20 Episode results for "Heckman"

Episode 150  Part 3: The Compounding Impact of Marketing to Women with Podcasts: How to Maximize Your ROI Featuring Adri Miller-Heckman

Top Advisor Marketing Podcast

40:59 min | 2 years ago

Episode 150 Part 3: The Compounding Impact of Marketing to Women with Podcasts: How to Maximize Your ROI Featuring Adri Miller-Heckman

"Welcome to top advisor marketing where you will learn how to become a prolific online influencers attract more ideal clients and grow your practice. Wrought to you by top advisor podcasting a done for you podcasting solution. Bill just for trusted advisers, and now nor co hosts top advisor marketing Turk glow and met Halloran. Hello and welcome to the third part of our three part series with address Heckman we have gone over a bunch of different things. So so one of the big things that we talked about was the overall idea of what really branding is. And how you use it. And then address actually interviewed me which was a weird experience for me because I'm not usually side of the microphone about how to execute. But today were squarely back in address corner, which we're gonna talk right now about marketing and bringing things to market, and as we were preparing for this. We were just talking about the the the need to be willing to take risks in knowing that some of your marketing not gonna work one hundred percent. But if you don't get up to the plate, you're never gonna have a chance to hit a home run. So Adra Miller Heckman once again, she's the founder affects advisers, please make sure you connect with her on social media and make sure you connect with her on her website sign up for her stuff. She has Craig conference calls. She's great webinars Edry welcome back to the show. Thank you all his love to be here. All right. Let's talk about how do you even define it? Why don't we start? It with an operational definition of how we're gonna explain today. Technical for me, an author oration. I think if I were to give it three key points. Let's say that. Okay. One of the key points today as what are the benefits, and they are so beyond what you think they are multi levels of benefits of creating a podcast in the world women. Second is where do you need to start? Right. One of the steps you need to take and three you've got to make this defining moment. And it is about taking a rest, but we're going to show you that the risks are not infant does that make sex peak. I'm super excited about today already. So yet, let's dive right in. Let's talk about the benefits and all of the different kinds of benefits. That's that's really I'm super interested in where he brain is on that. Well, you know, most advises in the old days, right? We used to do a remember. There was an adviser my office, and he went host Shinar about money manager or a mutual fund. He have thirty five butts in the seat were buying units and Polly's pies for breakfast in measured the results by how many how many accounts they opened and share soul done. So it was the follow up was okay. But that was immediate results and while in our society now we like immediate results right at the internet and everything else. But in marketing the results are almost compounding you will get benefits today. You will get business today. But it's the long-term consistency that opens this funnel and eventually on your business comes from referrals. And so it's the consistency of doing these types of thin, and it could be podcasting. It could be webinars it could be a conference call. It could be a pay to play event. It could be a branding event. I don't care, but whatever you do as you build. This senior focus on women, you're really creating a compound affects your business. So that in a few years, you don't need to go out and seek out clients. They're coming to you. Are. Oh, I is something I hear adn ause. Ian, right. So the return on my marketing investment, in fact, Adra just had a sales call with this guy today. And he said to me Matt how do I measure success? And it's. There are so many things that aren't necessarily measurable address doing this for a long time. How do you get over that? How do you convince people that the focus solely on our Y is not the always the best way to to see if your marketings working, you know? Know as the industry progressives. And as we're moving away from prospecting selling enclosing to building relationships inspiring, motivating, the what you would consider the sales process is a little bit longer because very relationship based not transactional base. It's not based upon a product. And so your real focus even with the coaching. I do what happens is is soon as the adviser has developed their story. Their this compelling message, and it's very extensive compelling message. And it's built around who they are. And they start sharing it. They're going to mmediately get more attention than ever before it may speed up the process the sales funnel because you're much more clear about what you offer in your value. And your value has nothing to do. Do with the products deserve says, the firm, it has nothing to your experience, those commodities, and so you need to be reaching out to people in a variety of ways and over time you start to say, wow, I find this. There's this flow of new business coming in. And well, it happens to be primarily women with few men in there who mentioned my website. So it's not as crystal clear in linear. But I think if you have to do an ROI if you're that kind of person where you need to quantify this investment, first of all if it's not fun. It's not gonna happen. Don't do it. Right. If it doesn't charge you it because then your eliminating a powerful component in. In this marketing. And when you love it, and you do it, and it's fun. You will get the maximum amount of benefits to it. But there was a really really fabulous company some advisers solicited Bharti in southern California. And they call me his word independent lane about one hundred million under management, and it was two men and woman exit. Okay, you're going independent, and you're gonna be competing with all the Merrill, Lynch all the mortgage Stanley all Smith party, and then all the independent advisors. So what is it that you can do to launch this move and really build a brain for yourself? And while they were open, but somewhat resistance, these resistant. They started to utilize my savvy women this on purpose, similar, and they had. Twelve women in the road every month. Chevy women invest on purpose, and they kept doing it. And then when they had a new adviser come in. It was forty years old. He never been in the business, and it was his time to start going out into the field. And I this is what I wanted to do. I just want him to focus on the women's market. I don't want him to go to a center talk about his wealth management. But not. And next thing. You know, they start to recognize and remember they're in it about seventy percent at this point. All of a sudden, they go this is working look at the flow of of clients coming in. So at that point, they go all in and they start radio show called savvy up and now they're doing webinars. And now, they're this has become their primary source with they looked at the first year and said, well, I can't measure a return on my assets. I have no idea with all these new accounts are coming from this marketing or not you don't know you can start to ask. How did you hear about us? But you have to watch the flow and the pattern and how many new accounts in how many assets do you really need to bring in to cover the expense of this marketing tool. And that's very important thing. So that you can say, okay, I just need one million dollar count to cover the expense. Those are my initial fees. But marketing should be multi-tiered. Especially this day and age. You need to be on social media. You need to have a podcast you need to have a physical event. Right. You need to be. He may be hosting twenty ten conference calls. Twenty minutes to teach in ten minutes to talk. And so what happens is when you're using a multitude of modems couple things are happening here. One. And this is so important, and you don't realize it, but talk is cheap. And when you meet somebody or a center was using focus on women put up or shut up right because they want to see that. You do what you say you do. So putting all of these activities in a marketable hellinger of vengeance is probably the most valuable marketing tool you will ever ever. Have you don't need a bridge. Sure. You don't need a business card you need a marketing calendar and every quarter on that calendar. What I love about podcasting is that you don't have to host events to have a marketing calendar now. You're doing these podcasts and on your calendar. It's you know, to putt casts a month. Top adviser provides to podcasts. And now, I've got six podcasts listed on this calendar card that looks awesome is really designed dwell in. This is what you end up people wing meet them, and they don't throw it away. If I were to do any mailers today, I would mail my calendar event card because people will hold up they'll pin it up on their bulletin board. They'll share with people because this is something they might be able to participate in. So. Doing these types of events. You have to understand the concept of marketing a win Nike came up. You know, if I ask you this log in for Nike. What is it? Matt. Everybody knows it. Do you think everybody knew at Ryan ways? Do you think it drew business? Immediately know what happens is when financial advisers don't get that idiot oral a return on investment. They stop. Biggest biggest mistake ever. You will never gain traction momentum. It's like telling your client about the seven percent, compounding return. And when they don't get it in the first year investing. They stop. It's the same on Sept. So instead of thinking of these Daniels as transactional, you need to think of as a com- pounding return. Compounding return. So the other thing I like about this is every time you incorporate in new marketing tool. You get along. So let's just say I started this year the year of the woman, and I started in January two thousand nineteen launching. My new message might brand like focus. Here's why do this. Here's my story. Bull and advisors. Get so many responses to these emails more so than ever before then three or six months later. I say we're having such a great time here. We're launching a podcast to help women become more confident engaged their financial affairs. Read the words. Boom, another great positive thing. The focus on. Maybe six months later. We're launching our savvy women invest on purpose workshop this combined with our podcasts will give you everything you need as woman to take back control of your lights. So you're always getting something to launch. An think. The other benefits, and you can talk more about this. Matt. The process of creating a podcast one of the greatest benefits is the sale is. Now, I'm going to say CO is in. We think of sue is as attorneys divorce attorneys estate planning CPA's people that are building a business that have clientele. But you can also gives you a reason to reach out to highly affluent women in your community who you don't know. They don't know who the heck you are. But you're going to open that door because you'd like to be to them on a podcast to empower women, and you go in you, meet with this woman who is very wealthy. Very successful. And you share with her? You know, my, you know, the focus of my business is empowering women. And I realized that I can't work with every woman. Most of my clients have a million dollars or more investable essence. But my podcasts are my way of helping every woman, and I would love to feature you as a guest now in that one little conversation. I know you heard it all. I'm sitting here with this huge smile on my face, Andrew because I mean, you just loaded up that statement with so many powerful words that was freaking awesome. So yeah. And you have just said, I work with women who have millions, so wink, wink, I get ill, and I know your club. But I am so committed to women that I do these other things for them. And so now, you totally interested her in what you do. I promise you she's going to want to revert you to other women. And that's another question. You're gonna have what other women, you know, that you associate with the could be powerful guests that are truly committed to powering women boom now you've got referral source. I love it's you're making that too if everybody just paused rewound this and listen to the words that and how Adra position this from a networking perspective. Or, you know, however, you wanna look really truly it's so powerful when it comes to networking you are making that person feel so special. I want to get back to another thing that you can hear an address voice. And and if you don't have this in your practice, then you truly need to hire somebody to help you figure this out you have to find that thing that really makes you excited and passionate. If your passion is to truly help women gain more control over their finances at in their life, empower women anything along those lines. If if you that's not coming from your heart. If that's only coming from your head. You're gonna get eaten alive and the other thing too. So that guests so we're gonna use that scenario. So that gas comes on the podcast one of the most. Important things for you to do or maybe you have them on a panel. Or maybe you have them speak at one of your events, you need to make sure that that guest has a great time is highly highlighted and leaves with something whether that's applause, whether that's a thank you. Whether they get to pitch their products and services, whatever that is if you're able to satisfy those things you are hitting literally on all cylinders, and you're gonna blow pastor competition. What do you think entry? There's so many thoughts. Right. So so I love what you said. And and attention thing whenever one of my clients, I got a great referral today. One point two million. I sit so who gave the two oh, Joe this attorney. So what did you do for Joel's? I sent him. Thank you card. We only really how much would you pay to get a highly? Qualified. Lead. What would you pay and said my God, son them something? So what I'm thinking is after he invite this woman and think about this if she's really good. She's really good on the podcast. You're gonna say it. Oh, what why don't we do joint event? And let's do an impairment event and have us both speak. Because now, you know, she's good. And if she's in a think of it as in a political position, boy, she's got a social media allowing. And she's gonna wanna post that link that recording on that social media following. There are so many legs to that one transaction or that was in duck Shen, we're you get to offer her upper ity to get a recording to be on a podcast show women. She cares. And then I would send her if it's a relationship you really wanna nurture I would follow up the podcast with. Thank you. And. You know, you might do you just do a fabulous box Godiva chocolates goes to our office that she's going to share with everybody in the office. Where did you get chocolate? Oh, I got it from address. She this podcast women. Guess what is now marketing? Yup. Or even have fun and some like, a maybe a box of custom-made cookies in the forum of women's shoe, high heeled shoe, and it goes to her office and said thank you for stepping up and empowering women. We had a we had a guest on a little while ago in one of these stories came out until it very very quickly. So there's a gentleman his name is Joe polish. He's a partner with Dan Sullivan. He runs this amazing marketing company, and he he takes that even farther and what he does is before they even meet he will talk to that powerful woman's right hand person. And just find out a little bit about them. Right. So let's say she's a an avid kayaker. Right. And so then what he will do is he'll go online, and he will find what is the latest greatest kayaking product, and he'll freakin by it. And so after the podcast is done or after the joint, speaking of aunt, or whatever he sends it to her say. So here's here's the best thing every time. She gets in the kayak. She's gonna think about them, right? When you're talking about legs Edry in the fact that this is not linear there this consensus circle upon circle upon circle that is so so powerful. And I love that you said in this is so true that they are going to share this with their social media network, and you really do it. Well, you'll do what I done with you. Because this is the first time you've been on the podcast. You are so flipping good. I had such a good time with you. We had fun. I said address to have you back. So I'm always going to have a powerful reason to reconnect with that powerful person because they've already agreed to come back on the show or or the speaking about I don't necessarily mean that podcasting is to be on end all, but maybe it's a speaking event, and you had such a great time. And that's when you say I'd love to do this again sometime and she says, yes, ding, ding, ding, ding, ding. Now, you're not. Coming across his pussy person. You're coming across his hate. Let's do this. Again, we had a great time. So I really think you have to look at the reason podcasting, right? It's it's I tell financial advisors unique two-thirds to build a good business. Uneo really powerful clear message which most don't have and you need a database you need the hardest. Biggest challenges for those new advisers that are young they have no lates they have no database to work from this helped to build the database. Not only is it a great marketing. Not only argue validating your commitment to women it creating more consistency. You're doing this. Every twice a month on a consistent basis. Your marketing it consistently. Think about podcasting over two years. How many leads will you build simply by giving. You a reason to reach out to high level influencers people on boards of charitable organizations. Politicians? Holy cow. What did I never even thought about that? Before what, you know, the hardest thing financial advisors committee. I know they have to call clients. But then like, okay, what am I gonna talk to him about? Well, just like you talked about the Dan Sullivan idea. Right. There are two ways to go out this business one is high level high high catering. And then there is while them with consistency. So for example, if I in mind business, I had a process if I got a million dollar referral. I would those days than hundred dollar bucks Godiva, the fifty dollar bucks for the five hundred thousand dollars count. Whatever I had it all set up easy in leg credential didn't eat them. But imminent could end ready to go. I needed a system where I didn't have to make a decision, and it still had an impact. So what you want? I is you can customize it. But unless you're really shooting for extremely my profile that process may not be the most efficient use of your time. Or money. So you want both processes, and I got I wouldn't into this. What was I saying? I think you were just reinforcing the idea of the multiple touches. I like the fact that you just brought that up is being very systematized because you know, the one off things what's going to kill your team. It's going to drive them. Crazy. If you're you know, changing it up all of the time. Okay. I have to ask you the most important question of this three part webinar series our pride casting series, which is. How do you get people to take action? That's something. I've struggled with so much when I was a coach and a consultant, you know, people would come up with these ideas or or they wouldn't do what you talked about. Which is following through understanding that every good marketing plan takes twelve to eighteen months to really start getting massive traction. And if you stick with it than it is truly going to be the next great thing. How do you get our listeners to get off their chair and take action to either hire you use your savvy women invest on purpose, use your branding and marketing techniques or get them to sign up to do podcasts. Whether that's with us or not. But just to take action helped me help our audience make this the greatest year they've ever had. Okay. So so I'm sitting right? Let me write this down. If you have fought. About doing it putt cast three times thing you need to do it. Because what was it you said earlier met about if you don't do it? If you don't owe day delay as a day of decay. You got it, right. Part of being an entrepreneur is taking action, and it's often in the Kolbe scores. The quickstart I'm very high quick start nine out of ten yet me too. Okay. So I think you'll find the most successful entrepreneurs are quickstart. We have a vision, and we act now, I have very strong personal believe that every path. I go down whether it works for doesn't it will eventually fizzle. No matter what you choose. And then you've gotta we Volve, but every repacked takes me to a new pet. So when I was. Honey, buzzard I was hosting some advanced somewhere bomb. All right. So I cancelled them couple years ago. I came back from surgery launched a whole new light workshop, it was a lot of work, and I realize. To cancel it. No big deal. We get so worried about how it's going to appear. No, you get out. There may commitment. A new project one year commit to it one year. Give it time to really build legs. But make a damn commitment. You don't wanna be? I think I shared on the less coat. Did I tell you about the dippers waiters divers, absolutely? Don't be Dipper. You just touching your telling the water, you just becoming you know, you're on the fringes all the time. Now, those type of people are fine. But they're never really going to lead the pack. It's the way to the way the difference between the waiters and the divers were diverse. We're dyers. Yes, ma'am, we go. This is what I'm gonna commit to. I am all in. I am all in. And we're just gonna go to the top of Clifton go. We're going for it. The waiters may wanna go for it. They wanna get in. But they need a step by step. They need more structure. And that's where using companies like you like me, we do it for you it. We don't do it for you to a lot for them. But you're going to do this don't try and do it alone. That is not your strength. Your strength is building relationships or the few that are really into the portfolio management building portfolios. But for most of you, the part of this business you enjoy is the interaction it's the interaction. And so two things you must have that thought that go hand in hand. In need to have a message. And you need somebody to help you get to that message. And I will tell you that. The message is that we create last ten years, and it's so consistent. And once you have a message, you understand your real purpose in your focusing more direction. You've got more clarity. You know? Yes. This is the path initate, then you go to top advisor to your podcast, and they will step you through that process. The biggest through. Yeah. The biggest feedback that we've gotten when we first started Adra was we didn't have the process, and I love your process. So I do want to make sure that people understand that Adra has been a successful financial advisor. She is going to show the waiters out there that that there is a step by step process to market to women successfully and not just market to women successfully but make a huge change in your practice. If you in your belly feel so strongly advocate even tell you how many times I've worked with advisors. Matt my favorite people to work with our widows, really. So what do you do to market to widows? What do you do to make sure that your message is going to be entirely Copacetic with that target market or divorce as and I don't know why it's so rewarding. I'm like because it's part of who you are if you're listening to these podcasts, and if you've ever paid any attention to anything address ever written, and if it resonates with you you. Have to you can Wade in that's fine. But the important thing is you've got to get into the dam water. Well, and they are to you really have to make commitment. Okay. I don't commit I'm gonna build. My message committed. I'm going to pick up the strategy. Maybe it's events. Maybe it's my savvy seminar. Maybe it's podcasting pick. And work and work at and, you know, it was interesting what you said, I just started coaching woman from Canada, and she works for one of the top firms up there, and we had our strategy college. He said, so I was thinking about this. I went to divorce I really wanna work with divorce. But I also like these women in business in so, okay, great. That's a target market that is not a tribal market. So I said, we'll let me ask you something. She shared with me at winner friends are going through divorce. And she said, I'll say I see what do you say your friends, and she says, I tell them to get their shit together. To get it together. I should okay. Why? Because you have to take ownership in your life. Okay. And how do you do that? You have to be driven committed. You have to make time for yourself yet to make yourself a priority in all. I said do realize that you just defined tribal market. Women who are driven to be the best. They can be it doesn't matter if they're going through divorce, but she could not work with victim. She couldn't. She wants women who want to get their shit together. Right. Who wants to get their ducks in a row and that immediately spelled out where she needs to go one. And I said, okay. So if you think I need to get my act together, what are the four steps I should do to you. Gotta make yourself first priority right now. Then what you gotta get organized. Then what she said this done this my. Oh my God. That is her tribal market. So everybody has a tribal market. And when you can tap into that, it's like hitting liquid gold liquid gold and energy giving to right? That's that's the other thing that I absolutely love guy. You can hear it in entries voice right there. I mean, just you have to find that thing about your career that floats your boat to the point of getting that level of excited. And it's so funny because on these coaching calls when I'm getting to know them here. And then I have to question the kinda get loud. And I said did you hear your voice that is such an indicator? So if I go back to I think we talked about this on Lasco belief plus a motion create passion impression moves mountains. And so whether you're even good portfolio manager, whether you're even I was allow Zeke financial advisor, but I got tons of clients because they knew do my best to take care of them. Thank God Smith, boarding at all the portfolio managers. But when you have a message that is so amazingly powerful and on then tick, you cannot help but believe it, you cannot hope but Sharon with the motion which turns into passion, which dramatically accelerates the relationship process. And now, you take that message and you put it at the beginning of your podcast. You put it in front of everything. Go ahead. You put it in front of everything we thing. I talked about how Oprah on her podcast says. The best thing you can give yourself this time time to reflect and what what was yours. The tool. When you do your intro. It's so automatic, you don't even know. Oh my God. Oh, yeah. Yeah. I I mean, it is I don't even really even think about it anymore. But yeah, I mean, it's it's it's setting all of the appropriate expectations. So that people can be successful. And thing about this. When you're using the same message, and certainly you're storing your compelling messaging value statement, they all say the same thing, but a little bit different style. You brain is so relieved. Because every time you meet somebody. You're not trying to recreate who you are just fit them. That's exhausting. It's exhausting. It's never will done. And so when you go out there and say. I focused on power women to gain more control over their financial really when you mean by that will most of my clients are smart driven women. Blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. There's floor Mula. There is a formula that is populated with you your personality in your words. And that's what you need. Average, what can people do to engage you? What what is the best way for them to reach out? Let's talk a little bit about some of the the services that you offer. So that we can wrap up today's podcast. You know, the best thing to do is go to WWW dot fem. X adviser dot com. Go to the coaching page. Look around everything we do is designed to help financial advisers attract, retain, engage women more effectively that can be the wool source of your focus. Add a tool like the podcasting your innovate on fire. So go to that page schedule a strategy session with me, I don't know if I can help you, and I don't know if it's time in the place radio. But if we talk for thirty minutes, and I learn a little bit about you. I can direct you to the right path for you. Adra? Thank you so much for all of your thought leadership and wisdom on these last three podcasts. We absolutely think what you do is fantastic. You are a friend and somebody who we just have so much respect for atop adviser marketing. So thank you for this miniseries. Thank you that. If you have been listening to this, and if you follow address writing, and if you've really paid any attention to focusing on women as your market, what has been found over and over again is if you change the way that you communicate to make it more receptive and make it more tailored toward focusing on women. You're going to find out that you're going to deepen your relationships with your mayo clients too because it is communication techniques. Powerful communication techniques that worked so. Well, and Adra Heckman is the person who can help you create that message create. Everything surrounding that message. So that you can go out into the world and take it over. So if you have not subscribe to the podcast, make sure you click that's up grab now button below that way. Every time we come out with a new one of these directly on you're listening device. And please take a moment to give us a quick rating and review that will help us out a whole bunch and for everybody at fem exit. Visor Edry Miller Heckman this is Matt how're and guess what? We'll see on the other side of the Mike very soon. Are you ready to change the way you communicate with your clients? Are you tired of being the best kept secret in your area? Learn how to become a prolific online influencers attract more ideal clients and grow your business. Contact us today and see what the power podcast and can do for your business. Could on the contact us link on our website at top advisor, marketing dot com and set up a call to learn more follow us on Lincoln Facebook for more updates information. This was brought to you by iris dot XYZ, a platform, helping financial professionals become better in business and life through new media and new voices, visit them and learn more at iris dot XYZ.

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4pm Newscast

Houston Public Media Local Newscasts

02:20 min | 2 months ago

4pm Newscast

"It's considered the evictions moratorium in the spring. The dow was up fifteen points this is. Npr live from news. Eddie eight seven in houston ongoing. Water harris county attorney christian menefee says a state district. Judge has granted a temporary restraining order that prevents the state from enforcing the governor's directive prohibiting mask mandates harris county has joined a growing list of jurisdictions around the state that are challenging governor. Abbot menefee sensible and so orders signed. It will stay in place until harris county gets a hearing for a temporary injunction cova delta variant doesn't appear to be stopping a lot of big events from coming back to houston but news eddie. Eight seven flooring and martin says organizers still expect an impact on convention business. Houston i the organization. In charge of conventions and other large meetings says it's hosting forty-three events with at least a thousand attendees here that includes major conventions like the offshore technology conference the nra convention in the world petroleum congress but houston i ceo. Michael heckman says the delta varian is likely going to subdue attendance. It will have an impact on the number of leisure visitors to will have in the city We don't think it will be a catastrophic impact but it will be an impact. There will be until this gets back under control. Heckman says houston. I won't impose any attendance restrictions but it'll continue its strict cleaning and social distancing protocol standard adopted last year he expects to convention business to return to pre pandemic levels in twenty twenty two. I'm florida and martin in houston. There's growing opposition in houston's east end t. p. c. groups plans to expand its chemical plant east and resident. Susan rodgers spoke at a public hearing last night. Off of expansion is too high in our community. We are subject to far many hazards. And i think we've all had enough neighbors also brought up the twenty nineteen explosion at tpc's plant near beaumont a. t. p. c. representative says his application to expand in houston meets health and environmental standards a twenty percent chance of rain this evening. Low should be around seventy eight eighty eight right now on the uh campus on gail lauder news eighty eight seven support for npr comes from i-drive providing cloud backup full system backup and.

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Byte Eline Powell On Wearing A Bodysuit On Siren

Sci-Fi Talk

02:32 min | 11 months ago

Byte Eline Powell On Wearing A Bodysuit On Siren

"Hi welcome to season two of bite. This is tony till auto parenting an apocalypse. It's it's not the same way that you you know how it works. Any views usually two to four minutes long but sometimes they can be a little longer. When you when you live long enough. All kinds of strange things happen very right in saying that. The greek heroes the original superheroes in part because of the hopeful nature of genes vision but also because of its message of diversity and inclusion line pow shared with me that if she had to get a full body cast for her role as rin in the tv series siren into thing the credited for the product and the created the poll manmade body and If you know you have the knox so much skin scale on the and that the unified being you know kind of all the way to the gym so betrayed over detailed. Tell the generally natan seventy and gorgeous they gonna go cower the so heavy three guys in the tank and we did find that you know took six seven hours to on though it was already club type. I turn you get to do over seven but once we win the i object you when good movement and the world's two zero so we vice president it they can they They decided you just for the when we've been with even you just you and then they just getting coast for adult out. They have heckman. Do we should camacho the disease after that we actually Very free and we. We didn't want like down by the heavy pathetic soccer tickets like ten minutes that ready to the buzzing ha. Yeah yeah. Siren is on freeform for all three seasons but sadly they will be no season for for bite. This is tony talada.

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Tunisias Doctor Begins Issuance Of Recovery Certificates To COVID-19 Patients

Newscast - Africa

01:55 min | 1 year ago

Tunisias Doctor Begins Issuance Of Recovery Certificates To COVID-19 Patients

"The affiliate podcast shares the stories of multifaceted Africans one episode at a time the podcast aims to uncover the untold stories of modern and millennial applicants based in various parts of the world. Each episode gives listeners an opportunity to learn and experience conversations that showcase who they are and global perspectives in our ever changing world fish also listen and subscribe to the Athlete podcast on spotify or wherever you listen to your favorite podcast. You can also follow at athletes podcast and all social media platforms. Listening to the news at this, our on Africa Business Review doctors into Nisha will issue recovery certificates for cured covid nineteen patients so that they can resume work. This is according to the Director General of the Pastor Institute of Tunis. Heckman deserve during a press conference loser clarified that recovered cases of the coronavirus will no longer build quired to carry out another test to resume work for health official not scientific studies have shown that. In ten days after the first positive test results, an asymmetric case is completely cured and is no longer contaminating. He added that for symptomatic cases three days after the disappearance of the symptoms mainly fever the subject is completely cured Tunisian Health Ministry on Wednesday reported two, thousand, three, hundred and twelve covid nineteen cases raising the total number of infections to twenty, four, thousand, five, hundred, and two with three, hundred, sixty, four deaths of a country. That was the news at this time. When Africa Business Radio you can continue to listen live online at www Africa business radio, DOT COM or fire on mobile. App I'll be really thanks for listening.

Africa Business Review Africa www Africa Tunisian Health Ministry Pastor Institute of Tunis spotify Heckman Nisha Director General official three days ten days
#253 Kingdom Come #1

Krypton Report: The Supergirl Podcast

57:08 min | 3 months ago

#253 Kingdom Come #1

"The j. louis. The voice of superman on justice league axelsson You're listening to podcasts. Including superman answer because we discussed tv shows in facebook. If you want to help out this show in any other show on southbound media group and you really don't have the extra money to do so check this up. Good as southgate dot com at the top link to amazon. Click that log into your amazon shop. Embolic normal and part of the money that you spend gums back to us to help us with our podcast. Hello everybody s. When alexi that southgate media group has its own patron. That's right for five dollars a month. You can get exclusive show's content and interviews with the different podcasters. The network. This week in geek is a page on exclusive only series. So check it out go. Www dot patriots dot com slash southgate. Meager we are always adding new content. And if you wanna have a good time keep listening to the don report. Welcome to the krypton report. I'm your host tyler. The superman of blue and with me is my best as pow my friend of the other part of ohio. The one the only mr james cole. The super bowl by best friend. Welcome james to this wonderful night. We're going to have fun. Like i'm really excited to talk this We are starting. We're gonna talk kingdom come but we're going to do this issue by issue and we're going to do a monthly kind of like how they they released it. Because i feel the more i read this book the more i get out of it the more like i talked before on the podcast about how i always identify more the writer and i always go to the words and i look at the art but i feel like the more. I read certain books. I started studying the art more. And more and i found that when i was rereading this and i haven't read this used to read it a lot at least once a year and i was thinking about today. I think the last time i read kingdom come was maybe six five to six years ago. It's when i met mark waid. And i had him amid marquait twice the first time i had him sign the kingdom. Come the second time having do superman birthright choice. Either either way around. It was just the book that i could get to the first and the second time is when i asked if i could do an interview with him so you know. The first time i was more nervous sounds good since the podcast was more superman focused. I thought well if i had the nerve to medium again and talk to him birthright. It'd be what i'd want to have in my hand So yeah kingdom. Come it if you don't know what this book is. I highly recommend checking it out. It is on dc infinite. That's actually where. I have pulled up because my signed copy by mark waid is packed away. As we're approaching our move james win was the first time you read this do you. You know trying to remember how. Many years ago i've thought about Because i didn't read it earlier. I didn't read it back when it first came out. I feel like. I wouldn't it as much if i were to read it when it first came out right and i read it because of because you know because of the hype around it being such a sport but it phenomenal artwork. So i mean. I probably got it within the last six or seven years. And that's and that's when i read it. I bought trade. I bought it. I bought it solely because this was about two thousand eight aby between six and eight between two thousand six eight. Am and what it was was. I had moved and there was a even saying this means old but a dalton bookstore in the mall and they used to do. Because like where i lived for a long time there was no comic shops and when i first started driving the only comic shop get to kind of far away and i still like had a drive through downtown so i was kinda nervous About driving in. And so where. I was living at the time. The dalton books had graphic novels and they had a big sale or buy three. Get one free and there were already like a percentage off the cover price so i was like cool and i just started buying stuff up. I think i bought. I know i think i did two rounds of it. In those two rounds. I got Identity crisis kingdom. Come the all star. Batman and robin and then i got Parts one and two of outs rosters justice and then there was one more book. They're six net buying total. And i do not remember what the other one was off the top of my head because they didn't have a whole lot left so and this was when i picked up just kind of read it looked to the artwork was cool because i really was getting into buying more than just reading at the time. And that's when i first read. I remember the title. I remember hearing the title you know and always having this prestige with it and i loved it and the first thing that i loved about a when i started reading it was the idea of like the religious biblical connection so i was going to bible school bible college. The idea. the book of revelation kind of coming to fruition. Through the superheroes. And i was like wow. This is really cool interesting. Yeah i mean. I don't have such a nine i you know i'm new. Heard about what it was. It's our sure. And so. I i got the book just outed on a rape It's definitely good. Storytelling it's massively influential and for anyone who is younger. Who's this book. When you read this book you will see what helped inspire mark millar to write jupiter's legacy there's a lot of parallels in the legacy book and tv series in themes that fall into the kingdom come style so some quick back story of here kingdom comes a four issue. Comic book mini series published in nineteen ninety-six. This this year's the twenty fifth anniversary. I wanted to kind a time. It with the original releases were but this year's been so crazy. Because of just we have continual shows you all year with superman and lois an with supergirl and stuff like usually have a nice break. We can spread more stuff out But it was an imprint. It was written by mark. Waid and alex. Ross because alex ross had an idea and wrote a forty page handwritten outline treatment and he. The idea was an odalisque. Much like watchmen and ross had done marvels in nine hundred ninety four four. Who marvel agean that. I've read that one i used to have. I think my brother took my copy of it. And then he probably sold it because he's like that But the story was given by editors to mark way to right. I think it was share. Your robinson no there was another. It was outdoors another writer. The alex russia originally had in mind but mark has such a huge vast knowledge of the history of the dc characters that he was chosen by editors to be the one to write the book with alex and the character of the preacher. That's in. It is based on alex father in anyone. Who's familiar with alex's work no he's used models to stand imposes certain poses and then he will paint and draw and paint the characters from the models and in the trade paperback that i had. I think it has a picture of alex's father and you can see in in the character of the preacher Some more just some impact things in the world like i said we'll dive into the book but of course most recently That's been president. Is brandon ralph's costume for the crisis on infinite earth was basically the come suit. It was the suit style. He had the gray in his hair Which i think that was an excellent choice to kind of be the first one to don this his legacy this having had the extension of the of his film series you know i think he was the perfect choice to kind of bring to life. The kingdom come esque superman or he was so young and superman returns at the time. Pass it and everything em- actually getting back. I mean it's awesome that they bigger too but as as pink art. It's success it's great because it's something fans it also sets him apart and it kind of really gives him his own identity as superman a little bit. More compared to how his costume was different than crystal kizzee was an extension of So kinda give him it. Kinda does give them an opportunity to set his is version apart so close to reeves now pretty much an extension of by atkins speaking of reeves when you. Here's something interesting but i did. You know that. Kirk allen and george were both thirty seven when they became superman. Wow and gino them gerard christopher when he became superbowl was older than brandon. Routh tyler heckman and henry capital. I think tyler might be the variable. Have think back. But when henry cavill and brandon routh as superman were younger gerard. Christopher debuted as super boy. Yeah because i know that they are. I know that both brandon and clean for about twenty or two only seven right around that rage. Pretty sure brandon like twenty or and was either twenty six or twenty seven out belmont. Henry's chandler is two years older than us so and then think that many still filming in twenty eleven in twenty twelve wish because the goal was to have it released in two thousand twelve originally so it was ready to go by december twenty twelve. That's not supposed to be released before. They moved it to may of two thousand thirteen but here is one more cool tidbit. I actually wanted to get this person on the podcast. Talk about this. And i'd actually like to read this but the novelization Kingdom come was written by elliot. S magon it was published by warner aspect as a hardback. It fleshes out characters such as magazine in the world leaders in batmans connection in the story. The puc also contained four new color pages by ross as well as four black and white stretches of the major players an audio play was adapted based off the novelization. And of course they've made action figures of kingdom come wonder woman's armor from nineteen eighty-four is very kind of kingdom. Come style and the exoskeleton that bat men were the kevin conroy in crisis was very kingdom. Come style so that's all my kind of background notes. Here's a quick summary of the stories and we'll get into the world story is a deconstruction tale set in a feature the deals with a growing conflict between the visibly out of touch traditional superheroes and a growing population of largely a moral Dangerous irresponsible new vigilantes in many cases the offspring of traditional heroes. Now when this was written this was the time and one of the influences was it was very much the world of the anti hero in comics. You had wolverine. You had logo. You know this is. I think when you had punisher war zone You had spun spun was on in the nineties. Yeah but i was thinking spun. The movie was ninety seven so the comic was out earlier. I just trying to get times table right. Because i was eleven when this book came out and if i read this when it came out it would have been cool but wouldn't have hit me as hard as it does. Now some asi you and not see. Yeah and you wouldn't apprec- me the idea of the values and everything that the characters are trying to uphold and protect and what the new heroes are doing. So are you ready. Sham kingdom come. And i will say this is probably like the cover. I like the least. I like the way. Alex ross did the covers but this is like the specter within a whole bunch of the new heroes. We have no idea who anybody is our here. We go side specter up front. Yeah the specter and then a bunch of people like a ride which is an interesting choice. You know first. Page beautiful art. And what do we see james but a giant mythical looking bat with a eagle all the american flag painted in it attacking and we have there were voices thundering and lightning an earthquake. And then we see more just kind of destruction and very very prophetic because we're basically getting scripture of the book of revelation over top of the images and the next page is like a battle in the back in green fire. A man is burning on his knees. Hand is holding a lightning bolt and then the next page is when we get a preacher. Sitting at the bedside of a man named wesley and wesley time the images he's seen and the visions. And who is this man. James wesley dots of nurse confident off. Jesus bats so bad as i arm But yeah this is the sandman asleep. So the one thing i was thinking about. It's it's kind of tricky. Jsa time you have a the jsa's spring code in the old school. I don't want to say like it's the golden age up because technically the golden age was you know ended with For the man. Who has whatever happened to the mandate tomorrow. But it's kind of like that earth to ish. Jsa justice league thing where because the as we'll learn. Flash of this is a not very allen it is jay garrick and the green lantern is alan scott so those always points to help us determine where we are but then you have. Superman and superman was never really part of gsa till like later. Jeff john type stuff at times and it was weird but anyways so we have sandman. And what i what am i in this next page is if you look as a preacher goes to read if you look behind him. There's a person with wings coming down with the gargoyles. And then you into the next panel you see people flying and then at the bottom you see more and more people flying and it says behold a shoe you a mystery we shall not all sleep but we shall all be changed and then the next page is the funeral and the preacher he. He talks about not many people coming in how to him and his wife who had passed. Became friends with wesley dobbs over time in how tried to not to live in the past but yet wanted to hear stories of his glory days and then we see a newspaper says un enacts meta human centuries will centuries curb meta human violence. Ninety one percents a no seven percents a yes. Two percent say undecided and then this is where we have the preacher walking around in you see people out and about and you know. It's interesting if you look at the top panel. The person's holding their hand out and people are looking. It's almost like they're taking a selfie does even though that wasn't a thing yet right taking a selfie or their point up there looking at the same thing but it's interesting you know that reading it. But as wesley goes he sees like a statue that had fallen down. This is the retur. Yeah not wesley. A lasting they saying here in a minute trying to get there but we he passes the shop that's like and he's talking about how. There's no more human achievement. Yeah nor man as normal man in talks about. there's no more olympic games or nobel prizes. There's no more achievement by mankind humans. We see an old shop that has antiques. And it says special signed game ball from the last ever world series in zero two. There's under the hood by hollis mason. I never contact with four holy cow. that's cool. Oh wow oh. I never saw that saying is going through and kind of really like studying now. The next page is win. That's a fantastic. Catch watchmen so much a great there. The next part is awesome if he took when you turn the page on the planet krypton and it is a diner and we see above planet krypton. We see plastic man like very super frenzy type characters. And there's a lo- there's even a logo in that style. But he wants into the diner. He's created by a green lantern. Who's good good afternoon citizen. How may i serve you the menu so at this time you think it's poor taste to have you know what would happen. Rooftop sign is an exploding plan out the rocket lying Around it i mean. I think yeah i mean. I think the concept of the restaurant is absolutely. I don't know why brothers doesn't have restaurants like this In like six flags or wherever or just pop up a chain of restaurants like this. You know john and wrote me. Happy to have a dc superheroes it earned boot right. Hire people who like to cost play. You know what. I'm saying like The they you know they get an extra bonus if they use their own costume. But but i'm just thinking. Is there even johnny rockets anymore. I don't know but like i always the hard rock cafe iraq iran. I don't know anymore the one that i knew of. I haven't been down there in forever but because the movie theater closed but like planet. Hollywood pretty much folded up and i mean granted. There used to be one in columbus planet. Hollywood it closed and became a maximum. Is what it is now. I haven't been around there forever but it's just interesting because it's just you know burgers and fries type joint but it's the atmosphere but you go to so i think if this was an actual i would be there all the time to play overpriced for hammers mean hamburger. They have at hard. Rock is good but it's a little overpriced but you love the environment right. That's why you go back a guy the guy reading at the door what do you think not a bad job. Tights a. Tell me. I make a pretty good breen. What do you call them. Arrow union. what he's doing. Yeah we have an aquaman flash but the flash is very much barry allen style. So that's interesting you know and then you have a wonder woman who looks like she could care less issues in the background. A batman looks like just like a costume by adam west costume inside of the inside at the case his. Then you have your free Almost keri kelli looking because of the hair-color robin taking orders. And then when you turn the page as or no. I just wanna calling. Wesley as norman is leading. You know we see a streak run by him. And then the next panel we see a. It's from the comic book jimmy Jimmy like a giant turtle marquee. Yeah a superman's al nielsen. And he eats just narrating. He says the man had gone to his grave without one grain of faith in the future and the saddest part was he was far from alone with each passing day. Hope for tomorrow's become more and more precious commodity a commodity among everyday folk still. I tried to keep the faith and new to the into huge scriptures. According to the word of god the meek with someday inherit the earth someday and then you see like a bus flipped when you turn the page. It's just an he says. But god would never accommodate for the mighty and it's one to see who's fighting here but there's basically one two three four five six seven eight super beings have fighting here is just all out destruction. It's it's crazy when you turn the next page It's just you can just see the just the chaos and people running and screaming and people are getting hurt on the side and the world. Wesley laughed filled not with his heroes but with their children and grandchildren. That number and the nameless thousands progeny of the past inspired by the legends of those who came before if if not the morals they no longer fight for the right they fight simply to fight. They're only show each other the superhumans both they've all but eliminated the super villains of yesteryear. And i think that's what's important is the concept you know just kinda like in You and i did whatever happened. The truth justice. And the american way the superman vs the elite about things superman dozen stands for how important they really are like every person the thinking of people in trying to stop the collateral damage. You know how these people are just crazy. I mean if you turn the page. You'll see where. Norman saves a little girl. And there's a dude basically like in some crazy estim- gear knocked down just kind of laughing. And then they'll the bottom panels could grow crying in the caption. Says they're supposed to be our protectors before that you know you got all running and mature ball and there's a woman on the other side. Looks like she made and so they just they don't air about her or anyone around them. It's interesting so many characters and they all look. I don't say like rip off. But i thought there's definitely some of that ninety generally influencing some of these designs 'cause like it looks like this one dude s. an md cable. Ten of thing you know just like the big guns and the layer and yeah the straps and belts make no sense the look so cool but then after which i don't really have names like very few i think actually get a name next In with an he almost malice off. I say wesley. I just like that name. I guess. yeah wesley. Wesley fracture in norman tells himself tell myself to. This too shall pass that humans still have a chance to reclaim a world. Rightfully theirs while still exists. And then the next page. Basically you see something happened in kansas. And it's like a bullseye zoned. And it says he says i am wrong and you just see a bunch of people kinda looking like whatever happened in kansas which will find out a stunt. Everybody in the next page is him preaching. And he's in the middle of preaching to a congregation in basically he freezes. You know everybody's looking to him to lead. He freezes and he apologizes and You know this is. This is very strong. If you if you're looking at the the art is like on. The second panel is the classic painting of jesus prayer in the garden of which is the same type of thing last panel. That henry cavill was in front of in maintenance deal when he was talking to the preacher and the next panel is Norman ripping pages out of the bible and tearing them up and he's angry and then the next page is when the spectre shows up the real spectre the beautiful specter not allah. And then this says. I have need of you norman mccay. So the preacher's name is norman. Mccay that's why i was waiting for. Yeah sorry kinda like. I'm to well as better since she kept calling him wesley anyways. Yeah tyler when he talks about how he needs him and he's asking you know. Are you an angel. And he's like no not really a sort of higher power has charged me with the task. Punishing those responsible for this coming evil in order to carry out my task. I must anchor myself to a human soul who seeks justice. He said in norma says but i don't and of course specter says you will and basically he says come with me and i'm trying to the panel in the middle was interesting at the top. Muslims can doctor manhattan Thing it's fingering weirdly place position i think. So that looks like his hand yet is but it was just a glance quo panel before it's a same place but is his hand. And yeah that one centers right probably was that before. They're like he. S the takes norman's hand and they disappear and this is where it starts to get fun says where are we. What do you see amid western farmland. But that's not possible. There's no need to lower your voice. We cannot be seen or heard not even by him in. Who do we have james. Apparently somebody says epi superman. But superman in his overalls shirtless working on the farm in overall with long hair. Ingrain ray beard ray side air and now on hair. I mean think about that okay. This is ninety s. Everybody had long hair. Okay i'm just looking at something quick. Here's this thing in this game. Ninety six eight sent that you. I was like oh my assay hippies k. Well said they drew. Wonder woman ugly here and i think they draw. Wonder when a little really. She's not a roddick the way they draw like her she doesn't have like the banks on she's alone cloth. Yeah she's got a she's got a chess piece. that covers up her torso and then and then the front and back tails Over up erc. Brian area and but like that's it. It's not it's not not underwear underneath. It's not like the spanks like tips. Or whatever or like the bikini style suit that she's had since under carter at an amex. She her hips her full on in. We see that us. He came to earth with powers and abilities far beyond those of mortal men and he's walking holding the tractor he's superman. He's been exiled for ten years now. Self imposed exile looks so alone and then here comes wonder woman and she says hello clark and then he looks at her and she calls him cow. He's basically ditched his clark identity in wants to be referred to cao And basically they're talking about him being there and talking about working on the farm things need to grow she says really touches it and you find out it's all a simulation and here's a great example of wonder woman if you look in the bottom left panel how the wind is blowing her her loincloth and as superman turns back on the simulation of the sun on the farm set here to the animals. They're going a little crazy. The horses acas In a in the previous page cow also much tech Dot they were your parents bart dal she white and she your white all right. There is attached himself from everything. Yeah everything from life or being bark from being clark you know his his job his friends his parents everything he is just but yet he's still working on a farm bryant so he has an oscar all even though he will deny it and be stubborn headed as as they all can be there. Still art of Still for him on the farm in his on the farm in the courtroom and she's busy time here a two words see in that see if they sound familiar truth and justice. You can't have completely forgot them. She says just free for yourself had he has let happen to the world. That's all i ask. And he walks and says on multiple screens talking about what was going on. And then we see gray hair. Chested superman say mackinac. Magog in the next page shows. Talk about basically they're fighting parasite and it's and it's like. Both peacemaker. had a child together look like that right. And then there's some other caregivers at who are the magog god with their fighting parasite and there's a line of who says the parasite Whereas it i was fearful he was playing for mercy and they were ignored is surrender and he was just trying to stop. But the one person is captain atom says basically a parasite eh prepping captain atom. And when he did that illegal has radiation and just killed everyone animals anything and became a complete wasteland after hundred kilometer or hundreds of billions. Die of dr of breast rendering the entire state of brassica Irradiated omega amarat's Light off of Sterile station of agrarian alter As brown world Laps magog along with the metal man alloy. The soul survivors of the incident could not be reached for and he turns it off and then one was like cow. Arjun ration- takes lead from you. Always you must woo. Hey that was for both of us. That cow yeah guy and he basically was like. There's nothing i can do from here. Go back to your island. diana you're safe here. Are your safe there. And she flies up. And i think what's very interesting. Is i feel like after the store. We've gotten a lot of similar theme type. Superman superman like giving up or moving away or even like the evil superman I'll take control over. But that's not what this story is adds to the depth of the story. And then the next part where the specter of showing normal man that you know he talks about the. In the city of superman's absent keystone city has become a utopia protector relentless patrol by a force. Wants human human anymore. It's a big deal. No one sees him. No one hears him. He runs a lonely race but all lives here have felt his presence. He is everywhere at once. A guardian angel. Who's right even the most harmless of ross with lightning speed. He lives between the ticks of a second he is the flash and then we found that hawk man who looks very much like a straight up hawk bird is in the pacific northwest stopping people from deforesting. And then we found out that. Alan scott green lantern weights his image palace above the sky. Then we see like a panel is knight's armor is is very cumbersome talks about the gods of yesteryear no longer walk among the hemans norman mccain said cued by superman surrender. They journey apart divorced from the common men who they want so gladly served. They've lost themselves in ancient civilizations in future times they have left humanity to its own fate. The basically asked about batman gotham city crime people running and then a giant batman looking robot that shines best sonoran there's multiple bat robots that surround them. And you see the spectra bases. A batman has his city under control and then we're back to a cityscape scene and norman turns the spectrum. That's all that's what you have to show me He talks about how he's supposed to be an angel. A messenger of hope. A reiter power sent you. It's a testament of faith. And of course you know quoting scripture and everything are greater angel. A pair of hope. Reiter power cenci existence Just upset with him about back. That because of superman search at that at that all hopes off because the people that are leapt. Don't here and get dropped in on this bridge. A cable car cord between two groups of just gone blaring Looking people who here the thing is you don't know who's hero who's the villain i shy. Don't and that's the part of the point and the cable cars going down and you know normally a fallen in then. They're watching he as we need. Hope the next panel the next page like this And suddenly there was a wind. No not a wind a blur said james blur of no red and blue blair. The rebel blur blur changed that name. That sounds pathetic. James a blur bending their weapons and changing the very course of the mighty river polo and we see the cable car. Basically put on the street by a cyclone of water. Even before the bystanders. Free themselves from the cable car. They knew we all did. We knew and remembered. Look up in the sky and then there stands in problem iconic shots superman in his new costume holding who we now know where the villains. He's just looking down by positively in his is basically all villain right now in o. E superman does what he does he jumped in. He needs all the weapons from one group of people. And you know. Basically sends them flying like poor people sends them flying back and he rescues the cable car and he comes up with the other after other hanging unconscious and we. This is our first look at the quote unquote kingdom. Come suit and the next one is. He had not turned his back on us. He stands in the sky. Faith rewarded. He is returned and and then he remembers the image he had burning. Man is actually superman on his knees and he says dear god. The threat of armageddon has ended. It's just begun and that's the end of the first issue sir. Very good you know. It's on very good very well. Rid bomb snot not too heavy heavy dialogue ordinary in or both setting up a world. You can definitely see by a i an else words world story. Good it slog. And you know i i kind of wish like did you imagine reading this back in the day. Issue by issue was definitely made the trade and now I read it on my tablet earlier. And i read it on and i've been for it on my laptop here about offering and seems off just reading it issue by issue. It is very interesting. You make a that stop you know and this. This book are fixed point. Oh yeah this book has been released in multiple covers Cover to be my favorite. Two is the one that has superman superman red arrow red robin and wonder woman in them. Norman on it so it'll be interesting because we also talking back to what we discussed before. powerless here compared to the super bowl so any last final thoughts on kingdom come issue. I think i think we do really well but everett. It is like if you liked Books like you know. Think that our little truck stop in nature something a little little different certain plane also self contained. If you have a general sense of who superman batman wonder woman are. You're good you know if you just wanna rita a great story in that may not to have the history of everything little give you the history of story outright this book out of five. What do you rate it Berg for first issue I give it a three point. Five fantastic artwork breathe three point five out of five Now i know that some more. Yeah because i know some of the other issue spent It took me a second to get going into it. You know the first few pages in difficult. Because i'm looking back knowing where the story goes. In the first time i read i read it in trade so i just kept going engrossed right. That's what you want but being that it's the first done you're like okay. Well i guess. Yeah i mean i guess thinking about it is i know that some of the issues coming up in a fantastic and this rate as well. You know it's it's above average and it's not just an average on stage. It was as slow. It's a slow brab until specter shows up in shows you some of the world though but it's after after wesley dies and after the the congregation it just yet it picks up right away it picks up after a short bit so just a few pages and then and then you're and you're going so yeah i remember that when i read it the first time to flip in i through the first sheet patriots are worked ing now maybe scripture stuff that that yet me but it's great to re to revisit. I mean you know. When i was younger i was like obsessed with the book of revelation. Because it was you know no matter how you look at the bible and if you not to get like theological anything but like the booker. Relation is basically all prophecy. You know it's the only quote unquote part of. The bible has yet really come to be. You know depending on your beliefs and everything. So it's very open for interpretation and so just kind of that using that backdrop and those words behind the images is just extremely powerful and little younger. Need to be taken care of by this old engravings superman some monster you know. Are you go save the day. We'll look at that final page of him holding him like he has to do that to my to you. We're going to put a pen in their. You know come back next month on wall will get into part two so from james and i. This is episode two fifty three of the on Report and remember. If you're like me and you love listening to different podcast about superman. I have a few that. I want to check out. Some of my favorite are the last sons of krypton. Conner rare always reviewing different books. And it's really nice and refreshing to kind of dig back into older stuff. The aspiring cronin tasmanian her team or always finding interesting people to interview digging for kryptonite is from one of my favorite ones listened to as anthony digs into different areas of the character. There's always the always hold on smallville which i've guested on before if you're wanting to step back into that nostalgia around so check out. All these mini mini Check out our twitter constantly finding new podcast that inspire and bring hope everyone around the krypton. Report is part of the southgate media group network of podcasts if you have an interest checkout southgate meager perceived. Your podcast is there. I bet it is at the south gate. Be group website. You can sign up for our newsletter you'll get info all the shows and you can find what you're one you'll also find links to our sponsors where you can get great products and support the podcast. Also our book pod life podcasting stories. It's a great book. check it out. It's nice to hear people come from the why they do what they do and remember.

wesley alex mark waid southgate media group axelsson mr james cole james marquait brandon tyler brandon ralph crystal kizzee norman Kirk allen gerard christopher Routh tyler heckman henry capital henry cavill Jsa reeves
Niles Heckman, Modern Shamans Harvesting DMT From Toads |488|

Skeptiko - Science at the Tipping Point

1:01:43 hr | 8 months ago

Niles Heckman, Modern Shamans Harvesting DMT From Toads |488|

"So i know you've heard about this. I mean everyone's heard about this. So what happened. The first time that you smoked tied minutes jus fell these white flight the solution of my self. It's like a cultural on the simpsons the toe and have a psych rock and energy. But did you know it's free breath. Okay i want to show you the product of the of the most of these year these. What the the natives and us How collect so far. And i want to explain you the process of how we collect. Do the medicine saw that. Looks like a lot of medicine. This is a lot of medicine. These has been Collect maybe a thousand of coach thousand talk. Maybe around ten days on today's show which is long long overdue. And i have to apologize to. Now's in rack for taking so long to get this out. Especially since their documentary film series shamans of the global village is so truly truly amazing. Remarkable stuff that. I really hope you go watch. Here's a clip from an interview with niles. What do you think of that. Science of anthea jen's each of the different antigens has a different flavor to them so it's been spoken of for example but like silla sivan. Mushrooms are very like cosmic an alien and then the other type of deity which we highlight which you mentioned as the white light in episode one is very much like this kind of hadrian of hyperspace that merges into the guy in you know god head type dynamic of fusing back into the light and other other met indigenous medicines. Such as like peyote and and The cacti have a very kind of masculine Desert energy to them. And it's probably several things of of what you hit on. Their one is probably like the the the history the genealogy of your people where people come from What you resonate with in terms of which medicine. Maybe your ancestors practiced with welcome to skeptical. Were we explore. Controversial science and spirituality with leading researchers thinkers and their critics. I'm your host alex karras and today we welcome niles heckman to skeptical. Niles is a truly amazing Filmmaker documentarian in tog refer and a bunch of other stuff. You're going to see a minute. The stunningly beautiful documentary series. He's done shamans of the global village He's also a blogger of podcast or communicator. And i'm popping up his website here but there's so many interesting things to talk about. He likes to put it in this. Category of ageless wisdom. Some people are calling and theologians the topic that we might pigeonhole into. But there's all kinds of stuff related to this. That i think are just particularly interesting and really respect the deeply intellectual way. He's taking this trying to tie it with other things. In contrast it with what some people in the community are saying and all that and appreciate that the broad perspective that he seems to be bringing this so niles. It's really cool to have you on. I'm so glad we connected welcome. Thanks alex i will not be spending this conversation trying to convince you. We are by logical robots meaningless universe. Okay no good. That's enough to little survey that i that i have which is always good because i do sometimes find myself talking to people and not realizing that we're kind of on a different page. It's kind of a good grounding thing you know so i thought we would jump right in and talk about this film series. It you've done Shamans of the global village. It's like i said it's quite extraordinary. Do you wanna tell us a little bit about your background niles. How you came to do this particular work and then i thought we play a short introductory clip from it. Yes sure i mean. I would call myself to simplify a documentarian and an essayist and It's kind of like being a writer. It's like well within what's the subject matter of what you focus on and depending upon the depth of subject matter you you can. There's a lot to pull from something. So i what i more really is. An esotericism necessarily put that front and center on the website. But because esotericism is essentially the inside you should see the outer work manifesting with. What's correlating with what's going on with inside you saw. All of my overarching body of work focuses on. Yes themes of maybe what might be thought of as hopefully some level of ageless wisdom or spiritual philosophies. What was your background. And how long have you been doing this. I've been doing it for about i. Think twenty twelve was actually a year significant year where some things really clicked over for me. I'm in my early forties now. So it wasn't like i was some star child at twelve and was getting downloads from astral dimensions. Like you know. I i definitely have had in the last. It's now practically twenty twenty one at the time of this conversation. So i've had the last eight years of release starting to focus on developing my craft. Personally taking the body of work from past career skillset which involved working in essentially the formal structures of entertainment industries in very high level professional capacities and then applying some of that professional capacity to this content. That is of higher. You know higher more sophisticated content coleman. I got to drill in there. Because you have to know that buzzers are going off in people's head and they're gonna wanna know more about your move your segue from the entertainment industry. Why do you give up a very high paying salary to do something else. I mean it's usually. It's not an overnight thing either. Somebody transition from one career air quotes to another but the most simple answer to this. Is that basically. I wasn't using the a large part of my skill set. It's like i had a very Professional desirable job within framework within behind commercial industry in los angeles and Basically the post industry of hollywood. And i also had done some work on game cinematics because games are very these days you know. The games are so cinematic these days that it's like cinnamon games influence each other and it's all blending together so i did a variety of capacities within those fields and occasionally i will still freelance very rarely in that capacity. It's not like we overnight off one and go into something else and it's very technician based it's very like assembly line based no matter. What so it was like. I spent years and years just feeling like i was out of alignment and depression in life is usually called for course correction so it wasn't fully depressed. I mean i certainly appreciate the levels of professional work ethic within various industries. Whatever your industry but most people know that with informal structures of an industry. It's not going to fully utilize your creative skillset so at the same time. It's not like you know you completely turn off and then move onto the other. It's a very slow transition pay. So i did find ways to create other streams doing things that were more of independent substance and depth and the nearby. It's like you leave a much more lasting body of work and you know a lot of my work focuses on this kind of trifecta of spiritual growth and then it some level of equilibrium. 'cause equilibrium is kind of a stepping stone to what's called the great work and then those external manifest manifestations which should lead to create about puts. So this this try. Trifecta has led to me becoming much more individualized like. I think we're all ultimately trying to do. You're trying to become much. You're trying to have a much more lasting legacy with what you do in terms of a body of work or some level of perennial wisdom or incite or sharing. You know making your life means something not just be an assembly line robot at whatever glorified level. That might be nice okay. Let's see the product of that if we will are one of the products of it. Indigenous people across the globe have used sacred plants. Animal medicines for millennia to heal illuminate connect them to the web of life traditionally age culture had a healer the works on behalf of their patients. What we call the shaman. And now we find ourselves in a global village. Is it any wonder that we need our own. Healers that understand the power and sacredness. These ancient earth medicines can reveal my name's records zam and i'm an author filmmaker shamanic facilitator. Join me as i interview in sitting ceremony experiencing healing medicines west and shamans across the globe. Watch first hand as i documents. A modern shamanic resurgence being passed on from indigenous tribes to a new wave of medicine people working in the twenty th century. This is shamans the global village. Hey man that's a heck of a trailer teaser. kinda tee it up thing there. Tell us what's going on there with you and rack and that i I sit one in the series that you did. Yeah so this. Show is basically an independently made documentary series and it's essentially a collaboration between rack. Roseanne whose voice you heard there as the host of the show and myself and we created an in two thousand sixteen just justice pilot episode on a very shoestring budget. We went down to mexico with one of the tribes there and shot it And it was a long process. I mean we're kind of figuring out what it alternately was going to be but then it came out really good as essentially a pilot episode of something. That is not professionally. Funded it something. That's made independently and like all documentary. Filmmaking it's just like a question about how does a documentary even get made in the first place. So if i'm going to do something outside the formal structures of the industry it's like and do something that's on a shoestring budget you might as well make something. That's essentially what i would say is very paradigm destroying or very leading edge in terms of its wisdom and content. And not something that you know you would find at first whole from a streaming service or necessarily a hollywood studio. So you're going to get things in this series that are i. Don't wanna say necessarily the pretentious thing of like never been filmed before. But you're definitely going to see things that are of timeless way. Indigenous people have always used these these practices. That necessarily haven't had a spotlight put on them right. So it's like we might as well focus on something that is a actual phenomenally deep spiritual practice and combine that with some level of high production value to create something. That's hopefully novel and original. I did all that. And so. I'm i think it's great and i really enjoyed it and it was very well done beautiful cinematography excellent sound like all the stuff i mean. You guys did a great job on it. I think the the shaman thing in the entheogen thing one of the beauties of the kind of explosion of the alternative media is we all kinda know that or at least know that much more than we ever did. What you brought that. I think was particularly interesting. We can dive into the the content a little bit. Because i think people find it really interesting in episode one you actually do. You know the d. m. t. They get from the toads. We've kind of heard this. But you guys go there to this guy. And the sonoran desert this doctor and you know show how they're actually extracting it and then processing it and i think people will find that part of it really interesting. And then he goes really deep into it in a number of kind of anthropological kind of exploration of but cultures. Down here have lost this. But i can trace it back in some of the art and stuff like that. I mean you really go deep and then you also go into kind of the experiential part of people using this ceremonially or we don't know it is using a ceremony all the fashion in the documentary. But i don't know that it's limited to that so there's this dive into that first. What are people responding to in that episode one and the toad based dm t experience. Yeah let me. I guess. I should back up a little bit because it's relevant to your show and kind of a pre a question that you would ask me before we hit record here. Which kind of lends into what. I'm specs Skeptical about and it's somewhat of like my lawf- a life philosophy or what. We might call like a cipher formula for decoding many of the world's problems which is would also somewhat encapsulates my work and i it's funny. I've been writing an essay on this. And i'm thinking it can be called something like the buydell bidirectional law non correspondence or the scale law of obviousness or something. But this is essentially my world premiere hair so chime on also if you want to add anything to this at any time but we have a dynamic that exists in society through the eons where there's essentially small structures that are natural systems that have gone large over time right and large typically has led to massive problems when more small structures were more than natural way. So i kind of use this comparison of like small too big or bottom top down or maybe like inner to outer are. Sometimes you could say that is decentralized centralized or individualization versus collectivism. Or what i would actually say from a spiritual perspective is more esoteric. Nurses exo teric so shamanism is is what i'm going to get out which being with the being a key correspondence to something. That's related to like small level spirituality but in terms of big structures in society. Today we have something like. Let's say if you're more right leaning in your politics a lot more right. Leaning people have identified something like big government. Which is this centralized government governmental form of power and without getting a wash in the spaghetti sauce and the politics of something you know we can say that that that can lead to any side of political l. With you know we have in terms of my communism or fascism or even kind of post truth corporate consumer capitalism or plutocracy or any sort of centralized governmental power structure. But what you don't necessarily ever hear is than the other side of the spectrum is big corporations right. We have a massive consumers commercial culture. These days which max you know. It's it's full. It's it's seoul Profit or sole reason for existence and a large structural reason to maximize quarterly profits. We have boards of directors who demand endless financial growth on a planet of finite material resources. And you know. These systems are are pro. Privatizing gains it's socializing losses. It's oftentimes done at the public purse. And we it's a system that used to do this. This kind of governmental corporate large scale structures designed to just working class people in fighting the two sets of people on opposite sides of the political that each make fifty thousand dollars a year. Or even less you know our infighting when they are not looking up at the guy in the high-rise building that's making eleven thousand dollars an hour with a team of lobbyists in washington so we had this very much like corporate ties government dynamic and then we can tell you this big scale system stuff into like big money as well which like we have a centralized federal reserve an aristocratic class that is engaged in like medieval feudalism of what has left us today. With in today's society massive amounts of wealth inequality. you know there's a website called l. curve dot org you can go check some of that out. It's very eroding to our middle class and you know let alone poor. People which is indigenous people indigenous people are very much on the bottom of the social economic. Totem and then we get into another big system. Something like science. And i know alex you talked a lot about science from getting consciousness. Wrong in the sense of that but Lot much of big science systems with informal structures are very materialist materialistic and demonstrably expensive with development of the atomic. Bomb or the large hadron collider. And you know a lot of scientists within formal structures Care seem to care as much about keeping tenure as trying to actually really develop something that's on the leading edge and of course there's an old phrase that says like science advances one funeral at a time and then in terms of something other bit another big thing in terms of like big religion or what we might call big spirituality. We have this cult of religion right. Which is this. I think at one point. I heard you say alex you use specifically that. The difference between a key difference between a colt and religion is just the number of subscribers right. So we have a religious contract. That's essentially around today. That's really just made by man to reduce larger spiritual concepts into prepackaged sets of moral doctrine which people buy wholesale. And we've had a very much imperial take over that with. Constantine you know. Weaponising the bible in rome and you know turning things like literal readings of the scriptures Much of which are very barbaric at face value. And we have you know. There's with you know large g god. And the outsourcing of things in terms of like heaven hell or outsourced external. What essentially happening with extra. We've externalised things into corporeal deities and these structures are very patriarchal they're very dominant. They're very disempowering to women you know you look at something like The burqa and fundamentalist islam and then within these formal large directions large structures of religion. We have pedophilia. there's megachurches i was in a. I went to a wedding recently in alabama. That was at a mega church. And all my gosh dude. It was like the most commercial. The place look more like a shopping mall than it did to do. Anything within spirituality. And i occasionally will also get these Advert adverts on linked in. Which is you know this. Work based social network for job postings that i kind of peak at and every once in a while with a bunch of corporations or big tech companies. They'll be like church. That seeking out something so that that is not a spiritual entity that's a commercial entity and we have you know tm Televangelist preacher that do this massive fundraising have huge fourteen thousand square foot houses in texas and flan. Meg adjusts we. Have you see the negative aspects of big religion with within the politics of the vatican or something like israel and then what would that essentially as a separation between echo teric the outer forms of religious doctrine and dogma versus something that's more esoteric so then if we take these small systems if we take the same look at all these structures from a small perspective like looking at something like small government you know we go back to government we look at like small local community governates right knowing our local representatives Funding your local schools local library local infrastructure and does all bullshit. That doesn't that doesn't work. I mean you know what the thing listening to When i was watching the movie and i was struck by you know kind of the political zeh of it the unavoidable. I mean i respect that. You're attempting to grapple with rather than sidestep the political issues. But i don't understand why the hell somebody a you guys you guys in your camp in the esoteric camp in the entheogen. Camp in the spirituality can't which i consider myself part of but why so many of you are left leaning progressives in why. you're not stark raving over the top libertarians. I mean do you do realize that the that they are right now conspiring to take away all your rights to access all of this stuff in the because obama is gonna stand up there and take the fucking vaccine in the arm. it is the ultimate play in the. I don't understand from a political standpoint to kind of cut through the whole essay. Why you're not standing shoulder to shoulder with the gun toting repor in austin texas. I'm not a gun toting. Prepar in austin texas but i understand that sensibility much more than i understand this. Oh well you know this globalization is really gonna work out in the end kind of thing. Yeah i would say that from a centralized perspective of any sort of power structure. You know you don't want to globalize things. I would probably tony. I might identify a little bit more with a gun. Toting person in texas as well being Not by any means against the second amendment. But i mean i agree that it's like i don't i don't mean to make it us as a political thing that that wasn't the intention but would i what i am trying to just correlate the difference between like a small structure versus a large structure regardless of and keeping that as. I would hope apolitical as possible. Well hey don't get me wrong. I appreciate where you're coming from. And i really mean that. Sometimes i don't know i come across the the wrong way i i. I'm engaged in this conversation. Meaning that i respect where you're coming from and i want a dialogue with you. I wanna know where you're coming from more. So if i am pushing against you that's okay. It's just to get to this kind of next level and a so. I guess i'll return you to this point. Because i think it's really salient to the work that you're doing. I have become rather conspiratorial over the years and science is what drew me to conspiracy. Because i didn't understand biologic robot. Meaningless universe seem kinda crazy to me and it was only by investigating that. I realized the of the the absurdity of that and you're dealing with a lot of absurdity your film near films constantly brushing against in a directly kind of calling out this craziness that we live in and and i love in episode one. You know he's saying we we do live in a crazy world. You have to enter into that space first before you can even consider the shamanistic kind of way. But i i digress slightly science and this in-your-face materialism contradiction to consciousness. Is what led me to conspiracy. But now that i'm in conspiracy. What i see as conspiratorial is this desire to control our consciousness and that desire seems to be directly in conflict with alternately. Where you're going so you can say that the un has given this guy the past drive around. Fuck that shit. It ain't going to happen. They're going to try and take all this shit away from you and that isn't even at this point. They've already said put the fucking mask on. I mean there is no more dramatic in your face again. Kind of reckoning of what's coming then put the fucking mask on it. We don't need any science to support it. we're doing it by edict. How do you think a you know towed gland. Emt and the peyote is going to stand up to that. It can't be much larger context of control again. You're talking about the a centralized power structure. That's you know dictating something on on us From a perspective of what is a larger scale system. Yeah i mean. I would say in terms of like a small systems. Dynamic with science is that there is a difference between a mandate from on high top down versus like somebody that is within a Personal science dynamic right like an independent researcher. That's doing things with an open ended. Discussion related to science may be working more off the beaten path with their Exploration within south something you know they might respect the scientific method but then they know that within the structure of where they're working they can't necessarily do the full spectrum of their scientific research but then there knowing that on their own they can do this type of thing so i would see that i mean. I think that we saw that. Within somebody like nikola tesla or wilhelm reich and that. I would even go so far to say do that. Ancient practices something like even astrology or alchemy. Al chemistry were also engaging in the scientific method. So there's a difference between doing something more independently that's more kind of metaphysically based versus something. That's yes the the negative aspects of what you just hinted on but I mean in terms of also like let's say let's look to something like a smaller systems dynamic within spirituality for example so rather than looking at like literal holy books as these black and white doctrines that are to be handed on down. We then can look at something. That's maybe existed from the onze like myth and allegory and this starts to get into more shamanic based practices right. which is the esoteric core of Many many faiths through time even prior to what would be the abraham fates and i would say that You know you look at at at something like formal structure glitch in a lot of that has been a a coopting takeover of shamanic practices. That are from way many eons ago right or other practices that were more people based from the land like the druids or more nonstick based practices. Even something like the witches of the past which a lot of people have this kind of hollywood is version of what a which was from the past when in reality it was just typically a moorland woman and shamanism this starts to get into more semantic based practices and people that don't really have reference points on what shamanism is or what it's why it's important or what it's about and to kind of lead into what your questions about his. That shamanism is as old as the hills. And it's about a spiritual practice that's directly related to your personal direct experience and connection with you know sis some level with with the divine and so that's why. I think it's nice to just kind of put this encapsulating philosophy on something for people to have reference points in why a lot of work focuses on these themes of hopefully would have some level of Ancient ageless wisdom Which gets into direct experiences with higher states of consciousness. And that's something that we'd seen through ancient civilizations in the past and why outside of just the first specific episode of the show and the fact that at the time of this recording. We've done to episode of making it. Because it's something that we're making slow drip. Each episode can be as complex to make a feature documentary film The importance of of shamanism. And why it's a crucial dynamic to a healthy community of civil court symbolism as we say that there's two specific reasons why people might engage in shamanic. Practice is one is for healing which isn't just necessarily physical healing at gosawx be a mental healing but then also for the expansion of consciousness and those two things are kind of correlated with mental healing and expansion. Because yes we do live in a very contractive culture. So that's why it's it's it's a key thing that is being very much rediscovered right now. That's existed through much of time. Soon house let me kind of pick. Continue to poke away in my scalp to style here. Because i sent a couple of shows that i've done on Shamanism and one particular very very interesting to me. And i think it kind of roundabout way gets to this thing were pingpong back and forth. But i feel like we're not really nailing down so interview this guy. Dr brian hayden super well respected you. Now in the canadian anthropology royal society so credentials and stuff like that in any wrote a book about I guess you could say schimanek self aggrandizement. So he went and studied all these native cultures groups and he studied the shamans in them and he said a lot of times. What this is all about. Is this sage on the stage. Woodall way to millie ref cultish self-aggrandizement were the shaman. Goes into the goes into the sweat lodge and comes out and says hey niles man i seen it. I talked to the spirits and dog. You believe what they told me. They told me that. I should be hooking up with your wife all month next month. And that's going to give you some great powers and you're going to go out there and you're really gonna hit it on the next big hunt. So this is an anthropologist. Going this is just what the data shows this is. What's out there. This is what happens now my pushback. I think that's an. I think that's an important point. That's an important point. That's data point and this guy's on a good job of documenting the the flip side of that which i was pushing him on is okay but brian are there really extended realms of consciousness where these spirit entities do exist and he has to go. Well you know. I don't know i've investigated and then with your push them hard enough. He goes yeah. I do believe they are he says professionally as an anthropologist inside of my community talking the talk that i'm forced to fucking talk. I can never say that so. This is a both and kind of what. Look at shamanism. That i guess. I wanna throw on the table because it's not all unicorns and rainbows absolutely not. There's some really negative things with even tribal cultures. You know. I mean an a two times. I've gone into indigenous tribes. They have beautiful things about them. They had this rich animistic history of living in balance with nature and growing up with that and having more of an ecological framework an animistic mindset on on living in harmony but then also they have major they can have major problems as well and can still be patriarchal in have negative aspects. There's really Do she wishy-washy grow you know Pseudo shamans that are in santa. Monica yoga classes versus some. That's a huge difference between an actual and they're not just in santa monica. They're down in the in the in the villages that you drove through with the plastic coverings on the window. They're right there to their absolutely and it's good point you raise because just like within a religious structure i mean. Sometimes you know. We'll see within you know i always. I always oftentimes use the sturgeons law dynamic of ninety percent of everything scrapped. So if something's real can totally take the pressure but within formal religious structures to. I mean it's not fair to say that all of its garbage every once in a while you will find a fantastic person that is within working within theology and a lot of the original. Christ's teachings are very beautiful teaching so to give something a more mature and sophisticated populace rent recognizes subtlety and nuance and we can see that a lot of the time when structures are so misappropriated and and and there's been a big marketing job over time. That's not good so within shamanism which is something that has always been more of a up dynamic with like tribal indigenous people. There's been a lot of Criticizing of that of the aeons for the negative aspects of what goes along with it. And it's very true that you know when you get involved with these things it's very serious stuff. There's a huge reason why you know semantic We use that. We use the proper turn of calling them entheogen instead of a psychedelic drug which has a lot of negative connotations around it but npr agendas means awaken the divine with from within. But it's important to if somebody's going to have an anthropogenic experience to not just do it. Wishy washy a framework. That's not a proper set in setting or container to do it within and to do it within respect and honor and ideally within some lineage of somebody that has a proper transmission with the indigenous people. And so that's what we try to do. Within the show is highlight. Somebody that has been trained within the lineage of the tribal people and hopefully they tribal elders and You know nobody's perfect but that's kind of the. There's a huge difference in who you highlight because it's just like going to the doctor. It's like you want to bet who you're going to work with before you an experience with somebody but dr vio- and i Episode he doesn't have that lineage. He have to say comes across as an incredibly deep and Just profoundly connect kind of person. I don't know what it is. But he has a background of Drug addiction as well. Which when he when that was revealed is kind of surprising to me. But you know actions speak louder than words. His long standing work with all sorts of different people who particularly people who are disenfranchised. I hate that word down there. But he seems to be walking the walk and that's awesome but he doesn't have that lineage. So i just you know. I'm not just trying to be. It's just not that simple in my experience in the let me before i let you respond to that. I'll throw another one on the table. That i think again draws that out a little bit further you reference rick strassmann dr rick strassmann and a lot of people who've have been a cursory knowledge T. in the spirit molecule. No his book in his documentary of that name. But look we're stress now. He's been off for years doing this. S o terry christianity. Kind of thing in a very I don't want it to berry kind of hard to understand way i. He seems to be somebody who's completely taken in a different direction. Add to the fact that his actual research laboratory work with d. m. t. it stands in contrast with the lot of the set and setting rituals ation of I- awasa and d. m. t. traditions. So there's a lot to unpack here. It's not it's it can't be packed into an hour documentary which did but yeah. I mean that's why it would. Ideally be a series. But it's a good point you raise. Because i mean spirituality i would. I would be so bold as to put forth dynamic that spiritual life is truthful life and ideally in the difficulties of modern society today. It's like we're not going to go back to all necessarily soli chopping wood and carrying water and living in this way that indigenous people from the past but they had a great connection from the past and wisdom that we can still glean some insight with in terms of the way that they had a relationship with essentially power plants and animals and those those ability to have a huge a very quick example for having giving people an experience that to an an initiative experience and much of today's society know we have no level of initiation into adulthood no level of like spirit quest for some level. I mean it seems like only initiation that college gives had these days is like drinking alcohol. Mind contracting Sanctioned liquid drug alcohol out of red plastic cups. So i i would the reason that we highlight The importance of something like anthropogenic use along the spiritual path is not the only. It's not an end all be all of your spiritual life. It's just an important key. Perhaps a moment of some level of initiation into some of or insight or depth is that it gives you that level of some level of stair stepping into adulthood much like the native. Americans did with various Initiatives practices or also with How how many civilizations of ancient time did this. Where you know that there'd be the temple of allusive or the oracle at delphi where they would have. These people would pilgrimage to these places. Have these massive life transforming experiences that aren't gonna make your life perfect by any means but Based upon what you put in is what you can get out of them and if you if you are really having massive negative suffering in your life. These things aren't an end all be all and they're not certainly a a one stop shop but they have a potential for a huge amount of individual healing if somebody is ready to to heal themselves or to work on themselves. So that's oftentimes why we that they are so important. And that's what much of my work as as oftentimes touched on with the show and elsewhere in conversations. So what what do you make of the of the science that is now emerging surrounding and theologians. I think a lot of people including myself are encouraged. That you know some people are looking at this seriously and studying it seriously. Because we don't want to throw out some of the things we can learn from the scientific method and how to control experiments and how to test whether 'cause claims are being made this is you know The like the like the claims that you just made it can be efficacious in clearing depression. For example it can be efficacious in helping people overcome drug addictions with these are. That should be an answerable question. You know we can do rather well understood controlled studies right now and get to the answers of that. Do you think of that. Science of Of antigens which is you can find all over the internet where people are having serious. You know conferences at medical university of pennsylvania and their doctors. And hd's who are getting together talking about this stuff it is that of interest to you at all and how do you see that fitting into your your view of the world interest. It is very much interest and it's a good point. You raise in to kind of go back to your previous question. Alex which i didn't do a very good job of asking or answering when you have a clinical setting. It's a lot different when you know things that have been put into a scientific dynamic where you're doing likes sort of research program in a in a more medical based building versus doing something that's more in a tribal setting or if it's very unlikely that somebody would have direct tribal connection to a shamanic experience but it is likely that there's this you know people are doing more like a psychedelic tourism. I gotta kinda bump in there a little bit because Stress work contradicts that right cause stress mints working just pulling in people off the street more or less in new mexico and given him d. m. t. and they're gone to the amazon in that extended realm and they're seeing the same spirit beings and they're saying some of the same. They're they're also seeing et. Which i don't know you don't really talk about non human intelligence but they're also saying the other thing that i guess is is missing and it was curiously missing in a lot of the the work that i've seen so far is that some people see this connection with this extended realm as being much more connected in mediated by spirit entities real entities that have certain powers and attributes and have some role to play in this. At least some people leave in in interfacing between that extended roman this realm. So you don't three points. I guess. I'm making their one. Is why are stress mints people connecting with some of the same amazonian shamanistic entities in their experience in new mexico. When they don't even have any background in that and then to what are we to make of the of the spiritual part of this and the spirit entities that many are reporting are connected with this realm. Because you're going to do in the blob of consciousness white light. There's just one thing that don't pay any attention to the spirits thing. Well that's that's for episode one and just to give some context the way we we hoped to structure the show going forward is that each episode focuses on a specific medical with specific medicine practitioner. And for those. That aren't familiar. I mean there's different. Each of the different antigens has kind of a different flavor to them. So it's been spoken of for example like silla sivan. Mushrooms are very like cosmic an alien and there's two types to mar two primary types of emt one which is found in the iowa vine which is End emt is very cosmic. And i'm sorry it's not cosmic but it's very like jungle a feminine energy Ecological energetics and then the other of emt which we highlight what you mentioned as the white light in episode one is very much like this kind of hadrian of hyperspace that merges into the you know god head type dynamic of fusing back into the light and then other other met indigenous medicines such as like peyote and and The cacti have very kind of masculine desert energy to them and i. It's probably several things what you hit on. Their one is probably like the the the history the genealogy of your people where people come from What you resonate with in terms of which medicine maybe your ancestors practice with. There's us being you know of european descent. Alex you know. There were practices in scandinavia from eons. Back at us like the amadiya. Musk area mushroom. Which is that black and white. Sorry that red and white mushroom which we see all the christmas cards and things like that. So those are things that based upon where you're probably from you have some resonance with and then also In terms of yes. You're there's probably something with the dynamic of your european history and the residences of the kind of reality tunnel of your culture from what you get based upon the experience so if you were to take an if you have some sort of iowa experience even in some sort of starchy clinical setting. You'll probably still get some of those resonances of the rainforest especially if that's maybe where you're kind of original ancestors were from loudly won't work that ended in extended. Consciousness stuff is grounded in the near death. Experience science in the one thing. I like about that is we can get collect that data in a rather systematic way and look at it in a scientific way if you will and it comes back in it's all about spirit entities it's about Ancestors that are there in spirit form. That are waiting. It's about a for other people. It's about other entities that are dark and malevolent. And so i just don't like softening up on the edge of the question which is are there's other spirit entities in these extended consciousness rounds. And what do we mean by that when we say there are spirit entities because we hear this a lot and you'll hear this from science types that are one step away from really denying consciousness and saying consciousness is an illusion. And they'll say well you know maybe you're pattern by that and you'll see jesus if your parents were raised you. That's just speculation that that's a question we could ask and and research but we we. We can't just use that as the default answer. Of course it's just a cultural overlay. Well go and prove it. Go prove why people and other cultures see jesus and go prove up people in this culture see buddha or see Some indigenous thing. It's it's not as clean as people like to make it out and a gregory she. Sean my doctor greg. She sean as my go-to source for that. Yeah we'll spiritual out. I mean the real spiritual connection to some higher by battery space or higher data connection whatever flavor. That's coming in whether or not it's some know meditative experience that you're having or you've been hypnotized or eve undergone. Some sort of you know intake of a shamanic medicine. It's all spiritual. Of course. I mean it's all connecting you to some level of higher noces or higher consciousness and can't sit around this is there are other demons. I yes i mean. Certain things have happened. Where people i think people get what their framework what. It's like a lot of these things don't necessarily give you what you want to give you what you need. Sometimes people have had contact very trying experiences. And there's a specific reason. Why an element of their life. Why aren't you answering that wire. i'm just. I'm just curious. I'm not trying to jerk about this. Are there demonic. Entities are there and djelic entities. Because whenever i say that you're echoing it back to me as well. People can kind of in that blob of consciousness out there. Baking kind of see it one way or see another way an. I'm not saying that. I'm not saying there. There are or they're not. I'm saying is a fundamental question in this whole thing is are these these kind of free standing conscious beings like if your wife or whatever or your friend was standing there you would say that is a manifestation of consciousness in a certain way that i identify as an individual and a lot of people say well. There's a spirit being that his demonic that has manifested in a particular way and that is a free standing being. What do you think about that. I think that if you say. Is it a demonic entity or an angelic entity. I mean that's of course. Using a structured language that very religious base but sure i mean absolutely people can encounter anything that can be very trying and difficult and shadow based versus more light based so. There's there's specific i've never had any experiences that have been very extremely negative. All my experiences have been very expansive and and beneficial. So i guess you could call those more angelic but in terms of there's there's a specific Plant called salvia. debbie norm. I've heard that a lot of people's experiences on salvi are like use that sends you to kinda the gates of hell. It's maybe what is described as like an ordeal ritual where people go through this extremely negative trying experience and then it's almost like you're so glad you didn't die that you're so happy that you have what you have in your own personal life and allows for great introspection and an appreciation for what you it gives you a different sort of framework by having such a dark negative experience so a lot of this. All of this though is about you know coming to more no no yourself and having appreciation of what you have when you come back from a trying difficult experience and especially something that can be so expansive Has that benefit if you're if you're willing to to go through it. What do you think people are experiencing when the experience ancestors in this extended rome. Yeah that's an interesting question. I mean. I've never had any direct contact where i got like great grandparents as downloads or anything like that. You know it's all it's all that that's an interesting question i mean. I think that there is a dynamic where we can say that you know. You're getting insights from the ancestor spirits. And whether or not they're part of your immediate family or just somebody that you have some resonance with and there was some specific reason. Why in an expanded state that choose to contact with you in that regard whether or not it was saying like i somehow related to you or it's somehow a knowledge of a deeper connection with you had with some. That was somebody that was very special in your life like you know you lost a parent very early and now you're getting a an insight on somebody that left you early. I i know a gal that had a has a son. That's very special. Needs almost to the point where he can't communicate verbally and she had an experience where he basically was talking to her and allowed her to have such an unbelievable deeper connection with her son. That was so profound and life changing for her so that was kind of a beautiful example of somebody gets not necessarily what they think. They're going to get something that it finds a way to communicate with you in a very profound way to help kind of show you something that you didn't have the why c is he kind of a way to objectively look at yourself. Okay so asking the same in a different way. Do you believe she was connecting with that soul. That spirit of her special needs child. Do you believe that that person who felt the presence and the voice and sometimes the appearance of their grandfather grandmother. Do you believe that they were connecting with that consciousness beyond bodily death or do you think that was a manifestation of just their own kind of stuff. I think that when you're beyond the five senses you are connecting directly to like a higher version of this other person right like you could say there's the la- self. That's the avatar on the chessboard. And then there's your higher self it's kind of like our minds are branch of the larger divine mind and we'll get into this dynamic which can be of their big boob of like we're all one you know it's like you. And i are two separate corporeal entities but ultimately when we get into our higher cells. It's like we are all part in this higher divine mind so yes in that sense. She's probably connecting to the higher self of this person that's passed on which is very correlated with with the higher version of you as well. It's almost like you get direct data download from a higher level consciousness. State that you're both outside of your corporeal being in a in a direct communication. It's like you have direct connection to under okay. Great my grilling is almost over. What about you mean like you mean like alien separate outside of us type exactly. I mean it's kind of well reported and it always you know you answered the survey. And i just really appreciate you again folks. This is made. this is how i do. It doesn't mean that this guy isn't fantastic in his films. And i bought both of them. And they're very affordable ten bucks you can buy it download it. You can even share it with your friends for ten bucks. Well worth at great. I purchased both of mine. Courage you to do both them and the first one is fantastic. I can't believe you guys did that on the kind of budget you said 'cause cinema graphically you just look at and go. Wow this is a major hollywood thing but we're running out of time so let me hit you without one. I don't understand where people are coming from when we now have were imposed disclosure right so we have the videos with that unlike mainstream media practically. Yeah as if that was the ultimate measure of all that is a measure of is that. It's a rollout right that it society that tells you that that is now that has now reached the level of a psychological control operation. That's all that means given given that it's been revealed to that extent. I don't understand people who were still on the fence. About non human intelligence in particular in these extended rounds where e t seems to be playing around all the time and the whole I referenced this all the time people get tired of you. Look at m. k. Ultra and you look at those experiments. There's good reason to believe that. One of the primary driving forces for them even getting interested in mind control was that they had encountered non human intelligence. They understand that they understood that. The communication was telepathic. And they understood the power of that and they said we figure out what's going on in this kind of extended understanding of consciousness so i don't understand the e. t. fence sitters of which i kind of think you're one. The the dynamic that is most interesting to me is when people are actually out physically looking for craft or things are crop circles and thing. That's most interesting is when they do the thing. They meditate beforehand. Which to me tells me that they're a little bit more into the dynamic of realizing that it is not just purely a material thing i mean. Obviously i think that we do have intelligence is that are extraterrestrial or not. That are coming from some alternate place. And then they can you know you can have an orb materialize into the into the physical realm and create a crop circle or something like that. I what about people that claim to have been raped by the lizard. People is that outside. You're crazy line. I yeah. I've i've never had an experience nor have i spoken to anybody. That's done that. But i who knows it. It's probably the same thing is how you could identify that. There is such a valid thing as like a real xs. Them that can happen. And that's not just a thing. I think a lot of people are unfamiliar. Just unaware of the evidence for that in. Because i i like kind of jumping to the end game there because then it's easy for people go yeah raped by lizard. People got it. How crazy is deconstruct that. So you start deconstructed net. You go okay. What about the abduction. For non you go. Wow well there happens to be extremely well documented cases people who didn't even know each other meet and they were you on the show. I recognize you on the ship. Yes i m missing time. People come back with their clothes on in the put on the wrong way a spouse will notice that there there there are other spouse was gone for a missing period of time. Collectively people are seeing things together. And having dismissing time experience and then there's direct reports of people having These experiences there's implants. There's all the rest of this. There's a well documented. History of a lost a pregnancies that are unexplainable. There's a whole body of research like that so when you start putting the case together that way i mean i just interviewed a whitley strieber who i have the ultimate respect for. Oh yes sexually assaulted by. Aliens encounter that i had and what i reported in communion so whitley that known to be kind of a bullshitter and he's been around for a long time and he's documented stuff better than anybody. It's a blind spot that that again. We shouldn't allow to persist within this community. It's interested in ancient wisdom and theologians and stuff we have to factor that in or just turning our head away from something let alone to like. I said stress all. He saw aliens all his people saw. You know it's really weird. One to his cattle mutilations. That's a very strange one. But you know to add to this point one thing. that is a very thing to be cautious of. Is that if somebody has a the a lot of these things can be done in what's called a gestalt right like a group dynamic. Where you can have your. There's group meditation circles where people meditate together and have resonances with one another meditations. They seem to see the same things. There there's dynamics where people have They have some sort of iowa experience in groups and one thing that i have learned for sure is that if somebody is in that group that has a lot of life problems there are dynamics. Were yes you can have some energetic from somebody if you don't know much about them and they have a lot of damage your life trauma things can brush off onto other people in an experience. So i'm very wary of who i would sit with in a circle. I want to know that. They're very honorable. People that have done a lot of on themselves and have balanced and and lives of honorable behavior. And there's there's been a couple of dynamics where i could have sat with. Somebody who i news. Life was a mess and i wouldn't do that with i wouldn't do that because i know that there has been experiences or there has been times in the past where we've heard interactions where somebody's had something grasp onto them or jump onto them. That might have been baggage or negative energetics from another person so these are all things that are you know again should be part of a mature culture and society that teaches people about you. Know some of these things that we don't just have to kind of flimflam through or find by just negative Having having it happened the hard way right something that we can learn about through through people that have a lineage of transmission of of wisdom from elders. Teach these things about you. Know living in harmony with nature and then knowing what the plants are and how to use them knowing that there is a place obviously for modern medicine and very much has its pros and cons but then there's also a place for some of these medicinal practices that he'll through higher states and the pros and cons of those things on both sides of the aisle again folks. Our guest has been niles. Heckman i think you just gotta check out these films and all his work. But this particularly the series shamans of the global village. I we played a little bit of a clip at the beginning. But you really have to see it and if you're at all interested in this stuff you're gonna love it because it's it's a look into it at a level that i just haven't seen especially in a form where you can get through an hour and really have a lot to to think about in and explore so now's it's been great having you on what. What else can we tell people what what else is going on. When is episode three going happen. Yeah we were going to do it this year but of course cove a kind of a large dome for that so it's it's delayed probably until who knows when but the ideal way that we would do it is kind of do episodes three and three back to back cost effectively. Peo- peru is a little cliche these days in a little bit like i saw some onion title about like you know how tech ceos were going down to peru regularly nine namic but we probably will inevitably have a stop off in peru even though our spiritual journeys by no means and in peru sometimes people find themselves in peru so that might be a a episode three and four with san pedro in the sacred valley in iowa. But know who knows. I mean that's the thing about the show. Is that a lot of people if they're interested in knowing more about the lineage of envious jen's and seeing what these practices look like seeing what happens when with people that are doing this in a tribal context instead of just like you know your scuzzy chicago apartment. doing them in more of the lineage. With the tribe that we highlight this. That's that that's what this show can do is to show people actual context and to show highlight some of the importance of how these things have been use traditionally. So yeah thanks. It's a pleasure chatting to you man. I know that you've been doing this show for a while. And it's it's it's great to not only have heard back past episodes but also be a part of the show as well so always a pleasure. My good man. Thanks again to. Now's heckman for joining me to landscape toco. There's so many topics that we bounced around and covered. I really did give him a hard time. A bunch of topics but you know. He's strong guy he can stand up to it but the overall i just got a stress i mean. I don't wanna go some hard as question. 'cause man hats off to these guys in the work that they're doing i. It's just incredible. So what do you think about the prospects for anthea jains as a legitimate healing medicine in the way that we think about healing madison. Let me know your thoughts. Jump on over to the skeptical forum. Come over to the forum and got some cool shows coming up well. I don't know if they're cooler. I call up on these little tangents. I think they're interesting. But i have some shows coming up that i think you'll enjoy stay with me for all of that until next time. Take care bye for now.

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Entreprendre Pour Une Femme En Algrie

Khibra

07:15 min | 1 year ago

Entreprendre Pour Une Femme En Algrie

"Baby-killer hebrew dicussed. I will put podcast the humidity business. Entrepreneurship businesswoman will affirmed affair. While ahead and saw needle business leader is offer. Zia would help had a alabama as. I'm accounts malcolm finishing ted of will motto. Builder modified sale. None the recall. Verbal francie more behavioral jackie monocle. Willie happy sam. Really half sets film. Dr messenger helical aetna unhappy with our lens. Captured sale blood jesse's at beside Has yet family. I mean you can complete abimael business. Vizier heckman so sabathia buttock case. She will then equal himself. Yes mad on if he had more or less annulment t hem his father. The i gotta have been zits door. Stock on initial guy chemical rudeness loud. Beside door of musky. Laura manatee shaka fedorov mccaskey fish realism and have koraj. Lesbian have zeph recorded. look aglietta. Hadn't have who while antabuse defy fat maximum initial hostile soldiers. They're able help at the yada mustard entrepreneurship similarly interviewed. Your began before via so i'm amazon. Act on whether the problem antenne mahalo hurston. Duffy sherri how stem civil Not only still keep sitcom uncle masculine. Oklahoma deloof me now now miana so. It could located detailed upon a alison swan dictionary. You could mask. only civil. Classic reform law mission is only each was from me. Resumes because complex ramp was to get kim oi hush equally reputable university it. Ideally router repel fair imamoglu for sunday copy. Do feel good if more clip keeper who dizzy dot capone salons raimondo. These nine inauguration don't sell can't plan leopard tone l. new support panels me in ballymore yang here locker new laboratory dick. Tv teke mooney l. dave loop. It's not the case with the message. Deliver business boxing zephyr. They're getting i mean. Say that amel. Masha can message. Akzo will come see the full interview and the one it must kill. Were mean could your staffer. How was it that short of imam selling hoya couldn't will had liberal bloom touches them better gain whiskey weather. Hardly who will elliott remove by infamous. Hell bunker of likud harm. If he has meteors fealty at home mehalle been michael heated suji of manfredini. Sir represented kimmy holo feed got hublain. Look at the door of at all equal. Had below any matt salmonella zero out of realizes who did as vizier mandela had win and jimmy forrest realism to help bishop. Death decker headed for standing. Gweat feel less dome. Bayton darrow had no more feeble crumbly. Nfl gab. Balilan asthma like it is who latkes lillian nfl. I headed shufu. Shell petrol rookie fish. Semaj mera heroism usedom. We'll let loose selena remmel already. Observe look habit consumer added to talk the modeling the silver key fish image is exempt Mandal anyhow no man could omar omar other about a bit. How does area to turkish muslim. And jerry come to disabuse. We'll get immediate thought. American while on mayan writing delman lyndale swell up new permit. Do new push it on the all. Imagine whom you can you you can be what you can see on them for the fan canoeist. Some don't the all new comment new applic- ac- all exists music. Elmo kiss soto visual new to somebody see the amount befell. South dakota shows put vanilla medina's piano candle madame tequila kuskinka pal silky pushman moody's to more eilly iliadi media. Many of the fair monsieur permitted alcohol defensively bare fit loop rail. Megan paul massage. Who fed passive was awful pyramid to one fondue. Qua- could to to civil pasqua. Silica have the news on founded rather limits bouquets mantle had the susan most of the dishonorably nemo facing there for talk to who mom receiver tackling bill randomly. How bad and dick manager. Technology tech each with whom cosmo olenin declaration attended netted. He being led no not believe cool. She can get a with two. We couldn't the image editor here. Will that how an then their digital isn't too much kuna message will let unlimited Opportunity they don't have laffy recommending netted amount not h- las Vintage immemorial will that landfills agora. Shallow doesn't deserve coach. We have to look at these leak as mr kief. An other sandhu. We now know manages number an deal with the few no Doesn't jumeirah had never be non. Doom was federal gap. Randy's will the harada has initials ian orally the happy to hook for francie. Ulan will look for latvia for tomorrow. Matata numerals didn't salah a. Hey coon Jimmy we said libya Amcham onto temples. Nah they massage new. We don conditions it have boone on actual message across any dessert.

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Moroccan Jews and the Politics of Belonging with Alma Heckman

Jewish History Matters

1:04:41 hr | Last month

Moroccan Jews and the Politics of Belonging with Alma Heckman

"Welcome to jewish history matters. I'm jason los dig and today i'm joined by alma heckman to talk about twentieth century moroccan jews and especially moroccan jewish communism and its broader politics. Which is the focus of her. Recent book the sultans communists iraq and jews and the politics of belonging. Listen in as we dive into the history of moroccan jewish politics the development of zionism communism and nationalism in morocco and north africa at large. And why it's important to think through the choices and the agency. The jews in morocco and beyond have had in determining their fate and politics throughout the twentieth century alma. Rachel heckman is an assistant professor of history and the noise feld levin chair of holocaust studies at the university of california santa cruz. She's the author of the sultan's communists moroccan jews and the politics of belonging which was published by stanford university press in two thousand twenty one. Thanks so much for listening to our conversation. I'm so glad to be able to welcome almo- onto the podcast to talk about important issues about moroccan jewelry. North african jewish history at large and the power of politics in modern jewish life. Hi alma thank you so much for joining me on the podcast. Thanks so much for having me. I was just thrilled to get my hands on. Your book is just such a phenomenal topic. Really really exciting Set of issues. And i'm glad that we get a chance to talk about so much one of the things that i think that we can maybe start out with israeli really. Just what is the story here. Where you're writing this book about what you call the sultan's communists and but it's really about is about the place of jews in the changing political and cultural environment of morocco over the course of the twentieth century. What does this mean. How do we look at jews in morocco from the early twentieth century. Going forward from there. And what is the role of jews in the changing politics of morocco in the region the jumping off points really that so many histories jews in morocco limit their story to between you know sometime in the late nineteenth century to nineteen fifty six when morocco gets independence and then the vast majority of moroccan jews leave morocco for the most part they go to israel all they also go to france. They go to canada. They go to other parts of the world but there have not been so many studies about jewish political involvement in morocco. At all jews were much more treated as passive subjects as figures that are buffeted by the winds of colonialism by zionism by moroccan national politics without too much investigation in their own involvement in the politics of the nation state as the nation state developed. So that is what. I'm really interested in the book was actually just uncovering that story to begin with The tax that jews were actually politically involved in morocco and that jews were invested in moroccan national politics from an early date and continued to be involved in moroccan national politics after the traditional end points of nineteen fifty six as well so that was the primary concern that i had was showing the track. There is a political jewish history. Here that had not been covered previously. I mean i think it's important here that you're emphasizing the involvement of jews in the wider cultural and political context of morocco. Right you're not saying you know and looking at jews morocco as being divorced from was taking place around them. But you're arguing. The jews are inherently invested in and involved in the politics of morocco both before moroccan independence and also afterwards in when most especially most popular narratives of thinking about moroccan jews emphasizes the immigration are in the process of immigration of jews Leaving morocco especially for the state of israel. Why is it important for you to tell this. Kind of story both in terms of thinking about jews and morocco as part of the political landscape and also embedding jews morocco very deeply in their context and understanding. That is not just a story of jews leaving the country and going somewhere else. In the way i came upon the story was through meeting individuals that cared very deeply about jewish life in morocco and advancing. An argument that jewishness moroccan nests were somehow mutually constituent in the nation. And you see that argument till today Rare as the week where you can see where without a newspaper talking about something about jewish history in morocco or something you're talking about jewish history markets very popular subject in morocco. Thought figure that sparked the whole project is a man named simone levy. Who was a communist jew. He ran the museum from rockin. Jewish heritage foundation for moroccan jewish heritage casablanca and before it began the project right as full brighter before i was even in grad school. I was just volunteering at this museum. And i'd never heard of moroccan jewish patriotism And i hadn't read the handful of books. There are about jewish patriotism in middle eastern and north african countries in other contexts. And so when i met this figure of similar levy who was so adamantly patriotic at hedge expressed his patriotism through the moroccan communist party it was like a revelation and i spent many months interviewing him and talking with him discovering that there was in fact the story that i had not been acquainted with before they had not heard about before and he really became the jumping off point and i wondered how many other people were like him and so everything that he did including founding. This museum in casablanca was in the service of making an argument about the essential moroccan nests of jews in morocco. That there was much more in common between moroccan. Jews moroccan muslims than moroccan jews. Say and french jews or something like that. That above all the moroccan had to be underscored and that was an argument that i hadn't heard prior to meeting sima that really set me on this investigative. Pass the way us frame. That is actually really important that you said that the sense that moroccan jews had more in common with moroccan muslims in the would necessarily for instance with french jews inasmuch as we think about the french colonial influence on morocco. You know and this is a story that runs across north africa. Broadly speaking you know about the relationship between jews and different places and french jews. How does this fit into the broader history of jews in morocco and the twentieth century history of moroccan nationalism and brockton independence will the first thing i should say. Is that moroccan. Jewish communists were a tiny minority of a minority. They are in no way representative of moroccan jews as a whole Met at any part of their history. Most moroccan jews were largely apolitical and looking to sort of keep out of the political limelight. They were walking tight rope trying to show their loyalty both to the sultan he became king after independence and to the french colonial administration until it disappeared in nineteen fifty six. They didn't really wanna rock the political boat. So the people that i write about in this book are not representative of moroccan jews writ large however. They do intersect with the wider moroccan jewish community. And they spend a lot of their time trying to persuade particularly in the nineteen fifties in nineteen sixty. They spent a lot of their time trying to persuade. Moroccan jews to become more politically involved and to sign up for national liberation project. But one thing that simone levy said was when i interviewed him for the first time he said there were a few forces working over moroccan. Jews that put them at a remove from moroccan. Muslims and those forces were colonialism. The leonsis gandhi geneva. Sal which i can talk about in a second and zionism and that there were these three sort of exhaustiveness forces that separated moroccan jews from rockin. Muslims that dated from the mid nineteenth century onward the goals of the onions. Were to preparer jews wherever they were four citizenship in their home countries however the way in which they did. This was a little bit. Strange to our modern years was by educating them in french not in their native languages of the places where they lived teaching them french history french geography french poetry. They had a smattering of hebrew. But not very much a smattering of religious education. But not very much. It was largely a secular school system at any rate People like steven levy and others credited the audience with serving as a wedge between jews and moroccan muslims creating a payroll educational citizenship formation. Track that would distinguish the ones from the others So there's that colonialism. For the french colonial policy in morocco and elsewhere in north africa largely privileged jews over muslims in a kind of colonial subject hierarchy. It wasn't like in algeria where french citizenship was granted to jews and that didn't happen wholesale in morocco. They still occupied relatively more privileged wrong. In the colonial political ladder relit vis-a-vis muslims in then zionism shimon levy blamed for causing moroccan jews to dream of looking elsewhere rather than investing in their home country. Part of what you're talking about here. Is this tension over. How did use fit into the society into what different groups of jews feel themselves to belong to. Morocco is the term that using the title of the politics of belonging and the different ways. In which as you've just highlighted that there are different factors that are causing a wedge. You know or a sense of difference between jews and jewish neighbors right right well. I use belonging in a couple of different ways. One of them is the title itself. The sultans communists. It's possessive. the it comes from. It's from daniels traitors. Book title the salted zoo a book that he published about in early nineteenth century jewish merchants. Who acted as a political envoy between the moroccan state and the british for the most part as a representative of the moroccan state schrader really talks about the phenomenon of jews working as representatives of the moroccan state as merchants as diplomats and that they both represented the state and they belong to the states. There's this possessive relationship. The sultan owns the due to some degree. That's the sultans jew the jew that belongs to the sultan who represents the state and that's one of the dynamics that i wanted to riff off of for the salton communists right that these jewish figures that i write about even though in some times they form political opposition to the king especially in the nineteen sixties the nineteen seventies although they have differences among them about their strategies for shaping a future vision of morocco and the jewish place within that future morocco. They still are loyal ultimately to the moroccans state. If they disagree with the king they are very very loyal to the institutions of morocco. And the idea of future vision of morocco to which they both belong in the possesses sense and feel a sense of political belonging as national moroccans. And they're seeking a place for jews as belonging to the states as sort of emancipated subjects as full entitled moroccan national citizens but also they serve as representatives of the sultan who becomes the king after independence in some of the people that i write about including simone levy became ultimately in the nineteen. Nineties is a little bit later but they became these emblems of the moroccan states tolerance quote unquote famed tolerance towards religious minorities as a distinguishing factor in the region. Part of what. You're doing here as you mentioned before is you're telling the story of a minority of a minority. What does this tell us in kind of a big picture way by looking at such a small group about bigger issues and i say this in light also the fact that that when i often think about questions about why jewish history matters on a broader scale. It's like what are the ways which we can look at a people that on a global scale has always been small in number can tell us about big picture issues in large questions. What is it about this minority of a minority that allows you to plumb the depths of thinking about the nature of moroccan history the development of jewish history in north africa. Probably speaking some of it has to do is what i was just talking about. Some of these figures becoming really prominent representatives of morocco abroad. Despite the fact that they're not representative of most moroccan jews but they become very famous become very prominence. So in addition to seymour levy edmund. I'm runnin malay is another one of figures. I spend a lot of time writing about. He eventually found fame as a novelist. start writing his first novel until he was in his sixties Living in self-imposed exile in paris because he was disenchanted with the post independence moroccan state. But he wrote the sort of semi-autobiographical novels that really wrote about were jewish politics that wrote about out-migration that wrote about rural moroccan versus urban moroccan. Jews and he created these sort of pastiche characters that were trying to represent Broader trends in moroccan jewish history. So there's that components abraham serfaty became arguably the most famous or aachen jew in the international stage. He was one of the longest serving political prisoners in the world when he was finally released in the early nineteen nineties. He had had a rupture with Sumo levy in with alanna with others in the communist party and then was imprisoned for about eighteen years before finally being released on the grounds that he was not actually moroccan citizens who could be chucked off to france But the point is these are all minority figures narrow all very distinct in their own way disagreed with each other in some fairly prominent ways but they became the most famous of moroccan jews abroad. So that's one reason to focus on them and how they became these kinds of ambassadors of the moroccan state willingly or otherwise these representatives of the moroccan and stayed in how it treated its jewish minority and other intervals. In earlier eras. There were different times. Where jewish membership of the moroccan communist party was higher or lower in the immediate aftermath of the second world war for example there was a real spike in membership among jews in the rock and communist party popular in the inter-war period. I argue moroccan. Communist party was just one of a number of popular front organizations that were very popular among jews and non jews that sought to stem the growth of fascism in morocco and stem the tide of growth fascist propaganda in morocco so minority of a minority just like jewish history. Writ large minority minority of a minority can really shed light on some of the trends that affect the majority that can shed light on otherwise included subjects in broader historical settings and sometimes that minority is a very prominence minority and has a lot to say because of that prominence. So can you say a bit more than about the bigger trends looking at you know jewish communists in morocco. Help us to think. About for instance in the history of jews in under the vichy regime or jews in the nineteen fifties and beyond as. Well you know. How is it that this small minority than illuminates the bigger picture right. So in the vichy period is the period that is getting increasing scholarly attention for good reason. It's a fascinating period when the vichy french fascist governments. I mean many people are familiar with. That's the government in the main french. Hexagon south of france but There have been recent publications that talk much more about the colonial world and how the colonial world fared under vichy france including jews of north africa. The communist party was officially outlawed. Just before actually. The vichy period was outlawed in morocco. In nineteen thirty nine because of its supposed subversive activities so is actually outlawed even before the vichy regime came to power but because of the inter war activities of the moroccan communist party because it had been aligned with other popular front organizations including the international league against anti-semitism which was another paris based organization that was widespread in north africa. It also was aligned with the leaker as it's called the internationally against anti-semitism. The moroccan communist party became Sort of natural progression politically for those jews. During the inter war period who were opposed to creeping fascist rule that continued into the vichy period. Even when the communist party became illegal and had to operate underground another Of communist politics during the period was that there were a series of labor camps across morocco algeria as well as tunisia that the government operated one of the prime groups that were in turned in those camps were communist volunteers in the spanish civil war. Many of them had kruger's just from spain into morocco in nineteen thirty nine at the end of the spanish civil war and they became enemies of the french. Stay the vichy state in particular. They were in turned in these forced labor camps and prison camps across morocco algeria. Many of them were very instrumental. Formative -ly for the communism of a lots of the north african jews that ran across abraham serfaty for example talked about having spanish communist. Neighbors talking with them about ideology and learning from them and that motivating him into the communist party and he also worked on the docks for for the americans just after operation torch in the landings so sites vichy period as really formative in his own political activism. So quite a number of these people cite the she period as time when all that they had been taught about french republicanism about french assimilation. About the place of jews in a french political entity became completely undermined with the installation of antisemitic legislation. And so jews had a few different choices as a result of that they could either see the vichy period as a kind of aberation a blip in a wider screen of french involvement in jewish history. And many did see it that way were they could see it. As a total betrayal of everything that the french state that the the also been inculcated among them and so rejected then the french state and went to instead embrace communism or zionism. This leads us also to the question of jewish politics in morocco in the nineteen fifties and beyond especially post nineteen forty eight following the establishment of the state of israel. Post nineteen fifty six following moroccan independence. You how's it looking. At these moroccan jewish communists helps us to understand the kinds of political and social personal choices. That people were making in this time period in the postwar era. When you see over the course of a number of years i wanna see the. The vast majority eventually moroccan jewelry leaving from the country and immigrating to israel. And you here are looking very much as you said like. A minority of a minority of people who remain behind a morocco still has significant jewish population in one of the largest jewish populations in the middle east outside of israel but ultimately here. You're looking at people who stayed when so many people were leaving. What is this then. Tell us altogether about the path of moroccan jews on a large scale and also about those jews who remained in morocco post independence. Well some of the people. I mean they were operating toward a vision of morocco. That could be rather than the morocco that actually existed right in front of them so they were very idealistic about the place of jews in future morocco. How jewish life could operate in future morocco. What the state would look like. I mean they condemned the moments of anti-semitism and violence that took place in morocco in the nineteen forties fifties largely surrounding events around israel and palestine. That were these flare ups about violence than Anti-zionism that verged on anti-semitism in morocco and elsewhere in the middle east north africa and so they condemned those moments but they also took a very harsh line toward the majority of moroccan. Jews saying that. Most moroccan jews were not involved enough in the national political movements that they were not committed enough patriotically so they spent a lot of time issuing propaganda directed at moroccan jews calling on them to become more involved which largely fell on deaf ears. A lot of these figures were representative of political liabilities for the wider moroccan jewish community. They rocked the boat. They could get somebody in trouble with the french authorities. They were not part of a majority political party. either right. The communist party was relatively small relative to other national liberation organizations that were operational at the time and suffice it to say the communist party was much more open universalist in its vision of moroccan nece than other national liberation groups in morocco. Most moroccan jews did not heed the call of moroccan jewish communists. Most of them were rather alienated by. What the moroccan jewish communists called for and said and many were very understandably nervous when there were deaths of jews in woosh dorada in nineteen forty eight when there were boycotts of jewish businesses in the early nineteen fifties in that persisted until later into the nineteen fifties nineteen sixties. There was reason for them to be to be nervous. Nineteen sixty one was a terrible year for moroccan jewish life in the sense that the king mohammed v died suddenly had been very popular among moroccan. Jews he died under a relatively minor operation unexpectedly. The egyptian pan-arab nationalist president gamal abdolnasser visited casablanca and this resulted in violence against jews in in casablanca elsewhere and a zionist migration illegal migration ship known as the pisces sank which brought big scandal into morocco. As well in nineteen sixty one. I'm this is after independence right. There was this sort of honeymoon period after independence where where people were more optimistic. But in the early nineteen sixties again. We see a growth in anti zionism verging anti-semitism and growth of political instability in morocco. That made us very nervous. And that nervousness persisted into the nineteen sixties with conflagrations with palestine in israel that ended up taking shape in in a number of alarming ways chore jews in morocco whereas the communists i mean they acknowledged those threats but they were largely dismissive and seemed to take the approach that jews should ignore those threats and instead buckled down and they just hadn't proven their patriotism in their moroccan nece enough. That was their problem. One of the things that you've highlighted here is the way in which jews. Morocco had a series of different options for what kind of politics. What kind of cultural frame or framework that. They wanted to identify themselves with or participate in you mentioned for instance the audience and the the french colonial cultural context of trying essentially to inculcate jews in morocco and elsewhere in the middle east and north africa into a francophone cultural sphere. Also the question of communism moroccan nationalism not even to mention zionism jewish nationalism. So how is it. The jews in morocco navigated this kind of process of thinking about where it was that they belonged how they thought about themselves and their aspirations for the future and so on and so forth and ultimately the ways in which you know for your group of people. Communism became the political direction in which the moved. Why is it that these different options are significant for the way in which we think about the experiences of jews in morocco. In this timeframe. Yeah so there. Were three prevailing political choices that moroccan jews faced and this is true also of algerian jews and tunisian jews and to a greater or lesser extent. It's also true. I mean with some modifications thinking about jews of egypt in iraq. It's really a characteristic of jewish political life across the middle east and north africa from the late nineteenth century into the twentieth century where there are a few prevailing. But i'll stick to morocco for the sake of this conversation but for the moroccan jews. The 'alliance were represented a certain embrace of french republican ideals of citizenship A certain french emancipation est idea The place of jews in the nation states that jews should be full participating citizens. That religion should be relegated to the private sphere whereas publicly one was french in the case of the french emancipation as that's mapped onto morocco than what would be moroccan. So that was the 'alliance model sort of announces him. I call it Orleans is others have called it the second one zionism right was a mode of thinking about jewishness fat surpassed the moroccan nation state that saw moroccan jews as jews. First and foremost Saw them as belonging to a community of jews that extended across many different geographic terrains. Although i should say. There's quite a lot of variety of kinds of zionism among moroccan jews. As well i mean for many. It was very kind of cultural movements rather than any of them expressing any particular intention to leave morocco. Moved to israel depends on the time period. We're talking about or to the mandates or the issue whichever term we're talking about in. Communism was the primary mode for jews. Who were interested in participating in national liberation politics to do so. There were other national liberation movements. That famously mystic ned. which means independence in arabic. That was the most prominent national liberation organization in morocco. There were a few about to democracy exempt Pdi that were other movements but for the most part the moroccan communist party really captured most moroccan jews interested in participating in the national liberation movement. Because of its very universalist understanding of moroccan whereas these other national movements largely had a sort of muslim basis to their understanding of moroccan ness of the communist party did not new as much more universalist and also because it had been operating. In the inter-war period doesn't anti fascist organization drew in a lot of jews in a way that the others did not and those all developed evolved in their own way in response to things like two world wars on the growing national independence movement to violence in in palestine in israel. They're not stable entities over the twentieth century. The zionism alliances among communism represent the three main trajectories of saginaw moroccan jewish communists of moroccan jews in the twentieth century. One way to continue. This line of thinking is then. How was it that. The story of the moroccan jewish communists and the part that plays in the broader cultural development of moroccan jews in morocco. In general in what does it. Illuminate you know are thinking about these three issues on a bigger scale right. The question of zionism the question of communism and nationalism And the question. Also of the audience politics these are three major themes as you mentioned can be seen tracing throughout the middle east and north africa in this time period but also beyond it whether we're thinking about eastern europe whether we're thinking about the states whether we're thinking about any other region of the world these three forces you know without oversimplifying it really represents the the manifold choices. The jews had before them to participate in different kinds of political movements cultural trajectories. And so by looking at the sultan's communists does that. Illuminate our broader understanding of the history of zionism and jewish nationalism in the history of jews and communism broadly speaking you know the history of jews and the politics of citizenship in different places around the world. Yeah well it's funny. You should mention that. Because i'm working on an edited volume at the moment. With my co editors nathaniel. Deutsch tony michaels. And we are. We have been for several years working on this edited volume investing in question investigating the question of jews and the left in a holistic way. In where what is there there. Is there something that we can say about jews in poland or lithuania that has something in common with jewish leftist movements in morocco or iraq or in argentina or in south africa or egypt's right in all of these different places we see jews being drawn to the left in disproportionate numbers and the question is. Can we identify any sort of reasons. Why is there anything. Jewish -ly connected to those reasons why we're working on the introduction at the moment so this is at the top of my mind but again the question of political belonging is central to this idea in all of these contexts. Whether we're talking about late nineteenth century russian jews or nineteen sixties. Moroccan jews iraqi. Jews there is the central question of. What is the place of the jew in the state however that state is looking at that time period what is the ideal vision of jews in that state and for many jews the answer comes through joining a leftist organization around the world. Most jews were not involved in leftist politics. Most jews were not involved politically in any of these movements. So no matter where we're looking. It's a minority movement of jews in the left that seek to answer modern iterations for transforming iterations of the so-called jewish question as it's mapped onto colonial questions as it's maps on to cold war questions as it's mapped onto all of these different questions across the twentieth century the left provides an aspirational answer for jews. In all of these different settings for political belonging into finding space for jews in one political context or another so political belonging is very much at the heart of it. And i think moroccan jews there. That's just one example of a much wider story of jews seeking to find political belonging in a number of different contexts. I'll be this time. It's decolonizing context. And that's something that tends to be more particular to the middle east north africa than it is to eastern or central europe. Thinking about zionism means. I-in isn't takes different shapes of course just as the left takes different shapes but jewish. Anti zionism is something that has gone under appreciated than the story of moroccan jewish communists. They saw joining zionist organization as a betrayal of moroccan nationalism. And that's true for jewish leftists in a number of different contexts in the middle east north africa specifically that zionism representative betrayal of the nation state. Because you you have to remember that. In nationalist formations across the middle east and north africa solidarity with palestine was a key component of saint moroccan nationalism or iraqi nationals of egyptian nationalism et cetera. So to prove one's nationalist bonafides one would have to show solidarity with the palestinian movement as well even though it's a minority of a minority. It certainly speaks to zionism as well as speaks these broader questions of the place of jews in modern nation states. Above all i mean all of these questions sort of deal with these permutations of the jewish question of what is the place of jews in this nation states. not only should. They be emancipated but once they have been emancipated. What kind of role they play in. That state is part of what you're seeing here the way in which these kinds of issues go beyond the specific historical context of different places where we might usually tend to think about for instance as you put it the jewish question. Yeah definitely i mean. The jewish question is something that originates in europe but then spreads elsewhere through european colonialism specifically in the middle east north africa informs jewish oneal policy specifically french north africa but other iterations of what is the place of jews politically we see arising in lots of these different contracts and they have different answers in sometimes. The answers don't have to do with jewishness one of the cases that a couple of scholars shane. Mendel sitter writing about is about jewish involvement in anti-apartheid activism and south africa. Right i mean that kind of leftist. Radicalism isn't so much about making space for jews in the national political scene but demonstrating belonging to a future idealized version of nation state in which apartheid is abolished. so it's not always about jewish belonging but about belonging to an idealized version of state. One of the things to consider here is that when we talk about quote unquote the jewish question. You know in in historical context of course it manifested itself in different ways in different places but one of the important aspects of this entire component of monitoring history is that there were multiple questions plural right. The one can talk about that are being asked from different. Perspectives different points of view on the most basic level the question from the perspective of the state from the perspective of the political leaders of the state about the place of jews in the emerging new politics in whatever form that happened to take the place the jews would have within that. There's also the question from the perspective of jews of how they saw themselves within the changing societies in which they lived as part of what is interesting here. Is that you in looking at the particular. Moroccan context are able to help us think through both aspects of this in the way in which jews in morocco. You know some of them. Anyway saw themselves within the transforming moroccan society over the course of the twentieth century and also the ways in which the moroccan state jews as being part of it and you emphasize for instance you know the the ways in which this history of moroccan jewish communists and this particular cohort Itself has been part of the shaping of public narratives about the place of jews in moroccan history in society on the one hand. A kind of coma venezia you know narrative of living together in morocco. In at the same time. You know you've talked about you. Know the figura simone levy and you know your experience encountering him in the museum at the very starting point of you're about the set of issues in where you see figures within a contemporary moroccan society a moroccan jews in morocco articulating a sense of belonging in morocco which is very much a part of this ongoing question about how jews in different places feel themselves to be a part of the societies in which they live and when you look at history and you think about the different aspects of it. There's the question of what does it teach us about big issues but it's also about. How's this history been used and put to use by people with morocco who want to look to this group of moroccan jewish communists in order to structure their own hands or from the point. If you've state or the point of view of jews of thinking about this relationship over the course of history glad you brought up the term cone events yet because it's absolutely central this Yeah refers classically to this sort of golden age romanticize image of jews in medieval muslim spain sort of living together harmoniously. Even though you dig very far if you are acquainted with history you know that it's much more complicated than that. There are some time periods in which jews are doing splendidly under muslim rule in medieval spain. There are times where they actually do better under christian rule. They do under muslim rule in medieval spain. Right so it's not such a tidy history in that sense but morocco positions itself as one of the heirs to on the loose to the legacy of all of the lose to the events narrative to whistle spain and its treatment of jews in morocco. In many of its historical publications in contemporary publications this was an argument marshaled. During the struggle for independence saying we welcomed jews in fourteen ninety. Two and morocco is always opened. Its doors to jews in therefore morocco is a you know this wonderful home in always been very tolerant of jews and the moroccan jewish communists that i write about also embrace that narrative to a large extent. Demo- levy called tigerish or living together. You preferred in arabic term to convincing eric. Calderwood and isabel roar have both written about the kundi vents narrative from different standpoints from the spanish imperial standpoint from northern Moroccan jewish standpoints. Eric calderwood's book is colonial on the loose in talks quite a bit about the quote romanticize confidence yeah narrative and that narrative is very strong today in morocco. Morocco is very proud of still having a jewish minority living in morocco. The jewish tourism is a prominent part of morocco's touristic economy. You see in morocco. Meaning the city of fez in particular. There are a number of jewish unesco world heritage sites jewish cemeteries and synagogues are very well marked across the country. They're very very prominence in so the convinced. Narrative is one in which the communists participate in which we see this idealized for of rocco take shape and the states very much benefits from the co events narrative. Even when it's challenged writes in two thousand three there was a set of bombings in casablanca that included jewish cultural centers in casablanca than you know the king said you know. No this is basically the land of codependency. A- we have the legacy of land loosely. This is not morocco shing against any sort of extremist version of morocco. That wouldn't have a place for jews in so are you trying to undermine this popular narrative to some extent or complicated in some way in. What is the connection between your scholarship and the very public role that this history of jews in morocco has taken over the past few generations. Certainly seek to complicate it. There are grains of truth. Right were jews did do relatively well and there. There was this heritage of land. Loose large numbers of jews from medieval spain did go to morocco suited large numbers of muslims. From that he will stay go to morocco also until geria- to tunisia and so there is that very concrete history but there's also the more complicated history that some of the worst periods of persecution that jews faced in medieval spain was under medieval moroccan. Dynasties that ruled over the iberian peninsula. That's also true. And you know it's also more complicated than what simone levy says right when you said that. The colonialism and zionism workover moroccan jews. That's what explains the separation between moroccan. Jews moroccan muslims. And that's what explains the departure of you know. Two hundred fifty thousand. Approximately moroccan jews over the span of a few decades is more complicated than that. I mean there was the mainly there was anti semitic activity in morocco and yes is largely inspired by the conflict in israel and palestine. But we can't ignore it. It's not just because of zionism. It's because people were receptive to those arguments also on the grounds and it's important to take note of the adamy people don't leave just out of a vacuum like that. There were real reasons to be anxious to be nervous and want to seek stability in other places so i do seek to undermine that because i mean the kobe events the narrative is just way too simplistic. It's too simplistic to describe medieval spain and it's too simplistic to describe contemporary morocco or any part of moroccan history because there as we know as historians that there's no way that such a sort of rosy-tinted vision can encapsulate all of this complexity certainly whenever history is being put to use in the context of politics. We always know that there has to be something more complicated than whatever stories being told right. Exactly it's not. Everything was rosy until colonialism zionism. Another aspect to think about here especially as we start to think about kind of where. This area of research fits in to the broader thinking about big picture issues in the historiographer in the not just in in the literature but in the broader thinking about jewish history and also middle eastern and north african history. It has these very close parallels with For instance laura dern fell's work on The jews of iran. One of the things that really struck me. There was the ways in which many people in the public. And you know people who aren't as familiar with the history might think about the period of these histories whether we're talking about jews. In morocco jews in iran these are of course at polar opposites geographically of the middle east and north africa but ultimately that we see this sort of historical trajectory very simplistic one of political change. And then emmigration in connection with that. And i think that part of what you're doing here which is similar to what we did in his book and we. We also talked about this on the podcast as well is uncovering the continuing history of jews in morocco. In the time period that many people think of history is kind of over so to speak very much is not yet another quietly or and i have talked quite a lot about The similarities it's really uncanny the similarities particularly in period ization in some of the prominent figures between our books said even though as you say they are taking place at the at the extreme ends of the middle east and north africa. How's it help us to think through the continuing history of jews morocco. Which is to say that you know is not just a simple story of jews. You know left for israel post nineteen forty eight post nineteen fifty-six that jews are still there this history is it's not over. It's not a post mortem. Yeah no. I mean it's true. I mean jewish. History is definitely not over in rocco. Iran has a much larger jewish population Then morocco does now in morocco. they've been saying the same estimates of about two thousand jews for like the last ten years so it's hard to say how many jews are actually remaining living as fulltime residents in morocco but there is quite a lot of back and forth people going between israel and morocco or france and morocco There's quite a lot of movements with the normalization of ties between morocco and israel That kind of fluid movements is only going to increase As well but there are still plenty of jews in morocco. That are very proud of moroccan jewish history. On largely they live in custom blanca with pockets. Living elsewhere like cash and says in some tanger- as well but no moroccan jewish history didn't end in nineteen fifty six with independence didn't end with this mass migration and there's a new chapter of it starting now. Where a lot of this quite. A lot of tourism of israelis of moroccan descent visiting morocco. That's been going on since the nineteen eighties. That's only increasing. Ullevi has a wonderful book called return to casablanca where he writes as an anthropologist. But as amer jew born in morocco but than lived in israel with his family. What is it like to return to rocco's part of these tour groups so that is yet another continuing chapter of this kind of story. And as i said earlier right rare is the week where a newspaper some newspaper or another morocco dozen print a story about jewish history and there have been the main history magazine called men. Meeting time in. Morocco is sold at train station kiosks. They have dedicated multiple issues to jewish history And they often have features about jewish pass in morocco in their pages as well. I recently participated in a edited volume from muhammed sank. Universities one of the most prestigious universities in morocco dedicated to a moroccan scholar named mohammad can be who's devoted his career to studying moroccan jewish history. So they're all around the world that were that have been mentored by him or who have been inspired by his work contributing different pieces to this volume. So i mean they're interested studying hebrew at different institutions in morocco in alloway university at prestigious english language speaking university in morocco. There's something called the mimouna club predominantly. It's muslims who are part of a club That settling named for the new moon holiday. A holiday just after passover in morocco that celebrates jewish muslim For lack of a better word Where jews muslims get together and eat bread and other ritual items like really nice pancakes things like that. So there are all. These different organizations across. Morocco dedicated to jewish history. Jewish life That are flourishing that have a lot of public interest is a book about politics right jews involvement in moroccan politics and kind of the political life of jews but it begins with this tongue in cheek quotation quote. Jews don't do politics and you're very quick to point out that the you know the figure who is saying this is not being totally serious about it because obviously jews are political and you are showing this throughout the entire book in the ways in which jews are involved in politics in many different ways. I think one of the big things that this book is trying to do is to undermine the notion that jews are apolitical in the moroccan context. Which as you pointed out. I think earlier in our conversation. There was a large and significant portion of the moroccan jewish population. That was not involved in politics right. You're saying that that we need to understand the jews or jewish individuals as it were As people who also do politics so what does it mean for jews to quote unquote do and why is it. So important to push back against the notion that jews were a political in the moroccan context and beyond yeah well the moroccan contexts you see this infringe security reports from the colonial administration. You see this 'alliance reports many other jewish sort of organization reports that the interest was in keeping jews out of the political limelight trying. He jews under control. Heaping jews from being too Politically active Because that could only reflect poorly on the jewish community. You know late show that maybe they were not sufficiently loyal to the french protectorate authorities or to the sultan or whatever it was the idea was to keep them as a sort of non troublemaking population. But the point is there. Were all these jewish troublemakers in political figures despite the intentions of organizations like the The intentions of not just the young of the french colonial and the spanish colonial administration didn't even talk gulf of difference between what's going on in spanish colonial morocco in the north in french colonial morocco. The name kind of heartlands of the states for many jews in many jewish communal leaders also had a vested interest in keeping jews a political again trying to keep them from rocking any sort of political boats but for the people that i write about if they are to attain the idealized moroccan state if they are to rid the country of fascism etc then they need to become involved politically and work toward that future morocco. What you've highlighted here. Some of the ways in which jewish organizations jewish institutions had a vested interest in trying to portray the jews as being separate from the politics of moroccan nationalism. Especially under the french. But why is it so important then for us to understand that this was not really accurate and the jews actually were involved in politics in various forms of. Why is it so important for us to look at jews as being intimately involved in the politics of morocco and beyond as well. Why is it important for us to say jews do politics and we need to look at jewish through through political ones. Yeah there are a number of different reasons but primarily when As we touched on earlier most popular narratives of jews in the middle east north. Africa don't include the story of jewish political activism with a few exceptions mean joe biden's written about in egypt's raggi not has written about egypt. Leo wrote about it in stern feld wrote about iran or e boscq has written about it in iraq. Amelia rauluni writes about it in tunisia. Pills johnny rights voted jerry. Other sort of a handful of people that have written about jewish political involvement in the middle east and north africa but so many popular narratives construct jews as passive subjects as people that just sort of particularly from the middle east north africa as subjects. That were just sort of swept up and Migrated on mass in the nineteen fifties nineteen sixties without so much political agency behind them or without revealing the political history behind them without acknowledging that many of these jews even if they did leave were deeply patriotic. We're committed to national liberation movements in their home country sometimes even if they did end up leaving and that's a very important node of the story to think about it complicates our understanding of migration to israel and other parts of the world at complicates our understanding fundamentally jewish political belonging in a sense of self belonging in the middle east and north africa. That's not just us apart in some sense that rather really entrenched visions of political participation in those areas. As you've pointed out here this is a story which is being told in a number of middle eastern and north african contexts and part of the question that we might need to ask is. Why is it that we see yourself along with many other. Great scholars unearthing kind of a similar story in different places part of the story. Here i think is that everybody's kind of pushing back against a certain kind of zionist historical narrative of the sense of jews in the diaspora as this passive group that lacks political agency. Which only comes about with the rise of the state of israel. That's the kind of the zionist telling of the story of jewish history. Broadly speaking Which as we know is completely over-simplified and doesn't really reflect what was going on in so many different ways. But i think part of what is happening here is the way in which there's this public discourse sort of infused with a zionist undertone that jews in the diaspora and especially in places like north africa and the middle east. Were these passive subjects and not politically active in anyway because it was quote unquote impossible in zayas term of mind to think of it in another way right right exactly exactly. Right is pushing back against this idea. That engine many of these people were anti zionists right. that's also impossible according to the zionist narrative. Right i mean. People like the people i write about in. Morocco saw leaving for israel as a betrayal of moroccan nationalism. And betrayal of moroccan jewishness and same thing for other parts of the region that leaving for israel was not part of the national agenda was not part of local rock and or egyptian and iraqi jewish belonging. In that case the other half of this story was just thinking about design store. Coal perspective is also about the experiences of jews from middle east north africa. Uh when they arrive. In israel in the fifties and sixties this question of political agency of moroccan jews iraqi jews you know etcetera etcetera in the state of israel. I think that there's a lot to be said here. Also about the way in which you know. For instance moroccan jews in israel also sought to have political agency in the state of israel ultimately combing eventually with the rise of likud in the seventies. Right right. I mean there've been a lot of good scholarship about this brian roby's Book the arabs rocky rebellion or eat baskin's impossible exodus Among others dario coli has been writing about this. There are a few different scholars writing about the trajectory of ms rocky politics in israel and their linkages to places where they came from two political formations where they came from and how they did not cut ties absolutely these things are formative from their backgrounds previously in that they manifest so yet not only the rise of the who'd but also the israeli black panthers Other sort of protests in the mabaso transit camps in the nineteen fifties and nineteen sixties. We see a lot of deep roots for contemporary mizrahi politics. In israel with connections to their antecedents in the middle east and north africa and with increasing back and forth migration not migration the tourism in particularly between morocco in israel that only becomes stronger. Look is the connection. Then between the history that you're telling about moroccan jewish politics over the course of the twentieth century and in these bigger issues of historic agency political agency that we see in jews throughout the middle east and in israel in particular. What are the ways in which we can draw connection there as we kind of step back and try to understand the broader history of middle eastern north african jews. Yeah i mean. It's one place among many where we see jewish political agency. Were jews do politics. Moroccan jews jews of moroccan descent. Make up a large percentage of mizraki him in israel today and understanding this story of jewish political activism in morocco these deep roots of jewish political life in morocco sheds light on contemporary politics in israel on contemporary politics and morocco and because of recent current events political life in morocco and political life in israel is even more publicly connected than it was previously in so it shows how these things matter still in both of these geopolitical contexts are will thank you so much. I'm really glad we had a chance to talk about your book and the big issues that connect with it. So thank you so much for joining me on the podcast. Thank you very much. And thanks to you for listening to this episode with all my heckman until next time i'm jason let's dig and this is jewish history matters.

morocco north africa moroccan communist party simone levy israel middle east north africa abraham serfaty casablanca middle east france algeria jason los alma heckman Rachel heckman feld levin palestine Jewish heritage foundation for french colonial administration spain shimon levy
8am Newscast

Houston Public Media Local Newscasts

03:17 min | 2 months ago

8am Newscast

"The houston independent school district. Board voted unanimously. Last night to back a mask mandate for all staff and students this year whether they are vaccinated or not this is due to increasing cove in nineteen hospitalizations in our region. The decision came just after harris county. Judge lena hidalgo issued a mask mandate herself for all harris county public schools and daycare facilities for it. Ben county has issued mask mandates for municipal buildings but as our own chevron herndon reports. It wasn't clear as of yesterday if fort bend. Schools would require masks hours after a judge granted. The county a temporary restraining order against governor. Greg abbott ban on mass mandate the county raised its code level to read and ford been. It's d- issued a statement saying the district continues to highly encourage all students in staff to where face coverings whether they are vaccinated or not paired breese and winnie says. That's not good enough county. Judge has made it. Possible for them to mandate mass. They know it's the right thing to do. We really really really beat this right now. Sand winnie acts teachers and staff were seen not masking up on the first day of school. We just heard from the students themselves in middle schools and high schools that the lunchroom's were packed. As if it was pre- cova d- people were not distancing not wearing masks and a lot of schools. People said that the teachers and the staff were mainly the ones that were not wearing their mass ford been. Isd ads it will continue to monitor the legal developments. I'm chevron herndon in a statement late. Yesterday fort ben counties local authority. Dr jacqueline mentor recommended. Mask wearing and the statement also says dr mentor has the ability to quote issue. Emergency health directives through recommendations which public schools must enforce and that includes wearing face coverings mask mandates in the recent cova d- surge are not stopping big events from back to our city. This year. our business report flooring and martin explains houston. I the organization in charge of conventions and other large meetings says it's hosting forty three events with at least a thousand attendees this year that includes major conventions like the offshore technology conference the nra convention in the world petroleum congress but houston first ceo. Michael heckman says the delta varian is likely going to subdue attendance. It will have an impact on the number of leisure visitors that will have in the city We don't think it will be a catastrophic impact but it will be an impact. There will be until this. This gets back under control. Heckman says houston. I won't impose any attendance restrictions but it will continue its strict cleaning and social distancing protocol standard adopted last year he expects to convention business to return to pre pandemic levels in twenty twenty two. I'm florida and martin in houston looking at the numbers. Thirty four hundred people are currently hospitalized across greater houston with cove in nineteen and that includes over four hundred eighty people around harris county in the intensive care units being treated for the virus fifty percent chance of showers and thunderstorms today. Another one hundred degree days in our future at least that's what forecasters say with the humidity. I met harrop news. Eight seven support for. Npr comes from i-drive providing cloud backup full system. Backup and onsite i-drive appliance to protect.

chevron herndon harris county Judge lena hidalgo Ben county houston independent school dis Sand winnie fort ben counties local author Greg abbott Dr jacqueline mentor dr mentor fort bend ford breese houston winnie cova world petroleum congress Michael heckman delta varian Isd
James Heckman on Inequality and Economic Mobility

EconTalk

1:23:40 hr | 3 months ago

James Heckman on Inequality and Economic Mobility

"Welcome to econ talk conversations for the curious part of the library of economic liberty. I'm your host. Russ roberts of shalom college in jerusalem and stanford university's hoover institution go to contact dot org where you can subscribe comment on this episode by links information related to today's conversation also find archives with every episode. We've done going back to two thousand and six or email address is male at econ. Talk dot org. We'd love to hear from you. Today is july seven th twenty. Twenty one and my guest is economist. James heckman of the university of chicago. His director of the center for the economics of human development there and he was awarded the nobel prize in economics in the year. Two thousand his first appearance econ talk was in january of two thousand sixteen. Discussing the state of econometrics. Our topic for today is economic mobility and inequality on recent. Nba are working paper in march of twenty twenty one. The d. co-authored with rasmi slander. So that paper is lessons from denmark denmark about inequality and social mobility. There's also a nontechnical that paper with with the results that i may quote as well and we'll we'll link to both of them. Jim welcome back. Econ talk well. It's nice to see you ever us. It's been years we've been that long interacting more than forty years now for sure. That's that's a little scary. Yeah it's a little scary well. We're still doing it. Yeah that's a good sign. A lot of people point to scandinavia. Sweden finland are we in denmark as countries with policies that the us should adopt or some of those policies that people especially economists have in mind. And why do economists often argue for emulating scandinavian economic social and economic policy. Well it isn't just econom- sits out a lot of politicians. I mean this is a practice that goes back. I don't know when it started. But i know that was very prevalent in the in the years. That clinton was running for president when she was actually in the us senate And then of course more. Recently danish policies received a lot of attempts from politicians. Like bernie said there is a progressive politicians and so there is a famous headline have to. I don't can't quoted literally but i believe that it says something. It's a washington post seven years ago six years ago and it says the the american dream is now lived in scannon eden that was the essence of what's going on and scandinavian policies will provide a basis providing social mobility for equality. Giving a sense of fairness larger world all concerns about any quality that people have mirrored discuss them continued to discuss this mall. Allegedly those problems are solved once we look scanning and so sanders in particular and the and the hurt progressives in the senate and the house in the us congress and a and other agencies around the washington other groups around washington continuously point to things like the fact. that child care is completely and completely subsidizing. College tuition esprit. Nobody pays any to itch that health care universal and access open to everyone and let's expenditures least measured on school as measured by teachers our and other dimensions of child the quality school schooling. The children are getting is about the forced the same teachers salaries and universal overall arthur denver. Maybe a slight modification for us the living. But it's very close to universal. And the reason why i can confirm all these policies in place is that i've been analyzing what is called registered data from from denmark. Unlike the us in denmark. There are registered. Everybody signs up at birth and they up adapt in the in the register and so we can monitor every major event every event actually in the life of gains from birth. That you know where they go to school win. They're born with the quality of the school is who else went to them. What neighborhood they lived in. We know a lot of things about them that we family we know what earnings they had. I don't want that. They add where they move who their neighbors are in. So we're able to really measure the full extent of what welker stay in. Denmark is acting on what out people are sorting out. People are interacting. So it's a very rich opportunity to study social mobility denmark. But as you were saying as you were saying did denmark has actually been viewed as a model state and so and the dame's themselves you as a model state it's not a social state. They was validly social welfare. Say huge taxation but huge provision of it services more than half by thank all benefits that people receive come from the state one way or the other and so this new. You'll see the genie auditions especially after taxes and transfers are much lower denmark. The the us. And that's that's a measure of that's a measure of inequality the jimmy so by a lot of the standard measures it always the many political thinkers and discussions and economists of course to would see denmark is being a garden of opportunity leaving your garden or social policy and part of the reason. I think it's attractive is just to policymakers sides. The idea that you might be in favor. Some of those policies is that in a lot of the scandinavian countries measures of. I'm going to say measures of measured happiness Because those are are fairly high if some of the highest in the world i'm highly sceptical of those ventures Self reported. i'm not sure what they tell us. Much across countries or even within countries. But that people do pay attention to them. We had a number of episodes those factors on contact. And i think people then say well look this reduction in inequality in disposable income in particular a you. Were careful not to say anything about wealth because wealth is quite a bit less equal in denmark than people might think. There is a large private sector in scandinavian countries. Which is why they're not really socialist. Their social welfare states. There's a large public provision of certain kinds of services education childcare and so on but people say look they do all these services. They provide all these services at taxpayer expense and look at the great result. People are happy now. You of course care about something other just measured inequality in the point of your paper. You're free to comment on this happiness literature if you want. Because i think it's I think it's a bizarre thing but the part that you focus on which i think is quite interesting. We've also talked about quite a bit on. The program is the question of of mobility across generations. So use the image of one of your papers of the apple. Fallen close to the tree if your parents are rich. Are you going to be richer you if your parents are poor. You're likely to be poor. What are your opportunities for rising above both in relative and absolute terms to concepts that are often confused and conflated. They're very different. But those are the things that that you're particularly interested in and what's surprising. I think about your paper and fascinating is that you'd find that. Actually in terms of intergenerational mobility the ability of children to overcome handicaps of of where the how they were born the fa- the parental income their family income when they were children. It's actually not so different from the united states. is that an accurate summary of what you found it. Is that fact that you just summarize is shock to me gains. I mean my car. Erasmus at the rockwell on beijing after not brought wool on mention the name of it And the he has become a star of a certain type of media star. Not because that's his instinct because literally the the finding is so dramatic and challenges right at the core of when denmark thinks. It's all about. So yes i think. I think it's really disturbing many evil. That in fact intergenerational mobility properly measured in terms of skills in terms of politics generation is really bearing is really much pretty much the same family influence is very strong in denmark. About strong as it is in the us and you can measure that many ways. It's not just the wilson. Family income is parental education. It's not aspects of the parents and various kinds of of ways to describe the family so it is not solve the problem which is or some people. Call it. A problem not broken. The link between the family and child out did extended evil oath. And this is the number. This is kids all get universal. I forgot about that. This is something that the deans again. Everybody wants to again. Hillary clinton or earlier era bernie sanders to this day and many many other not just auditions economists foundation. Heads and so for it's become a commonplace. And and i think that is something that really needs to be examined so that just to restate the argument of the of the people who who favored these policies and used markaz an exemplar. They would be that. Okay sure rich. People have bigger houses than poor people. Rich people have maybe two or three cars of person might have one car no car so rich. People get bored of certain things but by providing the most important things for for one's future economic ability and success that is education and and to make sure parents don't have who run employed have income and are not constantly away and scrapping for things zaidi and stress about a lot of people have argued that if we could put those policies in place the united states all children would start from the same starting ground starting line and then yes there might be some genetic differences across people. That's inevitable there'd be differences grit perseverance. But the idea would be that rather than having a world where the rich get all the education and the poor because they don't have the resources or stuck with an inferior level in theory in theory denmark. Everybody gets the same as you said. Same expenditures on education and no matter what district iran or where your neighborhood is and can get up to any kind of up to college up to phd. I think you wrote that. All of that is tuition free out of pocket expenses and therefore everybody has the same opportunity but you find that they do not so why. Why do you think assuming you're correct. We're gonna take it as given we're not gonna go into the weeds to figure out whether the how important the any distinctions that are left are but if you're right that rich children in denmark tend to do a lot better than children who grew up in poor families in denmark despite the attempt to equalize educational access. Why is it what is happening in denmark. That's offsetting or what's failing what their education system. Jonathan highly touted by the way as many of the scandinavian systems are. What's going on there. Well i wrote earlier. I think it's just the fact that the family life plays a fundamental role in shaping out. Children either succeed or fail so i think that's something that we currently deny in discussions in the us. It's so politically incorrect. Now i mean there's a whole literature now we're talking about black lives matter doc about opportunity for african americans to completely take the whole issue of the family off the table. Even though the issue of the family has been on the table since wbz boy was writing about this in the nineteenth century. Then it's always been on the table by serious scholars but it's not just for african american. It's rare everyone family. Life plays simple role and economic and social policies that ignore that by going to ignore on the mental source of any wallet. The danish study is a very nice example. It's nice because what it shows is by the measures that people use people are using these measures of genie or How unequally distributed income after taxes and transfers are then are versus the us a- and they look to those measures and say here see equality everybody's equal and in some sense they are because taxes are very high. He can't rise too high. And you can't really think too long you're Social safety net so all about is true nonetheless. The role of a family remains and it's powerful in that to me was very striking. I had no idea would be strong and persistent. We have several vapors on not just the in be european. We wrote on your paper which we publish. Unfortunately a scandinavian journal. So it's scandinavian journal. Economics which is less well-known was micro. Fact of the matter is is the you've documented this and you have a series of studies and my co author that the rockwall foundation also documented. How policies that have been targeted or not targeted have led the educational inequality and change the nature of redistribution and inequality in denmark itself. So i think interesting because we have such good data. Denmark is a wonderful laboratory we can look at many back and we can examine the role of private markets Private choice and families new creating is inequality and it's real young lawrence's real and lasting and so when people talk about inequality being less in denmark. What they're always talking about his actor tatsuno transplant qualified. Very nicely go before tax transfer it. There is a fair degree of equality. Winter wages are before taxes and transfers. And that doesn't account for holy other aspects redistribution system so the really is inequality in the sense that people with different skills. We eight different amounts of money. It just there to keep lesson and the state as a fiber role in shaping what the final consumption by me. But that doesn't change family uncle. It's still matters which families have errands. Leads are looking out for the child's wellbeing trying to find a good school trying to find a good teacher taking the kids to the zoo. Doing all of these things errands do that. Plays a fundamental role. People don't like to admit i've the danish family. There's a lot of cohabitation and denmark. You now back. In the sixties and seventies denmark and sweden considered three countries. Now the traditional american model of marriage was roman. Because there's a lot of cohabitation and experimentation but nonetheless what you'll see is that in denmark there's tremendous. Even the aggravation turns out to be a form of a relationship is very very stable and once children a war will go happening frequently. They nehring or they stay together as union over the forest so the family is a much more stable entity despite all of this alleged freedom they can choose choice the people they and i think that's fine but the back of the matter is that children are growing up and stable to Foams with a lot of support but those parental years those years at all and the guidance revived are playing crucial role and they continue to play a crucial role despite along the transfers and free tuition childcare race below and this and that and the other i wanna make sure i understand the basic facts that you're trying to explain or understand going on now you're doing fine fine but we're just a clarification cohabitation just means to people living together. Who are married and they might have a child and those are very different. You're suggesting then out a one parent family with single mothers single father. But but the point i want to get out. There are two things here. I'm worried listeners mike confused. I'm a little confused. Which is you're saying. The family's very important i certainly believe that or am prone to believing it but are you saying the following. Let's try this so you grow up in a poor family. Let's say you're you're you're in. You're in denmark and we could also consider the united states in a poor family and your parents are poor meeting. Your parents are poor. Their wages are low. You might have. They might only be one parent at home so they may struggle to get the best highest paying job. They'd be able to get. Because i have to worry about child care in a way that a two-parent family may not have to worry. But it sounds like you're saying that so for that family when that kid grows up. You're saying they're going to end up again. Something like their parents low income but they're gonna get a kick in a boost from the welfare state so even though the family might play a role in replicating the original pre-tax pre transfer distribution of income. The government offsets it was some taxes and transfers. They take money away from the richest most successful families. Many of whom those they had come from rich families in their childhood and they boost up the poorest families because they get their education provided for free they get their childcare perhaps provided for free or highly subsidized. So what's what's discouraging about this if you're if you're dane from denmark and you hear this result why wouldn't you just say well so what what's the big deal. So the welfare state has to compensate for the fact that poor children end up with poorer income when they grow in the poorest part of the income distribution when they get older and richard children they also end up richard but the government kind switch. It out is that. Is that how they'd react or am i missing something well. That's the hollis. Yes and they're very proud of that policy snow. There's no question if i were to state. What government policy years in what many danes with. Its agreed to them. They be completely. I'm bored with what the statement is you just name what. What are they missing. What's the what did you find that. It's surprising to them. Well what we find. Is that the children across generations. I know more skill than the children of low skill. Baron skills in terms of education in terms of the social emotional ills in terms of various aspects of striving in engagement in society are really very different. There's no strategy by family origin. And that yes. They get the same material resources but they don't have the same strategies for life and they're not really fully inclusive and so the sense of agency of being a danish child being being fully developing your own essential is the war to end. In fact it is warranted. It is an example in our earlier work. We didn't cite it in this particular favor today. I the one you were signing ending. Though but the structure found earlier was there was a program. Designed targeted towards children who are very disadvantage. And these are kids who had dropped out of school or were given some kind of remedial training and so all well adventure but what happened is the subsidy that they were given was subsidy than moralists induced them not to go to school and not to work and then the light consequences of dissipating so yes. They were equalised when they were eighteen. Seventy but when they were thirty five thirty six bay lack the skills of those who had not participated in the room and so there there are strong our whole disincentive effects operating throughout the whole system. Don't it's an issue that if you're guaranteed you're told you basically don't meet describe who are and you basically are told when you're in school but yeah the benny school with also get the subsidy. That's targeted towards disadvantaged children. Those children will make back and they will not develop the skill that their counterparts might and they not participated in those broken. So there's a sense of incentives facing these children that do not promote their skills and their for this evasion the larger environment so they become. I don't wanna say detached but they developed much less of what their potential might be and and that sounds like it's been creates a mentality that i think is very very dangerous for their own will be it's harmful and that's the other part. Is that a lot of these parents in the welfare state. They're they're all well. And i'm not guessing though the militias with parents that are out there trying to hurt their children u. way but some of the less advantage errands who are still advising their children and the day to day of the year award. Notice spool you. Now do this do that. Don't have any crime and so forth and so on those influences remain and those children are not insulated against that so they may have more money more food on the table they may have worn income security but some of the basic values errands and families provide are missing and that is not achieved. That's not achieved by preschool. It's not achieved by these nursery or childcare center or formal education. None of those factors happens aid for what is missing. Which is the early family years. And it's not like a government program for saying is gonna somehow galvanize the parents not at least the kind that are emblazoned denmark. And so i think the really or thing recognize is that to me. The study emphasizes in a way that i'd never recognized the powerful role of the family that the family is is every as an american looking into the whole discussion of inequality in the united states. Seeing these two trillion dollar packages triple trying to reenact the welfare state. You realize that these buying formulas are basically reincarnations of the danish welfare instant almost line by line unlimited child your universal freaking free college tuition you go down the list of things that biden promised in his presidential address and that many others and it's not just biden it's not even just now my grant a lot of republicans. A lot of will really believe that with this list of social policies in place the world is going to be a better place and provide opportunity. But it doesn't and that's the part that i think there's an improvement material in broome but you're not changing the dependents. Traditional measures of educational mobility is what the education of the family. What the errands. Education was with the education of the jewelry. Okay and so what happened. Very interesting in denmark. Very we'll longtime suits. Go back one hundred years when i say we know. Denmark is very very famous collecting data for being very very meticulous and the allies today. You know the danish actuaries in the journal last world a fame they found that actuarial science. But there's a lot of data a lot of governments that disney enacted but one thing was true was that in the nineteen hundred. Say nine thousand nine ten a lot of days lot many wally. If your father didn't go to school you much less likely to go to school. That's true in a democracy primarily your world sign and so what happened was that denmark started expanding programs in the rural areas and targeting for disadvantaged children and so for a while those targeted programs operated away that actually promoted educational attainment so there was a big rise in the nineteen early part of twentieth century. Were danish children. They have much more vision than that other parents. Well suddenly them and this is an interesting part of it around the middle twentieth century. This is work by the way from my co author and the guy named with christians works and these guys actually showed that around the middle of the century. The educational policies began universal. So instead of going after the disadvantage they became across the board and what happened was social will village that had been witnessed in the first battle. Century started the vantage. And the reason why it's very interesting and that is universal. Alyce a tableau. They give you a check. You can go out and checking to go of these school but well educated parents. More affluent parents are better. Able to draw on jets to advise their job to reinforce. What is the learned in those school and so those universally provided program actually turn off the vehicle for promoting social mobility. Rowlett's that actually this idea of educate so who was managed by universal program the most advantage. And this is a binding. That's been it's not just throwing. Denmark is a study that was done. I would say it's school choice in in In boston chris walgreens at the university of california at berkeley arabia adams. He studied use of school choice. Any bound that school choice was actually very beneficial. And he found it. School choice was particularly beneficial. Charters very beneficial in For the most disadvantaged children and this is the interesting part. Who are the kids that were going. Charters rule among those eligible the most advantage it was. The parents sought out those school. So even though the bottom of the barrel benefit more their parents were at ben born and so this universality really created more inequality than was originally intended. And so that's the way that inequality can operate. The family plays a very important role. It's kinda like a captain in the wheelhouse telling the giant what to do where to go. What opportunities say what steps to do and what not to do you commit crime. Should you study at night. Do you do your homework and us. And it's no sahgal imploded. The nobody wants to talk about. And it's beautiful because denmark is a case study where almost every obvious solution. Whoa externally invo solution is at work. Everybody's not the same galician. Everyone's that this and that and yet everybody doesn't go to college. They don't they don't take advantage manageable and they don't they're not getting reading and writing or so started off this program talking about the role of family and i would want to say yes. Let's talk about that. Because that is what i think. The main lesson is armstrong's and even though you can accent transfers accessible but you can't acce transmitter than the naacp them into more effective or less effective parents those are things that actually need a somewhat deeper approach to really thinking about value provide true social opportunity for children. It's not just a matter of money will come back to that. I i wanna i wanna come back to selling said a few minutes ago which is i make. You made an allusion to Our relationship back forty five years or so avenue for the social security administration. Yeah i found mccurdy longtime time ago taught in the mainstream economics at the university of chicago is every undergraduate and graduate student is taught that utility wellbeing is a function of stuff that the more you get you consume the better off you are and one of the implications of that at least in the narrow sort of i would call it empty version. Is that if you make fifty thousand dollars a year and a job that you might enjoy and i replace that job and instead goofy. What fifty thousand dollars annual check. You could argue. Many economists would the you're better off because now you still have fifty thousand dollars of stuff to choose from with your income constrained and you have leisure which is a value and you can enjoy it by watching youtube or learning hebrew or mastering guitar. And yet we know in real life and this is what you were alluding to about agency and dignity and we call it off and on this program flourish human flourishing. If you don't have a good set of skills If the only way you have access to stuff is through the government giving it to you you're quality. Life is not the same as when you exercise the skills you've acquired on your own the chosen to acquire the struggled to achieve an en- gain and apply them to make the world a better place by working by the commercial world serving others by producing something that other people are willing to pay for. And this idea. I think that it gets out a lot of interesting ideas that i hope. We explore over the next months and even years and he can talk this focus on a universal basic income. The idea that we can jump start development by giving people cash. It's a topic. I hope we'll have it in an episode on soon. Say just give people stuff. Then they'll be better off even but they'll have the ability now to to take advantage of that and and to grow into they won't have the pressure say of of poverty on them and what does denmark result dead market. Lisa suggesting is that actually. It doesn't help so much giving people equal access to education which you'd think will be the great leveler doesn't seem to work and you're suggesting that's because the family differences still persist and families are where we spend a good chunk of our day about half of our waking hours just like only half is an education and a lot of that isn't really education. It's just a rear end in the seat. It's not actually the creation of human capital and this romance we have about this this equal access or you know free. Tuition is it's masking. What's really going on to the surface your point. Is that the families who are better for worse. Families who have lots of stuff already can push their children in directions. There's a hidden variable underlying. The date is what you're suggesting. And it's you're calling it family but it's really about guidance. Advice molding mentorship maturity moral character all kinds of attributes that aren't in the data set but the holy becoming the data. I mean i could had other work. We actually measure the activities. That yes in greece. No not using the public discussion usually not boggled sex and not would beat us at denmark and just to clarify just to clarify when you're talking about how. How remarkable the danish data are that are available to you one thing. He did not mention. But i assume you just overlooked is family family status that that you have not just we know every economic event of versus live how much they earn and so on but i also know something about their parents income their parents education and so on where they work. We know they're voyeur. And we know their peers know their neighbors. I can tell you in denmark. Misses all very confidential data. So i'm not going to the local newspapers. You know ratting on some billionaire millionaire of staying or nothing but literally. I can find out what the problem social life is like what the environment is like of the child growing up the parents associate what neighborhoods. They live. What are the property. I appreciates and so and so and then. What's the role of the school. What's the little so yes. We have a lot of information. But but you're absolutely right that these back. I mean 'cause you know the this. There was a book written in the nineteenth century. Remember reading it a long time and emma crossing in a used bookshop. The reign of want and what this person was saying. What many people said. And i think probably before incense which is that. It's just not a matter of money just not a matter of miracle that of the other. It's just not a matter of gut scale invention or any of these measures we normally take. There's an element of quality. It in this case the family is playing a very important role. But it's not one thing you didn't mention your dial and i would add to is not only as the family providing this admire. It's literally shaping the fragrance shaping the sense of definition itself of the chilean from those national. It's motivating that or discouraging one way or the other and then i think is an under value wall and certainly states can't talk about. You can talk about it now. Even though it's probably the number one problem and most people who are receptive about the underlying problems in american social life would admit back of the matter is is that this but those traits are increasingly being measured. I mean we chan. I mean. I'm now in the middle of looking at dinner. Vengeance not just in the us that in china ak- and we look at things like we look at things like how much do children these interventions by the we work with families and the courage the families interact with the child. That's all they're just. Basically teaching parents are deal with joe. That's another story but it does get to the essence of how you target family life and that eventually family live out families influence there. Joel ripped how much more successful children and we have. A lot of studies on this now and they're being launched being and being carefully evaluated and finding real benefits. But it's not money. This is the other part of any. Is this whole group of people. I hate them engine they. I won't mention names but it's crazy and these large foundations of all. These people need wealth but doing these experiments they're going to give poor people. Two thousand dollars per year for three years see whether or not the neuroscience of their brain is transformed. There's a demented study. Probably heard about by who is actually colleague. But it's crazy. He was one of our pieces of evidence in supporting getting people money. A by this guy was that the people who are starving to death get lower than people learn starving. How that's you as the importance of money come up. i mean. I put that on the same bar. Saying people who make decisions do quickly tend to make more mistakes than those who make it through slowly can make it with in rational. That's getting off target. What i'm saying is some basic ideas about how we make the decisions that shape our lives. That's what families do it really guiding the and the mentor. Really you know. Johnny on saudi beats him up in school. It's on the arm. Johnny can have several reactions. When you back. Beat up the guy. You give johnny club or or you talk to johnny and say look try to avoid it. These there are a lot of ways that shape allies and actions of the job and it goes throughout the eighteen twenty years. The children are living at home. Maybe while i wanna talk about the work. We're gonna move away from denmark for now i wanna talk about the united states I wanna talk about to type piece of work. That raj chetty and his co. authors who worked on one which we've talked a lot about on this program in passing the second not so much so the first one is about the american dream. Second is about neighborhood effects so in terms of the american dream study that gets an enormous amount of attention which i find bewildering but i want to hear your take is the finding that in america. If you in the old days you'd have a seventy percent chance of about performing your parents economically. So i think it was seventy or eighty and then that means that only twenty or thirty do worse but most of them do a lot better than their parents. That's one measure of the american dream. Some say it's owning a house. I say that's the dream of the National home builders association. Not the american people. If certainly we liked this idea. Americans like this idea of you know i want to do better than my parents. That would be progress. And in the more recent cohort. I forget the year eighty four. But i'm doing this from memory more recently thousand nineteen as you're born in the nineteen eighties. That doesn't hold anymore. You only have a fifty percent chance of perform your parents which means you have a fifty percent chance of underperforming which means basically you're stock. You don't have any on average people that bill progress and only the richest claim. It's often climbed that only the richest people benefiting from economic growth. It's not widely shared and the poor. Can't quote get ahead this. I find bizarre. Because there's a ton of evidence when we look when we look in in time series data where we follow the same over time that not only the poor a lot better than their parents but the biggest gains often in percentage terms to start with an even sometimes at absolute terms go to the poorest people up until very recently this is not a one time phenomenon and more importantly this. I want you to react to shetty's results with this. Co authors depend on a lot of assumptions and and as. I've often applauded them on this program. They relax those assumptions in the appendix. Not not in the body of the papers so much but in the appendix they give you a tremendous amount of information about the sensitivity of their results to the assumptions. They made those include things like family size in assessing economic wellbeing. Because obviously that's going to change your access to goods if you're living in a large family with many children small children there's going to be issues about all kinds of different factors when when whether you measured inflation correctly. Which is a huge challenge. You're making these these studies over time. So they relaxed different assumptions and they showed that well actually it might not be fifty might be closer to seventy or sixty eight and all of a sudden. It's like well wait a minute. What's our best estimate here. And i feel like the flagship banner. Fifty percent is the one that that was chosen. Not because the assumptions were the most accurate or made the most sense. It's just step. Most dramatic certainly is the one that the journalists have have have have latched onto and spread. The american dream is dead. Do you think those results are reliable. Not whether they're obviously they were careful with. The date is careful they could be. But do you think. We've fundamentally understand the transmission intergenerational mobility in the united states in those day to says no. I don't know if you saw my a bill. We had a tape exchange. I had wear discuss. I have seen you have seen it. And i linked to it. We go ahead for those who have not seen it okay. The reason why i that is that i raised a lot of these issues with chevy. He was right in front of me so this is not like i was writing some of spirit column. I was sitting there in electoral princeton with with hundreds of people in rome asking specifically. Well you answer this than you answer that. Would you refuse to do very little response. Bailable given day more or less recused next the strategy mean. It's all right if you if you haven't been york times supporting you in a lot of places that's equivalent to have you know Lated that rentals and you need to worry about lesser light like some academic raising weeks that the that data may be wrong. Let me just Let me just point out. One of the reasons why i went to denver was the we can address some of the same questions and denmark as we did in the united states we can look at questions and social mobility and we can look at questions and the way data were actually collected the data. Chatty hell are not as describe. He does not really have long term. Follow up for these children. You start the job. He does not have complete. Family is not have a lot of the information that we know to be important about family life. For example. i'll give you one factor. That's very important. Found repeated and we certainly blinded in denver if the param if apear as committed crime especially as don the prison or somehow been treated adversely by the criminal justice system. The child using the boy is much less likely to avoid that. Problem in the next generation is a very strong intergenerational transmission of criminal activity. Well dr ginsburg steinle depressing depressed. But the back of the med but can drove. What he can do has very very data. He doesn't follow individual over their full likes little snippets. Technically speaking for a lot of people are in his servant. He doesn't even though the parents were. Or what the family structure watts. He can find them at certain selected periods of time. After they've now he's slowly slowly getting better and better data but in denmark we actually have complete life cycle. Not from the time of burger until late in the life of child as an adult. I should say What the and we can see that. There are tremendous differences in the quality of data. And it's not just better data. It makes a difference about what the exposure is. What is the family being captured by the judge study. And what is it about the the so-called neighbor really egypt. Lock the neighborhood. And so i i would say about the japanese study the following the i would make the holly war with ice first of all. The data are not what the cracked up with is not really a true measure of sight of the wellbeing of job does not study family. And secondly and something that i think plays a crucial role in the whole. The whole study is moore's the role of family in sorting and choosing neighborhoods. The children grow up. And the reason why chance before before you go on just wanna clarify the two different kinds of studies that the chetty and has gone authors have done one. I described in some detail but the second one. You're talking about sort of give listeners. Some background it's been incredibly influential. It's this idea that we're you grow up. The neighborhood you live in is is is destiny so if you grow up in quote a poor neighborhood you will be poor if you grew up in a rich neighborhood you will be rich. And the implication as far as i understand. I want to be fair to chat. Just want to say the listeners. I've invited shetty to be on the program before either. He hasn't chosen to to be on it or he didn't get my email and not saying anything negative about him. And i certainly would love to hear his and i'll let listeners. Watch the video that jim reference and you can decide whether chetty didn't respond to your criticisms or not but in that were being fair in that work as i understand it neighborhood not just not just country not just state not just city but neighborhood is destiny so you up. A board abraham. It's the neighborhood itself somehow. It's disadvantaged you and that you then we need social policies to offset that handicapped and your claim in denmark. Paper is that those neighborhood effects are merely proxies for family differences. That they don't have data on. Is that correct. that's correct. this is a basic idea. That growing is a very old idea. And it's actually written and it's an it's an important component of known friedman's old book on the consumption panchen which sounds like light wave current discussion but at the time when milton friedman was knowing his work. One of the many different ways. You've been basically slipped the data at mrs lack on the fifteenth of the data. Cruder than the day. What you could do is you can form aggregates places like city or neighborhood in so any use that very creative way but what he was doing at. What's relevant frank. Now is the back that in these neighbor. There's a lot of sorting going on the poor people. Explain what you by that. Well i mean the people who are more disadvantage say by level of education. They by a level of background criminal activity Various kinds of other participation in social welfare programs people who are earning less money and therefore demanding lower quality housing and so forth whether or of projects that actually concentrate the pool in her various reasons geographically in the same locate and provide benefits. And you know and and a lot of. Us policies never day where money is given the schools or given the organizations if the percentage of children in school on on on free lunches and welfare lunches are is over about a certain racial so that there is the kind of an fact we know that people sort and effect one thing do know sorting is an important part of any free market says vinnie's and if anything sorting has gone up in the last twenty thirty year unless picked year says much more sorting income on education on a bunch of traits launching of many people who have high income t t much more likely to live with people with heightened the quality housing. You're buying comparable quality schools schools. Yeah and so by the way even though we're all then work second there really is a sense that even though teachers are paid this high quality teachers and we know they're falling to know what their grades were in in high school college. Transcripts were so we can really measure quality red and more affluent neighborhoods. You find that. The teachers joe up teaching there are higher quality and this is just an old chicago argument. You can't pay them any money. We shouldn't give higher quality students which makes their lives more enjoyable though it's non-market response to a market imperfection but anyway coming back a lot of sorting mowing off. And that's ignore lately in the chinese navy. He just ignores that because he doesn't have live data. Our family backward. He doesn't know what exactly family influences like. No criminal this don't have any measure about really In these data they're very crew administrative data like journal revenue service. So you're arguing here arguing that a lot of results are actually being driven by not the neighborhood but by the characteristics of the family neighbor that what we neighborhood effects are really family quality offense and as a result of sorting that goes on in the labor market. And we find that. We've we go back to denmark going back because we have so much better data there. We find that once. We control that kind of sorting process. These neighborhood effects bowling. I mean literally that what the neighborhood is an agglomeration families and what families do and so we're back to families again but you close one thump. Going back to the very first. I wanna talk about jedi fairly thing you mentioned the figure about how you know seventy percent of families and children better if you will closely jetties Opportunity if you noticed where some of the states are that neville best social mobility. Have you seen the ones that have. The highest rated there in western kansas in nebraska. They're in places out. It'll be great plains. Now what do we know about the money. We gotta move there so your children will thrive. Everybody should go to go to. College is not to become a farmer. I claiming eddie need probably a few grandparents farmers to you gotta get acquire a move and build a heritage. See some of these dimensions about out. Mobility is decline to understand that some of the the first awards was cheddi studies. Start from people who were born for so were raised. I sampled of the nineteen forties in one thousand nine hundred forty. We were coming out every great refreshing. The we're leading agricultural wasn't snow highly and both of you look at sociability. The four hundred fifty a huge marvin have to do with our economy from the urban areas. Next for blacks and for whites and everybody who gave up on the farms we agriculture became very productive and let behind a group of people. Very few people who were on average making mike more so the fact of the matter. Is that study. Those studies are very law for honey. Just you you're mentioning the atlas of opportunity. Or i was this influential study. That's the new york times. I have a colleague named magnum. Very smart gotten norwegian member of the chicago. Faculty is gary. Becker professor of economics at the university back. A very accomplished vigil. He and his co. often did something very interesting. They took a look at these neighborhoods. That are in the atlas of opportunity and remember these are zip codes very small neighborhoods. He asked a very narrow statistical. Not only about nothing. We're asking are the mobility in one neighbor of statistically significantly different from those in another in other words the all of this arise by chance in the answer was yes it foot. These were not statistically significant differences. These allison's were just usually artifacts they give numerology hard evidence that these neighborhoods in some predictive. And of course as i said earlier in the neighborhood analysis ignores the fact that people sort and it's crucial. It's crucial to their identification. It's a great crucial identifying some just not a lot of work on it in the context of denmark. I'm assuming the danes are not like the united states than mobility processes. They're the key identifying some johnny work. The kea sunken. He acknowledges if you're looking at neighbors acknowledged is the basically people where they live where they live. Basically ran all the terms of the age of the child. Anybody who's at kids those that when you have like three and four and five year old. Who are thinking is gonna go through what neighborhood. They sort in all that mobility associated with families settling down. It's over a lot of it is over by five six seven at the age of gile certainly by the age of the second job. That's all ignored. It's basically son that it's a random frosts that is the it is so crazy in veteran video. Ask a real estate age you think people are asking about. The quality of schools are asking about what the prime rates are and winner. They doing when it gives us sixteen years old or the kids are basically five and six. They're really trying to decide inebriated. And so literally. What is this kind of. Like a social planners three you've been randomly assigned evil and they have a nature randomly chosen were designed to live or not and just defies the nature of what families do. But i think we should move away from professor. He's worked for for a moment and again. I invite him to come come to contact and defend his work. I hope i hope he will. All explicitly informally invite him after this episode airs and he may choose to choose not to. It's up to him. But i want to defend shetty even though i've been skeptical. Some of his findings like all of us he. I'm sure has some political views. He has an ideology. I think he believes deeply that he is in search of the truth and he found it or identified it and i just as a explanation by the way. Would you say identifying assumption. That's the technical. Term for an economy attrition trying to measure the impact of one variable and it can be hard to do and so the assumption that that neighborhood choices random is what allows him to conclude what he does. I think he's i well. I know he said it. Many times said publicly that he thinks these kind of econometric techniques techniques that you were not literally part but certainly the field that you're you've spent your whole life in our the road to good economics the road to truth throat too good public policy and that that's how we should teach economics He's a he's a. He's a very outspoken advocate for for teaching economics as a form of empirical work rather than a an art rather than a field of behavior He said applied statistician. Now you think. His statistical work is is flawed I'm sympathetic to your view. But he feels otherwise and many others do as well so i just want to give him the benefit of the doubt and again invite him to defend himself in the first person. I i i have no. You know what i find it. Ironic that years ago. I wrote papered with johnny's father. So i don't jedi. I've known jetsons before his birth. I i was just cleaning out. Some boxes and i came across the draft of good neighbor. I think it's highly relevant with teddy's fathers helping condoms at boston university goody come from we were together on the years ago but but no i don't want to attack jedi per se and i can't say whether insincere or not i can honestly say he's not careful with dade i can also honestly say he's not careful econometric ideas so i don't know what what you heard him say you might wanna tune in on some of his lectures and he gives the hud and to some of the other agencies especially during the obama administration. You might sound very measured. In certain academic settings believe sitting there on the stump in hud with a bunch of people willing to hand out. You sums of money trying to support more work on neighborhoods. Then you're gonna you're gonna find a very different person djelic. i'm less econometric crowds. Well he's alone that in that way every he's not alone out very well. What i am suggesting is it. This is such a basic point and the point of the the point hasn't been it's not then the point has not been met and it's been out there now at least some time. I made that the video. I can't imagine anybody. Listen to this. It's not thinking exactly. That went on trade in economics. I mean what the hell the only reason why wasn't immediately said it wasn't like a king without flows boy all now was it's cloak and he kind of obscure kind of metric language which sounds very very very exact. You know when. I had this discussion backed up. Princeton that you saw the other amethi. None of them were out of nutrition statisticians. None of them understood the technical difficulties they did. They were commentators were thick they. They liked the message. There was one person. I think was the dean of the school of education. Berkeley william. julius. Wilson is very good. Friend not person than a guy who writes for the wall street journal the allston. I mean all these guys were you know econometric weakland's there's no other word for them and they didn't challenge the quality of the data. They were overwhelmed. And this is an amazing piece of work and i have to beat economist and I was probably a huge mistake. That i was invited and i think that nobody watches listens or so. That's okay but the less the message here is very very important. And that's the part that accurate that yes irene. The from a certain point of view. I agree with everything you said but i think the reality speaks out of all well again. Listeners and viewers can walk set video link to it. I want to move to a more philosophical question in terms of policy and these findings of yours and and of others. that are disagree. But i don't think. I think most people understand that family's important. They may not want to emphasize that in their policy discussions. You know one of the issues that come up. We've talked about charter schools in this program. Is that some of the best charter schools. What they're really good at is picking parents not so much students and they find ways to get parents who were driven ambitious and will motivate students. Their parents their children to be the ones that get chosen they. They would have a lot of hurdles on. I think that's true. And then be good reasons for that but it. It does cloud our assessment of these schools and public policy. Generally but but if we accept your point the family's important and i think every parent accepts it because we most parents do pay attention to all these things we do. Try to motivate inspire. Lead our our children. What's the role for public policy. Then what's what's left now. There's two choices here. There's the denmark model which basically says okay. We had a lot of problems with families Differences we'll try to offset those with public policy taxes and transfers to do the best. We can one view second. You would say. I don't i don't like either of these but these are sort of the standard views that are out there. The second view would say well. Obviously if the family's important we have to find ways to make the family better and should we should subsidize families staying together so there's two parents especially as as other institutions in our society are struggling most obviously being the religious community which used to be a key complementarity To the family right the way that religion and family would work to create values and ethical and moral character. That's dying in america. It feels like should government step in or their programs that the government could could activate and fund. That would help. The family might be. Was that state for a thousand reasons but curious what you think well. I don't think the government should step in the shotgun. Their ages the idea forcing stable to families under the gum. Or whatever is not gonna work. i mean. it just doesn't work. I do think there's a larger issue which needs to be addressed and has been historically address. I mean i don't know how much of a work of gertrude emma fire. You ever read a little bit about well. The people i know that pose thinks lowly over at the geez and she jan she was. He's not dead but she was a. There was an element of being approved which he wrote a lot of victorian in and that was a response to poverty of the nineteenth century. And that's that's a response that doesn't we seem that was kind of thing by religion partly by social was partly adoption of cultural alison. Don't think it was a sense of the government mandate eight milwall. I think there was a sense about listen of norms norms exactly and they were the churches promulgated that there was a sense in which we recognize that a certain set of values were very beneficial for society. Ol- you know respecting laws respecting each other. A sense of civility. All of those were basically part of that culture. That wasn't always true. I mean if you go back to england of your early nineteenth century you know you go to these reform movements like the methodist revival welch revive all. There are a lot of these religious movements verda night. The first the second and the third kind of great great awakenings. Those are religiously motivated. They're really people recognizing needed to reform their lives so we went from the poor houses to a former victorian. I make very cruel. Now recognizing taking into account in goma fired. We're listening to this. You are fine but nonetheless. Where work is these. Victorian values played a very important role in kind of motivating people. That's true bribers right. There are a lot of superficiality hypocrites. Nobody was true victorian sense and be game. You know began party. Gave came the open season on victorian ism in the early part of the twentieth century. Eminent victorians linton strength and all of those people but the fact of the matter is there was kind of the hostile force sort of suggesting what appropriate behavior would be which led the movements like prohibition than south now some of that prohibition was a disaster. No and so the question then becomes. How do you achieve that moral cheating. The recognition of those values. And i think that is what probably needs to be. But i'm not sure. I'm for sure feeling that some government policy is not gonna do the having some politicians say. Look to your kids or you. The government policy. That i favour in this regard and i think it does help to an extent and it comes back to your comments on charter school. I think a government policy that kind of bills the role of parents as a as i as a cultivator of morals and motives and academic achievements of the children programs at kennedy courage errands or caretakers. Whoever they are not fascinating in very accessible. That's completely volunteer. You're coming into people's homes. He will say go to hell. And it's like charter school. You're you're criticizing journalists. Who i think it was the charter schools operating as a filter. There what they're doing encouraging errands care about their job. I wasn't criticizing. I'm just for the record. I was saying that clouds our ability to assess their effectiveness no sense if we randomly wired to the population. But what we're really doing where it's an this is something you will don't like to admit we're tapping into something else. Innovate and then navy. Get in the way you just described and then describe to the parent. Look if your kid does go to the charts and you do with the effort. You're gonna do better than you. So i would turn around and say no. It's not like we can randall. Did the right now. This whole group of equal. Doing you know assigned charter schools. And does it. Work does not work and the persistent binding. It works because for the most disadvantaged it does work for the most disadvantaged but the most advantage it in length waltons article dongyue about earlier but that's found across a number of romans and there's a reason for that and so i think what it's really telling you wanna think policy that night and some of those policies policies that are internally wrong. You know for a while the longer true unfortunately big. You know bill cosby at one time that he was free of all of these charges and public controversy was a major spokesman for trying to insist that black parents. Take care of your children and motivate. Now he's discredited but there are many other african american who are doing exactly this role in the song private. That's all private cultural and it's great. Well i i want to actually had a when you talk about government policy. What i see coming in especially now needs business. Whole is a. There's a group of people. They claim to see a big impact on a child development and child cheever. I giving families more money. And what they're doing is they're studying correlation and they're not really and they cleaned to be doing these experiments which show this the the government. The way of casinos on indian land apparently did lead to more indian children going to school except for one little detail that some of these programs have had a feature that they can only collect the money you sent their against the school itself it was basically what was paul in what's called a mexico progressive. There are these incentive programs offered to families to try to get their kids. Go to school. And those seem to have an effect on children especially in rural areas where the kids are agricultural labor so i think there are policies with bidding burridge more active family life. But the fact is that there needs to be a sense in which the parents i mean. This huge group of people having children and not being responsible just not taking into account the wellbeing of the joe loss of accountability. That somehow has been sanctioned you've been sanctioned and it's nude as liberate right royal no it still is you know it's too i wanna you see these stories woman gets and there's oh i was being oppressed. I didn't i wasn't being the true me. i was spending all my time washing. The diary divers and taking care of the kids now could be new guard artists paris. I'm gonna run away from my family. And that's the final expression of human liberation and with it then is the decline any sense of on ability for one's actions including including children and the aftermath the consequences. And i would say the same is true for this. Whole special about masks. And other thing there isn't fundamental dealer for people to the alva campbell. Say we get vaccinations. We get smallpox shots. Do certain things because there is a responsibility to the larger population. And that is. I don't wanna call on a moral duty but it is duty. If you're going to be a part of society you should try to make sure that society rocks. And i think we don't hold it responsible. I mean i. it's crazy. That issue of mass is become a political issue. It's not a tragedy tragedy. It has nothing to do infringing on the liberty of others and has to do with something that every economist knows externalities. What you're doing is you're making easier. The transmitted disease the vulnerable feasible. But we see that's part of the whole era. It's me neil. Think that that's aaron sounding very heavy jello ball on some but not appealing to ir authority necessarily although appeals to a higher authority in earlier era. Where's the sugar but gonna work anymore mountain. Nobody's gonna believe that. The i just think it's too secular society these days and i don't think that's gonna be a fan now. Both ford folks. I wanna i wanna close tom. Gary s right denmark. Even we're back to gear guard. Fear fear and trembling. Actually i wanna. I want to pick a different philosophical issue too close with and we've talked about so far. Which is i think. A lot of our focuses economists and policy analysts is driven by what's measurable generally and we spend a lot of time focused on income and equality of income and growth and income. And it's not irrelevant but it isn't the thing that human beings care the most about. I think the thing that people care the most about is friendship and love connection to other people and dignity and respect and agency in a sense of meaning in your life and income. Doesn't do that we. We can talk about it all day long. It's not good to be hungry. We all understand that. No one's suggesting that it's irrelevant income. But but our focused as economists on income because it is easily measured collected by the government when what we really care about these other things like agency dignity and responsibility and a and a sense of meaning. We're playing a weird game because those are the things we can measure the those things. We develop policies for that. We then see if they work because those other things the dignity thing. It's just too hard we don't have anything say about it. Not in the data set. And i feel like we do what we do. We can look at individuals who need live where they are self sufficient where they are actually taking care. They're making their own way and they're able to make their own choices. And they act as autonomous be you can measure autonomy in many ways in terms of life cycle choices that people go to prison and the people who who take certain actions including actions regarding children mobility where they live. I think we can. But i agree with you when of course going back to one of your earlier comments the way that people have responded to the whole happiness movement Agreed what you just sat. But that's kind of the awesome former hedonism. What the ideas. I just wanted to be happy at my goal in life and in fact i don't even know if that's true. I mean think about what was it always remember the famous book and we when we think about the world the brave new world. We think of those people who are kind of caught up in that kind of drug induced happiness. Stay soma was the drug exactly. Which by the way did have a gentleman. It really was something called solo in a really did exist and it came down from the northern part of india. That's another whole story. There is a there is a flower and you can see it in afghanistan with his david. Put that side. The fact of the matter is not That you're right. It's the agency and dignity. It is striving that we met in that matters and nicci would say that. It's it's the conquest we all know that number. Those a person who has chicago as a psychologist. When you're stupid guy named chick. Mohali you remember that chick. Mohali wrote the book. The book and many coaches and and and like motivators used the book. But it's about the value. Light is responding to the challenge. It's not a goal. it's getting to the goal. It striving now. Richard rob is reasonable written the book. Yep he's been on this program talking about it. Yeah i know exactly so. I think i think he should have more legit molly line. That's another story. But i think the structure of strident and that's the part that people find difficult and i think maybe that's because political. It's easier to sell this notion all not strike that we have these objective measures so in my own narrow interests in child relevant for example people use income is the measure of disadvantage whereas my measure and the one that i think matters most is the quality of the home the environment which the child raid. Anybody knows child with our knows that that's valid but nonetheless the measures news of a policy and so understanding. So that's that's where you're saying you're saying. Is there a public awareness in. Is there a public policy. I can't see many public officials standing up and say respond to lives okay but sank. Their favorite line is what can i do to make life easier for you period. Yes let me take someone else's money. Here's another two thousand this month and something no exactly and the idea and so we really are buildings dependency state and with the intolerance and woods all sense. We're slowing eroding this ability to operate in autonomous fashion. And so even though brooks may say the autonomous agent the free roaming free roaming individual sil- that law are in this common union together. Yes we like friendship but we also want they have a sense that we've done something ourselves however minus what was it valen. When have this book. It was really very good. And it was fully instinct of workmanship. And he really did. He was out of the freud of the early nineteenth century among economists. Any really did sing. We have this deep desire the the have a chocolate some. And there's a deep sense of bride whether it's putting a bottle. I ship inside nick bottle whether or not. It's building your own home whether or not it's even having a beautiful garden. Those senses of calm everybody would save. Even the most destitute welter plant. We take pride in saying look see. I made a sign. I grew by rule. I of this window. My house is a much nicer. So i think most people want that sense of achievement and i just think need to be motivated but the trouble is that now with electoral politics being what it is that different groups and only promise more and more goodies and say you can do it without ever and labor leisure joys. You'll referring to most people that would be years ago. You know. Victor feuds right vic sure he'd stanford remember years ago. I was doing work on labor supply as we're you and we have been traditional labor lesion strata. I remember. Victor asked me a very good west. I'm just not a graduating. School will never decide the of lesion you realize that people really enjoy their jobs and he's right. We sung this song. Everybody not everybody but man everybody. Of course if you're lifting weights in the bottom of lull learns where siberia. My guess is you're doing would. But even there i bet you there. Some villa lift weights much better than those who don't and they would enjoy being a master listener awaits the bottom of the goal line siberia. So i think that that we don't appeal to that aspect of humanity. And i think and i think we're the poor. I think the question is is there a way to proceed. Yes it is. I think what it is is that we not just l. people they're responsible we sort of album the consequences of there being sponsored and then we leave it to them. That's been the guiding principle. Lot my work on early childhood lisa that it's really educating the mother out caregiver to tell people how our arolla it's just the same you have an important role and you can do something about an. It's very surprised. Mini this manage. Mothers well will rise to that They will see by because the child is one thing they value the most white this. This is their creation. This is something they. This is their legacy. I think we if we're clever. Trying to devise a political game being gary the thirty third wards of what really suggesting who really are careful in reconstituting the way we think about what value. I think we can do some. You can motivating it but my only my only criticism of that is that the goal isn't to help their help. Mothers be more inspired to help their kids stay in school longer and make more money. Their goal should be to educate their children into the fullness of what it means to be human being. I think and i think we've lost that. Well i think we have as many people would argue that many of these values now it's even the smithsonian some of the untold sony museum that that attitude sports hard work and aspirations for the future saving for the rainy day that's considered an attitude that is That is basically being wasted on you from an external society entrenching. And i think there's no evidence that a policy of that sort leads to anything zimbalist wallaby life not my guest. Today has been jim. Nick mun jim. Thanks for being part of become talk. Well nice to see yoga. Us always take care. This is econ- talk part of the library of economics and liberty for marie cocco econ talk dot org or you can also comment on today's podcast and find links readings related to today's conversation sound engineer. Free talk as rich yet. I'm your host russ roberts. Thanks for listening to talk to you on monday.

denmark united states Denmark library of economic liberty Russ roberts shalom college James heckman center for the economics of hu rasmi slander arthur denver washington wbz rockwall foundation tatsuno nehring university of chicago senate benny school hoover institution
Episode 255  How To Work With Underserved Communities and Still Attract High-Net-Worth Clients  With Adri Miller-Heckman

Top Advisor Marketing Podcast

40:23 min | 1 year ago

Episode 255 How To Work With Underserved Communities and Still Attract High-Net-Worth Clients With Adri Miller-Heckman

"Welcome to top advisor marketing where you will learn how to become a prolific online influencer, attract more ideal clients and grow your practice brought to you by top advisor podcasting a done for you podcasting solution bill for trusted advisers. And now nor co-hosts up top advisor. Marketing Turk glow, and Matt Halloran. Hello and welcome to another top advisor marketing podcast. You know we don't have a lot of repeat gas. But when we do have repeat guests is for good reason and our guest today is is somebody who I love follow on social media. I'm actually subscribed to. Oliver. Newsletters and mailing lists because I love keeping my finger on the pulse of what? Miller is doing. Because she is in an area that I believe is is wild underserved, and she is truly the expert when it comes to truly marketing to women to help women financial services, professionals grow their business. She's got all sorts. Of course she's an amazing speaker and what we're going to talk about today is something that is going to I think kind of blow your mind, which is how you can truly market to the ultra high net worth and high net worth, but still serve women and minorities with low assets. And still make money. So you're going to want to stay tuned to this entire episode. It's GonNa. Be a whole bunch of fun and one of the things that's happened since address was on the podcast which she rebranded, and that's another thing we're going to talk about but before. I want all of you have a chance to get to know this wonderful person who I care about a whole bunch in love what she does so. First off to the show thanks Matt Glad to be back. All right. Well, let's talk a little bit about how you have gotten to where you are right now with your experience and let's just start massaging our way into what you do for our audience. Well I think the important thing is a financial services with my career from. Day One out of college except for a short stint where I joined the navy. and. Then came back and got back into the business. So I've been everything from a registered sales assistant, the branch administrator to a financial adviser at Smith Barney, and then eventually became a national training officer for Smith Barney, and then the director of. National Sales for women in company, which was a division of city. Group. But every step along the way my focus was on engaging women more effectively and creating an environment where women were more encouraged and felt. More optimistic about getting more engaged and involved in the financial affairs and. That really goes back to a story about my mom. It's what I was passionate about and I spoke it from day one. Now I think what's What's interesting is that when I look back, I shouldn't have succeeded as an adviser. I was a working mom, my three young kids under the age of eleven and their dad had just left the state and moved away. They were emotionally distraught. And I did not I was on salary as a trainee, but I was not making enough to support us. and. I believe a hundred percent that it was because I really created a focus for my business. What I call a tribal market and it was a tribal market women wise women in Newport beach who I was very passionate about helping. That fact alone allowed me to not only succeed, but I was in the top quintile of all the trainees and win you find a focus, and in my case, it's always been women. And you can articulate. Who they are and why you care unbelievable things will happen I mean business just flocks to you. and. So long story short. I in two, thousand and four, I left the Corporate World To start coaching. And spent many years coaching all advisors on how to build more female friendly practice I wanted to help all advisors really create an environment that attracted more women, clients. We all know the statistics I don't need to repeat those. In January I rebranded and the bulk of our business now is focused on inspiring in coaching adviser so they can create extraordinary growth. And that's the focus of the business today. Now, how did you arrive at FEM axe right? And so remind everybody what you were called before and and how you defend fem ex. Let's talk about the branding process. You are. Really an expert in marketing how was it having somebody else kinda come in and help you with some of this. Well. You know it's interesting when I started out I had been very well connected with Smith Barney and having an unusual name I decided that when I started coaching, I was going to keep my name as the title was address Miller Consulting. But Eventually I wanted the brand to reflect the focus on females. And I was at a coaching conference myself. Now I understand it's very difficult. To rebrand yourself. But I was at this coaching conference and make kept talking about this book 10x ten times referrals ten x Your Business and I thought. Oh I love that concept. Why don't we max the business right create a more female centric business model and generate exponential growth and that's kind of where I came up with the FEM exit visor and it's it's interesting because. One of my competitors who she and I don't consider ourselves competitors yet we do the same thing in a little bit different fashion but robin crane abundance of her programs are called the FEM program. So anyway, we knew when we wanted to rebrand and Redo the website that we were to stuck within ourselves we couldn't get out of our own messaging, and so we hired a gentleman from big big story Matt Matt Carroll and he was amazing. At really hoping listen to what we're saying and put new vocabulary and. You know it's funny because everything he was doing for me is what I do for my financial advisor clients. Right it's about peeling the onion really uncovering who you really are so that we can identify what is your message, what who are you really speaking to him? What are you really saying that using financial jargon? So it was. Like most coaching experiences, it was a journey and it was a very fun. Liberating. Exciting journey. We Kurkin, I have been working with a branding company. Very recently because we're doing some some stuff ourselves and it's just so much fun having somebody else ask you questions and challenge you in part of it Adra. Know that you experiences to like I know what you're doing right now but it's a lot of fun to go through this this process with you. Isn't it? It's like. It's like revealing they pulled the mass coughing you go. Oh yes. That's what we do Yup. Yeah when we had our brand brief When they Read it back to us just sat there and thought to myself. I could never have made it sound that. Good right. It's just so nice to have that objective third person. Okay. So so now you've rebranded yourself so it's it's not necessarily ass focused on on you specifically, which will allow you to grow because there's only a finite number of clients that you can really handle. Let's talk about this new. This new program I mean. So so I'm sure it doesn't surprise our listeners that you have a team who helps me prepare for the podcast I do my own legwork myself of course, just because I'm weird like that but. I got this email forwarded from my team about what what Audrey wanted to talk about and in following the email chains that I get from her I just talk to myself, and in fact, this is why you. Why you're here. Is because it's so interesting and I think so valuable to our audience. Let's start at the baseline. Let's talk about where this came from how this came about, and then let's build from there. So I. Think what's and I'm GONNA promote coaches here doesn't matter who the coaches but one of the things that's really great about a coach is that. They can help you bob him. We've and take advantage of Cova, experiences an work at to your benefit. So as were in the stay in place in my coaching, I told my clients I want you to stir zoom calls. We've got a thousand point moves on the Dow. And the old way of doing business as over. And Yeah, you could call each client. So I said I want you to market and setup zoom call every week where you just invite your clients on. And here's how you do them. Because they trusted me they did and they said, Oh my God Mike Clients loved this. It was a huge experience which is opened the door to so many more opportunities. Right. You must be able to look at what's happening in the around us and see how can I best utilize these changes to add value and make a positive impact on my business and those those of my clients. So. Then we get into the black lives matter issue. There was a fabulous article embarrassments featuring. Rene. Client of mine and I worked with her to create her home marketing engine focused on women and she's African American. And she talked about really the way to serve minorities is to dedicate some time to help get them more knowledgeable and understanding of how to invest for their future simply because they don't have the assets and resources, nobody's really teaching them. So this was very interesting thought because. As I coach women. Advisors. Most. Women advisors the challenge they have. is letting people know they manage millions? And what happens is when they don't clarify that all they attract are small accounts. and. Eventually, what will happen is down the road after lots of hard work too much work to be honest with you, they're going to have to shed some of those counts. and. So here I was hoping the advisers helping these women advisors basically articulate you know I would love to help everybody but most of my clients come to me with well over a million assets and have complex situations that really need somebody to help them unwind. That's what I love to do. That's what I'm good at. So here. We are I'm saying well, yes. I want you to turn people away. But there is a way and it's always been difficult for women to do that because they will come across somebody who is deeply committed who has a huge desire to to learn about investing they just don't have the assets. and. So the challenge becomes how do you attract more high net worth clients? And Serve those who really need the help. And that was the big conundrum to me it was a no brainer. And let me giving example why When I was a financial adviser in Newport beach and I shared with everybody that most of my clients were wealthy women in Newport beach. Who needed to get smart about, money. And so in my practice I hosted two events a month that was my way of growing business. It was the most efficient it was the most energizing and I absolutely love doing it. And so what I would say in these events is ladies I know I can't help all of you. Most of the women I, Work West I I only accept a limited number of clans. Most of the women I work with have well over a million in assets. And need more one on one guidance. These workshops. Are How I hope all of you and I would encourage each one of you to keep coming. And so those women often feel so thankful. That you were providing them, you are allowing them and you're encouraging them to come to these workshops. that. They're going to try and introduce you to a woman who does have many. Let me give you a great example. Am I talking too much No I'm seriously sitting here taking no. I love your stories. You know that so keep going. Okay. So one of the events that I would do every month was a high end event at the time it was for investors at one hundred, thousand dollars or more. It was at the very beginning when money managers were popular and what I would do is do a very high end lunch and at the Ritz in those days, the money manager could pay for it. And the invitation clearly said for those that have over a hundred thousand. So after one of my presentations. A young woman comes up to me, she's an artist part of a group who would all become my clients and she said Adri. I love what you're doing and I want to invest. But I don't have what you require. I only have ten thousand dollars. and. So I said. Okay. Let me tell you what I'm GonNa do for you. and. So I want you to listen to this because it's a it's a strategy, but it was also heartfelt. I said I'm going to manage your ten thousand dollars. But this is what I need from you one. I want you to commit to continue to add to this account every single month. I don't care how little it is I. Want you growing those assets? This is what you can expect from me. I want you to keep coming to my events. And I want you to keep learning. And I'm going to meet with you once maybe twice a year. But I'm going to be watching your account in the meantime. As you come to my events, I would encourage you to bring friends or bring family members who do have the kind of sets that I tend to manage, and by God within the month she brought her fiance who at one point five, million. So. There is a way. To do in your business. To manage and to appeal to minorities and low asset based household without it consuming your time and energy. And the fact that you are doing that is also a marketing. Bonus, because it appeals to people that do have millions. Because they see that Yeah Adra manages millions, but she also donates a certain amount of her time to help those. Less affluent. So there couple ways to do that. Well House you there because I have a quick question is very logistical question and I can just hear my advisers thinking about this. How do you do that? In a compliance friendly manner. Well, first of all, I don't see any issues with compliance compliance is usually concerned with financial language in jargon. So here's how I would do it today there. Couple ways I would do it. The way I did it in the past was using my events in creating a series of events in webinars that every woman was welcome to attend. Okay. That was one way, and so because I'm giving an I'm offering this value to everybody. I can then say most of my clients have millions of assets. This is my way of helping all of you. Can that's one way. Another way is to carve out financial advisors loved to do volunteer work. You can do volunteer work. Right here right now in your own backyard. And you could create. A money Monday. And it is a full day that you have carved out. To allow those who are just starting out with investing an opportunity to book twenty minutes of your time. So instead of going and I'm not knocking habitat for humanity. You're going to go in spend a full day habitat for humanity will what if you create a program? Where you volunteer your own time to help those. Who are just starting out without enough assets So you could do full day. Right. You could do a half a day. You could do one on one appointments. You could do a zoom call you could open up the zoom visual and people could log in any time they want for three hours on a certain day. You could do it where you host it and it talks about some basic investment concepts now when I say investment concepts. Be perfectly honest people don't really care if it's a mutual fund an ETF we spend a lot of time focusing on that when people understand why you do what you do. They don't care about that. The details of that. So you might host a series of events where you do a webinar followed by. K. Easy now, understand the other third method is. You can create. A kind of a an abbreviated, a modified financial planning process. Rank. There are a lot of advisors who do very extensive financial plans, but some of them can do a very simple modified financial plan. And so what you can do is say you know folks I realized I can't help everybody. Most of my clients have well over three million dollars of investable assets but let me tell you what I've created for every investor. For, those that are truly committed. We have a simplified financial plan. That we would be happy to present to you, but here's what we expect from you. Because, you do it for free. They may not have money or fees, but you're going to ask them to complete certain steps and then you're willing to do a modified or simplified financial plan. Now. We just talked about three ways. To really reach out and serve the community. Now. Anytime. You're doing any type of events if you've got podcasts if you're doing webinars if you're doing. On Mars when of the greatest marketing tools isn't event calendar It's how I built my business once a quarter I listed all my events, six events or seven events however many I did in three months on this calendar. And hear all these great events. And then some of them would say for investors that have over a million. Or you can then put my money Mondays. For those committed to engaging in their financial future and are not yet at a point where they can generate a financial plan whatever. But now the people that are looking at you they see that, yeah, you manage millions and in the high net worth clients need to know that they need to understand. That you are privy to the unique challenges that they face. Second Women need to say that they need to say it and say and say it because in their mindset female advisors, they think it sounds like boasting. And they're afraid of offending. and. So this is the way we allow them to market. The fact that they manage multimillions thirty, million, one, hundred, million of investable assets for their clients. But we are still committed to serving those. Who have low assets or are just starting out? That's powerful. I. I absolutely. Agree I. Mean You you're going from really a place of you know people are going to resonate more when you speak from your heart and said, if your head the head is important, right but that's really powerful and I love. So in the virtual world that we're living in right now, you have even more opportunities as you were talking to do this right I mean you. You can do a Webinar for many people show up for Webinar your costs really nothing. So webinars. Again. Getting people to subscribe your podcast getting people to subscribe your blog your newsletter. I just interviewed a gentleman earlier today, who's putting out an enormous amount of content on on social, and one of the things that I asked him was the pipeline and he said I don't have to worry about the pipeline because by the time they get through the top of the five top pipeline to the middle of the pipeline to the bottom of the pipeline. So when they get to the bottom, all of the sudden, they already know exactly who I work with just like you're saying, they know who I work with. Self select. So I don't have to hard sell anybody or really turn anybody away because him so much great stuff through the other layers of the funnel. Yes, and you know it's interesting. Even in. One of the tools that my advisers utilizes my savvy women vest on purpose seminar in in that seminar is a section where it talks about it has these workshops for female clients and it's called the life by design process. And many of my clients that are that I'm coaching will take that process and those worksheets and make that. A component. Of their basic education program. So you don't have to reinvent the wheel but. Being able. There are so many successful advisers who get to this point where they go. Now I gotTa shed these clients and it makes me feel so badly. But to grow your business. You need the bigger clients. I used to say, are you still there Matt Heck yes I'm here. Okay. Okay. I just WanNa make sure I heard a little cliques in I used to say to my clients. I wish I could work with everyone. I have three children a working mom. And I know what? I'm capable of and I know how much I give to my clients so I truly have to limit how many clients I bring in. Now think about this, the woman who was at the if the money manager event that I said, I'm going to accept you as a client. I didn't have to do that one I knew she was from this network of artists that had all given me a fair amount of money. So it was a smart thing to do but to I really did. Appreciate her courage to come up. To commit and that she wanted to be involved, she felt. When you do except somebody that is under your would. Like to call minimum, but under your ideal level. They are they feel so indebted to you that they become a loyal client raving fan. But if you do not particularly the most of your clients come to you with a million dollars or more five, hundred, thousand dollars or more they're gonNA send you all of their friends who have no assets. I mean, you've got to be an especially today. This code. We talk about transparency right we've talked about that in this business forever, but it was always about transparency of fees. while. Let's be transparent as to who you are what you do, why you do it and how you do it. and. There is nothing wrong with telling people are realize I can't help everybody most of my clients have million of investable assets but very complex issues. That's what I love and that's what I'm really good at. But here's what I've done. I have carved out one day a month. Where anyone can book a twenty minute appointment with me That's how I help everybody and it's free. So to me, that is a very powerful win win. And you can even share that with your high net worth clients because they may want to send their kids to you. They know people that work in their company that need that. I mean you've just opened the door to so many new opportunities but more importantly especially for female advisors. I have I am very strong believer in the law of attraction. and. I'm very faith in. God is very important to me and I see them as one of the same the minute you start to articulate your real value. Meaning in terms of who you help. We're there at in life and how many assets they have. You are now opening to the universe in saying I'm inviting them all in. And every time you put out there I manage clients most of my claims come to me with millions of assets. It's like a magnet. Yeah. It's like a magnet. Am, you know what Wayne you do this I almost wanna say a by focus or bilateral approach where you carve out certain time certain space certain worksheets for those without assets. Right, you're serving your heart. You're serving your heart you're doing. What you believe is really important if you were volunteering and educating young children at a grammar school. On how to invest money? You wouldn't hesitate to tell people who are high net worth. In a conversation you'd say you know it's interesting I volunteer. To teach eighth graders on how to invest money will. Why limit to just that school? Why not say you know? Part of the issues that were struggling with in the world in the inequities of the world is that many people have never been given the financial education they need to start investing in themselves. And so I have created a very unique program. That gives the. Clients these potential investors an opportunity to get real, High Level Coaching and guidance for free. But. It does not infringe on my time and the value I bring to my high level clients. A Win Win it's a win win win win yes. Let's talk about how our advisers can win win win win in before we do that because I want to talk about your course in what people can do to engage you but I want to just take a minute to to summarize some of the key points here. I think number one, you can hear the passion and address voice, which is one of the reasons we love to have her as a friend of top advisor marketing also on these podcasts because what she's talking about here really is flipping some of the marketing on its head because most of you have been programmed to believe what is the highest and best use of my time from a profitability standpoint, but we're forgetting. Is that we're also being said have a soul and those souls need to be fed to and many of you have been chasing numbers for so long that you forget what it's like to do things that feed your soul address here is not talking about doing something that's you know forty hours a week so that you stop doing your main job, what she's talking about is giving back to people who truly need help. Need and want and will be better for for generations to come with you as the financial services expert as advice and I also want to summarize the idea of abundance. The world is not pie just because I have a slice doesn't mean you can't have a slice to, in fact, there's so much pie to go around that. We should be giving more pie away and I think that's the essence of what's going on here. It's so powerful when you get out of your head, get out of the programming that you've had from when you started selling insurance or when you were at the wirehouse or when you were in college and Business School. This is the way that people are going to look. They want social proof that you're doing what is good not just for your ideal client but doing good for your community and when you can show that selflessly or selflessly as humans can be that changes the whole game. Now, Agri, you've got a whole system for this. Let's talk about the system. Well, really fem adviser is based on my book accused Ladies Room, and so we have twelve steps to creating a female centric practice now. Understand that there are so many men that come to meet because they love it to in female centric practice is really based on building relationships inspiring motivating, versus prospecting, selling, enclosing to me those are very linear antiquated methods that are not nearly as effective today. So most of my my coaching now I do take on a few men that really love this. But again, just like I'm asking advisers who are your ideal clients, what are their assets and what is it? You do for them because you WANNA. Do what lights your fire And what lights my fire is hoping female advisors really uncover their value and articulate their value in a way that energizes. In the meantime you're right and I loved how you summarize to all this in the meantime. Yeah. You need to be giving back and a big part of our program is we do provides free programs right now we're doing the thirty leads and thirty day challenge and it's on facebook can you can go to thirty leads and thirty days or AMEX adviser? It's free so you really want to integrate bull, but in the coaching program that I provide. Everything, it's not a boiler plate program. It's not you adapting to my model I've got a some structure, but it really is uncovering your strengths as an adviser and then leveraging those strengths and then I'm going to show you ideas and strategies that are going to work for you. Right carving out a full day once a month for some young female advisors that are working moms moms that may not be viable option. But it really uncovering. Who you are, what drives you I want you living in your unique? Brilliant. Every day all day because then you're energized. And part of that Unique Brilliance can be coaching people who do not have assets but business wise. We have to put boundaries around that. So that it does not consume you. But I. Love How you summarize. We have souls. And the idea of abundance giving back is huge right now, and so what we shared with you is a way. To give back to minorities and women who have low assets and are just starting out in the investment. World. That Is meaningful work. But cannot let it detract from what you're really really really good at. All. Right. So a website. FEM EX ADVISER DOT com go to the website. We have a lot of tools but if you're interested in the new model in the new approach, I would highly recommend you book a strategy session with me. We'll talk about your business. We'll talk about your message. Worst. Case scenario you leave that calling you'll know exactly what you need to do going forward to really accelerate in creed exponential business grow. And please dear, God follow her on social media. So follow Adri on social media especially unlinked in sign up for her mailing list. She's always giving great little nuggets not so little sometimes nuggets of information that will truly allow you to be a great adviser and to help fifty one percent of the flippin population that for some reason, a lot of visors just don't focus on. So address. Thank you again for being on the show. You're welcome in you're definitely in your your Zona Brilliance doing what you do. Well, you do make it pretty darn easy. So I do appreciate that well, if you guys have not subscribe to. Our podcast make sure you click that subscribe. Now, button blow that way every time we come out with a new podcast show up directly on you're listening device. If you have a guest idea somebody who would be a great guest like Adri or if you have a topic that you think we should cover whether you want Kirk in my opinion about it or have us bring on one of our friends all you have to email me Matt at top advisor Amazon Marketing Dot Com. So for FEM EX advisor, Adri Miller Heckman and all of us here, top advisor marketing we'll see on the other side of the Mike very soon. Are you ready to change the way you communicate with your clients? Are you tired of being the best kept secret in your area? Learn how to become a prolific online influencers attract more ideal clients and grow your business. Contact us today and see what the power podcasting can do for your business could on the contact US link on our website at top advisor marketing, dot com, and set up a call to learn more. Follow us on Lincoln and facebook for more updates. Information. This was brought to you by Iris, Dodd Xyz a platform helping. Professionals become better in business and life through new media and new voices, visit them and learn more at Irish dot XYZ.

advisor Adri Miller Heckman Matt Matt Carroll Smith Barney Newport beach facebook trainee Matt Halloran Oliver navy. bob administrator us. US Kurkin training officer director
6am Newscast

Houston Public Media Local Newscasts

03:17 min | 2 months ago

6am Newscast

"Provoke you just heard about harris county. Employees and visitors in fort bend county facilities are now mandated to wear masks beginning today but as news eighty eight seven giovane herndon reports. It was unclear as of yesterday if fort bend. Schools were requiring masks hours after a judge granted. The county a temporary restraining order against governor. Greg abbott's ban on mass mandate the county raised its covert level to read and ford been. Isd issued a statement saying the district continues to highly encourage all students in staff to where face coverings whether they are vaccinated or not pair bryant winnie says. That's not good enough county. Judge has made it. Possible for them to mandate mass. They know it's the right thing to do. We really really need this right now. Sinned winnie ads. Teachers and staff were seen not masking up on the first day of school. We just heard from the students themselves in middle schools and high schools that the lunchroom's were packed. As if it was pre- cova d- people were not distancing not wearing masks and a lot of schools. People said that the teachers and the staff were mainly the ones that were not wearing their mass ford been. Isd ads it will continue to monitor the legal developments. I'm chevron herndon now in a statement late yesterday fort fort bend counties local health authority. Dr jacqueline mentor issued official guidelines recommending mask wearing the statement says. Dr mentor has the ability to quote issue. Emergency health directives and guidelines for public schools to enforce and that includes wearing face coverings to prevent the spread of diseases such as cove in nineteen again. This statement by fort bend county coming in late last night. over thirty. Four hundred people are hospitalized and being treated for the virus across the region. Covert nineteen cases are also increasing within. Houston's emergency service departments. Nearly one hundred police officers have contracted the virus along with fifty two firefighters. According to a tweet by the mayor yesterday the delta variant though is not stopping big events from coming back to the city are flooring and mart reports organizers. Still expect an impact on convention business though houston i. The organization in charge of conventions and other large meetings says it's hosting forty three events with at least a thousand attendees this year that includes major conventions like the offshore technology conference the nra convention in the world petroleum congress but houston i e. Oh michael heckman says. The delta varian is likely going to subdue attendance. It will have an impact on the number of leisure visitors that will have in the city We don't think it will be a catastrophic impact but it will be an impact. There will be until this. This gets back under control. Heckman says houston. I won't impose any attendance restrictions but it will continue. Its strict cleaning in social distancing protocols standard adopted last year he expects to convention business to return to pre pandemic levels in twenty twenty two. I'm florida and martin in houston looking at the hospital numbers quickly. Four hundred eighty four people are currently in the intensive care unit being treated for cova nineteen could feel like one hundred two degrees later today even though are projected highest just ninety three. I met arab news. Eight seven support for. Npr comes from npr stations. Other contributors include the robert wood johnson foundation. Supporting those working.

giovane herndon fort bend county bryant winnie Isd chevron herndon fort fort bend counties local Dr jacqueline mentor Dr mentor Greg abbott fort bend ford harris county cova winnie houston michael heckman delta varian Houston nra Heckman
Ep 149  Part 2 of The Compounding Impact of Marketing to Women with Podcasts: How to Maximize Your ROI Featuring Adri Miller-Heckman

Top Advisor Marketing Podcast

30:58 min | 2 years ago

Ep 149 Part 2 of The Compounding Impact of Marketing to Women with Podcasts: How to Maximize Your ROI Featuring Adri Miller-Heckman

"Welcome to top advisor marketing where you will learn how to become a prolific online influencers attract more ideal clients and grow your practice. Wrought to you by top advisor podcasting a done for you podcasting solution. Bill just for trusted advisers, and now nor co hosts of top advisor marketing, Turk low and met Halloran. Hello and welcome to part two a three part special edition with one of our really good friends address Heckman founder at fem exit. Visor edry. What are we doing today? Well, we're going to switch it up, Matt. Instead, you interviewing me to interview you, and I want you to think of me as if I was a female financial adviser looking into doing podcasts because I've talked to a lot of advisors patting lot of questions so play with me here bring it on. Let's go. All right. So you know, I I liked the idea of podcasting. A no women love it. They love listening to this things in really want to inspire women. But the who concept makes me nervous. I get a little anxious. I feel a little overwhelmed at really don't know where to start. We would like to really start by finding out a little bit more about. Who you are. What makes you unique and different that way? I think once you start feeling yourself talk through really what makes you you're gonna see that. It's easier to have these sorts of podcast he conversation. So Edry just tell tell me about you told me a little bit about your story and financial services. Well, my wrath focus, I have a website. It's all about women, and my my real emphasis is about engaging an empowering women in. So I like to help them understand how easy it is to really manage your money, and I wanted to be fun for them. So my thought is I've hosted seminars for years, but I wanna add another layer of credibility. And I think I could do that with podcasts. Tell me about your educational events before before I answer that question because you'll understand the method to my madness here instrumented so typically do. A two different events. And I do it consistently host the savvy women invest on purpose in this is really designed for everyone enter inspire her to get more involved. And then I host my life by design workshop, and this is more to take those women who are little bit more committed and they actually goes through a workshop with me. So I take them through the process, and the next step from there is obviously they done a lot of the pre work to becoming my client. Now, they scheduled appointment become my quit. How do the women feel when they leave those workshops? What is your goal? Totally inspired more confident. I mean, the chatter the conversations it's almost like I have to control that we. Well, got really good news for you, a hot casting is going to be easier for you than with a lot of other people who come our way. And the reason why is you already have at least a year's worth of content. Well, if you have two different workshops, and especially your second workshop, which is much more involved where they're actually doing work. We have an enormous amount of topics right there. And what we do with the podcast is. We just take what you're already good at talking about what you're already passionate about what you already know the outcome is which is to inspire people, and we use that to build out a framework for twelve months podcasting. Wow. So what you're saying is gonna take the content that have been using the seminars and break it into smaller pieces at absolutely and luckily, you've practiced this over and over again. So you're over a level of confidence in the topic should be pretty high. Okay. So I thought with podcasts you're supposed to invite people and interview them like you do. Absolutely. And that's that is a great way to increase the the. Listenership to your podcast a great way to deepen your in your influence, existing influence with your centers of influence, and we can absolutely incorporate that into those workshop topics what you do is you bring in somebody who can add content at expertise or out an alternative insight to each of those topics that you have with your workshops. Okay. So this idea, right? This makes me feel a lot better if I'm hosting a workshop or a gut to workshops, I now have twelve months of content twelve podcast contents. Right. So my concern was if I have to find somebody to interview every month. Gave me excited. What if I can find somebody had to do a podcast? But what you're telling me is on concealing, those gaps with my own matern. I want you to pre load all of your information before we even get a guest on. So let me let me back up with our process just a little bit. Because if I threw you to the wolves right out of the gate Adra and said, hey, you need to start interviewing people without really truly being comfortable with this medium. You're not going to shine in the way that we want you to shine in have the connection and the impact with your guests. So what we do is. So we'll take your workshops in. You're going to do to podcasts a month. Just so, you know, so that's going to be the we have found that that is the appropriate frequency. So we're gonna take twelve podcasts. Those are going to be your first six months, and we're gonna get you to practice being on the other side of the Mike with one of our voice towns. So it'll either be we have Erika we've got a couple of other people who are in the wings of who will actually. Interview and ask you questions. So you can start getting more comfortable with the medium. And then that's when we're already in those six months were already starting to look at what guests we should start inviting and surprisingly enough or not surprisingly enough. We have us whole system and process on how you get those guests one prepared to excited and three to share all of your information after the podcast done. So I like this concept enough tell you why. Because if I'm doing some of the presentations of the podcast online on with my content. It really is a making me appear as an expert. But if I interspersed interviews with other professionals, I get to do joint marketing, right it, it's it's super super powerful. It's unbelievable one. How many people will say, yes? To you to be a guest on the show and to how excited they're going. To be because if you follow our system in our format, it's not going to necessarily be a flawless podcast because they're very few of those out there. But it's going to once again, excite them. Inspire them not only to get their message out. But also help you get your message out, and you know, the flawless piece, right? One of the things I teach my financial advisers is it's better when you make mistakes, it makes you real. If makes it it's not supposed to be perfect, right? So okay. So I like the concept, I'm feeling better. Because I don't have to have fifty million people to interview. And I think that process is going to force me out to network, but what if I have a guest on the lousy. Unfortunately, that's happened to me a couple of times. What do you look for? Well, that's a wonderful question. So one of the things that I look for somebody that I already know just from watching their let's go to the networking event. Right. A lot of financial services professionals. Add don't don't do networking because either they think they're above it or they don't enjoy it. This gives you a whole nother reason to start networking. It's so much more fun when you can walk up to somebody and say. Mr. CEO that I've always wanted to do business with because he's loaded or she's loaded in, and we know that they are, you know, an ideal Colleen or prospect for us as a financial services professional. We all of the sudden make the entire conversation about them so Edry now now, I know that you're a, you know, your financial visor, I'm gonna have you switch gears, and now you're a high-powered si yo, which by the way, I I know you are that already. And so so Edry I wanted to introduce myself. My my name is Matt how're I've been really excited to meet you. Really, I'll tell you. Why in this is gonna sound really nerdy? But I followed what you have done in our community for for a long time. And I was wondering do you ever? Have you ever been a guest on somebody's podcast locally, actually? No, have you have you ever been behind a microphone is that something that interest you at all being able to have somebody asking questions about you know, who you are what you've done and at what makes you such a powerful person within our community. Yeah. Years ago, I was on the radio, but very comfortable with that. And podcasting is a little different in one of the reasons why we use podcasting in our business is because it's very casual it's you, and I sitting down just having a conversation really about a topic that you're probably pretty good at which is you. A nice. So let's take it to another look. When I coached financial visors, and I talked to them about reaching at centers than Floyd's. It's important that they understand that. There are some senators of influence the do not set. Yes. So just because you're meeting somebody high-powered, they're not doesn't mean they're going to be good. And so especially when you're marketing to women, I will have them reach out to the center of influence, ask them a little bit of a few questions about their business. And they will say, you know, just had a curiosity. You know, hurry who supporting women or how many of your clients tend to be women. I won't tell them. I focus on women until I ask that question. And then, you know, it's interesting you say that you're asking questions. What do you see are the three biggest challenges women's face in your area in your field? Then I get a chance to see would this be a good center of influence to share the stage with in a seminar that one are they passionate about women are could care less to can they are titular what they do and other inciteful enough to bring value. Well, and how they answer the question right there tonality their pace, they're pentameter. They're they're inflection their passion, all of that's gonna come through by asking those we refer to those feed or questions. Right. That's what we talk about. In the podcast. I'm gonna feed you some questions, but see how you answer those questions. And if you answer them, well, then the probability of you being a good guest on the podcast is high. Plus, I've already made a very deep visceral connection with them highlighting. What makes me you in the situation unique in different? Yeah. Yeah. And the more you interact with the more thinking you're sharing about your practice. So it you were one of my advisers you'd sent you know, it's interesting. Let me tell you why focus on women share my strategy from Pelling message and again, so what I love about. This is what you're saying. That is hosting a podcast gives you. A real purpose for networking. You're not just going out there exist. Hi, what's your name? U N. I know for me, I need a purpose. And once I know what I need to say, what might purposes on it flat networking and just socialize. That's not my thing. Well, in in the other thing, too is already interrupted the other thing too is your nobody wants to hear elevator speech over and over and over again, right in especially if you're elevator speeches. I'm a certified financial planner with Edward Jones. And you know, my job is to help you retire smoothly your dreams, come out your cheeses. Yeah. And so, but if you if you if you attack networking in a different way like we talk about here. That how much more fun is it to go up and say, I would love to flip an interview you want to or you're sitting across room, and you see somebody who's just really animated. You know, who they are? And you right there. Bam I know from their non verbals from their hand gestures from their facial expressions that they're probably going to be a great, enjoyable powerful podcast guests, and you can even use that as your networking icebreaker hate I'm sitting over here. Talking all these really boring people, and I watched you and I wanted to know do you podcast already? I just flat out asked him. Do you podcast already when she says? No, I don't you probably would be really good at it. I host a local there's very specific word choices. I have here. I hosted local podcast that helps our our listeners. Right. Somebody big they're our listeners. Learn more about really powerful beneficial people within the community, and I would love to have the opportunity to interview. What I'm gonna put my coaching. You have on here for a second lane. The financial good one of the things that really annoys me is when the client that was doing a podcast. There was no rhyme or reason for the podcast. So even with events and everything they do to my coaching program. We will have a word like if they say, I run a confident wealth program for women. Okay. Everything you do needs to be about building near confident you, right? And so you really can make a simple agenda like who are you? What is your expertise? What are the three most? You know, you need to know ahead of time in coach these people. Here's what I'm gonna be asking you. And this is where I want to go with its right? So for example, who are you? What do you do? How did your knowledge say about money or lack of knowledge impact your success? This is if you are interviewing female business because that's lot of the women that are focusing on women are. Interviewing successful women. But what are you trying to teach? And the third question would be how did finances play a role in a positive or negative way with your success? And what three things you'd think? Women should walk away understanding about success done. You do it every single time. So I know every time I get on your podcast. I'm gonna walk away with how did finance affect me? And what are the three things I need to focus? Okay. So I'm going back to the financial advisor Progresso unloved this. I man, but I like to be prepared through things. So. What can I do before on contract with you? To feel more comfortable that a ready. Well, I think that there's a couple of things first off I think you should listen to some podcast, and I'm more than happy to share some of our existing clients with you who might podcast in a way that similar to to where you might be going. But the other thing I'd like for you to do is. I just like for you to grab a piece of paper right now. And I want you to write down your five best clients. So. Best clients five. Now this isn't assets under management clients. These are people you absolutely freaking love to work with. So after you get that done. I want you to right after that the beginning of the story of how you met and how you helped them. So after you write that down, you're gonna see one a common thread, and to what you're going to see is you already have a bevy of amazing thought leadership. That's inside your brain. All podcasting does with a host specifically is to help pull that out of you. Our job is to help you look smart, tell great stories and communicate what truly makes you unique and different. You can do that right now you've already done it on the phone. What is the hesitation to just be in front of a microphone and have a different medium? Is that a question or you just kind of could be a question. It could be a statement. I depends on how you how you take them. Thinking of your top clients. I think I would also think about I think I would start building a list of professionals just bring them. People I know in the community clients that I admire that I could interview so Edry the other piece of two, and and you I would have probably tried to to turn this a smidge. But I really wanted to answer your direct question is this is all part of our podcast coaching. So the first month that we worked together we have an enormous amount of stuff that we do we build your podcast channel we buy. You the equipment? We help you set up the equipment. We do all of our sound testing. We create a professional intro out tro Yonne all of that stuff is all part of our package, but the other big component of his is the educational component of it where when you leave the podcast coaching. Call your going to have six months of podcast topics fleshed out, we use a program called mine Meister, which is a visualization tool to help you pull ideas out. And by the end, like the first person, I did this with we had a whole year podcast topics within thirty minutes, and they're like, oh my God. I can't believe it was that easy to come. Up with topics. And then what we do is before we actually hit record. We go over it very quickly. Okay. So this what you're gonna talk about today. Hear the questions. I'm gonna ask you are you ready? Did you warm up go through some of the other podcasts coaching things? But our goal really is to make this easy for a financial services professional as possible and fun. I know that I don't know how many people in financial services who provide services to financial advisers have fun as a core component that actually happens to be one of our value pillars. Top advisor marketing, I want you to get off the podcast today. I want you to get off this podcast with me right now. And I want you to say was fun. I joined I was I was a good time. And we want the same thing to happen with our clients. We want them to get off the podcast and say, okay. You know, what man I really got. My message out of how to good time ahead, really good energy. And I feel like I accomplished something. So what I'm hearing is once I sign up with you. You're gonna guy make through the whole process. Absolutely. I mean technical you're going to set me up. You're gonna help teach me you're gonna get me comfortable with podcasting. What's my job to find people and to enter him? So I love that question. And that makes me really happy that you just ask that want our listeners to know. I did not feed her that question. That's a great question because it's two hours a month. Okay. So if you use our full system, which is our podcasting system and social media system, it's two hours a month. And then we do absolutely everything else for you. So in those two hours. Here's what's going to happen. We're gonna record to twenty six minute podcasts. You're going to read and review your social media calendars for compliance approval. And we're also going to at the end of every podcast brainstorm. What's going to happen next in have you have homework. Whether that is to find your guest or all of those sorts of things. So we we tried to make it because we know that all of you are crazy busy, whether your financial advisers, somebody provide services like you address to financial advisers, we wanna make it. So that this is a great use of your time and money, I think we. Priced at very very well. And I also think that your confidence in into deliverables only increases because as we continue to get to know, your voice the social media posted even more engaging. They're even more you. And with those two podcasts, we turn them into a hundred social media posts for you. And we have a saying here, you're talking about theme, our company our theme is pleasing the algorithm. So everything we do from branding perspective from podcasting perspective. From a social media perspective is all to please the big three algorithms, which would Lincoln Facebook. What are you talking about you, helping work at this on social -absolutely? We take your podcast thought leadership and turn it into personalise customs curated posts for you using your ideas. And your words, we don't it's not a reason to host to host we post absolutely everything after compliance approves it. Wow. That's. Yeah. I don't know if people really truly understand the gravity of that. I mean, you know, making it so we put the social in social too. So part of what we try to do from your podcasts is to pull out what we know will be really engaging to your audience, and and therefore they will come at share in like, which is what we want to have happen with your social media posts. So what would you suggest I'm in? But what would you suggest to being the minimum commitment? Time-wise six months, twelve months. Yeah. That's that's a that's a tough one. It really depends on the the engagement. You have socially right now. So if you're killing it on social, we want you to do six months, then we know you're going to be hooked. But it does take six months to really start getting momentum from podcasting. I mean, that's twelve podcasts in a can. That's a season of podcasting. If you do not have a strong social media profile right now, then you need to be in for twelve months in. No that you're. Going to do you know, what is at a whopping twenty four hours a year of work with top visor marketing about this. Now granted the events that I helped my advisors to their small, right? We keep it to ten to twelve people. But what I love about podcasting as you put the invitation out there. But nobody knows if nobody's chiming in. Right. It's like having an empty row, but you're still getting the value, and you can hold these just reused as podcast. It's it's like an evergreens force of of content and some people wanna listen to podcasts. Some people wanna get your emails. Some people want to come to your events. So you're hitting the Mark, and you can also put on teach my advisers, how create a calendar of events so six months out, and maybe you're hosting events to it. It's really pretty. Cylinder in. It's your most powerful marketing tool, and there's your podcast with your station. You know, the other thing too with that is is just visualize. This you're at the end of your workshop and people are super excited. They've they feel empowered. They feel educated, and you can say some of you are going to end up doing business with us some of you will never talk to us again. But the majority of you will probably do this, which is subscribe to our podcast. So if everybody could just get their phone out real quick and go to itunes and type in a fem X advisor and hit that subscribe button. What's going to happen is every once in a while? And I promise you it's not going to be annoying. Every once in a while, you will be notified that we came out with a new podcast, which is going to support all of the education that you came here tonight. So thank you very much for for coming. If you do want to schedule an appointment there. It is. But we would love for you to subscribe, your podcast just sink to this. We have the most ridiculous success story. Very. Weekly one of our new he was brand new. In fact, he didn't even have a podcast released and he's in a highly competitive market in New Jersey, and he was at a networking event and was really trying to get to this guy. And and it wasn't really working very well and other times, and and so he ended up somehow getting around him, and they started striking conversation. What he said was, you know, I know everybody in their brother is trying to get appointments with you. I don't want it a point with you. Would you just do me a favor? And would you listen to my podcast and give me feedback? And the guy was like, okay. So I just planted a great seed also gave you a Meg a gave myself a great way to follow up with you without coming across as being sales -i. Yeah. You know, I think in the end. I would say that might travel market are progressive advisors. Right. Who who love to be leaders who love the lead the market progressive visors, recognize cannot keep doing the same old thing you must constantly incorporate the latest and greatest it's changing so fast podcast were still early in the podcasting and we're still early in the women's market when you combine those two it's a powerful combination. But. When I put my coaching hat on do not. Set up a podcast until you know, who you are. Your core message. You have a story, and you have a brand because you will you will minimize the impact of your podcast. There's no question about. Yeah. In fact, Edry that's part of our discovery process. So thank you very much, by the way for doing the role play with me, by the way, you and I are going to spend some time off line you need to deconstruct my tire sales process. But we'll talk about that later. But but the the the fun part about it is I'm going to ask a lot of those questions. And if you don't have a brand if you can't truly tell me, what makes you unique and different. We do not take you as a client because you're right. I want successful happy clients. I want people to refer everybody and their sister's house, and if you don't have that you're not gonna be there. Okay, closing thoughts. I mean, you know, you I'm gonna open myself up here. What did you think about that? Because basically for all of you listeners, I just took address through my freaking sales process. So if you ever wondered what it's like be. Sold by us. I don't know how sales e that was. But do you have any feedback for me? Now live on the air. I'm more than happy to hear it. No, I don't will. I do that. I liked it wasn't sales -i because you really explaining it. Right. But I think if I were to do anything different. I would focus more on all the advisor needs to do. And we do the rest. Gotcha. Right. So there's so much that top advisor does in this process. But it almost overwhelms me went occurring. Everything you're doing what I want to. What do I need to do? And they're so little in the first month. You will have your first podcast gun a roadmap a game plan in a gender. Unlike. Okay. Okay. I like that. Any suggestions on my coaching? You know? Oh my gosh. No. I love it. I I. I don't usually have the opportunity to ask questions like that. I don't 'cause you know, either don't get the sale. And then they don't talk to me or they weren't a good fit bright, or, you know, life gets in the way or they become a client. And so I really appreciate that in. It's funny because I had a client who signed up three or four months ago. And that is one of the things that he ended up saying to me was he said Matt you have to be more clear. How easy this is for us. Yes. He said. Not in what a great thing to close the podcast on I want everybody to hear that. Once again, if you go through life, realizing that it's freaking not about you. It's about who you're interacting with not only will your practice grow exponentially. Which you'll have better relationships. You can have a better life, and you're just gonna overall be a happy person. So Edry thank you so much for role playing with me today. This was part number two. We're gonna have one more part and other card is going to be the super crazy part because it's going to be how in God's name. Do we market all of this? So everything you think you for being on the show. You're welcome. All right. So everybody make sure that if you didn't listen to part one you go back and listen to part one and also make sure that you stay tuned to part three we're going to be releasing these very very close to each other. So that you can get maximum benefits for everybody at fem exit visor, including our wonderful guests, Andrew Miller Heckman. This is Matt Howard. And we'll see on the other side of the Mike very soon. Are you ready to change the way you communicate with your clients? Are you tired of being the best kept secret in your area? Learn how to become a prolific online influencers attract more ideal clients and grow your business. Contact us today and see what the power podcast and can do for your business. Could on the contact us link on our website at top advisor, marketing dot com and set up a call to learn more follow us on Lincoln Facebook for more updates information. This was brought to you by iris dot XYZ, a platform, helping financial professionals become better in business and life through new media and new voices, visit them and learn more at iris dot XYZ.

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The Down Syndrome Ironman  Chris Nikic  Living Healthy Podcast Ep. 48

Living Healthy Podcast

34:01 min | 9 months ago

The Down Syndrome Ironman Chris Nikic Living Healthy Podcast Ep. 48

"Welcome back to the living healthy podcast. I'm your host andrew gabella and today we're going to be bringing you all the motivation. You should need to get in the best shape of your life this year today. We're gonna be talking to an inspirational. Young man named chris nicot who just completed his first ironman triathlon. At the end of twenty twenty. He'd been training for right around two years to make this a reality and he finished with a time of sixteen hours. Forty six minutes and nine seconds. That's right he raise for nearly seventeen straight hours now for those of you. That don't know an ironman race is a race that starts with a two point four mile swim then. A one hundred twelve mile bike ride and finishes by running a full twenty six point two mile. Marathon it's a grueling event and one of the greatest physical challenges you can endure. And chris did it and in the process. He did something that had never been done before you see. Chris has down syndrome and by crossing that finish line. He became the first person with down syndrome to complete an ironman. he broke a barrier. That no one really thought was possible and he showed the world what someone with down syndrome could accomplish if given the chance and the encouragement so today we're joined by chris and his dad nick to talk about their incredible journey. Getting to this point so please. Welcome to the show. Chris and nick. How are you guys doing good. Yeah thank you for joining me doing this on zoom. I appreciate it. I question i got to say. Did you guys finish your training. For today guard grudges. This out are being bond role during the act. Mentor writes back to that mental breaks. Yeah active heckman. Ovation jerk interviews. Okay yes i've video games and they're nice all right. I wonder what you're playing. What are you playing well video game. Do you play nice. Alright awesome cool all right. Well you know. I definitely want to get into your routine a little bit later but i i kind of want to set the table here and wonder. Can you explain down syndrome to our audience. Kind of what are some of the biggest challenges someone with down syndrome faces on a day-to-day basis. That there are four major challenges that they deal with on a day-to-day basis Number one is low muscle tone. So chris has to work probably five or ten times harder to build up muscle tone like everybody else. Number two is poor balance A hard time balancing so learning how to ride a bike was a mighty mental task. Took him six months. Learn how to balance on a bike. Wow yes slow reaction time so if a squirrel jumps trying to him he doesn't react same so he needs more time and preparation and more mental training able to react to things and then slow learning every time you want to learn a skill it takes much longer to learn the same skills. I would pick up very quickly so you add all those together. It's pretty minded mental task. Figure out how to do all the things you need to do to be able to do. An ironman yet to two. And i just for a normal person to do. An ironman is unbelievable and then to have all these extra challenges and one that sticks out to me is the balancing like being able to ride a bike Which requires a tremendous amount of balance and to be able to turn. That is incredible. So how did you how did you. What was it like growing up for you. Chris was it. Were you active. did you play. Sports should should on our son cows runs trivia. Gans is sad gear this cows and the app two of the crew so Lesnar man starring flying josh on Go is azure claws tries says. Dozens of dogs was on her house. Were share them but del out. How he you saw the as possible. Retarded contacted Crucial codes. That should always come before. Iron man crazy thorough a To chris or he said was In so i'll are of of. I did Dead argument down now got just read. The taller has a jam. Come on matter damore. Kobe show toward explain our trip. That's up says doug war netted a closet itself. Logbook firi- their vote for parcels aunt tap. Wow krause why did you crash. Amar does love it. He just hit his dad. That's awesome did you. And maybe maybe nicky can talk to this as well but did you was Was chris isolated. When he was growing up was he kind of was. Was there a struggle to feel like you belonged when you're not number one challenge chris and parents like us deal with is that because they're different they're you know they don't learn as fast. They don't participate as well as sports. Right they're not as active. You know what it's like you know you don't get included in the groups. And so chris and others like and find themselves living a life of 'isolation there's more involvement during school years but come eighteen and post high school. They almost drop off the face of the earth as if they didn't even exist and so that's what we saw with chris at the turning eighteen. A couple of a couple of years ago and said look You know his life is going to be a lot like that. We decided we wanted to try and do something different and you know we would always go to the gym and participate but even at the gym. He wasn't included when he wanted to play. Pick a basketball. You know he would never get included in that right. They'd always have a reason why he couldn't play. So yeah. that's the kind of life that these kids live. And what. I think chris has done is broken. Some barriers in ebay see came in and said he's gonna kick down the door of inclusion and said look i. I want to be part of this and i doing. I was away for him to you. Know make a little bit of a wake up call by the decided we can do more. We can be part of the community. We can be included in the tri cloud. The runner slob this wind cloud right we can be included in a five on five pickup games local. Where we're not gonna ever be the best one ever going to be worse but you know we can be included so opened big challenge and so when people ask me how do you. Why do you make your son trained so hard. Don't you feel bad making author ride a bike for eight hours on a saturday and my answer to them is. Don't you feel that making your son stay home and play video games for eight hours on other better. You know again today. The fact that he can do an eight hour bike ride makes me feel pretty darn good knowing. He's he's healthy of us pressure. He's doing things that are good for him and he's doing it with friends because when he video by himself when he's riding an eight hour bike ride he's doing it with ten or fifteen france so that was something that i kinda wanna talk about like. What was it. What did you find in the fitness community. That kind of made him all of a sudden fit in and belong. You know was it. What was actually. It wasn't the out it was him. He started to open people's eyes and they started to get to know him a little bit. They started to realize how much funding he was. And and just how special was being part of the group in so he started forcing himself into the group and the more they got to know him the more they realize what a special part of the group was and how he made a difference for the group at christie's a hunter and a lot of people and he he's very social and so when he joins grew the group becomes more social and people realize that. There's something special about him in. So he forces way into it but now people are realizing that chris and others like him a pretty special pretty unique and pretty neat and so he's actually opening the door for a lot of others like does get the swagger for the ladies yet that i mean yeah that is good. It seems like like what you mentioned like. You're not going to be welcomed in right off the bat. And so you. Almost he had to go above and beyond he had he had to just like just really out and show impress people essentially to go. Whoa okay now take another look like maybe i underestimated this so I mean definitely completing an iron man is one way to do it so That's fantastic. So i do you kind of talked about how you had a setback. A couple of years ago. He mentioned to me he had four major ear surgeries he was hitting that eighteen which is really interesting to me that that that's when we see down syndrome children fall off because they now where do you go get that social interaction right. It's it's not built in with school. That is an is really. Yeah something so we. That combination happening all the time. What was like what was it. That made him. Maybe you can chris keegan into this. What was it that made you take that first. Step to getting back into shape to getting off the couch and making health a priority again. Why resort our hotel so we were sitting on the couch. I was working too hard. We're both kind of living a little light bulb isolation instead we sedentary so let's just go out and have some together. That's how we're glad exercise together. We're going to go do something together. Go to the gym. we're gonna find something to do. And at that time to enact years ago the special olympics where he'd been pretty active started up program pilot program for triathlons here in florida. Never been done so we try to christmas. One of the first sighting three or four participants. And you know we went to a new band and lowly. Chris fell in with the amount. You've found a of people with the the the metals i knew you were gonna say christmas and that's how we started and it was just very slow and very fun. The trial had to be a great environment for having fun and meeting people. And that's how it started so tell me about your process a little bit like you've gone now from sitting on the couch. The lowest point pretty much to now one of the high. I mean clearly. The high point so far in his fitness career which is completing an ironman. What was the process. How did you get from point. A to point b. So we did this concept one percent you explain to them what one percent better from your perspective means so rob yourself one route either. Florida blue gerard By car by growth. So that's kind of the process. We developed this concept of one percent better. And you know it's an interesting process or concept because when you go to a gym or you go to a professional college what they do. Is they work hard. Really hard for now or you're sore for three or four five days after and then you don't wanna come back and that's how most people are The reason most people don't sustain good conditioning and and good development is. They go to hard to fast. They experienced too much pain they quit. They don't go back. We took a different approach. We said look. We're not like the top one percent that will go out and get you know six pack in six weeks. Not so we designed this one percent program where we said frost about lifestyle. It's continuous improvement. It's about daily habits. So he said look all. We're going to start small. And in. Chris casey you know the one push up once once lot or one lap in a pool or you know. Allow one minute on the treadmill. We just literally started small on everything and then we just track that said last. You know yesterday chris. We did a minute on the treadmill. Hey today let's do a minute and ten seconds okay. You're on their minutes. Ten seconds your duck. I know even want the next thing we go. Let's do a couple of You know squats great. Now we're done the next and that's all we did and but then each day we wouldn't pick something we get a little bit more. We go a little long run run. Maybe we go to lax in a pool. We kept that interesting. We had fine. We've just moved from one thing to another and we did that for a year year and a half and essentially from the time he started two years ago. Plus you went from cops ironman about two years getting one percent back. wow that's and that that requires a tremendous amount of patients and in the world today. Where patients is i mean. Just incredibly hard to come by. I would say everything is instantaneous. People want things instantaneous. How are you able to maintain that patient approach. We just designed as part of our overall programs to say. We're not interested achieving anything today. Where interested in just enjoying the process. The problems were interested in in seeing progress. As long as we saw a little bit of progress we were happy and the brain likes progress so we started measuring everything. Chris has this big Calendar on his wall where we write everything down and so if he did five push-ups yesterday you know today. He might skip it but tomorrow he might do six so he could see that on his wall every day you could see. He was making progress and there was always an end right. We started the year on december. Thirty first writing down in boulder. We're gonna do ironman november seven twenty twenty that was eleven months away and so we right long-term goals but we take a day by day and we see daily progress and ultimately the way we designed it is to make it so that it is incremental. And you're seeing progress every day in your satisfied with the progress as opposed soon with trying to make big gains too fast. Which actually derails any of your efforts so we were more interested in a daily habit of contains improvement than we were in any any results or any kind of growth beyond the right and then the results come you stick to the process and the results come in the end so in the results together. How do you nick for you. How do you keep your son motivated. Stick it out even on. Because he's gotta have hard days like everyone else even if you're doing incremental increases that's still builds up that compounds over time. So how do you keep him motivated. During the hard days i'm not always insider sweater. All he has a specific question for you. He wants to know about motivation. What motivates you. What's your dream wide. One thing about that makes you keep on elliott. Tell them what your dream is. That's his Off gangrene what motivates you to keep going every day or to live to or wanted to Death house or cloud might drive off many smoking her blog above bobrov and one day. That is because you order so your question is that every day. We talked about his dream so you know when day. My my belief and chris believes to is that if your dream is big enough the obstacles don't matter if the dream is big enough. The pain goes away. If the dream is big enough the effort is they'll be ill so arleen make your dream bigger problems bigger than you're paying bigger than your obstacles and you're going to be just fine so chris has. He has a huge dream and so nothing gets away and so every time things get hard. Chris and i have a interesting conversation. I always say to him chris. Body as is what i said. Okay everything's gonna be okay buddies. Okay said are you feeling things. I am i said okay. I know that. Let's talk about what's going to win. Chris is it going to be a fake name or your dreams and he always answers the same way. What do you answer my dream. And all and then we just keep going and we. His dreams replace his pain and his obstacles right and so we kind of always remind him that it's his choice between accepting pain or accepting his dreams but he can't have both interesting so Talking about we've talked about the motivation. What is the actual like nuts and bolts of a day to day routine chris. What's your routine Pretty much every day when you wake up till you go to bed do the holy so On bottles their eggs in by ross. John batchelor and much trained on throughout the week. Route three hours today hours a day. Three to eight hours. Wow that's amazing. Gosh what do you do with your free time. If you have any time walls now are we just hear the house racer croc. Why some of the quantum rondo. I'm not as men else. Hogwash grow shis geraldo wonks. So you party as hard as you work. It sounds like a beer. Ribaut saga all my deals with this june. So all right well. I wanna talk about the actual ironman because this is such a fantastic moment for anyone with down syndrome. Just for the finnish community. In general chris the day the ironman where you nervous excited. What did you feel that day excited. we're gonna cross along of Your yard for a while for house. Koroma mother club cured mars chocolate cake. No for year except for your father. Your father ask a dumb awards this classic back and forth between father and son that It sounds like mood. Food is a massive motivator at the end of at the end of the race too. I mean yeah. You can't eat whatever you want at that point racist seventeen straight hours for more. So when i when i briefly spoke to you on the phone About a week ago we talked about you know. Generally disability is seen as some sort of weakness. Or you know. you're something's harder for you to do but sometimes i feel like there's undiscovered strengthened disabilities. So are there actually any benefits or advantages to having down syndrome when it comes to exercising that. You've kind of discovered along the way with chris. So i can't tell you for sure because i have one one reference point but i am seeing things that i think are transferable based on what i do know about the downstream community and that is for example because daylight routine and they like repetition if you design a workout program that incorporates routine and repetition. They'll continue to do things longer now. They have to do things longer to overcome the low muscle tone of the other things because they have Appreciation for and they get comforted routine repetition. They can no longer So that then becomes an advantage because they can increase the case. Everybody else kind of gets signed. They quit early and they're not willing to do as much he'll keep going which will build stamina will build underlying strength for him so when it comes down to seventeen outrace where the average person will quit our ten or twelve or fifteen or sixteen. He won't quit right because he's built that foundation. So there i believe there may be advantages but you have to work a long time to break through those advantages there hidden deep down inside of them that come through hard work and effort over time. So i believe a disabilities or real. I believe abilities real What what i think. A lot of our young and our population down syndrome. They don't ever get the chance to go beyond their disabilities to be able to experience their abilities and see how strong they can be. I chris is a lot of strengths. A lot of abilities that will manifest themselves the coming year and some people already seen him do it with an iron man. They're starting to see with his interview. Skills are and his cognitive skills are improving They're also gonna see his physical ability continue to increase his cognitive abilities. Increases ability to do other things is going to increase. his learning approach is going to accelerate. So i think we're gonna see a lot of his underlying abilities start to serve concert a surface and become a what makes him. You know his strength. So yes i do. Believe that as many disabilities as they have they also have some gifts and abilities that needs to be tapped into right. Yeah that generally you probably don't even get to explore very often because like you said they hit eighteen. They're either shuttered away or they just they don't have that encouragement behind them to explore those areas so Certainly you know. You're barrier-breaker chris With what you've done in completing this iron man do you. What do you guys now that you kind of have this platform. Would you guys hope to accomplish with the notoriety in the fame. I know it's today to smoking hot blonde but other than that. What are you have to do with your platform and your fame chris. All the social media stuff. You're getting that you're reading about. What does that. What does that like tell about that until what it once what you wanna do is our inclusive of the. Our parents simi absences Our hero to kids. We need to stop listening to dogs. Reprint nimbus lee to take the nid off if that give me merely the decree cider go out to be poverty. Community be plugged out To all the house to all the dog issue maters when you say. I could not stop talking the flu view softer you. You can't generate for her. Because i got big dreams walk. That's that's awesome net. I like it. I like it. That's i mean that is good like you said so. It sounds like people are reaching out. Parents are reaching out social media. Saying hey like my kid looks at you now and see something more and and you see you know. You've inspired them in some way. Obviously that's fantastic. That's great use of the platform there. chris what looking at twenty twenty. One what's your goal for twenty twenty one and now you've got big dreams and goals. He did the ironman. So what's your goal in two thousand and twenty one or okay through the origins german. Oh chairman duhr colour horon hawaii. I heard you like the show. Hawaii five oh is that right. Yeah at the at the hulu. Create the hawaii ironman. This great i. Generally we like to wrap up every podcast with something called actionable advice where we can ask our guests to you. Know some up something. That's the most important what they want our listeners to take home from them the one thing they want them to take home to. I think this is a good chance to kind of give you each a chance to talk about this. So i'll start with you nick What message do you want to send to all the parents with down syndrome children. That might be struggling right now. Sure always see. Generally our kids disabilities because we're bombarded by all the experts in the society who don't really understand and we'll tell us what our kids can't do that we need to take care of them sometimes in a loving moment so we want to take care of them. We actually in protecting them. We a- cause more harm than good because we don't let them develop and we don't let them Identify and work toward their strengths to become self-sufficient and come part of the community. Become included live a life of inclusion. We don't give them a chance to we. Don't give a chance to experience. a gift. Scott gave them so my recommendations and appearances. Look it doesn't have to happen fast. It can take a different. Credit can take a couple of years. Go start slow. Focus on your kids strengths. Not give them a sense of purpose. Help them get a little better. Give them direction. Stick with them long until you see their gets Flourish and until you see them gaining the confidence and starting to build both physical and cognitive ability. That is probably way beyond anything. You've thought was possible and invest two three or four solid years in them and then they'll be able to enjoy a full enrich live in the community. Be able to get a job. Be part of the the circle of friends around them and But it does require parents making that investment believing in them and helping them make those breakthroughs. That don't seem evident but happened over time. And we have to have as you said. The patients the commitment to stick with them long term until they make those breakthroughs that will make them an inclusive by the community. Great and chris. What message do you want to send kids with down syndrome Does toss for being there. I i in the war. Asthma country alignment shocks of a ages. You're now pizzas. Personalities are going on social media. That is saying that. Christmas gifts now. Christner chance of needs chris. Yes you about all the other kids with down syndrome south sandra. He wants no the message for all the others. Like you tell about all your friends and what. You're doing even talking about abigail yesterday. But they're doing of this and what you wanna do to help them. Southbound on that The john how are ahead to bother cheers fired to so. I begin chatter his friends about his age. Now they're gonna triathlons really others around. The state with dancing was starting into triathlons. Great though tell me what you wanna do to help others bouncing and others and special olympics along to To be called religion workload religious shoved gives gives you great. That's fantastic. Yeah except what you can do and try and do more and dream big. It sounds like for sure. Well thank you guys so for joining us Absolutely inspirational story fantastic. And we know it's not the end of the story there's a lot more to come sure A you can invite me to the wedding. chris. Can i remember the wedding with the smoking. Hot blonde sure. Hey we heard on the tape. All right awesome all right. Well thank you guys for joining me on the podcast. Today is great talking with you and appreciate your time. Thank you so much. thanks right now. If you won't even more motivation to help you get through. Twenty twenty one. Make sure you subscribe to the show so you can get our next episode delivered straight to your vote. We'll be back in two weeks and until then we'll see you the gym.

chris Chris andrew gabella chris nicot nick damore chris keegan heckman Chris casey Gans Lesnar Amar krause bobrov arleen nicky
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22:03 min | 5 months ago

Alice Ashcroft Kickstarter

"But what i found really funny. And i get whenever i end up in queue especially in a queue you being separate into lines going into different becomes. I always probably because i was raised at the time of doctor who an aerial fish. I always think i'm gonna get converted into a cyber mma. Hello everyone and welcome to a new episode. Episodes settling bruce. Your podcast all about music all kinds of music. Hey i made a change there Today i am joined by multiple time guests and one of my sweetest friends alice ashcroft. Welcome to the show alice so shoving me back again. Yes i am so excited but in case someone did not hear the first two episodes and they should listen to us a little about yourself and i b singer songwriter. From north west england i release kind of poke is probably the main genre is is kind of a bit fakih by demand because i was raised around so yeah i released my music about my own life Yeah jesse's been kind enough to help me on a couple of times talking about the releases i've had. I've lost pleased now currently working on my next album so he very kindly invited me to come on and talk about lot which is exciting. That is so exciting. I can't wait to hear about it. But in the meantime so before we hit record you mentioned. You've gotten your first vaccine. Yes yay it. Because you've very cleverly name fully vaccinated. You're wearing it as a bunch of bono jenkins excellent and yeah. I was really locate in. I got invited alien than i expected. So don't always working from by state as well in america is house out but at least in the uk that rolling out by age group and unless aquarium an ongoing health condition. Get this and similar thing here that we've reached the point where they're now opening. It's almost anyone. In just pushing people We've kind of we've kind of reached a plateau where you know. We're trying to get those. There are certain people that are just are afraid of the vaccine for whatever reason and so. We're trying to change people's minds to say. Hey there's nothing to worry about. There is this is This is a good thing for all of us. If we want life to get back to normal so yeah we'll see that's the way. I think i might get accidentally very political hippo. The country's you look down earlier and close bodas implemented good track and trace system. Have the luxury of waiting to get the vaccines and they have. Because they've got it under control whereas at least in the uk and from what. I've seen in. America icon. I'm not an expert on them happening even when not in a position where we can afford to wait. We've either go to get the vaccine. All life's not going to get back to normal. Absolutely how Where did you vaccine did you. What was your process of getting it. So i got invited by local doctors to go in and get it so yet. The not rolling out by age. So it like sixties fifties. I think right. Now we're on both sides But i think because. I have various help. I didn't not. I'm not like super risk boca With my doctors. They invited me earlier than expected to which was really good Tiger that yeah like a month ago i am. The oxford astrazeneca will which they decided on the day in the uk wasn't safe people in my age. Don't know statistically it's it's less than being the concept his tail in it's definitely gathering in the price. I just thought it was really funny that it was on the same day. I'd had decided it was so i got the pfizer in i tell you what i haven't talked about this on the gas but it was amazing. I gotta tech saying you know come out and so there is this Not too far from my house is a texasmotorspeedway this huge racetrack and So you you drive into the entrance. There's people waving you and And you think they have like seven or eight cars lined in different lanes and the first person stops you and says can see your card you know and so i had my little bar in your driver's license and they said okay. Go up there and so you drove to the next one. They handed you clipboard with paper. You know a document to fill out like you know just simple questions coming in your car. I wo- okay. Maybe you drive through the next. This is all and you hand the paperwork. And they go okay and they put A little like sticker on your dashboard to show that you've been checked. Then you drive into a tent. The lady says which arm. I'm like well here and so my windows were down. She takes the needle sticks it in my arm puts the thing and says okay. Go their weight fifteen minutes. If you have. If you're reacting poorly flasher lights honking horn and someone come out and so you go in you. Sit in the car from fifteen minutes. And then they wave. Yom it was. It was insane. It was insanely efficient. And it it again and i'm actually a little teary our thinking. It now to think of all those volunteers and all the people and they just rolling through those people. Yeah you'll get this. As i am so i don't think we have to drive through the drive through testing in places but not for vaccines. I don't think But what i find really funny. And i get whenever i end up in a queue especially in a queue going you being separated into lines going into different cubicles. I always probably because i was raised at the time of doctor. Who and i always think community got converted into a cyber mma. Never i in a queue going into a cubicle. Like i'm gonna get into assignment pisses well that not to get too political. It's more logical than a lot of reasons why people are not wanting vaccine. Yeah exactly all right well so Let's talk a little bit about your new music so I wanna get kickstarted in a minute. But in the meantime like The last time we talked you had had a your dungarees and I love that single. And i love that. We had a great discussion. So you're working on a brand new full album. Yeah so when. I wrote degrees. I didn't really know what it was going to be a paul's like previously. I've always worked towards like any pay or an album will collection of songs in some way and dungarees was the first time not time sales like i did this as a teenager the first time in a while i sat down to just right for the sake of writing And i think. I might have mentioned when we're on the podcast. Remember that. I think i might tend into melba income. I pay wasn't really certain. And then i was left alone with my thoughts in too much time over the last year as i think many of us have been on. I just kept writing. And so this a attracts on that degrees tooth and some sort of it's to do with wanting to get out into the world and travel which i think a lot of people feeling on the mainland and some of it's also about finding like dungarees i guess am finding comfort in you'll home and being comfortable and surrounded by people that you love me. I've been writing over the last year. Now's like this needs to be an album. I think. I know that one of the things i really liked about You're single dungarees. Is the idea that you're that you're so comfortable with someone in the relationship. It feels like you know. You're putting on your favorite pair of dungarees or jeans as we talked about last time. So i i think that's a great you know theme in a thought The kickstarter is falling or rising by alice. Ashcroft if you go to kickstarter and look for ashcroft's you'll it'll come up I also include the lincoln the In the show In fact. Let me see if i can do this. I've never tried to do this before. Recording so Can i can i. Can i share screen so yes. Don't let's see if this shows up on the recording so you can see right. There's your dollars. This is very exciting for me so You know it. You've got twenty three days to go So this is the thing. I'll have the link Talk to me about. What some of the Tears your offering so visit festival option way. You can just pledge some money any amount of money that you might so because i do know that a lot of people nowadays to stream music on spotify for music so excited if you don't want to buy the music in any way what you would like to help and independent artists recalled music from is an option to throw any amount of money whether that's A couple of quick American a couple of dollars eat spend on a coffee on a very that. I'd really appreciate that will does Awards and five pounds again. Not sure what you're talking. Yeah we understood the singles a bit more and you can get the digital copy album molden. Not you then start get. Cd's posters things like that and then there's one tail which i'm very excited about. What if you pledge a cinema money. I will write you a song. All how five exciting knows got one yet. So i think there's a limited number of them's while because otherwise it might take a while to get. And i just wanted to offer something. Connect say thank keeps people My music can pledging and yeah. I'm very excited. Because normally i would pay for recording and production through 'em the money i get from playing gigs and playing concerts but the last year has made that impossible today. So it's the first time i've ever done something like this. Yeah i'm quite excited terrified at the same times i mentioned before we started recoding excited it has to be you know in It is it's enough emotionally to put out music and then hope people like it but then also to go there and saying hey If there's anything you can do to help me you know to back the sar. But i think one of the beautiful things about this is It you're giving your fans and people who love your music a chance to contribute and make this early so I hope that a lot of people Reach out and pledging. And i wish you a lot of success Is there any specific track. Your especially brought us so the next single that should be coming out in a performance sedona the final day i think it's the end of june about some exclusive announced shoes so exclusive announcement that it's cool when we meet you. I got the final version back a few months ago i listened to it. I just cried. Because i wrote song and i hope the is coming up to two meanings to it. One of them is. You'll hear it go. This is about relationship of what is actually about is a bit hidden on. I'm kind of excited. People pick aplomb the second meaning of the song But will so. I wrote that and it was a very emotional thing to write. I sent it to kaelin. Might wonderful producer. And then we go back and forth resend. I sent him different melodies and he says singles hominy and i sing the hominy and send it back to him. All nice the Back and forth and then he sent me. He sends me demos as we going through. But it's been a while since i had the last demo then he sent me the final version. So it'd been awhile since i heard it. Yeah i hit play in about a minute into. I was just in for our recording at home. A home studio yeah. So it's the first time i've done this dungarees and the single came out last year was the first thing that i recorded because the person i only record when he moved to london so instead of finding someone else because we work so well together i said i have widget of this during to buy and he sent me links to mike ferns interfaces and said by these things and i hope you get selves so i know how like a little mini studio here at home some recording myself which has been a leading cubs. Because i'm definitely not sound engineer. But all i have to recruit. It's the vocals taylor records and produces everything else. So he's definitely bringing a lot to the table. But that's been something of had to learn how to do during lockdown which has been probably something we would have done anyway because you live so far away probably came about the right time. So i'm gonna ask you a dumb question and but please spill You know because this is. How much are you missing performing. Live in some ways. This is a complicated question. I've been asking myself. This was things right again. I'm like won't admit. I think i missed the gig sweat. People came to see me and they struggle woods to some written thoughts. Just the best feeling ever The were a few gigs. Where i would go and i was the evenings payment a pub wherever was drunk. I miss them. I think we talked before you know my friend. Sarah heckman in her early days would play it. You know anywhere she could. And so you know A you know a bar a pub or you know just like a pizza place right like just want some music entertainment you know and i'll never forget someone. said play louis louis bitch. She's just like i do. I need this you know do you do. I need this people at the west. Also the best sometimes yes yes absolutely It can be so yeah. I can imagine that Do you have the ones why people listening and even to you afterwards. Spotless songs and like john what you've written and immed- so lovely people and it's i definitely thought about when you open stage people actively listening. Maybe because i looked at the center of attention but when people actively listening and yet when they sing your songs back to you. That's that's an amazing feeling. I i really miss. The is stop now. I bet i can do that So once again kickstarter Go ahead and plug it again yet. So you can find my kickstarter on my website. Allies dot com forward slash kickstarter. I'm gonna make that link live as soon as we have finished recording you can find links to on that Any any amount that you can if you would like to also rather this year has been really tough. Love people find on tuesday. So please pledge if you can't afford to unripe to But any amount toll is appreciated. I'm gonna be so grateful as you said even a couple of quiz if a couple of bucks helps mesa difference that's appreciated While i just pledged so i'm excited to get new music from you and see what's going on So what else is going on. Are you doing new episodes of your podcast. Oh yes. I'm sent out invitations to people to come in the next series which is exciting. Various authors. Writers with yet is going quite well. I'm quite excited by that. At the moment of so taken taken it in any direction Some changing the full slightly. Yeah that's going to be starting to aquatic the next few months with a new series. I hope in september coming out and remind everyone the podcast name. The cast is called in our woods. And you can find a link to at amazon dot com slash podcast yet. And it's really good fun. If you like writing about songwriting which i imagine many of your listeners. Do 'em all writing books using woods to tell stories than Hopefully join awesome. Why alice thank you so much for joining me for a very quick talk I know that you and i could talk another hour. Just catching up entertaining. That would be to our audience But wish you great success in the kickstarter. I'm i'm i will certainly be doing my part to promote it and i just appreciate you so much One more time Your website and twitter handle and instagram. Go ahead give us your social media plugs so my Spoke dot com my using names on all social media except tiktok because thirty taken the music of good all right. We'll go check her out. Please support our listeners. This is the first podcast. I've done in a while You guys are all know the medical issues. I'm fighting so i want to take just a few minutes of alice's time to thank everyone for the lovely words of encouragement and support the great emails and tweets and posts. I appreciate it Doing a little bit more Talking about my health but surgery scheduled for may twenty fourth. I'm optimistic about it. And so F- cancer and no retreat. No surrender for now. You take care where mask remember to social distance go get vaccinated and let's be good each other because that's the only way to get through this. Thank you and goodbye. Doing a podcast at times can be a one way conversation. And i hate that so please let me know what you like. And don't like about the work i'm doing. You can reach the podcast via email. At settlers in brusett gmail.com. The show is on twitter at lusting. Bruce and my personal twitter is at jesse jackson. Dfw we have a website www set. Listen bruce dot com from there. You can find links to other springsteen podcasts as well as other music themed podcasts. Wherever page devoted to our own selby all star band. These are guests. Who have been on the podcast more than three times. There is a link to our store where you can purchase set. Listen bruce shirts as well as mary. Question t shirt. There is a link to our patron page where you can sign up to help. Support the podcast financially. We have different levels and different rewards based on your support. If you don't have any extra cash and right now who does you can sport the podcast by subscribing the your favorite podcast player and leaving us a review. The more reviews we have the easier. It is for people to find us. And please tell a friend about the podcast. Especially if they love bruce or music because it will make a difference. You just heard the fun talk. Music album rating ban thanking joy spreading leered readings storage sharing podcasts. That is one the settlers bruce said. Listen bruce is part of the southgate media podcast group. The theme for settling bruce was written by david roseanne used by permission.

alice ashcroft fakih bono jenkins alice uk America astrazeneca kaelin bruce jesse boca pfizer mike ferns oxford Ashcroft ashcroft england Sarah heckman louis louis bitch
Os Podcasts esto entrando no Banheiro - P&G lana escova de dentes com ALEXA

RSS News I O Podcast de Not�cias para Podcasters

10:48 min | 1 year ago

Os Podcasts esto entrando no Banheiro - P&G lana escova de dentes com ALEXA

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Think Again: Adam Grant on the Power of Knowing What You Dont Know

Women Amplified

44:58 min | 4 months ago

Think Again: Adam Grant on the Power of Knowing What You Dont Know

"I read some research showing that when white men advocate for diversity. They don't get punished for it. They actually sometimes get rewarded for. What a good guy. He cares about people who don't look like him and sadly the same data. This is david heckman. Stephanie johnson and their colleagues. The same data showed that when women and minorities advocated for diversity. They tended to face a penalty for as if they were being self serving nepotistic to advance their own greek. And when i learned that. I said not. is it my place. It's actually easier than it is for a woman or a person of color to advocate for diversity and inclusion that was adam grant organizational psychologist warton's top-rated professor for seven straight years and bestselling author of five books. Hi i'm celeste headley. Welcome to women amplified from the conferences for women. Starting in july women amplified will add a third episode each month. That's a good question. It's where our listeners can apply to be a guest and work with me to solve a real life problem that you're facing at work for in life if you're interested. All you have to do as a submission forum on at conferences for women dot org slash podcast and if you're selected our producer will reach out directly and take it from there. Real people action based problem solving expert advice now. This episode is a replay of an extraordinary conversation. I had with adam grant at the twenty twenty one california conference for women in an increasingly divided world many of us favor the comfort of conviction over the discomfort of doubt resulting in silent thinking leadership and workplaces. Adam grant top about this in his new book think again and he challenges all to explore the power of knowing what we don't know to become stronger and more flexible leaders contributors. Let's get started way. High adam thanks for joining us so last such a treat to get to do this with you because you specialize in having great conversation. So i feel if you'd be beneficiary of that well hopefully this will be one of them. I mean the book is called rethinking. It's a very well argued. I guess manifesto on why we should think more than once. And i wonder this quality of decisiveness. Why do you want us to rethink that. As sort of a virtue. I think decisiveness overrated. But i reserve the right to change my mind about that. Let's i think the big problem with decisiveness is in really prevents people from learning. Because if you're expected to act quickly and always know with the right answer. It's then when you uncover new information. It's too late and you can't reverse your decisions. You can't look back and say well you know what navy i shouldn't do that. And i think what that means is too many of us and of doing are rethinking in hindsight as opposed to with foresight right. I would much rather have people in the middle of a decision. Say let me take time to try to get all the knowledge that i need to figure this out than to look back and say i have so many regrets and i wish i had reconsider that choice and i think this is true in every domain of our life. I can't tell you how many former students fell victim to psychologists identity foreclosure where they got tashaun an image of who they wanted to be in their careers and they got laser focused on being a lawyer or a doctor or a banker and then ten years into the career. They look back. And say. I really wish i had thought that. But it seems like it's too late and i. I was really grappling with a lot of indecision in college in the way i dealt with that was to try to be overly decisive and and that was a huge mistake. We see it when people over commit to romantic relationships we see it even with people getting attached to the wrong place to live. And so i'm not gonna say that we should all be trapped in analysis paralysis. But i think a little bit of indecisiveness is a password absorbing new information maybe better choice. Do you make about well. I mean i totally agree with that. I think i mean this is obviously so crucial for leaders whose decisions can have an impact not only in the business on so many people's lives and yet one of the things you talk about. Is the expertise trap which could make it even difficult for leaders to think again that has become more knowledgeable about their area and experts in their field. It makes it more difficult for them to come at things with this beginner's mindset. Yeah well let's be clear. That's more common among men than women in the data but we do see across the board that when people become really experienced in a field. Their risk for what psychologists would call cognitive entrenchment. Which is where you're so steeped in a particular set of assumptions and it doesn't even occur to question them and the data in this are pretty fine. So there's research on expert bridge players for example. Where if you just change up the rules a little bit they actually perform worse than novices. Because they're so used to their old strategies it's hard for them to rethink this and if you take experienced accountants and you introduce a new tax law. There are slower to adapt to that then people who are pretty inexperienced accounting again because there's less to unlearn there. And i think that is probably fair to say the more expertise to gain the more you should become aware of how little you now and more excited to learn new things and again. I think this is something where we look at confidence gaps. We see men on average leaning a little bit more toward the arrogant side and women leaning a little bit more towards the under confidence side but this can admit anyone as you accumulate experience and expertise. It is often talked about the one. It's especially true with women. This idea of the impostor syndrome. And i found it really interesting to find that you don't see imposter syndrome necessarily as a bad thing. Well i'm still the process of rethinking. Not so definitely gonna be open on this one. But i have a pretty interesting surprising. Take on this. Which comes. From one of our former doctoral students bassima tewfik she's now. Mit professor and basinas original insight. Was that when we talk about. Feeling like an impostor we actually turn it into a bigger problem by calling a syndrome like it's this chronic disease where you're wandering around constantly thinking that you're not worthy of your success and everyone's gonna find out that you're up and if that's what you're feeling that is going to be debilitating in a lotta ways right. I wouldn't that on anyone with a observe those the that's a very tiny fraction of the population and that most women and most people grapple with more often. It's just having imposter thoughts where you know in a given day you wonder will. Am i good enough or have i lost a step and she wanted to know when those thoughts crop. What do they do to our performance and she found there. Were not any costs of having those imposter thoughts more frequently. She studied investment professionals and medical professionals and she found that they perform equally well regardless of whether they had regular imposter thoughts or rare imposter thoughts. She even founded there. Were some upsides of it. That people who had imposter thoughts more often as investors were more likely to second guess their decisions which amanda they made better judgments that medical professionals who had imposter thoughts more often were less likely to interrupt and steamroll their patients and more likely to actually ask questions. Listen realizing i don't know everything. And i should probably find out what. The patient's concerns are and coaching here. Bet that feels like something that could be useful right big when you start to wonder. If you're an impostor to say all right this is gonna take at still. It's going to remind me how much i have to learn. And i should keep going that allows us. I guess to embrace feedback in a way that maybe we haven't before if you embrace that sense of. I guess imposter burn. Maybe not knowing the answer every question it might also allow us to except somebody else correcting us. You were a junior olympic diver and you have talked a lot about how being in sports helped you learn to take feedback. How do we translate that knowledge that you gained into our workplaces especially as leaders. I think there are a few things we can do. The first one is. I remember a few years ago. Asking sara blakely how in the world did you have the confidence to start specs. She said honestly. I didn't i didn't know anything about building a running a business and you nothing about fashion about retail and so i didn't have any confidence in my current knowledge and skills would. I did have confidence. Though was around my ability to learn she said basically. I was confident in myself as a learner and a lot of us have thought a lot about growth mindset. I think it's one recognized that people can change. It's another thing to reflect on your own experience and ask yourself how much have i changed. And i think anybody can just do this. Quick exercise something. I've used in my own research. You just paused for a second and think about something you were initially bad at and ultimately became pretty good. So let me ask you for an example of this. Is there something you started out. Terrible that you got either mastery over a comfortable with. I don't know of mastery. But i used to be terrible at saying no. I had a terrible time. That guilt was too much for me especially when the request was coming from somebody that i knew and liked and i have gotten a lot better at doing that and more protective of my schedule. Love how i had to. It's sort of like exposure therapy. I mean i think what i did actually was up for a while for a good three months. I turn to everything. Down literally turned everything down and i just used exposure therapy to force myself to do it over and over and over about how much i love. The person and i got over. You know it's one of those things where when you force yourself to stop dreading the worst thing that can happen and actually think what is the worst thing that can happen. It turns out. It's almost never being eaten by renaissance. So true what i love about that. Example is you can see then. You had a strategy for learning and for you. It sounds like that was just immersing yourself in this thing that you were afraid of until it became second nature exactly. That's exactly what sara blakely did she said all right. She literally went and read a book on how to write a patent for dummies so that she can write her own. She drove around the house. Ary mills and just ask people. Can you teach me how this works. And there were people willing to teach her and she was excited to learn and obviously that worked out pretty well for space. I think that along the way a lot of us gets us feedback and i think stadium. That learning mindset can be really card. My favorite thing. I've learned comes from she and doug stone and their basic advice was whenever somebody gives you feedback. That is for score but say you feel like you've got a c. minus for the presentation you gave or for the report that you turn. You cannot change that c. Minus even though i will tell you students of tried a lot of times. Sometimes their parents even try to the grain has already been hermits right. The judgment that led to the feedback has already been been made not sure for score. All you can do is try to a the second score which is to say. I wanna get an a plus for how well i took. The c minus. I found this immensely useful in my own work as a teacher. For example when. I do my mid-course back forms. I asked the students to tell me all the ways. The course can get better and some of the feedback is really tough especially early in my career. My students road that. I reminded them of a muppet. I was so nervous. I was causing them physically shaken their seats which was a little painful only much later. Did i realize oh cool. I have to let the. I can send my emotions across the room but that idea the second score was just. It was immensely useful because i was able to say. Look i can't change that feedback. All i want to do is show them that. I can take it and i think reminder does is it it gets me out of the mode of trying to prove myself and into the mindset of trying to improve myself. Obviously it works. I thank you been the top professor at wharton. I seven years running. I have that wrong along time. This strategy that you're talking about in your book though about training yourself disciplining yourself to think again and again this changes who you hire if we're not emphasizing as values decisiveness but also for not emphasizing. People who might agree with us and support us the we get a different team around us. What kind of person than are we looking for. I think one of the mistakes that we make an interviews a lot. Celeste is we listen to people who think fast and shallow as opposed to paying attention to people who think slow and deep and i think we all know. Slow thinkers coup don't immediately stumble onto the eureka moment but ultimately processing much more thoroughly and have more creative ideas for us to consider challenge us rethink some of our assumptions. So when things. I started doing a job interviews based on this is i've actually started giving people some questions in advance and i don't wanna know how you are your feet. I want to know how much thought you put into the question that i asked you in some cases might even ask you for example. Which is something. We study in my world of organizational. Psychology will not where the first time i ever did this. That was hiring sales people. And i wanted to see if they could sell and instead of asking them to tell me how good you are selling. I gave them a rotten apple and gave them some time to prepare and said she leaves so this rotten apple because if they could sell that they could sell anything and the best salesperson. I ever hired. Who was one who came in and said all right. This may look like a rotten apple. But i'm actually selling apple seats which you can plant in your backyard and celebrity you cheaper than if you went to a store and bought a pack. There's also the saying that an apple a day. The doctor away. And i have these aged antique capitals. And you'll need to eat one of these a week to keep the doctor away. And i had to do an ethics assessment before i said yesterday the higher. But it's amazing how much you can learn when you give people a chance to demonstrate their skills as opposed to just talk about him. It is difficult though especially in the workplace and people have their own identities wrapped up in who they are at work and that can make it difficult both as a leader when you have to give feedback to someone else or as an employee when you have to either interact with one of your colleagues or with your leaders with this sort of two way street of feedback. How do we make it easier for ourselves to give that kind of feedback but also make it easier for the other person to take it. Well well i think for me. The biggest way. I've overcome this barrier. And i felt a lot because celeste is you know. I'm a highly agreeable person. I like to please other people. I don't wanna hurt anyone's feelings. I guess i want to be light and so a lot of my life. I've shied away from giving constructive criticism. And i've realized that that's a selfish decision because i'm privileging my own discomfort over what might benefit the other person and when i framed it that way. It's so much easier to do to say you know what the people who have given me. The most helpful guidance in my life are the people who are not just my support network. The people who cheerlead for me and encouraged me there might challenge network by most thoughtful. Critics could find the whole semi work and try to help me get better and i wanna be that person. I want to provide a challenge work for the people who success. I believe in whose potential i want to support. I think that's been really helpful on the the giving side. The other thing is if you'd give her that i've done is to ask people if they want feedback knowing that it's pretty easy. It's ambushed someone and make them feel blindsided. If you just dump it on there and so i might come to you. And say hey. It's less as watching this incredible conversation that you did and i notice a couple of things and i wondered if you're interested in any of my life. Nobody ever says noted that and once they bought in it feels much more like a conversation as opposed to an onslaught. Yeah we bout. You let me ask you when you give feedback as somebody who has mastered the art of conversation. How do you get comfortable giving it. I like you don't give unsolicited advice. And i warn people. If you're asking for my feedback. I'm gonna give you my honest feedback. So is that what you want. But i'll tell you what i don't do. I do not do that compliment sandwich. Some people were trained to do or you say something nice. I find that ridiculous and inauthentic and awful so i'm merely just sort of prioritize it i say well let's go from the things that are minor in super easy to fix the things that may be more foundational and a little bit may take longer to address and i also give them an out by saying look. This is just my perspective on one day. So if you want flesh this it won't hurt feelings in the least and it's incredibly helpful. I think there's so many times people give feedback. They act as if it's the objective truth as opposed to just point of view which sometimes data driven but sometimes involves a lot of tastes. And i think to your point. It's helpful in a lot of situations to say. Yeah this is only mighty and credit reaction. You might wanna gather feedback from a few other people and see if it's consistent or not and i guess one things have gotten really curious about you. Mentioned that feedback. Sandwich strongly agree with you that it does not taste as good as it lets. The research on this is kind of fun because the first risk that comes into play as if you give people a compliment and many criticism and then complement people who are extremely emotionally reactive and sometimes even call themselves neurotic. Don't even hear the compliments on either end because they're so anxious about the criticism and that's all they can focus on and then people who are more emotionally stable might miss the criticism because privacy and recency effects dominated memory so they remember what happened first and last but not in the middle and then there's also this weird experience a just waiting for the other shoe to drop when somebody opens with a compliment. We'll are you just trying to butter me up and so one of the things i've been trying lately that i read some experiments on is just opening my asking. The person just saying look at making a practice to try always highlight strengths and areas for permit. So i'll never come to you without both you. Tell me which one do you want. I want to be really clear. And it's great. Things that i think are really effective. Or where you're excelling or different from the areas where. I think you might have some room for growth in your book. You're trying to train people or teach them how to train themselves to think again. One of the ways is through our interactions with others. And that's kind of what we're talking right now like people can correct you and say. I don't think that sounds very good. I wonder how you tell the difference between disagreements that are possibly constructive and disagreements that are just arguments when maybe someone is simply being contrary. Yeah i think for me. It comes down see probably three things. One is the source series. The motives three is the message. So the source. Would i wanna know there is. Is this incredible person. Not just in general but on this issue all so. My mom spent thirty years as an english teacher. I will always take feedback on the oxford comma. That doesn't mean that she is always the best person to give me advice on how to give a tedtalk right. And so i try to. I try to do a context. Specific assessment of is this person believable on this issue. The second thing. I wanna pay attention to is the motive. Why are they telling me this resist. Somebody insecure or envious. And they're trying to take me down in order to a notch or is this somebody who's generally challenging needs to try to help me improve in some way or they pushing me because they care about me and then the third is really just to the heart of the message and ask okay if i took this seriously if i resisted temptation that so many of us feel to say well. You claim feedback is a gift. Can you point me to the returns. Department can resist -cation. And if i took this feedback seriously would it make me and if i can check those three boxes than that is a real gift. As opposed to unwanted. Please exchange this for me okay. So what can i do if i read your book. I'm totally convinced. What's the first thing. I need you to begin. Training myself in the habit of thinking twice. I think the first thing is to catch yourself in the mindset to get in the way of thinking you get so my colleagues lock wrote a brilliant paper about this two decades ago and what he observed was we spend a lot of time thinking like prosecutors preachers and politicians and just to unpack these quickly. When you're thinking like a preacher you're basically defending sacred belief and trying to proselytize. It's everyone else when you're thinking like a prosecutor you're trying to win an argument and that means you have to prove the other person wrong and if you spend a lotta time preaching in prosecuting. You don't do a lot of rethinking. Because if i'm right and i know you're wrong then it's you who needs to rethink an idea to freeze my opinions. And then when you're thinking like a politician you look a little more flexible. Politicians are trying to campaign for other people's approval. So you might have an audience who you want to like you and you do all this lobbying and you might tell them what they wanna hear. But you're just changing what you say not what you really think. And so you're kind of going along with the tribe. As opposed to pursuing the truth. Would i want people to do is to recognize these characters and this is just endlessly interesting to me as an organizational psychologist. Because i've never worked as a preacher a prosecutor or a politician and yet i catch these occupations kind of wilting into my mind every once in a while and so i would just say recognized that right when you are so sure that you're right or somebody else's wrong or when you're flip flopping just to get somebody else's buying you know that you're not being honest with yourself or with them and i see these characters in my head all the time now so that would be the first step by sorry to interrupt. But you want people to think like a scientist as you were describing thinking like a scientist. I said well that's also journalists. Do you could also like attorney me more about that. Well i mean a journalist. You literally have to train your mind in how to consider voices credibly and to see people whose opinions are absolutely opposite from your own personal opinions as a significant and that they have standing which is not exactly the same as the scientific method. But it's still a discipline that you have to go through so that you don't crowd out voices that you're seeking other sources that you disagree with. It's not a point of view that many people actually use these days. I think that's brilliant. Where were you a year ago. Before i turned in this book i will tell you celeste. Wyoming's i've been rethinking. Is this idea of. What is the best alternative if you wanna be open minded. What's the most effective alternative preaching prosecuting politicking. And as you know think again. I tried to highlight the benefits of thinking like a scientists because in our because there's this incredible study of italian entrepreneurs where they go through their all pre revenue and they go through a three to four months crash course in how to start a business with they don't know. Is that some of them have randomly assigned to think like scientists. And there's hold look your strategy is just a fear. Why don't you go into a customer interviews like journalists to your point to develop some hypotheses about whether your strategy is going to work in this market or not and then think about the minimum viable product or a service that you can test out as an experiment to figure out whether your hypotheses are right and wrong and the effect is just staggering. The control group averages less than three hundred dollars in revenue during the experiment. The group has just taught to think like a scientist averages over twelve thousand dollars in revenue and the main reason is because they pivot more more than twice as likely to throw out about strategy and say noah. I'm not gonna let my ideas become identity. I tested the hypothesis. It didn't work when i am found troubling about this though. Is that not everyone. Wants to think like a science. Necessarily right you picture. Someone wearing loud code or pure can do a microscope. And i love the idea that you've just extended that and said what you're really after. Is you want to have the humility to know what you don't know and the curiosity to learn new things and scientists do that because they're pursuing the truth but soda journalists and so i would say think like a scientist or like journalists right and that is a new thought for me. I am so grateful you brought that up. I'm so glad because journalists also one of the things you are trained in is how to find the right source right. If you wanna talk about constitutional law you don't get hopefully a pundit. Was it opinion on everything you get a constitutional law professor and you get the right source for the material. It's interesting though. Because one of the things that you ask people to rethink and it's not just in this book but for ears. Now you've been asking people to rethink defining a success in leadership as jest. Success like the goal is to succeed. Tell me about how your thoughts on our definition of success have sort of evolved and why we might wanna rethink them. Well i think too. Many people define success in terms of wealth and status. And i'm not going to say that those are important metrics to judge whether somebody's accomplished anything right. I think that there's nothing wrong with pursuing a sense of financial security and also wanting to be respected and admired by other people. Think that if there's the only markers of success than people ended up to focused on extracur- awards and to middle and intrinsic motivation. And i think when most people talk about intrinsic motivation they're talking about passion enjoy work and i think we need to expand that because i believe so lasted most meaningful way to succeed to help other people succeed. If you're somebody who succeeds in ways that make other people successful if you elevate people as opposed to undermining then you don't have to choose between generosity and achievement right. You can actually help other people as part of your definition of what it might mean to be a servant leader. And i guess what that's made me rethink is the idea that we mark our progress as leaders in terms of the tangible results. We created. I think we should mark progress also in terms of the character that we developed and i really wish that more leaders would ask themselves okay in the past year. Did i become a more generous leader. Did i gain an integral improve my humility. Did i not in the sense. Having a low opinion of myself but in being grounded and seeing my own limitations as well as my strengths and i think as we pursued growth in our character not just in our career we would probably live in a world where people can achieve the same success but also do it with a little bit of virtue. What do you think. yeah that echoes. Some of the things that stephen covey used to say about the difference between the personality ethic and the character ethic it would be great. If we would lose around back to character. That would be awesome. I mean we have just a couple minutes left before we go to audience questions. We'll take a break and then we'll come back with an audience questions for you. But i really wanted to ask you because i bet you and i ended up reading a lot of the same study reports and if you read a big bulk of the research out there right now you could be very depressed about the human beings ability to change their mind. There is a lot of evidence that we very much struggled to change our opinions on things. And i wonder how you keep your optimism about that particular area about our ability to fight confirmation bias and expertise trap and all the other things that sort of get stuck. I think i'm optimistic. Because a lot of people are frustrated. With how little rethinking they do and they were going to change that right in some ways. Twenty twenty was the year of force. Rethinking where we did not do it right. We didn't want to rethink whether it was safe to eat in a restaurant or hugger grandparents grandkids. Or how in the world. We can work productively at home when we're managing three kids and online school the same time. But we had to rethink those questions. I think a lot of people. Final rethought their responsibilities for being anti-racists not just for not being race and my hope is that in twenty thousand twenty one. We get to do more deliberate more intentional. Rethinking that we do it. Proactively as opposed to being dragged into it. And i guess that brings me maybe thinking through some practical steps we can all take both to be more open minded ourselves and to bring that out in other swear. Do you wanna start where you start. I think probably with ourselves right. Compassion for yourself has come before compassionate. Brothers let's do it so one of my favorite things. That i learned will writing think again was from a super forecaster who competes in tournaments to predict the future. The lesson is really simple. Which is when you start to form an opinion. Make a list of the circumstances when you change your mind and when that does is it keeps you honest it allows you to say okay instead of letting that idea become identity or my college. Eminent maintains a mental flexibility. And if one of those boxes get checked. That's an excuse for me to reconsider. And i guess the other thing that that speaks to is something i've watched for years is as we talked about earlier. People getting stuck on a career path that they regret they say but already invested two years in this and my reaction is. I'd rather admit now that you wasted two years. Then see waste the next twenty. And i don't know that the pandemic is the best time to make a big new commitment. Maybe not definitely a good time to run an experiment and see what you learn and the experiment i would recommend is advise my students to do career checkups even just twice a year. Where just like you go to a doctor or a dentist would nothing's wrong just put a reminder in your calendar and ask yourself. Is this job still measuring up to what i wanted when i took it is this culture actually bringing out the best and have i reached a learning plateau for a lifestyle plateau and i think it's a good reminder to be open to rethinking that doesn't mean you have to change your mind. It just means that you wanna be receptive to reconsidering some assumptions. That me no longer holds in your life or your job. I can keep asking you questions forever. But i can't because have audience questions against you. We are going to take a short break here. So stick around. We'll be back with some questions from the audience. These auburn submitted. It advanced cnn. You're listening to a replay of conversation with adam grant from the twenty twenty one california conference for women. Registration by the way is now open for this year's virtual texas pennsylvania and massachusettes conferences. For women happening this fall to find out who speaking and get your ticket visit conference for women dot org. This may be the last time you can attend one. Where all three of our conferences from anywhere in the world. So i highly recommend considering it as an investment in yourself. Do you have a worker career problem that i show could help with finding our listeners to help us create a new segment for the show called. That's a good question. Tell us about your problem using the form on our website and if you're selected by our producer i'll have you on the show to work through solutions in real time. You can help yourself and help other women at the same time. If you are experiencing a challenge. I bet many others are as well to learn more and submit your problem. You can visit conferences for women dot org slash podcast. Now let's get back to the conversation so adam. Are you ready. Oh i'm ready bringing okay. Is there a leader either current or historical that you think does or has done a really good job of rethinking their assumptions. Let's go just into ardern. And abraham lincoln great okay. let's hear about zenda. Think admire most. About just a no was she was really willing to rethink what policies to implement as soon as word of the pandemic came a lot of leaders worldwide were very hesitant about lockdowns and understandably. So you don't want to interfere with anyone's freedom. But i think she also recognized very quickly that the pandemic threat not only to people's freedom but also to their lives and i think her swift action but also her willingness to reconsider the way that she showed what i would call confidence. Humility to say. I think because of all this uncertainty around the pandemic with there are a lot of things we don't know about coded. We need to act quickly. But then we're going to learn new things and we're probably going to evolve our policies. And i can only wonder how many lives would have been saved around the world if more leaders had had that balance of confidence in and what things to abraham lincoln rethink will lincoln. Is i think an incredibly fascinating case. Because when he came into the white house he was convinced that if he tried to abolish slavery that it would end the union that it wouldn't tear the country apart. And how lucky are we that he was willing to rethink that now. Let's be clear celeste. He didn't change his values. His principles were consistent. He wanted freedom and opportunity for everyone regardless of the color of your skin but he was flexible on his beliefs about the best way to advance those values. I think that's something. We can all probably take from. Lincoln is to say let's the inconsistent in our principles but flexible in our policies and practices. Okay next question for you any advice forgetting your boss to rethink their opinions asking for a friend wealth friends. I think one of the most underutilized strategies for having upward influence is to asking price. So i might go to your boss and say hey. I realize this decisions been made. I wanted to explore the possibility of rethinking. It and i wonder if you could give me some guidance about the best way to pursue that conversation. 'cause i know you're great at getting change to happen around here and i know a lot of people look up. A few things tend to happen when you seek advice. The first one is flattery. We all admire the wisdom of people who come to us for advice. Let's face it. You have great taste near to come to me. And then the second thing that happens is perspective. Taking in order to give advice. People have to walk in your shoes and between the flattery and the perspective taking people even if they were your adversary going into conversation. They're more likely than to step up. And become your advocate and say well you know. I'd love to help support this or at least are some recommendations or here. Are some people to talk to the cabbie off from the research on this is that advice seeking does not work. If it's not genuine so you can't go to your boss. And say hey. Can you give me some advice about how to get rethink this stupid decision. You made what you have to do. Is your go in interested in learning from the person's advice and then it of course comes across as authentic but the other person is much more likely to engage in it no way that ultimately is helpful to both of you. I love that so much and one of the great things about that advice. That you've just given is because of the research that we have on how it changes somebody's mindset when you remind them to think about their own values right that guidance you've just given is literally prompting someone to think about their better selves which is fantastic. Okay next question with kobe. Were having less interaction with people outside of our immediate communities. So how do we make sure. Our beliefs are factually. Based i think this is hard. I don't have a silver bullet for this one. I think celestial point about painting like journalist is it just could not be more timely. There's research showing for example that if people just pause on social media and before they share something or re tweet something just ask. Is this true. It makes them less likely to spread fake news. And that's exactly. I think what you would do journalists. I think one of the things that i think we all have control over as individuals is who we listened to and who we follow and what we like and what things. I noticed while i was writing. Think again is i was mostly following people whose conclusions i agreed with and i realized that i wasn't getting enough information to challenge my thought process so when made a list of people who don't always arrive at the same answers that i do but i respect the intellectual integrity that they bring to their questions and i said i wanna learn from people who really forced me to evolve my beliefs point of learning. Isn't it to involve your beliefs not to affirm what you already think is true and i think if more of us did that we could probably get to a point where we're all open to learning with so much misinformation out there today. How can you change. Someone's mind when they're armed with facts. That don't seem real. Well yeah right. I think it the place i would start on that one knowing that it's an uphill battle is to recognize that you can't force someone to change their minds. The best thing you can do is help them find their own reasons to change their minds. There's a chapter on this. In chapter. Seven where i learned from a vaccine. Whisper a superior attrition who specializes in the application of what's called motivational interviewing to open the minds of aaron sue. Maybe believing in vaccine myths conspiracies the basic idea behind motivational interviewing. Is you start with an attitude of humility and jerry and you say hey here to try to better understand your goals and could you tell me a little bit about what you're hoping to accomplish and then when you hear the goals your job is not to try to change their goals but to help them better advanced those goals right so they might say. Hey i really wanna keep my kids safe. And then if i were a motivational interviewer i was a you. Know what so do i. Of course and i believe that it's your responsibility to figure out how to do that. And i trust that you have your kids best interests at heart and then would do is i would say how are you balancing the risks of vaccinating against the risk of not vaccinating. And what are circumstances under which you would be opposed to vaccinating versus. You might be open to considering it. And what i'm trying to help you do is recognized that there are nuances in your own Right when considering a change most people are ambivalent. That's the way the data tend to show and if you can hold up a mirror and help people see that they might have reasons for change as well as reasons to stay consistent then they might actually take ownership over their own reasons for change. But i don't think it works if you're trying to manipulate them right you have to be actually there to guide them and try to understand their motivations. Okay we have a few minutes left here. What about challenging someone's belief about race gender or social justice issue because conversations can get heated very quickly were full of uc questions today. We don't play the irony of asking away man. This question is not lost on me at all me. Try to tackle this from two perspectives. The first is what actually opened my mind. Some of these issues and then the second is where we've had some luck in our data. So i'm not proud of this but for the first couple of years of my career. I did not talk about gender or race in the classroom. I felt like as a white man. It was not my place. And i'm really embarrassed to say that it took me a long time to realize that sexism is not just a women's issue that racism is not just an issue for black people or anyone of color. These are issues of human rights and dignity and opportunity and that we all have a responsibility to speak about them. And i think one of the things that really opened. My mind's was i read some research showing that white. Men advocate for diversity. They don't get punished for it. They actually sometimes get rewarded for. What a good guy he cares about people who don't look like him and sadly the same day that this is david hackman and stephanie johnson and their colleagues the same data showed that when women and minorities advocated for diversity they tended to face a penalty for it as if they were being self serving or nepotistic to advance their own greek and when i learned that i said you know what not only is it. My place it's actually easier for me than it is for a woman or a person of color to advocate for diversity and inclusion and then i made another mistake that i'm not proud of which is i took that evidence at face value and i said we'll john that's the way the world is so i need to speak out a lot and to advocate for change. What i should have done was say. It is unacceptable that the world works this way when you see a woman or a person of color advocate for diversity. She is not trying to advantage her own group. She's putting her career and her livelihood on the line to advance justice. And i think that desperately needs to change. What do you think of that. I'm a black so you're speaking my language here. I mean it is absolutely the case. It's interesting because the book. I just finished writing is about how to talk about race regardless of your color. How did i not know this. I don't know you keep him stickers from me. I guess i am i guess the answer. Here's the but. I just turned it in eight days early but one of the things i found interesting i spoke with a number of people in every single by pop. Person said listen. This is wipe people's work. This is their work to do. And if you want to be educated on issues of race you have to ask i in this kind of hearkens back to what you were talking about before this idea of getting permission and making sure getting consent in a way to say. Hey i don't understand this particular issue. Can you tell me about it. And if they say no you have to be okay with it and walk away without making it about your hurt feelings. If anyone's doing the homework and being thoughtful about it it's probably your none remains to be seen. I will say just the question that prompted this discussion have hard conversations with people about race one of the things that i keep noticing how often these conversations are framed in terms of equality. The defensiveness often comes from people who aren't interested in equality of outcome. They want a quality of opportunity and they believe that the world is america crecy and so why do we need to have this conversation. And the first one i had on that is from some of the research on moral foundations that maybe we would make more progress just not using the language of equality and saying instead. We are trying to give everyone opportunity for everyone freedom. Do you think it's viable reframing and is there other rhetoric that you would recommend here climbing i think absolutely and the research now shows that instead of looking for quality we need to be talking about equity and i think that people can understand that if you have an entire workforce of people over six feet that equality not is not going to help so i mean. I think you're absolutely on the right track and obviously talking about any places. America cosc- right now is probably medic. But also i think this is a good example for people of a healthy conversation race. I think and we house over me. I appreciate that For me to and settling we have to end here. Because we're out of time but i wanna thank you so much for always your honesty and your candor and talking about all of these issues well as a feminist and an aspiring hand cy racists. It's an honor to have a chance to speak with this incredible audience of women and also just such a treat to have a chance to learn from you. I will never forget when you introduce me to the idea of conversational narcissism and. It's something i've been paranoid about. Ever since i did something that we probably need. Some of the men of the world's would be more aware of well. I'm here to help when it's always a pleasure to talk to. You and i really enjoyed the book. Thank you to all the audience members who sent in their questions in advance. Be sure to pick up. Adam grants new book. It's called pink again and of this in the conference bookstore with free shipping. Take care of your buddy. We hope you enjoyed today's conversation with best selling author and organisational psychologists adam grant his most recent book think again is available for purchase at the women amplified online bookstore with free shipping. By the way if you enjoy this podcast please share it with others. We could all benefit from inspiration and advice and guidance. The conferences for women is the largest network of women's conferences. In the nation. They draw more than fifty five thousand women and men to annual events in boston philadelphia austin and california registration for our virtual fall. Events is now open so visit conferences for women dot org to learn more. I'm celeste headley. And this is women amplified from the conferences for women. Thank you so much for listening behind and be well.

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Anthony Alabi Talks Fatherhood, Family Reunion, Acting & More

The Art of Fatherhood Podcast

44:15 min | 2 months ago

Anthony Alabi Talks Fatherhood, Family Reunion, Acting & More

"So i always said i former matter what become a doctor. Become a shoeshiner. I don't care be funny because that way at the very least i know you get it. I know you get life. You kinda see things. You're grounded you kinda. Get welcome to the art of fatherhood podcast. That takes you on the journey of fatherhood. Now here's your host art any. This week's the father had podcast is being brought to you by hbo. Max one of my favorite series growing up as a kid was batman the animated series. Now thanks to hbo. Max i get to watch this with kids and show them shows that. I used to watch when i was their age for family movie night. You know. we're always watching. Suzanne and the lego batman movie. You can discover new movies. Beloved series and epoch originals. At your whole family will love was content streaming only. Hbo max like the new hit movie. The suicide squad by james gunn that was released earlier this month. Hbo max is where hbo's fearless groundbreaking programming meets iconic collection of beloved entertainment including warner brothers larger than life. Storytelling not only can you stream movies from your favorite devices but you can download them and take them on the go. Some of my favorite movies. I like to download and take with me is steel. Zack snyder's the justice league doom patrol and one of my all time favorites the dark knight sign up for. Hbo max now start streaming today using the link. Hbo m dot a. x. Slash fatherhood go now and sign up for. Hbo max star street every title. I mentioned in so much more What's going on. Everybody be here for another artist. Father podcast so happy to have anthony. Thanks for taking time to chat with me sir. How you doing. I'm doing great man. Thanks for having me on. I appreciate yeah big fan of your work. My family and i love your show on netflix. Family reunion it's bag. It's coming up with some more episodes. One of the things i think people love about shows. How if they can believe that. That's a family right. And you guys bond. And i love watching view talked with some of your co stars. Ut and loretta. We're just seeing like the you know the people on the show like the crew all right. Great i'm glad you guys were talking but we need to film right frames almost like you said it was like the first day of school back again. We just go out. How's summer and that show is in the series man so talk a little about building that chemistry. I know it's for a few season talking about bill net. Chemistry every season is crazy. Because it just carries over you know typically you think like the first season. Everybody's excited new series. We all have jobs. So we're we're pumped out. But i think season to the pandemic and everything that happen it was like coming back together. Before we filmed what four episodes it was like four weeks and then the pandemic hit and we went to quarantine and everything but those first four weeks we were just. We couldn't fill like we were the biggest target really kindergarten. Kids like we're just laughing between takes literally to the point. Meg had to come over and go guys. I know i get it. There's a lot of fun we gotta get to work so you know i think what it is. Is we all know where we are. We all kind of understand what the show is. And i think we enjoy genuinely each other's company and that's rare it is. It's very rare. There's a lot of times that you work with people where it's not necessarily a bad thing where you're not into the other person but you know like they bear into rock and roll in heavy metal and you're like into like solar hip hop. It's just like different tastes right for some reason. We all came on the show and just from the beginning. Everybody just was really on the same page. Not that we agree on everything. Loretta definitely disagrees with my style. Halftime called him skirt. I'm like it's a fashion statement. She gets scary on my ireland. Whatever but i think. I think at the end of the day we all appreciate what each person brings the table and i think with that comes kind of that respect for each other and the and just the fun in the end the be able the the knowing where the cages and being able to play within. That you know yeah. That's the biggest part of it for us that we we go to work every day. Ready to play and it goes off that because again like you can spot the authenticity it. Just it just comes natural guys portraying. The guys are family heckman. You guys talked about so many great things some fun things some serious things. I love the fact that they're like joking about one of her friends saying like. Oh you're on. My wife was calling me sobbing. Karen right and like you have those moments where you're like. Yeah like in you guys present topics whether they're serious fun family caring or just serious topics integrate way. And you guys act like normal parents would act right. So i'm wondering like how much pride you and your colleagues have for especially like right now representation and all that stuff so people be like man. That's just like looks like my family right. I i mean. I'm a white do saying this for years. I've seen the heroes Right that must mean something for you. Guys have a great show all like all dynamics wherever you walks of life are tuned into this show right little bit like how much pry you guys must have for the show man will yet. I mean just just kind of piggy backing of what you just said. One i think meg in the writer's room they have a real ear to the ground. And i think they have no ego when it comes to figuring out what is current what we need to be talking about. What are terms in like the kind of modern day vernacular that we need to use. Like what words. Our kids using now. What words are parents using like. What philosophies in parenting are kind of coming through. All of that jumbled together helps to create this dialogue in this world in the things that that work so two things one. I think the best writers especially for this genre family know how to write jokes or topics or plotlines bat are the ones that are meant for the meant that the kids right. The ones that are meant for the parents into make the parents laugh. It's a small window that flies just above his head but his apparent right in the face. You know what i mean. So a kid's laughing and they don't know what they're laughing about with the parents like that's funny like a pop culture efforts from their childhood or something they'd been through which i know you wanted waffles and he threw himself on the floor. This morning again. so it's it's very much like that and then in in relating in relation to what you said as far as like being a white guy in still being able to relate to the show I'm a big wilson fan. So i i you know i i. It's clear model myself after a lot of his comedy. Just because i love the genius in his work in the things that he's able to do and one of the things he said. That always stuck with me. Was that when you can tell. A joke and black people are laughing and white people laughing but for two completely different reasons. Then you've got something special. And i think that's the thing. Is that black people. Watch this show and they're just like. Oh yeah i gotta daniel daniel. My family are like oh yeah. My grandmother was just like that and white people can laugh. And oh my god that's hilarious. We had some. That happened like that with two. You're bringing people together because all of a sudden you're not noticing oh we're different cultures are different so we don't really in iraq you start to appreciate the fact of black white green purple parents our parents and we all go through these things. Where whether it's our daughter went wanting to wear too much makeup or not acknowledging like a death in our our son you know getting picked on at school and not really being able to stick up for himself or you know all of those things relationship issues all of it. It's all relatable bet. We as human beings. Just go through. And i think that's the thing that we tapped into which is something that they did in the nineties. Like those those those sitcoms tapped into where everybody might life you know what. I mean for instance. She remembers that she's white. She remembers all that stuff where she's just like. Oh yeah i prince of bel air family matters is my favorite shows. Unlike are really and she was like yeah. That's that's what we watch and that's the magic of it. So i think that's what this show done is it's kind of captured that idea of being able to make two or several different groups of people laugh for many reasons not i mean. Tgi just talking. About like family matters. Tgif ryan abc had like maybe full house in Family matters all those shows right in your i. I had a chance. Chat with julia. White like the importance of that show right and just in again more at especially at that time. So everybody can relate to it in the first prince of bel-air man. I'm a big sneaker. Hadn't when he was rocking the grape five. I was like dude that that's amazing right like even. They came out with a color way that i couldn't get on the sneaker app because it went really quickly. But like as i digress but no your show is just is really cool and certain things that you've talked about whether you're getting pulled over or just for no reason right in like you guys you guys talk about it in a way that like maybe opens up doors or ears or just minds like oh yeah you did nothing wrong right and all of these things and you said comes with the writers room that all that but you got not only do. The writers have their ears to the ground you guys. Do you guys have families. You guys have friends. You guys see what's going on in these past few years right you guys at this point because of the chemistry because of how you guys work together do you guys kind of talk even like the kid actors like you guys talk about. Hey maybe my character should do this. What is that room like that. You know just like you guys. Give your ideas me like. Hey maybe she kinda have ever show that depicts. This talks about this topic. It happens off. I remember the first season you know. This is my first series right. So i naturally came in two ways to approach could have approached it in coming in. I'm just going to write what they say. And kind of go at that not really disrupt anything but the philosophy that i took was i'm here and i want to try make authentic to me as possible and the reason why that's important needs to be authentic because on the one performing so of i don't believe it and i can't imagine it or might might be s meter. Goes off where it's like. This isn't real this doesn't go. That's a real thing. It's like a real term that we use they were. I don't really. That doesn't imply than than i can't really honestly portray it and i think the reason why people look at us and they say why they really are like that of the really because the things that we put in the show the writers from that they put in the show and the things that we contribute are real and we believe what we're saying and we understand what we're saying is very leased if our carry it. My character. francis of mos- has a philosophy I don't agree with it. Doesn't necessarily mean like i'm not gonna be able to portray that it just means that now they've done it in such a way that i understand anthony understand what most needs so now i can portray that because i understand his point of view. That's the difference. You know what i mean so we are often they they look to us and go do has founding. Does that feel real view. Is that an or will come to them and be like cobra. Moses wouldn't i wouldn't talk to cocoa like that just because we have this this relationship like this or like that in another time complement. Say you know. I never really thought of it that way. That's that's awesome. And they listened to us for the most part. You know and i think that that kind of collaboration Just can do nothing but help uplift the entire production yet. A hundred percent agree because again. We're big fans of the show in what you said though to about like how awesome if everyone especially in real life had that mentality like you said for your tax. I wouldn't agree with what he's doing with mas doing but you know what let me learn. Why he's doing this right. Learned the why before i react. And then we'll see what's go- i played. This anthony hill was the head writer for season. One any wrote a lot of season two. He's an amazing writer. I love his perspective on things right. So he's the ep on on our show too but he told me he goes. You know it's funny. Because people want to judge immediately they wanna make it a thing where it's just like there's no room for bray is just black and white Not raise the metaphorically. And he's like he's like it's just that's the way it is and he goes for instance. Take lex luther wright. And i'm all superman i'm like yes mints good and there's bad he goes izzy or is lex luther looking at superman going. I appreciate all the good stuff he's able to do. And i appreciate all the stuff he's able to do but what happens when this guy wakes up in a bad mood one day and we're all done. I just think we should be able to protect ourselves from that. And i just think that i need to be able to protect manny. Someone use my money my resources to protect humanity when you look at it from that perspective lex luther even still like bed. Dykes amazing you can still appreciate. Why he's doing it. And that too for the layman. That is the kind of key or the little gateway where the actor kind of slips in and like. I can take this character enough because i understand his point of view and i can defend. That's something that you can defend. I'm not necessarily against superman. i'm protecting humanity. You know and i think like that thing of coming at everything from perspective of love instead of hate. I don't hate superman. i love humanity. You know what i mean and trying to figure it out in that way so love that analogy love that story and especially to like with the different dc characters in different like the. What if stories like what happens. If superman landed in russia during the they had those things and it's like all right we gotta protect ourselves. So yeah okay you know what i mean like. Whose side is he on. It's like humanity side or like a country. Yeah so we'll more quest for gonna fatherhood. I know you were talking. We were talking earlier about like all right. Let's settle down. We have to act on on stuff but like there's certain times where you guys almost trying break someone else because again. I know you guys doing their job. But like there's certain times today we're gonna get hurt. We're going to get something along those lines there times that i go into a scene where i'm like. This is a loss for me. If i don't make you laugh or don't make like break. I try to do like the most kind of random thing that she wasn't expecting. It's it always. It's always hilarious. Because you'll see her and she'll react to this. Be like your free got eventually. She'll break or something like that but we always do. We always turned kind of one of each other or or can had fun with each other. Because when you do that the only people that win you guys like you win. Get to see all so yet we prank each other all the time I'm kind of a big culver to that. I just like to. It's like leftover from football. Like i constantly wanted just like mess with people. It's it's just like it's a thing that i enjoy to do. I enjoy doing and and they do it to me to one more thing to because our family loves to read our family loves history and all that in again learning more about other people's history and other sides of history and hopefully things are more coming out in a way that like everyone should learn about everybody sensory right when you guys go into deers history and just things that she experienced past year robbo to that because that brings in a way where it comes it. It doesn't feel like it's being forced fed. It's beautiful store. It's beautiful history. That character where she's going so again might be a small detail but our family wheat like we because it's netflix sneaking kind of been shows. Whatever but they'll watch over again we'll sit down and watch it with with them over and over again but like that history aspect is fantastic. Man i think you know the grass thais right tyson but when he talks about signs emmy talks about things that are supposedly above people's heads. Like these complicated you know physics and astronomy and all these other things. He goes the easiest way to teach. Someone is to tell them a story. You're not going to remember that the sun is this. Many degrees hot netted can burn this next. But you will remember that if you put a raw high on a windowsill. If you were this close to the cook and five seconds people remember that and then with that bill associated the number being like a son. Is this in this hot. That's how you tell stories. So i think may does perfect job of that and she loves telling the historical kind of stories you can tell from season one. In a couple of certain season two she really likes to kind of portray our history. That way and i think that's her way of contributing to this movement of being like this is what it is. This is the story of who we are. We're not sitting here trying to force it down your throat or advocate or do any of this. It's more just like this story is painting isn't it and you learn something at the same time so i think that's the most important thing to learn something in all of a sudden become more sympathetic empathetic. And you're like hey everyone's exploring right. So limit on specially. What the reason why. I want to bring on here series that sock about your great series but also father how people follow you on social media. They know that you know your family man. You love living at fatherhood lifestyle so take me back when you found out you were going to be a dad. What was your mind god. That was crazy. Yeah my daughter when when we found out we it already planned our honeymoon and so we were like okay. We wanna continue ago and so yeah we. We eventually went. Might my wife for that. Reason will never wanna go back to italy again. She had more croissants and delano. And that's all she could ever deal with. But in any case finding that i it was. It was a big thing for me. Because i don't know why i was one of those weird kids who since i was young i always wanted to be a dad and i always wanted to feel that kind of it was more of just wanting to feel that kind of unconditional love and be like others. I made this person. And i just wanna to like seat so for me. It was such an exhilarating in like just an exciting. And i just started to think of all the possibilities. I started to kind of like go down my rabbit hole. And i'm i'm a very tie bay kind of like you know i. Everything is in its place organized and like having the so literally the next day. I was already started with my wife. Okay strollers down to five these top five. Now if you're looking for speed and you're looking for comfort is two different things you're going to have the bumpy or you can go back. It's one of the started going to make sure chris so i just got into it. You know what. I mean and immediately bought the pain started the nursery. I like immediately got rid of my office. Which is a whole. 'nother thing. I gotta do like why it was so it's just that was it for me. I was ready and willing to kind of accept this mantle of being a father. I knew i didn't want to be a father. Like twelve kids. I never really wanted to be a dad and your own football team. Your offensive side. You do that out. Six men texas football. But that's that's close. But yeah you know i want and i wanted a girl i did and my mom died when i was twenty and i and i remember thinking to myself like she's gonna come back so like it's definitely going to be a girl like my first kid is going to be a girl no doubt and it was and it worked out but and so i wanted a girl and i wanted a boy and it just wanted to play with them and an have these life experiences with kind of explorer life at that level like go down to their level and go above. What is this you don't get in there and had that kind of wonder that you lose an adult. I told my wife is all the time. And it's it's kinda the statement that keeps me centered in. It's a weird statement. But it's like kanye west which i hate quoting on your right now but it this idea. Never lose your dinosaur right little kids when you ask them what they wanna be akito spew off and they're going to be a dinosaur because he has no idea limits is no idea that that's a weird thing that's not possible you know. It's the same thing that paper clip tested. They gave the kids where they like. Here's a paper but do something with it and they just start spewing up forty or fifty questions where they can. The paper clip fly can be thicker could be thinner. Can i straighten it out. Can i do this do that. Can i break it into pieces. Like it's things that adults who think of because we immediately have compartmentalizing put like these borders around ourselves. And i think it's a very determined horn. It's a very wise thing to be around. Little kids like that and see their perspective. Because all i can do is just make me a better actor to where now i look at something and it. Just start asking these random questions without boundaries or borders and the care to this or what have you did that and what happens here and ninety percent of them gets shot down like anthony setup like no. We're not the ones the ten percent it does get through goal and that people remember that are quoted back to me when like walking and going to get aids billions or something. You know what i mean. So it's it's the fun thing about being a dad is just opens you up so much to so much more That doesn't have to be this thing where it's like. I'm reluctant dead and the baby's been the goods today. It's like mel. Matt never with against today. You know what. I mean enjoyed it. Look forward to it. It's like. I hate that will babysitting duty and i'm like i don't who's who who's getting paid to be a babysitter like this is my kids. You know what. I mean so it anthony this group being this parenthood Circle and all this other stuff. I you know i i have a bunch of great dad groups and one of them is the at home dad network and they have a t. Shirt says dads aren't babysitters right. So what you said right. There is fantastic. They love to hear that. So let me give man nails painted and laying on the hot on the hot turf in the muddy belly to look at a lizard view. Mitch like the bugs and stuff like when my youngest. Sorry my oldest. When she was real young she had a fascination for butterflies. We still do like two days ago or like on the weekend will see a tiger swallowtail swallow chair hummingbird tip right now because my wife could speedy. So it's like hummingbirds janet yelling at my bigger. And it's just like a hummingbird so you actually answered my questions. That i had just about like what is something that your kids have taught you. And it's like don't lose the dinosaur right. Don't lose that in like don't lose that innocence from their perspectives. I got two more questions before the father. Quick five now. You got the nfl man especially get into where you at an acting. That's like to me. It's almost like the bo jackson of like emmy yet. He played baseball and football. But like you got into the nfl and now you're here on on netflix. Have an awesome series. That's legit hard work dedication. Obviously those are values that you and your wife we're going to instill into your kids talk about an increase in just like you said creativity in learning more about things. Questioning things is perfect. Besides that talk about some of the other values. You're looking to then. I always said this. This is before i had kids in in. Its previous same now with kids as i always said. I think i won't be funny. And i said that. Not because i'm like own butane a bit. Because i want for me when you can do comedy. It shows sign of intelligence right. It's the ability to kind of see the world as it is and then take a step back and flip it upside down representatives. Everybody to where they're like. I recognize that. And it's really quirky that you did it in that way. You know what i'm saying now for me. That's what it is. And and that. So i always said first and foremost matter what become a doctor becomes shoeshiner. I don't care be funny because that way at the very least you get it and i know you get life you kinda see things. You're grounded you kind of get it so for me. That was the first the first thing the other thing that i learned in early age. I would say this came from both. My parents were probably more so from my father considering that he's an immigrant first generation kid and he gave from nigeria. And that's the concept of deferred gratification. i think in this society we. We're all obsessed with this. I want right now. I want it now. I want the success. Now want everything now. Even though it hasn't been earned and this idea that everybody kind of feels like they are a celebrity right. And it's like. I don't consider myself anything and i'm on tv. You know what i mean. I don't consider that to be celebrity. that something that is abstract. That doesn't even really matter. But like you have to work to kinda get up to those levels the deferred gratification ideas putting in the work. Now to get the spoils later and it's not an and it focuses more on the process on the journey on the outcome. And i think if you wanna talk about. Nfl enacting. that's what that was. And i tell people all the time. I wasn't in love with football. I love football. And i was into it because i was competitive in. I was talented in. I was given some god given abilities that you can't teach height strength long arms. You know big ears listen But like all of those things came together and allowed me to do it. But it wasn't something that that i was like absolutely in love with. I remember i was in the room once a guy was like. Can you believe that we get paid to do this. And i was like. Yeah yeah we should get paid to this. This is hard like this is not easy to do But then. When i became an actor and i finally got to do what i wanted to do and which was acting. I realized that's what he meant. You know what i mean. That's what it was and so that kind of that kind of deferred casing idea of being able to. Yeah i'm going to go through some stuff. I'm gonna suffer for a bit to get to that point where i want mom at least two right where he was like. You know you suffer now and can be a champion for the rest of your life. He aid worker. I hate working out. I can't believe she's a politest instructor. She can't believe she. Trains me at four thirty in the morning every morning i i do believe he's iran everything morning and she's just like you gotta four thirty in the morning to go work out and to do all these things and you hate it. I was like. I absolutely hated us. Well then why did he do it. And i said because i love acting put it comes to you know so. That's the kind of stuff that you want to instill in your kids want put in is that it's not all rainbows lollipops it's hard and it hurts and it's pain and its rejection and its failure it's failure and its failure failure until the one time where it all comes together it clicks in. It's like oh wait. That's what it is and then you win and then when you win you just keep winning because we built this base for yourself raw that suffering of understanding knowing how to like move like water had kind of adapt in understanding into grow and change. And then you have everlasting success as opposed to this flash in the pan thing you know what i mean like bruce lee. Move like water right. I just read his book that his daughter wrote. And i just listened this morning to the the youtube talking about that. You know what. I mean where it's like you got to move. You can't sit there and be rigid now. Water its intention is rigid. Where i wanna go i want an emmy. That's what that is. I want to do that. That's never gonna change but the method to get there. You have to be adaptable. It has to be able to say like okay. This isn't the way. But maybe this way maybe this is the way you know what i mean figured out and saying i can't it's like what can i do to change that. What can i do to fix. Okay i can't get the agent but i want. I can't get the movie that i want. But what can i do. I can make a short and then the shortage picked up and somebody likes it and then they offered me something and then that allows me to create my own thing later may take longer. But you're getting what you want and it's gonna last you know in you appreciate it more because you work hard for right and as we said in something you said about. They're just with your dad being immigrant listening to. I'm blanking on her name right now. But she did a She did a story on john and the books come out like this month and we were just talking about like how their family. Who's gonna eat like what's going to happen. The mom like they would not like the parents go days without eating right and now when john came over here he bought a playstation for like a week. He was beating himself up. Like why did i buy this. I always wanted to games. When i was a kid and all other stoppings like why did i do this and to see him just because everyone's like he didn't go on a super team and he can't shoot three. You know three pointers that well and free throws whatever but he had his way and this kind of like he got right so i just i love hearing those stories and pass it onto your kids like work hard fourteen. You'll appreciate it better because if you get something like that was it matter. Right was a kid who's you know. Turns fifteen and gets his permit and gets a box mercedes gonna do you get into an accident expect something else hundred percent or kill someone else so my thing is like what what are you working for. Then like when you're at the box related what are you. What are you the motivation that granted money and everything else is always have the motivation. But like you already have the lifestyle you got the desert without eating dinner so now now what you so that. That's that's why that kind of thing i remember. My wife said this to me to like a couple years. We were married she goes. The kids aren't getting a new car on their sixteen. How much yet. she's like. It's not gonna happen. She's like they're getting a used. Beat up car. If i can find a buick. Roadmaster with wood paneling on the side. That's what i would give them when they turn sixteen and i love report. Is that bedstead sir. Swag and she's like. That's what i'm gonna do and i was like i'm with you. Whatever you decide cool. But i don't wanna talk about you nice One more question before we get again. You things you're saying could be great piece of advice for new dads but if you have one big piece of advice for new dads what would it be who i'm fighting between patients and listen Do both you can do both man at work patients in listening at this morning care night my wife caroline care and i were talking and she was like. I can't get frustrated that the preschool is sending us. These family projects that we have to do in. I was like yeah. We can't get frustrated that we have to lunch every day now because before they were going to school. Today's week to week now. They go four days a week and isn't he can't get frustrated with that because that's your life now until the next eighteen years like we're gonna be they're gonna have school projects we're gonna do do it. Just gets more and more and more until they finally gone higher and anyway but young. But that's the thing is is patients has to be there and you have to be able to be like all right what happened. Who hit who i in. What's going on as opposed to just kind of coming in like a typical dej barking at everything and like everybody quiet and sit down and watch muira the greatest detective. You're okay guys so that kind of patients works at. You know when when you're wanting to be frustrated my is like take a deep breath and then just ask what happened. The second thing listening part is huge. Because kids will tell you what's wrong and may not be with words but they'll always let you know when there's a problem in their behavior. Would they do the way. Play what they draw. You know how they perspective on things because their brand new their blank slate. So they're gonna blank canvas if someone throws a colored green on there. It's obvious like you can see it. You what i mean. Same thing with kid. They're blank slate so wrong. It's obvious but you need to be willing to listen to that. And if you're willing to listen to that it makes you a better parent enlisting with all your senses like you know the. I don't wanna go slow my stomach cards. There's some really hurt if somebody bullying at school or some happening at school or why. Don't you know what i mean. And that's that's kind of a thing that saved him with kid who's like. I just want to be home the time. Why do you want to be home all the time when it's nice. But what are we spoiling you too much or this too nice and you don't want to experience new things that's a problem too. You know so. I set patients in listening. Great great is right. There in listening in sodas patients but listening also to when they get older in like for my thirteen year old or eleven year old or they like owns kind of means to me and i. If they're really good friend you'll get over it and if they weren't your friend to begin with and don't worry about it. You can't say that because you're not understanding where they're at in my wife. And i was like all right. Why are you feeling sway. What's going on. did you do anything. What would you know so having those instead of the yes. No questions like you said listening is going to be key no matter what as they are so i really appreciate that our vicki for that because i will put that in the bank when my concern thirteen and i appreciate the biggest thing that you see that means all my kids talking about this youtube channel again. This kids talking about like this video game. Yeah you show that you care about that like especially in pandemic we've been like the four of us has been doing a lot more stuff together and even before that we were carrying. But it's just like we're learning more about each other. They're learning more about me and my wife in learning more about them. Which is great but i think it goes hidden an because you have those kids where it's like they're sixteen and they do something stupid like they're doing this. You talk to me about it and say because you're not interested in their life anyway. You don't like on monday and tuesday you don't you don't care like what they're watching what they're doing. Because you're like upgrade free. Now they're teenagers and let them do their thing and then on saturday you expect them to tell you what they did at this party or why they got like you know drunk or underage whatever that it has to be one hundred percent you gotta listen to them all the time. They're into a showed like cool. Why are you into this show about you. Learn their personalities you learn who they are and i think this philosophical. I have no teenagers. So i could be completely wrong but i just think that's the logical step that i would take in that in that sense. You know it's easier said than done. Because like i have a teenager in one's gonna be another teenager but like you you you i think. Have the right message oga. Not the everyone's gonna not that it's always gonna work under percent right via the idea of just being like. Hey so why. Do you like the he wants to show together. We'll make up fan fiction together. We'll do dungeons and dragons right. And i'll tell them things about things i'm experiencing in their decide okay. Cool so you're you're you're you have the right methods. Insure you know each other right family family. We can't just be like. Yeah something i don't know what he doesn't there. It's like you should know that. So yeah i love it here. We go the fatherhood. Quick five favorite family move. I know they're kinda young but like in. Maybe they'll sit through a whole movie so it'd be a tv show. What is it right now. Repealing movie i would say between monsters inc and yet finding email is their school stuff. They dislike with their so young. Like there's so much stuff it's regulated that we can't like show them because he gets scared of anything gets dark. Okay so you gotta like peas. But yeah i'd say big hero. Six came we went to the theater. And maybe it wasn't the best time for my youngest. She was freaking out. So you love big hero six. 'cause i accidentally put an accident i put it on and then i was like Yeah wants us and they loved it and then it got dark or got down real quick so my some like daddy. This is wrong and now they asked for it. My wife was looks like this. Every time fail of my favorite family song or is there a band. You can't wait to introduce them to. I mentioned earlier but it was. Oh my weight too. So this a song for this mira. The world's greatest detective on disney or something It's a great it's like let's hear it for me. Were royal detective so we all sing that throughout the day. Everybody's humming it or stan. Some point and then my wife introduced cloudy day by tones. And i and my daughter can't get enough of it. She just she's like she's like elax. Side not hewlett. Since out so that song she loves it so she listened to it and before that it was like whitney houston's higher love like she'll just it'll come on and she got into this thing and so beds yet the family song we put it on washing dishes in the kids are doing puzzles doing whatever we're all dancing and playing is always have music in house a hundred percent especially when even when they're young to whenever type of music latte whatever the case may be i think music is key. Love it laying off no the pandemic and all that stuff. People aren't really traveling but describe describe the perfect family vacation where to be for you guys honestly. We got in just in time. We got this little window It was june. Mid june. To june june sixteenth to june thirtieth this past june we were able to fly out. I first trip for my kids. I mean andy form of where she was younger. She was a baby baby But accident his first flight and so we took him on a plane and we went to to boston. Martha's vineyard and my brother-in-law has there the best vacation ever. I mean they. They were on the beach. They went to the zoo. They got to like play around and they. I think they had ice cream. Every single days of it was hard when these little addicts came back. And you're like vice. You like no. They're like why we have ice cream all zones like no and they finally get like the difference between vacation and like at home. We want ipads in the car on vacation. Yup school but i think that was. That's pretty close. I'm excited for disney. But i'm gonna try and do the smart way not do disney until they can actually remember it when they're like. Yeah like in seventh grade. I feel like it's a waste now at foreign three. It just feels like they'll be like oh that's great and google coming legal freak out Trying to have it. So i'm to like eight eight or nine in that in that area where they actually can remember. It took him like when they were seventy five. My youngest remember then like two years or three years ago. He went to Universal because it were all into harry potter and they just loved it. So you're smart. You put that money into it. Just wait and they'll appreciate it later. Good point Like i mentioned earlier. You know we're talking about the first big sneaker head and i gotta say you in the cast on family reunion might have such a great sneaker collection. You're wearing some awesome cakes. Are you snigger head. So i just have to ask are you. Snigger item. so especially playing football. Maybe at your time. They didn't have the jordan cleats. And all that other stuff but for you for you like did you. Do you have a favorite sneaker. Yeah so i I became more sneaker. When i got a job When i moved to california the culture really got i at first i was always into it. But you gotta understand. I sixteen shoe now right. I wore like size eleven in like fourth or fifth grade. You know what i mean so like i had a big foot my whole life and i you know i'm an older guy so i didn't have the internet growing up as a kid so getting shoes was not a fun experience for me. It was like the david robinson. Angry or like the patrick. Ewing's that are like super black. And just look like bricks on your feet. You know what i mean. And so there was no sil- web zoro's is like but don't make it and so once. The internet came along and then Prehistoric internet the internet came along and it was able to apps and everything else nike kind of finally caught up and realize like there's people walking around the earth that have big feet to It was great. And so i started when i was in the nfl. I was on air force. One tip and i had like thirty pairs of air force. Ones like straight up was like every color every combo and then i was in the s. dot cars for a minute you know the reebok lawns. Yeah yeah. I like the baby blue with the with the gun bottom and i was a blue kick i love. I literally bought three pairs and only wore one of the pairs east. I love these muslim. Combine them at every day. I come in big urine so that that's just me thank you. It's not just me good. That's that's a. That's a new shoe smell. So that was. That was it. When i when i started acting in a came over here move i got rid of all my air force ones in my soul to some lucky person in nebraska with big feet. But like here it was like you know i had. The jordan started to come comeback. When jordan started like pop author like remakes in color ways. And all that. So i got into that and and for me. My number one more than anything is the number one jordan ones. You can't big. I'm sorry you can't make better sneaker more evolved all around. I can wear this with anything sneaker And so whenever i find jordan one one this is white on white pure white. I have to get it because it's never around you like. I just loved the silhouette. I think it's fantastic. After that i would say my next favorite. I mean of course namedrop room be like. Oh the concorde eleven art But but it's like. I think the jordan one is is is big for me and the threes. I love the threes. And just i just got the three denims been out for a minute. But it's nice. I go in my size and was like hard. And i finally got him but yeah i have. I think my wife candidate. Thirty two pairs of jordan's like all around on the worst. I know on the worst person. And i'm going to get roasted for this. People are starving. I understand out. Anthony got way more. I got you. Yeah he's a bad person. You can blame me. i'll take it. I got married in the eleven's the black and red eleven's levin's wants threes fours and fives or my favorite. I got a bunch of fives and a bunch of levins. I'm looking always the tops. Like the design where the best. Yeah i have. Jordan designs them like lastly top three words. You hope your kids would use to describe as a dad. What would they be hug on. I'm sorry no this is. i mean. It's like immediately your emotional. I would say patient funny. Suber loving nice innovations and it is yeah patients in loving and all that in just in there is perfect. I love it. Tell people where they can find you on social media so on instagram. I'm still like fighting. Took talk like i should be on it. But i'm fighting it. I don't want to not on my mother's side millennial on that side melinda i'm like the millennial that still remember no cell phones. Yeah i'm on. I'm on instagram. Anthony lobue official amman twitter at anthony lobby and youtube mud. Asaka my writing partner. And i we have. We have our schedules which now we're getting themselves so we're going to be a lot more like lonely island. Nice make some long-form seventeen good stuff coming out. So you know we'll we'll see opel play with Everybody likes it That's that's funny. You do a modest saga in man. I g twitter miracle. I appreciate the time. I really enjoyed your father adjoining just sharing that. And of course the great things that you're doing with the show on your team over at netflix on family reunion family love to know bunch of people love it. We want more and more seasons more seasons. But i wish you and your family continued success. There thank you so much. I really appreciate you guys watching and thanks for the support. Thanks for listening to the art. Fatherhood podcast leave a review. Wherever you listen to podcasts and go to the art of fatherhood dot net.

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Calvin Chin - Creating a Real Estate Empire by Finding Your Why Ep. 231

Everything Real Estate Investing Show with Sean Pan

1:00:21 hr | 3 months ago

Calvin Chin - Creating a Real Estate Empire by Finding Your Why Ep. 231

"This is everything real estate. Investing show shawn kemp three interview. Local investors professionals took over tips tricks and investing strategies to help you learn about the business to enable you chief financial goals and now welcome to the show. What's going on everyone and welcome to episode two hundred and thirty one of the everything real estate. Investing show with sean ham. Today we have calvin chin a real estate investor base in the bay area. Who went from working at a high paying tech job into becoming a fulltime real estate investor calvin fiancee's on my good friend jenny. Lot a top thirty under thirty realtor and podcast way back on episode. Twenty two is episode. We'll be talking about how he went from. Purchasing single family homes into buying commercial multifamily properties and how to build relationships with brokers have him. Take you seriously and hadn't start. Sending you more deals will often be talking about the coaching program. And how they're helping dozens of investors get over there negative mindset issues to start investing and began to pass towards financial freedom. So if you're looking for an easy way to get into real estate investing the you need to listen to this episode. If you enjoy this podcast quick favor support the show. I leaving review on apple podcast app more views. We get the more the show grow. Which duke more cool stuff and this market is still incredibly high. So if you're looking for a hard money loan for your fixing projects or if you're looking for a thirty year fixed loan for your rental properties with rates as low as four percent. Contact me sean everything. Rei dot com. That's s. a. n. at everything or dot com. Let me know that. You're a podcast and i'll give you a discount on our processing fee and now onto the show are calvin. Thank you so much for being on a show today. Go ahead and introduce yourself. That's who you are and tell us what you do. Yeah so name is calvin chin. I'm a four ten investor. Now i Was back was coming from the tech space. I think all of us doing. I think from our perspective. We always are raised from day. One as were kids from society. Get a good job get great good school right down and lick retire at sixty five with the white picket fence. Who have kids in. A golden retriever. Right that was always embedded in me right. That's exactly what i tried to do. I won't say it was the smartest student around but You got good upgrades get a decent school in you know. Got a good tech job out of college and my Enjoying the cobra lateran. I think at the end of the day. I felt like all of us do at some point that there's been more life than than this Didn't warn morbid thing. I'll talk about that That kind of changed my life. Who like just understanding. Like y'all my deathbed like what i wanted. If someone imagine. If i had any read like where i have you got some like what what that would be right and really when you ask the question that people under death that it's it's mostly like it's never never ever. I wish i worked more right. It's always hey. I wish i spend more time with family. I was president which started business things like that right. So i knew i had to find a way out and You know started getting into real estate. Investing six years now both a portfolio up to recently now left my my my high paying bay area tech golden handcuffed corporate job ads do full-time rose. Investing and couldn't be happier. That's crazy man. 'cause like i said we have similar backgrounds where we have. We studied a lot to get to where we were in our careers and we kind of just gave it up to pursue something. That's completely irrelevant to what we studied all the time. I mean your job to you guys got paid a lot Do you wanna talk about like what would you did before you left to say yes. So i sold corporate sold as software. Right so start at a company called oracle small one that maybe somebody is about but Soul database in cloud. Storage there and then transitioned to hr is software You know and i know people say like hey i hit my w two but to be honest i much enjoyed my w i really thrived in it. I loved it because of the people one but also i always viewed it as a vehicle right just like real estate just like money. It's it's available to help us live away that we wanna live right so Use it while you can right. And i think that's like one advice i learned. Was that the side just about like all out of it. Sure might be part of a us. You can't write and and john. You know as much as anyone union having a w w can help jump start and give you steroids to or poor rocket fuel on on your portfolio because the lendings audience. You're a lot of things that can help you get into properties easier that way versus young going full. Want you're having good. W. two is a great way to build capital. How you make money to them. By more investments. We do a lot of friends in the space. Who left their fulltime job without having a good amount of savings and so now the State but they have a lot of credit card debt. They're struggling. they're finding me one or two good deals for the whole year whereas if they could just had a job had a much easier life and still investor on side Going back to like the whole like morbid thing about be on your deathbed and having announced regrets you know. When i was working on my time job i hated it. I didn't enjoy sitting there. I felt page us. Wore my seat. My coworkers were uninspiring people. They were maybe thirty years my senior. They were complaining about the job. They're complaining about the pay. We have these crazy benefits but then from outsiders perspective you write nasty. Damn you have a good job. You guys get paid pretty well what what made it so you want to be job. Yeah that's a great question. I think at the end of the day like the purpose right like yes cool at selling. Hr software mandates. It's cool but like what what what impact really make on the world that right. There's a really good book by david brooks called the second mountain right and it goes over to monitor your first on is like all climbing right trying to get fulfilled in essence Finances fitness faith friends and family right. And we're all trying to gets that point but then a second one is one cup full. You have warned other people right. That second mountain is all about what kind of impact on the world. What kind of legacy can i leave to. Not only my family but the community and people. I touch any genre even this pockets. That's a great impact that you're helping a lot of people out You know just get starting real estate or today nextstep right and that's what we wanted to like. You know we had this idea of you know we. We now also do. Coaching part of that was how can we make an impact on this world on on different place right and you know we were like. I said hey. Let's our nonprofit. Let's say out You know super kitchen things like that were we. We were understanding words gifts for us. A superpower is that we have row hades. Rosie thing is is done pretty well for us in. We've been able to live at that. We live today. Why can we not bring that to other people right and so that they can live more life and then spread that and that's really the compound interest right there. We can help someone else. Like one of our students right. They can help tone in their community. Maybe it's their friends or family. Their cousins brothers sisters of daughters or sons right and then same thing over and over and over again and saying that we're gonna make an email must level of impact but heckman like we could make the world a little bit that replace than we did before That's really what all about in israel back on your question like you know. I wasn't getting that right at at at my job. Right am i am a corporate job right to four hundred fifty company again great culture. I love the people that work there but that the day man like you know. There's there's a financial picture right. That's the golden handcuffs I was like. I was always you know trading my time for money right and i got. I think we all got to point where you are. We who had done it for so long and he as vehicle that that caught up where our assets were meekness. Were i can comfortably say on good on the job and focus on really what i was passionate about which was again making a better impact on this world and had more purpose. 'cause mean you you have your thing to like i think for the most part like when you see people make a transformation and change in their life and they're grateful for that do. There's no better feeling it's priceless rights. Decking that right there inherently is is one of the most valuable things that anyone could feel one but to give to the world. Yeah i totally agree with that and going back to your point if you're selling software you don't feel the impact of all the lies changing from selling the software to accompany the same way you'll making sidelight hours. A small piece in this giant wheel and sites are out there. Possibly saving lives of soldiers have no idea right Biding feel philip for working on this satellite whereas for real scene investing for hosting meet ups having this podcast Videos is nice. Because i have people sending me nice long emails saying oh my god you helped me so much. I got into my. I deal as hard money lender. I am working fulltime. I job yet. But i'm like enabling people's dreams because i'm giving them money to that then become big investors and julie corporate clients. Yeah their brand new. They have no idea. And i'm out here giving them the loans. And now now they're able to like do your projects become flippers themselves so yeah stupor fulfilling and it's different right. It feels different now. We're working. We're still working but it's play. It's not like i'm just doing it because you have a choice to do it and you want to. You've helped a lot. My suit stewart right. It's like man like it's awesome. Like hey sean thank you so much for helping me build my empire Now i can give back to right because again the end of the day like what we always say. It's passive income is great but all about passing the impact right so you create the passing income to create passive impact right. And i know that's what you're doing with your podcast you're meet ups and even lending right like you're giving people enabling them to take action has also never heard that phrase before intact. That's so cool. Yeah so let's go back to your story. How did you get introduced to investing on the show You know in the very beginning and You know she doesn't mind knowledge. Go from yeah. I appreciate that you You know i was in the stage of my life where i was still in his boyhood right and when i was like twenty twenty two twenty three and i. We're both in his crowd. So we're both looking at where better and I applaud her because she was the first person who got a i. I'm gonna go take action somewhere right so you know what she was at this conference one time and she just dragged me to this conference and i got in there and they were doing the tony robbins. Who lost off nauseam Colt and by state right and that changed my life forever. Right state and i was like. Wow what is this thing we have been looking for. What are the ways that we can do. We always heard real estate within the stocks. Dad is in stocks Crypto is liking Compensates for but Real estate is just make sense at that time like it was tangible. There's different ways with money. It felt like the the most risk free but also like what the average person could do as well right like again. I'm not the smartest guy in the world right. But i can conceptualize. I don't sit at the board of apple. I don't do drugs with allama us in in. Stop them from Tweet thousand miller tonight. Right like i had no control personnel. I love having trouble of my situation writes all about that. Ob's of hey be the ceo of your life right. So now i felt was Good actually do that right you. You are in a way a ceo of your portfolio rights to us at not only find the deal but in managing and make sure it's operationally efficient. Imagine making money right. So that's what really drew drew us to to rule estate As vehicle it again. Because i don't want to lose sight of that it's a vehicle man just like money right. Dislike stocks crypto. Quarter to live the life that you won't live that's the perspective that we look at it at a real estate you know. Lsu on another person's podcast yesterday and the in question like hey why real estate out of all the other businesses that you could possibly done and told them actually did different businesses. like back. In the day. I was selling selfie sticks on amazon. I like hawaii selfish. Don't try to appeal to the girl crowd and do it do very well. I was telling e books. I was crying at the small biz with but the thing is with real estate. Investing it's like is a consistent business that you can do. Even if you're not like hyper business savvy because face it. Most businesses when you started has a twenty percent chance of succeeding over five years so we wrote the investing is like well. You're buying day one. And supposedly it's cash flowing from day one so you really can't lose. As long as it continues cash flow you invest in a good market where always have attended. Tendencies right right. And it's it's a thing that's been around since the dollar time man like if you look at like back. In the night area era right like lord or landlords right like. It's not going anywhere like you will always be a place to live and you know population has been growing right and as you know like that hasn't been a lot of houses being built Supply people so i mean just the the high level measures like there. I mean that's it's always gonna be around and it's a it's a it's a physical asset is all right so going from i experiencing for exposure in two thousand fifteen. How did you transition active buying your first property and like your fears Before buying a very first one. Why so many i. Well there's two two stories are one is. The first thing that i did was was by my own personal place right. And i did that too. House hack hack as well. We talked about that. You've been on our our our universities won't talk about that but i mean it was really just to get our own finances right. I right because as you know right like if you can lower your expenses in continuously increasing right you can take home more that and then that's that in my mind puts rocket fuel to be like all right now start investing fastened scale that way right. So that's the first thing we did obviously live in san francisco. It's not cheap either. Condos mortgage was like two thousand bucks I rented out. I was one bedroom den and i rented out san francisco style right one of those curtains right especially with the dad and i just put their rented out to a couple of hackers. Right like toning academy of people and yeah. I went to that out in like for like two hundred bucks so my monthly nut was ended ours where i was paying fifteen hundred dollars for rent i was going to the principal. Pay downright is getting his or my expenses. Right was kashmiri's laura my expenses from fifteen hundred to eight hundred dollars. And i got appreciation on it to end the tax write offs the depreciation so now there was a great way to set myself up to one stock money then You'll be able to that. So i think more fewer was actually on the first out of state investment property right and the i i i've seen invest party was in dallas in. I think we all go through those fears of like what can go wrong. I think fears is a supernatural thing in over that hump. I myself just like all will will understand where the fear comes from. I think if i look at the truth behind why feeling this like it made me feel a lot better about empowering to take action right because you know we're still comes from his. You know back in the day when we were all caveman like there were like dinosaurs out there right so we had fear in us to protect us in case it us right nowadays. No more dinosaurs right now. The fierce financial whereby lose money. I can't live my family right to this same fear that you have in know for me. It was like all right. Well let's let's. I understand with coming It's my body defense mechanism saying hey you know watch out like if you might lose your money and that for you just got to say. Hey thank you body for being defense mechanism right to try to protect me by got this. I've done the research. I've done all the things i need to do to protect myself. It's about self with right people and right mentors right die. Feel confident that. I can take action in the worst case. What's the truth behind it. Say buying a hundred forty thousand dollars property in dallas like in various our here like what's the matter gonna lose everything now right. It's a great way to get in right and and just see what happens right and again dot in right got over that fear got in accepted that and yeah over with a couple things right next right like that one thing that i never even thought about affects that like i mean it's really got vacancy in there you triggering Out right for self thousand mistake. I made but you know gin. I learned that. And guess what. I'm never made that same cover again. All right cap accents at everything ideals to make sure that it looks like it's come perform right. Yeah i mean absolutely went through some fears got over him and had new fares time that you of scale up to new york every time you go from single family. Two birds were flipped to a quad to an apartment complex. I always had that like kind of tightening up. We'll call it a like. Oh crap but at the same time my lawsuit that is that it doesn't scare you a little bit visit. Make you feel a little uncomfortable than it's worth doing. my model. This year is actually feeling comfortable being uncomfortable right feeling comfortable being uncomfortable because what that means is like when we're uncomfortable that's the biggest growth happens right so i wanna be. Okay feel uncomfortable because when you're comfortable you're you're complacent now. You're on the couch or washing tire. King on netflix. Do nothing right cheat right. Were you feel uncomfortable. I was like oh crap. I'm doing something. I'm doing some big. I'm losing important right And that's where. I want to start living morning. You know fuel is nerve wracking right. It feels scarier right. Yeah i mean he feels uncomfortable right. It's funny so we both have like courses and we have students go we like buy properties of state and again. The the biggest fear is the fear of the unknown. Like they don't know what's out there. They don't know what they don't know and they're scared that if they buy something he'll put them in a worse financial position than if he did nothing at all. Then i found that once you will buy their first deal and they realized how like not a big deal it is the nearby more often is isn't one person buys a property and within like where to buy another property. Yeah you get the bug man. You get the hug us right. After i bought my first property issue. I bought another one and thereby four plex right after this happened. You yep exactly man. It's like your first like oh. This is super cool right and then like the next couple months work. Let's look for another one. How do you scale up like it's funny. I think we all have these limiting beliefs in my own mind like in like riot. When we first started investing we we went to seminars. Lost stuff and like the goal has man like my dream. I someday dream was like ten units in my life. My lifetime on me stoked like abby. My life right like stoked. right. And i've i had a time machine i would go back to galveston slap him. He'd like that was dreaming way too small right like because that was right. That was possible. The time right. I just didn't know what was possible right. Then you start seeing like your asses start to -cremento him and you're you're you're making more money and buying assets right. It's effective it. Start small top than momentum of money or the moments in the assets in. that's when blow up where you now we're like we're eda units. And it's like dude. Like i you know there's only been number i i feel like i can quantify it changes every every every couple months i feel of what's possible stop fossil and yet to your point on the student side of things like yeah like the biggest piece that i see a lot is the word i hear a lot is the empowerment like i just feel empowered to take action. They need that little push right because emmy dude we both have courses do but anyway go on youtube go on tv courses all the stuff but guess what you have done that royal books that donald the podcast gone to all of them taking action. Why right and because people you surround yourself with one but two it's It's that that the take action the little push of like. Hey man you got right that mindset piece of that. I think a lot of people talk about right. It's just like you need that as a jumping off point exactly. It's so interesting like we think about what's possible. I remember when i was working on my very first job. And i was like twenty one or twenty years old now calculating how can it become a new era in my lifetime. This is like it's impossible like my mom didn't make it right my dad and do it. How does it. I remember doing calculations. If i save eighteen thousand year and compounds like i get it and then boom. That's intended later. I got it right. And it wasn't even that bad duty crazy right invest in some like any of us and was below and they were not consistent a putting money in saving and investing the right stuff. Then you get it. I'll sit there to consistency right. And that's what separates us from being as an identity like a real estate investor or Sunny morning investor or you a sunday morning of asteroid or you really investor in. It takes time right. I think the create identity. May you gotta start with your first. And then eventually it becomes identity. I don't for use on our for myself. In the very beginning you know had very positive i share with my belt. Am i really roasted investor. Right i didn't feel that right so the first year or two in you start to grow more man like it's becoming more who you are a beam Is an identity right now. And i'm not one right. Let i'm sorry. I was gonna say like in the very beginning you know. Everyone knows me as an engineer. No one thinks of me as a real estate investor right. Yeah and even when became hardly leonard. No one thought it means armagh for the first year so it's time to fill in the role. Yeah and it's funny that you mentioned act like the whole identity pieces kind of were like i'm focused on right now is because like you said like you know for me. At least it was like you know my was rocking on the tech sales guy. That's why i am as a person right and then you have to make that switch right to entrepreneur to rules investor right to elite rights. It's tough because you're who am i right. I really i. What's mashburn slots. We can really powerful when my buddies. I've told me it was like a coup. Who do you need to become dude. Who who do you. Who what's your identity. And i was like man i don't i don't know man. I don't know what my new identity is right. Because seen so Identity that like you gotta know what your diet is should be. You can start to act that person today that you need to be to become that person right. It's kind of dressing for the job that you want for. Since jesse from the job you have whatever said one hundred seventy you'd like to. You're making 'cause. I don't really think You're tricking your conscious to think that you are that person. Because you're subconscious works way more bits per second than than your your conscious mind does right so you can treat your subconscious thing about that right. It's like i say like man sean. Like t- like management a. Lotta red mercedes on the really like you're gonna be on the cloud mercedeses right now. Right because there's so conscious not thinking about the now you're like you're seeking an outright and so when i think about like investors right when i think about like when people say man like you know people are so lucky successful. We were so lucky right what let's define. What is luck dude like. I think luck is putting yourself in right situations right in would you. Are you know mama. Thomas mesler Exxon networks for Pass me capacity right like you're seeking the opportunities right to get there. I remember when. I was trying to get an apartment complexes i was like i. I'd never done it for once. You right so. I could not say like how i'm i'm apartment complex vessel. Anne eventually opportunities to start randomly. Luckily may we'll call luck presented itself. But i took advantage opportunity when they came across right. Yeah absolutely so. Let's talk about your portfolio now. So in the beginning you're doing single family. Homes in dallas texas texas. We started on texas the dallas in san antonio. Okay and then. I guess like how many do you have to transition whole apartment version. Why go to apartments versus continue with single family space. Yeah so we built it up we got to like around twenty something units I forget now we're run that twenty unit range and why okay. So here's here's why. I was finishing bird project right in this. We're trying to like six months to complete but right in and outright and it was great deal right. I got all my money out and and some we all read so like like the. It's been great right but the capital of hundred bucks at net after all the refinancing Stuff and it's been like six months on it and i was like to. How many doing the math. I just like you did right. I like dude is it. How many of these do to get to where i want to be. And this is gonna take forever right so all like what's i've always been scared or i had fear by doing apartment complex because the numbers figures in extra comma. We'll call it may like am. I ready for this right so you know i think one was just surrounding myself with people that are doing it right into kind of just picking their brain and feel uncomfortable in you know. I'm all about like you are the people that yourself with war. Give confidence Right i could. I could do this. Why why not lodging. What's the truth behind his. Why would i be reduced So that's really what got me to jump into that more commercial space in thinking about the numbers. I mean we still do. A commercial property basis burst right like your value adding right now. It's load different because again as we control right. You control the deal more because you understand what the cap rates you know. Exactly what's worse or you can prove that the bank right so with that being said like i love the whole. It's a math equation. Right of like what you could do what you can raise rents what how much money for renovations things like that. Or is it. Operational is no property manager. Mom paul that you need to somebody that can raise rates actually do it right right But like a day like doing the same thing just a little bigger money right and put our money in now cashing a hundred bucks for cash like three thousand bucks right and that feels like. It's more time and to be honest. The amount of work that i did to do a commercial versus like single-chamber man. I would say very similar amount of work. Maybe less on the commercial side to be honest. I'm if you bought the team it's all again like in any real on the front. End of yugoslav-croatian. I but man league now i see like the the fruition of work. It's like midnight while i go back. And then what are the next time the differences between single family versus multifamily. I mean especially the side. I heard loans commercial law on the loan side for sure. I mean you can get twenty or twenty five or six fix ride like so you always like thinking about ok will fire deteriorate rose. We're gonna do next kind of thing right But you'll hetchy found like right now. The commercial ones are pre. Like pretty pre- pretty nice looking right like i've talked lenders at doing thirty year fixed mortgages amortized or not six thirty or amortize mortgages on commercial deal right a million dollars plus alone right At like at three point seven five percent right. And that's a really really good. So i look at that right now and i now students that our prime properties that are under one hundred k. They're having more promising loans than i am. Mendoza why do is too low to anybody right like yeah but like you know in in other milliards house Having problems finding on on the first one hundred million but above million dollar loan lenders like cool it. So let's go right in. i think mid cova right. it was harder but now Loosen up again. And they see what's happening in the market they see what's copying the rents in values right now so in the back in so right now like man is going to sound crazy but i gotta lender right now. That's like you will. Instead of having six months stabilize rents to show income. I'll take one right. Which again like you know arena. Don't know man. But like i'll take the one when i can right So yeah. I mean in terms of that difference lending side absolutely I think the math equation right is is a little different. I mentioned like single family house like you. Don't control the contract. I hope that house next meets solids for more semi values right and you can always predict like okay. We'll renovate it to the scale. Make it look like that house the value but you know in in commercial. I like it. 'cause it's i'm very numbers driven. I think you are too. It's like hey like here it is. I can get an ally up to here right by doing xyz and based on the current trading captain area. You know this is what the value is going to be and again like two conservative project. A higher cap to thing. I'm not saying that. We're going to have a lower cabbie ridiculous but you know same rehire i think is checking if that still meet your criteria that that that that's a deal right so how you finding opportunities. Yeah so. I mean similar to residual All people base right so Network in in brokers right so i mean number one way find deals are working with brokers right An agreement relationship with them. I think the same you relationship with rose agent a good one like you build the trust. You want to build a brand for yourself that hey this is something that can close If they're putting refer you. You're showing them that you're receiving it and giving it back to them right so that they feel valued as well. Hey you're sending me deals cool. I'm giving you feedback right. A forty forty response on used to be twenty four hours. You get a little visitors of forty eight hours. Pay like this deal right. This is why cannell cannot do. And that way i mean it's it's a working relationship that are growing right with that person and i for me like you know the last thing that we did. I've done like four transactions with one broker in last year right and they they gave us the inside track on on this deal. Or hey how you i think you you kind of need it. Some other offers. I think got Compete against these other offers like be competitive. This with owners looking for is giving you the more inside information that you need to get done. Just like just like a residential right. So i think from that perspective like being able to just that relationship of this person's a serious investor and can close. Look at not only our side right you on your side when you're lending us can this personality executing closed you that person because that's as a commercial broker and it's not an easy job value them so much because they're they're the first few years of commercial brokers life man. They're not making any money man. They're building relationships. Or as you're basically paying for the releases. They built a hard sweat equity that they put in phone calls like a pound of the paving knocking on doors. Fliers all that stuff and that guy value that right. 'cause i don't wanna do that so yeah like i value your owner and they're gonna call you for sure but lemme value that by at least giving you the time of day I'm being responsive and not wasting your time because you only get paid when you close the deal right. So how do you go about creating those relationships with broker. Let's say that were who's well known. Industry they wanna get into multifamily apartment. Buildings split are basically starting from scratch. How do you go about criminals relationships with brokers Request i mean that's funny too because i think i think our residential side a young hungry agent is where i love the most because the the established stylish agents like they've got their network they've they've got investors or top five or so to break into that top five like it's going to be tougher right so that young age it's up and coming and hungary i loved on residential side. Commercial is a little different right because the young hungry commercial guy. They haven't really got to the yet right now. No deal on the right. An absolute i mean you can always say in touch with the even when they're young and hungary right than you grow with all my god. That's gotta be the the crime right right But yeah i mean it's kinda got student data If they are found they can get an owner to be like a actually. I'm gonna sell with this guy versus the guy for five years. Absolutely jumble not trained fast riding again same. Same thing right. Like i'm not saying that. I would say like like don't work with those young agents on commercial if you can find them and they're actually they're actually going out there doing the work in and find deals and absolutely i mean it's all about a win win situation on both ends of they're finding deals and you can execute on them and grow with them. That's actually the best way you can do it right Lowest hanging fruit right is going to be the brokers that have added relationship. They had systems down already right so i mean there's no harm in working both ankles were hey man. I love the sports. You in your journey as long as you can help sport my journey as well right so it's both give and take right win win situation and so how would you go about creating relationship with more established broker given that. You're basically nobody to them like. Why would they take you seriously. Yes that's right you got. I mean like i said it's it's how you show up every day. Are you up to every conversation you have with them right so it's not like like one. The number one thing is don't waste your time right. If you're not ready to buy don't waste your time right. Like i know like an engaged with my. I'm ready to rock. Like i'm putting yellow wise in right up for like three otherwise this week. Sometimes i'll put blind analyzing right. Because i'm helping them get fed right so if you just go the angle of all right like were. They were they need. They need to get that right. So you know. They have deals on there all evaluate all about you every single deal. Tell them hey. This is not good or it is good and all you can give them a price at all said. Even yesterday. Human like the best. I can do this. I'll put in a wife. You want me to write like am i. Don't want to waste your time right so. He's being really respectful of their time as well. Because you know man like everyone signs valuable not just but there's as well right so honoring that Them like asking permission. Like hey like do you want me to. I would do this if you like this deal. I'll put it in for sure. But i don't wanna lose your time and can we go in depth. How you analyse deals like what numbers are you looking. For specifically on a commercial residual the so commercial yes so commercial side of things like when we go to due diligence. You're all his documents. I rent rolls. Teach wallace Losses utilities right. So right now we're gonna deal a three six hundred. Were we just got information of utilities taxes. Garbage bills lawn care. Obviously you know commercial space. You're always With incumbents because investors are the ones blind this not like a emotional buyer. That's only investors really right so i'm gonna make sure that all the data looks correct right like is still worth my numbers right. So you told me in a proforma like you're operating expense star xyz for lawn care for utilities. All that stuff right So what i'm doing is i'm verifying data back right. What is actual. Do say right. So for example in this one we got the due diligence back. One was yeah their water bills higher than they said they was riding. Were projecting like twelve. Cain actually eighteen k right so that's one thing right things verification at least right so legal leases right and i'm like all right will is. Actually reese score correlate with what you told me on your rentals and of course it's gonna change on how long your due diligence as like. Maybe somebody moved out. But rob only make sure i have all my ducks in a row right because at the end of the day that the key metrics look for you Than what what's i going to be ongoing in the capitol building in you know what my renovation budget is going to be where i think it's gonna be worse after you know putting that budget in if i can raise rents to xyz now back to matt napkin like one thing. All afforded universe faces. What is the rents right now. And what is market rents right so ten. Call it freezing math ago raise. Rents i two hundred bucks a door quite as raise. You know mike by two hundred to get wherever it is like. I can't do math or now whatever it is and what if you do that. Then you're at a y right saying it's a fifty percent or forty two percents offering ratio or essentially. Show right. then you kind of just do the back math of like what can i have four just like we do back mountain residential right like on the inside. I can just get my calculator out. Nowadays aren't needed dealing with Calculator as a deal. That i think i should even look at deeper right so same thing. There is are spread in in what they are today versus what the rents are going to be because in commercial my mind like you need a value at right. If you're getting the commercial you can't buy turkey and just like you know how you could. But like i think the most efficient way to in commercials when value add. Because if not then you know you're not really adding right not not forcing any appreciation and do you have any like target metrics that you wanna get like a casual per door or are you evaluating your deals worth your time. Yeah i mean for me like the evaluation is almost a bird right. I got every commercial a burr. Can i get my money out after right. So hey if i can get rents what is today right and to me. I usually more like i. I wanna be at seven percent cash cash white when i enter and i want to be my money out after i get out after i renovate difference up right but nowadays i more all right i care less about me what i'm entering at as long as the like breaks even cash flows with low bit right and i care about at stabilization. I want to get december percent at least right now now looking at all the different exit strategies but then after exit of refinance we call it i to have a lot money out. So that's what i look. I mean if it's a deal that i want to do like yes or no like that's where my maximum available offers bs is if i can get my money out at ended at base my projections in based on my conservative projections makes sense. And then are you. Also pretty like twenty percent down for these multifamily properties. Yeah twenty percent down okay. And i'm guessing because above that one threshold you're doing like a was freddie mac small balance loan so it depends on the project right so like even this project right now. We're we're going. Recourse in right and then we will refinance to any freddie got it. So you're doing bridgestone. I because you wanna refinance later and then get your money back whereas they like. The institutional debt has prepayment penalties hard to refinance. Meter is like the people. I work with right now. It's recourse but no prepayment penalties right so it's great so like we're project a year at least to get our money back out anything so after that year cool. I don't want to right. I wanna be able to get money back out and then go into non-recourse right so that we're all out of personal guarantees in law's death knicks on. So i guess going back to what you're doing so you left your fulltime job recently to now be a real estate investor. Full-time how are you spending that time. Nowadays that's a great question is relative my life right now man. So so my lab. Like what am i. Let is in kylie tony robbins kinda guy and he his philosophies that you can have six hour days where you can get everything done Can do six hours in but you not three those days in one day. So i've kind of built my my day now because again. Like a w persson. You're you're scheduled pre structured right. Exactly i got these call it corporate law but is entrepreneurial unscrambled. It's got figure out what's what's important to you right so i was at a with me today. I'm actually my parents to but like searched a six hour blocks now right so actually wake up three hours. I work out right at five. Mile arm Six then workout right then. My day started with meditate Do my affirmations shower right than i do for three hours of the day. Then i start my adm boom on the call of team giving them tasks to do for the day iva's and then The first half my day. I spent on like the investment side of things so I i have a block out for like the big. Three eight is the big. I i need to do today to get me to my my vision right so again. We talk about vision right. It's always that launch from goal but then you work backwards Monthly what's what's my yearly with my daily. What's my today. Google right so big. Three's the habits bill to get there and My other hours lock is you know messaging rich brokers deals. You know things like that. My my next six hours of folks on the university right. I'm talking about your systems. Making the delivers my students better talking students. Things like that Talk to my team. Right talking coaches being sure that all that is tight and we're on lockstep with war were were mission where business An annex six hours. And i have three hours a day that i've spent for myself enter jenny. I've got out of date night on wednesdays percent thirty That is a non-negotiable date. Night that we might say perfect at this but try not to be on our phones right Actually the other day we switch phones would be tempted. So that's kind of how i structure my day nowadays. that's cute. so how's it like working with your your partner. I know sometimes when you're working with someone that you're in a relationship can be kind of cult. I was wondering how has experienced pretending for you. Yeah it's funny. Because i think we have like the others that are on board were which is awesome right and i guess first off like on its if you found someone like that to such an amazing experience to share with someone. That being said yeah. It's it's not always easy. We always eat sometimes. We have different philosophies on things. We should that susan that or like you know how we always bring up rolls and stuff so i mean again like it's going to sound cliche but it's occasion. We do the one thing couples retreat questioner every year out so just celebrating lockstep with like understanding where we're at the Mentally and light. You know what what they actually want. In in their life anything Not only in just like real estate right but also like family. Like especially now that j r gauge right. Like we wasn't pretty open with each other like an open book. I we've always even talked about finances pretty early on our relationship. Which is i think really healthy. I don't know why so. Taboo this world that finances right. It's like what's billed aussie. It's probably because of shame. Shame they don't get judged by their partner and that's why they keep it hush hush right in and actually for me. I'm sure she told you this but we're also play competitive with each other right so he actually had a bet that every year. That's like right. Will who can make more money. Right is the person that loses asked by other in an investment property. And or anyone out there. And i was like my. Llc where miles is named be eighty property holdings day property holdings and pure. I mean i'm like well don't worry about. I lost that. And that's what that means. So i think healthy lives in again. We're not perfect by any means but they just over communicating sometimes in understanding. Okay we'll and we actually use. Request is nowadays where accurately now to call the mode in emotion dialogues Something like that. She doesn't better but really one person will speak for fifteen minutes straight and the other person just receiving anything goes against anything Talk rights. i liked to shut up right. And that's probably from union. This lie i. I shut up an island. Her right and she kinda like gets everything out at the end of it. You say what else right and it's just like an inch wore a louis dinner. We better day where we did. This end hilarious like i've never been identified. Never talked right. So i said she talking talking talking talking and i was just receiving right but was really good because sometimes you just need released right and then after that you switch sides and then you talk and they're not say anything because sometimes when you talk and have a conversation a kind of derail is from what you really want to get out all the time so it was really powerful at sites. Do one of our coaches at the like. Just talk and just listen. And that's sounds so simple. But i swear to god. It's changed a lot of dynamics of communication for us. That's hilarious because sometimes when weekend like arguments right she talks is listen. I'm like i get it. I'm good say something more. I'm dan case. Yes maybe expectations. You're not taught victim. It's not right and then i'll say something you're not gonna talk right. 'cause i'm probably like yeah think about it for the whole night if you like i say because sometimes i think i'm probably i'm probably i. I go over my motions on the sleeve. I'm like i'm going right away. Residents more analytical like get back to the conversation on that so but that's that's funny that dynamic too. I think that that that synergy really helps out too of like some that. She's really good at. I'm not right. There's some things i'm really good at night. She's not just having expectations of those roles as We've kind of had like these exhortations of our our partnership. Call it now. Not even or his changed so much since we started. I think i met you in begs like way back. We were different people back then man like for sure. I think we had just started our rousse journey by sixers. Whatever it was and like Like hugh who what. How are we still is so government how it is now. I cannot bribe honor and really appreciate the most of our. Chemin probably your relationship Sharon is like maybe we've grown so much in different ways right through our lifestyle versus i've been for you don't grow rights. It's like that's always been the base relationship like maybe one person grows in the other person doesn't right that's tough right where we're both are growing together in. Maybe it's so different when you're still growing right together in for a common goal. Yes that's really cool. Yeah it's really cool to work with your significant other like i have. Never you know basically work with another of my past ex's you in the past. Yes i mean. That's why i because there's there's not too many people who are in the space who really does the same thing with significant other usually. It's like one of the guys doing or like the girls doing it. But you not as a couple together and you know i've had partnerships in the past to like with friends and whatnot. We're do things together and you know just working with your significant other It's it's different right because there's an emotional component to it but that's a good thing too because like if there's an issue and if is your friend sometimes you can't always say on your mind right. You have to have some kind of barrier where you're like alright like i be respectful. 'cause he's my friend right. Business partner could be respectful but when she ruins your significant other yet respectful. But you can still be more. I mean you know. Like say pretty bluntly 'cause you know like there with you sharon i had this course together right and it took us a whole year to get this. Launched one of the reasons because we had a lot of disagreements on what kind of content we should put on it. She has san of quality. We say you know Done is better than perfect. Love arguments back and forth and of course another hard part is when you're working with you are usually like going to work at the lower energy of whoever is working as example. I wanna work. She wants to watch tv. We end up watching tv. It happens again with a partnership would be like no you get one thing done. The other person would get so. Yeah you know what. I found sean. Best speakers you know is is you have a conversation with them and you compromise. And you do what she wants to do. And that's how you that's how it works dude. I completely agree so like how's it been for you in terms of like arguments. Do you guys just tablet or is there anything special that you know. It's funny man. We we haven't had any like any big bites right. Like i can name maybe to advising in our life right our. We've been dating. I guess engaged. Now we've been together for six and a half years seven. How many time flies. But i mean it's i think it really depends on people right like i'm like a pretty level headed person than she is to. Which is i think that in my mouth. Ross from this is like if it doesn't matter in five years don't dwell on for five minutes so yeah maybe you know you get ticked off but when you think about it like it's steaming fear conversation. I'd like where's this coming from. Why am i so rodber now. We'll just take five minutes right myself. Feel went five minutes then. Maybe it's worth more conversation but it doesn't matter five years from now i'm more than five minutes on it than i'm releasing it right and the other aspect is mainly. You can't control That either i can do right like we ought sakes we all know we. I'm sure we sometimes we'll also different opinions on south but then you can't talk about out like i will tear your side. Here's my side. What actually makes more sense kazan. Like together i mean. We're still working thing. He can't lose sight of that like like. I'm always in the faculty. I like to kill and today like our vision. I know religion. She does my vision. Like we're pretty locks those univision stuff. Now one thing that i'll share this might be tmi but It was but we just got engaged. And when you get engaged the first thing they all your family members all your friends are asking when you have kids. We have disagreement on. Wanna have kids right conversation. I'm not like it's an argument. I wouldn't define it as an argument. Right i find it as. Hey we're having conversation about how we plan our lives together and perspective piece right like even like as i look at like leaving w. I don't think i'm quitting. The w why i'm doing at summertime corporate. It's i like my mindset works on that right so even the verbiage switch of like Quitting 'cause i couldn't it means you're leaving it because you know you could do it right for my mind like i'm retirement. I have a choice so returning from from doing that right. So same thing with these kind of conversations call. It's like dude like Just having a conversation about plan together and yeah we have this conversation. But hey at the goal i know. She's a. I love and i want to be with her in. Yeah we we will talk supplement having a family. Just how are we plan on living the life and being the ceo of our lives and designing the way we want to together right so we compromise into jewish. She wants to do. That's amazing so. I know you guys have been investing gather but you also recently created that university. Do you wanna talk about coast university and white guys creating the first place so i think i kind of put some nuggets in the beginning but like really for us was the first piece was. Hey how can we get our full right of in. We had done to the one thing couples retreat years ago in our one thing journal. We have our sunday goals right in. Somebody's is like we had like. I think twenty twenty nineteen or between twenty I opened that back up. You know sometimes you to like reviewing niro journals right. Alex with my sunday goal isn't knows that man like holy crap. We've hit a lot of these. We water dream house last year. We better passing goal. That was always like our effort number right like that. We thought was at the number back in the day and again like four dollars changes now and so like we were in this lockstep of like man like we're doing what he fulfilled like you know. What can we do now. Like the second model of like. How can we get back right. How can we create impact on people Again can never get a passing a supen on you could do a drink open anyways And actually did. I pretty decently for in looking at nonprofits in those but i will. How can we help other people better and give that others. Can we compound that right that effect. So that's where we launched ideas in coast right and started creating that in with the mindset of okay like i said before like slogans like help helping people passing him so they they can create passive impact asking can progressively that that to me was so powerful like like just looking at real as a vehicle like the big y refer people right so like a lot of people and and we've turned down because i'm just all about like i wanna be rich. Well why do you wanna be. Rich was the substance behind. Watch from rick. Because that's what the joneses is site has to be successful or that kind of soon that we want. That's we got a bunch of friends app force that you can go to those right but for us. It's like what are you gonna do for your families. Spend time with was to give back in. Our philosophy is our students are like you should be about throwing the rope back down for our students are golden. Our mission is like. Hey we want to get you the pasminco-owned goal that you desire. I can get you to hydrofoil but at the same time the culture is i want you to roll back down with people. Because i know that's happened to me. I'm sure the top of your mentors right you get there. You'd have top mountaintop. You doubt there till and that's our philosophy. on universities. We focus a lot on the rules. Eight investing sized But really it's more about a communities. I'm talking about like how can everyone inside the city help each other out right and support each other. 'cause it's not easy right i was off saying is if you wanna go over my mentor. Meals say like you wanna go fast you go too fargo together. Right and in real estate knows You notice rare. Well it's like it's people game in its you can't just by yourself right So y- how you show up to everyone how you show up never conversation how you show up to other people right. You never know doesn't come from we've been in masterminds. Were you know we just are authentic people to other people like january just trying to like be friends and like understanding not ni- expecting anything in return and those of organically turned into deals or partnerships or things like that and that's what i preach it's like dude like just show up as genuine authentic person and the universe will take care of itself. I mean you guys. Let me speak at one of your courses. Couple of months ago and i saw the community really good. Everyone's really supportive. It was interesting though. I didn't realize you ready to you like meditation africa. I was like. Oh what's this new. There's nap before. Yeah expect if they were to join your university program You mentioned that too because we all work our jobs right nine to five jobs and we don't want when people show up to our calls to be so stressed out about all manner fargo work or whatever we do this through do the meditations we do the tony robbins. Fire reading the exercises hock things like that because we want people to get in right. Mindfulness to be able to absorb the information about to receive because of they're not stuck on man. I was a total day right. Like that's thing about the whole time and we don't want that energy in that call right Holding that container the container coming in right. So i answered your question of you. Know what to expect right like are tangible goal is every student one folks on one mindset removing will focus on the mentor ship. Which is strategy right. The systems in place to investor in third is the committing accountability. Right we want all of those aspects. More voice into one in selfishly or fully transparent. Like the we've been in a lot of mass riots in our lives we've been we've got talk because we've been coached to. We invest sixers in coaching ourselves. Every year we just take the best parts scene work for us. And that's what we made santos right uh-huh advocacy pillars. We'll expect is expect all those. But really like the tanner goal for all my students or aged being your first investment property you want to in the first six months right but unintentional goal is that you should feel empowered and confident take action and go from foundation which has been the habit going for six months to being an identity of the real estate investor. i am a real estate investor. I am real estate investor. I'm a apartment complex. I don't like just saying it over and over to ask firm that that is who you are right so at the end of this expense yet. Angelique invested property great but unintentionally. Is that you should feel confident. Empowered to take that action. And know that i can do this. Here's a real story right. You had talking to a broker. Hey man like. I got this deal here like you need to know expletive minutes we can do to next investor right because that's the market that we're in right now. It's so hot right now. Almost since be able to pick up the phone and five ten minutes understand. Hey is this a good deal get contract or not right. That's what everyone should expect. Is that that kind of level of like you know. Feeling of transformation of i can do this and watch me do is because i'm doing on phone in five minutes. I mean you you briefly mentioned like who it's not for like if they just want to get rich good fit but who would you say is the ideal person that would want to join your program. Yeah i mean. I think i i'll focus more on like the like who they are in there being right. It's that that wants to do is to get back right. The the students said i love love. Love working with are the ones like. Like i'm doing this so i can give and take the river assimilating. They're always giving a soon right now. That's this proactively. Just reaching out to other students being hey act like how can i help man like how. I've done this before like right in like that. That right there says everything about a person right about a coup surround yourself with who you wanna work with. Long-term is someone that is always to give because you know in the way the universe fan is like if you if you give and it's gonna come back around to you like a big believer in karma in what you put out. This would get back right. So the the person that report is yeah one person that is you know. Obviously looking at the scale pass minka portfolio in and have a choice in life not to say that the There will never leave but they also want that security of having our revenue sources. Well that's fine. But i want to know the why right so we interview every single student. That comes in and understand. Okay cool like you have your past income. Sure you want that right in that answer is i just want to be filthy rich right because i i wanna be. That's what i see on. Mtv cribs and that's all it can give right than men something about that that these line with what we're trying to teach us as people because we're transfer transfer people right not like this teach them how to real estate So the person that it is for is present understand. Say there's something else out there. I warned me In my life. And i know from the core that i do that from generally i and then i can go extremely and i feel my own i i can give back yeah awesome. Thank you so much time on the show today. How can people find out more about u. gadgets find me on on instagram facebook calvin chin anyone on its ramp calvin chin on on facebook and website zinc inco's university dot com so if you're ever curious for just scheduling call in this segment website in a call awesome Thank you against so much your time appreciate it absolutely appreciate i hope. He joins episode. You can find the show notes and other episodes. Cite everything dot com slash podcast. You live in the bay area. Joyner meet up group. We meet up twice a month in san jose at meet up dot com slash everything. Rei and she thought this was a great episode. Let me know what your key takeaways. And share it with a friend who's extending realty investing. Thanks have a great day. This was another episode of the everything real estate. Investing show with sean penn. Enjoy the show. If it's a five star rating it won't take a second and helpful lot. You contact me sean at everything. Rei dot com. That's s. t. a. n. at everything dot com. Thanks have a great day.

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#63 Coy Rahlmann

X Factor Roping Podcast

1:32:39 hr | 3 months ago

#63 Coy Rahlmann

"I think we've been missing out on the real details of ups and downs and what it really takes to make life for yourself in our industry. That's why decided to start recording conversations. So you could hopefully hear the real perspective from people that are pursuing self-development. Thanks again and i hope you enjoy this conversation as much as i did before we start this podcast i wanted to let you know about x factor roping dot com nikki and i for the last seven years have devoted our lives an x factor. Roping so that you can benefit from the best instructional content in the rope in industry x. Factor provides you with instructional videos and coaches so that you can achieve your roping horsemanship and mental game goals. Don't forget that we are now on every major app store including all smart tv devices. Invest in yourself get that membership x-factor roping dot com. I think we'd all agree are saddle is very important to us. After years of working with professionals martin salary has a new concept on their team. Roper this concept allows you the opportunity to design your saddle from the tree up. You can design your saddle to fit your specific needs by selecting the horn swell ground seat and kennel their over hundred different tree combinations available for you to build your saddle the way you want for more information. Visit martin salary dot com. I have a martin. I absolutely love it. My horses love it. I read it on every head horse that i possibly can. I use it all the jackpot's all the rodeos. I've had great results go check out my friends at martin's salary dot com now. I'm twenty twenty is rookie last year. Last year was a rookie year on the pse cement. I think about that as i've watched jackpot now for little over two years and this year is different rights. Just you're a different guy than you were a year ago. Right why do you think. That is Oddest kinda. Give me like a long story a little bit. So in two thousand and nineteen was senior high school and from the lone star shootout on one third with klay few trail that year and we won a thank like seventeen thousand a man maybe and then it was. Just kind of ongoing. That was my permit year to get to go to the circuit. Rodeos and stuff and era with brian on on that year and it seemed like we couldn't lose and that many l know why i don't know how but we just couldn't. We were so hot that year like we won air all the time and then we went to school final shawnee in highschool finals. I want every jackpot at shawnee and haskell finals all the high stakes and set their high school record that year at the haskell finals And then come home went back to circuit road on even went out a little bit to some of the closer big rodeos and just still couldn't lose i think i one thirty thousand my permit year and And then a little bit in the back of my mind. When i moved to paul's from from being in missouri all summer. When i moved to paul's i had a. I've always roped i've always loved open. Whatever but i think a little bow so green and that came so easy to me my permit year. I think a little bit of it was in the very back of my mind. I thought it would just always come easy. I think i was just kinda like thirty thousand my permit year. There's no way. I'm not gonna not set the world on fire my rookie year. You'd see where it would be fairly easy to do that. When you've won all kinds of stuff may not place twice at the spoke. That was one of the spoke was really starting to get big man want it with brady placed fifth or sixth the ryan heckman one little over ten thousand. I mean i just was on fire and doesn't nineteen. And so like i said i think i just kind of got a little lazy without thought it would come easy. And then the end of two thousand nineteen didn't end railway. Pry one of the only things i really one was the permit finals. And then the star twenty twenty. It was just real hard and it just seemed like i. I wasn't working at it. Like i used to because i thought it would come easy and then it went terrible for me. I went out last summer ahead. Absolutely terrible. I mean i think i. I turned a handful of stairs for money all summer. Small handful and i really didn't catch a break until we got to greeley. We won the round finals at greeley. And i think one thing. I've told myself after moved back down here. I remember coming home from the summer. And a me ryan had kind of talked a little bit and then come home from the summer after winning the ram files and stuff and our member moving back dinner and i told myself. I'm like look if you're going to do this. You need to do it because the way you were doing it. That's just the way it's always gonna be. There's guys out here that are way less talented and have had less opportunities less really good people in their life. That are doing better because they're working so much harder and i don't mean that an arrogant way i mean that's just something i had to tell myself you know and so then when i moved back down here i told myself you need to. You need to do you need. You need to work as hard as you think you can at it so it was just kind of a mindset thing i did i did lots of things just for my own mindset. I would make myself wake up every morning at six to six thirty somewhere around there. Get my horses fed everything. Because i told myself i. You need to be ready to go rope at whatever really good guy calls you that day and won t to come head for them. You need to be ready to go rope at their house. Whatever time that call you whether it's a or lunch. Luckily man paul or tie. I just had always went and headed for paul. I mean Koby live far enough away. They didn't really get to practice that much together. So i would always go ahead for paul and i think that i don't i get kind of a bunch of crap from all the other buddies co you and paul you go you know. Lovers drew bromance bub-bubba. I'll a lot of success to him. Because i think that me up there and open every day and watching how hard he worked at it. You know it made me work at it hard because that it's true the people you're around is what makes you who you are and i honestly think that just every bit of every every little ladder every little rung on the ladder. I've been climbing. Since then i think because i've just been working at it so hard with him and next thing you know. I ended up getting rope with doug. And i've known doug my whole life he's from illinois. I'm from missouri. I mean we grew up probably three hour each other and a roundabout way. We grew up around each other. And so but. I don't think i would have got doug. If he hadn't seen how much i've been working at it and try and paul was helping me round horses up and helping me get my horses that i had better and stuff like that and so i think what's honestly changed to walk back to your original question what's changed now. Between whenever people i saw me was was when i was younger at had. Kinda come easy to me. Because i was in high school and for for where i was in at my age it was coming easy to our winning and i thought that was all ahead to do and then when you get out of high school and you can get pitched out with the wolves you find out where you really are you know and saw think i had to dig down deep and find out what i really wanted to be in order to do good. You know what i mean. Yeah i mean there's so much to that too like first of all. How do you know paul. When did you guys first. Okay so. Paul is from london dale missouri. Which is outskirts of saint. Louis probably tune half hour straight north of my parents in poplar bluff and paul bought one of his very first roping horses for my dad when i was a toddler They've got a funny story about me walking under that horse and diapers whenever they come to look at them and they decided to buy. And when i walked right under he didn't kick me and then paul would kind of by some horses from my dad and i thank and like two thousand eight. Maybe paul moved on here. I would have only been seven years old when he moved down here and i always knew who he was. He knew my dad and when he would come home from missouri for reopen. whatever. I'd get to see him. He always remembered me. You know and i was fortunate. My dad knew my mom and dad both knew that i needed to be down here at a young age to get better to get around the good guys and i was kinda coming down here and reopen with some other buddies and stuff and paul polito say hey come to the house and head for me you know come i always need headers house and ed for me and just kind of one thing led to another when i was sixteen years old. I would come to paul's on head form a little bit and we always we kinda got closer and closer. And i just kind up being his practice partner. She'd say right so with paul. What's the first thing you notice about. His day to day work ethic. What does that guy do that around other guys in this area. What does he do that is so different than everyone else. I'm gonna say he kinda like he wakes up with the purpose. There's never a day where he wakes up just getting through the day he knows what he's gonna do when he wakes up He wakes up probably every morning pretty early. We've talked about. I think he wakes up at like five thirty and that guy knows exactly what horses. He's gonna ride that day and he knows what he's what he's gonna do on that horse and he knows what he's going to do it and the rope and you know paul spins the money to have somebody come. Video are runs and that may sound a little over dramatic but at the end of the day. You'll catch paula over there looking at his phone and he'll be watching the runs. We made that day and he can pick out the littlest things because he's such a perfectionist about all alike every aspect of his rope and whether it's his horses his ride and whatever and i think it's pretty cool you don't ever really see him blame too much of what he's doing on his horse usually his if he's got a finished horse that's doing something wrong. He's the kind guy that says well. I should have wrote him better at there. Wouldn't have done that. This net and i think that has kinda help me because there's a lot of times as headers say different than healers are horse. might duck. Well did we crawl out over them and make him duck. I mean did we show it to them that we were gonna throw you know. And i think they're just little things that being one small detail that i've picked up off him of you know no one kind of being a perfectionist. I guess you'd say right. How important is it to will for me. Paul's talking about this. I think you're picking up on it too as well. The it's in your control so like heading at a rodeo. Everything happens so fast so like like you might miss one in. It's like you've missed it like what they don't realize is you've missed from the time you nodded your head and you have missed the steer. Its most time and maybe a second right. I mean or less than that. Or i mean that's a pretty good reference area depending on the setup or whatever it is but most time it might even be faster. That missed him. So there's a lot of little variables that you our. I think the stair step laughter ducked his head and and instead of being all that steers step left or right like off how to read my horse and a little bit more to the. If i would have said it better. I would got it. If that's your doctor's head. I just need to get my robe down. Catch that one or whatever it is and you start going to that mindset right. Is that that. That's something like you've been able to pick up on your right and it's not necessarily beating yourself up. You know blaming yourself for everything. It's more or less figuring out what she could have done different to do better. you know. a guy doesn't need to get his confidence down especially in the heat of the summer Confidence is everything as far as your open goes But also you gotta know win. It's okay to say. Well gosh it us which is hard to get by or man. He was hard to get by. But the better. Guys cody snow. Caleb triggers they would've caught that steer you know a nat swear. That's the little things that i probably used to wouldn't have picked up on before. I kinda got attitude that i have now towards my rope and i used to have been thus dear was on cash flow. Don't really matter anyway. It's you know we weren't winning their audio anyways. Well yeah one way. It's an excuse you've got an excuse. Exactly i never way You cannot be right. You cannot be harder confidence right because this this one of the most important things you've got is if you believe in yourself it it it'll take you really far but if you believe that you can make the adjustments and you're gonna get the next one that will do that or if you if you feel like you need to go home then you that's a home that you need to work on that the practice pin till you figured out then you could keep adding to your game without necessarily taking away from your confidence. So you're you're building on your open and you get that like that mentality of no excuse right. It's just learning how to lose as learning how to lose lose the rodeo but learn a lesson from yup losing the correct way losing build on your game as opposed to to go on the other way which for you. Let's start back. Because i think i was just saying this today. I think the hardest thing that someone can have is success early especially in the rope industry because success early means they expect things to happen for them exactly and then they don't know what to do when they get their asked. That was me. I honestly think it was. Because like i said i was a senior in high school. I getting old enough to go to the pro rodeos and a part of me kinda wakes up in the morning and says you know if you want that to happen again. You're gonna have to get you're going to have to get back to the top. I felt like i was a senior in high school. I was supposed to be at the top. I was the oldest of all of the kids. I was waking up. So that's our the oldest of all kids. I was reopened against so waking up every morning. Tell myself the only way to get to the top of the guys. You're up against now as to wake up and do things are not right yet. And and that. That's the thing. Is you know if the work ethic it. It's klay tron said it I don't remember the video shooter. Podcasts when you get to really high level the improvements are very subtle so as you're building on your game you're really not. There's not going to be an aha moment. It's going to be a consistent. Work added with with a purpose right. If you're working at a real hard whatever you need or your horse needs over enough days which it. It's usually not one or two. It's closer to probably thirty to ninety. At least yeah of like real consistent work at this one thing like if you're wanting to improve on a specific shot within your head in whether it's running close whether it's a one close out on the gain that shop for months then you can be like it's perfected or it might even take longer. It just depends your horses in your skill level. Whatever it is but that that's one of those things. It's just being consistent every single day and and being around guys like paul you kinda learn how to grind right. And that's that's essentially what what it is right. I think that you're exactly right. I think that as far as headers go. It's it's probably easy to get from four to six now you talk from six to. Nf are header. That's when it gets hard like you said like the the more experienced the more advanced in europe and you get the harder it is to get improved you know. Yeah well. I mean if you think about it like this if you're a if you wrote my A number four if you practice a few times a week and then we put you on a rank head horse. You're going to be a sixth fast if you're just practicing a couple times we're saying you're gonna run ten steve. You've got to practice sources on one real good horse. I think in ninety days you're going to be a six or seven. You not maybe not a seven headed. 'cause you've got to reach but six header pretty quickly pretty quickly. Your horse can do so much for you. But then you're gonna hit certain tiers like one thing that's really hard about road and this is what this is what i've watched with you a lot and i've been this is why i'm the most excited about it. Like i said before. I love to do these podcasts. And i want to do with guys that maybe not. Everyone knows about but they're starting to figure it out right and one of those guys because the shots that you could make you. You've got a lot of offense right. You've got a lot of different shots but when to use them rat in understanding like hey how do you know how to get through ropunds or how to be at a rodeo in what shots to take because there's going to be easy money and there's gonna be days where you've just got to be maximum it out the whole time to win something and you kinda a no to to use both right. Oh yeah i mean. That's one thing you see in almost everybody's articles podcasts. Whatever everybody talks about no-one window when to catch and went to go fast. And i think that that's part of when you really become an open header is known. Hey were at the bef today. It's all about using your horse. Set up the run. Just go complete the course in a as sharp as you can and you'll be all right. Then there's days rigo to elect the three s open or even like the how the wendy rocket ryan was other day inside or the lone star shootout or places. Like that where it's like. Okay you're going to have to be a sharp as you can on the barrier. You need to get ahead of your horse and look for the shot as soon as you can. And that's whenever you gotta start doing you know sticking your neck out a little bit and doing as much as you possibly can and i. I think no matter where you're at you can only do what you know you're capable of doing in no matter how much you gotta stick your neck out. You still have to make the best run you can against your steer and you. You have to do what you which you know you're capable of doing if you know you're not capable of reaching three calls. Oh no times. I sure when you less than a six flat will you know at least a six flats time on the board and so i think that's another thing is just making sure that whatever you're doing is you know. Set up for the rope in you. Know if you don't need to try to be five five at the lone star shootout union under five five but make sure you're capable of doing whatever it is. You're doing what. And i always go to this. I i love the lee quote about. Don't fear the man that's Drawn ten thousand punches. But the one punch ten thousand times and i looked at that with my roping as like okay. I wanna run. I wanna run that. I know that can win. But it feels like my horses. Stay working and then. I want to do that. Ten thousand times. That's and then build out from there. You know if. I gotta be more aggressive or more conservative i can. Do you know you can add to those and then try to get your ten thousand shots at those other ones kind of build it out. But that's you're right in the middle of this as a header. Because you will you your permit year he horses you got a few. You've got some very good had horses riot. you've had good success. You know your first year on a permit like winning. Thirty thousand on permits is retarded like very very few times. That ever happened right so a lot of things are going your way but what you start to learn as you your rodeo. In last summer there's a lot of different setups and then less summer was it was hard as very hard. Yeah an incident to understand that too. Because there's there's a lot of times you make runs. It would win a lot more money than they did last summer. But there's so many teams and and and the rodeos had like big feeling environments. The added money was so small. You might make a great run and it gets paid fifteen hundred dollars. Sometimes they get that that this summer will get paid forty five hundred dollars exactly so. What was the hardest thing about this rookie year of rodeo and for you i think it kind of goes back to what you just said on the having your run. I think that's one thing. I've got now better than i did. Then whenever times get hard. I didn't have something to fall back on. I didn't have my go-to run like you said 'cause i do. I do agree with what she said. As far as you know what you can do and you know how you can get a little faster here. A little faster there. I didn't have something to just go back on. Like i never made. Sure scored good. I do something silly out in arena for. I made sure that. I caught the horns break. The barrier relate. I just i didn't have a hadn't been working at it enough to to still have my sharp go to run. I just kind of the lack of I guess you'd say the lack of work ethic had had and go from the sprang going into the summer. I've kind of lost my my my run. I keep going back to that. But that's all you can really say is. Everybody has their own run. You know and so. I lost the only guy i know. That doesn't have his own runs destined but nobody can compare themselves him because he can tho from wherever you will. He has a rum. And it's a ridiculous really. When asked what his run is because he can crank it off the box and then still turn a lot of stairs like i mean he. He's one of the very few headers that can swing before the the shoots open and just cut it loose On long scores like. that's not. That's not normal. It's not even is nothing we've seen. I mean i know triggers. It's guys they can do amazing things and they can do that but he's doing it like that's that's something he that's his perfection. Yeah he just he goes to like. It's comfortable for him and that's it's crazy. It's too hard to even compare your compare like what you're doing or you're opened his. Because i mean it's just it's almost unrealistic for most people the way he can sit there dead still and be swinging his rope and then turn loose of his reins his horse to get off the corner of the box and and his right hand at the same time. How many times have we seen him throw way before. He crosses the mouth of box. You know what i mean. I mean we've got a lot of videos here recently with rope ones that we've been shot and like the wendy ryan this year. It was rained out for the outdoor in. It's pretty similar when it's outside to the bef i it's kinda got that big wide open arena like the spicer group or something rack where there's not a lot of real fast rounds like. There's probably not any fives in the first round. And this time it's They moved it to the covered pan right behind it and it's a pretty small arena. Think a deep box but it was one of those things where tyler wait. I think he had told me they were. Maybe two one or two four one or two fives and then or two sixes and with wesley thorpe. One-sixth his five steer but read. Like i think he had two fives one. Four and two sixes in one. Six and dusted did some work and the whole short round. It was all like that eight every guy. Just continue to go adam and it was amazing watching into one thing that i've noticed here is how you at the codeine. S mus memorial reopen with you. Buddy what were you guys on five. I thank on five. We were twenty five. One twenty five ten i think Twenty five ten no on four twenty five and then we went six. Oh eight in the short okay so like thirty one thirty two on on five. I think our time on five. I think was thirty. One nineteen. I looked at three thirty one. Nineteen and what did you guys win. Third or fourth fifth fifth. Yes okay so for everyone. Didn't watch these robbins memorial weekend. There's some great rokhlin's greg causes. It was it was a it was probably the funnest open rope in that. I have ever watched and i think i could be a little bit off with this but like let's say they paid six eight money's in three of these opens right. The danny dese monitor it was intertwined so it might have paid a few less. It might have paid like five four four four holes advantage with sixty teams and then the rest were like three to four times. And so there's a there's more teams in those in the paid up a little bit more money. But i don't think in the callback if you're in the money if you came back in a money callback position of those three rubens. I think one team maybe two mysterious at all of them. Like i think one of the windy ryan one at the dandies and and one at the at the coach naismith and I mean that's amazing to think about how tough like you if you did not come in in the money. Position at these open romans. Three guys got money at three opens. I i think that was really close. And it's i mean what it means guys like dustin but they got to run. That's real fast. And these guys are making it every single time and and as a steers get better and better they. Maximum out more and more. It's not they don't lay off at all. Well that's like a bunch of us guys. Those talk about you have to be prepared to make your best run in the short run now mean you go through the whole rope kind of pressing on it and then you get to their short on. That's when it's time to. I mean you've got to treat it like a one header. Douglas and the windy ryan. We went five on our first one. Six on our second one six on our third one and five on our fourth one and we came back thirteenth callback pan seven monies. We didn't have a chance. We added it up after they're open was all said and done we. We could've went like four flat and still not wanna check. I don't think that just shows you how tough the opener opens are getting now. It's it's crazy to think that if you got we were twenty four on four and didn't have a chance for money and the chance for a short time. That's it yet. it's the wild thing about it is. It's exactly right. It's a rodeo run at the end like at the end as soon as this lineup of guys there when they're all there and their inner multiple times. The last run is ready around. So let's talk about this building on your run. What is your favorite run to go to like. Let's say gun to your head. you've get a pick one. Run that you gotta make over. A barrier will go just like a traditional open start. What's your favorite shot that you go with. I'm gonna say lack right now. Really been with all jackpots. That have been going on in my opinion to you. Kind of build off of off of a consistency. You you get. You just need to get in the habit of catching and turn a lot of stairs. Obviously in a timely fashion for at the level we're at but in a timely fashion being sharpie build off consistency. How fast or slow you want to go but like right now when i start off open my first run at every rope and try to get as close as i can to the barrier without getting too close is that if that makes sense i know it sounds a little silly but usually to be some kind of point. Oh five to six off the barrier and try to really riding a horse across their stay down brim and drive in about about coil back and turning at the last couple setups Besides the windy. Or maybe but like the cody naismith and the three s open. I thought those setups or pretty similar. You know a couple of those. The danny dietz is fairly similar. My my run right now. i'm trying to do in. The first round is anywhere from about a five eight. Two six five probably long to mid six is what i try to make. My first couple runs the day off. And then like you said there's times where you can see from a ways back that the open that the rope and is going to slow down. It's going to get easy. There's too many guys falling out so then you can just okay. I've got it going my way. Now i'm eleven onto now it's time to just make kinda run inside of a coil and say okay. I'm half a call back down for sure gonna catch us when or then you can say okay. I've been doing good. i needed. Keep built about this time. Maybe when you're coil and a half out swing farther back rope coming in to where you can kind of speed it up you know. And so. That's i'm going to say my run right now my go-to when i first start the day off at one of these bigger opens that are going on now at china go for anywhere from some kind of long five short six and obviously the steers whatever steer you have is going to kind of fault on that. There's sometimes you draw the low and you gotta use them so you may go short vibe or you may draw the runner. You don't want to start the day off with a miss so you just keep staying down nyden and may go long six to short seven but will i think too so cool about that run. Is you talking about your horse. Moving forward so if horses moving forward at these open pots you can go the one coil. And it's really hard for them horses to like lose run or duck or take that shot away so you've got that in their horses run we might have a coil and a half or further shot. But you've got enough run out of your horse as the rope and progresses and he's moving forward enough for you that those shots really stuck to open up and you can keep doing it all day and then it's the same thing you might get a lober and you're able to run in a little bit closer and you don't your horses and just read off of that steer where if you let kinda pull up and get a little float so you can pull off a to shot. You've if you're looking for that one. I think it fits perfect in the open and i think that's one of the shots at all. These guys they really have down. It's really like it's a solid staple in a lot of the shots and then what it does is it allows them horses to to work throughout the whole day than they can make it ten to fifteen times in a row if needed and if they need to go faster their horses moving forward enough that the then. That's usually what happens is getting a little better getting caught towards end guys. Just kinda keep opening up and like like we talked about your handful of guys that for sure place seems like every time your best headers. You can't though dustin in the mix obviously he places a lot of time but you never really know what he's into. He just talented enough. He can do it every feels like but so saether your triggers. Your cody snows your klay. Smith's in the mix you watch them. They do kind of what i said they. Every time they nail the barrier and they drive across the line they get out in the middle of the arena. They go coil back. Turn them. They set them up. Good the rope and obviously with a really good healer and they go some kinda mid long five every time and that's why we said them guys at all the jackpot's there's about three or four headers that place. Every time and dustin clay smith cody snowed triggers. Those guys out there that same place. Every time y- there's like four or five headers and four or five healers right now that and they're kind of entering like two or three times the second third partners but they like their take they're gonna between those guys they're winning a few. They're all together there. But any makes sense because i mean these guys are great and the the run together as great and mixing it up. It's just like i mean it's pretty impressive to going back to this this rookie year pro rodeo on you know it was a rough year mentally. What was the hardest thing about that. What did you learn the most about having. I mean the first time you really lost a bunch right. What was the hardest part about that. I don't. i don't even know how to exactly. I think it was more of a letdown to myself. More of the thought of just kind of at first gone out. There come in last year was expectations of the nfl. Right expectations exactly. It was my expectations. Were let down more than anything. It was the bottom of why what's different now than it was. Then and velma thing i could find was that i just wasn't working at it hard enough i was. I was roping against hours of boy reopening inside the man but the biggest difference. The i'm still the boy of against men on twenty but the biggest difference between now versus then was i was a boy rope against men had the work ethic boy and not the work ethic of a man whereas i think now i have the work ethic of a man you know and being able to apply that you've got so the harder you work at something and the more you've done it and you've seen do it even if it's in the practice pin there doesn't have to be money up. I don't think the more you do something the more you're like okay. It's just harder for you to lose confidence in what you're doing because you can correct me if i'm wrong but i think rodeo in the hardest aspect we have is when it starts going you want to change. No one wants to keep losing and they take the last year to the next year. And it really. It can't happen like that. If you make a mistake you can't be worried about the mistake that you made in fix it. You can't fix last year's run on the next year right now. You have your process of what you need to do that day of winning on that steer and that's all you can do and if you know what you've got is good enough then that's all you have to worry about right. You're right and like what you said on the process. It is all a process and so you have to find in the last steer that you messed up. If you're in you know cody if you find what step in your process you messed up right there. When you're driving to bellevue. She need to watch your video. You need to see what she did to mess up. You need to all that and the next day you need to back in the box and say okay you had a cop way too far over to the left or whatever it be and fix it like you said. Don't carry the bad mo jo over. Fix what you messed up and just do it. Don't change you. Don't change your run. Just fixed what you messed up. Every- everybody's process different but fix your own process. Go back to your run like we're talking about about your own. Go back to your run on that steer and and just do it. Don't try to force it. I think that was another thing i did. All last summer was the more we went and the more i did bad. I tried to change everything. I would try to change the scored or the way i was swinging or you know this that i changed ropes. Cabraha hat socks boots. I tried to change everything you could possibly change. Don't work like that. Everybody's got their own style. Everybody's got their own way of doing stuff. That's just what makes us who we are and how we wrote and so you need to find it what it is in your process that you messed up on the last one and fix it mentally disa- next day just say okay. I'm not gonna be caught too far to the left. Or i'm not gonna you know anticipate the start that i should've seen i'm gonna make sure i see it or whatever you know. You're the the process This is awesome to hear. Because i i love it because for me i i have how i know how my swing works. I know how my horse works. And i know what shots i can make and when i miss i can address it really quickly. At least that's my goal is to address it really quickly and know that mistake happened and i say it just like that. That's the mistake. This is what i'm doing on the next one in a lot of it is heading for me. It's a lot of how alec line my body in the box right right and and then after that. It's really hard to make adjustments. If you're trying to change your swing rodeo do you. do you know how great that. Let's that don't do that. I mean you can do it. But it's going to be a wall set in the podcast i did with him is going to be a hard life. They're trying to change your. You're trying to change too much. That's why you need to one of the biggest things is a time like right. Now you're two or three weeks away from leaving. You need to find your own. You need to go to all the little rodeos you can all those circuit rodeos charters need to find your on. You need to get it down. They need to find out what works for you and what set ups and that's what you need to stick with when you back in the box and you say okay. This is my run. This is what i do and if you if you changed it a little bit and that's what caused you to miss. Then you know like you said you can like how you were talking about your head and you said you can address. Why and how you missed right in. And that's good. That means you know what your deal that means. You know what you run. And i think that's what is important is known what year run as what your processes and what you messed up in your run to miss that steer. Don't beat yourself up over it. Don't burst your confidence. Don't carry that bad mojo to the next year. Just go back to your process on the next one. Yeah you don't you don't tie missing or even funeral you don't even tie it to yourself work to you law like you rope like that now you don't it's it's literally is black and white as you can make it like i. I made the shot. I missed the shot. This is what i need to do to make the shot. And then the other thing. I think that that that's probably the hardest thing For younger guys. Or maybe maybe anyone. That's getting exposed to radio. His as it goes bad you know the the tweaking on it like were sane but they we get further and further away from like what we do and who. You actually are as a team roper. What you're comfortable with. And i think there's other things you got to be able to address it like if your guy can't reach very well on your own where you need to know. I'm not gonna learn how to reach when. I don't get to practice while i'm rodeo and i'm not it's not i'm not magically going to figure out how to crank went off in the box as unaudited cut it loose halfway through the blocks from three close you're going to need to learn how to take risks and other area right right and i think that's what makes guys like. They make them kind of gave me like winters guys. You don't think should win but you get out there like it's weird in texas because you'll be out here roping a lot and there's some guys that that made the finals a lot and they don't win a lot jackpot right. What is going on. And then you get out there in the middle of the summer and they have got a lot one and they know the little things like how to read the barrier better how to play setups how to use their horse so their their guys can heal fast and i think they picked gamy game. You know and and i think that's a lot of that comes from experience and a lot of that comes from you know knowing yourself right. You just know what you're capable of and then know what you need to do to win right. i think it. That's why they say once you've made it once it seems like it's easier to make it after that because like you said experience it's knowing what it knowing what it takes to make it and so that's what's hard as a young kid coming up but i think you just gotta listen to the guys that are trying to help you and tell you what it does take thank you. That's what you just gotta find find like you said. Find yourself find your find your your run. Find your worth. And then don't don't beat yourself up going down the road overstep. Don't don't make yourself think that that's you know. Have you been able to figure this out so like why do you think that is not doing good. I ll honestly say on a lot of people. This twenty twenty was the best for me. Mows my rookie year. I got i one third in the rookie standings by two of my friends that rope outstanding. I mean they should have placed where they did. I mean those those kids brit. And tanner both had been my. They've been some of my friends for a long time. We grew up. We're all kind of about the same age brit as maybe a couple months younger than me and tanners year older than both of us. And so we've all grown up basically around each other we've all been heading at the junior opens and chani in high school finals and stuff our whole lives. They wrote great and so for for made to watch them. Just kinda way past me up last year and stuff it was. I was just like man then. Kids are them. Kids are doing something. You're not you need to figure it out. And it wasn't just them it. Was everybody else too. But it was the fact that not only did not make the finals. I didn't even. I wasn't even in the race for the rookie standings. Either you know. And i'm not taking anything away from them. They both wrote outstanding. It's almost just me driving myself like you weren't even in the hunt. Tanner and brit went neck and neck. And you were way behind them. You know ray were. They were having a race to the very end of the season. And you weren't threatening them none so that was kinda that was killing me in. The back of my mind was to think that. I didn't even come close to making the finals and i really didn't even come close to winning the rookie so it humbled me and it made me dig down deep and figure out if i really wanted to do this and when i when i told myself i did i tried to figure out all the aspects of what we're going to make me fully prepared for twenty twenty one you know it's amazing what losing can do. It's it's so important. I think losing is. It's it's the best thing you can do and losing early is a blessing because what it i think what it does if you lose early in life and you stay with it you know. That's what you're meant to do and you'll fight and you'll think about it harder it'll hurt more and you've got a lot more the struggle eating your forty to just get so strong and that's where it's like for you. It's been fun to watch because were successful to too early. And and and then getting the the year like you've had last year and and to see what it does because i mean i'll watch you. Jackpot knows mistakes. You would make that they were. They were young guy. Mistakes would miss tears or break a barrier. Something would happen when it didn't need happen. And in a year's time a ton of that has been corrected aiming to a point where it's it's crazy it's not even the same guy and that aspect of losing in being able to self violent like hey i got my butt kicked but i still wanna do it right and then once you got that it really makes it. It makes it to. Where will you can talk about. You know if people are when something happens to them. they they're afraid to even address it it's gonna linger but once you can address losing and not being where you wanna be then you you. It's out in the open. You've kind of you're in the process of fixing those things and and you've kind of building that and i think that's like you look at paul. Paul was not polly's was not that successful early in his career. And this guy now is an animal and he has a stack of horses and he can train them and he is like. There's a few guys. That i watch. Hill steers intimate. It is picture perfect. I him jay. pike. Who i'm gonna leave latin names out but those guys they make it looks. They're they're really getting close to perfection and and that getting down. That path of that early is very important. And into kinda see you get down that. That's it's really fun. I'm in has it been a header that you look up to the most with their shots and try to build your heading around. Yes and no i find myself trying to be too much like one person or the next person like you said you know you kinda get to. Oh we'll dust and win and everywhere so you need to crank one-off in the box will. I'm not capable of that but then you get to see in guys that can run 'em farther out arena. But they do a little different stuff. I'm not gonna say that. I try to be more like one person to the other but i do like getting help. I liked to in the middle of are open to right up to a guy. Like cody snow and say. Hey look what do you think. I could have done right there. What what is my horse or chad. I love talking to chad. Sometimes you gotta tell. Chad like hey. Don't be nice to me. Tell me what you think. Stop being a nice guy on the back til mid did a good job. I just split the horn right there. You know steptoe me. I'm doing great. I'm not but i like to ride up to guys like that triggers to take you serious. I like to ask him for help to you. Know a lot of times. You can't take serious enough. But i i like to ask a lot of the best guys what they think. Even when i'm doing good i don't. I'm not ashamed of. Walk up to somebody after i after i did good and say hey what did that look like. What could get better you know because chances are they saw something right there were. I went five five where they thought i could win four nine and so that i not to say necessarily try to head like anybody i just try to get advice from all the good guys and put it all into one and make that myself down towards little details right exactly because there's going to be so so many times where will you might make run. That wins really good but it was like teetering out of control and it might be something as small as like. Hey if you bring the steer back a little bit more your guy is going to have a little easier time healing and you might get two or three tenths of back and really drew a steer. That was so great and you scored so good that you're able to still went on him but those little details might get you the three or four tents that you need the rest of the summer or the next few ron's and that's how you build on it exactly Do you ever struggle with getting advice or looking at what someone's doing and then when you're not capable of doing it or you know that it's gonna. It's basically when i say not capable. I'm mike let's say you needed to be cutting rub loose here and you weren't and it's something you're not real comfortable with so you know that you need to will. You probably need to practice at a lot. How do you try to balance those things like that getting advisor. You know for someone. That's a try this. Will you try it you know you probably need to try to home. When you're not gonna lose money. I think that's one thing you just have to learn a little bit with the experiences knowing when the appropriate time is to try something when it's not like as far as i think in a lot of that goes with your horses to one. That's appropriate time to try. Say score on a horse little different ever. When your money's up you need to do it you know and then when you get home call. Cody are chad or triggers are dust and are clay smith and say hey. What was that. You were told me at the rope and the other day i needed to do you know you said something about. You thought that. I needed to be to the front a little more so that i can cut it loose. My second swaying. How how would you go about that or hey you thought. My horse wasn't scorn. Good because i was doing this. Can i come to your house and work on it. You know. I just a lot of that. You learn one. Their appropriate time is not now. There's sometimes like hey that roping roping tomorrow the steers leave their sharp. You're going to have to get to the front better than you did today. Then you know. That's that's okay tomorrow. I need to work on what they told me. And it's just kind of knowing when to balance it out yet. You know the thing. I've been playing around with will. I'll heal a little bit but not really like tough row go. He'll in a thirteen or fourteen and just catches. And so what. I've what i've been doing and i'd and i'll do it heading to notices but it would we talk about losing like if we're done in the roman but we're still in the rope in like we got a barrier or most of time like a leg from he'll and you know if it's not going well and i know i'm not gonna win anything. I might take something that. I have been trying a little bit of practice pin and i'll try it in those runs and then i'm like i can take those little things and i'm like oh that did feel and i got competition feel instead of my practice. I do the same thing with my head. Horses i if i wanted to tweak on a path that i'm sending my head horse down or a how how scoring or what kind of shots. I don't like the idea of my horses ducking out or not running. But i do like tweaking with malice. Score hiram out of the box how my swing comes up like how soon it comes up. And i'll do that on runs that don't matter like us. You're still roping in the open. But you know you're not gonna win anything and then you can get that information you do that. I couldn't agree with you more at dakota niece smith. I had a couple of penalties with a couple of different guys hand. I've told myself make runs work on yourself right here. You know the the most realistic results. You can get a rope. And that's why. I think it's so crucial to go to the littler rodeos and the littler little austin robertson weeknight deals and stuff because the best results you get at the open and i'd do the exact same thing just other the cody niece myth. It would have been real easy just to kind of be. I guess you'd say like messing around almost screwing off a little bit news not paying attention. Just kind roping because you still have to. They're still calling your name but you're out of the open but instead i'd say okay i need to figure out exactly what the start is in the second arena. Because i've still got two runs left. That are good guys so you need to figure out right here syngenta barrier on the first one. You need to work on herself right here to try the barrier on figure out exactly what it is get to the front of your saddle work on your swing or work on at this spot or whatever and i did that a lot at ropunds especially like these ones. I've been having you're to have four runs that the inter one draw one. Go twice deals ear. You're liable to have four runs. So if i have a penalty with somebody. I most definitely do that. I work on myself or my horse. Or whatever and i try to really get it down to where my that carries over to the next run. When i'm starting fresh with somebody like the coating smith of the day. You may run your you run your second one with one guy before you run your first one with the next guy so i would go run my second with somebody work on myself. Try to figure out exactly what the star was and then come back in the with my next guy start fresh. Have a good run then when you get to the second arena you know exactly what the start is and stuff like that yeah. It's funny that this report is so it's so odd like what it takes to win and managing money and putting it all together. But there's all these little things you can do. Like i mean even as a header right. If you know you've got multiple rounds in a big tough rope and i it doesn't matter what number does if there's a lot of teams you're not going to be able to make mistakes and win and so if you do make a mistake early having backup head horse. It might be a young horse. It's been working pretty good. And then just go get on him and make him make a normal run like you would. If you're good in the average and you go make make that run even though it does. No good result lies with you do that. Five ten twenty times in a row on this horse and he works perfect while you're doing is a in your horses value so if you want to sell them you can make some money and you get real information. You should probably video if wanna sell this horse and then you also will no like. Hey this is what this horses capable of. This is what he does instead of like going at teaching him to dock to not score and you get to learn how to manage a horse and you get a make a horse into a winner where you can build a run around a horse. There's no pressure like if he didn't good on the one before you can go corrected on the next one and you can just go work on your horse and and there's all these little ways as a roper that you can you could basically add value to what you're doing even though the situation isn't great and that's where like losing can be a win you know and and i think that's one of the biggest mistakes i see i su- i saw just the other day. I see guys kind of the same new. You're talking about maybe two legs or something and it's a it's a five head rope and they've got two really good runs average in their one guy's got maybe two legs or two barriers or something and they start bombing off on their one. Good horse just trying to. You're not gonna rope yourself back in the rope and like we just talked about from from first to eighth place at the coney smith open was a second and a half difference in time on five. You're not gonna rope yourself back in the rope so why not work on your horse a little bit. Why not make him get him in the box. Exactly how you want. Get him to score. You know maybe even drag one across his but one time getting fire and up their row can stand up making do exactly how you want instead of rather than almost just kinda messing around come the third around you have to penalties. It don't really matter. You're trying to get one off the box and go before. You're not gonna rope yourself back in their open anyways so manager horse. You know that's one thing. I see a little bit of an really man. Like why are you doing that. Yeah managing your horse and that is one of the most important things as a header. 'cause it's just like that. That reopened was tough and a second and a half difference on five steers on fresh like really good steers but are fresh strong and it required you to. You're it was everything you had. I mean if you watch that short round the steers were so they were good but they were strong and you needed everything you could get an and i think that that's what's so important about roping towards the end of the reopen these head horses have given you a lot but the special ones they keep scoring at the end especially ones keep running at the end and if you're fighting them that way you know if you're making a duck and then you come back that that's my favorite is watching a head horst dock after god been going out and then they get mad and you're like well what did you think they're gonna figure out what you do. Oh yeah i mean in. Any of us are guilty of it. I'm just as guilty. Getting on a practice horse on kind of practice in my going. Adam and i go three or four zero on the fifth when he ducks out from under me and i split the horns and i kinda spank him back over. The steering negative interim like really. I mean. he is really supposed to do that. You know they're they're kind of a creature of pattern. You're kind of pattern known to go to swings out the box term left. You should have expected him to do that. You know they're gonna do what you show rat and in the smart ones are going to do it quicker and the the dumber ones are gonna be numb to it. I mean that's a bad word dumb but what is going to be numb to it. Yeah and and that anything. That's what you finding horses that are special. They need a little bit of both with their like. Stay within a pattern. But i think that that goes back to your foundation and your training and your rioting and what you know about your horse and all the practice hours you need to know what you got. And that's where i once again like as my head horses get better and better i throw them in the mix and i like to know how my horses gonna work in the fire before i actually put him into it with. I know the expectations of winning are up out. You're exactly right. i. I'm i'm a big believer on going to all the little jackpots. And stuff for that reason. You know you like you said you can take a newborn. She got that you haven't really gotten to get with yet or a young one that you're just kind of bringing into like the realistic stuff. You can kind of go to that stuff if you don't win it's not a huge deal. Obviously no one likes to lose three hundred over here at one hundred fifty go twice deals that brock but that's better than just pitching them to the wolves at the three s reopen where your fees are five hundred mango twice losing thousand versus three hundred. I'm a big believer in going to that kind of stuff because you can you know make sure you get all right pattern and do exactly how you want them to do at their opens. Yeah in you get to learn the valuable information like what is my horse like. Run to run. They'll get the practice opinion. That man this sucker's good and you're ready but then it might be like you know when it gets quick in that roper. You get exposed to something like you might have a couple runners and then you might come back on a low power and you'll never know where you're going to be at with that horse as far as how he's gonna react when that steer does not leave shoots very fast and he's a little bit out of air because it's a thirty teamer and he's maybe ran a few stairs and you've got to score a little extra and you get those details and you know what your horse will do in competition and i and i think that's one of the keys to learning how to win your training yourself to be a winner horse to be a winner because you get that exposure against the guys to on a on a tuesday night and you can take that over. It's no different really than than a huge open that experience. I mean like. I was in early two to me. Competition is the best way to i. Guess you'd say to figure out where you're at in your rope and and what you've been working. That's where you get your test results. You know practice in everyday those your like your quizzes your homework when you get somewhere. That's your test. That's that's where he figure out where you're actually at and it doesn't matter if it's small or big three figure out what you've been working on with yourself and the horses and i. I think that's the best way to to go about things especially to the winner. We're very fortunate. We live right here and around stephenville between stephenville to weatherford area every week that here in the winter you can go to at least one jackpot every week and it doesn't sometimes they're really good ones. Sometimes you can go to two or three little ones. But i think you gotta stay. Go into that kind of stuff to figure out where you're at and to figure to took to know what you have to do to change in bigger competition. You know if you go to the rope at brock and you're late on the barrier and you're just not turning them fast enough then you know what you have to work on before. Real money's on the line. You know getting getting that information's so important. What about scoring these horses. I have notices about you. I've here lately. I just noticed it at lone star a sitting there and you had a steal. I think it was a lonestar Little bit bad. The box in your hands real still. And i could just see it. And i was like this. Guy's been working on his horsemanship in the box. Right here i have I think that you can get your horses too. Confused to do in too much in the box of my kind of my routine is i. Like to have more horses look pretty straight obviously. There's some horses that wanna look a little left little riot. Whatever it's kinda they have to do. What's comfortable. I do some horses. I like to battle them up a little bit. The box just to get their weight kind of drone down on their front feet. Whether or not head up above there but to other i move there. They're going to be up and out or they're going to kind of squat and lean against the box. And then go and i think when anything like that starting to go wrong if the steers banging around and stuff's not good the best thing you can do to stay relax because the more relaxed your horses in there the better they're gonna score and all around stuff like that just all stuff you start to pick up on the more you work at europa at home to go into the little jackpots of the big jackpots. It's just all kinds of stuff that you pick up on and you start to do better the more you figure out what it takes. Watch those really good guys. Watch the guys that are dang. Sure hands on horse thing crawling all around waller and all around their horses whenever the won't stand right they sit there dead still. They wait until everything's good and usually their horses relaxed enough that the minute everything's good. They can go the the big thing. I i notice twos in and i'm working on it i i'm week sometimes but also like i know my horses enough that i can kinda like. I know it's okay but the ability to have your horse following your hand in the box and knowing where you horse has to sit to follow your hand if i literally. That's how i look at heading in the box. I'ma if this sucker wants to turn his head to the right the left or straight. I don't really care wherever he is sitting. And i released my hand and get that nice downhill running. They do not listened to the click of the gates because those world series barriers are so tough because it happened so fast. It's your horse. Wants to score off the shoot or they're just do not wanna listen to your hand after a while. So it's like that's a big issue for an open guy if you've got a horse wants to scoff gates or the he'll horse they or with a running they you know. They've run a lot of stairs. Lose breath and i you know getting back to where they'll sit and be comfortable and then follow my hand in wherever my when my hand releases they're there and and that's what i've noticed about. Jesus you know you're you're able to sit. Your horses will score. You know we will release well off your hand. And it's like the the when i first wrote as you pretty aggressive. You know very good with your belt and now you're getting to the parliament. His horses look great. You know they score goodies hitting the barrier. How he needs they hit the barrier. Has that been a big focus over the last six eight months. Well you hear a lot of guys talk about it too. There's way too many guys out there. That are crazy. Talented without i can pick out a lot of people in the surrey. A lot of kids my age. That are way more talented than me with wrote that that haven't that. Nobody knows but my point being is way too many people that are talented with a rope. A certain guys that make it to the top guys that can ride and rope. You know and so that's one thing. You have to pay attention to all the small details. And i think i think that's just something i needed to get better. I needed to work out. Perfect a little better was making sure i was getting same. Go out of my horses. Every time getting keeping them honest keeping them scorn. Because like i said there's a lot of guys that rope really good that probably just don't make it very horses or their horsemanship isn't good enough right. And even to the one variable a header can get biologists. Say there's a good seven header up against Clay smith and clay smith's on his best horse if that header scores perfect on every stare and they're running the exact same stares he can compete. Yes if he blows the barrier out perfectly five times in a row and your normal seven header which i would say is like a a really good circuit ron or amateur level headed very good very good amateur header very good circuit round. He can compete with the best guy. You know one of the best guys in the world right. And i think that's one of the things as a header is the aspect of how well we can read the barrier knowing when to take risks knowing how our horses gonna react and score and to be able to do it long term because robbins. You are a lot of stairs. Horses attitude changes their mentality changes. Rodeos you don't really get to you can get a rattle will cost you an extra fifty those roads as you know what i mean. And there's all these times where we gotta be able to read it. And if you've got a medium steer for the heard in you blow the barrier out hanging on me that far out there most the idea right. That's what people talk about reno region reaching reaching will you said it and i i honestly have to tell myself lot if you ride your horse. Good than you score good and you ride across the line that steer. If if you're in a mean cody boxes. Probably seventeen foot barriers. Usually you know it's a foot over in the peercy that really means the steer is only going to be sixteen feet from you when you hit the line. Because they add the to foot. The net grope is only sixteen foot long and a one over barrier. The boxes seventeen foot so he's only his neck is only sixteen foot from you if you nailed a barrier. That's half your rope. You don't have to tell your whole rope if you ride your half your ropes. So that's something i tell myself is look. You don't have to worry about getting one off in the box and knowing your whole wrote the score. Good and ride your horse. And he's gonna be half year rope from when you hit the line and that that's not counting if your horses gate and you take one more. Swing alibaba's he on the b twelve foot from you and that's every everyday shot for most of us will you'd think your head horse could outrun that steer. So if you're at the line and you have your way you probably get one more swing up and get a lot closer to get a sure shot. Let's mean and yeah it's it's such a. It's such a unique aspect to to be able to score and rag your horse and then then you know it as you peace horses together. What ones can play two years shots and and what you're doing and just kind of what makes a winner right. What about the mental game. This is you know we always get the mental game questions and it's it's one of this. It's as big can of worms and there's a lot of aspects to it and you get guys at like to dive into deep and really analytical about how the mind works and there's other guys that are like they they just kinda can turn it on and they just like tastes. Stay out of their way. What you try to mentally to create consistent performances through your mind. I think there's a lot of things i try to do. I'm farm believer in the statement. Practice like you've never won compete like you've never lost. I think you need to kind of carry yourself with confidence. Don't be arrogant cocky. But you need to believe you're there you need to believe that you're supposed to be there and so that's one thing. I always tell myself when. I back in the boxes. You're one of them here at one of the guys. You don't have to prove nothing to nobody but just rope like you're supposed to be here and i think that Knowing in the back your mind you've prepared yourself to be there. You know knowing that you everything you've done and everything you've been working on is just waiting for success. Basically you know you're preparing yourself to do good. And i think that a guy can get to over carried away with the mental game of it. You get to get in your mind and almost changing who you are going back to what you were saying in the middle of the summer breaking your own confidence and stuff Basically just if you honestly deep down in your heart believed you've done everything you could do to to succeed then. You shouldn't have no problem telling yourself back box. Hey you've prepared you're ready just go. Do you know you. Focus on your rug on. Yeah that that's a big question. I think everyone should ask themselves. Is if what you do is good enough to win. And if you believe that then you should trust it and you should trust it to the point where you've put If you wanna if you wanna rodeo or whatever it is composed is if you number opens. I think if you believe that you put the work in and you're at the top you should put your name down the whole time and and the results will let you know but it has to be over a long period of time. The results will like what. I say. That if rodion for example seventy five rodeos is what you get your chances on and that might not mean that you make the nf are that might not mean that you do whatever because the results are going to be a little bit different for everyone but if you believe what you've got is good enough and what you've practices good enough it'll show through right and you'll turn the stairs or you'll you'll do you'll take the right shots and winning his. We don't have control of what we're gonna wait or win. We're going to win it and you might make the runs at the wrong time and a lot of times guys end up within a couple of years making the finals or they're a couple steers of the reason. They got to the finals. And it happens to be in the rodeos. Pay seventy five hundred. And there's all these variables but if you can realistically look at it at the end of the day and it's really really good thing because i think if you can do that all year long you're good to go right mentally you like. It doesn't matter you can miss a few in a row or you. You can have some bad luck and you just stay with it. I think you've got to dig down in your set. Dig down in your heart and kind of find yourself and ask yourself. Have i done enough. Have i worked as hard as i could. Work have done everything i know to do. And then go spend a day with a guy like triggers or snow or somebody and look at their work ethic. And if you're like holy crap they're working harder than me then you know you're not doing enough. You know that. I would say i would say ninety nine percent of the people that like all. I wrote good enough. He's he he make he would make. Oh i don't have to. I don't i can practice a couple of times a week. I hear that. I hear that from more than the few people i man. I don't have to practice that much. Stay sharp well. I talked to one. Hundred hundred cook told me one time. He said he doesn't feel confident. Lessee heels at least forty steers a day. I mean that's how that's how he knows he's prepared and their certain people like that. I'm one of those guys. If i'd take two days off. When i come back i can tell my rope and when i if i take two days off for some reason and i come back to practice i can feel it in my horses. My rope everything. And that's what's crazy. Is you have to be prepared. You have to know that you're working hard enough to to to make you have to be doing what the top guys are doing or more. You know your your mental game. Can it's weird because you guys they can pull it out. Sometimes they can do some stuff and they can really really lock it in. And i try to be that. I've tried so hard to be that and be ready. Lock it in. When when does up i want the ball. I'm kind of that guy. I want pressure. But i also want it because i i kind of like that idea of. I'd like to fail or win. But i wanna know the one of the other. I want the test right. That's what i want. I want to be tested. And and i think that Getting to that point is that was kind of a fun spot for me. Because then i knew i get moments where i did bad and i get moments. Why do good and and it helps me stay fired up every day or whatever when i wanna grow right but mentally the training being able to trust your training and your process and like we said early in this podcast knowing what you do and then you've addressed it to the point where you know that that is your game and then you're going to go test it and you'll get your results and you'll get your tested. You'll know whether you get. Get it. And i like you said a second ago for most people that say they work hard enough or most guys that Have the talent or whatever it is and the in. they believe. they're ready they. They should just come down to polly's house if they're human or cody. Snow or hunter cook. I i mean we live right up to eighty one and not a podcast with tyler. Wurley and every time i drive down. He's four five miles from me. The lights are on his arena. Only every time ago but he's he gets a lot of homes but you know man that's that's what's so crazy is known special and the one thing about competition is no one special and talent is great. It's it's one of those things that you just can't you just can't do anything about when talent is just really sharp. But that's only one day and talent can only take you so far only do so much and that and that's what's scary like. I said to be in talented. Young is the work ethic. Doesn't come behind it because you don't have to work. Hard is easy for you. You know you can. It's almost like you can see something and then do it right and then you can. You can kind of be like you get that shot and you can do that and you can see those things will what happens when that's not who you are and when i say who you on your shots it means i can watch someone. Swing ahead wrote that way and then go do it on the dummy right. A lot of us can imitate different headers rat and then you might be able to do that shot at times but when we got dogs in this house just real professional podcast around here but when you do these things and it gets hard and you get those moments where you you get tried then. You're not that guy. You haven't done it enough. You don't trust it right and that's when it's like the work ethic has to be there you have to have this foundation of what your run is because gun to your head like that's that's what i love to say to myself my gun to my head. What am i doing. Highest pressure run. I can put myself in. What am i going to do. And that's where. I really liked to to go to these things. But i think that's where we we really miss it with a mental game as well. We'll ask that's what's so important in a conversation is a you can say things that were we mess up like man or not mess up. But it's like is my perspective at the time or at the moment. And sometimes i'm just i'm wrong you know but but also i think that mindset of learning and trying to grow and and i think that's really what i'm trying to to get with this because i think who i am as a as a person. Obviously i like ropy. I like everything about it. I like business but also what it takes to be great right and what i keep finding is these guys chase it so hard. There's certain things and there's a. I believe there's a roadmap to being successful and and to me the roadmap is you've got to work at something as hard as you can and know yourself and then watch people who have done it before and learn from him and learn how to work at the smartest way possible. I think the biggest mistake we make. Is we get real comfortable. And when i say comfortable content almost content with where you're at he added content. Content is dangerous because as soon as you're like he don't have that desire that drive to get out there. It gets hard you know because this is like you twenty years old. You ain't got no house payments you have your houses at the shelf right now and and you wanna run steers and you. If you're getting up at six thirty in the morning you beat me up. This morning. right. I slept in. I was tired from yesterday. And if you if you're doing that day in and day out and fifty other guys are doing the same thing that are heading steers. You know how how you're going to get to the top you know so you've got to look for these little hats on your way in right and i think it's all a mindset I listen to john baxter. Speak of the day at at american. Hanson neal neil coach. John backstreet coaches at a. I think it's as it university of south california. La maybe ucla at usc. i don. He's coached at michigan state much but he come and talk to us at the american hats photo shoot and he kind of said a lot of things that made sense it. It's all a mindset. Lena laziness doesn't get anybody anywhere even if you don't have anything to do if you're if you're not supposed to go rope at somebody's house on a tuesday till lunch. That doesn't give you an excuse to sleep till tin. You may not have anything to do. You may get up. You'll feed your horses at six or six thirty and then not really have much to do but the thought of it is is you. Got your feet up. You've got your feet on the ground and you started moving and that's kind of my mindset to it as if i'm not afraid to get up get moving and and be something kind of be busy doing busy doing something then it kind of gives me the mindset of me not being lazy. Laziness dragged down. You know it leads to will habits right habits and the like we were talking earlier with clay said. It's improvements are very subtle and so it's like the the more you can do the little things and the little things. I mean our. Get up early when you're tired. Stop procrastinating if you're but when i say stop procrastinating. There's everyone can listen to this podcast. You might say motivates the heck out of someone and he gets out there and he works at it real hard tomorrow and he wrote the dummy till his hands are bleeding and and does this thing right the next day when he's tired is he doing it right. And and those are the little ones. Those are the improvements. I think i i try to those moments. I don't want to do something and address it. And i either figure out a. Why do i not want to do it. And then if the answer is because it's not what i want to do like i don't like doing this thing. I tried to acknowledged that enough times. Okay like video editing. right. I've edited out. We'll has over fifteen hundred videos. It's thousands of hours of footage. I hate video. Editing and i have edited out over thousand of myself. I don't want to do it anymore. I've reached the point in my life where it is a grind for me to knock out a couple of videos. It's the same thing with roping. I keep going back to would. I want to do with my life. Like what is what what fires me up like. What would be. What is the most important things at the end of my life. That i did when i was young and healthy and those things. That's where like okay. I wanna get to those things but there's the days where you don't wanna do those little things right hired in whatever. Excuse you god. It's been raining it's cold. It don't matter but those ones when i work out and i don't wanna work out and i get those in a rope and i don't wanna wrote a satellite but i ride them all day when i don't want to. Those are the ones that make you strong coach. John baxter said something in that deal. He said a lot of times. When i'm recruiting. He said. I don't always look for the most talented guy he said. I look for the guy. That's working so hard that he's about to pass out. I said because that's the guy will give his sweat blood and everything that matters when it counts the most and so that kind of spoke to me. It's not about how much talent you have necessarily is about how hard you can work at it because the the another saying that's true is hard work beats talent. When talent doesn't work hard you have to get up and you have to work hard. It doesn't matter if you're a horseshoe or a welder. A team roper teacher. Whatever you have to you have to work at it and you have to get to be there. E you can be running steers not be working at it. You can be roping and it meaning. It almost be doing good. I tell people that a lot. Just because you're roping doesn't mean you're working at us because you have five horses saturday year round and some tears. That don't mean nothing unless you're working at unless you're working at little pinpoints of everything you want to be working on. You're not doing yourself any good the understanding of how to how to work at those little details. It'd be it becomes an art right. And i think that's what we're saying a while ago getting better at this skill and building it because it is a skill talent means you can pick up things in it naturally comes to you but really there's there's a recipe and it is through a ton of reps in. It is through a ton of work in. it's through a ton of consistency. And i have gotten to the point now. I look at things. I'm like all right. I want to get there. How long's it gonna take a look at an always. I want it now. I want. I i could be there. I can be healthy. I could be strong in a couple of aunts. If i just lift weights. I can rope. i can cut. I can do this. Shot in a month or two. If i if i just work at it but if i look at it in i asked this question to myself like if i work at really hard for a whole year i should have it right and i keep thinking okay. I'll do a year of this one thing. Then i'll have it and and most of the time it happens fast but i try to look i tried to get into the mindset of oklahoma and do this thing for a year and i think if we can get those points like. That's what the great guys do. That's what the cody snows. And they're they are lifers. These guys are like anyone graded anything. That's what they do. They dedicated everything they got to. I mean you you have to be all in. I don't know somebody. I don't remember what it what one of them pro guys. A while back had a article in team roping journal one of them. And it was about. If you're gonna do it you have got to be all in. I think it was tight. Kurkin schlager right. You have to be all in and it's true. I mean you can't be a while. I want rope a little. And i wanna do this little. I'm wondering that little. But i still want to make the finals. No no no all you know out of one hundred ninety six guys at reno and so basically you just rounded up to a hundred that you're taking the top fifteen percent out of those guys that top fifteen percent of guys in the world in two thousand twenty. Not one of them have any other hobbies other than reopen. And i can promise you. They might be a family man this not. Obviously i mean this part of it's part of life but there. Their time is devoted to reopen. These guys might be inside at night for watching routes They're thanking off this horse tomorrow. I'm going to do this you know. They've got they've got this. I could be used in the wrong word at this point but engulfed in the process of what they're doing that they are like the results are just gonna be a product of it right like they re steers and that's what they do. They ride horses. They every aspect of it they liked developing those out and and when they get to that point then nothing but results can happen but the thing is they're giving up their life they are exchanging everything they right. You've you are exchanging the best years of your life. You're exactly right for that thing a and and that's when people that is so weird i i don't know you get a lot of people that take the the nine to five job and do things like that and they really and they say they're happy they like what they're doing. They're raising their family and doing this. And i think that's great great. It's awesome but i could never do it now that i would 'cause i can't. I can always do that in my mind. Maybe i could. I could always go that route but you kind of want wanna know like hey can. I cannot not do this. I see a lot of you know. I'm from missouri Where a lot of the the thing to do to get their most kids. I want to ask with my two. Very best friends didn't go to college. They went to they went into a trade one of them build substations on the road. The other ones his brother. He is a big electrical inputs central systems. They both have boats. Four wheelers have a nine to five job. Have fun whatever. I go home and i think gosh that would be so fun just to work and you know. Drive a boat on the river all summer and dry fuller's and hunt and all that then i think. But if you're gonna do that there's going to be no time for rope and i live and you're going to have to have one or two horses and you're going to have to rope when you can be very content being a little bit a couple amateur rodeos in the summer. They're going to the slides on the weekends. And that's where you're going to be. You can't have both and so i think that's what them guys mean when they say you have to be all in. There's no you have to. this is your job. This is how you make your money. Selling some horses roping win. That's how you make your money and so you a guy has to dig down deep and decide. Do i wanna be a working man that ropes. A little bit for fun have some success. Maybe not or do. I want to devote my life to reopen in in. That's what's so. It's so hard about the sport and it's like is this really beautiful but it's a crazy thing because the people that can do it. There's not a ton of money in the sport now. There's a huge sacrifice right. And so the the. The rite of passage to get to that level is huge. And that's why. I have so much respect for guys that can do it and continue to do it because that is what their purpose in life is that is what is in their heart to do and they followed it and they figured out the ways to make it work. The expenses are extrordinary and the the results are not always guaranteed. You're not you know. There's obviously there's no salary and being a rope opposite. Not and that's what i think is really unique but i also think that taking advantage of it in the time of like the prime years of your life. If that's what she thinks you might wanna do. I say pursue it and that's where the losing is really really important. It's the most important thing. I cannot stress enough right. because if you're there rodion and in its july how let's say you get done at spanish fork and it's a hundred and five degrees and you're just sweating and you've drove a lot of miles and you're fixing to drive another eight or ten hour drive. You got an and you haven't won anything and you've been losing and you can get your butt kicked and you still like it. You're still like gritty about wanting to get through this. That's win you know. Hey this is what. I'm supposed to be doing exactly and and the other thing i think what you're gonna find is whether you are successful or not or you retire from roping after five ten twenty years or whatever like you accomplish that goal when you move onto the next thing you know how mentally tough you are exactly and you've got this to build on that i mean i'll just be real honest like roping has competitors right right. Oh yeah. we're really hard company to beat out. Because i've wrote if they were rodeo and avi scared of. But they're not they're not routing they don't know what it's like to to be able to ask your Yourself questions why have doing this and the only answer is like it really like what of doing that. I i love what i'm doing when you run the numbers and you just you physically mentally like it's draining. That's when it there's no logical answer your frigging crazy right right and i think that's what's so cool about this. You can get out of it. That's what i get out of it. Is you build this fortitude and and you can continue to build it and then on top of it as you like. Get experience at right now right. You're you're able to climb the ladder. Get these these wins. Placing the cody naismith rubbing. How good feel right. Oh yeah it's one of the best feelings in the world knocking heads with the best guys in the world and coming out with money and testing yourself in the fire. Do you try to test it and test yourself outside of competition like practice in other things. Do you try to get competitive in other ways i do. I'm pretty competitive person. And i try to push myself like i haven't been doing as much as i should lately but i i've gotten tried to make myself getting the habit of the planet fitness and and at run or do something spe- active. It's only gonna make me better as a person Or my physical fitness. You know it's only gonna make my physical fitness better. But there's some things i can do with it. You know when i get on that. Treadmill and iran's of say a mile and a half. I tried to run two miles. When i get to that mile and a half and i'm only running i have it said it. Probably seven and a half miles an hour. I'm at a slow job. I say okay. You've read them a mile and a half already. Push yourself right here. Be somebody and i'll turn it up to nine or ten and make myself full on sprint. The last half mile after already jogging a mile and a half. But i think that's how i keep my mind working. keep my mind my mental. it's all it's all mental. It's all a mindset. I think that's how pardo hockey but goings it just little stuff like that. Make pushing myself. That's back to how making yourself get up or it's a mindset of pushing yourself to get up early. That's a good feeling whenever all your chores are done you look at your phone. And it's only about seven thirty in your. I got all day to do whatever i want. Stalls or cleaned. Horses are fed. Tales are washed out. Fly sheets are on whatever it may be. You know so. I think there's a lot of things a guy can do in his daily routine to push itself that makes him better in all aspects even in your rope and you don't know you're at the time but like i can see it in certain stuff you know yet in it just builds it built and and that's the thing is your phone might ring one of those mornings and it might be a guy that needs a run and or it might be a professional healer that you know that you would locked jackpot with he needs in your ready and you never know when the calls coming so you're just always on on go for that man. I appreciate you coming out here and get on the podcast with me. I know i know we It's kinda always entertaining to see what's going on at my house. Do these things but now thanks again.

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