3 Episode results for "Hank Stewart"
Weekly Wrap: Coronavirus and the Markets; 'Love Is Blind' is Final Boss Reality TV
"Hey this is anti Baddie this week on this show host of the podcast. This is uncomfortable remote place and marketplace reporter Marianne Sagarra all right from NPR. I'm Sam Sanders. It's been a minute happy to my guess. It's rare that we have to panelists from the same newsroom yet so this is like officially now a marketplace takeover yes about celebrity both marketplace voice as. We did a Cairo voice. This is marketplace. Well okay sure. I don't feel ready to do that. Okay but I. I try to not have a marketplace voice. You know. I'm just trying to yourself marketplace voice. Let's do the numbers the number here anyways. Marielle glad you both are here. Rima I was just on your podcast. This is uncomfortable. It's all about The emotional side of money. Yeah it's really about how money impacts people's lives and relationships that choices they make. It's a storytelling podcast. It's a lot of fun. We're in our second season right now. Love love and Marielle you cover something that affects us all consumer psychology. Yeah in retail. So I think a lot about the buying decisions that we make the stuff we buy kind of what it says about who we are and what matters to. Us I love it. I love it but we'll talk more about that as it relates to corona virus in just a bit before we get to that kind of Downer News. I want to talk about the story that made me the happiest this week. Oh salaries second digital. See the one about Lomas ex now so little Nasdaq's who we all love right. We had probably the biggest of last year. If not all time thinking old town road road sounds like now. But anyways this week this video surfaced of a little Nasdaq's going to Disneyworld in Orlando and crashing. Someone's wedding research did see that. We have to wait for it. Crashing in a good way. Yes yes so. They're about to walk into their reception. And as a bride comes to walk in Old Town road fires up little X. Comes out and they'll all white suit grabs her hand and they dance into the reception. Tony sees it coming and everyone's like it seems like such a chill wedding like ten people. It looks like an intimate family. But my questions were you both. What celebrity would y'all want to crash your wedding reception hourglass okay? I want him to give a talk about public radio. Wow that's hard like it's so funny my cliches beyond saying so you can say beyond say she would upstage everyone else. Lesser to your star. I want I want. Yeah let me think one of the lesser members of invoke. Okay just big enough to notice upstage and they all can sing right right anyways. Enough of the happy stuff. We have to get to the biggest story of the week. Which is Corona Virus The news is moving so fast With this virus but as of right now at this taping Friday morning we know that there are more than thirty four hundred cases in forty four countries outside of China Italy has had a spike in cases by more than fifty percent in twenty four hours this week. Japan is keeping kids out of elementary junior and high schools until after spring break ins in April and this week the US had its first case of Corona virus that was idea as quote community spread which means that they really can't figure out what happened with how it got there. Yeah a lot is moving with this story but both of you have been focusing on this week in that spirit. We're going to have you both share your three words for the story of this week. Corona Virus Marielle. You GO I. I'M GONNA go with possible Black Swan. I really want to explain that for so. A Black Swan is an event often economic event That was to come out of left field. It's rare it's surprising. It's also something that can have catastrophic effects so maybe on the economy or just on the world and then oftentimes like people try to say later that it was predictable But it's not that it's not really and so people said this about the housing crisis. Wait for the most part. Nobody really saw that coming. It's said about like a lot of natural disasters and things like that and analysts have talked about corona virus as that so have politicians The phrase sounds so ominous yeah I think it basically comes from for a long time Scientists didn't believe that there was such a thing as a black swan on so like it was like no such thing exists and then it came out of nowhere when they finally found one so black swan basically meeting. This could get really bad and no one knows how bad it could get. Yeah okay okay. So then. In that regard you cover the markets and consumers. We're GONNA talk about how does this is touching real people in their lives. But it's also touching the economy viruses talk about what's going on there. We've seen the markets freefall almost this week but what else is happening. Yeah so there. The markets but then there's also the broader economic impact So I've been keeping a running list of retailers and consumer products companies that have said in their earnings calls that the think that their sales will drop significantly this year because of corona virus or that. They're closing hundreds of locations in China to start and they're all names. You would know. Seh Like McDonald's. Starbucks APPLE UNIQLO A lot of retailers. So that has an impact on their sales. Obviously and then also we've seen estimates for economic growth have been cut and it can sound sort of besides the point or even insoles. You hear it and you say well that's less important and it's a corporation dying or living right now right but it doesn't matter right. It does yeah. Because when economic growth slows it can be harder to get a job. It can be harder to get a raise I mean your talking about people's livelihoods so it does matter to a lot of people also. There are a lot of issues now because many companies buy raw materials and products from China and because factories are shut down there. It's much harder for them to get those things and so you could see. Prices go up on various products in the US and also you could see shortages of things. People rely on even prescription drugs. We get a lot of our prescription drugs and ingredients for them from China particularly for Antibiotics and I think that it shows how intertwined our economies are that yeah that has been the big lesson for me this week and last week. Reema understanding that if the Chinese economy succeeds or fails it directly affects our economy. And we're past the point of acting like we're separate and apart. Oh Yeah for sure. This has huge global impact. China is behind so much of our global growth and it is the engine for it in so many ways yeah. I wonder though you know I've been seeing. The headlines. Have been seen the markets fluctuate. But I have not seen my consumption change and I don't know if a lot of Americans are doing things drastically different because of all this news. Safer China by masks. What have we seen as far as consumer reaction to this here? I don't think you've seen that yet. There is a a risk there when I was talking about prices going up. So because a lot of companies a lot of retailers and manufacturers by products and materials from China if they can't get them from there then they'll have to find them somewhere else and often. That'll be more expensive. It's also expensive to try to make that change. So that's more costs for them and then they decide whether a pass that cost onto you when you go by whatever it is at the supermarket or maybe it's like a pair of jeans or something like that And that's similar to what happens during a trade war. I mean that's what we've been seeing past year Companies have to make that decision when it's getting more expensive to buy from China like do we make consumers pay. Yeah well and it's the thing where we have seen Since he took office Donald Trump likes to associate his success with the markets and he brags about the markets being up and he says he did it right. So what does he do win? The markets following the this week. Yeah I mean you're right. It's sort of been like a barometer. He uses the stock market is sort of like a real time barometer for success as president. And you know. I think it's showing that maybe that's not the best thing to do because you know I think the trump administration right now is really nervous that they might have a botched response to this and that might end up hurting the stock market and that might be a bad reflection on trump while you know because that's a huge part of his pitch for his reelection example. Stock Market exactly. Yeah you're listening to it's been a minute from. Npr The show where we catch up on the week that was. I'm Sam Sanders. Here with two guests Reema Chris host of the marketplace podcast. This is uncomfortable a show. All about money's emotional side and Mary Garrett reporter for marketplace covering consumer psychology in retail remo. I want to talk more about the trump White House and how they're responding to corona virus. You have three words on that I do you have three words so my three words are Ladda mixed messages. Yeah Yeah So. It's been a big week a we've seen just all these conflicting messages from officials earlier this week we saw the CDC come out and say and this was like a pretty big shift right like the spread of Corona virus. It's not a matter of if it'll happen really. When and these were the scientific officials right. Trust us on this exactly. But after that what trump's then the next day he held a press briefing and his message was like pretty straightforward. He said we've got this under control. And so you have these conflicting messages and from the administration's perspective. You know trump has been really wanting to downplay this and not causing alarm And so you know. He's religious trying to assure folks that there were prepared when in reality kind of you know not yeah yeah so like for example reports this week from the CDC about They're having a hard time with testing. Kits in so testing has just been really limited right now. It hasn't been that widespread And so going back to the conflicting messages In sort of an attempt to create a unified voice. He appointed Yana who appointed as pence virus. Czar that's not the right phrase. Yeah Yeah but they appointed Mike Pence which like has drawn a lot of criticism because his history on yeah pandemics or on and it's spotty at best you know. He presided over an HIV outbreak in his home state of Indiana when he was governor because he was reluctant to oversee a needle exchange program. Yeah exactly so. People are a little sceptical and they just announced yesterday that all the messaging rule go through pence who can say what on TV basically. They want to have the same message all across. There's so much going on here with our response and our leaders are doing but there are also some bigger questions about you know what world leaders will do this year particularly regarding something like the Olympic passing. That's happening this summer in the summer. Where in Tokyo and there's rumors at least that it might not. Yeah there's been some concerns within the industry. I mean you know. Lots of sporting events have been cancelled right now all across Europe so naturally. It's something that they're thinking about. But you know someone from the The committee top official basically said the other day like we don't have any plans to cancel. So we'll see my question for you. Both y'all cover the markets shell cover business for marketplace in terms of like how to be a good consumer and all of this. What should we be doing besides living our lives as normal and washing our hands right right? Yeah I mean. I think that there's not much you can do for sure. Listen to and this isn't really by being consumer it's just about being person but listen to what the CDC's saying why's your hands. Don't put your hands on your mouth when you touch the DOORKNOB. Don't bite your nails. Yeah probably don't do that in general But also I think for people who are worried about their retirement accounts or their investment accounts. Check right now. Yeah it's like if you're investing for the longterm just leave it alone set it and forget it and also I don't know I think it's important to note that right now. It's still a low risk. Be careful say but like I don't know crazy levels of fear doesn't really help. We want to be alarmist. Yeah as we have just given up through me for the last fifteen minutes kind of what I want to hear on the radio and see on. Tv Right now and reading the paper. Is someone just saying this school? Not anyways we shall see All right we're going to break now when we come back. We're going to lighten the mood with little talk about reality show you might have heard of. It is called. Love is blind and it is a show all about strangers proposing to each other before they ever get to see what the other person looks like After the break we'll talk not just with one of contestants. We do that while. Stop with the TV critic about why we all love the show right now. Oh Yeah you're listening to it's been a minute from NPR. We'll be right back. This message comes from. Npr sponsored show. Bonnie owed May to taste just like milk. It's creamy frothy and great with coffee and cookies. But without the dairy because it's not milk it's almost milk new Shabani owed this message comes from. Npr sponsor. Discover did you know that discover matches all the cash back. You're on your credit card. At the end of your first year automatically with no limit to how much you can earn or how much they'll match plus discovers accepted at over ninety five percent of places in the US that take credit cards so when you use your discover card get used to hearing yes more often. Learn more at discover dot com slash. Yes Twenty Nineteen Nilson. Report limitations apply. Don't you feel better when you're prepared? Well with the spread of the corona virus. This is a good time to make a plan. I'm Alice knob wreak. Npr's life kid has a whole episode on what steps you can take to protect your family. Listen and subscribe to life guest Rebecca. You're listening to it's been a minute from NPR. I'm Sam Sanders and I'm GonNa take some time now to talk about this. New Reality Show a net flicks that I have been obsessed with. Maybe you've heard of it. It is called love is blind. I've met the person I want to spend the rest of my life. I've never seen her before you choose someone to marry. How nice to hear from you without ever seeing this show. It's a big hit. Netflix says a few times since its release. It has been the number one show on Netflix. In America like for several days on love is blind. Contestants cannot see each other. They meet from behind a wall. They have dates without seeing each other behind those walls and then they propose to each other only after that do this either fiance and start a new life together and live in the same apartment and planned bachelor and Bachelorette parties and then walked down the aisle or not all on cameras. You'd said Yes semi twice once behind a wall and once in person this is Mark Cuevas. He is one of the contestants who's trying to figure things out with his potential partner. Jessica but you said he was actually got the chance to talk with mark this week. So excited We spoke before the rest of the season of this show dropped on Thursday so listeners. If you've watched already there are no spoilers and never thought in my entire life beyond reality television or any kind of TV. Show at the fact like I never thought I would do that but I kept telling myself throughout the whole process like why not so. I asked Mark to tell me the biggest change in his life since his very popular series premiered getting used to sell fees on the people take wanting to take is pretty interesting. I was at my apartment. Jim and someone walked away. Hey can I get a selfie? And I'm like what what I loved about. Love is blind. Is that the drama and the fights on this reality show. They actually felt real like there's this moment when one of the contestants amber she tells her new fiance Barnett that she's got some financial problems haven't average credit score thank great. It's not bad and there's my student how much talk else twenty grandes that I have not been paying on on. You know. Mark agreed that this sort of realism is. What makes this show such a good watch? There is real love stories here. There's a lot of you know things that aren't as great. But that's the real life stories like if everything was just happy sunshine and roses. I don't think anybody would watch you know because it's not real and I think that they get the real authentic because we aren't active like everything I felt I felt it in the moment and I was just real. It'd be myself but mark also told me some of what you see on the show like Jessica and him living together. It's not entirely real home. Base for her was her home in her dog. I understood that she was always travelling a lot too so they got kind of taken out of context. I'm in here. And she does have her career that she has to do like the world didn't stop for like the show you know and so. I didn't really get to see her as much anyway. Besides that I wanted to ask mark ultimately if the premise of the show that love is blind that love can be blind does mark one of the contestants think that's true it can be. I think that we have so much internal dialog that we stop ourselves from like genuinely feeling a connection like a like me. Do they have this job or this? Hyper the this. But like it's like when we can take a second and actually like shut that voice off. Mb present in the moment and feel that other person for who they are in like it. You know obviously physical attraction shirts important but can you deeply connect with that person in like you feel them listening to you? That was Mark Cuevas. He is one of the contestants on the net flicks reality show. Love is blind in. Y'All we're not done talking about this show yet. I wanted to figure out why the show has tapped such a nerve right now so like all the book critic who has written a lot about reality. Tv Hello Hank. Hi How are you? I'm good how are you? It's been a minute? Has Hank Stewart TV critic at the Washington Post and asked him? I whether this show love is blind is actually any good. Love is blind is sort of the perfect blended smoothie of so many other reality shows and this experiment has been conducted before we've seen people date in the dark. We've actually seen true documentaries about how blind date people who actually cannot see We've seen shows where people get married at first sight. So you know it really mix all that together and desa very well. It's interesting how love is blind goes through the whole journey incorporating shows at once it has a show where people meet but dense each other Propose to each other without having seen each other than they actually see each other and that's again they go on their honeymoon right away. I think on a honeymoon. Why not and then they go live together. It's so much and they go home and they to see one another's apartments and houses and oh by the way I'm deeply in debt so I don't even really have anywhere to live. There were two moments in this show where I was like. Oh the candor in this discussion it feels just as candid as like real life. Discussions between partners talking about how to navigate having one black partner in one white partner meeting. The parents got felt so real conversation. That you alluded to earlier where one woman says to her fiance. Just so you know. I'm broke yeah credits crap. And I don't like to work. That felt so real right. It's very rare to see a discussion about money in a reality show. I say bring it on. I WANNA go big picture even further though a thing that I've noticed with love is blind the circle the mass singer It seems like we're in a moment where a lot of these reality shows that are succeeding. Have a premise. In which the big point is what you can't see me at first. What is up with us being really into watching shows about anonymity and performance while I do kind of have a grand universal theory about this if you want to hear it I of course think obfuscation. Masking pretending this is our whole world now and you can play it out in politics. You can play it out. In celebrityhood US certainly played out in social media with influencers. Everybody is presenting a disguise We have people in leadership positions who have very thin resumes who have been promoted beyond their abilities and are sort of wearing a mask Mitt. Romney confessed recently to having like a fake twitter account to troll people. Remember that what I about. The mass singer is that it's a very fun and friendly way to work out. What I think are some real anxieties about who's under there and they go through a lot of craziness on that show with a panel tries to guess it's all sort of celebrities who all kind of know each other and you can recognize each other but neither can the rest of us and there's just something. I think the astonishing quality of that. Reveal that you thought it was celebrity a we were all certain it was. Oh my gosh. It turns out to be celebrity. Be At the same time. I was dealing with watchmen. Which was all about masks? And this is the. Hbo Drama With the starring keen based on the graphic novel right about cops and domestic terrorists. All sort of using masks in different ways. Vigilantism there again. I see masking in a lot of things. What does the success of a show like love is blind and a show like the circle even on a platform like net flicks say about Netflix? And what they want and what they might be giving us more of going forward you know. Tv critics have for a long time. Struggled with what is Netflix. And what does Netflix want to be? And what does Netflix see as its identity Because that's how we dealt with networks for so long we know what an HBO show looks like. We know what an NBC show looks like versus a CBS show and Neth looks just sorta throws all the spaghetti against the wall. A net flicks is trying to replace television and the box office all at once so I was lucky enough to talk briefly with one of the contestants from love is blind earlier this Mark who like we like? Oh poor market. So he's a good soul. Yeah and I'm going to ask you the same question. I asked him after experiencing this show in his case. Living The show. You Angst over do you. In fact think love is blind. Well I definitely believe in the power of attraction and using all your senses using all your saleable senses however it truly is about the person so in that sense love is blind because I know from personal happy experience that we wind up with people that we never would have dreamed of. That's true I will say for me. Love needs to have her eyes checked every year. Thank you Hank Stewart. Oh my pleasure. Thanks again to mark Cuevas contestant on love is blind and hanks do TV critic for the Washington Post. If you're enjoying this conversation about this amazingly addictive show check out. Pop Culture. Happy Hour as well. I'm on that show. Talking about. Love is blind there all right back in the studio with my two panelists. Reema craze host of the marketplace podcast. This is uncomfortable a show all about money to motionless side and Mary also Garrett report for marketplace covering consumer psychology in retail. You've watched the show remember. No that only watching it because of you yes I feel so good about tweeting about it. I've made my whole team here on the show and so it was like I literally tweeted. I was GonNa Watch. Love is blind and that was like in reply to you love it. I love it. I live all the episodes and like days Gel. Ever go on a show like that man. No I'm like let me think. Would you one short? My favorite moment of all of it is when Jessica Aka mexica accurate feeds her dog wine reality TV cannon and it was just so casualty no pies like oh come on. This is for you. It's great merlot issues in the middle of a conversation. Oh Man I would. I'M GONNA why said show again this week tonight? Literally Plan Yes. I'm just GonNa Watch the I love it all right. It's time for a break when we come back. We're going to play a game not about love but about the news. It's called. Who said that Hobie right back support for NPR and the following message? Come from our sponsor target entrepreneur. Ray Phillips had a great idea and when he partnered with target supplier diversity lead my Alexander. He was able to grow his company with targets out. The idea came as I worked as a program director for Residential Treatment Facility for children There was a nine year old boy who refuse to be because he couldn't take his favorite stuffed animal with him in the Bath Tub. I grabbed another stuffed animal modified it to hold soap And Lord behold solve the problem. My son we have the hippo. Every time you take them back this was you know his his psychic that he took to the top with them. It made me feel even more comfortable with my recommendation. My support as well as the love that I had for the brand learn more about how target supports diverse entrepreneurs at target dot com slash founders. We love each of us. Is The star in the movie of our life. But how much of a role do we play in other people's movies really sort of palpable? Fear that they were going to reject me or worse the unseen pressures we place on other people this week on hidden brain from NPR. Hey listeners it's Sam If you're in La I haven't announcement for you if you near La. Have an announcement for you. We are having a special live show at NPR west in Culver City next month March We've lined up some public radio royalty for a special live show Friday morning March twenty seven. I'll be talking with. Npr's David Greene. I'll be talking with. Npr's Kelly mcevers and we'll have a special guest is well on the morning of Friday March. Twenty seventh for a live taping of our weekly wrap from impure west will start early and eight thirty. We'll have coffee and breakfast. Come Join US on experiment you can get tickets at. Npr PRESENTS DOT ORG NPR presents dot. Come out and are back. You're listening to it's been a minute from NPR. The show where we catch up on the week that was. I'm Sam Sanders. Your House joined by two guests. Marielle SAGARRA report for marketplace. She coverage consumer psychology in retail and Reema craze host of the marketplace podcast. This is uncomfortable about to be uncomfortable with this game. No because either way marketplace wins church. Right we're gonNA play right now. My favorite game. It is called. Who said that the game is quite simple? I share a quote from the week. Y'All got to guess who said it or get a keyword. Guess what I'm talking about. There are no buzzers and the winner gets nothing. Okay you ready. We're like there are no data claim. Just like a little bit. I know that was the problem. We were looking at your twitter. Feed give some indications of what no clues no hinge distance. Fun I quote reading. I had a big part of my career here in the eighties. So I really I love New York. I've had a fantastic time here. So yeah I like to give back really and I thought it was a fantastic way to give back. This is a musician who was famous in the eighties. Giving back to New York in a very interesting way for a second I was GonNa say Mike Bloomberg. I'M NOT GONNA lie across my mind musician. He thinks he's given back. I'm not sure everyone else to a musician. Who was big in the eighty s? Who Made News this week in New York City? Because he's doing a new campaign. Play the tape. Maybe that'll help him announcing them even more embarrassing. Don't clog lungs with your car fumes. Well Billy never idols. So why should you? Who is it? Is it Philly so okay this week? Billy idol became the face of an anti idling campaign in New York City. The catchphrases billy idol. Never idols in either on Mayor de Blasio said of this Idling JOKES ARE AIR. Hurts the environment and it's bad for New York. We're sending a loud message with a rebel yell. Turn off your engines or pay up. I feel like people idle their engines in New York a lot when they're making deliveries. Oh Yeah Yeah. See a lot of like double-parked tracks I will say I would love for the voice and face of Billy Idol. To be the first thing you see on the TV screen and every New York City. Taxi cab replays on and be Biden's billy talking honestly it's creative right what other celebrities should have. Psa Campaign Olivia Newton. John Wants you to get physical at school like her song. Madonna wants to vogue your way more arts education. No go go okay. Eighties eighties. The new kids on the block. Something with blocks right. There's near keeping city blocks clean with kids who got that point. Marianne Maryelle with a lot of video literally said Billy Idol. Here next quote they let us iphones in movies. But and this is very pivotal. If you're ever watching a mystery movie bad guys cannot have iphones on camera. Who said that. I don't even get it if the if you're watching a mystery movie bad guys can't have iphones on camera. This famous director who directed one of the biggest mystery films of last year. Said Apple will never let you put an iphone in the hands of a villain. Oh it's bad. Pr For them. Was the biggest mystery film of last year knives out. Yes okay so this is the point. Yes so Ryan Johnson Director of the film knives out which I saw twice in love. It's great talking Vanity Fair this week and he said yet. This is a dirty little secret of Hollywood Apple Iphone to look a certain way and movies and they don't want to be tied to the villains but the most interesting don't you think people were villains. I sometimes yeah yeah I do. So apparently Vanity Fair then reach out to apple and they said a rep for apple did not immediately respond to a request for comment which makes me think. Maybe it's true. Maybe it's true. How well now I want someone to make a horror movie or a thriller or whatever. The villain has an iphone as a major plot. Point like as if that would reflect bad. Everybody has an iphone. Yeah so do they all have androids or they have like flip phones all right last quote for all the marbles. The exercise Steph never took off as much as I wanted it to but we were working on his diet. We were making the ice cream less accessible. We were putting cauliflower into the mashed potatoes. Who said that? Are they talking about trump? They are who would say that the WHO would be in charge of food and exercise his wife go you. So close his personal trainer nutritionist. His doctor Yes that was former White House doctor Ronnie Jackson. He was talking to the New York Times this week. Because he's now running for Congress in Texas and a very conservative district. Very pro trump But in the piece about his run for Congress he talked about all the tricks he had to use when he was Donald. Trump's Dr Trump's weight was going up and people are worried about it and his levels weren't all the best so they tried to like sneak him into eating healthier food. I can imagine the scene. You're in the White House kitchen sneaking cauliflower into president trump's mashed potatoes. That's what you do for toddlers. Yeah it's something else will now. It's like does trump see this and if so what do now is he going to call Ronnie Jackson? It'd be like dude. I wouldn't admit to that if that were me if anyone ever put call my mashed potatoes everything's call now call pizza trader. Joe's less on those no let vegetable vegetables great again just Colorado being cauliflower. Yeah Yeah I think Marielle you really want half you wanNA make California potatoes. Y'All go ahead if I were really on my PS and QS. I would have had as your price winning cauliflower mashed potatoes where they don't want that was really dismal. Scratch congratulations congratulations. It's Okay Reema. No one's judging. You accept everyone listening all right now. It's time to end the show as we always do. Every week we ask our listeners to share with us the best things that have happened to them all week. We encourage folks to Brag and they do Gina. Hit the tape. Hi Sam this is allison from Missouri. Decided to commission a watercolor portrait of our Greyhound. Kenny for my husband. The best part of my week was giving him the portrait and then finding out that the artist wanted to include our dog in a set of note cards that she was printing. Our dog is a model today after getting my PhD and my fifties. I got tenure. Salmon's Alex best part of my week was launching new podcast Finally starting to write my own book nailed a job interview and got the job so I can. Now move to Santa Barbara to relocate to be closer to my partner. Hi Sam it's Pitt Squadron. From Adam and the best part of my week was playing injury due at Union. Elementary schools. Australia Day celebration. I Sam. This is Christina firm Corrales Oregon. And the best thing that happened to me. This week was getting on the bus at the Ski Lodge with my two year old daughter and the driver said welcome to the party. Bus in Holland was playing rich girl over the radio and he just turned it up and stop. This guy is twenty gets on and sits down next to start singing at the next. Stop sleep in her sixties gets on. She's singing right behind us and it felt like we were just straight out of a music video sandwich. Thinks fairly deal have a great week much? I love your show. Good Week look at I love. This is my favorite segment. I love it. I love happy for these People Hauling Party bus assigned me also. Can we can do that. We do at impure West. That would be fine. Thanks to the listeners. You heard there. Christina Pits Leslie Wellington Alex Pig Alison Congrats to your dog model. That's amazing listeners. Want to hear from you every week for this segment record yourself telling me the best part of your week email that voice file to me at Sam Sanders at NPR dot Org Sam Sanders at NPR. Dot Org thanks to my guests re McRae's host of the marketplace podcast. This is uncomfortable listeners. I'm on a very special episode of that show from this week. A reporter for marketplace covering consumer psychology in retail Thank you both for being here. Thank them yeah. Thanks for having us all right this week. It's been a minute was produced by Brian. Bachmann Unbelie Sassari Danny Hanzel engineer. West are feeless editor is kitty. Eisley are superhero intern huffed Fathi. Our DIRECTOR OF PROGRAMMING IS STEVE. Nelson are big bosses. Npr senior VP. Of programming. On your grandma special thanks this week to our engineer Steve mclintock's and a special shout out to my friend colleague. The creator of this show print. Bachman this is actually his last week on this show he's going to make other new shows for NPR. I've worked with for so many years. Politics podcast together. We launched this show together. And I'm not sure I've met a more competent germ listen all of my days. He's also a great dude cigarette. Guy Yeah Brent we. I'm so proud of what we made together and I look forward to next okay. That's it thanks for listening by Brent will love Ya Sanders toxin.
Will 'Leaving Neverland' make fans leave Michael Jackson?
"From the newsroom of the Washington Post. Are for into Washington Post hostesses? Lori are tiny over the phone. I I this is post reports I'm Kim real Kelly. It Friday March first. Today. How new documentary could redefine Michael Jackson legacy tensions along the India, Pakistan border and the wait for more. Told me if they ever found out what we were doing he, and I would go to jail for the rest of our lives leaving Neverland is four hour documentary from filmmaker Dan read, and it is a gripping fascinating and disturbing account from two men about what happened when they were boys and hanging out with Michael Jackson. Everybody wanted to meet Michael or be with Michael. And then he likes you post. Tv critic Hank Stewart says the new HBO documentary leaving Neverland may be powerful enough to rewrite the Michael Jackson legacy. The documentary airs this Sunday and focuses on Wade Robson. Now, dirty six end, James safe. Chuck now, forty one who say they were sexually abused by Jackson s children. I want to be able to speak the truth. As loud as I had to speak the lie for so long. It's very complicated for them because they really did have a relationship with Michael Jackson. It felt like a relationship. It felt like they had a special companion, and Michael and it involves sex, but the way Jackson's relationship started with Robson and save Chuck seemed harmless. Well, you have to go back to the nineteen eighties sometime between thriller and bad. James safe chat. He's forty one now. But in nineteen eighty six eighty seven he did a Pepsi commercial. Remember, Michael Jackson was the big spokesperson for Pepsi of new generation. And it was a commercial that a lot of people. Probably remember. Jackson. There's a little boy and he's in Michael Jackson's dressing room and his snooping around and suddenly behind catches it. Michael Jackson for me, and they become fast, friends and do a little dance and drink a little Pepsi that started friendship. Michael liked James. And James says he was not a big Michael Jackson fan. But the family was invited to concert James was invited up on stage. People recognize the Pepsi kid and from there, they started traveling with Michael Jackson, and before you know, it James and Michael Jackson. They're spending the night together in a Paris hotel room and his mother didn't like that. I did I and wouldn't let James stay in Michael's rooms. But they were also starstruck. And Michael seem so innocent. And they and they speak very well about how much fun. It was to be around Michael Jackson, and how safe they felt the days, we're filled with magical Sheild hood adventure experiences. And that's where the abuse started for James safe chucked and continued for many years, even though they don't really know each other and had never seen each other way. Robson who is was born in Australia won a dance. Contest. In nineteen eighty-seven stuff is the eight year old Brisbane dancer who is impressed everyone from Michael Jackson on down. Wade Robson and the prize was you've got to meet Michael Jackson. And he was he was just one of those little kids of the eighties. Idolized Michael Jackson and could do the moonwalk and could do the dances, and he got invited to the concert and Michael Jackson, and it changed his life. He started pursuing dance. And if you know anything about Wade Robson, you know, that he's well known choreographer he worked within sync and Britney Spears, and he has a really good career. That was helped a lot by Michael Jackson over the years as a choreographer. But Wade says he was abused by Michael Jackson starting at age seven at Neverland. For the following seven years. What do they allege happen? Once they became close to Michael Jackson, and obviously it's different for the to them. So let's start with Wade Wade says that he his first sexual encounter with Michael Jackson happened early on it happened at Neverland, and it happened in Michael sped Wade and his sister had been invited to stay and Michael's room at Neverland, which is a series of rooms the sisters in another room. Wade is in bed with Michael Jackson. Michael Jackson, fondles Wade and asks Wade to reciprocate basically and to answer your question about James, he was in a Paris hotel with Michael Jackson, and by then his mother had sort of relented and let him spend the night in Michael sweet. And it's the same story starts with fond Ling, it gradually becomes more intense. It's you know, if you want me to say, it, it's it's a lot of sex all of this is detailed in four hour documentary in very careful. Very unadorned. Learned but very detailed way. And it can be difficult to watch. I will tell people have been asking me since my review posted am I going to be able to watch this? And I think it is in the telling and in the carefulness with which these men tell their story and forthrightness and the honesty that you actually can take it. How are these alleged acts allowed to take place with in some cases, you know, the family living nearby and relocating were they not around where they just not being told were they not picking up on the signs or worthies families kind of groomed in some sort of way where they were made promises were they of didn't see this coming. I think the documentary makes pretty clear that there's this. This is a very special kind of grooming going on first of all it is high end it is first class plane tickets. It is hotels. It is shopping. So these families feel is that this very important very special person has. Come into their lives. And he's very innocent. Just kid things. They were just doing kid things. He just came across as a loving, caring kind sown. It was easy to believe that he was just that. And he just wants a friend, and we all sort of know, and we all sort of witness that Michael Jackson didn't get a childhood. And so that was always the story was that because he gave his childhood to us as a performer he was deprived of childhood. And that is why he enjoys the company of children he loves children when they talk about what happened. Now, how do they express this? This is why I asked people to watch the entire thing. Which is does take two nights and four hours the last half hour on Monday night, as it concludes is really all about this all about the fact that these two men have come out so late with this that you know, after years of official testimony and just general reassurance to everyone. They know that Michael Jackson, never abused them. Now, they're coming out with intense stories of abuse and very good memories of. And very credible very reliable. And so each of these men, their wives are in the documentary, their wives are very articulate about feelings and asking their husbands over the years did anything really ever happened. And wondering why they're depressed and wondering why bottled up and finally when it all comes out as Wade Robson says the the truth is is so much more of a relief than having to keep the lie. Even as bad as the fallout is. And so the families are obviously torn apart forgiveness. Tricky blame is tricky. The moms feel terrible. The moms are both interviewed at length. You know, it's fascinating to watch these families process. What happened? How do you reconcile that? With the fact that these are two people both Robson and safe Chuck who were witnesses or legally stood behind Jackson when he was tried for while station two thousand and five. That's exactly what the Jackson family is. Like, why are they recanting testimony? Why are they recanting what they've set up positions on the stand? And again, I think I think it's a perfectly reasonable answer. We weren't ready. And by the way, there was a lot of financial factors going on here. I mean, there were low interest loans from Michael Jackson to the safe check family to buy a house because they had done. So well defending Michael Jackson, you know, it's very complicated. And that's low interest lens when you mean, Stephanie safe check in this documentary who Stephanie she's James his mom tells us in the documentary that Michael Jackson gave she and her husband a low interest loan by a bigger house because not stated but implied and understood that because they were loyal to Michael Jackson. And because Jimi had not told anything the families still thinking, Michael Jackson is our friend. And he's giving as a way to afford a house and then Michael Jackson forgives the loan after Jimmy has once again. Been said I was never touched by Michael Jackson. I was never abused by Michael Jackson. You are not always the TV critic for the Washington Post you actually cover the trial when Jackson was acquitted. What do you remember almost a ghost? I remember taking notes one day because I was sitting behind him, and he would come every day with his parents. He was very frail porcelain appearance. And I just thought there's no there's barely. There's barely a person there. What does leaving Neverland do that any pass reporting about Jackson's two thousand and five molestation child? Didn't do the documentary makes me rethink everything. I was seeing in two thousand five it makes me more likely now to believe the victims in the two thousand five case, I really do feel that that case was the right charge in the wrong evidence. It just didn't stand up enough to convict, which I also firmly believe that you know, the burden is on the state prove right? What was it thing that was gave you the most like kind of visceral reaction from the documentary? It's the insidious way that that what was going on broke up families, James and Wade started to resent their families even being there by because they were getting in the way of their Michael time. And even though the families were getting to go shopping and getting to go to concerts and flying first class. It was really all about the boy either boy, and the long-term effects on their families is what I really came away with like I had really for once stopped to think about the way an act like this ripples outward giving famil-. Well, you know. Wade Robson's father committed suicide in two thousand two he was bi-polar. But he you know, it was very upsetting. When Wade's mother moved to the United States with weight and his sister and left the father behind this. All because Michael Jackson was so resistible to them, you know, and I think for everyday people still like the the arrival of a celebrity their life has such an impact that that we never even consider especially when you cover entertainment, and you get kind of used to it, particularly these days, there's there's so many allegations of sexual assault or abuse. We have cases a Bill Cosby Louis C K where the public is challenged with supporting the alleged survivors, and consuming the predators art into how do you think that leaving Neverland will impact how people consume Michael Jackson's art? It's different because it's music, and you can't go grocery shopping in the United States of America without hearing, Billie. Jean or beat it or thriller or bad. The eighties are everywhere. I don't know if you've noticed and Michael Jackson is never not on those playlists, especially everything from thriller and bad and dangerous. And you know, so. So I will tell you that while I was putting off watching this film because I'm just like anybody else. I have to be ready for something that hard. I can't just dive right in. So I was hearing Michael Jackson. I was like that's interesting. I wonder if this movie is so convincing that it will make people think about it when they hear Michael Jackson on the radio. And will it makes them turn the station. And I had that experience this morning as getting ready for work. And I turned on the cable channels have all those music offerings, and I had the eighties on darned thriller didn't come on. And I thought you know, I'm turning it off I'm turning it off. And I think a lot of people have the same reaction. Hinxton stupor is the TV critic for the post. Michael Jackson's brothers spoke out against these sexual assault allegations on CBS this morning, saying, quote, I know my brother, I don't have to see the documentary. Tensions between India and Pakistan escalated quickly this week as the two historic rivals exchanged air fire over the disputed Kashmir region for the first time in fifty years. It all came to a head when an Indian pilot was captured by the Pocksteiner military. The pilot is a guy named Navarre theman and on Wednesday. He was flying his fighter jet during the first aerial dogfight between India and Pakistan in fifty years. Joanna Slater is the India bureau chief for the post in that in suing confrontation, his plane was hit it crashed on the Pakistani side of the line in Kashmir, apparently he had to parachute out of his plane when he landed and discovered he was in Pakistan. He was confronted by angry locals. Apparently, he fired into the air with a pistol to try to ward off the mob and also attempted to swallow sensitive documents before he was rescued basically Bipasha sunny soldiers who helped him get first aid and then took him into their custody. Let's take a step back in terms of the events that have unfolded this week. What started this esscalation between India and Pakistan to understand where this started you actually have to go back a tiny bit further and that is to February fourteenth. So that was the day when a massive suicide bombing took place in India's part of Kashmir Kashmir is the Himalayan region that both India and Pakistan have claimed for seven decades, but it's divided between the two of them. So there was a massive suicide bombing in the Indian side which killed forty paramilitary officers. It was the worst militant attack in three decades in Kashmir. So India vowed to respond and the way vow to respond is against Pakistan because the group that claimed responsibility for this attack is based in Pakistan. It's called Jewish Muhammed. So once India. Vowed to respond. It was really only a question of time and how long and what form that response would take. So we got the answer to that question on Tuesday, which is when India launched an airstrike inside Pakistan on what it said was Ajay she Mohammed training camp. And that's what started the hostilities. We saw this week toes a little bit about the historic tensions between India and Pakistan because obviously they have lasted for decades and decades even more than the fifty years. The tension between Indian Pakistan goes right back to the creation of both countries in nineteen forty seven. When India gained its independence in Pakistan was created in the partition of British India. It was very bloody partition and both countries carry some very traumatic memories from that time and once of conflict that has endured from that time is Kashmir itself. Kish MIR's status was never fully resolved in the partition. So what you have in. Kashmir is a dispute over both who should have the territory also who is responsible for violence in the territory because India has long accused Pakistan of sheltering and supporting groups that cross in Indian territory and launch attacks they're Pakistan deny. Is that, but it's intelligence services do have long links to these militant groups, so obviously things were hostile between the two nations. What are the leaders of both of these nations? Saying now, do they want to deescalate the situation or is it going to go to the next level? It does seem now that things have definitively de-escalated for the time being there is not bellicose talk on either side of the border today and ever since yesterday when Pakistan's prime minister Imran Khan said that he was going to release this pilot a things have eased considerably on both sides. But as you knew the the fundamental issue the issue that began all of this, which is Pakistan's alleged support of militant groups who carry out attacks. In Kashmir and other parts of India. That issue has not been resolved to India's had his faction. So it is possible that we could see these tensions return not tomorrow and not next week. But somewhere down the road, what is the significance of Pakistan, releasing the pilots so quickly? And how did that decision? Come about. I think the significance of the speedy release has to do with a couple of things the first is international pressure. You had a fair number of countries stepping in to try and help the escalate the situation, including the United States. We have I think reasonably attractive news from Pakistan and India they've been going at it and we've been involved in trying to have them stop. And we have some reasonably these it news. I think hopefully that's going to be coming to an end. It's been going on for a long time. One of the scary aspects, of course, about any conflict between India and Pakistan is that both do have nuclear weapons and one doesn't knew precisely what the line is for either country in terms of when they would actually use them. I think that point is still, of course, very far away neither country has any interest in nuclear conflict. But that uncertainty and ambiguous is is one of the scary things about hostilities between these two countries, obviously tensions are already high. Can we expect more aggression like this in the near future? I don't think in the near future. But I think we certainly are looking at a new landscape one of the things that Narendra Modi's sought to do. Here was to change the way India response to major terrorist attacks and if he's trying. To change the paradigm whereby when an attack like this occurs. India launches an air strike in Pakistan than we could see some volatile situations in the future. Due. Anna Slater is the India bureau chief for the post. And now one more thing. Journalists thinks special counsel. Robert Muller could deliver his final report any day now while a lot of investigation has taken place behind closed doors. There's a spot where reporters can get at least a glimpse into his investigation, and it's not an ugly building. It's Staley, but it's fairly bland. So it's an appropriate place. That's features writer obvious, elk. And he's been spending time at this courthouse waiting longside journalists trying to make sense of what could be the final days of the Muller investigation. So we're standing in front of the Barrett. Pretty United States courthouse. The same district court house that hosted the Watergate trials and is now hosting the Muller investigation trials and now as in the nineteen seventies. This is about as close as the public and actually get to them some cases, you can walk right through the doors and Bill witness some of the trials or hearings actually happening spend like that pretty much since the beginning of the investigation. Literally anytime anything going on related to the molar investigations there's activity in the case of a week ago. When stone was here for a public hearing. It was you know, it's a shame surface. So, you know, there's a hundred more people in line to go into the actual courtroom and more outside and they really run the gamut. You know, there's a lot of journalists, obviously, a lot of fairly strange people holding very, you know, large science people that remember being at the same court house during the Watergate hearings, which is nearly half a century ago. I guess they see some parallel or nostalgia. Maybe there's you know, bloggers and radio hosts there's people in sweatshirts and people in sneakers people in full three-piece, suits. There's no rhyme or reason to the people that that are sort of compelled to come watch these things. Anytime somebody related the investigation sneezes in this courtroom. There's somebody there taking notes and trying to figure out what the import of that sneeze means for Trump literally every single detail of investigation is scooped up and collected by the public in some capacity. Whether it's through spectacle, or whether it's just a few reporters kind of lurking in the hallway because it all might be so vitally important one day. Muller himself is actually rarely seen in the squad room. He'll send his prosecutors here to do hearings. I guess once in a while he may be spotted maybe for grand jury stuff, but he generally works from afar if the final report yearly is the final final final report and the end of the investigation. That's probably the end of these fifteen minutes of fame for the old pretty Mun courthouse. There'll still be stuff to finish up. But I don't think the reportedly delivered here and. It'll probably. Put an end to a lot of the public fervor around, you know, this place and the investigation. Avi sulk is features reporter for the post. That's it. For post reports. Our executive producer is mentally Cassica. Our senior producer, Matt Kellett. Our producers our Alexis de owl Rena Florez, Lena Muhammed, Maggie penman, Jordan, Marie Smith and Ted Muldoon who composes original music and does sound design for the show. The post director of audio is just stall. I'm kim. Brielle. Kelli filling in for Martine powers. We'll be back Monday with more stories from the Washington Post.
Han Solo: A Character Study
"Star Wars is presented by state farm. You know those days when it feels like problems just pop out of nowhere. Helpful folks state firm do. That's right like offender becker. When you're already late or thief breaking into your home made off with your new flat screen? TV and luckily there are more than nineteen thousand agents. Were there for you because when it comes to auto and home insurance state farm agents are ready to help finance in today's safer dot com Everything's under control situation normal. What happened His life weapons malfunction. But everything's perfectly all right now. We're we're fine. We're all fine here. Now thank you are you autumn Negative negative you weren't bedroom contains adult continent. Spoilers is a give us a few minutes lockdown large leak very dangerous. What we're offering number conversation anyway? Well we're GONNA and now bench mode Listen to me to Louis. Hey maybe strength time princess you have to take care of you hear me and I love you. I know Tom Binns Road Stars. It's fantastic fantastic. That's right New Year. New Look same old wars up in the stars Same Stars say wars star Seymour seemed galaxy. See it's still very very far away. It's a long time ago. Folks were proudly a part of the ringer podcast networks. Right Mallory Ruben editor in chief of the Ram Come twenty twenty with still a great website. y'All it's still good. It's better than ever. That's right. It's great never been better than this. The edge is razor sharp. This is the galaxy's edge the RINGER DOT COM. It's right joining me today. Now that he has finished clearly unambiguously irrefutably shooting. I that's right you're creative even your Jedi master your smuggler Jas Concepcion Month Glenn Game I'm a smuggler I drug smuggler. And we'll go back to bitch mode. Stores were exploring the Wider Stores University of skywalker Saga Films. So the analogy films. The man Laurean plus numerous I other facets of a galaxy far far away. Please make the journey to correlates. Wonderful timing you're with us by subscribing to this podcast podcastone apple podcasts interest. spotify wherever you get your podcast and please rate and if you have the time reviewers if you're gonNA raise though it's gotta be five that's right we will send lady Proximus. Weird Eagle like ask the bite. She would white worms common for you. Gross please also follow us on twitter and Instagram at Binge Underscore Mode Aka the underscore enjoying our facebook. Which is just for Binge Mon mode fans in which is an excellent place to post your favorite Harrison Ford photos mouse genome all? Here's the thing we can do. Try and show. Oh Mallory Ruben a picture of Harrison Ford. Let's call it pre nine thousand nine hundred eighty that she is not seen. You can try. You can try but you will fail folks. You can try and try and love for you to try this. You're going into the Ford household and popping open in one of their photo albums and taking a Kodak out and then scanning it and putting it on the Internet mallard seeing the photo and please decide to the ringer dot com slash shop to check out our Benjamin merch pairs wonderfully your favorite Han Inspire Jack indeed last time of of binge mode. We explored the wonderful man. delorean season one finale scrape surrogate today. We're diving deep deep into our latest character. Study I'm Han Solo. Ever heard of a I have heard of him as always spoiler morning just leg he we go into lay. After the battle of vendor we will be going deep in the entire Star Wars Saga the date take an official Canon and legends. Hashtag not cannon into account so punch it because it's time to board the Millennium Falcon Jason. Yeah never and I mean never tell me the I would never do that ever. There's almost no chance of ever telling you the odds the very low. Thank you like a one in three chance you hear that three Po. I certainly never tell me. The odds of creating a pop culture icon archetype. That gets us to this. The idea so search our feelings and use the force. The defining theme of this episode is Yes Harrison. Ford being handsome. No sorry sorry but I mean really yes honestly the life yes lessons what you see. Yes of Han Solo and the rogue archetype archetype. Let serve the little bit a brief history of the rogue and rebel in hop culture leading up to to a new hope and the introduction of Han Solo some of the influences and inspirations for the character wheels really got we have to start with someone on who first embodied the kind of western hero an adventurer for an entire generation of early movie goers hours. John Wayne Johnny Dubs. And it's a particular key one in terms of the eternal Han shot first debate we mocked Georgia's fiddling butts it it hinges on his fundamental view of who hustle is how he should behave and how he should be he perceived Here is big daddy. George Lucas from a two thousand fifteen hank stewart piece in the Washington Post quote Hansel was GonNa Mary Laya and you look back and say should he be a cold blooded killer. Because I was thinking with logically we should he be cowboy. Should he be John Wayne and I said yeah he should be John. Wayne John Wayne if you're not familiar with his roof oof in the western genre. Never killed anyone in Col- hated it. Hated it only like three thousand native Americans. It's but no one else in cold blood certainly and when you are John when you don't shoot people I you let them have the first shot it's a mythological reality early that we hope. Our Society pays attention to incredible incredible stuff. Incredible quo for Lotteries Ins. Yes but I think I don't agree with the reality of that statement but I think it gets at something that is Scott of elemental about heroism. Which is terrorism? mm-hmm is always about defense. It's never about aggression and I think that was what Georgia's responding to. He wanted to make sure that this is not just a guy who just walks up it sees as someone who has a problem with him and then shoots him in the chest. Yes and we're GONNA talk in a few minutes about what really is at the heart of Han as the character and part of the through line of this conversation is going to be that really challenging alchemy in the harmony of the elements that are a part of who he is. And when you're going for literal space cowboy has the John Wayne Eh influence indicates quite clearly that you know George. Lucas was part of being a cowboy. Is that frontier spirit and that sense of adventure but the characters especially here's people who for half to ultimately be held accountable to the morality of the movie and the universe. It's a great point. You know we think about what makes Hanin part of it is that he is kind of illicit person. Smuggler criminal character. But what is a cowboy in a Western cowboy is a fusing of community law into a single person and Hans a person who acts by his own code. He's got his own code that he lives by his own laws even though he doesn't necessarily certainly recognize the laws of the GALAX. Yes there's also Gary Cooper whose wardrobe from high noon grape movie is very reminiscent of Hans Hans outfits particularly in a new hope it two thousand eighteen the solo ending in which Han faces off with Beckett trying to wreck parallel to the end of high noon Lawrence Kasdan till stores dot com about this parallel quote. He's not living in a romantic fantasy of chivalry of chivalry. And this is one of the reasons he such. A popular popular characters reasoning caught. My imagination from new hope is because he represented a kind of very practical cynical. I'm going to survive this scene attitude. Humphrey Bogart who made entire career out of these kind of hard bitten grizzled cynical characters who act like they don't really believe in anything but actually we secretly. Do I watch Casablanca for just like no reason like because it was on CNN the other this past weekend and it's like the perfect embodiment of that kind of character. Where yes rick acts like? He doesn't believe in anything. You runs a gambling establishment. There's people making deals left and right. There's like arms dealers and spies up in here and yet you know very quietly. He's always helping people. And that's like Han. Yes he's looking for money all the time but it always seems to fall on the side of helping people rate self interest quickly is way were. Han is concerned to the needs of the group even if he would not want you to think of him that way that is ultimately his instinct. And that's one of the reasons we're drowned him. Another very clear even directly cited influences James Dean and in general if we go beyond rogue to the rebel a broader sense the rock and roll revolution counterculture defining the spirit of roguish rebellious behavior. You're in the country in the world at large before a new hope. James Dean is the face of that for a lot of people and for George Lucas yes that. DNA was something that he wanted to capture port over to hide in an early draft of a new hope this would been the third draft and tracking Hans. Evolution through under the early drafts is one of the really fun things to do. We'll talk about that as we go. But in that third draft is referred to as quote tough James Dean style star pilot. Yeah about twenty. Five years old a cowboy in starship simple sentimental and cocksure of himself cocksure indeed. But that's obviously just a fundamental soul encapsulation of the Han essence that aura on the surface. The instant thing you think of an associated with and then the thing that even as he evolves in your understanding evolves that still lasts forever. Yeah is that aura of just irrepressible cool. It's such a great point because you think like James Dean is a person who passed away like what sixty years ago or something like that and yet his image is absolutely i. Kinda cool is cool for a very long time caused timeless. Who'll is timeless? You could still look James Dini's wearing outfits in the fifties you select. That is a good looking and handsome young men and you think about what an achievement. It's very easy to sit here and be like. Oh we're talking about Hansel and Harrison Ford and they they molded this iconic character on on James Dean it and to think about like in pre production for Star Wars. Yeah we want him to be like a James Dean type and then actually hitting that. That's the thing actually accomplishing that. It's amazing maybe not the most innovative thing to SRI. I absolutely not right gene yet. That's the thing I mean Greta out of all complex. Yes it really is. This might be a little surprising to some people because it's seemingly on the opposite end of the spectrum from James Dean Francis Ford or Coppola. The legendary director the Titan of cinema was another wide knowledge influence. Winemaker big time wind in guy. Well Yeah I love how many people have a passion for wine. You know like if Tom Brady steps away from the game. We're going to be hearing a lot about how he came into who his legacy drew bledsoe. And then you know reading here about drew. BLEDSOE's winery in Walla Walla Washington. You know it's kind of like jewelry for your real estate uh-huh foot grapes are and then you don't do anything you you'd smash them and you put them in a barrel and you wait. It's amazing what a racket I love mine is I love what I respect it. So there are a couple of aspects to the Francis Ford Coppola influence one is just that he was a seismic influence on George as very very important Horton figure Georges quoted in a AF. I interview as saying quote Francis and I were very good friends right. From the moment we met he continues. He basically he taught me everything about writing and directing at the same time. He got my first film off the ground. Any help get my second film off the ground. Lucas would go on to do second. Unit stuff stuff for the Godfather of other of Francis Films and I was like extremely important and giving George the confidence to follow through with some of the ideas he has and Lucas would say that. He specifically shaped Han with Francis. Ford Coppola kind of swagger swagger and confidence is the key when it comes to how influenced Hans creation from a Joshua Rothman that's fourteen piece in the New Yorker titled The craziest Star Wars. There's this quote at the time. He was a young seductive swashbuckling smoothie and he there is not Hans Solo it is Francis Ford Coppola impressed George Lucas by talking warner brothers into funding apocalypse. Now when you think about the future of George Lucas self-financing and seeing and how much of his movie empire and what Lucasfilm became centered on his relationship to the earnings and the spending that is aroma. Marketable Fokker on moment in his identity and obviously the identity of one of his key characters. Coppola will also play a key role in in a second hand fashion. And how Harrell's me got the part which we get to the casting. And then how about Bruce Springsteen for the Alden Ehrenreich Hound Hound Solo version. At least Aaron Right told the failure in two thousand eighteen terms growing up in circumstances that are hard that you hate and then dreaming of a better life for yourself softening getting out. Bruce would be it really did you. He's lease Goo Monir fell. Thank you scrape. Okay so those. He's also influences some of the many. What about Hans actual invention? And then his impact the essence of Han the character the heart of Harrison Ford as the person bringing Han Solo to life and abiding Hans low for so many of us for so long all obviously deeply locally crimes. Your voice changes a d play. It's just his Wilson and why do you turn into a smooth jazz. Dj All say. Why don't you? It's almost like a Pavlovian reflexive response. I can't help it. Yeah it is. But here's the thing. I'm not the only one who appreciates so I appreciate him. Do and who legions of others. Because we're all in his clutches Jason and one way or another. Now there's a quote from Peter Jackson. He Brilliant Adapter adopter of Lord of the Rings All. It is clutches watches. Peter Jackson said on the Star Wars Trilogy Gee. DVD this line that really nicely sums up Hans lasting appeal and the instant appeal to harm Solo. Is that character that we always lease wished we could be. That's right. I think most of us felt like Luke skywalker but we would have loved to have been Han Solo nap when you pair that which I think is spot on and probably reflects how a lot of us feel with Harrison Ford's own insight about George Lucas relationship to luke a really fascinating lens to think of why he would have created Han and wanted him to be portrayed this way remember. We mentioned this on our return of Djeddai podcast but in the Harrison Ford interview feature at on the return of the Jedi special edition Harrison Ford said. I always thought the character. Luke skywalker was George George George facing a conflict and the need to prove himself and he did powerfully. And so you'd see. The capture of Luke skywalker changed from one film to the next and develop in much the same way George was developing now. Obviously Luke is the hero. Yes Luke is chosen one two point but he's not the one when you watch it at home that you're immediately thinking I wanNA hang out with him or I wanNA fuck him or I want to be him. Han Solo is the one you feel the thing about cool is there's like an ineffable kind of inaccessibility to it right you're the cool U N not. Yeah but it's not something that you can like Luke there's no hero's journey need to cool you either have it. That's right or you do not. I think what's so fascinating about that. Though is when you think about science fiction you think about fantasy you think about a story that in any way hinges I'm magic or some sort of power or ability whether it's being a wizard Harry Potter or being a jet I being able to use the force Star Wars that is of course the most basic level. The thing that you covet thing that you want and so- juxtapose against that the ability to tap into the energy of the universe and bend it to your will and then to look at the guy next to him and say no. That's the one guy that is a colossal achievement. It also makes sense to me. There's no burden there is being on his easier. So ways here you just eat fly in say a couple of things fly out maybe come back and do you some good. And then everybody's like all thank you so much on for turning the tide. What who's the coolest Harry Potter character? Cedric the Dick. Wow Wow this is a fabulous question. coolest Harry Potter character. Cool to us or cool cool cool in the World Harry Potter. who were the ones runs? It was like Oh that guy I think George. Yeah that's true or bill weasley either bills out of school Yengeni. School Flora doesn't count because she like actually just over stimulates your ramones to appoint like you can't actually be rational about floor. Talks is cool. Kingsley Kingsley sackable. Not at school. But he's cool for sure kingdom. Gets it obviously dumbledore school. dumbly MBUI's pretty cool. I take your point though. Yeah that's a tough one because they dance centric everybody loved centric. Cho- cool no no right. So how did this come to be. How did Han get to be Han in that form. And how did they find Harrison Ford to play him. Hun In early drafts of the script was supposed to be agreed alien alien. Amazing amazing unbelievable stuff from big George Lucas. Then he was supposed to be a Caribbean pirate. Right and the and the look was more pirate base swashbuckler. It'd be curved sword all that luckily we got our smooth-talking north averting pilots. Luckily we got our smooth-talking nervous verdict pilots smuggler. Instead and fun fact you can read the green alien the early draft in comic book form. Thanks to dark horse comics. The series is called the Star Wars. That's the essence in Georgia design was ultimately this according to his annotated screenplay interviews with Lawrence Bozo quote. His character is basically weekly a cynical loner who realizes the importance of being part of a group and helping for the common good compromising sacrificing his own welfare for those of others others and there are a lot of people up for this role folks. Oh so many an incredible half ass Internet research endeavor. Okay to hello quote our sister Pie watchable 's some of this his pretty well sourced and locked and is really out there. And it's been reported it on widely and then some of this is any article you click on. You'RE GONNA find five new names kind of depends but one thing that is clear. Harrison Ford has talked about this Christopher walk in basically had this part. It's fucking insane the other final. This is an aside and we'll get into the suspect as we'll talk but whether it's on indie other roles roles he's had luck plays a huge role and he said that himself listen Harrison Ford immensely talented and extremely handsome. Yeah there are a lot of good good brakes than he got. Oh yeah all throughout his career to get these roles and this is one of them. Christopher Walken as you noted had locked up. I can't even imagine I wish I could do a walk in impersonations so that we could figure out what that would be like. Oh my Julie make the jumps like speed the Chino. That's an amazing one to think about. I mean we're talking like Godfather era in my spaceship up. Where my sweeps imagine like post scarface? Man That'd be. There is so understated about the way that Harrison Ford Plays Helen so many of the most vibrant and vivacious basis moments are just him smirking really he does a lot. He does a lot with smirks with this kind of like a rangy like Nick Body. Language SPR- man's spreading across the screen. Familiar Bobby D Robert DeNiro. Incredible that would have been a different movie. Nick Nolte before he became Quayle Russell which would have been interesting. You can see the Kurt Russell Edition Online. That casting tape is out there. That would have been all names. You've listed so far that's the one that's easiest for me to picture same here so versus very very tough to imagine that. Don't understand that one vogel. What about the Millennium Falcon Training to make the Kessel Ron Blake to the rocky montage rush music cheese shoutout to Chevy Chase's agent just to get him on the list of people? Here's the thing. Don't take my mic. After I say this he had a lot of heat at that. It's not shocking when he will you pour yourself especially because of how much of the capture centered on humor and charisma and the comedic element. I think he could have pulled off. He had a lot of heat at that time. A lot of heat. It's odd to think about now. This next one is James Caan. Why Oh you shot great? Oh I do you GonNa put you blister under the table of that blow always greet goods his kid. I Love my God. I mean Robert England Aka Aka Freddie from the nightmare series. I want to do it that one. Who is just bizarre bill? Murray okay again the yeah. Yeah among others the James Caan. I'm still thinking about imagine the Han death scene in force awakens except Kyle stabbed him eight hundred times fire. Stabs wasn't that all black shoe brazen I guess They did to my son. I want you to look. I want you to dig all your powers and I want you to make it. So the the Princess Leia can see him with an open gifts. Kit It is you. It's amazing I guess it's not surprising that so many godfather actors were linked to the role given George Lucas's obsession with Coppola. Yes and also that you know they had okay. We're GONNA talk about this momentarily. But they had a casting director Fred right and common link. That's right Han. was very nearly a black character. Billy Dee Williams initially auditioned for Han and he of course became Landau. Glenn termine has also discussed being in the running for the role of hunting and a two thousand seven interview with creative loafing quote. Apparently George Lucas had me in mind for the role and then thought there might be too much controversy between a white Princess Leia and Black Consolo because those were the times and he didn't want to get into that it's very disheartening. That's upsetting it's quite upsetting Harrison. Ford was a famously part. Time actor actor and part-time Carpenter. Jason will be getting into this at length in today's Jedi temple my slum would I know Dennis Smith junior of woods slinging he did it fly again. What slang excuse me and he got on Lucas radar and hours Hours in Lucas's nineteen seventy-three film American graffiti about Southern California car culture but as explained any rolling stone interview with Brian. HIATT AHEAD OF THE FORCE AWAKENS. An incredible and prior experience with Lucas was not what led him to the audition in fact it absolutely worked against him. Because Lucas had it dead set in in his mind he wanted unknown knew he did not want to work with any actress who worked with previous rights to start something completely new right so as Ford Ford told Hyatt and explained him and there are various versions of this story out there that kind of have slight tweaks depending on where you're reading memory is memory as we're we're going we're we're going with one from Harrison Ford's mouth here so as he told high it he was installing door for the Francis Ford Coppola so here he is again entering the French inch doors or something like that some kind of entrance at Golden Studios wanted to do the job at night yes to avoid as he said Quote Cross Frost Nation. Yeah that's actually very smart. Yes the quote continues. This is Francis his office. I love being a carpenter. I love being an actor. I'm just not going to confuse the the two great but as it happened one night in walks George Lucas. He's with Richard Dreyfuss credible again. Incredible just I just think of these leaks. Amazing Hollywood is it does why battle they were using Coppola office so they come by I Harrison Ford winds up chatting. That was it. Ford insisted into high it but then Fred reuss another keenum. This is is the casting director on casting consultant. Jason just mentioned asked Harrison Ford to read with the other actors not according to Harrison Ford. Read for the port. I just read the other actors. Run their lines right. Read for their editions and he told high at the pretty with more than a hundred people quote. The story that I know is that there were two threesomes who is that. They're more than two. Wow that's is almost. Certainly the case in nineteen seventy six story that I know is that there were two threesomes that they narrowed it down to and I was in one of them. I had no idea that that was the potential situation. They asked me if I wanted to do it and I said sure why not so. That's it he was reading because roose asked him to when it all of a sudden he's in one of the final threesomes and they're offering him the part and what's so fascinating about. This is that they were very very very wisely casting for one thing almost above all else chemistry between the three primary. Did they get it. Yes Han Leia Luke. They knew as you talked about as we've talked about so many times over the run of the pod that the film was going to hinge on believing in the relationships between those characters so for Ruth who had been the casting director on American graffiti had brought Harrison Ford in for that movie and was also a casting sold it on star. Wars was a big believer in Harrison. Ford's words chemistry and who wouldn't be right. The two thousand sixteen entertainment weekly piece by Anthony President can now at Vanity Fair and then and he w reuss explained selene how he was pushing pushing for four to be considered for the role of hunt quote. I was from the GECKO pushing them for Hans Solo. George you saw right under your nose in American graffiti and finally clicked with George. Other people were considered but finally I won the day with George on that one. Imagine being able to mazing ghost just about being the guy who said you have to trust me on this one Harrison Ford asked behind solo at the telluride. All your ride film festival in two thousand four Harrison Ford would say of reuss quote Fred a very loyal man once he believes in you. He's unrelenting he kept putting me up for parts. It's and I kept getting rejected. Finally things worked out. I mean what a wonderful boon to have a guy like that in your corner incredible. And how did you feel feel about his new leading men in the fourth Q in a with rolling stone heights at Ford Right. As Lucas was finishing the first movie he was asked why he cast you. Lucas said quote. He was the best actor for the part Harrison handsome a bashing and Sullen with an underlying current of sensual hostility ability all time quote. Harrison's reply Jesus. I didn't know you like to be that much well. I like him that much to Harrison. Ford is definitely wanted to jewel stealing best interview subjects. Such a riot show unfiltered filtered unafraid. To say what's on his mind. That is absolutely incredible and now of course the character and the actor central the are absolutely inextricable if they were ever separate of the GIN with by the way exactly right. How much of finding really was came through casting Austin Harrison Ford on the empire strikes back? DVD Director Irvin Kirschner explained for its perch quote Harrison. Delves into himself on the time he creates problems. Ah for himself that in the solution give him the results that he wants and his Ford told Hyatt and rolling stone. He had a clear sense of his role quote. My character was both useful. A useful in advancing of the story but also useful to the audience and providing a more contemporary reference. He was the cynic and so that's a good starting point. I recognized that this was not science science fiction in my mind. This was a fairytale it was like a grimm fairy tale. I really enjoy hearing him. Talk about how he thinks about Hans function in the story. Yes it's endlessly. XLII fascinating so after craft at Han after they cast on. What did we get specifically well? Let's start with a look before we get space cowboy. The look is we might break our own record year for use of the word iconic but the look is iconic word I kind of get existed. Describe something like this first of all the outfits the fashion he was grounded in something that people recognize and understood You Know Luke kind of has these flowing almost I like Japanese influenced kind of quasi very loose fitting tunics and stuff and obey the Samurai influence on that side than the Western influence that signed. So there there's something very grounded about Harrison's overall look with the kind of like cavalry pants high boots and then like the the whole cowboy aesthetic from the Rolling Rolling Stone interview with high at quote. There's a story that they put you in the first costume and it was pretty much the same but it had a giant your pan collar and Harrison says it did in in Robin's egg blue I said is this just piece it on to get the fuck off and deal with George wasn't there but I said this can't be right you know there's been a live as he's a lot of in the discussion of rise of Skywalker this kind of talk about perceived sniping about how the previous movie by actors in the Third Mimi and no one has talked about the Star Wars. Were that Arison for now. Who in interview you after interview contemporaneous and long after it's been like some version of you just really can't understand how silly this was at the time or something like like you don't understand what it was like to see? These words on the page writes would as always so remarkable about that is the candor. Yeah never felt like a humid the expense of gratitude and affection. That's a great point. It was very authentic and it felt like on. And that's a that's a that's a great point and it is a very fine line because I think obviously something like that adding a kind of collaborative atmosphere that so high pressure could be anxiety. Inducing extremely stressful and it was certainly stressful for George Lucas. But I think the fact that Harrison cared that the work would come out being good right that obviously carried through in these various critiques. He had of wardrobe and the dialogue and etc.. Yes I think the wardrobe your point about being recognizable is so important interesting. Because it's sort of almost I. I'd and a little counterintuitive that we all collectively spend this much time obsessing over something that really anyone could just sure where on Thursday like a leather jacket. AVESTA asked a kind of cream baseball t underneath it with just the right amount. Anybody of any one of the ringer staff comes in with like Doc Navy Blue Cavalry with strikes stripe on the side and the and the boots that come up to the knee. I will be like Y. You're in your bag. Whatever that is that would be slightly tougher to conceive but I can think of off the top of my had dozen people on our staff who could pull off the vest? Look Doc oh sure and then you know the outerwear is absolutely timeless so this is the thing yes and has been incorporated into the text of the story itself. You know there's that Nice moment in the force awakens when Han and layer. Reuniting and she says you know same jacket is like no. It's a new jacket that idea of the necessity of the like tiny tiny tweak to something that you ultimately don't WanNa fuck with because it is timeless and perfect by its very essence in nature. Yeah I just picturing like Han on flying to the banana republic on Udo power something and get gully but that's the other thing lake. Think about the oddest moment in any of the movies for Luke's fashion even though he looks great. It's when they're receiving their medals at the new hope because he so clearly doing Han Qasr play right. I'M GONNA get him GonNa get cool jacket to and again like there's so much when you when you think about Star Wars. Of course you mostly think about the story in the world and the facts the characters. But it's not too far removed from that that you think about the iconography of the fashion something like Laos Cinnamon Bun hairstyle. These things that are just just completely innocently associated with the store itself and most of those things one a lightsaber looks like how a droid sounds. How L- A wore her hair? There are things that are utterly unique and Specific Star Wars Hans fashioned was not and yet it feels like it was so there is The hairstyle has always with great hairstyle. Let's summarize here for better part kind of what would you call it like a Shag definitely in a new hope. He's got longer shaggy. Your hair the best. His hair ever looks in star. Wars is as he is about to be lowered into the carbonate chamber in Empire because it is shorter and a little tighter. My only complaint about Hans and like I said the hair was actually a little too long. Like if you WANNA go around in response spawns to everyone by saying who scruffy scruffy scruffy trim the hair a little bit. That's all I'm saying. Now he looks great the best Harrison Ford Hair. Movie of all time Well you know I think it's witness. He's just a cat and a lot of it witnesses. I think his in the hairs unimpeachable will the indy hair when he's teaching the class. That's a thing that's what makes it. So yeah perfect. Is that the versatility yes to be able to pull off breath professorial chic and then just pivot seamlessly to from getting literal. Fuck me is from this Johnson. Yeah yeah that's an incredible moment incredible and again not to. I don't WanNa step on my take from the hottest state but evangelist the Tomb Raider easily. The best absolutely cancelled and I think in that short art and really affecting scene when he's teaching class you get the sense that there are deeper troubles with Indiana Jones's work as a professor. They're probably issues that nobody wants to do. You have a favorite airport. How you know I think witnesses a good one? I might also also say mosquito coast because it was just kind of link shaggy and I do kind of like the shaggy. I think maybe His working girl hair to working. Your hair's got I'm GONNA go with frantic. Which is a movie? I'm trying to get you to see. That's like the slicked back. It's kind of like Wall Street. Harrison Ford now mind okay. I mean it's all perfect. Obviously that is the thing actually about the Han Solo hairstyle. That wallet is not my favorite Harrison. Ford movie hair is ultimately perfect for the character. I it can be as that rebel spirit. Come back in a cut my hair or wear my hair the way you want. I'm kidding I've got. The vacuum Speiss blowing appeared looking co-pilot. That's right this guy's never had air right is fucking Dick and balls hanging out. He they'll let me tell you. Wipe that seat where you sit down. Would you been sitting. You think on was ever like Chewy let me recommend a pair of slacks to you. Know he just respected his spirit. Do you think that when she got up from the the seat there was ever like condensation Asian swamp ass poured it over to whatever surface. He was sitting on absolutely absolutely my God. I mean if I were ever gonNA use that hollow chess table I would only sit on one so I can't say yes it on the PO offense. The leather is noticeably darker. Caution tape around disgusting and then there is. Of course the blaster Oh yeah modeled. After a German mauser c ninety six which Winston Churchill weirdly loved. I'm sure Chuck Roads as a book about that. Well he had to back down really hunted down the find it deep cut for all you millions The Hans Solo posed Danis Cowboy posed with the one arms fired out holding the blast in the other arm kind of steadying himself in a crowd associated with the character before most people even seeing the move as it was in the marketing material. I love to unsurprisingly. Think about this. Of course you do. Why why do we think so often? About how Han Solo stands how he positioned his body it's just body language is an elemental form of human communication. And when we talk about cool body language is important. Listen we were just talking before we started recording today about the NFL playoffs. It's right okay. Everybody here watch the Games a lot of people listening. I'm sure watch the Games. We all heard book talk about boys. Nine Thousand Four Hundred Times Poise Book McFarland Orland Hans Solo the Boorman Poised Jason. He's poised confidence like we said earlier. He's conveying through his posture. His total sense of self assurance yes and it is important that when you're watching the movie whether whether it's the old either be or you WanNa be with them thing right and you either want to sink the you could carry yourself that way or that had a person who can carry themselves that way is somebody who you're going to enjoy spending time with in a biblical sense if you're dropped into a dangerous situation in space light years years away from many kind of thing that you know about or used to who you're going to gravitate to the person who's like freaking island. Oh my God space. This is amazing. I've never been off tattooing or or the guy who's like I've done this thousand do- men can be just by sitting there. Yeah it's going to be the way that he leans. It's remarkable so let's talk about that that attitude issue that vibe that essence because that is so elemental to this entire discussion Ford is always been really impressive in how clearly he conveys invades how he feels about haunt essence and how carefully he is always obviously thought about that. From the Rolling Stone interview quote. My experience had been that there were oftentimes when people did it relates the suggestions I was making. It had an idea on top of that by this about how to play the character. Just because you can type. This shit doesn't doesn't mean that it is going to be absolute best oppression. That is typing. Now let's see what the next step is. How does this finally feel in the mouth? The how does it feel in the mouth. She how does is this hanging in the air. Like warm in here what. What does this mean introspective what other people are bringing what is really there in front of our faces? So what is there in front of our faces. What is that essence? While Han Solo is of course a rogue. Yeah a loaner when we meet him as we said earlier from that George Lucas quote. He's cynical he's arrogant as we've talked about over the course of the run he can be kind of a dig at times you know. We always talk about her charming. He is and then when you return to the movies you hear some of the things he's saying the ways the Dick that horrid edge. That's not afraid to make other people feel bad. But ultimately than the other aspects of his persona the playoff against that somehow feel even more rewarding he is such assurer such swagger so fun yeah so unflappable cool and I think when you think about his career paths yet job smuggler pilot it. He is someone who is free a free bird who has complete agency. He's not confined by the rules of the republic or the empire and if there is kind of a length out for having a mind that's right if there's a through line to a kind of that kind of like adventurous character like back through stories stories. Yes it's this kind of person who lives by their wits. Yes who's able to take what the world gives them and make it somehow make it something more and have an adventure inch boot. And that's what haunt us. The Han shot first debate is emblematic. y'All have very clear ideas of Han including of course big George the person who created him in two thousand twelve interview with the Hollywood reporter. George Lucas discussed the reasons he keeps hurting. Sagredo seed again again. What I did was try to clean up the confusion but obviously upset people because they wanted solar? It'll be a cold blooded killer but he actually is. That's what I want. I wanted him to decapitate people. George when you first saw a hated it absolutely hated handsome on Solo. There's really kicking cajal man jaded if there's one critique people had when star wars came out like man. This is an incredible movie. Movies will never be the same. But it's such a shame. That cold blooded leaded killer is in the movie because I hate him George continues. It had been done in all close close ups and it was confusing about. Who did what to whom God? I put a little wider shot in there. That made it clear that greed is the one who shot first but everyone wanted to think that Han shot first up because they wanted to think that he actually just got down stop messing with people like this endless fodder. There really are a rich tax that gives them gives them gifts right one of the other things about of course in addition to him clearly shooting. I is that when we first meet him in a new hope he does not believe in the force. That's right and that is really key. I think he's totally not a part of any establishment whether it's something something like the government or something like the slowly reforming jet I order. And it's only when he finds the other people. Paul Luke Leia. who make him discover something else about who he is and make him realize that he he actually does want to become a part of something bigger than themselves that he manages to maintain he's really unique Oron identity while also opening up to showing himself end to the other people that he's trying to help but there's this softer side and I think the thing that is so important about that is you? Know Georgia's spoke openly about this being a story that he calibrated to really effect younger viewers. And I think of course. The younger views are absolutely gravitates. Luke kind of wide eyed wonder an adventure at the things happening. But it's important to have that character in there that's kind of like this is all kind of bullshit isn't it. Oh you're not actually saying that but the forest would get at here with the force member. One of the long long ago asked Andrew Score Mail bags where we talked about who we would want to be our master if we were training. And your whole thing there was I what the real shit not the propaganda. A threat on is another version of that. Who's going to tell you the real ship but also be mature enough and a tuned enough to a who he is in the world around him to be able to admit when he's wrong and adjust and his relationship with the forest is a very key example our and talk about that later today and the aid and what that reflects talks about his growth as a character but all told all of that comes together to create this completely utterly indelible creation who has inspired countless other other characters in his image? You know we talked a lot about Joseph Campbell and his monmouth and how that influenced George Lucas and the creation of all star wars. But what did Campbell himself himself. Think of Star Wars. Hand you fucking to fifteen lucas see strom explored this S.. Four showers dot com great. two-part piece that you can read all of his thoughts but for our purposes here. Today we wanted to share his recounting of Campbell's Han Solo Solo comments from his nineteen eighty-four visit to the Palestinian Arts and San Francisco on Han Solo specifically Campbell felt thusly according to the peace quote. The famed aimed Cantina sequence from a new hope was Campbell's favorite symbolizing. The mythical first step into the wider world he'd celebrate Hans Solo Character. We first meet in the CANTINA commenting quote nope. He thinks he's an ego but he really isn't. That's a very lovable. kind of human. Being a great there are lots of them functioning beautifully in the world. They think they're working for themselves themselves. But there's something else pushing them. It's great that's a great way to sum up on and Rick from all these other and it pushes them ultimately toward these iconic pairings these associations that we think about justice forceful in fully as the character himself the pairings so important to the character of Star Wars there is Han and chewy iconic iconic iconic do iconic what they think about star wars about hundred Julie Amazing them together gather. I remember sitting watching. The force awakens the theater in New York City in the thrill when they come bounding back onto the Millennium Falcon is then then. Of course there is Han. End The falcons which is a character absolutely just like any other relationships in his absolutely Han and Leia I mean gene. Hello only one of the most important ships and couplings in the history of Pop Culture Han and Luke and the kind of progression progression of yes. Respect that Han has for Luke in the way that evolves over the course of the first moving into the second is one of the things that so satisfying about that film. Yeah and you know. We've we've talked about this a lot while discussing the original trilogy but think the tendency often is think about how lucas kind of lost in the shadow of Hans. Cool which casts off quite far. And then when you really think about how ultimately Luke has as much of an effect on Han as Honda's on Luke and Luke being able to break through something about Hans Heart Art and his soul on his desire to participate in the community and the whole is really an essential part of the story and then there is a Han and in his early girlfriend is early love interest Cura. That's right now. A noted organized crime figure in the Galaxy. The Dragon Queen Herself Man. Love love her. Incredible stuff return we will I forever from UH sponsors Mitchell Star Wars. It's presented by state farm state farm agents know that sometimes life throws everything at you at once like a fender bender. When you're already late when it comes to auto and home insurance state farm agents or there for you touch one of our nineteen thousand state farm agents via text over the phone in person or format find one today state farm dot com now back to binge mode? Here's a question. Yeah did Han invent Be Big Dick Energy. I think there's a case for the you know it's the force that binds us it it. CNN tweet all things binds the galaxy together it's the energy that emanates from that big big. The big I mean he's the one of the all time be characters and actual human beings on the Mount Rushmore of. It's just him and his mountain is a giant Phallus and then instead of the head of the penis. There's a face carved into a god great there are of course no shortage testaments to Han solo standing as an icon con here are just some of the lists and ranking just some just some number fourteen on. Afi's list of best movie heroes. Amazing he's number or fourteen and he's not the star of the movie or even a conventional hero which is why it's amazing so impressive number. Three empires list of top one hundred movie characters of all time Indiana Jones number one. This is wild. You're on the top three and again we're GONNA get into this over the course of this pod but from nineteen seventy seven to nineteen ninety seven ninety eight. No one has a more impressive. IMDB run they peck mountain of Apex Mountain Awesome. It's just an apex planet number seven on. Aws List of twenty coolest pop culture. Heroes I would put him higher has to be but seven impressive as Han and Harry Ford or a tough to top Komo according to a mental floss analysis of box office motor numbers in September. Two Thousand Nineteen Ford's movies with fourth highest grossing domestically of any actor in history behind only Samuel L.. Robert Downey junior and scar. Joe Oh which I would put in its own category. 'cause it almost doesn't count lender MC you doesn't count this is Ford over numerous. Ip Eh Star Wars Indie. Tom Clancy you name it. Amazing stuff from Harrison Ford and Hansel amazing so we talked the earlier about some of the other forces in culture and the world that influenced the birth of Han Solo but once on soul existed did and became this iconic figure that became the archetype on is then the face of the rogue and the rebel. And then Hon is the figure that influences so much of what comes after. And that's true both in Star Wars itself and cultural arshile saw star. Wars itself I before we do some of the examples samples from culture at large Ford has famously said many many many many many times that he thought Han should have died. What a flex by the way compatible should've killed me but I'm still here and this is of course in back on the original trilogy is obviously? He's killed in the weekends in the Rolling Stone Interview Review. He said it got picked up by the press. Because I had the fundamental ignorance to fucking say it out loud good a wild man and then in two thousand sixteen after he of course did die in the force awakens. He was talking about this on Jimmy Kimmel and he said I argued for thirty thirty years for this to happen. The reason that wanted to mention that in addition to just being hysterical is because the idea of Han dying and the actor who portrayed him wanting to die in some way speaks to how lasting and eternal he was going to be regardless he didn't actually need in Harrison Ford's minded probably in many people's minds to actually still be in the movies to in any way impact our lives he was going to impact our lives and star wars culture forever. No matter what and that has proven true Even though he did not actually die until the first week and so the first place that we have to start is obviously the Solo Movie Soloist Star Wars story better than you remember her. Check it out give it another try a character iconic enough to warrant his own spinoff. That's huge and remember. This was reportedly according to alternate himself. Supposed to be a trilogy. Make it a trilogy. You Coward Make Solitu- happens. Still a routine trending the topic out there on social media. We obviously stand for this movie we enjoy Solo. But the film's commercial. Failure on the star scale almost counter intuitively reinforces Hans iconic standing. Think there was this initial surge of. Oh maybe people didn't WanNa Hansel a movie. I think it's kind of the opposite. There's such a strong belief that there was only one hunt yes right. Harrison Ford is Hansel on. This is the only way to do this character that for some people. It was just impossible to bridge that gap and try to embrace any other version of it and understand that I mean. It's a huge shoes to fill the casting process. Certainly fueled that idea Harrison Ford's portrayal. Almost it is impossible to live up to it. Is this gets back to the thing we were talking about earlier. When it's like imagine saying we want to James Dean type we're going for this James Dean Energy and then getting that you're asking lightening strike twice? It'd be very tough to get anybody and be we WANNA Harrison Ford type. You're asking for the Gasol and there's a difference between inspiring other creations in this image and then trying to recreate some earlier unseen alternate alternate version of this actual character and that everybody is aware of to the point that it's almost a folkloric in its in its stature. We know Hans Solo comes mythical whether you know it or not because of ugly every thing he is influenced in general Hans Influence on Humor Within Star Wars Ah Yes can't be overstated and was absolutely essential obviously three. Po is comedic but he's the butt of the joke among human characters. You Take Han out. There's really almost there's no humor at all in a new hope. There's no one to say look at this thing that we're doing isn't this crazy. Inject a a little one into the preceding was a huge balancing factor to encompass the entire emotional range for viewers and that balance has persisted throughout the rest of stalls. Yes us so. Let's take a look at the other stores characters built in Hans Image in terms of humor and beyond. I think we have to start with cartoon cartoon Obi Wan it's actually a great poll and I'll go on there right. Now is a great pool. The only hotter star wars character that Ansaldo Solo cartoon. Ob One check out. Google and get back to me and he did fuck folks Jon. Voight diddy the R. P. Too Literal Goddess Humana. Loris first of all the trolls. Yeah he's like a character the SAS the wheaty sweetie retorts in one liner from clone wars. Obi Wan just so much of that. Han Energy and then Prequel Obiang to the UN McGregor rendition of the character. Maybe you don't love the nature of the writing and the humor in the prequels and that's fine but ob on definitely in Jack's some some of that Han DNA into the prequels. Who's going to be the person trying to lighten the situation about? Who's going to have some sort of sly remark Komo observation about what's going on? How about cary doone briefed cargo from Manakara meets in Cantina good with blaster out searching for her own path through the galaxy not wanting to throw in with the Republican fought for anybody else for that matter? How about KRIEF cargo? Now my God. I know leather jacket. Suave faces the dangers of bounty hunting with with with that kind of cocksure. Isn't this great grin which is surely influenced by the mammoth amounts of spots. This guy is throwing them at at any given time. He literally works in a bar. Yeah it's not it's like it's freaking buffalo oh wings and spot. That's all this guy's e proud tradition though of our introduction being just him luxuriating in the booth at the Cantina I mean conducting inducting his affairs with Han and grief doing business in bars carrots onions and again great outfit fun aside. Carl weathers our friend grief. Cargo actually actually appeared in force ten from navarine from nineteen seventy-eight with Harrison Ford. This was Ford's first posts star wars role and he said he took look it. Well he said at the time that he took it because he wanted to not get typecast as a sci-fi guy in the later on he would say I did it for the money. I respected directed. I respect it very much who else. How about funding Po? Of course both of 'em leather jackets fly boys. Kind of like wise. Cracking king go their own way. Types s pairing fin with Honda directly was great both obviously talented pilots. Rogues who dispense these kind of quick one liners and even the new droid characters like Kato. So yes on through line absolutely drying DNA absolutely lutely and then even Lucan last Jedi has some real Han energy when he sends Sierra Kid. My kid the kid for sure hollow the little like wiping off on the shoulder after the after the amassed attack of these flexing. And you don't think of Lucas Affleck's or anything upon is a flex Absolutely love with the droids that Hun esque element of being unafraid to speak truth to power. Yes and the passing of the jacket from PLO to Finn as soon as the jacket on. You're like oh he's the Han right and and then it passes thin as visual signifier of who has known energy. There's only listen. The Jacket content in the fourth awakens is Han and it is Finn in Po- and that AH tells you all you need to know about who has Hanis speaking of jackets walk us through a bit of the ways in which Hans seeped into the culture culture at large in that archetype influence absolutely. I mean rest of Pop. Culture outside of Star Wars Star Wars absolutely influence the way people ooh thought about fashion the time and hustles each part of that in two thousand fifteen vanity fair article titled How Star Wars Changed The way we dress Valerie Steele the director and chief curator for the Fashion Institute of Technology in your city said Star. Wars had a role quote in renovating the idea of science fiction costume as an influence on fashion. I think stars played a big role in remind people that that indeed could be a really cool source of inspiration while it and obviously Lonestar. Yes some heritage upon Indiana Jones and Hansel almost inextricable from each other because of how much Harrison Ford Persona seems to be asked ask character. We're we're GonNa talk later today about the Indy Han connections a little bit more. But those are you could quivalent argue a case if you wanted to but almost almost in arguably the two most iconic and representative rogue characters and he played them. Both Tom Selleck is sick right now. Now my God really really really set of blue bloods just fucking balling as gripped up in throwing it against floor blue. Buzz was going strong blue. Bloods city he's of the blue. Bloods is trucking along quietly. One of the only consistent forces sources in our lives that was one of the others blue bloods couple other characters and actors. who were clearly influenced by Han? Chris Pine my number two. Chris what now are you serious. Give me your list right now. Chris Ryan Pine Chris Evans. Chris Hemsworth. Why you don't even list Chris Pratt? Yeah Number One. Christopher for Ryan the OJ and Trudeau Jay Wright are Han Solo really occurs bind has said that he based much of his captain. Kirk on in. Huntsville I this is a fascinating star wars star trek connection here pine told I quote. I've always loved that quality about him. Star wars the sense of absolute grumpy lumpy manner. The accidental hero love that phrasing the accidental hero. Not to say I modeled my version of James T kirk on anything in particular but I think I definitely have wanted to bring that kind of Harrison Ford humor to Kirk Wonderful Prince of Persia producer. Ben mattes credited Han as a primary influence silence shouts to the makers of Prince of Persia. That's right you don't get to read this next one after you just starting not. I cried as fine. Fine I'll take this one and then show a little love gory of the Galaxy N. Peter Quill wonder absolutely from Chris Chris Pratt. The biography quotes. Chris Pratt the biographies. I'm sorry I just amazing. You don't have it on your kindle ideal don't add should get it I honestly like parks and REC is yeah is huge is a very important part of all of our lives. Absolutely quote Kevin Kevin Feige idea of who Peter Quill was reportedly lay somewhere between Star Wars Han Solo and back to the futures Marnie MC fly. Amazing Talk. TUCK WE'RE might've fly. was He cool. Some grand was some great night. I the Walkman music that aspect of star Lord it makes sense. He's more of a luke character because he again was like almost hooked up with a relative. I don incredible what else the short lived but utterly Omega Filming Series Firefly could reasonably could reasonably be described like elevator pitches Hans Solo with crew. Sign me up right Nathan billions. Mal Reynolds olds borrows liberally from Han. And the actress Personal Hanin Carbonite action figure can be seen in several shots from the series fun fact for Yeah I have in my possession I love it. A Mel shot. I T shirt which is both a reference to firefly. Hi I'm Han Solo and to the fact that my name is valid. And you as an you being as cold blooded killer hated it At Comic Con Two Thousand Fifteen. Someone ask nate quote. If Malcolm Reynolds and Hansel walks into a bar billion nate I do on that. were on that kind live. We have that kind of relationship you know one of my all time pop culture guilty pleasures Castle Castle is incredible castle stone on your cat each. Oh my God back Ed forever get at me my good friend Steve Slow. Both of you know we watch almost every single episode of castle. The whole conceit is incredible. This guy is an author. Listen the cops are just like yeah let tag along. Maybe he could help. It's dedicated to his craft. Incredible and really great Willie won't they. Oh my God on my all time. Top Five will they. Won't they for pop culture. Sure Castle and Beckett Peter and Olivia from French never by a mile and I don't care lloydpest says about me. Adama Roslin Battle Star Goliath. They'll be there is a lot of mutual respect and some kind of like sublimated simmering heat. Oh my God to an incredible Rishton what else. What else have we might have Juliet and Sawyer from loss probably one? I have to give the rest of the listen thought okay. We're really WANNA dance. GimMe Ladder start. Oh Yeah I mean listen prefer shirt white guy rogue who is extremely handsome whether jacket. That's it that's I don't eat anything else when he goes to get Braun. That's that is you can't be Alessio jacket that flex that was when that was when betty otherwise realize man. We've got a very handsome handsome actor on it. And we have our own nonsol- let's lean act jacket and it was so unreal Stukeley. Well cut for him everything about it. It was a me he just shows up up looking. Great Lebron is like you up on the fucking seaside like this wallace. I'm trying to Mac on lawless. Stoke were the house worth. Come come on and you show up in her like now we gotta go to Dohrn. Listen things ended up all right for Bron- in the end we did fucking master fucking edits anyway. Fill here's another one for you and this is where this is real. This is Real Ryan Reynolds double ourself once told the Los Angeles Times. It's right that Han was quote. One of the touchstones for his portrayal of a superhero. Now you're probably listen to this in thinking we did Ryan. Actually you're probably thinking which Ryan Reynolds which one wasn't point unbelievably. This was not about deadpool but rather green lantern I would say Ryan Reynolds release your other touchstones because I would be fascinated to know what the other ones are. I love this breath. I love it really get that sense of Han is again the irrational confidence idea and that is on display right there. Tessa Asa Thompson yes told the independent in two thousand seventeen tyco with td pitched her the character Valkyrie. Ragnarok as sort of the Han Solo of the movie Maze Authority and yes you totally see it. The way she shows up and is this like hugging space alcohol bottles over her shoulder and then gunning in various aliens down. Oh my God. Here's an interesting one. So Dirk Benedict has called his character from the original Galactica Locka starbuck version of Hans Solo. Though the reason that he was saying this is because he was decrying the gender swap for the character in the Ronald D Moore version the new version of the show he said according to digital spy report which was source to Anorak city quote. I played nykanen character but they turned him into a girl. When you do star wars you don't turn Hans Solo into a girl on a solo? Dirk eggs benedict nick getting scrambled to fly that Katy Sacco starbuck conic. You could make the case that she is. Maybe we need most Hans Solo character other than Han Solo of all time absolutely masterful creation and portrayal Haiti sack off freaking strangle. Strangle me with your flight. Jacket my God what are you hearing starbuck. Nothing but the rain. I fucking Love Battle Star credible they. Maybe I'm just the characters hotshot. I which we mentioned a couple times obviously has inspired so many references and allusions either subtle subtle or overt elsewhere and culture. You've got clerks to have it in serenity. Jay Silent Bob Straight back on and on and on the list goes we wouldn't have really version of Pop culture today without on Solo different absolutely true Jason. Yes Hey your worship your worship. I'm only trying to help. I appreciate fell. Fleas gathered pat on learners head to Janai temple. Teach US everything we know but Harrison Ford's career before he became Han Solo Get your glasses out because this is a juicy one folks McEwen at the two thousand and Thirteen Zurich Film Festival Harrison. Ford was asked if he had any advice for young performers who are intent on pursuing their dream wherever that might take them for. Shockingly if you're familiar with the actors usual usual kind of stick interviews. It's very taciturn. Kind of like drag the answers out of him kind of act four answered thoughtfully and perhaps the fact that he was given a lifetime achievement award by Zurich Film Festival. Put Him on his best behavior. He said quote the one thing I can say is find a way to be useful. Find a way to not insist on your dream. Include your dream include other people in be useful to the process that you wanna be a part of. Don't disdain. It make it work for for you make you work for them. And then you'll find it a lot easier to work your way into the system and Harrison Ford knows what he's talking about by the time star wars made him a star. He had made it work for him by subsidising his acting. With bouts of carpentry by allegedly seen weed and by fostering these is relationships with various people over the course of his early career that would eventually bear fruit and help him on his way to becoming Hans Solo for move to Los Angeles along with his then wife Mary Gary in nineteen sixty four after graduating rippin college in Wisconsin. He and Mary lived out of the spare bedroom of an acquaintance ended theater eventually making in connection that led him to Columbia pictures in those days. Vestiges of the old studio system still remained in place and Ford met with the head of Casting for Columbia pictures who upon seeing some potential in the star put forward on a path after auditions to signing a then industry standard seven ordeal for one hundred fifty periods zero zero dollars a week going to take a long time to pay job back at the life of a contract actor was a very strange one much like Minor League Baseball Studios of the day utilize this system as a way to groom potential stars while handcuffing offing them to cost effective deals. That effectively kept them off the market from working for their competitors image appearance beauty. These things surprised by this system acting chops were at best. A tertiary concern execs worked to mold. Young performance. Into what they thought would be bankable attractive stars for women and the system was cruel and exploitative sexual abuse coercion pressuring actresses for sex in exchange for the promise of work. The so-called casting couch was is endemic on top of that women were also expected in public to dress and behave like ladies. Men were expected to dress and behave like gentlemen quote. I wasn't happy being baby actor. Ford told The New York Times in nineteen seventy seven. It was the old studio star building system. They made me wear a suit and stuff. They were thinking in long terms of changing my personality. Suffice it to say it was a difficult time growing up these attempts to shape Harrison Ford into the mold of performers not name Harrison. Ford seems bizarre today while being interviewed interviewed for two thousand Seventeen Profile Q.. Ford told writer Chris Kief that a studio in which is not specified handed him a picture of Elvis and told him to have his hair done and the king's signature do when told he needed to change his name for it again. He said he trolled the unnamed to you by suggesting the name Kurt affair honestly he could have pulled off quote. It was just the stupidest name I could think of for until G. Q.. I was just fucking with them. His first film appearance is an UN credited. Turn turn is a green jacket. Bellhop in the Nineteen Sixty six crime film dade heat on a Merry go round starring James Coburn his first credited role as Harrison j Ford in order to differentiate him from the silent film star of the same name. And I'm sure you get a mixed up. All the time was in one thousand nine hundred sixty seven b-movie civil war drama time for killing the J. was quickly dropped in subsequent work. There were television roles in the Virginian Union. IRONSIDE MoD squad my friend Tony and the FBI among many others in nineteen sixty eight French new wave director Jacques. Demi wanted an unknown headline his first. I American picture model shop and decided on Ford however the head of Columbia pictures with the time would have been a schneider. Decided Ford had no future is leading man Gary Lockwood best known for playing Frank Pool in two thousand one a space odyssey. That's one old APL on SPEC. He wants that would back. Maybe wants them all again on that one. After about a year and a half under contract Columbia dropped universal came along scooped him up signed him to a similar deal and similarly after about a year and a half dropped him as well. Harrison's career stalled out Ford now a father needed income as we all do so as even casual students students who star wars and all things Harrison. Ford no slanging. That would by which of course I'm eighty two CARBONARI. Legend has it that Ford simply taught ought himself studying up at the cdoe public library gaining practical experience by fixing up the home he had purchased for his growing family in the Hollywood hills. I had a house at the time I wanted to remodel Ford said in a two thousand fourteen reddit. Ama I'd invest money in tools but wouldn't have the money for materials so I realized this was another way of putting food on the table. It's two thousand Seventeen G to profile Ford tells heath that he did have some background for working with his father when he was a kid in their home workshop quote. I knew how to run and the tools I knew how to cut a straight line knew how to screw. Hello he did. He did his first big break in the carpentry game. It was a one hundred thousand dollar job in like nineteen seventy money Neil series money building recording studio for the Brazilian musician. Sergio Mendez yes. In Two Thousand Fifteen Mendez posted a delightful photo of himself flanked by Harrison and Harrison. Screw to facebook with the caption quote. The Force Awakens Before Hans Solo there was a great carpenter named Harrison Ford. And here he is with his crew. The day he finished building my recording. See your back in nineteen seventy. Thank you Harrison. The force be with you. After the Mendez gig hairston became according to legend something like a carpenter to the stars. Okay but suit was actually good at carpentry author chronicler of Nineteen Sixties and Seventies. La Culture. Eve ballots a noted intimate affords. It was unconvinced. Search in. Hollywood eve biographer. Lilia Coats baboots saint quote. I don't I don't think Harrison knew anything about architecture or engineering or anything like that. He built a deck for Joan and John. This is aside Joan. Diddy and John Gregory done so yeah. Apparently the car to the stars thing was pretty legit Oh continues and judd almost killed him because he never finished it done in his nineteen seventy four semi autobiographical novel to now out of print. Vegas a memoir of dark season. Seems to crop rate this writing quote would it started as a two month job stretch into its six month and the construction account was four thousand dollars overdrawn. I fired the contractor. He was out of work entered. His crew sniffed a lot of coke. Well it was the seventies Hollywood's Eve has some incredibly condition quotes on Harrison's side side hustle from Michelle Phillips of Mamas and the Papas fame quote. I didn't even know. Harrison Persson was an actor. I remember getting dragged to Star Wars at ten. AM on a Saturday morning by my stepbrother. Who had done some animation for the movie? I was sitting there watching the screen and all of a sudden Harrison comes on. Well I guess that's my dealer when all the leaves are green. Oh my God. That's unbelievable forward. According to Abbott's apparently transported wears in a quote based Fiddle case which he purchased at Barney's smuggler help. Everyone paid attention to see if they're eas- dealer was in Rizal Skywalker another too good not to share anecdote for Babette's by Eve's Hollywood quote. This one is too much. I can't Oh my God Harrison could fuck nine people day. It's a talent loving nine people. In one day war painting could only do six. Which one of those was his wife? Never Wanna I listen a credit cram for noting this during the research phase for this podcast but this just seems like an unnecessary shot at Warren. Betas is clearly doing fine sixes. Okay so that wrong with actually. Don't unders- I. I'm sorry like I obviously spent a lot of time. Thinking about Harrison for for sexual prowess nine is a lot ninety. Anything else done you'd be you leave the factory period. I think he's quite gifted. And then these are not quick sessions. You be taking and forget about it you be as dry as the service academy nine. Just read shooting dust shock at the end of that. I mean this is Wiltz. Ask Ask man he shot first and ninth the quote continues one time earl. The late Earl McGrath a music producer and art collector a close friend of Harrison's and Harrison. I were taking acid Ala.. Alex and I suddenly decided we had to go home because they were just too many cops around. We drove all the way back to Hollywood. That's it that's just veer. I'll harrison dropping acid at the beach around ninety. These six hundred seventy. That's the anecdote. Amazing holy at the two thousand Thirteen Sin Quest Film Festival. Ford explained his strategy for balancing acting with carpentry and probably selling weed. Allegedly me the quote during about a ten year period. I only did an acting job if it was a better job than I had before it was more ambitious. I three acting jobs. During that period of time they were American graffiti. The conversation and a little piece of work that Stanley Kramer he says Kubrick can university means Kramer did for television called the Court Martial of Lieutenant Kelly. The first two films were of course especially important around this time for it as we mentioned earlier had come to the attention of casting director Fred. reuss who by the early seventies had become an important adviser and mentor to Francis Ford Coppola and by Extension George Lucas quote. I knew really well Rustaveli W in two thousand sixteen. Not only was he an actor. He was a friend and he was doing carpentry work for me when he needed to make extra money year family he had kids. He had really good. We'd smart. I was not attributed. Ruth Harrison was initially offered four hundred and eighty five a week to appear in American graffiti the role that basically changed his career. He declined because as he explained it. Sin Quest US making more than than as a carpenter at that time the bumped it up to five hundred and Ford accepted setting him on the path that would eventually lead him to star wars. I'm still hung up on the nine a day. That's one for every movie in the Star Wars main series. I'm thinking right now of the absolutely exceptional and fleabag season two. When hot prese goes over to her house the other guy yeah comes over and she has to explain the he's he's the guy who made her come nine times? Well I think if you wake up one is like no one is the easiest one get that out of the way now. Yeah even I get boarded nine times I mean sometimes we should make this the nine. Yeah let's roll. Like eight of our favorite moments. One less than Han was capable of pleasure. He the course of a twenty four hour period for the primary fills lately Grad style. You go further. We still make it work for us. He made the eight the eight learning mark. Where we're number? Yeah let's start with a moment. You mentioned earlier. Han and chewy returning to the Millennium Falcon in the Force Awakens Home Ray Fin. BB The eight. They're all already on the ship and then here also wants come in who is it. Door Opens Tana Chewy and that wonderful perfect movie moment went on says she. We were home. The SMIRK yes suppose. And the delivery the true love and affection in his voice chewing the Falcon or two of the great loves of Hans Entire Life. They belong together as we hear him say in Solo and here in this moment we get to see them together at last after after all this time it's wonderful Hans. Relationship with the Falcons is consistently delightful to track across the films of ongoing to win the Falcons from Landau in a game Sabakh in Solo Star Wars Story. Think of him returning to the ship. Here think of everything that happens in between the milestones with the Falcons mark in many of the great milestones in Hans Life. What's more this maybe the purest past future connection the sequel trilogy? Yeah it feels totally organic correct. That's great number. Seven Han rescuing Luke with the Tonton gut trick in empire strikes back smell kiss shelter so on the one hand on responsible for the Death Taunton. He was warned that the creature would not make it through the cold temperatures despite being native beast to this planet he needed to find his friend and I respect it I agree he slices it. Open to shove luke inside of it's warm gots making a Tonton sleeping bag for Luke's hallucinating. ooh What is this. I mean is it so while we more than Tonton. It's an incredibly dope sequence. I'm I'm getting to wield a lightsaber for a second there to cut open the Thanh incredible and wall the science of what Han does there and loop. Somehow for many alive might not track as we'd outlined at length in the empire pod. The gesture tracks. Jason that's right. The gesture tracks stands out still as one of Hans best it is a display of great bravery yes great bravery real danger and great ingenuity that ability to just think on the fly. Of course friendship pure French. It's wonderful severely temperatures dropping rapidly. That's right in my friends out it. You tonton will freeze before you reach the first marker. They'll see you in L. mazing we're all L.. Beginning lead nine times a day. What a King so circles the hell but some less chances of survival were seven hundred just twenty five to one God but Han did it juxtaposed against the constant reminders? Early Empire that Han is trying to leave echo base to go deal with the debt that he owes Java. Ah this kind of moment reminds us that Han doesn't have to do this stuff. His selflessness is rarer and it is also more meaningful when he does it same goes for the equal wonderful moment shortly after the sequence when on focuses above all on getting Laya safely out of Echo Bay whether crucial part of the Tonton sequences of course the Medical Bay group flirtation that follows. Well your worship can't have one without the other so thank you walk Wocka. I love that sequence so much number six han talking to you means old Ben could be could possibly be about the the force in a new home. Mogi religions in ancient weapons are no match for good blaster kid. You don't believe in the force do you. Kid I've flown from one inside of this galaxy together. I've seen a lot of strange stuff but I've never seen anything to make me believe there's one all powerful force controlling everything. There's no miskel energy feel controls my destiny. It's all a lot of simple tricks and nonsense now. This moment orients US holy regarding who on really was when he entered our lives and when he joined this story what he represents about the wider galaxy outside of the HIVE Dave Mind in importantly about our own skepticism. The skepticism that we as audience members might have entering that story and it positions on crucially as a friendly foil but a foil. Unless in the sense for Luke and OBI Wan a true believer and a true believer in the making it's also crucial marker for establishing Han as a comparison for himself as he evolves both within this and across the franchise and thinking about Han telling Finn Unquote. That's not how this works of. Force Awakens it which is great truly. Mind Boggling I mean you think about where he's come from or telling right it's true the force the jet I all. It's all true. Those moments aren't possible without this first moment. Everything else stems from it. I love it. I love thinking about how Han matures number five. Of course never shout never told me at three PM. Fire to the possibility of successfully advocating an asteroid three thousand seven hundred and fifty to one. Ever tell me the odds. Never tell me the odds never do it. Never never never tell me the him off there obviously on of great moments in the Falcon cockpit including the absolutely exceptional. Sorry Sweetheart I haven't than got time for anything else moment just a touch later in this film again Star Wars. Maybe for kids. But it's so clear that Han Fox in moments like this. Who but this right here? The time of the ADS line. It's just unrivaled king. Shit from high near futilely one of the most quotable and most oft oft-quoted lines in Star Wars history. It's a moment that drips with cool is reckless young yet. It's absolutely. It's the kind of instant Association Association we make with these disparate threads that altogether form the holistic image of a super cool guy all these years later willing and able able to do what mere mortals could not even imagine threat and it builds more than Hans. Legend bills. The Falcons too. It gives us trust that the ship and its pilot can always find underway to persevere choice crucial and number four on returning to battle the desk and a new. It's not only the credible log. In one of the most important and innovative action sequences in film history but obviously an elemental the moment to for Hans Character Arc and his relationships with Lucan land forming a trio. He does not have to come back absolutely. He's already left. He's already said his goodbyes. He's had those painful moments. He chooses to come back. And despite that gruff exterior. Not Score off. Because we don't want him but exterior he a little bit of a Danny Giora. Elementary no has gentle art gentle heart and he may not be ever the card carrying pamphlet dispensing true believer in the cause but he cares about the people in his life who affect him and make an impact on me cares about look he cares about. Yeah he cares about trying to protect them and help them. It's a moment that encompasses Hans multitudes he is bolt he Skilled he is a rogue is reckless. He's kind he selfish neither fighter and a protector all at once on the heels of the really crushing farewell L. Secrets for the battle. All right. We'll take care of on. I guess that's what you're best at. Isn't it man. Hey Luke the force be with you. This return in the trio's joyful joyful reunion after the fact sores all the higher wonderful. He's just walking sexy contradiction. Three on shooting shot I on on shoot ingredient. Shot I at the most Eisley Cantina under new hope reminded body just could as that kind call. ooh possibly the most talked about on. So we'll moment of all time for the reasons outlined for not the reasons. Gee what you know. The constant fiddling has obviously in some ways undermined mind this moment because nobody even does. which scene has the integrity to be the actual final version of it at this point anymore but in other ultimately I think weightier ways it has breathed all of this extra life into the legend of that moment and made it something that almost exists obviously tether to but also separate from sorry for Star Wars? The whole mostly Cantina sequence is far as Han is considered a masterclass. It's our introduction adoption to him and what an important introduction it is and he owns that sequence oozing confidence oozing bravado. You've never heard of the Millennium Falcons. Should I have. And then he boasts about the less than twelve Parsa. Kesselman haggling for a steeper rate for himself in his copilot. And then the smooth criminal aspect of this entire change with Guido picking at the wall as has got a gun on him leaning back feigning absolute the comfort and disdain almost casualness before the eventual cold blooded killing side Beta. This marked th one one of the most stubborn pop culture debatable. Time still remarkably unending incredibly that. It's unending still but the the real star is in the order of blaster astles. It's Hans Demeanor and we understand that disposition right away yes number two. This is a sad one touching his son. Ben's face ace right is he's about to die in the weekends so Kazadi on the other end of the emotional spectrum. From some of these other Han moments we have Hans death this really poetic perfect book and to reinforce how complex he ultimately was as a character and as a figure showers. you in some ways. He's just the simplest man in the story. He wants to flirt. He wants to fly a fast ship wants to be with his pals but in other really lasting ways the impression we're left with is about his soul about his heart. He wanted to be a better man even he often implied and wanted people to think otherwise. But he just couldn't always find a way to be and that is tragic and in as relatable as anything else in that story and this moment with Ban when Kyle kills him comes shortly on the heels of another extremely emotional reunion in the same film with Laya also a contender for this list in and of itself the way that losing their Jon pushed them apart but also still connects them in the love that binds them. Still wonderful part of this character and a wonderful thing to see it would have been easy. Yes Ascend Han off off in some kind of gun battle. Blaze of glory flying that Millennium Falcon Somehow this quieter gentler death focused on his humanity shortcomings comings and not the flash in an easy surprising and powerful choice. I think there's again the the evolution of the characters the character shows up seemingly without any connections to anybody except his copilot and ship and then suddenly here undone in a really uncharacteristically quiet moment by a connection that he has to another person and when he can't deny the whole scene is shattering with the moment when Han reaches out to Cup ben's face after been established this ad perfect and there's The ben shall sheds leads to the exchange. He didn't need to do it he yeah he could've left. All the charges blow the base and leave but he wanted to reconnect with his son and pull him back toward the light. Honda with a good heart went out and this moment ultimately helps pull Ben Back in episode nine crushing every time crushing but there can only be one number one. That's right and it's on saying I know you're Laya says I love you in empire. I love you improvised line. Incredible blacks utterly iconic the perfect blend of an embodiment. aww Hans sexiness. His smugness his charm. All of it together ruined generations of young men. This this one scene. It is honestly one of the sexiest things in the history of time. It really really is. It's like Jordan taking off from the free throw line like like Michael Jordan do that. Don't try away God. It's amazing also right before the iconic line he makes his impassioned plea Ashley Ashutosh protect layer and kisses her with real Paschel. He's not just swab here. He shows a lot of tenderness real heart. And of course he's gotTa get frozen in the Carbonite Urbanites Lucas on his way to battle vader. WHO BY THE WAY Hon? Instinctively and fearlessly fired his blaster at moments prior to this there on in cloud city. There's a lot on the line for here including his actualized yet at the very least as admiral life but he still manages to exude that signature signature charisma and courage under fire. God He is walking sex after nine times. Can you walk. That's all the carbonate is for healing. Dick Grasso load management indeed choosing to manage. We're low deficit Jason. Yes you like me. Because I'm a scoundrel in that's insightful. Just like today's winner every episode. We're going to honor honor the character person rally. The troops advanced causing today. The winner of our medal of bravery is Harrison Ford King of the rogue. WHO's the MORIKAWA? Our economy characters and Hans Solar is an Indiana Jones. Whichever side of the debate? You land on you have to tip your cap or your blaster or whatever to the actor who portrayed both of them. Harrison Ford unbelievable unbelievable imagine getting to boast about plane to of the sexiest most charming gun or whip swinging in the history. Three of cinema. Actually crazy shouts down Celik. who had this role was contractually obligated to appear in Magnum? Pi and then had to drop out clearing the way once again for Harrison Ford and for blue bloods chasa salubrious. Yes how closely aligned are haunting indie well beyond just the idea of the rogue. There is a very popular Internet theory that indies entire saga is Hans Fever Dream while he is encased in carpet. Okay this is a fan theory thing on the Internet. If you're eager to learn more about this and export at length we would recommend checking out the Indiana Jones minute breakdown. They attack this theory with expert Madison. Very Fun thing to dive into online Harrison Ford may not have shied away from mocking star. Wars he did it all. It's never get quote. You can type this shit. But you sure can't say it comment about George Lucas Dialogue Harrison Ford hated it before anybody the two of his signatures and two of pop culture's most iconic characters and despite those jobs he knows that playing these icons is a rare are thrill. Remember the gem of a quote we shared during our force awakens pod from Brian Heights Rolling Stone feature on the film quote. I could have felt silly to be my age prancing around around in high boots and a gun belt with a guy in the hair suit but I didn't I love the work. I like playing different kinds of characters. Like it's no big fucking deal. That's what I do. Just a legend an absolute legend. Here's Harrison Ford literally the sexiest person. IMDB from starting in nineteen seventy seven. Just quickly this is only highlights. They're all highlights. I mean it really star wars apocalypse now empire strikes back. Heard heard of it raiders of the lost Ark Bladerunner. Those three bad hundreds of the Jet Empire Raiders and blame her three years in a row. Is Untidy twenty year run. It runs within the runs. Return of the Jedi Indiana Jones and the temple doom racist movie witness yes. Mosquito coast mosquito. Ghost was his one for me. That crazy frantic which I love. Working girl underrated agree on the Gills and the last crusade presumed innocent regarding Henry which I stand for regarding him Patriot Games the fugitive clear and present danger. Sabrina which is like a really underrated. Air Force One. I don't even know what to say about this. It's an incredible run. That we'll honestly never be equaled. Never is a Lord Lord. Well sorry sweethearts. We haven't got time for anything else. As is Zack. Cram are indispensable producer and researcher are reminding us we hope you had as much fun as we did today that your whereas excited as we are to hop back onto the speeder and continue to explore the galaxy. So we're not on yet. They will join us again next time as binge mood star wars continues this until then laugh it up fuzzball. Hello you're carpenter. Yeah I'm here to start work on your deck. I've got all the wood in the back back. You can just let me in. We're going to put all this stuff. Ma'am you're right.