4 Episode results for "Heeschen Nonni"
"You? Walk. Made it weird with the homes. Look. What's happening? Weirdos Charlie Day writer producer actor director, always sunny. Pacific Rim fist fight, God I, Love Charley Day I've loved all his work and I really loved talking with him. I'm excited for you guys to listen this episode and all episodes are brought to us by our friends at Charlotte's web, CBD Hemp Loyal Goto Charlotte's web, dot com slash weird, and get some calm gumy's come on. We could all use them. Calm those. It made a huge difference in my life. Go Use Promo Code, keep it crispy nineteen for ten percent off. As you guys know I don't do traditional ads on this podcast. I only promote and endorse products that I absolutely actually use and truly love. The newest Pete's pack is living libations. Living Libations is the finest and best and most effective skin care products. I have ever found in my life. It was a couple maybe four or five years ago. Maybe more than that. Actually I realized I'm very mindful of what I put in my body when it comes to food. But I realized that I wasn't being very careful about what I put on my body. I would buy shaving creams and face washes that I thought were fancy and good because they were expensive and French or whatever. But actually they were made with chemicals that we all know are linked to disease and toxicity, and just never intended for humans. So I, realized I want to eat food where I recognize the ingredients and I didn't even know until I found living libations that that was a possibility for my skin care as well. But it is I started with their ginger exploiting scrub. Ingredients you recognize and it is the most bad ass. Bullying Scrub have ever used I'd put it up against any willing scrubbed that you get at the pharmacy. It is more powerful than that. It's got more grit gets more stuff off your face, and it is incredible before you shave I'd say it makes your shave ten times. Smoother is a huge huge huge factor before you shave also just a great way. Way To clean your face made with plants and oils and extracts that I recognize, and it's real and it's natural. It's wonderful and it works speaking of Shaving I. also use their shave, which is so clean and natural and moisturizing. You can actually use of it. When you're done shaving as an aftershave, they also make wonderful aftershaves, but zen shave also works as an aftershave because it's so clean and natural. Anonymous, Neon Blue Gluten Goo. Shot out from a pressurized, can you got it the seven eleven I also at night use best skin ever moisturizer? It smells great. Feels Great. Makes your skin, look at us that before bed and I promise you whatever your skin needs. Face body is t even babies, we got baby Leon. Baby products, living libations has premium high-end natural, wonderful product to replace the random chemical nightmare they sell at. CBS. So go to living patient dot com and use Promo Code. Weird for twenty percent off show your support of this podcast, make your skin. Feel look operate and love you better. Speaking of Staff, wonderful staff that you can put in your body natural wonderful foods that you can put in your body. No new age I got turned onto from my friend David. He told me about Heeschen Nonni, juice to Heeschen. NONNI is a super fruit. Use Me. It's known for its medicinal properties. It's been used by healers for literally thousands of years as an ancient health remedy. But guess what we've caught up with medical science modern science. It is now scientifically proven to boost immunity boost immune activity, naturally enhance energy and support overall wellness I was skeptical. At first. But I saw they have published and peer reviewed studies with clinical double blind trials with placebo that show four ounces of to heat known Jew. Twice a day increases your K- cell count. That's your natural killer natural killer n case. By thirty percent. That's thirty percent more ammunition to help keep your immune system stay powerful. It's two hundred and seventy-five nutrients and fighter nutrients, including key vitamins, minerals, and antioxidants. Delicious a little bit like pomegranate juice. It's cut with a little bit of blueberry to give it some sweetness in there and I take it in conjunction with their supplements sell defense, which has been clinically shown to help your body fight inflammation. Usually a bottle excuse me of self defense and a bottle of heat known you a one liter bottle would be one hundred dollars. But for listening to this show, you can get both for forty bucks and show your support of this podcast and no, you're doing something healthy and vital and helpful for your body every day twice a day go to. New Age dot com slash weird forty and. New. Age Dot com slash weird forty. That's guys. In, those are the Pete's picks. Get Him. Get Him in. and. Get get this Charlie Day, condo ears, I really hope it makes you as happy as it made me and I. Hope you guys are healthy safe and staying saying, please be kind to one another and enjoy the wonderful man that is Charles Day a get into it. Charlie. Who or charity? Day? Or sweet. Food sweets, Charlie Day using earphones I. Having your phones is better to use. I just use them because I like I. Like the intimacy makes you feel A. Every of my longstanding fantasy. Being a DJ. Right Child earphones, but. Jimmy, just. Look sure White Nice and clean up. I'm so glad we're doing this. Thank you. Do you mind if we start recording and? please. Are we due? To. The video of this, go anywhere body. I could pick my nose. Yes. Yes. You're totally fine. what's going on? How are you? How are you today? Well not hang I'm using the earphones. Say by the way I I, always forget sometimes when I do podcasts. You WanNa step annual, warm room. You know you have a meeting or something and you're like, it was warm. This is a warm podcasts I. Think you're great. Thank you just removing the headphones. Made me laugh. Yeah. I wanted to say what isn't true of a lot of us? Are a funny guy. You're just like a naturally. We'd some of us are funny performers. You had that in your life link where people will laugh at you? No matter what. I remember when it was and it was usually the grownups, it wasn't the other kids. And if you got me in front of a parent that I didn't know or a new like a sub teacher or something, I was a big hit with the with the. With the faculty. The students didn't think like I had my friends at thought. I was funny. But like I really swing for the fences if there was like to this day. Something you know, I'm married now too. But like I used to love meeting girlfriend's parents and stuff like that was my my pocket now. Sweet spot. Yeah. Who was yours with with the with the Jilin's you're in Rhode Island is that At any any audience, any since I was going after as of this, just the other day where. I, think to look back on it. I was probably much more. Gregarious and much more like A. Willing or desperate to make people laugh the now, I don't know, I've lost a lot of it. We just talked about that yesterday where I was like I'm not a big pot smoker. But every once in a while, I'll smoke pot and it will take me back. To. The feeling we called it the fire hose feeling where you're like if someone's laughing. All Liquor Dog Durda, and it's not that I have a liquor doctorates. It's like I was just watching sunny and they were talking about eating attorney action one egg. On my mind like when you when you turn it into a career part of your job, and I'm assuming you have a family and all that stuff is to learn how to curb it a little bit. But I think when we were kids, it was so pure. It wasn't for business in the best end. The best laughter and we're guilty of so much of this on Sunday, but when you really not supposed to laugh. National's laugh or something has happened I mean like your teacher is far did and you know. Everyone heard him bar and you know that if you're laughing glass for those those sublime after that's it has. I still remember this is actually I. Don't have. I haven't told a lot of stories I was married when I was twenty two I. Don't. I. Don't tell stories about my first marriage and that's not by design. It's just how it happens to be. But here's what we were seeing a an apartment in Chicago. And her cousin whose name was Mike was like our big fancy in into the city, I don't know if you remember those types of was like. I live in Chicago, I can help you get to play, and so the status like we need to know the status of played, this was the cooler older guy. But looking back I wasn't like the funds. He was just like to us and he was sitting in our window. So he took a cool seat. Sat in the window and he put his leg up and he was sort of leaning on sort of waxing on about Chicago and like where to get the bus bloody Marys or whatever it was, and he let out the perfect like we're in the middle of the sort of diatribe this. Perfect. I, still remember it. Like a very long time ago I remember the. And he just. So quickly, he would. He tried to do with. You just went excuse me and then kept going. But? I was twenty two. There's no I. Mean. We waited from leave, but as soon as he left. We talked about that Fart. For decades. Lie Hope that farts will remain sacred. Funny at throughout the rest of the time I mean I. Hope that we don't get a place where like you know some people can't control their thoughts and we need to be more sensitive about heart shaming are changing. Shaming me, I had a friend who was like, I was going to his grandfather's house for the moon. He was like just. So you know my father, my grandfather can't stop fighting and don't make fun of him and like it was like before we had curb. But if I had, I would have been like, what is this curve? You telling a fifteen year? Old Kid dilemma departs I feel I think we'll be okay I. Hope we'll be okay because farts on this podcast, we always ask the guest, the hardest time they've laughed, and it's usually a fall or a fart and to to your point. Is usually in a situation where you're not supposed to laugh. which brings me my greatest appreciation of Sunning. Is there's somebody some saint some beautiful person, and I hope you don't mind cause. They used footage without permission, but they put together a master cut of the bloopers out. Great. So it's all the blue like all the bloopers are up independently, I. Think you know sanctioned, but somebody just put them all together and it's like three hours and Valerie and I have watched it through more than one. And it's it's Y. and I'd love for you to speak to this because this is not the just talk swell Charlie. It sort of is, but it's It shouldn't be I'm here her a good listen. I Guess Listen Charlie. I want you to speak to this specifically because this is not morning radio and you don't need to tell the story of the the famous. Now Story of how you pitch and made it all. It's I want you to talk specifically. To the idea that you are on a show that constantly was cracking you up is what I said to vow, and then I'm Gonna I'm GonNa stop chatting was I I really want my next show to be a show with a Blueberry Hill. I'm very proud of crashing, but it wasn't a blooper wrote real show and that's fine but sunny is like you're saying. Earth endings and you're and you're. Eating and shaming. The elements of Improv, I think, add to that where you have a script and you scripted it. To the point where hopefully you never have been promising the line into Larrea. But then he started up in someone thinks of something and then often times I'll be in the middle of the scene and then start to hear it from the outside. Imagine what the audience is hearing. A. Big Fan of of the other actors as I. Think our fans are so like. Displaying Things Macaroni Caitlin, Glenn, that just absolutely crack me up. So yeah, I just. It's gotten bad. Honestly, I have to. It's gotten better as I've been father because sometimes think okay I'm about to lose my shit in the stand and then I'm like you know what? Might. Not Home with my son, I'm out here. Doing this I should get through this and get home for him, and that's and that's helped me only a little bit because sometimes it's just too. We, there was one on crashing where we couldn't stop laughing and I. Think it was four in the morning. The problem with it though was I don't think anyone could have known what was funny about it. This scene wasn't even really like written to be funny. It's just the way someone was walking in wearing. It's towel. And if you watch it, it's the. Seir. Silverman episode. There was no way around it. I just looks like I've been weeping and every time I. Talk I'm just like well, the I'm just trying to say the line 'cause. That's all we have. It's all we have. It's funny that you mentioned trying to get out of there because, and you have to understand him saying this as to commiserate with you to relate to you sure in the bloopers. It's often you that that's laughing and dying, but you're the one that goes come on. Like. The worst although I think everyone's got a little bit bad. But I'm the absolute worst. And I. Mean like where's breaking or we're trying to break raking on just having. Too Much Fun and I think it's become almost like a nervous reaction like this and I really feel guilty if like Glenn is knocking it out of the park and I'm like, but I've got all these tricks. Rolex. Look at my shoes. We'll do cages the. But and I'm now trying to psychologically towards resolve outta laughing but. Gosh. I, just I enjoy it so much. Nikki Michele. Time? That's what I mean, and it sort of goes back to what we were saying at the beginning farts and the childhood firehose time. So I think, it's the right goal for me I'm like I, WanNa and Ensemble, and I want I want tone onset because again we were riffing. But like you sort of need to turn the I, don't even know how to do it, but you need to get the chemistry to appoint. It might have been because on crashing the the the The cast is always rotating always lots of different people. Certain certain actors. We would knew each other better than would crack more with other people. It would be like this is the only thing we're doing together the taking it very seriously, everybody would get through, it would be fine but I love that sort of. sleepover. Feel. And I what season around was that you guys were like. We feel safe because I feel like that had to be dangerous for you like at the beginning your scrappy and choppy, and you could probably be like we don't WanNa fuck up. But around season what we like I. Think we're okay and then it got harder. I don't know. I mean, I think we were always pretty bat like. It was sort of A. Commoner for like what's working? You know that? It's never really that laughing at. How brilliant the actor is or whatever it's? It's that I? Just. His character things is they get me. More happened on another movie or another project. It really is the intimacy of working with those guys in the show and the Sonny is the show that you can't even summarize the episode without laugh. You have to understand how jealous I am of the whole thing. It's so lean its friends. It seems pretty not easy to shoot, but you have some sets that are reliable meaning like it's. It's not gonNA be a shit ton of night shoots and stuff like this production porn fan. Now, it's really issue I. Feel I started feeling years ago. The opposite where I was like men were really limited in the lucky can give things. You know you have all these other shows that have as cinematic quality in their winning on his wars, and we're like, isn't because we look like a home movie. But that home quality is really what makes this show? Gives it its charm. You Know I. I. Are you aware I know I told you that you don't have to any, don't tell the story of how the show got made, but are you aware that me personally in the beginning of my career? There is no pitch to this day. I'm sure of someone starting out that doesn't have a huge backlog of work. Pitching a show that they believe in. There's no pitch that doesn't say always sunny. Like you guys really. Opened a door and left it open and I am not just buttering your bread I. Hope you feel good about that like I'm sure when I Whatever I was pitching. I I was saying you got A it's like saying a hail Mary. It's like you gotta always sunny this I. Know you don't know who I am and I believe that this can be really funny has had been. Aware of. Yeah. I, mean I. Think. So you know I think I'm. Certainly proud of being have pulling it off. You know like we were given a shot and we were able to find an audience and. And do it on a very lean way, and we did it from the ground up which was. Out. Of. Necessity. But. I'm also not aware of the impact that other performers you know it's. It's not something that. I feel like it's hit or miss when I meet me people like no, it's Specifically, industry people like if I meet like A. Like. A. College guy or girl get started probably, not much. Find. Meet someone like an actor whatever like. A director thing. It seems to be pretty hit and miss with who who knows it, and what the impact on them has been. It's hard to get write your own. History in terms of how other people perceive and. Show well, then maybe it's A little bit of a good feeling. Just know dozens of Comedians people. I know that are trying to make shows not only in the pitch. It made all of us believe that we could do it, and again sunny is a legit show. You guys are obviously phenomenal and were from the beginning. So it's not like these guys. These instagram models got a, it wasn't bad. It was like Oh, if it's funny and you find someone, I, think we can agree i. mean one of the things that can be tricky to find someone willing to take a chance. When I worked with Judd. No I I would be standing next to a driver or a or anybody, and then I'll be saying like I just need to get ten minutes with with Mr, Tau like like you want someone to take a shot like the ad is the the vibe and always the mythology of always sunny for those that don't know I think you're picking up from the context. It's relatively unknown people. The TV show that. Again didn't just give us a touchstone in the pitch it. It gave a lot of people. Hope it gave me hope going like Oh, you can do it. You just have to find those special. That makes sense I never thought about that in terms of. The fact that no one really knew who we were before the show. So. You know it's not like. That would probably be very encouraging thing if I young starting out actor. Huge grab a camera and can show like. Where you guys didn't have that like men were really throwing a Frisbee into the into the abyss here when you were bitching it. Thirty positive that we could do it. Useful. I'm. Like I guess is the word thing. I mean, we all started fell. Very cocky. In terms of. I mean I. Think. We, all worked I just come off of a TV show, Louis, Guzman I the year. Before I'd done fifteen network TAT's tests during pilot season or whatever. The. Okay and Glenn Harrington Works and Rob Works a lot. So we kind of felt like, all right we. We're GONNA work. was that we could pull it off I. Think we were just saying. Yeah. Show Shot I. See you only nobody like now that I live in La. I'm like Oh. Yeah. I see why you didn't think throwing a Frisbee and the best fifteen that means you're in fifteen pilots basic. Are you tested? I was casting your tested, but you knew there was some quality. People did not me? Entities this guy, this guy at plus a show will not equal anything. This is what I will never tire talking about and I. Think there are a lot of people listening that are like when you have an idea and you believe in that, we want to see it through and this is something that I think was trimmed out of the sunny mythology. So maybe you could take me through a little bit. I. Know You did some theater and then take me take me to La. Are. Actually like to dispel the idea. But I've carried for decades that you guys were literally just like I think we can do this and you must have had a gangbusters bitch. You were working and you you had a time in your life where you were grinding. Yes. So. So. I went to college than it was at the Williamstown. Theatre Festival alive. Then I got an agent through that and I was in a great group of actors. There was myself in Sterling Brown Jimmy Simpson Kathryn Hahn. Be, just. The talent was incredible. And sort of boot camp for acted and you really learn. Okay. How do I? How do I shine in audition? How do I? How do you find that? Now? I'm just thinking about someone listening and they're like, well, that's incredible. How do I get a boot camp somebody had? It was a guy in my college who was a you know a guy who's thirty in college. On there, and he knew that I wanted to be an actor and he said you should check out this summer Vita festival and it's it's a really sort of prestigious one. In the first year I went that I just emptied trash cans and build sets, mason a line in the play, and then I kept auditioning and they had a program that I kept getting back in this. Great. This is the other side I love that stuff. But this is what crashing was about I was like the part. That's the montage. Yeah. Charlie sweeping is sort of the most interesting thing because to me, it's like it's like pulling back the bow, we all love the Arrow sailing through. Yeah. But you're you had. Even. Though you were three, we're getting to that later. But confident guys the believed that you had talent and thought you had something to offer. There was also some humility i. know we sound like old men, but I love stories of like you weren't entitled. You're like I'll take out the fucking trash oh. Yeah. I mean? Like I. Lived in new. York in a basement apartment didn't answer phones an waited tables and did the whole thing and then. By fourth summer or my third summer at that festival, a got an agent, some dominated play and said, hey I'll sign you. and. Then it started making money doing commercials. I did a lot of. Commercials in, you know the occasional like a few lines on law and order. Now. The. New York Grind. I did that too. Did you go to house? Did House exist when you were there? Now, I think I had laughed right around one house. I'd just think you and I were living that same life where like I can't walk around New York to this day without pointing out to val where the casting offices are and. This is where I almost got. Sharman. I, Miss that excitement just. You know just felt like, Hey, I can. I can make it be an actor. You know I someone wants to be my agent. And all these plays now and What am I I think. Don't think qualities is I've always really felt. Good about what was happening? Done like two commercials I was like I'm a success. You know. I had that too I. It's a good way to be I. Know People that are happy, and then sometimes I have to tell them look at all the things you've done. No To be nostalgic. Walla tap is like a huge life hack, not just for life, not just for show business, but for life. But specifically, for show business, I, remember calling my brother from an an ad place. I, could take you there I. think it's on twin nineteenth street or something. Anyway. I just told my brother that I was taking a commercial acting class. And I was over the moon that I was in a commercial acting class. I, know that sounds like Ni- naive ninety. But I was like I was doing a standup and there were other things happening and he was also just so impressed. I still remember I'm embarrassed that I remembered. But he I do a good impression. My rather goes. You're slow in the process of becoming the man dude. In that. that. Blind sort of like yellow shirt optimism. I. I'm with you. I think you. aspired. Needed to make it in this business. Yeah. You, you you know you gotTa, you gotta be able to believe you. Can you know? Make. Something out of nothing. Yeah, and. And you gotta you gotTa. Kinda Grind 'cause, right? When. I'm with you taking the train. Sorry. I'm still slowing you down on this. But taking remember a Tuesday and you had an additional eleven and you had an addition, it's three and that was your day. Yeah. and. That was like a great day. Big Day out of. The net. And, I, worked at like you know if I had a Decision commercial thing. But if I had a scripted audition I worked shit. I was always completely off book while you know. because. I always figured. That's. I it's my chance to perform it. So you know if they see they like it. So. hoagie. Only Hales said on this podcast something I think you'll still find valuable although I haven't. I'm saying this because it's awesome. I have to think you probably your past edition Ingrid things but he said. I used to love auditioning because it was the time where it was mine. It was all like no one. Even tell you how to do And to this day I, still read for things. and. I'm like this is my time to do it. My way it'll change, it'll be rewritten. You'll be directed. You'll be edited. But in that audition, you can enjoy it and that's the same thing we're talking about. That's a motherfucker that was like I can't believe I get to act today like. That's something you can't fake Tony was does around in those New York days. At accused, he was buddies with my roommate Jimmy. Simpson together. and. So yes. So just was years of that and I didn't have to have a day job making enough money doing a commercial or something here. They're. To. Pay. Rent. Was Your I do remember my first commercial? Yeah. These a footlocker commercial. We were you in the. Jersey. First. Big. One is did cascade commercial where I was like a college graduated I was saying I was GONNA retire. added. Something to do with how the the cascade works but. That's. Enough money like that and. You I. Think I've made like. Ten Thousand Dollars which for a twenty. Three year old or twenty, four year old like this huge. Yeah. And then. And then. You know I was just doing the New York academic and taking it very seriously definitely trying to. Omega idolized Sam Rockwell. I knew all his like indie films and you're the same rockwell quality. I've never really thought of because I was like he reminded me of me in a way where I thought. Okay. There's a guy who's lasts is you know you're not Tom Cruise, right? You're. You're like, I'm not Brad Pitt Tom Cruise. So what am I? I'm John, Ritter. When I saw John Ritter was like I and this is before I grew up to look So much like I, know his his his wife now. Not Well. But like I've met her a few times and she she's like you look so much like I'm like. Of. Course like he was my Avatar, he was the guy that you saw on the screen. That you were like this. This is me and you do have that and I love Samdrup Jews. He is the best. The just watched What's galaxy quest for the first time? In the corner thing? This is how I fell in love San Rocco. So Sterling. K. Brown and I were We went to go see galaxy quest. and. You. Loved it. I didn't know San Rocco yet, and he so great it. And then we snuck into the Green Mile after memory when he's feeling. Better and watch the Green Mile and it was about you know ten fifteen minutes into Santa Performance I realized it was the same actor. And I. Went down to local video store. You know the H.. ACID. Bobby. My. Lawn. Dogs at the. Sundance movies, and you probably had to talk to the cleric Lake something else. That's. Absurd. Cuban being in an open unbuttoned flannel shirt and it's disinterest look on their face. But a love of film I, know again, I feel like an old man, but like the way that when I went to. A hardware store as a kid I felt like all of the hardware store employees were experts in hardware, and now I feel like we've sort of lost that art. If you've been to hardware store late like it's just a bunch of people that will google things for you now. With the video store, the video store that I used to go to in Chicago is called Darkstar video and that dude would recommend. Like you know he'd be like, have you seen my dinner with Andre or something that you never would've watched and you're like Oh, my God I'm getting school class from this guy. shorted my acting education, which is like. I mean, aside, Williamstown experienced few college classes. I would just go rent movies with. Actors I admired. You know your Hunter Watch. Anything on. Penn? Did ever. and. Just try to try to learn their moves and then At. Definitely would that was the goal for me was to be much more of that type of an actor although I liked. Acting enough that it'd be like, please put me in a Sitcom, whatever just WANNA work. But I couldn't get around. I. Couldn't get arrested in college. Yeah, I was playing like the junky younger brother in third. Watch, of one of the cops. Occurring role I had and. I just I. I can do the commercials I guess, but I just couldn't cook a Sitcom or even a comedy part in a movie. So, interesting and seeing as our conversation started. You have comedy voice. I. Think you know that because you lean into it. There's something just really funny about the way you put sentences, sentences together. You're funny when you get worked up all of this is a compliment by the way. was completely unaware of it. What I'm getting worked up in a scene, you're just getting work done. Just getting worked up in a scene. I. Just happened to sound like a ridiculous human being is so good though it's Jhangvi -able. I mean I think I. Think it's something to be very a proud of unhappy, but that's just naturally how you sound. I'm grateful now that I uh Rear. But that that's so amazing. I'm with you on Sam Rockwell too because I watched there's A. I think it's called I forget what is called, but there's a documentary about galaxy quest that we watched after we watch galaxy quest and they talk specifically about how Sam Rockwell was about to break like he. He didn't really have a break I. I'm pretty sure until then and he had the green mile coming out. Yeah. Everybody was sort of concerned that here's the sort of they didn't know what was going to happen with quest ended up finding this cult following, but they're like Oh my God. There's this like very, it's the same thing with Alan. Alan Rickman, there's this very a serious actor. Is he going to do it like an? Is he going to give it life to put himself behind it and he commits I? Think that's that's the genius of him. In that movies. You're like this guy is not. There's not even a hint of I can't believe I'm in a no disrespected. Tim Allen, but he could have been like I. Don't want to be in the Tim Allen Comedy Right now, but he did he just takes the acting very seriously. I think that was just such a good. Lesson for me as a young actor to do that whether it was a comedy or drama didn't really matter. You gotta play everything like at the drought. Yeah. And you know. Hopefully, the lines are funny when it's a comedy, this timing things, of course with comedy but. And so you don't Su Jimmy Simpson, I lived make all these funny home videos at our apartment in this pre youtube. So these are just for us we. Did that too. Yeah, and. Edited in camera like you'd just be rewinding it and then try deposit on the cut point. Watch it. Yeah Yeah, yeah and the camera. There is a, there's a great movie called safe men that San Rockwell Steve Zahn Paul Giamati Zenit John Hamburg road at a comedy stage crackers. Seem. So funny in that movie in such a subtle way and a lot of there seems because they were saved crackers whispering in the scenes now. And hoping be will think of me a whisper but I'm. Like you know Jimmy and play with that. We could shoot things and we would act out the scenes in trice and really smaller. You know subtler kind of ways of going up comedy and just. It was just such a great way to learn how to do it, and then you're seeing yourself. And you're getting used to look. You know how you sound. But isn't that what we were talking about earlier to is that the situation cracking a safe is a quiet situation explaining, Chicago, in my apartment is a funnier place to Fart, right? Yeah. Yeah. Then add Chili Festival. Like you you were learning. Oh comedy doesn't have to be. And it can be cracking a safe I. Mean. This was Tarantino were similar age when we saw pulp fiction and it's two hitman talking about what they call a quarter pounder. You're like this is funny and it's funny for the same thing we've always done in comedy is because you're betraying type or you're you're you're having a conversation, you shouldn't be having while you crack a safe or your your cold blooded hitman and you're talking about, McDonalds, like there's something funny about situations, and then the actors can play it as real as they want as long as the material is good. And I liked both both styles comedy to because then I love Chris Farley and yeah. I mean, when you saw eastern Tura at high school did not blow your mind wide open of course, and so I remember seeing the preview for Ace Ventura, and now I was already like I, it was like seeing my life. Like? Oh, there's a grownup person because he seemed like such a grownup. Now, you watch these educated. You're like, that's what the what I WANNA do. That's what I was doing in those videos that we were editing in the camera. I'm with you. No disrespect to stuff because when we started talking I've told you that we watched the day man episode. Over and over and over, and if I brought valley and here she could sing I'm going to call it an Aria as you're being lower. Charlie I. Really Hope this can get in your heart because you should feel i. hope you feel good. We rewound. It's like But there's a part where your voice cracks go. Kind of cross that threshold that boys have in their vocal register. But you do it. I'm surprised. I knew it. But I I shouldn't be because we watch it so many times and it's pretty good. You rewound it. Over and over and over and. Not. Fifteen times and it's fucking. Homeland areas every time and it's what we're talking about you found. The most heightened you invited the girl you like to play play is a great place for labs, which is why that episode great is. There's tension I was just talking about why is the office you talked about Ricky, office, and the office in general is so funny is because there's a certain way you're supposed to behave in office, and there's a certain way you're supposed to behave in a theater show and you're betraying it and you're even betraying your own show and I got off into fan town, but it's just like so that's as to me. That's so fucking. We'll speak to that to that moment in in that. You know I think I. Look I owe a lot of that show to all those movies that I was just devouring as a young man. So that dropping down on the sun. That's that's John Brennan tweet lowdown. The Great. Scene where he's terrified. He's come up with this great idea that he's going to descend on this moon and but then he he he is terrified about it. The way he actually gets up quite Larry's Nah. You can buy characters make up in that. That will that's waiting for Guffman. Don't just that. That heavy eyeliner. That S yes. Totally made up certain stage by. So you're definitely. Influenced, the way you know all all the if you try to watch good movies I am. Friends. I. Know that love to watch really bad movies and I. Don't WanNa Watch. Bad Movie. Movies. Sometimes watch bad move, but I understand. Will will pay off and you're trying to make something that's going to resonate. Will Are you familiar? There's you look it up on Youtube Jim Carey's like I'm pretty. It's like it's the thrusting of the hips and and I'm not sure if it's like all righty then, but there's he has been open about that. He got those moves from something. It's another monty python type thing. Forgive me, I'm not I'm not living up to my comedy duties, but he's like if you watch, you're like, oh, he got that sort of like is your number still none one sorta thing from this guy and he's on this is not me pulling the sheet off? He's been open about it he did. Get something from somebody. Yes. Everybody in. It's the Picasso, great, Artists Steal. But when we say steel, we don't. It's so interesting. I always think of it as a blender. Put, enough influences in and blend net. Your Voice, it's so strange will kind of come out through that blending process like the your Eunice will be expressed. Through your influences there've been times when I'm sure you have to where I watched somebody. I'm like, Oh, I think I'm an influence on this guy, and you don't get mad you go like, yeah, I was doing Brian Regan for ten years and Seinfeld and all these Steve Martin and that, and that was in my blender and and then. Ask. Certain point you do it long enough something. There's a birth thing, and now you sound like Charlie deck even though you were doing these other things. Yeah. Never did stand. But I imagine specifically in stand that there's a lot of that right, which is that you have to try everyone style before you find your own Dude I. Wonder if I'll blow your mind I, realize this podcast, fat guy. Little. Code. Who does that sound like it's Bill Murray. Hey Sing like Bill Murray. That's not the put it down. That's to say everybody's doing it. So like your point, two young creatives listening to me, keep feeding yourself good shit. Oh. Yeah. Absolutely. Just devour everything. I'm Kinda. Mad At myself. slowed a little bit in i. need to I, need to re up my watching things. Being apparent that slows it down, but let me keep going the. Disease. So it's in this time in New York and making the movies, Jimmy. David Hornsby. Who's big writer contributor actor on Sunny. That I get out to test for a pilot. In La. And on the plane, need a young man name, Rob mcilhenny and. Hype. and. It's the kind of thing where you're both in the airport, like that guy looks like an actor. Actor. Like who else are they flying out to test. Right? Odd. And so. I I don't know who introduced to but got talking and started hanging out I. Think I actually, he had rented a car. So I hitched a ride within the dish everything. Was He testing for the same show we were testing for part. Get the fuck out. That is one of my favorite La Cliches 'cause like we were saying you have to learn to enjoy these things when you're walking into a building and I see another tall lanky as goofy motherfucker. I'm like I like it sometimes I get the feeling. They don't like it, but I'm like you're reading for Stu. Aren't you I? Think it's so funny. But there's a bunch of people that look the same yeah I now and so. Well, so we we went and we both read for the part, but they pulled the plug on the pilot like that day. Second time in a row would happen to me like Robert Remember being really upset about it and I was like, this is what happens. They fly out in, cancel the pilot. But, then we just became buddies. And start hanging out in? New. York, a little bit. Did you sit together on the plane I'm sorry to keep slowing you down, but like I'm like. The long flight, I don't think we sat together I. Think we had different. You really bonded on the ride and maybe at the audition and. We're like, what was it? Do you remember because this is such a classic I mean as a history-making meeting. was there a moment where you were like? This is my kind of motherfucker writer. Not Remember one, but I mean I, think I was. Always, a genuinely sorta affable guy and and. I think at that age too. I was into just meeting whoever you now I wear. I wanted to know more people make more friends. And I imagine round was found in the same way. So. Or who knows, maybe we just had a you're bringing me back. You're being too when we used to commercial audition and if there was another actor. I still get juice just meeting another comedian. Even if I don't know anything about them, I'm just like. And, I've been doing a twenty years. I'm still kind of five. It's like one of the reasons I loved running into you. At that party I was like, this is fine. I WANNA talk to. Some of it. But when we were young men when we were in our twenties, it was like Holy Shit another one. So I, completely understand. Yeah, Eso. It was unreal like a hey, you're you know. We're in the same boat in an ADENOID. probably exchanged home phone numbers. I, Don. Now gives maybe I gave him my Did you a thing where was like your phone number and you check the pay phone? It was like a etc service. So answering machine. Dunno must have been computer somewhere, but I would like. You know pony order to pay phone and dial this number, and it was like my personal answering machine, an answering service. Doesn't have that in swingers. I feel like that was that was of a time when it was like call my service, you'd give out your number for your circle. Yeah, origin. Banks. and. The whole line was unreliable of yours. That crappy answering machine might break or a busy signal. Your roommate like a racist or whatever you know yeah yeah yeah. So I, don't know that we bonded and then. Now, the next step is to me, but I moved out to La. Forearm like maybe. Six months or year before him. And then he came out and. End We were continued the friendship out here and started filming a few things together because he knew I was still doing stuff with Jimmy. Jimmy, moved out here and I moved in with him out here. And we just made a few funny videos was writing a lot. So we would do readings of his. Movies writings for serious movies and things. Ownership what fun. Yeah. And then we just kind of hanging out being young guys hanging out. and. I remember this specifically I I had a great gig as the voice of the independent film channel for years. So for many years, those are sweet gigs. Oh, buddy. It was very sweet. In fact, I almost turned it down because I had a callback for the movie eight mile. The EMINEM. and. It was such a big deal for me. and. The commercial agent said Yeah. But you gotta go take this recording GIG and I said. You know this is a Curtis Hanson, film? You know they they really like me now in. The late management was the casting director and she was like really on my side a lot and. And the guys like, no you. You might make like eighty this year. So okay. Kyle. Kinane is the voice of Comedy Central and I. I don't know this from Kyle, but I feel like first hand. But I'm always like if you can just be recurring. Voiceover in a thing I mean, just the the quantity of things you'll be attached to. Oh, it was awesome. So for three years. You know I don't know exactly how much it made with taxes or whatever, but it was just it was great and it's like A. Rob Office, he was waiting tables and come to my apartment. I'd have a pile of cash. Jackson? My. Isn't. Schwartzman. In funny people. Terrible. Man. I'm my privilege. I mean, look at this. Golden Boys for you know. As say a little bit of rasp industry loves the little RASP. That was the only voiceover. GIG? I. Hadn't many years I didn't do another one. But and. This time I've never get one randomly. The independent film channel wanted to sort of offbeat voice in. But Then I remember as recording one of those met rob for like coffee across the street. And we just hanging out had a conversation we were saying, you know we really should just try to make our own show. We try to make our own thing was, what was the spirit of that? Was it frustration that Moore wasn't happening or was it just kind of like wild eyed wide eyed sort of like we can do whatever we want. This is our time. It was it was that we can do whatever. I walk like I have a lot of that rob has that states. which is I have a lot of like, Hey, I, WanNa do something put together. Rob. Is it more than anyone I've ever met and? Just. Like that sort of like, go get him. I WANNA go make a big thing. At the time, just a conversation and then. Passed I wound up getting a job in the Luis Guzman shows a will gluck show. And the end we did like thirteen episodes in. And I remember thinking after that. Okay. I, really really would want to do something robin been off. I. Didn't know this working with Glenn. And they've been developing script for the pilot. and they came to me and they said look I'm probably made the correctly. Maybe forgetting details maybe started with just wrote a scene and I said Hey, let's do this funny scene about someone comes to someone's house. At just want sugar. Glenn comes to my house and then. I tell them that kids are, and then he's like, okay. How do I get out of the apartment and how do I also get the sugar? Ha. What a perfect little snapshot experiment of Like I think. That becomes sort of the tone of the show. It was. Yeah. It was the it was the DNA for what the show. and. You know shot bad in, it was really sunny and then. Sarah developed full length pilot and they. decided to shoot it together. And so we shot entire version of the pilot. Ourselves does with cameras. Like. Panasonic DX one, hundred I, remember with cameras because I wound up buying one my IFC money. I. Think it was like two thousand dollars. It was a great investment. And we. Who in the group knew about? And shooting, and cameras I mean, was it just you guys enthusiasts? I. Think they're. Fran, around Glenn at a friend who helped us with the very first one. I think and he knew a little bit about the camera and showed us. and then. We didn't know much against life the lighting. Look. Great. At the way. We knew enough intuitively to not screw the angles up. But we just cross covered everything, which is that you know. But. You knew to do that. I? Mean that that's not beginner stuff. I do want to give another shout out there. So many youtube channels I feel like this is right up your alley. You can go down a worm hall on Youtube for three hours and I swear it's a year of film school I. Just it is like now watching and I didn't direct crashing. But you know when you're the writer Creator, you're sort of involved. You were the same hats director, where begs right? You picking the props? You choosing the location, you're casting the show. You're giving actors, Direction. You right everything except where the camera goes. That's right and he. Moved the camera. If you don't like where the director, that's true, that's what they say. TV is the Writers Medium and film directors medium, but so I also got to observe all these directors. So I'm saying from that whatever authority that gives me that these youtube videos that I watch about crossovers analyze scenes like seen breakdowns. Look at how they cross the line here. I. Sort of learned a lot of that stuff after I made TV watching youtube videos. So when you when you talk about cross coverage being young men knowing while we want to like. It. Seems like a bad move especially in a comedy. Judge Judge, there's a lot of cross coverage to 'cause you WanNa get the riffs you want. The real reactions to bring people in who might not know we're talking about if I shoot a scene and I should all your parts and I'm off camera and then we turn around and shoot all my parts. It's not going to have the same music as if we were getting both at the same time. Right, that's right, which is what you did. So I think maybe we'd. Got, sort of feeling from the offense, the British office and maybe curb your enthusiasm edit was hand-held and we knew we knew he could do that. We knew we didn't need Dali's all sorts of things. You know we had a cheap boom to cameras. And like a guy who knew about like white balancing or something, but I don't think we ever properly didn't. Answer the first one was shot. Was Okay not great, and so we tossed it. the Fuck Outta. I. Love this story with I'm about I, I. Love You guys were like, let's do something and then you're like, let's just shoot it. I mean like I feel like that force. Is. Why you guys are so successful and so good, and I can't I'm sorry to slow it down I. Just WanNa save read you hated the first one and you threw it away and like whatever that is, that is the glue that holds together. The LEGO death star of your dream is the instinct ago. I think this sucks. and. Unfortunately I have that in spades and it's a curse, which is like nothing is ever good enough. Really, well, ever good enough I pretty much feel at the end of every sunny so that we blew it. Moosh it, and it takes me about a year to be like, this is actually GonNa Fun, and then I love it. Yeah. But in the moment that always striving for something I, can never achieve terrible. I'm reading this. It's called the good neighbor. It's the Mister Rogers biography and believe it or not. He was the same way he'd stopped production on this pretty. Pretty. Low budget show to like, consult and re writing, and so I was just like I love knowing that even something like sunny. Mister Rogers Mister Rogers feels Albright an easy and like we're just having fun with puppets and your show does I mean this is a common feel like funny people fucking around underneath that is we're throwing this pilot away and A certain. I see two energies, right. You have the Charlie Day. That's like I can't believe I'm an actor. I can't believe you're an actor. Let's be friends. This is amazing. I think it was good I. Think I'm great. I'm GonNa prep this addition because I want to be excellent, and then there's this part that I think you also need the Yang of that which is like I think this might suck because. If you have that, then you're going to just show everyone crap unless you just happen to be a genius guess not. I mean, and I don't remember if it was me or WHO's Rider Glenn? WHO's all collectively? Just we just knew it was off. We. We knew it wasn't so much crap that we were like, Hey, let's never tried to make a show again like there was enough there to be like. Okay. Almost. What's wrong? And then we did it again. the second time around we got in much better shape dot gus. We can actually show people this while. The quality of re shooting something, we did this. You know there's that doritos contest where you make a commercial for the Super Bowl, a lot of young filmmakers and stuff do that. We did that. One of the first year is me and Orrin McCarthy this sort of film group that we had, and we shot one and it was dorito Scotch was was the premise and it's every chip has the equivalent of a shot of Scotch and the guy gets drunk Mateus, and then we're like I think we should reshoot it. It's more Super Bowl Li to make it beer. This is. Is the same situation by by the way friends with cameras location that somebody lent us just just that that. That early energy that we habit you guys have, and we re shot it, and when we reshad it, we made it so much faster. We like every say everything faster because it's thirty seconds everything faster. So it was so much faster than we actually had time in the commercial. You know sometimes after the product screen, there's enough time for little tag a little NB. So it was ten times better for being reshot because we had the experience of watching it and going like. Why are we talking so slowly? Something when you're look like I I imagined. You know I imagine. Wes Anderson doesn't see get to the end moving be like. This like like there are certain people that they've got. Down there style so much and I don't feel that way about sunny. Now. I don't see Saudi Say Gosh. I. Wish we could read whole thing. When you're starting out and you're beginning and you're in that trial and error phase of of what is your voice and what a show is specifically show. Yeah. Just reduce something is. What. What got picked up. What was the difference? Did you rewrite or did you just chain do perform differently? I can't. Remember. It's so long ago I know forgive me this I. Just Watch an interview with David Foster Wallace where they're asking him about an infinite jest, and it's the most uncomfortable thing I've seen because he keeps going. It was. It was seven years ago and and he's sweating and like he can't remember. So I am not doing that yellow straight this when we shot that pilot was twenty, seven, forty, four. Yeah. I think one thing was not to discredit David Hornsby. But David Hornsby played round mcilhenny role. The first time we did it And was going to do it the second time as well. But. had take a trip to. The couldn't move without allergies should round. And it is Boy. It made more sense for WHO's writing for himself in a way yeah. Yeah. I love that. That's like that's like a falling in love story like there's so many things like that. I don't want to go into specifics for the same reason, because I, don't WanNa, hurt feelings. But there were there were many times. The many things that I've done were, what we wanted got shifted because of something like a trap or another job or somebody that we books we were really excited about couldn't do it, and then we're like we'll just give it to this prison, and then it's like it couldn't have been anybody else couldn't have been Al. Pacino, like this is perfect. And that sort of providence stories like desert are dripping with that and I. I. Love It. I'm not surprised but I love it. Yeah. No. Apart, they could mean, who knows you know that's A. Are Meant to be a certain way by David Hornsby you know he plays a character called Ricky cricket. Our show starts out as a uptight priest is in love with D. in that, he just slowly devolves or very season. I was just watching the the state of Virginia. I was just watching man, that's what I said he deterred. and. And he's written on every season of the show to, and he'll land world-class ready starring on our apple show that we have a committee quest. Okay. Dealing with aggressor involved in that, I was involved in the writing of the pilot and then haven't been involved since that. So. I. Think a pop in the editing room twice to be like I like it looks really good. That's great. That's that's all Megan's Dan Hornsby and routed. They're just knocking out of the park. That's great. I didn't know was Meghan. Meghan is a friend of mine She's wonderful. She's brilliant. Anyway. So after we shot that, we had sent it to our agents and. 'cause think like we were. We were all represented at three arts entertainment which a great management company We were all at WMA. Like just three guys in the middle of nowhere we had access to. To get in the right hands and they like the idea that they were gonNA. Set up meetings to pitch it. and. then. Just. Months went by accident waiting to have a meeting with like big producers. Think we've met with. We were supposed to meet with John Fabra, but it just kept getting put off, put off but. You Know I. Love Jon Favreau, but I'm also really glad I. Don't cut him a check every week. Isn't it interesting? One of those moments where you realize. May like you didn't know that you could do it on your own until you add to sort of thing. Oh, yeah. No, I did. Yeah. And then. While we were waiting. We shot up second episode. So. I, love the story. This is what I miss man. I miss this especially because we're all inside these stories of just the wild west of like we're going to make another one I fuck in. Love it because it's not, let's make a show to be rich or famous. It's like we it's something that was waking you up at night. You know what? I mean. It's something that you needed to do, and that's fucking I. can't get enough of that out there the cycle and the second one was really funny and I believe it was the second one that. Rob took around town for the pitch meetings. Get Out loud, and we decided that we wouldn't go to the pitch because we were so green and had been in the before was just like. He's just the nation in that way. And he I think he wanted to like to be the guy and so he took that episode. and. Pitched it I mean, we pitched it everywhere, but you know what? Muslims were going by, we weren't getting these meetings with producers. And I think. We threatened although. It's funny looking back as the agencies will with you guys, but we like threaten to fire the agents. Take the pilot like, CNA, I. have been robbed maybe the code. There was a coup and that's when the meetings got said like, okay. We'll set on his meetings up and then I think we. said. We're giving you a real budget to shoot a real pilot were. There are a lot of steps forward even. Came to the air. So then we shot another pilot of sort of a hybrid of the two episodes. and. That one I think we have like a real budget of like two hundred, thousand dollars was nothing much, but it was enough to. Make It, look. Okay. and. And then they picked it up for seven episodes. Wow. There's so much so much unpacking so much that I love about it again, just stand on its own, I could just be like what was Rhode Island like but. I I was the best I know I know where you're from I would've said about anything I lost my virginity in Rhode Island Providence. Still there after go get. Okay, that is a dumb as. Bad. As joke, and I love it and I'm feeling the shame, and that's what it is to be alive. Say. Do Nine jokes in my head, and I was like now A. Travel. My God of course, I now know the jokes. Yeah There's too many jokes. Zero refers blow job is the setup, and then there's a million watch the sopranos. If you want to hear the punchline gives their jokes. About a bang I just to relate because I wanNA talk about the energy behind this. It's so helpful to people that are creative in whatever field they are just being creative in life. I wrote the pilot for crashing, and then in that interim which you and I both know talking about bad jokes but I find it helpful to remember that show business slow business I know that stupid. But I'm not trying to be funny. It's really helpful to remember. You can be on such a fast track I was like you guys shot something talk about a fast-track. You have it. Here it is. You'd think you'd be like, okay. Can we start you probably as young men even been like we might be shooting this this summer? Like, should we look for director like I? Love getting ahead of myself? With crashing I was like we got Jed. And this is after HBO. No they didn't they. We hadn't pitched yet, but we were setting up pitches and he had the pilot and I just had a month, the just kind of waiting around for things to happen. And I wrote. I wrote five episodes per judd's requests. He was like just write another one, and then he was just write another one and just write another one. So we wrote five can come to find out years later. HBO picked up the show and then I found out that they were like we didn't even get it until we read the second. So something like if we just been like all right though setup, the pitches will wait a couple of months. It probably wouldn't have happened because. The whole like. You're with a different person being needed to be illustrated and they were like, okay, we got it and then I like telling this not that it's all about money, but they retroactively bought the scripts that we never shot them. But they were like amy, Schumer Scripts, all these guests I don't know if we could get, but they bought them. So it was like. The. Stuff that you're doing just because it's written on your heart to do ends up. Being bought, there's something that feels very satisfying about like to reward that sort of. Enthusiasm. Yeah. Well, it takes that enthusiasm, but you're right. It takes two things move. So slowly and you want to think that they move quick and crazy things happen in maybe for like just an acting situation. Yes, things can move quick. You can do audition. Next thing you know you're moving moves big hit. Your career is taking off the that has happened for people I'm sure. But even even that audition by the time they got into was was years and years and years. Set up and the that's right. Especially, if you're talking about making something selling something convincing anyone to make anything, it's very difficult to do. You. Think. By the way that apple show. that. Like Robin I. So we had a little time between seasons and rob had gone up to video game company and said Hey. This isn't really funny world. Would you be interested in writing a show? Man Said, yeah, I think I give run show. All right. And You know we wrote the we wrote them pilot fairly quickly But. In hitching it around town, we didn't get a lot of bites. Including and I mean. I. Don't mean to bite the hand that feeds me, but like you know affects passed on it. And you would think. That a workplace comedy. From the two guys that have brought you in arguably your longest running most successful show about nine. Maybe the most successful I don't know I don't know the economics and business the certainly the long run. Yes. You would think that a workplace comedy is safe bet. You know everyone has Different agendas in different tastes, and it's very, also very heartache. Convince someone what is in your head or even on the page y'all look like right, and so that's why I think. Not only is it takes a lot of time, but it's it's hard to convince people. What, something can beat which why we shot sunny originally because when you can actually see. There's a lot less explaining to what it's GonNa be. But of course, the risk then is any. You could show it to my mother and she would know if it works or not. You know like to a certain extent. Yeah. So like you're you're putting your tripling down and going like this is what it is. But if they really know what it is, it also makes it easier to say, no, well depends on the thing you're making. Right. So if you're making a workplace comedy remaking budget people in an apartment or something, then you probably can pull that off if you if you are making a inner space comedy then yeah, he probably WanNa. Shoot yourself or. Quest. We watched the pilot. I. Thought the pilot was great. By the way I have the same card to play where it's like. It's really hard to. Have a joke about people say like, have you seen mythic questioning? What do I work for the TV like I'm sorry. I get to it. But that some times how I feel. But I thought it was great and and I don't normally necessarily notice things like this I was like this is a high budget, Joe, the game. Like I play games and I was like this whole thing if the game looks stupid, yeah, everybody's out. Everybody is completely like. Is that a to interview you about mythic West. Maybe that's not were you WanNa talk about, but it's like. Where did the game come from? was that developed for the show? And like I said, I'm not totally on the incentive of how they pulled everything off. But So. We had a partner new this off, which is where rob had gone to huge games of. Yeah. So I'm pretty sure that they helped create the animation for the little pieces of the game that you see in the show. So we had an actual video game company. Know. Of course, but it's not I. Mean just a complement to the show again. We'll get back to your yours world. I'm watching it like it wasn't just like. You see the title screen, you see like game play, and I'm like really watching it with the lens having played assassin's creed them like. Are they just repurposing shit and it looks really really good. They end the end. The sat looks great and I was like this is a high budget show Yes. A legit. Naked stronger to. Go Out of ROB. Record one. At, that his sister Katie wrote Six episode edits like a flashback to the. With the Jake. Johnson. This is the one I'm friends with. Dana. WHO's at Apple? WHO's a friend of mine, and she was like you gotTa. Watch that episode. That was the one that you. They're very proud of that episode. One anyways. That's great. You know. Let's just talk about that for nine hours, Jacob. I want to know a little bit about what you've learned. From the beginning to now, when it comes to the day to day the running it, the writing it, there have to be huge mistakes and stuff his what I, what I'm always fascinated with to give you a little context of why I want to know this is you take people who are artists and Chris. Rock I've said there's a million, he's like giving a comedian. A show is like giving a waiter. Waiter a restaurant like, why would a waiter know how to run a restaurant yet? We're doing that. You take a Sam Rockwell enthusiast who loves acting loves the CRAP loves writing. You're good at all, and then you're like, okay, welcome to and I don't mean grind in a bad way. But welcome to a timetable. Welcome to Monday Monday morning. Welcome to deadlines. Welcome to notes. Welcome to edits. Welcome to you gotTA. My friend. Tommy. WHO's a CEO or CFO? I? Don't even know CEO see he. Knows what? He's a high up in the business world and I was like Dude, next show that I do I'm GonNa talk to you, and I wanna read some books on business management when it comes to like incentivizing writers. Giving them a sense of ownership over the show giving them a sense of place and belonging and structure. All these things that like we need, you had to learn how to do that. The sunny have like a traditional rumor you running the room. Yeah. So we have traditional room than rob and myself and. Megan Ganz David. Hornsby. Run it at this point and I mean. In terms of how to do it, it's different for right in. It's it's changed through the years and I think it starts. Okay. Be a decent human being like I. Don't know. I can't speak for other people. I think people have worked on our show for so long and stay with us because we created or at least try to create a good work environment. Don't be an asshole. You're just making a TV show star start with right. Then people don't dread going to work. So that's probably certainly if you're running a comedy I think that's helpful. I Megan. Obviously had lots of horror stories. About. During writing rooms in I know she is really enjoyed working on Sunday. But mostly I think. It's it's interesting where. I just written directed movie that just sort of finishing up. As a very different thing because. What's great about TV is you have. Others voices, you have that team of writers. You have I have Robin Glen Mcginn argue about what's the best way to do something? Now. You also have that on a movie. You know you have your editor, you have your caution designer, you have a producer but. It's intelligence really a great sort of almost team. Atmosphere? Like. Here, WE ARE PACA writers. We have this mission you know have to make. We don't do that many ten episodes. Right? We're going to break it up in the first five and then the second five. Annual spend the first. Few weeks, just talking about general story ideas you know. Some might say Waterpark, right? Okay. Yeah. Where is it going? Will break the rooms up. and. We'll. Talk about that and then? Why do you break up? You want it's almost like splitting up witnesses or suspects who crime he wants them to each develop their own story you want. For Time so for. Yeah. So we'll get to two different rooms working two different stories because we gotta. We gotta get him gone. earned. The earlier days of doing rob and I would be in one room of the glands, well, the whole time or actually we would all. All in the same room at the same time, then we started breaking the two rooms than we. And then. Now. We have. David. Run the room and or Meghan Meghan run the other room, and Robin I will be we ragnar script writing script from scratch. Are they long days? Are you are you alike, let's grind and stay for dinner Kinda, room, or you know. I love it. My whole thing 'cause I was on, I wrote on some shows. They were great shows would stay for dinner and they'd always be not often. But there would always be a nagging voice where I was like. This about SNL, it's like SNL. Could be nine to five. You don't have to write from eight PM. Like, you don't have to let me ask you this because sunshine. You you might have to because if it's if it's a network show and you've gone and like a so I written a multi-candidate did one season of it called the cool kids and now now. and. Wasn't able to be there the whole time pilot pilot, but like shot Around the pilot. But. Then what I would pop in when I was free to pop in. For a table, read at the network blow something up and you're shooting it on. Friday in front of a live audience than those guys did have to grind it out and of course of Korla. That's that's like a ticking clock, but I just thought it was it was when I was writing on a multi cam. Those were longer hours. Yeah. Tough. But was send. You know we're just trying to get it all written first so that we're not writing in our trailers while shooting, which inevitably happens with at least one scripts but. Yeah. So we get all about editor, a lot of what I would love you mentioned, wes. Anderson. The COEN brothers I so many of the people that I admire are the people that shoot like they. They story boarded out. They even know in no country. This is when the bullet hits the rear view mirror and excuse at this angle, and they know like, wow, that that sounds so cool to know exactly what you're going for. But when my heroes James, L. Brooks You know McKay. These guys seem to have an appreciation for like will do seventy, percent eighty percent. But then it's that twenty percent that year forced into that sort of makes the whole thing fertile. His at I sit unethically I like both so. You, know I am I shot the by moving much more like the way Conrad. In fact, they used their story board artist and throughout the entire movie before I even got that Oh Shit I. Know? Yet. Because Violence, again, I had here. He gave me the story boards asking now. I have the whole, the whole movie story out right here. My God. But and but that was essential for the fact. I was in every scene I I was in front of the camera lot and I wanted A. An I was doing it in such A. Comparatively. Achieved budget added budget, but comparatively cheap from what I am starting to pull off. I needed that plan now. Sunny. Are. Directors always come with a plan and it's great. But sometimes, you could just break. WE'RE GONNA move over here just rest. Very. Different. Look. In. Terms of the movies it doesn't really matter I mean. I love movies that are shot Loosey Goosey. I don't know conscripts as work that way where they're like. He's another one I. I watched an interview with Scorsese and I sent it to judd because I was like, this sounds like you which I think is funny I. Don't think people would necessarily be like Scorsese in Jed, but Scorsese Jeb. Where they're like. There's a certain. Gap In in the a free space to sort of figure it out as you're going PT. Anderson to I. I had a funny exchange with PD Anderson ones at Largo where I was. I knew about the master do. In Houston and you know the movie, the Master, of course. New about specifically the scene were walking jerks off on the beach. If you watch the movie, there's all this like Yeah. He was just nominated roll camera. And it's not quite that. But it was. He said an I. What makes it funny and it makes me the fool in this exchange Is that I I was like he said that was just walking being working like we just said, you're this guy. Like. Are you have you heard the theory that it's the ego and the superego Amy Adams is a superego. Phil, hopping is Ego and Joaquin is the head and he just didn't seem at all interested in that. He thought that was. So in the way of making a movie, like you can't think in those terms and I was like you know you have the the different Jerkov scenes. There's Joaquin who just jerks on the beach because he's he's like completely shameless, and then you have Phil Hoffman getting a hand job from Amy Adams in the bathroom. So there's these two very key one is like a shame. Jerk release into a sink, it's very jarring, and one is just what what Phil hopping admires. Sort of secretly about Joaquin, is that he's just an animal and just jerks off on the beach. So and so when he said that Joaquin was just improvising and they were just like we were just shooting whatever he did. and. It wasn't scripted that he jerked off I. Basically I was joking around, but I almost contested them. I was like that can't be because it was so perfect at one point. He went I've seen the movie like like he's like I, know what you mean. I. Mean Even now even if you have something really specifically tailored down to the T., you're still looking for little bursts of life. You know you're still looking for. I would say accidents but things things have come alive, right? Yeah. So I would imagine I've never imaginer. Even. Though you're being wordperfect and the shot is dialed in and deacons three, our lighting it or whatever. That they're still it'd be robotic, right. They're still looking for whatever pacing timing just gets that seeing that spark in. This just different ways to get it. You could be like, Hey, here are the here are the boundaries. And this is exactly what to do. Now, bring us to life, and then you gotta find that spontaneity within those boundaries. That's right for you. Give me like, Hey, here's a beautiful beach while game it. You're feeling Horny, go ahead and. We've got plenty of. The. Camera. Quick, because we're shooting fifty one meter and it's In my own defense, if you've seen that movie a thousand times which I have. It's like a silent movie. Obviously, it's a silent part of the movie. He is with the sand woman. He gets a look on his face, and then he goes off to the waves to to masturbate. It's so deliberate and it's so perfect. FEELS COEN brothers. That I can't believe it wasn't Coen brothers. So that's like it's like using chaos to look like a symphony instead of necessarily aiming for a specific infamy, they were doing it on the fly and I'm just blown away by that. It just seems like something that you would appreciate. What can you tell me about the movie? When when, when can people see this movie that you're working? Well, I. Don't know if people can see because I've got a little slow down by the pandemic. But I just finished a cut and actually I had Leslie Jones come on and finish the cut comanche, cut the master by the way speaking. No ship and the AD, some really great movies. The thin red line and Finding Century Women Punchdrunk love than inherent vice and she's She really had a great sort of the take on the film. And So it integrate now and I'm probably going to start taking it around town in the leading some of the streamers look at it because I think that's the world we're living in right now is going to go to the theater anytime soon. So right? Hopefully AL, get it. So the this month, and then if that's the case God willing. I said a little bit of the music to work on. So did you finance it like this wasn't something that you saw them in a studio. Said I got I got into bed. So. Okay. These guys. Are. Good. Reason partner guy named John Regard done horrible bosses in fistfight. He's been talking to me about the script for years and I'd always wanted to make it. But I I just haven't had the window and or wouldn't I couldn't find anyone sorta pony up for odd story and end. and. Let's go aggressively, try to find the financing. These guys, armory films, they did peanut butter, Falcon mudbound. And they got behind moving shot. A year ago. Okay, and Dan was cutting it. With my sunny editor Tim, Roach, and then I got a little slowdown by sunny. So I, had to deliver an episode of the Season Sunny. And then by the time, I, was getting back in the editing room. Manager head to do other job job, but I. Found Leslie and she's was genius Finally got into the right place, and now I'm just ready to take it out. What is the weird? You said a couple times a weird idea. Can you give us the General? It's I'd always wanted to make a movie like being there. So I'd sorta use that Model I. Don't know if you know Peter Sellers movie. I. Think that's dreads favorite movie by the way. I, really. Yeah. I mean, it's one of the best movies. So it's it's. Total. Buy This woman in East La and. She started telling the story of However father refers to everyone in this town of Los. Angeles, it's fools and. While it's happening, you meet my character and and he referred to me as the fool and you don't really and she didn't understand why. and. Anyway, I meet her in the get pulled into her world and. There's a incident where I I. AM working with her father and a producer thinks, Eh, just like this method actor who will come out of a trailer. Park. In Hollywood and death I, go through this sort of crazy rising fall but. but I don't speak speak iser. Silent silent character. which I think maybe part of the challenge sailing. But I'm really happy at I. Think it's it's released touching movie in And it's very funny in lots of places I. The cast. Is Amazing. You. Know I have. Were start. Ken. Jong. Common. Came back and sale John Malkovich eating. where? Adrian Brodie. Holy. Share it. Good for me. That's awesome. Fun for these guys because people as my character goes through world's people could kind of common shine and. Not have to be on set for an a shot in La. La. Yeah. That's awesome. What's it called? Just keep people can keep an eye out for whenever. It's called just fools go. Just fool's gold. Yeah. Working title was Tonka. Which means the full in. Spanish. But the. Area had changed the title, but I'm happy it's really A. Movie I was trying to make and. Challenge the hallway through I. Think next time. AGO FOR MORE OF LIKE A. Bigger budget but. By, the way I don't mean obliterated actually had a great budget, but it's a big story. There were like out locations and. Passions and Garrett goes I mean if you're going to recreate a Hollywood premiere or a major movie set, it's it's not cheap to shoot on a lot or yeah, you'd have. To really create the story the right way Serb Odyssey. It was challenging good for you man sometime off Mike I'd love to talk to you about how you balance that doing a show while making movie because I'd be fascinated by I. think that's a little too inside baseball. But next time I see I'M GONNA bend. Did the movie I stopped and I did the show and then it picked back. But still I mean just even you said window and you said it's so casually I was like that must be a big part of your reality is you have what you want, and then you need to find the time to do it while balancing your personal life and two things, it's very interesting to make. We can talk about that another time. I'd be remiss if we didn't at least touch on music because again I'm reading that Mister. Rogers thing. And they were talking about how important it was that he learned to play the piano and all that stuff. And I was like, of course, like I felt like a drippy idea. But I was like to a young person music sort of shows that the world is operating with a metronome whether or not. You know it, there's a timing to life, and then music teaches you to merge with it that you can then betray. You can play with it. You can manipulate it and you know where you could flow with it to create sound and I was like what? What a valuable thing to give children when you mentioned. By the way, my daughter's on almost two inch. You'll already sit at the piano and she knows well enough to play one key at a time, which is, makes me so excited aspects. And I take your little finger and i. have played a scale or something, and and she and I'll say, can you saying it just makes me? So thrilled she can do whatever she wants I'm just saying I loved I. I'd love her to grow up in a world where music instruments are toys. These are toys like we can. We can do this I. Think it's essential for children to be if they can introduced some kind of instrument, any kind of musical instrument. It's just a learning another language, right? I. Don't think you have to be able to read music. You know. Although I think it's great if you can. But. I just think just to be able to say, Hey, it's Katy goof around instrument. Then people get locked up right in this I, can't do that I get. Go pick up an instrument anthony. Is. Just another way to express yourself or justly meditate or hang out or bombs someone? Totally. So I think it's you know you. WanNa introduce your kid that, but the gives them what you just said to put it another way that I love the idea that it kind of gives confidence. A piano is Landau imposing and it's sort of embarrassing. What if I play? Wrong? What if it sounds bad. So it sort of teaches risk taking. I think in the same way that sports would I don't know. Know. If people are GonNa follow me there, but it's like shooting a basketball is a vulnerable thing in the same way that telling a joke is a vulnerable thing or hitting a key on a keyboard or doing a recital. But we WANNA learn to like take risks and that it's okay to fail and it's okay to be vulnerable in all this stuff. Visible thing, right? It's hard to get out the door and and put yourself out in the world. And you know I, think that's the problem. Is that people are? They feel so vulnerable that it comes out in ways that are unfriendly, but many the being you're having these conversations i. It's borderline risky these days. But like. You know and the. Same thing just. To get up there and singing venison. Someone is the most vulnerable thing you can do that. There's a reason that people respond to that so well. You know and it doesn't stop. Yeah. It's so. So we finally had a nanny, our nanny iris come over. because. We've been quarantining and everybody's taking super serious and we're like, I, think it's time I think you can come by just today, we'll try it. And to see my daughter who hasn't seen another person I, think as a father, you'll appreciate as she was just putting on a little bit of a show. She wouldn't let me put her in the stroller. She wanted to show Iris that she could pick. Danny Lyons and smell them just like the little things that she's able to do and I was like this is what show business is here are strangers. Here's the thing that I've done when I felt safe. Now I'm GonNa do it when I feel less safe to delight you I. I was like Whoa. This is really blowing my mind, but when you talked about timing and when I see your instagram fucking phenomenal, I know that sounds kind of hollow. But I really think they're special to blend really good music with comedy I, see the music in your acting I can feel someone who understands timing when to even the cadence of your voice when to be sharp. Not that you're thinking that way. But this is a funny time to sort of rest rest rest rest. Then the line. Oh Yeah. It's all music scene with making a piece of film. Or. Even a TV show like the editing when you're cutting it, you know. You obviously hope you have a great editor here she. Has. A great serve musicality to the editing, but you're also trying to match it to your musical tastes. So you're like in some fuels off, there's a timing. that. You know I think Robin Glenn Habit as well too I. Think Danny, Caitlyn I. Think it's helped. The show everyone has a little bit enough musicality the. Music I know. I. Think. That's forgive me for being leading. But I felt like we might agree on that. It is all music and even even sports is music. I was watching the Michael Jordan doggy series like all of us and was like there's music to this. This is it's all sort of like one. Thing, it's all creativity. It's all risk. It's all vulnerability. It's all conquering our fears and would you I even you could trace that down to our fear of life itself? Like you were saying, it's hard to leave the world, but music is taking all of that uncertainty and instead of freezing your dancing with it, you're you're participating with surfing his music. It's. It's the same sort of the rhythm of the waves and merging and using. When do I cut into when do I fall and all these different things. Everything is music, but I didn't I didn't I. Don't think I just wanted to mention that I. Don't think it's a mistake that you're so creative. You're so funny is such a great actor, the music. To be the. It's not a coincidence that those things are going. The same time was very nice. You say, I. Think Yemen musical upbringing was essential in that, and there is a point in my life where I wasn't sure if I wanted to pursue. Or disaster than. I enjoyed writing songs so much and. And I think I've gotten away from. Gun Away from. That outlet I think it was vulnerability I. Think it was A. Fear. Of. Failing. At Music Very, safe thing for me to write a funny song and Instagram and much less owner. Right. One. That's sort of sentimental, right? And I think it was the same but sort of pursuing music. I'm a son of two music teachers. So then it's like well. What failed music, you know. Whereas I think too I would just occasionally beat another guitar player because I started a guitar. I'm going to start a ban was a kid, but like. College Play More Guitar Piano. Not, a lot of a piano is leaning against a bonfire and. pull it out of the woods. Now, they were all stone baby grand. Teeth eight. One of the very likes dancing. But I I think. There was some fear to pursue music and still over. There is a piece me. Why wouldn't I ride it album just for people but. The block there I, do too. I did the simpsons. Voice on the simpsons for it doesn't matter and I had to sing in my real voice. Vow was with my wife Al and she. Always wants to get me to sing in my sincere voice, and I'm a guy i. think probably like you. They will do a lot of things for a laugh. But if you're just like get the guitar and Sing Amazing Grace in your most sincere like you're being good at singing voice, it's I. Think it's one of the few blocks I have, which is like I can't do it so. So, for that episode, I had to take amazing grace and I just sang it and she was like just so tickled, not laughing at me. But she was like I, heard you real voice, I heard your voice because I always want to go sad guy earlier. Same thing. Same thing. You want to put those walls up and keep yourself safe in its worst thing you can do for yourself. Is. Definitely, you can do when it comes to art you know. Trying to smash through that fear and just keep putting yourself out there. Yeah. Even, making this movie was very I was attached to it in a way that I was uncomfortable with. I need. Not. I need to separate the movie and my own sense of self were. Do I know I just told the story on another episode, but we just want release these for back to back where I pitched something, and my heart was just on the table that afterwards, I went into vow and I was like I have a vulnerability hangover. I feel so exposed. So fragile. That's what that's what I wanted to see because even your your your I'm sorry, you're saying, was it. Who was the the most confidence sunny voice you're saying? macanese. I'm sure even mcelhinney will do something like that, and there's a part of them. That's like, Oh, no, my throat is so exposed here. And someone could rip it out at and make me break my heart basically when you're when you're in the creative field, I feel like you're having all of these babies, all of these darlings, all of these love affair as and when other people get to like. Unfortunately or or just what we're doing. Leila is invested in what the nanny thinks of her flower picking and I'm invested in what the producers in the backers and the audience thing. There's a real. It's like what we were saying with you. You have the the happy go. Lucky Charlie, but you also have the hypercritical I have the like. Sell to quote Tommy Boy I'll sell a catch obstacle to a woman in white gloves. But what you don't see is after I do that pitch to the woman in white gloves even if she sells it if I sell it, I'll still be like am I am I F for? I, am I am I like nothing am I am am I an embarrassment? You're right. Yeah. Just a sprinkle. I got too bad. I'm glad I don't have that too bad I. got enough things. I don't need another one, but that's so funny. I wouldn't even say I have it as much as when you put yourself out. You just feel it. You feel it psychically. Oh. Sure. Something you care about. You, you give a baby bird in someone else's hands and you're like, please don't crush my bird. Well, the thing that's tough thing. About just our field sort of emotionally like a, you can be a professional golfer right, and if you shoot the low score for four days in a row, evil knowledge can say, Hey, I don't think you want. Like Maybe, this I don't think you're that great, but like, well, Y-. orborne. Scoreboard. Yeah. Scoreboard. You can make You know you can make. Whatever you can talk Sanderson people will be like the Master Saxon that you and I can both this. fucking. Immaculate. Yeah. I just saw the master on a list of most overrated or like not great. fucking. I would've. What are you? What are you? So you gotta just. It's almost impossible, but you have to remember gear Modell del Toro telling that once which. Doing Pacific. Rim. With him and he was saying he's like the thing is someone's GonNa. Let me someone's GonNa hate by moving has nothing I can do about it. Yeah. But it's hard to actually live that field. I think those are those guys that have a little bit of Stoicism I don't know. But. Like that idea that like you're doing it. I have this is on my posted on my computer at says commit to the work for its own sake. Because like I think there has to be something and then it's for joy I think joy is important. you know I, I, saw I'm sorry. What is it called me? It's not called fistfight. It's called. Despite all I'm sorry, it's called fistfight this. Saw It in the theater it created joy and I? Don't think that's stupid. I. Think it's like. I was talking to j Barrichello is like one of the reasons for art is to make life manageable to make it worth being alive. I. Know It's silly to say maybe, but like we want to create a world that we want to be in an art plays a really big part in that. Even if it is just creating silly joy, I think that I think that matters. I. Have to think some a genius like Eurodollars, their Del Toro has to be like I'm doing what I wanna see, and in his case, I feel like he's doing the dream he had when he was thirteen. Yeah. The nightmare but. Awesome name, but you ever have an awesome nightmare. Nightmare Yeah I've from nightmares before and I was like specifically with skyscraper-tall monsters I was like that was scary when I was in it. But when I think about it, that was the coolest dream I've ever had like, that was really really cool. I don't think I have any surrealist dreams, my dream girl her and. Trying to get the sugar even though somebody has cancer. Yeah. Well we've talked so much. Obviously, I think you can tell I really enjoyed this. Let's just do a little bit of a speed round. To closes out unless you have to go, which is totally within your lights. No I'm good. You're okay. But had the right to go but. I? Like. I'm supposed to your boss everybody like me would be like will I look like a jerk relief like you? We've been talking for two hours. Ville. Duty Love it ninety time Jenner talk okay good. Well, here comes the last part people always laugh because I tag it on at the end. But every episode we talked about the meaning of life we talk about God. Religion a framework for the universe. So I'm not asking you to nail it. I'm just wondering you Charlie, day today how do you feel about Is there to this chaos. I saw on your wikipedia pages said that you're agnostic I'm wondering how you were raised and how you sort of make sense of the miracle of life, the miracle consciousness where we're going what's happening. Raised Heavily Catholic. Catholic in new. England. And you know full believer as a kid I think as time went on and you sort of learn the history of the world against skeptical about. People but I look I've always show about religion like this. I don't know. What the ingredients? are in toothpaste. Okay. I know that there's Floride in there. But I don't actually know how toothpaste works I. Get my word. If someone hurdle me back in time I I, I can tell the peasants in the kings. Hey, we should all be brushing your teeth and they'd be great. How do we do not a clue? How to make things, right. So why me you? Me Plus you identifies as Charlie. Why, why is it on me to know the answer to all things? Yeah. In the meaning the. Let's, let's say free myself with that. I think I'd be much happier in being I. Think. I just I. I will never. No. No one will ever know. And I'd rather enjoy my life than try to figure it out some people get a lot of enjoyment trying to figure out the meaning of all things. But I don't know. I'm not even convinced. Anything is actually happening that there is a reality I. Don't I don't know. Yeah. No I I mean. I was just talking this morning with Iras about how at its core Buddhism Hinduism you strip them down far enough. They sort of have a forgive me Buddhists and Hindus if I'm not representing you correctly, but there's sort of an idea that there is nothing happening. That's what my daughter's name means. Leila means the dance of the universe meaning what you said. Don't take it too. seriously. We're just making TV show saying it's all Leila, is a way of saying this is just a dance. This is just a play of light. It's a passing show. So don't get to up your own, ass. What's funny about what you're saying is. I'm with you. We can't know. That is such an important and fundamental part of of mystery and of religion. What I think is interesting about toothpaste is what's different between the phenomenon of God or awareness. Right? itself is the toothpaste is what's making you operate like you are part of toothpaste sort of that sort of what makes it interesting to me. So while I can't figure out what's in toothpastes because? I, don't work at proctor and gamble or whatever. The thing that's looking for God is God. That's what I think is. So fucking trippy. That's what sort of gives every human being every piece of reality sort of a pass to explore with. Certainty with not certainty. With green light to look for yourself because what what is looking. So if you WANNA say reality is just a play which I'm with you and you want to say we can't. It's what is looking is what what you're looking for is what you're looking with. Saint Francis said. So you you are toothpastes. Which is what makes it fun for me and saying, I don't know what's looking out. My eyes is the perfect place to start. I wouldn't for what it's worth. Wouldn't correct that at all. You're still invited to the to the. Example. That though like Began to feel with religion. Especially when I hear other people try to tell me what the meanings of all things were. That, it was like sitting in a dark closet with a crossword puzzle that none of the questions and none of the answers connect. And outside it's the most beautiful sunny day on the beach and and everything's happening, and then if you spend your whole time in the closet without crossword puzzle, your missle of the day outside. And I just started to feel that way about religion, which is like a shirt whatever you want believe great at it's probably right is probably wrong. Hey. It's a beautiful day outside to go. Limit is I, think it's room me the poet. Who writes all of this beautiful mystic poetry about finding God about being the toothpaste, but he also has that I love where he says. Don't waste your time in the orchard wondering where the trees come from just need some apples. All I'm saying. If I'm trying to be inclusionary. Saying your stance isn't not mystical, not wonder I. would agree with that. Yeah. Yeah. Your stance is gorgeous and participatory and saying. When we're this is exactly what I was talking about. With Iris, sometimes, I have an issue with some of the traditions that I love going, we're all trying to wake up and escape the cycle of birth and death, which is again, any of the reincarnation ones are like we're trying to get off the cycle. And wake up and that's enlightenment, and then I was like life is is so it's everything even when I told that joke remember and I was like, I'm feeling shame and that's what it is to be alive that sort of my perspective is I'm like even when the flight is delayed and I'm feeling horrible or the headache won't go away just like this is even when it's not a beautiful damn just like this is it. This is an experience like there's a show happening and I what I'm hearing, you say I think it's going to be a memorable talk for me at least I. Think for the people listening is like we can't get so up our own asks that it's dark. Yeah. Put it But with me I think it's acceptance as opposed to a denial. Right? So I'm not denying, oh no, there's nothing greater than ourselves or whatever you know. It's it's an acceptance of that. There's disconnected. And the expansiveness that if you just look at any sort of map of space. I mean how? Where do we begin we're? Trying to some this thing? Well. When in doubt, zoom out, we say it every time I. Bet you know this and I say it all the time. But in the seinfeld writers who made a picture of the Cosmos and I think we could all use a picture of the cosmos. Some people get cold and scared when you think about that. But when I'm having a bad day and I remember. It's the difference between thinking your visitor in the universe or you're a part of the universe, and if you think you're a part of the universe that you belong here that you're not a visitor here, you can zoom out and go like look at the fucking. Crazy infinite mystery. Mysterious. Symphony. Often. Horrible. It's often wonderful. But like look at all of it, we are as someone said on this podcast, were dogs trying to understand the internet and there's a piece there. That is non resistance that saying. I don't know. But I'm connecting right now with Pete. I'm connecting right now at Charlie and that is. The one thing clang with itself in the way that it sees sped meaning reality isn't an error. I just sometimes take issue with the idea that realities in error that we need to break away from. It feels very evangelical to me because I was like this isn't my home. We're just passing through I just. Want get on board with that in right I just reality. What's that? Reality. It's just reality if it is at all, that's right and I think you'll like, Alan, Watt says, the point of life is life is the of life is life which I think is what I hear you saying I, think. It's wonderful. Well, this is my last question for you Charlie. Thank you for for doing a episode. Very in depth conversation. I. Think we covered a lot. I'll tell you and I. Hope you get this way when I, do this and I do it two three times a week. I'm just in a better mood. The rest of the day, there's a, there's a therapy element. The connection element. And I hope you're feeling some love and appreciation and think about the you that you were at the beginning and the me that I was at the beginning like you I've watched myself melt and reform and Melton reform, and that's what the human experience is like. There's the anticipation. There's the what's it going to be? I. Don't know I interviewed people like what if they're not talkers? So there's like nerves, I. GonNa have to go to my notes, and then there's a wilting. You don't get me talking about why like one podcast? There's a, there's a shedding of lake. Oh, I. Think I'm safe like I. Think this person has my best interest in mind meeting for me with you and you and. Yes. And, then you're having a sleepover again, you know what I mean, and then you can actually feel that kind of humanity, which is why I mean. If you ever want to get me worked up, just talk to me about podcasts that like feel like they have to be an hour I'm just like. Says who? Feels like the same people that are like down shoot pilot, you sell a script, you get a producer, you know what I mean. It's like or. Whatever, the fuck you want because it's it's creative energy. Do whatever no rules and granted his music. Go Bang on the piano. Last question. Go be with your family. You already sort of answered it with the Sunny Blueberries, which by the way, some of the hardest times I've laughed the time in your life. You laughed really really hard or maybe the hardest. If you can remember it maybe you were a kid maybe somebody forwarded. Maybe you shit your pants. I. Was Pretty Lucky live I've I've laughed at hard many many many times. I'm a laugher at I'm enjoying this ride. I mean everything from teachers farting. To. Happen to teacher really farted. Oh. Yeah. Definitely. What teacher was definitely high school. But the guys talking the board gotTa squeaks out. Any just causes what he's saying for long enough to know that. Okay. He knows we heard it. We definitely heard. Everyone else seems to be nice. Of keeping their cool I'm lose. A had an. ambling. Maybe. On my own it would it be laughing, but insisting that little sign I glance at your buddy where he heard it too I need. I. Need this in my life. Thank you very much. Charlie Day I really appreciate you taking the time. Thank you, Peter. It was my pleasure. Yeah. Would you say we have the the guest? Say the catchphrase, which is keep a crispy. It's just how we ended this little Richard He'd be crispy. Dated David I. Love It. Thanks, man lots of your family stayed. Thanks you too. Okay. Bye. tastiest. Crispin. So crispy.
"You walk made it weird with me. Homesick. What's happening? Where does I hope everybody is happy and healthy and doing well through all of this I just we did a recording today. Actually with an author. That's sort of not everything that he does but his name is Chris Hewitt's and he wrote a book called the any gram of belonging. It WON'T BE OUT FOR A couple weeks. This is unplanned. Unscheduled this little plug up top but it was one of my favorite episodes that we've ever done. It always concerns me when somebody that might not be a name. Does this podcast that people skip it? So I'm saying on this episode. Maybe I'll plug it again that when it does drop in a few weeks. Please make sure to check out the Chris. Hewitt's H. E. U. Rtd Hubert's episode And check out his book. The grammar of belonging. He is incredible. We didn't actually talk. I know you know that I love talking about the any Graham but the conversation Went all over the place and only touch briefly on my favorite ancient understanding of personality types. this on the other hand is Jack Cornfield who is incredible and prevail. And I both through all of this has just been like a real port in a storm and I know for a lot of people. He's been posting a lot of guided meditations one of which he does Very short one in this podcast and just a lot of wisdom and patience and love well. People are struggling during this time so I wanted to bump this up and get it out as quickly as possible because I know this is a tricky time. A difficult time for people and Jack is such a source of comfort and wisdom and peace. So here he is. I do want to say I. I don't have to say this but this is not what I would call a typical. You made it weird episode Jack mentioned that he does better when he can prepare you. Give them some subjects and he can sort of go off on them. They'll see that he's sort of Guide in conversation which I was delighted in. He does a great job. But it's not necessarily the typical me Interjecting interrupting asking for a loss of virginity stories. Or Shit your pants to raise or whatever it might be. It really is just like a highlight and showcase and a spotlight on the wonderful teachings of Jack and I hope it is helpful to you as it was to me. I will say it's so funny. We talk a little bit about poetry in the episode. Some of the things he said in this episode first of all I teared up like four five times and at one point he talked about poetry in such a way that val and I have been starting every day By reading some poetry usually something by Mary Oliver. Who's incredible if you haven't checked her out and it's just been such a gift to us such a recalibration of our hearts every morning so I recommend that that's just something that I got out of this. I know it might not be for everybody but it I was compelled wasn't planning on telling you that but here we are I do want to say this episode is brought to us by our dear friends speaking troubling times. I've been swearing by a CW hemp Charlotte's Web Ham. They make com. Gumy's I mean come on. You need some calm gumy's I do It CBD Cw Ham dot com slash weird and use Promo Code Keep It crispy. Nineteen get ten percent off. Get some calm gumy's in your life certainly What I've been eating. I also want to say that I wrote two episodes of the Simpsons called Warren. Priests there now on. Hulu would mean a lot of people. Check those out. I think you'll see that. There's a lot of themes and stuff that we talk about on the on. This show that made its way onto the simpsons. Which of course I'm over. The Moon is a dream. Come true and Yeah there's the not feeling at check in shirt. The link is on my instagram. So many things to be not feeling these days. If you WANNA get the official you made it weird not feel in it chicken shirt. The link is in my instagram profile. Nothing else to plug. I do want to say the peace picks are the sponsors of the show. Sponsors is too cheap award. These are things that I've been using And loving For a long time now and I reached out to them to see if they wanted to sponsor the show. Give us a Promo Code. They said yes. I'm very happy that they did one of which Chata you guys know this by now. Travel has been my secret weapon and getting all the nutrition and the plant based Super Food Nutrient high that I need During this time it's obviously I'm not going to the grocery store as much to keep things You know lockdown as much as possible and catava coming to my door has been a lifesaver. It is plant based it is a superfood drink. Mix is got Omega threes from Chia and flax it's chocolate. It's vanilla or a scoop of each if you nasty got eight super fruits in the bag seventeen. Greens and veggies in the bag. Gluten Free Soy free. No artificial sweeteners or preservatives. But it is delicious. It has coconut nectar. Which is a low glycemic sweetener. Which means it doesn't spike your blood. Sugar it's got digestive support built in twenty four grams of plant based protein. Bom Nine Grams of fiber in every serving. And that's the the main selling point is that it's delicious. I always joke. That vow doesn't like a lot of the weird hippie things that I eat but she loves could Java. It's good enough to make just water. I know that sounds crazy. But it's one hundred percent true ninety percent of the time. I just put a scoop shake bottle with some water. Shake it up thirty seconds away from a healthy meal full of the nutrients and vitamins and the fighter nutrients in the minerals that you need or get crazy. Almond milk frozen. Strawberries tastes like chocolate strawberry. Ice Cream. A MILKSHAKE. But it makes you feel better than a milkshake. That's my main selling point. It's got mce for energy and vitality Scott cow which is a wonderful mood. Elevating superfood rock account. We're not talking about junk chocolate here. We're talking about the real super food. The cow not. I got it to add to my smoothie but it is the smoothie it is a meal replacement people take it to lose weight. I didn't that's not why I take it. Maybe I should but the reason is it keeps you full three or four hours after you drink at. Which isn't credible so. Try get high on nutrition. That's what I say. That's not their. That's not their slogan. That's my slogan Catava K. A. C. H. A. V. A. dot com slash weird. You'll get twenty percents off your order. Speaking of superfoods my friend. David just turned me onto to Kishan Nonni which is a ancient super fruit I didn't know this but I'm glad that I found out to he. Should Nonni has been used for thousands of years as a ancient health remedy? It's been known for its medicinal properties and now is scientifically proven to boost immune activity and naturally enhance energy and support overall wellness. So I've been taking this from this company Nonni New Age. It's too Heeschen. Nonni juice to heat known you. I like to call it. I was skeptical at first but David told me that. They have published peer reviewed studies of Clinical Double Blind Trials with placebo that show four ounces twice a day. Increase your natural killer cells. That's your n K. cells by thirty percent. Your N Que. Cells are in charge of keeping your immune system powerful and operational and peak performance. It tastes like pomegranate juice. Kind of got a little tart sweetness. I like it straight or you can put it in your smoothie or put in with some sparkling water and have it like a Spritz have a sprints but the main thing I love about I been doing it for about a month now for answers twice a day I love the feeling get gives me does boost my energy. I do like the taste and the main thing is I like knowing that I'm doing something healthy for my body healthy for my immune system giving my body. Two hundred and seventy-five nutrients and fighter nutrients key vitamins minerals and antioxidants and I take it in conjunction with their supplement. Sell Defense which is clinically shown to help your body fight inflammation and normally of one liter bottle of to. He'd known Jew. Antibiotics defense is one hundred bucks but as a thanks for listening to the PODCAST and showing your support. You can get both for forty dollars. Do something healthy for your body and show your support of this show. All you have to do is go to Nonni new age dot com slash. Weird forty and get into it That's it that's all I have to plug. I sincerely hope you enjoy the chat with Jack as much as I did. Boy It was just. It was like sunshine on my heart. I really hope you enjoy it as much as I did. And I'm probably going to listen to this again. We were just watching one of his talks today. And if you're into it go to Jack Cornfield Dot Com and just gobble up everything that he's put now these days guys it's really it's really a gift and I'm so glad that we have them all right. That's it enough blabbing and Boron get into it. The Amazing Jack Cornfield. We record that him. I Jack go in are you. I WANNA get your cough on the record. I don't want anybody thinking you're superhuman her unattainable. Actually you're a coughing will do you what. This is an audio recording. I'm assuming yes yes. This is just so we can see one another each in love. Okay there we go good to see you are you. How's your kid? She is beautiful. Yes have you ever. She's three now oldish ing. She's almost two she's twenty months. Yeah Oh yeah we have A. I have an eighteen month grandson. Oh Wow it's really fun and I'm so glad I'm not the parent I mean it's it's either what you want or not what you want. And that's what we want. I'm really happy to report. Yeah Yeah of course. We're we're at the at this time especially it gives so much meaning. I remember when What what is the firm? And Bob Thurman was talking about doing the dishes at one of the Ramdas retreats that you and I were at and I always think of him when I do the dishes. Because he's like doing the dishes. Great it's it's quiet time and and it's a time to reflect and just feel the water and smell the soap and I've heard that before but what he added was there's a feeling of accomplishment and that was like bad is right on and that is our is because that needs a diaper change. He needs to be Fed. Needs her nap. She's going down for a NAP right now. And and I both are benefiting not only from the love that that Leila's just constantly radiating but we get meaning we get like this real story every day of something to take care of and something to do universal s by the way we've begun. This is just how we do welcome. I'm so happy to see you. I've been Enjoying your teachings from afar and obviously also in person in Maui probably five times I think I've I've Oh yeah when you were there you know. Obviously you alternate but It's it's a wild time and I know you're feeding a lot of people and I'm happy to give you a new audience to talk to I know you. You Do Duncan's podcasts. But So they'll be some of working with. Duncan he's too great in. Yes I've been doing gotten requests from all kinds of things from the top political campaigns to some of the biggest corporations in America to a lot of nonprofits when people on the first first responders in part of it. It's just that there's a kind of hunger at this time. With the pandemic for people to learn how to steady their hearts now to kind of keep themselves healthy inwardly so that they can live and be with others Good way yeah and people realize inner life actually needs intended. Yes that's that is hard. I need you can't just take it. Grad. You said something at the end of one of your talks which I found very moving where you're like it's your choice to like become spacious to tend your heart and to your mind and in these moments is when we're saint. This is where the rubber meets the road. Sort of. Yeah I I wrote in my I wrote a book about my action spirit and I always want to remember that. I used to think that monks just wanted to relax. Don't we all relax? Actually my friend and sometime comedian teacher. West Liquor says what we really want is endless. Excitement imperfect piece. Wow both exactly well. That's actually I mean when I say that I want to remember that some people might think that you are just like a relaxation expert. But that's not really what we're doing we're trying to Gird up our hearts so that we can better better judgment but deal. Let's just deal with reality? Or how would you put it? What what is the business of quieting while I remember my daughter when she was a teenager and we were in some conflict about how long she go out or how far she could drive and I was a bit you know reacted to something and she looked at me dad chill. Don't you remember mindfulness? Kill I wonder thank you to your thank you to our Chil- our our living and masters our children. As I wonder all the time what Leila's GonNa do to my I specifically my non-resistance you know round. I hope you're putting money in the therapy. Found like we for yourselves. Kids to to work through out. whatever we did anyway you're asking Assembly serious question and the point of meditation or mindfulness is not simply to relax or stress reduction although those are very useful things especially when we're stressed but the point actually is to get ourselves quiet often and present in our life so that we can live with love and wisdom and sometimes that means dealing with strong emotions or conflict around you and finding a center where you're willing to approach that and in meditation. That doesn't mean the goal is to be quiet. The goal is actually to be aware and kind. I liked the phrase that our mutual friend run used and I use it often. That mindfulness is loving awareness. What that means is that we contend our own audie and our art and mind with loving awareness because if we don't just get reactive in caught and scuff and suffer law and we contend all our connections with the world and all that we do with loving awareness. And if we do it comes from a place that's more beneficial and fruitful for everyone. Yeah so then through the idea totally when I when I hear you teaching how to deal with all this adversity and obviously we're all dealing with a lot of adversity struck me to ask you. I was like it's not. It seems to me. It's not a flaw in the system. You talk about body. Sada's these are enlightened beings that would seek out suffering that would go to where the pandemic was that would go to where the earthquake had happened or go to wherever the suffering was that they could re relieve suffering and of course in the process it would. It'd be a great teacher to the my. I imagine everyone involved so my question for you was. Is it a perfect world where we all become enlightened or is it all in the game you know that's a question above my pay grade? The world perfect is it. Not but I love to think of what Mr Rogers Mother Taught Him. You know to look. For the helpers in your member for example the hurricane in Houston that flooded out huge neighborhoods in people in their dogs were on their roof for days waiting to be rescued and then all the it was called Cajun. Navy the guys in women men and women with boats and so forth came by the thousands from Mississippi and Alabama and neighboring states with their airboats in their boats as engage in Navy. They just came in they said. Let's go to the rooftops. Let's take these people off. Let's help every difficulty that we have as human beings and there have been many in there will be many personally and collective also invites and brings out something deep beautiful in us and so for generations. Millennia we've lived through epidemics in earthquakes and Tornados and floods. And we've done it actually by the care that we have for one. Another Margaret Mead was asked at one point What she saw as the beginning of civilization. What were the signs of you meant? You know the person who asked expected to disable the earliest cave paintings were some fragments of Abol or or a spear tip or something showing human intelligence and she said she said for her. It was a broken thighbone. There was a skeleton with others and the FEMUR had broken and healed. She said if you're an animal in the wild and you break your leg you can't run. You can't get water or food and you become prey for the other animals. You don't survive. But here this human being broken their leg and someone or others have carried them to safety fed them given the water intended them long enough for their leg to heal. She said this is the beginning of human civilization. Though you know I will answer your question but at a different way born into us from the beginning is this profound sense of connection with one another and all of the best scientific research shows infants pre verbal infants at Yale. Something difficult having to someone. There is in their winter. How can I help? Wow Wow that is so beautiful. Imagine thinking of doing that studying the eye movements of the baby and going like Oh. They're looking to see as their food. Is there a bubby is a Mike at like what? What do I need? Imagine empathy existing at such an early stage. It's very clear that it does. I find that to be very very true. I know Leila's a better daughter probably wants to help. You sometimes hear daddy this to eat. This shadow will see that is a grandfather of an eighteen month old and an apparent is like I feed my daughter and what really melts. Me Is when she feeds me like she's eating me and I'm like what is going on here. Why does she want to play with the baby doll? Like she changes a baby doll like she wants to like do what we're doing to her and mirror that she's just started kissing. It's unbelievable I mean she's always. We've kissed her we if we've been respectful boundaries but like we'll we'll sneak a kiss but now she'll kiss us and it's just unbelievable to see that blossoming in her. I had I bring it up all the time. I always talked to people my guess about God and M- My Family Gordon said when I see someone hit by a car and everybody gathers over to see how they can help she goes. That is my God. And I was very intuitively wise to me. That just feels really right on. I also had a friend talk about the yearning. You quoted this poem. I think it was Kabeer. Maybe that said you can pick all the flowers but you can't stop the Spring Pablo Neruda nearly. Oh you can pick all the flowers. But you can't stop the spring. No matter with climate change are the things that we really need to care about because though will make the difference of suffering for millions but there's something about the Life Force. Earth itself that wants to heal and renew itself and we see it in this pandemic when this guys are bluer than they've been in decades when people are able to breathe the air that were Chope win. Animals are roaming the streets. Those people are out there. Apply kind of sauntering down a highway in Kenya like a okay now. We take him back over again. Yeah yeah the I owed is in New York. It's like okay. Maybe life will come back in just a moment. There's such a force of life and I associate in California because we have cycles of forest fires new gotten exacerbated by the climate change but they've always been part of the cycle and if you go into forest redwood forest which is swept through in kind of underbrush cleared out by fire. It looks like a Holocaust. There's everything is burned and dead and black and after one season grain. You walk back in already. There are thousands millions of green shoots in in two years the bushes in the little trees. You almost wouldn't know there was a fire. That's how powerful is that lifeforce and it's an us in the same way right. That same force is looking at your is it is. I mean an and you know what you might say well. I'm having a depressed day. I don't feel any force and things but if you step off the curb in a car comes around the corner really fast as if to hit you your body will get your ass back on the curb young. It just will but it's not just a survival instinct but it's actually the the deeply ingrained love of life itself bidding you. It's very dark So I hesitate to say it but I will say maybe it's helpful. There are a lot of people that attempted suicide. It didn't work and they said the I thought they had when they jumped off. The bridge was like nope. This was a horrible mistake and I know that's dark but there's something beautiful about that to that which is what you're saying. And of course they survived and the May and they worked with that feeling and it took them to another which well. Here's another piece of that to add and that is when people are suicidal. There's actually a deep intelligence in it. They realize in some way that their life is simply not working that the burden of pain that they've brought to others and brought to themselves or that they have to bear is too much in that family in the work situation in their body. Whatever it is. They're they're trying to escape but the problem is that they've made a mistake of levels. They think that it's their body. That has to die in their body isn't the problem. Something has the die where they live their identity who they are their job. Their families something does have to die. Let go of in some painful terrible way in order for something new to happen. But it's not a body and so it's really a call for a kind of death rebirth. That's asked in the heart that says this is untenable. I need a reset. Needs to let all of this die however painful. It is and start again. I think that is so beautiful. I heard that similarly where somebody was like so many people coming of age adolescent age eighteen thousand nine hundred twenty one will become suicidal. And he's like they don't realize is part of them does have to die. It's their young ways. It's it's there's there's a phoenix rising like another part of needs to continue to the other side of the bridge and part of does jump. But it's not your body. It's not who you are. You just put that so beautifully. I love that I love laugh Boy made me think of something else and I forgot it as I was telling you that other thing. Why don't we start at the start? Though with Jack Cornfield a little bit about who you are for people who don't know. I know a little bit about your story. I know that you went into the Peace Corps. But why don't you to put a point to it how you found meditation? How you found Buddhism. Well I grew up in a very painful family at three brothers. My Dad who was a biophysicist who taught in medical school and help create designed some of the first artificial hearts and did space medicine was also mentally ill and so he was paranoid and often quite violent. You would be my mother or throw her down the stairs or all kinds. I won't tell the stories when I got to college. You know we all survived somehow. All that I discovered that while I had a fine Ivy League education. Nobody taught me how to deal with my own anger and rage. I was just suppressed it because I wasn't going to be like my father. Nobody taught me about what a loving relationship would be like because my parents didn't have it. Nobody taught me how to deal with my own emotions of fear or my longing vision. What nourishes it's as if I had half an education and I was at first in you know doing organic chemistry and all the things to perhaps I'm become a physician. And then I car medically by accident by interest took a brilliant course in eastern philosophy. Run this professor. Come from the Department at Harvard. Teaching he would sometimes sit cross legged on the desk and talk about the teachings of the Buddha saying that. They're suffering life in on nodding. Yeah there's causes in there's an end to it. There's half the ended and I sat up when I really. I began to study this stuff because I needed. It wasn't theoretical at all was like how do I understand this and how to understand. The suffer of the world around me was was again in a very privileged place Dartmouth college and there was a lot of unhappiness in a lot of difficulty. Not just mine and So I study this and it didn't hurt that it was in the sixties and I became a hippie and dropped acid and and went to the summer of love and when there is a whole other world. What is the order of that? Did the class come before becoming a hippie? The class you mean because Asian studies came. I Mike you know might chinese-language flash cards with ME TO HAIGHT Ashbury. There was both interested but I thought well this is a cool thing. Maybe I'll get some girls this way or some half. I couldn't be more interested first of all. Your story is very similar to Rhonda Site Remember. He talked about. He's like well. I wanted it. He was like I was looking for it clearly. We must be hit because we're the Harvard professors in we're in the WE'RE HAVING HIGH T. I always remember him sort of being proud that they had the high tea. And they wear the jackets. And then you have plane and all the fancy things and he was like but nobody seemed to have it like it was all a feeder. It was pretending like they had it when he got a taste. As you did of the of the deeper stuff of the heart stuff he just couldn't he couldn't turn away but what I want to slow you down on it because I'm very interesting the first time you did take acid or anything like that in conjunction with your study. I think that had to be pretty revelatory. It was let me tell you about a particular trip. I've had a number but I arrived in San Francisco for the summer of love. End them some girls. I knew from Bennington College Granted Arman upon Protrero Hill in the sort of windy whitewash part of the city. That's beautiful light in and so forth and I came in hitchhiked across the country and ended some mountain climbing. I did climb Mount Rainier and did some ice climbing and it was partly had terrible breakups with my girlfriend. It was all on conscious so I decided I would climb a mountain to the back America the two together. I just did it. Nobody you your pre therapy hadn't learned how to be your meals. Did but I get so. I live at this apartment hitchhike on the status. Go and these two girls in a couple of guys that are with them or sitting at the table. And there's this is something very small little mound of white powder a bunch of empty caps in their capping assets given them similarity and they were distributing it as I had gotten at other times for like that. The AM PSYCHEDELIC Research Society in Cambridge two blocks from Harvard Square. You could go up. And they'd say how many sugarcubes do want. How many people are you going to turn on the just give it to you? That was your amount so that was in the day when it was still legal right so oh this is where they're by like like they're trying to turn on the world. How so they said here take a cab driver couple these so they an me. Two caps a very strong. Lsd and I started trip and everything starts to dissolve including myself in this eight. Let us show you the city so they bundled me up in this raccoon coat. It's a little chilly in the summer. In San Francisco is Mark Twain. Noted my cold. The cold this winter ever spent was a summer. Cisco took me out to the Volkswagen bus. Had One of those kind of crinkly tops that you could put aside so you could open the whole top. And they stood me up source holding onto a tripping on acid and they drove around the city. Here's the Golden Gate Bridge Years Tower dripping like crazy option to San Francisco. Now I have to say decide hippie tripping which was its own thing you know taking the acid on the fillmore. You know dancing and things. I've actually had some really profound experiences with psychedelics. In it's not that I suggest that people use it lightly. I think people can misuse it. Were Americans we know how to misuse anything? But in the right set and setting where you're quiet intended and maybe even shades are music and things than you do it. As as I've done interior trip profound opening revelations in death and rebirth in visions of and beyond that a sense that there a a sense of mystery in ways that you ordinarily don't get and I when I came back from the monastery. Good friends with Stanislav Groff. Who was the last legitimate? Lsd researcher of that era. He was at Johns Hopkins before that was closed down when he was doing this project in which he and his medical colleagues were giving LSD to terminal cancer patients and he gave me a series of videos. We were kind of collaborating in did end up working together forty years doing interesting and I remember a video of this coal miner from West Virginia named Jesse who had cancer metastasized through his body so it was a little hard to speak. He was in tremendous pain more than that in great great fear and he was given the LSD and blindfolds in some beautiful music to listen to for you know eight hours and people holding his hand intending him and and then it showed the line hold coming off in him. Talking any said hearses face looked like he'd been reborn though smooth he. I don't I don't have any pain in my body now. And then he went on. He said I don't know what this stuff you gave me is but I saw God he said I know that. I'm God that we're all God and I'm not afraid to die no more because I seen it. I seen it and you see this coal miner. You know who's gone from the most agonizing physical pain in fear of death understanding did whom we are is lot our body that we are the consciousness that was born in our body that's timeless awareness and when a baby is born our first gestures love you know and the hand we hold of someone that we care about when there is equally gesture love. Love in the end is who we are. We are timeless awareness and love itself the nature of our consciousness and Jesse had avails taken away and it changed everything for him now. Even the the veils coming off. It's like a baby coming out. You know what I mean and it has that feeling to me. What a what a we can end the podcast. Now that's it. That is so beautiful. I love that so much. It actually brought to mind what I forgot what we were talking about earlier when we were talking about death is that Baptism Christian baptism is a death Enactment it's actually there. They're all kinds of rituals in. We've come in our culture. We've lost guess the meaning of ritual in how to ritually grieve. Honor all kinds of ways. And I'll tell you I mean ritual can be so simple at at the same time so powerful like water to annoyance someone less than or water of baptism or fire to light a candle or or you know or air. The words the song or the prayer rituals the most ancient language even before our words we had gestures with one another. It's this it's this elemental language. So I remember working with my colleagues Michael Meade Malady. Dome so Mae. West African Shaman with medicine. Man Louise's Rodriguez who's one of the great. Latin poets wrote La Vida Loca Mike Gang Days L. A. Which he says proudly is the most stolen book and high school libraries across the faith and we were doing a retreat for for bunch of young men who are coming out a street gangs in La and Oakland cargo. You know and they sit back with their hoods up in their hats on like man. You GonNa read me a poem. You gotTa tell me some kind of meditation or some. I'm out on the street. People got nine maters shooting each other. You gotta give me something better than that so we said well before we can even talk together there too many too many beings in this room who haven't been held with respect so we wanna ask you go out in the parking lot and pick up stolen for every young person you know who's been killed and we're GonNa Light this candle and put it on the table year. Just a simple candle a when you come back in put the stone down by the candle and simply say their name and some of these kids would come in. Their hands were full of stones. No young person should know that many dead people and then they would say this is not does and this is for RJ. This is home. Homegirl is pretty soon. There was a big pile of stones around this candle and everybody sat down in the hoods came off the hats. Came off said okay. This is the place where we can really talk about. What's you know what's true for what's what's really going on? Ritual is a very very power thing whether it's a baptism or candle. If we take this the the the purpose of ritual to meet one another and this is the kind of language so after I graduated Dartmouth. I wanted to learn these kinds of things. I WANNA learn meditation. I wanted to learn the inner life. How do you deal with fear? Honey deal with your own aggression and anxiety. How do you deal with self judgement? Judging others out you deal with the love relationship so I wonder. Are there still great? Zen Masters they're still these wise Dietrich's and I asked the Peace Corps WanNa go into the Vietnam you know. Shoot people in the military so I asked the Peace Corps to send me to a Buddhist country and they ended up sending me to Thailand and I went work right on the Mai Cong River on the border of Laos and Thailand Cambodia Where had been fighting and and things like that and for two years I worked on village. A tropical medicine teams giving out medicine for malaria and various things like that but I also during that time looked around and found a really wise teacher began to study and learn from him and then what was done. Said I'm going and live with this teacher and became a Buddhist monk for some years to to do the training. That's wanted a little and isn't it strange? You know I've talked before about how every superhero story starts with their parents. Dying and on a certain level. They're dealing with attachment like. I'm always struck. The they become powerful when their parents go away and then they almost lose their power when their girlfriend. Or if you're spiderman on May some new attachment is threatened and you have to like reconcile your role as a superhero and your attachment to your people. The reason I say that is because here you are sort of an uncanny position of freedom to go to Thailand. First all you had to have the initiative and do that but then to stay was in part because you have this family situation. That wasn't wonderful to come back to like so. Did that afford you a sort of liberation something? You wouldn't ask for but you were able to say I'm going to stay. Perhaps so I mean I think in some way that's partly the task anyway as we matured even in cultures where you have to stay in the family system there some huge rite of passage where you're not seen as a child anymore where you become an empowered adult whether it's among the Maasai and initiation in a young man goes out the spirit of kill a lion or young woman who's sixteen years old gives birth in a circle of grandmothers for the first new baby in that community. In in those days giving birth was a really dangerous thing your life in the life of the baby all of that and so you go through an initiation. We've lost that in mandate in our culture. There's a little bit will go in the military or college but it's not seen as the initiation that in elder would guide that really brings a kind of fruition and so instead you see like gang kids on the street imitating or trying to initiate themselves. Which you can't do or I'm GonNa go and shoot someone to show you a man you know and being tremendously destructive In a because they wanNA prove themselves and become part of the family and a new way. There's a longing in us that so deep to be connected into belong and part of initiation is to be is. Is that the beauty in the power of that young is honored and recognized said. Yes we see who you are and we validate you and we welcome you back not as a child but as somebody who's part of you know the community in some deeper way and I saw I'm GonNa turn the conversation now. I saw our again. Our dear friend Ramdas who you wanted to talk about Discretionally you know the last retreat that he taught I think of when he was he been very sick after his stroke and many kinds of illnesses and difficulties in he could In certain way his he could hardly talk not many sentences but he sat up and he wanted a bless everybody. We were chanting and hearing his teachings in watching videos when he was more articulate and he would teach his best as he could in dialogue was. It was all very moving. 'cause he couldn't let go but he said no he said. I think the question is what would love have me do today. And his answer was always was loved more to love so he said. I'm GONNA do it. You don't like to my last breath I wanna do this. And people filed by him at the end of this retreat where they were going to receive a little risks said of beads with a threat from his group blanket and he was going to bless them often any in earlier years he would actually hand it into a blessing but here he was so weak he couldn't hand it to them. They were they. They were given a by another but they stood in front of him and he did what in India is sometimes described the offered. What in India sometimes described as the glance of mercy look from grew or a master teacher where she or he looks at you with so much. Love that everything that you thought about yourself just falls away and you remember who you really are. You remember that Secret Beauty. That was born into as a child and he would look gaze at each person with so much people would stand there into start to weep like could barely take it in. And it rewires you're being rewires the DNA yourself because something in you realize. Oh I am worthy of this love I have that and I am it in some way and this was really his blessing. It was at recognizing whatever was coming out of him inside of ourselves. He had he had that ability to wake that up. And I know exactly what you're talking about. It was truly lovely. When when did you meet round us? I'm sure you get that question a lot. I wonder boss in nineteen seventy two seventy three after I'd come back from being in the Buddhist Monastery And I I was in Newington starting graduate school. I didn't know what else to do. I've been a student. My whole life in psychology. I thought will study psychology and figure out what the hell happened to me. All this Buddhist Training GonNa understand and I met a mutual friend. Dan Goldman the guy who wrote Marshall Intelligence and he introduced me to a circle of friends at the House of Dr David McClellan and his wife Mary. David was the chairman of psychology social relations. Harvard the guy who both hired run thus in Tim leary and then later fired them. But they're big Cambridgehouse was kind of a somewhere between a Suare and a spirit informal spiritual center and everybody you know the Llama choke him trump on Ramdas in Kushner murdy in the spiritual figures of that time would end up Living Room with areas other people around and so I I met this whole Coterie of people. And that's where I met him. Trump was invited to help be part of the founding faculty at Naropa University and When Ramdas and I talk some about the training I'd had in no and then I met this other young and Joseph Goldstein had been training in India and was helping roamed US teach. We all became really good friends. And Rhonda's came as a student to sit at the retreats that Joseph Nye and Sharon were teaching and I think partly because he knew he needed. He needed the meditation but also it was a really beautiful for move honoring and support of what we were doing that began. You know forty five years of a loving in deep friendship among the whole community us. How sharing the the Sharon you mentioned the Sharon Salzberg who's is been on the show twice now just to give people some context where you there. I one of my favorite Ramdas things is. I think it's twelve hours long. Loved Service Devotion. Which is the series of lectures. He gave on the bug of GITA ADN AROPA. Oh yeah those. Were remarkable lectures. They're of course here and it was also interesting because the setup at neuro the two most celebrated teachers were Ramdas had thousands of hours by that point. Hundred seventy four after writing be here. Now that best's virtual bestseller and Lama Toby. Marimba will cutting through spiritual materialism and others than was a a linguistic genius in many ways explaining Tibetan Buddhism in ways that never had been done before and they would alternate ramdas would have US chant and sing in open. Our hearts in it was a very very loving presentation of what it means to love and serve and remember whatever is holy in your life and so put an all kinds of practices that we did Joseph Goldstein's and I did teachings and practices in compliment. That an alternate nights job trump would get up very much more serious demeanor sometimes wearing it suit coat and tie and talk about the Buddhist. Teaching is not just singing and dancing. It's the noble truths of suffering in its causes and it was. It was very They were playing off on another. Yes rate in deep and people would kind of go back and forth okay suffering. We have to learn how to meditate. We have to overcome. You know all of the ways that we get caught and so forth find a more dignified way to live in Ramdas would say sing love one another dance and sloppy. Laki every other every other night so it was. It was a great show. It's incredible what what was it like. I always think I listen. Lectures probably four times the whole way through. Excuse me I'm always wondering what was it like? Were you hanging out with Rahm? Nas in the interim like during the day where you're seeing them at Lund with all on the faculty we spent time together some of it. You'll be very sad to know was in faculty meeting even when you go to the monastery of the temple meetings follow you. You know what we do and we were all getting educated. For example the way we started to t- Ramdas included and Joseph and I was very patriarchal because the translation in the language and Buddhism and Indian in time for me society or very patriarchal men over women. The monks were revered more than the nuns. The language was he in this and it was all you know that didn't fly and not only did not fly. It was toxic but needless to say some of US clueless skies really needed are our pushed right into our face as it was you know and and I can remember a moment where Mira by Bush who is also wonderful teacher friend around thus and so forth that was on the faculty was saying in the Faculty Meeting Ramdas Job Trump. In all you know women are not being honored here. The teachers the feminine row and so forth and choke him trump replied but from the deepest level of Dharma. There is no man and a woman. You're just conscious beings and you're making a false distinction by. That's a false distinction. Then why or ninety two percent of the faculty you know and one hundred percent of the administration men you know. Why are the women doing the dishes in the? If you're my address it was like you know you watch this. The Zen master answered the Lama and Point Guard for the Women Really Points scored for consciousness. Itself will isn't that that's a trap. I mean I've seen people try to sidestep real issues of identity gender of sexuality by saying the COP out of we're all one. Yeah all it. We're really all one. Try Not stopping at a red light and see how long you live right here. Are there different levels and on one level where all on and round US used to say you need to remember your true nature in your social security number. Read that that on another level we live in a of duality earth and death. I shouldn't pain in joy and sorrow in gain and loss. Everybody does and this has to be honored with the heart to love it all as it is in all its imperfections. What Oscar Wilde called the tainted glory of it? No one in the gifts at Rhonda's offered during that time I remember was on the full moon. That first summer in July was maybe was grew per day or some very important into holiday and so we had a huge bonfire out on the plains where you could see the whole rise of the rocky mountains which you can see when you're in boulder. There's this huge wall. Amounts you know and the full moon and a couple of thousand of us out singing and chanting but before people could enter the terrain or the area of the singing chanting and prayer and making offerings. If you carry anything in your heart that needed to be forgiven or released in some way than you were steered in a direction were kind of set up as a kind of a tent or a place and there were priests in Ramdas. Was the high priest if you will in the priestly role or just talking. It is in archetype and people would come and they would confess what they needed to forgive what they needed to let go what they felt. Regret or shame or fear anger about and after doing so they would get a blessing and then they were able to join Ramdas. Just did it for a long time. Because part of his life was really the life of the tender of the hearts. And maybe you could use that word in its double entendre in. Its double meaning you know. He wanted the heart to be tender and attended. The I was reading one of my favorite spiritual teachers. Richard Rohr. I don't know have you heard of Richard Word Narrow. Roa Char he's a Franciscan and he talks about how. Certainly it's not always done properly but the Catholic practice of confession to be such a beautiful thing. And he said that there are therapists that envy what can be accomplished and sometimes forty five seconds in a confessional booth because of the archetypes that are at play so much stock in blueberries in this is this is Again the power of ritual as ritualized as ROM dusted again. It was thirty seconds or a minute and I know it in forty five years leading retreats. Because I've also trained as a therapist and done years of that and people would come in and see me for ten minutes and magic would happen things we'd get released in. Pritam and I would tell the stories to other Arabists how do you do that? And I said well part of it is set up as a ritual but also part of it is that they spent a last whole week. Meditating in getting quiet and seeing what's in their mind and coming somehow it into touch with what's in them with their fears and longings and love and Ity so when they come in their present in a way that you know you get somebody coming to therapy and they just drove in the parking lot and they finished shopping and rental cars home to even get in their body. There's a line from James Joyce Gory Road of one character. Mr Duffy lived a short distance from his by an and half of what we do is just to get somebody here so that all the parts are in the room together. That's what the what that beautiful Richard Boorda's is again. It's like lightning that candle again. It's it's creating a ritual space in which there's a safety in forgiveness in possibility to hold our humanity in the field of love and and it's so powerful. I'll tell you a story how in it's one I tell regularly because it's it's one of the stories it's meant the most to me in my life just as Rondebosch would tell certain formative stories over and over again. I lived in the monastery in the forest. Doing some very intensive meditation training these are monasteries with another monk from Cambodia named Ghosananda in goes to Nanda was also a great scholar spoke fifteen languages and a deer hearted man and when the Cambodian genocide happened under the camera rouge. He was outside of the country or he would have been killed in effect. His village village temple was burned and nineteen. All nine hundred members of his family have been killed half the people he knew it been slaughtered and people fled. They ran across the border into Thailand in the UN set up these huge refugee camps for hundreds of thousands of refugees escaping the killing fields so as soon as he could go synon- went to the refugee camps. As one of the few monkshood survived to help he later became head of all of Cambodian Buddhism. He was so honored for what he had done. And there were in one camp with fifty thousand one hundred thousand people in these little tiny bamboo huts on a very hot dry claim surrounded by a wire fence by the United Nations High Commissioner on Refugees and Ghosananda ass UNHCR. Can we open a Buddhist temple here for people who lost everything been got permission and it was very simple with a great big wooden platform of the roof over in a little altar? That had a Buddha on it in a big Gong and some flowers and then he said. Let's open the temple this Saturday. Whatever but we heard from the Chimera Rouge underground in the camp that they threatened. If anyone went to the temple later on when they were released they would be shot and killed so we didn't know whether people would come and went through the camp bringing this big long announcing that Sa- Temple would open twenty five thousand people poured into this central square in. Sat. There here's goes synonymous with his whole family killed looking out at the faces of people with so much trauma he know who survived just barely grandmother and two surviving grandchildren and uncle in one these the faces in the is you could see you people who are still in. Shaw and I thought what is he going to say? You know what you say and you looked out across. The Sea of faces could his hands together and began to chant in Cambodian in Pali Sanskrit. The some of the very first verses of the Buddha which goes hatred never ceases by hatred but by love alone is healed. This is the ancient law. He started to chant it over and over and Cambodian compare in Pali Sanskrit over and over and pretty soon people but their hands together. They hadn't heard these prayers in some years and they began to Channon after well. Twenty Five Thousand. People were chanting hatred. Never ends by hatred but by love alone was healed and I realized that he was speaking truth there was even bigger than their sorrows and it was extraordinary thing and later for fifteen years. He was nominated for the Nobel Prize many times. He lead people on foot. He said you can't go back in a bus. Or you know in a truck or something you after reclaim your land step by step and again and again he would lead thousand or two thousand. People chanting hatred never ceases by hatred. But I love alone is fueled step-by-step. All the way back to the village he said to with each step you reclaim your land and you reclaim your heart facial. Had these kind of trainings in nine came back here. You are such a gift Jag. I Love I love that so much I did one of your meditations all we keep coming back to the importance of a temple and place in a ritual and the importance of even giving value. We can know that it's all one and it's it's all a mystery and it's all just let's just play but we also have to honor the form and honor the suffering and honor the love and honor the relationship and you were doing this on. Youtube for anybody interested. You can go to Jack. Quinn Cornfield DOT COM. You have all of them there and you. It's a very short meditation. You take us to a temple on a magic carpet and it's healing temple and I was thinking afterwards. I was like it's interesting. That a temple is no more holy we can get. Intellectual within a temple is no more holy than any other place right. We could say that and yet because it is it is does that make sense is it isn't enemy. I mean that's because we live in the realm of Iraq's you could say a child is no more holy than tree you know yes or Dennis Stone. I mean in a way everything is mystery. That's come out of the birth of existence itself and it's all sacred and those who are in touch whether it's in indigenous cultures or the great poets and musicians or you know the mystics or any of us when we've had that moment making love or walking high in the mountains or taking psychedelics. Or you know doing some meditation or you know they're those more or having a near death experience in getting through it and you come back and you say oh God. This world is holy. Every leaf is full of light. The leaves on the trees are like pages in the scriptures. Someone wrote so one. Truth is that And then love must be fulfilled in the minute. Particulars that William Blake In the particulars if this child this tree and in that way at temple is built as a place to remind us when you go in the Cathedral of chartres you know this enormous magnificent structure. It's there to show you that. There's something bigger than your daily worries in your small sense of Self Susan fastness. That's who you really are when you go into temple in Bali. There's no roof it's the it's the stars in the sky over the temple. The remind you're part of this fastness and in some way. These are all our human rituals to remind us of a who we really are now in. Yeah so to follow up on two things you said. I practices really important than helpful. It's one thing to walk in the mountains or make love or drop acid or a near death experience or you know a mystical experience in an know that you're not just this separate sense himself but to sustain it and live it to embody it to live from. What would love have me? Do today requires for almost everyone some form of practice sometime when you quiet a mind. Ten to heart and listen deeply. Which is really what meditation is about. It's not about a state. It's about opening in deep listening. Yes so on my website. There's lots of guided meditations and sizes. There's also for people interested in teaching. There's a beautiful teacher training but most importantly there these practices that you can make your own and turn into Ah Part of your day just as you. You know Russia not just as we are just as you take a walk and it's not meant to be a grim duty are now. I've exercised now I. I'm on my diet now on therapy and I up to meditate. It's actually meant to be an invitation to the heart to stop. Listen take a deep breath or Tan and go. What really matters is my body feeling. What does my body need to be aired for this human body as my heart doing. Oh God there's so much sadness from the epidemic or read so much anxiety. I hold that anxiety with compassion tenderness and you begin to close your eyes and bring that tender awareness to your own body then to your own heart and as you do then you can also ask. What does my heart need to help me get through this and then more deeply you can ask. What is it that I can bring back to the world from this place understanding I try to when I don't feel like meditating? I try to go like what is unattractive about sitting there and no matter what you think allowing it loving it and giving it space like instead of thinking of it as something wrote that. I have to drill your nose. This actually resistance. You don't have to get over resistance. I'm resisting meditating. Resent you simply have to get curious when there's resistance it means something's cooking okay. I I don't want us it still fine. What is it that cooking. What would it be so hard to sit with? Only God got so much grief from the news. I was watching or the neighbors who lost everything the equal or I've got so much. Fear is Mike businesses collapsing or my friends have lost this or or this person. I know is sick or I've got so much uncertainty and I can't bear in you get curation state. This is why it's hard to sit. Fine let me see if I can hold. This would loving awareness in with compassion. Because this is natural. It's human you're only human as you hold with compassion to have nothing but a set just GonNa hold that which is difficult with compassion already. You're doing deep meditation. Beautiful Beautiful. I love that so much. Yeah Ramdas used to say Give it space and and for some reason. That is exactly what it feels like. It's so hard you of course are a master at it. I love how you articulate meditation on your teachings on it to give that dark purply swirly spherical space. Words is so difficult. But when you when you feel yourself really clinging to your anger and identifying with it's something about giving it space like winning a be the face means that you can actually say are right. I want you to get bigger because there's always a little hope you're going to get rid of that sucker. Let go away saying I'M GONNA I'm GonNa have the courage Feel you fully. Show me how big you are. In the anger turns into rage in its mugging or NATO or its nuclear and you say show me how big you are because the compassionate heart is even bigger see how big it is or the pain you have already shown me and when you invite it open and let me feel. Let me see how big you are? It gets bigger and bigger and then in its own way. Not 'cause you want it to or do anything it starts to soften because you're no longer resisting if you're actually. This is the mechanism of giving it. Space Right at the poet says rights. Fear is the cheapest room in the house. I'd like to see you in better living conditions. So that's the contracted state. Let's open the room up to the sky and see how big the fear wants to be. Oh it's not for its terror. My whole bodies in here or at a new name. It terror terror show me. How terrify terror overwhelming? I feel like dying dying dying dying. And then you know twenty seconds later dying diagnose the thump is. I wonder what I should have for lunch. Because the mind has no pride and things and then you realize oh I you know. I felt the fear. I felt the death. Now we're onto the next thing. And it liberates you. Yes I the terror than the lunch. I love that I somebody. I forget who I forgive me but they taught me the technique if I feel this way forever. That's okay and for some reason other beautiful to no more resistance. Another way to emily age owner changed. Here's please because we're in the pandemic and you know it is we're in the middle of it or maybe near the beginning we don't even know it's so uncertain but it's already not only caused enormous amount of illness and death There's the you know the medical suffering of but there's also you know the economic problem. They really an economic issue. If you will. It's not just a health issue in. We need wellness and we need to connect. But there's one other thing it's not just a health. onomic dilemma. We're actually in the midst of a moral dilemma. It's highlighted that of spiritual dilemma. How do we care for one another in this culture? Who HASN'T DOZEN? Who gets in doesn't do you know. Do we have a set of morals that guide US human beings as a society or are we guided only by each person for themselves or each nation for itself. I had written down. I think this is a crisis of capitalism. It's like we yeah. We voted in trump. Remember the people. I remember some people like he's GonNa run the country like a business and he is on life support. I don't I want my mother deciding what they're gonNA do with me not Walmart you know what I'm saying. Like profit over people is not a good model. I think we're all seeing that. Yeah exactly it. It is a crisis who capitalism in its crisis of our A moral crisis really of our values and one of the things. It's really evident even though we're now using technology more than ever is that no amount of technology. Computers in internet and space technology and biotechnology nanotechnology is GONNA save us on continuing warfare and racism and Environmental Destruction on those things continue. They can even be exacerbated by because the root of warfare and racism and climate destructions of the roots are in the human heart and they really are in either we respond to the world with create an auster hatred and divisiveness and fear and ignorance or we respond with wisdom and clarity who respond instead of with hatred with love instead of green we respond with mutual care numb and mutual support and so the outer developments of humanity which are stunning At this point where you have you know the Great Library of Alexandria in your cell phone in your pocket in your pocket along with you know. Twenty two million cat videos or whatever but you have everything that the outer developments now have to be matched by inner development of humanity or things will get worse. We are as the chairman of the joint. Choose so staff at at one point. A Nation of nuclear giants unethical infants. And so the real call for us. Yes is to be activists in our way to contribute but to actually revision. What is a caring society and that caring society can row through all the you know best aspects of capitalism individuals creating things but it's gotta be Compassionate. Capitalism has to be capitalism based on the values that we care for one another and that we all compete in in our creative ways. We find creative ways to do that. I wonder what you'll think of this. I I watched this. Dave Chapelle gave a graduation speech some years ago where he talked about the difference between good versus bad and better versus worse he was making the point that most people are just going like is better for me or worse for. May Or is it actually good or actually bad? I found that really. Convicting a lot of people are just like well. A pizza would be better when we don't really have any connection to the cattle industry or whatever that might be or the people that are delivering or the or the corporation that's delivering what I'm not saying. We have to overthink everything. We've lost as you said any sense of ethics because capitalism doesn't really care about ethics just cares about better not worse better better better more profit more profit not what's right or what's wrong and it's true that it can be changed because it's a collective agreement construction you know the laws that say a corporation has to be treated like a person you know will is that that's a law doesn't have to be there or the. The Prophet of corporation is the the highest value or the value. We could as a society decide and many people talking about it. The value of business is both to succeed to become profitable and to care for its workers and environment and the people in the community it serves and those could be paired values and they are and and when they are something different happens and I was talking to my friend Bill Ford who runs Ford Motors and I. I just respect him a lot. He was in early environmentalists in an industry that fought tooth and nail against it and he stood up for that and now Ford is turned some of its factories into making protective equipment. Face masks and you know ventilators and so forth and you know they're doing it for free. They're giving away what I know that he does is he also Mix Personal Call to the families people of the employees who gotten sick and died from the Cobra virus. And so you know. I see the possibility I you know. I've seen it on lots of levels we can do both Can do both but it it. It would make a magnificent society and a magnificent world and we are ready for reset at a regeneration and this is a time where we can rebuild keeping in mind. Climate change keeping in mind social justice so that children when they're born are are invited into a society that says wherever we born. We care for you and I'll tell you another story. I was at San Quentin prison with my good friend. Jacques were done. Who's run the prison project versus called the insight prison project inside out different in San Quentin in many prisons and he does this remarkable work and I've been on the bikes been the president of order one choice but anyway it was a graduation day for a program one or two year program Grip guiding rage into power. Get a grip so where we are in. Probably the biggest room in San Quentin and at one end on this very low stage are one hundred. Twenty men. Wearing Warner boards in graduation gowns. Like a college graduation and so forth and on the other other side in the room or about three hundred people who included corrections officials members of the state government and legislator local mayors family members and so forth and the Valedictorian of their class stood up and he gave a bit of a little talk about what they learned from anger management and mindfulness and Yoga and all the things conflict resolution and then they all stood up and they read a pledge. He said we have been vile he said. We've been violent men. We've we've tried to solve our conflicts in our problems through violence and we have pledged to make to you and they all stood up Pledges had we have been violent men and from this day for we pledge that we will never again use violence to solve our human problems now very moving on and then I gave a little talk. I was invited to and I gave a little talk about that. It's never too late to change and that we it's never too late. We human beings always have the opportunity to turn the course of our life in change and renewal as possible and then my good friend Louis. Dragos who I mentioned the he'd been the poet laureate of Los Angeles among many things last year or so got up and he was going to read a poem in his poems are very kind of deepen tense. He reads him like a Mayan sacrifice. They describe you know his times on the streets and with the gangs in working with people in prisons in Juvie and all these things he just tells the truth as it is so he's going to read a poem but as part of the Valedictorian streets speech. All the men who stood up and said they we been violent men they also said one other thing is said we want to apologize for you collectively for all the harm we've caused for the suffering to you. Your loved ones your family in this day in our graduation along with having never to be violent again we apologize for all the harm and suffering. They've caused in in people's lives English world so we got up and he said I can't read my home. He said I can read my poem. 'cause y'all apologized to us he said but it's we need to apologize to you and you looked at these men in. You said you almost all of you were born into communities where there was racism where there was a lot of drug abuse where you were a child in there was violence around. You know where you weren't tended in you weren't Cared for and you weren't given the resources in the education the values that every human child should have you know and where you were thrown away in many ways is said so. It's not you who need to apologize to us. But we look at you when we see who you were as children and who you could have been and we owe you a deep apology for what happened to you. In the room became silent because told the truth a nanny read his poem and everybody was ready to listen. Wow that is amazing. It's interesting in all of these stories. The importance of vows and declarations. And I know when I've heard you speak live. You're you're a big proponent of like what is something you WanNa vow how do you WanNa Start? Your morning every time you read it. I write it down and here I am with it not claimed on my wall. You have a hopefully this rings a bell but you have a poem that you've read about architect of peace. Is I from this? Wonderful Poem Poet. Diana Ackerman was brandon. Schools called school prayer. She wrote it in response to well. If there was going to be prayer in the school what might be and she writes in the name of daybreak in the eyelids of warning. And the way faring moon in the night when it departs I swear I will not dishonor my soul with hatred but offer myself humbly as a guardian of nature a messenger of wonder a healer of misery. Peace and You know that's the language of a poet and neo. I think it was William Carlos Williams who said you can't get the news from poetry but men and women die every day for lack of what is found there now. The poetry carries the human heart through its voice. Poetry is the music of language in this poem. She speaks something. That's not just the words but an invitation to our to a deep intention a sacred intention and when I teach like you say I often by people at the end quiet themselves and go inside and ask if I were to make a vow if I were to set the compass of my heart today. What would that be in? It might be as simple as I vowed to be. Kind about ask in the morning. What would love me do today? That would be enough. Wow It is interesting you were saying. And that's so well heard for me that a practice is important. It's fun to talk about the oneness. It's fun to talk about the void. It's fun to listen around asses. Lectures does come down to something that we do. That changes how we are and how we perceive reality and something that Richard Moore said that. I thought you might like us like even if you don't practice. Whatever you're doing is a practice is like if you're without judgment. He's like if you're looking at a a new clip of pornography every day. That is a practice we have the study is just we put monks in MRI machines. We can see what that's doing to your brain. Whatever you're doing is a practice. I think what people like you are saying is. Let's bring some curiosity. I love that word. You use and some intention -ality to that practice. Let's be the architects like she says architect a piece. Let's be the architect of practice and ask. Coz OFTEN ARE PRACTICES? Are are really unconscious habits. Attract IT OWN NEW. Bring about a Graffiti or even sexuality is if these things are anathema to spiritual life and somehow but sexualities part of being newman. No but the question is you know. Can we be can we tend it would love? Can we tend ourselves in one another? However we'd your sexual right in we do in a way that enhances our vitality in our life in our love at anything can be used or misused in of course it a thought pornography versus eroticism eroticism is very powerful and can be very spiritual and beautiful but the isolation. I think that's what I was drawn to with the pornography. Example is the image of the person that's alone that shut off from other people that just letting machine soya my my my inner sense of it is. We're lonely culture. There's a book that was just published called together by Murphy who is the surgeon general under Barack Obama and he said that in his research as the US surgeon general. He found that more than half of what walks through the doors in our clinics and hospitals over the years. It's not physical. Illness is illness of the heart. Is Emotional problems you know. Loneliness is a big part of it. We can be electronic but we can be tremendously isolated and I don't judge that I mean people find their ways to manage it they have a drink. A smoker tope. They do this. They do whatever. But I'm more interested in the loneliness underneath. And what would it mean to be? Friend Yourself Bashes into that loneliness so that you're not just Habich really lost in it or in. What would it mean then when you do so to somehow find a way to reach out and make connection even events as the Beatles to all the other law other low may chief Paul? Yeah but I I WANNA know two things my friend first of all You know we've been talking for more than our which I enjoy. Would you like me to lead a short meditation or not with that? Be Good for your feet. I would love it and then the other is you know you spend much of your life as a comedian and we really haven't been doing comedy on this. I wonder what you have to say about that. Well I'm not too worried about that. I it's funny because I'm a comedian. This gets classified as a comedy podcast. But if you listen to Sharon or Krishna dos or anybody else or Richard Rohr. It's not the funniest show in the world. We I said we saw being funny two hundred episodes ago so I am not worried about that when I did your meditation and part of it which I found strikingly powerful considering that you're willing it to happen. It's like somebody gives you a gift and you open gift and one. I saw a couple of gifts. Actually but one of them was just silliness. I know that that's something that I love to give people. And just some joy and taking them out of their heads and being silly and laughing and playful so I find a lot of value in that but the other one was like I find sharing wisdom to be a such. It is a funny reality. When you're woke a whole damn thing is funny. It's all people. Think that virtual reality somehow about being somber and over yet. You know you meet people like Archbishop to the Dalai Lama and there's wonderful their joy. 'cause they laugh How can you laugh so much when the tragedy to bed and apartheid people being killed and around you and so much stuff a donaldson? They've taken so much for me. They take in my country in burn Dr Scriptures and you know destroyed. Many of our monitor's why should I let them take my joy and happiness? Yeah so joy becomes if you make injustice the only measure of your attention somehow you lose the beauty of life itself but isn't that contemplation to to look at a tree and to lose the label tree and to allow a tree. I'm not saying it's funny. But it is joyful and it does make me laugh and some and some of them are a weird shape. The does station with them. They're funny. I think I watched Jerry Seinfeld special recently and I was like a lot of this has spiritual underpinning to I know. He was into Buddhism. I don't know if he's necessarily doing that on purpose. But I'm like the fact that anything exists is funny and is sort of like worth talking about and the fact that none of us are talking about it instead. We're going around. Talking about pants is also really funny. The way that I try to communicate that to my audience as I say we're on a planet and I'm tired of not talking about were floating in space and we're all going around talking about sandwiches and what shows were streaming. Nothing wrong with that. But we'RE FLOATING INFINITY FIGHT. It's billions of galaxies and also kiddos. You're GonNa die and YOU WANNA get get real about something here. You think you exists the whole galaxy. It's all revolves around you. You go with you as you think you have time but the you know the reality is all this tempted to end the whole world. Which is all you know is your will. That's GONNA end. Hey how about that? This is like a dream like rainbow. What are you going to do with that? That's what I hear the Dalai Lama when he's saying I'm laughing all that tragedy. That's happened to him but there he is in that moment in that dream feeling joy. Why wouldn't he? You're really kind of seeing the puppet strings or at least being liberated from a little bit you start to get the smile of the Buddha. That's what that's what drives me to to the Buddha. My Jesus was always looking so sad on the cross which you know is an artistic interpretation for sure but then Luna always looks so happy that's the cosmic joke. I think Jesus is also probably laughing a lot too. I show yes. Yeah but I to answer your question. I'm not too worried about this. Is this is. This is so feeding to me. And what's beautiful about comedy and I see it happen in the song and the teachings of the Ramdas retreat is when anything can bring everybody together. Whether it's a beautiful chant like the story you told or laughing. Something happens where the individuals are forgotten in. One thing starts happening which I'll tell you another story and then just a two minute meditation because I know your audience is already very advanced. Now you're in show Bizz. Though this this wonderful Japanese Japanese professor who is one of the Japanese living treasures mum out but was also a student of Carl young endure call for the Union tradition at come to address in a very big conference in the US of unions in San Therapists? Any got up very kind of dapper lovely gentleman in his sixties any told a joke and then he paused Said said. Let me tell you why told the joke you said in Japan? I would never do this. He said if I stand up in Japan what I do is to apologize. I he said because in Japan everyone is already together and when I stand up I separate myself from it so I apologize and we're all together but here in the US you're all individuals. And I tell a joke in everyone laughs an hour together and I can teach you that exist. I haven't heard it put so perfectly and that I've said this a million times. That's what makes a heckler or somebody WHO's drunk so offensive it's disruptive it's offensive. Were trying to enter into a state of mass hypnosis. You see this at concerts to where everyone's clapping everybody's singing were trying to become one thing. So it is a spiritual pursued doesn't matter from talking about sack cer- taking course the handler is part of the one. If you're in if you've got any jobs which isn't this great you know. Our Universe provides hecklers as art comedy. Now you see where I started the podcast. I asked you as it all in the game. You're now doing that to me. And isn't the heckler part of the game as well? It is and there's a part of me that goes. Don't you see you're waking up? We're about to fall asleep and have a great dream together and you're the guy that keeps going. I like Miller lite or whatever like you're in the way at a certain point. Yeah that's why most you'll get like two three tries to three Shutdowns Bounds. And then they'll be taken out like a any club. Nowadays is going to take a heckler out after a couple of tries but it gives them the give them an identity they get seen for. Mo- JAG THE UP THERE. And they're jealous and jealousy is like nobody knows who I am. I have something I have something fucking to say. That's right you will hear me. We'll Jack and I exist. And there's something tremendously painful undermines all the magic you're trying to create and it's also really poignant at completely agree and I'm not making this up. My heckler line is what's going on. I say what happened to you today. And ask where to you every single time it's happened. It something heartbreaking. It could be if they're if they're open. I'm not saying they lost their job. That's like a movie cliche. You can hear they just wanted a little bit of the blessing. It's the priest. They want the person playing high priest of the night. The comedian to acknowledge them. And there's healthier ways to do it. Just tell me it's your birthday. Yeah but everybody wants so those you who are listening unless you're driving but these days nobody's driving so that it's it's safe to say this will do a two minute meditation. You want you can close your eyes but really just let yourself get quiet and take a couple of deep breaths to release any obvious tension. Now feel the whole energy field of this human body that you can have you. Aren't this off your the consciousness that was born in it but you get to inhabit. It's your vehicle this incarnation and feel your body. The whole field of IT. There's tangles in sensations and on and cold and there's also all the extra tension you carry. 'cause it's tough times the jog it's tight your the shoulders carry way or the belly and you don't have to fix anything. Yeah but just to become aware of it with loving loving mindful loving awareness and feeling how much her body has been carrying in these days and weeks without trying to do anything to fix it or change it just softened inside your body with compassion soften hold it with compassion inside your body. Thank you thank you for carrying so much. Thank you for trying to take care of me in feel how your body responds. Just this little bit of loving attention. Thank you thank you for caring so much. I'm okay for now your body softens and its own way receives the thank you bring the same loving mindful loving awareness to your heart. Notice what it's been carrying. It might be longing. Love might be ocean of tears degree for what's going on in your life. You sadness might be anger or fear the mind and heart together. Get APPREHENSIVE. Been worried anxious. Feel all the things you're heart is carrying and wrap around with compassion. It's trying so hard. Tenderness heart thank you. Thank you for carrying so much. Thank you for trying so hard to protect me and take care of me thank you. I'm okay for now. Notice what happens in your heart. Is You say thank you. Hold it all with compassion and feel how around the body and the heart and the mind. There's a spacious awareness that's always present consciousness who you really are witness to the cosmic dance. The drama can say thank you to your body to your heart and mind because who are is the vast timeless awareness that is love that includes all things rest in relax in the openness in the great heart of compassion. The last thing is you can ask your body. What does it need from you in will answer? You can ask your heart. What does it need from? You netted answer. You can know longer to thank you all. Thank you for listening in experimenting with his meditation. Thank you Mayor Pete. Hey look there you go. You got it now. We're Buddhist. Yeah Jack Thank you so much you are. You're you're like condensed milk. You know what I mean. Yeah OVER SWEET. I gotTa Yeah. Yeah Bill I mean you're the good stuff but like tight and packed beautiful. You remind me of grade teacher Ron Johnson. And I'm so glad that you're here and that you're sharing these ideas. Thank you my pleasure. Thanks to everybody who listened. Would you say this is silly but we have the final thing is we have the guests say? Keep it crispy. I tell you what it means but you could just trust me that it means something good all right and again. Jack Cornfield DOT COM. If you really want something good there you go there. It is now we're in showbiz lowered Showbiz. Thanks take care. Oh you gotta say you gotTa say keep it crispy he'd be crispy say it with the right tone of voice. Yes eight and the Jack Cornfield certified Meditation Teacher Voice. Keep it Lincoln crispy make you so much all right really appreciate it all right. Bye Bye bye. Say Fifty Chris. I'm so crispy.
"You. Walk. We're with. Look what's happening, Weirdos? Sorry for the bad audio quality here in the show. And I took a little day trip and I didn't bring my equipment. I'm recording this on my phone, but rest assured this episode sounds great. This intro. It's GonNa. It sounds all right I hope I hope everybody's doing well This episode is the local natives. One of my favorite bands they sat down with me months ago with Taylor and Ryan months ago months months. The reason this episode has taken so long to come out it just kept getting pushed back before Covid, and then covert hit, and then for a very long time it just seemed so sort of weird to not good weird like bad weird to put out episodes that weren't addressing what we're all going through, and what the the climate of the of the? The world is right now, so we. We put it in favor of new episodes, but here's I. Guess it's like another. World is a blast. From the past. We were sitting on the couch. talking. Katie was there, too. That's four people in a room. It's a wild wild thing, so listen to our carefree discussion of eating ice cream and getting coffee. Coffee and going to the mall of America I don't really remember what we talked about, but we weren't worried about infectious disease so this. Hopefully it'll be a nice little break to remember what that was like. This in every episode is brought to us by our friends at Charlotte's web. If you're feeling a little stressed, highly recommend their com. Gumy's they are. Are The makers of the finest CBD products in the World Co two Charlotte's web dot com slash weird. A couple of people pointed out that the website wasn't working. It's now Charlotte's web dot com slash weird and use Promo. Code keep it crispy nineteen as you guys. I only promote products that I actually use and truly love speaking of which we. We. Have our friends at Meoni's I gotTA check. What am I gonNa Lavender I wish I was wearing a more fun pair, but the point is I heard about me undies on another podcast that I was listening to and I realized I was grown man, and my underwear drawer was uninspired, uncomfortable and unbefitting of my lifestyle, so val and I did a complete. Complete underwear overhaul both of us. It felt so good we got rid of everything. We owned all the holy week risks. We banded bad underwear, and just did a top details me undies overhaul, not just pajamas, but p notches underwear, excuse me, but PJ pants as well and I gotTA. Tell you it's made a huge difference. They are the best fitting funnest. funnest most fun soft softest underwear I've ever owned in my life five times software than cotton, effort, micro modell fabric and ask her what underwear you wearing at this moment. Is it making you feel like you're sitting in a heaven cloud now? Then maybe you should reconsider like me invalid. It is wonderful. You can even sign up as I did to me on. On these membership, which is a monthly subscription that sends new pairs with fun and I mean that they always put me in a good mood. Fun, funny, interesting patterns, or just lavender on now right to your door to make sure your on these drawer is always stocked fresh fund and ready to go I also highly recommend their lounge pants. That is completely. Taking my PJ drawer. They have sizes from extra small to four xl. So this is for everybody. You want to show your support of this show and do your. Do your booty favor. Get fifteen percent off and free shipping. It's a no brainer. They have one hundred percent satisfaction guarantee for fifteen percent off free shipping go to. Dot Com slash weird. That's me and he's DOT com. Slash Weird speaking of wonderful things for your body. I've also turned onto something called to Heeschen nonni juice to heat known. As I call it as I call it, so made by our friends at Nonni new age. nonni juice. nonni specifically is a plant based superfood. Obviously, it's a plant. That is shown to boost your immune system and your overall health, energy and vitality. It's been used for thousands of years in Tahiti for its medicinal properties, but now I was skeptical. At first they have published and peer reviewed studies that show clinical double blind trials with placebo that show four ounces of to heat, known Jew twice a day. Which is what I've been doing increases your N, que sal count. That's your natural killer cell count by thirty percent thirty percent, helping your immune system stay powerful, thirty percent, more and K cells. It's a little sweet, a little, tart taste, a little bit like pomegranate juice to me because they became. became a blended with blueberry juice, as well two hundred and seventy-five nutrients, and fight on nutrients, including key vitamins, minerals and antioxidants I take it in conjunction with a supplement they co sell defense, which clinically shown to help your body fight inflammation inflammation, of course, being one of the horrible arbiters. Can I say arbiters of so many ailments, usually a bottle of self defense, and a one liter bottle of to heat known you as a hundred bucks, but for listening to the show you can get both for just forty dollars and show your support of this always free podcast. Go to know new age dot com slash weird forty and. New Age dot. com slash weird forty and get yourself some to heat known Ju. I think that's it. That's all I gotta say Oh. We're GONNA listen to a song for those of you. That don't know as if they're here. I'm sitting in my car. They're they're not here. They were here. Taylor. Who I love. They were great. We're GONNA play a track from their newest album. which as I say, this interview is my favorite of theirs. It's called Violet. Street, start listening right after. Get on spotify. This is one hit songs from not record. It's called. What am I gonNA? Lose you? We're going to play that and we're going to roll right into the interview. Biegel to each other guys stay safe. Stay healthy stay. Happy Stay Sane. And get into it local natives. Only. As. A. In hottest. Gone. and. CAST. On Cabinet. Russian. Finally. is in the. Lynch. Zip In. In your body, stirs. Someone down the. Gate. Only. See! was. See. Show, that's. Weird for me, I'm just kidding. Weird. I gotTa Keep It cool, cross promotion. Because I listened to the Lok nate. Okay. Do you want them run? We can trade off halfway. We're very Ervin. Eric Yeah. Do, you get. The band. Are you guys like staying in moving? The symbols remember the driver for the police would move the symbols, so he wouldn't see stinks stupid face. That's. You must know. Yeah I've seen. Them fighting and they're all wearing my short shorts and they're just going Oh. Starts Give. Heidi. Towels. That is so the best one is the eagles one we're on stage. They're just like onstage thing in some ways. To the machine he watches every music doc. He knows everything about I love music more than music I love. You don't like sports at all, but I love sports docs. Music Music I'm sorry to interrupt is. Great. We know we've been. We on. The PR prep. He's GonNa. Interrupt constantly if he's not interrupting. That's a problem episodes where I stop interrupting look. You're just bored. Attica sign if I dislike guy. Anyway I think. The perfect expression of music is a music documentary where they tell the story, the storyteller vibe, and like somebody dies, and all this because I'm with you, I love him. I can't watch them. What do you mean you can't watch? I can't watch them. It's like. Bone. Close really yeah, it's like. INSTAGRAM and seeing. Metallica one and you had to which one? Admiral. Yeah. That's my favorite one. Just move stock. What does he keep saying? Whereas the Eagles won that yeah, and if we don't have? To this time, he's a great point on. is, names Kirk right Kurt is so reasonable and so we. Is Soft spoken for what's wrong with a solo and they're like. We WanNA. Be Modern. Wanted to be new at all for and then and then he makes the perfect point for people who have seen this movie that if they like, they don't WanNa make it sound data to a certain time goes. If we remove the sellers, we'll be dating it to this time. We just like so hyper conscious. Go you see and now the. Old, he's right complete. We now know that Kirk was kirk anyway going so you were saying about Eagles right right? Right the thing I plan some. Politicians rally and they like start playing some like feel good like soft rock song and you. Just kind of keep backing up off the microphone feedback. I think. As soon as I, get off stage I'm GONNA KILL YOU OH! God their lips and the whole thing. They hate each other. If you listen to this podcast Maybe you already know this. I love having to keep a song going while some emotional components. Just found out your wife's leaving, and you have to play in the fucking beef fifty to like you have A. lobster. Like you're so sad. Doesn't stop. Yeah, keep going channel that that like fine rock lobster, yeah! But End, yeah, how do you like about rock lobster I'm sure that there could be any wife just left you and he's. Playing out of a phonograph in a haunted cottage is very like you guys playing softly like your biggest hit. It doesn't matter how upbeat is playing softly in a photograph. You guys get along as a as a as a rock and roll band. Yes, we're the opposite of the. I know really kid I know. It is I'm glad most boring I. think it shows, but it goes back, so tell you don't. You don't be calling. Marty there, yeah, we're on. Taming goes other name, Tay Mango. Mango no, no, it's related nothing. Oh Man I used to say, I think it's related to mango from SNL also. Chris Catan. On could be also known as one beer taste, so he would just get like pretty pretty wild on one. Yeah, that's still the case. Is it. Has You will that could go two ways one because you're not a big drinker, too, because you're such a big drinker that your brain knows where you're going, and it's just like. Just give him a blackout now. For Survival. One beer down, put them down no I'm not a huge drinker at all. It's just has to do with my low tolerance. Substances See okay, so you don't watch music documentaries, but you guys are so clearly like a modern ban in the way that I think I'm a modern comedian meaning I'm not going out and blowing rails at the comedy store. Even though there's a there's a piano made out of mirrors in the green room for cocaine purposes, but it's happening still regularly in the comedy world among certain. I don't think so because it's not happening in so wikileaks. Is it evolved? It's just the whole industry the whole scene it just responsible respectful thinks a loving. You don't think hard, oh. We keep bumping into like old any old guy in the music industry. Yeah they've got team not. Stories, they tell them over and over. Just like that was a different era. Yeah, yeah, lot of that reminds me of wanderlust where Alan Arkin is I. Think it's Alan Alda. selling the same story and Jordan Peele goes. Thank you. He's just gone. Yeah, yeah, yeah, but you guys it wasn't you that decided to be sweet clean boys. You've just seen become sweeter and cleaner. Even sweeter than the sweet seen. We. You know we're a sweet clean as they as they came man. Yeah, yeah, visit. I met when we were twelve years old. Swedish Day of seventh grade we're. Playing runaround sue. In Your Garage, Oh yeah okay yeah. I remember UB sue. Around sue. I remember first day of first. Seventh Grade Oh walked in and sat next to you, and we had to build a bridge out of paper clip to see how many pennies it could hope fell over like this intense like rock dot. Stuff that you want to hear it yeah yeah. Yeah yeah, but isn't that good I. Don't understand especially nowadays a modern ban I don't think you can do it and have a serious cocaine habit. I feel like, don't you feel? I feel like when I watch early? SNL, for example I'm like some of these people are incredible and some of them like I. Don't know if they would make it today. Because things have all evolved. They were great for the time. and there's no disrespect there I'm just saying like I. Feel like there's so many bands you can't be fucking around. Do you agree? I don't know if I do I feel like some people seem to be able to heart coquette. To hand. Over there listening to this Oh, they listen had in the years. They listen. Okay. Ideas are part of the head. Guys get your local natives is a fun to play with but I'm not GonNa do that. As Ara Yeah I. Don't think you've gotten that before, but I'm trying hard not to give you guys anything you've gotten before. No, no, I appreciate it. So where were you when you met in seventh grade? We in southern California Orange County Oh. Yeah, Affluent. Like guess loaded right right? No! Ryan more than me. We practiced in his garage, but I think it was. It's like upper middle class, but not the Orange County every when we went to college i. come from Orange County and everybody saw the TV show I haven't seen it. I'm basing it on just not I. Haven't seen either. In Orange County, there's a lot of champagne popping. Really that was not like. Always stressed about money, but it was a good like. middle-class! Church we went to. You was like mega church like. Rick Warren. SADDLEBACK church Elizabeth more yeah yeah. He Purpose, driven! Life Oh yea! Our Church has bestselling Graham world. Yes, it has volleyball court escape ramp escape. Ram Esteem Skate when escape ramp. Strain Mario Brothers. They did have a fake like. Serving on the Mound Hill. Dams yeah parking lot. It was wild, so there is a little of that purpose driven life. Guide the pastor. Alice and he's still. Time, we would go regularly until my family just moved away like two years ago, but I would go every year for Christmas really. Tailored SORTA converted me. He suckered me into it. Remember Church because the church camp. Amazing Oh. Yeah, Christianity General. Does that. Still feel bad, there's. Yeah saved. And when I saved them, and it was Kinda reluctant I think we talked about it. Earned was the three hundred episodes was, and so he's my best friend and I and we both got saved, and we both got married, and then my wife left me and I went off and got crazy and he never got to have a crazy time Early s not that obviously very happily married. He's a wonderful family and stuff, but he never had like a rock and roll well, not a seventies, rock and roll exactly. Yeah you, you save Taylor and no dealers. They pulled Ryan into. Did you ever do church camp like out in the woods? Do reads. This was like mostly pink law a week. Paint ball ropes course. skateboarding on dirt. So Fun and so spiritual, an amazing and we're twelve by the end. It was a good vibe, right? Sold me getting close I and then your whole family. They're not all the. Hans. We. That's your last name. Yes, behind the haunt like Attila. The Hun gift. From the main guy. Ryan Hans. Ming. Questioning. On us. So you liked it. Man I remember. Being intense. Soda I remember getting very very silly on Oh. Yeah, man, and then a Lotta Nine Sundays. Is this like? Are you guys like brandy? Did you find music in the Church nobody? We did play. Ryan ended up going to pepperdine. University Malibu and we did play a Pepperdine University concert as local natives with brandy you did. Yeah Brandy Joe. Brandy. Yeah. That is it was unexpected. It was strange, yeah. They're going to talk about the battle of the bands. We did there to where it said. Local natives ekes out a win like that. Was the headline this paper? Yeah, we barely barely. I think like the other band covered like outkast or something, and the crushed it and everyone was on their feet, and then like we lost I went to Ucla, and we played spring. Sing Event and we lost. What does that mean all these embarrassing things would event. What is a spring seeing like this huge? It's like colleges have typically this big show, and like the whole college comes thousands of people. Yeah, and there's musical competitions, and it's like a big battle of the bands in many categories, so we eked out a win at Ryan's College my college. We lost. Eked out joy this very well, yeah I. Remember Doing Comedy Contest. It was very similar. There wouldn't be a guy doing covers where there will definitely be doing outcast the calm and they're dealing like the hits doing like that. Petition and be like which one yeah was really. And how did you say I always came in second? Except maybe like once or twice because I was a sweet clean boy, so I'm doing bad Jerry Seinfeld impression, it was all right, but I'm like toothpaste. You No, you could use it for other things I. don't even know what I'm doing. seinfeld vet, last night valid I went out last night. What was it and he's like? When people go, and that's really saying something. You don't have to say that if you said something that saying something you don't have to say and that's really. Not. Really, and you know what Matt's. Got It Brazil so I'm basically doing that. And then this other guy who I was always sinked up with like when you're going grocery shopping, and you keep seeing the same person the same I'll like me and this guy were always in the top two. And he always one and he had some really really funny, but very very high school college. This is right after cargoes like twenty two. Okay, and he would smoke me every time and there was a weird thing that if I went after him, ever get that phenomenon. Where like if you go after you guys are like I don't know I. Don't know how to put that without sounding like. Complimenting myself, but let's say you're more textured more subtle than maybe an outcast cover band more more a layer. For diplo. Is that related to what you're thinking sort of. I think continue with your point. My point is you go after then everyone's like. This is right. This is this is who we are, but if if dirty guy went after they'd be like. What are you talking about? Party? Time the best. Party time when then I was like, but we can have a fun time just with Soda Pop. Everyone's like yeah. Let's give to Soda Pop Guy I. Really made a difference with where you went. I have to imagine that's the same in in a battle of the bands situation. You don't want to follow boy crowd-pleaser. Now probably with like festival. Culture now because we only did a few bands, but now. FESTIVALS OR FOR DOING CO headline tours. Opening for certain band. Did you ever like change up? Change Your set at all for that moment. You're like. Oh, no I'm going on the party guy now ever back then I only have. Two values are not like no. There were no value. I have ice packs. And then I have retainer. And then I'm going to close with the bus right so like we except for high school catalogue, which we probably wouldn't remember. We know most of our cataloged. You remember what percentage of your catalog deal. It's a great question. Sometimes someone a very dear of mine will text me something that I said he did it this morning and I was what you're talking. Talking about so, that'll happen. Okay, but like. If you bring up a joke, there's a good chance. If you give me a couple of minutes I, remember it. Yeah, but sometimes I'll see abandoned. People want them to play an old time like I don't know if they know it like you guys don't probably don't listen to your old Shit as much as maybe we are right. Why would know? Once a year once a year once a year. You really you do it on purpose no. Not on purpose, not planned, but just approximately once a year. You'll give it a list, does he? He'll be like it's actually pretty good I can listen to it and give me a report because he knows I. Don't listen to it ever. Zero zero listen, but sometimes if you do if you can tell by my spotify if you look at my what I'm listening to on spotify. If I'm listening to myself, it's because I'm going to a GIG where I have to be clean, so I'm listening to my old staff going like Oh. Yeah, remember it, but it's so weird that it's in you I have to imagine if you started playing a song that maybe the whole ban wasn't ready to play like that thing. You do style. It's too fast I know he's just played with the tempo. Everybody would kick in. is in your muscle memory to send your body right, so you met as children, and then when did you start tinkering with the with the two tones? Boy. Talks The four strings and the Oh, I didn't know what you meant. When did the kick? Other like people in the band, the two towns. Yeah, okay, but you guys are you. Guys are the people that started the band. Forgive me. I tried to research. Like, the local data's put out a record every three years. Here's the record you got planned to the apes guide Banana Pajama. Got Hey look over. The cliff that actually sounds I'm pretty sure much better than our actual. You would just read or Wickham pedia page after this. Yes, no I did read it no choice. that. They. Would give me great pleasure and none of your names are hyper leg. The Mike all of this podcast is for you both have independent Wikipedia. Can make. A yeah, we didn't know shit so far. We know now that you're from because it says you're from silver leg or like your base Silverlake, so we're neighbors, but like there's no. They're from Orange County. There's no. They met when we tried to bury that information. You're dealing it. Yeah, we're like. No. We're from Los. Angeles we are cultured members of. Of being at Escape Park with the Lord. Again buried. skateboarding sales. Yeah, this might be the most. You talked to the first. Reading I'm honored to get the blues. Yeah I would. Do you think we must be the smallest guest you've had on here as far as? WIKIPEDIA LINKS GO I. I don't think. That's true especially music now I. Don't want to sound like I'm putting down shovels and rope, but I have to thank you. Guys are on a similar level, shovels and rope. Shovels drops even know who they are boom. Okay, boom, good good music, doc, shall we don't see that. Shovels then rope listening and they're like. Oh! I was at a golden gloves party, and I met the guys that made the peanut butter Falcon, and then they told me they listen to the podcast and I was I have to remember that I'm so I. Openly ship only on the morning show in the job. Those are the two what what else? Oh, that's a lie. They might be listening. Shovels row. Probably are listening band Jack About. Did you go to? Gas I'm only trying to make you feel welcome. No I do feel welcome. You've done a great job. Absolutely hope so. Let's tell the story because it's never been told. The camera. Five is gonNA. Go Yeah, totally straight to Ryan I. Giving a speech together. Our senior year of high school boy on apologetic on creation. Is, the scientific proof yet Christianity. Yes, it's defend the art of defending your faith the. I could never have evolved. From nothing, it doesn't make sense. Complex parts that come together. There's twenty one parts of the eye and they have evolved together simultaneously. There's no possibility that they could have gone by one which isn't true. But we told our class, so we were so fired out of. Our. English class or something and you're allowed to talk twenty minutes about. It, so we're like. We're going to go all in. Oh my God. We're very together, so you're Super Lidge, and you're like Kumail. Have a bit about that. Where somebody, a young girl one. She had a creation science exhibit, and it was just a jar filled with nothing, and she was like I had a jar filled with nothing and I left it there all week, and there's still nothing. and. That was her proof that like. It's like Kirk. Cameron says like his proof. We've got banana because of banana. Like look at up. Let it fits in your hand perfectly. It's look and I like people that know Shit about bananas or like well first of all that what's been modified like bananas in the wild like no shit about the size of donkey Dick. Like Chiquita has gone in and splice that so many things. Get a woman herself to Seinfeld where he's like, he's twenty five eight hundred. HAS IT changed in my entire lifetime or something you? Know, there's more colors. There's different plies and he's like the point stands. Church store. There are more different you know, but I do remember that being actually probably the most climactic moment of like being a religious person, because after that I think a Mormon kid went and did the same thing and I remember at the time being. Judgmental Well, you know. I was like I was like man. This sounds crazy to me. What do you talk about you know? And then I was like Oh my God people doubt about us and then I'm like. Am I that like fundamentalist guy, and then that kind of started. This did unraveling. We'll because I went to school. I went to pepperdine after that and took all these like. You know history of religion classes and I was like wait. The book of Genesis is sort of based off the Sumerian creation myth and we actually don't know who wrote Matthew. Mark Luke and John like. It's like it's all like man made. It all started like falling apart from. I feel like that moment. Directive Align, but that's what felt like. That was a big movement I remember when I was in Israel studying, there were a lot of Mormons. They're also visiting the Holy Land Same. Holy Land. and. Although, this is their Holy Land to I guess there's because remember their Jesus count. But, anyway, so the way that they seem goofy to us, that's such a brilliant point because I was walking on the beach and they had a guitar, they looked exactly like yeah, but they were singing some goofy Mormons. My ear, yeah, yeah, yeah, it was like some song! Like these fucking Weirdo! My camp and I was like seeing about dolphins and Jesus riding on them, and it was like no. You're the Weirdo as well like that. Why is that any less weird then what they're doing? It's not totally, but that is an important moment, we. Bonded I in your faith well. How did you Save Ryan? Him going down the wrong path or yeah. Yeah. Rest I was because your family. And now you're going to purpose endo genuine and in me I. I remember even after that because I think mind. When a few years later, my kind of declined, but I remember being like. Eighteen years old and I was flying across to Europe for the first time and I was alone on this plane, and you might remember from your first time being on a plane. It's kind of like an insane experience when you're in the middle of the ocean. And, I, had this thought. which was you know if the plane went down and died I? Don't want that, but it would be better. It would be better than because heaven. Yes, okay weird. It was so comforting like in that moment of Welham alone. I'm in the middle in an thirty thousand feet above the notion. And it was so incredibly powerful and comforting. Eighteen so is in mead. That was in me for a pretty long. You really. It's really interesting that you took that way. Because most people believe in heaven or think, they believe in heaven, but still will like really really really really fear death like really really not right I. Say I had to overcome. And I'm interested in your perspective. Because I know you know with Br Bell and we're and there's kind of this desire in in me, and I feel like us. In most of my friends who grew up Christian to find like we have as you may, you missed. Yeah. It's just now. It's oblivion like I was like enlightened. beat the fear of death. You know right in my youth and now. Now it's a much crazier. Let's funny. I was listening to old, Ritchie Reuter this morning I try and start my day with Ritchie. And he was, he was talking a little bit about that and the narcissism of believe we've made this individual achieving faith that has like it is in the exclusive business of saving individual souls right, and as soon as you think of yourself as an individual. You need your like your the main thing. You're the point of this. Remember that feeling as younger yeah. It's all kind of all eyes are on you. Yeah, it's big brother protagonists. Number and you didn't steal that. And now you're good, and even you on that plane crash. Be Their kids on that plane. On saved on that plane. Crash I'm good, and I'm not saying you sociopath them I'm saying that is how I would have been too I'd be like I am good, and that is what happens. It became very personal thing, but when you really zoom out in any spirituality, see that everything is nudging you towards a collective so like the idea that it's not really as about you as you think it is that you were always home. There's nowhere to go, and there's nothing to be afraid of. And that's what Richie says like. It's just as overwhelming sense of oak heinous, so it's not this test. It's not a Bolivia. I mean oblivion is is sort of a an interesting idea. The Buddhist would say that's wishful. Thinking that's I've said that many times before thinking that you're going into nothingness. Buna Swish Thinking Bat. Thinking that, you're going into. Nothing is enlightenment because you're so out of it that you're going to go back into the void. He's there heaven right. What everybody happened yet, but they're like you have to work really hard towards that and you're going to be reincarnated. Liberate your, that's incredible. I mean like whatever you're looking at. I mean except for fundamentalists, and and there's a lot of them in this country for sure and other countries that are saying that you're fucked or hardcore materials that saying nothing. The real right on mystics that I enjoy saying like don't fucking relax. So. There's also like a heaviness to and I feel like. When we were growing up, there was this like existential dread, omos like for this young kid, but you're like thinking of like heaven and Hell and like you're. Battling I it's very I read I read your or I listened to your book. And now there is a few moments that I just like totally related to you I think there was one where you're at the pool and your dad says something like legal girls or something. You're like the how shall not look upon a woman or something like that? I'd say father committed in in your heart. Never, married people. Your marriage. I, have you you're this kid your God. What is wrong with my kid because you're just like taking it so seriously? How to say like I understand. Your earnest desire to understand these things, but also it's okay to be young and to be appreciate beauty, and to appreciate your sexuality. That's what route said He. He said he read my book and he was like I. Wish Somebody had just said it's. It's OK totally like you're okay like it's not a bad thing. It doesn't have to be for me. It was less, but it could be your anger. It could be your pettiness. It could be your narcissism. It could be your addiction to power your addiction to love accent affirmation, whatever your addiction to specialness. They're all these things, and they're all sort of in the system, and it's okay like I. Wish Somebody had been like I wish I could be like. Yeah, those. Are beautiful girls but I I was so conflicted with myself that I had to be like well, that leads to how and that's the only thing that mad. Totally when I went to Israel I got rings at said. Eternity in Hebrew because I was like. What is the point like I? I was probably like you guys. What is the point of being cool here? Because if I'm on the plane that crashes the minimum fine. WHAT'S WEIRD? Though is then we wake up and what is having forever goodness? Yeah, there's no. You're out there, so you still exists. But you know that God exists, but you never in having go like what is God route outed God exist before like what is going to be fine is be eating Ambrosia I. Think I think it's. Really Great Yeah I, think is fantastic. The problem with that is obviously. We all know this. You only know fantastic because he felt horrible. And as soon as you have fantastic, you have to have horrible. Otherwise fantastic just becomes your normal any drug user or any food addict or any caffeine addict knows this like it just becomes the new normal affect the way that the three of us feel right now would be high to an ill person. and we're just like. Normal and that would have, but we never really played those games. That's what I thought. Philosophy was philosophy ended up being way more like wordy and very heavy I just wanted to be like somebody to walk me through so having just forever singing with God. That never gets old. No there's new SOG serve. Brand is there. My brain still allows for that because it's infinity. Yeah, but you can't. You can't like figure out infinity. You don't know what that feels like. Why am I arguing having? Because I I just think hypothetically kind of defending. Our youths idea of that I guess because I think idea of infinity in it I could see it really not relating to this like earthly shadow of reality. I understand what I mean like it was. It was really purported to be some, but then, but then on the other but I. If you believe in that and you believe in Hell. Eternal suffering for people. Why wasn't this like? Insane emergency alarm going off. We have to save like everybody. That's like what blew. My mind is like. No one else has taken. This seriously felt that though we felt that, but then I'm like. Oh, we'll all the people. Why isn't all like our parents or whoever? Unraveled exactly. Getting. That's the beginning of youth and fervor. Like. You're young. You don't have that much going on your mind. And I'm not saying you're stupid I'm actually saying you're pretty pure. Received this message, and then you do I remember that was one of the first cracks. My faith was I was like. Why are you a car salesman? Working Tirelessly All movie like feeding people and just telling because we believed in an on-off salvation, you either prayed the prairie. You didn't totally and either watch the Jesus film where you didn't. And then he started to get like there's what we say. We believe in what we actually accented a million times, but like the people down in Korea town here in La with the bullhorns. That's not I. Don't think that's correct but at least I believe that you believe it because you're like. I don't know, but they're saying like wakeup like fucking. Always defend the the people with the sign, and the Lauren right because I'm like they're the only ones like everybody else is a faker. Who's just like I believe this. New should be freaking out. Saying that. Yeah, totally like broke it. Open for me was seeing someone like that in Santa. Monica like just all the fighting. They were like they were just getting these verbal crazy arguments with people on the street and I'm like this is like I can be in a band with. Yeah, yeah, or it can be this guy. Yeah. Well, what was it I had so I had to take something like philosophy stuff in college, and that was another thing. I read a cure guard. Yeah, and he's talking about the night of faith or like. Abraham being this like total like archetype of faith like he's GonNa go up and kill his son, and we're all like Oh such like a a faithful man very good and you're like. You're going to kill your son I would call the cops. Yeah, and like you're like an insane person and I'm like Yeah I. Don't WanNa be the insane person. That, Guy, right so so are you still chillington. Yeah, exactly. Exactly so what I'm unclear on is if you're, are you still using Christianity and your understanding now of like our reality, and yeah, the Cosmos for sure, and how and how about Christianity Not Not Christianity Brown? The ME. Take this pill Christianity. Christ you're. Okay. This isn't supposed to be about me, but I'm going to put it to you. Christ being a word for everything when the Big Bang erupted, that was Christ, so Jesus as a person that realized his union with Christ. So when he says no one comes to the father except through me, He's speaking as the Christ Jesus. Christ and we've all been in that place. Some of US have some of us have it, but you get into that place. If Deep inter-connectivity meaning the Christ is also was looking at your is, that is the best way that I can put a why you could say. Why are you saying Christ? Only because that's the story that I was raised with so I have a psychological leaning. There's a war story that we're star wars going and seeing these. What I have to go back to my peanut butter Falcon these wonderful movie. Definitely important stories and not just made because they have to make money. Yeah, they're important stories. Yeah, one hundred percents. Jj I haven't even seen the new ones. But your argument for keeping it I'm saying my relationship to to Christ is is a little bit star wars. But there's also something going on when I when I read Jesus words and more specifically when I hear from people. Why does it matter that Richard Rohr is wearing like a frock? Does. We're a bunch of fucking dumb dumbs and you the Cross and that's what you saw when you love ritual so much. I'm glad because you're human being in those matter. Yeah, you know what I mean you guys make. Our and sound and everyone's like. Cry and it's a ritual. It's fucking church. What you guys choose. Yeah, just you I'm saying those are the end of Avatar. It's a bunch of primates who get in a rhythm, and the beat of the drums syncs up our hearts, and we dance, and we clap, and we sing, and we and we forget ourselves and when you forget yourself, who are you your? Christ you're you're you're getting closer to base business? That is what meditation is when you stop thinking, but you're still there, so if you stop thinking and stop telling yourself a story, be still exist. What is it that exists? If you stop saying I'm Taylor I'm Peter I'm this I'm I. Don't have to do this, but you just are quiet stillness. As I say my baby luminous emptiness. You're just light emptiness. What is that? That is what I would call crisis. What's looking at your eyes? It's what's in an atom. It's what's in everything. It's Pan En theism as Richard roadsides. Pantheon God is. Not Everything is God but God is in everything. God is the is a metaphor for animating principle of everything, even inanimate things so so using it as a boat to sail the. I go out. Who Cares. Another Great Richie Goes I. believe that a heart surgeon is one hundred percent doing the work of Christ. Does he have to say or know that he's doing this fucking cares. That's tribalism. He's one of ours. It's like imaginary fantasy draft. We got him. He's a Christian. Is Your net if I was a kid and I knew you guys love the Lord I'd be like well local natives. That's one of ours. Ego Narcissus I'm going okay great. We can have them on this side of the wall and on the other side of the wall metallica. You know what you mean yeah fucking budget nonsense. I've been doing metallica concert. It was wonderful myself amazing. Manson sure. Talk about symbols you WanNa get close I I haven't been to a Marilyn Manson card. I can't speak to it, but I'm saying like going into darkness is another way to understand all right. It's not like. Let's just don't look over there. Don't look over there. That's like psychedelics. It's always like let's go on. Some terrible journey was the point of that is because it's like. Can you see me in everything by was? If I make my bed in the depths, you're there, so go to a Marilyn Manson concert and really trip out on the idea that in my world view that it is. The same thing that's animating Pope Francis is animating him, and that is all in the oneness, and that's okay as opposed to going like well, this is evil wants. You'd think it's show Biz. It's totally right. I don't know it might be true evil. I only say that because I don't know. I was just watching this part of the one. That's that's. That's the real trip. I was just watching Well I. Just Watch Echo Canyon what debt? It's a the Jacob Dylan. Laurel I watched that, and then I just watched once upon time Hollywood me. I've seen that five times and I. Know You have okay. Longtime Listener I meant last night. Who The guy who played Bruce Lee that was. A. Real cool. Yeah, so, but you just watch, Echo the canyon. The two things which covered you know heavily like the same similar. You know it's all the sixty S. And then these two really different takes on it, and on the Kanye was like the most kind of lighthearted version possible of it then once time Hollywood is. everyone everyone is petty. You can buy pillows stuffed with my hair clippings. Sleeping David crosby pillow. I smell a little weird. Don't you think they should cut their hair? No Man, I think Italica your new metallica yeah okay. Yeah Trim it almost come ahead nineties METALLICA. G. Some kind of monster. Bringing a therapist, yeah, on the lyrics. So, what was your point? Then you watch once upon a time in Hollywood. And which it evidently sends you on a wicket pedia page down the the whole Manson murder, because it's you know very Cathartic and fun I was. Oh spoilers in probably no spoilers. We shouldn't do spoilers I. I'll just say I was laughing. At the end of once upon a time in Hollywood. Hysterically! redemptive. Yes, so even know. We can ruin Sling Blade Yeah Remember Sling Blade. Don't abusive father, and at the any kills them with the sling blade and you're like. Joy Yeah Yeah. There is a weird. I don't know I know what you're talking about. The end of once upon a time in Hollywood is violent and everyone well, maybe not everyone, but most people that I know are like really into it going on there. But, he does the same thing, inglorious bastards and He also did it in one other film Quentin. To of changes the History and lets you have a blast. Of like pointing at that idea that the universe is trying to redeem itself. It's working towards closure that mean everyone gets a for Mercedes and everybody. That's ever been murdered. It's then that's sort of like the Egos version of it, but even when you watch a very simple version of just revenge I think you're sort of like. Yeah, that's sort of a metaphor for. In the long run, so what Tarantino is doing its, he's redeeming it through a story and a story. affects people's consciousness. So even though these murders happened in the movie. Maybe it's different. And that changes how we look at the story and you're talking about symbols and liturgy. Church in costumes and the Cross and movies are a part of that, so you're you're sort of even though the facts of what happened remain how we think about it is being changed in a pretty global way like a lot of people are thinking about things differently, even though the facts remain the same and that is. Not a literal redemption, but there's something going on. We're we're like. Are Agreeing that this is good is a mythic reinterpretation of it, which affects our psyche. Effects are. A cultural subconscious one thing I found interesting about it is how he kinda a made hippies. The bad guys, which obviously is tired of the Manson thing, but in general like the sixties and with cameras like the hippy sixties and they're held up is like the ultimate heros, right of like American counterculture, right and that whole film. It was like no like these stidham. Love it whenever he's. fucking. Good we married so. It's fantastic hippies. You Know I. Sort of I was GONNA say. I have a love hate I don't have a love hate with hippies, but I do see both sides right. There was this awakening in the sixty s, but then it was sort of structure. Lewis and it and it didn't have a lot of depth so even the Beatles experienced that, so the Beatles got turned on Delacy, and they were sort of like Oh. There's a spiritual dimension started meditating, certainly affected their music, and then Haight, Ashbury and all that stuff starting to having it just acid parties with bathtubs full of LSD and everybody's just tripping their balls and dancing, and it's like well, that's. It was George. Harrison said he went to yes. Go, right. To and he was just like of course. Oh, this is seen 'em all. It wasn't quite. Right and So close to being something glorious Ramdas would say that to. It was like there was this almost lift off in the sixties, but we weren't ready. He was saying that LSD was making us read. Chapter Seven before we had read chapters one, two, three, four, five, six, so like people like jumped. Pretty deep level rate audio of all one. Yeah, and then they interpreted that to be like well. Let's not work. Let's fuck each other in this van and that's. The perfect expression of realization, I, don't I don't know I don't know there were probably some really glorious hippies that were. I don't know, but then there certainly were hippies that were just in the same way that they're hipsters fake. They're probably wonderful hipsters, and then there are people that just like. If I wear tight white pants, I'll get laid. You mean like okay. I'm not a jock. I'm thinking in terms of trying to recapture this this whole generation of that we up in in this church, and had this amazing experience like so much communities so much time in the depths of spirituality, and now being devoid of that finding a new way to reclaim it well, that's why I think you might find it psychologically beneficial to find people like Richie and rob that use Christ symbolism. There's something really great about. Saving. And I do I can see that is. Did you shut it and then go back to it? Okay well, that was one thing so I ran into you at the rob bell thing. Yeah, that two weeks ago and You were you were so tired? I almost felt like I felt so bad to me. Like. We don't have to do this right now. I was like I don't even have to say. Like poor guy. I barely remember that yeah yeah. You want to eventually ask you about Your hand interview me. Well we? Just had a baby. Oh, yeah, it's the first local natives baby. Low School. Nate Nativity. I wanted to have the Nativity. Almost but. Yes, so you still rock with the Jesus. No, I don't, but I was like really wants to. He's he's like he wants to. Do it. Yeah Yeah. That's an okay thing like the the the Hound of heaven thing. There's the symbol system chasing you at a certain point, it can be fine to sit down with that dirty dog, and just be like all right. What do we got sitting down with that? 'cause running becomes your identity but I. I I think there's just anybody worth their salt is going to be like like a Ritchie is going to be like. It's either this or something else. It's okay, right? Somebody's saying it's this I have small group. You do YEP now. Yep which is jest me and three other best buds talking for three hours about our lives. That's. Way No oh. You just have a small, but it's based on small group comes already redeeming it. Yeah, and we have meditation Meditation Church. It's not, but we're doing now. Through Queenie and Mark Mark also. And we do want to sing worship songs. But, nobody out. Nobody else's down for that, but we meet Ryan does. What about the small group of the band? We also like I feel like that became a weird way like over like religion or something. I. Have the unique experience of performing for large lar- larger than I'll ever performed for huge masses of people doing the same thing, which is what spirituality is its relationship? Yeah, so big Ricci. Roy thing right He. He talks about the trinity being similar to the atom, the neutron and electron like everything nothing exists isolated, and religion is all about flow, and God isn't the dancer. God is the dance itself, so it's not as dancing the universe. Is the dance right so when you're doing something like that? That's so fantastic. You don't need me paraphrasing it poorly. On that youtubers. It's all. Okay but I'm saying you don't even need someone to explain it to you. You guys are performing for these masses of people. Locked into the same thing. That is totally yeah, that's. Honestly. From. That have been like in a weird way more visceral and more real than anything like I felt when we were. Going to church high school and Steph. For sure feels. Be doing totally there's no other reason to play thousands of shows. Yeah, like yeah, it's that's. That's also the. If. You start like identifying too much with it, and then maybe like there's a couple shows where you're not feeling that you're not into it. You're like. Oh, no I'm losing my other religion or something like it's like I. Don't know right. That's. Just the right. Yeah, we have to like it whatever whatever yeah. We were talking about rob show, which is called an introduction to joy, which is fantastic and valley were extending it. We were talking about it last night where we were trying to even appreciate loneliness. We're even trying to appreciate doubt and sadness yeah. Rob Is certainly to talk about this in his live shows. He doesn't that was her. Thing, what do you mean? The ROB's like vortex imagery that was like my favorite part of his last, just talking about like joy and happiness on one side, listening to some fun song, and it's just like silly. Yeah, and then there's this like vortex that you can be cynical to stay on the edge of the vortex, or you can like dive down. Like. We're all GONNA. Die Like it's way worse than I wanna go way worse than like Oh. Yeah, Netflix, because that's. No we're all GONNA die one day, and if you can get through that and come out the other side. There's a joy right that you feel and I do think going through all the shit. We've gone through like with religion with like ups and downs with the ban. It's like you have all these new found like appreciation on the other side that are. Deeper more real. I guess in a way. It was all about ECCLESIASTES. Which is people no I think a little bit. Maybe I don't know where it's the book. That's like a real bummer. Like everything is meaningless. Meaningless actually translates more vapor which is like in an astro physics sort of way literally true is that everything is vapour, and when you realize that everything is vapour, you can really get that joyful experience of like. Vapor is despondent today. That's a fucking. You can say yes to any. And appreciate anything if you realize the fundamental miracle that anything is happening at all like your apologetic speech. Yeah, back in a trip that anything there is something really fundamentally amazing using it that something exists as an argument to be right, and that you're clan is right I. think is missing the point. Inviting everyone to trip out that something is happening and we don't have to debate. If something is happening, because it's happening, you are the happen. Yeah, that is the common ground of true spirituality going. We're all in this. None of us know what's going on. We don't have the full picture whatsoever, but this is fucking insane and Richie calls that he's always talking about people get lost in the specifics. They WANNA debate whether or not it's okay to get an abortion or Gay, marriage, they WANNA talk about whatever and they lose that. Dropping the everything in the always. What's happening? Don't you fuck in feel like did? Let's get lake on couch. Let's. Let's just fucking do it. Let's get stone like let's be stoned in our chat right? Yeah, doesn't it sound like? When when the first time seventy it was like okay. You're on a planet like okay I wanNA planet. Whereas the planet, words and space. In space, how far out to space go, and then someone starts explaining solar systems the there's all these millions of solar systems, and there's millions and billions of planets and billions of stars and all that stuff. Doesn't that sound like something that if there was an old school God just like a guy with a beard who's making a world to play with and kind of experiment with dance with? Doesn't that sound like what they would do to just be like? Let's just make it so weird overwhelming that they'll stop asking questions. Because like when I'm just like what's in forever. Where the end of this is just keeps going forever. It sounds like what you would say like kids like parents hiding. Christmas. Presents you just be like well Santa, Briggs. Shut up and he can French fries. Yeah, it's sounds like a trick. I mean it gives you perspective. All you have to do is think of that for a second like Oh like. freaking out about then he WANNA be materialised. Stay in the physical industries about. A second. You're like okay this, but then it keeps going like we figured out. There are billions of stars, and then we figured out that a the exact same magnitude, but in but smaller. That's right, but like we're all vibrating subatomic particles. Chambers the biggest yeah, so the movements of molecules is similar to the movements of planets, and we're just like it is how? Upset about traffic. Yeah, that's sort of Rob's want is vapor is becoming traffic. Even that becomes a miracle, so it's not being a phony. Just like everything is wonderful like I'm a simpsons, the band hooray for everything like that. That makes me feel so lonely when people are just like a couch, look the couch to miracle and. Shot up Dan but when you're just like. Anything is anything, but you need to like. It's not what you see how you see. And the first thing that Jesus says in the Gospels going back to people, mega mega of horns, horn, megaphone, megaphone on yeah. Is Re right so everybody thought that men. Stop sending, but repent actually translates closer to change change how you see so now necessarily what you're doing again I'm going to say worth their salt any mystic worth. Their salt knows that it's not really what you're doing. It's how you doing so there's actually that's why I'm saying like. It's possible to go to a Marilyn Manson concert, deeply present and juiced and connected transient. Actually that's right whereas we're like. No, that's that's for church and it's like Joey. The whole point of church is to give you that feeling. Feeling and then, when you leave the church to maintain it, and to realize that you're always in church, and near, always that's why it has that impressive architecture, and then go out, and you're like that still happening when you look at holy geometry and the windows. That's what's happening in your cells can win. Where can you go that? You are apart from it, You're always with it even when you're down or depressed or sad or broken lonely. That's the and Richie also makes a beautiful point where he's. He's like that pain is what brings us back to relationship, because if everything was fine, we just go off into little cubicles and be fine, but pain and broken. This is what makes us need each other. He's got an answer for every. It's not even an answer. Just sort of like a clue. Something on the win. That says like we're designed to need each other. He thinks that's one of the reasons why the sex drive is so strong. It's this clue that relationship is God. That's why it's three. Three, that's why it's trinity that it's flowing thing moving between it's not you having it and then trying to get other people to have it, so you can be in a building and know that you have. It's going out into the people in the animals in the atoms and the planets going fuck. It's just this one thing and you're at home. You're at home. You're at home. You're already fine. You're not loved by God. You are God's love now. You got me preacher because you look like you need. The band's Chaplan. I feel tickets, baby. He's GONNA come up. He's GonNa open up the show. Preach Ward five minutes. God's love shot up by drugs or kicking. into. You have to wear a sign. Your but I do. Feel like that was a huge thing to learn as kind of the flow thing like you can't capture the good feeling, just stay good like you're thrown at. You have to like at some point. Feel bad. Opposites thing and Laughing shake, we would learned early. Go Right Mike. All right exactly right only exists because we know what left. And Richie says we don't come to God by doing it right. We come to God by doing it wrong and look it Jesus on the Cross. It's this whole embracing of winning through losing inclusion of this. Is this to this to my? My girlfriend has this. She's being RAHM head. I don't know if that's what you guys have. God. I guess. Ramdas head yeah. She. It's like that page from be here now. It's like on her computer. Hippies, make cop cops, cops, hippies and it's like. Can't I can't remember the rest of it, but I don't know why. That keeps popping in my head because it does feel like you're never going to vanquish the other side, or you're never gonna read yourself feeling. Exactly being like this isn't permanent. I'm GONNA as deep as this goes. It's also goes that high. Compassion, and and yes, to nature right, we can see decaying leaves in the woods, being eaten by bugs, and it's easy to fall thrive on shit and death, and yet when I have haters that I see a online or you guys have haters it's. Harder I. No, I don't either, but if it comes across by force, yeah I so much harder for me to just be like. Of course, hippies make cops cops make hippies. Successful Comedians make haters. Like what are you talking about? This is the game, would it? Keep bringing up all your your favorites like Alan. Watts. He also talks about that like critics like the like. Yeah just like you're gonNA, make these creative things. There's GonNa. Be Critics exists. Just you know you exist, they exist. Hand in hand. As soon as their spectators, there's critics and to be able to say yes to it. I love what Andy Warhol says he's has make art, and while others are deciding whether or not, it's good. Make more art. That's creation nats, God creation is eternal creations. This is remain Naser. Man had a great. Drying about those creations fade creation as eternal like it's never even if the great Alan Watts quote he talks about. If I had to explain reality, two children in this book called the book which Lewis Black recommended to me. I think it's wonderful. He's like there's times when the world is. There's times when the world isn't like. As soon as there's an earth, there's going to be times when the earth is like thinking about eternity. Course. It's never he goes. It's like the hand on a watch. It just goes around and around and around there signs of this, and there's times of that, and that's ecclesiastes that ecclesiastes where it's time for pizza time for war. It's all kids. Learning to say Oh, the horrible beauty of it all, and that's what Richie says is everyday. You try you sit quietly. You have your small group and and you meditate. You're trying to get into that irrational or I. would say trans rational plays of being able to say yes to everything including the horrors. Yeah, but it's actually harder to say yes to the beauty than it is to the horse because we're drawn to know poison we'll use. Immediate assignment. It's like. Owens like when it's like good, the winds at your back. This is how it is, and then you really feel it when it's headwinds. Negative and you take for granted the other time well. That's rich Roy to man. There's a psychological thing. He calls it Velcro Teflon and he's like. If someone compliments, I say the local news is my favorite band. That's Teflon. It just slides right. Yeah, but if I say you guys are fucking hacks. I hate that whatever now. What is that what you're telling the truth? Yeah. I can tell you I. Don't mean it can be like you. Guys are like I don't even want to say it'd be. Has It worked and so does sharia? Pockets and talking about how he hates people that say one hundred percent actually. People that say hundred percent he would do it as a joke, because there would be a law and go one hundred percent and I'm like I know you're kidding, but I like it. Just, can we get? Would he? He got hip to the game. Like get some momentum. It's hard to hold on to the wonder and the beauty. That's even in the nightmares. Yeah, but we have these phones that are constantly I take the weekend away from my phone. Now I haven't been doing it. I, do it really do it really do. You WanNa. Know what here's here's a little PD. Love Yourself Life Hack. Okay if you need to, I'll go on the computer and the computer has your text the computer has. You'RE NOT GONNA. Sit on! Your opening and then you clothes it, and then it's off and you never touch your phone and then the next time you do. It's like touching fucking bag of diarrhea like you don't. You don't want it. Yeah, you get so addictive invades your body mmediately, and let's be honest when you're when you go into the local maters twitter. You're looking for that. It's like cutting. You're looking for for the negative guys yet is it makes your Heart Jack Up? You get excited. Dwell on. This is around US thing to. He's like it's entertainment. You're entertaining yourself because you don't want to just be being, it's hard. Yeah, well. That was the crazy thing, so sound like a total square, but I just I just did acid for the first time like Nice ride on, because everyone's like first time but like. Where like two months ago in the thing that was there was a bunch of fascinating things, but one was when we hated my phone. I couldn't even look at the screen freaked me out, and I just had to put it away. New Light Blue Light. I was like I we were, so we went up my girlfriend. I went to the desert. We rented like Airbnb like dome. On Yeah site. Yeah Yeah, she and so we took it at like nine am always do it in the more active and we just party. We dragged the couch from inside like out on the. ICE Everything, all the cliches things like are true. Yeah, and it wasn't. It wasn't like Oh. Cliche, so it's lame like I was like it makes sense. I. I'm being. Totally and they so I've been I've been trying to meditate like every. Time. I was just GonNa. Say Like I was sitting on the couch when it really started to set in like. NAUTA was kind of dancing and she could see. I was laughing like a baby like she was his dancing just to make me laugh. I swear like I. Don't know if it's been like five minutes. Yeah, five hours, and then like I would even try to talk in the sentence would start, and as I was saying and I was like how long have talking? When did I start the sentence? Your understanding eternity back to what we were talking about is actually timelessness. Yeah, it's not like this never ending crawl of time. Yeah, it's completely outside of time which goes back to. Our young cells that does sort of exist, but one of the I suppose. If you're having a bad experience, it can be horrible, but one of the great things. When I took on my fortieth birthday, the day was a week. It could be weeks. So long and you're with friends and loved ones and your dancing and you're in a beautiful place you like. Thank you for slowing it down. It's like somebody like that really. Yes, totally, it doesn't feel like that. It's a slog now. Just like this moment has everything. Yeah, so I'm just GONNA stay here I've said it a million times at one time at this house was on mushrooms, and there were other people who weren't on mushrooms, and they were talking about where to buy an Amazon Alexa and I couldn't stop laughing, because everything is here and they were thinking it would be there when they got an Amazon, LX. That's microwave. Jesus going look at the birds. The trees and you're here. You're here. Yeah, Dude, we're constantly doing it the trickiest thing to happen and I feel like I. Heard you on the podcast about Ramdas like now that he passed away. It's like you feel like somehow closer to him. Yes, and like so not a my girlfriend. She listens to him all the time just like his. Lectures yeah, so he existed as this voice for so long in my world, and so now that he doesn't have a body. It's almost like now listening to his voice like somehow closer. And I was, so. We were listening to music when we were on acid and. Oddly a lot of it was like too much I. Songs I loved even were too much, but there's this one John Lennon Song. Hold on, it's really simple. You just as like hold on John John. Hood on. It's GonNa. Be Alright, and I was like kind of on this Virgil I felt like things might go dark if I let them or and it was weird, it was as if she had been through the same experience, and he was saying like I was like he's talking to me like I'm closer to him now than I've ever been. We've both shared this experience. He's probably you know. He took acid. Right felt this same thing, even though the League Thing, it's so simple. He's. He knows exactly what's going on the oneness? Would you trip out on the idea that the consciousness that's looking out? Your is is the same consciousness that was looking out Bob, Lennon John John Lennon's. You are getting in touch with that one so easy listening to round us like it was me in him doing matt when you dissolve. It sounds so. He can't be dead like none of that mattered like decades between us like. You know he's experiencing with me. Right now are saying about once upon a time in Hollywood. Is. It's consciousness reinterpreting history matters like I think that's part of the thrill of things in a story. Going better than they did. In history is our interpretation in our subconscious and our collective consciousness as way of reshaping the future. Yeah, like if you think about if I you watch the fucking Sopranos, and they're eating pasta, and you eat pasta, or if I say your band ain't Shit, and you know I don't mean it or if I say you guys are fucking. Holding, church services and it's holy ground. You make fucking Bonnaroo holy ground that matters I fucking Zam. I changed your life. She's out on stage I go. That's a great. That is a great shirt. Actually look very rock and Roll I. Love It. Thank you, so you're the you're the. You're the mystique one. he wears all black all the time. Always like almost famous. You're the you're the lead singer with mystique. I don't see it that way, but I'll take it. Someone with mystique would say. With the stick would say yes. On an equal on correct. Be Heartbroken. Going mystique I also, just because you have dark hair and that makes everybody look more interesting. We were stuck in these. So, I wanted to bring up one thing that's exploded. This whole conversation for me is that we had a baby, my wife and I. Five and a half weeks ago. Thank you so much here. The Oh. Yeah, yeah, VINEGAR! Damping I'm camping, have you that rich blond-grey Quiz said that to me him and Kristen Schaal had a baby and they're like camping. Yeah, just that shift of consciousness made me I was going to appreciate anyway, but when you're up with the baby, and you look at it, like Oh, I was sleeping on Iraq so I just woke up in the middle of the night and looked at the stars changes there. How are you finding? I'm loving it so much. It's amazing. It's UN-. It's unbelievable and I still I've been. Without even thinking of it as camping Ben on the adrenaline like total crazy high of it you. Feel still still very much in the. Honeymoon phase. Yeah, I'm like sort of waiting for the other shoe to drop because it's just talked about so much, but I it just feels. Like incredible, and it's as new engine of appreciation like all of these conversations, everything is completely new. Yeah, after year now in charge of human life in the conversations. We're having yes, yeah, what is it like purpose and creation seeing that cycle seeing this little piece of the eternity playing out before you to see something that is you, but isn't you outside of you? Yeah is the whole. Whole game. Yeah, that's the greatest teaching of I. Don't want to say greatest, but it's one of the greatest teachings and having a baby is you're like that me, but it's not me, but I care about it more than I care myself. That is the greatest call, the relationship or God or the dancer flow or the play that I've ever had so. Yeah, you're. You're holding something. You ever peel off some dead skin off your foot or something and you just throw it away. You're like that was me and you just throw it away. You have the opposite. You have the most precious. Use Skin ever, and it's animated. Yeah, it's there and now you're learning I've said this a million. The first round US retreat so obsessed with not drinking off the second one after I had a baby. It didn't cross my mind once not drinking offer Najjar I, just didn't care right. It was like what the consequence wasn't about. Yeah, that's the guy on the plane. Crash? It's fine good. Yeah, that's the and I don't say narcissism in a bad way. I just mean we're all we all have to get over the first addiction, which is to ourselves your own ego. We're addicted to yourself. Yeah, and you'd be crazy not to be. It's how you got to get to a place where you can break the addiction you needed that. So what is what is the style of this baby? He's been super chill. Aerial Chubby Gary Chunky a chunk chunk. MONCUR's. REQ- became like like like seventeen days late, and he was big and. He's just yeah. He was happy he's. Yeah, he's I. Don't even have to you in here. Yeah, so he came in traffic. Yeah, and he's chill. Super Chill. How is the Labor? Seventy hours seventy seventy holy Shit. We're going to have a home birth. That was the plan and then thirty six hours of that and no progress so that we went to cedars, wow, and then thirty four more hours, and then it, but he was like fine. He was totally fine the whole time. Yeah, Super Normal Seventy hour labor and it was the coolest. Thing I've ever seen you know times a million I was going to. You're talking about John Lennon healing connected to his consciousness, and so we've been singing. WE HAVE A son beautiful boy. Yeah to him. And it made me I felt like the tragedy of John Lennon's death, and his son, and like I've felt the relationship. Obviously not really, but I just felt like tapped into. Is playing with itself in different forms and redeeming even storylines that aren't related to it through other people. Yeah, because if your consciousness evolving informed by his his is in a very tricky way. Because there's only one yeah. Because there's only one thing anyway, so that's fucking. Unbelievable, but that's what made me think. John Lennon Story Beers acid. Mine was having a baby, but we're having the saved. Because! It is sort of as you have a baby. I should have acid. Somebody sent me there was a craigslist or something where it was like me and six and my friends. WanNa take mushrooms while we watch someone. Give birth why we're willing to pay like I wasn't a lot of money, but thousand dollars total. Is there anyone that would be willing to let us what what's weird about indecent proposal it is. You and I both know. Okay, you gotTa take much in. They're gonNA kicking in an hour. Ninety percent chance these I was GONNA say knuckleheads, but these lovely knuckleheads. They're going to take it, and then the baby is not gonNA come. You don't know when that babies giving. Our. Wendy. Because the whole time someone was going you're. You're not going the whole time. It is the realist thing you could do. Yeah, you talk about looking earphone. A friend of mine just took LSD, and it was the first time that their boyfriend had taken it, and then they were like, and then we watched all the Indiana Jones movies and I was like that is so confusing to me. I don't want to. That was like when I'm in that place looking at whether it's with my wife, giving birth or on LLC, or in love or at a great show the last. That's why hate people filming Shit at currencies. That's that's just my own car. That's my own hangup. It's my own psychology. I can't stand it because it reminds me of myself. Phones are just how we're stuck in a really good for marketing. What other people's videos yeah, they're helping you but. That people at our shows really. Bad for your Joe, it's really funny like we actually. Our Fan base doesn't. Our shows much more than it seems like other at other concerts. It's like everybody with the phone. Yeah, ours kind of don't which is really amazing. Local native show then because all I want. We're playing this year. Are you in La where you play at the Greek? No Shit can walk to the. Can we know what can I drove by it to get here? Wow, come on down. That's awesome. You cannot intro us after a service, yeah! You at the. Hollywood bowl a few years ago. Did Ed basis kept bragging that he he says he's like best friends with you, but with me. Yeah, we know he's not I. Just Brag Seen Him in the neighborhood. You've seen him like once. He doesn't say they're your best. That's inaccurate. GonNa Talk to tomorrow I'll. Say. I'll tell you to a base guy. Yeah, but anyways we played the national there you did you got there at Astra's? You know I've seen you. Early Yeah Yeah I'm into it, and it's still a little bit light out that sort of the best. Yeah I mean. We had a good time going down I. Know I have seen. You guys forgive me. That the whole show was great, that was an opening. It's not the same thing you gotta come to a local natives show I. Know I know I can't believe you guys play the Greek how fucking cool with that. It is very cool. So cool. That's not. Mystique like to say, but it was very. It's the coolest. How does she feel BAFTA show? Or elated or both a good one. It's elated if it's not a good one. It's really it's so weird. It's the crowd. It's like I. Don't know if you feel this, but it's like I'm GonNa say. I agree it can be draining like it literally is like the most weird spiritual moment because it again sounds so cliche, but it's just like exchange of energy. There some groups said it's dangerous to get that connection with. You ever you attach your hose to them and you should have been attaching it to the energy above them. Totally I've actually had people explain that to me. What do you mean by that? It's if you sync up with a crowd and they're off. You'll be sort of I. Know this sounds very wh I'm just like I can feel it. You get contaminated by them. Whereas opposed to somebody gave me this children's book. I always forget what it's called. I think it's called conversations with God or something. And now when I'm performing for a crowd, especially big crowd, I like to think of each one of them as a candle burning. Because that's an image in the book is like the Sun is like every person in the world, but everyone's a candle, but when you look at it, it's like the sun, and that's a way to understand activity so when I project that on them. I feel like I get it back from them, but there's some crowds where there's just something collectively going. Going wrong with them. It's not their fault. Yeah, yeah, it's happening. It could be happening in the news. It could be happening. You know there's just different shit happening in our collective consciousness, and sometimes I can be very dangerous to sync with, and that's a risk as an artist, so you can sync with the energy above them. It's just a visualization is literally true. Yes, you picture like a blue cloud above them. Sync with that not with them. Definitely they're higher sense if we. Okay well I'm going to say two things one I think. So, we played thousands of shows and I think the first several years and one thousand shows. We felt horrible after every show. Tell me everything every single one. Because it was like we would come off stage, and we would talk about what we did wrong I. Don't know and it was the same thing about being so self-focused, and it could be these these little mistakes that nobody notices, or it could be a large. Mistake that? Maybe some people notice, but can you give me an example? You came into early on that or were. happened. Oh. You came into early. Yeah, exterior do. Usually it's like it's like I'm miss. We miss that harmony like the no, we were flat on it or I guess maybe. But? Usually it's like it's vocal or you can. I played your partner on to relate so hard is because I like to do impressions and there's some days I'm doing an impression and listening to it I. Don't like this half minos. That's my. That's my singer. Guy Who I know I can do this and I'm trying right and I hear it, and it sounds fucking awful, and that's what you're doing. After these thousands of shows you nitpicking yourselves nip coming off nitpicking the five percent of the show where we made the mistakes and I think it was the focus of the ego self and then I think. Maybe, you still struggle with I'm interested in no, but I feel like on the last album cycle like our third record I got to a place where it was only about connection with the audience. It's only. A hundred percent. For you bj I figured it out. Leading the mistakes, yes, it's like when you're making. Do you focus on the time where you miss their mouth when you were trying to? Trying to kiss them accidentally kissed them on the nose. And you're like who cares. It's it's it's valid I have gotten there with our sex is about intimacy where Zach's. The young man was like I've said this words like can. I cannot find a position. Where can see the Teddy's? owner. But like I feel that I feel grind here like it's so fucking embarrassing, and then as you get older as a band or a love maker. You realize it was about performance anxiety. It's like it's not about that drought, connection and intimacy. That's right and. The audience almost like appreciates things that go off script even more. Definitely show actually becomes more yeah. I saw the national they. It was a small theater. They were opening for their own movie, and they tried to play one of their old songs from like alligator or something. Magic didn't know the words, and they started the song three times, and it's the only thing I remember. Loved Yeah and that when I'm editing. TV Show I'm always asking the edited. Go back three clicks three seconds to be like no show me when he stammers. Knocks the glass. That's the whole thing. It feels like reality these days. Stop cleaning it up. Yeah, so you guys figure that out, figured it out. After, I would say after one thousand shows probably about this, though like so we were in your monitors now. This is like super boring. I'm interested. It's like we I used to love playing shows where afterwards we're just like sweaty, usually like fingers. Just jumping around. My ears are ringing, and it's just like those shows were so fun. And then there's something you lose by sealing off the world. Everything sounds perfect like somehow you're losing. Is it just like the atmosphere or something like? Is it yeah? Yeah that like which is why I always take my ears out, and you guys get mad at me. Then, mistakes, com. Yeah, but it doesn't matter. Then I should be proud of the mistakes that you're bringing to. Really. Check of course. I couldn't do that. Brian Regan. Who made this point? I've made it a million. The comedian as a musician, playing the audience so I couldn't do that I've thought about doing. Stand up with those huge airplane like. Complete noise, so you can't hear the audio your baby, but yeah. Exactly! Yeah, I don't like Gimmick. Stand up shows, but if I. Can't hear the audience, but like that's an interesting thing. Should you try and make it sound like she do one show like that? Because it'd be really when you're like you do a joke, you think is amazing and you're like you look like the audiences going crazy. Having sex in a sleeping bag. It's like it would be fun once. The whole you mean. Both people are in the sleeping bag or gesture. I think there's another person at the end. I realized I was just dry, humping the. Young. Like it would be funny at the beginning, but then ultimately it would just be a gimmick, but i. that's I thought. Take out your years men that there was a sound problem. I thought it was a Q-. People think when you do it. No, they don't. They know I'm getting connected intimate, but I mean what a monster! Some kind of monster! Oh my God Hatfield. Field. was there an end point to this? We we're talking about. Beings yeah, I, think I think the end of it was just being present that it's only about the connection to. Also I think like being event at least so it's not cool to say like you're really trying hard in a band like I feel like we. We WanNA. Play the next venue, but you quickly learn like that. Never End, so you're like what are we doing this for? You're not doing it to play the next biggest venue like have a huge album. Whatever because you're that? Never you never arrive. At never ends, so even if you're I don't know Jack White or whoever it probably never ends, so it's like What's going GonNa? Get you get you by where. Where you present, and I think it's in the making of the music in and being like grateful and president. Do it every day like I. Think we've slowly been coming towards that. That your performance just thinking about that today is it never ends? Yeah, like they're. Kind of crude image, but like thinking about Hungary artists, pigs, a little pigs and we're all. At the trough and we're trying to get more food, and and and that that can sometimes help me understand work relationships as your next to these pigs, and you're bumping up to each other. This is very dark and you're like Oh. These are my friends, but sometimes they're really just new people that are working at the same thing as you. Some of them really are Francis, fine. Yeah. That's not code for like I'm angry at people. I'm saying it just is what it is. You can't get this out enough to realize that the game isn't about getting to the next venue or or the next big guest or weird to square about it is. Where then the kind of driving ambition falls. In Your Life. I think say to get. Because I, think this is the thing Ryan I've talked about a lie, and and also have come to that realization like we are also like we're not a business. We're making art right and it's something that for us. He has guided our career. You know are are kind of the career that. As the central it Ha-. Yeah and I think that we have done that where it's been like there are these things there's ideas about. If you go in this path, you have a better chance for bigger success, and all these things that come within, but still you also. Can't you have to find this balance of being super like together and driven, and then we're going to schedule our tour. We're going to take this GIG and these vessels an cut out all this time and. And sacrifice stuff know there's still you're in the trough next to everybody in. There's still this part of you I assume you know you've you've gone to this place in your career by working? Really hard I kind of having some emission, right and there is a dance between squaring off with the reality that it's like kind of meaningless and that just being present is what we that's. That can be a luxury that you work towards. I'd like to think that I could have been. And sometimes people like Bob. Dylan or whatever and I'm like. Maybe they were pure the whole time you know, they seem so like I'm just telling stories with extreme I don't think but I also see you know better. Deaf means I feel like that. It's like we were saying about religion. You have all of the structure. You have all of this dog where you have all of these rules. Dot says you have to be somebody before you can be nobody. You can't start at the end, so you start in art as a business, you should look at it as a business as an ambitious monster. Look at my ambitions is aware wolf. He's aware wolf. He shows up all the time. He's great some bloody chickens. I'll send him out. I'll go get some flaking and I love him and I've made peace with him, but I let him steer so much at the beginning. He's not an asshole. He's just aggressive and then later. He's just what it is. It's like an. An athlete I've interviewed athletes. They go out and they let their where wolf play the right, and then later they find the balance, but that's not a flaw in the system to be the peggy that sneaking away from your trough and going like how do I get to that trump? That's all essential, and that's what wakes you up to the idea and having the clarity, the determined to be like wait. This game never ends. Some people never get there. Yeah, but having the ambition to get to the place where you can realize that the ambition is kind of a stupid game. Is Is. Okay. I was looking at like maybe the people at the very top of the pile whatever? Cold player Adele or whoever and just being like I. Always Wonder I'm like. Are they happy? That's always like my question because it's like. Obviously, they have everything. On it or something, you can't know exactly because I'm like who could be no, but yeah, it's like I always think of Mr Rogers right? He said in the movie, but it was a real quote. He's like the most important thing I'm doing right now is talking to you so that's a person that figured out how to be happy is not resisting. What's happening? What is I don't. Don't mind what's happening, so there's this guy j Krishnamurti I've said this a million, but he's like my secret I. Don't mind what's happening, so you guys say you're having a bad show. That is how you're connecting connecting with this. Sometimes, it's a scalpel and it's surgeon precision, and it was just perfect, and sometimes it's just like a bag. Addicts think I'm so sorry. Brothers bag of rubber dildos. But this is what I'm working with, or I'm working with my doubt or I'm working with my insecurity or myself hatred, or whatever, but like that is the vehicle to get you to go like this is what's happening and I'm GonNa flow. So cold play I think so many hallmark and other movies have told us that the people at the top aren't happy I don't buy that. Yeah, very good chance that the people at the top could be happy, but also the people in the middle and the people at the bottom. Did. You hear that Andre Three thousand interview with Rick Rubin. It came out like now it that one was fascinating. Because here's a guy I would also say is at the top of the game, and he was so honest, and so like now man like I. I like constantly. Don't think I have it I'm not good enough like I don't know if I even WanNa. Make music anymore like it was. It was very honest very real, and I think just another example of like you. It's a constant thing matter how how you climb. It's unless you realize you're already. They're exactly right. Yeah, so AKI tolls. That totally says like. Let's say you have a billion dollars in. In the negative house I've watched this. The number of people that I know that are super super rich. That are obsessed with recycling. You'll make problem. Yeah, you'll go like we're not taking the coffee lids off the coffees and putting this one here in putting this. They're like you're going to find a way to be unstable or you're gonNA find a way to be happy, but it doesn't really have everything to do with where you are, but he says you get the the house now. You're going to be obsessed with keeping it or you have one hundred billion dollars, and then you're going to be another nut job. That's like I'm going to freeze my head because everybody's GonNa, die. Going to download that conscious now you're going gonNA. Do you think yes, are you not? I WanNa you wouldn't do it. You mean not participate in the ritual of death that every living thing has done since the beginning things yeah. Dude that Black Mirror episode where they were living in to the female coupled. You know which one I'm talking about We're we're. Like Paradise Party town, Yes. Decides to like I'm slogged. Yes, I'm like so good. That's that's addressing what we were saying the problem of a forever. Yeah, you need the mystery now, but don't you WanNa? Do that loop and Black Mirror. which loop the loop of figuring that out and unplugging your consciousness you then I would like to know what it says. POSSIBLE THAT IF I. Go like the movie. Her and yeah dude be the universe being a backed up consciousness. He fucking kidding how? Does, that play every game. You can play absolutely tonight the sure. I have a feeling at a certain point. You'RE GONNA go, please UNPLUG and you're to try to remember your word uncut gems guys i. mean it, and then they turn you off and then what happens? Yeah, that's an interesting. You would do it. I would do yeah kind of like. My personality is to jump off every cliff. I love it. Yeah, that's I want experience everything. It's Michael. Gungor says in his wonderful book this he's like the universe is like a child being thrown in the sky by her father on the beach going again again. Yeah, that's creation. Yeah, it's an insatiable desire to play every game including incredibly fucked up, ones yeah. Yeah and I've said it a million I'll say it a million more. He goes. If you were infinity so never ending. What game wouldn't you play I? Mean everybody has to read this. It's what you should read it. It's incredible. It's a real trip and it's a great audio book because he's a musician. You Guys Gungor. They're great. He scored so like me like. audiobook should be scored. They bring the music and then you're like Oh. My God! You're crying and. Let's talk a little bit about creativity. Does that so when you're young, you're trying to make it your the thin pig at the trough, and that's an interesting thing because there's so many bands in the way that the music climate is these days, so you're probably well. This is a leading question, but you correct me. If I'm wrong, you might have been writing and performing differently than you are now. I'm wondering if process now is more like how do we maximize the connection? Whereas the beginning, it was like how do we make? There's all this noise. How do we stand out? We'll tell me tell me how you've changed the beginning Yeah, I would say. The beginning was just young. Idealism going without any frame and any referee on fire for the Lord you were. Yes. Hundred percent bridled. Yes, and it's also owner. I was like I'm a graduate college and maybe I'll be a lawyer, so I still have that in me like a thing that was grounded. You didn't tell me that what I was just like thought we were just like all in no matter what you wanted me to quit college. No well, we finished. That worked at. Years before you took. there. Have A kid. But it was like I think there was the sense of it's unrealistic, but that didn't matter all. It was like this is what we're GONNA do. This is the ultimate thing and you guys started the group. We did whether you're wikipedia. Page is not complete word wikipedia. Four. So there's another Ryan and I and Kelsey. WHO's not here are the three songwriters and singers of the band. The three of US bring song to the table super collaborative, but we're all singing role writing together, but usually each song is one of the three Avars pry sort of primarily in some primary, and that doesn't. Isn't unbearable. That's very some kind. Oh, yeah, it's insane, yeah! yeah, we're one of the only ones kind of left. Like in rural and they were all doing this. Yeah it's. Unbearable and beautiful. It's both I think we really have like we have a deep love and respect for each other you'd have which wins like our egos. Go crazy and fight in class, and then at the end of the day we have figured out that four us working together create something better than if we did it on our own. So that wins at the end of the game of thrones, politicking into heavens. That's sort of what I'm doing with the audience. Believe it or not. There's lines that you. You love and they keep telling you know, and that is also very painful. You like all right. We're making it together like me. And the audiences are writing the new our you know what I mean and you guys are doing it in a studio. You're trying to create that flow. That God thing we're talking about together, but can you give me an example when you had a lyric or something or a hook that you were like this? Is it and someone else was like it should be this? Boy I mean literally always. Ask? One ten thousand examples. God and Taylor you bring a song and Ryan Says I. Want to change the word love to darkness, so only change all of them. Yeah, so yes, like we got to rewrite the song yes. Music exists I or the lyrics with team also is the yeah, so when am I going to lose? You is a song on the new record, and it's about my relationship with my now wife but I. It was like we had gotten together, and then it wasn't going to work out, and then it did into Super Personal Song can't story this to Ryan and then Ryan. Physically I'm like you're like this is what is like dating my wife and he's like. Yeah. The second part's a little chunky. Yes. That's. My exactly, that's like. Little Chunk ever I love the, but you know what dude. I've seen a lot of bands where there's no Ryan. There's no Taylor to Ryan. There's no one going. I'm glad the you went spanking deepened ears conscious and brought back an entire dream, but this second verse needs stuff block in go, and I've seen a lot of bands that don't have that. You're like what's wrong and it's that there was no discernment right? There was no art is beautiful and. And magical in a theory and dreamy. At some point, the conscious mind how the brain the thinking brain you go at the end of the day. We do want people to listen to this. Totally and I think as a musician. especially if you're not. Like a lyric, I musician Bob Dylan or something there can be this desire to go deep within yourself and imagine that like you're looking for genius, and then genius has come out and constantly battling with that thing of like. It's not their credit. You I mean more than ever. I think. We're super open to changes lyrically on this one yeah. The movies right? Field say guys, right? Yet, but we've done it since we were like thirteen and Wong learning probably saying so there, there was the song you were mentioning. Yeah just. Ryan reworked like. All deer. With you in the room or is he taking a pass? So then we always hashing and bring it, and then we argue. Back and then I bring in, and then, and then now I'm passionate. Argue yes, and then. And then I'll be like. I've never had a guest pillow before the first I'd. PM Show. You were delighted. I'm so glad you were upset. Just so happy you guys like. Yes, this is art. It can socks on its rocky. No it it's. Like actually making the music is typically like ninety percents, super, joyful and easy, and then it'll be like this album was do three months ago and we're like, but we didn't finish the lyric, so we can't sing the last vocal. Yeah, and we'll be like stressing out like burning studio time and money like doing this thing, but then I'll be producing Ryan, so then ran will give me some options and I'll be like. Fuck. It's pretty good actually, but not good enough for me like okay Gimme this, and then like all be producing him rewriting the lyrics well, then he is. God He's. He doesn't know what he's writing scribbling. Send it back then you're like that's awesome like I love this guy. Fourth of like emotional so a mutual respect. Yeah, had that with jet a little bit. We never we never argued, but there would be like these conversations, but ultimately almost came down, almost always came down to me, being like. It's it's chat a Tau and that respect. Help me take notes you. Guys have that for one another, so you really you want the other to like what you're doing. Yes, and we sort of also have this implicit. We discuss it, but even though if it's a if it's a Taylor, Song. Taylor sort of has the rains I still don't have carte blanche with it. I have to get. Sign off every now and then I'll will break it and I'll be like I don't care what anybody thinks, but that's like one in ten thousand and I, and we all have to kind of get sign off through the filter of the band at least the other guys at the end of the day. Wow, and there's nothing like written down about that. You just free styling. We have no. Donald. Mission statement formalize. Wow, are you modeling it after Lennon, McCartney or Is. There's no no. That's that I. Like the way they did it. NOPE now go because those are actually. We're more democratic than they were. Yeah, definitely. Yeah. It's a crazy, oh yeah. You? Guys keep going. I'm tagging you go ahead. What are we going to say about Ryan? that he doesn't. Have you ever been doing alive and Joe and There's the lyric that Ryan rewrote and you just sing it the way you. Know because then this other weird thing happens, were then we like we're in this swirl for one year eight months making the record, and then it becomes the record congeals into so then like all you know, then like we all have ownership in it in a different way right late this conversation to go back and be like which one did Ryan Right? In which one did I write and I will remember? Yeah, but once I've Sung the song. A thousand, or whatever one hundred times then it takes on its own identity now now it's own thing anyways, and it starts to leave becomes like my own ego. Because now it's the ban and that's what's beautiful about band. Exactly especially this band I think people can feel when a band is just servicing front person. Yeah, and it doesn't feel as lovely. It can feel thrilling. I guess I'm thinking like maybe I. Don't know Elvis I. Don't know who. This! Relationship was just doing covers. Yeah, yeah, no, but also like. Elvis that's not a band. He's just that's his name. Like. The killers or like? A almost every band is servicing the front person. Yeah we have. Mostly interesting. Yeah, yeah, I guess we have a perspective I think like we are one of the most democratic bands kind of going like. It was really common in the sixties and those. When we were in high school, we all wanted to sing, and we all wanted to play. And then we discovered you know Zambia's and the Beatles and the beach boys and cosby cells national young right Oh that that's one way to kind of do it right, so we've always had that model instead of splitting way more work. It's so much more work right and most bands. We have seen on the road. You know. We met lots and lots of bands. Yeah don't really have. That dynamic. I wonder if it makes it more. Doable ultimately because you're doing something collective as opposed to going like if this song sex, it's just on me, you guys are you're sucking together and you're rocking together right like if it works each share that and if when it doesn't work, it's all of your problem. It's not. You know definitely one guy. I think having each other and the community and the community bond like we're so beyond. Know Work. On, the lawn yeah. Yeah. Wants to show my boss. Really and that was the real reason. Maybe he was watching. He knew what. He could smell it to. The loved. His favorite spot on the lawn. No! I've been trying to communicate with him a long time and it wasn't even an Alpha move. It was just kind of I was doing it because I wanted to be the universe peeing on my own lawn. Yeah the backyard. Yeah, everybody, be cool. Backyard all you had A. Nice because you don't want to go in and your. Fire! Pit Drinking I. I part not the second part so. It was just that you're at your house. That part was correct. A. I went on and on about my dumb religious beliefs, but what are years I, know you guys were raised in the Super Church with the purpose driven life, and all that and I know you have Christ you. Miss Jesus so bad and you're going to get. That keeps giving on I. DIDN'T WANNA. Give you that. Impression. I'm doing really great especially with with baby. Per is I did. Would you think I saw live? I haven't watched on. netflix's yet. What did you think of it? Live? Edit that how? Well you saw it live you do i. Love it. I love it. I thought it was wonderful. You know Mikey had a different experience than me and he knows we're very very close, and and he had like he didn't WanNa have kids. He didn't want to get married. And that's real I was wondering how much he was playing into that a little bit archive of it was really fantastic. Yeah, it's all about was creating some of that. ARGH, no, it's all. It's all very real and. I can't remember the specifics, but val and I had more of A. There was more ease with it. I didn't have the like what am I doing? We wanted to do it even when I was a kid I knew I wanted to have kids. Even when I was a kid I believed in God were just like this disposition to be like it make you. What about the the thing where there's this relationship between the baby and the mother versus the Father Yeah. What did you? What did you think of that? My new, our is sort of a response to that, not specifically to bigly to the role of the Dad DADS are kind of. Often, this thing dragging along yeah and told that they're left out well that that's a big thing is when when I was looking up youtube like whatever question I had. It was always a woman going like what's up MOMS, and then explaining this sort of fucked up. It sounds like I'm going to start a youtube I have no interest in that, but like for Dad, but like and if I did find a dad when it was always from the very agro, like okay, you're GonNa have yourself a beer to grab. Media Swimsuit Edition Bro Bro Dad's yeah. There was no lake. Get in touch with your famine sides searching something. Yes, so fucking beautiful! There's no changing tables in any may is restroom now. I know I was just set. The my wife was working in a hotel. Yeah, and I was watching the baby. Yeah and. I went to go change in there and my sister with me, and she had a change in her restaurant, which like probably just obvious and makes sense was was like what's with that man I know come on. That's a lot of two thousand twenty. It's not so much an answer to Burghley as it's an answer to my own dad and my dad did a great job, but he was definitely living out a cultural narrative that was not of his design he he was doing it. The woman does these things than I I'll work and provide, and I'm trying with my comedy and with this podcast and I. That's why I love. This conversation is to be like it is a beautiful thing to be like a capital F. Father, and be involved and I straight up say in my act I change diapers I make fun of Mike for. He told me that he doesn't change a lot of diapers because his wife is. Is Better at it. That's part of my act. Wow, and I make fun of him for that. He knows this by the way. Yeah and I'm trying not to Brag I'm trying to be trying to set an example to be like I put my time in on the map because it means so much. Yeah, if I, sit down cross-legged and I. Do the Sign Language for book. My daughter comes over and sits on my lap. Matters and so many men go like are told. They can't let me know when they're three. Yeah, let me know when I can tell them jokes or do a magic trick. It's like how much is hold it. Shut the fuck up or how about you learn how to mirror? Women are so good at mirror like even grown women like if a woman is. Is Upset. They just go like Oh baby I know they do that and that is a very maternal thing. Men should be doing that with their relationships and their friendships, and that you can also learn do that with your baby and I'm better at doing it because my baby someone wherever he's crying. You don't go, it's okay. Let's look out the window you. Know One of the things you can have this you want. We just go big feelings big. Now made the point that if I started weeping. No one would scoop me up. That's violating and just like turn on the TV or singing a song. You would rub my back. And let me feel it. Yeah, and that's and that's what we do with the baby, and you also notice that this is one hundred percent val, so Lee will be. You'll see that she wants to cry. She needs to cry. There's something there's so much ambiguity in emotion, swirling and all of us. We've learned how to mask and Yeah I've been needing to cry a little bit not a lot a little bit. Yeah, you learn that from your baby, so I'll see her lease walking now, and she'll fall on her bottom a thousand times a day, but every once in a while she falls into makes her cry. Why did that one hurt more knows because she needed to cry. Cry So? Let her cry. It's okay like let it happen and when you don't resist it, it's another beautiful teaching like okay now we're being sad valid, and that's okay. Right and you know coincidentally that helps it pass faster. Yeah than just you know. Spring Breeze on the pilot shit in the room. Yeah, right? Let's just being aware of it and like acknowledging it instead of being like no, no, no, no, no, you're not. You're not feeling that it's part of a we I'm really hoping we can maintain that. I'm confident that we can into her later years to be like now we're angry. Instead of being like well, I'll be angry or you know what I mean like yeah! Let's be angry. Be Sad! Let's be depressed me whatever it's okay, it's okay it's part of the curriculum. It's what we're doing any badge anything better than your dad being like you're sad. Let's fucking be sad and the I. These fantasies me and leered is being depressed The blinds and reading pizza and we're watching Magnolia and Lee and Val comes home and we're just like Mama. We're sad today. Yeah, fuck the world today. Yeah. Yeah, that'd be that's it yeah. That's a mind blower. It's ballgame. I'm not saying there's not time to cheer people up, but there's also time to just go like we're anxious. Anxious let's be anxious. We're missed vapor being anxious. Let's do it. like you wanting to upload your consciousness. Let's be vapor being anxious. Yeah, it's a beautiful thing. Minds me of Christianity trying to cheer you up about death right away. Yeah and my. Are Some was born, and then my wife had had this dog. Does this ad sorry for tenure? A fourteen years old dog and he was holding on and then like two weeks. Or a week after his birth, the dog died. and we had a I had to go. Put him down nose in the room with him, putting him down and it was. So I was in a raw state from the baby from baby, and you had someone come in the indoor. Now you're sending someone yes, and same door this. Same, and what the doggy door. Lightning crash, love it. For lightning graduate. If I start telling you what to do, he's actually a cover. Lightning graduates. You should be our manager. Marty Chaplain. What if I do? And I'm Mike and I'm so excited. They're opening with lightning crashes. I. Don't know how to play it. You can figure out. I'm trying to think of the other worship songs used to use to rock. God is an awesome God. Oh, yeah, there, you get our ballot. It's great now. That song is one. Ten most influential. How about. Jesus Freak. A, little! I remember moshing to that church, camp, I. Pol Rap of Team Spirit Yeah. I didn't want to compare. How Wow, yeah isn't that weird? So you were saying God? We go hi. Jelly Because, he couldn't catch up of his belly with his head. Because I couldn't read them on his head. Saves is what? In a typical to green. Box in the middle of the city and his. Smells like Teen Spirit. Looks. Yeah it'll man down, but I am. A banger. Wanting to. The way that I don't WanNa Watch music Docs I. Don't want to hear that when you figure out that any way you want. It is standing at the edge of tomorrow. The saved by the Bell College Years I'm standing at the tomorrow and it's all up to me half hour ago. Anyway you want it. That's the way it's amazing. People are going like we want something that sounds like this and they go mix it a little bit different. Yeah, okay, so your dogs dead. Right back to that dog said, and it hit me so hard being in the room as as a life pass through, and it was just so intense and I haven't been. Like around death that intimately I think since I was lots of Christian and since it was like you know. Yeah! It's sad, but it's actually better right, so it's not bad at all. It's great. Let's have a party and that's kind of like the Christian story. At least as it was, maybe it's not always, but he was told to us when we were kids. And I just like sat in how sad it was, and and we just cried for days. That's right now morning and let it let it go through our bodies, and it was so. Like. Satisfying in deeper right way. Saying no to that is unholy. I think and holy being hold the whole thing, yeah, the grief and the sadness, and the doubt and the pain and the fear. It's not a flaw in the system. Thomas Merton says faith without doubt completely meaningless. It has to be the up in the down. In fact every day you're trying to remember. It's not like you just wake up and your cold and like you're trying to remember. That's like I feel like now that. Both have no-worries-mate young kids like how how you GonNa like raise them. You know like we raised in Christianity or whatever? How do you? How do you instill in them? A sense of like Veggietales to live. A. Legend. Rebel against you know you pushing like a Ramdas book in front of them, or you know what I mean. Is it or do you just let them discover on their? opposite. Yeah, unless you really. I, think the name and the is trying to look like you're doing nothing. Yeah, because there's there's nothing rebel against valid. I take comfort in the idea that no one is turned off by. President loving people. That is what would like to teach her. How to be present to loving, and how to be non resistant and flowing, and that is always appealing to everybody and regardless but I am curious I was just today I was watching Ritchie this morning I was like. Should we Francis Skin like I? Just don't know. But I if you like rob with his kids now like icy them finding, they could go to a local native show, and that would be their church, or they go to the ocean. If you learn how to see, it doesn't matter what you're seeing, right? You know what I'm saying like you have this. There's something inside you that wants to teeter this way, so it almost doesn't matter what it is again Richie, says the thing is like it's not too hot air balloon. That made you happy. There was something in you. That was leaning towards happiness, and I chose the hot air balloon to unlock. It wasn't a hot air balloon itself. Because it's sad, person went to the hot, air. Balloon, It doesn't trigger that it could have been A. Particle of dust in a in a Sunbeam, just like wow. Happy. It's not the thing. It's how you're looking at but so dog. Baby coming in. What is what is? Do you believe what you believe about? God I? Guess is my question, I think. That anybody. Who thinks that they know what's happening is they? Don't know what's happening. Yeah, so that's kind of, but then also the flip side of it is I feel like full of kind of on wonder, and that anything is possible, so I feel super open to like we, you know we've discovered a meditation practice and. found kind of spiritual connectivity, and you know these other kind of guides, teachers afloat flotation deprivation, tango, totally church. There's church. Yeah, well. That's Dow and there's this line in in The doubt teaching, which is like He who speaks doesn't know and he he who knows has no need to speak with here. We are talking. Anger. That's around outside and it was like, but here we are talking. It's okay like we can't put it into language. It's like your trip. Ryan like you can't bring it back. You can't bring back the feeling. No matter how I'm like. What's it like to play the Greek and you're really in the pocket. You can't really describe it. It's OK though it's a whole. Okay like that was a feeling I would get from when I was on psychedelics or something I'd be like. Wow, we're so off. NONOC bad way in a good way. I was like wow, we are dogs trying to understand the Internet, but then there would be this concurrent feeling of like. Beautiful Dogs Beautiful Dogs Yeah. Richie ads this beautiful thing he says about. Our perfection that pleases God. It's that we're like everything we do. Sort of is appreciated and loved any likens it. You're GONNA like this. I think to a child you'll both like I, don't mean to be complete. I'm just saying it meant more to me because we have Leela when a child makes drying, and you put it on the fridge, and it means so much to you. You it's not that it's Picasso. It's that your kid did it for you so your efforts, even if they're not complete if they're not perfect if they're not right, it's that you you had this ernest drive so young Taylor who was on fire for the Lord. fucking gorgeous nothing wrong with it I don't I don't have fantasies about going back and being Snell and what Smith. Wasn't time and people listening. Maybe it's not time for that yet. It's OK wherever you are. This is your drawing for the universe, and the universe puts it on the mother fucking fridge dude. It's okay. That's that overwhelming sense of vote, but as long as young. Taylor wasn't like kind of harming anyone else with his rag fire like I. Don't know I sometimes wonder if it's like you turn somebody off. I think that class you know it's Ok back that English class that we. proselytize, but the anger that you might have. You might have hardened somebody that was also their story to be hardened, right, okay and Youtube Weirdos. That's that sort of all in the game. Yeah, the rain, watering the flowers and the orange. It's like even the nasty bits. Yeah, it's really pretty far out so late so then. Is there nothing nothing that could be? Wrong or or bad, I guess. I guess I'm trying to like no. I know it all the way out I'm like. Extremes of it I guess that is where I get caught up with it for sure I totally with you and I. Don't have that figured out either. People say somebody said about the Michael Gungor and Valerie and I did an episode, and we were talking about non resistance, and the perfection of all things and I thought we did a good job. Saying that doesn't mean you don't work to change things. Obviously, harmony and love and beauty are valuable things. you have to work towards those things. There's just going to be a quiet part of you that goes like it's what Jesus said. Jesus said the poor will always be here. The the pain will always be here. You know like it's. It's just how it is i. used to grow up thinking that we could have like a utopia, but we're talking about that, so you're Adele, but you're depressed like what we're talking about. It's always happening because that's what we're doing. Did you see ricky surveys opening monologue I. didn't did you hear about it? I heard a little bit about it. It was incredible, was that he did you see it really? Did you see it? He brutalized the audience so insanely. The Best Line I think was you know. You guys kind talk about like carrying for the world and having the causes and these ideas, but what about the companies that you're making? These forts Apple Amazon and Disney and you know if Isis open a streaming service tomorrow you call your agent. been everyone just cringed they laugh or bow. They were grown in cringing groaning, but he was just like. He. I just thought it was kind of amazing. Yeah, well, I feel like you and I talked about this a lot like. Is there a way to have a? Like ethics morality without religion religion. was cast aside like. Is there like a universal any universal truths that you can kind of? Form into a I think that's where you get the Golden. Rule your neighbors. Wanted to do about how like for example on Shark Tank? It's fucked up that I just talk so frankly, it's like I made this pen and it costs five cents to me. Yeah, they're all like. Did that in China? would be two cents. They're saying this in front of yeah. Yeah and then they're like, and we charge nineteen ninety-five yeah, and instead of having an issue with that we just order. Like a great pet, even though we know, it costs experts, I can't even do the math of how many times over the cost and we're just like I'm like that's fucked up. I could do that. It's weird that we're just getting these people rich and I'm like. You're talking to people and you charge them to come in like I'm also complicit in that markup rate well, the. Our world phenomenon I'm like it's it's. It's difficult for me to talk about. We're all doing it. Yeah, it's like I'm chart. You guys are paying I'm making a profit from this. It's a tricky thing to talk about so yeah, if you WANNA go like. We're all serving money. We're all serving. The Isis streaming service, or whatever it is tricky, tricky thing and I mean I. Know I'm sure Ricky is smart enough to know that he's the beneficiary of that as well so I think that is part of what makes it bold and maybe even courageous to talk that way. But I do think right now. We're in this like this nice. I duNno pocket of being so open to to seeing what goes on. It's like maybe after you die. It's like lights out. That's it maybe after you die. You realize it's all a video game from some kid in the future playing our reality, you know. Maybe it's a reincarnation like I i. just I think like investigating right now feels like at least where both of us have been at a lot lately. Yeah, I think the focus. Which instead of the focus being about it, but I to another way to say God is the focus is on being present connection inexperience in this. which is another way we can you? Can you do that thing? From your, stand up about the orange a for Taylor because. I tried to do it for him, and he not impressed like he was like I. Think I totally botched it? I! Don't see anything like no. No, no like see it in front of you like I. Just fell. It's funny. We were just doing it when you said. Did you watch ricky debates? Golden Golden saw a translucent image of Richardson. So. You I mean you're doing it right now. That's the hour of language. Yeah, but it's like what like when we say God is something in my imagination. It's like well. Who is imagining like what is imagine, so the bid is I. CAN'T I don't even know. Bringing together, but yeah picture and orange. What the how're you doing that like? Remember? When Ryan went to the bathroom like I do I remember? I was sitting on the edge. Like but how am I doing? Basic things to being alive. That just aren't remarkable until you stop. The first time I did that I was stoned, I was sitting in my front yard was a beautiful sunny day, and I had one of those `goodstone sometimes stone just means you watch Alphand, it's can bullshit, and sometimes you sit in your front yard and you're just like. How am I hearing the voice in my head like there's ears in my brain. Consciousness itself that's that's a very profound awakening to realize that there's something inside of you listening to your thoughts, which means you aren't your thoughts, which means you're the thing listening to your brain? Your brain is a servant to the awareness. You could say the awareness is a product of of your brain. I suppose, but that doesn't really satisfy. Yeah, yeah, I don't know why. Just intuitively, but that's what I'm trying to get the audience to do. How are you picturing? How are you seeing something that only you can see and I say sing happy birthday your head, and they do it and I'm like. How Are you hearing map like? How Are you hearing today and make it loud or make it quiet or like? These are the Games I? Think he should play if you can't sleep at night to sing a song in your head and try to make it louder. For me I can't do it. It's just the voice sounds like it's louder, but it's always the same level and I say. How do you know your level is the same as my level, and that's maybe what crazy people are. Maybe their level is really high. Right a hammer and kill damn. All right if that's. That's a that's a big thing. People like I heard voices. It's like we're all fucking hearing voices. We confuse and thought it was us, and that is one of the first steps to liberation is thoughts aren't facts? Feelings aren't facts. It's just something that you're watching. Go by right. That's been really fascinating thing to explore the lease like mindfulness meditation like viewing things as objects in consciousness. Like what is this like prior state? Yeah, and then back to the baby. Is Unbelievable to watch a being. Start from Ground Zero. Ended also, but you realize that everybody did yeah. Everybody was born, which just completely blew my mind? Yeah, I can't believe we don't remember. Yeah, we never think about the fact that we were babies right? Even when you're like all your baby photo, you don't think about being a baby and like that consciousness was coming right together. I thought about that when I was rocking Li. I was like we. This can be smaller. This is not necessary for me to be right. It could be smaller in yeah, in fact, you could expand. An Ajar exactly and and it's still that well. How small can we go? Yeah, and then you're looking for the soul. Yeah, that's basically what you're playing. Yeah, it's really fucking trip then we need Mary. Oliver, to help us understand like I can't like. We need a poet. Or the local natives Ni- swap it. dropped. I know your big hit raw. Dorgan. Listen. I love your head to Oregon. Thanks argued about that lyric did I WANNA Jorgen Sh- mortgage. We always had because we've. We've gotten pretty trippy meal and it's been like a realization man fucking. This vapor has been pretty interesting. What is the hardest time you've laughed collectively? Are Each of you on your own, and it doesn't have to be like the hardest time, but if you're laughing, so. Recently it doesn't matter Oh. Tell me about a time. You Laugh so hard, you cried. Reese. Oh go ahead I. mean this is the first Republican I mind. Do you remember we used to had like a mini ping pong table at my house in high school play. Exactly what you're going to send me? Always? Me Me like not getting her I. Don't know what's wrong with me, but when? Always someone getting. It for some reason he likes swung nyet WANNA universe with no suffering and every time I asked this question. Why can't we just be it? Then I saw my grandmother slip on talking. Shit! Shoot vote or tooth came out. We wept. I'm like which is it? You want to sit around and sing coon by. Are you want Randy falling on? The funniest sets kind of like a play. What happened you I played into it? I'm doing like I'm kind of acting. He like swung and missed in the wall is super close and it's a glass door smashed into it really hard and you just like. Damn it like. What I did! I remember when you started speaking. I remembered it exactly fifteen years ago. Yeah! Like smashing a glass. Going Penny. pinching. Penny. Many, Ping Pong Yeah. You, miss? You Miss the mini penny and you fell into a glass door. Yeah! And? The. Greatest sound as you did it tear. Dammit Oh my God. It's hard to believe. Cry Gene Into My. Me and my friend earn shadowed. Earn again. We were leaving the Taco Bell in Burlington because that's where we hang or as we call it the Mexican restaurant. Just getting, we were walking out and there's big biker dude. is so big I was such an idiot because I was like fifteen, probably fixing because we drove there and I was walking out, and he walked into the glass door. Slammed into. The whole. Get up and everything in my memory here. Okay? I think he was just wearing a like a undershirt, a dangerous guy going to Taco Bell in his fifties and a sixteen year old kid. I just died laughs, and he gets it, and even earned was like. I think you could have just die. I think that guy might have killed you. Know on fire for life. He walked into a door. We laugh. It's lovely way. How about this other one? We had we. We had a basis fill in for us for second. This guy She now plays in a band fiddler and remember yes. Yes, me Lord. That was pretty good. You WanNa do it from. How could you recreate the character? It's so hard and basically this servant character Lord I miss him. We teaching him local native songs. And then he'd be like Lord. I Miss You Lord. Why don't you speak to me anymore? Florida got your favorite bits from the fields. The Bass player. He wasn't doing. We're like this song. It's this riff next and he'd be like. No reason yeah. It was great ads confusing as it is for me for you? Like, why we how we'd have to like it just went on for ever I. Know you didn't watch it. You have another one. Mine Is Different From Yours. Mine is like my baby has been asleep mostly. But starting to smile a little bit, and then in his sleep, after being milked drunk, he just started laughing in his sleep, and my wife and I were watching this, and we just started crying and laughing. It was the most. Yemen's different than your. Sweet just had a baby. Impressive. I haven't been speaking about I. Love the you are now. Trying, not only leaping babies just starts laughing in its dream. About you know what what could it be? Could it be probably you? It was probably only knows to people, yeah and Tabu. Probably boobs Yeah Oh my God a May, but we were. It was just amazing. Yes, I feel that so hard. Yeah, do you remember the first time you saw her laugh? Yeah, it was bad. It was my sister-in-law major laugh. She was doing like we have a video of it really laughed like a conscious like God. Wow, an unbelievable amazing, but a baby laughing in. It's sleep. I think is deeply profound that and this is very early on before you know babies. Like Elliott is Ellie I was like just conscious just wing and it's laughing. Laughing like that's like a clue. Joke totally yeah. This is hilarious. It's vapor, you guys. Do. You have the the thing where your babies are enlightened. They now, of course. We've forgotten ABC Yeah Yeah? Every time I see. What are you know? Yeah, that's right. That's that Ritchie Rural. You cute it up perfectly. He tells the story all the time and people on this hurt again, but I've heard it think of how many times I've heard. You've told. Time Reggie Story. There's like a three year old boy I had him. Tell it on the gas, and they had a baby, and the three year old was like I wanna be alone with the baby, and the parents put the ear up to the door. The three-year-old want to talk to the baby, and he said Where where are you? Tell me I'm starting to forget. What is this? The baby is just. Starting to forget, that's insane. That's so not tell that story he goes. Why do people love that story? But I mean he just met? People love stories about like that's the greatest thing. That's amazing. Yeah. Where were you? Where were? You. To Forget. The. Puerto I pulled him out really yeah. I caught him. Wow, which I don't know why. They call it that because it's not being thrown. No, it's more of a PRI-. Yeah I didn't pry. Of Life at yeah, no I. Let the doctor do that. 'cause I I wanted to experience that getting did touch Leila's head as she was crowning so while she was still one with, wasn't that. was like this is and sometimes I touch his head now and I'm like I say a lot of things to Lille all the time but I like I touched this like I. I met you this. He told her born. One thing that I've known you the whole the whole time, one thing that blew my mind about that moment was the inbetween when their in Utero, and then coming out, and then there's this time before they take the first breath. They're still remember that. Yeah, they're still basically the MOM, but they're in the. They're outside. But Having breathed yet. That's kind of gray so for a minute like your wife's lungs or something. Yeah, that's what I mean. It's like a body part comes out, and it's like you cut off your foot, and then your foot just starts running around. Like, that was my foot, but now it's damn yet. Fellow. I hope it's a crazy. Hammer. do you guys feel good? I feel wonderful. Everything. You wanted it to be. It's bizarre being here after fans for so I WANNA talk about was super stoked God Christianity, and he did it and babies and the Sauna. There catava around Chavis in the house, but new nutro Goop intra-group was. There's Alphabrain on the deaths you. That's Alphabrain right. That's on the Charlotte's Web I can give you guys. Some Charlotte's web. That'd be amazing CD of love to love the try. It CW HEMP DOT com slash, we'd. I have not saying for you. I'm saying if other people want to try, but oh, yeah, yeah, yeah! Have you ever tried honored? No first time I had I had pot. What am I? I. Was like I wish there was something like this that would like feel good in my body, but not make me want to just like eat cheetos and watch star. Wars, I wish there was something that would just kind of like help, but not get you intoxicated so hemp. So, it's not cannabis right, but it's CD and it and it's just like a wonderful mood elevating edge softening plant ally that I love I think you guys are. Great how wonderful! Yeah! Yeah! It's almost that perceptual ill enjoy it wonderful. That's what I've been looking work so anyway, local natives. What's the new record because I? I actually like your new staff. I hope this is cool. I like it more than your I love to hear that. Down we're talking about the old suffers of the new like that's so funny. I remember listening to the Monkey record liked it a lot, but then I listen to your new stuff in prep for this episode and I was. Just. Man Figuring it the fuck out, and it's getting better. That about a lot of bands, a lot of bands even that I like putting out. Records that were informed by their last records and they're like okay. How do we do that again? But then there are bands like the national, which has always been my favorite band their their most recent record. You're just like. You guys are radio heading it meaning like every records new every records like something so like if there is a criticism I have about star wars, which I would say to anybody would agree is that it's not necessarily necessary meaning. There's something that people like let's make more of and sometimes that can be a flaw in every type of art, and then there's records that you're like Oh. Something woke these guys up yet. They had to get out of bed and right this one, and that's what's happening every record so weldon. Thing each. Edit that out. You guys he was lying. Hundred percent. I'm not that I was like. We. We have the guests they keep where you can say it together. It's how we end, or you can say it separately. It's really up to. You will obviously say together three wait. I'll do a rock and roll a one. You One, two, three, four, keeping crispy. That's not how rock and roll does telling. I. Know How to do it. Out. That's bad. We did yeah, I get it. I'm cool guy. That's a cool guy, so. Quiz Spin. CRISPY!
"You made it weird with the homes. Look what's happening Weirdos. This is Robin Henderson. Espinosa Robin is a theologian and ethicist based in Nashville Tennessee. This is one of my favorite conversations of all time. This is absolutely one of my favorite episodes of all time. I can't wait for you to hear it. I WANNA say up top that There's some chap up top. I know you know that I love the any Graham. The ANAGRAM is Is Basically very very old personality analysis if you get to that part and we start talking about who's a five and who's a three in who seven And you're bored or don't know what we're talking about please know that it only lasts Maybe thirty seconds to a minute please. Don't turn it off. We get so good so deep and so beautiful and I would really hate for you to jump ship. I just remember making a mental note to mention that so here I am mentioning it A couple of things to mention up top first and foremost. I hope everybody is healthy and safe. I know this is a stressful time. I hope This episode and the show in general gives you a little bit of relief From that I know it is for me I do. You WanNa give a shout out to the Pete's picks as you guys know. I don't do traditional and the way we support. The show is by my promoting things that I actually use an actually love. The first piece pick is Kochava. You guys know this if you listened before. Catava is a plant based superfood drink mix. It's basically just a bag of chocolate. Good powder that you throw in with some water you throw in with some almond milk. Whatever you want get crazy and it overloads your system with unbelievable superfood nutrition and keeps you full for hours at which is completely true by the way you can have one in the morning and you'll find yourself not hungry for four or five hours. It's unbelievable I didn't even know that's what people were using it for. I am just into the way it makes me feel it gives me a nutrition overload. I talked with Zach. Braff a little bit about this an episode. I find that giving my sells the nutrients they need helps me in just virtually every way physical energy emotional energy and Catava is a hundred percent plant based for people that are curious about getting more plants in their diet. It's got Omega threes which we all know important but from Chia seeds and flax seeds not as I always say an anonymous barrel of miscellaneous fish that they press from the top and get some go out. It's from plants. Eight super fruits are in the bag. Seventeen Greens and veggies In Quarantine. I'm having a really hard time getting Greens and veggies. Or I would be if I wasn't taking my catava every day. Wonderful Way to get it in there. It's like a life hack seventeen. Greens and veggies in the bag. Gluten Free Soy free. There's no artificial sweeteners or preservatives. But it's delicious because they use coconut nectar which is a low glycemic sweetener so it has some sweetness very very delicious very very tasty mixes with the Rock Cowan there which is wonderful superfood to give it a Chocolate the sweet or vanilla. Sweet if you nasty They I swear you'll enjoy. I always joke. That val doesn't like a lot of the weird superfoods that I have. But she does enjoy could travel when I make it for her. There's a thousand milligrams of adapt degen's in twenty four grams of plant based protein. There's your answer for where. Vegans get their protein or people that just like getting plants in their body. Twenty four grams of protein in a liquid forum getting into yourselves quickly and easily nine grams of fiber. Actually delicious. Can't stress this enough. The Rock Akao the maca root which is wonderful for energy and vitality obviously cacao as a wonderful mood elevator. This isn't like over the counter. You know Hershey Bar junk chocolate. This is real as a NUTCA- cows a nut we are getting a cow nut. I seriously could not It's a wonderful mood elevator. It's wonderful source of magnesium and hard to find nutrients. The whole bag is a source of hard to find nutrients that are gonNA make you feel incredible meal and a pill meal replacement smoothie and three seconds just put in water. Shake it up and you're good to go. I swear by it. I'm always turning friends onto it and if you want to support this show and do your body a favor. Go to Catava Cadavre K. A. C. H. A. V. A. dot com slash weird. And if you go to that landing page you'll get twenty percent off and show your support of this podcast. Thank you to our friends at Catava. Speaking of superfoods we have a new. Or It's been a couple of weeks now but a new Pete's pick here my friend. David just turned me onto the health benefits of a superfood known as Nonni and I have been drinking and enjoying to Heeschen nonni juice to heat. Noungu as I like to call it. Nonni is a tation super fruit known for its medicinal properties. It's been used for thousands of years as an ancient health remedy and it turns out that. Ancient Wisdom is scientifically proven. It's been shown to boost immune activity and naturally enhanced enhanced energy and support overall wellness. I I was a little bit skeptical I looked into it Four ounces twice a day. They have peer reviewed. Clinical Double Blind Studies That they did with a placebo and it showed that four ounces. Twice a day increases your N. K. Your natural killer cells which are the cells that help your immune system stay powerful increases your account of n que cells. There's brody by thirty. Thank you brody by. He's a big Fan. I don't know if you can even hear that. I'm stopping because the dog is barking. Increases N que cells by thirty percent. So I've been I just had the bottle in my Refrigerator door take it out. Jagged FOUR OUNCES. Twice a day thirty percent more ammunition to fight off infection disease. Whatever it may be keep your immune system healthy and powerful It's basically tastes like pomegranate juice is what I think it tastes like. It's a mix of Nonni and blueberry both super fruits two hundred and seventy-five nutrients and fighter nutrients key vitamins minerals and antioxidants It's Vegan obviously. It's gluten free it's non. Gmo naturally enhances energy overall wellness. And as I mentioned increases your n que cells by thirty percent. Which is incredible. I've been taking it now for three weeks. I will say that I look forward to it. I find it to be energy boosting and I can't speak to. I can't feel my an K. cells but I trust the science. So if you WANNA TRY IT. They are offering a special deal to the listeners of this podcast. A one liter bottle of to heat no Jew. He should nonni Jews and they're Correlating supplement called cell defense. Which is clinically shown to help your body fight inflammation inflammation of course being the correspondent trouble with so many things. That's how I explain it. I'm no scientist inflammation bad. It's usually a one hundred dollars. But if you use this landing page and this code not only show your support for this always podcast. But you'll be doing something healthy for your body and it's only forty bucks. Nonni Ano- Anti New Age NONNI NEW AGE DOT com slash. Weird forty. Give it a try. I think you'll like it and you'll show your support of this show. That's a lot of superfoods. But what can I say super? It's right there in the name. Get loaded on nutrition. That's what I'm about. Keep your mood up. Keep your health up feel good. I'm happy that Catava and heat known Jew are supporting this episode. I'm so excited I have nothing else to plug. Isn't that funny? Needs to be tour dates and stuff and we used to get in a tube filled with strangers. No one was wearing a mask and fly to a place to a room with no windows and just entertain people all breathing the same air then afterwards hug people man. I can't wait to get back to that. I miss you guys I hope you're doing okay. Enjoy the wonderful frequency and love that I That Robin and I created and that I enjoyed. I'm so excited for you guys to hear this one Do Check out activists theology. That's Robbins Book. And in the meantime enjoy one of my favorite conversations on my life. Thank you science Mike for for hooking up get into it air. You're yeah hey look at you you got a real rig. Thank you so much. Yeah 'cause I run a podcast so so I gotTa have a thing. Y- but I don't have a thing you're killing it. What do you use the Snowball Geiger? Oh so I. We were using a One of those blue microphones and art audio was trash. Yeah no I don't even know if ours is good Tony. What's up Tony Johnny? How's IT sounded sound okay? It's it's you know all things considered with the zoom set up. It's not so bad. Robbins is better. They're pretty equal. Yeah right now I mean in this scenario. Yeah maybe because you're you're we're going through a zoom channel every theat everything changes the voice over Ip. I think it diminishes the sound a little bit. Yeah well from where I'm sitting. You sound great and thanks very much for doing this. Yeah well thanks for the immigration. Where am I talking to you? Where are you Nashville Tennessee? That's great I love your yeah. In fact my said that He had passed along my name to you several months ago and I saw that you were coming in Nashville and I was. GonNa try to link up with you but that would have been fun. Yeah but it just didn't didn't work out. I was there. Yeah that's right I was at Zanies. Yep that's one of the last man. I sorta wish I could go back because doing five shows. I know you're a public speaker as well and doing a lot of shows can get tiring and I if somebody had come back and been like this is going to be a last weekend right right. I mean I gave it my all but I would have tapped danced out onto the city so happy to see everybody. Yeah I mean I have to imagine. You're like me in that the next time you're speaking in front of a group. I whether you're in the audience or on stage will never take it for granted again. I'll never just be like okay. Yeah `nother audience. Yeah totally it's going to be so special. Are you from there? I I'm realizing I did some research. Okay Science Mike. Our friend a little bit. But this is sort of an exciting episode for me. I know very little And I'd love to just start with where you're from and growing up and all that because I know we have a lot of interesting theology and yeah some theory to get into. Yep Love to start with you as as a person and a little bit of your story great I love it when people humanized me instead of fetish is and you know. I watched them interviews. And they're like so what is Cui ear and I'm yeah I don't know I would so much rather have your parents your siblings where yeah great was like all that you can take that question however you like. Great Okay I love talking about roots me too. I love it too. I wonder are you do you know the Graham? Oh Yeah I'm a big AD. I'm a big any Graham. Hor Number you said what is your number. I'm five. You're five. Oh Do you know Michael Gungor? Yeah use my dear friend. And he's a five so whenever I meet a five. I go like I like five. I think I'm using the any aground I use it. What's your number pattern? I'm a three year three. Okay Yeah I. I don't know if I'm supposed to apologize. I'm doing all this reading reading Richard Ward's book about the program right now and boy. We're we're a slippery bunch. Yeah it's like the Bill Clinton's and the and the like the people that lied to themselves. Oh my God had a really interesting conversation in my brain this morning where I was like. Where are we lying to ourselves and brain was like we'll now okay? Listen we have things that are true? And you're saying we won't know they're not true because we're us but we're saying they they work and we're like and I'm like wow this is gonna be on. It was dramatized in my head tolling. I don't have a shot. I think I need somebody from the outside. Yeah which luckily I have thou and friends to help out my bullshit but I am full of it somewhere. Yeah I'm partnered with a two uh-huh and hey my handed to Until five thousand TEUs make a very good match. The thing is is fives. Have a hard time recognizing their feelings which is like super true for me. And I'm also an academic so I just live in my head all the fucking time but being with the two who is an impasse. She can feel my feelings before I can even feel though often at dinner. So what's going on and it will take a long time and then finally it will come out in tears and everything that's great. What if yes? That's a great pairing. Yeah I'm happy to val is nine and she By the way it doesn't even really matter if people don't understand exactly what we're talking about we're just talking about personality type. F Nine is I don't even know the one word for it. But she she mirrors people she did. Well our nine's a peacemaker peacemaker they sit under like even Keel. Like you can all. They're solid all the time. That's what that's certainly true vow. The danger of a nine especially when you're with three. So three's an achiever and the five is the challenger now the observer aid is challenger. Yeah I didn't think you were a five. I just thought it was. The academic was the one that likes to question. Things you brought. I go to a I go to aid an integration so I can be challenging. Yes you know but yeah. I'm an observer. Saw Him always taking in information? I'm an information. Horror is what I'd like to say you've been at your double horse so far. You're more information that's wonderful. I go to nine so when I'm stressed. Is that what you mean you go to eight? When you're stressed now I go to. I go to seven when I'm stressed. Whoa I that's a good thing. Seven is the enthusiasts right. Rob Bell is always consummate seven. It's just the guys that like. Of Course They WanNa go surfing right or right and they're so happy and excited for you. seven is my second numbers tied for second But I feel like a seven being enthusiastic. Be Wonderful if you got stressed about your school or your project or whatever it is you're working on you become a seven except except this there. Was this one time when I dated a seven and it was a disaster. So I'm like I want to always integrate to eight. I never want to be stressed and go to seven. Well I'm glad you have some aid qualities because we talked a lot about the Graham on this and I and this is what's great about AIDS I'll see tweets. People are like back off the eights man. 'cause y'all just paint with very broad brush right. It'd be like trump. We think trump might be an aid eighths or the guys that fight but like I know you're theologian saw speak freely. I believe Saint Paul was in eight eight or are people that love to say what they're thinking and yeah wonder what they're about and the right either of them. Yeah what can you speak well of of your eight side? I mean there's a real I mean I mean. I think that I go to I tell people extra. I get paid to extrovert but I'm intense introvert. And so I think you know when I travel and speak. That's when I go to eight and I'm able to say things maybe that other people wouldn't be able to say also a light skinned Latina some white passing and so I can say things that darker skinned people. Can I in crowds of white folks? So I think that's when I go to aid and when I'm able to challenge the status quo in challenge the norm. That's a really great thing to identify and to use some people could be like a the term white passing makes me uncomfortable because it makes it sound like I dunno. It feels weird when a white person says passing but to use the term. They use white passing. Some people would be like. Hey I'm white passing. I'm going to have a FRESCA right right. I'M GONNA I'M GONNA blend in and get into that potato salad and you're like oh I'm white passing. I can get away with more. Yeah yeah I I think that I think that White folks shouldn't say white passing but people of color who are like skin. It's a it's a way to differentiate Like I moved the world with power privilege access because I am white pass eight and so it's a statement of my privilege So I use that I used to. I used to say it's my burden but but now I've reframed it as it's an opportunity for me to use this in a way to help to help create social liberation to help create social healing because as you know we live in a shithole world and it's it's very scary right now. Yeah absolutely. We're very far from routes. I know but right but there is a lot of pain and a lot of trouble and you work at one of the reasons. I'm excited to talk to you. Is You are person that's like you don't just talk about it. Something that I would point the finger at myself as I talk about pain and suffering. But you're out there working for change but I understand. Yeah E. M. I. Wanting to take back that Label necessarily But we're starting with theory and I do want to start with you as a person you. I five of siblings so I'm an only child born to a Mexican immigrant and angle father and I lived with my Mexican mother. Tell us about twelve in east Texas and longview Texas Bay Split Up. They split up when I was. I don't I don't remember my dad being at home ever While they were together I want to ride. It's harder over zoom needed up but if you were sitting on the couch right there which is where we normally do it. I would have jumped in and been like 'cause I'm interested at the age when when parents split up with a powerful thing. Yeah they split up when I was maybe four or five and you know I I have fond memories of my dad coming on the on the weekends and picking me up from apple would daycare in taking me to sonic to get a cherry lie. Made and I know it's horrible for you for your insights but I still have still would love to get a cherry lie made. Of course. My Dad's been deceased for several years. But I have fond memories of that. What did he? What was his vocation? He was a construction worker and self employed and worked very hard. He was one of the first folks. doing back in the day when cell phones were just becoming a thing he would go in and do all the excavation where for cell phone towers so he would contract with. Motorola. At and T. All all the big carriers well and at of the ahead of the curve so he did a lot of construction where I mean he hauled cottonseed when I was very young. He always did construction work of some sort but they split up what I was. Maybe four or five and my mom who has a sixth grade? Education decided to enroll in Catholic school. And she knew that the church could do all the things that she couldn't do that she could show me how to cook. Show me how to you know. Take a bath but in terms of education and spiritual care. She knew the church could do that so she enrollment Catholic school. But I never made my first communion which is something that you do when you're enrolled in a parochial school because you're attending church and getting an education. Well I had theological questions about the Virgin Birth of Man Robert. I love it. I was going to make a joke. But you ran out of the room slippery and wet and like you did like you fled. Yeah just like miss it or no one asked you you like. I don't know about the Virgin Birth. Yeah and Forgive me but that's very very a touchy subjects for Catholics. Specifically right anytime you're messing with my homeboy is Richard Roy and yeah at GM as progressive as he is when he talks about the Virgin. Mary he's very careful about you. Don't WanNa do that so tell me that story. They're saying L. Robin. We're GONNA give you your first communion. Yes so I just had these questions about. I didn't believe I didn't believe which which became like a recurring theme in my life. This struggle with doubt and I think I just didn't buy it. You know I just had questions and I wanted more information. You didn't want to pretend I didn't want to pretend like I wanted to be authentic I was also attending a Baptist Church at the same time as as I was attending Catholic school and I had a real come to Jesus moment at the Southern Baptist Church and that felt authentic like authentic profession of faith. If you will and so I you know I like to joke. When I'm with my friends that became a theologian a very young age. Asking these questions and always very curious about the big questions of my but it really was it really was. I didn't do this and I literally sat in the Pew in Wash. All of my classmates take their first communion first confession So and I was there alone. You are bad as I know that was painful and I only I empathize. I'm like you by the way I have to ask. People might be surprised to hear this but I have to go in and find my emotions to very typical. Three things But that's genuine like I'm like that is a powerful thing I'm interested though if you're at a Baptist church you had kind of like a charismatic or more emotional well I mean I mean I think it's all contrived right I mean that's sort of my sense it. It was a traditional southern Baptist church. It wasn't super charismatic. Very conservative very fundamentalist in their theology and and I but I felt like I had found a home. They're now of course I was very young and yes I followed through with baptism and everything but I was really charting the spiritual journey on my own. I didn't have any help from family or anything. I would literally get up. Get Myself Ready. Go to church. I would take the bus to church by myself. No one was forcing you to go to this Weird Baptist Church for your thing weird mad. I was doing this on my own. Why if you had doubt why? Are you going to a church? You didn't have to go to well. I think that I've always looking for belonging I understand and I think that's one of the reasons why became a scholar. Became an academic is because ideas matter and ideas make me feel like I belong and and the idea of going to a church being surrounded by people like minded people. I felt like maybe there was a chance for me to fit now. I've always been gender non conforming. I've always felt different sexually. This was way before I came out as Queer and Trans but I always felt a little bit different than everybody else but there was but there was a space for me in that Baptist Church. I was just going to say it's such A. It's kind of a contradiction or strange. Something strange is going on meaning but churches. This can be inclusive thing on the surface. Yep So when I'm thinking of my youth group in my Church of course I don't know if they're trans now. There were people that were like. Yeah this was. Probably Queer person came for the light of the community and right with my joke the Potato Salad Yep I found a lot of comfort in my church even though I was dealing with my own doubts and whatever that they were sort of morally obliged to be kind yeah in so that similar like everybody was nice totally totally and I think too because I was living with a single parent that there was that much more affection for me that I was showing up in church in in really. It's it's how I develop my moral compass Good bad indifferent. It's just what happened to me that learned right and wrong from going to church now. Have lots of critiques of of this to toossion whatnot but At that time it was a place of home for me in a place of belonging. It's interesting I I remember it. My I went to a Bible College. It's not Really Bible Colleges Christian College and our Professor Marv Wilson was very adamant he was he was the guy that was saying like the Old Testament is important. Ot Professor Yeah and he was like people are always putting aside but they're like our culture sort of like you for better or worse is built on the ten commandments where the country learned. It's basic ethics because believe it or not kind of revolutionary that we were like okay. Here's the things you shouldn't do. Yeah Yeah and you know I when I was twelve. I moved to live with my dad. Also there's someone mowing the lawn outside my window. I'm sure you can hear that if that's your partner vacuuming maybe we could ask them to stop. But that's a lawnmower What can we do? Yeah that he was like he's leaf blowing or something anyways slung. No when I was twelve I moved to live with my dad and San Antonio and as a way as a way to I think be stable. My situation living with my mom was not good. We were in deep poverty. We had electricity off and on We food scarcity and whatnot She did not know how to manage her anger and I was the the beneficiary of her of her anger. If you will and so I I needed to get out right until I left when I was twelve. It's and before you were twelve. I mean this again sounds very much like if I was you. I'd be like where is the Church Right Pizza? If it's anything like majors they got some safety they have figures to. Yep exactly and I- NFL in. It's a place where I felt safe and I didn't always feel safe at home and Yeah I mean you know I I can say that. My mom was abusive and I'm still dealing with that. You know so I have this history of trauma and thank God for Therapy. You know And God for supportive friends and colleagues and partners who love me through the dark times you know but I moved to live with my dad to get out of that situation and I went literally from poverty to affluence because he was doing very well and so well that we had someone cleaning the house and cooking our food so when I got up every morning and Leno was her name she asked me. What did I want for breakfast? And what did I want for lunch? And what did I want for dinner? Wow and she would make my bed and do my clothes and I became friends with her but it was a very different life. I still wanted to go to church. Can I ask a weird question? What I'm going to say it in a funny way but like what took so long. If it was like you could be having that. There must have been loyalty to your mom. Did you have some of that? I think I didn't know I had a choice. Okay yeah I mean. It wasn't until I was twelve and it was. It was mother's Day of nineteen eighty nine and and I didn't know that I had a choice before my dad asked me is a time for you to come live with me. Awhile did he. I'm assuming he didn't know the details of your situation didn't know the details and those details didn't come out for very long time because I didn't know how to talk about abuse it in how to talk about how strange my situation was and you know like thank. God for my dad. I really felt like he rescued me But I went from an abusive situation to situation where powering control was very present and I ride a little bit about this in my book around. How my dad was trying to shape me into this Texas Republican but but because Jenine conforming and felt sexually different that I buck the system at every turn and he just didn't know what to do with me but a you know. I was gifted academically in so I sank teeth into school and I wasn't a kid who went to clubs or with the parties. I was in high school band and my big event was Friday night football games and in the marching band and whatnot And those things really grounded me and so I still have a love for music and in fact I. I went to college on a music. Scholarship before I gave it up we'll replay was playing a wide variety of instruments trombone in jazz ban the euphonium baritone for marching band concert band and then my senior. High School. I played to a concert Tuba because the first year Tuba Guy Was hit and killed by a car. No yeah so it was an emergency situation so they moved me to to to play for share Tuba. I shared I share with Jason Euphonium and he was a he was. I think he was Mormon and so there was even religion. You know different following you. Yeah okay you're telling such a fascinating story. I don't want to skip over too much. You told me you told your mom that you wanted to live with your dad on Mother's Day. Yeah I I'm not. This is not a show where I'm trying to like. Just provoke you to have an an emotional response and saying what was it like. You have an abusive It I don't know if your mom was borderline or if she was hot cold or whatever was going on but you had to basically break out of prison but you you did a jailbreak of sorts in a mode. Elbrick's yeah how was that and then I really want more detail on like your dad is like oh I've saved you and you're like Hey dad I'm not I don't even know how you articulated. Yeah we can just say. I'm Trans Right. I need all the details. I need every detail. It's moved to death so that day. I had gone to look for a friend of mine who had run away until I didn't come home after church and my mom thought I had run and it was mother's Day I had not run away. I had gone to check on a friend who had run away and ran away by proxy right right and when I got home a Church. Deacon brought me home and My mom was frantic and it was mother's Day and so she called my dad. And you know I think it was her last cry. You know we were. We were living on a shoe. String I mean. We weren't making it in any way and this was this was really hurt ticket out too. Because when I left she ended up excelling at her job and became store manager and of sears and grew a lot in the company for not having an education. So you know my leaving was salvation for both of us in many respects Sort of a gift isn't it was a gift. I mean it's it's a it's a deep pain and a deep wound and every mother's Day like I just don't do mother's Day. Yeah because for obvious reasons like I just don't feel like I have the relationship with my mother to To wish her a happy mother's Day I will to other people and that's how I'm sort of mend myself a little bit. I will wish other people happy mother's Day but it's really hard when it comes to my mom. Yeah but he seeing has. It could've gone the other way you left was worse off right. There's there's There's gotta be a word in French for what this is. It's it's sort of like a happy tragedy right but she did thrives right and I'm happy for you that that that's the way that it went. I mean I mean I wouldn't. I don't think I would be where I am today. Had I not left so this concept of leaving Followed me you know not only leave my mom and that abusive situation but I ended up leaving my dad because of his power and control issues leaving the church because they can't get their shit together in Ultimo. I end up leaving academia after the twenty sixteen election. Because I'm like fuck this. I'm going to do my own thing. You know so that. That is a constant thing that followed me. You're a warrior. That's the word for this right around that age. You don't agree with twelve thirteen. I know we'RE GONNA get into gender stuff so it's interesting that I'm bringing up like a male induction right the idea that that's when you're coping with death and loss and yeah Self reliance that was impose on you. Yeah usually women are just like and I. I hate this because I have a daughter and I'm like how am I gonNa Teach Your Power and strength and all these yeah Usually and I caught myself doing this. We go oh well she'll get her period. And that's how women are right rod into the dance right whereas men traditionally like we are going to have to dig your own grave in the right right. You it's weird to be happy for somebody but because I see what it's doing in your life you were inducted into like a very powerful It's obviously not a tradition because it was specific to you like a powerful tradition. Yes yeah okay. You're telling me that you you move in with your dad. You there's this power imbalance and it's sort of like a weird twilight zone dream that things are good but under the surface like you said. There's there's there's the imbalance and all these different things and you have your gender identity. Yeah and I'm saying we didn't have now my mom I always use. My mom was a seventy something year old woman. She knows what Trans and Trans is at this point in Texas. You can't just say I'm trans. You need your reveal party for me or right is right you. How how did you identify yourself? I mean you didn't even have those those yet and have that language You know I knew that I didn't feel like I was a girl but I also didn't feel like I was a boy and you know there was. There were certain expectations that my dad wanted me to meet and it just didn't feel right to me like like if you see my high school senior picture I did. A glamour shot remember those of course with Lasers Ayob lasers and I'm like awesome up and I'm like this is so not me and it was like the only but but it was a that was an expectation of course right. I think we're the same. We must be around the same age. Because I'm like that is right in the pocket. If you're feeling conflicted you don't know your identity. But you feel this imposition. You're supposed to do this. You gotTa Glamor shots on there. Right right kick butt was also happening in this time as I was recovering from two brain surgeries. I had a brain aneurysm. When I was sixteen robin what is going on what? The story is fascinating. You had brain surgery. Yes so in. Nineteen ninety-three the summer before I was a senior in high school. That will tell you how old I am. I suffered a brain in Arizona. I was was had been invited to play for the US. Olympic festival the opening ceremonies and San Antonio Texas and while Kristi Yamaguchi was skating. And we were doing our band drills I pass down and they rushed me to the hospital and they were like your child has a bleed a brain bleed and so you know it was in ICU. And then like my stats went down. And my pupils were fixing dilated Us like clinically dead. So they performed emergency brain surgery on me you were clinically dead crazy right. I didn't see I didn't see any white light or anything. Yeah you know this. I don't know if you've ever listened to this podcast. That's course where I'm going. I'm like you have an NDA is what's going on but forgetting NDA. You had a near death experience. You were basically dead. Yeah was it. It's a weird whenever somebody is Was brought on by anything. It was just genetic genetics. I was born with A malformation in my brain. Wow and that's when it bursts but you know thank goodness at burst when it did because the woman my dad married we. We had an antagonistic relationship. She would have said Oh. Just take two advil lay down. Why would a died while but but because I was unconscious they wouldn't release her to. They wouldn't release me to her when she came to the Alamo Dome to pick me up and the paramedics were like I'm sorry. But Robin is unconscious. We're taking robin to the hospital. Wow and so they took me to the hospital and they were working me up in the Er and they were like is robin pregnant. Does Robin do drugs? And my dad was like no robin goes to church. Robin is not pregnant or does drugs and later they they did a cat scan. They found the bleed. They performed emergency surgery. I was in a coma for three days. I was in the hospital for about a mind thin and had a subsequent surgery five days later. Three days vary on brand and rose from the dead is they ran out of room so they put you in like a big role away to it was exactly. It was weird. Yup Yup. That's incredible wow. I'm so glad that you are okay. You know it's weird right I I don't know what to make of it other than grace and I don't even understand that. But how did I go on to finish high school on time? Go on to Excel College. How did I go on to accelerate graduate school and do a PhD? I don't know but resilient is certainly a theme in my Life Jeff for sure. I'm seeing an image of these like very uneven and dirty and bad stepping stones but like the path is pretty forward moving. It was painful but like things kept propelling him forward including what I think. We're getting into now. I mean You're starting to talk about how you are identifying. What language did you give yourself? He said he didn't feel like a boy. You didn't feel like yeah. I mean I didn't really have language around gender until I was in graduate school even in College. The term gay or lesbian didn't resonate with me. The only word that resonated with me was queer. Because I don't have exclusive sexual emotional or intellectual desire for one gender and that whole binary gay or lesbian requires a sort of exclusivity of of of desire. And that's not that's not really where I land. I think desires very complicated and informed by lots of things in our world and for me my my desire is to be connected with someone and it just so happens that my attraction is for a particular kind of person but even even vad doesn't rely on gender so much and so the terms gay and lesbian didn't resonate with me. I started reading queer theory when I was in college at the Small Baptist University in West Texas that I would buy. I would read it by myself because to take those books in the class would be to out myself in a way and when to a Bible College. Well Yeah I mean. I mean probably similar to you a Christian University. Yeah Yeah Yeah in West Texas and the the funniest story that I have was my friend just show. Who is a tall white? Cisgender man I would carry around these feminist theology books because I was also reading sort of outside the norm at that time was out. I'm intellectually curious so I was reading on this feminist theology and some young Undergrad and I was taking some Grad classes and was almost graduating with my undergrad. But a young Undergrad went up to Josh at the School of Theology. Where we were all studying instead is robin a lesbian and Josh. I'm really grateful for Josh for doing this. Because Josh said why do you ask and the young student Said Well Robin Three Feminist Theology and Josh said I read feminist. Theology. Does that make me a lesbian? Or how better and you know it was really great because I I. I've never felt like lesbian have appreciation for lesbian politics. But don't feel like a lesbian right but you're seeing that the brain really really wants. I'm speaking from my own experience when I was in Christian College. One of the appeals of it was how dualistic it was you were and they were out there yet we would say the same. They are the Catholic. Or are they do they smoke? We wanted right right right early. Are they a lesbian? Would be a nice neat container to put right right. Why you're asking right. Make your friends or to bat asked to be like. Why are you asking? Yeah Yeah if you. I hope this doesn't sound through. Churches feels pretty Chrysler to just be like. What would businesses that of your? Yeah and we see that Jesus who doesn't seem to care about such thing right so ever right But he that that is a great story I my I started getting nervous. When you mentioned a straight white SIS gendered male in West Texas out college right right. I know how that could go sideways. You people were looking for a box to put. Yeah and and always pete man always people are looking for a box to put me in your and I think you know being a Non Binary Trans. Queer person is doesn't make sense to people and you know night now that I take testosterone and my voice deepened and I have hair in places that I don't normally have hair you know. People are people are confused and I think I think this is being gender. Expansive is the way I like to talk about it and is part of being free I think and instead of being boxed in to a hole that contains you in constricts you I would rather celebrate my expansiveness. My gender expansiveness in the terms of being non binary now. I Left College at the courage of two SIS- white professors to go steady at Grad school. And I moved to Chicago. Cut My teeth on radical queer politics and began reading more about gender and came across gender. Fuck Gender Queer. I Dunno agenda. Fuck it so it's fucking with gender categories. Okay Good. They picked a good name. Yeah Gender Virk and that was the first time really in the early two thousands that I was able to have some language about myself. That what I'm doing is I'm fucking with gender. Yeah you to wait a long time. I had to wait a long time. I mean that is. That's helping me realize my privilege I was just like I. I'm I'm in a man body. I feel like a man or whatever that means and I'm like this. This is easy. And Yeah you had to wait until Grad school define books and mentors and Mirrors Yup. See Yourself at will. I'm sure we'll get into this later. But it is really interesting to me. The the the narrative of the Trans Person I've always related to it. Because my sphere trod he has so much to do with. Aren't we consciousness? Aren't we souls? And we do get so lost in the external and we get so lost in the binary yet when you look at contemplation and oh a way of looking at everything and resisting. Nothing saying Yes to what is an identifying what Christians we call us all. It is so weird. If you push that a little bit people go like no no no no no you're man. Saul and you're right right right right when all of that is just our meat puppets right. I know a big part of this is respecting our meat. Puppets and finding peace and enjoyment and feeling at home in our meat puppets but spirituality should have been in my in my opinion on the front lines of being late. Of course our true self is is is beyond this which would be the Munster fucking with everything. Yeah they're the ones clinging deborah. Yeah we do one. I think that being non binary and a person being one who fucks gender is in line with WHO Jesus was as someone who turned over the tables in the temple and outfox two empire and fucked with the system and questioned the system. And so you know when people want to debate on scripture and whatnot. I'm like look y'all I read scripture as a theologian so I'm happy to talk about this. He here's my response. I think this is in line with who Jesus was as a resistor. Yeah as a rabble rouser Right up to Dork like you meet a rabble rouse. I do think it's funny. How often people keep pushing Jesus to be like. But this is what it's supposed to be and usually he's confronted by another another Jewish person. He's just going like that's not what it's about that's not. What does the bow he keeps telling stories and parables about the? Don't make sense right actually. Just found this out if you'll forgive a little sidebar here that Jesus tells the story about the workers And there's the workers at started work. Let's say eight. Am and then. There's the workers that showed up at six. Pm and the punchline is that everybody got paid the same so he's he's he's sort of challenging the idea of grace is challenging the idea of God's goodness he sang. It doesn't matter it doesn't work in the way that you think it does. Obviously the person that starts eight and goes till eight PM should make more than the person that started six and goes too late. He's like not. Everybody gets the same. Fuck off that's for. Damn I didn't know was that it was a classic Jewish story that they had they would have been familiar with. It would have been me like me telling a joke that you would know like yeah and changing. The punchline was even more salacious exciting because the story that the Jewish audience would have been familiar with was the workers that showed up at six would have had to work three times as much and they would have made lasts and like it was a story to go like so show up at eight. Am Right. Jesus was like consistently giving that you gotta earn it? You have to think it you have to understand it. You have to know it and you have to do it within the lines is like don't you see grace has nothing to do with that and I don't know how my faith was formed. When every time I look at Jesus he's telling a story where he's like and then at the end God loves you anyway. That story what it brings up for me is around embodiment that that. Jesus was teaching us to embody a different way of being And how we resist that. And we want certainty and we want binary as and we want categories. That's right but really what Jesus invites us to do is to embody different orientation. That's and it could start now right. If it can't start at six pm how what chance do we have at now like way. Every you're doing the grace and the truth and the mystery is available to flow through you right now and it's the brain that keeps going but I need to be there on Thursday at eight. Am I was just thinking about that? I was I was walking my daughter this morning. It was very early. She got a very early this morning and I was thinking about that. Jesus tells a story about Looking out for the coming of the kingdom like you're waiting for a burglar to break into your house so he's trying. Eckhart totally helped me realize that tim saying be in the moment if I were a burglar to come in. Guess what you're paying attention. You're you're looking for details if you're going have to explain them to the police lane right. I'M NOT GONNA walk by these wildflowers. I'M GONNA look at them with my daughter. Yeah 'cause this is a detail this right. Be The fuck here so that has no place. I'm preaching now but that has no place between eight. Am and eight PM. Your brain is not invited to the party in the way that you want. Yeah it's in the way and well and what has created conditions for the brain to take up so much space in our lives is the the Hetero patriarchal capitalist machine. Nobody said that on the PODCAST Hetero yes to the state capitalist the patriarchal so so so the Hendro Patriarchal capitalist machine. Socializes is so that our brain takes up so much space and we are not able to be present or have this embodied life that I think that's right on the fields very mailed to me. Talk Mail Yeah Bad Dad. Yeah to me to always be. I admitted you at the beginning of this podcast that I think my feelings. That is a classic male pitfall. Certainly everybody has it. Yeah but it's it's it feels if I'm using a right backfield's patriarchal that's valuable. Yeah is if I can turn my emotions into useful and not useful right. I can make more money right. I and I've thrived that I've turned I've turned aspects of my life that are sacred into ways of making money. Yes man necessarily wrong but like joking around with friends. Stand up comedy arguing with people podcasting. It's been it's been put through this three any a grandma again filter of what can we make it into something? I'm right I'm right there with you. I I feel involved in that I feel like I don't WanNa say a victim and I don't WanNa say a beneficiary. I feel involved and yeah well we all are. So we're all conscripted into this reality In in in ways that harm us in ways that help us be successful in ways that you know we don't show up is our best selves. I mean it's a mixed bag you know. These are the waters that were swimming in. That's that's I mean. I feel like this is your specialty. What are the inherited waters? That were swimming. And I mean you. You've spent so much of your life not fitting into them. Yeah there's so much value in going I. I'm pointing out the three nasty achiever news meaning. It doesn't matter if it's true it matters if it works right That that's something. I was just thinking about today. I was feeling stressed and I was like For what it's worth we don't have to get into it. I try not to look at pornography. That's just for me. It's not even in the Jesus Way. It's just for my brain chemistry. It's better when I don't do it. And I caught my three brain my achiever brain going but it works. You are stressed you want a sexual stimulus. Look at it. Jerk off feel better. That was a very clear cut example of the three nece and the sort of capitalist part of my brain rain era about the sex workers and their treatment and was there were stolen and uploaded illegally right about My Brain Chemistry. I don't care about. I don't care about anything. I care that stressing this will work. Yeah that is part of the water that were swimming and we don't care if it's true we care if it works right right. Yeah it's about productivity right. It's about achievement. It's about How many boxes we check off. Yes that's and that's about capitalism. That's right I I definitely feel like a like someone who has to wake up. And and his hopefully is waking up to the ways in which capitalism and productivity and thinking has robbed me from. I and I'm working on this every day because I do think I find real moments of connection with people and with my family and my friends but that is like I'm forty one years old. I'm now you said embodiment. I lit up when you said that. All I'm trying to do is get in touch with my body as a as a as a me as what I am. I felt like I was taught to not feel my dancing. I just had this is. I'm sorry I'm talking so much. But I had this huge breakthrough my wife Ow. She dances a lot and we have dance parties with our now we put on fund music and we dance and that's the first. I'm forty one and I've now just had the first experience where am dancing? Not because the music sounds like you should probably be not denying right. Oh this is the part. We put our hands up the part where you might be more Staccato. Because it's like yeah the answering because Thou said this Dimitri does let your body choose how it wants to move. It's your body's time. Yeah you're does it feel good when your hips move. Yeah feel good when you throw your hands up that never even buck in occurred to me that you might dance because it feels good forty one. Yeah all I wanted to do was not look stupid. I wanted to fit in so I did dance. I dance at weddings but I did it because I didn't want to be a Weirdo. That wasn't dancing right now. I'm finally getting in touch. I can feel my hips in there. Something wider voice. That goes well. That's feminine it's Feminine to move your. It's feminine to throw up your. What do we call that? Flamboyant what's flamboyant it's code for you look gay right right and now. I'm grateful to have thou obviously I'm grateful to have my daughter and I sometimes I'll just mirror my eighteen month old daughter. And she's got some moves she yeah you know. It's interesting that you talk about dancing because my partner is a dancer and Joyce and as a five on instagram and has an intense entered. Moving in dancing is not something that is in my repertoire. We're friends and and dances all the time as an accomplished dancer and has been dancing for thirty years and I am so intimidated. Move in front of her but the more I do in the more the more. I'm invited to move the more I feel my body so much. So that my next book is on embodiment and is just a whole bunch of stories about how I've come into my body then I can't wait. I mean it's been following me. I love that we're talking today because I'm GonNa Tell Val that we talked about embodiment and yeah it is chasing you. Hound of Heaven. It's chasing me 'cause I keep I again. I'm I'm a little embarrassed how much I love Ritchie roar but I'm watching these DVD's that. I found on his website and embodiment keeps coming up. I bought like fifteen of them so I'll at random and the way that I pick. He's talking about how Christianity and our culture as a whole has lost touch with the body. And I'm like not only do not know how I feel. I don't know how my body feels I write my stomach. Feels like I'm such. It makes me angry. I feel like a shadow of my father where I'm like. I have no relationship with my room or whatever it is. Yeah and I love that. You're working on that to tell me some of the things you're putting in this book. GimMe a taste I need. Yeah Yeah I mean. I'm I'm literally writing about my journey of becoming embodied so the journey of waking up not feeling like I recognize my body and so I now inject testosterone into my body to try to recognize my body. I take somatic cut. It helps. Yeah it helps it. Yeah start seeing what you feel like. Yeah Beautiful I'm so happy in the gender DIS Fauria goes away. I feel more like myself. I feel comfortable in my skin right so it stories about how I feel comfortable. My Skin and one of the stories is about Semantics and and in doing these movement classes to help me connect with myself and the whole premise of the book peed is when we become embodied it changes our orientation to other people And that creates a New Vision for democracy so if we can become embodied we can we can craft a New Vision for democracy. Helped me with that? Walk me through so if I become embodied and I have a relationship with my body I was just going to say. Let's define embody I've heard that term for many years I didn't know what it means literally means feeling experience. Yeah maintaining connection with your body. So we're talking about metaphysics here knowing you your fucking hips. You Enzi feel your body dude when I sorry. I shouldn't say that. But it's like Robin when I do. I I call everybody do when I do. My body skins. I'll do like a scam in medicine. I get to my genitals nothing. Yeah I've just learned that that is not an okay area to feel like the shame. Yeah so this isn't bodyman argument work. Yeah and and I plan to write about sex and I plan to write about my genitals and how on growing the Cock on T. and how that's a real thing and it changes job to name a cock onto. I'm growing knock on his such. I'm new to it but that sounds like such a gender fuck statement right but you know I think. I think we're all who grew up within evangelical Christianity or Conservative Christianity. We all were taught not to feel it anyway so pleasure and you only have sex for reproduction. So you're not supposed to enjoy it and let me tell you I'm in my forties and I haven't enjoyed sex more than I than I am now because I'm finally in my body. Yeah and I'm finally feeling something. The best sex valid I have had we usually will gays. I like gazing is just what it sounds like. We'll just look in each other's is sometimes helpful to set a timer. Because it's you lose sense of time and you don't want anyone to get to uncomfortable and that means me so you put like a timer for five minutes you gaze. What are we doing where actually getting in the body? I don't say this to be dismissive. She doesn't have as much of a hard time with that. Yeah Acting Yeah. The sex is actually. It's what you would call life-affirming sucks it's about sexuality life-affirming so what does he mean by that? I'm always careful. I don't want to just masturbate inside of my wife. Bright Bright the lot of my sex for a lot of my life. It's yes crass. It sounds like I was a sociopath. I'm just saying men in my experience. This man I can't speak for men. This man was taught. Sex is sort of a nebulous bad area. Yeah like dancing. It's like feeling your hips. It's like it's Feminine. You're you're inside of Vagina like you're you're merging. Yeah I mean one. Yeah so you are becoming a woman. you're becoming a nothing you're becoming a third thing. Yeah so get it over with do the position do dog doggy style. And and just jerk off and be done. Yeah there's another person there so the gazing. Is that way going like? Hey guess what I I know. You'd like to Where a Baseball Jersey and smoke a cigar while you do this but you're GonNa have to merge into something ancient mysterious embodied and vulnerable infomercial and keep going you're in your forties and then my forties. I'm having the best sex in my life because it's exactly what you say. It is about contemplating the mystery of becoming one with my partner. Yes and on quest. I not conquest yeah due to like I got laid I scored. I got lucky you were allowed to put your Dick in. It might as well just be like a jar of Jelly right or was nothing in it that right. This is the mystery. Phrases creation itself production now known the mystery but it but it is. It's creative in. Its potential to help us be one with with one another. And so you know my partner. And I have a wide variety of sects and positions and whatnot and in every time because we're consent focused and because it's about pleasure and because it's about experiencing the sacredness in the mystery of this thing is called pleasure. Were having the best time of our life. I love the yeah and you feel safe you partner. Where young I can be safe. I can be safe and you know the best thing I think for Trans People. It's hard for Trans People. I think to find partners where were bodily autonomy is respected. What do you mean by that you? I know what atonomy means but I'm not exactly sure. Well you know because we are because we are consent focused in because we both believe that we have bodily autonomy that that my partner's body is not mine to consume. My Body is not hers to consume. Because because we have these orientations that are prevalent. I think within queer communities one of the greatest things one of the greatest gifts is a trans person is that I have a partner who not only respects my body and my choices but seeks to pleasure my body in in whatever ways she can and that's been a great gift because I I had a partner for a long time who was very Anti Trans and even though at that point you you were you were well. Well the funny story about that is my former partner said well you're not trance because you're not on. T. You're not trans. Because you're you're not a male and I'm like I'm not trying to become a man or a male and this was before non binary existed non binary is only been around really in the discourse for about four years. Wow so deng even for bamboo yes yes yes yes. Wow so so the fact that I don't have to fight with a partner to be seen as a trans person is huge. Because I was with someone for so long that that fought me on that tooth and nail. It's so heartbreaking you see it with race and you see all hours of marginalized groups when they when and I. I'm sure there's lots of psychological and valid reasons that I can't even understand what when when it starts eating itself. You know and he made them. Yes safe spaces become right not safe space right right what I what I find so fascinating about all of this is i. I feel like we're supposed to be having a conversation about how different we are in a sort of how we started this conversation. Yeah I asked about your life. I've always just related so hard to to this year story and stories like it because it's my story about authenticity. He asked about figuring out who you are. That's why I'm talking about the water. What world did we grow up in? What did we inherit What what is actually your dream. What is actually your life. What is actually your truth. And what was just given to you. I don't care who you are. You might be the most meat and potatoes straight male or straight female in the world. They're still something in your life where you're like. This needs light on it. I need to open this window. I need to open this door because society told me to close that were known close. That door even has nothing to do with sexuality or your body self-realisation spiritual realization is embodied. So so writ large in stories like they get really excited. Well you know you talk about. We're supposed to be talking about how different we are. But I think we fail like one of the things that I think is happening right now in this country. Particular in the United States is were failing to be human with one another and we're failing to see what connects us to one another. So I do a lot of stuff around bridging across lines of radical difference and recognizing that our differences bring us together and whatnot but one of the things is is that is true I think for for all of us were failing to be human with one another and because we are failing to be human with one another we are failing to ourselves which is part of the reason why we can't be embodied. That's right my do. I keep feeling that I'll I'll go through facebook and I see other comedians. I can find my brain being so hard on them again. I was reading my book and it was like Pete. That's what you do. You are not at peace or even aware of how hard you are on yourself. How angry you can be with yourself. How a shamed you are? What psychology would call your child Self Your Camp? Which is this week vulnerable thing to this persona that? I built so disgusting. I can't love that part of myself. So I- project it again. I don't troll people. I'm not nasty but I notice if I'm going to facebook and someone's career as an flourishing. I'll catch myself going. Well it's because this this or this and I'm like you do that to yourself. You're doing what you're doing to take it to another place when you see people's political divides and I'd love to hear you speak on this. Richie was just talking electro as hearing him give twenty years ago. It's an old lecture. We talking about like if you're talking to somebody and you're just trying to turn them into you. You've you've failed you forgotten and I hate that. The word love has been reduced in watered down into this fluffy hallmark thing. But you're not loving them frank. You're not giving them the goods. Yes talking about candy. You're not giving them any candy candy interesting. How about give them some fucking out? Yeah how `Bout give them you don't know where they are get. Let them in. And I'm I'm personally thinking about people whose politics a hardcore trump supporters that. I'm not I do not live with them so I catch myself. The temptation is to get binary with a get. Do stick with it and go. Oh they're idiots. You see it with. He says drink bleach and people like well. Maybe we should let them write. What are we doing? We're fighting a bad fire with a bad fire. Where like let them die. Well that's what they're saying about weak and elderly people and we don't we see nobody's loving anybody right and it's just an era barrosa downward spiral of the hell. It's creating a hell. Yeah wherever we owe you wear a red hat. And you're this and that motherfucker if you're stuck on a boat with that guy or that woman you better become friends you would guess what you want. And that's why we love movies like would be forced to forge a soul connection and I don't mean some stuff like Sarah Silverman did a beautiful thing where she went to somebody. A big trump supporters house. It's hard to do an authentic conversion there for both of you because cameras are there about end of the world. You're on a boat. Now you'll find each have to. Yeah that's how change happens right change when you have to do right and you change when you change yourself. That's right beautiful. When you change yourself you changed the world. Yeah I mean we I. I spent a lot. I mean I live in the south in the American south and so there are lots of trump's supporters here and one of the things that I try to do I mean of course not now because I'm living a quantum life but having dinner with conservative evangelical. It's hard to hate people over a good food. Yeah I'm just GONNA say biscuits help a lot. Yeah Yeah totally. But you know but you know the the the reality is is is. We have sunk our nails into ideology in a way that dehumanizes each other and when we actually look at our politics and by that I mean our social practices where we buy coffee where we spend their time who our friends are won't begin to look at our politics. We we become more acquainted with their values will become acquainted with our values. We can figure out where we share. And where the distances with people. That's really the work that we need to be doing with one another which is about relationship which is about embodiment which is about becoming human with one another. I was just GonNa say that goes back to your wonderful point about embodiment. Yes if you are you're ideologies you've stopped being a body exactly when I am a body. The amount that you and I have in common is insane. Yup going I mean we are humans where we humanize ourselves right. There's so much more that we have going. But we're ideologies. You just walked into a library that I've been building since I was four years old right. Good Luck finding me right. That is the spiritual in my opinion. That's one of the main charges. In one of the reasons I'm drawn to religion I'm drawn to spirituality is it's going. You're not your thoughts. You're not even your beliefs. Let's bring it. Let's strip it down to something. More elemental more fundamental. Because that's where we can eat biscuits absolutely and and you know I love that. You said we're not our thoughts because as it academic as a person who has a PhD. I was really identified with an academic being a person in the academy but when I discovered that the Academy of Higher Education is just self perpetuating elitism I will I was able to unhinge from that. And and and reorient myself toward becoming human with myself. Wow it was another wall. Is that what you mean? It was another wall and said in two thousand sixteen. As when you sort of broke away I was on faculty in Berkeley and Love Libanan the bay area. Thought it'd be like Queer Utopia and couldn't find my people well and was there for a couple of years on faculty in Berkeley Teaching Ethics. And you know had great students but couldn't find my people and so after the election I was like my work needs to be rooted in the south. I'm heading home so moved to Nashville was a coming home. I leaving and coming home. You're so fearless. I can't believe it. I can't. I guess I'm used to talking to Comedians. We really love our fears. Oh really well I because you're disparaging about yourself right. We like that. I just kidding. Certainly comedians are fearless in certain ways. But like when it comes to like really An induced earthquake like yeah. I'M GONNA give myself earthquake. Yeah I'm GonNa take this from like you said Queer Utopia which wasn't but like so many people would just ride it out so many people ride it out at their dad's house be a Republican. You should have just done whatever. Your Dad's saying Lord have mercy. This is Jesus turning over the tables. Again this yeah. Don't you just WANNA fit him? Don't you just want to eat? Pb and J. Right. I forgot her name. It starts with an E. It's Elena Elena that Elena made you and you keep saying no. I hope you have enough people. You don't need me tweeting out. Just what were you are you went? I appreciate I mean I appreciate it. I mean you know everybody that I left in the bay area. They were mortified. Wow even my therapist was like. Oh my God. Are you going to get competent care? You know and of course I am seeing at the at the Trans Clinic here in Nashville and the person who heads it up as my doctor and I I receive not just competent care but proficient care. It's great and but everybody was mortified about me moving home to the south but but this was about reconnecting to myself. I but isn't that the it is. I don't have to ask you this question. But I'm going to but isn't that Hero's journey. I mean you need to take what you had you leave. You take what you've been given and then you bring it back now. I'm not going back to Boston but there is a going back like I. I sort of light up when I come around evangelicals when I come around people that that believed how I used to believe it gets me excited. And that is as Ritchie says the point of life to humbly and proudly return. What you've been given. Yeah I have to imagine at Berkeley. It was sort of challenging. You're taking something out of the out of the realm of ideology and and using it. I'm not saying they're not using it but you had to be kind of an uncomfortable mirror at that point. Yeah I mean I mean leaving. What's wrong with it right exactly and you know. They taught graduate students. And so like I had. I had a great GIG and and but I have a better GIG now at Duke. You know so I I mean I. I don't know what to say other than that time in my life was great because it taught me that I needed to be connected to my roots because because my always leaving also meant that I was leaving my rudeness and if we are going to be human with ourselves and be embodied we have to be rooted in something right. You need to feel safe right. Yeah I mean that sort of goes back to what we were saying as much as I like to Sort of I don't WanNA say Cooper Seidel up to but like I look at the Trans thing and I go. That's right we're not even our bodies. Okay that's great. Thank you but also we need to feel safe and identified in our bodies right. That's part of it too. You may have those roots for me. I'm calling Bull Shit on myself. It's easy for me to be like. Oh I am routed. Let's start talking about how we're really just our awareness. Great Robin and thousands. Millions of people like you need to find that identity to root out a little bit. Well I mean I think that finding my roots has been a long journey and it was after I finished my. Phd was in Hot Springs North Carolina sitting on a second story balcony. It was hot as fuck and oats in my underwear and -taying with a companion and this person said to me three things. You're not agnostic. You're still becoming and you're disconnected from your roots. Now Right. That's a lot. That's a lot now. I had just written about three hundred pages on the topic of becoming for my dissertation so I know a lot about what it means to become. I I know the philosophy of it So I was like I'm still becoming. What tied this road on that? The you're not agnostic. Was like a prophetic moment to say that that this person was saying to me. It's not all ideas and thinking you gotta get your hands dirty. 'cause Agnosio them based on this conversation like is thought that you can't think about God properly right right right so it's like a it's A. It's a thought that goes. You can't think it and somebody needs to go like but it's it's about. It's something Trans Rational. It's right on. I'm not saying that because your chance. That is one of my favorite words in the world transnational. It's beyond the realm and the possibility of thinking. Yeah this is what Mrs says experiencing. Yep exactly exactly so. It's about becoming about experience. It's about getting my hands dirty which which is about filling rooted in something and so at. Twenty fifteen I-. I headed back to the bay area and spent the next you know year and a half Teaching and whatnot and and Mike Companion was right. I was disconnected from my roots. What was I doing? I mean I had left Texas for Chicago for Grad School to Seminary in Chicago northwestern left Chicago for Denver Colorado to do pd not my roots and then left. Colorado for California to teach. Because I thought it'd be great to teach a Berkeley which it was but also route. So how do I? How do I do my work from a place of rootlessness and so after my companion told me this I was like I gotta get right with myself and you know what and you know what Pete? I started. Journaling this question. Who Am I and how do I know? And for the next five years from two thousand fifteen to now. That's five years. I continue to journal about that question. Who Am I in? How do I know and and so after the election I was like am loading up my car with my AMAC. I drive a Prius so everything I owned at. That time could fit in my car except my books. My books were in storage somewhere. I loaded up my car. I made the long trip Easter Nashville and I landed in Nashville. And I was like this is where I'm GonNa make home. This is where I'm gonNA grow roots. This is where I'm GonNa shed their rootlessness and get right with myself. It feels very old testament. I mean that in a good way. There's so much identity. Yeah Richie has helped me realize that Israel is like the stand in for the collective for everybody basically which was really eye opening for me because it sort of included me in something that felt so he break and Jewish. This isn't for me but the other side of that is. There is a physical in a practical way of being like I am a part of a group part of a clan. Part of a people and there's value to that they can serve your spirit. Yeah like you're saying. Yeah that's wonderful. So you get to Nashville Nashville. And I finished my Book Actress Theology and they send it back and they're like this is great. We love your work. This is not the book we wanted and I was like what they're like. We want your story. I was like fuck me. You have a great story and so. I rewrote the entire book. Shit Yup turn it in found my people here and launched my scholarship as a collaborative project called the activists. The algae project rather than what? I'm sorry to interrupt a what a great. I'm a visual thinker. I'm this is a movie. This is a great third bag moment where we're shifting from head to heart and you had a. I'm assuming a heady book yet like an intellectual academic book amd they literally you had a real world not like. The clouds didn't open. You had publishers. Saying we want this. Yeah this we and you had someone say to you. You're not agnostic. Yeah you have these challenging things and you're receptive and you took in and this is bringing you into your body and bringing you dab the book. Keep going rewrite the book from a place of heart and I mean it's still an academic book but it's it's full of story and you know it's done. Well I hear great things from people that people really resonate with it and I end up. San Let me launch my scholarship. These ideas that I've been percolating. Let me launch it as a collaborative project around social healing and social justice until I work with three other amazing white folks with AC activists the algae project doing good work and I mean I'm on podcast. All the time talking about activist theology as a way to restore ourselves and a way to connect with ourselves and to become human with one another story. That's yeah good an a better way of saying recreate because we were just stories. Hope Michael Gungor. My my friend. He's like you are a story where we're living text and so I'm just trying to weave techs together and create a larger tax that is liberty for all of us. It's funny while you were saying that I was thinking about. How so much of this? Do the divisiveness comes from social media. And it's so funny. I know it can be healed and social media to potentially but it's like social media is just a megaphone for thoughts right like I again. It just gave me this image of like we need some place you mentioned food. I think it's interesting that Christ so much of his Hanging out around dinner table food damps. It's like we need like burning man for people who don't do. Md M. A. It's like yeah something where people can get their feet dusty. That can be some dancing. There can be some music. It sounds like we're gonNA launch something. I don't know if I if we can especially now what I'm saying but that was this will be amazing right but I. I'm actually telling you what I'm craving and I'd say to Val. I wish we lived on a farm. I wish we lived in a Commun- we both sort of have this dream of like communal living. Sometimes and I'm like what I'm really articulating is like what is something. You can't post on on facebook Is that is just helping us believe that we are thoughts. We are ideologies you said earlier it facebook is not where you get your coffee you might be thinking about or talking right. Offi but like so much of this needs to be brought into reality and that again is why. I think it's writ large in the Trans Story. Yeah talking about my body. Yeah wonder so threatening to so many because it doesn't matter who you are. We were disconnected from the first route. Which is our body eight beckoned route. Which is where our our our meat will like. I mean we we should be eating biscuits right now. It's what I'm saying angry I think so. Yeah and maybe either a Melissa or a beer yes I remember. We were emailing on four twenty and you reminded me that I I was going to get stoned anyway but I was like You ever reason to cap. Yeah I had a great my partner and I we had a great four twenty and I really WanNa do some exploratory writing on this next book around becoming embodied altered and and really like asked myself you know. Where am I in tune with my body when I am high? And and see what it produces robin. It's I I took LSD on my birthday. I turned forty one in March. I took a low dose it was thirty five micrograms so not of not even a half a tab yet and the first thing. I said deval because that's for people here. Lsd and think. I was riding dragon and the skype. Yeah I was there. I was not in charge of looking after our baby but I was certainly helpful to me like still a human person on earth. Yeah let's first thing I said to her was I am. I was so in my body. It was as if and threes achievers do this big time we float next to our bodies and we watch them play apart and that has been my life. I've been like Pete went in this room and he acted this way. Anyone in that room in the acted that way. The Real Pitas just floating somewhere else. He's a the`real this this sacred. Madison made me feel like a lead. Like an army. Ma'am like like a toy from nineteen eighteen. Yeah like a heavy like a sumo wrestler more like doing yoga when your feet or so planted in the ground. Yeah I felt my knees I felt my joints. I felt heavy in a good way. You have a motherfucker I fifty. I felt it. I was in my body and I was like that is a great topic for for your writing because I the stigma I guess makes me WanNa say I wish I didn't need drugs to do it but fuck it man. I'll take all the help I can get you know. But this is why they took it away from us and made it illegal is because it gives us insight to ourselves and it gives us wisdom and this stuff is medicine in reason why they've criminalized. It is because it enlightens us on a plane that is sacred yes and so if an so I you know I'm all for the legalisation of these things that we should be doing. More research on PSYCHEDELICS AT MARIJUANA. I've been I don't I don't mind talking about this but I have been recently diagnosed with the condition. I still have all my reproductive parts in so I still have a uterus And I have in Dimitrios tissue growing in between the lining of the uterus in. It's it's called something that I can't say Adami Osas or something like that so it causes extreme pain and so I'm on. I'm on an enzyme that lowers estrogen though actually helped the T. so there will be more gene expression but I was having incredible pain last week and my partner. Said who is a big believer in plant medicine? Cd Green and put it on me. She gave me. Cbd and put it under my tongue and then she said here take two puffs and of the VAPE CV lawn. No bad marijuana okay. And and it went away. Wow and I'm like. Why isn't this available for people? Yeah that's insane. I mean everybody listening to this. Podcast is laughing because I've cd-rom my desk this. I swear by it because the first time I smoked pot as like I love this. I just wish there was something that I could stay on earth right and still treat whatever it might be right I'm not doing an ad for it right now. So I can say anecdotally that it helps me with my anxiety and helps me with stress management and all these things that I think. I'm not supposed to say in the ads but we're just talking. Yeah and I can stay. I do say in the ADS I go. I can still watch a movie. I don't understand people that get stoned and watch a movie. I do it but I can watch the same movie the next day. And it'll be a fresh move right right right while I enjoy and love marijuana. Cbd has been such an ally for me something that you can do every day and still still manage your life. Yeah Yeah With parents and booze and the thought of being absent in my eyes for my child I stopped drinking. I stopped drinking right before he got married. But a lot of it had to do with having kids and not wanting to be glassy. Eyed Red Lipped Stereotypical Dad. Who is even last in touch with his body because he's drunk right and that's such a scary thought to me that being said marijuana even though it can take me out of the plot of Shanghai noon which is true. God can help me feel in my body and yes brutally help with with pain in a way that I think I did used to get drunk because I was in pain Now small amounts of of marijuana or whatever it might be can can solve so glad that you found that problem. Yeah Yeah I mean I take this enzyme but really what helping with the pain is not the fucking enzyme. It's plant medicine isn't it? Weird humanity is weird fucked up fucked up that they're like I mean I love terrence McCann. I wouldn't say I'm a huge difference but can ahead but him and Alan Watts and all these people they point out there like liberated people are very hard to control. This seems right up your alley. Yeah when I start getting a sense of myself who am I and how do I know? and clans marijuana suicide even LSD. Which I know isn't a plant. It's a derivative or whatever can take you by the hand and go. I'm not going to go out there. I'm going to go in. We'RE GOING TO GO IN. Yep and you come out of that so I'm on I'm on my trip. I went upstairs. I think I told the story already but I was up standard on the bathtub. Yes yeah you told it. When you're talking to Mike I got in the back Thub. Yeah so we have a bath of. It's a very small second story. It's it's it's comically small And when I went up there were never up there got in the TUB and I looked at my feet and I. My heart just was opened to my feet. I know this sounds like such a hippie drug story but they just looked so like I had cut the nails with such lake. And just get the nails to a let like. They were not trimmed lovingly. They had like calluses there man feet. They're disgusting man. Yeah Yeah I'm just looking at them and I'm like these friends. These allies carry me around. He and I went downstairs and I was like Val we gotta get pedicures. I gotta get foot massages. We have to dance. I need to rest. I just like even as I articulated. The profundity of the moment obviously is. It's trans rational. I had a moment that is beyond language where I was like. Thank you for my feet. Yeah thank you for my body. And it's we've we've found it and then we've repressed it. I understand that there are ways to abuse us in the same way you can abuse dayquil absolutely but I mean the fact that there's something your doctor probably knows about. Cbd It's not in their dispose of Bright Kloesel right now you know. I'm glad that you talked about your feet as being allies because I before this quarantine life I would go once a month and get my pedicure not to be vain or boozy but as as foot care because foot care is important. And I'm standing on my feet alive when I'm talking Or when I'm in airports I'm walking alive and when I dress shoes on it cramps my fee you know and so I go for pedicures and one of the things that I love. That you said is your feet carry you at I want. I want my feed to be in such great shape to be connected to the ground because if I'm not connected to the ground that I'm unable to move and do my work and so one of the things that I'm really missing during quarantine. Life is the pedicure because it was a. It was a time for me. You know it was an hour for me to like. Just sit back and right. Do Nothing and be cared for. It's like vows said with the dancing. Let your body be in charge for defeat. Have I know the sound so hippie? But it sounds so hippie because we're so disconnected fright reality exactly so if these ugly hanging there rolling their eyes or whatever. I'm like yeah. I understand that impulse I would roll my eyes too but I'm just starting. I really feel like I'm living in a simulation because this conversation is right in line. I know I'm part of that. I'm guiding it but like it's right in line with what I need and I think it's in line with what people need because as wearing quarantine and as you are dealing with all the things that define our reality and tell us who we are are now being taken away right. You can't even go to the office and be the big boss man like TV shows over zoom and everybody's unshaven in their PJ's or you know casual clubs in their houses. It's like all of the story is being stripped away so this is a really good opportunity for me to do this. Work to remember that you're being carried by your feet Tesla or fuck. Fuck your fancy elevator and and your assistance or whatever it may be. You are a body. Yeah moving through a mystery. Not even moving through a mystery part of a mystery. Yeah you think we're separate but we're really underwater. We are underwater. Well I think what this time is also showing us not just about being connected to a mystery is the web of interconnection and that is something we need. We need to pay attention to that. I hope I really hope this. Time is a corrective for people me too because if we don't get our shit together this time it's GonNa be worse next time. Yeah that's right. Yeah we start flirting with that. Like is this why. Rome fell right. Getting into that ancient. Like what is this on the big map the map where you see? Here's the Ice Age. And here's the plague and like let's look at the big map. Yeah I was saying how if what I mean. The birds around my house right now are insane. You talking about coyotes on the Golden Gate Bridge or waking up to something that we're so disconnected from which is the other thing you were mentioning not as our bodies but our planet and our world. Which again has just become a fucking idea. Yeah three months ago. I would have been like yeah. I'm all for the planet. I'm I'm a Liberal Democrat and all this. I want the Environment. The environment is encroaching on. You know. I'm I'm seeing it in the air. I'm hearing it in the birds and I'm hearing stories of it. The the environment always seemed like this abstract thing like yeah we gotta do it for the Amazon. It's right here right. Heard of it. Yeah part of TICO system and it would be like that's the PCP does in the ecosystem. He not Joe's so so not only. Are we a part of it but we are conscripted into? It's very soul. Yes we are in sold with the planet on my podcast. We just talked about how supremacy culture breeds climate injustice. And that the fact that we the fact that we live in a world in a in a universe of supremacy culture Is Why we have to fight all these different injustices. So I'm really hopeful you know. You've got dolphins swimming in the Venice Canal. You've got coyotes on the Golden Gate Bridge Etcetera. I'm really hopeful that we will take this to heart. Yes in really. Think seriously about our radical connectedness to one another and to the planet Because otherwise the the alternative is destruction. That's right it's really interesting to hear supremacy used in that way Obviously people think white supremacy right or male supremacy but there's just species supremacy. Ira I know because I used to be one of these people that would eat meat. I know people lead me but there's a lot of cultures that have eaten meat. That still had that symbiotic relationship yet. It wasn't just mass farming. What I'm saying is it was. Tolstoy people that. Listen to this podcast. You're probably knew I was going to say this. He says as long as you have slaughterhouses you'll have battlefield. Meaning it's building on itself. Yes the supremacy of music saying I can kill this animal because God gave me dominion over at right is what then gives me dominion over a slave over a gender that they extrapolate that I mean. That's that's their proof texting that's right. That's and that's the most compelling thing I've seen in fact when whenever I want to turn the volume up on my own Very lax veganism. It's very lax Trans Vegan. I mean I'm Beatrice word. I'm an whatever it is that I'm eating. There's host Vegan Post Megan husband whenever I if I WANNA get more Vegan. There was this Ted. I believe it was a tax so-called communism. It's a little bit hard to watch. But it's still wonderful. And she makes the point where slavery and eating of the way that we eat animals is. There's there's a relationship there so you're you're talking about being in sold with a planet what we're learning in quarantine is and we're learning it in sort of a fucked up way you get a package and you go. Are there germs on this pack? Right a really. What you're doing is a human touch this. Yeah and not just like Val said Demean. We're opening packages where Lysol and things or whatever because we're being careful with the baby and just because it's going to be careful where you're going like okay. What was touched by a person? We're doing it out of paranoia. But there's a beautiful underlying message there which is like a person yeah. Our House is filthy. We are so good. Bogart cleaner is like. He's like a friend he's he's part of the family. We Love Him Obviously we're still paying him during this. That was a no brainer. Because we care about him were also like Holy Shit. Bogart does fucking lot. Yeah valid like I think he dusts the chairs we're noticing that the chairs are dusty or you fucking dust. The chairs were that is an elevation in consciousness. It went from an idea are cleaner. Does a good job he is. We should give him a present a visceral embodied understanding of I think he's dusting the Super Nintendo that again. We're back to you only change when you have to learn when you have to and in this quarantine. There's a million lessons that I'm with you. I'm hoping that we're learning and I'm afraid that will forget. Oh I am too. I mean this country doesn't have a historical memory and so we we don't know how to be present with the now this is eh cartilage work and if we can if we can figure out how to have a historical memory and be present with the now we might be able to shift our current reality and respond in in a generative way. Yeah I don't WANNA sound super forty one but I have caught myself going like I hope the young people that are right at that rate age where they're old enough to know and they're about to be empowered culturally. They are empowered already. But they're about to be able to do certain position. Certain jobs for your vote. Whatever it might be that there. I'm starting to have that old person feeling. We're yeah I hope that they go wait a minute. We all woke up from that dream. The dream where there aren't dolphins and the canals and there aren't we all in fact. That's what I knew and now that we know that potential we can go back to that. We can start feeding each other in that way. Yeah I really WANNA know that. It took a while for Tennessee. In the south to flatten the curve My partner and I were living in Midtown. Despite the move amid town is real close to downtown. And so it's a it's where all the young people live and pedal taverns Galore and people were still on pedal taverns and my partner and I were just like with a baronet. Yeah okay we were like what in the actual fog? Why are these people out on these pedal taverns you know and And I like you. I am being a An old forty three person saying I hope that these young children will get their act together. Yeah and I mean I'm I'm thinking about the seven generations that come after me. Yeah that's right. I hope they take charge. I think they will. I don't I don't know I. I think I'm just wired to be a little bit optimistic. But unlike they're going to see and I hope they do better than we're doing we're fucking it up. My I asked my father. Tell me if this doesn't sound like a story like the way that we are stories. I asked my dad when this all started happening. Dad Are you staying in? He said? Can you picture me staying in? So what who are you? And how'd you know? Yeah Yeah So. I should've said Dad. Who Are you? And how do you know? Yeah you are telling me that you are You're being held to play the part of this man That is not in the moment that is not being receptive or adaptive that has not receiving the the new story that's being imposed on us. France saying no the old story continues so I'm using my dad as a barometer. I'm like when he changes when I get the the story that he's wearing a mask at whole foods or whatever the fuck the next thing yeah. I'll go holy Shit Yeah. The stone has been rolled away. Like right you know. I think that's the next fashion curve. It our masks. What do you mean. I think it's going to be a thing. I think we're all going to be wearing masks in the future. Yeah in the future I I mean we haven't they've been doing it for it. Seems like decades in places like Japan Korea. Yeah we've just been like. Yeah I always used to see a a a person in East Asian person on an airplane wearing a mask and as a Westerner I was always like you. Don't WanNA breathe my air right. You my is not good enough for you. And they're like right and also I don't want you breathing my air right. It never even occurred to me the Damascus for the person wearing it that they might be sick. I was always like you won't breathe good old fashioned red white and blue. Even that was a commodity. Even right was a threat. Right you'll come and you'll eat our meats and you'll watch our ballgames but you won't breathe our air. That is a shift. Yeah Yep I think you might be right. I mean we're going to have Patagonia. I know that's not even my joke but I've seen it online. We're going to have Patagonia face man right north face face Ma. Yeah Totally Gab. Yeah it's you know that question that I started asking myself in twenty fifteen. Who are you and how do you know is a modified question from Thomas Aquinas? Thomas Acquaintance asked this question in in his writing. Who's got and how do we know? And so I. I knew that that that was a question of the tradition and I wanted to ask that question. Who Am I? How do I know because I wanted to fit into a larger story than just myself? And if there's anything that I WANNA say is it is this. We are larger than ourselves. We this time of quarantine. Life is exposing the web of connection that we are collectively together in this thing called Corona virus. That's right and we have a chance to shift culture global culture to culture. We're seeing it again in paranoia. We go well. We're more at risk than ever because of international travel. It's like it's also becoming awake to the idea that we're all on one mother fucking right you were saying bad should inform your politics. Yeah isn't yet saying that. We cut down our trees our lungs. Yeah a create our air. We're cutting off our body to make our our our butts feel a little bit better. I don't even know what we're doing. But the interconnectivity that this is showing us this is this is this is mysticism Mrs Christianity. This is everything. The suffering is where the juices. Yeah and and I want to relieve that suffering and I want to help and my heart goes out to people that have this disease and the first responders in the medical medical workers autumn -solutely and I'm hopeful if history is an indication that these times tend to you only change when you have to what we're seeing you only so when we see my dad change. I'll let you know like please do. Yeah Yeah yeah absolutely. We've talked a lot about spirituality. I'd love to give you an opportunity with everybody on this show by the way. I'm going to send you some. Cbd great thanks. I'll I'll send you a gift pack. It's Charlotte's Web. Their sponsor of the show if people are curious about it. Cw DOT com slash weird and the Promo Code for ten percent office. Keep it crispy. Nineteen I swear by. I mean I'm I'm I haven't had any today but I'm looking forward to it That sounds like it's a drug to just because I know it's good for me and it makes me feel well. I'm looking forward to. Yeah I'm gonNA please email me your address and we'll send you a nice care. Pack Cake Great. Thanks for all its web so anyway everybody gets a shot. We sort of been talking about it. I feel like I have a pretty good At least a cursory understanding of of your beliefs what do you. What do you make of reality? What is what is your story now. It sounds like you were agnostic. You still identify that way. I mean I think I mean so. Here's the deal Emma use some big words here but I'll I'll explain them after I used them. I don't think that we have the epistemological capacity to know whether or not there's a god and what I mean by that is our brains are so finite and this concept of Guide and and who got is is so beyond our capacity to know that the most honest response theologically is to be agnostic into say. I just don't know but I do love the stories of Jesus and I think that there's an ethic there that we should be following as I think. There are stories in the major and minor spiritual traditions that that are also enlightened that that we can learn from I think there are many paths. I think that the the the goal is to become one with reality to become one with what is and that is both a transcendent an imminent process. Sometimes we become one when we were having sex with our partner. Sometimes we become one when we take LSD that there is a process of becoming one that is. We are always on the cusp of becoming one. What do I believe about reality? We live in a multi verse and there is more to this than we can. Even imagine and imagination is the best thing we have on our sides. Asthma Academic Partner Nicky. Young says we need to continue to imagine what is because that will bring about the kind of change we want to see in the world. I love that. I know you've heard these before. Been case to listeners. Have an Einstein saying imagination is more important than knowledge? Yeah sign also saying a problem cannot be solved with the same level of consciousness that stop. That started the problem. Yeah I love so. These are very rational people that keep nudging uh-huh and hinting us towards a more expansive. I Ritchie were says a panoramic which is really i. I love just walking around trying to look with a panoramic gays which is my understanding of contemporary prayer. At least part of it is looking at reality instead of going. There is a blue flower. You Go. There's a swath of something that is that I'm part of that. I don't understand yeah I would just talking about that That fate the opposite of faith endowed. The opposite of faith is certitude. That's a ritchie roar thing. A LOT OF PEOPLE OF FAITH. That faith is certainty. But he's saying he sort of right in line with you I don't I know he doesn't identify as an agnostic. But he's saying the only position is to say. I don't know yeah process. A faith is finding an experiential love a oneness that you experience that you can't no but that you can become yeah certainly temporarily with people like Christ were seeing people that became it Permanently or just were it yet other stories of that. But it's beyond the brain. Einstein is pointing US THERE. Yeah mystics pointing. So I'm right there with U. Penn Gillette. I say this a million times. I guess it's a point of pride. He's a very brilliant atheist. We agree on everything. Yeah except language He's the only one that goes like we don't know it could be an old man in the sky. We don't know I'm like that's what I consider. Faith that living in the tension is and the holding together of opposites. Yeah I think it's the most faithful orientation that I can have as a theologian is to say. I don't know brilliant Eilon and to also show up When I preach or when I disagree church and to also communicate the same level of faithfulness of I duNNo. It's interesting. Are you saying that you commit to things in your unknowing in hopes not hopes that sounds wish fulfilment e but let me say what I do? I do certain things. Meditation said this the Science Mike. Because it's a chance for me to get out of the way so whatever it is it's at work. Something unknown is doing something we know. Not what if that can get a chance to get at me if I can shut off my brain? Meditating is is a way to sort of let the mystery whisked me away. Yeah absolutely. Yeah so you're doing things you do go to church. I do go to church. I go to Grace Point Church here in Nashville of I mean I go to Youtube. Search now right. Yeah Yeah my partner and I we go to grace point What I'm in town I mean I. I'm on the road a lot and so when I'm in town will go to grace point and I. I participate in the community and I read their emails. And the pastor is a dear friend of mine and I love hearing Josh. Scott Preach and in my showing up is part of my commitment to the unfolding mystery of what is participating in the installment of this world. I love that including everything. Yeah having having a big enough table bigger doubt and even you disbelieve. I'm not saying yours Robin. I'm just saying yeah has a seat at the table absolutely and your emotions and your mood and your reluctance. Yep Can all sit down and experience like that. It's called grace point because the more that I get into this and Richie Rich Richard. Roy is helping me get back. That was never the goal. Get back into Enjoying Christianity again. But he he's like God is mercy. God's grace God is mystery and that is that is always something that anybody can get into. Which by the way is why they call it good news and turned it into bed. Yeah I mean I mean I was having this conversation with Josh. We get together a couple times a month or used to for a Burger and beer and we always try to figure out how we can collaborate when I so. Josh is a pastor at grace point and you know Josh and I were talking and he and I both were like leaving Christianity. Leaving it you know and let's do something different but but we both individually have found ourselves leaning more into Christianity in a productive in generative way because we believe. There's something there that that is worth pursuing. And so in as much as I can I try to lean into the tradition and critique it from the inside and out in use every bit of analysis but I think there's something there to be had and if we can turn it back into good news it will create conditions for you and I have biscuits and gravy at my table next time. That's right which is very practical. Yeah which is back outside of ideology of love an inside of the present exactly. It's using something. That is anybody that I would respect in. Religion would say that it is not perfect. No but it's sort of what we have right right. Richey makes us great point where he's like he's like the reason. I stick with religion and he always believe it or not. I'm still a priest. He's still in good standing. He's like is because like psychology isn't enough we need something that that shoves us off the edge to mystery. By the way they're they're plenty of nonreligious people listening that find wonder and find marvel and find aw and find infinity and you don't need me to say this but for what it's worth that's just as good for me. I keep coming back like you. I keep coming back to these things and finding value and I will say in as often as I leave it I come back to it but Robin I know you know this for Fuck Sake your theologian but and I'm a comedian. But I- Ev Christ tells three parables of something lost and returning there's a coined there's a the prodigal son which he says should be called the loving father father is right the headliner of that story. And there's a third one. It doesn't matter what it is but it's something that's lost that's gain. This is what was never explained to me because you probably shouldn't explain it to teenagers. Maybe that losing it is part of it. You're supposed to. I think the other one does she. Bright the shepherd loses the sheep believing the ninety nine. Yeah right so it's right in front of our faces you have Christ breaking Sabbath you have Christ continually telling people you have Paul which I know. Is You know policy. Sort of a dicey thing. But he keeps saying the law won't save you and all this dog race. It's all love like you're doing it wrong. And yet we took all of that and we turned it into something that was like You better be good boy girl you better fall in line and by the way we're back at our capitalistic patriarchal yeah water. Yeah the an achiever. Yeah my family. We've he has such a hard time with losers with people who don't make who don't produce right. It's been really challenging for me to go like you are hard on people who don't make money who don't have famer donor value talent. Fuck you pete. I'm talking about part of me. Yeah Yeah Yeah. I want him to have less real estate at the table. He can still sit at the table. Yeah sure in steer in the car. What are you going to see him says we? We've turned the story of mystery and goodness and truth into empire religion And it's toxic. It's killing people and it's what's created supremacy culture. That's right I isn't that oh go ahead. I'm just I'm just I just WANNA wonder with you and if we can if we can return it to the good news that it was you know. I'm feeling a strong feeling that we need a bonfire and build out. Yes defeat and something. That's not too heavy. Your partner in vow can lead the dance. Say Yeah Yeah you and I can do a talk. Yeah where we don't where we talk about how we don't know right because there's there's just too much facebook posting and not enough dirty feet. Yeah and and that's what we're craving a yearly thing Pete. The go here of my work is helping. People get their hands dirty with their own stories with the earth with other people and so listen man. You're welcome at my table for biscuits and gravy anytime. I WANNA do it. Not just because we're in quarantine. This sounds like something we need to do for here. Yeah it's so great talking to you and again i. I didn't know anything about you but I was like I love and I hope you find comfort in this too. It's just like we're the same. Yeah this isn't a conversation as I think the script says. Oh he's talking to the byner. Non Binary Queer Theologian. We should talk about that. This is the same fucking story. Yeah in different swirls different waves and not even dividends the same fucking ocean. It's slow where the way I think about it is. We are becoming one with one. Another by crossing our dialects SA- same language DISA- different dialect. That's right and isn't it? Funny that there's value if they're so talk about one of the values of religion to know that. I can talk to you and would probably know who eckerd totally. Is that we know. Yeah the story of the parables. Whatever might be. Maybe that's just the ground that are feed get dirty on. Yeah maybe that's the biscuits the intellectual biscuits grain and there's some value right there absolutely absolutely. That's always been my sports. I don't really know anything about the Red Sox but I can tell you that if Asians is between Philippians and my my my partners from Boston and so I get corrected. A lot about the northeast and whatnot in an how the Red Sox rain so I know much about sports either. I've always said on this five guests that the South and Boston have a lot in common. Just because there's so many different kinds of people yeah you England is so small. Boston is so small. I don't get me started. People are always like Oh. We're packed. red sox were also MIT. And we're also Harvard for Fuck Sake right and there's evangelical and there's fundamentalists and there's A. There's a huge queer. I went to school in Cambridge Jens to my teachers were were queer. Yeah like there's everything happening and I think there's something but there's also this intense cultural identity. I'm yeah I'm a combustion. What does that even mean? Great are you and how do you know? What does that mean right? 'cause I'm from Boston and I couldn't tell you one person to play on the Red Sox. I'm still from Boston right right right right. You're from the south. Yeah and that is as beautiful. Yeah well we. We've gotten heady I. I don't think I have to tell you that I've enjoyed this conversation immensely I always end because we do get a little bit deep with this question. And don't feel pressure. Sometimes people feel pressure. Can you remember a time that you laughed really really hard? Maybe the hardest in your life you know when my partner talks in a southern accent. So she's so she's from Boston. Okay and she has Kentucky accent and it's it's everything that's great. It's everything it's all you need val and I. There's no way to capture it on film or documentary because it only exists in those very intimate quiet moment right but the amount of she'll be changing. Leila's diapers something and I'll just take it out and do a silly dance and do it for seven minutes because I'm waiting for a deter around. That is the joy of partner show for me to have that that language and that younger so I understand exactly what you're saying you ever want do a Boston accent. Back at her Jason Man's Zukas. Even though I'm from Boston he helped me get in touch. It's the word burglar and smuggler it's burglar and smuggler. Not Pack the car you say. Are you a drug smuggler? I don't think so. I don't think I could do practice in the quiet moments Robin thank you so much. Is there anything? What's the name of your podcast? Let's plug that vacuous theology. Podcast people please check that out. I feel like we're going to talk again. Yeah Pete you're GONNA come over and have biscuits and gravy. I can't wait and val. What's your partners and Aaron and Valor? GonNa we're GonNa our stiff moving a rhythmic. We're GONNA move. I recommend the song. Your so gangsta by chromium that really gets people moving Thank you so much thank speed. This was great. You've really created a space of love in my heart today and I hope you feel. It's you and I so much love to you. I appreciate it love to you to change the world. That's right that's right homework. Be Damned at something real and something special right. Would you say? Well we have the guests. I think you know 'cause you listen to science. Mike would you say keep it Christi? Italian gamma keep it real crispy. Keep it southern Fried crispy new restaurant that is it. Keep it hot and crispy. I love that. Thank you so much route thank you. We'll talk again all right bye bye. Are we good Tony? Yes sir. Already steph awesome. Yeah that was great. Thanks so much. Yeah my pleasure. That was that really fed made a day. And you know and I'm serious. Man Next time here Nashville will have you over for for dinner meal of some sort of that. And it's weird to think that we're like three tweets away from getting a group together in a in a park with a grill and listen I use. I think I think you're onto something. I think that I mean whenever we can get back to whatever the future looks like. We can get back to the future. That's it might be worth thinking about something I were craving it and that's made me realize how much I need it. Yeah and let's do that so so keep you posted and let me know when you're in L. A. And I will email me your address and I'll send you a Charlotte's web right okay. Great Thank You. Stated crispy maybe.