13 Episode results for "Greg rogers"

Whats Next for Direct Listings and IPOs?

Exchanges at Goldman Sachs

25:53 min | 1 year ago

Whats Next for Direct Listings and IPOs?

"Goldman Sachs where we discussed developments currently shaping markets industries in the global economy. Today we're going to be talking about a timely topic it's the public markets direct listings This is exchanged Barry McCarthy who's the CFO spotify who's the real trailblazer in leading the spotify direct listing which was the first major companies to use that approach and Goldman Sachs I'm joined by we'll go from the far side to the nearside Greg Rogers's partner Latham and Watkins has been council on the two major public listings with those the foresight to fund long-term vision so David given the market backup you describe why is there interest right now in different ways of helping company review of how we got here took a little bit about the history of public markets in thirty seconds or less and evolution of the last couple years Wendy's from the venture capital corporate and Private Equity Communities this settings actually become one of the key events that allows those companies who are driving disruption to connect the network equity capital markets with David here in sacks to talk all things direct listings. Listen into that conversation next all right thank you I'm Jake Siewert to keep it short and we won't start with a mutual fund in nineteen twenty four or anything like that but the reality is you know companies have been listening in public markets for hundreds of years and Goldman Sachs been helping companies David Welcome to the program eventually so last week we hosted a conference at Las Vegas that brings together private companies with investors in the space explain a little bit about what that didn't last week at our conference in Las Vegas. I sat down with Barry McCarthy. CFO of spotify Greg Rogers partly them in Watkins and we'll Connolly who works in list or or succeed in the public markets for over one hundred years but the reality over that period of time a lot of things have changed so markets have changed information availabilities changed just a just a true IPO and for decades the IPO has been the primary avenue for is the debut in the public markets and raise capital the extent necessary but the needs of a lot correct listing and ultimately seeking the pathway the bestest she's objectives well David thanks for that introduction and thanks for joining us today my pleasure being here as David mentioned as of ultimately changed and so what we've been focused on how do we help companies list in the way that is best suited for them and so when you think about the IPO the I'd fits is and why we host it absolutely this is our ninth annual private intimate company conference where we gathered the next generation emerging technology companies together with over five hundred little availabilities changed and businesses have changed as well and so you have businesses with the benefit of technology that built to scale much more quickly than they could connelly who runs technology equity capital markets at Goldman Sachs thank you all for coming and we'll I'll just turn it over to you to do a sort of broad does evolve with greater customization focus on transparency and removal of the frictions that our clients are focused on but at the same time we're very excited about the new past phases emerged over the last handful years most notably in the last couple of years the direct listing which we discussed in depth pick this year and Goldman's been really in the past and you've also had several companies that have made the choice to raise a significantly greater amount of capital on the private markets than they would have ever done before and his approach and to the public markets so jake when you think about the continuous evolution the equity market and some of the step function happened over the last decade there has to be different alternate objectives were achieved over the course of those processes and we expect to be at the forefront of continuing ovation in the months and years to come and believe that companies entering the public market should be considering crowd we serve the lead adviser and the first to reckless things spotify and slack both of those were very successful in how those companies debuted on the public market and each one of our clients against that backdrop company's needs and objectives are changing and when those needs and objectives change it makes sense that people would seek out new ways to enter the public markets and seek out a more diverse set of approaches to enable them to be successful against their objectives and I think from our perspective you know we have the unique opportunity to work with spotify and slack as the lead adviser on their direct listings over the course of the last couple years and we're thrilled for their success and bury a particular in really being innovative the matters and so I think that's fantastic and in particular we couldn't have two better people to talk about it with this group here today Berry is the visionary and the vanguard and a Lotta people have perspectives and it's getting a lot of discussion right now which is great it's put a new rigor on the process we're thinking around going public across a wide range of but Council of Goldman Sachs around slack has really played a leading role in creating the legal framework and evolving the legal frameworks talk about evolution to make this a successful I behind this new technology if you will and were excited about the opportunity to continue to seek innovation on behalf of our clients I think the interesting is a fascinating topic point two billion of revenue we had one point seven billion of net cash on the balance sheet and we had seventy one million subs invader was I just took a an old tired idea that he already existed in the public markets and we crafted it and applied and and really had the foresight and confidence to believe you could do something a different way and that successfully and Greg who served as both council to bear in the spotify him for companies to consider Berry you've the trailblazer of the pioneer. What gave you the confidence to know those obviously risky to do it but we'll give you the conference the right thing to do for spotify you've been CFO to another public company maybe that perspective inform your decision what the objectives you're trying to achieve for to attack IPO and you know I was smart enough to turn to Greg and say to this for me no no direct listing so when the entire management team we got to put it up on the web and make it simultaneously available everybody in the world at the same time Inc. we had something like twenty seven exactly the same way every day and so when we looked at the companies that have gone up particularly transactions over a billion dollars it looked thirteen million dollars cash on the balance and then that was in two thousand two and two thousand ten when I left for that county year there were twenty one million subs and so I realized that it was one of those Dorothy we're not in Kansas anymore moments for a long time I have watched the public market and thought that it was took Netflix the twelve months prior to going public I think we had six hundred thousand subs seventy one million revenue thousand streams in that first day when we put it up there we had educational videos about how the business model work through we use the power of the web to help honestly broken and I thought surely there must be a better way so there a couple of things I was trying to awkward when is it's just an IPO without the Oh and we had a billion bowl engage in the process and then lastly wanted market based price discovery and every stock including direct listening stocks uh-huh cash which we couldn't even begin to deploy at the time so if we'd gone public we would've sold twelve to fifteen percent of the market captain we're going to have the liquid secondary markets that would have been one and a half two and a half billion dollar transaction for what to we want liquidity in a traditional process everybody gets locked up per the buy it based on the way you locate your time but you can't prevent others from owning the stock once it becomes public I would say related insight is that the long term time we wanted them to have the opportunity to get liquid same time other shareholders were able to get liquid three we had this core value around radical transparency the staff graciously agreed to work with us to allow us to both give God didn't and the host and investor day if you want to understand what the best practices for dealing with the process lockups is one of them got hedge funds shorting into the lockup expiration there's market-stabilization artificially limiting the demand in order spoke two billion in revenue one hundred fifty million of cash negative debt when we were thinking about taking spotify public we had pin absolutely transparent with our private shareholders who wanted to take the same approach with public shareholders and there's this quiet period that imposed by thirty three when you're going public astor's look to the public market public market companies don't have road shows they have industrial base and they present the entire strategy over three or four hours they investors got to see one hundred eighty days maybe that lock staggered violated a core principle Russ we had twenty one hundred zero we had employees who had on this for a long period average-sized trade in Netflix from two thousand to two thousand ten just dove for the floor even as the total volume increased dramatically and it's because the to that let me just suck up to my host and say no Goldman Sachs no spotify because every step of the way they were there to lead the financings and into the public marketplace and SEC approaching this phenomenon and particularly says it starts to maybe take off next year and what should companies be thinking about in terms of their risk directly finding librium leg and that is in fact what happened which is why we get to sit up here today you talk about having the market decide the the getting versus IPO spotify came around at exactly the right time in the sort of regulatory regime we've got very lucky with Berry being an innovator agency traders are now part of the game and it's the momentum guys in high frequency guys who set the price so go spend time with the big guys because one a ton of work to work out the details and spotify took about a year roughly from start to finish normal way IPO is more like six months that incremental time was spent working out details with staff among several work streams disclosure would look like we did read him that's market we're on your stock price none because they don't participate in the price-setting mechanism they're sitting out the dance so I watched over time and rent price increase on the first day of trading the close on the first day of trading as compared with the issue price so there's all this friction that gets introduced the best you can hope to do is go spend time with people think are really smart and convince them that they ought to own the stock too so you can Kurd some people it varies boss Daniel Zeno disruptor in his business but over on the SEC side we got sort of lucky the chairman of the SEC Jay Clayton is an six deal guy himself the head of corporate finance guy named Bill Hinman use a guy from the valley so from a very top down perspective we got ask for the issue or yes that's still wide open you know we haven't had any jurisprudence that would test the relative liability regimes I personally think that on an apples to apples basis in you gotta make some assumptions right because the normal IPO would be fifteen to twenty percent probably hope your stock price at one Greg Council spotify council the Goldman on the slack direct listing Barry mentioned sec allowed things house holders that the banks are going to encourage you to spend your time with Fidelity and T. Rowe and others who are going to buy the stock and put it away on the shelf have no influence whatsoever support for trying to do something new that sort of the good news the bad news is the SEC's mandate is to protect the small investor so once we got buying at the high level slack traded like thirty percent on the first day so it's more shares trading more shares theoretically more reliability but the direct listening as a few good things going trace which is the second advantage I'll get to very few actual registered sales to the tracing point a plaintiff should in theory have to make a registration related claim trace its manipulation rulemaking the NYC required its own rulemaking now the good news for the people in this room is we were involved in meeting literally today in Washington DC where one of the yes and deciding who gets the shares most people in this room have had the ability so far to choose their shareholders and choose their prices what's that transition like and direct listing the whole pre listing float becomes available many of those sales were happening under rule one forty four are litigators like tracing argument there and as long as you know the you know the secret sauce you should be fine if you go that route so the documentation similar but what are the trade offs from a legal perspective gradations in the regulators referred to the way that spotify and slack did their listings as the old way and it's totally fine so too is now a playbook we can follow ester participation investors who talked to us after spotify direct listing and said that was a difficult process for us we don't know how to get our arms around it we didn't feel comfortable take one in ten chance of having successful offering that success offering defined by the bank would vary a little bit by bank would be something like twenty seven to thirty this where cheap so the first to direct listings were definitely successful and that's why you'll see more of them one of the interesting things about first to the second is we did see in some respects shifted as a public company you don't have any control over who your share bazaar and if you think you're going to you need to lie down till the thought passes and get back up By a lot of stocks we get a good return on investment of time to their super smart they have great insights you'll learn a lot those will be more enjoyable meetings but don't do it because you think it will the price and it just shit I had this core belief that wisdom of crowds trump's experts and if we just eliminate friction and get out of the way the marketplace would on our roadshow and go see all the potential sellers and all the potential buyers and have multiple meetings to help inform both sides of the market how market's going to develop an informed market will play lead to direct listings were hands down successful Barry walked through his objectives and those objectives were

Goldman Sachs spotify CFO David Welcome Greg Rogers Barry McCarthy Watkins Las Vegas Private Equity Communities Jake Siewert partner Wendy Latham Connolly thirteen million dollars one hundred eighty days one hundred years
Do-si-don't! - 154

The How-To Heretic

1:13:33 hr | 11 months ago

Do-si-don't! - 154

"Pool. Welcome friends how to heretic. Kamarck and I'm Dan. I'm doug and this is your user's guide to life on the outside. That's right. Leaving religion is the first step into a larger better world of A. It can also be a scary world things differently now, who never fear that's why we're here we're your audio. And with help from good friends and experts and all sorts of fields, we're going to share the stories and seek the knowledge to build a great life after all, you only get the one that we know. Better. Well guys. Hello. We we have a show that has music. Yeah. We have a show that has a letter. And yes mercifully short book and we have a show that has a whole nother crazy thing. Yeah I'm I'm. GonNa talk about. You know the dance but really my greatest passion. I'm before you get to that. I'm going to start us off with a very short letter with a lot of bad stuff in it in a book with a lot of bad stuff in it. Why is anyone still reading it Yup? Yeah and I am going to right now issue a bit of a trigger warning because by the at the end, we're going to bring our friend. Greg Rogers on who is going to talk to us about human trafficking, and we will discuss issues like child, sexual abuse, and pornography, and stuff like that, and he is our own our our very own secret agent man with, and he knows of what he speaks but it is there some kind of rough parts of the conversation. So if but also he's a delightful fella and yet worth the listen. So very interesting stuff Yahama up. So join US won't you side of whatever this? Uncle Dan Hey we've we've talked on this show about the fact that we we all have rub backgrounds in religion. And such an and into that end, there are moments of my childhood by which by no fault of my own when they make the movie about my life. I would prefer that they started in my late twenties. I've already sold a screenplay dog does. Is Too late the. DARTH Vader I WANNA show up fully formed. Don't need to know about my past. Well Mark you've got some some things that could probably dovetailed with my embarrassing well. Before we get there, I want to make some very important points. As. We've discussed many times before you guys. When we started this podcast, it was originally going to be about my passion for people who are passionate about fantasy sports to remember that. Oh Yeah We I, just remember the hours and hours of of. Brainstorming over over titles. Uncle Mark I think is where we settled. I. Don't mean we're going make fantasy sports league PODCAST PA-. Fantasy. Sports Leagues a lot of us in their podcast. We were going to make a podcast about. Of youtubers who make fantasy sports, leagues, kind of Dream Team that dreams about Dream Team's if you will. But you guys vetoed me on the admittedly reasonable grounds that I don't know anything about sports fantasy or otherwise normal the people who know enough about sports fantasize about them or even U2 but. You did make me a solemn promise together. We swore a ton teen under the watchful eye of Pope Levi the unclean, our resident stuffed weasel. that. On a date of my choosing, I could take over the show and indulge in my second greatest passion. So it is today we will do our salute to American folk dance. dammit. Cody. Foiled again, cody put crowd. Cheers over patriotic music here. Yes. Could people. Today, we salute what may be seen worldwide as the most. Iconic American of all the great American folk dances, the Swear Dad's Oh i. got it. Wrong. What were you GonNa? Say said Twerk Oh did well, it should be was the twerk at. I think after this segment you're you'll hope that you wish that it was the torque the river dances is Irish right it. River I. Think is universal. What about what about the Forbidden Dance? Well, it's forbidden for reason done can we can't discuss it here? Yeah. So the square dance as. Many of our American listeners, myself included inexplicably found themselves participating in their. School. And that was because a man who very much admired Hitler and who've Hitler. Admired back made God. Damn. Sure. We had to so. Take. Your partner by the hand and let's allemand right down to crazy town. To See maybe that dose he does really more of a dose don't. So in the late teens and early twenties, a lot of things were sweeping the American landscape I mean late nineteenth and early nineteen twenties none of fucking garbage where now. A. Lot of World War One veterans with severe cases of what would one day come to be known as PTSD were all abroad in the land shell shock shell shocked the deadly Spanish flu was rampant. There was rampant racist terrorism of the Ku Klux. Klan. So I guess it is the time very much like today. A general sort of folksy racism overall and of course, at that time. Jazz now, who skunk Don from here in this idyllic placid. Year of twenty twenty, most Americans would look very fondly at both square dancing jazz as both quintessentially American? Art Forms. With jazz being I think obviously the much cooler far more influential. And Square dancing being acquaint western inflected oddity much beloved by people of generations much older than their grandparents. But back in the increasingly licentious pre great depression days of the Roaring Twenty S. Not everyone saw as we see it today three. And One person who very much did not see it that way was the son of William and Mary Ford who went by the name Henry Yes that's right the founder of the Ford Motor Company, the inventor of the modern assembly line and one of the most important industrialists in were world history. Henry Ford. Did Not care for the jazz not one bent was it because he hated black people? Yes. Kinda. Okay. It was really more because he hated at I mean hated the juice. That's right Oh that's right. Ford despise the amazingly inventive sexy amazingly fun improvisational music inextricably connected to black America peak Z. aided the Jews does he does he just kind of hate like the transit of property hates anything That sounds like Jews. Suggest that was it because Jay juice. Orange juice or maybe I was there a period? was there a an undercurrent of Jewish jazz that I just don't know about there is a connection. There is a connection in American jazz between Jews and black people, and it really has more to do with kind of Jewish musicians. Being heavily influenced by it, and then you can look like Klezmer music, which definitely has some some influence on what became American jazz but Klezmer music can be improvisational in some of the same way as the jazz is that's interesting. Yeah. But it's never none of those reasons not right. Does bigotry ever have to make some kind of sense never but Let's take a gander at his attempt to put some method behind this madness. Showy. Ford bought a newspaper called the Dearborn Michigan independent mostly as a vehicle for publishing the hideous protocols of the Elders of Zion. In serialized form now, we won't waste time with what those are here. You can go back and listen to episode forty nine where we did a deep dive into that they're horrendous. But he used the paper to generally vent his racist spleen as a Godly White Christian Richmond. In nineteen twenty one he wrote in his paper it is the purpose of this article to put people in possession of the truth concerning the Moron music. which they habitually husband saying. Day and night. And if possible to help them see the invisible Jewish baton, which is waived above them for the four financial propaganda purposes. Just as. Just as American stage and motion picture have fallen under the control of the Jews and their art destroying commercialism. This is from a huge businessman, which is hilarious. So yeah, the business of handling popular songs has become a Yiddish industry. The Jews who captured it in the early days of exploitation were for the most part russian-born. Some of whom had personal pass, which were unsavory as the of many Jewish theatrical movie leaders have been exposed to be. So Nice. Guy. Wow Is even better. What's Nice is that all the evidence that he's provides so much evidences. It's so well cited much by like. So Ford also wrote a three volume book and distributed five hundred thousand copies of it for free. See if you can detect what it might be about from this obscure title Fellas, the International Jew in which. We find this enlightening paragraph. Many people have wondered whence comes the waves upon waves of musical slush that invade decent homes and set the young people of this generation in imitating drivel of morons popular music is a Jewish monopoly. Monopoly Jazz, Jewish creation, the Mesh, the slush, the slice suggestion. The abandoned sensuousness of sliding notes are Jewish origin. And you had to abandoned sensuousness. Continues Really. Really picks up here. Monkey Talk Jungle squeals, grunts, and squeaks and gasps suggestive calf love are camouflaged by a few feverish notes and admitted in homes where the thing itself unaided by scandal music would be stamped out in horror. The fluttering music sheets disclose expressions taken directly from the Cesspool of modern capitals to be made the daily slang the thoughtlessly a humdrum marks of school boys and girls until I need to listen to more Jazz Dad, right do Henry Ford must've been awesome at parties. He's probably was a hell of hoot. So. Really smart move in some ways and really stupid in in some important ways as well. Henry. Ford was convinced that jazz was actually not the invention of black Americans, but rather the Jews who used it to promote liquor laziness and sex among black Americans who Henry Ford considered too stupid to resist the Siren Call of the trumpet, the Clarinet and the upright base. And Ford plenty of admirers and devotees in this country and beyond. As I mentioned my tortuous intro Ford very much admired one Mr. Hitler who very much admired him back in fact, Henry Ford is the only American to be mentioned by name in Hitler's credit crazy Mein Kampf. And in a very fan girl terms, Henry Adolf spent most evenings in the nineteen thirties saying you hang up. No, you hang up. into their candlestick phones at either end of the transatlantic cable right up until the US. Declared War on Germany the day after Pearl Harbor when Ford changed his tune. Now. He didn't suddenly develop a functional soul in a sense of shame for all the evil he had supported and published he just knew being pro Third Reich would be bad for business. So he never recounted his frosting antisemitism. He did apologize really roundabout way for publishing the protocols but never being. went to his deathbed deathbed as. Crazy person. To be fair as possible to this shit bag, he did become one of the leading producers of war hardware during World War Two. Eventually turning out to be twenty four every hour. So cool. But just which I'm sure he did for he did for free for out of patriotism right. WHO KNOWS PRO property rights? But just to put an oily orange twist on Ford his dearest friend Hitler. Donald John Trump who was introduced at the Republican National Convention as Donald John President by one of Myers. I've visited A. See that audit. when he visited a Ford Motor Plant in Michigan just this year out of nowhere he started his slurred speech thusly. The the company founded by a man named Henry Ford good bloodlines good bloodlines. If you believe in that stuff, you got good blood. Even with everything this idiot has said and done since he got his is elevator. escalator repaired so he could ride down it. That one had me picking my job off the floor. Ed just past just washed away anyway. Back to the roaring twenties Ford convinced. Convinced that Bolshevist Jews had duped lazy blacks into becoming insanely brilliant. Jazz Artis. Drunken Lazy while also corrupting the Flower of White American youth who are having a ball sneaking into speak easy's drink bathtub hooch and listen to jazz. He cast about for something of equally powerful cultural draw and lure to pull the young people away from the jewelry African decadence and despoilment. and. What cool thing did this genius manufacturing and marketing it upon it's going to be good square dancing. fucking square dancing. That's right to counter the jazz craze that was positively sweeping the country and major cities all around the world. For, decided to hold a barn dance. In one, thousand, nine, hundred, thousand, three he bought a hotel hired a guy to teach square dancing there. And it turned out it was fairly popular with the guest, but they were all old white people singing Henry, Ford? So hotel. So. This all jazzed I, mean not jazzed. Anti Semitic enthused. To take his message to a bigger barn. So in one, thousand, nine, hundred, thousand, three, he published a wonderful little book called Good Morning After Asleep of twenty five years old fashioned dancing is being revived by Mr and Mrs Henry Ford. Love the name of that book off the tongue. Rose right off the. So with all the money in fervor, he had used to send out hundreds of thousands of copies of the International Jew. He set forth to pour his wholesome vision of squeaky clean white boys and girls round e rounding each other to an old fiddle and Banjo version of Turkey in the straw across the land. Because because the truth of the matter is that you don't the way to counteract moron. Music is. Do. We really was a master in marketing wasn't. So equally culturally panic bigots across the country took up the charge forming clubs to act as pressure groups and were soon, not only lobbying their children to go down to the hoedown and Chase Lee kick up their boots but they were also lobbying their state and local legislators at school districts to force old fashioned social dancing into the schools. And with Ford seemingly endless resources and influence behind them, they fucking did it. So from the Mid Nineteen, twenty s all the way to check my notes now, schools all over the country all over the US adopted square dancing as part of their phys ED standards. Oh my God millions of puzzled American kids showed up for gym class thinking they were going to get brained dodgeball yet again. Only to find themselves standing in a line facing a line of kids of the opposite sex and trying to figure out what an almond was, what the fuck rollaway to a half Sh- has. Shaken mean and what in the world boxing the NAT which is an actual move could be referring to. So even though square dancing has wayne to something near extinction in schools, there are plenty of kids still doing it in class I watched some videos on Youtube from this year in states like California with middle and high school kids. Square dancing in in their school gyms. And you know what's crazy they look like they're having fun for the most part. However awkwardly right. The Old Hetero? Normative Hetero normativity. That's a word. And General Enforcement Aside. It is a very social dance for him everybody kind of dances with everyone. Sure. Rather than one on one kids in the video say how cool it was to meet and dance with people. They never would have had a reason to talk to in school and in a weird way. It is a really equalizing democratic activity. And some of the American. Minds one a little bit of the old courtly dances that that used to happen where a guy. or whatever where everybody's sort of was required to sort of switch partners, partway through continually switching partners just so everyone got to know everybody and that's kind of the roots of the actual dance, right? Not The music, but the actual dance comes from those. And some of that that music is actually incredibly found this great album of old time just instrumental square dancing music. It's fantastic. By the way Gary Mind is a typeface not dance. I don't know what I'm actually thinking of, but I was I just want to put it out there that I realized that I said a word that wasn't the right. It sounded like a word doesn't it sound like a dance? It should be a square dance. And, say, if you haven't seen a gym full of second graders concentrating with all, their might to remember the moves as they danced to square dance. It is fucking adorable. It's super cute so It's good that it's fun. A little bit of exercise helps break down the barriers, abs of social cliques in middle school, which can be awful. But none of those were the intended purpose. The purpose was to wage a culture war against a non-existent Jewish international conspiracy to mentally enslave indolent black people. In order to destroy the White Christian American order and defile its most precious property, white female virtue that's it, and literally tens of billions of US unwittingly precip participated in this evil feverish Jihad. That haunted Henry Ford's hateful dreams. Unless we, it's all over. The. Square dancing jihadist that took Ford's dream and ran with it are still at it and I'm not saying all of them, a racist or anti Semites of course, and probably most of them likely have no idea. The cause they're fighting for was born under that vital sign right. But in addition to schools still teach still teaching square dancing twenty eight states were badgered into making square dancing their official state dance by this effort. And lest you think this was done back in Gio tiny days. The bulk of states adopted it after one, thousand, nine, hundred, ninety what my God. Yeah. Fifty three years after Ford. died and fifty five years after his bff Hitler. Missouri declared it in one, thousand, nine, hundred, five, Nebraska Nineteen, ninety-seven, South Carolina and Utah in one, thousand, nine, hundred four. But whatever we both suck. But Virginia adopted in two thousand eleven. Oh. My God. There are so many types of American folk dance. and modern dances from all over the place. But the square dancers absolutely demand. They're chased traditionally white dance for and be recognized to the exclusion of all others. Given the history I've laid out can't, but look on these continued efforts with a jaundiced eye, right? But. Here's the funny thing that pretty much every every form of American music is black music and I'm not wrong. Fi they jazz blues ragtime rock and Roll Hip obviously and yes even bluegrass and country Banjo was invented by slave black people here. So shut the fuck up. When Mark Railroad here at the. Cultural floor of the African American History Museum in Washington DC. And it's it's every bit everything from Michael Jackson's glove to Chuck Berry's Cadillac. And after just like you have. Two or three hours like okay. Okay. I get it. Yeah. Okay. I suck it. You guys invented all the things. And then you go down to the sports floor and you're not going to feel better about yourself. So Ford thought he found a lily. White dance. From. Sorry find a lily white dance forum with which to wage culture war. Against the scourge of Jewish and Black Jazz, and while it's true that the square dance itself is derived from European forms of dance various typefaces according to Dan brought to the Americas by white colonizers. By the way it was, it was the Galley Yard that I was thinking of thank God golic straighten that out. But perhaps most the most recognizably square dance things about square dance turn out to be of black origin. And that would be the music and the calling the most critical part of the square dance band isn't the fiddle it turns out. It's the caller, right? Yeah. The guy who calls out the moves to the or Gal usually guy calls out the moves to the right. to the to the right of the band square dancing is one of the most social forms of American dance it was designed. So everyone regardless of age or dance ability could participate. It ain't really hard. You just need some basic moves. So. If you threw a party everyone in your small community wanted to participate. So who's left to play the music? Slaves. Oh my God right. So the children the old people everybody did would square together and it was the slaves played the music. soups had to learn to play all the white assholes out there and in time had a great effect on the music itself. But a square dancing became super popular in the early nineteenth century. There weren't enough dance masters or dance teachers to go around to teach everyone the moves. So the band's invented the caller. So this is the iconic voice calling out the dose he does the element left's. So the most critical job in square dancing is a black solution to a white problem color me. So. I doubt Henry Ford new this fact I very much. Doubt it. But I do sincerely hope that at the big flaming barn dance in the outskirts of Hell where he is. Now he's endlessly being called to Jig by black Jewish dance collar and band forever and ever Amen So. Just to finish, I have written a square dance song that I will call now to sum up the whole thing. Sowing your partners to buy to kick the do the Jazzman to pump your elbow lack spigot your new win this because of a big obsolete Tutsi Nazi. At that. I think you've got a future buddy. Square. Else to me. Before before you do any more of that I, I'm gonNA promenade Outta here. Do you go mark do you you might remember this I hope to God you don't, but I spent a period of my youth clogging, which is some. I remember it I was. To the Salt Palace. Giant venue here and watch you do it in time with like. Two hundred kids. Yeah. Some enormous clogging routine. And patrons. Patriot goal we get enough patrons. We're GONNA make Doug Clog and we're GONNA put it on the Youtube channel will happen it is it is it is a Dan style invented for white people who can't dance and still could not do it. It's tap dancing, but without the good stuff. But. You did have a nice piece of red fringe sewn to the back of your white dress shirt and I sure did. site. So there you go. Oh, my Gosh it's not for Nazis anymore. Let's just burn it all. That's elementary. Uncle Dan Hey, what? Yes. Hello hello uncle dare uncle mark here. Do you copy Roger Wilco A. Kilo seven. Hotel November do you copy? Ankle. Dan. I understand. You are a fan of books you know. You understand wrong. Well. The book. I'm a fan of well, you know I do have a favorite book. Sure. I i. think it was last week that I pronounced it the bad book. The basket full of goodness full of nonsense. It's yeah. It's one of the worst books of all time and what's great is if you if you look at it. Towards the end there you get to read. Crazy dudes letters to a bunch of other people. Well If you will, and if you think it's a bad book now. Twenty minutes from now you're not gonNa have a better opinion challenge accepted. Exactly. Does. Dear uncles. It seems that try as we might. We just can't seem to stop this great nation of ours from punching itself in the Dick. Two days ago was the fifty seventh anniversary of the march on Washington for jobs and freedom where Martin Luther. King Junior delivered his famous I have a dream speech. Although many thousands of people marked the anniversary by returning to that spot and advocating for that dream. It seems further away than ever I. We have to get through our present waking nightmare before we can even think about dreaming. That speech is, of course, every racist favourite speech on race because it contains the only words that any racist can quote of Dr King Quote. We should not be judged by the color of our skin, but by the content of our character. This is of course not what Dr King said the actual quote was quote. I have a dream that my four little children will one day live in a nation where they will not be judged by the color of their skin but by the content of their character. It's amazing. What a little context can do or what a little lack of contact can destroy isn't it? Yeah. Indeed. That's why the right in this country seems to be waging a war on context. To judge them by the content of their character if that's what they want. Exactly. Come out. Great. Exactly. The context of the American slave trade that we can truly understand how and why we find ourselves in this intractable racial mass today. Eliminate that context and you can blame victims for their own suffering. See the life and times of Cliven Bundy. and. Of course, in the context of the American slave trade slave owners found justification for their evil in a little book that we hear on how to heretic don't much like the Holy Bible. It's in that little book that we find that even it's we love it. We can't seem to get away from it. It's a little that we find that even Tinier book that did a lot of heavy lifting and giving shade to the antebellum south and is therefore still causing harm to this day today. Let's talk about the itsy-bitsy evil that is the book of Fi Leeman. Huge favorite of mine. Yes. FILENE's is the third shortest or if you're not into the whole brevity thing, the sixty fourth longest book in the whole Bible. Coming into the bear three, hundred and thirty five words as always. You tiny as always adhering to uncle dugs first rule of the Bible. This makes finally even my third favorite book in the Bible and with only second and third John Coming in shorter with two hundred and forty five and two hundred fifteen words respectively the Best Bible stories are the shortest ones. That's correct. Interestingly of the five longest books in the Bible Jeremiah Genesis. Psalms. Ezekiel an exodus we've dedicated three full uncles and seven segments to the cause with me covering genesis genesis, an episodes one, twenty and one twenty-one. Uncle mark covering. Ezekiel and episode eighty, six strangle and. Cover exodus and episodes one oh, six, one, seven, one, eight, one, zero, nine. I had to leave some for for the spirit of Elijah got lost in exodus, which is probably. As what he's meant to be pretty telling you don't worry Jeremiah in Psalms, your is coming. As longtime listeners will no doubt remember we have tackled the structure of the Bible in general and the New Testament in particular many times but there is something interesting about the tiny book of Filan. The New Testament is broken down into four main parts, the gospels consisting of the four retelling of the life of Jesus. The history consisting only of the book of acts which I talked about episodes one, forty, nine, and one fifty. The letters consisting of twenty epistles fourteen by Paul, although only seven or considered to have actually been written by him and the apocalypse consisting only of the book of revelation which talked about an episodes, fifty, eight and sixty. We really have dedicated a Lotta time to this stupid book. On Each of these four sections can be broken down into sub sections such as three synoptic gospels and John the Pauline Epistles and the non pauline epistles. If, you keep breaking it down the book of Filene's finds itself alone, and this is true in section three subsection, a sub subsection two sub sub sub section I as the only non pastoral individually addressed authentic letter written by. Paul. So. That's dynamite factum. Smoke you. Never have to use that fact. Need a drink. Like I mentioned before it is mercifully short consisting of a single page of text. However, terrible things can indeed coming tiny packages take, for example, the corona virus or Danny Devito. Oh. No. No level. Everybody throw Danny, we are pro devito on. Everybody. Thinks he's great but that's just because the truth is being suppressed by Big Vito. Big. Vito the name of his brother. Big Rita redner. So anybody boy has this tiny book been responsible for a veritable megatonnage of suffering. So before we dive in, let's talk about the contents of the letter because it seems fairly out of place in the Bible. For reasons, we'll explain and if one were not paying attention, one might miss the downright evil implications, what it says and more importantly what it does not say. the book is a letter written by Paul while he was a prisoner in Sierra. To a wealthy powerful. Christian. In colossians named Fi Leeman. Paul who is imprisoned with his traveling companion Timothy addresses a letter to Leeman and to APP via probably Finally Min's wife and are. Probably, filing and Sun. After after several verses of pleasantries in which Paul is clearly trying to butter up by Leeman even mentioning how he filename unquote refreshes the bowels of the saints joking. That's got to be a coffee enema right. Mind can just wander on that for a while that take let's do Paul gets finally gets onto the business. The point of the letter is to plead with finally men to free one of his slaves own Nessim, ass- who has run away to Paul and converted to Christianity Paul has written this written this treaty and set essayist himself back to Leeman to deliver the letter. Probably a bad idea. Yeah. Seem for obvious reasons. Paul bigs finally men to see own seo not as a runaway slave but as a brother in Christ. And even promises to pay any debts that on our own own SMS might oh Fi Leeman. We don't know what wrong unanimous has committed besides running away however under Roman law runaway slaves fared no better than their counterparts in the American south. And could be punished by their owners in any way they saw fit including execution, right? So Paul further hints that not only would it be great if Lehman forgave on SMS, but also would it be? It would be super nice if you could see fit to free him and let him return and work with me. Thanks. Paul was counting on his prominence in the Christian church to sway finally Eamon again was a recent convert to the church as were all Christians at the time. We don't know whether finally found this argument persuasive and Freon estimates or killed him but the inclusion of the book and Cannon Probably Means Things worked out. Okay. At least for the ness. Paul does mentioned on estimates one time in the epistle of Colossians but it's unclear if the epistle was written right before right after Philemon. So it doesn't help us know what eventually happened. So. Why include this little book in the New Testament at all there is no preaching done. No doctrine laid out. Jesus is only mentioned in passing and mostly it's just a pretty pedestrian letter from one dude to another well. If, you read the myriad articles by your various and Sundry Christian groups and think tanks think tanks is in quotes. And they are myriad. This little nugget not only shows how good and decent Paul was. But further at demonstrates that even an early Christians in the early Christian church slaves were considered people. In, fact they say the so often and so loudly that might suspect that they are overcompensating for something and one would be right now. The Bible and Paul himself responsible for some indisputably pro-slavery passages. A couple favorites or what would come to be called the curse of Cain? The curse of Ham when in Genesis nine? Ham saw his dad's waggling bits and Noah proclaimed quote cursed Canaan a servant of servants. Shall he be unto his brethren and he said blessed be the Lord God of Shem and Canaan shall be his servant and God shall enlarge Japheth, and he shall dwell in the tents of Shem and Canaan shall be his servant. there's another one famous one in both Colossians and fusions when Paul himself said the following quote servants, which is slaves be obedient to them that are your masters according to the flesh with fear and trembling. In singleness of Your Heart As unto Christ not with Ice Service men pleasers. But as the servants of Christ doing the will of God from the heart with good and doings goodwill doing service as as to the Lord and not to men knowing that whatsoever good thing. Any man do with the same shall he receive of the Lord whether he bond or free? those are pretty bad. while finally Matt Damon Says Nothing is explicit. It is at least as various perhaps more so because it seems because of it seeming innocuousness. This tiny little book in the Bible often referred to as Paul's Postcard. tells us to unequivocal things one. I Paul and the Christian. Church. In the head of have absolutely no problem with the institution of slavery whatsoever and to you can absolutely positively positively undeniably be a good and faithful. Christian and own slaves. Paul does not inveigh against the evil of slavery. In fact, he recognizes authority offers his own money to satisfy it nor does he reprimand Fi Leeman for owning slaves and command stopped the practice in fact, he calls final Eamon who is a slave owner his dearly beloved and speaks a few simplify lemans quote love and faith, which now has toward the Lord Jesus and toward all the saints. It seems clear that modern Christianity is aware of the moral landmine in the text. and has been buying ink by the barrel full try and say that it doesn't say what it says. Their main justification was that slavery was so ingrained in in Roman Greek and Hebrew societies at the time that it would have been either unwise or suicidal to challenge it here. For example, is professor beverly wrote Roberts Gha ventas attempt at a scriptural triple lindy quote. An abolitionist would have been the same time insurrectionist and the political effects of such a such a movement would have been unthinkable an quote. Here's the problem with all that noise. You cannot claim that your religion and the book it is based on our the timeless. Sublime. Moral Pinnacle of Human Endeavor. And say, it's just a product of its time and place. Yeah. You cannot claim the perfect ethical immutability of your God and have a book like finally men. And it's not like. The rest of the New Testament, isn't Ab- like whenever you hear Christians talking about what's that guy's name again Jesus? They're talking about a guy and they're proud they're talking proudly about how he bucked all of the social norms of the. He was a political revolutionary as well as as well as a religious way you're one hundred percent correct the very religion Christianity wasn't insurrectionist religion. It rejected and supplanted galway. Zeus at the same time. Why could it not have outlawed savory pushback. Exactly, why could it not have outlawed slavery even if only inside itself right. If taking on the Roman Empire over slavery was political suicide, it could have at least been a religion that did not itself taking to own slaves. The answer of course is that it could have, but it didn't want to. Christians are once again left in the terrible position of trying to explain away the rank immorality of their founding texts while trying to claim the moral high ground, they have absolutely no business being near sorry guys you were wrong on slavery you are disqualified. Yeah guys. I'm starting to the Bible not the Leona, it's been made out to be. Well. It is because the Leona was also useless and that's true. Yeah. Yes. So there it is. It's. It's a little tiny book the just absolutely a hundred percent condone slavery. Yeah from from the true had from the true head. The real founder of Christianity Paul exactly and that's that's a really good point because it's not something lost in the Old Testament. The can be easily dismissed as all the prophets Jesus came and changed everything. This was the post Jesus Christianity that had this view in this opinion. Yeah. So. It on the pile and then set it on fire. Yeah well. Against it and. If I had known fireman was that Short I might have not fucked around with Ezekiel and lost. And now it's going to be a mad dash for the rest of the short books in the Bible drew at least Ezekiel had a fucking flying saucer you that's true. You just got the boring slavery stuff. All right. We'll cool doug. Thanks for that. fun. Haitian. P again. When when Christians talk about well, you know the abolitionist. The American slave slavery abolitionist use the Bible to justify volition. Well. So did everybody else on the other side? and. This book you know a lot of southern slave owners saw themselves as filing. Good Holy Christians who own slips and the book by Lehman. Proves that they were right? Yeah say, right. So there you go. Able by it. Burnett Bury. It. Don't. Buy It. Don't mind. Go to. Go to a hotel room and there's a guy named Gideon left one by the bed. Stanford. Yeah. All right. Cool. Well, thanks Doug. We'll fell as well. Yes. Here you know we're we're just shouting into the void here. We're just talking to into the wind into. into the void West shouts back at you. or or and this? I. Think is a much better outcome It gives you some money. And that's a really lovely thing. So according to the supreme. Court money is speech so they'd counts. Okay. We'll I'll allow it this one. Thank you. But yes, we had some folks give us a little bit of their hard earned coin and boy do we appreciate it? And, so we need to give some. Thanks. So thanks first of all to Herald, who gave us some money on the on the pay pal and new patrons Donna and Jasmine thank you guys so much so much. So joining with all the other patrons who have who who are now enjoying the privileges that patron dot com. Affords them yes, and and if you would likely velvet rope. Exactly, and if you would like to understand what privileges those are, and perhaps join these people you can do. So by going to how to heretic dot com clicking on the support US little button there you'll be you'll be able to go to the patriarch page. You'll see what what what treasures await you. and then you can, and then you just sign up at super easy. You decide how much you want to give us and and that's how much we know you love us. So, do that or uncle mark how else can they support us? You know you can. You can build a constellation for us, and as you know constellations defined by Webster's dictionary as five stars or more right. So that's what you can do. Go to any place where you get these podcasts and hit the five stars hit it again if you see anybody hitting four three, hit them yum and Brighton are sky and and. Together one day we will join each other under it and dance once again. Yes indeed. Thank you guys so much. Let's do some more show. Thanks guys to lose. Hello, I'm here for some reason. I said you could say that every week and we still don't. But. Apparently, Doug here even our fair city of of Salt Lake, the Queen City as Brigham Young wanted to call it. We have a traffic problem. Do We? Yeah Yeah. I haven't left the house in six months i. don't really know how would we know how would we even know but apparently, our attorney general just won't shut up about. Travel Problem Dan. What do you know about it? Well I I'll get to it circuitously. Like traffic in Salt Lake City do. Longtime, listeners. Who have gone back and plumbed the depths of our back catalogue will recall that we're back in episode twenty three you uncle mark took a powerful look at terrifying nightmare that was the satanic panic. Yes. That's Anthony Right and like real nightmares, I e the crazed imaginings of our brains night it turned out that it was all bullshit and never actually happened the frenzied desire to stop it. Actually ended up ruining thousands of lives easily. Yeah. Well. That if that idiotic moment in our history points to anything, it's that humans are ding bats. We love to be scared and when we're scared rather than being wisely skeptical of outrageous claims, we are actually super energized by them but uncle, Dan I hear nobody asking me surely we've learned our lesson and nobody would be like that now. Well, nobody unfortunately, that's not the case the new crazed conspiracy theory that's actually making things worse for people experiencing a real problem is human trafficking. Utah Zone Yeah and you mentioned Utah's Attorney General Sean Reyes who actually talked about this issue a little bit on the national stage. When he spoke at the Republican National Convention this week I don't know if you guys caught that not worth looking up but. Here's the thing I i. couldn't hear him over Kimberly Royal Screaming Right. I didn't have anything and I could hear her. Yeah we were all deafened a little bit. So it was hard to hear the other speakers. Listen Human Trafficking Israel. It's a terrible thing that actually happens but it's not happening in the way that these idiots are talking about it so. I've we've decided to bring in somebody who knows way more about the horrifying realities of awful humans than I do to talk about it. Uncle Mark you want to do you want to set this up you want to introduce our friend yeah. So this is we're kind of lucky to have this expertise on Costa's an old friend of Mine Greg. Rogers who Greg you're a undercover special agent for thirty years thirty years, yeah thirty years and Greg. Greg correct me if I'm wrong, your two main beats were taking down. Kind of militia white nationalist Neo Nazi types, and the other one was tracking down American. Pedophile sex tourists in southeast ages at right that's correct. Yeah. So Greg Greg. was out there watching the walls and I'm pretty glad that people greg off the street are off the street. Welcome to the show. Thank you. Glad to be here. Nice. So Greg. I i. can you tell us I mean mark told us a little bit about you tell tell us about you and your work especially the work in. In in pedophilia sure I, started working. Cases involving just I don't. I don't mean to downplay to say just but I, mean, I began by working child pornography matters I'd been an undercover for a work in violent crimes, narcotics, biking gangs, but then I started working child pornography cases undercover in. Working. People here in the United States and is quite a promotion. Isn't that wonderful? What a nice name? Sadly sadly, IT'S A. There there's more that work than we can handle I. Mean it's and. Ironically, I mean actually I mean. If you Utah being a small population when I got transferred to the Salt Lake City office, we were busier here than any office I've ever been in we we prosecute is many. Child Pornography Cases in Utah's any office in the United States, and that doesn't mean per capita I mean pure numbers. Coming. Sane Yeah it's Utah and do you have a sense of wire Utah was a hot spot on that You know it's a gas it's but it's Repressed sexuality I some strange. Because when I got transferred here I thought the work would be much less than in you know. San Antonio other places I'd been in Texas reeb millions of people in the same cities I've worked with friends in La and much bigger offices in. Utah was a stunning. It's off the charts and. Yeah and it's weird. The tourism bureau hasn't picked up on that she. Impressive staff they don't put that out and I think in Utah quite frankly it's a, it's a community with. A lot of. Trust issues with you know in I worked at ton of cases and I'm not trying to be. Negative about any particular church but I mean I worked a lot of cases where people were in leadership positions in the Mormon Church and they were trusted. So you're you're on a safe podcast venue to say okay. And we'll get back. Sorry, we'll get back to the idea of like churches and how all that happens but I do WanNa talk about your time overseas because you spend a bunch of time going to two different countries and. And going after. Americans who were who were going there specifically. Driving something I got recruited with really they were just. Five of US got recruited to start going to Southeast Asia and. Just to track child sex tourists because in. We passed a one of the odd times that the government actually does something really well, they they passed a a child sex tourism statute, the protection act in like two, thousand three, and all we needed to do to arrest marriages that were traveling overseas was to prove that they traveled to have sex with minors. So our job was to go over there. We'd go over for two weeks a month sometimes we in Cambodia. Vietnam Thailand Gosh Philippines Indonesia. We would be invited by these countries to come and find out where the Americans were going where they were meeting the miners, how this was all set up. So we just go over there and be undercover as pedophile hanging out with those guys And fortunately again, who was one of those strange times where the government actually did it right they formed that statute in such a way that the Americans didn't have to actually perpetrate on a kid to get arrested. So we could get into conversations about how many times they've been in this country. How many kids have had sex with just act like remember kind of new nervous about it and scared didn't know where to go and these guys would start acting like your mentor. It was like something they thought you know a compliment to them. So it's a very kind communities. Really out for each other. And they would be very helpful. I. Mean. They'd tell you which clubs to go to which Madams to meet with and so it was. You know and you'd get it. You just essentially get a confession they'd traveled over there to have sex with minors. They've done it before in the s all we needed to prove in so. We would we would get a lot of guys That way. Wow. That I just can't imagine the psychological fortitude necessary to to hang out with those guys and and and. Try to convince them that you were friends with them and all that sorta stuff that must have been. Friendly. They when you're doing that, we have to go see psychologists every six months to make sure we're squared away and not going off the rails and. You know it's different. It's different work in those cases because when you're working bikers and you know which I did a ton of it's. I don't mean to downplay, but it's it's actually it's kind of a lot of. In. Your writing around going to Sturgis riding around being biker with these guys in if I don't pop them for thirty days, sixty days a year I don't care I mean it's drugs on the street and it's all that kind of stuff but But when you're working pedophile 's in, you know someone is perpetrating especially on a on a road trip they are perpetrating every day that they are in one of those foreign countries. So it keeps you up at night because every day you don't get that guy he he's he's damaging some young kids life. So it's a it's different. It's a different way of You know it's a whole different type of case so it keeps you. Keeps you going. Yeah Yeah. Indeed. Okay. So you clearly obviously have a have a sense of the realities you know working working the child pornography beat work in this be you have a sense of the realities of how this works, which is why I wanted you to come and talk to us because. Here's the thing. You like human trafficking has blown up as an issue in the United States. And a lot of it has been fueled by. Some. Pretty INS. Some. Pretty. Outrageous claims made by people on like four Chan and non believers and stuff. which all started of course, with Pizza Gate were ver- listeners who don't understand or don't remember it. You Know Pizza Gate was this. This theory this conspiracy theory that came about because because of that wikileaks leak with all of John. Podesta's emails to Hillary Clinton and two other people somebody hacked his email and and then the they leaked it was greg that Hackney. Well unleashed. Hell Buddy. Hack your computer. You do not have a very decent security system. Yeah. Yeah. Well, so so then people started to see Podesta talking emailing people about pizza and somehow they got the idea that pizza was code for. For for trafficking in children and that, and then you know this pizza joint this. Ping, Pong pizza joint in DC gets caught up in everything and it all culminated sort of when that guy when when a you know a young twenty something year old man. Busted into the place with guns, literal guns blazing know in fifteen and a handgun and fired a couple shots into the ceiling or whatever. Only to find that that place not only didn't have children locked up in basement ready to be traffic but didn't even have a basement. So it was pretty funny how it was just like the scene in pee. Wee's big adventure when everybody was laughing at him outside the Alamo, right? Yeah. There's no Alamo in the basement basement in the Alamo. Just. You'd think that would have put an end to the conspiracy theory theorizing just such a very obvious. Style you know proof that the what they had been claiming wasn't happening but now it has spiraled even further out of control. Now, people are implicating people like Oprah and. and. Piers Morgan. and Tom Hanks busy anyone who's who's famous or left wing. Because obviously, it doesn't apply to people that they like. And and it's so so the image in people's minds. is of literally Dungeons in the basements of mansions of the wealthy elite with foreign mostly foreign children. In chains. Yeah is there is. Hundreds of thousands Dan I was looking today and and the claim from Publican candidate for Congress. This guy who spoke at the RNC's hundreds of thousands of children. Right, and let's be clear that there are. There are probably hundreds of thousands of missing children in. The world. Maybe more I saw I saw figured the problem is I don't know it's hard to know what to believe when you look at some of this stuff. So Greg in your experience. Is that what child-trafficking looks like? No doesn't look like that at all. That's the human trafficking. And I I know I sound like a hopeless senic. But I am about the politicians are doing this kind of nonsense. It's become an industry and it's a IT'S A. Very, successful way to raise funds and You know you can to be clear. You're saying that talking about human trafficking is an industry, not the actual traffic. Human. Trafficking is it's it's horrific and I've seen real drafting. Too many times, but it's when I hear politicians here in the states making nonsensical claims like that. It's It's maddening because it denigrates the actual problem in it also but they're you know they they're very successful in using those arguments and not even real arguments just statements to to raise tons of money as is evidenced by our attorney general here who you referenced his speech where he called himself a warrior begins his warrior heritage, which I'm not sure what that was I was I was a little nervous. He was going to start doing a some kind of. Hakka dancer something there and. But thankfully, he didn't but it was You know that's it. It's nonsense but he's he raises. An immense amount of money. You know talking about human trafficking all the time when he knows nothing about it. Well. You say he knows nothing about it but I wanNA talk to you about this. He actually went on an operation with operation underground railroad into Columbia himself. Posing as as a security guard for for this group of of fake guys who are going to who are claiming, they were going to invest in a thing and he claims that they actually like. Foiled and underground or a ring of traffickers. So what do you? What are your thoughts about groups like under operation underground rail-. Ground making a lot of money is a very successful money raising venture they done The Ballard who started operation underground railroad is an ego run amuck that. knows. He should know better he was a federal agent for a short amount of time before he left the Department Homeland Security and started operation underground railroad we do not work with them. The FBI wouldn't work with them because they I actually set them up in a meeting in Thailand meet with our assistant legal attache there they came over babbling about having navy seals in one of the drop into the country armed and hitting places that they believed in I. Mean you had to have basic conversations with them like you. You know in Thailand, you're not cops you're not even. Can't drop into a foreign country with weapons and start rating brothels. It's You end up in a Thai jail. If you do that and Ryan, we won't do anything for you if that happens so. But. That's what they were promising. That's how they started raising money right that they will literally going to be this kind of. Team six that was going to go rescue children. Yeah. They've changed their website a lot. It used to have a bunch of people who were purportedly former seals and they called himself jump teams going into these foreign countries, which is it's just crazy in did. But they've raised a ton of money they've got there trough it gyms and And and you know in Huntsman's campaign you had down you know is one of the guys in the trip supporting announcement so it's Now, it'd be Jon Huntsman who was a former Utah. Governor and and was running to be governor again. Yeah. He's considered the same one right Right amazing. Is that this this Tim Ballard who of operation underground railroad has done such an effective job of Mo- of marketing or messaging. That he's yeah, he's perceived as a as a hero. And Yeah and it's and it's all predicated on this big macho commando sort of idea. But is that the best way to fight human trafficking? No. It's a great way to get yourself in Thai or Cambodian jail. I mean it's A. It's a it's a nonsensical way to approach the problem because even his FBI agents we are cops. But when we go into a foreign country to assist with arresting a US citizens that are traveling, we have to be invited in by that foreign country. We're not. You know we're we're federal agents here worse were tourists in. Cambodia. Tight. Any place else? Right. We have to be invited in by the country it. There's all sorts of stuff they asked to go on with our ambassador. And their people and They know what we're doing. We cooperate corroborate with their national police were there we work together and there's there's a whole lot that goes into making that happen in a bunch of private citizens in the United States can't run around the world with a are fifteen act like they're jumping out of planes and going into brothels I mean that's that's It's not a way to fix this in. If you really understood the problem, they would know that. While, you may have some success in taking these young children out of these brothels. You've helped those young children you took out that day. But they're replaced the following day so. You didn't nothing to solve the larger problem. So, what is so we've talked about what isn't happening, which is you know all of these these Elite rings of people chaining people up in you know kidnapping and chaining kids up I wanNA talk a little bit about what actually is happening and what is a problem and what we should be looking for. In that, it's it's interesting because around the world I, mean the the worst things that you've heard about our happening, there are in Southeast Asia Vera brothels I could go into any day of the week. There in? Parts of the cities in Bangkok potty A-, Phnom Penh where you you go in there, they're adults that are dancing on the floor. But if you know the right mad to talk to, you can get directed to where you can find whatever age you're interested. In So that's clearly going on and it's horrific. There are in other countries. There's all sorts of human trafficking and asked to do with forced labor. You know I mean. So these things are prominent in. Different parts of the world but not. Happening here varies. There are clearly here there are circumstances where, for instance. Ms. Thirteen Central. American gang that's become very active in the united. States does take young ladies and force them into prostitution to make money that's human trafficking. So happens here that's going on in in major cities and So I don't WanNa say it's not going on here but it's not going on here like it's going on in different parts of the world in any way I mean nothing to even closely approximated. Well. So what so one of the things that I've read about that I know that is happening and that is what we should be concerned about in the United States and and other parts of the world. Is One of the definitions of one of the things that is defined as human trafficking is anytime. A child. someone underage is is forced or coerced or. You know defrauded into. some. Of Commercial Sex. That's considered human trafficking and the thing is that that does happen here. But, it's not it's not rings of elite organizations that do that are doing it. It's their family member. That was going to say it's Absolutely most often family members in that happens on, you can get on any number of encrypted sites if you have passed coach to get on. where? They're full of movies of young children who are being molested. Every hideous way you can imagine and the vast majority of those movies were made by family members with their. Own. Children or. Nieces and nephews. And jobs yeah and then they trade those. Movies most often the you know. It's not a moneymaker they're trading those movies to get movies from other people so usually so just just to feed their desires. Those things And also and we you alluded to this before. But there is there are a few. Actual major organizations that participate in this but they're usually called things like the Catholic Church. She Says Yeah So. So I mean. One of the things that being a pedophile with your own country in diplomatic immunity I mean that's something. Yes. Yeah but I mean I, you know that's one of the things that I wanted to make sure that people were aware of is that you don't don't bother looking for you know places where we're we're kit dungeons where kids are chained up look for adults who? WHO The children are supposed to trust grooming children to trust them and do things for them that that they shouldn't be doing. What the problem, its and these people are. The there there are sadly Individuals who are very very, very good at it I mean they can groom. I don't know how many parents I've interviewed whose children have been abused by schoolteachers church leaders And they just can't believe it happened that you're you're when you're talking to the parent you'll be like you let this guy you know like a third grade schoolteacher you let this guy take your boy on camping trips by himself. You let him spend the night at his house. You let him go over there to new gaming you know. You're like, what were you did? You think that was unusual that this third grade teacher had all this interest in your? Eleven year old a nine year old boy in Yeah. But it's these guys are unbelievably talented. The gaining the trust of not only the kid which is most important than. But if their parents you know in Poland that off and it's It's amazing. I mean in in Southeast Asia one of. Real difficulties we had the the one flaw. The statute I was referencing is as they have to travel to have sex with minors in foreign countries so If. They move there. That's a whole different deal and it's more difficult in so we would have. There are tons of. Almost all related to one religious organization or another churches, and you'd have teachers in those in those schools American teachers that were teaching English as a second language and. A good percentage of them were pedophile and they were there because they were preferential they like to certain aides group and they teach that age group in they would have. gained. Their trust just ready made ready made victims and they would Yeah it was it was stunning. We arrested a a lot of those teachers that were over there. Yeah. Well I. You know one thing that I think we talked about this when we were originally had this conversation Greg is that you said there there were five of you who worked kind of the Southeast Asian beat Yep. and. I'm sure there were several other. Agents that might have worked similar beats in the United States. Mainly Central South America Eastern Europe. Yeah we were all over the place, but you know. At the end of the, there's a finite amount of investigative resources for this right like. When These these kind of read about this, these hotlines that people can call to agencies that are actually trying to. Prevent Human Trafficking and relocate children that have gone missing etc are just getting swamped with this bullshit like the works are getting completely gummed up. What few works there are getting completely gummed up by this absurdity him? Oh no questioning especially here in in Utah there is a a couple years back maybe three or four years ago now Everybody was convinced that every single massage parlor in town that had an Asian name was a place where human trafficking was taking place there absolutely convinced everybody that was working in there was here in somehow had their identifications taken from them and they were being forced to give these massages and So there were tons of calls about that and people in it was it was it wasn't wasn't the case and I'm not in any way saying that the people that worked in those, some of those places were treated fairly and kindly meet it's not true but it wasn't that doesn't make human trafficking. Right. Well. Greg thank you so much for coming on I. I mean more than anything. What I wanted to do was just sort of maybe trying pour pour some cool water on the flames that are being fanned right now and just get the word out that the you know while there are real problems surrounding this. It's not what people are getting excited about right now, and maybe we should be a little more. A little more respect when it comes to our zeal to. Always. In the source of the information that's good for any uptick. In if I could just real quick for for people that are really interested in this and again, please understand I'm not a a huge fan usually of of most of what the federal government does because we can confuse things and make it very complicated but they the State Department does put out what they call the traffic in persons report every year and for those who are. Interested you should read it because it goes through horrific things that are happening in different countries how they look at those things what's countries around lists in it lays it out pretty well year after year about where the real issues are, and you'll see that there is because I don't want to at all sound like I'm downplaying human trafficking it's a horrible problem in our world. It's. Going on in the United States, the way it's portrayed by. Current crop of politicians. Well, thanks so much for coming on and depressing us. All. Feel. Horrible. Genuinely appreciate. Very thankful I could do that for you. Well friends. That's it for this week. Surprisingly dark show. Yes. Indeed. Hey. If you've ever written a pro slavery letter to someone, we'd love to hear about it send us an email at how to how to heretic dot com or if you can. You think you can bust my fucking square dancing. Writing Chunks you can leave me a voicemail about it nine, three, eight, two, which is nine, three, eight, four, six, nine, eight, six. This song must also be extreme racist I'm also on twitter at after heretic, and once again we give lovely thanks to wherever patrons yes and to Code Layton, who is our shortest book in the Bible Thanks to all of you for tuning in by friends.

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Big Oil's Multi-Billion-Dollar Blind Spot

Drilled

25:48 min | 1 year ago

Big Oil's Multi-Billion-Dollar Blind Spot

"The oil and gas industry is getting out of a lot of obligations these days. They have pushed for and gotten regulatory. POZINGAS rollbacks tax breaks all kinds of good stuff. Although of course, the American Petroleum Institute is still insisting that the industry is quote unquote, not getting a bail out one of the big ways that the industry is getting off the hook for its responsibilities is in the case of its wells and more specifically. What happens to them when they're not producing oil or gas anymore? That is becoming an even bigger problem amidst the covert nineteen pandemic, because a lot of wells have been temporarily idled. Idled and some percentage of those will end up. Being abandoned altogether shale gas companies are already starting to go out of business in various parts of the country, and are announcing their downfall every day it remains to be seen whether demand will actually return to normal levels after the pandemic, plus there will be an energy transition at some points in a lot of folks are starting to wonder what will happen to these oil and gas sites once that transition gets underway in order to get permits to drill oil or gas wells, fossil fuel companies are required to get permits and with those permits they have to. To commit to plugging and remediating well sites when they're done with them, it's an expensive proposition and one that the industry tends to put off as long as possible in part, because no states actually require these companies to put up the money for plugging and remediating wells before they start drilling a new report finds that on top of all that the oil and gas industry has been dramatically underestimating the cost of doing this remediation for years report out today from carbon tracker finds that in fact, plugging shale wells can cost up to ten times with companies have been estimating. That's a huge financial liability. That's not. Not, on the books of shale gas companies, which are already struggling financially for various other reasons that report is called. It's closing time. The huge bill to abandon oilfields comes early joining me today. Are this reports co co-authors Greg Rogers who we've heard from in previous episodes and Rob Szurek eggs director of carbon tracker North America to talk about just how many of these wells were looking at what these costs made be and what the heck states are going to do about it. We'll have that conversation in a minute after a word from this week sponsor. I made me Westervelt and this is drilled. and. So turns out that covering really complex issues like climate change fracking the oil industry's current implosion. What's happening with policy right now? Who's saying what and why Corporate Accountability Influence? All of that can be a little overwhelming especially when you're doing it in several different forms of media, and for several different outlets, trying to say is having jobs can be overwhelming. I'm not someone whoever thought that I would turn to video games in any way to relax, but I have to say that I find the best fiends apple weirdly soothing. It's kind of like tetris puzzle with cute animals. It's really straightforward and simple, but keeps my mind engaged in a way that allows me to kind of forget about some of the other things. I'm focusing on day to day, and my kid gets a kick out of it because. Because he loves video games, so it's like fun for him to have mom join in. If you need a break from all of the stress of your day, engage your brain with fun puzzles and collect tons of cute characters in best fiends trust me with over one hundred million downloads. This five star rated mobile puzzle game is a must play. Download best beans free on the Apple. APP store or Google play. That's friends without the our best Phelan's. A. I was hoping you could maybe start with sort of the genesis of the report. What made you realize? This is something that we needed data on really we started. This is a combination of of Greg's longstanding interest. Interest in arrows and carbon trackers focus on on really the implications of the energy transition for fossil fuel companies and their investors. We started looking at How Asset. Retirement obligations on the balance sheet. Were reported How frequently? Leave vise those estimates. And had working Greg is largely built over over years of observation on this as to why that was the case, which was that as assets retired people had to revise those estimates to reflect the actual costs, and those were were a lot more significant, and we took sort of work thinking about in terms of energy transition. What can happen here? Are these assets all gonna live there full estimated useful lives right. If. We can't extract in burn. All of these fossil fuels consistent with our climate targets. How are we? How are we actually really GonNa expect that these assets you know, live in other thirty forty fifty. In some cases you know two through the end of the century for thinking about oil sands assets for example. it was so our initial focus was actually on individual companies, and what they've got on the balance sheets, and what kind of impact? If we saw some air road celebration and you see a little bit on that in this paper because it's still an important concept. But as we looked at it, and we thought well, there's a great story here. In the US. Let's focus on the you asked us focus on onshore, and let's look and see right You know what you know. In addition to just looking at the corporate reported figures were still really give you any of the backstory right. They give you the discounted present value some discount rate. Rate the company has used. You don't have the discounted numbers. You don't know what it really costs. But when we looked around for for what things really cost, we saw a lot of claims from industry in in many cases from the regulators as well, I think parenting, some industry numbers that were looking at tens of thousands of dollars or less to close a lot of these wells. Including the one we the one estimate from a from the Baker Hughes that we have in. That's focused on. You know thirty three thousand dollars to close wells in places like the Eagle Ford with average wellborn debts, tunnel vertical depths of like nearly ten thousand feet, looking at actual data there were there was a lot of evidence to suggest that those costs be far greater, but was a big offer for me. Amy Is we were. We were searching for actual cost data. Preferably, not estimates but actual cost. What would it cost to plug and abandon these onshore wells? And it started to look like there was a a self referential going on between industry and state orphan well programs that are largely funded by industry where. Industry would would point to the orphan. Well cost experience, which was the only available cost data. We could find in the United States. And A. Hey, we. We like those costs. Would seem to be ranging from five thousand to up to forty thousand dollars a well and so we're going to reference those costs has. An in terms of the economic analysis of A shale fracking in US onshore onshore oil industry. So we had this. Orphan well data, but one thing that started to stand out from that is that most of those wells are are old and their shallow. There's there is a news millions of undocumented wells, even pre regulatory wells in the United, states and a lot of those have found their ways way into orphan well programs. Some of these walls are just a few hundred feet deep. And don't even ten a trait a groundwater. So we knew that when we saw that. That the. Average depth. The vertical depth of the shale wells was was much much deeper, reaching from sixty, five, hundred to be twelve thousand feet, vertical depth, and we're wondering well. What's the correlation between a depth and costs and there were a few studies out. That looked at the US orphan well data suggesting there there, there was a correlation between depth and cost, but that it was linear so just. Ten dollars a foot. Let's say doesn't matter whether it's a thousand well or. Twenty thousand foot well. It's going to cost ten dollars foot. And you had some state bonding regimes INC a dollar per foot in determining bond values to the as financial assurance for the plug and abandoned it costs. So that was interesting and something, that obviously may depth relevant. But the most important finding was a key out of research of industry data outside the United States in Australia. That indicated dipped the correlation between depth and cost was exponential rather than linear, and when we looked more closely at the orphan well data that was was available. In the US it also seemed to support an exponential correlation rather than linear correlation. Could you speak a little bit too power? Why is it that there's no transparency about these costs? No one has made them provide that cost information. Did they have no interest in providing that information just to just to make that clear right right so similar need to be interested in having them do it and I think that really. You know at the regulatory level. You're suffering from some level of capture, which you'll typically see what you have a regulator for a specific regulated industry. But that was also combined with the belief that I think a lot of people have had about oil and gas at the idea that this industry. May Not have the money on its balance sheet today to close all of its wells immediately, but they will close over time, and it will keep making money. Keep drilling wells, and they'll be flow future because we all need energy right if we're GONNA, economic growth is correlated with it, and so it's GonNa be This is gonNA. This is gonNA. Be Cash, the future to close these, so why worry about why worry about what the actual costs are? The problem of course is those assumptions have been completely upended by the Anti Transition. And in the pandemic right has has been sort of a shot across the bow on to realize how quickly things can turn potentially shut in, and it gives a glimpse all several. The financial condition that the companies are then in the arguments. They're gonNA make which is that we can't afford to do that now. So I think has kind of shaken things up into the question is really. Should regulators still not pay attention what the actual costs are and or will bill? They continue to do that and I think that. Does you know that's that's? Becoming increasingly bigger and bigger issue or most of of the oil and gas industries history this, it's been sort of a self bond self reporting situation and states are starting to realize. Oh, this is this is potentially gonNA. Leave US holding a bill that we can't necessarily afford to pay either. Can you just talk about what this problem looks like for states, and what some of them are trying to do about it? What of the things that's happening is that the coronal pandemic has accelerated the shut in of wells. Drawn a lot of attention to this topic and China shining a light on the reality that the orphan wealth funds are not sufficient. To plug an abandoned. A large number of wells that are becoming Heidel non-economic at the same time, but the state's realizing the problem. They were in before the pandemic hit. And they were starting to do things like increasing Vonda amounts increasing idol wealth fees and tightening up on the regulatory flexibility about allowing. Temporary abandonment of wells, so temporary abandonments is a state when a well is. Shut in, but not permanently so production is stopped, but the well left in in a state of limbo, where at least in theory, it can be started a backup again. So those are the types of things I think that we we see states doing and there's there's a few other actions, but essentially they're tightening up on the credit. Amy and I think the the easiest way to think about this is that. The legal obligation to plug in abandoned and oil well at the end of its economic. Useful life is a is a liability to the state. And normally. You'd think of Ed of a debt like this that has. Financial consequences. The creditor would charge interest on that or require collateral so effectively. Self bonding means free credit on these liabilities, and that's largely been the case. For for decades, but what the states are doing, they can either require immediate. A permanent retirement of wells that have been sitting idle for a long time or they can increase the carrying costs. Of that outstanding debt I like every day. I'm seeing another news story about a shell company God declaring bankruptcy or warning that it will be going bankrupt. And so, what is the real situation that a lot of these states are in right now? How much of this debt does it look like some states are going to be absorbing no matter what you know, initially the parameters that are important to understand a statewide orphaned well risk would would include the number of wells. NAVID cost per well the on coverage. So how many is probably speak your? How much security is actually place? Then, then you get into some more complex issues like the useful life of the well all the wells did they need to be plugged in abandoned now or you know are some going to continue to produce for for many years into the future, and then the credit risk of the operator, so to the extent that their self bonding can can be. Is the operator good for will operate remained good for. A-, give you just a couple of pieces of information. You know that help fill in that framework, so just look at the number of operating an idol wells that are out there. The numbers are pretty staggering, so these are not these are not orphan wells, pre regulatory wells, undocumented wells, these are wells that are currently out there tagged to a specific operator, and they're either producing now, or they're in a state of temporary abandonment of shut in Texas has over four hundred thousand Wells California over a hundred thousand one else Pennsylvania over a hundred thousand miles, Kansas over ninety thousand Ohio over ninety thousand New Mexico over fifty thousand in North Dakota over twenty five thousand. So one is. We're talking about a large population of wells. And our researches is indicating that you know that the cost to plug these wells is going to be significantly more than the orphan well cost experience. And that for the for the shale wells may be as much as. Three hundred thousand dollars a well. That's based on. Evidence that we have cost dated this coming out of Australia, so maybe more maybe less than that, but still a pretty big number. And still like. Ten Times what they've been. So, we're talking. We're talking. Numbers that are in the billions for some states are going to be in the tens of billions. And and the exercise is going to require getting a full inventory of the of the wells in each state and knowing the depth of those wells so that. Because when you're talking about an exponential correlation, depth becomes really important, but I think what I think we can it that and. We will be able to put a a rough cost estimate. For statewide orphan well risks and I think the numbers are going to be shocking to a lot folks. At a certain point, the states don't have money to do this. Either and some of this work will just be left undone. Is that something that you're looking at what? The the impact of that on you know communities at my lives near these wells, there are a number of different ways of thinking about the environmental impact from from from these wells, so you can take even in places where people are not nearby. You have the potential when you have improperly improperly plugged, or or you have wells at are abandoned, but but have not been plugged right. You have the potential for leakage. You have their potential for toxic emissions. You have the potential for greenhouse gas emissions and the potential to trade groundwater right? Intimidate groundwater, but but the reality is actually you do have situations in Colorado right number fields classic example, many places in Colorado you have wells that are literally within neighborhoods. same is true in California right with you get from Los Angeles to Long Beach. Those are often credibly costly to close I. Mean we were talking with? We were talking with somebody from couch the other day about this who is responsible for that in in Los Angeles and they had a close in elder were. Were like seven hundred feet deep something like that so really actually quite shallow. It was over a million dollars a well to close it because they had re drilled. The well bore costs can be quite significantly. We think of it as the three hundred thousand. We're talking about here. That's sort of an average. There's all kinds of contingencies that could make it much more costly as well, but but you have to do that because you have people that are getting sick. You know headaches. Nose bleeds. Obviously. There's plenty of carcinogens petroleum of questions. Really who's GonNa pay so once we once we get a handle on. What's IT GONNA cost the questions. Paid his bill I think you can start first and say is going to be industry as well. The orphaned well funds are are are not even close to being up to the task of retiring all the existing producing and temporarily idled wells, and then you get into landowners citizens so lately in a landowners have have a lot at stake here because many of them have. Abandoned the equipment on their land in surface contamination. It's not what they bargained for, and so they're just kind of left with a mess on their property. And then you've got citizens that are impacted by Kim, be impacted by toxic or or groundwater contamination. And then you get to the environment, there are a lot of negative consequences to abandon and unplugged wells I. Guess this is naive, but I'm still sort of shocked at how willing states have been to just be left holding the bag on this. We talk a little bit about that in the paper to try to make sense of. How did we get here? The Rub describes the moral hazard that exists which is is is quite evident when you look at it, so it begs the question. Why did states do this? Why did they operate this way and I think it's actually pretty obvious. This was inevitable. These regulatory agencies were initially set up to protect the oil and gas resource, basically to break to protect it, so we could get as of that hydrocarbon resource out of ground as possible. And putting additional. Costs on the industry was negatively because that was going to reduce the amount of oil and gas that could could be extracted, and then you add to that a the dynamics of the various oil-producing states, the ability of industry to play one st against the other. Creating a race to the bottom. and. You still hear this kind of discussion from states that well, if we, if we increase the cost on industry that they're going to withdraw from our state and go someplace else, but it's in our financial best interests to keep their costs low, and you know that makes perfect sense until you look at the the liability side of the balance sheet. So as long as you're pushing those costs off discounting them. Over decades and essentially sort of out of sight out of mind on the closure, Congress issue than than the idea of reducing the bonding costs makes good economic sense what we're trying to do in the paper as draw attention to that data. To the liability side of the Balance Sheet, so that folks don't just see the asset side and realize that there is a huge bill to pay her, and we simply haven't planned for it because the incentives were all going in the other direction for the past hundred years, has there been any indication of willingness from states to potentially take these things to court I covered the climate liability cases for a long time and this sound so similar to. A lot of kind of the basis of those suits, and especially the fact that you know we're getting more specific costs in place here. Are you seeing any potential for for liability suits that would cover the cost of damages here. If. The State is interested in doing that when they actually filed complaint. Probably not before. But. The fact is what are the conditions there for that and I think the answer that is yes. That's it for this time. We will stick a link to the report in the show notes. You can read through the entire thing. We will have a couple more episodes for you here and there in the next few weeks, but otherwise we are going on production hiatus until we're ready to release the next investigative series. That will be in July some time. I'm not going to commit to a d. just yet as a reminder, if you are a Patriot subscriber or you subscribe to our newsletter, which is a collaboration between drilled and hot. Take that I do with Mary and I use. Hagler you will get early access to the next season. SEASON AD free, so if you haven't signed up for either of those yet, and you want to support our work, we appreciate it. Please do that. We will stick a link to where you can sign up for all those things in our show notes as well on that note, big thing to our latest Patriot sponsors. They are Kevin McMahon Cynthia. Latham, Schuyler, Caroline, Lynch Kathy Moulvi K. Humphries Stephen Parody and emily cue? Thank you, guys. Your support really means a lot. It's helping us do all kinds of reporting keeping tabs on climate policy doing more investigative projects and putting out more seasons this year. Thanks again and we'll see you next time.

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How the Coronavirus Pandemic Turned into Christmas for Big Oil

Drilled

23:18 min | 1 year ago

How the Coronavirus Pandemic Turned into Christmas for Big Oil

"Laughter chaotic twenty four hours. This bill passed the house in under a minute with a chorus of voice votes supporting the two trillion dollar his store. It is Friday march. Twenty seven th twenty twenty years in the United States Congress has just passed the largest stimulus bill in its history keeps being reported as a quote unquote two trillion dollar stimulus. Bill like a lot of money but a fairly meaningless amount. We'll go to taxpayers. The big winners here are corporations and Big Industry. Oil execs have got to be clicking. They're damn heels right now. We're going to explain why in this episode in season three we trace the creation of big. Oil's big propaganda machine and now have a perfect example of why they spent so much effort and money and years building it only in industry that has convinced both political leaders and the public that it is an essential part of the Economy National Security. And really what it means to be. American could get away with with big. Oil is doing right now. Welcome back to drilled. I'm Amy Western. There are three key things to know about what was happening with the oil and gas industry long before the corona virus pandemic hit first shale gas companies also not fracking companies had racked up tens of billions of dollars of debt and those loans are all coming due soon somewhere between twenty twenty and twenty twenty seven. That's a huge problem for an industry. That's never turned. A profit never turned a profit moral matinee minute. The second thing to know is the oil and gas companies of all kinds have been stacking up debt around what's called asset retirement obligations when a company gets a permit to drill for oil or gas. They need to take on these obligations basically agreeing to cap wells and cleanup drill sites once they're done using them but no one's enforcing this it's really easy for companies to say you know what we're not sure we're done with that well we might come back to it if the price of oil increases so it's not technically retired. They've all been doing this with thousands of wells for years. So at this point they've stacked up billions of dollars worth of cleanup costs on their ledgers and third prices in the industry have been going down since about two thousand sixteen. That's because demand has been decreasing so despite all those things the oil industry tells us about how they're just fulfilling a demand not so. The industry is entire business. Model is built around the idea of one hundred dollar a barrel oil. The price has been between fifty and seventy dollars since about two thousand sixteen and then this recent price were hit which we're gonNA talk about in a minute. Now it's all the way down at about twenty five. All this stuff was causing real financial trouble for the industry before the current virus pandemic sent demand shooting downward fat decreased. Demand has exacerbated all of this of course but the idea that they need a bail out because of corona virus is bullshit. Fracking industry is cash. Negative right now. The the fracking has not produced a return on capital excessive the cost of capital since its inception. It's an industry that has never succeeded in producing pre casual. Okay first. Let's talk about the absolute Ponzi Scheme. That is always has been the fracking. Industry companies. Spend more cash Dan. They actually produce that negative free cash flow. That's Clark Williams dairy. He's an energy finance analyst with the Institute for Energy Economics and Financial Analysis who spent twenty years researching energy finance in an early stage business like an Internet startup. For example spending more money than you make is pretty common. It's not that weird but it usually doesn't last for more than ten years and that's what's happened. In the fracking industry is the industry never succeeded in producing free. Cash will never into companies may produce it from time to time. There are few companies that have some modest cash flows but for the most part the fracking sector is unable to cash. So on its surface makes no financial sense to bail out the fracking industry. Why PROP UP AN INDUSTRY? That's never turned a profit end. That creates an endless amount of costly environmental problems from pipeline leaks to climate change. Because it's not just about the economics. Economics aren't going to keep fossil fuels crowd politics that this is Lucas Ross. A senior policy analyst with friends of the Earth is very dangerous for climate activists to assume that just because the fossil fuel industry is financially hurting. It is in the process of Diet. It badly misunderstands political realities. That have kept this industry afloat to the last century. If you want to better understand those realities go back and listen to season three. But there's an important bit of recent politics to understand in the context of what's happening today to Greg Rogers. A legal and accounting expert who's been researching environmental liabilities in the fossil fuel. Sector for about twenty years is going to walk. Us through that price war. I mentioned earlier. You may have heard it mentioned in the news lately the Russia Saudi oil price war. Okay so what? I what I think is behind the price. War Is that the. Us is stealing market share from the Saudis and the Russians In the form of pipe shale oil or titles they call it okay so tight oil a type of crude oil that fracking companies relase. They could also get from shale rock a few years back. They started out just drilling for natural gas than they discovered this tight. Oil Not really put them on track to compete with the big global oil producers Russia and Saudi Arabia. This little tidbit is important to understanding. Why the government and various banks would continue to fund an industry that doesn't generate cash. Remember this from trump's two thousand seventeen state of the Union address you have unleashed a revolution in American energy. The United States is now the number one producer of oil and natural gas anywhere in the world. He's made similar statements. In every state of the Union sense. There are political reasons for continuing to produce oil and gas. Even when there's a glut and the prices are low and the economics. Just don't work. Here's a Greg Rogers again the. Us is gone from being a large importer of oil from logic from Saudi Arabia. To being the number one producer of oil and gas in the world and actually excellent coil to to foreign market so where competitor. There's a climate change wrinkle here to basically no one wants to be the guy left holding a bunch of valueless oil barrels when the music stops I would say that if climate change and energy transition beings that oil is to be left in the ground. It's not gonNa be our oil. That goes on Burns. That's what that's what the Russians in the Saudis. Say But if you accept that the world is eventually going to heal to the scientific warning that we can only put so much more. Carbon dioxide into the atmosphere without incurring the worst effects of climate change and that means only so much oil is going to be pulled from the ground and burned and the Saudis and the Russians have enough oil to supply the world's needs under that scenario just between themselves so they have a lot of reserves. And they're also very. They're the lowest cost suppliers in the world. So if you start to think that there's only so much more or there's going to be burned and logically. The lowest cost suppliers should be the ones that provide the oil that is going to consume. It would be Russia and Saudi Arabia. So why would they want? The Americans essentially taking their market share. Which brings us to the corona virus and the price for as soon as the virus started making headlines Russia began pushing back on OPEC's production limits OPEC brings the thirteen oil producing countries together to set production and pricing which creates stability in the world oil market on March sixth Russia pulled out of OPEC's production agreement prompting Saudi Arabia to set super low prices on its oil. Russia countered by upping its production even more in between that and the pandemic driving demand down oil. Prices took an epic fall there now under twenty five dollars a barrel which isn't great for Saudi Arabia or Russia but their production costs are way lower than the US for American oil and gas companies. These prices are catastrophic so now all of a sudden politicians can say we're not bailing out of feeling industry receiving American companies from attacks from the Russians and the Saudis. I would imagine that there would be a lot of political pressure and and and Some inclination by US politicians to support the domestic coal and gas industry. And especially when you tie that back in two concerns about national security so I think the proposition that at the Saudis and the and the Russians are going to provide the oil energy needed by the world as we phase out. The industry is is not very appealing to US politicians and so against reasons to bail out the industry. The question is can they afford it? I mean the the. The fracking industry has been you know has not produced a return on capital inaccessible. The cost of capital consumption and this episode is brought to you in part by best fiends. A puzzle game. That's free to download a lot of fun for everyone in the family. I like to play with my son. Archie. I Love Best Fien. There's fun puzzles and you can get friends that can help you. And I think it's really unique the there's bugs against slugs and I just love it. Do League playing with me. Yeah I also like playing with my mom. Amy Westervelt honestly. It's a nice break from researching terrible corporate actors. Engage your brain with fun puzzles and collect tons of cute characters. Trust me with over a hundred million downloads. This five-star rated mobile puzzle. Game is a must play download best fiends three on the apple APP store or Google play. That's friends without Dr Best Beans. Okay that brings us to this other big issue. I mentioned up. Top asset retirement obligations after retiring obligations are areas are An accountant's turn for legal obligations associated with the retirement of a long lived assets. So we're talking about tangible assets. In this case we're talking about oil and gas wells plug in the Bannon. That costs right. None of that's being factored in industry wasn't cash flow positive. The four year accounted for that. It's probably been could probably count. The plugged. Horizontal fracking wells on my fingers. Those in the United States since since industry unplugged wells can leak all sorts of chemicals and toxic fluids including oil or natural gas itself into the water air and soil there also a major source of fugitive methane emissions which contribute to climate change. The industry has been shirking. Its duties on this front four years creating a massive financial and environmental disaster waiting to happen specifically for all these gas wells every state and the federal government requires that in order to get a permit to drill an oil and gas. Well that the operator has to commit to properly decommissioning. That that well at the end of its useful life so at the point where they well. It's no longer economic operate if companies did this pretty soon after they stopped using a well. It wouldn't be that costly sort of back up with the envelope. Estimate of the cost to decommission and these assets I would be roughly five to six percent of the cost to create them but they don't do it right away. They put it off sometimes for decades. The problem is the white numbers. Get so big is because Oil companies to to a great extent. They can wanted to further those costs. In other words they built up bigger and bigger inventories of these asset retirement obligations rather than properly plugging in abandoning wells. As soon as they become economic they They let those well sit. Idle sometimes for decades So we have very large inventories of of debts that piled up. Where'S THE MONEY? GonNa come clean up after viewing parties over. I mean there's there's audie large segments of gas industry that are functionally insolvent Clark Williams dairy again. He's also concerned about the asset retirement problem. You know how is that industry ever going to produce enough money to pay for this massive. Not quit to happen. All across the patch all those wells cleaned up the pipelines of them the the underground storage tanks above ground storage tanks. Any of these are related. I guess eventually somebody somebody playing cleaning up and you know the industry you know if it were robust and profitable industry you. Maybe they had the money to clean it up to take care of Sunday. But what we're seeing now isn't that is initially collapsing. Unable to produce enough cash just to play down this basic debts let alone to pay for cleanup. He's he can't pay for it. States will be left with that bill and many of them won't be able to afford cleanup either which means the public could be dealing with this mess for years of high time for the state regulators to realize that. They had a winning financial questions on their hand. They're the ones who are going to have to pay for cleanup a really good example of this is the California Air Resources Corporation which happens to own most of the oil wells in the county. I grew up in Ventura County. The Fast County in the lower forty-eight California Resources Corporation was spun off from Occidental Petroleum. Back in two thousand fourteen and according to some recent research from the. Aero working group it looks very much like Occidental spun a whole bunch of asset retirement obligations into a new company. So it doesn't have to account for them now. California Resources Corporation is staring down the barrel of bankruptcy which would leave California with billions of dollars in cleanup costs. The stimulus announced today doesn't earmark anything specifically for the oil and gas industry but it. Kinda doesn't have to. The trump administration has been a big friend to big oil all along and one of the first things treasury secretary. Steve Mnuchin talked about publicly with respect to the pandemic and financial aid was supporting the fossil fuel industry. Here he is on Fox business in early March now. Is it relates to the oil market. I mean let me let me just say this could not have occurred at eight worse. Time that this has nothing to do with the corona virus whatsoever so There's there's no question that there's both supply problem as well as the demand problem You know I'm going to tell the president that my recommendation is that he goes to Congress and ask for a lot more money to fill the strategic reserve at at twenty two dollars for WTI groot. We should be filling up the reserve for the next ten years. So you know. We are energy intended. Obviously if these prices we're going to have issues Producing Energy so go out and buy ten or twenty billion dollars oil. The American Petroleum Institute made it very clear to me that they have not asked for any money instead they sent president trump a letter with their deregulatory wishlist. First on the list was a request to have oil and gas sites designated as critical infrastructure. Here's Lucas Ross. With friends of the Earth again as the stimulus bill there is a five hundred billion dollars suspect but within that slush fund. You actually have four separate buckets. Five billion lending support or commercial airlines for billions lending support for aviation cargo carriers. And then you've got seventeen billion for industries deemed essential to national security. Now if you know what that means you're smarter than I is totally unclear. What an industry essential national security is. There is a broad understanding that this is likely a carve out for Boeing and the space sector given how often and how stubbornly the oil and gas industry has insisted it is essential to national security. It would not shock me at all. If they'd tried to get a hold of some of that seventy go you also have access to the larger pot of money of course when you're looking at a four hundred fifty four billion dollar slush funds largest single pot of money associated with the stimulus bill? That big oil is going to have clear access to a lot of these companies. Were hurting well. Before the corona virus started and a fresh injection of subsidized credit from trump's Tau Steve. Mnuchin is probably looking really enticing. Right now most importantly secretary mnuchin will have full discretion over what to do with these funds. The few guardrails that are in place can be waived whenever he wants discretion. That Steve Mnuchin has in implementing. The stimulus is unprecedented urge humane conditions associated with companies receiving a as part of the slush fund. The first one is a ban on stock buybacks until a year after the loan is satisfied. The second one is a requirement to maintain a current workforce or at least ninety percent of it until one year after the low dissatisfied. So in theory there are controls in place key that we keep a company from taking a loan from the federal government and then just firing their entire workforce taking the money and just plowing it right back into stop by backs to boost the price of their shares at the same time. One of the most frightening thing about this stimulus. Bill is a broad authority. Gives to secretary. Mnuchin wave those provisions is free to do so if he determines it is in the interest of the federal government do so the only requirement associated with his using that waiver authority in that he has to appear before. Congress to explain themselves so conceivably we clicked the in a situation where Exxon gets a fifty billion dollar loan. And Steve Mnuchin gets as you cycle so to recap. The federal government has prioritized helping industry over helping the public. It's given a longtime oil industry ally carte blanche in doling out funds and weaving conditions. Whenever he feels like it and the industry has access to close to five hundred billion dollars even though it is financially unstable will be facing an ongoing price war in his off looting all of its environmental impacts onto taxpayers free market at work. That's it for this time. I was going to take a break after season. Three but right now. I think it's really critical to keep reporting on climate accountability. So expect a lot of regular updates in your feed. If you'd like to support this reporting please go to our page on page. It's linked in the show notes and its patron dot com slash drilled. Thanks for listening. And we'll see you soon. Drilled is produced and distributed by critical frequency. The show is reported written and produced by me. Amy Westervelt our editorial adviser is Rica. Murthy music in this episode is from Martin Wissembourg special thanks to the Ari Working Group and Perrin Horton for research provided for this episode. We'll link to all sorts of resources in the show notes. If you want to follow up on this a bit more. You can find every. Get Your podcasts. And please remember to leave us a rating or review. It helps us find new listeners. Were also reporting on this issue on our website drilled news dot com. So go there for more and you can follow us on twitter at we are drilled. Thanks and we'll see you next time.

United States Steve Mnuchin federal government Saudi Arabia Russia Congress Big Industry Greg Rogers Amy Westervelt Lucas Ross
Bonus: Dumpster Drops

Cold

54:19 min | 1 year ago

Bonus: Dumpster Drops

"This podcast discusses domestic violence criminal behavior murder and adult themes while not explicit listener discretion is advised. I saw about a month before Susan Powell disappeared appeared. She hosted a party at her home. SARAH CIRCLE IN WEST VALLEY CITY UTAH. The party wasn't for a birthday or anything like that. It was a sales pitch. Susan become interested in a multilevel marketing company called wild tree. She wrote about it in an email to her work. Friend Linda Bagley in October. Tober of two thousand nine. I went to a wild tree party kind of interested in their product or just the menu concept wild tree pitched itself as a health oriented meal planning service purpose customers bought menus oils and herbs for wild tree recipes through representatives who in turn received price breaks for bringing additional buyers and sellers into the organization tempted by the prospect of getting wild tree for cheap. Susan agreed to host a party at her own home on the night of November fourth. Two thousand thousand nine. She urged Linda to come. It's settled. I'm having a party because Josh didn't get to taste it and it sounds like it would have something for you. Social missile sales pitches were not really Linda's kind of thing but she went along with it to help her friend. Linda even ended up ordering some wild food but in the days days and weeks that followed the party. Her package failed to arrive then. Susan disappeared when the wild tree product at last delivered delivered. It went to Josh Detectives Swarmed Susan's Office interviewing her co workers. Linda was among them and mentioned it in the to the police. They had this product and that she hadn't given me and I said I probably never see it so but I had gotten justice number and I called him and I left my voice mail in her voice mail. Linda asked if there was any way she might be able to pick up her food order. Josh didn't respond. He had other things things on his mind at that point less than two weeks after his wife's disappearance Josh packed up their sons Charlie and breaking into the family minivan and headed to Washington state. Linda figured that was the end of it then a month after her friend vanished. Something strange happened to win. I was taking can the weekend off so I was in Idaho at Costco with my mom. Actually and the phone rings I look at the number. And it says Josh Powell and what do I say what do I do. I got a call and so I answered the phone. And he said he'd found the stuff and he would be happy to drop but off. Linda told Josh she was out of town but he wasn't bothered. He said he was back in Utah for a few days and would drop it off at her work. As I've recently certainly learned it was one of many many droughts. Josh made after his wife vanished. this is a bonus episode of cold dumpster drops. I'm Dave Collie back after a word from our sponsors on the afternoon of January seventh. Two thousand ten Josh Powell stopped by the Wells Fargo Call Center where his missing wife Susan had worked. He ran into a security guard in the lobby and explained He. We had a package that he wanted to deliver to Linda. Bagley but Linda was in Idaho as she had told Josh on the phone. I don't know if he didn't believe me and he was testing to see if I just didn't WanNa see him or something but he asked for me even though I told him I wasn't going to be there. The security guard said Josh could leave the package with the head head of security but that person was out of the office at the moment. Josh said he would wait and so he did write in the lobby. Word spread among Susan's Co workers. What is your emergency? One even called nine one one Josh. How they're not building his josh? Gosh Cal will you news the guy that supposedly abducted his wife when camping with the kids. Okay I mean he's not causing any problems but I've we've seen them all over the news and stuff and he's sitting down in our lobby sitting there. The CO worker told a Salt Lake City police dispatcher. It might be a good idea idea if detectives in neighboring West Valley New Josh was there. The dispatcher called West Valley to ask Josh was wanted. As far as I'm aware He's just a person of interest in the last. I heard you wouldn't I mean just between you and I wasn't even living here. So yeah that's what I I mean. I heard things just through work but nine anything. I don't watch the news to see what they're saying because who knows anyway so yeah. The truth of the situation was West Valley. Detectives detectives had a good idea of where Josh was thanks to A. GPS tracker they had hidden on his minivan but that was a closely guarded secret when Lynda returned to work her boss's boss asked her to come in for sit down with the head of security. And so like okay and the security the guy came in and he says Josh Pal stopped by and wanted to give this to you. And can you tell me more about what's going on here I. I was Linda receiving a gift from Josh Powell. I think they suspected me for a minute is being in a maybe a mistress or another. Oh here's the sideline. Oh look we. We found this new possible thing that you know. The head of security told Linda. Josh had acted very odd even becoming emotional he asked her. Why maybe you know more about? Why would feel that way you know? And I'm like maybe he was thanking me because I didn't accuse you know Oh came out is trying to be neutral and on his side like it wasn't hadn't done anything even though I suspected I felt from the beginning that he had done everything everything that I still feel. Linda did her best to explain. It was not a gift. Just some product from a multi level marketing thing. She had gone to. She eventually had to explain that again to West Valley Police. Oh okay but I think they suspect something more than there was I mentioned the. GPS tracker detectives placed on Josh's Minivan on December eighth two thousand nine the day after he he returned from his outing on the pony express trail claiming to have no clue where Susan might be. So who's got the GPS tracker on his van. Detective Ellis Maxwell West. Valley's he's lead investigator on the Powell case talked about the tracker and episodes four and five of cold. It's how police had known. Josh took that drive out to west Wendover Nevada and to a gravel pit on the Friday after Susan's disappearance curious behavior that ultimately led detectives nowhere. You're just another situation another possibility that we may catch a break or collects more information in to assist with the investigation and He does nothing. The particular device tucked away on Joshua's minivan wasn't just some Garmin unit attached with duct tape. It had a rugged case and specialized battery capable of powering. The tracker for weeks at a time it also had a cell phone radio you so it could communicate with server anytime it was within range of Cell Towers. We've got as called geofencing and you can set boundaries so if he crosses one of those boundaries than it will send you an alert detectives would actually receive SMS text messages when the tracker left salt. Salt Lake County or crossed state lines for example every fix recorded by the tracker included a time stamp right down to the second. If the trackers stopped moving could power itself down to save battery then if detected motion it could power itself back up again and the police could log into the server and see the trackers position in very close to real time data from that. GPS tracker was not included in the case file documents released by West Valley Police. When the Powell case went cold in Two thousand thirteen to my knowledge it's never been examined by anyone outside have law enforcement when I obtained copies of the tracking files several months back? That's what I set out to do former. FBI Agent Greg. Rogers spent most of his thirty years with the bureau serving undercover recover. He worked narcotics cases. He infiltrated biker. Gangs and militia groups. He posed as a hitman repeatedly. You'd be amazed how much work there is in that area. To be honest he kind of still looks the part longer gray hair leather vest. Though it's now under a sports coat I shared my findings from the review of the GPS data with Gregg in part. Because he did not work. The Powell case himself I needed an objective perspective from someone who knows the tech and the tactics. Police departments have analysts. That should have been their job. Where's he going whereas he stopped? Stop it and then the next logical question is why is he doing that. And what are we GONNA do. Based on his activity. Greg is also an expert on the criminal mind he he teaches a course at Utah Valley University to would be cops. Id John Criminal Profiling and the serial killers psychopaths. So it's always. I spent a real undermined by the time Greg. I sat down to talk. I'd already spent weeks going through the data in December. Two thousand nine alone the. GPS device device recorded tens of thousands of data points to make sense of them. They need to be reformatted twice. Only then could I bring the information information into Google Earth. With all of the Meta data intact it's tedious work. point-by-point I retraced the vans moves looking for or anything that might have escaped the attention of investigators ten years ago. Some of the trip at first seemed random until I noticed a pattern. Having to do with dumpsters posters the first significant discovery appeared on Monday December. Fourteenth two thousand nine one week after Susan disappeared the GPS tracker powered up just after ten. Am that morning having detected motion it. It moved west away from the Powell family home on Sarah Circle Down Forty one hundred south to a state highway on the far western side of the Salt Lake Valley called. You won eleven. The minivan turned left onto. You won eleven. At a t intersection heading south. It cruised along for about six smiles until it reached seventy eight hundred south there get pulled into an apartment complex called saying Getty Springs at ten in twenty three a m. The minivan pulled up to a dumpster in a back corner of the complex and stopped less than a minute. Later it started moving again. It went directly back to Sarah Circle. I showed this to Greg and asked what he made of it. My guess would be that Powell had items that he believed contained DNA other forensic evidence and he's getting rid of them based on the time and the fact that it's a condo complex people are coming and going. It wouldn't look unusual for him to get out of the car with the garbage bags. We told him in a dumpster. Just like anybody that lives there. Be a whole different thing. Be Trying to remove a body from your car put in a dumpster so my guess is. He was using that dumpster to get rid of items from the home. Where where I of course believe that he murdered Susan that would be my first guest that he was getting rid of whatever he used in that he's obviously had done enough research research to know what would contain DNA in what could be harming to him? He must have believed. There was a search warrant coming. In fact West Valley Police had already served to you. Search warrants at the home. They also searched Josh's van twice the week prior once with his permission in the second time with a warrant. It was during the warrant search of the mini van the day after Susan disappeared that detective. LS Maxwell found a pair of trash bags when we get his van. Not only did it clean it all out but he also had the garbage from inside the kitchen of the home. The garbage sack was in the van. The second trash bag tucked away in a storage space behind the mini vans. Driver's seat held the melted metal item and burned drywall. Panels mentioned in cold episode. Five the likely glee evidence that Joshua destroyed the night before with his oxyacetylene torch. LS believed Josh had intended to toss those trash bags. It's somewhere far away from the house where detectives would not find them. But Ellis found them. I based on the GPS data it. It seems likely Josh had yet other items he wanted to ditch in a dumpster days later Back to the tracking data on the afternoon of Wednesday December sixteenth. Two thousand nine. The minivan left this Air Circle House on another another drive across the Salt Lake Valley. This time it went south and east. It took a circuitous path into sandy a suburb bourbon nestled against the foot of the wasatch mountains at three zero two PM. The minivan pulled into a parking stall at flat. Iron Mesa. Park the same thing dumpster. It's no accident that these are not close to his residence. Another dumpster flour made. This is a big dog walking park. There's Lotta people there. There's going to be a ton of cars. You could pull their anytime. He wanted to walk over that dumpster and would attract attention at all. He's not showing up at midnight. He's he's not trying to Be there when nobody's there. He doesn't care he's picking places where he could open the back of his car grab. Garbage bag walked with dumpster and wouldn't raise any suspicion suspicion at all the minivan left park at three. Oh Four PM after a stop of just two minutes. It headed north to the intersection of nine hundred east. I am forty five hundred south. The Mini van came to a stop within line of sight of another dumpster behind a walgreens pharmacy. The minivans minivan circled the walgreens slowing as it went by the dumpster. But it didn't actually stop that's by business that's not by a residential neighborhood Ruder Park. I bet there's probably some signing John Dumpster that it's not for public use or something like that he didn't want to attract attention so he didn't want to pull up there and put something but in that dumpster because somebody could have walked out of that business and said hey man that's that's our business and then they grabbed the bag. That's a problem for him. So my guess is he got up there and saw but that was walled in and it wasn't publicly accessible so he just kept driving right into downtown Salt Lake City. At five hundred South End emory street. It pulled into the parking lot of a church and once again cruised by but did not stop at a dumpster looking at satellite imagery. Greg noticed that dumpster outside the church was surrounded by a wall and fence. You can see that has got doors on it that are closed. They may be locked. He'd already decided what dumpsters what types the the dumpsters he was gonNA use. And if you didn't like what he saw he just kept driving. He didn't have to be anywhere instead of stopping at the church. The tracking data showed the minivan hopped a couple of blocks south south to poplar Grove Park. It pulled into the parking lot at four five PM and remained there for about twelve minutes. He obviously had more than one bag. He hit more than one dumpster. He had things all divvied up. He had a plan that he thought was genius. I'm going to hide the stuff. The cops are never going to figure this out now. There aren't any dumpsters at Poplar Grove Park but on any day of the week any time of year there are plenty of garbage cans public public place other cars there. People probably walking their dogs around there and as you well know when people are walking their dogs they pick up after their dogs. They use the garbage cans. Wouldn't be at at all unusual to walk up almost garbage cans though bagging three confirmed stops near dumpsters or garbage cans with several other dumpster drive bys during the first I two weeks following Susan's disappearance yet. There are no mentions of this in West Valley. Police case files question is why wouldn't somebody on him and why aren't they going through those dumpsters. The following day on Thursday December seventeenth two thousand nine West Valley. Police served their third search warrant at the Sarah Circle House. Josh wasn't home at the time. But he'd left his boys there with his brother. Michael the GPS tracker revealed. Josh did not go far. The minivan circled the neighborhood around the time detectives appeared at the House. It parked outside of one church. Then another to Greg it appeared. Josh was keeping an eye on the investigators. Peters has an obvious need to be Up to speed with what's going on because a guy like Josh thinks he's Immeasurably smarter than these people that are are working around the work in that case. So he's just keeping tabs as the detectives tore through Josh Susan's medicine cabinet. The minivan headed east up. Forty one hundred south to myron marsh professional therapies. It stopped there for over an hour and a half. That's the physical therapy visit during. Which Josh was diagnosed with rotator cuff strain or tear an injury that escaped the notice of police later that afternoon Josh went to the bank where Susan and had kept her? Handwritten last will and testament in a safe deposit box. Detectives had been there days earlier emptying out the box. Josh bent more than an hour at the bank arranging to have Susan's retirement accounts cashed out on his way home. He drove by another dumpster outside site. Hunter junior high school then parked across the lot from it for twenty minutes. Josh spent a good chunk of Friday December. Eighteenth two thousand nine meeting with his attorney in downtown Salt Lake City the tracking data showed the mini van. Parked worked outside the attorney's Office for over three hours on his way back home. Josh stopped at the Mountain America. Credit Union branch on fifty six hundred heard West and West Valley city. That's where he and Susan did. Most of their banking financial records obtained by police with a subpoena showed. That's when Josh withdrew Susan's dozens final paycheck. which had come in a week earlier by direct deposit? He took out four hundred fifty dollars of it as cash and moved the remaining meaning. Two hundred twenty seven dollars into his checking account. Josh was preparing to leave Utah. He was getting ready to go no question. He's getting ready to go after after those search warrants. There's nothing for him here. You know he's GonNa lose his job you know. It was a lifelong pattern of his to retreat to his father's house. And so that that was gonNA happen. Josh departed home shortly before ten pm that night. The tracker showed that he drove to the parking lot of strip mall at fifty six hundred West and thirty five hundred south. He parked next to a pair of dumpsters from nine fifty six. PM to nine fifty nine PM. Anything he thought could hurt him in those search warrants. He he had bagged up and ready to go and so he's just he's just getting rid of stuff then. The minivan headed north toward interstate. Eighty then get begs the question. How do you do that when they're running? Search warrants horns and following you around and doing dumpster dives after you've been there we don't know whether or not West Valley police ever did. Dive these dumpsters. But but if so they did not take any photos or keep any notes in an email. Police spokeswoman Roxanne by Nuku told me quote the absence of a location being documented documented in a log does not equate to investigators being unaware of the location just before reaching the freeway on ramp. The minivan flipped U-TURN. It went right back to that. Same set of dumpsters had josh forgotten something or perhaps he was checking to see if police were. They're digging through the garbage. They weren't but Greg couldn't understand why not when I showed him the tracking data. If you suspect that he's going to all these dumpsters and you see all this tracking thing. The next thought should be. We need to find out what he's on in there. You don't even search warrants once. He chucks in the dumpster. It's you can dumpster dive unless police didn't happen to be watching the tracker. At that time. Somebody should have been their whole job. Should have been this tracker tracker again. West Valley Police spokeswoman rocks and Vine Nuku by email told me quote any location where Powell visited was subsequently visited by an investigator investigator. She added that during periods. When Josh was not under physical surveillance the tracking data was downloaded quote each day? When you've got got this tracker on him it's easy surveillance you're not going to get burned because you don't need to be you know following him closely in a car you could have planes up or you could even be the Emol Away with your laptop? You're saying Oh look just hit another dumpster and then you send guys that dumpster after one last. Stop at the Sarah Circle House. The mini van made its way back to the freeway. It took the on ramp to eastbound. I eighty at ten forty two p. m. a late start for the long drive to Washington. The the mini van cruised east to fifteen then north. Josh stopped for gas at a pilot travel center. In the town of Mariot Slater Ville paying cash cash then continued north to Tremont when he took the split for. I eighty four westbound there. The clock ticked past asked midnight at twelve twenty two a. m. on Saturday December nineteenth. Two thousand nine. The minivan pulled off the Freeway Anyway on Utah Exit Twenty just east of Rattlesnake Pass. It stopped briefly next to some roadside weeds crossed under the freeway. Anyway doubled back then took the westbound on ramp at twelve twenty eight. AM TO GREG. It looked like perhaps josh or one of the boys always had just needed to relieve himself. pitstop which is probably what happened but you could have also been cleaning himself because he's leaving unannounced they've just run all these warrants. I'm sure he had some suspicion that they were following him. See if he was taken off you might have even believed that They would attempt to arrest him if he was trying to leave the state who knows but having traveled with young children myself it could just easily been a dad you know. The mini minivan crossed the border into Idaho at twelve. Forty four a m the. GPS tracker sent out a text alert to the detectives in West Valley case records. Detective Else Maxwell wrote the tracker Lost Cell Service Short time later Josh continued driving. There's very little to see between the town of Snowville. Utah and the Snake River near Rupert Idaho. Especially after dark no towns no truck stops and in two thousand nine limited cell service but after crossing the snake at one thirty one a M. The minivan entered turn fertile expanse of southern Idaho farmland between Burley and bliss. It's a region known as the Magic Valley. The Minivan van cruised right past a pair of off ramps leading to burley logical places for a driver to pull off if gas or pit. Stop where needed at one forty four. AM The minivan came to an abrupt stop at the side of the highway. It remained there for ten minutes too short a time to sleep. We're even say change a flat tire. So why did Josh Stop. It's not clear the josh pullback onto the roadway at one fifty four A. M. Continuing West the mini van passed by another freeway exit without stopping. It traveled seven miles until at two zero one eight. Am Josh slammed on the brakes. Breaks right is he passed over the top of the milner. gooding can now. It was a rapid deceleration for more than seventy miles per hour to a full stop about three hundred thirty five feet past the bridge. The minivan remained there for five minutes to strange stops in southern Idaho just before and just after two a am. Those are unusual time for a pit. Stop for the kids. My guess is the age of those two boys. They were asleep. So it's it's very interesting. It's by canals. A great place a place to dump something. Nobody's ever going to find that if you know what you're doing. The canal in question diverts water from the Snake River to farms and ranches it typically only flows from mid March to mid October. I recently visited the site. The canal was not flowing having been shut off for the winter. Still a foot or so of murky. Green water occupied the bottom of the concrete lined. Trench thick high weeds surrounded its banks. Anything tossed into those weeds. Were into the canal itself would disappear from view of the traffic. Just feet away on the freeway. I wouldn't be the least bit surprised if he was still just getting rid of whatever he was getting rid of because we have no idea what the murder weapon was knife gun. We know he's not Posed to killing someone in a violent manner because he killed his children with an axe but could have been a ligature could have been a a rope. you throw a rope in that canal. It's gone it's never been found in. Six minutes is plenty of time to walk from that car that water. This is speculation. There is no evidence left to tell us one way or another. What Josh Powell was doing during these two stops but at the time and location are suspicious? We clearly had some reason for doing it. And he didn't want people to know where he was stopping the times he was doing stuff and Again he he had a plan that will never know what it was but I can assure you that he thought it was absolutely brilliant. Wasn't getting track but so he didn't. We know that he was getting tracked. But these two stops in Idaho and the December dumpster visits in. Utah are not mentioned in West Valley Police case files. I'm not sure if they were ever discovered by investigators or searched by dogs or detectives a decade ago. Oh from the beginning. Everybody knew this was going to be a case. You're going to have to prove on circumstantial evidence. The chances of finding the body were very slim. I should point out both locations. Locations are well within the range of the eight hundred seven. Miles traveled by Josh in a rental car. Ten days earlier you might remember. He was unaccounted for eighteen hours. Where's he came back on the grid while traveling South through tremont in Utah as if returning from Idaho proving a first degree murder? You're beyond a reasonable doubt out. The body without a murder weapon is difficult so but had you found bags full of forensic evidence that he's getting getting rid of as pretty helpful. I wasn't aware that they have this tracking information and to be brutally honest being polite. It's it's stunning. He was getting rid of evidence. No question the the remainder of Josh Powell's December two thousand nine drive to Washington state proved uneventful. He pulled off at a couple of rest stops likely to sleep and he started using his financial cards again once he was in Washington state. A few weeks passed before Josh returned to Utah in the minivan on that drive in early January of two thousand ten the mini van did not make any inexplicable stops on the side of the highway. It only ever left the interstate for gas. Ask Fast Food or pitstops. Josh arrived back at this Era Circle House with his brother. Michael on January sixth two thousand ten and media cameras were waiting when they pulled into the cul de sac. I had been keeping very close contact with a lot of sources who knew him and People who were very in the know I guess family members of both he and Susan and close family friends. KSL TV reporter. Jennifer STAGG had had worked the Powell story. From the beginning she had received a heads up from a source about Joshua's travel plans. I was so personally invested in the story because I had built relationships with everyone involved. You know I had a relationship with his sister Jennifer graves. I had a relationship with the Hellos. Josh wasn't feeling talkative. He avoided the cameras the next day he dropped off Linda Bagley wild tree order at Susan's work as I mentioned at the start of this episode then on the morning of Monday January eleventh two thousand ten Josh drove the minivan from the Circle House to a strip mall at fifty six hundred West and thirty thirty five hundred south. This was the same place where he'd stopped on his way out of town. In December once again the mini van made repeat visits to a series of dumpsters terse. And once again there's no indication. These dumpsters were searched by police to be fair. The media didn't catch it either. He was really really really hard to track. But of course no reporter had a GPS tracker hidden on the mini Van. The Mini van also visited a u haul store on on that Monday morning. That's where Josh rented the truck and trailer. He used to empty out the house. The turning point for me was when he packed up and moved out of his house. House once again. Josh did not talk to the reporters who stood at the curb observing as his soon to be former neighbors. Loaded the U-HAUL. I think I actually asked Tim at one point like if Susan's missing. What if she comes home? And you're not here. What if she comes home? And you're not here and he didn't answer me he just kept going but in in my head. That's what I'm thinking like. You don't pack up Your House and move out of state with your kids if your wife is missing right when Josh and Michael Departed Utah in the U. Haul. They left Josh's minivan in the garage of the Circle House. The GPS tracker went dormant this next period in late January. Because Win Josh's sister Jennifer Graves went to confront him in Washington while wearing a wire in that recording. Josh discussed discussed the drive in the U.. Haul like Dr Part of the women. He told his brother-in-law Kirk graves that he and Michael had traded off time the wheel Mike Place driving from my reading from chocolate. I'm just kidding. Probably find the truck so it is Josh needed to get his minivan back and he needed to finish. Finish getting the Utah House ready for renters. So Josh Boorda Southwest Airlines flight on the evening of Thursday January twenty eight two thousand ten before flying out of SEATAC. He called his Utah. Neighbors John and Ken Kesey Hellawell. He asked them to pick him up from Salt Lake City international which they agreed to do. I was thinking if I tried to pretend to be his friend still and stay on his good side he has a lot more chance talking to me than if I scream in his face and grabbed his coat and say where Susan Suzanne but John and Ken were playing. Both sides cure see sent an email to West Valley police detective. LS Maxwell to let him know. Josh was coming back into town. John sent a text to Jennifer stag. I mean nobody wanted to get to the truth more than they did right and so they very much were working with me closely Lee and so yeah they were like come be here at this time. joshes flight arrived at about nine thirty PM. Jennifer and ATV photographer. We're waiting. I kind of wanted him to know that we were keeping close tabs without spooking ham. And then yeah we head over to baggage claim and waited for for him to come down that escalator the escalator she's talking about carries passengers down from the TSA security checkpoint to the baggage carousels and you can see everything below and I have jet black hair. I'm pretty recognizable and the minute. His eyes on me you saw like it was like a ghost. He went white and he knew why I was there. We made eye contact. Yeah we met I contact and he was like. Oh my gosh you saw this moment of like what is happening and I think at that moment. He realized that we were following him. Like we were tracking everything that we could that he was doing and it definitely spooked him. This baggage Carousel to commence operation in ten seconds. Please stand clear. There's nowhere to hide and it puts you kind of right in the middle of the action at the bottom of the escalator so there was no way getting around talking to me in some way. Josh had no I need to wait around. He didn't check a bag or even pack the toothbrush. He dodged Jennifer's questions while looking for John Hellawell. I realized pretty fast. He was not going to talk to me and then he just be out of there. Josh turned to John and asked. How did they find out? John replied someone on the plane and most have recognized you and called in Josh's absence Susan's friends and neighbors had plastered the front of the Sarah Circle House with Purple Ribbons and paper hearts paint on the windows carried messages. Like we miss you and we love you Susan Signs on the Front lawn read. We will find you and we will bring you home. These messages confronted Josh. When he arrived at the house he took out his camera and took photos of the decorations the next day West Valley police obtained another search warrant for Josh's minivan on the prior searches? They had failed to pull the air filter from the engine. Bay Detectives hoped the filter and jams might hold dust or particles that could show where the van had been when Susan disappeared. They took the minivan to serve the warrant. Josh complained to his dad about it. As Steve Powell later told the FBI. I got there. They wanted his band again and they took the air filter out. I guess and don't ask you what that's all about. Since he's gone all the way from Utah Utah to Puyallup back in the band since this tragedy began with the air filter didn't hold anything useful awful but the warrant service wasn't a total bust while police had the van the FBI also planted a second GPS tracker on it. This was a major win for police because their original court order authorizing the GPS tracking was due to expire in just days the federal federal order for the second tracker extended that ability for at least another month and a half. Unfortunately I don't have the tracking files from the F. B. I.'s device in the final date for which currently have tracking data is February seventh. Two thousand ten. That date happens to be an important one just after midnight on that Sunday morning the mini van made its wing north up fifty six hundred hundred West as if it were headed. Susan's work or interstate. Eighty this time. It didn't go either of those places. Instead the minivan turned west onto California Avenue. It went about a half a mile stopping just shy of the entrance to the salt. Lake Valley solid waste landfill. It pulled into a small parking lot under high voltage power pole. A green sign at the entrance of the fenced. Lot read recycling drop off center the minivan pulled up to a set of large industrial dumpsters and stopped. It remained there for fourteen minutes afterward. Josh grab some del Taco and drove back to the Sarah Circle House then. He hit the road for Washington another other late night departure. The mini van made three unusual stops as it passed through we valley in those early morning. Hours I it. Exit Northbound fifteen at Twelfth Street turned around and jumped right back on the freeway. It did the same thing at the next next exit to the North Pioneer road. I showed this to Greg Rogers the former FBI undercover agent. That this looks like cleaning to me cleaning cleaning Josh. Making sure he was not being followed. The third and most important stop came at twenty seven hundred north in the community of far are west. The minivan left the freeway and drove directly to the backside of a Burger restaurant. It pulled up to a dumpster next. The minivan moved east. It drove into the lot of a plumbing supply store and once again stopped at a dumpster. Remember this is a full take months into the search for Susan Classic Paranoia even though this is later. They're still searching his vehicle and he is thinking all day every day about what. What could they find in my house or am I any of my cars anywhere else that they could put on me? So that's what he's doing. He's just coming up with breath stuff. He hadn't thought of earlier. Police had served three search warrants at Josh Susan's House. They had searched his van repeatedly and Josh made multiple suspicious trips to dumpsters. What could he have possibly still had to dispose of at that point at this stage of the game? He's already gotten rid of anything he thinks it's got DNA honor that's linking him to the homicide but that doesn't mean he doesn't have other stuff that he doesn't want that law enforcement ever fine and as we know from his father's behavior in his hiding an S. D. Card in your house. Finding that on a search torrent. That's tough you don't have to be very bright to hide that words not going to be located by law enforcement. He could have had stuff like that from who knows what wait His his his father's predilections with cameras or well known it could've been something that simple which is very easy to hide much more difficult to locate in West Valley. Police did catch. A whiff of what Josh was up to or at least a small piece of it case records show that the next morning detective. Detective David Greco logged in to check the tracking data. He noticed the midnight stop at the recycling drop off near the county landfill. Police rushed out to inspect the site. They peered into each of the dumpsters one for cardboard one for plastic one for glass but but no evidence unfortunately the case records suggest they missed catching the stops at the dumpsters farther north out of town in the Weaver Valley looking at the data now ten years after Susan's disappearance it seems critical oversight when when I notified West Valley Police of these findings. Police spokeswoman Roxanne Vaenuhu told me by email quote the hindsight of a reporter in two thousand nineteen and does not always equate to mistakes made by investigators a decade ago. I'll be the first to admit it's a lot easier to see this stuff in hindsight hindsight once you know what you're looking for. Detectives at the time had a lot on their plates. They were already out. Searching minds interviewing and reinterviewing friends and neighbors serving subpoenas and poring over records I asked Greg if GPS tracking might sometimes hindes lead overworked investigators to feel they have a safety net. That's one way to look it's incorrect. Greg explained it's not enough in criminal cases to just show uh-huh where a person went. It has to be backed up with other evidence. Like photos is on surveillance. A wiretap or a dumpster dive to recover discarded evidence but think about all of the dumpsters described in this episode. There's a pattern of behavior. There certainly prosecutors could have used that against Josh in a criminal trial right they bring it up but you know the defense attorney would say good Defense Council Council. Get up on cross examination right after the some COP said he went to this. Dumpster went to that dumpster. I wouldn't WanNa be that police officer because the question you're going to get on crosses will. Did you check what he put the dumpster. Did you actually see him. Put anything in the dumpster. Can you say for sure that he even did. Put anything in the dumpster. The answer to all those questions is no new. Prosecutor may not bring it up for that reason because they know you're going to get pounded for not checking those dumpsters. That's A. That's a huge misstep. A few minutes ago I mentioned the decorations Susan's friends and neighbors had placed outside the Sarah Circle House in Josh's absence. We can only only guess what he must have thought when he saw them. Clearly it's targeted no doubt a hate campaign. Apparently we don't have to guess. Josh recorded this video to tell us exactly what he thought of all those posters flyers and ribbons and we believe that that is because they wanted want spread. Josh filmed at this from the driver's seat of his minivan after returning to Washington in February. He and his brother Michael drove around their neighbourhood noting. How people well had taped flyers with Susan's name and face to mailboxes light poles and signposts? This may Josh angry because the flyers were placed where he was sure to see them so clearly. It's not an effort to fine Susan. It's clearly a targeted effort to act as a reminder for us on our neighbors at one point in this video. Josh even described the flyers as an assault. Charlie Braid. Don't understand why the people keep keep doing this and they don't really need to understand the whole situation and it's sick for these people to try to push this situation on them again. Josh recorded this in Washington not Utah but it sheds light on how he reviewed the broader communities response to Susan's disappearance. He believed the so-called hate campaign. Went Back to one man Susan's Susan's Dad. Probably early Chuck Cox needs to get his organization under control if he doesn't know about this fine but he will be aware aware of it soon because we're going to tell them. Josh Powell made one other drive between Washington and Utah. That deserves a closer look. I mentioned it in episode nine of cold it. It occurred just before Mother's Day in May of two thousand ten. You might remember. Police were surveilling Josh. He made an unexpected trip from his dad's house to to this Era Circle House Josh left the House and we started to follow him and we followed him all the way back to Salt Lake City. So that was I mean. I literally drove the Washington one day then the next day that's US Marshal Daryl Spencer who took part in the operation with West Valley officers extremely hard to watch him because no he's of course driving exactly sixty five miles an hour the whole way and to follow someone clandestine secretively through multi-state was extremely difficult but we did it. The FBI's tracking order was expiring. We can lose them because we didn't know where he was going or what he was doing. What Josh was doing was grabbing the last of his and Susan's personal belongings from the Sarah Circle House as Josh approached the Salt Lake Valley on? Utah's Legacy Parkway. He started snapping photos on an icon. DSL ES L. are from the driver's seat of his minivan. Police didn't realize this until more than a year later after. They seized Josh's computers from his dad's home with a search warrant aren't on August twenty fifth. Two thousand eleven. That's when they recovered copies of those photos. The pictures Josh took have never been released. I I was able to retrieve copies with the help of digital forensics experts Trent Levitt and Kaley Richmond from the firm Bailey. They donated time time expertise and equipment to the effort. The Camera Josh used did not have. GPS capability so there are no coordinates hidden in the METADATA. But but I've managed to Geo locate all of them using a combination of Google Earth and street view. Imagery they show. Josh did not drive directly to his and Susan's home in West Valley Valley. Instead he I put into the International Center a business park west of Salt Lake City International Airport. He took a few photos in the parking lot of an office. Spilling on Wright brothers drive then went around the block to the wells. Fargo Call Center where Susan had worked time stamps on the photos show. He only stayed there for about two minutes then. He drove to his old work at Aspen. Logistics all along the way Josh took pictures nothing in particular just streets road signs and traffic same thing after he left Aspen and drove to the Circle House. Pictures of nothing. Josh packed the minivan to the Brim when he departed for Washington late that same night. A roof box and an old bicycle were on top. A tow hitch. Cargo carrier hung off the back back loaded down with two large blue plastic barrels. Police Tailed Josh into Idaho. Keeping an eye from a distance but made it extremely easy Z.. To watch him from a distance because you had the large fifty five gallon drum on top of a minivan you know northbound sixty five so that the Gandara was there to help us out. Police surveillance logs show Josh pulled off of. I eighty four at exit. One Ninety four in southern Idaho at about two twenty a m. He slept there until ten thirty A. M. That exit is just two miles beyond the canal. Where Josh Stop for five minutes at two? AM on his December. Two thousand nine drive to Washington after waking on that may morning Josh. Josh preceded westbound on eighty four toward boise. He'd only gone about ten miles before he stopped. He took his camera. Stepped tapped out of the mini van and walked into the weeds alongside the interstate. Josh took four photos of a farmer's field on it were irrigation sprinklers covered in ice. Maybe it's a clue or maybe it's Unrelated to anything having to do with Susan. He could have been driving by this. Some fight is is unusual as it would seem to you and I he could be driving by then go Alex Alex Cool and and he believes he's phenomenal photographer and he likes the ice. It's coming off the wheels watering stuff and so he's Gals I'm thinking Greg Rogers the former FBI undercover agent told me he doesn't believe Josh's brain functioned the way yours or mine. Might you have to understand he. He has no remorse at all for killing killing Susan. All of this happening to him. Now it's just inconvenient but it has nothing to do with him filling badly about what he did so if he sees something that interests him so you know. I wouldn't be the least bit surprised when you saw. That was cool. Pick a few hours down. The road and Josh stopped again. This time in Oregon north of Ontario in in rural mail your county. He shot more photos of the scenery at the side of the road. I mentioned these shots in episode fifteen of cold. Since that time I've had the opportunity to visit the site myself. It sits at the crest of a hill surrounded by more more hills ranch land of the old Oregon Trail Evista bare of trees. To to the east the land falls away into a tributary of the Snake River called Wheel Gulch. Josh took eleven pictures here. Many of his van others of the landscape one of a soaring Hawk the photos have not previously been published. But you can see them right now at the cold. PODCAST DOT COM. Ask yourself as you look at them. What might have josh been thinking? As he stood there wind in his hair road noise roaring behind him was this just I his art. That would make perfect sense to him to you. I would think wow. How can you be interested in art or photography or you murdered? Did your wife brutally but to absolute psychopathic. That doesn't that's just an inconvenient fact. If you or someone you know is experiencing domestic abuse in any form please. He's get immediate help in the. US support is a phone. Call Away at the national domestic violence hotline at one. Eight hundred seven nine nine seven to three three or online at www dot the hotline dot. Org If you'd like to support cold please subscribe in your podcast. CAST APP of choice and consider leaving us a rating or review. All of those help us reach new listeners. You can also find us on facebook instagram Ram and twitter at the cold podcast and we have a website with articles pictures and video the cold podcast dot com. Michael Bonn Miller composed the music for cold except for the guitar stuff that was me the. KSL PODCASTS team includes too many people to name here but my special thanks. Thanks to our leader Cheryl Worsley to our TV producer. Kira Fairmont to our radio producer Becky Bruce Digital Specialist Josh Tilton and my fellow podcast producers Nina Ernest Daniel. Prager cold is a production of K._S._l.. podcasts thank you for listening.

Josh Josh Susan Josh Powell West Valley Police Greg Rogers UTAH West Valley Salt Lake City Josh Stop Sarah Circle House Josh Detectives Josh Pal Washington Idaho Michael Bonn Miller Linda Bagley FBI Josh bent Utah
Mason and Ireland (HR 3)

Mason & Ireland

1:08:22 hr | 2 years ago

Mason and Ireland (HR 3)

"Heidi s._p._n. Elaine mason and ireland we are live from the oh see it is day three of o see. We get your body back on track fast. Get rid of those unwanted inches visit freeze the fat fat with dr grant stevens his whole team marina plastic surgery visit freeze the fat dot com all right john one side of the coin. Keyshawn is the winner of tonight's joust on the other side of the coin. I am the master joust her call. I've never seen you succeed in anything. Athletically give me heads aw heads mythical money coming. My way always said jousting is my game well. We're about to find out j. all right guys n._f._l. Players always make a big deal out of their madden video game raid yeah. The new game is out and they're only seven even players that have a rating of ninety eight or higher four guys up in ninety nine. Three guys have a ninety eight. Let's see how many of the seven you can get three strikes and you're out so you greg rogers hanging around whatever eugenicist here whoever earned donald donald is the number one ninety nine on the he's one of the four guys that have a ninety nine very good what he's saying ezekiel acing ezekiel elliott you wanna you wanna guess zeke i strike no is using our game. Journey strike hit the ball off to the pool so he's got one right and you've got one strike. We think like j. j. watt j._j. Watt i would go. Let's school wide receiver wide receiver antonio tonio brown that is correct 'antonio brand ninety eight. He's one of the three people that have ninety eight. So how many do we have left. You have five left and you only have one strike. Oh good call is ben ben. You go that khalil. Mack is right ben conroy on roy so now you have two of the four that have ninety nine. I was going to give you give you a hint for the other two ones a wide receiver fever and one's a linebacker and the linebacker is obscure. I was surprised linebacker was on there but you got the two obvious ones aaron donald and khalil mack when there's a wide receiver and areas aries eight line jones no odell down andre andre hopkins saint andre hopkins that is correct to elicit andrea up with the i got four four of the seven the one the one guy you're missing that has the ninety nine is a linebacker sure. I'll say he plays what would not give it away. He plays on the west coast okay. He plays on the west coast win of the ninety eight. There are two of them and you've already mentioned one of the names but j._j. Watt j._j. Watt is strike to what is only all you over here. I think ben conrad's got lawrence from dallas to go with go with will but it was well joey bosa. You're out things that don't make the other. The other ninety nine is bobby wagner from this okay and and then the two thousand eight you didn't get mace wanted to but you guys didn't jump in julio jones <hes> out of it and the other one luke keithly has a ninety percent ninety seven todd gurley patrick mahomes von miller and j._j. Watt ninety six. Tom brady odell beckham junior and travis travis kelsey at the seven hundred ninety eight. You guys got four sub guys up very seriously all right jimmy j. there. You go jimmy kimmel teaming up with mark burnett to produce a new game show for a._b._c. called generation gap described as a comedy quiz show that brings family members together to compete as a team using using that as a jumping off point for you. What is the best game show of all time the best game show of all time the one that i would watch the most was that was the jokers wild joker joker joker anna triple but if i'm asking it that was my favorite if if you're asking you know in the abstract the best game show of all time is jeopardy. I mean it's just gone forever. Smart people yeah but it's gone forever and people watch it in yale the answers at the screen. That's the most successful game show ever. Don't you think think yeah my wheel of fortune yeah. We'll fortune. Prices right is a really good coach. I used to love match game with the old match game. I let me see how many people i could name that. Were charles nelson. Reilly s red summer at summer where the two regular is there any other regulars and then they kind of filled building the other spy they were the only two regulars yeah okay little known fact the long skinny microphone that gene rayburn used on match games going to tell the story yeah is in roger lodges house roger lodge who host talk show on the angel station was a huge fan of that show any bought it at a charity is such a great show and gene rayburn looked a lot like my grandfather so i i love that show jay alright degal aunt a aunt and her husky dog murphy yes or out for their usual evening stroll on a logging road just outside of dunkin british columbia in canada when she said she felt like something was watching though then she noticed fifty feet away a mountain lion thinking quickly glenn took her phones music library yup and tried to find something that sounded the most human and most threatening it was then she landed on on the track. Don't tread on me by metallica. That's good. I thought it was the noisiest thing in my phone that would probably scare them and also the message. I wanted to convey bay to the cougar. She said once the song was selected. Gallant turned up full volume on her phone faced it towards the mountain lion and it worked as the first note blared. It ran into the bushes. Are you surprised this worked and what would you do if you came across a mountain lion. Let's see i'm trying to think i'm not surprised at work like i probably would have gone for something like zeppelin zeppelin immigrant song with a but i'm not surprised at work. I'm trying to remember what the mountain line if you're supposed to stay really really still that's what we're supposed to run like hell. I would not run like hell. I would just stay really still and see if he turned. I selecting the song long was brilliant. Yeah now that is really to write off the top of your head yeah and she had her dog with her which you know my dog would bark like crazy the mountain line yeah i think she's tough and she's not you'd but the she she would bark at them out in line just because she's a i'm not sure that she would survive him out. No i think no way that's the wrong play but i don't think i'd get her to shut up. Yeah your little puggle woody. I think she's way tougher than she is. Am outline online. We put reagan on cracker. Yeah this this this woman nets that's quick thinking. I would just stand still yeah. I think staying still is the best play okay so what if i wanted to try and save my dog. I guess let off the leash and maybe she would run. I think he'd run towards the mountain. Yeah she probably will get some on when you pick up the dog and try and grab the snout grab the snout. Yeah maybe according to backpacker and says that you're supposed to run. We know we found evidence that pumas will indeed chase and capture people who run we also found that people who stand still are possibly more endangered in mobility may be interpreted by the mountain lion as a sign that you are vulnerable prey either because you are unaware of its presence or because you're disabled and not capable of escaping so the size say even though oh they predict the amount line we'll chase you unless it's on uneven ground so john's back flat ground run. Your best chance for survival is to run correct. The the odds are in your face according to backpacker so you and i are both dead well. You're scrutiny seven pins and i'm like playing led zeppelin while i get eight. I have the speed of boulder escape sure you do. Yes jerry all right. According to the saluda county sheriff's office incident report obtained by the new york post shea worked a quarterback on the georgia southern university football team was arrested after police pulled him over for speeding as he was being stopped. Police found some white stuff on the hood of his car a dodge charger. The police claimed it was cocaine. Wirtz arts says it was bird poop that he failed to clean off john think about this. Why would cocaine be on the hood of a car and who's in the right is a blow or is it bird bird poop <hes> there's no way it's bird poop. That was ingenious. You're speeding and you've somehow got blow on your car. Will they can do a test. The cops can do a test. They did an can i test and they decided it was blow yeah. I think that this guy had a problem isolated blow on the hood of the car. Even as bird poop believe that shea worked should be a free freeman today well he may. He may be stranger. Things have happened in you know in certain it depends. Where does he play. He is playing in georgia. Just say jerusalem. Yes georgia southern. That's football country. He may walk. They may take the steve mason argument there and let him let him do it. Depends how good you are. I think is the is the answer but you know cops have heard every excuse in the book sure you know so if is morales here one knows the most about but we should maybe how would it still be on the car. Though i mean unless does he just done it. If you figure if you i mean let's think about this out loud. If you drive yup fast and let's say you did a blow in the hood of your car. Yeah wouldn't it would not blow away. That's what i'm saying. That's why i buy the the bird poop argument. It makes more sense to say this bird poop but i know that i know a couple of guys who are cops and they it can do a do. They did an eye test yeah. They test prides i. I'd like to read more about this. I bet you they did a residue test. They rubbed the bird who've been put it on their teeth. I mean yeah. That's a pretty bold move more faster coming for you in two minutes mason and ireland e._s._p._n. L._a. I roll non with fast-track ireland to you all right j. There was a twitter debate going on last week on a very important issue all right it started. It was started by rob perez who wrote this quote toasting bagels. Eagles is a waste of time just microwave them. Jimmy trina from sports illustrated then responded with. I don't say this lightly and i'm not going to exaggerate or use hyperbole. This is by far the all time worst thing thing. I've ever seen on twitter now to me. There is an obvious right side of this makes you first. How do you feel about microwaving kerr waving bagel. You toast your bagels youtube. Not microwave your your bagels. That is to me. It's disgusting. I don't microwave anything at all period so miami. Bagels is just disgusting this. You're both one hundred percent rate this. I don't know who this guy rob perez dissolved but he s often warm and mushy and it does the the reason you toast. A bagel is because you want the crunch brian you want the toast and then you get hit with the butter while it's still hot guttural seep into the bagel. None of those things happen. If you microwave bagel microwaving a bagel is maybe the worst idea i've ever heard. I can't agree with jimmy train of when he says i'm not going to exaggerate use hyperbole that might be twitter is a cesspool s. pool of hate yup. That might be the worst thing ever time choi dream. That was a bad that world that is wild. Whatever whoever has that that it is the worst take ever. I mean and you go ahead and throw in everything all your political athlete. Hey takes whatever you want. The base one-sentence toasting bagels is a waste of time just microwaved them is the worst thing ever to appear on twitter also said how dare you leave me me a voice message and that i i totally agree with. Don't you mean voice messages. Who said i left some voice message worldwide web voice message either. I won't listen to know why. I don't listen to any voice. Mail tells me who you are. When you call right now wait a minute greg i want you to this exact situation came up today. I called you. I called greg and i had two questions on my way way down. Here is like half an hour into my drive right okay i so i asked two questions one. Are we outside as we were outside on monday. I said it's all stopping. Trump gets sunscreen consuming. I both got fried. We then i said to is their food at the house because i not i'll stop and pick some up and you. You answered the phone if you don't answer the phone i'm gonna leave you that message. I'm driving. I don't wanna tech. Just gonna call you back. Don't give you the answer anyway. Don't leave the voicemail message message. He's just gonna but i'm driving. How do i text them while i'm dr you. Don't you just answered the phone. No i'm calling him. I don't answer the phone the phone he see you leave. You know what i have not people back unless they ask me. I even listed. I haven't listened to a voicemail message in forever. No reason to have your name pops up on the screen and then once you went to okay. I see i see my mom call so call her back. I'm not gonna listen. Listen to sodano you. Don't listen to voice unless it's from somebody only policies. I love oh good apology. That's neither one of you idiot solve my problem. I need to get the answers to questions if i leave them on your voicemail and i say hey great things thinks joining it sunscreen do it. You can text them back. You can call me back and do whatever you want but but if i if all you see is john ireland missed call so that means. I have to call back no he. It doesn't mean anything. I didn't ask you to call me but if you're getting ready for the show if he sees that you called him then he's obviously going to call you back. This situation was reversed and you call me and i see greg berkman miscall and then i check my texts and check my email for you if you don't need me no i'm. I'm not leaving messages because i'm expecting you to see my name and call me by wait until being serious yes if i get miscall from somebody but they leave me no message. I'm obligated to call him. You know the person if you know the person yeah like if if lisa calls you and just as lisa you really listened to voicemail messages horse. I've not listened to a message exception of saddam's in a really long time they have. They have a new feature in the new iphone operating right assuming that you guys have all my phone my recent calls are where juan mom mom fraud risk one one rod fritz fraud risk telemarketer telemarketer all right so what you can do on this stuff stuff is you. Can you just click on any of these voicemails like here's one from wyatt who works with us yeah. Hey i have a question for you. Here's my number call me so i didn't even have to listen to it. I just looked at it so the dog so it's then you're reading on while you're driv- advocate easier easier to read than it is today and by the epa carplay so if i hit it's do you want me to play your voicemails. They'll play just in general. Don't call me text me. I don't wanna talk to you on the the phone. I don't care who you are. Don't wanna talk the my mom is the exception my mom. I have to deal with on the phone. I have to deal with unfold feel job. I have to deal with her. I've got a call my mom but other than that don't don't call me every once in a while when you and i wind up having a phone call. We always think it's like some <hes> terrible crisis because we talk so infrequently. Only you and i talk it is. It's like the halmi dight something's wrong. Palming all means terrible. Somewhere is mad at one of us. If we're time what it is exactly what it is and it's rarely we're mad at each other. It's someone in our world is mad at us for something more piss somebody off. You should not one hundred percent. Jank jank are probably one of the most egregious things a person in a relationship can do is go behind their partners back and binge-watch episodes of your favorite t._v. Show after your greed you would only watch it together. This has become such a serious issue that people at net flicks six and south africa have come up with a one percent legally binding way to ensure this doesn't happen. They have a contract. It says the terms and conditions are as applies. I won't fall asleep. I won't get distracted by my phone. I won't continue watching a show without you. I won't talk while the show is on and in the event. I come across the spoiler. I won't share it with the other person so far has been shared one hundred seventy thousand times <hes>. Are you guilty of or have you been a victim him of lisa watching a show binging a show on netflix or any other streaming services okay with this used to be an issue between the two of us but we now are always like i saw at least at this morning for about an hour right. She left to go play tennis or go workout. I left to drive down here i have to do. I'm going to dinner tonight in newport. I won't see her until nine o'clock and we we we finally gave up. We binge watch stuff together because we're never at the house at the same time tomorrow. Night is the exact opposite. I'm getting a crack on to come play golf at black gold once you're in the morning. She is going out to dinner with their friends and she's leaving like five. I won't even be home by five because you and i are black gold so i won't see her until tomorrow night at ten o'clock right so we finally we now. She still gets a little mad at me. I never get mad at her if she watches something without me. I just write it off to we. The busy lives and we're not to do you guys like do you want have shows that you are are committed added to watching together and that's it well. We've got shows that we've promised to watch together that then we haven't watched together and it is always a thing like i can't believe you went ahead and watch that without me. I can't believe you watched the loudest voice when you know i want to see the loudest voice to well. Here's one thing we do if one person feels that way then the other one just has to watch it again right. That's been ruled. One gets control of the t._v. Yeah so like i love the loudest voice lisa could take it. I believe it yeah but i watched that as soon as i can watch it and then if she wants to watch it i'll say yeah watching with you. If you ever make the sacrifice watch where you say i know. I don't really want to watch this but because you wanna watch it. I'll watch it with you last night. What was the show. It was a movie. My my wife loves nancy meyers okay. She just so meantime n._c. Myers movie tell me it's not it's complicated. Well that we watch. I've seen like twenty last night that movie it was a movie off aw the intern with anne hathaway and robert deniro movie and it was coming on the exact same. I was bowling yeah so i didn't see hard knocks and and i got home in time ten o'clock i had to wait for the end of the intern and then she fell asleep and i watched hard knocks so that they'd had but that happens all the time like she's. She's if she's already into something you just ride it out. Yeah why not yeah you know who cares j. all right. We're here in orange county for o._c. Week yes we dr. I have a list of people you guys greg and steve. Tell me are these people from orange county from orange county meaning they they were either born here or lived here for more than a year. Okay yes or no are these people from the o. C. greg egg number one dean martin. I feel like that's like a new york. Thing <hes> but live for a year has to be there born here or lived here for at least a year. I'm at the end of his career. I'll say for you're going yes. I am going to say no. Mason gets that when he's from steubenville ohio yeah <hes> d. martinez and he died in beverly hills but he never made it into the o. c. Okay mace kevin costner kevin costner. Yes you're saying yes greg yeah bug born in lynwood and went to cal state fullerton so big orange county influence greg meryl streep meryl streep is actually from north dakota so no i have no idea you're let me see. I think she's from the east coast. She went to yale drama school. I'm going to say no both right. She's from summit new jersey and he lives in connecticut. Mason your three for three s and this one starts works with you diane keaton diane keaton. She feels like a new yorker. I'm gonna say no greg. We'll say yes greg league ties it up. She went to santa ana high school. Oh wow so. She was here as a ute all right. It's three two three katy. Perry greg the singer katy perry. She thinks she's from california aware and california's the question. I'm gonna say yes. You're going yes mate. I'm also going. Yes both wrong from santa barbara. <hes> and <hes> has a house in l._a. But has never been in orange county. All right girls may steve martin. It's complicated he was in st martin was in that i'm going to say yes also ellie story. You guys are both correct. He actually worked at disneyland. If i remember well i don't know if that's true but he went to santa anna college and cal state long beach before going to u._c._l._a. All right it's four two four <hes> greg gwen stefani gwen stefani singer of no doubt and now on the voice i know she is from southern california. Yes you're going. Yes me. I'm i'm gonna say yes also yeah. She bills herself as an orange county. Girl went born in fullerton grew up here in anaheim all right five to five a. Who went. I set time you may know quincy. You went first. Okay may <hes> comedian. Dane cook dane cook. I'm gonna say yes all right greg. I'm gonna say no. He's got to be east coast. Guy red gets when he's from cambridge near boston. Yeah sixty five but there are two left <hes> greg movie director james cameron and titanic avatar big movie director. I think he is a california guy but <hes> i'm going to say yes all right mace. I'm going to say no <hes> greg again. You went to cal state fullerton but may she'll be happy to know your down seven to five worth two and a half and greg you you have to go first and you gotta get right blow it again. Sean penn shaun hen- did he ever is either rum or did he ever live for more than a year in orange county. I feel like he was from the east coast. Butts lived like in malibu or something. I'm gonna say no. You're go mace. I think it's no but i'll say yes for the winner <hes> you you knew you were be sean. Penn went to is from santa monica. He went to uh-huh high school with <hes> rob lowe and charlie sheen and emilio estevez so he grew up in santa monica but never crossed the iron curtain greg with the a two and a half bonus you finish at nine and a half very very well done all right all right. Hey jay track left it is we're gonna play a game called one and done all these all these issues. All these questions revolve alva around the number one which of these t._v. series and by the way it's possible for both of you to miss it which of these t._v. series only ran. One season is an a. Freaks and geeks be sledgehammer to see the office the u._k. Version greg ugo. I i watched freezing freaks and geeks and had two seasons since what was the second one <hes> sledgehammer office u._k. I don't know what that is but i'm pretty sure it's the office u._k. He's wrong. It's freezing geeks and only lasted one year. I'm a big jet appetite guy. It only lasted one year. That's right. It was only one that's the thing that everybody because it launched a bunches stars jason segel and seth rogan and all this dude who is in the very first episode of the apprentice was a scott hamilton b. andrew dice clay see tom green greg. You're on first this time. When i go i wow who's the first person scott hamilton andrew dice clay tom green. I'll go dice andrew dice clay. I think it is dice. <hes> <hes> you guys are both corrected as andrew dice clay first episode. I guy eliminate. Don't remember him. Having long run in the apprentice and there were green had a nice run which of these was the number one one rated show of the twenty eighteen twenty nine thousand nine television season. Was it a sunday night. Football game of thrones or see big bang theory greg greg. We start with you this time. I'm going to say sunday night football sunday night it is not it is game of thrones with a twenty-five share last last sunday night football a twenty-four share big bang theory is seventeen share number four which musician was a one hit wonder only had one top twenty song song was that a tone lok be vanilla ice or see marky mark and the funky bunch john tone locate. A couple had a couple. I'm going to go marky mark and the funky bunch name another song from vanilla ice besides ice ice baby govinda lights. I sound vanilla. Vanilla is correct marky. Mark and the funky bunch had to tone located to number five which golfer john may have been here it is to to oh okay which golfer has only one major championship is in a paul azinger. Be lea jansen see fuzzy taylor hazing janssen zeller. You're gonna know this one. I think i know but i'm not positive as inkers zeller and jansen jansen and i know as inger has when i don't zillur have one. I'm gonna say zeller zeller john. It's either zeller zeller raising our i know janson has to. I'm going to go using her as the correct answer. He won the ninety-three p._g._a. But that was at one yeah well you knew fuzzy. You said i don't know if you have to remember. Fuzzy won the masters because he made that crack about tiger. Jack wants to number six. Who has the number one rated late night. Talk show right now is that as stephen colbert be jimmy kimmel or seed jimmy fallon. We start with john. It's it either kimmel or co bear. I'm going to say colbert colbert greg. I don't think it's colbert. Kimmel greg not the correct answer. It was stephen colbert number. One fallon is number. Two and jimmy kimmel was number three and the last one and greg. You'll be happy to know that you are within two and a half the scores yours for the two so john will have to go. I which is the number one again. John may have an advantage. This is his thing which is the number one all time longest running broadway show. I'm not going to get a cat's be phantom of the opera. See the lion king john ugo i i. I don't know this man. It's either fan or the the apple cats. All go cats catch. Greg cats is no longer on broadway. I'm going to say i thought it was lion king but you're saying it's the other way could be. I don't know i mean fans around a long time or lion king. I'm gonna go with lion king greg. It was right there for a <music> lion king. A second and cats is third. Yeah cats cats. I think ended. I don't know if the movie's coming up i thirty avid serves your fast track for today. People will see it. Singing singing dancing cats yeah new doesn't wanna see that where they look for paul newman walked into letterman and he was just sitting in the audience and letterman goes wait a second set paul newman and new looks up and goes where the hell are the dancing katz. They walked out so ridiculous and it will be a ridiculous movie all right more mason ireland coming up next. We're live from from orange county. It is oh see week where at our house today then tomorrow at black gold golf club in yorba linda mason and ireland e._s._p._n. L._a. s._p._n. L._a. mason in ireland it is day three abo- see week and we'll round up the entire week for a tonight me and key at medieval times along with the whole morning show. That's at five o'clock tonight. I think that when you have to have had tickets beforehand to get in and hang with us there tomorrow we are live from black gold golf club and yorba linda. It is early golf day for ireland greg me not so early but i'm gonna play the last three holes seventeen eighteen and nineteen right john yeah and you're predicting you will score twenty-five under twenty one hundred twenty five underway. You hit twenty five. Will you give me credit if i hit twenty. Why not it'll be a small small mary. We're counting all stroke shift a putt out. You have to put the ball in the hole. Yes and you can call black gold golf club for special e._s._p._n. L._a. golf rate and then on tomorrow is golf day and then friday we all day long or at rock and brews in buena the park. That'll be the grand finale of o._c. Week which has been a huge success john you've ever been to iraq and bruce yeah. We did a show from iraq. Oh that's right. I wasn't doing matt lakers at a rock and russa redondo beach in in that one before that was our big free agency show. That's great spot. You are on your sabbatical. Yes my can't say the words anthony davis three week hiatus or kawhi. Leonard couldn't say either yeah but we'll see it. I love rock and and really fun and and then the other thing is is tomorrow you can come. Join us at black gold at the a golf course yep but you gotta have t- tend to play but if you just wanna come watch us do the show will be hanging out near the eighteenth or you can come do that. Yes all right so coming up for you is purgatory. We should circle back around to the rich. Paul rule that <hes> has been instituted by the n._c. Double a. john well in in in my opinion. It is a it's a ridiculous rule it snooty. It's elitist. It's classiest. It's it's got all this this. Here's what they decided to do. They decided to make the e._s._p._n. Got a hold of a memo and they decided to make a rule that any potential future agents and i've heard some people defending this today i want somebody responsible has to go to you mean appleton pass a test has to be an n. B. certified agent for three years and here's the one i really didn't like has to have a bachelor's degree. Yes and basically lebron tweeted. It's the rich paul rule and in a way hey it kind of is i mean rich. Paul didn't have a bachelor's degree he started from the ground up and now he represents draymond green and lebron and and anthony davis you can make the argument. It's the most successful agent in the league and for my money i think the n._c._a._a. Is is is getting involved in something that it's completely unnecessary and i wonder what was the cause of it. If it wasn't rich paul it had to be rich. Paul mean rich. Paul is obviously the targeted this rule and by the way look you know. I was lucky enough to go to college. When you were lucky enough to go to college greg. You're briefly college tree briefly the right wing but like you don't have a college degree. What if you can't work here unless you have a college degree. I would not have this job but i mean i have an a._a. So i have a degree but not a bachelor's degree associate's degree and i when i got this job on the application it said some college needed not bachelor's degree needed nothing just said some college and there are jobs and furnace their jobs in the world that require a college edged agree. This shouldn't be one of this. This shouldn't be one of them and there's a lot of bitterness about why rich paul has become successful and obviously obviously lebron. James was a huge part of that. Guess what knowing somebody is the way. Some of the most successful careers have been launched. You knew somebody your your family or you knew somebody is is one of the ways people break into this business break into the entertainment business break into the sports business. It happens all the time <hes> but to say and i'm not saying because i get some negative tweets earlier today. There are a lot of their lot of successful people that don't have a college degree ted turner larry ellison who founded oracle steve jobs. I mean down down the line. Michael dell founded dell computer david geffen entertainment payment mogul lots of people have been successful without college degrees and they just happened to be really smart and really great entrepreneurs and you don't need a college degree to be successful in life. Obviously it's great if you have one. If that's exactly what you want in your life you should definitely pursue it. <hes> there are a lot of people who come out of college with a lot of college debt and that can be a real downside of going through and getting a degree and at the same time there are jobs that require you due to have a college degree. This should not be one of them and it's hard to make a case that this didn't have to do with rich paul and his success as being n._h._l. Here's a couple of examples that hit closer to home casey close who's clayton kershaw is agent and who is in his career negotiated added more than seven hundred million dollars worth of baseball contracts got his start because he was college roommates at michigan with berry larkin represented ended larkin and then he was off and running. That's almost identical situation to lebron rich ball. Yep <hes> lee steinberg who i know a little bit. Lee's first client was steve caskey the quarterback who was the number one pick in the draft because they went to cal together. They were in school in berkeley together. So you know this this this idea that somehow rich paul was elevated specifically because he was friends with the bride. Lebron helped him get started but there's no way draymond draymond green and anthony davis and all these other going with them unless he had become really good at it which he has so. I hate this rule. I think it's really stupid yep. <hes> all right more faster astra more fasttrack more mason in ireland is coming up next. I update dodgers still trailing one nothing to the cardinals a dodger stadium liam and greg how far are going into the ninth. Justin turner just popped out with one on okay. Bellinger is going to be leading off. Joe kelley by the way struck doc out the side. We were looking at this game on youtube youtube. Joe kelley has been a really different guy since about june the first he is he looks great now in his rounding into form in time for the playoffs twelve years ago today barry bonds set the all time home run record. Did he really yeah twelve years ago today today. So that might be the most illegitimate record y in the most the most unrecognized record of all time ah yes most people still look at hank. Aaron is the home run. King and bonds obviously is not in the hall of fame but he really has disappeared appeared into the ether wind. The last time we saw barry bonds publicly isn't working as a batting coach. I don't think so i think he may have come into spring training but he's not in the dugout every night. You know he's not working for team. Mark maguire did for a long time. I don't know if he's just at spring training. He's been a chance but yeah no. He really has a disappeared. You're absolutely right and he's. I did have one year as the marlins hitting coach. It had a dead end. Did he walk away or do you get fired. He walked away and became a part time batting coach <hes> for the giants but i think that's mostly a spring training kind of thing yeah. The only record i will i will really recognized for <hes> home. Runs is hank aaron. Seven fifty five and the usual is that other than ajay who is ostracized for obvious reasons. I don't know if there's ever been anybody who was that successful on the field who has been treated this way off of the field. Can you like very there was a period of time where berry muscle pete rose is still got a job at fox. I know for a little bit. He's gone. You know right but i mean pete rose. People still cover pete rose. People still interview pete rose. Nobody nobody even interviews. Barry bonds like. I don't even barry bonds lives he. I think he lives in southern california. I think he does it's like he he just pete rose didn't disappear he's controversial but it is unpopular and every town except san francisco. Maybe a little bit in san francisco to yeah. No i think i think he brought. I think they were thrilled with what he was able to do. For these cisco you get surprised joe panic just got released yesterday at a major part of their last world series and not at all that group has gotten really old really fast brandon bell and he he's been held is joe panic greg. Look that up. I mean he's in his twenties. In crawford isn't the guy that he's been twenty eight and at some point you just they need to turn the page. That is the one of the worst teams in baseball. It's down to just a few one of the worst teams in baseball buster. Posey's not buster posey any blah though he's been a little better lately the and they're still i think only they're less than five games out of a wildcard spot. They're not the marlins now. They're not the marlins but the difference is the marlins have the best or the <hes> fourth-best farm system in baseball and the giants do not the giants which is why they hired foreign side yeah the giants. Just let everybody get old angina jonah three and a half back. Nobody three pack mason your. They're not as bad as you're making him out to know. What i'm talking about is the direction of the franchise. The direction of the franchise is going in the wrong. It's it's it's wrong right now because they're not young. They're aging throat and these players aren't who they have been in the past and i understand joe. Panic was actually awful this year yeah the bad year going against them to <hes> but a lot of those guys praying belts not the guy brandon crawford's not the guy even buster posey's tailed off <hes> they've gotta gotta find a way to reload and get younger in a hurry. I wanted to mention this before we get to purgatory that you know there's a lot of talk about what the dodgers didn't didn't do it. The trade deadline and the team that won the trade deadline was the astros yes. That cranky pitched his first game with houston last night. He got a little bit lit up but they won yep <hes> sometimes it's not the players who trade for you're but it's the message it sends to the rest of the locker room that you're going for it. Remember the trade deadline was on july thirty first the astros in august aw are now six and they're averaging nine runs per game and they're giving up two point two so so the trade for grinky may have like basically jump started them into thinking oh gosh now we're going to win the whole thing and they've played like so far in august and by the way the mets who acquired marcus stroman just before the deadline i've been not esteem in the league been the hottest team in the league so they went out and have gotten themselves into into contention for a wildcard spot so even when people thought they should be a seller. They decided to go the other way and it looks like it is paying off for for them. All right coming up next for is purgatory. George sodano was here. We're live from oh from the o._c. Where at our house in orange county in anaheim california l. -fornia mason and ireland e._s._p._n. L._a. I we are live from our house in orange county where anaheim coming up for you next as the sodano show. We're in purgatory now. Medieval times dinner with me and kiwi will be jousting <hes> tonight at five o'clock at the medieval times will not end wine park. George will not end well. I've already got a thousand dollars in mythical money. Bet all sean. I mean that's nothing you should have gone way. Bigger we know so if what the justice will entail putting bergman on the honor system he says that if an actual competition in sues the he'd been on mason so if an the actual competition ensues than than i wanna be worse yeah with way armed houses yeah i actually. I worry that this will be the one athletic thing. Steve turns out to be really good at totally sad because it's useless. There's no-one context which jousting working medieval times arms all across. I'll go on a tour of medieval times renaissance fair. Yeah that's right yeah. I can go to a game of thrones. Reenact nations is a professional professional like ren. Faire kind of guy beat him at anything remotely athletic yeah. He's going to not be happy about all right. He's a super competitive guy that got to the top of the propel though he he drink three margaritas before the marquee race running race marceau's and then in my opinion he won. He won <hes> opinion. You want also but he's that confident yeah. That's the whole point yeah so yeah but if you are able to marcellus would have been named the winner. I think he would have been who was actually named the winner. It was ki- yaounde's there yeah. There's a dispute they're arguing over like key clearly hit that he got his line across his crossed the line first but marcellus marchesi i mean there was some marcellus leftists and went to fox folks. We're all day. He ran all the way to the official. Winner is key yeah george a lot of money with them. Now you wanted to weigh in on. I was astounded by the fact that if someone leaves greg or steve a voicemail on their cell phone that they will not listen to it well that to me. That's nobody really leaves voice meals anymore but when they do i feel like it's important like that joe. It's no no it's not i mean. Let's be honest. It depends who it is. It's like my mom leaving. A message says i really liked your what if your agent left your voicemail my agent yeah i would see the name right and i just calm age wouldn't listen awesome. You know what he was calling. I wanna know what i would call them right. If you wanna know he probably left it on the voice meal yes he. I don't listen to any voice the only voicemail messages passages. It's actually makes me feel a little better about something. There's been two or three voicemails. I've left people over the last few months where i've received no response at all. I can just write it off that instead head of ignoring me that they just never listened to. I go further. Don't call me yes seriously. I don't do not call me at just send me attacks. I don't wanna talk to people on the phone. It's a long tax though like that. There's some there's a point like a line of demarcation where it becomes more efficient. I just have a phone conversation. Semi ema semi attacks in email form. I will be fine. I really don't want to do you actually talk to on the phone. My mom my mom my sister phones for moms yeah yeah my sister occasionally my wife if i need something like or she needs to talk to people on the phone all all the time. Who are you talking in the car. I do a lot of me too yeah in the car. That's where i do most of my i gotta remember to john john old white people everyone run to old white people like i'm doing information gathering on stuff. I'll well. You've got sources and all that kind of stuff. I suppose you've got to elect ramona's always know she's got permanently more year yeah but i mean yeah so the phone house because you don't want a paper trail yeah just if you're listening and you know me or your friend friend of mine do not call me. Don't call me back. I've spoken to you on the phone once but you asked me to call you. Is that right. Yes text you said hey can you call and you call me yeah. That's it was mad at the other one wasn't it wasn't no it wasn't that was when the alliance was born it was he was born on that call the george. Did you improve your of all bowling last night. I lost twice to greg but george had the staff low score. I seventy seven. Did you improve on that edna games after played only one more. I got one hundred on the got a seventy seven. I haven't bowled in ten years. He i say with that still sad. I once dated a girl. Let me ask you this. How many latinos do you see in the p. That's an excellent point. You're a grownup should be able to get growing up. I once went on a date eight in high school in the girl bolt thirty one but if you just walk to the line two hands this great bowler. I know there's no question. I pointed out last night if anybody had to pick which person you know from the e._s._p._n. L._a. trudell group would be the best athletes the person you pick travis. Travis looks like the bowl was look ono any lived in minnesota which means you couldn't do anything. Outdoors adores you had to grind travis looks like no drought crushed us. A trudeau judo's good. He's a good athlete. He's pretty good good white people. You can own bowling like that's okay. Listen caspian listening and what was the other thing that you want to things for mom. There was the binging thing so it's funny my wife. I don't care if my wife watches some mind. You're the same as me but she gets mad at us. Show it happened during game of thrones last season yeah world. It's a big if you watch game of thrones without her. That's a big thing wrong with you. I would watch what you stop. I would watch the live feed. He's co six o'clock yeah yeah yeah and she was like dealing with the kids and whatever and she'd get out of shape and i'm like i watch. I'll watch it again. There's probably stuff. I'm gonna miss and she did. She got bent out of shape about that. See we do that. We'll will agree to watch certain shows together and sometimes like especially on a plane. I'll get on a roll and start why show continuous light and and then we'll just say well screw that it's already passed travel. Watch that we're living a go. I do twenty games a year. There's there's no way i'm home in a plus. I do a radio show seven o'clock bowl for a living you know no one wants to bowl for a living like seriously i learned that my wife and i would be in the same room together long enough like without children or work or sleep becoming somebody like it just that's. We don't have that lifestyle right now to be able to binge. Watch your kid show nine seven and nine months. It's nine seven and nine nine months one chain a bit of a cautionary thinking about some of the bowling wouldn't shouldn't like professional bowlers bowl three hundred a lot more than they do the the lines. The lions has yet every three pointer. It's the it's not like a golf. Twirl courses are different. It's not like baseball where the pitches are different. You're pulling the same ball down in identical lane where the pincers set up in the identical place but aren't some lanes because clearly i don't care trudell and point out that not every lane is oil. I was gonna say. Are you being serious about both of those things because mike is the type of person who would point that i was that was where i was going to go immediately. I'm sure they're not the same way like i don't know. Is there still a professional bowlers. Tour de it kind of they've gone kind of. They're doing crazy. Things like playing loud rock music differently between guys going to the i think they have the deal with faulk drop them and now they went to fox yeah when i was a little kid that was a big deal was on a._b._c. Every saturday who is who is in their loved watching the bowling avid vollers. This will surprise you chris paul. Oh yes really good bowler. Yeah who else is going to interbike. Him was a good that surprises me. I'm brian and i did a cool thing. Yesterday i think <hes> we were all so this is very summary. <hes> we did a list of the pros twenty five or younger anger on all the l._a. Teams and we did a draft pros twenty five or younger right. Who do you think went one aaron. Donald is he under twenty. Five is twenty eight cody. Bellinger cody bellinger was yeah. Cody bellinger's a great pick. Yeah i went to the second pick i went with. I think i took joey bosa joey bosa. That's a good pick to to thank you coups depict kuzma's in there. That's a good question. Jared goff jared goff jared goff yeah bill from the dodgers. There's also curly early twenty-five but he's hurt. That's the things like what do you do with brian. Todd gurley peaked already yes he he take he participated fully in practice. Today with the raiders out still got something left yep. He's got something saving saving walker bueller yeah. That's a good yeah cory seager yep shohei ohtani shona sure twenty-five core secrets been a little bit disappointing this year. He's he's been injured a lot. Though he's been injured last year he also just does he have seen guy that we saw before the injury he started off poorly and then he started really heating up and got injured and and came back and so it took a little bit and then he started heating up again and got injured and now he's back and he's just starting to heat up. Brian also durin james and mike williams of the chargers blow blow yeah pro bowl caliber players follow the chargers i mean they do. They are professional football team. They are part of the ram the san diego chargers right. I still call. I mean soccer stadium. They are professional football team so yeah. It just feels like they did a cool draft though again somewhere like some did radio segments of lists yeah good no yeah the all decade team this a good week to release your list chewed on <hes> sprang n._b._a. Dot com that's going. I know right <hes> next week by the way george today's your getaway day isn't it it. It is georgia's you're gone after today. I'm really gone already ireland. You're gonna next week. I leave saturday morning early greg. You're gone next week yet by lee friday that means <hes> the mason and ireland show is just me. It's perfect. Here's jay it's. It's all also calls all week yet. It's always calls yes. That feels very summer doesn't take loss exactly bryner. Are you filming on wednesday and thursday. Yeah i think we got some <hes> some momo fillon and we got some brian felon and then i'm gone after that august. August guest is going to be v. It's going to be e._s._p._n. Cam yeah yeah you can't august is when andy and i drag sodano ratings into the into now. That's not true. We're gonna take three to seven and skyro- so if you guys saw what e._s._p._n.'s doing today with the e._s._p._n. Radio guys playing ping pong with their heavy tomorrow headley eddie you play soccer pong table playing with their heads he mazing tomorrow. I think they've normally done on eight eight. The problem is i think there's the little league world series and all these things committed to already okay but they were the they were actually playing ping pong with their heads and you can jump on the table. The rules are a uh-huh nonexistent. Apparently all you have to hit the ball with their heads in the fact that you could find like five guys who do this. That's my game by the way that is my game jousting. They actually had painting your head ping pong ping pong had and jousting those are my two games camps lettered in both the chose pretty fun. I was watching two guys played tetris a little while ago. Yeah nice. I'm in by the way is that feels very very soon kit. We had this unfestive a week ago. That won three million dollars for winning a fortnight ninja all right. Is that kid an athlete. Is that a sport sport. It's a skill it's on there. It's not a sport. It's a competition yet. Synthetic headed auto racing a sport. Yes today nice. What's the difference is it is. Those guys was like twenty pounds in those races but apparently if you're really good video games apparently your concentration in your focus. Are your concentration your hand eye coordination when people always freak out when you have this. Is it a sport or is it doesn't mean it's not hard. It doesn't mean it's not you know. It's something that anybody anybody could do. It's not but but that doesn't necessarily mean it's a sport but gaming is going to be an olympic sport. Look at this cool dodgeball thing. They're doing on trampolines. That's pretty oh oh that's i've actually done that before. Yeah that's on that. I've done that before. Is that a single listening you know they have the everywhere has got them. Those gigantic doc trampoline plea birthday parties have birthday parties and stuff adam. It's just a floor full trampolines and they'll throw the balls out and you just play on sabor battles if you like lifesavers lifesavers yeah. It's a lot like jousting mace this could be. You should practice johnston yeah. Oh that's exactly what it is so ridiculous. Steve do me a favor favor yeah. Have you read the nicholas cage interview with the new york times no until fast-track next week really yes okay so you're you're not allowed to reveal the highlights of it well way we could be on the internet. He's a little he's a little dinosaur. Skull cobras the whole thing is he does own a dinosaur scholars. The more i think so juggling dodgeball you have to juggle hatch kidding. Yeah that's real. That's that's an excellent sport. Yeah that is really hard. The what i love about these two it really gets to how arbitrary sports are like what like how baseball became baseball rules in tennessee i. We don't look over there. Yeah there was a woman with tremendous upper bodies yeah and that was on camera and you go juggling dodgeball. I was real. The victim all set each other dodger game over yet. No it's second and third to one count on russell martin with two out. Oh wow assaults on nothing cardinal charley steiner do games. Is it just home game. You don't need to hear them. <hes> over the game last night legendary charlie early start. He's not doing as many games as it used to be by the way they love him. The dodgers love. He's one of the greatest ever hear a friend. A friend of mine has works over. There and says is a deeper all the right field kat. I have against charlie what's idea doesn't know how to call the game and eh that man is legend. I watch in malaysia and from e._s._p._n. Your he was on he was original. I watch the story on real sports this week about john sterling sterling yeah and he something years old yeah and what and he gets calls wrong sometimes yeah he's he thinks it's going to be a home run and it's not or or calls one a home run run and turns out. I mean you know what he's been doing it for his mr game like forty years he's talking about. He just would john sterling sterling john sterling yeah yeah. He just missed his first all right. Tampa bay series a couple of weeks ago yeah yeah but i mean this run. You've paid no attention yeah. He thought it was no big deal right. He claims he didn't even notice <hes> that he had never missed a game. I don't know him like that but i mean he probably. I mean whatever i don't know new york's totally different anyway. Who's the guy who falls asleep and mad not mad dog of mike franks says the care and he gets it. He gets great wants to show falls asleep once a show. This is my friend cecil nods off every that's excessive thing all the time. He's awake more closely. I don't know if that's true you a cup of coffee all right. That's the end of purgatory chapter. One purgatory chapter two is coming up next for you. It is oh see week. <hes> and we are live from our house in anaheim e._s._p._n. Hey the dodgers pulling out. It is their tenth walk off win of the year russell martin with the seeing i single up the middle and the dodgers want them car s. three no two one two two one new run single a two outs and two strikes in the ninth inning really is looking like it's their year but meanwhile the <hes> the angels have lost six thousand nine threw out the first pitch. Is that right yes so we were talking about that earlier. How long is reasonable to give billy upward. This'll be the end of his fourth year in october. He's had mike trout for. Four years has not made a playoff game. Yes well. I didn't he when he took that team over though didn't like the right way matter of fact we may send and i both think that considering considering the tragedy this year they lost eight and heart yeah well that was ten years ago still but with skaggs this year you you don't make any changes ages isn't it spread auspices first season but what is reasonable brian reasonable amount of time to give a g._m. This'll be the end of his fourth year. He has the best player in baseball ball so the idea is to build the team around him is five years enough six years enough to give eight years. What do you do i. I'd be lying if i said i've been following the angels closely mostly enough to know if he's made a lot of mistakes but it means. He's making his dishes job to the following. It's one hundred percent not my job angels. Is you know i think the problem with the angels is. I don't think they have a very good owner. You know that to me is the bigger issue you but i mean i give them another. What do you what do you make of that like. What why. How do you determine that like data suspended. If money like i feel like he spends money. That's all you should really right. Eighty sorta does sorta. Doesn't i mean i already made a got a lot of mileage early out of the lowering beer prices road that for a decade or so i mean obviously they extended trout which is sort of have to shift forever so you gotta give us time but i'm just curious episodes in charge of everything thing. You know he's the g._m. What's a reasonable amount of time to give a guy and you're i think another three or four years if you're not getting your may eight years with trout and if he never makes the playoff game after i mean are they making bad trade so they might question is what's a reasonable amount of time to whatever the problem is fixed i to me. It's always the the the the the question you ask is the one that you always asked john. If you fire the guy who can get better who's out that it's a lot of young firing general managers in baseball baseball right now so and that's that's what billy upper was one of those guys <hes> well he's in but until you fire jeff fisher in bring in sean mcvay if mcveigh's gonna work right but you do know that the answer to who you're going to get better than jeff fisher is anyone the like that's easy hadn't won hadn't had a winning slight stylized football six or seven years style football was had one i. I don't know if they've had a winning right but i'm staying with fisher. The point was yen had one in like you know well. You could tell he was what he was doing. Just didn't work and it wasn't gonna whereas like you know the the questions dodgers. There's lose the world series. Should they fire dave roberts stupid but like who you're gonna get better you fire luke walton who you're going to get better and so all of those things it's like. I don't i green is billy upper the problem with the angels then you're the only person in the room seem yeah. Ban is a big game. It's too early to say he's the biggest property angels angels but wait a minute. No it is his problem. What am i agree. I really vice-president him solve and it's not being just fired art socia- yeah this is the first year without socia- they had the tragedy with skaggs. I think that otani blew out his arm so he can't pitch which i think you have to give them next year but my question is if they miss again next year with trout assuming otani pitches and hits. That'll be five five full years under a player. What do you do then. I can't wait a minute. There's a compelling argument the john ben conroy today as a legitimate angels fan ben. I think the main issue is he had pitching in the years that they've been struggling concluding this year starting pitching and if they're not going to be willing to go out there to trade deadline and spend the money to get somebody in there then they're never going to really go anywhere. They already doesn't it well well. He spent money when you need when he spent money like two hundred fifty million on pools spent money on josh hamilton so he spends money he spends in the rice-laden angel ninth biggest payroll and major league basement is that but that doesn't mean he's spending money wisely just means. He wants to spend money wise n._e._t. If he wants stuff to put people so you can follow the angels. I i don't think there are a lot of gm's were itching to give album pools contract. No i've already play right and that way who was the guy before editor was sarah dipoto essentially said as much like yeah. I didn't wanna do that right and so but that's where all your payroll goes to a guy. Who's you know he's. I believe still has thirteen years left on that contract at ninety seven million dollars a year well in baseball. You know these are long plays. I mean you know no unfortunately for the angels they only have the i think we looked up today the seventeenth biggest or best farm system right now so if his job was to restock the stock the farm system they were dead last takes. It takes a lot better. It does take years to do that yeah <hes> and so you have a longer time horizon. It's unless you're just gonna the do a fire sale and then all of a sudden you can restock quicker than that. It's still even then takes a couple of years but right. If you're not trading off mike trout then you're not getting back in two. You don't have a good farm. You're not bringing up players who reach free agency at a part where you're not good so you can trade them for prospects right your guys don't have value value because your farm system and maybe one of the mistakes angels made is that they never got really really bad. The astros did the way the cubs did. They never got really really bad kind of have to make a choice. You either have to get really bad and stock up on stock your farm system or you've got to spend big <hes> and project wolverine project wolverine. You know what i have to say this. <hes> we're looked up today. The <hes> the marlins best farm system in baseball right now yeah you'd by keith law. We'll see we'll see you've heard that before. I mean if that works the best farm system in baseball before then. They've traded them all right. That's the thing it's like. The best system is great when you do what the dodgers do. Which is you develop guys and then you pay them eventually. Keep them in. Yes use them wisely and all that kind of stop the marlins. I just don't think they're going to be if they're going to be the try to be the oakland a.'s of the national league then good luck. You know yes angels yeah hot. Angels that was wild. Angels takes no this is. Is this a summer topic. That's tough retiree silence. The raiders have admitted did that. Antonio brown has extreme frostbite cryotherapy et following this incident and there is no timetable on his return john on now hygienic kreil all the time the fact that somebody would get frostbite from doing kreil is beyond so that's what i was gonna ask you. You've done it in a lot yeah so they said he didn't have the proper foot. Wear like how does that so when i go in i go into a chamber. I think he went into a son which means his head was out the top he was standing and so but if you any part that's exposed of your body i go in. I have a surgical masks. I've earmuffs gloves really thick gloves on and then i have thick socks and like rubber crocs on okay that ireland is not an instagram. I would like to get that picture just google. If you just google anybody doing cry. You'll see some really you'd point four. That's actually what john's wearing now but the fact that anybody would walk into a cry of therapy repeat chamber with nothing on their feet is is the strangest thing i've ever heard i mean i just i don't know anybody who would even attempt. That seems ridiculous. When you think about it yeah. Hey coming on the show. I don't know what's coming up on the big. Show my other plan today. Who jason terry ice yeah the jet. How albert of sports illustrated do you have a plan today. George not really not really it's. It's summer getaway day. George doesn't care if he drops this. When nine china nothing good <hes> wins six of ten and doesn't matter jousting yeah. We'll see some of you guys that medieval evil times and buena park tonight and then tomorrow morning is golf at black coal black gold golf club and are in the next two days right yeah trudell before we turn to e._s._p._n. Cam it's thomson trudell exactly yeah all right. See you guys tonight. They sodano show is coming up next on e._s._p._n. L._a.

ireland greg greg greg orange county john john chris paul l._a california baseball football golf dodgers George sodano twitter jay track jimmy kimmel pete rose barry bonds Joe kelley
The Third Corey - 183

The How-To Heretic

1:37:39 hr | 4 months ago

The Third Corey - 183

"Fred stood out you heretic. I'm dan i'm doug and this is your users guide to life on the outside yes sir. Leaving religion is the first step into a larger better world of abuts. it can also be a scary world things differently. Now never fear. That's why we're here. We're your audio and with help from good friends and experts all sorts of fields. We're gonna share the stories and seek the knowledge to build a great life after all. You only get the one that we know so you better making gentlemen. Hello hello hello. How are you hope. I'll just just so so good. Good i i am reaching out to you from my 'isolation my solitary in tower in toronto in it's wonderful by that's right i look at this. I can actually leave the room that i'm in. I unlike you cannot under under federal mandates soon enough soon enough anyway. What a show despite us being a divided by border we are not divided by anything else. I don't know what that means. But today i am going to talk about some very scary geometry. I however am going to talk about a cool guy in a really really stupid book. The accidental hero of a book. Right exactly yeah. And then i am going to take on the anti vaccine movement a they exist so quick note. We realized that we all had so much great information this week. We're running really long so to any patrons who jumped in this past week and i know we have. We haven't i know we have to. We want to beg your indulgence to push that off till next week and we will give you all the love then but we just wanna keep the show under twelve hours today. So yeah if everybody's cool with that. Let's do it uncle dan. Well hello You know when. I when i was younger and i was in elementary school. Think maybe junior high school. I read the quote by lincoln about better angles of our of our character and i never heard it spoken out loud so for several years i was left trying to figure out what exactly that meant. You got the wind. You got the one under your arm and then the elbow one just assume that whatever angle you have you wanna make sure it's a right one. Yeah he was very into ninety degrees. But i think oncle marquez. Some something to talk about the not so great angles. He's are not the great angles. These are not the better angels of our nature. Let me tell you so you know we try to have some fun on this. Show guys we. We try to laugh at the absurd and silly every chance we get. That's great but sometimes when you sit out to make a podcast about the comedic side of cults and craziness the colts and craziness outweighs the comedy just a little bit and while there is some funny stuff about today's very peculiar subject. There is some very very not funny stuff about it as well. So let's laugh and then let's talk for a while Content warning there are references to sexual violence and sexual violence against children in this segment. Help me if this is another anthill thing. I am leaving the podcast. It feels like it's gonna go that way but it doesn't go all the way there. So hey yeah so. It's not graphic descriptions like it was with the hill kids just a mention of it so but it's kind of impossible to tell the story without it so be warned so we've talked before on the show about the satanic panic that not really over nationwide hysteria of the nineteen eighties and nineties. That drove this city at country. Well that one. I'm not there at the moment. I'm in canada. Out of its uptight. Mind and saw masses of false accusations arrests imprisonments and other assorted bullshit for a primer on. Please refer back to episode twenty three well sort of satanists that actually rape kidnap and murder people at random that were the shadowy villains for this decades long long. Cultural nightmare didn't really exist but a pin that for just a minute. The sweetness that were around were mostly adherence and imitators of the church of satan. The brainchild of the hard to take seriously anton levay the church of saint was really instill as just another expression of sixties counterculture and Rejection of the stuffy conservative stifling american culture that preceded it The church of satan is mostly a hedonistic movement of pure individuality inspired by among others. The works of ayn rand you can listen to doug segment on her. What a wonderful person. She wasn't episode ninety and while many accused them of being kind sexist and pricks online. They aren't kidnapping anyone's babies for human sacrifices in the forest. That's not who they are right and more recently. Of course most people will be familiar with the satanic temple featured in last year's wonderful documentary hail satan and co founded by lucian greaves whom we spoke to an episode sixteen loosen in the satanic temple are the farthest thing from the murderous cannibals haunting the long dark american night of the nineteen eighty s. They are in fact. Merry pranksters and first amendment heroes haunting southern and square state legislatures with their truck mounted bathroom at statue trying to fend off the worst accesses of creeping christian nationalism child-murdering bad guys. They are certainly not that we know about that. We lucian. you've been served your on blast. Keep it tight lucien. they They they've used our -rageous religion prison religious presumptions in this country as an act of judo. Against those who ceaselessly abuse it so well played the satanic temple. Well remember when. I said those be movies satanic warlocks who kill and rape at random didn't exist. Well it turns out they kind of do and just to give the devils lily. Aren't madly violent. Nazis isn't that fun guys get. You had me at ardent madly violent nazi. So today we pay a visit to the satanic that could cause that should cause some panics. The order of nine angles or the oh nine a. If you're nasty. The order of nine angles is a pretty weird little outfit for a variety of reasons. The semi mysterious people that have authored. It's literatures literature and occasionally spoken for it have purposely surrounded it in loads of mystery and autobiographical legend alleged to have been founded in the late sixties by an unnamed woman in the west of england when she brought together three separate satanic temples and covens in the early seventies. a man who called himself anton long joined and in short order had risen through. Its ranks. those being neophyte initiate external adapt internal adept master grandmaster and immortal to become its master longhand wrote thousands of pages laying out the philosophy and magical with a k. practices defining the order as a highly secretive left hand path practice to reach the gods of the a causal room. It's a morpheus anarchistic and totally decentralized they follow what's called the path matthaus the path of suffering to come to know themselves to become masters of the causal realm and eventually masters of the aac causal realm as. Well i shall explain below. It wasn't really until the nineteen eighties. The oh nine. A really even made itself known by publishing articles in already existing occultist. And far right nationalist magazines it also began distributing its founding scriptures most notably the black book of satan and its own magazine ferrier named for the fierce wolf of norse mythology much of the literature was written by anton long and an artist and musician who went by christos beast but has been identified as richard moult. I should also also note that. Most scholars and journalists who studied nine a far more than i have identify anton long as very fascinating and peculiar man whose real name is david miot some disagree including my it himself who vehemently denies any association with the oh nine a going so far as to challenge journalist who said he was to a duel with the nazi dagger. Sound like something someone from the. Oh nine eight i mean. That's just he protested to little but the preponderance of evidence seems to support. It is in fact my it. But we'll call him anton long for for the most part in here Unlike the church of satan or the satanic temple the order of nine angles very much believe in the theistic evil satan and with him pantheon of so-called dark dodds including a sinisterly female version of baffled. Matt who in their version looks very much like the hindu god of destruction kali Who will bring about a violent revolution that allows for a new system of racially superior tribal warlord governments called the imperium and that golden age of hellish violence and total destruction of the former magin nazarene as they call it basically their term for judeo-christian of the magic nazarene order that has enfeebled and poisoned the natural violence of the human spirit preventing ascendancy to uber manche. And then in this mad max. Version of the future will set out to conquer and colonize. The galaxy led by the dark lord. The dark. god vindicates into a neo-pagan hitlerian interstellar satanic eternity. You had vendex. Where do i sign. That was a that was quite a sentence. A lot Yeah i was trying to distill it down to the the essence. And i think i got there so i think so. I didn't understand any of what you said. But i think you nailed it so the oneida believes there have been five aons of men each one lasting around two thousand years the primal the hyper boren for some more. Wholesome nazi content. Check out our segment on hyper-area episode one forty eight the sumerian the hellenistic and the current one. The western each ends and a few hundred years of increased authoritarianism and militarism and this a owns period of dictatorship they predict will begin sometime between nineteen ninety and two thousand eleven and will ask them tell twenty three ninety so any minute ten years ago now right at that point will You know up until this year. It seems like they kind of had a guy you know he figures very very prominently with a lot of these neo nazi satanic people like trump really. They saw as the guy which should come as no surprise. So at that point we'll we'll commence the sixth grade age. The a on a fire their own new satanic timescale begins in the year eighteen eighty nine. The birth year of middling watercolor colorist turned eager. European real estate tycoon adolf hitler. They have praised hitler's reich. As quote a practical expression of satanic spirit. a burst of lusa therrien lights obssessed in power in an otherwise nazarene pacified. Boring world. boy. I never thought i would hear the word zesty applied to the third reich. Yeah citrusy also nazarene being used like i'd or whatever is an interesting phrasing nazarene bay just weakened us it made us all feeble and weirdly for jew hyper violent racists. They are adamant in their holocaust. Denial saying it was a myth constructed by the magin nazarene world order to denigrate the nazis and therefore discredit them. It's so weird to me. How some of the most rabid neo nazis who foment for another holocaust feel the need to deny the actual one. Yeah no it's so crazy. So people in occult circles used to joke about the The order of nine angles of night angles as the order of no members Which is funny and true because they may be had a dozen members for a decade or more. Some people think as few as five but this gets to part of what is so different about them. They weren't really looking for any not in the normal cult since they flew almost entirely under the radar other than then my it slash anton long. They really have no leader pretty much. All their literature is available for free. They don't want money they don't want to meet you. They may be the most uncut like called. I've ever study so remember when we had my friend former Undercover fbi agent. Greg rogers on the show in episode one fifty four when dan talked to him about operation underground railroad and all the bullshit around human trafficking myths. We remember our secret. Asian man well in his career at the bureau. One of his beats was taken down. American neo nazis and he took down a lot of them And i asked him how he could keep doing it again. And again and they never got wise to it. He said it was because a they were fucking stupid and be. They were so preoccupied with taking power over whatever small group they were in so bitterly hateful of all the other groups and so consumed with infighting. They never thought to make a website where they could post all the pictures of the fed's that we're taking them down right right. i just. I couldn't believe they weren't comparing notes. Said they hate each other. The order the order of nine angles seems totally immune to any of that. There's no leadership to usurp. There's no money to embezzle. there's no power to be had by taking control called death. Ribs are just boring not boring. that's for sure cold. Expert steve. Hassen says the motivation behind cults is always some combination of money sex and power right but none of that really exists here it. It's really kind of a free open source radical ideology concocted by true believers and just left out on the dusky edge of society's view for anyone to find fucking hiep's according to china's own faq page on their ancient wordpress website. I i did promise a little bit of comedy her when when when one finds their literature one should do what they want with it if they want to become a member. They don't really have membership so they wanna become associated grape That's what they call them. People who are connected to them are just associates right right It's like gig satanism. But you're you're free to interpret it your own way or even start your own temple. Notice nexen on or not. It's up to you right and when you do that. There's no fees there's that you don't have to buy anything. It's very strange. So should you decide to actually live by the groups of what they call sevenfold. Who initiates you. Well you do dummy. And it's rather fucking tents one of the easiest. Initiation rituals is finding a secluded wild spot and laying there for an entire night without sleeping or even moving okay. Most people could probably do that. Another is to live into wilderness with zero contact with anyone with anyone else for six months the ritual of the. Yeah i have the rich. We've all seen the show alone. I don't think it's going to happen for most people at right. The ritual of the abyss has one living totally alone again this time in the depths of a cave for a month another. You're finding these caves i. There's they're they're they're here about Another is to walk alone over rough terrain covering three hundred miles in just fifteen days twenty miles a day. Which is that's dirty substantial for two weeks all this. Do you get your nazi merit badge. Well here's the other thing that's really fascinating about it. It's nobody checks funds. They have this dedication to this radical self honesty. And you've if you didn't if you didn't do it you know you failed and that's enough right. It's really fascinating. So this is some next level commitment and all you have to do to become a moment. This have the bad luck of turning eight and casserole country right right so it gets. It gets even more intense. Once you've passed those hermetic mind breaking tests. You're ready for what they call an insight role that means doing something so outside any experience you've ever had or joining a group never would have considered for at least six and up to eighteen months. It could be joining the police or the military traveling around the world on foot without dollar begging and stealing to do it joining isis seriously. You know normal gap here kind of things. Yeah this sounds. A lot. Like batman begins like a little bit does. It's like this evil kind of samurai coda right this. It's it's very. It's highly disciplined also not learning to make a lot of sense that they had no members that that part starting to make way more sense to me very few people can can pass these crucibles right or would want to or want to but some do so getting comfortable with violence and weapons training ceteris pretty normal neo nazi fair but specifically for the order of nine angles it serves a purpose called calling specifically calling of offers which is the german word for victims part of the rite of passage in self development for someone following the nine oneida paths is ritually ridding the species of unworthy garbage. This is literally part of their doctrine as laid out in several publications including a guide to human sacrifice calling a guide to sacrifice part to and victims a sinister expose and guidelines for testing of offers. You see these guys aren't just nihilist. Say what you will about the tenants of national socialism dude. At least it's an ethos right an opt for must quote self. Select what they don't. They don't know that they're being tested. But they are being watched and when an up for is called not only. Is the species less filthy but it meant like in many cannibal cultures. The murderer inherits the life force of the victim bringing them closer to being the adila uber match. The uber rich. This is not okay. Nothing nothing that's happening is is okay. No and it doesn't get better and more than a few targeted uppers have indeed been cold meaning fucking murdered by order of nine angles. Initiates more on that tick in preparation for the segment. I read many articles than one very interesting one just on neo-fascist generally in the online journal belling cat dot com by robert evans. He as an excellent quote here that could apply to so many of the segments. We do about this stuff. I should note that one of the more frustrating elements about covering the fastest right. Is that much of what they say. Sounds ridiculous and makes them appear less than serious. This is why it is important to remember that these groups have a body count and represent a real threat. There absurdity does not negate their danger and there is some silly shit about the order of nine angles. Like the fact they can't or won't get their story straight about how they got their name or that one of their most important rituals is a board game called the game of stars. They they think of it as something like the lament cube from hellraiser like a puzzle that opens up the membrane between the causal world and the acosta world Where the dark gods live. But you laugh if you see it. Because it's exactly spock's multilevel chessboard from the old star trek series right silly but these people are deadly fucking serious bright. The goal of china is chaos. Pandemonium rape murder criminality and the total implosion of the magin nazarene order to bring about the anna fire to quote from an official oh nine. Publication to acts of assault are most commonly recommended lynching and sexual assault. Jesus they ardently encourage rape as terrorism. They are also one hundred percent pro. Violent pedophilia again as a vehicle. Not only for terror and chaos but in assertion of the superior will of nine a associate to dominate the weak and the useless god. Yeah we can the useless meaning children children. Of course they are. I mean they are weak and useless in another publication. It says children must never be cold. So they they have guys ethics. They don't know they just believe they can be raped will Week so the founder of the main us us order of nine angles. next a called. The temple of blood of his lovie is a guy. Guy named joshua caleb sutter who was a real peach in addition to fashioning himself as a hyper pro north korean propagandist among a few other daffyd he was actually contacted by north korean intelligence and they were working with him and at some point they decided his just fucked in the head tweet. The north koreans are like nope can't do business with this guy among a few other daffy things he wrote a bit of ona a nine hundred nazi fanfest called iron gates. It's horrific both in envision and grammar suffices suffice it to say it paints a sloppy but nightmarish. John mcnaughton style portrait of the future. The order of nine angles wishes to foment mass murder of the intervention and endless days of child rape and torture in service of the triumph of mediocre white men. This salacious future has become an inspiration to the violent neo. Fascist paramilitary the atom waffen division whose rallying cry is iron gates. Now right so that's the future. They want horrific of course stupid without question but it has ignited the passions of more than a few hyper-violent motherfuckers everywhere. Here in america we have a lot of violent neo nazi movements. Most like my friend. Greg said are fucking idiots. Who are more likely to blow their own brains out by mistake than they are to hurt anyone else but some are not just. Here's your some of the crimes and on long's ona. Eight nine tax inspired david david copeland to play several nail bombs around the areas in london frequented by gay and immigrant communities in nineteen ninety. Nine nailbombs killed three people and injured a hundred and forty others. The british anti fast fascist group hope not hate records at least six oneida associates being prosecuted for terrorism. Twenty twenty alone here in toronto and associate of the order quote cold to south asian men who had nothing to do with anything by stabbing them in the throats in the states. Order devotee jared. William smith and army specialist was charged with leaking classified material on high explosives and weapons of mass destruction in order to kill federal agents for quote the glory of his neck religion another. Us soldier ethan. Meltzer stationed at. Us based in italy passed on information to help oneida members and an affiliated group called the rape waffen division. Who are exactly as they sound. God to ambush and kill as many of his fellow soldiers as possible. Luckily the plow stopped. He's facing life in prison of his arrest. Exposed other order associates within the military including one station in kuwait and one of the national guard who intended to use his presence at the george floyd protests last summer to start a satanic racial holy war by crazy piece of luck. He was apprehended before he can start shooting. He was also a member of the Oneida affiliated rape waffen division. That i mentioned a terror group hell bent on using rape as a weapon there. Several more known cases of murder and attempt and attempted murder and terrorism connected to the order of nine angles and groups. They have major influence over like the atom waffen division national action the sonnen craig division and the nordic resistance movement now as the order is declared not only pro human sacrifice pro rape and pro sexual violence directed at children. You may have correctly surmised that when one of the oh nine a is run to ground by the authorities. They are very likely to be in possession of a lot of images of child pornography and child rape no need to dwell any further on that but it seems to be standard equipment for apprehended associates including a teenager. Who is the youngest person ever charged with terrorism in the uk. I think he was fifteen. So what of their semi leadership. Richard moult aka christos beast went underground for several years and seems to have denounced the group. He was living as a catholic. In a rural part of england. And it wasn't until he resurfaced as a fairly prominent of folk musician. His past was rediscovered by his bandmates. Who kicked him to the curb. Although having sworn off his past he seems once again to be active in the order. And what about david. Miot aka anton long very likely the actual originator of the order as i mentioned at the top. He's a fascinating figure. In addition to kicking the lid off this nightmare. He's a classical. Greek scholar has lived all over. the world. lived for a time as both a christian and buddhist monk And in the two thousands converted to islam moved to the middle east and in fluent arabic became the west most ardent spokesperson for an advocate of osama bin laden and called for total jihad against the decadent magin nazarene order of the west. He's lived a hell of life guys. I was gonna say that. Sounds like three lifetime three completely mistrial lifetimes. But he's a horrible human being but he's also incredibly fascinating He spent ten years doing this before. Renouncing islam and moving home to rural england as well where he apparently still lives and perhaps still quietly guides the order of nine angles from his keyboard. Many people think his time in islam was just another of his many insight roles infiltrate infiltrating a group in order to raise one's awareness and possibly destroyed from within. This may also have been the motivation for richard mulched renunciation of the order his conversion to catholicism and his time in the folksy but in either case these men seem to be still at large now in their later years and despite having unleashed a methodology for very disturbed disordered minds everywhere to become the worst versions of themselves. They seem unbel- unmolested by the police which is baffling to me. Well except that the what four members there are are all in the police. Now they well. That's the thing is. They think that there's different levels of association with the order. And you kind of choose and they see they have names. There's artists who can be associated with it. There's street gangs there's Individual black black magicians can have different associations with it and they are. There's a lot of worry about how infiltrated they are into the military and police forces in the united states canada germany. Least so they're the best estimates that these anti fascist groups make is. There might be two thousand of them in the world but that seems like a couple thousand too many. Yeah most definitely so. It's a really fascinating horrible. Evil truly truly evil but very fascinating group of people right and i've never heard of them. Never got all all american law enforcement has only recently become even aware of them while they stay have managed to keep themselves in the shadow so successfully and and you know what what one of the journalists i read was talking about is they. Don't you if you come across an order of nine angles member. He's not gonna tell you right. It's a secret orders rule of fight club. Not the sloppy s. Stupid skinheads right there. There are a whole different level of discipline does not proud boys so really fascinating. But how about that raged. I'll i'm gonna sleep. Great tonight fantastic. Thanks for that. And let's move on doc if well you're a little younger than me but if you're like me you know kid kid of the child of the eighties right. I grew up with. I'd grew up with the the youth pop culture. What i was allowed to see as a young mormon which wasn't a lot like the goebbert's and he sh- he man you know yeah. Gi joe but you know what was a huge. What was a huge thing in in movies and culture at the time was the corey's right You had corey haim corey feldman they. They were writer died together. Right those two little cuties and they were just the lost boys and probably other movies. Yeah i can't remember but it was all about the corey's i remember corey wasn't in the goonies sure was that was sean asks to no no. I think they're the same person. Okay all right fair enough. Four heyman shan weiss ganz edges the same person. Yeah so anyway. I don't know if did did you enjoy the corey's daniela. Well not as much as you did. But i probably i mean you know. Only one of them made it this far and we're and the truth is while one of them did die. I don't know which one of them actually made it this far. I don't know if corey feldman who who lived. I don't know if he's the one that we can say made it because he's distance. Yeah anyway look. I am going to talk about a corey To but before we get there I wanted to talk a little bit about something. I i recently watched and i think i think you guys may have watched at least some of this too I watched as much as i was able to stomach of a debate. It took place a few weeks ago on zoom and pitted friend of the show and full attorney andrew seidel against christian gas bag and kim adventure movie bad guy. Tom trento closing statement which was beautiful extraordinary job with that. Yeah throughout the whole thing. Andrew was clear and incisive and fair in his treatment of the subject where trento unfortunately league couldn't even see or hear andrew And instead was having a totally different debate with the ender shaped straw man that he had set up next to his webcam which is that he completely ignored the reality of the person. He was debating and just plowed forward with a plan. He had crafted ahead of time. That plan had nothing to do with the extendable topic of the debate nor did he address or even acknowledge anything that the good mr seidel had said after a while the whole thing descended into chaos with trento trying desperately to trap andrew with multiple choice questions that didn't include the correct answers and throwing tantrums when he wouldn't just choose one of the options and shut up. Well how is it going to win a debate right. Exactly i wouldn't bother watching the whole thing If i were any of you though as uncle mark says andrews opening and closing speeches both knock it out of the park. So he's so he's so brilliant and and decent. Yeah and and easy on the eyes to a handsome music if you like those clean cut types. The reason i bring this up is because it is the latest for me in a very long line of moments where a believer has decided that the atheist that they've constructed in their mind is obviously far more honest and real than anything an actual atheist might say so they just ignore the real people that are right in front of them and valiantly goes to battle against the straw man army of their imaginations. They applaud each other as they bravely. Scare as bravely sleighs scarecrow after scarecrow never bothering themselves with the distant sounds of real honest arguments. Meanwhile we nonbelievers sit on our park benches watching the whole live action role play as they stabbed their dull prop swords into dummies with our name scrawled on them and then they go off to regale their churches with the noble story of their righteous victory over the savage heathens. It's a tales oldest time. And today i'm gonna prove that. I'm going to talk about an og straw man that goes back more than two thousand years. But only if you actually believe what. Mormons believe otherwise it goes back two hundred years. Because that's why. And joseph smith fabricated a pretend ancient record of jews in the americas for today's lesson. We're going to talk about one of the great characters in the book of mormon not that there's much competition corridor so core hor comes to us and leaves us in a single chapter of the book of alma for anyone stupid enough to have attempted to have read the book of mormon all the way through. You know that alma which is book. Nine of fifteen is the one where you finally lose the will to live completely Coming in at sixty three chapters. It's almost twice as long as any of the other books are boy. Horror comes in Joins the party in chapter thirty. So it's it's a brutal brutal book log i. I often encouraged our listeners. To like go ahead and go to the source material and learn stuff for yourself. Obviously but like. Don't don't read this book. not this book. yeah believe me. read this book. We're we're doing it so you don't have exactly so chapter thirty starts. In the land of zahra hemlock which was one of our favorite ones with the neophytes who are gods good white and delight some little boys and girls burying their dead after a huge with the layman knights who are gods dark skinned baddies. The surviving laminates are kicked out. The fights have some of their have some days of fasting and morning in prayer and then since they got rid of all the dark people quote there began to be continual peace throughout the land. God not racist at all. No no shut up Literally everybody was good and kept all the commandments. and shit. it's it's it's weird. That cliven bundy loves this book. Isn't it. I just had that right. Yeah strange will. And it's such a trope in throughout the book of mormon Especially in the book of alma bit but throughout that entire populations just all act as one character. You know individual no individuality or there's no fax percent. yeah there's no factions. There's no nuance opinion. Yeah the richest people were evil. The people were evil. The people are righteous fucking well and that's exactly it. This is a classic joseph smith. Move here you fix all of the problems literally make everything perfect for years then realize that you have that you have to have conflict to have a story and little they turn their hearts away from god again again right which does make me wonder how many angry frustrated grumbles martin harris heard from behind the curtain as joseph was dictating. I i imagine it to be something like this. Joseph says does the people did have no disturbance in all the sixteenth year of the reign of the judges over the people of knee fi and it came to pass in the commencement of the seventeenth. Year of the reign of the judges. There was continual piece. So it's amazing. It's amazing how long you can. You can stretch out. Nothing happened right. Exactly or martin harris is probably like hey joseph is going to pick up anytime soon right. Oh yeah yeah sure. sure sure. Let's take lunch and then we'll come back and Pick it up so anyway when they did get back from lunch. Joseph introduces the story of cora. Hor and it's a hell of an introduction comes out swinging at this guy quote. There came a man into the land of zahra hamila and he was anti christ for he began to preach unto the people against the prophecies which had been spoken by the prophets concerning the coming of christ boom. That's what passes for character building this. Yep he's new in down and he's anti christ that says bad guy yeah exactly and he literally might be one of the most nuanced characters in the book of mormon. It's to that in that moment. That joseph smith didn't invent a pre pre columbian railroad for him to tie a woman to one hundred percent. Yes exactly now. He's not the anti christ mind you. he's just anti christ. Yeah later he is. He's handed la- leader. He's an anti christ. So lots of ways to use that phrase. I guess anyway. The point is that we're supposed to hate him and that's all we know about him for a minute. Then the ebook answers the question. We're all asking which is if he's preaching against the prophecies. Why isn't he getting his ass kicked. Well now. now we get to several versus. About the hemlock criminal justice system it turns out that in ancient mesoamerica you were legally allowed to believe or not believe. Isn't that nice. And there are several versus justifying this position. Because old joseph was clearly deeply ambivalent about whether heathens should be allowed to speak or not right but the knee of hemlock landed on yes you can be a disgusting evil satan worshipping shit bag atheist if you want to perv and the good book gives a series of reasons why god wants it that way. God wants an open society where people are free to believe what they want and they have the legal right to talk about their beliefs freely. Put a pin in that anyway. Seven versus later. We're back to this anti christ. Which in this book is hyphenated with. Both words capitalized. By the way he finally gets a name the name corridor and even though we just had an entire opening arguments episode about alternative religious views in fight law. It is once again emphasized that he's legally allowed to do this. No matter how mad that makes you anyway. Core is preaching. There will be no christ remember. This takes place before. Jesus this is like bbc. Seventy five or something like that. So there's still waiting for this messiah and that there's no god and that there's no evidence that the prophecies are true. He says quote. Oh ye that are bound down under a foolish and vain. Hope whitey. yoke yourselves with such foolish things. Why do you look for christ for. No man can know anything which is to come. Behold these things which ye call prophecies which you say are handed down by holy prophets behold. They are foolish. Traditions of your father's so i like this guy feels pretty right. I'm with you great. And here's what's interesting about this chapter. Joseph smith like all the screenwriters of all of the best godawful movie episodes has to thread a needle here if you want the character to be at all believable which you know. It's a book of mormon. Why start now but whatever he has to try to make him make some sense but it can't make too much sense or you know readers might realize that he's actually you know the one who's right. So joseph smith throws in classic the classic the a straw man which is people who leave the church. Just want to sin now. This one's ubiquitous in the modern era. If you google why do people come become atheists or why do people leave the church and you find a christian websites answer. I guarantee you somewhere on that page. You'll find this. They just want us in. yeah now. Nobody that i've ever met or even heard of became an atheist because they wanted to sit no way and religious people have no problem sending they do it all the time to church on sunday. It's not fucking biggie. Right considering a source of this material reading right now exactly yeah totally. Now i will say this. There are some folks who eventually noticed that. God's rules about sex were stupid and that led them to realize that god might not be real and then they went on to have a delightful and less fettered sex life. But that's not leaving because you want to sin that's leaving because you realize that you were lied to and then sending well. Inside the central contradiction. There is that if i'm not into religion those religious religiously mandated since or not since right. It's just having a drink or get though. They often though they they will often say. I've heard many a believer. Say well you still believe you just want to send so you pretend like you don't believe also put a pin in that anyway. Oh quarterhorse horse said quote. There could be no atonement made for the sins of men but every man fared in this life according to the management of the creature. I guess meeting were all just animals. Therefore every man prospered according to his genius and and that every man conquered according to his strength and whatsoever. A man did was no crime right. Yeah what atheists believe is that you can do whatever you want. And since there's no god to tell you what's right or wrong there's no such thing as crime and everything is god. Damn free parole. Yeah yup that's added wildlife entirely. It's what we're all about. It's why they're the prisons are packed with atheists positively overflowing Now regardless of that stupidity apparently a guy talking mostly reasonably about the logical problems of magic. Daddy's in the sky and wizards predicting the future was a welcome diversion in perfect step. Fortunes are a hamlet and a bunch of people started listening and liking what they were hearing and women and men immediately turned to quote committing horde. Them that's what worry orden's yeah exactly. Ooh his own. He should get a t shirt. Well that's his podcast. Exactly yeah any who core a horror did didn't stay in zor He took a show on the road. You went to the land of jerry sean. To preach to the people of ammon who used to be lamen nights They're the evil dark skinned ones remember. But here's a twist. These guys were more wise than the knee fights. It literally says that and they immediately bound core whore and dragged him in front of ammon who was the high priest who him to be quote carried out of the land. Didn't we spend an oddly. Long amount of time talking about how it was good and god or deigned. The people be free to preach whatever they want. Shut up is it really. It's a different time now idiot. Exactly literally. I guess i just love the place where they are. More wise is the place where they're going against. God's idea of how the law is supposed to go but anyway the idea that martin harris was probably from behind the curtain going. Hey you know you wrote that stuff about really no freedom of speech. Does she want to set up a theocracy. Shit it's literally this. This chapter goes back and forth on that issue a dozen times. It's it's your head starts to spin anyway. Then cora hor tried his shtick in the land of gideon and they bound him and took him to the high priest and the chief judge of the land named good dona. Now i'm i'm not. I'm going to read a pretty big section of this because it's the first time we actually hear what cohorts says and well. It's pretty fucking compelling so this is him talking to godot the high-priced you say this people is a free people. Behold i say they are in bondage. You say that those ancient prophecies are true. Behold i say you don't know that they are true you say that these people This is a guilty and fallen people because of the transgression of apparent hold. I say that a child is not guilty because of his parents and he also say that christ show come but behold i say he do not know the that you didn't do not know that there she'll be a christ and you also say that he shall be slain for the sins of the world. And thus you lead the people you lead away this people after the foolish traditions of your fathers and according to your own desires and you keep them down even as they were in bondage that they might glut. Oh the might glut yourselves. With the labors of their hands and they durst not look look up with boldness and they durst not enjoy their rights and privileges. They not make use of that which is their own less they should be less should offend their priests who do yoke them according to their desires and have brought them to believe by their traditions and their dreams and their whims and their and their visions and their pretend mysteries that they should if they did not do according to their words of offend some unknown being who they say is god a being who has never. Who's who is who never has been seen or known who never was nor ever will be to me. That is a pretty shocking slam. Dunk corey i wanna come on the show. Yeah excellent work. Yeah reading from an outsider's perspective. That is some hard hitting skepticism. Yeah anyway very reasonable totally reasonable. Yeah anyway the high priest did what all believers do. When they hear a skeptic challenge their beliefs he told horror that his heart was hard and shipped back to our hemlock. Because that's good writing. Why did we leave anyway. Where if we're just going back to stand before the big boss alma skunk done done now almaz guy who's going to set things right. He's the great wise high priest who has the apologetic to put cohort hitchens in his place. First he tackles the claim that the priests make money off the labor of the people and for this. He uses the classic apologetic do not. He literally takes several paragraphs to say. I make my own money so shut up. Then they say they get to the real stuff all my ass core if he believes in god and in christ core horse says a new. Hasn't he clear although rates. Yeah exactly almost says almost starts to do the classic logical fallacy and says what evidence have you that there is no god or that christ cometh not i say unto you that you have none save it is your word only thereby demonstrating that not only does he not understand who has the burden of proof but that he doesn't recognize that his own arguments can be turned back to him because guess who's word only is also the only evidence for the other side. Then he makes his big proof that god does indeed exist things. You know all the things that's literally as argument. He's shocked the coral can't see it. Frankly yeah so does the final gambit he asks for evidence that god is real. Show me a sign. He says i'll believe now in real life that is a one hundred percent reasonable thing to ask but almaz like but the things look at all the things that's your goddamn sign so core just refuses to acknowledge the things and and says that's not a very good argument. He's such a stubborn. It's acquaintances five ways. Right right a look. There's a world someone made the stars move. Someone makes it's like okay. That's pretty deep. Just the same argument over and over again. Obviously yeah where did it alone from. Yeah so this is the point in the story where it takes a tarantino pivot where we take one moment in this godforsaken book that feels slightly realistic and we plunge into adolescent doofus style. Magic reality revenge stupidity alma. Says you wanna sign. I'll show you assign since you won't shut up and stop ruining god for everybody. God will shut you up. And with that corps is struck dumb permanently and with that corridor like a good and consistent skeptic that he has always been admits in writing that he was wrong and that god must exist. because he can't speak anymore do you think he was carrying his own. Gold-plate jot that down on or do they provide you with one in the courts. What's really funny. And i didn't write this. But what's really funny. Is that when they ask him believing in god now somebody writes it to him as though so such a dumb as just ask him. It's far anyway anyway. yes there's another popular believers straw man right there because about how he always they throw the throw the in this a straw man about how he always secretly believed deep down and that satan tricked him by coming to him like an angel to tell him that there was no god because as we all know god right. Yeah non-belief so often starts with an angelic visitation skepticism. A supernatural right here. Exactly but honestly really. Who's the bad guy here. Cora horror has conflicting beliefs based on lack of evidence and once he gets good evidence even though it fucks him up for life he acknowledges it but that's not the takeaway that we're supposed to get no cora. Hor is pronounced wicked and ends up going door to door begging for food because apparently mute people can't work and everyone who has believed him reverts back to being a good little good little church mouse and eventually core horror was viciously trampled to death. Oh my god and lest you think that i'm skewing. How the book presents this fate you with the actual final verse of the chapter which has a rare moral of the story style ending and thus we see the end of him who perverted the ways of the lord thus we see that the devil will not support his children at the last day but deaths speedily drag them down to hell and the name of jesus christ amen. Yeah so he's he should stand as a shining example of the power of the gospel right and he should be like what you know. That's what they were teaching missionaries and the mtc is cory horwitz convinced. It took striking mute and then there were some scribblings in the courtroom yada yada but but the hardest of hearts can be changed and and according to their own belief system. Harp became a good guy. The am i wrong. Yeah oh yeah. But i think the takeaway from this story at least from their perspective is don't ask questions yeah right. It's meant to chill to put a chill into the spine of anyone who would dare ask for a sign or ask for evidence or ask for any kind of reality based reason to believe this. Well i don't know dan if you're gonna if you're gonna go go here but i do know a lot of people who had a faith crisis because of the story. Oh really in the same way that. I know of some people who had faith crises because of the story of jesus in the fig tree because if says in that story it wasn't fixed season just went up to the victory didn't have figs so fucked up. Yeah yeah in. This story like corridor is making valid points. He has questions you wants to know and god strikes him dumb right and he says i believe and it ends up being a poor beggar and and getting trampled today. Yeah what's the what's the point of changing your mind. You know like what value is there. Yeah and if you read the story and you're like okay. Here's the problem. I'm having the lesson of the story is not supposed to ask questions. But the story has caused me to have questions fucking. We're supposed to do with that. Yeah it's a mess it's a it's a fun little thing and again. Every time we do a story in the book of mormon. It's just a lesson in why we don't why we edit why we don't claim that our book was directly translating from another book that's directly from god and the and thus make it so that we can't actually like you know edit the other stuck with this garbage mess a story forever it's an albatross around their necks but there you go there you go The third corey. Yep go get out there and have a have a corey horror of time and let's move on. Hey uncle mark yes sir. I know that you you recently crossed a border that is that is somewhat impenetrable right now. Because you know we're still in the middle of a pandemic. I managed to slide through into a closed country. The largest undefended border in the world. Which is quite something. You just got a loop up a lot got you gotta make a run for it anyway. The one of the things that you did before you went there was to get yourself A shot in the arm. I sure did. And i'm glad i did. Yeah and i've got my appointment. I finally got an appointment. Because i finally utah in utah. I'm in an age group. That's going to get them. So i in a in a week and a half. I'm going to be getting my first. Shot they the oh. That's good so they finally lowered it to uncles exactly. It's now well yeah exactly like mark old people style but like you know as young spry uncles can get them to now here teenagers. Well that's right but the question is do i really want it. I think there's a lot to unpack their no it just venting. This disease is not a good idea for some reason. I'm not sure why. But i'm pretty sure that uncle doug you can tell me. Well i'm gonna do my best to convince you otherwise okay Yeah like uncle. Dan just referenced uncle mark and i have both been vaccinated. I'm so happy to hear about that down. He didn't know that that you're getting your vaccine in a in short order. Yeah that's great news and once the government has managed to get all podcasters vaccinated. They can move onto doctors nurses teachers and the general public so essential workers. That's right right so hopefully many of you out there have either received your first vaccination or getting close to being able to something tells me joe rogan's not going to be getting one but that's a subject for another needle would break trying to penetrate is fuck and skin. It's crazy that it's basically been one year since this all started depending on obviously where you are and so it's it's hard not to take stock of what we've all been through in these last twelve interminable months but as the experts keep telling us we are not through this yet and whether we actually get out of this depends on the vast majority of doing the right things. We still need to wash our hands. Practice proper social distancing stay away from parties sporting events and concerts wear masks diligently and get the fucking vaccine as soon as we all can. There is still a real possibility that this virus could mutate into something that makes all the sacrifice effort for nothing so the subject of my segments could not be more timely today. I wanna talk about anti vaccine and the anti vaccine movement like on this show. We've talked about every form and fashion of out. There of wu there. An anti vaccine is definitely a woo. But most moves are basically harmless. If you wanna get your palm read go for it. If you don't want to leave the house until you've read your daily horoscope cares if you want to try and communicate with your dead relatives via a ouija board. I light the candles for you if you want to stick ajay up your recently steamed gene. Cram the fucker up there. Just don't do it during allergy season. Jade is hypoallergenic. Of course these was. These lose can be harmful if say by following some fortune cookie prediction. You make bad decisions. And there are wounds that are that are inherently harmful like trepidation or reputation trepidation grimace conjuring. Being being reluctant is not a woo. Yeah but there is only one wou that is on the world health organization's top ten list of global health threats. And that's antitax or as they put it vaccine hesitancy want to know what else is on that list. Well covid nineteen obviously poor third world third world health. Care you bulla. Dang gay fever. Hiv and climate change. That's right guy fieri. You're that's right. The world health organization sees anti vacs as dangerous as aids and climate change. Jesus there is no real way to know how many people die every year due to anti vaccine damage it causes but the. Who believes that. At least one point five million people a year could be saved if vaccine distribution was marginally improved and one of the biggest impediments to that. Marginal improvement is the anti vaccine movement. So yeah i see you know the the numbers get big real fast As we'll discuss the anti vaccine movement could actually derail our defeat. Derail our efforts to defeat cove in nineteen plunging. His back into the pit where we we were all a year ago and killing millions more people unlike the viruses of the body this movement seeks to protect anti vaccine viruses of the mind and as such might be one of the deadliest viruses in history underlying all of this is the fact that anti vaccine stupid belligerent anti-science often racist and easily disapproval. Not only that. But it's also inconsistently applied illogical to its core and poorly thought out if any of its adherents think about it all. Oh they think they think hard they have developed many many vo ciprusov ways of defending their positions. So well if you say so. But we're not saying good or smartwatch. Just many many ways. Let's agree on loud. Okay unlike other words this one has to be confronted and defeated or were doomed. I would never tell you to slap the tarot cards out of the hands of the yoga instructor. You're trying to have sex with but if you know any anti vaccine you should really talk to them and try and change their mind. If this virus of the mind is not confronted and treated it could kill us all. So let's dig in shall we As early as the tenth century in china someone noticed that those who had previously had a mild case of a deadly disease where less susceptible to that disease later this led to a practice called variation wherein poss- or scabs from an infected person are blown up the nasal passages rubbed on scratches on the skin of an uninfected individual. I know this just sexy as it said. I know this sounds disgusting but honestly it was probably the least disgusting thing to have happened to you. On any given day in the tenth century why this practice worked in would would would remain a mystery for centuries but by the sixteenth and seventeenth century. It was in fairly wide use in china india and turkey before making its way to england in the eighteenth century. Now here's the thing. Eighteenth century england was certainly somewhat enlightened Certainly somewhat enlightened place for the world back then but that doesn't mean it wasn't still barbaric. Yeah so some of the first True scientific experiments of vaccines were carried out on children prisoners and slaves. None of who are you going to do it. On good like grown up white people essentially aldrin. This would pretty disposable. Then the children's a bad show for kids man doubt this would unfortunately be a part of the development and experimentation to vaccines for well over one hundred years as we'll see these evil practices would become a bit a small bit of the fodder that would become the anti vaccine movement But before we get to that let's talk about. How what what a game. Changing development vaccine science was for the human race prior to their development. When a disease crossover from some animal to humanity. All we can really do is just wait for it to run. Its course outbreaks of cholera influenza. And of course ends long. That's known as the trump plan. That's exactly right exactly so yeah. Outbreaks of cholera influenza and of course bubonic plague would kill millions of people per outbreak. The version of the botanic plague known as the black death killed between seventy five and two hundred million people between thirteen forty-six and thirteen fifty three. Jeez yeah bad guys. They were just week from. Hiv aids is still a global pandemic has killed more than thirty six million people. Since nineteen eighty-one of course there is not a vaccine yet for this disease but the therapeutics are incredible. If expensive and hiv aids is very preventable. The reasons that it has and continues to spread basically racism and religious are very much a part of the anti vaccine movement as we'll discuss but yeah i mean that you know. We were all alive during the aids crisis in the eighties. Although you know pretty young and pretty dumb but that was a terribly preventable disease. That was treated as a gay disease. A black disease on african disease and was able to spread. So that's good stuff and and and when people died of it it was horrid. It was absolutely horrible. Fact that these therapeutics are now exist when and guys that caught it in the original wave are dying of old age is incredible. It's incredible bears mentioning. We'll get back to this. That's not happening everywhere that aids problem but of course it's right exactly so in the eighteen eighties. Louis pasteur brought. What was a pretty chaotic and unorganized field of science into the modern age when he developed microbial fermentation and pasteurization. Since then we have developed vaccines for pure peer parl. Fever rabies anthrax cholera polio measles. Tetanus smallpox chickenpox influenza. hpv. Hepatitis lime disease. Rubella whooping cough wrote rotavirus mumps diptheria dang game malaria tuberculosis among others so It's you know it's been a game changing development for the human species. This of course brings us to today and the emergence of covid nineteen as we have all become acutely aware. This disease is incredibly contagious. Having spread from wuhan china to every corner of the globe in a matter of months as of the time of this record covid nineteen has killed two point six nine million people worldwide with the us accounting for five hundred thirty nine thousand of those deaths. So where number. One and because of the incumbent national governments the selfishness of far too many and the vast amounts of disinformation ready in the psychological bloodstream. From the anti vaccine movement this disease was poised to simply just wash around the globe over and over until mcnew and more resistant and more deadly strains evolved and let's not be too optimistic. This could still happen. We are in desperate. Yeah yeah we're we're in a desperate foot race against these variants as we speak the only way we can beat this virus back and stop the carnage let alone get back to some sort of normalcy is for enough of us in our fellow humans all over the world not just in our own countries to get the vaccines that are now available to reach her immunity. Now we've all heard that term. It is of course the critical mass of humans that have to have immunity such that the the the disease cannot spread with impunity. Excuse me the former president called it herd mentality suggests wrong in the most apt freudian slip in history once herd immunity is reached. The reproduction number reaches zero. This is called are not right or rs. Zero right now covid. Nineteen is between our two and our three meaning that each person who gets it can infect two to three other people in order to return immunity or not with covid nineteen fifty and sixty seven percent of the population needs the vaccine in america. This means one hundred and sixty four million two hundred twenty four million people need to be vaccinated but but more would be better always better. This is the baseline just to stop the the you know the the spread on but remember this is a global pandemic and the longer this disease persists anywhere. The higher the chance of chances that dangerous variants can evolve. Defeat the vaccines so to win this fifty to sixty seven percent of the populations of england china iraq togo and benin needs to be vaccinated worldwide. That is three point. Eight to five point. One billion people need to get vaccinated and fast as of now. Seventy seven or so million americans have received at least their first dose of the vaccine which is a good start but globally only four hundred ten million people have been vaccinated so far. That's bad that's only eight to eleven percent of where we need to be We are not through this yet and there is no time to spare and there is certainly not time for the disinformation campaign by the anti vaccine movement and its erstwhile allies The mere fact that we have these vaccines at all is truly incredible. And i've heard you know including us have referred to it is miraculously because that word by its very definition is meant to apply to events that defy explanation or explanation explanation or expectations. But this was not a miracle this was the achievement of scientists and the body of work. They have all contributed to. So let's talk about these vaccines for a second because it will. It will inform where we end up while the covid nineteen virus was new to humanity hence the term novel there was a robust body of knowledge of corona viruses out there due to the previous corona vices. Like sars and mers right. This data was shared globally in an open source initiative. Call g sad or id which shares genomic data on influenza viruses with anybody that wants it because of that body of knowledge we were not starting out from zero but even still Not only had to take years to develop vaccines in the past. There was not any vaccine in existence for any kind of corona virus so the challenge was extreme as the pandemic enveloped the globe in there in early. Two thousand twenty scientists were able to isolate covid. Nineteen genetic sequence on january eleventh twenty twenty which in itself is incredible next. there was. Yeah that's really quick. Super super quick next. There was an unprecedented collaborative Undertaken by national governments drug companies and research universities to find a vaccine. The main vehicles for this effort were the. Who an initiative by the g. twenty called access to covid nineteen tools. Accelerator so these are the two main bodies that kind of tried to coordinate all this research. I think you mean president. Trump's warp speed initiative. Well i'll i'll get to that for so k. and yes that's the w. h. o. That said donald trump pulled us from in may of twenty twenty because he needed to blame someone for his failures and this is true because they refuse to call it. The china virus which is something that would have no evil consequences at all right. Yeah that hasn't turned into anything even shittier nope no. It's been great so ankle. Dan mentioned warp speed in. May trump announced operation warp speed which was an effort to fast track. Funding clinical trials approval and distribution of potential vaccines. It was named operation warp speed because donald trump is a child. Yeah but the the the thing is also you think he ever watched star trek like he. The i'm guessing that was a that was a jared kushner name or don jr. something yeah i know like he doesn't seem to watch something like that in glean anything from it. He's just too fucking self is was the fact that it wasn't operation. Trump speed is pretty surprising. So the thing is it's not a bad idea to do this. But trump ran it early like he's run everything else in his life Into the ground basically. So although moderna moderna and johnson and johnson did take funding from warp speed to develop vaccines pfizer did not not wanting to infect pun intended their research with the trump administration's incompetence as for the distribution phase of warp speed. Trump did basically nothing right. God only knows how this would append out. Had he won the election point of order. He didn't do nothing. he took full credit for. That's exactly right it's true that's not nothing. That's what's so funny. Not only you know. He's claiming credit to this day for the vaccines. I think should give him some. You know some credit and respect because we all remember how much credit and respect trump gave the previous administration for the economy right exactly so trump is claiming credit for this to this day which sets up one of the many contradictions in the story. The foot soldiers in trump's army are by and large q. on believing anti vaccine and here we have trump winking at them while demanding credit for the vaccines yeah and very typically encouraging people to get vaccinated but keeping his own vaccination secret. This will not. It's but but you we know that the cue brain is incredibly incoherency is it's not a problem truly and i'm i remain convinced that trump didn't show a picture of getting the vaccine because he didn't want to see him in short sleeved shirt with his shirt pulled up. I believe right well. None of us wanted to see. That's i think him for it. That's fair so with all that context. Let's get to the anti vaccine. Since the first vaccinations there have been anti vaccine. There's there were those who objected to having scabs blown up their nostrils because it was gross and it was weird and no one understood why it worked or in many cases because religious leaders railed against these religious arguments ran the gamut from scientists devil worship to viruses were created by god to punish the wicked and any attempt to stop them was fighting against the will of god all right. It's it's the same reason that when ben franklin put a lightning rod on wherever it was town hall and philadelphia or whatever and all the churches inveighed against as as yup subverting god's will and then two years later they all had lightning round exactly. Yeah so in the nineteenth century there were anti vaccination leagues that sprung up in the us and the uk that slowed down the vaccination campaigns against smallpox and led to untold numbers of unnecessary deaths. Similar leagues appeared. All around the world. is that campaign continued. Most of these leagues focused on. What would become the main fear of all anti vaccine harm to children. Most current anti vaccine fall into two buckets with one being far larger and more nefarious than the other. The biggest grin. We just keep them in the bucket. Really we could seal it then. That would be great. the biggest group or those. That believe they are. There is some conspiracy or several conspiracies behind vaccines. And we'll get to that he's ranged from the profit motive of the pharmaceutical and medical industry all the way to alien experimentation of course whatever their particular belief is it's based on a belief in dark forces with no regard regard for public health. The second much smaller bucket are those that simply. Don't care enough to get vaccinated. They're part of the problem. So don't feel any need to be part of the solution so while the latter is certainly a cause for concern. It's the former group that is a global crisis and there are different kinds of anti vaccine. There's some who to completely deny an issue any kind of accent. There are some that want to spread out. Vaccinations over time. Only get this one or that one so the kind of run the gamut but they pretty much all believe the same things. they're all looking at the same materials and so we're going to keep them in a single group for the purpose of this discussion. Because whatever you're doing if you're slowing down vaccines or you're not getting him. You're the effect is the same right. Modern yeah the modern iteration of this insanity has its roots in the campaign to vaccinate against it. Fury tetanus pertussis hope. I said that right process. I think in the nineteen seventies conflicting and spurious reports appeared in the uk press that there was significant neurological after effects from this vaccine in children. Not true but in the history of followed a film called vaccination roulette and a book called a shot in the dark hit the market. These two works described. Dark conspiracies joins stuck what this was in the nineteen seventies late nineteen seventies early august. Okay this you know what we call the anti vaccine movement isn't that old you know and i thought actually well it didn't get get it's real. We'll get to early where it kinda got so it's injection so to speak right But the so both these films were films. Booker complete hui. But they're still around today. There's still in circulation then came the inciting incident of the modern anti vaccine movement in nineteen ninety eight a british physician named andrew wakefield released a paper in the lancet called iliad lymphoid najah hyperplasia nonspecific colitis and pervasive developmental disorder. In children. try saying that three times or just once The paper claimed a link between vaccinations for measles. Mumps rubella and autism in children right given the wakefield was a doctor at the time. He's not anymore right and the paper sounded scientific. It caused a major stir one that we are still feeling today. I don't want to spend too much time on wakefield because he is truly one of the world's greatest monsters and quite literally may have as much blood on his hands. As any of history's greatest villains. Yeah he's essentially a baby murderer. Yeah yeah Except to say that it turns out that he was paid by various organizations to produce the paper and the paper itself was so completely spurious. That lancet retracted wakefield with stripped of his medical license. That hasn't stopped him though he was behind. The you know quote unquote documentary faxed. That came out in the in the two thousands with the tagline. The movie they don't want you to see gotta love that. That's a that all conspiracy theories that's catnap right exactly and it's basically the citizen kane of the anti vaccine movement. Glenn watch the trailer for this monster. Snipe nightmare if you're up to it. And if you're not filled with boiling hate for wakefield. I don't wanna know you. It's necessary it's manipulative. It's grotesque it's shocking. The godawful movies guys did it right. Yeah i think they pound a nail. It's horrible and not for nothing but because you know autism is tragic and it's very difficult for families of autistic people to you know to raise autistic children and And again i'm. I'm not trying to shame her or anyone out. There is offended by. I don't mean that. By any stretch. I i would i would. I would ask to modify tragic. I think it's just simply a a different way of being that yes can be more challenging. Yeah of course and but to try and manipulate people with autistic children autistic family members and use that video to manipulate others. I think his tragic up and completely missing from the conversation is the fact that autism is way better than most of the diseases. Which vaccines present promote google fucking picture of smallpox. So in the in the research or polio polio. And the research for this. I saw a lot of. What's so fucked up. Is i saw a lot of photos about this stuff. From recent like not pictures of people with smallpox in eighteen ninety smallpox is as it recurred it. The smallpox hasn't but polio has had some outbreaks and stuff like that. Because of this fucking shit so the sequel to this piece of shit vacs movie faxed to the people's truth. Electric google was released in november of two thousand nineteen mere months before the covid pandemic and. I don't want to wish ill on people. So i'm gonna stop talking about wakefield right now But this this fear that these vaccines caused autism was based on the fact Pounded in these documentaries that these vaccines contain traced can contained trace amounts of mercury in the form of a chemical called mirasol which contains forty nine percent methylmercury ever so little mirasol was used in these vaccines that it came nowhere near a dose that could potentially cause harm and in fact in two thousand three danish researchers conducted a study involving thousands of children who who received vaccines containing and thousands who receive vaccines that contain none and they found that the instances of autism was exactly the same in both groups. This these vaccines the mirasol. A methylmercury are not causing autism but the mirasol has been removed from almost every major vaccine simply due to the public perception. Yeah so The unfortunate truth though is this fear vaccines and medical science. Being less than forthright and ethical is not entirely without cause. I mentioned earlier. That the first vaccination experiments were carried out on slaves children and prisoners. Not good then. I don't want slaves and prisoners to get it but i'm just wondering why the children are thrown in there. I think it is i think. No i think it's because a lot of these diseases struck children's childhood okay. So they're they're like oh we'll just use children to experiment with ren of course there were. There were the tuskegee. Experiments carried out by the public. Health service tuskegee university. And the cdc in which african american men were told. They were being given free healthcare to treat their syphilis when in reality they were not and for forty years. They were observed to see what long term syphilis would do to the human body. Yeah this led to the painful and miserable death of one hundred twenty eight of the men. It is one of the darkest chapters in american medical history and has been a consistent reason for mistrust of the us government particularly by african americans. Ever since for good reason yeah there are. There are some people that are that. I think are justified in their hesitancy. Yep but it's not fucking jenny mccarthy and you know her fucking social set of white upper class liberals in hollywood bowl right. Yeah and we'll definitely we'll we'll dig into that and hate on some people here in a minute But the tuskegee experiments diddley disa- major reforms in the us health industry that remain today including the creation of the office for human research protections within the health and human health and human services administration so these exist specifically to prevent anything like that from ever happening again. The body of law that exists because of to gigi is significant but if your natural inclination is to mistrust the government will the tuskegee experiment. Certainly don't help yeah Another tenant of the anti vaccine movement is something called vaccine overload. This is not a medical term by the way but essentially means that too much vaccine or vaccines administered in two rapid a succession will weaken the immune system and lead to adverse affects again. This is hogwash. Not only have so. This is a really interesting fact. Not only a vaccine become so efficacious over the last several decades such that the immune immunological components in the fourteen. Vaccines administered to children. Today is less than ten percent of what it was in the seven. Vaccines administered in nineteen eighty hour. Yeah it's the vaccine. Science has has come a long way and not for nothing but many vaccines must be administered on a specific timeline. In order to work yet right yeah vaccine overload. Unfortunately it's still a common try amongst Anti vaxxers ironically the success of many vaccines one of the main driving forces behind behind the anti vaccine trump actually brought that up at one of the debates for he was president. Yeah it just saying well. Why don't we just space it out more exactly. Yep so the success of many vaccines ironically working against them. You know quote. Nobody has measles or polio anymore. So why do they keep injecting us with. It is like a common trope of anti vaccine so while the answer to this seems so obvious as to be mind-blowing it's very common Because of this. Ironically antibac- sentiment has caused outbreaks of cholera whooping cough measles mumps into brick yellow says in the united states in the last several years I'm all of which were basically eliminated up exactly. I mentioned before that there is inherent racism to anti vaccine movement because there is the firstly the anti vaccine movement is heavily involved in all things conspiratorial including and on which are inherently racist. Nobody wants to be called a racist especially racist. Most anti actors don't even wanna called bat preferring the moniker vaccine risk aware and you know anti vaccine is by no means only a white phenomenon however the communities often hit first and hit hardest by disease outbreaks or black and brown communities one of the best ways to combat and curb the spread of of viral diseases is to get them where they start which is oftentimes poorer countries so back in two thousand fourteen. We went to west african. We the us went to west africa to help prevent the spread of a bola and successfully managed to keep this terrible disease from spreading out of control. Guess what anti vaccine are often against funding for efforts in these poor often black and brown countries. We're seeing this in real time now with covid. Nineteen the reasons that black and brown communities are medically disadvantaged are many and systemic but they are undeniable. Yeah so i'm sorry. If you're unsubstantiated ridiculous and easily just provable. Beliefs lead to bad outcomes in primarily black and brown communities. I don't know what else to that racist. Anti vaccine just stinks of white privilege front. Yes it does for sure yet it unfortunately. This movement has garnered some famous kind of and powerful adherents for minor. Celebrities like jessica biel jim carey jenny. Mccarthy leashes still re silverstone gentleman juliette lewis. Charlie sheen rob Danny masterson selma blair and to a certain extent bill. Maher up to god. help me robert deniro. I know that. Oh that one hurts. Yeah yeah really why. Well i mean. I guess i still want my money back for bad grandpa but expect good actor but i never thought of is an idiot. Yeah exactly yeah well and then not to mention like you said. Uncle mark the forty fifth president of the united states donald j trump among many tweets and outbursts on the subject. He tweeted in two thousand fourteen quote healthy young child goes to doctor gets pumped with massive shot of many vaccines doesn't feel good and changes autism. Many such doesn't feel good and changes was. It was a good tweet though. We gotta give him credit for that. That's a solid there. So yeah the man. In charge of project warp speed the government initiative to generate and distribute a vaccine from may of twenty twenty two january of two thousand twenty. One was an anti vaccine and then of course the overwhelming scientific consensus is that vaccines are widely safe in effect ineffective. There aren't many things that have such a consensus if four out of five. Dentists recommend a toothbrush. You're going to go buy it yet. That's nothing compared to the consensus on vaccines right and not for nothing. We've harped on this before. The scientific method that led to vaccines is the same method. That has led to air travel smartphones. Gps viagra the germ theory of disease. Chris larynx jar jar. Binks electricity the internet and grimace conjuring. You don't get to pick and choose here you believe in reputable science or you don't and if you don't that's fine but pleased to be handing your car keys and laptop. You can be skeptical about it but once the once you examine the evidence right. There's nothing to support the anti vaccine position exactly well except that they've got their own evidence and a they've got a whole cadre of their own doctors and their own scientists to save the opposite things and go ahead go ahead. I was going to say and you're going to mention this but the catholic church of course just came out and said cat. Catholic shouldn't get the johnson and johnson vaccine because fetal tissue was part of the research. I didn't even know that. Yep i'm gonna. I'm gonna go punch a hole in my television real quick. Yeah so this brings us to our current crisis throughout the covert bent pandemic anti vaccines have been howling that this was a hoax or that it was a bio weapon that the chinese either released on purpose lost control of and now that the vaccines are untested and dangerous. This was all spelled out in yet another quote unquote documentary released in two thousand twenty called. Plan democ oh yeah. This piece of propaganda push push the conspiracy. That covid was manmade. The doctors and hospitals use the pandemic as a money making venture. That masks actually caused disease and that hydroxychloroquine is active in stopping cove. It absolutely none of this is true and his counterproductive dangerous. But if you know any anti vaccine is you can bet money. They've seen it. So the filmmakers have been discredited the whole thing is a piece of shit But it's out there and the final piece of the puzzle to talk about is the speed with which the covid vaccines were developed. Rather than with develop. Because that's a big trope of anti vaccine is this came out too fast Rather than seeing this as a towering achievement of medical science anti factors point to it as proof that it's all rigged their point being that the government had them all along or they weren't tested rigorously enough and we don't know what's in them or both or both legs to believe all the things that can believe all the things regardless of what it whether it makes any sense to the first point i can only say that if donald trump had been hiding the vaccine this whole time and the early release would have guaranteed victory. Is there any personal life. That thinks he would not have blurted it out at some point tolerate to the second point we do know what's in these vaccines you can look it up online. The thing is if you're not a medical or virological expert or can speak english like me. You're probably not going to fully understand the you know what's in the stuff but again i don't fully understand how the internal combustion engine works but i don't think it's a government conspiracy to get me to work on time in your car. People know it's fucking pizza when they order. That's exactly what i find it. Hard to stomach the argument that we should refuse to put something in her body unless we fully understand what it's what it's from. What's in it from the people who celebrate the return of the mcrib right right Yeah i mean think about that. The next time you cram doritos in your mouth and wash it. Down with vodka tonic so anyway And they were rigorous rigorously tested. No steps were skipped in stroke of genius. Many of the steps necessary to create and test vaccine were run concurrently rather than in sequence and insert and some of the funding for this process. Came from you guessed. It operation warp speed so through the teeth. If you must you can tell your antitax friends. That trump deserves some credit here although with five hundred thirty nine thousand caveats. Yeah so we're getting a little long in the tooth here. I thought it was important to cover all this ground. So let's just sum up. Vaccines do not cause autism. In children there is no such thing as vaccine overload. We know exactly what's in the covid vaccines they were absolutely tested are very safe and you should not be taking your medical advice from charlie sheen adam right. Take it from us exactly. Take it from your doctor. So you know i hate to do this. But if there are any anti vaccine in your life it might be a worthwhile effort to engage with them and try if you can to convince them or enlighten them or move them because this thing is bad. It's real bad and we need everybody onboard. Unfortunately it's not just a matter of well they're only risking their own lives because they're not. There's there's no peeing section. The public pool is it. Is it so dangerous to them. They're willing to go through another fucking year of this right. You know four or five years because who knows if a variant pops up that's trickier. That's harder to make a vaccine for. Yeah we're all fucked so thank. God we've got a vaccine yup get it get. Let's get the herd immunity so that you were okay. We need to do this together. And and you know someone's going to have to talk to these people going to have to be us. It's gonna have to be us if if not now when if not who us. That's right all right okay. Well thanks uncle doug. I know there was a lot of work. Yeah all right. let's move on. Well friends that is it for this week's barn burner of show. Hey you hate vaccinations. We'd love to hear from you because we want to yell at you send us an email at how to and how to heretic dot com or if you're an anti galactic safeness some kind don't bother calling us about it at nine zero three eight eight to nine three hundred four six hundred six. I'm also twitter heretic and always thinks where patrons who we will get back with next week and thanks to our dark lord cody layton frenzy show and thanks to all of you friends for tuning in by friends.

anton long dan oncle marquez anton levay church of saint doug segment lucian greaves richard moult david miot corey vendex joseph smith christos nazarene bay Greg rogers Hassen hiep Us
Pioneering Fracking Company Chesapeake Energy Goes Bust

Drilled

16:09 min | 1 year ago

Pioneering Fracking Company Chesapeake Energy Goes Bust

"ESOTIQUE energy says it is filing for Chapter Eleven Bankruptcy Protection Chesapeake of course, the energy giant based out of Oklahoma City. One of the fracking pioneers, the company wants employing about thirteen thousand people across all its businesses now down to nineteen hundred with thirteen hundred. Chesapeake Energy the first big US fracking company has filed bankruptcy. Chesapeake was a pioneer in the US fracking industry, helping to turn the country into an exporter for the first time in decades in those early days, chesapeake was run by its larger than life co-founder. Aubrey mcclendon here. He is addressing Harvard students at the height of the shale boom over the last hundred and fifty years. You've known natural gas as good, but you haven't been sure about its abundance, and in fact from from my perspective, when I started this company one thousand, nine hundred nine thirty years old. I. Didn't know where the future of the industry is going certainly didn't know were were natural. Gas was headed. But. We founded our company on the idea that if we were to find our way in the world we had to look at. Geology and engineering from a different perspective than what the bigger companies were doing. We had to go look for unconventional reservoirs. The conventional reservoirs were basically locked up by the Exxon's of the world and the larger independent. Companies and so my partner, and I who we have been partners since I, was twenty three on a private basis. We decided to go found this company with fifty thousand dollars and we had. Ten employees at the time. And the idea was. Let's go look. For natural gas in unconventional reservoirs, and at the time, that was mainly fractured carbonates I'm today. He sounds. Pretty Tame there, but McLennan's rap was that he could sell shale to anyone. Lining Clark Dairy and I'm in analyst with Ivanka the Institute for Energy Economics and financial analysis so I'll be mcclendon was kind of you. Know the quintessential. Shale booster he was somebody who, whether divorce, a personality, or because he was just a true believer, or he would just an incredibly good salesman. He'd got people to invest in his company. She'll wasn't an easy sell, or it turns out a goodbye for anyone that was true long before corona virus, head or oil and gas prices tanked. We've been covering Cova related. Environmental rollbacks and bailouts for fossil fuel companies with our Cova climate tracker and one sector that scored a lot of government gifts is the shale industry couple months ago? We talked about tax breaks, loans and credit. Credit extended to shale companies, throwing good money after bad and now here we are with the peak company that has benefited from Covid, related royalty cuts and tax breaks declaring bankruptcy anyway in a Lotta ways, the story of peak is the story of American shale gas. We're going to get into that story after this message from today's sponsor, I made me Westervelt end. This is drilled. Okay, so you're worried about the climate crisis and pissed off about the fossil fuel industries dishonest destructive behavior over decades yet. If you have a retirement savings account, you're probably invested in those companies, almost all major mutual funds and t APPs invest in fossil fuel companies, but it is actually possible to save for your future without supporting the most environmentally reckless companies on earth. Green Century is the first family of fossil fuel, free, responsible and Versu- fide mutual funds in the US for nearly thirty years. They've helped. People align their investments with their values. Green Century also houses an award-winning shareholder advocacy program that directly presses dozens of companies every year to improve their sustainability practices. Green Century is the only mutual fund company in the US wholly owned by environmental and public health nonprofits and one hundred percent of the prophets burned after the green century funds, fees, and expenses belong to those on profits. You can learn more on green century DOT com. Now back to the show. Got People to invest in his company when he was never ever able to produce. Positive free cash flow. He's never actually able to squeeze money out of the is very good at producing gas, but not terrible at producing prophets, and that's something that I think is actually been emblematic of the shale industry as a whole that it's an industry that's been phenomenally successful at producing oil and gas, but has been terrible at producing cash. That's Clark. Clark Williams dairy again. He's run all kinds of numbers on chesapeake. None of them good. We Company essentially burned through about forty one billion dollars of cash that is producing negative free cash flows of forty one billion dollars, and what that means is that this is a company that spent forty one billion dollars more on drilling on getting access to underground gas reserves. End All the things going to running a shell assistant forty one billion dollars more than it actually generated by selling gas and oil. It has racked up in billion dollars worth of debt. At the end of twenty twenty, who had about nine billion dollars worth of long-term debt that was a you know was was to get paid off soon, but the the problem for a company like this is. How do you pay off your debt when you're unable to produce positive, free casual, it's just not possible. You can't do it and if you are consistently year after year after year producing negative free cash flow. There's no way for you to pay down your debt in some. Hey says there's no even no way for you to service your debt. That was paid your interest payments, but in the case of Chesapeake. What has become abundantly clear over the past two years is this is a company that has new viable prospect for producing free cash flow, and as a result has no Bible prospects for actually paying down its debt, and that's what really forces a bankruptcy right? Before it went bankrupt of course, Chesapeake gave out more than twenty million dollars to its executives in bonuses again. This is a company that benefited from covert relief just a couple of months ago, companies currency Yo. Robert Douglas lawler blamed his predecessor for overspending. He claims that caused the bulk of Chesapeake debt on top of buying up every land lease. He could get. Get his hands on mcclendon did have a secret Wayne, cave. He refused to agree to budgets. And apparently he had everyone flying around on chartered jets, but we don't really know if that was the entire problem, because mcclendon isn't around to defend himself, I want to report that earlier today at nine twelve am. The Oklahoma City Police Department responded to fatality accident involving Mr Aubrey mcclendon in two thousand thirteen shortly after he was ousted from chesapeake and the morning, after he was indicted for allegedly rigging oil and gas leases, mcclendon drove his car into a wall speeding along Oklahoma highway by that point, Chesapeake had also brought a. A civil case against its founder, accusing mcclendon of stealing trade secrets to go start his next venture, American energy partners, also around this time came out that Chesapeake had given some twenty million dollars, plus to the Sierra Club which had helped it to perpetuate the ridge fuel narrative around natural gas, the idea that to install renewable energy at scale. You need something like natural gas to help with the intermittent city of renewables. It helped that natural gas is a much lower carbon fuel, and no one wanted to talk about methane emissions. At the time. There were people who are agree with the policy because they think the Sierra. Sierra clubs role should dust to oppose anything that has any environmental consequences. They don't think our role should be to say okay. Here's where we think we should get our energy. We see it is the cleanest of the fossil fuels. That story is still very much with us today you might remember hearing some of the Democratic primary candidates talking about it. In the recent debates, all these scandals surrounding mcclendon make him an easy scapegoat for Chesapeake financial lows but greg. Rogers, who specializes in climate, change and other liability accounting for the energy industry says Chesapeake financial situation is pretty typical for the shale industry as a whole. The fracking just has not produced return on capital inaccessible the cost of capital since its inception that makes it a bad pick for an industry to bail out at least financially Rogers says there are other factors at play. I would imagine that there would be a lot of political pressure and and in the. Some inclination by US politicians to support the domestic gas industry, and especially when you tie that back into concerns about national security, so I I think the proposition that that the Saudis and the and the Russians are going to provide the oil energy needed by the world as we phase out, the industry is not very appealing to US politicians and so again breezy to bail out the industry. The question is can they afford it? The answer amid an ongoing pandemic and an economic downturn Shir to worsen is now not really it's hard to think of any other industry that's been bailed out in spite of performing badly aside from. From maybe the banks in two thousand eight Clark. Williams dairy explains that in a way. That's kind of what's happening here, too. So bankruptcy is not a process where a company just blows up dissolves bankruptcies a process for telling creditors that they're not going to get paid. It's essentially like a process where the Phoenix dies. It's its creditors are told that they're not going to get their money back. The shareholders are completely wiped out, but the company rises from the ashes, and still has access to its ads is assets, and so forth in just really reborn with the new capital structure, and all the old investors are sad. But the but the company itself had some levels from a is. Re emerges from bankruptcy as a new company with cleaner balance sheet. Even with that restructuring Williams dairy says the company may or may not make money okay so I. WanNa ask you about The fact that you know Chesapeake is one of several shale deeply indebted shell companies that did receive some funding through the cares act. And whether or not like I don't know to me. It sort of seems like. One of of what I think will be several examples of of the government sort of throwing good money after bad to try to save companies that are so. Deeply problematic financially than. A one time loan is not going to fix it. So yeah I'm curious to hear your take on that. Yeah well, that's. Exactly. Right I mean so like just the concept of a bail out when people talk about bailouts, I used to his younger I did a lot of canoeing. The bailout is you know is literally got a boat. That is fine. That is solid. That doesn't have any problems with with the you know. Is No to crack is knows the. End You just need to. Toss water out of the boat and the boat's able to. Go on. Sailing on your, so it's like your bailout is literally like you're you're you're you're? The boat is fine, and you're just taking water and the canoe in. To allow the A. Sort of continued operate. But the problem with. The shale industry is that there's a there's a hole in the hull. This is not a boat that just needs a little bailout. It's both maybe already sunk, and so when you bailing out a both that's already act together. You know create a boat that can still continue to operate. It's it's it's this founder is done right? So so a lot of the talk about sort of the government bailout while were really is going on is not so much. Technically, it doesn't feel to me like it's a bailout. What it is, it's a handout to the investors, so it's it's something that maybe allows the investors to recoup a little bit in. This is mostly the creditors to recoup a little bit of the money that these companies owed. So like if you give that, you give a few hundred million dollars to accompany like Chesapeake I dunno act. How how much is actually got? Either Chesapeake continues to burn through that money. Because as business model is fundamentally broken. Or else it's as some of that money and that money can get can go back to the hedge funds and other people who swooped in Bod Chesapeake debt. So it's you know the the structure of some of the bailouts that have been proposed for the oil and gas industry, and some of the have actually been happening for the oil and gas companies. The structure is really designed to benefit investors not so much to fix the broken shale industry business model is just to reward investors who made bad bad song shell companies and allow them to get a little bit more of their money back a bankruptcy process. Really what is it winds up being a pass through from the US Treasury. Street to kneel the hedge funds or other investors, right own Jessica dead, so instead of supporting working Americans or investing in an energy transition because that would be political, the government is bailing out failing companies to get some money into the pockets of Hedge Fund. The guys chesapeake will continue operating with seven million dollars of its debt wiped clean by Franklin resources a holding company. We'll see how long that lasts. That's it for this time. Thanks for tuning in. We will have another episode for you this Friday, and then I swear. We really are going to take a little bit of a break to produce the next investigated season. Look out for that in July and in the meantime you can keep tabs with us at drilled news dot Com and our patron. If you're not a member yet, please consider signing up. We will be dropping episodes of the next season there early and add free as well as some bonus content over the next couple months. We'll drop a link to that in the notes. Thanks for listening and we'll see next time.

Chesapeake Mr Aubrey mcclendon US Chesapeake Energy Clark Williams Cova Chesapeake Sierra Club Exxon Harvard ESOTIQUE energy Oklahoma City founder US Treasury fossil fuel industries
The Nat Coombs Show: Edge Rush #8

The Nat Coombs Show

47:03 min | 7 months ago

The Nat Coombs Show: Edge Rush #8

"Hello and welcome to the net cream. Show edge rush on. Espn association with fred that combs ali thornton in the house aka producer. O- aka producer ollie aka pro of morning names to the mix before twenty. Twenty is done. No i don't think so. And i just hope. It doesn't become anything associated with the eagles performance last week. That's the thing that i wanted to avoid more than anything. You know that was a big deep melancholic side and not understand why out of i thought i just wanted to clarify straight off the bat. We can end this year on. A high on negative at t pessimism excise. I won't positively but let's deal with the elephant in the room. Australia aca streak is over. Had to happen. I mean it had to happen to be the cleveland browns. As we expected the new york jets. I mean it's the perfect storm the two teams that you just knew irrespective of the covert implications. I should say the receivers going out anything else. You just knew the moment we suggested. It was impossible for the jets to beat the browns. They were gonna lose. I mean recording on wednesday some considering what happened As the week progressed the. Yeah i mean one. Three decided to try and make it five in a row on a game between the cleveland. Browns and neil jets got all of logic should have stayed away from that but it did a non honestly would it through credit. Maybe for the rest of my life. We'll find a way through. We'll find a way through. This is what you need. Straight back struck down saddle exactly right straight spoken about one four fake teasing me like this. I guess that wants to keep up with the eagles. I mean i even brought this up yet. Eagles had out the open with that probably had the full raring to go like that would have been the crux of the show a cool day. All these be that. That's what i call the show. This is how i dedicate. I am dedicated. Your of course just at remind our listeners. All through that we give in the moment. We stopped recording the edge. Rusher only straight into he's he's stats as we know pages and pages of data everywhere all through the week. Until the next ed rush. I'm not as committed as diligent as as all but nevertheless in the last week Year christmas and other things. But i i've been so busy getting ready for the show. And all the all the nc show pudge the i hadn't hadn't even considered the full. So oh well you know what we go half an hour so right to let me have a think as we go along. I hate you up with a four year at the end. Of course the the cowboys come and go to get and that's why we're going to go. I first game this week. Dallas new york giants both teams. Of course still a very much in the mix for the nfc east and therefore the playoffs. But that's entirely dependent on washington. They have the control of eastern their hands. That's going to be the sunday night again. These guys kicking off earlier on so that both needs a win to have any chance of making the an intriguing match-up paul what the line saying. Yeah it is an intriguing match-up but i think due to the recent resurgence of the red rocket. The line is actually opened his pick him but the line moved out to three fidelity in favor of ballots. Back to two and a half and the over under forty four and a half cowboys offenses averaging four touchdowns per game since week. That's eight nap Madness they would wants three in maryland and they're still in contention for the playoffs. That makes absolutely no sense but then again it is twenty twenty and the jets did beat the browns. So anything is possible. Anything's post now. Buying into it. At am i buying into it. Mike calls review put out in the week said that dole dolphins made a great case. Get backup backup job next year. And i'm not asking us agreeing. Who really was. He wanted me these days. Go to backup job now. I think we were talking about the. Yeah quarterbacks the teams in that twenty five to thirty t- region that might bancard a veteran starter again developmental projects. i think. That's maybe where costumes go either way yet. Dealt stepped in effectively since since stock went down his coalition stunning. What did you just give us. The study shows a game since week. The yeah like so last week. I mean we weren't wrong that when we were talking about last week's potent me and you could have done a better job in the secondary for the philadelphia. Eagles advised it fat. I mean the karma. Which player was which corner. It was but he appreciated that out. Two hundred yards during that game. I'm pretty sure i could've done better than that. Honestly sure i could have done better than that. Because owners take the honors nicknamed modern literally handed them full touchdown gonna to play and then against the bengals the week before only one touchdown came through three week teams fishermen certainly in the in the fourteen hundred case because of injury but nevertheless point taken but then so the giants right i mean and this is the giants team is probably gonna roll the dice with danny dimes. Whose fitnesses shot. He can't run the ball. That caesar that is. Us p. right that's his edge and no gag central when he when he stumbled shy touchdown but as osama goshawk full optimistic kind of guy and i look at that brilliant run but he made to get to get to the point where he fell over. He's clearly a jill threat quarterback that is underrated underestimates. So i think in that respect you take that edge of his game away and they in trouble. The giants. I guess will as a result. Lean on the run and they're up against the twenty four run defense in the nfl. So you can run on the cowboys. And i think that they might make some hay that i the fact that line's gone under three. Under the the key number leading cowboys i do agree completely the cowboys giants for that matter. Much like both the browns or the jets. We should probably stay clear off every every single week. But you know the the cowboys they want me to be against you. I've been on them like the light the over there and they they comfortably handled last time out. I had been rallying for raw on this cowboys. Side stacking up points. And i see no reason why they won't do that again. Against the giants so the question is can the giants get anything. Going offensively with a banged up danny dimes and collectively a limited offensively. I think they can that the play. I like here is the over because i think that is so put up. Poison defense will be able to completely shut out the giants. So i like the cowboys modest to and off. It stays under three a look about but what i like. Moore's the over. Yeah this is an interesting one. Purely based the fact that it's the league's favor over team in the cowboys they have gone five and one to the ova in that. Six games. the league's favor under team in the last ten games the new york giants nine of them have gone on but that's largely because they've only scored more than twenty three points two times that season Which is absolutely incredible star and a demonstration of how they have been on offense but considering sending contest the playoffs. And maybe that's credit to that defense. I think is going to be one of those. Can you really have ten out of eleven games. Go on so. I actually would like to see wayne. Gelman run the ball all over the dallas cowboys defense. They really can't stop that something. That's a great show up can have a big day for them Number four foot hoffy. Say that's that's low a. seeming data. I it's not ridiculous to dallas are gonna be able to put up twenty eight right like you know. I think that's twenty four to twenty eight region that the giants going to be able to do enough to get it over. I think i would be surprised if this came in on a really would like the over iceberg reload field goals. That's maybe there's appropriate daffy you all somewhere over under field goals. They were gonna be. Yeah that's true. I guess it's going to look at the red zone. Inefficiency the johnson particular turnovers as well. I mean what my point was going against. The cowboys was the fact that the reason that scored seventy points in recent weeks was because of the positions were taking over the bull. Thanks to ton of isn't good special teams type. You can easily see daniel jones. Without being able to run the ball escape the puck as a completely different cool bike and when he becomes under pressure from the lots of democracy lawrence mean realistically. There's a high chance he turns the ball over so as much as i'm really struggling to get behind. The resurgence of the red rocket is everyone's cooling it. It's still say benefiting massively of the enact capabilities on his opposition. I really like your adequate in this particular game. Particularly alliteration opened up with a relation to the red rocket. It was cpap stuff so for that reason alone. Even more confident of of the cowboys go in big. So yeah whoa. So i'm saying hey cowboys minus two an off the numbers come down three is. We always talk about the keys. Play the number of the key number there so safe. The relatively speaking in the the half point shaved onto that. And the over yeah. I'm going to take that. I like that all right next up. Let's go cleveland pittsburgh so much on the line here of course for the browns. A fair amount of interest in what the steelers are planning to do. We know for a fact. That ben roethlisberger isn't gonna start. We also suspect there will be other names. Juju is being touted as well so that the tricky thing hits navigate is just how depleted the steelers are gonna be and how much of an edge that gives the cleveland browns and if it gives them enough edge because they're heavy favorites aren't they. Yeah they all. The line actually opened at mon one in favor of the pittsburgh steelers bogus. They wrapped up the afc north which that moved the line to monitor six and a half in favor of the browns but then as soon as news by mason rudolph with announce john move now to minus ten and a half. And that's why it has stayed even ten and a half point favorites. The at forty two is also likely to the fact that mason rudolph stocks gonna quarterback. This is going to be one where i think a lotta people will be watching not necessary to see what the cleveland browns do. But just to see what happens between mason rudolph and myles garrett right. I mean that's a great point. I think enough people necessarily king basis the match up. Of course were kicked off and it just jump back a moment on the line shift right so you. So you're saying that. The browns favored initially by touch donald thereabouts. Because the suspicion the expectation. I should say would the status would be resting sauces and then when it was officially announced this bugger was gonna sit. That dropped further three points. And yeah okay. That makes that makes sense. Yeah i mean the mason rudolph situations interesting not not. Just because of the cleveland reboot and the myles garrett factor as well the other thing that's interesting about mason rudolph that drew didn't pick who is a very sharp bind in both senses of the word when it comes to. Nfl was making this point. That got all on the line this week because as insect was arguing if he comes into this game having been at the organization for this long and doesn't demonstrate capable grasp of the playbook and of the offense they going to be looking at the radio to go. it's not necessarily a replacement of succession plan for for this. But as a as a capable backup right if he comes in and haskins style has no idea. What's going on with the offense. Then that's a problem now. I guess that that is a slightly loaded deck for him. Because if juju and other starters playing sutton receiving corps right getting limited reps that that you know baker versus the jets is is going to make his life a lot more difficult that leads me quite conveniently to to the ground right because that was i. Think the thing that baffled us in particular for the browns against the jets how they couldn't establish the the ground game and there are a lot of reasons for that i think but particularly their line. So jedrick willison wyatt. Hello both out in. that game. Should both be back hit for the browns right so i think they're going to have much more success. Cleveland with that grant gave. the question is will pittsburgh. Pittsburgh numbers against the colts were astonishing or had to go back because we were doing the game on our radio show right and it was kind of flying by. Let's go back and look at the look at the game again. Studied the box score bit more because we had a sense. This was happening. But james conner five carries twenty odds. Benny snell six carries zero yards. I mean it's extraordinary. So putting all this together will the stephen as they root in with some some maybe many of the leading receivers limited or completely out will they try and establish the ground game and would they feel. They need to do that because they go into the playoffs. With an anemic ground games though we gave connor now wraps and just try and get something going at some kind of momentum going and actually that takes the of rudolph a bit and conversely will the browns be able to kickstart we know is one of the best in the nfl. now they've got the line back in formation which was a big big hindrance for them not just the receivers being august the jets but the line banged up as well. I think one of the most interesting points going into the game. We'll be saying. What time does his offensive line. Play massive factor in whether or not they can establish the ground game purely based on the fact that they go quite an old line. Which i mean would and juice didn't really have a bye week. This is the problem. With the cbs's i know i told him tomlin's coming up before the game we're gonna pay for it to win that we would eddie game. We have mason rudolph the full support. He needs to go out and beat the browns but at the same time. We haven't really had a boy week and you've seen the way they performed over a good comeback last week but the pro three weeks was really struggling look tired. They looked allied as a team. They looked exhausted. You would yank. The moment is going to use this as an opportunity to rest especially some of the older players but at the same time the one thing i do like and i completely agree with the point. You make his mason. Rudolph literally has everything to prove here. Everything is on the line for mason. Rudolph and i don't think he's necessarily as bad as a people thing. Great he is. He was five in three to stop the completed. Sixty of his policies through thirteen touchdowns nine interceptions obey but four of them. Were in that browns game where you completely fell apart. And he did lose his job to dot com jays. Which i don't think anyone that. Cv sh but at the same time like utah. Coaches is going to be presenting address next next season. Just yeah. I've already put in the for him. But he's sends incredibly expensive by a lot of people want him on the fact where we're putting in bed. It's we're working at keeps yawkey priced that. Yeah yeah the one thing that we love in the nfl. one thing. I think american sports love more than anything is motivation and using that motivation to perform better. I mean tom brady lived off air. I'm sure he's utilizing me saying they call him play past eight thirty pm because that's his bedtime and he said that's why i'm leading the bucks to the super bowl this year. He played that time guys. Put that but that british producer clip again. What he's what he's pushing. It gets an extra five bench presses out play just by to that exactly exactly but then rudolph. i mean. he's in my opinion now. I'm not sure if he will be thinking this. Because i mean it's quite damaging but it's how he's basically fine for his legacy if he doesn't come out. He can either be remembered as the gog overhead by models with a helmet. All the guy who made it nineteen years in a row. The browns made the playoffs. Yeah right it's a great point. It's a great point and cements is short term future anyway for sure. And as you say rewrites the perspective on him fair bit the browns will get in his head. No doubt about that. Oh yeah for sure. Really of smashed shuki on it around that light. I can tell you that right now. I am not sure about whether we should go near this. Because of the question with the steelers. How many stars. If any on both sides of the bull they're going to be playing. At what point do they get. Yanked today really. Can we've talked about the wider playoff picture and this idea and we got into this on the pod with With ban isaacs. That's a week seventeen preview. pardon a pre show. We might touch on it with mike as well actually earlier in the week. This idea that if you haven't got the number one seed locked in or rather there's nothing to play for so in the afc for example that. Hey what do you care about week. Seventeen well that argument doesn't necessarily stop a tool because whilst you don't necessarily know what seating are the teams are going to have a nephew who your opponent is going to be. You want to have the highest possible for home field advantage. Should the chiefs get knocked off. You know in the in the nfc if it's if it's the pack is similarly right so there's a. There's a lot of play for here. This idea that you're just gonna find it in agree totally with what you're saying with the aging roster. Suddenly someone like brought this bug it needs needs the rest right but it doesn't necessarily stands to reason that he's going to take off the gas tomlin across the board not least as well. There is the danger that if you do that particularly with the steelers who were lights out. Good in the second half against the colts but in the first half old the colt scored on four that first seven possessions. I mean they were terrible. We watching that game. We're doing that game and it was one of the worst performances we've seen. I think this season from a playoff contender. The is in the off the back of three straight losses right so they far from fixed so i wonder whether tomlin will look at this and think okay. I've got to pick my poison hair and and maybe split the difference wrestles and plays that. I know need the break but actually these guys and this is where i go back to the ground. We've got to try and get some kind of run game going. Use this game two to attempt to do that so they could be completely vanilla but equally. I'm not convinced that the the number is low enough the us to have confidence that the the browns are going to take care of business. I think the play for me here again is the over more than more than either. The browns will the steelers with the points right. I think the over is tempting. I think the browns will. Obviously they need to win. They will force the issue. I think they'll be able to put up points honesty. Let's not forget whether minke in the others arresting the cult's ronald over. Though i mean score racked points in in the first half so y- and the flip side of this of course is whether the browns were really unfairly by the nfl because there they were forced to play the game without any of their receivers. That defense was terrible against that. The jets for for the most part of this is the jets. Were taking care of business against them. So i think they were going to be points on bison and i'm leaning towards the over here yeah. I think that's a nice place to be honest. I think as we said with mason rudolph often kill keen to prove a point. And i think this will give the students opportunity to score low points. And i also don't see him resting too many of the wide receivers purely based on the fact. I do think. Tillman does want to win this game. The quite young group among receivers and they also need reps and not playing well and you would say any momentum. They gained last week in the second. Half of the colts. You do not want to lose this week. Especially for those receivers have been talking. Booze left right and center so i do think the decent play and not the thing i would say it would be an interesting. One is audited in similar with the giants. Actually be interested to tease the giants and the steelers. Just give them a couple more points. Because i do think that both these games are going to be relatively close. But i think the lines a to I just don't think i'm competent. Either the lines from either the teams bobby. We'll tend to go stay. More tends go giants if you gave to the seven points. The johnson seventeen points to the status. We gotta walk on our team three teases. I like a lot. yeah. I i think we've got something that we should make notes new year's resolution paps. Oh we should look at that for for the twenty one season improve provide teasing big on him so yeah we should look at that moore alright like that so next up final three games where king and then we've got some portraits of course remove crop. Oh and arrack of the week where we get back on track. We hope a best packers so another game with a huge amount to play for for both teams. The pack is haven't looked in the number one seed. Of course they need to win to secure that if they don't then will the saints. Even the seahawks could sneak in through the back door the situation. Of course they going to win to make the playoffs so law state kiss so we expect unlike the steelers both teams to be going full. Tilt i guess the question is all what point if a tool to the packers take off the gas either if they're winning the game comfortably or conversely what time actually look at the timing of this with the with this game kicking off all nine twenty five so i guess what if you know. Is it going to be one of those things that e where do we think is the danger here that the packers are not going to be at full tilt for four quarters. Is there a danger. I don't think there is purely based out of this package versus baz. I think this is the game of the week. I think you've go green bay going for the nfc's number one seed in chicago controlling. Its own destiny for a wild card. Slot is going to be more in this game and i think that a lot of motivation for both teams on each side of the boom purely think the baz will want to rectify especially what happened earlier in the year and i think the packers the packers are the most popular team in football right now. I think there's no question about that. They school more points than anyone else. In the league pro. Football focus has aaron rodgers and davante adams as the highest greater quarterback and the highest grade at wide receiver. Which is the first time that's happened since two thousand. Can you remember who. Those plasma brady moss. I guess not really in two thousand. Seven season and it wasn't brady moss. No they did this back to back these too close so chosen six two thousand seven a matting and marvin harrison roggio. Where'd you move. That's gonna be one of the it's going to be one of the exactly but still considering they're doing the first time in thirteen years just demonstrates how incredible these to be and i don't want to say the pace down against these team i think potentially if they get to the fourth quarter and they're up by twenty points you could see them slowing down and cover. Mike come in for the best but at the same time. It's going to have to be largely because i don't think the packers the number one seed is show crushes this year. But i don't think anyone would want to take a risk and rojas is also now the front runner for the mvp and other thing he'll want to take any risk losing that and other you'll happily go off this bad teams. Yeah considering. it's it's a rivalry game. I don't see that being the potential of the pack slowing down because he caring about the the guy. If the say the seahawks and the saints losing. I also don't see the seahawks over the saints losing so i think that going to. Yeah yeah that'd be taken to the y. Just to recap as well. The seahawks have the forty nine. Is the saints have the panthers the as you say both eminently winnable games for them with. What's on the line for them. Buses their opponents. I you make some great points. And i think the collective point with regards to aaron rodgers this season the consistent narrative with aaron rodgers. This season has been proving a point. We knew it was going to happen pretty much. The moment jordan love drafted all of that fallout. We talked about on the show at the time. It was no doubt about it which ever way. He cuts it rationalize. It justify you're gonna look at the future hair teams on even with a great aaron rodgers on about the individual there about the collective all of these different stories that we heard it was on deny ably disown aaron and rogers and archaelogical. If it is yes. He got to build a franchise. You've got to think about the future. You gotta stay competitive. But you've also got to win super bowls right and this is a once in a generation style quarterback you all short stacked at receiver. This is an unbelievably rich. Receive a clause. Why you doing this now. It doesn't make any sense. Okay if you're not if you're gonna go for jordan love and not after receiver make a play for receive which of course if you remember. They scrambled to try do before. The deadline will fuller and and couldn't do that. And that was very unpackaged because we spoke about at the time that not that likes to deal in that way which to me makes really underlines the fact that they realized they made a mistake and russia's from that moment if he didn't need the motivation anyway was locked in for a season like this. It was just in the stars that he was going to be playing like this. Now as you say having to adams in the form of his life and he has already said a high individually but he is playing lightsout as well and you look at how often out of russia's going to adams competitive with other receivers made that pays a magical handed that is accentuating that this situation nevertheless roaches unbelievably motivated. Going into this game. this will be. I think the exclamation point on the regular season they gonna blaze into a leader. I think buster screen jaylon johnson out for the bears in the secondary. I think the packers are gonna call them up. I think they're going to call them up now. The reason i asked about whether they'll take off the gases result award about the back door cobb. But you've made a very logical case for why addicting they'll do that and not sitting in the run-up the school but i think they win this comfortably. Five and a half. I'm all over that for the packers played touchdowns for the packers. The best defense gave up three hundred ninety three yards. I actually think the best defensive coordinator chuck gonna considering. How much money that spending on that defense is under pressure whether ranked right now as defensive unit is simply not good enough and they were. Actually i mean glenn dog last week paws off posse get which is just. You wouldn't even dream of that happening last year or even the it before considering how strong they were so as the money going unsurprisingly and i think this is only gonna get stronger in favor of the pack is more and more as the week goes on the majority of bets. The majority of tickets are being cashed on the packers for the shot money. We guide savvy says this out. Dogs heads on the hugs. Not the only thing i can think of is is the shops are looking and thinking they'll do enough to get in front and there is the danger a backdoor cover here. I don't i don't see how the packers. I'm not buying this offensive resurgence trubisky on on on on our week. Seventeen preview paul. Ben is a say was on this week and he's a best fine as as many of our listeners will know it he is very interesting about the bass at the moment and about trubisky and really what has changed carlson as well. I think weighed in on this to the simplification essentially. That's the that's the top line. Narrative that they've just made things unbelievably simple for trubisky and you clearly. They're getting a ground game going as well which is helping and montgomery had a big game relative. Speaking against the packers lost time out as well. So i guess they'll look to do more of the same. That's i'm not saying it's going to be at thirty eight three blowout at the same time i would be. I could see the pack is getting into a to school here in the best not being able to get close so the one thing that i do see is playing. A factor in this is the dispatch defenses to talented continued to perform in the way that they have. So that's the one narrative. I would look to is to watch them the shot money's potentially coming on the beds and the one plan that they didn't have when they lost the packers earlier in the season with akeem hicks highs in bat line and allows robot quinn khalil mack. To do what they do even better. And i just think there is a motivation. Have gone is on the hot seat coming into this red tall. With a defensive game plan which will be about depression iron roaches food and throw earlier than he wants to start one angled that i see potentially favoring the bears and also the fact that the based the packers on greatest in iran dave montgomery averaging five yards a carry in recent weeks but at the same time mitch. Trubisky has not been part of the spotlight like this and no one was ready taking the bed seriously for good reasons and on hong see him handling. I don't think he's a quarterback. Take the best for what. I don't think might nike's the coach to the boastful forward. I still don't so that's within the packers win this game. But as you said. I the line lid hazy little bit scattered on. Maybe not i. Maybe they bring them down to two and a half and your business three thousand three team teeth bureau. I think it's a good argument. You make. I'd be an idiot if i was to dismiss the potential impact of kalliomaeki mixed heavyweight pleasant lick. It's it's a strong front seven. We know that but they are banged up in the secondary say and at is a good offensive line for the packers right. It's you know. I i get that. It's going to be a fascinating match up in the trenches actually agreed if they can put quite rightly rojas under pressure in terms of rhythm. Because we were. I guess alluding to this earlier on adams is being the standard receiver. He was wheeled in a number of others fatty consistently effectively. For much of the season. There are question marks about most of the rest of the receiving corps to to to liz on injury prime dot scott lang parental drops. The so. i understand if they can take out that the significance of that threat to a degree which she's forcing rogers to era. We can we see how many games this season is roaches. We've heard he's laid out to eleven or twelve different receivers and greg rogers was taking the mickey out of that. Start on our radio show a few weeks ago but i think is valid in this context when you look at the Almost rojas proving a point that. Hey okay. I'm going to adams a lot. He's my stat guy but i can it to whoever you put out there for me. You should have got somebody else's while it gets this boy. And i think the motivation. I could see that look in. Rogers is key. We talked about this last week and talk about it regularly with the team. Titans yeah if they go behind the april early doors problem that does not assets. And and i see sunny. That's true with the bad. But i see that particular nerve with the team on the packers. If they as they did at the start of last week's game i think russia's wet five five they stored into a lead and never looked back. I see a similar trajectory. Hey i just started in. The packers are going to be at the races. So i'm big on the pack. The bags gonna be at the races. I'm gonna pick on the pack. I'm out the points. There is what. I'll not reached each the over under and as he fancy that off actually potentially be leading towards beyond. If i was going to go with that you know. I back on top the game of the week probably more this one stand alone with maybe red zone on in the background. No one wants to be wanting to not going to score a touchdown going to be cheering for field goals on the last day of the full slate season. You can cheering for field. Goals in the data steel giants game. Right because he's going to be eleven of them so Like the over lecturing. The can i leave radio early to be able to sit down and watch this With cold bit get home. In time i can yukon fair enough. What is what is on for the last week. Twenty minutes asking questions. It's the final week of the regular season and there's plenty on the line. Bet fred have moneyline odds all games this sunday. And don't miss their price boost loss with a boosted montgomery chop and kelsey all to school two three two one check out the fred apo bedford social channels on sunday to see who they pick this week. Price bruce available for a limited time only maximum states vary eighteen plus gambler dot org please gamble responsibly. Appropriate leaned perfectly. Martha's probe about aaron rodgers saying that he will start to anyone. Because i the first one. That's three this week. We're going with anytime. Touchdown scored again off my success. Las week with mike. Evans and austin at clarke. So i thought i would stick with it. I am a superstitious man. I'm starting with robot tony. To score a touchdown for the green bay packers not is. I think dylan's adams oviously had announced last week but prior to that robot. Tony had a fun game touchdown streak and that did come to an against the titans but i think that was big ball. Sang devante genetic. This is your night. It's on the big stage in the snow. You go out there and you demonstrate why you all the best receivers when it comes back to the bags when you're gonna have all the attention from the secondary in the chicago. Backfield is going to be the one who profits off that and he loves playing against the bears loss on they paid sixty seven yards for him and a school has given up. The third. most touchdowns two ends is big bulb to fund the ends on this. I love. i've all across big bob of the zone this week. get instantly. We didn't give you enough credit. I think you gave yourself credit which is but but yet you appropriate slide last week right. Yeah that ended should to touchdown thing. Mike evans had an absolute auto archie. Scored i think the only touchdown for the charges in that field goal battle against the denver broncos. That was yeah. That was great. I think those two. I do like when i'm going with these games going off tonight. Haven't necessarily scored in the week before. Because i think usually that takes away some of the attention all the next week. So i do like that but then my next one is purely based of the motivation. They he has going into sunday. Justin jefferson to score a touchdown against the detroit. Lions for the minnesota vikings. It's one of the stars of the season that going against one of the worst defenses in the nfl. And i know seventeen known has anything to play for in this game but hold on a second. Justin jefferson has everything's playful. He has a challenge offensive rookie of the year something on his mantelpiece for the rest of his life. Stop the everyone that comes under if he becomes a pundit off. The retired in the vikings never do anything. He was still have offensive for trivia underneath his name every time he speaks address podcast. It's time he'll still give the offensive rookie of the adjusted. Jephson joins us on the edge. Show we can't go to the net. Cou shut drudge dot com. You can produce that not. Maybe thanks exactly. Yeah he needs. I ain't justin. Jefferson is going to have an actually day. he may need a big performance from the chiefs. Backups to stop justin hubbard. Who is the current front. Run out the offensive rookie of the year. But jackson will want every target. He won't every catch inch. And why wouldn't theline and co. Let him go nothing to play for the rookie. This weekend he should entertain. I think he's going to go for seventeen thousand yards and seven touchdowns this agreed with everything up to the last point she the ultimate point as well dealer and say that they got scoring. They say that. But i think the the the race card enough money he choked touchdown hundred hundred grand scores me. Yeah of course the same time. That would be selfish. I will lose. respect item. Feeling if he if there's a pull up in the jefferson athletic of both author and feeling goes next. Respect from this is justin jackson's day. This is the trump to cement was being an incredible rookie season for the guy. And i think he is to go out there and do that and do you know what helps the detroit. Lions suck do side. Sorry american lives fans everywhere. Third one the trustee faithful going into week seventeen were entity that we know that anyone can play. You could play for. We know with arresting. That's going to go on you. Could play should play play. Play not sure what position every you should play corner receiver. We beat three this staff at least ten yards what some of the tweets and the death of you actually tweet. The day took you about mark. Brunell there was a threat going on on twitter. Aw about random shirts. I think the nfl the vintage nfl crew. Or maybe you can pushed out like three around shot. So i gave shots out to all joey harrington shop owners which is an old school old. Old school is out there from back. I think even in the channel five days when we tried any anybody. That could spot joey harrington show of any kind out at wembley gave monday. Had to set into this show shot joe harrington faithful and started and somebody said i've burnell show which isn't particularly that strange because was very accomplished quote about but you know what it reminded me of pro. You know what it reminded me of the way before. That stitch-up job in miami. Almost a year ago with a on a lucky i did for. Espn a similar thing with mark brunell burnell keita. Mccaw lead the receiving clus. That was offensive. Line is well. I think it might even be play defense alone. I had clogged yet. That was that was the funniest bit there. The was the facility. But be a needs to speak to tom and the crew. Espn to dig out that film. Because i'm going to show you some of that tape. That tape with me and mark brunell just to just to settle settling scores on that front just offset against the los. Keep but more importantly you'll love this. This is the received class abassi had. Jackie was legends. Right and i did a session with each right and the receiving one said they were maybe thirty catches right when thousand nine out of thirty. Which one do you think made the are you kidding. Lobbyists bring it will be best provided focus your as just sensational out on the exact same thing but you should've called say article. That's what i tell myself. Now that's what myself now. He knows. I'm still thinking about that. Los que la session still thinking about throwing a toaster. That's how you just joel song you just beside you. Just be better. Scientists twenty twenty two. We're on we are special. Do like am combine yet. Mr combine up for that. I taught junk folk. We agreed to do that. I can't jump. We'd be selective combine. beat your. This is the forty everything else. You'll be the you definitely will have. I called celebration. I'm getting squash squash player. This is gold producer owes. It gets goes plan. That's all taking the week. We go with the other person who is gonna catch. People's not is more countries. I'm going week. Seventeen everything's up in the air. You don't know what's going to happen to the old trusty faithful and titans playing against the bengals and the ravens primary target mall. Congress should have an absolutely massive game. He had a slow start to the season. One of his bright points was the week fog matchup against the bengals that he caught six of nine passes for fifty six yards and a touchdown during the loss few weeks. He's consistently those kinds of numbers. And i don't think it's any coincidence that the baltimore offense is purring. When lama is finding his favorite target regularly to suck at guarding titans. It's a fact afterwards. Every week they suck it and know even week. Seventeen mildness will change. that's just so teed up for. I can't believe how well the bengals have played bark address. Today they really have okay. I love that three bats and as we said all is on a roll with them so get stuck in that speech on a row as we said we were gone for five straight from ford arose with iraq of the week. The browns browns dust last week. We'll get back on track. Three teams straight up starting with the pack as well. We've talked about that game. I think pretty cult brands suddenly put arguments across. I think going to cover. So i certainly gonna win straight up. Packers for me is the first one. Yeah new orleans is our second one going into this now on following all very very trustworthy colleague. Mont carlson todos and all week sixteen review code which is great. Go check out that he thinks the saints of the best team in the nfc. And even without michael thomas. He rates them very highly. And i don't see account panthers scoring any points on this defense. they go. no mccaffrey. No might that puts a lot of pressure on teddy bridgewater against one of the best defense in football. There's just no chong's that they pop odds Above sort of say twenty points. And i think drew brees is getting set for the playoffs this week and i also think the people you know what i say. Now buy low sell high carolina people thinking that better than they all purely based win against washington last week a more he managed to get the defense but no not teddy. Didn't win that game for the nas week. Dwayne haskins one. That came last week and we own. You know which team is taking a look apparent dwayne haskins carolina. Yeah how about them. Apples yet dwayne haskins potentially go into carolina auditing. That's a good move. But i do think is a good move. Is adding the new orleans. Saints to beat the carolina panthers for josh aca. I like that so the thirteen. Aca the tennessee. Titans heavy favorites against the texans. Not sure because the danger of week. Seventeen all arguments. We'd given about why this is one of the trickiest weeks of the year to pick ripped pretty much the trickiest week one. I'd suggest not sure they necessarily cover the titans. But i think they win relative easily against the texans deshaun watson is playing absolutely lights out and i don't care how many times i set this season. Unbelievable season for him but the titans as we talked about earlier. On a lockdown things laddis high seats they can keep that momentum rolling and they are going to take care of business i think against the texas. The against the concern is that defense which is clearly underperforming and is their weekly going into the playoffs. One other that with the mike. Vrabel coach team is a great opportunity for them to put down a marker that they are not as bad as people are suggesting and we talk a lot about offense need find a groove and finding confidence you talked about the steelers receivers for example that you need to get into some kind of get you mojo go and is he going into the playoffs. That defense as well. The titans have been beaten up recently defensively. It could be a statement game for them to build confidence in variable will king in on that and i think henry has another field they runs will over this poor texas run the so the titans will the way for me is three team. Aca take constrict up. Forget the points just money lines taking the satya taking the titans taking the packers to win. Best of luck with that. And i feel comfortable. We're going to get back in the groove with that and we've had a good season to boot right speaking a witch. Well that's the end of a regular season edge rusher. We're going to be back to the playoffs. Of course we're going to be dropping lots of playoff stairs call for that. We'd be able to definitely keep the profits rolling as well and some slight because we concentrate unless games. Of course maybe start looking at good stuff like first half over unders. More moola left fields. If they haven't really got into a huge amount creative now anyone the year creativity. Well things are going to wrap things up now and you're going get straight back to. How many have you got the same time. Just just spitting out data and spreadsheets at four or five different screens. It's just one actually because someone doesn't get another thing. I'm going to put down a new year's resolution. Let's get another computer. So he can even more diligent research happy. Bud we'll see you in a coupla days we will see our listeners Very soon with all week. Seventeen review show. Greg brady back in the house will help us unpick how it all went down. The top seven seeds will be sorted. The playoff picture will be clear. We'll be looking back at week. Seventeen sunday and looking ahead to the wild card round conflict the regular season has flown by like this but hey we are still got plenty left in tanker. We're going to be all across here on the net kucher all the coffee south happy but man.

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Best Of (Browns fire Jackson, Packers fumble, Garrett's night off)

Skip and Shannon: Undisputed

51:29 min | 2 years ago

Best Of (Browns fire Jackson, Packers fumble, Garrett's night off)

"Welcome to the disputed podcast. I'm your host, Jenny Taft. This podcast is a condensed version of today's episode of undisputed handpicked with the best segments and discussions skip, Shannon. Let's go. Hugh Jackson said last week that he would play a bigger role in the play calling. But it did not help yesterday. Cleveland is now on a three game losing streak after losing thirty three eighteen to the Steelers. Baker Mayfield threw two touchdown passes and an interception in the loss. Shannon. How much is Baker to blame with other? You. With other. You get a large of the blame. Just like he got a large portion of the credit when he came in at the half, and he turned it around and the jets, and then they wanna know the game. I think the end up being Baltimore. Everybody's give had pompoms Oni kicking had a middle-sized raw go. He got a lot of the credit. So he deserves a lot of the blame. Here's the thing since he's been the starter. They have eleven takeaways type of most of the NFL, but they only have twenty four twenty one points off those tornadoes. So in other words, he's getting opportunity even when he doesn't have even when the team scores, even when they give him extra possessions. He's not doing anything with those possessions. Now, I know skip, you know, probably has shown lead not tweaked his hamstring. They'd be better has you Jackson started him and opening date. They probably have a better record. That's neither here nor there at the end of the day. We are where we are. He deserves the blame. Did you? Did you see that performance yesterday skip balance? What am I supposed to do with that? You you proud of that you toll. I turn, you know, it's not your target. You keep telling me all Ginny, can you? So I'm a lot last year. Oh through forty three touchdown fix. Good to six. Right now. Eight and six. He need to go to Hans Crete. He needed throw heated thirty five without thought another pick over the next eight game. Do you see that happen? It's get by because I do not. And I got some good old. Glad I got some good strong. Listen. Though the day. But anyways beta apron, you told me he was accurate had the highest QBR for the last two years joke completing fifty eight percent now with the Ray the rules are set up. Now if a quarterback completes under six percent of his passes, eat, not they're good. He not very good better. So. Of the four rookie. He beat for this. He stayed. He d Jason gay you want to do. He's stayed open light Steve owns. Yeah. Your rights all your stuff heated. Good of they come into Hepburn opinion. That's really unnecessary. But anyway of the four Ricky quarterbacks did, you know, he's the only one that's completed less than fifty percent of its really all oughta rookie Rosen. Darnold and Allen Baker Mayfield. Who do you want right now who do you want who do you want, Shannon? You're on the hot seat. Oh, we'll get one and stick with it. You just blasted Sam darnold about two topics. Who he like take Baker Mayfield? I'm sticking that. You take soon as though. Six point six yards per attempt. That's the Fort Worth and NFL. So in other words, not only not pushing the ball down the field lights told me he could do. Not only careful gamble gambler. Like oxymoronic becomes gambling in and of itself. It's taken take it. But anyways, give guys complete list season for sit all doing checking the ball down. And I'm gonna give him and and who the blame supposed to Bill now. I know Hugh is going to get a lot of the blame. Because he's been there for three years. And it doesn't seem like this thing gonna turn around. And I don't know how much longer how much faith Jimmy has them in the front office is going to have in, Hugh, but Baker Mayfield deserve the lion's share of the blame. Because he gets lying share of the credit with things go whale. So the anchor Mayfield I saw at Oakland. Did he win the game? You win the game. It got rob gang. Gig, Amy Baker bound right back and beat Baltimore home and overtime throw into one Derek willies. Then quickly got hurt his lost for the season. And he's also throwing early in that game to shard. He gains who was his favorite receiver guy hung out with and he's gone for the season. And Tom Brady raving about Josh Gordon now, that's all I read about as Tom Brady loves him. Some Josh didn't he used to Cleveland? Yes. So could he be Derek? I mean could he be Baker mayfield's favorite target by now? And yeah, I think he could skew he's gone. So that's three receivers gone. Can you name the left tackle protecting? Baker mayfield's blindside for me. Nope. You can't because his name is Desmond Harrison he's out of west Georgia undrafted doesn't Creel. Yes. In the crib. West Georgia undrafted. And Baker felt like he was in the crib because he was just getting rocked in his crib because it was full of Steelers. Yes. Every time I looked up. He would plant in any would. Hit by from both sides thought he was allusive. Remember he had great pocket. It was telling me, thank you. Thank you. Could we see a play at the end of the first quarter? This is pure vintage Baker Mayfield. Could we see as scape artistry on a play that happened, right? At the end of the first quarter is still a football game. Watch this tell me this isn't scape. Ism woops whips. A little Johnny Manziel going on thirty yards to Jarvis Landry forbid completion that set up a missed field goal. That would have them, right? Oh, I know we're not feel alone. I know we're not talking about midfield goals would've missed field goal against get opening game against Pittsburgh. Steelers would have one or two missed field goals in two minutes. New orleans. Tyrod Taylor started lineup. I know we're not talking about midfield. Now. I think it's my turn. So then at the end of the game. When Baker finally got protected on the first play of the whole game that you got protected. He just wings one to somebody named Seth devolve. Some like four string tied in for tasha. Can we see that play? This is a rocket now shook up there we go. That's Baker Mayfield. Give him a little bit of time. And that's what's going to happen. You'll let me know time. So what if you don't mind me asking what quarterback couldn't you give time that couldn't do that? Ginny. This is Baker Mayfield. I'll take Baker over Sam darnold. That's got. You gotta Sam the whole point. That's what separates quarterbacks is the ability. When the situation is chaotic when you're not getting the kind of protection bet you should or you got in practice. Can you still make those play? So now, the rookie quarterback is caught in the crossfire that is just like open warfare now between the head coach and the offense coordinator we saw coming in hard knocks because they were adding forty hearty. There you go because Todd Haley's been a head coaching, Greg. Leans defense court has been a head coach. And all of a sudden, they're at war over thirty and control and also Hughes saying last week and he apologized for it after the game yesterday. But he said last week. I gotta take more control. I wanted to have some some impact on the play call. Yeah. And how would you like to be a rookie caught net? Cross. I'll tell you. What what I would do if I if I'm the head coach, and I make a recommendation this is not a request. This is an order that direct order this. I don't request you to do it sometime. I request an invitation such a request your presence. No, no, no. This is not a request. I'm telling you what you're going to do next. There's a reoccurring theme with Todd hailing him big being couldn't get alone. Remember when he was calling plays in Arizona him a him in and Quan Khu almost got into it on the sideline and ten along. We got the Ryoko we keep we agree. We like common denominator. Right. So they've been. So if I'm Hugh Jackson, I'm looking at heart. I don't ask you to do anything. I tell you what to do. And until until I'm relieved the my duty the head coach. When I tell you to run the ball, you run the ball. I tell you what you throw it sums gotta give he's gotta go all the reports. Yesterday, said somebody's going either, Hugh or Todd, and I'm with you. It would seem like it would be Todd. But I'm not sure about that. Because you came into this year one and thirty one the play caller, though out five tar Halen, I call my own plane. Okay. And I'm going down with my ship. Now, this is my ship on the head coach of the bible, get fired. I'm going to get by calling my place doing it my way so by Todd Haley rocks. Well, the new GM John Dorsey did not hire you. So will he side with Todd Haley or you? I don't see who we go inside where because I'm getting him out in the note, though, either he got to go, look, I'm still the hair coat. Hugh got on that. A couple of years ago. I wanna find me I'll still pay me. But let me go and earn his see if I can turn this thing around that what I would do if I was you. Now, they got some mutant going on on defense. And I must say the don't let me down. I don't like that not like the mouse. Gary MAs great players could shot at his coordinate rape players. Don't I don't recall, and I was in my prime when Reggie White and Bruce Smith and all these great. I never heard them saying the game plan when you great you abroad of a game playing. You think you'll see had a game plan know? But you saying we should've kept it simple. Like, we did the first time and just just played our base defense. No tricks. No wrinkles thing. Yep. Skip when people watch you on tape him play. What do you think they go back and do? Okay. That's what they done. So you have to do other things because they prepared for that. And your job is to go get to the quarterback. Matt no matter what the play. Okay. So the rookie quarterback is caught in all this up evil. This chaos. No, no, no, no, no here down, but up nears close that doesn't affect you you go do your jobs hard to be. The situation the Denver in nineteen ninety two when John and Dan Reeve going back and forth bullets to make a decision that in the fake, Shannon. Hey, you're not the quarterback job. So I'm worried about what's going over there. Guess who? Go have a job me. Go and do your job if you if he what if he what you said he is. Well, what did I? Well, he got to show me. I'm from maybe next week from zero to. I'll from zuri show me. Hey, well, the Sega Nana Pam homes. Look forward to he'll show you their June. Maybe penpal. June. Maybe penpal. We do have some breaking news reports say you Jackson has just been fired by the Browns Jackson, only won three games lost thirty six during his three seasons in Cleveland, Shannon. What is your reaction to the news? I'm not surprised America, Cabot who writes for the Cleveland Plain Dealer skilled, and when it comes to the Cleveland Browns the by does. And he said it was going to be either Hugh Jackson or Todd hailing one of those guys we're going to have to go where they made it abundantly clear who they wanted to leave. But here's the thing at one fifteen you don't fire, Hugh O and sixteen you don't fire Hugh to five one, Hugh, you got to go. What did you expect him to be fixing to a February one? It's give them to get out of here you goodwill Cleveland, not very good. They're they're hard knocks gave us a false sense of what the Cleveland Browns could be. I think I had him at what sixty I think I haven't been six games you say they could possibly win nine if they started Baker Mayfield. Well, Josh, Gordon is still there that would stop skill. What do you mean? Stop is. He not Tom Brady's new favorite receiver. Well, if you don't think he'd be helping Baker Mayfield showed up on time he was possessed. Okay. That's fair. I'm good with this. And I have supported and defended you over the years, but he lost me during hard knocks as I've said many times on this show. And I think he got a power struggle with two former head coaches who are big personalities that both coordinators and they're firing show that during hard knocks vying for attention and control of the football team. And of the hard knocks, you know who can take over hard knocks for a while Greg Williams, and it was Todd Haley Hughes fighting back and hugest felt like he was flailing to me now for the last four or five games. And he's trying to to fight with Todd Haley publicly last week and try to get some new impact and input on the game plan, and it's just wrong. And finally, John Dorsey said, no that's enough. And guess what you wasn't John Dorsey guy. We're not surprised I I was kinda surprised that he was able to keep the giant Jimmy John Dorsey with higher because normally skip like, you say GM bring I won't mind guy. I won't from what I heard I know this guy, but they gave you a chance, but I'm not surprised, you know, Hugh headed opportunity he didn't get the job done. So he has another year left on his contract. He's still gonna make some money. But I still believe Hugh is an excellent play caller deserve. Then we'll get it. And I hope he gets a coordinator job because that's what I think he's best at and he deserves a shot, but these this was a troubled football team. This will clarify the situation and maybe Baker will start to rally rally nothing. They gave us a false watching them. Oh hard. Wit seven eight game say windows, seven eight game Beth cave near you six and I would be buried Rashard Higginson hurt and Derek Willie. Well time on come coming cost the Packers a chance to win yesterday. Rogers was reportedly very upset with Gummer's decision to return a kickoff or joined by FOX NFL analyst, Greg Jennings. All right. Greg Rogers be that upset with Montgomery absolutely one hundred percent, no doubt about I'm gonna tell you right now. I was upset like as a fan. I felt like we all got robbed got raw from opportunities just witness what could have potentially took place, or maybe what wouldn't have take wouldn't have we ever. We have is. We did either way we would have found out. What could have what didn't what would have whatever the case may be. But we never got that opportunity. I think it was snatched away. But as far as time on Gumri goes, very smart player. I was I was very shocked that he even decided to take it out. But I put it on time on Gumri as well as coaching because in that situation, you had you must be clear and concise when it comes to what we are doing. I truly believe that if they had told timeout gummy. We are not bringing it out. He would not have brought that ball out of the end zone. But when you give a player the opposite. Or you say make a great judge, which he is always done a very smart player. Very sure handed doesn't put the ball on the ground and in that situation. He's two not even two to four yards deep in the end zone. So in kick return rules if you're not three yards or deep. Ever you? You can bring it out. It's up to your discretion. He felt like again, I is operatives for me to make a play. I can make relate hero. And so, but because I know the type of player time on Gummer is. I'm not holding this against him for the remainder of the season, obviously. But if I'm on the sideline, and he's my teammate at that moment. I'm hot I am disturbed. I'm like come on, man. You gotta you gotta Neil because two minutes and five seconds left. You gotta free time because the two minute warning. You have time on your back pocket. You got Rodgers your offices opened up. You're running the ball. Well, the you have their defense on their toes. Everything is in your favor and we've seen air Rogers perform at a high level in this situation when much less time to work with me. I'll give me a chance. He's played for the Packers falls from Aaron Rodgers. But you did not cross over with time. Montgomery, but you've heard from other players what he's like as teammate. He's a great teammate. And just loves them. He loves them, one of the smartest. I mean, this this is so uncharacteristic. That's why I was I was almost like what are you doing? Because it just didn't it doesn't fit time on Gumri and in smart football in that situation. And again, that's why I can I he stares the blame with coaching staff because I think if you're clear in just concise and Mike McCarthy said in his press conference. The. The idea was to put the ball in Aaron Rodgers fans to to keep the ball in the end zone. Like not to bring it out. But he never said it with conviction relating. He said that was the idea. But he never said we told time Montgomery or we said we didn't want to return the ball less. Get it on the twenty five yard line put the ball. And if they had said that I don't think we're even talking about this, right? Some situation. You shouldn't have to say it you right to really great players supposed to know down in distance. They supposed to know circumstances. Don't look we got we got air Rogers. That's not that's not Sam darnold. That's not Josh Rosen. Chef Sam Dr that that press layer that definitely not. You know, you ain't got no chance with that. Go happens not Kirk cousins would do taking shot at first because you took a shot at. Balling. The fact that. Greg. I agree. One hundred percent not only should Aaron Rodgers be mad this whole teammates should whole team should be mad at him. Because he did he denied us of an opportunity to see if air Rogers could fail of succeed and in that situation. What do you hope to happen? Because if you bring the ball out now, you're going to be on the underside of the two minute warning. So you taking the time out from your team. At least if kneel down air is gonna get a play and to get the tour and it warranted. And he still have time. So every blade of grass if in play you don't have to worry about it. We can't throw this ball in the middle of the field because time you got plenty of time. One forty seven you probably could go up and down the field. Why nice and crossbar to that? You can make fifty six it is not about Mason Crosby out to be fair that era. Air Rogers like I know him he can put about the end zone. They are without known. Maybe you talking about a different Aaron Rodgers. But let me, but that's what I'm saying. A what he did was. He robbed us is. I get it. Sometimes when you're in the situation, you're in the heat of the moment, you don't always think clearly, and you get caught up like, okay, I've been bringing them out. I've been bringing about bringing them out, and you lose at this point. I mean, we only down to this quarter. We like to five live the first quarter running kick back fourth quarter under two minute. We're down to something down the different. So you have to always constantly conscious constantly be on your toes. And what the really really great ones can do is that when the situation become even more stressful. They can slow it down and still sleeping that Iraq. Boy, like me get out like before the I never took this. But if outta wrong because I saw everything clearly where you know. Slow down. I just like I could see people coming. This is what I need to do the situation where we will play in Kansas City in nineteen ninety three. They didn't have any more time out now John through-ball in. I cooked him that degree Greg Greg team for sixty three. But anyway. But anyway situation they had no time out skill. Okay. And John through a Bali like four yards behind the line of scrimmage. I would have more yard. But he. I caught the ball for the simple fact, I know they didn't have any time out. This ball is incomplete. Now that's gonna stop the clock and going to give them an extra thirty seconds. I wanna eat all that time. Got it. You gotta know that you have high Q, I give you that football. And. No you do. No, nothing's coming. I'm going back to what Michael silver wrote for NFL dot com. And he said that time Montgomery was furious about the previous series and he only played six offense plays the whole day because he's sort of a combo back in a receiver tight but in on his sixth play of the of the whole game. He was in on first and ten from the twenty one yard line on the previous possession and Aaron through him a little past inside if we could please see that and Aaron had Russia right up in his face and through low and outside if yes lease see that light here it is. He just throws it low and outside, and there's no way I don't know maybe tycoon dived and caught it. It's highly doubtful. And what happened at that moment in Kane took him up on Yankee m- right out of the game. And according Michael silver, one of the teammates said anonymously that he was furious in that he threw his helmet down on the sideline. And it's possible. There was a little bit of rebellion going on there. A little bit of mutiny like, okay. If you're gonna do that. To me. I'll do this back to you. And I'm not saying he's trying to sabotage. He just saying, okay. If it's my turn, it's my turn. I'm just going to return this. And this is where I disagree with the idea that it was two yards deep if we could see the return again, he gets a little head start. And he actually catches the ball right on the goal line. If we could see if you like he gets a look yard. And he goes he's running forward. He caught it the ball's going to drop just barely over the goal line with the intention all along with run that ball out of the you say, do you agree with you? But any special teams coach would advise on that kick to return it? That's a returnable kick under any other circumstances. This. So it's not like it went five yards. But he had he had to look around and say, oh, I'm from start. You know, like he had to go with it. That's not what happened. He got a little running start any took it at the goal line. And he thought he could make a play. He's been kind of a playmaker and a little bit ways for them over time. He's made a little big plays against my cowboy Stewart three times and games back in twenty sixteen. He's not a bad player. But he's lost his spot in the rotation to a bunch of back starting with Aaron Jones. So is he just an unhappy camper? Yep. He probably is. Did he just say I'm gonna do this? My way problem with he told flat out don't run it out of the end zone. Take a knee. I don't think he was told me, but I agree with you. I wanted to see I was just deflated J the whole game just sell flat at that point because virtually ended with his decision. And then I gotta give Romney Wilson. I didn't know he's a fourth round pick out Georgian. He just flat out took the ball out of his hand. He's gonna way he just took it out of his look into shot. He called him. He didn't see him came in from the side. So he caught him plus days to begin with. And it's not good enough. These what they do they teach not just get the tackle get the ball out. He tackled. The foot and literally just wrenches at hand and falls down with it on the ground got guy. He ain't got the air hole shot. Great again to your point though. It's not that Aaron Rodgers was overreacting or this. His teammates were overreacting. As fans watching the game robbed us exactly we felt robbed. And again this. This is beyond time on Gumri because he's a great guy. Great teammate all those things, but come on, you gotta know the situation any other situation as you alluded to you bring that ball out one hundred times one hundred out of one hundred you do but two minutes left in the game. With that quarterback with the offices rolling in the way that defense was playing. Okay. If you'd run it to the forty would you give him a pass, I was gonna say Hetty, not even fumbled. We're still filing. Okay. Because at least you lost your your two minute. Right. I'm out. Yes. You lost? You lost a free. What you concern with is that you run time off the clock time is of the essence. So you want to save as much as you can't. So if even if he runs into the board it's getting he's gonna be. So if he gets it to the forty wasn't gonna be one forty eight one forty we won't time. We don't feel when I'm dealing with Aaron Rodgers. I don't care about field position. As a matter of fact, you can start me in the stand if you'd like because I have the confidence that he's going to deliver robbed us Melika Melika three eight eighteen remember what? Remember what they ask questions that will a man, rob guy. He asked himself. Yes. In auburn. He robbed us Roger do because he robbed us of seeing air. Roger that is all greatness before that Sunday metro, Michael Jordan had a commercial. They go to forgotten. Nobody go decide who to go deals. I'm sure. Give up a pass that called to ask them that every Sunday will mayor rob that he said he has already. Yes, they weighed over there. Bring them to the storehouse in the man opened up the window mammon employ poor you out a blessing, really. What do y'all alone? Thank you, Sean. Let me drop. Dollars. I prefer proverbs twenty three nine within the hearing of a fool for he will despise the. This is the wisdom of your words about that. Always my wisdom. You got. No with us. Know you working on your bay. Keisha? You don't Jason begin to have a look like one day off. There's another one in proverbs that there's a way there's a way that seems right to a man. But the in their of that it was a way to time going not true. He thought that way was right? Well, you know, Greg business. Visit the fog is way might be. The wave. Absolutely not so impressed by vehicles. Greg you for joining us. Debate in the NFL is four the title of best quarterback Tom Brady or Aaron Rodgers will Sunday night might help the debate. And the Packers are traveling to Foxborough to play the patriots and NBC got none other than Michael Jordan to hype up the match up. Take a listen to this. A lot of talk going on these days about who is the greatest ever. Who has titles raw talent? The most clutch moment. I get it is a tough call. I mean, even the jersey numbers sake. But. But maybe the best way to this debate played out. Did. I'll watch that. I'm sorry. I had to watch that. Gre about I need to know. What's your reaction to this? You look set for the first time in my life. I am angry with Michael Jeffrey joy what I am stunned and disappointed that he would stoop to give credibility and credence to not one debate. But to debates he opened to wrong doors. He actually put himself in the same cute little sentence with LeBron James on even belong in the same sense with Michael Jordan. And then he opened a second door. Aaron Rodgers does not belong in the same breath with Tom Brady. I know. But why would he stoop to do a commercial is it for money? Really does Michael need the money. How could NBC pay him enough with all the money? He has to do an abbey hundred last year. One point does he need the money. No, no. He doesn't need the money. Does he need the attention? Does he need to stay relevant? Doing a Sunday night. No, no. He doesn't need his sneakers. We'll keep him relevant for the rest of his born days. And then some right Correo. Why would he stoop to do this because he opened two huge telling the truth telling that? If you put him on the lie detector right now, he would laugh out loud at LeBron James being in the same sentence, and he opened the door cute ad because they both were twenty three and the other two both work. Athlete. What you killed? He was talking about Aaron Rodgers and Tom Brady, and you told because LeBron tweet is something that he was going there. That was the joke of the commercial that was the little clever conceit to the commercial was he was oh, we going to LeBron. No. And then, of course, LeBron to his credit jumped right on the bandwagon because Michael opened his door and LeBron ran through like he should have what happens open the door flies coming your house. That's right. A fly just got my fly got in came right through the door. Because all the blind. Witnesses will say oh, see Michael's knowledge ING that there's a competition between there's no you all did you write a competition middle competition. Bit over what you'll have to say it again, Michael is six and Owen finals versus LeBron's three and six Michael Jordan once ten scoring titles to LeBron's one. Do I need to start? How far do I need to go? How much? Far. The Cleveland Cavaliers genie. We're in the NBA finals, they lose one player. They start to see oh and fix. They find the head coach now in nineteen Ninety-three to Chicago Bulls won fifty seven games and the NBA title, Michael, Jordan, retired. They win fifty five game which is to games, and they are hue Hollins blown call away from advanced into the Eastern Conference finals they lost carry urban who was a top. What ten top twelve thirteen player? They go to the final. So that arguments get I don't really need. We need to have an argument. We all do. I do I need to bring up that in as we saw just the other night then in late game clutch free throw shooting. Lebron can't make one to save his life or his team's life. He just can't even how about right now. Lebron without a co star without a solo star a second star look at what's happened. This team could have only one win so far if not for land Stevenson land, Stephen saves the night without LeBron could have no wins. Where would they be with Libya question? If the bra is still in Cleveland, do you believe loom would've lost his job Eastern Conference now that you're in the Western Conference? So let's just get this straight real quick on. What's happened? So far to LeBron here in LA. Let's let's frame this. So the Lakers are down one with eight minutes left at Portland close. King couldn't close they're down with four thirteen left against the rockets in the ball game closed. King couldn't close then they're up six with fifty six seconds left in overtime. It gets my Spurs on that Saturday night game cl-. Close. King Armand is left Monday night close. You've got to close that you couldn't then this past Saturday night. They're up one with seven minutes left ninety six to ninety five at San Antonio gets. What's left of my Spurs close at king? And he couldn't close it. They lost again. Just going glow. Just defect with two minutes and twenty seconds you down by one thirty three to thirty. You're down one thirty three thirty two close. Go dump Radi. Clones game fourth down one. What do you do? Get may live. You. Heath gourd this all that game. If you go point he had closed a whole bunch of because he'd wanted. Oh, so nice on the bride and never to nother one that should have stayed close except for the luckiest plane Joel correctly. So LeBron James is never ever closed the game before proud of this year. He had never closed the game. How about one that counts? Kyri closed the one that counted. Redo it right now, it just doesn't matter. You know, what I'm going off surgery? Second big surgery and same told me anytime about Kyrie or told me anytime somebody's going to court, and that has your name on the back day kick you to be great. But I don't know how we got off a what Michael regionally started talking about which was Tom Brady and Raji open. The lebron. I won't. I was gonna get a broader risk today. I wanna give I would treat like the savvy sweep him under the car. Oh, no, nobody notices what's going on. I got another thing. I can't thirty five eleven and four part of the carpet. But that's not what we're talking about. So think about this Tom Brady is one five out of eight Super Bowls that should be six out of eight couldn't be Aaron Rodgers one long ago Super Bowl and since that Super Bowl Aaron Rodgers is five and six in the postseason and just during that stretch Tom Brady is thirteen and five in the postseason. Overall, Tom Brady is twenty seven and ten to errands ten and seven how can you put them in the same? But it's like insulting to me that we're even having this conversation and Michael opened the door cutesy ad for NBC. Why I don't know this gained what what's the wind for Michael Jordan near there's no win. Because there's no win. I'm angry with the first time. What are you thinking? Seriously. What are you thinking? Gimme at rationale NBC asked him said. Mike, would you mind doing this boss over force? We have a big probably the biggest Sunday night game that we've ever that we've ever had. And we talk. About the two best quarterbacks and football playing. Currently are there the lot of debate about which is better. Tom Brady Aaron Rodgers weed, and he mentioned one guy very accomplished one guy that what he said. Michael, Jordan, San agree. Okay. The I agree. So now, get it. He's he's now a lot of conversation. That's to go back and forth over water cooling that the barbershop debating, he's, but you know, only one way to settle this thing. Play. I'm gonna watch LeBron's like wanna play one on one. Michaels like sixty five asking you to style in the broad this equation way to go LeBron only some guts we're talking about Aaron Rodgers. We're talking about Tom Brady. And I just want you to tell me why didn't Tom close when he was down one thirty two thirty three in the Super Bowl. I don't wanna hear about five. Oh five. I don't wanna hear about who. Simply the all time record for any playoff game. It was simply the most points ever scored by a loser in the Super Bowl thirty three points. The most points ever scored in a finals game in which the player loss fifty one. But he came to my restaurant didn't make excuses, and you say you gotta close the game. So I just wanna know why all of a sudden you find every way possible to make use of Tom Brady. I don't care if his defense gave up seven thousand yards you go get thousand one if you wanna go you can do it. How did genius Bill? Bell checks defense. Give up forty one to the backup quarterback for the Philadelphia. Eagles helped me out was it because Malcolm Butler had to watch from sidelines from the doghouse, I don't know that same that same genius. That told his return a- do not bring the ball out of the end zone to run useless time off the clock the same genius. That had his snapper. Snap the ball over the pundits head never and take the safety end up winning the ballgame to get the game to get the ball back. Tom Brady that genius lease give sometimes it's the little things that goes unnoticed that leads to the greatness or shows how great a coach if Lee you think well, he this is his expertise defense, if they're not the two thousand ravens they can't be good. Well, who's going that is that two thousand rabies or two thousand bucks or the seventy Steelers? No one the fact that he's able to do this should give speaks volume two. His greatness. Do you? Remember what he did to the ninety Buffalo Bills who were head of their time with the k gun that game plan is in the hall of fame. You know that he was the coordinator. He's still should be accord noted if what he did that to make at five he should still be a coordinated well head coach he had losing records and five of his first six seasons and guess who fell out of heaven into his lap my Shanahan, Carol some guys everybody. Understood everybody is not as great first look at look at Tom Coughlin com-combined, really win anything. Tom Copley got his offended by. We've been saw yesterday. It's classic Aaron Rodgers. He's going to throw a teammate under the bus. It's his fault. He's a blade not leadership. What did we see LeBron due at the end of game one of the NBA finals at Oakland. He just melted down on the bench and he separated himself on the team. I don't want to get with that mess. Tom do win Tom yelling screaming at teammates running the wrong. When he which one talk one on the Underwood happen like ten years ago. And he was two days later. Did it happen? It happened over on the bench. He was the team and the wrong they kept they kept he'll out of the hall of fame the half with all the beach. And then did you see LeBron already started with his Lakers? You see the late time out in the Laker game on Saturday night and watch every say what LeBron went over and sat on the scores table when they'd fallen down eight with a minute thirties. He goes and sits on the scores table because that's who he is. He's Aaron Rodgers or vice versa. They're the same guy. He sits on the scores table. Like I associated with that mess in the huddle. He guys telling me we got to and got it down to one way to go. Got it down to what Rondo layer. But that's not what we're talking about. How does not have a smart play Todd Gurley here? That's a smart play. If you got Steph curry if. If you got Klay Thompson, it you got one of these great three point shooter. Where's that at on the lake of team? But we're not talking about that. I want you to stop trying to get me off topic Jordan say that there needs to there is a debate going on that needs to be settled be sat on all Sunday night. I hope they paid him a billion dollars. The only reason my free because he he he will the answer. Just like everybody else down might know what I know to be doing. You know, what I don't know what he's doing maybe owed somebody favorite NBC bay. I have no idea mad at Michael Jordan. I am rolling. Restore different ER. He's opened up all these sick. And the Red Sox are champions again after beating the dodgers last night here in LA skip. How impressive was your guy David price as a Vanderbilt along. I was so proud of David price for finally coming up. Big in a postseason for the Boston Red Sox so Walker. Bueller? Vanderbilt was the best dodger picker pitcher David price stole the show. Vanderbilt baseball. You can I tell you Tampa Bay say where would that when we're in the play off into the World Series? But I doubt graph on that scare when you look. This was the best team in baseball risk thoughts from start to finish. And it was and when you have the guy that's gonna probably finish one in in the MVP Mookie Beth JD Martinez. And then every time they come up with a pinch hitter. Two guys on like, man. I just hope he can put it in play. He hits the ball over the fence every time they needed a timely hit. They got it except for Friday night. What eighteen eighty but become most give I mean, nobody's dollars better. That they did this. And that you can all you can all look back and say, you know, what there's nothing the dodgers could have done that was going to make them better than the Red Sox in this series. Correct. Better team won congratulations to the Red Sox. Lot of friends of mine in Boston were happy about that one. But we're getting them back to game three of the World Series on Friday night. Because look who it is Jason Garrett sitting in the front row for that game because the Cowboys had a by but Garrett has faced some criticism for being there. Former Cowboys coach Jimmy Johnson said on FOX NFL Sunday, quote, I think it sends the wrong message not only to the fans to the players at three and four. There's work to be done, Shannon. Do you have a problem with Gharib Lena at the game? No getting good. None. I love Jimmy and he works with us. But did not work twenty four hours a day. And just because who said he didn't get his work done. Listen from nineteen ninety six to nineteen ninety eight. We went thirty nine games we went to Super Bowls. We went to division titles and. Coaching? We would come flying on a rip from a road trip. And the coaches would not even go home. They were stay breakdown field in on by weeks. We got Friday Saturday and Sunday off we had to be back by noon on Monday. I can assure you now, maybe the coaches didn't go to game, but they weren't in there. Mike Shanahan made it abundantly clear. I want you guys to get away scale to say because Jason Garrett has a life. That's not breaking down and putting a game plan twenty four hours a day. What message what look is the by week? They make it seem like he that the game on a Friday night and they play on Sunday. That's not the case. So so in other words, Jason Garrett is supposed to have no life that isn't book ball related to football season. Give you and I know best that's disingenuous. That's not true. I know I've been on teams that won eight a lot of games. And I know the coach was spinning over a hundred hours. Doing a seven day span. But when it came time to the BI week, they got days off, and whether they went on vacation, they went to my aunt or whatever they did that was there. Right. That was their business. So to say because oh, this is this why they only went three games because he that this game little Breyer pray with excited to should've called me out to be right? And plus he was doing his job one of his job to do skill clap. Plan the gauge 'cause he was doing exactly what he was opposed. You'll he's actually he's a gifted class. I've never seen the clever with with that was when they won the game that was eighteen that was Saturday. Right. That was Friday Friday Friday. Yeah. He was doing up stayed for all eighteen, but whereas he go he had never do Hollywood. He's gotta go. Hang with Brad. Hi, we know Jerry at the hotspot how we would Jerry might skew stopped. We need to stop with this. Now, I haven't even started with just go to Maine. To may have a life. You just want my Cowboys to explode in lose. Right. You want him to come apart at the side of that hurt. You know, what Jason Garrett should be sitting on a hot seat as a coach. And instead he was sitting in the coolest seat on Friday night next to Brad paisley at Dodger Stadium very near to Hollywood during their bye week it since such a wrongness as Jimmy said the fans and even to the players, what do they are three and four this is the time as you. Well know when you as a coaching staff self scout, you go back to those seven-game tapes, and you tear them all apart. Just like you're an opposing coach trying to figure out how to beat that often. And you say, let's try this. Let's do that. Let's turn this upside, let's go this. We got a brand new receiver Amari, Carol Cooper. And we gotta go out and find out how to get him in grey shaded the quickest into offer the coordinator position coat head coach his job. He is. The offense coordinator. Well, I'm just saying this is what he does best. And this is what he should be doing. It's just a bad. Look, even if you wanna take the night off and take your wife out to dinner in Dallas, I'm fine with that. If the World Series had been in Houston, I could make a better case because it's just a short flight, but you went to Hollywood odd years, so this this may hold on. I get it. Yes. You do a lot of self evaluating. Scouting. You do see how heavier formation, you know, you know, what might would tell guys when we run this tall. We're heavily I formation right handed. So let's run some of this week when we get in this formation eighty percent of the time. We throw it in the Shannon the ball on the backside Ostra. Okay. I get all of that. Right. So let me get. So you mean to tell me they couldn't do that on Monday Tuesday. This romero. What's coming up? The titans. Visit the next a week from tonight on Monday night football. The titans are third in points allowed is that good. That's pretty good. That's one notch behind the Dallas defense is that going to be a low scoring battle yet. You will not. So what you need to spend a little more time on the times. And then guess what happens the next weekend you have to go to Philadelphia. Maybe you could get a jump on scouting Philadelphia. I don't know. I don't know. Why you you just want to lose your feet what you're doing? Now. All of a sudden, you putting everything you Philly. Why are we worried about feeling when we got the titans? What we worry about feeling you have by week. You can get a jump on. You got people breakdown. I guarantee you that people Phillies already been broken down Phillies already been broken out the game they played down. But we're not worried about them because we got the titans. But in the meantime, they gave me some time off. So I'm taking my time. Let me get this. Right. You tell me, oh, I want to make sure he'd you correctly. You know, he'll always tell me they it. You got this time you got three days off telling Chrissy produces with Charlie Dick's, they say, well, you know, what we will get you out three day. So you try to tell me you want me to get ready if still practice debating, you even on my time off I wish I might you know, I'm right about without my day on them. But I will tell you what we do. Go be out like a scout on a new route. I don't where I'm going, but I'm going somewhere not going to be on FOX lot you need to stop. What is the hand line on our new commercial better com prepared Jason Garrett? You better come prepared for the titans. And then the eagles you got time. Are you going to waste it out in Hollywood is just a you know, what it comes across. It comes across like Jason Garrett is now these semi-retired retired son of Jerry Jones. He just am. I Ryan how you get from. 'cause he's just resting on his laurels like Jerry does joy of life. I do not want. That's a bad look three and four if you are seven, and maybe I'd give it three wanna make sure I'm hearing you correctly. So if he takes his wife out that means he's not three or four if he goes somewhere with the public can't see him or cameras cake, by the way, I think she was with him at the game. But I'm just trying to say so how did him going out change their record at this point? Look, it's I was so proud of Jimmy yesterday because Jimmy Johnson took a stand against this. Because he knew this was the right thing to say and remember Jason played for Jimmy Jimmy is fond of Jason both as a backup quarterback and a coach. I think Jimmy's given a lot of advice to Jason again. Jason probably didn't ask him about this one. This is where you just don't do this now. So I was gonna make sure you're correct. And see Jim I'm gonna ask him. So Jimmy on the bye week. You weren't on Friday insulting you work the exact same hours that you work then they normal week Jimmy had an expression used to tell me back in the days. I covered his teams, and he would always say don't work like the mule works smart. So you work hard in in a certain timeframe where you just you give it all you got. And then you take a break. Okay. But he's just saying this is a bad look because you're sending the wrong message to your. We know Jason at work, smart and timeframe I hope he did I'll believe in four. I think you need to stay home. You always gets keep it keep it smooth. I won't I won't my coach. I don't want my coach up and down skip. I want him to become like like like the calmness. You've into the rut me, Oklahoma. I don't have anything you'll have like rivers lakes. Come. Yeah. Be seeing. Just calm. You know, she's got ten thousand lakes, right? Well done. Ron didn't belch go to games during Super Bowl week. And we didn't. No. Different. Was so. Besides besides skipping. I don't hear. No, I'm saying because they were good. This is different. But that was the new Bella check who looked like he was mutinying. Well, stop what you said that to you said, this is character. I what the next time. We get a break. Let me find that. You went to prom spring with bay. Don't coach you me. And I need you to get your you say you're better come up head to get under twenty seven days a week. Even we all. Occasion. I got up at two o'clock. So I could get the jump on you. And I got it. Good. I'll do it tomorrow and the next day and the next goal baking when they tell us we're not going to compete that day. I'll take it off. The JC gay one competing, and he took a day off is that's a problem. I know, but it's not like I have the titans in the eagles to get ready. It's just you know, I you good. Them both of those guys. Got this. He does wake up earlier. Thanks for listening to the undisputed podcast. I'm Jenny Taft. Join us again at the same time tomorrow morning, nine thirty eastern. See you then.

Aaron Rodgers Tom Brady Jason Garrett football LeBron Baker Mayfield Cleveland NFL coordinator Hugh Jimmy Jimmy Greg Greg Amy Baker Michael Jordan Hugh Jackson Shannon Steelers Sam darnold Packers Tom Brady Aaron Rodgers
Bluegrass Pussy Riot

Mueller, She Wrote

1:58:44 hr | 2 years ago

Bluegrass Pussy Riot

"Thanks to third love for supporting muller. She wrote third knows. There's a perfect proffer everyone so right now. They're offering our listeners. Fifteen percent off your first order go to third love dot com slash a._g. To find yours today and thanks to policy genius for supporting muller she wrote policy genius is the easy way to shop for life insurance online in just two minutes. You can compare quotes from top insurers to to find your best price at policy genius dot com and finally thanks to honey for supporting miller. She wrote you ever buy something online only to find out later. You missed a discount. Honey is a free rebe browser add on that finds the best deals online. It's free to use and easy to install on your computer and just two clicks so shop with confidence. Get honey for free at join in honey dot com slash a._g. You'll be glad you did. This is seth abramson. I'm the author of proof of collusion and you're listening to muller. She wrote so to be clear. Mr trump has no financial relationships with any russian works with those what he said. That's what i said. That's obviously with due to our position is. I'm not aware all any of those activities. I have been called a surrogate at a time or two and that campaign and i didn't have not have communications with the russians to get involved twelve with putin for i have nothing to do with putin have never spoken to him. I don't know anything about him other than he will respect me russia. If you listening i hope you're able to find the thirty thousand emails that are missing so it is political. Your communist know mr green communism. He's just a red herring like all members of the oldest profession. I'm a capitalist seriously. One of the most beautiful wonderful all cities. I got to tour the shop of one of my heroes today adam savage he was going to be joining us later and of course we also have stephanie miller with us today who is a fantastic human human being but as you know i'm your host a._g. But with me as always are julius johnson and jordan lemon. Oh that's nice yeah. It's all i can do is like dance in mocking spurts of roger rabbit's and things is that we did in the ninety s respect that high. It's very intimate here. I can see each and every one of your bright shiny faces zip lovely. How are you guys. I'm good great. Yeah san francisco's fantastic yes using city. I'd heard experience so i hopped into newberg. This is like my first s._f. Is that okay to say. Okay okay not san fran frisco briscoe. It's a mob now. We'll take a poll yeah. That was great. Fran is what i hear right. That's i told him you guys would go right. Well back down in sandbag everyone's and san fran but i got a new love dago. They do love that. It's because they like saying hard at the end of it. Dago go hard. Everyone's has said oh yeah yeah. I think they go diego a stranger things yeah definitely definitely yeah but i got on the super and i question the guy asks he's like what are you here for said we're here for podcasts like cool podcast said moeller she wrote and he goes does call moisture was that it was like the more investigations okay you think he's going to jail like trump and he goes no molar like a twenty minute. Drive just headed a long ragged. Ah ha i was like well. I disagree. I interesting uber experiences too. I wrote in a tesla. I mean my girlfriend wearing a tesla for an uber. Is that common in san francisco. Oh okay well. That was really cool. Yeah no no political commentary so five stars the way i know and then and then does the first time i've heard this story yeah and then he's like informed by i like fox news was so he knows he knows words. That like related to what's happening. There all funneled through shit funnel. That's just like it's so wrong wrong and so he's like all of molar. He brings ray into it. He says he's as a brennan isa. Go to jail choline go to jail jail the most conservative republican motherfuckers on the planet right. He said why lifelong democrats they all are on earth. He wants everyone. I go to jail like that scene. From austin powers whereas leg everybody leaves except you catchment holding wrench or fuck you fuck you fuck you. That's actually pretty spot on. I'm half-baked right now. Yes i'm eleven. Yes yes talk to your uber drivers. I guess see them. Yes yeah your servers. Your bartenders yeah kellyanne independent. What an awesome venue seriously one of the coolest venues that we've had so i i really love it here but you really need to hear there's another uber story that are are additional. Panelist is going to tell you about and i want to welcome her. Now you guys to complete our panel. The host of the stephanie miller show on sirius x._m. One twenty-seven comedian all all around incredible human being. Please welcome stephanie miller. They oh keep it going. You're going did it meet too high a._g. High seventy how are you <music>. I'm fucking trashed. How is how are you san francisco so i think that you need you to tell them about your uber experience on the way over here. Oh my gosh thanks for asking okay so i just came from north carolina taking care of my ninety six year old. Oh mom who has alzheimer's who is a fox news watching trump voting republican who said to me while i was there. He's the most popular president in my lifetime he try. He's trying to do so many good things. So that's how it started this week and then i got okay so the uber on the way here he was like what republicans democrats are just as corrupt as fucking republicans. I hate all the aren't gonna. Fuck you up and you're not gonna get a tip and he's like you know what fuck you fuck you all right. Tell me your story a good way to start off having a really good conversation because he was like you know they all talked us because uber and lift and they all fucked also they said how do we fix that. I bet elizabeth warren has a plan for that. How do we help you i said how do we fix it. He said okay if you know there's an app here in san francisco right. It's what's the app where you can call a taxi. He said they have an app. Here is like all right. I said let's get apps for you. Guys you can level the playing field compete with uber lift and and then i gave him a fucking thousand dollar tip on you and we had a conversation. We need to have a conversation conversation. We level the playing field for eu union people. How do we do it and that was the conversation well. I think conversations are important important yeah. You know what i made me realize that story. Though is that the same way elizabeth warren has a plan for everything. We should have an app for everything was just solve all of our racism. There's an app for that now. I feel like it would be easier more accessible. What would that app look like. Just you just open it up and says don't don't fucking say that yeah. That would actually yeah now. It'd be pretty spot on yeah this app dunk say what you were gonna say you've already. You've already lost sight suggest an app. It's like a magic eight ball say hey can. I say this about women minner. Can i say this answer is always no yeah yeah definitely an app to convince you not to be racist not like eight or something very different very deserved ever a time. It's okay to call woman. No no you don't need an app for that. No oriented eight ball yeah just no. It's always always know there's a weird trend though with conservative uber drivers in this city specifically which he was a jill stein voter which i almost strangled for besides taken the wrong term on market but but it'd be voted for joel sties a._n._c. supports putin and therefore a republican ticket but we didn't know at the time that's true. I didn't vote for but i think a lot of followers didn't know but i really didn't like her orange juice juice logo. It just looked like it was for orange juice google right now. Jill stein's logo. You'll be like oh yeah orange juice. I don't know why not. I think that's a legitimate conversation don't you i mean not just how trump is fucking the farmers with this ridiculous trade war in cab with a guy who's business has been ruined by uber lifts and he's liberal and he wants to have a conversation. He's pissed okay. What how do we level the playing field for you guys and i think that that's a legitimate conversation conversation. Don't you go okay. How do we get an app so you can compete rather than just trying to blow up buber and lift and get rid of them entirely. When you start having conversations asians about it's not us versus them. It's us versus the rich people and we have to think about that. How we can level the playing field for all of us whether we're republicans publican's democrats because these mother fuckers are picking pockets and running away with our money. Yes there are some nice which people though there are there out there. They're the minority but of course because they're fucking living it up dude. There's no them that well and people well stephanie. Were very glad that you made it well. I may get knifed life to death on the way home or it may cost you thousand dollars but listen either way. Sorry you buy me a bottle of wine. We'll be even yeah. Patriotic money goes directly at a tipping gruber drivers all right guys. It is time to kick off this show with my new favorite segment corrections. Don't be insane fucking and thank you all right so applauding this. Is this what you're like at home when and you're listening you're i i. I like like hot. Notes still cracks me up. I love the monotone. That's my favorite part brings. It all together talk so i i have a correction about the entire corrections segment. You may have noticed not just in the last few episodes of miller shiro. We've only had like one or two corrections and i've been like not being. There's only female like how do why not have a zillion fucking lawyer. I'm up here talking law as it turned out. I'm also a shitty at technology and email. Our email for corrections was broken in fixed in on. I found all your correction aw was broken so the show will be five hours long. Thank you for being here so buckle up. The most of them were pleased. Do not fucking have stephanie miller as your guest from you know so i oil doesn't come from dinosaurs. Oil and natural gas is derived from a series of mass extinctions three hundred and seventy two and three hundred fifty eight million years ago due to a particularly severe plankton blooms. Thank you sarah carmichael they do we say that oil came from dinosaur. I always thought they did. I said that i'd just learned. They didn't so what she's saying. There is a concoction of animals. It's not just dinosaurs. It's also non dinosaurs. Severe plankton blooms three hundred seventy two three hundred fifty what i'm imagining you imagining some sort global liquidation of dinosaurs that results in oil is that what you're saying are we next. I fought because i'm a fan of the movie airplane where he says i the earth cool then the dinosaurs came but they turned big and fat and diet and turn into oil and then the arabs came and they bought mercedes benzes yeah the land before time i saw that same movie is that wrong. Apparently it's plankton blooms. We didn't fucking have google that we just believed airplane when and when i say we have a mouse in my pocket it was probably just me uh danny brenner wants us to note that chameleons do not change color based on their surroundings. Remember when we said komi was blending into the curtains and we went komi komi komi komi komi million they change based on their mood so instead of referring to comi blending into blue curtains is a chameleon. Perhaps we should compare him. This person says danny brenner to an octopus which does change base surroundings. Thank you daddy edie brenner the same surrounding. It's always water. I'm going to compare this to that woman that just took a fucking selfie with an octopus on her face and got stung ironically by fucking octopus. I'm going to compare this to james. Komai saying hillary was careless with her emails and then just thinking the same thing just happen to him stung by the same fucking octopus in the space to repair. It wasn't classified but that's okay. That's okay. They're like a mood ring right yeah. It's like a mood ring but this chameleon lang thank you. Danny brenner racial faces awesome rachel. Sorry i'm option. Okay sorry am i the adult supervision tonight. They just need to know because they're young enough to my daughter. So you know then the fuck up. I will well. I'll you know we're in trouble when steph miller are all non catholic school. Sh okay rachel. Rachel mccoy wants to make sure we know. It's okay to shame people for getting d._u._i.'s okay. I have a roommate just had a d._u._i. So that's mostly was for him. Yeah i agree. I feel bad. Basically the new press secretary has had to in the past five years and then you you know to you as we said but no we should shame yeah that's true i was being too nice. She wasn't for my psychotic union cabdriver. I wait a had at least two on the way here. However when i heard matt gaetz was her designated driver. I knew that was a problem. Maybe in this draft people terrifying. Maybe in future administrations matt gaetz can become an uber driver. Oh yeah injury dreams because he's not going to have a fucking job now. His license plate will just be some non valve version of milkshake. Yeah i was gonna say some super. Drivers have water in their car. You're gonna have warm. Milk shakes ready to go. My matt. Gaetz brings all the boys to the yard aw andrea rouse who has loved us since we were pronouncing it mueller wants us to know the age of consent in the u._k. A sixteen eighteen it's fourteen in austria germany portugal and italy fifteen in france the czech republic denmark and greece. Why did epstein have the states. The most places maybe right wouldn't that be like like that would make more sense logically yeah. Why didn't you ask that is immoral oral comment of any kind of less way -gistically we should be yeah twenty five miles around the world or like i know where i need to summer home. Now yeah gross greg rogers wants to make sure we know that trump isn't pushing an income tax reductions pushing payroll tax reduc deduction a reduction so that is he really doing that or just saying that he's just saying it all right because if it were a real that would actually be interesting right. He said it before two thousand eighteen two and then it never came to fruition and it's actually proof that his fucking tax bill that was supposed to help the middle class didn't do shit for the middle class oh <hes> otherwise he would need to do this. Yeah the napkin bill. They wrote it on a napkin the tax bill yeah. I was so impressed. I didn't know they could do shit and just seeing them so quickly right at tax bill and just like really fight for it. I was like damn like i will never underestimate them. They just don't care anymore. The republicans have had that shit like hiding in a desk for like twenty years. Oh you it now. All of those things have been done before. You don't need a fucking napkin just like read the internet in it and that's what they did. The same the same shit like trickle down bullshit trickle talk shit like an ice speak as jordan's republican mom right right now. I feel like the tax cut is not gonna love her to get that nose ring out of her nose in ever find a proper man to take care of your. We're roasting each other now. I love your face when you do that voice. Jordan jordan has a proper man. She does is jordan. Jordan's doing pretty good proper proper proper care. That was a foolish character. I loved it though and i i think you should bring it back in the next segment when we talk about allen krinsky and he wants us to know the debate is not over religion versus race for jews. Jews are not a race as he says some jews are of ashkenazi descent generally passed as white but other jews are from the mediterranean and arab lands and they do not nor do ethiopian jews from india whether by birther conversion there are jews of all colors but being jewish is not a race okay all right. That's what he said. I i'm jewish so i'll take that person's before if someone is jewish and they consider themselves to be burris. I won't dispute that but if that makes them feel better. I just also wanted to point out how much jews have in common with like black people so that's like just being oppressed. I think it's totally right yeah or like any minority really ah but yeah if they would rather be called a religion or community instead of a raise that's fine. Yes same is still stands. Yes a._m._c.'s. I'm mostly just reading what he's done for. Sure tyler's fuck i. I can't even felt the fish. I don't even know what's going on. Although i i went to a sater and i think as a joke they give me default efficient the aid it to be kind and did ray everett says the pritzker or the family behind hyatt hotels in the marriott is their own family so i don't know where i got pritzker for marriott but they're not guys still no legal ugo corrections. That's it. Those are all the corrections one of these days. I'm going to go to vermont and take the bar just for the hell of it. I'm sorry ju- sidebar. My dad was a prosecutor nurnberg thank you what do i win yeah yeah and he has a history with this city. My dad was nominated to be vice president of the united states at the cow palace here in san francisco in one thousand nine hundred sixty four. Yes yay go water. You're the one and if you but we were talking about this backstage that i you know i didn't know so i went to catholic school my entire life talking about being really represent about being in your bubble but my best friend. My freshman year right was joel stein and he was like i'm jewish. I was like well. What is that a race or religion is like. Are you kidding question like people. Don't learn you know racism until we teach them like i didn't you know in my parents. Terrence republican country club didn't allow jews or blacks but i didn't know that when i was growing on no i went to catholic school too. I was fascinated by there was like three or four people who didn't have to go to mass every thursday in the gym and i was like why don't they go to church like oh. They're jewish. I'm like what is that. Can i be that that yeah. I was raised by atheists. I had no idea what jewish was yeah. It was all it's all news to me yeah. There's so many different flavors but you know what i've noticed about. Religion is that there's always a common denominator like jesus guy keeps coming up right. I think i think there might be some truth all of them but there are a lot of bullshit to trickle down bullshit just throwing it back yeah. It's been exploited but yeah. I think every religion has their jesus they the son of god born to virgin storm seems to repeat itself but for a good cause obviously different podcast. We'll talk about all the reasons. It's wrong but june july as atheist. Don't you feel like when trump look to the sky that i'm the chosen one that if there was a fucking god there would have been goddamn thunderbolt you think with no casualties mar-a-lago would just be wiped off the earth today. Eh hurt yeah. He's the second coming my ass if he's anything he's the antichrist in this story and i'm excited for the rapture because it's free shoes for atheist we will have a shoe party. I like shoes. Is that explicitly laid out in the in the contract that we gives shoes yeah no. It's just a byproduct of the realities appearing natural disaster you start lootings. They're picking up picking up shoes. Republicans wear lubaton. I don't even know i don't think about where we fucking com from your her childhood and my childhood. My father was a prosecutor nurnberg to trump saying there's nazis charlottesville are very fine. People know they're not fucking barry and aunt to mt antifa aren't we all antifascists weren't all our fathers and grandfathers anti-fascist says sorry go ahead. I'm sorry means anti first amendment. Everyone knows that a dude tommy learns pants are made in china. Fuck her and that's the story of this week. I told everybody last week. This is alexa industries. They fucking shits made in china. It's ninety five percents polyester and all of a sudden daily beast. It's like oh oh my god pants are made in china. You listen thanks. Can i call her. Tom what what twenty five percent of the craft content for that right what i mean it word for a reason right we can at least say that so i think anyone that's a kind can be kinda. Do you know if they're contact whatever it means to you deep down. I like to work on myself. See you antica it bills right yeah ever since boys looper yeah doc. Let's get everybody in salom decant corrections this episode of muller she she wrote live is brought to you by third love. I am officially obsessed with third love everything that they make. I get all my bras through them now. It's a woman run company. They're disrupting a male dominated the industry. 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I'll never shop anywhere else for my bras as they fit perfectly. All the issues with other bras like itchy tags and digging straps have been solved. Thanks to the perfect fit. Promise and i know that if something's not right they have my back these browser quality. They're breathable. They're lightweight literally the most comfortable bra you'll ever own third. Love knows there's a perfect bra for everyone right now. They're offering you fifteen percent off your first order so go to third love dot com slash a._g. Now to find your perfect fitting bra and get fifteen percent off your first purchase. That's third love dot com slash a._g. For fifteen percent off off today and now we have turned the news into a quiz show for our panelists. Are you ready for just the facts acts both jill lisa yes this week. The department of justice inspector general roll released its report on who's handling of the memos he wrote about his interactions with trump memos comey memos yeah you got it. Eh if he's our home at home that's to be determined story yeah t._d. On the homie i don't know yet at first he was totally are homey and then it was like u._c._r. Homemade we send those stickers out still send the comey's mahoney's. We got some on the back. If you wanna call me as my hardest daycare elephants do in merch yes yes. They had a jess sticker that we don't know if you're decided you can just cut the sticker and half. Maybe maybe someday i. I think we'll get this field office. I g report and we can fucking find out if komi as our home ear not here's what i think is irony just fucked carmen in a dirty alley and threw away that condom. That's what happens when they ruled. The comey was careless but didn't broke the law. Oh i'd get the condom reference now. That's hit me. Okay <hes> yeah so yes. Inspector general horowitz finishes investigation into what donald trump referred word to as leaks but what anyone else would call whistle blowing this week saying <hes> taking the memo's out of the f._b._i. Offices to his home and putting them in a safe was reckless. The inspector general is not recommending criminal charges and i can't help but think about when <hes> kumi called clinton's private server reckless but that he wouldn't prosecute her her there are differences though like i said combs memos were not classified they were confidential and that's even a stretch and horowitz said komi took them home without permission from the f._b._i. F._b._i. but komi was the fucking director of the f._b._i. Who do you get permission from other than yourself and there's rump fills though it's tricky because there's no rule book right no rulebook here about how komi should respond to him asking him to lift the cloud and go easy easy on flynn and i sympathize with him obviously more than trump but yeah that's this is a very gray area here yeah and komi testified at twenty seventeen that he shared two of those seven in memo's with a friend of his and asked him to share the information with reporters in hopes that a special counsel will be appointed. That's why he did it and he testified to that. He's told everybody it wasn't like he he was like you'll never know how they got the information. How are we in such a distorted reality where someone is like. I am the top intelligence official arguably and there's something something sketchy going on so i'm gonna do some shit so investigation. It's open and everyone's like that's awful not allowed fucking crazy basically what he did is he said how can and i do this without breaking the law and so he did it and it worked and he didn't break the law according to prosecutors this d._o._j. Believe me they wanted to fuck and prosecute him. Also the differences he was revealing massive obstruction of justice and lawlessness with this president and the problem is there was no there there with hillary's emails. There was never any fucking. They're they're even like intelligence. Professionals were like okay. There were two emails ended up with a small c. Which is not by the way for you to filthy potty mounts over there but is so that she was not careless. Even that was the fact that like so now he's getting the exact same treatment in percents that is literally revealing treason and corruption and obstruction of justice on a massive scale. Some trump is birthdays how this both sides do it fucking media stuff fox us every time totally totally jordan jordan this week the house judiciary subpoenaed another witness in their obstruction of justice investigation. This guy famously had to leave the white house because it came out that he physically abused. Both of his ex wives name him yacht. That's rob porter. Sing ding ding ding ding reporter order makes it go ahead. He wears wife beaters right. That's steve man. He beat question. I feel like in my brain. I have a swearing. I don't know if that actually happens no matter what shirt he's wearing. It's technically a wife beater right yeah okay but i think he did. Yeah i think you're right. I think this is a weird thing for my brand makeup. Punish itself with is that image but yeah. That's what i feel like it actually happen. I'll look for a source hopes anyway dated right the fuck. Oh picks for sure oh well she him. Hey <music> feminist but it happened that way now if he punched her. I mean technically that's punching nazi consensual punching. I'm sorry are issues a nazi sympathizer nazi z. Can i just be a buzzkill cock block around this whole conversation because wife-beating domestic violence is also the through line every every single one of these mass shooters misogyny domestic violence every single one of hatred of women yeah site partisan would ever and so it's actually like not a funny thing. The degree of misogyny going on it's a big part of white supremacism allies awesome cell culture yeah. You're s talks masculinity so yes. My little paragraphs rob porter makes a stunning joining debut in the muller report volume two section two in the evidence regarding trump asking sessions on recused himself and asking porter rachel brand would be amenable to firing. I'm older like he hasn't passed. Rob porter did not listen to the president because he knew that what he was asking. Do was tantamount to obstruction of justice. The judiciary committee has also subpoenaed denied corey lewandowski and rick dearborn both witnesses to trump's harebrained idea to curtail muller's investigation by telling lindau sg to deliver a message interesting jeff sessions to limit election interference investigations to future elections only minority report with tom. Cruise lewandowski thought that we're so insane that he asked his friend rick dearborn to do at forum and rick door totally did that bro and no one ever did some mm-hmm steph who recently listed a one hundred square foot farm in a financial disclosure form so he could tell his constituents that he's a real way former they're doing. I'm sorry did you say mu new as in devon news with yes stephanie need devin nunes new farm on his financial disclosure forms if you recall nunez was taken to task by democrats for putting farmer next to his name on the ballot because he hadn't seen a farm arm in like two decades so this week. I guess to silence his critics. He listed that he now is the proud owner of a farm but the trouble is it's worth less than fifteen eighteen thousand dollars. Make zero profit produces nothing in his less than one hundred square feet. I said it on the pod with tony roberts new york comes is back pain muller to go news. I have cow. Can you milk my can you can you devon. It looks like given to right. I could see that yeah. Milk me if he wants to make a profit is grow one. We plan on that little square. Yeah like probably just got that so he can have like a cover up for the kickbacks. He's getting just call them subsidies for sure what is going to do. I bet you anything lifer lifer farm subsidy but my hundred square foot farm cows and like tiny chickens. It's i think they they called it such as tiny farm. It's stonehenge in spinal tap. That's what you do on the napkin a boy. It's like this big. It's just sitting indian style with one of those school. The house is that was my favorite favorite game. I love that toy to jill. Lisa prosecutors have told judge emmet sullivan. They are ready to move forward with sentencing sentencing michael flynn. Yes yay that guy lawyers told emmet it sullivan friday. They're ready to sentence in either late october or early november but flynn's new lawyers say they're nowhere near ready for sentencing and this is interesting sydney powell. All mitch creeps on a mission crazy bitch. She says they need to wait until berman. Who's handpicked by trump doing the investigation into the investigation. We need to wait until he's done to see what he comes up with. Almost as if trump is engineering a fake investigation to conclude that flynn was improperly investigated before he's even sentenced synced sydney pal also said that she still hasn't been able to review classified information regarding the recordings of the phone calls between flynn kislyak along with other documents. She didn't specify but says the government hasn't given the clearance she needs to review. These things prosecutors have told judge sullivan. There's nothing to fuck and review. That's classified. There's no relevant classified classified evidence in this case and it seems to me that pal is looking into kislyak calls and trying to prove flynn's innocence but he's actually being charged with none of that. He's being charged with lying to the f._b._i. By having the calls in the first place and he pleaded guilty to that and he hasn't withdrawn his guilty plea but the government says he's done cooperating. We're ready to sentence him. They even even pulled him off the b._g._n. Key on trial changing him from cooperating witness to an unindicted co-conspirator so i hope sullivan takes the prosecutors sentencing recommendation though berman investigation report into the investigation is due out before the recommended sentencing timeframe so we'll see what happens a status hearing has been scheduled for september tenth the damn it takes time to do a full one eighty turn. You know that's what they should because that's what he's doing effectively right now powell the just. I imagine that's that takes a lot of coordination to do that right. Pop quiz quiz everybody pop quiz who said arguably arguably you sold your country out to do do do do eleven yeah are. Are you sure you want to land that day him right initially arguably. You sold your country out. They also ask the prosecutors if they looked into treason did you ah pointed to the flag and the flag was like yeah. Fuck you flynn. Were were that and then trump hug. It and we all freaked out trauma. Grab the flag by the pussy. It's gross yeah very aggressive. Cat cat is the pussy of the flag. The best ross is what it's called punch lotta options there. I think it's between the tenth and eleventh strike. I was gonna say. I was gonna pick a star. I'm surprised that's not in the flag. Code something about you yeah yeah all the misogyny in american history. I think they'd find a pussy on the the flag code does she'll never touch anything beneath it so i'm not sure how trump can touch it at all except the posting pulsa up the flag. That's one of those you like that doing scared and action yes recently the house ways and means committee filed a motion for summary judgment in their lawsuit to get trump's tax returns from the treasury and the i._r._s. Did the judge approve or deny this motion <hes> they denied it. Yes this motherfucker. Mcfadden dick a little angry. That's a legal term so the judge denied the motion saying it may be appropriate to expedite this matter but not now what what that's what expedite means you fuck face. Time is linear amazon prime said yeah yeah we'll do it now. I wouldn't be expedited. According to my wormhole watch so the committee has not justified its request apparently to bypass the motion to dismiss and they can't skip ahead to the summary judgment indeed by the time the summary judgment is appropriate. This case might look very different. The judge says there may be new case law. New facts and new parties really new parties. We don't we it's this is so dumb. These factors also counsel for denying the committee's motion for summary judgment now to allow it to refile based on the latest legal and factual landscape rather than holding the current motion in advance man. The judge also said that trump is planning on filing a motion to dismissed the entire lawsuit that will raise significant threshold issues about the court's authority to resolve such an interbranch conflict and further the requirement of court to assure itself itself if its jurisdiction to hear a case before proceeding to the merits is inflexible and without exception and then he cited some dumb case so the court wants to hear trump's motion to dismiss before it makes a judgment. I think these are bullshit excuses because the committee will clearly win on the merits. It's an obvious case and i find it curious. This is a judge by the way that was appointed by trump after serving irving on the trump transition team yet did not recuse himself from this case sketch arna right. There's a snake yeah. I'm going to expedite this into the next century or until the delorean arrive at the clock tower with michael j. fox where we're going. We don't need this is bullshit. I call aside from him sounding sketchy most definitely. Do you think it's possible that he's like. I just need to hear his motion. Just so each shuts up when we do this i mean it's i don't think it's a setback the maritz maritz and this is an open enclosed k. open and shut case but if he does somehow find in favor of or doesn't kick it back to the lower court then i'll be like you need to recuse yourself and go die right but but if but if it goes as the democrats wanted to go and as it probably is going to go and probably should go then trump is going to come out if he was if they team wasn't allowed to come out and file that motion and that actually be considered at all that he would just complain about that constantly and have a reason to de legitimize what they do he would. I don't think that the lawyers for the house committee house ways and means would have asked for a summary decision if they didn't think that it would hold up yeah even under trump's like trump's going to why exactly i think it's going to hold up but just in the effort to get into shut up for five seconds uh-huh. Maybe they're thinking just let him fucking yeah. He might even remember what it was like work with them on the transition team. It'd be like i just gotta. Shut this fucker for five minutes and maybe maybe who knows why the most. Let's play drop on. My show is shut the fuck up. Donny shut the fuck up for five minutes. Can i ask a quick question. I know how not getting off off track but do you think democrats are on the right path legally with all of this going towards impeachment and what we need tax returns deutsche bank all of it yes i would have liked to we've seen an impeachment. Inquiry opened sooner so that it could have been expedited faster. I think they're slow rolling it so that it politically happens right in the middle mm italy election season and i don't think that it's correct to do anything like that for political reasons but i i think you're going to find out the only way to remove movement is by voting him out in less we see this deutchebanks shit and he got some co signers like derek pasta and we find out that the i don't know justin kennedy signed off autumn autumn we could see republicans flipping until like sarah kenzi or says the contours of the lawrence o'donnell story. We are true. They are yeah they are. I agree with you now. I have a question for you. Who's lawyers met with the u._s. attorney in d._c. Jessie liu and end the deputy attorney general jeffrey rosen this week indicating. He might be indicted for lack of candor. I was on vacation drinking with my mom watching fox news till i got here so i'm going to do for hot former and over to julie's okay. I'm gonna do a lifeline from the audience there. You have it wrong. No i'm kidding yeah. I actually reached out to him and he has a message passage for you because i was like do don't make a deal. I started my legal advice right the second former acting director of the f._b._i. Mccabe i'm like look. I know what they're trying to do. They're trying to get you to drop your lawsuit for wrongful termination. Don't make could deal dude stand strong. You got a good case. Got a good case in both things and i'm like should i explain why i think he has a good case or does he think i'm full of shit and he ah he emailed me back. We chat he's married a._g. Did you tell them you were a nigerian. Prince says hey jill no. She's a sweetheart too he says a._g. To you and your listeners and your fans you're awesome understand one thing. There will be no deal if i am charged. If i am charged title fight i have done nothing wrong and i will fight forever. I can't tell you how much it means to jilin to have your support report thieving whore south you home wrecking husband stealing or but mckenzie i'm getting he says your analysis as always is spot on keeping your thoughts we need it and then he says things are going to get worse before they get better aw for all of us but we will prevail. I love that in there and they're great. They're awesome. They're incredible. People really are and i i stand by my consensus husband thieving yeah so we still got time. It's a long show adam. Savage isn't even up here. You had that as long as hamilton yeah now. That was a long it was so good hamilton. Hamilton is awesome the a._g. And september is national life insurance awareness month and life insurance is something we actually all need to think about <hes>. Did you know that only forty eighty percent of americans have life insurance but getting life insurance doesn't have to be difficult or expensive anymore. Prices are the lowest they've ever been in two decades so now's the time and with policy genius. It's easy and convenient to get the right coverage. Policy genius is the best way to shop for life insurance online. You answer a few basic questions and within minutes you can compare quotes quotes from top insurers to find your best price and once you apply policy genius handles all the paperwork and it cuts through all the red tape so you don't have to they do all the heavy lifting and they don't just make life insurance easy they can help you with home auto and disability insurance too but if you need life insurance and you just haven't gotten around to it national life insurance awareness month is is a good time as any to get started so go to policy genius dot com get quotes and apply in minutes. You can do the whole thing on your phone right now. Policy genius the easy way to compare and buy life life insurance speaking of babe. Are you guys ready to play the fantasy indictment league aw so it is going to be cutting dick hand. It's going to be okay. Just calm down today jordan. You go first. Tom barrack dude hurry up every week. I'm going to say his name until it happens. It's going to happen and i feel terrible for this but mccabe. I don't even know how many points he's worth. Yeah i mean he's priceless in my heart right his voice in my hand but i feel i don't feel right about putting them on there. I love you but he's. I think you know what i'm gonna. Take pecker. Oh oh sure lisa yeah. I'm gonna go with jisr lane because what the fuck yeah. I know it's good lane or what we call. Her jisr lane right right works legitimate. I'm a strange land. I don't even understand and we're playing. It's okay it's okay. We're going to file through our fantasy. Indictment picks real quick and then. I want your thoughts on him. Jordan pig who we think is going to get arrested. Just kidding not arrested that was more before we are putting the big names on there like t._j. And stuff <hes> that didn't help explain anything because i guess it's pretty self explanatory the fancy diving league. It didn't warrant anything else. Okay yeah no. It's a fantasy gels what you're saying <hes> <hes> there's just more drama yeah we're kind of pessimism that trump inaugural dublin doubt all right. I'm gonna go with what are we guessing. Fantasy indictment leagues that we're doing okay navy. This isn't a diamond but i think don jr. is going to be the victim of one of those elephants elephants turning on him and killing him while before he shoots it which is kind of a fantasy indictment league. I think getting trampled by an elephant is an indictment of sorts. I feel like i feel like his rifles going to slip out of his hand. 'cause it was fucking hair. Gel aww does he knows type of do that. We'll just have pictures on elephants all over. I'm gonna go with braiding elliott brady lisa yeah. I'm gonna go with bookend underwear. Dude alan dershowitz yeah underwear nude underwear on. I kept my underwear close to his mind. Okay no. I'm not gonna lie went to mexico and i had a negative massage but it was above board. I feel like there are places where you do it in his normal but jeffrey epstein's house was not not one of those places to have to say. I kept my underwear on jeffrey epstein's house. That's problematic mexico though great place i recommend it highly. Eh short dude you got. Did you say you didn't say am. I right not yet. Okay sweep to that. I'm gonna take already did that. I think george nader is going to be brought up on more child trafficking so and let's see i will do brady already. Oh dammit similar gross reasons yeah. I was thinking i say eric is gonna fall under the same fucking elephant because aziza dumb fuck with the same amount of hair gel air-traffic yeah yeah he's. He's always on the heels trying to be cool. I'm going to go with the assistant of trump's that just left the one that said the comments about tiffany. What's her name. What's your house. That's an interesting name. However you spell that russia house nice yeah. I'm curious what she knows. Yeah sure gets just because she works closely with hammond. They might try the immunity thing but they'll still like subpoena her in the mail rejected and then she might come back later so i'm hoping like who picks they'll bring her back. Hoe pigs. That's an interesting jordan. <hes> soriano soya's soya's good one. I'm going to go with the ball cough. Remind me who that is again. Inaugural bitch twenty million dollars milanez yeah stephanie. She was the one who said we're gonna get audited scary. Yeah i think hope picks is gonna flip because they're gonna take her flat iron and also her brow phil person her flat iron and melissa is not going to fucking fucking be able to handle this. This is not an orange is the new black bitch man julius. Yes <hes> <hes>. Who did i just have in my oh. This is a throwback eric. Prince nice back to boom and <music> on zip won't keep okay sorry. I'm old blackwater. Who's the book depot was having a little black aw back news time limit jordan. You guys have a spotify page. That'd be amazing appello sexy liberal band. They're like grandma time. Go back to the home like a mellow pussy ryan. I liked that blue grass. A grass pussy. Riot got one more pick for a pussy riot whoever's up for tonight services. I will do a he. I was gonna say rando. Yeah gore or just got specific that i was gonna say ballsy. Oh ooh that pussy go yeah yeah. We're re changing the name more people that are co-conspirators epstein. If you can name any of them you can have album okay. She's a lean maxwell. Yeah we got her. We're talking about it and made lieutenant there keller groff. Yes the con- robson listen or something like that man. It's like the y._m._c._a. To cameras malfunctioning that seems plausible. I'm gonna actually go with groff. That's who i'm gonna go interesting. Okay julius final. Yes okay now. I want to go with that because my favorite power the creator album but i will say no one knows how the creator and here do they. Oh okay okay. I just i showed my age so i will go with honestly whoever was around around for those shrieks. The person who reported the shrieks from epstein sell morning he died. I don't know who that is. I couldn't find the source n._b._c. but they did like put it out. There think that'd be a random arango related to epstein but not ebor because that's a different that's his driver. I know that you actually have a driver. I wanna i wanna see who else might pop up. I just find epstein prison. Rando there you go a prison random thinks she's implying what she's implying a._g. It was dish. She wrote was it murder. It all comes full circle. We plan this. Can i do those poll here. Sorry out until about this before and here we go who does believe that. He was murdered interesting who murdered who thinks he committed suicide. People raised their hand. That's interesting. It's played participating. I was i was on the fence but when i found out that he wrote that will and hit all of his money in his trust two days before the apparent died by suicide that was like the big fuck you to his victims and i feel like he's more involved in two cameras malfunction. How did lack of cameras malfunction yeah. It's murder uh sadly we will never find out because william baugh for now. I'm not giving up forty years from now. Another reason devotes a strath. No we don't vote for attorney attorney general but we definitely vote for the president who picks the attorney general and if we get his fucking ass out of the department of justice we could restored the word justice this to the department of justice. I don't know if it's ever really been justice but i see what you're saying. That's how we play the fantasy indictment league and now it's time for the interview and i couldn't be more excited about our guest today self-described obsessive maker of things host discoveries savage builds author and former co host of mythbusters. Please welcome adam savage. Take all of our guests pick their own walkup. Music wants you to know and that was perfect. Thank you suggesting that we've had fun wins to when we had a ushering gaba on former f._b._i. Counterintelligence she came up to somebody's watching me. You buy rockwell and me. Yes michael jackson on the core. She's he's like paranoid is an f._b._i. Agent is what it was about richard painter who wrote the book on government ethics you know reduce need to impeach him when we had him and his guests in minneapolis amazing dude he came up to policy of truth oral textbook audience so good and renato mariotti came up to what was it was either breaking the law. No i fought the law and the law won. I would love to see a podcast. Ask just about like political activists favorite music laker political like keeps. You still walk up going before they protest within the cute. Little picket son's yeah. I just want to do it. My many projects yeah. I'll get around all right so the main reason that i thought that you would be a perfect fit for this other than being a fucking gem in this town. A treasure is because i feel like you and bob mueller might have a similar approach to projects. I've watched your ten talk on your build of the replica of the maltese falcon and not only was i amazed by your attention to detail but your investigative techniques as well and not only would you find the correct details but you would spend time ruling out any any incorrect details and follow each thread to its conclusion today. Everything was tied up a not before you move forward and i spoke briefly before tonight and i think we agree with parallels. Regarding muller's work product muller report except for one glaring difference in your pursuit of the perfect maltese falcon. I felt like the goal was to have a fucking falcon at the end of it a conclusion right and i think that that's what you were saying bothered you most about about what muller there's no ending. He didn't have an ending okay well. I'm not sure the point of my exercise is to is the end. No no there isn't end well. There will be if there was a falcon as part of the process. That will be another one. There might be another one after that but there is this aspect to what i find pleasurable is the attack on something incredibly complex and pudding of all those parts of that complexity into my head until they start to make sense and then there's a certain point at which i hold the whole thing in my head and that's when it's really a deeply pleasurable experience like on the maltese falcon. I've now sculpted it twice each time. It took me about two weeks but there's literally not a feather. There's not a tiny piece of the topology that doesn't that isn't in here somewhere and that's what i seek and we were talking about like. That's exactly what those guys we're doing. I can't even imagine the depth of the complexity of what they were of what they were managing but i also feel like they're getting similar kinds of pleasure that i we do out of the same exercise. I'm sure there's some late night thing that i've found the receipt and somebody goes oh right there sculpting. They're kinda. Sculpting out justice right like all things implanted in their brain dude i got boehner justice boehner's voting ah but to be able to hold the maltese falcon it's to me like the idea that we really wish that maybe muller would have said yeah that amounts to obstruction of justice but this is the thing i found most surprising about muller's nerd safe-space burn a hey guilty proudly guilty by the way i'm gonna make that exact noise and we're like we found the two russian oligarchs. It's sounded exactly what the other cave people said to the first guy with fire fire nerd eat my shorts thermonuclear war. It sounds like a gary larson cartoon just in my hand so i watched touched muller testify and i thought as motherfucker is never going to say crime. He has never but it's because in his what i feel is an antiquated idea of justice. He's holding to an ideal. I might not agree with it. But at least i can z. Which is a lot more than i can save or any other conservatives quote unquote currently running this shit show and the i could see myself getting into a fine political discussion with with muller and we might not agree on anything but at least it would be intellectually stimulating because there would be thought fought behind it rather than venality and i don't know just a desire to be a bunch of birds yeah so so i did this video wpro google muller. She wrote pizza. You'll be able to find you take a pizza cut it into fifteen slices which was hard by the way and we talk about the mole report which is five hundred pages but it's really such a narrow scope right when it's so meaty and so indepth but it was a really very narrow scope so narrow in fact he handed off fifteen of investigations fourteen investigations plus his fifteen other total all investigations to other agencies or mostly the f._b._i. And department of justice so that's the pizza and then there's twenty to thirty congressional investigations all with their own slices of pizza and i've got these pizza boxes stacked up over here and then you pay back and there's forty pizza boxes over here which is the potential counterintelligence investigation and all the muller report shows us in his entire testimony is one bite of one slice of pizza because the miller report is just a summary of hundreds of thousands of pieces of information and so that's kind of the scope of this and i wanted to ask you just because of watching ted talks and watching your builds how do you process and manage so much information as it comes into your brain. I mean i get you picture it all in there at once and you're like you understand. I work with many many more smaller her and trivial pieces of information but i think the process is similar and it was actually one of the most rewarding things about doing mythbusters which was every week every new episode a a i had to imbibe and understand information from a disciplined. I didn't formerly know about it might be learning about the viscosity of liquids switch to be a science called tra- balaji for that was different for biology and the thing was that was interesting interesting about doing that was i would read read read read read and sometimes i would ask to get a i would ask my crew to get a professor somebody online on the phone that i could speak to but with every one of these processes so i go in and studied viscosity and i called i found out there was an international association of logistics. There's a president his phone number is right there so i called him the old george carlin joke. He's like any activity engaged in by more than four people. This country's got a fucking magazine. Agassi devoted totally totally. Oh i love it so hurry magazines. His car is pussy magnet for sure psyching skeet shooting backpacking join so i called the president of the international association of trump and i said do you have an analog. Wait for me to to show oh the audience the viscosity of your fluid. I was thinking it could be like a cone with a specific size hole and i time how long the liquid comes out and he got what i can only describe as incredibly incredibly angry and he didn't yell at me but i was frustrating him when we unpacked it. I did the unpacking uh it turned out that my question was not even wrong. That viscosity is another value that you can ascribe to a liquid. It is a description of a relationship between that liquid quitting its environment and its temperature and the other things adjacent to it and this is actually turns out to be true of most of science that it's not about absolute values. It's about these relationships apps but what i learned from that was a brand new structure for the episode that we were making and so this is a long story of basically explicatives when i take information putting it in my head and really start gathering to understand it and i keep following the lines that are interesting to me at a certain point. Some little male tag goes was off in my head and goes and my head says what about this thing i haven't read about and in general i found that when i feel that question it turns not that i have something to contribute at that point because all of a sudden i now have a point of view. It's like you're picking up the torch and you're doing something with it. Yeah yeah yeah and it simply look. Expertise is nothing but someone that knows more about one inventory than you do. Totally we are colors castenada. I mean he may be charlotte charlotte but it's wonderful allegory castaneda's teacher done one said we are beings of inventory which i find super devastating and also invigorating trading have you ever oh sorry when he did his thing where he went to the cave and went through as inventory and talking yeah exactly and don't don't you feel like donald trump's. Administration is the death of expertise. Oh sure not only the death but like the drowning in a toilet death. Yes laugh drowning. Tony soprano death of experts scraping misogyny has a hand in this too. I've noticed because i i i am actually an expert in a couple of things not proudly walking around like i know about nuclear reactors but i i am an expert in some things but there's a lot of times times where i don't get treated as an expert. I don't know if it's because i'm a female or identifies woman but i do get condescended to quite a bit bit about things that i'm actually an expert in the end is real easy is more condescending or is it patronizing or do you not know the difference my god can i steal that that should be a bumper sticker. Probably already is but yeah. I need a shirt that says that yes yes. Misogyny imagine would be a part of that and then even speaking back to what you were saying though is just about the idea of everything everything that we're an expert about. It's just information that's already been out there and we're taking it and just adding this new spin like a comic takes exit setup. That's been done a thousand times. They'll add their own punchline. It and it's a brand new joe that same thing applies imagine in every field. I was radicalized by trump by reading noam chomsky and one of the things i loved about chomsky's as a scientist in addition to being a political activist he says don't take my word for it. Go do the counting of the new york times column inches yourself. I made these numbers but you could come up with your own graph. You dealt windmill cancer. Is that what you're saying just a a little bit. Unfortunately it doesn't always work because i've tried. I've tried this myself. I mean look <hes> yes. I do a whole miller podcast. Don't take my word for it. Go read the miller report or go. Oh look at the court documents this information from court doctors bullshit fake news you know and then you're right yeah. They scoff yeah they they. They should do their own research and they'd probably feel better. Some of them think they do do their own research but it's like the religion thing if you're not looking at different sources and you're getting different perspectives. You're not gonna get the truth but i think this is plausible deniability. I think they don't want to know the true. No no it doesn't matter to them yeah right well. It forces them to go back and restructure. They've been thinking about everything this whole time which honestly just sounds like a lot of words people do it. They don't want to do it but you're right. It's a lot of work but anything that's worth doing is usually a lotta work. Read that trump's. I read chomsky when i was eighteen inches and it's only this last year that i've realized the skills of folded from my new york times is a pot of boiling water and we're all frogs. I've read some questionable. The articles they have a mixed bag of reporters is what is such a generous way to put it. Actually i will say that. Reporters are buying large the best in the world. They're up edge page that has shitting the bed every day yeah. They sat on friends this week. What was that about you hear that destroyed friends. Somebody wrote an op ed. I think in the new york times totally right one of those papers failing talk about how friends actually sucks okay well. Thanks marketing issues right also a different podcasts cats but yeah friends is fine. I just think that's a good point to how they're op-ed or sometimes garbage point bedbug recently re watching friends in the early seasons of friends are hugely problematic. Every episode has gay panic plot. I think you're right. It's an easy target and i'll be honest. I haven't even seen most of friends. I was just surprised that that was an op ed in the new york times. That was mostly my thing but yeah you're right. They're just better the things you can probably do with that source of power and we did actually have a challenge on our podcast because we're talk about eighty s movies. Oh they're bad with the fad active trading places yes yes or a long duk dong all of john hughes movies. No louis but you know be true at the end of the administration is that it was the dukes dukes. Take take my girlfriend home. She's drunk. Do what you want with just sixteen candles the nerve crazy oh the panty raid yeah oh and the vote to eh meek you. That's a rate yeah. That's totally a rayleigh. Oh seriously no darth rate. I love when someone described. Dr joe and mika is when metoo works out. That's kinda hilarious. I feel so bad joel good morning joe his they're air. Mary sue i feel yelling at me. In the morning doesn't trading places some up the entire republican party like your brothers having a heart attack fuck him turn those machines back on that's my money completely and when donald michie says the n. word in the bathroom at the end. It is freshly shocking dan. It's amazing every time every time so we challenged our listeners. Tell give me a clean eighties movie. Give me a clean eighties movie. No one's come up with one yeah. Somebody came close with back to the future but the packer would thing and the reefer addicts. I kissed his mom. I think say anything is pretty zoo. Problematic aspect of say anything boy dopplers good dude lloyd doppler is a good all of us outside barack obama's house right now with the boombox. See the doorway mugs about that with your tax here. You're like the obama tasks here so a silicon valley billionaire threw a party here in the city a few years ago and it was an eighties is themed party and i went as lloyd dabbler. I will say as a player my lord. My lloyd doppler costume killed old accepted. Everyone else went for huge shoulders and big hair so at the party. I was literally lloyd dabbler. I didn't last long and actually i left and i ran into somebody who was at the party a few days later and they were like you left early. Did you leave before back and i was like you're kidding. Me no performed for one hundred people. That's crazy julie's after the show to this show up to and then he just goes and does this man yeah. It's a mash up before we leave barack obama in your life the he'll he aw who's going to prison eric grinchey overlap will keep on rolling mississippi. They just let man man fuck it. Let's just do a deep called holdback. I appreciate the full spectrum callback. I'd one other question for you. I wanted to ask you about what i've been perceiving and i've always thought trump was bat shit crazy but it seems really specifically getting more pointed in the past month or so it just really declining mental fitness. Have you noticed this. Is it me it's hard for me to trust anything these days because i so want him to deteriorate i so wish deterioration upon him but i wish just enough deterioration that he recognizes it's happening. I want him to suffer her. He needs i. I just want cut. Look what i really mean. I don't wish suffering unspecific human beings but i want there to be karma in this was such an angelic smile. I want him to be giving like a quick interview to to the news reporters in front of a helicopter and then just like shit his pants. Yes perfect imagine that shits his pants but doesn't find out about it until it's on the front page of the new york times the next day. No i also ahead again if i think the same thing like. Why is there any another story than he is clearly insane. Sweating an adult role like that is just an i like atarot but he's ruining no oh i bet they. I also think they have some special. Presidential adderall yeah very special drops drip is we will add called adderall. We're all forty-five seriously our history a._g. Asks not what you can do for your country right yeah anyway andy. We have nothing to fear but fear itself. I am the chosen one. There's literally rewriting historical quotes like the one from the statue of liberty yeah yeah it's right that his spokesman explained that that meant for white people <hes> they're telling you how they i really feel like we're in denial because we're like they can't be that bad. Adderall thoughts adderall forty five when you're white power needs a little blue powder nice my friend my friend. Tom says that adderall is a very dangerous drug. That should <unk> only be taken recreationally yeah. It's more having a you're poor. You're tired you're masses or as malani would say can stand does go to the runway and the be the best words to live by and so if you go to iowa dude food malania justin trudeau moment. Oh oh it's hot yeah. I never never seen her. Look so happy. I feel bad about encouraging infidelity but in this case it's just divorce them right. Like what does he have on her like why whoa. What does she have on him. That's interesting. I will sox's bouteine out of you and tells you dry. It's really interesting. Don't ruin petite for me. That would be a tragedy at the <hes> putin putin to the protein. I will sox's boutin out of you. Answer chesterfield chesterfield until you are dry smell. You wanna be a b- best what's boot. I like this dude. That's leaving. Have you bought something online only to find out later that you missed a really great discount. We'll never miss a great deal again with honey. Honey is a free browser add on that finds the best deals online and coupon codes and magically applies them and they always find the biggest discounts available on the internet when you check out it does it automatically atakli they find the discount across more than thirty seven thousand sites including amazon sephora best buy nordstrom and more to shop like normal and honey. Does the rest for you. Honey members have saved over eight hundred million with over ten million members that save an average of twenty eight dollars and sixty one cents. They have over one hundred thousand five star ratings on the google chrome store and time magazine calls honey basically free money not bad for something. That's totally free and takes just two clicks to install. I've been using honey for a really long time and was super super happy to advertise them when they came our way. I love this app. <hes> our creative director turned turned me onto it a while ago and it's been a huge money saver for my family. I was happy to partner with them because i use it and i know it works plus. It's free and it's automatic just got a new hairdryer. Actually travelling. I saved almost eight bucks which was pretty much double the best coupon code. I could find myself so it does it automatically for me. I have to shop with confidence and there's no reason not to use unless you hate saving money it's free and fast to install like like i said two clicks and it allows you to shop with confidence so get honey free at join honey dot com slash a._g. That's join honey dot com slash eiji penny the smartest shopping assistant that saves you time and money when you're shopping online all right. Here's here's what we're going to do now. We've got a about fifteen twenty minutes and we have a microphone and we can answer. Probably i would say ten. Maybe maybe ten questions so so if you want ask any question or all of us a question jump right here in line about ten deep and then and then go to the bars. I have a drink yeah. Oh the music is nine. Questions sets the mood right. This is new <hes>. This is definitely a new song china this j thin. I like oh. We've gotta go in nineteen eighty five supercomputer. She's like when does it end and got ed. I saw this tour at madison square garden. All my uh-huh uh-huh you could almost do a congo to actually that's nice intermission thank you that was interesting. Dan chris definitely. We all share that moment together okay hello. How are you hi. Hello is this on okay so weirdly. Robert mueller was here. I saw him on tuesday. I swear swear to god at. I wondered if it was like a weird thing. I was with a friend who is actually a republican and she agreed that it was robert robert muller. We made up a story of where he was probably going. Who's at perry's for about twenty minutes. He had a soda drink. His wife did not have with an with with him on with with them. That's how we confirm that. I was not apparently anxious things too many podcast app for that what he muller watch seriously dude bother you here so that's what i wanna do you have. Does anyone have any idea what he was doing. Here are super space beans or anything and i'll fucking break. You know yeah or to convince pelosi. Get her shit together. That's amazing and maybe he has a t-shirt. I'm not sure how much longer my liver can take donald trump. Maybe he was here in wine country. He used to live here. Okay yeah yeah. I take your question. Thank you so much for that. Ah yes thank you so in the intro cheers show part of it. Is the audio clip from clue. Communism is a red inhering world's profession. I guess i'm just curious like i think it lands with people different ways in what is the creative process behind like why that was put in there yeah so a edgy quick. This is cody who is a good friend of mine from college. Andy who is another person who's also hear from great friend shadow yeah so thank you for coming. Thank you guys. I was just gonna say. I'm definitely she's going to go into it for sure because it was her idea but when she told me to make the clip she specifically said put glue in there no matter what else you put in there make should the clue references in there so all the other clips were unplanned in terms of like the chronological order of it. Some people think it was all planned but that one in particular you want it so i'm also curious. I never really a new wine. I like it. I miss scarlett is awesome second of all a lot of times when we talk about the russian investigation education people are like oh mccarthyism. You're you and you hate russians. You're against russians and i would be like no. This isn't about communism at all. This is about way different kinds of corruption and so that just fits so perfectly and also at like the oldest profession. I'm a capitalist. She's a whore and that's what i think. Republicans are and not the good times because faulk foster susta but you know and i just felt it would just fit perfectly with capitalist republican assholes who are trying to steer you away from what the real problem with russia is some people thought it with a stormy daniels reference to they thought that was like the feminist spin on it but that could just be like a part of a now like i a lot of so much with it was just like a coincidental like thing like all the other clips being so relevant but when we we looked him up it was just like oh that seems like it might be important you know like but now they're all like super important clips and then that one in particularly resonated with people with the stormy daniels thing which also we didn't know what happened and so it was just like a happy coincidence yeah but i liked that. That was your idea to about it. You do such a good job on that usually so i go round and it's like hey yeah totally and thank you cody mice a._g. I have friends from college to the cemetery. I love mythbusters by the way thank you. Hi hi. I'm i'm wondering if you could talk about the origin story of muller. She wrote like you've talked about how you've all been comics san diego but what specifically drew you three together yeah. I can tell you exactly what happened. I was watching it was probably i guess in october few months. After muller had i've been appointed they were re-showing an old. I think two thousand thirteen or two thousand and six one of those two years i can't remember which one documentary from m._s._n._b._c. called all all the president's men revisited and it was a documentary and interview style documentary with matto and matthews and o'donnell and they were talking about the watergate investigation gatien because it was the anniversary of watergate when they made that documentary and i remember seeing it and it clicked in my head. I said holy shit in twenty or thirty years. They're going to making a documentary about the muller investigation and i want to get in on that shit and because i i felt in my bones and in my heart of hearts that this is probably the most massive historical investigation in history of our country it is going to test and is still is testing to bounds or strength of our justice system whether that can hold up or not and so i also decided that i wanted to do it from a female perspective because i think that women have a different view of justice ah i think we've you justice with the more empathetic and sympathetic i and and justice is depicted as a woman and there's reasons for that and so as has liberty and so i really wanted to be from female or people who identifies female perspective and i also wanted to be funny because if we don't laugh our way through this we will cry so they're just they're just happened to be two of the best working female comedians and san diego that i worked with before so i called them up. Thank you gene and that week. Rick gates and paul manafort were indicted and i said we have to do it this week. We have to start it this way. I had two weeks to learn how to edit. It basically few days not two weeks. That would have been better but no this was. It was like you were so ready. You you saw the whole vision and you knew it will be important and we were just like yeah. We're comics be on apologized but it's cool like the seeing the community. That's been bill everything. That's come from just the idea of like oh. I wanna be a part of this. Here's how here's how i do things to a little maybe contradictory but sort of the same in different ways and i have a tattoo of this a blackbird blackbird on my on my leg with mechanical wings and it's a ray bradbury quote who said we have to jump off cliffs and build our wings on the way down and that's pretty much how i live my life so i said they're indicted you. You podcast now and we did it that week at one weekend yeah. If my memory is correct correct. We were only supposed to be guests on that for show and i was going to be a co host but i don't think that it doesn't even make a difference ended up being the perfect combination but yeah. I think you're going to be a guess. Eh chemistry which is like smurfit honestly responded to a facebook post put out saying co host and someone and do tech and i was like i'll learn learn how to do those things yeah and i i really appreciate that. Opportunity is like i i love. You definitely took off more than they were expecting it to this. This is this is what can i say. I don't know if i was in the running but i live in l._a. And there was no one available to drive miss daisy and i think it worked out perfectly because i have these girls. There's this thing when you're young and you think that you're embarking on a project when you're young and you think all i need is all the right information and then i can proceed and when you're older you know you never have enough information to proceed. No you just us move for never ready. Never do it when you have the courage to do. It and my dad passed away a long time ago. He taught me a very important important lesson in life. He says the the only things you'll regret at the end of your life or things you did not do and so. I've always been like well. Let's just do that shit and sometimes it works out sometimes. It doesn't think it worked out this time so thanks for the question thank you. I feel the same as you. The first time i heard this. I was like oh my god smart funny a potty mouth whores. I love them so much women after my own heart thanks we love you. Stephanie thank you. It's it's because of women like you so old. They've been doing it for so long. We're able to thank you for thanksgiving. Take your shoulders. Thank you for joining me. She wrote with the kripke per tonight. I couldn't help it. I got my mom this birthday card on it said i love going take the trip. We took to the majestic redwoods. It must have been so exciting when you planted them or something the insights so so when i started listening to the podcast there was like every week was really exciting all this new new information. That's come out. It would be like these guys are going to get indicted any week now. Just has to happen right but it just hasn't happened wondering how you keep your enthusiasm and and avoid descending into a state of perpetual nihilistic despair think we've been pretty good about reminding everybody see that the arc of the universe is long but it bends towards justice and justice the wheels of justice grind slow but they grind fine and that it just takes a long long fucking time and set up by the framers that way on purpose so that shit like this couldn't happen but i do think that you know we're in an age now where we take in so much more data and more information that we've ever would be able to take in in in previous generations lifetimes in just one day. We take in in more data so i think we're used to we need to get this done. Why isn't this done now. Yeah instant gratification. Hamilton didn't prepare for that. It's very new has got a real big bay but i i love history and i love plays but racially speaking cray <hes> okay. I will say this though i i truly believe that yeah the justice grind slowly in these things will work out i i. I just feel like we really have to hang on right. It's sad but these things they take takes so long that only looking back can we make sense have been right now. We're in a very fast pace time came along and just politically so if we make it past climate change then yeah we'll look back and we'll be like hey that was great. Can i just say sir that sometimes justice benz like my college boyfriend penis to the left. He had parent tightest lightest. You know what i'm saying. Sir and it's the last time i've seen a penis but it took a while but it bent to the left and we got there eventually. We'll allowed. They're together. Yeah i do feel like from a cognitive perspective personally. They're still news that comes out almost every day that add some detail or shift some perspective so it's not like we're sitting around kinda dislike with nothing to talk about so i think that helps to and then if there isn't a big news day then we get to go more into the actual actual details of coal implications or something or like back in history what this looked like in similar ways and how it just i guess deep things so so it's it's all. There's always something that keeps us busy for sure here. Thanks very much. Hello okay so so there are a lot of things going on with with a lot of things you know and i just see list. Could you be less general. Please yeah. I would like to ask a question and by talking to you and not ask you a question. Okay so there's there are a lot of story lines in the trump russia ship bird miasma. Which three do you think would make the best shakespearean tragedies let question i'm <hes> or you know which are the first three that come to mind. Probably more like epstein stuff comes to mind okay. That's that's not exactly trump russia so i'm just thinking explorer thinking yeah tricks yeah. The cohen payments stormy daniels daniels might be more like shakespearean right yeah like i don't know it just seems like very dramatic. Love i just love wasn't a part of you know but just the idea of the romance malania her take on that would be like. She hasn't said a word about it. You know this is some juicy shift so yeah. I wonder they didn't teach shakespearean. Stay at our u._s._c. theater sorry eric and john don jr. could be good. Comic relief like oh yeah diggers from like merit. It's hard to wait. That's actually what they are now right. They are phoney african almost yeah whatever is the biggest betrayal and all of these probably has yet to come. That'll be the big shakespearean plot whoever whoever gets stabbed with poison on the tip or something yeah that'd be the one united states when it's when deutchebanks stuff comes out and we all know all about yeah all of trump's ties to russia leaving putin with nothing to hold leverage over him so putin releases all the information he has on trump and everybody goes and goes uh-huh yeah yeah but you're right that play. I don't know if you're into that yeah. That's down show. That's the thing i don't know which one to right. Yeah i would say just start with all them and see which one gives you the most content it can go a lot of different places it. That's why would you the podcast fuck past. It's just there's so much to it. At least shakespearean plays when it comes back around you've learned something about the human condition and you walk away feeling like you've gained something bright right now with any of these shakespeare would've absolutely included tape scene out. Damn spot out. Thank you for that case you we got time for probably i would say three more questions. I just wanna thank stephanie for being here. She's fantastic. One of my big japan and i literally have nowhere else to be fair. No <hes> wow. I just wanna say what do you you think there are next potential. Candidate would be the beat this son of a b. We gotta get literally anyone else italy anybody. But what do you think has someone said on my radio show today. Joe biden with an open head wound on fire is better the donald and realistically. I mean who who's your top pick great. I i love. I love my elizabeth warren. I love my ah. I what i had quite a wardrobe choice tonight because i wasn't aware my women twenty twenty because fuck this shit t-shirt art trump gatt grabbed. My country spelled c. u. N. t. r. y. Which mrs martin sheen made me but i i just i the people are resonating with me or elizabeth warren and kamala harris. I will vote blue. No matter who i i think we are in a crisis wearing an existential crisis. We have to vote balloon no matter who we cannot do russia's work for them uh by dividing ourselves by four more years of this no. We can't take four fucking days. Do you understand my my liver. I wanna know who would you vote for someone that would just shut the fuck up for two minutes. Shut the fuck up. Stop tweeting. Stop being on t._v. In front of the helicopter with your goddamn slapping garfield anus lips just just shut the fuck all my god uh-huh yeah. I would like to outsource my rage stephanie. I'm his rage translator. That grew to do this because i can swear to shut up you cock fucking mother fucking go by god gas. Yes safe-space. I know right. Thank you for your question. Yeah thank you know and if we don't talk to you guys. I think we'll be hanging out after the show somewhere so yeah if we if we can chat now we'll make it happen but i'm sorry i just can't help but think what is it gonna take. What is it gonna take to get him out of. There obviously demented and i have this picture that he's like being babysat by his daughter anything sitters. I dunno some beauty contestant or something and he plants. It's a sloppy one on her. I don't even know that we'll get rid of it. No it's it's up to us. It's up to us like we've been saying. We are or the muller's we've been waiting for. We our own muller's. We have to take it into our own hands and we have to. We have to vote them out. I don't even think there's much. I can't even picture a scenario l. Even if we find out the deutsche bank documents show that he was co-signed by oligarchs. I don't think that would even flip the the senators the republican looking senators and because i was thinking for a while if he could if he defied a supreme court order like when he was gonna put citizenship question on the twenty two thousand census when the scope go to said told him not to go there but i thought if that doesn't if that one act of defying the supreme court order does not get the republicans in congress to turn on him nothing nothing ever will and i. I honestly don't even know that that will have to fuck with their money right like threaten their lively yeah what she can. We be democracy. Accuracy improv artists. You guys are improv. Is we have to be yes and right yes impeachment and vote him out yes and indict him after it gets out of office and then satan shoves his fiery hot tongue up his acid health yes. You may like you never know. I actually will say i've stopped. I've stopped the kind of tweeting of can you believe this asshole tweeting because we don't need. I don't need to pay more attention into these assholes. I pick attention to people who are part of the solution and promoting goes massacre wonderful. I also so i saw footage of him at a rally a few weeks ago and it was on fox news obviously and there was a he has a moment in his speech where he says something like you you we will be the elite whatever but he says the word elite and the crowd noticeably just like quiet and stops clapping because it's entirely antithetical nicole to his bullshit facade of being anti elite right so i think over time a few let's his true self. Come through like that and enough moments then maybe that will finally be enough to just be like oh actually maybe this guy is not who he said he was this whole time that i remember being young wants to the idealistic. Let's so important right but we outnumber those mother fuckers by quite a bit and we just we just have have to show up in numbers too big to manipulate. We're not only battling republicans. Battling russians were battling terrible the voter suppression i've ever seen voter. Depression is the biggest issue we have to. We have those cute the more of an uphill battle then then they do we just have to show up and show out and turn out and do it and get your friends to do it too. It's just it's the way right the light and the way yeah definitely that but so you don't think there's anything that he could ever do. There is none here i am. I'm shooting. Jimmy cost on fifth avenue wall. I am fucking bald eagle in the mouth and nancy reagan's corpses fleeting me. What do you think of that. I'd really becoming whole out of dossier on the bald eagle. He deserves no honestly on on full france full-frontal. I think sam be show. She said that if his base finds out that he's not really racist done like if he lets it slip and he actually it doesn't hey brown people are gonna be out of there yeah or like if you i don't know fuck in he would throughout his whole past supported democrats because they controlled a lot the stuff that he was trying to get through so i it's like your work with but then opportunities right now but i wonder if it's at all possible because i've talked to them and i'd say you what about this roy moore which is not trump at a similar just fucking ridiculous thing to support and they were like it's fine. If roy moore even did those things because the person who's running against is like a you know is anti abort pro pro. What am i trying to say. Here is <hes> pro-choice and and it's worth it for for some sort of cost benefit analysis so i feel like there's gotta be some amount of cost for them some amount of cost for them. I don't know if it's going to happen or if it can even get at that point. Even evangelical family have said that we the wolf. It's the bad guy. We don't care. How flawed lot. They're they're in. They're doing the lord's work and that is what we care about and so that's just how it's going to be no number of pool boys that jerry falwell could currently be fucking talking is what you're saying. I'm sorry one who'll men will thank you. I'm fortunately sometimes pool boy. <hes> yeah yeah well now. It's a fitness trainer to so all these news keeping them. He's stacking up anyway. Thank you for your question yeah. We you can still get these last two in its first of all you all fucking brock right. Do they walk into. Thank you for what you do any kind of set me up you talked about showing up and you talked about whether trump hates brown people and so. I want to know what you all are doing tomorrow at noon. Ooh nothing so r._a. Because there's demonstrations the last day of thirty days of actions to close the camps and to lobby gra s._f. Ice thirty cents avenue the new from noon to one pm. I will be wearing my women in two thousand twenty. This shit sure i'll be singing so come and be there and we love you. Where's that again. I'm sorry it can use thirty sansom street at washington okay if i if i guess there we go yeah. Thank you so much. Thank you very much six thirty sansom street at washington noon. We should go together. What might be that'd be the last question i just also want to say. Don't show up on hawthorne street. The address for isis actually sansone people who do show up there was oh thank you can meeting a._g. Is boris johnson to come tonight. Everybody thinks i have. I have better hair you say. Can you say this is marvelous okay. This is a director was you but also if anybody else wants time they'll be fantastic. You consistently say trust in the system nut. Maybe i'm missing a a trust in the system. Trust that justice will be done. Maybe i'm missing throat. Maybe it's because i'm english but i don't and i love to hear more about why you actually believe that at the end of this given the alleged probable illegality of president trump himself that he will be the imprisoned. I mean i think that would be the ideal outcome. Given the things that have gone on is the man who is i would say definitely a racist probably rapist quite possibly a paedophile and all the other things that he is engendered so that's all on you now h. E. basically boils down to this. If our justice system does not hold old are american experiment will have failed and i that's why while it might get worse behind everybody while it might get worse before it gets better. I think that we we not the department of justice. It's not the system itself. We will ensure that it works or will work. I want to add quickly. I personally would would never wanna live in a world where like we're like a civil war or something but i also feel like the american experiment was fucked from the start so maybe we can tweak you get in a way where it's like okay. There's some things that i totally think our great about it and then obviously others are very wrong. We have to address that there are fundamental flaws that if we just try to like fix it as is still won't help the people that are being oppressed correct and that's part of the beauty of the system is that it's amendable some amend it right. We need into and that's guy. That's us. No one's going to do that for us. I agree i can. I say real quick if you've listened to my show here on real talk a._m. Not done here in san francisco. Go on media. I got in trouble for saying cock on your radio and we have all the same people on a._g. We have jill wine banks watergate prosecutor laurence tribe harvard professor malcolm nance. I have and i gotta say they all say. The same thing you do is you that they are hopeful. You you know the lot. All of the legal experts have on all the and maybe we're just hopeful. Optimism we're happy clapping or whatever but we really believe in this american experiment firmament and that we will and i know we have to overcome russia and voter suppression racism general fucker yeah yeah page do this rat fuck general rat fuck. There's more of us than my favorite of them. We have to we have to flood the zone and we have take back these levers of power so that we can change all those things that we're talking about and we can do. This is right the bringing bourne. I believe children although few no no no not doing nope. Thank you for taking one more question anyone on the stage. Do you think joe walsh's announcement hurts or helps. Jolla dallas chances at reelection is a good question joe that everybody here that okay yeah basically do we think joe walsh's hurts hurts or helps. Trump's chances at reelection. Yes yeah i all i know is that when he announced it. I fell upset with myself that i did not. Let's see that coming and i wonder if any because he's been fucking lakers tweets all the time now ever since he's announced that he's running i don't anymore for which maybe is telling about how like my reaction to that question because it doesn't think he came from tea party republicanism so i can't imagine unless he's gonna come out and say all of those things that i was talking about before were insane and i've since come to see how that can manifest and how detrimentally awful awful that is. I will not promote those things didn't work but i don't think he's going to right so yeah. That's how dark things have gotten. Donald trump's america were like. I don't know maybe this deadbeat dad. Fatkin racist reality showed douche weasel will hurt the other reality shows racist douche weasel okay and i think it will actually hurt him in here's why because i think what could happen is what happened to democrats in two thousand sixteen. You've got a bunch of people who will want to vote for wall. Aw he won't get the nomination they'll be pissy about it and take their philosophical votes and go home and not show up to the polls and that will lose some trump votes the that's no way slim on anyone who he's gonna lean more into his tea party fundamental mental principles that are more marketable. I guess than than some of the shit trump does which is like an awful outcome as well so is there any chance snooky or the situation or running yeah yeah anyone else who's out there slammed trump on a daily basis fine have added. I don't give a shit. Bird shit at another shit. Again would be adrain. I've really i'm really pleased with a number of times. Shit bird has been set on stage tonight. It's one of my favorite little time so many shippers. I heard it l._s. Tonight it's been like that. We need to bring back shit to shit. It's good all right guys. Thank you so much for your question the one last thing before we get out of here and i just wanna do this with you. Guys real quick all right so i want you guys over here. You're section one. You guys are the middle. You guys are over here on the right and here's what we're going to do. I need you to sing this for me. <hes> <hes> <hes> <hes> <hes> <hes> <music> keep going cloud of <hes> <music>. Do we have balcony people all right now. I did you guys to go on the counter three one two three beautiful all right. We gotta go soprano up there. Guys yeah yeah yeah yeah. Who's it going to be. Oh who's this week yeah. Trump is five five. We're also but i feel like we need this morale. It used to be manafort see and then we had this whole ringtone because i have friends who voices of our city choir choir which choir of homeless people in san diego recorded a four part. You fucked harmony for us. It's called manafort is dot dot dot. You can get it it and all of the proceeds for that ringtone go toward voices of our city choir so we're gonna do trump today and we're going to do and then you just look. You'll you'll don't know what to do and it's it's going to be fun so ready on account theory. <hes> trump is a aw aw you. You guys are awesome. I've been a._g. Eventually dongfan. I've been jordan kobe. Thank you to steph miller. Thank you salvage. This is here's marcy. Wrote is producing engineered by a._g. With edin logo designed by theresa johnson from in consultant social media manager is surly steiner eric and our subscriber and communications director jordan coburn fact checking and research by a._g. And research assistance budget lisa johnson jordan coburn our merchandising managers or sara lee steiner owner and sarah hershberg valencia our web design and branding are by joel reader with moxy design studios and our website is militia wrote dot com.

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Full Show (Rams prevail, Browns fall further, MJ's GOAT opinion, Saints win)

Skip and Shannon: Undisputed

1:54:39 hr | 2 years ago

Full Show (Rams prevail, Browns fall further, MJ's GOAT opinion, Saints win)

"Welcome to the undisputed podcast. I'm your host. Johnny taft. This podcast is the full show. From today's episode of undisputed from start to finish. They've got a busy slate. So skip Shannon. Let's get to it. Welcome to unsuited live from Johnny dabbed here. We skip Bayless Shannon, Sharpe pretty festive around here. Good morning guys. A little scary behind me but figures out later Bogota's calls came out of pocket. Mine. Oh, good. Are you Jimmy? I'm good. How are you? Are you Shannon? If you're the expression whistling through the graveyard. That's what you do everyday on this show, you whistle to your own graveyard. It's okay. In other words, no one here. Why did you have some way to frame this? He always be nice on a Monday morning. I thought that framed everything about undisputed that summed it up you better come prepared because he's whistling to the graveyard well done they come. We have a lot packed show and get this Kip is not happy with Michael Jordan, which really then we've got Shannon. You might be losing faith in first cousins. But we are going to start with Aaron Rodgers and the Packers. They nearly pulled off a huge upset against the undefeated Rams here in LA Todd Gurley led the Rams comeback with nearly two hundred total yards. He set up the go ahead field goal in the fourth quarter. The Packers were about to get the ball back with about two minutes left time on Gumri. Fumbled the kickoff and the Rams ran out the clock like silver of NFL dot com reported that Rogers was extremely upset with Montgomery for returning the kick sang on the sidelines, quote, take a bleeping knee. Here's more from Rodgers after the game. Very disappointing. Played in lose the game. But it definitely. Took away opportunity for us to go down and win it sound like a home game at times for the crowd was fantastic. Don't really expect that maybe an, but I know that five LA teams planned today. So I was glad to Packer fans showed up. They're fantastic. Great energy disappointed. We couldn't get one last drive. Shannon. Should Aaron be upset time? Gumri should be not just there in the entire team should be upset with time and Gumri because he put he put himself above the team. He wanted to be the hero nice being reports that on the series before that he was upset that he was taken out of the ball game. Hope that's not the case. Also, there was some reports that he was told to take the knee. Let's get this is the difference between Mike McCarthy in coach Bela Jake in two thousand fifteen they're very similar situation. The giant going down kicked a field goal going up by two points over the New England Patriots. They kick off and guess what? The return of did. He took a knee because what time of Gumri did that he robbed them really to timeouts because it was on the other side of the two minute warning. Because time is of the essence in a situation. Like this. You have air ride as maybe if you have listened to your quarterback skip you want to get as many yards. You possibly can to shorten the distance that that guy would have to go. But this is Aaron Rodgers. I believe he's the best quarterback currently playing in the National Football League. There's a lot of debate at this table, we go back and forth. He said Brady Aaron Rodgers blasphemy you with within in the graveyard in the graveyard you whistling in the graveyard asking. If you look at some of the throw that he was making during the course of the game. He was flicking. The ball falling off falling back off his back with throwing the ball forty yards a dime here. Devante twice. Once. The rail wasn't a middle of field. Call the safety nap. And he threw the ball over his head. He was he was he was very very good yesterday. I mean, he didn't have a four hundred yard game. Like he had the previous to ball games. But I thought he threw the ball bear will going up against that front seven. That was getting some fresh from time to time owning I just believe had time Gumri taking the knee. It was on the other side of the two minutes. Aaron Rodgers we're going to get an opportunity to run at least one play before the two minute warning. Now, he can go to the sideline talk to Mike McCarthy in this. What we want to do this. We're going to go about doing it. So not only should Aaron Rodgers be upset, but the entire team should be upset at time Gummer because I thought time Gummer in this situation. And this is not hindsight. I tweet. Did you take a knee in that situation air Rogers you quarterback and you let him go down to win it? And I believe he raw Thomas government not saying this cost them the game. But I believe he robbed them of an opportunity to possibly win this game. Which is exactly what Roger said after the game, which is typical of Aaron Rodgers because he is notorious for throwing very teammates underboss and not taking enough of the blame himself in. This was classic Aaron Rodgers because I would like to point out all those who maybe didn't get to watch the game. The Green Bay Packers were two of nine on third down. Yesterday's that. Great. No, no Jared Goff had a QBR of sixty seven which is just pretty good. It's a little above average. Aaron Rodgers had a QBR yesterday of sixty. So he got out played according to QBR by Jared Goff. Is that good not great, especially when you're quote, unquote, the greatest quarterback who ever played what if I want you use mass rating passer rating ninety one or two point nine. I'm just going QBR, which is a much more effective and all encompassing rating quarterbacks play for the whole day. So I'm gonna go with this one sixty seven to sixty. So we get back to Aaron Rodgers who is classic for fringe pointing and blame deflecting. And in this case, I don't know exactly what happened. But to your point about Michael silver of NFL dot com. He did write that on the previous series time. Gumri was in the game. We'll time Gummer only played six off into plays the whole game. So this was one of six place, and he is fallen somewhat out of favors, you know, because there have been times when time aunt Gumri is made some big little place for this team. He's been pretty good out of Stanford. He six feet two hundred and eighteen pounds. He ran a four five forty at the combine was third round pick. So he's he's a big powerful. But but also he's got some some speed to give you eighty Lisa got banged up running back wide receiver running with number eight number. He writes. Wearing number. And I remember back in twenty sixteen in the game at Lambeau against my Cowboys ten for ninety three which is pretty good in that that playoff game at Gerry world. He had he was good in that game had eleven Russia's for only forty seven years. He had some big third down run. So so he can make some play and he is definitely fallen out of favor. So he was in on first and ten at the Green Bay twenty one in the previous series. And if we have that play this play that made him angry. So this is going to lead to what happened at the end of the game. But if we have the first ten play Aaron got a little pressure in his face, and he threw low and outside to Montgomery here over on the sideline. So it wasn't very good pass by Aaron standards. He didn't really have a chance to catch this ball. And as he jogs back to the huddle incomes Aaron Jones number thirty three's back in the game. Going to carry on next play time Gumri is basically finished for the game. And according to again, Michael silvers article he went over and slam. I'm gonna get my notes real quick here. So he slammed his helmet on the on the ground now. Backing you see he has to have those to do what he I'll Lido knows. I don't need. No. You don't need. No. Can we show your notes show him show? There's nothing before somebody types up for him. I don't need. I don't mind all mind. They're all all mind. Right. Just. Just. My professional. Here's the point so time Gumri, according Michael silver slams, his helmet on the sideline and he's feary ass-. And it's possible. He rebelled it's possible. He Newton need against the team and against the coaching staff. But now, let's get to the play in question. The kickoff by any standard any special teams. Coach would tell the returner to return that kickoff and less. You had told him to take a knee, but it was very dicey. Because all the reports said it was two yards deep if we get seen this one more time tell me that's two yards deep. He catches it running forward at the goal line. So switch returnable. It's not like he was five yards deep, and he he hesitated for second. This is one where I'm I'm telling it, look he caught it at the goal line. He caught it at the goal on right on the goal line with with momentum's. Okay. So is that a bad play? Is it real close to kid? You neil. What you kneel on that you wasted. They bad play. If. First quarter second IRA got it. But it's so close that once he moves forward to catch the ball. I'm just as you. Well know in these circumstances without much pressure on you. It's hard to process quickly like in his in the back of his mind. He might be thinking, wait a second. Can I Neil? I don't wanna kneel on the goal line. You know, that would be a disaster. He went to Stanford. Okay. And by the way, Stanford is the archrival of Cal where Aaron Rodgers Jerry galls. Maybe sabotage the calico. I don't know. I don't know. But you never know about that. That probably made air Rogers even matter that the Stanford guy. Robbed him a chance at the end of the game. I agree with you. I was deflated who wasn't a flight. And I sat back because I wanted to see again, it's one thing to go against the San Francisco Rams defense San Francisco forty Niners defense because they're ranked thirty first, and that's what he did against CJ bathroom that night. He he brought them back in the bears. Defense is pretty good. It's ranked eleventh in points allowed that was opening night. He brought them back. This is this is a little harder in the Rams are quite what I thought they were going to be cracked up to be on defense. But again, if you got it first and ten at the twenty five with two five. Yes. Anna time out left, and you gotta do many warning. That's what I'm saying. You got a you got all your ammunition. You got all that you would need for Aaron Rodgers to go make plays to set up every every blade of grass is in play the middle of the field. You don't have to just worried about where they're going to try to keep digging gonna guard rails. Everything is. So the point is. Did he try to make a play or did he sabotage? I don't know for sure did he get it in his head that heck with all them. I'm just if I have a chance I'm going to try to make a play because I'm on the outs. Anyway, I can tell you what some coaches would do today. He could he become this offense. Absolutely. So this'll be very interesting to see if he makes it through the day because it's not usually might McCarthy's IMO unless Aaron Rodgers just puts his foot down and says I can't play with that. Right. Right. Yeah. But ski up situation, and I get what you're saying. But maybe in the first three quarters, but in the situation like this time is of the essence, we don't need you to be a hero. The hero is about to run on the field where a number twelve jersey. That's the hero. That's the guy you want. Skip you dream for moments. Like this to have an opportunity to have a Brady to have a Roger to have drew Brees come onto the field. When all you need, they feel and you've got to six the two minute warning anti-thai. At your disposal. So which meaning that everything the middle of the field. Check down run the ball. Everything is in play. And he robbed them of that opportunity. Why in that situation? That is the difference might McCarthy and coach Bela check, maybe you're right. Let's just say what you know. What's balance? I wanna agree with you. I'm gonna say, you know, what you're right. Maybe they didn't tell him. Maybe they should have told him. But I would like to think that you would know situation. It was my job. Mike in Gary kubiak offense coordinator, head coach couldn't tell me every situation. I had to know the situation I needed to know down in distance. I need to know where we were on the area the field to make sure because they got enough things going on that not only are they calling that play. They're thinking about. Okay. If we don't get anything for dental. We get by yard. What are we gonna run on second down? What could we possibly do third now? So they got they got enough on their plate. Let me take some of that off of their plate. Todd. Mutt? Gum. I believe was upset at his. Lack of playing time. I believe that he got up said that Aaron Rodgers threw a ball into art. And he Aaron turned his back like, bro. What are you doing? That wasn't a very good throat. But I can assure you every quarterback would've felt like Erin Phil had the return of did what he did in that situation. I would agree. So step back from this. How impressed were you with either team? Let me tell you how I felt about that the Packers defense shocked me. Yes. Only because Alexander gyro exander. I'm sorry. Was he finally healthy? And he's going to be a big time player. So you have a Packers defense that is going to put them back on the map in that division, which is crumbling. So it's there's to win. We're gonna talk about Minnesota here in a little bit. But on the other side, I'm just not sold on the Rams, and I believe the Rams are going to go lose at New Orleans next. Would you be no Shane? Yeah. And then their schedule gets rough because they got the Seahawks at home, and that's not going to be a cake. Qua? No. It's a division game in the Seahawks. Have suddenly caught by there's no love lost between these two now. No love loss. And then it's Kansas City at Mexico City on a Monday night that won't be any cakewalk for sure. And then they have to go to Detroit go to Chicago. And they got the eagles. Those are next six games. That's hard, man. That's a bunch of lose -able game. But there is good. If I think they are they'll they'll be okay. Could they lose one of those games? Could they lose to those games? Yes. I don't see them lose more than two of those games. Get when I look at this team. I think they're great offensively. They can run the ball with Todd Gurley. And if you look I thought Green Bay did a great job get because they did a lot of run listen, and they put more pressure on Jerry Goff. They got hit. They took him down. Because what the Rams like do. They like to push the ball down the field in order for you to push the ball down the field. Skip you need five and seven step drops, and a pack of took that into account and brought gas, and so they were able to get to him and take him down a few times. But Todd Gurley. Made some heck of a catch. If he made a heck of a run because what you wanna see skipping a situation like this. You have a lead in everybody. Have this is what we call a four minute office. We either get a touchdown or we run the clock out. But no way. No how air Rogers ever see this ball. Again, the next time air rod of come on the field it of the shake my quarterback fan and go to the locker room. That's it. And they had done a great job Bali Kagera. But remember we talked about this is tough late. He get one yard here. He get three yards there. And every once in a while he get a four yard game. But when the rubber needed to meet the role because of your membership on first down, they have what they call the jet sweet to Robert Wood, and they have up and they called the time out and everybody like we had it. We had what we wanted. Sean mcvay. Let me better. I got something better. He they handle T G four hundred. That means he'll get you one hundred yards here. I need you to give me this. And he had a for a touchdown. But he said, you know, what this what TJ was thinking. Great minds, think alike. He said I could go get this touchdown and make it a eight point gain. But what if my field goal kick Mitha PAT? So now Aaron Rodgers the ball back down to the time. How about I do this? I'm gonna get close. And I'm alone latest thing down here. Right. You're not getting this ball. Not the first time. I've seen that play here. We're not talking about. Let's go special teams team. They're very good Jonah Hecker Pro Bowl LEGO train. Greg's Hecker can throw it. That the keeps you own your Ps and qs because Sean Payton is looking to steal possession. He then that shot. He's from that, Sean Payton, Sean McVay show McVeigh from the Sean Payton, we'll steal a possession for his office defensively. They're going to get a key to lead back. Secondary skill is is concerning at time. But I believe once they get a keep to Liebeck. Let me tell you something they got a guy in the middle. And he might go a stretch to my go-to series, and they won't call his name. But boy when you need him to make a play that number ninety nine skip Bayless, you say you look for gotta flash gotta jump off your scream, but when they needed a play, and they say we need we need you to get air. Roger out the field. Did he not come through with flying colors? He's been flashing the last couple of weeks. He didn't for the first four but the last two or three yes. And allow me to say this publicly we've gone back and forth about who's the best running back in the National Football League. And I'm here to say right now the running back who is playing the best is this running back Todd Gurley. The best. Yeah. I still don't think he's the best. But again, how can I defend Ezekiel Elliott when he's running nowhere fast week after week after week. He's running in mud. He's running in quicksand. And this guy is just exploding on everybody there exploded on Green Bay. There's a lot of guys that could run for yard. But this guy does does one. Does you one better? He runs for yards. And he scores you touchdown. And it can catch it. Oh, Soka my guy. They throw it to him ever. But they throw it to him in Washington. Can you tell the people at home? What happens should caught the ball did? But what happened? He dropped semi should've caught draw out with her. You say dropped it. He should have exactly what I thought. But it's not an easy catch, but he should not doing that. So you wouldn't either catching he had walk it? That's a long hand on. But we will talk about him a little later on. How are we ever? We get I think this team because they're they're great offense. They're great defensively. I think they're middle of the road. They get to lead back because I think they're well coached in all three air way. Bill. They aren't the coordinate ninety two John bones a fossil. He was the ball. Boy when I was different ninety three ninety four. He does a good job. Sean McVay if good office in mind is that you'll see in the National Football League is. Josh mcdaniels Shawn Payne, Sean McVay right fair Roeber ably with those guys legit legit. So to your point about Todd Gurley. That was a really smart play. And it was a cool play for him. Just to say I give up and it was a tribute impart to Aaron Rodgers, I'm not even going to give him a chance. But most most coaches can try to coach that in the moment, you're not really prepared for it. But he's got presence of mind just to say, no ongoing down. Did it help the fantasy owners? It did not help the gamblers if you had. Nope. Nope. Did not. But did it help his team it just ended the football game? And there's a chance give now you know, he's on pace to break. Ill told a yard touchdown record from screaming. Yeah. Now, he might look back when mine to season with thirty and says that one that I left on the. Yeah. I think he's built like that. We've had him on the show. I think he's a team guy. I believe the team. I don't sense any div. I don't know me. I I e they team in that moment that was the best thing for the team. But they're gonna come time that you know, you look back like man, I could have had thirty one. Yeah. Ty is different than being one below ill too. Yeah. So big picture on Aaron Rodgers was he robbed a chance. Yes. He was. But let's not lose sight of the fact, he's not having a very good year. I'm going to say it again, his QBR ranks twenty first in the National Football League. That's below Alex. Mitch down Alex that's below James that we're gonna talk about later, and that's below even Mitchell Trubisky not having a his kind of year that should tell you right there. Everything you need to know about QBR because what parts of the National Football League. What? Fran even in those markets, Chicago, Tampa or whomever would take those quarterbacks over Aaron Rodgers. They're just like LeBron fans. They're blind witnesses lined with. I guarantee you take every Chicago bear fan. I guarantee you will not by one Chicago bear fan. I would rather have mitt forbids. They won't Aaron Rodgers. But let's just frame it with the fact his QBR is fifty four which is barely above average lay our three three and one. Now, let's look you look at his numbers. What is numbers tail us a five hundred quarterback? What is it? Hundred if he the five hundred quarterbacks. Well, he's below five hundred. We just put back in the dodgers though. He belongs belongs. Thank you. Because he's outplayed air every time. They have him all three times put him in Q air rock air. Rod you told me average, you're below average low. I have to put him in the box the below average guy got what he has to go you to stop this you need to stop because we've seen guys throw for three hundred and three or four touchdown and how Lord QBR then I got it throws. Apart? And I'll show you why we're about to do that with your guy Kirk cousins, I don't guy. Ginny, jamie. Jamie, jamie. Don't don't let scales I'm gonna tell you. What happened happened? Yes. Absolutely. But air Roger had Aaron Rodgers and the Packers should be upset at time Gummer because I believe he took matters into his own hands, which was unnecessary at this. Think of all those chances that Aaron wasted two for nine on third down. Is that good? That's not time. Wait a minute babies. You didn't say that about Tom Brady in the Super Bowl? Well, I'm talking about Aaron Rodgers Tom Brady he said after the game they were up ten nothing early in the second quarter. And they go three and out Pont five plays Pont. And then they get thrown for a safety in. What what what do you think when they run a run? But you didn't do that. With Tom Brady when he started the game when he would all those three and three at three and outs. You didn't say anything you playing coach tax defense. Now all of a sudden game the Super Bowl food. Bove for five hundred five yards. It's absurd. He could've put up thirty three six hundred yards. Had he not going three and out three. When they first got the ball put up thirty three yesterday. We'd be having a different conversation. But he didn't he had lots of chances. But he Tom Brady to put up to two we'd have a different conversation. Well, we can do we won't to dog had a square but poop blots is round Janney. So we already know how what happened with the Hugh need to stop this is blasphemy era where no, no. Yeah. We're moving on are the saints on their way to the Super Bowl. Skip upset with Michael Jordan outwear. The saints. They got some revenge on the Vikings for last year's playoff loss with a thirty two twenty win in Minnesota last night. Drew Brees threw for a season low hundred twenty arts Alvin Kamara had two total touchdowns and the saints defense stepped up big time they forced a fumble on Adam feeling in the second quarter and had a huge pick six on Kirk cousins. The saints have won six in a row and house the undefeated Rams on Sunday. Shannon, far and saints. Go picked him to go to the Super Bowl. Clearly, I think they can go that far. I think they're the second team in the NFC. I still have the Rams ahead of them a lot of get settled next week because these teams play in spin in New Orleans their defense is better than I thought especially different seven now still think they have some liabilities on the back end PJ William skip gave up two touchdowns to pass interference calls, but he did get the pick six, but they were real physical. I thought turning-point. This ball game. It looked like the vice for about to go up skip at least what ten points and then the-the him feeling fumble that ball they go down and get a touchdown. And the saints really never looked back. They could really never get in rhythm after that. And to think that the New Orleans Saints won a ballgame. Grieve APAC is not winning the game in which Rogers does one hundred twenty hours. That's not going to happen. We know that. And so for them to win a game withdrew through for one twenty. He did have the touchdown first time that the saints have won a game. It was Dru through for under a hundred and fifty since two thousand and six so that's how such an anomaly what an anomaly is. But they're good office. They can run the ball with Ingram. Now that he's back American run the ball better than you think for someone is is he can run inside he run outside. He's unbelievable in space catching the ball down the field. And Kirk cousins gonna get a lot of the blame on this pick six, but Stefan digs is wrong here. Now, whether you want to call this a shallow cross or drag whatever you wanna call it and the situation like this this man coverage he cannot stop he's in the running. So he has the db in the chess. That's on you can't pull up like that. It's just like if I'm running the slant route skipping the cornerback jumped inside, and I stopped what a quarterback is going one two three. And he's throwing the ball if I stopped. He's gonna hit the db right in the chest. That's what happened dig pools up. He hit PJ Williams right in the chest. It goes back the other way. Now, if you don't like her cousins or you're not into the minutia of how you should run around against man zone covered. That's may Kirk. I told you I told you he was a. Underachieving though, he was over cheap all hurt under continent over. Achieve. That's what heals exactly what he is. He's also the highest paid player in the history. Most overpaid player in the history of that might be the case Keough babies, but you know, how free agency work Reggie is not about being good. It's about being timing. Hey, and you have to you have to overpay to get a guy that come to your building. But skip I still believe Minnesota the very good. I mean feeling with over one hundred dollars again still find the head to receive. They have two guys are legit number one receiver dig and theme coward off. He's not the car route off a bowl, but he's still can make plates, but they need to run the ball a little more than what they ran it. Davin cooks going to be out for a minute with that hamstring injury. And we normally see that guy that have me he suffered a knee injury. Skip that info he's struggling getting the hamstring up to strand. So it can care because he's an explosive running back, but they're going to have to run more. But I understand why they throw it. You don't pay a quarterback twenty eight million dollars eighty. Four fully guaranteed to ask him to turn around and hand it to a running back. So they put a lot on Kirk cousins shoulders and last night. I thought he was playing well he just got let down a some situation. But okay defense you at home. Okay. Defense going time. If is struggling you and welcome to take the ball away like New Orleans defense day for them when their offense didn't have it going early on. Okay. Minnesota any point in time. If you wanna hit drew Brees and get the ball out if you wanna pull the ball out from one of those feel free, but don't just settle for that. Just don't settle for the turnover. Do like the two thousand ravens of the two bugs tournament appoint. So I don't know if anybody, but me noticed this, but Shannon, shop did pick New Orleans to go to represent the NFC in the Super Bowl and soda die for the season start but the last two weeks, Shannon Sharpe. Very quietly has picked against the saints on the road at Baltimore and Minnesota. I did thank you very much for that. I didn't pick the saints bowl times. Because these ain't the same old eight this team is doing business completely upside down from even last year saints this team is shocking me because it is now the home sweet dome team. Do you realize it's four no on the road. Now beat Atlanta, Atlanta that'll work. The giants giants that's business as usual, but but again, four no with winds at Baltimore and Minnesota and successive weeks and look how they did it again yesterday. If you told me that drew Brees would throw for only one hundred twenty yards and have a cube. The are sub-standard forty seven and they would get out gained four hundred twenty three to two seventy. I'd say I'll losing your going. All that Minnesota Kirk cousins three fifty nine two touchdowns. Minnesota went seven thirteen on third and fourth down. That's pretty good. But guess what happened once again yesterday? Drew Brees threw only twenty four passes, and they ran it twenty nine times at Baltimore. He threw only thirty passes, and they ran it thirty nine times. That's not exactly Sean Payton football is it. They have turned it upside down on its head. They're saying whatever it takes to go win a game. Drew will you swallow your pride because drew Brees likes to fling. It man. I think he threw one ball of twenty argest, right? Because he said after the game we got this elaborate exotic game plan. And then we go into the game. And we see what they're going to give us all they're gonna give us his little check nouns. We'll take all the check down if they're gonna let us run it with the light box. We're just gonna hammer away and run the full. Football. And they are a different football team. That can go win on the road. And I think they could go win in inclement weather on the road. Even though we haven't seen that just yet. So the point is that the toughest remaining schedule and all pro football belongs to the New Orleans Saints. So do I love them. I like them I still like their chances. They gotta go to Cincinnati. They got the eagles the falcons, they gotta go to Dallas on thanksgiving, which is not easy. Either win their easy win. I don't know. It's hard to thanksgiving to caseload right now. I got one case on it right now. Okay. And I feel real good about that feeling good. And then they go to Tampa that should be easy. But then they got Carolina to the last three home and away and the Steelers in between. So it's hard, man. That's a lot of games. But I think they're mentally tough enough to get through this. And once again, you don't get it. But you trust Kirk cousins too much because he will always let you down in a play or two in a game. And he'll have a big good QBR throat for three fifty nine and he will. Convert and you can say that was his fault. He looks deer in headlights to me. He looks like he's he's frantic. Like he's going to throw it before he thinks about it because clearly in digs. We're not on the same page any through it very quickly. And again, digs is already cut the other way. It's like the quarterback has to have the presence of mind to pull it down pull it back. You just can't throw it cannot, no. Guessing you're just guess after difference between the really good women the average quarterback because they're throwing on rhythm throwing on time. And that's why the really good quarterbacks get upset when you don't do what you're supposed to do skip. If I tell you to run the speed out that's ten and you gotta roll the twelve in my back put hit five I've let the ball go. I don't care if the cornerback lines upside you. That's an option route where you have to know the option you have to have enough report with your Steve maybe they're too new to have that report Julian Ataman option route. Will you got to anticipate it correctly? You don't see Tom Brady throw pick six off an option round. But here's the thing with option route you reading man's own skin PJ, William jumping if your pocket there's no zone to that. He threw it to pay. Jay Jay was the intendant on style. He just went the other way. He can't do that. You don't get that. It's just an option around the guest wrong. Oh, nothing. Shallow, crawls. He I think it was an option round, you know, first of all if it was an option route he's not going to go past the ball any option out. No option about it's going to take you pass the ball. So if he's going to run an object it's going to it's going to be between defender and attack. Oh bhatt. He went too far. He went to the other side of the ball, which left me. No. That's a shallow cross PJ way of at the snap of the ball jumps in his pocket. That's telling him, man. Covers you do not pull up because of you stop. And the quarterback throws it gift. What's going to happen? He dude had reservation for six to the end zone. All I gotta tell you is that pair of receivers for the Vikings makes Kirk cousins, look a lot better than he should look because he throws balls that that are just crazy balls. And they go up and snatch them or come back. Do those are the two best at finding the foot. Ball and changing repositioning the football. They're both really really good at it. And there were four or five throws last night where I said, oh that's up for grabs. And they one time sneak feeling just went over yet and digs will come back for one. He say, wow. These guys are really good. But in that case he throws it right to PJ pick six, and you just can't do it in a game of that magnitude Sunday night football close game. And all I know is as a cowboy fan. I miss Kirk cousins playing for the Washington Redskins. Do do. Yeah. He was one in six against the Cowboys. Because he always they're always hidden blunders in his QBR that play whatever who's ever faulted is you just have to eliminate it. Is it digs fault? Or is it just should the quarterback not of tried it at all whatever it is. It's a typical Kirk cousins play. And then I gotta go back to the previous play that was the fourth and one play. This is a huge play a game. They had a fourth and one at their forty five. Mike Zimmer says we're gonna go for it. And who does Kirk cousins choose on the play? He truces chooses lay Kwan Treadwell who's not trust what he's less trustworthy than Kirk cousins. I know, but has not dropped a lot of them. All. Hey, all right. So don't choose him. What I'm saying? It's just cousins picking the wrong guy. I would never throw him fourth in one and throw that deep of a pass to this should be pop pass to somebody for three yards ski. Here's the guy. That's a first round pick. He has one on one coverage. I hit him in the hands and before he security give the way the DB's the first round pick to Lattimore. Yes. But should he not caught this ball? The ball hated minivan's. A huge play is in the saints. Go right down the field goal in all sudden they're off to the races. And then the pick six apples on the next series and the games virtually over skew in her cousins thing like that. When they eleven guys on the field. The coach feel those are the best Levin guys. Nobody can be off limits. Once you start negating, we're not this guy because he's not Shannon Sharpe door to this guy. Because no you out for reason you win the ball's coming weeks, but you to make a play is simple. Out the first mount p. He's not a undrafted free agent round pick. I loved it. I loved it to Treadwell love it. Thank you way to go. So here's the bottom line to what's going on between Kirk cousins. And drew Brees Kirk cousins has now thrown ninety eight more passes this year than drew Brees. You believe in that ninety eight think about that. It's almost a hundred passes more, but his skip Mark Ingram. And Alvin Kamara is better than what they have in Minnesota. I cook effort, you're putting all your eggs in Kirk cousins basket, and what you record where you have to pay twenty you play in twenty eight million a year. You put a lot you put a lot of late. I want butter decision making, Shannon. Thank harney. They'll let him do debate in the NFL is for the title of best quarterback Tom Brady or Aaron Rodgers will Sunday night might help the debate. And the Packers are traveling to Foxborough to play the patriots and NBC got none other than Michael Jordan to hype up the match up. Take a listen to this. A lot of talk going on these days about who is the greatest ever. Who has the titles? Roll talent the most clench moment. Get it. Tough call. I mean, even the jersey numbers say. But maybe the best way to this debate played out. Head to head. I watch that. I'm sorry. I had to watch that. About I need to know. What's your reaction to this? You look set for the first time in my life. I am angry with Michael Jeffrey joy what I am stunned and disappointed that he would stoop to give credibility and credence to not one debate. But to debates he opened to wrong doors. He actually put himself in the same cute little sentence with LeBron James on even belong in the same sense with Michael Jordan. And then he opened a second door. Aaron Rodgers does not belong in the same breath with Tom Brady, Michael see, I know. But why would he stoop to do a commercial is it for money? Just Michael need the money. How could NBC pay him enough with all the money? He has to do an average three hundred last year. Okay point does he need the money. No. He doesn't need the money. Does he need the attention? Does he need to stay relevant? Doing a Sunday night. No, no. He doesn't need his sneakers. We'll keep them relevant for the rest of his born days. And then some right? Why would he stoop to do this because he opened two huge telling the truth telling? If you put him on the lie detector right now, he would laugh out loud at LeBron James being in the same sentence, and he opened the door acute ad because they both were twenty three and the other two both work. Athlete what you need skill. He was talking about Aaron Rodgers and Tom Brady util because LeBron tweet is up there. He was going there. That was the joke of the commercial that was the little clever conceit to the commercial was he was oh, we going to LeBron. No. And then, of course, LeBron to his credit jumped right on the bandwagon because Michael opened his door and LeBron ran through it like he should have what happens open the door flies coming your house. That's right. A fly just got my fly got in came right through the door because all the blind. Witnesses say oh, see Michael's knowledge. Ing that there's a competition between there's no competition over competition. Bit over what you'll have to say it again, Michael is six and Owen finals versus lebrons three and six. Michael Jordan Wentz. Ten scoring titles to lebrons one. Do I need to start? How far do I need to go? How about you? How far? The Cleveland Cavaliers Janney. We're in the NBA finals, they lose one player. They start to see oh and fix. They find the head coach now in nineteen Ninety-three to Chicago Bulls won fifty seven games and the NBA title, Michael, Jordan, retired. They win fifty five game, which is two games. And they are hue Hollins blown call away from advanced into the Eastern Conference finals, they love Kyrie urban who were they top. What ten top twelve thirteen player? They still go to the final. So that arguments. I don't really think we need to have an argument. But all the do. I do I need to bring up that in as we saw just the other night then in late game clutch free throw shooting. Lebron can't make one to save his life or his team's life. He just can't even how about right now. Lebron without a co star without a solo star a second star look at what's happened. This team could have only one win so far if not for land Stevenson land, Stephen saves the night abroad, they could have no win. Where would they be with Libya question if the bribe's in Cleveland, do you believe loom would've lost his job? Stern conference now that you're in the Western Conference. So it let's just get this straight real quick on. What's happened? So far LeBron here in LA. Let's let's frame this. So the Lakers are down one with eight minutes left at Portland closed. King couldn't close they're down with four thirteen left against the rockets in the ball game closed. King couldn't close then they're up six with fifty six seconds left in overtime. It gets my Spurs on that Saturday night game close. King Armand is left. Monday night close. You've got to close that you could then this past Saturday night. They're up one with seven minutes left ninety six to ninety five at San Antonio gets. What's left of my Spurs close at king? And he couldn't close it. They lost again. Just going glow just affect with two minutes and twenty seconds you down by one thirty three to thirty. You're down one thirty three thirty two close. Go Dr Brady clones game fourth down one. What do you do get bailiff place? Heath gourd this all that game. If you go point he had closed a whole bunch of it because he'd wanted. Oh, so it's all the broad. Another one that should have stayed close except for the luckiest plane. This correctly. So LeBron James is never ever closed the game before prior to this year. He had never closed the game. How about one counts kyri closed the one that counted? Redo it right now, it just doesn't matter. What I'm going off surgery? Second big surgery on the same told me anytime about Kyrie or told me anytime somebody going to court and that has your name on the back day bit. You'll be great. But I don't know how we got off a what Michael rigidly started talking about which was Tom Brady and Raji open. The lebron. I won't. I was gonna kill a broader risk today. I wanna give I would treat like the salmon. Like the Sam sweep him under the car. Nobody notices what's going on. I got another thing. I can't thirty five eleven and four part of the carpet. But that's not what we're talking about. So think about this Tom Brady is one five out of eight Super Bowls. It should be six out of eight couldn't be Aaron Rodgers one long ago Super Bowl and since that Super Bowl Aaron Rodgers is five and six in the postseason and just during that stretch Tom Brady is thirteen and five in the postseason. Overall. Tom Brady is twenty seven and ten to Aaron's ten and seven how can you put him in the same? It's like insulting to me that we're even having this conversation and Michael opened the door cutesy ad for NBC. Why I don't know this gained what what's the wind for Michael Jordan near there's no win because there's no win angry with the first what are you thinking? Seriously. What are you thinking gimme at rationale NBC asked him say, Mike, would you mind doing this board over force? We have a big probably the biggest Sunday night game that we've ever that we've ever had. And we talked about the two best. Quarterbacks and football playing. Currently are the lot of debate about which is better. Tom Brady Aaron Rodgers. We'd and he mentioned one guy very accomplished one guy that what he had Jordan agree. Okay. The I agree. So now, get it. He's he's. Now, a lot of conversation that go back and forth over water cooling that the barbershop debating he's, but you know, only one way to settle this thing. Play. I'm gonna watch LeBron's like wanna play one on one. Michaels like sixty five asking you to style in the broad this equation to go LeBron only some guts we're talking about Aaron Rodgers. We're talking about Tom Brady. And I just want you to tell me why didn't Tom close when he was Odile one thirty two thirty three and the Super Bowl. I don't wanna hear about five. Oh five I don't wanna hear about who. Simply the all time record for any playoff game. It was simply the most points ever scored by a loser in the Super Bowl thirty three points. The most points ever scored at a finals game in which the player lost fifty one. But he came to my restaurant didn't make excuses. You say you gotta close the game. So I just wanna know why all of a sudden you find every way possible to make use of Tom Brady. I don't care if gave up seven thousand yards you go thousands of one if you're gonna go you can do it. How did genius Bill bell checks? Fence give up forty one to the backup quarterback for the Philadelphia. Eagles helped me out was it because Malcolm Butler had to watch from sidelines from the doghouse, I don't know that same that same genius. That told his return a- do not bring the ball out of the end zone to run useless time off the clock the same genius. That had his snapper. Snap the ball over the pundits head never and take the safety in the winning the ballgame to get the game to get the ball back. Tom Brady that genius lease give sometimes it's the little things that goes unnoticed that leaves to the greatness or shoals how great a coach eve z you think. Well, he this is expertise deep is if they're not the two thousand ravens they can't be good. Well, who's that that two thousand rabies or two thousand bucks or the seventy Steelers no one the mere fact that he's able to do this should give beaks ballroom to his greatness. Do you? Remember what he did to the ninety Buffalo Bills who were head of their time with the K gut that game plan is in the hall of fame. You know, that's. He was the coordinator. He still should be accord noted if what he did that the mega five he should still be a coordinate now. Well, coachee had losing records and five of his first six seasons and guess who fell out of heaven into his lap. My share the hand on Carol some guys everybody. Interesting. Everybody is not as great. I look at look at Tom Coughlin. Tom confident really win anything. Tom Copley got his offended by. We even saw yesterday. It's classic Aaron Rodgers. He's going to throw a teammate under the bus. It's his fault. He's a blade phase not leadership. What did we see LeBron due at the end of game one of the NBA finals at Oakland. He just melted down on the bench and he'd separated himself on the team. I don't wanna get with that mess to say Tom do win Tom yelling screaming at teammates running the wrong. Wait, one talk one on the gone under would happen like ten years ago and his two days later after did it happen. It happened over on the bench. He was. Join the team and the wrong they kept they kept he'll out of the hall of fame all the base. And then did you see LeBron already started with his Lakers? Did you see the late time out in the Laker game on Saturday night? And I watch every what is what Brown went over and sat on the scores table when they'd fallen down eight with a minute thirties. He goes and sits on the scores table because that's who he is. He's Aaron Rodgers or vice versa. They're the same guy. He sits on the scores table. Like, I associate with that mess in the huddle. Guys. Tell me we got to and got it down to one way to go. Got it down to what Rondo that live? But that's not what we're talking about. How does not have a smart play Todd Gurley? That's a smart play. If you got Steph curry, if you got Klay Tofte, it you got one of these great three point shooters where that on the Laker team. But we're not talking about that. I want you to stop trying to get me off topic Jordan say that there needs to there. The debate going on that needs to be settled be day night. Help they paid him a billion dollars. The only reason my free because he he he will the like everybody else down. Amanda might knowing what I know to be doing. You know, what I don't know what he's doing maybe somebody favorite NBC. I have no idea mad at Michael Jordan. I am rolling off different AR. He's opened up all these eight sick. But are you also mad at Jason Garrett because busy by week? And yeah, I'll tell you why next. Now. And the Red Sox are champions again after beating the dodgers last night here in LA skip. How was your guy David price as a Vanderbilt along? I was so proud of David price for finally coming up big in a postseason for the Boston Red Sox so Walker. Bueller? Vanderbilt was the best dodger picker pitcher David price stole the show. Vanderbilt baseball, you tell you Tampa Bay say where would that when we're in the playoff into the World Series? But I doubt graph scare when you look this was the best team in baseball risk starts from start to finish. It was. And when you have the guy that's gonna probably finish one into the MVP. Mookie Beth JD Martinez. And then every time they come up with a pinch hitter. Two guys on man. I just hope he came put it in play. He hits the ball over the fence every time they needed a timely hit. They got it except for Friday night. What eighteen eighty but become most give I mean. Nobody's better. That they did this. And that you can all you can all look back and say, you know, what there's nothing the dodgers could've done that was going to make them better than the Red Sox in this series. Correct. Better team won congratulations to the Red Sox. Lot of friends of mine in Boston were happy about that one. But we're getting them back to game three of the World Series on Friday night. Because luck who it is Jason Garrett in the front row for that game. Because the Cowboys had a bye, but Garrett has faced some criticism for being there. Former Cowboys coach Jimmy Johnson said on FOX NFL Sunday, quote, I think it sends the wrong message not only to the fans to the players at three and four. There's work to be done, Shannon. Do you have a problem with Gharib at the game? No getting good. None. I love Jimmy and he worked with us. But did not work twenty four hours a day. And just because who said he didn't get his work done. Listen from nineteen ninety six to nineteen ninety eight. We went thirty nine games we went to Super Bowls. We went to division titles and. Coaching? We would come fly in on a ripple road trip. And the coaches would not even go home. They were staying breakdown field in on by weeks. We got Friday Saturday and Sunday off we had to be back by noon Monday. I can assure you now, maybe the coaches didn't go to game, but they weren't in there. Mike Shanahan made it abundantly clear. I want you guys to get away scale to say because Jason Garrett has a life. That's not breaking down and putting a game plan twenty four hour of the day. What method what look is the bad week? They make it seem like he that the game on a Friday night and they play on Sunday. That's not the case. So so in other words, Jason Garrett is supposed to have no life that isn't put ball related to football season. Give you and I know best that's disingenuous. That's not true. I know I've been on teams that won eight a lot of games. And I know the coach was spinning over a hundred hours. Doing a seven day span. But when it came time to the BI week, they got days off, and whether they went Ovaca, they went to my whatever they did that was there. Right. That was their business. So to say because oh, this is this why they only went three games because he that this game. Visit O'Brien with excited to should've called me out to be right? And plus he was doing job one of his job to do skill. Clap, clap the gauge he was doing exactly what he was opposed. You'll he's actually he's a gifted class. I've never seen the clever with that was. That was when they won the game. But that was eighteen that was Saturday. Right. That was Friday Friday Friday. Yeah. Yeah. You do it stayed for all eighteen. Whereas he go here head do Hollywood. He's gotta go hang with Brad high. We know he Jarrett the hotspot how we would Jerry. He might stop. We need to stop with this. Now, I haven't even started. To have a life. You just want my Cowboys to explode in lose. Right. You want him to come apart at the sound of that hair? You know, what Jason Garrett should be sitting on a hot seat as a coach. And instead he was sitting in the coolest seed on Friday night next to Brad paisley at Dodger Stadium very near to Hollywood during their bye week it since such a wrong neces- as Jimmy said the fans and even to the players, what do they are three and four this is the time as you. Well know when you as a coaching staff self scout, you go back to those seven-game tapes, and you tear them all apart. Just like you're an opposing coach trying to figure out how to beat that often Sunday. And you say, let's try this. Let's do that. Let's turn this upside, let's go this. We got a brand new receiver Amari Cooper. And we gotta go out and find out how to get him in grey shaded the quickest into offer the coordinator position coat thought head coach your job. He is. Offensive coordinator. Well, I'm just saying this is what he does best. And this is what he should be doing. It's just a bad. Look, even if you wanna take the night off and take your wife out to dinner in Dallas, I'm fine with that. If the World Series had been at Houston, I could make a better case because it's just a short flight, but you went to Hollywood odd years. Hold on. I get it. Yes. You do a lot of filth evaluating. Scouting. You do see how heavier formation, you know, you know, what might would tell guys when we run this tolls. We're heavily I formation right handed. So let's run some of this week when we get in this formation eighty percent of the time. We throw it in the Shannon the ball on the backside Ostra. Okay. I get all of that. Right. So let me get. So you mean to tell me they couldn't do that on Monday to have this. What's coming up? The titans. Visit the next a week from tonight on Monday night football. The titans are third in points allowed is that good. That's pretty good. That's one notch behind the Dallas defense is that going to be a low scoring battle. Yep. You will not. So what you need to spend a little more time on the titans. And then guess what happens the next weekend you have to go to Philadelphia. Maybe you could get a jump on scouting Philadelphia. I don't know. Why don't you just want to lose what you're doing? Now. All of a sudden, you putting everything you Philly. Why are we worried about feeling when we got tightened? What we worry about feeling. You have by week. You can get a jump on. You got people breakdown. I guarantee you got people Phillies already been broken down fairly already been broken out the game. They played our down. But we're not worried about them because we got the titans. But in the meantime, they gave me some time off. So I'm taking my time. So let me get this. Right. You tell me. Oh, I didn't wanna make sure hear your correctly. You know, he'll always tell me, they, Shannon. You got this time off you got three days off telling Chrissy that produces with Charlie Dick's, they say, well, you know, what we will get you out three day. So you try to tell me you want me to get ready if still practice debate, and you even on my time off I wish I might you know, I'm right about without might take a day off. But I'll tell you what we'll say shot. Go do go be out like a scout on a new route. I don't where I'm going, but I'm going somewhere. Not going to be on FOX lot you need to stop. What is hand line on our new commercial better com prepared Jason Garrett you'd better come prepared for the titans? And then the eagles you got time. Are you going to waste it out in Hollywood is just a you know, what it comes across. It comes across like Jason Garrett is now these semi-retired retired son of Jerry Jones. He just am. I Ryan how you get from. He's just resting on his laurels like, Jerry joy life. I do not want. That's a bad. Look so have three and four if you are seven and all maybe I'd give it three to make sure I'm hearing you correctly. So if he takes his wife out that means he's not three or four if he goes somewhere where the public can't see him or cameras cake, by the way, I think she was with him at the game. But I'm just trying to say so how did him going out Chinese their record at this point? Look, it's I was so proud of Jimmy yesterday because Jimmy Johnson took a stand against this. Because he knew this was the right thing to say and remember Jason played for Jimmy Jimmy is fun of Jason both as a backup quarterback and a coach. I think Jimmy's given a lot of advice to Jason again. Jason probably didn't ask him about this one. This is where you just don't do this now. So I was gonna make sure you correctly and see Jim I'm asking so Jimmy on the bye week. You weren't on Friday insulting. You work the exact fame out with that you work then a normal week Jimmy had an expression used to tell me back in the days. I covered his teams, and he would always say don't work like the mule works smart. So you work hard in in. In a certain timeframe where you just you give it all you got. And then you take a break. Okay. But he's just saying this is a bad look because you're sending the wrong message to your tie. We know Jason at work, smart and timeframe I hope he did believe in four. I think you need to stay home. You always keep it. Keep it. I won't I won't my coat. I don't want my coach down skip. I want him to become like the calmness. You've into the Rummy Oklahoma. I don't have anything you'll have rivers lakes. Come. Just calm. You know, she's got ten thousand lakes, right? Well, done Bella chat. Go to games during Super Bowl week. And we didn't. Oh, that's the different. It was so. Besides skipping out of here. No, I'm saying because they were good. This is different. But that was the new Bella check who looked like he was mutinying. Well, you said that tune you said this character what the next time we get a break. Let me find that. You went to prom spring. Don't coach you me. And I need you to get your your better come up to get under twenty four hours a day seven days a week able we all. Vacation I got up at two o'clock own. So I could get the jump on you. And I got it. Good. I'll do it tomorrow and the next day and the next day when they tell us we're not going to compete that day. I'll take it off. The gave one competing and he took a day off is a problem. I know, but it's not like I have the titans in the eagles to get ready. It's just you know, you good. Them both of those guys. Got this. He does wake up earlier. I will go in there. All right. Wasn't a bad. Look for air Rogers off your time on Gummer yesterday. We'll discuss that with Greg Jennings. Well time on come rain cost the Packers a chance to win yesterday. And Rogers was reportedly very upset with Gummer's decision to return a kickoff or joined by FOX analysts, Greg Jennings. All right. Greg Rogers be that upset with Montgomery absolutely one hundred percent, no doubt about I'm gonna tell you right now. I was upset like as a fan. I felt like we all got robbed got raw from opportunities just witness what could have potentially took place, or maybe what wouldn't take wouldn't have exactly we have. We have we did either way we would have found out. What could have what didn't what would have whatever the case may be. But we never got that opportunity. I think it was snatched away. But as far as time Montgomery goes, very smart player. I was I was very shocked that he even decided to take it out. But I put it on time on Gumri as well as coaching because in that situation, you had you must be clear and concise when it comes to what we are doing. I truly believe that if they had told timeout gummy. We are not bringing it out. He would not have brought that ball out of the end zone. When you give a player the opposite. Or you say make a great judge, which he is always done a very smart player. Very sure handed doesn't put the ball on the ground in that situation. He's to not even two yet to full yards deep in the end zone. So in kick return rules if you're not three yards or deep. You you can bring it out. It's up to your discretion. He felt like again. This is for me to make a play can make hero. And so, but because I know the type of player timeout Gummer is I'm not holding this against him for the remainder of the season, obviously. But if I'm on the sideline, and he's my teammate at that moment. Oh, I'm hot. I am disturbed. I'm like come on, man. You've gotta you've gotta Neil because two minutes and five seconds. You got a free time because the two minute warning. You have time on your back pocket. You got Rodgers your offices opened up. You're running the ball. Well, the you have their defense on their toes. Everything is in your favor, and we've seen Rogers perform at a high level in this situation when much less time to work with me. Give me a chance. He's played for the Packers falls from Aaron Rodgers. But you did not cross over with timeline Gumri. But you've heard from other players what he's like as a teammate. He's a great teammate just loves them. He loves them, one of the smartest. I mean, this this is so uncharacteristic. That's why was I was almost like what are you doing? Because it just didn't it doesn't fit time on Gumri in smart football in that situation. And again, that's why I can I he stares the blame with coaching staff because I think if you're clear in just concise in Mike McCarthy said in his press conference. The. The idea was to put the ball air sands to to keep the ball in the end zone. Like not to bring it out. But he never said it with conviction. He said that was the idea. But he never said we told time Montgomery or we said we didn't want to return the ball. Let's get it on the twenty five yard line. Put the ball in air, if they had said that I don't think we're even talking about this, right? Some situation. You shouldn't have to say it you right to really great players supposed to know down in distance. They supposed to know circumstances own. Look, we got we got air. Roger that's not. That's not Sam darnold. That's not Josh Rosen. Chef Sam darnold that that press layer definitely not. You know, you ain't got no chance with that. Go hap- with not car 'cause would do that to take a shot at first because you took a shot at that. The fact that Greg I agree. One hundred percent not only should air. Raj of be mad. This whole team whole team should be mad at him. Because he did he denied us of an opportunity to see if air Rogers could fail of succeed and in that situation. What do you hope to happen? Because if you bring the ball out now, you're going to be on the underside of the two minute warning. So you taking the time out from your team. At least a demille it down air gonna get a play Ed is going to get the tour at warranted. Have a time. So every blade of grass employees. You don't have to worry about. We thought his ball in the middle of the field because you got plenty of time. One forty seven probably could go up and down the field. Weiss Mason crossbar to fifty six. This is not about Mason Crosby out to be fair that Rogers like I know he can put about. They are known. Maybe you talk about a different Aaron Rodgers. But let me, but that's what I'm saying. A what he did was. He robbed us is. I get it. Sometimes when you in a situation, you're in the heat of the moment, you don't always think clearly, and you get called of you like, okay, I've been bringing about I've been bringing about been bringing them out, and you lose at this point. I mean, we only down to this quarter. We like to five live the first quarter running kick back fourth quarter, unto two minute. We down to something entirely different. So you have to always constantly conscious constantly be on your toes. It what the really really great ones can do is that when the situation become even more stressful. They can slow it down and still sleeping that boy. Like me get out like before it within that. I never took this. But if outta wrong because I saw everything clearly where you know. Slow down just like. See people come it. This is what I need to do the situation where we will play in Kansas City in nineteen ninety three. They didn't have any more time out. Now, John through-ball. I cooked him that Greg you team for three tub. Situation. They had no timeouts skill. Okay. And Jonathan we a Bollywood four yards behind the line of scream that would have more yard. But he. I caught the ball for the simple fact, I know they didn't have any time out this ball of incomplete. Now that's gonna stop the clock and going give them an extra thirty seconds. I want to eat all that time. Got it. You gotta know that you have high Q, I give you that football. And. No you do. No, nothing's coming. I'm going back to what Michael silver wrote for NFL dot com. And he said that time Montgomery was furious about the previous series and he only played six offense plays the whole day because he's sort of a combo back in a receiver tight but in on his sixth play of the of the whole game. He was in on first and ten from the twenty one yard line on the previous possession and Aaron threw him a little past inside if we could please see that and Aaron had Russia right up in his face and eat through Lohan outside. Please see that here. It is. He just throws it low and outside. And there's no way. I don't know maybe tiger dived and caught it. It's highly doubtful. And what happened at that moment in Kane took out say ganked him right out of the game. And according Michael silver, one of the teammates said anonymously that he was furious that he threw his helmet down on the sideline. And it's possible. There was a little bit of rebellion going on there. A little bit of mutiny like, okay. If you're going to do that. To me. I'll do this back to you. And I'm not saying he's trying to sabotage. He just saying, okay. If it's my turn, it's my turn. I'm just gonna return this in this is where I disagree with the idea that it was two yards deep if we could see the return again, he gets a little head start. And he actually catches the ball right on the goal line. If we could see it like he gets a little yard. He goes he's running forward. But he caught it the balls dropped just barely over the goal line with the hidden intention all along with the run that ball. You do agree with you? But any special teams coach would advise on that kick to return it? That's a returnable kick under any other circumstances. This. So it's not like it went five yards dean, but he had he had to look around and say, oh, I'm from start. You know, like he had to go with it. That's not what happened. He got a little running start any took it at the goal line. And he thought he could make a play. He's been kind of a playmaker and a little bit ways for them over time. He's made a little big plays against my cowboy Stewart three times and games back in two thousand sixteen. He's not a bad player. But he's lost his spot in the rotation to a bunch of back starting with Aaron Jones. So is he just an unhappy camper? Yep. He probably is did he just say I'm going to do this my way problems with he told flat out don't run it out of the end zone taking knee. I don't think he was told to me. But I agree with you. I wanted to see I was just deflated the whole game just fell flat at that point because it virtually ended with his decision. And then I gotta give Romney Wilson. I didn't know he's a fourth. Pick out of Georgia. He just flat out took the ball out of his hand. He's gonna way he just took it out of his you look into shot. He called him. He didn't see him came in from the side. So he caught him plus days to begin with. And it's not good enough. These what they do. They teach not get the tackle get the ball out. He tackled. The foot in literally just wrenches at alexan- and falls down with it on the ground. Got guy. He got the air hole shot. Great again to your point though. It's not that Aaron Rodgers was overreacting or this. His teammates were overreacting as fans watching the game. Robbed us exactly we felt robbed. And again this. This is beyond time on Gumri because he's a great guy. Great teammate all those things, but come on, you gotta know the situation any other situation as you alluded to you bring that ball out one hundred times one hundred out of one hundred you do but two minutes left in the game. With that quarterback with the offices rolling in the way that defense was playing. Okay. If you'd run it to the forty would you give him a pass, I was gonna say Hetty, not even fumbled. We're still finding okay. Because at least you lost your your two minute. Right. I'm out. Yes. You lost? The you lost the free. What you concern with is that you run time off the clock. Your time is of the essence. So you want to save as much as you even if he runs into the board is he's gonna be. So if he gets it to the forty wasn't gonna be one forty eight one forty we won't we don't feel when I'm needed with Aaron Rodgers. I don't care about field position. As a matter of fact, you start me in the stand if you'd like because I have the confidence that he's going to deliver robbed us Mela cat, you know, Melika three eight eighteen. Even when they ask questions, they will a mayor, rob guy. He asked himself in. He robbed us Raj of do because he robbed us of seeing air. Roger that is automate greatness before that Sunday metro bureau. Michael Jordan, Eddie commercial. They forgotten about who to go go-to us. I'm sure. Give up a that. Moses called to ask every will mayor rob that he has already. Yes, they weighed bring to the storehouse in the man opened up the win the Evan emplo, you pour you out a blessing, really. Alone. No, thank you. Let me jump. Dollars. I prefer proverbs twenty three nine within the hearing of a fool for he will despise the. This is the wisdom of your words about that. Wisdom. You got. No with us. Ain't working on your case. You don't days Jason the game to have a look like one day off. There's another one in proverbs that there's a way there's a way that seems right to a man. But the in their of is debt it was a way to time governing. Not it was true. He thought that way was right? Well know, Greg visit the fog is way might be the wave. Absolutely not so impressed by v bands. Greg. Thank you for joining us. All right. The Redskins are they now the team to beat in the NFC. We'll discuss that. All right. The Redskins are still in first place in the NFC after a huge day from Adrian Peterson. He had just under a hundred and fifty rushing yards and a touchdown in a win over the giants. There ahead of the eagles moved to foreign four with a win over the Jags in London and the Cowboys as we know had their by this week and our third place at three and four, Shannon. Who is the best team in the NFC east right now still believe if the eagles because they have the water back and you look at his number the Walker to him. He was going to play yesterday. I saw a lot of thought that win. Did you see that? Did you see these team beat that team? Forty two seven go ahead. So how many wins did they give for that? One. Okay. All these thirteen to two hundred fifty that. He missed the first gay, but they're going to have to do it a little differently than what they did it last year last year. They got Jay Ajayi. He at the trade deadline. They had the winnebago la- blunt. They do not have JJ he towards ACL blunt in Detroit. So skip. They don't have those bruisers handed to a mood. The pow get us for five yard small would the small bag. He'd better at catching the ball out of the backfield Clemett, although he's thirty or he they smile I shouldn't say small, but he's shorted statue about five goes about twenty sproles think it's over him betas easy. He's not the fame guy out more. So they're gonna have to do it a little differently what they did last year. But as long as you got that guy Carleton Winslow, you got the quarterback you have a chance. Adrian Peterson skill. I didn't I did not believe going into the situation. He could get the Carey's. He would need to be successful. Because they talk about what they got Chris Jones. And they had they had somebody p ride their naming all these guys they had well agent Peters. Not gonna show you what he can do in cares. Because yesterday, you know, he had this big law Rudd which put him at because up until that point skip he had really done nothing. And then at his age, Katie take twenty five thirty carries for prolonged. Periods of time, thus far he's proven me wrong. These look better than I thought he would. But I didn't think he could get the carry Dallas. I think the third best team. And I only really know why we need to talk about betas about the Cowboys saquon Barkley saquon didn't do anything saquon Barkley had one hundred yards every game. That's just get back to the line of scrimmage. So they should though yard because they count those yard he'd be well over what bitty because the land is trash, you know, that I know that you watched it. I've. Watched it low enough that offensive lightest terro boat. They got ally good shot and they need to move on. They know what he lie. The nobody of Louis time to move on. So basically this three horse race between the Cowboys the eagles in Washington. And I believe when the dust settle when the smoke clear that whatever analogy you wanted to say when when the rubber meets the road cream rises to the top whatever analogy you want to use all say walk to him. And the eagles will be division champs. Interesting note about walk to them winter is his name Carson wins. Or is it W? I N C E wince as in wide you win. Do you realize that in his two and a half odd seasons in the National Football League? He's fumbled thirty times that Lee. That's that's learning. Thirty. Get lost another one yesterday against those Jaguars. Or what's left of the Jaguars sorta hung on? What was it twenty four to eighteen not to impress? You thought. Blake Bortles breath. Obey. Blake Bortles Plato k yesterday. I'm not a big fan down throw. I saw but they kind of hung in there. And all sudden at the end they got far fetched chance to win the game. I think you are a little nervous about that game. Blake bortles. They have Mark. Brunell the nervous. Yeah. That's true. Did you in one time? Why you gotta bring up all stuff. You were talking about it. That's why you brought it up. So I'm going to hang in with Dallas give them a slight edge because they just turned on the AC because it was getting hot in Dallas night. Turn on the AC. Mark who are Cooper is there, and Amari Cooper is a stud, and I think he will turn back into Amari Cooper for the Dallas Cowboys coach, I can take her leave. But again, maybe they're going to win in spite of their. Hollywood just coaching a year two years ago that you already ready to dispose. I pretty much seen enough. But maybe this year will save him. I'm hoping so because I still think they are positioned to take off right now and go win this division because the eagles have by far the hardest remaining schedule. They got some hard games left. All of them are just the NFL. They got to go to the saints. They got to go to the Rams they still haven't played Washington. They got them twice Alice twice. Four. No right there four. No, right. You better hope. So I know so you know, what you better hope that how he rose than the GM of your Philadelphia Eagles who has dominated the NFL the last two years you'd better. Hope he comes up big at the trade deadline. Alario allergy? How what's the other guy's name? Oh, Dougie Dougie. Okay. I got it. We get Pat peeves. Well, if you get Patrick Peterson all bets are off. I will give you the nod. Hold on. We keep talking about Amari Cooper. They're the reason why I got his fourth year the four pick in the draft on a second teams. Get bailey. The inconsistency. Are we shore those inconsistencies in drops won't rear its head in Dallas? Maybe so but the same coach that you're talking about here. Jon Gruden gave away you call the best defensive player in pro football. So maybe he gave away the best receiver. He needs guide is gonna run spider Waku banana is amazing. How good that's out on television. When you got a call eight in a game. And it doesn't work will you hadn't called plays in ten years later. But I told you this was gonna happen. Outpour toll of this sharp Adamas obey. What did you foretell outpour told of that Jon Gruden tie that asked them Biden? We'll see about that. When he got all five first round picks in the next two years. What good is money? If you don't know what the by with it. So I gotta tell you as a Dallas cowboy fan lifelong I am much more fearful of the Redskins than I am the eagles because the Redskins are legit. I thought the Redskins after physical emotional rivalry battle with the Dallas Cowboys the week before I thought they might just go up to the giants and stink it up yesterday. And they get not now, I know that's mostly on the giants because they're just terrible realize just pathetic. But as I tweeted yesterday, we knew that two years ago, and he's still pathetic. But the point is Washington is really impressing me because their seventh and points allowed. So their defense is legit. And I'm with you Adrian Peterson keeps proving me wrong. We're only about halfway or so and we'll start to hit that that old running back wall. He might. But he was really big yesterday. He got stripped one time and got the giants back in the game. Flee? But I gotta tell you Alex Smith is just flat out better than Kirk causes. Now is not he's much better for them because you can trust him. He's a professional quarterback. He's not gonna throw for four hundred yards. But he'll throw for two hundred something and he'll beat you. If you don't mind me asking. Cousins have an Adrian Peterson last year with Josh read their last year with opposite light intact. Like it was this year last year. But he's Kirk cousins he's at twenty eight million dollar quarterback. You gotta pull it off, man. Hold on. He was one why did X against the Cowboys Shane? Now. Do you realize Kirk cousins Owen four against Dak Prescott? You keep Alex Smith is one or no. As a Redskin against AC press you keep talking about check down. Do you know check down had twenty six told down the fifteen games and the guy in that? Same offense has twenty six in eight games. What's the record five into evident one? Okay. We'll help me out with this here. Why why does it always seem the team that check down Alex Smith leaves gets better after he leaves Libya San Francisco, what did they do when he got up when he wasn't to starting to war cap to them to the Super Bowl? He was really good. He was better than Alex. What happened? When Pat Mahomes became the start Engand ziti. Then good. You notice that being with? The data Kirk Alex leaving and team getting better once he elite with the forty Niners. Pretty good before the big switch to call and capper. Yeah, they're pretty good. But pretty good. I knew Jim Harbaugh say we got a fubo caliber team. We just need to make the only move. They may Andy Reed says, you know, what eighty re traded up he moved heaven and earth and threw in a boat to get a pet Mahomes back home. Why did he do that? If checked out Alex Smith is the guy. Why do they keep doing the cabin the second round two? So why do they keep taking quarterback early? If either guy so you keep calling Harbaugh khaki pants yet. He made the move of the century two at midstream say I'm gonna go with Colin Kaepernick. I call him the Michigan. And he in you somehow in your brain keeps thinking that he's better than fake, Nick and eight we'll see what we see pretty soon. Erbil wanting to say about this urban do what he what he always do to. Okay. You feeling good? Now, they beat Michigan state aid. He will let it go. He fade there Bush league. Oh, they do. They hold enhance. I get all that. Bhutto saying, hey, and we got the Heisman Trophy OTT to time. Oh, tool tag about low of juicy Kylie Holo. Oh ain't over yet. Man. We got twenty five in can you get better than that? Jaydee? Can you get better than nowhere to? No to twenty by Kenny plate. I just want to see if he can play. I don't know they send him into the locker room in a quarter eating hot dogs popcorn in the fourth quarter fix in the second half with eight weeks into the season. Thanks. Figure for second. Played anybody. All I know they're they're not even gonna play anybody this Saturday got ill issue. Big village. You rang wherever you do the same lost Florida where if LSU rate how do we get on this? Oh. They locate LSU love to Florida who loved Georgia who LSU blew the doors off. So we will get the blow to the old off all covered MSU also added fourth and we're going to do them. We got all been coming down the pipeline. Somebody got enjoyed at Atlanta. Devil went down to Joe. You today. You're right. I do like it. I don't like it either. But the point is Jack hanging in as long as how Roseman doesn't pull off a deadline. Got this know, how are we gonna make them happen? He probably will. Of course, that's what he does to me. Didn't he pull it up? I get butter from a duck. How he view water from bricks? Seen him ring. Abridging get WALDO by. Before the fact that the Browns are on. So is losing faith and Baker Mayfield. I got know what you have to say next. Next to Jackson's last week that he would play a bigger role in play calling. But it did not help yesterday. Cleveland is now on a three game losing streak after losing thirty three eighteen to Steelers. Baker Mayfield threw two touchdown passes and an interception in the loss. Shannon. How much is Baker to blame other? You. A large forces of the blame. Just like he got a large portion of the credit when he came in at the half, and he turned it around and give the jets, and then they want to know the game. I think the end up beating Baltimore everybody's killed had pom pom Tony kicking had a middle-sized raw though, he got a lot of the credit. So he deserves a lot of the blame. Here's the thing. He's been the starter. They have eleven takeaways type of most of the NFL, but the only have twenty four twenty one points off those turnovers. So another words he's getting opportunity even when he doesn't have even when the team scored even when they give him extra possessions. He's not doing anything with those positions. Now, I know skip, you know, probably has Sean Lee not tweaked his hamstring. They'd be better had Hugh Jackson started him at opening date. They probably have a better record. That's neither here nor there at the end of the day. We are where we are. He deserves the blame. Did you see that performance? Yesterday's galas. What am I supposed to do with that? You you proud of that you you toll. I turn, you know, it's not your target. You keep telling me. Oh, jeannie. You saw a lot last year. Oh, he threw forty three. Touchdown fiftieth. Good thirty six I'm looking right now. Eight and six. But what will he need to go to Hans creek? He needed throw heating to thirty five without thought another pick over the next gate eight game. Do you see that happiness? Get by because I do not. And I got some good old. I got thrown within. Though the day. But anyways, beta you told me he was accurate head the highest QBR. For the last two years there completing fifty eight percent now with the raid the rules are set up. Now if a quarterback completes under six percent of his passes, eat, not they're good. He not very good better. So. The four rookie quarter real young. Steve he stayed. He would j you want to do he stayed open late. They don't like Steve Owens, your your rights, all your stuff heated. Good of they come into opinion. The necessary skill that, really unnecessary. But anyway of the rookie quarterback's did, you know, he's the only one that's completed. Listen fifty percent of its. Really? Oughta rookie Rosen. Darnold and Allen Baker Mayfield. Who do you want right now who do you want who do you want, Shannon? You're on the hot seat. Oh, get one and stick with it. You just blasted Sam darnold about two topics. Who you like take Baker Mayfield, I'm sticking that. You take pains? Six point six yards per tale. Fort Worth and. So in other words, not only not pushing the ball down. The field told me he could do not only careful gamble gambler. Like oxymoronic becomes gambling in and of itself is ticket but take it. But anyways give. Guys completely lifted season for sit all doing checking the Bodo, and I'm gonna give him and who's the blame supposed to Bill now? I know Hugh is going to get a lot of the blame. Because he's been there for three years. And it doesn't seem like this thing going to turn around. And I don't know how much longer how much fate Jimmy has them in the front office is going to have in, Hugh, but Baker Mayfield deserve the lion's share of the blame. Because he gets lion share of the credit when things go whale. So the anchor Mayfield I saw at Oakland. Did he win the game? When the game it got robbed. No. Baker bounced right back and beat Baltimore home and overtime throw into one Derek willies. Then quickly got hurt his lost for the season. And he's also throwing early in that game to chard who was his favorite receiver guy hung out with and he's gone for the season. And Tom Brady raving about Josh Gordon now, that's all I read about his book, Tom Brady loves him. Some Josh didn't used to be with the Cleveland. Yes. So could he be Derek? Could he be Baker mayfield's favorite target by now? And yeah, I think he could we he's gone. So that's three receivers gone. Can you name the left tackle protecting? Baker mayfield's blindside for me. Nope. You can't because his name is Desmond Harrison he's out of west Georgia undrafted crew in the crib? West Georgia undrafted. In Baker felt like he was in the crib because he was just getting rocked in his crib because it was full of Steelers. Yes. Every time I looked up. He would plant in any would get hit by. From both sides. I thought he was allusive. Remember he had great pocket. Thank you. Thank you. Could we see a play at the end of the first quarter? This is pure vintage Baker Mayfield. Could we see the scape artistry on a play that happened, right? At the end of the first quarter was still a football game. Watch this tell me this isn't scape. Ism woops whips. A little Johnny Manziel going on thirty yards to Jarvis Landry for big completion. That set up a missed field goal. That would have them. Right. Well, I know we're not feel. Oh, no. I know we're not talking about midfield goals when it missed field goal against the opening game against Pittsburgh Steelers would have one or two midfield go than to give New Orleans. Tyrod Taylor started lineup. I know in talking about midfield going out. I think it's my turn. So then at the end of the game. When Baker finally got protected on the first play of the whole game that got protected. He just wings one to somebody named Seth devolve. Some like four string tied in for a touchdown. And can we see that play? This is a rocket now shook up there we go. That's Baker Mayfield. Give him a little bit of time. And that's what's going to happen me time. So what if you don't mind me as what quarterback couldn't you give time that couldn't do that? Ginny. This is Baker Mayfield. I'll take Baker over Sam darnold. That's you got Sam darnold the whole point. That's what separates quarterbacks is the ability when the situation chaotic when you're not getting the kind of protection bet you should or you got in practice. Can you still make those plays? So now, the rookie quarterback is caught in the crossfire that is just like open warfare now between the head coach and the offense coordinator we saw coming in hard knocks because they were adding forty hearty. There you go because Todd Haley's been a head coaching Greg leans defense accord has been a head coach. And all of a sudden, they're at war over thority and control. And all sudden Hughes saying last week and he apologized for it after the game yesterday. But he said last week. I gotta take more control. I wanted to have some some impact on the play call. Yeah. And. How would you like to be a rookie caught net? Cross. I'll tell you. What what I would do if I if I'm the head coach, and I make a recommendation this is not a request. This is an order that. Rick order this. I don't request you to do it sometime. I request an invitation such request your presence. No, no, no. This is not a request. I'm telling you what you're going to do get there's a reoccurring theme with Todd Haley he and Biggby couldn't get alone. Remember when he was calling play the narrow Zona him a him in anquan coup almost got into it on the five and ten along the reoccur, we keep we agree. We like common denominator. So they've been. So if I'm Hugh Jackson, I look at taught. I don't ask you to do anything. I tell you what to do an until until I'm relieved the my duty the head coach. Would I tell you to run the ball you run the ball? Tell you what you throw it sums gotta give. So he's got to go all the report yesterday said somebody's going either, Hugh or Todd, and I'm with you. It would seem like it would be Todd. But I'm not sure about that. Because you came into this year one in thirty one the play Colla though out five Todd. Hey, I call my old place, and I'm going down with my ship. Now, this is my ship on the head coach of the bible, get fired. I'm going to get by calling my place. Do it my way so by Todd Haley rocks. Well, the new GM John Dorsey did not hire you. So will he side with Todd Haley or you see who we go inside where because I'm getting them out to Zoe the he got to go, look, I'm still to coat Hugh couple. You wanna find me? I'll still got to pay me. But let me go in there and his sleeve, I can turn this thing around. What I would do if I was huge at now they got some mutiny on defense. And I must say the let me down. I don't like that not like the mouth, Gary green. Great players shot at his coordinate. Great players, don't I don't recall, and I was in my prime when Reggie White and Bruce Smith and all these great. I never heard them say the game plan when you great you abroad than a game playing. He had a game show. But saying we should've kept it simple. Like, we did the first time and just just played our base defense. No tricks. No wrinkles thing. Yeah. When people watch you take him play. What do you think they go back and do? Okay. That's what they did. So you have to do other things because they prepare for that. In your job is to go get to the quarterback till no matter what the plate. Okay. So the rookie quarterback is caught in all this up evil chaos. The momentum. No, no, no, no, no here down, but up close that doesn't affect you you go do your jobs hard to be now. By the situation the Denver in nineteen ninety two when John. And the day Reeve going back and forth. Photograph to make a decision that in the fake. Get what hey, you're not the quarterback job. So I'm worried about what's going on with them. But guess who go have a job me go and do your job if you if he what if he what you said, he is what he got to show me from maybe next week from zuri to offer Missouri show me, hey, well on Pam homes next to look forward to maybe he'll show you their June. June July two what about Cam Newton and the Panthers look like contenders. Panthers quietly have one of the best records in the NFC. They moved to five and two yesterday after blowing out the ravens Cam Newton threw two touchdown passes and ran for another in the win. All right, Shannon. Are you surprised by how well camas plan? No. I'm not surprised talked someone very close to Cam in Cam went back into the lab realizing that a lot was going to be on his plate. He knows that. When the Carolina win. He gets a lot of the credit when they lose he gets a lot of the blame. But Cam knows and he knew that since then BBC's, and he hadn't played very long time. And if you look at him now those numbers of comparable as far as passer rating yard or game interception rate is down. But one thing that they're doing skipper. They're protected him cambozola been ten times he's over the last two years you've seventy-one times. That's too many hits on your quarterback. I think north Tournus done a great job nor Turner in his system is under the center five steps. Football skip bang aches, six routes comeback rolled out speed out. That's what he is. But he's doing a lot of this camp from the shotgun in his doing it from the zone Reed. Allow him to throw the football allow him to throw RPO's. I've come to the realization instead of saying, you know, what they need to have a running back to run the ball and take the Cam going leave the team in rushing. That's just the way it he'll get betas. I wish there was a better way that I could defy what's going on in Carolina. But Cam their best running back. He also happens to be the quarterback. He then phenomenal shape a couple years ago. He changed if that so badly, he only seafood night. He doesn't eat meat product. Thank you've done away with dairy. You followed. I g he's doing cardio heath swimming early in the morning, he's putting his time in. So when the person told me that came went back into lab reassess where he was where he wanted to be. He knew he was not living up to what Cam Newton should be. He is now Cam special at an I'm happy to see what he's been able to do. They got to be a major player in this game. I don't know if they can catch the saints and win this division. But I do believe they will be a wild card in the NFC south will get to teams out of this division. But Cam Newton is play. The Cam Newton twenty fifteen. He is an I'm shot. He's completing sixty six percent of his fastest which is a career high to this point. And he's on pace to throw his second most touchdown passes and his best ever is lowest ever interceptions. That's pretty great. I got to know north Turner very well back in the days. I was writing books about the Dallas Cowboys spent a lot of time around him in the north that I got to know, then I thought would be fire and water with Cam just wouldn't work. I thought they would clash early and often in the buffer was supposed to be somebody that Cam could go to and talk to in its Scott north sun is the quarterback coach. So you don't even have a buffer. It's like the quarterback coach and the coach, oh, it's father and son. So it's you against the father and son if it comes to that. But clearly, they're not clashing it on it. It's possible north has mellowed a little bit. And finally said I'm going to try something different. Because his first product was Troy Aikman. Obviously pure. Dropback passer as you will ever see him absolute dart thorough from the poverty there, Jim. But I think he had Jim Everett versus the Rams, but he wasn't a quarterback receiver. Right. So he wouldn't even coach in the quarterback. I got you. But but again, the guy I know coaching Troy Aikman. And he was just great with Troy, in fact, he turned around choice career early on when choice struggling coordinators. All he knew was dropped back passing. In San Diego. I will say this Cam is delivering the football the best I've ever seen throwing it. I've not seen throw it. Like this QBR does not like him because he's fourteenth in the NFL sixty five which is some above average in because he makes a few big plays. He'll miss some smaller plays, and they they won't be great on third down. But but you're right. He's their best running back, and he's barely holding off believe it or not Mitchell Trubisky for the quarterback rushing lead so far because he's got three hundred nine yards to Mitchell's two hundred ninety six yards rushing. But Cam does it as a running back? He's got call placed Trubisky just takes off and scrambles written as big gains. So what are the new toys here? We'll I told you DJ more is my favorite receiver in the whole draft and cams got him now, and they went and got him Torrey Smith. So he's got another veteran deep threat receiver toward in Japan. He did not great. I think the big Olsen is back. That's huge form funches their leading receiver. And obviously a little McCaffrey is a great security blanket. You can toss it to him or occasionally handed to him and take a little heat and pressure off. So I like them a lot. They got to gaze of New Orleans to the last three weeks. And you know, what who knows acid? I don't think they can catch him. But the last two games might be for the division. I told you New Orleans has details. This closing schedule of any contender. So that's going to be tough for them. But remember the reason cams really impressed me as they barely lost it land. They lost by seven Atlanta. And by six excuse me, Washington. And they got deep. They can get out the they can pressure you. And they got the best mental back in football. No, oh, new Keithly? Thumping vote. I mean, Baltimore's not as loud to now. Baltimore is a good team. They thought at home we got to see if they can start went on the road. But I'm still not convinced that nor of an Cam will be a good marriage all the way through the season. I don't know when it gets a little colder and the pressure rises. I just don't know Cam building Cam built forever. You about what he had to go to the aim is a beat. Oh, you daddy. Did this? He tried to sell that. And we bought mice have to suspend. You think what he went to Florida gets booted out the Blinn junior college and wins, the national then he's oh hell I mean, he what seventeen nothing on the road at Bama in Campsie. Why watch this since our about? Okay. Yeah. Well, I think the division is worried about Cam right now because planet his highest level. This is indie the level. The number of the baby only four yard difference at bats per game that what he threw MVP season. But like you said that sixty six percent completion. Because camp has never been a high completion percentage gotten he throws the ball down the field in sometimes motion because he throws a lot up is back but the ball tales autumn or slat fails ony, but Cam playing unbelievable this year. I'm happy for. Get back to that MVP year. He said before the season it has haunted him. He wants to get back to it. All right. A quarterback in a different position yesterday. Tough day for June's, really. It's been a tough season for the guy is he going to ever start the engine Tampa. Faucet close to the Bengals yesterday thirty seven thirty four and all the blame is on James Winston. He tied a career high with four interceptions, including a pick six in the third quarter James was and benched and replaced by Ryan Fitzpatrick who led the bucks all the way back to tie and Winstons four starts this year. He is thrown at ten interceptions after the game. James Andrew cutter talked about the QB situation. Let's hear it. We don't need to talk about today's not the day. I'd have to decide that. Right. I mean, I don't have any problem making decisions, and I'll make it when it's time to write. But now's probably not the right time to make it can't speak going whether nature late you gonna play games like that. But I just can't turn the ball gotta fix it. It was very humbling. But is not about me is that we were in that position. He had to make a decision in fits came here and fought his tail off phase respond greatly. We came back in time to game up and gave us gave gave us a chains. All right, Shannon. How tough is James finished and Tampa. This is tough because they've already picked up his option for twenty point nine million a year five the thing is only guaranteed against injury. Now, this might be RG three situation. Remember skill. They wouldn't let RG three get on the field because he gives him injury. Now, you're on the hook for twenty one million. The more. I look at it in the more. I think about I think he's played his last down for the Tampa Bay Buccaneers. Because I thought well, you know, what maybe he can get back into fifth rose five sessions. But are you willing to run the risk of him getting injured at he be on the hook for twenty one million next year? I believe they're moving on from Jayme with Winston at the season. I felt that before he even got back that this was going to be his last year. Yep. There too many things that have happened that Jamie put himself in harm's way. You know? Bad decision you. They say repeated the mistakes are choice. Okay. James Keaton himself in those bad positions, that's a choice making bad choices bad decision. And then if play on the field for starts tennis can't win with that. You can't have that. So the quarterback that I believe for Tampa long-term is currently not on the roster. So I believe fifth probably going to bring this thing home. They're not gonna want to run the risk of James getting hurt and have them be on the hook for twenty one million in it's reported that DJ John Jackson was to be out said James is turning the ball over light. Jay cutler. I can't deal with it. So we're gonna find out tomorrow because I think the trade deadline tomorrow about four o'clock eastern time. So we'll see what's going to transpire. But I believe he's played his left out in Tampa. So do I in in the past. I've defended James not for off the field but on the field. And I thought it was the guy. I just said from the start he'll be better than Mark. Mario. And I still think he's better than Marcus. But he didn't play like it yesterday in. I just think his time is up in Tampa. They're they're only three and four. So it's not like a complete disaster. I think the fans would prefer fits magic because he has more fun to watch. And by the way. Fits magic is thirteen touchdowns to only five interceptions. I know he's capable throwing four or five, but his QBR's third NFL. And he does qualify. So he's he's having a great year there two and two with him as a star. They're one and two Jayme. Remember what I said about him Noakes Baktay shit down by two and a half touchdowns so expect if you lose this game who cares? There's no pressure on him. And he boom boom boom tied game to poor convergence data gate, they get to walk out. We'll see now he's back into the starting lineup. Because remember how did James getting starting lineup getting started lined up. He went to Chicago. And biff Patrick it through three more inefficient did after he had thrown ineffective. What on that Monday night game? He did. So but knowing that it's got twenty one million. If this guy get hurt I'm gonna be on the hook. And I really want to move on. And only Blake Bortles since two thousand fifteen has more turnovers. All. James? I'm sorry, bro. You had every opportunity to give every opportunity to see you have come up with the just for perspective. Would you believe that Tampa Bay's defense is now fall into dead last points allowed thirty three point three a game that is horrendously bad and he loved quantity. Zander, and as you said to Sean wants out in. I have never been very impressed with Dirk cutter chasing lick their GM after hard knocks of two years ago. It just left me wanting more from both of them. And I just think this whole thing's gonna get blouse cleaned by the Glazer family. I just think at some point. They're just going to say enough we need to start over. They got fits just to get him through the year and keep people moderately happy. Maybe brain his back break-up. He's like the. He's like the ultimate back. Oh, yeah. And the thing is, you know, you look to go into the draft your good a quarterback, you can have know probably groom and leading for half the season. But I just don't see James come coming back at twenty million dollars. That's that's only guarantee against injury. You don't want to run that risk and have him get injured and he's on your book with twenty one meal. Well, we're back to picking quarterbacks. And as you always say, what did he show you in college? He made bad decisions off and on the field because he forced a lot of balls again. I love him as a leader because he wants to win at all costs. Like, I'm gonna try to make that play because I know my teammates need me to make. Well, if you throw it to the other team, they don't need you to do that. Think about it. Dude has Mike Evans who they taught receiving is DJ the DJ might be the one of top two or three deep threats in the history. Play the game. You got OJ Howard? Pretty you got guys that can make plays for you. Just keep it out. The other teams hand it. Let your guys make plays for you. But whatever reasons get if you have a bad habit of the quarterback with college normally bring that trait with you and what he did in college turn the ball over especially at an alarming rate. And he's turned the ball over since he's been in the NFL and on alarming rate when you first of all if you got if you're laughing with the last thing, you would want them to do skip is to be on the field more than they absolutely have to be in when they just gave up a test. Then you put right back on the field. You just pick that only exacerbates the situation. So Tampa Tampa is not in a very good spot. But this sort of them well. You. Remember, you flat fired lovey men after eight oh you wanted to become fairly fairly came new ping. And there was about the higher away car, and you okay? You get what you deserve because students. New I agree with that. You're exactly right. And now they fired another defensive cord. Yeah. Me about him while loves meeting. Yeah. He's got a lot of chances. You know, it might just be the end. All right. We're gonna be right back is that more undisputed. We do have some breaking news reports say Hugh Jackson has just been fired by the Browns Jackson, only won three games lost thirty six during his three seasons in Cleveland, Shannon. What is your reaction to the news? I'm not surprised Amerique Cabot who writes for the Cleveland Plain Dealer skilled, and when it comes to the Cleveland Browns the by does. And he said it was going to be either Hugh Jackson or Todd hailing one of those guys we're going to have to go where they made it abundantly clear who they wanted to leave. What I'm supposed here. The thing at one fifteen you don't fire, Hugh O and fifteen you don't fire Hugh to five and one Hugh you got to go. What did you expect him to be fixing to a February one give them to get out of here? You know? Goodwill, Cleveland, not very good. They're they're hard. Not gave us a false sense of what the Cleveland Browns could be. I think I had them it. What six I haven't been six games they could possibly win. If they started Baker Mayfield. Well, Josh, Gordon is still there that would stops. Get stop is not Tom Brady's new favorite receiver. Well, if you think he'd be helping Baker Mayfield showed up on time he was possessed. Okay. That's fair. I'm good with this. And I have supported and defended Hugh over the years, but he lost me during hard knocks as I've said many times on this show. And I think he got a power struggle with two former head coaches who are big personalities that both coordinators and their fire eighty show that during hard knocks vying for attention and control of the football team. And of the hard knocks, you know who can take over hard knocks for a while Greg Williams, and it was Todd Haley Hughes fighting back and hugest felt like he was flailing to me now for the last four or five games. And he's trying to fight with Todd Haley publicly last week and try to get some new impact and input on the. Game plan, and it's just wrong. And finally, John Dorsey said, no that's enough. And guess what you wasn't John Dorsey guy. We're that surprise. I was kinda surprised that he was able to keep the giant John Dorsey with high because normally skip like you say GM break, I won't my guy. I won't what I heard I know this guy, but they gave you a chance, but I'm not surprised, you know, Hugh headed opportunity he didn't get the job done. So he has another year left on his contract. He's still going to make some money. But I still believe Hugh is an excellent play caller deserve. Then we'll get it. And I hope he gets a coordinator job because that's what I think he's best at and he deserves a shot, but these this was a troubled football team. This will clarify the situation. Maybe Baker will start to rally rally nothing. They gave us a false watching them. Oh hard. Seven eight game say windows, seven eight game. I told you Beth cave near you'll six and I would be very short Higginson get hurt and Derek Willie. Now. Thanks for listening to the undisputed podcast. I'm Johnny Taft. Join us again at the same time tomorrow morning, nine thirty eastern. We'll see you then.

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FTL2021-07-21

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FTL2021-07-21

"Tong law. It is free talk live. You're welcome to join the discussions. We're going to be having tonight. That number six zero three two eight three six one six zero against six zero three two eight three six one six zero with you tonight. It's aria angie and bonnie's among the conversations that we're going to be having tonight to the fearmongering that i saw today on the drudge report was just insane. None of the articles are really worth talking about. It's about the lambda coping. Variant the gamma kovic vary and a monkey pox outbreak. The fearmongering regarding disease has gotten out of control because the monkey pox in particular is one person. The outbreak is one entire person who had monkey pox. We're we're in a state of panic. Everyone is going to be a pandemic. that's what they're suggesting. Of course the binding administration actually released one of the one hundred and thirty or so people. Stealing want on them obey. I don't remember the exact number. The binding administration released one of them so small progress there and a fearless boxing club. Agem has decided that they are not going to allow customers who have been vaccinated against cova. I think that is a great idea. It's an interesting twist that i didn't see coming. Certainly when i say that once you get the vaccine you shed right. And if you're briefly right yeah but if you're boxing you're going to be intimate with people. And why are you going to require people to have if you don't believe in it and it's also pretty fearless because they're from canada. Which is i would think even more you know vaccine crazy so despite its bold name there is one thing. The founders of toronto's fearless boxing club seemed to be scared of vaccinated people according to an instagram post. The gyms vaccine policy states that people who've received the experimental cova vaccine will no longer be accepted as members now. I wonder when they did that. How many members they actually lost. I don't it probably not many and part of that will get into the reasons. Why but they're not taking at least new customers. Who have the vaccine. I imagine people who have the vaccine no longer want to be there. Though i wouldn't i wouldn't either but i wouldn't have gotten the vaccine right me either. So the policy states. The gyms current members include doctors nurses teachers parents and youth who quote fill safer waiting until more research is done on the side effects being discovered right now. I don't know what they're talking about. Because i don't pay much attention to any of the covered. Nineteen i say that but like kobe. Nineteen is we've talked about over the last eighteen months. But i don't know what new side effects they're talking about. But i heard conan say yesterday that eleven thousand people have died from the vaccine and i want to know where he got that number. But i didn't ask. I don't know where he got it. All of the nineteenth being used in canada where approved by health canada and subject to large clinical trials. That showed their safety and efficacy. According to the city of toronto vaccines quote met the same safety and quality standards required for all vaccines. No steps were skipped in the approval process. And as i understand it. That's true in the united states as well except the united states. Just allow them to joke to the front of the queue. Don't they usually test vaccines. La like give them donna. Rats are chickens or something to make sure that they're not going mutate them. Did they not do that. I don't think so. No we were the guinea pigs right. I don't know i just assumed. They tested it on some sort of animal before the well animal testing anyway a few months what to have the benefit of a cure or treatment than it should be tested on humans and not helpless animals. Who aren't going three. Yes but i don't even think that what they said is true that they put it through the same tests as every other vaccine because like nikki is always saying that some medicines go through like ten year You know trials before they're ever released. Maybe it's not vaccine trials required. Maybe it's just something that the vaccine manufacturer wants to because the normal vaccines. Can't you sue if something happens. Like you can follow suit and say hey. I got sick or disabled from this axiom. A do not know but the covert vaccine that there is no responsibility there. According to blog to whoever that is fearless studios was founded by professional boxer. Muhammad aberdeen and professional. Sir crystal glazier hope laser. Roscoe's excuse me. It's instagram bio states. That the business was built in the lockdown opened in the lockdown. And we're not going anywhere. That's the part that i find amazing that they created this business during the lockdown. And we're open during the lockdown. I don't think i mean gyms where marketplace's most heavily targeted and there are a lot of gyms closed down there. Were and some of them. Haven't come back. No it's history. Grande page has around twenty. Five hundred followers also includes a section called cova bowl seemingly complaining about masks and lockdowns. I don't know because they didn't link to any of it. Yeah just complaining. We don't we don't wanna put anything. That could be. Make them look right. They were just complaining. They didn't give any examples. Recent instagram stories of quote kept freedom. Who was kept freedom. What are these people even talking about. Why did they live in toronto. I don't question but the article does talk about that. It shows clips of mostly unmasks children inside boxing and playing. I surprised this mostly. I would expect it to be all of them. I couldn't imagine doing something like boxing while we're no that's insane reached by vice world news wednesday morning. Benin said he couldn't do an interview because he was really busy right now. It's unclear what fearless business plan is given that more than sixty five percent of adults in toronto are fully vaccinated. Well i don't know anything about the united states about canada really because i'm an american pretty ignorant. Most countries but thirty five percent of adults is still a lot of adults. I think and how many children right and i imagine there are plenty of people willing to go to the gym who aren't vaccinated the gems. Google reviews average one point seven stars with many reviewers complaining about the anti vaccine policy a few months so people who aren't even customers are leaving them bad reviews. I mean they can't be customers right if they have their vaccines a few months ago fearless posted on instagram. That doing what's right isn't always easy alongside a photo of headlines muhammad ali for draft evasion during the vietnam war the fo stated that the gym had received hundreds of messages of support. So these aren't libertarian. Certainly probably not well. They're criticizing muhammad ali for draft evasion. So he was. They were saying he did what was right. And it wasn't easy. Because maybe maybe maybe you're correct they doing. What's right isn't always easy alongside a photo of headlines. Just you're correct. Oh okay i misunderstood so they. They may have some libertarian-leaning antiwar and saturday night the draft. Yeah fair point. The photo stated that jim had received hundreds of messages supports. The news about fearless comes as local businesses. Grapple with whether or not to require staff and patrons to be vaccinated in the united states businesses are requiring employees to be vaccinated and apparently they can fire you if you're not vaccinated and we learned last night that they can in fact require the same thing of customers they can't actually say hey proved that you're vaccinated or take off your or putting mascot. They could say mask required. Unless you prove that you're zahra signs around businesses here that say that that you have to prove your vaccinate approved but you have to have a mask on if you're not vaccinated those two. I walked right by them. Because they're my health is not their business exactly and i'm not going to let it make their business so good. Life gems recently sparked controversy with a chain tweeted. It would not re. Why do they keep introducing new names that they haven't explained who who is good life gyms. They didn't say anything about them at any point prior to this. This hawks news no is this is drudge report but they have a terrible terrible writing staff clearly other businesses have taken a different tack including toronto restaurant. Chanticleer which will require customers sitting at the bar to show proof of vaccination so presumably you go into this bar and get a seat at the table but if you want to come to the bar where the cool kids set you have to prove that you're vaccinated because you can't social distance at the bar. That's the point up. The bar strip. Club phil morris told the toronto sun at steph for all fully vaccinated customers will be required to have at least one dose. I don't understand that one dose. Is it that useless. Yeah that's what i always think. An initiative called safe to do which was listing ontario establishments vaccinated staff shutdown tuesday so they ontario establishments had a website called safe to do where they were listening. Rest ahead vaccinate. A staff tweeting that the businesses. The database were being subjected to negative reviews and hateful messages. This was truly unexpected. I started this website less than a week ago and it was supposed to be apolitical but immediately became political because this entire thing immediately became political. What are your thoughts should business actually require customers to not be vaccinated if they wanna shop there. I kind of like the idea. What do you think six zero. Three two eight three six one. Six zero waited six zero three two eight three six one six zero. It is free talk live. You're welcome to join us. Six zero three two eight three six one six zero number. If you wanna do that that six zero three two eight three six one six zero this vaccine stuff so well to me man. I never thought. I would live in a society that was telling people. They had to rebuild their medical history to strangers if they wanted to take part in society. But i guess that's just sort of because vaccine childhood. Vaccines are just so common that you know your typical nosy. Nancy is willing to ask strangers that they received a. What are they immunize. Kids against their huns of vaccines. I know but. I don't know what any of them are. Four impacts. is there a chicken pox. Chickenpox vaccine why it's so it's such an innocuous disease i get vaccinated at all as a kid and i got chickenpox. Twenty bucks really twice. I thought you could only get once twice if i recall correctly. I think you can get more than what's been. It's extremely rare as bad. This time is the first time third grade. no idea. yeah. I was one years old and i still remember taking oatmeal bats somehow payroll probably like your first memory that you remember. I don't know. I have a few really early memories. Well let's go to the phones. We got calling from new hampshire dave. You're on free talk live. Oh i've got you muted sorry holiday or maybe all ladies go ahead can so i have some updates with regard to the the fallout from The capitol hill protests. Now i don't know what these protests are. When when did this occur. i'm talking about the capitol hill. Protestors january sixth. And the follow up. Rach gotcha the new hampshire capital arrest. I thought you meant okay. I'm with you now. The january six quote insurrection. Where a number of unhappy people conducted a no knock raid on the government and the government didn't appreciate it correct. This is a june sixteen article. Union leader in new hampshire I think i like i say by their even shell. You know them and you can hear what people are planning about. You can tell you the bad guy is and here's what the federal government is complaining about Okay the the headline is quote in h man plead guilty to quote unlawful ticketing unquote unlawful picketing. Yeah and that was something. He apparently did in on january six at the capitol building is also what savage did up Sununu is house this year or last year. Whatever footloose is how i know. Yeah so the guy's name is thomas gallagher The federal government admit. They did not commit any violent acts but he's he was. He's facing up to six months in prison after pleading guilty in yes For being inside the building why so he accepted a plea deal simply right correct and hit and the plea deal. He got gave him six months in prison. It's a maximum sentence of six months in prison Based on his plea okay. So he's he for being in the building at a time when you know is it. I've never been to the capitol building is it. Is it or is it not open to the public in general. Yeah i've been in and out of it. You know it was go big deal. I don't even remember going through security. That was back in the eighties. I was at the iran. Contra hearings yeah. I assumed it was open to the general public. So this guy went in you know with some people who were unhappy and presumably. He was one of these unhappy people and ultimately is getting charged with unlawful picketing. Because they don't have anything else they can charge him with so just because he was holding a sign. Because isn't that. What picketing means what. You don't even have to hold a sign as that happened. That's when footloose got arrested. Here in new hampshire when he was trying to quote protest at sununu holding a candle so it doesn't even have to be assigned to claim that everyone at this protest behaved appropriately. That is not the claim. I'm making but he's supposed to be charged with what he's done right not with what someone else is dying or some new fears. It's spreading through the country. That's not what you get charged with. You could start with what you do and being in the building. And apparently they've set the federal pass apparently also did he tried to stop other people from doing any vandalism video of him Trying to stop someone throwing a chair so he he was in there. I mean for all we know he was there for the purpose. I'm trying to stop everybody from hurting anyone. Well they the government and the federal government will use whatever they want to make Your charges whereas like for example in. Nobody's last hearing. They used the january six Thing to make his To make their case he should be in jail still. I can't remember exactly what they said but they said like oh yeah. They compared a tweet that he made to some things that were said on january six. It was like they were just like. Oh i'm going to bring up january six and that makes Nobody bad bad bad man. There's another Line in the article. That is telling here quote. Police ordered No way quote gal i. I'm sorry. I keep looking for the wrong one Commission person there was something about the. Oh yeah quote. Federal prosecutors said gallagher knew he did not have permission to enter the capital that day unquote. So you have to have again. That's what you're giving six months in jail for something like that you you went into a government building and you knew you weren't supposed to well who said you're not supposed to go into a government building. I think our buildings. And don't you have the right to petition. Your government know apparently not right but you should have the right. And i mean essentially picketing is doing nothing but petitioning the government if the guy was even picketing which i mean. They've got their own little weird legal definition. That you know somehow includes just standing in a place sure but even if he was picketing with the sign he that's constitutionally protected right. It didn't have permission to come into my house march sixteenth. Why didn't they hit him with you. Know trespass or something like that if he's if you have to have permission to be somewhere that well that's trespassing no trespassing unless they ask you to leave and you don't after so i don't know if he did that it says thomas gallagher entered a guilty plea to a charge of quote parading demonstrating or picketing in it capitol building unquote. Is that illegal. Is it illegal to demonstrate. no it was. i didn't know it was. Yeah really even. I didn't know that. I didn't know parading was. We should have a parade in the capital. Would you can't it's illegal. Well it's like. It's like the joke. German expression all all all revolution voting because revolution has been forbidden. Yeah that's bizarre. You can't to petition your elected officials in their place of work. Which is you know where you would generally expect to be able to petition them. Absolutely insane day. Thank you so much for the updates now. Did you guys ever pick out a date on when you're going down to the to the federal reserve building. Yes mr. bitcoin has well. I don't know if the federal reserve mr. Bitcoin has scheduled first demonstration on monday at ten. Am at the hamster. Federal building and later on possibly tuesday or later monday. He will probably go the federal reserve building in boston. But that had not been scheduled yet. Yeah so i'm planning to if you go to bitcoin. Gandhi dot net. I have Put updates their ten. Am the man you've got you guys do not stay up late to you. I do and i was going to be hard for me but He did it at times. Gotcha so that's monday at ten. Am i would love to say. I would be there. But there's no way i'm going to be conquered by ten. Am but you can find out more about bitcoin. Gandhi dot net of course. Bitcoin g. a. n. d. h. dot net. When we get back. We're going to talk about how to have a healthy sex light. Six zero three two eight three six one six zero if you wanna weigh in. When monster hunter international discovers of isaac newton's ward stones being auctioned off they decide to steal it and use it to destroy the chaos god once and for all when a mysterious thief ends their plan and it soon becomes a race against time as something much older and infinitely more evil awakens in the jungles of south america. Monster hunter bloodlines by new york times. Bestselling author larry korea and being books visit monster. Hunter nation dot com for more. It's free talk. Live six zero three two eight three six one six zero if you want to join the conversation at six zero three two eight three six one six zero and as promised we're going to talk about how to have a healthy sex life or what the key to a healthy sex life is other than the obvious answer being sex. Oh i'm sorry. Hold on that always makes for a good sakes life yes. You're not having a good sex life if you're not having sex doesn't mean by yourself like a partner is important. A partner helps you yes. I don't think it qualifies as sex that there's not a partner probably not but it still. I mean it can be enjoyable but it's not as enjoyable as with partner. So let's get into this article because they think the solution is mindfulness. Yeah i think being present is kind of what they're saying should happen during sex. It talks about the article says to prevent performance and zaidi from interfering with a healthy sex life. Mindfulness is the answer. Oh to prevent performance anxiety. Yeah it it goes and talks about what people are thinking when they're having sex and it's not all this is really nice as feels really good as am i doing. Okay am i performing okay. I am i doing this right. Oh okay let mason. Yeah and so. People are anxious so they're not really in the moment when i am i gonna say when i was a kid but when i was younger and i i started having sex. I kind of just figured this out. Naturally like i would always be really nervous and just like I don't know i. I really had to enjoy it by not thinking about what i'm doing exactly and that's what it says if you're mindful you're present so you're you're thinking you're on whatever is happening at the moment. Well that's true of all things right. Yeah if you're if you're having a rock concert and you're worrying about whether or not you're doing okay. Then you're not having you're not fully enjoying yourself because you're busy worry exactly. Are you worried about what you have on her worried about. People are looking at you are. You're looking full dancing around. I mean and then there's anxiety there as well that's so true would like dancing. Yeah you just have to have to think about it. And i'd go. I can't do that in regard to test. But i'm not much of a dancer in the first place. If you have a couple of drinks then could you do it. I don't know. I've never not usually out in a setting where there's debt when i'm drinking. So that's a challenge. Probably still pr- probably not but it says that's not one of the things that i do to express joy. Yeah so i used to think the same thing and then i started going out to bars that actually played music. I like aka gay bars. And i realize actually really loved dancing. A thing like oh. That's just not something i like to do. Our loved to dance. I i totally cardio. The exercises great. If you do it correctly the next day you're sore interesting. So what else does this order. I'll have to say. I could offer hold on sorry no problem Goes on and talks about what you can do is feel the person. Listen to their breath and that will bring you into the moment interesting that that sounds a little creepy. Whatever helps i guess. I don't generally. I want to sit and listen to the sound of your breathing. Could a phrase that in a way. That was a little bit less creepy right. Well i don't think any phrase it exactly like that. But i was still waiting for the order. You're welcome who it says. Recognize the problem. People with anxiety around sex tend to use avoidance as a coping method mechanism. You won't get any better if you don't do it. So that people avoid sex because of performance anxiety. Exactly because that's that's that's stupid that's how you get over performance anxiety. No every musician. Whoever got on stage was nervous the first time they did it are the first fifteen times or yeah or more likely the first hundred right and as you busier bigger the crowds are gonna get bigger said. Then you're going to have anxiety about that as well. Excellent point my happen when you're having sex to you the crowds bigger says something that you can do is talk to your partner about it. So they they know how you feel that. It's always good advice. Yes but communication is key to any healthy successful relationship too. Many people don't communicate in their relationships. And that's why they fell. It's hard sometimes to communicate. People become emotional. They become angry stuff and they don't wanna talk or they're they're talking but they're not communicate they're nasty and so it's it's hard to be kind and patient and especially if you're upset but that's when it's most important exactly yeah. Mindfulness is the perfect counter. To sexual anxiety since thwarts worry about impending ills inviting you to become fully present in the here and now rather than thinking. There's a right or wrong way to feel or think it and giving moment you practice acceptance in this state of simply being ultimately lowering stress levels instead of being preoccupied with the pastor future. Your awareness dedicated to simply being right there. That's awesome and i mean that's good advice. All around right. People should do more to live in the moment rather than the future or the past or whether or not they're being judged or worrying or and you know just anxiety in general but you know we live in a society where everyone claims to have anxiety or depression or something like that. There's a medication for all of it. There is. I was looking into dog training because i finally got permission to you. Know google dog stuff now that i have a dog and one of the things i was looking into about golden retrievers. I don't remember exactly what i had clicked on. It was some some training thing but at the end it was like your dog may have anxiety or depression. Oh my gosh are you kidding me. They're diagnosing dogs with depression. Look they have medications for that for dogs as well. I am not a fan of killing animals but if you have a dog who suffers from depression. Get your vet to just put her down on my goodness why because a dog is not i mean i would say the same of a human being with his job so because have like a loss of owner or something of that nature and so it was like an onset depression of something that like an event with depression. That sadness right but they might be depressed pop after that. Sure okay. But the sense in which they use. It wasn't because of a loss of an owner that they met the owner is crazy. And there's depressed. They have to live with that owner. They met his medically diagnosis. Does your dog have a serotonin imbalance my goodness. I feel like dogs. There's a test in anxiety separation anxiety. Luckily my puppy does not have to deal with that but we had to deal with that with a german shepherd. We had when we first moved here and i took a trip to north carolina and michael came keen and he stayed overnight and he came back in the dot had chewed through the water softener system in the basement and he was like The dog has to go. I do. I do know a girl who has a dog who suffered from separation anxiety and when they would go to work the dog. Just bash its head on on on this crate. Alternate giving us brain damage. I'll now ultimately becoming crippled and having to be put down so separation anxiety can certainly be a real thing with dogs. But they're social creatures. Found someone who was there all the time. Oh awesome yeah. The dog was good so but dogs suffering from depression anxiety. I don't see it. But i see it a lot in humans clicking on your average. Lgbtq person's twitter profile just a litany of mental illnesses in their bio. Why do people advertise. That's something i don't get. I had ptsd and bipolar disorder and adhd. Why are you going around you sympathy or they want everyone to be prepared when they meet them. I think it's sympathy and attention. Because i mean i definitely don't think that you should be ashamed of those things but they're also just. It's actually not part of you. It's just like a state of mind. You're in sometimes to have like ptsd or whatever you know like. It's not like you should live like that every day. It's not part of your personality in. it's also not you know you don't get a cookie for it. You know what they think. They should get a cookie for it. i think. But it's so weird to me. It's like any other disease or illness you have. You don't advertise to people that you have a krones. Yeah thank you but you do advertise to people for whatever reason on the internet that you have. Ptsd or bipolar disorder or adhd or whatever. It's just because they want sympathy and attention. As far as far as i can tell. I think the real disease there is social media because nobody has ever done something like that. I feel like until social media existed. It's like tumbler age thing but what would have happened anyway. Without social media. I tend to think that it would have. Maybe it happened but there wasn't so many diagnosis one of the facebook groups. I'm in. I actually saw it. I remember the name of group. Man's playing harder. Daddy is actually. The name of the girls started saying you know. I have undiagnosed have self diagnosed bipolar disorder. That's not a thing. You don't have self diagnosed anything. You don't have anything diagnosed. You wanna feel special. What are your thoughts. Maybe we're wrong here. Maybe mental mental illness is abounding six zero three two eight three six six zero. This is free talk live. it's free talk. Live six zero three two eight three six one six zero. That's the number. You wanna join the conversation that six zero three two eight three six one six zero we do tonight. It's aria jeep and funny. And i wanna tell you about bitcoin dot com. It's the best place to learn about about. Bitcoin and bitcoin cash just getting started at the top of the page. Just takes you a couple minutes and you can learn the basics of this world change lachey and it's important too because it is world changing technology. The world is moving very quickly to catch up to catch the boat before it ships before it set sell. I don't know why they got so confused in my head but if you do already know about cryptocurrency checkout news dot bitcoin dot com. Stay up to date on all the news headlines. That's relevant you. That's news dot. Bitcoin dot com all in a sleek and easy to use modern websites. So dave ridley called earlier and he. He talked about an update of a new hampshire resident. Who was at the the insurrection that took place on january six. I got something about that. I did not even know that. They created a commission to investigate the january six insurrection as they're calling it but evidently they did congressman bennie thompson. The chairman of the new house. Select committee to scrutinize the capital attack. Says he will investigate. Donald trump as part of his inquiry into the events of the sixth day he sees as the greatest test to the united states. Since the civil war so presumably january six right was worse than both world wars the at phnom war because so many people died yes. Evidently there were like five people who died so how whenever protesters and like gas right in an interview with the guardian said that he is also prepared to depose members of congress and senator trump and senior trump administration officials who might have participated in the that left five dead and nearly one hundred and forty injured. What is disposed me in a depose. Yeah i think it means. Take them out of office doesn't it. If you'd like to pose the king your removing the king from power. i don't know and i can't just go up. I'm pretty sure that's what it means. Absolutely tops a set of his intent to pursue a wide ranging inquiry against the former president and some of his most prominent allies. Nothing is off limits the aggressive move to place trump in the crosshairs of the select committee underscores tuas determination to uncover the root causes of six january six even after senate republicans fearing political damage blocked the creation of a nine eleven style commission but they evidently weren't able to block the creation of this commission. I guess they lost power. Who knows. I don't pay much attention. Federal the move comes at the same time as many republicans have been seeking dow. Play the attack on the capital. Well because it wasn't an attack on the capital it was some angry rednecks. Rampaging through building some of them sold stole some stuff and that was wrong. Some of them damage some stuff and that was wrong but no politician got hurt if there was. This was an insurrection than a politician or two would have gotten hurt. Did any government officials get injured. Only a cop. I think but it wasn't the cop off duty. I could be wrong. But i thought it was like off duty cop that just like volunteered. Help off the top of my head. I have no idea wrong. There is no doubt in tops his mind the seriousness of the event address. Well i'm sure the politicians are taking it very seriously because they were the ones that absolutely that the protesters were unhappy with. Yeah but they're taking it in the wrong way they're just thinking oh republicans bad instead of water. I don't know if they're really thinking this could all be like you. Know psi ops. By well they're differently thinking we're scared and instead of addressing the issues. We need a crackdown on people and acquire more power so that this doesn't happen again. Yep they're not listening to any of the people's demands on the i really understand what their demands were because they're a bunch of you know prow boys that don't know what they're talking about the issues of january six or one of the most salient challenges. We have as a nation to make sure that this democracy does not fall prey to people who don't really identify with democracy. Well this a democracy. I was under the impression that it was not but they don't seem to know the difference. I mean most people don't know the difference anyway but it's a constitutional republic for anyone who's keeping score these central thrust of the investigation focus on the facts and circumstances surrounding the capital attack and the first hearing scheduled for twenty seven. Th of july will feature current and former us police in dc metro police officers but in pursuing a broad mandate to also examined. The root causes of the insurrection. Which they. I can't imagine they're actually going to deal with the root causes. We're just people are unhappy with the government and what the government is doing. And i think. I heard a lot about that. They believed that the you know that trump was supposed to have won the presidency or whatever there are still people who believed that trump is going to take office like next week or something like august fifteenth or someone is that what the date like august fifteen living at though. I remember when it was like march fifth. Yeah it's amazing that anyone continues to buy into this stuff because it's just like the doomsday pastors. Who are always like. Oh this the the world is going to end on this date not today. Oh no it turns out miscalculated thompson indicated that trump and white house minority leader. Kevin mccarthy are among the top witnesses for his investigation in large part. Because mccarthy was on the phone with the former president as the riot unfolded confusing to me. He because he was on the phone. Mccarthy called trump in a panic as rioters breached the capital and begged him to call off his supporters only for trump to chastise the republican in the house. Who is mccarthy. Because i've never heard of this. I was wondering that too. I missed that. He's the house minority leader. And like i said. I don't pay much attention to the federal government so i don't know who i don't know who the current head of any of these places are. I wanna know what he said to chastise the guy. Those probably funny shop evidently chastised him for not doing more to return the results of the twenty twenty presidential election. Well that's not a good look. Trump was chastising him about being scared of the people or whatever. No it sounds to me that the guy called trump. Oh my god. Rioters breached the capital. and trust. Well you should have done more to overturn results of the election except trump wouldn't have been that brazen he would've said something like well. You should have done your duty to look into the fairness of the election or whatever there will be. There will not be a reluctance on the part of the committee to pursue it. The committee would want to know if there is a record of what was said. Well of course there is the. nsa has it. just ask them the exchange between or use the. I've already forgotten the name of the paradox software. that's not. It is what we just talked about it like monday. I dunno peg software but thompson went further and said that he expects anyone whether a sitting member of congress or former white have white house official. Who may have spoken to trump on january six to become the subject of the select committee's investigations so if you spoke to donald trump on january sixth. You're a subject of the select committee's investigation so it doesn't sound to me like they're interested in pursuing the calls of this they're interested in using it as a way to finally get donald trump or something which is shocking to me. Because that's part of the game. They've always played we. That's why we knew that. Hillary was never going to actually go to jail because they don't want to upset for everyone else. You start arresting one president for things they did while in office and you're gonna find out ultimately have to arrest all of them and that's going to be true of every single elected official. You've got all of them doing things that are shady and criminal so they've always just of let it slide. They didn't need to think that squeaky clean. Barack obama did something that was criminal. What do you think he did. I don't know what he did. But i'm certain he did something that was criminal because he was supposed to be like the perfect president like the the good family guy. The one that took his wife and well. That was the picture they painted. If he's anything. Like the average american he committed he's committing five felonies. A day right now so yes. They could get him for some of that. He was president. So maybe is above average against that backdrop. Tufts has said that he expects demand testimony from senior trump administration officials. So yeah they're they're going after the trump administration. We're pursuing getting in court. He expects the select committee in your house. Investigators to meet with the attorney general and expressed optimism for conducting investigation in close coordination with the justice department. But i i don't think the investigation is you've starting from a good place and i don't think it's going to go anywhere. That is any better. Because starting from this was an insurrection. This is the most damaging thing that the most threatening thing to to the united states since the civil war. So if you start with that premise. You're not going to be led to the truth because the premise that you're starting with is false. We don't want to get in the way of indictments. But i think there could be some sharing of information way. What about nine eleven. What about They're saying this is the most threatening things to the united states since the civil war how nine eleven would also be the threats to united states democracy. But i mean they don't care. This was the greatest threat to american politicians since the civil war part is at least. It's the politicians that they care about. They don't care about democracy or a threat to the republic or a threat to the people but suddenly there's a real impossible threat against politicians. There wasn't but they didn't know that they they don't what there should ever be one. So they're going to use this january two six quote inter insurrection. As a way of warning that off what do you think about all of this. Should this commission proceed. It sounds to me like a starting from a wrong assumption. Six zero three two eight three six one six zero more coming up. It's free talk live after a devastating war. The alien visitors were driven back. And they're willing. human collaborators. Were left behind to face the music. When imaging anderson's ex lover's springs her from prison nathan foster and his fourteen year old nephew. Ben are tasked with bringing the pair to justice an easy enough job until they discover something is inside imaging and the fate of the planet hangs in the balance the family business by my koubri from bean box dot com talk law. It's free talk. Live six zero three two eight three six one six zero. If you wanna join the discussion a six zero three two eight three six one six zero with you tonight. It's aria angie and bonnie and we were talking about the january six insurrection. But that's not the only thing that's happened in the last year we're talking about. There was the the michigan kidnapping case. Where these this group of people were they. The media's characterizing it as kidnapping her which i think is interesting seraing. These people wanted to arrest her when they wanted to execute a citizens arrest against her and the media realizes that oh arresting people kidnapping them but not when the police do it. Apparently so the michigan up in cases a major test for the administration's commitment to fighting domestic terrorism. It's domestic terrorism when citizens arrest politicians and crucible for the fierce ideological divisions pulling the country. Apart in the inky darkness oaths going to be good the inky darkness of a late summer night last september. Three cars filled with armed. Men began circling birch lake in northern michigan looking for ways to approach governor witnesses three bedroom vacation cottage subdue her using a stun gun if necessary and drag her away and these were citizens. Yes i like where this is going. This is the first you've heard about it. I've never heard of that. Yeah so these people were planning to arrest the governor of michigan for her cove. Nineteen restrictions may be active. I only overheard that. It was like a kidnap thing. So i'm i didn't hear about either. Well that's an arrest right. It's just how which words you choose to describe it. I would say that it was an arrest them not a justified arrest. I'm not saying it was but there's no functional difference between kidnapping and arrest one vehicle. Stop to check out a boat launch. Well second searched in vain for the right house in the thick woods bringing the lake. The third car ran counter surveillance using night vision goggles to look out for cups and hand-held radios to communicate with the others earlier. They scoped out a bridge over the elk river just a few miles away scrambling down under the span to figure out where plastic explosives would need to be placed to blow it sky high. Wow what were they blowing up a bridge. Oh wow that would slow. Police response giving them in time to escape with the governor. I never heard of the details of their plan but it was apparently pretty pretty thawed out. The governor had infuriated by imposing kovic lockdowns among other outrages. Either and they wanted to either take her to lake michigan where they could abandoned her on a boat or whisker to wisconsin where she could be tried as a tyrant. I don't know anything about trying to abandon her own a boat. I had always heard. They wanted her to be tried as a tyrant. They plan to take her to wisconsin for that. Yeah i was going to say does wins concentra. Politicians never heard that before. Illinois's dot illinois does and i would. I would recommend that. I mean just about every illinois governor ends up in jail. I don't know how many actually it up in jail but that's crazy. Why would you even run for governor. Because of power what they ended up getting charged with corruption and stuff like that a lot of money. I have no idea. I just know that it's a thing where illinois governors end up. Yeah with some regularity. And why can't everyone you know. Trust charges on their governor. Why does it just have to be certain states. Is it just like a state thing. I don't know may just be an illinois thing everybody down with. What's going on in iraq war veteran in the group demanded to know when they ended their recon mission well past midnight at a campsite where they were all staying. If you're not down with the thought of kidnapping someone else replied. Don't sit here interesting. But who knows that. That's what they really said. The men planned for all kinds of obstacles but there was one they didn't anticipate the fbi had been listening in all along for six months. The iraq war vet had been wearing a wire gathering hundreds of hours of recording. He wasn't the only one a biker who traveled from wisconsin to join. The group was another informant. The manhood advise them on where to put the explosives and offered to get them as much as task would require was da an undercover fbi agent. Look if someone says. We put the explosives if less plan to kidnap the governor. And this is where we're going to put the explosives on this bridge and i can get you all the explosive. You want there's your federal agents so was a man in one of the other cars who said little and went by the name. Marc so it seems that two of these three people. Did i understand that correctly. No three dot three people. So at least two f. b. i. informants slash agents were there just over three weeks later. Federal estate agents swooped in and arrested more than a dozen men accused of participating in what i federal prosecutor called a deeply disturbing criminal conspiracy hatched over months in secret meetings unencrypted chats and in paramilitary style training exercises. None encrypted chats. Yeah they love going after those seven of them and that's part of the issue with encrypted chats. It's not protecting you. If there's an fbi agent or multiple in the chat seven of the men who had driven birch lake that night would end up in jail. The case made international headlines with the justice department touting it as an example of law enforcement agencies quote working together to make sure violent. Extremists never succeed with their plans. Prosecutors allege that the kidnapping the governor was just the first step and what some on the right called the big booed a long awaited civil war. That would overthrow the government and returned the united states to some supposed revolutionary war era ideal. Which would then immediately become a just like the united states. Did the definitive differently. They say they were set up the audacious plot to kidnap a sitting governor seen by many as a prospect a precursor to the january six assault. They always call now now. It's an assault on the us capitol. By hundreds of trump's supporting protesters has become one of the most important domestic terrorism investigations in a generation. The prosecutor has already emerged as a critical test for how the abundant administration approaches the growing threat of homegrown anti-government groups. Well there's nothing wrong with the homegrown look if your government is producing home antigovernment groups senior government is doing something wrong more than that though. The case of panama is is the ideological divisions that have driven the country over the last several years to some the fbi's filtration of the innermost circle of armed anti-government groups is a model for how to successfully forestalled. Dangerous acts of domestic terrorism but for others is an example of precisely the kind of outrageous government overreach that radicalized people in the first place and increasingly flash point for deep state conspiracy theories. The government has documented at least twelve confidential informants who assisted the sprawling investigation. I can't imagine they had that many people that twelve of this group of people must have they arrested twelve people and they also have twelve confidential informants who were assisting with the investigation. They were twenty four people. Presumably at least twenty four fifty percent of the people were informants. What we don't know exactly how many people there were. But fifty percent of the people if they were twenty four and there were twelve arrested in twelve. Were what we don't know how many people were a part of it but weren't arrested okay or part of paramilitary training or whatever. We just don't know. How do you not know that you know one of fifty percent of the people that you're hanging out with our federal agents. Do you not how you not clued in on that. Because they're not actually principle. I think these people got what they want or what they deserve because they plan to do something violent. You you deserve kidnapping violent. I would agree these trove of evidence. They helped gather provides an unprecedented view into american extremism laying out in stunning detail. The ways that anti-government group's network with each other and in some cases discuss violent actions an examination of the case also reveals some of those informants acting under the direction of the fbi played a far larger role that has previously been reported working secret. They did more than just passively observe and report on the actions of the suspects instead they had a hand in nearly every aspect of the alleged plot starting with this inception the extent of their involvement raises questions as to whether there would have been a conspiracy without them. A longtime government and format from wisconsin for example helps organize a series of meetings around the country. Where many of the alleged plotters. I met one another and the earliest notions of a plan to recruit the wisconsin a format even paid for some hotel rooms and food as an incentive to get people to calm and this was an fbi agent basically paying people. There's really making actually charge these people with this now. I know they're going to try. But what are your thoughts. It sounds to me like the fbi played way to help you get ahead here. Six zero three two eight three six one six zero more coming up here about. This is free talk live. It's free talk. Live and one of the things. That's been fascinating me so much over. The last few months of it really came to a head when we were talking about the moores. Who was this group of people who recently made headlines because they were in massachusetts and open carrying and the way that the article we talked about characterized the people and and what they were doing was just amazingly slanted like. They described the an armed standoff in the woods with state. Police say they had to bring in a hostage. Negotiator to help ease the situation. Help come to an end and they specifically use the word hostage negotiator. But there was there were no hostages so they just brought in a wondering about that. Because i remember reading about it but i never read that. There is any hostage. There was any hostage negotiating. They were negotiating to end the tense situation. Okay but they. They said hostage negotiator in a way of making people subway. I think that there were host naked and just said there was a negotiator brought on scene. Yeah that's one of his other jobs are shining. It's crazy and now that i've become aware of that. I'm seeing get everywhere like with the arresting kidnapping thing here. The the media very clearly knows that arresting someone is kidnapping right and there because they these people these people who were planning to quote kidnap or arrest michigan governor. The media is characterizing it as a kidnapping when it so funny. There's two examples of things that the government did to me and you on march sixteenth in their characterizing. It as a bad thing. If it's done to the government. I was oh they went into somebody's house without asking. They did us and they also kidnapped you and my boyfriend did the iraq war vet. Who was an informant for the fbi for those who are here. A moment ago became so deeply enmeshed in a michigan militant group that he rose to become its second in command. The fbi informant was the second in command and he encouraged members to collaborate with other potential suspects and paid for their transportation to meetings. He prodded the alleged masterminded the kidnapping plot to advance his plan. Then baited the trap that lead to the arrest. This account is based on an analysis of court findings transcripts exhibits audio recordings and other documents as well as interviews with more than two dozen people with direct knowledge of the case including several. Who were present at the meetings and training sessions. Where prosecutors say that. The plot was hatched all but one of the original of the fourteen original defendants have pleaded not guilty and they vigorously denied that they were involved in a conspiracy to kidnap anyone. Do they have a bunch of you know posts here their social media posts and they're supposed planning who knows. The prosecution gathered thousands of social media. Some four hundred thousand text messages cod and more than thirteen hundred hours of recordings. I can't imagine the size of the discovery in this case including audio or video from the all three vehicles. So all three of the vehicles had an informant or fbi agent and it that it alleges traveled to birch lake on the night of september the twelfth it maintains that this evidence shows many of those who were charged not only expressed anti government sentiments which isn't a crime. And it's and it's not there using anti-government ciment in the same way that the government uses hate-crime-legislation sure antigovernment sentiments aren't a hate crime but a crime. But if you do something criminal the fact that you have antigovernment sentiments is going to be used against you to make your centers harsher just like with hate crimes if you kill someone and they happen to be a protected minority. You're going to. It's not illegal to hate that person but you're going to be charged sentenced worse based on that but they also took concrete steps toward the goal of kidnapping or killing law enforcement officers and elected officials. I don't know that they took concrete steps toward killing law enforcement officials not having looked at these four hundred thousand text message but it sounds like they wanted to prevent law enforcement officials from getting there which is not killing them but the defendants as well as others called in the sweeping investigation which swept from baltimore baltimore to kansas city. Claimed the toll never rose beyond the level of fantasy and they never intended to harm anyone that arguments not going to now because they were in cars driving around this place. Yeah yeah so that's not. Okay it definitely went beyond the level offense dudes although they have not denied participating in training events attending meetings that communicating with other defendants. They claim that. No actual conspiracy to kidnap the governor ever existed. Instead they say they were targeted because of their political views. Some some described the case as a premeditated campaign by the government to undermine the patriot movement and ideology based on filthy to the second amendment and the conviction that the government has violated the constitution and is therefore illegitimate now. I don't know anything about the patriot movement but they sound correct. The government has absolutely violated the constitution repeatedly and is a legitimate. But there's no reason to kidnap anyone or arrest anyone. They argue that the recordings and text messages that the government call us proof of a criminal conspiracy in constitutionally protected speech expresses frustration at what they see as the government's betrayal of its citizens attorneys for all but one of the defendants declined invitations to come on the record for this story. Today at one defended has formally accused the government of entrapment arguing. That the epa assembled the key plotters encouraged the group's antigovernment feelings and even gave its members military style training. Well i think that's accurate. I think that is exactly what happened. It is accurate but also they agreed to do it. So i think that it. I mean it is kind of on them. They if you agree to do it you should be. you know. You're thing if you're if you're against what the government is doing don't involve yourself in doing the same thing to other human beings. Absolutely i mean i. It's unclear whether or not they're. I mean they're probably not volatile anarchist. So they probably don't have an issue with the government you know criminalizing marijuana or heroin or something like that so maybe they are sort of okay with the government kidnapping people they just wanted to be more restrained and how it does it. I don't know what their exact beliefs are but they don't sell volunteer arrests today. Windy certainly does sound like entrapment. Though i mean the the fbi set this up and they paid for hotels and meals pizza learning event. Now you can come say this hotel with a swimming pool and i get a dinner. Additional defensive said they planned to make similar claims when the case is divided between federal and state court. Go to travel starting as soon as tober. I don't know how they could possibly be going to trial that early with that that that many defendants that large africa spiracy and that much discovery last week the lawyer for one defendant filed a motion that include that included texts from an fbi agent to a key informant the iraqi war veteran director him to draw specific people into the conspiracy which is potential evidence treatment that he said the government quote inadvertently disclosed. So the the fbi agent told one of the informers to draw specific people by name into conspiracy scary. Here's requesting tech's sent and received by that informant and other attorneys or now considering motions. That accused of intentionally withholding evidence of entrapment. Which is what that means is. Oh the government didn't mean to disclose that that was this close inadvertently. You're withholding evidence entrapment. Because that's evidence of entrapment. I mean you this. Fbi agent specifically singled out individuals. Said get them involved right i to take them down now so reach out to them by their pizza. Get them hotel. Rose pay for their travel. Whatever you gotta do. Do you think this is entrapment. Do you think has gone too far. Six zero three two eight three six one. Six zero brute force intransigent defiance. Adamantine will these are the hallmarks of the tank. These gigantic machines have the firepower of an army but they also have their own sense of honor and duty when the world breakers arrive battle. we'll be joined. planets will shake and war and peace will never be the same again. World breakers is stories from david weber. Larry korea and more available august heard from being books dot com. It's free talk live. We've had video archives on library for years. Library is an uncensored decentralized blockchain based media sharing protocol and we're big fans up here on free talk live i. I've been using library of four four or five years now. I absolutely love. It knows that old. I don't remember exactly how long it was. Before i moved to new hampshire at the very least was when i discovered in started enjoying it in twenty twenty library lost odyssey. Od y. s. e. a. video-sharing website to compete with you too and it's really taking off now with over one million channels. Many of whom are disaffected youtube creators during youtube. Crackdown for not towing the government. Line on covet. The free talk live. Youtube channel started receiving strikes and could be taking completely down at any moment. They fully odyssey started offering live streaming. So now we're there. 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The second one i think is no the first one is seven days. The second one is like three months or two months. I don't remember it's quite a long time because we have been streaming on youtube. Since march the thirtieth or somewhere around there may june and because and that was because the band. The second strike didn't expire for such a very long time and if you receive a third strike on youtube they permanently delete your channel including all of your videos so we were like yeah. It's it's it's not worth the risk of losing all of these video archives to continue streaming at the moment. Let's wait until one of these strikes lift but yeah it's very strange process and every single appeal. We upheld all of them that we received no reason given just know. We decided that you're giving Medically medical misinformation. Did you know that we have a banner on facebook now. What we every time. I don't know if it's every time but last night within thirty seconds of free talk live going live. Facebook had the click here for vaccine information. Thing down at the bottom so yeah. I'm not on facebook. Well i have messenger but deactivated my account. So no i don't see it. Most singer is the primary reason that i still have facebook. That in occasionally posting something scroll through it or read the comments or anything like that wasted so much time on that thing. Yeah it's yeah it's what people do they sit there scrolling through it. I decided that i posted a thought. And then i go. People get upset with me occasional. you never react to comment so you never reply back like no. That's not what i'm using facebook for you. I'm using it to communicate with you if you want to communicate with me. Shoot me a message. But i don't wanna have a or give a call to freetalklive. I don't want to have this conversation on social media about government that's not activism in my pain but there are so many libertarians out. There who think that arguing with people on facebook is activism or people love to argue on there or just posting. Their opinions on facebook is activism. It's like they're making a difference. Yeah uh-huh oh. I'm certain i've got my fbi agent. Because of the things. I post on facebook dude. If the entirety of your activism is posting on facebook. you do not have an fbi fouled and if they ever looked at you they immediately wrote you off as harmless and through that foul in the shredder. So we're talking about the governor witter arrest attempts by these individuals in michigan and everything that we're hearing sounds a lot like entrapment. One of the main inform was an iraq war veteran and the fbi director him to get specific people wrapped up in the conspiracy so the fbi asia presumably had because he had a grudge against these people or whatever. We don't know his reasons but he was a. Hey iraq war veteran who's informing me. I want you to this person. That person at this person and i want you to get them involved that certainly entrapment if they can identify who those individuals were. The case against them has to get thrown out. I would imagine. I would hope so. Meanwhile gregory town send one of the lead. Prosecutors had the cases against eight of the defendants in michigan state. Court was reassigned in may pinning in journey attorney general audit into whether he had withheld evidence about deals cut with informs during gay murder and arson trial in oakland county on sunday and they matter apparently unrelated to the alleged arrest conspiracy. They keep calling it kidnapping but just to drive that point home. I'm gonna keep calling it arrests conspiracy one of the lead. Fbi agents in the case. Richard trask was charged in state court in kalamazoo with assault with intent to do great bodily harm. Well steroids cause people to make poor poor decisions. A spokesperson for the michigan attorney. General's office said the defendants claims are not indisputable. Facts at the office will counter and correct these issues in court. The department of justice declined request for an interview or to provide comet for this article setting us policy not to discuss pending criminal cases and fbi. Spokesperson said the bureau is aware of the charges against trask but declined further comment for this article. Now i may have missed it. Oh trask was one of the lead. Fbi agents in the case presumably. He could have been the one who said. Hey find these particular individuals and get them involved. Claiming government entrapment claiming government. Entrapment is a common strategy and domestic terrorism cases in part because because it is among the only available if prosecutors have evidence from extensive surveillance such defense is usually fell most domestic terrorism defendants are convicted or they accept a plea deal but not always less than a decade ago. For example an apocalyptic christian group in michigan was prosecuted for allegedly plotting to murder police officers. Among other things hold an apocalyptic christian group in michigan was prosecuted for allegedly plotting to murder police. Officers really surprising apocalyptic christian groups usually seems to be kind of pro government. How could they possibly not have included a link to the news article about this. I want to know. More about the apocalyptic christian group that wanted to kill cops. Yeah i've never heard that's insane among other things the defendants claim that the entire conspiracy was instigated by deeply embedded. Fbi informant and the defendants were ultimately acquitted by the judge. That makes more sense because like most christians. Especially through the apocalyptic type tend to be pro cop. Unless they're the waco apocalyptic style don't know anything about their beliefs. What waco wasn't actually apocalyptic. But who am. I thinking of the people who drank the poison to get on the the heaven's gate cult they were apocalyptic they probably weren't -fensive cops. This founding one hundred thirteen years ago. Jesus christ the fbi is old. The fbi has relied upon and often paid confidential informants to aid and criminal investigations. Did you say one hundred thirteen years. Old one hundred and thirteen years old starting in the late nineteen fifties it has employed them specifically to infiltrate dissident groups and spy on target individuals including black panthers and martin luther king jr. notoriously win going after martin luther king junior the tactic has a decidedly mixed record that militia group was from two thousand and ten year. Right march twenty nine. Th two thousand ten. What you just said less than a decade ago. So i don't know why. I thought it was the year two thousand for some reason that they said. Is there any more about them Yeah there's quite a bit about it. Sounds super fascinating. If you want to this yeah absolutely. The tactic has a decidedly mixed record as we said but if formats have also worse innocent piece people falsified evanescent even committed murder while working for the fbi shocking people working for the fbi accidentally killed someone or purposely killed someone. The bureau's reliance on informants much criticized in the seventy s received renewed scrutiny in the wake of nine eleven where they were used to probe muslim groups for alleged involvement in islamic terrorism. So that's oh god this just keeps going. I'm gonna dig to it during the to see if there's more worth discussing but i think they made a pretty clear case at the. Fbi played a very heavy hand here and of course we suspected that would be the case because the fbi has been doing this sort of thing for a long time. What are your thoughts. Six zero three two eight three six one six zero. It's free talk live. You're welcome to join in six zero three two eight three six one six zero with you in the studio tonight. It's aria angie and bonnie and this article that we've been talking about it discusses a fbi agent named trask and how he has pending charges for intent to commit serious grief. I don't remember the terminology. You serious bodily harm or something like that as it turns out what they're referring to is on sunday night. He and his wife had an argument over the attendance of a swingers party. It doesn't go into more detail than that. I don't know if she wanted to go and he didn't or what. The situation was apparently does go into detail and he got angry and as cops ten do he started beating her ended up bashing her head into the nightstand and choking her and he was released. This this person who did that. Who smashed his wife's head into a nightstand and then choked her. He's not a violent person or anything doesn't need to be held for. You know three or four months like ian. Yes he was released on. Pr which is personal recognizance. Which is oh yeah. He'll he'll be good while he's out. There's no need to. There's no need to detain them or anything like that. This isn't a violent person. We're dealing with this person. Whose literal career is violence insane. And it's all because you know. He's an fbi agent so they're not going to hold him even though he's very clearly a threat to people in society. So back into this article according to greg rogers. Who's a retired. Fbi agent who spent two decades working undercover on cases involving domestic terrorism n has torso covered with gang tattoos to show it. The standard playbook for domestic terrorism investigations is to start with an informant who can infiltrate a group and gain trust and then bring in undercover agents. That's an even bigger necessity in this era of social media when informants are often vetted based on their online identities which are hard to fake. I used to attend militia conferences and gun shows. But i never got into a group without being introduced by an informant. I roger said. Many informants agreed to help the government because they have gotten themselves sideways with the law and are hoping to get their charges. Dismissed have their citizens reduced or went over other favors from prosecutors. Others are in it for the money and holy crap. Is there evidently a lot of money in it. One longtime federal informant has allegedly hauled in four point nine million dollars in government payments over the last two decades. That has a lot of silver for judas to be wanting i have to say. It's far less common for the epa to recruit an informant as it did with dan simply by appealing to his better nature. On march the seventeenth. Dan officially went on the fbi's books under the codename. Thor dan could deceive. The wolverine watchmen or other suspects but he had to be truthful with the fbi. He could participate in the group's activities but he had to stop short of anything illegal. Well that's a new change for the fbi was. He wanted the people that were riding around. The cars presumably. Yes so wouldn't that be legal. You're going to commit you mean you riding around with a thing going to commit a crime. What they were they were still in the planning stages at that point. That wasn't the execution night. No the execution night was still weeks away when the fbi. I understand as a matter of law visit people with no prior intention. To commit crimes is known as entrapment and is to be strenuously avoided by law enforcement. Federal agents and informers are instead opposed to passively develop evidence. I guess people who are already quote predisposed to illegal things serving only as the eyes ears of the prosecution in practical terms however confidential informants enjoy tremendously way to get the goods. Informatin in cases over recent decades have badgered suspects into committing crimes. Paid them large sums of money to do so and even threatened to hurt them if they backed out. According to jesse norris a professor of criminal justice bench of bullies they are. They didn't get in any trouble for doing that. No of course not no gotta no trouble. In fact. They were probably paid better. They threatened to hurt people if they backed out. They paid them. Large sums of money that that's the fbi informant out there. That's what they're doing. And not one of those instances however was. The prosecution forced to drop the case so. Dan got to work within weeks. He was deeply ensconced within the watchman training with them on weekdays weekends and teaching them the technical skills that he picked up in the army at first. The fbi focused on the three founding members. Muzio also known as grandpa. Joe morrison and paul balare and it gives a little bit of personal information about them in due time however the fbi expanded is target list to include not only the entire group but potential suspects as far as way far away as virginia on the final day of april twenty twenty. The watchman went to the state capital in lansing to join a big protest against witnesses. covered nineteenth. Stay at home order. Dan wore a wire for the first time. Traveling to the event with music. Oh morrison and balare. The men were decked out in ballistic body armor brandishing pistols and ar fifteen assault rifles which is standard which was centered for the hundreds of protesters a messing lansing that morning. They were there more. Sending musica said to recruit new members but around noon as they moved among the crowd. Dan started hearing. Dan started hearing whispers about storming the capital less than two weeks earlier. The watchmen had built a mockup of a house using pvc tubing and then helped show them how to push inside before clearing each room techniques learned in the army. The watchman referred to it as a quote killed house. I don't know what the significance of that is now. Outside the capitol it appeared. They might be trained preparing to put the training to use this time with hundreds of state. Police officers standing between them and the imposing renaissance revival building was getting apt. Dan would later recall in court. He describe music saying he wanted to circle the building which he would wait for where he would wait for witter and said some nasty stuff. So dan panic. He slipped away from the group for a moment and spoke into the recording device. He was carrying which he knew was being monitored live by his f. b. i. Handlers the watchman he said we're preparing to breach the capital. The ages could've speak back to him but he hoped they could at least warn the police about what was coming then. Something surprising happened. The michigan state police stood down and let the protests protesters including those in full tactical gear. Enter the building unopposed. There could even bring their guns as long as they submit it to a temperature. Check for kobe. Gosh that is not the end of that sentence. i expected. Gosh they could even bring their guns. Just let me take your temperature okay. You're get pass. Wow what a world we live in. The watchman rushed to the building's second floor museum urged the increasingly frenzied crowd to push forward. When he spotted state troopers he got in their faces screaming taking pictures of their badges and daring them to touch him. It sounds like they encountered some well. Trained state troopers just standing by like like the old royal guards that you know we imagine. Standing there not reacting everywhere in the crowd was they sturdily built builder. Bearded man with an imposing. Ar fifteen style assault rifle slung over his vast and the rightly covered hawaiian colored hawaiian shirt. That has become a hallmark among bigalow boys. At the time thirty-seven-year-old adam fox had close ties to any militant group b. but he'd been searching for one where he would fit in box was living with his dogs in the basement of friends vacuum repair shop. The man that's these are the people that they target the ones that you actually use some help. Yeah i mean this is clearly dude as down on his luck. Lacking long-term employment he smoked weed spent hours on facebook looking to make connections with other members of the patriot community. I get it. So they say they targeted this dude. Who was down on his luck and lonely and i his time instead of doing something productive granted but you know he was wanna perfect all the time and he was having a particularly bad period. His main outlet was weightlifting. Keller who was with him. On april thirtieth keller. They probably identified as some point of article. But i skipped over it because a lot of it really isn't very interesting and neither has ever keller had to say the watchman meanwhile had worked their way toward an office. They thought was widmer's and we're banging hard on the door but journalists began snapping pictures and the three lined up in the hallway to post menacingly for the cameras but there was no actual violence and the crowds eventually left without further incident. The shocking spectacle of the militants occupying the capital grabbed. The media's attention it was as the associated press reported an unsettling symbol of rising tensions in a nation grappling with crisis. It sound like everything went. Fine yeah and they probably moved out of the way and let them in so nothing broken knowing got her. They're like these people in is it. Sounds like some really good decisions were made. I think this guy was like. Hey you know from being an fbi format definitely not the best decision but this guy was one. He's a hey. They're planning to storm the building and whoever was in charge said okay. Well we don't want this to turn into a bloodbath. Yeah so stand down. Just let them in and just let them in as long as they freaking get their because we don't want kind of it is january six at the capital that would describing no this was at the lansing state house. How come the covered this one. As far as i understand it this was not. The guy wasn't trump's fault. You didn't hear about the michigan state. Police were the ones who stood down. I wanna make sure. I didn't miss that because i just assumed it was in michigan. It was. What are your thoughts on this who who is in the right here. I tend to think that the state troopers believe it or not handled. It could have but maybe you'd think differently six zero three two eight three six one six zero. There's more coming up. It's free talk live. Do you feel like your country. No longer holds your values. Have you dreamt of a place where liberty minded people can come together and leave government overreach behind. There are many people just like you. That are discovering free. Private cities dot com. They started free private cities dot com and connect via the social media links. Shown they're all skills will be needed when the first free private cities open it sooner than you think. Stop arguing and build free private cities dot com free private cities dot com talk law. It's free talk. Live six zero three two eight three six one. Six zero few went away en six zero three two eight three sixty one sixty and went to tie its body and jeep and we're talking about the the fbi involvement with the plot to kidnap governor whitmer. And it goes into extent. I would even say exhaustive detail about some of some of the members here and some of you know what they were alleged to have done some of the planning some of the organization and all of that. But it's it also goes into a number of other groups that have been infiltrated by the fbi and evidently this is what the fbi does so if you have any sort of group and you're not one hundred percent pro government go ahead and assume that at least one of the members of your group is an active fbi informed one or more because there are quite a few in this group yes Twelve people are currently being charged in the quote plot to arrest governor whitmer and there were twelve. Fbi agents and informants involved in the charges so for whatever that's worth there's probably a lot of them out there moving on in the article though. Stephen robe rogerson a burly concrete and asphalt contractor from central. Wisconsin had helped organize a national meeting and he was enthusiastically pushing people. He knew to attend their so say national meeting of various militias is basically what it was. I skipped over a large section of the article. Because like i said it's exhausted. Word count this thing has got to be twenty thirty thousand words so he wanted thomas leaguer. a gun. Lobbyist from wisconsin later was invited by roberson so many times that he'd lost count despite the pressure leaguer. Busy with other things declined to go. Jeremy data a three percenter. What are the three percenters before. But i don't recall. I can't remember. I've heard of it before too. He lived only twenty miles from where the meeting was to be held and he was a sure he would go either but roberson caught him so often that he finally relented. On the morning of june the sixth accompanied by his wife and daughter he drove to the jury in and suites in dublin. A suburb of columbus rose robinson known as roby was a heavily tattooed biker with a shaggy tougher beard springing from his chin. Y you know really focusing on those beards. The three percenters are antigovernment extremists. Who are part of alicia of militia movements okay. Well everyone's an extremist nowadays according to the narrative being put forward so their anti-government what do they call themselves to three percenters. I don't know okay. There was a lot they didn't know about this guy other than evidently the fact that he had a beard but they didn't know they had a lengthy criminal record by the time he was twenty robie had been busted for car theft and soon added battery. Possession of stolen property forgery. Disorderly conduct theft. We're not done yet. Writing worthless checks sex with a minor. We're still not done yet. Bell jumping insurance fraud. Sounds like they should get this guy badge this dude. By the time he was twenty no he added shortly after turning twenty. It doesn't say how old he was at the time of these incidents. So and the other members had no inkling that in march nineteen ninety-five in an arsenal murder trial of members of notorious bank biker. Gang called pecos road riders. Robie had testified for the prosecution. According to court records robie helped the government put people away at least three times in the eighties and again in two thousand and five when he provided information about a former who was seeking to pay someone to kill a romantic rival or leave him quote crippled for life. And my goodness under direction from the from the police robots told robinson. I don't know which one is supposed to be. Correct told the farmer he'd put him in touch with someone who could do the job that turned out to be an undercover police. Officer who over lunch at a restaurant recorded the former offering a. Hey baylor in exchange for the act of valor. now money. great. The former eventually pled guilty to solicit solicitation of battery outside of his frequent legal adventures roby formed and led a group called the wisconsin patriot-3 percenters and it was under the auspices of that organization that he started organizing the double meetings. So the organizer of this dublin meeting became an informant for the fbi presumably to help with his criminal rap sheet which was quite extensive. The three percents. Our national organization named after dispute notion that it was just three percent of american colonists who rose up and took arms against british rule. I i don't know if that's factually true or not. I know that I think it was jefferson. Who said that. Roughly a third of us were patriots. Us were loyalists and a third of us. Were in different. I don't know if it's true or not but it sounds really good. I mean yeah. I can't imagine more than three percent of people actually being galvanized enough to take up arms. But who knows. I was not there. The group loosely organized and highly fractious was founded in two thousand eight by. Okay the overall national group by michael vendor bo. Who believed that. The government had drifted far from his constitutional ideals. It was working sliding into outright tyranny. Well maybe that's because the government has drifted har- from his institutional ideals and is sliding into outright tyranny. That's not to say that. A militia is the tool for the to fix the problem here but the problem does exist. What do you think the tool is. Because i think in the case of these people trying to kidnap the governor governor. They would've just been more effective if they had just ignored. The governor's orders then even if they actually affect i mean actually cylinder. Civil obedience is a good way like if everyone just stopped obeying. The police stopped obeying the government. Then yes the. The government would not have the police force or the military to actually respond to that and they probably would ultimately back down once they realized. Oh we don't actually have the manpower to enforce these laws that cause the average american to commit three or five felonies today. I don't remember how many there are but if if people were actually not obeying. I think that would be good. I think doing that as seceding from the federal government which has become too radical. Have something more localized that you can exercise a little bit. More control over is a good way to achieve it but really. I don't think there is a tool here on earth for the job. That is stronger than cryptocurrency. The government needs money to do this stuff and they to that end they create their own money and they created out of thin air can create as much. yes they can create whatever they print accounts. Yeah i got here you go. And that's how they pay for their oppression. That's how they pay for their wars and the money they use. It's only popular right now. It's only useful in the world right now because so so many companies are behold into the american military so many countries are beholden to the american military and terrified them. So they it. But you know that's a slippery slope and it's going to ultimately come to an end. Crypto currency is something they can't control. They can't inflate it. In order to pay for drug wars or wars abroad or dropping bombs on you know brown people in the middle east and cryptocurrency deprives them of the funding that they need in order to engage in this tyranny so i think that crypto currency is probably the strongest. We have on earth. But i don't i don't know of. There's nothing that can be done with violence. That's going to make the situation any better at the very least it's going to take piece to eliminate an evil violent organiser organization violences going to create more. Violence is not going to end. It is only going to is similar. To what i said Someone on facebook recently about you know being mean to biggest someone. Someone had posted here. I'm always going to be mean too big. I said why that just increases the number of mean people in the world that just increases the hostility. And i don't wanna live in a world where people are mean. You're not putting an end to the mean bigot. Or to being mean in general by being mean to the big at you're just making the world a little bit more main. That's pretty silly. i hate me. I'm going to be mean to them. Yeah it is silly. And that's the exact argument people made make for these violent revolution. I guess the government is oh. I hate violent people so we're going to engage in violent against them and that's not going to solve the problem. I used to really think like that like i. I don't know that. I would put it in these exact terms by used to always think like absolutely nobody can like hurt me or anything because i'm ten times meaner like me and my friend. We used to kind of say that like we're just which like they won't mess with us. They know not mess with us because anything like the nicest little person in the world. Well no one is more violent than government for sure. And if you want to match the government to-to-to in violence first of all. You're probably not gonna win. But even if you do you're just going to become the thing that you set out to destroy each day. Who said stare too long into the best in the stairs back. And that's what happens with all of these violent revolutions. They just become a new. A new gang of warlords ruling over people pieces the solution peace and love. But what are your thoughts. Maybe i'm wrong. Six zero three two eight three six one six zero Is free talk. Live six zero three two eight three six one six zero if you wanna join the discussion with you tonight. It's aria and and bonnie. And i find myself now reading every fire named carefully in my head before i said on the air after last night's little fiasco and i don't hear anything unusual with this one but you know i typically don't hear them even when i say them aloud so i wanna say thank you to mel as sclavo. Who is tonight's amplifier. Mal is a gold level amplifier. Which means that. Mel was giving ten dollars per month to the program and i'm stands for advertise market and promote its money that is strictly to advertise market and promote free. Talk live to get us all more radio stations to help help us reach a larger audience with the ideas of liberty so if you value that you make sitter joining the program. You don't have to give ten dollars per month. Oh all we ask is five dollars per month that gets you in and it does come with a number of of little perks. But they should join. Is that you value free. Talk live and you want us to reach a larger audience. Clever thank you so much contributions. Let's go to the phones we've got. Twa calling from boston. Twu on free talk live. Hi how you doing. And what's on your mind tonight. Yeah i wanna say that the whole thing with the governor whitman thing being are gonna her. That was a fbi plot. They just roped in some Dummies one of the co-defendants was. They never released their name. That was fbi agent just got promotion for having those guys on a plate and it was a time when whitmire was really unpopular with the whole lockdowns thing so they just you know that was the way. Oh i'm a victim of a crime. Just like jesse smollet. Widmaier does the same thing. It's been such a year. I forgot entirely about the jesse smile about that one. He was a football player or an act is an actor from empire why i thought he was a football player but he basically paid some people to attack him and shout racial expletives time so that he could claim to have been a victim of a hate. Crime was really lame. 'cause i loved that show on empire i was like Why did you have to do that. I totally forgot that even happened. But yes it's been indisputably clear from this article that we've been talking about Twa that the f. b. i. Played a very very large role in the creation and development of this plot to arrest governor whitman whitmer. of course they did Just like On a lot of these shooters they said like nicolas cruise for instance. They said that they'd been in contact with him I believe they're in contact with the sandy hook shooter. It's always You know they're in contact with someone troubled in In this case they just taught got into a chat room at some guys who are stupid and didn't know they're talking to an fbi agent and created. You know plans where they were going to. I i mean i i. I bet those guys probably did say some things that you could get yourself in trouble for saying but If the fbi agents there does this thing become what it is that they never would have been able to do it but the fbi get to swoop in the rest of these guys sees all the hard drives and say you know look. We just did this. Meanwhile they they can't take time to like a hundred biden's laptop or you know is compromised. They have been for a long time and well. There's certainly no good use for tax payer money but if the fbi was going to actually go out and look for you know people who were disturbed people who were mentally ill people who were disaffected by the system and we're deeply unhappy with it. If they were to then help those people in a positive way i would have less than an objection to it but finding this guy who down on his luck whose scrolling through facebook all day. He's upset about how the lockdowns have occurred and now he can't find on long-term employment and he's suburbs across an fbi agent and then next thing you know he's plotting with the fbi traveling and he has a purpose and he has a mission. Oh he's excited about life now it's like. twa said. That guy probably wouldn't have done anything like these plans if it wasn't planted in his head because i mean he was just sitting agent was going to provide the bomb material. How would they even come up with that plan instead. let's get the. Do you know a a therapist. Let's get him a a personal trainer to get him a girlfriend well. It doesn't sound like he was ready for a girlfriend. She might get help him. That's not a good way to start a relationship. Twu thank you so much for the call tonight but yeah you're absolutely right. A lot of these things would never have happened without fbi involvement what they probably did it. Sounds like as they found this group of of boo boo people bigalow boys as they're known to be called and they increasingly militarized them and work them up into a frenzy and got them to come up with this plot to kidnap governor. Whitmer and i. I don't know if any of them would have actually carried through with it or not. It sounds like they did get pretty far into the planning stages if they're riding around armed in cars and night yeah they they were looking for this woman's house so you know it. Was it the fantasy playing out that they thought that you know. It was going to be their defense. So the article goes on that its members. That's members of the three percenters. A primary concern for them is protecting gun rights but the group also espouses the idea that citizens have the right to challenge their leaders. South says the idea. Yes so does the constitution the constitution. Also espouses the idea that citizens have the right to challenge their leaders. Ask does the declaration of independence just as business. Because they say it doesn't mean we actually have the right. We're not supposed to know and we know that we don't have the right. Because there's a resident of new hampshire here who is who was charged with unlawful picketing for being in the capitol building on january. The sixth he was from keen to right. I've heard that there was somebody from qian. There do not know. I don't know there was some kind of Officers something from troy right. Yes a police chief i. I think it was chief. So maybe that was the person it's members at times in full battle armor make regular appearances antigovernment protests and other movements of civil strife such as the two thousand seventeen unite. The right rally in charlottesville last month he just the justice department charged for three percenters with conspiracy. As part of the january six insurrection. They just love that. Where don't they insurrection. A primary goal of the dublin meeting and other attendees now the organizer of the dublin meaningless was someone within extensive criminal past and clearly not a very good person to be around and also an fbi informant other attendee data and other attendees told buzzfeed. So yeah was to discuss opening a charter school dedicated to teaching three percenter ideals coming so soon after the killing george floyd. The nation's racial divide was also a big topic of conversation as where the recent protests and violence in cities across the country participants had traveled from as far as kansas city and maryland to attend this event organized by this. Fbi informant with an extensive criminal record. Now this person from maryland. They were coming to wisconsin. I don't recall exam michigan. They're coming to michigan dublin and it keeps referring to step. It doesn't specify what surely they reached out to them and said. Hey we're doing this. Come here because it set was that one of the ones that were targeted which one the one that was from I don't know. I mean it doesn't sound like anyone was actually targeted at the maryland event. Adam fox weightlifter. Who had been aside the capitol in lansing at the same time as the watchman came down from michigan along with. Keller the feds everywhere kawasaki recalls thinking himself another three or any porn born again christian but he was a surprise like many of the attendees he had long believed that the three percents political beliefs made them targets up the fbi yes because the fbi very existence is sort of counter to what the three percents believe more coming up about this. It's free talk live. When a lunar observatory detects the radio broadcast originating from proximus and tori the nations of earth discover their first contact with an alien race may also be their last with approximations facing extinction level. Disaster earth must choose between sending a ship on a multi year journey or allowing nature to take its course saving cima. A hard science fiction thriller. By travis taylor and less johnson from bain books dot com. It's free talk. Live for those who think that these. I don't want to call. These groups libertarian but these militia groups the book a little boys. Let's call them. That are a bunch of racism. Mean really they said in their own words what we want is for each and every one of our country men and women to realize that the militia and the patriots that you were told were a bunch of racists is not true. It was a tool to divide you against us. We're not racist. We're not hateful people we want to stand with all of you with each and every one of you and that's certainly the vibe. I've always gotten from the people. I know who i don't think they call themselves biglou boys but they they have all the trappings. What one would consider to be a bogu boy. I partied with some of these people at fork fast last year and they had no issue with me whatsoever so yeah my experience with them is not hateful or bigotry or any of these other things but let's go to the phones. We've got dave calling from new york dave. You're on free talk live. Hey guys how you doing. Hey what's on your mind tonight I heard you guys talking about sex within the first hour of the show I really don't believe in relationships because they don't work. I'm on tender. And i you know i i'm looking for you know just like a someone to come over and and i'm putting in. Is that right now. Because i don't know what you're about to say what it was not going to be. Fcc friendly and i don't want to waste time hitting the dump button. See day firm. Poughkeepsie is why. I don't really want to participate in shirtless. She talked live. Somebody from my kim. Yeah just just boobs. Oh yeah we could. We could talk about it. We can write out by. It wasn't a secret. Angie had actually just asked me if we're going to talk about it okay. So for those who don't know the entire back story here topless tuesdays where things on free talk live for a very long time and people are always asking. Why doesn't conan ever wear shirt. Well because topless tuesday's were probably in large part created by conan not wearing a shirt during the winter months warmer months in new hampshire. I don't know. did everyone go topless on tuesdays. Everyone did eventually named talked with men on tuesdays until yesterday. Now i've i've been topless on strings before. I have no objection. People can go online and see me can probably pretty easily if they want i have. I don't care noted. It doesn't matter to me one bit like with the republican meeting. The last meeting that we were at where they elected officials. I did it topless. I actually went and bought a barbells for my nipple piercings specifically for this. I bought the biggest barbells i could find. They were like this long and they were inescapably there and on top of that also wore a leash around my neck. That was like trailed off to the camera one was holding it and i sat to the whole meeting like this right very seriously. I'm sure yeah. I don't know how seriously it was. Yes a youtube dot dot. Co dot com at somewhere on there. It's not like pender anything but so yes there was also aria uncensored which was a show. I did briefly. I think there were four episodes of it was a having a really good time working too many hours stressed and the last episode called it quits on that but it was a show that was done topless and it got us a three days suspension from twitch. Despite the fact that you know topless tuesday's had been happening here on free. Talk live with ian cohen. And maybe someone else here and there and it had never been a problem we looked into twitches terms. then and they don't allow any toplessness. Okay but they never went after topless. Tuesday's so we're going to topless. She talk live next wednesday. Yes so yesterday. I decided topless tuesdays are coming back. I don't care if we get suspended from these platforms are banned for them. Ian doesn't care. So let's do it. And i don't care about topless yesterday yes and i don't care about being topless on the stream it was. This is not a good seat for me. Because i the way the cameras position i would have had ankle it down and i didn't do that just that at all but i don't think my nipples ever actually got in frame. They did look naked. I saw because my nipples are going to be in frame. Well i assume this will be done at your place. The busiest studio and that's because our cameras are ten. Eighty seven twenty. So you'll get okay so you'll get my head better detail and i decided okay. We know they will ban a trans woman or maybe they won't because my breasts or nonexistent basically nonexistent so i was surprised. Went twitch handed out that suspension when they did. But let's see how far we can push this thing because this it is fun. It's stupid and it's trolling but is also got a point to it. Yeah right a woman or trans woman says a woman or trans should be able to go topless. ina video of a man can do it. And so that's that's and they show you really. Normalize like nudism an absolutely. Yeah because people are so uncomfortable around if you see somebody and you're like oh god i'm really sorry i'm really sorry because you're you're taught that it's not okay to not have clothes on. It's really an american thing to had a german friend. And like i would always like just you know we'd be getting undressed in the gym locker room and i would just like naturally not look at her and she'd always laugh and be like. Oh my god bunny so american. Like we're just both women pavlova pavlo pavlovian the way that we treat nudity and sex in our minds. You know a person isn't getting naked. Unless they're doing one or two things they're either about to engage in sexual activity or about the shower. Those are the only two times the the average person ever naked and the only time they ever see. Another naked person in person is when they're about to engage in sexual activity so to them. Those two things become linked in their mind and this happens at very early ages were. Oh a naked person means sex and it's just like pavlov's dog where every time he rang the bell. He fed the dog and eventually just ringing. The bell would be enough to make the dog salivate. Just like that. just see. Nudity becomes enough to arouse the average human being normalizing. Nudity is by far the best way to solve that problem. I agree but it's also very hot in new hampshire. That's i'm wearing the top. That i'm wearing i would prefer to just be topless. I spent most of my life just going around topless and now suddenly. I can't do that. I'm not allowed to do that. Is illegal in some places. It will get us banned from twitch bermuda gym that. I'm a member of she. When michael used to work out topless and she said just so you know when he comes back there have been some people who've been complaining not because of him but have been complaining about being uncomfortable with the men not having their shirts on so they end like the men that they were complaining about were ripped that says. They were uncomfortable because they felt In inferior see. That's not the way to solve this. The the way to solve this problem is not to make in and conan put shirt psycho. It's to say okay. You're right what what is wrong about you. Sitting there not wearing a top while talking about whatever topic happens to come up. We're not even focusing on the fact that we're topless. We kind of did last night and we obviously will be next week. But it's not like we sat around talking about how great it was to be topless and why people should go check. I'll be great not to wear a bra. I'm looking forward to it. Yeah it's going to be a great time and you can watch it video dot freetalklive dot com. That'll be the best place to watch it because the other ones the other was gonna shut it down pretty quickly but hey maybe they won't. I don't know i'm interested to see what's going to happen. How many video affiliates are we going to lose for next. That's to be good episode. She talked live. And how much hate mail is going to be the comets. It's going to be a very successful stubborn fines. You think they will get in trouble. I don't think we're we're not doing anything. We're just waiting okay. Their terms yeah. We're inside a house so it couldn't be illegal right and i went topless at a lake before. Where is an illegal in austin and it was pretty fun to bombings in freeing legal. Envy topless in new hampshire in public. I believe that's correct. I know it is in brattleboro. I think the thing northampton h like the topless protests. Tj was saying that in keene specifically there's one kind of law that they could get you often. It says like anything. I wish he was here to say the exact whereabouts right. You can be topless. But you can't do anything that is gross. Yeah or grosses and they're like sneeze or call or send a different way. I think just. La coughing naked. Looks good okay. So that's what's coming up next week and hurry are watching this. You might wanna check out odyssey. You can find it at video dot freetalklive dot com because twitching youtube. Facebook aren't gonna let this happen log. There's more coming up. It's free talk live. It's free talk live and we're talking about the way that the fbi has just absolutely infiltrated these various anti-government organizations and then proceeds to suggest they get involved they escalate things like hey. You're just posting on facebook. I have a friend who can hook you up with all the bombs you need. Let's go meet him. And then that person is an undercover fbi agent and they been doing this for a very long time and they're going. There's been a lot of names a lot of places in this story. So i don't expect you to remember any of them because i know that i don't and i don't even remember the timeframe that we're talking about here when they say late. The following sunday following what. Dan was ushered into the fbi. I don't remember a. Dan either was ushered into the. It's a long. We're only halfway through this thing. I mean there's no way we're finishing it but it gives a really horrifying glimpse into just how far off the rails the fbi has gotten. They're not investigating criminals anymore. They're creating criminals. He was ushered into the fbi agent in flint. A one story building with an unmarked door flanked by a pair of potted flowers. So the fbi is office in downtown. Flint is a one story building. That's just completely unmarked. And it's just got a pair of potted flowers out front. He was there to make a phone call in the presence. Of his fbi handlers. It had been a week so this this is a secret police station in the middle of this town made to look completely innocuous that's terrifying. There are all sorts of buildings throughout the united states. That could be. Fbi offices if this is what they're doing that they're behaving a secret police force. It had been a week since the meeting in dublin and matters were quickly advancing. That was a meeting. That was organized by an fbi. Informant with an extensive criminal pass which is why he started being an fbi. Informant in the first place. Like i said there's a reason i can't keep up with the names and the places involved here because this extensive and it's just oh the fbi was all over this from the very beginning in informant was the one an fbi. Informant was the one who set up this national meeting of various people interested in militias. I don't know how much more involved they could be in it that sunday. The watchman called fox at the person fox during a field training at more. Since i don't remember morrison either but the connection was bad and nobody could hear much over all the gunshots then who had recently been elevated to second in command or echo offered to call fox later after training ended. He raced to the fbi office in place to call on recorded line. As asia's listed listened in. Dan pressed him about the meeting in ohio dublin fox. Oh dublin ohio was to place where this meeting was had. Dublin fox said was about changing the paradigm. The media treated patriots unfairly after he and other patriots occupied the state house in lansing. They called us domestic terrorists. We want to take that stigma off and let them know who we are. Because we're not racist. Were not white nationalists. We just want our constitution. Upheld and i gotta tell you i am skipping the f word a lot here and is becoming difficult to do so i'm gonna move on instead of having to myself in a minute laughing. Fox said his dream was to have the governor hog tied down on a table for public display. The way agents spread seized guns and drugs across the table like hunting trophies after a big bus. And it's not just dea agents every place force. And i've seen some of these. That are so bad. When i saw last night was three three white police officers who look exactly like every other white police officer shot. I don't know why began attempting to try to describe them standing in front of table. That had maybe eight ounces of weed on it and a gun and a single clip and a little bit of cash and these. These police officers each one of which was open carrying a weapon. A gun said violent violence drugs lead to violent crime and the streets are now a little safer. Now that we've taken a dangerous weapon off of them. There is a police department who busted some people for pot and like so many negative comments and stuff like that. Was this one where someone says. Hey give wyatt urp his. We'd back some of the best helmet i've ever seen. Why was this guy from the wild west so they took a really really old into probably incapable of firing gun from this dude and just a tiny amount of weed. I don't remember what the amount of weed was but it it wouldn't have gotten you charged with anything. It would have gotten you find in new hampshire for having. That's and i think i think the cash they seize was only light once if i remember lot it was like four one dollar bills laid out. And they're life busted this guy. It's sad and they're proud of this. They're proud of ruining people's lives absolutely over guns. That probably don't work and drugs that make you sleepy. Yeah hungry happy. Sleepy was away. Cat williams characterized it and one of his standup. Those as far as we can tell are the effects of marijuana. They make you hungry. Make you happy and they make you sleepy. I don't know what they is. It makes me happy. Hungary 'sleepy so. I mean cops are bizarre and i don't understand how they do what they do with. How how do you become a police officer. Trying to make the world a better place and then admit on facebook to the whole world that you think guns are dangerous while you're open carrying three guns. That's not that's not constitutional. It's not it's not rule of law is just abject tyranny guns are dangerous unless we the government enforcers are allowed to have guns come. They have to have their guns in order to enforce their laws because if they didn't if they didn't weren't arm there's no way that we would obey what they ask or what they tell us to do because they really don't ask you know they don't and it works in the united kingdom but in the united kingdom the average citizen isn't likely carrying a concealed gun exactly. The there are a lot of guns in the united states. Isn't it like three four for every citizen. There's there's have no idea. I don't remember the number now but but i'd be curious to find out. It's a lot so they were planning to take the building. Take the hostages. I can't they said. I can't do anything with less than two hundred men but at best they could muster fifteen to twenty people and they just go on. They're planning to kidnap the or to arrest the governor of michigan and the the whole point of the story tonight was just how involved the fbi really was. These are not people who are looking for criminals as we said there are people who are creating situations that would have never happened if they this organization the fbi didn't exist. I remember watching a documentary. Several years ago about the time that i don't i don't remember the details now so i'm just gonna move on but i mean the fbi it. They would have if they needed to provided the explosives to blow up this bridge for this group of people who planned to do that and they probably would have been real exposed explosives. Oh yeah because that's what they do. They don't care about the loss of life that they calls. Why should they not the bigger the crime in the more that it destruction it causes the bigger the penalty or the the Yes sentence thank. You are violent criminals like the ones that we covered in the story today like the guy who beat his wife and the other guy who has a cop some of the cops themselves are violent criminals. So they don't care if they blow up a bridge in somebody drives off of in the middle of the night. that was trask. The agent who got into an argument with his wife and proceeded to bash her face on the nightstand and choker so definitely violent. Dude doesn't seem to care that much i mean. That's how he treats his wife the person he's supposed to love and i can't imagine what that means. He how he treats the average person in he gets personal recognizance bail while nobody has never done anything. Violent and fifty. Two years is still walked up because they mentioned january six during his trial. It is bizarre that the is unfortunate. That's how corrupt the system really is. Oh but the. Fbi agent has a bad. Yes but he dude. He like bashed his wife's head against the nightstand her. Yes intent to call the article here. Just said oh. He got arrested for intent to cause serious bodily harm. Can you give me a little bit. More details was in the murder. His wife all because of an off a disagreement about a swingers party that they both attended. Yeah exactly it's like. She went off and went to a swingers party. Your to a swingers party. Don't get upset when she finds somebody else. Yeah the that's the whole point exactly loser but he got up. So i mean he's a violent doug i mean that's what they do so he got upset and he attacked the person he loves. So it's not surprising to think that you know. Yeah if they could have. They would've provided real bombs and this the iraq vet. Who was the informant from the very beginning. Not to mention the guy who organized this on a national level trying to get all of these militia grizzlies format. He was an fbi. Person obviously violent. He's iraq vet so they should be in trouble for like the whole idea. It shouldn't be the people who actually were just falling rules. No and it's starting to feel a lot like soviet russia man as i look around and see all these examples of people who were fbi informants in the fbi has the secret offices in their in their unmarked. Basically i don't know what to do about it. Join us next week. For the topless. She talked live gang up next week. Video dot freetalklive dot com will probably be the only place you can watch it. In ten eighty video freetalklive dot com the crypto six are preparing to defend ourselves against the state on march the sixteenth of this year. The federal government came after freetalklive. They raided the studio. They arrested several of our hosts. One of whom rich. Paul also known as nobody remains in custody. They picked us thinking that they would find easy targets. Man were they wrong because we do not intent to back down. Visit the crypto six dot com to find out how you can join the war for freedom and liberty. Bitcoin isn't a crime. Crypto currency is a crime. Don't let the powers that be take control of cryptocurrency and establish the likes of point based jimmy nine cracking as the next jp morgan bank of america and wells fargo key crypto decentralized and beyond the control of the federal government go to the crypto six dot com to learn more about how you can join this fight. The crypto six dot com.

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