20 Episode results for "Greenspan"

A DNA Company Lets the FBI In

The Journal.

00:00 sec | 1 year ago

A DNA Company Lets the FBI In

"This episode of the journal is brought to you by merrill. Get personalized investment advice and guidance to help. Turn your ambitions into action. What would you like the power to do. Learn more at merrill dot com the explosion of at home d._n._a. Test kits which have been taken by millions of americans has has opened a new world of opportunity for law enforcement to solve crimes but there's no standard set of rules on whether police can access these databases and if they can under what circumstances that decision is largely left up to the people who run the d._n._a. Companies today on the show the inside story of how the founder of one of these companies wrestled with this decision and what his struggle all to define his relationship with law enforcement says about the future of d._n._a. Privacy welcome to the journal our show about about money business and power. I'm caitlyn bop and i'm ryan knutson. It's thursday september fifth. One day late in twenty seventeen bennett greenspan president of family tree d._n._a. Gets a phone call. Amy dr marcus covers healthcare for the wall street journal as the president of a d._n._a. Testing company bennett greenspan was no a stranger to getting phone calls from various. People often people would call him and say hey. I've got this perplexing results. Can you talk me through it and more or i don't understand my d._n._a. Results i need some extra help and he was a genealogist himself. You love doing it and so he would spend time with them but this particular the phone call was unusual because the person on the other end of the phone was an attorney for the f._b._i. The attorney for the f._b._i. I wanted to talk to him about d._n._a. Testing he explained to him that he had some d._n._a. From a really horrific crime facing you told him it was a rape a rape scene and they were running up against a dead end. They just could not identify. This suspect they had put the d._n._a. Into the f._b._i.'s national database and they were just coming up empty they didn't have leads to who this person was and any really wanted to try to catch him. Ben greenspan did not get into d._n._a. Testing for questions like this. He started the company because he was passionate about genealogy and he was looking for a new business opportunity he had spent can't most of his life running business selling supplies for for photography and he had sold the business and was sort of in between between things and he told me that he was hanging around the house a lot and he was starting to sort of <hes> alphabetize all all of the food and the cans and his kitchen. His wife said to him you know. Do you have something else you could be doing a hobby and he i did have a hobby in fact his hobby and his passion was genealogy. He has loved genealogy. He said since the age of twelve bennett has been interviewed about my grandmother died and later that night when people came to the house to offer their condolences. I was walking around with a piece of paper in a pencil saying essentially tell me about where are you from and where were your parents from and what were your aunts and uncles names and when they died died and when his wife sparked him to start thinking what's my next act. What should i be doing next. He decided that he was really interested in genealogy testing and he started the company in nineteen ninety nine and they started offering the test in two thousand family tree d._n._a. D._n._a. was one of the first companies to make dna testing. Commercially available greenspan took a technology that was mostly used by academics and turn it into a test this kid that everyday people could take it home mail back to the company and find out who they're related to and even where their ancestors came from now twenty years later. It's one of the largest d._n._a. Testing companies with a database of more than a million people. It was that database of customers that the f._b._i. The i attorney who called up greenspan about the rape case wanted to access and the f._b._i. Attorney said look you know you have a d._n._a. D._n._a. database that would allow access to a a wider pool of individuals. Could we somehow have our d._n._a. From the crime scene processed and turned into a dna data file and then could we upload that data file into your database and then just as this is done sort of ordinarily routinely with customers every day. Could we then see if there are any d._n._a. Matches any relatives relatives in your database who might be a match for our suspect so basically they wanted to use the family tree dna database by uploading the d._n._a. of the suspect to try to identify the suspect or at least identify some of the suspects relatives. They may not get the identity party of the suspect immediately but if we put the d._n._a. Into that database we may get a match a genetic match with a distant relative of our suspect the man that committed the crime they can start to fill in the blanks and then supplemented with other kinds of publicly likley available information and slowly slowly slowly narrow down the pool of suspects and how does greenspan react to this request from the f._b._i. To upload the d._n._a. D._n._a. data from this unsolved rape case. He said he thought about it but you know greenspan said to him pretty much immediately during the course of the conversation conversation that's okay. I'll let you do it. Do you have any doubts that it wasn't a good idea. He didn't seem to have doubts about it. He really leave felt that it was the right thing to do. He said i just felt as a human being as a citizen that i wanted to help not long after that the f. b. I. attorney came back with another brutal unsolved case. The second call took place in early twenty eighteen eighteen. He got the call again from the same f._b._i. Attorney that he had talked to and this case in some ways was even more horrifying to him because does he said it involved a dead child who did not have any identity known. He thought about that case in particular because he he thought to himself the very fact that there was this poor little child that nobody had come forward to claim that the child had been missing an unidentified for so so long he thought to himself who wouldn't report a dead child. You know maybe the family was involved in the child's death. I wonder if there's another child old in this family's home. What if this child might come to harm. What if i buy cooperating and trying to identify this child. I'm able to prevent some harm coming from another child. All of this was racing through his mind as he's thinking about giving permission to do another other data search in his database in the end. Bennett greenspan decided to give permission to the f._b._i. For a second time and was he able to help solve these crimes in the case of the missing child ultimately that specific case wasn't solved through who familial matching dna database it was someone called the tip line and gave them a tip that they fall out so traditional police methods yes what about the rape case the rape case. He said that he was told later. He didn't know at the time but he said that the rape case became part of this broader investigation instigation that ultimately led to the identification of the golden state killer. Why very famous case police police in sacramento county california believe they crack the long cold case of the golden state killer. They did a surveillance and they waited for him to discard something something into the public domain they then take that item back to the lab and try to generate a profile from that typically d._n._a. Samples from crime scenes are compared to the the f._b._i.'s database but in this case investigators did something very different. They turned to commercial d._n._a. Databases to find a family tree that led them to the a golden state killer suspect joseph dangelo. This could be the first time law enforcement use commercial dna databases to catch a killer to be clear family tree d._n._a. Was only part of what it helps. Solve the golden state killer case but the f._b._i. Told greenspan that it was a factor. The key breakthrough actually happened later when the data file file was uploaded to another dna database but the success of the case put police access to dna databases into the spotlight it generated generated some public debates about genetic privacy issues as well but it also sparked a lot of intense interest by all kinds of law enforcement local goals state federal in possibly exploring the use of this kind of genetic genealogy matching and and greenspan gets a call from the f._b._i. Attorney who says hey could we do. Could we do some more routine use of this could we could we use your lab abc. Could we do this more. Routinely and greenspan's initial reaction at this point is is no no i. I prefer not to do that because he's sort of willing to help out in one in case but he doesn't necessarily want to formalize the relationship in the way that the f._b._i. Immediately wants to do correct you know the way he described it to me. Was it's one thing to be like. You know a good citizen. When these urgent cases i was worried potentially that another person might be in harm's way but but this other requests it just sort of like saying you know. Would you possibly think about opening up this other sort of arm of business and his initial reaction was no oh but the f._b._i. Attorney wouldn't give up. He continued to call greenspan regularly. Sometimes he just called a chat other times. He'd be more direct and make another request to access family tree d._n._a. Data but ben greenspan saw himself as a genealogist attend a businessman not a crime solver and yet the f._b._i. Kept calling eventually greenspan had to make a decision about his customers chris data fats after the break. This episode of the journal is brought to you by merrill with merrill straightforward advice and personalized guidance. You have the power to put your plans into action. Whether it's pursuing a passion project or shaping your legacy. What would you like the power to do. Learn more at merrill dot com investing in securities involves risks and there's always the potential of losing money merrill makes available products and services offered by merrill lynch pierce fenner and smith incorporated a registered broker dealer member s._i._p._c. <music> bene- greenspan had allowed the f._b._i. To access his d._n._a. Database to help them investigate too cold cases and now he had to decide whether to share even more the other major d._n._a. Companies like twenty three and me and ancestry dot com say they don't cooperate operate willingly with law enforcement unless they get a court order or a subpoena but with family tree d._n._a. The f._b._i. Wanted to make a special deal. Let's cut cut out the middleman and come straight to you the f._b._i. Attorney didn't give up. He said look you know i'm going to come to hugh was subpoenas now on a really frequent basis. Wouldn't it be easier. If you know you don't have to go through this need to have lawyers and subpoenas. Isn't there a way that we could find an arrangement that we could work together and he said that he felt that he did not want to deal with that. He does not have an in house lawyer. He was using outside attorneys. You know on an as needed basis and he said that he didn't want to have his own personal passion the kind of family genealogy he didn't want to be distracted from that with having to deal with subpoenas and that was another sort of factor in in his thinking on well. Maybe i should make a decision. Greenspan decided to do it to formally allow the f._b._i. To access says his d._n._a. Database greenspan said that he did not feel that the kind of access that the f._b._i. Would have would be any different than a typical customer. It wasn't that in his view he wasn't giving access unfettered access to genetic information the information from the f._b._i. Would receive in return would be the information. A customer would receive in return. You know they charge the f._b._i. For the service of creating reading the files uploading the data you know in doing the genetic matching and sort of like talking to them to sort of walk them through some of the stuff so it's not like like it's done as a free service. It's still a business <hes> so he's sort of saying the f._b._i. Is basically like any other customer the end of the day that was his viewpoint viewpoint. What was the ultimate arrangement that family tree d._n._a. Struck with the f._b._i. They agreed that they would on a regular basis. Allow the f._b._i. Under certain sort of restrictions on the types of cases that the debate over what types of cases kind of went back and forth but ultimately and cases involving homicide sexual assault child kidnapping and the identification of deceased individuals to be the types of cases that they were willing to allow searching they also determined a system of consent what they said is that it anyone who's in the database in the united states u._s. Customers they would consider them available for law enforcement matching zhang and less those customers took affirmative steps to opt out of it so greenspan makes the decision to they work with the f._b._i. And how does he decide to tell his customers about his decision. He goes i with his marketing director and they sit down together and and one of the points that the marketing director sort assessed to him. Is we really need to explain to customers. Will there be any limits. Like where are we gonna draw the lines and that's a question that is really hard to answer and i think overall you know. Greenspan feels so strongly that this is an important thing to do and if i just if i could sort of like sit down with every customer and explain it to them. I know they'll see it my way 'cause i really believe in this the plan they had was they wanted to create eight videos he says i don't want to just send out an email. I i'd really like to have videos or something where i can really almost i feel like i'm having a personal conversation with my customer and they can really see my facial expressions and how important this is to me and they make a plan to to do that but he's going on vacation. This is a long planned vacation in mid december two thousand eighteen and they they decide that upon upon his return in january two thousand nineteen they'll work on these videos but the plan didn't go exactly as they wanted <hes> they got a call from a a reporter at buzzfeed who said he was working on a story. They weren't able to sort of roll out the announcement in the way they wanted to do it and when the buzzfeed story appeared they were really surprised by the public reaction it got widely discussed both among genealogists you know in this community of people that they knew very well more widely i mean it was picked up and discussed by other publications ends and greenspan's started getting you know a whole range of comments including a lot of pushback family tree d._n._a. It quickly published the videos of greenspan explaining his decision. I would never do anything to betray the trust of my customers. There's and at the same time i felt it important to enable my customers to crowd source the catching of criminals but greenspan's still faced criticism well. There were a lot of people who were upset by the the fact that a single individual you know at a company could make a decision that would have impact on a lot of people. He told me that he had friends. You know personal friends who said to him. You know it just makes me really uncomfortable when you take d._n._a. Test i you are expecting to find a relative perhaps but you're not expecting that the person on the other side of the match might be a law enforcement person who's doing an investigation asian and so that was part of the reaction to you know i spoke with many people who said i don't feel comfortable with law enforcement searching but i'm okay with having my day to use for research with pharmaceutical companies and other people who said exactly the opposite companies make these distinctions and then customers customers are informed about well you know twenty three and me asks customers if they are willing to consent to have data used in research coach and when they signed their deal with pharmaceutical company they sent an email saying if you don't want consent for research for pharmaceutical companies you can withdraw consent that approach of asking customers to withdraw their consent is what family tree d._n._a. Had offered its customers but not many people did data but according to greenspan fewer than two percent have opted out so that's a small number now greenspan's viewpoint is this confirms what i believed which is people understand that this is being done to solve terrible crimes and that as good citizens of a society we have a vested interest in finding criminals and helping solve missing persons cases or unidentified. If i'd victims we want to bring closure to families. I think that my decision was the correct. One genetic privacy experts argue will you really can't know for sure because does people have to take proactive steps and people don't like to take proactive steps. It's it's a very complicated to explain to them. How do you know for sure that they've consented. Therefore the most ethical thing to do is go to every single person and tell them if you want to do this if you share my vision that this is an important thing for society you you should ogden and consent and be affirmative that you want to participate in this lesson is here for people who are maybe thinking thinking about doing one of these d._n._a. Tests themselves. I think that often people get d._n._a. Tests as gifts and they think it's fun on and that it's sort of a light kind of almost piece of entertainment won't this be wonderful and you know what for many people it is. It's amazing the things you can find out there've been there are so many wonderful heartwarming stories and there's also a lot of surprises that have come before you decide to do a test at least understand then what are the rules of the company that you've chosen and do they fit your viewpoints. Your vision for what you wanna do with your d._n._a. Bennett greenspan i understand. He hasn't really told his story before. Why do you think you decided to talk to you. I think that you you know he was surprised. In some i think and and felt a little bit misunderstood at the public controversy i mean there are other people who are weighed in and said you shouldn't have been surprised but he did feel surprised and i think that he wanted to explain blaine his reasons for doing so and i think that he believes that if he's able to explain it that more people will agree with him <music> then we'll not whether he's right in that few points remains to be seen <hes> <music> kate here in yesterday's episode we looked at we work the most highly valued startup in the u._s. and and how as the company prepares for its i._p._o. Questions are being raised about its business model and high valuation. Today sources tell the wall street street journal that we works parent company is considering slashing its valuation in half from forty seven billion dollars to around twenty billion dollars dollars and we work has also been talking to one of its biggest investors about delaying the i._p._o. For more background on we work tune into yesterday's episode code. Thanks for listening. We'll see you tomorrow.

Bennett greenspan greenspan attorney rape ben greenspan bene- greenspan merrill lynch pierce fenner wall street journal ryan knutson president founder Amy dr marcus f._b._i. buzzfeed D._n._a. sacramento county joseph dangelo
Docs Dial Reps - Julia Greenspan

Docs Dial Reps Podcast

00:00 sec | 8 months ago

Docs Dial Reps - Julia Greenspan

"Welcome to the dock style reps podcast where we talked with medical device sales reps about how they got started how to support docs and tales from the or. If you're interested in asking a question on the show please email info at dock. Style DOT COM. Welcome to the dock style podcast. I'm your host nate. Darling we're here. Today with Julia Greenspan a super experienced device. Professional would stryker now. Julia serves as the West area. Education Specialist Teeny as senior Orthopedic Trauma Consultant Julia. It is great to have you on the show. We're excited to learn about what is life in the real world. Oh are from the perspective of a female in the device industry are thank you for having me awesome. So let's let's start at the beginning. Why did you get into medical? I was super lucky home. I was you know right place right time. Right attitude As kind of my favorite way to put it so I started in high school Sort OF IN A. There's a program that we had for students who wanted Um and there was an rn. Running the program. I was super lucky to have that in Oakland California and I quickly learned that most kids were using it to ditch school but I was one of the year I was one of the few very interested I wanted to go to medical school. And I didn't WANNA I was Gonna be on my art and so I didn't want to go through all the time and energy and expense if I couldn't handle it and so I looked into the program and it turned out. I was the only one who actually cared about where we've played And so the operating room was actually an option so I started in sterile processing at fifteen And I was very very lucky. I had some people there who are really rooting for me. And so instead of staying the two hours that I was required I wound up quickly seeing that like if I just didn't extra four or whatever I became quickly one of the staff there and then I got hired on While I went to college I stayed. There is a surgical technology and then I just graduated. Uc Davis and I got approach places. These trauma just finished Tibia Nail and the record asking me. Hey degree and I said yeah I just got it You know Kinda starting school and he said well if you ever want to think about a medical device And I still remember looking at him. Brian Murray Amazing Guy. And saying I don't know what you do your magical creature. Who Comes in here children? What to do? And you leave but beyond that I have no clue and so he kinda giggled. Whatever give it a shot and so I kinda went down the rabbit hole and I wound up getting a position with some trauma in Oakland under like the godfather of something's trauma and the bay area so I got really lucky. His name is Jay Wizner. He's a legend eleven. I mean he's like my second God And so I worked you know for since these for almost a decade and then went back to surgical technology for a couple of years and then the Lakers so pretty crazy like right place right time sort of situation for me. Surgical technicians assist surgeons and other medical professionals in hospital operating rooms and similar environments chiefly. They prepare patients rooms and equipment for pending surgical procedures. They also assist during those procedures. As part of a team of operating room professionals. Many successful medical device reps started out as surgical technologists absolutely so in terms. So that. That's how you did it. But what was what was the motivating factor behind it to begin with. Why did you want to get into medical? You'd mentioned going to medical school may be what was what was the drive behind all of that at that time you know. I had friends that were also applying for medical school or looking into it and the expenses pretty intense so I even have a friend. Now you know she's out finisher obgyn residency and she's got four hundred and fifty thousand dollars in debt. And so I was looking at medical device and after that interview with these and met J. I was like wait a minute. Let me get this straight so I can continually learn for the rest of my career. I just I get paid to go to industry meetings. I get paid to see lectures. I will get to specialize in a field and then I'm like I don't have to pay for it was it was pretty gobsmacked when I realized I don't know the opportunity that was in front of me and so I figured if I don't like it I can always go back to school and if I do like it then I made probably one of the best financial decisions while still getting the satisfaction of getting specialized in a really interesting field has Ortho was always made. I love And specifically Ortho trauma so it was a pretty perfect fit I couldn't pass it up and it's proved very like correct for my personality. I really the the constant learning part of it has has not failed me now. You mentioned you. You got your first opportunity out of school in Oakland. What was that initial experience like for you? Yeah I think I was very fortunate that since I grew up in the. Or 'cause I mean by the time Got Barrett Twenty Four. I'd already been in the operating room for seven years. I I knew the the culture and I think when new reps come and it can be really difficult because they don't understand the culture of the lar. And so for me. That was not so much of a leak. Tell you the hardest thing was not scrubbing in Anyone who has been part of the team or has ever been a surgical technologist And all of a sudden being told don't touch anything blue and did you sign in Is Incredibly hard. 'cause he realized okay. That's now outside my scope of practice and that adjustment for me was difficult and it's still difficult You know I still miss it so I go and medical mission so that Hart an Orthopedic Trauma. Sales representative is primarily responsible for providing technical advice to customers to help achieve the sales directives in assigned geography as a trauma sales representative. You work with a high degree of intensity and commitment to sell orthopedic trauma products that meet the need of the Orthopedic Trauma Surgeon in that. First Opportunity. What did you learn man so so so much I think Even searchable text. But I thought you now nurses that I talked to you now. I think that they don't quite realize just how much goes into making a case. Go well You know you have to be incredibly detail oriented to be successful and you have to truly care about your patient your surgeon and your staff and how the case goes and in order to make that happen sometime. Great efforts taken so for instance if a surgeon called me When I was a Cynthia's and they'd say hey evil rink late well at the time. That was a very. You know. Sort of niche. That wasn't really common in our area. I would just say sure. I'll have there tomorrow and what that meant was I was saying. Sure dropping the phone texting a million people trying to find the plate driving to Sacramento. Which ones you know a two hour schlep getting the plate driving to the hospital minutes? This whole back end process that I can either tell the surgeon. Yes I'm going to have it Or No I can't get it but if I can. I'm not gonNA worry with logistics. It's my job to worry about the logistics and worn the hospital of my ETA. And all of that and back another through to go check. I didn't know I go to my case cartons. See that the loners were there or not there right right not you know. How do they get here? Is The trayful all these other questions? you know. All of a sudden were my responsibility. And so that's certainly huge huge learning experience for me. Now how did the experiences not first job help you get to the next step? Well I mean even the heyday Was you know a renowned way to learn how to do trauma The associate ships were two years. I was under an incredibly senior person. So I don't really fortunate in my position In that I had a really traditional very thorough so there was no hazing there was no like I mean I was in the. Or twenty four seven of course but You know sometimes. There are horror stories of associates that some companies are in some situations but wash my car I never had that. I had a very respectful senior. Who truly cared about me. Educational experience and growing Sort of my respect and my career so I got lucky there But I think that ultimately was really proving to myself that I had it in me to do And that may senior gave me the freedom to learn that about myself because I think when you get in a young associate sometimes you wonder. Gee I do this. This is a pretty adult job. This is a lot And Can I learn everything that I need to learn to do? Everything didn't need to do can I? You know Sort of foster might independence while keeping my patients safe. You know there's a lot that goes into those first couple years But if you're set up correctly I think that that really Enrich of your career. In a way that few other situations can so. That first job was paramount. But it's also 'cause I stuck it out. I think you to have that first experience. You need to be at your first company. A for as long as it's the right situation at least five years and I think that that is what made me a great rap. Was I have the time to get comfortable to fully sees end And that for me was really you know got with probably the best move I ever made was to really commit For almost a decade. And really get that you know that. Full experience the associate sales representative a SR actively assists more senior sales representatives and their day to day activities servicing surgeons and surgical facilities the SR covers cases daily deliveries returns inventory to and from surgical facilities and conduct sales activities at the direction of the more senior representatives. In the territory many device reps start as associates and it can be helpful to almost think of it as an apprenticeship usually an individual stays in this role for a minimum of one to two years. Now how did those experiences shape your view on device sales I say it's a mixed bag especially coming from someone in the operating room on the other side of the table right so I think I got very I got very frustrated when orthopedic trauma CEOS was mixed in with other divisions like Pharma gets wildly different. We have a totally different call scheduled at twenty four seven incredibly demanding I didn't do as many like Dora. Cold CEO calls as some other divisions either And I think for me. I felt like I felt very proud of being trauma. That was a badge that we were As a resource not just a rep and so you know for me. I think that that was probably one of the deciding factors to stay in trauma because it had a really clear ethical path for myself I never been like a car salesman tape like. He's my stove like I can't do that. I would see that sometimes and Kinda cringe And it's not to say that it's not a method you know it's definitely some people style and they have personality and like it actually works they get in front of people and they wind up being great But for me I really had to come from the education Standpoint of teach me everything. I WanNa know everything. Help me like help. You get there because I was managing residents So I needed to help them on their path as well and for me you know. I didn't notice it when I was a surgical tech I was I was just scrubbing in. The wreck was telling me what to do. I ain't no concept of the depth of knowledge And I gained a lot of respect for medical device after I became a rap. Because there's so much that we have to deal with and so much that we know that that has to be behind the scenes in order for it to function And so you never really. You don't know what you don't know And so I have high respect for medical device particularly traumas buying. Cmf Like in sports. It's a tough GIG now. Historically speaking medical device sales tend to be male dominated? Now do you see that? Changing at all Her tough question. I I would like to say yes. I think. There's more awareness I can say that for. Sure there is definitely more awareness with the need for diversity. Medical Device Particularly Female I don't necessarily see it changing as quickly as I'd like to. But that's not necessarily a function of the companies. I don't think I think some of that is a function of the job itself. But you're asking someone who does trauma and anyone who's in China will tell you. It's probably the most unforgiving schedule so if you're a woman. I had a pregnancy while at disease trauma and that is pretty. It's almost unheard of to have a pregnant female trauma and someone who actually come back to the job. very very very rare. I remember emailing the country trying to find all the female trauma up. I think I found thirteen Just to get their experiences of a pregnancy Only two of them had had a pregnancy and only one of them has stayed in trauma. So that's pretty bad if that's the entire country. I'm pleased that they're another woman. I can talk to you about this So you know because of that demanding schedule. I think that sometimes there is a you know. Either it's a lack of interest or a lack of sort of the social support to be able to have this job like I have to have a stay at home husband in order to have this job And that's pretty rare these days and so until I think that you know a woman gets supported aspects to be able to have that pager on You know the retention is not going to be high but that's not necessarily the fault of the company that's a function of the job. Did you know that striker created the striker women's network the S. W. N. is committed to encouraging a more inclusive work environment and providing a forum that offers women new opportunities to grow as professionals leaders and individuals S. W. N. Initiatives include a sale subcommittee. That is dedicated to attracting developing and retaining women in the salesforce and a mentor ship subcommittee which is focused on enriching mentorship programs across striker. Currently there are over fifteen hundred plus members across the globe. Way To go striker right now. I'm sort of expanding on that. Because you are one of the few women who've had that experience do you feel a sense of responsibility to be a leader for women coming along behind you in that aspect? Oh a hundred and ten percent Yes yes I actually often get get paying Especially from colleagues who may have a female rap in their branch you know. Sometimes as far forward as New York Gotten contacted from other countries of FEMALE TRAUMA REPS. Who were looking for some support I mean you know. And that's that's pretty impressive if I think that we're having to reach that far to get Not just a device but seasons advice and that. I think the difference is they're looking for someone who's been doing this long enough to actually offer a seasoned outlet gone. Hey He's interested you know. Here's my advice or here's how. I feel about that And you know Stryker completely lost their mind and they decided. I should be a part of the striker women's network which is really cool. I didn't really know that we had something like that until recently And so they decided I'd be the West area Sort of lead for that for that initiative which I think is great But it's also again you know. How do we make trauma? More accessible to females You know and that's going to be something that we look at over the next. You know five years. I'm sure now. What is it like being a female in an industry? That's historically had a lot more male reps than female If different and I felt and coach the mail manager about. Hey you know you might. You might have to coach your your female associates and your female rep a little bit differently In that I think we have to come from a different place. Where some male reps you know. They may be able to get away with a little bit more socializing or kind of buddy buddy You know sort of persona with their surgeons when they first start I think for me and for from most females we feel can not be successful. You really have to lead with her knowledge And it's not necessarily fair but I think it's a reality that we get judged Everybody gets touched when they first met. And we're not special but I think that females in particular you know sometimes from hospital staff sometimes surgeons themselves It just becomes a slightly more lenient. We're a little bit more under a microscope with do you know your product knowledge. Are you going to be responsive Because that's kind of you know we have to leave with that. We I think when you lead with Any kind of third of social You know charisma you have to be careful there to make sure it's not taking an advance or you know you don't WanNa be the DC girl I remember when I vary. I got hired one of my surgeons at my old hospital said Jules don't be the hot rap Peter Smart rat and it was a really weird thing to say to me. At the time I was very taken aback but as soon as I got into the industry I was like all man. That's what he meant And I think it's really critical. You know you have to get yourself in situations where they can see how much knowledge you have and left that lead. So they trust you now. How companies helped facilitate The role that you have or have they You mean a female trauma general. Yes as as clean. I think that basically what your experiences. Yeah I think that you know. Management can sort of recommend whoever they think might be appropriate for a position but at the end of the day when it comes to entry level. Like if this if this is sort of new listening and her a female and they're like how do I? How do I break into that? Or who facilitate that I have to everything I have to my to my old senior Jake Wizner You Know He. He was the one who green lighted Rian said. Hey you know she seems quick. Seems like you've got something He was the one who believed in me. And I think it really takes that person. Just say hey you know. They have something special in there You know and some companies have personality tests and strength finders that they use to try to like hone in on those personality qualities that might be successful. There's different ways to go about it But for me at the end of the day I think you have to have a personal champion? You know you have to have someone who's willing to mentor you and train you But I mean most companies. Now I think they really try to look for ways to routine male grabs It's just a difficult task and trauma. Sure now in terms of medical facilities have they helped facility the rule for you or not at all not really I in some ways but I think at the end of the day our not. They're concerned they then only care If it's a female or a male they just want they want the set sterile they want everything complete like you know they care about the logistics like is my patient taking care of is Is My staff treated with respect? I will say that some of my surgeons actually wound up the some of my biggest champions during pregnancy. You know I was fine. I was happy to go. Sixteen hours could be like Jubilo. Sit Down Fine what are you doing? Everything's okay And they wound up really through taking care of me And in that way I felt very protected and cared for by my surgeons. Kind of actually carrying weather may feature. It's always nice. Most people don't care But as far as like stop themselves I kind of like to gender out of it I don't want them thinking about me as a female or a male up. I want them to be like. Oh man our strike rep is awesome like long they see my jersey. You know I don't really want them. Being concerned about the politics are bad. Okay now talking about your current role. What is it like working for? Striker striker. Straighter is unexpected. I think coming in as a seasoned sort of You know traditional Cynthia Rep. I was incredibly. You know I drink the KOOL aid. I didn't like straker. At first I had spent a decade sort of working against them and I I had an interview and I met this incredible. Gm Who just totally time at around for me. It's like everybody. I met surprise me because they were exactly my type of person who was so funny. Every time I ran into somebody at you know through the striker give cross us. I was just constantly like turn it. I do WANNA light. He that much and I quickly found out. Okay this might be actually a really good move for me this after the JJ acquisition fees. And I think that you know it had It wasn't really where I wanted to be anymore and I think I definitely found a home and I think it goes to show that I did because I was shocked they you. They've really listened to me and they've really they've really made me feel supported and You know allowed me to start working until leadership which you know. I was not expecting. What does a striker trauma? Sales Rep look like hard working winners. You love driving in the Fast Lane and live out your mission to change lives by selling striker products. That are making healthcare. Better mission driven sales people. You live your work feeding off. The extreme demands of trauma not counting hours but rather lives impacted energetic achievers upbeat associates who love being busy and never hesitate to help a customer or team member when needed so. That's the good. What what if any are the bad aspects about the company that you with now or things that might need to be. I think that every company has things to work on You know I think for me. H is a a process of the medical industry. As a whole I think every single company working on leaning out their business and reps don't like that all the time but that's every company I've never I've never really seen it as a company specific issue. I think that the more that you know reimbursements go down for hospitals and we start to see you know a tougher and tougher contract negotiations but all trickle down so I don't think there's any specific negative I'm actually at the Home Office this week and So you're getting me on a very like sunny positive day because I went into her medical library which we actually have a physical medical library which I don't think anybody has one anymore and I saw like you know journals journal Joint Surgery from Nineteen fifty-nine sitting on the show. I'm in heaven so I you know right now. I don't know I don't think we face anymore. Negative but another company dog. Good right now getting the on the day where. I got to see that. So that's andy that's fantastic so this is a special day But let's talk about what a day to day. is like in your current role. Yeah so my current role is interesting. So you know I just transitioned into it You know specifically from the trauma outside so so as a trauma rapids a little bit different right. Because that's just your phone is constantly on twenty four seven running and gunning Even your text alerts or honor ringtone. You know 'cause everybody texts now including surgeons who were letting you know about urgent emergent cases and so that's you know you're always on call And I'm still on called because I'm still kind of connected to my old territory but it is nicer now. That actually have a team in place so if something comes up. I'm allowed to if I'M DEALING WITH AN EDUCATION ISSUE. I can now sort of paying my team. And they will take care of the emerging case. So that's kind of a sort of new for me Sort of being in a more of a position a level being able to delegate But there's also a function of having you know people who are competent So I love my team do anything But usually up early I am talking to the East Coast a lot. And they're three hours ahead so usually up by six. At least usually already you know going And then dealing with you know a lot of logistics for education on one side and then case logistics on the other so it's kind of a bizarre hybrid role but But I love it so trauma is you have. No you have no outlined. You have no day to day. It is you wake up. You see what happens? You might have kind of skeleton sort of backbone idea what your day looks like Whether it's responding to case coverage case logistics needs to be handled or you know calls that I have as far as education goes or meetings and then whatever happens. Change could change the entire day so you have to stay really flexible now. What is the most challenging part of the current role? You have I think for me it. Is You know kind of getting people to drink the KOOL aid about. Just how important. Medical Education is I'm technically you know handling some of the educational duties for ten states. And that's that's a big patch of dirt covering And I'm a true believer and Just how impactful. We are as an industry to connect people so connecting Resonance to attending outside of their residency. I think is really important getting them. Different ideas getting them to the right meeting. health and get different skill down to that might not be able to get their residency program And that's just for me like my ultimate mission is to get education in every spot that I can cover what's hard. I'll be absolute ten states absolutely So that being said what's next for you. Oh man just started in this new role. So that is that is going to public. Need busy for the next couple of years. At least I tend to like to hunker down and you know especially when I have a big project. I really want to work on it as much as Canon perfect. It usually takes me at least a few years to do that though. I see myself in this role for early next couple of years You know and I'm happy to do that. Ultimately like if going into leadership with something that you know they were looking at for me. Then I'd have to really think about that. I love staying connected to the field But I worry about that when it comes for now I'll just you know. Try to stay above water talent. So let's turn our focus a little bit for for a moment. What do you think is the key to being a good rep? Oh how to be a good rep. That is like the holy grail question. Yeah I think it's a constellation of factors and ultimately is going to be different for some people than others You know everyone has different skill sets that they can capitalize on. I think Staying in your strengths and planning to your strength is a really big one As you kind of work on the things that you need to improve on maybe if you hate public speaking like work on that quietly you know like always be looking to improve yourself But if you're a great public speaker than recognize that and use that get out there and talk to people and you know. Give morning in services and give lecture play those strengths and hone those skills. I'm you should always be looking for improvement Be One hundred percents. Thinking about what? The other person is stressing on We did this workshop a long time ago. I one of my favorite things that I took away from. That workshop was people's pressure sheets like all in any conversation whether it's negotiation or whether it's just an interaction with staff or your surgeon or the guy stocks you know whatever be thinking of the other person's pressure sheet. Were they thinking about? What are they stressing about? Is it money family? Are They not aware of this case or are they not educated enough about it and how that could be impacting their reactions? And what you can do to neutralize it That's been really big for me. I think always thinking of the other person's position and that's kept it from being A reactionary position for me because I think a lot of reps especially when they're young if they're not treated well at a hospital. His owned time to retreat. It as you know the out fighter can take a personally and say man Lee was really mean to me at the front desk And it's like yeah that's kind of part of the but also keep in mind her pressure she don't take it personally. Maybe she's having a terrible day like it's not about you That will keep you steady and able to perform at your highest level and not kind of dive into the gossip and dive into the dark side Because it's not gonNA help you. It's it's just GonNa make your date worse Also keep you focused. On the case like I can't stress enough focus on the case like if you're a new rep and let's say you have a tubular plateau. The next day you know focus on the case today before. Do you have the equipment? Don't trust other people to take the equipment to the hospital if you do have them take pictures ultimately paranoid about everything. That's going into that case and triple check. Everything steadier technique guide that he the clinical side You know do whatever you can soak up every bit of information and then when you're in the case stop put your phone down and focus I can't tell you how many times even as a surgical tech that I had rats trying to learn on the fly and it's hard and trauma because we don't always know about our cases but oftentimes you have enough time to pick someone's brain that you know who's been around longer than you or be able to look up something in a journal look at a text book To get more information but once you're in the room you have to be. You have to be in that room. It people see you on your phone. Even if we're doing business like maybe a traumatised came into another hospital and your team working to communicate. That's a really tough situation. You know maybe you can shoot off a quick text but you have to put it down and that's always a really hard moment for a wrap because everyone thinks you're on facebook or something it's like no no no. I cover other hospitals and something really important happened But you know you have to see how that looks from the outside so be focused and then follow up you know. I think it's always okay to talk to the surgeon later and say hey you know how their house Monday? Sh okay. How's she doing And Kerr show that you care about your patients because ultimately like you're responsible for their hardware and that is no small matter and I think treating it with respect acting interested learning constantly. Learning is the only way to stay really happy in the job And you need that to be functional because if you don't love it you're you're gonNA WANNA leave it. It's too hard of a job not to love it. One Who gained strength by overcoming obstacles possesses the only strength which can overcome adversity right. Now when you are when you're working you prefer service or product when you're selling service. Okay now service. I think that in Orthopedic Trauma and a lot of companies now he'll products are becoming slightly more commodities. And you know I know that luckily I have. You know the fortune of of being the business a little bit longer I would always I would always like the prize. My service above everything else You know you're not going to necessarily use my this will play. You mean maybe it has something extra special that you know pick company Agriculture Company. Why But at the end of the day you can have the best hard rock planet and if the service is awful it doesn't matter you're GonNa get screw wrecks that aren't full. Maybe the plate that you used on Monday has not been restocked because the service is bad. And you don't have a Wednesday so it's kind of crazy. It's like the best service can still sell slightly. You know whatever less awesome eastern equipment but you can never have a strong commitment with horrible survey I would rather have my service absolutely down to a t and be honest about new products. And I'm very lucky. I have a great bag. I don't have anything to complain about But there's doubt who's like man I just don't know how I feel about. You know this product that we carry. We'll be honest about that if you're if you're wondering you're wondering and have an honest conversation and don't be afraid of that. I think that's what's so funny from times. People are afraid of like Oh. He can't know that I secretly heat. You know whatever your anger. It's like he totally wants to have that conversation like this habit. You know you'll learn something from it if anything. No you been good server. You might have the best quality product but that only gets you into the game even if you have a great product. It's impossible to win without great service and you probably covered a little bit of this in the key to being good rap but What do you think is the key to a long career and device sales? Oh it's getting harder and harder these days that it's so demanding but I really think you'd have to love you have to love your specialty There's people who say I want to get into medical device right and we'll medical devices as all encompassing Every specialty you imagine from Obgyn products to you know narrow You know biologic everything. So you really have to find your specialty I've had some people trying to break into the business. Who will contact me and say look. I'm trying to break into medical device. It's like you're thinking about this the wrong way to break into what specialty like. What piques your interest because I know for a fact that if I went to go I don't try to sell Davinci robot or something for me. Look for some people that is like the pinnacle under super excited and I think that the main thing for me is just not. It's just never really been my bag when I was scrubbing or even offered a position being offered an interview opportunity forgiven she. I'll just let robot cow you know But I know that about myself because I know that I wouldn't be passionate about it as I am about competing trauma key finding a niche finding people finding the topics that are gonNa make you stay late finding topics that are gonNA have like searching for white paper on Ovid That that is the key to the long career and golden your team. You have to love your team. You can weather a lot of storms if you have good people around you And that for me was absolutely critical. Got Very lucky. In every situation I had to have amazing people around me now. A lot of a lot of being in device sales is about relationships and building relationships. How do you engage with the new doctor? That's a good question Actually one that I get a fair amount from some sort of newer wraps tour like Nan and trying to get and find this guy And you know when I do what do I say and I think for me Honesty honesty is the route. And that's with any relationship personal or business You know you're not going to go up to someone on the street and try to like you know swindling and the hanging out with you know an ideal and like what are you interested in like you know what topics you know. Did you study like you? WanNa actually truly curious and interested in the personal view and that doesn't change when it comes to sales it's the same thing And I think being a hundred percent honest about your experience you know i. It's critical one of the ways that I think. Oh successful in forming relationships with recognizing particular surgeons who likes to teach and recognizing they were kindred spirit and okay I can ask him questions and just say I am so curious because I read this White Paper Day I want to get your take on it. and having meaningful conversation so it's not an excuse to get products in front of them. It's not an excuse to have a conversation. Actually curious and I am truly looking to them as a resource and then they would start to a community resource and it warms this symbiotic relationship between the two of you. Were you are truly helping each other in your careers and that is sort of like my idea of how to form a good relationship. Because I don't want IT TO BE PRODUCT BASE. I want that relationship to extend beyond product Because if you do the right thing the money will follow. That's what J wizner always told me And he's he's like just do thing. Don't worry about. Don't worry about a quarter right now. You're just starting out like you know we all think about it and it's always there but your surgeon should never see that stress on your face ever. That shouldn't ever enter your relationship with surgeon. In medical device sales it takes months maybe years to work with the customer and truly seconds to lose one now from a new relationship to existing relationships. How how do you maintain those relationships are a little bit different right I'm a little more formal. I'm a little more You know a little more careful until I really know someone Christianity especially the female on orthopedics has to be you know a little more caution can be you know Maybe making some of the the the bluer jokes with people. I don't know very well And so it's just a more formal service you know based resource based relationship And was surgeon to have known for a long time. Then obviously it's more casual. We can relax. You can talk to each other. We can giggle which in make fun of each other And then get right down to visit for. Release you Of course you know. And if it's the case that you know I still have to. You know we pull that back during the case because you have to be focused on the case no matter what but you know I go on a medical mission with some of my third jains and you know yeah is going to be slightly different relationship you bonded. We've been adventure together and Scrubbed in together And so it's a little bit more casual theory of just knocking around the holidays together. versus the new surgeon. So let's say for for instance you are someone who is looking for a new company to work for you transition from from your old company striker How do you? How do you go about that? Do you mean the like. How do we get the interview order? I look for new company. Let's let's say how do you get the interview You Know Lincoln's awesome I would say that lengthen is Probably one of the greatest resources for the people Including Me. I've made a lot of really NEAT CONNECTION. You know through that pathway Someone who interests me face your profile that I like like you know maybe bully great manager. you know I might reach? I just usually reach out to the manager personally I tend to go through recruiters. It's it's fine if it's like you have to really go from the outside But I tend to look for the people that I would be working directly under Because that matters more to me than almost unlike entire company culture like no no no who am I directly going to be under and do I believe in them And then from then if they respond to you you almost like K. Why should I work for you? You tell me why you're awesome and why should come over I think it's okay to have that mindset because of the big the big choice to move companies. Why is linked in important? Lincoln allows you to access important articles in posts which are relevant to you through your daily feed. It helps you develop a strong digital footprint which is essentially your personal brand it helps you research companies and industries find and apply for jobs and build a strong professional network if you were searching her job in medical device sales it is paramount to be on linked in. I think that's that's great advice and something. A lot of people might not have thought about So in terms of relationships. How do you manage your relationships with hospitals? Ooh hospitals are totally different animal than you're starting relationships I do a ton of the EU which are like Continuing Education Unit events for my staff. I think that you know you get from your stock what you put in and you know. It's not something that's going to be you know for the the super sale people out there. It's not like you're gonNA see a media our life from like one educational event But you're not trying to get that that is your fostering you know you're fostering sense of goodwill your Imparting knowledge which is critical for some of these people Thirty technologist and their current textbook. They don't actually go in-depth at all into orthopedics and so when you have these newer surgical taxes some of these newer. Rn's circulating you know you have to realize like nobody actually sat them down and explain some of the basics of Ortho so one of my least favorite moment. Because if I hear a competitive rapper someone around the kind of all that surgical-type with terrible or like oh she didn't know what she's doing. It's like well wait a minute. Go be part of the solution. Grab A whiteboard. Grab a pen and talk to them like we know so much and can impart so much knowledge That it only takes care basically. It is hard work. It Elbow Grease To actually do a lab or to DO MORNING TRAUMA. Talk or things like that and for me. That's how I engage the best staff because I love teaching and I think that having also been a surgical tech and you know sort of been one of the staff I can speak to both sides of the table Which I think is sort of you know. I think it's pretty critical when you're talking to those to those newer tax Who might not know about things like you know the little basics And so yeah for me. That's you know that's been my greatest win You know give them one hundred percent of your respect and if you see an issue you know we should not part of the problem and not even goes hostile people because we've all experienced it. There's sometimes hostile people at the front desk or whatever and again go back to that pressure. She like you have no idea what they dealt with that day. Okay how Kennedy part of your solution today because thinking about that in your head like what can I do to make this person's day that her and from there you know I I've never really had a bad experience after that once I get in with the staff and they know that I'm actually? There was her to make their day smoother And treat them well and set them up for success. Then you know it's usually actually a pretty fun at work so now turn turning to distributor relationships are. Are those a little bit different? How do you handle those Or direct for the most part So luckily I don't have to you know like I'm not part of a distributorship So Jean was my competition or military. That's a gift if the question is doesn't really apply. Then that's that's fine we can move ahead So what would be the one piece of advice? You'd give someone trying to break into the device sales industry and I think you you mentioned this a little bit earlier so I'm curious about the one piece that you would say. Focus know what you're going for and go after it You know don't take. Don't take the first job that has an opening just to get experience Sometimes you'll find yourself stuck with the wrong company for five years dot kind of attitude and that's really hard for people to hear because it's you know easy for you to say you know you've already found your job like I. I totally get it but like you're GonNa hate medical device if you don't focus on the passion that you have or that topic. That really really gets you excited. Just because he's settle for something different like. Oh well. I really wanted orthopedic trauma that I settled for. You know whatever. Obgyn ablation products or something and then all of a sudden five years later you're like Like medical device You know focus on what you want. You know like initially learn everything you about. Getting trauma talked orthopedic trauma wrapped. You know if you need to go to hospital hanging outside the waiting room you'll see rats all the time like talk to them. Hey question. This is awkward. I know I just met you but Connecticut question about your job You know like you can do that And I think to me. That's a little more effective to actually your your eventual happiness. Because you know you need to be happy. You're your worst day happy. You know just because you're new doesn't mean that you need to settle for something that you paid now. What does the future look like for device? Sales is a whole DC risk or do you see Opportunity Unity You know there's been. Some hospitals have attempted to go up with And I think it's been pretty quickly proven that we are absolutely critical to surgical sales. It's really important. We do Even if it's not always respected or not well understood. I think there's a lot of like education that needs to happen about what we actually do. and you know not all of us are making like you know seven figures Like that's not the case or all you know. We worked really hard and we. We had him court job I don't see medical device going down I just adapting and I think you're already seeing that you're seeing robotics you know happening in total joints and spine You know people are starting to adapt You know to the new billing practices where you know. It's definitely GonNa be easier fine and we're gonNA might be some you know things that might tweak a little bit in the future but I certainly don't see it going away You know I certainly wouldn't want it to. I think it's a really important important field. Expect change analyzed. The landscape take the opportunities. Stop being the Chesapeake. Become the player. It's your move Tony Robbins. All right. So we we've done all the heavy lifting now. It's time for the speed round. These do quick questions answers to wrap it up Do you consider success Related to lock or hard work. I'll say hard work. What career would you have chosen if not for device definitely orthopedic Trauma Surgeon? What is your favorite influence or book or Speaker for the industry? Oh there's this really great book about media it's not completely connected with great about trauma stewardship. it's actually about how to manage your Sort of emotions in stress while dealing with taking care of people in Trauma Yeah. Do you have a favorite medical facility that you've supported Highland Hospital in Oakland California hands down and finally what advice would give someone trying to get into the industry? Oh definitely work hard. Work Harder than anyone tells you. You have to read constantly and keep your Chin up all right. That'll that'll do it. Julia Greenspan's thank you for joining us today on the dock style. Podcast this is so much fun awesome. Thanks for listening to today's episode of the dock style reps podcast stay tuned for more episodes each month featuring how to get started in medical sales and tales from the. Or if you have questions or topics suggestions for the show please email INFO at dock style dot com. That's I N. F. O. T. O. C. S. D. A. L. DOT COM. Let us know what you think.

Oakland Orthopedic Trauma Julia Greenspan Orthopedic Trauma Consultant California sales representative Orthopedic Trauma Surgeon orthopedic Trauma Surgeon Lakers Jay Wizner nate Darling Um J. I Uc Davis Brian Murray Medical Education Lincoln Tony Robbins
Dorie Greenspan and Joy the Baker Make Some Magic

Radio Cherry Bombe

00:00 sec | 2 months ago

Dorie Greenspan and Joy the Baker Make Some Magic

"Hey everyone. Welcome to Radio Cherry bonds the podcast it's all about women and food. I'm your host carry diamond. Taking a little time off. Into the archives for our latest episode, we're bringing you a conversation with two of our favorite people Dorie Greenspan enjoy the baker. Joy. Interviewed, Doriot at last year's Cherry Bomb Jubilee Conference in Brooklyn and it was a lot of fun hearing and seeing them together. Speaking of Dory, we have some good news to share jewelry is a grandmother for the first time congratulations to Dory and her family baby Jemma, no doubt has an epic birthday cakes in her future. Thank you to the folks at Sonos for supporting today's show. Stay tuned to hear about my experience with the new Sonos move. What else we have a brand new section of Cherry, bomb dot com to check out it's called members corner and we're celebrating official members of the bomb squad. You can check out remember spotlights plus the products, services and cookbooks from our talented friends. Here's one I. Love La Vida Verde Plant based Mexican cooking with Authentic Flavor by Joslyn Ramirez. It's a great addition to your cookbook collection. If you'd like to become an official member of the bomb squad visit Cherry bomb. Dot Com to learn more. We'll be right back after this word from Sonos. have. You ever wished your home was wired with great sound I. Know I have and the folks had Sonos have made my wish come true. They recently sent me their Sonos Move Premium Portable Smart Speaker to road test and I'm an audio heaven with great sound in every single room I just pick up my Sonos move and go for my bathroom to my kitchen to my Home Office also known as my living room I can control everything I listen to write from the SONOS APP on my phone and Switzer my favorite new wave playlists to the podcast I listened to cook clean workout, or vigil. Probably more edging out than working out but whatever. I love the crystal clear sound and the rich base, and I also loved how easy my Sonos move was to set up I charged it downloaded the SONOS APP and set everything up in about five minutes for those of you with back yards or Patios or pools you can take your Sonos, move outside or invite me over and I'll bring mine. The long lasting battery provides up to eleven, hours of sound and bonus. The speaker is weather resistant. Wants to surround yourself with beautiful sound. Maybe it's time to make a move go to SONOS DOT COM to learn more. Now for Dory and joy introducing them as Christina. Co Founder and Co owner of macaroni Parlor and meow parlour in New York City. I'm so excited everyone came up to hear me talk. So my name's Christina, I have two main interests, cookies and cats. And I do both for a living I've bakeries called macaroni parlor. Then there's meow Parlor New York's first cat cafe. UNAI throw the cat equivalent of this jubilee. Call Jackson Galaxies Cat camp. I'm a lucky person. I have a wonderful family. I have amazing friends. I've great employees have helped over five hundred cats fine homes. However things weren't always this way. The loneliest period of my life was about ten years ago. I'm not sure what I was looking for when I moved to. New York but I knew I was afraid to stay in the suburbs and afraid that I would just settle. As a teenager I didn't know what saddling was I didn't know if it meant fulfilling the dreams of my immigrant parents by becoming a lawyer or it was choosing a path because it seemed easy. I don't know why but I had felt uneasy for a very long time. So I just kept busy. I graduated college in three and a half years then went back to school to get an associate's and then back to school to learn how to sew instead of pursuing higher education as just signing up for school for the sake of filling my time I took internships and eventually jobs and my dream companies to around one day and wonder why I didn't fit in. I'm introvert who felt so uncomfortable in a city of eight million people that I was thinking to myself. It was my mom who encouraged me to sign up for my first speaking in class. At that point, she knew I would never be a doctor or a lawyer and she knew what unhappiness look like she told me that when I was in preschool a weekly baking class news my favorite thing in the world she knew I was lonely than to partly because they didn't speak a lot partly because I didn't understand what people were saying and partly because they constantly felt like other. But food has no language. Barriers knows my favorite part of the school week. So as an adult I started to take baking classes. Over time late nights of anxiously waiting for the night to end and the next workday to begin turned into hours spent on the floor with my feet propped up against the oven watching breads, rise cookies, Caramel lies and magic happen. Finally something felt right. I'd spent. So long chasing a shadow, they never stopped to look at what was in front of me that in a city with thousands of restaurants, fast casual joints and cafes. The thing that made me happiest could be a career I went all in. I use a recession as an excuse to shrug and say, the dust job wasn't going anywhere anyway within a year. I was in pastry school met my now husband who's over there and we started macaroni parlor. But anyone who has opened a business knows the first few years are still lonely. You don't have time to socialize because you're understaffed. You're afraid to step out because replaced my burn down in fifteen minutes you're gone. And you go to sleep. So late that you wake up tired but that kind of loneliness didn't her purpose and it was tangible and things felt right. During this period I didn't have many friends, but I had the Internet. I used to write about my life about owning a business and the things I was learning. I didn't write for an audience I wrote because for the first time in a long time idol. And so I wrote into the abyss of the Internet. Much to my surprise. It spoke back. If you love New, York has a cat cafe. It only exists because my business partner sent me a fam- letter five years ago. And I was so touched that I hired her to work in my kitchen. Someone who works for me? Now read my blog when she was in. Pastry? School Last month someone from Australia message me to say that she thought me recently because you starting her own business. I haven't written for many years now because I'm not lonely. But there are still people out there looking. It made me realize that we're all looking for some connection. It's what makes us alive Dory understood this years ago before we had twitter and instagram that will food is a necessity. It's so much more than that. It's about people. It's about connecting with others about memories and experiences. Her cookbooks were the first. I had ever read that included stories about a recipe. Thirteen cookbooks in Dory's invited people all over the world in some of the greatest kitchens and more recently into our own kitchen. I I found founder through her world peace cookies name because they are good enough to bring world peace. Then, there was Tuesday's with Dory where people connected with each other from their own homes by blogging matter recipes, entire communities sprung out of doors writing and everyone who participated how their own story to tell she helped people create memories. Today we have so many more tools at our grass to allow sustain touch to meet new people to double tap or Swipe. Right. We can invite people to peek into our kitchens with photos taken out on a phone or quite literally like joy invite people to cook besides us in our actual kitchen joys. One of those people who figured out a way to combine storytelling food and the desire to connect both on and offscreen using these new tools. She gets it our it'd be surprised that's helping out someone who is lonely today. Food has stories to tell people to feed, and they'll look forward to listening to these women talk about their careers, the human element of food and how social media has impacted the landscape their first cookbook to now. Dory was one of the first people in the food industry. I men in a mentorship program and for years she sent me words of encouragement every few months I'll get an email from her about something. She saw that she wanted to share or to see if I was practicing self care. Or just to send some love. Doria was one of my first friends is an adult and she claimed she had nothing to teach me. She may not know this the much of what I've learned from her has shaped entirety of my career. So with that off my chest, I'm so happy for everyone here to listen to the Magic to come because I know it's going to be so beautiful in you. I'm going to start off my conversation with Dory today by telling her story. So I was saying in two thousand six, I was working as a baker in two bakeries. I wasn't joy the baker. So it was funny that I was a baker in two bakeries because I was an enthusiastic home. Baker. And I had finagled my way into to baking jobs because I realized that if you like to bake and you will get to work at three thirty in the morning you're hired you know. So I would get to work at two thirty in the morning and start baking. Because a lot of times, I would mess things up and have to throw them away. So then at three thirty, when real bakers came in I'd be like, Hey, guys just starting fresh. Just here ready. That happened a lot I ruined so much chocolate Mousse. Okay. I'll get to it. Wait matching you in this bakery like coming prepared with extra black bags to throw. Yes right and. After I get off of work I would go home on the way home. There was a bookstore and in the bookstore was your baking from my home to yours. And I couldn't afford to buy it but I would sit in the aisle and copy down your few recipes word for word. It's no problem. And then I would take the notebook to the bakery at two thirty in the morning and try some of your recipes and what was so that wasn't the one that didn't work was it. That you know they always. And what was so wonderful to me about that book is that your technique was so helpful but it was written from the perspective and from the heart of a home Baker, and so I could take it to this new job in a place where I was making friends with my fear and I got so much comfort and skill from it and I bought the book. I eventually could afford it. I had to save a, but but the mother, and me is thinking if only I had known this I would have since you the book. Story. Don't do that. People need to buy books. So. Yeah. So I wanted to tell you that story and then ask you thank you. Ask you how your kitchen journey started and what were the books that maybe you held close to your chest as you were embarking on your journey from. Home Baker to professional person Home Bega Home Baker. Yeah. No I I am a home bigger nitrous. I worked with Julia Domna answering your question but I will call okay. So I had the amazing amazing good fortune to work with Julia. Child in the nineties I wrote baking with. Julia. which was the book that accompanied her TV series and we would shoot every day and one day Julius said I want to play Hooky we'd play Hooky with me. and. So I had I still have it a little MIATA, which is like a car the size of a Jelly Bean holdaway. You have a Miata a red one. Red One. And it's it was it's a convertible but Julia. You couldn't you couldn't take the top down because her hair and Julia had sized twelve or thirteen feet, and so I kind of had to plead her to get her into the car but this isn't. But this isn't the story I want to tell you so. Julia said, let's play Hooky IRA her into the car. Her idea of Hooky is going to the supermarket. And so we're shopping around she's helping people choose a good Mellon and at some point she turned to me and sheep put her arm around me. She's six feet tall and she said, you know we make such a good team. And I was really touched and she said, we make a good team because we're just a couple of home bakers. And even after all the Julia had done and all the Chia taught all of us she really thought of herself as a home. Baker and I have never stopped thinking of myself. And so I burnt my parents kitchen down when I was twelve I wasn't GonNa do this very quickly I wasn't allowed to be I got married when I was nine, thousand, nine, hundred I'm still married to Michael Greenspan. And I learned to cook and Bake Because I. I learned to Cook Because I had to and I learned to bake because I really wanted to and I my book the book that is. Tattered and has spots I thought they were chocolate I have no idea what they are. They're all over the place. Is Me to hear she was my does it does anybody know mediator? So she was my hero everything. I made from her books worked her directions were so. When I started writing about food. I had made it in my my head she was. She taught me to Bait. What is your favorite thing of hers to Bake? Do you have a favorite? She had lemon cake in her first book that I made four. I made it every year for. Our son's teachers for their Christmas gift. I made it for pot lots. made it for everything and when her. The paperback version came out that recipe wasn't there and. One book later she wrote and she said, here's my revised version. She said I can't figure out why didn't work but people started writing to heard this was writing that in and it didn't work and she retest it and she claimed that it didn't work because there were demons. I live in New Orleans and Their demons, every demons and ghosts are everywhere. So I learned I learned to bake from meter from guests on the note when his first he's a he's now dead but I think is the father of modern pastry and when his book was first translated into English. That was that was my book. Do you write in your cookbooks? Do I write my own cookbook? No I know you. Yes. I do right in my cookbooks. Yeah. I make notes ice I had my first cookbook. I got when I was twelve years old. So like one of those paperback church cookbooks and in it every time I made a certain recipe I, write the date and right my thoughts about it. Opens journaling and my cookbook and I still have that book has lots of took. My Mother didn't make when my parents moved to Florida. My mother called me. She was so excited she to ovens and I said but you don't Cook or bake. She said Moore Storage. So I never had I I didn't have a cookbook until I got married and it was the New York Times Cookbook. That's it's my first bill. What was food like for your family when you were growing up so my father owned a supermarket. So there was plenty of food nobody ever wanted to cook it, and so there was a housekeeper in the housekeeper cooked I don't remember my mother cooking I have no memories of my mother's cooking or my father I have new favorite dishes from childhood. And I think. Now as I look back, it seemed perfectly normal to me I. Didn't know anything else but I realized this I think back on. How important it was for me to make a home when we got married and for me home meant being at the table having friends at the table I. Think it came from. A kind of. Deprivation in but it wasn't but I was happy I. You know I hear you but you want it's like a way of nurturing. You're building a way of nurturing your relationships and Romantic and friendship and everything I know that I. I'm sure I didn't know what I was doing but boy I'm glad I did. Because it is it is about having. Through food that we make relationships in that, we make memories that last in case you didn't hear me like singing happy birthday from the rooftops yesterday our son turn forty yesterday and it was birthday cake and it was looking at pictures of him blowing out. Candles. Three candles, twenty candles making the same cake that I've made for him for years and years and years. What is that cake So it's a chocolate cake tweaked it a little bit to make it a little less sweet. It's a dark chocolate cake with butter buttermilk cake in it. Scott Chocolate frosting and it can hold lots more than forty candles. I'll make your ready. Do you make. Okay. I have a lot of questions I want to ask you. But since we're talking about birthday cakes, do you make your own birthday cake? Do you. Yes. Is that because you don't trust anybody else. Who makes your birthday cake and what is it? So it's interesting, I was so set on it's not interesting. It's just it is. I was so set on having traditions. Because I didn't grow up with them. But I have no particular birthday king now now. I mean Joshua has his chocolate king. Okay I want to ask you about. Food writing because I think you are such a beautiful food writer. How did you transition from? Your work in the kitchen to writing about food. I started as a writer. So I went to Graduate School I'm all but dissertation for a doctorate in Gerontology the study of aging about which I can tell you more now than I could have one I was in graduate. School. And I worked in a research center for many years grading and I think and I was very lucky. I work for someone who really encouraged me right and who was a good editor and I. I never saw the separation between developing recipes and writing to me writing the recipe instructions was a form of creative writing. It was a way of. Imagining somebody in the kitchen imagining targeting to them it was a conversation for me. So it always felt like like grading it always felt like like I was talking to the person who would be following my recipes. So that was I don't I hadn't odd experience. Of Friend of mine. Akali friend was going to an award nomination and a book of mine. What was the baking? With Julia Book Was Had just been published in and she said to me. I hope you don't get nominated. And when I could catch my breath, I said, what are you saying and she said, well, all you did was write the book. And I've thought about that twenty some years ago and I thought I always think about that because I think about what is it about? Is a cookbook just the recipes. Is a cookbook a cookbook is something you right? Do we think about the importance of writing when it's instructional I think it is whole peace and it never occurred to me that being just the writer was anything less than being. So it's I. Think about this a lot. I think that I would to seek cookbooks thought about as. Books that well as cookbook pieces of writing, there is so much personality that goes into the even just the instructional part of a cookbook. It's unique to its writer. Yeah I. Mean You have a very particular way of raiding your recipes of it's it's it's our voice. And Yeah it's instruction and pep talk and like walking people back from the cliff you know it's like particularly with baking. Yeah. Thank you very much. So in working I would love to hear more about your time working with Julia and what it was like to work on that book. Soup I had met Julia in one, thousand, nine, hundred, ninety, one in my first book came out. It was my first time ever in front of people. I was the kid in the back of the room because I didn't want to raise my hand. But when my book was published, I had to actually get out into the world and like make sure somebody other than my mother who I knew would never use it with by it, and so I was invited to give a demo at Bu, and on that program was Julia and Jack Pippen and me. And Julia befriended me at that I mean she just she saw a lonely scared young woman and she. took me around and we kept in touch and when she was working on this book. She asked if I would write it but I had just started working for the food network and I was in show business and I said No. I said I'm not writing anymore I'm a producer. This is my new life, and after about six months I realized how much I missed writing. And I called and said WHO's writing your book and she said we haven't found anybody. I. Mean I almost missed that opportunity she is everything that you the Julia that you see on television is the Julia that you see. All the time shoves so smart. So funny. So curious about everything she on her computer broke and my my husband was up while we were shooting and she said Michael go upstairs see what you can do with it and he was petrified that he was GonNa ruin Julius computer but he went upstairs and he sees he turned around and Julius there and he said Julia I'm. Working on it all she said, no, no, no I want to see what you're doing. You're not always going to be here. I WANNA learn how to do this. She wanted to learn everything she called me one morning. Shit, you have a bread machine. I said, no, she said aren't you interested asset? Not really she said you should be I'm getting one today and you should too. She was really an intellectual. She really studied everything. She knew the history of thing she wanted to know everything when she was. She wanted to teach people her whole. If you've never read a book called if you're interested in Julia, if you've never read a book called. As always Julia, it's the letters that she wrote to Avis Devoto who helped her get mastering the order French. Cooking published. You get to see the way she worked the how important every detail was attorney has she wouldn't let anything go it had to be right. She kept polishing she kept working her work. Her Work Habits were extraordinary her commitment and I took away from working with her that kind of. Focus and how much you have to demand of yourself to do good work. Another through line with fat feels like constant curiosity only. which which is required to push yourself forward and better what are you curious about outside of food? What am I what are you serious about like? What do you owe like? I'm curious about of you. I want to know everything about like where you've got started you know what you WanNa do how you make things work I'm curious about people I'm in love with Paris I've been lucky enough to live there as a part timer for twenty years but every time I go like. I want to learn something new. I want to eventually no to cut appear amid shaped cheese properly. It's mostly people. It's people you what am I curious about? Oh, my gosh so much every year I. Try to take on a new curiosity because I don't know how long I'll get to be in the world. You know just like every year let's try a new thing. Last year was yoga this year I'm learning how to sew. And a two years ago was paper flowers. So. Just like dip into at I think that working outside of food also helps feed my creative work in. I think that. Breathing helps. Fuel. No there's there's there's no. There's something about just being out in the world being aware of what's around you. You find inspiration absolutely free world a quick non-related. Story. I did a book signing years and years ago with Pierce Air May. Paris pastry chef. We had written a book together and a woman came up and she had a little baby and peer smiling kind of chuck the baby under the Chin and said, what's the baby's name? And the mother said, Celeste and he said the beautiful name and then he took his notebook out and he wrote it down. And I said what are you gonNA do with it. He said I don't know it's just a very beautiful name. And about five years later, he created an entire pastry collection and called it Celeste. Oh. My God. So you never h- you know you never know where something is going to come from. Warren, idea will come from sometimes I see a color and it makes me think I can make a dessert from it. That's really beautiful can. Can I ask you about Paris can ask you about? I know you live in Paris also Connecticut also New York okay. Casual. Casual. What what parts of Paris do you find you bring back? American kitchens and what parts of like cooking in the states do you take back to Paris? So I probably do more cooking in Paris than I do anyplace else and I think it's because it's so easy to have people over. I don't know why nobody seems busy in Paris you. You you. You say hired like, know like going to the market tomorrow do you WanNa come for dinner and people say yes, in New York it's like. Could you go to the market in six weeks and invite. Takes too long so I. It's really ingredients that inspire me that make me think you know I've never know what I'm going to cook until I'm out there looking around I love to cook some American Food in France for my French friends so. I like to do like Burgers for a whole dinner and put out the put out different things that people can mix them. They never do the French would like my French friends would like me to either give them the food exactly as I want them to or they will just line it up. Very, very beautifully. So how often do you know some American things in Paris and have fun with that I used to bring back literally bring banking gradients don't need longer because everything is available but I sometimes feel the first week that I'm in Paris. I feel like my head is exploding I feel like there's something in the air that makes you have a trillion ideas. It's a spot for you. It's Yeah. That's exactly right that spot there is there was a connection is the first the first time I put my foot down on the sidewalk in Paris I thought. My mother had me in Brooklyn when she could have. Had me here. So rude. And Brooklyn was not hit groovy then. I feel that way about New Orleans and also in New Orleans people will come to dinner. They are busy they make time put did I want to ask you next? I want to talk about. I'll help you. Thank you. Tell me about your cooking school. I home. Right. Yeah. I do I. Have a I. have a cooking school. In New Orleans it's called the Bake House and it's a double shotgun. So half half of the House is my studio and it's a giant open kitchen where twelve people come. Three or four times a month to learn how to cook with me children ever children children. I. Don't know about them. I just. I knew about one. I knew about one don't know what they can do what they can't do. You know I just know adults. Yeah, but it's a really wonderful way to bring. You know my work my creative work on the Internet into real life, which is what I feel like we need. Real life is not way. I was GONNA say real life is not underrated, but it's real life is not overrated rate. Depends on what you're trying to say. We'll life is great. It's lonely out there in cyberspace. Sometimes I think we have kind of reached the peak of of what we can do only on the Internet. I sent but I really. Because I'm not a millennial because I'm not a native digital person because I started working. My husband just found my proposal for my my dissertation and it's on I missed that paper that kind of specialty onion skinny paper that I used to type my proposal on. But because because I'm essentially old. I'm excited by the Internet when when it arrived I couldn't believe they did there were all of these people out there that I could learn about the first time I saw somebody post a picture of something that they've made from one of my books. I started to cry I can call has been in. Because as a writer before the Internet you sat at home and you wrote and you didn't know who was out there. You just send your work out and every once in a while you would meet someone maybe who knew something about what you were doing you had no sense that. There was no way that the work came back to you that you could see the reaction and I have never stopped being excited about the Internet because I feel it does bring us together in a way where we can share what we know. We can learn from one another and I thought to see someone make that chocolate cake in two thousand and eight I was apart my blog I just started I was part of Tuesday's with Dory. You were Oh girl yes. Yeah and so every Tuesday, there were maybe fifty of us on the Internet. We would bake one of your recipes from your baking book and posted every Tuesday and it was such a beautiful way to have community on the Internet. I'm still in touch with a bunch of Tuesday's. So this was a group that was started by a woman whom I've never met in Pittsburgh she wrote to me and said I. Just got your cookbook I'd like to bake my way through two of my friends and we're going to blog just the three of us is that okay and there was this was two thousand seven and I didn't know what came in 'cause I didn't know what the Internet and I thought. This is really yeah this is great and I remember going to a conference a year later and having people say to me. Aren't you afraid it will hurt your book sales. Do you want your recipes all over the Internet. Do you want? And I thought Gee I do I do I want these people to be baking and and sharing what they know and? I think I was right. You were right I think I was right you're also very generous. No because I think it's just it doesn't. It's the opportunity. For peop-. Okay I'M GONNA. Do I have a second to preach? I'm just glad. Okay. Just tell you how I feel about baking case you don't know. I feel that baking his magic I feel that. This isn't. By felt it from the store that were transforming ingredients with our hands more. So than cooking I mean when you make a steak, you'd look at the state you cook it it looks like the state but with baking everything you do is a transformation magical changes with the same ingredients you can make a thousand things and you make with your hands and you make it to share with someone because even I don't make for myself it's. Meant to be shared and and there's a sense of satisfaction of having made something from start to finish yourself and so when I saw. People out in wherever Internet people are. You don't baking and writing about the fact that they hit made these recipes and talking about whether they serve them to their family or they took them to a potluck dinner or was part of church reception or a woman who sent me a picture that she hid made all of the the desserts for her brother's wedding. This was extraordinary. Share the magic with you. It's but I think this is what? Food. is about absolutely We only have a few minutes left and I really must get this piece of information from you. It's a question I like to ask. Anyone I can. So the question is what it's two parts. What is the best piece of advice you've ever received and what is the best piece of advice you've ever given? I think the best piece of advice air for gone and so fierce said it as well is the same piece of advice that I give okay and that's say yes even when you're terrified Always. worked. As a baker and you said, you. I worked as a Baker when I hadn't. got fired very quickly but. But I briefly worked is a bigger when I had no experience and all I had was the the desire. The I mean, this is what I wanted to do, and I mean even even going to that demo where I'm at Julia I was so scared but I knew I had to say yes and so yeah, it's the same piece of advice given an taken put. It's a making friends with the fear and pushing yourself and just so you don't feel alone I've also been fired. To Baker jobs. I was fired for. It took me it took me years to realize what how fabulous the reason that I was was at the caused whatever she said I was fired for was really a great thing I was fired for creative insubordination. Pretty. Great. It took me years. It took me your yeah. I changed the recipe and didn't tell anyone. You are perfect. Thank you Dorie. It's things. Sir. That's it. For today. Show I hope you enjoyed the conversation between Dory enjoy both women have amazing cookbooks. So be sure to check them out. Also. If you're looking for some grownup summer fun, check out camp joy on Joe the Baker Dot Com for activities, recipes and more. Thank you to Sonos move for supporting today show Radio Cherry Obama's edited by Cat Garelli. Our theme song is all fired up by the ban Challah. Radio Cherry bomb is produced by Cherry. Bomb media hanging there everybody, and thank you for listening. You're the bomb. I'll have what she's having. Hi My name is Rhonda Cameron and I'm the owner and creator of perfectly cordial here in Nashville. Tennessee. Do you want to know who I think is the bomb Kisha Hayes private chef and owner of sibbon. Bite here in Nashville. Tennessee. Kiesha is an apologetic advocate for women of color here in the Nashville Hospitality and beverage community, and that makes her the bomb.

Julia Dory Baker Paris Michael Greenspan Julia I macaroni Parlor Cherry Obama New York City writer New Orleans Brooklyn New York Home Office Julia Domna Radio Cherry New York New York Times Cookbook Christina Julia Book
Con Artists Bites: Suspicious Celebrity Deaths

Con Artists

00:00 sec | 8 months ago

Con Artists Bites: Suspicious Celebrity Deaths

"Welcome to podcast crime bites. We wanted to give our listeners. Some additional content to help him dive even deeper into the true crime world every week. In addition to your normal con artists episode. Were exploring the most fascinating. True crime themes covered across the podcast network. We've collected short clips from some of our most popular podcast originals to help us explore ideas like motivation method and madness and show how interconnected the true crime world really is. You can find these original episodes for free on spotify over every listen to podcasts. A list of episodes that we used. We'll be posted in the episode description. Today we're discussing cases of suspicious celebrity deaths with the intriguing or around Hollywood and society's obsession but celebrities it's no surprise that celebrity deaths are often mired in suspicion and conspiracy theories. But why are we so intrigued? By celebrity death and why is the intrigue amplified when the death is unexpected? David Kaplan former president of the American Counseling Association explains that Social Media is flooded with posts when a celebrity dies because of the bond. We feel watching them. Onscreen Kaplan says that when someone has followed a celebrities career for so long the feel intimately familiar with that person's life therefore it can feel as if a family member has died conversely psychologists Dr Simon more believes that we are intrigued by the details of celebrity deaths because we feel reassured by the fact that someone with more money power and fame is subject to the same rules of mortality that we are whether it be suicide drug addiction or murder it makes us feel more secure our modest apartments and office jobs because at least for not them but what a celebrity's death involves some suspicious element such as murder or conspiracy. We're all the more intrigued due to what criminologist got bond calls. Thrill seeking true. Crime gives the law abiding citizens a boost of adrenaline without ever leaving the couch or being in an actual dangerous situation. We'll start our exploration with a clip from podcast original conspiracy. Theories that discusses the media sensationalized death of actress and sex icon Marilyn Monroe nearly sixty years after her death. Monroe continues to be a pop culture icon. Monroe's private life was the subject of much Hollywood gossip in the nineteen fifties. She was involved in two highly publicized marriages and divorces and battled addiction and depression when she died of a prescription overdose in nineteen sixty two. It was ruled a suicide but many believed there was something more behind her cause of death on August fourth nineteen sixty two. Maryland spent most of the afternoon in a room after having an argument with her friend and publicist Pat Nukem in the morning nukem state at the House for the rest of the afternoon at about three or four. Pm Maryland's housekeeper. Eunice Murray called over her psychiatrist. Dr Ralph Greenspan. She claims she called him because she was troubled by Maryland's request for an oxygen treatment. Even though oxygen was a well-known hangover cure at the time Dr Green soon arrived around three or four Pat Nukem left and green spoke to Maryland in her room for about an hour. Greenspan left asking Murray to stay at Maryland's house overnight and keep an eye on her Maryland took a telephone into her room and spent the night making calls to friends and acquaintances every when she spoke to agree she didn't sound drugged or depressed and she gave no indication. She was considering suicide at around ten PM. She set the receiver down during a call and never turned around ten thirty. She made one last call to Peter. Lawford her friend and the husband of Patricia Kennedy during the call she apparently drifted into unconsciousness and stopped responding at either midnight or three. Am She changed her story? Later in the morning Eunice Murray woke up and noticed a light in Maryland's room was still on but she wasn't responding. She called Dr Green Son who broke in through the bedroom window and found Maryland lying dead clutching the telephone. Next to empty pill. Bottles of prescription sedative called NEMBUTAL and a nearly empty bottle of another sedative choral hydrate. Greenspan called Maryland's physician Dr Hyman Engelberg. Who came over and officially pronounced her dead at four. Twenty five am the police were called. Murray Greenspan and Engelberg initially told investigators Jack Clemens that Maryland's body had been found at midnight creating a four hour gap between discovering the body and calling the police that none of them could account for clemens. Was Relieve by Sergeant Marvin known who sealed up the house until the full investigative force arrived at about five thirty when the investigators questioned them later that morning. Murray Greenspan and Engelberg all changed their stories to say that Maryland's body hadn't been discovered until three a m inconsistencies in the forensic evidence and the witnesses stories. Baffled the police but it did appear to be a suicide so they held off on opening an official investigation until the coroner confirmed the cause of death. The coroner's investigation went on for less than a week during which they interviewed. None of the key witnesses except for Maryland psychoanalyst. Dr Ralph Greenspan after speaking with Dr Greenspan the deputy. Da Leading the investigation said. He was completely convinced that. Maryland's death was not a suicide. The medical examiner's performing the autopsy. Also believe the death couldn't have been a suicide but despite those findings the coroner officially ruled the cause of death as a probable suicide over the past five decades. Even more evidence has emerged to suggest that Marilyn's death was not in fact a suicide. There have been repeated calls to reopen the investigation into Maryland's death some as recent as two thousand two should not be a close case. It should be an open case by the. Da There's too much too. Many people too much overwhelming evidence that proves that this was not a suicide and I think that Maryland needs closure the difficulty with finding the truth. Is that nearly all the key? Figures involved in Maryland's death are now dead themselves and the statements they gave during their lifetimes were often contradictory. Many of the witnesses who have spoken out against the official story have been discredited as liars fame seekers and conspiracy theorists despite evidence that they might be telling the truth and many of the people who upheld the official story had their own hidden agendas. It was in their best interest to end the inquiry into Maryland's death as quickly as possible following that clip from conspiracy theories. Monroe's death sent shockwaves across the media. So much so that the Chicago Tribune reported an influx of calls from readers. Overloading their switchboards. Many conspiracy theories about Monroe's demise have offer a wide range of claims. Some believe that. Her doctors accidentally overdosed her others that Robert F Kennedy murdered her but ultimately Monroe's cause of death has remained a suicide a celebrity taking their own. Life is shocking enough but what happens when a famous person is the one suspected of taking the life of another and what if they're victim is also a celebrity coming up. We'll follow a case where the perpetrator is just as famous as their victim podcast listeners. We realized that there are a lot of parker shows to choose from each day and sometimes not enough time to sort through them. All in on new feed Ponca Staley we filter through all of your favorite podcast series to highlight the most timely and relevant episode premiering. Each day every Monday through Friday. Discover a new and captivating episode curated specifically for you. That's one new episode from our slate of content handpicked with you in mind. Time is precious. And we've got you covered. Follow Parkas daily free spotify or wherever? You get your podcasts. You can check out more podcast shows and full library of episodes in spotify by searching for podcast in the spotify search bar. All by going to spotify dot com slash podcast. Now back to the show. We've seen so far. How a celebrity death can spark widespread public interest? But what happens when both victim and their suspected killer are famous. That is the case our next clip from unsolved murders covering the death of Natalie. Wood November of Nineteen eighty-one would felt like she had it all. She was a movie Megastar. Married to actor Robert Wagner. She Wagner their friend. Christopher Walken and boat Captain Dentist Verne had taken a yacht out on a weekend trip to Catalina island but as they headed back to their boat after an alcohol fueled dinner on the island Wagner and would got into an argument Doug Bombard was both the owner of the restaurant and the Catalina harbourmaster he was also a friend of wooden wagner's concern for his friend safety. Doug escorted the trio back to their boat after some drunken stumbling. Doug manage to get the three actors on board but Robert and Natalie had both become visibly upset in an effort to avoid tension. Dennis Roberts Yacht. Captain brought the group to the Salon at the back of the ship and tried to continue the party. Doug rescinded the invitation and went home while Dennis made an effort to distract Robert but as Natalie continued to Converse with Christopher Roberts Jealousy overwhelmed him he confronted Christopher and asked him if he was trying to sleep with his wife while throwing a bottle of wine against the wall in a fit of rage. Christopher vehemently insisted that was not his goal and Natalie pulled Robert Away. Christopher left the room as Natalie and Robert began argue. The argument lasted for hours. Christopher went to bed while Dennis listen nervously on the other end of the boat after some time Dennis decided to check in on them and Robert turned his anger on him. Which according to Dennis was so that Dennis genuinely feared for his own life a frightened. Dennis went back upstairs and turn up the music in order to drown out the fight that was happening below him then around midnight. The fighting stopped and there was silence. Dennis waited ten minutes or so then. He went and checked on his employer. He found Robert. Sitting at the ladder to the dinghy curled up and crying. Dennis asked Robert What was wrong. Robert responded by telling him that Natalie had gone missing. Dennis found this odd for several reasons while the yacht was large. Wasn't large enough for someone to truly go missing on board and Dennis had just heard Natalie yelling at Robert only ten minutes before Dennis asked his boss if he should turn on the boats searchlight or call the coastguard. Perhaps Natalie had fallen overboard and they might need the Coast Guard's assistance however Robert insisted they neither turn on the searchlight nor call for help. He claimed they should just wait for Natalie as she was bound to return at any moment against his better instincts. Dennis listen to Robert. Robert was his employer and Natalie's husband. He thought that Robert. Probably new best as they waited. Robert cracked open a bottle of Scotch and the duo drank. They waited a full hour for Natalie to return but by one thirty. Am on November. Twenty ninth there was no sign of her at this point. Dennis insisted that they do something waiting. Wasn't helping them find Natalie. Robert agreed but he still refused to call the coastguard. Instead he called his friends in town on Catalina and asked if they had seen Natalie anywhere that night Roberts friends told him to sit tight while they searched the town Robert. Dennis waited once more but by three thirty. Am it became clear that Natalie was nowhere to be found? Finally Dennis Convinced Robert to call the coastguard. The coastguard was shocked to hear their story. And they ran into each other as they shipped off to find Natalie Wood. We're looking for the Natalie Wood. Do you think we'll be able to autograph? She's been missing for over three hours. It's freezing cold it's raining it's dark and they say she can't swim and lick. I doubt she'll be in any shape to give a God damn autograph. The coastguards scoured the waves for hours searching desperately for Natalie. The Bright iridescent glow of their searchlights was slowly replaced by the rising Sun Dud Bombard the Catalina Harbor Director who knew Natalie joined the search as soon as he heard that she was missing at seven forty four. Am On November Twenty Ninth. Nineteen eighty-one dogs boat found something near near the cliff. There's a dinghy on the Kelp. Slow the boat down from the looks of it that dinghy belongs to Wagner. I'm sure she's nearby but if she made it to land wouldn't someone found her by now. She didn't make it to land there bobbing on the waves. A Red Parka and dark brown hair in that clip from unsolved murders. After Natalie Wood's body was found. Her death was initially ruled as an accidental drowning. But the case was reopened in two thousand eleven after boat captain. Dennis diversion admitted. He lied to police about the night of the drowning different publicly stated that he believed woods husband Robert Wagner was responsible for her murder he told police that Wagner was reluctant to call the coastguard to investigate this led to the two thousand twelve amendment to woods cause of death from accidental drowning to drowning and other undetermined factors as of two thousand nineteen white has been named a person of interest by police but there have been no further changes to wood's death certificate and no arrests have been made while neither the deaths covered in our previous clips have been officially ruled murders in our final clip from not guilty actor. Robert Blake was accused of killing his wife. Bonny Lee Bakley on May fourth. Two thousand one Robert and Bonnie had just finished eating dinner when Bonnie was shot sitting in the car outside of the restaurant. Detective Ronald Ito arrived at the scene and Robert Blake agreed to accompany Ito back to the police station porn interview. Ito asked Blake to walk him through the events of the evening they went to dinner at Vitelle owes. Blake reported that before they left the house. Bonnie asked him to bring along one of his guns. She thought someone was stalking her and felt safer with his thirty eight nearby. They parked on the street a little over a block away from the restaurant. The hostess sat them in Blake's customary corner booth around eight thirty PM AFTER THEY ATE. Blake paid the bill. His receipt timestamped nine twenty three pm but when they reached his car. He realized that he'd left his jacket and the thirty eight caliber handgun in the booth. He left Bonnie to wait while he went back to the restaurant to retrieve them while there he asked for two glasses of water and drank them both when he got back to the car at nine thirty eight. Pm HE FOUND. Bonnie had been shot twice. She was barely alive. Frantic Blake ran to the nearest house and banged on the door. He had to try more than one house before someone would answer when they did. He insisted that they call nine. One one police registered the call at nine forty PM. Blake then ran back to the television to see if there was a doctor present. Terry Lorenzo customer data. A nurse jumped up from her dinner to help but by the time they reached Bonnie she was bleeding from her eyes nose and mouth custom. Yadda couldn't do anything then. The lights and sirens arrived by the time. The ambulance reached the hospital at ten fifteen pm. Bonnie was dead on arrival. Blake then reiterated to Ito that Bonnie had pissed off a lot of people over the years with her letter scheme. She had plenty of reasons to think someone was following her. This was probably the work of some guy she bilked revenge. Ito wrote down the theory but also noted how quickly blake turned from visceral grief moaning on the sidewalk to trash talking the deceased mother of his child so far it appeared to detective. Ito that Robert Blake had plenty of motive to kill his wife and ample opportunity he also had the means. Blake owned several guns in addition to the thirty eight caliber. But the forensics team found no significant gun powder residue when they tested his hands and no blood on his clothes. Bonnie was shot at point blank range. It was unlikely that the shooter could have walked away. Free of any spider frustrated. Ito Sent Blake home. He knew he was missing something. He needed more information. Following the events of that clip from not guilty to men came forward and told police that Robert Blanket offer them money to kill Bakley in the months before her death blake was subsequently arrested and charged with murder ultimately. He was found not guilty of Bakley's murder but after the criminal trial basically surviving family members sued. Robert Blake in civil court. He was found liable for the wrongful death of his life and ordered to pay damages with the endless conspiracy theories and vast media coverage of celebrity death all the clips. Today highlight the intersection between our plastination with true crime. And our obsession with Hollywood and as Dr Simon Moore said it's perfectly normal to search for the sort of details about celebrities passing because it serves the psychological function of boosting our self esteem even decades after they were laid to rest. These celebrities have television episodes movies and podcasts covering their deaths and the mysterious circumstances around them. Marilyn Monroe continues to be an enduring figure of Hollywood. Today she even has an official twitter handle that shares photos and quotes from her life though. Robert Blake's film and television career never recovered after his acquittal he has been able to move out emotionally in two thousand seventeen. He announced he was engaged to his third wife. Sixteen years after Bonnie's death. Thanks for tuning into podcast. Cry Bites we hope. You enjoyed this episode on suspicious celebrity deaths. We'll be back next week with a brand new episode under Torian. Assassins if you'd like to listen to the episodes we discussed today in full simply search for a podcast original shows conspiracy theories unsolved murders or not guilty on spotify. That only spotify already have all your favorite music but now spotify is making it easy for you to enjoy. All of your favorite podcasts originals. For free from your phone desktop or smart speaker and don't forget to follow us on facebook and Instagram at podcast and twitter. At podcast at work. I'll see you next time.

Natalie Wood Robert Blake Dennis Roberts Robert Maryland Marilyn Monroe Robert Wagner spotify Bonnie Ronald Ito murder official Murray Greenspan Dr Ralph Greenspan Robert F Kennedy Bonny Lee Bakley Hollywood Dr Hyman Engelberg American Counseling Associatio
Female Criminals Bites: Suspicious Celebrity Deaths

Female Criminals

00:00 sec | 8 months ago

Female Criminals Bites: Suspicious Celebrity Deaths

"Welcome to podcast crime rates. We wanted to give our listeners. Some additional content to help him dive even deeper into the true crime world every week. In addition to your normal email criminals episode were exploring the most fascinating true crime themes covered across the podcast network. We've collected short clips from some of our most popular podcast originals to help us explore ideas like motivation method and madness and show how interconnected the true crime world really is. You can find these original episodes for free on spotify over every listen to podcasts. A list of episodes that we used. We'll be posted in the episode description. Today we're discussing cases of suspicious celebrity deaths with the intriguing or around Hollywood and society's obsession but celebrities it's no surprise that celebrity deaths are often mired in suspicion and conspiracy theories. But why are we so intrigued? By celebrity death and why is the intrigue amplified when the death is unexpected? David Kaplan former president of the American Counseling Association explains that Social Media is flooded with posts when a celebrity dies because of the bond. We feel watching them. Onscreen Kaplan says that when someone has followed a celebrities career for so long the feel intimately familiar with that person's life therefore it can feel as if a family member has died conversely psychologists Dr Simon more believes that we are intrigued by the details of celebrity deaths because we feel reassured by the fact that someone with more money power and fame is subject to the same rules of mortality that we are whether it be suicide drug addiction or murder it makes us feel more secure our modest apartments and office jobs because at least for not them but what a celebrity's death involves some suspicious element such as murder or conspiracy. We're all the more intrigued due to what criminologist got bond calls. Thrill seeking true. Crime gives the law abiding citizens a boost of adrenaline without ever leaving the couch or being in an actual dangerous situation. We'll start our exploration with a clip from podcast original conspiracy. Theories that discusses the media sensationalized death of actress and sex icon Marilyn Monroe nearly sixty years after her death. Monroe continues to be a pop culture icon. Monroe's private life was the subject of much Hollywood gossip in the nineteen fifties. She was involved in two highly publicized marriages and divorces and battled addiction and depression when she died of a prescription overdose in nineteen sixty two. It was ruled a suicide but many believed there was something more behind her cause of death on August fourth nineteen sixty two. Maryland spent most of the afternoon in a room after having an argument with her friend and publicist Pat Nukem in the morning nukem state at the House for the rest of the afternoon at about three or four. Pm Maryland's housekeeper. Eunice Murray called over her psychiatrist. Dr Ralph Greenspan. She claims she called him because she was troubled by Maryland's request for an oxygen treatment. Even though oxygen was a well-known hangover cure at the time Dr Green soon arrived around three or four Pat Nukem left and green spoke to Maryland in her room for about an hour. Greenspan left asking Murray to stay at Maryland's house overnight and keep an eye on her Maryland took a telephone into her room and spent the night making calls to friends and acquaintances every when she spoke to agree she didn't sound drugged or depressed and she gave no indication. She was considering suicide at around ten PM. She set the receiver down during a call and never turned around ten thirty. She made one last call to Peter. Lawford her friend and the husband of Patricia Kennedy during the call she apparently drifted into unconsciousness and stopped responding at either midnight or three. Am She changed her story? Later in the morning Eunice Murray woke up and noticed a light in Maryland's room was still on but she wasn't responding. She called Dr Green Son who broke in through the bedroom window and found Maryland lying dead clutching the telephone. Next to empty pill. Bottles of prescription sedative called NEMBUTAL and a nearly empty bottle of another sedative choral hydrate. Greenspan called Maryland's physician Dr Hyman Engelberg. Who came over and officially pronounced her dead at four. Twenty five am the police were called. Murray Greenspan and Engelberg initially told investigators Jack Clemens that Maryland's body had been found at midnight creating a four hour gap between discovering the body and calling the police that none of them could account for clemens. Was Relieve by Sergeant Marvin known who sealed up the house until the full investigative force arrived at about five thirty when the investigators questioned them later that morning. Murray Greenspan and Engelberg all changed their stories to say that Maryland's body hadn't been discovered until three a m inconsistencies in the forensic evidence and the witnesses stories. Baffled the police but it did appear to be a suicide so they held off on opening an official investigation until the coroner confirmed the cause of death. The coroner's investigation went on for less than a week during which they interviewed. None of the key witnesses except for Maryland psychoanalyst. Dr Ralph Greenspan after speaking with Dr Greenspan the deputy. Da Leading the investigation said. He was completely convinced that. Maryland's death was not a suicide. The medical examiner's performing the autopsy. Also believe the death couldn't have been a suicide but despite those findings the coroner officially ruled the cause of death as a probable suicide over the past five decades. Even more evidence has emerged to suggest that Marilyn's death was not in fact a suicide. There have been repeated calls to reopen the investigation into Maryland's death some as recent as two thousand two should not be a close case. It should be an open case by the. Da There's too much too. Many people too much overwhelming evidence that proves that this was not a suicide and I think that Maryland needs closure the difficulty with finding the truth. Is that nearly all the key? Figures involved in Maryland's death are now dead themselves and the statements they gave during their lifetimes were often contradictory. Many of the witnesses who have spoken out against the official story have been discredited as liars fame seekers and conspiracy theorists despite evidence that they might be telling the truth and many of the people who upheld the official story had their own hidden agendas. It was in their best interest to end the inquiry into Maryland's death as quickly as possible following that clip from conspiracy theories. Monroe's death sent shockwaves across the media. So much so that the Chicago Tribune reported an influx of calls from readers. Overloading their switchboards. Many conspiracy theories about Monroe's demise have offer a wide range of claims. Some believe that. Her doctors accidentally overdosed her others that Robert F Kennedy murdered her but ultimately Monroe's cause of death has remained a suicide a celebrity taking their own. Life is shocking enough but what happens when a famous person is the one suspected of taking the life of another and what if they're victim is also a celebrity coming up. We'll follow a case where the perpetrator is just as famous as their victim podcast listeners. We realized that there are a lot of podcast shows to choose from each day and sometimes not enough time to sort through them all in our new feed podcast daily we filter through your favorite podcast series to highlight the most timely and relevant episode premiering. Each day every Monday through Friday. Discover a new and captivating episode curated specifically for you. That's one new episode from our slate of content handpicked with you in mind. Time is precious. And we've got you covered follow. Park cast daily free on spotify. Or wherever you get your podcasts you can check out more podcast shows and full library of episodes in spotify by searching for podcast in the spotify search or by going to spotify dot com slash. Podcast now back to the show. We've seen so far how celebrities death can spark widespread public interest. But what happens when both victim and their suspected killer are famous. That is the case that our next clip from unsolved murders covering the death of Natalie. Wood in November of Nineteen eighty-one would felt like she had it all. She was a movie. Megastar married to actor Robert Wagner. She Wagner their friend. Christopher walken and boat Captain Dennis Verne had taken a yacht out on a weekend trip to Catalina island but as they headed back to their boat after an alcohol fueled dinner on the island Wagner and would got into an argument Doug Bombard was both the owner of the restaurant and the Catalina harbourmaster. He was also a friend of wooden. Wagner's concern for his friends safety. Doug escorted the trio back to their boat after some drunken stumbling. Doug managed to get the three actors on board but Robert and Natalie had both become visibly upset in an effort to avoid tension. Dennis Roberts Yacht. Captain brought the group to the Salon at the back of the ship and tried to continue the party. Doug rescinded the invitation and went home while Dennis made an effort to distract Robert but as Natalie continued to Converse with Christopher Roberts Jealousy overwhelmed him he confronted Christopher and asked him if he was trying to sleep with his wife while throwing a bottle of wine against the wall in a fit of rage. Christopher vehemently insisted that was not his goal in Natalie pulled Robert Away. Christopher left the room as Natalie and Robert began to argue. The argument lasted for hours. Christopher went to bed while Dennis listen nervously on the other end of the boat after some time Dennis decided to check in on them and Robert turned his anger on him which according to Dennis was so intense that Dennis genuinely feared for his own life. Frightened. Dennis went back up stairs and turn up the music in order to drown out the fight that was happening below him then around midnight. The fighting stopped and there was silence. Dennis waited ten minutes or so then. He went and checked on his employer. He found Robert. Sitting at the ladder to the dinghy curled up and crying. Dennis asked Robert What was wrong. Robert responded by telling him that Natalie had gone missing. Dennis found this odd for several reasons while the yacht was large. It wasn't large enough for so into truly go missing on board and Dennis had just heard Natalie yelling at Robert only ten minutes before. Dennis asked his boss if he should turn on the boat. Searchlight or call the coastguard. Perhaps Natalie had fallen overboard and they might need the Coast Guard's assistance however Robert insisted they neither turn on the searchlight nor call for help. He claimed they should just wait for Natalie as she was bound to return at any moment against his better instincts. Dennis listen to Robert. Robert was his employer and Natalie's husband. He thought that Robert. Probably new best as they waited. Robert cracked open a bottle of Scotch and the duo drank. They waited a full hour for Natalie to return but by one thirty. Am on November. Twenty ninth there was no sign of her at this point. Dennis insisted that they do something waiting. Wasn't helping them find Natalie. Robert agreed but he still refused to call the coastguard. Instead he called his friends in town on Catalina and asked if they had seen Natalie anywhere that night Roberts friends told him to sit tight while they searched the town. Robert and Dennis waited once more but by three thirty am. It became clear that Natalie was nowhere to be found. Finally Dennis Convinced Robert to call the coastguard. The coastguard was shocked to hear their story. And they rant to each other as they shipped off to find Natalie Wood. We're looking for the Natalie Wood. Do you think we'll be able to get her autograph? She's been missing for over three hours. It's freezing cold it's raining it's dark and they say she can't swim and lick. I doubt she'll be any shape to give a God damn autograph. The coastguards scoured the ways for hours searching desperately for Natalie. The Bright iridescent glow of their searchlights was slowly replaced by the rising Sun Doug Bombard the Catalina Harbor Director who knew Natalie joined search as soon as. He heard that she was missing at seven. Forty Four A. M. on November. Twenty Ninth Nineteen eighty-one. Doug's boat found something near near the cliff there. There's a dinghy on the Kelp. Slow the boat down from the looks of it that dinghy belongs to Wagner. I'm sure she's nearby but if she made it to land wouldn't someone found her by now. She didn't make it to land there bobbing on the waves. A Red Parka and dark brown hair in that clip from unsolved murders. After Natalie Wood's body was found. Her death was initially ruled as an accidental drowning. But the case was reopened in two thousand eleven after boat captain. Dennis d'auvergne admitted he lied to police. About the night of the drowning different publicly stated that he believed woods husband Robert Wagner was responsible for her murder he told police that Wagner was reluctant to call the coastguard to investigate. This led to the two thousand twelve amendment to woods cause of death from accidental drowning to drowning and other undetermined factors as of two thousand nineteen. Wichner has been named a person of interest by police but there have been no further changes to wood's death certificate and no arrests have been made while neither of the deaths covered in our previous clips have been officially ruled murders in our final clip from not guilty actor. Robert Blake was accused of killing his wife. Bonny Lee Bakley on May fourth. Two thousand one Robert and Bonnie had just finished eating dinner when Bonnie was shot sitting in the car outside of the restaurant detective. Ronald Ito arrived at the scene and Robert. Blake agreed to accompany Ito back to the police station for an interview. Edo asked Blake to walk him through the events of the evening they went to dinner at Vitelle owes. Blake reported that before they left the house. Bonnie asked him to bring along one of his guns. She thought someone was stalking her and felt safer with his thirty eight nearby. They parked on the street a little over a block away from the restaurant. The hostess sat them in Blake's customary corner booth around eight thirty PM AFTER THEY ATE. Blake paid the bill. His receipt timestamped nine twenty three pm but when they reached his car he realized that he left his jacket and the thirty eight caliber handgun in the booth. He left Bonnie to wait while he went back to the restaurant to retrieve them while there he asked for two glasses of water and drank them both when he got back to the car at nine thirty eight. Pm HE FOUND. Bonnie had been shot twice. She was barely alive. Frantic Blake ran to the nearest house and banged on the door. He had to try more than one house before someone would answer when they did. He insisted that they call nine. One one police registered the call at nine forty PM. Blake then ran back to vetoes to see if there was a doctor. Present Terry Lorenzo Kostunica. A nurse jumped up from her dinner to help but by the time they reached Bonnie she was bleeding from her eyes nose and mouth custom. Yadda couldn't do anything then. The lights and sirens arrived by the time. The ambulance reached the hospital at ten fifteen pm. Bonnie was dead on arrival. Blake then reiterated to Ito that Bonnie had pissed off a lot of people over the years with her letter scheme. She had plenty of reasons to think someone was following her. This was probably the work of some guy she bilked revenge. Ito wrote down the theory but also noted how quickly blake turned from visceral grief moaning on the sidewalk to trash talking the deceased mother of his child so far it appeared to detective. Ito that Robert Blake had plenty of motive to kill his wife and ample opportunity he also had the means. Blake owned several guns in addition to the thirty eight caliber. But the forensics team found no significant gun powder residue when they tested his hands and no blood on his clothes. Bonnie was shot at point blank range. It was unlikely that the shooter could've walked away. Free of any spider frustrated Ito sent Blake home. He knew he was missing something he needed. More information following the events of that clip from not guilty to men came forward and told police that Robert Blanket offer them money to kill Bakley in the months before her death lake was subsequently arrested and charged with murder ultimately he was found not guilty of Bakley's murder but after the criminal trial basically surviving family members sued. Robert Blake in civil court. He was found liable for the wrongful death of his wife and ordered to pay damages with the endless conspiracy theories and vast media coverage of celebrity death all the clips. Today highlight the intersection between our plastination with true crime. And our obsession with Hollywood and as Dr Simon Moore said it's perfectly normal to search for the sort of details about a celebrities passing because it serves the psychological function of boosting our self esteem even decades after they were laid to rest. These celebrities have television episodes movies and podcasts covering their deaths and the mysterious circumstances around them. Marilyn Monroe continues to be an enduring figure of Hollywood today. She even has an official twitter handle that shares photos and quotes for life. Though Robert Blake's film and television career never recovered after his acquittal he has been able to move out emotionally in two thousand seventeen. He announced he was engaged to his third wife. Sixteen years after Bonnie's death thanks for tuning into Parkhouse Cry Bites. We hope you enjoyed this episode on suspicious celebrity deaths. We'll be back next week with a brand new episode under Torius. Assassins if you'd like to listen to the episodes we discussed today in full simply search for a podcast original shows conspiracy theories unsolved murders or not guilty on spotify. That only to spotify already. Have all your favorite music. But now spotify is making it easy for you to enjoy. All of your favorite podcasts originals. For free from your phone desktop or smart speaker and don't forget to follow us on facebook and Instagram at podcast and twitter at podcast network. I'll see you next time.

Natalie Wood Robert Blake Robert Captain Dennis Verne Maryland Marilyn Monroe Robert Wagner spotify Bonnie murder Ronald Ito Murray Greenspan Dr Ralph Greenspan Doug Bombard Robert F Kennedy Dennis Roberts Hollywood official Bonny Lee Bakley
Why we ignore obvious problems -- and how to act on them | Michele Wucker

TED Talks Daily

10:19 min | 1 year ago

Why we ignore obvious problems -- and how to act on them | Michele Wucker

"This Ted talk features author and policy analyst Michelle Walker recorded live at Ted salon. Imagine if twenty nineteen. So what if there were a highly obvious problem right in front of you one that everyone was talking about one that affected you directly? Would you do everything within your power to fix things before they got worse? Don't be. So sure we are all much more likely than any of us would like to admit to miss what's right in front of our eyes. And in fact, we're sometimes most likely to turn away from things precisely because of the threat that they represent to us in business life in the world. So I want to give you an example from my world economic policy. So when Alan Greenspan was head of the Federal Reserve his entire job was to watch out for problems in the US economy and to make sure that they didn't spin out of control. So after two thousand six when real estate prices, Pete, more and more and more respected leaders and institutions started to sound the alarm bells about risky lending and dangerous market bubbles, as you know in two thousand eight it all came tumbling down banks collapsed. Global stock markets lost nearly half their value. Millions and millions of people lost their homes to foreclosure, and at the bottom nearly one in ten Americans was out of work. So after things calmed down a little bit Greenspan, and many others came out with a postmortem and said, nobody could have predicted that crisis. They called it. A black swan something that was unimaginable unforeseeable and completely improbable. A total surprise except. Wasn't always such a surprise, for example, my Manhattan apartment nearly doubled in value in less than four years. I saw the writing on the wall, and I sold it. So a lot of other people also saw the warning spoke out publicly. And they were ignored. So we didn't know exactly what the crisis was going to look like nothing exact parameters, but we could all tell that the thing coming at us was as dangerous visible and predictable as a giant gray rhino charging right at us. The blacks one lends itself to the idea that we don't have power over our futures. And unfortunately, the less control that we think we have the more likely we are to downplay it or ignore it entirely. And this dangerous dynamic masks, another problem that most of the problems that we're facing are so probable and obvious there things that we can see, but we still don't do anything about. So I created the gray rhino metaphor to meet what I felt was an urgent need to help us to take a fresh look with the same passion that people had for the black swan. But this time for the things that were highly obvious highly probable, but still neglected. Those are the gray rhinos lets you start looking for gray rhinos. You see them in the headlines every day. And so what I see in the headlines is another big gray rhino in a new highly probable financial crisis. And I wonder if we've learned anything in the last ten years. So if you listen to Washington or Wall Street, you could almost be forgiven for thinking that only smooth sailing late ahead, but in China where I spend a lot of time. The conversation is totally different. The entire economic team all the way up to president Xi Jinping himself talk very specifically and clearly about financial risks as gray rhinos and how they contain them now to be sure China, and the US have very very different systems of government, which affects what they're able to do or not and many of the root causes for their economic problems are totally different. But it's no secret that both countries have problems with debt with inequality and with economic productivity. So how can the conversations are so different? You could actually ask this question. Not just about countries. But about just about everyone. The the auto companies that puts safety first and the ones that don't bother to recall their shoddy cars until after people die. The grandparents who in preparing for the inevitable inevitable. The ones who have the eulogy written. The menu for the funeral lunch. My grandparents did. And everything, but the final date chiseled into the grains, brave stone. But then you have grandparents on the other side who don't put their final affairs in order. Don't get rid of all the junk. They've been hoarding for decades and decades and leave their kids to deal with it. So what makes the difference between one side and the other? Why do some people see things and deal with them? And the other one's just look away. So the first one has to do with culture society, the people around you if you think that someone around you is going to help pick you up when you fall you're much more likely to see danger as being smaller and that allows us to take good chances. Not trust the bad ones, for example, like risking criticism. When you talk about the danger that nobody wants to talk about or taking the opportunities that are kind of scary. So in their own way are gray rhinos. So the US has a very individualist culture. Go it alone and paradoxically this makes many Americans much less open to change and taking good risks in China. By contrast, people believe that the government is going to keep problems from happening, which might not always be what happens, but people believe it. They believe they can rely on their families. So that makes them more likely to sake certain risks. Like buying Beijing real estate, or like being more open about the fact that they need to change direction. And in fact, the pace of change in China is absolutely amazing. Second of all. How much do you know about situation? How much are you willing to learn? And are you willing to see things even when it's not what you want? So many of us are so unlikely to pay attention to the things that we just wanna blackout. We don't like them we pay attention to what we want to see what we like what we agree with. But we have the opportunity and the ability to correct those blind spots. I spent a lot of time talking with people of all walks of life about the gray rhinos in their life and their attitudes. And you might think that the people who are more afraid of risks whom are sensitive to them would be the ones who would be less open to change. But the opposite is actually true. I've found that the people who are willing to recognize the problems around them and make plans are the ones who are able to tolerate more risk. Good risk and deal with the bad with risk. And it's because as we seek information we increase our power. Our to do something about the things that were afraid of. And that brings me to my third point how much control do you feel that you have over the gray rhinos in your life? One of the reasons we don't act is that we often feel to helpless think of climate change. It can feel so big that not a single one of us could make a difference. So some people go about life denying it. Other people blame everyone except themselves like my friend who says he's not ever going to give up his SUV until they stopped building coal plants in China. But we really we have an opportunity to change. No two of us are the same. Every single one of us has the opportunity to change our attitudes our own and those of people around us. So today, I want to invite all of you to join me, and helping to spark an open and honest conversation with the people around you about the gray rhinos in our world. And be brutally honest about how well we're dealing with them. I hear so many times in the states. We'll of course, we should deal with obvious problems. But if you don't see what's in front of you. You're either dumb or ignorant. That's what they say. And I could not disagree more. If you don't see what's in front of you. You're not dumb. You're not ignorant your human. And once we all recognize that shared vulnerability that gives us the power to open our eyes to see what's in front of us and to act before we get trampled. For more TED talks to Ted dot com. Ex.

China US Alan Greenspan Ted Ted salon Federal Reserve Michelle Walker policy analyst Pete Manhattan Beijing Xi Jinping Washington president Ted dot
Crimes of Passion Bites: Suspicious Celebrity Deaths

Crimes of Passion

00:00 sec | 8 months ago

Crimes of Passion Bites: Suspicious Celebrity Deaths

"This episode is brought to you by the completely reimagined twenty twenty four to escape with Ford co-pilot three sixty a suite of advanced standard driver assist technologies. It's built to help you outsmart some of the obstacles. You'll encounter out on the road. They're smart and then they're street-smart the completely reimagined twenty twenty Ford Escape. Welcome to park cast crime bites. We wanted to give our listeners. Some additional content to help him dive even deeper into the true crime world every week. In addition to your normal crimes of passion episode. We're exploring the most fascinating true crime themes come across the podcast network. We've collected short clips from some of our most popular podcast originals to help us explore ideas like motivation method and madness and show how interconnected the true crime world really is. You can find these original episodes for free on spotify or wherever you listen to podcast a list of episodes that we used. We'll be posted in the episode description. Today we're discussing cases of suspicious celebrity deaths with the intriguing or around Hollywood and society's obsession with celebrities. It's no surprise that celebrity deaths are often mired in suspicion and conspiracy theories. But why are we so intrigued? By celebrity death and why is the intrigue amplified when the death is unexpected? David Kaplan former president of the American Counseling Association explains that Social Media is flooded with posts. A celebrity dies because of the bond. We feel watching them. Onscreen Kaplan says that when someone has followed a celebrities career for so long they feel intimately familiar with that person's life therefore it can feel as if a family member has died conversely psychologist. Dr Simon more believes that. We are intrigued by the details of celebrity deaths because we feel reassured by the fact that someone with more money power and fame is subject to the same rules of mortality that we are whether it be suicide drug addiction or murder it makes us feel more secure our modest departments in office jobs because at least we're not them but what a celebrity's death involves some suspicious element such as murder or conspiracy. We're all the more intrigued. Due to what criminologists Scott Bond Calls? Thrill seeking true. Crime gives the law abiding citizens a boost of adrenaline without ever leaving the couch or being an actual dangerous situation. We'll start our exploration with a clip from podcast original conspiracy. Theories that discusses the media sensationalized death of actress and sex icon Marilyn Monroe nearly sixty years after her death. Monroe continues to be a pop culture icon. Monroe's private life was the subject of much Hollywood gossip in the nineteen fifties. She was involved in two highly publicized marriages divorces and battled addiction and depression when she died of prescription in nineteen sixty two. It was ruled a suicide but many believe there was something more behind her cause of death on August fourth nineteen sixty two. Maryland spent most of the afternoon in a room after having an argument with her friend and publicist Pat Nukem in the morning nukem state at the House for the rest of the afternoon at about three or four. Pm Maryland's housekeeper. Eunice Murray called over her psychiatrist. Dr Ralph Greenspan. She claims she called him because she was troubled. By Maryland's request an oxygen treatment even though oxygen was a well-known hangover cure at the time. Dr Green soon arrived around three or four. Pat Nukem left in Greenspan spoke to Maryland in a room for about an hour. Greenspan left asking Murray to stay at Maryland's house overnight and keep an eye on her Maryland took telephone into her room and spent the night making calls to friends and acquaintances everyone. She spoke to agreed. She didn't sound drugged or depressed and she gave no indication. She was considering suicide at around ten PM. She set the receiver down during a call and never returned around ten thirty. She made one last call to Peter. Lawford her friend and the husband of Patricia Kennedy during the call she apparently drifted into unconsciousness and stopped responding at either midnight or three am. She changed her story later. In the morning Eunice Murray woke up and noticed a light in Maryland's room was still on but she wasn't responding fishy called Dr Green Son who broke in through the bedroom window and found Maryland lying dead clutching the telephone next to empty pill bottles of prescription sedative called NEMBUTAL and nearly empty bottle of another sedative. Choral Hydrate Greenspan called Maryland's physician Dr Hyman Engelberg. Who came over and officially pronounced her dead at four twenty five. Am The police were called? Murray Greenspan and Engelberg initially told investigators Jack Clemens that Maryland's body had been found at midnight creating a four hour gap between discovering the body and calling the police that none of them could account for clemens was relieved by Sergeant Marvin known who sealed up the house until the full investigative force arrived at about five thirty when the investigators questioned them later that morning. Murray Greenspan and Engelberg all change their stories to say that Maryland's body hadn't been discovered until three a m inconsistencies in the forensic evidence and the witnesses stories. Baffled the police but it did appear to be a suicide so they held off on opening an official investigation until the coroner confirmed the cause of death. The coroner's went on for less than a week during which they interviewed. None of the key witnesses except for Maryland psychoanalyst. Dr Ralph Greenspan after speaking with Dr Greenspan the deputy. Da Leading the investigation said. He was completely convinced that. Maryland's death was not a suicide. The medical examiner's performing the autopsy also believed the death couldn't have been a suicide but despite those findings the coroner officially ruled the cause of death as a probable suicide over the past five decades. Even more evidence has emerged to suggest that Maryland's death was not in fact a suicide. There have been repeated calls to reopen the investigation into Maryland's death some as recent as two thousand and two. This should not be a close case it should be an open case by the DA. There's too much too. Many people too much overwhelming evidence that proves that this was not a suicide and I think that Maryland needs closure the difficulty with finding the truth. Is that nearly all the key? Figures involved in Maryland's death are now dead themselves and the statements they gave during their lifetimes were often contradictory. Many of the witnesses who have spoken out against the official story have been discredited as liars fame seekers and conspiracy theorists despite evidence that they might be telling the truth and many of the people who upheld the official story had their own hidden agendas. It was in their best interest to end the inquiry into Maryland's death as quickly as possible following that clip from conspiracy theories. Monroe's death sent shockwaves across the media. So much so that the Chicago Tribune reported an influx of calls from readers. Overloading their switchboards. Many conspiracy theories about Monroe's demise have offered a wide range of claims. Some believed that. Her doctors accidentally overdosed her others that Robert F Kennedy murdered her but ultimately Monroe's cause of death has remained a suicide a celebrity taking their own. Life is shocking enough but what happens when a famous person is the one suspected of taking the life of another and what if they're victim is also a celebrity coming up. We'll follow a case where the perpetrator is just as famous as their victim. This episode is brought to you by the completely reimagined. Twenty twenty four to escape not too long ago. Driving seemed a lot simpler. Streets were less congested. And there were fewer distractions on the road. Nowadays a million different things are constantly fighting for attention. Ford believes it's not enough to make a vehicle with technology. Drivers need an SUV. That's ready for the challenges of today and can help anticipate the challenges of tomorrow an SUV. That's built street smart. That's why Ford has completely redesigned the twenty twenty four to escape there's Ford co-pilot three sixty a suite advanced standard tack designed to help you feel confident and in-command on the road the completely reimagined twenty twenty four escape. It's not just smart. It's street smart are cast listeners. We realized that there are a lot of par- cash shows to choose from each day and sometimes enough time to sort through them. All in our new feet podcast daily. We filter through all of your favorite podcast series to highlight the most timely and relevant episodes premiering each day. Every Monday through Friday. Discover a new captivating episode curated especially for you. That's one new episode from slate of content handpicked with you in mind. Time is precious. And we've got you covered. Follow podcast daily free on spotify or wherever. You get your podcasts. You can check out more park shows and a full library of episodes in spotify by searching for podcast in the spotify search bar or by going to spotify dot com slash podcast. Well back to the show. We've seen so far. How celebrities death sparked widespread public interest? But what happens when both the victim and their suspected killer are famous. That is the case that our next clip from unsolved murders covering the death of Natalie. Wood in November of Nineteen eighty-one would felt like she had it all. She was a movie. Megastar married to actor Robert Wagner. She wachner their friend. Christopher walken and boat Captain Dennis Vern at taken a yacht out on a weekend trip to Catalina island but as they headed back to their boat after an alcohol. Fueled dinner on the island. Weigman would got into an argument. Doug Bombard was both the owner of the restaurant and the Catalina harbourmaster he was also a friend of wooden wagner's concern for his friend safety. Doug escorted the trio back to their boat after some drunken stumbling. Doug managed to get the three actors on board but Robert and Natalie had both become visibly upset in an effort to avoid tension. Dennis Roberts Yacht. Captain brought the group to the Salon at the back of the ship and tried to continue the party. Doug rescinded the invitation and went home while Dennis made an effort to distract Robert but as Natalie continued to Converse with Christopher Roberts Jealousy overwhelmed him he confronted Christopher and asked him if he was trying to sleep with his wife while throwing a bottle of wine against the wall in a fit of rage. Christopher vehemently insisted that was not his goal and Natalie pulled Robert Away. Christopher left the room as Natalie and Robert began to argue the argument lasted for hours. Christopher went to bed while Dennis listen nervously on the other end of the boat after some time Dennis decided to check in on them and Robert turned his anger on him which according to Dennis was so intense that Dennis genuinely feared for his own life a frightened. Dennis went back upstairs and turned up the music in order to drown out the fight that was happening below him then around midnight. The fighting stopped and there was silence. Dennis waited ten minutes or so then. He went and checked on his employer. He found Robert. Sitting at the ladder to the dinghy curled up and crying. Dennis asked Robert What was wrong. Robert responded by telling him that Natalie had gone missing. Dennis found this odd for several reasons while the yacht was large. It wasn't large enough for someone to truly go missing on board and Dennis had just heard Natalie yelling at Robert only ten minutes before Dennis asked his boss if he should turn on the boats searchlight or call the coastguard. Perhaps Natalie had fallen overboard and they might need the Coast Guard's assistance however Robert insisted they neither turn on the searchlight nor call for help. He claimed they should just wait for Natalie as she was bound to return at any moment against his better instincts. Dennis listened to Robert. Robert was his employer and Natalie's husband. He thought that Robert. Probably new best as they waited. Robert cracked open a bottle of Scotch and the duo drank. They waited a full hour for Natalie to return but by one thirty. Am on November. Twenty ninth there was no sign of her at this point. Dennis insisted that they do something waiting. Wasn't helping them find Natalie. Robert agreed but he's still refuse to call the coastguard. Instead he called his friends in town on Catalina and asked if they had seen Natalie anywhere that might Roberts friends told him to sit tight while they searched the town. Robert and Dennis wise once more but by three thirty am. It became clear that Natalie was nowhere to be found. Finally Dennis convinced robber to call the coastguard. The coastguard was shocked to hear their story. And they ran into each other as they shipped off to find Natalie Wood. We're looking for the Natalie Wood. Do you think we'll be able to get her autograph? She's been missing for over three hours. It's freezing cold. It's raining it stark and they say she can't Swim Lick. I doubt she'll be in any shape to give God damn autograph. The coastguards scoured the ways for hours searching desperately for Natalie. The Bright iridescent glow their searchlights was slowly replaced by the rising. Sun Doug Bombard the Catalina Harbor Director who knew Natalie joined the search as soon as he heard that she was missing at seven forty four. Am On November Twenty Ninth. Nineteen eighty-one dogs boat found something near near the cliff there. There's a dinghy on the Kelp. Slow the boat down from the looks of it that dinghy belongs to Wagner. I'm sure she's nearby but if she made it to land wouldn't have found her by now. She didn't make it to land there bobbing on the waves. A Red Parka and dark brown hair in that clip from unsolved murders. After Natalie Wood's body was found. Her death was initially ruled as an accidental drowning. But the case was reopened in two thousand eleven after boat captain. Dennis diversion admitted. He lied to police about the night of the drowning divergent publicly stated that he believed woods husband Robert Wagner was responsible for her murder he told police that Wagner was reluctant to call the coastguard to investigate this led to the two thousand twelve amendment to woods cause of death from drowning to drowning and other undetermined factors as of two thousand nineteen. Wichner has been named a person of interest by police but there have been no further changes to wood's death certificate and no arrests have been made while neither of the deaths covered in our previous clips have been officially ruled murders in our final clip from not guilty actor. Robert Blake was accused of killing his wife. Bonny Lee Bakley on May fourth. Two Thousand One Robert. Bonnie had just finished eating dinner when Bonnie was shot sitting in the car outside of the restaurant detective Ronald Ito arrived at the scene and Robert. Blake agreed to accompany Ito back to the police station for an interview. Edo asked Blake to walk him through the events of the evening. They went to dinner. At Vitolo's Blake reported that before they left the house. Vanni asked him to bring along one of his guns. She thought someone was stalking her and felt safer with his thirty eight nearby. They parked on the street a little over a block away from the restaurant. The hostess sat them in Blake's customary corner booth around eight thirty PM AFTER THEY ATE. Blake paid the bill. His receipt timestamped nine twenty three pm but when they reached his car he realized that he left his jacket and the thirty eight caliber handgun in the booth. He left Bonnie to wait while he went back to the restaurant to retrieve them while there he asked for two glasses of water and drank them both when he got back to the car at nine thirty eight. Pm HE FOUND. Bonnie had been shot twice. She was barely alive. Frantic Blake ran to the nearest house and banged on the door. He had to try more than one house before someone would answer when they did. He insisted that they call nine. One one police registered the call at nine forty PM. Blake then ran back to the tellers to see if there was a doctor. Present Terry Lorenzo Custody Ada. A nurse jumped up from her dinner to help but by the time they reached Bonnie she was bleeding from her eyes. Nose and mouth cussed. Anita couldn't do anything then. The lights and sirens arrived by the time. The ambulance reached the hospital at ten fifteen pm. Bonnie was dead on arrival. Blake then reiterated to Ito that Bonnie had pissed off a lot of people over the years with her letter scheme. She had plenty of reasons to think someone was following her. This was probably the work of some guy she bilked revenge. Ito wrote down the theory but also noted how quickly blake turned from visceral grief moaning on the sidewalk to trash talking deceased mother of his child so far it appeared to detective. Ito that Robert Blake had plenty of motive to kill his wife and ample opportunity he also had the means. Blake owned several guns in addition to the thirty eight caliber. But the forensics team found no significant gun powder residue when they tested his hands and no blood on his clothes. Bonnie was shot at point-blank range. It was unlikely that the shooter could've walked away. Free of any splatter frustrated Ito sent Blake home. He knew he was missing something he needed. More information following the events of that clip from not guilty to men came forward and told police that Robert Blake had offered them money to kill Bakley in the months before her death blake was subsequently arrested and charged with murder ultimately he was found not guilty of Bakley's murder but after the criminal trial Bakley surviving family members sued. Robert Blake in civil court. He was found liable for the wrongful death of his wife and ordered to pay damages with the endless conspiracy theories and vast media coverage of celebrity death all the clips. Today highlight the intersection between our plastination with true crime. And our obsession with Hollywood and as Dr Simon Moore said it's perfectly normal to search for the sort of details about celebrities passing because it serves the psychological function of boosting our self esteem even decades after they were laid to rest. These celebrities have television episodes movies and podcast covering their deaths and the mysterious circumstances around them. Marilyn Monroe continues to be an enduring figure of Hollywood. Today she even has an official twitter handle that shares photos and quotes from her life though. Robert Blake's film and television career never recovered after his acquittal he has been able to move on emotionally in two thousand seventeen. He announced he was engaged to his third wife. Sixteen years after Bonnie's death. Thanks for tuning into podcast. Cry Bites. We hope you enjoyed this episode unsuspicious celebrity deaths. We'll be back next week with a brand new episode on a Tory. Assassins if you'd like to listen to the episodes we discussed today in full simply search for a podcast original shows conspiracy theories unsolved murders or not guilty on spotify. That only spotify already have all your favorite music but now spotify is making it easy for you to enjoy. All of your favorite podcasts originals. For free from your phone desktop or smart speaker and don't forget to follow us on facebook and Instagram. At podcast and twitter at podcast network. I'll see you next time.

Natalie Wood Robert Blake Maryland Robert Dennis Robert Wagner spotify Marilyn Monroe Bonnie murder Ronald Ito Murray Greenspan official Dr Ralph Greenspan Ford Doug Bombard Eunice Murray Hollywood Robert F Kennedy Bonny Lee Bakley
Hostage Bites: Suspicious Celebrity Deaths

Hostage

00:00 sec | 8 months ago

Hostage Bites: Suspicious Celebrity Deaths

"Welcome to podcast cry Bites. We wanted to give our listeners. Some additional content to help him dive even deeper into the true crime world every week. In addition to your normal hostage episode. We're exploring the most fascinating true crime themes covered across the podcast network. We've collected short clips from some of our most popular podcast originals to help us explore ideas like motivation method and madness and show how interconnected the true crime world really is. You can find these original episodes for free on spotify over every listen to podcasts. A list of episodes that we used. We'll be posted in the episode description. Today we're discussing cases of suspicious celebrity deaths with the intriguing or around Hollywood and society's obsession but celebrities it's no surprise that celebrity deaths are often mired in suspicion and conspiracy theories. But why are we so intrigued? By celebrity death and why is the intrigue amplified when the death is unexpected? David Kaplan former president of the American Counseling Association explains that Social Media is flooded with posts when a celebrity dies because of the bond. We feel watching them. Onscreen Kaplan says that when someone has followed a celebrities career for so long the feel intimately familiar with that person's life therefore it can feel as if a family member has died conversely psychologists Dr Simon more believes that we are intrigued by the details of celebrity deaths because we feel reassured by the fact that someone with more money power and fame is subject to the same rules of mortality that we are whether it be suicide drug addiction or murder it makes us feel more secure our modest apartments and office jobs because at least for not them but what a celebrity's death involves some suspicious element such as murder or conspiracy. We're all the more intrigued due to what criminologist got bond calls. Thrill seeking true. Crime gives the law abiding citizens a boost of adrenaline without ever leaving the couch or being in an actual dangerous situation. We'll start our exploration with a clip from podcast original conspiracy. Theories that discusses the media sensationalized death of actress and sex icon Marilyn Monroe nearly sixty years after her death. Monroe continues to be a pop culture icon. Monroe's private life was the subject of much Hollywood gossip in the nineteen fifties. She was involved in two highly publicized marriages and divorces and battled addiction and depression when she died of a prescription overdose in nineteen sixty two. It was ruled a suicide but many believed there was something more behind her cause of death on August fourth nineteen sixty two. Maryland spent most of the afternoon in a room after having an argument with her friend and publicist Pat Nukem in the morning nukem state at the House for the rest of the afternoon at about three or four. Pm Maryland's housekeeper. Eunice Murray called over her psychiatrist. Dr Ralph Greenspan. She claims she called him because she was troubled by Maryland's request for an oxygen treatment. Even though oxygen was a well-known hangover cure at the time Dr Green soon arrived around three or four Pat Nukem left and green spoke to Maryland in her room for about an hour. Greenspan left asking Murray to stay at Maryland's house overnight and keep an eye on her Maryland took a telephone into her room and spent the night making calls to friends and acquaintances every when she spoke to agree she didn't sound drugged or depressed and she gave no indication. She was considering suicide at around ten PM. She set the receiver down during a call and never turned around ten thirty. She made one last call to Peter. Lawford her friend. And the husband of Patricia Kennedy during the call she apparently drifted into unconsciousness and stopped responding at either midnight or three a m. She changed her story later. In the morning Eunice Murray woke up and noticed a light in Maryland's room was still on but she wasn't responding. She called Dr Green Son who broke in through the bedroom window and found Maryland lying dead clutching the telephone. Next to empty pill. Bottles of prescription sedative called NEMBUTAL and a nearly empty bottle of another sedative choral hydrate. Greenspan called Maryland's physician Dr Hyman Engelberg. Who came over and officially pronounced her dead at four. Twenty five am the police were called. Murray Greenspan and Engelberg initially told investigators Jack Clemens that Maryland's body had been found at midnight creating a four hour gap between discovering the body and calling the police that none of them could account for clemens. Was Relieve by Sergeant Marvin known who sealed up the house until the full investigative force arrived at about five thirty when the investigators questioned them later that morning. Murray Greenspan and Engelberg all changed their stories to say that Maryland's body hadn't been discovered until three a m inconsistencies in the forensic evidence and the witnesses stories. Baffled the police but it did appear to be a suicide so they held off on opening an official investigation until the coroner confirmed the cause of death. The coroner's investigation went on for less than a week during which they interviewed. None of the key witnesses except for Maryland psychoanalyst. Dr Ralph Greenspan after speaking with Dr Greenspan the deputy. Da Leading the investigation said. He was completely convinced that. Maryland's death was not a suicide. The medical examiner's performing the autopsy also believed the death couldn't have been a suicide but despite those findings the coroner officially ruled the cause of death as a probable suicide over the past five decades. Even more evidence has emerged to suggest that Marilyn's death was not in fact a suicide. There have been repeated calls to reopen the investigation into Maryland's death some as recent as two thousand two should not be a close case. It should be an open case by the. Da There's too much too. Many people too much overwhelming evidence that proves that this was not a suicide and I think that Maryland needs closure the difficulty with finding the truth. Is that nearly all the key? Figures involved in Maryland's death are now dead themselves and the statements they gave during their lifetimes were often contradictory. Many of the witnesses who have spoken out against the official story have been discredited as liars fame seekers and conspiracy theorists despite evidence that they might be telling the truth and many of the people who upheld the official story had their own hidden agendas. It was in their best interest to end the inquiry into Maryland's death as quickly as possible following that clip from conspiracy theories. Monroe's death sent shockwaves across the media. So much so that the Chicago Tribune reported an influx of calls from readers. Overloading their switchboards. Many conspiracy theories about Monroe's demise have offer a wide range of claims. Some believe that. Her doctors accidentally overdosed her others that Robert F Kennedy murdered her but ultimately Monroe's cause of death has remained a suicide a celebrity taking their own. Life is shocking enough but what happens when a famous person is the one suspected of taking the life of another and what if they're victim is also a celebrity coming up. We'll follow a case where the perpetrator is just as famous as their victim podcast listeners. We realized that there are a lot of par- cash shows to choose from each day and sometimes not enough time to sort through them. All in our new feed par cast daily. We filtered through all of your favorite podcast series to highlight the most timely and relevant episode premiering. Each day every Monday through Friday. Discover a new and captivating episode curated specifically for you. That's one new episode from our slate of content handpicked with you in mind. Time is precious. And we've got you covered follow. Par cast daily free on spotify. Or wherever you get your podcasts you can check out more par cash shows and a full library of episodes in spotify by searching for podcast in the spotify. Search bar or by going to spotify dot com slash podcast. Now back to the show. We've seen so far how celebrities death can spark widespread public interest. But what happens when both victim and their suspected killer are famous. That is the case that our next clip from unsolved murders covering the death of Natalie. Wood in November of Nineteen eighty-one would felt like she had it all. She was a movie. Megastar married to actor Robert Wagner. She Wagner their friend. Christopher Walken and boat Captain Dentist Verne had taken a yod out on a weekend trip to Catalina island but as they headed back to their boat after an alcohol fueled dinner on the island Wagner and would got into an argument Doug Bombard was both the owner of the restaurant and the Catalina harbourmaster. He was also a friend of wooden. Wagner's concern for his friends safety. Doug escorted the trio back to their boat after some drunken stumbling. Doug manage to get the three actors on board but Robert and Natalie had both become visibly upset in an effort to avoid tension. Dennis Roberts Yacht. Captain brought the group to the Salon. The back of the ship in tried to continue the party. Doug rescinded the invitation and went home while Dennis made an effort to distract Robert but as Natalie continued to converse with Christopher Roberts. Jealousy overwhelmed him he confronted Christopher and asked him if he was trying to sleep with his wife while throwing a bottle of wine against the wall in a fit of rage. Christopher vehemently insisted that was not his goal in Natalie pulled Robert Away. Christopher left the room as Natalie and Robert began to argue the argument lasted for hours. Christopher went to bed while Dennis listen nervously on the other end of the boat after some time Dennis decided to check in on them and Robert turned his anger on him which according to Dennis was so intense that Dennis genuinely feared for his own life a frightened. Dennis went back upstairs and turned up the music in order to drown out the fight that was happening below him then around midnight. The fighting stopped and there was silence. Dennis waited ten minutes or so then. He went and checked on his employer. He found Robert. Sitting at the ladder to the dinghy curled up and crying. Dennis asked Robert What was wrong. Robert responded by telling him that Natalie had gone missing. Dennis found this odd for several reasons while the yacht was large. It wasn't large enough for someone to truly go missing on board and Dennis had just heard Natalie yelling at Robert only ten minutes before. Dennis asked his boss if he should turn on the boat. Searchlight or call the coastguard. Perhaps Natalie had fallen overboard and they might need the Coast Guard's assistance however Robert insisted they neither turn on the searchlight nor call for help. He claimed they should just wait for Natalie as she was bound to return at any moment against his better instincts. Dennis listen to Robert. Robert was his employer and Natalie's husband. He thought that Robert. Probably new best as they waited. Robert cracked open a bottle of Scotch and the duo drank. They waited a full hour for Natalie to return but by one thirty. Am on November. Twenty ninth there was no sign of her at this point. Dennis insisted that they do something waiting. Wasn't helping them find Natalie. Robert agreed but he's still refused to call the coastguard. Instead called his friends in town on Catalina and asked if they had seen Natalie anywhere that night Roberts friends told him to sit tight while they searched the town. Robert and Dennis waited once more but by three thirty a M. It became clear that Natalie was nowhere to be found. Finally Dennis Convinced Robert to call the coastguard. The coastguard was shocked to hear their story. And they ranted to each other as they shipped off to find Natalie Wood. We're looking for the Natalie Wood. Do you think we'll be able to get her autograph? She's been missing for over three hours. It's freezing cold it's raining it's dark and they say she can't swim a lick. I doubt she'll be any shape to give a God damn autograph. The coastguard scoured the for hours searching desperately for Natalie. The Bright iridescent glow of their searchlights was slowly replaced by the rising Sun Doug Bombard the Catalina Harbor Director who knew Natalie joined the search as soon as he heard that she was missing at seven. Forty Four A. M. on November. Twenty Ninth Nineteen eighty-one dogs boat found something near near the cliff there. There's a dinghy on the Kelp. Slow the boat down from the looks of it that dinghy belongs to Wagner. I'm sure she's nearby but if she made it to land wouldn't someone have found her by now. She didn't make it to land there bobbing on the waves. A Red Parka and dark brown hair in that clip from unsolved murders. After Natalie Wood's body was found her death was initially ruled as an accidental drowning. But the case was reopened in two thousand. Eleven after captain. Dennis d'auvergne admitted he lied to police. About the night of the drowning different publicly stated that he believed woods husband Robert Wagner was responsible for her murder he told police that Wagner was reluctant to call the coastguard to investigate. This led to the two thousand twelve amendment to woods cause of death from accidental drowning to drowning and other undetermined factors as of two thousand nineteen white has been named a person of interest by police but there have been no further changes to wood's death certificate and no arrests have been made well. Neither the deaths covered in our previous clips have beneficially ruled murders in our final clip from not guilty actor. Robert Blake was accused of killing his wife. Bonny Lee Bakley on May fourth. Two thousand one Robert and Bonnie had just finished eating dinner when Bonnie was shot sitting in the car outside of the restaurant. Detective Ronald Ito arrived at the scene and Robert. Blake agreed to accompany Ito back to the police station for an interview. Ito asked Blake to walk him through the events of the evening they went to dinner at Vitelle. Blake reported that before they left the house. Bonnie asked him to bring along one of his guns. She thought someone was stalking her and felt safer with his thirty eight nearby. They parked on the street. A little over a block away from the restaurant. The hostess sat them in Blake's customary corner booth around eight thirty PM AFTER THEY ATE. Blake paid the bill. His receipt timestamped nine twenty three pm but when they reached his car he realized that he left his jacket and the thirty eight caliber handgun in the booth. He left Bonnie to wait while he went back to the restaurant to retrieve them while there he asked for two glasses of water and drank them both when he got back to the car at nine thirty eight. Pm HE FOUND. Bonnie had been shot twice. She was barely alive. Frantic Blake ran to the nearest house and banged on the door. He had to try more than one house before someone would answer when they did. He insisted that they call nine. One one police registered the call at nine forty PM Blake then ran back to Vitelle owes to see if there was a doctor present. Terry Lorenzo customer data. A nurse jumped up from her dinner to help but by the time they reached Bonnie she was bleeding from her eyes nose and mouth custom. Yadda couldn't do anything then. The lights and sirens arrived by the time. The ambulance reached the hospital at ten fifteen pm. Bonnie was dead on arrival. Blake then reiterated to Ito that Bonnie had pissed off a lot of people over the years with her letter scheme. She had plenty of reasons to think someone was following her. This was probably the work of some guy she bilked revenge. Ito wrote down the theory but also noted how quickly blake turned from visceral grief moaning on the sidewalk to trash talking the deceased mother of his child so far it appeared to detective. Ito that Robert Blake had plenty of motive to kill his wife and ample opportunity he also had the means. Blake owned several guns in addition to the thirty eight caliber. But the forensics team found no significant gun powder residue when they tested his hands and no blood on his clothes. Bonnie was shot at point blank range. It was unlikely that the shooter could've walked away. Free of any spider frustrated Ito sent Blake home. He knew he was missing something he needed. More information following the events of that clip from not guilty to men came forward and told police that Robert Blanket offer them money to kill Bakley in the months before her death lake with subsequently arrested and charged with murder ultimately he was found not guilty of Bakley's murder but after the criminal trial basically surviving family members sued. Robert Blake in civil court. He was found liable for the wrongful death of his wife and ordered to pay damages with the endless conspiracy theories and vast media coverage of celebrity death all the clips. Today highlight the intersection between our fascinating. True Crime and our obsession with Hollywood and as Dr Simon Moore said it's perfectly normal to search for the sort of details about a celebrities passing because it serves the psychological function of boosting our self esteem even decades after they were laid to rest. These celebrities have television episodes movies and podcasts covering their deaths and the mysterious circumstances around them. Marilyn Monroe continues to be an enduring figure of Hollywood. Today she even has an official twitter handle that shares photos and quotes from her life though. Robert Blake's film and television career never recovered after his acquittal he has been able to move on emotionally in two thousand seventeen. He announced he was engaged to his third wife. Sixteen years after Bonnie's death thanks for tuning into Parkhouse Cry Bites. We hope you enjoyed this episode unsuspicious celebrity deaths. We'll be back next week with a brand new episode under Torius. Assassins if you'd like to listen to the episodes we discussed today in full simply search for a podcast original shows conspiracy theories unsolved murders or not guilty on spotify. That only to spotify already. Have all your favorite music. But now spotify is making it easy for you to enjoy. All of your favorite podcasts originals. For free from your phone desktop or smart speaker and don't forget to follow us on facebook and Instagram at podcast and twitter. At podcast at work. I'll see you next time.

Natalie Wood Robert Blake Robert Maryland Marilyn Monroe Dennis Robert Wagner spotify Bonnie Ronald Ito murder Murray Greenspan Dr Ralph Greenspan Doug Bombard Robert F Kennedy Dennis Roberts Hollywood official Bonny Lee Bakley
The Economist asks: Can America remain the world's biggest economic power?

The Economist Radio

34:08 min | 2 years ago

The Economist asks: Can America remain the world's biggest economic power?

"Hello and welcome to the economist asks, I'm mckelway. And this week we're asking, can America maintain its position as the world's greatest economic power. By many measures, the American economy east powering ahead GDP is on track to grow at around three percent. This year, and the unemployment rate isn't impressively low three point, seven percent. It's an unmissable of charity. Phuc President Trump to describe the economy as so good. Perhaps the best he said in our country's history, but for others, the same figures present economic puzzle. My guests today, the authors of new book called ambitiously capitalism in America. A history Dr. Alan Greenspan was first appointed by President. Reagan as chair, the US, Federal, Reserve, and presided in that role Philippe twenty years at the helm in an age of turbulence. Was he an optimistic believer in market officiency failing to bubbles in the late nineteen? Ninety s two thousands was he won. Biography recently put it the man who knew as chair of the Federal Reserve. He's well versed in giving God at comments. His every word could move markets like his description of irrational exuberance, which sent market south in nineteen Ninety-six while before the dot com bubble finally burst into thousand Dr. Greenspan welcome to the economist asks and we hope you feel kind of with us today. Thank you very much. I'm delighted to be here. His Co. order is very free talking journalist, Adrian Wooldridge, formerly our American bureau, chief and Lexington and Shumpert a columnist. Now, our budget push political columnist. Adrian, thank you to for joining us. You Dr Greenspan you start the book by imagining the World Economic Forum that grand gathering in devils in sixteen twenty over countries of the world, jostling for dominance America however, doesn't feature. So how did it become the world's biggest economy. Well, that's the extrordinary story which we try to present in the book that words, that's where we started. And we are where we are today for good or ill, but the whole substance of the book is a conceptual approach to what forces word play, which got us from there to here and what all the forces that you think that drives America forward. When we look at that grand sweep of history. Well, basically what is characterized the United States through most of our history is that we wrote helped by the constitution of the United States. It said, property rights, various other relationships, which created the optimum climate for economic growth. And there's no question that where we tobacco off from that, that we'd start to become an average economy. Did you read it? Similarly, -absolutely I think that the the central argument of the book is that's economic growth is driven by what Joseph's Shumpert a called in nineteen forty, two creative destruction. It's the willingness to move from old established ways of doing things to new innovative ways of doing things, and we augment the book that America has been unusual in its willingness to embrace creative destruction. What are the reasons why America's been say willing? I think partly because it's such a big country and that it could it could afford to move from the old to the new in ways in which small countries are much more more nervous is partly because it's a new country. America was founded in roughly the same year that Speth read the wealth of nations. Most countries, old countries with old established ways of doing things. America wasn't ready. It was. It was created in the world of growth in the world of business. And so it was dynamic in that sense. Had a uniquely entrepreneurial culture, a uniquely entrepreneurial approach to business lots of immigrants, lots of lots of room to move lots of economic resources. So it's it's a very dynamic culture, but it's Dr. Greenspan said it was a dynamic culture with one fixed point, and that fixed point is the constitution. The constitution defines a set of rights. It divides power. It creates a sort of framework which provides stability amongst all the dynamism. So is this unique combination of dynamism and the stability certainty provided by the constitution, which I think explains a lot of America's greatness. Doc degrees, and I'm going to choose from these very rich period. And even that is quite a long era. Adrian is covered in that sentence, what you going to choose from this beyond the sort of foundational time as the decisive maintenance, put it in blunt, make make America rich. Post civil war period which were talking about civil war was devastating period for the United States, and although it was obvious consequences with slavery and what they post civil war period was was an extraordinary period of economic growth, basically characterized by the ability to take an industrial environment and reduce the amount of input required to get the same out for Henry Bessemer. In eighteen fifties, came up with a wholly new way of producing steel which had been an a steel industry became a dominant force and the second half of the nineteenth century and the United States. And in fact, created Andrew Carnegie who ultimately put together the pieces of what became US steel. But then as the years went on and we ran into Henry Ford and development of motor vehicles for the average person, this accelerated the whole development and it's historically unprecedented and any other country in the world. United States space extraordinary capacity to bring in immigrants from abroad with extreme entrepreneurial skills, but also adapt ideas from the rest of the. And apply them at scale. And the sort of scale of something that Carnegie steel is unparalleled in Britain. Britain is the biggest producers still in the eighteen fifties. And then by nineteen hundred is absolutely dwarfed by, I think at Carnegie steel on his own is producing more than the whole of the United Kingdom. So America really takes the lead in the world from Great Britain in in in that fifty years span and seeing, as you mentioned both of you have touched Andrew Carnegie, what about the rubber barons and their reputation in massing immense wealth, oversleep building businesses, which will world-beating, but their reputation in particular time when we look at the gaps in wealth and at the super rich with perhaps more skepticism than we did the robber barons have a lot to answer for. I mean, the robber barons are amassing huge fortunes and it's often said in their defense that they may have a mass these great fortunes. But at least they gave some of the money away in philanthropy. And it's wonderful philanthropies. They create breath, much more important thing that they did was to reduce enormously. The cost of inputs into the economy, say, if you're reducing the cost of steel and your reducing the cost of oil actually ultimately making everybody much richer and what the that that reducing those costs because they're developing organizations ways of running the steel industry ways of running the oil industry, which which simply much much much more efficient and they're driving their competitors out of business, not because they're that cheating, but because they're just better at doing what they're doing. This is very interesting comparison. I think between the the robber barons of the nineteenth century and today's silica giants extraordinary comparison because the similarities between the between Silicon Valley and the robber baron world a quite a Sonics. You have huge companies being created very, very quickly. You have entrepeneurship basically masterminding the creation of these companies and you have fundamental economic inputs in. In the nineteenth century, stealing oil today, information being rented, much, much cheaper for everybody. And I think that this points to two remarkable things about America which helps to explain why America's become the great economic giants that it has. One is America's just really good at producing entrepreneurs. These people who capable of taking industries and revolutionizing them have absolutely gigantic. I'm visions and Secondly, America's incredibly good creating companies startups that can can become giants very, very quickly. Don't you Greenspan? Where do we think the sad story of slavery fits in this picture? How does it affect the engines of capitalism. Well, it's not the engine capitalism. It's the constitution. Slavery is an abomination. I mean, you can have an hiccup. Basic statement of the declaration of independence. All men are created equal. Well, that redefines who is a man who is not. And I think that. What. We've been dealing with and what. Slavery actually did was. As continued going, which essentially create an impossible situation which meant the civil war was inevitable. I've always argued that it was a cotton gin which was invented in seventeen ninety three, which took the cost of so-called up land cotton down very significantly. So when the issue arose with the cotton, gin and production increased extraordinary amount of so-called short, staple cotton. We had very high demand for slavery. So what's happening here and is that's slavery. Is it some ways becoming outmoded in hers ever moved to? It's becoming people like Jefferson and Washington, who is slave owners beginning to free that slaves. And also the present pyre, of course, abolishes slavery in eighteen thirty three. I think so slavery is beginning to look backward looking. And then something remarkable happens, which is technological innovation with the cotton. Gin makes slavery economically vital to see slavery declining in the late eighteenth and early nineteenth century. Then it begins to take off again and spread across the United States because this technological innovation makes it more economically useful profitable. Now, some of our listeners will be familiar with the kind of experience where we go and you see, all of Shakespeare plays very truncated in eight one short performance. I'm going to have to move you two gentlemen along Papp's through history, little bit faster than the might seem comfortable to skew do homework for us. Why did the great depression happen? What would you say. Goes back to World War One. One of the things that occur as a country Quance as you all know is that when the war was over Britain. All other European countries try to reset the currencies against the United States dollar which existed prewar and as a result, a huge distortion and the whole structure of economic forces. And that is often discussed is the reason why Hitler arose in the why all extrordinary things that occurred to lead us essentially to World War Two, which is really an extension of World War One because we'll one never resolve the problems that existed that caused it. Well. Hard question, but what are the things about the great depression is that there in some ways to depressions to recessions as one of the beginning of the nineteen thirties. And then America begins to get out of the the recession, partly because of the the, the new deal in the mid nineteen thirties. But then towards the end of the nineteen thirties, it goes back into into recession, unemployment starts going going back up. You've got the serious crisis of the economy yet again in the late nineteen hundred isn't anything that really pulls America out of the depression I think is this is the second World War which passively simulates demand leader. Sounds like the city's problems is, is War. I mean, it's almost kind of this. Brush view of capitalism. It's driven by war in the wool machines drive the wealth. I mean, why is that wrong? Basically because. What I did was at craft and ships people cannot have bread on the table as a consequence of improvement in aircraft ships. It's Millie, the mechanism and the awareness, for example, that went to trickle cost plus system that there's no better way to get the private sector to function than a cost plus system. But I think that's going bit too far. I don't think it's in the spirit of free market economy is us to step back perhaps and looking at that question about the depression and what we learned from it when we come to dealing with financial crash of two thousand. And what did you learn about that history. Well, I, I would say first of all. It's a bubble bursting. Bubbles are the result of human. I don't know if it's a college a what it is, but they're Florida aspect to human nature. One of which it produces bubbles because of degree of euphoria which irrationally evolves and eventually collapse. It looks for example that when the crash occurred in two thousand eight, it was actually far more virulent and in collapsing of the financial system than nineteen twenty nine. In nineteen twenty nine. You still have very a call money market still existed and twenty twenty five percent interest rates. But in two thousand eight, the market disappears there one, no bids were nobody willing to back up a number of the markets and the system imploded very significantly. And it wasn't until we had the actual evidence that happened there. Granted the nature of human beings, how they behave with uncertainty and the like, and this is your intimately which behavioral behavioral economics as Dell's very deeply. And any event you have to do two things to produce the nineteen twenty nine and two thousand. Eight crisis one. You need a toxic asset and the toxic acid and nineteen twenty nine with stocks and. Two thousand eight. It was mortgages, but you also need as a necessary condition that these toxic assets are also basically leveraged. On. The one thing that appeared in both nineteen twenty nine and two thousand eight was a high degree of leverage. So I've concluded now we now understand the way these things arise based on the two major examples that we've learned from these two examples. We actually base real theory of how to prevent future crises onto. Temples, eleven bitter that it's directly into that context. When when people say you don't degrees Monday, presided over an enormous credit bubble. What was the central flew in you thinking that you discern when you back on that. Well, I have the impression that on the ABS vacations that I had made up to that date. Was that a backers and shouldn't Sears generally would tend to look after their own self interest and the manner adequate to create a rebalancing. But it was very clear, especially at the top of the two thousand boom doesn't eight boom, that everyone was waiting for it to crash. But the chairman of city group said so long as music is playing, we have to dance when it stops, we won't. But the reason I did that as they didn't quote dance close quote, they would've lost market share. So this very interesting set of relationships which basically go back the fundamental human nature and have their either go back to South Sea bubble. They all have these various characteristics. And I think two thousand eight actually a major statistical input because we never had before seen financial markets, especially short term financial markets literally freeze the way they did in two thousand eight wants to one of the things that struck me watching this from very much from the outside was simply the power of politics during this in the sense that both the Democrats and the Republicans for different reasons wanted to increase the number of Americans who had homes. The Democrats said, let's let's have lots of poor people getting homes, and the Republicans between George W Bush has, let's have a homework owning democracy. That'll be good for of Republican that you save got huge political pressure on people to to, to borrow money to to get into the property market. Was that a big factor at this time through Fannie Mae and Freddie MAC and the the, the mortgage finance bay. Based in Washington. And did I spent a good deal of my time both as chairman of the fed and as a private citizen complaining that these two institutions upland subsidized. Producers of toxic assets. There that we could unpack about what's being done to web blame, might've late in the past, but where do you think the next bubble financial crisis is mostly likely to come from Dr Greenspan you your ghosts of irrational exuberance. You sometimes feel them around you today? Actually, I don't think this Akon is as a buoyant as the number of people do. I best writ by the rate of growth in productivity, not by the employment rate, not by inflation as such. But fundamental is output per hour up put per hour in the last eight or nine years has been at a subnormal rate of interest as indeed the whole world has been in Britain Brexit as a wonderful example of what happens to a market economy when it's rate of growth slows down beneath a certain threshold. And I think what engendered Brexit and what is in 'gendering emergence of Donald Trump and the United States on two major Connie's slowing significantly below. That potential rate of growth. And for example, in the last six months of six years, many, how you wanna look at it off productivity growth rate is been under one percent of year. So is that in the UK we both used to be three percent of their abouts, and that is a huge difference in the type the level of the economy and you get people coming in as indeed the Brazilian election is showing very much similar type of pattern where Brazil was extraordinarily potent economy and it collapsed under very dubious political control agent. He's covering Britain Brexit's in the rates, backstage. Do you entirely identify with that that you can sort of make a direct correlation. Between the lower rates, productivity growth and populism. Absolutely. I think that basically what you have is an economy where everybody's competing for a fairly fixed pie. And so that sets interest groups against each other instead of looking to to get richer and better that that looking to get a big share of fix pine. I think also is a weird thing that's going on as well, which is that we have a combination of a very high degree of economic turbulence. There's a lot of change. Churn lots of technological innovation, but there's no really serious overall productivity growth. So everybody will move happily move house on the job. If I move into a bigger house or a better job, never been a hostile move to to the same sort of house or the same sort of job, but they're getting all the churn, none of none of the benefits. And I think that's terrible mixture. What would we learned from the history? The you two written together about populism. You discuss populism and its economic environment in the late nineteenth century, what would we learn about contending with populism in Donald Trump's America who other forms in Europe today. I think we're moving towards what we call stagflation. That is it's very difficult to have this huge fiscal deficit because remember one of the real problems with respect to untitled, it's just explained entitlements in this context for us, please. She didn't study. Greenspan international arena. It's called social benefits at its various pension funds set up by government as welfare programs to take care of various aspects of the population. In the United States, we have an old agents of Ivers fund. We have Medicare Medicaid and ever variety of other things which individuals by the very nature of being a citizen of the United States and having certain other characteristics are entitled to government payments of a certain dimension. If they were fully funded, which they were in the beginning and we're supposed to be, then there would not have that negative effect on the economy, but they're not the huge deficit which is scheduled if you listen to Congressional Budget Office and the United States, the debt. Scheduled to go up to tremendously I levels and the years immediately. Miserable agency. Two things to do with populism problem. First of all, it's going to get growth back. It's push it, sprayed of productivity growth back up, and I think tackling the entitlement problem is absolutely fundamental to that because it's shifting money away from productive investments to less productive use, and we have to make sure that new future financial crises. And I think there are ways of reducing the likelihood of financial crises by forcing banks to keep more cash in reserves. Requisite cash reserves. Convinced the twin spend the we're not risking another financial crisis right now. Points out if we were to go to, for example, club, the average rate of equity capital and commercial banks or financial intermediaries. Is historically low but far more important. We would solve all of the issues of contagious default, which is a necessary condition for the two thousand eight nineteen twenty nine type of crisis. And if you have an ability to prevent contagious default and the one way to do it is to look and ask yourself where in a free market economy, is there no significant type of the fault feeding on for one another? And that is an anon- so-called nonfinancial sector of the economy where the capital stock equity to assets is forty percent. Some in many cases, much larger than that. Commercial banks have eleven to fifteen percent. And the chances of contagious series of defaults and the first case where you have very large capital buffers is very low to nonexistent where it's very high under a troublesome. And one of the things that we put in the book is to explain how we can have a system, partly reflecting the the Swedish experience and what we see in the developed world generally how to solve this problem by doing a simple thing show up -ly raising the capital requirements and what the data show is going all the way back to eighteen sixty nine is that there is no relationship between the amount of capital have relative to assets and re. Return on equity. That means that the people who argue that they will. That point to this very substantial change would induce a major problem on just mistaken that they do not show that. And the reason is that the rate of return on equity capital is a built in issue of human time forever. And that does not vary and would not very respective of how much capital we require financial intermediaries. So this is a sensual extremely optimistic book about American capitalism because there was some people say that America deceased debate, exceptional nationless. The rate of growth will slow down is because it's an advanced economy and the other people who say that it's the nature of technology that he just doesn't generate this growth that we've seen in the past. We didn't think that's the case. We think there's an extraordinary technological revolution going on. There's an extraordinary. Power in the American economy that generates really high levels of growth. But it's it's been slowing down partly because of a poorly run financial system which generated at a crisis of important promotions in two thousand eight. And partly because of very badly run entitlements, which means America's spending more entitlements ridden. It's funding so that that feels the deficit. But if you could solve to pull ac- problems, the underlying economy, the economy that you see these great companies like Google an Amazon, the rest of it is a very powerful one. So America could reclaim its its dynamism. And that's very important because dooby won't the twenty first century to be defined by an authoritarian society like China or a liberal society, the United States. So a lot depends on solving these. These policy problems agent is become too close most through to base view the question of whether they can be more than one winner really as as we look forward. Is China will get to challenge these optimistic reading that you seem to show. Warts and all about the American economy. If you go back and China's history, Deng Xiaoping. Essentially reversed Mousa domes basic comment system which existed after World War Two. And we had a whole series progressively of increasingly more liberal governments in China. And I remember very distinctly, I had to work with. Junk some in and Huron g and the nineteen nineties and their basic. Disclose view one being the president, elevating the prime minister, there's you is, how do we make Chinese of Konomi function like American. Now with she in power now, perhaps semi permanently this, this is not the vision that Deng Xiaoping had, but I would say if it weren't for this little. This major problem, China would be very successful a market economy as it was developing. I always called it the the most capitalist in action for a number of years until. Ran into the last three or four regimes, and I frankly, I wasn't in government time obviously, and I don't know what happened and you're not gonna find out what's happening with an apology unless you're sitting there. Absolutely. I think that that's right. But I do think that's I trust America to support the the values of liberal democracy around the world. It has done for the last century. So they're really if we can improve the rates of American productivity growth and ensure that the American economy is dynamic in this centers. It wasn't a law century. That's not just good for America is good for the rest of the world because ultimately Americans being the champion of liberal democracy to Alan Greenspan and Asian wooded. Thank you very much. We are on Email here, radio code dot com. Over on Twitter at accordeonist, radio. If you'd like to feed in your foods on America, economic power. What life beyond Miquel voi- in London. This is the economist.

America US Dr. Alan Greenspan Donald Trump Adrian Wooldridge China President Britain Dr Greenspan Federal Reserve chairman Carnegie
Fiercest Fires Were Lit by the Fed  Ep 610

The Peter Schiff Show Podcast

00:00 sec | Last month

Fiercest Fires Were Lit by the Fed Ep 610

"Leadership. Show. I WANNA. Thank indeed. They are the newest sponsor of the Peter Shift show podcast right now small businesses have to be more efficient than ever when it comes to their hiring in every decision they make is critical indeed is the number one job site in the world and you can get a seventy five dollars credit at indeed dot com slash Peter Terms and conditions apply and this special offer is only valid until September thirtieth so don't wait act now. Major stock markets closed out a moderately higher week on a mixed note today, you had the Dow in the SNP ending positive you had the Nasdaq Russell two thousand on negative, but I would make much out of this week's bounce I know there are a lot of people. Now that are saying it's bottom. The vicious bear market that we had last week is already come to an end and of course, in in a few individual stocks, it was a bear market but overall none of the major indexes I dipped into bear market territory but I don't think the Bulls are out of the woods on this one. I still think the charts look like there is a lot of potential that we can see decline. Of course, you've got the backstop of the federal. Reserve in fact, it's only because the Fed is there that the market didn't have a bigger drop this week. The reason we didn't have more follow through is because people expect the Fed to come to the rescue. In fact, if the Fed wasn't there, the market never would have been at the levels that it just dropped from me while gold had a small gain on the week nothing big but technicals are looking incredible on goal goal think is around one, thousand, nine, hundred, forty, three. It is building this new support or consolidating rather above. These support level that used to be the resistance level these spike. Hi that we had in two thousand eleven of about nine, thousand, nine hundred. That's now the support and the longer the old high can remain the new Loewe, the new resistance I think the stronger this next rally is going to be the gold stocks were actually down a little bit on the week. So you still have a lot of skepticism there. You have a lot of nervous bulls, but to me, it looks beautiful chart looks beautiful. The fundamentals really looked beautiful for these stocks I just think you take. Advantage, if you're not a positioned well in the sector now's your chance I. Mean You you. You had better chances earlier certainly march was a gift horse which I strongly advised my listeners not to look in the mouth and to buy with with both hands. But even if you didn't take my advice back, then you can still buy even if you did take my advice back then and you bought, you can still average up if you don't have a big enough position and one good way to take advantage of the gold price before it makes its next move up. About the Perth Mint and I've been working with the Perth Mint in Australia now for I don't know almost twenty years, not quite two, thousand and two. Thousand and three is when I first became a dealer for the Perth. Mint. But I think that's another great way to have some gold stored outside the country and they have a great program for physical goal. They will store your unallocated gold for free no storage fees and over time that adds up restoring it for you for free year after year you're in good shape. So it's a great way to have gold. I recommend that people have gold in various locations, diversify where you store your gold because you never know but the Perth Mint is a great place to store it. It's a government owned entity reinsured by Lloyds, very, very safe depository for your gold. So you can trust that your goal is there. Nothing's going to happen to it, and if you're interested in learning about the Perth Mint, if you have an account now with Euro Pacific capital. Talk to your broker, because all the Pacific capital brokers can help set you up a Perth account and we're the only dealer. By the way they can work in a lot of these western states like California because of the model state laws that exist. So we're the only dealer that can help Americans at about thirteen states are how forget the exact number, but they're mostly out west were all these fires are. But so we can help you. So talk to your broker if you don't already have broker. You just call up and talk to Danielle Parsons are or just go to gold. You can fold dot com that's the website that I set up that will take you directly to the Perth Mint Page on the Euro Pacific capital website that's gold. You can fold dot Com and get a hold of Danny and she'll set you up and help you by there are some storage fees on silver now, they used to do that for free but now they've got so much silver. They don't have any room for more of it so they have to start charging, but it's still a very, very low rate on your silver but. Remember zero storage fees for the goal. Of course, the biggest factor that's ultimately going to be driving gold and gold stocks is going to be inflation going to be inflation and a weakening dollar. The dollar is going to lose value not only against other Fiat currencies but it's GONNA lose even more value against real money gold and silver, and it's going to buy less and less. In fact, we actually got some of the government's official numbers that purport to measure inflation. Of course, they don't they measure consumer prices and they don't even do a good job of doing that because the way the government has reverse engineered. The CPI and the P. i. a lot of the gains that prices are experiencing aren't even reflected in these numbers by the time they grind through the mill there and they adjust them. He'd Gone Ikley and they do some weighted averaging or whatever happens the data that comes out does it really look much like the data that that goes in? and. So we constantly get a more benign picture of what's happening the prices consumers are paying prices that are rising at rates that are faster than what we get from these official numbers. But the numbers we got, we got the producer price index that one came out yesterday and the consensus was for point two percent increase you know pretty low. Much lower than the point six we got for July and we ended up with point three. So a hotter than expected number. More than people were looking for, and in fact, if you look at the core right ex food and energy, they call that the core month over month that was up point four, they were looking for a gain of two to double estimates, not quite as much as the point five from July, but back to back point five point four, these things are adding up year-over-year though only up point six percent on the core. Ex Food and energy, but they were looking for up point three. So again, the numbers low but not nearly as low as people expected. But the reality is the numbers are actually much higher than at and regardless these numbers are GONNA go up. So these low numbers are not gonNA be as low in the future as they have been in the past and eventually they're gonNA be high by any standard the CPI though that came out today also August CPI, they were looking for point three on that one. Again, a slight beat at point four that's the headline number. year-over-year, they were looking for up one point two up one point three. So still well below that two percent number, which now the fledged bed seizes a floor rather than a ceiling or a target. So according to the Fed Bay still have a lot more inflation that needs to be created because prices are not rising nearly facet a member they want to get the average above two percent and right now we're still running below to the way they measure it. So they've got a long way to go to succeed. Of course, their success is the economy's loss. But they haven't figured that out yet. On A. The core right ex food and energy double again, they were looking for a point to we gotta point four and you're every year on the core. Now it's up one point, seven percent. So we're almost at that two percent level when you just look at the core CPI which you know the Fed used to light to look at, but you know they always. Change. If they like to look at whichever was lower. So if the core is running lower than the headline, they like to focus on the core. But then if the core is lower than the headline, then they focus on that so you ever Lower is where they're going to say, that's the the index we're looking at because of course, they don't WanNa, ever have to do anything about. Inflation being too high. Because that's exactly what they want. They want more inflation, and now they've actually come out and confessed it. I mean they had been in the closet for a long time and everybody at the Fed was a closet inflationist. They just didn't want to come out of the closet and admit it because you know you know want to admit to something like that. When you're on the Fed I, mean because people think they're the firemen they don't think they're lighting the fires but now you have the Fed coming out and telling you, we're GonNa like two fires where a bunch of arsonists and we're going to go out and set fires in. We will don't think that that's the problem. But one person who does think it's a problem is Alan Greenspan. Very ironically, the Maestro himself was on CNBC yesterday and I caught that interview live. And you know as Alan Greenspan gets older an older right and you hear him talk. No. He sounds more like me and less like his prior self. And in fact, if you hear him talk in different settings, he's even more concerned. Then he? Seen BC. Yesterday but member, I think Alan Greenspan. Is the most knowledgeable of the Fed chairman that we've had since Greenspan. Right. So if you compare Greenspan's understanding of economics and banking and money and all that he towers above a Brac Yellen and Powell. And he's the guy that wrote the playbook that these guys are following. The differences he knows it doesn't end. Well, I think he wrote that playbook knowing that it was gonNA lead to disaster eventually but he didn't care he at the time. Greenspan. Just fell in love with his own popularity was the hero of Wall Street everybody loved him and went to his head, and you know that old saying about power corrupting well, it certainly corrupted Greenspan absolutely I'm sure Iran was doing somersaults in inner grave they used to be buddy-buddies. evacuee wrote a very, very brilliant piece case for gold, which was in reaons capitalism the unknown ideal, which is a great book that my father gave me to read very early on when I was young man I read that book I. Think I was probably I might have read it in high school or college I can't remember but it was one of the earlier introductions I had to both ran and capitalism but Alan Greenspan's essay is there And you know you could still read that US online too. So the guy who wrote that obviously understands Fiat money central banking and and he was a big critic of the Fed and the next thing you knew he was the leader of the FAT I. And and so he kind of instead of trying to dismantle it from within he then really tried to legitimize it and he's the one that started to say that. Well, you know he looked at the price of gold when Alan Greenspan was a fed chairman he admitted that he watched the price of goal quite closely and of course when he was fed chairman newest around four hundred dollars an ounce three, hundred dollars an ounce I forget the exact price. But if you listened who is old interviews from the nineties, he will mention that he watches. The price of gold as a measure of whether his monetary policy is good right? Because he says, if the price of gold is rising too much then obviously I'm too easy. I'm creating too much inflation and if the price is falling too much then maybe I'm too tight and I need to ease up and what Greenspan was claiming even though he's a gold bug at heart, he said, you know we're smart enough now the central bankers that we can supply the same discipline that gold did, which was all bs he had no ability to do that. But he was saying that we're going to substitute the judgment and the wisdom of central bankers for goal but we're still going to use gold as kind of a broader so that even though we're not officially on a gold standard, unofficially, we're going to watch the price of gold to kind of keep policy in line and if we see the price. Of Gold going up towards four hundred while we're too easy and now if it goes down below three hundred or too tight and so goal is going to be a guidepost. So we're not just in the dark here. So he recognized the importance of gold and you know what the implications are and what it says about monetary policy even though he wasn't. A return to the gold standard, which is something he advocated at one time before he was the Fed chairman. But so he's on CNBC. Yesterday, and of course, now you know gold is over nine, thousand, nine, hundred dowse. So based on the criteria that Greenspan used to use to judge himself if he applied that same gold standard to Powell while palace failing clearly, if you're supposed to watch the price of gold as an indicator of whether or not, you're too loose or too easy and you got gold over nine, thousand, nine, hundred, it's obvious that you're too easy and Greenspan has the same opinion because when he was asked by whoever was interviewing I, forget who it was but the question he was asked was once your big concern what worries you the most and his answer was inflation. and. That's what's worrying Greenspan most and again ironically inflation is actually what Powell claims to be his biggest worry. But they're worrying about the same thing for the opposite reason is he greenspan is worried about inflation because he thinks there's too much of it. He thinks inflation is going to be too high. That's why he's so concerned about inflation he's worried about inflation running out of control. Powell on the other hand is worried about inflation being too low. So you have two people one, a former fed chairman and one the sitting fed chairman both looking at the same data points and coming to the opposite conclusion I mean the polar opposite, they both pinpoint inflation as the biggest threat. Greenspan who used to be the chairman of the Fed, who's the longest serving chairman ever, and who we can we call them the maestro. This guy is saying I'm looking at the data and I'm worried inflation is too high and it's going to get worse and Powell looking at the exact same data says I'm worried about inflation do but I think it's too low I'm word we don't have enough inflation. We need to create more. We need to go out of our way to get even more inflation because we don't have enough. So how is this possible? Right? How can a prior Fed Chairman? have. The exact opposite opinion of the current Fed chairman because what are these guys is right and one of these guys is wrong right? They can't both be right when they have opposite opinions. So one of them is going to be right and one of them's going to be wrong and my money's with Greenspan as I said, he wrote the playbook he knows how it ends palace no idea how this thing is he doesn't understand the playbook are the rules he doesn't know how the game works you know and it's funny too because Powell when Powell was initially appointed. As Fed chairman he he thought his job was to normalize interest rates. He didn't. He didn't realize that his job was just to blow another bubble. Right? He came to the Fed he approached it. Hey, I'm an outsider. You know I'm not an academic and yeah, you know we need to raise rates and he you know he's continued to raise rates. Yellen started it, but she barely raised any rates. So now this power comes along and thinks that he can keep on doing it, and so I'm gonNA normalized rates and of course, donald trump when he campaigned hey, we gotta get rid yellen she's just a lackey she's just doing political things. She's just blowing a stock market bubble and printing too much money just to try to make Obama look good and vote for me I'm Gonna I'm GonNa have you know? There are a lot of people that you say trump is a good guy. He wants to go back on a gold standard. He's for sound money. What are you kidding? Does these that he's not advocating it but he was certainly trying to throw a little meat to that wing of the Republican Party that is for sound money. So and he talked talk. But of course, he didn't walk the walk at all because as soon as Powell took office and started raising rates. What was trump saying pals a full house in idiot we gotta get rid of Powell for a while Powell was public enemy number one. Powell. Was a bigger threat to the economy then China according to. Trump of course, it didn't take long to get Powell's mine right? Right. As soon as the stock market started tank in the fourth quarter of two thousand eighteen. Pal Star playing ball cutting rates back to Qe that was twenty, one, thousand, nine, hundred he didn't call Qe. Not. They came up with a distinction without a difference to try to rationalize what they were doing. But of course, they dropped all the pretense. On Cove nineteen and they went straight to zero didn't even pass go all the way to zero. QE QE qe infinity. So, all that happened while Donald Trump was leading the cheers right more money printing more money pretty in fact, donald trump is saying rates are not low enough there up zero we need negative. So he criticizes zero percent interest rates as being too low when he's a candidate and now he's the president he says that's too high. We need to have negative rates. So Powell came into office thinking that he actually had a real job, and then once he got the job, he realized that what the job was was property bubbles that prior. Fed Chairman had helped inflate, and so that's really what he is doing and his concern is that there's not enough inflation. He's concerned about keeping these asset prices levitated maintaining this phony wealth effect because that's all they can do. They can't create legitimate economic growth. All they can do is create the illusion of growth and what Powell wants to do is preserve that illusion as long as possible even if it means things getting worse, but Greenspan isn't in office anymore and so he's a little more circumspect and I don't know maybe he's just. Trying to get into heaven at this point based on how old he is. So he's trying to be a little bit more honest although he's not really A. Publicly atoning for his own sins and kind of fessing up. To mistakes that he made and how he really has set us up for the crash that's coming. But at least he's speaking about the problem with debt and the problem with entitlements, and the fact that we're GONNA end up printing all this money to monetize that and how dangerous this is and how much is worried about now would have been nice if Greenspan did something about it when he had the opportunity back in the eighties or nineties, you know he didn't have to monetize the DOT com bubble and enable that he didn't have to do the same thing after September eleventh and inflate a bigger bubble in real estate which popped and to the two thousand eight financial. Crisis. Alan Greenspan had an opportunity as fed chairman to do the right thing. If he was worried about inflation, you should have been worried about it back then and done something about it. So now it's too little too late to come and try to criticize the card fed chairman although he doesn't come out and actually criticize them. It's kind of like an unspoken rule. Prior, Fed Chairman never criticize the guy who's got the job. But. Obviously, if you saying he's worried about inflation that is de facto criticism of Powell because Powell says, we need more inflation and he wants to create it well, obviously, Greenspan would have to say that pals doing a bad job if Greenspan is worried about inflation and palaces, we need more deflation right? So but he doesn't WANNA come right out and saving a bad job you gotta read between the lines which isn't That hard to do. But why didn't Greenspan do something when he actually had a chance of course back then it would have been difficult. He would have to take a stand like vulgar did and incur the wrath of Wall Street and. Politicians you know Volker was willing to do that. Volker, is willing to take the heat and Ronald Reagan was willing to stand by his Matt. He wasn't like Donald Trump criticizing vulgar for those high rates he stood behind him and that was one of the reasons that the policy work it had the support of the President but Greenspan was no Paul. Volcker. And you know he he just never met a bubble that he didn't want to reflate. In fact he never met a bubble that he recognized Greenspan was famous saying you can never spot a bubble in advance, which is BS. And then he said that the best thing to do is wait for bubbles to pop and then deal with them afterwards rather than trying to contain them before they pop, and of course, what was Greenspan's? Game Plan how do you deal with a bubble? This pops inflate a bigger one. What kind of ridiculous plan is that you know it's just that they didn't have the guts to rain on the parade. That's why the Federal Reserve doesn't WanNa, recognize a bubble early and prevent it from getting bigger because then they're the party pooper because when all the people are partying in the bubble, they don't know it's a bubble. They don't want the Federal Reserve to try to end the party take away the punch bowl but that's exactly what they're supposed to do of course now, the PUNCHBOWL. I mean it's not even a bowl anymore it's a swimming pool full inch and it's already spiked. Probably, all alcohol, you could probably barely even see the punch that's left in that swimming pool, but they're never going gonNA take it away. It's a permanent fixture that's all we got, and they just got to keep increasing the amount of alcohol that they pour into the swimming pool. But the interesting thing is more people don't think about this and say, wait a minute. Why is Powell's judgment any better than Greenspan's Right I mean, we think palace so smart because he's the chairman of the Federal Reserve well, at one time we thought Greenspan. Was Really Smart because he was the chair of the Fed reserve now unless you just think he's senile Alan he's not a sharp as it used to be when he was not quite as old. But if you think that he's maybe gained some additional wisdom in his older years even more experience, there's no reason to believe Powell and say that that the Greenspan is Wrong, you could just as easily say that Greenspan's got it. Right which means we're in a lot of trouble right? Because if Greenspan is right and the problem is that we have too much inflation and now you have pal saying we need even more I. GotTa make sure that we have even more inflation than the inflation that Greenspan is currently worried about right. This is a massive massive disaster in the making, which again is why I mentioned earlier you gotTa do something you got to protect yourself. Against inflation remember today's podcast is sponsored by our brand new sponsor indeed dot com. It is the number one job site in the world and indeed gets you to the very best people and it gets you there fast unlike other sites indeed gives you full control and payment flexibility over your hiring you only pay for what you need and you pause your account at any time and there's no long term contract plus indeed provides powerful tools to make your search that much easier in fact I was on their side today I'm actually in the process of signing up because we are hiring. At Your Pacific capital. 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I mean some of them just get started because humans are careless when it comes to fire but you've got some serious serious wildfires burning out there on the west coast I mean particularly California Oregon Washington state but also there's a few other states out west that are dealing with these fires but it really is kind of apocalyptic out there I mean. Right out of Mad Max movie. If you look at the color of the sky a tell you though I mean a lot of people are going to be very, very excited for twenty twenty to come to an end I mean we've had a lot of stuff going on I. Mean we we have these wildfires in California out there in fact, every couple of. Years, it seems like they're the worst wildfires ever. So they keep getting worse. Of course, you've got a lot of people that are blaming all this on global warming, but I just want to highlight again this is another headache and other major problem that we don't need because what are these fires doing? They are destroying stuff they are destroying buildings will now what? Do we have do we have to replace what we lost now I know you're GonNa get a lot of these Keynesians who think, oh, this is great news. This is good for the economy right? Natural disasters. Great because now we get to build, we get to rebuild. Well, that was great. Well, why wait for Mother Nature just burn our houses down right and Then we can. We can all get rich building back. The problem is you don't get rich just replacing what you lost your treading water, and the problem is the resources that are going to be needed to replace the houses that will use the have, but now burn down. Those are the resources that we could've used for other stuff, and now we could have. Had the other stuff in addition to our houses, and now we had a sacrifice that other stuff to rebuild the houses that we lost right and so the scene right what you see is, Oh, here's this new house that got built. What you don't see is all the things that didn't happen because the resources that would have made them happen have now been diverted. To rebuilding what we already lost. So disasters never make you richer. They always make you poor and now we're getting hit at a time where we really can't afford to be hit I mean look at what was happening lumber prices. Lumber prices were already zooming what's going to happen to him now I mean how much more lumber do we need to replace the House that we're perfectly good houses that now no longer exists, and of course, you know a lot of these houses. That had been built in areas that are prone to wildfire I mean what are the reasons that we can keep building in areas prone to natural disasters like floods and things like that is because the government subsidizes insurance and keeps the premiums lower and actually encourages people to build houses in areas where there are likely to flood burned out I mean what we need is a free market so that fewer people build in those areas and the people who do take better precautions. In their construction. And you know to guard against this, but you have the government actually underwriting risk and subsidizing people to engage in risky behavior, and so we have more of it, and so now we lose more houses and then the Garmin comes with all this disaster relief and federal aid. But of course, where does that money come from? They have to print it so Again the wildfires are gonNA destroy our stuff, and now we're GONNA have to print more money to try to replace the stuff. So we have less stuff and more paper money. Again, this is adding fuel to the inflation fire. That's the one that's really going to be ravaging the economy obviously this one I mean you're talking about people are losing their lives and property is. Being damaged so that that loss you know is is not measured in dollars and cents, but the loss, even the cost to the economy of having to rebuild those Those structures is still going to be small relative to the overall damage that the federal. Reserve and government are doing to the US economy and of course, a lot of that damage that is being done. Is the result of legislation. That was enacted nineteen years ago. Today is the nineteenth anniversary. Of September eleventh and again, it's not really an anniversary because an anniversary is something that you celebrate nine eleven is nothing to celebrate I. Mean you can commemorate, but it was nineteen years ago today September eleven two, thousand and one. that those airplanes crashed into the twin towers we had the. Crash into the Pentagon and another one was crashed in a field because the the the passengers got wise to what was going on and they sacrifice themselves to save others on the ground. But The real loss apart from the loss of life and whenever I talk about nine eleven and talk about. You know the other. Damage I never want to minimize the fact that a lot of people died. And the impact that had on on their families and their friends but. The impact on the nation in fact on the world is so much greater and I always say that the terrorist one on September eleventh. And they didn't one because they succeeded in knocking down the trade. Centers. That wasn't victory I. Mean we've replaced it. I mean we have freedom tower now i. mean the city you know we rebuilt. No the terrorist one because of what America did in response to those those those ozarks we terrorized ourselves. The worst piece of legislation that started it was the Patriot Act right Patriot Act which of course had overwhelming support Bush was the president who could be against the Patriot Act what you're not a Patriot we're at war. We're having a war on terror everybody has to be patriotic when we have a war. Right. So let's just pass this Patriot Act. Except the Patriot Act is probably the most unpatriotic act ever pass, which was why it was appropriately named. There is no truth in legislating. If there was all these politicians would be in jail, but it started the Patriot Act and that is all anti money laundering and again you know the government sold the American public on this as hey, we're gonNA fight terrorism see. The WAY WE'RE GONNA make sure that we don't have another nine eleven is we're gonNA catch terrorists where there were they bank we're GonNa, find worthies, terrorists keep their money. So the next time they try to finance and operation this, it won't happen because we're GONNA snuff out through the banking system, right? All of that was be s right? No terrorism is being stopped. By anti money laundering laws and all this stuff that came about as a result of the Patriot Act the real purpose of the Patriot. act. Was To destroy all financial privacy I, in the United States and then in the entire world. and. So the government doesn't want anybody having financial privacy because they want to know exactly where everybody's money is not because they're worried about terrorism is because they're worried about people not paying taxes. That's the threat that they're concerned about. Especially when they know they're gonNA keep raising taxes higher and higher and higher and higher taxes go the greater incentive people had to not report their income. And try to find places to hide it. So the real target of the Patriot Act wasn't terraced. It was regular citizens who may not be a hundred percent compliant when it comes to income taxes wasn't even drug dealers. I. Mean. A little bit more drug dealers terrorists I mean yes. It does probably help a little bit but that's still small compared to the real goal which is. Clamping down on on tax compliance. But also you know as governments get more and more oppressive the more they know about you the easier it is to oppress you and the easier it is to suppress any kind of uprising. You know because eventually you know you have very corrupt governments and they pass all kinds of horrible laws. But then if you oppose those laws, you become a lawbreaker, you become a quote unquote terrorists and now they can use all this power to get. You, but you're really not a terrorist right, your your freedom fighter the terrorists does the government that's terrorizing citizens. But the way they're able to preserve their power and to prevent an uprising is to have all this financial information at their fingertips about all the citizens because now they know what everybody's doing and they can put a stop to it. You know before nine eleven if you opened up a bank account I, mean you had some semblance of privacy in that bank account. I mean now you don't have any privacy at all. In fact, your banker and your broker, it totally screwed up the brokerage industry I mean my compliance costs running my broker dealer went through the roof. After the Patriot Act. Start hiring all kinds of people I mean basically made it impossible for small people even stay in the brokerage business I'd say that one of the biggest reasons so many small firms left was because of the. Costs from the Patriot Act and all that stuff. But basically, the government turned the entire financial industry into unpaid IRS agents and spies where everybody has to spy on their customers. And? Try to figure out if any of their curse customers. Have raised a red flag, and they have to file these suspicious activity reports SARS on their customer's rat them out to the government. In and most of the time that you see something that look suspicious, there's an honest explanation for it, but you're supposed to just report them to the government that's your job, and you know, and if you don't report when they audit you and they have these huge audits and they look through all of your books and records, and if they come up with a transaction that does raise a red flag in. Their mind and you didn't file a report on it. Then you're in trouble, you could be fine. You could go to jail it becomes a crime not to report up potential crime even if what you fail, the report was totally innocent. The fact that you didn't go out of your way to route that personnel to the government well, that makes you a criminal to and so realize this that your banker and your. Broker is spying on you by law they are required to spy on you, and if they see that you've done something suspicious, they're required to rat you out and they're not allowed to tell you see that's also a crime. See if you see somebody if you're a bank or a broker and you see some transactions that are a little suspicious, it's a crime to alert the client. Hey, you know we're looking at. This you know let's kind of suspicious. No, no. No, you're just supposed to keep it quiet because you're not supposed to tip them off to the fact that now they're going to, you know get investigated by the IRS, which is what's going to happen. So I mean it really destroyed. You know what was left of American freedom and of course, they just been building on it ever since bigger and bigger and bigger. And it's gone through the whole world. Now, it's not just America right. We lead the charge on destroying all the privacy when it comes to your finances all under the guise of we gotta go after the terrorists, and then we have to go out to the drug dealers. That's just a distraction. And even if you think that's a good idea to go after the terrorists of the drug dealers you never want to give the government that kind of a tool because they will use it against you right there once they have the tool, then you can't stop them. They're gonNA, use it against law abiding citizens even citizens who are compliant with these confiscatory taxes there still being run through, you know through the wringer but the cost of complying with these. Rules and regulations I mean. That's one of the reasons that it's so hard for me to do stuff at my bank, these rules and regulations why goal money had to give up on it's ambitious plan of making gold money and allowing people to use gold really as a meeting of exchange. The technology is there. It's so simple to do. It's never been easier to transact in gold in the history of the world, the only reason that we can't do it. Is because government regulation makes it. So expensive now is that a coincidence well, because obviously the government doesn't want people to have a superior alternative to their Fiat currency, and of course, they want to be able to spy on every transaction we make they want to micromanage and have more control, and they have all this control because of nine eleven. So the terrorists one we have lost so much freedom we are much less free. We have far less liberty today. Because we were attacked by terrorists, but the terrorist attack is it. What did it? What enable the terrorists to win was what we did to ourselves it was the way we reacted to their to what they did, and maybe they knew that was going to happen maybe maybe they were smart enough to realize that that was the real damage and of course, you know there are people out there that try to think, hey, maybe this maybe we planned it look. I don't think that our politicians are smart enough to pull off something like that and to cover it up. But what they are smart enough to do is take advantage of it. Right never let a good crisis go to waste and that is exactly. How they approached nine eleven they did not let this crisis go to waste and they used it to dramatically expand government to declare war on terror because it's always during wartime that are most willing to surrender their rights and liberties, and that's exactly what happened and they're doing the same thing again. With covid nineteen, we now have a war on a disease and the government is using this war as another excuse to diminish our rights, diminish our freedoms and to expand its own size where we're getting more government, we're getting more government regulations more government spending more government programs because of this war on. COVID. Nineteen. Just. Like we had the war on terror. So we're doing it all over again we're doing to ourselves in once again, just like we did more damage to ourselves than the terrorists, the government's Covid nineteen cure is far more damaging to our economy than the disease itself. I, WANNA, Finish up today's podcast though by talking about the season opener that we had last night NFL football returns are they're actually playing games. There were fans in in in the in the stadium. Far, fewer fans than normal but actually the work quite a few fans I. Guess they were social distance than I couldn't really tell you know the masks that they were wearing. But What was more interesting to me was really not what was going on on the field. During the game right and you had the defending Super Bowl Champs Kansas, city chiefs hosted the Texas Titans beat them. But the action on the field to me. Was Secondary to the action that took place on the field before the kickoff, and that was this unity where you have all of these NFL players just like you know, the the NBA players they need to show their fans in the world that they stand with black lives matter. And they stand with George Floyd. And actually. I mean I'm glad they didn't actually come out with any posters with pictures of George Floyd or anything I mean his name wasn't part of the protest but. What they were doing is they were all standing together before the game to signify their support for racial equality, racial justice and to acknowledge all the racial injustice right to acknowledge this systemic racism that we now all agree right or not all of us, but a lot of us now agreed is not only real but is the reason that there are so many problems in the African American community. It's all because of racism, and so the NFL players they wanna get together and they want to show their support because they think in. So doing they will help push America to doing what's right and finally tackling this systemic racism. Acknowledging it a Tony for the sins doing something about it. I don't know reparations whatever. But this is how we can solve the problem and course you know even these NFL players are demanding that the owners do more spend more whatever to eradicate. Racism. And it really just bothers me to see all of these. High, paid professional athletes very highly paid professional athletes. Many of them African, American complaining about Racism Right I mean obviously raises them didn't impede their success right? Look at Patrick. Mahomes who is the quarterback of the cheese? WHO's I mean? He's half Black Right I. Think His dad is black and his mother is white but you know Obama was half black and he was black. So you're half black, you're black. And he's about to become I think the highest paid. NFL Player in History I. Think he's I I heard that he's GonNa be doing a five hundred, million dollar contract I mean half a billion dollar contract to play football. Racism. Didn't prevent Patrick with. Mahomes. From getting that contract you know Patrick Mahomes is smart. He will get a goal clause. Right have a goal clause on his contract. Because we could have such massive inflation. Around his contract. I mean, it's still probably going to be a lot of money but you never know I mean you. We can have hyper inflation and he's paying playing monopoly money. So he should really tied to the price of gold, but clearly, the NFL is not racist but that doesn't stop a lot of people from somehow claiming. That the NFL is racist and one of the ways I hear people trying to claim that the NFL is racist is they point to the number of black head coaches in the NFL and right now there's three. And there are thirty two NFL teams. So a little under ten percent was at nine and a half percent almost ten percent of the coaches are black. All right I mean a little bit less than the thirteen percent of the population is black I. mean if they hired one more coach, there were four we'd pretty much be there if there were five out of thirty two, what's fifteen sixteen percent you'd be over represented but they'll say no but wait a minute you can't look at it. Relative to the population. Look at the fact that seventy percent of the NFL players are black. So if seventy percent of the players are black, well seventy percent of the coaches should be black. I guess. That's their reasoning which first of all, once you have to acknowledge that seventy percent of the players are black right there. Wait a minute I mean, how can the NFL owners be a bunch of racists if seventy percent of the players? On their teams are black. Racism isn't preventing them from hiring all these black I mean the people who should be complaining should be the white players or the Hispanic players or the Asian players I mean, they're not getting hired right why aren't they complaining in fact you know you got all these guys in the NFL that are complaining about racism you know maybe we should boycott the Games and say you know you're right. We need the NFL the look like America you have too many African. American players. That's not right. That's obviously there's obviously systemic racism in sports after all why else would there be seventy percent of the players black I mean it can't be for a logical reason it. If there's a disparity, it must be the result of systemic racism. So yeah, we need to make the NFL look like America, where are the female players? You know the transgender players why aren't there any older players I mean there's age discrimination going on why are there no people in their fifties and sixties? What about what about? People in with handicaps what do we have any handicap players there obviously discriminating against the disabled right I mean you can make these arguments, but it's amazing that they want to say that the NFL is racist because we only have ten percent of the head coaches are are black. The skillset. Is completely different. What it takes to be a good coach is not necessarily what it takes to be a good. Player on the field. Right there's different skill sets, different abilities, and you know even though seventy percent of the professional football players are black. It's a smaller percentage in in in college I think you go division one yeah. You got maybe fifty five percent of the Division One players are black but as you go to division two division three. You have more and more white players more and more Hispanic players early on high school, Right. So a lot of these guys who become coaches. They didn't play in the NFL. They weren't good enough to make it to the NFL some of them did but a lot of them you know played in college and then they went onto coaching. To the NFL or they played in high school. And a lot of these coaches they they work their way up they could start in high school then they can go to college and they're you know they worked their way up the ranks. But to say that the fact that only ten percent of the coaches are black that's somehow prove that the owners are racists. How is that possible? How can they not be racist when it comes to hiring players but they're racist when it comes to hiring coaches. The fact that there are seventy percent. Black players. Proves that they're not racist. See the coaches want to win I mean is it possible that there's an owner and NFL owner who is a racist shirt? It's possible. But what the owner of an NFL team cares more about than their racism is winning they WanNa make money and you make more money when you have a winning team. The better your record, the fans like going to games where the home team is winning right. You can sell more merchandise. When you have a good team, you get better TV spots you get more money hey, you might make it into the play offs get even more money right? These are big expensive teams and these guys got big egos right? You've got some very, very rich owners right and what do they do WanNa do they wanNA, win they wanNA beat the rich owners on the feel. This is their own version of war, right? So they don't care what color these players are they want to win. And the same thing with coaches they wanNA hire the best players for the job and it just so happens that seventy percent of them are black right it. You know it's a fair competition, right? The reason that blacks are winning these positions is because they're better than the players that they beat of whatever ethnicity they happened to be. The same applies to coaching these NFL owners are looking to hire the best coach possible and they're looking at all the coaches and they're looking at their track records and where they coach in the past and. What kind of success they've had they're trying to find a coach debts going to enable the team to win right they just spent all this money hiring all these expensive athletes. They're not gonNA blow the whole thing by hiring a second coach just because he's white, they're not gonNA pass up this great coach who happens to be black and say now you know I'm going to hire you you're black I mean I'm fine hiring black players but come draw the line coaching that is a bunch of nonsense right what what it really proves is. You can succeed if you're black as long as you're good right that's how you make it to the top and the same thing would be true in every occupation and in every profession, people always want to hire the best right. Are there some people who are racist? Yes sure. There's not that many though there you know percentage wise. But even if they are, they're going to keep quiet keep that to themselves if it costs the money right when the government comes in with the anti-discrimination laws and takes away the financial penalty for being A. Racist well, then they incentivize racism, but in a free market, then racism is a radical on its own. You know it's unfortunate because all these players now want to get together and demand that we put an end to racism and we can't do that. There's going to be racist and society. What we want is to minimize the damage that racism does but government not only does it minimize it maximizes it and the problems that are plaguing the African American community that a lot of these players are rightfully concerned about I'm not saying they're wrong. To be upset about what's happening in African American communities. It's a disaster what's happening it's a disgrace. We need to do something about it, but it's not because of racism. And all this black lives matter you know like Oh, the problem that young black men have is they're getting gunned down by white racist cops that is a bunch of nonsense. Yes. There are a lot of young black men who are getting gunned down, but they're being gunned down by other young black men that is the reality. In fact, if you look at the leading cause of death for young black males in America and these are eighteen to forty in this area is homicide. Right, more young blacks are killed by other people than are killed by themselves. Then commit suicide or who die in accidents right because when you're young right, that's how you die I mean you know you're you're not dying of disease generally because the diseases don't start hitting you until you're older. So if you're a teenager, you're in your twenties and you die an accident you know suicide is is usually the top causes but for young black males, it's murder for young white males. It's much different. I. Think it's like thirty two percent about of. The young black males who die it's a death by homicide when it comes to white males now you're three or four percent. So a much lower percentage. So for young white men getting far more likely to kill yourself. Drug overdose whatever it is or you die in an accident confident or some type of you know other event that happens and you end up dying. But for young black males, it's being murdered by other young black males at of course when you look at women than you know the numbers tank, right? So the problem isn't. For Black Women, it's the males and that's where. The problem is, but it's not because of racism blacks aren't killing other blacks because of races. But one of the reasons they are is because of the war on drugs. So. Why aren't these athletes demanding an end of the war on drugs if they really care about what's happening in the inner cities and all the violence how about ending the war on drugs 'cause drugs are winning. People are dying look at all the the overdose deaths reality is that's what killed Jordan Floyd they should be worried about all the drugs droid floyd was was taking and the fact that he oh, deed on drugs right? Not about the the policemen but they're not gonNA talk about that. They're not going to talk about the failed welfare state right? They're not going to talk about all these young black males growing up without fathers. Hey, why is that? Maybe this is one reason that they all turned. The grime is because they don't have a father figure in the House and why is that once upon a time before the welfare state? Black, children were more likely to grow up in intact families than white children had very strong families before the government welfare system destroyed the black family, and now you have all these out of wedlock births and you have all these young black males growing up and they go to crime, and of course, we glamorize and glorify crime with the war on drugs by creating so much prophets for the people that go into drugs, and then of course, we build all these roadblocks for all legitimate avenues we build in a minimum wage law build an occupational licensing laws. We make it so much harder for young black males to gain legitimate employment we kind of. Steer corral them into into drugs. I mean we shut down all their other avenues and they're only one that's left is drugs, and of course, they see their friends, the ones that are dealing drugs they have all the fancy cars they get the prettier girls and then we have the rap music or is it I mean that's not what these guys are are criticizing there is so much they do what about the failed public schools what about what we're doing to? Our African American kids in these horrible government schools that they're trapped and why aren't they ask you for Voucher System Right? Why don't they are demanding that? We actually do something to help these kids get real education's not being indoctrinated by these bureaucrats. Let them actually learn something and you know how `bout more on the job training more apprenticeship get rid of all these laws, minimum wage laws again or other laws that make it too expensive to hire these unskilled young men. And learn them teach them some job skills let them on the job. Let them let them climb up the ladder? No no we destroyed all the bottom rungs on that job ladder. They have no chance of climbing on. The only job they're going to get is is in drugs so they can be doing so much good. These are. Athletes. That are high profile guys well respected in these communities idolized. Them their role models and they want to pretend that all these problems are the result of racism. That's an excuse. That's the one way to make sure that the problems were never solved. If you just blame everything on raises them and just accept the fact that you're a victim. Well okay. Well, there's always going to be racism. So you're always GONNA be victim instead of taking. Responsibility for yourself and realizing yeah, there might be some racism out there but damage to overcome that I'm just going to work twice as hard. I'm going to overcome those stereotypes and use that to your advantage right a- and these guys could be doing that they could really be making a difference and it's so so frustrating to see them squander that opportunity just because it's easy, right? They're taking the easy way right? It looks really good Greg because these guys are making a ton of money. And I think it's so interesting that they want their owners suspend all this money. Well, how about it? They cut your salaries right that you guys got plenty of money spend that right on and you can use that to to cover reparations obviously slavery didn't hurt you guys. But. The easiest thing to do to make their fans think they care is to just stand with unity and just by this narrative hook line and sinker oh. Yeah. We stand with you. It's Sola Darren how show some guts right and actually stand up to the false narrative and try to make a real positive difference by educating some of these people to understand the truth and accept the truth along with personal responsibility and all these leaders right politicians in and the race baiters the poverty pimps, you know, shine a spotlight on them. They have that opportunity but no, they blow it because it's more convenient. It's easier to be liked if you just take the low road and just pretend you care so much about all these injustices by standing together in the middle of a feel and holding hands.

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Nobody Listens to Paula Poundstone Ep 34 - Magic Fingers, Butterfingers, and the Long Finger of the Law

Nobody Listens to Paula Poundstone

1:27:01 hr | 1 year ago

Nobody Listens to Paula Poundstone Ep 34 - Magic Fingers, Butterfingers, and the Long Finger of the Law

"The. Uh-huh. That doesn't that doesn't together. Coming to you live from the Ray horsemen studio in north Hollywood, California. It's nobody listens to Paula Poundstone. Your comedy field guide to life on tonight show a little lower, right? That's it massage buddy worker. Michael Greenspan puts our questions about massage therapy on the table. What if you can't relaxed or your massage because of fear of flatulence hill, work out all those kinks, and look it's a bird. It's a plane. No, it's just a bird. Those damn scooters are all over the place personal injury. Attorney Efren Lehrer is here to answer questions about the scourge of scooters. I'm Adam Felber the guy who's always trying to steer this show back into its lane. And now, please welcome the woman who's conversational scooter deeps crossing the yellow line, Paula Poundstone. Thank you. And thank you tonight's house band, French horn virtuoso Jacqueline Rany who the associate principal horn of the Los Angeles philharmonic. Fear the associate principal doesn't that mean? You're the disciplinarian. Yeah. That's the other that the bad horn players get sent to. Yeah. Exactly. That's how it works. Right jacqueline. And they have thrown and they have to turn their chair around and sit not facing the other performers. I gotta say Bonnie, I missed that smattering of applause decided not to applaud not to let our gets the plod this week because it's so there so few of them because we only have a handful of people even though people keep writing on Twitter saying do you have canned canned laughter? Applause for like six people. Yeah. Exactly. I think if you hear the quality of our applause and laughter you'll know that we didn't buy it off the internet. That's one generic can. So we decided that we wouldn't play because we thought it just sounded lame four people go like this is not a lot of us in this room. Also, very small room. I think some weeks in we should try the canned laughter and applause make it sound like there's audience of thousands here. Yeah. Yeah. Or just put pop rocks in our mouth yet. I would do it. Okay. So hold on. I. This is not canned balloon animal making I am making. It's not even balloon animals. Right now, I am beginning on probably the whole show to do it. But I am making an entire family. Looking at the Grand Canyon. You're it's just a balloon manage to twist twice done nothing to. I'm not done. Well, yeah. But when it's done it's going to look like. Takes years does. But you know, it's going to happen Pala lead balloon is going to pop point during this show. Yes. It was worry. Now, you're blowing up another one. You know, we had a hobby. You could do during the show that didn't involve you blowing into something instead of talking. Oh, yeah, I can talk. So what do we what do? I know what I was going talk talk about something. I watch on Twitter. Someone wrote me that their two year old. She put in parentheses demanded that they listen to nobody listens to Paula pounds two year old a two year old. I was so flattered. Wow. Yeah. L let me just say, I don't know if this will really work first of all, I don't even know the two year old's name. But if you're listening, thank you so much, and I don't know how well this will play because it's just audio but peekaboo. I'm not sure that's going to play really. Well. But they all love infants to your. They love the peekaboo peekaboo. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. You know, when you ask a kid who's to say, how old you and they go they'll go like I two. And so I wanna say that kid. I fifty nine. For that very relatable. Guess love me love me. So what what do you think? Why do you think that your likes us? You know, what my guess would be a either her parents are giving her or him. I don't know sugary snacks while they listen that could be one reason. Right. Yeah. Or when I was a kid I loved the sounds of my parents laughter. Right. And so it could just be the kid likes that the parents are laughing, and they they join in or could be there is if I like the sound of parental after knows get along as they weren't laughing at my expense. Yeah. Yeah. A frequent about safe for me that happened a lot too. But yeah, I think it could be it could be that. Or could just be an extremely bright child. Right. Reckoning? Acting than than most two year olds. Now goes to the parents now and says, hey, those pipes blocked, you know, you should be pouring hot water down them or saying, you know, if you're thinking of getting your penis pierced. I know. Yeah. If you're going to be. So many things. It's hard to have to remove dad. Remember that? A lot of time. If it can be painless nowadays, dad. Yeah. Exactly. So it could be a very very right to your peak. So that's good news for this week. But there's there was some gosh. I know you were outrage we had our little on the phone production meeting yesterday. You were apoplectic. Yeah. No. This is a very very sad thing. So I was in Santa Cruz, California. And by the way, thank you Santa Cruz in Santa Cruz, California. I went to CVS to get Hareb junk and many interesting details these are important. I'm creating I'm creative pitch. There's a two year old that likes me. I'm creating a picture. You don't know that that two year old might just like me instead. Yeah. Well, you're here every show and the two year old may have picked up on that or some other things that might be good about me. One of these things is not like the other. Who? All right. So I went to and wasn't my goal when I went there. But I did find a bag of butterfinger bites but are one of my favorite things in the world. Because when you have the bite you're getting the crispy crunchy nougat, but which is not new it is not even the people what? But when you bite into it the problem with the bigger bar, even the fun size, which also like is that it's crunchy. And so it kind of falls all over the place really peanut stuff explodes precisely whereas the bite. You don't you? Don't find it and have us put the whole thing in your mouth. It's like tablet happens within the confines of your mouth decisely have that protection already there. So you painted a picture with words here? Do you want to know whether using self serve checkout or did you go to the lady? No, I went to late you have a CVS card Pala. I don't have a card. There. We didn't have CVS car. I didn't have CVS trying to out of the road was it on north or the south. I think we've pulled in from the right? I'm trying to remember what was on the inquirer was there by the register. Batboy again, I think Kim Kerr dash, Ian, something with her. All right. So I by the butterfinger bites and you have to keep in mind that I was very excited. Very happy. I get in the car guy picked me up at the airport and drove me, and I said all the butterfinger bites. I was so happy now open them up and I start eating them, and they taste awful awful awful. And you love Butterfield love butter fingers. And so I start to think maybe I have the flu because you know, when you have the flu and eat stuff doesn't taste terrible. Yeah. So I thought well, maybe I'm getting sick. Maybe you're dead. I didn't feel bad. And then I looked at the bag as if I was questioning everything about my whole reality. I looked at the bag and in the upper corner worthy words, improved recipe. Oh, no. Every you know what we did today? Did I have nothing to live for now? Wow. All right. Oh, you don't listen for a second. What are you going to say? I want the two year old to fill a sense of hope. There's a lot the risen something to you. Yes. And want to just send this week. I'm upset because I found out butterfinger change their recipe. That's what I said. You could've said that ten minutes ago by points. Exactly. What I said, oh, we had a tone poem about CVS. Yeah. Get a parking spot. Le-? Let me ask you something. So if if and thank goodness, you weren't the person who wrote to kill a Mockingbird. But if there were what what what would you just like, there's a lot of unfairness towards black people. Let's move on. That's not. No, no. But I'm gonna I'm gonna go on a limb here and say your story about buying a bag butterfinger is not exactly to kill him. Ver-? You're not per giving on the same. Okay. All right. All right. Let me point icing. So yes. I am going to have to give you that. And I hate to let let let's move on. So this high chains arrest rates, no moving on. That's my point. There's nothing to live for anymore that we've looked into it a little bit. Thanks to our crack research staff, and food and wine magazine reports that they've changed the recipe there's a new chocolate tear at the helm of the butter fingers people. It's Harare the original butterfinger made its debut in nineteen Twenty-three. But as of twenty eighteen it's owned by Ferrara in American candy company. They're using a different type of peanut US grow jumbo peanuts. And more cocoa those jumbo peanuts for more quote uniform, and well rounded Roques I hate the uniform and well rounded road, I can tell the cocoa in the chocolate coating has been upgraded as has the amount of milk. So it might be an upgrade it's not enough. Upgrade the goal of a smoother less gritty mouth feel. I enjoy feel. I bet I bet the bars themselves. Don't don't explode as much if it has a smoother mouth Bill now they do that wasn't taking care of. It was just fell. Oh apart to the same degree. It was just the taste was horrible business. Insider magazine half a dozen taste testers, including one butterfinger hater where unanimous the new core elevates the candy to new heights. You know, it was elevate. No, it's terrible. And food and wine magazine says the famous crispy crunchy interiors still flaky but boats are more natural tasting roasted peanut flavor. Also, a richer aftertaste that lingers on roof of the mouth Bala. No, I had to segue my mouth. That's how bad it was raped it. I had to go to an oral surgeon and have that flavor. Remove from the roof of my mouth. Where's the word? There was a word. I saw in here somewhere. It said that it's not as cloying Lee. Sweet. And I love cloying sweep you always. That's exactly what Hummel collection alone tells me that. I mean who nobody plates I have. I have Franklin mint plates. I'm very proud of that you must have stowed away somewhere. So the cats cannot come around the hanging on the walls it can ever noticed otherwise p right, right? Yeah. I love clothing, the idea that you were taking a butterfinger making it not as sweet like who is that playing to. I don't think they're saying not as much as not as pointingly. Sweet no. They said not a sweep it's repeated throughout the reviews by business insider, and food and wine magazine and hooted butterfinger blow to get those reviews. Would be Mr. Ferrara. I believe it did the blowing butter for themselves that would be just pucker Ferrara. They used to call Ferrara Ferrara you've brought in. You're not going to take the word of those magazines. Apparently you've brought in the old butter fingers and anew improve recipe butter fingers for us to taste. Yeah. I decided since people weren't gonna be applauding that their hands would be well rested. Gonna have as many of us as can go in on a bag of each kind. They were the big ones, but I cut them up because no one's going to eat a whole new improved flavor. Here's what we're gonna do are going to start with you. Okay. Well, I already know. Well, you're ready. No. But let's start with you now, which which bag has the which has a new C. I'm not telling you, that's the whole point. I was going to administer this test to you know, I know already you administer the test. I'm in ministering the tests to you. This is exactly the argument. I had with Wendell before I left the house, which was a better idea. No, he said that I had to do it. I said what I know already. Okay. But maybe you don't I do. I like playing butterfinger take one of those these. I'll right. So Adam Felber who's here every show just took do things besides taking one from each of the bags. They are not identifiable in any way. Ladies and gentlemen. I think I can tell just by looking all right sui off shit, some of the bunny burns, do, you know, which one do, you know, which one I have where you're gonna lose track of who's holding? What if you do at this point? Okay. Which ones I have where. Okay. No of these two. Okay. You don't know. Which is when you take that one. That was the first thing. Okay. So wait a minute. Pose to you. Yeah. For everything have I ruined every. Yes. Hand to be one that you know, what it is. Okay. Okay. So you're going to know which one I'm eating. Okay. This one. Okay. I'm handing chain. Bonnie stop talking. Adam candy will someone's talking when he eats dinner with his family? It's a loan in a quarter. Stacey okay. All right. Okay. Now, I'm giving you the other one. Okay. Forget six Mr. science. Yes, it's weird that I would want you to know which ones in the taste says you're giving me go ahead. Go ahead. He's having the second one as in gentlemen. Got the exact same look on his face for both guys. Not connoisseur. I like this one better the second one. You gave me exactly. And that's the original that was their Reginald. Okay. All right. Bye. Do you remember which came from which this? This. The first eight and I like this one better the second sequinned exactly this. This is just terrible audio radio Bonnie's might that's where I am talking to producer. Captain, Craig Bonnie, burn. So. It's too late, buddy. Already captain crinkle. You told me that I preferred these. Babe was little and he said, I don't wanna be babe. They said it's too late. The one that you said you liked was the real butterfinger absolute ju for two to better. Okay. All right. Well, we haven't even introduced our guests introduced I think maybe as we bring our guests Goodyear show. Funny. You want to tell everybody what's happening here bunny Burns's under the impression that it is going to be interesting to our listeners to listen to people off Mike who they've never met taste jock lit. Well. How do you say? That's nothing. That's not. No. We're not doing that. Funny. Dumb idea. It's not a two year olds love it. No. They don't. Right out of that two year old crying because his daddy. That's why our two year old. Demographic is soaring soaring. Honestly, I I can't go to one bit. I go into Gymboree. I fucked. Good. Yeah. Yeah. Kids are your old legs are show and two year old might like me. That's ridiculous. Saudi stop talking. So we all know easy idea. Grazie idea two year old listening, Adam Felber, that's ridiculous. Everything. That's ridiculous at all. It is your kids like me. I'm sure they do. All right. So where are we? Okay. So we'll have our guests. Do our taste test later on in that make for slightly better. Sick. So far. I've I'm right, by the way. They knew improved sucks. Right. Okay. So that's our taste doesn't butter fingers. We've got a taste test of this podcast coming up the maximum fund. Pledge drive all my God. I've got butterfinger all over my mouth, it's happening in March eighteenth through March twenty ninth. And if you pledge five dollars an up, you'll have access to our bonus content. God. Yeah, we're making a bonus episode this very evening later tonight. But only people who pledge that five dollars will be we'll have access to the bonus content. Wanna let people know something what we're doing? For the bonus episode is we've asked you are fans on Facebook and Twitter and stuff on social media's to ask questions things you've always wondered about our show, and we're going to REVEAL OUR secrets to your questions on the bonus only on a bone. It's see how we if you were to see that. Then what what does that think? Call when you pull a lever the levers. The levers of power power how if you donate. So by the way, when we pledge five dollars, I believe is five dollars per month. It's not just five dollars. That's right. Once you great at one five dollar. It's coming out of the year. Fun and us that's keeping us on the air. Exactly. Because we, you know, we this is how we manage to make the show butter fingers don't by themselves. Well precisely. And by okay. There's something else that you get with the this is with the ten dollar. If you go to ten dollar maximum fund donation get an exclusive nobody wants to Paula Poundstone pin that says he's not here. Yeah. And longtime fans will know that he's not here is a reference to survivalist Thomas Coyne. Who who now legendarily on the third episode of our show didn't survive long enough to make it to the studio. He just never showed ever showed and attempted to reach him afterwards. And he's never contacted us. So we've assumed that he was killed out on maranda street. We've tried every kind of social networking we've tried to texted. He's not there. So on our Facebook page, we have an interactive map and we've asked listeners to look for Thomas coin. And when they don't find him somewhere, they go onto the map and they post where they didn't find him. And so our our he's not here. Pin is in the shape that you might find on the web. Yeah. Right. It's in the shape of a map pin on the interactive map. And I say that that finding Thomas coin by identifying places where he is not at that moment. At is not a good circle. That's why two year old listeners. Don't like you that much because I'm negative about things that medical thing very negative very very negative in that one regard for sure, but anyway, depend us a he's not here. And I do think it's attractive, and we pour our hearts into the show, and we give it away for free. And this is your chance to give back to the show. It's a show you love you give back whatever amount works for you. Without your contributions. We can still do the show but Bonnie won't be able to afford shit too. Crinkle during the taping. So high quality of the show is dependent. I wanna point out that while you were telling me that story about Thomas coin just now I was distracted because captain crinkle put her phone on vibrate. And it went off in her pocket which was pressed up against the chair. I didn't know what that noise his phone. Yeah. Just it just happening over well tonight. She's committed I have to say we I went to tape. So Adam goes, okay. Everybody quiet. We're going to begin taping and bunny leaned over in her chair, and it made a creaking sound. No. So she's really expanding out of just crinkle ING. She's an vibrates and creeks. But that costs money, ladies and gentlemen. That's why we're asking. And now also coming up next neuro muscular massage, therapists, Michael Greenspan is here and scooter legal liability expert, Catherine layer is also here, and that's all coming up after we cleanser pallets of new and improved butterfinger bars. And your back. Now that you've told me your first experience with massage happened back in San Francisco, and San Francisco someone gave me a gift certificate for the kabuki hot springs. I had never been there before. But I you stopped off at a drugstore to buy candy know that a different story entirely. Okay. So I was very nervous about it. Because I knew it involved bodies and nicotine. So I was on edge to begin with now. And I talked to my friend Jonathan cats on the phone, and he'd stirred the pot. He tried to make me more on edge and it worked. So now, I drive to the place that cookbook brings in San Francisco. It was a private hot tub and massage I go Japanese woman takes me in Japanese American woman, and she takes me into the place. She's going to be the masseuse. And I don't know if she spoke English if she did she didn't speak to me for the most part. A lot of gesturing and that sort of thing. So she tells me to get undressed or indicates she then walks me into this hot tub and the tub literally doesn't have jets or anything. It's just a. Rectangle tile tub of very very hot water. And I sit in there for a while. And then get out of intially. She comes. He tells me to go onto the lie down on the SaaS table. Thank you massage table. She puts a sheet of mates there. Were you hiding in the closet because it's weird? How you know? This almost carved one out of the air before you do a lot of hand gestures when I talked to love that. All right. So I'm laying down, and then she would very discreetly leave the room sort of in-between h section of this procedure. So she leaves the room on Lang down on the massage table does sheet over me, right? She comes back into the room with a long metal with a hook on the end. And I almost levitated off that table because I thought there was something that they did to you with a long metal pole with Holcombe. Then I thought she like wacky on the spine with or God forbid something else and she passed me into the room with the hot tub and use the long. Metropole the hook to remove stopper from the tub. Wow. That's what it was. That would've alarmed me more than her trying to use it on me. And establishment like that doesn't even have a button or lever that you can pull the remove stopper. God knows it they're fly by night organization. No, no. Very known. It's not it's not, but you have to remove that water. Otherwise, so many many of us other ways of removing water from from tubs. Let's spoon like one snow tie. You have one on your on your bathtub like a little thing that you could flick. I don't have that same kind of either way my point is. I've been a little leery. I did go through massage phase for a while where. And I'm fascinated by them. And I was fortunate in that when when Gina and I were back when we were living in New York around the time, we got married we had a friend who was working with genie. But also putting herself through massage school and she needed to all these different techniques. Yeah. Like like one week. It was Swedish did we moved onto tissue? And she to which was crazy interesting. And that was the best couple of months of my life. Yeah. Yeah. Really great shot. Sue Swedish, all this is so confusing. We have somebody's gonna help us work these kinks out. Thank goodness. Next guest would never use a metal pole with a hook unless he had a kind of retro tub. Let's find out how therapeutic can be. Michael Green's van the owner of massage revolution, the back, neck pain, relief center in Manhattan Beach, California. He's been practicing and teaching various forms of massage for over twenty seven years. He say's welcome. I go Greenspan, Mike. Now, you notice we had a smattering of applause smattering of PLA, and I thought that was even can't they can't help we should just let people applaud introduce somebody and people feel like we should apply. We're going to have to over overrule wreck Marshall burns and crinkle. Yeah. Captain crandall. Yes, she's okay with her making any sound in the world. But people applaud Michael Greenspan from the back and neck pain relief center in Manhattan beach. Let me ask you something. Would you feel more comfortable during this conversation? If Ataman I made intermittent moaning noises feel more comfortable Scher just. Yeah. Yeah. I feel at home. Good point right there. Yeah. All right. So does a good massage require pain is that necessary. No, good massage does not require paying a good therapist will work within your comfort level. Okay. Yeah. My problem would be that you have to tell them what your comfort level is. I don't talk. Well when I'm naked. Yeah. I can't do it. Like, I could tell somebody else that I didn't like something that you did. But I'm not very comfortable telling you one time. Do you have like a stuffed animal that Pollock and talk to? Complainer, but I'm not a direct complainer, which I realize is a big flaw about one time. A pony was standing on my foot, and I just waited for him to move. Really? Yeah. You just stand on your book. Did I just didn't feel comfortable saying, you know, you're on my foot trigger? Yeah. At direct. So anyway, I did use to get massages for a while when I lived in San Francisco, but what happened with the parking one sentence out so far, and we're gonna get another one before this interview is over go on did you so you answered the question of whether or not paying I had to drive to the place and the stress of finding a parking place was so much by the time. I got to massage I was already more stressed than I was before I left my house. Does it really unstress you? These massages massage can really take away a lot of str-. It's really depends on the therapists and the intention and the type of massage right? And it also depends on I would say how much stress you have. I mean, it could get rid of a lot of stress you could feel like you brand new after a good session. Like your brand new. You can really get rid of you can iron out a lot of stress from a massage from a high quality massage. You have. Do you have? That's the goal of some massages. Right. The goal of under massages to help people genuine physical problems. Right. Exactly. So there's different intentions. You could be increased circulation could be lower blood pressure. Get out of pain. It could be to lower people's blood pressure. Yeah. Yeah. Relax Asian response. Yeah. How do you do? So how do you do that? Look burns to leave the room. What kind of what kind of massage? Do you have to have to lower your blood presh- that would be more of a relaxation? That'd be more of a relaxation more than like a pain relief type of massage. That's like more trigger point based. You know, when my blood pressure goes up is when they put that cuff on you and still going. That makes perfect. That's the thing. I've heard from doctors at that thing the mini put the cuff on them. You might have to do it again. Wait till after the massage. So so they can be relaxing, these massages. I don't know if mine have ever exactly been for one thing. I just I feel stressed out by the experience itself for one thing. Just so fear having gas during the massage. Yeah. That i'm. You're holding it in tight tight as a result of things that you worry about it. Yeah. I mean, that's it's actually quite common. Actually, a lot of people. I want when people relaxed they have gas go when you relax relax, goodness edge, all the time. So when they fall asleep. So you know, I dearly when it's not when you're working on their gluts and they fought in your face. Know, right. It's when you're more like on the feet, but a therapist whose professional will definitely understand what I was ready. Professional point. Maybe we'll maybe, you know, just make some made maybe judge judge. That's what I hear. Yeah. So yeah, I fear that kind of judgment. But yeah, something about shiatsu and also related things, which is fascinated me that you could find a place on my on my palm or my foot that made me feel something very specific in my abdomen or something. Is that a is that a thing where my imagining that can you touch parts of somebody's body to fix other parts of their body. Totally. Yeah. That would be more western science. Let's say with what's called refer western is when they right over you with the horse. Two two. Westerns when John Wayne does. More more trigger point base. So if you get a massage let's have a lot of headaches. Okay. Okay. Let's say you do. I don't genetics. I don't heading. Sure. Okay. Of course. Where do you get your headaches behind your eye behind your ear behind your head like where do you get your headaches? Are they trying to be in different spots are sort of behind my eyes is right? So there's actually certain little muscles that radiate pain behind your eyes and certain little muscles that radiate pain, not behind your eyes behind your head. And then they're starting little muscles that radiate pain down your arm, and it has nothing to do with the nerve it has to do with muscles that radiate pain to other parts of your body. If you wanted to get rid of paula's behind the is pain sacree where would you go on her body, you go to spleens capitalists or subsidies campus where? I weren't. I worked the Bijou theatre spleen his capital. Great around fantastic. His cabinet. I come over there and show you if my arm was Oregon spleen east capita. Gimme a roundabout where it is right on the side, your neck and your neck. It's Nick it's under, but you have eight muscles in your neck, this particular muscle, radiates pain right into your eye. So that would be whereby releasing that muscle here in your neck, releasing the headache so mistake when they get poked in the eye of grabbing their I instead, they scrub the side of their neck. I don't. Mike Lancer wants more urgent care. One's more chronic right? Yeah. Yeah. Good point. This is just what you believe in to like if you think you know, like what we're like placebos. Is there any sort of placebo mentality to massages? Do you think I imagined? So there's a lot of different types of massage. Right. And then there's then there's definitely evidence base bodywork. Here's evidence base. And then there is eastern medicine. That's been around ten thousand years to sell evidence to evidence by science right to necessarily really prove sue and acupunctures, come a long way where they've gotten science behind it. But things like shiatsu, they don't have a lot of science, but they've been around for five thousand years, right? So puncher has come a long way. I'd like to see them get rid of the needles. Yeah. Well, they've come a long way. Really be vacuum last in improving actu- accurate hat acupuncture wants to. Yeah. It didn't do the thing supposed to do for me. No. But it did cause pain in very little specific specific areas on my body. Yeah. Would you say pinprick spots where they put the needles? Exactly. Yeah. Yeah. I could see that being a problem with somebody just going to ask you. Yeah. When I was going through my massage phase, I sometimes would go to like spa places. What the hell is thinking. I can't even imagine myself in a spot place now, but I did for a little while try to be a different person, and they were trying to be somebody. So not me, but the do stuff like lay down naked and they'd go like they put like an avocado seed on the smaller back like that was supposed to do something. There was a lot of hokum invokamet quackery. I wanna talk to Michael we want to ask you about quackery prevalent in the massage community, and what you do into combat the hawk and the Rackham and the quantum. Yeah. Wow. And where's my body is my hocus quack? That's a good. You know, there is a lot of different variety spa treatments or not evidence base. There are evidence base massage treatments to get you out of pain. But you know, putting you on your eyes and all the KADO on your back, and you know, that's just fluff. And that's like that's luxury not necessity. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Kristal cover somebody's what about girlfriend once thought that she was really good at that. And I had to subject myself to just like having rocks, buddy. Yeah. A lot of you know, my wife is a body worker to and she loves crystal therapy. Reliable me personally. I really don't know. I don't know. So she thinks she's healed with what she thinks. She's the ideal. Crystal therapy is that there's energy in different vibrations in crystals, depending on the crystal. So there's energy in vibrations. And the body is energy and vibrations. What about cellphones if I put myself on a five? Am I gonna get energy? Maybe is there a crystal in the cell phone. Oh, yes. Well, there's a liquid crystal display both. Both close enough. So what did you tell what is the difference between sw what a Swedish massage that's done with a small meatballs. Is it? Not. Right. A little on the back. Learn Swedish massage with very handy black and white drawings. But you through the right words, you you learn Swedish massage with very relaxing type strokes. That's really what it is. It's your classic TV oil massage relax -ation watching a movie and the the Hollywood producer is getting a massage. He's probably getting Swedish Mahalia Swedish unless you see somebody getting hurt maybe more of a deep tissue. Let's say. Just not a good practitioner. It's did you ever see the I love Lucy when they go to Hollywood, and they go to Grauman's, and they try to steal. They steal the John Wayne footprint from Grauman's, and they break it. And now they're trying to get John Wayne to make new footprints and Lucy long story is how this happens, but she ends up having to pretend that he's she is his masseuse. Oh, do you. Remember that this came around to a relevant place. That's fantastic. So how would you answer that to Michael did you ever see that? I thought I did. You were falling along the story. Yeah. Yeah. Saggio? What happened is episode that is relevant to massage. I mean like. Because this happened his back slide, and she I she starts to do it. And he's doesn't see her. He's got his head down. He doesn't see her yet. John wayne. And and so she starts out like really not wanting to do this. And she starts kind of gently massaging and he's like, oh, come on George put puts a muzzle into it. And then she starts slapping them. And I. Lord of the training film for you should have been. We're gonna stop the tape. And let you go home and watch this episode of I love Lucy. Okay. And come back and your assessment as to whether that was good or bad massage. I'm willing willing. That sounds like a good idea to me. Yeah. No. That's not true now. So are there places? Anything in the brain that can be affected by massage. Yeah. There is that with the funniest. A mad. Scientist look on my face, right? Then it's such an it's such a long you can affect the brain the trigger points that caused pain. Those are in your nervous system in your brain that Goto your entire nervous system causing pain and the rest of your body. So there's bodywork that's evidence based trigger point they're happy that will affect the brain. And then hence affect your pain. There's also cranial sacred that affects the cranial plates in your head. So what does that mean? Crazy sacred circle works on the rhythm Mary to one. Acquaint sacred. Relations. No, I don't know what that means. Sometimes says case. Okay. So. Radio sacred means what they're working the cranium and the sacred to balance them out and the ideas of balances out the rhythm cranial is in the head. What's go- sacred? What does that say, what's your sacred say the triangle bone by your butt trying you pull this triangle bone, you tell by your pelvis, it's not on the backside. Yes, it's on the backside in the back say, oh, that's where the Kadassi. Looks like this Makoto thing was evidence based. This makes all the sense in the world to me, go out and guy at crystal. So you do you do it thing rubbing the skull. And then you move down to the sacred in back up and down again. It's also known as the Butthead massage, right? The massage. It's more. It's more holding. We're static got ethically holding. Oh, I see holding. What they do is. They I am not a cranial sacred therapist. Okay. No. They hold. They hold rain. They hold your cranial plates. And they feel the rhythm of your. An energetic rhythm between your cranium and your sacred to clear up the the the energy patterns the energy lines. So it's a way of rebalancing the cranium and the sacred this can help with pain can help pain migraines. People who have a lot of different head traumas. Yeah. Physical traumas the cranial you can shift and they're actually osteo pass. Actually, doctors are no how to work on the cranial bones because they can move. They can shift. Yeah. That's not so much masseur. That's like a body worker. That's a little different. You know, massage therapist isn't going to be shifting your cranial plates around until if I go to massage therapists and they start to shift my cranial plates around. I'll know that they are out of their league. Zach go to one of those off brand massage therapist, leave an extra twenty one who takes out say to myself. Okay. This is not a massage. You're either pulling out a stopper with that or I'm leaving, wait. Yeah. Exactly. Is there anything involving massage that can help with memory MOS looking for something help with my memory has concerns about her memory? That's a really good something today. Already asked you that. I mentioned. Agean? I imagine a lot of memory can be can be stressing a lot of memory fatigue can be stress induced. So you can relax an iron those out the more you can release things like traumas, the more you can release like, you know, mentally physically emotionally, the more. You're going to clear up your memory. I imagine that sounds like a Strauss. But yeah, maybe I may have to go back for this massage. Now, you you a lot of stress in your life. I have a lot of stress. So the Swedish massage is the more gentle relaxed kind and then the shots who is what shots his finger pressure. That's what it means fingerprinting pressure, usually clothed, and it's a Japanese form of body work in Chinese form medicine. Traditionally sometimes they'll say like they found. Like a penny. No, they found a knot in. Your muscles is such a thing. Really exists. Yeah. There's landmine knots. Call trigger points land-mine knives. Not like that have not. And so and so they they they smushed them with their thumb or something. So that would be the landmine knots would be more trigger point western base eastern base would be more shiatsu clearing up the meridians, which is what Accu puncture does with needles, but shiatsu does with finger. So it's non needle base. So they've they go to the places where they believe that certain parts of your body control from. Yeah. Okay. Exactly. And they clear blockages energy blockages. They call it Meridian's Meridian's energy thing is that. It always sounds kind of. Woo to me is it like evidence based this energy thing. I think it's more. You know, I think it's more faith-based and trust. And I don't know how much science is actually. Discovered the energy base. Many people do believe in it. Right. That's that acupunctures had some science you punchers science in more than just releasing dodging opiates, right feel-good. They actually have science for opiates those opiates that don't seem to one gender or the other. That'd be drudge info. Oh. Right. So so more like. Like acupuncture showing the help a lot with like internal medicine. There's a lot of there's a lot of science for internal medicine. Yeah. With that. So stabby stuff I just feel like I always end up with somebody. That's a little bit on the wou-wou side. You know, how can go in. There's a lot of batik, and they're playing a didgeridoo, and you just find it hard to understand how that could help their way that a listener out there Apolo could find a massage therapist who's not going to do, aromatherapy and energy based and avocados on her butt and stuff like that. Yeah. That is that is our mission where where we are. It's more evidence based body worker. So I suggest that wherever you are. If you're looking for less Wu, and you want more evidence base, you wanna find someone who's more of a body worker. Somebody who does more soft tissue therapy muscle therapy, namely things like trigger point based neuro muscular base, you've heard a raw Fink possibly or mile Fazul release. All those are more evidence based soft tissue. What you do? Yeah. That's what we do. Yeah. And those are more muscle work like muscle and saw tissue. It's less. Somebody just holding your head saying I'm just going to clear up your energy, which there's a market for. That's not for somebody who wants more more, physical based bodywork. Yeah. So you go in. The client comes in you, shake their hand, you say, hi, Michael. And then their legs collapsed because it's just where you push. It's you just squeeze their hand. And then turn Jennings relaxed degrade people instantly right away. Yeah. Somebody keep in mind. Now, Michael before before we go, we do want you to do but finger taste test for reasons, which I still don't understand. So Paula because I'm proving that butter fingers moving in the wrong direction right now. I get that. All right. Okay. So you're gonna handle handing Michael butter fingers a blind taste test. He knows his finger. He does not know if it's the improved flavor butterfinger or the good kind. How's that Michael? Now that you're tasting it. Sweet good sweet good about her finger. Okay. It's very much like now cleanse your pallet. If you want some water, or if you have any you're out of water, lavar, these Rigas Buckler 'cause this this is not really science bring the store bay. I've forgot to bring the you're gonna hand that one over to my okay now, I'm handing you Mike on handing you the second supplying taste test is not identified in any way. The Chris pretty crunchy nougat apart. Now, Michael question is which one do you like better is going back for seconds seconds bowl? Yes. I like the second one the second one better follow. What was it? Oh, no. It's the new groove butterfinger. Let's Cloyne, Michael. A little. I just like it. You don't have an adjective for it. Into him. It stripped his adjectives didn't strip stripped his Agean. It's stripped his goddamn the second one the one. He liked better created less residue on the table as well. When he put that first one down just kind of like exploded onto the table in a peanut. Crispy, crunchy, crispy, the what have what was the second with? They say about the nuts and the second one. Say they were uniform or something where we were in the studio. I think I'm more uniform mouth feel. Yeah. Uniform mouth field. Did you note or natural? Feel of the rustic peanut flavor. I did notice that. Yeah. If I hadn't have said it he wouldn't have noticed it because it's stripped his adjectives from them. That's what it did. It didn't. That's why I'm not gonna eat those new kind because well almost have to take what action we think is necessary to affect change in this world. I'm not gonna eat those Newcomb because I'll be here on nobody listens to Paul Poundstone eating anything, but butter I won't have any adjectives. That's an important part of this show. Sure is two year olds loves this show. We'll make Michael thank you so much. It is by the way to one the good. So far too. Good butterfinger is two to one right now. Winning right now. Yeah. All right. Well, thank you. Michael Greenspan for relaxing are muscular anxiety about bodywork Paula now that you're an expert on this. What advice can you give our listeners about massage house? Been Jacqueline rainy. Could I have a little background music for my massage summary? Beautiful. The body is like the house in the three stooges short applying. We show go after the stooges work on the plumbing. When the cook turned on the switch light water came out of the lamp, there are parts that can be massaged that affected other parts. For example. The spleen cabinets on the side of the neck shoots pain into the. I they're connected, which is why if you get hit in the neck with a poison darn from a blow gun you blink. Sweetest massage which is almost impossible to say is about relaxation the shot. Sue massage involves pressure two year old really we pressure. If you want a science based massage you might want to go to a body worker, if you go to massage room, and you are surrounded by group of people in grass, Kurtz, holding hands and the practitioner begins preparing a seaweed dish on woodfired walk. It might not be a science based approach. Right. Michael Greenspan is the owner of massage revolution the back and neck pain relief center in Manhattan Beach, California. Thank you, Michael. All right. When we come back. The scooter revolution is here. I never loved that Cantu. There are birds flying down streets everywhere. There ought to be a law. But there isn't attorney Catherine Lehrer tells us how to navigate the scooter craze that's coming up next. The cat of the week is Pluto from Ellensburg, Pennsylvania. released. Okay. We're back. Now, Paula this is exciting. I understand that you have a contest at you've come up with for our listeners. And it's a doozy. Isn't it? Oh, this is very exciting. I am offering a fresh par of hotel soap to the listener who comes up with the best short sentence or two to describe our podcast. Wow. That's amazing. You go to do a lot of gigs on the tremendous amount of travel and fresh hotel. So you know, I go there's a wide variety of soaps offered now at these hotel collecting them. I will now. Okay. Great. What I'm going to suggest is that you bring them here on a weekly basis and give them to Tony Anita hall. So that we can line them up and photograph and people can actually choose winds hotel soaps elect, the hotel so Lecter can I can I wonder idea? Well, the other thing we can do is taste tests with the soap, don't less less exciting that so you could bite into one bar of soap and tell me if it's cloying. Yeah. I'm gonna get. It's almost always. But let's talk about this description. We wanna really accurate description of our show. I do a lot of interviews. And they'll say like, oh, I understood you have a bud cast like we have to say to everybody nowadays because everyone has a podcast, but and then go. Yeah. What's it like? And I kinda which isn't really good interview stuff. I like. Felber's there. Yeah. Okay. So this is actually great what I like about. This is that it's really not gonna help us if you right in your description that Adam Felber's on every show because that's not really exciting description telling her interviewer, so at least three of them. So if you include. Every. All right. So there I'm looking for a couple of good sinked sentences that you can tell interviewers around the country when he ask you. What's this podcast of yours precisely excellent now if you have a couple of sentences that describe our podcast you can Email us at nobody listens to Paul Poundstone at g mail dot com. And if you wanna find out where Paul is going to be in person, and where she got her find collection of soaps, keep listening. I'm going to be in Denver may third at the paramount theatre and in Seattle on may tenth at the Moore theatre. Denver has some great soaps to all of your dates are available at Paula Poundstone dot com. That's where you can also get his book, the totally unscientific study of the search for human happiness and the other one there's nothing in this book that I meant to say as well as performance ED's. That is correct people go from all over the world to bathe in Denver because of the hotel also on my website. You can get my remarkably software poly blend t shirt with a self portrait on the left breast. A memorable quote on the back. Yes rate t-shirt, it's a tripod. It's remarkable as they say in the industry Polly bunch thing that would be Tripolitania made that t-shirt out of three parrots. Known. Spend Jacqueline rainy. This is just elevating our tone tonight. You live in Santa Monica. Right. I do and that is ground zero for the scooter invasion. That's correct. Yes. Now, you want to scooter yourself one of those electric scooter, I do own electric scooter, and I use it for short trips in the Santa Monica area. I wear I'll met I stop it. Stop signs obey the law. I I try to six and as much as I do wanna drive, and you, and I are both kind of pro scooter notionally you and I both like electric and alternative transportation. When I do that it saves me. I wouldn't walk to those places a lot of times because I just don't have the time to do it. But I'm not using the car. And so I feel that it is a good thing to be doing. Yeah. How however if you're out there, and maybe you're not a listener who lives in an urban area where this is becoming a thing. Scooters particularly by the bird company. Rentable electric scooters have become a little bit of a play. Big as much as they help the environment there, so unregulated or laws are not enforced that things are things are getting a little bit out of control. Well, west out there Ville, let me give you some stats bird. I launched it stood sharing service in Santa Monica in September twenty seventeen since then it has grown to over one hundred cities facilitated over ten million rides and recently became the fastest startup to achieve two billion dollar valuation. Wow. Now when it says that it facilitated ten million writes does could some of those ambulance rides. It's quite because here's some more set in Santa Monica. The city's fire department has responded to thirty four serious accidents involving scooters in the summer of two thousand eighteen alone. Well, do we have a problem with the birds here to help us sort it out as attorney Catherine Lehrer partner with her husband in the Santa Monica law firm. Mcgee Lehrer associates, please welcome Kathryn Lehrer. Thank you. We broke right. You're that plus ban. Instituted that ban. Same demands at the beginning of this show, like a helmet list writer on bird schooner. Now you were helmet, right? I'll I do wear helmet. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Because they don't look at Gooden diapers. All time on that scooter. I feel like I am an accident waiting to happen to begin with. And so I would like to protect my head if I possibly could. Okay. Well, welcome Cavs. If you bang your head or get it. If you bang, it'll hurt your arm. It could Mike officer. All right. So catherine. Do we have an emergent scooter crisis? Yes, we do. We do we do. And Polly wanna say, I'm very happy to hear that your helmet. Yeah. Very few people. Do Raymond really in around him and who walks around the city with a helmet and their hand. Nobody has a helmet I'd say maybe one percent of people I see riding scooters actually wear a helmet never seen anybody else. Where in fact, I feel a little dorky wearing mine because people look at me funny. But I for you. Wearing one. That's good. So can you tell us some of the basic scooter laws and if they're being enforced like our laws, by the way? All right. There are analii. There are laws under the California vehicle code. That applied electric scooters. From one thing you're supposed to write on the street. Not the sidewalk. Okay. That's a big one. Very important. Yeah. No tandem writing. Okay. Just one person per scooter only one person per scooters a helmet law. Well, it was the law. I don't know if you know this. But it was the lawn California that adults who ride electric scooters have to wear helmets that law ended on January first of this year. That's because birds sponsored a Bill was which was signed into law which removed the helmet requirement for adults. But wait a minute. I've haute and I didn't vote on. It was it was signed in the lied vote on never would have a Santa Monica sitting through the state of California. Okay. It wasn't a ballot initiative elect our representatives. Lives by bird and to me it's caused a lot of head injuries. Do you deal with a lot of headed in your loan deal with a lot of head injuries from scooter accidents? Absolutely. Oh, my word is usually the person writing the scooter the person being hit by the scooter. Usually the person writing the scooter these things are going that fifteen miles an hour or more state law says the maximum speed is fifteen miles an hour. They actually go more than fifteen overclock. Oh, yeah. Okay. So so serious head injuries are happening. And now have how could bird not be liable for that? Well, when you download the app, and it's not just birds bird line. There are a lot of scooter companies out there when you download the app, there's a user agreement that you have to that's right and birds user green minutes, fifty eight screen pages long on your cell phone. And one of the one of those screens it says, we're numbers on your head. That's your fault. That's right. Okay. Now, limes user is two hundred and sixty one boy that'll put you off from reading the user agreement. Yeah, I've spoken to do that on purpose. Do you think they make the user agreement so long that no one is going to read it? Sure. If that's probably part of it was hacking with you're giving up your giving away. Every right there is sun. Son. So it says like somewhere on page two forty. It says the people who own line can move into your house, and there's nothing you can do about it. That's one of that thing. I believe so. Yeah, it actually violates the what would have been does that about quartering of soldiers. It might be the fourth. Just that's that's unreasonable. Search and seizure. I think court. Well, that's allowed to really once you sign. Okay. That's interesting now, Catherine you are apparently involved in a class action lawsuit that you filed against bird and lime and their manufacturer. And that's correct now what is what are you trying to get them for we alleged gross negligence, aiding and abetting assaults? New sense. How does it aid in a better salt? If you're walked pedestrian walking down a street, and then you, and you jerk out of the way. Yeah. That's an assault. You were in imminent fear of being a physical harm. Yeah. I know the nuisance thing is true. Now, again, we have listeners from all over the country and all over the world. And if you don't know this stuff is happening the way, these scooters work is that you rent them from these kiosks, and you dry even on a kiosk. They've topless there. They they are just left wherever the last user. Yes, leaves it. So it could be it could be on the median strip. It could be on the sidewalk it could be. Be at the end of somebody. I mean, they just literally drop them and what they're on where we have in the morning, then are banned. But it's they run out of. Money, right? Wherever the user wants to get off in the middle of bike paths and stuff really is kind of crazy there in the way up. Everybody must have seen these silly things by now, but in looks like escape board except for on the front of it. It has a handle of vertical bar post. Thank you with a handlebar on the post and and their electric. Yes. And there's also this weird gig economy tie-in to it, which is both kind of cool and kind of strange, which is that people earn extra cash by picking up those scooters when they're abandoned and bringing them to some central location, right? They take them to their back to their apartments and they use their landlords electricity to charge them. Money for that though. Right. Oh, this gets ugly. I it's not that I'm not in favor of them. But there's gotta be a way that we use them without being. So at risk. I think there's a you know, what it is. There's like a tourist mentality about them, which is like a less Vegas mentality. Like amount of town. I can do whatever I want. I'm not going to get caught. And then I'm gonna go back to my regular life. I'm going to be law abiding. So there really is like a wild west feel to you know, when you say tourists that's interesting because so many of the people who call who are injured are literally tourists in town from out of state where they don't have these things and they see scooters. Oh, like they're on every. So they look like. Nobody's wearing a helmet. There's kids on them. It looked so easy. And they hop on it, and they have no idea of the danger there about to encounter. Yeah. I yeah. I don't ride with other people because no one else would even ride my car to be honest with you. Your car. You're you're more competent driver than you think. I put a student driver sticker on the back of my scooter. Yeah. Just just for our listeners, Paula dozen fact student driver sign on the back of her car. Yeah. And it's keeps people away from me. It's just better. It's just better for everyone involved. You don't have one on your scooter, though, I don't realize making that by the way, I feel like I follow the rules about everything except for I cannot signal because if I take my hand off I will fall down it's signaling while on the scooter a law, you should signal you should use hand signals when you're writing over here. That's very problem. These scooters are very unstable very tippy. They're often have loose screws. You own your own scooter, you take care of it. You know, what the conditional, and there's nothing I don't what to taking care. And fact, I'm surprised she charges it. I know I I do mine is really not mine like made in China and sort of made to break down. I think I overcharged one of my overcharge one. Time because I didn't know such a thing could happen. And then the battery just is done, and we contacted the Chinese company, and they're like, yeah. No. We're not gonna do anything about that. Okay. Thanks because I just wanna buy new battery for. Yeah. We don't sell betters. So questioned the quality of your scooter. I might have a poor quality chronic you, probably do. Yeah. Big possibility if you could plug it in and leave it and break the battery by leaving it plugged in. Yeah. That's not a good and batteries, not replaceable. If you hit shitty scooter if you hit two year olds if you hit a bump the battery cut out for a second. It does not about hitting bumps. He minutes to work back into that. Because that's rare. The lawyer part of you. That's good at like knowing jets on the bonds. So okay. But these scooters have these tiny little wheels, and they're not airfield like bicycle, no, there's no show solid or wheels. They scam. No give they're not forgiving. Yeah. So if you go over even any Mina roadway inn perfection a pebble. Yeah. You could go flying. Yeah. Because these things we have a lot of calls from people who were injured when they're transitioning from the street up a driveway. It's called the apron of driveway, you know, that slope and there's a little curb to get up onto that. They there's little that little one inch half inch those that front will it's that writers lying while. Yeah. Mine making with bigger wheels. Why not I don't know? Maybe it's more expensive maybe cheer for them. Energy-efficient mine one time when the the battery cut out it just and they don't coast. It's in the way that it is not like escape board is like if the battery dies. It's very hard to just push it with your foot like you would escape board. A non electric scooter. Right. It doesn't coast hardly at all feature. I don't know maybe. But so I was riding my one time and the battery just got out to stop for. No good reason. And and I went flying I've managed to get to sevens. All the time has actually recalled at scooters in believe in New Zealand and Switzerland because the scooters were dying mid right? What was happening apparently was the software was rebooting in the middle of the ride. Wow. Would just stop on a dime and the past right or not tossed off lead. If there was a diamond vault. I could made some money on it. It was. Yeah. Enforcements got to be one of the big problems. Right. I've never seen anybody stopped on a scooter for doing things, and they know running bike paths or police would be giving tickets all day long. They don't seem to mind ticketing my car on street cleaning day. I mean, they should I don't I don't know why they're not enforcing a lot. But they're not. I think over the summer there was some handing out of tickets, and Santa Monica. I'm sure another cities, but there's not a lot of time spent giving out tickets, I wrote the Santa Monica bike that this summer. I don't mind bragging about that a little bit. And I had my son my nephew with me. And it's just the most wonderful thing the bike path that runs along the beach except this summer it was littered with scooters. And I mean littered in that it wasn't just the people winning by on scooters, but the abandoned scooters in the middle of the path fairy, they literally just go. Okay. I'm done. Imagine that with car like a rental car. Okay. I'm done with this. He's get out. It's like on the four five in the right lane. So what is I wanted to go with that car? Yeah. But is there any move on to enforce these things more is that just a well? I think I've recommended that the city Santa Monica that they should be enforcing the laws because people if the laws are not enforced. No one's going to bother following the law. Right. Exactly. When when birds started they were the first one in Santa Monica wasn't there. A point at which that Santa Monica city council is like, whoa. Whoa. Whoa. Yeah. This is quite all sorts and find berm back and just pay them a whole bunch of money, and whatever you wanna do. Go ahead and three hundred thousand dollars was this definers bird coming back and saying bird was fine by the city of Santa Monica and paid three hundred thousand dollars. But the Paul's theories that they then came back and gave even more money to change the city council. I don't know, you don't know. Okay. But they change the things that they were fined for. No, I don't think anything's changed. These things are incredibly dangerous. They have such shoddy maintenance practices maintenance is a big problem now to huge problem. There there. What what described as reactive instead of proactive and nobody's scooter breaks gets brought in by them. But they don't check the scooter between rights the scooter manufacturer instructions you can buy these things Amazon, and you can download the manufacturer's instructions. And it says check them between every right? It's a store them indoors stored indoors mindset, lean right checking for him between rides this. That's the other shoe. They're relying on their manuals and Chinese anyway, they're relying on their customers are lay people to to know what to check. Yeah. I don't know. I mean, you to make sure the screws are tight make sure the handlebars are tight make sure the brain. No, there were screws until this moment. This problem. Screws. Longtime about stone make a balloon animal. Oh, she. Oh, she. Balloon animals Suzy east prepare yourself disappointment. Now, do you have to have a driver? You don't have to have a license of any kind rightous California says you must have a driver's license. Absolutely. You have to know the rules of the road rules of the road because I was thinking of writing on the road Yar except the usually writing on the side. Well, said okay, great. No. You're not supposed to Ryan the site one. Now, by the way, this is crazy place, right anyways. Because the sidewalk has the breaks in the sidewalk. Yes, it has cracks it has elevations offsets it has pedestrians. It has your. It's very dangerous. Not when they see the scooter coming into net pedestrian so you'll get ton of business from this. I've spoken to between two hundred three hundred accident victims over the last year. Wow. Recall, you do you have on the back of the scooter you advertising. A sign on a bus that has. Accident days. Yeah. I mean, it seems to me if bird thought they could make money off of it. They would let you advertise because it sounds like they're just right? It's not proactive in any way there. Now, it's like, well, you know, we'll take in the teeth. Every so often we make enough money of the other rooms that it doesn't matter. So I think if you approach them they would give you some. Yeah. I would put the signs like on the pavement itself facing up. So that when people relied with the pavement, there's your sign. That's a good ending kind of stuff. Yeah. Now, that's the sound of my last lid to my balloon inflator device in your bunny burns, plenty can you? Give me my family. We're taking time to have you played making the lid to my awful sound mice. It's not it's audio medium. This is out of policy crappy balloon pump malfunctioning, by the way that we get injured by this balloon pump. Would you be able to help me Sudesh it out of these balloon problem makers if it's a bad injured about it's got to be bad bad injury. So when people come to you to you ask them like, okay how bad injury. And. Yes, I do. I don't really on the worst injury. The more excited. You get. I wouldn't say get how much advocate worse. The injury the more. They're entitled to compensation much blood. Was there? How much blood was like ghoul in frustration. I hurt Paulo with that pump. And we do the manufact-. I'd say she consume you, honestly. Yeah. I would rather to manufacture. Okay. As you can see what making right now is scooter, you're not I am. And it's got the writer has no helmet. And there's going to be a huge injury here. Well. Awful. Now, Adam is of a belief that balloon animals in audio medium are worthless. And I entirely disagree. They're relatively not not so many people in Twitter about my balloon animals stay too because they like you. It's almost like painting a kindergartner stuff to the refrigerator pinning a kindergarten like drawing by by a preschooler frigerator. Oh, oh, I see what you're saying. Yeah. They just like you Paul it or giving you a Pat on the head about these balloon. Always liked my kids. Do you put your kids on you? Don't like it when you put it on the refrigerator, Mike, it's very very talented. There. It is so different than everyone else June. Children don't need him. It's. Their cranial plates, very strong on it. But away because you are lawyer if this cough does come from mold can I sue my landlord? You may have a claim. Oh boy. So yeah. To that mole doctor last week poured cold water on that idea took told you that's not really probably hoping that might cuff grows in intensity as we're here today. We're the cough better. Better. The climb your calming impressive like quarter of law. You could you could sue anybody for that. Call I broke a rib coughing last year. And when I went to the urgent care, the doctor there told me that's not possible. And my assistant window said she never heard you cough. So it is beautiful. That is scooter with the helmets writer, Catherine and be aware that you're under oath. Do see that in that balloon animal you do. Yes. Of course, because you're not on your own. She was in terrible. All right that we wanna do one more thing, which is are you willing to do and you can say, no the butterfinger taste test. Okay. So we're going to do more bits of physical comedy and visual business that will leave our audience completely zone dental. That's not true. It's not true. So all right. Give you okay. Giving Catherine two different kinds of butter fingers. They're not labeled, ladies and gentlemen. Eko your first one. So those right ahead label. She has no idea. Whether it's the new improved recipe and use finger quotes when I say that or whether it is the standard recite. I I would have to say that Catherine seems to be the first person who's really being judicious about this really giving it a taste, really. Around experiencing the mouse feel kinda thing it's because the law is her wife. Okay. And then. She's ready for the other one. I love that you brought to zip lock bags in cleverly coated, their labels. Can't remember here is butterfinger number two, right? But if finger number two, she's looking doubtful. She's looking doubtful. There's no question in my mind. Okay. Wow. The second one you didn't even give no question. Okay. The first one was better, exactly. Baby. Yeah. Hands down. Massage therapist really went for the original butterfinger and not the new improve on. And I think part of the reason the massage therapist may have thought the new improvement which better as that. I pushed a little bit on his hand, and that may have affected. Everybody knows that that you're flavor receptors or connected to this palm nerves. Yeah. Exactly that have been maybe his no question in your mind, you know, hands down. No, no question. The second one is almost defensive second one is like pretend obsolete thrown are you a fan of butter fingers? Right. Remind me of my childhood everyone's a fan of. Why you can't really change recipes? Because even if it is objectively better, there's better people wanna taste the thing that they've always had exactly say really get a lot of very deep truths tonight. Thank you for going on the record with let me ask you something in the cases that you have have you have you sued bird or felt a class action lawsuit against bird lineman. They're manufacturer. So we're still very interviews. So you're very early stages desperately. We have another fifty or sixty clients were seriously injured that we will be filing lawsuits on while. All right. And we get calls every day read it every day. You know, what if I fly off of my Chinese made scooter, I'm calling. Okay, right. Yeah. There's no question any do. You have any pending suits against companies from China, the other scooters made in China made turn it. Yeah. Oh, wow. Well, no deals with China. All right. Well, thank you. Kaplan lira for guiding around speeding scooters, Paula what advice can you give our listeners about birds, and we don't mean the kind of li- Jacqueline ready house band. Could I have some background French horn for my scooter summary? Heping yet which made me about the scooter invasion, but there are laws for electric scooters. You have to have a license to ride one you have to ride one person per scooter. You have to ride on the street. You cannot push people down. You cannot drive in front of cars. You cannot steal things when you ride one. There are laws if you're Hooker or drug peddler, it's still illegal even when you're on a scooter scooters supposed to be maintained screws. They have no shocks. There is no way to signal without falling off which is kind of signal. I guess. Gathering layers, a personal injury attorney and partner at MaGee and associates in Santa Monica, California, Kathryn thanks so much for being on our show. All right. We will be back right after this. Thank you, Dan for that. Scathing report, as you know, mex- drive is coming up March eighteenth to March twenty ninth which has some folks pretty excited, but as families around the world, get ready to celebrate this season of giving community and quality podcasts. Some are wondering if it's just too much. They are some people are all for comedy and culture, but with forty five shows offering hundreds of hours of bonus content. Plus, all the max fun meet ups taking place around the world, some people think it's too much while other people think it sounds totally awesome. I took granddaughter to the mall to get her picture taken and the mall. Pod ferry was short. And I I'm just going to say, I'm sorry. But everyone knows the pot. Various, oh, well, I think we should just leave it there. Until next time. Here's the news. You need to know. Max drive runs from March eighteenth twenty nine be sure to listen to all of your favorite podcasts. I know I will. Have you ever watched movie so bad you just needed to talk to somebody about it? Well here at the flop house, we watch a bad movie and then talk about it. Yeah. You don't have to do anything. We'll watch it, and we'll talk it. We do the hard work, featuring the beautiful vocal talents of Dan McCoy, Stuart Wellington and me. America's rascal Elliott Ceylan, new episodes every other Saturday at maximum fun dot org or wherever you get your podcast dude by. Feels like a FOX doesn't it? Okay. We're gonna do one special Boersting before we close things out in that is we have a special guest tonight. We have my agent. Josh pollock. Josh was able to get me this podcast. That's how good this guy's good. Okay. Now. Josh, welcome. You're going to do our butterfinger challenge. Paula. I mean, I when I went in on the addition for nobody listens to Paula Poundstone. You almost didn't get it. It looked bad. Yeah. It look bad. But you know, this is like a fast, smooth tartar. All right. Got that one out from under you. Thank you for. Yeah. Yeah. I gotta say Joan you're a damn good Paula Poundstone. Yeah. Josh just managed noble you out of the way. John didn't even wanna be Jesse on Toy Story anymore. She wanted the starring role. Nobody listens to Poundstone would've had that. She was much better than me. But my agent. Did his phone magic? My Lord work those phones and got you the roller Paula Poundstone on this podcast. Honestly, and the whole deal was made with nothing, but a hint chick incredible. Why we haven't been paid a penny? It's true. We have blown this this week's entire budget on these butterfinger bar you wanna hand over to let him. Let listeners and that means you to your old right now. My Asian Josh Pollick. Is about to take the butterfinger taste test. He has no idea. Whether I'm giving him the new improved recipe or the traditional good there. We can't one point that we'd have butterfinger as a sponsor, but that's just never going to happen now working on it. Working on it that should be happening. All right. The lays gentlemen, he's eighties milking. His his eyebrows are going up like to say like. Good. Yeah. Like he like that. Okay. This. I think it's been Carl that Josh played Mikey on the life commercial many years ago. Did not. Yeah. That was. Yeah. You're mikey. But you're dead. What do you mean? You're dead. You didn't remember that? You died that Mike. No, he didn't. There was those are the big. Trio when I was growing up what people said, Mike. You know, how you digest from life cereal? Do you know how you doing? Did you not hear this was this? Just your neighborhood down the east coast. So you do notice could see it on your face. You. Eight pop rocks. And soda, right? And it exploded in your mouth kill you all that. That's what happened making. I was told that when I was a kid Mike from life cereal and soda guide. Not just to make you scared. No, I have. But was honestly was it was the butter fingers. Put over the top. Okay. Great. I I was pretty good. He has no idea. He thinks it was pretty good. He has no idea. And here comes the second blind taste tesla. Jomon? Okay. So he's chewing light says looking at full. No now looks. Now, it doesn't look as. Favorite ever know? Had a grimace you're now you're trying to coach the witness. No, he's grimacing. I liked the first one better Santa. So I believe my masculine over. They used to be believed either no score is forty-two before to also tell though as Intel. Because the masseuse fell three fella said that was harder in the other one fell apart. Right news in safely bit into the second one. You knew that was the one that Pala light. Okay. So is it. So what is it? Just to be contrary. Is that correct contrary three to two with an asterisk three to two with with a cheated. You cheated on. That was my phone ways. Josh Pollock whom there is a place in the current administration. You got you feel generally look you've got this job that doesn't that some knuckles to be bared in order to do that. Yeah. Is that security guy here? Knuckles Nichols Glickman's right over there. Yeah. You might wanna get him some work. All right. Our show is listener supported which means we want people to listen, we want people to listen, and my theory. Yes, Paul that. If every nobody listens to Paula Poundstone listener told a friend. Nobody listens to Paula Poundstone. We'd have ten more listeners in no time. Okay. Here is some simple sample dialogue are talking to a friend about our podcast. Okay. You've been writing a lot of sample dialogue. Because this is how we grow our listeners to say in these in these circumstances, right because they want to talk to their friends about guessing, you know, times it can be an awkward conversation. So. Listeners friend. Wow, this room looks fantastic. Did you paint it yourself listener? Yes. Thanks. I did listeners friend my gosh. I love the trim weight is the ceiling done in different code one in stripes. God mclinville, oh that must've almost killed you listener, not at all. I lied down my back on scaffolding. And I listened to nobody listens to Paula Poundstone, the whole time they're over thirty episodes and more to come. I was sorry to finish painting. Laugh myself. Silly if great, well, I also kept the windows closed. Okay. That's great dialect, Paul. I wanna ask you this has been sort of a guideline you want people to specifically have this very conversation. No, this is the conversation. They should have. Well, then I need to point out once again that is a specific set of circumstances that involves somebody meticulously painting their ceiling while lying on their back and listen to. Her show that I can't imagine that it's really going to be a thing that a lot of listeners have can I just say something to you? And by the way, two year old listen up, okay? Inch by inch. I ro I'm going to make my garden grow. Sank robot row, you're going to promote our little show. That's right. That's exactly right. Yeah. It's one listener at a time. I don't even think we're gonna get one out of this one Paula we are and they're going to have a fantastic room. Okay. Well, thank you for that. Helpful bit of advice. I have some advice while Apolo and me on Facebook, Twitter and Instagram. Ooh. That's good advice. Helpful all right. All right. I suppose that was helpful. Yes. It was nobody listened to Poundstone is hosted by Adam Felber and wait. It is. Up there. Nobody listens abounds on those by Paula, Poundstone and your history. Adam Felber produced by ball, abound. Stone at Felber body burns, Ken Lizanne, Nick. And Tony Anita home technical direction by Ray horsemen and mixing by Anthony. I'll farro special. Thanks to tonight's house. Span Jacqueline, rainy, you were fantastic. And thanks again to our guest, Michael Greenspan, and Catherine layer and special guest. Judge pollick? Thank you are headed security is Joan knuckles Glickman transcription services for the show provided by transcribe me for your special. Paula poundstone. Transcribe me discount. Use code Paula Poundstone, win placing your order at transcribe me dot com. That's our show for tonight. Well, somebody please listen to me. So you really, Mike? Can I come back? Tester. The taste. Apparently, Josh has eight Noel day. I am fucking star makes makes percentage of what I make keep that mind. Yeah. So. Little piece of butterfinger is always had this month. Josh if only get me a podcast. Maximum fund dot org, comedy, and culture. Artist owned listener supported.

Adam Felber California Michael Greenspan Michael paula Craig Bonnie Paula Poundstone Catherine Lehrer Attorney Twitter John Wayne Mike Ferrara Ferrara jacqueline San Francisco Paul Poundstone Hollywood neck pain Santa Monica
Wall Street Breakfast August 14: Trade War Blink Or U.S. Consumer Wink?

Wall Street Breakfast

00:00 sec | 1 year ago

Wall Street Breakfast August 14: Trade War Blink Or U.S. Consumer Wink?

"Welcome to seeking alpha wall street breakfast your daily source of market news and analysis subscribe to this podcast on apple podcasts google podcasts just spotify stitcher today is wednesday august fourteenth and i'm your host steve brown and i'm thrilled to announce that according to chargeable the wall all street breakfast podcast recently claimed the number one spot in apple podcasts business news category thank you to all of you are dedicated listeners for making this possible our top stories today trae or blink or u._s. Consumer wink negative yields in the u._s. and earning season not over yet leading today's news tariff relief lead to big gains for wall street on tuesday but u._s. Futures are pointing to losses of point five percent it as weaker than expected data from china and germany dimmed the global outlook yesterday the u._s. trade representative announced that new ten percent tariffs originally scheduled to go into effect september one would be delayed until december fifteen for some consumer items while other products are being removed from the new tariff list altogether due to quote health insecurity factors president trump later told reporters that his decision to delay the duties was to avoid an impact on christmas shopping in other news former fed chairman alan greenspan said nothing is stopping the u._s. from getting sucked into the global trend of negative yielding debt adding that quote zero. Oh has no meaning besides being a certain level with global central banks engaging an unprecedented monetary easing a record fifteen trillion dollars of government bonds. Now trade at negative yields yields the u. s. china trade war is also putting pressure on the ten year treasury note which nearly inverted on tuesday with the two year treasury note a historic recession indicator ninety percent of s. p. five hundred companies have already reported q two results but there is still plenty to watch this week particularly retail and e commerce players after surprisingly strong earnings from j. D. dot com on tuesday. Macy's will release quarterly figures today while walmart j._c. Penney alibaba will report tomorrow. Analysts expect consumer discretionary and consumer stable prophets to fall this quarter with categories like multi line retailers in food products walks among the biggest decliners a seasonal slowdown and trade tensions saw china posted weakest industrial output growth since two thousand two which rose four point eight percent in july from a year ago adding to the case to roll out more stimulus retails also slumped while fixed asset investment slowed further push for trade talks following the data and delay to the next trench u._s. Tariffs chinese officials stuck to plans to visit washington september for face to face meetings trading the shares m._s._c._i. Hong kong e._t._f. E w h the largest fund trucking hong kong stocks jumped to a five year high on tuesday with twenty five million shares trading hands in new york as riot police clashed with pro democracy protesters and the hong kong airport returned to com e w h ended the session the green though the one point four billion dollar fund has lost about forty percent of its assets since june tensions are still running high with president trump's stoking fears yesterday about possible intervention from chinese troops massing at the border europe's largest economy contracted acted by point one percent in the second quarter as global tensions put pressure on its export driven manufacturing sector chancellor angela merkel said the economy was entering a quote vote difficult phase adding quote. We will react depending on the situation. A closely watched survey of investors yesterday. Found german economic sentiment had plummeted to its the lowest level since the euro zone crisis in twenty eleven. The newly combined viacom c._v._s. will invest in more movies and t._v. Shows as it it seeks to challenge the disney and net flicks in the streaming business. Viacom owns the paramount pictures movie studio and pay tv channels such as comedy central mtv and b. e. t. eh while c._b._s. Has a broadcast network television stations showtime and a stake in the c._w. Network the two companies have spent more than thirteen billion combined in the past year close to the estimated fifteen billion net flicks intends to spend in twenty nineteen facebook confirmed it has been transcribing audio clips of its users in messenger but stop using human review quote more than a week ago. Only those who opted into the feature had their audio clips reviewed by third party contractors according to the company but it support page states that even if one person in a chat considered any audio would have been translated regardless of whose senate dissolving tech giants will be challenging with the might be the best action to restore market competition according to f._c._c. chairman joe simmons who is leading the agency's tech sector review for antitrust violations amazon and alphabet are common targets of antitrust investigations both domestically and overseas the f._t._c. is also investigating vesting facebook as six twenty a._m. Today u._s. futures crude oil and gold or all set to open in the red on today's economic allender e._i._a. Petroleum inventories are out at ten thirty a. m. eastern time that concludes today's wall street breakfast. Thank you for listening for the best investment analysis and news on the web go to seeking dot com subscribe to this podcast on apple podcasts google podcasts spotify stitcher. You can sign up for our other podcasts behind the idea essay for f.a.s.t. Let's talk e._t._f.'s the cannabis investing podcast cast and marketplace roundtable on those platforms as well have a great day.

apple Viacom spotify chairman president facebook alan greenspan Hong kong fed Penney alibaba Macy hong kong walmart china steve brown google representative
Cults Bites: Suspicious Celebrity Deaths

Cults

00:00 sec | 8 months ago

Cults Bites: Suspicious Celebrity Deaths

"This episode is brought to you by the completely reimagined twenty twenty four to escape with Ford co-pilot three sixty a suite of advanced standard driver assist technologies. It's built to help you outsmart some of the obstacles. You'll encounter out on the road. They're smart and then they're street-smart the completely reimagined twenty twenty Ford Escape. Welcome to podcast crime bites. We wanted to give our listeners. Some additional content to help them dive even deeper into the true crime world every week. In addition to your normal cults episode were exploring the most fascinating true crime themes covered across the podcast network. We've collected short clips from some of our most popular podcast originals to help us explore ideas like motivation method and madness and show how interconnected the true crime world really is. You can find these original episodes for free on spotify or wherever you listen to podcast a list of episodes that we used. We'll be posted in the episode description. Today we're discussing cases of suspicious celebrity deaths with the intriguing or around Hollywood and society's obsession with celebrities. It's no surprise that celebrity deaths are often mired in suspicion and conspiracy theories. But why are we so intrigued? By celebrity death and why is the intrigue amplified when the death is unexpected? David Kaplan former president of the American Counseling Association explains that Social Media is flooded with posts. A celebrity dies because of the bond. We feel watching them. Onscreen Kaplan says that when someone has followed a celebrities career for so long they feel intimately familiar with that person's life therefore it can feel as if a family member has died conversely psychologist. Dr Simon more believes that. We are intrigued by the details of celebrity deaths because we feel reassured by the fact that someone with more money power and fame is subject to the same rules of mortality that we are whether it be suicide drug addiction or murder it makes us feel more secure our modest departments in office jobs because at least we're not them but what a celebrity's death involves some suspicious element such as murder or conspiracy. We're all the more intrigued. Due to what criminologists Scott Bond Calls? Thrill seeking true. Crime gives the law abiding citizens a boost of adrenaline without ever leaving the couch or being an actual dangerous situation. We'll start our exploration with a clip from podcast original conspiracy. Theories that discusses the media sensationalized death of actress and sex icon Marilyn Monroe nearly sixty years after her death. Monroe continues to be a pop culture icon. Monroe's private life was the subject of much Hollywood gossip in the nineteen fifties. She was involved in two highly publicized marriages divorces and battled addiction and depression when she died of prescription in nineteen sixty two. It was ruled a suicide but many believe there was something more behind her cause of death on August fourth nineteen sixty two. Maryland spent most of the afternoon in a room after having an argument with her friend and publicist Pat Nukem in the morning nukem state at the House for the rest of the afternoon at about three or four. Pm Maryland's housekeeper. Eunice Murray called over her psychiatrist. Dr Ralph Greenspan. She claims she called him because she was troubled. By Maryland's request an oxygen treatment even though oxygen was a well-known hangover cure at the time. Dr Green soon arrived around three or four. Pat Nukem left in Greenspan spoke to Maryland in a room for about an hour. Greenspan left asking Murray to stay at Maryland's house overnight and keep an eye on her Maryland took telephone into her room and spent the night making calls to friends and acquaintances everyone. She spoke to agreed. She didn't sound drugged or depressed and she gave no indication. She was considering suicide at around ten PM. She set the receiver down during a call and never returned around ten thirty. She made one last call to Peter. Lawford her friend and the husband of Patricia Kennedy during the call she apparently drifted into unconsciousness and stopped responding at either midnight or three am. She changed her story later. In the morning Eunice Murray woke up and noticed a light in Maryland's room was still on but she wasn't responding fishy called Dr Green Son who broke in through the bedroom window and found Maryland lying dead clutching the telephone next to empty pill bottles of prescription sedative called NEMBUTAL and nearly empty bottle of another sedative. Choral Hydrate Greenspan called Maryland's physician Dr Hyman Engelberg. Who came over and officially pronounced her dead at four twenty five. Am The police were called? Murray Greenspan and Engelberg initially told investigators Jack Clemens that Maryland's body had been found at midnight creating a four hour gap between discovering the body and calling the police that none of them could account for clemens was relieved by Sergeant Marvin known who sealed up the house until the full investigative force arrived at about five thirty when the investigators questioned them later that morning. Murray Greenspan and Engelberg all change their stories to say that Maryland's body hadn't been discovered until three a m inconsistencies in the forensic evidence and the witnesses stories. Baffled the police but it did appear to be a suicide so they held off on opening an official investigation until the coroner confirmed the cause of death. The coroner's went on for less than a week during which they interviewed. None of the key witnesses except for Maryland psychoanalyst. Dr Ralph Greenspan after speaking with Dr Greenspan the deputy. Da Leading the investigation said. He was completely convinced that. Maryland's death was not a suicide. The medical examiner's performing the autopsy also believed the death couldn't have been a suicide but despite those findings the coroner officially ruled the cause of death as a probable suicide over the past five decades. Even more evidence has emerged to suggest that Maryland's death was not in fact a suicide. There have been repeated calls to reopen the investigation into Maryland's death some as recent as two thousand and two. This should not be a close case it should be an open case by the DA. There's too much too. Many people too much overwhelming evidence that proves that this was not a suicide and I think that Maryland needs closure the difficulty with finding the truth. Is that nearly all the key? Figures involved in Maryland's death are now dead themselves and the statements they gave during their lifetimes were often contradictory. Many of the witnesses who have spoken out against the official story have been discredited as liars fame seekers and conspiracy theorists despite evidence that they might be telling the truth and many of the people who upheld the official story had their own hidden agendas. It was in their best interest to end the inquiry into Maryland's death as quickly as possible following that clip from conspiracy theories. Monroe's death sent shockwaves across the media. So much so that the Chicago Tribune reported an influx of calls from readers. Overloading their switchboards. Many conspiracy theories about Monroe's demise have offered a wide range of claims. Some believed that. Her doctors accidentally overdosed her others that Robert F Kennedy murdered her but ultimately Monroe's cause of death has remained a suicide a celebrity taking their own. Life is shocking enough but what happens when a famous person is the one suspected of taking the life of another and what if they're victim is also a celebrity coming up. We'll follow a case where the perpetrator is just as famous as their victim. This episode is brought to you by the completely reimagined. Twenty twenty four to escape not too long ago. Driving seemed a lot simpler. Streets were less congested. And there were fewer distractions on the road. Nowadays a million different things are constantly fighting for attention. Ford believes it's not enough to make a vehicle with technology. Drivers need an SUV. That's ready for the challenges of today and can help anticipate the challenges of tomorrow an SUV. That's built street smart. That's why Ford has completely redesigned the twenty twenty four to escape there's Ford co-pilot three sixty a suite of advanced standard tack designed to help you feel confident and in-command on the road the completely reimagined twenty twenty four escape. It's not just smart. It's street smart podcast listeners. We realize that there are a lot of park has shows to choose from each day and sometimes not enough time to sort through them. All in our new feed park has daily. We filtered through all of your favorite podcast series to highlight the most timely and relevant episode premiering each day every Monday through Friday discovering new and captivating episode curated specifically for you. That's one new episode from our slate of content handpicked with you in mind. Time is precious. And we've got you covered. Follow podcast daily free on spotify or every. Get Your podcasts. You can check. Moorpark has shows and a full library of episodes in spotify by searching for podcast in the spotify. Search bar or by going to spotify dot com slash podcast. Now back to the show. We've seen so far how a celebrity's death can spark widespread public interest. But what happens when both the victim and there's suspected killer are famous. That is the case that our next clip from unsolved murders covering the death of Natalie. Wood in November of nineteen eighty. One would felt like she had it. All she was a movie. Megastar married to actor Robert Wagner. She Wagner their friend. Christopher walken and boat Captain Dennis Vern at taken a yacht out on a weekend trip to Catalina island but as they headed back to their boat after an alcohol fueled dinner on the island Wagner and would got into an argument Doug Bombard was both the owner of the restaurant and the Catalina harbourmaster. He was also a friend of wooden wagner's concern for his friend. Safety Doug escorted the trio back to their boat after some drunken stumbling. Doug managed to get the three actors on board but Robert. Natalie had both become visibly upset in an effort to avoid tension. Dennis Roberts Yacht. Captain brought the group to the Salon at the back of the ship and tried to continue the party. Doug rescinded the invitation and went home while Dennis made an effort to distract Robert but as Natalie continued to Converse with Christopher Roberts Jealousy overwhelmed him he confronted Christopher and asked him if he was trying to sleep with his wife while throwing a bottle of wine against the wall in a fit of rage. Christopher vehemently insisted that was not his goal and Natalie pulled Robert Away. Christopher left the room as Natalie and Robert began argue. The argument lasted for hours. Christopher went to bed while Dennis listen nervously on the other end of the boat after some time Dennis decided to check in on them and Robert turned his anger on him which according to Dennis was so intense that Dennis genuinely feared for his own life a frightened. Dennis went back upstairs and turned up the music in order to drown out the fight that was happening below him then around midnight. The fighting stopped and there was silence. Dennis waited ten minutes or so then. He went and checked on his employer. He found Robert. Sitting at the ladder to the dinghy curled up and crying. Dennis asked Robert. What was wrong responded by telling him that Natalie had gone missing? Dennis found this odd for several reasons while the yacht was large. Wasn't large enough for someone to truly go missing on board and Dennis had just heard Natalie yelling at Robert only ten minutes before Dennis asked his boss he should turn on the boats searchlight or call the coastguard. Perhaps Natalie had fallen overboard and they might need the Coast Guard's assistance however Robert insisted they neither turn on the searchlight nor call for help. He claimed they should just wait for Natalie as she was bound to return at any moment against his better instincts. Dennis listen to Robert. Robert was his employer and Natalie's husband. He thought that Robert. Probably new best as they waited. Robert cracked open a bottle of Scotch and the duo drank. They waited a full hour for Natalie to return but by one thirty. Am on November. Twenty ninth there was no sign of her at this point. Dennis insisted that they do something waiting. Wasn't helping them find Natalie. Robert Agreed Buddy. Still refuse to call the coastguard instead. He called his friends in town on Catalina and asked if they had seen Natalie anywhere that night Roberts friends told him to sit tight while they searched the town Robert. Dennis waited once more but by three thirty am. It became clear that Natalie was nowhere to be found. Finally Dennis Convinced Robert to call the coastguard. The coastguard was shocked to hear their story. And they ran into each other as they shipped off to find Natalie Wood. We're looking for the Natalie Wood. Do you think we'll be able to get her autograph? She's been missing for over three hours. It's freezing cold it's raining it's stark and they say she can't swim and lick. I doubt she'll be in any shape to give a God damn autograph. The coastguards scoured the ways for hours searching desperately for Natalie. The Bright iridescent glow of their searchlights was slowly replaced by the rising sun. Doug Bombard the Catalina Harbor Director who knew Natalie joined the search as soon as he heard that she was missing at seven forty four. Am On November Twenty Ninth. Nineteen eighty-one dogs boat found something near near the cliff. There's a dinghy on the Kelp. Slow the boat down from the looks of it that dinghy belongs to Wagner. I'm sure she's nearby but if she made it to land wouldn't someone have found her by now. She didn't make it to land there bobbing on the waves. A Red Parka and dark brown hair in that clip from unsolved murders. After Natalie Wood's body was found her death was initially ruled as an accidental drowning. But the case was reopened in two thousand eleven after boat captain. Dennis diversion admitted. He lied to police about the night of the drowning different publicly stated that he believed woods husband Robert Wagner was responsible for her murder he told police that Wagner was reluctant to call the coastguard to investigate this led to the two thousand twelve amendment to woods cause of death from accidental drowning to drowning and other undetermined factors as of two thousand nineteen. Wichner has been named a person of interest by police but there have been no further changes to wood's death certificate and no arrests have been made while neither of the deaths covered in our previous clips have been officially ruled murders in our final clip from not guilty actor. Robert Blake was accused of killing his wife. Bonny Lee Bakley on May fourth. Two thousand one Robert and Bonnie had just finished eating dinner when Bonnie was shot sitting in the car outside of the restaurant. Detective Ronald Ito arrived at the scene and Robert. Blake agreed to accompany Ito back to the police station for interview. Ito asked Blake to walk him through the events of the evening they went to dinner. At Vitolo's Blake reported that before they left the house. Bonnie asked him to bring along one of his sons. She thought someone was stalking her and felt safer with his thirty eight nearby. They parked on the street a little over a block away from the restaurant. The hostess sat them in Blake's customary corner booth around eight thirty PM AFTER THEY ATE. Blake paid the bill. His receipt timestamped nine twenty three pm but when they reached his car. He realized that he'd left his jacket and the thirty eight caliber handgun in the booth. He left Bonnie to wait while he went back to the restaurant to retrieve them while there he asked for two glasses of water and drank them both when he got back to the car at nine thirty eight. Pm HE FOUND. Bonnie had been shot twice. She was barely alive. Frantic Blake ran to the nearest house and banged on the door. He had to try more than one house before someone would answer when they did. He insisted that they call nine. One one police registered the call at nine forty PM Blake then ran back to Vitelle owes to see if there was a doctor. Present Terry Lorenzo Custody Ada. A nurse jumped up from her dinner to help but by the time they reached Bonnie she was bleeding from her eyes. Nose and mouth cuss. Anita couldn't do anything then. The lights and sirens arrived by the time. The ambulance reached the hospital at ten fifteen pm. Bonnie was dead on arrival. Blake then reiterated to Ito that Bonnie had pissed off a lot of people over the years with her letter scheme. She had plenty of reasons to think someone was following her. This was probably the work of some guy she bilked revenge. Ito wrote down the theory but also noted how quickly blake turned from visceral grief moaning on the sidewalk to trash talking the deceased mother of his child so far it appears to detective. Ito that Robert Blake had plenty of motive to kill his wife and ample opportunity he also had the means. Blake owned several guns in addition to the thirty eight caliber. But the forensics team found no significant gun powder residue when they tested his hands and no blood on his clothes. Bonnie was shot at point-blank range. It was unlikely that the shooter could've walked away. Free of any splatter frustrated Ito sent Blake home. He knew he was missing something he needed. More information following the events of that clip from not guilty to men came forward and told police that Robert Blanket offer them money to kill Bakley in the months before her death blake was subsequently arrested and charged with murder ultimately. He was found not guilty of Bakley's murder but after the criminal trial Bakley surviving family members sued. Robert Blake in civil court. He was found liable for the wrongful death of his wife and ordered to pay damages with the endless conspiracy theories and vast media coverage of celebrity death all the clips. Today highlight the intersection between our nation with true crime. And our obsession with Hollywood and Dr Simon Moore said it's perfectly normal search for the sort of details about celebrities passing because it serves the psychological function of boosting our self esteem even decades after they were laid to rest. These celebrities have television episodes movies and podcast covering their deaths and the mysterious circumstances around them. Marilyn Monroe continues to be an enduring figure of Hollywood. Today she even has an official twitter handle that shares photos and quotes from her life. Though Robert Blake's film and television career never recovered after his acquittal. He has been able to move on emotionally in two thousand seventeen. He announced he was engaged to his third wife. Sixteen years after Bonnie's death. Thanks for tuning into podcast. Cry Bites. We hope you enjoyed this episode unsuspicious celebrity deaths. We'll be back next week with a brand new episode under Torius. Assassins if you'd like to listen to the episodes we discussed today in full simply search for a podcast original shows conspiracy theories unsolved murders or not guilty on spotify. Not only to spotify already. Have all your favorite music. But now spotify is making it easy for you to enjoy. All of your favorite podcasts originals. For free from your phone desktop or smart speaker and don't forget to follow us on facebook and Instagram at podcast and twitter at podcast network. See you next time.

Natalie Wood Robert Blake Robert Maryland Dennis spotify Bonnie Marilyn Monroe Robert Wagner Ronald Ito murder Doug Bombard coastguard Murray Greenspan Dr Ralph Greenspan Ford Eunice Murray Bonny Lee Bakley Robert F Kennedy Ford Escape
Dorie Greenspan & Joy The Baker In Conversation

Radio Cherry Bombe

00:00 sec | 1 year ago

Dorie Greenspan & Joy The Baker In Conversation

"Hi I'm so fierro chef and wellness enthusiast. Did you know that nearly three hundred and forty thousand or one in five New York City children rely on soup kitchens and food pantries to eat especially during the summer months when school is out the folks over at Food Bank for New York City want you to know that unlike school hunger doesn't take a break help them. I'm an child hunger by providing meals to families and children in need during this challenging summer months visit foodbank. NYC DOT ORG to learn how you can volunteer spread the word and and more hi bomb squad your listening adding to Radio Cherry bomb the number one female focused food podcast in the universe. I'm your host Kerry diamond. Let's thank today sponsors Lu Cordon Bleu Lou culinary schools and traeger wood fired grills. You folks are the bomb. Thank you so much to everyone who came to our food for thought event in Asheville North Carolina this this past weekend you can probably hear my voice that I lost my voice a little at least longtime listeners you probably can too much excitement. It was wonderful meeting so many of you and hearing from amazing guests like chefs Katie Button Chidi Kumar and Ashley Shanty. We'll be airing that episode very soon so stay tuned and thank you to the folks at carry gold the maker of beautiful Irish cheese and butter for supporting our tour and Asheville by the way is a very fun place to visit great restaurants so many cool makers and you're surrounded by the most beautiful mountains and scenery. You should plan a visit our next big event is jubilee Seattle. We've got a great lineup planned for you. Including Chefs Rene Ericsson mckinney Howell and Rachel Yang talk about supergroup Alison Roman is flying in all all the way from New York City and we'll have lots of local luminaries there including Linda Eder Shang an Errand Goyo Alga. We'll have lots of food and drink and great panels and talks. We cannot wait to celebrate the Pacific northwest bomb. Squad tickets are on sale now at Cherry Bomb Dot Com and event will be taking place Saturday November second at at Block forty-one speaking of Jubilee for today's show were airing a conversation from jubilee two thousand nineteen in New York City. It's a chat between Dorie Worry Greenspan and Joy Wilson who many of you know and love as joy the baker these powerhouse home bakers have so much wisdom to share when it comes to baked goods careers. There's cookbooks and more introducing them is Christina hough the CO owner and Co founder of macaroni Parlor and meow Parlor right here in New York City Dory just happens to be Christina's mentor. Christina shares her story of how baking changed her life and we couldn't be happier to share it with you before we hear from Christina. Here's a word from La Cordell blue. Are you daydreaming about culinary school again. Make this the year your dreams become reality reality with cordon BLEU legendary culinary school study classic French Culinary Techniques and cuisine and Patisserie as part of their exclusive nine month Legrand diploma and graduate into a world of opportunity you also can extend your course of studies to include culinary management and dedicated internships lacorte on blue has locations in more than twenty countries around the world and located within some of the best food cities out their London Ottawa Madrid Bangkok Tokyo and of course the spiritual home of cuisine and cordon Bleu Paris turning your daydreams into reality is closer than than ever visit Cordon Bleu Dot. Edu for more and let your culinary adventure began and now Christina. I'm so excited. Everyone came up to hear me talk. So my name's Christina I have two main interests cookies and cats and I do both for a living. I've two bakeries called macaroni parlor then there's meow Parlor New York's first cat cafe on UNAI throw the cat equivalent of this jubilee every year call Jackson galaxies cat camp. I'm a lucky person. I have a wonderful family. I have amazing easing friends. I have great employees and I've helped over five hundred cats find homes. However things weren't always this way? The loneliest period of my life was about ten years ago. I'm not sure what I was looking for when I moved to New York but I knew I was afraid to to stay in the suburbs and afraid that I would just settle as a teenager. I didn't know what settling was. I didn't know if it meant fulfilling the dreams of my immigrant parents by becoming a lawyer or if it was choosing a path because it seemed easy I don't know what are y but I had felt uneasy for very long time. So I just kept busy busy. I graduated college in three and a half years then went back to school to get an associate's and then back to school to learn how to sew instead of pursuing higher education as just signing up for school for the sake of filling my time I took internships and eventually jobs my dream companies only to look around one day Eh and wonder why didn't fit in. I'm an introvert who felt so uncomfortable in a city of eight million people that I was thinking into into myself. It was my mom who encouraged me to sign up for my first speaking class at that point. She knew I would never be a doctor or a lawyer and she a new unhappiness look like she told me that. When I was in preschool we had a weekly Bacon class and it was my favorite thing in the world? She knew I was lonely than to partly because I didn't speak a lot partly because I didn't understand what people were saying and partly because they constantly felt like other but food has no language barriers and it was my favorite part of the school week so as an adult I start to take baking classes over time late nights of anxiously waiting in for the night to end and the next workday to begin turned into our spend on the floor with my feet propped up against the oven watching breads rise cookies caramelized caramelized and magic happen. Finally something felt right. I'd spent so long chasing shadow. They never stop to look at what was in front of me that in a city with thousands of restaurants fast casual joints and cafes though the thing that made me happiest could be a career I went all in I use recession as an excuse to shrug and say the desk job wasn't going anywhere anyway. Within a year I was in pastry school met my now husband who's over there and we started macaroni parlor but anyone who has opened a business knows the first few years are still lonely. You don't have time to socialize because you're understaffed. You're afraid to step out because replaced my burn down in fifteen minutes. You're gone and you go to sleep so late that you wake up tired but that kind of loneliness didn't hurt I had a purpose and it was tangible and things felt right during this period. I didn't have many friends ends but I had the Internet I used to write about my life about owning a business and the things I was learning. I didn't write for an audience. I wrote because for the first time in a long time I'd a lot to say and so I wrote into the abyss of the Internet much to my surprise it spoke back. If you love a New York has a cat cafe it only exists because my business partner sent me a letter five years ago and I was so touched that I hired her her to work in my kitchen so one who works for me now read my blog when she was in pastry school last month someone from Australia message me to say that she thought me recently because you starting her own business. I haven't written for many years now because I'm not lonely but there are still people out there looking. It made me realize that we're all looking looking for some connection. It's what makes us alive Dory understood this years ago before we had twitter and instagram that will food is a necessity city. It's so much more than that. It's about people it's about connecting with others about memories and experiences her cookbooks were the first I had ever read included stories about a recipe thirteen cookbooks in Dory's invited people all over the world in some of the greatest kitchens and more recently into her own own kitchen. I I found through her world peace cookies name because they are good enough to bring world peace then there was Tuesdays with Dory where people connected connected with each other from their own homes by blogging recipes entire communities sprung out of doors writing and everyone who participated how their own story to tell she helped people create memories. Today we have so many more tools at our grass to allow us to stay in touch to meet new people to double tap or Swipe right right we can invite people to peek into our kitchens with photos taken on a phone or quite literally like joy invite people to cook besides us in our actual kitchen joys joys one of those people who figured out a way to combine storytelling food and the desire to connect both on and offscreen using these new tools she gets it. I wouldn't be surprised if that's helping out someone who is lonely today. Food has stories to tell people to feed look forward to listening to these women talk about their careers. Here's the human element of food and how social media has impacted the landscape from their first cookbook. Dori was one of the first people I met in the food industry three men T in a mentorship program and for years. She sent me words of encouragement. Every few months got an email from her about something she saw that she wanted to share or deceive. I was practicing self care or just to send some love. Doria was one of my first friends as an adult and she claimed she had nothing thing to teach me. She may not know this. The much of what I've learned from her has shaped entirety of my career so without off my chest. I'm so happy for everyone here to listen to the Magic to come because I know it's going to be so beautiful. The I'm going to start off my conversation with Dory today by telling her a story so I was saying in two thousand and six I was working as a baker in two bakeries. I wasn't joy the baker so it was funny that I was Baker into bakeries because I was an enthusiastic home Baker and I had finagled my way into to baking jobs because I realized that if you like to bake and you will get to work at three thirty in the morning you're hired you know so I would get to work at two thirty in the morning and start baking because a lot of times I would mess things up and have to throw them away so then at three thirty ready when real bakers came in I'd be like hey guys just starting fresh just here ready that happened a lot career and so much chocolate Mousse okay. I'll get to it training you in the speaker like coming prepared with extra black bags to throw yes yes and after I get off of work I would go home on the way home. There was a bookstore and in the bookstore was your baking from my home to yours book and I couldn't afford to buy it but I would sit in the aisle and copy down your few recipes word word for word it's no problem and then I would take the notebook to the bakery at two thirty in the morning and try some of your recipes and what was that wasn't the one that didn't work was it that you know they always and what was so wonderful to me about that book. Is that your your technique was so helpful but it was written from the perspective and from the heart of a home Baker and so I take it to this new job in in a place where I was making friends with my fear and I got so much comfort and skill from it and I bought the book I eventually could afford it. I had to save up but but the mother in me is thinking. If only I had known this I would've since you the book story they don't do that. People need to buy books so yeah so I wanted to tell you that story and then ask you you think you ask you how your kitchen journey started and what were the books that maybe you held close to your chest as you were embarking on your journey from Home Baker to professional personal home Baker to Home Baker. No I am a home home big can I just I worked with Julie. This has not answering your question but I will call okay so I had the amazing the amazing good fortune to work with Julia Child in the nineties. I wrote baking with Julia which was the book that accompanied her TV series and we shoot every day and one day Julius said I want to play Hooky. We play with me and so I had I still have a little MIATA which is like a car the size of Jelly Bean holdaway. You have Miata a red one a red one yet yeah and it's it's a convertible but Julia you couldn't you couldn't take the top down because your hair right and Julia had sized is twelve or thirteen feet and so I kind of had to plead her to get her into the carpet. This isn't this isn't the story. I want to tell you so. Julia said let's play Hooky. I Origami her into the car. Her idea of Hooky is going to the supermarket and so we're we're shopping around. She's helping people choose a good melon and at some point she turned to me and she put her arm around me. She's six tall and she said you know we make such a good team and I was really touched and she said we make a good team because his were just a couple of home bakers and even after all the Julia had done and all the Chia taught all of us. She really thought of herself as a home Baker and I have never stopped thinking of myself that I burnt my parents kitchen down when I was twelve I wasn't. I'm GonNa do this very quickly. I wasn't allowed to bay. I got married when I was nineteen. I'm still married to Michael Greenspan and I learned to cook and Bake because I I learned to cook because I had to and I learned to bake because I really wanted to and I my book the book that is tattered and has spots. I thought they were chocolate. I have no idea what they are. All over. The place is me to heater she. He was my does it. Does anybody know maybe heater so she was my hero zero. Everything I made from her books worked. Her directions. Were so precise. When I started writing about food I had made it in my my minehead she was she taught me to Bait? What is your favorite thing of hers to Bake? Do you have a favorite. She had a lemon cake in her the first book that I made for I made it every year for our son's teachers for their Christmas gift. I made it for potlucks. I made it for everything everything and when her the paperback version came out that recipe wasn't there and one book later she wrote and she said here's my revised version. She said I can't figure out why didn't work but people started writing to her. This was writing not in and it didn't work and she retested and she claimed that it didn't work because the demons well I live in New Orleans and demons effort of demons and ghosts are everywhere yeah so I learned I learned to bake from me to heater from Gastonia note when his first he's a he's now dead but I think of him as the father move modern pastry and when his book was first translated into English that was that was my book. Do you write in your cookbooks. Do all right bye-bye cookbook no yes yes I do in my cookbooks. Yeah I make notes I I had I have my first cookbook I got when when I was twelve years old so one of those paperback church cookbooks and in it every time I made a certain recipe I would write the date the and right my thoughts about it opens journaling and my cookbook I still have that book of my Mother didn't make when my parents moved to Florida Lord and my mother called me. She was so excited she had to ovens and I said but you don't Cook or bake. She said Moore storage so I never had I I. They didn't have a cookbook until I got married and it was the New York Times Cookbook. That's good. It's my first bill. What was food like for your family when you were growing up so my father owned a supermarket so there was plenty of food nobody ever wanted to cook it and so there was a housekeeper earned the housekeeper cooked? I don't remember my mother cooking. I have no memories of my mother cooking or my father. I have new favorite favorite dishes from childhood and I think that now as I look back it seemed perfectly normal to me. I didn't know I didn't know anything else but I realized this. I think that on how important it was from me to make a home when we got married and for me home meant and being at the table having friends at the table I think came from a kind of deprivation shen in but it wasn't but I was happy. I didn't know you know I hear you but you want. It's like a way of nurturing you are building a way of nurturing in your relationships romantic and friendship and everything I don't. I'm sure I didn't know what I was doing boy. I'm glad I did because it is it is about without having I think it's through food that we make relationships in the we make memories that last in case you didn't hear me like singing happy birthday from the rooftops yesterday our son turn forty yesterday and it was birthday cake and it was looking at pictures of him blowing out you know two candles three candles twenty candles making the same cake that I've made for him for years and years person-years. What is that cake so it's a chocolate cake? I've tweaked it a little bit to make it a little less sweet. It's a dark chocolate cake with it's a buttermilk milkshake in its Scott Chocolate frosting and he can hold lots more than forty Campbell's soup. You're ready. Do you make okay okay. I have a lot of questions I want to ask you but since we're talking about birthday cakes. Do you make your own birthday cake no do you yes is that because you don't trust anybody else. Who makes your birthday cake and what is it? I don't so it's interesting. I was so set on. It's not interesting. It's just it is I was so set on having traditions because I didn't grow up with them but I have no particular birthday king. Now I mean Joshua has his chocolate king okay. I want to ask you about food writing because I think you are such a beautiful food writer. How did you transition from your work in the kitchen to writing about food? I started as a writer so so I went to graduate school. I'm all but dissertation for a doctorate in Gerontology the study of aging about which I can tell you more now than I could have have when I was in graduate school and I worked in a research center for many years grading and I think thing and I was very lucky I work for someone who really encouraged me right and who was a good editor and I I never saw well at the separation between developing recipes and writing to me writing the recipe instructions was a form form of creative writing. It was a way of imagining somebody in the kitchen imagining talking to them. It was a conversation for me Suet. Do it always felt like like writing. It always felt like like I was talking to the person who would be falling my recipes so that was I don't I hadn't odd experience of friend of mine. Akali friend was was going to award nomination and a book of mine. What was the baking with? Julia Book was just been published in and she said to me and I hope you don't get nominated and when I could catch my breath I said what are you saying being and she said well all you did was write the book and I've thought about that's twenty some odd years ago and I've thought I always think about that because I think what is it about is a cookbook. Just the recipes zippy's is a cookbook. A cookbook is something you right. Do we think about the importance of writing. When it's instructional optional I think it is a whole peace and it never occurred to me that being just the writer with anything less than being so it's I think about this a lot? I think that I would love to seek cookbooks thought about as books yeah well as cookbook pieces of writing. There is so much personality that goes into the even just the instructional part of a cookbook. It's unique due to its writer. Yeah I mean you have a very particular way of raiding your recipes of. It's it's it's our voice. It's in Yeah it's instruction and pep talk and like walking people back from the cliff with baking yeah. Thank you very much which we'll be right back with Dorie Greenspan and joy the baker after this quick break. If you're serious foodie unique to know about traeger wood fired grill you can do things you never thought possible on a grill like baking you can bake some smokey chocolate brownies a classic Cherry Pie or a stone fruit gala let and if you're on the bomb squad you know it's all about the Gallup the season of course you can grill barbecue roast and smoke your favorite meats veggies and fruit. Yes fruit if you haven't grilled pineapple. You don't know what you're missing before. I learned about trigger. I was never that intrigued by grilling. I'd only ever been around charcoal grills news and gas grills with those annoying propane tanks. You have to return. I just wasn't that into it but with a traitor you get signature woodfired flavor and more heat heat control so you can do some high quality cooking and if the aesthetics of your backyard are important to you these are some seriously beautiful pieces of equipment so when it comes to your next grilling adventure try it on a traeger visit traegergrills dot com to learn more and now back to George and joy at jubilee so in working I would love to hear more about your time working with Julia and what it was like to work on that book hello soup I had met Julia in one thousand nine hundred ninety one. When my first book came out it was my first time time ever in front of people I was the kid in the back of the room because I didn't want to raise my hand but when my book was published I had to actually get out into the world you make sure somebody other than my mother who I knew would never use it with by and so I was invited to give a demo at Bu an on that program was Julia and Chuck Pippen and me and Julia befriended me at that I mean she just she saw a lonely scared young woman and she took me around and we kept in touch and when she was working on this book she asked if I would write it but I just started working for the food network and I was in show business and I said Nope? I said I'm not writing anymore more. I'm a producer. This is my new life and after about six months I realized how much I missed writing and I called and said WHO's reading writing your book and she said we haven't found anybody. Co Yeah I mean I almost missed that opportunity. She is everything that you the Julia that you see on television is the Julia that you see all the time show this so smart so funny so curious about everything she on her computer breath and my my husband was up while we were shooting and she said Michael go upstairs see what you can do with it and he he was petrified that he was going to ruin Julius computer but he went upstairs and he sees he turns around and Julius there and he said Julia. I'm working on it all. Oh no no no no. I want to see what you're doing. You're not always going to be here. I WANNA learn how to do this. She wanted to learn everything. She called me one morning Shit you have a bread machine. I said no she said. Aren't you interested not really. She said you should bake. I'm getting one today and you should too. She was really early in intellectual. She really studied everything. She knew the history of things she wanted to know everything when she she was she wanted to teach people her home. If you've never read a book called if you're interested in Julia if you've never read a book called as always Julia. It's the letters that you wrote to Avis Devoto who helped her get mastering the owner French cooking published. Did you get to see the way she worked. The how important every detail was how she wouldn't let anything go. It had to be right. She kept polishing. She kept working her work. Her Work Habits were extraordinary her commitment and I took away from working with her that kind of focus in how much you have demand of yourself to do good work another through line with fat feels like like a constant curiosity yeah which which is required to push sure self forward and better. What are you curious about outside of food? What am I think about? What do you owe like? I'm curious about all of you. I want to know everything about like where you've got started. Eh You know what you WANNA do. Hell you make things work. I'm curious about people. I'm in love with Paris. I've been lucky enough to live there as a part timer for twenty years but every time I go like I want and I want to learn something new. I want to eventually no HEDDA cut. A pyramid shaped kyw's properly. It's mostly people keep its people you. What am I curious about? Oh my gosh so much every year. I try to take on a new curiosity because I don't know how long to be in the world. You know so it's like every year. Let's try a new thing. Last year was yoga this year. I'm learning how to sew and a a two years ago was paper flowers so dip in two. I think that working outside of food also helps feed my creative work in I. I think that breathing helps fuel no. There's there's no there's something about just being out in the world. Being aware of what's around you you find inspiration absolutely everywhere a quick almost non-related story. I did a book signing years and years ago with Peer Air May Paris first pastry chef. We'd written a book together and a woman came up and she had a little baby and pierce smiled and kind of chuck the baby under the Chin and said what's the baby's name and the mother said Celeste and he said the superior full name and then he took his notebook out and he wrote it down and and I said what are you GonNa do with it. He said I don't know it's just a very beautiful name and about five years later he created an entire pastry collection and and called it Celeste. Oh my God so you never you never know where something is going to come from. Warren idea will come. I'm from sometimes I see a color and it makes me think I can make a dessert from it. That's really beautiful. Can Can I ask you about Paris can ask you about. I know you live in Paris. Also Connecticut also New York Okay Casual casual casual. What what parts of Paris do you find you? Bring back to your American kitchens and what parts of like cooking in the states to take back to Paris so I I probably do more cooking in Paris than I do any place else and I think it's because it's too easy to have people over. I don't know why nobody seems busy busy in Paris you can you say honey. I'd like I'm going to the market tomorrow. Do you WANNA come for dinner and people say yes in New York. It's it's like could you go to the market in six weeks and it just takes too long so I it's really ingredients that inspire me that make me think I've kind of never know what I'm going to cook until I'm out there looking around. I love to cook some American Food in France for my French friends so I like to do like Burgers for a whole dinner. Put out put out different things that people can mix him at they never do. The French would like my Frenchmen would like me to either give them the food exactly as I want them to or they will just line it up very very beautifully so how often do some American things in Paris and have fun with that. I used to bring back literally bring banking gradients. I don't need longer. Everything is available but I sometimes feel the first week that I'm in Paris. I I feel like my head is exploding. I feel like there's like something in the air. That makes you have a trillion ideas. It's that spot for you. It's that's yeah that's exactly right. That's spont- there is there was a connection is the first the first time I put my foot down on the sidewalk in Paris. I thought my mother had me in Brooklyn when she could have had me here. So Rude Food Yeah Brooklyn was not hip and Groovy then I feel that way about New Orleans and also in New Orleans people but we'll come to dinner. They are too busy. They make time put. Did I want to ask you next I want to talk about. I'll help you. Thank you. Tell me about your cooking school this at home right yeah I do. I have a I have a cooking school in New Orleans. It's called the Bake House and it's a double shotgun. So half of half of the House is my studio and it's a giant Ed opening kitchen where twelve people come three or four times a month to learn how to cook with me. Children ever children no children. I don't know about them. I just don't his training. I knew about one I knew about one. Don't know what they can do what they can't do you know I just know adults yeah but it's a really wonderful way to bring you know my work. You're my creative work on the Internet into real life which is what I feel like we need you know real. Life is not wait. Say Real. Life is not underrated but it's real life is not overrated. Rate depends on what you're trying to say. No real life is great. It's lonely out there in cyberspace sometimes yeah I think we have have kind of reached the peak of of what we can do only on the Internet. I said that but I really because I'm not a millennial because I'm not a native digital person because started working. My husband just just found my proposal for my my dissertation and it's on I missed that paper that kind of sparkly onion skinny paper the bit. I used to type my proposal on but because because I'm essentially old I'm excited did by the Internet when when it arrived. I couldn't believe that there were all these people out there that I it could learn about the first time I saw somebody post a picture of something that they've made from one of my books I started to cry. I can call husband in because as a writer before the Internet you sat at home and you wrote and you didn't no who was out there. You just sink your work out and every once in a while you would meet someone. Maybe who knew something about what you were doing you. You had no sense that there was no way that the word came back to you in the you could see the reaction and I have never stopped not being excited about the Internet because I feel it does bring us together in a way where we can share what we know. We can learn from one another. There and I thought to see someone make that chocolate cake in two thousand eight. I was apart. My blog just started. I was part of Tuesday's these days with Dory. You've were Oh girl yes oh yeah and so every Tuesday there were maybe fifty of us on the Internet we would bake one of your recipes from your baking book and posted every Tuesday and it was such a beautiful way to have community on the Internet. I'm still in touch with a bunch of the Tuesday's so this was a group that was started by a woman whom I've never met in Pittsburgh. She wrote to me and he said I just got your cookbook. I'd like to bake my way through with two of my friends and we're GONNA blog. Just the three of us is that okay and there was what this was two thousand seven and I didn't know what Oh came in. 'cause I didn't know what the Internet and I thought this is really yeah this. This is great and I remember going to a conference a year later and having people say to me. Aren't you afraid it will hurt your book sales. So do you want your recipes all over the Internet. Do you want and I thought Gee I do I do. I want these people to be baking speaking and sharing what they know and I think I was right. You're right. I think I was right. You're very generous no because I think it's just it doesn't it's the opportunity for Peop- okay I'm GONNA do. I have a second to preach. I'm just okay. I just want to tell you I feel about baking case. You don't know I feel that baking his magic agic I feel when this I felt it from the start that we're transforming ingredients with our hands more so than in cooking I mean when you make a mistake you look at the state you cook it. It looks like the state but with baking everything you do is a transformation is magical. It changes changes with the same ingredients you can make a thousand things and you make it with your hands and you make it to share with someone because even I don't think for myself it's always meant to be shared and and there's a sense of satisfaction of having made something from start to finish yourself and so when I saw people out in wherever Internet people are you're baking and writing about the fact that they hit made these recipes and talking about whether they serve throws them to their family or they took them to a potluck dinner or that was part of a church reception or a woman who sent me a picture that she had made all of the search for her brother's wedding this extraordinary share in the magic with you. It's but I think this is what food is abound absolutely you. We only have a few minutes left and I really must get this piece of information from Mu. It's a question I like to ask anyone I can so the question is what it's two parts. What is the best piece of advice? Suv Ever received and what is the best piece of advice you've ever given. I think the best piece of advice advice air for gone and Sofia said it as well is the same piece of advice that I give okay and then let's say okay yes even when you're terrified OAS yeah I mean you worked as a baker and you said You I worked as a UH Baker. When I hit my got fire very quickly but briefly worked as a bigger when I had no experience experience and all I had was the desire the I mean? This is what I wanted to do and I mean even even going to that demo where I'm Joya. I was so scared but I knew I had to say yes and so yeah. It's the same piece of advice given given an taken. It's a making friends with the fear and pushing yourself and just so you don't feel alone. I've also been fired fruit to Baker jobs. I was fired for it. Took me. It took me years to realize what how fabulous the reason reason that I was was it the cause whatever she said I was fired for was really a great thing. I was fired for creative insubordination. I think it's pretty great. It took me years. It took me your yeah yeah. I changed the recipe and didn't tell anyone you are perfect. Thank you dory. It stinks Sir the that's it for today show. If you want to see what jubilee is all about tickets are on sale right now for our jubilee Seattle Conference taking place Saturday November second at block forty one we would love to see you there. Thank you to today's sponsors trigger woodfired grills and mcchord BLEU culinary schools. Don't forget we would love if you could support the hunger doesn't take a break initiative from the Food Bank for New York City visit foodbank. NYC Dot Org for more Radio Cherry bomb production of Cherry bomb media our show is edited engineered and produced by the one and only just seidman Cherry bomb is powered by Lauren Goldstein Audrey Pain Kia Demon Donnie Yen Maria Sanchez and our publisher Kate Miller Spencer our theme song is all fired up by the band Tra la La. Thanks for listening everybody your the bomb. I'll have what she's you. Hi My name is Miami and I'm the chef and partner at the club restaurant. Do you WanNa know who I think is bomb. I think Jessica Koslow of Squirrel in Los Angeles is the bomb because she's bad ass and truly authentic to herself in cooking food that is so personal credible available and simply delicious and the comparable setting a squirrel. She's changed the dialogue and elevated the standard on what we think of the American breakfast and lunch. I embrace acer philosophy that the

New York City Julia Paris Michael Greenspan Baker Dory Christina hough Seattle writer New York Bake macaroni Parlor New Orleans Asheville Lu Cordon Bleu Lou Julia Child Home Baker Cordon Bleu Dot
Mad Money w/Jim Cramer 10/26/18

MAD MONEY W/ JIM CRAMER

45:22 min | 2 years ago

Mad Money w/Jim Cramer 10/26/18

"The mad money with Jim Cramer podcast is punctured by Fidelity Investments at fidelity, we believe nothing should come between you and your money. So we're introducing zero counties with zero minimums to open an account all because we want you to invest with zero tradeoffs visit fidelity dot com slash value. To learn more. Zero count. Minimums zero counties of ladder, retail brokerage accounts, only expenses, charged by investments such as funds and managed accounts for commissions interest charges or other expenses for transactions may still apply. Fidelity brokerage services number NYSE SIPC. My mission is simple to make you money on here to level the playing field, all investors. There's always a bulwark at summer, and I promised help you find mad money starts out. Hey, kramer. Well, can a mad money. Welcome to KMart. That'd be wanna make France. I'm just trying to make some money by job. Researchers entertain. But that's getting teachers a calming at one eight hundred sixty three CBC or tweet me at Jim Cramer. Tough days don't last forever. But when it come on, you need to know how to respond you need a game plan totally developed and ready. So you can decide what kind of self we're dealing with. I wish I could say that we always know how to respond, but the early days of the decline. Well, they're never easy to navigate. I borrow line from Tolstoy's fabulous, Anna, Karenina, all happy rallies. Are like each selloff is unhappy in its own way. It's so true bull market send stocks higher and everyone thinks they're genius for. Them. Darn easy. Big declines. Because they could be the start of a bear market. They could be just the beginning of something unfathomable or they might actually be by blanche. That's why I wanna use history to try to identify some of the common qualities. So that you can figure out how to handle these inevitable moments of weakness without panicking. I let me offer some historically constructive words of relief sanity and real not phony but real assurance there. Have only been two truly horrendous sell off since I started investing in nineteen seventy nine the one day crash of nineteen eighty-seven and the rolling crash of two thousand seven to two thousand nine I could've done the NASDAQ crash, but the S and P Elba. Pretty well. Let's deal with these two big ones though, head on because these two declines are great examples the polar opposites of each other even as the percentage of the clients were somewhat similar on October nineteenth nineteen eighty-seven black Monday. The Dow fell five hundred and eight hundred twenty two percent in a single session. Twenty two percent of his trading that day and even as the previous week had been one of the worst weeks market history. Monday hit fast hit hard. It was almost as if there were no buyers to be found from Dow two thousand two hundred forty six with a crash started to Dell seventeen hundred and thirty eight where ended that day. It was telling a friend. The clothes. I remember thinking I remember thinking saved by the bell. Except felt like there weren't many left to be saved. But most people don't remember as I mentioned is that the week before was one of the markets worse weeks, ever as doubt already plunged from twenty five hundred to twenty to forty five that's ten percents club that encourage bargain, hunters, and it turned out to be classic bad money in retrospect because these intrepid souls so that they could flip Monday morning in some strength and that strength never developed. In fact, the weakness that they were buying occurred. The next day in what became known as terrible Tuesday with DAL actually, kind of just broke down the market simply stop functioning. But you know, what I was there, and I was actually able to calculate that bottom. The actual bottom that occurred, and it was around Dow fourteen hundred off another fear and thirty eight points from where the market close implant flack day, then fed chairman Alan Greenspan step stopped the decline in his tracks. When he said he'd provide all quitting necessary. To stabilize the market. I still remember that green line when it came over your screen. He listed multiple firms around Wall Street, they'll put in the bottom and the market states remarkable two day rally that took us up more than five hundred points the effects of the crash listed for three months when we had a re-test that held. But you went to almost sixteen months until the averages returned to where they were trading before this big break down the bear market began October two thousand seven it was totally different animal. The Dow fell from fourteen thousand one hundred sixty four didn't bottom to March ninth of two thousand nine when it landed six thousand five hundred forty seven we didn't return to that. How two thousand seven level to watch two thousand thirteen why did oneself and so quickly while the other took six years. That's the question that defines the two extremes of unhappy. So offs the initial in black Monday wasn't mechanical so off the first one. I remember that occurred simply because the stock market failed to be able to function it's instructive unpacked black Monday. Because the way it played out was reminiscent of two other crashes. The flash crash twenty ten minutes Dapo ganger in two thousand fifteen. You may have heard theories about what causes these three crashes, but most of them are wrong. Okay. All three started with the stock market futures. Yes. And five hundred futures in Chicago overwhelming, Wall Street, New York, where the stocks underneath a trader buck Monday happen being the stock. Traders didn't understand the power of the futures market which could flood the stock market with instant unseen supply. These days we accepted the futures are worth watching. But it wasn't like that back then because they were relatively new instruments founded five years before the crash the power of the future snuck up on the people because they were they were initially a much smaller market than the stocks themselves. Because of the great liquidity, oh, the ease with which portfolio managers you can go in and out of them. They became the most powerful drivers and stock prices even more powerful than the actual performance of the underlying companies that stocks are meant to represent underlying companies earnings used to me, much more. Now, it's really these futures. That matter the thing is even with relatively new impact of futures. Black Monday was unu-. Usual. We had had a big run going into eighty-seven remarkable multi rallied with nary a substantial decline and don't I know it I love Goldman Sachs that you're start my own hedge fund because my returns have been so bountiful. The monitor rally created such stupendous gains that group of clever sales people started selling what Clinton what they claimed were insurance policies that could locking gains and stop out losses for big funds. So called portfolio insurance involved. What was known as dynamic Heggie would sound so dynamic hedging where these specialists said that using futures you could ensure that you would no longer be exposed to stock market risk say down five percent or ten percent or whatever the policy took out the Termine. The idea was that they let you suck. Step the labs. I said the losses is impossible to do that. Unfortunately, much like communism portfolio insurances well concede in theory. But it doesn't work it live. The losses will kick didn't want some black Bundy and insurance didn't work if anything the future selling insurance, accelerated Klein and costs incredibly large losses for the actual insurance. The people who sold these policies were charlatans and mount bunks they were never exposed as such. But then just now, but that's exactly they were. There's no magic trick get the returns from investing in the stock Martin without much of the risk. Don't believe anyone ever tells you any different. Of course, it's a time. We didn't know that the power of the futures could cause a crash we figured where there's smoke. There's fire if the market crashed. And there's got to be something real with the economy. There simply has to be a recession lurking there had to at least. That's what we told ourselves. The economist strong going the eighty seven crash in it was strong coming out of it. There just wasn't any economic correlation with black Monday at all it was the interplay between Chicago and New York that set off the conflict Gration, and when the treasury department examine what a that day, a YouTube port it concluded the future set of so much Sally that some specialist firms on the floor of the exchange and some brokerage houses failed to step up and stabilize the tape. The latter had no duty to do. So, but the former were supposed to do it and treasury found that many didn't do their jobs. I was fortunate enough to being cash on black Monday having liquidated, but liquidated my portfolio early in the previous week because the market had acted so badly. It made my career for the next fourteen years of professional money management. I could show perspective investors that I had sidestep the crash for real. They thought I was a genius. But the truth is I was just frightened of the market. And wanted to regroup. But as I never tire saying, it's better to be lucky than good. So here's the bottomline. Sometimes crashes have nothing to do with the economy there caused by the mechanics of the market. Stay tuned for more examples of this kind of decline and the more serious Hannibal the market two thousand seven two thousand nine C you can figure out what to do when they happen. Let's go to Keith in Texas cave. Hey, Jim, how're you doing? I'm doing well. How about you? Pretty good question is, hey, how'd you decide when a collection like we had back in February has made a bottom, and it's okay to get back into the market. Well, what I like to do is elect to see try to get a sense on whether the selling has run its course. And what it takes to do that is to be able I you get a level where it bounces, and then it comes back, and it tests that level it that second test as we call it holds, then it's more than likely that you have to come back from the sidelines. And sometimes crashes have nothing to do with the economy. They have to do with the mechanics of the market knowing how to respond is essential to your money money tonight. My Selous strategy session continues. Don't miss my take on the micro crashes that may be sure but could have lasting effects that when you view investing. Then you might know chicken little and the boy who cried wolf from. Fairy tales, but they also play a role in the stock market. Is it all the feds fall, not always of mine the rational reasons rational that the market declines when it comes to the central Bank. So stick with. Don't miss a second of that money. Follow at Jim Cramer on Twitter. I have a question. Tweet Graber hashtag bad tweaks sin Jimmy mail to mad money at CNBC dot com or give us a call at one eight hundred seven four three CNBC miss something. Head to mad money dot c C dot com. Welcome back to a special how to deal with all sorts of declines at dish of mad. My. We've already covered. What happened the crash eighty seven? How wasn't really related to the economy? Shocker. So it was okay. To buy stocks in that we nineteen eighty-seven was a rare opportunity that took a little TIME TO REVEAL itself. But when it did. Ooh. La la. It was also the first instance of the s and p futures exercising their pernicious power over individual stocks. They were like playthings the stocks. Sadly, it was the first of many, which brings me to the fable flash crash of twenty ten one of those negative moments that drove away so many investors who never came back to stocks because they know their value could be destroyed so quickly almost wims Clea who wants to keep their life savings and instruments that can blow up in the blink of an eye. What happened at at June? It was pretty much the same deal as black money of eighty seven. The futures overwhelm the stock market and bars just walked away betting. There had to be something subsidy behind the destruction. It couldn't just be the machines breaking down for heaven's sake. Last craft started at two thirty two PM may six two twenty ten it lasted for thirty six minutes in that thirty six minutes. The Dow fell almost one thousand points from lucky the ten thousand level it was member for me because I happen to be on TV at the same time. Some money managers have been speculating that the market was going down precipitously because of riots in Greece. Oh, queens was on everyone's mind back then because been endless worries at Henry about what would happen if the Greeks deformed on their bonds, others pinned it on new fan weakness in the US economy, which for the record there really wasn't any because I had the benefit of trading on black Monday. I recognize exactly where what it really was when it was happening. Now, the situation where the futures were overwhelming stocks and the machines were breaking we didn't know as the time. But a gigantic Aaron. Ellwood or caused tremendous fear that spread like wildfire. Many buyers simply disappear they didn't want to wait around to find out. What was causing the landslide? They just wanted to get away from it as fast as they could one air. I call them the phony sell up because the decline of no basis it economically alley which made it a tremendous by. What we're seeing right now. I mean, maybe I believe maybe unprecedented. There a fantasy that sock with stupid system, obviously broke down redefined list from which into talking about when Shane's failed nude obviously broke that job. Didn't work at broke down the machines broke down. That's what happens. It didn't work the machines broke down. And that's what happened on that later. Well, some listen and actually bought stocks a move and talk about that too. Many people simply didn't believe that equities could be that fragile was shocking in all the years. I've been doing this show. I hope I've taught you that stocks are not hard assets. There's subject to all sorts of whims that can reduce their value at a heartbeat including mechanical issues like those that happened during that thirty six minutes. So anyway, the market quickly regained its equilibrium. But not before another round of individual investors left the asset class entirely and never came back. Okay. How about the August? Twenty fifteen up for the Dow fell one thousand points, what if the open that will miss seemingly related to fears that the fed was it's into raise interest rates read into the weakest in the CIA after what was happening in the Chinese market, not our market as Tiny's market had just fallen more than eight percent in a single day. Many seem to forget, but back then the Chinese market was the most dominant negative story out there as people fretted that the whole economic edifice in the PR C could collapse from too much leverage, and too little acquitting some L I five. I five I found myself on air at all the right time witnessed these events that Friday for the self that been a monstrously ugly days, a fed official lake near to noon had suggested it was time to raise rates despite the Chinese sell off. It was an aggressive statement that demonstrated a cavalier attitude toward the markets ugly. But also fragile mood when we came in on Monday, August twenty fourth we heard that there were some very large sell order, some places from major stocks. I mean, we we weren't ready though, for the gap. Dow's we saw who picked capitalization stocks were shedding hundreds of billions of dollars value with many twenty percent down as the market open like the question baby seven, it was very tough to tell what the real prices were the confusion was that horrific. It was like the fog of war. The fact of training, but Val ended up tally a decline of about one thousand points when the smoke cleared at ten o'clock, I and my partner some squawk on the street, we're pretty stymied at the time. You know, what I remember turning David favorite? Chad. About the meaning of the sell off in the midst of the conflict Gration, his reaction priceless. The Dallas house down two thousand points. And the wall says on some of these names UNH Verizon GE down thirteen I this is. I got I got to make some phone calls because that's. Someone boss or a Norma smooths? Going to make some phone calls. I remember what he said. I said, yeah, that's it. I gotta make some costs. That's how confused we were. Again, we figured the had to be something. But you get the kind of decline, right? That'd be something going on the economy. Some somebody knew something we did. Something mysterious something other worldly, something ferrying, maybe China actually collapsed. Maybe there've been something that occurred in Europe. We didn't know about the economy is still fragile that warranted. The decline I was suspicious though suspicious because some of the hardest hit stocks were the recession proof names, especially the biotechs, which are some reason declined harder than almost all the rest of the market. Think about that that shouldn't be happening. If there was really something wrong with the economy. That's what people buy those talks are often, the safest of havens and moments when it's the economy that's at work. Once again, I suggest the machines that were causing the problem that the future should overwhelm the stocks and the computers they'd gone haywire by mid morning. We learn that was exactly the case and the stock market them. Underwent a beautiful metamorphosis furious rally jumping five hundred points from the bottom strong stomach virus came in and took advantage of that opportunity. The economy is gaining strength. Not losing it. But a thoughtful fed actually wasn't about to tighten with. Not with China teetering. It was an excellent time to buy stocks. Why was there such fear and confusion at the time of both the two thousand ten in two thousand fifteen minute crashes. I think investors weren't ready for either flash crash because post nineteen eighty-seven the government put him known as circuit breakers. There were supposed to cruel these declines by stopping trading momentarily. But these circuit breakers created a false sense Curie that Ali still exist today, even as they failed to work properly. Both occasions did very little stop the destruction. So please when you hear talk of circuit breakers, protecting you from fast declines, no don't believe it. Fear can't be legislated or regulated out of the market. It will always be there. There will always be people react horribly after an initial then even that events mechanical not truly substantive in nature. So what's the bottom line here? If you can determine whether so office caused by the mechanics of the market breaking down, the new might have an incredible buying opportunity. I though you have to figure out whether the selloff is related to the fundamentals economy. If it is then state who if it is stay tuned anyway, but recognize that you have a first class panic in your hands and nobody ever made a dime panicking. But boy, oh, boy did they coin money taking the other side of the trade. We're going to go to Jeff in Florida. Jeff. Mad money. It's an honor your very very by. What's going on your welcome? Here's my question. Jim they're an equation formula rule of thumb anything to dictate when or especially what percentage of profits to take off the table and really good gains or grabs. We you know, what I have had the shows in at all times. I always try to measure these things, and what I've come to realize is that I used to tell people when things were really bad in the market. You know, look up twenty five per cent. Take some off the table but for actions plus dot com. What I've learned it's got to be a little more patient that when you have a really good stock goes up fifty percent, then you start taking some off. And then a hundred percent, then you take out that you take out your basis you put in and then you let the rest ride on not as anxious to trade or recommend trading as I used to. I like longer time investing the situation. Bomb whoever nobody ever made a dime panicking. Okay. If a cell has caused by the mechanics of the more, you may actually have an incredible buying up to but for made money at the market falling the Marcus point, it's more than just immersing. Teach. You a lot about any best. Then don't get fed up on breaking down the fed vers erves role in the mortgage and a sell off or says a by the key to tell a difference is a little something I like to call systemic risk. Day two dollars plate and stick with Kramer. We are that discussing what to do in a selloff? SSL sell sell, sell and how to figure out what the right approach is given how difficult different they all. Are we covered? The crash of nineteen eighty-seven is example of one of the most horrific and quick declines imaginable. And yet there was no economic ramifications whatsoever. Many foot we had to be on the verge of a recession because the stock market projects. What is supposed to happen in the future? It's kind of an early warning system. But not that time it was a cell a full of Salman fury that signified nothing. Same with the to flash crashes that we've been through two thousand ten in two thousand fifteen the Selva two thousand seven to two thousand nine was exactly the opposite. It was a multi Klein that started when the Federal Reserve raised rates seventeen times in lockstep trying to cool an economy that already long since cooled off. It's the most dangerous kind of sell off. Bobby calls the static wrist decline. And it's one that we can't travel with and we got to spend some time. Fortunately, they don't happen. Very often. Call it say how about twice in eighty years the first being the great depression. Unfortunately, every time we have a severe a couple data Klein, we hear this great recession bear market vote. Lots of investors curry out believing that the sky is for you. And then they never come back, and they lose money, and it's breaking my heart ear, so let's set stage back in October of two thousand seven the stock market Pete and a little more than fourteen thousand when as I mentioned the fed brace rates over and over and over again seventeen times and economy after cheering for just a bit fell off a cliff and took the stock market. What's it is those things that you could have seen coming if he had paid attention done? A lot of talking some homework, or at least paid attention to me went back on August. Third of two thousand seven I escorted the fed for continuing to raise rates oblivious to the damage it was doing to the real Konami. People better this game for twenty five years, and they are losing their jobs, then these are going to go out of business and he's nuts. Nuts. They know. Nothing kramer. I have not seen it like this since I went five bid for a half a million shares of CitiGroup when I got hit nine thousand nine hundred this is a different kind of market and the fed is a sleep. Okay. But here's the mount Bill pool is a seen. He's shameful. They. Nothing. Nothing nothing. Oh, excuse me. What does that mean? But well shortly before I came out to the set that moment to be interviewed on my old friend earn Burnett. I haven't talked to the heads of what to ahead of actually one Wall Street firm about problems in the mortgage market pretty much everyone who follow this market, which is incredibly important to the healthy economy, you that there were a lot of unsound practices occurring. Stewart was jarring when I was told by this executive that he couldn't believe how many people would be getting to default on their mortgages talked about how many mortgages of the two thousand and five vintage he used a term that I had really before they associated with fine wine just weren't money. Good. Something only had happened once in our country's history and was never supposed to happen. Again. The great depression, I was gas. But you know, what I lot of friends a lot of firms. So what I did it start making a lot of calls. I wanted to see if this two thousand five vintage thing was in trouble everywhere. I was adamant I got off the phone is the problem seemed to be spreading like wildfire. Called mortgage bankers guys major Wall Street. I everybody's and that's why I went off so strongly my red. Oh, well, the fed didn't listen uh specially Bill pool who at the time was an important fed official who is so sanguine about things that I had to single out in the ran years later, I found out when the feds transfer released from that period that my reate was brought up in the fed had a hearty laugh about it. We then had a series of renders defaults of large banks and savings and loans some of which were thought to be too big to fail and failed. Anyway, including gorgeous, save me some loan and two of the largest and most people brokerage houses, I did my best to try to get people out including going on the today show to urge people who needed money near-term to take it out of the stock market less. Dippy lost. Whatever money you may need for the next five years. Please take it out of the stock market right now. I don't think many listen and the market fell another forty percent before it bottomed. Bought anytime from when the stock market peaked at fourteen thousand till was cut more than in half by March of two thousand nine. You did lose a fortune. So how you void binding. This kind of dip isn't that what we need to learn? How do you would this kind of dip versus buying that black Monday opportunity? They seven the first thing you have to ask yourself is about the economy is business is business. Really getting crushed is employment. So important when considering the direction the stock market falling off and falling wealth hard is the fed standing pattern even raising rates when their signs of real cracks like major firms going under or big companies unable to pay bills are their actual runs. Unbelievable financial institutions around the country, not just in one area. If the answer is yes, then you ever decline that could be deeply rooted and joined at the hip with the real economy, and that has what I've mentioned is systemic risk. Meaning that the entire country could collapse. That's how it was back then and it is why I get so angry. When I hear people say, this is going to be as bad or worse than two thousand seven two thousand nine when there's of course, nothing. Like that car because like I said only twice in eighty years. You don't expect systemic Chris continue happen. That's not the way it works in our country. Second if you wanna know if there's anything in place that can actually save the economy or actually turned around that's important to eve is the government tried to intervene with a troubled asset program and yesterday, she tried to institute rules that forbade short-selling. None of those things mattered what brought the market Alabama's funk was a statement. By Ben vernacular, forceful statement. When sixty minutes, no less that he would no longer let any more banks go under in our country before that we watch is the fed had pretty much indicated it was unable to stop anything dramatic from Akari. Bernanke was no longer worried about such niceties and a bottom was put in. We're their ways to spot the bottom. I got a couple of signs that can help one that I monitor closely is the standard and Poor's oscillator that's a paid subscription product that I get which is updated if because and trading every day it measures buying or selling pressure. When you get a minor spied that indicates that there is most likely too much when you get a minus ten you gotta do some by. We were getting sales or much worse than that near the bottom is a sign that it was time to buy another way to look at it. I like to say who's been pessimistic or concern about stocks. But it's good walk into say anything positive who then changes his tune the best example of that kind of switch came from the late. Great Mark Haines who had this to say back then. However, I'm going to step out on a limb here. My rethink hold on every word about him. I really don't look at that March ten of two thousand nine the day after Bernanke he was on sixty minutes. And that's why we call it the Hanes bottom bottom. It was that much of a country and call from someone who hadn't been mowing to make one until that moment. Now, certainly made a ton of sense to sell what I said to sell. But before you say to yourself. What happens if no one more you again, the next time? What do you know what I've got some good news for you little sobering. But it's good. If you waited long enough six years to be exact you actually did get back to where you were before the bear market begin. All right yet, six years. But if you'd sat tight you've actually did get back to even since then, of course, you made a lot of money. Yes. It would have been better to take something off the table. But one of the reasons why I am always always always stressing that it might just pay the sit tight if you haven't sold is because even in the worst stock market economic boom of our lifetime is still did fine. If you bought in hell, so here's the bottom line be where the chicken Littles of the world be mindful that there are tons of people who cry wolf every time we're down for a couple of days. But then again, there's been one time where it paid. Actually sell when there was real systemic risk. Remember that term to the US economy unless there is again, it's okay to do some selling. But otherwise, maybe just sit tight and wait for those signals to buy Dada and decimated. Donna. In my husband, watches, you all the time and really trust your opinion off, fabulous fabulous. I want to invest five thousand dollars for my grandsons. I birth date for college. Galaxy Minolta house when he gets older I know that it to bottle market, and I wanna invent long-term, but I want to be offensive against Delo. So what's my death way to go? All right. Here's what we're going to do. We'll get into that five thousand to one thousand each time. You get to put the five thousand in one thousand time. Why don't you do this way every other month one thousand say January then one thousand March until it's all in that way? If you do get a big self knee. Interim then put all that in that's left at once. That's my role and it's worked for me literally since nineteen seventy nine let's go to Jake up in Florida Jakup. Kramer. How are you, sir? Picking my call ticket from Tallahassee Florida T has let's go to Jim in Milton for some barbecue. Yes. Absolutely. Like question for you, sir is when there's the bear market, and I have a thought that been performing well consistently in the past. But factor the look at the site weather to get out or if you should old onto it for the long term well in the end, it's gonna come down to if it's a bear market. We're going to look for companies with incredible balance sheets that we think had not far too much money and therefore can wide it out. And then we'll ride it outright with sellers. Beware. Beware of the chicken Littles unless they're systemic risk. Be mindful when investors cry wolf much, we're mad money had including interest rate. Intrigue I'm explaining how to handle sell offs in the wake up interest rate hikes, then they cover all the ways to sell off. They could get my strategy session continues. And I'm taking all your tweets, so send your questions by way. And of course, dick way, Kramer. Tonight special survival guide edition bed money, we're discussing how to deal with brutal selloffs. Separately. How to defend against them? Take advantage of even I told you not to be glib about the systemic risk. So often involve the potential collapse of the US Konami, but those are easy to spot because it will seem like the world's flam part like in two thousand eight you don't need me for that. But now I wanna help you game out the other less dangerous kind of crash the mechanical kind caused by a broken market in a healthy economy. The best way to deal with these sudden declines is director is that there's a bottoming process when you can spot. So what did you do? I like to look for what it called accidentally high yield or so he used to call eight h wise on the show. Those are stocks of companies that are doing fine good balance. But their stocks have fallen solo dividends are starting to give it outstanding return not one that you could ever believe would be from such a high quality company. How do you spot these I like to look at the stork level of dividend yields you've gotten from certain stocks as well as the rate the tenure treasury gives you if it's typically he'll take two percent. Suddenly, it's paid double that. Because of a market why? Decline. That means the stock went down. Then you're probably looking at what we call an accidental high yield as long as the stocks going down for no particular reason. That's why I like to look at companies that are particularly sensitive to the economy second, if the U level isn't constructive or giving you opportunities I use a mechanical sell off to pick some stocks that you like and begin to buy them using what's known as wide scales. That's what I recommended during the two thousand ten flash crash pick one of the best stocks out there premier stock and buy some using limit orders. Only don't use barking orders. Please. You might end up getting terrible prices, frankly, you should never use market orders. But it's especially stupid during a crash. I like because if the market does come right back because it didn't to flash crashes you've picked up some terrific merchandise at amazing prices, then you can flip the stocks. If you want to for big profits or you can hold onto them. But thick look I demonstrated how to do this in the flash crash of two thousand ten. Nine two quarter bid for fifty thousand Proctor fire at my hedge fund. I mean, this is a good. I'm just taking up in that name. Minutes when I walked out. It was the sixty one. I'm not that interested in it. It's a forty seven well, that's a different security entirely. So what you have to do though you have to use limit orders. Because Procter just jumped seven points that I said I liked it at forty nine. So I mean, you know, you gotta be careful. That's the craziest. I'm talking about. And a lot of people ended up doing that Procter trade. So I always feel good. Remember the limit order. Vice still rings true. Now, we've covered a recognized systemic risk and have a sidestep it it. And we've talked about how to profit from many crashes how about the rest of the selves, we experience the garden variety. Pobox? Those are the most common types by far what causes these declines. Well, they're bunch of of different varieties. I you've got so offs caused by the Federal Reserve probably the most important because their top of mind, and that's the most frequent reason for stock dumping. There's a reason the business media's constantly talking about the fed when the economy's weaking Federal Reserve job is to try to restore growth as long as the fed is cutting interest rates almost every decline is a bible on unless they're systematic risk. Of course, it's just the fact of life. It's been like. They got a business. But when the economy strengthening, and perhaps even overheating the fed has a different mandate in an expansion. Its job is is to temper growth in order to stop inflation. And look the fed is right to be worried inflation erodes the purchasing power of individuals. It makes it so your dollars by fewer and fewer goods and your savings are less likely to cover your long term needs. But we don't want the fed to break the economy. And here I'm talking about the beat are kind like it did when it raise rates seventeenth straight times in lockstep going the great recession. Now, there are plenty of times in the Fed's tightening and the stock market wasn't crushed. Because the economy was crushed. However, whenever the fed tightened some prognosticators will come out of the woodwork to tell you the market will crash, or at least take a very big header, it's inevitable. So when you hear were read these comments do not panic fed rate hikes, don't necessarily crashes. In fact, I've seen plenty to next to nothing. But there are rational reasons why the stock market should. And does go down when the fed raises rates. I only one of the assets available to individuals institution. There's cold real estate. Of course, the bonds I like goal to safe haven, and I believe that every person should hold some goal, preferably Bouillon. But if not then the deal D is a hedge against inflation. But otherwise as we've seen Golez Minneapolis, protect you against much in the last two decades, Senator a hedge against a catastrophe that hasn't yet occurred real estate actual real estate can be cool hedge. But most people don't have the money you invest in the kinds of real estate that big institutions can by now, we do have real estate investment trust. But they're not reliable as a proxy for real estate. Finally, we have bonds is investment alternative and bonds are the source of the problem when the fed raises rates as the fed tightens bonds, particularly short-term piece of paper become more competitive with stocks. You'll notice that is the fed Jackson breaks high yielding dividend. Stocks are going to be among the worst performers. That's because they're yield. Suddenly look a lot less attractive versus what you get from bonds in their stocks are inherently more risky than treasury's. So please, be careful. All of these stocks as safe havens to win the sell off is caused by the fed. They're very different from accidental high yield that can spring back when the fed is tightening. The second reason why stocks can go down with generally when the fed raises rates because the fed is perfect. I keep talking about the seventeen lockstep rate hikes will cause the fed is 'perfect the fed kept tightening and tightening long after it should have stopped. They've raised rates when they shoot a stood Pat because economies already slowing or even cutting rates fast. Because of what was going on underneath when that's the case cells can materialize going to the fed meeting. And then the pain will continue after you get that kind of pullback in, you know, you need to be extra careful not to be buying any stocks, especially defensive high yielding bomb market alternative SaaS is not going to work. Here's the bottomline. Gordon body pullbacks can be gained as long as there's no systemic risk. But sell-offs in the wake and the fed raising rates those are trickier, although they can lead to decent. Opportunities as long as you stay away from the high yielders that become less attractive when the fed tightens and stick with the accidentally high yielders that might just give you that the wishes bouts when the fed is done tightening their money's back after the brain. Tonight. We're talking sell us specifically during this plot. What causes cartoon variety pullbacks? Then he comes to problem is indeed the fed a mentioned for the break. But sometimes there are other issues that are really important for starters. There's the issue of margin as a former hedge fund guy, I'm well aware that there are many times when money managers borrow more money than they should. So when the stock market goes down, they don't have the capital to meet the margin clerks demands, these kinds of margins used to clients have happened repeatedly, including the beginning of two thousand eighteen when funds that had borrowed money to bet against stock market volatility. The so-called Vicks cut their heads handed to them. They were short the vix betting, the market remained, calm stupid people and against and they bought the S and P five hundred using borrowed money again real stupid when the stock market fell. These managers were forced to sell their S and P five hundred positions in I'm wide their trades. There was so many matches doing this once that they're selling it ended up call. Zing some severe market wide losses. These margins use breakdowns often occur after several days that are where the market's damn that's why I'm often reluctant to tell you to be aggressive in the first few days of a big decline because there are always going to be more clerks against these managers who bought buy stocks with borrow money. They're going to have to keep chopping. How do you spot these clients? And when they're going to be over, you know, what I use the clock margin. Clerks don't want from Scipio on the hook for overstretched. Individuals a hedge funds so margin clerks demand, the collateral be put up raise some cash or they sell you out of your positions without your say. So I always decision the margin clerk the butcher and the butchering occurs between one and two o'clock if the selling runs its course by two forty five pm. Yes, I find it to be actually that specific. Then I think you have a decent chance to start buying safety. Stocks kind of stocks that tend not to be not to need the economy to be strong in advance to advance like healthcare stocks. You might also want to buy the stocks of the fastest growing companies with great secular theme. That work in any environment. I talk about them all the time. What else can create bible opportunities? So Ostrom overseas. I cannot tell you how often I've heard commentators who scare the bejesus out of us. Because of imported worries from say, Greece or Cyprus Turkey Venezuela. Mexico callous other places, I always tell you to ask yourself. Do it any of these woes really impact the stocks of the American companies you've invested in how much we should pay for them. You see any real impact? Do they make really make you want to pay dramatically less for an individual stock? Usually, I know, unfortunately, you can't just start by hand over fist. You should always assume there are people who don't understand how unimportant these worries are the best ethics. And of course, these people going to sell even panic sell if you would have thought that they know better. That's why these international clients often last for three days again the best way to figure it out after tons to watch the clock as the sellers usually need to be margin doubt against the world is going to be a bottom. Now, the kind of self the IPO related decline. Remember at the end of the day stock mar-. Remark. It's first and foremost end markets are controlled by supply demand. So if the Bank start rolling out, lots of new IPO's, and then those companies sell more shares via secondary offerings. You could end up in situation where there's just much too much supply not enough demand. My suggestion avoid the blast zone. Please the air most of the new IPO's concentrated and focused on the stock center down because of collateral damage. Sometimes we get the clients triggered by multiple simultaneous earnings shortfalls, you need to be real nimble with these you want to buy stocks after earnings induced pullback isolate the sectors with the shortfalls are occurring and avoid them. There's no reason to be hero here. People instead buy stocks hit by much porter selling VS be five hundred futures that have nothing to do with what went wrong, then there's the chick is kind of risk one. That's really truly Tolstoy ask political risk. I often find this risk tremendously overblown, whether it's because of strife between parties or terrain policies or even all out war with these and of course, nuclear war where money should be the last thing, you're worried about I'm not a political guy. And I hate talking about this stuff. But. With every stock you own you need to ask yourself. Does this company director and risk when it comes to Washington if not then you've got nothing to worry about. However, if you own something directly impacted by say, a trade dispute with China government shutdown that could turn to house pain. I o political risk isn't is enticing negative and fearful because there are so many pundits everywhere waiting in and giving you their two cents. These guys want to scare you my suggestion. Tune it out, please. Instead, look for companies that have nothing to do with the political fray, even as their stocks have been brought down by it. I can't do any time since nineteen seventy nine. I've seen politics used as a reason to sell stocks. They may be reason to sell some stocks. But really is anything Washington enough to sell everything? Here's about a mine there are all sorts of selloffs, but unless they involve systemic risk. They're going to prove to be buying opportunities. You just need to recognize why the solve is occurring note the signs that it might be subsiding and then take action to by not sell and never to panic stick with framer. I always said, the smartest audience television. I love the from. So let's get to some of your tweets first up at CIA eighteen fifty seven tweets. Hi, jim. I'm a little bit of dilemma, my mad money is ninety five percent allocated. But I know I should have more cash at the same time. I don't wanna sell at the bottom. What should I do? Thank you very much in advance. Okay. This is really important. Gotta listen to not sell until we get some lift. I know that a lot of people feel there will never be lift there always is. And then after the second day of after let the second you sell THEO. Okay. Next up a tweet from Todd Palley. Hey, Jim Cramer. This could be new many you hashtag Kramer, a hashtag mad money. Abc Kramer, welcome. Crame villager and makes our family. Kids got horse outs next up from at Dane, hey seed, nineteen seventy five truck truckin with Jim Cramer and audio book. That's gotten lots us. I get something more out of hashtag carefully. Every time. Thank you so much. I cannot believe how hard those audio books are to re that took me about four straight weekends. And a lot of nights. I'm glad you're getting something out of next up a tweet from at Mike house five one six Jim Cramer's mad money on CNBC a little what how will number one bulls make money bears make money pigs. Get slaughtered. Applies to my S P five hundred index fund. It's been a long run. If this is bedrock money for retirement, you do not touch it. If it's money to put away for kids. Do not touch it. I school do not touch it. I am talking about mad money that should be traded and taking some off the table. Not that basic index fund that's to be run for as long as you can stay. I like to say there's always a bull market somewhere com. Finding just for you right here. Mid money. Jim Cramer seeing time.

Federal Reserve Jim Cramer Abc Kramer US CNBC Greece Tolstoy treasury France China Klein Fidelity Investments Konami Alan Greenspan
Facebucks

The Indicator from Planet Money

09:48 min | 1 year ago

Facebucks

"If Facebook were a country, it would have the largest population in the world by a lot nearly double the population of China. It's a Konomi wouldn't be nearly that big, but it would still be considerable Facebook's country economy would be roughly the size of Croatia Costa, Rica and its currency. Well that could actually be a thing that is happening. Facebook has unveiled plans to start its own cryptocurrency cryptocurrency, like bitcoin, it's sort of like big Wayne, but corporate, we think it's a little fuzzy so far. This is the indicator from planet money. I'm Stacey Vanik Smith potty. Hirsch, these book has said it wants this new money, the libra, which it hopes to roll out next year to be the foundation for a whole new financial system, a system that would be largely outside the control of Wall Street and central banks. The details as you say, still pretty fuzzy everyone's trying to figure it. It's all a little confusing in mind bending. So prepare for a crypto headache. No, we will keep it clear. Let's get no headaches, headaches on the indicator today on the show, the libra why Facebook wants to issue a cryptocurrency and what that could mean for the company. Support for the indicator and the following message come from American Express, you want to build your business. They can help build your business with financing solutions for eligible business customers, the powerful backing of American Express, don't do business. Without it terms apply. Visit American Express dot com slash business. Support also comes from fund rise, the future of real estate. Investing access private market real estate projects from high rises in DC to multifamily apartments in LA. Get your first three months of fees waived at fund arise dot com slash indicator. Today's indicator is two point four billion. That is the number of active users Facebook has Mark Mahayni is the managing director of internet research at RBC capital markets. He says that number that two point four billion that is exactly why Facebook, crypto currency could work and could actually be pretty huge. There's like four times as many. Any users of Facebook outside of the US in Asia, and in the rest of the world. So that's Latin America, Middle East Africa cetera. There about three times as many. So this is truly global platform. I think we kind of under appreciate that. And, you know, there's a couple of companies that could do this. But one of the companies is Facebook just given how many damn users, they have, you know, in, in these in these markets, all the damn users all the time users the currencies are usually backed by governments right? The size of the government and people's faith in the government's contribute to the value of the money, but cryptocurrencies generally aren't bites by governments. They're backed by other things by groups of people who believe in them. Yes. The believers and this is why crypto enthusiasts can get so evangelical and hardcore the value of their currency depends on a lot of people agreeing to believe in it, but you don't getting a bunch of people to believe, in, especially to invest in a new currency is hard not to mention getting businesses to accept it. So it's actually useful. Most cryptocurrencies are really tiny and really obscure only a few like bitcoin have really risen above the fray, even mainstream crypto, as we're gonna call. It is pretty obscure. Sure you've heard of bitcoin. But do you know anybody who actually uses it, you know, businesses that take it, but Mark, he says, this is where Facebook's hugeness and international nece give it a massive leg-up. Facebook already has this big ecosystem of users who might see value in being able to buy things inside a Facebook with a Facebook issued currency, for instance, like a virtual cow on farmville or like a special filter on Instagram, literally that face because teamed up with a bunch of big companies like Spotify. Uber EBay, MasterCard and PayPal. They've all pledged to invest at least ten million dollars in the Facebook libra. A lot of people think they will end up partnering with Facebook and start accepting Lieber for their services. Yeah. I mean you could potentially use libra to pay for a car service to work and music streaming service to listen to on your way to work and you know, acute scar. On EBay that you happen to browse across when you're stuck in traffic, just with the companies that have signed on so far, and that could have a lot of people spending a lot of time on Facebook, kind of conducting a lot of their lives through it, it seems like Facebook's trying to become kind of the portal for everything. I mean, would that be or I may looking at this the wrong way? No one thinking about it the right way. Yeah, I haven't used the word portal in in over a decade. But yes. Portal. I stand by portal. I don't even know where to begin what you say portal anymore. No, I don't think I do say poorly more unless I'm talking about, you know, Star Trek. Ouch. Okay. Mark says is another big potential use for the libra which is payments, for example, people can send Facebook libra to relatives or friends of receives or even use it as a place to store their money. If the currency in their own country, was losing value. Also visa MasterCard of signed on, you could potentially pay your credit card Bill with Lieber or your relatives credit card Bill or even take out a loan. And Mark says Wall Street is very excited about all of the money, making possibilities wrapped up in all of this extended, there's commerce at that occurs, on your platform, almost certainly, you'll be able to get some sort of share of that. Whether it's five or ten or fifteen percents of spiff on that. Yeah. That should be enough. If you're if you're standing in between consumers and merchants. Yeah, you should be able to get a cut of that. The power of the portal, be me up. Scotty. Oh my God. Say it's a word people say anyway for all this profit potential. Mark says there could potentially be some big problems. I mean, think about it a new kind of money backed essentially by this giant corporation, that would not be subject to some of the laws that govern regular currency. And also, you know, lots of businesses, partnering together sharing lots of personal information. I mean face because an ocean of data on all of us, and I don't know. I the only one thinking that this is like the beginning of terrible scifi movie that doesn't end. Well, Mark says this is definitely uncharted. Territories in a lotta ways on the regulatory hurdles could be epic could take years, if regulars and central bankers around the world jumped on this as soon as they heard the news they were really fast to say they're going to be looking into this very carefully. Mark says the real issue for Facebook, and it could spend a ton of time and money addressing all of these concerns, only to have the Lieber gets shut down. There is though, one straight up winner in this. Scenario, no matter what happens to the libra, and that is cryptocurrency itself. Monte Greenspan is an analyst at e Toro, a brokerage that helps people invest in cryptocurrency and Monte says the crypto community is psyched. Facebook is essentially bringing massive amount of awareness to the cryptocurrency space bringing it legitimacy. And many people feel it is going to be an on ramp for cryptocurrency. It's a gateway crypto. Yeah. Gateway crypto, exactly. Bitcoins value has more than doubled. In the last few months largely because of Facebook possibly entering. The space mountain says it gives the whole idea of crypto currency, a mainstream legitimacy that it didn't really have before that. Anyone knows exactly how the real Lieber will even work. There's actually a hot debate of whether it's actually a real crypto currency at all yet, it's kind of like this weird hybrid corporate crypto thing, although Facebook has insisted it is not corporate that the libra would be controlled by this independent non. Profit organization that would be governed by the book. In addition to a bunch of the companies investing in the libra like MasterCard yet, but no matter how independent, the Lieber is or might turn out to be Monte. Greenspan says Facebook's ultimate on Beijing is pretty clear. Facebook is trying to do. They're trying to become financial institution. Is it a slam dunk, heck? No. I mean, there's so many things that can go wrong along the way. And it's not just the regulatory hurdles Monte says there could be a problem getting people to actually use the libra after all he says, currency is all about trust and Facebook has a pretty major trust problem right now actually deleted the Facebook app from my phone few months ago, will the hashtag delete Facebook was trending, the privacy stuff that got you the privacy stuff, the data stuff, all of this cryptocurrencies generally are relying on the, the principle of transparency and trust system. So I, I mean, a lot of people don't have a lot of trust in the Facebook rand at the moment. But even if the Facebook libra fails Mountie says the genie's out of the bottle, he says, no adult that the Silicon Valley giants are gathering in boardrooms this week to drool over the profit, possibilities, and the corporate partnerships that could come with. I don't know the Google galleon the Amazon peso the, the net flicks jacket ducats that gets good one, the apple loon. No. I think just the apple just the apple apple if you could just think, apple so big you could just it would just be the the apple. How do you like them? Apples. This episode was produced by Dr is RAFI on edited by paddy Hirsch and fact, checked by Emily laying the indicator is a production of NPR.

Facebook libra Mark Mahayni Lieber cryptocurrency paddy Hirsch MasterCard American Express Monte Greenspan apple Stacey Vanik Smith American Express China Rica Monte Croatia Costa EBay Wayne
Mad Money w/Jim Cramer 08/02/19

MAD MONEY W/ JIM CRAMER

00:00 sec | 1 year ago

Mad Money w/Jim Cramer 08/02/19

"Technology is becoming more open data more accessible on the world more innovative. We're confining the industry expertise of IBM with the open source leadership red hat to bring you more freedom more security more flexibility. Let's unlock the world's potential. Let's put smart to work learn more at I._B._M.. Dot Com slash slash red hat. Mission is simple to make you money. I'm here to level the playing field investors. There's always the summer and I promised help you find mad. Money starts now. I'm cramer. Welcome at money any welcome to America people. WanNa make France. I'm just trying to make some money by job center team but educating teachers a call me at one eight hundred sixty three or tweet me Jim in Kramer tough days don't last forever but when it come on you need to know how to respond you need a game plan totally developed and and ready so you can decide what kind of self we're dealing with. I wish I could say that. We always know how to respond but the early days of decline well. They're never easy to navigate I borrow from tolstoy's Fabulous Anna Karenina. All happy. Rallies are alike. Each selloff is unhappy be in its own way. It's so true. Bull markets send stocks higher and everyone thinks they're genius for dissipating in them. It seems so darn easy declines because they could be the start of a bear market. They could be just the beginning of something unfathomable or they they might actually be a by Lynch. That's why I WANNA use history to try to identify some of the common qualities so that you can figure out how to handle these inevitable moments moments of weakness without panicking. I let me offer some historically constructive words of relief sanity and real not phony but reassurance there have only been two truly horrendous sell off since I started investing nine hundred seventy nine the one day crash of Nineteen eighty-seven and the rolling rolling crash of two thousand seven to two thousand nine I could have done the Nasdaq crash but the S. and P. L. Pretty well. Let's deal with these two big ones though head on because because these two declines are great examples the polar opposites of each other even as the percentage the clients were somewhat similar on October Nineteenth Nineteen eighty-seven black doc Monday the Dow fell five hundred hundred twenty two percent in a single session twenty two percent of his trading that day and even as the previous week had been one of the worst weeks market history Monday hit fast hit hard. It was almost as if there were no buyers to be found from. Dow Two thousand two hundred forty six with a crash started to dow seventeen eight hundred thirty eight where it ended that day it was telling a friend into the clothes I remember thinking I remember thinking saved by the bell accept. It felt like there weren't many left to be saved but most people don't remember as I mentioned is that the week before was one of the market's worst weeks ever as doubt already plunged from Gal Twenty five hundred to twenty to forty five. That's the ten percent club that encourage bargain hunters and it turned out to be classic bad money in retrospect because these intrepid souls that they could flip Monday morning in some strength rain and that strength never developed in fact the weakness that they were buying occurred the next day in what became known as terrible Tuesday where the Dal actually he kind of just broke down the market simply stop functioning but you know what I was there and I was actually able to calculate that bottom the actual bottom that occurred her and it was around fourteen hundred off another sphere and thirty eight points from where the market close implant flack one day then Fed Chairman Alan Greenspan step stopped the decline in these tracks when he said he'd provide all quitting necessary to stabilize the market. I still remember that Green Line. When it came over your screen he listed multiple first round Wall Street to help put in the bottom and the market states remarkable two-day rally that took us up more than five hundred points. The effects of the crash lasted for three months when we had a retested held but it took almost sixteen months until the averages returned to where they were trading before this big break down the bear market began October two thousand seven. It was totally different animal. The Dow fell from fourteen thousand eight hundred sixty four. It didn't bottom until March of two thousand nine when it landed six thousand five hundred forty seven. We didn't return to that how in two thousand seven level to watch two thousand thirteen. Why did one off and so quickly while the other took six years? That's the question that defines the two extremes of unhappy offs the initial one black Monday was mechanical so off the first one I can remember that occurred simply because the stock market failed to be able to function. It's it's instructive to unpacked black Monday because the way it played out was reminiscent of two other crashes the Flash Crash Twenty ten and it's Dapo Ganger in two thousand fifteen. You may have heard theories about what causes these spree crashes but most of them are wrong. Okay all three started with the stock market futures yes and P five hundred futures in Chicago Overwhelming Wall Street New York. We're the stocks underneath a traitor. They happen to the stock. Traders didn't understand the power of the futures market which could flood the stock market with instant unseen supply these these days we accepted the futures are worth watching but wasn't like that back then because they were relatively new instruments founded five years before the crash the power of the future snuck a couple of people because they were they were initially a much smaller market than the stocks themselves because of the great liquidity though the ease with which portfolio manager you can go in and out of them. They became the most powerful drivers in stock prices even more powerful than the actual performance of the underlying companies that stocks are meant to represent underlying companies earnings used to mean much more now. It's really these futures that matter. The thing is even with relatively new impact of futures black. Monday was unusual. We had had a big run going into eighty. He's seven remarkable multi rallied with nary substantial decline and don't I know it. I love Goldman Sachs that year to start my own hedge fund because my returns had been so bountiful. Ah The more you rally creates stupendous games that a group of clever sales people started selling what clay what they claimed were insurance policies they could locking gains and stop out losses for big funds so called portfolio insurance involved what was known as dynamic heggie would sound sounds so dynamic hedging. These specialists said that using futures you could ensure that you would no longer be exposed to stock market risk say down five percent ten percent or whatever the policy. Halsey took out determine the idea was that they let you side stepped the the law after labs. I said the losses is impossible to do that. Unfortunately unfortunately much like Communism portfolio insurances well conceived in theory but it doesn't work it live. The losses will kick didn't want some black. Bundy and insurance didn't work if anything anything the future selling from insurance accelerated the decline and costs incredibly large losses for the actual insurance. The people who sold these policies were charlatans and Mount bunks folks. They were never exposed to such of interest now but that's exactly they were. There's no magic trick. Get the returns from investing in the Stock Martin without much of the risk. Don't anyone ever tells you any different. Of course it's time. We didn't know that the power of the futures could cause a crash. We figured where there's smoke. There's fire if the market crash. There's gotta be something real with the economy. Simply has to be a recession lurking there had to at least that's what we taller cells the economists strong going the eighty seven crash and it was strong coming out of it. There just wasn't any economic correlation with black Monday at all it was the interplay between Chicago and New York that set off the conflict gration and when the Treasury Department examine what occurred that day in a Utah report it concluded the future future said off so much sally that some specialist firms on the floor of the exchange and some brokerage houses failed to step up and stabilize the tape the latter ladder had no duty to do so but the former were supposed to do it and treasury found that many didn't do their jobs. I was fortunate enough to being cash on black Monday having liquidated but liquidated my portfolio early in the previous week because the market had acted so badly it made my career for the next fourteen years of professional issue money management. I could show perspective investors that I had sidestepped the crash for real. They thought I was a genius but the truth is I was just frightened of the the market and wanted to regroup but as I never tire saying it's better to be lucky than good so here's the bottomline sometimes crashes have nothing to do with the economy author caused by the mechanics of the market stay tuned for more examples of this kind of declined and the more serious Hannibal the market two thousand seven two thousand nine C.. You can figure out what to do when it happened. Let's go to Keith in Texas cave. Hey Jim how're you doing doing. I'm well. How about you pretty good. <hes> my question is hey. How do you decide when a correction like we had back in February has made a bottom and it's okay okay to get back into the market. Well what I like to do is elect to see try to get a sense on whether the selling has run its course and what it takes to do that is to be able. I you get a level where it bounces and then it comes back and test that level it that second test as we call it holds holds then it's more than likely that you have to come back from the sidelines and I sometimes crashes have nothing to do with the economy they have to do with the mechanics so the market knowing how to respond is essential to your money on money tonight myself strategy session continues. Don't Miss my take on the micro. Crash is that may be sure but could have lasting effects when you view investing then you might know chicken little and the boy who cried wolf from fairy tales but they also play a role in the stock market market is it all the feds fall not always online the rational reasons rational that the market declines when it comes to the Central Bank <music> so stick with cream. Don't miss a second of mad money follow at Jim Cramer on twitter I.. I have a question tweet Gramer Hashtag mad tweets send Jimmy Mail to mad money at C._N._B._C. dot com or give us a call at one eight hundred seven four three C._n._B._C.. Something Ed Tha Mad Money Dutt C._N._B._C. Dot Com in Asia remains the fastest growing region in the world and will wake up two thirds of global middle class consumption by the year twenty fifty at Matthews Asia. We've been investing in Asia for over twenty five years and our mission is to champion Asia focused investment solutions the May profit from this growth and build wealth for our global clients over the long term find out what a dedicated allocation to Asia cannot to your portfolio at Matthews Asia Dot com slash opportunity welcome back to a special S. Joel how to deal with all sorts of declines edition of Man my name we've already covered with hot in the crash eighty seven how wasn't really related to the economy shocker so it was okay to buy stocks that we this nineteen eighty-seven was a rare opportunity that took a little time to reveal itself but when it did Ooh la La aw was also the first inside the s and p futures exercising their pernicious power over individual stocks they were like playthings stocks Fox sadly was the first of many which brings me to the fable flash crash of twenty ten. What are those negative moments that drove away so many investors who never came? I'm back to stocks because they didn't know their value could be destroyed so quickly almost wims clea who wants to keep their life savings instruments instruments that can blow up in the blink of an eye what happened at June. It was pretty much the same deals black money of eighty seven the futures overwhelm the stock market and buyers just walked away betting there had to be something subset behind the destruction. It couldn't just be the machines breaking down for heaven's sake plus crash started to thirty two two P._M.. May Six two thousand ten it lasted for thirty six minutes and that thirty six minutes the Dow fell almost one thousand points from roughly the ten thousand level. It was member for me me because I happen to be on T._v.. At the same time some money managers have been speculating that the market was going down precipitously because riots Greece oh queens was on everyone's mind back then because there have been endless worries Henry about what would happen if the Greeks defaulted on their bonds others pinned it on newfound weakness in the U._S.. Economy which for the record there really wasn't any passerbys. I had the benefit of trading on black Monday. I recognize exactly where what it really was. When it was happening now the situation where the futures were overwhelming stocks and the machines were breaking we we didn't know at the time but a gigantic Aaron Selwyn or caused tremendous fear that spread like wildfire many buyers simply disappear? They didn't want to wait around to find out what was causing the landslide landslide. They just wanted to get away from it as fast as they could. One Air I call them. The phony sell off because the declining no basis at economic reality which made it a a tremendous buying opportunity what we're seeing right. Now I mean maybe I believe maybe unprecedented their sock. which stupid cupid system obviously broke down replying from machines failed obviously broke? This job didn't work at broke down. The machines broke down. That's what happens. It didn't work. The machines broke down and that's what happened on that later. Well some listening actually bought stocks. Komo GonNa talk about that too. Many people simply didn't believe equities could be that fragile was shocking in all the years. I've been doing this show. I hope I've taught you that stocks are not hard assets. Let's they're subject to all sorts of whims that can reduce their value in a heartbeat including mechanical issues like those that happened during that thirty six minutes Selwyn anyway the market you quickly regained its equilibrium but not before another round of individual investors left the asset class entirely and never came back. Okay how about twenty fifteen so off with the Dow fell one thousand points. Why did they open that will seemingly related to fears that the Fed was it's in raise interest rates right into the week at this in the CIA after what was happening in the Chinese market not our market as the Chinese market just eight percent in a single day many seem to forget but back then the Chinese market was the most dominant negative story out there as people fretted that the whole economic edifice of the P. R. C. could collapse from too much leverage and too little liquidity so l.? I thought I find myself air at all. The right time witnessed these events that Friday for the cell had been a monstrously ugly days a fed official late in the afternoon June had suggested it was time to raise rates despite the Chinese sell off it was an aggressive statement that demonstrated a cavalier attitude toward the markets ugly but also fragile mood when we came in on Monday August twenty fourth. We heard that there were some very large sell order some places for major stocks. I mean we we weren't ready for the gap down. We saw we'll pick capitalization. Stocks were shedding hundreds of billions of dollars value with many twenty percent down as the market open like the crash I should maybe seven it was very tough to tell what the real prices were. The confusion was that horrific it was like the fog of war the training but VAL ended up tally a decline of of about one thousand points when the smoke cleared at ten o'clock. I my partner some squawk on the street. We're pretty stymied at the time you know what I remember. Turning David Faber the Chad about the meaning of the sell off in the midst of the conflict gration his reaction Priceless The Dallas House down a thousand Zain points and the wall says on some of these names U._N._H.. Verizon G._e.. Down Thirteen I I don't I I gotta make some phone calls. That's these are someone boss. These are enormous moves. GonNa make some phone uncles. I remember what he said. Yeah that's it. I gotTa make some costs. That's how confused we were again. We figured the had to be something that if you get the kind of decline right that'd be something going on the economy. Some somebody knew something. We did something mysterious something other worldly something nefarious. Maybe China actually collapsed. Maybe there've been something that occurred in Europe we didn't know about the economy is still fragile. That warranted the decline. I was suspicious officious though suspicious because some of the hardest hit stocks were the recession proof names especially the biotechs which for some reason declined harder than almost all the rest of the market think about about that that shouldn't be happening if there was really something wrong with the economy. That's what people buy. Those talks are often the safest of havens moments when it's the economy that's at work once again. I suggested just machines that were causing the problem that the future should overwhelm the stocks and into computers they'd gone haywire by mid morning. We learn that was exactly the case case and the stock market underwent a beautiful metamorphosis a furious rally jumping five hundred points from the bottom strong stomach buyers came in and took advantage wjr that opportunity the economy is gaining strength not losing it but a thoughtful fed actually wasn't about to tighten with not with China teetering excellent time to buy stocks. Why was there such fear and confusion at the time of both the two thousand ten in two thousand fifteen minute crashes? I think investors weren't ready for either flash crash because post nineteen eighty-seven and the government put him known as circuit breakers there were supposed to cruel these declines by stopping trading momentarily but these circuit breakers created a false sense of security that oddly we still exist today even as they failed to work properly both occasions did very little to stop the destruction so please when you hear talk of circuit breakers protecting you from fast declines. No no don't believe it can't be legislated or regulated out of the market it will always be there. There will always be people react horribly after after initial then even that event mechanical naturally substantive in nature so what's the bottom line here if you can determine whether so office caused by the mechanics of the market breaking down then you might have an incredible buying opportunity I though you have to figure out whether the SELLOFF is related to the fundamentals economy if it is then state who if if it isn't stay tuned in any way but recognize that you have a first class panic in your hands and nobody ever made a dime panicking but boy oh boy did they coin money taking the other her side of the trade. We're going to Jeff in Florida Jeff Your Majesty mad money. It's an honor your very very what's going on. You're welcome. Here's my question Jim. Is there an equation of formula rule of thumb anything to dictate when or especially what percentage of profits to take off the table and really good gains or grabs. We you know what I had the show's influx at all times. I always try to measure these things and what I've come to realize is that I used to tell people when things were really bad in the market yeah look up twenty five per cent. Take some off the table but for actual owners plus COM learn. It's gotta be a little more patient that when you have a really good stock goes up fifty percent then you start taking somewhat and then a hundred percent percent then you take out that you take out your basis now let's put in and then you let the rest ride on not as anxious to trade or recommend in trading as I used to like water investing situations long remember nobody ever made a dime panicking okay. If a soap is caused by the mechanics of the mortgage. You may actually have an incredible buying up to what's made money. The lock is falling the modest born. It's more than just a nurse. You could teach you a lot about any As trading fidelity brokerage services L._L._C. member N._Y._S._e.. S._I._P._C. Tonight's special survival guide edition bed money. We're discussing how to deal with brutal sell-offs simply how to defend against them. Take advantage of even. I told you not to be Glib about the systemic risk so often involve the potential collapse of the U._S. economy but those are easy to spot because it will seem like the world's Flam like in two thousand eight. You don't need me for that but now I WANNA help you game out the other less dangerous kind hind crash the mechanical kind caused by a broken market in a healthy economy. The best way to deal with these sudden declines is directing is that there's a bottoming process when you can spot what do I look for what are called accidentally high yield or so used to call A. H.. Wise on the show those are stocks companies that are doing fine and have a good balance sheets but their stocks have fallen so well dividends are starting to give you an outstanding return not one that you could ever believe would be from such a high quality company. How'd you spot these? I like look at the historic level. We'll dividend yields. You've gotten from certain stocks as well as the rate the ten year Treasury gives you if it's docked typically you'll take two percent suddenly his pay double that because of a market wide decline it means the stock went down then you're probably looking at what we call an accidental high yield as long as the stocks going down for no particular reason. That's why I like to look at companies is that are particularly sensitive to the economy second. If you've level isn't constructive or giving you opportunities I use a mechanical sell off to pick some stocks that you like and beginning to buy them using what's known as wide skills. That's what I recommended. During the twenty ten flash crash pick one of the best stocks out there premier stock and buy some using limit orders only don't use market orders booze. You might end up getting terrible prices. Frankly you should never use market orders but it's especially stupid during a crash Smith because if the market does come right back because it didn't to flash crashes you've picked up some terrific merchandise at amazing prices then you can flip the stocks if you want want to for big profits or you can hold on thick look I demonstrated how to do this in the flash crash twenty and ten forty nine and a quarter bid for fifty thousand proctor Dr Fire at my Hedge Fund I mean this is just taking that that name down in the past few minutes I walked out. It was a sixty one. I'm not that interested in it. It's a forty eighty seven well. That's a different security entirely so what you have to do though you have to use limit orders because procter just jumped seven points that I said I liked it at forty nine so I mean you know you gotta be careful. That's that's craziness. I'm talking about and a lot of people ended up doing that. Procter trade so I always feel good. Remember the limit order vice still rings true now. We've covered how to recognize systemic. Has Democrats can have a sidestep. We talked about how to profit from many crashes. How about the rest of the selves? We experienced garden variety pobox. Those are the most common types by far what causes this is Easter clients or their bunch of of different varieties. I you've got so offs caused by the Federal Reserve probably the most important because their top of mind and that's the most frequent reason for stock dumping. There's a reason that business media's constant talking about the Fed when the economy is weakening Federal Reserve job is to try to restore growth as long as the Fed is cutting interest rates. Almost every decline is a the Bible and on Wester Systemic risk of course just a fact of life. It's been like that since I got business but when the economy strengthening and perhaps even overheating the Fed has a different different mandate in an expansion its job is to temper growth in order to stop inflation and look the Fed is right to be worried. Inflation erodes the purchasing power of individuals. The job makes US dollars by fewer and fewer goods and your savings are less likely to cover your long term needs but we don't want the Fed to break the economy and here. I'm talking about the B.. We are a K- kind like it did when it raise rates seventeenth straight times in lockstep going the great recession now there are plenty of times in the Fed's tightening the stock market wasn't crushed because because the economy wasn't crushed however whenever the Fed tightened some prognosticators will come out of the woodwork to tell you the market will crash or at least take a very big header. It's inevitable so when you hear these comments do not panic fed rate hikes. Don't necessarily the crashes in fact I've seen plenty to next to nothing but there are rational national reasons why the stock markets shoot and does go down when the Fed raises rates I only one of the assets available to individuals institution. There's gold real estate of of course bonds. I like gold as a safe haven and I believe that every person should wholesome goal preferably Bouillon but if not then the DOD is a hedge against inflation but otherwise is a as we've seen goal has been able to protect you against much in the last two decades sitter a hedge against a catastrophe that hasn't yet occurred real estate actual real estate can be good who'd hedge but most people don't have the money to invest in the kinds of real estate too big institutions can by now we do have real estate investment trust but they're not reliable as a proxy for Real Estate. Finally we have bonds is investment term. Bonds are the source of the problem when the Fed raises rates as the Titans Bah bonds particularly short-term piece of paper become more competitive additive with stocks. You'll notice that is fed. Jackson breaks high yielding dividend stocks are going to be among the worst performers. That's because they're yields suddenly look a lot less attractive versus what you get if bonds in their stocks are inherently more risky than Treasury's so please be careful of these stocks is safe havens to win. The sell off is caused by the fit. They're very different. I'm from accidental high dealers. They can spring back when the Fed is tightening the second reason why stocks can go down legitimate when the Fed raises rates because the Fed is perfect nick I keep talking about the seventeen lockstep rate hikes will cause the Fed is imperfect the Fed kept tightening and tightening long after it should have stopped they've raise rates when they should have stood pat because economy has already slowing or even cutting rates fast because of what was going on underneath when that's the case cells can materialize going to the Fed meeting and then the pain will continue after you get that kind of pull back in you know you need to be extra careful not to be aggressive buying any stocks especially defensive defensive high yielding bomb market alternative is not going to work. Here's the bottom line. Gordon variety pullbacks can be gained as long as there's no systemic risk but sell-offs in the awaken the Fed raising rates those are trickier although they can lead to decent opportunities as long as you stay away from the high yielders become less attractive when the Fed tightens and stick with the accidentally high yielders that might just give you that delicious ballots when the Fed is done tight their money's back at the break <music> tonight tonight's special survival guide edition money we're discussing how to deal with brutal sell-offs simply how to defend against them. Take advantage of even. I told you not to be Glib about the systemic risk so often involve the potential collapse of the U._S. economy but those are easy to spot because it will seem like the rules Flam <unk> like in two thousand eight you need me for that but now I WANNA help you game out the other less dangerous kind of crash. The mechanical kind caused by a broken lookin market in a healthy economy. The best way to deal with these sudden declines direction is that there's a bottoming process when you can spot so what did you do. I like to look for what are called accidentally and Lee high yield or so he used to a h wise on the show this stocks of companies that are doing fine and have good balance but their stocks have fallen so well dividends after starting to give you an outstanding return you ever believe would be from such a high quality company. How do you spot these? I like to look at the historic level dividend yields. You've gotten from certain stocks as well as the rate the ten year Treasury gives you if you'll take two percent suddenly is paid double that because of a market wide decline that means the stock went down then you're probably looking at what we call an accidental accidental high yield as long as the stocks going down for no particular reason. That's why I like to look at companies that are particularly sensitive to the economy second. If you've level level isn't constructive or or giving you opportunities I use a mechanical sell off to pick some stocks that you like and beginning to buy them using what's known as wide scales. That's what I recommended. During the two thousand ten flash crash PICK ONE OF THE BEST stocks out there premier stock and buy some using limit orders only don't lose you might end up getting terrible prices. Frankly you should never use more orders but it's especially stupid during a crash I like because if the market does come right back to flash crashes you've picked up some terrific merchandise at amazing prices then you can flip the stocks. If you want to for big profits or you can hold on thick. Oh look I demonstrated mistreated how to do this in the flash crash twenty and ten forty nine and a quarter bid for fifty thousand proctor fire at my hedge fund I mean this is just taking. It's an incredibly not name Sasha minutes. When I walked out it was a sixty one? I'm not that interested in it. It's a forty seven well. That's a different security entirely so what you have to do those of us limit orders because procter just seven points that I said I liked it at forty nine so I mean you know you gotta be careful. That's the craziest I'm talking about. A lot of people ended up doing that. Procter Dr Trade so I always feel good remember the limit order by still rings true now we've covered how to recognize systemic risk and how to sidestep and we've talked about how to profit from many any crashes. How about the rest of the experience the garden variety pobox those are the most common types by far what causes these declines their bunch of of different varieties? I got so off caused by the Federal Reserve probably the most important because their top of mind and that's the most frequent reason for stock dumping. There's a reason of business media's constantly talking about the Fed when the economy is weakening the Federal Reserve jobs to try to restore growth as long as the Fed is cutting interest rates. Almost every decline is a Bible in on Wester Systemic risk of course. It's just a fact of of life it's been like that since they got the business but when the economy strengthening and perhaps even overheating the Fed has a different mandate in the expansion its job is to is is to temper growth in order to stop inflation and look the Fed is right to be worried. Inflation erodes the purchasing power of individuals it makes us feel your dollars by fewer and fewer goods and your savings or less likely to cover your long term means but we don't want the Fed to break the economy and here I'm talking about the beat art k kind Seventeenth Straight Times in lockstep going into recession. Now there are plenty of times in the Fed's tightening the stock market wasn't crushed because the economy was crushed however whenever the Fed tighten some prognosticators will come out of the work to tell you the market will crash or at least take a very big header. It's inevitable so when you hear read these comments do not panic attack fed rate hikes. Don't necessarily the crashes in fact I've seen plenty to next to nothing but there are rational reasons why the stock markets shoot and does go down when the the Fed raises rates. I only one of the assets available to individual institution. There's real estate of course the bonds I like gold as a safe haven and I believe that every person person should hold some gold preferably billion but if not then the deal is a hedge against inflation but otherwise as we've seen Golez Minneapolis protect you against much in the last two decades senator a hedge against a catastrophe that hasn't yet occurred real estate actual real estate can be good hedge but most people don't have the money you invest in the kinds of real take the big institutions can by now we do have real estate investment trust but they're not reliable as a proxy for real estate. Finally we have bonzes investment term in bonds are the source the problem when the Fed raises rates as the Fed tightens Bah bonds particularly short-term piece of paper become more competitive with stocks. You'll notice that is the Fed Jackson breaks high yielding living dividend stocks are going to be among the worst performers. That's because they're yields suddenly look a lot less attractive versus what you get bonds in their stocks are inherently more risky than Treasury's so so please be careful. A stock safe havens to win. The selloff is caused by the Fed. They're very different from accidental high. Yours can spring back when the Fed it is tightening the second reason why stocks can go down legitimate when the Fed raises rates because the Fed is perfect. I keep talking about those seventeen. Lockstep rate hikes well. The Fed is imperfect. The Fed kept tightening and tightening long after it should have stopped. They've raised rates when they shoot a stood pat because economists already pretty slow or even cutting rates fast because of what was going on underneath when that's the case cells can materialize going to the Fed meeting and then the pain will continue after you get that kind of pull back in you know you need to be extra careful not to be aggressive buying any stocks especially the defensive high-yielding bond market alternatives is not going to work work. Here's the bottom line garden. Variety pullbacks can be gained as long as there's no systemic risk but sell offs the wake and the Fed raising rates those are trickier although they can lead to decent opportunities as long as you stay away from the high yielders become less attractive when the Fed tightens and stick with the accidentally high yielders that might just timmy that delicious ballots when the Fed is darn tight money back at the break and we're talking cell loss specifically during this block what Causes Garden Variety pobox many times problem the Fed as I mentioned before the break but sometimes there are other issues that are really important for starters. There's the issue of margin as a former hedge fund guy. I'm well aware that there are many times when money managers borrow more money than they should so when the stock market goes down they don't have the capital to meet the margin Arjun corks demands these margin used to clients have happened repeatedly including the beginning of two thousand eighteen when funds that had borrowed money to bet against stock market volatility holy the so-called Vicks got their heads. They were short the vix betting the market remained calm stupid people and against them. They bought the S. and P. Five hundred hunter using borrowed money again real stupid when the stock market fell these managers were forced to sell their S. and P. Five hundred positions in I'm wide their trees. There was so many matches doing just once that they're selling it ended up causing severe market wide losses. These mortgages breakdowns often occur after several days that are where the market's damn that's why <music> I'm often reluctant to tell you to be aggressive in the first few days of a big decline because there are always going to be margin clerks against these managers who bought buy stocks with borrow money. They're going to have to keep chopping chopping. How do you spot the lines and when they're going to be over? You know what I use the clock margin clerks don't want their firms to be on the hook for overstretched individuals hedge funds sounds so margin clerks demand the collateral put up raise some cash or they sell you out of your positions without your say so I always consider the margin clerk the butcher and the butchering during occurs between one and two o'clock. If the selling runs its course by two forty five PM. Yes I find it to be actually that specific then. I think you have a decent chance to start buying MM safety stocks. The kind of stocks do tend not to be not to need the economy to be strong in advance to advance like healthcare stocks. You might also want to buy the stocks of the fastest growing in companies with great secular themes that were in any environment and I talk about them all the time. What else can create Bible opportunities so awesome overseas? I cannot tell you how often I've heard commentators who scare the Bejesus out of us because of imported worries from say Greece or Cyprus Turkey Venezuela Mexico countless other places. I always tell you to ask yourself. Self woes really impact the stocks of the American companies. You've invested in how much we should pay for them Jersey any real impact do they make really make you you want to pay dramatically less for individual stock usually no unfortunately you can't just start by hand over fist. You should always assume there are people who don't understand Stan how unimportant these worries are the best things and of course these people going to sell even panic sell if you would have thought that they know better that's why these international clients often lasts for three days again the best way to figure out if through tons to watch the clock as a sellers usually need to be margin doubt against the world. There's going to be a bottom the kind of self the I._P._O.. Related decline remember at the end of the day stock markets are more. It's first and foremost end markets are controlled by supply demand so if the back start rolling out lots of new I._P._O.'s and then those companies sell more shares bears via secondary offerings you could end up situation where there's just much too much supply not enough demand my suggestion avoid the blast zone. Please the air most of the new I._P._O.'s are concentrated and focused on the stocks that are down because of collateral damage. Sometimes we get declines triggered by multiple simultaneous earnings shortfalls. You need to be real nimble. These you WANNA buy stocks after earnings induced was pulled back isolate. The sectors with shortfalls are occurring and avoid them. There's no reason to be hero here. People instead buy stocks that have been hit by much Puerto Selling V._V._S. and be five hundred futures that have nothing to do with what went wrong then. There's the chickens kind of risks one. That's really truly tolstoy. Ask political risk. I often find this risk tremendously overblown whether it's because because of strife between parties or policies or even all out war with the exception of course of nuclear war where money should be the last thing you're worried about. I'm not a political guy and I. Hey talking about this stuff with every stock you own. You need to ask yourself. Does this company director needs risk when it comes to Washington if not then you've got nothing to worry about however if you on something that's directly impacted by say a trade dispute with China government shutdown that could turn house pain. I O political risk is enticingly negative and fearful because there are so many many pundits everywhere waiting in and get their two cents. These guys want to scare you. My suggestion tune it out. Please instead look for companies that have nothing to do with the political fray even as their stocks have been brought down by it. I can't tell you how many times since nineteen seventy nine I've seen. Politics used as a reason to sell stocks. They may be reason to sell some stocks but really is anything Washington enough to sell everything here's about a mine. There are all sorts of sell offs but unless they involve systemic risk. They're going to prove to be buying opportunities. You just need to recognize why the solve is occurring no signs that it might be subsiding and then take action to buy not sell and never to panic stick wife Kramer you know me I always said add the smartest audience and television. I love to hear from you so let's get to some of your tweets first up at C._I._A.. Eighteen fifty seven tweets hi Jim. I'm a little bit of a dilemma Emma. My mad money is ninety five percent allocated but I know I should have more cash at the same time. I don't want to sell at the bottom. What should I do? Thank you very much in advance okay. This is really important. You gotTA listen me. Do not sell until we get some lift. I know that a lot of people feel there will never be lift. There always is and then after the second in day of the after the second day you sell it the opening okay next up a tweet from Todd Palley. Hey Jim Cramer. This could be new. Many you Hashtag Kramer a Hashtag mad muddy. Hey Kramer welcome Manmohan Kramer Seville veteran and make some friends kids got horse sense next up from Dave. Hey see in nineteen seventy-five truck and with Jim Cramer and audio book. That's gotten lots of us. I get something more out of Hashtag carefully every time thank you so much. I cannot believe how hard those audio books are to re. That took me about four straight weekends and a lot of nights. I'm glad you getting something out of next up a tweet from at Mike House five one six it Jim Cramer may have money on C._N._B._c. a little what how who number one bulls make money bears make money pigs get slaughtered applies to my p. five hundred index fund. It's been a long run. If this bedrock money for retirement you do not touch it. If it's money to put away for kids you do not touch for school. Do not touch it. I am talking about mad money that should be traded and taking some off the table not that basic Jason Index fought. That's be run for as long as you can. Stay still. I like to say there's always a market summer. aecom shot finding just for you right here mad money. I'm Jim Cramer Cenex time. Hey I'm John Harwood host of C._N._B._C. Speakeasy podcast listening to my in depth conversations with political decision-makers folks like John Delaney need the first declared Democratic presidential candidate for election twenty twenty along with Senator Sherrod Brown

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#235: Julia Greenspan, ND - Author, Rising Above Lyme Disease

Lyme Ninja Radio - Lyme Disease

1:14:39 hr | 1 year ago

#235: Julia Greenspan, ND - Author, Rising Above Lyme Disease

"All the golden calling only juice. It's time for lime ninja radio. Today. Radio. Didn't it doesn't match the model? That's currently out there. And I realized that early on the model that's currently out there as far as dieting in my opinion, as far as guiding doctors as how to treat line didn't match. What I was seeing in the patient population as far as what was being offered for treatment, what people how people are being turned away that had obvious symptoms. This podcast is sponsored by the lime ninja symptom tracker. I'm so excited to tell you about our new Lyme ninja symptom tracker. One of the things I hear over and over again, whether it's talking to a patient in my office or consulting over the phone with the client is just how difficult it is to keep track of progress on their lime journey recording symptoms daily or even weekly gives them too many data points. There's so many ups and downs twists and turns at some point, they get lost and confused. The lime ninja symptom tracker takes all the guesswork out a tracking symptoms with the simple monthly questionnaire once a month is the perfect interval deceive that new supplement or protocol is working right now. When you take the symptom, tracker, questionnaire, we give you a simple composite score for the month, but we had big plans, and the data, you enter will not be loss as we roll out new features. Best of all, it's free. Just head on over to Lyman into radio. Dot com slash tracker. And sign up that's lime an injured radio dot com slash tracker. You'll be glad you did. Join us every Thursday night tunes for the latest episode of lime ninja radio. Hello I'm your lime journey guide. Mckay Ripi, and this is episode number two hundred thirty five with the author of rising above lime disease. Naturopathic doctor, Julia Greenspan. Also welcome our show producer and the brains behind lime ninja radio Aurora everybody. And in this episode you're going to learn three main. Thanks, number one. How much time should you wait for new protocol to work before you? Give up on it. Number two, why developing healthy mindset starts with setting boundaries. And how putting yourself I is the most unselfish thing you can do. Thanks ROY, and a big shoutout to all you longtime a lime ninjas. You're the reason we have more than half a million downloads Aurora. And I really appreciate you tuning in, and we'd like to welcome all those new listeners out there. Welcome to. Lime ninja radio. You're now officially alignment, you welcome everybody. And as you know, lime disease is an international problem each week. We have listeners join you from all over the world. And this past week, we've had listeners, tune in from Colombia to Canada, and from India to Estonia, or tell us a little bit about today's guests Julia Greenspan doctor. Julia Greenspan is a natural path who graduated from the university of natural medicine in two thousand six she founded her practice in New Hampshire and quickly started trading lime disease. She contracted, Lyme herself and his now raided a top line literate Dr in New Hampshire and in March, she published a book rising above lime disease to support patients and families fighting line. You know, there's nothing like getting lime disease to really open your eyes to everything. There's a pun me, you don't get it till you get it. And doctors who have family members or themselves had Lyme disease are really at the forefront of pushing forward, so best we can do as chairman it's, it's great to have them in the lime community taking care of us. So yeah, you go first. The little low energy right now. Why did you want to talk to Dr Greenspan as you know, we're beginning to lay the foundation for our lime journey roadmap what we've discovered after doing two hundred and thirty what is the thirty five to one hundred thirty four episodes is that most people don't have the basic roadmap and I'm not talking about a specific protocol, like the Cowden protocol, or buehner protocol something like that. But in overall roadmap how you gonna get from where you are right now to lime free. Lease feeling. Yes, I say lime free. I use that term free loosely sent hate mail about it. We know maybe they're maybe not. But anyway, you winning with lime disease like it's no longer an issue. You don't worry about it. I mean that's the ultimate goal. How great would that be just live your life? And just live the life, you wanna live and not worry about, or do you run out of energy today, or you have to pay for it tomorrow type of thing. That's what we're talking about. And Dr Greenspan's book really gets into the first phase. So we, we separated this map this journey the lime journey into three phases. And the first phase is the reboot days as kind of what you take stock aware, you are a lot of times, it has to do with resolve not resolving, but reconfiguring your life. Even if you've been in treatment for a long time. Sometimes you have to take a step back in and start all over again. Right. You have unrealistic expectations. You've. Been doing something that has been working for three years. It's time to try something new. Maybe you just totally at a loss and don't know what to do next. So that's the reboot phase, a lot of times, also people have to reboot if they're just discovering they have Lyme disease. They thought they'd had MS or something, you know, you have to reboot. So that's the first face. The second space is to resolve and that's really resolve all those infections. You have, and that's everything from Epstein Barr to lime to bartonella whatever it might be mold anything that's in there and not exactly to cure it, but to resolve it. So it's no longer the main player, and then the last is to restore knew what damage has been done been done to your mighty Qendra to your psyche. What you have to rebuild and restore to get back on your feet and get back out into the world fulltime. This interview is really about the mindset phase having a healing mindset in what that takes, I encourage you Jack out a book, it's wonderful. If you're in the New Hampshire area. And you need a line practitioner. I was really really impressed with Dr Greenspan looker up, she's wonderful and great asset to have. So that's, that's what we're doing here. All right now, the other thing to know and we'll have more about this information at the end of the interview. So hang onto the end of that, you can go to our website and get a worksheet to help you do this roadmap. And we'll have more information as the weeks, go by and really will have workshops and things like that. So he can create your own lime journey roadmap. We're not really telling you how to do it. We might be telling you kinda when to do it, but we're what, not what to do, but we want to give you the foundations of kind of. What steps to take in how to go forward? Absolutely, we distilled down all these interviews into every successful. Lime patient has done these things in more or less this order. And if you wanna get better, that's what you need to do. It's really that simple. And then you something like the lime ninja symptom cracker to make sure you're progressing for. That's, that's one of the big issues here. There's one thing I talk ask Dr Greenspan about, well, how do you know when to abandon a protocol? And if you listen, we'll give you that answer. So hanging there it's a great interview. And here we go. Hello, Dr Greenspan this McCabe from lime ninja radio. How are you? I'm quite well. I'm very excited to speak with you. My daughter, and I were going through your book this morning in preparation, and congratulations. It's pretty awesome. Thank you. Thank you very much. Now before we dive into what you've learned and what you've written in your book about Lyme disease want to ask you a professional question. Actually, it's like what inspired you to be a natural path because that's a little bit of a path less. Well, taken. Well, I was raised around pharmacy. My dad is a pharmacist in multiple generations of my family. And so I was kinda raised around that world. Most of my life, and I had an interest in medicine, but knew that the conventional model didn't quite work for me. I was actually originally a social worker in psychology. I was heading into getting my master's, and doctorate in psychology. And I realized that I wasn't happy wasn't happy doing the work and one day I looked up on my bookshelf notice that I had a bunch of books on alternative medicine. I was just reading for fun. And it dawned on me that, that was my calling that I take an extra classes in school and done things, and just sort of done it for fun. And I'm like, if I'm doing that for fun than that has to mean something. So back I changed my entire major ahead to go back into pre med classes that I hadn't done that required for psychology and basically started over at the age of twenty four so. And went back in got did a couple years of pre recs in winter medical school also, that's wonderful. That might experience with acupuncture. Same thing. Basically hit me on the head. When I wasn't looking and just said, I'm going to go do then so off. I went. It's funny how those things can creep in, if you pay attention. Yes. Absolutely. Yeah. If it was definitely a calling, and, and then it just kind of took off from there. And so it's not a lot of people. Don't really understand what naturopathy are what our background is. But perfect. So what did you tell us a little bit? Thanks. Yeah. There's a little bit of a difference. There are a lot of individuals who, who might say that they are Natura pass debt have a bit of a different education. But ND's that practice in several states that are licensed throughout the United States in every year. More and more states are becoming more formerly licensed in explain with that means in a second. But basically, you know. You know. Doctors in general are required to have an undergraduate degree a four year bachelor's or master's in move on doing a doctorate than so the same as required. For naturopathic doctors, there are about four different schools in the United States, I went to when that's Portland, Oregon. That was the fiftieth graduating class. And basically, it's, it's, it's a medical program just as just as you would find the first two years or basic Medical Sciences, in the second two years. Focuses more in on specialties in clinical time. And then we also have residencies for for docstater coming as well in moving on into their careers. And so, you know, there's quite a bit of education there, and we're also in the states where we are licensed, I was actually chair of the board here. I live in New Hampshire and we have a state medical board that are specific for naturopathic doctors that hold to the same standards and regulations and quality of care. As far as keeping up our continuing education, making sure that we're providing a safe medical care, and you'll find in different states on the west coast were more well known where a lot more of us there, because there's a lot more schools on that side of the of the country versus the east coast. So here in New Hampshire, there's only about forty or fifty practicing naturopathic doctors, whereas in Oregon, you'll find several thousand and so there are a lot more integrated into the hospital system, but naturopathy covered under insurance. So loud people, that's the big question when people come in and see after Pethick doctor, they wanna know for covered in they, they can be depending on the state here in New Hampshire. It is very convenient for being a lime specialist that I am covered by insurance because, you know anybody who's been dealing with lime disease knows that it definitely can be very expensive process to try to recover from lime so anything that we can do to help make that easier. National physician. Where's white says? Gee, I wonder if I can if they're licensed natural paths in my state where can they find out that info at the American Association of naturopathic physicians? No here in New York, it's we're not there yet. Now keep trying though. Yeah, there's a few states that are that are still kind of struggling with trying to get that to go through and gain acceptance. What it does when that happens is it provides more safety for the public because if you know if people don't know, and they're going to see somebody who calls themselves in after Pathak doctor in, in somebody doesn't know that there are programs out there that it, we're individuals might go school for just a couple of months, take classes online, and if they're working at a state where they don't have to have any type of credentialing or a degree or prove that they've passed boards and olive added that there are continuing their training, you know, they can just hang shingle on. Sam naturopathic doctor. So you really there are people who are practicing unlicensed states that are from for your medical programs. You really want to ask somebody if you're gonna go see a naturopathic where did you graduate from how many years, did you go to school may be licensed in other states where there is licensure where they're maintaining that. But it really is safety for the public. You want someone who's working with you that has a medical background that's gonna be giving you medical advice and providing care Besters, one of the schools. And what are the others yet? I went to the national college of natural medicine, and there is also the southwest college of natural medicine or naturopathic medicine in Zona, and then investor also has a satellite school in, in California, as well. And there is also a school up in Vancouver BC, but there's, there's just a few of us than there is a school in on the west coast in Connecticut, but I think that it is actually closing, but it was a Bridgeport, which port university, so. Yeah, there you go. There's a little bit of background. They're not think that's important because it's we hear sometimes actually it's like Audi pronounce it right into its nature, Natura Pam as you start. You start there's like, how do you pronounce that thing? And then it's kinda like, well, what exactly is start talking to two different practitioners. And some of them are such MD's like you said, and then others are just like experts in supplements. So it does make it may. A huge difference in, in California. They can prescribe medicine as well, right? And here in New Hampshire. That's well, yeah. So it's, it's really, you know, you guys are the first than now, the trying to will not try to, but the functional medicine movement on the MD side of things is really trying to bridge that gap. But a why reinvent the wheel? You've got this wonderful training and education already in places like just become a natural path. Well, and it's a different type of training. So there's things I, I know what I know. I know what I don't know. And there are things that are going to be perfect for someone to come see after path for, they're gonna be things that are going to be more suited for seeing a conventional medical practitioner, that has hospital writes, in that can escalate things in a way that, that I can't that might training dozen involved. But when it comes to the chronic disease model naturopathic are really, we're, we're really trained from day, one to be managing a chronic illness, and that really is the, the number one issue, over acute disease, you know, over cute infections, the chronic illness is the one that's really putting a strain on human quality of life, and on, really the medical system in general, both financially, and, you know, in all respects so, speaking here and really focusing in on the patient in their whole story. So our goal is to really look at all aspects of, you know what a patient has been through up until the point that they are sitting down in. Our office. And then my job is to try to help them build themselves back into being healthy over the course of time in with lime disease. That is especially true, that there is a there's a whole rebuilding in restoration process along with trying to get over the infection speaking of that. Why lime disease? Why did I specialize in that when I first moved here, I grew up in Portland, Oregon actually I I'm not actually what east coast girl on the west coast girl, but I've lived here for about twelve years, and twelve or thirteen years. And I when I first moved here, my goal was to start a clinic for general practice, general family medicine, and environmental medicine was my main medical school. So cleaning people out toxins out of them getting helping them restore their health with how they eat in with our what's in their homes in their bodies. So doing key Latian in heavy metal Latian detox and people started to show up I growing up the reason why. Growing up in Portland, Oregon or growing up in an area where there isn't really much lime. Or at least there, wasn't for me growing up, and it was nothing compared to what it is here on the east coast. You know, it was I had no idea of what it really meant to live somewhere with a epidemic. You know, having to go outside. I mean, we had bugs in all sorts of stuff, and things like that in Oregon, but not not like it is here with ticks, and so people started to show up with illnesses, and I, you know, by hearing, their story, I tested them for lime are positive. I'd say we'll go in go into your PCP this positive for lime. It's an infectious disease at the time I wasn't how, how hard can it be? Gertie again. And, and I don't really like to anybody attics, it's not my thing. You know, I just graduated it was I that wasn't my focus or my comfort zone, so people came back patients come back by the week or two later and say, you know, I tried and they refused, they used to treat me so Mike. What am I coming from a social work background? I have a real problem with disenfranchisement and people not getting the care that they need. And so I started treating in this area once people here that you treat Lyme disease. They, you know, the word get quickly. And then. So we'd been a few years that I started to treat lime just because it kept showing up. So the practice chose me. And then I found out I had it. A line I had lime disease, Fabio sus. And so the patient as well. Yeah. So that was very life changing and helped me, a better doctor have those. Yeah. So where what did you turn to, to begin learning about line, the first packet, the first thing I ever read, and actually I'm going to be doing a lecture with him in a few weeks? I'm I'm a little nervous about that because he's like my lame superhero. But is a Joseph I gone. Oh, yes, of course, he has a packet out online called advanced topics online disease. And, and when I was, I thinking, all right. Maybe I'll do this lime thing, but many doctors doing it and people need help, and I gotta get myself like I gotta get some idea of what to do. What's going with that handle this? So it's about a forty five forty forty page document, and I have recommended over the years, because it was for a long time before other books that come out online that was. A really nice resource for people that could be reliable because it's a big issue with people trying to find reliable information around Lyme disease with the internet, especially with everything out there. And all the fear and kind of the, you know, the opinions about it. So I would say that was my very first resource that really helped me in, then, of course, I've been training, a member of eyelids. And, and I've been doing their trainings for years in some going yearly to the conferences the best, I can in the knife, started off by taking their they have courses that they teach every year for new doctors that are treating lime to kinda give them a primer on idea of how to get started. So I started with that about a decade ago or a little over a decade. Awesome. Just curious. Why? I mean that kind of the answer already my head. But I wanna ask you, why not the idea say. Well, you're going there. Okay. But really? So you're gonna call you dock your doctor? Right. And Lyme disease is kind of new to you. And the only reason I feel you would not lean that way, because you're Natura path in, you kinda low more open minded, but why not go to the experts because treatment appears people being denied care. Okay. It doesn't match the model that's currently out there and I realized that early on the model that's currently out there as far as guiding in my opinion. Okay. If our guiding doctors as to how to treat lime didn't match what I was seeing in the patient population as far as what was being offered for treatment, what people how people are being turned away that had obvious symptoms lab results that, you know, that treatment time one of the major differences, I find between the idea say I ladder is treatment time, you know, that, that we treat longer in. We treat until we see symptoms. Coming to a time of being in a place of remission or recovery. And, and many times in the current the current limitations set out by the idea say it's sort of like the well we've treated you for lime. That's it, you're done. And it has to be something else now. And then they have post Lyme syndrome in, you know, if you look at the literature, there, even doctors who are in alignment, more with the conventional model, but they'll say in, you know, instead, he's that, okay? We have the definition of post Lyme syndrome for individuals who pad lime in now have, you know, continued joint pain, headaches fatigue, will, how are we serving that population? You know, that was really important question of somebody who falls more the idea say, model when I was doing research for the book they, you know, like, how do we serve this population? We don't even have they didn't even have guidelines as to how to really serve this population that had all these chronic issues after having line. We label then call it something. But there's really no fall. Oh, through with how to manage care for these individuals. So I think those are some big distinctions in why that model didn't work well for me. And also, you'll find that the islets model is very integrative with natural medicines in weaving that in, and that's a really big part in a really popular part, when you when you go to the conferences in things you see, allow the doctors, the MD's Dios nurse practitioners natural as are all talking about conventional treatment with antibiotics in different medications, and balancing that with natural medicine. And that's that's where I felt most comfortable fair to say that in seeing these patients, come back to you kind of you weren't satisfied with, with what you saw. Like, okay, who else is out there that we can begin to learn exactly? Though. Yeah. So you learn from your patients. Yes, smart. Yeah. Yeah, I'm very I love what I do. And I'm very connected to the community here. Very connected to the population. I might you know, a lot of compassion, I feel very protective of the patients in how protective I am of they're, you know, making sure that they're mentally emotionally physically handling everything. Okay. Moving through the process, and that was a big motivation with writing a book that having a more open discussion about what's happening to people because of all of the controversy around. The disease is actually creating more trauma in more chaos for individuals in more for them to recover from because they're stuck in the middle of this back and forth between doctors and being not knowing who to believe, in what to believe in being very demoralized by being denied care being told that they don't have what they have, they don't have lime disease doesn't exist, or they don't have these tick-borne disease. This can't possibly be what's wrong with you. So it's really hurting families. It's hurting individuals. So that, that to me, and especially I live in a smaller kind of community here in New Hampshire versus where I grew up in Portland, Oregon and more metropolitan, and so I feel very connected with the community in that way, though health far Deger, lime progress. I had neuro logical lime. So I it took two years of treatment a used about everything you can imagine, and I want people that will try stuff out on myself before. Like when I bring new therapies into the clinic alt-right outta myself before off, give it to somebody else, and I did about five months of IV antibiotics, and this is all in tandem with natural medications, all sorts of different support, if they're buddies, physical therapies, and things like that, and energetic ones, as well in my mind involved, you know, having a lot of neurological issue. So I would have a lotta seizure. Events, read be more awake and that's pretty common. I see in the baby's you population with lime lot of normal body movements and things like that had a really hard time, tolerating being in public spaces and was in a lot of pain, and very uncomfortable. But I still, I don't know how I did it but still managed to work my practice. Day. But, you know, I had a very lucky situation where I was going through all that. But I had a built in. Support system here, you know, I ran a line took born these clinic. So I could sit here with my ID and my arm dripping wall talking with patients, you know, in every day, I had people that were giving me support going through it, you know, and how important that was for my recovery, but it wasn't easy. Of course, it took a long time just like I mean I mean two years, actually lime is pretty his short. Yeah. Absolutely. So I got a you know, I got I got through fairly easy, easy compared to other patients that I treat. You can't place a value on that type of support. I mean that's almost the first step in many people's journey to getting better is trying to find some level of support, whether it's in their family, or with friends or even online, because it can be so even this day and age. So stressful just there, you know, it's being dismissed is like just like you said, from the doctors just dismissed, and specially in unfortunately, you know, there's the white coat syndrome with hyper with hypertension kind of thing, and you get nervous in your blood pressure goes up with visiting the doctor, but then there's also this, this white coat syndrome where if somebody's having a problem with you doesn't understand what's going on. And they hear some doctors say somewhere that were and the wearing a lab coat that Lyme disease is, is idea say. Easy to treat these to cure you get over a couple of weeks, antibiotics. Thank you very much. The rest is just something else said a dozen exist, this chronic Lyme disease, then, you know, then you get friends and and neighbors are giving you a really hard time. And I know I wanna get into I cut you actually bring up that type of thing in your book quite a bit. And that's one of the things I loved about your book, but before we go, there you brought up your, your pats practice was in tuck city, right in an environmental medicine, and let me I'm going to ask this to two questions might be related. Do you would you under stress when you got bit in infected? Do you think we're you Volna Rable at that point in time? Yeah. While I it's hard to know vacuum that I've actually never pulled a tick out of my skin ever that I found. So I had no idea when I was bit. But I know of a couple of times where I got sick. One of them's actually, in the third trimester of pregnancy child. Yeah. And so pretty convinced that that's when I developed visa, but it was also during that h one n one flu epidemic. You know, my son was born in two thousand nine so. I definitely will say that I was under stress. I was starting practice. I was a mother of toddler. I will my daughter was born two years prior. And I you know not sleeping. I wasn't getting a lotta sleep. I was burning the candle both ends. And I'm just that anyway. And I also had Bayreuth issues as well on top of that, that I developed since the pregnancy. So, of course, the firewood plays a really big role in, in wellness in, in being able to sustain during times of being ill and being able to have your immune system overcome that. So I would say absolutely I was. And then, of course not knowing that I was infected for quite a while. I think things just piled up for me than finally became noticeable. But I definitely didn't pick up on it in myself right away. When I look back I should have picked up on it. But I did that same thing that so many other patients do of the explaining away symptoms. You know visitors who wants to be sick, and what he wants to be sick on, you know, all these other things, and then, and then you think, well, maybe I should go get this checked out in the Nelson few weeks later, you're fine. The office where people make appointments in their desperate to get in a call about a week before their appointment. I'm feeling much better now fine. I'm good. I'm great. I don't need the appointment. And then with her from them a couple of weeks after they cancelled. Oh my gosh, made such a mistake. I gotta get. I'm in, even if you feel good, just come in, so I will say, environmentally yet for a lot of people, especially they live in a home with mold big one a lot with Richie shoemakers protocols. Yet genetic pathways that are able to discern. If somebody has a hard time with getting rid of biotoxins from, from mold or from microbes, even are part of the pathways that are looked at that. And then how much inflammation that's causing in the body than isolating. 'cause in for a lot of people that causes their home here with all the snow and the moisture in certain times a year, mold than ice, dams and things like that in, in water encroaching in the houses fairly something happens quite often for people, so they have no idea that the house is really the one, making them sick or where they live. That's, that's potentially aiding their illness in making it more difficult. For them. Recently somebody in their community was mold. So they felt worse as they approached the front door is that weird. So it's like the bone. Yeah. The homeless find tested out fine. There was something in the neighborhood, some mold. So I don't know if they were in a farming community remit the details, but that isn't, yes. So it's there's the whole an end. So where are you in a farming community their New Hampshire? No, I would say it's sort of a blend of both at this point. It growing quite a bit here. His people are sprawling from Boston. I live on our side of Boston. Okay. Yeah. You know. But there still is, you know, you get out into the countryside, you know, twenty thirty minutes any direction from where I am. You're gonna see definitely more farming community. Or people with just, you know, a lot of acreage with a not necessarily farming, but they, they liked to people buy homes here, because they can get a lot of age that acreage is gonna have a lot of wildlife, and beauty and ticks. Yes, it does. All right. Let's dive into your book here. And again, one of the things I appreciated is not only are you gonna going through details of this these different ways to treat the infections. But you're trying to help people I like to say think outside the tick, I think you may be said that in, in your book that phrase, and think about these co-infections in how really they fit handed glove and and use each other to evade immune system. It's, it's really pernicious how they do that. But then also you get into the cycle. It's probably 'cause your background the psychosocial kind of aspects of that in taking care of your spirit and out, say you're hearing healing spirit instead of fighting spirit to keep going right to keep going to keep a positive attitude and to keep putting one step in. One of the other end adjusting adjusting your goals, and your expectations of yourself in, in your community, the 'cause went when you do become berry berry, l like you were in. You're sitting there with a pick line of doing your job at the same time, it's not the same as it was a year ago when you could burn the candle at three ends and Joel children in jobs and starting new business. So how how, how did you integrate that? What do you recommend? What do you see in patients? What's the beginning step here that people are already sick but have to get their their minds right there, spirits? Right. So that they can begin to make realistic decisions. Realistic informed choices in terms of healing. Question. So the I'd say that it would it comes right down to it that the core issue for just about everyone myself included is mealy getting a lesson on self care and also boundaries. You'll find that the individuals that really struggle, the most are the ones that are so credibly hard on themselves because they can't be they can't be this person that they were for others, or the person that they saw the thought that like the image show, the person that they thought that they the person they think they should be that should be going be able to do all these activities be able to go do. All this work be able to maintain any schedules, having a hard time saying no to others. You know, having being able to say, you know, these are individuals that want to do so many different things were able to do a lot of things. And so mentally emotionally. It can be very crushing when you can't go even like if you were someone who was a bike rider, avid, bike rider hiker. In, you know involved in activities, and you can't do that anymore. There's, there's a grieving, and that Penn alost in fear that, that you're not gonna be able to do that again. So for a lot of people to total change of their self concept, depending on how long the illnesses is, is allowed to, you know how long that goes on for somebody. So the first piece of it is going to be that, that self care piece of, of being able to, to say, no, I noticed that individuals who you know, are able to, to step back in reel. It in and realize what the priorities are like, what really they only have so much real estate only so much real estate that we can think about that we can be involved in on a daily basis. And if we're spending a lot of time with thinking about all the things we can't have that were not able to do who were letting down. We're letting ourselves down letting kids down, you know, a leading partner down. I just can't get well. Well, you know, I can't do this. I can't do that. And you spend a majority of your real estate, your thought form real estate thinking about that, then that is going to have an impact on the physical body. And there's a field of study called second year immunology which studies the, you know, how our thoughts in packed proteins expressed by yourselves and how our nervous system works in that integrates with the immune system. So if, if those things are not if we're spending a lot of time, thinking in worrying the other component of this. I know I might be might be a jumping around your little bit. But another is individuals who win. They have lime spend a whole bunch of time focused in on, you know, trying to find the next cure trying to I think that over research. So then again, they're spending all of this time in chat rooms in all these places trying to completely immersed in sunk into it to the point where they. Lose themselves in than they spend the rest of the time feeling the sense of loss in there's no place that supports them through this, that, then you look at community. It's reflecting back this somebody that will you want you over this yet. You know, why aren't you better yet? Are you're not seeing, you know, maybe your doctor isn't giving you the right treatment. That's why you're not better yet. Maybe you're not try this my aunt my aunt Josie. Tried this, this is gonna cure, you it made her better, you know, or and, and then it gets to point where people get isolated because then if they do share how they feel after a while they're not getting a very supportive response, because people's expectations socially that you should be over something or done with something don't match with somebody's actually experiencing. So then they, they, they become more withdrawn, and you know, kind of more isolated. So I know I kind of went off on a lot of chances on that. But that's, that's the discussion very interested in and you bring up a very interesting point, I haven't. Said this explicitly on this podcast podcast yet. But I'm going to start encouraging people to go on information. Hyatt. Into into limit you really don't need to know fifty different lime treatments, you need to know the one you're working on now and then plan b if that doesn't work. And after that, stop, you know, if you do have to go to plan B, then, you know that you can research, another one or whether to practice you whether you're doing it yourself or whether you're working with the practitioner and end I there, there is so much out there and in everything has worked once for everybody, and everything has not worked for somebody, and you will find all that information on the internet, and you can't ride more than one horse at a time, unless you're in a circus, and we don't want to be in a circuits. We wanna get cured from from y disease, so with that in your practice in your experience, how and I know that another is no straight answer for this. But in general gross generalities here. How long for treatment dally do give before you start thinking, well, maybe it's time to try something else? So. A typical average treatment time we're talking about chronic Lyme chronic tick borne diseases yet, I'm not even talking about from, like from coming into your office to be completely cured. Thank you very much. I'm talking about when, when should you begin to see some positive feedback yet. So if I'm just starting off with a patient and getting them started on a medication. Typically in this may be their first time attempting to treat line, usually the first two to four months, or the most difficult with something called her timer response. Time reaction or a Yar ash hurt simul reaction named after scientists that discovered that people were having reactions with certain infections, where inflammation would go up and have they'd have more difficulty while while treating those infections. And it in that same that typically that must've happens with Spira Kate infections like syphilis in there, of course, with lime diseases fire, Keith infection. So people typically were kinda be on up and down roller coaster. After the first two to four months, usually meet with patients, every two months, unless they need me sooner in between hand depending on an urgent situation and the reason why the time period seem so long as because I, I need people to be on the meds for certain period of time in order for me to be able to give them information and give them feedback. That, hey, y'all K know by the first visit let's say two months in, I usually tell people that I expect to see something improve some things are going to be worse. And then something's, you might get some new symptoms, you didn't have before, or you know, but there's gonna be some shift there somewhere the other end, that's in the next pretty much to me, that's like a good prognosis that they're running with the pack. If somebody comes into see me, two months in there on medication A medication regime natural medicine blended with antibiotics or just natural medicine alone. And I'm not seeing any change has been no change in symptoms. Then, you know, then I usually will end up changing what has what it is. I'm doing so as long as I'm still seeing change as people move along and come back and see me. It's sort of taken by case by case basis with every kind of chunk of time that I see someone but if we're still seeing progress in their symptoms. I'll usually keep them where they're at maybe tweak, a few things depending on if something's coming up with their digestive system. Were, you know, their, their hormones or something of that ager and get to a point appoint a plateau, where things kinda stay the same or regress, pretty negatively in? Stay pretty consistently have symptoms that are more difficult than they stay more persistently consistently versus just like a flare like a hurt time response that obviously, I change change the medication regime, again, that might be adding different changing the antibiotic that might be changing the natural medicine that might be taking away the antibiotics today for two or three patients, you know that I saw today about twelve patients today for two or three patients it was. You know, it was saying, hey, you know, your antibody storm really seem to be working very well. Let's try doing all natural only. And then had if you follow patients, where I've done that by that, if you couple months ago when they're doing fabulous. So, you know that that's typically how it goes is far as as treatment goes with patients. It is more of an individual basis. But I hope that gives a good idea kind of what I expect to see what other doctors, you know, I think kind of I from what I gather follow that same, sort of patterning. In the two month window, that's long enough and to allow things to run the course of long enough for your body to respond and to get to get some idea. And again, I'm not looking for total cure, but I think we do run into I'm sure you've had those patients to where they've been on a treatment regimen for six months or a year. And there's been very little shift in anything and, you know, they're being told well just hanging there at some point that you just it doesn't make sense now. That's not the I have there are, you know, that particular style of docs that treat this in not mine. I you're still diplomatic. And there's probably don't agree with how I you know, would treat something. I have I have to be very humble because, you know, we'll of course, aided, I'm gonna get schooled somewhere along the line if I right when whenever we got for your God sends a patient, along just to remind us, right? And it does happen. Yeah. So I understand that. But, but the, the point the point is and, and, you know, in your case, you've got the you've got the personal experiment experience clinical experience, and your that helps definitely I think, really people begin to struggle, and then can go down the rabbit hole of trying to find the perfect the perfect solution, the silver bullet that's going to cure the line, which we all know that, for the most part, once it's chronic it isn't cut. You're not just dealing with lime. You're dealing with eighteen other things as a. Hardwood says, but, but I think there needs to be some realistic understandable. I need to be taking another close. Look at myself in my health, and, and tracking it to, you know. So when you're take notes, so you, you can look at patient, look back. Okay. This is improved a two months. You may not remember it. But when I came in, and they'll say, oh, yeah, I remember that, that has gotten better. And so I think it's important that, that people do that as well. And not to track, I think tracking every day makes you crazy. There's just you know, once a week, it's probably too much to. So, you know, once a month, once every two months, something like that taking some form of assessment has visiting your practitioners is it sounds like really smart thing to do. So thank you for being willing to put an even though yet qualifications on putting a, a timeframe on that. And in that also want to kind of bring this conversation toward close. But before we do that, one of the things you bring up in your book is a blocked to healing and it, you label it as a spiritual block. And that area is. So, you know, we throw around the words spirit, and really, it's kinda like energy in my world. It's, it's, it's used in so many ways by so many people that's almost become meaningless. But you mean something quite specific by it? Yeah. Well, I think so we are way more than we know about ourselves like we, you know, we're we are bigger than we than we understand. And we are more powerful than we understand, and part of what's happening on many spiritual fronts with different religions also with the new age movement is people trying to wake up to that trying to find their way back to that. And trying to find that way back to understanding having communication with our bodies in having communication, with higher aspects of ourselves, you know, with the whole community with feeling connected. You know, with ourselves and with the greater the greater picture. And so when it comes to our, there are decisions that get made that are not even conscious decisions on, on a on a soul level, I believe, than I've experienced enough with patients. I practice Shimada keeling arts as well as other energy medicine modalities, in have been training in that for several years and continue to in probably will continue to Volve that for the rest of my life, as it is just it's a practice just like you know, just as medicine is the practice in it's different form of medicine. But it goes more into, you know where, where are we not hearing ourselves where we not consciously aware where we have actually made a choice, and again, not a choice. It's it, it's a very delicate place to go and have a conversation, a lot of times when you start going into this conversation, people might jump to thank are you saying choosing to be sick? Or are you saying, you know? This is my fault, you know, earned off by the idea of having the conversation, especially the very angry in, you know, have a lot of trauma around being told that they're making this up, and that, they're, you know, so, but it's about getting into the unconscious in subconscious level of what is what kind of decisions are we making in that kind of Behi behind the curtain, you know, but in, in the more in the shadows in bringing that more to the forefront and this isn't just stuff that it's, it's incorporating stuff that's happened to us in this lifetime here since birth, you know, traumas, things like that, that we didn't even know that decisions were sort of made that now a disease comes into the body in lands in the body, and we have certain ways, we think, feel in energies, that we carry frequencies that we carry based on things that we've experienced in that choices we've made out of surviving those experiences because I mean, you know. Varying degrees, people have more traumatizing lives versus less versus others. But what somebody views as being traumatizing, what's important. It could be something that somebody else who is survived horrific, you know, refugee crises in had seen terrible things you know, murders happened in front of them have had terrible abuses in atrocities really could have honestly, the same type of experience with somebody who might have just, you know, witnessed something that we wouldn't consider to be that big of a deal, but to that person that was a major trauma for them. So then a decision gets made specially in use that can alter and change, how we're going to respond to a certain infection when it comes into the system, and how much that infection will become magnified or how, how is that partnering? We can't control that, you know, if we're talking about tick-borne Z's, if it decides it's gonna make us lunch. You know, make us their dinner, we, we don't have control over that if it's going to happen. But once the disease comes in. Especially if you get multiple bites over time and it's not dealt with there is a physical component there. It's not just psychological spiritual. But if somebody feels disempowered by the fact that we can't control how fast line is going to move to the physical body by just using medications and taking stuff from the outside world. How do we empower somebody from the inside out? So by trying to go inward and help someone try to find those links to anything that they're holding onto that are blocks on belief systems. Even so one of the methods used is applied kinesiology that one's very well known. It's muscle testing. A lot of people use that for different in different ways you can start to ask the body. Hey, you know. You know, do you want to be well in the personnel ask the person laying there. You know, I'll ask verbally and they'll say, we'll of course here like a minor table, it you think I'm like paying for your time. Why would I be here if I didn't wanna be well, and then I asked the body, the body says, don't and then we go back and we start to trace will wear that original belief you know, about not being worthy about what which Royce did you make that you felt like you didn't deserve to be well. This is just one just one example. There are wounds that we carry that are not just hours that we have in this lifetime. But also that follow in our family. So there's tons of research coming out now on trans generational. Healing entrance. Generational trauma. You know, the population that gets the most research, done, of course, they're doing a lot of it with mice because they can unfortunately traumatize mouse or mouse, mother. And then follow the pups in. We can see that in a very sinked amount of time that we watch unsteady, but as far as the human population, most of that's done with them tracing. Tracking holocaust survivors with certain genetic so genetics is another term that we're seeing become popular in more out there, because it is about people taking being able to step more into taking personal responsibility and trying to trying to take their power back. You know feel empowered about not feel disempowered in like we're stuck in a body that sick. Network stuck here in that we're supposed to, you know, there are times in many, many times where we need to surrender and be, you know, an accept that this is what's going wrong with our bodies, but there are ways to do that in a way where we can also empower our selves at the same time in being acceptance that there is suffering going on. But look at how my is there something else going on that could ease my suffering is there something I'm holding onto so no. Again, I could go and talk about this hours. So I'll kind of all kind of rain in bring the horses back year of it. But I, I hope I answered the question didn't go too often to into the into something too big in heady. But the, the main thing there is that, you know, we can't deny that right now science starting to really corroborate and show things that, you know, Shimada practitioners in enter individuals with sensitivities in who've been doing energy work in acupuncture, in all these modalities that are. Entering into the different aspects of physical body n our energy bodies because we know we hear about the shockers and all that type of thing that, you know, in the nod in the meridians that data is stored there. And so how do we access that data when we need it the most, you know, when our health is really our bodies really going a different direction than our psyche wants to go. And how do we make the merged together so that, you know, how do we bring those two together so that the body can now start to benefit from the psyche being healed? You know, the soul. Absolutely. Again. I hope I didn't go. No. We don't this is a conversation way whose covers. So this is a conversation out in the world that it's probably going on for millennia for lots of people, but I recent it's kind of faded away a little bit. And as is just coming back to the baseline, let's say, and are kinda current awkward with the conversation. We're just we're not fluent in it. It's not a common experience. That's talk a whole lot. I mean, there's tons out there, but there's, there's so many different ideas that when we do talk about it is, we're fumbling a little bit like a toddler walking just it's not a confident, stride of, of a twenty one year old. It's, it's a beginning conversation. So I think it's important. Why ask you about that? Is it so important to consider ways that were not well, or ways that, were that, that are healings block? Let's put it that way that interrupt their healing that like you said is inter. Unconscious and because of our blinders for studying herbal preparations, the, you know, the herbs may or may not touch the spirit. Depending on how we're using them in the context using them in and just focus on. How do I open up this particular detoxification pathway or had why support these anti-oxidants or what's the best way to kill the Busia or support my body? That, that limits us and the people who've been stuck for many, many years, it need to take expand the vision need to expand the possibility of, you know what what's really holding you back here. And I to kind of bring this home, she wasn't patient of mine, but I had interviewed her a couple times on the on the podcast, this lovely young women. She's Danish or something way up from that corner of the world and had lime terribly just terrible terrible. And what finally flip. The switch for her was. She did a, a mental training program, especially some, some brain repair, and training. And she she learned how to manage brain, and that she said, once she got into this basically, listening to recordings and doing some exercises on our own. It's like she felt so much better. It was the right medicine at the right time. And it had nothing to do with taking a nother supplementary or or antibiotic and I think we need to keep like you said, we're bicker, we're bigger than we think we are there's more going on than with we are. And if we're stuck, it's probably not about the stuff. We know it's the stuff we don't know, or the stuff we don't know that we don't know. And yeah, we don't know what questions to ask. We don't know that we can ask those questions, you know, in Sobat, that's the interesting piece too, when you bring up. So we look at herbs right now. Science period research is really looking into studying more herbs in their properties and everything else. But then you have a whole subset of cultures indigenous cultures and individuals who studied plant spirit medicine who really understand how to communicate with plants, you know. And, and we know plants respond to human interaction when we treat them a certain way we say certain things to them, we know. We have that interaction with them. So what does that feel, what is that connection that we have with them and also going back to the patient? You were talking about, you know, we really have so much more power in rebuilding. Ourselves having the patients to allow our bodies to rebuild. I think the big piece is also patients and patients runs through everything that we've discussed in regards to treatment time in regards to, you know, being on information, you know, information, cleanse detoxing elected permission cleanse. It's also I'm stealing that. Yeah, we're we're there's I mean, I would say, even line just take lime out of it, and you ask anybody. Oh, absolutely. Yeah. And even as a doctor I can't keep up in. I feel like I read constantly and I still feel like I can't keep up on the latest thing in the latest thing in the latest thing of this coming out that coming out in it feels even more fast and furious now than it did. When I first started practicing to try to keep up with how things keep changing different opinions about things, you know, the stem cells in extra zones, and in this therapy met there, be trying to keep up with all that. Sometimes I all I can do, just sit back and go, okay, what do we know to do in calm down, just have a discussion with this patient and just get back to basics you know, sometimes you just gotta pull it back in, you know, sometimes you just can feel overwhelmed. And so the but the impatience is what's motivating that, you know, we want. We want right now. Want it fixed right now. How come it's not fixed right now. There's gotta be something else is gonna fix this right now. And our brains are really starting to become wired about one, you know, based on the technology, so fast at wanting everything so fast in wanting it, so the, the patients piece on all levels, but the mind body spirit, and then our interaction with microbes and how long it takes to recover recoup. The big piece, I think for everybody to when you asked about the thing for patients is, is the self care. But also patients is a big one in I I'm right up there with somebody that constantly has to work on that. So. With every technology. There is a lesson or a rebound or some other technology needs to come in behind it in clean it up, and we have created a massive technology. It was not since the written word. We don't think of writing as technology, but it was when I was complaining about something years ago, my daughter who's studying ancient Greek at the time told me, you know, that's the same thing. They said five thousand years ago when writing was introduced in Greece, and they claimed it was going to ruin the culture and destroy storytelling so forth. And so on and one sense they were right. You know it did we did lose that quite a bit. But it introduced a whole nother writing has been a wonderful powerful tool. So I think we're in that kind of evolutionary societal change right now, which makes things either. Even more people in, in dealing with simple things like a simple, quote unquote, simple thing, like a chronic infection, like lime in all the friends at come along with it. Okay. That degreen span before we can't. We can't go without plugging your book and I wanna plug it hard because it's an awesome book. Tell us just a little bit about your book, where can people get it is on Amazon is on audio books on the kind of good stuff. And then how can people get in touch with you, and you do phone consults or did they have to drive up to New Hampshire? Well, they can they can find the on WWW greenhouse medicine dot com, and I would say, yeah, I do tend to wanna meet with people that are a little closer in here to where I practice versus doing something where I'm treating somebody across the country. So don't tend to do phone consults per se as a as a practice with, like telemedicine at this point, because I will on case by case basis with patients, but typically need to meet with somebody in person. I. In. Let's see here as far as the book the book is rising above lime disease in its, but it's available on Amazon, kindle and Barnes and noble. And it's not an audio book, yet, I've been trying to get my publishers to have been talking with them. So we're in discussions with that. Because main motivation for wanting audio book, is that a lot of line patients have a hard time reading do better with audio so I've been trying to, to push for that to happen. So hopefully that will happen. And yeah. Side of that them they go. There's me. But the book it sells really is meant for patients families. Doctors, there's a you know, I did a ton of research on the latest research on herbs. And you know what's, what's happening with lime disease? I try to stay current as I could. So it definitely could be helpful with practitioners that are treating us or those that are just getting started, or those just wanna take a look and see what, what I'm up to. There's a lot of tables in the back that have the different herbs in how they should be used in, in dosages also what they're, they're helpful for as far as citations, as well on that. So it's really just the main motivation for the book was that what I pictured in my mind was somebody who's by themselves. Let's say in the middle in having just anxious in frayed feeling very alone that, you know, they had my book in could read it that it would help them feel better. And or if they wanna have their family member understand, or their friends. I understand what they're going through, and they don't have it in them to try to explain it all, or maybe their families, or friends are don't wanna hear it from them, necessarily, or kind of not falling on deaf ears. But if the hero from somebody else, so sort of as an advocate at spreading, what I feel is really solid information on what's going on. And so that, that was my main motivation for writing it. It's amazing book in what I love about it is backup here. Just a little second little context is. So we've been doing this podcast now for going, it's almost five years, you'll be like the two hundred thirty fifth interview or something like that. By the time it comes out and. Kind of started off just well, let's kinda just get started end in interviewing people, both patients researchers practitioners what became very clear is. There's no clear path in you get cancer and doctors like in. You said the earlier, there's no cancer. There's a path like you may not like the path that doctors Jews for you. Right. But there's a very clear path in these are the steps you do. And these are the people we bring in here treatment options lime disease like you said, once you get past the first two three weeks month to month and you're still sick. There's nothing out there. So people aren't really and doctors don't have this to practitioners have, there's no road Pap, and your book is the closest we've seen to really feeling in what we believe the steps for the roadmap. And that's that's remarkable. So you know, it takes you from the very beginning takes you get. Your mind, right? It takes you through diagnosis possible, other diagnosis preparing for treatment. You know that's so very important. And you can kind of prepare for treatment as you're getting treatment. And then, you know, the different ways to treatment treatment, and you really begin to break this all down, and then, you know, Reids resetting your expectations what to do and how to keep going. So it's really it's fabulous. It's a fabulous book, and I really can't recommend it highly enough. I'm touched. That's, that's an amazing explanation of the book. I thank you so much. You're welcome. You can tell that this. I get this, you know, lime disease is kind of on the edge right now where five years ago. And you've you've been here long enough that it was just one of those fringe diagnosis things. And now there's enough attention that it's -tracting the kind of the second generation and the people who wanna get in on the, the gray. Train so to speak. Right. So that a lot of people throwing their hats into the ring with say half baked, but they don't have the full understanding of the disease yet. They've got some good ideas that good people, but it's incomplete and you clearly have probably closer patient to right at and been through really time. You really see. Everything that's connected to it. It really. So I'm, I'm glad you you're you're able to hear my compliment that take it in because it's sear. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. I'm gonna I'm gonna keep you all keep this on tape. So when I'm having a bad day, I'll just be like, okay, here you go. Outlay this back. Lovely to hear. Thank you so much. You're very welcome. Aurora clip it for you. We'll send it along. My positive affirmation. Well, we all I just heard a story as somebody who's kept a treasure chest of thank you notes. And I think that's a we all we all need to do that to be reminded from time to time Dr Greenspan you've been incredibly generous with your time. And thank you for all the time and effort, putting your book together, it's going to help a lot of people. For taking the time to speak with me pre-stated. Thanks burned biting me on your show. This was a great episode. And you know, it really struck me especially when she was talking about setting boundaries that your habits really mean to changing as soon as you realize you're sick like the things that you've been doing that. You've can do without thinking, or kind of those maybe kind of self destructive habits that, you know, you can kind of get away with when you're mostly feeling. Well, they suddenly doesn't work anymore, especially when you have nothing left to give and suddenly you're civil year, it's like those damages become very apparent. A researcher named Carol Dwekat believe the she was at a university of Pennsylvania, but one hundred percent sure anyway, she did a lot of work on something called growth mindset, as opposed to a fixed mindset and had two young students and. Sometimes older students is well dealing with new information, but kind of like middle-age middle-aged our middle school aged students, and basically the students who love the grind so to speak who were praised for doing hard work in working hard in the long run were more successful because when they hit a challenge they kept on going, and healing is the same ways you need to develop a healing mindset, and that's critical. If you don't have a healing mindset all the antibiotics, and probiotics and nutraceutical 's and herbs in the world are not gonna get you better. It's you're gonna hit a roadblock and you will self destruct, you will fall apart something will happen, the most important thing that you can do is healing mindset. And that includes all the things Dr Greenspan talked about the boundaries that habits to reassess. And to know that you're not going to be perfect doing it. That's part of having a healing mindset is with not about perfection. It's about keeping going in the face of setbacks. That's the most important thing and guarantee you with lime disease and all the co-infections all the things you're gonna have setbacks just part of the nature of it. It's part of the roadmap late not to be surprised when setbacks happen. Speaking of the roadmap we told you how to get it. Go ahead over to lime ninja radio dot com. You'll see a button, there that says Lyman extras or at the menu at the top. It'll say extras click on that you'll see another link for it the lime journey roadmap and that will begin to help you map out what to do. So when you do hit a roadblock, you know what to do next is not the end of the world. So that your current protocol doesn't work. No big deal. You've got planned be right there. And the other thing allows you do go on information diet. We need to whole f. Episode on this there. He's field. They're much, much information out there. And you think consume it for five years? And you're listening to this podcast. You're overwhelm things like this podcast. And more, I'm talking about people selling things rather than sharing information. But even sharing information. Everybody's gonna opinion about the protocol that you're on. The only one who knows whether it's right or not for you. Is you and your body. You're going to feel better. You're not. And I love Dr wink methods give give it about three months. If you're three months in and it's not working, there's the time to begin to consider. Okay. Let's pull the plug and move on to plan B. That's why you need a plan b but you don't need CD f g h I you don't need to know eight thousand things you don't need to spend hours or days or weeks, researching something that you can't get to either because it's illegal in the state, you're in or because it's a sixty thousand dollar residential program in Germany, and your own food stamps, right? Like, let's, let's have a reality check here with the roadmap or if your heart set on getting that sixty thousand dollar German residential program making it up. I don't know what it really is. Then Howard going to get the money, right? How you going to raise the money there? Whether as a will there's a way. But put that plan together in place. That's part of your roadmap. That's part of your journey. That's truly what you wanna do. That's the next phase that you wanna do great. Go for it, but let's get organized about this. Let's get organiz out say be a little bit realistic. But if you need a big dream like who's me who am. I, I'm just a whole schmucks with Mike. To schmos with Mike. Speaking of schmos, if you like what we're doing here at ninja radio hit the subscribe button on your podcast at that way you won't miss any of this fantastic info. And if you really like what we're doing leave us a review on your podcast app. It really helps us reach more people like you. Yes, thank you. We've gotten two new reviews since we started begging for them, so we're going to continue to beg. Can we get it up to three this week? So please, please. Please head on over to tunes spend a moment. If you've got it on your phone, it's just that the bottom of the app there hit review at least hit the stars that's super easy. And if you have the brainpower, go ahead write a couple sentences for as we'd really appreciate it. Also, do you have any feedback suggestions for guests really anything, sending Email to feedback at wine ninja radio dot com? And last as you longtime lime niches. No, this podcast would not be complete unless we left you with the lime ninja factor. The day. Dave, you now last week, an injured got pulled over in Columbus, Ohio for doing fifty in thirty mph zone, but since he wasn't an car, they had to give him a ticket for jaywalking. Radio's purely public broadcast and is not intended to be personalized medical bites any individuals specific situation each individual his medical situations, unique and Limy radio should not be relied upon Endro considered as personalized medical advice on into radio's not licensed render medical and should be considered. Simply the public opinion of line, ninja radio and its guests recommendations on specific treatment options are not intended to address any listeners particular, medical situation, as always contact your physician before considering any new treatment.

New Hampshire Lyme disease Julia Greenspan Oregon Portland United States Mckay Ripi Lyman tick-borne disease university of natural medicine producer ROY Lyme syndrome New York Dr Greenspan Audi chairman
The Long Arm of Ayn Rand: Why she still matters, Part 2

Ideas

54:43 min | 2 years ago

The Long Arm of Ayn Rand: Why she still matters, Part 2

"This is a CBC podcast. Discover what millions around the world already have audible has Canada's largest library of audiobooks, including exclusive content curated by and four Canadians. Experienced books in a whole new way were stories are brought to life by powerful performances from renowned actors and narrators with the free audible app. You can listen anytime anywhere. Whether you're at home in the car or out on a jog the first thirty days of the audible membership or free, including a free book. Go to WWW dot audible dot CA slash CBC. To learn more. I am primarily the offing you called of morality, which has so five been believed impossible. I'm Paul Kennedy. And this is idea. My next guest is she is probably one of the most intense, also perhaps intellectual voices in America today. I think provider most unusual and most controversial you'll up and please miss rand. I'm ran the first writer to celebrate capitalism. Novels like the fountainhead and atlas shrugged turn to figure of the entre preneurs into a hero. Her ideas were embraced by millions and still are, but they were also ridiculed and still are this week. I'm ran how she still thing. Fine ran became famous for her philosophy of Objectivism, which is a nice way of saying being a selfish asshole. But I'm Rennes philosophy of Objectivism is still leaving its Mark on politics and culture. And none of it would likely have happened had a young Canadian named Nathaniel. Brandon not begun an unlikely friendship and romance with rand three decades after her death the writer, I kn- rand is still the subject of serious debate. And not just over how to pronounce her name and ran on wrong. Ran not an ran and ran I n rans told us n ran for the record is on rand and in those three decades after her death her books continue to sell more than three hundred thousand copies year. So critics may dismiss her out of hand. But as contributor sandy Bork tells us in part two of rec- res the long. Arm on rand they're missing the point my philosophy. Emphasis is the concept of man as a heroic being with his own happiness as the model of his life with productive Chieveley. He's noble activity, and the reason as he's up to. Rand was twenty one when she fled Saint Petersburg for America. The Russian revolution was a disaster for her family. She saw her father lose everything he'd worked for his whole life. When the great depression hit the US capitalism appeared to be broken and collectivist thinking was on the rise. Uprise in Dade came to private it became related prize. Three at upper. But I'm wanted to show that capitalism wasn't broken. So she created her own kind of individualist made in America hero wish to defy common standards. Is that my own standards you intend to fight against a whole. Well, if necessary her work was largely panned by critics, but the negative reviews. Only intensified is passion to set America straight a passion fueled by her young acolyte and lover Nathaniel, Brandon, as I said those words, I love you. I knew that my life had changed irrevocably. I'm I met Nathaniel in March nineteen fifty at that point she'd been writing the novel that would become atlas shrugged for almost seven years. She wanted her novel to inoculate America against the evils of collectivism. The working title was the strike. And it sort of came from two things Jennifer burns teaches history at Stanford University, and is the author of goddess of the market on rand and the American right? She was given access to all of on rans, private letters and diaries. There was a lot of labor, unrest and strikes immediately after World War Two, and there is rest in California. And in Hollywood, and she was opposed to the strike. And then she said, well, maybe all go on strike, and she that oh, wait a second. Interesting. And that's where that experience of her father kinda came back and she began thinking about well, what if I went on strike what if it wasn't the workers in the factories that went on strike, but what if it was the capitalist who ran the factories? Atlas shrugged is a distortion story set in a not so distant future where American businessmen and entrepreneurs are fed up with increasing government regulations in light of recent events. I'd say your position is untenable would've been transfer of four thousand tons of Reardon metal to Kim dander in clear violated the fair share mandate, we've done you. Hank Reardon is a successful businessman whose developed new kind of steel that will revolutionize the railroad industry. Very simple now. You do liver. Order except our generous compensation new deniger don't spend the next ten years. Pretty happy violated one of your new. Laws four. The right people don't break him. They're of no use whatsoever. Like father who shop with seized, by the communists? Hank Reardon also refuses to conform. But unlike is father, Hank Raritan is given his day in court. How do you plead, sir? I do not recognize courts right to try me know to recognize any of my actions as crime, if you believe you may seize my property, simply because you need it. Well, then so does any burglar. Mr. Reardon, you are misrepresenting the letter and the intent of the fair share law. It is based on the highest principle. The principle of the public good as defined by those would dictate and regulate our behavior in our homes and our businesses stealing their power from our liberty. So I think she was trying to present the real idea that inventors and capitalists like Reardon have a right to own the property that they create or control that that is really the market that has to decide. You wouldn't want it misunderstood that you work for nothing, but your own profit, the I wanted understood clearly I not recognize the good of others as a justification for my existence. If their fair share demands that I get nothing for my labors public. Good be damned on have no part of it. And how does that benefit your fellow man? I could tell you ways. Hundred weighs thousands of jobs. Billions in revenue fueling our economy, despite your efforts to destroy the very foundation of art systems and believe most of my fellow men would say the same. Many things she wants to say, but among the most important was that capitalism a question of hard labor, but it was also a question of imagination of thought of creativity that the person who visualized the way all these things fit together. The person who designed the factory the person who thought of the product the person who kept everyone moving together to a common goal that was a sort of intellectual work that and that was a gift, and that was rare and that was unique, and it was appropriate for those people to be rewarded with outsize monetary returns and with control of their businesses. But when the captains of industry realized that America isn't listening they go on strike. The strike is led by the brilliant, and mysterious billionaire John goal. Is John Galt? John goal is this shadowy mystery figure this was supposed to be her ideal. Man, he was a creator. He was visionary. You know, he's a said to be a brilliant physicist who can invent a new source of energy. He's also very principled. And he believes that those people who make the inventions and the discoveries ought to be rewarded, and he's not willing to work in a system where you know, his genius and his inventions are not appreciated so on the one hand, he's a skilled intellectual thinker inventor scientists, and then he turns out the course of the book to be a skilled organizer and persuader who's able to get all the other industrialists in creators who are also being misused underappreciated. He's able to convince them that they need to withdraw. They needed to step away. Let the system crash down and then rebuild it behind the scenes. John goal. Creates his own secret utopia in a valley. In the Colorado mountains, which he calls Goltz gold. It's really sort of an idealized society. And so this was where they went to hide and to recreate their world, they all head for gold Gulch, except one character Dag, Nick taggered. She's the heroine, and may narrator of the story that is correct. The first train on the jungle line will run July twenty second. Pleasure. Thank you. Dag me. Taggered is a beautiful independent sexually liberated woman who happens to run a transcontinental railroad. You can do whatever you want with your men Mr. Brady, but that train will run if I have to drive the damn thing myself because Mr. Brady if that bridge collapses there, the movie really opens with a shot of dagger in a power suit walking ordering people around left and right. I'm not interested in their opinions. The knows you go by my own responsibility for any of this. You don't have to take responsibility to I will it's hard to stress. How unusual that was in the fiction of the nineteen fifties. It just was really really unusual. I think it presented women with a model in ideal that they weren't seeing in many other places I might have to blast tunnel here. Few hundred feet or less, and I need to steal trestle to bring the track across this gorge track late in three months, she made clear that there wasn't a trade off in her mind between traditional feminity and having this very powerful business role Dag material dates her way through atlas shrugged winning the hearts of many, rich and brilliant men until she finally lands her new ideal man tag crush lands her plane and goals goals. And she gets rescued by none other than John gold himself. My guest prisoner choice is yours. You're the first person to come into the valley by accident Dagmar. Finally sees the world she'd been fighting for what she and I n- herself hoped America could be food for one month at the end. You can choose stare go. The idealized world of iron rant at works. Of course, you know, the way she stacks the deck. Gary Weiss's, author of on ran nation, the hidden struggle for America's soul. The Randy in hero is the sort of person that you would want to have running a business. You know, person of of great integrity who isn't just out for the quick buck. The cast of characters in shrugged, surely don't need to have any kind of regulators because these are are trustworthy individuals who don't need to be regulated. Because that's the way she wrote the book rand argued that while the world, she was creating didn't exist, it could exist. If people worked with integrity, and if they fully embraced her philosophy. And if they fully implemented it in their daily lives, that's a lot of Fs Gary Weiss and atlas shrugged. There are no children. There are no elderly. Nobody who really needs help. Nobody who can't work. Don't have anybody with you know, preps some kind of dementia. The has to be confined to a nursing home with those people don't exist, and there's no children. So there's no detach K children. So she she stacks backed by showing eliminating entire portions of society instructing her narrative and stack at she does in the perfect world of Goltz Gulch. Everyone is happy productive in living. According to their means, it's a utopia. One more altruism does not exist, and selfishness is the first shoe carryanne Biondi teaches philosophy at the Marymount Manhattan college in New York. Most people think it's a selfish person is somebody who only cares about satisfying any and all of their desires to maximize heavy material stuff, even if it means trampling on and hurting other people ran explicitly rejects that understanding of it what she means by it is that you're to be the ultimate beneficiary of your action. Ultimate does not mean. Only and it's not one that's conflictual with other people. It doesn't reduce us to base desires and just the having stuff and having things at any cost to ourselves and other people in Gulf Gulch trade is the only currency. It's a capitalist dreamland where men and women who love industry technology, science and art feel enormous admiration and attraction for each other. But you can choose the stair go as long as I am alive. I will not desert about all that is mine to fight. The easiest. Now rand believes in character. She is a wrist Attilio in that way, she believes in kind of synergy between the system and individual character Paul koetter teaches philosophy at the university of Seattle. So it it's all going to work out. And here is where I just can't see how there's any guarantee and all of that the question of character is much more complicated than the Paul ran was on the road side of history because she was fighting the tide, and the tide is of regulation, the tide has government that, you know, this is something that the people want they want Medicare. They want an old age pension. They they they want to be protected from bad businessmen. So she's going against the tide of history, which is toward consumer protection. And try to turn back the clock on may have been swimming against the tide of history by the late nineteen fifties. But she didn't have to do much to fight communism. Then with the Cold War heating up. So was the red scare. Already an iron curtain at dropped around. Poland hungary. Gary. But this is Europe you. Let's see what else where in the small town of. Peaceful. Isn't it? The red ball people police. Public utilities. Watch carefully. What happened editor? He goes to jail. To delight. Conservatives were now beginning to embrace capitalism along with the image of the entrepreneur as a hero Lenny's tool that allows us trade with one of the keystone of civilization, having money's not the measure of a man manages how he got it. If he produced by creating value as money as a token of honor years later, many of these conservatives with disappoint her. But in the nineteen fifties, they seem finally to be listening to our message. A message captured urgently an atlas shrugged when society starts collapsing. For the duration of the national emergency. The statutes directive ten to eighty nine show remain in effect. Copyrights. Shelby transferred to the federal government. Wages and other forms of income are hereby frozen. This narrative arc of atlas shrugged showing the ultimate collapse of society has meant profoundly compelling for so many readers because what I found again. And again, my research is people saying this is a prophecy. This is saying how it will be. If we continue to follow these policies if we continue to support you pick. What it is that you're opposed to we continue to support the new deal. We continue to support the great society. We continue to spend this much of we continue to regulate this much. And I think she really wanted to take it to the point of true collapse. Again, going back to her Russian experience to show that society's can fall apart. But I do think having gone through someone living in Russia to the point where people were starving that was a really important lesson for her, and she felt that Americans needed to know that and needed to see that an imagine that happening in their own country. And not just think of it is something that happened in far off European lands. But something that could happen to them while atlas shrugged showed society fall. Apart? Hainan Faneuil were coming together as lovers they let their respective spouses know that it'd be just for a year. It would last almost twenty it became a secret from all of their friends all of the people who would come over every Saturday night. You know, she just made clear that he was number one. So that the collective was clearly stratified society, Nathan was studying psychology. And she told people that he was working on this sort of psychological wing of Jek visible. She really made him into a leader within this group. And you know, it was what kept ran going to the final push to finish. Her book was exciting for both of them at first it was rewarding. But it was a it was a very tough act to manage in nineteen fifty seven nine walked out of her office and announced that she'd finished atlas shrugged the impact on our life. And the Faneuil 's was monumental a recall little of that evening, except an overwhelming sense of solemnity and joy. Oy and avait distant hint of sadness coming from the knowledge that precious part of my life had now come to a close we'd been part of that book. I mean, we been days and hours and weeks and months discussing the ideas discussing the characters this is Barbara Brandon and wife at an atlas society conference in two thousand seven fifty years after the book was published vade become reality Jewess, hag Murden to me was real is the people sat which in class probably more realize fire new student infinitely better than just people. The novel had been thirteen years in the making Frank designed the cover jacket and inside 'instead occasion page read to Frank O'Connor, and Nathaniel Brandon I and Frank and the Faneuil, and I just few days before the official publication went to the Random House window, which fringe on on Madison Avenue to see if the book was there if they displayed it and there it was and the four stood looking at it. It was the first time we had seen the book out side of our own private world because I am department. And here's what's out in the world this book that had been our life for years. We just stood staring and either she said suss. And I realized later I could've taken terribly presumptuous Ryan written the book. Head that. She understood I mentioned, she laughed and she said, yes, that's us and she often commented on that remark in the years after that she'd really liked. They hope that maybe. Now, there be serious public debate about is ideas. But that didn't happen. It seems an expression of the author's determination to crush, the enemies of truth. Her truth, of course, as a battering ram demolishes the walls of a hostile city. The reviews of prior books and plays were mostly negative. But atlas shrugged got shredded loudly Misron proclaims her love of life. It seems clear that the book is written out of hate miss rand can only create gargoyles not characters. And. It was awful. He could not have been worse when you should be negative reviews. We were prepared for that we weren't prepared for what seems like outpouring of hatred and distortion of lies about the book. You couldn't get it into our heads. Just was possible. She was really really crushed by the negative reviews of atlas shrugged. Jennifer burns heart of it was that she for years now she'd had his group of admiring young people, and she expected that she'd get the same adulation and admirations from the world at large when the book came out. And instead people were so negative about the book, the reviews were terrible terrible review after terrible or after terrible review, and what really begin to hurt her the most she dwelled on the most was that nobody came out to defend her. It was one thing to get bad reviews. But it was another to get bad reviews and have nobody meeting those reviews and saying wait, stop you've missed it. This is really important. This woman has something to say, we should listen she had fans everywhere letters of appreciation up to the ceiling. But no one known figure who to cheat something important who. Stood obliquely. She felt in that sense. She got nothing back from the world that began a lot of bitterness which just escalated over the years part of it was that she had already burned her bridges with the conservative organizers and intellectuals she knew not to mention it's very strong, anti-christian orientation, just repel them. So there really were very few figures who might have been politically sympathetic to her who were willing to stand up and say, this is an important contribution. I'm fell into a deep depression that would last for two years, and she would never write fiction. Again, Barbara Nathaniel were stunned. They immediately contacted their thousands of followers and ask them to cancel their subscriptions to magazines, which had published negative reviews and to denounce the negative reviews. Wherever they found them Nathaniel spent his days trying to console line from his biography my years with an rand I thought that for. All these years on had been obliged to Mercer self kind of alternate reality the world of outlet, shrugged. And that now with their task accomplish. She was bringing her creation back to the world in which we lived. But I was wrong the truth, which I would need some time to discover that unhedged disappeared into that alternate reality and was not coming back. She was like the strikers in her own novel who having seen John God's vision, give up everything and disappear because the life. They have lived is no longer acceptable to them. She all of this. Whoa. To Nathaniel Brandon. And he would come to visit her for what had once been there meant time together. And instead, she would cry and wonder out loud to him why this happened. And now she was struggling with this very very strong depression, which she carefully hid from everyone except for Frank and th-annual, Barbara those are the only three who knew how truly devastated she was. She kept her head up in public by this point Nathaniel announced to on that this had to end and that he personally make America listen. So he sat down with atlas shrugged systemized her philosophy. And turned her thoughts into lectures that he would deliver in public, ladies and gentlemen. If I were asked to summarize the essentials of the objectives philosophy in a single. I would say that Objectivism hold the reality. The extra world is what it is independent of consciousness, independent of anyone's knowledge judgment, Billy hopes wishes or appears that facts are back that a as a things are what they are witness had done in his lectures was to present I and series as a single consistent philosophy which I had not done todate. So he gathered her ideas together and presented them in his Twitty, basic lectures of Objectivism, including ideas of hers that she had not yet published and you have to have that before you can have a movement, and what he did was he placed an ad in the New York Times said I'm going to give some lectures on the ideas of an rand and at the end of the lecture miss rand herself will appear and take questions, and he rented lecture hall and soul tickets and. They filled up the lecture hall, and then he did another one and another one and another one Nathanielsz workshops and lectures were so successful that he started up in the Faneuil Brandon institute and like any good capitalist. He charged admission, and I agreed that all proceeds would go to Nathaniel. But they needed a brand. That's when Nathaniel thought they should come up with a name to describe her philosophy. I was bothered no way to name who am I we didn't have objectives. You know? We have something goes to call ourselves. So I says were advocacy Lazy-faire capitalism. I and that doesn't do it grows. Number one. It puts the emphasis on business, but we need something more broad something. Like what it basically is philosophically globally. Not words stands politically Objectivism held that enlightened self interest is good. That is reached for the best in yourself. Find the hero within you pursue your dreams and creative goals as Nathaniel Brandon makes clear in this nineteen Eighty-nine appearance on reason TV Objectivism didn't actually mean getting rich and powerful power and money to register. That may shock a lot of people. But I tell you she lived like aesthetic otherworldly person. She lived very very modestly should know. Interesting material was acquisition, no interest of interior luxury. She lived in many ways, personally, very spiritual existence very much of the mind. What you really admired was people who are interested in creative work. She thought and I would say that what exists? Is this world of this life at one should honor it and do the best with it and not endure suffering passively on the assumption that sometime in some other dimension or some other life than you will be happy. But if you are though, your old life, you happy this place to fight for this here on earth. Do you ought to get yourself? A good press agent to sell you to the public in this scene from outlet shrugged. Hank Reardon gets unwanted collectivist. Advice from a reporter Middleham sailing. Not me, thank you. But you don't want the public against you public opinion. You know? I mean a lot as far as I can tell doesn't mean a damn thing one way or another the press is against do. They have time to waste. I don't say you're intractable you're ruthless. Your only goal is to make money. My only goal is to make money happy. You shouldn't say it. But I'm message was being said in a Faneuil in Barbara were making sure that their audience is understood that a free society, meant individualism and laissez faire capitalism had to be paramount, but to horror the conservatives who'd begun to champion free market capitalism. We're now starting to link it with event Jellicoe Christianity. I'm was having. None of it and criticize them publicly. I won't make something clear. I'm not. Serve it to anyone destroys his it the conservative because they do not know how to preach capitalism to explain it to the people, and because they're all based on religious outweighs and on that the nation of ideas, you cannot save this. She was also very inspired by Friedrich niches depiction of the slave morality and the master morality, and his argument that Christian morality was in some way, a development of those without power in society to sort of subjugate those who are stronger, and she really took to heart. His critique of Christianity. And she came to see that as she saw it celebration of the meek shall inherit the earth as really the problem because it taught people that individually they were not important. What was important was the greater good and critically? What was moral was to suppress your own interests and favor the interests of someone else? Instead of you that was essentially what was moral, and she thought is long as people think the right thing to do is to sacrifice themselves for others or put the interests of others ahead of their own interests programs, like communism, socialism, totalitarian states, they'll always have a way to grow because they'll tell people we are doing something that is good and morally right in the nineteen fifties. Evangelo calls were looking for a political party to reflect their moral values, and the Republicans were looking for more voters that confluence was when the religious right was born and the cherry picking of ideas began. You're listening to ideas on CBC radio one, Sirius XM and CBC dot CA slash ideas. Where you can always get our podcast. This is the second of our two part series, the long arm Abidin round why she still matters. I just want to speak to you a little bit about nine ran in what she meant to me in my life and the fight were engaged here in congress. This is Republican speaker of the house Paul Ryan the fight. We are in here. And make no mistake about is a fight of individualism versus collectivism in almost every fight. We're involved in here on Capitol Hill. It is a fight that usually comes down to one conflict individualism versus collectivism individualism versus collectivism that dichotomy is taken straight out of Ayn rand's moral universe. A university of brace by millions around the world. And in the corridors of geopolitical power here again is contributor sandy Bork. I was still reeling from all the bad reviews. Atlas shrugged received. But you started to take her own thoughts public. Ladies and gentlemen. I'm speaking here today on the assumption them thrashing liberals that is of man tag needs. Therefore, I'm fine had charisma on stage. She'd present her arguments with stunning clarity and precision. It is incredible. That could be speaking in the greatest city in the world on topic at capitalism versus coming businessmen victim Bill of to say if and when you pay. But you have to save it. If you have then noblest onto -bility, your proper moral so interesting and now proudly to the hearing the whole world, including the. And over time it did lift her spirits, and she did look at those crowds in the auditorium in the work that Nathaniel was doing and said, I'm coming back to life. I've made it through some of the collective started offering their own courses barber Brandon offered a course Alan Greenspan the future head of the Federal Reserve Board. Who is now a member of the collective he started giving a course people in Los Angeles wanted to do a course and they began franchising and pretty soon. There was a bona fide objectives movement based out of these Faneuil Brandon institutes on rand club started popping up on college campuses. People started calling them objectives emotional inflation. Two two. Practice. And soon got the media attention. She'd been longing for. Television portrait from our gallery of colorful people. It was nineteen fifty nine and first TV appearance in the US early. United States, perhaps the most challenging and unusual. New philosophy has been forged by novelist. I'm Ryan his Rams point of view is still comparatively unknown in America. But it ever did take hold. It would revolutionize our lives. Immediately gets right to the point. Let me start by quoting a review of this novel. Atlas shrugged that appeared in. Newsweek. It said that you are out to destroy almost every edifice in the contemporary American way of life. Our Judeo Christian religion modified government, regulated capitalism room by the majority will other abuse of said that you scorn churches and the concept of God. These accurate criticisms. Yes, I'm had already burned her bridges with the religious, right? And she was about to burn them with academic intellectuals as well. And this. This of yours come out of my own lined with a so knowledgeable of debt to stop is the only philosopher ever influence, I devised the rest of life philosophy myself. She never did submit any of her work to recognize peer review journals or periodical 's academics may have shunned and ridiculed Objectivism because rand wouldn't give credit to the thinkers who preceded her. But after the Mike Wallace interview, thousands of letters arrived on doorstep showering her with praise and questions about our philosophy and sales of atlas shrugged skyrocketed it even got a few favorable reviews. I kn- rand is destined to rank in history as the outstanding novelist in profound philosopher of the twentieth. Century by nineteen sixty five an Faneuil Brandon institute was offering courses in more than thirty cities globally, it no longer attracted just students, but scientists businessmen. Philosophers engineers artists. Celebrities and politicians. Your host on the other mind from Alan Greenspan's, nineteen Eighty-three appearance on the TV program. Open mind, I ion rand whose those fountainhead end shrugged surfaced some decades ago. Most dramatic the most Mandic statements resume fair of an anti-government foster. Alan Greenspan who still private rather than public. Greenspan? So he became a very influential well known person largely through the assistance of random through his participation in the rand movement and giving speeches four and that was one of the things that really helped his career over the years. Link for human species. Personal. From somehow. Since Sofer steam in business. He was pretty big in the early days of the collective he he became powerfully became head of the council of economic advisers nineteen seventy four became head of the Federal Reserve and writing say there is a limit. What is that is so fixed about human nature? There is a limit to our Reverend. There was a limit to the degree to which we will be over others. Vast majority of Americans have indicated ventures. How they live their lives for considering fourth. Otherwise over time, he became a powerful in government in the United States government, and he was always a random Helen Greenspan. Even started his own lecture series called free enterprise economics, and he contributed pieces to on offense newsletter the objective st- became known as a a real major free markets thinker. And if you look at the at the essays that he wrote for rand which republished in capitalism, the unknown ideal which is in print which you can buy pick up at any bookstore nowadays extremist except one of them women's call the assault on integrity. And that's it's an argument for eliminating, and it kind of regulation even building codes, even safety codes and fire codes just just just getting rid of them. You can find a link to Alan Greenspan's essays on our website, CBC dot CA slash ideas. When Greenspan became federal chairman of the US reserve in nineteen eighty seven he immediate. Began repealing laws that he saw as impeding the free market. The most important one was a law enacted in nineteen thirty three under the new deal a law that separated Wall Street from main street called the glass steagle act class Steagall offered protection to people who entrusted their savings to commercial banks Greenspan got rid of it. And it continued down the deregulation path for the next twenty years. Fluential man familiar 's he was not able to impose rand's philosophy on the United States, but enough of for beliefs gut into the system sort of pushed away through the sheets of paper like spilled Bod living. They push their way through society that the in fact certain aspects of her of her philosophy were in fact, an act in nineteen ninety eight Greenspan gave lenders the green light to gamble. And so they did private lenders led the way and later commercial banks jumped in all engaging in high risk ventures two years later Greenspan lowered interest rates to one percent fueling. And even bigger boom for business, but the low rates meant banks could no longer get a good return on the money. They were lending so they turn to high yield mortgage backed securities, and we all know where that led the Dow Jones industrial average dropped more than nine hundred points. President trading at six. The early two thousand win over the counter, derivatives radio regulated. And this was one of the one of the underlying reasons for the two thousand eight financial crisis where we did not have adequate regulation of derivatives, and that can be traced directly back to Greenspan and from Alan Greenspan back to on rand no political economic system had proved eloquently or had benefited mankind greatly capitalism. The moral code, which is implicit in capitalism. Is that men everyman? He's an end in himself. Not demeaned to the end of others. That men must be but he's on fake. And that men might do is run another as traitors by our choice to benefit by the mid nineteen sixties, Alan Greenspan and the rest of Iran's collective had brought prominence and respect ability to the objectives movement. She was now attracting an older more highly educated audience. Than before einste- books had already become required. Reading among younger people the generation that would later be called baby boomers, but I'm dismay some of these boomers to be were starting to call themselves. Libertarians she'd already given up on conservatives who to Bandon reason for religion. But she thought hippie libertarians were worse because they abandoned reason for drug addled self-indulgence, she had come by that by the end of her career to really prize rationality above all else. So she despised the hippies. She thought they were sort of mindless mystical collectivist. But she didn't like libertarians either. Even though libertarians were saying, we are inspired by Iran, and her vision of a society with strictly limited government on rand is are is where we got started. And it's absolutely true. For the libertarian movement in the nineteen seventies it really grows out of appreciation for Iran's works. And so they would be holding her up is there. No actual leader. And she would say don't make me into your hero. This pattern of cherry pick. Picking and misrepresentation that had begun with conservatives in the fifties would continue to play her even long after her death eines work. Also, inspired a new generation of conservatives to do their own cherry picking as conservatives were working out who they were and what they stood for. They were looking for deals, and they were looking for principals in atlas shrugged seemed to predict that the liberal policies being followed would lead to ruin. And there was another way didn't had to do with unfettered capitalism in the celebration of individual became very attractive for many young people and atlas shrugged really became the sort of gateway drug to the conservative movement. We're republican. As much more than the result of their political differences or miracle mistakes and many people inspired by rand turn to Barry Goldwater. The result of a fundamentally absolutely wrong view of man as nature and his destiny. And also had a friendship of sorts with Goldwater and also supported him very strongly in her newsletter. So if you liked Iran, and then you looked into a newsletter you find her pointing at Barry Goldwater? You're alive for your your liberties return of yours. And if you went and learn about Barry Goldwater, he might remind you a little bit of John Galt. Elevators. Down bridges. No less than in life himself in just Welby. Our guy. Is he took on this sort of independent, westerner persona? He was going to stand up for the individual smothering government not. In the land of collectivism, not. Bullying. So it seemed like her fiction and the actual politics of the early nineteen sixties we're really converging, and there was a political movement, and you could go from Iran's intellectual movement into this larger political movement and back again. So she became a stream in a much larger river tributary feeding into a much larger river. Is she is probably one of the most intense Ospital, perhaps intellectual ICES in America today. I think you will find your most unusual in most controversial but weapon, please. I n random. In nineteen sixty seven. I'm was invited onto the tonight show the Johnny Carson. Tonight. I'm delighted to be here. I know that despite some popular misconceptions on did not think the government should be abolished and leave us with a dog eat dog world, man. That includes the government has the right to initiate fourth and the person meant to act against his own judgement. She saw a world with police the courts and the army to protect people's property rights and to counteract crime. She thought a free country could coexist with any person. But it couldn't co exist with altruism doesn't want to say work. Self interest is served by by not producing working. Now, if you asking me should have been be productive. Yes. And that is not limited ability. Yes. But a may have in the studio thrive too. But as his primary goal and if man. Does not want to be productive. He is immortal while I'm star continued to rise. Thank you so much. Thank you so much. Thank you. So relationship with Nathaniel was about to crash lecturing at a new course at a young woman. Ten years my junior, I'm thirty one. She's twenty one comes to New York. Take rather lectures, why because she has rare that admired the fountain in that mistrial. And this is Patricia all the layers moving through the final explosion are now on the board by marriage to Barbara's predictably in succeeding stages of this integration. Even though we become closer. And closer friends is still wanting a resumption of an affair Nathaniel kept his affair secret from nine for four years when he and Barbara, divorced. They agreed not to tell on. Finally, there's this tremendous confrontation in nineteen sixty eight after four dreadful years in which the full truth. A that. I don't want that kind of continuation of relationship. Be that I'm in love with three should've been having an affair with their skulls who champion clinical rush analogy. The reason went ballistic this woman. Really, no wants me. Did I'm kind of dazed slow to grasp the magnitude of the war that is now about to be launched rights article to me and the publication co created called the objectives. Jennifer burns, the objectives movement really blew up after the ending of the affair between the annual in Iran. She ended up excommunicating both of them. And then publishing letter is something to the effect of they had betrayed her. They were no longer objectives. They were no longer affiliated with her. Influences my publisher with whom she has association to cancel the contract for my first big book, the psychology of self esteem, which had previously been proclaiming was work of genius. And she's now convinced that the brand has finished having ended his associated with red, but Nathaniel despite the attacks began to thrive his book, the psychology of self esteem, eventually got published and with sell millions of copies, and he became known as the father of the self esteem movement. Einste- books continue to sell by word of mouth. But by the nineteen seventies without Nathaniel and Barbara the objective movement had all but ground to a halt. I'm began turning down. Almost all media requests. Here's a woman who's read by millions around the world. She may be our most debated philosopher. I am pleased to present. I'm ran ran from one of her rare media parents in later life from the Phil Donahue show in nineteen. Seventy nine I was fifteen years ago when I was in heist Janney went to college. I read the news. Biography. Let her make her point letter. Make a point here's earlier, I would have taken the time to educate people about our ideas. I didn't come here to be judged by this point she wanted her quiet life with Frank BAC whose health was suffering from years of heavy drinking in nineteen seventy nine at age eighty two Frank passed away the years of heavy smoking and phetamine news had caught up with on rugged individualism lost its best known champion yesterday with the death of writer AIn rand in New York or nonfiction works included. The virtue of selfishness for her funeral on requested that giant dollar sign be placed by grave, and that several bodyguards be present to prevent Nathaniel Brandon from attending she left strict instructions with our state to never again allow anyone to institutionalize her ideas or profit from her name something she made clear in newsletter in nineteen sixty eight. Objectivism is not an organized movement, and is not to be regarded as such by any fun. I shall not establish or endorse any type of school or organization purporting to represent or be a spokesman for Objectivism all this commandeering and cherry picking of Objectivism left, it ripe for lamp winning. Oh. Oh. Mom. He's in that book the bible of right wing loser. The ridiculing and shunning still happening. This win. I'm ran how she still if they. Three decades after her death the writer on rand is still the subject of serious debate. And not just over how to pronounce her name on wrong on rant. Not an ran in ran. I n rans told us I on around. The charade continuing American politics last week, Donald Trump likened himself to Iran protagonist going onto say the novel fountainhead relates to business beauty life. An interim oceans. It's easy to see why a self-styled dealmaker like Donald Trump would claim to be like I rant rant herself would be horrified at the association he's against laissez faire economics. She's four them. His base includes the religious, right? And I had no time for religion. She took public stands against racism and violence. She was pro abortion, and the list goes on as does the misuse and abuse of her thinking, this is US Senator rand Paul money to spend all everybody wants. There's still a disconnect. This music. We concert. Somewhere. Still. Goals. Phil. Ideas have long been a flashpoint for collectivists who tend to be left leaning liberals, and the individualists who tend to be conservative, can that gap ever be bridged don't think that is really very much to do with rand or philosophy except manage it and understand it and cope with it. Really? And understand what's wrong with it. And understand the aspects of that are right. Just to understand it. You know, the world isn't perfect, and we need do need to look out for sure that's absolutely important, but rand takes everything extremes. And that's the problem. I think it's people tend to get in these positions and just start sort of shooting across the trenches at each other and taking the time to understand where people come from. And in the case of rand many people look at her at her extremist positions, and sort of go no farther, but I think it's helpful to know the context she came from and understand that she did have something important to say about the ways in which date power has been used and abused and the w-. As in which we have to think carefully about its overall, meaning and purpose, and now with her ideas, both widespread and widely misrepresented word left wrestling with the question what it's actually is on ranch legacy. I think her legacy was really stating. So clearly that there was not just a practical case to be made for limiting government and organizing society around market exchange, but there was a moral case to be made for it. And that there was a way in which organizing society around market principles and limiting government intervention could allow people to uncover their talents and their abilities and exercise independence and autonomy. And not doing that could be and should be considered immoral act and should be recognized as something that has worth unto itself. And I think she made that argument, I think that argument still stands I think most people will want to supplement that with. Other understandings of the good life and the good society and not just stop there. But I think she got a lot of people started thinking in that direction. Maybe it's only fitting to give the last word on rent herself through her capitalist hero cult. Don't let the fire go out spark by irreplaceable spark in confusion, and despair. Sure of your path. The world you desire can be one. It exists. It is real. It is possible. It is yours. You were listening to the second and last part of our series, the long arm of rand why she still matters by contributor send e Bork readings by Chris how Jeff goods Lisa God, pre and Roxana Spicer special. Thanks to the atlas society and reason TV Liz, non our associate producer technical production. Daniel. Greg Kelly is the executive producer by dis. Paulk editing. For more CBC podcasts. Goto CBC dot CA slash podcasts.

Ayn rand America rand Barbara Nathaniel atlas Nathaniel Brandon United States rand Hank Reardon Helen Greenspan Iran Jennifer burns Senator rand Paul New York Frank Barbara Brandon sandy Bork writer John Galt Paul Kennedy
Second-Listen Saturday: The Parenting We Got

Parenting Roundabout

21:01 min | 6 d ago

Second-Listen Saturday: The Parenting We Got

"Welcome to Second. Listen Saturday on the parenting roundabout podcast where we share some fun moments for a past episode for your weekend listening pleasure. Look up new episodes every Monday through Friday. We are jumping into the Wayback machine or maybe on to the therapist couch happy fun times all around really flee from this podcast. Now only go outside into the sunshine. This is your parental warning your advisory. I didn't yeah off or if you're just in a mood where you'd like to wallow keep listening, but that's okay right place, Nicole depressing topic. We're allowed to be reflective and depressive every once in a while. They you know, once in a while, it's okay to be all Pollyanna about every night while I'm trying to sleep. Yes. Well and obviously one of the things off That we do as parents is we often in a crisis. We you know, remember and re-enact the behaviors that what she saw growing up and and handle situations in a similar manner. Sometimes we try not to and wage. Obviously. We reflect a lot on the parenting that we got and you know, I'm not going to do that. No way. I would ever treat my kids that way or maybe there was some things that your package to do that we're great and that you do carry on in your parenting life right now. So that's kind of our our topic. It's it doesn't have to be that depressing it can be grown now but yeah, our topic is is sort of centered around the kinds of parents that we had. Not so much the kinds of parents that we are right now, but what kind of parents did we have in we're are we over all satisfied with their parents abilities off every performance review time when people who are deceased in my case, it seems kind of harsh. Yeah, no speak ill of the Dead. Well where we flyer where you guys your parents are all still living, right? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I wish I could kill sharing information. I see I see. I don't know Catherine. Do you want to start or Terry off the parenting the quality parenting that you got growing up cuz you know the sixties and seventies seventies were full of parenting. I'm Not Dead. Sounds very facetious, but I'll go first since I was already casting aspersions on the deceased, but I had I had very good time growing up. I had a very strong, you know upbringing and I have I have really no complaints. You know, but I certainly did pick up neuroses of my mother that drove me crazy at the time and now I am doing exactly the same things to my daughter. I know it I can see it. I can recognize the pattern. I cannot stop myself. Yeah, so in that way it's like I would like to go into the Wayback machine and off either treat my mom nicer cuz I now know where she was coming from and how impossible it is to stop even though, you know, you are driving your daughter crazy and walk away from you. But also to say perhaps some therapy would do you good mom avoid passing this into the Next Generation? I don't know. I mean I can see I look back now and I see things so differently and know, you know, I don't think that I would do anything differently, but I am Furniture to put differently or talk to her about why she does what she does. I mean she had a very different upbringing for mine and she did have some you know some unhappiness with her past which carried forward I did not I had an idyllic childhood. I can't really complain about anything but you know, it was a little odd in the my dad was much older than my mother had already raised a daughter. So I was really my mom's project and well, I knew my Dad loved me and he was you know, certainly there all the time, you know, it wasn't I feel like we had necessarily a really strong relationship wasn't a bad relationship. It was just not a realistic and you know, by the way I now see my husband doing the things my my dad did the drove me crazy. So I don't know what's up with that. That's right. He wasn't there wasn't there and yet he still girls don't like being teased daughter's don't appreciate that dad's think it's a good way to interact. It's really dead. Can I tell you from my experience it's really not. Yeah, he doesn't want to hear it. So everybody's in some way reproducing the bad things of the parenting they got and one hopes the good things too. But I mean, I think that the parenting I got was good for me. It made me very independent it bit my mom on the butt cuz I wound up moving really far away and just doing my own thing. You know, she raised me to be that woman and then I went off and did those things so, you know, I think that in retrospect she might have tried to make me more dependent in home made. So maybe she didn't even apparently would have had the effect of driving you away that I well. I mean what she did drove me away in in a positive like I do anything I can go anywhere and also, you know as we've discussed I see myself doing things with my daughter now that I hated when they were done to me, but I had the wherewithal to go away right? My daughter just has to live in my house. Take it you have such such confused and erotic feelings about your upbringing or not. Really. I mean my parents are both still moving and I believe even occasionally listen to this podcast. Okay, if you had a great upbringing and everything was perfect. Yeah. No, I mean really it off. It was it was good. My parents are actually Educators and they were professors of Education in my mom is early childhood education. So, you know, they would think they would know from from both book learning and doing their, you know, raising their family that they kind of knew what they were doing that also meant that all of the because my mom worked because both my parents were working. We often had babysitters and caregivers, but you. They were like students and grad students and in education. So that's a pretty good. Wow, pretty good qualification. So Thursday, we we know it's you know, Iowa is appreciated that you know, we did have those good other people in our lives in addition to our parents, you know, I never felt like oh my parents are never around and you know, we always have babysitters like a video is really really liked the people that were helping my parents care for us. So they were good. They were good peeps. So we were lucky that way of them are family still in touch with so so yeah, I sort of like Terry I don't I don't I can't think of of complaints or off and and maybe I'm just not introspective enough for me. I need some therapy to find the things that I shouldn't be too long, but funny, I don't remember how this like this topic came up in in the midst of some other dog. Question where we said? Oh, we should write that down. Like did you get the parenting you needed and I don't remember. How that came with the context was. Oh that was just me throwing that out there. Clearly. I had I can see you have some issues Nicole. I know my parents were great providers and they gave us lots of life experience somewhere along the way my mom missed a few memos on raising teen girls. She was because she herself was raised on a very isolated Farm in the middle of Australia and had a twin so she never really You know, they went out once in a while to dances, but then she didn't really have that whole peer experience and off and then she was also sent to a Catholic boarding school for part of her life. So it came to raising a teenage daughter. Yeah, she did not know where to to start and unfortunately, she did not have access or know how to access them parenting books. So yes and it's gone and cold. She she just yeah, she was flying by the seat of her pants. And so that was dead. Yeah, so, I'm really I really try hard my dad my dad great father. He he traveled a lot right? Well he worked down. And he he didn't he just he worked he didn't do much travel, but he was just kind of like on the sidelines. It was like watching a train wreck my mother and I were in the room shelter. That was maybe a father in a strategy. Yeah, I'm time cuz my dad was sort of that way too. It's like, oh I was my mom's project and whenever we pretty much stayed out of it unless I disrespected my mom and then yeah, he was involved. Yeah brief moment. We'll be back at my place and then he went back to sea levels. Yeah, and I mean, you know my yeah, I mean my dad was I mean he could easily get advice from him and such but no with my mom and I was it was fireworks constant fireworks. So so yep. Feel like as a teenager as I'm sure other people out there feel like I was misunderstood and you know, I mean every was the Seventeenth two, so there are some just like overall Society type things that affected my parenting job as parent is so yes, let's leave our kids alone when they're ten and you know have them look after their five-year-old brother and just like. That was generally, you know acceptable. But so anyway, so now when I try and cuz my daughter's sixteen and off and as I parent her I'm quite mindful of my experiences and sometimes I think I'm probably too mindful because I probably give her too much leeway, and I'm not sure. If that's a good thing so time will tell so probably do a podcast and twenty years and tell the world but I am okay so hands off. She was always the podcast the damn book that took forever home such pressure. Yeah. So so I guess branching off from that. Are there any parenting books that you would advise people to read these days like is there anything reputable out there that you would Advise if somebody's looking for a parenting book like a general philosophy of parenting type book. Yeah. I just I think parenting the ones I went for were specifically special needs a gated. They weren't sort of like an overall theory of parenting you did like that book by Howard last night, you know, I love transforming the difficult child. If you have a kid with behavior issues and you want to be able to recast those in a positive way rather than a negative way and react to them in a way of that involves positive energy rather than negative energy. That is an awesome book also in general with special needs by how can I not know Stanley Greenspan? Yes Stanley Greenspan. Thank you. That's an excellent book. And that was my Bible for quite a while when I was thrust into parenting to non baby kids with special needs. Yeah, I read that whole humongous thing and sort of lived by it. So probably anything that he writes I would recommend cuz that book was awesome. Yeah, probably your cat Catherine. Do you have anything that's that's right a lot of articles about parenting and yeah, so just read what I've written. It's all pretty much that's funny cause I've got put out there. Yeah. I don't know if there were specific ones. I remember there's like the I think it's called the No Cry sleep solution cuz I definitely had some non sleepers and I I was not into like the Ferber and the Baby Wise and all those that are like, you know, you will force your baby to succumb to your will like dead. I cannot deal but I think it's I think the No Cry sleep solution was sad. It felt much more reasonable to me. Well, so I remember phone number reading that one and feeling like it was helping it looks like so yeah, you know what, I worked at Scholastic there were some experts there that I worked with and I appreciated them a lot and I can probably find some of their stuff at at scholastic.com cuz you know, that's when I had babies and small children and these were people who were experts in in that one was a one was a child psychologist Adele brodkin was her name. She she always had good advice and you know, I since I knew her personally I felt like, you know, I just knew her as a person in addition to E. Just this expert out in the out in the world, right? So I felt like I could trust her and I could buy what she she was saying. She she was a lot of fun to work with and she was also instrumental in getting the really awesome maternity leave that I took that I got to have at Scholastic because she said, you know, like if we're company that's about early childhood education, you know, we need mothers and fathers to be able to walk spend lots of time with their brand new babies. So it anyway, oh that was a long way from them from literature from the parenting discussion. We were having but how much time you end up getting I got like eight weeks off and then I got another several weeks where I was where it was dead. Into the eight weeks was like disability type of leave and then another eight weeks of just paid time off and then another several weeks of working part time and getting paid full-time. Wow, it was nice. It was really good. Yeah. So yeah, I felt very very lucky. Yeah. No kidding. Well, I just have told my kids, you know, if you feel like you need therapy down the road because of something I did as a parent help pay for it off. So if my kids did not get the parenting that they needed I will fully subsidized their money reimburse them for P. I feel like I did a lot by Instinct and I think that that does come from what time As a kid so, you know, I think if I'm doing anything right, I probably could think my parents. Yeah, it's interesting that long, you know in our parents generation there really wasn't that much in the way of parenting books in our generation there certainly were a fair amount and they were very useful and now I feel like there's such a torrent of parenting advice that really new parents are best just shutting it off and going by its space. Yeah. I feel like we've come full circle on that phone now, they did well and it's all contradictory contradictory. I mean, I always feel like I can't recommend a particular parenting book. But if you pick up a parenting book and it says it's just the only way put it down if you pick one up and said if you do this your kid will be perfect put it down. Those are useless and more often than not books written by professionals wage. Who are not parents or who are you know, this family had this terrible problem and they brought their child to me and I did this one little thing and then everything was hunky-dory. I don't want to read that that if I can't go to you this does not help me. So those are the things you want to look out for you know, basically, I always felt that what was good to do is just read a ton of stuff. Keep what works for you and leave the rest. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, it works for your child. Yes right for your family. Yeah. Definitely. Yeah. I don't know. I I guess I don't even remember like I'm not even sure my mother even talked to her friends about parenting. That's the other thing too. I feel like we do a lot more talking about one another. And figuring out what one another is doing and like often judging them and say no I'm never going to do that. You know, I I feel like my mom didn't gain do a lot of your have a lot of conversations around parenting and so I don't think she learnt really from her friends. So that's kind of interesting. I feel like we are open about these days. So, you know, there's kind of like this natural check on our behaviors, right like as if you're at the playground and your life well, okay. I spank my Kidd, of course, you're going to have all these mom's glaring at you anything. Okay. Well, maybe I shouldn't think right now I feel like you know moms are worth more outwardly sharing. Yeah. You should just be the playground or church or something like that. And now it's all of social media. So and the response has gotten much more strong and and wide and mediate off.

Nicole Stanley Greenspan Scholastic Catherine Terry Iowa Australia Ferber Howard Instinct Adele brodkin eight weeks twenty years five-year