2 Episode results for "Hellfire Pass"
AT#727 - Travel to Kanchanaburi, Thailand
"Bags back on the road. And read it's. Real. Fast Board. Amateur Traveler episode seven, hundred and twenty-seven today the amateur traveler talks about railroads and World War Two history waterfalls and Temples Pad Thai, and the bridge on the river Kwai sort of. As we go to contradictory Thailand. Welcome. To the amateur traveler I'm your host Chris Christensen. Let's talk about Thailand. I'd like to welcome to the show Michael Derosier 's from the ear goggles podcast who come to talk to us about a region in Thailand we have not talked about before and I'm going to try and say it, and then we'll help Michael pronounce it correctly, and that is contrary Michael Welcome to the show. That's perfect. Contradictory I did it okay. Okay. Excellent. Thank you so much I'm glad to be. Here and Michael's a longtime listener of the show and Michael you live now in Thailand. Yeah. That's right. I'm an American ex PAT I've been living in Bangkok since two thousand thirteen like a lot of people I came here on a one year teaching contract I fell in love with the city and I've always loved traveling and and now it's just sort of home seven years later it just feels like home. Will and why this particular region that you picked out why should we be talking about contradictory? There's a lot of reasons that people come to. Thailand. We'll come to Thailand for Bangkok or to go to the beaches and the south people come to Thailand to go to temples or to eat the food. But cutting Aubrey has some things that people don't necessarily think of when they think of Thailand at World War Two history that's a lot of our trekking and hiking that normally, you wouldn't be able to do as a tourist here. And as a matter of fact, I was doing research for this and I found that the provincial slogan of country really sums up the reasons that people should go here. It's quite a mouthful coming from the United States we have slogans like the Golden State or the lone star state, right but the slogan for Kanchanaburi Province is I'm going to just read the English. Translation. A province of ancient community three pagodas pass precious Stones River, bridge minerals, and waterfall resources and I think that just sums it up. Perfectly. Excellent and could you put it on a map for us? Absolutely, it is a little bit north west of Bangkok. It borders me and mar it's the largest province in the western region. So if you're looking at a map of Thailand and you're looking at the western region, of Thailand, you'll see it definitely the biggest it's much bigger than a lot of the other provinces in the area. Excellent will what kind of Tannery are you going to recommend for us when people go to catch and Aubrey there's really three categories of things to do and see, and so I really recommend grouping your itinerary around these three topics. The first one is World War Two history. The second one is nature in the third one is history and culture or ancient history and culture. Okay and. For me I'm a big history. So for me, the reason that I went there originally was to experience the World War Two history. And that's probably what the the province in the town itself catcher number town itself is best known for. So Catching Aubrey is probably the best known in the West as location of the bridge on the River Kwai. The famous but and film starring. Eunice. and. It was the site where sixteen thousand allied POW's and about ninety thousand Asian laborers died trying to build the railway all the way from Singapore to Myanmar during the Second World War. And it's a really powerful sight of his and there's a lot of historical places. There's Hellfire Pass. There's one Poe viaduct. There's the allied war cemetery, all of which are related to this historical moment in time. Will and you said that one triple I might have with their FAI getting a cab and I say take me to the bridge on the River Kwai. I may be confusing. My cabdriver. That's right. Why is that? Absolutely because even though the movie is world famous as the River Kwai that's actually not how it's pronounced in the thai-language in tie it's actually river quay I don't know why they spelled k. w. Ai i. think it should be written. K. W. H. E.. So as not to confuse people but in tie the word quiet means buffalo and so if you ask a driver to take you to the choir, the river, Kwai they're going to be yeah, definitely confused. You're not going to go where you think you are will. So if I go there now as I recall the end of the movie, they blew up the bridge but there is a bridge they're still right there is a bridge it was rebuilt the bridge in the movie was made of wood the rebuilt bridge is metal. Parts of it are original from the reconstruction back during the Second World War, but parts of it have been rebuilt since then. And the reason that it's been rebuilt is because it's actually still an active part of the Thai railway system. So getting to catch and Aubrey from Bangkok there's a lot of ways that you can get there. But in my opinion, the best way to go is to actually take the train along the Burmese death away from Bangkok to catch, and it goes right to the bridge will, and we should say that when you talk about it as the death railway, that is because of the number of the laborers and the prisoners of war who died building it not because that will be your experience necessarily on the trail. Not. If not the most comfortable train, but you'll certainly survive. Got It. And we can take that right from Bangkok. The main rail station in Bangkok is Elim punk station. You cannot get from there. You have to cross the river to a station called Bangkok noy station. And it's quite easy to get to. You can just tell any driver of Bangkok noy. They'll know exactly where to take you and the train ride takes about three or four hours depending on how many stops they make I believe it's only third class so it's not going to be the most comfortable trip, but it only costs the equivalent of three US dollars and you get to be on this historical railway and you get to see some beautiful scenery out the windows as you're going through the countryside. In. My opinion it's definitely worth doing. Do you say third class and we need a little bit of clarification there 'cause I think of the trains that I have taken in Asia First Class you had a private compartments second-class it was open, but you might have a space but. What is third class third class. I'm not hanging on the outside, right? Absolutely not no third class. You're not going to have an assigned seat over sell the tickets, but you won't have an assigned seat. It'll be a bench rather than an individual seat to sit in. The open there's usually not air condition, but it's more fun because there's going to be people walking up and down selling snacks and drinks. There's going to be people sticking their hands in the window trying to sell you mangoes and bananas as you're driving along and it's it's a lot more fun. I think to ride that way at least for a short distance you know for three hours it's okay. I wouldn't go across the country that way but for. A day trip three or four hour journey. It's great. Okay. So we get to the end of the line on the death railway successfully, and then what are we gonNA do? Well when you arrive at the Kanchanaburi Railway Station, you're right in front of the allied war cemetery in town and I really think that's probably the best place to start. You can walk through the cemetery and it's really well-maintained. It's actually maintained by the Commonwealth Work Raves Commission. And the soldiers interred there are mostly Dutch or Commonwealth citizens of the American POW's were are their remains were repatriated back to the US so you won't see many Americans, but there's a lot of commonwealth citizens buried there and it's it's kept up incredibly well, and just outside of that, there is the Thailand Burma Railway Center, which is a private museum that's dedicated to sharing the history of the railway in the history of the Second World War in country, and it's probably the best museum on the subject there several museums in the area This one is in my opinion the best one it's very informative. They've got a lot of great artifacts that have been donated by the. Survivors or by their families and I would absolutely recommend starting there. Okay from there. I would say go to the bridge, go to the bridge itself and see that you can walk across it. Be careful because the trains run on it, but people tend to know when the train is coming in and get other way in plenty of time. But yeah, you're allowed to walk across it. So if you've read the books or if you've seen the movies about this event, it'll feel very real when you walk across the bridge and if you're into history and if you know a lot about history or even if you're not I, think it's a really powerful moving experience to visit it. Further on well, okay I do want to back up for a second because there is a question that you asked and you would ask me what the guidebooks recommend that I would skip and I do WanNa talk about that because it is related to this part of the town. Okay. So when you're going to the bridge, there's also another war museum called the GP Newseum J. E. A. T. H. I believe it stands for Japan England. Australia Thailand. Holland Museum okay. It's officially a war museum and there's a lot of write ups about in guidebooks and the guidebooks recommended I. Don't know if I would necessarily recommend this museum is just it's it's kind of badly organized. It's really just a collection of of stuff from one thousand, nine, hundred there's this is a typewriter from nineteen, thirty six and you're like, well, that's great. But that has nothing to do with the bridge on the River Kwai, and there's a statue of Winston Churchill in a statue of hero he toe and it's just a very kind of odd museum. It's just a collection of stuff. And if you want to do it, it's fine is probably a dollar fifty to visit and they do have some some real artifacts. They have a real train engine to have some military planes and helicopters. But if you're on a time crunch I would recommend skipping. It is really just not not worth the time necessarily to visit. But while you're on the track of visiting the Second World War, sites I I, really can't stress enough. To Visit Hellfire Pass. which is out of town, you will need to get a driver or take a motorbike to get there. It's out of town about an hour and a half I guess the Hellfire Pass was the most dangerous part of of the railway construction where the the POW's had to chisel out a path through a mountain essentially and it was called Hellfire pass because just how awful it was working there they were working eighteen hour days. And Hellfire pass also has a very good museum that is maintained by Australia by the Australian government. And when you're there, you can actually walk through the the past they've carved out, and there's an audio tour that you can get from the visitor center that is made up of a collection of interviews by the survivors. and. It's incredibly moving. It is such a powerful experience and I can't recommend that enough. So it's worth the day trip to get out there. Okay. Sounds wonderful. That's what I would recommend for the Second World War. If you're interested in that history, the more modern history if you're interested in nature Canton Aubrey is also a great place to go, which is another reason that I'm a huge fan of it living in a city like Bangkok always happy when I can get away from the ten million people and just look at something green for a little. And I love catching Aubrey because of that, it's in the jungle. It has a fairly small population. It's a fairly remote and rural province. And it's home to six different national. Parks. ooh. So if you're into hiking if you're into tricking or camping, even it's great I love camping out there I love trekking if you want to go to the national parks and you can only go to one. I would recommend Erawan National Park. E. R.. A.. W. A. N. it's named after Erawan who's a three headed elephant from? Hindu mythology. And it's one of my favorite places in the whole country. It's got this seven tiered waterfall right at the visitor center and you can trek up to each level. It takes o two or three hours is not incredibly strenuous. but it's beautiful. It's absolutely beautiful and it each level you can stop in there's like a pool where the waterfall has formed natural pool and you can go swimming in it and you can also camp there you can contact the visitor center and hire a guide and go trekking through the jungle. So if you're really interested in experiencing the tide jungle, it's perfect Erawan National Park is the place to go. And if you're not brave enough to hire your own motorbike and you don't WanNa, spend the money for a private driver. There's actually a bus that goes from Kantian Aubrey town itself directly to Erawan National Park. So it's really easy to get to and when you say spend the money to hire a private driver how expensive is going to be in Thailand It's not that expensive. Especially, if you're coming on vacation and you have the money to spend even as a backpacker, it's not that expensive. I would say a driver for a day is going to cost you forty or fifty US dollars. Okay. So. That's the driver and the car correct. Yeah. Yeah. Excellent. But honestly, the traffic is not bad and if you're brave enough most hotels and guest houses will have motorbikes, you can use four free and honestly it's the best way to get around. I'm not that brave I would never write a motorbike in. Bangkok. But out in country Aubrey, it's fine. It's really not it's not scary so. If. You're brave enough. If you have motorbike insurance I would recommend getting around that way because that way you have the freedom to go where you want to go because some of the sites are a bit spread out and if you don't want to spend the money on a driver and if you want to control your own schedule, it's more fun to go on your own via motorbike. Okay. We're to next the third category of things that you might want to see in country is ancient history. And Culture Aubrey has a historical park called Moung Sing? And it's a Kamerhe style ruin. It's very different from. The ancient capital which I believe that you've covered in previous show a long time ago how UTA is tie style ruin but moung sing it's Kamerhe. It's actually one of the westernmost outposts from the Khmer Empire dates back to the thirteenth and fourteenth century around there. It was actually constructed under the reign of King. Jaya Varman the seventh I'm not sure if I'm pronouncing his name, right but he is the king who ordered the construction of anchor Tom in the bay on temples in Anchor Watt historical. Park in Cambodia. So it's kind of a miniature version of Angkor Watt and if you're interested in that kind of history and that architecture, it's really cool place to go. It's small it's about. I would say to collection of two temples and sort of an old fortress. But it's very informative and the cool thing about it. For a visitor is that you're allowed to climb on the ruins and it's probably not good for preserving the ruins. It's not great for protecting this history, but walking on the ruins and touching the stones and kind of standing were ancient people stood it makes it feel very real and that's definitely the trade off I would say the trade the trade off of. Allowing. You to enter the ruins and explore them on your own is that maybe it doesn't preserve them very well. But on the other hand, you do get to get a more up close and personal experience with the ruins, which is also very cool. Well, any when you say you were talking about time period when the king who are now trying to say. Jar Varman. The the seventh it live from like. Eighty two twelve nineteenth. So we're talking. About eight hundred years ago or so these go back. It's kind of rare. You don't see that many Kamerhe style ruins in Thailand, especially this far west. At this point, we are very close to the Myanmar border, and so this is one of the very, very furthest outposts of this empire, which is what makes it kind of rare in the region and really interesting to see excellent while you're at mowing sing definitely stopped by Wong viaduct it's really close. It's just a few minutes away. One Poe viaduct is a trestle bridge. It's also part of the death railway. It's a trestle bridge that goes over the river along the cliff face. And again to walk on it, which is kind of scary because there's no railings or anything, but just just keep your footing I guess. But what's interesting about the one paw viaduct is that there's also a cave right there and the cave was used as a store for the Japanese army and it was also POW field hospital. And it's been turned into a Buddhist shrine. So there's a big Buddha statue in there in lots of people will go there to pray to light incense to make merit. And It's just a beautiful part of the country and it looks over some of the prettiest scenery on the river. Kwai it's very, very close to moving sing. So while you're in the region, just stop by there just make may trip of both of them because you don't WanNa miss either one. And you see to make merit and I think your knowledge of Buddhism is a little better than sorry. Yeah. Right so making merit is basically giving an offering in the name of somebody. In this case, it would be in the name of the people who died in the construction of the railway and that would come in the form of maybe lighting incense saying prayers and donating flowers or maybe donating money. Basically, it is doing an act that gives good Karma to somebody who has died. Okay. Thank you that. I was not familiar with that term and so because a lot of people died there it, it's a very popular place that people will go to pray for the dead But yeah, definitely it's beautiful. It's a little bit scary to walk across though I will say that. It's not like it's not super high. It's probably ten fifteen feet, but it's still scary to walk across the bridge. But again, if you're brave enough go for it otherwise, you can still get some really cool pictures. It. So those are the things that I would definitely recommend as the do not miss. But there are some other things that I would also recommend if you have the time. and. One of the most most highly recommended one of the extra activities is visiting the nature? Park I think an incumbent operates a branch of the elephant nature. Park. That's called the elephant haven I'm always hesitant to recommend anything with animals especially anything where the animals are used for tourism. And a lot of times I think people come to Thailand and they they WANNA see elephants. So they want to see monkeys and they don't realize that there may be feeding into unethical organization or an unethical industry, and so a few years ago my mother wanted to visit Thailand and she she loves elephants. She really wanted to see some elephants and I did a lot of research to try to find an organization that was ethical. And Elephant Nature Park is very good. They're very, very good. They do not allow you to ride the elephants. They take really good care of them. A lot of the elephants at the Nature Park are rescued from the tourist industry or they're rescued from the logging industry. And they're basically able to retire and live out their lives in this large natural area just doing elephant things basically, and so you volunteer with them or if you go overnight to stay with them, you don't get to ride the elephants get to bathe them. You get to play with them. You've got to feed them, but really the elephants are kind of in charge just going where they want to go and doing what? They want to do and you just kind of get to tag along with them and hang out with them in their natural habitat. This organization is very good because they do fight against the exploitative practices that some of the industry does I recommend elephant haven at the Elephant Nature Park, and when you go overnight, you could to stay in a bungalow you stay in the elephant camp itself, which is a really cool experience. And you talk about the elephant experience there and I think I've talked about it once before on the show but I know that there are no pictures about it in amateur traveler on purpose. But when I was there for a tourism board event with teabags travel blogging conference, they had told the tours and people they specifically didn't wanted to go to some of the other non ethical kind of elephants shows which are. Where you could see the elephants outside a chained and these really short chains or where the people who were making the elephants go through these tricks have. Very, point Hook that clearly the elephant was trained with in a comfortable manner. But at one point, we had extra time in the schedule and somebody had missed a memo and took us to one of these shows and I'm sitting there going well, I'm not writing about this I'm not promoting this and it was uncomfortable because I'm aware that writing elephant for instance is not good for an elephant and all of those sorts of things. So yeah. Right well. And don't have any. No, they just don't know. Anytime an elephant now forming or anytime an elephant is being used to give rides. That's exactly the truth that Hook, and the chair sits on the elephants back is really really bad for their back and Colorado a lot of pain and so yeah, people come to Thailand I've had colleagues have come here to work in Thailand, and they're so excited when they see elephants and they see an elephant and they go and they put money in the hat and from the elephant and the elephant does a dance and it's it's really funny and it's cute but you just can't support that right and that's Why organizations like this one like the elephant nature park are really important because they do rescue these elephants that are in that situation and they bring them to this I guess sort of a rehabilitation camp where they can retire safely and they can just about the rest of their lives in a more natural way, and so they don't allow anyone to ride the elephants. They just get live elephant lives, which is I. Think Super Important. Yeah and I wasn't aware of this. I was the the famous went up in Chiang Mai that's similar. This one is a branch of that one elephant nature park is. In the elephant haven. But they're the same organization. But Yeah, you can understand why people are drawn to Elvis. -nificant animal. Really they're so smart. They're hilarious Wa. Oh yeah, and it's the national animal of Thailand. So of course, they're used in promoting tourism here and you'll see them all over the place. So. If you if you do have the time definitely volunteer overnight, it costs a bit of money not not a lot. Maybe a hundred dollars one, hundred, fifty dollars not really sure but it's not incredibly expensive but the money goes to help take care of the elephants and you get to Baid them. You get to the kind of swim with them. And just play with them and they're very playful. They're very playful and very sweet. Sometimes, if you're lucky, they might have a baby and there's nothing funnier than like a three hundred pound baby elephant they're very clumsy and they they're very pushy and they just WanNa play in. It's really really cute excellent. So those are really my my recommendations of things to do. But when you're there, there's a lot more than just that. So those are the top sites. I would say that you should not miss other than that. There are other things to do in town while you're there that will take up a lot more time for example, going to the night market or the walking street in Kanchanaburi town. When you're there, there's not much food that's unique to Kanchanaburi because catch Aubrey is still in the central region of Thailand. Thailand has four distinct cultural regions and catch knobkerries no central region just like Bangkok. So the food that you'll find is really similar, but they have a lot of great seafood or I Guess River. Food. Because they're on the river. So a lot of really fresh river fish river prawns, another dish that they're famous for is this mushroom soup. Okay. I guess it's made of mushrooms that grow really well, there I'm not. I'm not sure but sort of an herbal mushroom soup that's supposed to be really good for you. Other than that. He had the food in the market is very good. You can get Tom Google which is a spicy soup made of prins. And I guess pad, Thai Thai is not the most authentic dish, but it's still really good at so so good. Well, and the funny thing is we have Thai restaurants in the area I'm in. We have a lot of restaurants in Silicon Valley because there's a lot of people from all over the place more. Passports per capita than any other place. And I was convinced that Pattaya was just something that I didn't like because I went to some of the restaurants here that I, Lake. And try the pad Thai it was bland. And we're just noodles right and if you give me just a big plate of noodles that that doesn't do anything for me and and yet it is my Go-to dish when I'm in Bangkok. Thai. I mean it's definitely not inauthentic is tied. Actually has a really cool history because it was sort of invented in the nineteen thirties when they were trying to unify the country in each region had it unique cuisine and they were trying to create a tie identity and so the prime minister sort of ordered the invention of a dish that would have flavors that could appeal to people all across the country and they came up with Pad Thai and they call it pad Thai's in like Thai Patterns Fried. So Fried Tyou Guess Fried Thai Food and they said this is our national dish now and it's going to be something that's not too spicy not too sweet. It's going to appeal to everybody. So it is tie and it's really good and I'm a huge fan of it and I think that most tourists love it because it is really good. It's not too spicy. Don't have to worry about it being spicy well, I mean we shouldn't be too surprised that a traditional dish in many places doesn't go back as far as we think if you think about if you go to Italy, you're going to expect Pasta Pasta comes from China. So right it. Wasn't what they reading in the twelve hundred they didn't. They didn't have that same sort of invention than, and of course, tomatoes came from the new world. So that's right. Everything you're eating is from elsewhere if you go to did you get potatoes while you're having something you expect, but they also came from the new world and so a lot of places what was traditional dishes has changed over time. So which surprises too much. But I don't eat the food, my parents. or at least eight when I was growing up so that you having been exposed to many other more interesting things than meat and potatoes but yeah. Exactly exactly, and there's a lot of foods like that in Thailand foods that have become Thai food that have evolved from something else my favorite example is American, Fried Rice. Cow Pat, American. Which delillah thousand nine hundred seventy s when a lot of American servicemen were on our in our in Thailand during the Vietnam. And I guess I don't I don't really know how it happened. I guess that they were trying to come up with the dish that these Americans would like and they were thinking what do Americans like they like catch up they like hotdogs and so American Fried Rice is this fried rice dish made of hot dogs and catch up and raisins and has a fried egg on top and it's very odd dish. Oh I I think that it was invented trying to appeal to an American Palette and I just find it hilarious. It's not bad. It's not what you expect, but it's not bad. It's definitely not American it is one hundred percent Thai. Thai could make that into something edible. I know it's really funny. I can't imagine how they came up with it. Well, and Michael. Talks about people going to Thailand for the food. That is definitely one of the places where the food is is so good and is so good not just in Bangkok. But I've been spent some time in the in the hinterlands to in some lesser known areas and a very easy to get good food in Thailand. Yes. Definitely and I would say, don't be afraid of the street food either I've been living here for seven years. I've never gotten sick not once and I don't know why you're in a tropical area it seems like you ought to be but I agree with you that I a place that I am not at all afraid speed food I've certainly gotten sick traveling before I've gotten really sick and other countries but here I've never had any problems. Anything. Else people need to know before they go to this particular region, of Thailand, or Thailand in general well, this particular region of Thailand. One more warning regarding animals that would be important to say is the Tiger Temple I think they've rebranded hikers zoo. You might have heard about this when it made big international news a couple of years ago. It was a Buddhist temple that was famous for having tigers in the monks would walk around with Tiger and people would go and pay money and take pictures with. But there are always accusations suspicions that the Tigers were being drugged mistreated and a few years ago. There was a government raid and they found out that that was definitely true. So they've shut it down it's been reopened as the Tiger Zoo I'm not one hundred percent sure if it's ethical or not I would probably say Aaron the side of caution and skit. Even though it's highly recommended by a lot of people. So avoid the Tiger Temple but don't get confused. There's another temple called Tiger Cave temple, which is just called that it doesn't have any tigers at all and it's a really cool temple. It's got a huge Buddha statue might be the biggest Buddhist statue in the region I'm not a hundred percent sure about that, but it's really tall several stories tall. And if you want to kind of experience a beautiful style, Buddhist temple at Tiger Cave temple is it's not too far out of town is just a few minutes out of town. You can get there on a motorbike or or in a taxi it's good to go to so don't get the two mixed up don't get the Tiger Cave temple or the Tiger temple mixed up because they are different well. That it's that toll because there are those four things you're supposed to remember not to do in Thailand and one of them is don't be taller than the. Buddha. So if it's too straight talk arrest, that's always helpful. To have somebody on the head don't point your feet toward somebody in. Do say anything bad about the king exactly. That's actually very important. Let's Let's definitely reiterate that because that is highly illegal. So I would say just avoid talking about the monarchy in general just of yet because there's nothing good that can come of it. It's very respected institution in Thailand and the laws are are really strict and they do apply to foreigners as well. So as a tourist yeah and just show proper respect and that actually comes down to something. That a lot of people don't think about and that's the money. So right on the street and you're buying on the money yeah you're buying snack and you accidentally drop a coin and it starts to roll away. Do not step on. It goes back to what you were saying about the feet don't put your feet on the face of the king that would be really bad and you'll definitely get some dirty looks if you do that if your money's blowing away, just don't step on it, pick it up with your hand yeah interesting. Now you mentioned there were five. National Parks. If I had a little more time, which is the next National Park, you would add after Erawan. Okay. The second one that you should go to is called Sciatic National Park Sayek would right next door to its right. And you can get there actually by by train. If you stay on the train passed catching Aubrey town, it goes all the way to a station called Nam Talk Station, and from there you can just walk to the entrance of Seocnd National Park. A non-toxic means waterfall and yoke has a huge waterfall as well. And they have great camping, and if you're really interesting campaign, you can camp there. You don't even need to have your own equipment. You can rent all the equipment for about I, know ten dollars probably from the National Park Center. And Camp Right there at the park do we need to book that in advance you probably do you can probably do that by getting on their website although I don't think that many people in Thailand are necessarily into camping right now. He's not really a popular pastime, so you probably could just show up. But I would say, don't risk. It will in the fact that there to national parks here with a lot of waterfalls means that they get a lot of water. Is there any guidelines in terms of win? You would recommend people come to Thailand what's the best season for visiting this area? I would say, definitely avoid the rainy season, which is like June through October okay. because. It'll just be raining all day and it just won't be that fun especially if you want to do the outdoor activities if you come in March, April and May it's going to be very hot. Thus the hottest part of the year in it's it's miserable. It's really bad. So avoid that as well. I would say the best time to go to cavalry is in. They call it the winter, but it's really the dry season. So maybe November through February, it's not bad. It's really nice well, and is there any particular day that one ought to be in Thailand or more specifically encountered? Aubrey one of the two big tie cultural festivals is called Loy Krotov Day. And it's a day that happens usually in November each year it's lunar so it moves around a bit, but it usually takes place in November. It's the river festival. So in Thailand, the river is such an important part of life and culture. It gives life to the rice fields and everything, and this is a festival that is meant to honor the river. and. So this is a day where people will go out though build floats out of banana leaves and flowers, and incense and candles, and the float them down the river. And it's a really beautiful festival and it's great to see it in. Bangkok. But it's also really important in country as well because the river is such an important part of life in country. So if you happen to be in conscious berry in November, see if you can plan your trip so that you're there on. Sunday because it's it's a beautiful holiday this year. Okay. Well, Lloyd Song is on the full moon of the Twelfth Tai Month. So whenever that is usually it's at the end of November. Good to know before we start to wrap this up anything else we ought to know. Thailand is a really beautiful really welcoming place. It's really easy to travel here. You'll be very comfortable. The people are friendly. But just like what we were talking about earlier with talking about the monarchy. Be careful what you say the defamation laws in Thailand can be really strict and they do apply to tourists. Recently, there was news about an American tourist who left a bad review for a hotel got sued. With the country's strict defamation laws and and it's been kind of a big scandal in Thailand recently. So I would say wait until you come home. If you leave a bad review for for something that would be my advice other than that the people are going to be very friendly. People are very welcoming. It's an easy country to travel in I would say. You know what questions coming your standing in the prettiest spot in contrary where you standing, what are you looking up catching? Aubrey has the best sunsets in Thailand I think there are so many hotels and houses that are quote floating hotels that have built themselves on barges that are tethered to the east side of the river, and they look out west, and so at night, you can see the sun setting over the river quay. and. I think that the prettiest spot is one of the guest houses right outside the Wong. Po viaduct that that Trestle Bridge. When you can see the sun going down on the west side across across the river across the jungle the sky is just it's orange it's red. It's absolutely gorgeous and if you're there in the evening, can sit on the the deck outside your floating hotel have a beer or have have soda and and just watch this beautiful sunset. It's always incredible. I've been there so many times and I've never been disappointed by the sunset in Kabri especially right there. Especially right at the woven duct. Excellent. Is there particularly guest house you would recommend. I believe it's called the Flag House River. Quay it's a little bit expensive. It's about one hundred US per night I mean it's not that expensive but for Thailand is. If you are more incumbent Aubrey town and you're on a budget, maybe if you're a backpacker or a budget tourist. The. Hotel that I. Kind of uses my Go-to is called V. in guesthouse. It's walking distance from the train station it also faces West. is nothing fancy, but it is a flooding River Hotel and It's about twelve dollars per night. So you're getting very basic, very basic accommodations, but it is beautiful and it still looks out west and you can still see the sunset just as well from there as you could at the fancy hotel. Actually another hotel that I would recommend if you are into nature especially if you're into nature, but you don't want to really do camping, you can try glancing which is getting more popular in Thailand sure and one of the famous resorts is called the Hint Talk River camp and it's close to the Hellfire Pass. So you can stay in a fancy tint with all of the luxury accommodations that you're used to but. You can still say that you've been camping and it's probably the equivalent of sixty to seventy USD per night I i. Guess Excellent. Now, we talked about food and we're going to go down to the night market I assume is there any other place that you would recommend that we go for the Best Food Experience Continental Albery? Well, if you're if you're like me and you love a buffet, there's a really good buffet. Just, kind of beneath the bridge. and. If you're only in. Thailand. For a very short time and you want to sample lots of Thai food and kind of compare it. I would say it's a decent place to go because it's cheap and it's pretty good but it's not going to be the most authentic food I'm assuming this is tied buffet and not a Swedish. Mortgage. Board. Yes, you're right. But it's not going to be the most. Typhoon Food because it does cater more to tourists honestly, I would say stick to the night market if you want to try to really authentic food. Okay. Get some barbecued meat get some some grilled river prawns. Yuccas country number. Is Famous? For their river. Prawns. And what you can do is even take it back to your hotel get it to go take it back to your oatmeal and kind of have a picnic on the on the deck outside your floating hotel. It's probably the best way to enjoy the meal. Honestly. Excellent one thing that makes you laugh and say only and contrary. So okay, you know you know the the Colonel Bogey March that they that they whistle in the movie shirt and you know there are some not very polite words that go along to this song. Yes I did learn them as a kid. Right right. So when I was at the river last time, there was a guy they're playing the traditional Thai instrument it kind of looks like a one stringed cello I guess the closest thing I can. I can compare it to and he was sitting there and he was playing it and he was seeing those not very polite lyrics. And I just thought it was so funny and just so odd and so out of place in Thailand, he was sending them in English obviously to the tourists and it just made me laugh so hard because it was really. To See and hear that. Right there on this traditional, this beautiful traditional instrument. Excellent. Definitely well, and I'd have to say the question I don't normally ask you is how much you pitch me this destination, Jesse you could hear me stumble over saying contrary every time. Well. Gosh. I'm not even sure I'm saying at one hundred percent correctly I've been living here for seven years. I've been trying to learn the language for seven years and I'm still not that good at it is not an easy language. This morning I had my fiance who is Thai coach me like like several times to try to make sure I was saying avary correctly and I'm still not one hundred percent sure that I'm I'm doing it right and fiance in Thailand is the other reason I'm guessing where you have fallen in love with. Definitely Often the story as I understand it. Excellent and if you had to summarize. Contrary in just three words what three words Jeeze I'd say beautiful. I would say history. And I would save relaxing because it is a beautiful place to just experience nature. Excellent. Our guest again has been Michael? Durocher. There's and what is the goggles podcast? So I started the ear goggles podcast with a buddy of mine from back home. It's kind of an excuse for us to get together once a week and have a beer and just chat about life but we talk about our lives and we talk about experiences back home in the US experiences here in Thailand, how they compare how they're different. So I guess if you're interested in learning a bit about what just daily life for an expat in Bangkok is like. CHECK US out. Excellent. Thank you so much for coming on amateur traveler and for sharing with us your love for Thailand especially for one last time. Contrary. Well, it's my pleasure Sir conscious avary. That's right. As we go into the community segment of the show I, want to say that I'm probably going to have Michael. Back on the show relatively soon because he mentioned something about doing a show on Bangkok and we haven't talked about Bangkok and quite a long time and it's a very interesting city that I have a love. Hate relationship with. So we'll probably do that in the near future. Special. Thanks again to the patrons of the show who support the show on patriotic dot com patriarch dot com slash amateur traveler. We did a meet up last Saturday, which is always fun and the record for coming from the furthest distance for that meeting was somebody who dialed in from unduly Tanzania, which was great fun. In other news of the community I heard from Sandra who said I want to thank you for the recent podcast on Wales. I attended a summer school in an and it had to be a Welsh name here. Arbor swith back in Nineteen ninety-one and brought back a lot of lovely memories. The day I was in Cardiff we did get to Kessel Cook the Red Castle along with Cardiff Castle embedded in the castle walls you can actually see the original Roman fortifications. Up In north Wales we went to Anglesey and Penman Church, which is the oldest stone church on the island along with Saint Cereals as well. Thank you. Sandra. I also heard from becky recently, who said I just wanted to tell you how my husband and I went to Iceland last year at this time, we would have never thought of going there if I had not been listening to your podcast, I listened to those episodes quite a few times before going are Hawaii trip that was coming up in a couple of weeks had get cancelled. So instead, we're going to do a big US southeast trip starting with the Georgia I've never heard of them from anyone else. So I'm glad that information is out there. I have several episodes to listen to that apply to the area where you're going I plan on getting to all fifty states twelve left and you are nearly the here with your episodes. Thank you you and your guests that pitched the shows that are less obvious places to go becky sounds like I really do need to get that last state in there. We do not have an episode on New Hampshire and Vicky sent me a photo which will be in the show if I. WanNa remind people that this show now has in the MP three version of photos and links, and so if you're looking at it with a wide variety of podcast APPS, you can see those photos if you want to get your photo in an amateur traveler episode or your feedback, send it to host amateur traveler dot com I, especially love hearing how you actually went places because of episodes that we did on the podcast, and if you want to wear amateur shirt in the photo, you send me all the better. You can get those at amateur traveler dot com slash store. And with that, we're going to end this episode of amateur traveller. If you have any questions sent an email to host at amateur traveler, Dot Com, which I think I just said or yet leave a comment on this episode at Amateur Traveler. Dot, com and thanks so much for listening. See want. One Chap- The Man.
Special Edition Podcast with Wayne Wetherall
"Special edition wage doesn't get any more special than this charity. How good is our guest today the great Wayne weather or make this man has invented more trekking companies than I've often had shoe changes letting him like he's all over there's no way he hasn't gone and we're either he's been that has been amazing. We're about to find out about it. So welcome ladies and gentleman boys and girls to page one and only wine wetherell. Thanks Tony vehicles that might it's bloody good to have you with JT myself to to have a look at your life. And because ultimately might you offer a Ventra and your life is an adventure. So let's go back to the start. What was your your first big track that really opened your eyes to say. Hey, I want to do more of this is my dog's name. Was Dakota and I will probably pray pray that but actually went into Vietnam and it all started because I just got this passion for their strange story, you know, you know, what what the strange characters all about and and I'd been down town and invade them and some of the guys are taught about this incredible story. Korkak o. So, what's that all about and I didn't know much about Dakota and that's one of the most incredible stories in Australia's history and am familiar sort of the fundamentals of what drives me forward and I did my first Trek across Dakota in 2004 and it was one of the most life-changing, you know was an embittered not having to me halfway across the track on a sitting at Brigade he'll just go and like how come I don't know about this most extraordinary story of young men, you know, when it backs against the wall, you know, overcoming the Rochas enemy that was hell bent on stealing a land and changing a live forever. So changed me and changed me back in 2004 and it became my passion and and my purpose Control the strange story to tell the story about the the boys that fought on Dakota and the and the fuzzy-wuzzies brothers. Yeah it it's an incredible story and white. I'll be really honest. I'm really am comforted to use. I didn't know anything about Dakota before doing it because I was the same I'd listen to a book The kokoda. If it's Simon's book and honestly up until then I had no idea of the significance of the kokoda campaign. And so hearing you say that you were a novice and of course, I've learned most of my stuff about Dakota from you. So it's it's a really refreshing thing. Can you take us back to that that regard? He'll obviously that's a Monumental battle but that experience of Landing in Papua New Guinea pigs, and and then beginning you first track. What was the last four you remember your very first one absolutely might and you know, that's that's one of the things that when I when I leave dress across kokoda now, I see remember what it's like to be the first month. Rekha I'm in the flowing into Port Moresby, you know, I expected this place to be a Tropical Paradise with a palm trees everywhere and the girls and not the rule out plates and stuff that I flew in the Port Moresby it was dry. There were fires burning there was smoke all over the place from the burning off them fires their plantations and things like that. And you know, I remember that meeting. I was in Port Moresby for a couple of days before hangs the one that we look around and it was just the most incredible experience of of walking through the streets in Port Moresby and just hanging with the locals there and just need to know the place that yeah, the interpretation of going across Dakota like, you know more than a hundred kilometers across the track more than six thousand meters of ups and 6,000 meters of Downs in the middle of the Jungle and the only way out of cacota is just walk out or if you're lucky to get a helicopter in so interpretation is is you know, it's it's big, you know, and I knew I'd done a lot of training a lot of preparation, but you're thinking is so have I done enough dead. To get across this across this range, you know, and and when you're standing there at Iowa's corner and you look across at the the jungles and and the mountains of the of the Owen Stanley ranges, it becomes quite apparent that came in for a moderately big adventure here, you know, and the only way to go is to take that first step and keep keep going and I got a funny story about my very first track on Dakota off from our schooling the only way we started I think we started all the other way. We went there. We went in first year when the first three meters are stepping off. I was corner I fell off the track and I thought I got my leg off frame is because back then the grass is so high then you can only see the truck was only like six inches wide and I'm actually stepped up and I've gone down of God. Oh my God, it's over so months and months and months of preparation and training wage, which, we know and also the back in those days my two getting started. I was calling the roads were so bad and back in 2004 that the buses couldn't wage. Awesome actually have to work fifteen Kays further in the start the adventure, you know, and cuz that's as far as the bosses could get. So, you know, we're willing warmed up before I got two hours corner, but you know that off of the you know into the jungle this like that's it. I'm gone. How how am I going to tell people about my greatest failure, you know, so yeah, but I actually understand how people feel that first part of looking at then you're going like maybe this is just an astonishing, you know, and what brings me back on. I just send a terrorist think what would have been a light plays young men placed soldiers, you know off not knowing what was in front of them because back in those days hardly anybody that walked across the track, you know here I was going to walk the track and I've got the the most experienced guide and the most experienced carries in the business with them did back then and Australian soldiers were, you know had some phenomenal leaders in in Captain same temperature and things like that, but they didn't know what they got, you know what to expect and and they clearly did not For the enemy was you know, you just put yourself back into perspective and you go. Wow, you know, this is just you know, I know when my trucks going to finish those young men who fought back there and number eighty-two didn't know if they were coming back. What would not coming back. So when you said when you when you first did it you had the Epiphany halfway through that it was like wow, no one knows the story was that the motivation behind them, you know turning this into a business for yourself to educate more people about Dakota or was it the the mental and physical challenge part of it? Like what was the big driver because it's decided to set up your own company and change the direction a big move to make so it must have been a pretty compelling. Yeah. I'm certainly compelling. It said it was destroyed cuz back there in two thousand and four. Well, tell anyone walking the track, you know, they're being some some trucking companies that were, you know had been off beforehand, but they could have been fifteen hundred people walk Dakota maybe that year it's so it's not it's not what I was cracking business or just a crack in business already. I'm going to make a million bucks had said there's nothing to do with dead. Angel Gail this was actually just the store. I'm going to oh, that's a very proud Australian. How come I don't know this most incredible story, you know young men, you know with their backs against the wall and there's an Australian battle. There was no Americans was known easy lenders. It was just young men was just a militia you were you know, holding back an enemy and the thing that also inspired me was like was the The Centers of them the fuzzy wuzzy Angels the the porters and Carries and guides that women are hooked up an opportunity to try and change their lives as well here. So for me, it wasn't about was never a financial situation. It was about going I want to be able to the strange story and I want to make a difference to people in Papua New Guinea as well because without their their service and sacrifice of their forebears their fathers and grandfathers. We wouldn't have the success that we did had on Dakota. So it was really about making a difference. It was about I'd found my passion in life. I found my purpose in life, and I wanted to do something significant. And how did you go then? Mike did it was it like I know you're researched better than than most people. I know in terms of the stories and the understanding now you didn't get your research just bought a book to you went out of your way to to meet diggers families and to find out can you tell us a bit about some of those experiences? Yeah, like I think to to speak to the guys who actually served going on the kokoda track. We're certainly extremely spiritual and and and very very moving and one of the questions I you know would ask those guys. Are you? Okay when I was walking the dog track with the cat o Truong because you know the name varies between Track & Trail, you know, and because let's be honest. It's a commercial Venture and we're walking in their footsteps and say why we want you to draw the squad want you to the store really have mites didn't have brothers who never came home, you know, and and I had the honor to me, you know more than a dozen probably twenty other of the veterans who fought on Decoto, you know standard set off. And and he's brought the porch in to Idabel of is Reva and you know for years and years and years I kept up with which stands it. When can you please next time you go to Port Moresby, you know, check check going off his grave in this make sure it's clean and I'd go back in a report to this and here's a man who lost his brother, you know back in nineteen forty-two and you know for all these years later, he lived his life too long to honor his brother and things like that. So it's an incredible story mayonnaise biggest but you know, what don't think they look they look into your eyes and they they they touch the soul and its life can be really unnerving when you when you know, these guys are in fought the most ferocious battles in Australia's history look in you and you know, they're trying to work out work you out if you're decent guy or not or you know, if they should talk to you, you know, it's quite confronting and to see these guys because you know that they they have walked through health and you know, they have you know, they have seen things Thursday. I mean should say and and when I look at you and I talked to and it takes a while for them to trust you, once they start trusting you and telling the story is the most incredible experience to be able to log in to talk and work and also had a unique experience. You also talk to a to a number of Japanese about friends who fall on a track and truly important to understand what this is. This is a a a crackling a strange story and the Japanese were there as well and say whether a popular Gideon brothers and you know, I had many times I met up with in Eastern Europe who was the domain of kokoto who came back to Devon he's dead mites in into into give them decent burials and things like that, you know at minimum four times. I've been on the track with him and also the back down to pop in Delaware setup. He's he's workshops that kind of stuff but to talk to a Japanese veteran and to know what they went through as well and the hardships that everybody went through on this page. Truck is really quite a it's an emotional experience to to talk to any dig'em because I get sent to War by the government's you know, they don't choose to go there back in the day. They told to go and fought they told to go and fight an enemy and someone like you should mirror used to tell me the stories like Wayne very respected the Australian soldiers so much for him as white going to support the slope, but the sport was killing each other, you know, it was such a an incredible experience to to talk to these stickers and you know, unfortunately is only a couple of them left down and that's why telling this story short so important to keep the the memory and the spirit of these guys because these guys are what the strange characters all about. You meet these diggers. You meet these guys who have gone before us, you know, the the nature of the courage and germs from a trip and sacrifice and that's what those words mean. You just really know that you've found that essence of what the Australian character in what the strange spiritual about when you meet these cords off. What's so important to my stomach and probably I would say, you know, the majority of other tracking companies out there to continue to tell the story of these young men who now, you know in their nineties and and and and and getting close to home group of their sacrifices made because it is too true a strange story and then they said the essence of the Australian character. It's very easy to hear the passion that comes through in your voice and and you're right when when someone points a purpose in life everything just sort of gels together. It's clearly doing that for you. I think you said what number 95 tricks now of Kit coded and it would have been off work time of the would have knocked out the termites. I'm stuck in the Novus nineties. Yeah, you know like, you know a little bit worried about getting that up. I just hope you know that the hundredth I'll come up next year and hope to be like doing a Donny Bradman maintenance and and my average will be ninety nine point simply, you know, and and not not not complete the task there might I don't got every confidence here to get to the time now. We got to talk a little bit about Dakota and the challenge around doing the actual track. Trial itself, but it's not just the kind of your business has branched out in a couple of other sort of areas or countries or until someone read about them going to Borneo. We're going to survive bornia, which is one of the most impactful storage in Australia. See if it loads of other Wars derivatives. It's a p o w story and it's a story that was has been, you know, basically Untold in Australia's history as well. It's called the same dark in death march song, you know, and there's more than 2,600 Australian and British pows held in a p o w camp in sin dark in in Suburban audio in in in Lake Norman 45,000, you know as a war started to turn against the Japanese and they had three death marches to move the pows from sin talking into the middle of Borneo to a place called renowned and you know out of the 1700, you know pows who who were in The Dow can't at that time. Only six of lived it's in over the three death marches. So anyway, these guy survive was by escaping. The Japanese had brutalized the the pows part of that. I'd starve them to these guys would answer be under skin and bone and they divorced him to carry heavy loads, you know more than 260 odd case cuz the heaviest jungles of Borneo in one of the sad stories about this as well as that they paid engaged them. They had guides 48 said to cut attract the guys actually thought they had cut the track too long for the Japanese Transportation. So they kind of the most most difficult and most in this pipe in his body would be a bit of a Terrain that they're not realizing the pows going to be walking across this track. So, you know, it's a very spiritual walk there as well to know that so many Australian soldiers. In Paris and no known grave still, you know, it's it's an amazing story. It's different Dakota. No fighting battles took place that it just once again that the essence of the authors and spirit, you know supporting their mates. Now the courage that makes you can looking after each other on that Journey there. So it's it's the worst military tragedy World War Two for Australians, you know, Google look it up. And if much you know, and then we go there, you know twice a year and what's really sad about the death march as well when the when the when the war ended, you know in August nineteen forty-five thousand and going to still you know, a number of Australian soldiers still alive in right now and one of the other Pier W camps for the Japanese were murdered the market reward finished. So, you know, we're so close to getting dozens and dozens. Dozens of these are strange soldiers home or should we did in the nineteen sixty five. So in the other places we go to is Nepal, which is an incredible journey up to the to the roof of the world and to every space game. Annapurna circuit, you know oil and pig I'd have to say Everest in Nepal was certainly one of my favorite destinations here. It's such a place of great Beauty, you know the contrast between the mount and and the the blue sky is something to behold. It is most the most spectacular laying on on Earth the name and just the fact that you know, you know, you're mixing, you know with the local people there and in their calm way of life, if something to behold, it's such a very spiritual journey to be walking, you know towards the the roof of the world and to be doing such beautiful people as well. As you know, I like to try and get them at least once a year to you know, we take some incredible group said they would take what's a charity groups there. You know, we've had some amazing people come to walk over space camp Lewis, you know, it's certainly an adventure and so it doesn't it certainly has some certain challenges there and he had some challenges in the past their, you know, altitude sickness and things like that. So it's certainly down from a dog. The point of view it's certainly puts people right out of their comfort zones. And that's where a lot of having people outside their comfort zones. And that's where you get the transformation from people, you know, there's no transformation inside your compensate. There's no transformation sitting at home watching, you know, National Geographic the rule changes in your life the real you know, the real benefits you get from life is getting out there and amongst these adventures and and seeing you have five even push yourself changing the Benchmark, you know, pushing yourself to you know to to new limits, jar is certainly one of the other ones that we take of that which is, you know, the highest mountain in Africa middle-east 5000 meters. It's certainly one of the the big challenging mountains of the world in certain the weather comes in, you know, we were out there this time last year with the Marquess foundation and Trent Robinson the ruse coaching and we had you know, blizzard conditions on top of the mountains. We had fun with storms and lightening and things that I've seen and you do question as to why am I out here on this mountain exposed to lightning and thunder storms and blizzards wage? Because that's where Life Is Life is on the edge of the mountain, you know, and that's the only way to live your life as pushing yourself partially preconceived limitations and then stretching your boundaries. So you spend most of a year now that's obviously not been covert surround any way out and seeing the world and doing the doing the tricks and the trails what what do you find now because it's a business for you as well. What what do you find is the motivation for people to sign up. Is it for the life-changing Journey or is it for the physical challenge or or so all of the above? What drives people to Fork out the money and pay you to take him on a trick like suddenly like yeah boss is a few reasons certainly could code. You know, we're seeing is just ultimate Challenge the people are looking to push themselves, you know, especially when they get you know, don't don't he's age and stuff like that. They're starting to look like, you know, they want to home see they're still going up, you know, a lot of people want to go and do these challenges to see if they're still what it takes to make it happen. You know that they're no longer that that the young person the young lady dead. But they want to challenge themselves. I want to go back to this trouble feel that they want she get out there and just know that I can test themselves one more time. So a lot of its testing and you know, what you find with something like your code people go there for the physical challenge, but then they get caught up in the cultural and they get caught up in them in the history and becomes so far more powerful, you know, something like the Paul and Everest Base Camp is a challenge but not go there and see where these guys, you know climb to the summer of of everything things like that. So people are looking for challenges people are looking to test themselves looking at people are getting back to Nature, you know, getting out of bed in the concrete jungles changes of you know, what one of the most incredible things you actually see people change and you know, we get to deal with, you know, Elite Sport of people and to me and errors and CEOs and managing directors and all the, you know, the high Flyers of the world, but also, you know the ordinary Australians and the see the change in people is incredible, you know to see people get get back to the page. The basics get back to the the core beliefs, which is really really important. That's what you see the change. You see the people change and go you know, what there's something more important in my life than you know than than, you know, make trying the inbox. So we're trying to do this is actually that being a better human and that's where the that's where it is. That's that's where the joy comes to this kind of stuff being a better human testing yourself and going, you know, having a peace and satisfaction of what you've achieved in your life when you talk about the nature and of course on your website www.spirit.com. There is some cracking photos of of nature at its finest like literally living jungles. Not the on the celebrity get me out of here Caper, but it's the real deal. Do you ever do you ever have time in Thor tricks to just stop and appreciate so to switch off as Wayne the the, you know, the trick guide but and just come back to wind weather all human and just take it all in. Do you have that choice? Sunday, yeah, absolutely might all make sure do that and you know what they're saying that now and one of the things I've had a chance to reflect during code is past I didn't do that enough. I'm perhaps I didn't do that enough on the journey. Maybe I'm not like, you know, the the the fact that I was walking across the Dakota, you know, as my rite of passage is my right to be doing this and I'm gonna be doing it forever. It's a stop in covid-19 being reflected off my nose moments on the track and the simple things are looking at a tree looking up and seeing, you know, like seventy-five years ago. You can still see bullet holes and that kind of stuff like that swimming in in a in a in a river listener kids laugh on the track and things like that that I'm watching soccer ball. They've got nothing but seeing the sheer Joy of people. Yeah. So for me, it really is you've got to stop and reflect and look and just go off cuz it's time to stop and go you look around and go. Well. I haven't seen that and I'm a I love taking photos. I take the photos inside in my mind in my mind, but I also taken me in photos on my on my camera because you age Location just go this is a moment in time in and it just gets fixed in your mind. And it's it's more than just the picture. It's actually a feeling, you know of doing this place and I thought of visualization and visualize, you know, how each day's going to look how it's going to look and what the place looks like. So I spend a lot of time looking and touching and it seems a bit a bit greenish in a bit of a look and touching the trade some of the energy of the place because something like could Koda the energy that comes out of the code when you go to consider the the still hundreds of Australian and and hoping to get in Japanese song such a spiritual thing on these Journeys so you can't help but stop and reflect and feel feel those places and stuff like that, but I'm only 92 checks away from you in terms of Crossing from the code. So I mean, we're same same really but next year to my birth. You know depends on your podcast. Can I do that from a helicopter the capacity or anything? But I tell you what the first time I went my way over with a an amazing group of humans that was with a corporate group and Mick and Tim and and Nick was body. It was a ripping adventure and Faith estimate the second time. I went I had this feeling of of almost being a facilitator watching other people have those. Wow moments. Like it was a completely different experience for me the second time 94 in okay, is it a different experience for you every time or do you do you still have Deja Vu? What is it like for you Malcolm 2078 open to you guys. Now, I still have the tingles. I had the tingles we're at because you just said people you see people's emotion. You cannot help being affected by wage. Kota Dakota is the journeyman and watching people watching people shed a tear watching people overcome, you know, the hardships and sickness and toughness and terrain and now the hate and all that kind of stuff it kind of help but affect you in the standard Brigade help and you've been there made this, you know more than a hundred and one Australian soldiers lost their life at Brigade Hill initially thought you cannot help the film The Spirit in any of this place to any question about every single trick. I get affected every single trip. I you know, you have a dog bunch of people and you're watching and you're seeing and you're seeing the changes and that just gives you great joy because to me it's not a commercial Venture. It's actually watching people change and grow and become better and get it in for me when people get the story of Dakota dumper job and of all of those guys who have gone before us and one of the what I told people I was going to do and you know telling the story would pass. Significance. It's it's it's the greatest satisfaction going to do that mean some people would actually get this story and they'll go home and are taught other people about this story, you know, so that's where the joy see every single treatment or get affected sometimes more than others. Sometimes become very conscious of the fact that I probably should have done a bit more training and as a month, so sometimes as a guide people don't know that you're under training they don't know. What won't you spend so much I see so like you've gotta make sure every every trip it's not like a walk sometimes, you know, we suffer the guide suffer as much as everyone else does on the track they accept we don't show that as much cuz we're not going to know that your guide struggling box as well. You know, so now when I I'm asking this made because as a trick leader you obviously get to mix with a lot of different people as you said you have a celebrity sports stars CEOs, you name it and then you also get off Alphabet select on that goes on track and I'm dying to know because he really talked it up and said made it was a breeze. I thought it was going to be a lot harder than what it was and I thought they did say that you were struggling a bit, but he found it pretty easy. I just wanted to hear from you know, how do you reckon Donnie went on that first trip? I don't like to talk about a school there, but I'm not home so easy for dining cuz you had so many quarters and encouragement and all sorts of stuff there. You know, like it was like man, he was sitting back like teenage boys, please boys. No place off. Here we go. That's what I thought cuz I thought how can you claim that? You've done the trick when you literally been carried on a stretch of the whole way. I don't know if it's necessarily you've done the trick. Is there a distinction they searched I tell you break. Myra probably gonna have to wrap this up. I know he suffered first time. It was the first or second trick to get a lot of trouble that with the with the stump like yep. There might and in his shoe and stuff all that stuff to go across with one leg is a pretty amazing me somebody obviously taking the piece. It's an awesome effort and he gave me, I mean obviously with Don with with one leg. It's obviously more challenging for someone that's got two legs. But what's the biggest challenge? I mean I've heard of some people that have had credible physical challenges that are still put themselves through it. So aside from Donnie have you have you had others on the group? That is just basically, you know, like you go. Wow, no chat legendary could firmly across the truck for 2018 with my legs at. All, right, so good good stuff like that and function. And so he crawled across the track from Decatur to our school and ten days like Anita speak out. Why did you say cruel? Cruel? The lazy little shit. He took a walking. I actually ran him and I said, hey Mike what you've done could kind of what can I expect and he this is his advice to me. It's a Donnie just be ready to be uncomfortable and then be uncomfortable again at that because that's what it's like, but now that I hear he crawled Jesus that's he's done push-ups the whole way across the Dakota. So I believe that I don't eat like your your trip was was pretty pretty special but to see Kurt fearnley call a cord that is that is the most incredible story of their I've ever seen and you know, he did it in the honor of one of the biggest the name of John mettes and who crawled across the track for three weeks that was Kurt inspiration was one of the diggers who didn't want to be a burden to his mates. So, you know, he was wounded in the legs and things that I'm home. In this going crawled behind the the the Medics and in the sequel ever been carried and crawled for three Works to eventually lose his life. And that was Kurtz inspiration. If you ever want to check on, you know inspiration your life check out what Kurtz learning did cross Dakota or check out something like Johnny medicine, you know, so that people who have been blind walk across the track, you know, we've had people work with more abilities, but you know, whether whether great joy comes from is the ordinary Australian, you know, the ordinary guy who saved really really hard, you know, you know in he's in his job to put the money together code is not cheap off and to get there and and to say them and shave a lifetime dream is something pretty special units. That's my say like, yeah, we can all talk about the celebrities and the wonderful people are going across Dakota off the ordinary Australians because this story of Dakota is about ordinary Australians have done something extraordinary, you know, that's what a sheer joy for me is, you know, watching grandmothers and grandfathers do the Trap and you said Strong Gateway. Can you see the week gets stronger and it's just the most incredible story of overcoming hardship. And and that's where the joy is for me and I tell you what the the bond that created way. When you do good car to like a note for for a fact that you know that first group that I went away with, you know, that corporate group still have some of those guys I call really quite mates of mine. And then of course a second timer with with my wife boyfriend my two oldest daughters and you know macaroni her her son, you know and and Romper and you know, that could be a shaky. It was like that Bond itself life form such an incredible Bond how it like 94 bonds you'd have from your experience there any you just got can't wait for this to finish my Euro flop like the day-to-day mine, but I took it comes very tribal any reservations become quite from like I got a multiple Dakota Spirit groups out there and went across bars and there's light off. Joan white because even becomes tribal, you know become become so tight in your own group and you look at them going like what are they got? What are they doing now? So that is the one great things and and you don't need to go do a code of with a group home have so many individuals that come together. And that's for the Great Joy from once again to make it this form computer individuals come together to form is incredible type tribal teams. So talk about the the the sequel side of things weighing. So I'm imagining Dakota and I'm thinking that you're staying overnight in some beautiful accommodation having a spar getting message down on the rubdown table Etc. I'm assuming that that's exactly correct. Yeah. That's that's pretty cool climate helicopter. It's nice. It's night. Now where the great Joys Decatur is. It was it's physically challenging, you know, you're climbing a massive Hills and and and and me and you know, tree roots and rocks and rivers one day you're crushing twenty two rivers and things are there that you know, what the pain and suffering of A Hard Day's Work diminishes when you get into Camp, you know the birth Graaskamp side, but this Crystal Clear streams. You can see the boys are got the fire going to Billy's on, you know, you go for a swim to cool down and your freshman yourself up need to sit around with a bunch of new found mates around the fire having a dog or a cup of coffee told him at the dining. You look around at the vista of the place that the share, you know Greenlee other place the different colors of green and looking at The Villages and you're walking of these these religious women. It affects rooftops. There's no electricity. There's no running water is no power as know nothing but the simple joy of being out in the middle of the Jungle in the middle of nowhere in a village and here in New Jersey is laugh and run around and it's just magical I couldn't agree more. I've been lucky enough to go through Nepal twice and and I agree that that from a practical perspective on kakang. Anyway, how many hours a day do you track him? Cuz my Nepal days you started pretty early cuz it's pretty warm in the mountains and you normally done roughly around lunch time. And as you said you got the whole afternoon to just to relax and Thursday. She drinks and you know have a chat in the armed with you found might see a similar in Dakota or or sort of the difference between cocoa powder and an average folks computer is physically walk up in the sense that there's not really defined Trail. So you only thing I hundred K is when we can find out in, you know, five cases now or whatever you probably knew walking at one a half to two k's an hour because it drains so rough off any trees and send that reboot and semi rocks and things are there the longest walking day is about eight to ten hours and we cover about 15 cage that's it off and so much mud and that kind of stuff like that. So it just physically different the walking style. You know, we're in Nepal is quite the find tracks indicator is a snow Victorian or Queensland National Park. This is Rough and Ready is it was, you know, a hundred years ago when they when the truck was first formed for the ability to go across the track. Another thing. We could Co de Dau khong You know the track predates War so it's at least wrap and so the walking from Village to Village to to get get things done it so and that that sort of followed belong to set up the camp the night and cook the food might sort of stuff. Is that how sort of roll we have? We have the most incredible machine of of locals of the airplane G teams over there made they are absolutely and you should probably one of those the stories that we don't speak enough of them is the bond that you will have with you. G quarters in the future, you know, our our Trek guards our carriers our cook-off Medics, but those guys are just absolute Legend and how they can whip up a meal over an open fire, you know in the middle of the Jungle just to leave nutritiously feed your dog cooker, you know, wash up after you all that kind of stuff put your tents out pull your tents down. Maybe it's just an extraordinary story. So, you know, you read walking them through Kara. So Kyu Kare is a really simple my home. Quite simple, you know you get up in the morning for breakfast is made for your walk the morning too so I can walk to lunch time and you walk to campus people that you so they'll get over all but when I talked about Karen these Big Adventures, oh my god is so big and so hot so long it's going to keep things nice and see a little bit like break things down. Just take one step at a time get through each point and then then it becomes quite a simple process after them. Not quite what is am I remembering the Polack would be all the Slugs you can tell us we were or in our fall hiking here. We'd have the other boots on it where the gear and and you're looking over these border sealed mutually wearing thongs current 29th. That's what it's like in the track. My boys are in their seat and and they'll have a form they went up to them. But you know what people thought I had shoes when I had purchased things that you do Supply. Bhuja do Supply shoes and they last half a trick might because I such beautiful people they give it to everybody else. So if I give in to their mates or given to the p Welcome to the family and the village will look into their wife back in the court Morrisville just to go out the VIN walk in this truck there for you know as the fathers and grandfathers and great-grandfathers. Am 78 years ago my it's incredible to watch but the funny thing is like masks and like made you lose your farm and I found one. I remember why giving my life my took a few pairs of shoes over there something that I trained in and I the first track I gave them to Ruben my guide and I've got a missing awesome bike on also fortunate. Have we been again second time around and thank you for writing that and I I gave him my shoes again. This would be a body trade, you know, and the next day war, you know out of respect for me the next day's fucking fever blister. Thursday was in all sorts of trouble and I had to tell him please don't wear them on my behalf my elves that's that's that's the thing they look so grateful and then it's one of the great beauties of the main home. Like I have very little but I just so grateful for what they have and they will share it around so he would have gone eventually those goods would have ended up. You know, we were a family member or his mate and things like that. That's that's one thing I traced on Keller and popularity and let's face of Papua New Guinea cops a fair. Whack in the Press of negative thing. But the people have beautiful it's like anywhere in the world, you know looking like in Australia know where wage we've certain people who aren't the best character that in Papua New guinean eight ninety-five ninety-six ninety-seven percent of the people over there are just wonderful people having a crack, you know, and and it's a great thing about Thursday or is among sewers and gets going a game. You know, I would too to get them more employment. I would have seen it keeps the school simple things like that that we take for granted here in Australia now, so that's why tourism place people are really such an important thing and so important I mean do get back to Papua New Guinea and back on the track as soon as we can you go to any other destinations. You've already said that obviously Papua New Guinea in Nepal and Kilimanjaro Etc every month. Thing else on the wish-list might want to take you directly to you. Next Yeah, we actually operating in New Zealand now. So we've been operating in New Zealand since last year and we because as I was starting to get a little bit older, but I was looking looking at 5 or Adventure. So I mean we have table over Washington born rich you are you coming out walk in the morning first floor in to be right at Parts until the fact we can try them anymore. And then we going to put the Box on the back of the van and we get around from one room to orange juice incredible adventures in New Zealand as well. We do a lot of kayaking and mountain biking and and and staying really good accommodation things like that. It's pretty amazing. They're my bucket list next year. I'm going to do all on big in the pool and not be one of the Seven Summits again egg Kon Kar Gila and which is 27000 meters. So koban's to be opportunity to to dream big again to refocus on Thursday. As a personal goals is on for the ego ring whether it's just about you know, you know before I get the stage where I can't do anything anymore. I want to go and have a room ready. Crank and leave nothing on the table. They leave nothing unsaid then they they nothing none done. So that's where it is made. So we'll continue to develop we've got this cracking and Ventures now cuz you know in in the Northern Territory when we moved up into trick now, you know, if the Anzac Day, you know twenty Twenty-One, we've got this amazing trick for the Northern Territory where we you know, we started dialing a literal National Park and then food packaging and we go into Arnhem Land with a local guides up there in Ireland and get into the traditional way of the of the landowners up there and the the UpCountry up there and then the uninformed Katherine Gorge and met a Wrangler and places like that. So we're developing some Fantastic Adventures in Australia as well. And up here on the Sunshine Coast might we have some of the most incredible Coastal walks. We did an amazing 80k wage. From one end of the Sunshine Coast album and Coastal tracks and beaches and it's just absolutely Spectacular Now make one of the world's greatest walks get online some Choice adventures.com Toyota. So what was it? W w w Sunshine Coast Adventures wage war Spirit of inches. Com know, where are you now when it sounds to me, you know, and we haven't met prior to doing the podcast obviously gonna camera tracks with Donnie. That sounds to me like you live in the dream job and you found a purpose and and everything's gone crazy. But what are you doing when you get down because you are essentially inspiring so many people on your tracks and what you do but there's times that you can't be that bad all the time. And right now, it's been tough for a lot of us. We it's taken us away. From what we normally do. So aside from doing some training giving you a chance to dream big. Have you sort of got through this. It's been off. Read it it's really been a tough tough, six months familiar, you know on on personal level and business levels and on all different levels, but I've been very very lucky to have had a great bunch of networks wage people who are being extraordinary and all of us are doing it tough in their own way. I mean, the thing is realize as like to think of poor me poor me poor me that you know, the seven billion people in the world are suffering doing it off the familiar. It really is saying connected or trying to stay connected, you know, we certainly have our massive loads and I don't stay up all the time. I actually have suffered personally through this can be seeing more than I can add a recall in my life. But for me this visualization, it just visualized I visualized and I can see how this ends so I don't have an answer for That vaccine wage. I know this will end but it's moments in in time where you cannot see anything ending, but you've just got to get up you've just going to take that one step and just get for the Desi and your mind. You've got to acknowledge. Struggling you gotta acknowledge that this is tough. Yeah, you've got to give yourself the space. You've got to give yourself fundamental recognition that you know, I am doing it tough and size of a nice doing itself that get through this, you know and say yeah for me but I would be so active. So the thing is I've got a I've actually had to stop and slow down Force, you know, I would have would have gone twelve Adventures by now, you know, so the girl is is keeping stuff and trying to inspire people around because it's so easy for things to fall apart and people do look for you know for people to go. Hey What's Going On The World Is it going to be an answer this kind of stuff and not I don't have the answers but you just gotta go. It's got It's got to get better, you know. So yeah, that's that's a tough thing made. It really is time. He did you go to acknowledge low points and I do and I've had plenty of them during this and lucky. I've had some really cool people around me and and just keep get up get up and keep going to keep that Vision off. Was you know, the passion Province Millions have been just you know, you look back and then and if you want to know if you're on my Facebook page and stuff like that, they'll have like I said back in March. It's all going to be about character. It's all going to be about and check or how this all plays out and you wanted to look yourself in the mirror every single day. And then the day I don't know to please anybody else but they're quite looking back at the end of Europe home and it's like well in the mirror guys, are you gonna, you've been indicated on this change this change that that's really important to look yourself in the mirror and not be too caught up in the Instagram world of the Facebook page or anywhere else with people's opinions count cuz you know what people's opinion on what's going on in in humans head underneath that be honest yourself in a day and just be honest that I'm suffering be honest of the discipline and keep going and keep the dream alive because that's some great advice and some great tips from purely from a business perspective might have you think this is going to pan out for you post, you know, when everything is up to you think it's going to be good for dog. Miss the people going to go. You know, I really want to get out there and challenge yourself or is it, you know, they want to type of cash and I just can't afford to invest in this at the moment. Where do you sort of set Landing for you? You look for us fortune in a way. I could create a business account has always been a niche market in mind and you know, you can you can take your theme me to some way of the same price you can go do get code but it's dead. It's life-changing. These things are life-changing. These things are empowering in these are the greatest things that you can do in your life. If you want inspiration, you know, you want to empowerment choices like occasional actually see Cacao will continue to look at it and continue to do nice kind of thing. You know sure the people who will start doing more Caravan. Hawaii is probably in Australia things. I don't compare them. We've been really really for sure. This is quote-unquote of and we probably taken more than a hundred and twenty bookings from a business perspective is probably unheard of in the tourism business more than 120 booking stream kosu for the kokoda another destination. Well, okay. I just waiting to go waiting for the green light and we've had very very very very few cancellations with a few people have just gone like I can't do this on I'm out panicking understand but let me tell you to anybody who's ever thinking about pulling the PIN code don't ever space camp Kilimanjaro on any of these Adventures. They are life-changing. They are the greatest thing you ever going to do when your lawn and you're going to come back ten foot tall and and not the same human. So, you know, I see it's difficult the moment, but it's going to go off and off. In full flow be difficult. I'm going to have I'm going to hell difficult for us. We don't have to try and hire people like don't you're going to be guide for us. That's how busy it's going to get money. So it'll be you know, things have got to a whole new level when I get a gig as a as a translator. So Place yourself without might the kokoda spirit.com. Are you will never be the same if I get on board, but what we do need is the lights are off from each five star resort starlife the male model. I would love to see JT get his hands dirty May. Where should we go if we're going to trick with you and and do an outside broadcast podcast everybody amazing wage. Where would we do it right here is the place to go? You cannot beat the the computer doing karaoke calories still the argument there, you know or ever Space Needle Kilimanjaro my we've got a big bunch of people. Look. I know you only want one of them like one micro or school. I would never go back to Kilimanjaro again because it's so physically challenging, but every time I'm going back again, we got another another dog. Bunch of guys going to Kilimanjaro next year with me that the wish you were here guys, you know, Canales and Steve hunt. These guys are all coming back another big adventure. You know, I'm going to Big mod coming to Everest Base Camp. Next year off is what you want. If you want to be physically challenged you want to be mentally challenged what your spirit uplifted you want to know one of the most incredible stories in Australia Sharika code as a place to go man, cuz there's no greater story. It is the most like coding story in Australia's history. We talked about deliberately been the birth of our nation that could Coda is where we came of age in Korea is where we fought back to the war. You know, as I said earlier. I'm against the Russians enemy off a large stock want to steal our lane and change it out, you know change your future forever. You can't beat a sort of inspirational stories walking in the footsteps of Heroes walk in the footsteps of their brothers ma'am. It's just you thinking what I'm thinking right? It's this computer is wind got you across the line you it's all you might it's funny honestly because of a guiding the dog The twice and but it was twenty-odd years ago. And I think everything went said I completely agree with it was life changing for me and I still look back even today. I look back and just think how amazing that experience wasn't that sensitive or and pride and all those things that you have when you finish it because it was physically tough and challenging and you know, you never forget that and the resilience that you build and belief in yourself. So thousand one hundred percent believe, you know, I must admit now when I'm Forty-Eight years old and just getting out of bed. Some days seems to be a struggle. I always think shoot basically what I actually get through it and then I can only look at looks like you done and then you go shit can call it and you can do it on one leg and I've got a buddy solve back or something what the hell am I changing about and and I love the way way, you know broke it down into the small steps. And and I think that was sort of similar in the poor guy, you know, what time look at, you know got a trick right hours a day or just got to go to some morning tea and when I get the morning today, we reset we have a break and then we're going to get through to lunch and then you know and off. That's the way to do it. So, you know, you've you've inspired me Wayne. I must admit product, you know, get on board Mike. Com. Wine is talk that around he's not a bit of politician. He's on the fence. He hasn't bloody Community. We just going on on the most often is broadcast in the world the beginning up Podcast. He's just committed we're given we're going to take him across the track. He's coming we is made there's no way out of this in 2021 months might be going to do character and you know what we're gonna do it. We're gonna go let's let's choose August because August is one of the most incredible battles that ever happened on Coco instabilities arrive or understand them is around Memorial with the full brunt of pillows of coverage insurance might have been sacrifice and be there almost on its own when private Bruce still Kingsbury was the most gorgeous human in that battle there when he was awarded a Victoria Cross and lost his life in the battle. You cannot he cannot do anything more spooky cannot stand on more sacred ground. In Australia, cuz back then it was a part of you know part of who we were so my your income. Yeah, man, put it on the on the line now, maybe get one sitting. He's off. He's good. He's good too. I reckon on their tree. Sorry, you tell a good yarn O2 on a trick, you know, what is a lot of yarn. There's a lot of arms to tell my that's one of the main stories out. There is the amount of stories you can tell and you know what, I mean, when you walk in there, you're actually still seeing the fighting pits. So where they boys are Russian Dugout, you're still fine and grenades are still finding bullets. And you know, when you stop in profit one of the major battlefields some of the strange soldiers and some of the Japanese soldiers have never been recovered their Spirits throughout that it it's just you cannot be like, you know, you can talk about the beauty of Nepal. The one is a climbing Kilimanjaro and and the beauty of New Zealand kind of start but the raw spiritual energy and physical, you know achievement of walking Dakota, Can't be copied reading was really done. The the one in Thailand. I'm trying to struggle I think about that I pass that you can walk and then once again, that's that's incredible story. But you know for people that I've got so when you talk about Hellfire pass and want to start said that those guys came out of changing printed in Singapore and tell them was sent down to change to do the the raw way down there and now this will send down the same dark and things like that. And when you hear the stories of how they how they were punished and how they suffered and things like that. It's just extraordinary system will fire pass amazing. It's a dark and isn't actually walked the whole the whole way. I mean, Well, I'll tell you what should I tell you on on bodypump item ready to run through a brick wall just to send these Pockets. It is exactly why we connected with you why I'm so grateful that you you give up some of your time might join us on the media podcast a special edition at early superstars make a note of the special edition method and talk to you to you guys right now. I just feel like I feel like a little kid that my Autos got a lot. It's pretty well. I tell you what, it is special and of course the ratings and then when I think back about Dakota has so many times. I'm watching TV and firemen and wolf and I will just say an image will go what's that remind you of you know, and and it's just then of course that leads into a whole new lot of conversations and memories and it's it's not significant and and relevant in terms of the the experience. I want to say, thank you. Mighta I know that I thanked you for and and certainly post our adventures. But thank you publicly wage. For the amazing work you've done not just for me and my group the 95 plus the all the people you've employed the difference you've made in Papua New Guinea because of of your commitment and of course, thank you on behalf of the Australian soldiers of people that actually had that fight and and you've taken it on as a personal thing to share their stories and made in my opinion. No one does it better so, we certainly appreciate you you reply to kill human. Thanks, man. And oh, they're just finishing up on that night. But you know guys, we're all suffering through covert that remember these guys might you know, we've been there before we've had our backs against the wall before you may have had overwhelming odds against us, you know, we've had an enemy that wants to destroy us. You know, what we've always have a comment do that again one class question before we wrap this up my ex. I mean trick as you've been we've received a scam before have you ever been tempted to to go the rest? Yeah, certainly certainly been tempted, but I I should have a slight Fear of Heights, New Jersey. Yeah, it's like it on the suspension bridges going across that kind of stuff certainly squeezes squeezes things together for me and I get a little bit off and I don't want to see trending like to do it but I don't know. It's like every man his dog is doing a risk be the loving say you still don't know, you know where I should actually want and this is a big drain for for end of 2021 and 2022 actually going to walk to the South Pole that that's my big dream. That's where I should really want to be an awesome wage for those make that do want to learn some more know we've dropped a couple of websites during the podcast, but where can people go to learn more about what what offers what's available might just go on to the kokoda spirit.com websites www.spirit.com know you but and there's a hole in that information area. There's a lot of history on there's a lot of stories or testimonials or get on a computer script Facebook page. She has a lot of interaction in a lot of people talking their stories any other photos just by your way, you know, there's there's there's a mean different photos and and stories Dakota you don't so you don't get on cars.com website or Facebook page there and and just an immersion sort of them and guys, but they just finish them to for those who don't think they can physically do go to start training, you know prepare for it or read a book about it cuz it is really one of the most iconic stories in Australia's history the 19th yourself a favor and do those boys a favor and learn something about it, but I interrupt it up by a lawyer. He did that exact thing. I use the audio book when I was out training and there is no greater motivation than listening to that educating a lap. So well-done my honey. Love to having you. Thank you so much.