so we did. This event at Sydney Opera House had on driver Celli singing cash carrying the Olympic torch giving it to Andrea. Who's saying in our the go-to Newton? John it was amazing but at the same time we had to turn the rings on the on the Sydney Harbour Bridge and it was an absolute nine hundred. The hold it worked with it and was that was that. Was that the first time you regard as yourself. You're leading a team. Must have been a Ludi people on the ground to make that happen. She was quite a small team. Initially it was a four year Gig we had four festivals and the the core teams any about forty people by the time we got to the year. The two thousand matches the last of the four festivals ahead about six hundred staff including all the contractors and the various companies and so on so it was massive. And we honestly had no idea what we're doing. We're very young young team and there was the first time Sydney ever hosted anything like this. The scale was beyond what would ever imagined so so it was good training that you just. Let's just do a straw poll. What do you think we should do this? Okay let's do that deadline. Very interestingly only in the Olympic Games ever all you had to kind of people. They're sort of the engineering folk. You've made the venues and that sort of stuff and people like us who came from show folk and they kept impressing upon us at the opening ceremony is eleven in September two thousand at seven pm or whatever and we will of course it. Is You know we're used to show going up seven thirty every night whereas if you're an engineer eh wins. The bridge finished. Well let's finish finish thing so Interest to Bali started. That's right that's right so worry too much But the scale was was then. When you're done that did you think wow I've done the ACA I can do anything now? I'm I'm the boss last question. Maybe maybe but then people came to sing for you. I guess I guess I mean it was certainly. It was a good job for me and it did give you a profile beyond just Sydney which Hawaii ended up giving avalon. Probably so yeah. Since those early days of spilling coins all over the floor. You're a fully formed leaders. You sit here today. What have I loved yeah? I think I've learned how useless humans are any in particular. Humans are wrecked by surfing. Shame Anger Gary Insecurity and it's basically job of a leader is just to deal with that to try and get people beyond that so I think what I've learned is that I've learned partly I think Leon and the associate I should work. I've done With the Muslim wing which I have learned last five years is that With their humans are very easily manipulated through what we might cool Ligo which is principles. Shane Principles of anger principles affair and I think that in order to create an amazing organization you have to allow people to understand that and get beyond that so I think that's the number one thing that I've learned. Whatever size jigsaw piece I am I need to be that I need to educate my teams That's who I am. Allow them to be there. Cy Shane Jigsaw piece. And then together we can make the jigsaw puzzle. So that's kind of the number one probably framework. I think I've loved some of that. Thinking develops there around twenty fourteen worth three founders and then you were pushed out in front as you are the CEO So then you have have to have the bigger thoughts about Organization Leadership D. I think thoughts is one word maybe ability to not think and act on instinct and intuition right. I'm probably in the probably trying to over. Think I I believe in it acting as as a leader without an older employee guilty of Creighton to any mental constructs. I think I probably at that point realized that I have to lead in the way that I have instinctively felt as Asian has needed And I think being liberated as a knowing that you are going to lead not according to someone else's rulebook according to what your instincts telling you how should be leading I think that's sort of breakthrough which I had craig tell me about mentors. People who I think there's a number of people Australia and those formative years who really told you to go for it and go for it Well if I got way back to being high school which is an awful long time ago The reason I ended up in the arts is because I had to brilliant teachers who championed championed rumbustious young kids to see symphony orchestras and see dance and theater. And that just I have my eyes to a whole world. I would never have seen same. Where the name Cepeda Jensen and bill clock and they were sensational? These two guys and I I would have been embarrassed. I was doing something else. You know if went for these guys and I still keep in touch with them and they they bring fellas so they were the first two I suppose and then when I went to the opera there's a guy called Donald McDonald who announced his real name. Goalpara Goalpara his parents and he has his mental many many years. Right through Work if you're working the Olympics and beyond as well and it's just useful with these guys and Newport heritage on through your life just sounding boards even definitely. You had the really dumb questions you can look at being stupid about this job or this decision on just something you said before. I think you know when you get to this point. You want to also make sure that your team feel go. Drop permission to fail. Because that's how you learn absolutely screw things up and you can. You can debrief on ago. That was a couple. Let's think about it and we'll continue to nationalism. I mean the perfectionist businesses. You know they take eighteen months for them to fail. Yes that's fine. I'll start now. I expect you to fail today and the environment today when I think about the ballet world ballet when I was running English National Ashok. La We're talking about. McMillan and Ashton is too great and British car. Who in the day most works? They created values the works. We remember the ones that survived. I have all these years. What one thing I've fascinated by and I did? I did put a little bit in the book. Gladys written is about this idea of total quality management because what happened was American over to Japan after the war and said we want we build your economy. Because we've been so so here's how to do do it you try you failed Blah Blah. Then in in the sixties American Biz industry had failed because it was very top down very conglomerate-led and they said the Japanese what you're doing and they said Oh. We're just doing what you told us to do. A really what was that. Just learn fail adapt and then the new mom was in the eighties. We what Japan was doing which which we thought was perfect And so we thought total quality management men. Everything has to be perfect. You Comet mistake now the perfectionism of a Sony. TV It came from the thousands of mistakes has gotten to that outcome. Yeah so I think the yeah perfectionism and the lack of different Joe. It gave me some of these failures than no Leeann. Yes Almonte Golic just something something on the eastern episode failures okay so making many too complex to begin with number one opening a restaurant in Brompton road that didn't work Because it was behind a tree about ten meters out and you the tails. What else loads stuff? So I went to one point. I took the photographs off the menu balls and went to a grid system where you can have everything everything different ways like a sort of your. Have Your Walker meatballs in this this this and have your tied chicken. This whatever. It is so screwed. That up What else have I screwed up? I think I make some mistakes. We will do. We have to learn quickly and leave plum. Maybe but it but it is the these are not these. Don't sound you're not saying. Oh we we're entering. We shouldn't these details. Oh okay yes also. Haven't we saw. We've run out of money at one point. That's a reasonable amount of my money back in removing the house or other things that we just run of the mill loss of so many issue. I do think that I went to see Steve ells who runs to Portland. which is a big American American fall schedule and he said you watch when the code? I think it's all the food tasting heater japodlay. The whole organization fell apart because nothing bad ever happened to everyone in the organization was used to working at this well feted well loved financially seemingly impervious business business. Suddenly the confidence was wrecked in the entire organization. And I think the I think we're blessed that we screwed up so many things. Uh Craig talked a little bit about motivations. What gets you out of bed in the morning to do to run the alcohol? Is it putting something great on stage all well. There's a lot a lot of so I would say my my team still. I've got A. I've got a great bunch. Their assignment avoid love working. They're all our whole. They really driven by it. You know we don't pay particularly well. A lot of our stuff work underground or behind the scenes. They have no public facing role. A lot of the students have to deal with a lot of crap. You know from people But the the culture is really strong and I think that gets me out of bed most of always knowing how those guys work what what makes him getting British public appreciate the alcohol enough. I do do you ever since the rollout. It's a much loved institution the way I describe it. I say you know it's such A. It's such a special thing for every member of the audience and for every artist and everyone is welcome. It's not elitist. We ever designed to be elitist. But it's really special to go there with performing on stage. I mean the. There's a dvd of Adele Dell at the Robert Hall which is the highest selling DVD of a concert. Ever anywhere because it's her at that place. It's amazing in cakes. Yeah when Kate you test. The problems I mean is clear that the artists are not pretending to be emotion overwhelms performing there they really are affected affected by it and I take in donated. The singer literally looks around as I see. I've got to cherish this. Remember this moment it goes back. I think we have alleviate wards now at the eleventh hole and when I first started Kenneth Branagh was given the lifetime achievement award and he was saying afterwards that he was was blown away by the intimacy all his rolled around in this in this space which is which is amazing. What about little? And when you sort of pushing the boundaries hundred under this is a good example. I thought when you took the ballet company to I think it was Wembley Stadium Fidel yes. They shouldn't ballet doesn't happen happen unless there's a sprung floor but this was another rather forget it was it was very challenging the time because it was a it was a variety auty show and Elton John and take that and the remainder of the spice girls and a couple of spots. It's sprung floor down because it wasn't it wasn't possible then it was. Wendy stadium was full of amazing and we did the last bit of Swan Lake and when the Prince Reynolds stage the entire stadium stood and cheered like a football match goosebumps. I was crying. It was It was a great moment for ballet and also princess. Diana was the patron of the company doing for Prince William and Prince Harry so it was a huge on to keep it a little bit of magic of what Donna had loved so much the company ladder and it was it was one of those moments but it was an absolute good physiology. So it's that great stuff. The great the great moments it also part of the danger we kind of touched on it. There's the plumbing. Not just a toilets. This CECCHINI acoustics are working. And there's this excavation and sewerage and a lot of that surge. Recently I think to actually Victorian. Yeah Yeah you talked about the all staff in the past Austin and other thing this gets much credit really but you see quite a responsibility. Quite a number of you'll staff will be quite young to be sixteen seventeen year olds and are you saying that they a need a bit of help to be work ready or you have almost a responsibility this if this is their first role definitely I I Saw US fund the same thing and the people that work with view yes schools do a good job of getting people to get the best possible marks. They can in exams. That's the job of schools. Seems to be shouldn't be but it seems to me and we have young people from all around the world. I'm with their from Britain or elsewhere. I think that once first job has a huge impact on how you live the rest of your life cafe and the I think the relationships you form that age the fun you have or the environment you're in a councilman and for me. They we teach everyone on the joins. Leon we teach them things that are about knowing themselves who they are. We not school who we are. We're not giving a map. The encounter We're not we have a personal unconscious. which is you know created by our environment and life collective unconscious which goes back to? We were fish. That has these archetypes like good bad mother father. We're not talk. Transfer instance. Perhaps when I'm angry with you I'm with your mango. Because you might be my dad all all of these kinds of tools. Psychological tools time management tools team communication skills. And all of these things I think are we have twelve hundred. The people were directly evening with our own restaurants two thousand including the franchise restaurants. I think we got an amazing opportunity. I call it. I call them the fourth emergency services. I say you know who else went the when we have three thousand restaurants like like Walmart responded to Hurricane Katrina better than the federal government because they devolved volt responsibility and trust to the managers You know one the the Westminster Bridge attack. We had one person that was missed by foot but stayed there for forty five minutes giving first day. They to a policeman when the London Bridge attack happened and we were our both our office and restaurants were directly in the Corden. We're very lucky to escape. And we'll bring her Ah We gave first aid. The restaurants without me asking reopened gave food and drinks to everybody for free and I think that is because those sorts of values that we we have those are fundamentally the exportable bitterly honestly almost to do beer or an airline that is exportable spirit. Would get transplanted about the CEO's that do it in the CEO's don't it's better to let your people embodied the Brown how they see fit rather than you invest in an glossy ninety the second ad that says we really good. I just think you tell somebody who funny or you can make them laugh. And that's a metaphor the material in it but I think we after in our industry advertisers know how to grow grow is to be nice to customs willing to come in and give them some food and and then if we do that my priority has the team so I definitely think about my jobs. Look after my team and they dropped off the customers. Craig wasn't the advice that you give to people further down your organization who wants to scale height you have done. It's pretty similar to John. I think you've got to have people. Empowered understand the parameters of their job but also give them a bit of a stretch as well to grow into a role I think you you did you need a bit of a game plan is to way WANNA head I mean. I think we'll change careers six times so he might have a plan not stick to it but I think having a plan is not a bad idea That's not waving end up. At least you keep going the right direction or direction. So I'm curious you setting up the company Liens Your Dad yes. So how did that conversation go. Did you run it by him. I I can't I can't remember running past. I remember someone saying heavy. Still good name for the company said that is kind of. It's an instinct. The best thing I said you know what Leon that's a nice name was my dad's name being flipping all actually. Maybe it's all right and I did sort of gingerly made. My anger was working with us. He told Henry before I had plots up to two. I think it had to come to terms with it but you know what I'm in charge Lebron side of it. I could decide so yes and it was a name name. The film would come out the other one. The assassin one. Okay I have seen they've seen. He's the choices. It doesn't mean anything so you could like nutritious or some exotic European countries have got tangled. Leon Elliot Trans Europ take some over time. My Dad's my dad's imagery The one when he's swim shorts on leave from the Rif in the Mediterranean that became he became a gay icon in ministry ovum. Awesome Street so and he he always pretended to Not like the attention and I'm hoping he did ask about. I'm hope he likes the attention but he always pretended to be very shy. She was actually very sorry. Man But Yeah he went with it which was good. I know I can't remember ever asking which is terrible. Ruble I keep saying look to my Auntie neater because him and my family the woods to Vincent's I if I sell Liam just sue them for the image rights. That's because I've never. I never got your permission. That's a secret ongoing. We'll get the phone and get paid twenty astros capital Paraguay within a coup Asuncion's because it claimed the freemen could meet that Jon Benson Craig Castle. Thank you so much for the conversation. Thank you and thanks for listening to this episode of leading with James Ashton which is supported by Saxton Bam file the executive search firm and leadership adviser. You can find more episodes. So it's on apple podcasts or spotify including conversation with David Sproul. The former senior partner professional services joined Deloitte areas explaining how to tackle the full interest in the big fourfirms. The first is we've got to get better at explaining who we are and what we stand for because we should always accept mistakes will happen but fundamentally nowhere quickly the the we do the right thing and we're just not good enough at explaining that and in some ways we have to take responsibility for the fact that trust has gone because we haven't done a good enough job at dealing with it and if those are errors we have to live from it. Frankly if it's down to bad behavior and organization is just a lens on society so we will have people who sometimes times do the wrong thing. We'll do it and the legal visitation.
Amazing Hotels: Space
"He's actually time on full. Let's go if you run off you hand in hand skipping up the basement. Yeah we're getting. I have some combat. You really easily plant. Based i say you all miss when we when i wanted to us. I'll miss when when they go away to people. I will miss when they go away. I'm gonna miss meghan harry whenever it is today. Decide to cool it on all this crap. I'm really gonna miss them. Because this one this one this pickle what. They've got themselves in a proper easy. I can i can i can. I can't i cannot watch am. I cannot look away absolutely that completely. Can we start with the budget the budget and it's it's great but if we could start the podcast with the budget it looked like tweetie my tax return next. You'll get you mercy. I can see your for the beans to do meghan. And harry and i am too but this is remember we talked about this podcast about. This is the budget could come laser anything to say about it. No take the number of right all of outside. I know it hasn't wherever you about. His leaked all the stop. You started this all wrong. And because benz with a new site is bound to be in. I do know the thing that happened that you care about and i know what was it was it. Corporation tax split. Look to one year in those fine. This is your normally the budget's going to be boring right. The budget is just like a tax. You all they're gonna cost cutting give anything anyone cares about is booze. This great mistake that is always made. Ben came in complaining. He'd say that to the thirty fifth minute if that was all matted ben really worrying they're gonna bring in a for minting tax and to bid attacks in a jumper ejection at tax hawks tact not been esi slash dish on alcohol carpet. They haven't slashed that alcohol. They have bruising frozen the vodka they've tax frozen book they frozen increases. Okay no to the point. The headline thing is what onto corporation tax. Okay and cover about the tax things which is going to cost us about thirty thousand pounds a year right okay. So we're going to have thirty thousand pounds a year less except that they've frozen the alcohol to ut so we will claw back yes. We'll most of that. You need to drink about to detect the temperature about fifteen million quids worth of booze than the next year to take advantage of the amounts of gypsy three months. If then. we're absolutely fine because then the duty that we haven't paid because it hasn't been raised we'll cover the enormous amount of money that we've lost as a result of tax raises. Okay and was there anything else in there that you thought was notable safer. It doesn't the budget usually go on for about three hours. I was just trying my family budget watching session and do a book. I'm sorry it didn't work out like that because we needed to basically do the budget talk about the it and then carries get real giles. All you actually got to write a column about budget you bring it back to the idea. Bring it back to that. Because i think what you're doing is just using this as a stick to beat me with the fact that i wasn't complete paying ten artistic the big stick and the corner has this this so basically just ritchie licorice it. You know she's done this five six minute video funded by the taxpayer about police chief. All the things. He's been great at his personal brown and he and he's really good at having his nice hair and he's been really good his suits not very good at being told them for eleven quite good standing out holding his briefcase and stuff. He's nice and in proportion to you can't tell how short is stand next. Someone else. A bit like stuart broad. Who is the perfect person until the cottam like a normal sized villa forest boris short. He'll so he's my height about five. He's a little bit short of the he'd been one thousand nine stones. I didn't realize that he was so short until they should. Because that's why he's taken ritchie as his chancellor so that he can appear that bit taller and it's why they'll be really glad. The england cricket team look like losing the series in india which starts to find test tomorrow. Because if in the mid one they'd have to be invited to downing street and then richie embarrass would that have looked like little boys. Extend your company hope that they lose but wishy so do all we looking at so what you're saying with which is all over here the next prime minister. That's are you persuaded by the new. Did you see this. Is she seen knock in. What way. Oh my god. He's so reassuring he's just like talking with his voice he's quite i mean look wish reminds me of boys i was at school with and they were just great. They were just solid. they were funny. They were nice. Yeah i like. I like she. Richie rashid is to me familiar. He's a branding thing. On not sure about the sweat sweatshirt with stanford written across it. Yes which caused us which the picture. And a which caused me to go with pedia whether or not he'd been at stanford and was looking at. We were trying to decide. Is it more nerdy stamfor- jesse because he meant to trip there and bought one. Was it worth if you were added to actually with americans do that. Because i thought he was also at oxford. But i'm as he was only at oxford and stanford all came and yale and he would never wear an oxford sweatshirt. Because he's brand people would say that it was elitist because he went to winchester and they've got to try and make it out. They won't stay school kids to go today. So so he wears the stanford thing. Although it's a double block was he's wearing it because everyone's going to know. He went to do doctoral after oxford. So i wouldn't trust anyone with my money. He hadn't he remind how hard everyone at westminster was. And i know how hot those boys worked. And i and i just don't trust anyone who isn't labor. She's with my cash or my country anything. I think he's fantastic. So what's your call. Your call them is going to be our is ratio k. For pm the controversial position would be that. I do think he should because i that controversial the wind is turning against vichy because this up promotion. He's the meghan markle of the dow days bullshit royal fascination. Well not really because we do. You put on the list but not i to do. The budget clenched you need. Just need to you. All wound tight sister. Did you see the. I'd coke thing this coq. I'm with kurkin. He so teeny one line of code bushy bouncing off the wall. No you saw that thing. Yes that i thought that might my heart slightly died but i love a dog. And he's into his lee talking about how much he had. His favorite color is for mexico. Well he still has not obviously and in his mind. He's actually panic stations because google or somebody might think of she done. She has to think so you completely free to say and then he says but then you could see him getting in this pickle because he was going kirk co cook and he's off. I'm branding thing. But not diet coke. And then and then he sort of said and i thought was he going to stand back from the apparent brand endorsement element when he went. I don't drink diet coke or or pepsi. Oh my gosh thinking the whole the minute you're gonna take my whole then subsequently transpired which and there's on twitter everyone who's going tanto and i. I hate twitter. The idiot commentators idiot journalists times guardian. You name them. They're all in their. Okay keep play again. It's the gift that keeps on giving it. Oh he's really who it's not it's really boring and there was nothing there all the left. We're trying to say that. It was far more damning than the militant banana. David miliband backing sunny. Ed and and and do you know the other thing. Do you know when that was recorded win. Two years ago two years ago. Oh he's got so much media training what was not two years ago. He was not transferred the still levels exactly what he's but he was so the point is is that the they have dengue all the way back through bush's entire back catalogue appearances to find something really shit to drop the night before the budget and from two years ago they found him. You're thinking like oakland anybody clean is you went back two years looking fourteen children three corpses do want to be one to carries carries a. She's she's already into doing downing street. The cost of which has been reported to be either running into the tens and tens of thousands or as much as one hundred thousand pounds. Already don't already before the story today. Yes yes yes so she. So they are. They are in. They are up to their offices in alligators. In terms of this refurbishment thing. Boris panicked and decided to set up a charity imitating the same thing done in america. They do to preserve the white house. But the difference being that i don't think downing street is regularly open to the public. Is it going to not get listed. Yes no not open to the public. What has happened public the tax burden to come in. it's been four minutes with boras leverage. We heard that we had that story. That bursts dinners deliver every night. Because carrie doesn't cook from. We saw the thing. I think it's escape that interesting. I don't think anyone thinks that deliver every night but do so in in america make sense because there are there are public towards the white house and the white house is enormous building. And it's home to also too expensive kind of things and they have to pay for the upkeep. Fine downing street is a pokey flat in westminster that that it quite rightly filled with showed ikea crap and stuff from john lewis and carry wants to live with these things so so for example. This is not say any of these things are actually in downing street but just for example the it has said lulu little. I think that's lighter. Little newly little is the is the person it's inspired by hasn't actually come out and said that little has been involved in it. How do they have any notion of her of little verify. It's been leaks that carries clearly a fan of this woman little signers she's respectable designing. She runs her own kind. Kind of italia she bought the last autism rattan weaver's workshop in england which knowing somewhere that turns out bretagne furniture which just happens to be enjoying a huge kind of fashionable bristles. At the moment. She sells a venus ratan chair. Which is inspired by the shape. Only com show up posted in blue velvet. Consider that guess how much you've seen c. Five thousand five thousand nine hundred pounds which were designed to check is like. It's not that much. They do cost that much but not a downing street. Do you know what. I mean down the street like she was well. This picture of Cameron in some topping yellow kia chair with an awful sort of veneer tv cabinet and the chief telling on the talk but the thing is is quite difficult five minutes. This isn't it. Because if you if you do your flat up into john lewis and i k. Everyone goes ooh awfully. It's golfing rose is also common and then if you spend a bit of money on it everyone calls you marie-antoinette my hair for a column for the year was ups could be carry. You don't need looney little instead. Let me make suggestions your new flat. How about kitchen table from camden market costing only five hundred pounds. What's a few scientists in the back of your thighs. That kind of price talk outside with a joke. Took act hooker covered that you have to hire someone to put together which money you could have bought something nice from somewhere else that some lovely wool carpets if you skimp on the underlay then it will cost less and then it will take a good six months for the floorboards to start showing through. But you'll probably be voted out in three is anyway and it'll be the next bus. That's problem Ever down. That was where i was being house. You can probably tell she gets work. Work himself as a good jokes. Look forget lucile for for a property. Cut price of ten thousand pounds carry. Boris ninety set up the charity. I ll redecorate your flat with mice. Just no you see. it's a funny idea. H funnier is for me to say domer- my wife wilders. Then i can do a combination of you and a sort of monstrous over exaggerated version of you which is basically you. So it's like do what you did to my house literally all of this stuff away and not just throw it away but lofted as it goes away on the skip discussing what all that stuff. That's my stuff was nice now paintings which i did not throw any of your paintings redistributed. You had hung every stupid to them among the homeless. You had hung every single picture that you owned on same warriors. No it didn't and i and and it was bright yellow canary yellow. This is an interesting color. What color is this. And he says yes and you said. I don't know the build went to give me. I said you said the builder to the paint shop to pick your paint color. and you comeback. This is what they call. This is my favorite my favorite installation in your house. When i moved in was the fly mode that you kept in the kitchen garden. Rust asterix into the downstairs lou. That was a triumph. You got rid of because it's on hygiene but now you make up room my makeup to different lou to do my makeup whereas my asterix comics. You're at the end of the that people would assume the with this really sophisticated coupled with marvelous house just like bars and carey and and the truth is we fight over. Who gets the downstairs. Lou for asterix collections slash makeup. Yeah it's pathetic sitting there in sam's poof us face they'll be more than me in awe kitchen after a short interlude but find out what i wrote about in the end why no pick up a subscription to the times and the sunday times and enjoy one month absolutely free. Just search the times koto. Uk bullets nash. Charles coren has no idea. I've been promised that this will take you to an amazing offer rather than just a website created by ben randomly containing all my bras mistakes. Although i'm sure that exists somewhere is going to be up to you to find my next idea. Which is the space hotel. did he. the space hotel. They say absolutely hilarious. Twenty twenty seven a space holiday. Right some brilliant. The daily mail kubrick film could become reality and floating hotel with four hundred guests tourists. Who have been everywhere and seen everything. It could be the ultimate new destination the first space hotel featuring restaurants a cinema spa and room for four hundred guests could take its first reservations. Twenty twenty seven. I mean frankly. Or even the beginning to greece by twenty twenty seven mytalk guy for that is conveyed yesterday. Gets off the ground. And there's a picture of it looking like it's called the station and what could begin as little as four years time. Why i would say white bother the hotel complete an orbit of the earth every ninety minutes. Meaning you can see the sun rise. How many times a day do you think this ninety minute. It orbits the earth every ninety minutes. Meaning the mrs sixteen times. Well done well on it. Sixteen times sick gets mike drought. Come on out of twenty four hours. That's going to be six sixteen times. Okay right so you see. It was about that equation. That you didn't know i just couldn't begin to work out back on caper today fun. That's it's wednesday dining multitasking bouvet too much. So it's going to be built a californian company obviously because all the whole of silicon valley's otley obsessed with space. I don't know why accounting of anything more boring. your column could be. How boring a day on the station would be hotels a quite boring the times but in space my god Yes a might conflict with your with your other other hotel walk so as a person who does tv holidays hotel hotel expert. No the funny about it. Surely the hotels always disappointing. So the point is you would get there but you wouldn't be able to madrid but you wouldn't have a view of it very much about looking to ease the joke. It's irma. the joke in the garfield cartoon you're talking about it's the it's the but wait a minute and and i'd like to. I want to get the. I want to go back to earth now. You want to get back to earth. Would you should the deluxe holidays. So it's it's the it's the tear can how about what listen. How about a tripadvisor column. So your call. Him is a long tripadvisor complaint about your visit to voyager station so this uh so twenty twenty seven she july dissa having pay award ever having paid cost fifty million quid trip. It's fifty million quid. A trip to visit the international space station. Fuck it is fifty minutes. Yes so you be having spent from dominion bounds on a trip to a voyeur. Just understand that if the crew detained. I was pulled by the standard the creator i was. I am as i'm ten steps. Will you ten stein twelve. How much do you then it says that the would it be zero gravity. The gravity will be kind of alleviated. So if you're ten stone you will feel like you only twenty three pounds. I don't know how much twenty three pounds is. How much does is to three pounds as to stay what. It's about one in three quarters stones. Okay so you won't you won't be weightless but you will feel very out of twenty three stone man. I expected to feel as if i weighed. Only four stay but in fact it was the you know what i mean like pointless trip advisor only read three. You'll get idea so you could. You larry is kind of putin like tripadvisor long to advise complain about your visit visit to avoid station. They basically complain about the price. it wasn't good value. Bit deviant if i got my space walk was hampered by not that agenda on tripadvisor but i do think the thing about just saying how it will fall away from reality because in hotels you the greetings which really crap and you always have the crap room and you couldn't get the right cushions and why don't stand by hotels the why didn't they understand that you just want to go showroom and wash your hands and face and just light on your bed for like two minutes and then go to the pool. Why do they keep you in reception for in person doing and then give you a real toward of the hotel and you'll let you need a we. Your eyes hurt. You just like just give me a special local code lemonade. Drink malone me later. Let me changed. I've been in these close to ten. I was disappointed. It was not as near the beach hoped proximity to local services. Good at sea china to put anyone today. I could see the with china but that's a good job. In my view it might the view of the view of great disappointing tiny ensue forward and so far i was promised a view of the but it was tanya so far away. That's really what you said you had really well written down. And the story does that Really fucking important but what do you mean is a story in it you know. Nobody will believe you're leaving. Capitol that stays to try and give a picture of a crap uncouple when. Gmc away talking to you. Listen to bowdoin catalog right. I thought for example cricket is to get in the budget. Three hundred million pound. Don't look at me that. I'm listening to my listening face. It's it's you telling you what she likes. Cricket cricket's money no money money's going to be funded on the give to sport. Cricket is to get three hundred million pounds. But i'm gonna suggest the three hundred million pounds. They should what you shoot spending on cricket like for example. T's really nice. T that whole thing with tease the other day turning it back to the old days because the problem with cricket is to piss because of all the making sure the thick people so instead of wearing pajamas money spent on actually wearing nine button. Fly flannels with the ten lovely. Cotton shirts tasted like in the old days with wooden jumpers and wearing the colored sash tight trousers like is in gardez to have nineteenth century. You could spend getting rid of t twenty and all the kind of boring kinds of fast cricket which they have to do to make people. I would you. Why would you go back to. You've got the five day the former the game for more influx into that. Why would you need money to get rid of t twenty. Well because they have to play this awful shortened smash version of the makes money because people go and watch it because people don't have the patience anymore and watch long boring matches it into the draw so you could spend the money on paying them to guy and money on because it might well how much you wouldn't worry about. I'm what i'm thinking is that i think you were a thing. On cricket research one. Last week i'm feeling the tricky vital role. Bright's did you see. Have anything you list of things you have fun about. Someone being paid minimum three hundred frank. My head road take time reports three hundred forty three so so chris news i really because they know that. The he's a yeah. He's take reclusive pulse of children's investment fund it some hedge fund billionaire hedge from being paid a record three hundred and forty three million pounds a year this equivalent to nine hundred forty thousand pounds a day. So what would you do with them on. Yeah yeah yeah you could do. A cricket thing within that you like that could be an umbrella thing about you could You give some to carry two flat. Break ina such true. You could think you could do one of those things where you take that and you say okay and then you could use that to do a portrait of the week kind of the three hundred forty three million a year. Yeah you could pay. You can pay mega harry's go and be caught forever. it's genius so so that's a very. What would i do. go away. Ten mil twenty mil how much you have to know what you pay meet and minutes ago. Where if you wanted to meet off different henry dimbleby founder of leon. Who got out of it and this is great and he often starts conversations with so tidy. How much do you think he just started. Never work again and people haven't really with how much it is. And i would say five i ten and it all depends on how much money you have and we have to accept that we're in the top one percent or point one percent so to pay a james dyson to go away. It would be thirteen billion pounds but to pay me to pay. What would i need never have to work again. And i reckon the ten million. You could never hear from me again. This invitation gave me a little picture of these ties in as well to to the boris and medina forest carry. Yeah so first of all. Your your cer-. Chris hogan yeah you pay money to have the word from the dictionary to the pentagon just the opponent's by way too young pony and trap crap for all and sandwiches. Oh no no way go over a massive cone to be the richest man in the world and to be known as it's a crisp own in fact we could start a movement for companies like dan. Dr i've just got to carry. I'm for chris hohn anyway so you pay. Somebody's not named after a pawn. Then you then you'd pay money to the bars and kerry fund the making harry go away. I can fifty mil. Yeah it sounds like that's more than their combined that net sixteen which you paid your bombers to fuck off or two people in the one that was on read the room and what else would we do with all that money you go on the space thing. This thing going in space go anywhere. Yeah actually you can go. Million pounds ago and space or fifty five million. Yes go to pathos yup great because you. What's good is this also. This is also going to last until saturday. Because whatever happens you can just. It can be like a letter offering it up a quick with with other kinds of typical place. Steakho- well you know. Listen do what you do what you want to. Three hundred and forty-three million a year. That's quite good. I could talk because you can. Skew slash corporation tax could smash corporation tax back to nineteen percent. Save myself thirty grand a year. Yeah hang on a second. It does seem to be when you when you are when you are like a billionaire. Billionaire madman the first stage seems to be prepping so you buy a motorbike and like a nuclear bunker knows your own water supply and then the next stage of like meglomaniac tech billionaire nurse seems to be space. I'm sorry i was just thinking which they'll have to. I'd have to fifteen million collins ear. That's been. You've been listening to giles car and has no idea with me giles. Coren esta work. It's a wireless g dish production for the times produced by ben mitchell. You can listen to us on the times. Radio app would download from wherever you get your costs to find out what i read about. In the end you can pick up a copy of the times all get a digital subscription and for the full live experience tune into my show on times radio every friday from one 'til four causton perfect with rachel silvester down his tomson. A weekly series of in depth interviews with high profile figures examining how overcoming the challenges of their early lives shapes the people that become this week. Conservative politician and mp for tatton estimate opens up about her early life as a banados child becoming a tv presenter. And why he became a politician. This something very courageous thinking your child am. I think because you're not worn down by battles faced and loss you've got the courage to press ahead past imperfect with rachel sylvester and alice thompson estimate vais in her own words. Now available as a podcast. Listen on the radio app. Or you get your podcasts.
Is It Time To Stop Eating Meat
"Yoga one of the most popular kitchen staples amongst families and for good reason to its packaging makes it. So convenient in the creamy texture makes it kid friendly and it's such a great way to get nutrition into a child's diet and a smart ingredient to natural sweet flavors. With young families, super thick cut job at some of the natural sugars strained out allowing you to create healthy recipes without, of course, sacrificing the flavor, all the texture kits. Tommy's an taste. Buds would definitely thank you. I promise you that Lovely Maiden Somerset. Valley pathetic comes natural is high protein low in sugar and it's available in five percent and zero percents packed to find out more head to Your Valley Dot Coda UK and find it in your local supermarket. Hello, and thank you so much for tuning in defeat thought a podcast on a mission to equip you all with the evidence based advice you need to live and breathe a healthy lifestyle I'm ran Lambert registered nutritionist, bestselling author of Renar. She's simply to eat while and found every TRICIA in London's leading private nutrition clinic in each exit. I'm so lucky to be joined by special guests, all of whom can be considered authoritative voices in Hell so that together we can learn fact from fiction and empower the healthiest and happiest versions of ourselves with trusted expert advice. Curbing the world's huge anti increasing appetite for meat is essential to avoid devastating climate change according to the United Nations. Role Agriculture especially, meeting dairy accounts for seventy percent of global freshwater consumption that he eight percent of total land and nineteen percent of the world's greenhouse gas emissions. Of Plant based dating becomes more prominent and increasing number of authoritative voices in nutrition and health a challenging conventional beliefs and the idea that one needs to eat animal products to be strong and healthy. This week's food for thought, sees registered. Dietitian Tanya Hoffner and die on the real truth behind meet on whether it's time for us all to stop eating it. Hello Tanya alone nights to be with you. Know, it's an absolute pleasure to have you on and to discuss such a ever evolving conversation I suppose because. I mean meet his debated heavily at the moment it seems to be in the media all the time. That is good that it's not good and if we're nutritionally looking at it, red meat is such a good source of protein in. So many ever micronutrients isn't it? So what exactly is within it that people are saying causes harm. Okay. So those are some of the great benefits that can be had from easing some mission the died the problem is that we too much in that's having dramatic impacts, not only on our health on knives and the economy. Through ill health, but also on our planet to but I really think before we focus on me we need to just put this into context of food itself because food is a single strong as lever to actually optimize our health and the environmental sustainability on earth. But the food that we are eighteen currently threatening boats over our selves and our planet and the unhealthy diets. Now pose a greater risk to our ill health and jets much greater than on safe sex alcohol drugs and tobacco combined. So it's huge. It's a huge issue we need radical transformation. While I when you put it like that I'm sure that's kind of a shocking stop full missed most of our listeners. Because if we do go back in time that, let's go back in history and millions of years ago when if we all going back to obviously the subject of meat because that's the episode in general but of course, our overall diet humans eight very different to what they know didn't mean even the role of meat then is different to how it is now. Yes I mean we've evolved as omnivores meaning this species of always actually Asian, and both plants an animal origins, and we've got that Dacian, right back to glacial periods. So humans hunted and killed animals for meat, and since that time gave is tremendous advantages because it's nutritionally dense. It's got a lot of new chance in a small CH it. We use less energy media justice than pump fruits, for example. So it's race advantages, but domestication of animals came in on. That was pretty good because even back, you know before the twentieth century, we had great diversity in our diet in many many plants and it's really only in the last twenty five fifty years. meet has become a bone of contention ratio politically culturally and otherwise and renounced answer your earlier question and process me toughest single biggest impact on the environment and of any type food, and they are the biggest contribution to greenhouse gas emissions, deforestation bio-diversity, awesome solution as well as land and water use. So they're very M. resort intensive but we over time I suppose have particularly recently as society has got richer. At where meat is kind of you know traditionally, we've had it whenever we celebrate something it's it's across. Cultures across the word that we we would have me but advocate Richard, we have more of us. And the highest May. Chichi countries would be Australia. Europe, Canada. For example and the last fifty years we've had intensive farming hunting offensive. Desire, we're. We're actually over consuming what we need. Yes. If we touch on the fact that society has changed and we're almost so lucky. We are incredibly lucky if anybody listening is in a position in the UK where we can choose the food, we put on the table weekly. We have a surplus of so many different varieties of food whereas of course back then many many years ago it was wouldn't have brady work like that. As well as you mentioned the red impress me contributing more towards ill health in general. Do you feel about a message that is is cutting through people taking that seriously. It's interesting when you look at the Daesh, I think over the last fifty years you see us in certainly in developed countries us, you know who are consuming most of them each you see a stagnation of the meat take and you see a slight reduction happening, but it's not very significant. We also know that. The younger generation are. Turning Gracia interest towards the environment racer interest in animal welfare, we see a rise in veganism coming. So there are estimates. Half the population will be following more of Effects Terry dive by twenty, twenty five. So it's kind of like watch this space. I'm very positive about the movement that's happening, but that's not to say. That we become Vegan or vegetarian because a message that's really coming out is we need to eat less leash. You don't have to caution answering your diet and I think that's really good things for for many people. I couldn't agree more what one thing that we like to always reiterate on the food for thought podcast is that we place no judgment. No. No bias we just want everybody to enjoy their food and have an informed choice. I think rather than stating that they should or shouldn't be doing something. It's just just knowing that every food is there for you to enjoy. It's just how much and how often and Understand more about where it's coming from the impact it has on your body because. I think for a lot of people out there. If if we look at supermarkets and fast food chains, a lot of them can often meet at incredibly low prices and that does make it of course affordable but. Do you think that's happening impact on the population eating perhaps more more of a set tonight in Bombay need. It's interesting. I think the whole structure around retail and reproduction has that make it as cheap as possible. Let's pilot and let Selah on volume. That's not gonNa work anymore, and we have to get away from us. And even the guys that are putting together the new national food strategy for the UK amateurs, which is led by Henry Dimbleby who's had on restaurants and setup the school plan that they recently met to discuss defense rushing, which is not yet out and one of the key messages that cash was we cannot which you know would use the cost of we can't do that anymore because that actually Kohl's is a lot of the problem. So in that case, we didn't have to go abroad we have to get the food transport. It's not good for the environment and then it drives up the production of more processed foods which become more high fat salt and sugar. So it's about valuing food more and I think really getting back in touch with food, enjoying food and getting back to stash really understanding us. As. Much as it is also van about wastage as well because seventy percent of the food that's wasted in the UK comes from the households and sixty percent of this coming avoided. So I think it's It's the value in the food enjoyment of that we've lost somehow need to recover. Now I I completely. Agree. I. Almost feel like going through. Having coded nine teen hit the UK going into lockdown. We have seen more people using that carpet items. It's been really fascinating. I know for us, health professionals to witness a resurgence of people cooking from scratch and really appreciate in value of having the Spans Cup it because suddenly that was nothing on the shop shelves which was unprecedented if you think about. The. Last well. I guess we've always had food radio on the shop shelves in my lifetime anyway. So that perhaps does reiterate the fact that we can do it. We just need offer incentives maybe because. People don't really know again, it comes down to education as so many factors. My mind is going crazy with the fact that there's ups environment we live in the messaging around food, the actress supermarket pains but how much would you advise people to eat? Anyway, a week of let's say meet how much would you recommend the week? Well, the it's it's interesting how they says all sorts of really calm about last couple of years I believe is because of the egg nonsense reports with when Percy seven of the world's top global scientists came get from sixteen countries to decide what's the definitive answer on what constitutes a healthy and sustainable diet, and they produce the blueprint for the healthy reference guy for what we should all be doing. Now, the land says recommendations did focusing on me. On but they are global recommendations, and if you look at that report, it says fourteen grams of me on average a day that's half an ounce and but you must remember that Basch is global recommendations and some countries around the world will need to increase army consumption because they're nourished, it's proper right for their communities to do. So whereas billions of others will need to reduce their family consumption darkening the UK that's what we need to do if we localize advice the advice from. Government here and other health organizations is that we should be eating around fifty, five, hundred grams of me. No more than five hundred grams cook tweet site cooked me. In in a week, I'm not really translates into seventy grams of me a day and seventy grounds will be very small portion of me like a small portion of checking, for example. So interesting because I just don't think people know that and I don't think the the message has got lost obviously people in the industry are wet of the Lancet report but I don't feel that this messaging has filled trated through to everybody in the UK. Such a valid point that we're always trying to say on this podcast cost in that is that for some people in that cultures in their environment It is all they can do. That is what they have such a good source of nutrition for them, and that is so important which is why we can't just generalize say everybody should go Vegan because in some societies around the world of coal side is impossible. and. Oh, I could go on a tangent again. I suppose if one is to stop eating each how would I guess a little questions like his wit, my body react differently if I be to meet my whole life and then suddenly I want to regime fiddle puckered mouth I'm always on fought. Yeah I mean I think the the the other question around this? A relation to that is really when you cutting down on your knees or you're stopping wash are you replacing with because if you then replaced the winter? White carbohydrates you know not brown carbohydrates your nausea include increasing vegetables you could actually be even more unhealthy. So it's it. The message is actually about as much as what you Cami as to what you can't. You can still eat meat if you enjoy it. Harvard you can be in a vegetarian if you want to that will have benefits. But at the moment in terms of our planetary health and our on Dr Indeed our human health, we can have some meeting the Diet. So let's get back to the way that we exit. When we were hunter gatherers, you know cherish hobbit on the special occasions. have it as a garnish enjoy ish enjoy at once a week in its full kind glory and but really hero the wonderful that we have in our diets which are so delicious and so tasty around the world, and that's really learned from you know other cultures is taken to Peruvian restaurant ferry luckily before lockdown and the joy in the beautiful wonderful plant ingredients you know I think we just traditionally don't know perhaps how to cook them as well as we could source them I'm one staggering factor is Seventy percent of the food that we eat. This is crazy seventy percents food that we eat come through twelve months and fly species yet, we have fourteen thousand plant species to you know available. So I think it really is tapping into that rich variety there. Kinder to the planners, their tasty on its learning, and we can see that happening with the rise though. You know vegan vegetarian restaurants which I was a vegetarian when I was fifteen in southern island nation to garage. Desperately Hard But it's so much easier today. Yet it's almost I think We had done Ella theater on the cusp before she is obscene advocate of making vegetables. Cool. I think we have a big. Misconception. The in this country maybe because of how perhaps grandparents cooked for squaring up didn't have the cultural influx of food that we have now, which is amazing. Unproven fee by the way is one of my favorites A. Favorite restaurants in London to Matay is based on proven style ingredients and it it just divine but I digress. With. The vegetables using it would be like you said meeting vegetable boiled remember having boiled carrots my non-scoring trump. Dinners, and it just wasn't as flavors them as you quite rightly say the options we have today are it's no wonder that it's not incentivizing for people to want to try more and experimental because it will. They've ever known or a lot of US growing up was the average perhaps go within peas and you slice carrots and a bit of sweet corn onslaught of your play to it's. Hard to visit Kinda, stomach issue hair of of where on earth do we start because? I think you touched upon earlier? You know you've sat within at times we got more in touch with our food and we have then hopping forced to think about whether it's financial reasons or evade finish yours ever an you've seen people do more scratch cooking. May Be having to manage things more from budgetary devil forces if that much more. But it certainly within within our reach, and if I think about our grandparents, grandparents time going through the war net really well, they asha balanced lash and they they knew the price of food and value dish. So I think the the joy that's kind of. Good and bad things Cobra. But one of the joyful things is actually beginning to see that happen you know I haven't even touched through a hundred percent as an equipment professionals course, we should definitely touch on the nutritional benefits of having meeting the God were not than what to replace that is if that that choosing to have less Horvat. Yeah I. Think it's Really The whole grains, you know peas, beans, knots, lentils, m more of the kind of brown rice at all the grains and it's it's about diversifying on. It's not necessarily I think getting hung up on how much having they bash I. Think you know Michael Polling puts a very well, it's like eat foods. And enjoy you know clenching plenty plants and I, think that's what it is a question. How by diversified have I mixed up my kind of dietary intake of the end of the day we don't just eat individual foods nutrients about what are we having over that kind of weak an are we mixing yourself? Are We being diverse? Different things all the time and the chance are ninety, nine percent of the time if you're doing then you're guessing or the nutrients that you need. If you're following those general guidelines of the general advice around five hundred grams of major league then plenty of. The grains vegetables being up central your plate. Yeah. Exactly. And a lot of red meat isn't just protein. Let's just distill to Allison's as well. It does contain up vitamins and minerals and and things that really we will do need not die but you can get it out sweat and that's what's really important to. To mention, of course, I think saturated fats. Let's touch on the the difference. If you could Tommy, for US between palm-based. Fats and. An animal fats because there's a lot of confusion around that area as well. People often lumped fat together in one grave deny. I mean, look. Meet is is a source rich source of fat and it can be very depending on the on the type of meat and saturated fat is if we have too much of that in the Diet dissect amount, but if he too much of that weekend. AM It can cause high cholesterol levels which can contribute to heart disease. So we do need to watch that and so that's part of. The factors that have been taken into twin when making these recommendations But of course, than from plant sources, you get the polyunsaturated, the monounsaturated more of what's regarded as the good fats. But I don't like Cooley as you don't like. Good and bad. But we do need more of the the pants, the plant kind of fat sources that you get in vegetable oils, olive oils, and mixing it up by things incredibly important. Now I have a jar. Jar Rate CDL oil other oils, and it's just I think mixing assault and using them joyfully on salads to give them that flavor along with spices to actually get everybody in the family. Really interested. In it. So I think that's the main difference reading with weight. If you have too much saturated, fatty contributes to to heart disease and if we quote too much meat in the Diet, at the levels that were having at the moment you know does also contribute to other. Areas of ill health and such as diabetes obesity on cancer as well and red meat and processed. Me Is very strongly relation to Outcome Sir in particular. Which of course this is this is serious. We're not just having this discussion. Because we felt like it today, it's generally because I think it can help and benefit a lot of people and it takes all it takes sometimes as one person in your household a one friend that you know to have a small influence on someone else that you've pasta message on onto I'm such a believer that we can spread positive nutrition and We're not trying to scare mongering say bad like I said not good or bad it. It's about quantity and quality of the Diet and getting not diverse range of different veg the challenge for all of our listeners I can't remember by this before but should be try and have a new vegetable. The, without on a Monday, you've got a whole week to have some who would not normally have at your dinner table. I bet. One. Visit Tony having the same thing. Every single day on the shopping list for all. To ask sorry to ask you is well a lot of listeners of also wanted to know about free range and organic when it comes to meet is actually better for us. Yet three the instinct soon. So I think you know socially, that has huge benefits, for animal welfare. And but in terms of I, think organic. Nutrition it's not always. The case is actually very little evidence. For you having you know more nutrition benefits but overall for the environment and animal. Welfare Yes. It can do organic. An environment can be good for the environment, but it may not be because, of course. The environmental impact is just so huge. You've got to think about. The biodiversity Washer Sinoe as well as as well as everything else. So it's very complex. I think one thing to watch out or as weather a food company is B. Corp certified it's very new it's not on pack. But it rating tells if companies be court searchlight, they've actually looked at the whole journey of that. From source right through to win it lands in our hand they consider by diversity consider abortion us they consider greenhouse gas emissions everything. So I think that's going to be tremendously you swell in the future I think some people are going to be labeling. How the carbon footprint is on the food not interesting is to step forward and I commend it but it doesn't tell us everything about how that food is produced. Why would listeners go to? If he said, it's not it's not on the packs yet where can they go to find out? I think they have to go onto the company website ready to find out whether there'd be called certified. It's very new very something to reading watch out for but I suppose back to your original question inches find out where is your food source from? If it's organic than you know it's going to have. Know, the pesticides not going to be added going to be better for the environment If it's free ranging, the animals are going to be better cared for about with dark maybe my choice but just in terms of attrition don't always is expected to be Bashar. It's not always the case I mean there's some evidence around grass fed cows that they may have more of the omega three and three fatty acids but it's it's marginally better. It's not. It's not here. She significance in the evidence is very scum at the moment. That's just it. There's no one-size-fits-all and allure of the time it's can be so confusing for everybody because the the media will pick up on a researcher or somebody with a title doctor saying everybody should eat. Saturated fat from cheese because it's going to help everybody's heart health but attrition is just it's just not that simple. It really is doing what for you and like you said doing your own research as well. So like you said, find out where it comes from I think we all have a responsibility now in today's society because every single person come have an impact, we can't just rely on the manufactures Of meant we can't run ourselves everybody. This is in my idea of dream world by the way to. Everyone would know. We don't know what to look for. This is education again, I guess. I guess in terms of everybody, we all seeing a change aren't we in the UK regarding the population's diet of generation y and said I think everyone's Just wanting to be healthier, aren't they and help the Environment Yeah. I mean. Of course we live in a bit of a bubble in the UK because we have you know unfortunately eight hundred and twenty million people going hungry every day in the world. So we've got such a dilemma going on between you know people who are in overfeeding themselves and people who are still going hungry. So globally we have to take this is locally but I think what's really hopeful for me is that? There is this upturn interest in house. was reading the other day. VEGANS and Vegetarians are set to make a quarter of the British population by twenty, twenty, twenty five. M, there's the rising began yousry there is. The. Generation Wyans add are interested in animal when It's such. So I think that is so hopeful and I think with the rise in technology in the way that we can spread messages on campaigns I. Think it's Trying to be hopeful. Completely as quite inspiring actually, it's really really interesting to see how. Help exceptions at the world. Is Changing UH suppose I'm the popularity of like you said began you're being plant based diets. We are also seeing more marketing for me brands and industry its aunt way. Do you think that's a response to a change in direction from the population? Yeah, I mean I think that's not going to happen. You know meet still has a place in the Diet and they have to respond in there has been better farming methods, certain areas you know the veteran use of Washer the special use. Oh, you know the lingerie son, the fee of sexual. At the end of the day, the still an awful long way to go leading with us. Yeah, and again you as you said, fulsomely, people going hungry and the so this. Is a bit of a minefield public health nutrition is by far ten times more complicated than I ever thought. It would be when I studied this university Tanya. It's this many factors to take into account From every single level because. Even, our traffic light use of nutritional information. In the way, it's displayed on packets about seems to be more confusing than simple for people as well to understand isn't it? Yes. I think you're. We're not going to see behavior change us when somebody going into store and just. Pack, we know that from the data it was it one to that can help. Many and I think it is a step forward generally with transparency within our fate is not perfect by any means but I generally speaking I mean the calculations behind it are quite complications and and how that relates to. advertising et Cetera is another story, but I think generally speaking it is helpful that when you go it and you can see something if you go read on the pack, then that's something to be a bit more careful about you know you don't have to have but you do need to be quite careful about how do you have that food if it's amber, don't go mad but enjoy it, and if it's green, don't worry about how plenty your diet. So if we have that simple message, it's a tool that can help us ninety percent of the time I. Agree. It's always good to have a toolbox everybody always kid. Everyone needs all areas of our lives, and we do have lots of questions from listeners on this subject really hard to narrow it down to just a few and I think everybody has a very different take on this. So the first one. Which I think is what used to everyone listening from show this lots of people out there that would want to know what is the best plant based alternative to bacon nuts from Dan. TO BACON WHO Is there an alternative? and. There is there. There's some veggie alternatives to do that I remember trying is when I first went veggie in my teen years I'm not fat you anymore by the way I do have meet occasionally largely on based but I think I don't know I think it's all personal preference. Am there are some alternatives if you like them have them enjoy free that the most important thing if we enjoy our food, we understand where it comes from us to enrich our allies with our families with what we enjoy more following the general principles we can really have huge impacts on our lives our house in the planet. Completely a funny. Story I had a friend who bought him. This is probably quite useful people actually a pack of what they thought was crispy duck. Arrived and it was a vegetarian crispy duck. Oh, tentative and they were like, oh no, sorry lights is going to be awful but then they actually read like I really liked it. So often not either swap to the sermon option if there's one to crispy dot com show, there is one of it bacon down as well and like we said it's enjoyment in Charlotte has asked is one meat. Free Day a week enough to make a significant difference to climate change I, think that campaign has been brilliant. I? Think. It's really helped to know about people you know meat. Free Mondays I think it's a great message particularly for people who will eat a loss of meets gives you the opportunity to reduce, explore and enjoy, and it's not so challenging. It's one it's one day a week. With the recommendations if we go back to that, it's no more than five hundred grams of meat, red meat and processed meat of week actually trying to avoid processed meats, sweetie and processed meats being sausages anything that is not. fresh but cured or treated in some ways of five hundred grams that comes out to seventy grams a day if you want it every day. So one portion of days more piece of chicken again. So is one day enough it really depends on where you're coming from originally, how much meat you you have originally I would say that's what's was very difficult off answer. The questions that because Mike has also said I'm trying to stay in shape unsure about getting enough protein. If I cut meat, do do I replace it with the same amount of protein that would have been in the meat. So we're. Getting a bit calculations, we'll get very specific. Yeah I mean I. Don't think you actually have to calculate unless you're a super uber elite athletes she for the Olympics I really don't think even a the best jim goes do not have to do you know we can see some case examples or ask them great. She's actually going Vegan. So meet is a fantastic source of protein or of the essential amino acids in net. But if you take me Josh of the Diet she can upset the cash, all of those essential amino acids from plant sources and we used to be told in university oh my goodness if. You Take me to the Diet. Then people have to combine different. You know plump protein sources session meal to make sure they're getting enough. That's not the case. Now at the data that we know if you're mixing up your diet like talk her being very diverse having lots of different beans, proteins, pulses, using new products like Michael. Proteins like corn, etc right across your diet. If you're diversifying at, you would op city get all of the minor acids that you need even if your regular. saint. Gym Goer you know being so. That's three short yet definitely, that's great answer and the last question is from Tina Tina said. I guess you Kinda monsters earlier, but you can tell a bit more. What's the absolute unhealthiest of meets the Thai should avoid. Let's seat Ron I'm like you don't like to anything on healthy because it it's not about individual foods and we must move away from this. You know and it's not about individual nutrients. It's not about individuals like what are we having over that day? What are we having over that week? If you're if you like that particular piece of meat that happens to be high in fact, you know and it's fried and it's a steak half it enjoy it next day. Maybe be of no me to you know keep within within the guidelines so. My answer is you know just make sure you keep it very mix up on an an enjoy usually what unite within relation. Couldn't have said that better myself. That does lead us on to the fact fiction round Tanya. You Ready. AGGRAVA-. Hesitant I think I'm ready. If you could on the kindly fact fiction to the following question a guy here we. Meet eaters live. Longa. Fiction. Protein from meat makes you stronger than plant based sources. Affection. Eating. Meat Concludes. True. Yep vegans have low body fat. It is true actually. Yes. Yes, it's good just to reiterate on that one I'm interrupting around this time but got remember you can generic beacons may be yes. But you can't beat unhealthy Vegan to if we're looking at what that would will that phrase they're all vegan chips guys of ice cream just as much as the plant based on start with. You're absolutely right and you know reading saying that you have to be become Vegan the data justice globally can you tend to be leaner but I think a watch out which we didn't talk about your ideas that some of the news of trump based products on this notion of them. There's no kind of governance and education around them. Have come action happen unhealthy announcing proving but going Vegan isn't necessarily what we have to do. vegan product isn't necessarily healthier either you have to really examine. Exactly. Thank you. If you don't eat meat he went get enough protein. fiction. Yet, the biggest source of salt in our diet from meet. Fiction. metoo produced in pastries have the highest levels of fat. COULD BE TRUE a double whammy there from it is it is very high fatty foods than you've got the fat from the pastry from from the meat. Street wealthy. Enjoy The meaning about what you're doing the next day. Exactly. The meat industry emits more greenhouse gases than all forms of transportation in the world combined. You'd save. By not eating a pound of meat than you would if you didn't show a for six months. It could be true and have to look at the danger. I don't even that one I don't remember we pulled that were from now I need to go back. Each rent I pretty sure it was that she was so shocking and meet is one of the most nutritious foods available. True yes it's it's. It's very high nutrients we talked, about Bashar, time protein, many vitamins and minerals. That's why we relied on that. When we were hunter hunter gathers to get the calories England we could. But of course, just remembering contain the fiber, it doesn't contain the cards you know we need all of. Combined amount of trump's foods on the right amount of nation are Dari. To have the best kind of ultimately traditionally take reading. Thank you Tanya. Facto fiction round. ooh done. Really, that does wrap-up the episode they and we are going to finish today with our food thought say I was stopped buying pretty much saying that the evidence as we've quite rice at today does suggest that four health as well as the sake of the planet we could all benefit from adopting more pompous lifestyle and as we said, it doesn't mean you have to cut out if you enjoy mate reducing, it will have an impact and perhaps would result automatically or at hope in you increasing the vegetables fruit as well in the whole grains that are in your meals but. My role as nutritionist isn't to. Tell you all you have to do this like I said. It is just to make informed decisions and choices and I hope that this episode has shown you that meet has an impact in so many areas than just all bellies and our body it impacts the environment as well, and the water impacts your likelihood of developing cancer few reaching red meat those sorts of things it's it's really important that we are wha of fifth in function because I think a little under pressure. To eat in a certain way and ultimately are got should be, but we cannot end not what we can take out. So Tanya, if you could leave us with a take aim nugget information, one feed thought what would that be? Okay. So is I love your takeout and there's another question that I. Really also Nov when it comes to food in its Mike opponent and he says, eat food not too much and mostly counts and I think that reedy says an awful lot that what we should be doing but I would add to that and say. Enjoy your food you know I think that that's the. Big thing that we need to bring back guessing touch with your food nowhere it's coming from, enjoy it more enjoy the diversity and share with your friends. Oh Tony that's that is a beautiful quite actually isn't it? The yet eat many ponds. Lovely. Tanya thank you so much more. We could discuss it's very, very difficult not to go down a rabbit hole with many areas of this conversation. So Thank you so so much for coming on the put. include. If you enjoyed this episode Yoga into absolutely love what's coming next week. So make sure you click subscribe to be the first to hear it and please do if you have the time leave a five star review it does help this pocock get out that we want to be able to reach more people help more people and maybe even perhaps retire highs in the charts for more information about my retracing clinic books, healthy recipes, events, retreats, unsown much more please visit retrain dot com, and you can always follow me at retrieving on instagram twitter facebook and Youtube.
#037 Mitch Tonks Award winning chef, author & TV
"Is this show love your local bar your local restaurant maybe a local hotel and have so many fond memories of time in hospitality businesses this birther liberal welcome to the humans of hospitality. PODCAST I know so many of you listening with this week's compensation with Mitch Mitch tonks thank you so much takeover our high streets please enjoy the shadow each set version and why the willingness to chat is an absolute must if you want to become a restaurant owner so let's get on with the serious business of chatting in of the rock fish family of restaurants and he's a champion if the C. Anna preparing seafood simply and sustainable you'll probably know him you might have one of his cookbooks visitors award winning seahorse or fish restaurant or watched him on TV with World Class rugby Player Matt Dawson also know that Mitch is one of the country's most I in this week's episode I had the pleasure of trapping down to one of Mitch Thomas Restaurants in Weymouth now which is one of three founders of the seahorse and Co found make sure that the rubbish his trawlermen clicked from the C. isn't dump straight back into the Ocean Mitch is also great on the difference between real hospitality and that St Brewers all the entrepreneurs but will do an amazing job of making sure hospitality stays interesting and the big Dahl formulate brands do not really really great people living here and we've managed to build up a pretty good local following already amazing and its peak season it's August the sun's out so you're you're frantically busy so double thanks this restaurants pronounced seven weeks and it's been going really really fantastically well and witnesses an extraordinary place quite diverse and but lots of passages for fish and you'll hear just how Irvine when he talks about the planetary benefits of freezing fish where the prince should be on or off the menu and what he's doing a fish restaurant on the esplanade weymouth's overlooking the beach and it's glorious glorious Anita it is literally beautiful Sundstrom in through so pixies openness fold your story anyway because we share apart the country and in many ways down here in the in the South West and you've done a couple of adventures and you've you've written books Mattel you've opened atmos- which is like the sort of quite some drinks being delivered through brandy brandy which is like places and it's fairly normal people have shot something with coffee and I have a shot something people got used to it Nabet people used to think really big drinking that guy you know actually I'm not I just like drink in the morning how you want things to be and helping people achieve like really great goes in the company in as well as trying to guess what each at and I think that that is where offensive hospitality comes from isn't it for the right reasons if you're doing it for the love of hospitality and not just for the Prophet and I think the thing is like restaurants or places like I think about the seahawks me in the restaurant and sorry in the shop and they were saying like where can I go and eat this stuff in Tyne and at the time there was some pretty good restaurants independence around in those days but it was actually we got three four hundred people in the company and I think I want my job these days actually you realize your job is chatting right yeah just helping people how you want things to look French based and everything was coming cream and all the rest of it and I was at home grilling red mullet stephen cockles and like doing amazing stuff and it was simple drain Grigson Elizabeth David Cookbooks Okay thank you that's one of my morning things mark so young and peppers but my life going verse fish markets early as the morning and Spain and Italy taught me pleasure I love chatting that's what we do good is true it's hospitality why do these face to face and not by the phone it's hanging out in space razer probably be hanging around my grandmother was brought up mainly by my grandmother and my mom was working we're a single parent family in the sixties and we used to have a chain of fishmongers nearest callback fisheries and but I ended up in a going off into a career and building and all sorts different things and I love cooking but actually never dreamed for a moment I was one of these kids that just couldn't wait to get out of school into the and Manga shopping bus and it was a time when farmers markets didn't exist I remember opening the first farmers market with Henrietta Green on radio four four respirator times come on the podcast much appreciate it pleasure as good to be chained to you can you just explain Mitch wear on planet Earth Are we for the listeners we are sat in the new the had they were like this is easy and it is really delicious and so I thought well I'm GonNa Restaurant about the Fisher and I remember so many people saying like your mental once you've closed restaurants so we're going to go through all of that what you're doing now but I just want to go back first of all just put it in context what got you into cooking what's your earliest memories of cooking and fish oil is table peeling these brand shrimps to make sandwiches picking crabs there that kind of thing and then we're gonNA be Regis and get some some stuff so I guess that's my early memories of seafood and cooking world and I knew all and it wasn't too low twenty seven I really realize Ashi what I wanted to sell food to people and I wasn't cooking then the time I was living there sleeping on a sofas worrying can I get through to the end of the week pay wages you all the kind of stuff that happens and Rick Stein came into the restaurant eight which is and they apparently they used to be over over Brin my nine used two semi Dan there I go down with her and buy some brine shrimps crabs and fish and I it was the restaurant we kind of knew what I wanted them to be like I mean running multiple restaurants and businesses were were tough and so a few thousand people to chuck money in and then the money pay builders and we bunk twenty grand and a horse called earthmover ninety four and a horse lost completely necessarily like it is now I mean there weren't so many for a star and like they weren't as many opening there was much interest in it only stablest restaurants there weren't many funky new ones starting up like I love restaurants will never work and will never work above a fish shop and I was like it's fairly obvious right and and that was what happened and it was a struggle I got divorced because of course fishmongers and England had kind of given up by them guys in white coats and corden havoc pretty grumpy stinky places in my wasn't like that and then I just thought like people really good he was just starting off TV shows then and I started doing TV asks do TV book and suddenly things took off the amazing reviews restaurants quicker so that at least you can make the profit and year two and we all know what happens when you try to restaurants too quick came crashing down and so a few mates together interested in Christ church in Bristol and we had no idea what we were doing it was just like here's a fish counter the papers and suddenly people are interesting I was doing and that was that was a star on the rollercoaster bonkers because like those days restaurant industry wasn't in two thousand and four I think it was three inches thick and and it came around with my literary agent in this Italian restaurant unless suddenly people like Jimmy Choo Roger Daltry I mean Jamie Oliver we're at the same publishes together at the same time penguin he was a great supporter and suddenly it became a thing and it was like we run out and the other restaurants do a case and we're kind of like working through casually anyway one of the great things happen was we had an amazing view from Matthew Norman Nine and a half hour ten four hundred eight hundred grand and it was a massive success everything was amazing and somebody persuaded me to float the company stock market as a whole load of money and like just another Malibu high streets right and you'll be the your way because that's what we did and we fish business and moved onto bricks program in bars and it was really great and and this Fisher was awesome of selling tunas and sharks and amazing things Harrods Food Hall every morning on news like yeah yeah I'd love to sell it so we did a deal and we went to London and in those days I I thought like chick was London and had no idea that it was like kind of village they raised a whole lot more money and had a vision for the business that wasn't the same vision I had and Matt who was my longtime Powell who has ops director in using like two thousand seven so I kind of left in two thousand and seven Lou Johnson Autumn with a new management team and I didn't management team and two years later did was pastors and seafood cooked over an open fire and it was really where I got back in the kitchen with Matt and was able to express creative creativity and do things obviously make really great kind of fish works as we call restaurants then and she said well L. There's a friend of mine the owner why don't you ask him if he wants to sell it although you know join the rest brilliant chef great in fish works I said to him where we'd always said let one day one may money will open a place by the sea fish over fire life and and that was what the is all about building this family restaurant and in the process I realized I needed to make more money and was you know ten miles out and we opened had no money I remember like one of the crazy stories sitting there with my one of my investors and business partner at the time because the city is very unforgiving so even we went back to investors and said look it's going to be a profit warning this year we haven't got Harvey Nichols they were like but you said you were going to make this much you said you're going to do that paying the builder with no problem you know the restaurant was coming but the numbers were if they were experts at y and then we opened in modern history and member in our first year we've made I'm in Ron stock market and the city bankers and I went through this weird thing that like money was really important that driving nice cars kind of like yeah this is Great Mortga do worked we worked together opening and he was like I can't work with anyone else by you've relocating the family and came down and and the rest is history it's okay that's love kills me so I'm really looking forward to hearing your adventure Jake had chef who's been with US sensors and apprentice and he's now head chef there he's amazing guy and young Texas we call it three months and London changed and we had to negotiate aware that which cost like half million creative we were at and it was real pain but this is where the big lesson we're gonNA make load of money and it was like a really wrong motivation and I kind of grew through that and thought I want simple life and actually what we'll do is cook with the rest of the Eh Slavia always to buy it's going to be cool and we opened on the July seven bombings and it was a disaster of course nobody went to Harvey Nichols the idea was what am I a originally. It was sufficient ship restaurant where you can come in any boxes inside a kind of beach and it will be has become the institution we're ten years in we picked up a whole lot of awards it's full night and day it is that like community restaurant the people love the horse was colorful I wanted it to become an institutional it's cra- fish restaurant that was going to be here in hundred years time something that was a real asset to the town that was like classically decorated so he was living in Perth I was living in my fantasy premises in darkness said that I'm gonNA open this place called the Seahorse mark join me he was like come and help you live in bath right the only way to grow business in those days there's like lots of them because that's xpress do and all those guys and you're chasing big money nowadays we open restaurants for very different reasons I think it's an entrepreneur you never stop dreaming up ideas doesn't come a day when you stop it's not about money it's who you are and what I came around which was in and you did that specifically to try and fund the restaurant really an unhelpful reputation works you enjoy it can you sit in there relax yeah I never used to but now I think is very clear a couple of years ago about saying I don't cook anymore that was really tied up with nation for longevity was because of what happened fish and you needed to improving your gone through this kind of stage suddenly I didn't spend any time in restaurants or spending mm-hmm and we had a really great team technology was different than high running most restaurants the restaurant on Harvey Nichols on the floor we saw that great you know you're going to be to run a restaurant and it was like it was quite pioneering in the fact that you could buy fish to take away and you can have it cooked in and the seahorses like I wanted because they want another brand new all they want another cheese kitchen in one chess left behind him wait is on the floor and they have to lay up around that guests and for me that's what great hospitality I look at the food there and I eat and drink the wine there and I'm like this is awesome it's got a life of its own which is really really beautiful which is I think when Tony Restaurant rat all the bat and we have extraordinary people that work there that carry the baton I really think it's forty covers in the dining room but the seahorse the detail that goes into the sea horse the long days it's hospitality I think it's absolute best when guests are there at four o'clock drinking you still serving them knowing that you're not going to break see he's go very clever brain about systems and things like that so he was fully involved with fish I remain cooking for a while and in the end it was like well occasionally up the bar and then we go to private dining which is fourteen people with its own kitchen and we have grills on the street I mean I I marvel at it sometimes and and we all as a family believe in the in this legacy of what we've created by their and private dining women every day we focus on it being better and people say to me like could you open another Matt Sous Chef I got in from college as a seventeen year old. He's now twenty-two sous-chef my son Ben's finish ten years is is sort of he's been with US August about the fact that I don't Cook I waited tables on Saturday night and I'm in the restaurant and neither restaurant has a new new life they're standing on our shoulders and it's just just really felt like a family run restaurant felt ladies walked into the backstreets venison somewhere in its place was here forever and now the Seahawks and we've worked together like my left arm right arm you just brilliant freely and was very different from what you said is kind of like yeah the I feel like I want to be that seventy year old guy carbon the stake at the table for people still able to tell people about what would be like yeah we've been I've been here for forty years and achieve with her team Monday stress another great hospitality giant he's imparting all of that knowledge and stuff about hospice opportunity on these guys is the sense of watching people succeed in doing things so even here young Katie joins us as a manager s and like what she and then I normally avoid the places probably a little bit harsh but I'm this I'm not operationally their team down if you put me on the tail I'm not cool enough to be behind the bar yeah great pride and joy but invariably noticing the order their next drink whatever it must be so you need a really good enjoy you know that you've go- contain you is your time is up to you guys so those are kind of handover period while you kind of make sure that everyone really understands the depth of what you're trying to achieve and now doing bigger and greater things and that for me is incredible but you can now go there for dinner and some guests and you feel is how many businesses me kids that's three my restaurant on on the balcony on the sea front last week and it was really sunny we correct because if there is one glass sturdy everything else would be right but he'll just pick it all up and then I hear people saying that in some ways I think you know what that's great that's the kind of standards I want to make sure that we're working towards like three and four day weeks I WANNA make sure that we're working towards like tips everyone has anyway proper pay for people you the standards you set on the culture you build but I think one of the things that I really love restaurants these days in building them we're not there yet I want people to feel like this is the best job in the world I want people really value I want people like police each other on standards and I'm like well I was going to say is that the reason that you didn't roll out seahorse it was Fishburne deliberately different because it's a different visual we yeah so so generally I don't go because I'm a bit old enough and I'm going to go in and take control Orient need to not be there but he was he said I'm going to take this as a compliment the fact you've actually come in with your anniversaries graduations whatever family gatherings isn't if you do hospitality Z. Love it that's the joy it's not selling an extra beer extra glass of wine it's actually creating spaces humans I mean he still lighter nightstand do this to that you're kind of tuned in I think one of the things all of our staff and all the restaurants are like Mitch comes in just like make sure every I'd like really cool like those are fried fish brilliant not that was a very different end of the market then yes was on fisheries is quite premium because you had a combination of a fish still get six or seven quit for like everything we buy is incredibly expensive and when people say to me he met you know you fried fishes fourteen quit or you know whatever Ah want people to be really efficient we don't people hanging around late at night wasting hours you know we're going to pay you well is less view you work harder but the service standards the levels a great all of it in when I was growing up we went out on high days and holidays we didn't go out Monday Tuesday Wednesday Thursday to different places so something's got to shift and that's why Asia so good is the podcast where we get to chat to the human beings behind the scenes of that industry maybe the sheriffs or the baker's coffee roasters or the GIN distillers or the craft to be changing at the same time as as pay and pension costs and lets us go up so it's a margin in the industry and making it hard but it does feel like we're and I was struggling like mad aren't we was staffing people as you say just thinking about the industry and I kind of feel like a rock fish with three to four hundred people spend time yet behind the scenes all too often our staff our team the compromising on the time they spend with family because there there were doing so yeah it's a challenge I think because it but it does seem to find we're going to a more positive trajectory I think also eating especially in the world of seafood you know we didn't have a cheap chicken liberal black pudding or pancake we can put on the menu appaled and he went to work with Nevis Saboor then he came back so he's there my youngest torture in boyfriend work in front of high shows a proper family restaurant and you know what you can have a life as well which hospitals usually robbed his which which is a oxymoron isn't the fact that we spend our lives looking after people who enjoy in your salary I haven't been out on the balcony overlooking the ocean and it was glorious sunny day I was still to be fan not facing the restaurant I was facing the other way watch service in your own can't be a thing affiliate potential but do it in a nice environment where they're actually because there's a lot of rubbish jobs in hospitality I think we're on a mission to change that I think it's one of those things I'm sure everyone is it's just brilliant or you mentioned your head chef you took from Jeff over ten years and that's great isn't it there's a war and seeing people develop and kind of it feels like a Lotta money I'm like a real man you know it's like there is no cheap that's the cost of it I don't think like people evaluating more in the future because like Scott privileged to be served by somebody everyone's got used to the fact is go to a restaurant somebody brings you some food right it's like this is serving you it's like it's a it's a proper art right because it you just grabbed his crockery grabby curious in a plastic bowl anita and it's like that's what it is in these kinds of light small cafes much nine England everyone was served wine lists for like ten quits also I was trying to find out from the net hub in London stuff in one building and we will chat about in fact there was someone like they'd worked out when people stay for two nights whatever it was there was like three hundred and fifty points of contact between his team and he guests that were saying over those forty eight hours in twenty five years ago twenty six years ago and I realize I couldn't this wasn't going to be a career and it was actually driving home trudy when people make a decision whatever that decision is as long as you're clear that there's no going back like you experience freedom and momentum in a way run the money and it was incredibly profitable and there was a cash flying around in those days and lots of skulduggery with clients would liquidate company Star again over I mean it was like that was the east end in Javadi F. and it looked really cool it was great it was called the fish market in those days and I didn't realize him out water that you have in a fish premises running everywhere so this whole place money and I was going I was going to get into the food business and you know I still back at that moment is thinking that it was the most empowering moment in my life and I think the film I want to sell around the world which is my ultimate dream and how how am I going to make that happen and I just thought I want to selfish that's why I wanted to nobody else is doing it. I Love Seafood Entrepreneur and I had a really good head for figures I started working for him I remember how I met him and I worked with him for a couple of years it was a bunker business I mean it was absolutely nuts that nothing else can give you it's truly amazing you can't look back and say that's what I'm doing and I'm done my whole life is that and a clothing business in London or or as a business made com equipment to make close the service and he was just a tonight I was driving past Swindon Junction Twenty seven years old listening to Paul Weller Ano- decided at that moment I am not going back to work I had a mortgage to kids ad a bit but it was actually didn't go into Kennedy formerly I met this really amazing Gyco Richard Vale who he ran Asian but it but it was never any premises at this point nothing I mean it was literally I was an decision then to the premises I found within I think what I was doing was just like that's just do stuff yes do largest office enthusiasm and everything else that made it work and of course I've been lucky enough in this business too and all this kind of stuff I decided kitchens in the early days it might my TV career was sort of like before food TV was really big food TV. Let Your Jamie Rick and a busy month at Christmas and busy months in the summer and but I think we would just inexperienced at running this multi-facetted business and I think look grown up by the beach that's what I want to do and that's why I'm going to do thank goodness Ella and I thank you know this is true I went I left the House okay whereas Mitch and the answer would be he's filming I just felt like it wouldn't be the seahawks anymore and I decided that as glamorous enjoyable many points of contact and every point of contact cause some cash fundamentally doesn't those people are being paid to look after you so yeah we do need to pay a little bit more for what we're having speaking of which was dive you will say dived into home delivery one point as well is that right because that's obviously all the rage now in certainly in the restaurant world in descending afresh people's homes and I think that we didn't do a good enough job for people to really get on the idea was there it was really great and we're pretty head of your time with that it was time and now the Internet is yeah I was happy I was twenty seven and thinking whereas my life going I'm driving the motorhome enjoy my life there stay in London I come home I see my family and contractor I didn't I didn't WanNa do anymore which is upsetting because a lot of people to be cross and I just thought you know what the day somebody comes into the sea horse and I didn't tell my wife for a week because it was like one of those things I left the house to go to work as normal and went to Carmel and saw guy that John Strike you're gonNa have great placing porcelain fishmongers and okay we may we'll start that sort of thing again with raw fish is kinda gross you try blows the hell did you do we did it for a couple of years and I think we at one point we did really well we have eight and then you know Matt Dawson and we did it in the restaurant turned up and he's like one of the most phenomenal guys ever I mean just you know really friendly really amazing made me feel at ease and we spent six auto regularly in those days it was like a hard slog walk faith fresh fish by post now actually loads of people do it really really well and make that work and it's a dream Oh van push renovated for the series and before Penn and my wife and my kids moved to Dartmouth we used to drive down to play school Stoke Fleming in the Dan we pack on top of the hill and pen with make up a lovely bed cuddling Z and I had a TV and I was watching the together traveling round like sometimes in the van sometimes by plane sometimes being driven and we were locked in this bubble and we I was really funny because a series I was doing and they the TV channel wanted to screen news and people like Phil Tufnel. Brian blessed looked wants to be a chef in Wester TV chef. That's good because I think about excuse me glamorous side of it not to be fair we're doing some research last night driving dft twelve months it melts but these were later learning coach right and the supply chain because you're not by the bath either in those days was really small and and that was my TV career then then you know Matt doors and I got offered another series and I decided on the day whereabouts I still remember it today and because it's a hard thing to do but but if you're you're earning good money yeah you wife and what you've been thinking about it for a long time was that just come up with just comes up overnight from call and that was when I met the guys Niger Lender Martin from Channel Fisher which was a company that we ended up buying we had fish works yeah I knew they were empty shops or I bought my and was able to get in and there was an old clothes shop and I had seven and a half thousand pounds for the savings and that went in and that was how we did it and you know a few of the other guys who are the big guys get you sorta popular but not what it is now there were still a low mates in the Industry Nice Simon rimmer and all those kind of guys that we all used to work on a TV channel called Great Food Live with a lady called Janet Barney and that's your poor Hollywood you know we're all just like they were present his I was a guest awesome I help you buy fish and you know how do you how do you get to places and I want to try and do and work with him and he helped me in the News Rotschild Watch some outtakes of you which I think on your website and you had good very very funny so yeah I can imagine that it was the study is it play really one is that I never went to college bishop and therefore I don't have any preconceived ideas of how to cook something and the other is like all my best seafood meals in the hallway the two of my friends today they sent me a box fish and said you know have a look at this it was awesome yeah and they they became supply breaks another call Brixham Sea Fish Greg is next it's about so everything I've ever taught people is like if you can get a really amazing fresh crew and do anything with it put under the grill frank we laughed I got here first hand the experience of winning the World Cup and always remember one really amazing story just very quickly I the van that we use as one that was succeed in is not playing anything and I was like you're not going to believe it I said but like that. CD is a recording as the final I said like I couldn't believe thousands three World Cup todd recorded it he's amazing anyway multiple van for two years got all that man does driving along together and he's like what they're all the way through this you seem to have been almost evangelical about getting people to to Unsan fish not afraid of fishing tweet Fisher seemed to be aimed not the kind of like the high level connoisseurs they're the same principles that we apply it seahorse and in everything we do really I was a turn Hype Beach Cafe just days ago add some lemon some some salad have something that's acidic cut through it some onions and capers or something like you won't get a better meal and to this day I still believe those very same things and then we've only got fryer so how do we how do we do everything that's not fried so then we grill in and then the grill is what kind of okay but more people enjoyed grilled fish than fried fish and then that's perfect before simplicity so right so we come to rock fish that he does sea horses up and running them to go right we're going to do again it was I think we sort of thought about doing something like that's have another restaurant because you want to make some more money and we did it and we had fish and chips in boxes before we get on the back onto route fish McMahon Lucky Bryant last just in front of it old been Saturday table either in the Mediterranean or my travels wealth had played fried anchovies. I've had a grilled soul of Crab I've had lobster I've had the beautiful simple breakfast of the day I was driving past and I was just Mesa I'd never been my sating buddies come on I'm going to take you somewhere it was never gonna pay any bills this is just nuts so within a very short period of time to realize like that model that we had in mind is not going to work so we gradually started you know I realized I needed to do things differently so I was going to be writing books at this time is one of the writing books I was doing TV series Dourson so we do appreciate every single thing on the menu gluten for your has gluten free option so bread might switch but actually everything has got no gluten and it's amazing how many people pastor some seafood fish none of it as ever been complicated to do and I think the problem is the moment you kind of see seafood dishes at get incredibly complicated use the UH on menus like gluten free fish and chips problem and I had a phone call from a guy that said we ever seen a three year old girl we see yet disease that's eating gluten choosing terrible pain I'm in hospital not just GonNa give somebody a little card that says like your gluten free so you can have these few things every single thing on the menu will be free and we made a pledge got certified by the Association and all of it and we went through the learning curve how many fish on the menu then it's not available in the market so you end up telling People GonNa Lemon sole of Dover sole today Hatun than I dreamed that we'd have fish business and so now we got fish business and then more recently we just got into fishing boats fish business is in wholesaling only and I remember the first day we took twelve hundred quit was really packed we weren't where was it is Thomas Tom and we weren't making her own chips and inside Henry Market had coffee and said let would you join me in and helped me build a board together and then the second one was a guy called John Barnes John Barnes ended up selling around the world and the Volvo races and then we ended up with a tablecloths whereby we right on the on the table cloth what's available each day so we can best the was on the Border Cafe Nero lots of really amazing brands in the beginning and I remember seeing John a conference one day thing one awesome guy juice myself Tim anyway long story short invited him did you say involvement and then there's the environmental issues and we started supporting sportsman because I wanted people to see the brand visibly so we've supported young sportsmen China Kipah there from the chess smoke house and I'm just sitting there just picking these bones eaten smokey fish looking at in this is epic seafood right extraordinary respirator operator visionary who used to run Harry Ramsden's sent to international with a US because your fish and chips and I was like Whoa hang on a minute I'm a chef we Friday and explained to me that the segregation needed to be like if you were going to stream record breaking a massive fish and chips which we didn't square and yeah great very very warm natural kind of hospitality chatty talked to the other kind the people who stopped me in the street just say Mitch chips in their awful as like nine nightmare so you know summit we've never done before and then I realized how many staff we had like twelve any bite for ourselves and one other company and not sit but along the way there was some real important points which were but really China a lot of people seem to be afraid that fish is hard but is that fair to say that all the way through you've wanted to open this up to kind of he was in my restaurant one night and see horse and invited in a year later to come and have a look at rock fish and he walked in cofre needs to be proper so at that moment I just decided right you know what we're GonNa do we're GONNA rip out every range of God we're going to put separate pans in and we're GonNa make our whole menu gluten-free he decided to decide but Charles in and then we had a really unfortunate incident where where we did some we just chunk of it to twenty-seven people that we ended up with twenty seven and offer and it was people liked Giles Coren Henry's parents and uncles and wonderful thing about private companies like them was we've had loads of investment but they just loved our business they they didn't really they don't want us to push it they said let will invest investors along the way they appreciate the bumps in the journey and all that kind of stuff and you know they were they were bumps along the way of which there is with everyone story that I had to sit down in front of people and ask them before that he was the MD of UK KFC and then just went on his own with Harry's made lots of mistakes learn built the task which is a great brand Spanish brandon those days sold it for lots of money really great quality people or money which allowed us to go and then last year we solve it a little bit too company WHO Gresham Ventures Private Equity Company but alongside on the same terms that you're in and we we are in it to build a business with you not to just like drive for the next three or four years and then flog it six years ago I started working with hawks more they they approached me and asked me to work with them and open and help them set up their supply chain seafood and they'd been to the seafood and they've been to the sea I think the world is changing in terms of what investment actually means these days there are a lot of people that just solely driven by profits it make money and there are a whole lot of people that on Monday and then ask for cash again on the Friday and things weren't great and people like this is nuts Mitch Benny way we then we then got the business to a stage and then we decided to sell us the buddies together and help me raise money Henry got loaded buddies together a good network right there good network and then we we rubbish how we treat our people absolutely everything and what we find is money follows up completely and utterly margin follow everything follows good practice follows doing something amazingly well it's about doing something at scale an incredible integrity from where we saw wise how officials source is is words where he said this is what I should have done with Harris amazing I told you I wasn't going to invoke with business again but you know what I mean and I'll help you raise money so john say they put some money in and they end up having a lot more in and this is very different 'cause the first brand with we were gone to the stock market rates we had and that was deliberately which is what rock freezes Obama's let's do something really awesome and one of the game changes for me and the company was five I realized I needed money also realized I needed to have a really good board of directors so Henry Dimbleby was a good friend of mine is come down and an I ten and we spend all of our time thinking about taking head on the challenges of how do we solve our waste problem how do we get fish direct from boats well let's just let's just start happened we have plymouth opener had a couple of really good mates from young seafood who find investors that money that let's just you want to do that again was in the beginning it was like well because the trouble is I think with restaurant groups you need to grow you need space to grow need patient equity you need I mean I of doing that and I think if we can have a legacy of twenty five restaurants or in areas like weymouth light Brixham nobody would ever invest in those areas investing in fishing boats let's just start investing Mussel farms is some of the future and the things that we want to do so they eventually we can end up with a business that's totally fully integrated we're on us on incredibly well we're both willing hugh the two founders and we'll BECCA is one of the most extraordinary human beings I've ever met who's the you want me to do it and it was the best thing I've ever done not only as one of my greatest friends he's just got so much insight into the Industry Hawks Moore's extraordinary business built and for what what those guys are created and will has helped me to shape the future business plan and this company which is not about making money it's about capitalists backed flip it model of them look more like property businesses than hospitality businesses buying it fifty units three years units one hundred unit seller again somebody else blows up because you're you know I look back at some of what mentioned brands but some of the sites that are the browns have been in I'm like why it Yeah I love it and it's exciting to hear that trajectory is possible because the industry in the last couple of years particularly dining sector seems to have been as you mentioned then that sort of fuel that they did what we did in Malabon highstreet which was like we made that my money ten of those right sword there's only one Malabon highstreet you can't not in my wildest dreams next to mow is going to be in this fan I need up to me and said she zinc when I passed that Johnny Wilkinson in my Wall Street and I'll be sitting with the four but for me it's obvious over the sea eating seafood like I mean it's just like going back to where I started fish restaurant see one hundred dollars to two hundred and it's been depressing to watch hospital turned into a commodity at that level and it feels like in six months the bubble's burst a little bit to try and manage every single point of contacts to be positive engagement and a positive experience because we service and I'll tell you what is the public I've got no idea that there's that many people finding the Malvern highstreet and I'm showing every restaurant group they're the performance that you know you never going to replicate it it's just impossible and and also I think the of hawks more and I said to him one day ruined hawks more way to farm in are saying I'm looking for chairman the back seems to evolve every year I go there's another marquis that's been into the side of cases he sprints along the crypto food at his best version of the Turin Gita right and would you put your restroom there and it's probably like I can put in here why in here in here put them all in here's a big presentation how many people live in the area but oh yes we're going to work and you know somebody's got some industry experience you know do you know anyone and he said I'll give it some saw they said la giving it some thought up at my hat in the ring would you how would you I wanted to do was awesome and we just we just had the best time ever and we drank a lot you if you if it's a heady cocktail right load of money loaded city centers being developed and a really good business model suddenly you all three of those together it's awesome yeah we did a show is some record-breaking fish and chips attempt we ended up cooking this huge holly burkhalter what show some food Syria it was it was wife and she was like mental. Why didn't you tell me a week I mean and and it was crazy watson chefs and everyone else and you you create a Faux Pizza Retaliation Sea for whatever the thing is but he's not real and a real restaurant I think takes when you're opening restaurants like that with a look what you're doing is really creating a stage set so you cry state set you people don't pretend to be in just seven days time cheese good ops teams really good people geographically spread after that I think I think in colony to make choices about what you compromise what you don't you've sort of personal he somebody incredibly admire the way he runs his business and brings people on and we worked with him at the festivals and I remember those restaurants in the early days and James Integrity is unfounded amazed brilliant guy and the restaurants are brilliant early days and kind of when when it becomes irritating when it's just a faceless board of directors in owned by half a dozen VC's and there's nobody in there who sees hospitality as has you know we got less money wants to be choosy about it places won't survive on offers offers a heroin I mean how can you how can you run a business by discounting I mean that was part that heady cocktail of money business people other people trying to do stuff it's not worked I think it's typically iceberg I think they're is not that's not a business that's that's not hospitality business anyway that's something different and you know all this stuff has got money behind it backers people expect people will we'll change it and and everything else but I think small groups of of a of restaurants can do exceptionally exceptionally well if they're strategically done I think you're right blick need to do to make sure I think we're on the tip of I think Jamie all of his restaurants were really interesting thing they'd restaurants I walked through there the other day we've now opened just next door outside we've got lovely terrace outside overlooks the gardens you can hear the birds in the trees in this in essence shopping center looks like a shopping center eating this this concept but it's three and a half hours and covers and other restaurants in the town offensive genuine family one's closing off the kind of thing is just a commodity and that's been a bit depressing to watch so yeah I share your at least you wish for and become increasingly optimistic the more people speed there are lots of other brands out there that in the next period of time will evolve get sold closed change because people will revert back to wanting to go to place they're good they opened a bitch to Odeon cinema fundamentally a big an indoor shopping center and it's called three and a half thousand covers in with all sorts of big name kind of got fakes harasses outside wrestles and people are actually sat there fundamentally there's not even a window and they just sat outside a restaurant and I think why on Earth are people sat in here and day of the day of the independent will will be back or small scale groups restaurants I mean that's the whole thing because I think that's true it's a winner Akhavan because they flood the market they often offer driven so I love your your kind of description there utopia but is it going to happen and what to Hudson from pigs always demonstrated that quite well as he grows to sort of you know ten eleven twelve years in the and then we'll robbins one of my dear friends and you know I have to say what am I yeah garden is doing it I think the thing is doing something with integrity at every level and from cares about that stuff but more importantly is young people in teams and they have Robbins ethics enthusiasm I think it will I mean we we we've examined said how many restaurants can be run before we have to start making compromise and the numbers like twenty we think that we could do is independent restaurants with is what people come in full I think you're right on hope you're right is happening because we're still dominated by the by the big chains in both where we were chatting earlier where I'm from toilet paper and remember kid like Oh my goodness me what we're going to have things made from people's toilet paper and you know that was for hippies right and live it to deliver it all of that stuff I've always said to my team the fundamentally even though I've had to delegate you know who's WHO's phoning up eleven o'clock at night and tall and I'm very open about it and I don't really want to freeze the fish from out here you know working with small-scale fisheries we want to be able to enjoy that harvest and become chain but I think if it's if it's family owned your perfect is operatives as Genu in integrity actually respect anybody who can grow their business to a certain levels eighty five years I've been involved with seafood I've definitely seen the landscape changing mentally we can't get away from that it's a sad thing to see not to choose change so in the beginning was was sustainability of fish important in the early days or at least recognized important so does that seem to have gained momentum it really wasn't knock it was I mean I remember smaller net bigger mesh nets all sorts things try and leave a lesser footprint and catch better what's been the trigger do you think for their chains and shopping around the pig on the beach and what they've created their the amounts face the kitchen garden was just stunning the opportunity for the sheriffs estate long-term and to learn that where those plants come from just walk into that garden morning and pick some fresh plants yes if you end up with your with your own fishing the order through to the to the various supplies that they need to imagine that I have to be able to look every customer in the eye and tell them the truth until sometimes we may not be a source the product we said we're going to Dainelli and I think I can still maintain great quality seafood sustainably and then the small-scale fishery full local seafood is is is really what people come for because single thing on our menu within the next year to be certified so that will be product from different parts of the world but from fisheries are being fished and harvests a small fishing boat two guys one net trolling the effort is is just minute in comparison society ocean and everything else it's well managed by quotas nick our guy who skippers the trawler that we just involve with he's just such a forward thinking fishermen the greenies now actually fishermen are leading the way and sustainability we have some amazing fishermen in in in Port Brixham who forever try new gear you just like his part of life I think I think like all of these things become a bit you in the end the sustainability is no longer a like it's a buzzword ten years ago the buzz word everyone you know these fisheries these in fishing within six miles from amazing that's amazing fishery those ones that fishing locally it may be this morning saying I landed last night I had a huge I four trays of rubbish other people's nets cried fishing the ocean I bought it back to the harbor Maceo yourself you you want to learn those those kind of people and you know what robby is really all about is detail and executes hospitality in a way that other people on the menu are you sustainable fish I use this just try and satisfy I'm now that isn't the case now I think people wake up the fact that no this is this is this is really real I have to eh for hospitality and he's just created that culture and that's that's what businesses have to have yeah it's Nice we james a couple of weeks ago owning his execture for group group chef awesome this way or have to have this person that person and Blah Blah so it has changed for me where we're moving towards is I have no problem with frozen food fish arriving an abundance wild salmon all sorts things I remember y you don't get any more and I think I think in a thirty thirty years knows not quite city freeze it because one of the things I've always pundit in my mind is high much fish in a supermarket that's just say fresh fish or anywhere gets caught goes to a depot goes to a supermarket goes to a home all those points various places where it's going to be wasted supermarket Consulate Fish Mark Consulat restaurant just telling people get this from here I get it's like doing it now because everyone can get this from here in this room knows like be it Seton not wasted on the way freeze it enough for annoy freeze it make durable use it as you need it because for me that's all pass sustainability attitude at a is it because they're seeing a reduction in fish is it political pressure is it public pressure I think it's just the way the world right I remember seeing tomorrow's world where people were talking about you know recycled frozen MS's stuff is madness and I think if you've got a fishmonger a great one in Weymouth waifish where you can go and buy local fish it's not not sell it for housewife at home doesn't Cook it someone hasn't come home so they decided the next day then they throw it away so at a ton of catch how much physically certified frozen products that we should be using a combination of both because last time I looked into Peron's few years ago we took him off the mend mark high challenge fish is a great example because sometimes it's just really rough out in the ocean for a few days isn't it yeah and you come to choose after bank holiday weekend and we're kind of like the boats you know I I I chat to Robin about business things and I just think he he kind of leads the way and all of that and and as I like to call off young but I'm not as of our and actually it was all I want to touch on that around the kind of supply where you're supposed ability because you've been doing this a long time and he thought years as that changed so you see it as a treat and you enjoy it and for me that would be that would be the right thing however the supermarkets do provide some great ms a perspective where we want them to buy sustainable fish can they do that in the supermarket certainly there's some embassy stuff but the local kind of debut stuff can you get that from the supermarkets case finding a local fisherman change that today that we have been I been onside nick brings back rubbish she puts it in there and these are the kind of habits I think
Labour braces for the EHRC report: Politics Weekly podcast
"The Guardian. North Conservatives demand a clear lockdown exit plan from Boris Johnson as Labor prepare for long-awaited. Anti. Semitism report. I'm just Albert deputy political editor of The Guardian and this is politics weekly. We will not allow antisemitism in any form in our society because it is poisonous and divisive just as much as Islamophobia. Tomorrow, we're expecting to see the equality and human rights. Commission published report into the Labor Party there review was launched after whistle blowers leads at the Party was institution the antisemitic in its handling of complaints and within local Party stretches, allegations that were denied at the time by Labor. So how will the new Labour leader deal with the report and for those Corbin followers? You feel like this is just one of. Many attacks on the full fulminate politics are they likely to accept the report's findings I haven't spoken to Mauka since since June. But I think that what he's doing is is terrific and we support for local councils and indeed the prime minister might appreciate some heat coming off his cabinet in a week. Seventies are still sticking to their guns on the issue of free school meals despite a countrywide campaign by the football. Marcus Rashford to get businesses and local councils to do what the government won't Taurean. Pisa Hoping. Not, face another embarrassing U-TURN. So with disgruntled benches at Brexit deal deadline, fast approaching and an emotive campaign to feed hungry children in. England. We thought to ask how can the Conservatives pull themselves out of what's been a particularly tough month plus in the latest of a series of interviews with the chairs of Parliamentary Select Committees Rajiv style talks Kris Bryant Cherif for the Committee of Privileges and the Committee on standards about keeping MP's behavior in check and attempting to hold ministers to account in such unprecedented times. That's all in this week's politics weekly. But I tomorrow expect to see the long awaited report on the Labor Party by the equality and Human Rights Commission looking at claims of. Within the party to discuss all this and everything else making headlines in Westminster. This week I'm joined by The Guardian columnist politics be potty. Thanks so much for coming on that. We don't actually know as we record what the HRC reports going to say but we've already seen some of those. You might fakes some criticism minutes findings come out and defend themselves the. I carry Murphy Corbin's a former chief of staff era piece for a saying that she hoped to set the record straight and said the anti were removed from the Labor Party more quickly transparently and effectively than ever before under his leadership. Is there a sense of of trying to get excuses in early or protesting too much about this decision to come out and defend? Their record before the reports even published. I think it looks very defensive. It looks as if. Those people were running the Labor Party at the time really afraid of what might be in the report I think is rather mistake to get in before they've actually seen it but clearly, it's good to be really embarrassing for Labor. Anyway the last thing but labor wants is to be reminded of a pretty toxic recent past. Led to the worst election result since nineteen thirties I think any reminder about those days and particularly the frictions within the party at the time very unwelcome. We've got any C- National Executive Committee elections going on now they choose the people who are going to effectively run the party, make those kinds of decisions as how to respond to things like Anti Semitism on whether this is these are all are A. Set of people elected or whether quite most still Kobe nights we'll take the pulse of where the party's at the moment. I think is a pretty strong chance that the stomach slate will win the Jewish Labor movement as well as sort of come out a bit this week and said, then impressed by this, they say antisemites were swiftly removed by the party at all they were. The way that she said, it was easier and swifter to remove anti Meister in the party. We think of EMC report will sort of probe. More about the procedures that went on under Jeremy, Corbyn and rather than the kind of personal views of its leading members. I. Mean I as probably some campaign groups who would like the report to say. Jeremy Corbyn himself as an anti Semite and should be removed from the Labor party but that's. That's probably the job of the equalities watchdog to do that. It seems unlikely that they'll be personal in that way but like they'll go how did that like a party as an institution what we know is that was a huge bat logo cases that were dealt with really slowly the trouble is the full line here is really deep with Labor because those who? Will the cold night wing passionately believe they are not anti Semitic. They believe they can talk about Palestine they believe they can talk about capitalism and even. Mentions of Rothschild and a global capitalist conspiracy. None of that they think is anti-semitic whereas most definitions of anti. Semitism say those major reactions all very much bound up together that you can't separate out the to another think the two sides will ever agree on what is or isn't antisemitism but I think you're right I. Think it's unlikely that we been himself will be personally food for anything other than administrative incapacity to deal with the problem. John Ashworth said this morning, the Labor Shutter Health Secretary that it was the most shameful episode in Labor history. Do you agree with that. Do you think do you think that it will end up being that? I think it is I. Think it was I think reached the electorate it was interesting going round. Seats all over the country during the election you listening to the people who had been labor. We're not going to vote Labour Anti. Semitism kept coming up in places you went might not necessarily expected including in those former red wool seats. I think it run deep. As an emblem of what was wrong with the coal bitten. Labor Party whether that's fair or not I don't know but it certainly was politically toxic. We've seen kissed on come down quite hard during his tenure Labor on Party members who? Might have indulged in in some antisemitism and also including those who even maybe accidentally tweeted or or greed with some some anti Semitic tropes Rebecca Long? Bailey. SAT The the former shadow education secretary. How do you expect to respond to this when when it's out? Very. Firmly indeed I think it's likely that he will accept all of their recommendations whatever they are because after a little like is wildly. Unreasonable, he said right from the start the very first thing do would be to deal with Anti Semitism. That was the first thing he did when he became leader made tremendous efforts to repair relationships with the Jewish community. I think pretty successfully after his wife is doing not only Jewish but they. They follow the Jewish festivals So he had every strong reason for needing to repair that rift and you know in the past very often the Jewish community had been seen as being Labor supporters and that certainly got away now that he can bring the. We don't know but. Try Hard and not just for political reasons not just for the sake of relatively small number Jewish votes but for the reputation of the Party and the damage that it did, she think they reports likely to put an end to this idea that there was. A campaign against Corbin and his socialist politics, and that was that was the reason behind. You highly inflated claims that you know he was an existential threat to Jewish life in this country and do you think Cubans, follow is a likely to accept the report's findings. I think not likely to accept them for the for the reason that they genuinely believe that their opposition to a lot of Israeli policies that anti-capitalism all of those things they don't see as being anti Semitic whereas the Jewish community when. You keep bringing up those names like rothschilds we ended up being a TEUTONIC trope of antisemitism. So I don't think two sides are rubber going to agree about what is or isn't antisemitism I? Think they'll go on saying that people in the Lega party Lara's they'll used antisemitism as a stick to beat. The is a pretty unfair when you see someone like Margaret Hodge when you see the complaints that she's brought forward of the attacks on her by Labor members saying outrageous things and very anti Semitic. That you know this is a feared that has roots could be a difficult few weeks, stahmer I. If he is unable to say strongly in public that he's going to accept the recommendations and yet you get this kind of grassroots backlash against it. What made me quite pleased actually because sometimes it's a good thing to have something emblematic where you stump which he did right and beginning, stamp his name on the Party and his view stumping out anti Semitism as been very much AH Bram stoker. Actions and so he may in some ways quite glad to have an opportunity to do that again though I think everybody would rather the simply went away and people forgot about this whole issue within labor and forgot that Labor was so divided because it is increasingly becoming a more united party with the Kobe tendency very much on the margins now. Sticking to another report review was commissioned by the Labor Party carried out by Dame Doreen Lawrence this week, which said that structural racism lead to disproportionate impact of Corona virus on black and Asian and minority ethnic communities and the government's own adviser honesty at Terekhov ballet said last week structural racism wasn't the reason why do you think this report is likely to change minds in Downing Street in to push the government to do more especially as we enter this what looks like quite catastrophic second wave. I think it's very difficult for doubting street to absolutely avoid what during Lawrence's saying she saying that like an Asian minority people were over exposed underprotected, badly housed a poorer. That's why they have suffered so much more the idea in the beginning a bizarre idea that there was some genetic reason why people totally different ethnic origins of all over the world who might find slightly Brandon's get somehow that's what exposed the mall to the dangerous of the virus was always absurd at geneticist would have said. So what's quite pain is that it social it's a social might be discrimination like the accident of history. The reasons why they've suffered so much a reasons one, some of the poorest white people also suffered as much. So the Government's advisor Dr Raghib. Alley. Has Been Able to say what is just being just as bad for pool white people but the point about structural racism or structural racial discrimination is that more about higher proportion black people are poor and that structural. It looks like the country as a whole is facing an incredibly difficult into those reports and record that new sage projection say the second wave will be more deadly than the first a dental saying hi throughout the winter perhaps up to five hundred deaths a day. When we know that Patrick Valance, the chief scientific advisor was criticized for saying that could reach two hundred a day by by November murty they're potentially England wide tier three lockdown before Christmas. The government is going to have to act soon if it wants to avoid this, do you think is unavoidable already? It looks pretty dismal. Doesn't it are? The worst predictions are coming through in terms in terms of deaths, and we still have the winter ahead of us. I think what we're saying is it again, Labor's been saying the government doing too little too late that they have responded exactly as they did in March that when sage cold for circuit breaker for at least a two week or three weeks shut down during the time when schools were some of the time on holiday that opportunity has been missed and that will be echoed as a very bad mistake. I think they contacted longer say we're following the science 'cause that crucial point they didn't Scotland Wales to about closing their borders to. England. which is a pretty drastic gesture I think increasing this is the Westminster government is not this right but have been Monday that's in the context of this virus sweeping right across Europe and countries that did well in the first wave doing badly now. So that you know we'll go breaking the still the worst in terms of deaths. Catching up the conservatives are still quite divided about how to do with it, and they're also fighting this. This old fight about a free school meals is over the holidays. We're now sort of halfway through off terms. So it's unlikely that there's going to be a Utah on this immediately, but that is something that's GonNa come up again at Christmas, and particularly if more places are in tier three, which is going to cause more deprivation. For families worried about their kids over Christmas and we've also seen local businesses and councils some Tory lead mandatory lead coming together to to do what the government is refusing to do why if they picked this fight polity thing? I think it up to the real sense of outrage I. Think Hungry Children. Marcus Rashford has been a brilliant politician in the sense that he hasn't said anything abusive or Abrasive about the government. He calmly keeps pointing out the hungry children exists knit buffet. The idea that government will go all the way through Christmas with hungry children seems to be unlikely so I would expect the chancellor. Reshi soon to provide something extra in his mini-budget next month, he will have to. Announce at some point that there will be, for instance, the extra money that's already been given to universal credit twenty pounds we will have to be baked permanent. It would be very difficult to actually claw back money from families in such bad trouble over Lotto related for the first time, we'll find themselves on universal credit as following ski men's will people around employed will discover with a shock quite tie low. It is one of the lowest benefit systems in criminal European countries. I. Think you'll have to provide something else and he went want look like a youtube. So it went quite a free school meals. But I think the will have to be something will maybe an increase in child benefit or the child ingredient of universal credit. This would be very welcome because we do have very low benefit rates but if they don't make some gesture I, think they will be in even worse trouble. But this is one of those breezing moments that will rather like Thatcher. The milk's not Jimmy to Kobe preschool milk from children that this is much worse. I think this will hang around the neck of for Johnson and his cabinet until the next election. and talking to the other side of spending government spending billions on a track and trace system that is really far from perfect and on wall space to be the thing that that carries through the second wave and prevented a saying such a catastrophic winter without a vaccine and we've even seen some senior Tories let Bernard Jenkins say that Dino harding who's in charge of? The program should should step down and hand over to the NHS. What the fundamental problem do we think we're the tested trae sister? Is it that you know this compliance or is it that the public has just lost lost faith in it? Just about everything that could go wrong has gone wrong. Is a mistake in the beginning to appoint somebody who was a Tory Paris. Wife of the Torian P very odd for somebody like that to be given a role literally administrative role and should go to somebody experience the public health she has experienced as business maybe it was business. The Beta form this out to private companies to set it up in the first place. Accompanied, it didn't have any experience a public health. Every single local authority has public expertise they already do it. For the beginning, they should bill matt let them employ huge numbers more people placed it with local government with better Jenkins said, give it to the NHS, not up to the right place either it really countries in the world that successful on this very strong local roots where people go knock on people's stores they knew who they are. They talked to them. They make sure they are staying at him the fact that only eleven percent of people who also to self isolate because either they've got. Virus, himselves will they've been clicked contact a Ra- Bang is disastrous because however good track traces. It's no good if people don't obey and that takes local action to make that happen. So narrator, it is a sorry tale where the results are actually going backwards which extraordinarily given the twelve billion that's spent on it already, and and obviously there's the places within the UK. There's whales particularly that. have taken a different response there in a two week firebreak lockdown, and that's not been without some criticism as well as it was a TESCO store that was forced to apologized after it wouldn't let people buy a sanitary products saying they were nonessential items and that was a mistake by the supermarket round, the wealth government but that's led to a lot of angry backlash there at I suppose the. kind the Tories, wanted to avoid here with a similar kind of lockdown. Does that sort of proves that government's got really really win with public opinion I mean very difficult because Burger height restrictions and some people megawatt Lloyd's what's been interesting right across. Britain is the extent to which public opinion polls over seventy percent keep saying we support stronger lock dance Willer the rebellious voices, the great majority? Think, it should be more and tougher and sooner other. What's interesting about Wales? It's a good thing that the Welsh going their own way because it gives us a real on the ground experiment they're having their own circuit breaker, England conc- whether we should have done that too. It's quite good to have a natural experiment. So let's hope we get some evidence. Then there can be real lessons learned. Lots to think about this week polly toby. Thanks ever so much for joining me. After the break we look how the Conservative Party can make it through rather rough patch and Rajiv style speaks to Kris Bryant? We'll be right back. Welcome back to politics weekly I'm just galgut. Now it's been rather rough month for the conservative party in fighting over how to deploy lockdown restrictions has seen many revolts pop up throughout the party, and the latest is a branch of Northern Tori pays fifty five of which sent a letter, the prime minister and cheese day, morning urging Boris Johnson to provide a clear roadmap out of lockdown. They worry that the party's election manifesto promised to level the country but the economic fallout of a new three-tier system would have a devastating impact on their communities. The deadline for securing a brexit deal is fast approaching but both the e at the UK have made it clear. The road to an agreement is looking tougher by the. And on top of this, the Conservatives decided to take on a national treasure Marcus Rashford. He re launched his campaign to extend free school meals overhaul after. It's a tough time to be a Taurean pay, but can the party do anything to turn around to discuss it? I spoke to Katie balls the deputy political editor of the spectator at Wilton Director of the Centre Right think tank UK onward and a former adviser to Theresa May. So Katie and will sort of word delusions. That is is a very, very difficult time for any party to being government and we've heard on the shape from the opposition saying. The, any government trying to deal with pandemic, but it's also hard to deny that this is potentially has been a particularly tough month with with different challenges in all in all quotas from from the cabinet to MP's to local. Local leaders to start more generally with their with the pandemic Katie. I mean it feels like it may be in the last month that was the moment where they seem to be a definitive break in the government never to about following the science. When it comes to coronavirus, there was some calls for this circuit breaker. That Boris Johnson sort of definitive seemed to have decided not not to go with what effect does that how do you think that break with the scientific the official scientific advice I? Guess letting has been interesting because a break from the scientific advice. The phrase we kept tearing in the fest I suppose stage Carina, virus when every press conference name Boris Johnson, say he was ordering signs they Toronto to say in upper entries. Omay says as a defense tactic saying well, while you get annoyed ask because we have been following the science save to not listen to sages of advice on the second break, it will entertain host. was quite imported change in strategy and it's something that law Satori MP's have wanted to see for ages that will meeting away from at just taking what stage says will even at various medical devices within the government was seen as a welcome break however once again you see. Boris Johnson by trying to chart this middle ground where he's not completely listening to what sage says actually doesn't Tori appease anyway. So at plenty of terrain MP's, he would like to see you kate copied purchase Sweden and I think that will that Boris Johnson didn't follow all of Sage's advice. This free ticket system is far more restrictive than many in his party would like is i. think it just show that the difficulties of navigating such approach well Tour MP is it more about an ideological belief that people should take responsibility for their own lives and take risks or is it? You know much more practical consideration about the economy? How much slack there is in the in the system? How much the businesses really can withstand on how much longer it can go on for? A bit of a combination of both well I think there is a range of opinion within the conception peltier and there are certainly some who would actually argue the prime minister should go further. However I think you're right. There is a large contingent of hooah uncomfortable with the states restricting the behavior individuals and I think that stems from from both of the concerns you outline I think people do feel that there is a need for people to take responsibility for their actions and for rules to follow common sense as well. I think there is. A deep feeling amongst some MP's that the rules are in many ways going against the grain of people's behavior in seeking to kind of influence them in ways which actually the ever since the way in which people normally live their lives and that's bad for compliance means that people just don't follow those rules but I think there is a very, very real concern amongst conception about the economy in the state of businesses which employ large number of people in their constituencies I think for me this is the this is the reason lots and lots of conservative peace. Now being much more vocalist during the first wave of the virus and especially when this felt like a temporary phenomenon. He's willing to get on board with US. But now the the virus is raring had again we're seeing a steep second wave are lots of 'em who just just don't feel the businesses in that constituencies can weather the storm again especially, when is kind of has has a bit of a undisclosed We don't know how long this is going to go on for that deeply deeply of economic impact of of this wave wants to do everything possible to keep us businesses, and so the range of opinion within the concept does exist and I think it would be wrong to suggest all considered fan pays wrote that view that all set new some Pretty, pro. Restrictive measures. At the moment, we saw maybe the last major result revolt that was in parliament, and there may be another one a real range of the kinds of conservative MP's who wanted to see parliament get more power over these restrictions. So that four sports bay essentially to concede that, MP's would have that vote. Next time there are major UK or England wide restrictions but those you know we saw that we saw terrible divisions during the Brexit Saga but they always sort of went along the same lines and this time you saw you saw sort of centrist Tori MP's lining up with one of the most Har- hard line lockdown skeptics to say actually MP's do need more power and it was kind of presented. The Time Katie is may be. A. Prime Minister losing the confidence of his back benches and so soon in a a term where he's got a significant majority and do you think that that's that's true that he's lost that confidence in kind of be clued back I think as she say, he knicks at the Ranger Tori MP's MP's backed the Brady amendment from One Nation Tories to Libertarian Tories it showed this wasn't just confined to one section of the Party and. Clearly. Something that worried number ten enough the even the speaker can cool that amendment invites they they needed to at provides something to try and get people back on side. Now, some of the names heat that sign this amendment would not say much doing site because they wanted a change to a Swedish approach because no matter where he sat in the debate, there was A. General sense that the way number ten handles things at is one which has a lack of respect time but MP's on the road apartments and I think that is something that does unite Kennedy every section of the Tory party. I. Think Letdown Down Extreme benefited in the pastas latest lots of unhappy story piece is not hard to find one is quite haunt find something that they can. Unite around, they will have different interests and I think the has been an acknowledgement in dining street that the party management is bad and it cannot continue like this I'm that's why actually unite hearing multiple stories of the Prime Minister Meeting with MP's breakfast guy into the tea room would dinners will drinks or even just phone calls a lot more of that going on is. It currently effective I think if you speak to people who've gone into the meet this meetings, some going through the motions than there actually be listened to by think the very fact is happening shows at a there is appropriate to the prime minister team acknowledged have appropriate him on I think if you rerun the election result of majority of eighty, many would not be that. One of the the sort of stockists device I guess is, is this an end in the country as well as this north-south divide? Willis, opened up a twee particularly since the launch of the three to restriction system. But it it was that before anyway, and this comes alongside the government's main manifesto pledge to level the country and you the could not be a more stock opposite what currently seeing at the moment, and now we have this intervention in the northern research group. How much did that that worry? Downing Street wilty think. Well I think it's reflective of the changing nature consecutive polity. Last year's election result really did change. Not just the geographic distribution of conservative seats but the nature of seats the Conservative Party represents and so I think the kind of factionalism. Around Beth the northern research group in number other research groups that have been set up in recent weeks reflects the fact that the Conservative Party is changing and the MP's the the site within parliament a much more willing to add to defend the kind of new interests of that party than perhaps don extreme told the leadership has historically understood. I. Also think another problem. Downing Street's is. That this is a parliament forged in rebellion. Of course, it was only lost yet Boris Yeltsin himself was a leading rebel against at Theresa May's governments and many of senior cabinet ministers cited against a conservative government alongside him So it's difficult for this Downing Street to push back on some of these factional attacks from from their inside, we need to be thinking about this in terms of. The providence. This has kind of building actually. Creating redress some of this historic abundances within our economy and I think that's what people jake. Research Group for their asking for more than just words they're asking for action from the prime minister as soon as possible in order to get a head start till not that huge huge challenge rather than just waiting for the virus to do its damage and leaving the country even more divided than it was before. Katie. It's I've I've heard it said the actually is, is this this group of Red Woollen pays? Who are the people that the prime minister is prepared to listen to the most that the people he kind of prizes the most in parliament and so did. The intervention of this group of MP's will make a big difference to the prime minister is thinking. Yes I, do think say to degree and it's interesting with November research group. Jake Berry he set up he is an old ally at longtime supporter Boris Johnson at fashion. It brought somebody welcomed this great seeing his friend day. But anything which ends research grief is particularly he's in the Tory putts. I'm for prime minister you of what European Research, group Don and the China research intensive hallways. I I, think this will be something they pay. Attention to than some other grapes that I think one of the difficulties is because this seems like a temporary crisis we know that boardrooms doesn't want to return to as spending cut Sweden taking taxes he wants to cut taxes but the cost of this ongoing crisis means I think they're of using government at Haggi cannot keep spending nichols happening with the spending the being from hold to to in extent and I think that does threaten his level of agenda. Even, people won't even more I. Think there are plenty of people in government who can send the by the time on election like you're not gonNA BE UPSET IN A. Much work is going to have to put it in to keep some of these areas as they once had a fooling bag. That agenda is getting even more difficult to to deliver on annihilating anyone in government has announced it right now. With all these massive issues, the government has to contend with it seems like such or decision to see the row we've seen over the last week to take on someone like Marcus? Rashford footballer. He's made this Meta moated motive campaign of Free School meals to have your MP's vote against it, and then to see them take such a public backlash will what will be the thinking behind taking dishonors issue and making this the key 'cause for to say, no money can be spent. Well. I think I think there are two things motivating government's decision will metro new decision last week which was Firstly a quite strongly held view amongst some conservative MP's that it is families in parents responsibility note the states to provide meals for children during during holiday time. Regardless with not agree with and then and then the second point I think he's at Treasury view, which is typical treasury view that doing this again, having done it in the would create a precedent for it to be done in every school day from from heroin but I think the government has been really undone but if that failed to make any of those arguments in public, really. It was left largely to buck backbench MP's last week, and as a result I think there were lots of concern pc feel quite exposed by this issue and feel like whatever the kind of Moreland intellectual case against introducing preschool meals on holidays. They haven't had that made on their behalf by the government that will It puts a huge amount of pressure on them. Luckily I think they may be quite legitimate arguments against it or favorable that ways of combating. Jose hunger like the be escaping, which it seems might be looking to it. But. None of that has actually been been kind of productivity pushed down the street to white not to the extent of end piece would want leaving leaving MP's to kind of fend for themselves a bit which is created resemble the back benches. Unless, there is another you turn on this we probably not presented as a youtube. It might be as as we just mentioned this Henry Dimbleby, the founder of Leon, his idea by expanding play and holiday clubs where children are provided with a meal during the holidays. But do you think this is something that voters will remember until the next election? Is that something the only people who aren't going to vote conservative anyway care about or is this conserved against their NPR's on? The next election is why the way it's haunted to wet Karnei, what a row this study on his entity, but I mean it's getting on health in the sense of people. Have, a view over a stereotype of. Evil Tory government I think the government on a innovated blind in the sense that I think why they home a straight you ten on this while there are some Tory. MP's he recently rated with the government on it saying they regretted and they would support Youtube I think that the government was if as a lot of fury from tour MP's you'd say. This government cannot be trusted told famine policy that was a pattern to Italy over the summer of the government near taking a stance and then changing very quickly policy and that creates lack of trust between employees and leadership nobody wants to combat for the government on the media. If they didn't think they think they're gonNA get criticism and then two days later, the government's going to accept the change anyway. So I think the nominee blind in the sense that if they d- do something that looks much like Tad is GonNa create bad will stay diet as already again in that lose lose position Boris Johnson keeps finding himself open. Katie said the next elections a time away in between now, and then it's also going to be added risk if you like for the government of the fallout from brexit and particularly, if Boris Johnson isn't able to deliver again on the on the promise of a deal but he has said he will how how big is the potential for that to really damage the party or is it actually going to be something that he can unite the Conservative Party, which is now pretty much united around Brexit, and also. Around the need to potentially go for a no deal practice if that's what's necessary well, I think the the policies say is is pretty ideologically united behind and ended will cost says, well, identity. There are many caveats to that However, I don't think we should underestimate the scale of difficulties that they will face in the the difficulties that were lost for months with regard to customs, arrangements businesses funding to add to trade with the EU and And the need to quickly stand up a series of trade deals with major trading partners as well of that executive pressure on the government if it did come to plus my personal view is that there is another side to this coin, which is the there is a possibility occupied strong possibility will a deal in which case that could be quite a significant kind of flip sides at public opinion and and and support for the government within conservative. It's a very interesting time at the moment for the government because they all been criticized independent that can have been criticized on brexit and they're all. Clearly. Signs of tension emerging in newspapers. But at the same time, if you false pool it three or four weeks, for example, and a vaccine, significantly Nara and a brexit deal is on the cards than actually bars. Johnson's fourteen taty reversed and he looks like he's in a very, very strong position. So we already kind of strange tipping point. I think in public and political opinion the moment about this government. And it really in the next month, say we will probably establish whether or not. This government is going to be quite successful government or government that will be on the back foot from relatively early on in it's ten years is a fascinating moment in history Katie tables at the spectator and Wilton director of UK on with. Thank you so much for joining me. Thanks so much for having me. Thank you. My thanks to Katie balls and Wilton of there. Now Chris Brian is the chair of the Committee on standards which considers the conduct of MP's the work of the commission standards and the register financial interest for MP's best off and journalists. He also chairs the Committee of privileges. The MP. For Rhonda's also a former Church of England Vika and a self-confessed political nerd who was actually read the dense parliamentary procedure tax erskine may he underwent surgery for skin cancer last year and is releasing a book next month, which reveals the untold story of Gay and bisexual British politicians and their bravery in the Second World War. As part of our mini series to try and learn more about the work they select committees do the Guardians Whitehall correspondent, spoke to Chris earlier in the week I presume you're talking to us from Wales Chris. Yes. I'm sitting under five break lockdown in pulse in older and amazingly raining. Wow. But I mean, you've got into a two week five right lockdown last week and you had a rather heated discussion with talk radio host Don Morton about the. Need for local lockdowns g think the government has enough confidence behind the message at the moment take convince ticks damages. Oh, I think to Westminster government kind of lost the plot earlier on this year when they refused to sack dominant cummings, it just felt as if that was one rule Phil Boris's friends and another over everybody else and the second Broden test and trace system which Westminster has been so woefully mishandled I feel angry about it but. I do not deny that it is a serious problem that is far more infectious rather than flew more people die of it the with flu and the idea that you can just somehow just let the buyers run. Riot, I think is profoundly morally role just to return to your standards. Rolling. The refusal of the end SMP ferrier to stand down after breaching Cova travel restrictions as highlighted. Once again, have difficulty can be to force men pay stand. Even when she's broken the spirit of the Lord Self, she is fighting demands across the has for resignation pleading for Foreign Party leader. But met said, it will not prosecute because the new legal requirement to slight in England under the health. Protection Regulations Twenty Twenty came into force on the day of her journey. cheesy twenty, nine, th of September, and so they didn't apply to because she actual test three days earlier. Is it your understanding that because the police inquiry has folded? She is now under investigation by the Commission for Standards and could the case come before your committee because I'm chaired the committee, which effectively adjudicates on investigations that are being conducted by the parliamentary commission standards who is an independent figure? It will be wholly wrong for me to speculate as the weather we might be dealing with a case so we might not be doing with the case ended need to standing orders with Isaac, Commons specify that we're not allowed to do. So I would make point that Margaret Ferry has referred to the parliamentary commissioners standards, and so we'll see where that goes as far as. Sending questions about our pollock should trade and pays who are facing serious sexual assault claims and says a Taurean pay facing right allegation has not had the whip removed suspended and it reminds voluntary massive a him that has angered unions on the alleged victim. So she should be changed well, that whole system has been changed in recent months because we've created the ICS witches are. Appointed, independent ex or we are in the practice of appointing an independent expert panel of people who will be adjudicating on those kind of cases. One of the most important and most difficult issues for us to get raw it is that we have as a committee signed up to a memorandum with the Metropolitan Police on behalf of. All the places in the United Kingdom, which says that we will not even investigate an issue where the police are already engaged because there might be a danger that we would be harming narrow investigation, which could in the end under undermine a possible prosecution reluctant to that I think in two thousand nineteen. Leader, the has hundred leads imported mission to hide the names of MP's Bain investigators pumped inquiring sexual harassment bullying, but subsequently deleted inquiries into all MP's under investigation. Secondly that? There is no transparency. Who is currently being investigated And therefore, others who may have related allegations that come forward. To say, those names put back into the public domain at some point. Will. We think that we should change the systems. The committee produced a report a few weeks ago cooling on the government to change back to a system where at least the commissioner should be able to confirm or deny whether she is undertaking an investigation fulling allegation and the cats agree of offense that that that will be under that used to be the system in the past. It seems crazy that we now to give the instance we've already referred to Margaret Ferry has says she is revolted yourself to the on education if Assad is but the parliamentary commission standards cannot say whether or not she's had that case referred to clearly that's we need to change it. Modifications to the code of conduct. Would you like to say it seems to be on the face of it as A bit of a mismatch between the code of conduct on the Behavior Code, we have in the House of Commons, which applies obviously tool MP's and the ministerial code of conduct because ministers have to report some things every six months MP's have to report things every within twenty eight days, but I'll just give you one example. I remember once going to Wimbledon as guest all the lawn, tennis association, and sitting in the row bulks tickets cost I don't know. Several thousand ATMs and so I have to register that but the Minnesota it was sitting next to me didn't have to register it because the minister says I was invited simply as a as a minister not as an MP. So only think Aurora areas where we were actually doing a major review of the code of conduct to the moment there are areas where we could better mesh together the various different codes that apply to MP's because in the end, every member of the public wants full transparency about. The decisions, the MP's make weather as backbench Zora's ministers. But it's funny. You say that because with several very lengthy enquiries into ministerial. As of his on going on now into Pretty Patel which have been kicked into the long grass for months at a time and. Concern Ministers are getting away with that. Is that something that your particularly tencent back with this government ministers should be under greater scrutiny rather than less scrutiny than ordinary members of parliament because they exercise our on behalf of the all it seems bizarre to me that the ministerial code of conduct the only rule seems to Blah is whether the prime minister wants to keep you in office. So note nothing else matches every other aspect. Of It is swept under the carpet old completely ignored and yes I think it is utterly wrong that if a full investigation into bullying by a minister has been conducted and completed that it should not be published in full that would certainly be the case if this had been an incident that occurred on the parliamentary state or related to any member of the parliamentary community, right and just to make that clear you've launched an inquiry. Into that heavy we have launched a guardians of the whole of the code of conduct, the Parliamentary Commissioner for Standards Required to draw a new code of conduct or view. It's every new Holland. She wasn't able to do it in the bottom because last parliament didn't last long enough said this. Time seven years that has been a full review, the code of conduct we are seeking the views of the public on what you think should change is that mold empty should be declaring all the other things that you think should be more aligned. Those are the kind of questions that we're asking. You'll commit a before. You're a chair was has been criticized for still being dominated by. Pays, which effectively means that MP's modern homework. Aside, the allegation goes look at the current list of members. There are seven MP's and five life members and unions whose members have alleged bullying and sexual harassment in the past have cold full lyman this to dominate the committee instead isn't it time for the committee to be reformed the lion members to be given? Control the standing orders say that we should be seven lay members than seven MP's the CIA incidentally is an myself doesn't get to vote. So the delay member should have a majority. Unfortunately, the leader of the house full months now has been refusing to bring full with the motion to appoint two new members of the committee on I'm mystified by why Jacob Smoke simply refuses to bring forward these two additional members because then we would have a majority exactly as you say, thank you very much for coming on the program then. The Privileges, committee is charged with looking at contempt of parliament such as lying to parliament. And witnesses refusing to come and give evidence. This has been an ongoing battle over the years because think Dominic Cummings and others who have. apple. At being defensive or When they folded Mitzi, we ought determined to crack this not, and so we're doing inquiry will not as well about the powers of Poland's to make sure that people attend and it may be that we end up going in the same direction is in the United States of America Australia New Zealand where they have Harland has power subpoena, which is then taken up by the Coles when to expect this to happen. Well, we would. Challenged with doing it mock predescessor was jaws with doing it several years ago and I'm hopeful that we might manage to get something done by the end of the bringing you do expect to conclude that. It would be fun titus to full. Committees. Some witnesses I'm certain we will end up with the view that has to be some volve being able to fool witnesses to attend and will provide. Apis at the question is just how a not so lucky Chris Pride thanks very much for joining me on Politics Wheatley. Thank you. Big. Thanks to chief Sil- Kris Bryant there. But that's all from us this week next week, we're GONNA take a break from the usual UK politics podcasts because there will be a lot of news coming out of the US as the presidential election finally takes place next Tuesday night. Jonathan Freedland, we'll be joined by colleagues in the US to cover what we know the victor it promises to be a bumper weeks make sure to follow it on the politics weekly feed. Date wary heather will be back the week after to report the latest from. Westminster. But for now I want to thank our guests putty Toby Rajiv style we'll Tana Katie Bulls Kris Bryant the PA-. Jesus would Daniel Stevens and ESTA APOKA Jedi. I'm Jessica got please look after yourself and thanks for listening. For more great podcasts from the Guardian, just go to the GUARDIAN DOT COM, slash podcasts.
Episode 117 Naomi Duncan CEO Chefs in Schools charity
"Welcome to the podcast wet together every monday. We explore hospitality in its berry broader sense from cultural and cooking cocktails and coughing nutrition and farming politics on animal welfare organic and sustainability family and business entrepreneurship and much much more commonly with me mark. Crip about where our food and drink comes from and the businesses and more importantly the human beings thrive on where we decide to spend our time and money sign up to a weekly newsletter. Humans of hospitality coated uk and hit. Subscribe on your podcast player of choice. Welcome to this week's conversation where i'm exceptionally excited to be chatting to naomi dunkin. Who is the chief. Executive of the charity chefs in schools. And in my humble opinion this is an awesome conversation. That should be heard by as many people as possible. Although of course like obsolete adore hospitality and the amazing world of food and drink. There's no getting away from the fact that as a species we humans have a problem we are. We have one of the highest obesity rates in the world in the uk and therefore. I often question my role as a restaurant. And whether i am making the situation worse part of the reason for this podcast existence is for me and hopefully you to learn to try and find out where is the sweet spot between loving food and drink but not wanting to destroy the planet or make people sick so i go off on a journey every single week and chat to people about their chosen niche or area of expertise. And i've learned so much. I don't have all the answers but i like to consider myself pretty well informed and with a genuine the insatiable curiosity to continue that adventure and learning journey. What is pretty obvious is that we need to improve our relationship with food species. We need to understand more about why we die that all too often makes both us and the planets but we also need to celebrate the incredible things that can happen around food and hospitality. The connections made the time with friends and loved ones the breaking bread and all too often the very reason for being is the social interactions. That happened around hospitality and being hospitable. So there's so much to gain and so much to learn shortly it makes sense to start this journey as early as possible. As really from birth and not long after birth starts education of course home and then maybe nursery and ultimately a pretty longtime at schools. Surely this is the place to improve knowledge on food on what we should he to inspire a life. Long love the whole food and to understand the difference between real food. I'm process food to understand that. Food is essential for life and the in the modern world. Nobody should be going hungry. So try and fathom how on earth is possible for the same areas struck by food poverty and lack of access to food too at the same time be suffering from diabetes and obesity jews to the shocking quality of the food that may be available. It's just so bloody obvious. How on earth of we allowed ourselves have an education system to spend so little time on the one thing we put in our bodies every single day. The nourishes us that gives us energy that fuels bodies and we cannot achieve our potential either individually or as a collective in less fuel ourselves efficiently account. Really understand how we're getting it so wrong but as always. I'm some bloody excited about the potential for us to do it better and luckily we don't need to start from scratch. Since jamie oliver told us about what turkey twizzlers we've at least been on an upward trajectory of knowledge of understanding that the situation is broken and we need to focus on improvement and change but it is taking time and that's frustrating. But i like to believe the trajectory is at least positive and actually through covert the hospitality sector and people like marcus. Rash would have really helped ensure that food poverty and access to food at school has stayed in the limelight and they only duncan and chefs in. Schools are right in the midst of the beating heart of this debate and trailblazing. Some of the improvements that can be made they will soon be working with over seventy schools predominant in london but with grand plans to work with or inspired by a transformation across thousands if not tens of thousands of schools now in this chat we dive into understanding what the problem with school food is. How have we ended up here. What should be done. What can be done and in fact is already being done the impact that naomi and the chefs in schools team are having is exceptional and very exciting where the helping get fully trained restaurant style chefs into schools or working with existing teams. They are focused. Not only on providing better food in the canteens but working with the curriculum in educating children and inspiring them around what good food can look like. But whatever you do don't cool. The food healthy since they've learned the hard way fat concern the average teenager off huge amount and i hope many of you listening will be inspired to speak to your local schools. If you're a parent perhaps you can ask better questions if your kid's school but if you work in the sector why not reach out to your local school and see if you can help. I've personally found working with my local primary school and inspiring and teaching children about real food and seasonality and presentation and the ethics of food has been hugely entertaining and exceptionally rewarding. Right before we get on with the show. Can i just ask if you enjoy this episode or other episodes. Can you please do me to pretty quick favors. Can i head over to humans of hospitality dot code uk and sign up to the weekly newsletter. When every monday morning. I will send you a short email about this week's guest with some useful links about any websites or social media channels or points of interest that come up whilst we are chatting that'll save you the hassle of trying to remember whilst listening and i promise i won't share data and hassle you for anything else and whilst you there if you can make a donation to support this podcast. There are two very useful buttons one for pay power for some one of support and the patron for some easy monthly support. If everyone listening just paid a five a couple of cups of coffee a month. I could make this podcast a whole lot. More awesome with more time to chat more gas and travel to meet in person some great hosting recording and promotional kits. I promise i would invest it wisely. Secondly could you please pick up your podcasts. Player unsubscribe rate review and share. This podcast with your network. The more i can demonstrate a potential guests. How many people are listening and enjoying these compensations. The easier is for me to convince them to spare an hour in their diary to have a chat so the better reviews the better guests. And the more you will enjoy these compensation. It's all round win win. Plus you'll make me very happy. Okay thank you so much. Let's get over a meet naomi. Naomi duncan chief executive of the charity chefs in schools. Thank you so much for joining me on the podcast. Today hugely appreciated. Can you just tell people listening. So how are you and where are you in the world please. Naomi sure yes so. Thank you very much. And i am very well. Thank you very busy. Life is all busy chefs in schools. Where is currently in little venice on a canal boat as about this before we started so you live on a boat which is ridiculous but at the same time feels like kind of lovely. I waste Piece in london. I think that's perfect. Because he had london camby be crazy. But it's beautiful. Isn't it once down the canals. I remember i used to live in london. I think it was amazing. Just a world pa that you can look the city. And then i remember those beautiful areas of the canals and the kind of trees and the grouse. It was lovely so yeah nightspot the world ending each good. Thank you so much for joining me. So i often in this podcast sort of end up chatting to people who have a particular interest because into all areas of hospitality. So whether that's the rest of the chefs but all too often but uses and quite often get into a sort of ecological environment nutritious veganism all sorts of conversations. It kind of haven't really got back to the roots of this and all of this all of these challenges and opportunities. I suppose around food really boils back to cates as the most things i suppose. Because that's the future so i'm really excited to try and understand what what's going on with children and food and schools and all that sort of stuff but before we talk specifically about what chefs in schools. Do i don't understand. So what's the problem. I suppose why you exist in. What's happening. Can you just explain a little bit to me about in. What's going on out. There in schools will just children in general with regards to food. Sure and i think. I think he got the cut. You've hit the nail on the head right we can deal with own. If s we saw changing habit mcnutt each. We're not to change. How the and i think that's kind of cool. Cool to our principles is in get kits mold them and teach them to love real food and actually nicaraguans adult sue of feeding interested in cooking growing it in enjoying it so i guess in terms of the problem out there. I don't think we can escape the kind of reality. The entire western world has a problem with Related disease and that's kind of where where we started was thinking. How do you how do you have an impact. You can't solve everything was school. Food have an impact on childhood obesity. Had you start reducing that that in how do you stop turning into kind of adult unhealthy. Relationships with food and so that was kind of the founding principal was if we teach. It's about foods in school if we take the concept that in school kids learning much more than just signs master learning social interaction dining how to get on with each other that landing kind of schools at also soft skills outside of coeducation shorty foods cost of that and surely we have really great opportunity. Swing kids to school in school to give the medication about food and so our model is based around thinking that actually food that you eat in the dining room and how you eat too and the interaction that you have that is much vegetation as anything else is happening in school. So how do you take food in. Schools is quite often. It's outsourced when it is so schools kind of think. Oh well that's for the caterer to deal with. And how do you bring it back into the central school. And so that that was that was kind of where we started growing from there into thinking about feeding schools goes beyond just the immediate need for nutrition. But it's also in some cases when you boil it backs a free school meal could be the only meal that child each day so there are so many different reasons why school food matters and why we should pay a bit more attention to it and so that i guess is what we're trying to do trying to cut a bit of a ground up revolution in terms of housing's deng and then thinking also about how how important scofield isn't how we change the conversation around. Yeah amazing so so just to understand. This is the little bit more before we get into the solution as this change because because it makes it's almost incomprehensible to understand why we don't educate people children around food in the Obviously you'd think stickney primary education. The key thing is trying to come out with a nice human. That's what we're trying to with. But maybe more than an educated human Slighted it opens. I should say that my my wife's such a primary school teachers. We chat about stuff quite a lot. I guess around you know what what what are we supposed to be doing. Testing the also. Were actually helping them be good. Humans is this changed over time. Historically will we better than this one was food part of the curriculum. If you go by seventy eight years is this. Is this a new problem or actually of we. We never really nailed this in all the time that we've been helping children become adults. I think i think he's gonna journey back their things. The school feed yourself as education around food. And we're quite interested in linking the two and saying actually consider the is one and teach kids about food and faint them the that you teach him about. If you see what i mean but i think if if you go back even if you go back to thirty inches things are different and kids. Who being different skills in school so to how to if things like domestic domestic science as it was to teach kids about new bit about how south budgeting how to make basic foodstuffs at the same time. Feeding school was treated quite differently and probably more like forty years ago. You know three to school was treated Germany was fresh made in germany. Was you know Outsource to the same degree. That is today And i i. I feel like it's things have gonna quite a bit verona. Costa there was kind of the implementation of this wonderful thing called compulsive best tendering which i don't need to explain to lots of people but effectively meaning. The law schools are encouraged to outsource the provision and then within the marketplace. A lot pressure then put on the market to continue see reduce costs which inevitably leading to kind of a of school kitchens and not let reduction in food quality. And then you had this big Swinging at laurean jameel team out a fifteen twenty s Hold on this has gone too. Far and kids are now being fed Surely that's not right so there was this kind of wonderful moment that the high entire country guy who actually maybe we'll have rethink so there was a big improvement then in terms of standards lots of cardiff slightly misleading press around pattern shutting burgers threw balls school. Which wasn't achy that accurate representation of what happened but it leads it. Did it lead to improvement. Fresh foods being introduced in schools. But maybe not so much focus on the education and then about six or seven years ago. Our chair henry dimbleby cairo. The school food cotton which led to amongst other things. See introduction of things that you invested. Preschool will out who Younger children in primary schools. Get completely free school meal it. Let's get getting rid of this kind of nutrition me by sway of creating menu which was very and technical base acumen that chefs had to tight menu into a computer system to work out the precise bannon suf- macro micronutrients and was kind of sucking innovation out souvenir development and it also led to school cooking in schools. Being put back on the curriculum is a requirement children up to key stage three so just when entering secondary school have to included about cooking. suites Gone on a journey. And i i would be lying if i saw him today and said oh everything's terrible in every everywhere assist doing beige boring food. But i guess we think this still too many schools. Not -cially despite the improvements. There is a kind of emphasis on in kitchens. Kind of pocket mixes and beige food. Being served up the council on counters and feeding in costumes the not being tour to tool or when it is to being around kind of things like cakes and trade bikes and make a basic free solid and not really giving kids the skills when they leave schools to be able to cook properly for themselves. So yeah i think. I think that's probably where we all have been. Big improvements has been trailblazers. Come before and we just kind of now coming in and saying actually they're always doing things differently. Still that can make even better. Yeah okay makes sense. I guess a lot of this as well. You know so thinking about as you were chatting is that this move to sort of over processed food and the type of food that was in schools was really just reflecting what was going on out screens as well as you get. Forty fifty s. Everybody was making fresh. Fade was there wasn't really processed food. Food was made in fact resources towards schools just sort of ran in parallel and hopefully the same thing is happening But i guess it's happening nations in. Some people are becoming increasingly sensitive about whether food comes from. And whether whether it's fresh whether it's process whole foods whether it's will ganic but at the same time there is still a lot of shit out there as well as the excuse my french. What is the sort of the health side of you've got this policy side of is while so i think i was reading the one point. Three million kids today qualify for free school meals but it's full million children potentially living in food insecure households. What does that mean. What's your understanding around the sort of the welfare and unpublicized food. I think i think the to kind of inextricably linked right because she needs to the areas with the highest levels ashamed economic deprivation and you find that levels of childhood obesity on should offer higher than anywhere else in the poorest areas when three kids leaving primary school i pace and you compare that across. The country is one in five which is still completely unacceptable. It's the problems is so much a much harder to tackle in the core series and it's a insert disproportionately way to that way. Which is why. I kind of got to a meal in school is really important because not only opportunity to educate on the opportunity to contrition Essentially trials earning meal. doesn't solve case Children in tax free school meals. There definitely kids who come into school. Not having had breakfast that they really rely on that meal which makes importance get it right. And yes the. She'd given a completely accurate. So one point three million children pre pandemic into a the opportunity of prenatal school. It's now more than four million kids living in feeding skew households. So i guess one of the one of the things that shifts in schools are doing along with Twenty and jason cigna sections is campaigning to get the recommendations for the national strategy implemented in one of which which hasn't been touched yet is extending free school meals so old kids in Households have the ability to have that meeting school. You know we seen it firsthand. But i don't dwell too much shawn cartridge. Because i'm sure we're sick of it. But during the during the pandemic when the minute scores shop because Predominantly five scenarios kind of session probation. We realized kinda straightaway. This could be a loss of free school kids who on guessing that meal in school but families here in a similar situation so we kind of reinvented ourselves Producing these emergency food possibles throughout our and it just kind of even closer to the reality of it so we were talking to families. We've took him to kate's eleven eleven twelve year. Old kids will warrant school thinking know. I'm the person that's meant to make sure that my little sister gets foods and we don't have food Really worried and i just think around schofield puppeteer a pretty shaming. Actually an asset. You can't solve everything with food. But it does come a long way to making sure that axa staff this heartbreaking to understand the severity of the problem was guess there was an opportunity there to get right into the coalface an end to learn about it. Why does does the government understand what's going on. And why have they not managed to resolve. This is it to halt or is there a lack of effort. I mean i think he's i think he's pretty complicated. I think we could bash. Successive governments will different colors for solving the problem of child poverty. You know it's it's this is a new problem and i think it's gonna take a cut a political consensus to be able to to get to three. Do you think there is being. I think that it's the government entirely wants to dismiss. The problem. set doesn't exist. I think madison awareness. A i think the problem is really complicated If you take one of the recommendations in the national fees shush cheese extended families of who in receipts universal credit and shamim advancing that becomes quite complicated government. Because it's linked to all sorts of other funding. That schools gets trying to walk away in which you can deal with some of the of of Trophy prophecy without than messing pollutants linked. Systems it just become complicated whether they should know excuse to tackle it. And i guess what we're trying to do with with these other organizations. He's just keep up pressure. When you know. It's not going away. And i wanna be down because i think there's lots of reasons to be posted at the but it's not so the economic situation is going to get better east kind of continue squeezing those the poorest Now is like the right moment. We've got the momentum we quote people publicly interested in it if got the will of the people behind you this is good spent you know gucci of tax money. Let's see something to tackle it Interesting you're right around the complexity around sort of a free school meals and how it impacts. The rest of the school was as a school governor on a promise go for five years and it used to blow my mind the all too often when we were talking about in our budget was going to be for the following year that it was be linked to the extra funding the came about as a result of your how many kids have qualify for free school meals on and as you also get additional funding for lots of other support in school and it just seemed bonkers particularly since not always people who may qualify for free school meals don't even actually claim them and as a result this goal doesn't get the money for all of the other things they should be doing. So you'll ri- it seems crazy. We shouldn't give up on that. It can't be that hard to resolve. But they're all things that people probably had absolutely no idea and every time the heads each tried to explain it to me i it blew my mind complexity of it but fundamentally you would say then there's a lot of people who should be you would like all primary schools children to get free school meals at at the moment. That's not the case. There was a qualifying criteria. And you would see that qualify qualifying criteria as being too limited. I'll take it one hundred percent. I mean in my heart of hearts personal view. Roth official stance taking chefs in schools. I would like kids to be getting a free meal. Because i think i i wouldn't see as being a freeman of would see is being a condom extension of education. You haven't seen shunichi through a meal in school to shake a child's eating habits us to have the opportunity to get immediate asymmetric disputants them and you'll also have opportunity for the city benefits that can have behavior on a tight but It helps them concentrate more often. That has benefits. Who behavior entertainment as well. I just can't see anything. Could it be solved by making sure Two of the costs Passing think his in the while bucks as that's that's that superpipe team the moment the focus has to be on making sure that thanks you literally cannot afford and he otherwise might go without the hassle beautified this and then very shortly going to move into the s solution part of the solution with what you're doing so last bit of trying to understand the problem and it and it really got me thinking over the last couple of days whilst i was doing some reading around this is that there's a billion pounds a year spent on pack lunches and the those quite often. No i think it was the stats was only one percent of those. Were considered to be sort of nutritionally acceptable and if parents actually invested that money into school lunches than it would solve the problem because they've enough cash going around to support food in school hadn't really comprehended that because my passing crackdown and i'm going to be motivated to go to. Mike is gallo lopate more involved. But i guess the perception of a lot of parents is that they're doing their kids favorite by not allowing the kids to go any. Will they receive as rubbish school that. Make him a pat lunch. And actually we're in this sort of self fulfilling cycle. So i guess that's changed as well. The number of kids actually paying for school meals. That's that's gone down over the is it definitely and actually you completely right about the Tracing cycling team is the next pirates that pay less money there is in the system. The more contracts is and outsourced in schools. Have to drive down the cost at in doing so. You get less. People want Horrendous vicious cycle so. I'm always up for initiatives put more money into the system and then having really really good guidelines that make sure that that food nutrition me balance and then having read it could operate Pretty great food but you do need to have money icing on the system to make that happen at the as she say this i think the kind of one of the Pundit has been a reduction in people. Eating meals in school will not only going to kind of make. The problem was so yeah. It's strictly really you have to get parents. Sculptured sin to get parents confident. So we we as chefs in schools. Our our model women who schools. He's wearing courage in them to make school meals compulsory where they come and say as she wants. She got the parents confidence once. You happy defeats goods. It's nutritious kids. Enjoy it's guy down the rate of saying you know popular the school which then makes it financially sustainable for the school to have a decent check into kitchen producing decent food. Now you're absolutely right. And i think most parents would want that you know so. I've got eleven thirteen year over year. Both both secondary school. There's clearly issues going on route because the school had been sending out some surveys recently around caffeine usage but my natural perception would probably have been what. It's probably more about what i know. My kids would shoes mold. And maybe what's available. I would presume that the has to be some sort of nutritious option at the school but my even a restaurant so it would drive me absolutely insane that my also given the choices is gonna go for the chips and chicken nugget over the veggie. Sonia whatever it might be is there. Is there a kind of a sort of a kite. Marco accreditation where the is this where teachers parents could quite easily get outlook. My school got that that means. I know that you know they care about food. I know that following a certain guidelines and as a result ongoing support it or in essence. All schools do that anyway because there is national guidance. So that's good fresh. I want to say one thing. And i'm not sure it's going to be entirely troops to the route so there isn't accreditation out there. That's in my head. I think it's a ten thousand. Schools isn't considerable announced him soon. Association have a program called fee for life. Which was that. She is stopped by these kind of school. Fade quietness genetic. By about about fifteen years ago and that croatian you could with confidence and say that you use it Scoop it sounded so being followed the being cured in a way that might make you happy an epsom general quality by signs as well. I think it's really hard with any accreditation. And i think i think i think the risk that you don't have that kind of thing but might still have great food so i think i mean a lot of schools. Offer the opportunity for parents coming in have don't offer. I always think that's really small thing to do. Because it kind of takes some of it. And i i guess i wonder May be unquestioned. Brought to you as a parent around is it. The case parents think the food in schools is isn't good and do they just accepts that that's the case. 'cause i guess i have a question about what we just. The school food isn't pretty good. Because we all late rubbish region. School wilson signed. Maybe we just think we try to say you're never gonna convince parents have rubbish Today can be dramatically different other than what your focus Yet my experiences probably makes know. I guess the two schools because my kids have gone from primary to secondary recently and it was the primary school where i was up government. The challenge at the primary school was actually. The head was very interested in educating children. Around food as as a restaurant with my kids at the school. I would go in and help do some things but the problem was they outsource the supply of food as a result of that. They pretty much got rid of the kitchen. This was historically she and then they were stuck in this sort of like. Yeah how do we really wanted to employ a chef. This is some of the questions we're gonna come onto with some of this stuff comes up in the you so they wanted to bring it back in house. They wanted to have a chef. I kept saying to them. Know if you had a a head chef in the school. They wouldn't need all of the time that there to do the actual cooking so they could then get involved in the curriculum and teaching but as it was yes. The food was being in from an external provider. I know that provider in i. It was probably pretty decent Probably more concerned at the secondary school because of the freedom of choice of the kids and the other them decide what they and i would naturally presume that there might be some. I don't know how how good any suppose the trouble is amazed that there's a lack of appreciation and understanding of food in general about what constitutes good food even even as the restaurants her i know that probably a significant proportion of the customers coming into my restaurants. Don't actually care where. I'm sourcing the food and we'll that was incredibly important to me. A lot of them are motivated by. Does it taste nice. does it fill me up. And and actually the end of the work. We do into securing ethical seasonal. All that kind of stuff for the vast majority of people i a worryingly. I think they really think about why. They're eating strawberries in february. Why spiral october. I think it's important they don't but then you get into the policy side of it and you just needs to be nutritious. You'll get to. I can probably this question for an hour. They clearly and i'm gonna do it off the back of reading about what you do. If the last couple of days. I will definitely gang up in in touch with my school. I would imagine in a normal year. It probably would have come up already. But because of covid. We haven't the school hasn't been open to external visitors. None of the nolan. That take place if taking place and certainly if i had been invited in as a as somebody in the industry i absolutely would have been poking around in the kitchen and asking about food as i did that. Promise go but. I haven't had that opportunity secondary school and my presumption with even if there is good food available. The my kids probably. Ideally wouldn't choose that as a result we make pat lunch because then wearing control and all the agree on some nutritional elements of that but released at least the calorific element wearing control. If not nutrition. I i think it's fascinating and motivated us up work with a few local schools. I think off the back of this. I'll be even more motivated. And i guess we'll come into this. But you guys working. Out of london regionalizing. What happens out of the country and trail-blazing educating i suppose it's part of it which means i should probably ask you another question. Which is let's get into this sort of. We understand the challenge. We understand the problem. I think it's fascinating hauled but actually it looks like there's some quick wins in there. How did chefs in school. Come about syllables. The primary things that you guys do as a charity so about well in fact probably about six seven years ago there was a there was a school in hackney henry semi skits school cook last. He was trying to cut teachers salaries. And they were saying teaching slogan differently similar compensation. I think the with to teach feel his progress. And so henry three-cell on twitter obviously and ended up in the hands of Nicole cassani who was the head chef of not which is a a restaurant in mayfair. Restaurant in mesa and nicole was kind of going through a period in her life as she was thinking she'd been chapter a few years thinking is this. Why won't stay with the rest of my life is something that my at back of a folly and so she thought know why not school food. I can monday to friday. I'm going to get holiday sauce. I'm not going to be constantly working when everybody else's out and having fun animals august do something nice. Working with kids brilliant. I'll give it a try and it kinda ended up being a lot more complicated. I think she thought she went from producing outta caught meals for hundreds tables to having to have five hundred portions of ready for crying. Children via lebanon in the morning. And that was i. Think for harrington but customer skills understanding you can't just go into a school and Change everything thoughts in terms of the way Free to serve and expect the kids to say. Okay everything's changed great. Let's get with that so it was kind of it. Was this big johnny to getting the kids to enjoy eating different very feeds to getting them to introducing fresh fruit so kind of taking fish and chips on a friday is example. Pretty much every school in the country Thanks into a school. That hasn't doug issue chips on a friday. How do you get this shit serving frozen products that you buy from breaks and get considered you chuck in the fried steak counter sued bringing fresh fish and getting the kids to eat and enjoy as well and a big part of the model that was created out so that was saying it should be exactly as you said. If you've got ready skilled head chef the not going to need spend hundred percent of the time in the kitchen and they should be getting out into the classroom teaching kids about so nicole. Credit went into the costumes and being. Maltese has a slightly different view. On education would be delivered so she was saying things like teaching the kids how to put chicken and teaching them to cook over five in the playground. Thanking marines being this kind of formidable and non frightened say okay got some sleep on went secrecy up. Sounds quite good modal. Any attention until louise's is being cut inundated with schools going on ago. How do i get some this chef. Sounds great and co's friends will ringing her kind of four o'clock in the afternoon saying what would you mean you're going home. Which menu finished with dying. What you need to offer. Which can christmas and so we ended up with three hundred ships saying can we get golden three hundred schools. Saying how do we get a piece of this chechen. Schools was kind of wound. Initially out so that it's we. We've we've grown since then so our headline when we first started with. We're gonna take a restaurant chefs. Put him into a hundred schools and in doing so you can do things differently and better. Odd enable others to follow lease on. I think we've developed quite a lot since that we. We walk now with currently with thirty two schools across london and we thought she just reached agreement with another forty schools so as of next year it will be seventy a hundred. Talk it over five years. We don't just kind of Fancy restaurant chefs south fancy restaurants in put him into schools. We train up existing scoop chefs and cooks to be able to deliver this different model. Because that's that's pretty key right. You have a really hard working cooks out there. He won't to best serve won't do more to the skills of the training or the value being attached to this gives Call do and i guess we're just craving. It is possible to do things differently. So we are. We doing differently. Kids getting engaged with it. It's not costing schools more to do it today. And that teaches that we're working with the just incredibly positive about the impact. It's having in the schools. I guess the truscott quantify nuts in a way that makes a compelling argument to serve the rest of the industry into government. Say actually we need to have a conversation about how we do. School figured amazing a loving Levels of too many questions. So let's let's just take cash as an example one of the opportunities or challenges however you decide decides perceive it and i and i guess there must be some schools where it's actually easy because there's enough money kicking around whether that's the free school meals will actually the cantonese us. But i imagine there's other where it's really hard. Where maybe they've already got team in place and they're already struggling to keep it solvent. How do you. How do you solve that. Presumably you need to go to espec- deficiencies you can drive or you need more people to use the canyon with your experience. How how's the money side of it being resolved. We'll do you end up subsidising them. No so the. I mean this is. This is the great the great thomas question of House you may kiss of the east. And i think cost efficiencies is been how it's been driven philadelphia's thaddeus into before posting competitive tendering being this kind of thing which drives cost reduction clustered construction. And actually you get and there's an element which you have to look at cost and you have to say. I'll be being efficient as possible but if you keep cutting costs and you cutting corners ingredients and you keep cutting skill of staff inevitably. You're you're gonna get reduction quality unless people are gonna buy you have to our market space around investing in the people in the kitchen so investing in training room investment developing in pain having be properly qualified for what they're doing amend reducing the costs to free through that the case. If you have a decent skilled chef in the kitchen you walk on using packet switching expensive easing cremate foods. You'll making sure the ease old of figure trough Chucking lights a feed in the been. So you juicy mukasa sufficient to offset the cost of labor and one hundred percent as striving more bums on seats. You do that in a couple of ways. Either you you getting to kind of the peak of way you kind of selling extra meals to two parents who can pay for it. And that's why i was saying schools. Well why don't you look at. What's your confident in making thing that we do. Everybody has a school meal because it has benefits outside of outside of just nutrition. So that's one way will take you tonight. Kit more cost effective odin. But the numbers. The numbers can add up. And i i wouldn't sit here and say that it's it's something that's cheaper than outsourcing. Never say about comedy and i guess it's kind of a i think for some schools kind of a wider question cost-benefit certain saying actually in this case one particular school. They're saying it's gonna cost me more to do this. But now that it's going to have knock-on benefits for how white kids interacts it's gonna benefits for that hadrian. The costume is gonna have benefits for the attainment so actually wacaol spanish. It's worth investing that money into. I'm kind of wary being drawn into the conversation about in about food in schools Long been about cost the as much as it's important immediately took bus wary about being kind of the field and actually not looking at the kind of the white benefits. How important school fetus. I agree with that about the challenge for the school. Is it got a certain amount. It's gonna limited supply of money. I suppose as an that is going to divert it from something else is. It's hard for schools to generate more cash. I suppose absolutely bums on seats in the canteen. Bit of a no brainer. But if it's going to say. I'm going to subsidize food. Mole which one hundred percent agree with all the benefits of presumably the government gonna give them more money Demonstrate or some. You know basically go to cut down on the photocopy budget. Well so i think government giving some more money repeat particularly nice Government funding meals six universal. Preschool meals have gone up. Something like two percent They see the fast of increase since their introduction and it was full p which. I'm going to say until i faced with inflation so it'd be nice to threat aching muscles but been such as schools right. Money is constantly being taken out by not being christine in the first place. If you see what. I mean by things. Don't keep pace with inflation. So am i think that there is an argument around better funding for schools. I think a knock-on benefits making sure that every child Households has access to a free. Scalia would mean also pour money going into school feed system which would mean better quality ammo schools. Being able to do this. And i think some schools do subsidized catering ready. Some choose. not some have enough. I think so much of it depends on different size of schools. Tiny primary schools. Find it really hard any any school with less than four hundred people just gonna find it really halls to catholic west sweet spot. Sorry to interrupt but exactly that they have you from your experience if you go and right yes a number so you have so less than four hundred is offered. It's tricky. i'm not gonna say it's impossible. I think you have to get creative so this to schools that we work within hackney federation or anything like that completely separate for me. Schools for teachers knew each other and they were both really keen to do the chefs in schools. Model me like great. It's going to cost considerably more want. We have to think about this and do this differently. So what we did is. We found the one amazing chef a chap who who is really keen to get working in schools thought. Why not do tune one for sure. So we have not one chef. Your walks across spices day schools and in doing the schools have been able to afford it without increasing the amount that subsidizing in fact i think will be signed to drive. That costs down now. So you just have to be creative in how you do it. If if cost is the sole that relocate them. it's it's hard to make arguments about improving quality. But yeah i think he can wash is basically just talking on a on a very personal level with women mike. It's primary school. I was actually quite surprised. Even it probably is around four hundred kids and it was tight but it did look like with the amount money they were getting in For free school meals alone that it was just about doable. Actually the challenge more was how they were gonna fall to our kitchen to They maintain the ongoing costs and they weren't in of sei's restaurants. Are you go out and you you find the kitchen period of time. But they they doesn't have the same flexibility to To go to the private sector of you if you had to help with that sort of stuff so we don't we don't direct and actually that's kind of that that tends to be how schools end up in relationships with outsourced providers provide his come in and fund a complete renovation kitchen and dining room or whatever it is in an it's basically offered as an efforts interest reliance than just appreciates contracts so that that's generally how schools pay for kind of improvements to dining facilities. It was also a really wonderful initiatives. I'd like to see repeated government. The money raised by the sugar by the sugar tax. But a soft drink every one hundred million pounds about towards precincts could healthy people capsules. Sean allowed schools kind of didn't decent capital projects that were going to improve Tell unexcused tap into that to get pregnant so my other. My other question was going to be around this demand so clearly that the simplest model would simply be to get enough people to be buying the food and it was quite interesting. Interestingly enough you mentioned efficient and chips my daughter transferred this morning as part my shots you asking a few questions. One of the things she said is always fish and chips today. In cantonese she was running around a bit late. Hadn't made a pat lunch. I said why don't you just buy your lunch school. And she said because her friends Don't sit with her in the campaign. Because i've got hot lunches cats and therefore she wanted to make a pat lunch rather than buy even though she would love fish and chips so that she can sit with their mate. I liked there was something that i read in in some of your information that set this idea around the kids actually being customers and this little desire to delight and actually to welcome nice Last great and actually you put some of the restaurant design elements because school canteens all too often. Pretty manx looking places. I'm sure that's on fat. So and actually if you focus on one. I suppose he's letting the kids the on necessarily eating. The school lunches eat their punches in the same place because social element out. I guess it's also held. The canteen looks and feels it. What's your experience of that sort of thing. You've you've had help as well as just making the space desirable as well as the food. Yeah definitely i'd i think. Primary schools and secondary schools are so different unnecessary In primary schools. You have to kind of make. A compelling i'll keep parents about why they should save themselves time and effort mchugh punch and syndicates Hoffman and that's my see about getting parents confidence in secondary schools. You have to win the super minds if teenagers which is like this quite challenging particularly the make missing going into secondary school when talking about healthy foods and just walk. She's the kind of people will say not so many. Thank you which is his. We'd negative connotation that we have around so we talk that's Room secondary schools enroll to izzy ex. Exactly as you say is kind of. What can you do about the environment and if you can't change the environment too much. What committee within the environment to make it more incisive and how you engage with kids so doing things like doing kind of pop pops so getting a couple of keys out in playgrounds in having kind of a pop barbecue in a school in house so that we will check in with. We arranged the street mall kit so they had a week where they had different street creek providers coming in which was incredible in getting the kids out there and excited and talking about things and once once that done that once they were excited to about a lot more interested in kind of what i should put a new chef In let's go. Let's go and see that maybe the same as this amazing street creek that we have. So i think i think you have to create you have to create demand soon secondary school. What we recommend they do now is when when they if they've got a new chef salty more fish in a training program in the ready salute should new feed offer credit on the counter. Pretty outside could it somewhere else in creates it. Is this kind of thing. That has a buzz around like all this new thing. This only two hundred portions of it has to be fast in a queue otherwise gets tasted and then once. They're excited about six months. That climbing each other creating many riots that teaches love then you saw introducing not into main counter and you know if if schools can invest in dining rooms and areas to make them more enticing those brilliant. It's always. It's not always achievable. But i think you can do a lot without doing that. That we are. We are in the business. Larry kind of going around encouraging schools to get graffiti. Also send which effective. It looks very cool and the kids. Get an quite excited by tip. Obviously that's not that enticing to secondary school head teaches. I think you just. I think you have to take kind of experience that you have in compassion environment My background is in contracting catering. But i saw to my crib. Point was wacky and business and industry type pudding. Cafes and restaurants into see company's headquarters in trying to create a buzz around they say and is back. It's been restaurant so it's kind of taking that commercial experience. The convince buying customers to call that cash and taking in schools and saying actually have to even imagine you have to recognize that these kids are your customers in that you have to address concerns that you have to make look enticing enough to get them talking about him buzzing about the in order to get them to then eats it. I think i love the dark of yeah of entangling teenager. Street foods called isn't it and we are lucky. You know with bake off shows and all this kind of stuff. It's interesting food. You're absolutely right. Yukon cooler healthy. I try with my case. Talk about even the word. Nutritious turns them off on the words of. I got and whole at least go. Let's just get back to real. Food is not made in a factory. That's what they actually ingredients in that. I love the idea of taking the moment. I think the problem with covid is in. They've they've now over-regulated this canes basis so much that the kids just just a horrible environment Mouse and sympathize. Because that's what they do but actually the opportunity would be to take the food out to the kids in that. Take out to the playground. Some little the pop ups it can still be made in. The kitchen potentially accountable all of the idea. I make it. Make it cold and make it relevant. Have you got some examples. I suppose of where you've gone into a school to help them. Ns speaking this sort of huge change. Where going in you know. Maybe the food was bad. The engagement was bad cates. What used the campaign but you come out the other side of it with within a completely different scenario and sort so. Can you give any examples of stuff happening. And what happened in that time period. How was the time period. Yes too so i think. Got get street. I think that's really great. It was quite often garments When we went in it was already run in house but the team had been giving kinda much directional much. Training at the food was kind of like not nineties. Left smiley faces in these To the canadians the paninis. That you can cook sick kit. Which screen my mind thing anyway. So the he was no not. Brian and we went for the kind of thing if creating the boston gets excited about it. And we did the st kitts and then started introducing into the main counters and it's really tricky in secondary schools. If you got faults he false We had the experience somewhere else who went to fawzi falls on somebody who sipping on the playground going so healthy now and so the kids just kind of rights to head enhance going. This is slightly impact in in this in this other school. We were we able to get kids. Importing get kids excited about it and the school. At the end of the first year were able to balance the books at the same number as they had done previously whilst having made this kind of quite dramatic transformation in some healthy reserve team increasing size yet a new chef yet a new jersey chef and they trained out the rest of the as well within some kind of becoming these ambassadors. Going getting really excited about fresh food. So it's definitely possible to do. I would be lying. If i said it was easing. We're now seeing. Cut more secretary schools getting excited in getting interested in this another school that we're working with talks rich where they've at the same time is working with us have a relationship with a project who grow which is built a working farm on the site. So he's kitchen. I need getting excited about. Fifty eating in the dining room gains go out experience kind of livestock and growing season. I think you have to be balled. I think that would be my cut big takeaways that doing doing doing things the same way. Making tweaks is enough. You d you d be bowls and you have to be willing to do things a little bit fooled. I think that the example there. It sounds amazing so far on so i would love that. This needs to be sort of led by particularly interested and motivated headteacher interest. Is that where the demand generally comes from. Nothing happens in a school without head teacher wilting. And so we in in in my experience if the had teaches on board it doesn't matter if the entire risk including the company bodies sites tomato change. You just weren't hopping and that in and of itself kind of presents an interesting challenge because we get so we have a database of hundreds of schools are really interested in working with us which is great. But we don't want to change periods in three hundred four hundred schools. We won't change period in get Thousand schools excited about it. So i think that's where you konica stupid game of three g. Three chests of how do you start changing people's perception around school food. How head teaches to proceed scooters being important to recognize that has benefits beyond. 'cause i think there's an awful teachers who would be more interested if they saw school something more than it was. Analysts is a solvable problem. I think there's plenty of teachers. Out there God that's awful nevermind. It's so many other priorities to deal with. It's too much i've tried to have fifteen different catering contractors over fifteen years. It can't be done so we just accept to actually us another organizations in good providers able to get out there and say is possible to do a. He's white marcus his funding from government. Thanks very much to make sure it happens. That's three d chess. That's how that's how we're going to get beyond the kind of feel hundred schools and the slightly depressed. I love your optimism and even when you say things the gemini horrific he's still segment smiley. Which is what you do this. But i share that too often. I worry about the significant. As i alluded to before it was a significant proportion of people who just interested in food tricia where it comes from let alone yet then trying to convince the head of the night just must become an ever diminishing number of people that are interested. It's a real challenge but Thing you can do is just. It's just lead by example demonstrate. Tell stories case studies show. What's happened in schools. I'm i guess the of heads would be and you spoke about this. Then i guess when you get it wrong has would be terrified of this. Sort of this. This fine knife-edge. I guess their own between as much as anything you need to the kids. It being sovan in some way and unscrewing the up and down the pan you've now presumably a wealth of experience and is is that one of the key things that people would come to you. Say look older motivation. We've got the desire we start. Have the experience. We don't want to screw it up. Presumably you can sort of hold schools hands through this and we can't guarantee you that will nail it but we can at least demonstrate to you. You know the experience. We've had exactly that yeah. I think i think keith is making sure is something that is sustainable too. Often you kind of free sample if you if you outsource and you get someone new comes in. He's not easy. Also brady brilliant future for few weeks and then things back in the end of the three year contracts audio going out someone else. Same problems that you came into it with s- akif fox is like how do you change it. And how do you make sustainable. So yeah. we had teachers that come to us. We we don't go out an Case of people coming to us all people like up just endlessly frustrating without crop however long how do we make change. I want to do it. Healthy so ally. Mr set to be sustainable. So that's making sure that they've called as denies food that nice bit. They've got street. Safety management system in place safe got away for cooling thanks They've got a way of ordering that. They know that they're getting decent prices from suppliers and making sure that the chef whether it's this shefi's wetness thirty ussery trains or a new Him making sure that that person is supported because they are effectively going to be. You are the expert in school now. Everything food so how do we keep them supported huckabee. Keep them excited. How do we keep innovation going into Of what we're doing is we're stopping the chefs alliance which is kind of this alliance offered different chefs that we've placed that we've met. He worked for schools and saying. How do we support you. Do you know we create creek. Hugs arranging. Visits out to go and see new innovative trends taking them out for meals taking into tool arranging arranging different events. They also have a network to tap into. Because i think if you don't if you don't get sustainable what's the point in doing it. A yeah an acoustic to often changes changes in preference own sustainable. So we want to make sure that not only are we making the kind of immediate change. Say making sure that loss otherwise. Yeah about mazing okay. Good so i understand the problem. I understand some of the ways that you can help solve it to to get into some of the specifics i suppose of. How many people can you help in a d. You have a lot more schools getting in touch a lot more demand for your help than resources that you can necessarily help or not. I mean the simple answer is yes. I think you have constricted by the amount of resources that you have and i. I would talk until that by saying that over Scout to go to another hundred schools next year would be nice. I don't think we do it because i want to. Make sure we stay close enough to make sure done to the same standards so what we're trying to work out. Is we set these one or maybe two hundred five years schools out as as kind of beacons of best practice sharing. what's possible. How do we then take your calls thoughts and make it successful to to thousands of other schools so working on a really big project moment incredibly lucky to work with some amazing funders one of the guys in st thomas. Charity at their work is predominantly place based in southern and they are funding us to develop a highlight which is gonna extract this really intensive training program that we give to school kitchen teams for how to make it and how to make these improvements and turn nine to a professional qualification that we can run out to thousands of schools and that for me has cut a big benefits and also benefits the industry. Because it's not just about saying he's a training program plenty of people either de training on lip service during cross training with saying. Actually it's much more about more than cross training Understanding kids nutrition too so understanding how to get kids excited about trying to things. Some descending emotional intelligence if house monitor team which is tricky anywhere but particularly and tricky in schools. You with now suits so that that's a program that developing and decide benefit for. I think he's also helping to professionalize school food. I think this is thing that we have the school cookies. Tina in the cooler and comes in for three or four hours a day and she's not all professional. She's just the cook she comes in through the back door and see the back door and never should anybody kind of baltimore about the serving counter. And actually what we're saying. Tnr is like a really impulsive person school. He's doing really really who job serving food. That's going to change everything habits for life. It's going to change how they also need going to eat three important so that should be a professional qualifications. It's not about leaving tina. it's about saying. Tina getting tina. The training in the skills and the professional recognition that everybody else in the school gets five days training a year and gets all these kind of added benefits and get professionally accredited training. Why why is the widest group. Cooks dos so that start thinking project and there were paying off to the pilot that we could get engagement with the school meals industry site. This is something that we think. We're really benefit you as well. Because the movie professionalize school feed in the movie emphasized her pulled since as the more likely it is the more people who put money into it with us government funding or parents buying it or whatever is the more kind of the more attention that we bring to. The importance ended standard school than the best shirt will be for everybody. Such an amazing opportunity. And we'll have such an impact others in this sector. That are on this same journey with the existing feels like a monumental opportunity but also monumental challenging task and i would imagine frustratingly time consuming because i love the idea in the. You've got thirty seven year at full tea. And and it makes absolute sense that you take that learning and you stay late and you turn into a movement and then other people can follow. I suppose it sort of open source. Learning but i guess takes time Are there others helping yet. Definitely so we i always. I've always had quite collaborative approach doing things. I don't think the one organization gets a deer everything and get Deal and end of everything so we've always been quite collaborative. could we i think impacts of coronavirus. Everybody's watching much more crises than they might have done before. So we've really good relationships with other charities. Work within the sexist so we work critically see people like white back. Twenty thirty who a charity that was established by jamie own efficiencies new vehicle for trying to reduce levels of childhood obesity. What school feet. Maters here fantastic. Charity who've been chipping away brooklyn for over a decade themselves and and fay foundation who have common interests in the child. Poverty angle Looted from people out there. We're definitely not trying to do by ourselves. And you know as. I said before serving gauging more and more with scooby industry because People out there. Making the predominantly in most of the schools in the countryside authority or catching contracts is doing the kind of the boat. So we're trying to this many of them as postal learn from them about kind of what. We're looking at ways in which our programs can complement or enhance. What they're doing. So i i definitely think about being collaborative be swimming. Intrigue to the free time be overwhelmed. Sometimes you're right about using existing schools interest. I would imagine on one side. They must be a little bit nervous. Because i suppose if you try to do things in house but but the flipside is in some of those companies a huge. Don't have that big budgets. I'm actually if they do you know at the end of the day will lifted on a rising tide. Nice with everybody's gonna say white vacation which is around education and poverty and obesity and nutrition and all that got up dina they should have the resources to send Particularly schools i suppose the big enough to necessarily have a stay in sheffield of the time they they should be perfectly placed to have people that can between schools and help out with the curriculum in the sort of nutritional ideas and beat well resourced. You get much sort of positive engagement. I suppose it all matt lines with them. Or they just sorta terrified. I mean i wouldn't be Egotistical stigma terrified of humble this load us but the point in ecstatically could be a competitor in some kind of small elementary school. Here or there. But you know we really sakib talking about one hundred two hundred schools when this thousands schools outta and i've always said and i think you know we feel. This is not is not one right motive doing it. I don't think schools running that catering in house is the only way to make school food. Great i think that investing in people who makes a figured and integrating the fruit that making with lessons in the classroom is the way to school freak right. That's that's key right and that doesn't have to be done by us. That doesn't have to be done by the catering so the sector of the compasses. It can be done by anybody to win now. We are engaging with with catering providers more tickling development of the pilot for the professional qualification producer. We've just developed a relationship with the local authority who have traded services catering for about seventy schools. So we're going to work with them. I can't say he is your. I don't think voice get in trouble. I'm trying not to get in trouble We'll we'll be announcing that in the new year and that's that's really exciting accessible. Chintzy helps then integrate our learnings about how you defeat in how you get kids engaged through the winning already really well established capturing provider so now i mean it's it's exciting to me definitely definitely. We getting really positive noises. The people that were speaking to. And i think people recognized the the financial benefit the company said yes on trusted in reducing or be seen during right thing they say. Commercial companies foremost priority is to make money at the end of the day darryl financial benefits to school feeding getting people buying it so it. It's it's not makes perfect sense than i do think there. Is this sort of sense of collaboration. Come out the back of kobe much better than it did before. Are you still purely london. Century of new four. co adding also london. So i'm proud to announce we now have one school outside of london since severing making stir heights. We all really keen to get outside of london. I don't think so what we're doing. Is london centric. I think probably the menus that the schools that we work with producing Centric model itself is so. Don't think it's going to be difficult for us to kind of move. Thanks lending somewhere else. I think we might have to think long and hard about different kinds of menus for different areas. How we help people were out with. I saw is echoed outside london. It was on the books this year. We had some cups and changes in plans for reasons Sounds it wasn't able for us to focus kind of how to be not the planners twin sent you on yourself. Naomi things have been. I went runabouts it but we did things for about six months tonight year next year next year the plan wearing talks with a a an academy. Trust in the northeast. I would really really love for us to go northeast. Go southwest findings. Kind of pockets. How we fight. areas with the highest Economic deprivation precisely because. Move the things. I said before about at poverty about malnutrition about obesity being such areas. So yeah we're excited to explore for guessing. The means it's exciting. Well i'll be a local ambassador and we do actually have one of the most deprived areas in the uk. all bouma much of it is faulty flash. But don't even embarrassing. It's just the reality but as as pockets of deprivation locally were real challenge schools. Where i'm very welcomed is part of the opportunity so that that is around funding so a draw to a close like a chat tool day. But some how're you. how are you funded especially. It's never enough cash but if you go a stable supply of investment and other key players helping in fact one of the motivations to get in touch with have been aware of your work for a long time and if they meaning to get in touch but when i sold that will beckett Lovely hawks more than ten thousand pounds a couple of weeks ago. Because somebody mazen stuff that you've been doing during covert that motivated me to get in touch. So yeah wh- where and how are you funded. You need more with that Yeah i if. I can just read incorrectly. Just touch on the point about hawks and just give you a one minute to my love to the restaurant industry. My love of the restaurant industry one incredible industry the first people that step forward when we working out. How do we get emergency response. Was the restaurant industry. Which will be industry facing assists most enormous kind of existential crisis Life-science never the first people going. Okay can we. Can we give money can give you leftover food. It's just an amazing industry in will in his a hoax will gave us so much. Simple hacker just go on and on disembodiment to show my appreciation. We can add to that. I mean it's been such a humbling to witness it and so proud of the sector to step up and and you're right you're absolutely on its knees and continues to be so but it demonstrates that al cole is hospitality. It's money is a reflex to look off the people and of years whether it's been in the people of needed to stay in when they're in remote places hotels the service i just think it's a beautiful sector when it comes out of this with its head. Held high will be that a lot of people aren't gonna come through it. Which is which is distressing. So yes i share your Your gushing enthusiasm. I suppose for how it's handled itself. I many of my pay is come out the other side of this Why so what was. The question was around for access to cash so we saw in a really good position going into but facing obviously the same onset since he separate else so having really strong relationships with on disease is is really important because the charities kind of you can have no income for the year. But the next year. I i have no idea of necessity around that. So we have. We have different relationships. We we were setting feet feet ep. Cool who he's five us alignment also like hoops. More of wonderful bible fi trends agency the freed people we started working with a may provide us support but will say kind of platforms to talk to people about what we're doing which is to get funding from trust superstation. So we have an delivery companies in london so people like as fabrication fishmongers livery garfield weston foundation funded us. The lenin trust which is fantastic. Trust is giving us along kind of a long-term among supports so low to people haven't mentioned too. I definitely should be day. I try to step you buddy. But we get funding from mexico places. We use to generate income so we are school food two weeks before the type countryman international lockdown. But it's a wonderful cookery school in in in hackney which is not only helping to quite awful cheese for local communities scam votes in growing cooking research vice for us to be able to share the wonderful chefs that we've got and chevy's experiences with other people have been generate some income through out until i work with schools and then in the long term. You know with this qualification. That will be a stream of income for us. I i think sustainability for anybody right now is having a mix of different ways in which she in you having come as a charity a lot is donated and we have some fantastic individual Supports particularly around the trump oversee stuff. We're finding that people really really king specifically the campaigning work which is great especially quite tricky to raise money for that specific so having support integer. Giving us this is really helpful. Okay amazing is there anything Quick wins i guess. Clearly you'll biz. if you're adding another another forty people. next year it's brilliant so if if as either a school listening who's feeling particularly inspired or maybe a parent or somebody in their local community feeling inspired by what we've chatted to the other any quick way to their any things they can do the on just Of apparently ship with you. I suppose that is. I think questions i can ask the school i suppose or or just. Stop sending kids in with money to use the campaign of have you got any advice you would give people one hundred percent if you're a parent govern havoc and going if you can see the head teacher let you go in an going your Kids about food. Understand what is going on if it's great brilliant support school and encourage the parents if your head teach Unusual can cost dining room and kind of shuddering slightly but thinking on that lights a is something is announcing these. Do tackle each worthwhile even if it might be tricky for a couple of months. South wanted run. And yeah if if you're if you're a child listening to this site that much if you there are also many but if you are even getting markets listen to struggled but you never nine then again. You get excited about food. If you're not excited about reading school than speak about tell you teach. John change perfect in. It's nice to have to matches the pressure. Brilliant so i could. I could chat to you for another two hours one day. I'm gonna come up to the school of food and take a look at a movie in person and grab a coffee. I hope naming but let's just thanks so much for doing what you do it clearly. It has the potential to help solve so many challenges and Yeah on both on both sort of in or of the momentum of the challenge ahead but also just super grateful excited and just think it's such an awesome set to be involved in and i wish you the very best for the future but thank you so much for taking the time to chat and Yeah good good luck. Solving all of the i'm going to call them. Opportunities and challenges jake them much suppression shop rights. I hope you are feeling inspired about all things food education and i hope you learned something interesting during that conversation. Personally it's an area. I hope to continue to focus. Time on and i will be reaching out to some of my local schools to learn more and i'll try and keep you posted on what i find out now. I had a little audio problem towards the end of that chat with some of the resources that she was referring to could not be heard. So i cut them out but fundamentally take a look at the chefs in schools website and the school food plan online and take a look at what works well at the link on that page with some great information and downloadable content that will ramp up knowledge at all. You can use it directly in your school or with your kids and i will put links to all of this as well as the social media channels in the show notes on the humans of hospitality dot code or uk websites and remember. If you won't useful links light that just to land in your inbox each week to save you hunting for them. You can't just subscribe to the newsletter via the website. There's a little capture form right at the bottom of the homepage but said yeah everything will be there. The show notes for this episode okay. That's it. I've got a couple more episodes to record pre-christmas and then we'll be taking a little break for a few weeks over the festive period. And we'll be back around the second week of january for years. Three of podcast learning. Thank you so much for joining me on. The twenty twenty adventure is being someone. We'll challenging the we were expecting the task of the year but talking to peers across the country has certainly helped me my sanity. I hope it's helped you as well but for now have a great week and i'll be back next monday cheese.
Episode 9: Thomasina Miers
"Does your little one loves paw patrol about dinosaurs well, perfect because the new season a patrol is here and guess what it's a dino. Rescue. I can't wait for my kid to watch each episode ten times nights on the plus side all your holiday and birthday gift shopping is pretty much done because of course, there are a whole new batch of Dino rescue toys to you and for a limited time at target get fifteen percent off the new patrol dino rescue toys with Code Pau fifteen patrol dino rescue, check it out. It's going to be possum. Hello I'm GonNa Specter, and welcome to spending lights the podcast where I, speak too busy working women who also happen to be mothers about how they make it work. I'm sing released seven albums in between having my five sons aged sixty months to sixteen years. So I spent a few place myself being a mother can be the most amazing thing can also be hard to find time for yourself and your own ambitions. I. Wanted to be a bit Nosey and see our other people balanced everything. Welcome spinning plates. Hey, how are you I? Your host of spinning plates poured caused I am getting increasingly loopy with my introductions book cost you not find. Anyway, hyper things about the I. Am Sheltering from a thunderstorm actually we've had A bit of a heat wave, and now the rain is common. That's good. and talking of heat waves when I interviewed this week's guest Lovely Thomason Myers who is The winner of Master, chef two thousand and five. I believe it was but also the founder of Oaxaca among many other things that she gets up to her cookbooks her associated with chefs in schools helping children learn how to cook tasty. Affordable food When I spoke to Tommy, it was another very hot day. So you'll hear us, talking about having hot thought is actually We're not talking about cooking foyers. We're talking about literally our own thighs being warm It was really lovely to talk to me I went round to her house to chat to her and She was very very open and warm and very candid actually about period in her life she calls a wilderness years where she feels like she wasn't really sure what she should be doing what should should be up to. which I think when you hear how driven she is and how many ideas she has and how much momentum there isn't alive I. Think. Kind of surprise you. But Hey, we can all feel a little bit restless and sometimes you have that kind of energy. You're actually very prone to feeling really quite lost when you don't really know where to direct it Am I can definitely relate to that feeling of just thinking I do go this energy and I don't really know what it is. I'm supposed to be getting on with my life She's awesome. Employs some one where some of the women I spoke to They have the careers, they have children, and then off having a baby, they source of rethink rose with Tommy I feel like she scooped up her bubbas she has three little girls and I think they are aged getting this right I think it is four and seven and nine Tommy will party correct me with that when we start talking but some. You know she it feels like she says a scoop them up along for the ride with her with her. With her work I feel like what she does for a living and how she approaches her work would have been pretty much the same. If they were children's Johnson a back on north but it happens she has got them and a very happy home life. She has t she's managed to overcome an unhealthy relationship with food as she talks about when she was younger, she's not the other side of. So you know someone who's very strong and also very open about Any mental health wobbles which I. Know, happened to many of us. So I think it's important to keep these conversations out in the open because actually it turns out that everybody's had those kind of things happen to that one time in their life or know someone that has all this week and he birds tweeting in the background I can hear the sounds of birds tweeting on can also the sound minecraft because when my kids got a play date and they are happily building something a virtual land, what a strange modern world we live in anyway. I have to tell me and how wisdom you don't need any more of me nuts during along Not I'm GonNa make copy I know I was finish off this bill with a cup of tea but it's actually genuinely always feel like doing I don't know I must associate you with t Can you make good thing I love tea and I love you say enjoy senior side thanks so much. Let me. Thank you very much for talking today. I should probably explains people listening in black and where we are we are in your bedroom. Muchly but we're socially distance just to reassure everybody is a good. Even if I stretch my arm I won't be able to reach you. For but we can't speak and it's a really hot day out there and we've shut the windows. If we start to under bit-part, that'd be. Why Um slightly reminds me of a I did the violet clack attack Clark Aches. We Love, podcast in we had we had an audience for sixty people in our cake shop in east London and it was daylight this. And I just remember the sensation of might fights slipping against. Hot. We're. Talking. How many jobs done actually were have been in stiflingly hot situation. You just kind of get on with it. Don't you? A video. Once what must be one of the hottest day were record and we just all of us the whole band keep needs to be kept mopped down over again and makeup sliding off and you look back. You think I was actually really unpleasant maybe in the case of it was quite. Definitely in the video is not nice just to hawks but my mom not. That point. Okay we're doing. Okay. So. When when when we go? Hey, you said you've been cooking in the kitchen. Can I ask you what you've been cooking today? I have got some gifts sprees pitching because I couldn't resist them in the market but they've been. They've been in the fridge for quite some time now. So I thought I better cook them. I can't decide I've got a couple of friends coming into the garden tonight. To have a drink and I thought okay, make some fool or ice. Cream. Inside rich because I, Love I. Love a nice fool. So I'd probably go for the full disk because I think there's something comforting and yeah and then and then getting really chilly recently, I've been doing lots of seasonal British and then I suddenly had a change of mood this week and I've got lots of Aubergine I'm being fatal sheet tomorrow. For my new website. So I've been going through all my books some by this lovely photographers and other working Tara Fisher. You basically built her career ops single handedly raised her case private school, really impressive women and. Serbian, I always looking three last night when my old Capex by her. thinking. I could use some of that photography and and then I found this amazing Schwann aubergine recipe. So I'M GONNA develop for Sounds good lots of Chilean kind of a lovely gunky Chinese e SIC. St Swarm of the stuff that gets that plan where. We've been eating spicy food much as well Y-. Something tells me that that will be ready. Yeah because. We should probably get the kind of Virus check out the way really been finding. Everything during lockdown because Ziemba is working all the way through. Yeah. So I mean the really lovely aspects of it was that. So three days a week I'll do a hacker and that's tiring. Man, the restaurants around the country. Around London and a lot of work in site, which is, which is really fun and lovely but spending so much time home has really released a kind of inner creative and it's been really lovely cooking a lot all the time and I. I've done more social media, they have ever really done because. I, find the juggle of running the restaurants having my column. The children is just a lot and so I've always found social media kind of fools down a bit. I've had a bit more time to that and it's been. It's been really fun. Though the trouble of the social media you go and. Then think Michael is so much more or so much better but try not to do that I. Think on. My forties should be grown up enough to make that is not the case and anyway it's fun. It is fun. If you just fake what you're doing I find that is really good maximum life and I've always found it my recipe waiting I try not to. Recipes I try not to gaze at what other being just focus on what I, what in my head and I feel creative about and that's not the best way forward anyway. So lots hooking I've become I've wanted the cliche sour dough makers. Mother enough rage at the moment we making cider. Yeah. She's like so satisfying it really is and that's been my favorite. That's my favorite lockdown thing too late chow around my neighbors give them a loaf of Saturday. And say, hi on that all steps that was good and also a local school is giving the teachers Saturday. So I think at the beginning I made it really obsessively. Lows every day or every other day. I've just calmed down but now I think real life is starting to creep back in Yeah Biz. Interesting is what you're saying about that desire to cook at home. I mean obviously cooking is your day job, but it's actually also just how to nourish your family to spend time together how to feel like at the end of the day. No matter what else you haven't done. You've managed to achieve making a meal and a really tasting because I know house. We've been cooking lows as while rich has been doing late amazing recipes away to channel that energy. Yeah. Yeah, and it's fun is there are Nice on me. I must girlfriends enjoy kicking march and some of them really love it and I think if you love it. Basic you'll greedy and you love eating than the end of it. You get delicious feed, which is what you want, and then the price of severe find really calming and that's something really lovely about listening to the radio how many times in the background or chatting someone you know having a drink if you want to and just pottering around in the kitchen yeah creating essentially. Yeah. So yeah, I think it's great and the generosity of as well. I mean when you say you take you mention neighbors engaged to the school and seeing the teachers that as a lot of ways to say to show appreciation and affection people and when you cook something tweet or hospitality. I am reading a book called Tokyo, which is about how we feed ourselves in the future is quite heavyweight. So I've been going through fairly slowly, but it is a brilliant book by Karen Steel and a lot of it is how societies change thousands of years but essentially. Food is what we survive. Without food we die and I think fat complete. We we've lost that connection that not only is it survival but over thousands of years, it's been a way that we communicate in eastern make fire when we found for before that was it was harder but once we found fire. It became a senator place of a cave or wherever you were to sit around together I like chat and break bread together. Further for me is the most fundamental way to Joyce dancing. Obviously there's sex is great. But food you eat with your friends sharing food. That's. Great Pleasure Delic-. I find it. Yeah. That Elijah and if you're in a couple with young children and lockdown making is probably easier than achieving some of the other things that are on that list and he suddenly got kids everywhere and tossed salad sometimes. Kids at home or you're trying to get worse than is struggle yes and you've got three little girls have done and so the two birthdays even lost two weeks was that two of your daughters? Yeah. Yeah. So we had a nine, a nine year old and a four year old party when I say party I tried to make as much party atmosphere possible. Yeah. But we did we did fund slough we kind of made pizzas and we We did we yeah we did kind of throwing the X.. And then frantic handwashing after that with. Six people were allowed in the garden. That was that was quite good actually. Yeah we've got. We've got my husband's lockdown. Mission was clearing. He felt free skips Detroit us from the garden. Wow I've looked down single handy. A large amount. Yeah. So that kept him quite busy. So gardens actually was perfect. Yeah Rays. And stuff. I think the focus on Haymond doing the big shot at this morning actually before I can't I was organizing the big part of stuff got charity shopping putting it all in different places I. I'm really looking forward to be able to move on now because I did so much clarion sorting and polishing I ended up dusting things haven't been dusted for decades. Which? Is really good for a couple of days after about a month. It kinda looks the same as it did before anyway. Yeah. I feel like ten years Dustin. Two weeks doesn't massively different on the show, but maybe it's just me. On the comment on my own I stay in my house. So we should probably talk about life before lockdown. Really. because. Obviously. Food is cooking is something that's been day job. What's? Around the time of master chef time when it really is something. When I was reading up about it seemed like master chef was a sort of simultaneous why you've actually this is the thing I really want to do yeah. That was definitely a catalyst or they actually even going back before that spent months in Ireland. By. which is a lovely gentle cooking school. In southern Ireland and I. Essentially I'd always Kurt from if six I used to find playing home I just couldn't. I was really batum I used to get really jealous of my sister. He'd spent hours really happily playing with dolls and stuff, and I just got end up causing trouble getting being in trouble. So I used to sit by my mother and stir pots own and learn how I I was really fascinated by how she can make quite humbling regents taste really delicious. She had this clever neck. So I was always really into it, and then all three altered like you know trying to earn money at school I used to pocket money by kicking for that further friends and really. Young? Well, yeah, which is anyways get some cash like my pants have biliteral cash. So it was kind of and I really loved it. I mean how are we doing that when you? Like thirteen fourteen I really am I really downs beyond narrow will I I just really loved as well as it was also I think we had quite. My childhood felt. Quite, tense and difficult and not that happy looking back and I think cooking for people was that way of getting praised that was really kind of quite crucial part of having a bit of attention and having praise and being made to feel special because I think we didn't feel that special in other parts. So there's Daphne and I think probably when you talked to chefs and cooks that's quite a big aspect of that I think that that lovely warm feeling you get when he put some lovely feed in someone else's Tommy. And that kind of loved you get back from it is is kind of is quite lovely. If You People pleaser. Guess. so but but it's equally. Some pools and a day school in London back and my father. Totally failed to make money. Had always had come on. You've got this brilliant brain. Money than he can do whatever you want and so I had this kind of pressure breath for me and the school and I guess my Tease your brain, and so I spent almost. Like Daphne buckled after the school buckle under all sorts of pressure and failed talks would. Really screwed up my degree and generally things started kind of falling apart and so my twenties when I felt like I should have been. Becoming a rich banker. acing it in or wanting, I really wanted to see fashion or that were all these things I was trying to do. And cooking. In those days cooking wasn't cool like is now and so you either like kind of Birch chef in the kitchen I mean they didn't even know any chefs to be honest and restaurants there weren't as many we never them anyway. All those kind of. Boarding school girl during a kind of. Thing a bit a season and a skiing lodge and dinner in catering and just didn't really identify with either stereotype and I didn't really see. Never really I never really even thought was possible. So spent like, I've I call it my light decade in the wasteland whereas really struggling with quite bad mental health and and just feeling a total failure just just kind of the wilderness is of thinking I I'll try this next and they'll try that next and then not nothing really ever sticking and then I was in a fashion show on a catwalk show with them. At kind of charity and I was there with close sticks whites he was one of the T-. Fat Ladies. I used to love that program and she was so referenced but also really bright in a she'd been the youngest woman to the Bar at age twenty one. And and yet had kind of given up law for for kicking and so I remember you know backstage being made up and her just saying my God if you love food. What what are you doing? Why are you wasting your time? You should be cooking and no one had really said that to me before we even that was twenty six I think she found out during Ireland he ran valley and got me bumped off the waiting list. And Lychee two weeks before the beginning of a term school they found out and said, you've got place if you wanted. And I went off with my. Green White Stripey Reef I mean ours used the love me they. Loft everywhere drove just laughing violence basically. Not. TV But. And I had this really magical three months just creating cooking learning and afterwards I went out of the out into. West. Cork may cheese for three months and was making Saudi breads and selling at markets tools. With. Another chef could close McKenna and just living this dream and thinking my. God. Finally, what took me so long this is what I want to be doing. So that was really magical and it was a copy as after the is did master chef because I still dating identified? I, think I think I'd failed for so long that I. Could Sunny be a chef. I found was struggled to believe in and. And I guess also I just. Can reconcile the idea of working with night nosing my friends. It was kind of it was just it was quite contrary to everything I've been brought up. And then and then realized it Mazda Chef. It was just it's just amazing I I mean. To do this I lived in Mexico. So I went down to Mexico fear and I came back and I was really down on. Having no money for quite a long time really quite desperate twenty nine years old still not really knowing what it's doing and you're going to defeat. And and I just saw this Ad. And so I just saw it as the builders outside that's weighing. Yeah I just saw this verse went and I just something called just I just think fate is so strong in life something in me just made me feel that investment didn't tell anyone about is too embarrassing but I remember making Michigan down to your decision and there were so many things that could stop me but in every turn fate my Lloyd push me forward to kind of come into this and I remember just bursting in this auditions lost one of that series, which is the first series and just talking at them a million miles an hour just being full of ideas a madness and This dish prepared them that ended up all over the. Station platform and I realized that I would Bill Joy Vinci's Friday I was trying in from cooking job in Norfolk and it was it was crazy but it was it kind of it was great and. Ended up being to chef it was just so terrifying and I'd never been filmed done anything like now tally before but I just was so passionate about feed and I think that when you sean three. And it was amazing because when I just couldn't believe it because like be screwing up for ten years essentially everything. I did seem to just fall apart and then suddenly I remember John Greg going. You know their base is this is really good at this. So long even now getting his my eyes so so that was amazing but then I definitely felt like I was on catch up because obviously twenty nine. Case taking young. World where you can cook. Yeah exactly. But that I know that feeling it went to A. An academic girls school not far from where you actually. that. Pressure to. Make something of the academia being offered, and then also to know what it is, you're supposed to be doing. A So many people I know that went through real wobbles in their twenties early to mid twenties thinking of so come out the other side of that system I. still don't really not. My thing is and listening to you talk there's obviously all these trails that lead to the bit where you. As you say almost like Ebay showed, it really is cooking. Not showing you enough clues now but but during those moments, especially, if the idea of making into what you do for a living is so far away from what you would be encouraged to do what you've been shown or examples you had around you. So it's I. Think It's actually reassuring that you don't have to know for really long time actually when. Time you know what I mean is. Nearly thirty and still be finding your thing. Yeah. Other think the whys Oracle's I used to love to hang out with people because they always seems to have these cells wisdom by quite understood them. Things like just enjoy the journey. That's pop part of it and he still have to remind yourself. You're my age. You still have to remind yourself that life is about the journey is not necessarily about where you getting the because why you get into any is that an it was a mean was it's time for so yeah, definitely the journey and whenever I to young people and I do sometimes schools I, always say that. The hardest thing is to know what is and you're still out sometimes people start writing seventy years old and that's fantastic and I think that's the most reassuring thing. The flip side of it is that we're constantly evolving and actually think women are better evolving than men because you need have plan to evolve. You can just kinda follow your nose and your gut instinct. Think we're quite good at that. I think listening to your gut instinct without necessarily having all laid out. So I think life is about constant involvement. It is definitely and I think it's funny I found myself saying that to people's just enjoy the Lakers and as someone in my I don I wanna be a musician that has record oona that well, you mustn't see the record I'll is like the holy grail that always look back on this bit while you're allowed to create what you want do what you want make mistakes and you'll look back and think actually that was a real housing period. But even now in my forties I don't think I've totally practice what preach all the time because I feel it. Hurry with the next thing the next thing the next thing, and let me say with the social media and if you look at stuff anything, other people are doing so much more and there's other things and certainly with lockdown when it started I, felt such pressure to be productive and creative and was should we this is when I should write some amazing piece of music or should write something or something she come out of this and? Relax and take notes. It's actually okay if we're just getting by this bachelor yeah because you are just going by the lockdown just was insane exhaustion of like tidying the house cleaning the floor mopping after three messy kids you. Just. Just keeping all. Yeah even that. Yeah I did definitely I've got a few girlfriends got kids Daphne sometimes find myself looking just thinking God clever ones. Bob. I think you. A look. So when you heard your first baby, did you always think you're going to be a mum while you would in your life? Is that something you is hateful artists don't remember this but my friends. Say that it was always found to be the one we had four kids and I just don't remember that but then I guess because finding the career took so long and then all say. That the kind of the mental health. Big thing. For me. So I was really down in my twenties. So she took me a long time to settle down with someone because I've just been not. So. So then I think that person. Babies on the back burner. And then and then I met my business partner we started doing well hacker and really busy doing that. So so then you know mark and I didn't meet 'til guess was definitely in my thirties and I was also living I, remember my friends saying domino's living in Mexico and I didn't really know why Mexico either one of those things where you know that big part of. Off My life. Yeah I love to travel mementos eighteen and something made me go cop Toubon Mexico City live there for you so. That was quite fun. Yeah. Mexico. City is a lot of fun. So so yeah, I think. I've lost my train completely well, was just asking you when you you always thought you'd be a mom and then how when that's I. Mean you already running Mahathir. So when when you mark your? Your husband young because it's after French to your business partner. Mark on your husband. So what happened was already established at that point was already even. Think thing we had just started it. I think we just also we were slotting it. And we we took you know I think we took quite on time to kind of make up our minds and then but but it is funny once. I mean, I just love babies. I just love children and I think. That my friends me that I always want love children and I think I think my first I was on such a mission because I think wasted so many years. I. Is calling for. Not, achieving that then once I'd started working and feed I, WanNa proper mission I was working. I was working so hard and it was almost a form of therapy to avoid thinking about anything else. Anyway. Loved excuse not to have to anything else. But work I think is quite a handy excuse to build just plain work on everything. That's really interesting. Things. Say I think that really resonates? Yeah. Always say work and it does become this place where you can put so much stuff. Yeah. Yeah. Exactly. An excuse not to do so many things that maybe ship eating like nurturing relationships or family or whatever. Say I worked three I do remember they. You know when you have your first child I remember. So I went to my mother's for month. which was really magical and then I remember getting home by myself. The first time with this baby and you know they call it talk back to you and that loneliness that sense of loneliness and that tyrod of am I going to do this. What am I going to I remember my sister the day. I. Wrote Back Home for being with my mother from what can you come and stay please and I think it's really Hokuto. Or not just that first time with your child. And so I did Daphne work through my first two maternity leaves quite hard rate. Book both my first human ten. Steve's, and then my third maternity leave managed to write a book before I gave birth. So any editing but then the third maternity leave as a bit of a gap between the tatty right. TATTY quite long time to derive, and then ought to just happen really quickly after that. So they were quite close together the I. And I think that was core anyway 'cause let's just exhausted from working so hard as well, and then I had a proper break and I think we were really because I cast so much about environment and I was really finding my Catholic Gaelic kind of Gang Shit. You have another baby shouldn't you know this kind of thing and then she just happened and then? That was quite a big chunk of time I, think the lovely thing is by that time, he realized how special is and how quickly that baby bit goes and I just remember this blissful time. Just you know holding and hugging and she's the most delightful kind of huggy baby and a property and bliss. But halfway through that. That I should not even say that united about say offer that maternity leave we got lobos in the restaurants always uncomfortably. Forced into work, but maybe it's not going to bring that up well as opposed anything that is impressive. I know it's not an easy thing to talk about because it's a horrible association but I think the way you handled was brilliant and had integrity and I think also you've had to overcome in which for a lot of businesses would have been something. They could never really come back from but we're hackers good solid reputation and it is a really a someone who goes there with my kids and my family a lot. It's a very consistently happy and good endurance in and all the people that work. There are lovely and all those little details that really make the difference between feeling like a valued customer and just being customer. So I think. What you experienced, but that must have been so stressful and just look back and think Kant believe we got through it but you did. It sounds so naff that corporate idea of having company valleys but we created these values when we started work together we were quite young we set up wacker but we were F- really evangelical idea of having a company that would be fun to come work in where people. Just, really enjoyed themselves and. We basically, non hierarchical and everyone could get by we give people trainings, they get other jobs. I think hospitality is such an amazing industry because you can take anyone off the street Issues self confidence issue anyone can thrive and blossom, and then going to do something else is the most. The an all embracing encompassing. Taking. Anyone in and I, love that people who offer life or nationalities. Bay Sexes we've got such a great amount of women running restaurants and managers, and I'm so proud of that aspect of hospitality, which is often seen as kind of underdog of a book of a career and yet which is creative and independent, and you get to really think on your. Feet about stuff, and then you get to create delicious food. and. The values that we created really helpful at norovirus we really relied on them to govern every. The law would like Donut Mitt any culpability don't say you're sorry and we were just like nave course we're going to say we're sorry. Yeah. Not Few poisoning came happened but we made people ill and say soy gone and funny enough. In lockdown has played out again because. I have been so proud about company three lockdown because we have been cooking with. Angela heart and feed ninety nineteen full ICU units and have been. So I sat help set up a charity cool chess and schools within the call Zion and Henry Dimbleby a copy is a trustee. And so we've also been feeding. Underprivileged kids in quite a few schools in south London and when I come into my sites and I, hang out with my managers, my chefs who are coming in on their own time he so delighted to be there to be helping someone else and to be just doing something that's productive and useful, but also having so much fun with their cheeky and fond and not all that kind of stuff that made me feel so proud and this just the camaraderie of our company as we as we've caped through this really difficult time for restaurants as. A really difficult time for restaurants but it's interesting because you've spoken a lot about the wilderness years and how it's kind of gives you this impetus to make good use of the time now and he thought that you actually. Arrived at things later than you should have done. But actually if you hadn't had that ten years, there's so much about how you've handled the work you start the company. that those values probably would have been really different because even hearing you talk about if people have got. Confidence, issues or they haven't gotten amazing academic results or whatever if they can come in from any background and make you something delicious to eat, you're going to say that tastes amazing. You're really clever for doing that and it can build people up. Now that's obviously been a big of your experience to and giving people that self esteem and wanting that to be infused in what we're hacking representative. When it comes to the day, it probably wouldn't have happened in that way if it hasn't been something that was so significant to you well, I definitely think that. Looking back when life gives you Knox and Very few people go through all of their lives without any knocks, but maybe some people get the Knox later on the maybe actually it's quite useful. It's getting Knox quite early on because you're right shape you and it definitely makes you think more probably in a different way and I think that's a good thing I think I I mean it's horrible when you're going through. The pets but I think. There's also something quite. Good about not being afraid to Viggo going wrong anymore because you've had happen that's one of the things that experience can give you an think a literally had every. Can. You feel that you've had every worst case scenario and you got through it and it was okay. Actually is not very nice race. Okay. Do get through it then I think, yeah, I kind of definitely think. Is Weird thing to even hope that with your kids that they have bits these these peaks and troughs be at the things that they need to go through and you're not going to be able to protect them from Bachelorette land up being hopefully something whether learn quite a lot of things that make them I mean the ED teachers I, teach him that mistakes. As how you learn few mistakes don't you you just? Hey, mistakes. Not, going to compete you take you down I know exactly and I. I don't know if this is normal but I spend time all. Is Enough I get closer to the kids about something or if in a bad mood or a bit distracted or something, and then I'll kind of go back later and savvy sorry about that. But I feel like now they think I'm always gonNA come back and say the story sometimes especially with my older ones that'd be like. Weighing feeds comeback in half an hour and say, actually it's fine. You can do that I'm sorry I snapped. Bill to end. Now. What's going to happen? 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NECTAR SLEEP DOT com. So when you were. Working. Did you always think you would go back to a hacker and run it sounds like your first baby you were like well, I wa I actually saw it as mentally I have breaks from the restaurant I stayed in talk to them and I still talk to my business all the time but what I was still always doing was writing. And doing recipes and and then just generally. I I find. I find myself getting involved in projects, and at the moment I'm going in my house through lockdown just coming out of it. I've gone through a period of wondering. If I'll ever work again you know am I am on the person she produces stuff or do I just really ever really ever bailed presenting again you got those kind of moments of doubt and then I look back over the kind of crazy things I come up with we did think of the idea which was essentially raised. We read eight pigs in Stepney city farm on allowable food waste. then. We had a big banquet. We slaughtered six the pigs and fed five thousand people on Intertribal Square I didn't style Stewart. and. It was basically to shine a light on the fact that offer mouth, the government, and then the whole of Europe banned Swill as an industry. Right. So instead of recycling feed waist, which is the most ecological things. Do we just chuck it out with their now we are composting some of it, but the best way to is to give it to livestock. and. Then obviously, the flip side of not giving food waste livestock is that we're cutting down the Amazon to feed livestock. So. So. The great thing about lockdown is that so many people don't think about these issues. Well, he comes for him because we you know we we do not have enough. We will not have enough food to feed everyone the way with going. Unless. We stop eating so much I. Eat meat I I love beef actually chicken and pork more harmful at the moment to the planet than beef and lamb, which are really good ways locking in carbon. Out Cattle to graze on grassland. No. In kind of big shot feedlots. Basha grassland and they're really good at singing carbon and keeping that carbon in soil so that she quite Ekanayake friendly to have a bit of beef every now and then not a whole obviously The Gist of how we manage our soil how the cost it 'cause great civilizations died out overnight pretty much. Bye Bye. You complete soil erosion. Soil intense we've farming and they did an Polanco members mazing triple I did PALANCA and the the head of the archaeological. Department in Mexico City flew out to show me around the ruins with my parents of so-called tattoos like nine months old and. And he they. He said, you know we don carbon analysis and they basically shut down all the trees they were building the Pyramids. They overused that population explosion and they ruined the saw and they died out of. Having A. Thousand Years They died after about twenty and we just these patterns we see and ally date feel I didn't feel like doom and gloom about it i. feel like this hope that every single one of us have such power just how we eat because food and how it's transported outgrown uses more energy and more water than any other industry So then if we all just have a bit of kind of excitement about, yes, they can do this. I can eat more vegetables I can buy locally I can goes my local market and that is helping save. The planet is helping save species is to protect the rainforests and we can order it I. think there's a real empowerment about that. The I feel everyone can get behind because I think. So much of life is disempowering these days with technology and huge corporations and the rich getting richer and the poor getting poorer. So much of it feels disempowering. Think food is such a political thing, and that's why I'm saying to see fascinated by it and I guess. Now that I'm talking to you the idea that I'm not going to come out with some of the project is list. So laughable because I saw talking about this i. feel so passionate about that I no longer. Even does not even a glimmer of worry about La. I was actually. Thinking about that because I think as a consumer. I would like to be to be more disclosure about what's in season and when menu for there to be more information about whether whether exit come from whether meets come for away vegetables because I think most people don't really give a lot of thought about whether food come from or whether it's local or not. And Know when you go to buy your your local goes to the supermarket or get your delivery whatever's convenient for most people because has time to go and go around farmers, markets and things just having way goes that if you just want to see the seasonal options local, just click this just shows what's down Abboud I'd love that or in a restaurant if they go. Sorry we marked here because that's actually not free range. I. Mean. You don't even know half the time where things have come from you donate donate and then difficult I think the difficult question also is that we we pay very little profit. And and. And yet we pay a lot for feed at the same time. Say at the checkout we pay very little but then the s which pay for in our taxes has a huge billions and billions is a third advantage as budget is now diet related disease A Diet kills more people now than than smoking related Disease Oh alcohol related disease it's the biggest killer worldwide and that's in developed nations as. Developing so people and this country you know the link between Carnivores Diet is quite bleak. We eat more ultra processed food in this country than any other nation in Europe and and yet we think it's allow this this country blocked. Bannon glysophate. Which is chemical we spray on our fields and also Big Companies Spray on wheat after they've picked it to dry out quicker. So they can praise quicker and make more money. On this idea that that the the people in charge of making feet. Governed by Prophet and nothing else you guys have AIDS have been linked to Alzheimer's to dementia to diabetes to cancer to so many diseases and they tried to find across Europe. I just think. At some stage we've got to realize how crucial is the food that we put body. How we treat the soil and how linked to the to life to the rainforest species to insects even at the Earth Worm, you know we're losing insects without the earthworm mesler is nothing says all linked? Again, it's not meaning to be depressive. If we can take more interest in the how we eat what we eat a more pleasure in it and allow ourselves time for it and maybe this whole. Technological Revolution where we've got more robots. Some people say well, then he worked four days a week because be enough work. Well maybe that's a good thing. Maybe we'll spend more time gained feels than picking feed ourselves or going to the markets or just preparing a meal because all say. Being, able to cook, and that's one of the work that Chacin school stars, which this amazing charity that teaches kids about food and how to cook because it's so enabling. If you don't know how Hook and you also live in a flat, that's been designed badly other Scott. No proper kitchen in it then that's really Ebeling to build feed yourself but you can feed yourself really cheaply. If you do that how to cook and how to make onion taste delicious to make some black beans tastes delicious and feed yourself with nutritious grains and. Not, not rely on really expensive. Say. It sounds like such an obvious thing. You wonder why it's not just a really stable part of the curriculum anyway that make people can feed themselves. Well, you start to wonder sort English cynical thought of what's was the benefit and keeping people. So they always make their own decisions and they can't. You know is, is there some sort of economic bonus where people are actually just go and buy processed food or feel I have two other ways to feed themselves when they have the basic tools are just making themselves nice tweet but also I think the economics is. The small guy doesn't win. So the small guy was talking about the farmers who are looking after the soil, not spraying the of chemicals looking off the wildlife they got the worst deal they're not getting the most of their money. Whereas often industrialized huge companies that do make the money from processing the food growing crops on. And and then present kind of cheat ready meals. But which we paid for by the river pollution by the lack of the the need to keep on putting more fertilizers on soil that's knackered and dying and say, yes, there are lots of hidden costs and I think we need to stop being honest about those costs and also the government needs stop being honest about how to help poor people be able to eat better feed because it's often the most disadvantaged kids are not given access to in vegetables because they cost more relatively than. Shikha and oil and stuff at that is often. Anyway subsidized. And it should be fresh fruit and vegetables that are substitutes. Bought lately and local networks because that supports farmers, we know that most economies are run by small medium businesses. If you can look after those visits spacey everyone's Ak. Huge large companies. So anyway I guess it's quite socialist. I guess there is. A sense to. Look after the farmers feed, Mathare wage, the cost the poor people make sure they go access these vehicles and not just next to corner shop that only sells process. Then cost the government fortune anyway in Portentous at school and diabetes obesity or that stuff none of Myers for free. Now I mean. When you're saying I must be so many countries in Europe that just look us and why they in these basics. So Wrong To know what the scary thing is. Globally is all moving that way. You know even countries like frauds. Is. The multinational companies make a lot of money by persuading us to eat ultra processed foods. That's what they spend all their marketing budget on the compare much the government spends on marketing fresh vegetables to the nation might be ten million or something, and you combat the hundreds of millions. Therapy companies spend trying to convince us that dairy Motzer, delicious boys, more chips by Patrick Chris by Marlins Nicobar because that's much more fun than having a single sicker in. These kind of. Far Right, I heard this young woman on on Radio Show going people on idiots they know that food's not bad for them or they have to say no, and I think that's rubbish. That is okay. It's being marketed marketed marketed martyred to leave us and we're all human. I'm also were designed to to seek out fat and sugar and salt, and the combination of all of them is completely delicious and unavoidably kind of addictive and there's also an emotional tie like. The I think so much of your relationship with food is perfectly sealed before you even double digits. So if you were given those things as a kid, then there's like a emotional residents isn't narrow and comfort in that and I need to taste. Yeah. Potatoes you'll take sent me ages for the Golden Arches not to have Pavlovian hungry response just from looking at the golden of crazy. It took way like over a decade probably actually stopped eating, McDonalds? No, totally just. From when I was tiny yeah I'm still and I'm tired. The first thing I do is reach for junk feed is that's comforting tastes delicious course it does little reason why they're making billions of pounds of prophet is something you talk about with your daughters they really aware of Louis Things I didn't actually talk about it basically we. Try and. We. Love we love fees we laser butter and olive oil and I'm not really precious about sugar and we don't do anything. We dainty alternative sugar anything because I find that's just another fad and. All my all the females in my family models and my mother was quite anorexic and I basically, he wrote with so many Feta Cheese and I had feeder. She's all through my twenties and it was like a chain around on my neck dominated everything. All food was how fast how? Those punishing masters and I am completely free of now and I eat crap sometimes danger but generally, I feel better than when I'm eating feed that it's delicious. But I whatever I won't ever nobles and I my daughters to have any rules or any. And I'm sure I'll give them some issues and I'm sure stuff you hand without meaning to you definitely the. But. Basically. I mean we just we just eat process with here so they don't even see it. But you know what's not Where we have a field day. This is great. This is our. Packaging and everything very exciting. Do. What does it very? Family places. That's something that was before you had a family or do you think that that sort of grown with the company as evil? So raise your. Yeah I. I don't think we ever meant it to be family, but it just it just kind of fun. I think that kind of feed is fun for kids where they can be the the masters of their own invention. I can build our in tekkers they can put whatever they want to know and those small plates I a great because if you've got small appetite is nicer to see small things and it's colorful and I think funny enough. To, Mexico and the hold, the whole culture is welcoming for kids. It's that hot typical Latin atmosphere where kids are really late at parties with grown ups and stuff and I think as solving quite irrepressible about Mexican culture and maybe that's what kids love about going to a hacker because. You can't help feeling. You just always feel that slight bit of excitement is true. Energy hasn't buzz. Yeah, and that is that's to staff our like our angelic I feel. So lucky we have such cool. Star forty s we got these amazing people who work you know and it's just great great plus you get Tequila which definitely house also. Or? Think or lockdown. Jankulowski this God's way Richard. Margherita. So yeah, every Friday. Night, we would do these little discos in our. John. It became like a real unconfessed and then we used to basically the prices got second night out because after that, we put the little to to bed and then but let old one-step for bit late, and then we have a couple of cocktails and eat something. Nice. It was like a Friday nights and it just meant we actually shape to the weekend we definitely have done for the Definitely really something. Otherwise all the days blur into one. It's funny because my mom I'm not using this advocate drinking during or any point by my mom. She hasn't really been drinking at all and she was like it's no different could have been having a drink every evening it's no difference. I think Richard I at one point he said I think I'm GonNa have a bit of time of when I was like I'm not so nice the end of the day and then like a glass of something just punctuation of like well done another day happened. The Sun will rise again today. Rolls. Over. Rose. was going to ask you. Listening to you talk I kind of get the impression that a lot of your drive and passion and all the things you got going on in the. Books and the projects they would all be going on whether you'd had children are not and it feels like your kids are kind of along for the ride but would you say that's a fair thing would you think that they have actually kind of? Influence your creativity or influence the choices you've made I think I think they are deaf I. think that's Fabio happening anyway. Because it, it's my passion and my what is my passion? But they also my passion and I think I think the walls quite scary at she when you've got children, you think about their future what's going to happen in the future? So I think. But also they a check on my work and I think. I think Daphne number. Three. Once, three children does no real hope of of of some level of work. You know you has no way you can work through weekends anymore and and you know you can't necessarily work till midnight every night because you're just T- shatters. So I think. That really nice side I remember always fearing about becoming such a whole corporate this woman that I lose all kind of softness and kind of you know I just become late one of those ready Hokuto. But who are one of these core that feels almost bad can a calling out my sisterhood anyway but I didn't want to be safe acres that I had was work. I think people really important to me and I I really love having their little these little nature's and they can be maddening sometimes. But that just that was a really good fun than really fun and it's fun having them around and I think. That is fun. And I know that's very. I think he's a really bad mother lime really crazy. The kitchen I'm really bad any the lockdown school. Projects I merely shoot me. Shipping Teacher Sorry Robert but didn't know that about myself radio or at least it wasn't a big reveling it's actually fully aware fully aware as well. You know I think it's fun having them along the right and if I can make their lives fund in any way and I just you just want them to be quite people that you. Give a shit about the world as well. But we'll say keeping fun because in the end of the day, just reporting the world for short time to have a few children or not and have some fun as my mother says, what what else are we here for really in the scheme of being a small planet or big Cena. System Yeah. Well, it sounds like. Your child and that was quite quite serious and you weren't always having lots of fun sounds like that something that you really keen to rectify. Yeah I. think that's I. Think. Whilst I knew the lockdown thing with the schooling that when the wheels fell off that so quick but I really hope that my family can look back and think that we had a lot fun too and it has been weird one isn't it? Because as I felt guilty when we were having a nice time as well because dealing with the anxiety and the stress was predictable horrible predictable. But how the bit where you sat there thinking actually this is really nice. We're together to go. That is quite Still the reason why we're not done as been dubbing abstracts in lots of ways. Yeah, and IT'S Where things get your head around be really interesting to see what his generation making in the voter and talk about it. Well I think that's why they they've got to get them back to young normality since possible because you know as you felt. You know my kids are privileged and we have been out bicycling and we've been an outside space so much and I just think about the kids you haven't had the and eating properly and you know makes you feel desperate just thinking about them and there's like logical fallout from this. Absolutely. So yeah, I reckon they just got to work out a way to look after the children who feature the kids where the school meal is there main nourishment of the day and was so many gaps in the woodwork that don't actually add up as this. Is Pretty Shameful Ready yeah. Definitely. Be a fallout from all of it but. Hopefully everything kinda stuck right itself by September then it won't have been Yup. You're right. There's definitely my kids to very privileged. Thank. Even lucky enough to be having a nice time with their families. Really. I'm sure it'd be something that will come out again and again it's conversation starts emerging seeing each other again. Wherever this new normal is that we're kind of experiencing but but for the Meantime. There does feel like a sense of community comradeship nurturing looking after each other i. do think that has been so much positives. Saying at the lake. And people reaching each other I think that it's been a really lovely see. Yeah I agree and the fact that you know your instinct, the beginnings taking bread runs people that's an nutshell. I, can I reach out and Sam here if you need me and his nourishment something bates among kitchen last. Lovely. Lovely today. Could be semi give Richards to trust me US oh. Yeah. And they just thought. Like this I that's all I want st now is just like really go nuts. Love to dance I would love to. I felt like getting about how your thighs hunting from definitely feeling a little bit of your case on. Say You said you've had two birthdays during that, your oldest and your. TATTY turn nine. She's my eldest. She's a proper gaumont cheese historical. So last night she came down. Not Not supposed to be coming down, we were having dinner and got some soul from the market. And my ninety hit coach to Asian style ninety couldn't cook a single thing when she started a year ago has become the most incredible cook. INSTAGRAM and I I mean so impressive and she incredibly Asian Soul and Greens and vice versa, and then we got the leftovers. So I, made kind of break up the soil. And then I got my Samachar out from the cupboard which as chilly Pena Oil from California and insane on anything and we were laying on our peanut and Chile all onto our fishing Greens and rice and touchy game down and she came down to and that was quite hot. This peanuts you know you don't like it slightly go even your property hope for you and they're both what I know. Now I WANNA give it a go and they're like, that's really delicious. I got such. Proud. When they start getting late Fiji. Yeah. So yeah, Tattoos Nine Ati is seven. And and just I'm then is he is is a door is four now nearly for although she still the baby yeah. Yeah Yeah I mean I sort of tried to stop myself mosque if they're into food. Is Question but at the same time, if you're cooking and eating at the family and stuff, it's still be anybody's live even if it's not what they do for a living as well. Well, amazing about kids as you do realize that they all eat differently anywhere and they will have different tastes and so then then. Perfect. I. Think. It's a really easy thing for mothers to themselves about about how they feed their children and whether eating healthy enough and I think you just do your best but I definitely was a conscious bag introducing as many different flavors as early on. I'm not very good at giving them options I'm afraid they get one option, and then if they don't want to. Yeah I'm quite hardcore by that because I feel I feel the need to try things and they do have to eat screen vegetables but they love green vegetables actually you know. Because they are delicious but vegetables the boring on delicious safe. You've give a child some coach. Broccoli with no seasoning and naboth oil lemon juice on 'cause we're going to like it. But if you want some Greens in a pan with garlic and oil and bit assault and. Squeeze Lemon Geez you know, hey, presto delicious and I think the same with French dressing might kids will. Eat pretty much anything as long. One thousand dressing. So I think kids are like. infantilized a bit with food one, hundred percent agree with you know and if you'll, if you'll fed chicken nuggets and checks all the time, that's all you're gonna eat mom was I. think they should be experiencing as many flavors as you eat. You know why should they get a kind of limited range? I think they should never cook kids something you wouldn't want to eat yourself. People do that. They'll make some cobbled together massive a male and where they go and you would you be happy. That's you know one of the not very excited. is there something that you find? Is that a real like sure for firmly head got like favorite favorite thing all three of them love while I mean the hammock pizzas really fond. We've got the day starter to go but. I mean we have treats we definitely have trees I'm trying to think I. got I mean fish and chips. Great. Fish Tacos they love. So we've had to make official since we're has been shot because I really miss the fish tacos from. which they love but but I still completely got it wrong like the other day I made some kind of Daphne using out some leftovers which normally always delicious love leftovers. But this one you know was, and then I found some TOMATILLO SALSA I've been testing recipe for. So I stood that in a and then I'd forgotten that on deer that a pit on his basic of its much flavor and protein was quite. Spicy and the whole thing say spicy and touchy my eldest just retired she had a total meltdown. She screamed for half an hour about how discussing it was why rich case a quote, the other team when no way going to touch it at all it was like a Friday night we were supposed to be awesome band together and having a meal together. It was a total disaster anyway saying we all got it wrong even. Yeah and there's actually there's something so hard for your. Spirits to deal with when you've cooked something for ages of your kids and you think this is great and then they just let I don't get anything that there's so much love in that dishes. One is all the time. It's infuriating mothers. We're all spending plates we're just. Trying to your copy of your article, and then you're trying to make sure that the the floor swept and it's not looking to you disgusting and you do the shopping, and then you realize wash doesn't come out of the washing machine and then someone's emailing you or asking you to go a knees night and you're desperate to become just as. Serious as any other person and you're just you're thinking. How all these balls in the air. So, BEN SOMETIME SAPA YEAH Forever up yeah and when do they normally have good idea of what you do for a living do you think? They talk boy their friends I think I think my three of quite Gomez in some ways. We have the news on much banks I was listening to the radio so that friends sometimes they are your mummy. A. She got famous mom how many mom's famous and then are famous one over. So. Yeah. I think I think but I think they don't really care. I, think they probably enjoy the fat. They get nice feed although I think sometimes specially my middle child, it doesn't care that much about feed would prefer it if I wasn't a Kirk and then she knew We've got one of these in my family definitely just gets a bit later. Trying too hard here. Indulgent. What was I gonNA say T. Question, going on from the. Because with when you're saying before about work as a things on as you could sort of blamed things on work and say you know I'm working you need to me space on working. That's why I was rubbish with. Dealing with a friend or something like that. But with with the lockdown, I feel like. Normally I can do my what when the kids at school. But now they're all the time and I'll say I need to do some work or need but do you find you have the space head is just girona they is everywhere are accessible for them we are. We are really lucky because we moved into a new house. A year before lockdown, he'd been working on it in lockdown and filling skits with Earth and building things my dad's building my desk over claimed would that we took from the kitchen floor. So it's been a bit of family kind of effort and I like things I like things that being a bit gratuity at. All my plate prepared and perfect but equally, the desperation sometimes when you got your three kids on top you, they know you're in the house and that that desperation because my husband is angelic and those lists but he still has the willpower or the ability may be shut the door and just turned into his work whereas I feel like as the woman if the House that's always an element where we were just pulled in pulled in and I think having not supposed to work, it's really Hokuto and I think I think women Daphne have suffered more from lockdown. You know. The washing the sweeping. Mart does leads but but I still feel the women share is quite massive and then joined to keep a work life gang is quite hogle. Yeah. I. Think I read something someone put up Saying like. Mango tend to have a an office or somewhere they go to do their work whereas the women are trying to do often the kitchen table and for me that was. Yet that's completely an our house which is wonderful studio. So the dynamic has always been when he goes into the studio, that's his space, but I have equivalent and I've never really needed it specifically because always come out and do my work elsewhere. So having not having that it's been really I really struggle with the lack of head space was something I. It took me weeks to sort of try and find a way to. Give that somewhere give it a space couldn't do it. I cycled around regions, poke I. Really. Just, something to get out and. Say here when you could actually have some time to yourself. Yeah. But I'm really lucky. The lovely ninety lives with us. So yeah but yeah. Title Sanity Being Restored Yeah. You need a bit of that. Yeah, and actually that's something I. Think I need to carry forward religious trying to find a way to. Get that balance a bit better for I mean the moments well, let's morning my eleven year old wanted he's written screenplay and wants to film the eight-year-old dressed song. They can wanting me to do his face paint so that it matched the rest of his costume and it's getting really crossing me I said I. Couldn't really get their heads around like you keep saying that every day work come on come and do project but I think is really good for children to know them other works I. I love the You know I, say he's going to pay for next holiday. How do you think we lovely feed and why do you think you've got nice bedrooms as because I work and? I could not work, but then all these lobby things might go away and I think it's a really good lesson for them. Yeah. But also I think you're going to be very calm when they get older because if they do have the equivalent of your wilderness years and they just need to go off and do their own thing and have event is going to be like. Yeah thumbs up. Crossing fingers. Did, you have an idea of what kind of mom you might want to do you think getting among Mommy though he? Love my parents actually really they were. They were they were in some ways. I was exposed me to kind of achieve a lot, but they will also really give me freedom and size allows with working parents. Yeah. They were my mom stop working at some point but but basically I was not given curfews. They trusted me to come back when I want to see one is going cobbing and stuff like that. So loved dancing. So that was really good I never really went off the rails in those teen years but so I, I would hate the like that but. But we love we've got this kind of character in the family, which is the linus because when I get enough sleep, I can get really grouchy and I find Saturday mornings and my really really west point because he got through really punishing week often, and you got Saturday and you probably gonNA t late on for a definitely. Bit Too much and then Saturday morning and it's full on there's no confirmed or of school all came schooling and then everyone's going on. That point I was I I. Kind of grouchy line comes out to me and I start roaring around the house and I hate that about me but at least. Now. It's become big jake and sometimes tatty would you say to Mommy do you won't get sleep? So I know what to look for your that's obviously not cool and is amazing once you've had some Steve how much everything is better. Oh Yeah. There's a reason why you can talk to people by denying us like an immediate thing isn't that Low Blood Sugar and not an athlete the two things if you can sort those balances out then yeah. Well, there's a much happier place and actually yesterday I was in a really bad moods just finding everything a bit snappier and knowing and then. I went out to a couple of errands suicides perk up Article V felt much better and I was laughing about something that you wouldn't file phony but basically carrying up at the post everything. Now, what you're two meter things that cute going for ages and I. Say, this is a really good ride is quite a long time to keep it went to go on is really good like for ten minutes theme this to me was. Very, very amusing. I'm Ann Richard Went Oh, it's really nice. Now you're in a good mood and I as I just. I'm not I'm not finding anything funny anymore. So I know if you're the same, they get good meet again don't comment that it's happening. I don't know. You want to know how I know I'm an optimist. Because I'm attempting to record this. And a very noisy house. And other basically been a bit brazen and I just wanted to sitting room, which means anytime anyone can walk in. Anyway. Did. You enjoy my Tommy I think she was so brilliant link candid. And Open and? Sometimes, I walk away from chat people and then a load of other questions pop into my head afterwards. And that's what we're told me I had all these questions I thought. Did I ask her enough about the things she was listening to the cost about sustainable Food when's December farming? Maybe you guys are interested in that I have to make sure you have that information but also she talked about her issues with foods and how she overcome them and how she used to have really big problems with food and she's worked through it and I thought the time you know it's tricky. Isn't it? When it involves mental health you don't really want to push too hard with things because the private however I thought if I just write her name out on OSC, she can say, yes or no conscious about whether or not to. Bit more about it and actually she was really thoughtful and open and sent me amazing email detailing how she'd managed to work through those issues I'm going to share that with you So is I'm GonNa read I'm going to read what she sent me. Okay. So she said when it came to the poor costs that she likes about food. Comes from the one she loves the school farmer armor is really interesting about the food supply and the people making amazing choices to how they grow their food and simultaneously nurtured environment. There was a look initiatives gave local people greater access to fresh fruit and vegetables, and it is really interesting. She says in brackets I never thought I'd be listening to farming. Focus. Pasta, unto you maybe you're be funnies of listening to farming podcast. And said with regard to healthy attitude to food it came off from a place appreciating food more taking more time to prepare it rather than guilty snatching it and never setting rules around I was allowed to eat. I see that's quite a big thing. Isn't it never setting rules around what she's allowed to eat and actually appreciating taking more time and like the wisdom of that? So she says that These these many books out there telling you how to eat better and eat clean I. Understand Food and what with every day. But even I find the mixed messages confusing avoid cubs, avoid protein only greens eat fat grains eat grains. Find the conflicting advice unfathomable and I know what? I'm doing the kitchen what people who don't cook much but simply wants to eat better what which are the many conflicting foods eating does one line and she says after many years of trying any diet came away the symbol answers to follow a non be around, listen to your own rhythms metabolic place and begin to understand what makes you feel good and your body feel happy. that sort of stuff is really obvious isn't it but actually, how often do we take time to really think about what we eating an absorb in that way? I mean my own theory about food is that so many of our relationship with is former. So small the understandable that it gets tied into emotional stuff and it gets very complex and hard to UNWRAP. But yes, by taking time to prepare your food and being engaged in the task and not feeling guilty, you probably actually look after yourself look better as a result. Sorry. That was my thoughts. To continue back to. Me She said I realized that when I was relaxed and spent half in the kitchen chopping settings deeming and tasting food. Part of the driving raging hunger has such power of early twenty s was already satiated by Thomas eat it was not real. Hunger has control of me but hunger to feed and unmet emotion a began to stop stop thinking that certain foods with the enemy. Dawned on me I was at my happiest when I was feeding full of people, the playing with food or ingredients and making them taste good was one of satisfying things did creating food eating sharing it made me feel great. The more I appreciate that the more appreciated me realize denying myself certain things. Then more gradually and unconsciously I stopped denial. When did I when I did sometimes wolf down a vast bar of chocolate ice shrugged my shoulders and moved on. Well, I think there's a lot of wisdom in that and explains her food philosophy. I'm really glad she shared that with me say thank you to me and actually my body is telling me. Once, chips So that is a good thing. I'm going to eat some chips. I love chips and. Chips and chocolates, and maybe okay Kurkin. Yet it's time to leave me as an but look a certain a bold place in a busy house and no one came to disturb me say. I'm just listening to what my body wants to eat enlisted to Emma body wants to sit down to Next week is the lost episode of this series of spinning plates. Thank you for holding my hand through this exciting time. My final guests series is the writer journalist Hadley Freeman. Who spoke to be very beautifully about. Her book which details the story of her grandma and talks about Jewish chat. And could house applause about her grandma's tale also spoke to you about movies about raising twins and the baby. About trying to write from high how does she do that? Well, TNN and you'll find out. Anyway, let's love them via. Awesome chocolate was Jason wherever funds. Just here little one love pop patrol. What about dinosaurs? Well, perfect because the new season of patrol is here and guess what it's a Dino Rescue I can't wait for my kid to watch each episode ten times a night on the plus side all your holiday birthday gift shopping is pretty much done because of course, there are a whole new batch of Dino, rescue toys to and for a limited time at target get fifteen percent off the new patrol dino rescue toys with Code Pau fifteen patrol dino rescue, check it out. It's going to be possum.
Episode 101 Adam Handling Restauranteur & Chef, The Frog
"Welcome to the podcast wet together. Every Monday. We explore hospitality in its very broad sense from cultural and cooking cocktails and coughing nutrition and farming politics on Animal Welfare Organic, and Sustainability, family, and business entrepreneurship, and much much more common with me. Mark crip about where our food and drink comes from and the businesses and more. Importantly, the human beings thrive on where we decide to spend our time and money sign up to a weekly newsletter humans of hospitality coated UK and hit subscribe on your podcast player of choice. Nothing too exciting in the hospitality news. This week out to help out continues to get generally some very strong feedback from most of the sector our town locations generally still seem to be stronger than city centers no surprises there and rent. Armageddon still looms on the horizon with more and more CVA's enclosures announced on almost a daily basis, and we're officially in recession as a country and hospitality is a significant cause that. But with all of that backdrop, the sun has been shining and lots of people are trading well making the most of a very short season nervous about what? May bring but nervous not you have to be impressed with today's guest energy levels Adam. Handling Works hold has achieved a lot at his no shore of an opinion or to that he is quite happy to share now. Adam join me just forty hours after reopening the frog, his flagship restaurant in covent garden. He'd been through a particularly traumatic closure period where he lost four of his venues and learn a great deal about the business side of running restaurants, Adam speak openly and honestly about the financial physical and mental aspects of what he's been through. But he's kept a huge number of his team despite fifty seven percent payroll costs reopening. He's keen to find another venue. To accommodate his talented crew and try and ensure they keep their jobs he's working hard. He's thinking about Mitchell and stars, and he's one of the most driven people I've chatted out in. And for all things sustainable and what he learned through his now closed restaurants, the butterfly and being. Very very infectious. I wish on the very best for the future and like many of us he may wind up with a stronger business as a result of all. Here's learn in the past few months. Now, remember if you enjoy this podcast, can you do me too quick favors please one is head over to the website humans of hospitality, code UK and hit the patron button where you can buy me a thank you. And secondly, can you please polls this episode pick up the device you're listening on scroll down to the review section on the APP and hit five stars and subscribe even better leave a few words of encouragement. It makes me smile helps the pesky algorithms, get this podcast in the as of more people, and that helps me get even better guess for you and I to enjoy. Win Win all around for just a few seconds work. Thanks and enjoy the chair and one final thing. The audio delay really annoyed me listening back but hopefully, you won't even notice it but there is a little delay that makes it sound a bit slow in responding to Adam sometimes sorry blame the Internet but rest assured I'm not actually suffering from some sort of mental delay. Chess, Adam handling chef and restaurant welcome to the podcast and thank you so much for sparing the time and I say that to most people because I'm always grateful the people spend the time but with you I eh, it could be anymore rail because you are an exceptional busy human beings. Thank you. Can you just explain where in the world? Are you at the moment please Adam Hey yeah. Thanks for having me. I'm in my Chelsea Elsie in Montel tell south doing some stuff. Yeah this morning. So it's a nice comfortable. Excellent is Pyongyang. Opened on Saturday but restaurants the one where it's going to be open the least at the moment so far this month is only Thursday Friday Saturday it's often but the Basel in seven days a week. So I'm sitting out on the terrace enjoying the sun. Wow very nice. Many people about. No it's actually surprisingly strange. You know Chelsea's usually full of people can everywhere because of all the shops but is is completely dead isn't goes down out here at. Covent Garden and it's literally like walking in Asakusa is so many people. Wow really that's interesting. Because somebody described it to me, I was trying to Chris Gumbo lose the brew, House and Kitchen a couple of days ago, and he was saying that it was a little bit like a Polo Mint London at the moment in the fact, the center was completely empty and dead, but then the outskirts, the suburbs certainly from their venues wise will really busy but that's good to hear at least governance picking up your own garden is absolutely packed. Russ you're going to be building an outside area there think the end of this week. So I lost big flowers office and things that I was really license now to to a Russian on the streets. So not only do we have the inside area to cease. We've actually being given a licensed with thirty six seats outside which is fantastic. Just go to make sure we can make the most of it before winter comes in. On does that mean you'll have more covers the needed originally. Yeah, they would be sure about outside we're going to do untold on the road, which will be like bar snacks, Bar Food and zero waste SORTA stuff. So for instance, fishing sandwiches but using tub at trim. lobster rolls using the lobster knuckles from the loves playful things like that. We cannot see so very affordably because they're basically a a wasted item in the kitchen. Amazing art what we'll definitely touch on that and I just love your. Continuous creativity you're judging by a busy you are and variables and all the things that you've done at such a young age. You don't look like a person who was particularly out to be locked down and told not to do anything for. Four months. So we will get a little bit about what you did do a much more about reopening, but can I just Aso's Saturday morning? You know four hours ago just a little bit more having had the restaurant shot for four months. That was you'll. You'll reopening morning of the froggy also flagship covent carden venue. How did you feel on Saturday morning to be reopened again? Was it quite emotional and how did I daiga? It was the most the day before we weren't even finish the building works. So you know it was still like a crap out of our go up that he's done that paint east touched up when I went in this morning at sorry Saturday morning, the builders would be working all through the night in. So George are quick jamming was he was really on stunning it was Soviet. I'M NOT GONNA lie all of my savings I now have are now in this restaurant so it doesn't welcome Kinda screwed. But it's absolutely beautiful and it was so amazing too to have guests in the restaurant talk about it and it's the first time since opening Ontai Restaurant Group where I've changed gardens menu one, hundred percent. So right they're given three months off is given us time to develop really progress Kush and make the menu fall back to the husband so it was really emotional. What was going to do with the building because you'd already when did you open? It was about a year ago was. Or is three years September. So it said, yes, quite long. Okay. So it was just literally a refresh job. was building work as a result of Cova changes. Well ironically, it was like a blessing in disguise about a week before. The apartments of the restaurant there boiler overflowed in it kind of ruined on the bare floor went down into restaurant during service but luckily, right at the beginning. So we managed to shift everyone to Chelsea and like kind of like made it massive the ceiling in the floor. So doing the insurance company they're the ones who did the reform. So it was a such a blessing in disguise by a refurbished was free oversee a little touching with new tables in some new service areas I an old rest in an e bars. Well, that was that was US but Yeah. Because of a happy accident the. Yeah that's amazing. How how long would you have had to close for? Presumably, it wouldn't have taken for months to do that. It took about five weeks to to do that thought. Wow damage than them. Yeah. Yeah Yeah But actually I didn't think it was not much anything if I know, is the root needed to be touched up paint in the woods? Of Florida I would just like us is wear and tear insurance light note what we do that as I am not going to say no to that Gosh that's the first good news insurance story. I've had on this podcast for quite some time. Everybody else has been swearing and cursing about them so. Good like they should be very grateful you should get free premiums will Kelly as as well. I don't know about that. Is when we tried to answer the covert closer. Yeah. You and everybody else. I think I heard you say you even have pandemic cover, but because it wasn't listed no interest basically. Correct and I think that's the same with most insurance people. You know the cost a lot of money you know, five, six, seven, thousand, pep property a year, and then you get you get you get in some trouble you get you need help on their light. Yeah. Insurance Councils, ex lions ED happened now said, plenty hell. Voltages. Is Incredibly. Good that you've done with the floor story. But we're back. Back in the room I'm so have reopened in day then did it did it because it is very unusual I think that we you know close all of our restaurants and then reopened them all at once and the staff a little bit rusty. But how did it go did united on Saturday? We nailed it. We nailed it was We did a test as whilst to build as what was going off on Friday where our I ate, and so some of the other senior directors they all eight and the staff did did did a test on on the is rather than guests. And that was difficult I was worried. But the following day I was on the past everyone was on the bowl it was phenomenal and just to see is many faces fest days are always really good because it's all the big fans of the restaurant. It's not ones that are you know the business ones or whatever they really want to indirect there and they want to see the journey progress from when they came in countless times before too. Then coming back like the must have been probably ten tables that were like you with the last person AIDS at lockdown. So we wanted to make use the fester comeback. Is. It's amazing is so beautiful and it's really heartwarming that we have such a loyal following in the grip. Yeah I think love isn't it? When you know all that hard time enclosure and the financial sort of catastrophic impact and you wonder what you're GonNa day that public support custom support. Is Emotional and I think it does motivate you to to put. On the other side I think doesn't it? One hundred percent, hundred percent it makes you feel great and the team. Yeah. Yeah definitely. So for those listening who don't know the fro, can you just describe how many offices it? What's your style food? Yeah. So frigging broke my hate in covent garden south like Shit restaurant is only issue seats insight and it's very much a menu based on Britain. So we say when we tell you how do you describe the food is British food inspired by London and the? London. Is London's stunning at multicultural city, and we take our inspiration from everybody that become across everywhere that we've traveled basically using fundamentally British ingredients. So where making oyster sauce for one specific type of Daesh where using initial, he says, we'll make our own ISOS if we're using Kimchi, we're not buying CONC- from career were making our own using the colleagues elites roots for instance as. But we take inspiration to stunning flavors, the style of foods from around the world and we make it British because I think it's quite good to to to to say that there is no real rule book about British The way it's going because it's such a young cuisine of the night was French in the roast beef which but Richard I think for the last seven to ten years is really Making its own. So this mobile rule book. Of that Absolute Santana and you've had some some amazing feedback I've not been but next London I will definitely be become in. Can I just also impact of? And and closing your restaurant. So you've started to reopen just to the weekend there any of your venues pre cut pre event that you won't be reopening will sort of outcome of what's happened. Yes I think there's four of them. So. We're not opening ugly butterflies Brokaw Cheson and Being an iron stack so I lost four in A. Blaze. Sadly. That is sad is that is that just based on not being to get enough financial support or just looking at the outlook for London and thinking demands not going to be there what's the main reason for those? I got no financial support. The government was I. don't know how to wear any acid absolutely shit toward metality. You know when when when Boho? Condemned hospitality to death by saying. Avoid restaurants in buzz but keep them open. You know who you are still continuing to pay things you know you have to pay. You still have to pay the stock was furloughed didn't come in until just after that you suspect that just east of the rents of spe food you got feedstock already you got Weinstein all that stuff and he sentenced to. Death because my company is one company adamant unlimited and that's all the restaurants you know that bounceback fifty grand loan thing what a load of crap is not hundred percent guaranteed I didn't get it at all and where people would have individual companies restaurant so that it's easier goes down you just cut off bankrupt bankrupted the rest stay afloat. I had it under one. So I was only eligible for fifty K. for all of our nine. Let's which I didn't get because we were too too big to lodge and. Financially not in a strong position Yeah. So what the government was saying publicly about how they're supposed to Tallahassee I don't really know how to wear any better by being a little box. And it put me in a lot of problems I lost. I lost a lot of things of. And Yeah. You've been dat you overcome you conquer makes you stronger and also makes you want to vote in the next election even though I never get into politics. Yeah, it does seem for doesn't think you know the the rateable values the fifty one keiko must just be laughable in I mean even down here in Bournemouth where I'm based I didn't qualify because my rights will values too high imagine anybody in hospital in London, go right to value on the. Fifty one K to qualify for any of the grounds and the C. Bills we did eventually manage to qualify fortunately by no. Yeah. The vast majority. Didn't on his head probably only we've been in business a long time and had a good relationship with a bang by take a even that the bank just weren't. To Talk Hospital is considered to be too high a risk industry at the moment to invest in R. Suppose. Also sure it is. It is an losing so many restaurants as well. He is jeopardized on drugs massive it. Yeah. Well, what could you always seem to come across super positive and pumped and need achieve so much younger. So you take at no point. Did you consider just chocolate in the town of walking away if you've always decided of you that you're going to knuckle down and try and get through? I've never spent so long in my career in tears, you know it's been an emotional is being an emotional wreck for me but you know you can just sit and Moan and grumble and laying the wealth for the problems which it's talking adapt you. You know you you modify Your Business Plan you modify your your idea of what to do. You'll forecasts ANNUA doctorate you create a new avenue, a new stream of revenue because if you don't, you'll lose everything. I. Need don't just do it for yourself. You do for the team that's dedicated years and years of what? So. As owner of the group I'm the one that has to. Wake up in the morning just say stop being such a little bitch. We can create something new. Let's create Hain where we can create revenue that way to keep the restaurant group afloat. Let's you know let's work even harder for the recover God in this outlets up. Chelsea's stuff. You know we lost some but we we consolidate everything that we're doing. So yeah, I'm always one that incites or don't get me wrong when. I get upset sometimes, but I'll never show it to the staff because as soon as I do it, they're like crap maybe we are in trouble maybe we do have to furnish up. but with all the with all the pleasures of the restaurants we've kept near enough mostly all of the staff near enough not all of them but mostly, and we put them all into the restaurants that are still been doing. That is because they're in a west position than I am to goodness sake fire them right now where they're gonNA work no one's hiring. No one's hiring until inundated with people weren't to work for it within the group because there's nothing that. So we make A, we upgrade my business plan where it's is is pretty much just breaking even to the next few months until we hopefully opening another restaurant towards the end of the year so that I have to finally go back to their push the wage bill down the arm running at the moment fifty, seven percent wage costs that's mental. In in this current climate, absolutely mental but I refused refused to make everyone who's worked for me for. So many is unemployed justice. Just Una next a little bit of money for for the grip will be fine. We'll survive as long as we keep focused in everybody realizes that one wrong turn and we are in the Shit's. Will Be. Okay. Let's imagine you'll get an immense amount of loyalty. Somebody will tame. Your is the exact chef group chef. He's been with you for twelve years. I. Think I'M GONNA. Say you already have that loyalty but I would imagine. Even, more. So people people really buy in if I think just if you offend to genuine an unopened with him and then try really bloody hard keeping employed. So I imagine your team very supportive of you at the moment. Yeah well Loyal Team Steven. Yeah, you're right shopping the the is the head chef west London he's being with me tenuous shift west London through seven head chef at least with me eight Z chefs of central London's with me. Six I've got a lot of the the the main people because I like to promote within his well. It's all about trying to really pull out as much talent as much. Ambitious is just me as Comey's CDP's whatever and. Really. Push them to make them grew is at the end of the day nobody really wants to stand still there are some out there that are happy to see DP and they wanna stay that way if the rest of the license to just like to cook which is lovely but a lot of the chefs you know got I'm Bishen especially when you're in my group because you see me running around like headless chickens trying to make something. And make a make your business grow and be more exciting new dishes. When you surrounded by people constantly trying to run forward and make something new is inspiring. Rather weather is not just made all of them too so I like I like I like to promote within on all. So in terms of senior chef wise, we very rarely ever hired for them. Pretty good particularly in the last few years because you trying to find quality in the last few years in Chaffetz has been really challenging and I guess. Ironically that's going to be flipped. Now because as you say for the first time in a long time, there's a lot of people looking for work and I just WanNa touch you you mentioned just now. So one of the things I know you away said is a lot of restaurants of inter delivery will also the diversified recently and you do I said the right. So I think you'll food didn't travel. Is Hey and what was the trigger for you launching that Hey Scott for home The trigger was really I had no support from the government. No nothing like that and to be fair I did not see no that. Looked would be so long when it happened, I was thinking Oh maybe a few weeks maybe a month but you know came on the more I worried because I couldn't now not afford anything I eat the salaries of the staff nothing at all. So I. Created with Nikola amounts director Steven the concept of Hanes to say what that let's just make. It's just make dishes that we can do all the prep floor and they can just redo them at home just reheating, warming up and finishing and we'll do videos to it. So I did the my mobile it wasn't anything we nothing we did there where they can scanning Qr code do about I got so much shit for doing that so much from chefs especially outside of London saying why why are you doing videos? You know why are you doing not? They don't want that they won't fish and chips they want. All that giving me a lot of crap on on twitter and I'm just ignoring them I'm listen I'm not being funny. I just made a hundred thousand pounds on him in one month when you were doing that because we're really really hot to really push it and we had a menu that was was like a restaurant menu. It was like the menu was massive everyone's doing one or two dishes and I'm I'm doing a little Phil Phil Big Menu and I'm doing it because it's verity and also I do the whole of the UK. So soon as I did that that was it and then when became came became really Popular. I felt far more relaxed about being able to keep this restaurant group of fluids Fafa or more. So then because that I was now able to pay some of the suppliers that was. That I was using Now, all they Olonga paid for I was able to stop paying things like the electricity because I couldn't have electricity turned off my CCD cameras. Fire alarms will be shut down to and I was able to just to keep the business. Still touching cloth every single every single day, but it was it was more beneficial than going minus minus minus. So I only did it the he the rest of river flow and I would I would ever do takeaway but now it's here to stay because it's a great concept. The menu is going to change more frequently because the restaurant groups are open on. It's just a real fun thing to do if you don't live in, London get to any restaurants you can literally order on before before like a Tuesday and it will be sent out when Thursday delivered to you before lunch on Friday and it has a three day shelf life on it so that you can link to each Friday Saturday Sunday and you can have real real interpretation of arrests or grip anywhere in the game. And it looks amazing. But also from when you had the idea because the speed that you worked literally blows my mind because you don't do things by half from from the sort of concept of a K. we're in the shit we're GONNA launch this to actually launching it because you've done the unites got lovely packaging like you say you did a video for every dish. You didn't just do a couple of items. It's brandon world as a website linked with its essence launching a new business. How long did it take to go from concept to okay we're ready to launch. Seven days. Seven days. It's impressive I watched I watched. All sort of INSTA- post on. NFL Holy Shit because I could see all your bags. We're kinda perfectly branded, and then when you said, you've done a separate video in a Qr code for every dish the you must have more hours in the day than the normal human size. Was it was of. All. Sorts. That It's just the rest of us, Look Adam if I'm honest. So if you could just slow down a little bit some point was it was it a case of a of a really sort of big surge of interest early on and then it's dropped off or is it staying pretty consistent that business? At the two weeks voted London busy. But like me, Me Maria. Jamie, we delivered all the OVA inside ten Mile London radius and we were doing quite laws. The first week we did maybe maybe two hundred dishes in the first week second week maybe maybe right three hundred then added Fedex and ended about one thousand in the week, and then the following was father's Day and I cheer not like two thousand dishes that week and it's just like this is this is crazy. We had so fedex common they pickled apostles up to do it and he needed A. Truck. We had so many boxes everywhere. All wrapped up nice and beautiful to be sent all over the country under. Yeah it was. It was fantastic. It was amazing to see. It has dropped down slightly eight because we've kept the bookings will we've kept the orders purely because we're just opening a restaurant we need to concentrate on that as well as so we while the do it where they both work. Well, then we'll reopen more time slots next week and will change the menu week after that as well. Where you actually producing the food from one of the restaurants have you go separate unit today? In COVINGTON him. So all the chefs are like while you didn't Aretha please for any woken Fritz because we've got no space with this stuff and I'm like there's no space that anywhere we just got to adopt. Love it well, hats off to you because I what I love about our sector is how innovative is and despite the yeah. The twitter negatively. The so much respect for so many people who have just found some way to pivot and get through this and I think it's such an exciting thing and I think in the main. Despite. Government criticism like Essel, all challenges lack of support do was come out positively in a so much has been done feet the vulnerable and feed the NATO s and so many people stood up and UK Potala Azo with an anti-government. It does it does feel like we're getting a little bit more respect whereas we were perceived as way that people. Their students de failed at the industry has come out of this pandemic with maybe a little bit more credibility and understanding the challenges of restaurants. I've noticed that London in London community of hospitality really came together closer and they've they've helps a lot of. All of his out communicating more were chatting but will help each other more. Rats really amazing restaurants on income direct competitors anymore that that and help, and in terms of charity we were doing over thousands meals a week after charity with income before we start at hey Help the vulnerable heavily HSA help of them, and you know who industry does. That will industry has the time to stop everything that doing to really target people that actually need a lot more help than leader. This you know lockdown is even able to do that. People respect what the justice doing rather than bitching and moaning about you know that. Have to wait a long time for an appointment or whatever. But now they actually see they're working hard hard hard as well and deal to give back to the people that are looking after everything looking after everyone ends. One person at least in our family is being looked after by the NHS within this within this closure is phenomenal to get back to them. That's good and I hope Potala is in essence a reflex that people genuinely work on unloved hospitality. We just do so to see so many restaurants fundamentally on their knees financially I would have been so easy to throw in the towel they actually you know they kept their electricity on they kept supplies sweet and they they bought food in. And they produce on will certainly made me very proud i. think that we we stood told represented ourselves well. Yeah, I agree it was it is beautiful to see. Beautiful. Dec-. Yeah. So just focusing on your your your general ethos and over background. To research you work incredibly hard I know I think I read that you put him up you were visiting every restaurant every day then work in the policy in the evening you know what is your general dial? This is a big difference I think between being a chef and being a restaurant her. So you know you also good at the the finance of the business in the branding and marketing. What does the average day look like for them handling? Well give it give it today. We we've restaurant groups now on Monday Sunday, Mondays usually seven days a week operators on all of them apart from exton. But today wake up the crocodile forget have meetings such as I want this week. Going through business plans what we're doing marketing editing social media content to go out on all the platforms. And that sort of stuff that's the day we were close but then I worked very closely migrations team to really break down the we are focused. What do we have a business plan? That's a five year. Business Plan is obviously being reedited from from the virus, and then we do a full forecasting. Every three months we really refocused every Monday to see that it's in line with bookings expend beheads gone up. A little bit more accurate so that we know staffing wise food cost wise. We're safe and in terms of my role now being restaurant. I'm I'm more target that a lot more. We have had jets and all the restaurants that can that can do the prep in I'm making sure that the health safety don in the temperature checks in Latin the costings. In terms of the overall business that yet, that's my role to do it. So. I do finance marketing have your social media I do I do all of that sort of Serb side of the business along with my upstart to Nicholas with me a while. But at night time whenever the restaurant's open, I'm on the past I'm on one. I'm one restaurant pass every single night. So mostly it's covent garden few times a week it can be Chelsea and it really just goes where I want to go but I'm on the past almost I'm on the past every night restaurants opened a nice I really really do have another meeting. So what is it then the drives and motivates you to work quite. So relentlessly because it does sound like a, you know a pretty bunkers workload. What's what's your motivation? To be as to be surrounded by my friends, I get too wet to get away from A. To be more comfortable in to get away from you know the arguing home if there is ever inauguration or screaming child's I get who are to act and I love it. You know we're we're all wench of passionate people but we're being with each other for a long time. So simplest like Oh, what are we doing on the next menu? Let's great and that creating side of the business is the pot I. Love the most because you get more inspired you know. What very closely with US suppliers farmers Mr yet this is coming into season. Trying for this, we have two labs you live and we'll drink slap. So we're constantly developing things you know using waste difficult tells where we can make alcohol and all that creative cited for business is the reason why I go to every Oh, my, which is a real compliant as well. So of chefs serve the food still when you serving them and you see the guest faces and that loving it and you've noticed number four, all of that is so rewarding that it makes you wanna come back again and again and again to work and it makes you love it I always say if you don't enjoy what you're doing Field you're in get out of it, get out of it because you just become a miserable sod. If you really enjoy what you're doing with the people that you're around, you love it you'll constantly keep wanting to be that. So I get to what to get away. Yeah I think you're you've gotta love hospitality because so many people listening or we go in Jesus seven nights a week you know every night in service yeah. We've been busy Friday Saturday and Sunday when everybody off is off I, sort of understand why so many people look at hospitals set to as an industry and just There's no way I'm doing that. But actually when you're in the thick of it is such a buzzes is an such an energy. And a privilege to work and so yeah, thank you for being such an infused the human. So, right. That's all right. Yeah. But a lot of people when they're the. We. You Chef on TV or in a magazine that like yeah I WanNa do that as well. It sounds great again, the kitchen too many I was minor conduit. Yeah. I can understand that we're going to reduce I was down we it is what it is. But when you then do it for a long period of time, it's a way of life you know being in the army thing you go to war every service, but you know you're having a great time with great people that you're that you trust around you. Soon as you got the army, you're lost June as you work seven days a week or five days still massive hours with his people and leave or you lost lockdown prime examples looked down you know a lot of the chefs. So sorry for that, and that's why I created the Char East off as well as they can come back in and help out house they feel broken. If you'll loss they feel sad they feel depressed being in the place of work where you surrounded by beautiful people that care about you as a person as well as pushing you to do great things. You don't you know all you're feeling inside of your heart becomes positive rather than on your own buoyed negative overthinking. Sad. Yeah That kitchen kosher, the the the the the lots of hours could always say you can work a lot of hours in the kitchen and you can love it and you can love the vibe and you can. You can love the sector and you've got to look at how much you're learning when you're in that but seems to have been this change in the last few years of. People being may be. Expecting more will maybe less from their work and a multi often and one in restricted hours fulfils difficult to strike that balance because in many ways, you want people to have a good family life and have kids and have some time off. But the other way as you do want really impassioned people who absolutely love it and understand I'm some of the compromises you make if you wanna be top level in the kitchen, do you think that kitchen culture? Changes sort of finished. Do you think it's complicated? What do we do about those sort of conflicting I? Guess. We always say we WANNA work life balance, but realistically is your one team. So what life balance I've tried to implement you know speed as well as. Three days off holidays whacking. But I'm like guys if any of US polling sink or any of us. something. Happens to you or family problem. You've kitchen in shit because we really can't. Over back to five days and five doubles an aunt. With a one person slips up than the other one has to be golden than another one's lips other Golden No fucking done. Five doubles like a normal kitchen light. We've always done I'm fine with it is the new ones coming in on the younger generation of chefs coming into it. I know it sounds really bad like little slave-driver about what life balance it is. What it is is how I was trained is how the direction of especially the Cotton Restaurant Chelsea restaurant is a lot more. Relaxed in a lot more our friendly. But with inside it, the job needs done. We're all gunning for star World Gunning for affection and we all want to much each other. So that's what life balance. You know we're putting all of our life into Jeevan that when it C- cheat than I can imagine some of the Chazal, say you know what I've done I've achieved it now I wanna now WanNa Relax I. Go to the Chelsea restaurant where I know that I'm going to have an extra day. And and the fine with it. If someone requests day because their parents are down or whatever prospect, you can have it all nobody's. And it won't be coming off his holiday. Oh, come off just because you want the time us All of that sort of ones, but we look after the staff a lot more in different ways and much much more different ways that all of us get to all of my restaurants every time menu changes against bring a partner in for free and experiences. You know we we stopped party staff dinner stuff lunches, look up the staff and a lot more different ways. But in covent garden, what life balances is not one of the ways that we do. Something, about you taking your chefs off to Thailand Christmas, menards well that. I recall the chefs while the senior chefs to talent in in January because I'm working on a new project in the needed the help West I just stick the chefs to Tuscany last week. There was fighting was out there doing events out there yet they go over with me, Jamaica, the Cayman Islands Russia all of them places I'm GonNa take the team it's not just the same people going means even it's not just Amit Stephen stays I take the other ones sold paid for them. Yes. So whenever I'm doing advanced Cuba for instance, I took command just because we were learning about cigars Iraq, he wants to go to Cuba I mean took four of them to to give me just to learn about guys for a week. Is Great I. Like the people you work with because when you go away with them, it's just like you're boring shit annoying, but you need to like going with the. Kitchen. Yeah. Did I no don't get the next year is that how they know if they're boring? Shit? We kind of we we trying to be able to go as possible but not. Yeah. Okay. Go I'm not going to listen to this episode because they'll be demanding a trip to Cuba to learn about. So cars which I'd imagine they would absolutely love yet fred play and I think it's a bit lucky Olympic athlete like you say you go star in mind. They've got a particular goal and you just work your ass off and is one Olympics or two Olympics and know. So it might be eight years or whatever that you just were for and then eventually burn out bit arrest. You just feel good that you've achieved it. So yeah, I think you're absolutely right. She just go for these things. I'm one of the other things that I saw you talked on A. Motel in catering earlier in the year and you've been so passionate about for a long time. It's so the sustainability in the ethics of food. Again, you'll typical style, not just a little bit. You know you take it to an extreme with the ugly butterfly what where did this come from? What was the catalyst for your sort of obsession I suppose on on zero waste and being environmentally wearing food and drink. I started out my sister son froggy one in showed it and it was it was because I couldn't. I was struggling to then afford to pay the bills and I was like how the Hell my food costs costed Ho not been able to pay the bloody bows and it was because we debut Sneeze SMO- produces one day I get twenty Metros five left. Then all day is no more Michael. So I get skate wings or whatever because they the best book it's just what do we do with them five than are having a great meal sardines on throws Montas that sort of stuff and it? was like my we have to really start doing that some of these old and you need to eat but you know you're going to have to start eating other stuff I don't we don't have. We didn't have a freezer wasn't about that. So not create being in week in Bishopsgate. So it was I five minutes from from shortage and it was about coffee and bread. So everything that foodwise was injust. So south macro duck parfait using the awful. You know ducks and that sorta stuff knows in those of jars of things that the bearings that weren't quite right. We made into jam the apples that. Would make into chuck me. So be like apple tweeting Chutney sauce stuff, and we would just finding ways where we can fundamentally make money from food waste to pay bills to stay afloat. and. Then after we done that, we created than the address on being covered gotten and it was it was mental. They didn't have any situates very much toll in that restaurant because it was their restrict had a barroom denise. So the food waste will be signed to alcohols the lab. So we would make shrubs would make infusions who would make that sort of stuff on the snacks with represent is well, no. Making a coquette was the the trimmings affiliate that will just minutes down making to abolish as intended into coquette thought so way. And then when I opened Folkston it was on just off the old story we created another been in week where we wanted to do arrest on a small one. So seven. So eight to three We would. We would do that and we would do actual propositions rather than things jaws. And it became really exciting to produce prodigious and it was when it's gone it's gone. So if we did have tuition and then they they did like Beautiful Salad Bowl that we have from the following day Sultanova. then. It's Macho. Ragu that was made using older tomato scraps at Cook Down Melo's about Samican. Then a beautiful bet barbecue glow of the top of it. So the leftover mattress, that's bloody stunning and delicious plastic for lunch for Brunch style. And it went really well Right? There was teamed up with Beer. So it was like two, hundred, twenty, two, hundred, Fifty Beers on the menu there was like a library and it was stunning and when I opened. Adamantly Chelsea in Belmont. That's when things became a little bit light while this too much waste in this joint too much wastes not because we were callous not because you didn't cat but because we had to cater for a hotel such a stunning reputation if someone's paying these thousands for a bedroom wants to have a lobster in the morning they gotta loves us in the morning you know we had to we had to adapt into a way where we've never had to before and it was all about making the best hospitality a hotel. That we can do a challenge for us because we've never done it before but a rewarding one at the end of the day was it was great to be partnered with them. So then I was speaking to the Cadogan estate, the owners of the building at. We love your being a week concept. Would you bring one to? Chelsea, like, yeah, let's do it. Let's do I don't think it will walk in this neck of the woods because everyone's very wealthy and. One but yeah, I'd love to and they teamed up with them again to create the butterfly using all the food waste of the hotel as a trucker restaurant and my God was it magical than people in this area, which I thought would wouldn't work. Loved it was always busy. It was super affordable and it was A. Rating things is the thing that's exciting about being chef. So creating concept where it's like, you look at everything, we've only got see through bags in the kitchen only Caesar's we can see exactly what goes into been always you don't take anything out, but the following day will never put it back in it will never been again but been able to say like. Discounts get made fresh afternoon tea but there's always leftover skunks. What can we do with it cut them in half, cover them in Butts, arrows them in the oven and do a huge cornell of Dukla Pasta made with the ducks that are in the that we have on the menu things like that. It's just like super bloody tasty that you can create the classrooms that we make the Baker's twenty four hours. We then them in half cover them in control. As instead of like a nicer catch coming closer or a nice piece of bread, you got these sweet questions. The salty called is just bloody delicious and just utilizing things like that making making records or shepherd's pies with all the trimmings from the cows that we have admin down coupon So stunning with whipped bone marrow from the balloons that we get from the same cows you know little things like that was was great making pasta using using things that would normally go in the ben but yet make lovely stunning stunning dishes with them. Such. Great. Something is the thing where I love ensued as the team and when I made ugly butterfly, it was it was a whole other ball game you had to think extra but in terms of sustainability the group, how'd you become sustainable delays? The whole vegetable to utilize the whole the whole animal do you do responsible so saying yes, sure. But that's not how you become sustainable. How you've come sustainable is you teach if you do not teach, you do not know puffing example is everyone would been cauliflower leaves or Broccoli stokes because their parents had my mom had I'd always been missile then you know. Utilizing stuff that you've always throwing away, but you've always had it you you've always done it. So that's how it should be done. So creating things like a Caesar, Salad made with Bradley Salts where you've been these sites on a mandolin instead of using cost lettuce and then you make he's addressing and all that sort of stuff in the crunch the water content is delicious utilizing things that you would always throw away in a more methodical smart away but only doing it because you get toilets. So in Butterfly Enough Jeff Zone have students because a chef would come in with a with a mind does I've always done it like this. So I'm continuing. sponges what ones that really care about sustainability anew, eating off the land for eating everything am seeing that little that will cause working, and then they then come to the door on board with you to you and say, well, how you've done this we can do this. We can do that you know growing mushrooms and all the ground coffee. So yeah, you you have like a pillow case finished with the coffee hung in the wine cellar Nova Sunny mushrooms growing. But you plan to dispose you moshing growing on it. Okay. Prospect you mushrooms on yesterday's breads sold the bread. That's see made cut in half olive oil in the oven rubbing garlic roasted below the mushrooms that you've just grown with the coffee not things like that. So all of the packaging that we have in our group and everything from Amos recycled or by fighting way to it's is all that sort of stuff and it's just thinking about the bigger picture. You have to care about. You do you make it so much more exciting than a lot of people I suppose it just go and little bow on on the side we should probably give a shit about the environment. So at that all sounds phenomenal and I can see it as a release of your creativity. You think we have an obligation as a sector. Henry Dimbleby came out this week with a sort of look into the food supply chain and and and it's been sort of set to agriculture's probably one of the top three biggest impacts on the environment. Also people change into sort of you know either flex a -tarian more plant-based. Impact of what we? Were among wearing food and drink, and we probably understand the supply chain and we understand food better than anybody else. Do you think the waste of have a moral obligation to educate and help teach people about where food comes from what you think we should just sell what the customer wants to buy. No one hundred percent we have an obligation to do it know the ones that the ones that control sued weights in the ones that control mice spying are hostile hospitality industry. So thing where I always say was the sex assigned Vegetarian Vegan like just mentioned I always say I hate that stuff. I think it's a load of bollocks and I'll tell you why might humble opinion says that? The Meat Industry produces twelve to fifteen percent greenhouse gases the cattle industry more than any transport industry. So more than planes magma, it's it's the cattle market the old older they're they're fox is hilarious. Not Much Sir greenhouse gases. So don't cut down on meat start to eat meat sensibly. So I say that that retire dairy cows we Matai. Dairy cows usually between seven eight years in the dairy industry hooked up to machines and totally destroyed and having a horrible life. Then after that, they just get put into gave him the dog food chipped away for shipmate in foreign countries. We don't utilize that meet. You don't need to stop in meet you need to. Start Eating Betta meets so you can slow down the meat consumption for your own personal health, but eight eat better. So I work with people that Brian retired their cows, and then they let them roam around for a year or two to actually start to enjoy life and be happy than the becomes more Casey and we realize laughed. So instead of having to go to mass-produce Kettles arms where are pumping them out when there are five, hundred, fifty kilos. We've got these much bigger beasts like you know, nine, nine, hundred, two plus Hilo animals. Are tasty Philip Marble because the monkeys and they're absolutely delicious. So it's not about just needed to cut down eating beef. You gotta cut down Eaten Mass Produced Shit if stock change it to be in meat that would normally go throwing away in the Ben. So it's the sustainability approach zero waste. That's the thing I liked to do why changed all my own meeting Chelsea is retired dairy cows I put on the menu dairy cows no one eight it. I just took the word retired dairy cows off of the base everyone eats it but they enjoy its bags of flavor. Stunning. Stunning. Stunning meet in terms of value costume. It is amazing is affordable because it would normally go in the bloody been and they're much larger cuts of meat as well. So is far bigger phillies far bigger shadowing is if you know that sort one seat is really nice big. Cuts. That sort of thing that people need to think. Again it's all about teaching ignorance is bliss. So everyone's saying you know the meat market and got to cut down on eating it. I would say, yeah cut down on the backs stay in the stuff that would only get thrown away and then cutting down on that automatically happens automatically happens because you're no longer buying mass-produced. Sushi. So the mass-produced like McDonald's style of stuff and you're you're eating stuff that is. That is going to be thrown away is a beautiful piece of meat coveted marveling. It's delicious. That's where people's minds should start to think. And in Europe the the ex dairy council super popular. I remember when I looked into this before and you might know the answer on this might be a little bit too detail but. Post BSE. There was this sort of regulation. The all cows had to be in less than three years old I think enormous about two and a half years in the industry, and therefore they weren't allowed to sell dairy into the meat industry because of potential. But I take it that regulations changed now did you did that come up when doing research? I didn't I didn't know that they weren't allowed to be more than three years old. It definitely definitely has changed and. Now we can. Okay I'm the the other thing that comes up a law is is to be saying the government of talking about putting calories on. Now every menu dished to challenge obesity. What's your thoughts on that? I think is low rubbish I. Really hope that doesn't come into because people go out to. Restaurants like mine foreign experience. You don't go out laugher site solid into to be made to feel like a modern bad suit. So that I think will cripple the more formal dining market. I think it's a shame. I think we end up going trajectory where all food almost has to. Produced in a factory because that's the only place you can get accurate calorific amazing because you were talking about. Then you know if you all of a sudden chocolate in a little bit cauliflower store call or tweak in addition proper chefs in a for me, it should be about real food shit processed food and everybody should be encouraged to real food and if you're eating real food in your royal chef, you can tweak the recipe, tweak the dish almost every time depending on flavor and having to hand over to nutritionist analysis would would probably kill the creative food sector and we ended up going we give up and put everything in about against his pie rapper. No one hundred percent, and then you'll find that a lot of chefs they the calorie count to them dishes will be incorrect because they are very much a okay. This workless add a little bit more butter or less change this to this, and it just will not be accurate. So it'd be a complete waste of time complete waste of money and it will just be. You a diner who's coming in to have a tasting menu. That's eighteen closest realize. Well, that's not too like four thousand calories. You don't do it every day. So special occasion. Yeah. So have you ever have you given any head space because you've got enough crap on your plate and you're thinking about enough stuff but we'll what do we do about the I suppose particularly sort of childhood obesity an is around education again, if you give any thoughts. Yeah Education Education massively. So a doctor's go a phenomenal program getting kids to understand one numbers in an English and science between making things such as Grad or salads, or vegetables, and stuff like that education. A young age gets people inspired and I don't really think it'd BCC should happen. As a kid because vegetables are the most colorful things ever an kids love color. So when when you just when you get when you start to educate Parents as well as children in two different colors and different textures different flavors you'll tend to eat more but I personally think if they want to Caroline Calorie Count Restaurant Menus, they should bloody band processed food in general. That's the one that does you damage processed food makes you fat eating butter with a piece of beef doesn't because it's natural is processed food. That makes you makes you feel sluggish makes your your you know your mental state and your mind is quick progression and an on the bow. Up. Am I right in saying that your mom was a bit of a trailblazer of this and when you were Kate, she had a natural aversion to any kind of processed food and used to make everything fresh even then is that right? One hundred percent proper housewife she wasn't wasn't a chef proper housewife and he can't about what went in the kids buddies plus I had orange like sugar and. Dairy when I was younger when I was a little boy not anymore nfl she didn't trust anything that shops you don't. You don't always smell bread and you'd always smell like cakes and it always smell roasts or whatever, and it was just delicious and everything was not. You know there was no process I never had a hot dog I never had a McDonald's my mom was really quite strict wasn't allowed to do any of that stuff. When I went to my grandparents, senator but it's just that. Yes, you. What goes into your kids buddy is very, very important. What is what does your mom feel about your love of Kentucky Chicken? Yeah, she hates that just like how? Thing ever. I love we will. We will. Okay. Cool. Moving onto to the future really obits a one of one of the other things that was a trend in this. This podcast tend to trend in hospitality basically before covid happened was they sort of? Change. I suppose this venture capitalist investment in hospitality and for me something in some ways was ripping the solar hospitalizations. All of a sudden. We started to get these roll outs of these casual dining brands, national brands, and a little bit formula can a little bit Beijing and I just wonder what your opinion is as we go forward, clearly, hospital is not gonNa go through a real struggle. Do you think that it's Going to be the casual dining sector by which I mean the sort of you know the the well backed brands the savant if they get through it or do you think they're going to take a hit and actually it's going to create some space in the market to go back to more of the independent neighborhood restaurants. If you have you given any thought to yet who comes out the other side of this. Yeah I think the cups will investment restaurants are the ones that are gonna get hit the most. Because they're not restaurant, does that business people that look at balance sheets and forecasting look at pianos, and then they're the ones that forecasting losses that photo just their loss, and they will move their investments to them because they've lost their investments but other new investments into other markets not being the hospitality one. So I feel like this virus is being like a coming session hospitality and it's getting rid of the Solis restrooms. Sadly, there's some phenomenal restaurants like one of my favorite for instance hasn't made it but. You know that's not unfortunate and I really feel for I. Feel for everyone who lost the restaurant in this or any business for that matter but I feel going forward the consumers want to eat in a restaurant with personality individuality a, and I think chained restaurants where it's copy and paste with no real soul justify just pappas is. Pretty much on the downward slide to elapse. I think it's. A good and bad thing for the hospitality industry to make sure that Britain stays the top of its game in terms of is. And what it's producing bad on one hand that that's people's money that they've lost jobs that lost as well. But you know it's the nature of the beast regardless. If you're restaurant whether to phenomenal of lost all your just a rollout chain of soulless food is unfortunate to lose something. Needs to happen. There are too many restaurants in London. I know that I'm saying London because I knew that market for more than anywhere else. I and and sadly needs it needs this I lost four of it. So you I can't speak it they I needed from his wellstone and make my group better. Now, you're I I think and I hope I hope it's a share, your concerns that you know everybody's called livelihoods and and it's a real shame for individual people. But yeah, I do I why this is called the humans of hospitality brands of hospitality I was getting fed up with these sort of formulate rollouts, affecting sector that I feel so passionately about which has some incredibly. Creative and energized human beings behind and it was a shame to see it disappearing for the sake of a sort of a a board of directors in London. We didn't really understand hospitality while some sites is I really do hope that it's a little bit of a reset. You've mentioned earlier about the benefit of having outside tables and great. For Aug, again, you sort of predictions for the future you know going into winter all of a sudden account use the terraces submerged. What's your thoughts on on sort of how many restaurants I? to mystic about hospitality in the medium to long term at least what sort of timeframe you're working on us to win restaurants can get back to profitability. The end of September when when we'll see that law restaurants haven't made it and I think probably twenty percent I'm I'm saying twenty percent of hospitals. In this country would have collapsed, which is a ridiculous amount. and I'm saying that by September because now all the throws are now changing the winding-up scheme. So a company can demand demand their bills to be paid. can submit to the courts for your restaurant to be bankrupt is is now as I I opened up and not right there is gonNA is GonNa make a lot of restaurants close and it's going to push them in that direction. So I think. That's what we're going to see the big ones but we're also gonNA see a lot more restaurants come on the market, and the way that landlords need to need to adapt is instead of having big big rents and big deposits they're having percent use of turnovers they're having In vestments from them. So therefore, they're saying. We'll do you a landlord contribution of deseo hundred or two, hundred, thousand pounds. But we went by the equipments than when you leave couldn't stays here. You know that's the cutler investment of the people of the of the buildings I think is going to go. So we we took proposals for another couple more restaurants based on that and we've seen a good a good uptake from landlords to say, well, yeah we're actually going to be changing of our new portfolios to that to that route because we need these places filled. So it's new now if you want to open a restaurant. Someone that's really gasping to have their own one. Now is the time to team up with someone who knows how to open restaurants curry a stunning business plan create a an idea menu concept and everything, and then fine Lemnos because they will then take percentage of rent centuries of tunnel. Sorry for rent rather than having to up front in you half a million pounds a million in a restaurant now you in yourself and maybe a hundred or two, hundred thousand and you get them to pay the rest so I think in that perspective. More, people being able to get their own restaurants which is phenomenal to see. And I'm thinking. After December after December. So the last quarter of this month January this year I. Think I think a lot more restaurants will be them pumping into profit. The first quarter of next year I think should be all good ready for marches. Rents rateable value to get put into place and the VAT to go back up next year as well. So we need to save as much money over the next nine months as possible before these VAT start to go back up. I love the fact that despite the today is an and the loss of your restaurants and clearly the kind of. Emotional. Three or four months that you've had the fundamentally still pumped and thinking now's the perfect time for somebody to open a restaurant. So yeah, you mental but but. Yeah I've been told that up until. You have to. Situation of abide Christ you have to really try and make as possible as possible be as positive as possible for your own sanity not just the people around you for your own sanity and I i. think the future is good as you want to make it. So you believe in yourself when you really think I could do something I can. Fulfil my dreams. Do it don't have the cold ruining your future? That's why like doing these podcasts because this, this sector is full of equally bonkers and creative people Adam. Do you think you would Would you consider opening somewhere out with London? I would I would probably not for another year or so because I need to make sure that microbes fully stable before I sought to branch out great another one in London, but I can still go to every day. But yeah, of course, I would love to put one in Scotland. My. Home Country I think that'd be absolutely phenomenal. But my grip needs to be far more stable than what it currently is to build to do. With what you've now been through, do you think this will have a long-term impact on? How you grow the business because you grow in a significant rate of knots before, do you think you're going to be more inclined to keep you know maybe a little bit more of a cash cushion in the business than the new before? Will you? You'll go as hard as you always did. Not, know I am learning from my own mistakes. I've made a lot of mistakes on the roads, but she lost the first time of a restaurant grips are about about it's obvious wilder. So yeah. The one thing I have noticed that I messed up the most is not having protection not having not having a Butler cash somewhere so that if something did happen, we were there. We were living every month month by months in the restaurant grits. So one bad month you screwed. So yeah contingency plans and You Know Heyman contingency plans that the two that the to tweet meetings Don't open another restaurant until I can physically afford to have one fail. Okay could've I. If you know Adam handling as these now went back and spoke to Adam handling five years ago. Is there a key nugget of advice you would give yourself back then knowing what you've been through? One hundred percent but I know me back then will just tell me fuck. Out. So I think I think you're absolutely right. I'm conscious of time and you're exceptionally busy schedule but really. I love watching your adventures in south senior talk and I just I hats off to the amount of energy. In the Matt drive on I don't think you can teach people to be a driven sort of inspirational entrepreneur. I can see why you achieve so much. So Young, if people WANNA follow your adventures and your restaurants, is there a particular sort of social media channel a website where people go to follow you out them? Yet check me out about all social media as instagram at handling Is there a and Yeah. Check me out there you see. The timeline of me doing stupid shit everyday. But yet my story line is a little more professional all my restaurants in everything's. Okay perfect. Well, I'll put some links up in the show notes that go with this episode as well on the website so. Just once again, thanks thanks to the time I'm glad we managed to reschedule so quickly and have enjoyed chatty. Thanks good luck in the future. Thank you. Thank you for life. So they have anybody else exhausted having listen to Adams crazy journey as I said, he is a busy man but hats off to achieved. So why not go and help Adam out maybe order one of his name dishes for delivery to your house and make some of Adam handlings food. Had to the website humans of hospitality CODA UK, and over put some links to the social media to his website on there as we discussed and If you can go back to the beginning, LISTEN TO WHY said they're leaving review for the PUCK? Really really helped me out and I get better guess for you to listen to. The winner okay. I'll be back in a week with another guest jess.